**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 05 02:59:56 2010
May 05 03:01:56 <njsf_>  wall[e]: you need to read the H2G2 ultimate foreword by the author then :D
May 05 03:02:16 <wall[e]> Thanks! :)
May 05 03:02:16 <njsf_> basically D.A. states that was when the idea of H2G2 came to hime
May 05 03:02:18 <njsf_> him
May 05 03:02:35 <wall[e]> ah
May 05 03:02:37 <njsf_> when the Europe on $5 a day was too expensive for him
May 05 03:03:36 <njsf_> and he found himself drunk on a public park (can't remember where) and the local hobo stole the newspapers covering him for the night without any cerimony
May 05 03:04:39 <wall[e]> interesting, will look for time
May 05 03:04:45 <wall[e]> didn't get a life since i got n900
May 05 03:04:56 <asjWrk> wall[e]: you had one before? ;)
May 05 03:05:08 <wall[e]> lol sure
May 05 03:05:14 * njsf_ lusts for a don't panic animation on boot 
May 05 03:05:28 <wall[e]> was an artist, now hacking stuffs
May 05 03:06:04 <wall[e]> and now creativetone will make me get back to my carrier
May 05 03:06:12 <wall[e]> install mypaint woohoo
May 05 03:12:59 <njsf_> wall[e]: I am shure Thailand has plenty of life to offer ;)
May 05 03:13:29 <wall[e]> :D
May 05 03:13:41 <wall[e]> give us a visit!
May 05 03:14:46 <njsf_> wall[e]: maybe sometime. I'd love to, but I can't see the wheels of fortune aligning that way
May 05 03:15:07 <wall[e]> hehe
May 05 03:15:50 <wall[e]> waiting for pr1.2 is like wondering if my gf will let me get laid tonight or not
May 05 03:16:28 <Termana> Not likely to happen?
May 05 03:16:43 <wall[e]> better go working on graphics magick
May 05 03:16:45 <asjWrk> wall[e]: who does she normally let you get laid with?
May 05 03:16:58 <wall[e]> i want to write a uis for assembling tool chain
May 05 03:17:03 <wall[e]> over gm
May 05 03:17:07 <wall[e]> and may be anything else
May 05 03:17:24 <njsf_> wall[e]: better not make that kind of correlation.
May 05 03:17:30 <wall[e]> asjWrk, herself!
May 05 03:17:46 <wall[e]> indeed!
May 05 03:18:37 <wall[e]> i wish gnustep is ported :S
May 05 03:18:46 <wall[e]> so i don't need to port it myself
May 05 03:20:06 * njsf_ is so pissed at Apple antics that is getting antagonistic at anything Objective-C or *Step ;)
May 05 03:20:23 <wall[e]> haha
May 05 03:21:30 <wall[e]> better bring it out of their control then!
May 05 03:23:05 <njsf_> why bother about it ? just make a decent alternative, hence much of the "though love" towards maemo/meego
May 05 03:23:13 <wall[e]> consider working on opengl es for gnustep
May 05 03:23:22 <wall[e]> backend
May 05 03:23:43 <njsf_> wall[e]: basics first
May 05 03:23:46 <wall[e]> well, i can't live without dynamic desig pattern
May 05 03:23:57 <njsf_> flawless audio, and good comms
May 05 03:23:57 <wall[e]> yeh
May 05 03:24:06 <njsf_> _then_ eye candy
May 05 03:24:19 <wall[e]> fast application dev ftw
May 05 03:24:51 * wall[e] checks if anyone port squeak
May 05 03:25:08 <wall[e]> yes cool
May 05 03:25:34 <wall[e]> njsf, I don't have much experience in those fields
May 05 03:25:38 <njsf_> wall[e]: as much I love smalltalk, ARM embedded devices are not ready yet to handle it
May 05 03:25:49 <wall[e]> too bad :/
May 05 03:26:03 <wall[e]> well, the same reason when i picked objc
May 05 03:26:38 <njsf_> wall[e]: indeed obj-c dispatch resembles a lot smalltalk
May 05 03:26:47 <wall[e]> yeh
May 05 03:27:14 <wall[e]> also perfect fit to use existing c based frameowrk
May 05 03:27:19 <njsf_> it is a nice system, but as I stated I am antagonistic on political reasons not technical
May 05 03:27:28 <wall[e]> hehe
May 05 03:27:35 <wall[e]> nah, apple didn't invent objective-c
May 05 03:27:38 <wall[e]> neither step
May 05 03:27:41 <njsf_> it is almost like the mono debate for me with gnustep
May 05 03:27:44 <wall[e]> but the evil one invented it
May 05 03:27:53 <wall[e]> at nextstep
May 05 03:28:03 <njsf_> wall[e]: NextStep engineers did, and Jobs took it to apple
May 05 03:28:05 <wall[e]> (objc isn't, just step)
May 05 03:28:14 <wall[e]> yeh
May 05 03:28:33 <njsf_> well the _base class_ is NS_Object for a reason :P
May 05 03:28:35 <wall[e]> there used to be time I didn't use foundataion framework just objc
May 05 03:28:51 <wall[e]> I thought it stands for NameSpace
May 05 03:28:55 * wall[e] is innocent
May 05 03:29:11 <njsf_> nope, it stands for NextStep
May 05 03:29:17 <wall[e]> yeh, just kidding
May 05 03:29:25 <wall[e]> it was NX though
May 05 03:29:36 <wall[e]> then NS
May 05 03:30:28 <njsf_> no, but I could check with a college friend that had early access
May 05 03:30:37 <njsf_> I am 99.9999% sure :D
May 05 03:30:55 <wall[e]> NS = Nextstep yes
May 05 03:31:15 <wall[e]> just once, before foundation and appkit, there were NSClasses
May 05 03:31:20 <wall[e]> er NXClasses
May 05 03:31:45 <wall[e]> look for NXConstantString
May 05 03:32:36 <njsf_> hmmm where should I look :D ?
May 05 03:33:00 <wall[e]> I've heard that NS = NeXT + Sun though, but I don't think that's right.
May 05 03:33:11 <wall[e]> njsf, google! :)
May 05 03:33:35 <wall[e]> before NeXT and Sun made openstep, it was NX
May 05 03:33:52 <wall[e]> so somebody tends to think that NS = NX + Sun
May 05 03:34:12 <wall[e]> but i think they want to mean it for NameSpace
May 05 03:34:41 <arachnist> maybe they ment "NovellSucks"? ;)
May 05 03:34:47 <wall[e]> lmao
May 05 03:34:53 <njsf_> wall[e]: Somehow I don't think NS = NeXT + Sun
May 05 03:35:01 <wall[e]> neither do i
May 05 03:35:07 <wall[e]> but they renamed it from NX at some point
May 05 03:35:07 <njsf_> Sun was heavy into PostScript display
May 05 03:35:15 <wall[e]> news?
May 05 03:35:21 <njsf_> kinda like Apple is into PDF based display
May 05 03:35:21 <wall[e]> ah that was gosling
May 05 03:35:30 <wall[e]> yeh DPS
May 05 03:35:39 <wall[e]> was hacking that for a while
May 05 03:36:00 <wall[e]> then goes cairo
May 05 03:36:11 <njsf_> woahhh there
May 05 03:36:14 <arachnist> cairo is slow :/
May 05 03:36:16 <njsf_> that is like a decade jump
May 05 03:36:27 <wall[e]> can wait
May 05 03:36:43 <wall[e]> may be some e folks can help but they don't tesselate beziers
May 05 03:37:00 <wall[e]> or that was old fact?
May 05 03:37:07 <wall[e]> didn't follow e dev for quite some times
May 05 03:37:13 * njsf_ is starting to feel the effect of 1.5L of red wine :D
May 05 03:37:16 <wall[e]> at least raster's here.
May 05 03:37:34 <wall[e]> sorry if i gave you a bell
May 05 03:37:42 <wall[e]> haha
May 05 03:38:03 <wall[e]> too bad i didn't drink
May 05 03:38:27 <wall[e]> nothing left for me beside strip teasing girls in the heaven.
May 05 03:38:48 <njsf_> wall[e]: let me know when you can send some :D
May 05 03:38:57 <genewitch1> do you guys still help with my ancient n800 tablet? the rss feed reader decided it didn't want to read 8 out of 11 feeds, restarting, clearing image cache didn't do anything. it says "unable to refresh selected/some feeds, try again later"
May 05 03:38:58 <wall[e]> XD
May 05 03:39:26 <njsf_> genewitch1: I know some on the Maemo community use the 8x0 series
May 05 03:39:42 <njsf_> I personally only have n900, sorry
May 05 03:40:07 <genewitch1> yeah, I was being tongue in cheek :-)  all I use the n800 for is rss feeds and grand central dialing, and the occasional website. but it still uses a full battery charge each day.
May 05 03:40:29 <genewitch1> losing half the functionality is kind of a pain :-p
May 05 03:40:46 <ShadowJK> still on original battery?
May 05 03:41:09 <genewitch1> I have an original and one I bought
May 05 03:41:19 <genewitch1> if the radio is off I can use it for hours and hours
May 05 03:41:36 <genewitch1> but it goes about 12 with with radio on and light use
May 05 03:42:22 <genewitch1> I'm also booting from the internal SD slot rather than flash, if that matters at all
May 05 03:42:24 <ShadowJK> mine goes about 2 days with wifi on and an hour web browsing a day
May 05 03:42:40 <njsf_> genewitch1: what wifi class are we talking ? b or g?
May 05 03:42:50 <genewitch1> njsf_: g
May 05 03:43:44 <njsf_> same access point(s) all the time ?
May 05 03:43:46 <genewitch1> If I tell it to turn off the radio after X minutes I don't have to charge it often at all, but I like being able to touch the screen and have google voice place a call for me, or text without having to wait for the wifi to come up.
May 05 03:43:49 <genewitch1> njsf_: yes
May 05 03:43:56 <genewitch1> well, 99% of the time
May 05 03:44:16 <genewitch1> sometimes I take it out to SMS from a restaurant.
May 05 03:45:52 <njsf_> genewitch1: not knowledgeable enough, hopefully someone else can chime in
May 05 03:47:34 <genewitch1> the radio is on 10mW maximum power saving. I doubt any of this has to do with the feed reader. I guess I'll start searching the website for how to fix it. one thing I can do is restart on flash and see if the stock system is failing on RSS feeds as well.
May 05 03:50:27 <genewitch1> nope, the one on flash is not working either
May 05 03:50:43 <genewitch1> Evidently my router is being stupid. Oh well, thanks anyhow!
May 05 03:50:57 <ShadowJK> 10mW vs 100mW isn't a powersaving seting
May 05 03:51:05 <ShadowJK> the radiated power is marginal compared to total wifi usage
May 05 03:51:09 <genewitch1> ShadowJK: there's two dropdown menus
May 05 03:51:19 <genewitch1> one says maximum power saving the other says 10mW
May 05 03:52:16 <genewitch1> I get really good reception anywhere in my apartment so I think that's why I set it to 10mW
May 05 03:57:17 <wall[e]> need memory
May 05 04:19:55 <Termana> raster, ping
May 05 04:21:05 * raster has been summoned
May 05 04:21:30 * raster appears in a puff of magic purple smoke
May 05 04:21:38 <Termana> :P
May 05 04:22:00 <Termana> raster, I know you've done some work regarding OpenGL ES libs, so I was wondering if I could ask you a question about them
May 05 04:22:16 <raster> k
May 05 04:24:47 <Termana> raster, I'm looking to do a port of MeeGo to the Nexus One, and I assume that the Handset UX will be Open GL ES 2 based. Are GLES libs (libGLESv2_adreno200.so and libEGL_adreno200.so in this case) normally generic, or are they X11 or Android specific?
May 05 04:25:40 <raster> :-P android
May 05 04:25:52 <raster> i would say they will be useless to you
May 05 04:25:55 <raster> android specific
May 05 04:26:23 <raster> for meego u will need x11
May 05 04:26:23 <Termana> hmm thats a pain in the arse :P
May 05 04:26:31 <raster> and that means dir/drm
May 05 04:26:39 <raster> and x11 support
May 05 04:26:42 <raster> yes it is
May 05 04:26:47 <raster> android is a pain in the arse
May 05 04:27:37 <Termana> raster, Since the n900 and the Droid/Milestone use the same PowerVR, can the Droid PowerVR libs and driver be used on the n900? (This question is for NITdroid :P)
May 05 04:27:42 <raster> anroid is nothing like linux - it's a google world (well more specifically its an os started by a bunch of guys who left danger who did the sidekick and they got bought by google - they dont come form the linux world. they simply re-used a linux kernel because it saved them writing their own)
May 05 04:28:16 <raster> my guess is that you'd be able to use the same kernel drivers for 90% of things
May 05 04:28:26 <raster> of course baseband, wifi, etc. will vary - ie peripherals
May 05 04:28:32 <raster> but 3d is on-chip
May 05 04:28:51 <Termana> so 3D driver and libs would probably be interoperable between the n900 and Droid?
May 05 04:30:17 <Termana> raster, ^^
May 05 04:30:21 <raster> with the same xserver, same kernel - yes
May 05 04:30:29 <raster> same pretty much everything
May 05 04:30:45 <raster> 3d driver is dependant on kernel module parts
May 05 04:30:49 <raster> rememebr that
May 05 04:30:54 <raster> and for it to work with x11 - same
May 05 04:31:00 <raster> dependant on server bits
May 05 04:31:02 <raster> and vice-versa
May 05 04:31:31 <Termana> raster, right, but this time we are going the other way, Droid driver/lib onto the n900 for the NITdroid guys, so everything would be the same Android-wise
May 05 04:33:21 <Termana> raster, so theoretically as long as the NITdroid people use the same kernel module for the PowerVR they could use the Droid's libs to have working 3D?
May 05 04:33:21 <raster> ooh sorry
May 05 04:33:25 <raster> other way
May 05 04:33:29 <raster> ummm - i guess so.
May 05 04:33:43 <raster> i have no interest in helping android out :)
May 05 04:34:14 <Termana> raster, heh :P no problem, I just thought I'd ask for DJ_Steve's sake since he is doing the n900 Android port.
May 05 04:34:24 <Termana> raster, thanks as well :)
May 05 04:35:29 <raster> they can look after themselves
May 05 04:35:42 <raster> they have more devices out here now with android than linux
May 05 04:35:51 <raster> i dont see the point of porting to the n900
May 05 04:35:56 <raster> they have a droid
May 05 05:15:32 <luke-jr> Termana: Droid 3D libs are most likely non-redistributable
May 05 05:15:41 <luke-jr> so unless someone owns both N900 and Droid... :p
May 05 05:23:35 * RST38h yawns
May 05 05:26:03 <lcuk> mornin RST38h
May 05 05:28:14 <Termana> luke-jr, Yes, but you also can't use Google's apps without Google's approval. Do you think thats going to stop him? :P
May 05 05:31:53 <luke-jr> Termana: it should
May 05 05:33:11 <Termana> luke-jr, I'm not debating the merits of weather he should or should not do anything. I'm merely stating I don't think he is going to not allow the Google apps not to work. Lets face it, Android is bad as it is, take away Google's apps and what do you really have left?
May 05 05:34:17 <Termana> err, I think I make that sentence a bit confusing with the nots and don'ts etc. but you get the point of it :P
May 05 05:35:31 <Termana> made*
May 05 05:37:13 <swc|666> wtf is with my new n900 .. cant skype call and potr is broken in pidgin 0o
May 05 05:37:20 <swc|666> s/potr/otr/
May 05 05:37:22 <infobot> swc|666 meant: wtf is with my new n900 .. cant skype call and otr is broken in pidgin 0o
May 05 05:40:27 <viliny_> swc|666: leaked firmware?
May 05 05:42:55 <luke-jr> swc|666: Skype sucks; so does Pidgin
May 05 05:43:43 <pupnik_> n900 browser is so damn useful...
May 05 05:44:21 <lcuk> pupnik_, indeed it is
May 05 05:44:41 <lcuk> its answered many bedtime discussions without having to leave the bed
May 05 05:44:52 <lcuk> "the internet will know"
May 05 05:48:03 <swc|666> viliny_ not leaked.. official
May 05 05:48:46 <swc|666> luke-jr, pidgin isnt too bad for me .. when otr worked
May 05 05:49:03 <swc|666> no other viable client for my jabber server other than mcabber in a debian chroot
May 05 05:49:27 <luke-jr> Maemo5 doesn't have builtin XMPP?
May 05 05:50:19 <petteri> yes it has
May 05 05:51:08 <swc|666> yeah but no OTR plugin afaik
May 05 05:57:35 <swc|666> k i'm a fsckin tard on the skype issue .. .enable calling phones != checked :/
May 05 06:01:34 <pupnik> !seen puphome
May 05 06:19:48 <ColdFyre> um
May 05 06:20:29 <ColdFyre> so i moved /usr/share to /home/usr/share, and symlinked /usr/share to it, and noy my n900 is stuck in a reboot loop
May 05 06:22:01 <BusterB> whats the fastest method to reboot the n900? power button?
May 05 06:22:09 <ColdFyre> battery
May 05 06:22:15 <BusterB> or can i type reboot in xterm?
May 05 06:22:27 <ColdFyre> mine is currently stuck in a reboot loop atm
May 05 06:22:28 <ColdFyre> lol
May 05 06:29:53 <Khertan> Hello All !
May 05 06:31:37 <mece> hmm getting some depressing news on twitter :/
May 05 06:32:38 <Stskeeps> mm?
May 05 06:34:01 <mece> @qole: Flash 10 NOT coming for the Nokia N900! We have to "wait for the next device". (From an inside source) #N900 #maemo #meego #flash
May 05 06:34:51 <ColdFyre> is there some possible way i cna fix with reboot loop w/o reflashing?
May 05 06:35:01 <BusterB> mece: can u link to twitter?
May 05 06:35:30 <mece> BusterB, uuh? http://www.twitter.com :)
May 05 06:35:54 <mece> BusterB, or did you mean http://twitter.com/qole
May 05 06:37:06 <BusterB> nm found it
May 05 06:37:13 <BusterB> yeah thats it
May 05 06:38:24 <BusterB> mece: u just made me sad lol
May 05 06:39:16 <pupnik> less devices supporting flash makes pupnik a happy cow
May 05 06:39:37 <Khertan> hum ... firefox is still leaking on ubuntu 10.04
May 05 06:47:38 <RST38h> Was there time when FireFox DID NOT leak?
May 05 06:48:04 <Treibholz> RST38h: in the early eighties.
May 05 06:48:19 <RST38h> it's a freaking dynamic allocation nightmare
May 05 06:48:25 <ccooke> morning, all
May 05 06:48:27 <zash> Treibholz: you mean that netscape did't leak?
May 05 06:48:41 <RST38h> well, they had no DOM model then...
May 05 06:48:48 <Treibholz> zash: in the early eighties?
May 05 06:49:20 <Khertan> RST38h, yes there was a time on the rc1.0
May 05 06:49:31 <RST38h> Hehe
May 05 06:49:46 <Khertan> i think it s due to a plugin to be honest
May 05 06:50:00 <Khertan> as if you remove all firefox plugin and extension
May 05 06:50:15 <Khertan> in 24 hours i didn't see any leak
May 05 06:53:05 * Treibholz has reduced his plugins to the 3 most important
May 05 06:53:33 <timeless_mbp> is this maemo or windows or linux-desktop?
May 05 06:53:51 <Treibholz> adblock, vimperator and FireGestures (and firebug on some)
May 05 06:54:02 * Treibholz has no windows
May 05 06:54:09 <timeless_mbp> netscape 0.93 beta is © 1994 Netscape Communications Corporation
May 05 06:58:36 <furunk3l> y helo thar!
May 05 06:59:51 <RST38h> Khertan: So what plugin was it?
May 05 07:00:10 * RST38h personally sees leaks when browsing Google Analytics site
May 05 07:00:23 <Khertan> RST38h, i desactive them one by one
May 05 07:00:28 <Khertan> RST38h, i desactivate them one by one
May 05 07:00:33 <Treibholz> RST38h: adblock or fix your local DNS :-)
May 05 07:00:46 <RST38h> Treib: ?
May 05 07:01:12 <Khertan> Treibholz, maybe he want to see his google analytics stats :)
May 05 07:09:12 <alterego> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/04/meego_linux_mobile_android_microsoft/
May 05 07:11:00 <pupnik> nice find alterego
May 05 07:12:10 <alterego> Yeah, I thought it was an interesting read. I wonder if it has anything to do with google's JVM, I bet MS have patented .NET CLR running on mobile hardware as a sandbox of somekind and they fear mongered HTC into royalty arrangements.
May 05 07:12:26 <alterego> I find that quite disturbing really,
May 05 07:12:41 <Khertan> hat MeeGo is safe from any and all patent claims because of the size and breadth of the companies' patent portfolios
May 05 07:12:49 <mece> great quote ftfa: "they will use patents to protect those who adopt MeeGo against  opportunistic trolls and companies like Microsoft"
May 05 07:12:51 <RST38h> Given the poisonous IP climate in the States, it can be *anything*
May 05 07:13:28 <alterego> Khertan: yeah, that's what the article implies, that and meego is based on common GNU/Linux desktop technologies, they lost with SCO, they're not going to come after the mainstream again I doubt.
May 05 07:13:38 <alterego> hnologies, they  lost with SCO, they're not going to come after the mainstream  again I doubt.
May 05 07:13:52 <alterego> mece: "theregister" is good like that ;)
May 05 07:14:01 <alterego> chnologies, they  lost with SCO, they're not going to come after the mainstream  again I doubt.
May 05 07:14:24 <alterego> Sorry for the paste, twice, my mouse went spaccy.
May 05 07:16:01 <Khertan> http://khertan.net/article_view.php?path=Python&misc=A%20simple%20crash%20log%20reporting%20in%20python <<< someone have comment except the unsecure flyspray report ?
May 05 07:16:59 <alterego> Khertan: nice idea :)
May 05 07:17:00 <RST38h> Kehertan: "It is simple, really" and then 100+ lines of code? :)
May 05 07:17:22 <Khertan> RST38h, of course ... for the interface
May 05 07:17:35 <Khertan> there is always too much line of code due to interface
May 05 07:17:48 <Khertan> but the trapping exception is only 10 or 15 line
May 05 07:18:16 <alterego> Khertan: I like how you've called it a "class" :P
May 05 07:18:16 <RST38h> Hehe
May 05 07:18:19 <RST38h> moo, ab
May 05 07:18:26 <Khertan> alterego, ?
May 05 07:18:33 <ab> RST38h, meeh
May 05 07:18:37 <alterego> Looks more like a module to me :P
May 05 07:18:50 <Khertan> hum ... true
May 05 07:18:55 <Khertan> it s not a class
May 05 07:19:00 <Khertan> oups !
May 05 07:19:04 <alterego> :D
May 05 07:19:23 <Khertan> and it s not really a module
May 05 07:19:28 <Khertan> too badly written
May 05 07:19:29 <Khertan> :
May 05 07:19:29 <Khertan> :)
May 05 07:19:33 <alterego> :)
May 05 07:20:03 * RST38h feels inclined to ask johnkzin if they search employees rectal cavities at Apple
May 05 07:20:09 <alterego> Is the qt4 (4.6.2) in extras-devel the version that will be shipped with the next firmware release (PR1.2)?
May 05 07:20:19 <RST38h> I mean, that may be the only chance to find out...
May 05 07:20:27 <alterego> I'm thinking of installing it on the device for testing my Qt apps.
May 05 07:20:46 <mece> Aaaahaha RevdKathy "Don't worry, I have a set of 'get out of hell free' cards as  absolutants. Available in return for a small indulgence..." <3
May 05 07:21:51 <Khertan> alterego, i was interested by 4.6.2 too and found this
May 05 07:21:51 <Khertan> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=643851#post643851
May 05 07:21:52 <frals> Khertan: isnt using %s faster than using + str + str btw?
May 05 07:22:04 <Khertan> frals, it s
May 05 07:22:08 <alterego> chnologies, they  lost with SCO, they're not going to come after the mainstream  again I doubt.
May 05 07:22:09 <Khertan> frals, it s faster yes
May 05 07:22:18 <Khertan> but just for %s
May 05 07:22:38 <Khertan> and in fact it s not always the case
May 05 07:22:38 <Khertan> :)
May 05 07:22:46 <Khertan> depends on python
May 05 07:23:01 <Khertan> but it s doesn't follow pep8 ... this is sure
May 05 07:23:02 <Khertan> :)�
May 05 07:23:09 <frals> :)
May 05 07:23:17 <alterego> I generally always use interpolation over concatenation, mainly because I think it looks cleaner :)
May 05 07:23:35 <alterego> Khertan: thanks for the link, I guess others' are doing the same then.
