**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 04 03:00:01 2010 May 04 03:17:54 Hey,I wonder where I could find the option which I could say if the web pages can use my GPS? May 04 03:18:03 I am trying to get Google Maps work btw May 04 03:22:46 any ideas why... May 04 03:22:50 Nokia-N900-02-8:~# echo $PATH May 04 03:22:51 /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 May 04 03:23:37 still calls /usr/bin/apt-get, when I enter apt-get as cmd? May 04 03:24:01 Nokia-N900-02-8:~# which apt-get May 04 03:24:03 /usr/local/bin/apt-get May 04 03:24:54 odd May 04 03:25:08 but evidently /usb/local/bin/apt-get calls something different than apt-get does May 04 03:25:14 hash -r May 04 03:25:19 hmm May 04 03:25:45 thanks May 04 03:25:59 I hate busybox May 04 03:26:02 lols May 04 03:30:53 No one? May 04 03:31:29 well, just 9 lines. but works: http://paste.debian.net/71901/ apt-get_improved May 04 03:44:26 well, I have to admit at least this time it's been my fault, as every shell seems to know hash -r. It's just that 'which' is telling lies to me May 04 03:46:01 and even that's not correct according to the merwe specs May 04 03:46:33 anyway bash rehashes automatically May 04 03:51:15 I have decided to start excersising, is there anything out there which will enable me to hand my n900 on neck or strap it to a hand? May 04 03:51:25 hang* May 04 03:51:37 probably straping to a hand is better idea May 04 03:54:44 +bluetooth headphones for a bit more radiation exposure May 04 03:55:25 DocScrutinizer51: n900 doesn't use bash by default... May 04 03:55:40 orly May 04 03:55:55 so don't assume it acts like bash :) May 04 03:57:34 the first line in installed-apps.sh is '/usr/bin/apt-get install bash' though ;-) May 04 03:57:59 but you have to execute it, it's /bin/bash not /bin/sh May 04 03:58:26 yesyesyes May 04 03:58:55 I'm well aware of that May 04 03:59:15 DocScrutinizer51: docz! May 04 03:59:30 moinmoin rater May 04 03:59:35 Would class 2 sdhc be enough to play video? or better be safe and get class 4? May 04 03:59:41 raster even May 04 04:00:00 hmm May 04 04:00:35 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if there's anymore class2 out there May 04 04:00:43 tons on amazon May 04 04:00:56 16gig under $40 May 04 04:01:04 DocScrutinizer51: wassap? May 04 04:01:14 wtf is class stuff again May 04 04:01:17 i once knew May 04 04:01:33 2mb/s? May 04 04:01:35 kicking N900 usb hostmode in the arse May 04 04:01:37 but why they cant just say "read rate: X MB/s , write rate Y MB/s" May 04 04:01:39 i dont know May 04 04:02:14 nobodz knows May 04 04:02:32 grrr neeed to remap z and y now May 04 04:02:38 probably because 2mb/s looks so pathetic May 04 04:02:38 :) May 04 04:03:05 So I better buy class 4+? May 04 04:03:12 and not be a cheap bastard May 04 04:03:45 class4 for sure is good enough May 04 04:04:05 ooh class == m/s minimum xfer May 04 04:04:11 they dotn say if its read or wreite May 04 04:04:25 read prob/ May 04 04:04:26 my guess is write is slower so its going to be your minimum write rates May 04 04:04:26 cool May 04 04:04:41 in my experience i can pull read rates of 15m/s off any vaguely modern sd card i have floating about May 04 04:04:57 http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/speed_class/ May 04 04:05:49 hmm, my n900 internal memory is about 8 - 10 mb/s from what i've seen (write speed) May 04 04:06:08 video streams the n900 can decode won't be over 2mb/sec May 04 04:06:30 plus read is faster than write May 04 04:07:00 http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdxc/ May 04 04:07:02 damn May 04 04:07:03 mine too slow atm - page doesn't load May 04 04:07:05 i hadnt heard of that yet May 04 04:07:11 up to 2tb supported May 04 04:07:18 I see a class 10 16gig microsdhc for $100 but it's just too much May 04 04:07:20 yep May 04 04:07:24 * raster wonders who will be able to afford that sucker when it comes out May 04 04:07:32 Dima202: I have a class 2 16gb May 04 04:07:39 sdxc is funky May 04 04:07:50 funky chickens May 04 04:08:10 Dima202: the biggest problem is filling them, 16gb at 2mb/sec is pretty slow May 04 04:08:17 ok that page never loads May 04 04:09:08 I was going to use it for dual booting meego and storage (flac, avi, mkvs) as 2x it will be slooow :( May 04 04:09:37 Dima202: well it all depends what u are willing to live with May 04 04:09:45 saying "penough to play video" - yes May 04 04:09:46 class 2 is May 04 04:09:52 * luke-jr notes at least N8x0 probably can't go beyond Class 4 anyway May 04 04:10:08 u can play a nice 64kbit video stream no worries May 04 04:10:09 :) May 04 04:10:31 640k is enough for anyone May 04 04:10:33 uhuh May 04 04:10:35 how fast kis class4: May 04 04:10:40 ? May 04 04:10:54 4m/s "transfer rate minimum" May 04 04:10:59 DocScrutinizer51: lrn2google May 04 04:11:03 doesnt say if read and write rates differ (likely do) May 04 04:11:08 and its a minimukm guarantee May 04 04:11:17 nota "it actually mostly works much better than that" May 04 04:11:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital May 04 04:11:29 luke-jr: learn to read backscroll May 04 04:11:59 do class 2 = sm/s, 4 == 4/ms 6 == 6 m/s etc. May 04 04:12:00 NO U May 04 04:12:05 "minimum transfer rate" May 04 04:12:37 * swc|666 needs a class 45 microsd May 04 04:13:13 * |R wants a class 45 microSDXC 128GB May 04 04:13:47 * luke-jr steals it from |R May 04 04:14:20 * swc|666 would settle for a 512mb nand in his n900 May 04 04:15:16 * luke-jr mostly pretends his handhelds don't have NAND May 04 04:15:27 NAND is rubbish May 04 04:15:28 nand should die for all but bootloaders May 04 04:15:36 (ie bios) May 04 04:15:59 Where could I tell the browser that requesting GPS position from websites are allowed? May 04 04:16:30 I have made a decision i'll be getting a $20 8gb class 6 microsdhc :) seems best value atm May 04 04:16:34 KnightStalker: nowhere? May 04 04:16:40 o.O May 04 04:16:47 KnightStalker: I beleive there's a plugin that would help you there May 04 04:16:54 Dima202: rule of thumb generally is "3rd from the top" is best value May 04 04:16:58 How to install it =) May 04 04:17:02 generally May 04 04:17:24 KnightStalker: like any other browser plugin May 04 04:17:48 raster, took me about 20 minutes to figure it out :p May 04 04:17:50 well firefox should say "Missing plugin" but it doesn't :\ May 04 04:18:18 KnightStalker: next time there's an ad on a page should it popup "Missing ABP" ? May 04 04:18:45 there is no ad :\ May 04 04:19:01 too bad there's no popular removable NAND/NOR cards May 04 04:19:01 * asjWrk bangs his head on a concrete wall May 04 04:19:14 to avoid dealing with all this block emulation crap May 04 04:21:17 well May 04 04:21:27 KnightStalker: anyways, look in at App Manager, there are browser plugins in there May 04 04:21:30 no point in not doing block emulation with NAND, since you have to access it like that anyway May 04 04:21:36 /mode +m #maemo May 04 04:21:42 night May 04 04:21:50 oh right =) May 04 04:22:06 microlith, yeah but the block emulation pretends it's 512 byte blocks when it's more like 256kbyte May 04 04:22:13 ah, true May 04 04:22:17 but it would be great if I had the name of the plugin <3 May 04 04:22:21 and even with the move to 4k sectors it's still short May 04 04:22:27 yes May 04 04:22:59 microlith: you don't. May 04 04:23:11 rather, isn't the 256K block the eraseblock size, with read/write being smaller normally? May 04 04:23:20 * microlith hasn't worked with NAND much May 04 04:23:45 microlith, in practice sequential writes are fast and random access slow May 04 04:23:47 maybe I will more when micron finishes off buying us :D May 04 04:24:12 UBI > unknown SD emulation anyhow May 04 04:24:24 if you write 4K and go off reading something somewhere else, the card then reads in 256k, modifies 4k, erases a new block, writes 256k, all before serving your read.. May 04 04:25:00 yeah May 04 04:25:22 So that works out to roughly "never do random writes" May 04 04:25:38 Which makes all normal filesystems crap :) May 04 04:25:45 at least, not when you're stuck with a single chip May 04 04:26:18 thus the existence of thgnis like btrfs, nilfs2 May 04 04:26:19 it's not like multichannel helps with anything except sequential speeds anyway :) May 04 04:26:28 btrfs did not do very well in my test :) May 04 04:26:42 even on more recent SSDs? May 04 04:26:58 in theory it should be able to account for "the behavior of block emulation" as part of the fs structure May 04 04:27:03 at least thats its intent May 04 04:27:12 maybe not as good as it could be May 04 04:28:05 When did the conversation change to SSDs? SSDs have beefy ARM processors and >=64M of RAM to run a LogFS-like filesystem on the nand chips :) May 04 04:28:14 ah May 04 04:28:29 Except maybe the jmicron based ones, they just suck mostly May 04 04:29:43 btrfs was intende for "thumbdrives" last i checked May 04 04:29:56 and linfs2 last i checked was log-fs based May 04 04:30:09 as that allowed also for fs versioning and snapshots, rollback etc. May 04 04:30:19 in my test consisting of timed copy of squid's cachespool to SD card, nilfs2 was fastest, and ext4 was only twice as slow. btrfs 3 times as slow as nilfs2. May 04 04:30:25 so it at least fits in with sd-card logic May 04 04:30:42 aaah u tried nilfs2 May 04 04:30:51 nilfs2 has been on my list of fs's to watch May 04 04:30:55 never gotten to playing with it tho May 04 04:31:02 in concept it seems about right May 04 04:31:10 and the idea of being able to version the fs sounds good to me May 04 04:31:21 if i was making a complet eproduction os + product May 04 04:31:25 nilfs2: 16 minutes, ext4: 29 minutes, btrfs: 46 minutes, ext2: 110 minutes May 04 04:31:30 i'd have a minimal rescue os and boot loader in nand May 04 04:31:57 Same chunk of data being copied to same thumbdrive May 04 04:31:59 (minimal rescue os can connect to a network in one of many ways and download a fresh install onto mmc/sd if all poo hits the fan) May 04 04:32:13 and the entire rest of the os on mmc (be it emmc or removable) May 04 04:32:24 and nilfs2 would be high on my list of choices May 04 04:32:38 as - for doing thigns like upgrades, you can literally tag your fs before a package upgrade May 04 04:32:41 nilfs2 has other less desireable behaviour though, like the garbage collector constantly writing tons of data :) May 04 04:32:46 and ifr poo happens - roll back to the prior version May 04 04:32:53 the rescue fs shoudl also be able to do this too May 04 04:33:06 and always maintain up to N snaps in the past just in case May 04 04:33:30 hmm May 04 04:33:36 well i guess nilfs2 needs tuning May 04 04:33:37 :) May 04 04:34:15 Well, it has only written 642 gigabytes onto my 8 gigabyte thumbdrive since March 10th, when I moved the 3 gigabyte squid cachespool onto it, which sees maybe 50 megabytes max of real writes per day ;) May 04 04:34:50 i wonder why May 04 04:35:07 probably the "eraseblock size" thjing May 04 04:35:11 ie write 2 bytes to the log May 04 04:35:17 end up having to write 256k May 04 04:35:19 No it's unaware of eraseblocks May 04 04:35:22 and repeat way too often May 04 04:35:40 then why so much? May 04 04:35:45 beats me :) May 04 04:35:50 hehehe May 04 04:36:07 The author basically agrees that it's not "optimized" for use on storage that has wear&tear constraints :) May 04 04:36:23 well lets see May 04 04:36:30 u likely have 100k write cycles May 04 04:36:32 if not more May 04 04:36:49 lets say thats 1 month May 04 04:36:54 (roughly) May 04 04:37:05 u have 1250 months of writing available for your thumbdrive May 04 04:37:13 you just used up 1 May 04 04:37:26 so still over 100years left :) May 04 04:37:46 Yeah so given that this thing has a max write speed of about 6 megabytes per second, it'd still take ages to wear it out May 04 04:37:55 I don't see why people worry about wear ;) May 04 04:38:00 (for now i dumbly assume the log rolls thru the device and so will spread itself out :)) May 04 04:38:09 same May 04 04:38:18 when u had lkike 1k or 10k cycles May 04 04:38:20 it mattered May 04 04:38:26 these days 100k+ is the norm May 04 04:38:40 an d given the massive space to spread the writes out over now... it's getting moot May 04 04:38:43 I'm hoping LogFS will be ready soon :) May 04 04:38:57 lets see what happens May 04 04:49:48 * RST38h yawns at the world May 04 04:50:41 (I don't see why people worry about wear) hehehe - tell that to our OC-antimater guy May 04 04:51:16 * DocScrutinizer yawns on his own May 04 04:51:25 oc-antimater? May 04 04:51:29 * Dima202 farts May 04 04:51:34 * raster burrps May 04 04:52:37 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-04-28.log.html#t2010-04-28T04:28:05 May 04 04:53:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51728 is hilarious May 04 04:54:11 Anyone willing to guess posters' distribution by the country of origin? =) May 04 04:56:40 Interesting, can I make a recording play through the phone? I made a rec. of a conversation I wanted to play to another caller May 04 04:57:52 well, if recaller can record a call, then I'd guess the inverse is possible as well May 04 04:59:24 I'm guessing I would ahve to write the code myself May 04 04:59:32 If I want the option May 04 04:59:53 there would be a problem May 04 05:00:00 hmm probably May 04 05:00:07 all pa clients get priorities May 04 05:00:13 the phone gets the higher priority May 04 05:00:28 whoever else will try playing audio while the phone is running, will hang May 04 05:00:53 and you won't be able to quit your app either, not until phone app is done using pa May 04 05:01:09 (the latter behaviour is a bug, there is a tracker for it) May 04 05:01:22 freggles May 04 05:02:00 well mplayer plays the file but no sound May 04 05:02:14 correct May 04 05:02:38 * DocScrutinizer51 once more appreciates the strictlz analog design of GTA02 gsm audiopath May 04 05:04:26 ah and before I forget May 04 05:04:39 ~nuke pulseaudio May 04 05:04:40 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at pulseaudio ... B☢☢M! May 04 05:04:53 http://gizmodo.com/5530298/swineattack-an-iphone-game-for-pig+hating-bacon-lovers <=== pass this url to lcuk =) May 04 05:05:35 * RST38h just yesterday got an email from some guy who complained about audio not playing in VGBA on desktop Ubuntu May 04 05:05:52 Apparently, no /dev/dsp*. Poor sucker =) May 04 05:06:21 RST38h: how's call-mute implemented? May 04 05:07:57 would the pa clients be stopped so my app could take over? May 04 05:08:38 Doc: I doubt it May 04 05:08:48 But you can try May 04 05:09:33 not right now May 04 05:09:47 but basically yes May 04 05:09:55 know how to do that May 04 05:10:06 either use an sdl game, or any of my emulators May 04 05:10:23 call yourself, while the game is running, see what happens to the game audio May 04 05:10:49 actually, my stuff will not do for this test: I shut down sound and pause on the focus-out events May 04 05:10:56 Did anyone see that earthquake? May 04 05:11:01 I think it just made a split May 04 05:11:18 is there anz decent doc about the general audio-config/concept/howto? May 04 05:11:55 huh? May 04 05:12:03 earthquake?? May 04 05:13:08 thys ys ypsylyn!!! grrr and zis iz zet May 04 05:13:23 ~trout DocScrutinizer May 04 05:13:25 * infobot slaps DocScrutinizer around a bit with a large trout! May 04 05:13:36 DocScrutinizer51: seems like your keyboard is shaking a lot May 04 05:14:53 not used to my new qwerty May 04 05:15:17 * DocScrutinizer51 is a wertzu Fritz May 04 05:17:59 I see my sticky tape helped the situation May 04 05:19:12 I'm really tempted to try and nuke the whole cpu-eating PA shit, and set up a sane ALSA only audio config May 04 05:21:06 ALSA does not work properly May 04 05:21:18 aah May 04 05:21:20 There is just enough ALSA to make PA work May 04 05:21:26 Ask pupnik for details May 04 05:21:37 seems to me PA doesn't work properly May 04 05:21:45 well it works, more or less May 04 05:22:05 it's a pig on resources and has a few nasty bugs but it works May 04 05:22:40 I have never seen PA not using unreasonable amount of cpu after a while. to me it seems PA in a embedded/mobile setting is a poor decision, unless massive profiling/improvement effort is put to it... May 04 05:22:50 sow how for god's sake could alsa perform anz worse? May 04 05:23:06 ALSA just does not work on Fremantle May 04 05:23:15 Try using it and you will know May 04 05:23:25 DocScrutinizer51: my guess is that having mixed streams are just painfull in ALSA May 04 05:23:32 ok, so that's a fremantle problem May 04 05:23:56 no thez're simple, easy, and just work May 04 05:23:58 And yes, I would really love if the Tentacled One just ate up all the well-wishing motherfuckers inventing their own audio frameworks May 04 05:24:02 the comment i have for that is: mixed streams tend to stutter on the n900 anyway, so PA is bringing no benefit May 04 05:25:08 Starting with the PA guy, then the ALSA people, the ARTS guy, Raster (sorry, Raster), all the way down, until the only thing remaining is the /dev/dsp | /dev/audio | /dev/pcm API May 04 05:25:57 RST38h: esd wasnt an audio framework May 04 05:26:03 it was an access layer May 04 05:26:12 raster: As far as I am concerned, it is the same shit =( May 04 05:26:12 /dev/dsp simply didnt work properly May 04 05:26:13 I think I should go deaf,... that would be better for me. no need for the n900 to be a phone at all :) hmmm I guess I would just need it to have TTY interface... oh wait it does not :( May 04 05:26:16 /dev/dsp simply didnt work properly May 04 05:26:22 PA is based on a concept of freewheeling clocks that eat cpu like mad even when there's no more audio at all. ALSA is based on a clocked master slave chain May 04 05:26:26 raster: But I have to give you a credit here: at least ESD worked May 04 05:26:37 u had no mixing unless the hw directly did it AND driver supported multiple dsp opens May 04 05:26:42 that was at that time for 1 card only May 04 05:26:49 and no other audio daemons existed other than nas May 04 05:26:50 raster: correct, and that is how dsp works May 04 05:26:57 and nas had zero adoption May 04 05:27:01 yup May 04 05:27:14 so useless if u want to play your music and get "beep - you have new mail" May 04 05:27:31 raster: so, the logical solution would be to somehow allow multiple dsp opens in the kernel and implement mixing May 04 05:27:35 esd should have of course gotten more development May 04 05:27:51 like handling the case where hw did mixing and simply direct streams direct to /dev/dsp with no software mixing May 04 05:27:59 probably a better quality audiomixer May 04 05:28:02 raster: instead, people all went in different directions and implemented their own "frameworks" =( May 04 05:28:05 and some way to actually know real latency May 04 05:28:15 raster: you are describing ALSA May 04 05:28:21 yes May 04 05:28:24 raster: And ALSA is a freaking mess. May 04 05:28:28 alsa cam along much later May 04 05:28:38 i started esd in mid 97 May 04 05:28:58 ARTS has been there already May 04 05:29:04 i was pissed off that i couldnt play my music and get other audio May 04 05:30:44 i didnt hear of arts till much later May 04 05:30:51 raster: you rasterman from Enlightment fame ? :O May 04 05:30:57 fsckng arts never worked for me May 04 05:31:23 Doc: None of these frameworks ever worked for me, so no wonder May 04 05:31:35 1998 actually May 04 05:31:49 Doc: Raster's ESD kinda worked on N8x0, although it was missing documentation May 04 05:31:52 thats what the arts page seems to say - june 1998 May 04 05:31:58 http://www.arts-project.org/gen/newsarchive/news_1998.html May 04 05:32:06 and since all the herd of idiot sheeps went PA on all the distros, it broke mz desktop audio completely May 04 05:32:12 ah the site is still around??? May 04 05:32:13 RST38h: esd always worked for me May 04 05:32:14 :) May 04 05:32:24 raster: Yes, I have guessed that =) May 04 05:32:30 esd was simple tho May 04 05:32:45 it was a dead-simple socket that could with some ldpreload magic pretend to be a basic /dev/dsp May 04 05:32:55 all esd did was mix and play mixed output May 04 05:33:05 offer mixed output as another stream u can get via a socket May 04 05:33:19 it shoudl have always worked as long as /dev/dsp worked May 04 05:33:29 if app was written to use esd - no reason it shouldnt work May 04 05:33:51 good night May 04 05:33:55 but it wasnt very expansive in features May 04 05:34:00 njsf_: maybe May 04 05:34:00 :) May 04 05:34:10 anyway May 04 05:34:13 "However, it turned out that some people don't want a sound server at all" -- ARTS author May 04 05:34:23 esd pre-dated all known "audio frameworks" on linux May 04 05:34:45 you can blame everyone else for simply wanting to re-invent the wheel as opposed to adding whatever it is they needed to esd May 04 05:34:45 :) May 04 05:34:48 raster: Except for OSS :) May 04 05:34:54 oss is a driver May 04 05:34:59 raster: Ok, accepted May 04 05:35:13 * RST38h blames PA guy for not reusing ESD May 04 05:35:18 it has no logic beyond at the most basic level exposing some sound card controls May 04 05:35:21 alsa is much better May 04 05:35:24 alsa also is a driver May 04 05:35:29 for the record esd is simple enough to be useful and sane May 04 05:35:38 raster: Except that ALSA never really works in its entirety May 04 05:35:41 I always used it when possible May 04 05:35:44 DocScrutinizer51: alsa includes things like dmix - u are exiting driver realms there May 04 05:35:54 yes May 04 05:35:58 raster: The API is so freaking large and so specific to particular PC audio hardware... May 04 05:36:03 I prefer to do esdsp on old OSS needing apps May 04 05:36:09 what esd needed is simply adding more features for the things it didnt do May 04 05:36:10 and dmix just works May 04 05:36:20 like mixer controls - esd never prtended to worry about the audio mixer May 04 05:36:26 as i said May 04 05:36:29 latency querie May 04 05:36:32 sbetter soft-mix code May 04 05:36:55 Let us petition Nokia to switch back to ESD =) May 04 05:37:06 njsf_: i designed esd to be the way it was for easy of adoption for oss apps May 04 05:37:12 as thats all that existed at the time May 04 05:37:24 