**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 15 02:59:56 2010
Apr 15 03:03:29 <opdf2> lol just realized there was an ovi store
Apr 15 03:03:51 <opdf2> i dont like that ovi isnt included in app man
Apr 15 03:18:17 <crashanddie> ~action
Apr 15 03:18:18 * infobot forgets what action did.
Apr 15 03:18:27 <crashanddie> ~cut
Apr 15 03:18:40 <crashanddie> ~scope
Apr 15 03:18:56 <crashanddie> ~answer
Apr 15 03:18:57 <infobot> 42
Apr 15 03:19:05 <crashanddie> ~thanks
Apr 15 03:19:05 <infobot> sure thing, crashanddie
Apr 15 03:19:15 <crashanddie> ~whoami
Apr 15 03:19:16 <infobot> you are crashanddie, or ~cb09b989@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie on #maemo and it's 2010.04.15. Don't believe me? Ask lpotter!
Apr 15 03:19:36 <crashanddie> lpotter: are you sure?
Apr 15 03:19:46 <crashanddie> ~ask me something
Apr 15 03:20:00 <crashanddie> ~bored
Apr 15 03:20:02 <infobot> La ... lalalala ... beer!
Apr 15 03:20:08 <crashanddie> ~beer?
Apr 15 03:20:09 * infobot has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
Apr 15 03:20:23 <crashanddie> ~nice
Apr 15 03:20:25 <infobot> i heard nice is prime example of SuperJuan, or a good term for GNOME a derogatory term meaning bland, boring, feeble, or just crap. Example: That's a nice haircut. a city in france, or a program that will run a program with a modified scheduling priority (from -20 to 19, where 19 is the lowest).
Apr 15 03:20:51 <crashanddie> ~joke
Apr 15 03:20:52 <infobot> A bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!"
Apr 15 03:21:11 <crashanddie> ~hitme
Apr 15 03:22:04 <crashanddie> ~lobotomy
Apr 15 03:22:05 <infobot> I feel different somehow.
Apr 15 03:22:19 <crashanddie> ~lobotomy GeneralAntilles
Apr 15 03:22:20 * infobot pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on GeneralAntilles
Apr 15 03:22:49 <crashanddie> ~awesome
Apr 15 03:22:50 <infobot> awesome is, like, a synonym of cheese.
Apr 15 03:22:57 <crashanddie> ~cheese
Apr 15 03:22:58 <infobot> from memory, cheese is pure awesomesause.  I love cheese.
Apr 15 03:23:07 <crashanddie> ~awesomesause
Apr 15 03:23:22 <crashanddie> ~qotd
Apr 15 03:23:24 <infobot> somebody said qotd was "Documention is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; and when it is bad, it is better than nothing."
Apr 15 03:26:36 <crashanddie> ~fact
Apr 15 03:26:37 <infobot> An automated system for managing small snippets of information.. URL: http://projects.ticons.com.au/fact/
Apr 15 03:26:40 <crashanddie> ~trivia
Apr 15 03:27:06 <opdf2> anyone using recaller? updated it now its...
Apr 15 03:49:17 <DocScrutinizer> ~literal lobotomy
Apr 15 03:49:18 <infobot> "lobotomy" is "<reply> I feel different somehow."
Apr 15 03:49:31 <DocScrutinizer> ~literal lobotomy x
Apr 15 03:49:32 * infobot pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on x
Apr 15 03:50:00 <DocScrutinizer> ploymorphism, nice :-)
Apr 15 03:50:47 <DocScrutinizer> ~literal "lobotomy x"
Apr 15 03:53:55 <DocScrutinizer> listkeys lobotomy
Apr 15 03:54:29 <DocScrutinizer> ~listkeys lobotomy
Apr 15 03:54:31 <infobot> Factoid search of 'lobotomy' by key (3): jargon lobotomy ;; lobotomy ;; cmd: lobotomy (.*?).
Apr 15 04:17:09 <slingr> ok
Apr 15 04:18:03 <slingr> so when i got my phone a couple weeks ago I knew it had two previous owners.  now that i'm getting to know my phone more i'm finding a lot of their left overs. so i guess what i'm wondering is if there is an easy way to send my phone back to complete virgin or something similar
Apr 15 04:25:17 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
Apr 15 04:25:17 <infobot> aw, gee, DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:27:20 <crashanddie> ~listkeys DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:27:22 <infobot> Factoid search of 'DocScrutinizer' by key (2): docscrutinizer ;; docscrutinizer #DEL#.
Apr 15 04:28:16 <DocScrutinizer> ~listvalues docscrutinizer
Apr 15 04:28:19 <infobot> Factoid search of 'docscrutinizer' by value (3): joerg #DEL# ;; debubo ;; joerg.
Apr 15 04:28:39 <crashanddie> ~DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:28:40 <infobot> from memory, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko
Apr 15 04:28:56 <opdf2> wow it is crazy how much cpu and battery AP news takes
Apr 15 04:29:03 <DocScrutinizer> ~upsidedown Why did you die when I told you 'upsidedown' last time?
Apr 15 04:29:21 <DocScrutinizer> ~ping
Apr 15 04:29:22 <infobot> ~pong
Apr 15 04:29:30 <crashanddie> ~upsidedown
Apr 15 04:29:36 <crashanddie> ~coincidence
Apr 15 04:29:46 <crashanddie> ~rambo
Apr 15 04:29:53 <crashanddie> ~freenode
Apr 15 04:29:55 <infobot> http://freenode.net/, or the bomb. where you are, man.
Apr 15 04:30:21 <crashanddie> ~forget about DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:30:21 <infobot> crashanddie: i didn't have anything called 'about docscrutinizer' to forget
Apr 15 04:30:42 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: do you want thyself removeth from infobot ?
Apr 15 04:31:58 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: do you want thyself removeth from infobot ?
Apr 15 04:33:01 <DocScrutinizer> why?
Apr 15 04:34:11 <DocScrutinizer> infobot won't forget me   <3
Apr 15 04:36:53 <DocScrutinizer> try if you don't believe :-P
Apr 15 04:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: c'mon
Apr 15 04:39:21 <crashanddie> ~forget DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:39:21 <infobot> cannot alter locked factoids, crashanddie
Apr 15 04:39:25 <crashanddie> lmao
Apr 15 04:39:29 <crashanddie> ~unlock DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:39:53 <crashanddie> ~requestunlock DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:45:23 <crashanddie> infobot: you should listen to me
Apr 15 04:45:41 <crashanddie> NO VOICE FOR YOU!
Apr 15 04:45:44 <slonopotamus> o_O
Apr 15 04:46:28 <slonopotamus> crashanddie: you can stop him talking, but you can't change his mind :)
Apr 15 04:46:38 <crashanddie> ~talk
Apr 15 04:46:59 <crashanddie> ~say something
Apr 15 04:47:00 <infobot> something
Apr 15 04:48:19 <slonopotamus> infobot: surrender
Apr 15 04:48:21 <infobot> it has been said that surrender is when one ceases to fight back for what one believes in and gives up hope
Apr 15 04:48:44 <crashanddie> ~war
Apr 15 04:48:46 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, war is the reasonable response of a nation forced to turn to the rest of the world for valuable energy resources but not wanting to deal fairly in an open marketplace with truly equal players
Apr 15 04:48:51 <slonopotamus> meh
Apr 15 04:49:01 <slonopotamus> quick, anyone has glib commit access? :) fix a bug
Apr 15 04:49:20 <crashanddie> slonopotamus: DIE
Apr 15 04:49:22 <crashanddie> woops
Apr 15 04:49:24 <crashanddie> infobot: DIE
Apr 15 04:49:25 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.
Apr 15 04:49:35 <DocScrutinizer> ~scramble crashanddie
Apr 15 04:49:36 <infobot> cddiasrnahe
Apr 15 04:49:37 * slonopotamus takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.
Apr 15 04:49:44 <crashanddie> ~scramble DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:49:45 <infobot> DioczctnSueirr
Apr 15 04:49:56 <crashanddie> lol slonopotamus
Apr 15 04:50:11 <crashanddie> ~scramble 13WAAOONI
Apr 15 04:50:13 <infobot> 1NAWOA3OI
Apr 15 04:50:25 <crashanddie> doesn't make any more sense
Apr 15 04:50:33 <crashanddie> ~rot13 DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:50:33 <infobot> QbpFpehgvavmre
Apr 15 04:50:57 <DocScrutinizer> ~rot13 QbpFpehgvavmre
Apr 15 04:50:58 <infobot> DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:51:02 <crashanddie> it would be nice if we had an infobot on the n900
Apr 15 04:51:25 <crashanddie> with voice recognition
Apr 15 04:51:37 <DocScrutinizer> ~stats
Apr 15 04:51:37 <infobot> Since Tue Apr 13 05:37:01 2010, there have been 25 modifications, 123 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 94 commands.  I have been awake for 1d 23h 14m 36s this session, and currently reference 116951 factoids.  I'm using about 21308 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 5154.73/158.47 child 0.09/0.03
Apr 15 04:51:59 <crashanddie> ~reset
Apr 15 04:52:00 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, reset is not influencing the message about the kernel on hyper terminal
Apr 15 04:52:12 <crashanddie> ~maemo
Apr 15 04:52:13 <infobot> maemo is, like, http://maemo.nokia.com/ http://maemo.org/ http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml
Apr 15 04:52:16 <crashanddie> ~ipad
Apr 15 04:52:17 <infobot> Intelligent vector drawing package. URL: http://www.demon.co.uk/titan/, or a new gadget released by Apple, and agreed by most geeks to be a failwhale, even though it sold 300,000 units on its first day.
Apr 15 04:52:24 <crashanddie> hehehe
Apr 15 04:52:40 <crashanddie> ~ipod
Apr 15 04:52:41 <infobot> methinks ipod is a purty silver and white box, or deffinitly not bigger then a bread box.
Apr 15 04:53:00 <crashanddie> ~deffintly
Apr 15 04:53:16 <crashanddie> ~gmaps moncul
Apr 15 04:53:32 <crashanddie> ~map moncul
Apr 15 04:53:43 <crashanddie> ~draw square
Apr 15 04:53:58 <crashanddie> ~bored
Apr 15 04:53:59 <infobot> La ... lalalala ... beer!
Apr 15 04:54:06 <crashanddie> ~joke
Apr 15 04:54:07 <infobot> A bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!"
Apr 15 04:54:13 <crashanddie> ~joke
Apr 15 04:55:16 <DocScrutinizer> http://infobot.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/infobot/trunk/files/infobot.help
Apr 15 04:55:58 <DocScrutinizer> ~tell crashanddie about irc /query
Apr 15 04:57:01 <crashanddie> ~do #maemo ban DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:57:02 * infobot does #maemo ban DocScrutinizer.
Apr 15 04:57:14 <crashanddie> ~facepalm
Apr 15 04:57:15 * infobot facepalms at the situation
Apr 15 04:57:30 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Apr 15 04:58:03 <crashanddie> ~factinfo DocScrutinizer
Apr 15 04:58:03 <infobot> docscrutinizer -- created by DocScrutinizer <n=jr-N810@p5493F5D9.dip.t-dialin.net> at Thu Oct 23 11:54:37 2008 (538 days); it has been requested 23 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 19m 49s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer.
Apr 15 04:58:17 <crashanddie> how the fuck did you lock it?
Apr 15 04:58:26 <crashanddie> ~factinfo ipad
Apr 15 04:58:26 <infobot> ipad -- last modified at Tue Apr  6 02:19:43 2010 by crashanddie!~cb09b989@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie; it has been requested 5 times, last by crashanddie, 6m 9s ago.
Apr 15 05:03:37 <crashanddie> ~scamble lcuk
Apr 15 05:03:46 <crashanddie> ~scramble lcuk
Apr 15 05:03:47 <infobot> luck
Apr 15 05:03:55 <crashanddie> yay \o/
Apr 15 05:06:22 <DocScrutinizer> ~scramble luck
Apr 15 05:06:23 <infobot> lcuk
Apr 15 05:06:29 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Apr 15 05:07:53 <DocScrutinizer> ~lcuk is <reply>lcuk is, like luck spelled backwards, or a lucky guy
Apr 15 05:07:54 <infobot> ...but lcuk is already something else...
Apr 15 05:08:02 <DocScrutinizer> ~lcuk
Apr 15 05:08:03 <infobot> i guess lcuk is a tosser
Apr 15 05:08:20 <DocScrutinizer> ~factinfo lcuk
Apr 15 05:08:21 <infobot> lcuk -- created by qwerty12_N810 <n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk> at Mon Aug 31 21:54:33 2009 (226 days); it has been requested once, last by DocScrutinizer, 17s ago.
Apr 15 05:09:05 <DocScrutinizer> ~no, lcuk is <reply>lcuk is, like luck spelled backwards, or a lucky guy
Apr 15 05:09:29 <crashanddie> ~no, lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.
Apr 15 05:09:36 <crashanddie> ~no lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.
Apr 15 05:09:37 <infobot> okay, crashanddie
Apr 15 05:10:10 <DocScrutinizer> ~lcuk
Apr 15 05:10:12 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.
Apr 15 05:15:24 <opdf2> anyway to delete tags under a sharing service?
Apr 15 05:54:33 <crashanddie> Damn
Apr 15 05:54:43 <crashanddie> andrewfblack has a virus
Apr 15 05:55:03 <Stskeeps> hm?
Apr 15 05:57:03 <crashanddie> he's sending spam to the meego-community mailing lists
Apr 15 05:57:41 <Stskeeps> ah, i see
Apr 15 05:57:52 <Stskeeps> or it got hacked
Apr 15 05:57:57 <oscillik> oops
Apr 15 06:09:32 <Khertan> yep
Apr 15 06:09:48 <Khertan> also send  me email privatly
Apr 15 06:11:21 <TigerTael> nice
Apr 15 06:12:09 <mece> sadf
Apr 15 06:12:14 <Khertan> Rah ! Sending email via mfe is reliable !
Apr 15 06:12:52 <Khertan> Rah ! Sending email via mfe isn t reliable !
Apr 15 06:14:33 <luke-jr> sending email hasn't been reliable since idiot sysadmins began silently dropping false positives
Apr 15 06:22:51 * noobmonk3y is struggling to wake up!
Apr 15 06:24:24 <GAN900> Whew
Apr 15 06:25:14 <Stskeeps> moo
Apr 15 06:25:21 <Stskeeps> how's stuff?
Apr 15 06:26:17 <GAN900> Getting ready to play with my new Nexus One. :p
Apr 15 06:26:38 <GAN900> Lots of great activity today.
Apr 15 06:26:40 <Stskeeps> ah, yes
Apr 15 06:26:40 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 15 06:26:49 * noobmonk3y moo's at Stskeeps 
Apr 15 06:26:54 <Stskeeps> so you're jumping ship or did there come out any good results of the imad/ari talks?
Apr 15 06:27:18 <GAN900> The Google guy gave the whole room free phones.
Apr 15 06:27:22 <Stskeeps> yeah, i heard
Apr 15 06:27:24 <GAN900> I'm thinking ebay. ;)
Apr 15 06:27:32 <Stskeeps> no 'not for sale' logos?
Apr 15 06:27:35 <noobmonk3y> lol
Apr 15 06:27:37 <GAN900> Nothing interesting from the MeeGo talks.
Apr 15 06:27:57 <GAN900> Thursday will be the day
Apr 15 06:28:06 <GAN900> MeeGo workshop
Apr 15 06:28:08 <crashanddie> GAN900: you have a nexus one?
Apr 15 06:28:09 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Apr 15 06:28:14 <crashanddie> GAN900: so you gave in to Android?
Apr 15 06:28:36 <GAN900> had some nice chats with Quim, Dawn, Roland, Henri and Dimmitri today
Apr 15 06:28:49 <GAN900> crashanddie, eBay. :p
Apr 15 06:28:55 <Stskeeps> disillusioned or not? ;)
Apr 15 06:29:01 <crashanddie> GAN900: anyone talking about all the companies endorsing meego? BMW, etc?
Apr 15 06:29:12 <GAN900> crashanddie, Ari did a bit
Apr 15 06:29:15 <crashanddie> GAN900: I might be interested, I have to send my n900 back and won't really have funds to buy anything
Apr 15 06:29:35 <GAN900> The Maemo Community Council was dropped from the slide on it, though. :(
Apr 15 06:29:42 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Apr 15 06:29:47 <Stskeeps> GAN900: and collabora :P
Apr 15 06:29:49 <crashanddie> GAN900: not the same message, you know that
Apr 15 06:30:04 <GAN900> Yeah, yeah. :P
Apr 15 06:30:25 <crashanddie> GAN900: I'd rather people take meego seriously because they see acer, asus, bmw and cisco than go "who the fuck are the jedis in their basement on the maemo community council?"
Apr 15 06:30:36 <Jaffa> GAN900: Bah, free phone - wish I was there
Apr 15 06:30:48 <crashanddie> were
Apr 15 06:30:49 <crashanddie> :P
Apr 15 06:31:05 <crashanddie> moin Jaffa
Apr 15 06:31:17 <GAN900> Jaffa, wish you were too.
Apr 15 06:32:55 <GAN900> The crowd and the Android guy almost came to blows over Google not sending kernel patches upstream.
Apr 15 06:33:26 <Stskeeps> any recordings up yet
Apr 15 06:33:26 <Stskeeps> ?
Apr 15 06:33:31 <Stskeeps> the stream was fucking laggy
Apr 15 06:33:35 <crashanddie> GAN900: can you watch a youtube video?
Apr 15 06:33:44 <GAN900> "Well, which company is delivering a product and sending patches? Huh?"
Apr 15 06:33:50 <GAN900> Um, Nokia. . . .
Apr 15 06:33:56 <GAN900> crashanddie, on EDGE
Apr 15 06:34:09 <crashanddie> GAN900: is that a yes or no/
Apr 15 06:34:50 <GAN900> crashanddie, if you give me about 10 minutes
Apr 15 06:34:54 <crashanddie> GAN900: just find some goddamned wifi :P
Apr 15 06:35:14 <crashanddie> GAN900: will PM it, just watch it when you have a moment
Apr 15 06:35:59 <larsivi> I installed scratchbox+maemo (gui installer) yesterday - however I'd like to create a PR1.1 target too (to be able to properly test on an actual device) - are there any descriptions out there on how to do that?
Apr 15 06:36:18 <GAN900> Stskeeps, no clue.
Apr 15 06:37:11 <crashanddie> "Do you trust IE? Any version of it?"
Apr 15 06:37:25 <crashanddie> "Sure, I trust it will crap out and crash everything at the worst possible moment"
Apr 15 06:37:30 <GAN900> Henri's Nexus One booted to the bootloader because the battery was low
Apr 15 06:37:31 <GAN900> weird
Apr 15 06:39:22 <noobmonk3y> larsivi, no idea sorry
Apr 15 06:43:23 <mece> hey what phone is thisguy using: http://meegoportal.com/?p=102 ?
Apr 15 06:46:14 <noobmonk3y> there is an argument on the forums about it
Apr 15 06:46:16 <mece> Is it the rumored N9xx or a phone that everyone knows about but me?
Apr 15 06:46:51 <mece> noobmonk3y, where would that be?
Apr 15 06:47:00 <noobmonk3y> Peeps seem to say Aava or LG
Apr 15 06:47:25 <noobmonk3y> lol mece, not like you to not use the search??!?!
Apr 15 06:47:26 <noobmonk3y> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50050&highlight=meego
Apr 15 06:49:44 <mece> noobmonk3y, feeling lazy :)
Apr 15 06:49:52 <mece> noobmonk3y, thanks :)
Apr 15 06:50:06 <noobmonk3y> :D
Apr 15 06:51:48 * noobmonk3y has fed and watered the trolls, time for work i feel :D
Apr 15 07:16:19 <Sentri> is it normal that I see some odd 1.7G /opt/pymaemo stuff on df -h ?
Apr 15 07:16:44 <Sentri> I don't remember seeing them before
Apr 15 07:18:08 <DocScrutinizer> 1.7GB ??  o.O
Apr 15 07:18:37 <Sentri> sec ill pastebin the
Apr 15 07:18:40 <Sentri> them
Apr 15 07:21:16 <Sentri> http://pastebin.com/mKwUitud
Apr 15 07:22:12 <adeus> normal
Apr 15 07:22:13 <Wolfie> isn't that 1.7gb available, not used?
Apr 15 07:22:19 <DocScrutinizer> used 172.4M    free  1.7G
Apr 15 07:23:30 <Sentri> but i remember it being different before
Apr 15 07:23:48 <Sentri> sane as this page shows http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_filesystem
Apr 15 07:24:52 <mece> Sentri, it's normal. It's the python optifying that does that.
Apr 15 07:24:52 <adeus> I have 501M used
Apr 15 07:25:43 <Sentri> ok thanks
Apr 15 07:58:05 <cityLights> hi all
Apr 15 07:59:09 <cityLights> my catalogs where magiclly wiped out. in which file are these? can anyone send me the default catalog file?
Apr 15 08:00:40 <pupnik> cityLights: can you rephrase your question?
Apr 15 08:00:57 <cityLights> hi pupnik
Apr 15 08:01:34 <pupnik> describe what you tried to do, then expected vs observed behavior
Apr 15 08:01:49 <cityLights> when I go in to the App. manager and click update I get an error message  , that no catalogs are available
Apr 15 08:02:02 <pupnik> lemme try
Apr 15 08:02:20 <pupnik> connection too poor
Apr 15 08:03:02 <cityLights> indeed if I click the catalogs the list is empty
Apr 15 08:03:40 <cityLights> the Nokia system updates is missing
Apr 15 08:04:12 <cityLights> and so I ask, pupnik, where are the catalogs stored?
Apr 15 08:04:23 <NuD1t7> Should I be worried when I just bought a new Nokia N900 and had to run only one update ... and yesterday it started to do the "reboot"-bug/problem ... hw 32 something in bootreason ... been up for 12h now though
Apr 15 08:04:55 <mece> hey! A survey: http://maemo.nokia.com/survey/
Apr 15 08:05:40 <cityLights> pupnik: odd, I run it again , and now all is fine.
Apr 15 08:05:44 <cityLights> why?
Apr 15 08:05:47 <TigerTael> NuD1t7, if you haven't fiddled with anything, sounds like you might have cause for alarm.
Apr 15 08:05:48 <pupnik> cityLights: that is probably due to a connection error with the software repository.  try again later
Apr 15 08:05:58 <pupnik> heh
Apr 15 08:06:36 <TigerTael> I am SOOOOO glad that the N900 can bring itself out of sleep/power off to sound the alarm.
Apr 15 08:06:58 <TigerTael> However, the one morning, Saturday morning, it woke me up early because I just turned off the phone thinking that the alarm wouldn't sound. ;/
Apr 15 08:07:03 <cityLights> was pr 1.2 released yet? its been more then a month since sevral bug where marked fix , and wherent published to the common welth
Apr 15 08:07:09 <cityLights> walth
Apr 15 08:07:17 <TigerTael> wealth.
Apr 15 08:07:24 <cityLights> sorry
Apr 15 08:07:27 <TigerTael> np
Apr 15 08:08:14 <Treibholz> first Overclocking-talk, now PR1.2-Release-talk..
Apr 15 08:08:36 <Treibholz> hmm, is there a bullshitbingo-script for irssi? :-)
Apr 15 08:08:49 <NuD1t7> TigerTael well installed/uninstalled some programs ... only had one problem and that was related to the downloading and extracting of debian.img.v5-somethingblaablaa
Apr 15 08:09:16 <TigerTael> hrm...
Apr 15 08:09:24 <cityLights> sorry Treibholz
Apr 15 08:09:26 <NuD1t7> unistalled the "easy debian" last night ... the phone hasn�t rebooted itself after that
Apr 15 08:09:42 <Treibholz> cityLights: no problem, hehe :-)
Apr 15 08:09:51 <TigerTael> NuD1t7, I haven't tested any of those advanced packages myself, but I have not had 1 reboot with my phone since I've had it.
Apr 15 08:10:04 <TigerTael> But I haven't fiddled with the power settings either.
Apr 15 08:10:04 <NuD1t7> heh k
Apr 15 08:10:17 <TigerTael> You know that power saving feature on the CPU.
Apr 15 08:10:50 <NuD1t7> nope
Apr 15 08:10:59 <TigerTael> But keep asking other users, maybe they've had more experience with easydebian, etc.
Apr 15 08:11:09 <NuD1t7> haven't even oc'd it ...yet
Apr 15 08:11:37 <TigerTael> I'm not going to overclock mine... I am interested in underclocking it though.
Apr 15 08:12:31 <pupnik> good choice
Apr 15 08:15:07 <X-Fade> Hmm andrewfblack should stop clicking on all dodgy links. Nice spam.
Apr 15 08:16:25 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: his facebook got hacked and they then hacked his gmail it seems like :P
Apr 15 08:18:05 <mece> who's hacking what now?
Apr 15 08:18:41 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Don't know but got a few spams directly coming from his gmail at least.
Apr 15 08:33:01 <nid0> that was a pretty mammoth survey
Apr 15 08:34:26 <Scelt> yeah, it has taken already 30 minutes
Apr 15 08:34:45 <Scelt> and I notice that I'm getting to the point on just clicking something to get rid of it
Apr 15 08:36:32 <visz> any idea if you can get finnish keyboard for n900 from nokia discounted devices program?
Apr 15 08:36:51 <visz> 240€ seems like a nice price
Apr 15 08:37:33 <paul_____> any ideas if there is a dfault lock code set on the n900? as i've set one i belive and wantc to chance it and don't know what it is to chance
Apr 15 08:38:05 <AdamGogarty> id like to know this also
Apr 15 08:38:29 <Stskeeps> paul_____: 12345
Apr 15 08:39:01 <SpeedEvil> 12345
Apr 15 08:39:11 <Scelt> 12345
Apr 15 08:40:22 <paul_____> ty :)
Apr 15 08:40:30 <paul_____> i tried all sorts just not that lol
Apr 15 08:40:39 <Khertan_Home> Hi !
Apr 15 08:41:00 <Khertan_Home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZlY5oN2qC4&feature=player_embedded <<<< there is already some version of meego with a working gui ?
Apr 15 08:41:25 <X-Fade> Khertan_Home: Sure, Moblin.
Apr 15 08:41:49 <Khertan_Home> Moblin ... so not open source :)
Apr 15 08:42:01 <achipa> does ncurses count as a *G*ui ?
Apr 15 08:42:15 <X-Fade> This is just Netbook UX.
Apr 15 08:42:43 <Khertan_Home> yep ... but i mean ... this isn't something release
Apr 15 08:42:53 <Khertan_Home> just a thing for demo purpose
Apr 15 08:42:55 <Stskeeps> achipa: we have ncurses?
Apr 15 08:42:56 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 15 08:43:07 <X-Fade> Khertan_Home: No, that is just the meego netbook release?
Apr 15 08:43:19 <Khertan_Home> ah ...
Apr 15 08:43:24 <paul_____> is there a clinet like ebuddy for the phone i remeber it started with p?
Apr 15 08:44:12 <Khertan_Home> so i should try it on my netbook :)
Apr 15 08:44:29 <X-Fade> But 1.0 will be release in May.
Apr 15 08:44:39 <Khertan_Home> thx X-Fade
Apr 15 08:44:58 <Khertan_Home> X-Fade, yep ... but try :) not something for daily use
Apr 15 08:45:58 <ptl> paul_____: pidgin
Apr 15 08:46:41 <paul_____> ty ptl
Apr 15 08:48:00 <paul_____> no good don't suport facebook chat :(
Apr 15 08:57:00 <TigerTael> What paul was thinking of might be Palringo.
Apr 15 08:58:46 <crashanddie> bloody hell
Apr 15 08:58:51 <crashanddie> and they say our world isn't connected
Apr 15 09:00:04 <crashanddie> My gf, who lives in France, was supposed to go back to work today (in London). I told her I didn't want her to go. Now she's pissed at me, because some volcano in Iceland has disrupted air travel throughout Europe... and somehow it's my fault?
Apr 15 09:00:18 <crashanddie> (I am in Australia)
Apr 15 09:00:45 <bilboed-pi> ... volcano in iceland disrupted air travel ? wtf ?
Apr 15 09:00:48 <Khertan_Home> ouch was just looking at moblin ... there is so few supported netbook
Apr 15 09:01:07 <visz> bilboed-pi, ash in the atmosphere
Apr 15 09:01:15 <bilboed-pi> ah right, just found the newsreport
Apr 15 09:01:16 <Stskeeps> bilboed-pi: ash in atmosphere =very very bad for planes
Apr 15 09:01:17 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 15 09:01:43 <Treibholz> can I somehow change the priority of my jabber-resource?
Apr 15 09:01:57 <X-Fade> Sandblasting the engine blades. Nice ;)
Apr 15 09:02:38 <Treibholz> the jabber-client in maemo is really ... let's call it ... it has a lot of potential!
Apr 15 09:03:30 <crashanddie> bilboed-pi: dust cloud
Apr 15 09:03:53 <crashanddie> X-Fade: did you see those pictures of helicopters landing in iraq?
Apr 15 09:03:53 <bilboed-pi> s/dust/ash/, but yes
Apr 15 09:03:56 <bilboed-pi> damn...
Apr 15 09:04:25 <crashanddie> X-Fade: where the dust in the air was sandblasting the blades and creating sparks -- actually eating away at the blades?
Apr 15 09:05:36 <X-Fade> crashanddie: I've seen those pictures yes.
Apr 15 09:06:25 <SpeedEvil> Hmm. Anyone with the mugen battery - can you comment on if there is free space in the back?
Apr 15 09:07:13 <crashanddie> for anyone else who hasn't seen the pictures, damned cool: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/the-kopp-etchells-effect.htm
Apr 15 09:07:34 <X-Fade> crashanddie: Just wanted to link you those ;)
Apr 15 09:07:52 <X-Fade> crashanddie: Titanium plates on the blades ;)
Apr 15 09:08:47 <crashanddie> X-Fade: could you comment on the meego security thread?
