**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 11 02:59:56 2010 Apr 11 03:00:38 did you find what file type is it? Apr 11 03:01:29 who? me?? Apr 11 03:01:55 yeah Apr 11 03:02:21 I got no .gpe here to issue a 'file *.gpe' cmd Apr 11 03:03:50 so you downloaded and extracted that zip file and file *.gpe gave you that error? Apr 11 03:04:15 just ignore me lol, I still don't have the Nokia N900 and I'm going way ahead of myself here Apr 11 03:04:37 Just would be cool to have psx emu running at 100% out of the box with no o/c Apr 11 03:05:51 That dude ZoddT wrote some good code which allowes psx4pandora to run at 600mhz faster then 100% speed. So I thought why can't it be run on N900 since same hardware or nearly identical Apr 11 03:06:35 <- got over excited. Apr 11 03:09:20 damn it i was looking at the wrong device this whole time Apr 11 03:10:21 that repo release was not for linux at all thats why i was so confused Apr 11 03:11:25 Brilliant article: http://www.macworld.com/article/150529/2010/04/macalope_flash.html Apr 11 03:12:04 dsster: please stop talking to yourself :P Apr 11 03:12:13 kk Apr 11 03:23:26 dsster: .gpe files are games for GP2X Apr 11 03:23:33 dsster: google would've told you that Apr 11 03:23:47 * GeneralAntilles finds the device really underwhelming. Apr 11 03:23:57 what device? Apr 11 03:23:58 I think it's crippled from the fact that every little goddamn thing has to be monetized. Apr 11 03:24:01 iPad Apr 11 03:24:14 I dunno, I think it's fun Apr 11 03:24:28 GeneralAntilles: I just wish the haters would get over it and start talking about other stuff already Apr 11 03:24:43 i like hardware Apr 11 03:24:55 ui is quite nice as well Apr 11 03:25:01 crashanddie, I've been quite bored with it. Apr 11 03:25:09 but os sucks a lot Apr 11 03:25:12 Trying to find interesting software, but it's all very expensive Apr 11 03:25:15 No multitasking is a bear Apr 11 03:25:23 GeneralAntilles: don't misunderstand me, I don't mind a good, well constructed argument explaining why the iPad is bad (the typography article is excellent in that way), but all the threads that just say "HAHA, IT SUCKS" is getting old. Apr 11 03:25:25 and apple policy Apr 11 03:26:05 i mean - iphone 3g or 3gs running maemo - that would be almost perfect phone Apr 11 03:26:18 erm, no Apr 11 03:26:22 + maybe memory card support Apr 11 03:26:24 because Maemo sucks as a phone software Apr 11 03:26:40 it makes phone calls Apr 11 03:26:41 there's a bunch of things it can't do, and Nokia isn't throwing enough devs at it Apr 11 03:26:45 Ugh Apr 11 03:26:52 The resolution on the iPhone sucks Apr 11 03:26:55 Capacitive sucks. Apr 11 03:26:57 No thanks. Apr 11 03:27:08 No real keyboard... Apr 11 03:27:19 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://dashjr.org/maps/wifi/2009-20100410a.km :) Apr 11 03:27:22 on the other hand, it has ringtones per contact Apr 11 03:27:24 (warning: use Chrome or Firefox) Apr 11 03:27:58 pwnguin: indeed, and real call log, and support for conferences, and support for hold calls, and a responsive UI... Apr 11 03:28:17 luke-jr: wardriving? Apr 11 03:28:31 pwnguin, because it's a phone Apr 11 03:28:40 luke-jr: works fine on safari Apr 11 03:28:45 GeneralAntilles: instead of what? a good phone? Apr 11 03:28:46 pwnguin, the N900 is many other things before it's a phone. Apr 11 03:29:02 GeneralAntilles: ok, well the phoen app sucks Apr 11 03:29:05 pwnguin, it's not a good phone Apr 11 03:29:09 because it's a mobile computer with phone functionality. Apr 11 03:29:12 It's not a smartphone. Apr 11 03:29:19 it's a stupidphone Apr 11 03:29:19 No matter how much people want to pretend it is. Apr 11 03:29:22 this is a tired and stupid argument Apr 11 03:29:29 pwnguin: agreed Apr 11 03:29:33 crashanddie: fine, sure, I imagine slow tho Apr 11 03:29:39 luke-jr: not really Apr 11 03:29:40 Successfully uploaded packages. Apr 11 03:29:44 microlith: I just avoid the same route twice Apr 11 03:29:49 i've just uploaded chromium Apr 11 03:29:52 pwnguin, meh, buy the right device for your requirements. Apr 11 03:29:52 I don't understand? All I need the phone part for is making phone calls? How is it not a good phone? Apr 11 03:29:55 hopefully it's going to build Apr 11 03:30:00 pwnguin, if you need a strong phone, don't buy the N900. Apr 11 03:30:06 dsster, same here. Apr 11 03:30:16 GeneralAntilles: nothing about the hardware stopping it from being a good phone Apr 11 03:30:18 * GeneralAntilles gets good reception, speaker-phone is loud and clear. Apr 11 03:30:31 dsster: because you don't have the same requirements as everyone else? Apr 11 03:31:04 where i can see my build progress? Apr 11 03:31:05 crashanddie, same applies to everybody else. Apr 11 03:31:46 dsster: I spend my days in phone conferences, my blackberry (well, when I had one) supports the ability to pre-program a calendar item as a phone conference, with the phone number and conference code. As soon as the time comes, the phone warns me there's a meeting, and I can click on "Dial", and 5 seconds later I'm in the conference Apr 11 03:32:17 This is not a patended feature, it's not a difficult feature to implement -- if the calendar was appropriately built, which it isn't. Apr 11 03:32:37 i'd just be happy to have caldav Apr 11 03:33:00 Well, given limited resources, etc. . . . Apr 11 03:33:11 You can't expand the security of the device because those parts are closed source, you can't better the phone app of the device, because that's closed source, you can't better the mail/exchange part of the device, because it's closed source Apr 11 03:33:13 So just use a calender event and write a script to make a loud noise and dial into the conference 1 second before it starts Apr 11 03:33:16 Sure, there are hundreds of little features you're welcome to point out which could make this or that better Apr 11 03:33:20 im surprised caldav hasn't been hacked in given the evolution datastore Apr 11 03:33:23 But those features add up to time requirements. Apr 11 03:33:40 crashanddie, mail is open. Apr 11 03:33:40 GeneralAntilles: I do realise that, trust me, I do Apr 11 03:33:45 GeneralAntilles: MFE? Apr 11 03:33:50 Is closed Apr 11 03:34:04 GeneralAntilles: the places where Nokia intentionally made it easy to diversify seem to have fantastic community response Apr 11 03:34:24 Honestly, I would've spent hours hacking at the source code had I been given the chance Apr 11 03:34:36 three's all kinds of telepathy plugins Apr 11 03:34:41 there is Apr 11 03:34:55 All, notably, from Nokia or Nokia contractors. Apr 11 03:34:58 there's a couple Sharing plugins i use Apr 11 03:35:55 crashanddie, I just can't believe you can't adjust the margins in any of the book readers. Apr 11 03:36:07 What's the point of having a big, pretty screen if you can only use 75% of it? Apr 11 03:36:14 GeneralAntilles: have you read the typography article? Apr 11 03:36:26 pwnguin: Nokia didn't make Telepathy Apr 11 03:36:43 http://fontfeed.com/archives/ipad-typography Apr 11 03:37:15 GeneralAntilles: ^ Apr 11 03:37:59 mhm Apr 11 03:38:11 fail Apr 11 03:40:41 crashanddie, yeah Apr 11 03:41:34 time for lunch, 'later Apr 11 03:41:52 I like to differentiate between blasting Nokia for dedicating insufficient resources to the platform that will save them as a company in the long term and to blasting Maemo Devices for doing what they could with what they had Apr 11 03:42:06 Which is why I usually argue in these discussions. Apr 11 03:42:38 i don't think that smartphones like n900 are that important for them Apr 11 03:42:45 most of people have simpler phones Apr 11 03:43:06 and they did smartest move they could Apr 11 03:43:08 use linux Apr 11 03:43:26 N900 isn't a smartphone Apr 11 03:43:32 tablet Apr 11 03:43:40 but the point is Apr 11 03:43:47 any recent news on the IS01? Apr 11 03:43:55 that there is a lot of linux developers Apr 11 03:44:21 and lot of linux apps already Apr 11 03:44:26 it's just about porting them Apr 11 03:44:41 just porting apps won't get people to use them Apr 11 03:44:55 at least, not if you're thinking beyond the immediate maemo community Apr 11 03:44:57 well, porting apps to a new UI aint easy. but having kajillion libraries that build helps Apr 11 03:45:02 * luke-jr notes most apps are not usable on N8x0 at least Apr 11 03:45:13 kajillion? Apr 11 03:45:40 most people want apps designed for a smartphone ;) Apr 11 03:45:41 halfway between a billion and a jigawatt Apr 11 03:45:52 ... Apr 11 03:46:01 lol Apr 11 03:46:03 gigawatt includes a unit Apr 11 03:46:20 So back to the future? Apr 11 03:46:20 luke-jr: it's still simpler to teach linux developer how to make smartphone ui Apr 11 03:46:35 jacekowski: sure; but give me enough RAM and I can just run KDE 4.4 :P Apr 11 03:46:42 luke-jr: than what iphone did, which was completly new platform running only on mac Apr 11 03:46:54 mhm Apr 11 03:46:55 kde 2 Apr 11 03:47:04 or kde 3.x should work Apr 11 03:47:06 not interested Apr 11 03:47:16 they're both ancient and unmaintained Apr 11 03:47:20 i built gentoo on 800Mhz duron with 256M ram Apr 11 03:47:31 is it known why N900's scrolling is laggy? Apr 11 03:47:33 maemo libraries are ancient as well Apr 11 03:47:35 I run Gentoo on my N810 with however MHz it has and 128 MB RAM Apr 11 03:47:41 KDE does not run too happy :( Apr 11 03:47:55 why would you run kde? o.O Apr 11 03:47:59 nothing better Apr 11 03:48:04 gnome i would understand.. Apr 11 03:48:10 GNOME is awful Apr 11 03:48:16 no it's not :( Apr 11 03:48:29 and when KDE barely runs, GNOME would no doubt fail to be even remotely useful Apr 11 03:48:34 GNOME is terribly bloated and terribly UI Apr 11 03:48:37 etc Apr 11 03:48:43 question regarding updating system libraries - is it very bad if i would upgrade libexpat? Apr 11 03:49:02 twm FTW! Apr 11 03:49:20 njsf: I actually have twm installed just for that reason :P Apr 11 03:49:31 twm + arora is quite bearable Apr 11 03:49:49 fsck kde4.4 Apr 11 03:50:01 broken crap Apr 11 03:50:24 O.o Apr 11 03:50:26 4.3 works fine here Apr 11 03:50:32 did 4.4 break much? Apr 11 03:50:32 OMG Apr 11 03:51:09 4.0 was useless Apr 11 03:51:09 dunno 4.3.1 here, FFS Apr 11 03:51:20 jacekowski: I agree Apr 11 03:51:24 I switched with 4.1 IIRC Apr 11 03:51:27 maybe 4.2 Apr 11 03:51:30 amarok 2.0 is useless Apr 11 03:51:37 at least 4.2 I grabbed early Apr 11 03:51:39 jacekowski++ Apr 11 03:51:45 4.3.1 still << KDE3 Apr 11 03:51:48 I dumped Amarok crap for mplayer -playlist Apr 11 03:51:50 pretty much kde 4 and amarok 2 caused me to just fuck linux and go back to windows Apr 11 03:52:12 amarok 1.4 was the best player i've had Apr 11 03:52:41 Amarok 1.4 was tolerable IMO, but far from sane Apr 11 03:52:48 I kinda miss XMMS Apr 11 03:52:52 whole KDE4 is a fsckng metoo-redmond-epigone Apr 11 03:53:03 and a can of worms Apr 11 03:53:16 KDE 4's biggest problem right now IMO is the bloat and reinventing things Apr 11 03:53:26 yesss Apr 11 03:53:32 my build is just uploading to fail again Apr 11 03:53:32 if it stuck to Qt4, it'd be nice Apr 11 03:54:18 on point #50 and 100th segfault I stopped listing what broke from 3->4 Apr 11 03:55:18 and still they claim KDE4 is 'ready for prime time' -HAAH !! Apr 11 03:56:10 KDE 4.3 is pretty stable for me Apr 11 03:56:14 other than Konq and retarded websites Apr 11 03:56:29 KMail has one easily reproduced crash, but it doesn't bother me enough to report it Apr 11 03:56:43 pretty stable is quite something different than KDE4 Apr 11 03:57:08 more annoying than those 2 crash situations is KWin locking my keyboard -.- Apr 11 03:57:21 every few days I have to Ctrl-Alt-F2 and restart kwin Apr 11 03:57:24 to get my kb back Apr 11 03:58:47 How does on unfullscreen pidign? Apr 11 03:59:04 *one * pidgin Apr 11 04:00:49 I have stable KDE4 on all the three machines I have installed, the thing that annoys me most is the lack of multi X support Apr 11 04:01:38 yeahyeah, KDE4 for sure is super stable - as long as you don't touch it Apr 11 04:02:14 DocScrutinizer; don't use the 4.0, use at least 4.4 Apr 11 04:02:57 wow you guys are still on about that Apr 11 04:03:16 lol Apr 11 04:03:35 it all comes down to prefrence really Apr 11 04:03:47 I'd happily use 3.5 or what it was, if only they supported it any further Apr 11 04:04:59 preference - yeah. I prefer a system to *work* with, that doesn't segfault on random bits every second day Apr 11 04:05:43 I would have used gnome, but for some reason they released a crappy sequel, so I switched to KDE3, KDE4 ain't what I really want, too much eye candy, but ctwm is a bit too much work to keep the menus up to date Apr 11 04:05:53 Just remove the junk features and you will be left with a stable core nothing fancy dm Apr 11 04:06:42 dsster; then you have just console left if you do that on kde4 :P Apr 11 04:06:55 lol Apr 11 04:07:37 xcde is my 2nd fav. after gnome Apr 11 04:08:19 I don't like those gtk2 based, they seem to make things so user unfriendly using gtk2 Apr 11 04:08:24 * DocScrutinizer looks at the graybluish and gray knetworkmanager icon on gray background, mumbles swearwords about eyecandy and idiots using black+white pastell scheme on a color screen, and starts to ponder treating the whole laptop in microwave oven Apr 11 04:08:47 i mean xfce* Apr 11 04:09:41 DocScrutinizer; ctwm maybe something for you, it's rock stable and no fancy stuff Apr 11 04:10:08 * Trizt should be sleeping at least 3h longer Apr 11 04:10:31 http://gitorious.org/wifi-mapgen fwiw Apr 11 04:11:11 fuck, I tailored and tweaked kde to my needs for some 10 years now. KDE4 nuked most of that. I don't see how switching to something still more different would reduce my bloodpressure Apr 11 04:12:14 DocScrutinizer; next time, when they release KDE5, then you don't have to change anything on ctwm, you can even get my configurations from 94 which I used at university Apr 11 04:17:15 nah, I probably should use a 6 weeks kubuntu period to get used to this way of errr working?, then switch to win7 and get a good book with advice like "how to rename 150 files on a graphical desktop: make sure your mouse is lokated in a convenient position, get a large can of tea (no coffee!)..." Apr 11 04:18:00 that sucks dude Apr 11 04:18:23 DocScrutinizer; you can run kde4 on that win7 Apr 11 04:18:36 YEAH EVEN BETTER Apr 11 04:18:55 lol Apr 11 04:20:24 windows 7 isn't awful to look at, but it fails to run any of my more recent code. Apr 11 04:21:06 you souldn't compile them gainst glibc ;) Apr 11 04:23:19 or code new features for the mutter window manager Apr 11 04:25:40 (mutter's like metacity but without the suck) Apr 11 04:27:49 is there any place where i can see current output of autobuilder? Apr 11 04:29:32 jacekowski: re something you said earlier: Adopting Linux isn't necessarily a good thing. The porting effort to go from a full-blown Desktop OS to a mobile/tablet OS is severe Apr 11 04:29:59 jacekowski: most applications needs a full rewrite because they are so unoptimised for the CPU, also, the input and interface needs to be re-thought and rebuilt from scratch Apr 11 04:30:47 that's just ui Apr 11 04:30:56 libraries can be reused Apr 11 04:31:02 barely Apr 11 04:31:12 but then again, general libraries are easy to port Apr 11 04:31:18 crashanddie: for me, it's a good thing, since I *want* a full blown desktop OS on my mobile :) Apr 11 04:31:37 i don't like that waiting Apr 11 04:31:38 luke-jr: yeah, but you don't have a full keyboard and mouse Apr 11 04:31:49 crashanddie: that's Nokia's fault :( Apr 11 04:31:54 but as it's working for 10 minutes now Apr 11 04:32:02 it doesn't look like it's going to fail Apr 11 04:32:13 my C760 had a full-ish keyboard Apr 11 04:36:00 Festival de Woodstock 2010 será realizado no Brasil na Fazenda Marda em Itu (100 km de São Paulo). Os dias de show serão 7, 8 e 9 de outubro. Apr 11 04:42:12 i just don't understand one thing Apr 11 04:42:17 http://abh-news.com/nokia-n900-ready-for-google-chrome-transfer-2407.html Apr 11 04:42:23 on every single page they mention Apr 11 04:42:28 something similiar Apr 11 04:42:40 Nokia N900, the tiny pocket computer can port the Debian 32-bit Apr 11 04:42:46 wtf? Apr 11 04:44:25 jacekowski: looks like it went through google translate a couple times Apr 11 04:45:17 yeah, but where did original debian 32 bit came from? Apr 11 04:45:44 dunno, I suspect they're thinking you ported some debian package of chromium? Apr 11 04:48:50 well, there isn't any official debian package for starters Apr 11 04:53:15 i hate waiting Apr 11 04:53:54 that builder should have like bazyllion core bazyllion gigahertz cpu to build these packages Apr 11 04:56:18 overclock the n900 then ;) Apr 11 05:03:23 it's not building on my phone Apr 11 05:03:24 speaking of o/c how many reports of people frying so far? Apr 11 05:03:31 it's building on maemo builder Apr 11 05:03:57 and at the moment it's building for 40 minutes Apr 11 05:04:05 dsster: none yet I believe, mostly people are seeing data corruption and having to reflash Apr 11 05:04:07 and qt was building there for 20 minutes Apr 11 05:04:28 nobody would admit to it Apr 11 05:04:41 oh excellent :) Apr 11 05:04:57 well, data corruption isn't excellent :P Apr 11 05:06:01 thats why you store data on external flash :) Apr 11 05:06:26 which doesn't save you when your root partition corrupts itself Apr 11 05:06:44 the reasons for overclocking remain defeated Apr 11 05:07:04 depends, you could use root on internal memory and /home on sdhc card Apr 11 05:07:25 well, /home is already on the eMMC Apr 11 05:07:43 they're seeing corruption in the UBIFS partition Apr 11 05:08:47 ah so it would affect external memory as well then? Apr 11 05:09:02 potentially Apr 11 05:09:03 that sucks, but gotta keep backups then Apr 11 05:09:13 the better thing is to not push the processor beyond spec :) Apr 11 05:09:28 haha thats just asking to much :) Apr 11 05:09:38 overclocking is the only thing I've seen that has been noted by the nokia guys as a warranty-killer Apr 11 05:09:44 and they warned about it last september Apr 11 05:10:58 it kills only OC faults related warrant Apr 11 05:11:00 y* Apr 11 05:12:32 * DocScrutinizer really likes to kick every now end then, reeeeaaly..... uh, hold me Apr 11 05:12:42 a 800mhz o/c shouldn't be too bad.. i've heard people capping 1k ghz Apr 11 05:12:58 now 1k i agree is overboard Apr 11 05:14:08 * DocScrutinizer spams all OC-fanbois with 1599 registry optimizers Apr 11 05:14:29 * DocScrutinizer escalates to ramdoubler Apr 11 05:14:48 i'm thinking about playing around with cpu frequency as well Apr 11 05:14:49 It's not that scarry to overclock. if you live in a hot and humid enviornment should stay away from any overclocking Apr 11 05:15:02 but in both direction Apr 11 05:15:12 * b-man passes out... 1:14am here :P Apr 11 05:15:21 1,15 here Apr 11 05:15:21 bleeter: 6:15 here Apr 11 05:15:22 luke-jr, in case you're wondering, there's a better way Apr 11 05:15:27 luke-jr, -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp Apr 11 05:15:33 WAAAAAH. dsster shut up please. Apr 11 05:15:35 ^ best of all worlds Apr 11 05:15:50 i'm not going to sleep before my build finishes Apr 11 05:15:54 which might be another 2h Apr 11 05:16:07 well 1h now Apr 11 05:16:28 now how can I make those switches default :| Apr 11 05:16:48 /etc/make.conf in gentoo Apr 11 05:16:51 Lira? Apr 11 05:17:06 luke-jr, GCC switches for floats Apr 11 05:17:29 ... Apr 11 05:17:32 * RST38h moos evilly Apr 11 05:17:39 lol, Gentoo is fun :) Apr 11 05:18:24 luke-jr, you asked it from me, no? Apr 11 05:18:26 no? Apr 11 05:18:34 dsster: I heard when you place your N900 into a plastic bag, then fill that bag with water and freeze it to -41°C, and then you wear a tinfoil hat, you can even OC to 2.2GHz Apr 11 05:18:36 somebody has gentoo on his n900 Apr 11 05:18:39 oh shi- it was lcuk Apr 11 05:18:43 lol Apr 11 05:18:50 luke-jr, I'm sorry; confused you both! Apr 11 05:19:05 DocScrutinizer: test it out and let me know how it goes for ya ;) Apr 11 05:19:17 lcuk, ahem - -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp Apr 11 05:19:25 DocScrutinizer: does it only work on -41? Apr 11 05:19:40 jacekowski: afaik yes Apr 11 05:20:29 dsster: nah, clearly with all your knowledge about relation between overclocking and ambient humidity you are the better expert for these OC wizardies Apr 11 05:20:48 X-Fade: builder is too slow for me Apr 11 05:21:25 dsster: please enlighten me - is it because the CPU can't sweat that effectively when it's more humid? Apr 11 05:21:35 i'm no expert, just a common hardware enthusiast Apr 11 05:22:58 humidity makes condensation worse then it already it, that's all Apr 11 05:23:43 aaahhyaeah, condensation when it's hot Apr 11 05:23:54 makes a lot of sense Apr 11 05:24:07 * b-man is off to bed.... c ya guys :) Apr 11 05:24:07 i can't recall the correct term, but you get my point Apr 11 05:24:20 but honestly those OCers always seem to know exactly what to do Apr 11 05:25:23 I got the point - you got no clue at all Apr 11 05:25:28 humidity is bad for electronics in general, combine that with heat and overclocking is a bad idea Apr 11 05:25:58 a yes. please just take it elsewhere Apr 11 05:26:02 just fuck off, if you need to do research please go ahead and don't bother me with your questions Apr 11 05:26:04 bullshit Apr 11 05:26:16 humidity is a problem when is cold Apr 11 05:26:29 not only when it's cold Apr 11 05:26:31 which is what happens when you do extreme overclocking Apr 11 05:26:32 when hot too Apr 11 05:26:43 because you do extreme cooling at the same time Apr 11 05:26:49 humidity = corrosion in any temperature Apr 11 05:27:09 dsster: you've got no fucking clue what are you talking about Apr 11 05:27:31 it's basic stuff Apr 11 05:27:36 common knowledge Apr 11 05:27:43 copper doesn't corode Apr 11 05:28:09 I'm ready... Apr 11 05:28:15 any requests? Apr 11 05:28:24 /kick DocScrutinizer Apr 11 05:28:40 /mode +b DocScrutinizer!