**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 22 02:59:57 2010 Apr 22 03:36:38 yeah this n900 is great Apr 22 03:37:03 i love the damn thing.. i can deal with the sidewaysness heh Apr 22 03:37:51 no sftp app tho... i remember maemo4 having one Apr 22 03:41:53 Macer: server or client? Apr 22 03:46:50 * thomaz can't wait til always portrait mode on n900 Apr 22 03:47:06 thomaz: if it ever comes Apr 22 03:47:29 thomaz: quite frankly, I'd rather there is a solid framework that allows apps to leverage it if required, rather than a dodgy one-size-fits-all implementation that breaks all the apps Apr 22 03:48:45 i mean not in the application, but in the main menu/phone/contacts/etc. Apr 22 03:52:46 crashanddie: client Apr 22 03:52:52 it has sftp Apr 22 03:53:00 but sftp is limited Apr 22 03:53:26 i want a ui sftp client. maemo had one Apr 22 03:53:45 forgot what it was called. has been a while Apr 22 04:03:39 proftpd? :P Apr 22 04:16:32 lmao Apr 22 04:17:24 on the meego mailing list: "Releasing a new version of MeeGo every 6 months is never going to work. Do you honestly believe Intel would be so succesful if they tried to release new CPUs every 6 months?" Apr 22 04:17:47 that's a good one Apr 22 04:17:47 the reply has "don't try to bullshit your way through a mailing list populated by Intel people" written all over it Apr 22 04:18:04 "Intel has been release CPUs every 6 months for ages, and that's why it's so succesful" Apr 22 04:18:14 s/release/releasing/ Apr 22 04:18:15 crashanddie meant: "Intel has been releasing CPUs every 6 months for ages, and that's why it's so succesful" Apr 22 04:18:42 (paraphraseD) Apr 22 04:20:57 fuck portrait. Do you have portrait (9:16) moni on your desktop? Would you want to watch a whole A4 or us-letter page in a 3'5 WVGA? Apr 22 04:21:11 lol Apr 22 04:22:06 "but I'm used to phone being portrait, and I think this *should* be considered a phone" Apr 22 04:23:06 it is a device. with many features Apr 22 04:23:48 Portrait makes it easier to hold. Apr 22 04:23:51 wow Apr 22 04:24:03 I look back at engadget and dell shit out an entire line of mobiles Apr 22 04:24:26 there's exactly ONE 'good' reason I heard, for portrait. Was something with US Americans, and pr0n Apr 22 04:26:59 microlith: holy shit Apr 22 04:27:26 Ken-Young: I'm frequently using the kickstart like a finger ring - extrremely convenient to hold Apr 22 04:28:44 eh? Apr 22 04:28:50 that didn't make any sense DocScrutinizer Apr 22 04:29:13 s/kickstart like a/kickstand with my/ Apr 22 04:29:16 crashanddie: sorry, I'll help you out. Apr 22 04:29:42 crashanddie: put the device in your left palm. now look where the kickstart is Apr 22 04:29:51 aaah sorry Apr 22 04:30:38 how can I get a contact's name by phone number? Apr 22 04:30:39 python Apr 22 04:32:31 was down Apr 22 04:32:54 repost, sorry for double sends Apr 22 04:33:08 crashanddie: sorry, I'll help you out. Apr 22 04:33:10 crashanddie: put the device in your left palm. now look where the kickstart is Apr 22 04:33:14 aaah sorry Apr 22 04:33:17 s/start/stand Apr 22 04:33:20 amiga alzheimer Apr 22 04:38:01 hah Apr 22 04:41:11 hah? Apr 22 05:05:20 ~ping talk.maemo.org Apr 22 05:05:22 pong talk.maemo.org Apr 22 05:05:42 ~status talk.maemo.org Apr 22 05:05:55 ~up talk.maemo.org Apr 22 05:09:35 morn Apr 22 05:12:51 moin Apr 22 05:14:51 ~nslookup talk.maemo.org Apr 22 05:14:53 talk.maemo.org is 74.86.202.247 Apr 22 05:22:18 moorning Stskeeps, crash, infobot Apr 22 05:24:02 "Google is adding store interiors to Street View." Apr 22 05:24:14 (can we get a BFG9000 with that?) Apr 22 05:24:27 Home interiors is coming next. Apr 22 05:26:35 lol Apr 22 05:26:58 ~botsnack Apr 22 05:27:28 ouch Apr 22 05:32:19 Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) Apr 22 05:35:25 Any tips on doing the browser history gesture more successfully? It always takes me at least two tries. Apr 22 05:36:29 Gesture is right (off screen) to left. Apr 22 05:36:58 BusterB: timeless told me it depends on how exact it is done, and on pressure Apr 22 05:37:05 I can always get the other gesture for mouse mode first try. Apr 22 05:37:35 DocScrutinizer: Tim removed the bot? Apr 22 05:37:38 (like "more pressure means stylus and stylus needs to be more exact" - or the other way round) Apr 22 05:38:41 Whats the exact method doc? Apr 22 05:38:55 oic Apr 22 05:39:56 My fingernail gives me better success rates as well. Apr 22 05:40:18 yes Apr 22 05:40:43 nail==stylus, for that behalf Apr 22 05:41:18 I wish it was as easy as the cursor mode gesture Apr 22 05:41:44 talk to timeless_mbp Apr 22 05:43:30 cursor mode takes a 45° angle and still it works Apr 22 05:44:49 starting to like the device even tough the present software flaws on the phone functionality Apr 22 05:46:04 a friend developer said he is going to buy one too but he'll probably start rewriting maemo from the core ... Apr 22 05:46:19 muhaha Apr 22 05:46:31 he already talked like i want to change the kernel ... Apr 22 05:46:32 Gh0sty: GLWT Apr 22 05:46:36 Good luck on that Apr 22 05:46:36 Gh0sty: please be sure he's aware Maemo is not open source and there are no specs with which to write it from scratch Apr 22 05:46:43 crash: ouch. Apr 22 05:46:52 luke-jr: 'not fully' Apr 22 05:46:53 :P Apr 22 05:46:59 nono the kernel for example Apr 22 05:47:02 but besides that, yes Apr 22 05:47:03 Stskeeps: nothing is ever fully closed Apr 22 05:47:11 RST38h: ? Apr 22 05:47:13 Gh0sty: the kernel is open Apr 22 05:47:16 AFAIK Apr 22 05:47:19 luke-jr: doesn't this mean there's no systems you can use :P Apr 22 05:47:22 crash: Apr 22 05:47:22 Gh0sty: GLWT Apr 22 05:47:22 > Good luck on that Apr 22 05:47:29 Stskeeps: ? Apr 22 05:47:38 heh Apr 22 05:47:40 nm Apr 22 05:47:42 * Stskeeps needs coffee Apr 22 05:47:46 and trust me if i say ... if the guy says things like that ... he is not kidding ... Apr 22 05:47:49 * luke-jr needs sleep Apr 22 05:48:07 Gh0sty: can I ask you a favour? Apr 22 05:48:07 Gh0sty: send him here to chat with me first :p Apr 22 05:48:30 i even offered him some money to make me some soft Apr 22 05:48:33 coffee - a brilliant idea Apr 22 05:48:49 but he wants to doe it for free for me Apr 22 05:49:08 Gh0sty: seriously, don't understimate the quality of the developers that have attempted what you are talking about Apr 22 05:49:14 Gh0sty: yeah, we probably all remember your talk with crashanddie from a few days ago Apr 22 05:49:15 as said the guy is passionate about what he is doing Apr 22 05:49:30 Gh0sty: not more than I am, I bet Apr 22 05:49:48 Gh0sty: it is deeply insulting when you come here, and say "I know a guy who's going to rewrite Maemo" Apr 22 05:50:04 ah, good luck with that Apr 22 05:50:05 * luke-jr doesn't think so. Apr 22 05:50:07 just naive Apr 22 05:50:07 * Stskeeps nearly went mad Apr 22 05:50:08 :P Apr 22 05:50:19 crashanddie: no i did not mean it like that ... Apr 22 05:50:32 Gh0sty: because frankly, if the guy is such a pompous prat that he believes he can estimate the workload of rewriting the core of Maemo just by looking at the device Apr 22 05:50:49 the well, as soon as he arrives here, he's going to get one single reception: he can fuck right off. Apr 22 05:51:07 crashanddie: no i did not mean it like that ... Apr 22 05:51:16 crashanddie: it's entirely possible except that Nokia has the hardware interfaces closed Apr 22 05:51:22 what timzone are you from? Apr 22 05:52:02 luke-jr: I don't doubt the technical possibility, however I know the state of affairs, and realise how impossible and arrogant for someone to assert things like that without knowing them Apr 22 05:52:05 crashanddie: ok i admit it sounds outrageous and i can sound a bit over the top Apr 22 05:52:10 luke-jr: oh, did you see the modem speech part was opened? Apr 22 05:52:22 Stskeeps: yeah, excellent news Apr 22 05:52:24 crashanddie: it's because Nokia gives people the impression that it's open Apr 22 05:52:28 Stskeeps: no Apr 22 05:52:37 luke-jr: meego celluar, libcmtspeech Apr 22 05:52:40 (sp) Apr 22 05:52:41 ok hes not going to rewrite everything there you are right Apr 22 05:52:50 Stskeeps: did you ever get more info regarding the gpu driver? Apr 22 05:53:29 but he has been playing a couple of days with it and is going to buy one too soon Apr 22 05:54:07 Gh0sty: if he means 'run Gentoo', you can say 'run Gentoo' Apr 22 05:54:22 but as said the guy is passionate about coding and i believe strongly if he says things like that ... Apr 22 05:54:31 he is not kidding Apr 22 05:54:43 nono not that Apr 22 05:54:54 Ok. Apr 22 05:54:58 hes also a debian guy Apr 22 05:55:01 anyhow, N900 is last year's news at best Apr 22 05:55:09 Gh0sty: Once he rewrites Maemo from scratch, come back and show off. Apr 22 05:55:25 which timezone luke-jr Apr 22 05:55:30 'cause talk is cheap and so are ideas. Apr 22 05:55:33 crashanddie: for n8x0? it got released, burden's on our side now Apr 22 05:55:35 Gh0sty: all timezones Apr 22 05:55:52 you here in say ... Apr 22 05:56:11 5h from now? Apr 22 05:56:28 no Apr 22 05:56:32 its 8am currently here Apr 22 05:56:33 I'm not even here now really Apr 22 05:56:37 1 AM here Apr 22 05:56:40 lol Apr 22 05:56:53 but you sleep sometimes? Apr 22 05:56:58 now. Apr 22 05:57:08 he is asleep right now, and you are his nightmare. Apr 22 05:57:10 or you are actually a machine Apr 22 05:57:12 so, be quiet. Apr 22 05:57:20 lol Apr 22 05:57:25 * RST38h goes to work Apr 22 05:57:34 you bastard Apr 22 05:58:15 and i mean not that i have to validate his doing ... Apr 22 05:59:22 Gh0sty: GMT + 10 here Apr 22 05:59:26 nah nvm its just going to sound like bragging Apr 22 05:59:38 the guy is not like that Apr 22 06:00:05 its just me giving a bad impression of him right now Apr 22 06:00:25 you talk too much Apr 22 06:00:28 drugs will do that to you Apr 22 06:00:29 lol Apr 22 06:00:48 well actually you are right Apr 22 06:00:57 i am on drugs ... Apr 22 06:01:09 Not surprising, considering the claims you hold. Apr 22 06:01:14 so you are right Apr 22 06:01:18 Also: La Rue Ketanou - Tu Parles Trop comes to mind. Apr 22 06:01:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TpVD7sZUbY Apr 22 06:01:40 but the claims even tough bold are i think partially valid Apr 22 06:02:03 Gh0sty: yes, but that's like saying that Dinosaurs never lived because an asteroid killed them Apr 22 06:02:12 lol Apr 22 06:02:14 The claim is partially true, however completely false overall. Apr 22 06:02:17 lol Apr 22 06:02:25 O.o Apr 22 06:02:34 what part is true? Apr 22 06:02:53 what is who claiming, and why? Apr 22 06:02:57 well, according to one theory, the asteroid part. Apr 22 06:03:10 hmm Apr 22 06:03:19 * luke-jr sends an asteroid Gh0sty's way Apr 22 06:03:26 no lets say in his spare time but also for work he also developped on iphone, arm devices, amd geode ... for example Apr 22 06:03:26 get a coffe, or a nap, gentlemen. Whatever meets your mood best Apr 22 06:03:41 wtf guys Apr 22 06:03:43 Gh0sty: stfu Apr 22 06:03:49 ok Apr 22 06:03:53 Gh0sty: so did every nerd teenager in his basement Apr 22 06:04:08 as said i will invite him here Apr 22 06:04:09 wtf TigerTael? Apr 22 06:04:15 so wtf is the topic? Apr 22 06:04:21 the topic is wtf Apr 22 06:04:28 well duh Apr 22 06:04:33 and sorry but i'm indeed on drugs Apr 22 06:04:43 is that the topics? Apr 22 06:04:47 Gh0sty: IRC logs are valid in court I think Apr 22 06:04:52 no not the illegal type Apr 22 06:04:55 :p Apr 22 06:05:03 ritalin? Apr 22 06:05:10 LOL Apr 22 06:05:13 cortisone Apr 22 06:05:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP7zty5Kg7g Apr 22 06:05:23 check that out :) Apr 22 06:05:42 3D stuff with ogre Apr 22 06:05:51 did it eat you? Apr 22 06:05:57 Morning all you guys! :D Apr 22 06:06:04 TigerTael: morning Apr 22 06:06:11 and night Apr 22 06:06:28 Pforce, Ogre3d engine for the win! Apr 22 06:06:53 if you get to hear a couple of weeks ago you could have been dead by simple things ... you start to think a bit differently ... Apr 22 06:06:55 yah, shame I only got GLES1 rendering working Apr 22 06:07:16 would have liket the 2 but the ogre x11 build is not complete yet Apr 22 06:07:24 liked Apr 22 06:08:13 Gh0sty: send me a PM when you're ready to contribute interesting things to the channel. We're not interested in your medical status, nor are we interested about hearing about all your imaginary friends -- if you're tripping on drugs, go to #defocus. Thanks Apr 22 06:08:26 wow Apr 22 06:08:34 Mace_N900: stfu Apr 22 06:08:36 Pforce, are you making naali? Apr 22 06:08:44 seriously need an sftp client Apr 22 06:08:47 heh Apr 22 06:08:53 doesn't it have one? Apr 22 06:09:00 I'm trying to sleep! everyone be quiet Apr 22 06:09:13 mece: yes Apr 22 06:09:15 it has openssh sftp sure Apr 22 06:09:20 Pforce, cool :) Apr 22 06:09:20 im the guy in the video Apr 22 06:09:25 luke-jr: turn the sound off? Apr 22 06:09:29 well you cant see me but :) Apr 22 06:09:31 crashanddie: what sound? Apr 22 06:09:31 luke-jr: I can help you, you know ;) Apr 22 06:09:34 Pforce, I like your afro :P Apr 22 06:09:38 but i need something a little more persistamt Apr 22 06:09:44 :D Apr 22 06:09:52 crashanddie: I wired IRC to my brain Apr 22 06:10:00 (not really) Apr 22 06:10:09 downloadimg 2GB over 3G doesnt seem the cool thing to do Apr 22 06:10:36 Gh0sty: please stop this insults. The very poor and sparse *docu* for maemo takes a single guy maybe a 6 months to write Apr 22 06:11:05 * luke-jr notes docs tend to be much more difficult to write than code Apr 22 06:11:12 so please stop claiming somebody will redo maemo_the_system in his spare time Apr 22 06:11:30 n900 gets better reception than the G1 tho Apr 22 06:11:53 ok Apr 22 06:12:46 well. let me fiddle with this thing a bit more Apr 22 06:14:06 I'm going to rewrite windows 7 in my spare time too! Apr 22 06:14:29 TigerTael: someone's already doing that Apr 22 06:14:32 it's called ReactOS Apr 22 06:14:49 Sweet! Apr 22 06:15:03 Nah, I know of ReactOS already, and that's a remake of Windows XP, not Windows 7. Apr 22 06:15:24 it was originally NT Apr 22 06:15:29 they'll catch up eventually Apr 22 06:15:33 at least with their stated goal Apr 22 06:15:35 haha Apr 22 06:15:40 not yet decided if it's sleep deprivation or if this channel really went ape shit Apr 22 06:15:47 lol Apr 22 06:15:55 sleep Apr 22 06:16:01 ok, goodnight for real Apr 22 06:16:01 ;) Apr 22 06:18:14 *Sigh* if only ReactOS could speed up its development. Apr 22 06:18:33 bad name then Apr 22 06:18:38 TigerTael, please elaborate Apr 22 06:18:54 you should fork it, and call NoReactiOS Apr 22 06:18:57 xchat seems a little flakey Apr 22 06:19:01 my apologies and i hope you have no hard feelings Apr 22 06:19:03 mece, they're only on 0.3.x.x ;/ Apr 22 06:19:13 And they've been around for YEARS. Apr 22 06:19:14 ;/ Apr 22 06:19:17 run a bit ahead of myself Apr 22 06:19:59 TigerTael, why do you want it? Apr 22 06:20:39 but ok as i understand most people here are apparently die hard developers around the thing? Apr 22 06:20:51 mece, I don't really, but I would like to see a free Windows XP clone. ;] Apr 22 06:21:01 TigerTael, definately. Apr 22 06:21:12 it's pretty ambitious. Apr 22 06:21:15 Lindows? :) Apr 22 06:21:26 TigerTael: its called linux? Apr 22 06:21:29 it has nothing to do with linux Apr 22 06:21:38 :p Apr 22 06:22:07 i dont miss much in my linux desktops Apr 22 06:22:27 barely run windows anymore Apr 22 06:22:35 hmmh, n810 gps was really really bad, it doesn't manage to get a location even with a data connection >< Apr 22 06:23:49 is the n900 gps ok? i heard from people with the preprod device they recommend an external receiver Apr 22 06:24:08 not really tested it myself Apr 22 06:25:22 Gh0sty: i get a signal in the basement of a 2 storey brick and treehouse which completely dampens most GSM signals Apr 22 06:25:38 GPS is mad efficient Apr 22 06:25:51 Mace_N900: xchat is great Apr 22 06:26:02 it's ok for some things, but apparently there are some inaccuracies if looking meters close proximity Apr 22 06:26:12 wondering actually because the gps does not interest me is it possible/useful to unload the module to save power? Apr 22 06:26:22 compared to e71 for example the accuracy isn't that good Apr 22 06:26:30 gps is really really faster with a data connection Apr 22 06:26:31 Surfa: thats also what i heard Apr 22 06:26:55 Corsac: well problem is ... Apr 22 06:27:00 and I hit a weird bug that in some case, it seems that the recent position is first reset to longitude=0, last latitude Apr 22 06:27:05 Gh0sty, i think that gps isn't enabled if there aren't applications using it.. so i don't see any benefit of disabling it Apr 22 06:27:38 3g in belgium is limited you get a dataplan for 150MB / month Apr 22 06:27:56 it was not really a problem in europe since longitude=0 is not too far Apr 22 06:28:06 but I was in the us last month and there, it was definitely a problem Apr 22 06:28:09 for 15 eur / month Apr 22 06:29:00 not sure how much dollar that is currently Apr 22 06:29:00 Surfa: accuracy of gps is great. what sucks is TTFF when you got no connectivity so no 'A' kicks in Apr 22 06:29:16 Gh0sty: around $15 without taxes :) Apr 22 06:29:22 Gh0sty: unloading modules doesn't help at all and is a very bad idea Apr 22 06:29:29 nah its less i think Apr 22 06:29:45 like 20$ or so Apr 22 06:29:46 DocScrutinizer: well i run wifiswitcher ... Apr 22 06:29:54 why is it bad? Apr 22 06:30:00 $20* Apr 22 06:30:02 DocScrutinizer, i have done comparison with my e71 and n900 and i can't agree Apr 22 06:30:11 ..during geocaching.. Apr 22 06:30:24 oh yes its more you are right Apr 22 06:30:31 Surfa: my N900 was around 5m to the point Apr 22 06:30:36 the euro is strong vs the dollar Apr 22 06:30:44 wouldn't you have a real gps unit for geocaching? Apr 22 06:30:49 so if e71 is better, ok it be then Apr 22 06:30:56 what is geocaching? Apr 22 06:31:02 in open areas i was getting 10-20m off from the point with n900.. e71 accuracy was 3-4m Apr 22 06:31:16 ~wiki geocaching Apr 22 06:31:17 store the sats i think viliny Apr 22 06:31:20 At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocaching (URL), Wikipedia explains: " 'Geocaching' is an outdoor activity in which the participants use a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and seek containers (called "geocaches" or "caches") anywhere in the world. A typical cache is a small waterproof container (usually a tupperware or ammo box) containing a logbook. Larger containers can also contain items for trading, ... Apr 22 06:31:24 in geocaching that's pretty significant already :) Apr 22 06:31:38 lol Apr 22 06:31:52 caches ... Apr 22 06:32:28 sounds... like fun :/ Apr 22 06:32:39 I don't see why they call it an "outdoor" activity :P Apr 22 06:32:42 yes heard about that once ... Apr 22 06:32:53 it's very fun actually Apr 22 06:32:56 the concept sounded cool Apr 22 06:32:58 We used to do paintcaching Apr 22 06:33:14 Corsac: (weird bug) seems related to wrong TZ or incorrect RTC setting Apr 22 06:33:20 geocaching + paintball :) Apr 22 06:33:22 if you like being outdoors you definitely should try it Apr 22 06:33:45 DocScrutinizer: TZ was updated automagically, not sure about RTC Apr 22 06:33:54 (and now it's hard to reproduce since I'm back in europe) Apr 22 06:34:25 Gh0sty: (wifiswitcher) no idea what that actually is. So obviously I don't need it - maybe it's a botch to fix a particular problem with wifi eating battery when not associated Apr 22 06:34:26 DocScrutinizer: but it was really reset to 0, not something around, so it looked to me like a wrong reset Apr 22 06:34:27 who is supposed to set up the things? is it like people leaving strangers things and posting the coordinates somewhere or is it like a game for friends where you hide shit and they find it or? Apr 22 06:35:24 yes strangers Apr 22 06:35:39 the things are usually of low value Apr 22 06:35:58 just the excitement of the search Apr 22 06:36:06 :/ Apr 22 06:36:24 my ide it sounded cool Apr 22 06:36:32 idea* Apr 22 06:36:34 Corsac: there's some bug in GPS. That's also the reason why you need internet & 'Assisted' to get a first fix Apr 22 06:37:00 DocScrutinizer: yeah but you can't always count on an data connection, and it my case the “first connection” in US was ok Apr 22 06:37:16 I mean, it managed to get a fix (multiple time, with or without connection) Apr 22 06:37:22 by waiting enough time, in the latter case Apr 22 06:37:23 oh yes something back OT: i noticed on my bluetooth ear in the car Apr 22 06:37:39 Corsac: you might want to check bugtracker, I seem to remember a bug where lon was mirrored to the other side of Greenwich Apr 22 06:38:04 but then, if you switch it off, and switch it on (like, just close map or maep, then run it again), the first location shown was somewhere around valencia, spain, which was on the same latitude and longitude 0 Apr 22 06:38:10 Anyone here who can give me some pointers on packaging for devel? Apr 22 06:38:15 sometimes when i hangup the ear stays active (hear noise) which screws with the battery of the ear ... Apr 22 06:38:43 All the guides assume that I have this and that in the source, which I don't :/ Apr 22 06:38:44 only way i found is turn it off and on again Apr 22 06:39:00 but its not always ... Apr 22 06:39:41 i think its when the other party hangs up before me ... Apr 22 06:39:42 Corsac: that's obviously a bug in locally stored pickles for GPS (basically the last location with a real fix, plus ephem/alm data) Apr 22 06:40:06 and since i am on the road making calls a lot ... Apr 22 06:40:45 yeah, that was my analysis too, I'll try to reproduce using the location tester, but it might be trickier to do so with a location in .eu Apr 22 06:41:21 ghoyou're talking about BT? Apr 22 06:41:26 yes Apr 22 06:41:33 bluetooth ear Apr 22 06:41:56 Gh0sty: BT has nothing to do with who's first to hang up Apr 22 06:42:22 some BT gadgets suffer from a poor implementation Apr 22 06:42:35 also yesterday seen a lot of disconnects over bt while the n900 was in my pocket ... Apr 22 06:43:21 DocScrutinizer: yes i realize that it could be that 30 dollar earphone maybe Apr 22 06:43:30 so your "BT ear"(headset?) obviously has issues Apr 22 06:43:37 any recommendation? Apr 22 06:43:43 get a better one Apr 22 06:43:52 probably need to buy nokia one? Apr 22 06:44:07 better doesn't mean more expensive - just test Apr 22 06:44:20 well, Nokia should be tested :-P Apr 22 06:44:34 lol yeah thats the problem where can you test that Apr 22 06:44:53 mostly plastic blisters ... Apr 22 06:45:40 Gh0sty: iirc there's a page on wiki where compatible tested headsets are listed (community driven) Apr 22 06:45:41 as i said before ... i dont care to spend some money if i get something i know is worth it Apr 22 06:46:04 also my rationalisation for the n900 ... Apr 22 06:46:28 oh cool! did not see that one i'll check Apr 22 06:46:52 oh btw noob question also Apr 22 06:47:14 how do i paste a url in the bookmarks window :p Apr 22 06:47:43 if i select a url in irc i can pick copy Apr 22 06:47:52 but how to paste ... Apr 22 06:47:58 why would you want to do that? anyway ctrl-c/ctrl-v is your friend Apr 22 06:48:12 oh stupid me ... Apr 22 06:48:18 ofcourse Apr 22 06:48:21 quite Apr 22 06:48:50 Gh0sty: see wiki "gestures and shortcuts" Apr 22 06:49:10 anyone know how to make xchat put "nickname:" when i double click on a nick? I remember how to do it for mirc but forgot xchat Apr 22 06:50:10 omg horrible picture Apr 22 06:50:24 a picture of me a friend tool :p Apr 22 06:50:32 took* Apr 22 06:51:05 Gh0sty: greatly change the meaning of your sentence. Apr 22 06:51:17 ? Apr 22 06:52:24 sorry? i am not native english so i dont understand your suggestion or whats wrong with my sentence Apr 22 06:52:32 opdf2: doesn't work. Use 'tab' completion - for this map shift-space to nick-completion in keymappings setiing in xchat Apr 22 06:53:00 DocScrutinizer: shift-space completion? Doesn't sound as good, does it? Apr 22 06:53:17 crashanddie: why? Apr 22 06:53:32 I don't know, just doesn't Apr 22 06:53:40 aah the term Apr 22 06:53:42 yeah Apr 22 06:53:53 DocScrutinizer: ty Apr 22 06:53:57 * noobmonk3y prods frals 0.9.8 OoOOooo :) Apr 22 06:53:59 nevertheless works like a charm Apr 22 06:54:00 shift space is @ isn't it ? Apr 22 06:54:14 nah Apr 22 06:54:31 maybe on macintosh Apr 22 06:54:35 ;-P Apr 22 06:55:44 DocScrutinizer: fuck off :P Apr 22 06:56:08 * rmrfchik want to sync maemo contacts with linux desktop Apr 22 06:56:20 actually I got no idea about where @ is mapped on alien kbd layouts. Just can talk about DE and to a lesser confidence about US Apr 22 06:56:41 Hi! How can I make evince the default pdf reader? Apr 22 06:56:50 * achipa wants world peace (the two are roughly in the same difficulty category :) ) Apr 22 06:56:56 good question Apr 22 