Apr 15 09:09:05 <X-Fade> No, I can't comment on that list.
Apr 15 09:09:16 <crashanddie> oh really?
Apr 15 09:09:26 <crashanddie> like, from a contract perspective?
Apr 15 09:09:26 <X-Fade> My host is blocked there :)
Apr 15 09:09:31 <crashanddie> aww
Apr 15 09:09:37 <crashanddie> just create a bloody gmail account
Apr 15 09:10:08 <X-Fade> Perhaps, it is just a pain.
Apr 15 09:10:35 <crashanddie> X-Fade: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001587.html
Apr 15 09:10:45 <crashanddie> X-Fade: I was asking you questions, not realising you didn't read it
Apr 15 09:13:33 <X-Fade> I did skim it, but meego is not my highest priority as I'm really not involved in it.
Apr 15 09:16:04 <X-Fade> crashanddie: But basically every service run in separate db, separate user, separate machine.
Apr 15 09:16:13 <X-Fade> *runs
Apr 15 09:16:28 <crashanddie> perfect, exactly what I wanted to hear
Apr 15 09:16:45 <crashanddie> I didn't like the fact the guy talked about Apache and wanted to draw comparisons with MeeGo/Maemo
Apr 15 09:16:55 <X-Fade> ISP manages the basic platform security updates.
Apr 15 09:16:58 <crashanddie> because Apache have been known and laughed at for doing everything on each of their machines
Apr 15 09:17:31 <X-Fade> We have seperated everything out.
Apr 15 09:17:52 <X-Fade> That is why we even went to drop.maemo.org for ssh access (dput and git+ssh)
Apr 15 09:17:53 <crashanddie> Each machine will have public SSH, /etc/passwd shared with 20 web apps, and absolutely no segregation
Apr 15 09:18:16 <crashanddie> And then people are surprised that by compromising one web app, everything is clusterfucked
Apr 15 09:18:19 <X-Fade> We don't have outside ssh access to web facing services.
Apr 15 09:18:34 <crashanddie> X-Fade: ok, thanks, do you mind if I relay that information to the ML?
Apr 15 09:18:40 <X-Fade> Other than the drop vm.
Apr 15 09:19:22 <X-Fade> Services run in DMZ with firewall and loadbalancers in front of it.
Apr 15 09:19:23 <crashanddie> X-Fade: do I have any chance if I ask you to throw a stupid visio diagram that shows all the things? Not urgent, at all, just on the back of your to-do list?
Apr 15 09:19:47 <crashanddie> Is Maemo related too :-*
Apr 15 09:20:12 <X-Fade> Well, yes and no.
Apr 15 09:20:36 <X-Fade> I don't see public community access to the servers happen.
Apr 15 09:20:46 <crashanddie> never asked for that
Apr 15 09:20:49 <X-Fade> So in the end it is a nice to know, but what can one do with that info.
Apr 15 09:21:04 <crashanddie> keep trolls from screaming "WE NEED SECURITY"
Apr 15 09:21:31 <X-Fade> I'm very good at ignoring trolls ;)
Apr 15 09:21:46 <Khertan_Home> Khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-155-1-32-240.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) a rejoint #maemo < oups ! where is this machine !
Apr 15 09:21:50 <crashanddie> I know you are, you've been doing a great job at ignoring me at the summit :P
Apr 15 09:22:06 <X-Fade> lol, what did I do there :)
Apr 15 09:23:30 <crashanddie> I offered to buy you a beer 3 times over 3 days, and 3 times you said "Yeah sure, give me a few minutes"
Apr 15 09:24:41 <nid0> here's a news line you dont see every day
Apr 15 09:24:44 <nid0> Hence the company study, in which 16 Dorset sheep weighing from 26 to 78 kg were given various doses of methamphetamine (four unlucky control animals got none at all) and were then repeatedly zapped with a Taser X26 "compliance device".
Apr 15 09:24:58 <pupnik> does that happen to you often, crashanddie ?
Apr 15 09:25:03 <lardman> morning all
Apr 15 09:25:47 <crashanddie> pupnik: not really, that's why I remember it!
Apr 15 09:25:52 <X-Fade> crashanddie: I remember sitting in the same bar, opposite to you.
Apr 15 09:25:53 <crashanddie> moin lardman
Apr 15 09:26:10 <crashanddie> X-Fade: eh?
Apr 15 09:26:18 <crashanddie> X-Fade: nha, we never got together
Apr 15 09:26:29 <X-Fade> crashanddie: hotel lobby bar?
Apr 15 09:26:43 <crashanddie> oh
Apr 15 09:26:45 <crashanddie> maybe
Apr 15 09:26:58 <crashanddie> but then I was inhibriated, so that doesn't count
Apr 15 09:27:22 <crashanddie> X-Fade: I wasn't at the same hotel as you though
Apr 15 09:28:21 <X-Fade> Or I was. Don't know.
Apr 15 09:28:51 <X-Fade> I'm not known to ignore beer offers :)
Apr 15 09:30:06 <lardman> X-Fade: so how come I'm not on the front page anymore? Did I not offer enough beer...? ;)
Apr 15 09:30:19 <X-Fade> lardman: That effect wears off.
Apr 15 09:30:26 <lardman> lol
Apr 15 09:30:32 <X-Fade> lardman: You need to continue to offer beer :)
Apr 15 09:30:56 <lardman> of course, next meetup, no worries :)
Apr 15 09:31:38 * lardman thinks to himself that if it's in Amsterdam again he'll need to sell a kidney to afford X-Fade's beer too ;)
Apr 15 09:32:13 <X-Fade> The London rumours are growing :)
Apr 15 09:32:20 <X-Fade> So can't be that bad.
Apr 15 09:32:26 <crashanddie> London rumours?
Apr 15 09:32:31 <crashanddie> As in, next summit in London?
Apr 15 09:32:47 <frals> wasnt that some forum nokia shebangthingy?
Apr 15 09:32:48 <X-Fade> A LF preffered location it seems.
Apr 15 09:32:58 <lardman> LF?
Apr 15 09:33:01 <crashanddie> Linux Foundation
Apr 15 09:33:01 <BCMM> do i have to click on each update in turn in app manager? can i just use apt-get instead?
Apr 15 09:33:03 <frals> linux foundation
Apr 15 09:33:04 <lardman> ah
Apr 15 09:33:12 <X-Fade> wow, that was bad spelling ;)
Apr 15 09:33:14 <crashanddie> BCMM: click on the menu, there's an update all
Apr 15 09:33:16 <Treibholz> BCMM: you can.
Apr 15 09:33:27 <pupnik> LF?
Apr 15 09:33:32 <crashanddie> Linux Foundation
Apr 15 09:33:51 <lardman> infobot: LF stands for Linux Foundation
Apr 15 09:33:52 <infobot> stands for Linux Foundation: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?
Apr 15 09:34:05 <BCMM> thanks, both of those are useful
Apr 15 09:34:06 <lardman> stupid bot
Apr 15 09:34:22 <X-Fade> infobot: LF is Linux Foundation
Apr 15 09:34:23 <infobot> is Linux Foundation: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?
Apr 15 09:34:31 <lardman> ~LF
Apr 15 09:34:40 <crashanddie> ~LF is shorthand for Linux Foundation, more info at www.linuxfoundation.org
Apr 15 09:34:42 <infobot> is shorthand for Linux Foundation, more info at www.linuxfoundation.org: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?
Apr 15 09:34:47 <crashanddie> gotdamn
Apr 15 09:34:49 <crashanddie> ~forget lf
Apr 15 09:34:50 <infobot> crashanddie: i didn't have anything called 'lf' to forget
Apr 15 09:34:50 <lardman> lol
Apr 15 09:35:10 <crashanddie> ~factoid
Apr 15 09:35:12 <X-Fade> ~learn LF is Linux Foundation
Apr 15 09:35:13 <infobot> X-Fade: I think you lost me on that one
Apr 15 09:35:17 <Scelt> :-D
Apr 15 09:35:27 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: you've broken it you twat
Apr 15 09:35:31 <crashanddie> anyway
Apr 15 09:35:35 <crashanddie> back to the rant that was brewing
Apr 15 09:35:52 <crashanddie> The year that I decide to go live on the other side of the planet, the fucking summit will be in London, WHERE I USED TO LIVE?
Apr 15 09:36:05 <lardman> crashanddie: perfect excuse to move back ;)
Apr 15 09:36:15 <jacekowski> i hate london
Apr 15 09:36:15 <X-Fade> crashanddie: I'm ok with AU too.
Apr 15 09:36:24 <lardman> yeah AU would be nice
Apr 15 09:36:31 <jacekowski> i'm there at least twice a month and ussualy by car
Apr 15 09:36:45 <jacekowski> au is far away
Apr 15 09:36:46 <crashanddie> too far to travel guys
Apr 15 09:36:56 <jacekowski> and they walk upside down
Apr 15 09:36:58 <lardman> jacekowski: hmm, I try to avoid driving cars in London these days
Apr 15 09:36:59 <crashanddie> 25h on a plane? $2k to fly back and forth?
Apr 15 09:37:14 <lardman> crashanddie: sponsorship!
Apr 15 09:37:19 <jacekowski> crashanddie: and you risk that you might fell of the earth
Apr 15 09:37:30 <jacekowski> crashanddie: because of being upside down
Apr 15 09:37:39 <crashanddie> jacekowski: that joke was funny 25 years ago, the first time it was told
Apr 15 09:37:57 <jacekowski> that was mean
Apr 15 09:38:04 <Treibholz> some jokes get better, the more often you hear them!
Apr 15 09:38:20 <pupnik> is there a drama club nearby? perhaps another outlet would do crashanddie good
Apr 15 09:38:40 <crashanddie> pupnik: did I do something to you lately?
Apr 15 09:38:51 <lardman> pupnik: ah, leave him alone, he's far away from us all and missing us
Apr 15 09:38:56 <lardman> ;)
Apr 15 09:38:58 <crashanddie> YESH!
Apr 15 09:39:01 <crashanddie> I mish you all :(
Apr 15 09:39:09 <pupnik> :
Apr 15 09:39:11 <pupnik> )
Apr 15 09:39:17 <crashanddie> I mean, it's like nearly 8PM here, and only morning for most of you :*(
Apr 15 09:39:24 <pupnik> have a good day all
Apr 15 09:39:42 <jacekowski> they do emu racing in australia
Apr 15 09:39:53 <jacekowski> and you need kangaroo driving license if you plan to go onto main roads
Apr 15 09:39:59 <Scelt> http://apina.biz/28509
Apr 15 09:40:14 <jacekowski> and it's british prison colony
Apr 15 09:40:18 <crashanddie> jacekowski: seriously, it's not funny
Apr 15 09:40:39 <achipa> crashanddie: it was funny enough to hear Qole on the Summit wish good night to his family just as he woke u :D
Apr 15 09:40:47 <achipa> u=up
Apr 15 09:41:04 <crashanddie> achipa: may be funny, trust me, it gets a whole less funny when you have to do it every day for 4 months
Apr 15 09:41:31 <crashanddie> achipa: or you have to wake up at 4AM so that your boss can call you
Apr 15 09:41:41 <crashanddie> achipa: or you have to stay up until 2AM for a conf call
Apr 15 09:41:45 <jacekowski> i go to sleep at 3AM
Apr 15 09:41:56 <jacekowski> and wake up at 7:40AM
Apr 15 09:41:59 <crashanddie> jacekowski: yeah but you're an unemployed bum who lives in his mother's basement
Apr 15 09:42:03 <crashanddie> you live off pizza and coke
Apr 15 09:42:07 <jacekowski> crashanddie: no
Apr 15 09:42:12 <jacekowski> i'm at work at the moment
Apr 15 09:42:12 <achipa> crashanddie: I still have a 'good [insert your time of the day]' script for a good buddy of mine who lives in NZ :)
Apr 15 09:42:45 <crashanddie> achipa: the day I greet my family over IRC is the day I know I have lost the very few surviving sparks of sanity
Apr 15 09:42:57 <X-Fade> The thing with versions is, I don't like to touch the packaging itself.
Apr 15 09:43:15 <crashanddie> how do you open your food then?
Apr 15 09:43:17 <X-Fade> Hmm that was for Jaffa ;)
Apr 15 09:43:18 <crashanddie> no packaging?
Apr 15 09:43:24 <achipa> crashanddie: at least you still have them - that's a start ! :D
Apr 15 09:44:11 <crashanddie> achipa: I call lardman a friend, infobot tells me that means my sparks aren't that sparky anymore.
Apr 15 09:44:24 <achipa> X-Fade: btw, how do you feel about the extras-experimental thing ? am about to write a mail but would like to hear some opinions beforehand
Apr 15 09:44:49 <X-Fade> What purpose would it serve?
Apr 15 09:45:06 <achipa> crashanddie: hey, brown dwarfs might not be flaming and sparky, but they are still stars :)
Apr 15 09:45:24 <crashanddie> achipa: hahaha, excellent quote
Apr 15 09:45:57 <achipa> X-Fade: errm, sever extras from new PR/SDK release date mismatch problems ?
Apr 15 09:46:25 <X-Fade> achipa: ?
Apr 15 09:47:48 <achipa> X-Fade: the notion that we should have an isolated extras-experimental with the newest SDK, whichever/whatever version it is, and that would become extras-devel when Nokia hits the 'bombs away' button
Apr 15 09:48:36 <achipa> so we can still play around with new stuff as it will be on release, but not endanger people working for current PRs
Apr 15 09:49:13 <crashanddie> achipa: I don't think the plan is ever to have a PR stuck in devel for so long
Apr 15 09:49:45 <X-Fade> achipa: Won't versioned extras-devel be easier then?
Apr 15 09:50:00 <crashanddie> achipa: to be honest, what needs to happen is exactly what happened now: new PR version is submitted to devel, and everyone works like mad to port/rebuild their app with the new PR
Apr 15 09:50:07 <jacekowski> well, it would be nice to have SDK avaliable some time before release for users
Apr 15 09:50:07 <achipa> crashanddie: I'm aware of that, but I don't see what insurance we have we won't run into the same thing with PR1.3+, harmattan, etc
Apr 15 09:50:33 <jacekowski> but without breaking anything
Apr 15 09:51:30 <X-Fade> Well our proposed plan fixes on thing in that: Not generating dependencies higher than is needed by the app.
Apr 15 09:51:31 <achipa> X-Fade: terminology, doesn't matter if we call it extras-devel1.2, extras-experimental or extras-head, the bottom line is to have both latest stable and devel available
Apr 15 09:52:12 <X-Fade> One idea is to move away from AM altoghether.
Apr 15 09:52:15 <crashanddie> achipa: can we call it extra-headache?
Apr 15 09:52:27 <X-Fade> have our own appdownloader application.
Apr 15 09:52:32 <achipa> crashanddie: that's an option, otoo :)
Apr 15 09:52:41 <X-Fade> Which is aware of what versions you are runnning and doesn't even notice the mess.
Apr 15 09:53:21 <achipa> the problem is that we have non backwards compatible stuff that *will* burn people...
Apr 15 09:54:02 <achipa> and we have this problem of people treating dependencies very liberally
Apr 15 09:54:17 <Jaffa> achipa: But with syumbol versioning it *will* be something they can't use, because their OS doesn't support it. Combined with a separate repo for Extras (proper), it's only people using extras-devel/-testing which could get burned.
Apr 15 09:54:24 <X-Fade> achipa: dependencies are now generated based on actual symbols used.
Apr 15 09:54:32 <korhojoa> hey guys. I have a problem
Apr 15 09:54:53 <achipa> and how will that work with pygtk, pyside and pyqt apps ?
Apr 15 09:54:53 <korhojoa> I can't seem to get the n900 to let me unmount the MyDocs partition
Apr 15 09:55:00 <X-Fade> And AM will tell you that you need to upgrade your OS from PR1.2 on, IIRC.
Apr 15 09:55:37 <achipa> I already see people just throwing in blanket 'python-qt4-gui' dependencies. That sort of works now, but certainly is not good on the long run
Apr 15 09:56:15 <X-Fade> achipa: I am really thinking of throwing qt4-maemo5 out.
Apr 15 09:56:22 <X-Fade> They reall created a mess there.
Apr 15 09:56:26 <Jaffa> achipa: So, you're worried that people using soft-coded libraries which don't enforce compile-time dependencies will be installable, but won't work.
Apr 15 09:57:02 <X-Fade> Having 2 parallel Qt version is just a pain.
Apr 15 09:57:08 <achipa> Jaffa: yes, or, will not upgrade properly (=break on upgrade)
Apr 15 09:57:10 <Jaffa> achipa: First pass there is to improve the documentation on what people *should* do (i.e. "if you want to deploy on PR1.1, use: Depends: .... (>= ...)" for the various Py* projects
Apr 15 09:57:40 <achipa> X-Fade: oh the # of times I told this on the qt-maemo list...
Apr 15 09:57:43 * achipa sighs
Apr 15 09:58:01 <X-Fade> achipa: We as a community need to take a stand then?
Apr 15 09:58:15 <Jaffa> achipa: And chiming in earlier on the "how to solve PR1.2" supporting the "multiple repos" idea probably would've been good :-)
Apr 15 09:58:22 <X-Fade> achipa: Propose it on -devel and get it going.
Apr 15 09:59:45 <achipa> X-Fade: the biggest problem is that the thing already has plenty inertia, will have to have a proposal with proper alternatives or it'll get ignored (with sad nodding and all)...
Apr 15 10:00:01 <X-Fade> We have quite some apps depending on qt4-maemo5, which are basically useless.
Apr 15 10:00:27 <TigerTael> ;/
Apr 15 10:00:27 <achipa> Jaffa: yes, well, it's a solution with drawbacks, too, it hasn't dawned on mee soon enough that there will be no really good/painless solution
Apr 15 10:01:10 <korhojoa> No-one knows why it won't allow dismount of the storage volume?
Apr 15 10:01:50 <X-Fade> I feel we need to see the Qt and PR1.2 issues separately.
Apr 15 10:02:24 <achipa> pr1.2 (with regard to qt) should have really been called maemo 5.1, 'cause that's what it is
Apr 15 10:02:26 <Khertan_Home> korhojoa, something using it ... tracker maybe
Apr 15 10:02:46 <korhojoa> what tracker?
Apr 15 10:02:49 <achipa> but I agree the qt problem is separate
Apr 15 10:03:02 <Khertan_Home> korhojoa, media tracker
Apr 15 10:03:10 <achipa> and we will see it again in the future (see the recycling of libqt4-maemo5 for Qt4.7)
Apr 15 10:03:13 <korhojoa> damn you, media tracker
Apr 15 10:03:17 <korhojoa> it can't be using it all the damn time
Apr 15 10:03:35 <Khertan_Home> don't know ... look at which file is open on the partition
Apr 15 10:03:43 <korhojoa> how? :D
Apr 15 10:03:50 <korhojoa> I've been trying to figure that out for a while
Apr 15 10:03:53 <SpeedEvil> fuser -m /home/user/MyDocs
Apr 15 10:04:07 <SpeedEvil> why do you want to unmount?
Apr 15 10:04:11 <korhojoa> nothing, apparently
Apr 15 10:04:17 <korhojoa> I'd like to use it in mass storage mode
Apr 15 10:04:25 <SpeedEvil> just plug it in
Apr 15 10:04:30 <SpeedEvil> and it automatically does it
Apr 15 10:04:33 <korhojoa> wow, thanks. never tried that.
Apr 15 10:04:40 <korhojoa> I've been trying for two hours
Apr 15 10:04:49 <korhojoa> it just keeps saying that the volume is busy
Apr 15 10:04:54 <SpeedEvil> hmm
Apr 15 10:04:57 <achipa> korhojoa: reboot ?
Apr 15 10:04:57 <korhojoa> sorry. "resource is in use"
Apr 15 10:05:05 <korhojoa> achipa: tried that too
Apr 15 10:05:14 <korhojoa> that's about the first thing i try when something doesn't work
Apr 15 10:05:23 <achipa> korhojoa: do you have fuser ?
Apr 15 10:05:46 <Khertan_Home> korhojoa, lsof /media/usbdisk/
Apr 15 10:05:58 <Khertan_Home> korhojoa, lsof /home/user/MyDocs/
Apr 15 10:06:01 <korhojoa> achipa: well, it's in the built-in busybox
Apr 15 10:06:12 <korhojoa> Khertan_Home: also nothing
Apr 15 10:06:26 <Khertan_Home> strange
Apr 15 10:06:30 <Khertan_Home> reboot :)
Apr 15 10:06:36 <Khertan_Home> easier solution i think
Apr 15 10:06:45 <korhojoa> like i said, i've tried it, multiple times
Apr 15 10:06:51 <korhojoa> i'll try it again though. shutting down now
Apr 15 10:06:59 <korhojoa> aaaand booting.
Apr 15 10:07:04 <Khertan_Home> with usb cable connected before start ?
Apr 15 10:07:18 <korhojoa> this time, yes
Apr 15 10:07:41 <crashanddie> Khertan_Home: t'as trouve un padawan?
Apr 15 10:07:51 <korhojoa> wow. now it's there. phone doesn't show anything though
Apr 15 10:08:01 <korhojoa> does this mean that it's in some kind of mass-storage only mode?
Apr 15 10:08:05 <Khertan_Home> crashanddie, gni� ?
Apr 15 10:09:22 <achipa> X-Fade, Jaffa: it would be good to have feedback if the ONLY reason for libqt4-maemo5 is to have it installed in parallel with the 'stable' one
Apr 15 10:11:27 <lardman> Khertan_Home: hmm, Google translate has issues, what is a pany...? Had to translate French->German
Apr 15 10:11:58 <Treibholz> 'pany' is a French word?
Apr 15 10:12:04 <crashanddie> nope
Apr 15 10:12:09 <lardman> nah gni�
Apr 15 10:12:24 <lardman> pany is apparently the English translation for that
Apr 15 10:12:39 <crashanddie> lardman: "gnié" is the same as the canadian "eh?"
Apr 15 10:12:42 <Treibholz> it's not a German word either...
Apr 15 10:13:08 <lardman> Google translated it into a German word I understood though
Apr 15 10:13:16 <DangerMaus> eh
Apr 15 10:13:57 <lardman> but it looks like it's wrong in all cases, unless the Germans say "Gesellschaft?" rather than "eh?"
Apr 15 10:14:16 <range> esundheit.
Apr 15 10:14:21 <range> *Gesundheit.
Apr 15 10:14:25 <range> .oO ( Damn )
Apr 15 10:14:31 <crashanddie> lardman: ja, aber ihr deutsh ist krumm :P
Apr 15 10:15:02 <X-Fade> achipa: Parallel install can be a good thing, but developers seem to believe that that is the one to use.
Apr 15 10:15:02 <lardman> gleichfalls!
Apr 15 10:15:19 <crashanddie> aber sie haen ein schonen akzent wenn sie deutsch sprecht
Apr 15 10:15:26 <achipa> heh, mein Deutsch ist Tarzan Deutsch (at best :P )
Apr 15 10:15:32 <crashanddie> s/haen/haben/
Apr 15 10:15:33 <infobot> crashanddie meant: aber sie haben ein schonen akzent wenn sie deutsch sprecht
Apr 15 10:16:18 <achipa> X-Fade: what I'm saying there might be less painful and disruptive ways to go about that :)
Apr 15 10:16:24 <lardman> crashanddie: you can say du to me
Apr 15 10:16:30 <crashanddie> I can?
Apr 15 10:16:38 <lardman> you have permission
Apr 15 10:16:40 <crashanddie> ah
Apr 15 10:16:52 <Khertan_Home> Ich verstehe nichts
Apr 15 10:16:52 <Khertan_Home> . Aber ich sprach Deutsch in der Vergangenheit
Apr 15 10:17:26 <lardman> Khertan_Home: not sure anyone really understands crashanddie ;)
Apr 15 10:18:04 <crashanddie> now nobody understands YOU!
Apr 15 10:18:06 <crashanddie> HAHAHAHAHA
Apr 15 10:18:17 <Stskeeps> why the fuck? :P
Apr 15 10:18:44 <Stskeeps> what's with all these op-ups? is there any threat to the channel?
Apr 15 10:18:45 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 15 10:19:03 <crashanddie> Stskeeps: waiting for mohammad to write the guidelines
Apr 15 10:19:08 <TigerTael> Yes, the threat of freedom of speech.
Apr 15 10:19:10 <lardman> anyway, crashanddie stop tarting around, apologies to everyone for the random language changes, and I'm going back to work
Apr 15 10:19:18 <crashanddie> have fun
Apr 15 10:19:27 <crashanddie> Khertan_Home: dis lui que toi tu me comprends quand je parle...
Apr 15 10:20:09 <crashanddie> TigerTael: don't talk about inside jokes you can't possibly have knowledge of :)
Apr 15 10:20:26 <achipa> X-Fade: and especially since the libqt4-maemo5 is a dev branch, it makes little sense, it constantly breaks everything downstream
Apr 15 10:20:33 <Khertan_Home> lardman: bah je le comprends moi :)
Apr 15 10:20:54 <crashanddie> haha
Apr 15 10:20:58 <crashanddie> very helpful, thanks
Apr 15 10:21:19 <achipa> X-Fade: I'm inclined to say even having the next qt statically linked would be a better solution :S that way at least you would not have scheduled breakage of stuff in extras, and would have a remote chance of entering extras
Apr 15 10:21:25 <Khertan_Home> lol
Apr 15 10:21:25 <frals> ~curse VirtualBox
Apr 15 10:21:27 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, VirtualBox !
Apr 15 10:21:37 <frals> love how my vboxnetdrv has randomly uninstalled itself
Apr 15 10:21:41 <achipa> breakage of stuff in extras-devel... duh
Apr 15 10:21:46 <crashanddie> Stskeeps: nice proposal
Apr 15 10:22:14 <X-Fade> achipa: I think we should just continue to block qt4-maemo5. It is just not for end-users.
Apr 15 10:22:29 <X-Fade> achipa: And now there is talk of putting 4.7 under qt4-maemo5.
Apr 15 10:22:34 <achipa> X-Fade: what I'm saying it's not even for developers :D
Apr 15 10:22:45 <X-Fade> achipa: yeah, indeed.
Apr 15 10:24:03 <achipa> X-Fade: qt4.7 is a moving target, like 4.6 was, probably even more in the beginning. I don't have any 4.6 apps as they were breaking it all to often. It was just frustrating.
Apr 15 10:24:36 <achipa> there is/was no chance of putting anything in extras-devel, have it working and hope it would work just the same a month later
Apr 15 10:24:55 <X-Fade> achipa: Well the libqt4 version in PR1.2 will at least be 'stable' for the PR1.2 lifetime ;)
Apr 15 10:25:16 <X-Fade> But really, I think pyside should only aim at libqt4.
Apr 15 10:25:17 <BCMM> can i turn the phone off with /sbin/halt? or will that confuse things?
Apr 15 10:26:00 <achipa> X-Fade: I came to a similar conclusion, and that's exactly what I'm doing with PyQt :)
Apr 15 10:26:40 <X-Fade> Pyside, pyqt all sounds the same for me, sorry ;)
Apr 15 10:27:24 <achipa> X-Fade: pyqt is a kind of pyside that works (/me runs from angry pyside folks :D ) )
Apr 15 10:28:27 <X-Fade> achipa: We actually experimented a bit with the indexed qt4 symbols. But for bindings that really doesn't help.
Apr 15 10:29:08 <achipa> there is a lot of aiming in front of targets and then missing them... which does not play out too well considering it's middleware and affects everything downstream-ish...
Apr 15 10:29:37 * X-Fade waits for a stable api
Apr 15 10:35:29 <adalal> quick question, would unclocking your device void warranty?
Apr 15 10:35:46 <adalal> or undervolting
Apr 15 10:36:57 <Khertan_Home> if you stay in cpu specification i didn't see why it would
Apr 15 10:37:10 <NuD1t7> well any non-stock kernel ( unless developer version from manufacturer ) is supposed to be "this craps on your warranty"
Apr 15 10:37:21 <Khertan_Home> really ?
Apr 15 10:37:27 <Stskeeps> NuD1t7: overclock kernel probably does
Apr 15 10:38:26 <NuD1t7> well the problem is that the warranty covers the device and softwrae as it is/was when delivered to client
Apr 15 10:38:59 <NuD1t7> but i am not 100% sure
Apr 15 10:39:07 <flux> nud1t7, so installing anything voids the warranty then?-)
Apr 15 10:39:12 <asj> if you reflash it it's not like they can find out
Apr 15 10:39:52 <larsivi> Using the FREMANTLE_ARMEL target, should I expect the maemo5 pri1.2 desktop to start on Xephyr?
Apr 15 10:40:14 <asj> not the last time I used it
Apr 15 10:40:46 <larsivi> it seems like qemu complains a lot, then segfaults
Apr 15 10:42:43 <achipa> X-Fade: will there ever BE a stable api on Fremantle ? :) :(
Apr 15 10:43:33 <asj> achipa: Qt maintain source compatiblity on major version, and bin on sub version
Apr 15 10:43:34 <asj> s
Apr 15 10:45:31 <X-Fade> achipa: I feel that things will be slowing down at least.
Apr 15 10:46:21 <achipa> asj: pink lines :) Is mostly true on desktops, not true at all on (new) platfoms...
Apr 15 10:47:27 <asj> achipa: Qt+maemo is not Qt, what the maemo guys do...heaven only knows :
Apr 15 10:47:31 <asj> :)
Apr 15 10:47:40 <achipa> X-Fade: the core maybe, but mobility and QML will give a spin to it somewhere down the line, I'm certain
Apr 15 10:48:24 <X-Fade> achipa: Yes, but that also has to get more stable at some point.