May 05 07:24:21 <Khertan> alterego, i most of the time use concatenation, as the other language i mainly use for job is slower on interpolation
May 05 07:24:35 <Khertan> and switching between them is sometime confusing :)
May 05 07:25:23 <alterego> Heh
May 05 07:31:35 <mece> Hey I need someone to test my mini app.. or particularly the dependencies for it.
May 05 07:32:16 <mece> I have installed pretty much everything there is in experimental libraries, so I need someone that has not got every version of qt and pyside on their device
May 05 07:33:05 <pupnik> i have some time mece
May 05 07:34:11 <mece> pupnik, ok, I'll send a deb to garage in a bit.
May 05 07:34:48 <alterego> Heh
May 05 07:35:00 <alterego> tmo down again?
May 05 07:36:23 <pupnik> I dunno if Nokia should really give a rat's ass about the US market.  the USA is BROKE.
May 05 07:36:38 <mece> heeee
May 05 07:37:22 * ptl is stalled until the real PR1.2 comes out.
May 05 07:41:07 <alterego> I think they should care, but I think they should concentrate more on the product, the customers will follow :)
May 05 07:42:04 <mece> pupnik, ok tested on my own device, and at least it didn't implode. so upping deb to garage.
May 05 07:42:17 <Khertan> it s pretty silent on talk currently ... it s just the calm before the tempest ?
May 05 07:43:13 <ptl> I think people are just giving up silently.
May 05 07:44:37 <mece> perhaps abill_uk finally killed tmo!
May 05 07:46:17 <Khertan> hum ... for me it s not kill ... it s useable currently ;)
May 05 07:46:43 <Khertan> fMMS 1.0.0 aka �time to sleep i think�� <-- nice name
May 05 07:50:33 <Treibholz> listenig to a podcast AND browsing the web is a real pain...
May 05 07:53:24 <X-Fade> Treibholz: Yeah, you mean audio interruptions?
May 05 07:54:31 <Treibholz> X-Fade: yes.
May 05 07:55:05 <Treibholz> interruptions would be tollerable, but it's just calm, so I miss words.
May 05 07:55:07 <X-Fade> Treibholz: Noticed that too, but it is not the actual rendering in the browser it seems.
May 05 07:55:29 <Treibholz> X-Fade: no, it's just anything, that seems to use CPU
May 05 07:55:32 <X-Fade> Treibholz: It seems more IO/swaprelated
May 05 07:56:00 <Treibholz> I already turned swappiness down to 50
May 05 07:56:19 <X-Fade> Treibholz: Yeah, I'm playing with that too.
May 05 07:56:30 <X-Fade> Can't put my finger on it though.
May 05 07:57:18 <Treibholz> well, maemo and the n900 are an expensive public beta :-)
May 05 07:58:02 <ptl> Hi, X-Fade, you work at Nokia? Why is Nokia making us, its customers, endure so many frustrations with an update that should have been released long ago? Hack, the leaked PR1.2 is much better than the present software we are using and HK got its part.
May 05 07:58:03 <mece> X-Fade, did you try using mplayer and bypass pulse?
May 05 07:58:34 <X-Fade> ptl: No, I'm not.
May 05 07:58:45 <mece> ptl, not X-Fade's problem. He's not nokia.
May 05 07:58:53 <X-Fade> ptl: Nokia will release when it is ready, if it is not out, it is clearly not ready yet.
May 05 07:58:54 <ptl> ok.
May 05 07:59:12 <X-Fade> ptl: Believe me, don't leave it sitting on a shelf just to piss you off.
May 05 07:59:23 <X-Fade> *they don't.
May 05 07:59:30 <ptl> Oh, I got tired of this answer already. The big question is why it's "not ready", if it was released for HK and even the leaked PR1.2 is way better than the software I am currently running in my N900.
May 05 07:59:47 <pupnik> because there are bugs
May 05 07:59:56 <ptl> everything has bugs.
May 05 08:00:02 <ptl> most importantly, PR1.2 has bugfixes.
May 05 08:00:05 <Khertan> Treibholz, try disabling flash in the browser
May 05 08:00:26 <Khertan> disabling it i got less interruptions in audio player ... (do not ask me why :) )
May 05 08:00:27 <X-Fade> Generally when there are blocker bugs/regressions, they need to be fixed first.
May 05 08:00:33 <Anss|> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38528
May 05 08:00:35 <povbot`> Bug 38528: was not found.
May 05 08:00:45 <pupnik> ptl, i also would prefer a more incremental fix-it strategy, but we are not running the company
May 05 08:00:56 <ptl> Agreed but this was reasonable to be said about two months ago.
May 05 08:01:01 <ptl> not anymore.
May 05 08:01:22 <Anss|> should webkit/webGL work in n900?
May 05 08:01:45 <ptl> I am not currently participating in any of the brazilian forums I was in every day. Because if I do, I will tell everybody to sell their N900s.
May 05 08:01:59 <Treibholz> Khertan: even on sites that definitively have NO flash.
May 05 08:02:00 <mece> pupnik, I have a feeling they are moving towards incremental upgrades..
May 05 08:02:10 <Khertan> Treibholz, even on sites without flash
May 05 08:02:14 <Khertan> :)
May 05 08:02:26 <Stskeeps> ptl: i think we should be happy they're doing proper testing and process
May 05 08:02:33 <Stskeeps> instead of pushing out obviously broken crap.
May 05 08:02:38 <X-Fade> Incremental upgrades are hard because of certification.
May 05 08:03:04 <pupnik> see, there are good reasons why things are as they are.
May 05 08:03:11 <Treibholz> flash is a disease anyway... ( This is a historic event! I agree with Steve Jobs! )
May 05 08:03:14 <X-Fade> Which takes quite a lot of time and is expensive.
May 05 08:04:06 <Khertan> Treibholz, flash is a pandemic
May 05 08:04:20 <Khertan> but steve jobs choice isn't better
May 05 08:04:58 <Treibholz> flash isn't only used for video!!!!111oneoneeleven
May 05 08:05:10 <mece> is there a useful open format for streaming video in browsers btw?
May 05 08:05:19 <Treibholz> mece: theora.
May 05 08:05:33 <mece> Treibholz, righty.
May 05 08:05:53 <RST38h> X-Fade: You do not need to certify most of the system
May 05 08:06:02 <RST38h> X-Fade: Just the stuff that deals with cellular
May 05 08:06:11 <mece> pupnik, did you test? What happened?
May 05 08:06:24 <Stskeeps> RST38h: and bluetooth..
May 05 08:06:25 <X-Fade> RST38h: There are multiple things that need to be certified, not only cellular.
May 05 08:06:33 <Stskeeps> and usb..
May 05 08:06:34 <Stskeeps> :P
May 05 08:06:41 <jpe> watch out, jobs is after theora as well...
May 05 08:06:45 <RST38h> X-Fade: This does not prevent Nokia from releasing an update to Modest, for example
May 05 08:06:54 <RST38h> X-Fade: Or MicroB
May 05 08:07:01 <Stskeeps> RST38h: modest is publically developed
May 05 08:07:04 <X-Fade> RST38h: Microb is a bad example.
May 05 08:07:14 <X-Fade> As flash needs cert too ;)
May 05 08:07:14 <RST38h> X-Fade: So, no, certification does not apply 100% here =)
May 05 08:07:21 <Stskeeps> no, but it does delay the whole thing
May 05 08:07:33 <RST38h> X-Fade: As long as you keep plugin the same, it should not afaik
May 05 08:07:43 <Treibholz> certs for what?
May 05 08:07:46 <Stskeeps> certification
May 05 08:07:53 <RST38h> Stskeeps: then why not release Modest updates every month or so?
May 05 08:07:54 <Stskeeps> ie 'usb compliant' etc
May 05 08:07:56 <Treibholz> certified by whom?
May 05 08:08:16 <Jaffa> Morning, all
May 05 08:08:21 <Stskeeps> RST38h: there's updates in the source tree, feel free to pick them up - the infra just doesn't exist :P
May 05 08:08:21 <RST38h> Treib: USB Consortium, etc
May 05 08:08:30 * mece tips his hat to Jaffa
May 05 08:08:42 <Stskeeps> RST38h: sardine was an attempt i think
May 05 08:08:48 <X-Fade> I've been thinking of doing a Sardine like release based on open components.
May 05 08:08:50 <RST38h> Stskeeps: by the infra you mean the mechanism for building those and committing them to extras-devel?
May 05 08:08:55 <X-Fade> If/when we have an obs working.
May 05 08:09:01 <RST38h> X-Fade: wOULD BE VERY, very NICE
May 05 08:09:09 <RST38h> (sorry for involuntary capslock :))
May 05 08:09:11 <mece> hee
May 05 08:09:17 <X-Fade> RST38h: No, separate repo. Otherewise everybody can break your device ;)
May 05 08:09:20 <Stskeeps> RST38h: there's a bit of issue with ham domains but besides that..
May 05 08:09:25 <RST38h> X-Fade: true
May 05 08:09:32 <X-Fade> But this comes at the expense of breaking regular SSU.
May 05 08:09:38 <Jaffa> X-Fade: hrw did such a repo for modest. Had some nice patches in which are in bugs.maemo.org but might not be shipped by Nokia (i.e. making it's quoting sane for plain text emails)
May 05 08:09:46 <X-Fade> So if you want to have a new official release, you need to reflash probably.
May 05 08:10:25 <X-Fade> Or you need to be really creative with domain priorities ;)
May 05 08:10:58 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Yes, I know. We could do it for a lot more components though.
May 05 08:12:25 <X-Fade> gitorious has a lot of improvemens, which could be packaged.
May 05 08:12:52 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Indeed.
May 05 08:13:01 <RST38h> X-Fade: Why not simply reinstall that SSU package that forces other packages versions?
May 05 08:13:29 <X-Fade> RST38h: Because the original SSU package then is not considered trusted again.
May 05 08:13:35 <hrw|gone> RST38h: modest follows other libraries... modest used by pr1.2 require livesearch from libhildon
May 05 08:13:42 <X-Fade> So you need to change trust priorities back first.
May 05 08:14:09 <Khertan> X-Fade, there is turn around to break device !
May 05 08:14:11 <hrw|gone> so you need newer libtinymail, newer modest, patch them to compile with pr1.1.1 etc
May 05 08:14:17 * hrw|gone -> out
May 05 08:14:24 <X-Fade> RST38h: So switching is possible, but requires quite some work to get right.
May 05 08:15:00 <RST38h> Interesting...
May 05 08:15:36 <X-Fade> Anyway, what lma did with the diablo community ssu for maemo.org, proves that it can work.
May 05 08:16:09 <X-Fade> My N810 now runs 5.2010.16-1 diablo ;)
May 05 08:17:40 <X-Fade> Another thing to consider is that with this Sardine like SSUs you will get incompatibility with current Extras.
May 05 08:17:57 <X-Fade> So you would need an extra Extras instance linked against the SSU libs.
May 05 08:18:41 <X-Fade> Which is why I think we really need an obs setup for that before we try this ;)
May 05 08:18:53 <mece> Is there a way to make a deb depend on a particular version of a package. Namely pyside, since the newest is not installable with pr1.1.1
May 05 08:19:17 <X-Fade> apt-get install pyside=versionhere
May 05 08:19:33 <X-Fade> But get the one from extras-testing, that one should work.
May 05 08:19:51 <X-Fade> Just disable -devel before installing pyside.
May 05 08:20:25 <mece> X-Fade, does the extras-testing one use qt4.6.2?
May 05 08:20:33 <X-Fade> mece: afaik, yes/
May 05 08:20:53 <mece> X-Fade, but it's rather particular, since the qt packages are in devel...
May 05 08:21:18 <X-Fade> Qt is a mess, no doubt about that.
May 05 08:21:43 <X-Fade> After PR1.2 release, it should get better. We had a meeting to make sure this doesn't happen again.
May 05 08:23:30 <mece> X-Fade, ok but back to the question. I want my package in extras-devel, and I want it to be installable now, without having to manually do pyside-qt4-core=0.2.3-1 pyside-qt4-gui=0.2.3-1
May 05 08:23:57 <X-Fade> mece: forget about it ;)
May 05 08:24:49 <mece> X-Fade, so I can't make it try to use a particular version of pyside  by adding some magical version numbers and such in my control file?
May 05 08:27:34 <X-Fade> mece: You can, but dependencies between repositories is just a really bad thing.
May 05 08:29:16 <mece> X-Fade, there is no pyside in extras-testing that I can see...
May 05 08:30:04 <X-Fade> Ah, pyside. duh.
May 05 08:30:15 <X-Fade> I was thinking about pyqt.
May 05 08:34:19 <mece> hmm so would it work with Depends: pyside-qt4-core (= 0.2.3-1) or something like that? I don't know the correct syntax
May 05 08:34:53 <alterego> mece: yeah, that looks fine.
May 05 08:57:37 <crashanddie> EHLO y'all
May 05 09:01:02 <Shapeshifter> so, where do I put my stuff now that omploader is in a coma?
May 05 09:01:15 <Shapeshifter> as in, I need a pastebin that takes any sort of files.
May 05 09:01:26 <Shapeshifter> and nothing stupid like mediafire
May 05 09:02:40 <chem|st> I think we should split TMO in half
May 05 09:03:18 <mece> chem|st, where would we split it?
May 05 09:03:38 <chem|st> mece: right in the middle and cut through all these dumb users
May 05 09:03:52 <mece> chem|st :D hahaha
May 05 09:03:54 <pupnik> your definition of who is dumb is personal
May 05 09:04:09 <mece> pupnik, yeah. you should use my definitions.
May 05 09:04:14 <chem|st> mece: no for sure the more I am doing mod job here I think we should split userbase from develbase
May 05 09:04:27 <mece> chem|st, that's true.
May 05 09:04:37 <chem|st> pupnik: no I go for educated guess by valid vote
May 05 09:04:47 <pupnik> there has always been a seperate place for dev discussion
May 05 09:05:02 <mece> pupnik, the mailinglists?
May 05 09:05:20 <pupnik> indeed, you html-clickey-person
May 05 09:06:08 <mece> pupnik, I'm on those. but I don't really like them though. the forums are much more convenient for me.
May 05 09:06:43 <pupnik> then deal with others who value convenience over cognition ;)
May 05 09:08:10 <chem|st> pupnik: then developers should stop to post there devel and testing announcements
May 05 09:09:49 <tybollt> new ovi out yet?
May 05 09:10:07 <chem|st> reading one post after another from people whining about being not able to do this and that because of filled /
May 05 09:10:17 <chem|st> tybollt: what do you mean?
May 05 09:11:58 <tybollt> I-s t-h-e n-e-w v-e-r-s-i-o-n o-f o-v-i s-u-i-t-e r-e-l-e-a-s-e-d y-e-t?
May 05 09:12:14 <Treibholz> what is OVI-Suite?
May 05 09:12:18 <fcrozat> beta test didn't even started for it
May 05 09:12:28 <fcrozat> since inscription are until May 11 IIRC
May 05 09:12:46 * tybollt FACEPALM
May 05 09:12:57 <Treibholz> and for what would I need it?
May 05 09:13:13 * tybollt FACEDESK
May 05 09:13:19 <tybollt> (getting sore here)
May 05 09:13:41 <chem|st> tybollt: the beta started
May 05 09:14:08 <chem|st> Treibholz: at some point it is just useless without wine
May 05 09:14:14 <tybollt> hmm whom to believe chemist or fcrozat
May 05 09:14:40 <Treibholz> chem|st: ahh, a windows-software?
May 05 09:14:41 <chem|st> Treibholz: btw thats an idea, installing it via wine may give sparkling glitters all over the place
May 05 09:14:51 <chem|st> Treibholz: cant tell
May 05 09:14:58 <Treibholz> chem|st: what is it for?
May 05 09:15:06 <Shapeshifter> http://pastie.org/946486 so, what was that about deb packaging being awesome again?
May 05 09:15:30 <Shapeshifter> basically I can't uninstall pyside-qt4-core
May 05 09:15:48 <Shapeshifter> and it's not giving me a reason. just "error processing".
May 05 09:16:03 <pupnik> never saw "Package is in a very bad inconsistent state" before
May 05 09:16:07 <pupnik> congrats, Shapeshifter
May 05 09:16:11 <chem|st> ovi-suite is like pc-suite but more connected to ovi (remember Club Nokia? thats going to be ovi)
May 05 09:16:47 <tybollt> ovi suite is next gen pc suite
May 05 09:16:49 <Treibholz> chem|st: Club Nokia... I remember getting a member-card for my 5110...
May 05 09:16:58 * timeless_mbp sighs
May 05 09:17:03 <timeless_mbp> libhildon != libhildon1
May 05 09:17:17 <timeless_mbp> libhidlon1, libhidon1 != libhildon1
May 05 09:17:24 <Shapeshifter> deb packaging is rubbish. period.
May 05 09:17:25 <chem|st> tybollt: I am tester and if you have a look at tmo I had to close/delete boost all over the place because ppl not reading what they sign (NDA)
May 05 09:17:49 <timeless_mbp> pupnik: i used to get that all the time
May 05 09:18:38 <tybollt> chem|st: timeless_mbp_ Having fun - eh?
May 05 09:19:11 <timeless_mbp> tybollt: typing is hard
May 05 09:19:48 <chem|st> tmo gives me timeouts
May 05 09:19:58 <chem|st> ~blame Reggie
May 05 09:19:59 * infobot blames Reggie (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
May 05 09:21:08 <Shapeshifter> well this is broken. it suggests reinstalling the package which of course also doesn't work
May 05 09:22:19 <ptl> ~blame PR1.2
May 05 09:22:20 * infobot blames PR1.2 (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
May 05 09:26:34 <chem|st> ~trout ptl
May 05 09:26:35 * infobot slaps ptl around a bit with a large trout!
May 05 09:28:22 <Shapeshifter> But really, if people think apt is great and rpm is bad, how horrible must rpm be...
May 05 09:29:32 <nid0> rpm's fine
May 05 09:30:30 <timeless_mbp> Shapeshifter: rpm isn't bad
May 05 09:30:34 <tybollt> this is maemo, not meepoo
May 05 09:30:39 <tybollt> please
May 05 09:30:48 <timeless_mbp> i'm sure someone's run rpm on maemo :)
May 05 09:31:21 <Shapeshifter> In any case, how do I possibly fix this. I went through a hole catalogue of things to do "when apt fails" but none of them worked.
May 05 09:31:29 <pgas> rpm is more like dpkg than like apt
May 05 09:31:43 <tybollt> pgas++
May 05 09:31:55 <tybollt> yum is to rpm what apt is to dpkg
May 05 09:33:26 <Shapeshifter> I can't do anything anymore, really, because whatever I do it tells me pyside-qt4-core is in a very serious bad state and needs antibiotics immediately
May 05 09:33:39 <Shapeshifter> and I cant reinstall it, I cant uninstall it
May 05 09:33:46 <Shapeshifter> because it depends on stuff which is missing in the repo.
May 05 09:34:19 <timeless_mbp> Shapeshifter:  does dpkg -L pyside-qt4-core list stuff?
May 05 09:34:30 <timeless_mbp> what i'd do is:
May 05 09:34:48 <RST38h> OMG: Microsoft releases Symbian Communicator
May 05 09:34:54 <timeless_mbp> 1. tarball backup all_files_from_that_dpkg_L
May 05 09:35:06 <timeless_mbp> 2. delete all_files_from_that_dpkg_L
May 05 09:35:15 <timeless_mbp> 3. edit /var/lib/dpkg/status
May 05 09:35:22 <tybollt> rst?
May 05 09:35:26 <Shapeshifter> timeless_mbp: yes, it lists the tree to /usr/lib/pyshared/python2.5/PySide/QtCore.so and to some stuff in /usr/share/
May 05 09:35:39 <alterego> RST38h: ?
May 05 09:35:47 <Shapeshifter> timeless_mbp: thanks, I'll try that
May 05 09:35:55 <timeless_mbp> Shapeshifter: no warranty :)
May 05 09:36:23 <tybollt> ah
May 05 09:36:32 <tybollt> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/05/nokia_microsoft_messaging_app/
May 05 09:36:36 <tybollt> *YAWN*
May 05 09:38:49 <Shapeshifter> timeless_mbp: mhh, I fixed the problem by unpacking an old bunch of pyside debs I got from MohammedAG
May 05 09:39:12 <Shapeshifter> So now stuff is okay again but I guess next time I do something with libshiboken packages or similar, breakage will be back
May 05 09:55:20 <rmrfchik> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=644197
May 05 09:55:22 <rmrfchik> o_O
May 05 09:56:17 <DocScrutinizer51> moo
May 05 09:56:43 <rmrfchik> ahh. troll
May 05 09:56:45 <rmrfchik> damn
May 05 09:56:58 <DocScrutinizer51> troll???
May 05 09:57:01 <adeus> using multiple exclamation marks is a sure sign of a diseased mind
May 05 09:58:00 <tybollt> troll!111111111111
May 05 09:58:22 <chem|st> ppl now start using the report this function... now I need someone to hack it to have the report this change into a has been reported to have posts not reported 6 times
May 05 09:58:50 <DocScrutinizer51> adeus: mixing exlamation with question mark is a sign of a poorly coded bot. Authenticate to turingtest NOW!
May 05 10:00:07 <DocScrutinizer> adeus: no bots allowed here. So show your're human, or get banned
May 05 10:00:12 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: =)
May 05 10:00:27 <DocScrutinizer> adeus: waiting
May 05 10:01:28 <tybollt> omeh
May 05 10:01:29 <Stskeeps> a bot with a finnish name?
May 05 10:01:30 <Stskeeps> :P
May 05 10:01:38 <DocScrutinizer> no idea
May 05 10:01:46 <Stskeeps> best way to do it is by verifying it instead
May 05 10:01:51 <Stskeeps> ie doing "foo???"
May 05 10:01:53 <DocScrutinizer> I gave him enough chance and reasoning to answer
May 05 10:02:16 * Stskeeps passes DocScrutinizer some coffee
May 05 10:02:28 <tybollt> now now you gals...
May 05 10:02:39 <rmrfchik> why HHGTTG cames to my mind now/
May 05 10:02:41 <rmrfchik> ?
May 05 10:04:04 * tybollt calls slartibartfast on rmrfchick
May 05 10:04:39 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: thanks, much needed
May 05 10:06:08 <tybollt> Stskeeps: I don't get any? :(
May 05 10:06:20 <tybollt> (uh that came out way WAY wrong ;)
May 05 10:07:13 <adeus> hey go blame Terry Pratchett :)
May 05 10:07:47 <ccooke> adeus: I do. Every day :-)
May 05 10:08:11 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen javispedro
May 05 10:08:12 <infobot> javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 17h 40m 20s ago, saying: 'oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it.'.
May 05 10:08:17 <DocScrutinizer> ??
May 05 10:08:21 <DocScrutinizer> oO
May 05 10:09:09 <furunk3l> y helo thar!
May 05 10:09:20 <pupnik_> Internet Censorship Is Now “Substantially Justified” — Mises Economics Blog http://blog.mises.org/12623/internet-censorship-is-now-substantially-justified/   "It is the speaker who must prove he has a right to speak"
May 05 10:09:54 <DocScrutinizer> that's no change :-P
May 05 10:22:01 <phellarv> Hmmm - packaging ruby 1.9 for Maemo takes time
May 05 10:23:54 <MaikB> Hello
May 05 10:24:47 <lcuk> frals, resize image width "Original" isnt liked when I try to send a photo taken with camera on my provider
May 05 10:25:15 <lcuk> but i didnt set it - i seem to recall filling in 320 on last test
May 05 10:25:29 <frals> hmm
May 05 10:25:45 <MaikB> As you all know the attitude on talk.maemo.org is very whiny.  This is annoying but acceptable, IMO.  What is not acceptable is the 4chan style wording (adult swear words and very personal attacks) that pops up all over the place.
May 05 10:26:22 <Jaffa> MaikB: Agreed. Email Reggie, or maybe raise a bug ;-)
May 05 10:26:35 <MaikB> This is real problem which requires more intensive moderation
May 05 10:26:41 <lcuk> MaikB, i noticed this just a minute ago and was waiting until i spotted a moderator plodding around, descending from light hearted ribbing to one or two specific people out and out profanity and rudeness
May 05 10:26:53 <adeus> phellarv: are you doing it or waiting someone else to do it?
May 05 10:27:17 <frals> lcuk: the fact your operator isnt liking enormous mmses is normal i guess, you sure havent fiddled with the image resize at some point to set it to original?