06:57:27 * DocScrutinizer seems to recall something about mime types Apr 22 06:57:40 hmm Apr 22 06:57:51 and prolly gconftool (me fights vomiting) Apr 22 06:57:53 morning Apr 22 06:58:32 marmoute: ? Apr 22 06:58:44 DocScrutinizer: shift + 2 on US, shift + (left to enter key) on gb, alt gr + 8 on french, alt gr + 2 on belgian (or maybe I'm confusing french and belgian), shift + (above enter key) on spanish Apr 22 06:59:02 plz correct me in PM i like to learn ... Apr 22 06:59:26 rmrfchik: a bold topic. I came to think it's a simple task to copy over some vcards Apr 22 06:59:52 crashanddie: what combination you want to know in belgian? Apr 22 06:59:59 and rsync two dirs Apr 22 07:00:20 Gh0sty: alt gr + 2 = @? Apr 22 07:00:20 crashanddie: uhmm, alt on N900? Apr 22 07:00:35 DocScrutinizer: nha, just talking about regular keyboards Apr 22 07:01:04 DocScrutinizer: do you have pointers/links regarding my query earlier? Apr 22 07:01:13 crashanddie: yeah, the @_on_ was about N900 xchat though Apr 22 07:01:56 Ebzzry: not anything beyond what I uttered about mimetypes already Apr 22 07:02:37 DocScrutinizer: hmm, ok. Apr 22 07:02:39 crashanddie: or probably was just kidding anyway Apr 22 07:03:11 crashanddie: yes Apr 22 07:03:33 is there btw a way to get alt key inside the shell? Apr 22 07:03:55 Gh0sty: often ESC will do Apr 22 07:04:08 irssi use alt + numbers for switching channels Apr 22 07:04:25 use ESC plus number Apr 22 07:04:34 oh rly Apr 22 07:04:42 heard that Apr 22 07:04:47 yeah rly Apr 22 07:04:47 never used irssi Apr 22 07:05:11 ooh cool! Apr 22 07:05:14 nice Apr 22 07:05:36 works for mc Fn-keys as well Apr 22 07:05:49 yeah well irssi is the ultimate irc client! Apr 22 07:05:58 and in shell, e.g for alt/esc-. Apr 22 07:06:07 well xchat can have the 2nd place Apr 22 07:06:25 yeah ok its just strange its called esc Apr 22 07:06:54 no, it's called ESC because it's ESC Apr 22 07:07:40 already chatting 1h from the n900 now through ssh/screen/irssi to my fixed pc Apr 22 07:07:52 still in bed ... :p Apr 22 07:07:53 also notice ESC is not a qualifier key. Rather it generates a standard key code Apr 22 07:08:28 hm dont know so much specs around keycodes and studd in shells Apr 22 07:08:36 stuff* Apr 22 07:08:59 Gh0sty: basically you don't hold down ESC Apr 22 07:09:12 supposedly weechat is what irssi would have been if it had been planned ahead Apr 22 07:09:23 but from a noob view it might be more logical my idea to have alt too ... Apr 22 07:10:01 yeah, sometimes I miss it as well. Alas there seems no way to add qualifier keys to xterm Apr 22 07:10:14 virtual qualifier keys Apr 22 07:10:25 koala_man: not going to start am irc client shootout ... never even heard about weechat ... Apr 22 07:10:30 lmao http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200903/errord/IMG00049.jpg Apr 22 07:10:33 of course you could massively patch the kbd driver Apr 22 07:10:44 use irssi for ages and know some devs behind it ... Apr 22 07:11:08 dude Apr 22 07:11:09 seriously Apr 22 07:11:11 again? Apr 22 07:11:33 no its for real ... Apr 22 07:11:55 it's fecking Open Source you asswhipe, "knowing a dev behind an Open Source project" is equivalent to using fucking Google Apr 22 07:12:05 lol Apr 22 07:12:21 * DocScrutinizer considers a round of bs bingo Apr 22 07:12:36 if april showers bring may flowers Apr 22 07:12:37 no i sat in his new house yesterday actually drinking a beer Apr 22 07:12:40 what does april snow bring? Apr 22 07:12:47 (it's snowing here) Apr 22 07:13:08 timeless_mbp where are you? Apr 22 07:13:11 ~prod Jaffa Apr 22 07:13:12 timeless_mbp: cold feet Apr 22 07:13:12 * infobot zaps Jaffa with a high voltage cattle prod Apr 22 07:13:16 HEL Apr 22 07:13:16 it's not snowing at the office Apr 22 07:13:19 but nvm ... Apr 22 07:13:34 I think that is sleet, not snow... Apr 22 07:13:54 timeless_mbp, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_COIIFwfBw ? Apr 22 07:13:54 achipa: i think jaffa might be sleeping after driving from stockholm Apr 22 07:13:54 (at least i would) Apr 22 07:13:54 :P Apr 22 07:13:55 dont care if you dont believe me and that was not to brag or anything ... Apr 22 07:14:19 tekojo: there's definitely snow Apr 22 07:14:20 april showers bring may flowers, april snow gives her something to blow? Apr 22 07:14:22 damnit people. where's the upstart package gone? Apr 22 07:14:25 btw you guys know developers behind maemo at nokia? Apr 22 07:14:26 Stskeeps: ah. Right. Oops :) Sorry Mr Chairman ! Apr 22 07:14:39 rain falls straight, this stuff is moving around Apr 22 07:14:51 crashanddie, LOL Apr 22 07:14:53 timeless_mbp: not that? Apr 22 07:14:53 tekojo: the rest of us doesn't have 497 different types of snow with their special names :-P Apr 22 07:14:56 Gh0sty: nah, i don't know any of the people i work with Apr 22 07:15:07 i'm paid to go to work and ignore the hundreds of other people in my building Apr 22 07:15:19 oh you are nokia? Apr 22 07:15:24 lol Apr 22 07:15:27 yes, he's a transformer Apr 22 07:15:30 DocScrutinizer you are missing so much on the snow varieties :) Apr 22 07:15:39 no-one? Apr 22 07:15:54 every morning after huming Lex Nokia Empiricum and taking a shower, he transforms into Nokia Apr 22 07:15:56 well you know a guy under the nickname p2 Apr 22 07:16:10 peter? Apr 22 07:16:15 yes Apr 22 07:16:25 tekojo: it's most definitely snowing Apr 22 07:16:32 he is also a belgian :p Apr 22 07:16:52 well, with that surname it would have to be belgian or dutch Apr 22 07:16:54 Gh0sty: you sure he isn't french? Apr 22 07:17:00 and -again- not to brag ... Apr 22 07:17:06 shit Apr 22 07:17:08 nice game :) Apr 22 07:17:11 no Apr 22 07:17:19 let's try guessing where we are from Apr 22 07:17:22 upstart-job seems to be missing from apt in the newest fiasco image Apr 22 07:17:23 he is dutch Apr 22 07:17:42 so why he is connecting from a french datacentre then? Apr 22 07:17:57 Stskeeps: he ever comes online here? Apr 22 07:18:01 eu makes things possible? :) Apr 22 07:18:03 * DocScrutinizer calls for better S/N in this chan please Apr 22 07:18:04 Gh0sty: don't think so Apr 22 07:18:11 Gh0sty: but then again this channel is big Apr 22 07:18:13 p2 [~p@ns303653.ovh.net] Apr 22 07:18:19 S/N? Apr 22 07:18:20 crashanddie: lol thats logical ... Apr 22 07:18:44 belgium is expensive for everything it Apr 22 07:18:44 Surfa: nha, OVH only accepts payments from France or UK Apr 22 07:18:55 nah Apr 22 07:19:08 crashanddie, no credit cards? or some address checking? Apr 22 07:19:14 i considered some weeks ago to take some server there Apr 22 07:19:25 its europe man Apr 22 07:19:28 Surfa: credit cards don't exist in mainland europe Apr 22 07:19:47 i reconsidered going to take a german one Apr 22 07:19:50 korhojoa: Noise==>> let's try guessing where we are from<< Signal==...errr... wait a minute, I'll find some :-P Apr 22 07:20:01 its better value for the pricde Apr 22 07:20:05 price Apr 22 07:20:22 DocScrutinizer: how about the missing package! Apr 22 07:20:34 upstart? Apr 22 07:20:41 where's it missing from? Apr 22 07:20:48 korhojoa: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0 Apr 22 07:20:49 it's there Apr 22 07:20:49 :P Apr 22 07:20:51 the newest fiasco image Apr 22 07:20:53 anyway gotta get up out of bed Apr 22 07:20:55 Surfa: you're from finland? Apr 22 07:21:01 korhojoa: what newest fiasco image Apr 22 07:21:03 time to go to work Apr 22 07:21:09 korhojoa: I'd be surprised Apr 22 07:21:23 again sorry for my overreaction at start ... Apr 22 07:21:36 well. i flashed my phone yesterday and it doesn't seem to be able to find it Apr 22 07:21:40 how about you stop reminding us? Apr 22 07:21:53 :-P Apr 22 07:21:53 but i will put the developer here later today Apr 22 07:21:59 ok Apr 22 07:22:07 seeya later Apr 22 07:22:53 anyway, I'm off back to the hotel, my work day is over Apr 22 07:22:54 'later Apr 22 07:22:59 crashanddie, yes, but i used to live in germany too.. first thing they offered in local bank was visa credit card there too Apr 22 07:23:32 hm. have to figure this out later Apr 22 07:23:36 it startedmraining Apr 22 07:24:36 Surfa: credit cards? Apr 22 07:24:40 Surfa: or debit cards? Apr 22 07:24:47 ..credit cards definitely Apr 22 07:25:19 Surfa: you can get some credit cards, but they're usually expensive and worthless in Europe -- because the laws don't protect you as much, and the limits on credit are a lot stricter Apr 22 07:25:35 crashanddie: what time zone are you in? Apr 22 07:25:44 timeless_mbp: GMT + 10 Apr 22 07:26:10 crashanddie, where on earth do you live? I have friends living in netherlands and uk and they have just as real credit cards as i do Apr 22 07:26:13 ending work at half past midnight.. tsk Apr 22 07:26:15 also in spain Apr 22 07:26:43 ..and germany, even that germand don't use them much.. mostly maestro cards Apr 22 07:26:43 in Belgium, France, Spain, Netherlands, Germany and Italy you'll only get a credit card if you either request it, look like an idiot, or take a premier-level account out Apr 22 07:27:14 crashanddie: well, sure, in the states you get credit cards just walking down the street Apr 22 07:27:15 not my experiences exactly Apr 22 07:27:18 Surfa: UK is fully credit card, completely agreed, but not the rest of europe Apr 22 07:27:24 and they're doing that in HEL too these days Apr 22 07:27:32 timeless_mbp: same in the UK really Apr 22 07:27:49 Surfa: note that we're talking about how you them, not who uses them or when :) Apr 22 07:27:57 deutsche bank offered me free of charged credit card as a first thing Apr 22 07:28:10 s/charged/charge/ Apr 22 07:28:27 timeless_mbp, i know Apr 22 07:29:15 but anyhow it hasn't been that difficult in germany either.. and somehow people i know have managed to get cards in other european countries too, so it can't be really that difficult Apr 22 07:30:12 uptime 72h, think I need a nap Apr 22 07:31:57 Surfa: what do you call a credit card, exactly? Apr 22 07:32:42 timeless_mbp: it's 5:30PM, not midnight Apr 22 07:32:56 oh +. not - Apr 22 07:33:04 you ended up in .au? Apr 22 07:33:12 yeah, but leaving end of next week Apr 22 07:33:16 I resigned from AI Apr 22 07:33:33 sorry, won't be able to give you free card readers anymore :P Apr 22 07:33:39 it's ok Apr 22 07:33:50 i still need to make use of the one you gave me :) Apr 22 07:33:57 heh Apr 22 07:34:07 once my visa is renewed i'll apply for a finnish id Apr 22 07:34:12 which i'm told includes a chip Apr 22 07:34:17 Though I loaded up on the goodies before leaving :P I still have a passport scanner that they forgot to request :P Apr 22 07:34:29 That's at least 5k on ebay :D Apr 22 07:34:41 next up, crashanddie getting arrested as "ID copying mastermind" Apr 22 07:34:42 :P Apr 22 07:34:58 speaking of PKI Apr 22 07:35:17 timeless_mbp: can we pick this up when I'm back at the hotel? The bunker is shutting down :P Apr 22 07:35:19 do you know much about why someone would use 'iPass' in a corporate env? Apr 22 07:35:28 yeah, just a question to think about Apr 22 07:35:38 i'm basically wondering why Windows/OS X crypto support is insufficient Apr 22 07:35:42 i don't need the answer now Apr 22 07:35:48 * timeless_mbp needs to visit work Apr 22 07:35:53 timeless_mbp: which iPass? Apr 22 07:35:56 wtf Apr 22 07:36:07 anyway, 'later Apr 22 07:38:14 crashanddie, card that contains certain amount of limit and you can pay back e.g. 3% per month Apr 22 07:38:49 i somehow habe been in such belief that it's a definition of a credit card Apr 22 07:39:06 depends from country to country Apr 22 07:39:30 in .dk, our so called credit cards are linked straight to a bank account and dragged from there Apr 22 07:40:14 when there's no cash aviable/overdraft without agreement, the bank shouts at you to correct it and if you don't, block the card Apr 22 07:40:17 :P Apr 22 07:40:23 Stskeeps, it's called debit, not credit Apr 22 07:40:37 Surfa: yes, i know that from crashanddie Apr 22 07:40:49 except that in .dk, that's what we call credit cards :P Apr 22 07:41:09 debit cards are ones that are only usable with a direct connection to the bank Apr 22 07:41:15 ie, visa electron, etc Apr 22 07:41:17 excellent Apr 22 07:42:11 so it just makes things a bit confusing :) Apr 22 07:43:27 god just took a web form consisting of ~100 questions and i swear it was in reality 10 different questions with different wording repeated Apr 22 07:43:44 frals: we had a questionaire in our comp.sci dept for students Apr 22 07:44:03 frals: most of them seemed to be oriented around "do you have aspergers syndrome" or hinting at it Apr 22 07:44:06 :P Apr 22 07:44:19 frals: was it the N900 survey? Apr 22 07:44:27 koala_man: hehe, no Apr 22 07:44:45 Stskeeps: yeah, this was pretty much "are you a psychopath".. thats the feeling i got anyway :P Apr 22 07:45:21 did you just skip it and write "I am not a psycho!!" in blood on the back? Apr 22 07:45:38 someone else's blood, too Apr 22 07:45:38 :P Apr 22 07:45:49 :D Apr 22 07:47:30 Hello, what is the ideal resolution of video for N900? Apr 22 07:47:47 <=800x480 Apr 22 07:47:58 thanks Apr 22 07:51:33 can you do a apt-get upgrade on the n900? getting tired of clicking each every update and waiting it to update Apr 22 07:54:48 it tells me i don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/ when i try to apt-get upgrade Apr 22 07:54:54 whats up with that? ran it as root Apr 22 07:55:24 viliny: sure. well it caches the packages there Apr 22 07:58:30 Why is the space not sufficient? Apr 22 07:58:47 I have loads of free space on the drive Apr 22 07:58:59 the updates amount to 30mb at this point Apr 22 08:02:09 viliny: that's the reason why you should not apt-get upgrade Apr 22 08:02:33 for what #maemo told me, it could fill the rootfs (and brick the tablet, btw) Apr 22 08:03:41 LuciusMare: roger, thats not so good... would have been convenient and much faster than the old click and upgrade but oh well... Apr 22 08:03:49 only did it this first time though Apr 22 08:04:42 Yes, I also hate that it updates everytime :) Apr 22 08:04:42 viliny, what i did to free space was to delete extra repositories. you can add them back later. Apr 22 08:05:07 run "df -h /var/cache/apt/archives" Apr 22 08:05:14 and post here the output Apr 22 08:05:18 mine? Apr 22 08:05:58 yes :D Apr 22 08:06:41 Nokia-N900-51-1:~# df -h /var/cache/apt/archives Apr 22 08:06:41 Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on Apr 22 08:06:41 rootfs 227.8M 209.0M 14.6M 93% / Apr 22 08:06:41 Nokia-N900-51-1:~# Apr 22 08:07:20 I recommend you optifying the /var/cache/apt/archives Apr 22 08:07:49 viliny: theres a script in the wiki that will solve this automagically Apr 22 08:08:06 valdyn: have it store that data elsewhere? Apr 22 08:08:11 optifying? Apr 22 08:08:18 mv /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives && ln -s /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives Apr 22 08:08:18 viliny: yes Apr 22 08:08:48 good evening Apr 22 08:08:49 viliny: not just /var/cache/apt/archives, few more things, im only using it, I didnt even read it Apr 22 08:08:59 have you got the link? Apr 22 08:09:46 LuciusMare: what does ln -s do again? Apr 22 08:10:12 it moves the data elsewhere and then links the old folder to the moved one? correct? Apr 22 08:10:30 viliny: http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Apr 22 08:10:44 viliny: ln -s makes a symlink Apr 22 08:11:05 oh yeah, use the script valdyn sent you Apr 22 08:11:12 LuciusMare: yeah ok - will this be a problem when i upgrade to say... pr 1.2 etc? Apr 22 08:11:25 viliny: i dont think we can know that Apr 22 08:11:41 but not likely Apr 22 08:11:47 you suggest i do apt-get install pymaemo-optify Apr 22 08:11:47 ? Apr 22 08:11:53 viliny: likely its fine if you install it ota Apr 22 08:12:00 there is a scruot viliny Apr 22 08:12:05 s/scruot/script/ Apr 22 08:12:06 LuciusMare meant: there is a script viliny Apr 22 08:12:24 viliny: simply because thats how deb packages work, but if you flash then i cant tell obviously Apr 22 08:13:37 i'm left a bit unsure about which part of this i actually want to run Apr 22 08:14:41 X-Fade: will you make a summary of the conclusions or do you want me to do it ? Apr 22 08:14:52 oops, wrong window Apr 22 08:15:21 LuciusMare, valdyn : move to opt sh script? the first part? this is what i want? Apr 22 08:17:44 Nokia-N900-51-1:/home/user# ./move-to-opt.sh Apr 22 08:17:44 -sh: ./move-to-opt.sh: Permission denied Apr 22 08:17:55 chmod +x move-to-opt.sh Apr 22 08:18:08 i did that Apr 22 08:18:14 >:( Apr 22 08:18:24 are you running it as root? Apr 22 08:18:27 yes Apr 22 08:18:33 im root via ssh Apr 22 08:18:36 huh Apr 22 08:18:44 okay, then run the command i posted earlier Apr 22 08:18:50 mv -v /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives && ln -s /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives Apr 22 08:19:14 okay, will do in a moment... but we don't know why the script fails to run? am i missing python here or something? Apr 22 08:19:21 i have no idea Apr 22 08:22:21 mv -v /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives && ln -s /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives Apr 22 08:22:21 mv: invalid option -- v Apr 22 08:23:00 *sigh* Apr 22 08:23:06 okay, leave that -v out Apr 22 08:23:21 i thought that busybox mv has the -v#erbose option Apr 22 08:24:30 okay, it finished... suspension! Apr 22 08:25:12 suspension? Apr 22 08:25:18 oh :) Apr 22 08:25:24 what does the df say now? Apr 22 08:25:35 still tells me 92% is in use... Apr 22 08:25:39 D: Apr 22 08:26:05 viliny: moving archives only avoids apt-get downloading to rootfs Apr 22 08:26:21 viliny: it does not free up space when theres nothing inside Apr 22 08:26:37 well yeah, try the apt-get upgrade now Apr 22 08:26:39 ah sweet :) Apr 22 08:26:46 so im clear to do an apt-get upgrade now? Apr 22 08:26:49 try Apr 22 08:27:19 E: Could not open lock file /var/cache/apt/archives/lock - open (2 No such file or directory) Apr 22 08:27:59 viliny: you should understand what you do Apr 22 08:28:06 viliny: ( before you do it... ) Apr 22 08:28:06 /var/ cache /apt/archives/ lock ? Apr 22 08:28:17 why is the lock file in cache? Apr 22 08:28:35 i told him to do that, it worked for me Apr 22 08:28:46 LuciusMare: he did a mistake copying Apr 22 08:29:03 viliny: ls -ld /var/cache/apt/archives Apr 22 08:29:12 clears link? Apr 22 08:29:26 viliny: no, just shows it Apr 22 08:29:50 ls -ld /var/cache/apt/archives ls: /var/cache/apt/archives: No such file or directory Apr 22 08:29:55 wut Apr 22 08:30:00 ls -la /var/cache/apt Apr 22 08:30:07 viliny: there - fix the link Apr 22 08:30:26 im a little lost here now Apr 22 08:30:27 agh Apr 22 08:30:33 sorry, sorry, my fault Apr 22 08:30:36 viliny: you never created the link Apr 22 08:30:43 i always swap the name of the symlink and the target Apr 22 08:31:07 ln -s /opt/aptarchives /var/cache/apt/archives Apr 22 08:31:28 rm /opt/aptarchives/archives Apr 22 08:31:35 ls -ld /var/cache/apt/archives Apr 22 08:31:36 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 22 11:31 /var/cache/apt/archives -> /opt/aptarchives Apr 22 08:31:50 great Apr 22 08:32:01 rm necessary? Apr 22 08:32:03 viliny: ls -ld /opt/aptarchives should show its a directory now.. Apr 22 08:32:16 not really, it just deletes the broken symlink Apr 22 08:32:31 try the apt-get upgrade now Apr 22 08:32:57 it's doing it :) Apr 22 08:33:04 thanks a lot you both Apr 22 08:33:50 this will save me some time in the future Apr 22 08:33:52 * LuciusMare repeats: "symlink: target, name, target, name..." Apr 22 08:37:55 * LuciusMare wonders... Apr 22 08:38:18 You can't change R&D mode by the N900 itself, right? :) Apr 22 08:38:55 R&D mode? :) Apr 22 08:39:34 Research and development Apr 22 08:39:36 LuciusMare no, the method of doing so was disabled Apr 22 08:39:52 nid0: hm, i thought it was technically impossible Apr 22 08:39:56 why was it disabled? Apr 22 08:40:17 so that people dont think "oo sounds fun", enable it, and fuck their devices, most likely Apr 22 08:40:26 viliny: http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode Apr 22 08:40:41 LuciusMare: you can write something simple with libcal-dev Apr 22 08:40:49 nid0: R&D can fuck the devices? Apr 22 08:40:55 I mean lets face it, prior to it being disabled in 1.1, there were people switching their devices to red pill simply to see the flashy keyboard backlight pattern Apr 22 08:41:02 * N900: The keyboard backlight behind the left and right side of the keyboard flickers in response to system activity. Apr 22 08:41:08 aha, I was wondering what it was :) Apr 22 08:41:43 nid0: it seems harmless, it blinks the keyboard, allows root and changes the behaviour of the power button Apr 22 08:41:52 how is this possible? i just entered gprs settings and connected through gprs, but i am getting speeds of 200+kb/s? Apr 22 08:42:25 unless you enable the flags Apr 22 08:42:34 You've discovered a secret mode in GPRS! Apr 22 08:42:36 crazyhorss: EDGE? Apr 22 08:42:37 :P Apr 22 08:42:44 crazyhorss: edge? Or compression? Apr 22 08:43:01 $4.99 plan Apr 22 08:43:02 +1, everything 3g is treated like gprs Apr 22 08:43:14 Is the little thingy saying 2g? Apr 22 08:43:21 3g Apr 22 08:43:29 then it's on 3g Apr 22 08:43:29 you're connected to 3g Apr 22 08:43:40 that's the acceleration? Apr 22 08:43:42 ^^ Apr 22 08:44:08 oh man, thats epic. Apr 22 08:44:29 Can you get the keyboard flashing backlight with less drastic alteration? Apr 22 08:44:32 3.5 is that 3.5g? Apr 22 08:44:36 yes Apr 22 08:44:43 hahaha Apr 22 08:44:46 sweet Apr 22 08:44:50 crazyhorss: If you see 4, let us know Apr 22 08:44:58 * LuciusMare gets into a space shuttle Apr 22 08:45:39 SpeedEvil: haha Apr 22 08:46:48 so for $5 i get high speed internet on the go.. i can even make an access point Apr 22 08:47:12 this is simply amazing Apr 22 08:47:18 hm, what app would you get on a long, long offline trip? Apr 22 08:47:29 media player Apr 22 08:47:43 crazyhorss: prepaid data plan? Apr 22 08:47:47 $5 for how much data though? Apr 22 08:48:07 I pay around that per month prepaid for 6 months for 1G Apr 22 08:48:09 Corsac: hah Apr 22 08:48:12 /mo Apr 22 08:48:24 unlimited... i think Apr 22 08:48:33 check your terms and conditions Apr 22 08:48:57 which data plan is that? :) Apr 22 08:49:16 an old gprs plan Apr 22 08:49:30 from like 2004 Apr 22 08:49:49 RST38h, how do i disable the beep/vibrate on xchat Apr 22 08:50:14 lcuk: it's in notifications - in opetions - I thinkthe firtst one Apr 22 08:50:16 we thought aliens had landed last night when someone pinged me in middle of night Apr 22 08:50:43 tzones Apr 22 08:51:43 lcuk: /notify something, a moment Apr 22 08:51:47 on alerts tab i have "blink tray icon and blink task bar" Apr 22 08:52:16 i wasnt aware blink meant "shake whole house like lkaijilakliaklaikli exploded" Apr 22 08:53:07 lcuk: lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38927&highlight=notify+plugin&page=4 #33 Apr 22 08:53:41 * viliny finished apt-get upgrading his phone \o/ Apr 22 08:54:13 thanks RST38h Apr 22 08:54:18 do those options persist Apr 22 08:54:22 or do i have to save each time Apr 22 08:55:17 whaat Apr 22 08:55:24 no console nethack in repos? Apr 22 08:56:00 LuciusMare: I've got it installed from somewhere - I forget where Apr 22 08:57:59 LuciusMare: i have nethack in repos Apr 22 08:58:15 viliny: the console one? Apr 22 08:58:23 i also have vultures eye but i can't for the love of god figure out how to navigate the levels and open doors or anything Apr 22 08:58:26 console one Apr 22 08:58:34 LuciusMare: i haven't installed nethack i just saw it there Apr 22 08:59:17 hm Apr 22 08:59:20 i have only vultures Apr 22 09:00:27 nethack-console Apr 22 09:00:33 apt-get install nethack-console Apr 22 09:01:24 couldnt find package nethack-console Apr 22 09:04:32 Morning, all Apr 22 09:04:37 achipa: pong Apr 22 09:04:40 o/ Jaffa Apr 22 09:04:42 morning jaffa \o Apr 22 09:04:45 nice to see you got home in one piece Apr 22 09:04:47 home at last? :D Apr 22 09:04:51 Jaffa: mornin Apr 22 09:04:52 frals: Not so the car :-( Apr 22 09:04:57 ----------------------------- Apr 22 09:05:05 lcuk: indeed Apr 22 09:05:05 :(( Apr 22 09:05:06 watch out jaffa! another barrier!!! Apr 22 09:05:12 lcuk: haha Apr 22 09:05:32 i bet you just deflated at that point :( Apr 22 09:05:49 Jaffa's world travel? Apr 22 09:06:17 jaffa tried fistbumping the uk - it mishit and slapped him in the face Apr 22 09:06:25 lcuk: it was one of those retractable floor ones, and a car was there as I approached. So I didn't see it go back up. The arm barrier (like you'd get at a car park) is stuck up and blocks the view of the traffic light. Finally, the guy in the booth said hello by saying "alright mate"; which I took as a sign to keep going (as the visible barrier was still up) Apr 22 