mornin raster et al May 04 05:37:37 the common oss /dev/dsp use case was open /dev/dsp - do some ioctls to set samplerate/format - then just write data until done May 04 05:37:40 so esd worked that way May 04 05:37:43 Doc: Here is pupnik, he should know all about ALSA on Maemo5 May 04 05:37:49 ehlo pupnik May 04 05:37:52 (excetp the ioctls were steram header inf before streaming your audio) May 04 05:37:56 pupnik: hey hey :) May 04 05:38:05 anyway May 04 05:38:09 esd is old by now May 04 05:38:18 raster, hm, does esd also predate nas? May 04 05:38:24 and as such - alsa does everything i wanted for esd to do May 04 05:38:27 so its kind of moot May 04 05:38:38 or mute :) May 04 05:38:42 flux: no. nas pre-dates esd. but nas came with the issue that it was hard to port to May 04 05:38:50 i looked at it May 04 05:39:05 and went "bah - no one is going ot use that api considering their current oss code" May 04 05:39:11 nas is overkill for all I know May 04 05:39:19 nas also had no foothold in the linux world May 04 05:39:27 it didnt ship with slackware or redhat at the time May 04 05:39:56 for a while i was pondering if audio should maybe become an extension to x May 04 05:39:59 NAS was always clunky. only useful thingy was to make other students NCD X-terms play weird sounds as prank (since they started unprotected) :D May 04 05:40:01 since your diusplay went via x May 04 05:40:08 why now sound too? it makes sense May 04 05:40:09 this is ofcourse circa 93 :) May 04 05:40:19 yeah May 04 05:40:33 Hmmm...Eldar continues to advertise Samsung any way he can May 04 05:40:38 nnas was over-engineered at least for the simple thign i wanted May 04 05:40:58 "i want to play my mp3.. and hear my other audio sounds if i want to - regardless what /dev/dsp wants to do" May 04 05:41:21 Not sure what he meant by showing a mediocre macro photo made with a Samsung and claiming that "the megapixel race is over" though May 04 05:41:59 i prefer non-eldar topics in the morning May 04 05:42:02 raster: besides the _network_ bindings which kinda make the pranks possible, first thing to do was always to wrap it in tcpwrappers and deny anything but 127.0.0,1 :D May 04 05:42:11 and PA was designed as a low latency framework for hard realtime apps aiui May 04 05:42:31 latencies <50ms May 04 05:42:41 hehehe May 04 05:42:58 yeah May 04 05:43:01 which nobody cares even for phonecalls and shit like that May 04 05:43:07 but man that was long ago May 04 05:43:47 but that's basically why PA sucks May 04 05:44:05 docscrutinizer51, nobody cares about it even for games? May 04 05:44:11 sucks CPU, sucks reliability... May 04 05:44:25 pupnik: ah come one, we all like a little eldar in our life May 04 05:44:27 pa's big issue is partly its floatingpoint mixer May 04 05:44:28 50ms??? nah May 04 05:44:33 in any case, I found that the function to estimate current audio latency is great May 04 05:44:33 tthat doesnt help in the slightest May 04 05:44:45 so much time to make up every way you turn... time we have wasted on the way... May 04 05:45:08 one reason u dont see pa and the likes used for audio is if u look at the audio infra for games and the likes May 04 05:45:11 they use ring buffers May 04 05:45:21 and rely on dma to suck out audio from the buffer in a loop May 04 05:45:30 correct May 04 05:45:32 as opposed to writing it as u go May 04 05:45:37 and there is pa_simple for that May 04 05:45:52 so any game writer will go to the audio api that provides that kind of feature with the least hassle May 04 05:45:58 (and latency etc.) May 04 05:46:10 So, PA will stay for another year or two, then get replaced with another "better" audio framework May 04 05:46:19 So cicrcle of suffering never breaks May 04 05:46:28 pa_simple is quite nice aswell, although I didn't get low latency out of it (but I didn't even try) May 04 05:46:46 however the full api doesn't seem to be quite documented, or didn't I just look at the right places? May 04 05:47:06 none of these audio apis are documented May 04 05:47:12 authors are too busy extending them May 04 05:47:15 hahahaha May 04 05:47:17 * DocScrutinizer51 sighs in dispair and waves... Night May 04 05:47:19 not esd May 04 05:47:24 cu DocScrutinizer51 May 04 05:47:25 do not believe me? check the same alsa May 04 05:47:29 that hasnt been extended in more than a decade :) May 04 05:47:40 raster: ok, esd is just not documented, that is all =) May 04 05:48:38 pa_simple looks like my kinda girl! May 04 05:48:53 pupnik: same problems though May 04 05:49:12 pupnik: high cpu usage, latency, and it locks up due to that priority bug May 04 05:49:40 esd has docs May 04 05:49:43 esd.h is commented May 04 05:49:48 raster: right. =) May 04 05:50:17 Oh cannot ever forget the NFS 2 sources comments May 04 05:50:48 RST38h: everything u need to use it is there May 04 05:51:03 at one point in the xdr file they had all the structure documentation (as in little over the structure member names and some obvious linkages) May 04 05:51:08 followed by: May 04 05:51:26 From here on you're on your own. Good luck. There be dragons May 04 05:51:40 :) May 04 05:51:52 that be dragons is quite a popular phrase May 04 05:51:55 :err May 04 05:51:56 The course assignment was encryption at the XDR layer so NFS would be encrypted May 04 05:51:57 har be dragons May 04 05:51:58 :) May 04 05:52:00 thar May 04 05:52:02 bah May 04 05:52:22 naturally I was pissed at the helpfullness of the comments :D May 04 05:53:23 raster: ...and after a while I even figured out how ot use it! May 04 05:53:29 :) May 04 05:53:54 raster: Would much rather prefer to fopen("/dev/dsp0","wb") and use standard ioctls there though May 04 05:54:04 raster: "/dev/esd0" would do too =) May 04 05:54:22 well esddsp did that job for u May 04 05:54:35 if u used /dev/dsp and ioctl's... it'd just intercept and translate May 04 05:55:04 not to mention it provided a nice example of how to port from raw /dev/dsp to esd calls May 04 05:55:17 (that would even fall back to /dev/dsp for u if there was no esd around etc.) May 04 05:55:25 tho i havent used esd myself in years May 04 05:55:31 as alpha has handled dmix for me May 04 05:55:34 err alsa May 04 05:55:47 so my goal for esd is there May 04 05:56:08 it'd have been nice to have some kind of loopback kernel driver/module May 04 05:56:18 esddsp gets me sound on a couple of n810 apps. yay. May 04 05:56:54 audio and video are both a mess on linux May 04 05:57:09 audio because it just has no good management structure May 04 05:57:14 sure - alsa mixes and allows access May 04 05:57:19 but come on.. that mixer is just wrong May 04 05:57:35 pa offers structure May 04 05:57:42 ie basically an audio manager May 04 05:57:50 but it kicks in some nice overhead May 04 05:57:59 that can be fixed - someone just needs to do it May 04 05:58:16 not sure why phonon exists.. but thats how it goes May 04 05:58:31 gst is orthogonal May 04 05:58:38 as its a layer on to to do encoding/decoding May 04 05:58:42 so thats anothe rmatterentirely May 04 05:59:35 looking over PA on maemo5 was educational for me. May 04 05:59:57 another fun thing to do is look at what the alsa driver exposes with alsamixer (pasuspender) May 04 06:00:14 so many mysterious fun controls! May 04 06:00:26 thats part of the problem May 04 06:00:29 too many controls May 04 06:00:54 sometime3s i event shake my head at there being both pcm and master volume May 04 06:01:09 i guess thanks to cd-roms and their audio analogue loopback legacy May 04 06:01:11 hooray May 04 06:01:14 hehehehehe May 04 06:02:25 no, you have analog loopback from alll the input channels May 04 06:02:55 'monitor' May 04 06:03:09 there wouldnt have been a need if it were not for cd roms May 04 06:05:02 if you want to do a dubover on an existing track then theres need for sure to add input monitor to the output with 0 latency May 04 06:05:40 what means NO pcm May 04 06:05:51 but analog loopback May 04 06:05:52 good point i think :) May 04 06:06:03 from input to output May 04 06:06:13 bah May 04 06:06:16 who needs that? May 04 06:06:32 other than for very special case "professional" use May 04 06:06:34 who needs audio? May 04 06:06:59 99% of use is either - play some audio from some source (digital ie wav, mp3, - comes out as pcm) May 04 06:07:13 or record some audio from an external source (and get pcm from card) May 04 06:07:18 and do both at the same time May 04 06:07:44 hmhm, there's no way to access changelog.Debian.gz after installation? May 04 06:32:41 oops May 04 06:47:15 On http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_examples/ svn checkout https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/branches/fremantle-sdk-testing/maemo-examples should be changed to https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/branches/fremantle-sdk-testing/maemo-examples/ ... apparently May 04 06:54:01 beta ovisuit is windows only? damn May 04 06:54:17 beta one May 04 06:54:34 Does that work with the N900? May 04 06:55:05 doubtful May 04 06:55:43 Oh... ;/ May 04 07:02:34 TigerTael, apparently they are looking for beta testers for ovi suite, particularly people with N900 May 04 07:02:53 TigerTael, so at least the goal is to get it working on N900 May 04 07:06:17 I'm just waiting for google maps for my n900 May 04 07:06:24 ovi maps blows May 04 07:06:43 well its not completely worthless May 04 07:10:51 mece: who's looking for beta testers? And where do I sign up? :D May 04 07:11:27 alterego, ovi suite 2.2 beta. May 04 07:12:08 mece: supposed N900 support? May 04 07:12:12 Ah, yeah. I see it. May 04 07:12:37 tybollt, that's the point of getting N900 users as beta testers I suppose, yeah. May 04 07:13:46 mece: googlers says there's a thread on tmo - clicking the link leads to a 404 May 04 07:14:24 is this one of those SUPAH S3KR|T betas? May 04 07:18:04 TigerTael timeless_mbp it's in the list - but in known issues is written all the problems - that are "not supoorted" most of them May 04 07:19:22 tybollt, yeah the testers are supposed to keep their lips tightly closed May 04 07:19:58 : | May 04 07:20:35 Tybollt: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51800 May 04 07:21:17 heyyyyy \ May 04 07:21:20 tybollt, I believe some threads have been merged, hence the 404 May 04 07:22:05 ZogG: ooh, url for known issues? May 04 07:22:49 it's there - can't share it if you are not beta tester you wouldn't be able to see it anyway May 04 07:22:51 gotta go May 04 07:22:53 bye May 04 07:25:08 jajaja May 04 07:36:46 yo from Europe May 04 07:37:03 yo from europe also! May 04 07:37:10 :D May 04 07:37:35 yo from South Africa May 04 07:39:16 crashanddie, are you not normally yo:ing from Europe? May 04 07:39:25 nope May 04 07:39:30 was in Australia for the past 6 months May 04 07:39:55 TigerTael, Funky, I was just wondering if there are many maemites in africa. Apparently at least one :D May 04 07:40:10 crashanddie, ah yesh. Now I recall. May 04 07:40:13 TigerTael: howzit bru? May 04 07:41:27 TigerTael: verstaan jy afrikaans of nie? May 04 07:42:01 crashanddie: you got to fly back all the way then? News said Ireland is gearing up to shut down their flying again and others may follow. May 04 07:42:22 tybollt: yeah, flew to singapore then london, and london to france, no problems with flying May 04 07:43:39 crashanddie, yah. May 04 07:44:00 crashanddie: as someone who had to travel athens - stockholm in a bus due to that silly ash-thing some week ago I can tell you - LUCKY BASTARD ;) May 04 07:44:17 Morning, all May 04 07:44:43 tybollt: well, I spent 35 hours in planes, lucky is probably not the right word, but yeah, traveling from Oz to Europe on a coach wouldn't have been good either :P May 04 07:45:11 tybollt: the fuck were you doing in athens anyhoo? Starting a revolution? May 04 07:45:15 yo Jaffa May 04 07:45:21 ;) May 04 07:45:24 Why there are there uncompressed copies of sounds from /usr/share/sounds in ~/.local/share/sounds ? May 04 07:45:29 Is that some kind of cache? May 04 07:46:17 crashanddie: no I was in africa actually - egypt - tanning my pink skin. athens was as far into europe as anyone dared fly May 04 07:46:30 ouch May 04 07:46:54 but yeah - greece right now - seems a bit of a clusterfuck :S May 04 07:47:49 so did I miss something with regards to PR1.2? May 04 07:47:52 it was leaked? May 04 07:48:01 crashanddie, leaked yes... May 04 07:48:13 It was totally awesome, peoples phones started going mental... May 04 07:48:16 but not final 1.2 May 04 07:48:18 a pre-release May 04 07:48:25 lol at the rooms title ;) May 04 07:48:29 nornin alls May 04 07:48:31 man, what has maemo.org become, apple.com? May 04 07:48:40 Who the fuck cares about a leaked version? May 04 07:48:41 crashanddie: eh? May 04 07:49:14 oh, you mean macrumors.com? May 04 07:49:14 any good? May 04 07:49:14 timeless_mbp: yeah, pretty much May 04 07:49:14 timeless_mbp: yeah, sorry, tmo = fmc May 04 07:49:14 rumors are bad May 04 07:49:14 crashanddie: yes, yes apparently it was and it was a big ass bruhaha over on TMO during the weekend. Even the "cease and desist" like posts were issued :) May 04 07:49:27 tybollt: yeah, saw reggie's post May 04 07:49:43 crashanddie, you should know, open source cares more about copyright than anyone May 04 07:49:50 lcuk: :D May 04 07:49:55 timeless_mbp: Joe Average thrive on rumours... May 04 07:49:55 I know...right... May 04 07:49:57 if anybody is interested in flashing his phone with leakyware May 04 07:49:58 I was just about to say May 04 07:50:08 i'm happy to break the law and provide him with that firmware May 04 07:50:10 jacekowski: same rules applies here May 04 07:50:22 jacekowski: so say one more thing and get uberslapped :P May 04 07:50:25 * noobmonk3y grins May 04 07:50:33 to be honest do you trust it?? May 04 07:50:36 heya noobmonk3y \o May 04 07:50:42 morning lcuk :D :D May 04 07:50:50 I mean I ran hacked firmware on my motorola v3 for years May 04 07:50:53 would you like a nice brick with that? May 04 07:50:55 * noobmonk3y is sick in bed today :( - oh well, more coding to do ;) May 04 07:51:30 I'm actually tempted to spend today building a fake image that will only show a jack-in-the-box going "AHAHA" (the horrible laughter from Jurassic Park) May 04 07:51:30 narayan44, hacked firmware is different from Alpha firmware. May 04 07:51:48 well, stating that filename of that firmware is [censored] and md5sum is [censored] isn't breaking a law May 04 07:51:54 crashanddie, that would make a good app :) May 04 07:52:05 supply your own picture and sound and let people make their own May 04 07:52:15 lcuk: my conversation searcher is going along quite nicely May 04 07:52:26 neural upgrade? May 04 07:52:47 still I'm not adventerous enough to run alpha firmware on my cellphone I use everyday May 04 07:52:47 in all seriousness, good May 04 07:53:14 lcuk: now have options to search specific dates, specific senders, phone number ranges, specific keywords, and also isn't restricted to sms anymore, I support all conversation types now (and obviously, you can filter which type you want to search) May 04 07:53:16 also, see this lovely piece of open source wizardry for our maemo http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=641035#post641035 May 04 07:53:24 portrait sms May 04 07:53:28 and it is mighty fast May 04 07:53:48 make sure you include mms in that when you are done May 04 07:53:52 crashanddie: you're stealing my idea :P I was gonna replace the boot up screen with a rick roll and call it PR1.3 :P May 04 07:53:53 speak with frals May 04 07:53:57 will do May 04 07:54:08 i dunno where he stores them May 04 07:54:10 * noobmonk3y throws a trout at frals May 04 07:54:14 narayan44: n900 isn't a phone May 04 07:54:32 crashanddie: I was going to write an app that allows you to generate your own maemo fiasco images and replace the boot screen with any video of your choosing. Thought it would stop people trusting any old source of images ;) May 04 07:54:38 jacekowski, my n900 is my mobile phone, whatcha on about willis May 04 07:54:50 its my phone too May 04 07:54:53 noobmonk3y: it's a tablet with phone functionality May 04 07:54:56 I know its a tablet with a GSm radio thrown in as an after thought May 04 07:55:00 but I use it as a phone May 04 07:55:03 no its a phone with awesomeness built in May 04 07:55:05 jacekowski, it is my mobile phone....... dont care what you call it ;) May 04 07:55:06 lcuk: application starts up in less than a second, and a search takes .4 seconds on average. SQLite is seriously fast, excellent. May 04 07:55:18 My N900 IS MY PHONE. May 04 07:55:22 lol May 04 07:55:23 yeah crashanddie i know sqlite can handle these small databases wlel May 04 07:55:23 So don't tell me my phone isn't a phone. May 04 07:55:25 i love this debate :P May 04 07:55:30 Bloody idiots. ;p May 04 07:55:33 crashanddie: sqlite is slow if you compare it to big database May 04 07:55:41 no jacekowski May 04 07:55:47 a big database usually has overheads May 04 07:55:51 and copying data etc May 04 07:55:59 small sqlite database should be blinding May 04 07:56:06 * noobmonk3y hasnt tried using the sqlite yet :| May 04 07:56:12 sqlite has overheads on lot of things May 04 07:56:21 it has to open db, load i May 04 07:56:23 load it* May 04 07:56:24 sure, but orders of magnitude less May 04 07:56:28 jacekowski: well, be my guest if you want to run oracle on your n900 May 04 07:56:29 no way to cache stuff May 04 07:56:38 its the microsoft access for linux :D May 04 07:56:56 * lcuk likes it as a small single user db May 04 07:56:57 dynamic field sizes May 04 07:57:04 lcuk: i prefer mysql May 04 07:57:07 with libmysql May 04 07:57:10 sqlite isnt bad May 04 07:57:16 you can keep yoursql then :p May 04 07:57:21 but ... its not amazingly fast May 04 07:57:21 ;) May 04 07:57:24 http://watchwolf.fr/blog/index.php?post/2009/09/27/Sqlite-versus-Eet May 04 07:57:26 mssql ftw! May 04 07:57:32 jacekowski: but well, you can't really compare an oracle cluster running on zLinux on mainframes with a database running on an n900 May 04 07:57:43 jacekowski, ive got mysql and sqlite in use in different places May 04 07:57:43 just scroll to the bottom if u want the numbers May 04 07:57:57 on a webserver - totally granted, mysql pwns May 04 07:58:12 but on the device sqlite is quick and effective as long as you dont overload it May 04 07:58:15 (eet beats sqlite by like about 5x) May 04 07:58:22 (example: i made a 115mb monster) May 04 07:58:32 gents, I wasn't trying to start a db-war May 04 07:58:36 in this case the actual kind of usage both are intended for - looking up stuff cached on disk May 04 07:58:49 I was just saying: calling sqlite from python is a lot faster than I expected May 04 07:58:50 cas no need for war :) May 04 07:58:53 sqlite is decent May 04 07:59:13 but its far from the most optimal thing out there for the domain intended :) May 04 07:59:24 meh, sqlite is also the main db on android May 04 07:59:42 Yes I need me a DB on my N900 - so I will install a full blown DB2 - sure! May 04 07:59:43 feel free to implement your own, I'm going with whatever works and requires least amount of work May 04 08:00:02 already do May 04 08:00:16 in this case, sqlite with python bindings is installed on nearly every n900, which means less space requirements for my users May 04 08:00:26 crashanddie, it sounds good to me. May 04 08:00:34 eet was written years ago. and its the basis of a lot of tech that runtime decodes data from disk per-widget May 04 08:00:42 and it works very fast because it was intended to do just that May 04 08:00:53 nice raster May 04 08:01:01 sure May 04 08:01:14 if all you want is "make my app work on an n900 with minimal dependencies" then thats fine May 04 08:01:33 if u are designing software and looking for a very fast/optimal way to store/save config (from c/c++ apps) May 04 08:01:53 and otherwise do the same for blobs of data like caches, contacts, etc. etc May 04 08:02:10 (stuff you read very often, modify rarely) then eet seems ti do better May 04 08:06:24 again May 04 08:06:37 "fast/optimal way to store/save config" is a stupid argument May 04 08:06:47 You read configuration once, write it once (in most workflows) May 04 08:06:56 it doesn't require blisteringly fast reaction times May 04 08:07:06 unless you read/write your config every millisecond, that is May 04 08:07:41 cache shouldn't be in a db, it should be in cache (duh) May 04 08:07:50 Morning May 04 08:07:59 and contacts is hardly something you would read extremely often, again May 04 08:08:17 i'm looking to try Qt SDK May 04 08:08:34 is it possbile to use Java to develop Qt apps? May 04 08:08:49 in other words: stop trolling about your db (that for some reason google france can't even find); the best way to convert people is by showing them use-cases (as in, in working applications) where the advantage is obvious. May 04 08:08:59 can't find docs on Java + Qt on qt.nokia.com May 04 08:09:04 crashanddie: depends what yopu mean by cache... have you ever tried to deal wiyth fdo standards? which eman u have to scane lots of directories load lots of .desktop file s - parse them May 04 08:09:07 linuxcentos: no, it's c++ or python May 04 08:09:12 crashanddie, contacts are read more than you think May 04 08:09:12 scane lots of fs heirachies hunting for icons May 04 08:09:15 u want caches. May 04 08:09:33 and as i mentioned - contacts. they are read very often compared to writes.. May 04 08:09:43 haha people flame over anything May 04 08:09:52 tekojo: any links to tutorial? May 04 08:09:54 speaking of which has anyone ported emacs to the n900 yet May 04 08:10:00 incoming call, search for contact. entering a phone numebr, email address etc. - trynig to match what you type to something in your contacts and present completions etc. May 04 08:10:06 narayan44: It's selling the technology stack -> trying to bring more contributors. May 04 08:10:13 nicely done, btw. May 04 08:10:15 so May 04 08:10:33 lcuk: and searching through 8 months worth of is done in .4 seconds, so there really isn't any reason to flame any more :P May 04 08:10:46 linuxcentos, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6//index.html May 04 08:10:47 