*@*.* Apr 11 05:29:28 anything else? Apr 11 05:29:37 /mode +o jacekowski Apr 11 05:29:40 o_O Apr 11 05:29:57 now i'm your new god Apr 11 05:30:07 * crashanddie bows before jacekowski Apr 11 05:30:15 did anyone do OpenVG developement or have demos? Apr 11 05:30:23 on the N900, that is Apr 11 05:31:21 i don't think it's supported on n900 Apr 11 05:31:32 jacekowski, omap supports it Apr 11 05:31:49 is there a driver for it? Apr 11 05:32:03 no clue Apr 11 05:32:23 that can be easily checked Apr 11 05:32:40 but i'm to tired Apr 11 05:32:48 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Microprocessor Apr 11 05:32:56 # Integrated POWERVR SGXâ„¢ graphics core with OpenGL ES® 2.0 and OpenVGâ„¢, support. Apr 11 05:33:02 LiraNuna: nothing about software side of it Apr 11 05:33:11 just sayin' it's capable Apr 11 05:33:32 awesome, that's been refreshing Apr 11 05:33:59 has anyone tried rtorrent on the n900? Apr 11 05:34:10 dsster, Transmission works REALLY good Apr 11 05:34:20 and it's almost fully hildonized Apr 11 05:34:23 really good Apr 11 05:34:23 that would be easy to port Apr 11 05:34:29 but there is one problem with rtorrent Apr 11 05:34:32 which is memory usage Apr 11 05:35:00 as every connection uses chunk size + a bit of memory Apr 11 05:35:13 and chunks are ussualy about 2M Apr 11 05:35:22 or more Apr 11 05:35:25 so Transmission does not have this issue? Apr 11 05:35:35 no Apr 11 05:35:37 Transmission works quite well Apr 11 05:35:42 it's been designed differently Apr 11 05:35:47 I downloaded a lot of stuff over 3G Apr 11 05:35:51 ok, sounds great Apr 11 05:35:53 quite fast as well Apr 11 05:36:03 rtorrent can easily handle 1Gbit on slow cpu Apr 11 05:36:09 t-mo doesn't have o problem with that, LiraNuna ? Apr 11 05:36:21 sheepbat, they say, "Unlimited Internet" Apr 11 05:36:22 as long as there is enough ram and disk can take that amount of I/O Apr 11 05:36:30 we'll see how "Unlimited" that is :) Apr 11 05:36:36 haha Apr 11 05:36:37 10 GiB Apr 11 05:36:40 it's somewhere in the contract Apr 11 05:36:52 transmission would kill anything with 30-40Mbit.s Apr 11 05:37:02 sheepbat, I don't think I downloaded that much Apr 11 05:37:10 ahhh.. okay Apr 11 05:37:14 which plan do you have? Apr 11 05:37:17 LiraNuna: have your tried sip on tmobile? Apr 11 05:37:24 I'm thinking about getting the PDA internet-only plan Apr 11 05:37:25 sheepbat, "Unlimited Internet" Apr 11 05:37:32 there's more than one unlimited internet plan Apr 11 05:37:32 dsster, no, I don't have a sip account I can use Apr 11 05:37:47 there's a very cheap one intended for use with featurephones Apr 11 05:37:49 sheepbat, uh, the 69$/mo one Apr 11 05:37:56 that's a lot Apr 11 05:38:01 unlimited everything Apr 11 05:38:06 does that come with.. ahh, okay Apr 11 05:38:06 just make a free one using gvoice + sipgate + sipsorcery free incoming + outgoing Apr 11 05:38:15 i have unlimited internet with 600 minutes and texts Apr 11 05:38:15 they say unlimited Apr 11 05:38:20 for £25 Apr 11 05:38:27 I don't use mine as a phone much, so I'd probably save a bunch of money just paying for when I use voice/text Apr 11 05:38:30 !g 25 gbp in usd Apr 11 05:38:30 24mo contract with a phone Apr 11 05:38:42 no googlebot in here? Apr 11 05:39:03 25 British pounds = 38.4275 U.S. dollars Apr 11 05:39:05 38 Apr 11 05:39:19 and that includes n900 Apr 11 05:39:45 googlebot? nah Apr 11 05:39:45 oh wow Apr 11 05:39:46 and now they are doing even cheaper contracts Apr 11 05:40:00 ~google googlebot Apr 11 05:40:10 not enabled Apr 11 05:40:12 jacekowski, subsidized? Apr 11 05:40:33 jacekowski, I've heard UK being gimped atm on the N900 Apr 11 05:40:38 on something Apr 11 05:40:43 gimped? Apr 11 05:40:54 ~convert 25 BP to USD Apr 11 05:40:56 25 BP cannot be converted to USD: Unknown unit 'BP' Apr 11 05:41:25 cheapest tarrif is £15/mo for 24 months + £137 ( for n900 tarrif with unlimited internet ) Apr 11 05:41:36 ~convert 25 GBP to USD Apr 11 05:41:38 25 GBP is approximately 50.3925 USD Apr 11 05:41:52 the bot's a little outdated, it seems Apr 11 05:42:15 i wish it wouldn't Apr 11 05:42:24 around $38 Apr 11 05:42:34 GBP* Apr 11 05:42:37 i prefer 1gbp == 2usd exchange rate Apr 11 05:43:03 hah not yet Apr 11 05:43:12 I prefered it when we had 3 dollars to the pound Apr 11 05:43:16 (aussie dollar) Apr 11 05:43:24 I would've been feckin rich by now. Apr 11 05:43:55 there used to be times when it was close to 1gbp == 3 usd Apr 11 05:44:37 you do realize it's *good* for the UK to have a weak pound, right? Apr 11 05:44:43 well.. it can be, at least Apr 11 05:44:55 sort of Apr 11 05:45:07 it means people buy british Apr 11 05:45:32 but that means as well that it costs more to go abroad Apr 11 05:45:40 * DocScrutinizer burps Apr 11 05:45:42 true Apr 11 05:45:56 it means brits have to buy brit too Apr 11 05:45:56 and it means anything that has to be bought abroad is expensive Apr 11 05:46:16 it's good thing for country that's absolutely self sufficient Apr 11 05:46:28 like china Apr 11 05:46:33 yes Apr 11 05:46:44 which is why they intentionally lower the value of their currency Apr 11 05:47:37 anyone know if they will port flashplayer 10 to arm/n900? Apr 11 05:47:45 but i don't think that's very good thing for UK Apr 11 05:48:01 Trizt: maybe Apr 11 05:49:05 http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200811/111708ARMAdobeFlash.html Apr 11 05:49:14 they will Apr 11 05:49:32 question is when Apr 11 05:49:41 I hope that not all sites will block old flashplayers before they are finished, adobe been quite slow IMHO Apr 11 05:50:41 I'd hope all sites will block *all* versions of flash eventually Apr 11 05:51:38 DocScrutinizer; yes, but still there are too many idiot "web builders" who thinks flash is good Apr 11 05:51:52 hmm yes Apr 11 05:52:41 "this site is optimized for MS-Explorer 5.0" Apr 11 05:52:48 I say we should remove flash from the N900 as a standard package Apr 11 05:53:11 DocScrutinizer; :) Apr 11 05:53:12 flash is good Apr 11 05:53:19 or rather, I have a few apps I'm developping now (waiting for pr1.2, to have pyside and qt 4.6), I'm going to make them conflict with flash Apr 11 05:53:25 there is nothing better to make all these fancy ads on web pages Apr 11 05:53:51 * microlith wonders why fedora doesn't set up sudo right Apr 11 05:54:18 how is flash on the n900? I've seen different videos, some are laggy and some are just great Apr 11 05:54:44 dsster; I think it's lagish Apr 11 05:55:20 dsster; but what do you expect from adobe Apr 11 05:55:45 :( Apr 11 05:55:50 * microlith boggles at fedora Apr 11 05:55:52 It's a bit laggy, but usable anyway Apr 11 05:56:43 dsster: flash on linux always had performance issues Apr 11 05:56:47 microlith; why do you use a developing/testing distro? Apr 11 05:57:04 I'd rather not use RHEL Apr 11 05:57:14 dsster: so i'm surprised by how well it's working compared to how it was working year ago on linux Apr 11 05:57:29 microlith; centos? or use something better like Gentoo ;) Apr 11 05:57:37 jacekowski: agreed. I was suprised it worked so well from the videos i saw Apr 11 05:57:43 sorry, I got over gentoo five years ago Apr 11 05:57:54 omfg Apr 11 05:58:01 i'm fucking stupid Apr 11 05:58:07 I'm impressed though, fedora 12 completely doesn't work right in virtualbox Apr 11 05:58:10 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Apr 11 05:58:21 yeah gentoo native ftw, instead of maemo ;-P Apr 11 05:58:53 dhcp doesn't work for some reason Apr 11 05:59:19 "I'll call you once a week, dear. The remaining time my gentoo is building the weekly snapshot" Apr 11 06:00:18 microlith; last ok from redhat was RH7.3. At work we dropped Fedora in favour for ubuntu (personally I dislike ubuntu) Apr 11 06:00:27 heh Apr 11 06:00:32 I use ubuntu all over Apr 11 06:00:58 jacekowski: that's what you where waiting for? Apr 11 06:01:10 in fact the issues I'm having now in fedora are largely why I backed away from redhat a while ago Apr 11 06:01:37 * Trizt nods Apr 11 06:01:49 line 1: cd: obj-arm-linux-gnueabi: No such file or directory Apr 11 06:02:13 * microlith tries a different adaptor type Apr 11 06:02:49 dsster: nah i was waiting for OK Apr 11 06:03:13 dsster: but it failed because i left out something that shouldn't be there Apr 11 06:03:22 but chrome binary was built correctly Apr 11 06:04:45 ah then there is hope yet Apr 11 06:05:38 the problem is that it will have to rebuild it again Apr 11 06:05:49 whole 1h 40 minutes of building Apr 11 06:06:06 sounds like fun Apr 11 06:06:11 :/ Apr 11 06:06:12 moin Apr 11 06:06:19 morjes Apr 11 06:08:29 maybe less if it's using ccache Apr 11 06:09:08 UK Political leader on radio: "Did you know that 54% of 14 year olds have had unprotected sex??" "Erhm, sir, it's actually 5.4%" "Oh, ok, BUT STILL! That's enormous" Apr 11 06:09:36 it is Apr 11 06:09:54 Not really Apr 11 06:10:01 nvm Apr 11 06:10:06 i've read it incorrectly Apr 11 06:10:28 but I just love how he clings onto his initial argument, even though the base premise is completely false... By an order of 10 xD Apr 11 06:10:31 crashanddie; maybe the politician had unprotected sex with 54% of all the 14 years olds he bangs Apr 11 06:11:05 Trizt: Erhm, this is the UK, not alabama Apr 11 06:11:25 haha Apr 11 06:11:34 * Trizt tries to picture the difference ;) Apr 11 06:12:41 I like my woman fully developed Apr 11 06:12:56 * DocScrutinizer seems to discover relations between foeca and chrome - both have content hardcoded. Apr 11 06:13:37 DocScrutinizer; thats why chromium seems to be fast as they already compiled half the internet into it? ;) Apr 11 06:13:48 yep Apr 11 06:14:03 crashanddie; oh, they speak Spanish in alabama? Apr 11 06:14:07 foeca? Apr 11 06:14:41 Trizt: eh? Apr 11 06:14:49 and when you click a new link, it >>the problem is that it will have to rebuild it again whole 1h 40 minutes of building Apr 11 06:14:57 foreca Apr 11 06:15:33 next step will be getting rid of expat out of it Apr 11 06:15:34 crashanddie; was trying to figure out where uk and alabama differs from eachother Apr 11 06:15:45 but that would require new expat in maemo Apr 11 06:15:55 but that can be worked around Apr 11 06:16:33 Heippa konttori Apr 11 06:16:56 Trizt: IQ, art, humour, spelling, pronounciation, film quality, tv quality, we have race car pilots who know how to turn right, as well as left, and we play real sports Apr 11 06:17:13 Trizt: now, unless you want to get silenced, I suggest you don't reply Apr 11 06:17:34 crashanddie; and your fotball is round as a ball should be? Apr 11 06:19:30 no America football is completely different Apr 11 06:20:00 yeeha, football the third sequel Apr 11 06:20:03 you mean rugby for wimps? Apr 11 06:21:12 now who's going to utter 'soccer' Apr 11 06:22:26 oh is that wht you call football in the uk? Apr 11 06:22:49 swamp football, the sport for men Apr 11 06:24:38 I just love how tiger woods had to go to a "sex addicts anonymous" meeting Apr 11 06:25:01 Though I'm not sure the best way to treat sex addicts is to put them in a room with a bunch of other sex addicts Apr 11 06:25:09 is it anonymous when you have the world press running after him? Apr 11 06:25:21 crashhanddie, "anonymous". Right. Apr 11 06:25:31 konttori: SpeedEvil_ had a great idea about internet assisted 2G<->3G handover Apr 11 06:25:54 really, that's akin to going to over-eaters anonymous, and finding out that all the other people are cakes Apr 11 06:27:06 I don't think that guy is a sex addict at all. Simply sometimes when we have one woman for too long you want to try another one.. it's completely normal. but these days everyone needs treatment for every little thing Apr 11 06:28:19 anyone see this behavior - power off charger but leave it plugged in the N900. The battery bar animation continues even though there is no power going in and the screen stays active because it still thinkss it is charging? Apr 11 06:28:24 dsster; now you need treatment against your anti treatment feelings Apr 11 06:28:54 hmm, somehow my toolchain makes huge binaries Apr 11 06:29:04 ds3; think I have had something like that Apr 11 06:29:25 Trizt: any work around? Apr 11 06:29:39 don't unplug the charger Apr 11 06:29:59 ds3: i just saw the same Apr 11 06:30:00 don't unpower the charger Apr 11 06:30:03 Will being connected to a vpn (openvpn) drain your battery faster? Apr 11 06:30:06 i'm trying to compile flite for maemo N810 in sbox. i want to change the audio driver generated by ./configure to the one used on the device. the contents of config/config file are as follows AUDIODRIVER = alsa Apr 11 06:30:07 AUDIODEFS = -DCST_AUDIO_ALSA Apr 11 06:30:07 AUDIOLIBS = -lasound Apr 11 06:30:07 not valid; I am charging in the car from a switched 12V outlet Apr 11 06:30:08 ds3: green light on Apr 11 06:30:28 Stskeeps: I disabled the green light but have the keep screen on while charging enabled Apr 11 06:30:41 have you guys heard of george carlin? for those that haven't youtube him :) my favorite comedian *interesting topic Apr 11 06:30:42 ds3: :nod: Apr 11 06:30:53 ds3; manually turn the screen off? Apr 11 06:31:36 Trizt: if I remember... this is in a car, mobile use Apr 11 06:31:54 * Trizt nods, wait and see if there any change in pr1.2 Apr 11 06:31:59 sigh Apr 11 06:32:20 ds3: just had problem with normal charger as well, so Apr 11 06:32:26 a seperate charge port would probally have preventing this Apr 11 06:32:50 Stskeeps: I think my 12V charger is setup the same way as a wall charger Apr 11 06:33:16 it is a bug though Apr 11 06:33:38 ds3: add a normal hub, powered from your charger to upstream port, and connect one of the downstream ports with a normal cable to N900 Apr 11 06:33:47 oo. I had forgotten I've got admin rights on the wiki. Apr 11 06:33:51 oh well. One less spammer Apr 11 06:33:57 Docscrutinizer: doesn't that limit charge to 500mA? Apr 11 06:34:04 yes Apr 11 06:34:32 impact is much lower than you might expect, though Apr 11 06:34:36 has anyone seen the phone module crash under high load? i.e. CPU pegged for a while then it acts as if there is no coverage at all Apr 11 06:35:10 DocScrutinizer: in my case, it is quite noticeable as I have a proper USB connection available and that doesn't really keep up Apr 11 06:35:29 errm Apr 11 06:36:04 maybe disable the 'keep on while charging' option Apr 11 06:36:21 I am running GPS + 3G + Mapper and I seem to have a net discharge Apr 11 06:36:33 ouch Apr 11 06:36:44 DocScrutinizer: I am trying to use it as a in car GPS setup so that's not an option Apr 11 06:37:18 adding Media player w/OGG support to the mix is what was pegging my CPU Apr 11 06:37:56 so either Mapper has grown fatter since it was Maemo mapper or even the OMAP3 can't keep up with mapping + OGG decode at the same time Apr 11 06:38:22 ds3: if you feel like DIY, then build a custom charge cable (maybe out of a CA-101) where D+ and D- aren't permanently shorted, but rather by a relay that breaks the connection when the 12V is off Apr 11 06:38:39 Trizt: heippa Apr 11 06:39:09 DocScrutinizer: what was your idea? Apr 11 06:39:29 DocScrutinizer: maybe that but from an iGo tip+USB setup...easier to work with full size A connectors Apr 11 06:41:09 nix that idea...it probally won't work since the iGo tip is where the resistor is Apr 11 06:41:16 it's been halfway SpeedEvil_ 's idea. Anyway there seems to be no standard for 2G->3G handover, as the modem probably can't poll for 3G BTS while GPRS tarffic is going on. So the idea is to fetch the list of 'neighbour' 3G BTS for a 2G cell from internet. This way the modem has a way to tell if it's a good idea to switch to 3G Apr 11 06:41:28 konttori: ^^^ Apr 11 06:46:40 who is jhakala? Apr 11 06:51:34 konttori: if carriers have a way to check the IMEI in a internet request for 3G neighbours of a 2G cell with their location server that can confirm the IMEI is actually in the queried 2G cell, then probably they would find it's a good idea as they never open up their full network config database to any abuse and they gain better service quality with low TCO (just a few servers with a link to location server) Apr 11 06:51:42 LiraNuna: your imaginary friend? Apr 11 06:51:55 crashanddie, ... Apr 11 06:52:03 it shows he compiled GCC for scratchbox Apr 11 06:52:55 konttori: and Nokia could be first to offer this with N900 Apr 11 06:55:50 LiraNuna: he's the guy who compiled GCC for scratchbox? Apr 11 06:55:58 konttori: or even simpler: as all GPRS traffic is routed via the BTS, the 'server' for the 3G neighbours could be implemented in every BTS software, under a 'local' IP Apr 11 06:58:30 konttori: please don't get that wrong, the whole story is based on mere assumptions about how 2G->3G handover actually works. If these assumptions are incorrect, the whole idea might be moot Apr 11 06:58:39 when the N900 goes from 3G to 3.5, is that a bug? Apr 11 06:58:57 huh? Apr 11 06:59:07 I'd call it a nice feature Apr 11 06:59:15 the signal strength indicator Apr 11 06:59:46 3.5 is only detected during real traffic Apr 11 06:59:51 trying to figure out if it is really going back to EDGE (2.5) where there is a bug updating or is there really such a thing as 3.5? Apr 11 07:00:20 3.5 is HSPA (turbo UMTS) Apr 11 07:01:31 ah okay Apr 11 07:07:43 3.5 is only detected during real traffic Apr 11 07:07:54 that's why I only see it jumping from 3G to 2.5 Apr 11 07:08:00 3.5* Apr 11 07:08:23 is it a technical limitation? or driver "problem" ? Apr 11 07:09:58 what? the '3.5 only during data traffic'? Apr 11 07:10:51 yeah Apr 11 07:12:22 UMTS nees to establish an active connection prior to each transfer. Probably the HSPA property isn't in the standard advertisment of the cell, and is negotiated for each active connection Apr 11 07:13:00 anyway I've seen this on other phones as well Apr 11 07:13:20 so probably 'tech limitation' Apr 11 07:13:52 I see Apr 11 07:16:03 it was the case on e90, and I believe I've heard the thing repeatedly on web forums about other ones too (at least nokia, .fi being so strongly nokia-oriented that there's rather limited interest for other ecosystems as more than just call devices) Apr 11 07:19:17 konttori: btw were you able to gather some info about how to get service info from modem, like neighbour cells etc - for onen's openbmap project Apr 11 07:52:51 wow Apr 11 07:52:58 fedora knows no end of pissing me off Apr 11 08:53:19 Was just at the corner shop, and by slightly remixing the headlines of two newspapers: "Immigrants cause global warming" Apr 11 08:56:33 hmm. Apr 11 08:57:03 * SpeedEvil_ wonders if the term cleaner miles could become widely used. Apr 11 08:58:05 N900 is 500MHz or 600MHz? Apr 11 08:58:09 god i hate mms Apr 11 08:58:32 or rather carrier holding on to the messages for x amount of time for no god damn reason at all Apr 11 09:08:15 morning Apr 11 09:11:34 hello #maemo, do you all know if there's been any work to automatically transform normal gtk/qt UIs into mobile-friendly UIs? Apr 11 09:11:50 what do you mean by automatic? Apr 11 09:11:58 i mean by making changes to the UI toolkit Apr 11 09:12:10 say, modifying gtk and qt on maemo Apr 11 09:12:28 Anyonw know if I should apt-get upgrade the SDK to pr 1.2 and still be able to build stuff for the pr 1.1.1 image we have Apr 11 09:12:39 danielsilva: ah I see Apr 11 09:13:00 danielsilva: there are some changes if a hildon window is used rather than a gtk window Apr 11 09:13:16 lardman: what sort of changes? Apr 11 09:13:31 window looks different Apr 11 09:14:18 anyone else have any better thoughts than mine? Apr 11 09:14:26 as I've not touched GTK+ since last year Apr 11 09:15:05 lardman: I was thinking something like this :) http://i.imgur.com/ifotX.png Apr 11 09:15:33 that's an LD_PRELOAD shim for gtk, hiding unnecessary parts of the UI Apr 11 09:15:47 top right shows a normal gtk app Apr 11 09:16:28 on the left (and scaled down on the bottom right) is the same app, but with a modified gtk that hides toolbars, menubars, statusbars, and some group frames Apr 11 09:16:38 yep Apr 11 09:16:41 and scrollbars Apr 11 09:17:27 i slapped that code together today but not sure where to send these ideas Apr 11 09:17:34 Well that's not what you get with gtk+ here, though there may be some patched components Apr 11 09:17:45 is it gtk? Apr 11 09:17:54 which is being deprecated... Apr 11 09:17:57 it's a shared library that intercepts gtk calls Apr 11 09:18:03 (for use in Maemo anyway) Apr 11 09:18:05 could do the same for qt or clutter Apr 11 09:18:37 Well it's certainly of interest, and GTK will move to being a community maintained toolkit for use in maemo, so send it to the maemo-developers list Apr 11 09:18:55 alright Apr 11 09:34:21 lardman, Will hildon widgets be community maintained, too? Qt will be the only official toolkit? Apr 11 09:35:24 lardman: you should reply to the maemo-community thread regarding documentation Apr 11 09:36:41 lardman: highlight spam! Your screen is all red now! Apr 11 09:36:44 lardman: happy sunday! Apr 11 09:37:56 hey crashanddie Apr 11 09:38:17 Ken-Young: I think that is supposed to be the case, yes Apr 11 09:39:35 crashanddie: stuff from maemo-community gets moved by my work computer, and Kontact doesn't seem to be able to see deleted but non-purged messages on the IMAP server Apr 11 09:45:40 is that just a complicated way of saying: "Will do tomorrow"? Apr 11 09:47:30 * ShadowJK wonders if imap even has a "deleted and non-purged" state Apr 11 09:47:38 something like that, plus a quick curse of Kontact Apr 11 09:48:06 ShadowJK: hmm, I wonder if that's deleted and non-purged from Outlook's internal db then Apr 11 09:48:37 had never really thought about it, though actually I can still see the emails in deleted and non-purged form from webmail, so they must still be on the imap server Apr 11 09:49:05 * lardman checks webmail to see what crashanddie is on about Apr 11 09:49:19 not enough coffee :p Apr 11 09:51:11 crashanddie: The thread from dneary? I don't see any relevance...? Apr 11 09:51:45 lardman: no, Andrew's thread "Sprint, your action required" Apr 11 09:53:45 ah, I try to avoid sprints Apr 11 09:53:53 and I'm pretty short on time atm anyway Apr 11 09:56:45 mate, your priorities aren't set right I'm afraid Apr 11 09:56:51 we need to see a bit more commitment from you Apr 11 09:57:29 lol Apr 11 10:06:42 lardman: actually, it has nothing to do with the sprint Apr 11 10:06:59 lardman: rather has become a discussion about the organisation of documentation Apr 11 10:07:10 Oh right Apr 11 10:07:25 well I'm sure I don't really need to stick my oar in too Apr 11 10:07:40 but I'll have a look at the thread later on, once ff has updated itself Apr 11 10:11:43 hmm, am not fond of the gmane interface to the ml archives Apr 11 10:13:18 argh! Apr 11 10:13:40 anyone know how I can just look at a list of the email subjects rather than single days and the whole message? Apr 11 10:15:27 lardman: http://n2.nabble.com/maemo-community-f2589629.html Apr 11 10:16:32 ah, I was looking for a build log actually, but thanks Apr 11 10:18:10 so, apparently libtool now needs a dep? Apr 11 10:18:35 or rather needs to be added as a dep Apr 11 10:22:13 bbl, work to do Apr 11 10:34:15 Haha, if your wife catches you wanking to a slurry movie, and she threathens a divorce... Is that "The Porn Ultimatum"? Apr 11 10:35:52 lol Apr 11 10:53:39 ~curse tmo for being down Apr 11 10:53:43 re Apr 11 10:53:49 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, tmo for being down ! Apr 11 10:55:09 tmo is always down Apr 11 10:55:55 They must of misread when they bought the server. It must of said "99% downtime" rather than "99% uptime" Apr 11 10:56:11 :) Apr 11 10:56:17 probably too many people Apr 11 10:56:22 overloaded Apr 11 10:56:34 probably wishful thinking Apr 11 10:56:38 lol j/k :P Apr 11 10:59:04 Termana: MUST HAVE Apr 11 10:59:24 crashanddie: misread? :P Apr 11 10:59:49 no, misspelt. It's "Must have said", not "must of said" Apr 11 10:59:53 you tool. Apr 11 11:00:30 Ah, i see. Thanks for the tip fag. Apr 11 11:00:47 lol Apr 11 11:24:37 hi there Apr 11 11:25:28 is it any way to update to new firmware without reflashing? Apr 11 11:26:54 Anti[N900]; from the nokia repo Apr 11 11:28:09 which of? Apr 11 11:29:11 i've 2 default nokia repos, and it's no new update? Apr 11 11:29:34 s/?