Apr 15 10:49:44 <achipa> asj: well, the official Qt pages/docs claim otherwise, which certainly doesn't help :)
Apr 15 10:50:34 <achipa> asj: or rather, it would be cool if that WAS the actual state and not the problem :)
Apr 15 10:50:40 <asj> which part? :)
Apr 15 10:51:56 <achipa> asj: well, Qt for Maemo sits right beside all other platforms... kind of gives the impression that its not some downstream experiment :)
Apr 15 10:52:08 <asj> achipa: ah :)
Apr 15 10:52:31 <achipa> asj: also, the docs claim QMaemo5 classes to be part of QtCore and QtGui, which is not quite the case :)
Apr 15 10:52:33 <asj> I think that maybe more true now than it used to be
Apr 15 10:54:22 <achipa> asj: certainly, 4.6 will be a big step forward, it's just that there is a fair number of platform caveats about things people take as granted based on desktop Qt experience (like the aforementioned source/binary compatibility)
Apr 15 10:55:20 <asj> achipa: mmm, but it kinda fits with the n900 which seems to be a bit of an experimental device anyways eh?
Apr 15 10:55:40 * lardman|busy looks at Icelandic eruption and wonders if he'll be able to fly to Glasgow next week
Apr 15 10:56:03 <X-Fade> lardman|busy: Start thinking about the train ;)
Apr 15 10:56:17 <lardman|busy> yeah, not a pleasant thought
Apr 15 10:56:19 * asj is thinking about  bed
Apr 15 10:56:43 <lardman|busy> I hope the meeting is cancelled in that case, but we'll see
Apr 15 10:57:07 <X-Fade> Lot of travel/trouble for just a meeting ;)
Apr 15 10:57:18 <lardman|busy> c'est la vie
Apr 15 10:57:37 <Khertan_Home> ah bah oui mon bon monsieur !
Apr 15 10:57:39 <Khertan_Home> :)
Apr 15 10:57:39 <lardman|busy> we're not into telemeetings in the engineering industry ;)
Apr 15 10:58:03 <Khertan_Home> in the telecom engineering industry ? :)
Apr 15 10:58:11 <lardman|busy> mechanical engineering
Apr 15 10:58:23 <X-Fade> lardman|busy: No excuse :)
Apr 15 10:58:59 <lardman|busy> I know, but still, face to face is the way it's done (and the few teleconferences I've done weren't overly productive)
Apr 15 10:59:07 <avee_> Teleconferencing the mechanical way, two cans and a really long string?
Apr 15 10:59:35 <lardman|busy> avee_: lol, yes
Apr 15 11:00:27 <avee_> But by next week stuff will probably fly again, unless the thing decides to cough again.
Apr 15 11:00:56 <avee_> The are expecting to resume flights somewhere this evening.
Apr 15 11:02:07 <lardman|busy> avee_: ah that's good news
Apr 15 11:02:20 <lardman|busy> anything to avoid a train, though really a train might be better than EasyJet
Apr 15 11:03:03 <avee_> Ah well, i generally don't mind trains, but haven't tried any in the UK yet ;)
Apr 15 11:03:41 <lardman|busy> avee_: ah, well that explains it
Apr 15 11:03:43 <lardman|busy> ;)
Apr 15 11:05:08 <avee_> Yeah, they do have a certain image. For long stretches you really need high speed trains to compete with planes.
Apr 15 11:05:37 <lardman|busy> so ~8h to Scotland isn't fast enough ;)
Apr 15 11:05:57 <lardman|busy> actually it's probably more than that as I'd need to change a few times
Apr 15 11:06:07 <avee_> Nope, that should get you to New York, not Schotland.
Apr 15 11:06:13 <lardman|busy> indeed
Apr 15 11:06:37 <lardman|busy> and the funny thing is it would probably be cheaper to fly to NY too
Apr 15 11:06:38 <avee_> But once a train is going at 300km/h it becomes a nice way of traveling.
Apr 15 11:06:53 <lardman|busy> avee_: yep, European trains are much nicer
Apr 15 11:07:16 <achipa> X-Fade: seriously, what's our policy on statically linked stuff ? if someone promoted something that includes a (properly optified) app with a statically linked Qt4.6 (or whatever is the dev version ATM) ... Can it reach extras or is that a no-no ?
Apr 15 11:07:47 <X-Fade> achipa: We have no policy on that.
Apr 15 11:07:58 <n00bmonk3y_Work> achipa: good question, never read anything about something being denied becuase of it, as the dependency would still work :P
Apr 15 11:08:10 <n00bmonk3y_Work> ahhhh but X-Fade be clever and know more than me ;)
Apr 15 11:08:16 <achipa> lardman|busy: Try out Serbian trains. It is confirmed we have a lower average travel speed than we had a 100 years a ago (fact)
Apr 15 11:08:20 <X-Fade> achipa: Technically there is nothing in the way of doing that.
Apr 15 11:08:29 <lardman|busy> achipa: lol, I'll bear it in mind
Apr 15 11:08:46 <n00bmonk3y_Work> X-Fade: dont the maemo hamsters get a bit miffed and nibble at your ankles until you stop doing it? or is that just a myth?
Apr 15 11:09:16 <X-Fade> n00bmonk3y_Work: try out and see :)
Apr 15 11:09:20 <n00bmonk3y_Work> lol :)
Apr 15 11:10:07 <achipa> :) I'm just contemplating bundling Qt statically with PyQt... so it never gets outdated and needs no rootfs space... temptation of the dark side...
Apr 15 11:10:26 * n00bmonk3y_Work doesnt completely understand that, sounds geeky ;)
Apr 15 11:10:49 <lardman|busy> fine for the short term, but if you did that I think it should be flagged as something to be improved when the time is right
Apr 15 11:11:01 <X-Fade> achipa: It is an option. Also good to discuss that first ;)
Apr 15 11:11:08 <lardman|busy> the difficulty is where to stop once you start saying that everything must be split into libs
Apr 15 11:11:18 <X-Fade> achipa: curiously, how big would a package be?
Apr 15 11:11:57 <achipa> X-Fade: good question, have not yet experimented with it
Apr 15 11:12:24 <lardman|busy> achipa: can you statically link? Doesn't Python do late binding, etc
Apr 15 11:12:36 <lardman|busy> would that work
Apr 15 11:12:51 <achipa> lardman|busy: pythod does, but PyQt is very much C++ on the inside :)
Apr 15 11:13:38 <lardman|busy> ok
Apr 15 11:13:41 <achipa> i.e. I can link the Qt stuff to the wrapper itself, not pretty, but should work
Apr 15 11:17:17 <achipa> lardman|busy: in fact, there is even a cleaner way, PyQt seems to be able to do this out of the box, see http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/static/Docs/PyQt4/pyqt4ref.html and search for consolidate
Apr 15 11:19:09 <achipa> well, certainly worth an experiment... though I probably wouldn't promote something like that all the way to extras. It sure is tempting for extras-devel, though
Apr 15 11:26:35 <achipa> hey, this is interesting: apt-get install fennec says: E: Handler silently failed
Apr 15 11:26:54 * achipa just loves non-descript error messages
Apr 15 11:29:04 <nid0> doesnt seem so silent
Apr 15 11:34:25 <crashanddie> achipa: error hunting 101: the last error is never the significant one.
Apr 15 11:36:09 <SpeedEvil> crashanddie: Unless it is.
Apr 15 11:38:56 <achipa> crashanddie: that's the fun part, that's not the last error. It's the ONLY error (supposedly, but I know better :) )
Apr 15 11:40:49 <nid0> bloody hell, all uk flights in and out grounded now
Apr 15 11:41:03 <achipa> http://imagebin.ca/view/ChcWJS.html
Apr 15 11:41:07 <achipa> bazinga
Apr 15 11:41:09 <crashanddie> nid0: tell me about it
Apr 15 11:45:21 <BCMM> can somebody help me with irreco? i won't connect to lirc
Apr 15 11:45:27 <BCMM> and it appears that lircd isn't running
Apr 15 11:45:34 <BCMM> not sure how to make it run
Apr 15 11:49:13 <BCMM> starting the init script warns me that there are no valid remotes
Apr 15 12:08:24 <Kurppa_> achipa: I think that might be because you have some old xulrunner installed, or might not have installed that at all.
Apr 15 12:09:04 <Kurppa_> I have no clue if this is the problem, but try purging and reinstalling xulrunner first, then install fennec.
Apr 15 12:09:17 <achipa> Kurppa_: will do, thx
Apr 15 12:09:52 <X-Fade> Comes from Ovi, right?
Apr 15 12:10:32 <TomaszD> how do you make newly installed desktop icons appear without rebooting the device these days?
Apr 15 12:11:24 <TomaszD> refreshing icon chace doesn't seem to work
Apr 15 12:11:28 <TomaszD> *cache
Apr 15 12:12:45 <SpeedEvil> I can control what tracker oes with the config file in ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg
Apr 15 12:12:52 <SpeedEvil> How do I control thumbnailer?
Apr 15 12:13:11 <TomaszD> hmm, there is a tracker-cfg package
Apr 15 12:13:19 <TomaszD> you could try that
Apr 15 12:31:07 <mece> Speedevil, you don't control the thumbnailer, the thumbnailer controls you!
Apr 15 12:35:07 <joker_89> hi
Apr 15 12:35:41 <BenjaminWilk> hello
Apr 15 12:35:45 <BenjaminWilk> :-)
Apr 15 12:36:07 <joker_89> anyone knows python?
Apr 15 12:36:16 <achipa> joker_89: shoot
Apr 15 12:36:22 <Lumpio-> Wait
Apr 15 12:36:26 <Lumpio-> You... were not born with the Python?
Apr 15 12:36:43 <Khertan_Home> joker_89, hi
Apr 15 12:36:48 <joker_89> i am doing a sync using python, but i dont know how to show a text process like SENDING 1/100, SENDING 2/1000..
Apr 15 12:36:56 <Treibholz> joker_89: guido does
Apr 15 12:37:03 <joker_89> because i send all at the same time in JSON (like xml)
Apr 15 12:37:03 <Khertan_Home> you need a gui framework :)
Apr 15 12:37:11 <Lumpio-> pfft
Apr 15 12:37:36 <Khertan_Home> threading is your friend :)
Apr 15 12:37:39 <joker_89> i have the progress bar working, but i dont know how mobiles detect item per item.
Apr 15 12:39:19 <talmai> joker_89: you send all items in one request? which library do you use for requests (pycurl, urllib)?
Apr 15 12:39:32 <joker_89> urllib
Apr 15 12:39:42 <joker_89> i send all items serialized in json
Apr 15 12:39:49 <joker_89> syncml do the same but in xml.
Apr 15 12:40:07 <sejo> is there a good tutorial on how te package for the n900 (python app) got this link but isn't all that clear: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/How_to_build
Apr 15 12:40:44 <achipa_> "I would feel embarrassed if my mobile phone looked outdated"... WTF ?
Apr 15 12:41:00 <sejo> achipa: eh?
Apr 15 12:41:33 <Surfa> imagotuote
Apr 15 12:42:38 <achipa> sejo: looking at the maemo questionnaire. Gets weirder by the page
Apr 15 12:42:47 <sejo> ach
Apr 15 12:45:03 <timeless_mbp> hey!
Apr 15 12:45:13 <timeless_mbp> can someone please write a two way morse code application for us?
Apr 15 12:45:19 <timeless_mbp> the sender should be the camera LED
Apr 15 12:45:28 <timeless_mbp> and the receiver should be the primary camera
Apr 15 12:45:34 <Khertan_Home> lol
Apr 15 12:45:43 <SpeedEvil> mece: that depends on localisation.
Apr 15 12:45:51 <sejo> timeless_mbp: that would be cool
Apr 15 12:45:52 <timeless_mbp> bonus points for integrating with the share dialog
Apr 15 12:46:00 <timeless_mbp> (ftp over morse code over LED)
Apr 15 12:46:04 <sejo> hahaha
Apr 15 12:46:16 <Khertan_Home> timeless_mbp, where did you get that idea ?
Apr 15 12:46:16 <achipa> now getting really weird... "Holding this device and looking at it feels enjoyable. "
Apr 15 12:46:30 <timeless_mbp> there's a guy standing by the window in the next wing
Apr 15 12:46:31 <Khertan_Home> is it the cache method sync of nokia servers ?
Apr 15 12:46:36 <achipa> am I just having the wrong mental image of things being enjoyable ?
Apr 15 12:46:39 <timeless_mbp> he was moving around, i tried to wave my hand to say hello
Apr 15 12:46:39 <Mek> in the canon firmware hacking community they have lots of experience with such things... blinking the leds is how they get dumps of the firmware of many cameras :)
Apr 15 12:46:41 <timeless_mbp> he didn't respond
Apr 15 12:46:49 <timeless_mbp> i asked sp3000 if i should send him an sms
Apr 15 12:46:56 <timeless_mbp> he suggested using morse code
Apr 15 12:47:04 <timeless_mbp> i realized we could do two way morse code...
Apr 15 12:47:07 <timeless_mbp> the rest you know
Apr 15 12:47:19 <Khertan_Home> quite funny idea
Apr 15 12:47:22 <lcuk> ok timeless_mbp now it gets practical, how do oyu filter the other noise from camera nad know which is which
Apr 15 12:47:35 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: the camera should be able to focus on the bright led
Apr 15 12:47:37 <lcuk> does device send flashing sync signal
Apr 15 12:47:44 <timeless_mbp> the led color will be fairly easy to spot
Apr 15 12:47:46 <lcuk> until it gets an ack :D
Apr 15 12:47:50 <timeless_mbp> and i'd hope it can focus on it
Apr 15 12:47:52 <Khertan_Home> the difficult part will be read a led flash and differeciate it from the sun
Apr 15 12:47:57 <lcuk> red recording led
Apr 15 12:48:00 <lcuk> or white torch
Apr 15 12:48:13 <lcuk> "filter other noise"
Apr 15 12:48:29 <lcuk> you find the 10hz flash from video stream or something
Apr 15 12:48:34 <lcuk> send an ack flash back
Apr 15 12:48:36 <lcuk> then continue
Apr 15 12:49:02 <timeless_mbp> well, i think the messages will have to be half-duplex
Apr 15 12:49:27 <timeless_mbp> i think morse includes a GA (go ahead) message
Apr 15 12:49:28 <achipa> "I spend more and more time taking care of myself, in order to feel good". What *exactly* is this getting at ? :S
Apr 15 12:49:31 <timeless_mbp> so that shouldn't be too bad
Apr 15 12:49:48 <timeless_mbp> achipa: "you're a girl"
Apr 15 12:50:06 <timeless_mbp> (probably a teenager!)
Apr 15 12:50:22 <mece> hahahaha
Apr 15 12:50:29 <mece> I had some good times with that survey.
Apr 15 12:50:50 <achipa> timeless_mbp: seriously, the questionnaire is starting to worry me...
Apr 15 12:50:51 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: I wrote a python lib to decode morse code
Apr 15 12:51:09 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: to "read" morse code when you tap the screen
Apr 15 12:51:10 <achipa> timeless_mbp: but then I figured it out. These are the *control* questions !
Apr 15 12:51:12 <sejo> crashanddie: can you encode with it also?
Apr 15 12:51:32 <crashanddie> sejo: well, it's easily reversible I guess, I never had to, so never implemented it
Apr 15 12:51:45 <crashanddie> sejo: there's plenty of encoding libs out there
Apr 15 12:51:53 <crashanddie> I won't have access to the lib until next month though, sorry
Apr 15 12:51:54 <sejo> crashanddie: challenge of the day: encode and use the led :p
Apr 15 12:54:37 * mece sings 'black black black black number one!"
Apr 15 12:54:38 <achipa> sejo: I've got a better idea, use the vibrate function for it ! And make a client that detects is via the accelerometer !
Apr 15 12:55:16 <achipa> and then upgrade to intercontinental comms via longitudinal mechanical waves :)
Apr 15 12:56:01 <sejo> achipa: that's so 90's
Apr 15 12:56:06 <sejo> leds are in now
Apr 15 12:56:16 <sejo> 14:40:44 < achipa_> "I would feel embarrassed if my mobile phone looked outdated"... WTF ?
Apr 15 12:56:20 <sejo> remember?
Apr 15 12:57:09 <kirma> if it wouldn't look like iphone?
Apr 15 12:57:21 <achipa> sejo: I was missing the most obvious question "I would feel embarrasssed if it looked liked an iPhone"
Apr 15 12:57:23 <achipa> exactly
Apr 15 12:58:04 <sejo> hehe
Apr 15 13:00:03 <achipa> on the plus side, the survey DID have penguins shooting *LASERS* from their eyes
Apr 15 13:00:10 <achipa> and everything is better with lasers...
Apr 15 13:00:29 <visz> http://www.lazertits.com/
Apr 15 13:00:31 <pupnik> lol
Apr 15 13:01:14 <talmai> Is getsatisfaction.com considered as a valid bugtracker for extras QA?
Apr 15 13:03:11 <achipa> I'm lobbying to have http://www.zombo.com accepted as a valid link for handling end-user support
Apr 15 13:03:20 <MohammadAG> devel down?
Apr 15 13:06:17 <talmai> I'm 100% serious, getsatisfaction is not some porn site, we use it as a issue report / funcionality request platform for our android/maemo apps
Apr 15 13:06:21 <moo---> has anyone tried chrome on n900?
Apr 15 13:06:29 <squidd> slow
Apr 15 13:06:30 <Scelt> moo---: many
Apr 15 13:06:44 <moo---> squidd: know that it is slow is enough in this poit
Apr 15 13:06:45 <moo---> point
Apr 15 13:06:47 <timeless_mbp> moo---: it's great, it shows people how much better microb is :)
Apr 15 13:06:48 <Appiah> moo---: check the thread(s) on talk.maemo.org
Apr 15 13:07:06 <timeless_mbp> people don't really appreciate microb until they have something against which to compare it :)
Apr 15 13:07:07 <achipa> talmai: sure, if it gives an option to handle user issues, it's OK
Apr 15 13:07:31 <frosty`> timeless_mbp: hooray grammar
Apr 15 13:07:40 <achipa> talmai: whether it's commercial or not matters little (well, unless you bombard users with ads or require payment/subscription to access it)
Apr 15 13:08:29 <timeless_mbp> frosty`: yeah,… grammar is hard
Apr 15 13:08:44 <talmai> achipa, tnx for the info :)
Apr 15 13:09:02 <achipa> np
Apr 15 13:23:39 <frals> lol thought this chick was eyeing me on the bus but no worries, she was staring at my n900
Apr 15 13:24:30 <DangerMaus> hehe good taste
Apr 15 13:26:52 <Veggen> frals: My girlfriend (who has an iPhone) already envies my N900.. :)
Apr 15 13:27:20 <Treibholz> "What? It works without iTunes?"
Apr 15 13:28:31 <dubzii> Choosing a phone that doesn't work with iTunes is easy
Apr 15 13:28:38 <frals> Veggen: hehe, my gf got a 5800 and shes so jealous of my hw keyboard :)
Apr 15 13:30:15 <nid0> my girlfriend has an hd2 and she really likes blubbels
Apr 15 13:30:36 <nid0> other than that she prefers the sense ui on hers :p
Apr 15 13:32:38 <n00bmonk3y_Work> frals......
Apr 15 13:33:13 <n00bmonk3y_Work> You know there is always the odd winge from randoms in tmo about fmms not being integrated into the system so to speak... is it worth a mini statement on your plans in a separate thread?
Apr 15 13:33:22 <timeless_mbp> "blubbels"?
Apr 15 13:33:55 <n00bmonk3y_Work> i'm thinking to keep the plans separate to the development thread so to speak
Apr 15 13:34:29 <frals> n00bmonk3y_Work: bah, ill update first post in fmms thread... plan to do a new topic when i promote to testing anyway
Apr 15 13:34:56 <n00bmonk3y_Work> ahhh good point ;) sorry didnt mean to add more work for ya!
Apr 15 13:35:11 <frals> dunno what good posting a new topic would do as ppl dont search before posting anyway :p
Apr 15 13:35:25 <frals> hehe np, didnt mean it like that
Apr 15 13:36:07 <frals> just getting tired by users who dont read before posting as there seems to be a constant flow of them :P
Apr 15 13:36:54 <n00bmonk3y_Work> :D - lol was just a thought a sthe current mega thread is useful - but is more dictated around the development, was thinking of explaining the mms v integration aspect to the masses.... - second thoughts, might not make sense separatley - but in the first post would be good :D
Apr 15 13:37:10 <n00bmonk3y_Work> frals:  know exactly what you mean ;)
Apr 15 13:37:45 <frals> :)
Apr 15 13:42:45 <pupnik> quiet...
Apr 15 13:43:19 <rmrfchik> pew
Apr 15 13:43:48 * DocScrutinizer hears you can't get laid with showing off a N900 o.O
Apr 15 13:44:05 <Stskeeps> someone in here claimed it was possible
Apr 15 13:44:20 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: vagalume was great for that on n8x0 though
Apr 15 13:45:22 <kamui> who posted the lazertits.com
Apr 15 13:45:25 <kamui> funky monkey
Apr 15 13:45:37 <Scelt> visz
Apr 15 13:45:42 <Nils^> hey people. First: Yesterday or the day before I asked about custom shortcuts, for example terminal with ssh connection. There was no answer but it was indeed very easy and I have the solution
Apr 15 13:45:50 <visz> =o
Apr 15 13:46:12 <Nils^> you have to create a .desktop in /usr/local/something (just find . | grep .desktop). For example copy the one from midnight commander.
Apr 15 13:46:18 <visz> everything is better with lasers
Apr 15 13:47:54 <Nils^> Now a new question: I have a fake PS3 controller. The manual says it uses "2.4GHz radio frequency (RF) technology". Do you think I might be able to connect this to my n900 ?
Apr 15 13:48:08 <visz> =D
Apr 15 13:48:12 <Treibholz> Nils^: no.
Apr 15 13:48:18 <DocScrutinizer> Nils^: http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html plus d-bus scrpting schould do
Apr 15 13:48:38 <Nils^> for PS3 I have to use a special USB Dongle (or for PC)
Apr 15 13:48:44 <Treibholz> Nils^: is it Bluetooth? or does it have its own connector?
Apr 15 13:49:06 <Nils^> Treibholz: like I said, own connector. No sign of bluetooth anyware
Apr 15 13:49:55 <DocScrutinizer> Nils^: aah sorry. thought you talk bout kbd-shortcuts
Apr 15 13:50:14 <Nils^> DocScrutinizer: I meant the basic connection first :)
Apr 15 13:50:25 <Treibholz> Nils^: no, won't work.
Apr 15 13:50:59 <Treibholz> Nils^: unless you tinker a usb-adapter to the usb-host... but... no, you don't want that.
Apr 15 13:51:03 <Nils^> ok, So I have to buy a 60€ controller to connect to my n900, which I won't do.
Apr 15 13:52:38 <visz> Nils^, what would you use the controller for?
Apr 15 13:52:47 <Nils^> visz: Emulator games
Apr 15 13:53:42 <visz> with tv-out?
Apr 15 13:53:55 <Nils^> its not exactly easy with the n900 keyboard :) . Yes, sometimes with TV-Out.
Apr 15 13:54:03 <crashanddie> lmao
Apr 15 13:54:16 <crashanddie> I just love people who think of a mobile device and go "ooooh, games"
Apr 15 13:54:17 <DocScrutinizer> actually it's a bit of a pitty we got no SDR for 433/866/2400MHz
Apr 15 13:54:20 <crashanddie> just get a wii, seriously
Apr 15 13:54:45 <lardman|busy> crashanddie: wii + portable LCD tv you mean? ;)
Apr 15 13:54:54 <Nils^> lardman|busy: don't feed the trolls.
Apr 15 13:54:55 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: FPGA! (+ V12)
Apr 15 13:55:03 <crashanddie> lardman|busy: they're talking about a ps3 remote control, and tv out
Apr 15 13:55:07 <crashanddie> lardman|busy: what's portable about that?
Apr 15 13:55:21 <lardman|busy> true, /me moves on
Apr 15 13:55:50 <lardman|busy> crashanddie: was just your comment about seeing portable device & thinking of games
Apr 15 13:56:02 <crashanddie> fairy nuff
Apr 15 13:56:34 <visz> Nils^, don't know it it's possible, but how about: ps3-controller:usb -> usb:laptop:wlan -> wlan:n900
Apr 15 13:56:59 <Nils^> :) this might be a step too much.
Apr 15 13:57:20 <DocScrutinizer> NOW I need a coffee
Apr 15 13:57:24 <visz> =D
Apr 15 13:58:00 <Nils^> I have a PS1/2->Adapter, wired, too. But this has a normal sized USB connector. I don't know about the differences USB/mini-usb
Apr 15 13:58:18 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: fpga=powerhog, that's the street talk
Apr 15 13:58:31 <Nils^> micro-usb I mean
Apr 15 14:03:18 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: hence the v12
Apr 15 14:04:58 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: what's V12?
Apr 15 14:06:47 <DocScrutinizer> a otto-motor?
Apr 15 14:07:48 <lardman|busy> v12?
Apr 15 14:07:53 <Anss|> 12 voltages?
Apr 15 14:08:16 <lardman|busy> I thought most otto cycle engines were 4 cylinder
Apr 15 14:08:42 <DocScrutinizer> lardman|busy: where you're living?
Apr 15 14:08:47 <DocScrutinizer> GDR?
Apr 15 14:08:49 <lardman|busy> in fact the original was single cyclinder apparently
Apr 15 14:08:53 <lardman|busy> DocScrutinizer: Bath
Apr 15 14:09:01 <DocScrutinizer> aah no there those were 2 cyl
Apr 15 14:09:51 <lardman|busy> I was just thinking of the Prius ICE which is supposed to operate close to a true Otto cycle iirc, though I may be wrong
Apr 15 14:09:55 <DocScrutinizer> I was moe thinking like in USA all engines are at least 8 cyl
Apr 15 14:10:02 <lardman|busy> ah yes
Apr 15 14:10:19 <lardman|busy> and if you're a learner you have a V6
Apr 15 14:10:36 <spliffy> is it possible to deactivate the gsm modem with an unchanged n900? i'm filling out the survey and can't remember
Apr 15 14:10:48 <nid0> offline mode
Apr 15 14:10:50 <lardman|busy> spliffy: yes, airplane mode
Apr 15 14:10:53 <lardman|busy> or that one
Apr 15 14:11:10 <spliffy> kk
Apr 15 14:11:10 <DocScrutinizer> spliffy: there's 'an app fot that'
Apr 15 14:11:22 <spliffy> DocScrutinizer: i guess i have it installed
Apr 15 14:12:08 <DocScrutinizer> it's called tablet mode if you want to keep the WLAN
Apr 15 14:12:13 <spliffy> but it only makes the switch more comfortable
Apr 15 14:12:15 <spliffy> ?
Apr 15 14:12:34 <spliffy> yeah. i want that out of the box
Apr 15 14:12:36 <lardman|busy> I'm off, cu all tomorrow
Apr 15 14:15:21 <BenjaminWilk> i need a function to add up values in a column and give it back / out in normal text
Apr 15 14:15:32 <BenjaminWilk> in the same topic of course
Apr 15 14:26:43 * GAN900 groans
Apr 15 14:35:26 * GAN900 is a bit worried the Nexus One is offering system updates with no internet access.
Apr 15 14:36:12 <Khertan_Home> GAN900,  ?
Apr 15 14:36:17 <nid0> its *that* clever
Apr 15 14:36:17 <Khertan_Home> how is it possible
Apr 15 14:36:27 <GAN900> Khertan_Home, no idea
Apr 15 14:36:33 <GAN900> Secret Google darknet?
Apr 15 14:36:35 <Khertan_Home> hum ... slow download
Apr 15 14:36:37 <microlith> subspace radio!
Apr 15 14:36:50 <Treibholz> via RDS
Apr 15 14:36:55 <GAN900> No SIM in the phone, not associated with any WiFi network.
Apr 15 14:36:57 <Khertan_Home> slow index ... and purpose it only after a certain delay
Apr 15 14:37:29 <stefan_e> quote:
Apr 15 14:37:34 <stefan_e> Help us to make N900 and our future MeeGo products better by taking the survey on http://maemo.nokia.com/survey/ thanks!
Apr 15 14:38:54 <smaug> uh, my N900 seems to have annoying bug nowadays
Apr 15 14:39:23 <smaug> if I don't reboot every now and then, after unlocking the screen I need to wait few seconds before it start to work properly
Apr 15 14:39:35 <smaug> timeless: have you heard of something like that?
Apr 15 14:40:22 * smaug goes
Apr 15 14:40:42 <GAN900> By the way, the only notable content in Ari's talk yesterday was that the N900 has been an "overwhelming" success.
Apr 15 14:41:23 <nid0> in fairness though, theyd say that regardless unless it'd been a total complete unmitigated disaster
Apr 15 14:42:04 <mva> hi there!
Apr 15 14:42:16 <thresh> анти-хруст.
Apr 15 14:42:27 <GAN900> nid0, the sense that I got was that it was, in fact, a complete fucking insane runaway success
Apr 15 14:42:50 <GAN900> Which is a function of Nokia being completely incapable of backing the platform, but still.
Apr 15 14:43:12 <GAN900> I saw more N900s there yesterday than Android devices
Apr 15 14:43:14 <nid0> they didnt give any sales figures that I saw right, iv always been interested to know how accurate the "30k a month wasnt enough, we upped production to 100k" rumours are
Apr 15 14:43:15 <mva> kernel-flasher-maemo don't updating (new version conflicts with defaul kernel and modules)
Apr 15 14:43:26 <Stskeeps> GAN900: saw my post on best practices?
Apr 15 14:43:29 <GAN900> nid0, yeah, no idea
Apr 15 14:43:32 <GAN900> Stskeeps, nope
Apr 15 14:43:57 <Stskeeps> GAN900: Proposal for Best Practices for working in a MeeGo team on meego-dev/meego-community
Apr 15 14:44:12 <mva> thresh, 1) no russian here, 2) learn russian transliteration, you're wrong
Apr 15 14:45:02 <thresh> no i'm not.
Apr 15 14:45:12 <mva> yes, you are
Apr 15 14:45:15 <mva> :)
Apr 15 14:45:27 <GAN900> The MeeGo shirts they gave out are so lightweight I swear they're women's. . . .