s/worth of/worth of conversations/ May 04 08:10:47 crashanddie meant: lcuk: and searching through 8 months worth of conversations is done in .4 seconds, so there really isn't any reason to flame any more :P May 04 08:10:50 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/index.html May 04 08:11:13 tekojo, simple minds think alike May 04 08:11:18 mece you are fast! May 04 08:11:25 out of all this chatter about the new ovi beta... is it clear yet if this is contained to Ovi suite or is it known whether Ovi.com will follow suit and be compatible w/ the N900 soon too? May 04 08:11:45 linuxcentos, for python: http://www.pyside.org/documentation/ May 04 08:12:28 tybollt, it's just the ovi suite so far, afaict. May 04 08:13:33 crashanddie: no way it's doing it that fast May 04 08:13:41 crashanddie: or you are not talking a lot May 04 08:13:47 crashanddie: how big is that db? May 04 08:13:51 any pyqt/pyside coders around? I've got a possibly simple issue that I don't know how to solve. May 04 08:13:58 jacekowski: dunno, n900 is discharged, can't check May 04 08:14:20 sqlite doesn't have support for fulltext indexing May 04 08:14:31 so it can only use naive "bruteforce" search May 04 08:14:34 hehehe May 04 08:15:17 jacekowski: wha? fts3? May 04 08:15:17 it would be nice if apt-worker didn't have to bruteforce update everything May 04 08:15:36 but then again, just avoid using HAM and upgrades are painless May 04 08:19:32 ok whatevs, perhaps there's a similar solution in c++. So I've got a stacked window, and I want a function run in the main window after I return from the stacked one. How to do that? Alternatively, how do I access the parent window's functions? May 04 08:20:57 * raster wonders why you don't just hook a callback to the stacked window delete/close signal and run it there May 04 08:21:08 i assume qt has such a thing... May 04 08:21:23 Hi everybody ! May 04 08:21:33 * mece tips his hat to Khertan May 04 08:21:34 Hello! May 04 08:22:29 mece, sorry cann't help with pyqt/pyside i ve full of strange behavior May 04 08:22:31 I have a Nokia n900. May 04 08:22:41 ThoMe, yay you! May 04 08:22:44 What can I do for to compile to strongSwan (IPSEC, http://www.strongswan.org)? May 04 08:24:03 ThoMe, tru building with autotools in scratchbox as explained here: http://wiki.strongswan.org/wiki/strongswan/InstallationDocumentation May 04 08:24:31 s/tru/try May 04 08:24:35 ThoMe: ipsec and n900 isn't going to happen May 04 08:24:47 ThoMe: n900 kernel don't have required modules May 04 08:24:51 ThoMe, or don't. Thanks jacekowski May 04 08:24:52 jacekowski: oh, why? oh ok :-( May 04 08:25:19 jacekowski: and later is this modul available? May 04 08:25:25 but you can probably build them May 04 08:25:36 jacekowski, any reason why said modules couldn't be added in a custom kernel? May 04 08:25:52 you can add them May 04 08:26:02 jacekowski: I? i dont know.. how? :-) May 04 08:26:05 but if he's asking how to build that May 04 08:26:16 jacekowski: jo! :P May 04 08:26:16 then he's probably not going to know how to build kernel May 04 08:26:17 crashanddie, case in point about earlier: http://blog.barisione.org/2010-05/gtk-surprises-on-maemo/ May 04 08:26:17 you can load them virtually May 04 08:26:24 jaffa you get a mention too :p May 04 08:26:39 jacekowski: can you help me for built it? May 04 08:27:24 not really May 04 08:27:43 i've got no idea what toolchain nokia is using to build n900 kernel May 04 08:27:46 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/vpnc/ < i need auth via certificate and ike V2 May 04 08:28:07 and it's probably older than sb toolchain May 04 08:28:39 so best case scenario is that you will end up with tainted kernel May 04 08:32:29 boarning people :) May 04 08:32:50 lcuk: Ah, yes - I remember what barisione wanted to talk about now :-) May 04 08:32:51 roaming May 04 08:32:57 are you a boar now? May 04 08:33:01 lol jaffa :) May 04 08:33:24 Jaffa: yeah, I will report a bug for hermes in the next days :) May 04 08:33:51 barisione: Is there a spec for what file should be used for the contact picture? May 04 08:33:58 barisione: (i.e. location) May 04 08:35:42 Jaffa: you can put it where you want, but there is a but related to the deletion of the avatars May 04 08:35:48 I will tell you later in a bug report May 04 08:39:30 barisione, this is optimal location and the existing methods will work i gather? (since i know there are other apps which perform similar duties been asked about/notified wanting to do similar) May 04 08:45:23 ah solved. parentWidget() duh. May 04 08:51:52 So, are we placing bets on PR1.2 being released today? May 04 08:52:03 see topic May 04 08:52:04 I'll take, by-the-end of the month. May 04 08:52:47 oops May 04 08:58:21 it's dump that we are not allowed to talk about pr 1.2 without a punishment. May 04 08:58:36 Yes, talk about it and you will never get it May 04 08:58:42 Scelt: Dumb May 04 08:58:47 it's like kicking if talking about GTK May 04 08:58:55 viliny_: oh, typo :) May 04 08:58:58 :] May 04 08:59:21 What about Gtk in PR1.2? May 04 08:59:34 I just want Qt4.6 :( May 04 08:59:35 No! Don't say the forbidden words! May 04 08:59:56 I sense the dark side of the Force is strong in you May 04 09:00:54 ~pr1.2 May 04 09:00:56 pr1.2 is, like, not here yet. Stop asking. Read the topic Just stop asking. Read the topic. AND STOP ASKING. If you ask then release moves by another week, so do not ask. May 04 09:01:31 a week each time eh? i don't think i'll have the n900 in 24 years :/ May 04 09:01:53 do you guys know, if tehere is support for pan panu role in n900, official apparently not, but unofficial? May 04 09:02:23 Hah May 04 09:07:12 alterego, qt isn't the solution May 04 09:07:14 really May 04 09:07:16 Going to order a dataplan today :) May 04 09:07:21 gtk is far away better :) May 04 09:07:24 believe me May 04 09:07:25 :) May 04 09:07:44 Khertan: I might prefer Gtk, but Qt is the future ... May 04 09:07:48 There's no denying that. May 04 09:07:54 * Khertan is going to replace moblin on his netbook ... May 04 09:07:57 Khertan: heya :) May 04 09:08:12 alterego, qt isn't the futur ... it one possible future May 04 09:08:18 alterego, qt isn't the futur ... it s one possible future May 04 09:08:21 full speed (15Mb/s) unlimited usage 13,9e/month May 04 09:08:39 and i believe that you ll come back from this qt everywhere solution :) May 04 09:09:27 and all of this is a matter of preferences May 04 09:09:29 really May 04 09:10:44 well, if' you want to have somehow reasonable portability between nokia devices, qt may be wise way to go May 04 09:11:06 Ultra speed (0.8 Mb/s) unlimited usage (until you reach 500Mo) with full access (http and https only) 25.90 :) (french isp) May 04 09:11:26 Surfa, portability ... haha ! May 04 09:11:53 Khertan, using gtk it's not possible even in theory May 04 09:12:11 gtk on what ? meego ? May 04 09:12:32 it s in the schema showing different component of the plateform May 04 09:12:34 ok, so you just didn't read my first line? May 04 09:13:14 it s words portability that make me laught ... May 04 09:13:24 Not just Nokia devices, desktop machines too May 04 09:13:30 Maybe even server solutions. May 04 09:13:31 yep May 04 09:13:35 I quite like Qt to be honest. May 04 09:13:43 hum May 04 09:13:52 Khertan, it's so easy to stick one word on the line that contains multiple others too May 04 09:13:52 you ll got same result as with gtk :) May 04 09:13:58 Khertan: o2 seems to have fair fair use policy May 04 09:13:59 yep May 04 09:14:07 o2 ? May 04 09:14:16 yeah May 04 09:14:19 at least o2 uk May 04 09:14:26 ah sorry :) May 04 09:14:30 o2, that operator you know? May 04 09:14:51 o2 uk has a fup but they dont enforce it unless you really really take the piss May 04 09:14:53 didn't know them ... i didn't think they exist in france May 04 09:15:19 hi all May 04 09:15:45 we have only 3 isp here in france and i think that the problem come from that ... May 04 09:15:59 nid0: well i really took a piss and they didn't enforced it May 04 09:16:03 does maemo 5 have /proc/config.gz ? May 04 09:16:16 nid0: as far as i know they enforce it different way May 04 09:16:34 * noobmonk3y prods frals May 04 09:16:41 nid0: traffic is prioritized by amount of data downloaded May 04 09:16:42 * frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout May 04 09:16:45 eluiandil: no May 04 09:16:52 if no, how i can get current kernel configuration? May 04 09:16:52 hows you noobmonk3y? May 04 09:16:58 o2 used to apply a speed cap over 2gb afaik, but they abolished the hard limiting a while ago, now they just contact you if you pull in tens of gb and ask you to ease up May 04 09:17:04 :D :D ill, but apart from that, fine :P May 04 09:17:10 :D May 04 09:17:15 think i've figure out the healthcheck bug :| May 04 09:17:16 I need a new weapon... the guys are going nuts on tmo now May 04 09:17:22 just removed the gps and loaction examples :P May 04 09:17:28 figuring out a bug is usually ":D" :P May 04 09:17:33 lol true May 04 09:17:37 jacekowski: how i can get current kernel configuration? May 04 09:17:38 ok figured iout where it is May 04 09:17:42 just not why it happens May 04 09:17:55 noobmonk3y: you should just add a check so it doesnt run it if the user denies access to the gps May 04 09:17:57 semi-figured-out then :p May 04 09:18:04 good point May 04 09:18:12 also still not gotten a link to your git repo! May 04 09:18:19 or svn or cvs or whatever :P May 04 09:18:47 eluiandil: have you downloaded maemo kernel sources? May 04 09:19:23 lol frals May 04 09:19:29 setting up a git looked like a nightmare May 04 09:19:35 jacekowski: yes, from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/kernel_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz May 04 09:20:02 * noobmonk3y has very little experience with any of those, so slightly worried i may just bugger everything up May 04 09:20:32 eluiandil: you need diff as well May 04 09:20:46 eluiandil: then you unpack it May 04 09:20:50 eluiandil: patch it with that diff May 04 09:21:06 eluiandil: and then you will find config files where they should be May 04 09:21:24 lcuk: interesting link May 04 09:21:41 jacekowski: i will try this, thanx May 04 09:23:53 noobmonk3y: if you mess up the repo just start again :P May 04 09:24:11 :| repo? so confused i thought gits just store files? May 04 09:24:33 yeah the git repository :P May 04 09:25:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_%28software%29 ! May 04 09:25:37 I'm using git, it's awesome May 04 09:25:45 local commits just rock May 04 09:26:21 :| which git is best to use? :| i assume there is more then 1 :P May 04 09:26:30 Scelt, wouldnt have a clue what ya mean by that! May 04 09:27:55 apt-get install git-core May 04 09:29:32 noobmonk3y: you can commit locally changes and then push them to repo instead of just commiting them to repo. the advance is that you can commit code that isn't ready or fully tested yet if you want to try something else in between etc. May 04 09:29:56 ohhh - so without having to repackage everything over and over again? May 04 09:30:07 :) May 04 09:30:20 hmmm but can i do it on the device and my pc? :P May 04 09:30:32 you're going to far. I'm talking about source code, nothing about compiling May 04 09:30:37 too May 04 09:30:40 oh :( May 04 09:31:06 I'm mainly a web developer so not using much compiling at all May 04 09:31:08 frals, on the device i assume? May 04 09:31:37 noobmonk3y: yes, or wherever you got your code May 04 09:31:49 on a windows vista laptop, and the device :P May 04 09:31:58 easiest is to register at gitorious.org and create a project there and commit to, or use garage May 04 09:32:02 installing it on the n900 atm :P May 04 09:32:04 github? May 04 09:32:09 or github i guess May 04 09:32:56 * KnightStalker LOLs at nokia n8 sneak peak => http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/nseries May 04 09:33:00 whats that about :p May 04 09:33:08 peek* May 04 09:33:20 hmmmm now you gave me a choice, eeeeeek May 04 09:33:25 which one is easier lol May 04 09:34:16 frals, noobmonk3y im a member at both github and gitorious May 04 09:34:26 dunno i use gitorious, works for me May 04 09:34:26 lol thats cos u rock ;) May 04 09:34:28 gitorious is nicer :) May 04 09:34:30 and i like the webinterface! May 04 09:34:34 ooo i can use openid! May 04 09:34:35 yay May 04 09:35:11 but liqbase is staying on github because i tend to break git repositories when i move them May 04 09:35:50 hows the mouth lcuk ? May 04 09:36:15 24 minutes from not hurting any more hopefully May 04 09:39:32 awwwww May 04 09:39:38 right i have a gitorious account! May 04 09:40:31 lol it lost me on the first page :P ssh keys May 04 09:40:52 It's generally located in ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub or ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub. If you want to use multiple keys you'll have to add each of them seperately. May 04 09:41:22 noobmonk3y: Use ssh-keygen to create one May 04 09:42:14 * noobmonk3y thinks to say thanks but thinks X-Fade also just spoke in chinese ;) May 04 09:42:35 http://www.sshkeygen.com/ ? May 04 09:42:39 NO! May 04 09:42:47 lol May 04 09:42:48 That is the worst thing one can ever do :) May 04 09:42:50 haha May 04 09:42:58 use your n900 May 04 09:43:08 oooo May 04 09:43:10 gotcha! May 04 09:43:13 Letting your private key be created by a website. May 04 09:43:25 That opens you up to being hacked. May 04 09:43:39 i'm assuming a passphrase is a sensible idea May 04 09:44:13 its a little ott for some things but depends on your level of security required May 04 09:45:44 hmmm May 04 09:45:47 ok created i think May 04 09:46:16 noobmonk3y: Ok, then it should be in /home/user/.ssh/id_rsa.pub May 04 09:46:28 Is there any cron-like compatibility layer for alarmd? May 04 09:46:34 Or dsa if you created a dsa key. May 04 09:46:35 I just want to run some script every day May 04 09:46:40 yup just found a file May 04 09:50:47 lmfao May 04 09:50:52 loving the licence choice May 04 09:50:59 (on gitorious) May 04 09:51:31 any suggestions for licence? May 04 09:51:40 otherwise i may be on wikipedia for a while May 04 09:51:52 noobmonk3y: Depends on what you want out of it. May 04 09:52:07 wouldnt be open source if i wanted to be a millionaire lol May 04 09:52:28 If you want people to be able to steal it -> BSD May 04 09:52:42 If you like the source to be available even after fork -> *GPL* May 04 09:52:54 ooo gpl sounds fun May 04 09:52:57 so people can still use it May 04 09:53:06 but my project will be my project May 04 09:53:07 hello again May 04 09:53:12 hi wazd_n900 May 04 09:53:34 noobmonk3y: Well, with GPL your project won't be your project exactly. May 04 09:53:43 oh lols May 04 09:53:44 people, how can I unpack 7z archive on n900? :) May 04 09:54:12 noobmonk3y: Anybody can fork it, but they have to give you the source if you ask for it. (If they publish the app) May 04 09:54:17 ok i want a project to share my code - and allow others to upload obviously :P - but i suppose i need to release the idea of ownership May 04 09:54:28 X-Fade: 'publish' isn't the right word May 04 09:54:38 if i publish an app to a store and charge $1m May 04 09:54:42 I dont suppose theres an app which allows me to use the N900 as a wifi router for mobile data access from a laptop, is there? :) May 04 09:54:46 timeless_mbp: you can't May 04 09:54:49 and you don't buy it, you aren't entitled to source :) May 04 09:54:53 RichardP, two of them May 04 09:54:55 timeless_mbp: there is $199 limit as far as i know May 04 09:54:56 jacekowski: why not? May 04 09:54:57 joikuspot and mobile hotspot May 04 09:55:11 jacekowski: i didn't say 'ovi store' :) May 04 09:55:13 noobmonk3y: thanks May 04 09:55:20 :D May 04 09:55:21 is joikuspot something else then pre-alpha already? May 04 09:55:22 timeless_mbp: Yeah, but trying to explain the gpl to a noob in 2 sentences ) May 04 09:55:26 timeless_mbp: Kind of hard ;) May 04 09:55:28 adeus, 1.1 works fine for me May 04 09:55:34 just kick out every few hours though May 04 09:55:38 does* May 04 09:55:47 X-Fade, you did a good job :D May 04 09:55:56 interesting May 04 09:56:05 that current version I have works for about 10 seconds May 04 09:56:08 timeless_mbp: and with GPL one person can buy it and share source with everybody May 04 09:56:09 then the device boots May 04 09:56:16 :P May 04 09:56:19 noobmonk3y: Anyway, ownership and opensource is kind of hard. May 04 09:56:22 jacekowski: find a person w/ a million dollars for me, and we'll talk :) May 04 09:56:35 timeless_mbp: so you might sell only one million dollar copy May 04 09:56:37 good point May 04 09:56:45 jacekowski: that's ok May 04 09:56:54 open source doesn't work very well as business model May 04 09:56:57 even after 70% taxes, i'm still better off than i was a year ago May 04 09:57:23 it works quite well as something to save lot of money May 04 09:57:38 code reuse and etc. May 04 09:58:06 hmmm ok..... getting there May 04 09:58:08 Add new repository to Healthcheck May 04 09:58:10 it works out better to reuse somebody else code, give something to community and sell just software that works on top of it May 04 09:58:26 i'm assuming by repository i had a development repo or something to the project? May 04 09:58:53 jacekowski: unfair May 04 09:59:11 why? May 04 09:59:18 Hmm May 04 09:59:28 it's how everybody is doing it May 04 09:59:40 ohhhhhhhk May 04 09:59:44 i have a git repo! May 04 09:59:48 ugh May 04 09:59:50 use svn May 04 09:59:57 Wouldn't it be possible for the maemo community, or by Nokia to host a repository that have bug fixes and such? May 04 09:59:59 it seems to just be swearing at me a lot and calling me a git. :( May 04 10:00:08 On the parts that is open source i mean May 04 10:00:12 jacekowski, dont tell me that now lol! May 04 10:00:42 So things can improve before a new fw May 04 10:01:03 FIQ: We had that once, it was named Sardine. May 04 10:01:31 X-Fade: Stskeeps: Re: Community updates for diablo meeting - want to do it now? May 04 10:02:03 Because i feel the "release often" thing doesn't really seems to be crect. May 04 10:02:09 X-Fade: ok May 04 10:02:13 for fremanthle? May 04 10:02:16 -h May 04 10:02:21 FIQ: No, years ago. May 04 10:02:27 ahh May 04 10:02:31 oki May 04 10:02:40 s/crect/correct/ May 04 10:02:43 lma: Fine by me, I'm around. May 04 10:02:59 lma: Even better in about an hour actually. May 04 10:03:05 FIQ: who said anything about release often? May 04 10:03:20 sardine was a failure May 04 10:03:33 X-Fade: ok, I'll be here May 04 10:03:52 lma: Let's see if Stskeeps wakes up. May 04 10:04:21 isn't "release early, release often" a key thing with open source? May 04 10:04:50 X-Fade: mm? May 04 10:05:01 Stskeeps: Always works ;) May 04 10:05:06 sup? May 04 10:05:07 FIQ: Many projects do largely internal releases May 04 10:05:14 FIQ: Look at firefox, for example. May 04 10:05:38 Stskeeps: lma has time to meet now, you too? May 04 10:05:56 Stskeeps: Or actually I prefer to have it in an hour so I can get some lunch before it ;) May 04 10:05:57 or - rather - largely internal development till a release. May 04 10:06:32 X-Fade: i'm in a car towards warsaw on a n900, arrifing in 7 hours, so yes, in an hour is fine with me May 04 10:06:47 Stskeeps: As long as you aren't driving? :) May 04 10:06:47 FIQ: firefox fwiw releases at <6 month intervals May 04 10:06:51 would you call that often? May 04 10:06:56 there happen to be nightlies May 04 10:07:01 but those can be very crashy May 04 10:07:14 and whether those are actually key to anything is questionable May 04 10:07:24 X-Fade: wife driving May 04 10:07:32 Stskeeps: Good ;) May 04 10:07:36 ok, nvm then. :p May 04 10:07:37 there have been some really interesting bug tracking database studies recently May 04 10:07:53 which roughly show that there's a core group of people whose feedback is critical May 04 10:08:02 and then there's a huge group of people who are mostly time-sinks May 04 10:08:16 X-Fade: will join #maemo-meeting May 04 10:08:21 if the studies are accurate and predictive and if my interpretation is valid May 04 10:08:35 sounds like society to me timeless May 04 10:09:00 then one could argue that not releasing nightlies to the general public, but merely releasing them to that core group (which is not called 'core' in the study) would still work May 04 10:09:40 viliny_: well, now there's documented evidence that the virtual world acts like the normal world :) May 04 10:10:31 fwiw, i'm a personal believer in release-early-release-often May 04 10:10:36 and mozilla was indeed built upon it May 04 10:10:43 however, i also believe that most users are idiots May 04 10:10:51 and that i don't want idiots wrecking my cellular network May 04 10:11:02 and that i want to be able to make a 911 call when i have an emergency May 04 10:11:15 FIQ: 'nightlies' - you can indeed compile your own apps of the open-source code - there are just no binaries May 04 10:11:16 i do not want my ability to make that call to be hindered by a nearby idiot May 04 10:11:23 timeless: err... May 04 10:11:34 timeless: The cell modem is never going to be opensource. Ever. May 04 10:11:35 timeless_mbp: i'm an ok guy and i'm mostly friendly. I'm good at bunch of stuff but i honestly don't think i would be an asset to a bughunting project :) May 04 10:11:43 so i guess i'm an self-aware idiot May 04 10:11:57 timeless: nothing else in the phone can affect cell networks. May 04 10:12:09 SpeedEvil: not quite accurate May 04 10:12:11 timeless_mbp: then shouldnt the cell service provider get their finger out and prevent a single handset from causing issues? May 04 10:12:21 RichardP: that'd be nice May 04 10:12:25 how's it working so far? May 04 10:12:30 * timeless_mbp points to NYC and London May 04 10:13:20 SpeedEvil: phones can make lots of calls May 04 10:13:23 timeless_mbp: In what manner can a normally operating phone module screw with another one nearby? Other than perhaps using the towers bandwidth, and reducing download speeds? May 04 10:13:24 oh May 04 10:13:29 sure. May 04 10:13:33 as long as they can do that, then buggy user space can ruin the 911 network May 04 