09:07:18 :( Apr 22 09:08:37 Jaffa, what time did you eventually get back then? Apr 22 09:09:03 lcuk: 22:30. Apr 22 09:09:29 lcuk: When we got off the ferry at 13:30, I was hopeful for being home by about 16:30; and seeing Mrs Jaffa and the Jafflets Apr 22 09:10:46 bloody nora! did you actually facepalm when it happened Apr 22 09:11:28 lcukn900, ping Apr 22 09:11:31 lcukn900, ping Apr 22 09:12:22 lcuk: ping? Apr 22 09:12:31 lcukn900, ping Apr 22 09:12:44 LuciusMare|away, just making sure xchat doesnt wake me up again Apr 22 09:13:21 lcukn900, ping Apr 22 09:13:31 ok :) works now Apr 22 09:13:34 sorry for noise Apr 22 09:13:51 * frals slaps lcuk with a bunch of bacon Apr 22 09:14:13 frals, a bunch of bacon roughly == a pig Apr 22 09:15:35 i'd rather call it a meal Apr 22 09:15:57 Hey, Mugen shipped me a replacement cover today Apr 22 09:16:00 two in fact Apr 22 09:16:08 inz he would have to slap you with bread roll and tomato sauce too Apr 22 09:16:09 lcuk: Swore. Loudly. Apr 22 09:16:19 I guess I'll get them next week Apr 22 09:16:21 ShadowJK: could i get a link to your script for battery monitoring again? i seem to have misplaced it Apr 22 09:16:42 lcuk, they would be nice, sure, but not necessary =) Apr 22 09:16:47 http://enivax.net/jk/n900/bq.tar Apr 22 09:17:03 thanks :) Apr 22 09:17:26 frals, I leave for work in an hour, so ask all the questions before that :) Apr 22 09:18:11 ShadowJK: do i need to change anything or just chuck it on device and run it as root? Apr 22 09:19:02 untar it, there's two files bq27200.sh and i2cget, they need to be in same directory and +x. Then run it ./bq27200.sh as root Apr 22 09:19:18 Actually i2cget needs to be in the current directory.. Apr 22 09:19:39 For power use monitoring, ./bq27200.sh 5 Apr 22 09:19:41 is the most useful Apr 22 09:19:48 ShadowJK: ty :)) Apr 22 09:20:14 The chip itself updates measurements every 5.12 seconds Apr 22 09:21:12 For short term monitoring, the "mA" column is the 5.12 second average consumption (if negative) or charge (if positive) Apr 22 09:21:33 For long term monitoring I'd compare the "NAC" column.. Nominal Available Capacity Apr 22 09:22:32 The default calibration inside the chip is a bit off for capacity-tracking, empty happens somewhere between 700-1000 if the chip hasn't recalibrated itself at some point Apr 22 09:26:30 ShadowJK: have you ever seen it recal? Apr 22 09:26:35 yes Apr 22 09:26:54 with the stock bat? Apr 22 09:26:59 Yeah that too Apr 22 09:27:27 bastard, fmms bug i just got was 10001 Apr 22 09:27:30 bug #10000 Apr 22 09:27:32 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10000 Overwriting of devices in PAIRED DEVICES LIST Apr 22 09:27:33 You actually need it to recalibrate twice for the stock batt, because the default value is so far from the actual value that it refuses to believe it Apr 22 09:28:09 ShadowJK: how did you recal? just using it moderately till it shutoff won't for me Apr 22 09:28:28 lol frals Apr 22 09:28:33 bug 10001 Apr 22 09:28:33 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10001 Sharing plugin doesn't work Apr 22 09:29:00 So it needs to sit below EDV1 voltage (3248mV) for a few seconds, but above 3200mV (shutdown, and shutdown makes consumption go to zero which makes voltage bounce up above EDV1 threshold) Apr 22 09:29:34 frals: - err - shouldn't that remain an open bug? Apr 22 09:29:36 bug 9999 Apr 22 09:29:37 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9999 Tap & Hold menu disappears before an item can be selected Apr 22 09:29:50 So as I approached 3200mV I gradually reduced the power consumption on my N900 by first disconnecting internet, then putting it entirely offline, and then when it got even closer, I dropped backlight level, but kept the backlight on Apr 22 09:29:54 frals: I mean - it can be fixed - it's just you can't Apr 22 09:30:09 SpeedEvil: i think it have to be moved to a different product then Apr 22 09:30:16 and monitored the output.. after seeing 1 in the EDV1 column for a few lines, I put it on charger, and it had relearned capacity Apr 22 09:30:17 ah Apr 22 09:30:30 I've never had edv1 1 Apr 22 09:30:37 At that low voltage any load variations causes relatively large variations in voltage :/ Apr 22 09:30:47 SpeedEvil: and im certain that it's a wontfix for nokia as well ;) Apr 22 09:30:54 Also VDQ needs to be 1 Apr 22 09:30:57 yeah Apr 22 09:31:59 actually I think it's enough if you see EDV1=1 once, but voltage needs to stay consistently below 3248 for a few seconds for EDV1 to be raised.. Apr 22 09:33:53 ShadowJK: Overclocking? Apr 22 09:34:15 no Apr 22 09:34:37 "The bqJUNIOR EDV detection is designed to prevent premature detection of the EDV thresholds due to dynamic load variations. EDV detection has a dynamically adjusted delay of up to 21.5 s with RSOC ≥ 6% and down to 3 s when RSOC = 0%" Apr 22 09:35:00 So yeah, 21.5sec below 3248 and above 3200.. and N900 shuts down faster than 21.5secs ;) Apr 22 09:37:10 anyone had "mobile hotspot" app working on the n900 ? Apr 22 09:42:24 ShadowJK: yeah - I have only ever seen 3248 once in about 8 discharges Apr 22 09:42:35 18:08 3248 38 38 -302 503 503 503 65535 100 303 0 Apr 22 09:43:03 I think that was immediately after teh low-voltage alarm had triggered, and it was doing the actual shutdown - hence the high current Apr 22 09:52:25 frals: Apr 22 09:52:27 ? Apr 22 09:54:36 :q Apr 22 09:55:13 k Apr 22 09:55:34 nvm, testing Apr 22 10:05:01 frals, !!! bug Apr 22 10:05:10 odd one too Apr 22 10:05:19 sup? Apr 22 10:05:46 had first level configuration dialog up (asking for phone number etc) Apr 22 10:05:48 revd mms Apr 22 10:05:59 and clicked the yellow note Apr 22 10:05:59 SpeedEvil, I think I was cruising at about 80mA discharge near 3300 :) Apr 22 10:06:15 so now mms is shown fullpage Apr 22 10:06:15 but unclickable Apr 22 10:06:22 panning back to the dashboard Apr 22 10:06:28 i can see the dialog over the top Apr 22 10:06:35 but focusing back on it shows me mms pic Apr 22 10:06:49 hmm Apr 22 10:07:03 its curious - i think i can just click back on the mms itself Apr 22 10:07:20 not crashed or anything, just bizarre effect Apr 22 10:07:30 oof i cant click back Apr 22 10:07:59 i think gtk got confused which window is on top between the dialog and the stackablewindow which shows the mms Apr 22 10:08:06 yeah Apr 22 10:08:14 and the back arrow is also unfunctional Apr 22 10:08:16 and dialog grabs input but is not in its loop anymore so it doesnt destroy Apr 22 10:08:41 yup Apr 22 10:08:58 ill see what can be done about it Apr 22 10:09:21 i dont know if anything simple can - was just a heads up :) if you can tho it will be good Apr 22 10:09:50 i think it require a bit of state tracking thru the app, not whats available from gtk in that regard Apr 22 10:10:01 cheers for telling me about it will keep it in mind Apr 22 10:10:26 * lcuk nods Apr 22 10:10:37 not sure whats* Apr 22 10:11:39 wonder how the hell you debug a sharing service not showing up in "Sharing services" dialog Apr 22 10:12:10 ie https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10001#c2 Apr 22 10:12:11 Bug 10001: Sharing plugin doesn't work Apr 22 10:15:02 hmm i downlowded w widget but when i go to add widget it don't appear in the list, how the hell do i add it? Apr 22 10:18:21 frals: what would be nice was fmms intergrated into the n900 txt app ;) Apr 22 10:21:32 paul_____, it is nice that we have fmms at all! Apr 22 10:21:52 of course, i'm greatfull i would be lost with out it!!!! but would be nice Apr 22 10:21:56 maybe a idea for the furture ;) Apr 22 10:23:48 hello people Apr 22 10:24:27 hello hello Apr 22 10:24:40 paul_____, can you get rid of all your extra ___ please too, i can also see fmms integrating with conversations, but that is much more than getting the fundimentals working Apr 22 10:25:15 i was trying but the connection hadn't died :p Apr 22 10:25:36 I know lcuk chill !!!! just a idea i would like ;) Apr 22 10:25:56 least frals has saved the day unlike nokia!!! Apr 22 10:26:00 Why not use nickserv to ghost your nick? (assuming you've registered your nickname) Apr 22 10:26:11 nar not registered :) Apr 22 10:26:16 otherwise i would have Apr 22 10:26:34 firestorm_, who says nokia arent helping - fmms is a team effort with frals at the helm Apr 22 10:26:48 haha nokia help don't be stupid!!! Apr 22 10:26:54 yes, im getting plenty of help from nokia Apr 22 10:27:06 coudln't even get ovi updated intime for release of the phone Apr 22 10:27:16 which was really annoying :( Apr 22 10:27:43 firestorm_, you misinterpret intent with complexity Apr 22 10:28:23 lol no i understand mate, just a flagship phone and not even using there latest software. Apr 22 10:28:46 it's like microsoft releasing ie 8 but don't work on windows 7. Apr 22 10:29:01 firestorm_: there are many things which can be told about nokia and how badly they work. Apr 22 10:29:20 firestorm_, its a completely different os Apr 22 10:29:21 oh of course hrw but isn't that like any company, all had bad points :) Apr 22 10:29:24 firestorm_: none of Ovi services works out-of-box Apr 22 10:29:42 wasn't ovi for tne 97? Apr 22 10:29:51 isn't that running the same os as n900? Apr 22 10:30:00 firestorm_: no, ovi.com is what I talk about Apr 22 10:30:03 i wish! symbian != linux Apr 22 10:30:05 firestorm_: only n900 runs maemo Apr 22 10:30:15 ah lol i'll shut up and go to lunch then Apr 22 10:30:25 sorry i assumed it was the same !!!!! Apr 22 10:30:32 np Apr 22 10:30:33 * firestorm_ sits in his corner and carrys on playing with fmms Apr 22 10:32:34 :( Apr 22 10:33:14 what did the n97 run then? Apr 22 10:34:05 hey all Apr 22 10:40:17 hmm Apr 22 10:40:23 this is slightly worrying Apr 22 10:40:23 Daemon running. Samples: 116 Min: -71 Max: -8 Avg: -16.2155172414 Apr 22 10:40:24 Daemon NOT running. Samples: 117 Min: -41 Max: -8 Avg: -13.6581196581 Apr 22 10:40:43 avg mA drain over 10min recorded with ShadowJKs script Apr 22 10:41:26 ~curse ltrace for not handling .py Apr 22 10:41:27 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ltrace for not handling .py ! Apr 22 10:41:35 frals: Wakeups? Apr 22 10:42:02 X-Fade: ye must be, but strace shows nothing at all so must be something else, no clue what though Apr 22 10:42:18 frals: What is the benefit of having it running? Apr 22 10:42:25 having what running? Apr 22 10:42:29 The first time it start automatically? Apr 22 10:42:41 Why not just close it after you are done? Apr 22 10:42:54 X-Fade: basically to make sure it gets the SMS Push properly, because there is a slight chance it might not start in time otherwise Apr 22 10:42:58 It is not like you receive hundreds of messages a day? Apr 22 10:43:21 true, i'm going to experiment with having it die after its done processing instead Apr 22 10:43:46 wonder if theres a setting for dbus on how long to wait for a service to start Apr 22 10:43:46 If your device is busy, it won't get the push sms anyway? Apr 22 10:44:03 hiya X-Fade \o Apr 22 10:44:11 the push sms gets through but my service might not start in time for dbus to send it a long (afaiu) Apr 22 10:44:54 But you just register to listen to the dbus event, right? Apr 22 10:45:04 yeah Apr 22 10:45:09 Doesn't that know to start the script then? Apr 22 10:45:33 exit Apr 22 10:45:54 it does, but it seems that if it takes to long to start the script it just sends the dbus event and then my script hasnt registered to listen to the event yet Apr 22 10:46:09 frals: C :) Apr 22 10:46:17 bah! ;) Apr 22 10:46:39 frals: Does your script use the python speedup thingie? Apr 22 10:46:52 launcher Apr 22 10:46:56 X-Fade: python speedup thingie? O_o Apr 22 10:48:33 Yeah, pylauncher or something like that. Not sure if there was something for Maemo 5 though. Apr 22 10:49:39 X-Fade: i will look in to it, thanks! Apr 22 10:50:45 frals: But yes, if the script takes 10 secs to start, it might be killed. Apr 22 10:51:57 http://pylauncher.garage.maemo.org/ Apr 22 10:52:15 yeah seems not updated recently, going through the code to see what it does Apr 22 10:52:52 Not sure if there is something in pymaemo doing that now. Apr 22 10:53:30 frals is this investigation something we could start a tmo thread about Apr 22 10:53:38 get community investigating it Apr 22 10:53:45 Basically by forking a process where all libs are already loaded speeds things up. Apr 22 10:53:49 lcuk: probably, it seems like it could benefit all python gtk apps Apr 22 10:53:51 * lcuk nods Apr 22 10:55:15 frals: But does the fetch part really need all these heavy parts? Apr 22 10:55:30 frals: Doesn't need a gui? Apr 22 10:55:51 X-Fade: it doesnt, i think i've been sloppy with some imports which should make it work just fine if removed Apr 22 10:56:18 It can just signal the gui part but run itself as a lightweight script. Apr 22 10:56:55 there is a 4 pixel wide spider on this n900 screen Apr 22 10:57:02 yes it what it does, but it imports my controller which imports gtk (due to having some gtk.style related functions), ill move the gtk import away and see how it works Apr 22 10:57:17 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=622298#post622298 Apr 22 10:57:23 X-Fade, frals ^ Apr 22 10:59:16 Yes, let's see. I don't use python myself, but starting a python app seems rather expensive. Apr 22 11:01:39 is such a brainstorming session worthy of being tweeted and retweeted and stuff to try to get as many eyes as possible on it? Apr 22 11:02:04 Btw, would precompiling help in speedup? Apr 22 11:02:19 yes more than likely Apr 22 11:02:54 in the same way google do with the JS code (reduce variables to 1/2 char etc) anything which eases the job of the end machine Apr 22 11:03:21 but should really be discussing on the thread Apr 22 11:04:43 Ok, time to get some lunch :) Apr 22 11:05:02 right fixed the gtk import now anyway so the daemon doesnt import it, not sure about startup time but its taking 13MB less in memory :P Apr 22 11:05:24 now to make sure shit still works... ;) Apr 22 11:06:16 what are you building frals? Apr 22 11:06:29 fmms! Apr 22 11:07:26 ok :) i have it installed but i don't know anyone who uses mms Apr 22 11:07:43 might be the case for the finns who designed the n900 as well, not that used here Apr 22 11:36:06 ppl, that preloading thingie is a two edged sword - once we start preloading pygtk, pyside, pyqt and whatnot, we'll be all over the flash even before the first widget... Apr 22 11:37:17 achipa: But it will be only once ;) Apr 22 11:38:40 n900fly? Apr 22 11:38:45 =) Apr 22 11:38:48 achipa, mention it in the brainstorming Apr 22 11:38:57 :) otherwise it will be lost Apr 22 11:39:11 wonder how much money was lost with that one Apr 22 11:39:13 on talk ? or the 'real' brainstorm ? Apr 22 11:39:43 measure how high you can throw your n900 Apr 22 11:39:46 haha Apr 22 11:39:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50737 Apr 22 11:39:55 achipa, ^ Apr 22 11:40:02 its an open discussion now Apr 22 11:40:18 lcuk: seems to me I already added this thought there :D Apr 22 11:40:19 not worrying about voting or anything :) Apr 22 11:40:20 Macer, i have wondered how that works. Does it need some kind of trampoline Apr 22 11:40:35 Macer, 3.51m Apr 22 11:40:50 Anss|: honestly not going to even install it Apr 22 11:40:51 personal record whilst n900 was wrapped inside rolled up sleeping bag Apr 22 11:41:05 lcuk: hahahaha Apr 22 11:41:20 surrounded by bubble wrap? Apr 22 11:41:30 no the sleeping bag is perfect lol Apr 22 11:41:36 i only did that when i kept banging it.. Apr 22 11:41:39 .. on the ceiling Apr 22 11:45:08 anyone know the status of unladen-swallow ? Apr 22 11:45:14 (while we are python performance) Apr 22 11:45:50 lcuk, sleeping bag sounds little bit of cheating ;) Apr 22 11:45:51 (though that is prolly 2.6 at best, so tough luck Fremantle) Apr 22 11:46:22 er Apr 22 11:46:25 Anss|, i am strongly in favour of keeping my n900 usable Apr 22 11:46:31 sure does Apr 22 11:46:59 lcuk: but the fear is half the fun Apr 22 11:47:21 it wasnt the fear Apr 22 11:47:23 like the highwire... nobody cares if there are nets Apr 22 11:47:32 it wasnt my house so i would wreck the plasterboard on the ceiling Apr 22 11:47:49 it made a heck of a noise when it banged the first time Apr 22 11:50:42 hmhm, do we know what's holding PR1.2 btw? is it the switch to lenny in SDK + dpkg-shlibdeps with symbol files? Apr 22 11:51:11 Corsac: That was done by the maemo.org community; Nokia/PR1.2 aren't involved. Apr 22 11:51:31 mh ok Apr 22 11:52:12 Jaffa: SDK team was involved it sounded like Apr 22 11:52:20 not PR1.2 though Apr 22 11:53:02 Corsac: The PR1.2 SDK won't have squeeze devkits, totally unrelated. Apr 22 11:54:09 Corsac: whats holding? internal nokia team is holding Apr 22 11:54:53 jaffa do you have any observations you found about making python faster that you could share? i know you have lots of experience with it http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50737 Apr 22 11:55:13 hrw: that's a who, not a what, nor a why :) Apr 22 11:55:20 Hmm, how is it going for an app for MMS ? Apr 22 11:55:48 Corsac: I am free to think about 'internal nokia team' as what not who Apr 22 11:55:51 bb in few Apr 22 11:56:31 lcuk: will look later Apr 22 11:56:37 k :) Apr 22 12:00:34 re Apr 22 12:03:41 * Noobmonk3y waves Apr 22 12:03:46 * nid0 nods Apr 22 12:03:54 * Noobmonk3y blinks Apr 22 12:04:01 * nid0 groans in pain Apr 22 12:04:04 awwwwwww Apr 22 12:04:14 long day? Apr 22 12:04:17 * Termana hits you both over the head with a 2 x 4 Apr 22 12:04:23 wohoooooooo Apr 22 12:04:25 more that I buggered up my back last night Apr 22 12:04:32 pulled a muscle in my back next to my spine Apr 22 12:04:39 been in agonising pain since Apr 22 12:04:40 lol was she worth it? Apr 22 12:04:49 sadly, I was just playing badminton Apr 22 12:05:05 hehehe Apr 22 12:05:12 I just play bad, no mint on Apr 22 12:05:20 :) Apr 22 12:05:45 woooop to healthcheck, was just shy of 4000 downloads a few days ago! :) Apr 22 12:05:58 whens new version hitting testing :P Apr 22 12:06:57 how hard is it to create apps for the N900? Apr 22 12:07:10 im ranging from complete newbie to moderate php programmer :/ Apr 22 12:07:18 its a piece of cake, if you know how to code Apr 22 12:07:25 whats the language? Apr 22 12:07:39 python's probably going to be the most straightforward Apr 22 12:07:47 i need to get on that then Apr 22 12:07:53 lol nid0, after 1.2 i think Apr 22 12:07:53 thanks nid0 Apr 22 12:08:05 viliny, easy! Apr 22 12:08:27 if you're a moderate php coder, picking up python shouldnt be much of a struggle Apr 22 12:08:56 is python cross platform like as... i can make something in python and expect all osses to be able to execute it? Apr 22 12:09:21 viliny: basically yes Apr 22 12:09:22 pretty much Apr 22 12:09:32 it requires client installations, though? Apr 22 12:09:33 the problem with python is that it isn't always backwards compatible (in some cases) Apr 22 12:09:51 but it rocks Apr 22 12:09:56 soracle: maemo has 2.5 so not such problem now Apr 22 12:10:05 (and kicks perls ass anyday) Apr 22 12:10:38 has anyone tried xfce in easy debian? Apr 22 12:11:14 PhonicUK: it comes with lxde? Apr 22 12:11:25 ? Apr 22 12:11:30 lxde != xfce? Apr 22 12:12:02 anybody know how to stop my n900 setting my skype "real name" to my skype username? Apr 22 12:12:16 ok, it does come with lxde in which case i haven't tested xfce on other than ubuntu desktop so far. Sorry for wasting your time Apr 22 12:12:34 yah it comes with lxde Apr 22 12:12:34 (it is a source of confusion to my not-really-computer-people parents) Apr 22 12:13:11 BCMM: report bug in bugs.maemo.org Apr 22 12:13:33 hrw: are you sure it isn't just that i've failed to find the option to set it to what i want? Apr 22 12:13:37 BCMM: but then nokia will mark it as WONTFIX probably Apr 22 12:13:44 hrw: why? Apr 22 12:13:57 I do not use skype too much so did not noticed problems yet Apr 22 12:14:12 BCMM: thats my feeling on maemo bugs Apr 22 12:14:19 bb in few Apr 22 12:14:57 BCMM: well, it's a bug, report it :) Apr 22 12:15:08 oh god, just found the option and feel kinda stupid Apr 22 12:15:30 they call it "screen name", which i presumed meant username because i've used some IM software that used it that way Apr 22 12:15:59 heh Apr 22 12:16:29 i also found "only allow im from contacts i have in my list" to be a good thing to check - since i don't appreciate horny single wives or viagra peddles sending me 5 messages every 3 hours Apr 22 12:17:49 everybody loves horny single wives Apr 22 12:18:39 hi everybody! i experience problems with modest+imap and *lots* of folders Apr 22 12:18:59 a single wife is like a pregnant virgin Apr 22 12:19:23 is there a way to unsubscribe imap folders? Apr 22 12:19:39 single wife? Apr 22 12:19:52 wive Apr 22 12:20:18 wave ? Apr 22 12:20:19 wives, wife? Apr 22 12:20:25 who? :) Apr 22 12:20:49 Skype spam Anss| :) Apr 22 12:21:43 can python produce executable binaries for win32? Apr 22 12:23:45 viliny, it can produce compiled objects (.pyc) but no executables afaik Apr 22 12:24:29 you probably need to add shebang :) Apr 22 12:25:02 http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/22/nokia-delays-symbian-3-investors-not-impressed/ Apr 22 12:25:19 s/symbian-3/pr1.2/ Apr 22 12:25:30 :) Apr 22 12:25:34 so.. Apr 22 12:25:39 an update on browser memory usage Apr 22 12:25:59 it seems there's a non browser team addon which actively leaks memory each time we click on links Apr 22 12:26:15 which partially explains why the perf team kept telling us that our browser was leaking... Apr 22 12:26:46 hehe Apr 22 12:26:46 (and probably also explains why each time we upgraded, and thus broke the addon for a few weeks, our memory usage temporarily improved) Apr 22 12:27:14 Woo! Apr 22 12:27:16 hehe Apr 22 12:27:22 interesting Apr 22 12:27:25 So you've now unbroken your wookie? Apr 22 12:27:30 timeless_mbp: did this plugin contain the letters O V and I? Apr 22 12:27:37 haha Apr 22 12:27:53 void? Apr 22 12:28:28 must be Apr 22 12:28:36 Will http://sourceforge.net/projects/python-mms/files/ work on n900 ? Apr 22 12:29:06 * SpeedEvil suspects someone here will know. Apr 22 12:29:11 * SpeedEvil looks at frals. Apr 22 12:29:16 :P Apr 22 12:29:23 viliny, though there is python distutils which might do the exe for you (py2exe). Apr 22 12:29:34 Brokkoly: more or less. you might want to check out fMMS Apr 22 12:29:47 fMMS <-- the name of the app? Apr 22 12:29:54 yepp Apr 22 12:29:59 Ok will check. Apr 22 12:34:07 Stskeeps: ooh, it does, how'd you guess? Apr 22 12:34:32 timeless_mbp: because i suspect those people are sniffing way too much cocaine Apr 22 12:34:33 :P Apr 22 12:35:42 frade oh, hmm I have to be connected to internet to send with fMMS ? Apr 22 12:36:00 SIP client suddenly went crazy. Stopped connecting, i ran wireshark and it shows that it sends ssdp m-search broadcast and returns connection error immediately after Apr 22 12:36:13 Brokkoly: yes Apr 22 12:36:20 Jaffa: hey, how do we post to the council blog ? or did I manage to miss that info, too ? Apr 22 12:36:24 Oh, bad :/ Apr 22 12:36:39 Brokkoly: how do you suggest sending otherwise? Apr 22 12:37:05 achipa: Go to http://maemo.org/community/council/; log in if you haven't already; and do Page/Folder > New item... (in the Midgard toolbar) Apr 22 12:37:34 frals with the operator you got in the phone, like on the other phones, or how is that working? Apr 22 12:37:50 Brokkoly: it works the same as in fMMS Apr 22 12:37:52 through internet Apr 22 12:38:04 timeless_mbp: does disable in add-ons actually work? Apr 22 12:38:05 * crashanddie is writing a "SMS Analyser" Apr 22 12:38:24 timeless_mbp: Nothing seems to happen when clicking on the disable button. Apr 22 12:38:35 frals oh really, hmm but I didnt connect my phone to internet when I was sending with MMS on my other phones. Apr 22 12:38:46 Brokkoly: yes you did, you just didnt realise ;) Apr 22 12:39:07 frals oh is that so? :O Crazy then :P Apr 22 12:39:19 Is it just me or is that midgard toolbar thingy a very bad idea intuition/usability-wise ? Apr 22 12:39:23 X-Fade: I looked at closing the "parser" after each SMS push, but if two arrive after each other the second one gets missed... :/ Apr 22 12:39:34 is python able to create GUI's ? Apr 22 12:39:48 frals: That is strange. Apr 22 12:40:05 Jaffa: so... should I wait for feedback a little more or post the thing ? Apr 22 12:40:08 gents, do you know how in Python I can get a contact name from phone number? (well, name or other properties) Apr 22 12:40:12 achipa: Post the thing Apr 22 12:40:12 (in python) Apr 22 12:40:31 crashanddie: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Accessing_APIs_without_Python_bindings Apr 22 12:40:33 achipa: It's awful :-) Apr 22 12:40:40 viliny: python is a generic programming language :) Apr 