May 05 10:27:42 <RST38h> Apple-obsessed geeks launch fanboi dating site
May 05 10:27:52 <lcuk> frals, after i configured it once and we went over the ux a coupe of weeks ago i had not updated package
May 05 10:28:01 <SpeedEvil> original would be silly anyway. 2MP is the functional max of the camera
May 05 10:29:27 <Surfa> frals, also many devices aren't able to receive "oversized" mms-messages
May 05 10:29:57 <frals> Surfa: yeah, either operator hates them or the receiving handset :)
May 05 10:29:58 <Surfa> but ok, i don't know what's definition of original is not liked :)
May 05 10:30:06 <frals> (fMMS does no such thing, it eats everything ;-))
May 05 10:30:29 <Surfa> well, all modern handsets should eat too :)
May 05 10:30:30 <phellarv> adeus: I'm doing it
May 05 10:30:30 <MaikB> Jaffa, lcuk, I started using "Report This", but I would like to know what's the position of the moderators on this issue.  Maybe a key word for this kind of posts can be established, so that the moderators can save time
May 05 10:30:35 <Surfa> it's more a historical problem
May 05 10:30:48 <frals> lcuk: when we went over the ux it was still a numeric field, you might have put 0 there.. ill do some testing once i get home either way, cheers :)
May 05 10:30:57 <frals> Surfa: they should, but they dont seem to ;)
May 05 10:31:19 <phellarv> Hrmf - ruby 1.9 failed - Now trying ruby 1.8
May 05 10:31:20 <lcuk> frals ok - i had it set to something because ive got mmseds back and forth between missus
May 05 10:31:25 <Surfa> bad devices.. any nokia devices included in this?
May 05 10:31:53 <frals> lcuk: oh, if its anything but 240/320/640 its gonna show up as original i think
May 05 10:32:05 <Jaffa> MaikB: Most of the moderators aren't here
May 05 10:32:07 <frals> can check what its set to with gconftool-2 -R /apps/fmms
May 05 10:32:17 <lcuk> ahhh frals
May 05 10:32:28 <lcuk> i reset it now, but that might be it
May 05 10:32:42 <lcuk> suppose i mightv done 512 or something
May 05 10:33:10 <MaikB> Jaffa, one of them is would be enough to spread the word :)
May 05 10:33:33 <Jaffa> MaikB: I don't think they're that interconnected
May 05 10:34:30 <MaikB> To make my position clear: I don't think this kind of language is ill minded, it is fun (most of the time). But talk.maemo.org is just not the place for it
May 05 10:34:32 <frals> lcuk: that be why then :) ill try to reproduce anyway
May 05 10:34:41 <timeless_mbp> Jaffa: so… i think i have a package set that will work w/ pr1.1.1 and pr1.2 :)
May 05 10:34:47 <timeless_mbp> it only took a week or two
May 05 10:35:05 * timeless_mbp can't wait to see what breaks
May 05 10:36:07 <Jaffa> timeless_mbp: Of translations?
May 05 10:36:11 <timeless_mbp> yeah
May 05 10:36:25 <lcuk> frals, based on what you said, perhaps a tweak would be if(value<=240){Small}elseif(value<=320){Medium}elseif(value<=640){large}else{Original}
May 05 10:36:28 <timeless_mbp> my solution is to side by side install both sets
May 05 10:36:34 <timeless_mbp> and dynamically pick the right set
May 05 10:36:43 <timeless_mbp> which of course requires some magic to figure out which set is right
May 05 10:37:01 <lcuk> or similar
May 05 10:37:15 <frals> lcuk: yeah.. good idea
May 05 10:38:31 <RST38h> Hmmm...Eero has made an interesting observation
May 05 10:38:59 <RST38h> Looks like the troubles with Media Player applet may be due to OMWeather or some other applet
May 05 10:39:14 <lcuk> MaikB, most seem to be from "-maemoGUY-"
May 05 10:39:27 <MaikB> lcuk, yepp
May 05 10:39:28 * RST38h only has OMWeather and the little calendar thing, so it must be one of two
May 05 10:39:42 <timeless_mbp> gah
May 05 10:39:49 * timeless_mbp still manages to screw this up
May 05 10:40:03 <MaikB> I would be surprised if a big number of ppl had be banned in order to get this issue sorted
May 05 10:40:17 <tybollt> RST38h: I would not be surprised if it is that (clusterfuck) Omweather. :-)
May 05 10:40:28 <tybollt> (yes I am using omweather myself :)
May 05 10:41:12 <RST38h> OMWeather is pretty coool
May 05 10:41:26 <tybollt> updated it recently?
May 05 10:41:37 <tybollt> -> reboot device...
May 05 10:41:38 <tybollt> uhm
May 05 10:42:31 <Arkenoi> rst38h: i prefer foreca, it seems more accurate and the widget is smaller
May 05 10:43:09 <RST38h> Arkenoi: OMWeather has configurable widget shape, I made it vertical so that it does not take much space
May 05 10:43:15 <RST38h> Can't do the same with foreca
May 05 10:44:06 <tybollt> also the scrolling omweather does when placing the weather icons... awww so cuuute :)
May 05 10:44:56 <lcuk> tybollt, then dont use it.  you have choices.
May 05 10:45:14 <lcuk> just dont moan about the hard work the devs do in the open community
May 05 10:45:32 <lcuk> infact, better is find out why and try fix it and offer patch
May 05 10:45:42 <tybollt> lcuk: That's the pi
May 05 10:45:46 <tybollt> point :)
May 05 10:45:47 <lcuk> im sure vlad and wazd will be happy for the help
May 05 10:46:08 <tybollt> ehr
May 05 10:46:25 <tybollt> yes lcuk, I understand that you want me to be a happy li'll fanboi, but, sorry. :-)
May 05 10:46:53 <timeless_mbp> Trizt: try using .1
May 05 10:46:56 <RST38h> lcuk: you are overreacting
May 05 10:46:57 <timeless_mbp> i think it should install
May 05 10:47:04 <lcuk> possibly
May 05 10:47:58 <RST38h> But yes, just because an app *may* *possibly* have a problem with dbus does not mean it is garbage
May 05 10:48:08 <RST38h> Diagnose, report, wait for Vlad to fix it
May 05 10:48:49 <tybollt> RST38h: Fine, I may have exagerated a little bit
May 05 10:48:54 <RST38h> quick question: Where is the IMEI?
May 05 10:49:04 <mece> RST38h, under the battery
May 05 10:49:22 <tybollt> *#06*
May 05 10:49:23 <RST38h> looking for a location that is closer to shell
May 05 10:49:29 <tybollt> *#06* <-- will show you your IMEI
May 05 10:49:39 <RST38h> not anywhere in the file system?
May 05 10:49:39 <mece> hahahaha
May 05 10:50:10 <RST38h> the damn thing is on the charger in the next room, and I am too lazy =)
May 05 10:50:24 <mece> lol
May 05 10:50:46 <tybollt>  /proc/imei? :P
May 05 10:50:54 <mece> ok right err.. so.. I'm still working on this dependency issue..
May 05 10:51:38 * Arkenoi wonders why people keep whining about java
May 05 10:52:06 <timeless> hrm, didn't kwork
May 05 10:52:12 <timeless> :(
May 05 10:52:15 <mece> I put Depends: pyside-qt4-core (= 0.2.3-1maemo3), but it didn't work. however if I do apt-get install pyside-qt4-core=0.2.3-1maemo3 it works. So, how should the Depends line look like to get apt-get -f install to install that version?
May 05 10:52:16 <RST38h> Arkenoi: two groups
May 05 10:52:17 <Arkenoi> it is that trivial to add, so no one made it really user friendly could simply mean just one thing: no one really cares enough
May 05 10:52:21 <tybollt> timeless: kworkian?
May 05 10:52:38 <DocScrutinizer> adeus: sorry mate
May 05 10:52:57 <RST38h> Arkenoi: 1) java fanatics, never use java apps, just program hello world stuff with buttons
May 05 10:53:06 <RST38h> Arkenoi: 2) people who want MIDP games
May 05 10:53:30 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Neither group has enough expertise to install or package Java
May 05 10:53:31 <adeus> DocScrutinizer: servers me right for working instead of ircing!
May 05 10:53:37 <vanadismobile> does the n900 allow to priorise an application, i.e. media player?
May 05 10:53:39 <Arkenoi> rst38: well, if they do care that much, why not make emulator usable? people do run opera mini successfully atm
May 05 10:53:47 <Arkenoi> ah
May 05 10:53:55 <RST38h> Arkenoi: Because that requires skills
May 05 10:54:04 <RST38h> Arkenoi: While whining does not
May 05 10:54:18 <alterego> vanadismobile: messing with prioritisation is a bad idea.
May 05 10:54:30 <Arkenoi> vanadismobile: media player jerks because it is io bound, so tweaking cpu priority won't really help
May 05 10:55:01 <Arkenoi> alterego: well, until i reniced as-daemon and intellisyncd, it sucked.
May 05 10:55:20 <Arkenoi> it still sucks, just less
May 05 10:55:24 <alterego> Heh
May 05 10:56:06 <vanadismobile> Arkenoi, thx
May 05 11:01:52 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: pnatd at+cgsn
May 05 11:02:08 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: = IMEI
May 05 11:02:12 <DocScrutinizer> HTH
May 05 11:02:55 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: I
May 05 11:03:16 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt: ?
May 05 11:03:29 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: I'm guessing about a litre of coffee or a bunch of amphetamine would work better ;)
May 05 11:03:35 <achipa> mece: don't do it. hard-depending on exact package versions in such cases is the wrong solution
May 05 11:03:58 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt: why you're insulting me?
May 05 11:04:19 <Arkenoi> vertsms and its phone keyboard emulator for typing SMS with 12 keys is just sick ;-)
May 05 11:04:56 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: Ehr no I was poking fun of the fact that RST wouldn't want to get out of his chair to go grab the phone :)
May 05 11:05:39 * RST38h found it
May 05 11:05:48 <RST38h> But thanks Doc
May 05 11:08:06 <iPeter-> Hi, is it possible to flash n900 with ubuntu?
May 05 11:08:25 <mece> achipa, well it's that or nothing right now. I can upgrade once things work again.
May 05 11:08:44 <iPeter-> and if i take backup of my n900, where it does save, because id like to get that backup to my pc
May 05 11:09:18 <DocScrutinizer> btw anybody got an idea how to quit pnatd, except 'killall pnatd' or tear down the ssh?
May 05 11:09:42 <achipa> mece: oooor, you could save yourself a ton of trouble and just install PyQt but I guess you have some sort of grudge with it :)
May 05 11:12:15 <Dima_Sharihin> hi2all. I tried to install maemo sdk, but installer returns error. When I entered in browser http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/nokia-binaries/binary-i386/Packages.gz i saw 404 error
May 05 11:13:02 <X-Fade> Dima_Sharihin: That can't be a correct url.
May 05 11:13:24 <Dima_Sharihin> X-Fade, oh, really? Maybe installer incorrect too?
May 05 11:13:32 <X-Fade> I doubt it :)
May 05 11:14:04 <Dima_Sharihin> Huh. But why it can't download binary packages with wizard...
May 05 11:14:29 <achipa> X-Fade: any optification epiphanies ?
May 05 11:14:47 <X-Fade> achipa: Mailed Ed and Marius to ask if they see the problem.
May 05 11:14:54 <achipa> X-Fade: thx
May 05 11:15:06 <DocScrutinizer> (pnatd) is that a bug or am I too stupid to see the obvious alternative to ^C, ^D, .<CR>
May 05 11:15:20 * RST38h has now confirmed what he always suspected: DISk ACTIVITY HANGS N900
May 05 11:15:30 <DocScrutinizer> sure
May 05 11:15:36 <DocScrutinizer> everybody sane knows
May 05 11:15:37 <iPeter-> Hey. i have never flashed my n900, and now i would want to. Is it possible with ubuntu?
May 05 11:15:51 <RST38h> Copying a huge file from SD card to internal card. CPU usage 0%.
May 05 11:15:54 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: nice you got a prrof though
May 05 11:15:55 <achipa> DISK ACTIVITY HANGS [insert any computing platform here]
May 05 11:16:03 <DocScrutinizer> proof even
May 05 11:16:08 <RST38h> achipa: not really
May 05 11:16:31 <RST38h> achipa: Go copy 1GB of MP3 files from one drive to another on your PC. See if the OS is responsive in the process
May 05 11:16:33 <achipa> okay, LINUX based computing platform for starters ;)
May 05 11:16:36 <DocScrutinizer> s/DISK/SWAP and you're a winner
May 05 11:16:46 <RST38h> achipa: A'ok do it in Ubuntu
May 05 11:16:59 <RST38h> Doc: Well, *any* disk activity will do it seems
May 05 11:17:06 <RST38h> Doc: Swap included of course
May 05 11:17:15 <achipa> RST38h: kills me every time, especially on notebooks
May 05 11:17:24 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: kernel spinlocks? NO_PREEMPTIVE?? oO
May 05 11:17:25 <RST38h> achipa: works for me
May 05 11:17:45 <RST38h> Doc: Not sure, I am afraid this has to be addressed to Urho or someone else from Nokia
May 05 11:17:55 <RST38h> with swap I understand though
May 05 11:18:04 <mece> achipa,  I couldn't get pyqt4 to work at all with qt4.6.2
May 05 11:18:12 <achipa> RST38h: works as in 'doesn't influence UI responsiveness' or ?
May 05 11:18:27 <achipa> mece: did you try my PR1.1.1 package from the talk thread ?
May 05 11:18:33 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: we got a ionice on maemo?
May 05 11:18:40 <mece> achipa, url plz?
May 05 11:19:02 <achipa> We are currently upgrading server software. We will be back soon...
May 05 11:19:04 <achipa> duh
May 05 11:19:22 <mece> achipa, I'm trying to get the program installable from extras-devel without having to manually install stuff, so external stuff would not really  help though.
May 05 11:19:47 <Dima_Sharihin> achipa, tnx, do you know, when they will have done upgrading?
May 05 11:19:54 <achipa> mece: the thing is, whatever you try before PR1.2 will end up being a frankenpackage
May 05 11:20:40 <mece> achipa, that's ok. one can upgrade to something proper once pr1.2 is out. All i want is for it to work right fn now ;)
May 05 11:21:35 <mece> and installing pyside-qt4-core 0.2.3-1maemo3 works, so that's what I want my package to do.
May 05 11:21:54 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: maybe you find a ionice(1) for maemo, could be handy
May 05 11:22:35 <RST38h> Doc: Arkenoi was also looking for it
May 05 11:23:12 <DocScrutinizer> depending on io-scheduler it might turn out to be vastly useless though
May 05 11:24:25 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: renicing the copying process doesn't help?
May 05 11:24:32 <achipa> mece: you realize that package is deprecated and the repository cleaner script can remove it any day now ?
May 05 11:25:00 <DocScrutinizer> frankenpackage - heh lovely
May 05 11:25:47 <RST38h> Doc: Well I am looking for a general solution that will cure swap lockup problems too
May 05 11:25:58 <RST38h> This particular copying thing was just a test
May 05 11:26:27 <DocScrutinizer> swap lockups are *very* hard to cure, probably impossible
May 05 11:26:52 <RST38h> decrease swappiness? decrease overal system memory footprint by killing unnecessary daemons?
May 05 11:26:52 <DocScrutinizer> depending on what's swapped out and needs a swap-in
May 05 11:27:03 <mece> achipa, is it?
May 05 11:27:19 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: sure, you can try to avoid swapping
May 05 11:27:44 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: but a swapped-out process will block for quite some time inevitably
May 05 11:27:55 <mece> on a side note, Microsoft Kin One has to be the dumbest looking phone ever made!
May 05 11:28:27 * DocScrutinizer mumbles 'stop playing cpt, obvious, doc!"
May 05 11:28:29 <RST38h> Doc: I am mostly pissed off at the overal system lockup
May 05 11:28:30 <achipa> mece: it is, everybody went for PR1.2 stuff and effectively deprecated their old packages
May 05 11:28:43 <RST38h> Doc: Due to some process (Fennec!) hogging swap
May 05 11:29:01 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, swapper daemon is kernel prio
May 05 11:29:13 <DocScrutinizer> prolly that's why
May 05 11:29:19 <mece> achipa, but where is the newer package then?
May 05 11:29:52 <achipa> mece: it's the 0.3.1-1maemo1 one
May 05 11:30:12 <DocScrutinizer> actually a sane design should drop prio of swapper daemon temporaraily according to the prio of the process triggering the swap
May 05 11:30:25 <achipa> mece: and yes, it's broken, hello Qt package naming madness
May 05 11:30:39 <mece> achipa, ah yes.. there it is.
May 05 11:31:18 <DocScrutinizer> btw that's exactly how even phone/dialer app comes to a grinding halt/freeze
May 05 11:32:07 <DocScrutinizer> anybody to confirm my thoughts or stop me from telling BS, please?
May 05 11:32:51 <andrewfblack> Best thing I've seen on t.m.o in a while http://talk.maemo.org/
May 05 11:33:14 <Shapeshifter> indeed
May 05 11:34:24 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: I notice swapping issues too.
May 05 11:34:54 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: I wonder if killing all these pre-started apps will help.
May 05 11:35:15 <X-Fade> Don't mind if my clock or image viewer takes longer to start ;)
May 05 11:35:39 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: it will no doubt free up some ram
May 05 11:35:49 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: so swapping occurs 'later'
May 05 11:35:59 <X-Fade> Yeah, maybe it is enough though.
May 05 11:36:16 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: but as soon as it starts swapping, you're running into same trouble
May 05 11:36:29 <Dima_Sharihin> And... Can we turn off swap or move it to SD flash card?
May 05 11:36:31 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: it's never enough ram ;-)
May 05 11:36:56 <X-Fade> No RAM is limited.
May 05 11:37:06 <ayanes> Hi
May 05 11:37:08 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: sure we can, at the expense of certain immanent averse effects
May 05 11:38:20 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: e.g. RST38h's fennec would abort then due to ENOSPACE, rather than freezing the system by swapping
May 05 11:38:51 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, oh, what is ENOSPACE?
May 05 11:39:02 <RST38h> Doc: I think the sane way to approach this would be to discuss it with a few nokians
May 05 11:39:04 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: btw swap partition is on eMMC already
May 05 11:39:15 <RST38h> Doc: konttori and ab, for example
May 05 11:39:36 <RST38h> Doc: See what their take is and whether they can hint on some directions for experimentation
May 05 11:39:56 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: well, I'm a *total* noob when it comes to kernel hacking. So that's probably up to somebody else to do that
May 05 11:40:14 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, can we try to archieve application memory? ;)
May 05 11:40:36 <mece> achipa, ok fine I give up. So it's the same with pyqt I guess. Meaning there is no way of making a package work that depend on qt4.6.2 and a python wrapper?
May 05 11:40:39 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: err, WHAT?
May 05 11:41:22 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, try to using .Tar with applications... use less memory by archiving
May 05 11:41:41 <DocScrutinizer> lol, ram-doubler
May 05 11:41:49 <RST38h> Dima: Quick check: Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
May 05 11:41:59 <DocScrutinizer> never seen a proper implementation
May 05 11:42:11 <Dima_Sharihin> RST38h, hm, do you think, that nokia n900 so slow device?
May 05 11:42:28 <Dima_Sharihin> Me too =)
May 05 11:42:29 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I used mergemem back when I had a 4M laptop - worked well
May 05 11:42:38 <achipa> mece: no non-hacky way until the dreaded pr
May 05 11:42:50 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: I'm astounded that nobodies pushed similar into the kernel
May 05 11:43:05 <SpeedEvil> (merge identical pages - copy-on-write)
May 05 11:43:23 <DocScrutinizer> that's in recent kernel!
May 05 11:43:34 <RST38h> Quick check failed.
May 05 11:43:36 <DocScrutinizer> it's called, err......
May 05 11:43:38 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 05 11:43:49 <SpeedEvil> IIRC it's only for vms though
May 05 11:43:56 <SpeedEvil> it cannot be turned on for the whole system
May 05 11:44:02 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
May 05 11:44:12 <DocScrutinizer> see above ^^
May 05 11:44:21 <Dima_Sharihin> RST38h, naturally. I'm programmer... or student
May 05 11:44:21 <DocScrutinizer>  well, I'm a *total* noob when it comes to kernel hacking. So that's probably up to somebody else to do that
May 05 11:44:26 <RST38h> Wait you mean Maemo kernel does not have copy-on-write
May 05 11:44:27 <RST38h> ?
May 05 11:44:31 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: no
May 05 11:44:41 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: mergemem did something different
May 05 11:44:50 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: Start two copies of bash.
May 05 11:45:11 <DocScrutinizer> program text will share same mempage
May 05 11:45:22 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: A sizeable fraction of the pages bash creates are identical - in the newly created copies. - though these have not been loaded from any device.
May 05 11:45:25 <DocScrutinizer> though it's virtually distinct memory
May 05 11:45:44 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: If you merge these blocks into one block, you get an often sizable memory saving.
May 05 11:46:28 <RST38h> of course
May 05 11:46:42 <DocScrutinizer> targeted to servers running zillions of identical processes
May 05 11:47:01 <Dima_Sharihin> SpeedEvil, I think, in N900 programs a very few common pages =)
May 05 11:47:02 <RST38h> but afaik Unix kernels do not do merging, but they do do copy-on-write where forked process starts with the same pages as its parent
May 05 11:47:02 <DocScrutinizer> (like CERN?)
May 05 11:47:22 <RST38h> and only makes copies of these pages when they are written
May 05 11:47:28 <RST38h> so, does Maemo do the same?
May 05 11:47:33 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: yes
May 05 11:47:37 <RST38h> ufff
May 05 11:47:46 * RST38h was kinda scared
May 05 11:47:46 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: that's standard unix, and works as expected with hardware with MMU
May 05 11:48:29 <RST38h> mergemem probably won't do much good in Maemo though. Too few duplicated processes.
May 05 11:48:34 <DocScrutinizer> (grr, MMU. Was the reasin I wasn't able to port minix to my amiga1000 back when)
May 05 11:48:44 <DocScrutinizer> reason even
May 05 11:48:51 <SpeedEvil> It's not only processes - also loaded library per-process data
May 05 11:48:58 <RST38h> Maybe killing off some browserds and Modest processes would do a better job
May 05 11:49:15 <RST38h> Minix did not require MMU
May 05 11:49:16 <Dima_Sharihin> Can we compile own kernel using swap optimising... or it's problem of storage controller?
May 05 11:49:27 <RST38h> In fact, things like Uzix do not require MMU
May 05 11:49:31 <DocScrutinizer> we're quite off topic wrt sanitizing swapping freezes
May 05 11:49:42 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: not quite
May 05 11:49:57 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Merging pages can reduce memory usage - and hence swapping
May 05 11:50:13 <RST38h> Doc,Speed: Well, for that you need at least two components: someone who knows how kernel works and someone from Nokia who can describe the current setup
May 05 11:50:25 <DocScrutinizer> reduce - yeah. but not sanitize
May 05 11:50:27 <RST38h> Doc,Speed: And I do not see either of the two present
May 05 11:50:45 <Dima_Sharihin> RST38h, the latter seems to be difficult
May 05 11:50:55 <Dima_Sharihin> ...and the first too
May 05 11:51:00 <RST38h> Dima: not really.
May 05 11:51:04 <SpeedEvil> Some sane swap-on-flash algorithm that did linear writes only would be good
May 05 11:51:34 <RST38h> Speed: You will probably have better luck changing current kernel policies than implementing new algorithms
May 05 11:51:49 <DocScrutinizer> system freeze on swapping is a nasty effect seen on virtually all machines (at least that's my experience)
May 05 11:52:04 <SpeedEvil> err - no. Current swap algorithm doesn't know that there is a horrible penalty to writing out-of-order on flash.
May 05 11:52:27 <SpeedEvil> As in it can go down to tens of K/second when writing small blocks
May 05 11:52:37 <Dima_Sharihin> RST38h, and what about some kind of "laptop-mode"? Is there anything like?
May 05 11:53:39 <DocScrutinizer> aiui the problem is swapper-daemon is running at high priority
May 05 11:53:40 <BCMM> what is the approximate maemo equivalent of kteatime, i.e. a way to tell my phone to beep in three minute time?
May 05 11:53:48 <BCMM> (well, N minutes)
May 05 11:54:10 <Dima_Sharihin> BCMM, did you try to use built-in reminder in calendat? =))
May 05 11:54:17 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: sleep 180;play-sound  /usr/share/sounds/ui-wake_up_tune.wav
May 05 11:54:39 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise processes that aren't blocked by cache-miss (aka swap in some mem) should run flawlessly during one nasty app causing severe swapping
May 05 11:54:41 <RST38h> Doc: Ok, lowering its priority should not be difficult, right?