10:14:42 SpeedEvil: but please keep in mind, we aren't talking about 'normally operating phones' here May 04 10:14:50 we're talking about abnormal phones May 04 10:14:57 normally operating phone module May 04 10:15:07 Someone help me with my mobile =O May 04 10:15:08 your average human probably can't make more than one phone call per 5s, perhaps 10s, maybe longer May 04 10:15:11 I mean - you can't screw with the code running on that platform May 04 10:15:13 its killing me... May 04 10:15:36 SpeedEvil: the userspace code can almost certainly start and stop a phone call much faster than a human May 04 10:15:58 timeless: last I played with a cellphone via atd, it was somewhat faster - not enormously faster than 5s May 04 10:16:07 the setup/teardown time was quite long May 04 10:16:54 Admittedly, if you've got a thousand phones in a coverage area all doing that, that would be a problem, but that does seem like quite a stretch. May 04 10:16:56 SpeedEvil: are you willing to accept that most idiots aren't going to sit w/ their phone trying to call and hang up from the 911 operator repeatedly? May 04 10:17:02 My mobile says "device storge full bluh bluh" every min May 04 10:17:15 or that if we had such an idiot, we'd be willing to change the label from 'idiot' to 'evil' May 04 10:17:24 And calling 911 is not a bug May 04 10:17:32 It's a feature. May 04 10:17:33 KnightStalker: open xterminal May 04 10:17:35 df -h May 04 10:17:42 I already did May 04 10:17:44 SpeedEvil: calling it isn't a bug, sure May 04 10:17:46 rootfs is 100% full May 04 10:17:55 KnightStalker: well, that's your problem May 04 10:17:59 uninstall some stuff May 04 10:18:01 timeless_mbp: I mean - someone has to add that code intentionally May 04 10:18:08 uh? May 04 10:18:12 KnightStalker: disable all repos. May 04 10:18:18 Okay =) May 04 10:18:23 KnightStalker: should give you some space while you work something out May 04 10:18:33 KnightStalker: having the repos enabled alone takes several megs May 04 10:18:39 SpeedEvil: buggy code can do all sorts of stuff May 04 10:18:48 going into a loop is something that buggy code does fairly often May 04 10:18:55 timeless_mbp: i don't really see it as a potential threat that a bunch of n900 would start ddossing 911 May 04 10:19:13 the fact that 911 is special cased means that one doesn't need to have code that intentionally tries 'dial 9', 'dial 1', 'dial 1' May 04 10:19:14 timeless_mbp:well actually in the memory section of settings it says I have about 1 gig for applications May 04 10:19:17 whats that then? May 04 10:19:31 it can accidentally point to the 'dial_emergency_number()' function May 04 10:19:37 KnightStalker: that's irrelevant May 04 10:19:45 KnightStalker: nokia ui designers being idiots May 04 10:19:49 please ignore them for now May 04 10:19:56 lol May 04 10:20:10 saying idiot more than the smurfs say smurf :) May 04 10:20:12 there are 4 file systems in the n900 May 04 10:20:19 rootfs [OS core] May 04 10:20:38 app overflow [that thing] May 04 10:20:49 visible home May 04 10:20:53 mmc card May 04 10:21:01 the ui only tells you about the last 3 May 04 10:21:03 MyDocs = visible home? May 04 10:21:06 yes May 04 10:21:13 Got it ;p May 04 10:21:24 after diabling repos = 93% @ rootfs May 04 10:21:31 now uninstall some stuff :) May 04 10:21:31 what applications consume more rootfs? May 04 10:21:37 tempfs! May 04 10:21:40 there's an app for that :) May 04 10:21:48 SpeedEvil: that isn't visible in the ui we're talking about May 04 10:21:50 the name? :D May 04 10:21:57 KnightStalker: *shrug* May 04 10:22:01 lol May 04 10:22:07 KnightStalker: Install gnu-find - find / -ctime -20 -size +1000k May 04 10:22:19 apt-get? May 04 10:22:32 if you don't have rootsh installed, you'd need to install that first.. May 04 10:22:36 KnightStalker: that will find all files changed under 20 days ago, of over 1000k May 04 10:22:39 (f you want to use apt-get) May 04 10:22:57 SpeedEvil: does that span file systems? May 04 10:23:05 * timeless_mbp was never very good w/ using 'find' May 04 10:23:13 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/findutils-gnu/4.4.2-1maemo4/ May 04 10:23:14 oops May 04 10:23:22 yes - you need to find / -mount -ctime... May 04 10:23:30 sorry - not fully woken up yet. May 04 10:23:37 and one very very very annoying thing is that my mobile says something is missing when actually apt-get says its alright... May 04 10:23:42 I hate that May 04 10:23:53 ? May 04 10:24:01 there are probably better ways to find large packages May 04 10:24:14 frals, git sorted git core installed May 04 10:24:48 Also - if you find a package installing large amounts on / (where large >100k) - then mail the author, enter it in bugtracker, comment on tmo, or tattoo it on your forehead. May 04 10:24:56 why do you get kicked for asking about 1.2.. im just confused as the new Nokia Qt SDK requires you have PR 1.2 installed, how should i deploy my applications to the device? May 04 10:25:43 you dont. May 04 10:25:46 Zeddeh: this irc channel has publicly available logs May 04 10:25:53 they're linked from the channel topic May 04 10:25:56 you could read them May 04 10:26:04 they're even searchable May 04 10:26:12 you might consider reading some of them as a good investment May 04 10:26:15 meh May 04 10:26:21 lol May 04 10:26:36 reading random spam = good investment? May 04 10:26:44 noobmonk3y: and now go read git for dummies :D May 04 10:27:10 * noobmonk3y cries :( May 04 10:27:42 frals,noobmonk3y seems to be a noob but not a dummy :P May 04 10:27:55 I r noob - tis true..... May 04 10:28:35 * noobmonk3y is reading http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/gittutorial.html and crying some more May 04 10:28:49 Hmm,have someone tried flashing his n900 to meego? => http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_native_install_on_N900 May 04 10:29:04 noobmonk3y: personally, i'm quite happy using mercurial instead of git :) May 04 10:29:17 It's just a command line, ain't it? May 04 10:29:18 :| May 04 10:29:57 Has anyone gotten qt mobility working on maemo? :> May 04 10:30:12 I didn't :P May 04 10:30:19 yup May 04 10:30:24 messaging aswell? May 04 10:30:54 didnt try, but i believe the beta is a bit broken for messaging May 04 10:30:54 imo the ability to send SMS is pretty damn important May 04 10:30:57 and they fail at that. May 04 10:31:02 i think my problem is i dont understand how git helps May 04 10:31:07 it just seems a bit complicated May 04 10:31:10 noobmonk3y: helps do what? May 04 10:31:16 exactly ;) May 04 10:31:23 what problems do you have? May 04 10:31:28 git lol May 04 10:31:31 lpotter, have you stumbled upon any forum discussion regarding the matter? I would really like to find people trying to fix the issue :p May 04 10:31:40 git/hg let you work with other people asynchronously May 04 10:31:43 frals asked me to create a git so he could help me with healthcheck May 04 10:31:44 noobmonk3y: its version control - are you using any other thing to keep track of code changes currently? May 04 10:32:00 a text file and my head May 04 10:32:02 if you've finished step 1 May 04 10:32:07 and are going to work on step 2 May 04 10:32:15 and someone wants to review/fix your step 1 May 04 10:32:20 and you then finish step 2 May 04 10:32:33 and they then finish changing your step 1 May 04 10:32:39 you now have things which are inconsistent May 04 10:32:43 the question is how to deal w/ that May 04 10:32:46 :| May 04 10:32:48 Zeddeh: might be something on forum nokia May 04 10:32:54 nope May 04 10:33:01 not under qt atleast May 04 10:33:08 noobmonk3y: git/hg make dealing w/ that much easier May 04 10:33:17 ahhh ok, kinda get that May 04 10:33:28 used svn in windows before, that kinda made sense May 04 10:33:33 its probably console v gui May 04 10:33:41 i'm a visual person :P hehe May 04 10:33:51 although you should really have step 01…10 and 11…20 and someone else should have their own 11...20 May 04 10:34:13 because having only 3 changes where two of them are large / conflicting is always painful May 04 10:34:21 broken up into smaller steps, it's much more managable May 04 10:34:40 What i was thinking is why not build the messaging part myself, i just dont know which tool to use in the nokia qt sdk May 04 10:34:43 noobmonk3y: for hg, there's hgtk May 04 10:34:49 hg? May 04 10:34:53 i presume there's something similar for git May 04 10:34:56 hg=mercurial May 04 10:34:58 oh ok May 04 10:35:00 it's a competing vcs May 04 10:35:07 noobmonk3y: theres gui for windows for git afaik May 04 10:35:08 well, dvcs May 04 10:35:15 tortoisegit and smth else as well May 04 10:35:46 in my symbian sdk i do this May 04 10:35:47 C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe /K C:\Qt\symbian\bin\qtenv.bat May 04 10:36:02 i cant find anything similar for the sdk :p May 04 10:37:07 Zeddy: i think there's a #maemo-qt or #qt-maemo or something May 04 10:37:21 in general, i'd assume they're in a better position to offer help May 04 10:37:38 yeah im there aswell May 04 10:38:50 hey is there a recommended structure on opt? should the app data go under /opt/maemo/ or /opt/ or what? May 04 10:38:54 that channel is just rather dead when it comes to questions and answers :p May 04 10:39:17 mece: ls -l /opt May 04 10:39:25 mece: Currently it seems rather random May 04 10:39:28 SpeedEvil, I have all sorts. May 04 10:39:37 SpeedEvil, it should be decided upon. May 04 10:39:41 Sure May 04 10:39:45 hmm May 04 10:40:08 mece: fwiw, i found a solution that almost worked May 04 10:40:17 and then i hit a road block May 04 10:40:19 we seem to have /opt/appname/ /opt/producer/appname attempt /opt/attemptatuniqueid/appname/... May 04 10:40:25 so i'm now just going to install both packages May 04 10:40:30 timeless_mbp: what do you mean by london? May 04 10:40:32 and have runtime code figure it out May 04 10:40:33 mece: I would suggest something like java May 04 10:40:34 timeless_mbp, lol May 04 10:40:43 SpeedEvil, how does java do it? May 04 10:40:45 mece: /opt/mece.com/yourapp May 04 10:40:56 SpeedEvil, hmm.. May 04 10:41:00 mece: where the middle bit is a website you control May 04 10:41:20 SpeedEvil, I don't have one. Well I do but there's not much info there. May 04 10:41:23 anyone know of any jobs in Europe? More specifically, I'm a security consultant by trade, but have a heavy background in programming. I'd be interested in a tools developer position, or an R&D position where POCs are important. Bonus points if it can be remote May 04 10:41:24 RichardP: http://www.google.com/search?q=carrier%20london%20appologizes May 04 10:41:32 Is there a guarantee that tehre will not be two packages of the same name? May 04 10:41:47 SpeedEvil: installed at the same time? yes May 04 10:42:17 SpeedEvil, should be yes. apt would scream angrily if you tried to install something else with same package name May 04 10:42:36 I suppose then that makes packagename a sensible /opt/foo/ May 04 10:43:19 SpeedEvil, I suppose. There is also the stuff that is symlinked from rootfs. I believe there is some of that under /opt/maemo/ May 04 10:43:25 i really hope meego and symbian 3 will have a working development environment May 04 10:43:31 otherwise they will fail May 04 10:43:48 Zeddy: i've setup a build env w/ symbian 3 May 04 10:43:52 it wasn't too painful May 04 10:43:56 Zeddy, QtSDK looks pretty nice too.. May 04 10:44:01 i mean, i only filed about a dozen bugs trying to set it up May 04 10:44:11 yes but they never seem to get all parts working May 04 10:44:12 Zeddy, or was that the one you're having trouble with? May 04 10:44:26 timeless_mbp: thats got sod all to do with a bad phone or app, and everything to do with a crap provider - O2 wasnt geared up for an unlimited data plan and it showed (I had an O2 iPhone from day 1, until about a month ago when I switched to the N900, O2s data plan always sucked, even when you put the iPhone sim card into a different phone) May 04 10:44:31 timeless_mbp, LOL May 04 10:45:15 I think I'll go with /opt/appname/ May 04 10:45:49 RichardP: um May 04 10:45:51 mece: well yes, that too. Im actually developing an app for s60 5th edition, but the mobility -messaging has a bug http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-64 which makes it impossible to actually send a SMS, it just puts them in the draft folder, so now i decided to try out the Nokia QT SDK and try to deploy my app to maemo, only to find out they left out messaging completely May 04 10:46:00 go read the context? May 04 10:46:00 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mobile+operator+apologizes May 04 10:46:04 one can only imagine my frustration, the deadline would be next monday May 04 10:46:04 is link enough May 04 10:47:01 RichardP: the context was getting operators to not suck May 04 10:47:17 my point is that … it isn't happening May 04 10:47:44 Though, that would probably be related to loads of tossers buying an iPhone and saturating the network with their fart app downloads. May 04 10:48:51 timeless_mbp: but the context has nothing to do with your earlier point - the problem had nothing to do with an individual handset or app May 04 10:49:15 RichardP: it was a response to a local request May 04 10:49:20 omfg May 04 10:49:36 just love it when my computer reboots in the middle of a 3 hour installation May 04 10:49:44 timeless_mbp: what? May 04 10:50:03 oh brother May 04 10:50:06 now i've missed lunch May 04 10:50:09 * timeless_mbp blames RichardP May 04 10:50:25 Zeddeh: you love that? May 04 10:50:27 timeless_mbp: heh, send me the bill :) (note: i have not offered to pay it, just receive it from you) May 04 10:50:33 I would kick the computer May 04 10:51:12 KnightStalker, so would i, only i think the rebooting is because of all the hitting May 04 10:51:32 RichardP: jpg from an n900 ok? May 04 10:51:47 * timeless_mbp considers various options May 04 10:51:59 thats what you get when you buy a 800 euro laptop for 100 euro May 04 10:52:05 timeless_mbp: sure, jpg of a 20 note ok in return? May 04 10:52:43 W00t @ Zeddeh May 04 10:52:44 Any applications like Shazam for n900 just yet? May 04 10:52:55 bah, how about you give me your address and i'll send you the bill w/ a self addressed postage paid envelope inside May 04 10:53:23 * timeless_mbp has no idea what currency RichardP was using May 04 10:55:28 timeless_mbp: GBP was what I was using :) May 04 10:58:06 RichardP: everybody knows that GIFs of seven-legged spiders are the standard form of payment in e-mail! May 04 10:59:09 heh May 04 10:59:55 lol May 04 11:16:06 hmnm May 04 11:16:40 hm... do I need to depend on maemo-optify or is just 'echo auto > debian/optify' enough ? May 04 11:16:56 Hah, poor N900 user dropping his phone down the toilet. pahahaha May 04 11:16:57 gutted May 04 11:19:03 ~poke X-Fade May 04 11:19:04 * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind X-Fade, pokes X-Fade repeatedly, hilarity ensues. May 04 11:19:34 lol May 04 11:20:18 * KnightStalker changes the poke message of his bot to infobot's message :D May 04 11:22:16 X-Fade: did you change anything with regard to the autobuilder autooptification autoyet ? 'Cause if you haven't I have something interesting for you... May 04 11:23:35 hey what's the variable for user home directory in a shellscript? May 04 11:23:46 ~ May 04 11:23:48 :) May 04 11:24:01 Khertan, doh, thanks May 04 11:24:15 $HOME ? May 04 11:24:32 $HOME was what I was looking for. May 04 11:24:35 * timeless_mbp doesn't think of ~ as a variable May 04 11:24:58 so how do I concatenate $HOME? I know nothing of shellscripting May 04 11:24:59 tmo d\own? May 04 11:25:01 tmo down again ;o May 04 11:25:14 mece: $HOME/foo should work May 04 11:25:17 he's dead, Jim May 04 11:25:21 heh May 04 11:25:22 $HOMEbar will not do what you want May 04 11:25:32 It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. May 04 11:25:41 timeless_mbp, thanks. May 04 11:25:47 achipa: Meeting atm, will get back to you. May 04 11:25:56 X-Fade: np, whenever you have time May 04 11:26:24 as for the homebar, that's ${HOME}bar IIRC May 04 11:26:27 http://www.downornot.com/talk.maemo.org May 04 11:26:31 talk.maemo.org is down! May 04 11:26:40 OMG ! You don't say ! :) May 04 11:26:51 Hah May 04 11:26:58 will "foo >> $home/.foo/output.txt" create the .foo directory? May 04 11:27:04 no May 04 11:27:05 err$HOME May 04 11:27:06 ok May 04 11:27:13 mece: you need to mkdir first May 04 11:27:19 mece: no, May 04 11:27:25 It will create the file though May 04 11:27:35 (if the directory exists) ;) May 04 11:27:35 (given that the directory exists) May 04 11:27:39 damn May 04 11:27:45 inx, timeless_mbp, alterego, thanks, and lol :D May 04 11:27:51 np May 04 11:27:52 inz even :P May 04 11:28:05 I prefer inx, change your name! :D May 04 11:28:11 nevar May 04 11:28:45 would this be appropriate to avoid error messages: mkdir $HOME/.foo/ > /dev/null May 04 11:29:03 mece: 2> /dev/null May 04 11:29:08 oki. May 04 11:29:38 > gives everything, and 2> just errors? May 04 11:29:43 mece: although mkdir -p is probably cleaner May 04 11:29:57 mece: > is stdout, 2> is stderr May 04 11:30:09 i c. May 04 11:30:14 is there a way to get both? May 04 11:30:52 yes May 04 11:30:53 mece: 2>&1 May 04 11:31:07 >/dev/null 2>&1 May 04 11:31:19 ordering is important here May 04 11:32:07 The maemo.org - Talk database has encountered a problem. May 04 11:32:19 meeeeeh May 04 11:32:31 Oh no! May 04 11:32:37 It might all have been deleted! May 04 11:32:42 The tragedy! May 04 11:33:20 558 nicks... May 04 11:33:37 morning May 04 11:34:06 morrrrning May 04 11:34:15 morning chaps May 04 11:35:00 morrrrrning May 04 11:36:46 morning lardman MohammadAG May 04 11:37:35 2:40pm May 04 11:37:42 hey lcuk, lardman, noobmonk3y :) May 04 11:38:42 o/ May 04 11:39:06 i would like an mp3 player that auto-ffwds through music and only plays spoken voices May 04 11:39:08 * MohammadAG asks lcuk to show timeless_mbp the morning/night thing May 04 11:40:30 what does "StartupWMClass=appname" in .desktop files do? May 04 11:40:49 good morning MohammadAG, lcuk, lardman, noobmonk3y, et al. May 04 11:40:53 why do I feel tmo is crapping out on me Sorry, the forum is unavailable for maintenance. May 04 11:41:00 http://www.google.com/search?q=StartupWMClass May 04 11:41:02 hey Termana_n810 May 04 11:41:07 hey all May 04 11:41:13 MohammadAG, timeless knows all about internet time, he just likes to be picky :p May 04 11:41:20 lol May 04 11:41:33 he is afterall, timeless May 04 11:41:43 http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html May 04 11:41:48 Good point lmao May 04 11:41:54 If specified, it is known that the application will map at least one window with the given string as its WM class or WM name hint (see the Startup Notification Protocol Specification for more details). May 04 11:43:04 hmm May 04 11:43:16 * timeless_mbp wonders how to file bugs about freedesktop.org standards May 04 11:43:28 how do I mark a range of photos so that I can mail them or whatever May 04 11:43:34 hmm ok I donä't know how to "map at least one window with the given string as its WM class" so I'll just skip that one. May 04 11:44:00 Oh and the maps app in the n900 - what a piece of shit May 04 11:44:29 are we acting as a tmo replacement now ? :) May 04 11:44:38 LOL May 04 11:45:01 I actually tried to use it and man was it ever worthless :) May 04 11:45:26 Will Qt get us ovi maps 5.0? May 04 11:46:22 is ovi maps 5 written in Qt ? May 04 11:46:36 is there an ovi maps 5? May 04 11:46:39 s/in/with/ May 04 11:46:39 achipa meant: is ovi maps 5 written with Qt ? May 04 11:47:02 meh,you missed the joke May 04 11:47:08 why the fuck does that s/there/tharr thing ever work for me? May 04 11:47:19 MohammadAG, aaahaha. Yep. May 04 11:47:44 err.. s/ever/never May 04 11:47:44 lol May 04 11:47:47 I really need it. May 04 11:47:53 s/need/want May 04 11:47:55 mece, you don't know the sintax May 04 11:48:00 apparently not. May 04 11:48:03 s/sintax/syntax/ May 04 11:48:03 MohammadAG meant: mece, you don't know the syntax May 04 11:48:05 damn May 04 11:48:08 :) May 04 11:48:10 last / May 04 11:48:15 s/damn/doh/ May 04 11:48:16 mece meant: doh May 04 11:48:18 ahaa May 04 11:48:31 s/ahaa/I'mAnIdiot May 04 11:48:36 lol May 04 11:48:37 mece: trailing / May 04 11:48:45 Hi, I'm getting this error: "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /targets/links/scratchbox.config: No such file or directory" after I upgraded to Ubuntu 10.04 lucid, when I try to build Fennec - any one else seen this? May 04 11:48:46 s/: /: you need a / May 04 11:48:46 s/lol/mece is an idiot/ May 04 11:48:46 zash meant: mece: you need a trailing / May 04 11:48:47 mece meant: mece is an idiot May 04 11:49:07 thanks :) May 04 11:49:10 hi noobmonk3y, MohammadAG, lcuk May 04 11:49:19 * lardman battles with online expense claim system May 04 11:49:21 well that killed the conversation! May 04 11:49:25 s/foo/bar May 04 11:49:31 s/foo\/bar/baz/ May 04 11:49:36 tses! May 04 11:49:47 hehe May 04 11:53:55 noobmonk3y, how does your dependencies for healtcheck work on pr1.1.1 when it's qt? May 04 11:54:07 whatcha mean? May 04 11:54:08 4.5.2 maybe May 04 11:54:13 hmm.. May 04 11:54:27 well ok.. but it's pyqt May 04 11:54:33 does pyqt depend on 4.5.2? May 04 11:54:41 python2.5, python2.5-qt4-gui, python2.5-qt4-core, python-dbus, python2.5-gtk2, python-location, gstreamer-tools, pulseaudio-utils, python-hildon, pyside-qt4-core, pyside-qt4-gui May 04 11:54:47 those are my dependencies lol May 04 11:55:04 ok, does pyside-qt4-core work on pr1.1.1? May 04 11:55:14 ahhh dunno :P May 04 11:55:16 I had a lot of trouble to get that installed on my device. May 04 11:55:29 that i added yesterday so not sure May 04 11:55:34 i ve version 0.2.3 installed May 04 11:55:34 righty-o. May 04 11:55:52 Khertan, yeah, but if you have no version installed, how will hammy react? May 04 11:56:15 hum ... force the install from older version with apt May 04 11:56:16 i think May 04 11:56:38 apt-get install pyside-qt4-core=0.2.3 May 04 11:56:47 or something like that May 04 11:57:01 The following packages have been kept back: May 04 11:57:01 gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-subtitles