22 12:40:41 frals: saw that, but it's ugly Apr 22 12:41:02 crashanddie: its the "nicest" way to do it afaik Apr 22 12:41:17 unless you want to use python-evolution and parse each contact manually, which is really slow :p Apr 22 12:41:20 crashanddie: python-evolution; open 'Default'; iterate over all contacts; break if it matches Apr 22 12:41:29 frals: that's almost like driving with your hood open Apr 22 12:41:33 crashanddie: What frals says Apr 22 12:42:06 Jaffa, frals: but that doesn't allow to get other numbers from that contact Apr 22 12:42:32 X-Fade: I suspect its because my daemon has to register as a dbus service, and if i quit the mainloop after each method call the queued calls are thrown away Apr 22 12:43:06 X-Fade: it should Apr 22 12:43:53 heh... i really dislike the look of python code already :/ Apr 22 12:43:56 timeless_mbp: not in mine. Basically a no-op. Apr 22 12:44:12 crashanddie: http://gitorious.org/fmms/fmms/blobs/master/contacts.py#line69 is what i do, its a bit of a mess but it gets the job done Apr 22 12:44:17 timeless_mbp: It gets focus, the dotted line shows in the button but nothing else happens. Apr 22 12:44:22 frals: thanks Apr 22 12:44:32 frals: do you check *only* phone numbers? Apr 22 12:44:43 frals: Hmm weird. Apr 22 12:44:52 frals: check bug 8989 Apr 22 12:44:53 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8989 number -> name decoding for sms should only be decoded from phone number fields of contacts Apr 22 12:45:32 hrw: uh, not sure, depends on how osso_abook.osso_abook_query_phone_number(number, fuzzy) works Apr 22 12:46:00 frals: add facebook or icq account and check? Apr 22 12:46:02 SMS analyser? So we will be able to detect spoofed SMS looking at originator SMSC, as on s80? Apr 22 12:46:43 X-Fade: it might be down to my implementation though Apr 22 12:47:22 timeless_mbp, X-Fade: seems like a noop here as well... how do i tell if the addon actually got disabled? Apr 22 12:47:53 right, adblock got disabled just fine, only ovi addon acting up Apr 22 12:48:15 hmhm, what exactly does MAFW mean? Apr 22 12:48:15 frals: indeed. Apr 22 12:48:23 frals: adblock disables fine. Apr 22 12:48:29 frals: how slow is that? Apr 22 12:49:11 crashanddie: it takes about ~0.1sec to init the ctypes stuff, havent measured each lookup but it shouldnt be that slow Apr 22 12:49:29 frals: so the self.ebook is not using evolution, right? Apr 22 12:49:55 self.ebook is, but the lookup is done through osso-abook Apr 22 12:50:28 crashanddie: in my experience that way is faster than doing it through python-evolution bindings Apr 22 12:50:40 yeah yeah, I heard evolution was dog slow Apr 22 12:50:47 frals: ok, I'll analyse that, thanks for the tip Apr 22 12:51:11 * timeless_mbp ponders Apr 22 12:51:12 why does the article look like CRAP ? grrrr Apr 22 12:51:24 for me, the addon in question isn't compatible w/ my browser, so it isn't enabled :) Apr 22 12:51:28 * achipa is not a maemo.org (or maybe midgard) fan Apr 22 12:51:33 (styling wise) Apr 22 12:52:13 X-Fade, ive got half an idea forming about something Apr 22 12:52:49 fuckin hell it wont even let me uninstall the ovi addon Apr 22 12:55:31 frals: Nope ;) Apr 22 12:55:51 X-Fade: very good feature ;) Apr 22 12:56:51 frals: I blame timeless_mbp . Apr 22 12:57:42 There should be some ini/xml file you can edit though. Apr 22 12:59:18 Python was supposed to be easy eh? i get an headache reading it :P Apr 22 12:59:42 upgrade your brain to human1.2 and dit becomes readable Apr 22 12:59:49 and it Apr 22 13:02:13 ill have to take another try at it when im not sleep deprived Apr 22 13:02:49 i don't get this whole interactive IDLE thing though Apr 22 13:03:13 seems like a pain in the ass to code something with something that talks back :) Apr 22 13:08:09 frals: ping Apr 22 13:10:19 hey folks, someone knows how can I locates the application name ? Apr 22 13:10:58 ceolin: in package description? Apr 22 13:10:59 Jaffa: torpedos, los ! posted in 1000 places. Apr 22 13:11:22 achipa: that qt mail you mean? Apr 22 13:11:33 hrw: yes Apr 22 13:11:45 hrw: I try to do this in the .desktop, but doesn't works Apr 22 13:11:53 Gizmokid2005: yes? Apr 22 13:12:26 I see long time before qt 4.6 will get really used in maemo5 ;( Apr 22 13:12:26 frals: Any reason why the notification of new SMS push for MMS shows up in email instead of (or with) the converstaions notification? Apr 22 13:12:31 pm if you'd like Apr 22 13:12:45 me love you long time. Apr 22 13:12:57 PR 1.2 OUT? Apr 22 13:13:07 Scelt: is 12 november today? Apr 22 13:13:09 Gizmokid2005: because ive not added my own category to the correct file as it was a real mess last i looked at it Apr 22 13:13:10 Scelt, it's been out for YEARS Apr 22 13:13:17 Scelt: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php <-- do your own work :P Apr 22 13:13:18 \o/ Apr 22 13:13:33 frals: ok, so it's not really a bug, just by design still Apr 22 13:13:44 Gizmokid2005: yes, by design ;) Apr 22 13:14:12 frals: ok good :) I notice everything else has been working great. Anytime I've tried to send/rec MMS, it's been happy and I can even delete the MMS now :P Apr 22 13:14:21 :) Apr 22 13:15:48 hrw: do you have any suggestion to solve this problem ? Apr 22 13:17:14 hrw: as in apps or ? there are 50ish qt4.6 apps/packages in there already Apr 22 13:18:05 ceolin: check ovi store desktop for example. for me (pl_PL) it is 'Sklep' which is translated name Apr 22 13:18:50 hrw: ok, I'll check Apr 22 13:19:25 achipa: today developer has to choose: app for users or for devs. first choice == 4.5 which do not follow style guide and require some extra work. second choice = 4.6 which has maemo5 support done in other way and require extras-devel so small amount of users Apr 22 13:20:15 hrw: well long time in that context means 'time until PR1.2' Apr 22 13:20:52 'long' would be the wrong term there, though, more like 'undefined' Apr 22 13:21:04 http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/22/super-prekernel-is-the-one-touch-way-to-make-your-pre-or-pre-plu/ Apr 22 13:21:07 achipa: and pr1.2 can be 12 november 2013 or tomorrow. I vote rather for 2 november Apr 22 13:21:11 kernel overclocking on fly ! Apr 22 13:21:25 n900 can have that too , hmmm Apr 22 13:22:07 you can already oc on the device Apr 22 13:22:34 but not on fly AFAIK Apr 22 13:27:38 Hello Apr 22 13:32:04 Hmm. so, anyone know what this is about? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=614664#post614664 Apr 22 13:33:24 bah Apr 22 13:33:39 MohammadAG: that news lie , is not on fly is just do the process of install a new kernel Apr 22 13:33:43 easy Apr 22 13:33:48 need reboot Apr 22 13:33:58 err Apr 22 13:34:15 titan's kernel doesn't install a new kernel after each reflash Apr 22 13:34:26 err Apr 22 13:34:30 after each overclock Apr 22 13:34:33 w/e Apr 22 13:34:48 but you need reboot when you do OC ? Apr 22 13:35:02 think not Apr 22 13:35:12 but i really don't give a **** :) Apr 22 13:35:50 my mainboard do something that could nice in n900 is a dynamic overclocking Apr 22 13:36:00 when the machine is 100% i need more power Apr 22 13:36:04 do a overclock Apr 22 13:36:10 dynamic and on fly Apr 22 13:36:18 that's stupid to do btw Apr 22 13:36:23 why ? Apr 22 13:36:43 cause when you overclock it stays at idle till you load it with something Apr 22 13:36:59 so dynamic oc'ing would be poinless, since it already controls frequency Apr 22 13:38:42 MohammadAG: ah ok Apr 22 13:38:50 is in some way the same thing Apr 22 13:38:54 after all Apr 22 13:39:09 well yes, overclocking an n900 basically *is* dynamic overclocking Apr 22 13:39:40 nid0, even without oc'ing, it controls frequency Apr 22 13:39:54 it doesn't get locked @ max frequency obviously Apr 22 13:40:25 I know, but my point is that oc'ing to for example 800mhz *is* a dynamic overclock, because itll only go up from 125/250 when it needs to Apr 22 13:40:45 How many degrees celsius should not exceed in overclock ? Apr 22 13:40:51 * Stskeeps twitches Apr 22 13:41:01 bib38: there is no temperature meter. Apr 22 13:41:03 temperature isn't the only concern Apr 22 13:42:03 Temperature probably is not an issue at all for the cpu, but more for the lcd which is above it when closed ;) Apr 22 13:42:59 X-Fade, at least the lcd can be replaced, unlike the cpu Apr 22 13:43:48 Seriously. The package isn't there. Apr 22 13:43:59 * frals forces Stskeeps to take part in "Overclock your N900" discussion(s) Apr 22 13:44:11 * jaska hits frals with an internet spaceship Apr 22 13:44:44 * frals sends some Ogre IIs in jaskas general direction Apr 22 13:44:46 * MohammadAG expected a kick Apr 22 13:45:00 No-one cares? Apr 22 13:45:10 frals: "you're all idiots. " Apr 22 13:45:11 :P Apr 22 13:45:15 Stskeeps: :D Apr 22 13:45:25 lol Apr 22 13:46:10 Speedevil : If there have a temperature sensor with the application cpufrequi Apr 22 13:46:18 ffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuu Apr 22 13:46:44 bib38, he means there's no hw temperature sensor Apr 22 13:46:53 except for the one near the battery Apr 22 13:47:10 GRRRRRRRRRRRRR Apr 22 13:47:14 which isn't very near the cpu Apr 22 13:47:17 or the battery Apr 22 13:47:58 * MohammadAG gives DocScrutinizer a beer Apr 22 13:48:11 * SpeedEvil gives MohammadAG a beetroot. Apr 22 13:49:00 * MohammadAG gives it back and says he's already drunk from tmo threads Apr 22 13:49:26 you're insane Apr 22 13:49:52 http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/04/22/1228228/Apple-To-Buy-ARM Apr 22 13:49:53 o_O Apr 22 13:49:59 what?! Apr 22 13:50:08 tmo is highly toxic - see what it gives us serveral times every single day Apr 22 13:50:22 frals: makes perfect sense. Apr 22 13:50:32 frals, you just unmade my day Apr 22 13:50:40 frals: anticompetitive lawsuit here we og Apr 22 13:50:41 go Apr 22 13:50:47 frals: Buy ARM, sell new licenses only to companies that agree not to sell into phones, profit! Apr 22 13:50:56 SpeedEvil, Stskeeps: yeah Apr 22 13:51:01 = end of Nokia? Apr 22 13:51:04 O.o Apr 22 13:51:05 nah Apr 22 13:51:06 MohammadAG: naah Apr 22 13:51:11 nokia's flexible in that regard Apr 22 13:51:11 well at least we have intel Apr 22 13:51:12 MohammadAG: arm is just the most common one Apr 22 13:51:17 MohammadAG: there is mips too Apr 22 13:51:19 not to sell into phones? wouldnt that be most of arm users anyway?:) Apr 22 13:51:26 MohammadAG: they can't exactly redact TI's license:P Apr 22 13:51:32 aren't mips crap? :) Apr 22 13:51:33 haha Apr 22 13:51:47 (no seriously) Apr 22 13:52:02 * MohammadAG looks at his PSP Apr 22 13:52:08 exist other low-consumer cpu Apr 22 13:52:09 mpi Apr 22 13:52:15 mip example Apr 22 13:52:16 apple bragged about creating their own SoC for next spyPhone. Maybe they realized there are less painful ways to avoid a epic fail Apr 22 13:52:16 "An article in the London Evening Standard claims that Apple has made an $8 billion offer to acquire ARM Holdings." Apr 22 13:52:17 VIA ? Apr 22 13:52:20 and VIA have ones too Apr 22 13:52:29 * RST38h laughs diabolically, starts drawing a pentagram Apr 22 13:52:31 and that is just a rumors Apr 22 13:52:42 but all apple rumer get real :D Apr 22 13:52:49 soon or later Apr 22 13:53:37 GAN900: where's your warning? Apr 22 13:54:10 holy shit frals is on a roll lately Apr 22 13:55:17 TomaszD: a nice sourdough one, with seeds? Apr 22 13:55:42 ...I... I guess... Apr 22 13:56:38 the damn config dialog doesn't pop up at startup anymore Apr 22 13:57:28 frals, there are a couple of strings translators could handle, are you planning i18n support before 1.0? Apr 22 13:57:58 TomaszD: i plan to get localization in there, depending on another blocker it might happen before 1.0 Apr 22 13:58:09 frals, ok Apr 22 13:58:15 basically if im not getting the stuff i need for autoconfig im gonna do the localization stuff Apr 22 13:58:37 needs some recoding as i been a lazy bastard in places and comparing to strings where i sohuldnt :p Apr 22 13:58:54 frals, IMHO you shouldn't release 1.0 before l10n support, but that's just MHO Apr 22 14:14:12 wazd, if you were going to make an 480*800 ui to do conversations, how would you expect it to look? could you prototype it in your flash? Apr 22 14:16:22 I would like it to have flying widgets all over the screen, and they most move pretty fast. Apr 22 14:16:43 No need for text input or anything. Apr 22 14:16:50 and blinking text Apr 22 14:16:54 fast and smoothly Apr 22 14:17:01 SMOOTH is a requirement. Apr 22 14:17:08 also - rotating and spinning in 4 dimensions. Apr 22 14:17:09 TigerTael, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z51-vCa0_Q :) Apr 22 14:17:18 watch all of it :p Apr 22 14:17:26 SpeedEvil, what about zooming in and out? Apr 22 14:17:46 how do I restart tracker? Apr 22 14:17:57 MohammadAG: just kill it? Apr 22 14:18:15 MohammadAG: open media player Apr 22 14:18:36 I did that, it still shows no songs Apr 22 14:18:49 (had to hard reset it, but it's not rebuilding the db) Apr 22 14:18:52 wait a bit Apr 22 14:18:58 lcuk, looking at it, waiting for load. Apr 22 14:19:01 or at least it did for me Apr 22 14:19:13 aha, sweet. Apr 22 14:19:25 Jaffa: MWKN heads up: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001792.html Apr 22 14:19:27 cpu load is close to 0 Apr 22 14:19:41 You know what bugs me about the photo section? When you turn the phone quickly 180, sometimes the rotation is a bit jerky. Apr 22 14:19:43 shouldn't tracker put some load on it? Apr 22 14:20:00 MohammadAG: sure it should Apr 22 14:20:23 MohammadAG: or it should mostly cause i/o load, but unfortunately causes both Apr 22 14:20:25 It makes me feel sad. :{ Apr 22 14:21:30 * lcuk nods Apr 22 14:21:32 Stskeeps: nice Apr 22 14:21:50 Stskeeps: nice info Apr 22 14:21:54 Guys, I'm serious about this 180 degree photo bug... Apr 22 14:22:06 looks like i need a reboot Apr 22 14:22:39 TigerTael: why is it relevant that the rotation is jerky? Apr 22 14:22:48 Stskeeps: wtf is up with those long lines :) Apr 22 14:23:25 X-Fade: dunno, mail client problem. i think i have same issue on gmail. It wraps fine for me Apr 22 14:23:43 Yeah, I wonder why it doesn't do that in the archive though. Apr 22 14:24:25 valdyn, the user experience is crap? Apr 22 14:24:35 I think user experience is very relevant. Apr 22 14:25:30 hmm, tracker isn't refreshing Apr 22 14:25:45 TigerTael: I cant reproduce that unless I run something in the background Apr 22 14:26:04 valdyn, I have it all the time. Apr 22 14:26:27 Hold your phone almost flat, and then tilt it in the other direction so the phone thinks it has done a 180 degree rotation. Apr 22 14:26:42 Repeat. Apr 22 14:26:54 TigerTael: while having what exactly on the screen? Apr 22 14:26:57 ah crap Apr 22 14:27:03 home's full again Apr 22 14:27:04 A photo taken with your camera. Apr 22 14:27:08 5mp for example. Apr 22 14:27:09 whenever I do that I get the image perfectly smoothly rotating through 180 then another 180 on and on Apr 22 14:27:23 TigerTael: Nearly every camera has that same issue. Apr 22 14:27:32 X-Fade, and so? Apr 22 14:27:34 TigerTael: Try shooting pictures straight down. Apr 22 14:27:37 That makes it cool? Apr 22 14:27:48 This is not about shooting pictures. Apr 22 14:27:50 No, that is just because it can't detect that. Apr 22 14:27:53 whats the issue..? Apr 22 14:28:02 Hold on, let me copy and paste for you. Apr 22 14:28:03 raptors Apr 22 14:28:13 [16:19:40] You know what bugs me about the photo section? When you turn the phone quickly 180, sometimes the rotation is a bit jerky. Apr 22 14:28:15 TigerTael: i got something worse, fullscreen is broken at that photo app Apr 22 14:28:26 valdyn, sounds like you busted your maemo. Apr 22 14:28:29 I thought so. I get no jerkiness when rotating. Apr 22 14:28:32 Accelerometers don't record certain movements. Apr 22 14:28:44 It's nothing to do with accelerometers. Apr 22 14:29:17 When doing a picture rotation, viewing a 5mp image that was taken previously, rotating straight to 180 degrees, image rotation is sometimes jerky. Apr 22 14:29:39 Although I have the same problem with smaller pictures. Apr 22 14:29:43 TigerTael: nah, its working now Apr 22 14:29:44 TigerTael: You mean in the viewer? Apr 22 14:29:59 When you're viewing the image... Photo viewer if you want to call it that. Apr 22 14:30:00 TigerTael: its a little jerky i could say, but its nothing that hurts usability anyway Apr 22 14:30:13 valdyn, sometimes it gets stuck for like 500 msec. Apr 22 14:30:38 TigerTael: not for me Apr 22 14:30:41 User experience matters... Apr 22 14:31:08 * MohammadAG dumps his apt cache onto the memory card Apr 22 14:31:09 TigerTael: Fixed in PR1.2 Apr 22 14:31:18 X-Fade, for real real? Apr 22 14:31:18 As I can't reproduce it. Apr 22 14:31:23 Oh, you have 1.2? Apr 22 14:31:39 TigerTael: sure, but i know people who dont give a shit about smooth scrolling but everything about something *I* consider irrelevant Apr 22 14:32:05 valdyn, the device wasn't made for you. Apr 22 14:32:16 .... Apr 22 14:32:21 .... Apr 22 14:32:25 :D Apr 22 14:32:44 valdyn, what matters to you?> Apr 22 14:33:14 does the N900 support ext4? Apr 22 14:33:20 smooth user experience is a feature Apr 22 14:33:23 MohammadAG: no. Apr 22 14:33:25 the N900 almost has it Apr 22 14:33:30 mgedmin, I agree. Apr 22 14:33:39 MohammadAG: not the default-kernel Apr 22 14:33:40 lcuk: speed Apr 22 14:33:47 Treibholz, mine has a mkfs.ext4 file, so i was wondering.. Apr 22 14:33:49 valdyn, :) arent we all Apr 22 14:33:51 binary* Apr 22 14:34:00 TigerTael: Ah you mean it pauses at a 45 degree angle when really turning it a lot? Apr 22 14:34:00 help Apr 22 14:34:04 Treibholz, what about ext3? Apr 22 14:34:18 talk to people about making small changes Apr 22 14:34:18 MohammadAG: ext3 is working and used. Apr 22 14:34:22 together they should add up Apr 22 14:34:25 X-Fade, well not necessarily 45 degree... but yes... Apr 22 14:34:36 k, just making sure it doesn't need a kernel Apr 22 14:34:44 And then, if I rotate 90 degree after that, I've had the same jerky rotation. ;/ Apr 22 14:34:50 this is sloppy anyway that the picture rotation stutters Apr 22 14:35:01 TigerTael: I only get it when I get really ADD on the thing. Apr 22 14:35:06 for me, rotation occurs too much :$ Apr 22 14:35:13 MohammadAG: /home is ext3 Apr 22 14:35:15 i take photos that fill the screen Apr 22 14:35:20 with device rotated Apr 22 14:35:24 It you encounter that, then you forgot to take your pills. Apr 22 14:35:27 when i see it i wantto see it full Apr 22 14:35:59 I like my N900 over my previous android phone... Apr 22 14:36:27 * haltdef_ came from windows mobile Apr 22 14:36:32 TigerTael: btw, the n900 is made just for me, even if nokia would never admit that ;) Apr 22 14:36:36 n900 blows it away, so responsive :P Apr 22 14:36:45 valdyn, I beg to differ. Apr 22 14:36:52 haltdef_, yeah I had WM before Android. Apr 22 14:37:05 5+6 Apr 22 14:37:34 Before that, Symbian S60... Apr 22 14:38:02 And also Symbian UIQ Apr 22 14:38:16 TigerTael: what was you previous android phone? Apr 22 14:38:26 been on WM since 2003 or so, dell axim x50v -> htc universal -> xperia x1 .. palm OS on a zire 72 before that :p Apr 22 14:38:41 lcuk: no I can't Apr 22 14:38:55 wao, HTC Magic, Android 1.5, Android 1.6, Android 2.x Apr 22 14:38:55 haltdef_: the htc universal runs linux! Apr 22 14:38:56 so what's the verdict on smartreflex? Apr 22 14:39:11 never in a usable way afaik Apr 22 14:39:14 Use it if your phone works with it, don't if it doesn't ? Apr 22 14:39:15 I broke mine anyway :P Apr 22 14:39:25 is there a kernel for the n900 yet with colivas' scheduler? Apr 22 14:39:29 haltdef_: no, but neither was it useable with WM6 :-) Apr 22 14:39:33 TigerTael: oh, i'm quite negative to the htc. I'm waitin for the samsung galaxy s Apr 22 14:39:34 :) Apr 22 14:39:43 wao, I refuse to buy HTC again. Apr 22 14:39:54 me too Apr 22 14:40:03 reasons? Apr 22 14:40:06 nothing useful out of them for a while now :P Apr 22 14:40:11 TigerTael: well, friend of mine recoomends me a HTC desire, but.. I just refuse :) Apr 22 14:40:30 opentyrian is fubar Apr 22 14:41:04 n900 is the one with real linux and usable kbd Apr 22 14:41:11 valdyn: ck patchset is dead for over 3 years now Apr 22 14:41:26 jacekowski: the bfs isnt dead, its rather alive and new Apr 22 14:41:29 jacekowski: bfs is newer stuff from ck Apr 22 14:41:56 mhm Apr 22 14:42:03 and that photo rotation jerkiness would be a great way to see it do something useful Apr 22 14:42:16 is it any better than staircase-deadline? Apr 22 14:42:27 so this guy said fmms was draining his battery faster (which might be true actually) and just to get some more figures from him he says the last version doesnt do it anymore, in which ive fixed nothing... >_< Apr 22 14:42:34 jacekowski: he has benchmarks up Apr 22 14:42:44 MohammadAG, HTC devices aren't made that well. I've had two HTC devices die on me or fail in some way... Apr 22 14:42:45 jacekowski: its for "small" machines Apr 22 14:43:23 MohammadAG, HTC support is terrible, their company practices suck. I had to reverse engineer the kernel for the HTC Magic for the community. Apr 22 14:43:29 ( where small means < 16 cores or somesuch ) Apr 22 14:43:43 any news on the usb host efforts? Apr 22 14:43:46 i'll have to check it Apr 22 14:43:58 And then, after my week of reverse engineering it, they release their version... which sucked. ;P Apr 22 14:44:25 while the scheduler thats actually on the n900 is for scalability up to 1024 or more iirc Apr 22 14:44:29 The effect that had, the community wasn't as excited as when HTC released it because I released my version which worked flawlessly a week prior. Apr 22 14:44:33 i was using old .21 i think it was because of ck patchset Apr 22 14:44:33 Anyways, gtg. Apr 22 14:45:03 and there was really usefull swap frefetch thing in it as well Apr 22 14:45:10 prefetch* Apr 22 14:45:14 jacekowski: thats in mainline iirc Apr 22 14:45:18 valdyn: did you try the bfs? Apr 22 14:45:30 corecode_: no, i would have to backport the patch... Apr 22 14:45:35 I solved swap problems in easier way Apr 22 14:46:02 valdyn: did somebody consider porting the changes to a more recent kernel? Apr 22 14:46:08 and i had my own patches for oom killer Apr 22 14:46:19 corecode_: im googling, i dont see anything promising Apr 22 14:46:57 So. Apple wants to buy ARM. Apr 22 14:47:14 i think it might be worth porting part of it to n900 kernel Apr 22 14:47:24 Shapeshifter: not going to happen Apr 22 14:47:29 Shapeshifter, or somebody wants to just spread a rumor and win by traiding stock. Apr 22 14:47:29 hopefully not Apr 22 14:47:31 trading Apr 22 14:48:01 what would they gain in buying arm? Apr 22 14:48:05 theres alot more money interested in keeping arm independent i think Apr 22 14:48:28 and why would not intel have done that before... Apr 22 14:48:54 corecode_: intel cant, monopoly suit and probably conviction would follow Apr 22 14:48:58 valdyn: If you wait for the work to be done for the MeeGo kernel, there will be an n900 .33 kernel and you can apply BFS on top of that Apr 22 14:49:09 Termana: oh, cool Apr 22 14:49:23 valdyn: but do not expect that maemo5 will work with that kernel Apr 22 14:49:26 wazd ok Apr 22 14:49:38 hrw: why not? Apr 22 14:49:51 Termana: good point Apr 22 14:50:02 valdyn: it may work or not Apr 22 14:50:05 hrw: replacing SGX libs it might actually Apr 22 14:50:08 Termana: any idea how soon that will be available? Apr 22 14:50:22 hrw: yea, true. I just think its likely it will work. Apr 22 14:50:39 now, usb host, anybody? Apr 22 14:50:43 Stskeeps: is dsp interface which nokia uses still in .33? Apr 22 14:50:54 hrw: it's dspbridge in maemo5, not gw Apr 22 14:51:02 ok Apr 22 14:51:03 corecode_: May release acording to Harri Hakulinen Apr 22 14:51:24 most of the patches are already on meego-dev Apr 22 14:51:30 That too Apr 22 14:51:33 :P Apr 22 14:51:40 Stskeeps: just after I left that ml... Apr 22 14:52:20 hrw: Archives Apr 22 14:52:26 Termana: oh cool Apr 22 14:52:37 so that will happen before 1.2? :) Apr 22 14:52:52 heh rimshot Apr 22 14:54:03 damn tracker Apr 22 14:58:06 as it seems, meego is easier to access, source-wise Apr 22 15:00:33 oh god, they're using quilt on the kernel sources Apr 22 15:01:19 watching outright optimism turn to abstract horror in under 10 seconds, priceless. Apr 22 15:01:56 they always get me Apr 22 15:02:01 why would they do that? Apr 22 15:02:12 why not just a kernel source fork? Apr 22 15:03:05 quilt where? :P Apr 22 15:04:05 * Termana chucks Stskeeps his blanky. Apr 22 15:04:06 THERE Apr 22 15:04:35 LOL Apr 22 15:04:56 lol Apr 22 15:05:22 Is there some way of enabling and disabling bluetooth over dbus or by any other scriptable means? I found this on the forums (for n810) but it doesn't work on maemo5: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/hci0 