Apr 15 14:45:57 <lcuk> GAN900, hows your nexus
Apr 15 14:46:03 <Anss|> that's understandable :)
Apr 15 14:46:23 <GAN900> lcuk, there's no SIM in it, so, meh.
Apr 15 14:46:33 <mva> если читать так, чтобы в том моем нике была бы "у", то тогда там "кс" вместо "х" и "п" вместо "р"
Apr 15 14:47:36 <mva> а в оригинале - "анти" на английском, а дальше по-русски "христ", но т.к. тут нельзя юникодные ники - подбирались похожие буквы
Apr 15 14:47:56 <mva> that is right way :)
Apr 15 14:48:14 * RST38h_ sighs
Apr 15 14:49:22 <GAN900> lcuk, bergie's Nexus One booting to the bootloader because of a low battery was a pretty impressive failure mode.
Apr 15 14:50:02 <pupnik> GAN900: next camera should be on top edge of device and rotatable so i can snapshot forward whild looking down at drvice
Apr 15 14:50:22 <thresh> there's no y in your nick anyway
Apr 15 14:50:38 <Khertan_Home> ouch ... maybe someone can help me ... how to change my password settings on the maemo website ?
Apr 15 14:50:40 <mva> yep
Apr 15 14:50:43 <mva> :)
Apr 15 14:50:49 <Khertan_Home> didn't found it in profile page
Apr 15 14:50:50 <RST38h_> pupnik: Should be made wireless and removable from the device
Apr 15 14:50:50 <Khertan_Home> :)
Apr 15 14:51:06 <RST38h_> pupnik: For those tight places that you sometimes want to snap pictures of...
Apr 15 14:51:19 <pupnik> i thought my idea was realistic
Apr 15 14:51:39 <RST38h_> pupnk: Prolly no: rotatable = mechanics = failure prone
Apr 15 14:51:58 <Khertan_Home> hum ... the n800 one was well working )
Apr 15 14:51:59 <lcuk> RST38h_, bablyon 5, g'kar had a removable eyeball that did that
Apr 15 14:52:04 <Khertan_Home> :)
Apr 15 14:52:10 <Khertan_Home> lol lcuk
Apr 15 14:52:28 <Khertan_Home> look also for a kino in stargate universe ... works well :)
Apr 15 14:56:21 <GAN900> Stskeeps, I'm not seeing it.
Apr 15 14:56:26 <Stskeeps> GAN900: hmm
Apr 15 14:57:10 <Stskeeps> GAN900: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001612.html
Apr 15 14:57:16 * ShadowJK wonders if you're allowed to use the report button on tmo to suggest thread merges
Apr 15 14:59:46 <frals> love how i got a shellscript working which when im going through it now shouldnt work at all
Apr 15 15:11:55 * ShadowJK wonders how bme is driving bq24150
Apr 15 15:12:36 <ShadowJK> battery is declining whilst on charger and "battery full" state, but not declining as fast as when not on charger :)
Apr 15 15:15:07 <nid0> according to battery-eye graphing, my battery discharge rate is the same when on the charger as when not
Apr 15 15:15:38 <nid0> in fact if anything on the battery it's slightly faster decline
Apr 15 15:15:46 <nid0> which would be explained by the green led being lit
Apr 15 15:20:03 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, well at least yours doesn't go from 60 to 0 % in one minute (not a redraw thing)
Apr 15 15:20:32 <ShadowJK> mine goes from 100 to 0 ;)
Apr 15 15:21:31 <MohammadAG> in 1 minute? don't think so :)
Apr 15 15:21:37 <ShadowJK> the meter shows full bars and lshal|grep percent shows 100 until about 25-30% remaining, where it jumps to 0 and battery low :)
Apr 15 15:22:38 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, http://i40.tinypic.com/2l42dg.jpg definition of 60 to 0 in the last section
Apr 15 15:22:53 <MohammadAG> I also think it's Nokia's profits after releasing the N97
Apr 15 15:23:22 <ShadowJK> that looks a bit like a reboot
Apr 15 15:23:42 <MohammadAG> but it wasn't one :)
Apr 15 15:23:45 <ShadowJK> the jump up, I mean
Apr 15 15:24:44 <MohammadAG> hmm, maybe it got wrong values and it didn't actually charge?
Apr 15 15:25:23 <ShadowJK> add voltage to the graph
Apr 15 15:25:52 <MohammadAG> hmm, that was less than a week ago, does it keep history?
Apr 15 15:26:47 <n00bmonk3y_Work> Stskeeps: Oh clever one........ Am i right in thinking ... harmatten is not meego (obvious i know) ....... but the 2 developments are not directly related?
Apr 15 15:26:55 <MohammadAG> nvm, it does!
Apr 15 15:27:04 <Stskeeps> n00bmonk3y_Work: what?
Apr 15 15:27:26 <n00bmonk3y_Work> ie next maemo development versus meego - and its relation to nokia's infamous step 4/5
Apr 15 15:28:06 <MohammadAG> Stskeeps, basically he's saying, are the Maemo 6 and MeeGo teams related?
Apr 15 15:28:11 <n00bmonk3y_Work> yeah kinda
Apr 15 15:28:24 <MohammadAG> (and he's thinking they're not)
Apr 15 15:28:24 <n00bmonk3y_Work> preferably not inbred too ;)
Apr 15 15:28:56 <Chewtoy> Anybody knows where one can get a hold of a foldable bluetooth keyboard?
Apr 15 15:29:07 <n00bmonk3y_Work> well i'm trying to understand the relation to the step 4 (ie n900) - step 5 - i assumed harmatten - and did meego just kinda join in the party?
Apr 15 15:29:18 <Chewtoy> Been searching for quite some time now.
Apr 15 15:29:23 <n00bmonk3y_Work> Chewtoy: from a foldable bluetooth keyboard manufacturer ;)
Apr 15 15:29:30 <n00bmonk3y_Work> lol sorry not much help i know
Apr 15 15:29:31 <Chewtoy> They seem very hard to track down...
Apr 15 15:29:48 * n00bmonk3y_Work thinks i've confuzzled Stskeeps 
Apr 15 15:29:57 <nid0> n00bmonk3y_Work
Apr 15 15:30:01 <Stskeeps> n00bmonk3y_Work: you're assuming i know anything about anything
Apr 15 15:30:05 <nid0> healthcheck needs a promote, no? :p
Apr 15 15:30:15 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, upload screenshot of voltage and capacity? :)
Apr 15 15:30:15 <n00bmonk3y_Work> nid0:  yeah, assumption is the mother of all fcuk ups, but you are clever ;)
Apr 15 15:30:21 <n00bmonk3y_Work> nid0: 3 days
Apr 15 15:30:29 <n00bmonk3y_Work> or 2 days now lol
Apr 15 15:30:30 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, capacity? (voltage coming up)
Apr 15 15:30:51 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, http://i41.tinypic.com/9sbiwj.jpg
Apr 15 15:30:55 <nid0> o yeah, i counted days wrong :( 2 days to go
Apr 15 15:30:59 <ShadowJK> If batterygraph can do it, displaying both the percentage and voltage at same time
Apr 15 15:31:35 <n00bmonk3y_Work> :D
Apr 15 15:31:39 <ShadowJK> hm, no scale
Apr 15 15:32:23 <n00bmonk3y_Work> 16/10 votes and i think 3 seniors , so should be ok in 2 days :)
Apr 15 15:32:25 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, there is one, but it's only visible at the end of the graph (screenie coming up)
Apr 15 15:33:22 <nid0> yeah you're covered for the 3 testing squad votes
Apr 15 15:33:34 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, http://i40.tinypic.com/5ludcl.jpg (not the best scale I've seen)
Apr 15 15:33:59 <wazd> hello people :)
Apr 15 15:34:14 <MohammadAG> hey wazd
Apr 15 15:34:14 <n00bmonk3y_Work> hey wazd
Apr 15 15:34:38 <n00bmonk3y_Work> nid0: - new version will go into devel tomorrow - and be pumped into testing soon after the promotion
Apr 15 15:34:49 <nid0> nice, whats new?
Apr 15 15:35:11 <n00bmonk3y_Work> going to change the navigation and tidy up the styles a bit
Apr 15 15:35:21 <n00bmonk3y_Work> also - adding some better led and pattern tests
Apr 15 15:35:28 <n00bmonk3y_Work> + trying to figure out an ear speaker test
Apr 15 15:35:36 <nid0> is one of the led tests gonna be cycling through every colour? :P
Apr 15 15:35:39 <n00bmonk3y_Work> yup
Apr 15 15:35:42 <nid0> nice
Apr 15 15:35:44 <n00bmonk3y_Work> + combination of colours
Apr 15 15:35:57 <n00bmonk3y_Work> so far  it's about 9 seconds to get the full rainbow effect
Apr 15 15:35:57 <nid0> did you make a decision on how to stresstest/benchmark btw?
Apr 15 15:36:17 <n00bmonk3y_Work> nid0: yes... but will not be implemented for a little while, many many tests for me to evaluate and consider
Apr 15 15:36:38 <MohammadAG> <n00bmonk3y_Work> + trying to figure out an ear speaker
Apr 15 15:36:41 * MohammadAG has ideas...
Apr 15 15:36:47 * n00bmonk3y_Work prods MohammadAG 
Apr 15 15:36:55 <MohammadAG> call echo123 using skype :P
Apr 15 15:36:59 * n00bmonk3y_Work is going for a ciggy... will come back to your lovely ideas shortly
Apr 15 15:37:05 <n00bmonk3y_Work> MohammadAG: meh
Apr 15 15:37:11 <n00bmonk3y_Work> should be easier then that
Apr 15 15:37:15 <nid0> to stresstest rather than a pure benchmark, anything that attempts to calculate pi or prime number iterations will undoubtedly be the best bets
Apr 15 15:37:18 <MohammadAG> I was jk anyways :P
Apr 15 15:37:19 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, the voltage was in the higher end of low-batteru-warning threshold... In my measurements with the mugen battery, there'd be about 30% remaining (full - shutdown) at that point.
Apr 15 15:38:06 * andrewfblack 's website hit a new high for view in 1 day yesterday
Apr 15 15:38:22 <slonopotamus> hehe
Apr 15 15:38:28 <slonopotamus> "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge
Apr 15 15:38:53 <dubzii> Lol
Apr 15 15:38:59 <ShadowJK> I encountered a General Electric vaccuum pump this week. It didn't suck. :(
Apr 15 15:39:29 <ShadowJK> on the other hand it was hot enough that I could have made toast
Apr 15 15:40:27 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, the battery low before that came at about 3500mV which is far closer to shutdown
Apr 15 15:40:46 <ShadowJK> it starts dropping fast after that though :D
Apr 15 15:40:57 <ShadowJK> (shutdown happens at 3200mV)
Apr 15 15:42:59 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, it shutdown on 0v before that
Apr 15 15:43:15 <ShadowJK> eh :)
Apr 15 15:43:54 <MohammadAG> is there a way to get rid of apt-worker? it annoys me :P
Apr 15 15:44:47 <slonopotamus> MohammadAG: mv /usr/sbin/apt-worked /usr/sbin/apt-worker.gone?
Apr 15 15:44:50 <slonopotamus> :)
Apr 15 15:45:16 * andrewfblack was up at 2am changing google password and running virus scans on windows computers in house
Apr 15 15:45:27 <MohammadAG> slonopotamus, and I'm assuming that would make it show errors every day at 12AM? :)
Apr 15 15:45:45 * n00bmonk3y_Work returneths
Apr 15 15:45:51 <MohammadAG> andrewfblack, I was up at 5AM fixing a package :P
Apr 15 15:46:12 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, looks like you got quite close to 3200mV at one point... The meter doesn't update often enough to accurately catch the rapid fall from about 3300 and down :)
Apr 15 15:46:23 <andrewfblack> MohammadAG: 5am I was leaving for work
Apr 15 15:46:47 <MohammadAG> andrewfblack, I went to bed after fixing it :P
Apr 15 15:46:52 <MohammadAG> was up for 24h
Apr 15 15:47:05 <slonopotamus> err... you go below 3500?
Apr 15 15:47:07 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, you do realize this isn't with a mugen right?
Apr 15 15:47:45 <ShadowJK> Yes, but voltage behaves the same with all batteries
Apr 15 15:48:06 <MohammadAG> <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, it shutdown on 0v before that
Apr 15 15:48:16 <MohammadAG> s/0/3227/
Apr 15 15:48:16 <infobot> MohammadAG meant: <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, it shutdown on 3227v before that
Apr 15 15:48:19 <andrewfblack> MohammadAG: I built a package last night also : )
Apr 15 15:48:20 <MohammadAG> :)
Apr 15 15:48:29 <MohammadAG> andrewfblack, theme?
Apr 15 15:48:52 <andrewfblack> MohammadAG: yep
Apr 15 15:48:57 * javispedro notes that some -developers messages are appearing blanked in gmane
Apr 15 15:49:01 * n00bmonk3y_Work built a package last night too.... no change there
Apr 15 15:49:11 <n00bmonk3y_Work> gmane?
Apr 15 15:49:18 <ShadowJK> Yeah, at 3227 all it takes is to touch the screen and it goes below 3200 for a split second, and the shutdown gets triggered :)
Apr 15 15:49:18 * nid0 built a server last night
Apr 15 15:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> heh, you battery hackers having fun ?  :-D
Apr 15 15:50:14 <andrewfblack> MohammadAG: did it all by hand this time sliced images then wrote all the control files and such much more fun then using a program to do it for me
Apr 15 15:51:10 <MohammadAG> andrewfblack, that's easier sometimes lol
Apr 15 15:51:15 <MohammadAG> especially for optification
Apr 15 15:51:23 <MohammadAG> ~curse 256MB root
Apr 15 15:51:24 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, 256MB root !
Apr 15 15:51:41 <DocScrutinizer> btw voltage *does not* behave same way for all cells
Apr 15 15:51:53 <DocScrutinizer> not even for cells of same type
Apr 15 15:52:17 <DocScrutinizer> there are still subtle diffs in cell chemistry
Apr 15 15:52:22 <ShadowJK> yes
Apr 15 15:52:35 <ShadowJK> and differences in internal resistance
Apr 15 15:52:38 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Apr 15 15:52:57 <andrewfblack> MohammadAG: I don't know about that maybe a little easier, my problem is since this theme isn't open source and I needed a .deb instead of source package I couldn't use MADDE an autobuilder to do it for me.  I've never goten Theme Maker to work since it was updated for Fremantle.
Apr 15 15:53:44 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: you can build in the SDK if need be
Apr 15 15:53:45 <MohammadAG> andrewfblack, I thought there weren't package builders for themes
Apr 15 15:53:56 <MohammadAG> thought you used dpkg-buildpackage for that
Apr 15 15:54:02 <MohammadAG> (with -b for binaries only)
Apr 15 15:54:35 * n00bmonk3y_Work raises an eyebrow
Apr 15 15:54:45 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: did you look into if it's OK to do things like that with the cc sa by 2.5 license, btw?
Apr 15 15:55:23 <Stskeeps> (reason i'm wondering is because the last thing i would like to see is a C&D from nokia towards you :P)
Apr 15 15:55:25 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, I wonder if I could estimate a battery's internal resistance using nothing but an N900 and bw27200 and bq24150 :)
Apr 15 15:55:37 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: Yeah since I'm changing the image in the template its ok.
Apr 15 15:55:38 * n00bmonk3y_Work will let the maemo lemmings loose on nokia if they do ;)
Apr 15 15:55:47 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: fair enough
Apr 15 15:56:00 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: I almost got a C&D from Nokia once before
Apr 15 15:56:09 <nid0> tbh, someone should write a touch lemmings game for maemo
Apr 15 15:56:18 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: oh?
Apr 15 15:56:26 <n00bmonk3y_Work> yup and get a C&D from nokia..... blasted lemmings
Apr 15 15:56:28 * Stskeeps didn't hear that story
Apr 15 15:56:37 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps: Even wondered why I closed Maemobox.org?
Apr 15 15:56:51 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: ah yes, trademarks
Apr 15 15:57:04 <Stskeeps> the sad fact is they have to defend them or lose them :/
Apr 15 15:57:57 <andrewfblack> Stskeeps:  Not that their are not 1000 websits using it now that are making money off their sites with ads and I was helping hte community with my site.  I could have changed the name and kept it going but I closed it
Apr 15 15:58:13 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: :nod:
Apr 15 15:58:15 <ZogG_N900> who wanted me in here :D
Apr 15 15:59:07 <ZogG_N900> stskeeps, it's lame to use grafic smilies in irc chan
Apr 15 15:59:19 <Stskeeps> ZogG_N900: eh.
Apr 15 15:59:55 <ZogG_N900> try xchat
Apr 15 16:00:04 <ZogG_N900> so sup guys?
Apr 15 16:00:18 <slonopotamus> :nod: doesn't really look like a smilie
Apr 15 16:00:22 <nid0> whats xchat got to do with typing :nod:?
Apr 15 16:00:22 <Stskeeps> it isn't
Apr 15 16:00:28 <Stskeeps> it's an equivalent of *nod*
Apr 15 16:00:54 <frals> pretty scary when a mod stealth merges threads
Apr 15 16:01:11 <guysoft42> hi all, does anyone know how to use mbarcode? i seem to have only a scan button, but not sure how its suppose to translate the 2D barcode
Apr 15 16:01:16 <ZogG_N900> i thoug it's something like :bored:smiles
Apr 15 16:01:18 <Stskeeps> no
Apr 15 16:01:49 <ZogG_N900> guysoft42 open lens and scan
Apr 15 16:01:54 <ptl> what will come first, Meego PR1.2 or Maemo PR1.2 ? :P
Apr 15 16:02:02 <guysoft42> ZogG_N900, ok, and once it sees a barcode?
Apr 15 16:02:05 <guysoft42> seems to to do anythong
Apr 15 16:02:09 <ZogG_N900> iphone os 5
Apr 15 16:02:27 <MohammadAG> ptl, 2012
Apr 15 16:02:33 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: (cell Z) sure - should be a straight forward approach
Apr 15 16:02:42 <ZogG_N900> guysoft42 u have to lock it in proper way. it would save image and provide url
Apr 15 16:02:45 <ptl> MohammadAG: yeah but which one will come first?
Apr 15 16:02:56 <ptl> meego's or maemo's?
Apr 15 16:03:05 <n00bmonk3y_Work> frals: even worse when they stealth merge 2 mega threads..... the servers start leaning sideways ;)
Apr 15 16:03:06 <ZogG_N900> mohammadag are u from jerusalem?
Apr 15 16:03:55 <ZogG_N900> ?
Apr 15 16:04:15 <MohammadAG> yeah
Apr 15 16:04:25 <ZogG_N900> i'm from tlv
Apr 15 16:04:33 <MohammadAG> ptl, 2010 is when we all die :P
Apr 15 16:04:36 <ZogG_N900> :)
Apr 15 16:04:37 <MohammadAG> 2012*
Apr 15 16:04:44 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: seems we got several means to probe exact battery voltage, and bq27200 should be able to tell discharge I *avrg* for a iirc 4sec window
Apr 15 16:04:50 <MohammadAG> (btw I'm jk, don't believe that ****)
Apr 15 16:04:58 <MohammadAG> ZogG_N900, cool!
Apr 15 16:05:05 <ShadowJK> 5.12 sec
Apr 15 16:05:09 <ZogG_N900> not me. i'll live till pr1.4
Apr 15 16:05:11 <MohammadAG> I'll be going to Jordan soon hopefully
Apr 15 16:05:32 <ZogG_N900> moving at all or for a while?
Apr 15 16:05:32 <ShadowJK> iirc voltage is updated every 1.2 sec or something
Apr 15 16:05:43 <MohammadAG> ZogG_N900, you're never dying then :)
Apr 15 16:05:53 <ZogG_N900> that's my point
Apr 15 16:06:04 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: so keep power consumption staedy at I(1) for 4sec, read out I and U, then do same for I(2)
Apr 15 16:06:17 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, mAhs don't seem to get updated while charging
Apr 15 16:06:32 <ZogG_N900> so how to jailbreak maemo?
Apr 15 16:06:45 <ZogG_N900> with whitedus1?
Apr 15 16:06:46 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, yeeah nme only updates voltage while charging. and that only if you poke the screen
Apr 15 16:06:50 <ZogG_N900> :)
Apr 15 16:07:08 <BCMM_> it isn,t ex�tly jailed to start with...
Apr 15 16:07:19 <BCMM_> woah, keyboard fail
Apr 15 16:07:24 <ptl> jailbreak?
Apr 15 16:07:26 <MohammadAG> ZogG_N900, no, y3ll0wp3ngu1n
Apr 15 16:07:29 <ZogG_N900> u fail
Apr 15 16:07:35 <MohammadAG> ptl, he's being sarcastic
Apr 15 16:07:40 <ptl> oh
Apr 15 16:07:43 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM_: DON't PANIC! ?
Apr 15 16:07:46 <ZogG_N900> :)
Apr 15 16:07:51 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, so on N8x0 I collected large amounts of per-second I and U and never managed to turn it into any consistent internal resistance :)
Apr 15 16:08:00 <ZogG_N900> i'm bored on bus
Apr 15 16:08:11 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, does it have to be on when I poke it? :P
Apr 15 16:08:12 <BCMM_> docscrutinizer got pretty confused about video encoding
Apr 15 16:08:19 <ptl> ZogG_N900: you can't jailbreak, but you can use a chroot jail :D like in easy-debian
Apr 15 16:08:20 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, yes
Apr 15 16:08:31 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, was jk... :)
Apr 15 16:08:37 <BCMM_> i presume it needs to be a video that plays in media player?
Apr 15 16:08:37 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: N810 I and maybe U probing might be borked at large
Apr 15 16:08:49 <ZogG_N900> ptl i can just hammerbrake it also
Apr 15 16:09:29 <ZogG_N900> so what is the possibility to port android apps?
Apr 15 16:09:45 <ZogG_N900> we need java for that am i right?
Apr 15 16:09:48 <luke-jr> nil afaik
Apr 15 16:09:57 <ptl> not standard java
Apr 15 16:09:58 <ptl> "android" java
Apr 15 16:10:12 <ZogG_N900> what's the different?
Apr 15 16:10:18 <luke-jr> android might as well be iPhone in that respect
Apr 15 16:10:19 <ZogG_N900> difference
Apr 15 16:10:28 <ptl> it has specific classes for androidisms (devices, security model and such)
Apr 15 16:10:35 <ptl> and it uses dalvik to run.
Apr 15 16:10:49 <ZogG_N900> so it's not possible?
Apr 15 16:10:54 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Apr 15 16:10:59 <ZogG_N900> i mean in friendly way
Apr 15 16:11:00 * ShadowJK wants to get all of those stupid "Gold BL-5J 1930 mAh battery"-type crap people find on ebay, and do tests
Apr 15 16:11:01 <ptl> I find it very improbably that someone does some compatibility layer for people to run android apps in maemo
Apr 15 16:11:02 <ZogG_N900> damn
Apr 15 16:11:05 <ptl> BUT
Apr 15 16:11:10 <ptl> there's a port of android to the N900 and N8*0
Apr 15 16:11:15 <ptl> called NITdroid
Apr 15 16:11:21 <ZogG_N900> i know
Apr 15 16:11:54 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: get find on ebaeh? please rephrase
Apr 15 16:11:58 <ZogG_N900> but i don't need it. i want andego
Apr 15 16:12:06 <ZogG_N900> andreego
Apr 15 16:12:07 <microlith> ShadowJK: probably a fraction of the claimed voltage, if not lower than a regular BL-5J
Apr 15 16:12:13 <microlith> err, capacity
Apr 15 16:12:26 <ptl> andre klapper's ego?
Apr 15 16:12:31 <ptl> andreego
Apr 15 16:13:16 <ZogG_N900> but is it possible to port opensource programs?
Apr 15 16:13:22 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, I plan to buy a collection of the different "superbattery" people have found on ebay
Apr 15 16:13:26 <ZogG_N900> if u port from java at all
Apr 15 16:13:27 <ShadowJK> and test them
Apr 15 16:13:44 <ShadowJK> for their capacity and internal resistance
Apr 15 16:13:56 <ptl> ZogG_N900: yes, very straightforward indeed
Apr 15 16:13:59 <ptl> ZogG_N900: there are many ports of standard linux apps to the N900
Apr 15 16:14:05 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: sorry, brain kickstart try 1 failed here
Apr 15 16:14:17 <ZogG_N900> ptl i know
Apr 15 16:14:24 <ShadowJK> Also the "genuine original nokia BL-5J" from DX
Apr 15 16:14:30 <luke-jr> ZogG_N900: Android sucks, simply.
Apr 15 16:14:36 <ptl> I missed what you might be asking then, ZogG_N900
Apr 15 16:14:36 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: great plan, indeed
Apr 15 16:14:45 <ZogG_N900> but they aren't mobile apps
Apr 15 16:15:11 <luke-jr> ZogG_N900: what you want is to run Android and Maemo concurrently, correct?
Apr 15 16:15:14 <ptl> well, they become mobile once they're ported. :)
Apr 15 16:15:19 <ZogG_N900> luke-jr maybe. but there r so many tasty apps
Apr 15 16:15:36 <BCMM> ZogG_N900: it's a normal linux machine, applications are written in C using GTK and the X server
Apr 15 16:15:42 <ShadowJK> Although Nokia itself says they can't tell some genuine and fake batteries apart without disassembly, I'm guessing there should be differences in the internal resistance atleast
Apr 15 16:15:51 <ZogG_N900> luke-jr nope. i want varity of android apps on maemo
Apr 15 16:15:51 <luke-jr> ZogG_N900: AFAIK, Android's kernel is still compatible with Linux and you should be able to combine it with MeeGo at some point
Apr 15 16:16:06 <luke-jr> ZogG_N900: Android and Maemo GUI are completely different
Apr 15 16:16:11 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: though cell Z is a secondary parameter actually, of minor importance as long as it's not way too high
Apr 15 16:16:32 <BCMM> android is linux of sorts, but with some kernel mods too weird to go upstream and a completely strange userspace
Apr 15 16:16:47 <ZogG_N900> google is evil
Apr 15 16:16:50 <javispedro> because android is the reincarnation of the BeOS!
Apr 15 16:16:59 <luke-jr> BCMM: Google and Linux parted ways and Android is officially a fork now
Apr 15 16:17:06 <ShadowJK> the bp-4l that came with my n810 has about 5 times higher ir now than when new :)
Apr 15 16:17:12 <ShadowJK> maybe more
Apr 15 16:17:14 <BCMM> luke-jr: i'd say that's pretty much the same thing
Apr 15 16:17:33 <BCMM> google isn't evil; all publicly-traded companies tend towards being amoral
Apr 15 16:17:34 <luke-jr> BCMM: they are already incompatible at the patchset level
Apr 15 16:17:45 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: second source cells either might not meet the abs max ratings, and/or have a way higher self discharge
Apr 15 16:17:55 <luke-jr> BCMM: publicly traded companies inherently tend toward evil
Apr 15 16:17:58 <BCMM> however, nokia understands that the open-source community is a good friend to keep
Apr 15 16:18:03 <ZogG_N900> google helps opensource only for their good
Apr 15 16:18:06 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: Z wouldn't vary much I'd guess
Apr 15 16:18:18 <luke-jr> BCMM: Nokia isn't much better
Apr 15 16:18:45 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, I guess I could just attach ATX 12V PSU output to them and video what happens
Apr 15 16:18:57 <ZogG_N900> nokia didn't use opensource as google til now
Apr 15 16:18:58 <BCMM> i don't think nokia does it out of the goodness of their heart, because they're a company
Apr 15 16:19:23 <BCMM> but i think they care more what the open source community thinks of them than google
Apr 15 16:19:34 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: all but the most crappy ones just will trip fuse
Apr 15 16:19:44 <SpeedEvil> Because they have less resources to spend.
Apr 15 16:19:51 <ShadowJK> ATX 5V then :)
Apr 15 16:19:52 <SpeedEvil> Maintaining a fork has its own costs.
Apr 15 16:19:58 <naxu> without business there wouldn't be maemo/meego
Apr 15 16:20:05 <luke-jr> BCMM: when you need to use people, you either pay them or are friendly
Apr 15 16:20:10 <luke-jr> Google does the first; Nokia does the latter
Apr 15 16:20:32 <BCMM> luke-jr: certainly, but i don't feel that nokia is being exploitative so much as "paying in kind"
Apr 15 16:20:55 <luke-jr> BCMM: Nokia refuses to open the important parts, so I certainly feel exploited
Apr 15 16:21:08 <BCMM> luke-jr: also, you've missed out the possibility of simply pressuring them microsoft-style, which is where google is going
Apr 15 16:21:17 <BCMM> luke-jr: actually, i'm kinda ignorant on that one
Apr 15 16:21:22 <BCMM> luke-jr: which bits are still closed?
Apr 15 16:21:40 <luke-jr> BCMM: battery charging is the important bit Nokia has complete control over
Apr 15 16:22:02 <BCMM> luke-jr: would it be possible to destroy a battery by overcharging without it?
Apr 15 16:22:05 <luke-jr> there's also some other bits they don't have direct control over, but I can't blame them entirely for that
Apr 15 16:22:10 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: hard
Apr 15 16:22:11 <luke-jr> BCMM: I don't care.
Apr 15 16:22:21 <luke-jr> it's my battery, I should be able to do what I want with it
Apr 15 16:22:23 <BCMM> maybe some safety stuff is in software rather than hardware?