gstreamer0.10-plugins-good-extra gtranslate mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer pyside-qt4 pyside-qt4-core pyside-qt4-gui May 04 11:57:01 pyside-qt4-opengl python2.5-qt4 python2.5-qt4-common python2.5-qt4-core python2.5-qt4-dbus python2.5-qt4-gl python2.5-qt4-gui python2.5-qt4-network May 04 11:57:01 python2.5-qt4-phonon python2.5-qt4-script python2.5-qt4-sql python2.5-qt4-svg python2.5-qt4-test python2.5-qt4-webkit python2.5-qt4-xml python2.5-qt4-xmlpatterns May 04 11:57:02 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 23 not upgraded. May 04 11:57:04 ouch May 04 11:57:06 sorry May 04 11:57:08 :) May 04 11:57:27 cannot be upgraded due to depandancies issue May 04 11:57:47 Khertan, but ok, can you make it depend on an older version then? May 04 11:57:57 Khertan, to avoid the problem until pr1.2 appears May 04 11:58:26 mece: pyside has no qt4.5 version May 04 11:58:33 achipa, righty-o. May 04 11:58:39 achipa, there is the problem then. May 04 11:59:02 I'll test this with pyqt4 then. May 04 11:59:16 mece, i fact i'm surely not the better to ask ... as my install was a bit mess May 04 11:59:23 and many think isn't working May 04 11:59:28 like QSyntaxHilight May 04 11:59:44 i'm doing initial dev with PyQt4 currently May 04 12:00:05 and as PySide should be api compatible you will have just the import statement to change May 04 12:00:42 can i back to pr 1.1 or not plz May 04 12:00:53 it will be still a while until that import statement is worth changing May 04 12:01:13 MAK_, If you ask that, I'm guessing not. May 04 12:01:55 (in fact, things being the way they are, I'd say it's quite pointless to switch before Harmattan) May 04 12:01:58 mece_: so wehn the offical pr 1.2 relased can i upgrade to it normally May 04 12:02:20 MAK_, I'd think so. I'm guessing you have the leaked firmware? May 04 12:03:05 MAK_: you can go back, but your phone will not work May 04 12:03:06 (to 1.1) May 04 12:03:31 mece_: because the radio verison upgraded ??? May 04 12:03:33 SpeedEvil, I'd classify that as "no, you can't" ;) May 04 12:03:58 mece: If it just stopped phone calls, I pretty much wouldn't care. May 04 12:04:11 mece: lack of data would be a dealbreaker though May 04 12:04:18 SpeedEvil, well you're not normal now are you? ;) May 04 12:04:35 SpeedEvil, Well 3g data would not work either. May 04 12:04:44 thnx all May 04 12:05:42 oh ffs @Frals :P - phone keeps kicking me off wireless and going over to mms lol May 04 12:06:28 Happy star wars day btw May 04 12:06:40 may the 4th be with you! May 04 12:06:51 noobmonk3y, try changing the mode May 04 12:07:00 hehehehe May 04 12:07:14 havnt even got fmms working yet lol May 04 12:07:22 well yet - as off this week since reinstall May 04 12:07:26 yet you are getting many mmss May 04 12:07:44 i got 1 a few weeks ago :D May 04 12:08:02 my tongue is still numb May 04 12:08:20 but i'd have it numbed again in a heartbeat May 04 12:08:53 :P May 04 12:09:21 How to reflash the N900 with production image May 04 12:09:27 hmm.. no Qt.WA_Maemo5StackedWindow in qt4.5? May 04 12:09:45 mece, nope May 04 12:09:48 qt4.6 May 04 12:09:56 mece: There's not realy any mobility stuff in 4.5 no maemo specific stuff, it's all in 4.6 May 04 12:09:59 welcome in the wonderfull world of qt May 04 12:10:00 :) May 04 12:10:25 noobmonk3y, halp! May 04 12:10:34 Khertan: you prefer Hildon? :P May 04 12:10:45 alterego, yes May 04 12:10:46 :) May 04 12:10:55 Heh May 04 12:11:39 * Khertan is trying for the 6th time to write the ubuntu iso to an usb key May 04 12:11:46 fakkingfrakketycrud! May 04 12:11:57 Khertan: worked first time for me ... May 04 12:12:02 ok, so it's not possible to get a qt4.6 app to extras, I'm guessing. May 04 12:12:09 currently. May 04 12:12:15 * Khertan is tired by wifi problem and no update May 04 12:12:20 cant wait until meego is usable :) May 04 12:12:23 alterego, most of the time too :) May 04 12:13:40 mece: you're guessing rught May 04 12:13:45 lol lcuk - that msg killed my xchat May 04 12:14:17 noobmonk3y, is it possible to do portrait mode and stacked windows in qt4.5, if yes then how? May 04 12:14:37 mece, not in qt May 04 12:14:42 stacked window can be done by passing the main window as parent May 04 12:14:42 5.6 you can i think May 04 12:14:47 yeah May 04 12:14:54 but wont work in newer qt version :P May 04 12:15:02 but ll not work in qt4.5 May 04 12:15:04 but ll not work in qt4.6 May 04 12:15:14 Khertan, so simply create a new QMainWindow with old window as parent. May 04 12:15:24 retro compatibility what ? :) May 04 12:15:36 mece, exactly ... but work only for qt4.5 not 4.6 May 04 12:15:38 :) May 04 12:16:10 win = HelloWindow(MainWindow) May 04 12:16:10 win.setAttribute(Qt.WA_Maemo5StackedWindow) May 04 12:16:21 ignore the second line in 4.5 May 04 12:16:29 this little example annoy me so much that i ll just wait until 4.6 to continue my qt dev :) May 04 12:16:36 lol khertan May 04 12:16:45 i fear that there is many example like this May 04 12:17:00 and when you start learning a new framework it s didn't help you May 04 12:17:33 like the QSyntaxHilght working in pyqt4 not in pyside May 04 12:17:41 and seems broken too on qt4.6 May 04 12:17:42 :) May 04 12:17:54 Noice May 04 12:18:03 i needed pyside to fix stackable windows as 4.5 wasnt playing ball May 04 12:18:26 ? it does work via the parenting game May 04 12:18:44 achipa, for qt4.5 only May 04 12:18:45 :) May 04 12:19:09 can anybody tell me how to flash N900 May 04 12:19:21 Dharmendra, with a firmware May 04 12:19:28 look at maemo wiki May 04 12:19:35 Link plz ? May 04 12:19:35 Khertan: no, I'm not talking about that, but pyside vs pyqt May 04 12:19:46 ah sorry May 04 12:20:17 hum ... i don't think how it s really works ... but from what i understand pyside should have same api than pyqt and same result May 04 12:20:24 no the case actually :) May 04 12:20:38 but still beta too May 04 12:20:44 so nothing to whine May 04 12:20:56 just as i'm learning qt it s a bit annoying May 04 12:20:56 Khertan, can you plz share me the wiki link ? May 04 12:21:16 Dharmendra, http://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing May 04 12:21:21 Thx May 04 12:21:27 pyqt is less beta :) but obviously if something is off in qt, then it can megically fix that May 04 12:21:42 with pyside it's a double-beta May 04 12:21:44 :) May 04 12:21:51 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware May 04 12:23:03 s/can/cannot/ May 04 12:23:07 no hi ... no bye ... nice May 04 12:23:13 /ignore Dharmendra May 04 12:23:15 grr May 04 12:23:45 * tybollt is guessing the people in here are effectively telling people how to get crax0red/leax0red firmwarew on to an N900 =) May 04 12:24:02 it s seems May 04 12:24:11 but what ... it ll not ask twice May 04 12:24:25 so yes achipa - it seems you folks ARE replacing TMO May 04 12:24:27 the next time after bought an replacement n900 device :) May 04 12:24:31 * MohammadAG kicks tybollt May 04 12:24:52 go right ahead buddy =) May 04 12:24:55 that can't be done on tmo :P May 04 12:25:01 wait, nobody ranted about MMS yet... May 04 12:25:22 achipa: no fun, there _is_ mms now :( May 04 12:25:55 flash 10.1 ? May 04 12:25:59 bastard frals - taking away our reasons to whinge :-( May 04 12:26:43 yeah exactly. providing solutions. what is he thinking.. :) May 04 12:27:00 slap him with a trout! May 04 12:27:24 pfft, next you're going to tell me somebody did a portrait SMS app... oh, wait... May 04 12:28:20 Heh May 04 12:28:28 I'm liking the look of that app actually. May 04 12:32:08 yeah, now you can write sms again while you drive... except I think it still illegal to do so May 04 12:34:06 I tell you what though, the Qt SDK simulator is awful .. May 04 12:34:36 I don't like the way the menubar is not in the UI May 04 12:35:16 I'm guessing it's just a window, which hasa themed frame as the actual device .. May 04 12:35:28 Doesn't even theme it :( May 04 12:35:42 yabba: that's a regional issue May 04 12:36:31 alterego: so you're saying engadget is wrong? May 04 12:37:30 asj: wrong about what? May 04 12:37:47 alterego: the Qt SDK is the most adorable thing they've seen out of Nokia May 04 12:38:00 err, SDK simulator May 04 12:38:08 Really ... May 04 12:38:41 ayup May 04 12:39:30 anyways, bed time, work starts in < 10 hour, wtf May 04 12:39:37 Well, I think it's pretty awful, though, I could be doing something wrong .. May 04 12:40:40 alterego, is it better than the old one? May 04 12:41:18 oh well. I'll just go for pyside and qt4.6.2 and go for extras once pr1.2 is out. May 04 12:41:23 Do you mean better than scratchbox? Erm, maybe it will be, but I think scratchbox is far better, though there is obviously a great deal of difference between a simulator and an emulator in this case. May 04 12:41:32 mece: good choice ;) May 04 12:42:01 To qt developpers ... what is the best way to implement an "pseudo" auto indentation on a QTextEdit, currently i ve subclass it and test if it s a return key in the keyPressEvent but it s a bit slow May 04 12:42:05 any idea ? May 04 12:42:31 howdy May 04 12:42:32 Khertan: to #qt developers. :P May 04 12:42:45 alterego, oh yes ... true May 04 12:42:46 :) May 04 12:43:14 * lcuk got redirected from #qt to #qt-creator for a question last night May 04 12:43:15 Not sure why your method is slow though, seems a pretty logical implementation choice.; May 04 12:43:22 but then got a mirrored answer in both :) May 04 12:43:28 Heh May 04 12:43:36 :) May 04 12:45:59 mece: just out of curiousity, what works for you better in pyside under 4.6 than in pyqt ? May 04 12:47:59 The LGPL? :D May 04 12:49:49 alterego: GPL vs GPL an obstacle for Extras ? May 04 12:50:09 GPL vs LGPL May 04 12:50:19 i couldnt find repo for erminig-ng. is there one? May 04 12:50:22 I wasn't being serious achipa May 04 12:50:37 I would hope PySide is better supported and more heavily developed. May 04 12:50:41 That would be my reasoning. May 04 12:51:19 currently i got a maemo theme in a qtextview with pyside (rounded corner) and not with pyqt May 04 12:52:12 alterego: I wouldn't be surprised seeing PyQt switch to LGPL when PySide gets anywhere near a completed state May 04 12:52:24 alterego: at which point it's a lot ado about nothing May 04 12:53:38 and Maemo missed a year's worth of python/qt apps... but I digress May 04 12:54:22 the bottom line is that today, paradoxical as that might sound, PyQt has better support for Maemo 5 than PySide does May 04 12:55:50 achipa, better support isn't exactly what i say ... as not real maemo theme ... but true, works better May 04 12:55:51 :) May 04 12:56:35 Khertan: pyside doesn't even support the Maemo5 classes yet under shiboken May 04 12:57:03 achipa, i didn't look so far yet in qt ... just the basics so i didn't see that :) May 04 12:57:17 hence my surprise of mece's enthusiasm of going for Extras with PySide... May 04 12:59:56 Hi! May 04 13:00:27 I want to install about 3-4 apps that need libqt4 or something of qt4 May 04 13:02:02 how can I install those deps? May 04 13:02:29 the_lord, exactly define "something" first May 04 13:02:52 andre__, libqt4* May 04 13:02:58 python-qt4* May 04 13:03:15 and now please drop the * and be exact May 04 13:03:37 let me search for the deps of one of them May 04 13:04:01 andre__, the answer is the same for all python-qt4* depandancies May 04 13:04:09 wait pr1.2, isn't it ? May 04 13:04:19 *most* probably yes May 04 13:04:39 Khertan, but I want them now :P May 04 13:04:39 ah hum maybe force install of old version May 04 13:04:40 but can also be "don't use 4.5" May 04 13:04:42 .w 4 May 04 13:05:37 hm May 04 13:05:52 why does the gps seem to take forever to get a lock? May 04 13:05:58 espeakcaller, needs libqt4-core and libqtgui May 04 13:06:12 it screws up my cam geotagging May 04 13:06:14 Mace_N900: do you allow it to connect to the network? May 04 13:06:22 the_lord, they're in 1.2 May 04 13:06:32 is there a specific option for that? May 04 13:06:36 Mace_N900, maybe you are not using triangulation via your provider May 04 13:06:43 Mace_N900, it takes 5 seconds here May 04 13:07:19 I must say I wasn't impressed with Map's update time when I was walking around Bristol, with data, the other day May 04 13:07:24 MohammadAG, I know, but I don't know when pr1.2 will come May 04 13:07:32 but that's probably Map being crap rather than the AGPS May 04 13:07:35 see subject of channel May 04 13:07:35 i have network positioning on May 04 13:07:52 andre__, I'm not asking for it May 04 13:07:55 is there some other server i should be using for tmobile? May 04 13:08:20 probably ... May 04 13:08:28 right now it is set to the default supl.nokia.com May 04 13:08:38 Mace_N900: using the supl.nokia.com (iirc) one? May 04 13:08:44 the_lord, tbh no@one knows May 04 13:08:45 the_lord, nobody knows a date. that's all. May 04 13:08:46 i know that sfr block other server and force user to use the sfr one May 04 13:08:55 lardman, yes May 04 13:09:02 Khertan: oh right May 04 13:09:02 s/@/\ May 04 13:09:08 it is set to that by default May 04 13:09:10 the_lord: disable extras-devel, install pyqt, and you're good to go May 04 13:09:15 uhm what May 04 13:09:19 Mace_N900: I use that with Vodafone, should work fine I guess May 04 13:09:21 MohammadAG, I know, but there's got to be a way to install them May 04 13:09:26 hm May 04 13:09:33 libqt4-maemo5-* May 04 13:09:33 vodafone is sfr May 04 13:09:37 do network operators block suppl.nokia.com? May 04 13:09:38 maybe it needs to download the sat data May 04 13:09:44 achipa, I use some apps from devel May 04 13:09:51 i doubt it May 04 13:09:51 tybollt, in which country and which operator? May 04 13:09:51 Khertan: works for me afaict in the UK May 04 13:09:52 tybollt: i've heard rumors that some do May 04 13:10:02 hm May 04 13:10:08 timeless_mbp: that's ... wow :-| May 04 13:10:09 i wonder if tmob does May 04 13:10:14 vodafone block me getting map images for the location widget May 04 13:10:15 the_lord: it doesn't matter - just don't install the pyqt from extras-devel as that one is for PR1.2 May 04 13:10:17 timeless_mbp: how bloody anal can they get? :S May 04 13:10:18 tybollt: not internally May 04 13:10:20 lardman, ah... maybe this are specifics for this stupid french people May 04 13:10:23 Which is annoying, but AGPS works fine for me through voda May 04 13:10:27 the_lord: you can re-enable it after isntalling May 04 13:10:32 from memory it was a maemo owner who indicated it May 04 13:10:42 Khertan: perhaps, if so sorry to hear that May 04 13:10:46 hm May 04 13:11:00 does the phone use the internet for sat data? May 04 13:11:13 operator : sfr , country : france ... May 04 13:11:22 Mace_N900: for assistance to improve the lock speed, yes it can May 04 13:11:26 instead of downloading it from the 300bps sat May 04 13:11:32 and indeed it needs to to get a decent lock speed May 04 13:11:35 lardman, yeah May 04 13:11:42 thats what i mean May 04 13:11:44 contract : unlimited internet (restricted to http, https and 500Mb by month) May 04 13:11:45 yep May 04 13:11:51 hm May 04 13:11:52 timeless_mbp: I meant internally May 04 13:12:05 does this geotagging do it by default? May 04 13:12:16 or the built in stuff? May 04 13:12:22 i still havent locked yet May 04 13:12:31 but we can use the sfr server which seems working too with n900 ... May 04 13:12:40 achipa, how do I install a old version of a package using apt-get ? May 04 13:12:42 Mace_N900: everything uses the liblocation library, so they will all use assistance to get a lock May 04 13:12:49 hm May 04 13:12:55 even better, how do I know the available versions? May 04 13:12:56 ok then. weird May 04 13:13:13 well. let me stick it on a roof or something May 04 13:13:19 Mace_N900: but the repeat interval can be set by each app individually iirc May 04 13:13:21 the_lord: apt-get install package=oldversionnumber May 04 13:13:29 hm May 04 13:13:35 so if it fails it needn't try again immediately... I think May 04 13:13:46 i see May 04 13:13:47 the_lord: but that will probably not work because of dependencies May 04 13:13:53 ok. i will figure it out May 04 13:14:05 bacause my pics dont have geotagging on them May 04 13:14:16 the_lord: really, your best bet is to install without extras-devel, I'm not saying that for kicks May 04 13:14:17 Mace_N900: that can be disabled in the app settings May 04 13:14:40 anyon else notice that alarms on the N900 work even if it is OFF. It 'wakes' and sounds the alarm clock... Nice feature, but a little concerning for us tinfoil hat wearers :) May 04 13:15:17 mtnbkr: it's called RTC, and is in every computer and phone since like, at least 20 years ago May 04 13:15:46 achipa: unless you have a 770 where it rolls over every 60min or so hey? ;) May 04 13:15:50 More than 20 years ago :) May 04 13:15:58 ah well.. ok May 04 13:15:59 (or something like that anyway) May 04 13:16:00 More like 25 years ago May 04 13:16:01 thanks May 04 13:16:06 lardman: details ! :D May 04 13:16:14 achipa: :) May 04 13:16:22 25, 25 , do I hear a 30 ? May 04 13:16:28 :) May 04 13:16:30 30! May 04 13:16:36 Just kidding :D May 04 13:17:01 mtnbkr, that's what I love most about it! May 04 13:17:07 hey, I still recall the RTC being an upgrade for Amiga users ! May 04 13:19:44 I remember my dad hacking the RTC on an Acorn A3000 to switch a relay to turn the A3000 on and it loaded a program off of a floppy which downloaded all the share prices from a teletext decoder. May 04 13:19:50 To this day that machine is still running .. May 04 13:19:59 He's probably got about 15 years of stock info. May 04 13:23:52 alecrim: what exchange? May 04 13:24:27 s/alecrim/alterego/ May 04 13:24:28 tybollt meant: alterego: what exchange? May 04 13:25:32 neat -- someone is running gimp thru autobuilder May 04 13:28:54 achipa, excellent, I disabled devel, but the apps I want are there :P May 04 13:29:07 I guess I'm screwed til pr 1.2 May 04 13:29:21 pupnik: I'd rather have a paint application :-| May 04 13:30:03 the_lord: which apps exactly are we talking about here ? May 04 13:30:18 espeakcaller, for instance May 04 13:30:27 koffice is another one May 04 13:31:01 okay, koffice is unrelated to pyqt, you need pr1.2 for that one May 04 13:31:13 but for espeakcaller, do what I said May 04 13:31:17 disable extras-devel May 04 13:31:20 install pyqt May 04 13:31:24 enable extras-devel May 04 13:31:25 tybollt: FTSE May 04 13:31:31 Probably more, I don't know off hand. May 04 13:31:31 install whatever you need May 04 13:31:33 ... May 04 13:31:35 profit May 04 13:31:37 etc etc May 04 13:32:18 achipa, espeakcaller is _in_ devel May 04 13:32:35 let me be more specific May 04 13:32:42 1. disable extras-devel May 04 13:32:44 2. install pyqt May 04 13:32:51 3. enable extras-devel May 04 13:32:56 4. install espeakcaller May 04 13:33:03 done May 04 13:34:06 achipa, hmm, let me try that May 04 13:34:25 the point is just that you don't want espeakcaller to auto-install the newest pyqt in extras-devel May 04 13:37:34 why the catalog list in the app manager takes so long to populate> May 04 13:37:35 ? May 04 13:38:42 because there is also old lib in extras-devel May 04 13:44:11 I'm trying to compile the maemobrowser example from Qt 4.6 to run on my N900, but I keep getting a symbol lookup error for QAbstractKineticScroller May 04 13:44:46 What exactly could be the problem here? It runs fine in scratchbox May 04 13:45:00 plenty of things to do for mypaint tybollt May 04 13:45:13 zomg: and what version of Qt do you have on your device ? May 04 13:45:23 achipa, how do I know which apps are installed in / ? May 04 13:45:27 achipa: I installed maesheep from extras-devel which as far as I know should install 4.6 May 04 13:45:34 I have no space left on device May 04 13:46:16 achipa: using apt-cache show libqt4-core says 4.5.whatever though, so I'm not quite sure if it's installed correctly May 04 13:46:55 achipa: So, you had an idea? May 04 13:49:55 whoa, traffic :) May 04 13:50:09 X-Fade: well, a question first: May 04 13:51:55 X-Fade: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/abiword/2.8.1-2/ May 04 13:52:18 achipa: so any ideas for my prob? I'm really just beginning with this maemo stuff so it could be some very elementary mistake on my part =) May 04 13:52:19 I upped this, has debian/optify -> auto, and yet the autobuilder ignored it May 04 13:53:06 achipa: Hmm strange. May 04 13:53:10 Let me check the logs. May 04 13:53:12 Okay, maybe I was a little hard on the simulator earlier, I might have to come up with a development strategy that uses the sim for lightweight testing, then moves to scratchbox and then moves to device. May 04 13:53:21 zomg: the Qt4.6 installed with maesheep is a different package, it's not a replacement for PR1.2 May 04 13:53:44 That is until the sim properly matures. May 04 13:53:55 achipa: so is there any docs on how to actually make it work? May 04 13:54:04 the sdk docs and whatever I can google aren't very helpful at all May 04 13:54:20 zomg: the simple solution is to wait for PR1.2 May 04 13:54:35 Sorry but that won't do =) May 04 13:54:39 Unless it's due out tomorrow May 04 13:54:41 or so May 04 13:55:09 zomg: the hard way, which does work, is to downgrade your qt packages in the SDK May 04 13:55:25 zomg: and use libqt4-maemo5 to build your app May 04 13:55:47 So that would work for 4.6 stuff? We are developing specifically for 4.6 May 04 13:56:25 zomg: yes it would work UNTIL pr1.2 (I told you, it's the hard way) May 04 13:57:13 Okay, sounds good enough =) Thanks May 04 13:57:24 np May 04 13:59:19 Is it possible turn on /off the flash camera in n900? using gstreamer or dbus May 04 14:03:49 pablo2: do you mean turn on the flash light for the main camera? May 04 14:04:19 alterego, ys May 04 14:04:51 achipa: Why do you use dates in the future in your changelog btw? May 04 14:05:45 X-Fade: errare humanum est ? my dchg-or-whatsitcalled is broken so I resorted to manually poking it.. May 04 14:06:14 X-Fade: don't tell me THAT broke it ? :S May 04 14:06:27 pablo2: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Flash_Torch May 04 14:07:03 achipa: No, that should not matter. in the builder at least. May 04 14:07:31 