org.bluez.Adapter.SetMode string:discoverable Apr 22 15:09:13 is there another editor with syntax-highlighting except vim? Apr 22 15:10:17 Shapeshifter, is there an extra space in that command Apr 22 15:10:29 at the "org.bluez /org" Apr 22 15:10:42 it looks like it shouldnt be there - did you pull that string out of tmo Apr 22 15:11:33 lcuk: i still need to do that bug report. ended up working half the night instead :/ Apr 22 15:12:00 lcuk: yes I did. I retried without the gap and now it says Must use org.mydomain.Interface.Method notation, no dot in "string:discoverable". Apr 22 15:12:09 haven't used dbus actively a lot :| Apr 22 15:12:39 me neither, but i know tmo cuts long lines and things like that space missing confuse it Apr 22 15:13:42 Shapeshifter, looks like that might not be it http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/AdapterModes Apr 22 15:13:50 original bluez wiki has same strings Apr 22 15:15:04 oh noes, I killed tmo Apr 22 15:15:21 http://www.hedwerks.net/images/omfgonoz.gif Apr 22 15:15:52 Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "SetMode" with signature "s" on interface "org.bluez.Adapter" doesn't exist... Apr 22 15:16:00 * Shapeshifter wishes back dcop Apr 22 15:24:37 not even org.bluez exists Apr 22 15:26:41 sooo... what EXACTLY are the requirements for Nokia Messaging to show up in the service providers ? Apr 22 15:28:08 hey Apr 22 15:28:14 sup? Apr 22 15:28:27 does fmms has irc chan? Apr 22 15:28:36 MohammadAG_, here? Apr 22 15:28:54 kind of Apr 22 15:28:59 The developer is here Apr 22 15:29:06 ^ Apr 22 15:29:20 what phone company do u use? Apr 22 15:29:27 Orange Apr 22 15:29:37 goooood Apr 22 15:29:38 ZogG: ask the question Apr 22 15:29:40 frals has a wiki on operator settings Apr 22 15:29:48 i saw it Apr 22 15:30:05 i just want my virgin connection settings Apr 22 15:31:05 MohammadAG, do you have fmms? Apr 22 15:31:36 SpeedEvil, i wanted to ask if there is a way to back up connection settings? Apr 22 15:31:48 !ping me Apr 22 15:32:02 back up? Apr 22 15:32:17 ZogG_N900, get the operator_settings file and let it autoconfigure Apr 22 15:32:24 i mean restore ?) Apr 22 15:32:43 is there anyone who HAS flashed his N900 and manages to set up Nokia Messaging afterwards ? Apr 22 15:32:56 MohammadAG, u mean to delete it? Apr 22 15:33:35 achipa: what do you mean nokia messaging? Apr 22 15:33:41 achipa: depends on the country I'd say Apr 22 15:34:02 andre__: what country ? Apr 22 15:34:21 achipa: SIM, IP-based, regional ? cause all three are different Apr 22 15:34:48 korhojoa: the push mail thingy Apr 22 15:35:57 ZogG_N900, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/operator_settings.noext Apr 22 15:36:08 save it in /etc as operator_settings Apr 22 15:36:35 huh Apr 22 15:36:42 xchat has popups Apr 22 15:36:45 achipa, yeah Apr 22 15:37:00 i reflashed about 20-30 times Apr 22 15:37:07 MohammadAG, is it original? Apr 22 15:37:17 ZogG_N900, it's from PR1.2 Apr 22 15:37:23 the sdk to be more precise Apr 22 15:37:26 MohammadAG: aand ? does it appear ? Apr 22 15:37:28 oh Apr 22 15:37:37 achipa, yes, it does appear Apr 22 15:37:46 no problems with NM here Apr 22 15:38:17 MohammadAG, and if delete this file would it try to recreate itself? Apr 22 15:39:09 ZogG_N900, it contains operator settings Apr 22 15:39:26 fmms should detect the settings automatically Apr 22 15:40:11 i understand that but i never changed the settings so somehower maemo got them. Apr 22 15:40:27 fmms just screwed all my settings Apr 22 15:40:34 btw do u use fmms? Apr 22 15:40:50 and do u have 2 apn's with fapn? Apr 22 15:40:59 MohammadAG: what's your N900's country (mine offers Finland by default) Apr 22 15:41:06 ? Apr 22 15:41:26 US device, global firmware, israel Apr 22 15:41:51 ZogG_N900, the newest version of fmms doesn't need apns Apr 22 15:42:41 i updated and it's gone Apr 22 15:43:09 i mean settings Apr 22 15:43:39 ZogG_N900, download the operator settings file and place it in /etc Apr 22 15:43:45 btw what is the difference between firmwares? Apr 22 15:43:53 i mean global asia and so on Apr 22 15:44:04 emergency numbers afaik Apr 22 15:44:16 that's all? Apr 22 15:44:54 its not even emergency numbers Apr 22 15:45:02 at least not between uk <> global Apr 22 15:45:22 so what is it Apr 22 15:45:26 no clue Apr 22 15:45:48 but im on the global firmware and it perfectly well recognises the uk emergency number Apr 22 15:46:23 i think there's a 99999 emergency number Apr 22 15:46:28 actually not sure what it is Apr 22 15:46:34 but someone mentioned it here Apr 22 15:46:37 you mean 999? Apr 22 15:46:42 could be Apr 22 15:46:48 thats the uk emergency number Apr 22 15:46:53 and global firmware recognises it Apr 22 15:47:01 not here Apr 22 15:47:16 in what way? Apr 22 15:47:17 it depends on the sim card then Apr 22 15:47:28 the lock code screen Apr 22 15:47:36 mine recognises it at the lock code screen with no sim in Apr 22 15:47:59 mine doesn't recognize it with the sim Apr 22 15:48:13 you sure its the lock code screen, not the sim lock screen? Apr 22 15:48:33 the latter wont recognise 999 with a non uk sim, and thats because of the sim, the phone's firmware makes no difference Apr 22 15:48:44 112 is hardcoded to GSM worldwide. Other emergency #s may be propagated by carrier's network Apr 22 15:49:01 nid0, lock screen Apr 22 15:49:22 beats me then, the device lock code screen regonises 999 fine for me with or without a sim Apr 22 15:49:53 haven't tried without a sim Apr 22 15:51:59 nid0: it's not the SIM, it's the network to deliver alternative emrgency numbers. Even without SIM your modem scans for networks available *to call an emergency number* Apr 22 15:52:22 hi all Apr 22 15:53:16 is anyone aware of a new maemo device coming out soon? i really need to get a new phone and the n900 looks good but I am concerned something better will come out soon Apr 22 15:53:53 it always does Apr 22 15:53:59 DocScrutinizer: If thats the case I wish whatever magic smoke was used to do it was available the rest of the time - When this discussion last came up I went to the extent of going somewhere I know for an absolute solid fact no networks have any coverage whatsoever, tried entering 999 at the device lock screen, and *the very instant* I entered the 3rd 9, the pad gave me the emergency call option Apr 22 15:54:02 jamesw: all the new devices are announced here first, so that they don't have to do all that advertising and marketing or anything. makes sure their competitors like htc and palm aren't surprised either.. Apr 22 15:54:18 if that's not built into the firmware, it's some damn clever darknet they arent letting joe public in on Apr 22 15:54:29 i realize it may seem silly to ask in here Disconnect but i did just do some googling with not much luck Apr 22 15:54:38 so i was hoping someone in here would have the heads up Apr 22 15:54:43 ..right. because its secret. Apr 22 15:54:53 a lot of times it is.. :) Apr 22 15:55:11 don't have to be a dick about it Apr 22 15:55:19 thats my point. its not a secret if you can just wander over and say "tell me" Apr 22 15:55:41 anyone helpful? Apr 22 15:55:51 pro ping out Apr 22 15:56:26 anyway it didn't help Apr 22 15:56:36 changed it and rebooted. nothing happened Apr 22 16:05:29 nid0: that's not darknet, that's probably cache Apr 22 16:05:33 Hey, is it safe to move the apt caches out to emmc ? Apr 22 16:05:36 how do you edit the menu in lxde? Apr 22 16:05:39 I mean, that would save ~30 megs Apr 22 16:05:55 korhojoa, the package cache is safe to move Apr 22 16:06:08 i moved it to MyDocs Apr 22 16:06:36 "someone" should make a wiki entry on keeping the rootfs in better shape Apr 22 16:06:46 :P Apr 22 16:06:50 PhonicUK: you can do a symlink Apr 22 16:06:54 to Mydocs Apr 22 16:06:55 a wiki entry for 1 line? Apr 22 16:07:30 nevermind. it helps to search with different keywords in the wiki. found it: http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Apr 22 16:07:35 thats what i did Apr 22 16:07:44 nid0: for registration speedup at power-on, all sorts of info about last associated BTS are stored to some flash inside modem usually Apr 22 16:07:48 anyone know how to modify the Lxce desktop? Apr 22 16:08:18 what is Lxce? Apr 22 16:08:20 not desktop Apr 22 16:08:20 menu Apr 22 16:08:32 *LXDE not LXCE Apr 22 16:08:47 its the default desktop for the N900 version of debian Apr 22 16:08:47 PhonicUK: try ~/.config/ Apr 22 16:10:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSdxqIBfEAw Apr 22 16:13:25 nid0: there are even teachers for English in German schools, who cannot pronounce the 'th' properly. Apr 22 16:14:03 how do I disable skype ? as in, I don't want it to create network traffic Apr 22 16:14:09 nid0: but I guess it's similar to English German teachers which the 'ch' Apr 22 16:14:13 achipa: logout. Apr 22 16:14:22 Treibholz: on an N900 ? :) Apr 22 16:14:30 achipa: logout from skype. Apr 22 16:14:33 Treibholz: I dunno, we can say "ch" quite alright Apr 22 16:14:41 what gives brits a hard time is rolling r's Apr 22 16:14:51 Treibholz: nope, does not help, still goes aaround Apr 22 16:15:23 Why can't places hire people who actually speak english instead of those who think they do? Apr 22 16:15:24 achipa, eh? just set your availability to offline Apr 22 16:15:27 no more network traffic Apr 22 16:15:34 nid0: so you think Apr 22 16:15:39 open tcpdump Apr 22 16:15:44 well, so I know Apr 22 16:15:52 set yourself in offline mode Apr 22 16:15:53 nid0: most German can't say a rolling r, either. Apr 22 16:15:57 and take a peek Apr 22 16:16:23 It annoyed me enough when I had to get a private tutor in primary school due to the teacher and I getting annoyed when I kept noticing and correcting her mistakes. Apr 22 16:17:06 my sister did private tuition for a while a few years back Apr 22 16:17:13 (shes english and lives in germany) Apr 22 16:18:06 just say Chuchichäschtli Apr 22 16:18:37 what's that? Apr 22 16:19:39 the swiss word for kitchen cupboard Apr 22 16:19:47 achipa: powerful tools like tcpdump might give you lots of proper data output that's just hard to interpret if you're not used to it Apr 22 16:19:49 How the deuce is that pronounced? Apr 22 16:20:21 DocScrutinizer: okay, I understand Apr 22 16:20:22 exactly like itz writtn Apr 22 16:20:29 * achipa goes to make some coffee Apr 22 16:21:03 korhojoa: he's not doing a bad job (though way too fast): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU0zeeFNZrQ&feature=related Apr 22 16:21:33 of course, there is always the possibility that I have some trojan that trows udp crap around Apr 22 16:21:37 SpeedEvil, are u still here? Apr 22 16:21:48 yes Apr 22 16:21:54 korhojoa: also, the swiss dude at the start says it right. the rest is just hilarious for a swiss viewer ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_sPkxfKp-U Apr 22 16:22:16 * MohammadAG hasn't seen noobmonk3y today Apr 22 16:22:31 can u tell me what files did fmms 0.7 changed for connections? Apr 22 16:22:44 ZogG_N900, ask frals Apr 22 16:23:03 frals, i'm asking you =) Apr 22 16:23:07 it doesnt change any files Apr 22 16:23:27 So... what's special about the Joggler? Apr 22 16:23:35 its dirt cheap Apr 22 16:23:57 it changed my connection Apr 22 16:24:09 changed your connection how? Apr 22 16:24:11 Shapeshifter: well. that's not so hard Apr 22 16:24:24 the C isn't really that prevalent when pronounced Apr 22 16:24:25 korhojoa: that's right Apr 22 16:24:42 DocScrutinizer: I used to be a half Linux admin in one of my previous lives, so not a *complete* tcpdump newbie :) Apr 22 16:24:45 korhojoa: well, the Ch sounds like when you clear your throat Apr 22 16:25:10 frals, it worked out of box and after i got fmms 0.7 and than upgraded gprs not workimg anymore Apr 22 16:25:12 still not as throaty as in arabic, like khalifa Apr 22 16:25:23 achipa: I C. Apr 22 16:25:29 achipa, iptraf network monitor in -testing is dead simple to keep an eye on Apr 22 16:25:34 entered the connection manager and checked there all the options are blank Apr 22 16:25:44 and it should show you that theres no net activity whatsoever from skype with it set to offline Apr 22 16:25:47 can't restore the default Apr 22 16:26:09 nid0: just amusing myself how many things disrespect the settings Apr 22 16:26:17 it shouldnt modify any IAP UNLESS the iapid is z_fMMS-APN - which it isnt unless fMMS creates it in 0.9.x Apr 22 16:26:20 achipa: nevertheless I seem to have noticed a missmatch in what you both were talking bout. Skype offline status != N900 offline-mode Apr 22 16:26:27 PhonicUK: hey, did you move the microb daemon? Apr 22 16:26:54 ZogG_N900: also, if you change settings in internet connections that overrides whatever fMMS does so something else must be messed up for you Apr 22 16:26:59 frals, i did update to 0.9 as i said Apr 22 16:27:04 DocScrutinizer: yes. that's what I said originally. I don't want *skype* network traffic Apr 22 16:27:10 nope Apr 22 16:27:13 probably not a good idea Apr 22 16:27:20 achipa: and I guess esp for skype it's hard to attribute some data packets to it, when you log those in tcpdump Apr 22 16:27:36 "after i got fmms 0.7 " afraid im not a mind reader :p Apr 22 16:27:39 PhonicUK: okely dokely Apr 22 16:27:44 frals, the point that i changed after it didn.t work ) Apr 22 16:27:56 PhonicUK: well, i'm now at 57.6 free, so that should be ok Apr 22 16:27:59 frals, i mentioned i updated Apr 22 16:28:01 what exactly did you change and where, and what doesnt work? Apr 22 16:28:10 ok Apr 22 16:28:11 yah thats more than enough Apr 22 16:28:14 well something is happily throwing udp packets around, and in a pattern reminiscent of skype Apr 22 16:28:17 well, "updated" can mean anything as theres about 30 different versions out Apr 22 16:28:19 30MB is usually fine Apr 22 16:28:20 im on about 25 Apr 22 16:28:38 anyway, me away now - anybody needs a german keyboard? (keycaps mat) Apr 22 16:29:08 hi i'm trying to use flasher on Fedora12, but fails to recognise verison of libusb... where can I get the source to recompile ? Apr 22 16:29:18 frals, i specified version ) Apr 22 16:29:41 anyway i didn't touch anything but got no connections Apr 22 16:29:55 yes, you said 0.7 twice, which led me to believe you were actually using that Apr 22 16:30:07 anyway go into fmms config and set connection mode to "Polite" Apr 22 16:30:07 than got to forum and understood that fmms can change apn settings Apr 22 16:31:02 i deleted fmms and didn't get back my previos connection Apr 22 16:31:02 and save and it should appear again Apr 22 16:31:39 can i do it manually? Apr 22 16:31:41 reinstall it then and change the setting and it will unmask it again, problem solved ;) Apr 22 16:32:05 thank you Apr 22 16:32:20 yes, set the simimsi in /system/osso/connectivity/IAP//sim_imsi to your simimsi Apr 22 16:32:25 gotta make dinner now so afk Apr 22 16:32:39 thank you man Apr 22 16:33:04 np Apr 22 16:33:18 i gotta go too but have few more questions so i'll try to catch you other time Apr 22 16:33:43 also chatting from n900 is nice but desktop is more comfy for me Apr 22 16:33:48 bye Apr 22 16:37:24 afternoon all Apr 22 16:38:58 <3 debian on N900 :D Apr 22 16:39:03 openoffice and frozen-bubble :D Apr 22 16:39:12 esp once i got the sizes sorted so its not massive Apr 22 16:40:25 frozen-bubble needs better controls Apr 22 16:41:05 hiya lardman \o Apr 22 16:41:33 * GeneralAntilles wonders who prodded mshaver into responding. . . . Apr 22 16:43:03 hey lcuk2 Apr 22 16:43:14 So I looked at the code of bluezwitch to find out about how to toggle bluetooth through dbus, and he does: self.obj = self.bus.get_object('org.bluez', self.defaultAdapter); self.adapter = dbus.Interface(self.obj, 'org.bluez.Adapter'); and later self.adapter.SetProperty('Powered',False) or True to disable/enable it. But if I try pretty much exactly this through dbus-send, it fails. What I do: "dbus-send --system --type=method_call ... Apr 22 16:43:20 ... --print-reply --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/hci0 org.bluez.Adapter.Powered boolean:true" and the error: "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "Powered" with signature "b" on interface "org.bluez.Adapter" doesn't exist" Apr 22 16:43:21 lcuk2: I passed by your locale yesterday, on my marathon train journey back from Glasgow Apr 22 16:43:40 lardman, heh Apr 22 16:43:46 ash? Apr 22 16:44:02 the hci0 thing I got from tmo, I don't see anything about that in the code Apr 22 16:44:04 Shapeshifter, mm dunno Apr 22 16:44:17 lardman, were you stuck for long if so? Apr 22 16:46:19 well. fuck smartreflex then Apr 22 16:46:30 first crash ever after enabling it Apr 22 16:48:09 PhonicUK: let me guess - by 'Debian on n900' you mean 'Debian in chroot working as window on maemo5 desktop'? Apr 22 16:48:34 indeed, ive not bothered with properly running it yet Apr 22 16:48:50 might do if i get a 16GB MicroSD though Apr 22 16:49:17 lcuk2: nah not stuck, just had to train it as I didn't think the planes would fly; as it turns out they did - drat! Apr 22 16:49:56 aargh Apr 22 16:49:57 lcuk2: nevermind I found a way (in python using bluezwitch code) Apr 22 16:50:05 bloody Kontact just crashed part way through an email Apr 22 16:50:15 : / Apr 22 16:53:55 i've just picked up an N900 and I'm looking for some docs on how it boots, how to replace the kernel, etc.. the wiki seems to mostly talk about only the maemo 4 devices for that kind of thing.. Apr 22 16:55:40 Torne, it has maemo 5 entries too Apr 22 16:56:05 also Apr 22 16:56:06 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/kernel-power-flasher/2.6.28-maemo24/ Apr 22 16:56:16 MohammadAG: for general stuff, yes, but the pages about booting from flash card and so on all talk about partition layouts that the n900 doesn't have (and jffs, which it doesn't have either) Apr 22 16:57:54 google suggests n900 doesn't use initfs any more, which means all the instructions i can find don't apply :) Apr 22 17:00:39 i cant find the .deb package for adobe flash player :\ Apr 22 17:00:45 in maemo.org/packages Apr 22 17:00:47 Torne, flasher replaces the kernel. Apr 22 17:00:54 PhonicUK, because it's not there Apr 22 17:00:57 poo Apr 22 17:01:01 why not? Apr 22 17:01:13 Flash for Maemo is only licensed to device owners. Apr 22 17:01:18 ah Apr 22 17:01:34 Do i have a dhcp client (dont find /etc/dhcp...)? Apr 22 17:01:38 i was wondering if the Maemo build would work on other similar hardware Apr 22 17:01:47 OMAP3/Debian Apr 22 17:02:38 GAN900: right, but what about multiple OSes or similar? i want to be able to boot non-linux kernels.. Apr 22 17:02:56 Torne, there should be a wiki article somewhere Apr 22 17:03:06 GAN900: i agree that there should, but i can't find it if there is ;) Apr 22 17:03:09 PhonicUK, should. Apr 22 17:03:31 Torne, basically, install the multiboot loader and away you go Apr 22 17:05:29 GAN900: yah, but i can't find this. also, i would quite like some general docs on how booting works from the beginning (since i am an os developer) Apr 22 17:05:56 Torne, talk to Stskeeps. I don't have any links handy, but he's one of the experts. Apr 22 17:07:14 ok, found: udhcp Apr 22 17:07:46 GAN900: my OS expects the standard ARM-Linux boot protocol where it gets passed a taglist with arguments, ramdisk location, etc.. u-boot provides this but I have no idea how nolo works ;) Apr 22 17:12:23 VDVsx: wanna meet up sunday/monday? Apr 22 17:12:30 assuming my flight isnt grounded, that is Apr 22 17:17:51 goes for anyone else around HEL ;-) Apr 22 17:17:57 +as well Apr 22 17:20:56 wut Apr 22 17:21:08 when monday Apr 22 17:24:06 frals, no sure about sunday, depends on saturday night events, but monday should works Apr 22 17:24:13 :D Apr 22 17:35:28 IS anyone having problems ligin in to skype with the n900 ? Apr 22 17:36:09 err: problems login into skype Apr 22 17:36:09 nope Apr 22 17:37:08 ....wow, is there really no way to have more than one kernel? NOLO is that dumb? Apr 22 17:37:08 wierd , I cant log in in my n900 only on my desktop Apr 22 17:42:16 so just ooc who's bright idea was it to take out all the confirmations? :( "off" is next to "change profile" and works instantly. oops, so much for what you were doing. Apr 22 17:54:41 hi Apr 22 17:54:48 i have tried to upload my kismet package to extras-devel. the build was successful, but it doesn't get imported. Apr 22 17:55:19 Torne, NOLO meets the requirements Nokia set for it. Apr 22 17:55:54 what are we discussing? Apr 22 17:55:55 there were already a kismet package from another maintainer but it was broken; is that the problem? Apr 22 17:56:20 Torne, let's talk - what's up? :P Apr 22 17:57:12 LOL Apr 22 17:57:22 apparently there's iPhone fakes on ebay that are just a case + battery + LED Apr 22 17:57:26 heh Apr 22 17:57:41 IMO they should just clean up the advertising and sell them as legit fakes/cases Apr 22 17:57:49 more useful than actual iphones Apr 22 17:57:53 yeah Apr 22 17:57:55 anti-theft Apr 22 17:58:05 put your real phone in your pocket and use the fake on a belt Apr 22 17:58:15 maybe put a BT headset in the fake Apr 22 17:58:20 and anthrax Apr 22 17:58:34 >_< Apr 22 17:58:35 and you get a spare battery (if only you were able to change it easily) Apr 22 17:58:49 Shapeshifter: different kind of battery Apr 22 17:59:05 makes sense ;) Apr 22 17:59:19 someone I know got it and is using it for his homebrew handheld ;) Apr 22 18:01:10 guys is it possible to have multiple X terms Apr 22 18:01:24 of course Apr 22 18:01:26 click the menu Apr 22 18:01:56 ah. than Apr 22 18:01:58 ks Apr 22 18:02:19 crap always miss the autocompletion Apr 22 18:03:07 is there a way to change autocomplete word? Apr 22 18:05:07 i was hoping pressing arrow keys on autocomplete word would give another word, but it doesnt :( Apr 22 18:28:32 Stskeeps: Torne was interested in a comprehensive summary on the bootprocess details from pushbutton to start of loading kernel image. I'm interested as well Apr 22 18:28:52 Nolo... etc pp Apr 22 18:29:07 DocScrutinizer: omap atags is pretty known Apr 22 18:30:49 well probably it is, to the people who ever heard about it Apr 22 18:31:57 a iki page about boot process, with just these 5 words... better than what we have now, no? Apr 22 18:32:07 yes Apr 22 18:32:12 iki pages are important Apr 22 18:32:45 heh lcuk, is your keyboard also recked? Apr 22 18:33:14 no hats up ith yours? Apr 22 18:33:43 th e'wwwwwwww' key acts even more funny than he rest :-P Apr 22 18:34:02 [20:33:18] a iki page about boot process, with just these 5 words... better than what we have now, no? Apr 22 18:34:16 :) Apr 22 18:34:48 hat should i post on titter :D Apr 22 18:35:30 titter is aesome Apr 22 18:35:34 * GAN900 hits lcuk. Apr 22 18:35:46 titter.com ? Apr 22 18:35:49 :D Apr 22 18:36:23 eeeeek Apr 22 18:36:49 hello orld! Apr 22 18:36:50 wames and wossip for wirls Apr 22 18:37:14 lol Treibholz Apr 22 18:37:51 ~wiki atags Apr 22 18:37:57 I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=atags&go=Go Apr 22 18:39:08 will fail, but... Apr 22 18:39:12 ~google atags Apr 22 18:39:26 * SpeedEvil ins interested as well ( in bootprocess). Apr 22 18:39:44 http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/lxr/source/arch/arm/kernel/atags.c is how things are passed from nolo to kernel Apr 22 18:39:48 fairly standard way Apr 22 18:39:49 I offer one shiny onion as a prize to whomesoever completes this task (to collect). Apr 22 18:44:50 well, that's for the "source==specs==docs" church of insanity. Apr 22 18:45:45 googling omap + atags gave me http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Core_Domain plus a few >>The omap specific ATAGs will be going away soon, so please rely only on the configuration in your board-*.c file<< higher on the hit rank Apr 22 18:46:33 :-P Apr 22 18:46:59 yeah, they are Apr 22 18:47:02 transferring to cmdline Apr 22 18:47:16 SpeedEvil: collect what? Apr 22 18:50:04 man how do u avoid the "mobile" yfrog page from n900? Apr 22 18:50:08 it keeps redirecting me Apr 22 18:50:17 http://yfrog.com Apr 22 18:51:18 dockane, Apr 22 18:51:21 DocScrutinizer, Apr 22 18:51:33 when did I spread rumors about OC riskyness Apr 22 18:52:46 2 days ago? Apr 22 18:53:55 opdf2: you could change your browser id Apr 22 18:54:53 can i just change it for that one site? Apr 22 18:55:10 not that I know of. Apr 22 18:55:26 wouldn't do any harm unless you like mobile sites. Apr 22 18:55:57 hiding your user agent will break ovi store viewed from the device, tho Apr 22 18:56:28 Kamui: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-04-21.log.html#t2010-04-21T21:58:37 Apr 22 18:58:11 nid0: i dont think i ever visit ovi, anything worth seeing? Apr 22 18:58:22 no Apr 22 18:58:59 lol Apr 22 18:59:26 there's always hope that may change if nokia decide to put