// Apr 11 11:29:35 Anti[N900] meant: i've 2 default nokia repos, and it's no new update Apr 11 11:29:38 it's per default in your add/remove catalogues, you should get a notification about the update as soon as the new version has been released and you are online with the phone Apr 11 11:30:14 I guess you are waiting for pr1.2, and it's not released yet Apr 11 11:31:51 uhm... and what about situation, that some software in maemo devel//testing repo requre new versions of system components Apr 11 11:32:06 that is an ongoing problem Apr 11 11:32:08 and qt too :) Apr 11 11:32:10 Anti[N900]; it will tell you that you can't install it Apr 11 11:32:44 though if the packages are built with specific version deps, they should mostly run on pr1.1.1 afaiu Apr 11 11:32:56 but many aren't Apr 11 11:34:05 but shouldn't take too many years until pr1.2 is released and those last dependencies are solved Apr 11 11:34:26 fingers crossed ;) Apr 11 11:36:41 but yeah, should be out soon we all assume Apr 11 11:40:10 lardman; you forking up? Apr 11 11:40:23 nah, crappy TalkTalk connection Apr 11 11:41:41 * Trizt nods Apr 11 11:42:52 FF is playing up too, but I've read that may be down to FF itself Apr 11 11:43:06 timing out, etc., almost like a DNS problem somewhere Apr 11 11:44:03 hmmm... checked that the dog haven't chewed your tp-cable? Apr 11 11:44:20 no pets :) Apr 11 11:44:27 gf? Apr 11 11:44:30 wife Apr 11 11:44:46 oh, those may chew on cables from time to time ;) Apr 11 11:44:50 lol Apr 11 11:55:40 btw, sometimes i think about question, why default N900 partitions table is so terrible? :) Apr 11 11:56:10 Anti[N900]; for someone was bored at work ;) Apr 11 12:02:17 if you dont know why, don't assume "terrible" Apr 11 12:03:00 Anti[N900]: simply an accumulation of design descisios that seemed reasonable at the time. Apr 11 12:03:29 awesomeness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp8SOjWFMiU Apr 11 12:03:38 uhm Apr 11 12:04:43 :) your car? Apr 11 12:05:25 and why many software is not optified and installing in "nofreespace" root partition? :) Apr 11 12:05:28 :)) Apr 11 12:05:53 crashanddie: yeah I saw that on the news Apr 11 12:05:55 nasty Apr 11 12:06:05 it's amazing no one was hurt Apr 11 12:06:11 tho was it April the 1st...? Apr 11 12:06:31 btw. https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo1/armel.build.log.OK.txt Apr 11 12:06:38 lardman: would surprise me, it was documented on good news week on march 25th Apr 11 12:06:51 ok, just wondering Apr 11 12:09:53 jacekowski; does it work? Apr 11 12:10:06 kinda Apr 11 12:10:20 what's not working as supposed? Apr 11 12:10:44 input/ no kinteic scrolling/ Apr 11 12:10:45 mhm Apr 11 12:10:47 fullscreen Apr 11 12:10:49 no zoom Apr 11 12:11:12 well, no zoom with volume keys Apr 11 12:11:23 i hope to fix most of that today Apr 11 12:11:46 okey, that's not too bad, my volume buttons don't work in all apps anyway Apr 11 12:12:07 it will hopefully appear in repo in couple minutes Apr 11 12:12:53 okey, I'll maybe test it, this far I have been kind of disappointed with the alternative browsers Apr 11 12:14:04 only thing i can say Apr 11 12:14:08 that it's really fast Apr 11 12:14:23 esspecialy javascript performanc Apr 11 12:14:24 e Apr 11 12:14:56 thats something positive then Apr 11 12:15:31 cool Apr 11 12:15:34 well done then Apr 11 12:23:10 so what's the take with this overclocking? Apr 11 12:23:13 safe? Apr 11 12:23:42 no Apr 11 12:26:02 how unsafe is it? Apr 11 12:26:35 you need a 2000mm 10000rpm fan to do it safe? Apr 11 12:27:01 * Trizt neads tea Apr 11 12:27:05 i was told not to, so i wont Apr 11 12:27:15 ~lart TalkTalk Apr 11 12:27:16 * infobot offers TalkTalk some herring Apr 11 12:28:03 Trizt: very unsafe Apr 11 12:28:15 Trizt: it drasticaly reduces lifespan of cpu Apr 11 12:28:44 Trizt: and it's like from 500 years at 400MHz to 200h on 700MHz Apr 11 12:29:06 is there already documented cases where device has bricked from overclocking? Apr 11 12:29:57 it won't fail straight away Apr 11 12:30:09 just couple days/weeks later Apr 11 12:30:34 and then people will start - lol omg wtf my n900 is broken Apr 11 12:30:38 i guess overclocking instructions have been around for about week now Apr 11 12:30:44 instead of - i've broken my device by OC Apr 11 12:30:49 so first should be visible soon Apr 11 12:31:11 if it really is so harmfull for cpu / other parts Apr 11 12:31:38 DocScrutinizer: Apr 11 12:31:55 DocScrutinizer: another OC fan Apr 11 12:32:12 sadly you can't just change the cpu to one of those newer dualcores Apr 11 12:32:48 but I would have been a little bit happier if the n900 was a lite bit faster on switching to a higher frequency when on load Apr 11 12:33:54 certain websites will always be slow - it is part of their business model to be slow Apr 11 12:34:02 repository is broken Apr 11 12:34:29 i've checked and no single package has been added today Apr 11 12:34:38 no point Apr 11 12:34:51 autobuilder builds packages with unsatisfiable dependencies Apr 11 12:34:58 pupnik; yes, and some make software slower so that you have to buy more powerful hardware Apr 11 12:35:22 But you can whine on bug ##9752 Apr 11 12:35:24 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9752 Autobuilder links against uninstallable libraries Apr 11 12:35:45 Trizt: i was thinking of fadt loading ads and slow loading content Apr 11 12:36:34 pupnik; okey, I almost never notice those differences as privoxy filters the adds away for me Apr 11 12:38:05 hehe Apr 11 12:38:49 have you heard about applications fail in fullscreen mode like this before: when program is active, a new "unknown" window is created and force switched to, and the program window dies. The new window shutdown itself when going to task switcher Apr 11 12:38:56 I still remember the old good time, no ads and no frames on the web pages Apr 11 12:39:44 I still can't understand people not using the old good adblock Apr 11 12:40:31 pages are supported by ads. Apr 11 12:40:53 wolf^; all browsers don't support it, so better have privoxy, works for all browsers as far as I know Apr 11 12:41:20 We've been there before, and intermediate layers between the platform and the developer ultimately produces sub-standard apps and hinders the progress of the platform.' (c) Steve Jobs Apr 11 12:43:27 i dont want apps to become totally webcentric either. give me offline capability to get things done Apr 11 12:44:49 pupnik; but thats the way to pay for the license in the future Apr 11 12:45:19 sometimes network just doesnt work Apr 11 12:50:49 "Here it comes, here it comes" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQ5p7u2JdI&feature=related Apr 11 12:50:53 woops, wrong link Apr 11 12:51:10 right link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQN9SdvO-vs Apr 11 12:58:18 libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those? Apr 11 13:04:27 nobody interested in patching up bundyo's gemrb package eh Apr 11 13:04:40 its hardly a candidate for autobuilder atm Apr 11 13:13:12 pupnik: Well, I am not releasing anything to autobuilder until 1) they fix it to produce installable packages or 2) PR1.2 is released Apr 11 13:13:27 pupnik: No ETA on either, so app development stalled Apr 11 13:14:14 i actually played some nethack. falcons eye is that good Apr 11 13:14:53 wondering if ui can be made still easier for noobs Apr 11 13:15:00 prolly not Apr 11 13:15:11 they will be better off playing a simpler game Apr 11 13:15:19 yeah Apr 11 13:15:49 which reminds me, qauozl's pygame netrek can run on n900, but needs ui work Apr 11 13:16:10 RST38h: do you know if libtool now has to be added as a dep for packages to build? Apr 11 13:16:36 lardman: No idea, but I do not think it will make any difference Apr 11 13:17:04 just that a new build I sent in doesn't want to build, was wondering if this is an effect of the SDK upgrade Apr 11 13:17:27 get on the phone with X-Fade or whomever Apr 11 13:17:32 version upgrade, same debianisation files, etc but with version bum[ Apr 11 13:17:47 yeah, am also not so bothered until we see PR 1.2 tbh Apr 11 13:18:38 pupnik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_video_games Apr 11 13:19:27 pupnik: some not yet ported rpgs there Apr 11 14:06:15 Heya maemo :) Apr 11 14:06:22 Long time no see :) Apr 11 14:07:42 moooo wazd Apr 11 14:07:46 how are things? Apr 11 14:09:46 Rst38h: heya Apr 11 14:10:13 Rst38h: fixed ti84+ screen, but forgot to send it to you :( Apr 11 14:11:02 Rst38h: still don't see the solution for buttons Apr 11 14:12:33 libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those? Apr 11 14:19:39 wazd: Maybe stylize buttons so that they look approximately but not exactly like the real thing? Apr 11 14:19:56 wazd: autobuilder is broken, so I cannot release this stuff anyway, any time soon Apr 11 14:21:42 wazd: in brighter news, seems that there is Chromium for Maemo5 and it is said to be pretty speedy Apr 11 14:22:18 * FIQ has it Apr 11 14:22:37 and it works fine Apr 11 14:23:00 Rst38h: well, maybe, but it look so cool now :( Apr 11 14:24:08 Rst38h: my sister is tearing herself appart, cause now she realized how much could she save buying a laptop thru you in us :) Apr 11 14:26:29 Rst38h: some vaios has almost $+1k pricetags in here Apr 11 14:27:10 hey ho \o Apr 11 14:27:20 you been busy beaver wazd_e63 ? Apr 11 14:27:58 hm, anyone? Apr 11 14:33:24 Lcuk: hey there Apr 11 14:33:39 Lcuk: yeah, lots of stuff to do Apr 11 14:34:15 Lcuk: since I'm a one man army :) Apr 11 14:34:26 wazd: Should have just bought an ASUS Apr 11 14:34:33 wazd: Or, eeek, Samsung Apr 11 14:34:37 moo, gentleman Apr 11 14:34:45 moo indeed, javispedro Apr 11 14:34:51 Rst38h: samsung? Wut? :D Apr 11 14:35:00 Javispedro: heyaa Apr 11 14:35:20 * RST38h cackles evilly, while copying latest Dr Who, Stargate, and Fringe to his N900 Apr 11 14:35:48 Rst38h: Aw, just saw premiere episodes of sgu Apr 11 14:36:01 wazd: Get the Doctor Apr 11 14:36:07 Or sonething like that Apr 11 14:36:34 wazd: SGU is nice (I mean nicer than previous SG series) but too bland Apr 11 14:36:41 wazd_e63; seen all the episodes this far and still feels like nothing has happen in sgu Apr 11 14:37:02 Trizt: Nothing will, it is just the new StarTrek Apr 11 14:37:12 Rst38h: don't have much time for this stuff, just had a terrible hangover yesterday, so could't work at all :) Apr 11 14:37:16 what could happen with such a premise? Apr 11 14:37:20 wazd: eh! Apr 11 14:37:20 even startrek had more action Apr 11 14:37:44 Trizt: It is all about psychological suspense! Apr 11 14:38:03 * Trizt must have missed that Apr 11 14:38:05 Trizt: US military culture vs US corporate culture vs US government culture Apr 11 14:38:19 Trizt: With poor grunts caught in between =) Apr 11 14:38:40 Trizt: I guess it's not much about action, but some senseless shiny stuff :) Apr 11 14:38:41 Also ckecked out 1st episode of V Apr 11 14:39:00 * RST38h is eagerly awaiting some kind of political correctness crisis on SGU Apr 11 14:39:25 mix of characters from lost and this series bout two plastic surgerers :) Apr 11 14:39:30 wazd: Not the same as the ancient series about rodent-eating aliens? Apr 11 14:39:50 Rst38h: dunno :) Apr 11 14:40:05 Rst38h: nobody was eaten yet :) Apr 11 14:40:21 wazd_e63, RST38h; it has similarities with the original series Apr 11 14:40:36 wazd: The original V was kinda nice, like US eagerly copying Russian WWII movie with aliens instead of germans =) Apr 11 14:40:55 Rst38h: well, at least they are crocodiles, covered with human skin Apr 11 14:41:59 wazd: Yea, that is the thing, right from the original V Apr 11 14:42:18 Rst38h: since V has only 9 episodes, I guess they failed :) Apr 11 14:42:23 wazd: Another cute piece of trivia about V: "The script was presented to NBC, for production as a television mini-series, but the NBC executives rejected the initial version, claiming it was too "cerebral" for the average American viewer. To make the script more marketable, the American fascists were re-cast as man-eating extraterrestrials, taking the story into the realm of science fiction." Apr 11 14:42:38 :) Apr 11 14:43:01 Hehe :) Apr 11 14:44:39 * Trizt will watch some crappy episodes of ST:Voyager Apr 11 14:45:10 Trizt: somach problems? :D Apr 11 14:45:16 Stomach* Apr 11 14:45:36 No, not yet :P Apr 11 14:45:53 Then why do you want to throw up? Apr 11 14:46:12 See how long I can hold it down Apr 11 14:46:40 Trizt: oh, that's an old drunk party game :D Apr 11 14:47:25 didn't knwo, just had those drink when someone does something wrong in starwars Apr 11 14:48:41 it's quite horrible, but ST:V seems to be todays best program on telly Apr 11 14:49:05 Rst38h: and bout laptop: she needs it for status showcasing too, so no cheap look :) Apr 11 14:49:45 wazd_e63; skinnit.com? Apr 11 14:50:14 Trizt: do they work with mother russia too? :) Apr 11 14:50:43 just special order and you can cover whole russia Apr 11 14:50:50 Trizt: and what do they do anyway, I'm on the phone with 5k bucks per meg Apr 11 14:51:27 they have "stickers" for different devices, so you can have designed look Apr 11 14:51:40 Trizt: aw, pfff :) Apr 11 14:51:44 or some hilarious family photo Apr 11 14:52:01 Trizt: NO cheap look :D Apr 11 14:52:08 :D Apr 11 14:52:41 Trizt: I thought they can make some custom leather or metal casing :) Apr 11 14:53:03 wazd: ASUS builds some laptops that look nicely, in spite of being made of shit and vapors Apr 11 14:53:36 Rst38h: she's found HP elitebook 2530p Apr 11 14:53:37 wazd: See bamboo series Apr 11 14:53:41 wazd_e63; sure, they can use some pattern to make it almost look like that Apr 11 14:53:56 * RST38h isn't sure what that HP is. They all look like bricks covered in blue lights to him Apr 11 14:54:21 * javispedro likes older thinkpads Apr 11 14:54:28 HP is the utter crap, I will sell mine if someone dares to want to buy it Apr 11 14:56:53 Trizt <-- obviously never used Lenovo ;) Apr 11 14:56:56 Even the Chinese think HP is crap, not just thinking of that video where a customer jumped on his laptop as HP refused to repair it, but that Chinese government has closed down factories where they produced HP laptops, as the factories did make so low quality product that the government thought it was hurting the Chinese reputation. Apr 11 14:57:17 * RST38h looks over the list of proposed GSoC apps, sadly Apr 11 14:57:33 So much trying to win Google's attention there... Apr 11 14:57:59 So many copycats, too Apr 11 14:58:00 No, I haven't. I'm thinking about a Nokia one, but only if it runs ARM or some other none 8080 based CPU Apr 11 14:58:48 Trizt: still it's the only laptop that fits her requirements: light, 13", durable, expensive looking :) Apr 11 14:58:59 Every third applicant proposes to develop an eBook reader. Apr 11 14:59:10 Every second applicant wants to develop "something for the cloud" Apr 11 14:59:13 Rst38h: meh Apr 11 14:59:27 :) Apr 11 14:59:59 Rst38h: so there is a guy that develops eBook reader for the cloud?) Apr 11 15:00:48 wazd_e63; that must be the most important application this millenium Apr 11 15:01:45 trizt: sure it is Apr 11 15:01:55 Cloudreader 3000 Apr 11 15:01:56 I think I'll buy at least 100 Apr 11 15:02:06 wazd: Prolly Apr 11 15:02:31 wazd: It makes perfect sense, the book is in the cloud, the user has no access to it, he can just read it, on the cloud... Apr 11 15:03:03 on the other hand an unreader application had been good, so you could reread a book as if you read it for the first time Apr 11 15:03:38 Trizt, as you get older you find you can read books you once knew Apr 11 15:04:01 unreader is natural - it has a name also: senility Apr 11 15:05:07 im sure ive heard about some sort of cloud based document viewer Apr 11 15:05:10 Lots of Meego in the Maemo GSoC too Apr 11 15:05:13 but its name eludes me Apr 11 15:05:27 * RST38h considers marking down all Meego proposals out of sheer spite =) Apr 11 15:05:46 Ah, let us not be evil (C)Google Apr 11 15:06:25 lcuk; can you remind me which ones to read in a couple of years? Apr 11 15:06:44 Trizt, birth certificate is always a good read Apr 11 15:07:01 the characters in it are somehow important Apr 11 15:07:07 nah, then you get just so damn depressed when you know how old you are Apr 11 15:07:08 but i cant remember why Apr 11 15:07:10 what about meego on some of these android phobnez Apr 11 15:07:27 * pupnik strikes questioning rapper pose Apr 11 15:07:35 pupnik: We do not even have a usable Meego on N900s... Apr 11 15:07:41 so which CPU will have the first meego device? Apr 11 15:07:57 * lcuk does some sort of rapper hand gesture - fo' sur pupnik Apr 11 15:08:07 lol RST38h Apr 11 15:08:15 well izm sayzin the mode de emploi on them should be considured Apr 11 15:08:29 mode d'emploi Apr 11 15:09:34 lcuk: you fraud! Apr 11 15:09:46 pupnik; it could be an improvement with a xterm for a phone used to run android Apr 11 15:09:55 From: Gary Apr 11 15:10:06 "We are China based company explicitly active for iPhone software programming solutions and Mobile Application Development services as well as wireless application (WAP) development." Apr 11 15:10:13 I KNEW IT! Apr 11 15:10:20 Now it is iPhone solutions? Apr 11 15:10:27 It has been web design, then PHP Apr 11 15:10:30 sure why not run android from meego kernel Apr 11 15:10:47 or am i being wrong Apr 11 15:10:48 anyway, have a good one all Apr 11 15:10:52 cu crashanddie Apr 11 15:13:19 am a noob in n900 development, anyone can tell hws best to begin ? Apr 11 15:13:33 1. Install Ubuntu Linux Apr 11 15:13:44 2. Get Maemo SDK and install it onto Ubuntu Linux Apr 11 15:13:51 use 32bit Apr 11 15:13:51 3. Follow tutorials from maemo.org Apr 11 15:14:06 4. Do get a real device, as debugging under SDK is kinda useless Apr 11 15:14:32 or download the VM that contains the dev env pre-installed. Apr 11 15:14:35 yep using karmic ubuntu 9.1, using virtualbox for 32 bit , do have a device... Apr 11 15:14:51 you do not need virtual box Apr 11 15:14:55 which tutorial ? any url... too much there Apr 11 15:14:57 all you need is ubuntu Apr 11 15:15:17 really ? i had trouble with scratchbox on 64 Apr 11 15:15:34 I love it when people on tmo say "I don't understand, I have offered a solution on brainstorm, but people (amongst which respectable community members) have downvoted my proposal... I don't understand" Apr 11 15:16:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide Apr 11 15:16:31 * javispedro always though brainstorm-like applicacions are not very useful Apr 11 15:16:40 see the ubuntu one Apr 11 15:17:00 ideas are cheap Apr 11 15:17:07 javispedro: But they let