alterego, thanks May 04 14:07:57 pablo2: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=flashlight-appl;a=tree;f=src;h=2bad4d4db2e419afc4ec97b3082818cb746bc516;hb=HEAD May 04 14:08:02 That may be of more help May 04 14:09:09 moo all May 04 14:09:18 Moo to you too RST38h May 04 14:09:27 re-moo May 04 14:11:19 RST38h, baaaaa May 04 14:11:23 oh sorry wrong animal May 04 14:11:25 :P May 04 14:12:24 PR1.2?!? May 04 14:12:27 * RST38h hides May 04 14:12:54 tis getting old May 04 14:12:56 :P May 04 14:12:59 Heh May 04 14:13:01 Where?!?!?! May 04 14:13:09 Gawd, there goes another week :P May 04 14:13:27 I can't wait for 1.2 to come... stop all these bloody people asking for it. May 04 14:14:09 achipa: I have no idea why it didn't run. You can also try to add maemo-optify in your debian/rules May 04 14:14:17 Then we can have a bit of calm before they start crying about PR1.3 May 04 14:14:30 we need a 1.2.1 May 04 14:14:32 achipa: But otherwise ask on -developers, Marius might know. May 04 14:15:19 X-Fade: same thing happened with gsfonts... though I later on realized that might have been a mistake to upload at all May 04 14:15:56 actually, as long as the current maemo branch is a dead end, I'd much rather like Nokia to focus on getting MeeGo based os running....and to suppoer it on N900, preferably. May 04 14:16:33 X-Fade: does it make any difference that I uploaded this via scp -> drop.maemo.org (prolly not) May 04 14:18:39 achipa: No, it should run in the last part of the build phase. May 04 14:20:11 Stskeeps, is there any way to press enter on mer? May 04 14:20:22 (specifically X Terminal on it) May 04 14:21:32 ctrl-m May 04 14:21:45 (yes, this is the 80s) May 04 14:27:09 Stskeeps, thanks! May 04 15:06:12 say hey May 04 15:38:22 help please what is the default lock code for the n900 ? May 04 15:38:38 21345 May 04 15:38:40 124345 May 04 15:38:43 * SpeedEvil sighs. May 04 15:38:45 12345 May 04 15:38:51 It's in the manual. May 04 15:39:01 Which is deeply unhelpful to normal people. May 04 15:40:35 SpeedEvil: 12345 did not work .. damn i am screwed now May 04 15:43:41 please help how do i factory reset the n900 since i have forgotten the lock code ? May 04 15:44:03 give it back to the guy you stole it from? May 04 15:44:51 pupnik: its mine ... i pressed the power button and selected "secure device" now i can't get back in May 04 15:45:11 :/ maybe someone knows May 04 15:45:40 an0therb0x: did you set the lock code? Or is it still default? May 04 15:45:42 that means you put in a code May 04 15:45:57 if it were the default it would have asked to change it the first time you press secure device. May 04 15:46:32 In which case, have you tried the common boring codes like 1 2 3 4 5 May 04 15:46:43 yeah i have only one code which is what i use whenever i power cycle May 04 15:46:52 but that code no longer works May 04 15:47:03 that probably is the sim's pin. May 04 15:47:05 an0therb0x: you mean the sim lock? May 04 15:47:12 The lock code is 5 digits usually .. May 04 15:47:24 Have you tried adding adigit like 0 to the end or seotmhing you might have done? May 04 15:47:36 12345 is the default isnt it? May 04 15:47:50 Well, that's what I use :P May 04 15:48:11 I use the word "use" loosely ;) May 04 15:48:19 lol May 04 15:48:37 Right, nome time, see you all on the other side ... May 04 15:49:21 damn this is not cool ...12345 does not work and my "original" lock code does not work as well May 04 15:52:57 the good news is that you should be able to get it back -- the bad news is that the only way I know requires deleting some data. May 04 15:53:20 A Nokia Care center should be able to do it also, btw. May 04 15:55:08 with proof of ownership you can prolly ask them May 04 15:56:23 Is there any way for me to import ALL of my calendars from Google Calendar to my N900? May 04 15:57:02 reggna: you should be happy if you manage to get some of your data from ONE of your calendars May 04 15:57:24 google sync support was not an advertised feature May 04 15:58:01 Is there any improvement on this? Or is it a lost cause? May 04 15:58:23 1.2 should be better than 1.1.1 May 04 15:58:42 but even there i wouldn't expect better than the happiness i describe above May 04 15:58:50 there's a third party which offers a turnkey solution May 04 15:58:57 you could consider them May 04 15:59:36 timeless_mbp: Where can I find them or there software? May 04 16:01:06 their May 04 16:01:50 nuevasync May 04 16:02:30 they're a good group and iirc contribute to open source, but they have a business model May 04 16:02:41 (so does nokia fwiw, although far be it for me to understand nokia's) May 04 16:02:46 Thank you. May 04 16:07:40 note that i'm not affiliated w/ them and haven't used their software, so no warranty, but it might work May 04 16:07:50 and they're certainly much more responsive than ms or nokia :/ May 04 16:15:50 i believe a recent package update is causing issues with the n900 lock code May 04 16:18:02 if so, maybe someone else will report the same problem an0therb0x May 04 16:18:27 which package May 04 16:18:30 so did anyone flash the hacked 1.2? May 04 16:18:38 feel free to point fingers cause this would be a very important topic. May 04 16:19:05 lols May 04 16:19:34 * javispedro has brief romance with hp tc1100 May 04 16:23:23 Best comment of the day: "Was diablo officially discontinued by Nokia?" May 04 16:23:30 He needs a "Fixed in Fremantle" t-shirt May 04 16:24:39 javispedro: how does the device feel? top-heavy in laptop mode? May 04 16:25:04 feels like a 800-page book, a bit heavy indeed. May 04 16:25:08 must be +1kg May 04 16:25:29 C-S-B: I have ... 5 weeks ago ;) May 04 16:25:39 you liking it? May 04 16:26:10 Well, not so much, there were some grave issues (which is why it's not released) still on that release May 04 16:26:22 * javispedro giggles May 04 16:26:58 Hey, I have moved now officially away from fremantle. The amount of coordination needed is slowing down and I moved to Harmattan yesterday. May 04 16:27:15 The teams now know what they are working next, and my involvement is not needed anymore. May 04 16:27:51 oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it. May 04 16:27:56 I am now pushing 50% of my time to something I cant tell, and the rest 50% on improving our 3rd party developer maemo API story. May 04 16:28:58 buibui May 04 16:29:37 "grave issues" isn't good to hear :/ May 04 16:29:39 On the maemo API, my immediate focus points are atm on making sure extension points have been defined (or will be), so that we are catering well enough also non-libMeegoTouch applications/extensions May 04 16:30:01 microlith: always on the last days/weeks there are only grave issues left (and found). May 04 16:30:13 of it would be minor, the release would be made immediately May 04 16:30:22 nobody will delay a release for a minor issue. May 04 16:30:36 understandably May 04 16:31:45 and often, the grave issues are related to long period usage, which tends to mean that it will only be really found when testing is continuing longer. Or, e.g. SSU issues can sometimes only be found when enough volume of devices is used to test upgrades from weird 1.1.1 configurations (and states) to the latest and greatest. May 04 16:32:22 konttori: those words would be well put to T.M.O. to help stop the whinging May 04 16:32:28 ;) May 04 16:32:31 i agree May 04 16:32:41 so there's a good chance all these "early adopters" will hit these >.> May 04 16:32:55 * noobmonk3y blinks May 04 16:34:04 wohooooooooo May 04 16:34:30 just 'committed' something to git - i actually still dont understand what i did, but it worked! May 04 16:36:04 noobmonk3y, "committed" or "pushed"? :-D May 04 16:36:17 erm... both i have a feeling lol May 04 16:36:22 well it pushed something May 04 16:36:28 heh May 04 16:36:32 healthcheck off a cliff May 04 16:36:43 ;) May 04 16:36:47 http://gitorious.org/healthcheck/healthcheck May 04 16:36:51 well it only shows a push May 04 16:36:58 so i'm going with "push" as the answer to that May 04 16:37:21 lol i scared lcuk3 off May 04 16:37:27 moment of truth May 04 16:37:28 well the other lcuk May 04 16:37:30 nahh noobmonk3y May 04 16:37:34 :P May 04 16:37:34 just virginity fail May 04 16:37:38 hehehe May 04 16:38:46 pupnik: I don't think anything will stop that. May 04 16:39:04 konttori, i really do think it will help :D May 04 16:39:23 anyway, I hope it's not long anymore. We *again* have a good candidate, so the release is near (if nothing goes wrong) May 04 16:39:38 * noobmonk3y thinks that should be stamped on every tmo mebers login page May 04 16:40:03 members* May 04 16:40:14 konttori: fwiw, −8 was ok in my book May 04 16:40:17 -10 sucked May 04 16:40:21 lol May 04 16:40:44 konttori: that's ignoring the fact that someone broke the sip stack May 04 16:40:55 so when i make calls, it still rings after the call connects :( May 04 16:41:05 * timeless_mbp hasn't gotten around to filing that May 04 16:41:13 * lcuk slaps timeless_mbp May 04 16:41:21 * noobmonk3y laughs May 04 16:41:27 quite a funny bug :P May 04 16:41:41 lcuk: well, if they have a candidate, surely people will hear for themselves soon enough :) May 04 16:41:45 * lcuk hasnt noticed it May 04 16:41:54 so timeless is the one lengthening the wait.... and therefore allowing the tmo ranters to rant more? lol May 04 16:41:58 any idea which week May 04 16:42:00 lcuk: how often do you call +1800555TELL using skype over GPRS? May 04 16:42:13 noobmonk3y: i didn't file the bug May 04 16:42:15 i dont May 04 16:42:21 so how can you blame me for it? :) May 04 16:42:22 thats what i meant timeless ;) May 04 16:42:38 well, someone else will rant if that is a bug ;) - anyway May 04 16:42:39 only people who file bugs really lengthen the wait May 04 16:42:45 they will rant if there arn't no bugs anyway May 04 16:42:51 anyway, after about half a minute, the ringer stops May 04 16:42:54 are no* May 04 16:46:24 * noobmonk3y prods MohammadAG_ May 04 16:46:27 meh May 04 16:46:31 xchat died May 04 16:47:00 hey, can someone here load about:plugins for me ? May 04 16:47:09 (microb browser, 1.1.1 or older on n900) May 04 16:47:31 it's empty May 04 16:47:49 thanks May 04 16:48:00 oh no wait, a few seconds after progress bar vanished text appeared May 04 16:48:13 Installed Plugins... Default Plugin May 04 16:48:20 oh, it's just slow? May 04 16:48:21 try loading May 04 16:48:23 http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/23/plugins.htm May 04 16:48:25 and May 04 16:48:26 http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/23/plugins.html May 04 16:48:28 * MohammadAG_ blames noobmonk3y's install May 04 16:48:35 hey, i'm trying to setup a facebook chat account to my conversations without any duplicate contacts constantly popping up, and i heard Jabber's the best option, but I have no idea what jabber is and how I get it to work :/ May 04 16:49:20 timeless_mbp, yeah those load in about 4sec May 04 16:49:40 does it show the same list? May 04 16:49:57 No May 04 16:50:04 konttori: so ovi _suite_ is being worked on apparently, when will ovi_.com_ get some love, n900-wise? May 04 16:50:22 can you pastebin.mozilla.org the two lists? May 04 16:50:39 tybollt: afaik they're unrelated groups May 04 16:51:41 timeless_mbp: someone told me even ovi.com has different groups/teams for each thing there (like calendar, contacts etc) May 04 16:51:58 correct May 04 16:52:16 it's an umbrella, not an integrated team :) May 04 16:52:28 the only thing it has is an integrated slow updating device support list May 04 16:52:57 timeless_mbp: anyway I'm really just trying to wrap my head around why Nokia ignores the best feature in years for the N900. May 04 16:53:24 tybollt: i'm sure there's a good dilbert cartoon for this May 04 16:53:44 oh oh oh May 04 16:53:58 ondevice about:config: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/720959 your first url: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/720960 second: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/720961 May 04 16:54:03 http://duncaninfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dilbert_marketing.jpg May 04 16:54:28 this doesn't fit but it is awesome ... http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/70000/0000/600/70675/70675.strip.gif May 04 16:54:49 pupnik, dilbert is always awesome May 04 16:55:30 timeless_mbp: =) May 04 16:56:04 pupnik++ May 04 16:56:07 * ShadowJK wonders how to tell media player plugin that media player can play ogg May 04 16:56:07 ShadowJK: thanks May 04 16:56:26 ondevice about:plugins really ends there May 04 16:56:44 http://charliealfred.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/dilbert-1.png?w=764&h=228 May 04 16:56:48 is an interesting one May 04 16:56:57 i know an engineer at nokia w/ personal experience w/ that one May 04 16:56:57 sadly May 04 16:57:04 timeless_mbp; the last package you released yesterday did wonders, didn't kill widgets and the odd GUI problems seems to have disappeared May 04 16:57:28 Trizt: wow May 04 16:58:31 Trizt: is it actually translating stuff? May 04 16:58:43 because i think the last update i shipped was basically empty :( May 04 16:58:45 seems so May 04 16:58:50 hahahaha timeless_mbp May 04 16:59:09 pupnik: well, one of my packages was an armel v. all conflict May 04 17:03:49 anybody in tampere want to do dinner sometime? May 04 17:04:47 * timeless_mbp goes out for a while May 04 17:04:54 have fun May 04 17:11:55 tybollt: ovi suite is worked on, of ovi.com, I don't understand what you mean May 04 17:13:28 * konttori loves that last dilbert. It rings so true in large organizations May 04 17:13:46 hehe. most of them do. May 04 17:14:17 konttori: ovi.com is entirely not compatible with the N900 device. When will device capability be added for the N900? Actually a word from Nokia that they at all will be adding N900 support for ovi.com (whenever) would suffice... May 04 17:15:05 tybollt: like what kind of issues are there (I was never managing browser, and I don't use ovi.com, so I have no clue what kind of issues you mean) May 04 17:15:15 As it stands pretty much every phone ever released (well...) by nokia can sync various content OTA w/ ovi.com, but the Nokia supposed flagship N900, can't. :-( May 04 17:16:01 there's "syncing" on ovi.com? I thought it was just a website May 04 17:16:08 konttori: syncing your phonebook, your calendar, your over the air. May 04 17:16:13 * tybollt slaps sjk :) May 04 17:16:23 tybollt; I think ovi is a windroid only thing, they seen to that less and less of it can be used by normal people May 04 17:17:04 so what - is being able to edit your calendar on the web NOT a nifty thing all-of-a-sudden? May 04 17:19:35 tybollt; yes, it requires you to install some strange program that don't work on anything normal but on microsoft only May 04 17:19:57 lol May 04 17:20:04 :P May 04 17:20:14 Trizt: no May 04 17:20:26 Trizt: you _entirely_ missed the point, so very very entirely :) May 04 17:20:33 I don't install programs on my xp machine, it's best that way May 04 17:21:25 Trizt: ovi.com is _entering your data in a web browser of your choice_ and then syncing with your mobile - has N O T H I N G to do, nothing what-so-ever with windows. May 04 17:21:36 xp has a bluetooth stack, so driver discs with bt dongles are evil. XP is perfectly able to use phones as modems over bluetooth too, so pcsuite things must be evil :D May 04 17:22:12 I am talking about ovi.com - syncing OTA, not Ovi Suite, sigh... May 04 17:22:15 different things May 04 17:24:37 tybollt; I noticed that they changed the flies to require that horrible software, won't take long before everything there will use the application instead May 04 17:25:53 does music bought on the nokia ovi music thingy work on the n900? May 04 17:26:21 noobmonk3y: bet it won't May 04 17:26:24 meh May 04 17:26:27 want to get some music May 04 17:26:35 noobmonk3y: seriously, I have no idea May 04 17:26:36 tybollt: I see, so synch issues. DUnno, again something I wasn't handling. May 04 17:26:37 and never had an mp3 player as they make it so hard to figure out May 04 17:26:46 but buying music from nokia? jeebus May 04 17:26:46 noobmonk3y; no, DRM May 04 17:26:48 * SpeedEvil still hasn't claimed his 5 free tracks. May 04 17:26:53 Trizt, no idea May 04 17:26:59 wish it would just tell me May 04 17:27:01 noobmonk3y; it has May 04 17:27:09 oh then the n900 wont work poo :( May 04 17:27:18 * Trizt nods May 04 17:27:20 dont get it 8 for an albumn and i cant play it on then 900 :( May 04 17:27:27 the* May 04 17:27:45 is there anywhere that goves good drm free music? :D (Ata cost obviously) May 04 17:27:50 but you an't download the songs with a normal machine either May 04 17:27:51 I think whether it works or doesn't work on n900 depends on where Nokia thinks you live, and if they're wrong you have no way of making them change their mind :) May 04 17:28:02 * konttori is very axiously waiting for pr1.2 to go out so that extras devel will receive the wonderful qt4.7 and qt quick! May 04 17:28:11 lol konttori May 04 17:28:16 konttori: you and just about everyone else I think May 04 17:28:18 feed the developers beer, normally works May 04 17:28:18 :-) May 04 17:28:34 konttori: There's something very profoundly wrong in that comming from ... you :) May 04 17:28:40 right... so no-one buys music online and copies it to their device? May 04 17:28:56 lol, but I'm waiting for it for entirely different reasons. May 04 17:29:06 konttori, pr1.2 comes with QT porn? lol May 04 17:29:08 noobmonk3y, it's too damn difficult, complex and hard compared to piracy May 04 17:29:14 I think that qt quick will change fundamentally the way we develop apps for both mobile and for desktop May 04 17:29:26 ShadowJK, i know! and it bugs me! i want to buy and they just wont god damn let me! May 04 17:29:35 * frals trouts noobmonk3y May 04 17:29:37 too lazy to buy a cd and rip it, just want to download, and have it on my device! May 04 17:29:41 konttori: in what regard - care to elaboratE? May 04 17:29:42 * noobmonk3y kicks frals May 04 17:29:42 noobmonk3y; my gf "bought", but she can only listen those on her phone, she is not that happy, at least it was freebies, but she will not spend any money there to get any more May 04 17:29:46 ~kick frals May 04 17:29:48 * infobot kicks frals May 04 17:29:55 * tybollt trouts noobmonk3y May 04 17:30:07 oh ok.... May 04 17:30:13 meh that doesnt hugely bother me May 04 17:30:18 thats kinda the only place i want it May 04 17:30:38 rarely listen to music except when i run, and i always take the n900 with me, as i use ecoach May 04 17:30:57 noobmonk3y; by principles, i don't spend money on tings that I haven't the freedom to use as it fits me May 04 17:31:00 I used to try to buy one song per new music shop. You'd get on to phone and one to PC. It didn't take long before I discovered the songs worked on neither :) May 04 17:31:13 huh May 04 17:31:17 * frals goes back to preparing fmms 1.0 May 04 17:31:22 hmmmmmmm May 04 17:31:27 well, it completes the separation of the UI and logic in a very fine way, essentially creating a 3 tier architecture for UI, UI logic (javascript), and c++. Quite like how web development is done, with the difference of direct access, however, this time for full fledged application development. May 04 17:31:36 it does make me chuckle that in a room of people no one knows a legal easy way lol May 04 17:31:55 noobmonk3y, because there isn't one May 04 17:32:04 when the qml + common widgets is true, then it is indeed a very very powerful combination May 04 17:32:04 :| worrying! May 04 17:32:07 frals: which comes first? fmms 1.0 or pr 1.2? May 04 17:32:27 scelt - it is the version that Trouts..... it will beat PR1.2 before PR1.2 beats it ;) May 04 17:32:28 noobmonk3y: I just rip my cds to flacs and do what I want with them, play them anywhere, on any of my computers or my N900 - no DRM May 04 17:32:42 mtameni, too geeky, too much effort, and i own no cd's May 04 17:33:05 mtnbkr, May 04 17:33:08 meh wrong person May 04 17:33:12 auto tab w000psie May 04 17:33:19 noobmonk3y: you have an N900 and ripping a CD is too geeky? ha May 04 17:33:23 yup ;) May 04 17:33:26 lol May 04 17:33:39 would rather hone my geekiness to ertain things, some things in life i like to be easy May 04 17:33:43 like my women.... May 04 17:33:45 :P May 04 17:33:45 lol May 04 17:33:51 connect a usb cd-rom to the n900 May 04 17:33:52 shit better get ready b4 the missus gets here May 04 17:34:33 ovi works nicely now: 500 Internal Server Error May 04 17:34:52 lol May 04 17:34:57 new beta? May 04 17:35:07 actually the new beta one seems pretty good (ovi suite that is) May 04 17:35:10 suite, store, share, maps, mail...? May 04 17:35:51 noobmonk3y; don't work on a real os and can't accept eula on game-console os May 04 17:36:16 ? May 04 17:37:24 noobmonk3y: he's bitching that it doesnt work on linux, and is a fanboy who cant use windows properly May 04 17:38:13 * konttori loves the humor of qml security description: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativesecurity.html ... google probably would not set that as an example ;) May 04 17:38:57 nid0; it just make people frustrated as it don't work properly, at work we only have problems with machine that run game-console os May 04 17:39:41 find an administrator that can set them up properly? May 04 17:40:39 ovi works nicely now: 500 Internal Server Error May 04 17:40:43 nid0; won't help, the administrator won't be able to fix bugs in the microsoft code May 04 17:40:44 thumbs up Nokia, thumbs up! May 04 17:42:17 Mohammad: Why? May 04 17:43:02 Oh, the Ovi... May 04 17:47:23 what is our position wrt "Flash Lite" May 04 17:48:04 pupnik: we don't have it May 04 17:48:17 AIUI May 04 17:49:28 what is flash lite? May 04 17:49:50 pupnik: you can run flash lite apps in the browser May 04 17:50:08 tybollt, flash used on symbian devices May 04 17:50:10 they run just fine (and pretty much faster than 'real' flash May 04 17:50:37 I didn't know fullflash ran flashlite too :) May 04 17:52:24 ty konttori May 04 17:54:28 wb gcobb May 04 17:55:29 pupnik: you can test also on your web browser flash lite