more than one drunk broken-handed coder's worth of time into coding it Apr 22 19:00:04 any news on a 1.2 OTA Apr 22 19:00:48 no Apr 22 19:01:11 weak sauce Apr 22 19:02:36 * DocScrutinizer throws tabasco extra hot at lirakis Apr 22 19:02:51 right, n8x0 with 2.6.33, first step.. Apr 22 19:02:59 DocScrutinizer, Im a little confused Apr 22 19:03:01 what did I do wrong Apr 22 19:03:03 meh ... tabasco is weak sauce.... got to go to thailand for the real deal Apr 22 19:03:06 hsould I not have talked about the OC at all? Apr 22 19:03:17 I don't remember saying that it was good or bad, jsut that my experience has been good so far Apr 22 19:03:26 been to thailand, whats the not weak sauce? Apr 22 19:03:29 oh, the 1.1ghz comment? Apr 22 19:04:12 Kamui: just I'm alergic to any statement about OC being 'good so far' Apr 22 19:04:17 C-S-B-N900, pekanu <- sp peppers Apr 22 19:04:26 and sambal ... Apr 22 19:04:28 mmmmm Apr 22 19:04:39 sambal olek Apr 22 19:06:07 Kamui: as usually next thing to happen is another fool to jump the train and claiming for him OC is safe as he lives in greenland or sibiria Apr 22 19:07:34 Kamui, OC failures occur in the weeks-to-months timeframe Apr 22 19:08:16 then a crop of 20 fools rushes over all the temperature sensors on the N900 and packaging the 57th 'safe OC kernel - now with temperature watchdog' Apr 22 19:08:34 Kamui, so "good so far" is completely meaningless and lulls people onto a false sense of "this wont kill my device". Apr 22 19:09:01 GAN900: thanks for helping me out, mate Apr 22 19:09:28 Sure thing. ;) Apr 22 19:09:30 GAN900: not quite. Apr 22 19:09:53 GAN900: If there was a statistically valid sample of n900s locked to a gig for a couple of months, that would be a useful datapoint Apr 22 19:09:58 Say 20 phones Apr 22 19:10:15 SpeedEvil, TI has done the testing, no? Apr 22 19:10:49 GAN900: probably - but you may not be able to get them to release those results. Apr 22 19:11:05 SpeedEvil, think there's a PDF. . . . Apr 22 19:11:43 Either way, everything I've heard says it's likely to cause early failure Apr 22 19:11:59 so what kernel should i instal for oc? Apr 22 19:12:02 :) Apr 22 19:12:05 m/ Apr 22 19:12:37 GAN900, and DocScrutinizer, My fault there, I get your point. I understand not everyone is going to be as easily able to replace their device in case of catastrophic failure Apr 22 19:12:37 GAN900: there is a pdf - but it only goes up to the specified clock max, and is undefined for what happens in reality if you clock the chip in the device up to 1G Apr 22 19:12:38 C-S-B-N900, the one called kernel Apr 22 19:13:05 C-S-B-N900: funny, HAHAHA Apr 22 19:13:22 * MohammadAG_ wonders what that was for Apr 22 19:13:38 could be kickban for the regexes :P Apr 22 19:14:29 or for the HAHAHAHAHA Apr 22 19:14:30 MohammadAG_: I'm still dangling on a regex able to get the semantic details Apr 22 19:14:31 how is the battery once you overclock? Apr 22 19:14:50 why do you all want to overclock... Apr 22 19:14:57 and can you run a governer? Apr 22 19:15:03 DocScrutinizer, just ban *overclock* Apr 22 19:15:10 * Treibholz just doesn't understand the kids. Apr 22 19:15:19 maybe I'm too old. Apr 22 19:15:32 then I'll frequently ban myself, on ranting Apr 22 19:15:41 Treibholz, don't insult me! :P Apr 22 19:15:50 i oc'd lots of cpus in my day Apr 22 19:16:04 * MohammadAG_ went back to stock a week or two ago Apr 22 19:16:07 prolly two Apr 22 19:16:12 listened to DocScrutinizer Apr 22 19:16:26 you are the first lol Apr 22 19:16:46 docs is now having a party ;) Apr 22 19:16:51 lmao Apr 22 19:16:54 duh, who's insulted? I don't get it as well, and though everybody knows I'm a grumpy old man, I don't like to get pointed at the fact ;-P Apr 22 19:17:11 docs how young? Apr 22 19:17:25 * MohammadAG_ guesses in the 30s Apr 22 19:17:42 btw how tight do ppl hold n900 around water? Apr 22 19:17:52 very Apr 22 19:17:59 I almost broke it :P Apr 22 19:18:05 yes i need a lanyard strap Apr 22 19:18:10 are you crazy, I don't let it near water Apr 22 19:18:10 nah, it should be safe Apr 22 19:18:11 till my knuckles are white Apr 22 19:18:20 810 had big metal handle Apr 22 19:18:27 I mean, what would water do that rice wouldn't fix Apr 22 19:18:28 :P Apr 22 19:19:05 my 900 is being held tighter than anything Apr 22 19:19:17 DocScrutinizer, I got insulted, he said he hated kids, and kids usually means teens these days :P Apr 22 19:19:18 guys, the hing is basically *open* - like in 'no lid sealing the electronics' Apr 22 19:19:39 it leaks light here, so I got that part :P Apr 22 19:19:50 never get it next to water, not even heavy rain Apr 22 19:19:58 lol, i washed mine Apr 22 19:20:02 the PS3 game? Apr 22 19:20:03 :P Apr 22 19:20:05 it rained in amsterdam Apr 22 19:20:15 lcukn900, two ziplock bags for boating/kayaking. Apr 22 19:20:21 i need to check if maps works now Apr 22 19:20:31 lcukn900, just hold it from the kickstand :P Apr 22 19:20:37 someone mentioned condoms for n810 once Apr 22 19:20:46 moh cant on 900 Apr 22 19:20:54 MohammadAG_: you RMAd your broken vib? Apr 22 19:21:06 * C-S-B-N900 fears for the n900s of the world. Apr 22 19:21:16 DocScrutinizer, RMAd? Apr 22 19:21:36 returned ... Apr 22 19:21:38 i think Apr 22 19:21:47 MohammadAG_: stupid bussines taljk for repair sendin Apr 22 19:21:51 csb it was worse i think there were other smart devices in the bag with randy 810 Apr 22 19:22:07 DocScrutinizer, nope, just sent a dbus command to make it vibrate overnight and it fixed itself Apr 22 19:22:49 LOL Apr 22 19:22:51 mo, how did your vib break? Apr 22 19:23:03 overuse lol Apr 22 19:23:07 debris from fab I suppose Apr 22 19:23:26 * MohammadAG_ slaps lcukn900 with a large trout Apr 22 19:23:28 :P Apr 22 19:23:37 MohammadAG_ milled it to dust XP Apr 22 19:23:38 C-S-B-N900, it broke on day 2 Apr 22 19:23:53 what happened? Apr 22 19:23:54 DocScrutinizer, lol yeah Apr 22 19:24:13 C-S-B-N900, it just stopped working (made a weird sound instead of a vibration) Apr 22 19:24:18 like something was stuck in it Apr 22 19:24:32 which you bet was Apr 22 19:24:39 ouch, well you dislodged whatever was stuck Apr 22 19:24:39 then it worked for a day after I ran for a bit Apr 22 19:24:43 * frals slaps lcuk with bacon... mmm... bacon! Apr 22 19:24:49 be it a component or bacon Apr 22 19:24:54 so I thought it might help if I made it vibrate Apr 22 19:24:56 haha frals Apr 22 19:24:59 mmmh dinner Apr 22 19:26:05 so what's the meaning of [2010-04-22 21:16:04] * MohammadAG_ went back to stock a week or two ago Apr 22 19:26:18 600MHz :) Apr 22 19:26:23 aah kernel Apr 22 19:31:09 you know the cars with elecronic engine management, when they were all new? You had a jumper to tweak the engine to high-grade fuel. And the car got 5% faster when setting that jumper, no matter whether you actually got high-grade or normal fuel. Apr 22 19:31:39 But could you undervolt the car? Apr 22 19:31:45 i was tryin to find a way to quickly post pictures and return URL to me. No plugin exists sooo... I just created a twitter and followed that account. so the link to a yfrog image gets texted to me Apr 22 19:32:00 gevaerts: what is 'undervolting'? Apr 22 19:32:10 lower voltage I assume Apr 22 19:32:15 for the N810 users in here: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/meegoonn810.jpg Apr 22 19:32:18 the "XLV" kernels Apr 22 19:32:26 gevaerts: you got any idea what it does and why it should have any positive effect? Apr 22 19:32:28 short acronyms make them sound cool Apr 22 19:32:35 Stskeeps: nice :) Apr 22 19:32:48 2.6.33 kernel Apr 22 19:32:49 Stskeeps: I really need to buy a new micro or minisd :) Apr 22 19:33:10 DocScrutinizer: it will lower power usage with only the slight inconvenience of possibly making the thing crash all the time Apr 22 19:33:28 gavin: so what? Apr 22 19:33:31 DocScrutinizer, if overclocking (or even locking at 600) causes electromigration, wouldn't "undervoltage-ing" cause it too? Apr 22 19:34:13 undervolting won't *cause* electromigration, but it most likely won't stop it either Apr 22 19:36:10 afaik, lower voltage means less electromigration Apr 22 19:36:15 but then I may be wrong Apr 22 19:36:30 Hi Apr 22 19:36:44 DocScrutinizer: ? Apr 22 19:36:54 oh, autocomplete mistake Apr 22 19:37:13 see, basically in OMAP with SmartReflex every lil function block has its own regulator controlled in a way to ensure lowest power consumption at a given clockrate. Now with undervoltage you simply lower the voltage drop across these mini-regulators, but they will continue to power up the function blocks the are responsible for as soon as the see they need to for ahigher clockfreq Apr 22 19:38:06 gavin: sorry Apr 22 19:38:23 RST38h: ^^^ Apr 22 19:41:03 so current (which is causing electromigration, together with the 'wire diameter') may still be higer on critical pathes at higher clock, even when you massively undervolt *the internal regulators* Apr 22 19:41:48 errm. Apr 22 19:42:01 * MohammadAG_ wants a bigger /home partition Apr 22 19:42:09 ergo-> it's clock freq that matters. NOT voltage, and NOT temperature Apr 22 19:43:03 I meant undervolting on 600MHz undervolting won't *cause* electromigration, but it most likely won't stop it either Apr 22 19:43:06 i'm looking at my n810 serial output.. Apr 22 19:43:16 Core: 658 MHz L3: 109 MHz L4: 109 MHz Apr 22 19:43:16 MPU: 329 MHz DSP: 219 MHz IVA: 109 MHz Apr 22 19:43:20 658? Apr 22 19:43:20 :P Apr 22 19:43:23 It would cause instability, I know (and I'm not really planning on doing it) Apr 22 19:43:57 somebody from germany with an n900 here? Apr 22 19:45:24 MohammadAG_: see above. It might marginally save bat capacity, but at he expense of driving the internal regulators into a non-stable operation range Apr 22 19:45:39 and the regulators wouldn't deliver lower voltage to the compoments even if undervolted themselves? Apr 22 19:45:55 dmj726_n900: exactly Apr 22 19:45:59 which might use the saved battery capacity and result in no change :) Apr 22 19:46:13 Stskeeps: now yum install xfce4 ! Apr 22 19:46:38 * dmj726_n900 is not familiar with the exact operation of the regulators Apr 22 19:46:57 Corsac: if it was built for arm, i would Apr 22 19:47:02 dmj726_n900: that's my understanding of how smartreflex gear fits together at least Apr 22 19:47:39 perhaps they behave like op amps and can be driven out of their linear range? Apr 22 19:50:11 dmj726_n900: all the above from a few sales papers about how great smartreflex is. And adding to that the fact TI is NOT quoting temperature for component wear. AIUI it's a simple freq vs. endurance 2D-table. Which makes perfect sense with the other bits about smartreflex Apr 22 19:50:55 nor is there any factor about core voltage afaik Apr 22 19:51:15 what does their curve say for all the people running at 900 mhz? Apr 22 19:51:42 perhaps they assumed a given voltage? Apr 22 19:51:46 it's just "@500MHz you need at least foo.bar Volt for the OMAP to be stable" Apr 22 19:52:07 though that would seem odd in technical documentation. Apr 22 19:52:09 dmj726_n900: why should they do that?? Apr 22 19:52:16 exactly Apr 22 19:53:31 Documentation almost never mentions performance outside recommended limits Apr 22 19:54:23 * frals slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout Apr 22 19:54:54 * Noobmonk3y eats frals....... Apr 22 19:55:06 hmmmm tastes fishy..... Apr 22 19:55:38 Stskeeps: sorry, i had to go home :) Apr 22 19:55:53 Stskeeps: I guess I shall have to poke at the boot process myself then Apr 22 19:56:17 Stskeeps: or find out who wrote NOLO and ask them. i happen to, er, work for nokia. though not on maemo. ;) Apr 22 19:57:02 SpeedEvil: but if there were some influence of voltage *inside* recommended operation conditions, don't you think TI for sure whould have published it? Apr 22 19:57:20 DocScrutinizer: in an ideal world, that would be nice, yes. Apr 22 19:57:23 Torne: talking to the people behind nolo helps, yes Apr 22 19:57:38 * MohammadAG_ slaps Noobmonk3y Apr 22 19:57:47 Stskeeps: the alternative is to disassemble it, which is also a thing in my power ;) Apr 22 19:57:50 DocScrutinizer: I suspect what we are seeing is a limited number of tests and charachterisateions were done, and we're seeing the worst case extrapolation of those. Apr 22 19:57:56 it might be easier than findign who in nokia to talk to ;)) Apr 22 19:57:58 Torne: n900 or n8x0? Apr 22 19:58:01 n900 Apr 22 19:58:06 k Apr 22 19:58:29 DocScrutinizer: hence - the wierd 'if it ever goes to 600MHz - the life is 20000 hours - even if it's for 1ms - type statement in the ds Apr 22 19:58:34 i just got a free one so i thought i should abuse it horribly Apr 22 19:58:57 but the bootloader being dumb is disapppointing Apr 22 19:59:01 Dissasembly pics are available. Apr 22 19:59:13 From someone that sacrifieced their n900 to get them. (oops) Apr 22 19:59:20 Stskeeps: do you know what happens if you just delete the bootlaodr, btw? Apr 22 19:59:40 Torne: got to get a flashing jig and do a cold flash, -we think- Apr 22 19:59:42 OMAP3 normally resorts to booting from usb/serial/mmc if there's no xloader on NAND Apr 22 19:59:50 can Daemons be made in Python? Apr 22 19:59:52 from other omap3 devices i have Apr 22 19:59:56 or do they have to be C/C++ Apr 22 20:00:13 Torne: IIRC there is an exposed serial port on the battery underneath conectors. Apr 22 20:00:13 SpeedEvil: those tests are extrapolations usually, yes. But not from a few samples to worst case, rather they are based on physical laws aplied to a large number of samples to get quick results on not-really-recommended operation conditions Apr 22 20:00:19 SpeedEvil: yeah, i saw that Apr 22 20:00:27 SpeedEvil: omap3 bootrom has usb serial support though Apr 22 20:00:28 DocScrutinizer: s/tests/simulations/ Apr 22 20:00:32 SpeedEvil: and in fact, mmc support Apr 22 20:00:45 though whether it will be looking on the uSD slot or the eMMC device i don't know Apr 22 20:01:03 it's possible nokia have changed the boot order to something more restricted, of course Apr 22 20:01:09 n900s were made for abusing. (*definitions of abuse vary and do not necessarily void warranty) Apr 22 20:01:25 i assume nobody has experimented too much with intentionally erasing the bootloader ;) Apr 22 20:01:28 DocScrutinizer: I can see no physical explanation of why 1ms of 600MHz would drop tens of thousands hours life Apr 22 20:01:33 Torne: I guess not Apr 22 20:01:52 does the bootloader not get replaced by flashing? Apr 22 20:01:59 lcuk: it can do Apr 22 20:02:12 MohammadAG_: a daemon can be written in any language ;) Apr 22 20:02:15 i should dump it and see if it is indeed a modified version of xloader Apr 22 20:02:16 In many cases, you would not normally want to flash the bootloader. Apr 22 20:02:35 SpeedEvil: well, nolo updates are included in some of the flash images Apr 22 20:02:39 frals, thanks! Apr 22 20:02:41 Torne: What do you normally do in nokia? I'm guessing firmware/ee? Apr 22 20:02:47 SpeedEvil: i'm a symbian kernel developer Apr 22 20:02:50 ah Apr 22 20:02:54 Torne: my condolences Apr 22 20:02:57 * Noobmonk3y slaps MohammadAG_ with lcuk Apr 22 20:03:00 Stskeeps: the symbian kernel is lovely Apr 22 20:03:11 i cannot be held responsible for the rest of S60 :) Apr 22 20:03:17 * lcuk strongly objcets to being used as a trout Apr 22 20:03:21 objects too Apr 22 20:03:32 * MohammadAG_ gives lcuk some bacon Apr 22 20:04:01 what is symbian really like at its core compared to...other things? Apr 22 20:04:01 good stuff too ! its thick cut Apr 22 20:04:10 well you have the tardis Apr 22 20:04:13 dmj726_n900: the same but different. like any OS really :) Apr 22 20:04:17 and you have a star trek warp core Apr 22 20:04:24 :) Apr 22 20:04:27 dmj726_n900: symbian's kernel is hard realtime though,s o it can support a gsm stack Apr 22 20:04:42 both do the same job but one needs to fly around a star to time travel Apr 22 20:04:42 right, this is going to sound like an awesomely stupid question from me. i have a n810 i need to disable omap-wd and retu-wd on, and well, old flasher-3.0 exhibits the "Device or resource busy" problem and new flasher does not support no-omap-wd/no-retu-wd flags Apr 22 20:04:47 well, at least retu one Apr 22 20:04:56 reboot Apr 22 20:05:01 laptop Apr 22 20:05:05 :) Apr 22 20:05:17 SpeedEvil: I need original citation to comment on this Apr 22 20:05:36 silly me is running a gsm stack on a soft rt kernel. Apr 22 20:06:14 you are? Apr 22 20:06:34 I believe maemo is soft rt Apr 22 20:06:42 um Apr 22 20:06:52 there's a seperate module for the stack, afaik Apr 22 20:06:53 N900 has a modem running gsm :P Apr 22 20:07:06 since mainline linux doesn't do hard rt Apr 22 20:07:06 yeah.. the entire flip side of the circuit board.. Apr 22 20:07:22 Torne: you should read the manpage, err README of flasher-3.5 (or whatever the version number) Apr 22 20:08:24 Torne: I seem to remeber there've been options to reflash NOLO etc Apr 22 20:08:31 ah, so symbian does the gsm fully in software, while maemo has to interface with a hardwar unit. Apr 22 20:08:56 are there symbian devices that do it the way the n900 does? Apr 22 20:09:09 dmj726_n900, the ones that claim "Dual CPU", I think Apr 22 20:09:40 dmj726_n900: basically yes. Symbian phones usually have no application processor Apr 22 20:09:54 I think you mean s40 there Apr 22 20:09:56 DocScrut: Actually, they all do have application processors Apr 22 20:10:00 You may mean S40 Apr 22 20:10:45 RST38h: hmm, not sure what's your side / pont in this dissense Apr 22 20:11:09 * RST38h has no sides/ponts in this "dissense". Just stating the fact. Apr 22 20:11:21 although a linux phone could use the rt patches for the kernel. Apr 22 20:11:25 DocScrutinizer: the frequency/life table - it diddn't give a '600MHz ages the chip at rate X, 550MHz at rate Y' - but a life if 550MHz or 600MHz were ever used, and if they were not. Apr 22 20:11:49 RST38h: sorry mate, I find it incredibly hard to start a fruitful discusion with you Apr 22 20:12:02 Hmmm Apr 22 20:12:15 Nokia even lists the CPU used :-) Apr 22 20:12:27 ShadowJK: Has there been any substance abuse while I was away? Apr 22 20:12:34 RST38h, dunno Apr 22 20:13:04 And only recent symbian is able to share CPU with gsm :P Apr 22 20:13:10 * dmj726_n900 has only ever messed with the source for 2 kernels, linux and the basic one I wrote. Apr 22 20:13:22 yes, but it's usually called baseband processor, at least in smartphones. So you could say featurephones use the baseband processor dual usage for apps Apr 22 20:13:34 talk.maemo.org's new slogan: there's a thread for that Apr 22 20:13:48 Perhaps they meant no separate application processor? Apr 22 20:14:26 many in the case of the "n900 sucks" threads. :/ Apr 22 20:14:56 * Arkenoi wonders why earlier desktop processors were not affected by electromigration that much? Apr 22 20:15:19 Arkenoi: much 'thicker wires' Apr 22 20:15:39 what's the point of using the general cpu when a dedicated unit can be used...cutting the manufacturing cost? Apr 22 20:16:06 dmj726_n900, exactly Apr 22 20:16:11 4 atoms thick vs 400 makes a difference. Apr 22 20:16:40 We'd probably not want linux to run the gsm part, think of all the gigantic blobs ;-) Apr 22 20:16:55 Stskeeps, did that work? Apr 22 20:17:34 yeah...unless we had open source gsm stack and drivers! Apr 22 20:17:46 which carriers would freak out over. Apr 22 20:18:08 not that gsm is exactly secure these days. Apr 22 20:18:21 lcuk: yes Apr 22 20:18:27 \o/ Apr 22 20:18:46 dmj726_n900: http://gnuradio.org/redmine/wiki/1/OpenBTSFAQ#Do-you-realize-that-the-GPLv3-patent-license-requirements-prevent-GPLv3-distributions-from-being-used-in-most-commercial-GSM-applications Apr 22 20:18:49 actually no phones run gsm under symbian yet ;) Apr 22 20:18:57 well, from my understanding it's harder to crack than wep. Apr 22 20:18:59 it's possible, but nobody is doing it Apr 22 20:19:10 nokia devices run symbian as a task under NOS, their proprietary RTOS Apr 22 20:19:19 so, still a single processor, but two opreating systems Apr 22 20:19:34 other manufacturers do various weird combinatinos, either two processors or simlar hackery Apr 22 20:19:41 rtos? nos? Apr 22 20:20:15 dmj726_n900: random guess. NOS might be nokia os. and rtos is 'real-time os' Apr 22 20:20:37 that would have been my guess Apr 22 20:20:55 * gevaerts suspects that Symbian won't be RT anymore in that setup :) Apr 22 20:21:16 not like it matters when nothing rt is running in symbian :P Apr 22 20:21:29 hmm...I always thought symbian would be the primary...so they're doing something like a chroot? Apr 22 20:21:41 more like xen? Apr 22 20:22:01 NOS basically runs entirely in interrupt context Apr 22 20:22:13 symbian gets its interrupts handed to it by NOS Apr 22 20:22:44 so yes, kindaa like a *really* dumb hypervisor :) Apr 22 20:23:02 except they both have teh same permissions really and can stomp on each other. hooray. Apr 22 20:23:05 anyway. Apr 22 20:23:19 i'll dump the bootloader off my n900 later and have a look and see how much it resembles xloader Apr 22 20:23:50 something can probably be done. maybe load a modified u-bootin place of the linux kernel. Apr 22 20:24:08 well, it loads zimages :P Apr 22 20:24:17 which it does pretty well, so none of us have toyed with it Apr 22 20:24:21 a zimage isn't really *anything*, though Apr 22 20:24:26 it's just an arbitrary binary blob Apr 22 20:24:34 ...that sounds awkward Apr 22 20:24:34 you know, alot of people would be interested in replacing the bootloader on symbian devices ;) Apr 22 20:24:36 you pass machien type in r1, atag poitner in r2, and that's it Apr 22 20:24:47 ShadowJK: symbian devices ha ve secure flashing procedures Apr 22 20:24:54 ShadowJK: specifically to stop you doing this kind of shit Apr 22 20:25:09 Torne: sure's there's no signing check on a n900 on the bootloader though? Apr 22 20:25:22 Stskeeps: it's just a mtd partition, no? Apr 22 20:25:32 unless you can't unlock it., which is possible Apr 22 20:25:35 i've not triwed yet Apr 22 20:25:38 i only got my n900 6 hours ago Apr 22 20:25:42 hehe Apr 22 20:25:45 have fun i guess :) Apr 22 20:25:56 i don't want to really ;) Apr 22 20:26:04 Trizt: ping Apr 22 20:26:15 trying to replace the bootlaoder without finding out how to recover would be silly ;) Apr 22 20:26:52 i *suspect* you can use the omap3 bootrom's recovery methods. Maybe, :) but it would be a pain to find out taht's not the case. Apr 22 20:27:04 foodtime, anyway ;) Apr 22 20:27:33 too bad I can't boot x86 live usbs *on* the n900. Apr 22 20:27:43 get a club so you can chase down someone with Phoenix and the appropriate rig, club them and steal their rig Apr 22 20:27:44 qemu-system-x86 Apr 22 20:27:45 :P Apr 22 20:27:53 qemu runs on n900? Apr 22 20:28:13 my microsd is a liveusb Apr 22 20:28:30 quite speedy too. Apr 22 20:29:27 * DocScrutinizer thinks >80h are enough to justify a lttle nap finally Apr 22 20:31:41 joga: In principle it would. Apr 22 20:31:44 wow. didn't even notice there is a stand on the camera :) Apr 22 20:31:52 that's good to know heh Apr 22 20:32:10 joga: The speed is likely to be of the order of a 386/40 or so I suspect. Apr 22 20:32:39 SpeedEvil: as long as it works ; Apr 22 20:32:40 ;) Apr 22 20:40:36 macer: didn't notice the stand? Apr 22 20:41:20 no Apr 22 20:41:25 not til now haha Apr 22 20:41:27 awesome Apr 22 20:41:45 how long have you had it? Apr 22 20:41:54 p6 chip! Apr 22 20:42:03 triple the speed of the pentium!! Apr 22 20:42:08 n900 has a way of hiding features. Apr 22 20:44:15 who wants to try vista in qemu on their N900? Apr 22 20:44:28 barf Apr 22 20:44:41 what's the point? Apr 22 20:45:01 6 hour boot up time I would guess. Apr 22 20:45:12 on a pc? ;) Apr 22 20:45:45 ...software rendering for directx 10 titles in a vm on an arm machine! Apr 22 20:46:03 I guess the advantage of running it on the n900 would be that at least you'd have 6 extra hours when you weren't running vista Apr 22 20:46:12 lol Apr 22 20:47:16 I will give vista credit for having a better security model than versions like windows me. Apr 22 20:47:37 "click cancel to login" Apr 22 20:47:45 i.e., pester the user whenever possible Apr 22 20:49:17 It's like they implemented gksudo badly. Apr 22 20:50:08 * Torne wonders what the log partition on the flash is for Apr 22 20:50:27 firewood Apr 22 20:50:45 Torne: CAL, maybe? Apr 22 20:51:11 * lardman regrets doing crosswords on the train Apr 22 20:51:17 Stskeeps: what? Apr 22 20:52:18 Torne: well, there's an area containing various configuration settings in the flash Apr 22 20:52:56 Stskeeps: yeah, i saw that, mtd1. mtd2 is called "log" and contains nothing, though ) Apr 22 20:53:00 lardman, miss your stop? Apr 22 20:53:22 lardman, mugged and N900-less now? Apr 22 20:53:23 GAN900: nah, some volcano screwed up my