May 05 11:54:50 <RST38h> Doc: nice-something?
May 05 11:54:58 <BCMM> Dima_Sharihin: i presume that interface is more geared towards setting reminders at an absolute time
May 05 11:55:01 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: alarmed app
May 05 11:55:24 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: courtesy Shapeshifter
May 05 11:55:26 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: i like the idea, but i was wondering about something a bit faster (maybe doesn't need keyboard)
May 05 11:55:33 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: i'll have a look
May 05 11:55:41 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: there are a couple of stopwatch apps too
May 05 11:55:43 <Dima_Sharihin> BCMM, write your own bash script
May 05 11:56:05 <BCMM> Dima_Sharihin: easy, but needs the keyboard to operate
May 05 11:56:11 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: if you just want a set 3 minute beep - you could hook the above script to a 'queen beecon' widget
May 05 11:56:19 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: press the button, and it fires the script
May 05 11:56:25 <RST38h> "Obama may get personal V-22 Osprey tiltrotor" <=== what a delightfull way to murder the acting president!
May 05 11:56:28 <BCMM> ok, looks like there is are a million and one such systems
May 05 11:56:34 <DocScrutinizer> sure, but alarmed does the job quite nicely
May 05 11:56:42 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: what is queen beecon? a desktop widget to run arbitrary commands?
May 05 11:56:52 <SpeedEvil>  BCMM: yes
May 05 11:56:55 <SpeedEvil> with a silly name
May 05 11:57:20 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: oh, i am so going to abuse SSH keys to give me desktop buttons that make various computers around the country go "beep"
May 05 11:57:28 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 05 11:57:46 <DocScrutinizer> alarmed alarmed alarmed alarmed alarmed alarmed alarmed
May 05 11:58:06 <BCMM> there are so very many
May 05 11:58:07 <DocScrutinizer> maemo's crond
May 05 11:58:18 <Dima_Sharihin> Beeep! maemo programers so severe
May 05 11:58:20 <BCMM> i think i will install the smallest one, then the next smallest if i don't like the interface
May 05 11:58:40 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: test alarmed!!!!
May 05 11:59:11 <Dima_Sharihin> BCMM, of course. On Windows you do other way?
May 05 11:59:17 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: overkill for what i'm trying to do
May 05 11:59:26 <BCMM> Dima_Sharihin: what's windows?
May 05 12:00:03 <Dima_Sharihin> BCMM, Microsoft� Windows�
May 05 12:00:10 <BCMM> that still exists?
May 05 12:00:36 <Dima_Sharihin> =) i don't know. I'm using ubuntu 10.04
May 05 12:00:51 <BCMM> (the only reason i'm having difficulty is that i really need 'eix' on my n900)
May 05 12:01:43 <achipa> Fatal error: Xcache not installed in [path]/includes/class_datastore.php on line 506
May 05 12:01:47 <BCMM> eggtimer: 22k, crash on startup
May 05 12:02:15 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: alarmed won't install, needs newer Qt
May 05 12:02:31 <Dima_Sharihin> BCMM, huh...  it happens
May 05 12:02:50 <BCMM> when that happens, it means they've been developing it for pr1.2, right?
May 05 12:02:57 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=610524&postcount=145
May 05 12:03:05 * BCMM fights the trollish urge to ask
May 05 12:03:16 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: please edit above posting!
May 05 12:03:26 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: was that meant for me?
May 05 12:03:32 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: Shapeshifter: it needs a --force-all
May 05 12:04:01 <BCMM> i do not know what you are talking about
May 05 12:04:01 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: otherwise I woldn't highlight you, no?
May 05 12:04:11 <Dima_Sharihin> BCMM, what is PR1.2? I want why Maemo SDK can't install itself on my laptop... damn nokia =)
May 05 12:04:12 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: is that supposed to be a page of PHP errors?
May 05 12:04:25 <DocScrutinizer> huh??
May 05 12:04:36 * BCMM fights the trollish urge to try and get Dima to ask
May 05 12:04:47 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=610524&postcount=145 is a page of PHP errors for me
May 05 12:04:57 <Stskeeps> BCMM: they're upgradig
May 05 12:04:59 <DocScrutinizer> too bad
May 05 12:05:02 <Surfa> frals, "General error, please contact the author." :)
May 05 12:05:08 <Surfa> quite informative
May 05 12:05:41 <Dima_Sharihin> Surfa, any contacts of this "author"?
May 05 12:06:27 <Surfa> i think frals in the beginning of the line could clear up
May 05 12:06:41 <Surfa> speaking of fmms in this case
May 05 12:06:47 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: apt-get update; apt-get install unzip; cd /home/user/MyDocs; wget http://omploader.org/vNDVoaw/pyside.zip; unzip pyside.zip; dpkg -i pyside*.deb; apt-get -f --force-all install
May 05 12:07:38 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: should fix the needs>=4.6.2 error for alarmed
May 05 12:08:24 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: that link is broken btw, omploader died
May 05 12:08:36 <DocScrutinizer> FFS
May 05 12:08:38 <Shapeshifter> BCMM, DocScrutinizer : use stuff.moritzg.ch/pyside.zip
May 05 12:08:57 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: edit you post
May 05 12:09:01 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: I already did
May 05 12:09:04 <DocScrutinizer> aah, PHP-error
May 05 12:09:18 * DocScrutinizer yawns, then sighs
May 05 12:09:39 * DocScrutinizer then curses pr1.2 crap messup
May 05 12:09:49 <BCMM> looks like countdown timer is about what i want - makes noises, and allows customised presets like kteatime
May 05 12:10:10 <tybollt> DocScrutinizer: what messup? SDK vs fw not being released yet?
May 05 12:10:24 <DocScrutinizer> tybollt: I guess yes
May 05 12:10:51 <tybollt> I understand how developers must get real frustrated about that :-|
May 05 12:11:03 <andrewfblack> doesn't look like t.m.o update is going very well for Reggie instead of Update Info Page site is just down now
May 05 12:11:06 <DocScrutinizer> ask Shapeshifter
May 05 12:11:12 <Dima_Sharihin> BCMM, you made it less than an hour. Tea has colded already?
May 05 12:11:18 <Jaffa> andrewfblack: And forum.meego.com too
May 05 12:11:27 <Shapeshifter> BCMM: what do you need?
May 05 12:11:39 <andrewfblack> Jaffa: Maybe he is rebooting Server
May 05 12:12:10 <BCMM> Shapeshifter: approximately kteatime - counts down then beeps, and you can select some custom preset times
May 05 12:12:14 <BCMM> i use it for cooking
May 05 12:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> yeeehaa!
May 05 12:12:29 <DocScrutinizer> Deprecated: Assigning the return value of new by reference is deprecated in /home/tabtalk/public_html/forums/includes/init.php on line 105
May 05 12:12:32 <hume> hi.... I'm using a N900 and am not very satisfied with the media player, for playing music. Anyone got good advice about a better music player (music on device, not jamedo or other streaming stuff)?
May 05 12:12:36 <BCMM> where are ringtones stored?
May 05 12:12:42 <BCMM> can one even access it from the open file dialog?
May 05 12:12:57 <Shapeshifter> BCMM: ah. okay. well alarmed *can* do that, but much more. For a simple countdown I personally would probably use sleep ;)
May 05 12:13:14 <Dima_Sharihin> hume, download mplayer
May 05 12:13:19 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: depends what you mean by 'ringtones'
May 05 12:13:35 <BCMM> Shapeshifter: me too, but it would be convient to have something that can be operated by fingers if one just wants to use a preset time
May 05 12:13:51 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: for example, the default sound that happens when you get a phone call
May 05 12:13:57 <Shapeshifter> BCMM: wasn't there a tea timer in the repos...
May 05 12:14:12 <BCMM> oh found it
May 05 12:14:18 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, ringtone - is a small mp3 playing on ring or alarm =) Capitan Obvious
May 05 12:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> the file actually used is in some ~user/.local/ringtones
May 05 12:14:30 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: :x
May 05 12:15:03 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: it's copied there and transcoded when you select a ringtone
May 05 12:16:35 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: then there's the default for searching ringtones: ~/MyDocs/.sounds/Ringtones
May 05 12:17:22 <BCMM> i'll certainly have a look at alarmed when 1.2 comes out, but it seems that countdown timer does exactly what i wanted and nothing else
May 05 12:17:48 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: and of course you can select any arbitrary file for new ringtone, as long as it's a wellknown audio format and somewhere in MyDocs or /media/card
May 05 12:18:00 <Veggen> hmm. Anyone know of a location-based alarm?
May 05 12:18:15 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: any further questions/remarks??
May 05 12:18:46 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, no, thanks
May 05 12:18:55 <Veggen> <----would like to be woke up 500 meter before bus arrives at my home/work-stop. I'm rather good at falling asleep, especially if there's a traffic jam so the bus is slow.
May 05 12:19:28 <frals> Scelt: what does the log say?
May 05 12:19:45 <frals> Scelt: it's a catch-all error handler when sending fails
May 05 12:20:08 <Scelt> Scelt: what? where? when?
May 05 12:20:14 <Scelt> hubz
May 05 12:20:17 <Scelt> frals: what? where? when?
May 05 12:20:34 <frals> ops sorry, wrong nick completion :D
May 05 12:20:45 <frals> Surfa: what does the log say?
May 05 12:20:50 <frals> Surfa: it's a catch-all error handler when sending fails
May 05 12:20:57 <DocScrutinizer> Veggen: no, but it surely is a highly needed app
May 05 12:21:10 <X-Fade> achipa: I think I have found the issue.
May 05 12:21:38 <PerfDave> Veggen: That seems like an easy hack. Input co-ordinates of bus stops, use GPS to track whether you're moving towards it, and whehter you've just got within 500m.
May 05 12:21:51 <achipa> X-Fade: tell me doctor, what are it's chances ?
May 05 12:22:10 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 05 12:22:18 <Veggen> DocScrutinizer: I have numerous times woke up 20 meters beyond my bus stop on my way home. Which is, sort of, a disaster, because I then enter a tunnel and end up at bus-distance instead of walking-distance from home. *grmf*
May 05 12:22:32 <X-Fade> achipa: Marius seems to have hacked dpkg-buildpackage in the debian-etch devkit to run optify.
May 05 12:22:46 <X-Fade> achipa: Which is obviously not in the squeeze devkit.
May 05 12:23:14 <X-Fade> achipa: So I'll try to extract the dpkg-buildpackage changes from etch and put them in the squeeze one.
May 05 12:23:15 <achipa> aha... had this hunch the devkit change might be involved somehow
May 05 12:23:48 <achipa> X-Fade: will we need a rebuild of select packages ? or ?
May 05 12:24:01 <X-Fade> achipa: Annoyed :)
May 05 12:24:07 <achipa> :)
May 05 12:24:09 <Scelt> frals: :]
May 05 12:25:29 <achipa> X-Fade: can you scan quickly how many packages are affected ? (I guess every package that used debian/optify and has been uploaded after the change)
May 05 12:25:48 <X-Fade> achipa: No not easily.
May 05 12:26:01 <X-Fade> Anyway, will cost yet another work day.
May 05 12:26:03 <Surfa> frals, i didn't check the logfile yet (as i couldn't quickly enough find it) but it was somehow related that fmms wasn't able to open connection in rude mode once earlier enabled wlan connection didn't get up after first sending
May 05 12:26:06 <achipa> drats...
May 05 12:26:19 <Surfa> frals, after reconnecting wlan manually it works again
May 05 12:26:38 <Surfa> frals, ..and i can't get it reproduced anymore.. :)
May 05 12:27:00 <frals> Surfa: unless you rebooted device or sent/recv quite a few messages the error should still be in the log at /tmp/fmms.log :)
May 05 12:27:10 <Surfa> ok, let me check it
May 05 12:28:00 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: any chances tmo will recover soonish?
May 05 12:28:10 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: Ask reggie
May 05 12:28:11 <achipa> X-Fade: when exactly did the squeeze devkit start ?
May 05 12:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: how?
May 05 12:28:48 <X-Fade> achipa: Around April 16th or so?
May 05 12:28:50 <Surfa> frals, any catch to look for in the logfile?
May 05 12:28:55 <frals> uh, which section should i specify if i dont want my app to be visible in HAM?
May 05 12:29:00 <frals> Surfa: err, sec
May 05 12:29:11 <achipa> X-Fade: and if I give you a list of packages, can you feed them quickly through the autobuilder ? I think I can filter the affected packages quickly via appwatch
May 05 12:29:13 <Stskeeps> frals: if going by how stupid ovi store does it, user/hidden
May 05 12:29:14 <Stskeeps> :P
May 05 12:29:18 <frals> should say "Failed to send message." somewhere
May 05 12:29:29 <achipa> X-Fade: (quickly=without wasting a day on it)
May 05 12:29:35 <X-Fade> achipa: It is not that, replacing is a pain in debian repos.
May 05 12:29:40 <X-Fade> achipa: Basically not supported.
May 05 12:29:52 <frals> Stskeeps: >_<
May 05 12:30:05 <achipa> X-Fade: I see... okay, so I come up with a list and send a notify to affected package maintainers ?
May 05 12:30:18 <X-Fade> Let me see if I can fix it first.
May 05 12:30:20 <DocScrutinizer> hah, IT'S FIXED :-D
May 05 12:30:26 <achipa> X-Fade: ok
May 05 12:30:32 <DocScrutinizer> (tmo that is)
May 05 12:30:52 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: the world is back to normal ! :D
May 05 12:31:07 <Termana> Since when was tmo NORMAL? :P
May 05 12:31:14 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 05 12:32:41 <Surfa> frals, last failure that popped to me was "IAP doesn't exist anymore" which sound related..
May 05 12:33:05 <frals> Surfa: could you mail me the log to fmms@frals.se so i can take a look?
May 05 12:33:16 <Surfa> of course
May 05 12:35:26 <X-Fade> Oh crap.
May 05 12:35:54 <X-Fade> dpkg-buildpackage was a shell script in debian-etch and is a perl script in debian-squeeze.
May 05 12:36:01 <Stskeeps> lovely
May 05 12:36:17 <Termana> X-Fade, and you removed perl? :P
May 05 12:36:17 <X-Fade> not really :)
May 05 12:36:19 <frals> sounds like someone got a fun evening coming up
May 05 12:36:47 <X-Fade> Now i need to awake my rusty perl skills, ugh.
May 05 12:37:25 <achipa> call upon Jeremiah, he's the perl monk in the team, right ? :)
May 05 12:37:55 <Scelt> regexp!
May 05 12:51:17 <X-Fade> achipa: Are you able to submit a test app?
May 05 12:54:36 <achipa> X-Fade: sure am, just a sec...
May 05 12:54:44 <d14> o/
May 05 12:54:56 <X-Fade> achipa: I hope my foo was good enough ;)
May 05 12:55:22 <achipa> hang on, just to wait for my EC2 noe to boot up
May 05 12:55:27 <achipa> s/noe/node/
May 05 12:55:27 <infobot> achipa meant: hang on, just to wait for my EC2 node to boot up
May 05 12:56:03 <mece> err.. architecture.. is it any or all?
May 05 12:56:16 <X-Fade> mece: depends on what you want.
May 05 12:56:30 <X-Fade> mece: if it is a script, like python, then all.
May 05 12:56:35 <mece> ok good.
May 05 12:56:42 <X-Fade> If you want to build it for every arch, then any.
May 05 12:57:00 <X-Fade> But that is for real binaries.
May 05 12:58:58 <X-Fade> achipa: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/vertsms_0.1-1/i386.build.log.OK.txt
May 05 12:59:04 <Khertan> be carreful of any and all ... as if you are using the dh_supportpython wich do a bitecode compilation you ll got some problem if python aren't the same on all arch
May 05 12:59:07 <X-Fade> achipa: Seems to be called tere again.
May 05 12:59:24 <X-Fade> *there
May 05 12:59:40 <Khertan> the same / the same version
May 05 13:00:08 <achipa> X-Fade: aye. EC2 is acting up, so it will be a couple more minutes until I submit abiword et al
May 05 13:03:44 <MohammadAG> Facebook widget updated, hints at something imo
May 05 13:03:47 <DocScrutinizer> is it normal to have >350 pics loaded on a tmo-thread page, or is there something fishy with somehow recursively opening a subframe that points back to an upper frame, while loading the last few pictures?
May 05 13:04:49 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, try reloading the page
May 05 13:04:50 <DocScrutinizer> anyway tmo is thoroughly borked since at least 18h
May 05 13:05:15 <jacekowski> 1800 GMT?
May 05 13:05:52 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: each time I do (and sometimes I have to do often as it stalls eventually), I get even more pictures loaded and then it stalls again on the allegedly last 1..3
May 05 13:06:47 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: since eighteen hours != since 18:00 GMT
May 05 13:07:06 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, Maybe you have very "special" css?
May 05 13:07:19 <DocScrutinizer> no, for sure not
May 05 13:07:28 <Dima_Sharihin> jacekowski, 1800 - GMT+5 ?
May 05 13:08:53 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, I have not touched a n900 =)
May 05 13:09:17 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: huh? so what?
May 05 13:09:25 <DocScrutinizer> this isn't N900 related
May 05 13:09:44 <Dima_Sharihin> really?
May 05 13:14:12 <Khertan> jacekowski, 18th day of the year :)
May 05 13:22:49 <achipa> X-Fade: sending the packages, but drop.maemo.org is s-l-o-w... doing just about 15K/s
May 05 13:23:07 <X-Fade> achipa: Weird.
May 05 13:23:44 <achipa> I'm uploading from EC2, so it's as fat a pipe on my side as it gets
May 05 13:25:09 <jacekowski> achipa: well, i was uploading from my server in france
May 05 13:25:18 <jacekowski> achipa: and i had no problems sending full 100Mbits
May 05 13:26:21 <achipa> jacekowski: it's the same speed from my home ADSL and EC2, so it seems like being bw-limited somewhere
May 05 13:27:44 <DocScrutinizer> tmo is laggy like geotectonics, so if drop.maemo.org is same server domain...
May 05 13:28:02 <DocScrutinizer> or on same backbone, or whatever
May 05 13:28:37 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: Not even the same continent.
May 05 13:28:52 <DocScrutinizer> XD
May 05 13:28:55 <mgedmin> so it must be volcanic ash that's interfering with internet connectivity?
May 05 13:29:11 <auenf> theres still a chance that my PR1.2 pre-installed device comes before the upgrade is released?
May 05 13:29:12 <DocScrutinizer> bad internet weather
May 05 13:29:42 <DocScrutinizer> auenf: you bought in HK?
May 05 13:29:46 <auenf> nope
May 05 13:30:06 <DocScrutinizer> so why you'd assume it comes with 1.2 preinstalled?
May 05 13:30:46 <auenf> cause of bug 7054
May 05 13:30:47 <povbot`> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7054 Cannot set "Regional Settings" to "English (Australia)" or "English (New Zealand)"
May 05 13:31:02 <DocScrutinizer> mmpf
May 05 13:32:52 <X-Fade> achipa: Sorry, was just changing something :(
May 05 13:33:10 <achipa> X-Fade: do you need me to re-upload ?
May 05 13:33:41 <X-Fade> I can resubmit.
May 05 13:34:29 <pupnik> if i ever go to greece, i am STEALING whatever i can
May 05 13:35:31 <X-Fade> I know I don't have to pay for a meal in the greek restaurant anymore ;)
May 05 13:37:00 <tybollt> and here I thought Italy was the moraly corrupt country... apparently 1/3 of the entire greek economy is black labour :):)
May 05 13:37:47 <X-Fade> achipa: Crap, missing semi colon ;)
May 05 13:38:55 <achipa> tybollt: 1/3 ? You optimist !
May 05 13:39:13 <X-Fade> achipa: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/gsfonts_8.11+urwcyr1.0.7~pre43-1-maemo1/i386.build.log.OK.txt
May 05 13:39:21 <frals> bah, paint on my ctrl/sym key has started to come off :((
May 05 13:39:34 <achipa> X-Fade: \o/
May 05 13:39:35 <X-Fade> achipa: Seems to have done it.
May 05 13:40:37 <achipa> X-Fade: resumbitted abiword, too
May 05 13:41:06 <barisione> andre__: does 6859 happen on pr1.1 or what to you using icq?
May 05 13:41:09 <achipa> btw speed just returned to normal, this upload went through with 20+Mb/s
May 05 13:41:38 <andre__> barisione, had that on a recent pr1.2 build
May 05 13:42:14 <barisione> andre__: I think that the underlying issue for the ICQ case and the jabber case could be different
May 05 13:42:22 <andre__> I think the same
May 05 13:42:23 <barisione> I will test later (or tomorrow?)
May 05 13:42:26 <tybollt> frals: If you're shoping for spares - let me know (I need a new screen :-| )
May 05 13:42:32 <andre__> barisione, cool. very welcome
May 05 13:42:50 <frals> tybollt: >_<
May 05 13:43:41 <X-Fade> achipa: Here is the ugly dpkg-buildpackage patch: http://maemo.pastebin.com/c2SZSBp2
May 05 13:46:02 <achipa> X-Fade: you call that ugly ? You have clearly not seen enough perl code XD
May 05 13:50:24 <MohammadAG_> tmo down?
May 05 13:50:30 <mece> http://www.wolfire.com/humble
May 05 13:50:37 <mece> MohammadAG, as usual...
May 05 13:50:47 <MohammadAG_> nvm, it's down
May 05 13:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> frals: (paint) WTF? :-0
May 05 13:55:01 <frals> err, paint/plastic/whatever is on they keys :P
May 05 13:55:12 <frals> s/they/the/
May 05 13:55:13 <infobot> frals meant: err, paint/plastic/whatever is on the keys :P
May 05 13:55:17 <DocScrutinizer> whatever, nasty
May 05 13:55:45 <frals> yes :)
May 05 13:55:47 <frals> :(*
May 05 13:56:03 <DocScrutinizer> frals: is that the black parts coming off, the white, or just the blue?
May 05 13:56:19 <frals> the black came off in a dot in the middle
May 05 13:56:27 <DocScrutinizer> :-((
May 05 13:56:31 <frals> gonna take a picture in a minute once i fixed this bug
May 05 13:57:14 <DocScrutinizer> anyway opens an opportunity to relabel kbd for e.g hebrew etc
May 05 13:57:37 <DocScrutinizer> ;-)
May 05 13:59:05 <DocScrutinizer> hot fix: black edding, then seal with a scotchtape patch
May 05 13:59:20 <tybollt> "edding"?
May 05 13:59:31 <DocScrutinizer> paintmarker
May 05 13:59:40 <DocScrutinizer> no idea what's uded outside EU
May 05 13:59:46 <DocScrutinizer> used even
May 05 14:00:03 <frals> http://irc.frals.se/bah.jpg
May 05 14:00:45 <tybollt> frals: ouch
May 05 14:00:48 <tybollt> how'd that happen?
May 05 14:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.edding.com/de/produkte/uebersicht.html
May 05 14:01:06 <frals> tybollt: no idea... using the keyboard? :\
May 05 14:01:28 <tybollt> the keyboard coating comes off after less than half a year of wear n tear?
May 05 14:01:45 <tybollt> that's incredibly poor quality :(
May 05 14:02:52 <frals> ~nuke talk.maemo.org
May 05 14:02:53 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at talk.maemo.org ... B☢☢M!
May 05 14:03:46 <tybollt> frals: if you go on TMO... I mean... you know what you gonna get - why do you go there? ;)
May 05 14:03:48 * Dima_Sharihin not sure, that infobot is bot =)
May 05 14:04:08 <frals> tybollt: im clicking links :(
May 05 14:04:33 <alterego> frals: was that inflicted damage by some object or wear-and-tear?
May 05 14:04:50 <frals> alterego: wear and tear afaik, not used any object on my keyboard
May 05 14:04:56 <frals> i just noticed it so not sure when it happend
May 05 14:05:17 <alterego> frals: I would have thought it would have been pretty obvious, so it must have been recent :(
May 05 14:05:39 <DocScrutinizer> frals: compare http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10004
May 05 14:05:39 <alterego> I dropped mine at the train station, has a nice graze on the top-left corner.
May 05 14:05:40 <frals> yeah its really obvious so cant have had it for long
May 05 14:05:46 <alterego> Though, it kind of makes it look more rugged ;)
May 05 14:06:08 <frals> DocScrutinizer: hehe
May 05 14:06:27 <alterego> It looks suspiciously like it's from the slide though :(
May 05 14:06:27 <kamui> whats up with the Ogles dep in pr 1.2
May 05 14:06:28 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, how old this keyboard?