Apr 15 16:22:30 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: you can ramp up the cycle count when on charger
Apr 15 16:22:33 <BCMM> they may be afraid of liability
Apr 15 16:22:37 <luke-jr> BCMM: maybe I want to make a smart bomb
Apr 15 16:22:57 <BCMM> what i'm saying is that it may not be intentional screwing of open-source
Apr 15 16:23:00 <luke-jr> once I buy the device, it's no longer Nokia's business to interfere with what I do with it
Apr 15 16:23:21 <luke-jr> BCMM: closed source only makes it easier to *accidentally* make a smart bomb
Apr 15 16:23:28 <nid0> thats a laughably blinkered and short-sighted attitude
Apr 15 16:23:38 <naxu> again that depends a alot from where in the world you buy the device
Apr 15 16:23:42 <luke-jr> you can still edit closed source software, it's just harder to do right and requires experimenting
Apr 15 16:23:42 <BCMM> a little like those wifi manufacturers that are (somewhat ignorantly) concerned that it would be their legal problem if someone modded an open driver to disobey regulatory requirements
Apr 15 16:23:58 <nid0> whether it's your device and whether you fucked about with the charging software, if you alter it and fuck your device, the headlines bemoaning shitty nokia will still damage nokia.
Apr 15 16:24:34 <luke-jr> nid0: so let them weigh *potential* damage from bad press in such a situation
Apr 15 16:24:34 <naxu> thats partly because of stupid miss-use of law in USA
Apr 15 16:24:35 <luke-jr> with
Apr 15 16:24:37 <DocScrutinizer> lucent: actually Nokia has rather little control over your battery charging. It's bq24150a chip that does the charging, even without much help from BME
Apr 15 16:24:45 <luke-jr> me not buying their new devices
Apr 15 16:24:47 <BCMM> down that road lies apple's "if people install shitty applications, they'll blame us"
Apr 15 16:24:49 <nid0> luke-jr: I imagine they did, long and hard, which is why it's closed.
Apr 15 16:24:49 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: ^^^
Apr 15 16:25:05 <BCMM> but where batteries are concerned, they could genuinly be worried about people hurting themselves and blaming nokia
Apr 15 16:25:06 <luke-jr> if enough people refuse to buy their stuff, they need to pick: possible risk vs certain loss
Apr 15 16:25:22 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: won't happen
Apr 15 16:25:34 <nid0> and people are still buying their devices, because most people couldnt give 2 shits about whether the battery charging software is open or closed
Apr 15 16:25:44 <luke-jr> nid0: exactly the problem :(
Apr 15 16:25:46 <nid0> whereas they have hundreds of thousands of potentially breakable batteries if it's open
Apr 15 16:25:50 <DocScrutinizer> we're about to convince Nokia about they don't need BME
Apr 15 16:25:56 <luke-jr> people need to start standing up for owning their purchases
Apr 15 16:26:11 <dotblank> How safe is it to overclock the n900 to say 800mhz? Like can I still use it day to day?
Apr 15 16:26:14 <luke-jr> nid0: they're already potentially breakable
Apr 15 16:26:23 <DocScrutinizer> dotblank: no
Apr 15 16:26:29 <GAN900> dotblank, not at all safe.
Apr 15 16:26:29 <luke-jr> dotblank: in general, the harm of overclocking is long-term
Apr 15 16:26:33 <dotblank> DocScrutinizer, how about 700mhz?
Apr 15 16:26:39 <DocScrutinizer> no
Apr 15 16:26:39 <BCMM> i'd like to know about overclocking actually - is the clock limited by default due to cooling or due to battery?
Apr 15 16:26:41 <luke-jr> dotblank: even if it works, the CPU will die much sooner
Apr 15 16:26:50 <dotblank> ah ok thanks
Apr 15 16:27:06 <GAN900> BCMM, due to overvoltage
Apr 15 16:27:33 <dotblank> I didn't now CPUs were prone to die..
Apr 15 16:27:33 <dotblank> know*
Apr 15 16:27:38 <GAN900> MTBF goes down rather quickly after 600MHz
Apr 15 16:27:47 <luke-jr> dotblank: especially modern ones...
Apr 15 16:27:55 <luke-jr> 1990s generation were designed to last
Apr 15 16:28:03 <luke-jr> but since 2000, they're designed to go 3-5 years or so
Apr 15 16:28:40 <dotblank> luke-jr, so they are designed to break basically..
Apr 15 16:28:45 <naxu> perhaps people are not ready to pay for "designed to last" stuff
Apr 15 16:28:46 <nid0> depends who you ask
Apr 15 16:28:55 <nid0> <cynic>: designed to break and make you buy new ones
Apr 15 16:29:11 <DocScrutinizer> dotblank: they are designed to run fast and be small
Apr 15 16:29:16 <nid0> <realist>: people only tend to use cpu's for 3-5 years anyway before upgrading so why spend billions making them more durable
Apr 15 16:29:18 <dotblank> well I spent a lot of money for my n900...
Apr 15 16:29:53 <dotblank> I expext my n900 to die from other factors in 3-5 years
Apr 15 16:29:56 <DocScrutinizer> dotblank: so don't kill it with foolish overclocking
Apr 15 16:29:57 <dotblank> expect*
Apr 15 16:30:01 <GAN900> dotblank, there are realistic limits in technology and costs.
Apr 15 16:30:23 <naxu> first manufacturer limits cpu to run in safe speed to quarantee it doesn't break and then people ramp it up
Apr 15 16:30:25 <nid0> which is exactly why theyre rated to certain clock speeds to last a reasonable time
Apr 15 16:30:34 <nid0> you go above the rated speed, it's lifespand decreases
Apr 15 16:30:35 <nid0> simple
Apr 15 16:30:55 <dotblank> nid0, is the inverse true?
Apr 15 16:31:01 <naxu> yeah.. and then blame "designed to break"
Apr 15 16:31:04 <nid0> sortof
Apr 15 16:31:05 <DocScrutinizer> decreases *drastically*
Apr 15 16:31:51 <luke-jr> dotblank: everything breaks with age
Apr 15 16:32:11 <dotblank> :( I like my gameboy
Apr 15 16:32:32 <dotblank> its still going strong
Apr 15 16:32:39 <DocScrutinizer> nand and flash will wear out
Apr 15 16:32:41 <luke-jr> dotblank: like, Z80? :p\
Apr 15 16:32:55 <nid0> I bet it's also spent a lot of time switched off
Apr 15 16:33:04 <DocScrutinizer> eventually, maybe next century
Apr 15 16:33:15 <dotblank> wait 2-5 years of constant use or average use?
Apr 15 16:33:18 <dotblank> 3-5*
Apr 15 16:33:53 <nid0> the mtbf of the chip running at high clock frequencies is measured in hundreds/thousands of hours, and is time actually running at that speed
Apr 15 16:33:57 <DocScrutinizer> MTBF is rated for operation hours
Apr 15 16:34:02 <luke-jr> constant, but power on/off isn't going to just freeze it
Apr 15 16:34:28 <dotblank> ah.. well it doesn't matter my n900 is usually on 24/7
Apr 15 16:34:41 <nid0> and your gameboy isnt :)
Apr 15 16:34:52 <luke-jr> anyhow, the CPU isn't the only component
Apr 15 16:34:56 <dotblank> nid0, your point is now very valid
Apr 15 16:34:58 <luke-jr> in 3-5 years, something else would break too
Apr 15 16:35:09 <luke-jr> why make a CPU to last 10-15 years if the rest will break first?
Apr 15 16:35:29 <BCMM> i still have my 3410
Apr 15 16:35:33 <tripzero> yes, but what if overclocking means it only lasts 1yr. or 6months? is it worth the risk?
Apr 15 16:35:35 <dotblank> Well what is the lifespan of the battery?
Apr 15 16:35:46 <tripzero> dotblank, 6hrs
Apr 15 16:35:51 <nid0> short. battery's replaceable though
Apr 15 16:36:12 <dotblank> tripzero, I wish my n900 had a 6hr battery
Apr 15 16:36:26 <dotblank> mine goes down in about 3-4
Apr 15 16:36:31 <tripzero> ouch
Apr 15 16:36:38 <luke-jr> dotblank: try not using it
Apr 15 16:36:42 <BCMM> dotblank: what do you do with it?
Apr 15 16:36:49 <dotblank> everything
Apr 15 16:36:50 <BCMM> yeah, what luke-jr said...
Apr 15 16:36:53 <tripzero> mine lives at least until i get home from work
Apr 15 16:36:55 <luke-jr> apparently Nokia thinks you're not supposed to use the device
Apr 15 16:37:15 <BCMM> well, you can go out all day waiting for a phone call and it will deal with it
Apr 15 16:37:28 <luke-jr> it's not a phone
Apr 15 16:37:28 <BCMM> and if your'e actually doing stuff with it, it will still last longer than most netbooks
Apr 15 16:37:41 <dotblank> well I have a car charger now
Apr 15 16:37:42 <dotblank> so that helps drastically
Apr 15 16:37:57 <nid0> I do have to wonder why the device has a relatively low capacity battery in it :<
Apr 15 16:37:58 <luke-jr> my N810 dies in 15 minutes at most, so I keep it on AC constantly
Apr 15 16:37:59 <tripzero> make a solar panel hat
Apr 15 16:38:03 <DocScrutinizer> also keep in mind MTBF is the time when HALF of the devices actually FAILED. You got a gaussian curve around that of devices failing more early or which last longer
Apr 15 16:38:08 <tripzero> and charge it in your pocket
Apr 15 16:38:31 <BCMM> nid0: so it can be small
Apr 15 16:38:38 <BCMM> if you don't mind size, get one of those external things
Apr 15 16:38:46 <nid0> well, nokia have other batteries the same volume that're more powerful
Apr 15 16:38:54 <dotblank> I heard rumors about hi cap batteries
Apr 15 16:38:56 <BCMM> nid0: oh
Apr 15 16:39:10 <dotblank> that one from ebay
Apr 15 16:39:11 <nid0> bp-4l is a prime example, that's several years older than the bl-5j, has almost identical volume, and is 1500mAh
Apr 15 16:39:15 <luke-jr> dotblank: it's twice the size
Apr 15 16:39:32 <luke-jr> nid0: perhaps it can't do as much instantaneously?
Apr 15 16:39:46 <javispedro> or weights a ton more?
Apr 15 16:40:03 <luke-jr> I seriously wouldn't mind my handheld being a bit thicker and weighing a bit more
Apr 15 16:40:14 <luke-jr> even twice the thickness of my N810 would be tolerable
Apr 15 16:40:22 <nid0> weight's pretty much the same. even if weight was the reason, id gladly take a fractionally heavier n900 for 10% better battery
Apr 15 16:40:23 <naxu> I believe there is a reason for selecting current battery
Apr 15 16:40:48 * javispedro 's preferred form factor is still the n810.
Apr 15 16:41:02 <dotblank> like my n900 is my lifeline.. If I were to be stuck in a situation I would really really want my n900 and having it die on me is not very reliable
Apr 15 16:41:06 * nid0 's is the e90
Apr 15 16:41:08 <Disconnect> javispedro: i'll trade you an n800 and n770 for an n900 :)
Apr 15 16:41:23 <Disconnect> for that matter, i have an e90 also. so pick any 2 :)
Apr 15 16:41:31 * luke-jr 's preferred form factor is still the C760 :/
Apr 15 16:41:53 <nid0> you'll miss the e90's keyboard if you get an n900
Apr 15 16:41:56 <Disconnect> ok people who's been poking around in my office? got a c760 too :)
Apr 15 16:42:21 <javispedro> luke-jr: http://www.lexmark.com/publications/pubs_images/c760.jpg :)
Apr 15 16:42:53 <Disconnect> http://www.mobiletechreview.com/sharp_zaurus_C760.htm
Apr 15 16:44:01 <Disconnect> oops might be an 860. checking.
Apr 15 16:44:16 <luke-jr> javispedro: fail
Apr 15 16:44:21 <javispedro> I imagine :)
Apr 15 16:44:31 <luke-jr> speaking of which, anyone got detailed specs on the new IS01?
Apr 15 16:45:06 <Disconnect> yah its an 860 on my shelf. should prolly see if it still works one of these days.
Apr 15 16:45:40 <luke-jr> Disconnect: my battery is useless
Apr 15 16:46:01 <Disconnect> i -think- i stored the battery properly, but i won't swear to it. and its been at least a couple years.
Apr 15 16:47:01 <DocScrutinizer> that's definitely NOT a proper storage then
Apr 15 16:47:34 <DocScrutinizer> you must recharge LiIon at least every 6 months
Apr 15 16:48:35 <DocScrutinizer> after a few years of storage odds are it's dead to deep self discharge
Apr 15 16:49:01 <DocScrutinizer> s/dead to/dead due to/
Apr 15 16:49:02 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: after a few years of storage odds are it's dead due to deep self discharge
Apr 15 16:49:32 <ShadowJK> I didn't think li-ion discharges itself that fast
Apr 15 16:49:49 <ShadowJK> unless it has a hungry chip in it..
Apr 15 16:50:06 <luke-jr> http://au-is.jp/products/images/is01/features/photo03.jpg
Apr 15 16:51:46 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that largely depends on quality of the cell (see my above comment on second source)
Apr 15 16:52:58 <SpeedEvil> Charging to 40%, placing in freezer works well
Apr 15 16:53:08 <SpeedEvil> charge every few months
Apr 15 16:53:11 <SpeedEvil> (for me)
Apr 15 16:53:48 <DocScrutinizer> if the cell uses a thin separator for good electrical properties wrt capacitance and Z, then any impurities in manufacturing process tend to more likely pierce that separator creating micro-shorts
Apr 15 16:54:27 <DocScrutinizer> and also more likely goes boom due to same problem
Apr 15 16:54:34 <itdock> lol
Apr 15 16:55:04 <Disconnect> the manufs tend to call for 90% charge (or so) followed by cool storage (not freezing) and it should be good for months to years. at 100% its good for weeks to months.
Apr 15 16:55:25 <Disconnect> but in any case, maybe i'll break it out this weekend and mess with it
Apr 15 16:55:36 <itdock> what voltage would it be at 40%
Apr 15 16:55:56 * itdock gets out his trusty fluke 115
Apr 15 16:56:12 <DocScrutinizer> depends
Apr 15 16:56:36 <DocScrutinizer> it's more about actual voltage than about capacity anyway
Apr 15 16:56:59 <itdock> k, what voltage should it be at then
Apr 15 16:57:00 <itdock> :P
Apr 15 16:57:11 <ShadowJK> what is it at?
Apr 15 16:57:23 <DocScrutinizer> so if the cell is less than 4V and more than 3V7 you usually are in the 'green range' for storing
Apr 15 16:57:52 <itdock> so 3.7-4v, and in the fridge?
Apr 15 16:58:11 <DocScrutinizer> 10°C
Apr 15 16:58:29 <DocScrutinizer> actually 0°..10°
Apr 15 16:58:37 <itdock> freezer then
Apr 15 16:58:38 <itdock> ok
Apr 15 16:58:44 <X-Fade> New lipos usually have 3.80 - 3.85 when I get them.
Apr 15 16:58:55 <ShadowJK> freezer is -18 :P
Apr 15 16:59:06 <DocScrutinizer> NON-FREEZING
Apr 15 16:59:29 <ShadowJK> non-condensating helps too ;)
Apr 15 16:59:40 <DocScrutinizer> yep, a lot
Apr 15 16:59:52 <itdock> lol ok
Apr 15 16:59:55 <DocScrutinizer> platic bag with silica gel
Apr 15 17:01:13 <ShadowJK> X-Fade, that sounds right
Apr 15 17:01:19 <ShadowJK> I think that's where the lowest degradation takes place
Apr 15 17:02:14 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Apr 15 17:03:56 <DocScrutinizer> some laptops have a 'treat battery gentle' setting, where the cells aren't charged to the max allowable voltage. Supposed to prolong bat lifespan by factors
Apr 15 17:05:19 <DocScrutinizer> yet it's probably much better not the keep the battery pack plugged in to a device that warms up the whole thing to 45°+ all the time, while hooked up to mains
Apr 15 17:06:45 <SpeedEvil> Freezer is -18. But look at the cell datasheets - I haven't found one that says storing at -20 isn't OK
Apr 15 17:07:09 <DocScrutinizer> not? me did
Apr 15 17:08:14 <DocScrutinizer> actually -20 isn't even allowable for all *operational* conditions
Apr 15 17:08:45 <ShadowJK> The bq27200 temperature readings scare me
Apr 15 17:09:21 <ShadowJK> 33 right now. Seen 51C
Apr 15 17:09:28 <DocScrutinizer> forget the temp readings, they are mostly bogus
Apr 15 17:09:46 <DocScrutinizer> that's die temp of the chip afaik
Apr 15 17:09:47 <evil|Jonne> small question about ssh access, what username and password should i use? I don't remember setting one
Apr 15 17:09:55 <ShadowJK> I guess the ones from gaia's madc would be more useful
Apr 15 17:10:04 <PhonicUK> anyone know if the quake 2 port uses GLES or is it just software rendering?
Apr 15 17:10:22 <frals> am i being silly or isnt it obvious to long tap an image to get a context menu?
Apr 15 17:11:13 <ShadowJK> evil|Jonne, it asks you to set a root password when you install openssh. If you've forgotten it, you cn install rootsh and do 'sudo gainroot' followed by 'passwd root' to set it again
Apr 15 17:11:26 <DocScrutinizer> evil|Jonne: you have set a root password when installing ssh
Apr 15 17:11:38 <evil|Jonne> ok, i'll try again
Apr 15 17:11:53 <DocScrutinizer> user has no pw by default, so no ssh into user account
Apr 15 17:12:04 <evil|Jonne> oh, ok
Apr 15 17:12:07 <evil|Jonne> i did set one
Apr 15 17:12:13 <evil|Jonne> tnx, logged in now
Apr 15 17:12:19 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Apr 15 17:12:33 <evil|Jonne> can i set up a pass for user?
Apr 15 17:12:38 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Apr 15 17:12:42 <evil|Jonne> meh, i guess root is fine
Apr 15 17:14:24 <DocScrutinizer> evil|Jonne: I suggest to set up decent ssh keys and log in to user by default
Apr 15 17:14:41 <DocScrutinizer> most convenient, most safe
Apr 15 17:14:48 <evil|Jonne> i might just do that
Apr 15 17:15:13 <evil|Jonne> i'm trying to find a way to have my phone mount wirelessly on my pc when i get home
Apr 15 17:15:24 <evil|Jonne> without having to do anything
Apr 15 17:15:43 <kynky> cron job every 5 mins ?
Apr 15 17:16:14 <evil|Jonne> i don't know how to do it yet, i guess whatever doesn't put too much load on my phone
Apr 15 17:16:16 <DocScrutinizer> with a ping or sth, yes
Apr 15 17:16:37 <DocScrutinizer> nah, cronjob on your home PC
Apr 15 17:17:29 <evil|Jonne> maybe i could have a daemon that listens on avahi or something
Apr 15 17:18:05 <evil|Jonne> has anyone blogged about something like that yet so i don't have to reinvent warm water?
Apr 15 17:22:57 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke avahi
Apr 15 17:22:58 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at avahi ... B☢☢M!
Apr 15 17:28:03 <BCMM> how long does an n900 take to charge?
Apr 15 17:28:09 <MohammadAG> 4 hours here
Apr 15 17:28:13 <BCMM> hmm
Apr 15 17:28:17 <BCMM> longer if you're using it?
Apr 15 17:28:24 <MohammadAG> that's if I'm using it
Apr 15 17:28:32 <BCMM> gah, xchat is highlighting my own messages
Apr 15 17:28:33 <lcuk> depends on wind, and usage at the time, radios, screen, cpu etc.
Apr 15 17:28:42 <MohammadAG> I think it takes 1.5-2h
Apr 15 17:28:53 <MohammadAG> lcuk, what about gravitational force?
Apr 15 17:29:21 <BCMM> is there a way i can get xchat to always highlight BCMM, but not automatically highlight everything *said by* BCMM?
Apr 15 17:30:05 <BCMM> sorry, that didn't make a great deal of sense
Apr 15 17:30:27 <BCMM> this is a computer
Apr 15 17:30:29 <BCMM_> and this is my phone
Apr 15 17:30:42 <lcuk> MohammadAG, the battery uses the accelerometer to compensate on the direciton of the electron flux flow
Apr 15 17:30:57 <lcuk> to ensure the polarity of the warp core is aligned correctly
Apr 15 17:31:07 <lcuk> or something like that
Apr 15 17:31:08 <Proteous> lol
Apr 15 17:31:38 <MohammadAG> lcuk, what if I'm at the north pole
Apr 15 17:31:44 <MohammadAG> and have the charger in the south pole
Apr 15 17:31:50 <lcuk> you have frozen nuts
Apr 15 17:31:52 <javispedro> acccccccccelerometer.
Apr 15 17:31:57 <javispedro> not magnetometer.
Apr 15 17:32:00 <javispedro> ;P
Apr 15 17:32:02 <frals> thats one long fuckin cord MohammadAG
Apr 15 17:32:11 <MohammadAG> frals, extensions XD
Apr 15 17:32:12 <BCMM> hmm
Apr 15 17:32:14 <lcuk> much shorter if its been dug through
Apr 15 17:32:32 <BCMM> what's the simplest way to look at accellerometer data?
Apr 15 17:32:44 <lcuk> liqflow
Apr 15 17:32:50 <lcuk> you can touch it too :D
Apr 15 17:32:52 <BCMM> i mean, to just get three numbers in m/s
Apr 15 17:32:53 <frals> BCMM: wiki.maemo.org should have excellent documentation if you want to use it for programming
Apr 15 17:33:01 <BCMM> nah, just interested
Apr 15 17:33:04 <MohammadAG> lcuk, umm, I meant it goes through the center of the earth
Apr 15 17:33:14 <MohammadAG> i don't have one long enough to go around the globe
Apr 15 17:33:19 <BCMM> what is available?
Apr 15 17:33:22 <BCMM> three axes?
Apr 15 17:33:30 * frals heads back to trying to wrap his head around BCD encoding and HPLMN
Apr 15 17:33:33 <lcuk> liqacceltests
Apr 15 17:33:51 <BCMM> and is there a rotation sensor, or does one just guess rotation from the direction of gravity?
Apr 15 17:34:12 <Jaffa> timeless: ping
Apr 15 17:34:38 <Jaffa> (or anyone else: kcan a proxy be used with browser in Scratchbox?)
Apr 15 17:35:54 <BCMM> i have seen several password management things
Apr 15 17:36:10 <BCMM> is there any way to integrate with or import from kwallet?
Apr 15 17:36:31 <DocScrutinizer> bat charge time 3:30 according to Nokia specs in L1/2
Apr 15 17:37:40 <DocScrutinizer> during first ~60 minutes excessive power consumption of system will slow down charging, afterwards not
Apr 15 17:38:22 * slonopotamus managed to drain battery faster than it charges
Apr 15 17:38:31 <slonopotamus> *manages
Apr 15 17:38:49 <SpeedEvil> There is no absolute direction sensor, only the accel.
Apr 15 17:38:59 <DocScrutinizer> that's quite possible especially when charging from PC host @ 500mA
Apr 15 17:39:15 <slonopotamus> no, even stock n900 charger
Apr 15 17:39:41 <DocScrutinizer> hmm that's bad. You really push it to the limits.
Apr 15 17:40:07 <cehteh> huh .. how that?
Apr 15 17:40:20 <slonopotamus> intensive cpu usage + wifi + bright screen = really fast battery drain.
Apr 15 17:40:35 <cehteh> means 1.2A at least ..
Apr 15 17:40:45 <DocScrutinizer> BQ24150 charger chip can supply 1050mA (@ 5V aiui). So that'd mean your system blasts out >5W
Apr 15 17:41:25 <slonopotamus> well, under 100% cpu load n900 lives for 3 hours
Apr 15 17:41:40 <cehteh> yeah it should melt :P
Apr 15 17:41:54 <DocScrutinizer> nah, you obviously use GPRS or 3G quite a lot
Apr 15 17:42:04 <cehteh> well, see the overclocker crowd
Apr 15 17:42:09 * RST38h yawns at the moon
Apr 15 17:42:10 <DocScrutinizer> even CPU shouldn't be able to suck that much power
Apr 15 17:42:13 <cehteh> anyone fried his n900 yet?
Apr 15 17:42:16 <javispedro> moo RST38h
Apr 15 17:42:34 <RST38h> slono: how about the top temperature? Transmission seems to bring n900 to the boiling point
Apr 15 17:42:38 <RST38h> javis: Heya indeed
Apr 15 17:42:50 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer: using 3g while on charges is a strange thing :) since charger = wall = house = wifi hearby
Apr 15 17:42:56 <slonopotamus> *nearby
Apr 15 17:43:02 <cehteh> are there user reachable temperature sensors?
Apr 15 17:43:17 <cehteh> tell the battery-graph author to integrate them :P
Apr 15 17:43:18 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: no, but some trolls electrocuted err -migrated their CPU to senility
Apr 15 17:43:29 <Disconnect> slonopotamus: ...you gonna install wifi in my car? :)
Apr 15 17:43:34 <Disconnect> that'd be sweet
Apr 15 17:43:37 <Disconnect> thanks :)
Apr 15 17:43:58 <slonopotamus> Disconnect: you have 220v in your car? :)
Apr 15 17:44:07 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: you're talking gibberish
Apr 15 17:44:07 <Disconnect> slonopotamus: 110 actually, but yes.
Apr 15 17:44:16 <slonopotamus> Disconnect: ricer!
Apr 15 17:45:03 <Disconnect> jeep. with an ac adapter in it for laptops and the wif's cell (since she lost the car charger). nice leap you made to that conclusion though, but next time be more careful - your pants fell down and your racism was showing..
Apr 15 17:45:23 <slonopotamus> you do 12v -> 110v -> 5v conversion. extremely ineffective
Apr 15 17:45:37 <slonopotamus> or cars have 24? can't remember
Apr 15 17:45:59 <jaska> most have 12
Apr 15 17:46:09 * slonopotamus failed to get joke about racism
Apr 15 17:46:41 * DocScrutinizer failed to get any joke
Apr 15 17:47:24 <Disconnect> slonopotamus: around here at least, ricer is slang for an asian with a lowered sticker-endowed civic or similar. hence the "rice" part.
Apr 15 17:47:24 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict ricer
Apr 15 17:47:27 <infobot> Dictionary 'ricer' a kitchen utensil used for ricing soft foods by extruding them through small holes
Apr 15 17:48:38 <slonopotamus> meh
Apr 15 17:48:45 <slonopotamus> be more geeky
Apr 15 17:48:47 * DocScrutinizer shrugs and wanders away for more intriguing stuff
Apr 15 17:48:52 <MohammadAG> lol
Apr 15 17:49:02 <slonopotamus> or die.
Apr 15 17:49:12 <SpeedEvil> Impressive.
Apr 15 17:49:25 <slonopotamus> :)
Apr 15 17:49:26 <SpeedEvil> I get a maximum load of ~1.5A
Apr 15 17:49:28 <Disconnect> when i'm not driving a billboard i'll consider spending a few hundred on various laptop-to-car adapters for efficiency. until then, the ac adapters are $30 or so :)
Apr 15 17:49:46 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: how?
Apr 15 17:50:02 <SpeedEvil> Recording video while sending file over 3G, and md5sum /dev/zero at the same time
Apr 15 17:50:03 <DocScrutinizer> GPRS/3G full blast
Apr 15 17:50:11 <Shapeshifter> this survey was kinda lame. and it's buggy.
Apr 15 17:50:26 <SpeedEvil> Annoyingly, the camera mutes the media player - so I couldn't have that at full volume too
Apr 15 17:51:09 <BCMM> hmm those accellerometer toys are fun
Apr 15 17:51:24 <BCMM> but i was looking for something that would give me a value of little-g
Apr 15 17:51:26 <SpeedEvil> hmm - mplayer doesn't mute video player
Apr 15 17:51:35 <BCMM> and allow me to determine which planet i'm on
Apr 15 17:51:45 <slonopotamus> SpeedEvil: md5sum /dev/zero? and what value did you get?
Apr 15 17:51:59 <BCMM> surely that would never return?
Apr 15 17:52:04 <SpeedEvil> BCMM cat /sys/whatever/coords - and it reads out x/y/z accel
Apr 15 17:52:09 <SpeedEvil> slonopotamus: do it and let me know
Apr 15 17:52:13 <BCMM> isn't /dev/zero an infinite number of nulls
Apr 15 17:52:14 <BCMM> ?
Apr 15 17:52:19 <SpeedEvil> yes
Apr 15 17:53:20 * slonopotamus charges his n900 from TV :/
Apr 15 17:54:21 <slonopotamus> something's broken in this world
Apr 15 17:55:05 <SpeedEvil> I suspect using mplayer to record from the big camera, with flashlight on, while streaming a file to 3g, and md5sum of the mmc and sd, with fm transmitter on, fm radio on, and mplayer playing something loud to the speakers, with bounce running would be pretty much the maximum.
Apr 15 17:55:11 <SpeedEvil> Well - easy maximum
Apr 15 17:55:25 <slonopotamus> overcomplicated
Apr 15 17:55:39 <slonopotamus> just compile firefox
Apr 15 17:55:48 <SpeedEvil> that only does the CPU
Apr 15 17:55:53 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, you forgot to connect your bt keyboard
Apr 15 17:56:27 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: yeah - that too - but bt won't add that much. wlan up too at the same time is hard with current software
Apr 15 17:56:32 <slonopotamus> actually i drsin n900 battery in 2 hours with just browser + 3g.
Apr 15 17:56:48 <SpeedEvil> I'm sure under 1 hour is quite possible.
Apr 15 17:56:50 <frals> god this encoding is silly
Apr 15 17:57:10 <slonopotamus> frals: all encodings are silly
Apr 15 17:57:31 <slonopotamus> use UTF-8. it's silly too, but at least works for everyone.
Apr 15 17:57:42 <spliffy> speedevil: if you want to go faster you need to oc :D
Apr 15 17:57:59 <frals> slonopotamus: in this case its BCD encoding of bytes, but yeah ^^
Apr 15 17:58:18 <slonopotamus> meh
Apr 15 17:58:24 <DocScrutinizer> (1A5 power consumption) refer NOKIA_RX51_SM_L3_4.pdf, p170 (6 System Module, Energy Management, Power Distribution block diagram)
Apr 15 17:58:58 <slonopotamus> frals: you were so excited talking about it so i googled wtf is bcd :)
Apr 15 17:59:58 <DocScrutinizer> sorry scratch that, once again they managed to spoil it at lowest possible level of the game, electric current annotations mostly missing there
Apr 15 18:06:23 * ShadowJK has seen 1100mA consumption
Apr 15 18:06:56 <BCMM> anyone know what the n900's value of g is?