apps. May 04 17:55:50 e.g. http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/0306dc84-25c6-4e5f-81a5-4397045b7af4/Flash_Lite_Visual_Example_v1_0_en.zip.html May 04 17:56:06 then just drag swf to your browser (or open in browser of your n900) May 04 17:56:46 if you then want to create flash lite 'application', just copy the content of the tutorial applet, it is a good example of how to create fullscreen flash application on the device. May 04 17:57:00 then just replace the tutorial.swf with your own, and boom. May 04 17:57:12 konttori: do you use mfe? May 04 17:57:17 (obviously, also make a new .desktop file and the usual stuff) May 04 17:57:22 timeless: yeah May 04 17:57:49 try opening calendar, open a synced item May 04 17:57:52 swipe left May 04 17:57:55 swipe right May 04 17:58:03 does it say the item is synced? May 04 17:58:18 for me, on this n900 it says n900 (Local) May 04 17:58:38 if i leave the view and open the item directly, it says n900 (Synced) May 04 17:59:53 lemme see... May 04 18:01:19 timeless: yeah, it does May 04 18:01:45 does which? May 04 18:03:51 timeless: it says local after swipe back. May 04 18:04:20 cool May 04 18:04:40 anyone here use mfe w/ pr1.1.1 or older? May 04 18:05:44 konttori: next exciting feature May 04 18:05:49 switch to agenda view May 04 18:06:14 open the app menu, settings, manage calendars, uncheck birthdays and synced May 04 18:06:33 tap done, save May 04 18:06:40 you should be in agenda mode May 04 18:06:49 moo May 04 18:06:53 but for me, i (sometimes) have a blank window May 04 18:07:26 if you switch to week and back to agenda, you should see a button for new event May 04 18:07:27 lol, I have stumbled often on odd things in calendar application May 04 18:07:30 confirm? May 04 18:07:31 hi konttori May 04 18:08:11 the calendar app seems to be full of magic tricks May 04 18:08:30 things to make you blink and think you were seeing things May 04 18:09:44 cannot click on "Start" in Flash_Lite_Visual_Example.swf May 04 18:20:31 Hi May 04 18:21:09 * KnightStalker is now away May 04 18:21:22 hi May 04 18:22:10 timeless: calendar app is full of bugs too May 04 18:23:56 =query #meego May 04 18:24:06 oops May 04 18:30:58 timeless; you begun to work with meego stuff yet? May 04 18:31:05 at work I mean May 04 18:32:31 hm, what is the correct way to put aliases in my .ashrc so that every time i start a term this file is read? May 04 18:34:30 Trizt: only if you count asking someone for a cname for mxr.meego.com using my work address 'work' May 04 18:34:42 or talking to the intel l10n lead May 04 18:35:00 so, anyone here w/ pr1.1.1 or older and mfe? May 04 18:35:11 * timeless_mbp really wants to know if these bugs are reproducible there May 04 18:35:52 timeless_mbp: yeah I've got that May 04 18:37:27 mikki-kun: i put aliases in .profile and they get loaded May 04 18:38:03 ahhhh, thanks :) May 04 18:38:09 microlith: did you see my instructions to konttori? can you try them? May 04 18:38:18 so i should rather use .profiles than .ashrc? May 04 18:38:20 let me scroll up an dtry May 04 18:38:23 thanks May 04 18:38:30 timeless_mbp; okey, thats progress at least :) yes, I do have 1.1.1 May 04 18:38:38 whats mfe? May 04 18:38:43 mail for exchange May 04 18:38:51 aka activesync May 04 18:38:53 aka ... May 04 18:39:18 no, nothing like that, we have thought of having such beast at work, but this far we have managed to avoid it May 04 18:39:22 nausea May 04 18:40:11 damn, I should take a nap before it's time to work May 04 18:40:31 hmm May 04 18:40:51 timeless_mbp: I ended up on agenda view May 04 18:46:20 http://blog.barisione.org/2010-05/gtk-surprises-on-maemo/ - nice read May 04 18:46:29 microlith: there are two distinct bugs May 04 18:46:35 the question is what do you see May 04 18:46:44 in the agenda one, you might end up w/ a blank view May 04 18:46:51 or at least no 'new event' button May 04 18:47:23 ~seen javispedro May 04 18:47:24 javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2h 19m 32s ago, saying: 'oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it.'. May 04 18:49:01 hrw, indeed May 04 18:49:54 lcuk: noted my comment there? May 04 18:50:39 timeless_mbp: the display rendered normally May 04 18:50:55 microlith: try the other problem May 04 18:50:59 it's more consistent May 04 18:51:06 * timeless_mbp will be back in 1-5 hours May 04 18:52:20 hrw have just a little faith, people are trying May 04 18:55:27 timeless_mbp: yes, an item marked as (synchronized) went (local) after swiping May 04 18:55:51 and reverted to (synchronized) after reopening the item May 04 18:56:19 actually, the first item you transition to is marked as (local) May 04 18:57:34 lcuk: users are trying to have a faith, yes. I forgot that such thing exists when it comes to maemo5 May 04 18:58:04 hrw: you never know what is going to happen ;) May 04 18:58:14 (and by this I actually mean you never know) May 04 18:59:28 barisione: sure, but as I said many times I lost any faith in nokia 'so called' developers teams knowledge May 04 18:59:54 barisione: the good thing is that at least contacts have some external people working on it. May 04 19:00:17 ya, we're not real developers... May 04 19:00:23 barisione: because calendar (which is internal written afaik) was designed and written by nokia 5110 user May 04 19:00:43 lpotter: I said nokia - you are trolltech first then nokia for me May 04 19:01:29 real developers develop for iphone May 04 19:01:31 * RST38h ducks May 04 19:01:59 nope. real developers develop for nphone May 04 19:04:28 besides, you should blame the engineers May 04 19:04:34 shouldn't that is May 04 19:04:51 rather designers + managers May 04 19:06:23 designers did disaster designs for some soft (calendar), quite good for other (contacts). then developers wrote something more or less conform to designs. then managers decide will it get released or not. and if then when May 04 19:07:27 * RST38h doubts these UI designs were ever tested on the real users May 04 19:07:31 I see you have been assimilted... May 04 19:07:38 as a user I can not change anything in that chain May 04 19:07:44 hrw - if you had the calendar are there any things from your list you would be able to have a go at curing? May 04 19:07:47 as a developer I also can not chane anything May 04 19:08:07 sure you can. bug reports do get listened to May 04 19:08:23 lcuk: I could at least go for my bug 6933 as it looks like <1h work May 04 19:08:24 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong May 04 19:09:05 * lcuk nods May 04 19:09:12 lpotter: please... wontfix, will be fixed in harmattan, moved into brainstorm - those are my favorite solutions used May 04 19:10:38 well.. some fixes might break compatibility May 04 19:11:55 I voted for many bugs which got me more or less irritated and those which got 'resolved' mostly did moved to trashcan^Wbrainstorm May 04 19:12:07 lpotter: such as bug 6933 May 04 19:14:17 bug 5294 is another example of terrible design. wontfix for fremantle is what I see it May 04 19:14:18 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5294 Support for modifying/deleting a single occurrence of repeating event May 04 19:18:16 hi May 04 19:18:42 is this the correct channel for questions related to qt maemo development? (nokia qt sdk) May 04 19:18:48 * alterego wonders why the simulator takes so much CPU power .. May 04 19:19:40 alterego, because the n900 is so awesome :D May 04 19:20:01 I currently try to make my first steps, and I wonder why an application in the simulator with a simple qmainwindow has a gray background. I thought it would be using hildon style already (and thus, be black) .. wrong assumption? May 04 19:20:27 Goliath23: #maemo-qt exists too May 04 19:20:42 hrw Goliath23 #qt-maemo May 04 19:20:57 ops, long time since last time I was there May 04 19:21:15 there is #maemo-devel too, although its quite quiet May 04 19:21:21 heh tis ok - how is your qt coding coming on? May 04 19:21:55 lcuk: mine? halted May 04 19:22:15 because of blockers? May 04 19:22:18 or no time? May 04 19:23:08 lcuk: no sense in writing software which is not available for users (aka 'I do not use extras-devel' people) May 04 19:23:26 lcuk: and after stopped I moved my time into other areas May 04 19:23:52 s/which is not/which can not be made/ May 04 19:24:38 reasonable enough May 04 19:24:56 Hi all, May 04 19:25:21 i need to add a program in my N900 menu May 04 19:25:31 i've created a .desktop file for hildon May 04 19:25:45 now there is the icon in the menu May 04 19:25:51 but i'm not able to start the program May 04 19:26:03 the program is a python game made with pygame May 04 19:26:15 does anyone know anything about using spinlocks? specifically why I can't find /usr/include/linux/spinlock.h and what the alternatives are I don't think building against all the kernel headers is the right solution? May 04 19:26:26 i've tried to use exec=/usr/bin/python /path/script.py May 04 19:26:48 and also to add #!/usr/bin/python in the .py script and then just give to exec the path of the script May 04 19:26:49 siman01: there's also semaphores and mutexes May 04 19:26:53 but still not working May 04 19:27:00 hrw: were you at fosdem? or was it another guy complaining a lot about the calendar? :) May 04 19:27:23 barisione: I was there and I always complain a lot about maemo5 calendar crapp May 04 19:27:24 Otacon22, Exec=python /path/file.py should be enough May 04 19:27:46 ok May 04 19:28:23 hrw: I wonder if we actually talked (outside of the pub on friday night, it was me, a nokian working on the browser, maybe you and another guy) May 04 19:28:39 barisione: if you want to hear more from me in person I will be at UDS-M next week May 04 19:28:44 barisione: that was me May 04 19:28:50 hrw: ah! :) May 04 19:28:57 the maemo world is small May 04 19:29:04 microlith: yes thank, I'm not familiar enough with the code I'm porting, the OSX port used spinlocks do you think it would be wise to look into using samaphores or mutexes instead, is there a reason for spinlocks being uncool May 04 19:29:10 barisione: I remember that someone had internal nokia build on n900 there May 04 19:29:35 barisione: and was talking bullshits about adding video calls and mms support in pr1.2 May 04 19:30:03 siman01: spinlocks have specific use cases for critical sections, mostly where speed is of concern May 04 19:30:29 hrw: define “talking bullshit” :) maybe he was saying something true and maybe not May 04 19:30:42 hey all May 04 19:31:23 MohammadAG_, it is not working here May 04 19:31:31 from terminal it starts May 04 19:31:40 but not with the launcher May 04 19:32:03 my n900 failed to boot 4 times in a row, then seemed to recover :\ May 04 19:32:59 Otacon22, does it need root privileges to launch? May 04 19:33:05 no May 04 19:34:37 for some reason my synergy build is working again... May 04 19:35:18 Otacon22, pastebin your .desktop file May 04 19:35:21 ok May 04 19:37:30 microlith: the code I'm wanting to port is here http://lxr.ingres.com/lxr/source/src/cl/hdr/hdr/csnormal.h#2583 I think I need to understand it better, thanks for your help. May 04 19:37:51 is maemo window manager opensourced? the thing that renders windows and allows to switch between them May 04 19:37:58 lcuk, http://pastebin.com/Vzf0EjMT May 04 19:38:21 iirc its matchbox May 04 19:38:24 MyDocs? May 04 19:38:28 for the icon i've used another one just for test May 04 19:38:40 yes May 04 19:38:47 i've said that is a my app May 04 19:38:57 move it out of MyDocs May 04 19:39:34 barisione: right May 04 19:39:46 melfar: mbwm2 was open last time when I looked at it May 04 19:40:15 melfar: but as this is maemo5 component it can have quite closed development May 04 19:41:42 MohammadAG, nothing changes May 04 19:42:18 melfar: you can check maemo.gitorius.org May 04 19:42:53 is it called hildon-desktop now? May 04 19:43:31 no, thats separate May 04 19:44:18 bye all May 04 19:44:32 libmatchbox2? May 04 19:44:39 thanks hrw May 04 19:46:41 hmm does kernel-power include a fbconsole or not? May 04 19:49:51 hmm. webmin for n900 would be awesome May 04 19:49:56 remotely turn on and off stuff May 04 19:50:22 which package is py_compilefiles in? May 04 20:07:23 * DocScrutinizer wonders if N900 has WOL :-P May 04 20:07:57 (just kidding, on "remotely turn on...") May 04 20:11:20 DocScrutinizer, it should be able to if you can connect an ethernet adapter and keep supplying data + 5V after shutting down May 04 20:12:17 hmm and what's with WLAN? May 04 20:13:20 same? May 04 20:17:34 interesting question May 04 20:18:20 but I guess you can't keep the WLAN chip powered while the main system is mostly shutdown May 04 20:19:19 remote wakeup is evil May 04 20:19:24 is there a list of support voip codecs by n900? I can only find this: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Mobile_Technologies/VoIP/Nokia_VoIP_Framework/VoIP_support_in_Nokia_devices.xhtml May 04 20:19:28 so it's probably academic effort to check if the WLAN chipset supports WOL, and if there's a IRQ line to wake the main system May 04 20:19:56 well - ... May 04 20:20:01 ...' May 04 20:20:23 I get ~150 hours or so waiting on wlan. May 04 20:20:34 That's not with the CPU all teh time in C4 May 04 20:20:59 opdf2: using wireshark you easily can catch a SDP package on call setup, and read out what's the set of codecs N900 SIP offers to the remote client May 04 20:21:00 hmm so nobody knows if the power kernel supports fbcon? May 04 20:21:01 so it should be possible to get >>150 hours with 'wake on lan' done in software May 04 20:21:22 ruskie: I don't think so May 04 20:21:23 DocScrutinizer: cool thanks May 04 20:21:33 hmm to bad May 04 20:21:44 opdf2: or you simply call twinklephone (linux SIP softphone) and cjeck in twinkle's logs May 04 20:21:49 I guess I'll stick with jebbas kernel then May 04 20:29:02 MohammadAG: ( if you can connect an ethernet ) perfectly feasible with USB hostmode May 04 20:29:25 MohammadAG: and applying VBUS would wake the device May 04 20:29:54 :-) May 04 20:30:14 DocScrutinizer, :) May 04 20:30:35 Can someone remind me where that nice kernel cross-ref of the n900 kernel is? May 04 20:33:15 SpeedEvil: if you find it, please add it to the wiki. I'm interested as well. For now I go with the very basic http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c stuff with its clickable names May 04 20:33:20 q May 04 20:33:28 http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html :) May 04 20:41:16 Ah - I think that's what I meant - sorry. May 04 20:53:03 DocScrutinizer: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=wake.*on.*lan®exp=on&find=%2Fkernel%2Fdrivers%2Fnet%2Fwireless%2Fwl12xx%2F&findi=&filter=^[^\0]*%24&hitlimit=&tree=fremantle oh well - I guess that would have made it too easy May 04 20:58:14 how playable is psx on n900 these days? May 04 20:58:19 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx/wl1251_acx.h#974 looks interesting - but it's another case of Oooh! Another standard to read. May 04 20:58:26 (to fully understand) May 04 21:07:30 * noobmonk3y prods lcuk - still got all your teeth? :P May 04 21:07:42 * noobmonk3y prods frals - hows the trout farm? :P May 04 21:07:56 meh .... must be time for bed :P May 04 21:07:58 bah May 04 21:08:09 bah bah ? bah humbug? May 04 21:08:09 was suppose to package 1.0.0 today and write a post about it May 04 21:08:14 awwwwwww May 04 21:08:16 missus had other plans May 04 21:08:16 :D May 04 21:08:20 lol May 04 21:08:33 not allways a bad thing :P May 04 21:08:43 mhm :) May 04 21:13:54 ADf May 04 21:14:26 f May 04 21:26:06 i'm trying to dump a listing of the indexed music on my n900, I'm assuming I need to use one of the tracker-* command line tools, but i'm having trouble figuring out which one should be used, and with what args. anyone familiar with trackerd? May 04 21:29:18 wirelessdreamer: tracker-files -m audio/mpeg gives me all .mp3 files May 04 21:29:32 maybe that can point you in right way May 04 21:31:01 pupnik: thanks, any idea if id3 info can also be returned? May 04 21:31:13 mainly artist and track title May 04 21:31:16 hi all iam now on pr1.2 and iam back to pr1.1 so the celluar data nt work so what ican do ? May 04 21:36:22 nite all, sweet dreams May 04 21:36:43 no idea wirelessdreamer - i just hit tracker-[tab] and read the info May 04 21:37:43 wirelessdreamer, yes, you can get metadata from tracker May 04 21:37:48 how... i have no idea May 04 21:37:56 but it is possible May 04 22:01:12 * SpeedEvil ponders the ultimate cheap-food app. May 04 22:01:22 Track what you've got in your cupboards. May 04 22:01:34 Watch supermarket sites for special offers. May 04 22:01:53 * DocScrutinizer rotfls at MAK May 04 22:02:07 Look at online recipie sites, and work out the highest rated recipies you can make with stuff you've got. May 04 22:02:40 SpeedEvil: still following you diet plan? May 04 22:03:52 yes May 04 22:04:06 90% of the way there. May 04 22:04:26 http://qkwv.com/weight.gif May 04 22:04:28 :) May 04 22:13:09 n900 on newegg front page. plz buy me lol May 04 22:23:48 VertSMS in -devel May 04 22:25:29 fMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/ May 04 22:25:55 cool May 04 22:26:09 RT: fMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/ May 04 22:26:33 RT: RT: fMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/ May 04 22:27:00 frals, heading to extras? :D May 04 22:27:29 Just checked twitter, guess so :) May 04 22:27:30 -testing May 04 22:30:41 is it possible for a script to pick up when the active profile has changed? May 04 22:31:25 i want a way of setting my IMs to AFK when on silent. May 04 22:31:46 wouldn't it be better as a daemon? May 04 22:32:34 maybe, depends if a script is already run on a profile switch May 04 22:33:37 dbusinterface at /com/nokia/profiled seems to be active during profile switch May 04 22:33:51 introspecting that might give you an idea of what to do May 04 22:34:34 cool, cheers :) May 04 22:53:57 frals: ty May 04 23:06:31 re May 04 23:20:05 hmm May 04 23:20:21 hit the promote button 5mins ago, wonder when its gonna stop loading the page May 04 23:21:03 Package has been promoted. Go back to the package instance page. \o/ May 04 23:22:24 * SpeedEvil is somewhat excited. May 04 23:22:42 * SpeedEvil would be more excited if he'd ever had occasion to send a mms. :) May 04 23:22:51 So - what's next? fvideocall? May 04 23:23:09 congrats! May 04 23:23:38 :D May 04 23:23:42 Can it break down, and tell you how many total downloads you've had? May 04 23:23:56 pupnik: ? May 04 23:24:10 last count i did which was 2 days ago i think i had 170k downloads from -devel May 04 23:24:33 So - divide by 83 versions, and ? May 04 23:24:44 or are those seperate? May 04 23:25:15 its total over all versions May 04 23:26:06 Still awesome :) May 04 23:26:19 So - what's next? fvideocall? May 04 23:26:20 I imagine that most people don't update that regularly :) May 04 23:26:24 Yay thanks frals ! May 04 23:26:24 im happy, seems there are a few people benefiting from the application at least :) May 04 23:26:45 frals: Indeed, and if all of them bought you a beer, you'd drown! May 04 23:27:02 id be dead but it be a good way to go out! May 04 23:27:43 frals, you did promote both archs right? :) May 04 23:27:51 negative May 04 23:28:00 then do it May 04 23:28:00 do i need to do that? May 04 23:28:06 well I had to May 04 23:28:27 might as well then May 04 23:29:03 need to repackage sharing-fmms and make it lib/ or whatever instead of user/ tomorrow ;( May 04 23:30:14 why tomorrow? May 04 23:30:26 because its 0130 and i need to be at uni tomorrow :p May 04 23:30:31 The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: May 04 23:30:31 rootsh May 04 23:30:31 huh May 04 23:31:03 frals, lib/what? May 04 23:31:11 how complicated would it be to make a widget for customizable internet searches (consisting of a textbox and a drop-down selector for the search engine)? May 04 23:31:22 Noma: Isn't there one? May 04 23:31:29 lib/whatever, dunno what section it should be but anything but under user ;P May 04 23:31:31 Noma: I've got one on my desk May 04 23:31:33 Noma: oh May 04 23:31:34 :o May 04 23:31:42 name? May 04 23:31:46 Noma: it's not selectable is it - it just is configurable to oen May 04 23:32:32 maybe i need to contact the developer if he could add that feature, i have like ten different search engines i'd like to use May 04 23:32:38 ah May 04 23:32:40 touchsearch May 04 23:33:06 I haven't relaly investigated if it can do what you want May 04 23:33:21 i'll try May 04 23:35:31 actually it does just what i needed May 04 23:35:34 ty :) May 04 23:35:43 :) May 04 23:36:58 all it needs now is automatic import from my desktop pc's google chrome...:p May 04 23:45:35 Oooh - shiny. Bootchart in busybox May 04 23:45:37 http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-May/072365.html May 04 23:57:56 SpeedEvil: oooh May 05 00:02:15 bah i should really go to bed now May 05 00:02:34 but out of 8 replies 4 are because they refuse to actually read the first fucking post in my new thread May 05 00:03:04 niht all May 05 00:03:05 night May 05 00:03:10 nn SpeedEvil May 05 00:03:31 night SpeedEvil May 05 00:03:49 frals, sucker May 05 00:04:08 frals, request that your old thread gets closed :) May 05 00:04:09 frals, why would anybody read anything on Talk? :P May 05 00:04:37 slightly offtopic, but does anyone know if it's possible to make a web form send its information forward as iso-8859-1, even though its input is utf-8 from the user? May 05 00:04:42 GAN900, cause there's still hope with users like frals on it :P May 05 00:05:08 Noma: "yes" May 05 00:05:16 note that your question is poorly phrased May 05 00:05:18 input is unicode May 05 00:05:37 utf-8 is merely the default encoding provided at submission time May 05 00:05:43 dom is typically utf16 May 05 00:06:14 how do i do it then? is it like some simple javascript thing or? May 05 00:06:30 it's 3am May 05 00:06:35 ask google, or offer a consulting fee May 05 00:07:04 * timeless_mbp goes back to fighting apt May 05 00:07:15 i thought somebody could've helped me for free if it was really simple thing to do :p May 05 00:07:37 ask google, or offer a consulting fee LOL May 05 00:08:55 MohammadAG_: yeah i reported it when i posted the new one May 05 00:09:37 Noma: that's under "ask google" May 05 00:09:47 ~seen javispedro May 05 00:09:49 javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7h 41m 56s ago, saying: 'oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it.'