May 05 14:06:32 <kamui> anyone fixed that yet
May 05 14:06:41 <kamui> I really want descent :-D
May 05 14:06:51 <DocScrutinizer> heavy use for ~one year
May 05 14:07:00 <DocScrutinizer> when that pic was taken
May 05 14:07:06 <alterego> kamui: PR1.2 isn't out yet, how do you know there's an issue with ogles dep?
May 05 14:07:33 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: my N810 has comparable wear :)
May 05 14:07:40 <alterego> You should see my laptop keyboard ..
May 05 14:08:03 <X-Fade> Yes, there is an ogles dep issue. Will be fixed once PR1.2 is released as it lives in the nokia-apps repo.
May 05 14:08:18 <range> There are only two Lapdogs where I haven't worn out the "n" key from reading usenet and mails: My T40 and my MacBook. :)
May 05 14:08:20 <X-Fade> And that repo will be updated at the same time as the release of course.
May 05 14:08:34 <range> And with the MacBook it is beginning.
May 05 14:08:52 <kamui> X-Fade, so Im just SOL on ogles depending games for the time being?
May 05 14:08:59 <Dima_Sharihin> alterego, we don't want to see  nightmares =)
May 05 14:09:00 <kamui> I have a lot of trouble with packaging
May 05 14:09:08 <kamui> so there isn't shit I can do to fill the dep
May 05 14:09:11 <X-Fade> kamui: I have had that issue for months now ;)
May 05 14:09:16 <kamui> lol
May 05 14:09:28 <kamui> I just got that issue, and its ironic, as I JUST decided to try the opengl descent port
May 05 14:09:39 <DocScrutinizer> frals: anyway, replacing the keycaps mat is rather easy
May 05 14:09:39 <kamui> after months of having but no playing other opengles games
May 05 14:09:43 <kamui> not
May 05 14:10:03 <kamui> oh well, I can wait, 1.2 is pretty damn suite otherwise.  Much much faster than 1.1.1 was for me
May 05 14:10:46 <alterego> The most worn on mine is the 's' key
May 05 14:11:00 <alterego> Which stands to reason as it is the most common letter in the English language :)
May 05 14:11:00 <E0x> i dont see the big deals with 1.2 , almost all thing that 1.1 have wrong the comunity have a workaround
May 05 14:11:02 <alterego> Apparently.
May 05 14:11:03 <E0x> to it
May 05 14:11:27 <Dima_Sharihin> alterego, in russian "Ы"(S in qwerty) too =))))
May 05 14:11:55 <alterego> E0x: the big deal about PR1.2 is Qt 4.6, out-of-the-box. But no, I don't understand the histeria people are having about it. It's rather non-sensical.
May 05 14:11:59 <kamui> E0x, certainly don't see that as a good or bad thing
May 05 14:12:14 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: mine as well only seen english input all the time... still 'e' is most worn
May 05 14:12:15 <kamui> but having a workaround for a busted car doesn't make having a properly working car any less exciting
May 05 14:12:19 <alterego> Especially as the big things that people want, portrait mode, will not arrive with PR1.2, it's not the second coming of Jesus ffs.
May 05 14:12:26 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: plus space and enter
May 05 14:12:53 <alterego> My alt key is more warn than my enter key ;)
May 05 14:12:54 <E0x> alterego: hehe exaclty
May 05 14:12:57 <E0x> exactly*
May 05 14:13:39 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, Shift! but not Caps Lock =)
May 05 14:13:46 <alterego> I think a lot of people expect more from PR1.2 in the way of it being a sign that Nokia aren't dropping the N900 already.
May 05 14:14:01 <alterego> Which I wouldn't even care about. The N900, right now, is amazing.
May 05 14:14:10 <E0x> true
May 05 14:14:27 <E0x> just need more dev for do more "cool" things
May 05 14:14:51 <E0x> but for me is already fine
May 05 14:15:36 <alterego> I have more issue with the bugs on my ubuntu 9.10 system than on my maemo 1.1.1 system :)
May 05 14:15:47 <alterego> I just want Qt 4.6! :D
May 05 14:15:48 <E0x> heh
May 05 14:16:01 <E0x> i am waiting for the qt thing too
May 05 14:16:12 <E0x> i will try do my first app in qt/python
May 05 14:16:19 <alterego> I'm gonna manually install Qt tonight anyway from the devel repo.
May 05 14:16:38 <alterego> As now I'm at the stage when Ireally need to work on the N900 interface code of my application.
May 05 14:16:44 <alterego> As all the back end stuff is pretty much complete.
May 05 14:16:53 <E0x> i want do a offline buxfer app that can sync with your account when is online
May 05 14:17:22 <E0x> for save money of my 3g data plan
May 05 14:17:22 <E0x> :D
May 05 14:18:15 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: (scary FPC B2Bconnector on N900) see there: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00342_jpg.jpeg.html ff - no issue back when
May 05 14:19:05 <DocScrutinizer> probably I really got a lemmon that just incidentally failed when I disassembled it
May 05 14:19:06 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, is it LVDS connector from notebooks?
May 05 14:19:26 <DocScrutinizer> that's N810
May 05 14:20:20 <Dima_Sharihin> Oh, right. Sorry =)
May 05 14:20:32 <X-Fade> achipa: I don't see abiword, did you submit it yet?
May 05 14:20:41 <DocScrutinizer> probably you'd like that link better http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/
May 05 14:20:42 <achipa> X-Fade: yep...
May 05 14:20:54 <fabinader> Does anybody knows how to open two instances of X Terminal on N900?
May 05 14:20:58 <achipa> a good while ago...
May 05 14:21:08 <fabinader> It seems N900 disables me doing that...
May 05 14:21:11 <DocScrutinizer> fabinader: menu of xtern ->new
May 05 14:21:17 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: is the ovi photo sharing service good?
May 05 14:21:19 <fabinader> Ops :p
May 05 14:21:23 <fabinader> Thanks!
May 05 14:21:24 <alterego> At the moment I use facebook ...
May 05 14:21:28 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: PITA
May 05 14:21:50 <X-Fade> achipa: Tarball size doesn't match .dsc
May 05 14:21:51 <achipa> X-Fade: no mail from the autobuilder yet, though
May 05 14:21:57 <achipa> ahem...
May 05 14:22:06 <alterego> I'd like one that I can upload things to and share them with friends privately, or make them publically available.
May 05 14:22:09 <achipa> X-Fade: 2maemo2 ?
May 05 14:22:17 <X-Fade> achipa: 8758975 vs 8522748
May 05 14:23:32 <Mece> hey-oo
May 05 14:23:37 <lcuk> alterego, privacy on the internet?
May 05 14:23:51 <X-Fade> achipa: ah no, missing abiword_2.8.1-2maemo2.dsc
May 05 14:23:51 <alterego> lcuk: is it that ridiculous? :D
May 05 14:23:53 <achipa> X-Fade: duh, wrong dsc file
May 05 14:24:00 <lcuk> alterego, sure it is
May 05 14:24:10 <achipa> X-Fade: yep, resubmitted
May 05 14:24:19 <X-Fade> achipa: Ok, that will help ;)
May 05 14:24:21 <alterego> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=12469954&id=564880600
May 05 14:24:32 <alterego> Sorry, wrong channel :P
May 05 14:25:20 <Dima_Sharihin> hm, facebook... =)
May 05 14:25:41 <fragment> alterego: have you tried flickr?
May 05 14:26:02 <Dima_Sharihin> alterego, or google picasa
May 05 14:26:22 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: ovi supports that
May 05 14:26:30 <alterego> I'm kind of against google services at the moment ;)
May 05 14:26:33 <tybollt> am I the only nerd that did not get FACEPALMbook?
May 05 14:27:29 <Dima_Sharihin> tybollt, no, i'm not registered on facebook too =)
May 05 14:27:56 <BCMM> i hate facebook :(
May 05 14:28:11 <Dima_Sharihin> lol =) i'm using vk.com =(((
May 05 14:28:13 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: you can have several albums and set visibility/perms for each of them. And you can select which album to upload pictures to from N900
May 05 14:28:21 <BCMM> sadly, i know people that organise things that are fun, who can't seem to understand email
May 05 14:29:04 <DocScrutinizer> still it's a pita as creating a *new* album need 30min twiddling via html
May 05 14:30:20 <DocScrutinizer> once that's accomplished, you can upload photos directly, via share button in cam-app / image viewer
May 05 14:32:04 <DocScrutinizer> then you only need to find out about the correct URL to share the album :-P
May 05 14:32:54 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, how fast your internet connection? can уou upload photos direct from camera for a few seconds?
May 05 14:33:15 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 05 14:33:44 * Dima_Sharihin crying. 384kbps ADSL is slow...very slow
May 05 14:34:31 <alterego> The facebook share service plugin is pretty good.
May 05 14:34:47 <alterego> Though you can't create new categories using the share service plugins which is a pain.
May 05 14:36:16 <DocScrutinizer> Dima_Sharihin: see http://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.public
May 05 14:37:42 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, it's your webcam?
May 05 14:38:13 <DocScrutinizer> you're kidding? my N900 : http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10014
May 05 14:39:44 <Dima_Sharihin> =] huh... Where I can get 1000$ to buy N900 too? :D
May 05 14:40:40 <tybollt> nice little dance there timeless_mbp...
May 05 14:46:39 <timeless_mbp> tybollt: dance which way?
May 05 14:47:23 <tybollt> join quit join :)
May 05 14:49:10 <Mece> do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight!
May 05 14:49:46 <MohammadAG__> TypeError: parent should be a GtkWindow or None <--- grr
May 05 14:51:37 <Mece> what's with the joining spree?
May 05 14:52:01 <nid0> netsplits happen
May 05 14:52:05 <Arkenoi> netsplit
May 05 14:52:28 <d14> christmas \o/
May 05 14:52:36 <frals> ~bomb talk.maemo.org
May 05 14:52:37 * infobot drops a humongous exploding nuke on talk.maemo.org
May 05 14:52:45 <frals> fuckin hell its slow
May 05 14:52:50 <d14> :))
May 05 14:52:53 <X-Fade> achipa: abiword: optified 112 entries, saving about 12942 kB.
May 05 14:53:12 <achipa> X-Fade: yeah, seen it, seems to work !
May 05 14:53:43 <X-Fade> achipa: ok, so now what to do :)
May 05 14:54:50 <achipa> X-Fade: sooo... how's that next-gen package promotion/demotion/removal interface going ? :)
May 05 14:55:27 <X-Fade> achipa: Things like this kill progress.
May 05 14:56:15 <achipa> X-Fade: I know :(
May 05 14:57:19 <achipa> X-Fade: BTW Do you want to post a note to maemo-dev about this being fixed or should I do it ?
May 05 14:57:47 <achipa> X-Fade: so we avoid people inadvertently promoting unoptified packages to testing...
May 05 14:58:23 <n900-dk> frals: wee, we got 'reply via SMS' now - thumbs up! :)
May 05 15:00:29 <dymaxion> hey there... is there anyway to use my N900 as a bluetooth headset/mic    my laptop mic doesn't work with Fedora, and I left my normal bluetooth headset back home (away for 2 weeks)
May 05 15:01:39 <dymaxion> this is the closest I found on the forums but no solution http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=618482
May 05 15:03:10 <BCMM> attache an FM radio to your laptop's line in
May 05 15:03:13 * BCMM ducks
May 05 15:03:23 <BCMM> ^attach
May 05 15:04:13 <SpeedEvil> can someone paste the output of grep -r dsme.*mce /etc/event.d/mce
May 05 15:04:14 <SpeedEvil> ?
May 05 15:04:36 <SpeedEvil> I think I may have screwed with mine - and I want to edit the wiki based on reality.
May 05 15:05:37 <markinfo> i am new to nokia n810. Where are files that are shown in File Manager - Audio Clips, Documents etc.   they are not at /home/user.
May 05 15:05:38 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: http://pastebin.com/0jVjmjFi
May 05 15:05:51 <BCMM> markinfo: /home/user/MyDocs
May 05 15:06:06 <BCMM> but the directories have different names from the ones shown
May 05 15:06:25 <BCMM> like .sounds for Audio
May 05 15:06:31 <BCMM> ^Audio Clips rather
May 05 15:07:11 <markinfo> hm - these are hidden directories - like .documents - why?
May 05 15:09:11 <BCMM_> i have no idea, actually
May 05 15:09:20 <markinfo> I have flashed last os2008 to n810 - but there is in Application only few programms - Do i need some repositories?   For example there is no Pidgin.
May 05 15:09:36 <markinfo> to add some repositories
May 05 15:10:01 <SpeedEvil> BCMM_: thanks
May 05 15:10:18 <BCMM_> windows bloody xp...
May 05 15:12:56 <markinfo> how can be decompressed zip file? There is no unzip.
May 05 15:13:33 <BCMM_> "not charging. insufficient power"
May 05 15:13:33 <BCMM_> works fine on same usb port of same computer when running linux
May 05 15:13:50 <BCMM_> you can install unzip
May 05 15:13:59 <nid0> get the nokia connectivity driver installed
May 05 15:14:18 <BCMM_> well, you can on n900 and i guess they work the same
May 05 15:14:42 <BCMM_> nid0 or just MSC mode
May 05 15:14:52 <nid0> one or the other
May 05 15:15:19 <markinfo> How can be installed e.g this : http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/unzip/   it is not able to find it from "Application Manager"
May 05 15:16:44 <markinfo> maybe just oer browser  i will try it.
May 05 15:18:57 <BCMM_> markinfo: it is in extras-devel
May 05 15:19:55 <markinfo> BCMM_,  is it necessary to add repositories?
May 05 15:20:46 <markinfo> "extras-devel"  - in application Manager?   nothing like this here.
May 05 15:23:32 <markinfo> ech - I tried it from web - an it says "Catalogue already installed but disabled. Enable Now? maemo extras"
May 05 15:26:21 <markinfo> now i Have many Programs for choose.
May 05 15:26:55 <RST38h> mo.
May 05 15:27:00 <RST38h> moo..
May 05 15:27:17 <Shapeshifter> markinfo: unzip is not listed in ham. just do apt-get install unzip as root to install it
May 05 15:27:58 <cowbot> anybody have a mlocate/slocate built for n900?
May 05 15:29:09 <Shapeshifter> cowbot: afaik youd need to rebuild the kernel for those
May 05 15:29:50 <markinfo> Shapeshifter, "su" applet requires root privileges, "sudo apt-get"  ask for password. What is the password?
May 05 15:30:06 <cowbot> Shapeshifter: can you give me a hint why?
May 05 15:30:45 <Dima_Sharihin> markinfo, password of sudoer
May 05 15:30:52 <Shapeshifter> markinfo: install rootsh, use sudo gainroot to gain root, then continue as above
May 05 15:31:01 <Dima_Sharihin> by the default, it is you =)
May 05 15:31:32 <Shapeshifter> cowbot: mlocate, iirc, uses a kernel module to monitor file changes or something
May 05 15:33:06 <sECuRE> Shapeshifter: no
May 05 15:33:16 <sECuRE> Shapeshifter: mlocate uses the mtime of folders to determine what needs to be scanned
May 05 15:33:26 <sECuRE> which makes it skip large parts of your filesystem tree
May 05 15:34:04 <Shapeshifter> then it was slocate
May 05 15:34:31 <sECuRE> no, i don’t think so either
May 05 15:34:42 <sECuRE> slocate also seems to be deprecated
May 05 15:34:47 <sECuRE> can’t find it in debian >= etch
May 05 15:36:47 <luke-jr> sECuRE: slocate is deprecated by what?
May 05 15:37:50 <sECuRE> luke-jr: mlocate
May 05 15:42:07 <markinfo> I am trying to connect to the Wlan with WPA2 - EAP type:TTLS, EAP MSCHAPv2. Authentizations fails always. Could it be caused due to missing certificate?  There is option "Select Certificate" but inside is "None" an there is nothing more to choose.
May 05 15:42:38 <markinfo> nokia n810, os2008
May 05 15:46:38 <Treibholz> Khertan: mtodos depends on python-sqlite, is that really necessary? Do you really use sqlite2?
May 05 15:47:05 <Khertan> depends ...
May 05 15:47:08 <Khertan> which version ?
May 05 15:47:16 <Treibholz> Khertan: Version: 0.2.2-1
May 05 15:47:23 <Khertan> hum ... diablo
May 05 15:47:34 <Khertan> so yes
May 05 15:47:40 <Khertan> why ?
May 05 15:47:43 <Treibholz> pool/fremantle/free/m/mtodos/mtodos_0.2.2-1_armel.deb
May 05 15:47:48 <Treibholz> fremantle...
May 05 15:48:48 <Khertan> hum ... from what i remember the fremantle version didn't use sqlite
May 05 15:49:38 <Treibholz> Khertan: http://paste.debian.net/72153/
May 05 15:50:25 <Khertan> Treibholz, yep surely a mistake
May 05 15:50:39 <frals> hmm
May 05 15:50:42 <Khertan> let me look at the source :)
May 05 15:50:47 <frals> 11 thumbs up... 9 days left on quarantine :(
May 05 15:51:03 <Khertan> haha*
May 05 15:51:06 <Treibholz> frals: ?
May 05 15:51:13 <frals> extras QA
May 05 15:52:07 <Khertan> Treibholz, it s a mistake ... mtodos 0.2.2 didn't use sqlite
May 05 15:54:11 <mtnbkr> frals: Hi frals... I just installed the fMMS and when attempting to send an image, after "resizing" I get an error  "Sending Failed: General error, please contact the author"   where do I begin troubleshooting to get you some useful info to go on ?
May 05 15:54:44 <frals> mtnbkr: /tmp/fmms.log is the log, email it to me at fmms@frals.se or put it somewhere i can dl it :)
May 05 15:56:15 <mtnbkr> frals: OK...Will do.  Going through this right now to make sure I did things correctly:   http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS
May 05 15:56:17 <mtnbkr> thanks
May 05 15:56:24 <Treibholz> hmm, how do I force apt to install it anyway?
May 05 15:58:42 <Dima_Sharihin> Treibholz, --force-all ?
May 05 16:00:05 <Treibholz> Dima_Sharihin: then I have to download the deb manually...
May 05 16:00:07 <Treibholz> well...
May 05 16:01:21 <phellarv> Dima_Sharihin: That's not very smart
May 05 16:01:37 <Dima_Sharihin> phellarv, but how do it other way?
May 05 16:01:48 <phellarv> Dima_Sharihin: Don't
May 05 16:01:53 <phellarv> Do it
May 05 16:02:23 <Dima_Sharihin> yes, of course =)
May 05 16:02:29 <Khertan> Treibholz, it s a soft available in extras devel
May 05 16:02:32 <Khertan> it s not finished
May 05 16:02:43 <Khertan> and currently not in active developpment
May 05 16:02:43 <Khertan> :)
May 05 16:02:52 <achipa> is it just me or is this Atom Z6xx announcement ridiculous ?
May 05 16:03:06 <Khertan> achipa, a new atom ?
May 05 16:03:28 <achipa> Khertan: yeah, Moorestown
May 05 16:03:40 <ccooke> achipa: How so? (not seen the announcement itself, yet)
May 05 16:04:20 <achipa> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/05/intel-z6xx-brief-2010-05-0411-18-54-rm-eng.jpg
May 05 16:04:33 <achipa> this is like the washing poweder commercials on TV
May 05 16:05:26 <achipa> the 'other' or 'conventional' washing powder always sucks
May 05 16:05:49 <achipa> but they never say which one exactly is that
May 05 16:06:05 <Khertan> :)
May 05 16:06:06 <SpeedEvil> also - the unlabelled axes
May 05 16:06:20 <Khertan> drain 10x less battery than atom
May 05 16:06:27 <Khertan> yep ... but which atom :)
May 05 16:06:30 <Khertan> the first one :)
May 05 16:06:32 <Khertan> a 2ghz
May 05 16:06:33 <Khertan> :)
May 05 16:06:42 <SpeedEvil> It would have been moderately simple to - for example - pick platforms with poor JIT implemenations
May 05 16:06:55 <achipa> also, says 5 hours of browsing time... but at what battery capacity, screen size ?
May 05 16:07:06 <SpeedEvil> indeed
May 05 16:07:06 <Khertan> comparing webkit and ie :)
May 05 16:07:08 <Khertan> lol
May 05 16:07:22 <achipa> I mean, my desktop can browse for 5 hours on batteries... if they're big enough
May 05 16:07:41 <Khertan> mine can do it during 6 hours
May 05 16:07:43 <SpeedEvil> I can browse for 5 hours on the n900 right now
May 05 16:07:44 <Khertan> using wifi
May 05 16:07:49 <SpeedEvil> maybe more like 10
May 05 16:07:58 <SpeedEvil> admittedly - using lynx, with the screen almost off
May 05 16:08:03 <Khertan> and i think i can more ... but never try :)
May 05 16:08:24 <Khertan> and it s a samsung n130 with ubuntu using firefox without flash
May 05 16:08:33 <Khertan> so a small atom :)
May 05 16:09:11 <Treibholz> Khertan: I was just looking for a todo-list and found your name there :-)
May 05 16:09:19 <Khertan> h�h�
May 05 16:09:28 <Khertan> anyway it ll works
May 05 16:09:32 <Khertan> just the search
May 05 16:09:38 <Khertan> didn't work
May 05 16:09:46 <achipa> plus, they conveniently treat MeeGo as a Moblin variant
May 05 16:09:47 <Khertan> and the sync not ready yet
May 05 16:10:00 <markinfo> what is with Mer Project? is it worth to test it on n810? Or it will be replaced with Meego?
May 05 16:10:02 <Khertan> achipa, this is what meego is
May 05 16:10:34 <Treibholz> Khertan: I didn't expect a sync :-)
May 05 16:10:34 <Khertan> Treibholz, i think you download the deb and do dpkg -i on it
May 05 16:10:44 <Khertan> Treibholz, i think you can download the deb and do dpkg -i on it
May 05 16:10:54 <Treibholz> Khertan: yes, I just did
May 05 16:10:56 <frals> w t f
May 05 16:11:03 <Khertan> but at the time i ve uploaded it ... the python-sqlite was available
May 05 16:11:06 <frals> so when im logged in and browse http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/
May 05 16:11:07 <achipa> Khertan: what is surprising how quickly the Maemo brand was ditched, and yet here we are, Intel still calling stuff Moblin
May 05 16:11:21 <frals> i dont see "package imported", however if i logout i see it
May 05 16:11:44 <Khertan> frals, haha yes ... it s full of bugs
May 05 16:12:00 <frals> logging in again i see latest action "Build succeeded"
May 05 16:12:01 * microlith boggles as his 2.5G connection musters up 14K/s
May 05 16:12:09 <frals> ~curse maemo.org/packages
May 05 16:12:10 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, maemo.org/packages !
May 05 16:12:52 <ioan> hi
May 05 16:16:01 <Treibholz> damn, I could need cron....
May 05 16:16:10 <achipa> wow. cool. You go on talking how you are cooler than ARM as you can decode 30fps 1080p... but in the end it turns out your video card only output 1366x768
May 05 16:17:40 <achipa> max camera limit = 5 mpix, cool, that one's obsolete right out the door...
May 05 16:17:44 <Treibholz> achipa: http://xkcd.com/732/
May 05 16:18:24 * Treibholz would have bought his n900 without camera, if possible (and smaller)
May 05 16:18:35 * kamui wants a bigger screened n900
May 05 16:18:45 * kamui can't fathom why this wasn't a 4.5" device
May 05 16:18:59 <PerfDave> kamui: Like an iPad with a real OS?
May 05 16:19:06 <nid0> because then it'd be a brick that would snap people's legs off
May 05 16:19:12 <Treibholz> well, the n900 is an expensive beta test...
May 05 16:19:13 <achipa> PerfDave: 4.5" iPad ?
May 05 16:20:35 <achipa> okay, so this Moorestown thing is a disaster... the only ones who will be hapy with this is the UMPC crowd... all others, wait for Medfield
May 05 16:21:02 <tripzero> achipa ?
May 05 16:21:03 <hume> hi...I'm having problems with syncing my N900 with Google cal - it used to work but does not any more. Anyone around that can give advice on what to check or try?
May 05 16:21:06 <Treibholz> why would anyone want an x86-CPU?
May 05 16:21:17 <achipa> Treibholz: that's what I said, too
May 05 16:21:26 <PerfDave> Treibholz: Because most software is written for i386 or amd64 CPUs?
May 05 16:21:33 <RST38h> Disaster? What disaster?
May 05 16:21:34 <tripzero> cuz their fast?