Apr 15 18:07:14 <microlith> g?
Apr 15 18:07:48 <DocScrutinizer> the N900 itself probably has some atto-g
Apr 15 18:08:09 <javispedro> ~answer
Apr 15 18:08:10 <infobot> 42
Apr 15 18:08:13 <BCMM> hmm i assume it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity
Apr 15 18:08:15 * ShadowJK makes a guess: 9.81m/s^2
Apr 15 18:08:15 <javispedro> there you have.
Apr 15 18:08:24 <sp3000> timeless_mbp: my one-handed handle abuse survived just finr until 10m before home ;)
Apr 15 18:08:34 * sp3000 had to switch ends
Apr 15 18:08:35 <BCMM> if so, it's really pretty accurate...
Apr 15 18:08:52 <BCMM> accurate enough to notice that UK gravity is slightly higher
Apr 15 18:08:56 <N900evil> BCMM: it's not
Apr 15 18:08:59 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that's earth's g
Apr 15 18:09:04 <DocScrutinizer> not N900's
Apr 15 18:09:21 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: 9.81 is not correct for all parts of earth
Apr 15 18:09:33 <BCMM> (9.8 is)
Apr 15 18:09:36 <N900evil> BCMM: the accelleromedters are specified to +-20% or so sensitivity
Apr 15 18:09:49 <ShadowJK> I guess n900's g would vary alot depending on where on its surface you were standing
Apr 15 18:09:53 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, somewhere near core it's much less XP
Apr 15 18:10:21 <BCMM> 9.78 in jakarta
Apr 15 18:10:35 <BCMM> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_gravity#Comparative_gravities_in_various_cities_around_the_world
Apr 15 18:10:40 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: correct :-D
Apr 15 18:10:54 <N900evil> there is considerable variance between n900s
Apr 15 18:11:44 <DocScrutinizer> ~question
Apr 15 18:11:45 <infobot> from memory, question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Apr 15 18:11:52 <BCMM> 9.81 is basically a british exam board value
Apr 15 18:12:22 <DocScrutinizer> ~answer
Apr 15 18:12:23 <infobot> 42
Apr 15 18:12:24 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: ouch
Apr 15 18:13:10 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: N900's g-sensor is a LIS302. Datasheet is publically available
Apr 15 18:13:30 <BCMM> ah, looks like my value of 1008 is much, much higher than any earth value of g
Apr 15 18:13:37 <DocScrutinizer> N900evil: btw N900 has just one accel
Apr 15 18:13:44 <BCMM> eh?
Apr 15 18:14:05 <N900evil> yes - variation between n900s
Apr 15 18:14:50 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: no, as you got no clue yet on what the unit of those 1008 actually is
Apr 15 18:14:59 <dsster> It has ... ARRIVED
Apr 15 18:15:28 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: i assumed it was 1000th of the international standard gravity
Apr 15 18:15:34 <N900evil> it's nominally milligee
Apr 15 18:15:44 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: might be
Apr 15 18:15:48 <N900evil> but measured very im.precisely
Apr 15 18:16:13 <DocScrutinizer> so an error of 0.8% isn't bad
Apr 15 18:16:20 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: and it would still be wrong if it was, for some reason, calibrated for mexico city
Apr 15 18:16:31 <BCMM> (one of the lowest-gravity places on earth)
Apr 15 18:16:39 <N900evil> it is not calibrated
Apr 15 18:16:44 <BCMM> oh, it's not bad at all
Apr 15 18:16:53 <dsster> It's so awesome
Apr 15 18:16:54 <N900evil> it assumes a value of 18mg/bit.
Apr 15 18:17:08 <N900evil> This varies in reality considerably.
Apr 15 18:17:23 <N900evil> there is no per-sensor calibration
Apr 15 18:17:33 <BCMM> i wonder how accurate it could be if you calibrated it
Apr 15 18:17:43 <DocScrutinizer> see datasheet
Apr 15 18:17:48 <BCMM> even roughly by using an accepted local value of g
Apr 15 18:17:51 <RST38h> well it seems to be calibrated to -1000..1000 somehow
Apr 15 18:17:59 <N900evil> it assumes a value of 18mg/bit.
Apr 15 18:18:21 <N900evil> the spec is from 15 to 22 IIRC
Apr 15 18:18:32 <DocScrutinizer> see datasheet see datasheetsee datasheetsee datasheet
Apr 15 18:18:43 <RST38h> datasheetsee?
Apr 15 18:18:46 <BCMM> RST38h: 1000 is supposed to be a g, you can go much higher by shaking it
Apr 15 18:18:50 <RST38h> as in datashitsy?
Apr 15 18:19:19 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: +/2 or +/-8 iirc
Apr 15 18:20:11 <BCMM> hmm
Apr 15 18:20:20 <BCMM> i'd never throw something so expensive around
Apr 15 18:20:50 <BCMM> but i am tempted to develop a script taht makes it scream if it detects freefall
Apr 15 18:21:16 <lcuk> BCMM, play n900fly
Apr 15 18:21:33 <BCMM> lcuk: is that the one that estimates flight time from a throw?
Apr 15 18:21:48 <DocScrutinizer> hight
Apr 15 18:21:57 <BCMM> same thing :)
Apr 15 18:22:12 <ShadowJK> oh manh
Apr 15 18:22:12 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Apr 15 18:22:30 <woglinde> ~seen stskeeps
Apr 15 18:22:33 <infobot> stskeeps <~chobits@Maemo/community/distmaster/Stskeeps> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 1h 45m 18s ago, saying: 'after working a while with rpm, i'm fairly happy with it'.
Apr 15 18:22:52 <ShadowJK> I thought my mp3 player was broken and was just going to disassemble it - turns ou the AAA battery I stole from someone was empty. Who the fuck puts dead batteries back in the box :-(
Apr 15 18:22:57 <luke-jr> wait... Stskeeps is chobits??
Apr 15 18:23:10 <woglinde> hi luke-jr
Apr 15 18:23:32 <luke-jr> hi woglinde
Apr 15 18:24:12 <slonopotamus> woglinde: he is already happy for 105 minutes!
Apr 15 18:24:23 <woglinde> with rpm
Apr 15 18:24:28 <woglinde> cannt believe it
Apr 15 18:24:52 <woglinde> hm has somone running a git linux-omap kernel on the n810?
Apr 15 18:25:06 <slonopotamus> in the past
Apr 15 18:25:20 <slonopotamus> it's totally broken currently
Apr 15 18:25:29 <woglinde> slonopotamus hm could you see dmesg output?
Apr 15 18:25:46 <slonopotamus> woglinde: nope, not me
Apr 15 18:26:03 <woglinde> hm okay
Apr 15 18:26:18 <woglinde> I tried to get it working with kexec
Apr 15 18:26:23 <Stskeeps> woglinde ?
Apr 15 18:26:24 <dsster> how do i type ~ in n900?
Apr 15 18:26:28 <woglinde> so I can easily switch kernels
Apr 15 18:26:37 <slonopotamus> haha
Apr 15 18:26:42 <woglinde> ah stskeeps see my linux-omap questions
Apr 15 18:26:47 <ShadowJK> dsster, fn+sym, double tap ~ from the thing that pops up
Apr 15 18:27:00 <ShadowJK> if you tap it only once, and then press n, you get ñ
Apr 15 18:27:01 <woglinde> slonopotamus but without kernel output I cannt see whats going wrong
Apr 15 18:27:10 <woglinde> at least usbnet seems to work
Apr 15 18:27:11 <Stskeeps> woglinde: yes, termana - there's a thread on talk.maemo.org
Apr 15 18:27:11 <slonopotamus> ShadowJK: i doubt he has vkb while doing kexec
Apr 15 18:27:20 <dsster> ooh cool ty
Apr 15 18:27:27 <ShadowJK> slonopotamus, I didn't know dsster was doing kexec?
Apr 15 18:27:39 <slonopotamus> ah
Apr 15 18:27:49 * slonopotamus messed up
Apr 15 18:27:54 <ShadowJK> yes :P
Apr 15 18:28:02 <luke-jr> woglinde: the time it would take to port mainline or Linux-OMAP to N8x0 would cost me more than a N900 ;(
Apr 15 18:28:17 <Stskeeps> termana's work seems pretty ok :P
Apr 15 18:28:26 <luke-jr> also, kexec is untested mostly AFAIK
Apr 15 18:28:40 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: I haven't checked it lately
Apr 15 18:28:56 <Stskeeps> woglinde: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48929
Apr 15 18:29:01 <woglinde> MeeGo hardware adaptation for N8x0?
Apr 15 18:29:05 <woglinde> ah thanks
Apr 15 18:29:28 <luke-jr> http://elinux.org/N800
Apr 15 18:30:46 <luke-jr> hmm
Apr 15 18:30:48 <woglinde> luke-jr yeah this side I already read
Apr 15 18:30:56 <luke-jr> Termana hasn't updated it
Apr 15 18:30:59 <woglinde> and I have kernels
Apr 15 18:31:06 <woglinde> but not kernel output
Apr 15 18:31:13 <johnsq> Hi
Apr 15 18:32:25 <woglinde> hms okay
Apr 15 18:32:27 <woglinde> here is no good omapfb driver for N8x0 for Xorg sadly
Apr 15 18:32:32 <woglinde> from stskeep
Apr 15 18:32:42 <Stskeeps> woglinde: use Xomap, or help write one :P
Apr 15 18:33:15 <wazd1> damn, e63 gets new firmware like every month :)
Apr 15 18:33:23 <luke-jr> woglinde: fbdev works
Apr 15 18:33:40 <woglinde> luke-jr okay what I have to compile to see it?
Apr 15 18:33:54 <woglinde> with which patches?
Apr 15 18:34:02 <lcuk> tech heads: how many times can i safely flash a device before it starts to lose its marbles
Apr 15 18:34:05 <dsster> hmm i cant figure out why it doesn't want to type it in. It's selected but it wont type it out
Apr 15 18:34:19 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i have flashed my device an obscene amount of times
Apr 15 18:34:24 <woglinde> lcuk a lot
Apr 15 18:34:42 <lcuk> :) thats good to know
Apr 15 18:34:52 * lcuk is also being a little obscene atm
Apr 15 18:34:56 <woglinde> hi lcuk
Apr 15 18:34:57 <luke-jr> ~seen termana
Apr 15 18:34:59 <infobot> termana <~bradley@CPE-138-217-247-42.lns2.wel.bigpond.net.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 7h 55m 33s ago, saying: 'ScriptRipper: Didn't you have some sort of release you had to work on that was important, rather than try to (for no needed reason) justify yourself to us? :P'.
Apr 15 18:35:02 <lcuk> hiya woglinde :)
Apr 15 18:35:28 <woglinde> luke-jr?
Apr 15 18:35:36 <luke-jr> woglinde: ?
Apr 15 18:35:47 <Stskeeps> woglinde: there's links in the end of the thread for kernels i thin
Apr 15 18:35:49 <Stskeeps> k
Apr 15 18:35:50 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: any idea where Termana's git trees are?
Apr 15 18:35:52 <wazd1> I wonder if symbian handsets will receive all that fancy symbian ^3 stuff
Apr 15 18:36:02 <woglinde> luke-jr I fear he has none
Apr 15 18:36:16 <woglinde> luke-jr so I dont need anypatches from you right?
Apr 15 18:36:32 <dsster> I think maybe sip doesn't recognize ~ as a valid character? possible>
Apr 15 18:37:43 <woglinde> hm
Apr 15 18:37:44 <woglinde> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=604049&postcount=1
Apr 15 18:38:46 <luke-jr> woglinde: I don't do patches.
Apr 15 18:39:16 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/linux-omap/n8x0 is all my work
Apr 15 18:39:36 <woglinde> hms
Apr 15 18:39:43 <woglinde> why stskeeps write it then
Apr 15 18:39:45 <woglinde> Originally Posted by Stskeeps  View Post
Apr 15 18:39:46 <woglinde> On a silly sidenote: I had MeeGo base system running on my N810 with 2.6.33 kernel (+ Termanas, luke-jr's patches) some weeks ago.
Apr 15 18:40:00 <luke-jr> woglinde: presumably he means the diffs in my git branches
Apr 15 18:40:10 <woglinde> *g*
Apr 15 18:40:22 <Stskeeps> woglinde: i used one of termana's kernels
Apr 15 18:40:37 <Stskeeps> which was based on luke-jr's wor
Apr 15 18:40:37 <Stskeeps> k
Apr 15 18:41:02 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: Termana have a git tree?
Apr 15 18:41:03 <frals> DOH, just my luck, my operator isnt in /etc/operator_settings
Apr 15 18:41:12 <frals> could someone do me a favor and run dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM Phone.Sim.read_hplmn
Apr 15 18:41:33 <frals> and tell me what operator they are using and in what country so i can use it as test for my algo?
Apr 15 18:41:34 <lcuk> from which firmware?
Apr 15 18:41:42 <frals> should work on any
Apr 15 18:41:50 <SpeedEvil> frals: pastebinning output
Apr 15 18:41:53 <lcuk> then someone else can :) im tied up
Apr 15 18:41:55 * andrewfblack needs to focus on themes when he gets home tonight and not play video games all night
Apr 15 18:42:20 <lcuk> maemo is a video game
Apr 15 18:42:25 <woglinde> *g*
Apr 15 18:42:28 <supertramp> hola
Apr 15 18:43:10 <supertramp> guys - is there some quick way how to enable /var/log/wtmp?
Apr 15 18:43:32 <woglinde> luke-jr but with your .config I see kernel output on the display right?
Apr 15 18:43:43 <luke-jr> I think so
Apr 15 18:43:49 <lcuk> question: is there a command line way to create and configure a wifi net configuration
Apr 15 18:43:58 <lcuk> so i can shove it in MyDocs and just run it after reflashing
Apr 15 18:44:02 <Stskeeps> lcuk: gconf mayb
Apr 15 18:44:03 <Stskeeps> e
Apr 15 18:44:07 <lcuk> without mucking with full restore
Apr 15 18:44:32 <lcuk> possibly Stskeeps
Apr 15 18:44:47 <lcuk> need to look at how backup does it - ive typed net settings in so many times today
Apr 15 18:45:58 <frals> woho my algo is working \o/
Apr 15 18:46:11 <frals> now just to parse that darn file
Apr 15 18:46:24 <lcuk> heh
Apr 15 18:47:46 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i think the ash cloud is after you
Apr 15 18:48:21 <lcuk> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7592774/Volcanic-ash-cloud-spreading-towards-London-forecast.html
Apr 15 18:48:37 <lcuk> forget the london bit - it went over .dk and now its turning round to get you!
Apr 15 18:48:50 <frals> over dk hell its over .se
Apr 15 18:49:11 <Stskeeps> lcuk: if this continues, i'm pondering if i can fly on tuesday :P
Apr 15 18:49:18 <frals> all air traffic over sweden closed from 22 localtime
Apr 15 18:49:23 <lcuk> i think a lot of people are
Apr 15 18:49:28 * lcuk curses net connect
Apr 15 18:49:43 <frals> this better clear up before im going to hel or im taking the boat over :P
Apr 15 18:49:43 <woglinde> volcanic ashes wow
Apr 15 18:51:29 <lcuk> worst part, i thought iceland had a smoking ban
Apr 15 18:52:11 <SpeedEvil> Sunset should be pretty - hopefully
Apr 15 18:52:44 <Stskeeps> frals: hmm, when are you flying up?
Apr 15 18:52:55 <frals> 25th
Apr 15 18:53:03 <Stskeeps> ah
Apr 15 18:53:07 <frals> going back home the 27th
Apr 15 18:53:26 <frals> assume im gonna miss you again? ;)
Apr 15 18:53:29 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Apr 15 18:54:01 <frals> doh :<
Apr 15 18:54:11 <frals> well atleast i can ambush vdvsx this time for sure
Apr 15 18:55:44 * lcuk waits patiently
Apr 15 18:56:15 * frals distracts lcuk with bacon
Apr 15 18:56:21 <frals> what you recompiling?
Apr 15 18:56:41 * lcuk munches contentedly whilst waiting for something to finish something
Apr 15 18:56:42 <frals> ah, reflashing :P
Apr 15 18:56:48 <lcuk> i reflashed already
Apr 15 18:56:59 <lcuk> now ive configured system and doing something else
Apr 15 18:57:05 <frals> :D
Apr 15 18:58:03 <frals> btw your wlan ap's are saved at /system/osso/connectivity/IAP
Apr 15 18:58:37 <lcuk> o_O curious, ill try something in a minute then
Apr 15 18:58:38 <lcuk> thanks
Apr 15 18:58:53 * lcuk cannot stop the process thats underway
Apr 15 18:59:46 <lcuk> you are a bastard frals btw
Apr 15 18:59:52 <frals> o_O
Apr 15 19:00:02 <lcuk> i wasnt hungry till u mentioned bacon
Apr 15 19:00:05 <frals> :D
Apr 15 19:00:08 <woglinde> bacon
Apr 15 19:01:06 <lcuk> frals, "/system/osso/connectivity/IAP" is not a folder - is this gconf as sts suggested
Apr 15 19:01:16 <frals> lcuk: uh yeah, gconf
Apr 15 19:01:29 <frals> sorry for not making that clear
Apr 15 19:02:17 * lcuk is just distracted
Apr 15 19:02:27 <lcuk> i opened folder on other device and though "hold on"
Apr 15 19:10:19 <timeless_mbp>  /var/lib/gconf/....
Apr 15 19:10:28 <timeless_mbp> you can use the file system
Apr 15 19:10:35 <timeless_mbp> it's just officially wrong to do so :)
Apr 15 19:11:02 <timeless_mbp> note that w/ maemo5 the accesspoint names are no longer gconf keys
Apr 15 19:11:08 <timeless_mbp> so you kinda need to use grep
Apr 15 19:18:58 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, supposing i just have one
Apr 15 19:19:11 <lcuk> its for personal use i just need to restore access point settings very often
Apr 15 19:19:33 <_henke_> yo ppl
Apr 15 19:19:46 <lcuk> hi henke
Apr 15 19:20:29 <dmj726_n900> anyone else looked at clutter-box2d?
Apr 15 19:20:38 <woglinde> luke-jr still there?
Apr 15 19:21:13 <_henke_> anyone using fish encryption in xchat ?
Apr 15 19:21:21 <_henke_> i cant load the fish.so file
Apr 15 19:21:25 <_henke_> says it cant find it
Apr 15 19:21:40 <_henke_> but im pointing at it via gui
Apr 15 19:21:57 <_henke_> anyone have any ideeas ?
Apr 15 19:22:35 <woglinde> I dont have an aquarium
Apr 15 19:22:47 <_henke_> why not woglinde ? :-)
Apr 15 19:23:47 <_henke_> can i access the installation path of applications ?
Apr 15 19:24:11 <_henke_> coz xchat prefers that u copy the plugins to its plugin dir
Apr 15 19:24:19 <N900evil> fish.so is not an arm binary?
Apr 15 19:24:20 <lcuk> _henke_, xchat on n900?
Apr 15 19:24:30 <lcuk> because if so, the .so you have is likely not there
Apr 15 19:24:30 <_henke_> lcuk yeah it works nicely
Apr 15 19:24:44 <lcuk> because it will be built for x86 i bet
Apr 15 19:24:47 <N900evil> you cannot just load x86 binary plugins
Apr 15 19:24:53 <_henke_> ah okey
Apr 15 19:24:55 <lcuk> would be fun if you could
Apr 15 19:24:58 <_henke_> u got a point there
Apr 15 19:25:24 <N900evil> IIRC someone looked at building for arm, and it was nasty.
Apr 15 19:25:50 <_henke_> hmm really
Apr 15 19:25:55 <roland> hallo???
Apr 15 19:26:00 <_henke_> that wasnt the news i wanted :-p
Apr 15 19:26:11 <_henke_> but thanks for the heads up N900evil
Apr 15 19:26:18 <N900evil> good luck.
Apr 15 19:26:28 <roland> some germans here??
Apr 15 19:26:39 <_henke_> no
Apr 15 19:26:41 <_henke_> :-)
Apr 15 19:26:47 <woglinde> roland no
Apr 15 19:26:50 <woglinde> *g*
Apr 15 19:27:01 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: well, officially you'd use gconftool-2 or the backup app
Apr 15 19:27:06 <roland> but experts???
Apr 15 19:27:08 <luke-jr> woglinde: no
Apr 15 19:27:29 <woglinde> luke-jr I forgot the question anyway
Apr 15 19:27:48 <DocScrutinizer>  get a new kbd, your questionmark key is broken
Apr 15 19:28:04 <woglinde> *sigh* kernel crashed again
Apr 15 19:28:28 <MohammadAG> umm, any way to spoof a DNS?
Apr 15 19:28:36 <MohammadAG> aka fake it
Apr 15 19:28:38 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, thanks ill dig more next time it annoys me
Apr 15 19:29:15 <DocScrutinizer>  MohammadAG: etc/hosts?
Apr 15 19:29:32 <roland> okay. i need help with installation the sdk... can some help me plz???
Apr 15 19:29:48 <N900evil> help with what aspect?
Apr 15 19:30:19 <roland> gui installer: ..... failed: 4/9 installing sdk targets
Apr 15 19:30:26 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, not a local one
Apr 15 19:30:37 <DocScrutinizer>  next tripple-? will earn you a kick :-/
Apr 15 19:30:39 <woglinde> args
Apr 15 19:30:45 <woglinde> I tried the false kernel
Apr 15 19:31:04 <MohammadAG> basically i'm trying to spoof the DNS being replied/sent to the PS3 (which is connected via a linux box as a proxy)
Apr 15 19:31:38 <ruskie> MohammadAG, run your own DNS server
Apr 15 19:31:40 <MohammadAG> roland, what are you going to use it for anyways
Apr 15 19:31:42 <ruskie> and make it resolve that
Apr 15 19:31:45 <N900evil> install bind
Apr 15 19:31:49 <ruskie> or maradns
Apr 15 19:31:52 <ruskie> or powerdns
Apr 15 19:31:55 <ruskie> or any other dns server
Apr 15 19:32:04 <ruskie> hellp dnsmasq should do it
Apr 15 19:32:14 <MohammadAG> hmm, will try that, but i doubt it'll work
Apr 15 19:32:19 <roland> bloody beginning of creating a little app...
Apr 15 19:32:25 <MohammadAG> trying to fake sony's DNS
Apr 15 19:32:38 <MohammadAG> roland, what language?
Apr 15 19:32:40 <ruskie> I debated if I wanted a phat or a slim decided to go with a slim
Apr 15 19:32:43 <roland> german
Apr 15 19:32:58 <MohammadAG> o.o
Apr 15 19:33:00 <ruskie> so don't have this issue... though still sucks
Apr 15 19:33:01 <woglinde> hurray
Apr 15 19:33:04 <woglinde> it worked
Apr 15 19:33:05 <woglinde> okay
Apr 15 19:33:15 <woglinde> I can see the kexec menu
Apr 15 19:33:19 <MohammadAG> ruskie, well, it's not a slim/phat issue
Apr 15 19:33:21 <woglinde> okay
Apr 15 19:33:25 <MohammadAG> it's the otheros
Apr 15 19:33:31 <ruskie> MohammadAG, slim doesn't have otheros
Apr 15 19:33:32 <ruskie> :)
Apr 15 19:33:38 <MohammadAG> if you're on 3.15, you can install cfw to enable it
Apr 15 19:33:45 <MohammadAG>    ^
Apr 15 19:33:49 <woglinde> now I only need to integrate kexec on 33.1
Apr 15 19:33:54 <ruskie> MohammadAG, anyway have no wish for it
Apr 15 19:33:59 <MohammadAG> you sound like you updated though
Apr 15 19:34:04 <MohammadAG> @ ruskie
Apr 15 19:34:05 <noobmonk3y> hmmmmmm
Apr 15 19:34:11 <ruskie> MohammadAG, there are some existing DNS servers that spoof it
Apr 15 19:34:21 <johnsq> woglinde: 2.6-omap on n810?
Apr 15 19:34:23 <ruskie> MohammadAG, so you just need to set them up in the PS3 and it should work
Apr 15 19:34:36 <MohammadAG> ruskie, running linux without acceleration sucks, but I need it for homebrew (not piracy crap, against it)
Apr 15 19:35:06 <MohammadAG> ruskie, they were blocked yesterday
Apr 15 19:35:09 <roland> Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!
Apr 15 19:35:09 <roland> E: Scratchbox command 'sb-conf setup' returned error 0.
Apr 15 19:35:09 <roland> V [21:15:13 15.04.2010]: Failed to install SDK
Apr 15 19:35:16 <MohammadAG> actually, the day before
Apr 15 19:35:19 <roland> these are the logs
Apr 15 19:35:21 <MohammadAG> 13/04
Apr 15 19:35:27 <ruskie> OT here
Apr 15 19:35:34 <woglinde> johnsq unfornatly 2.6.33.1 vanilla with some patches from Termanas, luke-jr's
Apr 15 19:35:35 <MohammadAG> NOT*
Apr 15 19:35:43 <MohammadAG> :)
Apr 15 19:35:51 <ruskie> see PM ;)
Apr 15 19:35:58 <MohammadAG> roland, use the scripts, I hate the GUI
Apr 15 19:36:19 <roland> what scripts???
Apr 15 19:37:20 <johnsq> woglinde: when everything works, than it makes no difference.
Apr 15 19:37:42 <woglinde> johnsq plain vanilla has none kexec-arm stuff
Apr 15 19:38:28 <woglinde> but I will try now the .config on git
Apr 15 19:40:30 <DocScrutinizer>  roland: second warning!
Apr 15 19:40:33 <woglinde> johnsq could think is I can test the kernels without flashing
Apr 15 19:40:53 <woglinde> flashers is good in that way
Apr 15 19:40:58 <woglinde> ups flasher
Apr 15 19:41:08 <roland> warning? why?
Apr 15 19:42:42 <johnsq> woglinde: would be good, i have always trouble with my self build kernels.
Apr 15 19:42:49 <MohammadAG> I love this country
Apr 15 19:42:55 <MohammadAG> http://gizmodo.com/5518002/ipad-imports-banned-in-israel
Apr 15 19:42:58 <luke-jr> woglinde: what? nobody has vanilla remotely working afai
Apr 15 19:43:00 <luke-jr> k
Apr 15 19:43:16 <woglinde> luke-jr????
Apr 15 19:43:33 <luke-jr> woglinde: it's linux-omap + patches, not vanilla
Apr 15 19:43:41 <woglinde> yes I said this
Apr 15 19:43:55 <luke-jr> omap
Apr 15 19:43:59 <luke-jr> not vanilla
Apr 15 19:44:07 <woglinde> vanilla + patches
Apr 15 19:44:11 <luke-jr> no
Apr 15 19:44:12 <luke-jr> omap + patches
Apr 15 19:44:45 <DocScrutinizer> ~tell roland about question
Apr 15 19:45:24 <woglinde> luke-jr Termanas 33.1 patches are against vanilla
Apr 15 19:46:16 <luke-jr> woglinde: it's impossible to get the display working with vanilla...
Apr 15 19:46:32 <luke-jr> unless his diff includes all of linux-omap, which would be insane
Apr 15 19:47:47 <woglinde> luke-jr I am not lying
Apr 15 19:47:54 <woglinde> please look at his patch
Apr 15 19:48:02 <woglinde> maybee its whole linux-omap
Apr 15 19:48:17 <woglinde> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=604110&postcount=2
Apr 15 19:50:56 <dsster> oh man just got the n900 seems all im doing is updating for the past hour :(
Apr 15 19:58:19 <dsster> woot 1.3ghz stable
Apr 15 19:58:49 <BCMM_> don't cook it
Apr 15 19:58:49 <dsster> lol just kidding i wont overclock my new n900 just yet :)
Apr 15 19:58:59 <BCMM_> or yourself
Apr 15 19:59:00 <dsster> In a week or so :)
Apr 15 19:59:28 <toresbe> Overclocking the N900 seems a bit silly to me...
Apr 15 19:59:36 <dsster> it is completely silly
Apr 15 19:59:49 <dsster> this thing is a monster
Apr 15 19:59:51 <toresbe> Though I suppose it might feasibly have a positive effect on the battery
Apr 15 20:00:19 <toresbe> if power consumption increases slower than computing speed, that is
Apr 15 20:00:22 <dsster> that's undeclocking
Apr 15 20:00:31 <toresbe> No, underclocking hurts battery life
Apr 15 20:01:03 <dsster> Because it takes more cycles to go to a lower frequency?
Apr 15 20:01:20 <dsster> I've read about that just a few days ago, makes sense i guess
Apr 15 20:01:34 <toresbe> no -- because time spent working at a slower frequency is still taxing the battery
Apr 15 20:01:47 <toresbe> much better to get the task out of the way quickly so the CPU can suspend nearly completely
Apr 15 20:02:05 <dsster> oh, yeah makes sense too
Apr 15 20:02:25 <toresbe> http://mjg59.livejournal.com/88608.html
Apr 15 20:04:00 <aep> btw, any idea why my n900 won't go lower then C1? complete fresh flashed
Apr 15 20:09:35 <toresbe> aep: afaik it might just be the CPU that doesn't go into a less responsive state
Apr 15 20:09:46 <aep> well it did when it was new
Apr 15 20:10:18 <toresbe> hmh.