the people responsible claim that they have done their job, without implementing any proposed changes Apr 11 15:17:21 ideas are like assholes, everybody has one Apr 11 15:17:24 cool ok.. Apr 11 15:17:39 gopalakr: Do not use 64bit OS Apr 11 15:18:02 (not sure why you would be using it anyway) Apr 11 15:18:04 ah, using a 64bit OS is just fine, but then you will spend more time developing scratchbox instead of maemo apps :) Apr 11 15:18:31 yea Apr 11 15:18:44 64bit is OK, just a tick harder to setup the SDK Apr 11 15:19:03 i mean 64bit is not trivial atleast for the lay to semi literate developers Apr 11 15:20:28 * lupine_85 uses 64-bit + scratchbox Apr 11 15:20:32 took no time at all to set up Apr 11 15:21:29 * RST38h uses scratchbox2 Apr 11 15:23:25 Id love to see a one-stop ducumentation for support on 64 bit,, Apr 11 15:23:42 the hacks i meant Apr 11 15:23:56 if you reaaaaaaaaaaly want 64 bit just do it and come here to complain when it does not work (it's what everyone does after all :P ) Apr 11 15:24:16 then hope someone recognizes the problem and posts the solution Apr 11 15:25:00 * javispedro shudders. nokia is still suggesting to disable vdso. Apr 11 15:26:27 vdso? Apr 11 15:27:12 virtual dynamic shared object Apr 11 15:27:13 javispedro: that is more of a qemu problem though Apr 11 15:27:32 Stskeeps: it's a glibc problem for all I know Apr 11 15:28:24 * RST38h has no idea what vdso is Apr 11 15:28:47 but the whole scheme of running half the sdk executables in qemu sounds like a potential clusterfuck Apr 11 15:28:57 what linux uses to enable support for sysenter Apr 11 15:29:05 hm, anyone that can solve my dep problem? Apr 11 15:29:31 javispedro: in newer kernels you do not ned to disable vdso Apr 11 15:29:37 i was trying to install Firefox 1.0.0 on a N810 and the operation failed because there wasn't enough memory on the device. Now the device has entered a reboot loop and gets as far as the home screen and stops responding an then reboots. i have advaced power mgmt installed and it shows a red empty battery icon and before connecting to the apmd daemon it reboots Apr 11 15:30:00 what do i do? Apr 11 15:30:15 Stskeeps: I think I pointed that on a bug report; the issue is that the glibc-2.3.2 sbox ships doesn't work with _randomized_ vdso. Nokia's suggestion is to disable vdso entirely support. Apr 11 15:30:38 Stskeeps: but it works with the older fixed, "compat" vdso. Apr 11 15:30:59 http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/sbox/rtld-vdso-assertion.patch Apr 11 15:31:11 (this patch to sbox's glibc fixes it...) Apr 11 15:31:27 unfortunately it takes more than 24 hours to build in the debian-sarge vm. Apr 11 15:32:39 anubody? Apr 11 15:44:33 why builder is broken Apr 11 15:52:59 2,285 posts in o/c thread :( Apr 11 15:53:22 i think you meant, break my phone thread Apr 11 15:55:35 o/c? Apr 11 15:55:49 xorAxAx: overclock Apr 11 15:56:15 wow Apr 11 15:57:46 probably spinning in circles after every 89 posts Apr 11 15:58:00 javispedro: The Tentacled One is feeling triumphant today! Apr 11 15:59:49 well, in the end it's healthy darwinism Apr 11 16:03:06 javispedro: Can I put you as point man on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council for "PR1.2 autobuilder"? Apr 11 16:03:32 Jaffa: I think so Apr 11 16:03:53 javispedro: Cool, we could probably do with an update to the wiki page or thread about the experiments you & X-Fade have been doin Apr 11 16:04:09 ok, will expand on that Apr 11 16:05:46 javispedro: Done :-) Apr 11 16:07:28 i'm giving up on free Apr 11 16:07:44 so, from now on gentlemen, redirect all libhildon1 dependency complains to me :) Apr 11 16:07:55 if my package doesn't appear there before .deb finishes building i'm sending binary to non-free Apr 11 16:08:07 huh. it says here that placing a call locks the cpu at 600mhz until the other side picks up Apr 11 16:08:11 this seems very daft Apr 11 16:08:18 and possibly dangerous Apr 11 16:08:41 where does it say so? Apr 11 16:08:53 javispedro: Probably want to add yourself as CC on ihttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9752f you haven't already :-( Apr 11 16:08:53 Bug 9752f: could not be retrieved: InvalidBugId Apr 11 16:09:02 bug 9752 Apr 11 16:09:03 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9752 Autobuilder links against uninstallable libraries Apr 11 16:09:12 yeah, read it this morning Apr 11 16:09:17 jacekowski: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=601691&postcount=1823 well okay that's not the best source I know Apr 11 16:11:16 hi Apr 11 16:11:28 hey all Apr 11 16:11:43 Shapeshifter: "Maybe we should file a bug report (if someone can confirm my observation with a stock kernel)?" Apr 11 16:11:58 Shapeshifter: nobody confirmed it on stock kernel so far Apr 11 16:12:16 yay Apr 11 16:12:37 i am the southern most IRC user in mainland england! Apr 11 16:13:38 heh, why not OC to 1GHz on placing a call? Maybe other end picks up faster then :-P Apr 11 16:15:27 600Mhz lock has been confirmed for stock kernel http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=601725&postcount=1828 Apr 11 16:16:37 If haven't been following the OC thread - it has become the undervoltage thread Apr 11 16:16:43 how much time does your telco allow to ring without answering? Apr 11 16:17:05 *the other end answering, of course. Apr 11 16:17:16 we're now running 500Mhz with the voltage uses for Idle. so we set min. freq to 500 Apr 11 16:17:39 that sounds clever Apr 11 16:17:53 besides, 600MHz is safe Apr 11 16:18:01 I see that undervolting works quite well. no instabilities? Apr 11 16:18:04 javispedro: haven't tried ringing for more than 1h :) Apr 11 16:18:08 phone is running at that frequency when you are playing games or something Apr 11 16:18:10 pft. Apr 11 16:18:21 javispedro: there's no hard standard Apr 11 16:18:30 yeah, my telco cuts at 2-3 minutes Apr 11 16:18:35 Shapeshifter: yes, flawless so far Apr 11 16:18:45 t-tan: does it improve battery life? Apr 11 16:18:59 jacekowski: we're running tests. give us some days... Apr 11 16:20:19 and we can run 850 with the same voltage uses for 500Mhz. could be safe OC Apr 11 16:20:34 s//stock/ Apr 11 16:21:18 it still increases current Apr 11 16:22:00 * DocScrutinizer sets up autokickban on regex '.* safe .* OC .*' and '.* OC .* safe .*' Apr 11 16:22:09 jacekowski: yep, but if it's less than 600MHz with stock it should be fine Apr 11 16:22:20 t-tan: no Apr 11 16:22:40 t-tan: there is lot more things to it than just current Apr 11 16:22:54 t-tan: higher frequency causes current to flow differently as well Apr 11 16:22:57 I know electromigration... Apr 11 16:23:15 but nobody knows how much it really affects lifetime. Apr 11 16:23:38 maybe in 2 years we know...:) Apr 11 16:23:41 well, TI knows for sure Apr 11 16:23:58 do a HALT test and tell us Apr 11 16:24:23 they had enough chips to burn, and they definitely have the knowhow Apr 11 16:25:13 every chip is different. bad chips won't run stable with undervoltage... Apr 11 16:25:25 so what? Apr 11 16:25:54 that's what selection in fab is for Apr 11 16:26:36 it's only for the minimum requirements. some N900 owners are more lucky than others... Apr 11 16:26:54 exactly -- they're not idiots one has to assume. if more than, say, 25% of the chips worked fine at a lower voltage they would market them so for sure. Apr 11 16:26:58 t-tan: does the increased idle clock increase smoothness significantly? isn't it just a placebo effect? Apr 11 16:27:03 exactly to Doc :) Apr 11 16:27:14 of coure sometime chip manufs 'label down' higher rated chips, if they are in a pinch and some big customer places big order Apr 11 16:27:52 Shapeshifter: changes in clock causes cache flush Apr 11 16:28:04 Shapeshifter: so it is possible Apr 11 16:28:10 Shapeshifter: honestly, I can't tell. maybe if I had to N900 to compare simultaenously Apr 11 16:28:26 but I'd believe in that only if a test on a 1000-base of samples was done in a scientific manner Apr 11 16:28:35 mhh. I'm looking forward to some tests. Apr 11 16:29:02 DocScrutinizer: just send me a 1000 sample :) Apr 11 16:29:06 anyone used the listWidget.editItem() command in pyqt before? having a few issues with it, and not sure if i need to pass anything? Apr 11 16:29:32 self.listWidget.editItem(string) or do i need self.listWidget.editItem(selectedrow,string) ? Apr 11 16:29:48 t-tan: hahaha, it's not *my* hobby to OC-fry the device Apr 11 16:30:18 t-tan: you know, I have other means to kill my N900 :-P Apr 11 16:30:38 w00t_, :D - any ideas on a listwidget.editItem? :D Apr 11 16:30:55 noobmonk3y, try both Apr 11 16:30:56 the page just says (QListWidgetItem item) Apr 11 16:31:09 lol lcuk have tried but confuzzled Apr 11 16:31:14 but this is the only way to turn it into a cigarette lighter Apr 11 16:31:25 so you pass it a ref to the item you want to become editable? Apr 11 16:31:30 doesnt make sense to just pass an item and not a string to change it too? Apr 11 16:31:54 no - that call would appear to me to be the one to start interactive editing on an item Apr 11 16:32:19 to change the text of an item programmatically, isnt there a settext or similar property on the listitem itself? Apr 11 16:32:44 hmmmm will try that :D Apr 11 16:39:31 yay works! Apr 11 16:39:34 * noobmonk3y thanks lcuk Apr 11 16:39:37 again....... ;) Apr 11 16:39:44 self.listWidget.currentItem().setText Apr 11 16:40:09 got it so if i click some of the items in healthcheck they auto-update :D Apr 11 16:40:17 things like accelerometer etc :D Apr 11 16:44:03 noobmonk3y: whenever you need to know what you can do with an object just do print dir(instanceofobject) Apr 11 16:44:42 ahhhhh thatks frals :D Apr 11 16:44:49 very usel to know :D Apr 11 16:45:07 i find the trolltech riverside websites ok, but can be very confusing seeing it done in C, and not in pyqt Apr 11 16:45:41 looks like unlucky me got a device that does not work properly when both smartreflex and sleep_mode are enabled :-/ Apr 11 16:45:48 previous one was ok Apr 11 16:48:59 well that's odd. after a reboot, free space on rootfs dropped from 25 to 15... Apr 11 16:50:10 Shapeshifter: hmm, actually that's odd Apr 11 16:58:36 :| Apr 11 16:58:42 my rootfs does do random things too Apr 11 16:58:44 :( Apr 11 16:59:01 not much on at the moment and it's up to 41mb free, no repos enabled :| Apr 11 16:59:13 time for a reflash :D Apr 11 16:59:43 noobmonk3y: damn, that's not windows! Apr 11 16:59:53 hehe :P Apr 11 17:00:11 probably healthcheck eating my device apart ;) Apr 11 17:00:24 LOL Apr 11 17:00:51 rm -rf /tmp/* Apr 11 17:03:13 lol :P Apr 11 17:03:59 right off for din's :D Apr 11 17:04:01 * noobmonk3y is away Apr 11 17:09:30 hey all :D Apr 11 17:09:42 I am the southern most Maemo user in the whole of Mainland England! D: Apr 11 17:11:57 lol PhonicUK Apr 11 17:12:00 south cornwall? Apr 11 17:12:03 yeah Apr 11 17:12:08 take a look: Apr 11 17:12:09 kathy is redruth way i think Apr 11 17:12:11 http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/bpfoq/the_southern_most_reddit_post_in_mainland_england/ Apr 11 17:12:27 I posted that from near Lizard Point Apr 11 17:12:36 the absolute bottom of the country Apr 11 17:12:37 cool, not been there in years :D Apr 11 17:12:54 i got a signal at the top of The Lizard Lighthouse Apr 11 17:12:59 right back to heading out lol Apr 11 17:24:56 PhonicUK, have you checked on the map Apr 11 17:25:05 ? Apr 11 17:25:35 what do you mean Apr 11 17:25:38 pininthemap.com/maemo Apr 11 17:26:16 or rather, added it there Apr 11 17:26:41 well im only on holiday so im not sure it counts Apr 11 17:26:56 sure it does! Apr 11 17:27:07 :D Apr 11 17:27:47 how do i add a point? Apr 11 17:27:53 ah nm Apr 11 17:29:21 Whats the "master pin password" ? Apr 11 17:30:20 shotgun Apr 11 17:30:39 done :D Apr 11 17:30:41 its on the map Apr 11 17:32:06 heh PhonicUK Apr 11 17:32:14 upvote my reddit post :D Apr 11 17:32:25 not got an account Apr 11 17:32:57 hmm. i have a question: will just undervolting the n900 void it's warranty? Apr 11 17:33:12 if my phone gives spontaneous 32_wd reboots if both enable_off_mode and smartreflex are set, which one to choose to get better battery life? Apr 11 17:33:35 disable smartreflex Apr 11 17:42:06 korhojoa: no, it won't Apr 11 17:44:52 why maemo repositories are broken? Apr 11 17:44:56 all of them Apr 11 17:45:08 i've sent package 8h ago to free and nothing so far Apr 11 17:45:15 and same to non-free while ago Apr 11 17:45:22 and nothing happened as well Apr 11 17:45:55 * RST38h is getting cryptic emails in arabic Apr 11 17:45:58 usual weekend DDoS? Apr 11 17:46:12 i vote that community council members must decide on supreme ruler with a hotdog or hamburger eating contest Apr 11 17:47:11 pupnik: I would actually prefer a baloon fight Apr 11 17:47:24 it is more spectacular. Apr 11 17:47:51 jacekowski: or the 770s need ointment and for that the whole repo is down until the oilcan is empty X-P Apr 11 17:49:05 since 9th of april there was nothing added/updated Apr 11 17:49:51 maybe somebody finally is fixing the 1.2-madness Apr 11 17:50:37 though I wouldn't hold my breath for that Apr 11 17:51:30 webcam if you do Apr 11 17:51:46 Doubt it Apr 11 17:52:04 It does look like nobody cares Apr 11 17:55:04 i care a little bit about many things and a lot about a few Apr 11 18:05:44 +++++00000000000000000000000000000000000000 Apr 11 18:05:59 Hmm, is it normal that my brightness change randomly? Apr 11 18:06:10 Sometimes when messing around on it, it suddenly goes darker, and sometimes brighter Apr 11 18:06:18 marcus_, it has an ambient light sensor. Apr 11 18:06:26 GAN900: Aha! (: Thankie Apr 11 18:06:41 jacekowski: Raised a bug, or asked X-Fade? Apr 11 18:06:54 X-Fade: Apr 11 18:07:04 X-Fade: why are repositories broken? Apr 11 18:07:14 jacekowski, some people rest at weekend Apr 11 18:07:27 and their irc clients die before they get back to them Apr 11 18:07:34 write an official bug report please Apr 11 18:07:37 something that wont get lost Apr 11 18:07:46 i'll make sure that won't get lost Apr 11 18:08:46 Anyone tried the OpenArena port for n900? Saw it in the app list today. Apr 11 18:11:17 marcus_, no but I tried Quake 3 (same engine) Apr 11 18:11:49 MohammadAG: Dunno though if OpenArena has been just-as-much optimized, as it's recently been added to the repositories. Apr 11 18:12:13 not really Apr 11 18:12:18 it's been there for about 4 months Apr 11 18:12:21 I think.. Apr 11 18:12:23 o.o Apr 11 18:12:32 I oughta read all the apps one-by-one. Apr 11 18:13:00 marcus_, 2009-10-17 14:22 UTC Apr 11 18:13:08 :3 Apr 11 18:13:09 Soz. Apr 11 18:13:21 How is it though to be playing it? Hard with accelerometer movement? Apr 11 18:13:42 Very lol, got pwned by my mate who was using a kb and a mouse on his PC Apr 11 18:13:52 Haha! Ofc :P Apr 11 18:14:17 Could be epic though to go to a LAN party with your friends, while they are coming with their PCs+KB+Mouse and then you just drag out your N900 ;) Apr 11 18:14:30 we do that anyway Apr 11 18:14:36 :3 Apr 11 18:15:15 BTW, is it using OpenGL ES? Apr 11 18:15:26 if you could compete using a n900, that would be epic Apr 11 18:15:39 Indeed (: Apr 11 18:15:55 <_llll_> sounds like a good way to ruin eyesight Apr 11 18:16:22 _llll_, plug n900 into projector and run apps on cinema size projector :) Apr 11 18:16:34 video out FTW :D Apr 11 18:16:50 _llll_, it's ruined here anyways :P Apr 11 18:16:56 <_llll_> i tried that with my tv, but it's a bit odd trying to move the mouse Apr 11 18:17:00 now i know why US folks prefer a portrait mode phone. Apr 11 18:17:08 <_llll_> err, well not mouse but scrolling etc Apr 11 18:17:11 they need one hand for wanking. Apr 11 18:17:17 pupnik: Rofl Apr 11 18:17:23 * Shapeshifter is pleased with his trivial mpd controlling widgets http://stuff.moritzg.ch/Screenshot-20100411-201147.png Apr 11 18:18:00 Shapeshifter, :) Apr 11 18:18:26 nice Apr 11 18:18:58 etter readability than cutempc ... :) Apr 11 18:19:00 *better Apr 11 18:19:13 Shapeshifter: can you do a "add current track to some list" or "delete current track"? Apr 11 18:19:47 pupnik: would sure be possible. it's just the desktop command execution widget with some mpc | sed stuff Apr 11 18:20:31 is there a "delete" or "add current track to some list" in the protocol? Apr 11 18:20:39 mpc del Apr 11 18:20:43 it's all in man mpc Apr 11 18:20:54 (ohwait, the n900 doesn't have mandb :P) Apr 11 18:21:11 maybe someone could hack a net-based man alternative ;) Apr 11 18:21:48 ty. bouncy like fresh noodles. Apr 11 18:23:48 a pity that all the widgets are in the same thread :| Apr 11 18:27:14 Hmm...tmo fell into gerbilling Apr 11 18:27:40 That looks like the end of it. Apr 11 18:28:49 lol what? Apr 11 18:29:38 were someone's expectations not met? stop the internet! :P Apr 11 18:30:29 hm. I tried the xlv kernel Apr 11 18:30:38 i don't notice anything except that it now idles at 500 Apr 11 18:30:42 power savings ahoy? Apr 11 18:31:09 korhojoa, USB cable connected? Apr 11 18:31:33 it's always at 500 mhz Apr 11 18:31:49 korhojoa: the ideal or the normal xlv? Apr 11 18:31:49 unplugged it just two seconds before you asked Apr 11 18:31:51 ideal Apr 11 18:32:02 stuck in a powerconfig thing to set it to never go higher than 500 Apr 11 18:32:04 seems to be working Apr 11 18:32:05 korhojoa: yes, 500 is the default Apr 11 18:32:24 since it's now at a low voltage, it should be fine Apr 11 18:32:32 it runs 500 with very low voltage Apr 11 18:32:33 i mean, it's always at 500 when connected via usb Apr 11 18:32:46 yes, that the case for all kernels incl .stock Apr 11 18:33:00 ah. but does it up the voltage then too? Apr 11 18:33:25 when and why? Apr 11 18:35:08 I mean, they have different voltage settings. that's what the different speed 'tiers' are on the stock kernel Apr 11 18:35:31 since this kernel now has two tiers, does that mean that it goes to the higher one? Apr 11 18:35:43 check the details on http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking#Installation_of_the_latest_experimental_kernels Apr 11 18:43:28 flux: maybe someone can compile a mandb pkg for maemo? Apr 11 18:44:24 * MohammadAG wonders if that's easy... Apr 11 18:44:46 docscrutinizer, I was thinking something like #!/bin/sh man =( curl "http://man.pages.net/man/$1" ) using zsh syntax, but better Apr 11 18:45:30 can't you just alias that Apr 11 18:46:03 sure, once you have a service that gives out raw man pages based on manual page name Apr 11 18:46:14 and add some support for sections.. Apr 11 18:46:27 fun thing to do when testing stuff: ssh in and do "watch ./overclock.sh" if you have the script from the post in the current directory Apr 11 18:49:20 You can use GTK for an app ui for maemo, right? Apr 11 18:49:43 yes Apr 11 18:49:50 goodie. Apr 11 18:50:11 god damnit Apr 11 18:50:26 i did watch -n0 by mistake. Apr 11 18:50:32 don't do this, kids. Apr 11 18:51:17 tell them why as well, otherwise curiousity will kill some of the cats. Apr 11 18:51:36 I'd bet watch is spoiling results for a cpuclk freq statistics Apr 11 18:52:26 because you set the refresh to 0, and watch is a relatively simple program, if the thing you are watching too is very simple, it will cause a tight loop which runs until it catches an exception, which won't be caught since the cpu is too busy completing the watch command instead of listening to key input (or ssh) Apr 11 18:52:48 DocScrutinizer: not really Apr 11 18:52:49 * DocScrutinizer points to powertop and likes to think there's been a bit of sensible considerations behind the design Apr 11 18:52:54 it's been fairly nice Apr 11 18:52:55 it seems doubtful to me that is the correct interpretation of the situation :-o Apr 11 18:53:07 because there are no realtime priorities involved, right? Apr 11 18:53:17 exactly what I thought it would do... but weird watch even allows 0 Apr 11 18:53:28 yes. this was confusing to me too Apr 11 18:53:57 it also does not allow a value which is not divisible with 1 Apr 11 18:54:08 korhojoa, how about that it produced so much output that the terminal's processing became saturated? Apr 11 18:54:11 eg. 0.5/2.5 Apr 11 18:54:23 flux: that is possible too. didn't think of that. Apr 11 18:54:31 actually, that's probably more likely Apr 11 18:54:37 looks like somebody already reported that bug Apr 11 18:54:37 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98897 Apr 11 18:54:38 Bug 98897: was not found. Apr 11 18:54:38 seeing as i was using ssh Apr 11 18:54:44 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9889 Apr 11 18:54:45 Bug 9889: Autobuilder does not upload packaged to extras-devel Apr 11 18:55:01 RST38H: GTKmm as well? (GTK+ for C++) Apr 11 18:55:23 damnit. Apr 11 18:55:43 the n900 watch doesn't appear to use curses, so it most likely redraw the screen fully every time Apr 11 18:55:48 why does nano-tiny not put in a alias (or symlink) to nano if nano isn't installed Apr 11 18:55:58 without that -n0 would likely be well usable Apr 11 18:56:20 (hm, or 'with that ncurses-support') Apr 11 18:57:16 * MohammadAG is building man-db Apr 11 18:57:27 surprised there are no dependencies missing Apr 11 18:59:40 someone should port uprecords to maemo Apr 11 19:01:36 i think im going to make a cheerleading ircbot Apr 11 19:01:49 that responds to "can someone port ..." or similar Apr 11 19:01:58 to encourage op to do it Apr 11 19:02:15 korhojoa, if it matters to you, get involved and make a start Apr 11 19:02:29 lcuk: i'm lazy and think i'll just try the package from lenny Apr 11 19:02:38 good idea Apr 11 19:02:51 some apps work nicely when just brought over and recompiled Apr 11 19:03:08 the package itself wont tho i believe Apr 11 19:04:00 http://packages.debian.org/lenny/libuptimed0http://packages.debian.org/lenny/libuptimed0 Apr 11 19:04:06 no? :| Apr 11 19:04:10 let's see Apr 11 19:05:08 flux: for some manpages I really don't see I'd ever find it useful to have then rom internet only - ifconfig comes to mind Apr 11 19:05:24 From Apr 11 19:05:34 docscrutinizer, yes. but that's the rarest case. Apr 11 19:05:40 lcuk: We need to recruit RevdKathy as an MWKN contributor Apr 11 19:06:29 jaffa mwn could have public submissions ala slashdot? Apr 11 19:06:43 Jaffa, you get the rope, lcuk gets the chair, and I'll get a set of those cool eyelid things from a Clockwork Orange? Apr 11 19:06:55 package architecture (arm) does not match system (armel) Apr 11 19:06:58 nevertheless one single rare case moots the whole concept. If I need mandb then I need mandb and if I got it, why go for internet based manpages then? Apr 11 19:07:00 :/ Apr 11 19:07:02 <_llll_> flux: 'curl -s http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?"