May 05 16:21:44 <Treibholz> PerfDave: just recompile it!
May 05 16:21:46 <achipa> PerfDave: and you couldn't run that software on asuch a small screen anyway
May 05 16:22:01 <SpeedEvil> x86 are not fast per watt
May 05 16:22:08 <Treibholz> if it doesn't compile: fix the code.
May 05 16:22:11 <PerfDave> Treibholz: Not all software is free, sadly ;)
May 05 16:22:53 <tripzero> x86 is getting there (performance/watt).
May 05 16:23:08 <Treibholz> PerfDave: which non-free software would you like?
May 05 16:23:12 <evilrob> so has anyone found a time-based or location based profile manager for maemo?
May 05 16:23:20 <evilrob> I'm contemplating putting one together
May 05 16:23:51 <PerfDave> Treibholz: Personally? Not much. For mobile computing devices like the N900, getting Flash seems like big argument in favour of going x86 for a manufacturer.
May 05 16:24:17 <Treibholz> PerfDave: a) flash is a disease b) there is flash on the n900...
May 05 16:24:44 <achipa> tripzero: where ? this just-announced SoC is already inferior power-wise to almost any high-end next-gen ARM SoCs which are not announced, but almost shipping
May 05 16:24:46 <PerfDave> Treibholz: I'll agree with (a), didn't know about (b) - I thought Adobe only made it for i386 and amd64.
May 05 16:24:51 <SpeedEvil> At best a mobile CPU will be a tenth of the speed of a desktop CPU
May 05 16:24:57 <Dima_Sharihin> Treibholz, c) There is a pair of white LEDs. Nothing more ;)
May 05 16:25:08 <SpeedEvil> This makes flash rather slower than you might see on the desktop
May 05 16:25:17 <wall[e]> mypaint http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NRWUGak3PFo/S-Gaol2BX4I/AAAAAAAAAfw/Iq7t4kvXQBM/s1600/30933_111253208916551_100000956174998_62894_7955100_n.jpg
May 05 16:25:22 <wall[e]> (n900)
May 05 16:25:26 <PerfDave> And given that Flash on the desktop is already dog-slow... ;)
May 05 16:25:27 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: not so
May 05 16:25:32 <tripzero> that atom z5xx is 5w
May 05 16:25:48 <tripzero> anyone know what the n900 tdp is?
May 05 16:25:54 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: I'm not talking about cock speed alone.  But slower memory, lack of multicores, ...
May 05 16:26:00 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: some of the Snapdragons are faster than my desktop speed
May 05 16:26:08 <Treibholz> cock speed?
May 05 16:26:10 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: Ok. A modern desktop
May 05 16:26:11 <luke-jr> 1. not all desktops have multicores
May 05 16:26:11 <Treibholz> ECHAN!
May 05 16:26:16 <SpeedEvil> clock peed.
May 05 16:26:19 <Treibholz> :-)
May 05 16:26:22 <luke-jr> 2. some embedded SoCs have multicores
May 05 16:26:24 <SpeedEvil> clock speed
May 05 16:26:39 <frals> mission karmawhore successful, 2:1 thanks:posts ratio \o/
May 05 16:26:49 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: By multicore, I mean in general - huge branch predictors, ...
May 05 16:26:59 <evilrob> .leave #maemo
May 05 16:27:01 <RST38h> tripzero: 3.5 hours at 1320mAh at 3.7V
May 05 16:27:03 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: massive l1/l2 caches, ...
May 05 16:27:17 <RST38h> tripzero: that is TOP figure, mind you
May 05 16:27:29 <tripzero> RST38h, need TDP
May 05 16:27:42 <tripzero> i bet it's around 3-5W at full force
May 05 16:27:46 * MohammadAG__ removes his thanks from frals's posts
May 05 16:27:51 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: I bet the Snapdragon 8X72 line can outperform my desktop CPU
May 05 16:27:51 * frals slaps MohammadAG__ around a bit with a large trout
May 05 16:28:01 <RST38h> tripzero: TDP is an Intel invention afaik
May 05 16:28:07 <RST38h> Makes no sense for OMAP
May 05 16:28:13 <tripzero> luke-jr, you must have a slow desktop
May 05 16:28:16 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: sure it does.
May 05 16:28:23 <luke-jr> tripzero: Athlon64 3200+
May 05 16:28:25 <luke-jr> works fine
May 05 16:28:33 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: You still need a thermal design power to design your heatsinking solution with
May 05 16:28:34 <ml-mobile> ooh, 5 years old
May 05 16:28:36 <RST38h> well, can you run OMAP hard enough that it starts overheating?
May 05 16:28:41 <luke-jr> system only gets slow when I swap like mad :)
May 05 16:28:45 <tripzero> luke-jr, which snapdragon are you comparing it to?
May 05 16:28:46 <Treibholz> flash is a pain on my netbook, too
May 05 16:28:52 * ml-mobile retired his A64 3200 a year ago
May 05 16:28:56 <luke-jr> tripzero: 8X72
May 05 16:29:00 <luke-jr> tripzero: dual-core 1.5 GHz
May 05 16:29:07 <Treibholz> youtube is impossible to watch in HTML4
May 05 16:29:22 <achipa> RST38h: TDP doesn't make sense for Intel chips either
May 05 16:29:34 <tripzero> luke-jr, i'm willing to bet that while it may "feel" faster in some things, you'll find benchmarks showing otherwise
May 05 16:29:54 <SpeedEvil> TDP - as a user-exposed measurement probably does not make sense
May 05 16:29:56 <Arkenoi> seems that youtube assholes are degrading player performance every a few months
May 05 16:30:10 <Arkenoi> don't know why the hell they do that
May 05 16:30:10 <Treibholz> Arkenoi: use HTML5
May 05 16:30:10 <tripzero> how many watts does it consume.
May 05 16:30:17 <luke-jr> tripzero: 2x 1.5 GHz ARM compared to 1x 2.2 GHz x86_64?
May 05 16:30:29 <achipa> SpeedEvil: I mean, people use it compare CPU power draw - and it says nothing about that, really
May 05 16:30:35 <luke-jr> tripzero: why *wouldn't* the Snapdragon win?
May 05 16:30:59 <tripzero> luke-jr, slower clock, not as many instructions, etc
May 05 16:31:14 <ZogG> ahhh
May 05 16:31:23 <luke-jr> tripzero: you're assuming a single thread
May 05 16:31:29 <SpeedEvil> achipa: yes. I agree - as a user you shouldn't generally need to care about TDP - but some sort of application benchmark
May 05 16:31:35 <Arkenoi> the first generation youtube player ran quite happily on 350MHz pIII
May 05 16:31:43 <luke-jr> also, last I checked, 1 GHz *anything* was faster than 1 GHz x86
May 05 16:31:51 <tripzero> the actual frequency of cpu's means little
May 05 16:31:58 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: memory and cache size is _IMORTANT_
May 05 16:32:07 <achipa> tripzero: are you aware that clock has no real connection to number of instructions, plus that ARM instructions are not the same as X86 instructions ?
May 05 16:32:20 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: mobile CPUs typically have significantly constrained memory bus and tiny caches
May 05 16:32:20 <Dima_Sharihin> SpeedEvil, also architecture is important too... x86 is a.....
May 05 16:32:23 <tripzero> achipa, i think that's exactly what I'm saying
May 05 16:33:36 <PerfDave> You can find benchmarks to say just about anything you want to say ;)
May 05 16:33:58 <tripzero> s/benchmarks/statistics
May 05 16:34:05 <SpeedEvil> Dima_Sharihin: Sure. But x86 often have stupidly long predictors, which can mitigate that
May 05 16:34:07 <tripzero> s/statistics/girls
May 05 16:38:08 <RST38h> achipa: TDP makes perfect sense for Intel chips
May 05 16:38:18 <RST38h> achipa: Shows ou how far you can overclock them =)
May 05 16:38:23 <RST38h> s/ou/you
May 05 16:38:49 <tripzero> "[ARM  offer similar performance to the low end Atom chipsets[dubious � discuss] but at roughly one quarter the power consumption..."
May 05 16:39:04 <achipa> RST38h: hehe :) the point is TDP talks about dissipating the generated heat, not about how that heat gets generated
May 05 16:39:50 <Arkenoi> btw is the flash player faster/newer in the leakware?
May 05 16:41:13 <Treibholz> does someone have a /usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/_bsddb.so
May 05 16:42:04 <achipa> tripzero: the point is Moorestown sucks a breakthrough 21mW when idle. Now look up how much an ARM draws when idle
May 05 16:42:32 <tripzero> achipa, agreed
May 05 16:42:36 <frals> Treibholz: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9865
May 05 16:42:38 <povbot`> Bug 9865: Python missing bsddb module
May 05 16:42:49 <tripzero> achipa, i was just curious on what you actual complaint with it was
May 05 16:43:00 <Treibholz> frals: yeah...
May 05 16:43:02 <tripzero> s/you/your
May 05 16:43:36 <Treibholz> frals: this is so stupid....
May 05 16:43:39 <achipa> tripzero: I don't have a complaint - just saying it still has not addressed the issues that prevented it from entering the smartphone arena
May 05 16:44:05 <achipa> tripzero: UMPC people will be happy, as it gains a lot where they were suffering, but others... not really
May 05 16:44:41 <achipa> Arkenoi: yes, but not significantly (mostly security fixes)
May 05 16:44:45 <tripzero> achipa, okay. that makes sense
May 05 16:44:54 <Arkenoi> achipa: still v9?
May 05 16:45:04 <achipa> Arkenoi: yes, 9.0.260 iirc
May 05 16:45:08 <Treibholz> frals: is there another way to access the addressbook with python?
May 05 16:45:29 <frals> Treibholz: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Accessing_APIs_without_Python_bindings, http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Accessing_APIs_without_Python_bindings/More_examples
May 05 16:45:37 * Arkenoi thinks UMPCs sucked big time until finger-friendly systems came out
May 05 16:46:01 <frals> Treibholz: im using it as well; http://gitorious.org/fmms/fmms/blobs/master/contacts.py#line67
May 05 16:46:19 <hume> in the calendar in maemo5, the one shipped with the N900 - how do I clear it fully? Delete it, or does that mess things up?
May 05 16:47:11 <Treibholz> hume: delete * from Components;
May 05 16:47:19 <hume> Trizt, thx
May 05 16:47:22 <RST38h> Arkenoi: ...and the finger friendly systems continue sucking!
May 05 16:47:24 <Arkenoi> achipa: so i guess PR1.2 will be that one too. That's sad, i was hoping to get flash 10 (even it was said it was ported to maemo for a long time, i've seen a mention on TMO that adobe demonstrated 10.1 beta half an year ago on n900 *prototype*)
May 05 16:47:52 <Treibholz> hume: it's an sqlitedb in ~/.calendar/calendardb
May 05 16:47:56 <Arkenoi> rst38h: well, it sucks less than to have destop os on a tablet
May 05 16:48:05 <achipa> Arkenoi: well, if what is being spread on twitter is true, we'll be happy to get 10.1 AT ALL
May 05 16:48:05 <RST38h> Of all people, Arkenoi, why YOU would need Flash 10?
May 05 16:48:12 <hume> Treibholz, ok... now I get it
May 05 16:48:23 <wall[e]> anyone know a test app that can measure pressure sensitivity ?
May 05 16:48:40 <RST38h> Meanwhile: sharky76
May 05 16:48:44 <RST38h> oh wait, no
May 05 16:48:47 <frals> ~curse tmo-posters
May 05 16:48:49 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, tmo-posters !
May 05 16:48:54 <Arkenoi> rst38h: it is faster and stupid rutube wants it
May 05 16:49:05 <Arkenoi> and i am afraid others will follow
May 05 16:49:06 <frals> why the hell dont people even bother to read the first fucking post in a thread :[
May 05 16:49:20 <RST38h> Arkenoi: rutube is useless
May 05 16:50:03 <Arkenoi> yes, but some people send me links to videos hosted there
May 05 16:50:20 <RST38h> Meanwhile: Airlines to enforce more vigorous 'no fly' checks
May 05 16:50:23 <wall[e]> can you measure pressure sensitivity with stylus?
May 05 16:50:35 <wall[e]> i could check
May 05 16:50:38 <Arkenoi> no fly is stupid idea at all
May 05 16:51:21 <Arkenoi> how can you imagine a person so dangerous to be not allowed to fly, yet innocent enough so you cannot arrest him?
May 05 16:51:56 <Arkenoi> achipa: yes, that sucks
May 05 16:53:39 <Arkenoi> achipa: as those rumors are almost certainly true -- i've read the interview they are originating from
May 05 17:04:34 <SpeedEvil> The icelandic people have recently been enforcing a no-fly zone over europe. So anything's possible.
May 05 17:11:15 <GAN900> frals, welcome to Talk. :P
May 05 17:11:28 <GAN900> Gotta love Adobe promises.
May 05 17:14:16 <achipa> X-Fade: if you're still around... abiword did not quite show up in extras-devel (still)
May 05 17:15:20 <MohammadAG> the importer seems borked btw
May 05 17:15:23 <MohammadAG> it's not the only package
May 05 17:15:28 <johnsq> Hi
May 05 17:16:51 <achipa> MohammadAG: on the bright side, at least the packages are getting optified now :)
May 05 17:17:17 <MohammadAG> heh, sent the optified mc into -devel last week :)
May 05 17:17:18 <slonopotamus> johnsq: hai
May 05 17:18:41 <Mece> tiddeli-pom
May 05 17:18:57 <Mece> MohammadAG, what's mc?
May 05 17:19:12 <MohammadAG> Midnight Commander
May 05 17:19:13 <slonopotamus> Mece: midnight commander?
May 05 17:19:47 <Mece> right I figured it out actually. haven't tried it.
May 05 17:20:24 <Mece> i put my epically advanced shopping list app qlister in devel.
May 05 17:21:09 <Mece> frals would understand the cleverness of the name. coming upp with that was the most demanding task.
May 05 17:22:02 <MohammadAG> I don't use mc
May 05 17:22:08 <MohammadAG> someone requested that it gets optified
May 05 17:22:18 <Mece> oh. nice.
May 05 17:22:45 <MohammadAG> same goes for http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51885
May 05 17:22:57 <MohammadAG> I know it runs at 1 fps, since I compiled it before I got the N900
May 05 17:23:03 <MohammadAG> but it's in -devel now
May 05 17:23:18 <achipa> MohammadAG: did you take over maintainership ?
May 05 17:23:22 <achipa> MohammadAG: of MC ?
May 05 17:23:41 <MohammadAG> changed the maintainer in the control file, yeah
May 05 17:23:42 <MohammadAG> why?
May 05 17:23:55 <Mece> MohammadAG is the echo "auto" > debian/maemo-optify  enough to optify an app properly? (perhaps wrong filename, but anyway)
May 05 17:24:27 <MohammadAG> depends on the app, for MC no
May 05 17:24:34 <achipa> MohammadAG: the original dude said to me he's nominating you as maintainer
May 05 17:24:37 <Mece> right, I forgot about wesnoth. I think I got maintainer status on that package.
May 05 17:24:38 <achipa> \
May 05 17:24:48 <frals> GAN900: im still hopeful one day, someone will read before posting ;P
May 05 17:24:53 <frals> Mece: lol
May 05 17:25:10 <Mece> see*, made frals lol :)
May 05 17:25:34 <Mece> totally worth the 4 extra manhours.
May 05 17:25:42 <SpeedEvil> Mece: hopping list app?
May 05 17:25:46 <SpeedEvil> ^s
May 05 17:25:55 <Mece> speedevil, well yeah.
May 05 17:26:21 <Mece> portrait, tick off stuff you've put in cart. that kind of list.
May 05 17:26:32 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 05 17:26:44 <SpeedEvil> no barcode support then? :)
May 05 17:27:02 <Mece> speedevil, unfortunately you cant install it directly due to qt fuckups.
May 05 17:27:10 <Mece> speedevil, no.
May 05 17:27:46 <Mece> speedevil, this was just something I needed so I made it. learned some qt in the process.
May 05 17:27:56 <SpeedEvil> I see.
May 05 17:28:30 * SpeedEvil has people to do his shopping for him.
May 05 17:28:38 <Mece> gonna rewrite it in c++ now that I have a semi working version.
May 05 17:28:56 <SpeedEvil> (admittedly, these are the supermarkets delivery people)
May 05 17:29:00 * Mece has 4 small kids, so he has pretty long shoppinglists.
May 05 17:29:18 <SpeedEvil> Currently shopping ~monthly - which is fun.
May 05 17:31:30 <Mece> speedevil, weekly here.
May 05 17:35:11 <adalal> jus a question, is it voiding your warranty if you undervolt or underclock your device?
May 05 17:35:37 <SpeedEvil> adalal: fundamentally, that question can only be gotten from nokia.
May 05 17:35:55 <adalal> sigh... thanks
May 05 17:36:12 <SpeedEvil> \Underclocking and undervolting devices is not always safe. The hardware is not always stable under those conditions, and failures can occur.
May 05 17:36:31 <SpeedEvil> They are much rarer than the normal overheating/overvolting problems - but they aren't zero
May 05 17:37:39 <RST38h> are they non-reversible failures though?
May 05 17:40:06 <ShadowJK> hm
May 05 17:40:33 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: some yes
May 05 17:40:50 <ShadowJK> anyone running leaked 1.2 rc want to cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness?
May 05 17:40:50 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: I saw one psu that really diddn't like running at low voltage - and died
May 05 17:41:10 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: I would be surprised if this hits the n900 - but...
May 05 17:41:43 <ShadowJK> Silent data corruption would probably be the most annoying I'd think?
May 05 17:42:37 <Mece> shadowjk, noobmonk3y is the most helpful leakywearing foo :)
May 05 17:42:58 <Mece> ~seen noobmonk3y
May 05 17:43:03 <infobot> noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-178-50-44.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20h 34m 29s ago, saying: 'not allways a bad thing :P'.
May 05 17:43:04 <ShadowJK> and crashes from that might not go away by restoring default clock and voltage
May 05 17:43:37 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: that too
May 05 17:43:38 <Treibholz> hmm,listening to a podcast with pannucci AND browsing the web hangs often
May 05 17:43:57 <Treibholz> while the integrated player works fine
May 05 17:44:13 <SpeedEvil> ShadowJK: I have too much crap going on. :/ I want to get n900 setup booting from sd - so I can properly play with undervolting and measurements
May 05 17:44:56 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Actually, I think that the silent data corruption danger is overrated
May 05 17:45:12 <RST38h> ShadowJK: When CPU fails, you usually start getting coredumps
May 05 17:45:13 <Treibholz> isn't pannucci using pulsadio, too?
May 05 17:45:17 <DocScrutinizer> I want a beagleboard musb_hdrc X-P
May 05 17:45:53 <ShadowJK> RST38h, one byte here and there..
May 05 17:45:56 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Any persistent storage that is in the system is so distanced from the CPU and written using so many different protocols, that you do not get data corruption there
May 05 17:46:09 <RST38h> ShadowJK: I mean, not *commonly*, even if your CPU fails
May 05 17:46:41 <ShadowJK> I'm thinking of that area between working and failing :P
May 05 17:47:01 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: don't forget SmartReflex - it might decide to flood the core with excessive current to compensate for the undervoltage, so gates are ticking within parameters. This might cause havoc
May 05 17:47:03 <RST38h> That "area" is usually characterized by random coredumps when running apps
May 05 17:47:09 <ShadowJK> and ubi data passing through cpu during gc :)
May 05 17:47:13 <RST38h> Doc: Smartreflex is off
May 05 17:47:15 <Arkenoi> btw still not a single overclocking-toasted nokia? ;-)
May 05 17:47:23 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: no it's not
May 05 17:47:43 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: Given that people have been doing nasty things to them, and then returning for warranty, they may not come clean.
May 05 17:47:57 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: SmartReflex is a bunch of independent functions both in hw and sw
May 05 17:48:12 <SpeedEvil> I'd love some slightly mangled n900 motherboards to play with - overclokcing statistics would be nice
May 05 17:48:26 * Arkenoi yet to see just a single case of cpu failure that *may* be attributed to OC
May 05 17:48:29 <RST38h> Doc: As I said, Smartreflex is off in N900s and there are hw reasons why it is off
May 05 17:48:46 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: what you call "off" is just the automatics to regulate core voltage
May 05 17:48:55 <RST38h> Doc: oh ok
May 05 17:48:56 <ShadowJK> isn't just vdd1_comp and vdd2_comp off?
May 05 17:49:00 <RST38h> yes
May 05 17:49:34 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: so basically "SmartReflex" is off BECAUSE undervolting caused issues
May 05 17:49:55 <n900-dk> hmm, guess my N900 i broken - can't seem to get Swipe-from-left select-text gesture to work
May 05 17:50:27 <n900-dk> how hard do you have to press outside the screen?
May 05 17:50:40 <DocScrutinizer> not more han inside
May 05 17:50:45 <DocScrutinizer> than
May 05 17:50:50 <lcuk> n900-dk, about 2/3 of the way down is the sweet spot
May 05 17:50:56 <lcuk> just same motino you pan desktop with
May 05 17:51:00 <lcuk> but start from offscreen
May 05 17:51:04 <lcuk> motion
May 05 17:51:26 * lcuk hates hidden gestures on principle tho
May 05 17:51:37 * frals steals lcuks bacon
May 05 17:51:39 <sECuRE> what’s this motion about?
May 05 17:51:44 <DocScrutinizer> what's a hidden gesture?
May 05 17:51:50 <n900-dk> the mouse newer shows up :/
May 05 17:51:55 <ShadowJK> I usually press harder actually...
May 05 17:51:55 * Arkenoi thinks of that gesture as usability fail
May 05 17:52:03 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: here, I'll show you:          See?
May 05 17:52:12 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 05 17:52:27 <ShadowJK> and I had problems after touching the screen calibration app.. it's broken :)
May 05 17:52:41 <Arkenoi> actually a hardware button would be much much better
May 05 17:52:42 <lcuk> i wouldnt mind if there was a way to activate the mode from menu or something
May 05 17:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> I *never* touched screen calib on N900
May 05 17:53:09 * n900-dk has stupid fingers
May 05 17:53:12 <sECuRE> ah, got it working, thanks for the hint
May 05 17:53:21 <Arkenoi> btw is screen calibration fixed in recent titan kernels?
May 05 17:53:37 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, in future when we have embedded touchable computers in regular equipment, like the microsoft barroom thing
May 05 17:53:56 <lcuk> people are going to look more stupid than now because they will randomly click and press inanimate objects
May 05 17:53:57 <RST38h> lcuk: Embedded into what?
May 05 17:53:58 <sECuRE> but it only works in the browser, it seems?
May 05 17:54:06 * RST38h can think of a few... places
May 05 17:54:07 <lcuk> walls and desks
May 05 17:54:18 <tripzero> i want one embedded in my wife
May 05 17:54:18 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: mehehe
May 05 17:54:53 <DocScrutinizer> sECuRE: only browser
May 05 17:54:57 <Arkenoi> secure: conversations as well
May 05 17:55:03 <DocScrutinizer> duh
May 05 17:55:04 <lcuk> tripzero, your wife probably has technology embedded inside her
May 05 17:55:06 <Arkenoi> but not email (and that's stupid)
May 05 17:55:15 <ShadowJK> I guess you can use Sketch, extend to canvas so that it's wider than screen, pick finest brush, then draw finger from outside screen inwards, if line on screen doesn't start right at the left/right edge of screen, gestures will fail
May 05 17:55:27 <tripzero> lcuk, yes, but it's currently "unstable"
May 05 17:55:31 <sECuRE> in xterm, it would be useful
May 05 17:55:35 <lcuk> change the batteries
May 05 17:55:36 <tripzero> needs a firmware update
May 05 17:56:10 <DocScrutinizer> sECuRE: in xterm there's a button
May 05 17:56:13 <ShadowJK> screen calib isn't a kernel issue afaik, there's a fixed screen calib .deb in the screencalib-is+broken thread on tmo :P
May 05 17:56:16 <tripzero> in fact, probably needs a complete kernel rewrite
May 05 17:56:21 <tripzero> the scheduler is all messed up
May 05 17:56:46 <lcuk> consumption society, just throw out the old one and get a newer model
May 05 17:56:54 <sECuRE> DocScrutinizer: i know the paste button, but i am looking for copy
May 05 17:57:24 <ShadowJK> need to paint something first, then copy button will be next to paste button
May 05 17:57:45 <sECuRE> paint?
May 05 17:57:51 <DocScrutinizer> there's the cursor with red bar
May 05 17:57:55 <n900-dk> ShadowJK: it doesn't start sketching at the edge, but a little inside, both on the left and right side..