Apr 15 20:15:23 <kamui> that sounds silly
Apr 15 20:16:40 <SpeedEvil> aep: some things stop it
Apr 15 20:17:02 <SpeedEvil> aep: try as a first cut turning off wifi, and killing all apps but an xterm
Apr 15 20:19:10 <DocScrutinizer>  poertop
Apr 15 20:19:20 <DocScrutinizer>  powertop even
Apr 15 20:23:09 <DocScrutinizer>  dsster: toresbe: the whole topic is to be found when googling for 'run for idle', and SmartReflex is supposed to take care about optimizing to the sweetspot between long active periods with low clockfreq and short acticity bursts at high performance which take unproportionally more energy per cpu op
Apr 15 20:24:06 <DocScrutinizer>  together with cpufrq-governour and other sw and probably hw bits
Apr 15 20:30:08 <t-tan> a kernel with low voltage and 500-850MHZ gives me the best battery performance
Apr 15 20:30:45 <t-tan> the repository queue is broken again...
Apr 15 20:33:06 <Shapeshifter> t-tan: you got some graphs to support that?
Apr 15 20:33:54 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Apr 15 20:34:14 <GAN900> Hehe
Apr 15 20:34:23 <t-tan> Shapeshifter: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=609777&postcount=2686
Apr 15 20:34:32 <Shapeshifter> I heard SmartReflex is broken. Is it, and how could this be fixed?
Apr 15 20:34:45 <DocScrutinizer> BS
Apr 15 20:35:05 <javispedro> yeah, "idle" time?
Apr 15 20:35:45 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: Debug the causes for it not working.
Apr 15 20:35:50 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: Fix them.
Apr 15 20:35:51 <Shapeshifter> t-tan: well. Could you do a more sane "idle" test with like, say, 2G always on, always online in some 3 jabber accounts with regular email checking?
Apr 15 20:36:04 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: so it is broken?
Apr 15 20:36:12 <aep> SpeedEvil: i did try all of this. there is nothing waking it up. it just refuses to go below C1.
Apr 15 20:36:15 <t-tan> Shapeshifter: pay TI to fix it.
Apr 15 20:36:17 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: Some devices are unstable.
Apr 15 20:36:25 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: ahh, okay.
Apr 15 20:36:58 <aep> unfortunately i lost the powertop binary for maemo :/
Apr 15 20:37:09 <t-tan> Shapeshifter: please try it yourself. the are zillions of scenarios and every user has a different usage pattern. find your optimum
Apr 15 20:37:13 <SpeedEvil> t-tan: I would personally be very cautious of believing what batterygraph is saying.
Apr 15 20:37:22 <SpeedEvil> t-tan: Especially extrapolations like that.
Apr 15 20:37:23 <t-tan> s/the/there/
Apr 15 20:37:23 <infobot> t-tan meant: Shapeshifter: please try it yourself. there are zillions of scenarios and every user has a different usage pattern. find your optimum
Apr 15 20:37:54 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK has a tool that reads out the instantaneous current average over the last 5 seconds.
Apr 15 20:38:05 <SpeedEvil> This is - IME - a much more consistent tool.
Apr 15 20:38:19 <javispedro> did someone already beat my 95h idle record?
Apr 15 20:38:20 <t-tan> if what else should I trust? if all battery parameters tell me that the battery is hardly discharging...
Apr 15 20:38:35 <MohammadAG> IME?
Apr 15 20:38:44 <SpeedEvil> Or rather - the cumulative average over the 5 second period
Apr 15 20:38:51 <SpeedEvil> In my Experience.
Apr 15 20:38:58 <t-tan> where is that tool?
Apr 15 20:39:19 * SpeedEvil pings ShadowJK.
Apr 15 20:40:57 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: take that: 26h active
Apr 15 20:41:01 <t-tan> javispedro: you slept for 95h? ;-D
Apr 15 20:41:15 <javispedro> active doing what? :P
Apr 15 20:41:48 <SpeedEvil> I've had ~30 hours or so on wifi + ssh +xchat
Apr 15 20:42:20 <javispedro> t-tan: no, it was on Nokia Care for nearly a month and since I had all my data on the N810 and was lazy to pass it over I kept using the n810.
Apr 15 20:42:27 <SpeedEvil> It gets down to maybe a fifth of that in the most deepest sleep with wifi on but nothing running - xchat adds a fair amount
Apr 15 20:43:59 <t-tan> we need some proper automatized battery benchmarks. BTW, LCD consumes most of the energy
Apr 15 20:44:58 <DocScrutinizer> only on 100%
Apr 15 20:45:06 <frals> javispedro: idle as in doing nothing and just being left alone? pretty sure i have that beat
Apr 15 20:45:29 <DocScrutinizer> of my 26h, the LCD was on ~50%, though at very low brightness
Apr 15 20:46:13 <javispedro> frals: idle with wi-fi, skype, 30 minute modest and on mostly 1-2 hours max.
Apr 15 20:46:27 <frals> ah, negative on that :p
Apr 15 20:46:46 <javispedro> skype was the worst offender IMO.
Apr 15 20:46:56 <frals> forgot my dev device was on when i left, got back 4 days later and it was still on, but no wifi active during that time
Apr 15 20:46:57 <javispedro> I should repeat that some day without skype.
Apr 15 20:48:23 <Shapeshifter> sersiously, I don't know what you're doing with your devices. The only way of getting to the end of the day without an empty battery is by not using the device. I get up in the morning at like 10:00 and go online on 4 jabber accounts. I go out of the house connecting to 2G and browsing the web at crawling speeds for half an hour. If I'd use 3.5G for half an hour, that would cost me at least like 10% battery. I occasionally check my ...
Apr 15 20:48:29 <Shapeshifter> ... mail during the day or send a few IMs and again browse the web on the way back. At 18:00, I have 25% left if everything worked well.
Apr 15 20:48:49 <javispedro> yes, I am talking about not using.
Apr 15 20:48:52 <javispedro> it.
Apr 15 20:49:20 <javispedro> with 100% CPU and screen on (snes) I get top 3 hours and a bit
Apr 15 20:49:21 <Shapeshifter> the battery life is utter crap on the n900. I'd use it soo much more if the battery would last. Yeah ok I'll get another battery but seriously, all the people saying they're getting 30h out of it "having the screen on 50% of the time"..... you're not really using it, are you.
Apr 15 20:49:45 <Shapeshifter> javispedro: yeah same here with VGBA.
Apr 15 20:50:03 <DocScrutinizer> Battery endurance:: Battery  BL-5J // Capacity (mAh) 1320 //  Talk time Up to 9 h (GSM) Up to 5 h (WCDMA)  //  Stand-by  Up to 10 days GSM  Up to 10 days WCDMA
Apr 15 20:50:23 <frals> Shapeshifter: im not using any IM accounts, guess that why mine lasts me 2 days when "using" it
Apr 15 20:50:24 <Shapeshifter> 9h talk time >.>
Apr 15 20:50:34 <javispedro> I can believe 9h talk time
Apr 15 20:50:41 <Shapeshifter> frals: maybe, as it will be almost completely idle when you're not having the screen open
Apr 15 20:50:45 <frals> ie browsing, always synced with mfe on day time
Apr 15 20:50:58 <Shapeshifter> frals: 3G?
Apr 15 20:51:11 <frals> yeah
Apr 15 20:51:13 <frals> 3/3.5
Apr 15 20:51:25 <N900evil> t-tan: lcd doesn't use that much - backlight at high brightness is lots more
Apr 15 20:51:31 <Shapeshifter> frals: you're not using it... ^^
Apr 15 20:51:31 <Gh0sty> any app which switches automatically between 2g and 3g
Apr 15 20:51:35 <frals> or well, the second evening i plug it in
Apr 15 20:51:42 <Gh0sty> or any app which switches off automatically wifi when not used?
Apr 15 20:51:51 <frals> Shapeshifter: i only use it while on the move, when im stationary i got my laptop ;)
Apr 15 20:52:07 <t-tan> N900evil: I meant the backlight
Apr 15 20:52:17 <Shapeshifter> frals: sure. but if I enable 3G battery life drops significantly. I'm practially stuck with 2G just because of battery life
Apr 15 20:52:22 <javispedro> Shapeshifter: ditch GSM and use Wi-Fi, and your browsing figures will be in half-days instead of hours.
Apr 15 20:52:42 <frals> Shapeshifter: :<
Apr 15 20:53:30 * noobmonk3y is backing up frals and fmms again............ in tmo...... i just dont get why other people can't read........
Apr 15 20:53:31 * javispedro can easily get 6-7 hours of browsing Wi-fi out of it, which is around n8x0 figures. First test I did... counting number of boring lectures ;P
Apr 15 20:53:40 <Shapeshifter> javispedro: at the university I only have wifi with VPN, and for some reason that is extremely unstable on the n900, unusable really. I connect to wlan, then use vpnc. I can browse for 2 minutes, then the wlan loses connection and then reconnects, but then I need to kill vpnc and rerun it.
Apr 15 20:53:51 <frals> noobmonk3y: cheers - i cant be bothered much anymore
Apr 15 20:53:59 <noobmonk3y> hehe, with them, not fmms i hope ;)
Apr 15 20:54:00 <t-tan> current with screen locked ca. 360, with 4/5: 1000, with 5/5: 1350
Apr 15 20:54:15 <frals> noobmonk3y: yes, with users, fmms i still have some things to be fixed in
Apr 15 20:54:18 <Shapeshifter> if wlan + vpn was stable, it would be another story, but it's unusable.
Apr 15 20:54:21 <noobmonk3y> hehe ;)
Apr 15 20:54:23 <frals> *glances at teh ever-growing to do list*
Apr 15 20:54:24 <Shapeshifter> rockstable on my laptop btw.
Apr 15 20:54:31 <Shapeshifter> using vpnc as well.
Apr 15 20:54:41 <heffer> apt-get autoremove would remove kernel-maemo and kernel-modules-maemo. does this sound like a good idea?
Apr 15 20:55:00 <_henke_> heffer no :-)
Apr 15 20:55:06 <t-tan> heffer: if you have kernel-power-flasher installed, it's fine
Apr 15 20:55:13 * DocScrutinizer gets really bored by all this "eeew my 600MHz CPU eats more power than my wristwatch! And why can't I TX data over GSM @ 2W TX power - with a battery load of not more than 200mW??" whining
Apr 15 20:55:13 <heffer> i knew it :)
Apr 15 20:55:24 <heffer> i have kernel-flasher-maemo
Apr 15 20:55:33 <heffer> but i purged that because i don't use it anymore
Apr 15 20:55:38 <heffer> is it okay to do so?
Apr 15 20:55:49 * noobmonk3y looks at healthcheck...oh how i like the simple life ;)
Apr 15 20:55:52 <javispedro> Shapeshifter: so, get your uni to change. I did that on mine when they were using expired certificates 5 years ago...
Apr 15 20:56:11 <t-tan> did you reflash the stock kernel?
Apr 15 20:56:18 * lcuk swaps with noobmonk3y for a day
Apr 15 20:56:19 <heffer> yes i did
Apr 15 20:56:28 * lcuk has been checking health of things all day
Apr 15 20:56:35 <Shapeshifter> javispedro: sorry? It _does_ work flawlessly on my linux lap top with the same AP and same distance. just the n900 loses the connection after 2 minutes.
Apr 15 20:56:36 <heffer> as it is described in the package description
Apr 15 20:56:47 <t-tan> check with uname -a
Apr 15 20:56:53 <heffer> my uname -a is: Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 armv7l unknown
Apr 15 20:57:05 <t-tan> ok, remove it
Apr 15 20:57:10 <heffer> great. thanks
Apr 15 20:57:22 * lcuk kicks mail client on ubumtu
Apr 15 20:58:00 <javispedro> Shapeshifter: you're talking with a person that: a) When the Palm T|X didn't work with his uni's certificates he fixed his uni b) When the N810 didn't work with his Uni's PAP he fixed the N8x0 in what later took Nokia a year and a half (and still counting) to fix it.
Apr 15 20:58:19 <javispedro> Wi-Fi _is_ this thing.
Apr 15 20:58:28 <heffer> thanks for your help guys. it's much appreciated!
Apr 15 20:58:48 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Apr 15 20:58:59 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: but really, I don't think I'm expecting too much of a mobile device. 2h of 3G surfing, all day IM online and regular mail checking *should* be possible. If this, by design, is impossible, they pretty much failed at reaching a sane target. For all I care they should have stuck a fatter battery in it. clearly. ;)
Apr 15 20:59:15 * frals kicks lcuks ubumty
Apr 15 20:59:19 * frals kicks lcuks ubumtu*
Apr 15 20:59:49 * javispedro passes a fedora livecd to lcuk
Apr 15 20:59:52 * lcuk flashes frals machines
Apr 15 21:00:18 * frals flashes lcuk's microSD
Apr 15 21:00:44 * lcuk covers up his microsd
Apr 15 21:01:21 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: you sound like my silly bosses sometimes - the device needs OLEDs! What? no idea where - oh there's no such thing like single OLEDs -shit!
Apr 15 21:01:53 <lcuk> any wiki editors handy, or people who could cut and paste some stuff into a wiki page
Apr 15 21:02:01 * javispedro would run out of money BEFORE running out of battery while browsing using 3g
Apr 15 21:02:11 <lcuk> want all pictures from a thread making into a wiki page
Apr 15 21:02:33 <javispedro> you could make the page first then leave formatting for latter
Apr 15 21:02:35 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=612433&postcount=229
Apr 15 21:02:35 <javispedro> *later
Apr 15 21:02:37 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: mh?
Apr 15 21:02:52 <javispedro> ah.
Apr 15 21:02:54 <lcuk> yes javis but that takes concentration i havent got
Apr 15 21:03:07 <lcuk> mind is over there <<<<<<<< watching updates and stuff
Apr 15 21:03:29 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: short version: World peace and intergalactical travels *should* be possible!
Apr 15 21:04:07 <woglinde_> hm when I define a static struct in .c file how can I use the struct in another file
Apr 15 21:04:12 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: are you saying my expectations are unreasonable for a "mobile computer"?
Apr 15 21:04:19 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Apr 15 21:04:25 * SpeedEvil1 sighs at stupid broken forums.
Apr 15 21:04:45 <SpeedEvil1> Is there a way to get all the posts in a thread on one page?
Apr 15 21:04:48 <Shapeshifter> :(
Apr 15 21:05:01 <lcuk> woglinde_, you define the struct in a header
Apr 15 21:05:09 <lcuk> and declare the instance of that struct to be static
Apr 15 21:05:14 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil1, settings, but you'll never get all posts
Apr 15 21:05:28 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: see, 'all day IM online" tends to be no difference to "all day surfing over 3G"
Apr 15 21:05:32 <javispedro> then a copy would be included on every file
Apr 15 21:05:33 <lcuk> your method of "static struct { ... } blah;"   is afaik a private struct
Apr 15 21:05:42 <lcuk> no javispedro thats not  what i said
Apr 15 21:05:46 <lcuk> a struct takes no memory
Apr 15 21:05:48 <lcuk> is not data
Apr 15 21:05:54 <lcuk> its a definition
Apr 15 21:06:01 <woglinde_> lcuk hm I wonder why it worked in earlier kernel
Apr 15 21:06:07 <lcuk> it works
Apr 15 21:06:13 <lcuk> but afaik you cant share the definition for it
Apr 15 21:06:13 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: mh I guess you're right.
Apr 15 21:06:13 <noobmonk3y> lol lcuk
Apr 15 21:06:15 <javispedro> a definition cannot be static ...
Apr 15 21:06:27 <noobmonk3y> really wanna swap with me for a day, i had a meeting from 9am - 5pm today :|
Apr 15 21:06:29 <lcuk> the scope breaks it
Apr 15 21:06:36 <noobmonk3y> (whilst ircing on the n900 at times)
Apr 15 21:06:38 <lcuk> static [variable];
Apr 15 21:06:48 <lcuk> where [variable] == privately declared struct
Apr 15 21:07:08 <lcuk> im still working noobmonk3y go figure
Apr 15 21:07:10 <frals> noobmonk3y: i was trying to learn how cachememories works from 12-14 then i gave up and went home
Apr 15 21:07:11 * SpeedEvil1 ponders using http://new.music.yahoo.com/will-smith/tracks/summertime--2041029 as a teaching aid.
Apr 15 21:07:14 <noobmonk3y> lol lcuk
Apr 15 21:07:28 <noobmonk3y> frals, - you lost me at "learn"
Apr 15 21:07:33 <frals> :D
Apr 15 21:07:36 <noobmonk3y> :P
Apr 15 21:08:32 <Shapeshifter> http://www.diginfo.tv/2009/11/12/09-0337-r-en.php likes this idea.
Apr 15 21:09:01 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: if you want better battery endurance, you don't want a more bulky device - rather you want smarter apps with better power conserving design
Apr 15 21:09:26 <heffer> hoho my N900 has better speakers than my ThinkPad X200
Apr 15 21:09:37 <heffer> in fact, the X200 even has only one speaker :)
Apr 15 21:09:59 <javispedro> Shapeshifter: not impressed. 50ml and only two weeks standby for a feature phone?
Apr 15 21:10:05 <N900evil> and sometimes you can't do things smarter - as the outside world doesn"t cooperate
Apr 15 21:10:24 <Shapeshifter> javispedro: the fact that recharing it takes a few seconds is interesting.
Apr 15 21:10:29 <pronto> does the n900 still have that issue with wifi + bluetooth?
Apr 15 21:10:39 <SpeedEvil1> For example - you would ideally want to be able to group all IM activity so it only hit in batches every minute.
Apr 15 21:10:59 <SpeedEvil1> And wifi powersaving only works with routers that support it
Apr 15 21:11:01 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil1: bouncer/proxy then
Apr 15 21:11:12 <SpeedEvil1> DocScrutinizer: yes - that's a partial answer
Apr 15 21:11:26 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: that's the apple approach afaiu (single server for notifications)
Apr 15 21:11:41 <DocScrutinizer> yup, think so
Apr 15 21:12:11 <javispedro> aha, a phone producing CO2.
Apr 15 21:12:16 <SpeedEvil1> you really want it deeper into the system than that.
Apr 15 21:12:18 <SpeedEvil1> If you can.
Apr 15 21:12:42 <DocScrutinizer> on N900 you can
Apr 15 21:12:46 <DocScrutinizer> mostly
Apr 15 21:13:05 <SpeedEvil> For example, applications batching timers so that if the app doesn't care about exact value of timer, several apps timers are fired at once.
Apr 15 21:13:53 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: listen!!
Apr 15 21:14:08 <javispedro> I'm pretty sure there's a framework for that already
Apr 15 21:14:15 <javispedro> in fact there's at the second granularity
Apr 15 21:14:22 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: I'm listening
Apr 15 21:15:34 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: timers sounds like your favourite pet recently
Apr 15 21:15:44 <javispedro> but yeah, second granularity is too high these days. apps should be grouped at minutes, etc.
Apr 15 21:15:57 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: ;)
Apr 15 21:16:23 <woglinde_> args
Apr 15 21:16:28 <woglinde_> this seems a sed error
Apr 15 21:16:57 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: see now why I pushed for an 'API', even a simple cmdline API
Apr 15 21:19:00 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: well in my case it would just be interesting to get telepathy to batch/burst the connection.
Apr 15 21:19:52 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: implement 3 additional parameters for time? absolute skew in millisec, freq relative error for periodic events, max jitter
Apr 15 21:20:49 <N900evil> nanosec
Apr 15 21:21:17 <SpeedEvil> probably microsec actually
Apr 15 21:21:34 <DocScrutinizer> k, us is fine
Apr 15 21:21:36 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: heh. I just asked in telepathy. the guy said that the connect independently (jabber accounts), but also:
Apr 15 21:21:39 <Shapeshifter> 23:20 <            smcv > Shapeshifter: the N900 has some cleverness to have all the Jabber connections wake the device up at the  same time, but I think that's mostly in the kernel, i.e. not our problem :-)
Apr 15 21:22:35 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: anyway I'm talking bout alarmed
Apr 15 21:23:51 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: yeah I could do that.
Apr 15 21:25:42 <woglinde_> *sigh*
Apr 15 21:25:48 <woglinde_> this cost me 2 hours
Apr 15 21:25:51 <woglinde_> to understand
Apr 15 21:26:13 <woglinde_> but now fixed
Apr 15 21:26:15 * lcuk gets woglinde_ a coffee
Apr 15 21:26:28 <woglinde_> but the patch got an ack
Apr 15 21:26:41 <woglinde_> the patch who breaked it
Apr 15 21:26:55 <woglinde_> linux-omap
Apr 15 21:26:57 <woglinde_> f778a12dd33200513596a0d4d3ba4d5f09e79c09
Apr 15 21:27:42 <javispedro> I see the static struct _declaration_ there.
Apr 15 21:28:00 <woglinde_> hm
Apr 15 21:28:06 <woglinde_> kernel seems not to boot
Apr 15 21:28:27 <woglinde_> -	rfbi.dss_ick = clk_get(rfbi.fbdev->dev, "ick");
Apr 15 21:28:28 <woglinde_> +	rfbi.dss_ick = clk_get(&dispc.fbdev->dssdev->dev, "ick");
Apr 15 21:28:43 <woglinde_> dispc is only defined in dispc.c
Apr 15 21:30:13 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: plus a parameter --system and a checkbox "[ ] Show system events", so you can by default hide away system level timer events from user/GUI
Apr 15 21:31:13 <woglinde_> hm hm so I have to backport kexec stuff to 33.1
Apr 15 21:33:18 <woglinde_> oh is in there
Apr 15 21:33:19 <woglinde_> okay
Apr 15 21:33:42 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: the part of yesterday's twitter where it says"Palm came up with a device using Nokia's maemo code, before Nokia was ready to rollout", that gave a decent laugh
Apr 15 21:33:48 * DocScrutinizer bbl
Apr 15 21:34:18 <GAN900> Yeah
Apr 15 21:36:12 * Jaffa *assumes* that's talking about upstream patches rather than libhildon or something
Apr 15 21:40:46 <GAN900> kernel, primarily
Apr 15 21:40:57 <GAN900> and the comment was intended to be humorous
Apr 15 21:41:45 <GAN900> and an example of one of the things you have to cope with working with open source
Apr 15 21:42:26 <wazd> any maemo.org website gurus in here? :)
Apr 15 21:42:31 <javispedro> they're also using gst-openmax, etc.
Apr 15 21:42:46 <GAN900> BlueZ
Apr 15 21:43:13 <noobmonk3y> wb MohammadAG
Apr 15 21:43:25 <MohammadAG> ty o.O
Apr 15 21:46:16 * javispedro now reads that they tried to bring GAN to the dark side by giving him a free nexus one
Apr 15 21:46:24 <GAN900> Didn't work!
Apr 15 21:46:48 <javispedro> amateurs.
Apr 15 21:46:54 <GAN900> I haven't stuck my SIM in it, but I haven't been impressed poking around so far.
Apr 15 21:47:14 <GAN900> Too bad Nokia didn't announce free N900s at Ari's talk. . . .
Apr 15 21:47:33 <javispedro> he.
Apr 15 21:48:04 <javispedro> They should. Free Droids given to potential MeeGo-developers is never a good thing :)
Apr 15 21:48:21 <GAN900> Yeah
Apr 15 21:48:25 <GAN900> Lotta N900s here
Apr 15 21:48:36 <GAN900> More Nexus Ones today. ;)
Apr 15 21:48:49 <javispedro> see, the dark side won already.
Apr 15 21:49:04 <SpeedEvil> mass blend!
Apr 15 21:49:33 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, yeah, that's what I said yesterday.
Apr 15 21:49:42 <SpeedEvil> oh.
Apr 15 21:49:50 * SpeedEvil wasn't paying close attention.
Apr 15 21:49:57 * javispedro starts looking for cheap android devices in preparation for the soon massive "switch"
Apr 15 21:51:08 <javispedro> http://www.lainterfaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/alienware-concepto-celular-android.jpg first hit here when googling "cheap android phone" :)
Apr 15 21:52:00 <Gadgetoid_mbp> javispedro:  hahahahaha
Apr 15 21:52:07 <Gadgetoid_mbp> Alienware gear looks horrendous
Apr 15 21:52:35 <SpeedEvil> It's Kosh!
Apr 15 21:52:37 <SpeedEvil> In a phone!
Apr 15 21:52:55 <javispedro> did I see an angel fleeing out of it?
Apr 15 21:54:01 <Gadgetoid_mbp> I really need to watch bab 5
Apr 15 21:57:36 <crazyhorses> whats up? talking through maemo on wifi using irssi
Apr 15 21:57:51 <crazyhorses> the keyboard is great
Apr 15 21:58:00 <wazd> http://img.gsmarena.com/vv/pics/motorola/motorola-aura-2.jpg
Apr 15 21:58:08 <wazd> that's the phone
Apr 15 21:58:30 <javispedro> "the" phone?
Apr 15 21:58:47 <crazyhorses> n900 :)
Apr 15 21:59:01 <wazd> javispedro: yeah :)
Apr 15 21:59:08 <SpeedEvil> crazyhorses: I'm up to 28wpm or so, which surprised me
Apr 15 21:59:23 <crazyhorses> wow thats impressive
Apr 15 22:00:25 <wazd> javispedro: actually price/awesomness ratio of this thing is outstanding :)
Apr 15 22:00:45 <crazyhorses> I'm still getting used to some keys
Apr 15 22:00:47 <javispedro> ah well, I don't like the form factor.
Apr 15 22:00:53 <acidjazz> when can i put meego on n900
Apr 15 22:01:48 <wazd> acidjazz: yeah
Apr 15 22:01:57 <acidjazz> http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/15/nokia-and-intel-give-meego-1-0-its-first-live-performance-video/
Apr 15 22:02:21 <MohammadAG> acidjazz, not very soon
Apr 15 22:02:23 <MohammadAG> if ever
Apr 15 22:02:30 <acidjazz> ok mr negative
Apr 15 22:02:50 <MohammadAG> ...
Apr 15 22:03:06 * MohammadAG calls DocScrutinizer and asks for another autokicker :P
Apr 15 22:04:27 <SpeedEvil> crazyhorses: my laptop broke, so I was using it as my main IM and other device for a weekish
Apr 15 22:05:40 <lardman> evening chaps
Apr 15 22:06:03 <wazd> acidjazz: you'd be able to install MeeGo on n900 in 2 hours. Faithfully yours, Mr. Postitve.
Apr 15 22:06:14 <wazd> lardman: heya
Apr 15 22:06:30 <lardman> reading about the donation stuff, I've got to say I'd like an updated HAM with descriptions, rating abilities and a donation button myself
Apr 15 22:06:34 <lardman> hey wazd
Apr 15 22:06:50 <wazd> lardman: ironically
Apr 15 22:06:59 <wazd> lardman: http://i021.radikal.ru/1004/eb/85a8bebe5f82.png
Apr 15 22:07:12 <javispedro> aha!
Apr 15 22:07:19 <javispedro> they're going to syndicate babylon just now.
Apr 15 22:07:26 <javispedro> *bab 5
Apr 15 22:07:35 <javispedro> (so, speaking of the devil...)
Apr 15 22:07:51 <javispedro> evening lardman
Apr 15 22:07:58 <lardman> wazd: looks interesting
Apr 15 22:08:02 <lardman> hey javispedro
Apr 15 22:08:04 <crazyhorses> what's that app they use to show cpu clock, load, etc?
Apr 15 22:08:13 <javispedro> conky?
Apr 15 22:08:47 <javispedro> lardman: saw reply to dsp mp3 post?
Apr 15 22:09:15 <wazd> lardman: it's Extras Client for Maemo from Daniel Wilms
Apr 15 22:09:28 <lardman> javispedro: yes, Felipe has, as ever, given the pointers needed
Apr 15 22:09:42 <javispedro> :nod: :)
Apr 15 22:09:47 <lardman> wazd: oh, I tried installing that a while back and it wouldn't work
Apr 15 22:10:04 <lardman> javispedro: too busy atm, but I may take another stab at some DSP stuff further into the summer
Apr 15 22:10:12 <javispedro> ah, the summer.
Apr 15 22:10:16 <javispedro> so many projects :)
Apr 15 22:10:19 <javispedro> and still too far.
Apr 15 22:10:25 <wazd> lardman: well, I can't do even that :D
Apr 15 22:10:28 <lardman> further!? and I mad, supposed to snow next week ;)
Apr 15 22:10:43 <lardman> wazd: no device?
Apr 15 22:10:52 <wazd> lardman: sort of
Apr 15 22:11:17 <lardman> OC'd and burst into flames...?
Apr 15 22:11:20 <lardman> :)
Apr 15 22:12:12 <wazd> lardman: hehe, no, just no device :D
Apr 15 22:12:25 <wazd> lardman: overclocked price tag in here :D
Apr 15 22:12:27 <GAN900> X-Fade, Dawn and Randy are looking at the mailserver.
Apr 15 22:12:44 <lardman> wazd: ah, sorry to hear that
Apr 15 22:13:28 <lardman> hey GAN900
Apr 15 22:17:07 <GAN900> Hey, lardman
Apr 15 22:17:17 <woglinde_> hm someone knows the cmdline for the n8x0 diablo kernels?
Apr 15 22:17:26 <wazd> lardman: well, that's a pathetic developing obstacle for me, so nothing to be sorry for :)
Apr 15 22:17:40 <crazyhorses> what is the most lightweight ftp(pref. sftp) client?
Apr 15 22:18:29 <lcuk> telnet
Apr 15 22:18:30 <lardman> openssh command line client...?
Apr 15 22:18:43 <lardman> lcuk: damn foo' ;)
Apr 15 22:18:47 <lcuk> but working out the primes is a bit of a bitch manually
Apr 15 22:18:50 <lardman> and hi :)
Apr 15 22:18:54 <lcuk> \o
Apr 15 22:19:23 <crazyhorses> gui client plz
Apr 15 22:19:48 <lardman> no idea then, sorry
Apr 15 22:19:56 <frals> fileparser done, all of... 5 lines of code
Apr 15 22:20:00 * frals likes when its that easy
Apr 15 22:20:11 <lardman> actually what are you talking about on an N900, Windows, Linux, etc?#
Apr 15 22:20:12 <lcuk> those 5 lines are 499999999999 characters each tho
Apr 15 22:20:19 <frals> scch lcuk ;)
Apr 15 22:20:23 <lardman> :)
Apr 15 22:20:25 <crazyhorses> n900
Apr 15 22:20:27 <FIQ> why did my program manager just force opened?