$1" | less' more or less usable Apr 11 19:07:10 korhojoa, i told you Apr 11 19:07:14 it still needs recompilation Apr 11 19:07:23 what's the darn difference Apr 11 19:07:30 they've both got arm in the name :( Apr 11 19:07:32 and thats only if the wind is in your direction and everything is fine Apr 11 19:08:06 _llll_, wel, you could use lynx to handle the HTML Apr 11 19:08:08 korhojoa :) Apr 11 19:09:03 fine. let's try --force-architecture then Apr 11 19:09:23 what is the equivalent of .bashrc for ash? .ashrc doesn't work. Apr 11 19:09:25 I know this is kinda C++ related, but I'm working on a SDL snake game for my n900, and for some reason whenever it touches wall (when it's supposed to be game-over) it does a segmentation error. Apr 11 19:09:25 http://pastebin.com/VEFB5m6X Apr 11 19:09:30 Why is that? (: Apr 11 19:09:32 lcuk: Public submissions are a case of someone doing "@mwkn" on Twitter. Apr 11 19:11:24 hi is it possible to get freoffice installed? Apr 11 19:11:28 so something like "generalantilles smells of elderberries @mwkn" would make it to the front page? Apr 11 19:11:42 damn you, apt. that's not right: 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 379 to remove and 4 not upgraded. Apr 11 19:11:59 apt is cool :) Apr 11 19:12:00 <_llll_> flux: hmm, is lynx installed? i guess could just launch microB or something Apr 11 19:12:15 damn the ones made the packages Apr 11 19:12:18 hehe Apr 11 19:12:22 korhojoa, :) Apr 11 19:12:22 lcuk, an editor has to review the public submissions. Apr 11 19:12:26 marcus_, perhaps you should try debugging it on a PC with valgrind Apr 11 19:12:34 lcuk, only authorized users' submissions get picked up by the bot. Apr 11 19:12:34 you know how to flash stuff Apr 11 19:12:49 yeah GeneralAntilles but cos its truthful it should be front paged instantly :p Apr 11 19:12:57 flux: never heard of that, but I'll take a look at it. Apr 11 19:14:24 what the hell. just looked at my rootfs. 14M available?! Apr 11 19:14:50 korhojoa: apt-get clean Apr 11 19:15:04 wow. 6 megs Apr 11 19:15:18 you added lenny packages list too didnt you Apr 11 19:15:42 never! Apr 11 19:16:09 you tried move script? Apr 11 19:16:30 * lcuk looks sideways Apr 11 19:16:45 ghostcube_maemo: yeah. i moved wireshark to opt Apr 11 19:16:47 flux: alias man 'dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.osso_browser" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:"http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?$1"' Apr 11 19:17:04 DocScrutinizer: that's pretty awesome Apr 11 19:18:18 :/dbus-send: Data item "bash" is badly formed Apr 11 19:18:32 you actually need to put that as a shell function Apr 11 19:18:35 <_llll_> alias cannot have arguments Apr 11 19:18:53 ooh, sorry. Was an instrument-flight Apr 11 19:19:29 I mean, alias man='stuff' should be correct? Apr 11 19:19:35 <_llll_> if you put it in a script, remeber to quote the $1 in case someone does "man "foo;rm -rf $HOME" Apr 11 19:19:40 man() { dbus-send ... } Apr 11 19:19:45 flux: man () {'dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.osso_browser" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:"http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?$1"'} Apr 11 19:19:56 docscrutinizer, almost ;) Apr 11 19:20:58 hmm, actually does the shell support defining shell functions that way Apr 11 19:21:15 i thinj Apr 11 19:21:24 bash 3 does Apr 11 19:21:26 syntax error. Apr 11 19:21:30 <_llll_> yeah, dnot think busybox does Apr 11 19:21:40 foo() { echo foo } -> syntax error Apr 11 19:21:50 nor does bash on mine Apr 11 19:21:52 does it have some other syntax? Apr 11 19:21:56 func foo {...} Apr 11 19:21:59 (from repo) Apr 11 19:22:05 <_llll_> tru function foo() { ...} but i doubt it works Apr 11 19:22:45 <_llll_> also variosu combinations of spaces/no spaces between foo () and { Apr 11 19:23:06 maybe it supports them only in files Apr 11 19:23:33 <_llll_> i rmemerb trying some script with functions and it didnt work Apr 11 19:23:46 <_llll_> but that script had lots of bashisms so cant remember why now Apr 11 19:23:57 function xxx { echo xXxX; } Apr 11 19:24:10 well, /etc/init.d/ is filled with functions using the foo() {\n ..\n} way and they work Apr 11 19:24:57 <_llll_> oh, no (), yay posix Apr 11 19:25:08 holy ... , new lehto post: 1150mhz, 0x48, TALK ABOUT OVERVOLTAGE?! Apr 11 19:25:23 wut? Apr 11 19:26:25 korhojoa: the last words lehto could write with his N900... Apr 11 19:26:40 haha Apr 11 19:26:44 oh wow, free space 8kb Apr 11 19:26:48 I need a new HDD Apr 11 19:26:54 <_llll_> what do these people run on their overclocked phones? Apr 11 19:27:05 SETI @ Home, obviously Apr 11 19:27:05 MicroB ;) Apr 11 19:27:24 crysis Apr 11 19:27:41 .-. Apr 11 19:27:47 fedora 12 :D Apr 11 19:27:57 _llll_: photoshop on wine on qemu Apr 11 19:28:02 anybody tried sip over vpn? Does the sip uri need a private address like 50@192.168.1.1 or should it refer to public address like 50@xx.dyndns.org Apr 11 19:28:33 i just have non-vpn sip to a fixed ip addr Apr 11 19:28:34 t-tan, while emulating x86, since wine doesn't run on ARM devices :) Apr 11 19:28:36 * Treibholz would prefer more RAM, than a faster CPU Apr 11 19:28:47 SWAP is used all the time Apr 11 19:29:07 <_llll_> i'd like to "overclock" the physical size of the screen Apr 11 19:29:09 MohammadAG: that's why I listed qemu Apr 11 19:29:10 openvpn works fine for email/browser but sip registration doesnt go through tunnel. And i am indeed using scripts from famous bug 1860. Apr 11 19:29:11 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1860 Won't pass through VPN Apr 11 19:29:17 * DocScrutinizer is amazed people get the more excited about ultimately bricking they N900 the fewer they understand about how it works. The N900 free fly app also got quite some attention, but it was too obvious which parameters would cause a break Apr 11 19:29:18 morning Apr 11 19:29:19 t-tan, oh thought it was some app :p Apr 11 19:29:44 how about all portable manufacturers refuse to implement javascript or flash, forever Apr 11 19:29:46 DocScrutinizer, overclocking is good, to a certain degree Apr 11 19:29:52 DocScrutinizer: free fly? Apr 11 19:29:54 (ok it does shorten lifetime) Apr 11 19:29:59 pupnik: that would be great! Apr 11 19:29:59 Anyone who is using a BT keyboard for N900? I want one but I'm not sure what ones are compatible. I currently have a freedom keyboard here, but I can't get it to work. Apr 11 19:30:05 korhojoa, it measures how much you can throw the N900 Apr 11 19:30:06 yeah to 800 mhz should work Apr 11 19:30:07 DocScrutinizer: ah, the throwing one? Apr 11 19:30:27 * DocScrutinizer has other means to shorten lifetime. Preferrably his own :-P Apr 11 19:30:28 we can dream, Treibholz Apr 11 19:30:32 ghostcube_maemo, any frequency should work, but it will shorten lifetime Apr 11 19:30:49 DocScrutinizer, well you shortened your lifetime *ahem* :P Apr 11 19:30:53 pupnik: even on my netbook it's a pain Apr 11 19:30:57 your N900's lifetime* Apr 11 19:31:03 pupnik: how would i watch my porn on n900? Apr 11 19:31:11 yeah but isnt it by factory testet for this arm that 800 work ok? Apr 11 19:31:12 pupnik: without flash Apr 11 19:31:14 jacekowski: zooporn? Apr 11 19:31:18 hmm. the xlv ideal kernel should not shorten lifetime if it's not overclocking, right? Apr 11 19:31:22 jacekowski: use a stand. Apr 11 19:31:31 <_llll_> jacekowski: that's "overcoking", not "overclocking" Apr 11 19:31:35 ghostcube_maemo, no, OC damage is HW damage Apr 11 19:31:35 <_llll_> err, overcokcing Apr 11 19:31:41 <_llll_> bah, cant type Apr 11 19:31:49 korhojoa: nope. if you set max to 600 you're totally safe Apr 11 19:32:19 ghostcube_maemo, it's rated for 600MHz and not fulltime Apr 11 19:32:20 when does the maximum hz is taken into use? Apr 11 19:32:21 t-tan, wouldn't that cause his N900 to run slower than stock? Apr 11 19:32:33 or would it still be overclocked before pmconfig is run? Apr 11 19:32:35 t-tan: no. Apr 11 19:32:38 (lower voltage at 600 max) Apr 11 19:32:52 t-tan: If it goes at 600MHz - it goes at 600MHz - voltage is irrelevant. Apr 11 19:32:56 sure i know it teps from 250 to 600 Apr 11 19:32:59 (othe than to power consumption) Apr 11 19:33:03 i see it in conky Apr 11 19:33:08 ghostcube_maemo, even the speedbinned OMAP3530s are only rated for 720MHz Apr 11 19:33:27 hmm ok Apr 11 19:33:49 damn i killed the clip for my n900 case Apr 11 19:33:53 SpeedEvil: max=limit, not the minimum. it the same limit the stock has Apr 11 19:33:55 grml Apr 11 19:34:13 but the good thing is that next beagleboard (beagleXM) will not use omap3530 ;D Apr 11 19:34:54 where can i get the missing qt libs for koffice Apr 11 19:36:19 SpeedEvil: so it doesn't matter what voltage it uses if it's still going too fast for too long? Apr 11 19:36:43 ghostcube_maemo, wait for pr1.2 Apr 11 19:37:02 ghostcube_maemo: release on 12 November Apr 11 19:37:08 libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those? Apr 11 19:37:23 FIQ, PR1.2 Apr 11 19:37:30 FIQ: inside of nokia Apr 11 19:37:42 hrw, what's it using? Apr 11 19:37:48 * MohammadAG infiltrates Nokia HQ Apr 11 19:37:51 FIQ: if you will sell your soul and 60% of internal organs then you may get it next week Apr 11 19:38:01 GAN900: DM37xx iirc Apr 11 19:38:08 "may" lol Apr 11 19:38:19 ok Apr 11 19:38:23 GAN900: is this a secret or will Nokia announce officially the cpu-clockspeed tests implemented in maemo.org this weekend? And how will it transfer the device ser#, or does it rely on IP? Apr 11 19:38:52 korhojoa, SpeedEvil: OPP are relevant according to TI, not frequency Apr 11 19:39:19 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=596274&postcount=937 Apr 11 19:39:34 cat /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input Apr 11 19:39:35 41 Apr 11 19:39:41 normal temp? Apr 11 19:39:55 DocScrutinizer, I believe they'll use it for targetting the cruise missiles. Apr 11 19:39:57 the exact opposite of normal Apr 11 19:40:05 pupnik, mine idles at 13 Apr 11 19:40:07 or 12 Apr 11 19:40:21 mien says 17 Apr 11 19:40:31 14 Apr 11 19:40:32 GAN900: sure. Or simply for warranty purposes Apr 11 19:41:46 i get -40 Apr 11 19:42:01 the computer brain electro-god on the other side has been programming me heavily this week. but it keeps forgetting the traces it leaves. 41 degrees! Apr 11 19:42:11 spliffy: take it out of the CO2 bath Apr 11 19:42:18 lol Apr 11 19:42:53 it's on my table Apr 11 19:42:55 spliffy: are you in Siberia? Apr 11 19:43:19 no, im in europe Apr 11 19:43:34 7 degrees celsius outside.. but i'm at home Apr 11 19:43:37 the -40 is actually 40 Apr 11 19:43:43 idk why it says that sometimes Apr 11 19:43:56 (it could be +40, not sure) Apr 11 19:44:37 t-tan: it's ~0 in Siberia now. Apr 11 19:44:50 they are trying to communicate to us Apr 11 19:45:10 modulating the +/- signs? Apr 11 19:45:11 is there a way to check which voltage you're at? Apr 11 19:45:18 yes Apr 11 19:45:38 damn Apr 11 19:45:39 /dev/sda5 10531272 9960264 36044 100% / Apr 11 19:46:19 pupnik: do you know how to do that then? if so, could you share? Apr 11 19:46:25 i exposed it to some heat, now it's at 21 Apr 11 19:47:07 spliffy: what did you do? Apr 11 19:47:16 take it out from a vaccuum? Apr 11 19:47:29 held it over his cig perhaps Apr 11 19:47:32 i didn't do anytho nspecial Apr 11 19:48:00 s/anytho n/anything / Apr 11 19:48:00 spliffy meant: i didn't do anything special Apr 11 19:48:03 korhojoa: if have the ideal kernel: modprobe bq27x00_battery; cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/voltage_now Apr 11 19:48:52 oh and i don't oc Apr 11 19:50:03 GAN900: I thought it would have been fair to announce the clockfreq survey to OC fanboys. But probably the 'reduce service costs' aspect took precedence - I'd not be surprised if Nokia actually leaked/prodded the OC-kernel to massively cut number of accepted RMA Apr 11 19:50:24 DocScrutinizer, I have no idea what you're talking about. ;) Apr 11 19:51:08 GeneralAntilles: oops sorry, forgot we're not supposed to discuss it in public Apr 11 19:51:13 lol Apr 11 19:51:39 DocScrutinizer: how do you know about the cheque in my mailbox? Apr 11 19:52:33 t-tan: I was one of the guys plotting the concept Apr 11 19:52:42 oops, rm -rf */memory/* Apr 11 19:53:15 gone daddy gone (your love is gone) Apr 11 19:59:16 clockspeed test seems to slow down access to http://talk.maemo.org as well as repository update for me Apr 11 19:59:29 but only slightly Apr 11 20:04:21 How do I quit OpenArena on the n900? o.o Apr 11 20:04:46 8seconds power button hold ;-P Apr 11 20:04:50 i say symbian is lookin nice and brushed up Apr 11 20:05:06 srsly?! Apr 11 20:05:07 o.o Apr 11 20:05:20 marcus_: just kidding, no idea Apr 11 20:05:48 marcus_: I'm in a somewhat sarcastic mood, sorry Apr 11 20:06:49 I never got Symbian to an uptime of 5 days! Apr 11 20:06:58 mm Apr 11 20:07:02 OC time! Apr 11 20:07:07 Good day Apr 11 20:07:14 Treibholz, ? symbian is easy to hold up Apr 11 20:07:16 Treibholz: I got much longer times with S60 then week Apr 11 20:07:32 marcus_: still a short powerbutton push should get you the menu with "stop current task" maybe Apr 11 20:07:59 I had a Siemens-SX1, a Nokia e61 and an e61i, all were damn unstable. Apr 11 20:08:02 DocScrutinizer: powerkey menu is never granted to appear after power key press Apr 11 20:08:07 Treibholz: I have e66 Apr 11 20:08:18 corecode: what are the settings you're working with? Apr 11 20:08:44 hrw: that's why I added 'maybe' Apr 11 20:09:13 dsster: i'm gonna first patch up the kernel Apr 11 20:09:25 dsster: and then try and understand what these different voltages mean Apr 11 20:09:36 marcus_, = button Apr 11 20:09:45 DocScrutinizer, not in the Quake 3 engine Apr 11 20:10:03 dsster: then i'll look into specifying a maximum time on the highest setting Apr 11 20:10:23 dsster: because i don't want to fry my cpu on some runaway process Apr 11 20:10:32 o.O @ corecode: You're going to play with volgate? Be careful bud Apr 11 20:10:42 dsster: but likely i'll start maybe with 800MHz Apr 11 20:10:45 volgate? Apr 11 20:10:55 voltage* :p Apr 11 20:11:00 of course Apr 11 20:11:22 yeah 800mhz is a safe bet. I think should work on stock voltage though Apr 11 20:11:24 reduce voltage for conserving energy Apr 11 20:12:26 dsster: WHAT is a 'safe bet'?? How'd you come to state such things? Apr 11 20:12:48 From the forums i've read 800 mhz is easy to reach with no problems Apr 11 20:12:56 * MohammadAG lols Apr 11 20:12:58 corecode: what voltage are you attempting? Apr 11 20:13:20 dsster, the forums also say you should stay alive if you fall 100 feet Apr 11 20:13:26 dsster: take an axe. It's even easier and more reliable in result Apr 11 20:13:58 If you don't like overclocking go join # #maemoPleaseDontDiscussOverclocking Apr 11 20:14:14 the n900 is not slow because of its CPU, it's slow because it doesn't have enough RAM. Apr 11 20:14:24 oh jesus Apr 11 20:14:30 what is wrong with you people Apr 11 20:14:47 dsster: if you like spreading BS as given facts, then I'll happily help you to go anywhere Apr 11 20:14:52 do you drive in a car with a helmet on? Apr 11 20:15:02 don't you have a life? Apr 11 20:15:09 corecode: no, but with a seatbelt. Apr 11 20:16:22 i read not only in forum about the 800 mhz thing, in german it magazines too so anything must be true with this. Apr 11 20:18:21 Treibholz: +1 Apr 11 20:18:58 i'm sick of this constant FUD regarding CPU lifetime Apr 11 20:19:26 each time somebody says OC, millions of people scream OH NOES TEH WORLD WILL END! Apr 11 20:19:27 corecode, actually, he's right, you're wrong Apr 11 20:19:36 how am i wrong? Apr 11 20:19:47 by having an opinion? Apr 11 20:19:50 no Apr 11 20:19:53 that can hardly be wrong Apr 11 20:20:00 I didn't say that Apr 11 20:20:10 I have to tell one thing: I am tired of that OC talks Apr 11 20:20:26 BTW I have my N900 overclocked, but I know lifetime is less than a year now (at 800) Apr 11 20:20:31 basically each device now can be OC - nevermind which cpu it has Apr 11 20:20:35 how do you know that? Apr 11 20:20:39 I read on a thousand sites Man never reached the moon, so it MUST be true Apr 11 20:20:53 corecode, it's 10 years at 500, 5 years at 550, do the maths Apr 11 20:20:53 WTF?? Apr 11 20:21:03 dont start a moonlanding bash Apr 11 20:21:06 :) Apr 11 20:21:07 sigh. What I am tired off is the stupid importance people give to overclocking. it's completely useless. Apr 11 20:21:09 where did you get these numbers? Apr 11 20:21:20 me too, everytime I look in here, somebody is talking about overclocking... Apr 11 20:21:24 corecode, Igor Apr 11 20:21:37 and igor knows that how? Apr 11 20:21:39 well someone (a trusted person - not sure who he was) posted them here Apr 11 20:21:43 tomorrow I will overclock my fridge Apr 11 20:21:45 corecode, he's a Nokia engineer Apr 11 20:21:49 I don't think anyone knows what the lifetime will *actually* be. Apr 11 20:21:53 hrw: it will freeze your stuff 0,5% faster!!! Apr 11 20:22:01 dmj726_n900: tanks! Apr 11 20:22:05 s/,/. (damn dot comma) Apr 11 20:22:15 they can give reasonable guesses Apr 11 20:22:32 javispedro: 0.5 contra 0,5 depends on regional settings. for me 0,5 is proper ;D Apr 11 20:22:42 how do you set a 128bit NEON register? Apr 11 20:22:42 corecode: Igor Stoppa is one of the senior, principal, hardware engineers of the 770, N8x0 and N900 devies. Apr 11 20:22:44 hrw: me too :) Apr 11 20:22:52 okay Apr 11 20:22:52 I can see how to set a lane, but not all lanes Apr 11 20:22:59 corecode: 800 is actually a no-go frequency. it doesn't have the appropriate divider Apr 11 20:23:02 based on what the chip is rated to last and the proportional decrease on average at a given voltage and clockspeed. Apr 11 20:23:08 ghostcube_maemo: don't claim a high number of citations of a incorrect fact makes it any more correct or honorable Apr 11 20:23:13 corecode: i.e. he knows of what he speaks. More than some forum dude who says "well, *mine's* fine so why did Nokia choose 600MHz, it's soooo slooooow." Apr 11 20:23:23 Jaffa: I love how you put that in mwkn, "engineer extraordinaire" :) Apr 11 20:23:29 Jaffa: yes, of course Apr 11 20:24:03 igors comment on OC: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=603833&postcount=66 Apr 11 20:24:08 corecode: Sorry, it's just the overclocking thread seems to think a sample size of about a dozen, over 3 days, equates to a proper soak test across hundreds of devices. Apr 11 20:24:15 javispedro: Seems apt ;-) Apr 11 20:24:29 heh Apr 11 20:24:34 I guess us hardware enthusiasts can't enjoy overclocking becuase the engineer sad it's a bad thing to do Apr 11 20:24:39 that said, a few weeks of "mine is fine" does not equal "it will work for the desired lifetime" Apr 11 20:24:45 but really, i still don't understand how the frequency (without changing the voltage) would influence the lifetime, apart from heat issues Apr 11 20:25:02 Jaffa: that thread is just major pain Apr 11 20:25:04 oh, god. Apr 11 20:25:05 corecode: don't even ask just follow instructions Apr 11 20:25:14 oh, god again. Apr 11 20:25:17 hehe Apr 11 20:25:20 corecode it does. Apr 11 20:25:36 anyways, where would i find the kernel source nokia is using, in a neat little repo? Apr 11 20:25:50 a computer engineer is telling you thins. Apr 11 20:25:53 because with the debian sources i just get one huge diff Apr 11 20:25:56 corecode: well, you could tinker a fan in your device... Apr 11 20:26:17 Treibholz: i said, apart from heat issues Apr 11 20:26:25 cooling board for N900 Apr 11 20:26:29 :D Apr 11 20:26:30 corecode: heat IS killing hardware. Apr 11 20:26:42 Treibholz: yes, yes Apr 11 20:26:46 Treibholz: apart from heat Apr 11 20:26:51 Home taping is killing music! Apr 11 20:26:57 also, with things like clockspeed, it's actually good that companies are somewhat conservative. Apr 11 20:27:03 and michael jackson! Apr 11 20:27:03 corecode: wikipedia - see electromigration Apr 11 20:27:14 SpeedEvil: I haven't use da tape in about 10years... Apr 11 20:27:35 SpeedEvil: I haven't used a tape in about 10 years... Apr 11 20:27:46 hmm tapes will live longer than all of our damn mp3 Apr 11 20:28:03 :) Apr 11 20:28:11 ghostcube_maemo: raid5 out of tapes? Apr 11 20:28:17 interessting... Apr 11 20:28:17 heh Apr 11 20:28:35 that could work. Apr 11 20:28:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGDRrkaRgU Apr 11 20:29:12 hugs his vinyls Apr 11 20:29:15 :) Apr 11 20:30:13 DocScrutinizer: ah, birthday present? :) Apr 11 20:30:46 DocScrutinizer: joking, thanks. Apr 11 20:31:16 just a comment on 