May 05 17:58:01 <sECuRE> ah!
May 05 17:58:06 <sECuRE> that’s what it is for, thanks
May 05 17:58:32 <ShadowJK> n900-dk, when I do it the same way I do it to trigger gestures, it starts sketching at the edge
May 05 17:58:57 <ShadowJK> note that default canvas is smaller than sceenwidth so you have to extend it first for this test
May 05 18:02:12 <n900-dk> I really cant sketch to the edge, not even with the stylus
May 05 18:03:25 <Arkenoi> i guess we need a) different io scheduler b) explicit memory cache for media player
May 05 18:03:38 <Arkenoi> and c) working ionice
May 05 18:04:04 <Arkenoi> with all that sync and indexer crap running at lowest possible priority -- really
May 05 18:04:06 <ShadowJK> and dedicated swap device
May 05 18:04:30 <DocScrutinizer> how hard is it to get a tmo thread title changed?
May 05 18:05:39 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31921  N900 will not allow USB OTG  -> N900 will now allow USB hostmode  :-D
May 05 18:06:25 <microlith> oh?
May 05 18:06:33 <ShadowJK> got it working or just everyone agreeing it can be done? :p
May 05 18:06:53 <DocScrutinizer> #2 for now :-D
May 05 18:07:11 <wall[e]> what does host mode mean?
May 05 18:07:20 <wall[e]> sorry, I am from '00
May 05 18:07:44 <ShadowJK> wall[e], that you can connect stuff like usb memory sticks to n900 usb port
May 05 18:07:48 <wall[e]> like you can plug a usb keyboard?
May 05 18:07:49 <n900-dk> ShadowJK: now it works! I tried to recalibrate the screen, and now the mouse marker show up, thx! :)
May 05 18:07:51 <DocScrutinizer> just a thread with 75+ pages and THAT title like it's now is hardly attracting anybody
May 05 18:08:01 <wall[e]> ShadowJK, cool.
May 05 18:08:17 <RST38h> Doc: Eh?
May 05 18:08:31 <wall[e]> ok, done with this. no more mypaint!
May 05 18:08:49 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: why eh?
May 05 18:09:29 <wall[e]> ShadowJK, will a keyboard work?
May 05 18:09:43 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: it will
May 05 18:09:48 <wall[e]> I just bought bluetooth kb for no reason!
May 05 18:09:57 * wall[e] sobs on DocScrutinizer's shoulder.
May 05 18:10:23 <DocScrutinizer> nah, you'll need it for a short while, until the kernel driver is fixed
May 05 18:10:33 <wall[e]> ok
May 05 18:11:01 <Arkenoi> wall[e]: dealextreme?
May 05 18:11:09 <wall[e]> Arkenoi, mx5500
May 05 18:11:30 <wall[e]> but the mouse rocks, well, thinking about it i feel much better.
May 05 18:12:00 <Arkenoi> damn it is expensive one ;-)
May 05 18:12:05 <wall[e]> the mouse has freaking gear!
May 05 18:12:06 <MohammadAG> I wonder if there are USB controlled Javelins
May 05 18:12:13 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: yes
May 05 18:12:28 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: LOOOOOL
May 05 18:12:51 * MohammadAG reads a how to write kernel drivers from scratch, need to get this asap! :P
May 05 18:12:52 <SpeedEvil> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Striker-II-USB-Laser-Guided-Missile-Launcher-3-Missiles-/110528746620?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bc06d47c
May 05 18:13:03 * MohammadAG closes the how to
May 05 18:13:05 * ioeee saluda pero poquito que me canso o/
May 05 18:13:06 <wall[e]> Arkenoi, a quarter of my month salary :S
May 05 18:13:25 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, would that rotate around the globe twice? :P
May 05 18:13:36 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vUdY2gtYjI
May 05 18:13:53 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: If you launch it really high up - sure
May 05 18:15:02 <wall[e]> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30142075@N00/4582060528/
May 05 18:15:09 <Arkenoi> wall[e]: too much for me to buy with "no reason". it seems nice, though. i prefer cheap BTCs, anyways.
May 05 18:15:15 <wall[e]> finished, sorry keep posting wip
May 05 18:15:31 <wall[e]> Arkenoi, i got it for the mouse
May 05 18:15:45 <wall[e]> it has special gear that allow free spinning like for 10 seconds
May 05 18:15:52 <wall[e]> so you can scroll large page with ease
May 05 18:16:19 <wall[e]> and i need extra buttons for 3d work
May 05 18:16:53 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, a real fun with N900 and hostmode
May 05 18:17:02 <wall[e]> cool
May 05 18:17:16 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: is it working?
May 05 18:17:18 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, how high? :)
May 05 18:17:24 <wall[e]> i still have a camera for the hole
May 05 18:17:30 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: almost ;-P
May 05 18:17:53 <jacekowski> shame that i can only do some real hacking on saturday
May 05 18:18:10 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: we are 100% sure how we put it to work (well, except the bme part)
May 05 18:18:37 <DocScrutinizer> aah, btw... who's got a beagleboard?
May 05 18:19:37 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen javispedro
May 05 18:19:37 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: Around 200000km
May 05 18:19:39 <infobot> javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 1h 51m 46s ago, saying: 'oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it.'.
May 05 18:19:46 <MohammadAG> I'll tell you when I know what a beagleboard is
May 05 18:19:46 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
May 05 18:20:00 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: #edev
May 05 18:20:03 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: arm development board
May 05 18:20:12 <jacekowski> marcels: with same soc as n900
May 05 18:20:15 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: ^
May 05 18:20:21 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you know the community?
May 05 18:20:21 <MohammadAG> oh
May 05 18:20:30 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: and very similiar peripherials
May 05 18:20:35 <SpeedEvil> bo
May 05 18:20:37 <SpeedEvil> no
May 05 18:20:47 <MohammadAG> basically, an N900 with official OTG
May 05 18:20:55 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, send him a PM
May 05 18:21:00 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: actually - I recall vaguely there may be a #beagle
May 05 18:21:04 <SpeedEvil> or something
May 05 18:21:04 <MohammadAG> he's online
May 05 18:21:21 <DocScrutinizer> I'd guess some 2..5 ppl here in should have both N810 and beagleboard
May 05 18:34:34 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: pong
May 05 18:35:06 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: heh :-D
May 05 18:35:07 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: what happened?
May 05 18:35:31 <DocScrutinizer> just wondered how much you could help with hostmode
May 05 18:36:00 <javispedro> so far, not at all, I'm just trying to follow.
May 05 18:36:19 <DocScrutinizer> do you know anybody with a beagleboard?
May 05 18:36:40 <javispedro> there MUST be somebody here with one.
May 05 18:36:47 <DocScrutinizer> I bet
May 05 18:37:04 <javispedro> http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs/index.php?date=2009-02-17#T14:58:33
May 05 18:37:09 <lcuk> keesj has one agaik
May 05 18:37:09 <DocScrutinizer> alas he didn't rise his hand when I asked 10 min ago
May 05 18:37:11 <lcuk> :P
May 05 18:37:37 <javispedro> I've been diffing nokia kernel to both upstream and linux omap
May 05 18:37:45 <javispedro> upstream generates an insane 300k diff
May 05 18:37:49 <javispedro> 300klines
May 05 18:38:03 <javispedro> linux omap is also insane but I see some files have been renamed and moved around mostly
May 05 18:38:28 <javispedro> for example twl3040 stuff from /drivers/i2c/chips to its current positions in n900 kernel
May 05 18:38:35 <DocScrutinizer> 300k LINES??
May 05 18:38:41 <DocScrutinizer> duh bro
May 05 18:39:33 <javispedro> I want to prove my point, which is that modifications in the usb subsystem vs beagleboard kernel are minimal
May 05 18:40:04 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: I'd be really curious about the diffs in /source/kernel/drivers/usb/* from maemo to whatever beagleboard runs
May 05 18:40:26 <DocScrutinizer> lol, yea
May 05 18:41:38 <javispedro> seems that they merged some stuff from a more recent linux-omap kernel than 2.6.28, since some TI copyrights are newer.
May 05 18:41:52 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: Stskeeps: we should start an initiative to open up bme now, concurrently. We need it for hostmode now
May 05 18:42:18 <javispedro> and quite a lot of differences are cleaning and refactoring stuff which I really doubt Nokia did for a n900-only branch :D
May 05 18:42:36 * wall[e] wonders if he could sell mx5500 w/o the mouse
May 05 18:42:51 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: who's 'they' 2 lines above?
May 05 18:43:04 <javispedro> @nokia
May 05 18:43:09 <DocScrutinizer> aah k
May 05 18:43:21 <javispedro> there's mostly a single person behind the changes, seems.
May 05 18:43:52 <javispedro> (as listed in http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/otg/twl4030-usb.c )
May 05 18:44:18 <DocScrutinizer> I *wonder* if beagleboard would go to hostmode on 'echo host >mode'
May 05 18:44:36 <DocScrutinizer> or maybe echo b_host..." or whatever
May 05 18:44:42 <javispedro> according to that linked irc conversation from above, NOT. it needs a reboot.
May 05 18:44:52 <javispedro> ( http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs/index.php?date=2009-02-17#T14:58:33 )
May 05 18:45:32 <javispedro> <sakoman> "Inserting an OTG cable does not trigger a switch to host mode" (and this is around 2 months old...)
May 05 18:47:07 <DocScrutinizer> err really? 2009-02-17#T14:58:33
May 05 18:47:17 <javispedro> ep, touché, sorry.
May 05 18:48:09 <javispedro> wonder if situation improved, cause the driver didn't...
May 05 18:48:32 <DocScrutinizer> hmm :-S
May 05 18:48:53 <DocScrutinizer> no changes in beagleboard usb driver since >1 year then?
May 05 18:49:01 <javispedro> the ti+nokia copyrighted one got merged in 2.6.33
May 05 18:49:03 <javispedro> http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/usb/otg/twl4030-usb.c
May 05 18:49:44 <javispedro> I didn't diff extensively, but from a quick look, it has better error handling and that's about it.
May 05 18:50:29 <javispedro> also btw note there's something interesting there
May 05 18:50:37 <javispedro> I would forget about the a_idle b_idle stuff
May 05 18:50:39 <DocScrutinizer> I friggin wonder how they can publish a twl4030 driver, while N900 is using bq24150 and bme instead of 4030 chargepump, and 1707 instead of 4030 phy
May 05 18:50:42 <javispedro> since it comes from the linkstat function
May 05 18:50:56 <javispedro> and that function just reads STS_HARDWARE_CONDITIONS twl3040 reg
May 05 18:51:06 <javispedro> and will only say a_idle if ID pin bit is asserted.
May 05 18:51:13 <javispedro> which is something we cannot do.
May 05 18:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> basically twl4030 isn't involved at all on N900 usb XP
May 05 18:51:40 <Stskeeps> sts hardware?
May 05 18:51:47 <javispedro> sts_hw_conditions :)
May 05 18:51:51 <Stskeeps> i never fail
May 05 18:51:56 <javispedro> :)
May 05 18:52:27 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: (a_idle) that's OTG
May 05 18:52:40 <DocScrutinizer> we don't want OTG
May 05 18:52:53 <DocScrutinizer> we want forced host_ONLY mode
May 05 18:53:03 <javispedro> yeah, but it means we'll never see anyother than "b_idle" in that procfs file
May 05 18:53:17 <javispedro> EVEN if for some magical reason host mode worked.
May 05 18:53:51 <DocScrutinizer> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c#2010
May 05 18:54:56 <javispedro> I am talking about this one
May 05 18:54:57 <javispedro> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c#445
May 05 18:55:00 <javispedro> and
May 05 18:55:07 <javispedro> http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/otg/twl4030-usb.c#355
May 05 18:55:10 <DocScrutinizer> if (sysfs_streq(buf, "host"))   ... else if (sysfs_streq(buf, "peripheral")) ... else if (sysfs_streq(buf, "otg"))
May 05 18:55:55 <javispedro> yes, you're talking about WRITING it, I'm talking about what we read from it :)
May 05 18:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> heh :-D
May 05 18:57:08 <javispedro> so
May 05 18:57:15 <javispedro> we're to assume that the twl4030 is incomplete.
May 05 18:57:21 <javispedro> *twl3040 driver.
May 05 18:57:32 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: anyway there's quite obviously something fishy about that. We should just echo host >mode and here we go
May 05 18:57:40 <javispedro> (unless definite proof from a beagleboard owner..)
May 05 18:57:51 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 05 18:58:26 <tybollt> frade: way to go!
May 05 18:58:28 <DocScrutinizer> and I bet there has to be a somewhat more complete version somewhere
May 05 18:58:42 <javispedro> which I cannot find :8
May 05 18:58:59 <DocScrutinizer> I hoped for beagleboard
May 05 18:59:13 <SpeedEvil> I wonder if it's worthwhile ailing the people mentioned in the copyright strings
May 05 18:59:21 <javispedro> I wondered that too.
May 05 18:59:22 <SpeedEvil> mailing
May 05 18:59:25 <javispedro> Specially the Nokian?
May 05 18:59:27 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 05 19:00:08 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: that's your job though, I'd say. Best chances to get something out of it (or Stskeeps )
May 05 19:00:18 <javispedro> for example the isp1301 driver logic is much more complex, not as easy as twl3040-usb's "is pin bit asserted => a_idle else b_idle."
May 05 19:00:42 <DocScrutinizer> yes, I looked nto that
May 05 19:01:06 <DocScrutinizer> that's exactly the ID pin initial thing
May 05 19:01:10 <DocScrutinizer> for OTG
May 05 19:01:39 <DocScrutinizer> we schould be able to grab that and rewrite for 4030/1707
May 05 19:02:12 <javispedro> seems like a plan :P
May 05 19:03:00 <DocScrutinizer> I mean the basic USB protocols and foo are same for 1707 and 1303
May 05 19:03:05 <DocScrutinizer> err 1301
May 05 19:03:09 <RST38h> Has it been confirmed that USB host is hw-wise possible on the N900 though?
May 05 19:03:16 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 05 19:03:29 <RST38h> when? =)
May 05 19:03:37 <DocScrutinizer> there's not the slightest doubt in that
May 05 19:03:51 <DocScrutinizer> during the last 7 days
May 05 19:05:16 <javispedro> in my limited experience I'm starting to agree with that prediction. only possible bummer is that isp1707a needs id pin for anything, and that doesn't seem to be the case from reading similar datasheets..
May 05 19:05:40 <DocScrutinizer> the SoC (the musb if in soc) can evidently do hostmode, see beagleboard. the 1707 has no restrictions why it couldn't work in hostmode as well, as actually it's mostly agnostic of any mode
May 05 19:05:50 <javispedro> *would be that...
May 05 19:06:57 <DocScrutinizer> except for switching pullup/pulldown resistors, and those are configurable via already spotted bits in a register
May 05 19:07:05 <DocScrutinizer> inside 1707
May 05 19:07:12 <DocScrutinizer> not related to ID pin
May 05 19:07:19 <SpeedEvil> the only wrinkle would be if enough is in hardware that the USB MAC requires the ID pin before doing the turnaround in firmware. But that seems not to be the case - see the forced host mode
May 05 19:07:43 <SpeedEvil> I can't see any reason why - apart from unnoticed erratas - that it shouldn't work.
May 05 19:08:22 <DocScrutinizer> exactly, please let's forget about the ID pin. It's absolutely strictly for detecting A/B-end of a USB-OTG cable *only*
May 05 19:08:33 <wall[e]> how do I check which package spent most disk space in / ?
May 05 19:08:43 <wall[e]> in certain partition
May 05 19:08:54 <wall[e]> now my root is full
May 05 19:09:07 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: du / | sort -n
May 05 19:09:19 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: The wrong way (that I use is to install gnu-find) then find / -mount -ctime -20 -size +100k
May 05 19:09:36 <wall[e]> shouldn't it be something to do with dpkg?
May 05 19:09:39 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: this finds all files newer than 20 days that are on the root and >100k
May 05 19:09:41 * javispedro remembers the PXA usb controller... it was much easier.
May 05 19:09:56 <wall[e]> ah good idea
May 05 19:09:58 <SpeedEvil> and yes - it would be nice if dpkg can output it - I don't think what's on the phone can output that
May 05 19:10:16 <wall[e]> dpkg -l pipe to du some how?
May 05 19:10:23 <wall[e]> tracing individual packages
May 05 19:10:29 <wall[e]> may be it's good for an app?
May 05 19:10:30 <DocScrutinizer> dudes, I need breakfast err dinner
May 05 19:10:39 <javispedro> me too, seeya
May 05 19:10:42 * DocScrutinizer waves
May 05 19:10:45 * wall[e] waves
May 05 19:10:56 <wall[e]> good luck home mode!
May 05 19:11:22 <wall[e]> make me waste my bt kb! if that make you feel happy!
May 05 19:11:29 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: geenerally find works well - it's usually pretty clear where the packages are coming from.
May 05 19:11:42 <SpeedEvil> the files
May 05 19:11:56 <wall[e]> ok, thanks
May 05 19:11:58 <wall[e]> let me try
May 05 19:12:48 * wall[e] installs gnu-find
May 05 19:17:15 <dhq> is there any map software update
May 05 19:20:16 <SpeedEvil> you mean to ovi maps?
May 05 19:23:15 <MohammadAG> python is a pain in the ass
May 05 19:23:24 <MohammadAG> o/ crashanddie
May 05 19:23:32 <dhq> SpeedEvil: yes
May 05 19:23:51 <dhq> but this one doesnt even get connected it take long timr to lock on
May 05 19:24:39 <SpeedEvil> you have an internet connection?
May 05 19:24:49 <dhq> no internet on my mobile
May 05 19:24:55 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 05 19:25:52 <dhq> i spent my 2 months salary on this phone and was upset when i got it and the mas dint work :(
May 05 19:25:53 <SpeedEvil> Getting a lock in a place with a clear view of the sky and no stored data may take several minutes the first time.
May 05 19:26:14 <dhq> it take like 10 mins everytime
May 05 19:26:16 <SpeedEvil> It shouldn't take that amount of time nearly if you use it regularly after that though
May 05 19:26:20 <SpeedEvil> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026
May 05 19:26:21 <povbot`> Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view
May 05 19:26:31 <SpeedEvil> commenting on that bug with your experiences may be helpful.
May 05 19:26:37 <SpeedEvil> sorry - adk
May 05 19:26:38 <E0x> crazy thing spent 2 months salaray in a phone
May 05 19:26:38 <SpeedEvil> afk
May 05 19:27:05 <dhq> E0x: what to do i had an old phone and wanted a really good phone
May 05 19:27:37 <jacekowski> still, 2 months salary on a phone
May 05 19:28:08 <E0x> dhq: that don't justified spend that amount of money
May 05 19:28:24 <Arkenoi> even 9000 did not cost me that much ;-)
May 05 19:28:36 <jacekowski> if i could save 2 months salary
May 05 19:28:38 <Arkenoi> but one month it was
May 05 19:28:48 <jacekowski> i would be a rich man
May 05 19:28:54 <E0x> jacekowski: me too
May 05 19:29:45 <dhq> well i know but, had to get this phone cauz it was the best linux phone
May 05 19:30:05 <dhq> when will the new ovimaps come to this phone
May 05 19:30:21 <jacekowski> besides, n900 is like £500
May 05 19:30:25 <E0x> you have plan of do some developepment on it ?
May 05 19:30:34 <E0x> because i don't see the point then
May 05 19:30:41 <dhq> lol
May 05 19:31:11 <dhq> well its just a personal thing i guess ......
May 05 19:31:53 <SpeedEvil> It's a valid bug - can we try to focus on helping?
May 05 19:32:15 <E0x> please..
May 05 19:32:18 <Arkenoi> 9000 was $3k here when launched, though it was about twice its price in finland, i surely did not pay that much
May 05 19:34:08 <dhq> hmmm
May 05 19:34:59 <dhq> so no new ovimaps or anyother map software there
May 05 19:35:09 <E0x> maep
May 05 19:36:06 <dhq> ok will try that
May 05 19:39:31 <dhq> ok am of to bed see you guys tommoro .... Goodnight all
May 05 19:40:21 <dhq> and when i connect to a wifi network my phone restarts at various intervals
May 05 19:41:15 <E0x> restart ?
May 05 19:41:32 <E0x> hmm
May 05 19:41:45 <dhq> yes the phone just reboots
May 05 19:42:19 <jacekowski> looks like wd rebooting it
May 05 19:42:34 <dhq> wd??
May 05 19:43:06 <jacekowski> watchdog
May 05 19:43:19 <dhq> so what do i do
May 05 19:43:30 <E0x> do you have the laste maemo update ?
May 05 19:43:36 <dhq> yes
May 05 19:44:08 <E0x> menu->settings->about: Version: ..
May 05 19:44:12 <E0x> what say ?
May 05 19:44:26 <dhq> 3.2010.02.-8.003
May 05 19:44:55 <E0x> hmm
May 05 19:45:00 <E0x> 003 ?
May 05 19:45:11 <dhq> this is what is there
May 05 19:45:17 <E0x> i have 002 and not show more update available
May 05 19:45:48 <dhq> i use the middleeast firmware
May 05 19:46:38 <lcuk> afaik 003 is the HW variant and not relating to a newer version
May 05 19:47:02 <E0x> ok
May 05 19:56:56 <MohammadAG> is there any way to send key strokes using terminal?
May 05 19:57:34 <sECuRE> not sure if it works on the n900, but on X you have xtest
May 05 19:57:38 <_llll_> send them where? echo?
May 05 19:57:46 <sECuRE> you can use it to generate keyboard/mouse events
May 05 20:02:15 <wall[e]> send keystroke to where?
May 05 20:02:37 <wall[e]> ah to any window?
May 05 20:02:52 <wall[e]> yes but need the window id
May 05 20:03:23 <Cabletwitch> Aha.
May 05 20:04:51 <Cabletwitch> Oh knowledgable people, I come to thee with a problem of the most basic nature... but I'm a numpty, and cant seem to find the bloody answer.
May 05 20:05:48 <Cabletwitch> I want to remove that plugin which seems to come bundled with xchat, but apparently need root to be able to actually do anything to it.
May 05 20:06:10 <microlith> bundled plugin?
May 05 20:06:15 <Cabletwitch> Despite trying various things, I dont seem to be successful when trying to gain it.
May 05 20:06:46 <microlith> first, what plugin might you be referring to?
May 05 20:06:58 <Cabletwitch> Yeah, some annoying notification plugin. Lets you know when someone talks to you when you're not focussed on xchat.
May 05 20:07:34 <microlith> oh, I don't think that's a plugin :)
May 05 20:07:49 <PhonicUK> hey all
May 05 20:08:10 <Cabletwitch> I unload it manually at startup, but I'd much rather is was gone for good.
May 05 20:08:33 <Cabletwitch> I can unload it on the plugin menu?
May 05 20:08:38 <TriztN900> timeless_mbp: today I got another update of gb localization and it seems to be for pr1.2 which gives estetical faults on 1.1.1
May 05 20:09:06 <jacekowski> pr 1.2?
May 05 20:09:20 <jacekowski> is it released?
May 05 20:09:22 <Arkenoi> btw what does "minimize to tray" xchat option do?
May 05 20:09:33 <microlith> Cabletwitch: yeah, it's in there. didn't realize it
May 05 20:09:43 <microlith> Arkenoi: nothing on maemo
May 05 20:10:01 <Cabletwitch> Microlith: I located it eventually, but cant do anything with it without root.
May 05 20:10:08 <TriztN900> jacekowski: only for those in Uganda
May 05 20:10:19 <microlith> Cabletwitch: I just unloaded it on mine without issue
May 05 20:10:25 <jacekowski> why niggers get it sooner
May 05 20:10:32 <Cabletwitch> Ideally, the plugins folder should be user accessible without requiring admin access.
May 05 20:10:56 <TriztN900> jacekowski: for they dont nag about it being late
May 05 20:10:58 <Cabletwitch> Microlith: Oh, I can unload it. I just want to remove it permenantly
May 05 20:11:07 <microlith> Cabletwitch: plugins are system wide, let me check something real quick
May 05 20:11:14 <Cabletwitch> Sure.
May 05 20:11:52 <Cabletwitch> I'm still very new to messing with the device in this capacity, so while it might be a trivial thing, its still over my head right now :O)
May 05 20:12:19 <microlith> Cabletwitch: no problem, it's worth it :)
May 05 20:12:45 <microlith> the plugin is part of the xchat package, so I recommend against removing it for fear of breaking the package
May 05 20:13:03 <microlith> however, to get root you should install the "rootsh"package
May 05 20:13:14 <Cabletwitch> I'm never going to make a programmer, I've not got the head for it. But knowing how to break/unbreak it on a more technical level could be useful.