Apr 15 22:20:50 <lardman> crazyhorses: no idea then, try a search in HAM perhaps
Apr 15 22:20:51 <frals> now i just need to do a ui prototype and have some ui/ux tear it apart and make it make sense for users
Apr 15 22:21:02 <FIQ> did i press on a "install (program) button by mistake, does it opens then?
Apr 15 22:21:56 <FIQ> nvm
Apr 15 22:22:08 <lcuk> frals, auto config for fmms?
Apr 15 22:22:08 <SpeedEvil> frals: Have the UI random for each user, and then tweak it via a genetic algorithm from people that don't uninstall immediately.
Apr 15 22:22:18 <frals> lcuk: yeah
Apr 15 22:22:56 <lcuk> good good
Apr 15 22:23:15 <lcuk> i like the genetic algorithm aspect
Apr 15 22:23:24 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, thats a nice idea
Apr 15 22:23:37 <crazyhorses> strange scrolling isn't workimg
Apr 15 22:23:47 <SpeedEvil> crazyhorses: ?
Apr 15 22:24:00 <crazyhorses> irssi on n900
Apr 15 22:24:12 <frals> SpeedEvil: sounds pretty good, gonna go for it!
Apr 15 22:24:12 <SpeedEvil> how are you trying to scroll?
Apr 15 22:24:16 <SpeedEvil> :)
Apr 15 22:24:19 <crazyhorses> usually ctrl + p/n
Apr 15 22:24:39 <SpeedEvil> crazyhorses: it's possibly not bound?
Apr 15 22:25:21 <crazyhorses> different binds.. it,s changing channels
Apr 15 22:25:51 * lardman grumbles that there are always so many unread posts on TMO
Apr 15 22:26:07 <lcuk> lardman, just use vaispy.php
Apr 15 22:26:15 <lardman> ?
Apr 15 22:26:18 <lcuk> and if its gone from scrollback its gone
Apr 15 22:26:29 <lardman> ah ok
Apr 15 22:26:32 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/vaispy.php
Apr 15 22:27:01 <lardman> bloody hell, they just keep coming!
Apr 15 22:27:40 <lcuk> lol lardman
Apr 15 22:27:44 <lcuk> its like irc
Apr 15 22:27:48 <lcuk> but it scrolls the wrong way ;)
Apr 15 22:28:01 <lardman> yeah but with 1000 conversations going on!
Apr 15 22:28:06 <javispedro> and it scrolls too fast and with muuuch longer posts
Apr 15 22:28:22 <frals> lcuk: actually using that page is insane!
Apr 15 22:28:45 <javispedro> aha, we overloaded tmo
Apr 15 22:28:49 <javispedro> I stopped getting updates...
Apr 15 22:28:53 <frals> same here lol
Apr 15 22:29:10 <lcuk> i just flick to it
Apr 15 22:29:22 <lcuk> glance and flick away i know it moves but its rare i see it
Apr 15 22:29:24 <lardman> lol http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50089
Apr 15 22:29:29 * javispedro thinks lcuk is too used to twitter
Apr 15 22:29:53 <lcuk> twitter is awful
Apr 15 22:30:02 <lcuk> i hate that "700 new twits"
Apr 15 22:30:03 <javispedro> well said.
Apr 15 22:30:06 <lcuk> just show me the damn things
Apr 15 22:30:13 <frals> lcuk only dislikes twitter because everyone is calling him insane on there
Apr 15 22:30:22 <lcuk> they stopped that
Apr 15 22:30:26 <lardman> I don't use it, drives me mad
Apr 15 22:30:46 <lcuk> its ok for some uses
Apr 15 22:30:53 <frals> i mostly use it to advertise new fmms stuff
Apr 15 22:31:04 <FIQ> wasn't N900 planned this week?
Apr 15 22:31:08 <FIQ> eh
Apr 15 22:31:09 <FIQ> oh
Apr 15 22:31:10 <FIQ> lol
Apr 15 22:31:16 <javispedro> yes, I got one!
Apr 15 22:31:16 <FIQ> i mean PR1.2
Apr 15 22:31:31 <lardman> oh, I thought we had a 1 year lag on those comments ;)
Apr 15 22:31:45 <javispedro> 1 year already??
Apr 15 22:31:50 <javispedro> damn, need new gadget to play with.
Apr 15 22:31:51 <zappa> hey guys can i get some feedback on design or http://wiki.maemo.org/QtRuby .  I plan to add essentially lesson 2 this weekend.  I've never done a document in wiki format and am wondering what i should do differently
Apr 15 22:32:04 <lardman> javispedro: getting close I reckon
Apr 15 22:33:08 <javispedro> zappa: well you already used all of the mediawiki features I know =)
Apr 15 22:33:14 <frals> hmm, i wonder which component owns /etc/operator_settings
Apr 15 22:33:30 <frals> is there an easy way to find out which package installs a given file?
Apr 15 22:33:39 <javispedro> "operator-wizard-settings" is the package
Apr 15 22:33:46 <javispedro> and "dpkg -S /filename"
Apr 15 22:33:58 <frals> ty!
Apr 15 22:34:06 <zappa> javispedro:  i had no idea what i was doing.  I looked at the code for other wikis to get a semi clue.
Apr 15 22:34:34 * noobmonk3y prods lcuk
Apr 15 22:35:00 * frals prods noobmonk3y
Apr 15 22:35:04 * noobmonk3y giggles
Apr 15 22:35:06 <noobmonk3y> right
Apr 15 22:35:07 <noobmonk3y> night alls
Apr 15 22:35:11 <frals> nn
Apr 15 22:35:22 <noobmonk3y> too much giggling makes me tired....... :P
Apr 15 22:35:24 <lcuk> nn noobmonk3y
Apr 15 22:35:34 <noobmonk3y> :D lcuk - back to work :P
Apr 15 22:35:36 <lcuk> you stopped peeing pants now?
Apr 15 22:35:43 <lcuk> make sure you go toilet before bed
Apr 15 22:35:49 <noobmonk3y> lcuk,  only when i remember not to drink too much ;)
Apr 15 22:36:04 <MohammadAG> lol
Apr 15 22:36:06 <noobmonk3y> sorry, only when mum remembers to not make me drink to much
Apr 15 22:36:08 * lardman settles down to another beer :)
Apr 15 22:36:11 <MohammadAG> nn noobmonk3y
Apr 15 22:36:12 <MohammadAG> LOL
Apr 15 22:36:15 <noobmonk3y> nights ;)
Apr 15 22:36:24 <MohammadAG> was infobot glined?
Apr 15 22:36:56 <frals> lardman: share!
Apr 15 22:37:04 <lardman> come on over
Apr 15 22:37:28 <frals> all flights grounded :(
Apr 15 22:37:39 <MohammadAG> walk
Apr 15 22:37:52 <lcuk> lardman, that app you posted
Apr 15 22:37:54 <MohammadAG> stream e-coach results here :P
Apr 15 22:37:55 <lcuk> does it run on wine?
Apr 15 22:38:01 <frals> id need more than a beer to walk from sweden i think
Apr 15 22:38:02 <lardman> don't think I'd be shouting about beer otherwise do you ;)
Apr 15 22:38:17 <lcuk> haha
Apr 15 22:38:35 <SpeedEvil> frals: you'd need a thick coating of lard.
Apr 15 22:38:42 <zappa> Reason why I ask is I've gotten no questions or comments about qtruby.  I would think there would be atleast some people interested in qtruby on the n900.  Am I just wierd for thinking more ppl would be interested in this?
Apr 15 22:38:47 <lardman> hmm, bloody slow typing with one hand (/me finishes bag of chips)
Apr 15 22:39:02 <woglinde_> zappa sofar you are the onlyone using qtruby
Apr 15 22:39:11 <frals> ive been staring at my code for the last 10minutes waiting for it to type itself out.. not working so far :(
Apr 15 22:39:16 <lardman> lcuk: hmm, I'd prefer wine, but none in the house
Apr 15 22:39:23 <woglinde_> frals lol
Apr 15 22:39:42 <lcuk> really
Apr 15 22:39:50 <MohammadAG> frals, lemme help, it won't write itself out :P
Apr 15 22:39:52 <lardman> frals: more beer, you wake up in the moring with unintelligible but very good code
Apr 15 22:39:55 <SpeedEvil> The on-screen keyboard needs to have a large button mode, for noses.
Apr 15 22:39:56 <lcuk> you only struggled home at weekend with a new barrel!
Apr 15 22:40:14 <frals> lardman: only got wine here and not in the mood for it, ill trade you for a beer ;)
Apr 15 22:40:15 <MohammadAG> LOL @ SpeedEvil
Apr 15 22:40:27 <lardman> frals: if only!
Apr 15 22:40:35 <zappa> woglinde: I think you may be right.
Apr 15 22:40:36 <lcuk> limited vocab
Apr 15 22:40:41 <lardman> damn those volcanoes/icelanders
Apr 15 22:41:09 <frals> yeah damn icelanders for making their volcano go nuts again
Apr 15 22:41:29 <frals> thats what you get when you dont raise em properly *goes off about parenting these days*
Apr 15 22:41:32 <lardman> first they knacker out economy, then our airline industry,... ;)
Apr 15 22:41:38 <lardman> s/out/our
Apr 15 22:41:43 <lcuk> frals, whats the code you gotta write
Apr 15 22:41:50 <lcuk> perhaps we can come up with some interesting variable names
Apr 15 22:42:30 <frals> lcuk: i need to get current chosen apn from gconf from fmms settings, get it from /system/osso/blabla/IAP, get the relevant bits from there and populate the dialog im yet to create
Apr 15 22:42:52 <frals> and if there is no apn select in fmms settings it should fetch it from /etc/operator_settings
Apr 15 22:43:04 <frals> sounds fun eh?
Apr 15 22:43:27 <lcuk> sounds reasonably expected obviously not trivial
Apr 15 22:43:48 <frals> its really easy, which is why its so boring
Apr 15 22:43:52 <lardman> perhaps not the sort of thing to start at this time of night
Apr 15 22:44:08 <lardman> I can't be bothered to start some work I was planning to do
Apr 15 22:44:23 <lardman> in which case I should just go to bed
Apr 15 22:44:32 <lardman> ~curse drinking caffeine in the evening
Apr 15 22:44:37 <frals> lardman: plan is to be up as late as possible so im absolutely knackered tomorrow when im suppose to learn more about cache memories and what not
Apr 15 22:44:48 <lardman> :)
Apr 15 22:44:54 <lcuk> blame it on iceland
Apr 15 22:44:58 <lardman> I have a day of testing tomorrow
Apr 15 22:45:04 <lardman> yes, blame iceland, indeed
Apr 15 22:45:13 <lcuk> today has been a testing day for me also
Apr 15 22:45:17 <lcuk> and will continue tomorrow too
Apr 15 22:45:26 <lardman> IR cameras too? ;)
Apr 15 22:45:28 <woglinde_> testing waht?
Apr 15 22:45:34 <frals> i made a cup of tea but i think i made some green tea shit without caffeine :(
Apr 15 22:45:49 <lardman> detection caps for IR cameras
Apr 15 22:46:03 <lardman> s/caps/capabilities
Apr 15 22:46:05 <frals> nice lcuk, lardman, experienced testers, sounds like you are the perfect two candidates for fmms testing ;D
Apr 15 22:46:29 <lardman> well perhaps, my wife laughs at the fact the N900 doesn't have MMS out of the box ;)
Apr 15 22:46:54 <frals> only requirement currently is the ability to provide more feedback than "its not working, i got error."
Apr 15 22:46:55 <lardman> frals: and tbh I couldn't get it to work last time I tried, so gave up then
Apr 15 22:47:07 <lardman> mine just didn't do anything, no error
Apr 15 22:47:15 <lcuk> yea frals :) hell of a lot further than we were 6 months ago tho :)
Apr 15 22:47:19 <FIQ> [00:47:54] <frals> only requirement currently is the ability to provide more feedback than "its not working, i got error."
Apr 15 22:47:31 <frals> wow even my irc client is tired, took a second for the beep to get here from the highlight
Apr 15 22:47:45 <lardman> FIQ: at least the error is gone now hey? ;)
Apr 15 22:47:49 <FIQ> heh, would be fun to test if i actually sent mms
Apr 15 22:48:01 <frals> lcuk: hehe, been quite a journey so far ;)
Apr 15 22:48:29 <frals> need to start filtering my email and move all mails including 'fmms.log' to another folder as my inbox is a mess :)
Apr 15 22:48:36 * lcuk raises a glass to maemo 
Apr 15 22:48:50 <lardman> cheers!
Apr 15 22:48:54 * frals steals the glass and hopes its beer in it, cheers!
Apr 15 22:49:01 <lcuk> hah
Apr 15 22:49:20 <lcuk> frals is fmms on git yet
Apr 15 22:49:26 <frals> he
Apr 15 22:49:29 <frals> its been for err
Apr 15 22:49:31 <frals> 3 months i think
Apr 15 22:49:37 <frals> http://gitorious.org/fmms
Apr 15 22:49:42 <lcuk> yeah i get distracted
Apr 15 22:49:46 <lcuk> its healthcheck thats not
Apr 15 22:50:00 <frals> Monday January 25 2010  frals  created project fMMS  \o/
Apr 15 22:50:02 <lcuk> :)
Apr 15 22:50:39 <FIQ> hmmm...
Apr 15 22:50:57 * MohammadAG wonders why git
Apr 15 22:51:00 <frals> was talking to a tester today, turns out my magic-wizbang-script to do some routing stuff shouldnt have been working at all
Apr 15 22:51:04 <MohammadAG> actually
Apr 15 22:51:05 <MohammadAG> nvm
Apr 15 22:51:13 <FIQ> would it be theoretical possible to port (super)tyxkart for maemo?
Apr 15 22:51:21 <FIQ> with u, even
Apr 15 22:51:30 <frals> was pretty interesting as running the code manually didnt work but in the script it did for some reason, v. confusing
Apr 15 22:52:08 <MohammadAG> frals, sure it's not just the beer kicking into action? :P
Apr 15 22:52:27 <frals> hehe, not had a drink for a week ;P
Apr 15 22:53:01 <frals> not much incoming from coding for free for some reason so had to cut back ;)
Apr 15 22:53:25 <MohammadAG> oh so you haven't walked to lardman's yet :P
Apr 15 22:53:47 <frals> nope, hes holding back on me i think
Apr 15 22:53:49 <lardman> might need to swim, I do live in Bath after all ;)
Apr 15 22:54:42 <frals> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Stockholm,+Sweden&daddr=Bath,+England&hl=en&geocode=FbRYiQMdaKQTASk9q5g0igfYRTF3AI__dNDnng%3BFbQEEAMdMgfc_ykt4T50pnhxSDEJmm3W0CeLEw&mra=ls&dirflg=w&sll=55.12369,7.855875&sspn=10.921519,33.969727&ie=UTF8&ll=55.40407,10.854492&spn=10.846508,33.969727&t=h&z=5
Apr 15 22:54:55 <frals> should maybe have shortened that link...
Apr 15 22:55:01 <lardman> lol
Apr 15 22:55:30 <lardman> good Lord, 6 days and 17 hours to do 2,803km
Apr 15 22:55:32 <lardman> my arse
Apr 15 22:55:37 <lardman> pardon my French
Apr 15 22:56:12 <MohammadAG> lardman, at least his N900 will company him on the way
Apr 15 22:56:17 <MohammadAG> oh wait... :P
Apr 15 22:56:21 <lardman> oh I suppose it uses the ferry, so perhaps doable
Apr 15 22:56:37 <frals> yeah for the first 24hrs until the battery is run dry
Apr 15 22:56:51 <MohammadAG> <MohammadAG> oh wait... :P
Apr 15 22:56:52 <MohammadAG> :)
Apr 15 22:57:21 <MohammadAG> frals, you could take a battery belt
Apr 15 22:57:44 <lardman> well frals, if you do rock up in 6 days and 17 hours I'll make sure there's some beers in the fridge for you, and some for your feet too!
Apr 15 22:57:48 <lcuk> wow directions from manchester to stockholm are worse frals lardman
Apr 15 22:57:50 <lcuk> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=stockholm&daddr=manchester&geocode=FbRYiQMdaKQTASk9q5g0igfYRTF3AI__dNDnng%3BFQgNMAMd-Ofd_ynb9SZSTE16SDGqa_4EOBS-2Q&hl=en&mra=ls&dirflg=w&sll=56.022948,11.337891&sspn=17.764561,39.506836&ie=UTF8&ll=55.652798,10.942383&spn=17.931735,39.506836&t=h&z=5
Apr 15 22:57:54 <frals> lol lardman
Apr 15 22:58:12 <w00t_> facebrick users: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=612725&postcount=331
Apr 15 22:58:14 <frals> lol loving the ferry from england to nederlands and then back again
Apr 15 22:58:19 <lardman> lcuk: lol
Apr 15 22:58:23 <lcuk> i have to bypass amsterdam
Apr 15 22:58:59 <MohammadAG> i remember when google said swim across the atlantic ocean
Apr 15 22:59:07 <lardman> almost as my coming to the Amsterdam summit, needing to fly from Berlin to London then back to Amsterdam
Apr 15 22:59:18 <MohammadAG> asked for directions from the UK to new york
Apr 15 22:59:29 <lardman> yeah, says something about swimming iirc
Apr 15 22:59:31 <lcuk> yeah lardman
Apr 15 22:59:47 <lcuk> anyway, im gonna beat lardman tonight
Apr 15 22:59:49 <lcuk> gnite chaps \o
Apr 15 22:59:54 <frals> http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/04/icelands_disruptive_volcano.html some nice pics of the volcano
Apr 15 22:59:57 <frals> gnite lcuk o/
Apr 15 22:59:58 <lardman> night lcuk
Apr 15 23:00:10 <lardman> MohammadAG: I think they've fixed that feature
Apr 15 23:00:13 <MohammadAG> nn lcuk
Apr 15 23:00:23 <MohammadAG> lardman, why, i liked it :P
Apr 15 23:00:25 <lardman> just tried and it won't route from e.g. London to NY
Apr 15 23:00:33 <lardman> MohammadAG: :)
Apr 15 23:00:42 * MohammadAG sues google
Apr 15 23:01:52 <lardman> hey Dave
Apr 15 23:04:21 * lardman heads for bed
Apr 15 23:04:24 <lardman> night all
Apr 15 23:04:30 <frals> nn
Apr 15 23:08:54 <DocScrutinizer> users interested in this channel also checked the following products: http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/ez430-chronos.html
Apr 15 23:11:39 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.msp430.com/index.php/EZ430-Chronos?DCMP=Chronos&HQS=Other+OT+chronoswiki
Apr 15 23:11:44 <woglinde_> damn watchdog
Apr 15 23:11:50 <dmj726> You know, there are nearly a thousand apps in extras, testing, and devel?
Apr 15 23:12:11 <DocScrutinizer> where's the dog? that's a wristwatch XP
Apr 15 23:13:03 <woglinde_> *sigh* even with rd-flags disbaled
Apr 15 23:13:06 <woglinde_> it kicks in
Apr 15 23:13:21 <javispedro> but does it run linux?
Apr 15 23:16:12 * MohammadAG_ needs a hibernate function
Apr 15 23:16:39 <MohammadAG> dump ram, shutdown, turn on, restore ram
Apr 15 23:16:41 <DocScrutinizer> no, but it does blend ;-P
Apr 15 23:17:00 <MohammadAG> the N900 blends?
Apr 15 23:17:02 <dmj726> I was surprised that there were that many applications in our repositories.
Apr 15 23:17:12 <dmj726> I would have guessed 500 at most.
Apr 15 23:17:22 <MohammadAG> why I need a hibernate function:
Apr 15 23:17:32 <MohammadAG> you'll find out in 5 minutes
Apr 15 23:17:46 <MohammadAG>   battery.reporting.current = 5  (0x5)  (int)
Apr 15 23:17:54 <DocScrutinizer>  How can TI sell the eZ430-Chronos for only US$49?
Apr 15 23:17:55 <DocScrutinizer> The eZ430-Chronos kit is intended to be an attractive development kit and is not intended to be a consumer product. Texas Instruments and the partner companies are sponsoring components or services to increase the accessibility of flexible and innovative development systems to a broader audience. Consumer products usually retail for higher prices.
Apr 15 23:18:39 <javispedro> it does not look like an expensive watch.
Apr 15 23:25:29 <DocScrutinizer> well it looks pretty much like a watch, given it's a MSP430 uC devel kit
Apr 15 23:26:08 <DocScrutinizer> 4k RAM 32k flash
Apr 15 23:26:15 <GAN900> Damn, where's lbt when you have an answer to his question.
Apr 15 23:26:35 <GAN900> Timeline for arch discussion seems to be the November Summit
Apr 15 23:26:46 <javispedro> it would be much interesting with a ~ 64x64 matrix lcd (and much expensive and with less battery life, though)
Apr 15 23:27:16 <GAN900> low batt
Apr 15 23:27:20 <GAN900> going down, brb
Apr 15 23:27:23 <javispedro> hehe
Apr 15 23:27:30 <DocScrutinizer> hmm ok, specs say 96 segment display
Apr 15 23:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: actually with 44GPIO it's a bit hard to drive a 64^2, without additional driver chips etc
Apr 15 23:28:54 <javispedro> 9 digits x 7 + some symbols (I guess) << 96 segments
Apr 15 23:29:06 <javispedro> yeah, maybe 64² too much
Apr 15 23:29:10 <dneary> hi all
Apr 15 23:29:34 <javispedro> hi
Apr 15 23:29:39 <Robot101> dneary: o/
Apr 15 23:30:20 <javispedro> oh, pressure sensor.
Apr 15 23:30:28 <dneary> Robot101, \o/
Apr 15 23:30:28 <GAN900> Back
Apr 15 23:30:35 <javispedro> altimeter alone could be an interesting usecase for some
Apr 15 23:31:17 <javispedro> GAN900: interesting stuff?
Apr 15 23:31:22 * Robot101 still wants to port MeeGo to his free Nexus One
Apr 15 23:31:43 <GAN900> javispedro, eeeeh
Apr 15 23:31:45 <Robot101> problem is all of the kernel drivers use the Android kernel bonghits like wakelocks and new device model :(
Apr 15 23:31:54 <GAN900> Robot101, you here?
Apr 15 23:32:00 <Robot101> yeah
Apr 15 23:32:09 <GAN900> No shit? Where?
Apr 15 23:32:15 * Robot101 is sitting next to dneary 
Apr 15 23:32:31 <GAN900> Where the hell did Dave get off to?
Apr 15 23:32:44 <GAN900> aha!
Apr 15 23:32:47 <Robot101> GAN900: oh! that was you at lunch :) hi
Apr 15 23:32:48 <GAN900> Well now. ;)
Apr 15 23:32:51 <GAN900> lol
Apr 15 23:32:51 <Myrtti> ohai Robot101 _o/
Apr 15 23:32:53 <GAN900> Howdy.
Apr 15 23:33:06 <Robot101> I thought your name was familiar :)
Apr 15 23:33:11 <GAN900> Hehe
Apr 15 23:33:20 <Myrtti> Robot101: what was the weather like at Cambridge?
Apr 15 23:33:25 * javispedro thinks all those sci-fi authors fans of vr worlds should see this very channel
Apr 15 23:33:56 <GAN900> lol
Apr 15 23:34:12 <Robot101> Myrtti: I'm in San Francisco at the Collab summit too
Apr 15 23:34:18 <GAN900> javispedro, N900 makes magic possible.
Apr 15 23:34:31 <GAN900> Robot101, yeah, Myrtti two chairs to my left. :P
Apr 15 23:34:43 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV7xWMmI1PQ
Apr 15 23:34:50 <Myrtti> Robot101: yup, but you've probably been to Cambridge not that long ago, I've been here for a month now
Apr 15 23:34:54 <Robot101> Myrtti: Collabora just joined the Linux Foundation, we thought we should show up :)
Apr 15 23:35:02 <Myrtti> Robot101: whoo
Apr 15 23:35:12 <Myrtti> need to poke my boss about that too
Apr 15 23:35:19 <GAN900> Everybody's doing it these days.
Apr 15 23:35:28 <Myrtti> yeah, it's the new black
Apr 15 23:35:37 <Robot101> need to see if we can maintain tp, gstreamer, dbus and stuff in meego
Apr 15 23:39:14 <ShadowJK> SpeedEvil, pong?
Apr 15 23:39:27 <ShadowJK> oh
Apr 15 23:39:42 <dmj726> cehteh: what do you think about the Lightworks news?
Apr 15 23:39:45 <DocScrutinizer> now this channel is real madness - LOL
Apr 15 23:40:44 * ShadowJK should complete bq27200.sh, make bq24150.sh, and maybe bme_replacedbyashellscript.sh
Apr 15 23:40:51 <ShadowJK> and then rewrite in C
Apr 15 23:41:53 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: actually that'd help a lot as long as Stskeeps is at Nokia talking to BME nerds about opening up stuff
Apr 15 23:44:00 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: I'm off for a short beer now. Let's throw on a heap all we think we know later on (or tomorrow). OK?
Apr 15 23:44:21 <ShadowJK> ok
Apr 15 23:44:38 <ShadowJK> I'm actually at work now, can't irc much :)
Apr 15 23:44:47 <DocScrutinizer> IC
Apr 15 23:45:10 <DocScrutinizer> and I'm usually awake anothe r few hours, so cya l8er
Apr 15 23:45:56 * ShadowJK discovers why his n900 was using abnormal amounts of power
Apr 15 23:46:17 <ShadowJK> someone was doing bruteforce ssh user/pass attack...
Apr 15 23:47:41 <pronto> someone was trying to bruteforce into your phone?
Apr 15 23:48:37 <MohammadAG> been playing with leds
Apr 15 23:48:45 <MohammadAG> if you set two colours to one engine
Apr 15 23:48:48 <MohammadAG> at full pwm
Apr 15 23:49:03 <MohammadAG> and the other colour that's left to the 2nd one
Apr 15 23:49:06 <MohammadAG> at 0 pwm
Apr 15 23:49:27 <MohammadAG> you'd get a different colour (or same colour with different brightness)
Apr 15 23:49:35 <MohammadAG> purple turns pink in this case
Apr 15 23:50:11 <MohammadAG> weird yellow also works
Apr 15 23:53:04 <ShadowJK> pronto, yep
Apr 15 23:53:08 <pronto> rofl
Apr 15 23:55:45 <ShadowJK> Imagine if they'd gotten in, tried to wget their rootkit and met with ENOSPC
Apr 15 23:59:22 <javispedro> then did df -h
Apr 15 23:59:34 <javispedro> only to die of old age before the pymaemo bind mounts listing ends
Apr 16 00:18:51 <cehteh> dmj726_n900: no code yet, only windows, 20 years old codebase (32 bit, poor smp?), lots of 3rd party licensed stuff which must be removed, looking at their specs a lot things are hardcoded
Apr 16 01:53:50 <crashanddie> yooooooooo
Apr 16 02:24:24 <b-man> crashanddie: yo
Apr 16 02:24:31 <_ToArtist_> ????
Apr 16 02:24:37 <crashanddie> Hottentottententententoonstellingsmakersopleidingsprogramma
Apr 16 02:24:48 <b-man> O_o
Apr 16 02:25:01 <b-man> crashanddie: you ok? xD
Apr 16 02:25:23 <crashanddie> That's one word, in dutch
Apr 16 02:25:39 <b-man> oh shi-
Apr 16 02:26:27 <_ToArtist_> ????
Apr 16 02:26:54 <b-man> _ToArtist_: yup, it's random hour
Apr 16 02:27:22 <yuizy_> epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydelläänsäkäänköpähän is said to be the longest finnish non-compound word
Apr 16 02:27:29 <_ToArtist_> How can I slove it
Apr 16 02:27:43 <b-man> anyone herd of Dragon Fruit? :D
Apr 16 02:28:44 <crashanddie> b-man: here's another one: Halfautomatischeautobandenventieldopjesetiketplakmachinehulpreperateur
Apr 16 02:28:48 <b-man> http://img.alibaba.com/img/buyoffer/101623260/Buy_fresh_dragon_fruit_for_the_French_and_European_market.jpg
Apr 16 02:29:09 <fureddo> Hi
Apr 16 02:29:18 <fureddo> What does PR1.1 means?
Apr 16 02:29:19 <b-man> crashanddie: imagine having a conversation with those words xD
Apr 16 02:29:37 <b-man> PR1.1 is a firmware version
Apr 16 02:29:46 <fureddo> What does PR stands for?
Apr 16 02:29:58 <fureddo> Do you know?
Apr 16 02:30:13 <DocScrutinizer> program release?
Apr 16 02:30:17 <b-man> to be honest, haven't a clue
Apr 16 02:30:40 <b-man> what DocScrutinizer said
Apr 16 02:31:26 <DocScrutinizer> or production release or whatever
Apr 16 02:31:32 <DocScrutinizer> who cares?
Apr 16 02:31:37 <fureddo> Me :-)
Apr 16 02:31:48 <fureddo> I was just curious.  Of course, it's not that important.
Apr 16 02:34:00 <crashanddie> production release
Apr 16 02:39:36 <DocScrutinizer> btw composite words of any length are just lame. recursive composite words of virtually infinite length are just slightly more braintickling. yuizy_'s longest non composite is funny actually
Apr 16 02:41:28 <DocScrutinizer> first and second class in Finland must be a hell
Apr 16 02:47:01 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: stfu
Apr 16 02:47:05 <jacekowski> with me luck
Apr 16 02:47:06 <crashanddie> :P
Apr 16 02:47:10 <jacekowski> i'm going to flash my phone
Apr 16 02:49:31 <crashanddie> jacekowski: with you luck?
Apr 16 02:52:40 <jacekowski> wish*
Apr 16 02:55:02 <jacekowski> support for ext3 or reiser on memory card would be nice
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 16 03:00:02 2010