flight to Scotland Apr 22 20:53:40 pah, nothing could part me from my N900.... Apr 22 20:54:01 * SpeedEvil waves some bacon. Apr 22 20:54:05 hmmmm Apr 22 20:54:11 mmmmm Apr 22 20:54:14 SpeedEvil: how much bacon for an n900? Apr 22 20:54:17 BLT \o/ Apr 22 20:54:17 ;) Apr 22 20:54:49 Stskeeps: there's a load of references to CAL and certificates in the bootloader image, b ut i have no idea waht that is Apr 22 20:55:13 Torne: i guess log would be something for kernel crashes Apr 22 20:55:35 there are some hilarious strings int he bootloader in fact Apr 22 20:55:43 "Waiting for the kernel to magically appear" Apr 22 20:55:52 "Yup, there it is. Stand by for some Linux pleasure. Apr 22 20:56:22 and lots of references to serial console Apr 22 20:56:34 :) Apr 22 20:57:29 /dev/mtd2 seems to have an oops here Apr 22 20:57:41 so yes, it's for kernel crashes Apr 22 20:57:44 ah Apr 22 20:57:47 that's boring then Apr 22 20:58:02 depends on what you're doing :) Apr 22 21:03:33 * Arkenoi wonders how long it takes before we see first n900's fried with 1.2GHz @1.5V Apr 22 21:03:52 gevaerts: strings /dev/mtd0ro is very amusing Apr 22 21:04:51 hey all Apr 22 21:05:00 how easy is it to actually really 'boot' debian on the N900? Apr 22 21:05:17 off a MicroSD card Apr 22 21:06:22 PhonicUK: there is a way in early boot to get it to call a script - the normal boot process If you did a picviot_root onto microSD, ... Apr 22 21:07:01 is that the method used where you slide out the keyboard to get a multi-boot loader? Apr 22 21:11:52 Extended battery with 2400 mAh capacity is available for N900 Apr 22 21:12:10 where? Apr 22 21:12:24 Mugen Apr 22 21:12:30 is it larger than the original? Apr 22 21:12:37 yes Apr 22 21:12:41 how much? Apr 22 21:12:52 and it disables the microSD and apps that require an open camera Apr 22 21:13:00 ah Apr 22 21:13:02 (like flashlight) Apr 22 21:13:16 so you can't use the camera either? Apr 22 21:13:18 uh, no dice then Apr 22 21:13:24 PhonicUK, http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900.html Apr 22 21:13:38 PhonicUK, you can use it, take off the battery cover to see how it would work Apr 22 21:13:45 ah i see Apr 22 21:13:54 haha Apr 22 21:13:57 that's ghetto Apr 22 21:13:58 bug buys a diesel generator for n900 i get several months of uptime, but the wheelbarrow to carry it is a bit hefty Apr 22 21:14:05 PhonicUK: yes Apr 22 21:14:07 -bug + /me Apr 22 21:14:15 lcuk: there's always a solar jacket :) Apr 22 21:14:18 speedevil, ? Apr 22 21:14:30 roll on atomic batteries, I say Apr 22 21:14:39 Mugen battery is ugly as hell Apr 22 21:14:40 can you get them to wrap the generator? Apr 22 21:14:42 just walk into walmart.. you'll get a full charge in 5 mins with a solar jacket Apr 22 21:14:53 lcuk, run it off bacon Apr 22 21:14:59 I'm sure it'd work :P Apr 22 21:15:01 whats the mass of the bacon? Apr 22 21:15:02 i wonder why fail so miserably though e90 one was quite decent Apr 22 21:15:10 E = mc^2 :) Apr 22 21:15:10 MohammadAG_, thats like a perpetual motion machine Apr 22 21:15:11 <3 my e90 Apr 22 21:15:19 you need external power source to cook the bacon Apr 22 21:15:35 slide out keyboard, add rasher, push it back under for a few minutes at 600mhz Apr 22 21:15:36 you have overclocking and joikuspot for that Apr 22 21:15:53 its even got drip tray Apr 22 21:15:58 no former boxer required Apr 22 21:16:01 roffle Apr 22 21:16:02 XD Apr 22 21:16:13 I'd do it at 850mhz, I like crispy bacon Apr 22 21:16:19 1200 it is Apr 22 21:16:26 mugen shipped replacement cover today. I guess it'll arrive next week :) Apr 22 21:16:28 no thanks PhonicUK the fuse will blow Apr 22 21:16:45 ShadowJK, replacement as in fixes the overlooked issues? Apr 22 21:16:45 you would think that by now a hundred years later.. they'd have come up with a better way to accelerate electrons other than steam Apr 22 21:16:46 ShadowJK, what's different with it? Apr 22 21:16:50 That's annoying, I just completed the mod of the original mugen cover yesterday, to give me back microsd and flashlight Apr 22 21:16:56 lol Apr 22 21:17:19 I won't buy one until they make working camera slide and n800-style stand Apr 22 21:17:21 MohammadAG, yes presumably it restores microsd :P Apr 22 21:17:31 n900 was made for tim the tool man taylor Apr 22 21:17:37 actually it annoys me much that n900 is not handy to put on table and type Apr 22 21:17:41 ShadowJK, what about the flashlight app :) Apr 22 21:17:47 Arkenoi, i do that all the time :\ Apr 22 21:17:49 Does the mugen battery have additional space over the microSD card? Apr 22 21:17:50 Arkenoi, mine does? Apr 22 21:17:53 with the stand up and the keyboard out Apr 22 21:17:56 SpeedEvil, yeah Apr 22 21:18:23 ShadowJK, is it enough to store another battery? :P Apr 22 21:18:29 if you do not use stand, you need a piece of cloth to put under to fix it, if you do you should watch for the damn thing not to fall down Apr 22 21:18:29 no it's not Apr 22 21:18:47 ShadowJK, do two Nokia batteries fit under the mugen cover? Apr 22 21:18:54 i dont have two Apr 22 21:18:59 damn Apr 22 21:19:09 * MohammadAG looks up measurements Apr 22 21:19:49 n900 on virgin train table with stand out rattles when watching movie if the keyboard is up Apr 22 21:20:00 so i put a tissue under it too :$ Apr 22 21:20:33 I put my maths book under it Apr 22 21:20:34 e90 cover was just to fit the battery, no empty space under Apr 22 21:20:43 feels so comfy, and actually useful Apr 22 21:21:19 you should be reading your maths book \@ Apr 22 21:21:32 and if they do it that wide, why not to make it thinner instead of leaving empty space? Apr 22 21:21:34 Arkenoi, I think they thought having equal thickness all over would be more sensible, than having a third of the phone original thickness :P Apr 22 21:22:25 lcuk, I read it a couple times :P Apr 22 21:22:52 I never figured out how all those theories were made Apr 22 21:23:03 making a whole new programming language might be easier :P Apr 22 21:23:20 You could maybe have an overhang towards the left of the phone, but it'd have to be rigid and not too thick, and elevated a bit, as to still allow insertion of battery.. it'd be damn expensive Apr 22 21:23:30 didnt some of the equations come essentially from that Apr 22 21:23:50 having to make a whole new branch of mathematics just to justify their theory Apr 22 21:23:56 N810 extended batteyr also has empty space under the cover :-) Apr 22 21:25:00 and iirc e90 battery was twice cheaper and had 30% bigger capacity (3600mAh) Apr 22 21:25:59 it's not twice cheaper Apr 22 21:26:06 can the N900 boot directly off the MicroSD slot? Apr 22 21:26:48 I wouldn't trust the stated capacities unless someone tested it. The mugen 1800mAh battery for N800 turned out to be 1200-1300mAh (original Nokia.com one was 1500mAh), for example. Apr 22 21:26:56 PhonicUK, yes Apr 22 21:27:03 awesome Apr 22 21:27:07 ah, so basically the E90 battery door only covers the battery Apr 22 21:27:12 i want to put debian on a MicroSD and boot straight into it Apr 22 21:27:39 PhonicUK, easier just to go with Mer Apr 22 21:27:44 Mer? Apr 22 21:27:44 won't be accelerated though Apr 22 21:27:48 ~mer Apr 22 21:27:49 mer is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Apr 22 21:27:58 i want my accelerated goodness Apr 22 21:28:02 ~thanks Apr 22 21:28:02 MohammadAG: no worries Apr 22 21:28:45 and i don't want a phone desktop Apr 22 21:28:49 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HIGH-CAP-GOLD-BL-5J-BATTERY-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ320508127680QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item4a9fc5e9c0 for some obscure reason this asshole has all-positive feedback, from almost 200 people who where fooled only one complained! Apr 22 21:28:52 why does apt-get upgrade show more packages than choosing upgrade in app manager does? Apr 22 21:29:03 PhonicUK, it uses hildon-desktop Apr 22 21:29:09 yah i don't want hildon :P Apr 22 21:29:10 but the rest is Ubuntu Apr 22 21:29:16 PhonicUK, install LXDE Apr 22 21:29:24 i also want 3D tho :P Apr 22 21:29:34 till Nokia open up the driver, you won't Apr 22 21:29:45 or i can use the N900 kernel + modules instead :P Apr 22 21:29:46 Arkenoi, everybody is scared of retaliation feedback :P Apr 22 21:29:49 and stupid Apr 22 21:29:56 also its TI's driver IIRC, not Nokias Apr 22 21:30:06 PhonicUK, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMwlchuqsXo Apr 22 21:30:11 this ruins the whole reputation idea Apr 22 21:30:33 Anyway, people that don't change phones every year like we do, would probably see a benefit from that battery, as after 2-3 years, any shitty newfly manufactured battery is going to have higher capacity than a battery made 3 years ago ;-) Apr 22 21:32:18 * Arkenoi changed phones once a 2-3 years before, as new communicators were launched at that rate Apr 22 21:32:41 N900evil, since the cover adds 7mm thickness to N900, that's probably how much extra space you've got directly above the microsd card Apr 22 21:33:15 There's no extra space around the flash+camera module Apr 22 21:33:27 Arkenoi: i encountered a dishonest ebay seller who achieved positive feedback by claiming he couldn't give refunds without good feedback first Apr 22 21:33:28 * Arkenoi wonders if there could be such a thing as microSD - to - fullsize SD converter with external wiring and solt Apr 22 21:33:35 * MohammadAG is considering the Mugen battery Apr 22 21:33:38 s/solt/slot/ Apr 22 21:33:45 Really want to get rid of the blue haze in my images Apr 22 21:33:57 Arkenoi: when i refused, he basically spun things out through a paypal dispute till it was too late to give feedback - perhaps this guy works in the same way Apr 22 21:34:22 and, infuriatingly, this guy had very good feedback even though he was selling dodgy RAM Apr 22 21:34:35 BCMM: isn't it a violation of ebay ToS? Apr 22 21:34:47 you may fill a complaint Apr 22 21:34:48 Arkenoi: yeah, thus the paypal dispute Apr 22 21:34:56 Arkenoi: yeah, i did Apr 22 21:35:10 ..and? Apr 22 21:35:17 Arkenoi: got my money back too, but he managed to spin it out past the feedback deadline Apr 22 21:35:27 Arkenoi, well there was a guy who has made such an adapter for N810's miniSD. Comes with new back door that adds thickness, to fit the new SD slot that's screwed onto the back of the N810. The mugen thick battery for N810 and the SD adapter fits under the mugen battery door, too. Apr 22 21:35:32 ebay should ban him completely Apr 22 21:35:53 Arkenoi: yeah, i asked them and they were... vague Apr 22 21:36:31 Arkenoi: something along the lines of "just because there is nothing visibly doesn't mean we aren't doing something about it blah blah privacy rules blah" Apr 22 21:36:41 ^visibly happening Apr 22 21:36:51 assholes. they will fsck your brains out if you use your friends' credit card under his permission, and they do not care about obvious fraud. Apr 22 21:37:47 Arkenoi: well, he found himself a wonderfully grey area - advertising hi-density RAM as standard (which it is, sort of, but the standard doesn't permit it in desktop systems and desktop motherboard never support it) Apr 22 21:37:51 the Credit Card Cartell and the Banks here actually consider use of another person's card, with or without permission, as fraud :-) Apr 22 21:37:59 night all Apr 22 21:38:30 Arkenoi: but he should've been banned right away for asking for threatening extra costs for giving bad feedback Apr 22 21:38:56 paypal and ebay really don't seem to coordinate too well given they they are the same company Apr 22 21:39:48 ShadowJK, orly? if he can pay for me in restaurant , why cannot he do the same on ebay? there is NOTHING in ToS prohibiting it, i am damn sure. Apr 22 21:40:15 i do not "use" his card, actually Apr 22 21:40:27 speaking of which im sure iver still got that file around somewhere with hundreds of cc details Apr 22 21:40:32 my bank never got back to me Apr 22 21:41:12 lcuk: what? Apr 22 21:41:23 i asked them to SHOW me exactly how ToS or bank rules prohibits them Apr 22 21:41:23 i got an email ages ago now Apr 22 21:41:41 containing a massive list of contact details and credit card info Apr 22 21:41:54 they did not. they kept talking about "inconsistency" and failed to show exactly what it was Apr 22 21:42:01 i contacted my bank fraud department and asked if they would be interested in taking them off me Apr 22 21:42:06 BCMM: paypal and ebay seem to co-ordinate exceptionally well in taking as much of your money in fees as possible Apr 22 21:42:12 if that was in person i'd give that asshole damn good punch in the face Apr 22 21:42:17 lcuk, can I have a copy? Apr 22 21:42:17 no jokes Apr 22 21:42:23 no Apr 22 21:42:26 * MohammadAG gives lcuk a truck of bacon Apr 22 21:42:32 sure? Apr 22 21:42:33 lcuk: you know, that really isn't the sort of thing you should mention on IRC - you'll get a million and one lame hacking attempts slowing your connection down :) Apr 22 21:42:35 :P Apr 22 21:42:56 * MohammadAG stops the port scan Apr 22 21:43:05 nah BCMM, I doubt anyone would do it Apr 22 21:43:13 BCMM, unfortunately its rather piffly - places lose hundreds of thousands of the same things Apr 22 21:43:26 lcuk: you might want to delete that, and write zeros over it a thousand times Apr 22 21:43:33 why? Apr 22 21:43:44 ank wasnt interested in it Apr 22 21:43:49 bank Apr 22 21:43:53 zeros are overrated Apr 22 21:44:03 Well, if they found porn of 2 year olds on your computer, the phrase "it just got sent to me in email so I saved it" isn't going to cut it Apr 22 21:44:19 lol Apr 22 21:44:25 well unsurprisingly thats not what we are talking about Apr 22 21:44:39 what if i save it to the cloud? Apr 22 21:44:50 There is no could! Apr 22 21:45:30 that'd be interesting, because even in email form, it's technically stored in the "cloud" under your account Apr 22 21:45:33 anyone know what the env var is to make SDL use Pulseaudio instead of ALSA? Apr 22 21:46:23 #sdl? Apr 22 21:46:36 ? Apr 22 21:47:15 PhonicUK: tripzero meant "Go ask in #SDL" Apr 22 21:47:21 ah Apr 22 21:47:43 export SDL_AUDIODRIVER='pulse' Apr 22 21:47:44 :) Apr 22 21:47:53 SDL is broken in the debian chroot :\ Apr 22 21:48:59 is there any easy way of showing the last two letters from the output of a command? Apr 22 21:49:09 (preferably not awk) Apr 22 21:49:19 tail -c 2 Apr 22 21:49:57 PhonicUK, THANKS! Apr 22 21:50:14 no worries Apr 22 21:50:26 i have to spend most of my time at work dealing with shell scripts xD Apr 22 21:50:28 lcuk:was it CFS? Apr 22 21:50:43 PhonicUK, ain't ye lucky :) Apr 22 21:50:47 not really :P Apr 22 21:51:01 lol why Apr 22 21:51:17 It's a big company Apr 22 21:51:18 crashanddie, ? Apr 22 21:51:24 me being here is very circular in a way Apr 22 21:51:30 since i work for Nokia Siemens Networks :P Apr 22 21:51:31 shells are cool, till someone gives you a script with rm -rf /(wildcard) :P Apr 22 21:51:35 lcuk: who sent you the cc list? Apr 22 21:52:14 i cant remember Apr 22 21:52:31 djeezus I hate how people behave on the mailing lists Apr 22 21:55:11 and some guys really need to read their writings before sending them out Apr 22 21:56:03 "I tried to get this to work a while ago, yet couldn't get all of the BIOS bugs worked out well enough to even get to the point that Linux wouldn't boot." <-- So you couldn't get Linux not-to-boot? Strong OS! Apr 22 21:57:11 And some guy has a name "Bullokles". Anyone else read that as "bollocks"? Apr 22 22:06:09 PhonicUK, is there an opposite of tail to read the first two characters? Apr 22 22:06:16 head Apr 22 22:06:19 head Apr 22 22:06:31 or some implementations of tail let you use a negative number Apr 22 22:06:34 c'mon, you could've guessed that Apr 22 22:06:42 I did, but -c didn't work :P Apr 22 22:06:47 it might be -b Apr 22 22:06:56 MohammadAG: ah, busybox ftw probably Apr 22 22:07:08 crashanddie, indeed (grrrr) Apr 22 22:07:20 eeh -c should work according to the man page :\ Apr 22 22:07:26 unless busybox has a nonstandard implementation Apr 22 22:07:30 which would suck balls Apr 22 22:07:33 doesn't it always? Apr 22 22:07:33 PhonicUK: yeah, could be Apr 22 22:07:35 :) Apr 22 22:07:37 hehe Apr 22 22:07:41 1 sec ill check Apr 22 22:08:01 oh that sucks Apr 22 22:08:04 :D Apr 22 22:08:05 lol Apr 22 22:08:31 hmpf. down to 10 minutes battery time. fully charged. Apr 22 22:08:41 ~ $ head --help Apr 22 22:08:41 BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) multi-call binary Apr 22 22:08:41 Usage: head [OPTION]... [FILE]... Apr 22 22:08:43 MohammadAG: erhm, tail -c 5 works here Apr 22 22:08:44 so helpful Apr 22 22:09:18 ~ $ set | grep LANG | tail -c 7 | head -c 2 Apr 22 22:09:18 head: invalid option -- c Apr 22 22:09:25 crashanddie, not here ^ Apr 22 22:09:43 MohammadAG: tail -c Apr 22 22:09:50 MohammadAG: head is the one giving an error Apr 22 22:10:31 err Apr 22 22:10:35 got it Apr 22 22:10:40 crashanddie, why did you say tail worked lol Apr 22 22:10:41 cut -c 1,2 Apr 22 22:10:52 echo fooo | cut -c 1,2 Apr 22 22:10:52 fo Apr 22 22:11:03 ~ $ set | grep LANG | tail -c 7 | cut -c 1,2 Apr 22 22:11:04 en Apr 22 22:11:05 worked :) Apr 22 22:11:11 thanks again PhonicUK Apr 22 22:11:14 no worries Apr 22 22:11:27 ah theres a better way to do what you're doing Apr 22 22:11:28 (why isn't there an easier way to find the language of the device? Apr 22 22:11:34 ) Apr 22 22:11:48 PhonicUK, there is? Apr 22 22:11:52 yah 1 moment Apr 22 22:11:59 echo $LANG|cut -f 1 -d _ Apr 22 22:12:16 not what i had in mind but pretty cool Apr 22 22:12:24 lol Apr 22 22:12:30 so set actually sets variables Apr 22 22:12:31 :P Apr 22 22:12:41 set w/o params just shows all the vars Apr 22 22:12:44 kinda like export Apr 22 22:12:49 yeah Apr 22 22:12:50 env Apr 22 22:12:59 which is what I was doing Apr 22 22:13:02 should be the one you use for queries Apr 22 22:13:06 $LC_NAME Apr 22 22:13:23 MohammadAG: btw, the tail -c worked :P I don't care what you say Apr 22 22:13:28 echo $LC_NAME | cut -f 2 -d _ Apr 22 22:13:39 it's the head that failed Apr 22 22:13:40 crashanddie, it's head that was causing me problems lol Apr 22 22:13:47 lol I know! Apr 22 22:14:02 < crashanddie> it's the head that failed <-- I have the same problem with 30% of the women I meet! Apr 22 22:14:06 PhonicUK: why LC_NAME? Apr 22 22:14:10 LOL Apr 22 22:14:12 LC = localization Apr 22 22:14:24 yes, but why that one? Apr 22 22:14:26 PhonicUK: lies Apr 22 22:14:32 PhonicUK: LC = LOLCATS Apr 22 22:14:34 language != localization Apr 22 22:14:37 also, lol Apr 22 22:14:45 lmao Apr 22 22:14:55 LANG is the language of the device right? Apr 22 22:15:12 actually, I just realized what I'm doing might fail Apr 22 22:15:17 IIRC, LANG doesn't change, LC_whatever can be changed Apr 22 22:15:28 since the app doesn't have all languages on the device Apr 22 22:15:33 so if you where after keyboard layout, you'd probably use $LANG Apr 22 22:15:44 if you wanted the system language used for menus etc, you'd use LC_NAME Apr 22 22:16:05 IIRC, YMMV, IANAG, etc Apr 22 22:17:18 PhonicUK, http://pastebin.com/wvUUKGRV Apr 22 22:17:21 that's what I'm doing Apr 22 22:17:28 an ugly way of changing a language Apr 22 22:17:34 the* Apr 22 22:17:37 of an app Apr 22 22:17:52 ah i see Apr 22 22:20:34 n900 refuses to go lower then C2 despite cpu is idle. any idea what to do? Apr 22 22:21:24 hi arp Apr 22 22:21:28 aep :) Apr 22 22:21:37 C2? Apr 22 22:21:43 aep: check out what i made http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP7zty5Kg7g Apr 22 22:21:45 250MHz? Apr 22 22:21:48 naali running on the n900 :) Apr 22 22:21:55 wuut Apr 22 22:21:59 yep Apr 22 22:22:19 ogre 1.7 or 1.8 how you like it, with GLES 1.x rendering system Apr 22 22:22:20 hey has anyone tried to compile BZFlag with an OpenGL -> OglES wrapper? Apr 22 22:22:21 for ARM Apr 22 22:22:31 its pretty smooth also :) check the video Apr 22 22:22:31 OOOH OGRE!!! Apr 22 22:22:44 WANT Apr 22 22:22:46 aww its only 1.x Apr 22 22:22:49 * MohammadAG is confused Apr 22 22:22:51 i want 2.x :P Apr 22 22:22:59 PhonicUK: havent been able to load the GLES2 rendering system Apr 22 22:23:09 it buids Apr 22 22:23:13 and links to GLESv2 Apr 22 22:23:19 I want to port my game to OGRE Apr 22 22:23:24 it currently uses Truevision Apr 22 22:23:38 http://phonicuk.com/software/Ballistic.aspx Apr 22 22:23:45 watch it then worship me as a god Apr 22 22:23:47 but ogre refuses to load the plugin Apr 22 22:24:10 hmm interesting Apr 22 22:24:22 that would be actually usable with touchscreen Apr 22 22:24:22 Pforce: nice stuff. Apr 22 22:24:31 never believed you'd get it working Apr 22 22:24:38 what would be usable with touchscreen? Apr 22 22:24:47 well neither did anyone else, did that in 2 weeks so :P Apr 22 22:24:57 most of it was the custom maemo ui and camera controls Apr 22 22:25:02 and touch screen input Apr 22 22:25:23 PhonicUK: good music :) Apr 22 22:25:35 ta, its just one of the youtube audioswap tracks xD Apr 22 22:25:54 yeah recognised my firs track too Apr 22 22:26:05 then i put something that it wont, plus some finnish music at the end :) Apr 22 22:26:08 i uploaded with no audio Apr 22 22:26:13 ah Apr 22 22:26:24 watch the vid of the level editor :) Apr 22 22:26:29 and the Lua goodness :) Apr 22 22:26:41 uuh lots of wakups from omap2_mcspi Apr 22 22:26:41 aep: what aer you working on the n900? Apr 22 22:26:48 it has a built in mini Lua IDE with autocompletion, intelisense, etc Apr 22 22:26:59 Pforce: my own client of course. i was faster :Ü Apr 22 22:27:02 * :P Apr 22 22:27:15 PhonicUK: fail, only win Apr 22 22:27:17 right Apr 22 22:27:24 crashanddie, eh? Apr 22 22:27:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrVxARjYA10 :) Apr 22 22:27:33 PhonicUK: only windows :( Apr 22 22:27:35 could give that thing another go now that i know what im doing :) Apr 22 22:27:37 for now Apr 22 22:27:38 Pforce: but it cant render anything usefull, so i'd declare this a win for naali :D Apr 22 22:27:40 its not gna stay like that Apr 22 22:27:48 PhonicUK: and then i had a game like that on the playstation about 15 years ago Apr 22 22:27:50 not a competition :) Apr 22 22:28:02 not with a level editor and lua scripting you didn't :P Apr 22 22:28:18 or bump mapped textures + specular lighting + bloom + shader water :P Apr 22 22:28:30 some of the levels ive made look awesome if i may say so myself :) Apr 22 22:28:33 if a little blocky Apr 22 22:28:37 Pforce: actually right now i'm working in improving the battery life. 10 minutes is not even enough to walk from PC to car Apr 22 22:28:53 :D Apr 22 22:29:08 mine stands for ~2 days with normal use Apr 22 22:29:17 naali blasting all the time its more like 2 hours :) Apr 22 22:29:27 dude, that's like saying "I reimplemented mario with pixel shaders in DirectX 10" "Oh, cool, 3D?" "3D? Who needs 3D!! This is MAARIIOOO" Apr 22 22:30:00 the water shaders are kind of irrelevant if your just moving a ball around :D Apr 22 22:30:09 except when the ball falls in the water Apr 22 22:30:10 and other fancy stuff Apr 22 22:30:18 good point Apr 22 22:30:28 i guess :) Apr 22 22:30:41 the hard part was dealing with alpha sorting :\ Apr 22 22:31:01 aep: maybe you can switch to ogre as it seems to handle the rendering quite well on the n900 Apr 22 22:31:04 one region at least Apr 22 22:31:07 its still not perfect, but its good enough Apr 22 22:31:16 then again i havent tried heavy scenes yet Apr 22 22:31:27 Pforce: nah, then i could just work on naali Apr 22 22:31:44 maybe you can? :) Apr 22 22:31:50 lot of things have changed Apr 22 22:31:53 since then Apr 22 22:32:01 actually, i would, if i did have time for it anyway Apr 22 22:32:07 sleepy time, night all Apr 22 22:32:10 nit Apr 22 22:32:13 night Apr 22 22:32:27 Pforce: i'm maintaining a whole distro now, not much time left for toys :( Apr 22 22:32:29 aep: heh, understandable :) Apr 22 22:32:40 oh that what you linked back then Apr 22 22:32:50 yup Apr 22 22:32:59 so it got interest? Apr 22 22:33:03 like people are using it Apr 22 22:33:10 nope. who cares. Apr 22 22:33:16 i use it. Apr 22 22:33:18 heh :) Apr 22 22:33:23 and the 4 people who develop it Apr 22 22:36:04 Pforce: 5 years ago i worked for Valeo, we made the same thing you just did on the n900, except we had nothing moveable Apr 22 22:36:33 definatly something the car industry is looking for. they put millions of dollars in their shows Apr 22 22:37:20 like a online showroom Apr 22 22:37:26 thats kind of what our audi world is Apr 22 22:37:57 yeah, did that, except it wasnt online :/ Apr 22 22:38:04 :) Apr 22 22:38:11 times have changed a bit, hehe Apr 22 22:38:28 yeah. realextend rocks. Apr 22 22:39:29 The alarm is very weak on this phone. It's actually quite soothing Apr 22 22:39:36 * aep back to finding out why the fsck the map driver eats so much battery Apr 22 22:39:40 aep: you should participate on the meego