'oh god again' Apr 11 20:31:32 :) Apr 11 20:31:38 you know I get tired of arguing Apr 11 20:32:42 SpeedEvil: yea, sorry, still can't find a reference to frequency, just to heat and current density Apr 11 20:33:25 current density is a first order function of frequency, on some rails Apr 11 20:33:40 aha Apr 11 20:33:50 aha, free software zealot required in tmo thread. Apr 11 20:34:16 ah no, he already came :) Apr 11 20:34:33 DocScrutinizer: how so? Apr 11 20:35:02 corecode: current is approximately proportional to frequency * voltage ^2 Apr 11 20:35:23 huh? Apr 11 20:35:26 corecode: and the area is set by the physical area of some critical path in the chip Apr 11 20:35:31 which frequency are we talking about Apr 11 20:35:39 cock frequency. Apr 11 20:36:03 ölol Apr 11 20:36:15 lol Apr 11 20:36:33 alright, maybe we should take this to ##electronics Apr 11 20:36:51 because it is not clear to me how current is proportional to frequency Apr 11 20:37:25 no, you should take this to TI-EE and Chip Design department, which came up with the numbers Apr 11 20:37:54 We are speculating as to the reason. Apr 11 20:38:25 It could vary from all chips will die at 8000 hours +-1000 hours if overclocked to 720MHz. Apr 11 20:38:35 To no chips die ever, and it's a marketing thing. Apr 11 20:38:40 hello Apr 11 20:38:59 Unless you have a very good contact at TI - you will never know. Apr 11 20:39:02 corecode: just as much for your enlightening: clock is switching parasitary capacitors in a chip. Charging a capacitor more frequently needs more current obviously Apr 11 20:39:04 (until devices start failing) Apr 11 20:39:05 ok just got the phone since friday ... just started to test with it :P Apr 11 20:39:26 where can i find all the goodies? like for example extra profiles? Apr 11 20:39:40 DocScrutinizer: no Apr 11 20:39:54 DocScrutinizer: it needs more energy, not more current Apr 11 20:40:01 DocScrutinizer: it just needs the same current more often Apr 11 20:40:07 and is it possible to put the 'messages' icon also in the phone screen? Apr 11 20:40:31 Gh0sty: as an shortcut Apr 11 20:40:45 corecode: you're mislead - things are not ideal. In real life, it's not quite so discrete as that. Apr 11 20:41:04 corecode: and on lines averaging the pulses due to *their* parasitary capacitance to die it will result in a higher avrg current Apr 11 20:41:07 corecode: the current flows tend to blur into one another Apr 11 20:41:26 ghostcube_maemo: how then? Apr 11 20:41:45 click on screen to get desktop meu Apr 11 20:41:48 menu Apr 11 20:41:56 and there add shortcut Apr 11 20:42:01 Gh0sty: tap background, tap gears top right, select add shortcut, select messages, select done Apr 11 20:42:13 seems you can only have one shortcut tho Apr 11 20:42:19 not on multiple screens Apr 11 20:42:28 not if you clone the .desktop file Apr 11 20:42:39 Gh0sty: remember to overclock it to 1100 mhz though. I mean, you don't want to be stuck at 600. Apr 11 20:42:44 corecode: hmm i dont have the gears in the phone screen? Apr 11 20:42:57 Gh0sty: tap background first Apr 11 20:42:57 Gh0sty: tap the desktop background Apr 11 20:43:05 * noobmonk3y waves :D Apr 11 20:43:07 Gh0sty, just hold an empty area on the desktop Apr 11 20:43:11 * MohammadAG waves back Apr 11 20:43:13 korhojoa: warning! Apr 11 20:43:13 hi noobmonk3y Apr 11 20:43:16 just in case of mods: joke. Apr 11 20:43:19 hey alls :D Apr 11 20:43:22 hey ghostcube_maemo Apr 11 20:43:29 and there it is Apr 11 20:43:52 hmm but in the phone screen i only have the recent caller list, no empty background? :/ Apr 11 20:44:14 the free space between stuff Apr 11 20:44:22 there's the buttons and caller list Apr 11 20:44:30 Gh0sty, go back to the desktop Apr 11 20:44:31 tap the empty space imbetween for example Apr 11 20:44:52 daym. need to charbe my keyboard. well. i guess that means it's time to go to sleep. Apr 11 20:45:25 there is no space in between, they are underneath eachother :/ Apr 11 20:45:28 does anyone make a Mini/MicroSD card with RAM+flash? Apr 11 20:45:31 unless i have an old version ? :p Apr 11 20:45:44 luke-jr: they all have RAM Apr 11 20:45:48 or that 1 pixel? :p Apr 11 20:45:57 SpeedEvil: really? in any case, I meant usable as a block device Apr 11 20:46:03 luke-jr: it's just it's only a eraseblock or two in size, and it is not exposed to the user Apr 11 20:46:15 SpeedEvil: think /tmp :) Apr 11 20:46:38 yeah - would be nice Apr 11 20:46:42 however - Apr 11 20:47:04 http://www.nickscipio.com/pod/2010/02/05/bunny-stocking/ Apr 11 20:47:06 err Apr 11 20:47:08 I'm looking for the NEON intrinsic equivalent of SSE's _mm_set_ps() Apr 11 20:47:08 not that Apr 11 20:47:12 (not worksafe) Apr 11 20:47:13 anyone knows what it is? Apr 11 20:47:23 would be nice if Nokia ported Linux to N8x0 like they advertise :p Apr 11 20:47:25 Gh0sty: maybe read this in the manual its good described there with pic Apr 11 20:47:27 then I could use ramzswap Apr 11 20:47:35 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 Apr 11 20:47:38 that Apr 11 20:47:46 you can see there is very little space in a microSD Apr 11 20:48:27 anyone can suggest a theme ? Apr 11 20:48:56 Pirate monkeys. Apr 11 20:49:59 Space pirate orangutans Apr 11 20:50:46 o.O Apr 11 20:53:28 Nazi Space Pirate Orangutans Apr 11 20:53:36 2.0 Apr 11 20:56:11 Treibholz: wär in nem de chan ein lebenslanger ban Apr 11 20:56:17 ;) Apr 11 20:56:51 patience has a limit: it is a month waiting to be solved the bug 7764 Apr 11 20:56:52 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7764 WPA-EAP authentication fails with *any* expired certificate Apr 11 20:57:04 why no one wants to fix it? Apr 11 20:57:22 Otacon22: lucky you I had to wait a year and a half. Apr 11 20:57:30 Otacon22: but then I had coding experience so I coded my workaround Apr 11 20:57:39 i cannot connect to my university wifi network since when i've buyed my N900 Apr 11 21:00:12 The iPad really, really needs a kickstand Apr 11 21:00:22 It needs a kick Apr 11 21:00:27 iPad + kickstand reference reminds javispedro of ... Apr 11 21:00:30 a stand to put it on so you can kick it better? Apr 11 21:00:30 You have to be holding it constantly if you want a good angle on the screen. Apr 11 21:00:40 like a tee for golf balls Apr 11 21:01:04 luke-jr: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47479 - for ramzswap ;) Apr 11 21:01:48 Otacon22: because that's not a bug really Apr 11 21:01:59 it's an application bug Apr 11 21:02:02 so it is a bug. Apr 11 21:02:13 please don't say thing that are not right Apr 11 21:02:14 Otacon22: that it refuses to authenticate using invalid certificate? Apr 11 21:02:15 javispedro: lol Apr 11 21:02:16 b-man: looks liek N900 Apr 11 21:02:18 jacekowski: that one is a bug (believe me I've been monitoring wpa ones) Apr 11 21:02:43 no. The WPA2 EAP TLS auth fail with any certificate. Apr 11 21:02:46 jacekowski: I do know there are quite a few that are not bugs (psk key lens, override invalid certificate requests... etc.) but that one is a bug. Apr 11 21:02:48 not invalid one Apr 11 21:02:53 but also a valid one Apr 11 21:03:42 mhm Apr 11 21:03:43 oh Apr 11 21:03:54 well, can't you just remove that certificate from keyring? Apr 11 21:04:14 not from the ui, but I guess yes. Apr 11 21:12:37 oh jesus i hope they don't build hardware like they write kernel code Apr 11 21:12:50 they build worse hardware Apr 11 21:13:53 there must be reason why most stuff is closed-source.... Apr 11 21:14:01 er Apr 11 21:14:07 It's not even close to most Apr 11 21:14:34 hardware, hardware! Apr 11 21:14:47 But the reasons are usually: differentiation, trade secrets, legacy or 3rd party. Apr 11 21:14:58 stuff that matters to access important hw components Apr 11 21:15:07 yes! nno! stop it! Apr 11 21:15:29 i'm just wondering what would happen if somebody would reverse it Apr 11 21:15:47 GAN900: legacy is reason used when the source plain sucks ;P Apr 11 21:16:05 well, yeah Apr 11 21:16:06 But it's still a reason Apr 11 21:16:50 *after watching mbx kmod source code* definitely yes :) Apr 11 21:17:06 jacekowski: what do you want to RE? it's all disclosed already, except cellmo Apr 11 21:17:19 and power managment Apr 11 21:17:24 nah Apr 11 21:17:27 you're asking the right people :) Apr 11 21:18:43 so where is a code for bme_RX-51? Apr 11 21:18:47 jacekowski: power management is TI BQ24150, BQ27200, and TWL4030 Apr 11 21:18:52 DocScrutinizer: isn't cellmod also pretty much disclosed (ofono worked iirc) Apr 11 21:18:57 *cellmo Apr 11 21:19:33 javispedro: well the lowlevel access to the modem probably isn't though I never had a close look at it Apr 11 21:20:43 it does seem to talk below the at layer at least Apr 11 21:20:47 I just know it's a I2C interface and we don't know the registers inside the modem chipset Apr 11 21:21:05 javispedro: yep exactly Apr 11 21:21:17 I2C direct register access Apr 11 21:21:32 * javispedro has a quick look at ofono.. Apr 11 21:21:34 not much use in RE that Apr 11 21:22:01 without decent datasheets for the register adresses and functions Apr 11 21:22:05 isimodem is the backend the n900 ofono uses Apr 11 21:22:22 camera would be nice to RE Apr 11 21:22:25 and replace Apr 11 21:22:37 aah yes, another one Apr 11 21:22:37 (the sw, not the hw) Apr 11 21:22:50 Camera sucks in a fair few ways. Apr 11 21:23:21 though there probably cam manuf IP algo comes to stop Nokia from ever disclosing it Apr 11 21:23:25 Won't save to vfat - will sometimes not take pictures if it can't get a GPS fix - GPS position inaccurate Apr 11 21:23:44 does not integrate well with flashlight Apr 11 21:23:59 won't save to vfat? :P Apr 11 21:24:02 aaah you're talking bout the UI Apr 11 21:24:05 s/ext3 ? Apr 11 21:24:14 won't save to not vfat Apr 11 21:24:19 rather Apr 11 21:24:25 and I thought that'S been fixed Apr 11 21:24:28 me too Apr 11 21:24:35 In 1.1.1? Apr 11 21:24:42 iirc it had to do with case sensitiveness AND permissions Apr 11 21:24:44 K, never tried it. Apr 11 21:24:46 erhhm yes Apr 11 21:24:57 javispedro: yep Apr 11 21:25:12 But yes - lowlevel too would be interesting from a number of perspsectives Apr 11 21:25:18 SpeedEvil: where did you find the omap3430 datasheet? Apr 11 21:25:24 ebay Apr 11 21:25:29 Or google. Apr 11 21:25:34 a root daemon creating a dir, and user process trying to write to it Apr 11 21:25:36 you found the datasheet??? Apr 11 21:25:39 or the trm? Apr 11 21:25:41 err Apr 11 21:25:51 ebay? Apr 11 21:25:53 I'm unsure - ... Apr 11 21:26:06 corecode: there are half a dozen Apr 11 21:26:18 the trm/technical manual is public, the datasheet isn't. I didn't find the 3430 one. Apr 11 21:26:24 ah Apr 11 21:26:45 http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf Apr 11 21:26:48 i'm just interested in what the smartreflex voltage points mean Apr 11 21:26:51 for example Apr 11 21:26:52 that's 3530 trm Apr 11 21:27:06 er no.. sorry Apr 11 21:27:21 s/trm/datasheet Apr 11 21:27:56 3530 trm, 3530 datasheet: public. Apr 11 21:28:03 3430 trm: public, SWPU223A_FinalEPDF_03_17_2010.pdf Apr 11 21:28:08 3430 datasheet: ???' Apr 11 21:28:20 yea, what's up with that? Apr 11 21:28:33 probably requires nda Apr 11 21:28:46 hm. Apr 11 21:32:46 has anyone ever used NEON intrinsics? Apr 11 21:33:00 I'm looking for the NEON intrinsic equivalent of SSE's _mm_set_ps() Apr 11 21:34:36 isn't that a plain load? Apr 11 21:35:16 on arm it would be implemented as a neon ldm at least. Apr 11 21:37:29 thing is, _mm_set_ps() allows me to set all 4 lanes in one line Apr 11 21:37:51 a load would make me create an aligned const variable then use the appropriate load intrinsic Apr 11 21:40:19 it makes /me glad to see the way #maemo has reverted to a nice channel for technical questions :) Apr 11 21:41:10 it must be a temporary glitch :P Apr 11 21:41:13 lardman, am I asking at the wrong place? Apr 11 21:41:19 no not at all Apr 11 21:41:33 I'm really excited to work on NEON Apr 11 21:41:33 and I'm sorry that I don't know anything about NEON asm Apr 11 21:41:44 this is the only docs I have - http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-NEON-Intrinsics.html Apr 11 21:41:47 the issue is not about asm, but intrinsics Apr 11 21:42:01 and all I know is that they suck, but since you have a more recent compiler, dunno. Apr 11 21:42:07 I think what I want is vld1q_f32 but it takes a pointer Apr 11 21:42:28 javispedro, I use my own compiler since GCC 4.2.1 ICEs when optimizing NEON (-O2) Apr 11 21:42:42 yeah, I still remember that discussion Apr 11 21:43:06 note that the net result is that 4.2 was never assumed to support intrinsics :P Apr 11 21:43:52 how much do they abstract the underlying asm? Apr 11 21:43:54 the headers are there Apr 11 21:44:03 lardman, not much, that's a good thing I think Apr 11 21:44:20 the intrinsics almost map 1:1 to instructions Apr 11 21:44:21 LiraNuna: since you exactly know what you want, why you don't scrub the headers for functions accepting 4 floats? Apr 11 21:44:29 indeed, but then why not just write in pure asm and skip the intrinsics? Apr 11 21:44:30 javispedro, because it doesn't exist :( Apr 11 21:44:36 then it doesn't exist Apr 11 21:45:16 LiraNuna: you said it yourself. they mostly map 1:1 to neon opcodes, and there can't be a "4 float loading opcode" for obvious reasons Apr 11 21:45:37 so in fact you want here an intrinsic doing "something more" which is to put stuff into .rodata with proper alignment and issue an ldm instruction Apr 11 21:45:52 javispedro, thing is, in SSE _mm_set_ps doesn't have an opcode, and the compiler simply uses movaps from a const memory location Apr 11 21:46:08 see my point then :) Apr 11 21:46:59 http://pastie.org/private/jwxdfug13sy1gptsupfdua Apr 11 21:47:02 ugly ugly code Apr 11 21:47:18 macroize Apr 11 21:47:35 * LiraNuna wants C++0x Apr 11 21:47:45 vld1q_f32({1, 2, 3, 4}); Apr 11 21:47:46 :( Apr 11 21:48:27 er.. Apr 11 21:48:36 float32x4_t vec = { 1, 2, 3, 4 } seems to work Apr 11 21:48:54 o_O Apr 11 21:49:16 well what do you know Apr 11 21:49:19 * LiraNuna dies Apr 11 21:50:07 now for shuffles Apr 11 21:51:30 uh, for that gcc 4.2 generates two slow vmovs Apr 11 21:51:58 yeah since you can't optimize it without an ICE Apr 11 21:54:20 * LiraNuna -save-temps Apr 11 21:56:17 javispedro, looks good here Apr 11 21:56:32 loads a pointer to const data and Apr 11 21:57:48 vldr Apr 11 21:58:03 fine Apr 11 21:58:33 you sound unpleased Apr 11 21:59:45 * DocScrutinizer is actually highly pleased, like lardman Apr 11 21:59:55 naa, just bored :) Apr 11 22:00:09 you're just jealous 'cause I can use GCC 4.4.3 :3 Apr 11 22:00:19 ;P Apr 11 22:00:29 float32x4_t vec = { 1, 2, 3, 4 }; vec2 = vmulq_f32(vec, vec); Apr 11 22:00:32 this one works with 4.2 Apr 11 22:00:38 can you -O2 Apr 11 22:00:40 but is to be expected since the failing part is not invoked at all Apr 11 22:00:41 yes Apr 11 22:00:53 oh, it doesn't even use it though Apr 11 22:00:55 it then does as you said, creates an .ltorg and a vld Apr 11 22:00:57 try printing it Apr 11 22:01:10 can I find the n900 default theme somewhere and use it for standard gtk apps on a desktop? Apr 11 22:01:12 two vldr actually Apr 11 22:01:12 I take it something inside OMAP knows how to handle 4dimensional vectors? Apr 11 22:01:20 or even hildon apps on a desktop Apr 11 22:01:27 it knows how to manipulate space time Apr 11 22:01:32 DocScrutinizer, it's called NEON, and it's a part of the Cortex-A8 Apr 11 22:01:42 DocScrutinizer: it's a SSE wannabe Apr 11 22:01:45 that's friggin awesome Apr 11 22:01:57 it's not really a wannabe, it seems better than SSE in theory Apr 11 22:01:59 (or actually SSE is a NEON wannabe) Apr 11 22:02:02 depends on who you ask :) Apr 11 22:02:04 :D Apr 11 22:02:16 well, SSE came before NEON, so Apr 11 22:02:17 :( Apr 11 22:02:32 two vldr actually Apr 11 22:02:34 at least it's easier to memorize than SSE which resembles x86 itself in evolution an design Apr 11 22:02:38 I think that's because the regs are 64bit Apr 11 22:02:47 there's no way to address 128bit directly, it seems Apr 11 22:03:08 javispedro, SSE is not very x86ish Apr 11 22:03:19 movaps - mov aligned parallel scalar Apr 11 22:03:23 addaps - add aligned parallel scalar Apr 11 22:03:25 etc etc Apr 11 22:03:29 LiraNuna: use vld1, it can load up to 256 bits of data with a single instruction Apr 11 22:03:48 ssvb, I did Apr 11 22:03:52 http://pastie.org/private/jwxdfug13sy1gptsupfdua Apr 11 22:04:16 Hey all.. have posted a thread in talk.maemo about (what I believe is) my bricked N900.. Apr 11 22:04:25 ssvb, code seems massier Apr 11 22:04:25 LiraNuna: ugh, these are intrinsics Apr 11 22:04:38 ssvb, so...? Apr 11 22:04:44 I like portable code Apr 11 22:05:07 LiraNuna: so it's a compiler fault, not neon Apr 11 22:05:16 dandiesel, N900s don't brick Apr 11 22:05:16 hmm, stmia+vld1.32 vs. vldr x2 Apr 11 22:05:47 LiraNuna: using aligned vld1 instructions you can load 128-bits of data per cycle, which is nice Apr 11 22:05:50 @MohammadAG i've got a blank screen , non responsive Apr 11 22:05:51 LiraNuna: i mean that it's been extended and extended and extended... like x86. neon seemingly looks nicer. Apr 11 22:06:02 javispedro, ah, I see Apr 11 22:06:16 dandiesel, did you remove the battery and hold down the power button? Apr 11 22:06:19 ssvb, aligned to what? Apr 11 22:06:37 LiraNuna: aligned at 128-bit boundary (16 bytes) Apr 11 22:06:45 like SSE, I see Apr 11 22:06:49 btw, while googling, http://hardwarebug.org/2008/12/31/arm-neon-memory-hazards/ Apr 11 22:06:53 have removed battery, here are the steps i've taken so far : http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=605325#post605325 Apr 11 22:07:17 javispedro: that's for mixing arm and neon Apr 11 22:07:35 yeah, I read it :) Apr 11 22:08:16 Can't seem to get flasher to recognize the n900 when it's connected to USB in update mode Apr 11 22:09:01 that trm does not seem to talk about how to configure the actual values of the voltage regulation Apr 11 22:09:21 yeah, that's part of the datasheet. Apr 11 22:09:37 Can't seem to get flasher to recognize the n900 when it's connected to USB in update mode Apr 11 22:09:43 javispedro: heh Apr 11 22:09:44 see the 3530 trm vs datasheet to get an idea Apr 11 22:10:12 so people who tweak the voltage controller operate in the dark? Apr 11 22:10:36 the "how" should be in the trm, and it's also in the kernel Apr 11 22:10:49 yea, but not the what Apr 11 22:10:50 the "why" isn't. Apr 11 22:10:58 or the what :) Apr 11 22:11:09 0x30 is 1.2 volt, says the kernel Apr 11 22:11:22 but how much you need for what and what 0x2f would be... Apr 11 22:11:27 Can anyone help..? Thought this would be the best place to check. Apr 11 22:11:34 ssvb, http://pastie.org/private/vgjydrbadleozgtxhimvnq Apr 11 22:12:49 dandiesel: Windows? Apr 11 22:13:32 ssvb, I think two vldr's are actually better if data is in .text Apr 11 22:13:40 ARM is RISC, isn't it Apr 11 22:14:03 windows 7 64 bit Apr 11 22:14:21 dandiesel: I've never got the Windows flasher to work Apr 11 22:14:33 Have tried running flasher in 32bit xp compatibility mode, in administrator mode etc.. 