. May 05 00:10:07 i've been asking google for a moment now but haven't come up with a solution May 05 00:15:02 jeeeez, tmo (the server) sucks May 05 00:15:33 2 out of 3 HTTP requests get dropped or timeout May 05 00:16:05 * DocScrutinizer suspects DoS May 05 00:16:40 DDoS by massive multiple biological entities May 05 00:17:09 s/entities/stupid entities/ May 05 00:17:10 DocScrutinizer meant: DDoS by massive multiple biological stupid entities May 05 00:25:07 can someone tell me what /proc/sys/kernel/version is in pr1.1.1 May 05 00:27:07 #1 PEREMPT Tue Apr 12 10:48:47 EEST 2010 May 05 00:27:28 eh? May 05 00:27:30 oops, that's Apr 13* May 05 00:27:32 in 1.1.1? May 05 00:27:44 is it really 2010? May 05 00:27:48 that seems highly suspicious May 05 00:27:55 idk, is 1.1.1 the latest? May 05 00:28:01 or he uses bootmenu? May 05 00:28:29 ok, scratch using the kernel as a determinant May 05 00:28:35 how do i recognize pr1.1.1? May 05 00:28:39 hmm May 05 00:28:45 use tablet-browser-ui :P May 05 00:28:49 thanks May 05 00:28:56 i think i'll go back to using libhildon1 May 05 00:29:04 timeless, May 05 00:29:06 :/ May 05 00:29:15 timeless_mbp, dpkg -l mp-fremantle-* May 05 00:29:22 people delete that May 05 00:29:28 their problem May 05 00:29:29 and it various regionally and operatorwise May 05 00:29:31 Nokia-N900-02-8:~# cat /proc/sys/kernel/version May 05 00:29:32 #1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 May 05 00:29:34 N May 05 00:29:39 -N May 05 00:29:50 hmm May 05 00:29:53 your's is old May 05 00:29:55 hmm indeed May 05 00:30:01 DocScrutinizer: thanks, but tripzero has proven i can't use it May 05 00:30:03 tripzero, any chance your device is a UK one? May 05 00:30:09 nope. May 05 00:30:20 i do have the extras-devel repo added though May 05 00:30:21 timeless_mbp, it's 3.2010* for all devices May 05 00:30:24 and all variants May 05 00:30:32 and i'm not sure if this is a default kernel May 05 00:30:47 * tripzero installed kernel-flasher-maemo and doesn't know if it really does anything May 05 00:30:53 and is too lazy to check May 05 00:30:55 timeless_mbp, what does the package change anyways? May 05 00:31:00 which? May 05 00:31:06 the one you're making May 05 00:31:08 mine replaces all localization strings for a locale May 05 00:31:18 and it needs to know if you have pr1.1.1- or pr1.2_ May 05 00:31:20 why replaces? May 05 00:31:23 because some idiots broke the abi May 05 00:31:28 abi? May 05 00:31:29 MohammadAG_: because the alternatives are disasters May 05 00:31:31 darn, yeah. Dec 17 2009? WTF? May 05 00:31:47 timeless_mbp, just add_remove_language May 05 00:31:49 MohammadAG_: printf(FOO, 5) May 05 00:31:56 MohammadAG_: i'm replacing enus or engb May 05 00:31:59 not adding a language May 05 00:32:06 but.. why May 05 00:32:07 the language exists, it just hapens to suck May 05 00:32:11 lol May 05 00:32:14 because it happens to suck *a lot* May 05 00:32:49 hmm May 05 00:32:55 anyway May 05 00:33:00 can we not discuss this? May 05 00:33:07 i've spent >3 years dealing w/ that part May 05 00:33:19 was gonna say echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION May 05 00:33:46 but I think that depends on mp-fremantle-generic-pr May 05 00:33:54 heh May 05 00:33:58 s/generic/* May 05 00:33:58 good morning May 05 00:34:01 morning May 05 00:35:07 MohammadAG_: can you verify that? May 05 00:35:08 FFS, now that would explain A LOT, if they replaced the rootfs/kernel by a new rootfs but fsckng old kernel May 05 00:35:40 btrfs ftw May 05 00:35:47 Nokia-N900:~# dpkg -r mp-fremantle-generic-pr May 05 00:35:47 (Reading database ... 47856 files and directories currently installed.) May 05 00:35:47 Removing mp-fremantle-generic-pr ... May 05 00:35:47 Nokia-N900:~# May 05 00:36:08 rebooting May 05 00:36:12 * timeless_mbp busy-waits May 05 00:36:43 What is the theory being tested? :P May 05 00:37:14 how do i recognize pr1.1.1? May 05 00:37:24 that's the problem statement May 05 00:37:35 hmm May 05 00:37:40 MohammadAG_'s theory is that mp-fremantle-*-* controls $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION May 05 00:37:50 I think my theory sucks May 05 00:37:59 define sucks? :) May 05 00:38:16 it showed the version after removing it May 05 00:38:20 sec, removed /tmp/* May 05 00:38:29 Nokia-N900:~# rm /tmp/.opi.tmp <--- that May 05 00:39:03 find / -xdev|xargs -n 10 grep -l $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION May 05 00:39:05 ? :) May 05 00:39:10 huh? lol May 05 00:39:13 just echo it May 05 00:39:21 echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION May 05 00:39:29 i'm not trying to echo it May 05 00:39:36 i'm trying to find which files have it :) May 05 00:40:11 No route to host <-- hate it when it takes ages to initialize ssh and connect to a network May 05 00:40:25 some native english people here ? :) May 05 00:40:30 yes May 05 00:40:38 well, native speakers May 05 00:40:51 timeless_mbp, it seems to be working, remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr on your device and clear /tmp to check May 05 00:40:58 is it: project follow-up for the building of a new room May 05 00:41:08 or: project follow-up for the build of a new room May 05 00:41:13 Nokia-N900:~# echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION May 05 00:41:13 3.2010.02-8 May 05 00:42:04 MohammadAG_: uname -a ? May 05 00:42:20 DocScrutinizer, doesn't show version May 05 00:42:35 I know what it doesn't show May 05 00:42:47 uname -a is unreliable May 05 00:42:50 (mind you I did break mp-fremantle-generic-pr by installing 1.2 packages a long time ago) May 05 00:42:51 as someone else already showed May 05 00:43:00 Nokia-N900-02-8:~# uname -a May 05 00:43:01 Linux Nokia-N900-02-8 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 armv7l unknown May 05 00:43:05 :-o May 05 00:43:17 timeless_mbp: an idea? :) May 05 00:43:31 timeless_mbp, just break mp-fremantle to check, you can reinstall it later May 05 00:43:32 sorry, watching tv :) May 05 00:43:40 (yes it can be reinstalled_ May 05 00:43:46 the latter makes no sense May 05 00:43:47 s/_/) May 05 00:44:04 ok May 05 00:44:30 can somebody explain to me why I get that incredibly old kernel build date? May 05 00:44:52 Gh0sty: the first sentence isn't great May 05 00:45:09 DocScrutinizer, when was your last reflash? May 05 00:45:21 supposedly 2 weeks ago May 05 00:45:26 (though it really shouldn't matter) May 05 00:45:29 hmm May 05 00:45:40 so timeless_mbp did you break it? May 05 00:45:46 DocScrutinizer, maybe it's not old? May 05 00:45:52 I have a custom kernel so I can't check May 05 00:45:55 Gh0sty: what are you trying to say? May 05 00:46:13 Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 that actually sounds old to me May 05 00:46:39 DocScrutinizer: consider when pr1.1 and pr1.1.1 were shipped May 05 00:47:14 so that kernel build date is ok for 3.2010.02-8 ? May 05 00:47:25 it seems reasonable May 05 00:47:34 ok, nm. thanks May 05 00:47:51 just was baffled May 05 00:48:34 timeless_mbp, did you check or not lol May 05 00:49:19 has any third-party built a Maemo image for a Nokia 770 or n800? Is that possible? Useful? May 05 00:49:26 MohammadAG_: nah May 05 00:49:29 not worth it May 05 00:49:33 worth what? May 05 00:49:36 i have to decide if that variable is useful May 05 00:49:40 it is May 05 00:50:12 when you uninstall mp-fremantle-*-pr you only uninstall the metapackage May 05 00:50:32 an apt-get install mp-fremantle-*-pr should bring it back in 4 seconds May 05 00:51:18 not for me May 05 00:51:26 i'm not running 1.1.1 May 05 00:51:31 and only 1.1.1 is available May 05 00:51:40 so you're suggesting i tell my device to commit suicide May 05 00:53:46 if i was running 1.1.1, i could test this stuff myself ;-) May 05 00:54:28 what's the shell script friendly form of apt? May 05 00:55:27 timeless_mbp: updating my CV :) May 05 00:55:54 i'm not running 1.1.1 May 05 00:55:59 dpkg-repack? May 05 00:55:59 timeless_mbp: trying to say that i was doing the project follow-up while they were building a new dataroom in our building ... May 05 00:56:27 Gh0sty: are the two related? May 05 00:56:39 ? May 05 00:57:01 I am project-lead facilities May 05 00:57:05 let me put it that way :p May 05 00:59:17 BLAME Stskeeps :D May 05 01:00:08 * satmd blames luke-jr for not being superior ;P May 05 01:00:21 but I *am* superior... May 05 01:00:53 even bought a dirt cheap Samsung phone from Cricket for $30... May 05 01:00:55 :p May 05 01:05:20 oh, goodness. but what about the children?! May 05 01:05:51 ljp: what's that have to do with them? May 05 01:06:28 if you didn't buy it, eventuelly it'll end up in trash May 05 01:06:44 with children getting paid for collecting spare parts from it :o May 05 01:06:55 exposing them to dangerous material May 05 01:07:02 those poor children starving because you did not buy a nokia May 05 01:07:23 wtf May 05 01:07:39 if Nokia wants me to buy, they need to make a phone that meets my requirements :P May 05 01:08:02 luke-jr, I thought you were planning to upgrade to the n900? :P May 05 01:08:12 Termana: nope, never was May 05 01:08:15 probably never will May 05 01:08:30 honestly, it looks like N900 would be a downgrade May 05 01:08:38 except for RAM May 05 01:08:51 downgrade from what? May 05 01:08:53 and even then N900 doesn't really have enough May 05 01:08:55 N810 May 05 01:08:57 but... but.............................................. PR1.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!oneoneone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111two May 05 01:09:03 :P May 05 01:09:11 luke-jr: aside from the outright better processor? May 05 01:09:16 microlith: only slightly better May 05 01:09:20 600 MHz vs 400 isn't much May 05 01:09:37 even though the architecture is different? May 05 01:09:42 now if it was one of those dual core Snapdragons, maybe... May 05 01:09:46 luke-jr: yeah, n900 has only better cpu, more ram, better battery life and an included 3g modem May 05 01:09:52 (than the n800) May 05 01:09:56 microlith: shrug. never waiting on CPU for N810 AFAIK May 05 01:10:04 arachnist: useless 3G modem May 05 01:10:09 heh May 05 01:10:13 the 600MHz in n900 is more like 1200 n810-MHz ;) May 05 01:10:17 luke-jr: why useless? May 05 01:10:22 luke-jr, The difference between OMAP2 and OMAP3 is more than just clock speed May 05 01:10:26 "useless" he says, as he wanders away from the access point and loses internet access May 05 01:10:27 arachnist: 3G service in the USA is crazy expensive May 05 01:10:52 in any case, the display size change is a big difference May 05 01:11:11 yes, that's the biggest downside to n900 May 05 01:11:15 it's too small May 05 01:11:23 yes! May 05 01:11:36 N900 vs N810, I'd list size as #1 problem; then price maybe May 05 01:11:37 enough small phones, give me a htc universal sized beast May 05 01:11:52 If you can make do with the slower cpu and smaller ram, and don't want cellular, stick with n810 May 05 01:12:02 ShadowJK: o/ May 05 01:12:05 ShadowJK: I'd love cellular... but CDMA May 05 01:12:33 mm, vendor-lock May 05 01:12:37 actually, my ideal would be a device with a software-defined radio capable of CDMA/GSM/3G/iDEN/etc May 05 01:12:39 :) May 05 01:12:41 luke-jr, no love for Android devices I suspect? :P May 05 01:12:48 haltdef_: then get an iPad 3g. thats a huge iPhone May 05 01:12:48 Termana: heck no :P May 05 01:12:54 no. May 05 01:13:07 luke-jr, You could put Gentoo on them though! :P May 05 01:13:14 Termana: could I? maybe then May 05 01:13:17 iPad 3g doesn't support voice calls (yet, I suspect someone will hack it eventually.) May 05 01:13:27 nothing like usa, where each carrier has his own standards... May 05 01:13:55 anyhow, where I am, I can only see myself using CDMA right now May 05 01:14:02 china also has one standard per carrier, to stifle competition May 05 01:14:10 the rest of my family uses Sprint (CDMA), and Cricket (CDMA) is cheapest here May 05 01:14:12 communism at its best ;) May 05 01:14:49 and there's about as many CDMA carriers as 3G carriers, so... 3G is just as much vendor lockin :p May 05 01:14:59 well, no May 05 01:15:07 luke-jr: 3g is more wideworld spread May 05 01:15:15 CDMA you can't buy a phone from the vnedor and use it May 05 01:15:24 you have to buy it from the carrier May 05 01:15:27 (ie: it's available here in europe) May 05 01:16:38 luke-jr, definitely you could put Gentoo on most Android phones. Nexus One already has Debian and Gentoo running on it, then there will be my MeeGo port. Nexus One is unsuitable for you though, because of a) GSM and b) no keyboard - but you could do the same I'm sure with the Droid May 05 01:17:24 arachnist: well, that hardly matters when I'm locked to one State May 05 01:17:55 microlith: do you? pretty sure if it's unlocked you can just call carrier to activate it May 05 01:18:20 Termana: Droid also has problems for me :) May 05 01:18:33 Termana: does Android's kernel actually work with standard *nix userland, though? May 05 01:18:36 luke-jr: a) good luck finding unlocked CDMA phones and b) good luck getting Sprint/Verizon to OK it. May 05 01:18:41 luke-jr, yes May 05 01:18:53 microlith: you forget /Cricket :p May 05 01:19:03 whoever May 05 01:19:14 assuming they even run their own network May 05 01:19:26 microlith: Cricket has shops around town that will reflash another carrier's phone. ;P May 05 01:19:35 * microlith questions that May 05 01:20:33 fine, I'll get their site... May 05 01:22:07 http://thespotomaha.com/flashing.html May 05 01:22:24 Termana: is it possible to get glibc (not replacing their bastardized libc that doesn't even support .so's) + normal ELF executables on android? May 05 01:22:25 "Come to The Spot today to have your old Sprint, Alltel, or even Verizon phone flashed over to the Cricket Network." May 05 01:22:34 that's not /Cricket/ May 05 01:22:51 arachnist: IIRC you can chroot to a normal Debian filesystem from Android at least May 05 01:22:59 microlith: it's a Cricket Authorized Dealer May 05 01:23:08 sure, that means they can sell service May 05 01:23:20 and activate phones on the network May 05 01:23:22 it also means Cricket accepts the phones they flash :P May 05 01:23:45 arachnist, not directly in Android no. But things like busybox have been compiled for Android, so yes I assume normal executables can be made. May 05 01:23:53 but still you're left with the fact that you have to pay or beg the carrier to let your device on May 05 01:24:04 microlith: uh, no May 05 01:24:09 and hope you have the option to pay at all May 05 01:24:10 you just activate it on Cricket's network May 05 01:24:22 arachnist, and then as luke-jr says you can chroot into Debian, or if you don't want to use Android at all, just boot up into Debian and forget about Android May 05 01:24:26 the flashing is obviously undoing a carrier lock May 05 01:25:38 it's still not as clean as buying an unlocked GSM phone and putting your SIM in it May 05 01:26:21 yeah, the hotpluggability of SIM cards is nice, but a different issue entirely May 05 01:26:26 luke-jr: not really, you can't easily register that phone with another carrier May 05 01:26:35 and SIM cards are not necessarily 3G or even GSM May 05 01:26:44 iDEN uses SIM cards too May 05 01:26:51 and China has a SIM-card-like thing for CDMA May 05 01:26:56 iDEN is also a minority technology May 05 01:27:07 and china is, well, china May 05 01:27:12 microlith: it is still cheaper than GSM :) May 05 01:27:38 if I wanted data on my new plan, I'd have gone with Boost Mobile (iDEN) May 05 01:28:04 It should be mentioned technically 3G is CDMA May 05 01:28:25 ! May 05 01:28:39 you mean the term "3G" or the actual 3G tech? May 05 01:28:48 luke-jr, the tech behind 3G May 05 01:29:02 look up UMTS and WCDMA May 05 01:29:19 Termana: umts and wcmda aren't the only 3g techs May 05 01:29:59 fwiw, i was looking for dpkg-query :) May 05 01:30:28 timeless_mbp: yeah, that's what I told you.. May 05 01:30:45 asjWrk, right, but I think its the most used one. I might be wrong on that though May 05 01:31:13 Termana: verizon and what ever it's called in the US would disagree ;) May 05 01:31:13 luke-jr: oops, sorry, i must have missed that May 05 01:32:32 asjWrk, right they are EV-DO (?), but AT&T and T-Mobile would be UMTS/WCDMA (?) May 05 01:32:44 * MohammadAG_ smacks forehead so heard it redefines a facepalm http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51899 May 05 01:32:48 hard* May 05 01:33:23 Termana: sadly TMO isnt umts, it's something special, which the n900 supports, AWS or what ever it's called May 05 01:34:05 Termana: AT&T is UMTS/HSDPA on 850/1900 T-Mobile on rest of the world normality freqs May 05 01:34:26 njsf_: no :) May 05 01:34:36 Right, different frequencies, but its still UMTS isn't it May 05 01:34:47 plus, Telstra in Australia are 850 :P May 05 01:35:11 Termana: there's a lot of 850 popping up, 3 or 4 countries now we last counted here May 05 01:35:39 "3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+) service by T-Mobile exclusively uses the AWS 1700/2100 MHz frequency-band" - from wikipedia May 05 01:35:51 Which confirms my statement, T-Mobile is still UMTS May 05 01:36:17 Termana: ah ok. anyone else in the world doing 1700/2100? (it's not the same 2100 as the rest of the world) May 05 01:36:37 can someone do this for me: May 05 01:36:49 well except for crappy reception caused by my workplace (there is some RF shielding as it is an old IBM building) I am happy with T-Mobile service in the Westchester, NY area May 05 01:36:53 dpkg-query -f '${Version}\n' -W libhildon1 May 05 01:36:58 I don't know about 1700, but we have a heap of carriers in Australia doing 900/2100 May 05 01:37:15 I quite frequently get HSDPA+ "3.5G" connectivity May 05 01:38:33 HSDPA is technically still WCDMA/UMTS underneath as well AFAIK, its just an added layer May 05 01:40:40 Termana: should use the HSPA these days to include HSUPA May 05 01:46:48 * njsf_ *shighs* as he just wished everywhere carriers/governments would just agree on a cell standard May 05 01:48:17 njsf: about 9' by 12' May 05 01:48:45 timeless_mbp: 2.2.3-1+0m5 May 05 01:51:03 timeless_mbp: ?! May 05 01:51:35 timeless_mbp: ohhhh got the joke May 05 01:51:50 I really would not know about cell dimensions really May 05 01:52:03 9'x12' is not bad by NYC standards either :D May 05 01:53:24 Termana: HSPA is to UMTS what EDGE is to GPRS May 05 01:58:17 DocScrutinizer51, right, so just an extension of the standard, correct? May 05 01:58:40 basically yes May 05 02:08:04 Gnite #maemo May 05 02:09:59 * njsf_ wants to hide and not have to understand acronyms :D May 05 02:17:34 njsf_: there's ~wtf May 05 02:17:46 comes really handy sometimes May 05 02:18:11 DocScrutinizer: ohh now you are talking about home :D May 05 02:18:41 yeah, you'll find wtf on your shell as well :-P May 05 02:19:39 well bash is my friend, busybox not so much May 05 02:19:43 see 'man wtf' May 05 02:20:03 nah, not on friggin messybox May 05 02:20:14 on a *real* linux ;-P May 05 02:20:35 ~wtf wtf May 05 02:20:37 WTF: {what,where,who,why} the fuck May 05 02:20:52 DocScrutinizer: there is no real linux, kernel has no man page May 05 02:21:08 lol May 05 02:21:59 ~wtf tla May 05 02:22:01 TLA: three letter acronym May 05 02:22:08 ~wtf etla May 05 02:22:09 ETLA: extended three letter acronym May 05 02:22:53 IATTTGO May 05 02:23:02 i am too tired to go on May 05 02:23:17 hmmm May 05 02:23:28 ~wtf IATTTGO May 05 02:23:30 Gee... I don't know what IATTTGO means... May 05 02:23:38 * njsf_ has had too much red wine tonight to carry an intelligent conversation :) May 05 02:24:18 I just made that one up May 05 02:24:32 ~wtf satmd May 05 02:24:34 Gee... I don't know what satmd means... May 05 02:24:38 haha. May 05 02:27:04 I like Satellite Doctors! May 05 02:27:43 I see what you did there, hacking the satellite :p May 05 02:27:54 * Trizt thinks it's time to go and sleep, just two hours until time to get up May 05 02:28:04 same for me May 05 02:28:10 ~wtf eeprom May 05 02:28:12 Gee... I don't know what eeprom means... May 05 02:28:17 oO May 05 02:28:21 ~wtf -t comp eeprom May 05 02:28:22 usage: wtf . May 05 02:28:36 hehe I am just drunk eventually I will fall asleep :D May 05 02:28:45 lucky you May 05 02:29:18 Trizt: tell it to my liver in 10 yrs time :D May 05 02:29:32 jr@halley:~/Documents/N900/i2c-tools-3.0.2> wtf -t comp eeprom May 05 02:29:34 EEPROM: electrically erasable programmable read only memory May 05 02:29:43 njsf_; in ten years time they will make you a new one May 05 02:30:11 a wild satmd disappears May 05 02:30:11 off to bed with me May 05 02:30:14 night folks May 05 02:30:33 Trizt: from your mouth to (God's hear|HMO approval office) May 05 02:30:48 night n8 all May 05 02:34:25 * DocScrutinizer is tempted to stay awake, as 1h after falling asleep the tooth starts to kill. And today no more painkillers May 05 02:42:13 DocScrutinizer: call the police to arrest the tooth and have a nice restful night ! :D May 05 02:45:05 I'm sure it would take me less than 20sec to make them joyfully help me by extracting a number of teeth. I'm just not convinced they'll get the right one May 05 02:46:14 DocScrutinizer51: Well the health plan insurance company will extract the right amount of copay and premium :D May 05 02:46:41 * njsf_ is in a cynical mood and apologizes to anyone offended May 05 02:47:23 i am offended May 05 02:47:57 * wall[e] doesn't like missing parameter. May 05 02:50:00 wall[e]: 42 is your missing parameter May 05 02:50:34 and life and universe and girlfriend. May 05 02:53:48 or wife :O) May 05 02:54:16 :) May 05 02:54:38 but hey... I was not drunk sleeping covered by a news paper in a public park May 05 02:55:00 * njsf_ wonders how many H2G2 fans will get that :D May 05 02:55:31 not me! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 05 02:59:56 2010