stuff Apr 22 22:39:47 as you know so much of the os stuff Apr 22 22:40:07 Pforce: i don't think they want participants Apr 22 22:40:19 i tought it was made "public" just for that Apr 22 22:40:24 :P Apr 22 22:40:34 the community has been quite hostile, which is why i usually just sit in my dark corner and do my own crap Apr 22 22:41:02 i applied for qt-software though, so i might have some indirect effect Apr 22 22:41:03 shame to hear that Apr 22 22:41:20 to work for qt? :) thats cool Apr 22 22:41:22 wow Apr 22 22:41:28 i hope :) Apr 22 22:41:47 i guess the qxt or what was it is a really nice thing in the resume there :D Apr 22 22:41:50 its one of the communites i helped building, so i get to remove hostile entities :P Apr 22 22:42:01 yeah, it is. Apr 22 22:42:12 nice i hope you get that Apr 22 22:42:14 and my sl viewer was too. i actually sent it in as code example Apr 22 22:42:19 would that mean moving or Apr 22 22:42:32 yup. to norway. my true home Apr 22 22:42:40 <3 Apr 22 22:42:42 well all works out then :) Apr 22 22:42:55 let me know how it goes Apr 22 22:43:05 will do :) Apr 22 22:43:07 i was under the impression that qt maemo stuff was made in germany Apr 22 22:43:16 explains why i dont like them Apr 22 22:43:20 :D Apr 22 22:43:23 hehe Apr 22 22:43:28 i just can't get along with germans. dunno. Apr 22 22:43:52 its always about authority and paper shit. no one cares about experience of common sense Apr 22 22:44:01 s,of,or Apr 22 22:44:13 :P Apr 22 22:46:08 Pforce: you guys actually have an office and stuff, do you? Apr 22 22:46:48 yeah sure, rex is developed by three separate companies in Oulu Finland Apr 22 22:46:51 i hope that job will allow me some more extensive visits of the qt community. would pay you a visit ;) Apr 22 22:46:58 evocativi (where i work), playsign and ludocraft Apr 22 22:47:07 and we sure could learn a thing or two from you. Apr 22 22:47:39 yeah would be great Apr 22 22:47:40 i just hope people will actually listen to me @nokia. its hard enough for the people who have been there since early TT days Apr 22 22:47:47 some code then sauna and beer :) Apr 22 22:47:52 awesome Apr 22 22:48:47 hm Apr 22 22:49:04 naalis biggest performance bottleneck is now the rendering to qimage and passing that to ogre to paint Apr 22 22:49:09 is there an app that puts your now playing in your status msg? Apr 22 22:49:15 would hope to make that GL at some point Apr 22 22:49:26 Pforce: yeah, you're supposed to use my gl hack there :P Apr 22 22:49:39 maybe ill revisit that Apr 22 22:49:49 make it a #define for X11 Apr 22 22:49:50 its just if ogre will play nice Apr 22 22:50:00 it should. if not, make it Apr 22 22:50:10 i dont know anything about gl contextes but i guess they would need to share one Apr 22 22:50:29 yes Apr 22 22:50:31 as i was told would become the problems or something Apr 22 22:50:33 right Apr 22 22:50:48 and the game companys are quite persistent to keep DX as an option on the side Apr 22 22:51:01 no problem with _option_ Apr 22 22:51:05 vim is 6MB? :) Apr 22 22:51:25 hi Apr 22 22:51:28 anyone uses pys60? Apr 22 22:51:35 aep: well it is if we cant rely on all platformst that we can make the two work with ogl Apr 22 22:51:42 Pforce: i think we're abusing the channel here ;) Apr 22 22:51:47 maybe :D Apr 22 22:51:55 should go to sleep Apr 22 22:52:00 same Apr 22 22:52:02 meetings and such tomorrow, sigh Apr 22 22:52:17 such is life. see you around. Apr 22 22:52:23 sure :) Apr 22 22:52:34 we always meet on some channel from time to time! Apr 22 22:52:57 joker_89, a bit Apr 22 22:53:02 good luck with the job application and the viewer Apr 22 22:53:06 Pforce: i'm in #realextend all the time :P Apr 22 22:53:09 Pforce: thanks! Apr 22 22:53:09 why not try #symbian though Apr 22 22:53:28 if there is a symbian channel Apr 22 22:53:36 there is Apr 22 22:53:39 nothing happening there, should come to -dev ;) Apr 22 22:53:43 o/ -> Apr 22 22:53:51 Pforce: aha. night Apr 22 22:54:27 joker_89, #pys60 Apr 22 22:54:45 pys60 is stored on maemo garage, weird Apr 22 22:59:05 sup Apr 22 23:06:54 Is this the right place to ask about the n900? Apr 22 23:07:19 jeward, just ask Apr 22 23:07:40 Well, I've downloaded some files in the web browser, but I can't find them on disk? Apr 22 23:07:44 an n900 whats that? Apr 22 23:07:46 sounds odd Apr 22 23:07:53 Nokia N900. Apr 22 23:07:54 :P Apr 22 23:07:56 ;) Apr 22 23:08:02 (just kidding) Apr 22 23:08:31 good point Apr 22 23:08:34 never tried that Apr 22 23:08:56 I was going to try to get Opera mini running and downloaded some associated files to "Documents", that appears to be a file rather than a directory? Apr 22 23:09:17 testing ... Apr 22 23:09:49 jeward, opera mini isn't available afaik Apr 22 23:10:24 Yeah, you run it in a java engine. Apr 22 23:10:33 MicroEmulator being one of them. Apr 22 23:10:54 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37799 Apr 22 23:11:12 where did you save them using the browser? Apr 22 23:11:22 Location Documents Apr 22 23:11:36 yeah i just open file browser Apr 22 23:11:39 /home/user/MyDocs/.documents Apr 22 23:11:40 tap n900 Apr 22 23:11:41 Can't find them in the file browser or xterm though. Apr 22 23:11:45 open documents Apr 22 23:11:55 and see my download Apr 22 23:11:56 jeward, /home/user/MyDocs/.documents Apr 22 23:12:14 Checking. Apr 22 23:12:37 Aha! Apr 22 23:12:53 :) Apr 22 23:14:11 Is unzip something I can install from the applications manager? Apr 22 23:14:39 Maybe I need more repos? Apr 22 23:15:07 extras-devel Apr 22 23:15:15 WARNING APPLY Apr 22 23:15:30 ~extras-devel Apr 22 23:15:30 extra, extra, read all about it, extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel Apr 22 23:15:59 anyone kn ow a ecent text editor i can install on the n900 that works well forwared over ssh Apr 22 23:16:35 lol Check dependencies of dependencies. (Check complete tree) Apr 22 23:19:07 Apple rumoured to buy ARM? Apr 22 23:19:15 I'm one fore gedit or kate. gedit wouldnt install. leafpad has no menus in a forwarded xsession. Apr 22 23:19:33 crashanddie, i doubt it. why would they? Apr 22 23:19:49 they already own a fab Apr 22 23:20:00 tripzero: iPhone, iPad? Apr 22 23:20:02 "fab"? Apr 22 23:20:13 crashanddie, they already make their own chips for those Apr 22 23:20:18 and ARM doesn't make chips Apr 22 23:20:23 they just license out the tech Apr 22 23:20:35 yeah, they make the designs Apr 22 23:20:45 Hey, I'm just repeating a rumour dude Apr 22 23:21:01 i know. i'm just arguing pointlessly against it Apr 22 23:22:55 it would be a dumb buy till the knew wheter or not the new mobile atoms they have planned for cell phones are feasable. Apr 22 23:23:11 What's the easiest way to input a pipe symbol inxterm? Apr 22 23:23:34 jeward: blue arrow, control, pipe Apr 22 23:23:40 add pipe to the term bar Apr 22 23:23:59 Blue arrow control pipe? Apr 22 23:24:01 tripzero: Apple's chips are ARM Apr 22 23:24:16 luke-jr, yes, but Apple makes them Apr 22 23:24:17 Is it possible to make the alarm work until it is canceled? I believe it stops after 5 minutes Apr 22 23:24:22 not the ARM group Apr 22 23:24:26 or whatever they are called Apr 22 23:24:28 tripzero: but if Apple buys ARM, they don't need to licence it anymore Apr 22 23:24:41 and they can kill WinCE/Linux phones Apr 22 23:24:42 meh, apple has monies. Apr 22 23:24:44 jeward: press blue arrow on your keyboard, then Ctrl Apr 22 23:24:51 Right. Apr 22 23:24:59 jeward: a menu will pop-up, pipe is in the top right corner Apr 22 23:25:03 luke-jr, that comment right there would be a reason why they couldn't buy up ARM Apr 22 23:25:03 Oh! Apr 22 23:25:05 Thanks! Apr 22 23:25:15 it would run into heavy anti-trust issues Apr 22 23:25:15 Apple is sitting on roughly $40 billion in liquid assets Apr 22 23:25:20 @luke-jr but if the intel mobbile pros work well than they bought it for nothong Apr 22 23:25:20 (translation: cash) Apr 22 23:25:39 tripzero: Qualcomm buying AMD's GPU didn't have a problem Apr 22 23:25:54 yet now Freescale is paralyzed Apr 22 23:26:25 Qualcomm competes directly with Freescale and their purchase of the GPU IP has given them an unfair advantage in the SoC market Apr 22 23:26:41 same as Apple with ARM IMO Apr 22 23:26:48 FYI http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23826703-city-aflame-with-takeover-talk-of-arm-and-xstrata.do Apr 22 23:27:07 lol Apr 22 23:27:38 * MohammadAG added a | to Blue arrow + up Apr 22 23:27:47 seems better as a hardware key Apr 22 23:28:18 well, hrm Apr 22 23:28:37 i suppose Apple could optimize ARM cpu design to give them an edge Apr 22 23:28:44 Question in my mind is when is AMD gonna get off their ass and make a SoC to compete. Apr 22 23:29:08 @tripzero the chips in apple are optimized Apr 22 23:29:21 @tripzero same way the chip in the n900 is Apr 22 23:29:28 zappa, but Apple has no control over the ARM design Apr 22 23:29:33 ARM Holdings does Apr 22 23:30:10 @tripzero they take the basic design and say what they want. then the chip manufacture produces it as so Apr 22 23:30:22 sure, their software may be able to take advantage of specific ARM instructions in ARM chips, but if ARM doesn't have the instruction, Apple can't optimize against it Apr 22 23:31:00 idk, maybe i don't understand the differences between ARM variants Apr 22 23:31:01 Apple has ultimate control over the arm design Apr 22 23:31:17 @tripzero Apple says we want this.. they say how soon? Apr 22 23:31:29 SpeedEvil, can they add their own optimzed instructions to their design? Apr 22 23:31:39 If apple approach TI, and say they want an ARM variant that has a hardware mp3 codec - then TI can add it. Apr 22 23:31:45 As I understand it, yes Apr 22 23:31:57 @speedevil exactly Apr 22 23:32:04 that's a dsp outside of the cpu itself though isn't it? Apr 22 23:32:37 tripzero: you can also edit the core. Apr 22 23:33:01 so what's the point of buying ARM? Apr 22 23:33:09 save a buck or two? Apr 22 23:33:18 theyy make effecient designs Apr 22 23:33:33 meh, according you you, they already can Apr 22 23:33:34 gettung and edge, stiffling competition Apr 22 23:33:42 arm brought horsepower at low power consumpution Apr 22 23:34:00 Buying ARM means little immediately. Apr 22 23:34:02 if Apple can do whatever they want with ARM, why do they need ARM Holdings? Apr 22 23:34:18 maybe knowledge power? Apr 22 23:34:19 Price Apr 22 23:34:22 TI et al have bought arm licenses for their current chips - and that will extend out a couple of years in most cases Apr 22 23:34:22 they cant do what ever they want Apr 22 23:34:29 And also they will be defining who gets what Apr 22 23:34:38 they could make arm licenses very expensive Apr 22 23:34:41 Which means that Microsoft currently looking into ARM Servers? Piss off Apr 22 23:34:46 they can do a walmart on arm and sa i want X units to do Y functions Apr 22 23:35:11 when they put in an order for 10 million units they have a sa in what the hell it does Apr 22 23:35:23 crashanddie, off topic, did you notice the PS3 ToS changes? Apr 22 23:35:25 It's funny that this is announced just when Microsoft posts a job for an "ARM System Engineer" Apr 22 23:35:30 MohammadAG: I did Apr 22 23:35:34 Stealth updates (as I call them) are allowed Apr 22 23:35:36 arm doesnt do fab Apr 22 23:35:59 kynky: THE MOON COMES UP AT NIGHT. Apr 22 23:36:04 kynky: FLOWERS ARE PLANTS Apr 22 23:36:14 kynky: ELECTRICITY ISN'T MAGIC Apr 22 23:36:44 crashanddie IS HUMAN Apr 22 23:36:45 It is too magic. Apr 22 23:36:46 :P Apr 22 23:36:46 kynky: Oh I'm sorry, I thought we were playing "Let's say things everyone already knows". Apr 22 23:36:54 * SpeedEvil inflates crashanddie with magic smoke. Apr 22 23:37:04 * crashanddie inflates slowly Apr 22 23:37:04 lol Apr 22 23:37:04 aww, just when I started playing it too Apr 22 23:37:17 * crashanddie bursts Apr 22 23:37:19 so you gus see that android is running on the 3g iphone Apr 22 23:37:30 * crashanddie shoots around the room, venting magic smoke Apr 22 23:38:07 * crashanddie rubs against SpeedEvil's leg, like a dog with a postman Apr 22 23:38:42 * MohammadAG would rather not imagine that Apr 22 23:39:21 * SpeedEvil takes crashanddie to the vet. Apr 22 23:40:11 * MohammadAG drinks a bottle of beer Apr 22 23:40:11 nooooooooooooooo Apr 22 23:40:13 I promise I'll be good Apr 22 23:40:17 I'll walk myself Apr 22 23:40:34 flush Apr 22 23:40:37 do my business in the toilet Apr 22 23:40:39 pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase Apr 22 23:40:59 "business", wonder what that means Apr 22 23:41:24 number one and number two Apr 22 23:42:51 so any favorite methods of making a network share on the n900? Apr 22 23:43:29 electricity is too magic! Apr 22 23:46:03 zappa: mind qualifying that? Apr 22 23:48:07 crahsanddie: basically i wanna work on rub files on the n900 and edit them on y netbook. sshd did not work for me so i was thinking a basic smb share would. Apr 22 23:48:33 me Apr 22 23:50:31 zappa: wifi + sshd + mount ssh://whatever Apr 22 23:50:43 zappa: or usb networking + sshd + mount Apr 22 23:51:04 @crashanddie i did that but when i do it i have no files Apr 22 23:51:18 whadyamean you have no files? Apr 22 23:51:33 You fail, is all. Apr 22 23:52:03 that could be Apr 22 23:52:08 one sec Apr 22 23:53:49 Is it possible to make the speakers louder somehow? Apr 22 23:54:17 dima202: wrap tinfoil around your N900 Apr 22 23:54:23 add a bit of olive oil Apr 22 23:54:35 bake in oven at 180C for about 25 minutes Apr 22 23:54:44 Serve with fresh potato salad. Apr 22 23:54:54 @crashaddie actaully i jsut retried sshfs and the files are there this time... dunno why. but thanks for making me check again Apr 22 23:55:24 crashanddie: do you enjoy acting like a child? Apr 22 23:55:35 dima202, make optimal use of speakers by placing them in a direction that funnels the sound towards your ears Apr 22 23:56:05 stop loss out sound by using a cone Apr 22 23:56:16 2 strings 4 cups Apr 22 23:56:19 strap them to your head even Apr 22 23:56:24 2 girls 1 ... oh wait Apr 22 23:56:25 dima202: unless you boost the loundess of your music files, I doubt there's a way to increase speaker output Apr 22 23:56:50 then you just get distortion Apr 22 23:56:52 lcuk: I remember increasing speaker output on my powerbook a while back.. but i can't recall how Apr 22 23:57:07 alsa mixer from comman prompy Apr 22 23:57:18 alsa mixer is at 100% and wont go any higher Apr 22 23:57:46 plug speakers back into your powerbook then Apr 22 23:57:57 Use a monster cable Apr 22 23:58:08 heh, i sold that laptop a few years back Apr 22 23:58:19 Lumpio-: Results 1 - 10 of about 20,900 for 2 girls 1 ellipsis Apr 22 23:58:28 some sound cards to have a boost thingy, but ive not encountered one on n900 Apr 22 23:58:56 @dima202 if alsa mixer is at 100% for all the outpusts than i think u are screwed. but if there is a soultio u should be universal across all linux installations desktop and all. Apr 22 23:58:56 dima202: so back to my initial statement: Not possible. Apr 22 23:59:18 dima202: also, lighten up, what's so wrong about a joke? Apr 22 23:59:25 * MohammadAG needs testers http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/noor/0.8-4/ Apr 22 23:59:35 zappa: don't use @ in front of nicknames, it disrupts highlighting Apr 22 23:59:41 though I doubt anyone would test it, not a huge group of interested people Apr 22 23:59:45 my ubuntu audio slider near clock goes to max Apr 22 23:59:56 but if i open prefs by right clicking, i can go to 150% Apr 23 00:00:29 MohammadAG: is it in english or arabic or french? Apr 23 00:00:30 lcuk: yeah, it's the bathtub system Apr 23 00:00:39 ? Apr 23 00:00:40 its wrong Apr 23 00:00:42 yeah looks like there is no way. I have no problem listening to music at 100% or movies.. but alarm is so quiet... I tried different alarm clocks and they just wont bother my sleep at all Apr 23 00:00:43 zappa, english translation package available Apr 23 00:00:48 also in -testing Apr 23 00:01:03 dima202, use a sample recorded higher Apr 23 00:01:15 foghorn1.mp3 Apr 23 00:01:19 @mohammadAG I have a buddy who is Islamic and he could check it out tomoorow perhpas Apr 23 00:01:20 or something :D Apr 23 00:01:21 dima202: same problem here, I overslept quite a few times because I simply don't hear the N900 Apr 23 00:01:27 zappa, thanks :) Apr 23 00:01:33 dima202: I had to resort to installing some alam clock app on my mbp -- that one is loud enough. Apr 23 00:02:13 mac book pro? Apr 23 00:02:24 MohammadAG: I thought the dutch translation was pretty dodgy at times Apr 23 00:02:26 dima202: yup Apr 23 00:02:27 MohammadAG: suppose I could downlaoad the englosh and check it out just the same though. Apr 23 00:02:29 got ya Apr 23 00:02:50 crashanddie, you tried it? Apr 23 00:02:52 MohammadAG: but then again, I've never used a computer in dutch, so i don't know if those were the standard terms used in computing, but it sounded really awkward. Apr 23 00:03:09 MohammadAG: no, I just followed the thread on TMO, and looked at the .po file from the guy who offered the dutch translation Apr 23 00:03:18 crashanddie, so it wasn't really good? Apr 23 00:03:25 I didn't translate it obviously Apr 23 00:03:35 well, again, I've never used a dutch computer, so i don't know if the terms are standard Apr 23 00:03:46 neither do I Apr 23 00:03:49 but if they are, damn, dutch translators did a really silly job years ago -- however that's too late to change now Apr 23 00:03:50 I just added the .po file Apr 23 00:04:02 MohammadAG: it's better than nothing, and you can easily understand what it means Apr 23 00:04:05 do tell Apr 23 00:04:28 iPad makes a nice crossword puzzle machine Apr 23 00:04:29 MohammadAG: but yeah, it felt like they had used exact transliterations for most terms Apr 23 00:04:46 Downloading Noor now... Feel like I'm gonna get hassled more at the airport suddenly Apr 23 00:04:56 MohammadAG: might be worthwhile asking a native dutch to check it out... (poke X-Fade) Apr 23 00:04:57 crashanddie, so they sounded weird? Apr 23 00:05:18 well you poked him, no point in poking him again :) Apr 23 00:05:18 any ideas how to renice modest forever? Apr 23 00:05:51 MohammadAG: not the islamic terms, those were spot on, just the "Go to x" and such Apr 23 00:06:08 MohammadAG: he's sleeping now, you'll have to wait for a more decent time Apr 23 00:06:14 ah kk Apr 23 00:06:25 Arkenoi: IIRC it's started in /etc/X11/x11.post/* or something Apr 23 00:06:31 you could just start it under nice Apr 23 00:07:52 grep -r modest /etc/X11/Xsession.post/ -- nothing :-( Apr 23 00:08:13 Actually - no Apr 23 00:08:25 MohammadADG my firs recation would be to allow scrolling without the scrollbar. Apr 23 00:08:31 maybe it's started by the desktop Apr 23 00:10:07 MohammadADG: ack im in full screen and can't get out Apr 23 00:10:25 F Apr 23 00:10:35 zappa, I'm working on scrolling Apr 23 00:10:48 can't find enough pyGTK examples (except pygtkeditor) Apr 23 00:10:58 zappa, press F (it says that) Apr 23 00:12:03 MohammadAG: thanks. f worked, I dont think the prompt told me aboujt that though. Apr 23 00:12:25 zappa, enter full screen mode again Apr 23 00:12:28 there should be a promt Apr 23 00:12:28 dima202: yes, macbook pro Apr 23 00:12:31 prompt* Apr 23 00:12:38 MohammadAG: I think its a neat application and a handy one at that. Apr 23 00:12:57 handy indeed, needed it for school which is why I ported it Apr 23 00:13:24 MohammadAG: my bad it did say F to exit. Those yellow medsages go b so fast though. Apr 23 00:13:37 hildon's fault :P Apr 23 00:13:41 aye Apr 23 00:14:19 MohammadAG: I dunno if theres different parayers that are said 5 times a day but maybe sugest a prayer at a certain time? Apr 23 00:14:20 I can change it to the yellow wide one which shows in the center Apr 23 00:14:26 MohammadAG: you can define the duration, or if the user should tap it out Apr 23 00:14:42 zappa, there's already an app for it Apr 23 00:14:48 crashanddie, using dbus-send? Apr 23 00:14:54 though, banners should not be used for usability pointers Apr 23 00:15:29 I'm assuming that's a banner? Apr 23 00:15:49 MohammaDG: I gotta eat but I'll have my buddy check it out tomorrow. Keep up the good work. Apr 23 00:16:01 thanks :) Apr 23 00:16:32 MohammadAG: yes, that's a banner Apr 23 00:17:00 basically, usability pointers should be displayed as part of your application -- not through popups or anything Apr 23 00:17:16 crashanddie, proposed method is? Apr 23 00:17:26 MohammadAG: that would be like mplayer loading up a webpage telling you how to pause the video Apr 23 00:17:41 overlay is usually a good idea Apr 23 00:17:46 * MohammadAG says huh Apr 23 00:17:48 Or as part of the "start menu' Apr 23 00:18:03 Or make it intuitive xD Apr 23 00:18:23 for example up down move the page, left right do the same as page down, page up Apr 23 00:18:25 I swear that word didn't exist/wasn't used till the iPhone came out Apr 23 00:18:38 intuitive? Apr 23 00:18:48 ye Apr 23 00:18:58 maybe because you never cared about user experience ;) Apr 23 00:19:13 I never care about that :) Apr 23 00:19:16 but UX has been on the forefront of the mobile industry for quite some time Apr 23 00:19:24 I was going to uninstall hildon application manager Apr 23 00:19:33 but mp-fremantle-generic-pr needed it Apr 23 00:19:48 also, use the backspace key to get back to the main menu Apr 23 00:19:53 (simply because I don't use it, and it's slow) Apr 23 00:19:58 crashanddie, main menu? Apr 23 00:20:02 space is page down as well Apr 23 00:20:15 MohammadAG: I haven't looked at your app, but I would definitely implement a main menu Apr 23 00:20:23 crashanddie, left/right aren't page up down Apr 23 00:20:33 wait wait wait Apr 23 00:20:37 what are we talking about lol Apr 23 00:20:44 thought you were talking about my app Apr 23 00:20:48 I am Apr 23 00:20:50 up/down are up and down Apr 23 00:20:55 left/right aren't Apr 23 00:21:02 but I never used it, so I'm just giving general ideas about usability Apr 23 00:21:04 space is down Apr 23 00:21:25 well, implement it: left and right should be up/down, but a lot quicker than up/down Apr 23 00:21:30 well I'm still trying to figure out pygtkeditor's code (it's a pain for newbies lol) Apr 23 00:21:42 * MohammadAG digs through noor's code Apr 23 00:21:44 ask Khertan, he'll come online in roughly 6 hours Apr 23 00:21:55 or later, 8-9 hours from now Apr 23 00:21:59 wow, you know when users wake up/go to sleep? Apr 23 00:22:02 :P Apr 23 00:22:06 yeah Apr 23 00:22:19 now that's magic :P Apr 23 00:22:31 (less magical than the iPad though) Apr 23 00:22:33 I just know where they live ;) Apr 23 00:22:58 does it matter :) Apr 23 00:23:05 it's 3:22 AM here Apr 23 00:23:13 for example, dneary should be sleeping, but currently he's stuck in SF, so he might just pop n Apr 23 00:23:13 pop in Apr 23 00:23:27 crashanddie, You called? Apr 23 00:23:34 see, told you Apr 23 00:23:35 I'm here already Apr 23 00:23:37 lol Apr 23 00:23:45 SF? Apr 23 00:23:52 only sf I know is symbian-freak Apr 23 00:24:04 MohammadAG: think city Apr 23 00:24:13 san fransisco Apr 23 00:24:16 MohammadAG: largest asian community outside of asia Apr 23 00:24:17 yay! Apr 23 00:24:28 lol it's just uncommon Apr 23 00:24:35 mostly everyone's from europe Apr 23 00:24:43 again, uncommon for you Apr 23 00:24:58 Think Global (r) Apr 23 00:25:16 uncommon for the interwebs actually :) Apr 23 00:25:40 * MohammadAG gulps Apr 23 00:25:46 did I do something wrong? :P Apr 23 00:27:59 crashanddie, another thing that bugged me in the app was the sura chooser Apr 23 00:28:06 it has black bars surrounding it Apr 23 00:34:29 MohammadAG: as i said, I havent' seen your app as of yet Apr 23 00:34:48 crashanddie, do you know what the arrows are defined as? Apr 23 00:35:04 seems like left and right are defined in the source, but they don't work in the app Apr 23 00:35:33 gtk.keysyms.Down: _next_line, Apr 23 00:35:44 up is _prev_line Apr 23 00:35:59 meaning the up and down keys actually scroll by numbers (not one line at a time) Apr 23 01:11:09 hm. n900 does support an su8w right? Apr 23 01:11:16 or should i say bt hid? Apr 23 01:16:42 that or get a diff phone Apr 23 01:17:56 Macer, it does Apr 23 01:18:42 Macer, remove input from disabled modules in /etc/bluetooth/main.conf Apr 23 01:18:49 * Arkenoi thinks on fresnel zoom lens for n900, Terry Gilliam style Apr 23 01:18:56 (will break the sixaxis support thing) Apr 23 01:19:00 anyways I'm off Apr 23 01:19:03 gnite Apr 23 01:36:07 Arkenoi: lmao Apr 23 02:03:42 Looks like the weed state finally pays for its mistakes: "Burglars break into prison to rob absent inmates; It would make a good gag for a comedy if it weren't actually true: thieves have broken into a Dutch prison to steal the inmates' televisions." **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 23 02:59:56 2010