'Suitable USB device not found'. Apr 11 22:14:36 Ah interesting Apr 11 22:14:40 dandiesel: 32bit XP, and I know what I'm doing Apr 11 22:15:00 dandiesel: I'd suggest booting a Linux LiveCD and using the Linux flasher, works everytime Apr 11 22:15:04 "I know what I'm doing" lines always scare me Apr 11 22:15:10 lol Apr 11 22:15:25 especially since I say them too much myself Apr 11 22:15:26 well, I have reasonable experience of debugging Windows drivers then Apr 11 22:15:38 yeah I was looking at that option, guess I don't have a choice :) Apr 11 22:15:50 dandiesel, Linux is free, etc etc Apr 11 22:16:03 i know :) Apr 11 22:16:04 a 64bit flasher would be nice, though :( Apr 11 22:16:13 it works on linux Apr 11 22:16:27 the 32 bit flasher works on a 64 bit system Apr 11 22:16:28 my thought was that the device isn't seen in its flashing state for long enough for the driver to be installed, eventually it gets bored and starts to boot and appears as mass storage Apr 11 22:16:29 i'm not going to mention other things that would be nice as wel Apr 11 22:16:31 l Apr 11 22:16:33 (and a 64 bit OS) Apr 11 22:16:37 MohammadAG, yes... I know that Apr 11 22:16:44 but a native one is always better(TM) Apr 11 22:16:50 well Apr 11 22:17:02 changing the control file should be possible Apr 11 22:17:02 yes lardman , Nokia USB Parent flasher drivers won't install as it seems the 'device is unplugged' before it manages to install Apr 11 22:17:20 dandiesel: you might be able to manually force the installation of the driver without the device attached, but as I dual boot I couldn't be bothered and just use Linux Apr 11 22:17:27 dandiesel, hold u before inserting the cable Apr 11 22:18:01 Nokia should've gone the iPhone way of update mode (not flaming/trolling w/e) Apr 11 22:18:04 i was wondering about that lardman , not sure how to go about it. thanks mohammad have been doing that all day unfortunately it's not recognising the device (earlier my printers and devices DID show n900 connected in update mode however) Apr 11 22:18:16 the iPhone doesn't exit DFU mode, even when unplugged Apr 11 22:18:42 hmm Apr 11 22:18:47 dandiesel, Apr 11 22:18:52 you can get DSL Apr 11 22:18:54 dandiesel: I'm not overly sure how I'd do it for Windows either - need to identify the ID of the "flashing ready device", then see which driver needs to be installed, etc., etc Apr 11 22:19:00 (Damn Small Linux) Apr 11 22:19:02 and install flasher Apr 11 22:19:28 dandiesel: yep, I'd go with that tbh, boot off a flash drive or CD Apr 11 22:19:34 looks like it's my last resort i think. it's a pain not being able to actually see whats on screen on the device Apr 11 22:19:41 DSL is 30MBs Apr 11 22:19:45 Ubuntu is 700MBs Apr 11 22:19:52 so pick the one you want :) Apr 11 22:19:57 though if someone does have the time to work out how to sort the Windows drivers that would be good - I wonder what the Nokians think....? Apr 11 22:20:21 lardman, "they can use a 32 bit OS, screw them" Apr 11 22:20:22 :P Apr 11 22:20:34 LOL Apr 11 22:20:50 someone should work out how to do n900 -> n900 flashing too :D Apr 11 22:20:50 corecode: 0x30 is 1.2 volt says who? Apr 11 22:20:57 kernel comment Apr 11 22:21:05 MohammadAG: doesn't work on 32bit WinXP either Apr 11 22:21:26 lcuk, agreed, I'm surprised there aren't videos from NokiaConversations Apr 11 22:21:29 (on youtube) Apr 11 22:21:37 lardman, works for me on 32 bit XP PC Apr 11 22:21:37 lcuk: I guess it's still possible to flash directly on the device Apr 11 22:21:45 MohammadAG: ah, not for me though Apr 11 22:21:50 hmm Apr 11 22:21:52 not sure why Apr 11 22:21:53 lardman, that would be an idea Apr 11 22:22:03 a hard one to implement :P Apr 11 22:22:08 tho some flash images would wipe out the data they are flashing Apr 11 22:22:11 no, the n8x0 could do that Apr 11 22:22:15 lcuk, Apr 11 22:22:17 actually Apr 11 22:22:27 unless such a process ONLY activated with stuff on the actual removable mmc Apr 11 22:22:35 they can sacrifice (weird choice of words) 300MBs from the eMMC Apr 11 22:22:41 and put a recovery partition Apr 11 22:22:43 LiraNuna: vldr's are slower, but they are more flexible and support more addressing modes, so the compiler prefers them Apr 11 22:22:58 yes MohammadAG but that recovery partition could need redoing Apr 11 22:23:00 ssvb, 'slower' how? isn't it RISC? Apr 11 22:23:07 lcuk, like? Apr 11 22:23:11 recovery partitions are overrated Apr 11 22:23:30 LiraNuna: vldr's only have 64-bit per cycle throughput Apr 11 22:23:34 lcuk, the image would have to be updated, they can add that function in flasher Apr 11 22:24:11 i quite like the idea of having multiple variation OSes on external mmcs Apr 11 22:24:13 they can also add the Wifi drivers and cellular drivers, as well as wget Apr 11 22:24:21 lcuk: enable usb-hostmode, plug in target device, start flasher. Should be simple ;-) Apr 11 22:24:22 can flip through them like tiny amiga floppy disks :D Apr 11 22:24:23 to fetch the image Apr 11 22:24:35 DocScrutinizer, ok - try it Apr 11 22:24:44 ssvb, I see it, but I also see GCC setting up the stack to use vld1.32 Apr 11 22:24:49 well flasher is on the N900 Apr 11 22:24:56 so if host mode is possible Apr 11 22:25:01 one N900 can flash the other Apr 11 22:25:02 lcuk: I'll do in a few days :-D Apr 11 22:25:08 MohammadAG, compromisewhich doesnt need it Apr 11 22:25:09 (what if the two are bricked :P) Apr 11 22:25:14 corecode: that value has no meaning to nobody other than smartreflex Apr 11 22:25:15 ssvb, they may be slower in batch loading, however I try to load one Apr 11 22:25:20 :) great DocScrutinizer Apr 11 22:25:26 Anyone in SF south bay looking to carpool for ELC? Apr 11 22:25:38 ELC? Apr 11 22:25:40 * GeneralAntilles is going to forgo any quotes on the overclocking story. . . . Apr 11 22:25:44 embedded linux conference Apr 11 22:26:02 I'd love to, but I have to work :| Apr 11 22:26:16 Too bad Apr 11 22:26:17 * DocScrutinizer kicks GeneralAntilles for using the O-word :-P Apr 11 22:26:21 damn weekday confrences Apr 11 22:26:34 tealbird, now or in the future? Apr 11 22:26:39 it's tomorrow Apr 11 22:27:00 * GeneralAntilles knows Myrtti may have been looking for transportation. Apr 11 22:27:09 I'm taking time off, didn't even try to get work time cuz I know they wouldn't pay Apr 11 22:27:11 LiraNuna: single load may be fine, but really optimized neon code needs to schedule load/store and alu instructions so that dual issue is used, also all the latencies need to be taken into accound with loops unrolled and pipelined Apr 11 22:27:27 *account Apr 11 22:27:29 javispedro: and SmartReflex(R) is IP of TI Apr 11 22:27:35 NEON is more complex than SSE, isn't it Apr 11 22:27:45 no, it's easier Apr 11 22:28:00 because it is more consistent and orthogonal Apr 11 22:28:01 maybe it's just my unfamiliarity with it Apr 11 22:28:12 and also because since there's one chip to target only you can do optimize for stuff like what ssvb mentioned :) Apr 11 22:28:27 * argh, redundant word syndrome syndrome. Apr 11 22:28:44 javispedro: also to my understanding SmartReflex(R) also comprises of a few kernel patches to manage the hw Apr 11 22:28:50 * lardman heads for bed Apr 11 22:28:52 night all Apr 11 22:28:56 g'night lardman Apr 11 22:28:56 DocScrutinizer: I am looking at it. Apr 11 22:29:07 <_bella_> • oie •  Apr 11 22:29:24 also discovered that Nokia disabled the kernel parameter for o/c that had been in the kernel since the very first days and nobody noticed but I mentioned... Apr 11 22:29:28 LiraNuna: it's easy to convert code from SSE to NEON, but not the other way around Apr 11 22:30:25 go-go-gadget Ctrl+H ! Apr 11 22:30:59 ssvb, is there shuffling in NEON? Apr 11 22:31:16 DocScrutinizer/javispedro/SpeedEvil/anybody else, want to take a look at the (incomplete) draft? http://pastebin.com/Fk691bUz Apr 11 22:32:04 GeneralAntilles: damn, was halfway under the shower Apr 11 22:32:05 LiraNuna: yes, vtbl Apr 11 22:32:16 GeneralAntilles: where do you plan to put that? in a giant bill board somewhere? :) Apr 11 22:32:24 LiraNuna: and vzip/vuzp which are faster Apr 11 22:32:50 vtbl seems to be 8bit lanes only Apr 11 22:33:20 zipping only goes in pairs Apr 11 22:33:30 LiraNuna: don't know about intrisincs, but real vtbl is very powerful Apr 11 22:33:59 LiraNuna: it has 8-bit granularity, and MMX/SSE can handle only 16-bit data Apr 11 22:34:04 ssvb, yeah, I can see you can shuffle butes Apr 11 22:34:07 bytes* Apr 11 22:34:40 SpeedEvil: I calculated a complete freq*voltage^2 table Apr 11 22:34:42 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=606065&postcount=2384 Apr 11 22:34:49 LiraNuna: you can shuffle anything if you can shuffle bytes Apr 11 22:35:20 ssvb, un/zip only goes for pairs, right Apr 11 22:35:20 ? Apr 11 22:35:27 ugh my keyboard is dying Apr 11 22:35:48 javispedro: which kernel parameter? Apr 11 22:35:51 GeneralAntilles: added edit Apr 11 22:36:02 LiraNuna: zvip/vuzp can interleave/deinterleave data, don't know what you mean Apr 11 22:36:03 t-tan: mpurate and the rest Apr 11 22:37:08 LiraNuna: it's just the most common operation, for arbitrary shuffles vtbl is used Apr 11 22:37:25 can vtbl duplicate? Apr 11 22:37:53 i.e if I give it a mask of 0's, will it duplicate first lane to all? Apr 11 22:37:54 LiraNuna: sure it can :) but you are better to use vdup, it is also faster Apr 11 22:38:01 (I know thre's vdup) Apr 11 22:38:02 lol Apr 11 22:38:22 ssvb, when you say 'faster', do you mean setup time or clocks? Apr 11 22:38:37 LiraNuna: both Apr 11 22:38:41 GeneralAntilles: add a passage more clearly pointing to the warranty loss Apr 11 22:38:52 ssvb, so NEON isn't RISC? Apr 11 22:39:05 LiraNuna: for vdup/vzip/vuzp you do not need to construct index register Apr 11 22:39:14 right Apr 11 22:39:34 LiraNuna: pure RISK does not exist anymore :) Apr 11 22:39:47 :( Apr 11 22:40:24 *RISC Apr 11 22:41:07 hmm Apr 11 22:41:11 LiraNuna: do you have ARM Architecture Reference Manual? Apr 11 22:41:18 ssvb, somewhere here, yeah Apr 11 22:41:29 I only skimmed through it Apr 11 22:41:47 LiraNuna: this and Cortex-A8 TRM provide all the needed information Apr 11 22:42:22 epoc felt snappy. all QT and Python and Java devs need to have an old psion for reference Apr 11 22:42:50 or a palmos handheld Apr 11 22:42:54 GeneralAntilles: damn, new URL -> http://pastebin.com/u8kkd0Si Apr 11 22:43:24 pupnik: never impressed by how launching garnetvm applications that rival in feature sets with those of maemo are still an order of magnitude faster than native maemo ones? :) Apr 11 22:43:32 think calendar, etc. Apr 11 22:44:03 can i create a livecd using slax? Apr 11 22:44:11 (of course, I'd never want to code nothing serious for PalmOS again) Apr 11 22:44:12 LiraNuna: also check this one, it's a good cortex-a8 microarchitecture overview: http://www.arm.com/miscPDFs/24588.pdf Apr 11 22:44:14 dandiesel, use DSL, it's smaller Apr 11 22:44:14 dont want to download ubuntu Apr 11 22:44:28 thanks Apr 11 22:44:53 dandiesel, http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ Apr 11 22:45:16 javispedro: yes, but still people are tweaking the values to undervolt/overvolt the mpu Apr 11 22:45:33 javispedro: todays standard seems to be "well it feels faster than the web" Apr 11 22:45:49 corecode: but those do nothing at all from what I see in the code unless smartreflex is enabled Apr 11 22:46:05 (talking about vsel here) Apr 11 22:48:21 javispedro: yes, right Apr 11 22:48:30 well, people seem to be using sr Apr 11 22:48:42 (no wonder the crashes) Apr 11 22:48:50 why? Apr 11 22:49:12 changing the vsel without the associated opp voltage Apr 11 22:49:35 what do you mean, without changing Apr 11 22:50:36 that I don't know what smartreflex uses vsel for, but if you're changing it _without_ changing the actual operating voltage, dunno what happens Apr 11 22:50:53 maybe smartreflex active does something around it, maybe it's just wrong and nobody knows Apr 11 22:50:59 shouldn't sr change the voltage? Apr 11 22:51:36 yes, but the above applies. Apr 11 22:52:26 from reading the code/trm i was under the impression that sr was responsible for ramping the voltage Apr 11 22:52:56 doesn't seem that any other part is being configured with changing voltage Apr 11 22:53:04 on opp switch Apr 11 22:53:15 corecode: [2010-04-12 00:28:43] javispedro: also to my understanding SmartReflex(R) also comprises of a few kernel patches to manage the hw Apr 11 22:53:49 on top of the nokia kernel? Apr 11 22:54:19 DocScrutinizer: they're public, I'm looking at them. Apr 11 22:54:47 yes, the code is public, but the knowledge is IP of TI Apr 11 22:54:51 :) Apr 11 22:57:21 have anybody tried how low you can go with frequency? Apr 11 23:00:44 125 has been reported instable Apr 11 23:01:15 what sort of instable? Apr 11 23:01:21 dunno Apr 11 23:02:18 i'll have to play around with it and see how low it can go and how does it improve battery life Apr 11 23:03:33 jacekowski: keep in mind the general strategy is run-to-idle where CPU is at zero Hz most of the time Apr 11 23:03:36 measuring while active at min cpu would be good Apr 11 23:03:45 Keep in mind that cpu is OFF in idle, so 125 only helps if phone is running something that constantly requires a small amount of cpu Apr 11 23:03:57 there are a few usecases for this Apr 11 23:04:01 ShadowJK: :-P Apr 11 23:04:08 faster Apr 11 23:04:11 mp3, Apr 11 23:04:16 umm Apr 11 23:04:27 fmradio Apr 11 23:04:58 I wonder also how much can be pwered down with static screen Apr 11 23:05:04 * ShadowJK blames gprs lag ;-) Apr 11 23:05:52 ShadowJK: use HSCSD ;-P Apr 11 23:05:56 jacekowski: 125 turned out to be worse for battery life than 250 Apr 11 23:06:16 t-tan: measured how? Apr 11 23:06:16 n900 doesn't support it Apr 11 23:06:17 DocScrutinizer: zero hz? Apr 11 23:06:22 SpeedEvil_: the lcd controller has a (afaik unused) slow refresh mode Apr 11 23:06:28 hmm Apr 11 23:07:01 dunno if it does anything good :P Apr 11 23:07:17 javispedro: I got ~8% extra battery life on one laptop going from 24-4 bit mode Apr 11 23:07:46 interesting, cause I would think quite a lot of time the n900 screen is on it's not doing anything at all Apr 11 23:07:59 (think 30 seconds countdown to poweroff, just reading text, ...) Apr 11 23:08:27 javispedro: screen is often quite readable with no backlight. Apr 11 23:08:40 direct sunlight :) Apr 11 23:08:49 SpeedEvil_: while idling. device went much more often to max.freq than with 250 Apr 11 23:08:54 but at low backlight settings, backlight uses a small fractiom Apr 11 23:09:16 t-tan: that may be a matter of fixing stuff. Apr 11 23:09:42 SpeedEvil_: yes, write a smarter governor Apr 11 23:09:49 maybe even just tweaking tweakables in the governor Apr 11 23:09:58 not writing anything Apr 11 23:10:01 * DocScrutinizer mentions on OM FreeRunner a *dark* LCD display uses some 30mA power, probably for the 16 datalines pulled low most of the pixels transferred from SoC to LCD Apr 11 23:10:44 DocScrutinizer: I see very little difference if any between black and white screen Apr 11 23:10:53 on noop Apr 11 23:11:12 n900 Apr 11 23:11:54 hmm seems the N900 LCD has 3 LVD lines, which are neutral to actual data transferred Apr 11 23:12:06 people have played with the params..to no avail Apr 11 23:12:33 3, not 4 ? Apr 11 23:12:35 oh Apr 11 23:12:43 * javispedro ponders if the core voltage is changed in omap linux when smartreflex driver is removed Apr 11 23:12:51 what's the n900 screen depth Apr 11 23:13:01 SpeedEvil: interesting question. unknown. Apr 11 23:13:34 SpeedEvil_: color or physical? Apr 11 23:13:44 bits Apr 11 23:14:04 yeah, unknown Apr 11 23:14:16 actual panel is acx565akm iirc. no datasheet. Apr 11 23:14:28 i guess 6bit/channel as usual for TN displays Apr 11 23:14:32 though there seem idications it's 5/6/5 Apr 11 23:14:47 ssvb, thanks for that link Apr 11 23:16:01 hm. Apr 11 23:16:03 does the headphone jack on the n900 work as line-in also? Apr 11 23:16:06 LiraNuna: you are welcome, feel free to bug me if you have any neon related questions :) Apr 11 23:16:19 ssvb, you'll regret saying that ;P Apr 11 23:16:26 the iPad might have true 24bit color as it is a IPS panel Apr 11 23:16:42 ipad more like hype-pad Apr 11 23:16:44 jaek: no Apr 11 23:17:13 cant use the tuner/recorder with an electric (silent) guitar T_T Apr 11 23:17:32 LiraNuna: btw, direct access to L2 cache from NEON unit is broken and disabled in current OMAP3 chips, so it always goes through L1 now Apr 11 23:17:36 t-tan, viewing angle sucks. Apr 11 23:17:38 fm transmitter on guitar Apr 11 23:18:02 ssvb, crap. Apr 11 23:19:06 doesnt the hw have a line in on the jack? the headphones that come with the n900 have a mic Apr 11 23:19:26 GAN900: what's going to happen with your OC statement? Apr 11 23:19:30 DocScrutinizer, thanks! Apr 11 23:19:38 javispedro/DocScrutinizer, mwkn.net Apr 11 23:19:47 ah. Apr 11 23:19:51 there's already a overclocking item Apr 11 23:20:02 From last week? Apr 11 23:20:03 the one where he talks about the "engineer extraordinaire" Apr 11 23:20:04 yep Apr 11 23:20:05 what's with all the overclocking talk today Apr 11 23:20:31 javispedro, that there is. Apr 11 23:20:39 We were shooting for /. dupedom Apr 11 23:20:40 Too bad. Apr 11 23:21:01 I guess that means instant success! Apr 11 23:21:05 Well, I guess I'll just bind that to an autoreply if anybody mentions overclocking in here. ;) Apr 11 23:21:52 hm... Apr 11 23:22:26 no, it's not me being an idiot: I don't have my cloak! Apr 11 23:22:29 ;P Apr 11 23:23:42 i presume it must be possible to hack a cable to act like a headset? Apr 11 23:23:56 wouldn't you break something if you connect a speaker out into a mic in? Apr 11 23:23:56 jaek: yes, you can do that Apr 11 23:24:06 jaek: IIRC the input ADC is very low quality though Apr 11 23:24:15 jaek: more voice than hifi, and mono only Apr 11 23:24:55 man that sucks, it would have been nice to use the n900 as an effects box Apr 11 23:25:54 guitar -> n900 -> a2dp out Apr 11 23:26:27 jaek: there are bluetooth audio in devices Apr 11 23:26:56 then you cant stream the output to another a2dp device Apr 11 23:27:16 GeneralAntilles: I vote or that Apr 11 23:27:20 due to bandwidth restrictions Apr 11 23:27:25 on a2dp Apr 11 23:27:34 why not? Apr 11 23:27:49 ah Apr 11 23:28:02 also latency may be bad. Apr 11 23:28:04 you cant even use a bluetooth mouse + a2dp at the same time let alone two a2dp streams Apr 11 23:28:06 GeneralAntilles: [2010-04-11 18:21:59] * DocScrutinizer sets up autokickban on regex '.* safe .* OC .*' and '.* OC .* safe .*' Apr 11 23:28:34 you could use it as a drumkit. Apr 11 23:28:52 with the accel picking up the sticks. Apr 11 23:29:04 there is no usb host mode, right? Apr 11 23:29:15 if there was i could just plugin a usb audio device Apr 11 23:29:22 Is it safe to watch the OC at work? Apr 11 23:29:32 not yet. Apr 11 23:29:45 ssvb, what is vbsl? (intrinsics call it "Bit Selection") Apr 11 23:29:48 usb host is a maybe Apr 11 23:30:02 nobody has gotten it working. Apr 11 23:30:13 DocScrutinizer, seriously? lol Apr 11 23:30:17 OC Apr 11 23:30:25 DocScrutinizer: 0v3rcl0ck1n6 15 54f3 4nd rul35 y0u l00z3r5 1'm 3v1l h4ck3r Apr 11 23:30:29 * MohammadAG sighs with relief Apr 11 23:30:29 if the n900 did have a host mode the device would instantly become 100x more useful (for hackers) Apr 11 23:30:51 didnt all of the prior devices have host mode? Apr 11 23:30:51 in some description online i read it should be possible Apr 11 23:30:56 but you need a special cable Apr 11 23:31:06 perhaps the firmware does not support it yet? Apr 11 23:31:13 LiraNuna: it can be used for making code branchless Apr 11 23:31:20 jaek: we're working on that Apr 11 23:31:23 jaek, yes they did, but they didn't use the USB port for charging Apr 11 23:31:32 ssvb, is it like cmpps in SSE? Apr 11 23:31:45 symbian phones are arm based as well? Apr 11 23:32:01 and no, you don't even need a special cable probably Apr 11 23:32:20 oh rly :p Apr 11 23:32:23 thats nice :) Apr 11 23:32:33 but there are a lot of features missing in the phone :( Apr 11 23:32:45 yup. Apr 11 23:32:45 LiraNuna: well, there are comparison instructions which write either all zeros or all ones to the destination register depending on the result, these can be used as bit masks for selection Apr 11 23:32:49 more profiles, switch profiles based on schedules and cell locations Apr 11 23:33:15 Gh0sty: for some, it's fine as is. Apr 11 23:33:17 ssvb, so I can AND for selection? Apr 11 23:33:25 SpeedEvil_: well if i compare Apr 11 23:33:38 LiraNuna: branches based on NEON values are *very* expensive, this is a bad thing in cortex-a8 Apr 11 23:33:45 ssvb, in SSE, comparison returns a mask in form of 0000 and FFFF Apr 11 23:33:46 this device cost me 550 eur and does not have some features my e65 has Apr 11 23:33:59 which cost around 150 at the time Apr 11 23:34:06 Gh0sty: for example, I've recieved one call, made 20 texts over the time I've had it. Apr 11 23:34:08 LiraNuna: yes, you can, but bit selection is a bit more flexible Apr 11 23:34:23 ssvb, care to give me an example? (can be impractical) Apr 11 23:34:30 i made one call and zero texts Apr 11 23:34:35 yes, and it doesn't have functionality of a 0.50$ pen Apr 11 23:34:38 but then again only have it like 3 days :p Apr 11 23:34:49 Gh0sty: 4 months? Apr 11 23:34:58 lol ok Apr 11 23:35:03 then you did not need a phone Apr 11 23:35:13 but a internet tablet :p Apr 11 23:35:24 wolf^: ;-D ++ Apr 11 23:35:35 well - I did need an emergencies phone too. Apr 11 23:35:48 but, yes. Apr 11 23:36:16 where can we put feature requests? Apr 11 23:36:30 brainstorm Apr 11 23:36:49 brainstorm.maemo.org ? Apr 11 23:36:57 k Apr 11 23:38:13 LiraNuna: well, for example for implementing getting the maximum value for each element between two vectors (even though this operation has its own instruction), that would be one comparioson and selection Apr 11 23:39:09 ssvb, how is it different than vceq and friends? Apr 11 23:40:08 LiraNuna: vceq is a comparison instruction which constructs mask Apr 11 23:40:28 heh, playing mp3 and xchat, cpu never drops below 500MHz... hooray gtk and mafw/gstreamer Apr 11 23:40:31 ssvb, how is the mask generated for vbsl? Apr 11 23:40:45 or used Apr 11 23:41:25 LiraNuna: with all the same vceq instruction for example Apr 11 23:41:36 ShadowJK: odd Apr 11 23:42:52 Hrm, if I have a widget that fails to show up when selected from the add widget menu, where would I go to debug that (logs..?) Apr 11 23:42:59 btw. why are they modyfing kernels to overclock it Apr 11 23:43:34 as it is possible to talk to hardware directly Apr 11 23:43:42 or even modify kernel on the fly Apr 11 23:43:44 LiraNuna: don't let the bits confuse you, it is perfectly fine also for 8, 16, 32 bit data Apr 11 23:44:04 ssvb, it's not confusing, it's something SSE does not have Apr 11 23:44:10 I just seek to understand it Apr 11 23:44:25 I'm trying to port my SSE math library to NEON Apr 11 23:45:28 hmm Apr 11 23:45:51 LiraNuna: I guess it was just simple to implement this instruction to operate on bit level, and it is a bit more flexible than inventing something that would be operating per element Apr 11 23:46:15 SplasPood: check other desktops - also - it can appear under stuff Apr 11 23:46:16 LiraNuna: even if nobody would actually use real selection at bit granularity Apr 11 23:46:29 ssvb, it's like AND then? Apr 11 23:46:40 bit selection usually means AND :P Apr 11 23:47:03 LiraNuna: yes, except in some cases it replaces AND/OR pair Apr 11 23:47:23 so it may save some instructions Apr 11 23:47:25 ah, I see Apr 11 23:47:36 I think I understand what it does Apr 11 23:47:38 thank you Apr 11 23:47:57 SpeedEvil: I'll take another look... beyond that tho.. any way to see a log of stuff starting, etc? Apr 11 23:48:25 ssvb, I love the multiply-add/sub instructions Apr 11 23:48:25 LiraNuna: and NEON has a "shift with insert" instruction, it can also help to eliminate some AND/OR stuff Apr 11 23:48:45 SplasPood: unsure Apr 11 23:49:12 LiraNuna: vector long multiplication are quite nice Apr 11 23:49:22 NEON looks very fun Apr 11 23:49:30 too bad it's annoyingly undocumented :( Apr 11 23:49:52 LiraNuna: it's well documented in ARM ARM Apr 11 23:50:18 ssvb, I want portable code, and I'm already familiar with the way GCC spews intrinsics Apr 11 23:50:23 so I prefer no inline asm Apr 11 23:50:32 ShadowJK: why does xchat + mp3 use lots more than either? Apr 11 23:50:58 LiraNuna: intrinsics are just confusing, I never got into getting familiar with them just because the compiler usually generates awful code :) Apr 11 23:51:17 ssvb, in 4.2.1 they ARE awful Apr 11 23:51:32 4.5.0 is not much better Apr 11 23:51:39 4.4.3 is what I'm using Apr 11 23:51:47 but yeah, at least it doesn't ICEs Apr 11 23:51:55 s/s// Apr 11 23:51:56 LiraNuna meant: but yeah, at leat it doesn't ICEs Apr 11 23:52:01 :| Apr 11 23:52:14 ICE* Apr 11 23:53:47 ssvb, intrinsics -> SSE code in GCC works VERY well Apr 11 23:54:07 I believe GCC's core for them is the same, since it recognizes both as vs4f Apr 11 23:54:35 for now I'm only playing with float32x4_t (.f32 opcodes) Apr 11 23:54:52 LiraNuna: x86 is usually out-of-order, so it's compensating compiler stupidity a lot :) Apr 11 23:54:59 hahahaha Apr 11 23:55:12 ssvb, http://www.liranuna.com/sse-intrinsics-optimizations-in-popular-compilers/ Apr 11 23:55:24 it's quite good Apr 11 23:57:21 ssvb, I wrote a 'vec4' class that will do a lot of optimized operations for the programmer even if the programmer does awful mistakes Apr 11 23:58:34 ssvb, I would like to have that class for NEON as well Apr 11 23:58:54 ssvb, that's why I am confident in GCC's code generation abilities :) Apr 11 23:59:39 LiraNuna: don't forget to report "missing-optimization" bugs to gcc if you notice something strange :) Apr 11 23:59:46 ssvb, I did! Apr 11 23:59:51 http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=43147 Apr 11 23:59:52 Bug 43147: was not found. Apr 12 00:00:10 haha, it tries to look for a maemo bug I take it? Apr 12 00:00:24 yeah, stupid bot Apr 12 00:00:38 ssvb, see that last part of GIMPLE? Apr 12 00:00:46 ssvb, GCC treats it as V4SF Apr 12 00:01:05 it treats NEON (float32x4_t) the same way Apr 12 00:01:24 so I am inclined to believe that it'll generate the same optimizations available for SSE Apr 12 00:02:50 LiraNuna: yes, thanks for reporting this, I believe it helps to make gcc better in the long run Apr 12 00:03:02 ssvb, I would LOVE to see this implemented Apr 12 00:03:09 currently I use a template to merge masks Apr 12 00:03:38 LiraNuna: I also reported this bug: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=43364 Apr 12 00:03:39 Bug 43364: was not found. Apr 12 00:03:44 I can do vec.xxyy.wwww.zwxy and they will all be merged into one shufps Apr 12 00:04:16 oh wow Apr 12 00:05:11 well, you could use vld1 directly Apr 12 00:05:16 there's an intrinsic for that Apr 12 00:07:15 good thing it uses vst1.32 though Apr 12 00:08:06 LiraNuna: it's just an example, I would like to load that value either from memory, or just put a single floating point value into a vector from a register Apr 12 00:08:56 ssvb, yeah I understand Apr 12 00:10:52 hmm Apr 12 00:11:00 http://bla/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1 Apr 12 00:11:01 Bug 1: test - ignore it Apr 12 00:11:07 http://bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1 Apr 12 00:11:08 Bug 1: test - ignore it Apr 12 00:11:11 http://show_bug.cgi?id=1 Apr 12 00:11:17 aww Apr 12 00:11:30 python url parser would choke on that one Apr 12 00:11:38 show_bug.cgi?id=1 Apr 12 00:11:38 http:///show_bug.cgi?id=1 Apr 12 00:11:45 buzilla show_bug.cgi?id=1 Apr 12 00:11:48 bugzilla show_bug.cgi?id=1 Apr 12 00:11:53 meh Apr 12 00:11:55 why don't you actually show the title of the page? it should work Apr 12 00:12:13 http://google.com/ Apr 12 00:12:23 it's not that stupid lol Apr 12 00:12:25 heh Apr 12 00:12:40 http://google.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1 Apr 12 00:12:41 Bug 1: test - ignore it Apr 12 00:12:42 yes it is Apr 12 00:12:44 ^_^ Apr 12 00:13:03 SpeedEvil, sorry misread C3 as 500 Apr 12 00:14:57 * SpeedEvil shuns ShadowJK with a coconut. Apr 12 00:20:39 bug 1 Apr 12 00:20:41 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it Apr 12 00:21:44 http://google.com/bug #1 Apr 12 00:22:05 /kickall Apr 12 00:22:05 http://google.com/bug 1 Apr 12 00:22:46 javispedro, can you try to bug X-Fade about it in the morning? Apr 12 00:22:56 about it is, about the autobuilder? Apr 12 00:23:15 or about pr1.2? Apr 12 00:23:32 cloaks Apr 12 00:23:36 ah Apr 12 00:23:37 The least important thing of the bunch. Apr 12 00:23:43 yes, I forgot for a moment Apr 12 00:23:57 nah, I'll keep mine Apr 12 00:24:08 * javispedro castigates himself for forgetting about the most important thing, cloaks Apr 12 00:24:28 :) Apr 12 00:24:52 hey, I still had op? damn. Apr 12 00:25:06 /kickall Apr 12 00:25:09 We're going to get DocScrutinizer the "Maemo/community/angryoldman" cloak. Apr 12 00:25:15 tsk tsk tsk, you even got the command wrong :P Apr 12 00:25:20 lol Apr 12 00:25:31 lol Apr 12 00:25:56 how about maemo/community/overclocker cloak :P Apr 12 00:26:03 +the * Apr 12 00:26:19 great match for a kickban Apr 12 00:26:21 no, might act as a easy target Apr 12 00:26:22 lol Apr 12 00:30:36 window was minimized lol Apr 12 00:37:15 javispedro, bug #9407 Apr 12 00:37:17 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9407 Browser: Do not show fullscreen button when scrolling with the keyboard Apr 12 00:37:22 Oops Apr 12 00:37:26 javispedro, bug #9896 Apr 12 00:37:27 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9896 Update IRC cloaks for new council Apr 12 00:38:26 * javispedro dutifully votes Apr 12 00:38:36 What the hell x-server were we using in Diablo? Apr 12 00:38:46 xomap, based on kdrive Apr 12 00:38:52 Ah, right, thanks. Apr 12 00:39:01 * GeneralAntilles shakes his head and hears rusty bolts rattle around. Apr 12 00:39:31 * javispedro gets another little haiku courtesy of his favourite skype spammer Apr 12 00:48:39 lol Apr 12 00:48:50 people can really for adwords keywords like "citrix doesn't work" and "citrix doesn't print" Apr 12 00:48:55 *pay for Apr 12 00:54:55 Need more editors. . . . Apr 12 00:54:56 Hi! Is there a way for Pidgin to hook into Maemo's notification system, e.g. blinking led on new message Apr 12 00:55:08 Telepathy Extras works better in general. Apr 12 00:57:06 For many reasons, I want to use Pidgin. The built-in messaging system, is unreliable at best. Apr 12 00:58:59 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9897 Apr 12 00:59:00 Bug 9897: Proximity sensor not disabled when using headset in a call Apr 12 01:01:43 Need more editors. . . . Apr 12 01:01:56 editors as in text editors? or bloggers? Apr 12 01:02:25 mwkn.net editors Apr 12 01:02:40 oh ok Apr 12 01:03:10 i've got a blank screen on my n900 (after flashing) and I'm guessing it's the little ribbon connecting the screen , am i invalidating my warranty if I open the device yes? Apr 12 01:03:21 Yes Apr 12 01:03:28 Are you sure it's not just busy doing something weird? Apr 12 01:03:32 also..if the ribbon is loose.. will this affect the performance of the TV-out? Apr 12 01:03:36 Have you popped the battery? Apr 12 01:03:39 Shouldn't Apr 12 01:03:44 TV-out is on a different lead. Apr 12 01:03:53 no it's been blank for 24 hours now I've tried everything.. thread is here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49736 Apr 12 01:04:10 TV-out doesn't work either though, black and white lines intermittently and just a black screen Apr 12 01:04:14 ha Apr 12 01:04:22 calling DocScrutinizer to the scene Apr 12 01:04:42 is this something like what happened to yours? Apr 12 01:04:43 * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk at http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=7 Apr 12 01:05:12 dandiesel, sounds like an excellent case for a warranty fix. ;) Apr 12 01:05:20 dandiesel, I'll let the engineers in the room chime in, though. Apr 12 01:05:47 yeah it's certainly looking that way, generalAntilles Apr 12 01:06:35 Thanks for the help all, i'll send it off for repair , nite! Apr 12 01:08:14 oh, another forum to monitor? Apr 12 01:08:21 GeneralAntilles: (TV-out) well, here I get a black LCD and weird patterns on AV same time Apr 12 01:08:37 javispedro, sadly, yes. Apr 12 01:08:43 javispedro: heh exactly Apr 12 01:08:51 One with broken as hell username capitalization just like maemo.org, too. Apr 12 01:09:28 DocScrutinizer: so not such an uncommon thing Apr 12 01:09:48 and my last suspect - main FPC Apr 12 01:10:25 funny though he said he got black+white stripes, well maybe NTSC vs PAL issue Apr 12 01:11:16 javispedro, blood red? Apr 12 01:11:25 lcuk: something spooky :) Apr 12 01:11:46 * DocScrutinizer finally considers disassembling the LCD half as well Apr 12 01:12:48 so seems like I'm in peace with my world once again. Not me who caused it, basically. Apr 12 01:13:15 * DocScrutinizer polishes his Senior-EE batch Apr 12 01:13:58 DocScrutinizer, and warranty? :P Apr 12 01:14:29 warranty been void when I did these pics, no? Apr 12 01:14:32 I guess they could detect he opened it. Apr 12 01:15:35 DocScrutinizer, what's your plan to fix it, then? Apr 12 01:15:53 nah, I'll first go check the maintenance manual on details about replacment of main-FPC Apr 12 01:16:22 "beyond economical repair"? Apr 12 01:16:24 ;) Apr 12 01:16:52 then I'll either give it to paid repair, or I get proper sparepart and do the fix myself Apr 12 01:18:15 * javispedro ponders if forums.meego.com will ever convert into a hacker-place or will skip that stage and instead go straight to user forum Apr 12 01:18:29 nah, nix 'beyond economical' - actually replacing main-FPC should be rather affordable and a quite frequent cause of failure Apr 12 01:19:21 err break of FPC the cause, not replacement ;-P Apr 12 01:20:32 * DocScrutinizer imagines all sorts of "my creditcard slipped in between" sorts of misshaps Apr 12 01:20:46 * javispedro nearly pissed Apr 12 01:20:54 lol Apr 12 01:21:43 has any forum ever been a hacker-place? Apr 12 01:22:20 well... exaggerating a bit. Apr 12 01:23:37 DocScrutinizer, to a certain extent, yes. Apr 12 01:23:38 my bet is it'll go straigt all the way to tmo-madness Apr 12 01:23:53 internettablettalk.com was very enthusiast and hacker-oriented in the early days. Apr 12 01:24:07 The N900 really brought the overall level of sanity down, though. ;) Apr 12 01:25:04 hnn a pity I missed those good ol' times Apr 12 01:25:15 * MohammadAG feels the same Apr 12 01:25:24 was just too happy with my diablo :-P Apr 12 01:25:38 didn't know Maemo was linux :) Apr 12 01:25:50 hahahaha Apr 12 01:25:56 I figure you can have success which brings users, and a lot of noise, but also money and productive things Apr 12 01:26:06 or you can have your little hacker club but eventually fade away into oblivion. Apr 12 01:26:12 * GeneralAntilles probably would prefer the later. Apr 12 01:26:24 or you can have both Apr 12 01:26:25 s/later/latter Apr 12 01:26:31 GeneralAntilles: /join #openmoko-cdevel ;-P Apr 12 01:26:58 * GeneralAntilles watches as Nokia drifts farther and farther away from a devices which are actually interesting and useful. Apr 12 01:27:28 I'm actually interested if the N950 (if that's what it's getting called) can run Maemo 5 Apr 12 01:27:44 ha, as much as I were into running Diablo on the N900? Apr 12 01:28:18 Capacitive = fail Apr 12 01:28:24 javispedro, well that's technically impossible (at least without major changes) since Diablo was for OMAP2 and the N900 has OMAP3 Apr 12 01:28:28 GeneralAntilles, +1 on that Apr 12 01:28:40 if they kill the keyboard I'm not upgrading Apr 12 01:28:41 I know one thing for sure - I am *not* interested in N950 Apr 12 01:28:45 or downgrading in that case Apr 12 01:28:47 capacitive = different Apr 12 01:28:51 MohammadAG: if you go on that level, everything will need changes... Apr 12 01:29:19 as it is, you cannot do a "universal" kernel build. Apr 12 01:29:32 javispedro, build a kernel from scratch then Apr 12 01:29:33 :P Apr 12 01:29:55 then you could as well put diablo Apr 12 01:30:15 I'll get diablo running, you build the kernel Apr 12 01:30:18 deal? :P Apr 12 01:30:22 lcuk, it's fail for me. Apr 12 01:30:28 lcuk, I can't stand it in the slightest. Apr 12 01:30:31 it's not like most of it requires an exact kernel version (even though I know of a certain component at least that does) Apr 12 01:30:45 Whether it works for other people or not is irrelevant to me when I am given no other choices. Apr 12 01:30:55 "other choices" is a good question Apr 12 01:31:20 * GeneralAntilles would love to have a perfect world of To Each His Own here, but Nokia's dead set on preventing that. Apr 12 01:31:26 would be cool if Nokia sold the "N950" as N950c and N950r Apr 12 01:31:27 isnt that the meego route - since we have a perfectly capable device in the n900 Apr 12 01:31:33 "Thanks for helping us get this platform where it is today, now kindly take your money and screw off!" Apr 12 01:31:36 resistive and capacitive options Apr 12 01:31:49 MohammadAG, indeed. Apr 12 01:31:54 It's not like it'd be particularly difficult Apr 12 01:32:07 MohammadAG: yep, with and without hw-kbd Apr 12 01:32:08 in fact we have a few "perfect capable devices", all of the nits Apr 12 01:32:10 and it would mean to abandoning a large portion of their market. Apr 12 01:32:11 build your own hardware set :) Apr 12 01:32:15 but who wants them now? :) Apr 12 01:32:18 walk into a store and choose components off the shelf Apr 12 01:32:19 mwahaha Apr 12 01:32:32 is there something in particular preventing a .33 kernel for the N900 Apr 12 01:32:34 and with a 23600mAh battery for the nerds Apr 12 01:32:39 as an option Apr 12 01:32:40 DocScrutinizer, I was thinking that too, but both with a hw keyboard would be better than no keyboard Apr 12 01:32:45 23600 mAh battery. Apr 12 01:32:48 Virtual keyboards just don't work Apr 12 01:32:57 I want one of those. Apr 12 01:33:20 * MohammadAG wants a nuclear battery Apr 12 01:33:24 javispedro: 2libs, size of 7 N900 Apr 12 01:33:27 no terrorism intended :P Apr 12 01:33:29 * javispedro envisions the Nokia Internet Car-Sized Tablet" Apr 12 01:33:32 i want a flexible oled skin over the top of hw keyboard Apr 12 01:33:48 I want an i7 Maemo device Apr 12 01:33:52 proper haptics and reconfigurable Apr 12 01:33:56 MohammadAG, virtual keyboards work fine. Apr 12 01:34:01 lcuk++ Apr 12 01:34:10 GeneralAntilles, not for everything Apr 12 01:34:10 MohammadAG, I was hitting 40-60 wpm on my 770 and N800. Apr 12 01:34:18 I want the fountain of eternal youth. The holy grail will also suffice. Apr 12 01:34:23 It's just a matter of having a good implementation and a fair amount of practice. Apr 12 01:34:29 GeneralAntilles, not sure about the N800, but the N900's is broken Apr 12 01:34:33 and i need a holiday too Apr 12 01:34:34 javispedro, and make it for under $500, please. Apr 12 01:34:34 try to use it in terminal... Apr 12 01:34:36 MohammadAG, yes, it is. Apr 12 01:34:41 I want a flexible OLED screen of 33', rolled up inside the pensized phone Apr 12 01:34:44 MohammadAG, it's a huge regression, in fact. Apr 12 01:34:55 well I never had an N800 Apr 12 01:34:57 MohammadAG, but Nokia doesn't test anything that isn't directly applicable to the latest product. Apr 12 01:35:00 GeneralAntilles: actually, that's a good point. Price is the current dealbreaker for higher platform expansion. Apr 12 01:35:07 for some reason I thought Maemo was some proprierty OS Apr 12 01:35:08 GeneralAntilles, you were amazing with your n800 kb Apr 12 01:35:11 * MohammadAG corrects typos Apr 12 01:35:14 for irc i think you were the fastest Apr 12 01:35:22 javispedro, Nokia needs to stop pussy-footing around with Linux platforms. Apr 12 01:35:24 khertan did similar for coding Apr 12 01:35:33 * lcuk could never use vkb Apr 12 01:35:42 Anssi's Nokia World keynote last year is indicative of the sickness which may bring the company down in the long run. Apr 12 01:35:49 I can reach 30 words per second on the N900 keyboard Apr 12 01:35:52 but it's just broken Apr 12 01:35:56 so I turned it off Apr 12 01:36:00 javispedro, how did your gsoc application go so far Apr 12 01:36:28 * javispedro goes watch it Apr 12 01:36:41 javispedro, you're applying as a student? Apr 12 01:37:14 no GeneralAntilles - he applied for the janiters assistant role Apr 12 01:37:28 (yes he did Apr 12 01:37:35 lcuk, I'd figure he'd be better off as a mentor. ;) Apr 12 01:38:09 hm.. the application is gone. *calmly things it must be some weirdo temporary issue before yelling in panic* Apr 12 01:38:44 VDVsx says, "javispedro? I hate that guy!" Apr 12 01:39:03 lol Apr 12 01:39:22 GeneralAntilles: i applied as a student since this my last year as one :P (and still never applied...) Apr 12 01:39:29 before. Apr 12 01:40:02 kov, I'm off, a bit late for me (4:39), so.. ttyl :) Apr 12 01:40:24 mee to Apr 12 01:40:29 \o nn maemo Apr 12 01:40:30 * javispedro looks at the time. god Apr 12 01:40:35 Night :) Apr 12 01:40:36 gnite Apr 12 01:41:21 Wee, only 11 more stories to go! Apr 12 01:41:29 * javispedro has had its own share of doubts about gsoc, i even mailed the program manager... Apr 12 01:41:30 best time of the night, o.O Apr 12 01:41:47 you'll not get rid of me so easily! Apr 12 01:41:54 where's that op role when you need it Apr 12 01:43:01 ok ok I'll leave you to your endeavors, good night. Apr 12 01:44:24 nite Apr 12 01:44:27 erm Apr 12 01:46:23 Hi! Is there a pdf viewer in the repos that supports portait mode viewing? Apr 12 01:51:23 try evince Apr 12 01:52:01 I can't check right now, but I guess it knows portrait mode aka rotate-left/right Apr 12 01:52:30 the UI-widgets won't rotate though Apr 12 01:52:47 DocScrutinizer: Ok Apr 12 01:53:14 DocScrutinizer: Evince is in -devel right? Apr 12 01:53:31 not sure, but one of those Apr 12 01:55:18 * DocScrutinizer mumbles swearwords about FlatPlasticCables and Board2Board-connectors Apr 12 02:02:31 4 more. . . . Apr 12 02:03:57 GeneralAntilles: hm? Apr 12 02:04:08 http://mwkn.net Apr 12 02:04:45 ah Apr 12 02:05:26 wonder if anyone has looked into adding waypoints to GPSjinni Apr 12 02:13:11 ssvb, do you see anything wrong with this code? http://pastie.org/private/uhlbksu4igy79cqzrqjmja Apr 12 02:13:18 optimization wise, not logic Apr 12 02:14:05 Ebzzry: evince does Apr 12 02:14:28 ptl_demands_PR12: thanks Apr 12 02:18:48 does the kexec-tools package in extras-testing actually work?? Apr 12 02:23:52 is anyone using pidgin to for irc on the n900? Apr 12 02:24:06 eeeek pidgin Apr 12 02:24:24 I'd like to verify some bugs I experience. Apr 12 02:24:24 xchat ftw Apr 12 02:25:36 reminds me to unvoice all users with full-username 'purple' Apr 12 02:34:50 How do I activate evince's portrait mode, aside of course from using the rotate operations? Apr 12 02:39:52 does the N900 use OpenMAX? Apr 12 02:42:05 LiraNuna, I think so.. /lib/dsp/ ? Apr 12 02:42:15 ah awesome Apr 12 02:43:53 so nobody uses pidgin for irc on maemo? Apr 12 02:44:30 eew no, I just ssh to my server and attach my irssi screen Apr 12 02:44:31 <3 Apr 12 02:44:48 dmj726_n900: i'm using pidgin right now Apr 12 02:44:59 dmj726_n900: oh wait... but on my laptop :p Apr 12 02:45:08 dmj726_n900: maybe if it notifies like telepathy, as I mentioned earlier, I'd use it. Apr 12 02:45:29 it seems to work quite well, one bug aside. Apr 12 02:45:52 irssi is a very good irc client, but having scrolling up is a pain. Apr 12 02:46:00 s/having// Apr 12 02:46:00 Ebzzry meant: irssi is a very good irc client, but scrolling up is a pain. Apr 12 02:46:33 pidgin seems to occassionally open random links in microb when scrolling. Apr 12 02:46:45 heh, amusingly I prefer irssi over xchat for scroling up on n900 Apr 12 02:46:57 I myself use xchat on maemo. Apr 12 02:47:07 xchat on maemo isn't my cup of tea Apr 12 02:47:14 I use xchat on my desktop though Apr 12 02:47:16 ShadowJK: how do you scroll? Apr 12 02:47:25 it's just not hildonized enough for me Apr 12 02:47:32 only seems to happen in certain cases though and i wanted to see if anyone could replicate it. Apr 12 02:47:42 I press pageup? Apr 12 02:47:53 pidgin has nice kinetic scrolling. Apr 12 02:48:00 LiraNuna: using say irssi, how would you easily switch server contexts? Apr 12 02:48:07 I use irssi on my server with irssi-proxy now Apr 12 02:48:18 and then I connect to it with whatever I feel appropriate, I am on kvirc right now :) Apr 12 02:48:20 in xchat I have to use scrollbar Apr 12 02:48:30 I've setup my N900 xchat to automatically connect to it Apr 12 02:48:31 Ebzzry, /win 1, Ctrl+X Apr 12 02:48:37 other times I go through the terminal Apr 12 02:48:45 I use irssi on my server with irssi-proxy now Apr 12 02:48:46 <3 Apr 12 02:49:11 LiraNuna: that's a lot of keypresses, compared to a tap with xchat. Apr 12 02:49:18 I know Apr 12 02:49:28 I prefer xchat to irssi, however xchat maemo is horrible Apr 12 02:49:37 esc 1 instead of /win 1 works Apr 12 02:49:44 LiraNuna: in what ways is it horrible? Apr 12 02:50:44 too many to list Apr 12 02:51:45 * ShadowJK uses desktop .conf Apr 12 02:52:11 instead of the default maemo .conf Apr 12 02:52:36 hmm Apr 12 02:52:51 still, have any of you attempted to use pidgin for irc on the n900? Apr 12 02:54:01 dmj726_n900: what are you trying to get at? Apr 12 02:55:45 I'm trying to see if anyone can reproduce the bug I mentioned. Apr 12 02:58:34 connect to a high volume irc channel like #maemo Apr 12 02:59:02 leave it open for a while Apr 12 02:59:38 then try scrolling through it some. See if microb opens any links you didn't touch. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 12 02:59:56 2010