May 05 20:13:30 <Cabletwitch> I belive I have the rootsh package.
May 05 20:13:34 <microlith> ok
May 05 20:13:38 <microlith> open up the terminal
May 05 20:13:42 <microlith> and type "root"
May 05 20:13:54 <Cabletwitch> one sec...
May 05 20:14:22 <Cabletwitch> You're joking me? That easy?
May 05 20:14:26 <microlith> yes
May 05 20:14:27 <microlith> tha teasy
May 05 20:14:39 <Cabletwitch> Whats with the whole sudo gainroot crap then? XD
May 05 20:14:54 <microlith> was used on previous internet tablets, iirc
May 05 20:14:56 <Cabletwitch> I think the maemo.org wiki needs updating
May 05 20:15:16 <Cabletwitch> Damn, dont I feel like a twat now XD
May 05 20:15:42 <Cabletwitch> Now, how long does root access last, until I close the terminal, or reboot?
May 05 20:15:53 <microlith> type "exit"
May 05 20:16:02 <microlith> or close the terminal
May 05 20:16:13 <Cabletwitch> And, can I use the graphical GPE file manager to do the business?
May 05 20:16:31 <microlith> dunno
May 05 20:16:38 <PhonicUK> Cabletwitch, CuteExplorer is more finger friendly
May 05 20:16:39 <Cabletwitch> I presume that would have the same privs, no?
May 05 20:16:46 <Jaffa> Cabletwitch: 'root' is (roughly) a asynonym to "sudo gainroot" provided by rootsh
May 05 20:17:08 <Jaffa> s/a asy/a sy/
May 05 20:17:09 <infobot> Jaffa meant: Cabletwitch: 'root' is (roughly) a synonym to "sudo gainroot" provided by rootsh
May 05 20:17:14 <Cabletwitch> CuteExplorer wasnt there when I grabbed the GPE one.
May 05 20:17:26 <Cabletwitch> Cheers Jaffa
May 05 20:17:26 <PhonicUK> apt-get install cuteexplorer
May 05 20:17:38 <PhonicUK> as root
May 05 20:17:50 <PhonicUK> i like it a lot :)
May 05 20:18:03 <Cabletwitch> I'll do that when I'm on the wifi, using gprs currently.
May 05 20:18:24 <PhonicUK> its pretty small
May 05 20:18:29 <PhonicUK> you'd be fine getting it over 2G
May 05 20:18:36 <Cabletwitch> But cheers chaps, you've sorted my conundrum out :O)
May 05 20:24:23 <PhonicUK> anyone know if theres a Q2 port that uses OpenGL ES?
May 05 20:26:30 <tybollt> lovely greece - you folks are fucked :)
May 05 20:26:32 <PhonicUK> or Q1 for that matter
May 05 20:27:56 <Jaffa> PhonicUK: Does the Q2 port for Maemo 5 use s/w rendering?
May 05 20:28:21 <PhonicUK> AFAIK
May 05 20:29:50 <MohammadAG> <Arkenoi> btw what does "minimize to tray" xchat option do?
May 05 20:30:05 <MohammadAG> it minimizes to the tray
May 05 20:30:05 <MohammadAG> (get the notification tray app for that)
May 05 20:30:42 <PhonicUK> WinSCP = awesome
May 05 20:30:57 <PhonicUK> I wish Windows could natively mount a location over SSH
May 05 20:31:18 <mikki-kun> PhonicUK: windows doesn't even know what ssh is
May 05 20:31:25 <PhonicUK> i know :\
May 05 20:31:58 <PhonicUK> does anybody else use SSH/SCP to move files to/from their device?
May 05 20:31:59 <mikki-kun> it's kind of funy that my n900 is more powerful than a windows machine running with an i7 :D
May 05 20:32:09 <mikki-kun> PhonicUK: i do... all the time
May 05 20:32:18 <PhonicUK> how do you figure that?
May 05 20:32:29 <PhonicUK> I like SSHing into it and treating it like any other unix box
May 05 20:32:32 <mikki-kun> well, at least if it comes in regards of connectivity
May 05 20:32:38 <PhonicUK> :P
May 05 20:32:51 <mikki-kun> you ssh to a windows machine?
May 05 20:33:00 <PhonicUK> no into my N900
May 05 20:33:11 <PhonicUK> from my windows desktop
May 05 20:33:12 <mikki-kun> ahhhh, yeah, that i do if i need some console-work done
May 05 20:33:21 <mikki-kun> the keyboard is a lil too small for that on the n900
May 05 20:33:35 <PhonicUK> same
May 05 20:33:38 <mikki-kun> PhonicUK: you use uhm... puTTY right?
May 05 20:33:41 <PhonicUK> yup
May 05 20:33:54 <PhonicUK> I have a icon on my desktop that just connects to it automagically :)
May 05 20:33:58 <PhonicUK> authenticates with a DSA key
May 05 20:34:22 <mikki-kun> ok... kind of reminds me now "hey, that sounds familiar ... oh yeah, 'there is an app for that'" :D
May 05 20:34:34 <PhonicUK> lol
May 05 20:34:45 <PhonicUK> do you ever VNC into your device?
May 05 20:34:56 <mikki-kun> i didn't try vnc up until now
May 05 20:35:03 <lcuk> i vnc from it often
May 05 20:35:04 <PhonicUK> its pretty cool, if a bit slow
May 05 20:35:08 <mikki-kun> first i gotta get my homework done with secure shell
May 05 20:35:14 <lcuk> its rare i need to see/interact with a remote n900
May 05 20:35:20 <PhonicUK> ive RDP'ed from it a few times
May 05 20:35:30 <mikki-kun> PWD?
May 05 20:35:32 <PhonicUK> lcuk, mines only remote in so far as its sat on my desk connected to my WiFI
May 05 20:35:34 <mikki-kun> uhm... RPD?
May 05 20:35:42 <PhonicUK> RDP = Remote Desktop Protocol
May 05 20:35:48 <PhonicUK> to connect to windows machines
May 05 20:35:51 <mikki-kun> ahhh, the windows stuff
May 05 20:35:51 <lcuk> tho the first time i touched fremantle was on my n810 using vnc from qwertys home xepyhr
May 05 20:35:58 <PhonicUK> its much faster than VNC
May 05 20:36:08 <mikki-kun> PhonicUK: but only from windows to windows
May 05 20:36:11 <mikki-kun> afaik
May 05 20:36:17 <lcuk> PhonicUK, and depends on what you need
May 05 20:36:22 <PhonicUK> nope, you can connect to a windows machine from a linux box
May 05 20:36:24 <PhonicUK> rdesktop :)
May 05 20:36:31 <PhonicUK> I wish we had something like VNC that used MPEG / MJPEG so i could stream video
May 05 20:36:42 <mikki-kun> ahhh, ok...
May 05 20:36:55 <mikki-kun> every day new bits of information reaching /dev/brain :D
May 05 20:36:58 <PhonicUK> lol
May 05 20:37:02 <lcuk> PhonicUK, nahh simple compression is best
May 05 20:37:12 <lcuk> its still hard work compressing all the bits even for a bigger computer
May 05 20:37:26 <PhonicUK> lcuk, not at 800x480 for a 3.2GHz quad core
May 05 20:37:27 <lcuk> infact harder - because big high spec machines also seem to have big high res screens
May 05 20:37:31 <mikki-kun> PhonicUK: you could try with SSH "ssh -CY $USER@$HOST"
May 05 20:37:48 <PhonicUK> lcuk, downscale the screen first before encoding :P
May 05 20:37:51 <lcuk> PhonicUK, scaling your 3200*1200 dual desktop is still hard
May 05 20:37:56 <lcuk> and you wouldnt see anything
May 05 20:38:00 <PhonicUK> theres a really good app for the PSP that does it extremely well
May 05 20:38:04 <PhonicUK> PSPDisp
May 05 20:38:12 <PhonicUK> 30fps with maybe 50ms latency
May 05 20:38:14 <PhonicUK> over Wifi
May 05 20:38:27 <PhonicUK> 480x272, MJPEG
May 05 20:38:33 <PhonicUK> I played TF2 with it, was awesome
May 05 20:38:36 <mikki-kun> PhonicUK: PSP? hell, what did happen there with it?! Ö.Ö
May 05 20:38:51 <mikki-kun> luckily i still have my old PSP-1000 with CFW :D
May 05 20:38:54 <lcuk> PhonicUK, then why arent those patches in the public vnc..
May 05 20:39:01 <PhonicUK> lcuk, it doesn't use VNC
May 05 20:39:03 <PhonicUK> its a custom protocol
May 05 20:39:06 <PhonicUK> but its open source :)
May 05 20:39:11 <PhonicUK> maybe ill make a Linux port
May 05 20:39:16 <PhonicUK> its really simple
May 05 20:39:26 <lcuk> integrate into vnc and get best of all worlds..
May 05 20:39:45 <mikki-kun> PhonicUK: uhm, did you try running that from the outside world?
May 05 20:39:59 <PhonicUK> mikki, nope - but mainly because my internet is shite
May 05 20:40:08 <mikki-kun> ok, that explains stuff
May 05 20:40:09 <lcuk> tho the extra work to do fullscreen compression is ott and just overdoiing stuff
May 05 20:40:11 <mikki-kun> i know what you mean
May 05 20:40:16 <PhonicUK> 3Mbit down, 256KBit up
May 05 20:40:18 <PhonicUK> fecking BT
May 05 20:40:27 <lcuk> i use vnc anywhere over 3g
May 05 20:40:38 <mikki-kun> ok, the up sucks... i should have 8/512
May 05 20:40:39 <PhonicUK> If i had my old connection (40/4) I would :)
May 05 20:40:42 <lcuk> orks over dialup too :)
May 05 20:40:46 <lcuk> w
May 05 20:41:02 <mikki-kun> but out of thailand i have like mail-pidgeon to nothing
May 05 20:41:03 <PhonicUK> its annoying, my old house that had 40/4 is walking distance away
May 05 20:41:06 * lcuk did remote tech support to windows users many times that way
May 05 20:41:32 <PhonicUK> RDP is much more bandwidth efficient than VNC for 'applications'
May 05 20:41:41 <PhonicUK> for anything else (random bitmaps etc) its less
May 05 20:42:26 <lcuk> PhonicUK, does rdp interact with the current session or is it using terminal services?
May 05 20:42:31 <lcuk> or whatever its called
May 05 20:43:03 * lcuk still knows people with win9x who have vnc
May 05 20:44:15 <PhonicUK> lcuk, it can do either
May 05 20:45:00 <lcuk> does vista/w7 still do the cute thing of blocking the interactive user when a remote session starts?
May 05 20:45:36 <MohammadAG> lcuk, adorable isn't it?
May 05 20:45:52 <lcuk> makes you want to pat it on the head
May 05 20:45:54 <lcuk> with a hammer
May 05 20:46:19 <PhonicUK> lcuk, yeah when using terminal service mode (default)
May 05 20:46:28 <PhonicUK> if you use 'remote assistance' mode, it doesn't behave like that
May 05 20:46:51 <PhonicUK> theres also a hack to let you have multiple terminal sessions
May 05 20:46:59 <PhonicUK> but its only 1 per user so you need to ahve an extra user account
May 05 20:47:02 <lcuk> there are so many gotchas with RA mode and failure points we standardised and got instructions down which worked always
May 05 20:47:14 <PhonicUK> lol
May 05 20:47:16 <MohammadAG> but of course remote assistance is f'd up enough to allow someone from here to control your PC
May 05 20:47:46 <ZogG> i got the most wierd msg on maemo tal
May 05 20:47:51 <ZogG> talk
May 05 20:48:18 <ZogG> hello! Im so noob that i dont know how to enter on a IRC. And i sucefully instaled android on my n810. Now i'm trying to install ubuntu.
May 05 20:48:32 <ZogG> what does he want from me?
May 05 20:48:33 <lcuk> ZogG, of course
May 05 20:48:34 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: RA is quite secure
May 05 20:48:45 <ZogG> lcuk of course what?
May 05 20:49:16 <lcuk> people find it easier installing entire operating systems on their devices than opening a webpage
May 05 20:49:29 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, so secure someone on freenode was downloading a .bat file to my PC
May 05 20:49:56 <lcuk> http://webchat.freenode.net \o/
May 05 20:49:58 <jacekowski> how?
May 05 20:50:08 <jacekowski> and it wasn't RA
May 05 20:50:12 <jacekowski> it was remote desktop
May 05 20:50:17 <ZogG> lcuk, you missed something - that was letter i got
May 05 20:50:18 <jacekowski> and that's disabled by default
May 05 20:50:19 <ZogG> it's not me =)
May 05 20:50:28 <lcuk> yeah ZogG you are here
May 05 20:50:30 <lcuk> they arent
May 05 20:50:32 <MohammadAG> no idea, but I narrowed everything down till I found it was RA
May 05 20:50:35 <ZogG> perhaps next time i should use quotes
May 05 20:50:40 <MohammadAG> think I enabled it once
May 05 20:50:45 <jacekowski> remote assistance is disabled by default
May 05 20:50:51 <ZogG> lcuk and it's good for us =)
May 05 20:50:55 <jacekowski> and remote assistance != remote desktop
May 05 20:51:01 <ZogG> MohammadAG go to sleep
May 05 20:51:11 <jacekowski> and most likely you had remote desktop enabled with some easy password
May 05 20:51:20 <lcuk> we used to configure vnc with reverse connections and disable regular nbound stuff
May 05 20:51:33 <MohammadAG> Nope, I use VNC for that
May 05 20:51:34 <lcuk> so they had to pop up box and connect to us
May 05 20:51:37 <jacekowski> teamviewer.com
May 05 20:51:39 <PhonicUK> anyone know how to batch-rename everything to lower case?
May 05 20:51:44 <lcuk> got round all router problems
May 05 20:51:47 <jacekowski> PhonicUK: google
May 05 20:51:49 <ZogG> gn8 everyone
May 05 20:51:49 <mikki-kun> meh... why the heck did maemo.org again forget my freaking password?!
May 05 20:51:58 <jacekowski> PhonicUK: quite easy to find
May 05 20:52:08 <jacekowski> lcuk: teamviewer is quite nice
May 05 20:52:32 <lcuk> sure jacekowski but even solutions like that had problems
May 05 20:52:42 <jacekowski> explain
May 05 20:53:02 <PhonicUK> the scripts don't work under busybox's flavor of SH
May 05 20:53:04 <lcuk> slower on average
May 05 20:53:37 <lcuk> didnt work under all conditions and having to know and understand peoples broser support
May 05 20:53:49 <lcuk> and god forbid they had firefox or something that doesnt use activex
May 05 20:54:32 <PhonicUK> has anyone got quake2 to play nice?
May 05 20:55:04 <lcuk> meanwhile with a small app included in software package for support purposes we were able to reliably and smoothly get on any system we needed to (with the customer driving the connection)
May 05 20:56:24 <DocScrutinizer51> burrp
May 05 20:56:46 <PhonicUK> Error: Couldn't load pics/colormap.pcx
May 05 20:56:50 <PhonicUK> but I have pak0 etc etc
May 05 21:01:21 <PhonicUK> LoadLibrary("ref_soft.so") failed: No such file or directory
May 05 21:01:21 <PhonicUK> :\
May 05 21:04:48 <Mece> PhonicUK, perhaps you could use bash?
May 05 21:04:57 <PhonicUK> I sorted the case problem
May 05 21:05:02 <PhonicUK> write my own script to do it :P
May 05 21:07:20 <PhonicUK> but now it cant find some lib
May 05 21:07:59 <PhonicUK> even though its right ther e:\
May 05 21:10:30 <Mece> PhonicUK, I haven't tried it. looked like it should work just fine from what I read on tmo
May 05 21:11:04 <PhonicUK> every time i google it I get spammed with stuff about Q3
May 05 21:11:11 <PhonicUK> which isn't helpful xD
May 05 21:15:08 <Joonas> hi
May 05 21:15:23 <lcuk> hi Joonas
May 05 21:16:07 <Joonas> trying to update gTranslate, but I'm getting an error. Package missing: libhildon1 (>=2.2.15-1+0m5)
May 05 21:16:20 <Joonas> Do i need to wait for PR1.2 before I can update?
May 05 21:18:03 <lcuk> Joonas, if the package has strict dependencies on a specific version, then yes unfortunately
May 05 21:19:38 * crashanddie waves at Joonas 
May 05 21:19:40 <Joonas> But is there updates that needs PR1.2 in the repository?
May 05 21:19:41 <crashanddie> err
May 05 21:19:44 * crashanddie waves at lcuk 
May 05 21:19:49 <Joonas> :)
May 05 21:19:52 <crashanddie> sorry Joonas, brainfreeze
May 05 21:20:08 <lcuk> hey crabman \o
May 05 21:20:08 <crashanddie> I'm completely wasted
May 05 21:20:34 <crashanddie> just spent the day moving all the crap in one room to remove the carpet and place new one, then move all the crap back into the room
May 05 21:21:47 <Joonas> err, <Joonas> *Why* is there updates that needs PR1.2 in the repository?
May 05 21:22:35 <brik> to taunt us was my guess
May 05 21:22:54 <MohammadAG> so that when 1.2 is released they don't have to rebuild apps
May 05 21:23:13 <lcuk> Joonas, because the repository is setup as pr1.2 now and the update to devices is not quite in sync yet
May 05 21:24:02 <wall[e]> can't wait for tomorrow
May 05 21:24:08 <wall[e]> last night I thought like that.
May 05 21:24:18 <Joonas> ok, thanks
May 05 21:25:18 <lcuk> Joonas, for most packages now its not a problem because of a new toolkit on the servers, but for specific things like you have encountered its needed
May 05 21:38:16 <javispedro> Joonas: are you the maintainer of gtranslate?
May 05 21:38:22 <javispedro> oh, ouch.
May 05 21:38:30 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 05 21:39:26 <PhonicUK> my washing machine is taking off
May 05 21:39:30 <PhonicUK> its trying to go to the moon
May 05 21:52:23 <PhonicUK> I wonder what the past tense of netsplit is...
May 05 21:52:25 <PhonicUK> Netsplat?
May 05 21:53:16 <MohammadAG> lol
May 05 21:53:39 <MohammadAG> PhonicUK, remember the tail command you gave me?
May 05 21:53:51 <MohammadAG> does it work with changing output? (like wget)
May 05 21:53:59 <PhonicUK> yes
May 05 21:54:11 <MohammadAG> it's not working with arecord
May 05 21:54:16 <PhonicUK> wget behaves differently when its being pipes
May 05 21:54:38 <PhonicUK> hmm
May 05 21:54:40 <MohammadAG> differently?
May 05 21:54:43 <PhonicUK> yeah
May 05 21:54:53 <MohammadAG> arecord is the same btw (in terms of output)
May 05 21:55:24 <PhonicUK> what is the device node for the audio output device?
May 05 21:55:41 <MohammadAG> ?
May 05 21:55:49 <PhonicUK> /dev/dsp
May 05 21:55:53 <PhonicUK> is what it normally is
May 05 21:55:54 <MohammadAG> /dev/null
May 05 21:56:01 <SpeedEvil1> PhonicUK: pulseaudio
May 05 21:56:05 <cowbot> Get:28 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/non-free Sources [11.2kB]
May 05 21:56:08 <cowbot> always hangs updating scratchbox
May 05 21:56:17 <PhonicUK> speedevil, but what is the dev node?
May 05 21:56:22 <SpeedEvil1> PhonicUK: you can also use alsa - however, that confuses stuff as it expects pulse
May 05 21:56:31 <SpeedEvil1> you have to use alsa
May 05 21:56:39 <SpeedEvil1> I forget the card numbers
May 05 21:56:44 <PhonicUK> ah well
May 05 22:09:16 <cowbot> what is PhonicUK trying to do
May 05 22:09:29 <PhonicUK> be silly :P
May 05 22:09:37 <PhonicUK> arecord > /dev/dsp :P
May 05 22:10:07 <cowbot> we don't have oss
May 05 22:10:26 <PhonicUK> aye
May 05 22:11:16 <cowbot> you can echo microphone to audio output if you want to make an echobox
May 05 22:11:24 <javispedro> use pulse.
May 05 22:21:46 <javispedro> parec -r | parec -p
May 05 22:21:52 <javispedro> er..
May 05 22:21:54 <javispedro> parec | pacat
May 05 22:36:12 <pupnik> there's a million ways to be
May 05 22:36:13 <pupnik> you know that there are...
May 05 22:55:32 <markinfo> hi. I can connect from my nokia n810 to nokia n97 over Bluetooth and surf on the internet. And now I would like to do that also from my laptop wher is installed debian-squeeze. How?
May 05 22:57:08 <ShadowJK> NetworkManager doesn't do it?
May 05 22:57:22 <markinfo> Serial port ist not able to connect - even it is n the profile of nokia n97. Only "Dial up networking" but it ries something and says "Connection Failed: Modem Manager did not support the connection"
May 05 22:57:47 <markinfo> ShadowJK, I am Using XFCE with Blueman.
May 05 22:57:54 <ShadowJK> Dial Up Networking is the correct port to use
May 05 22:58:28 <markinfo> But - dial up networking?  I would expect some settings.
May 05 22:58:49 <markinfo> or do I miss something in debian ?
May 05 22:59:46 <ShadowJK> hm, dunno
May 05 23:00:04 <ShadowJK> Yeah I would also expect some settings
May 05 23:00:15 <markinfo> because n810 work wit "Connection type: Packet data" and Accespoint name:drei.at  and Dial Up number.
May 05 23:00:32 <markinfo> username and password is empty
May 05 23:00:44 <markinfo> how it is made in OS2008?
May 05 23:01:22 <ShadowJK> Well OS2008 uses icd2 and other Nokia software..
May 05 23:02:41 <markinfo> ShadowJK, some non-free software?
May 05 23:02:49 <ShadowJK> yes
May 05 23:05:41 <ShadowJK> Googling 'modemmanager N97' actually brings up a few hits to various distro bugzillas
May 05 23:10:15 <markinfo> ShadowJK, hm - interesting - there ist package "Modemmanager" package installable.
May 05 23:32:36 <c|oneman> what language are native maemo apps written in?
May 05 23:34:36 <MohammadAG> C afaik
May 05 23:34:39 <MohammadAG> GTK as a UI
May 05 23:43:49 <MohammadAG> umm, is there a sleep function for microseconds?
May 05 23:43:55 <MohammadAG> usleep doesn't seem to be installed
May 05 23:45:20 <SpeedEvil> you're including the right include?
May 05 23:45:24 <SpeedEvil> unistd.h IIRC?
May 05 23:45:58 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, including? isn't it a binary?
May 05 23:46:04 <c|oneman> MohammadAG: what about firefox extensions and fennec extensions?
May 05 23:46:09 <SpeedEvil> umm - what are you doing?
May 05 23:46:27 <MohammadAG> err, just delaying a command in a shell script
May 05 23:46:33 <Gizmokid2005> *sigh* another app unable to update on PR1.1.1...
May 05 23:46:34 <SpeedEvil> oh - right
May 05 23:46:34 <MohammadAG> apparently sleep 0.1 doesn't work
May 05 23:46:45 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: busybox sleep fails in so many ways
May 05 23:46:58 <MohammadAG> c|oneman, no idea, ask timeless
May 05 23:47:15 <MohammadAG> is it only sleep that fails in busybox? :)
May 05 23:47:26 <c|oneman> I'm trying to figure out which langs I should learn  for mobile development
May 05 23:47:30 <SpeedEvil> no
May 05 23:48:00 <SpeedEvil> clo: c, c++, python?
May 05 23:48:44 * MohammadAG would go for Python, it's easiest, but C/C++ are more powerful
May 05 23:49:27 <MohammadAG> coreutils-gnu doesn't seem to have sleep, bah
May 05 23:50:27 <MohammadAG> oh nvm, it does
May 05 23:56:03 <acidjazz> python > *
May 05 23:56:08 <acidjazz> how are they more powreful
May 05 23:56:29 <SpeedEvil> acidjazz: Python can be for some applications very slow.
May 06 00:04:13 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke busybox
May 06 00:04:14 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at busybox ... B☢☢M!
May 06 00:06:15 <kthomas_vh> lol
May 06 00:07:22 <c|oneman> "the silo doors are closed! this is suicide!"
May 06 00:07:52 <kthomas_vh> doubleLOL
May 06 00:26:31 <kthomas_vh> trying to complile (configure) syncevolution
May 06 00:26:50 <kthomas_vh> configure keeps telling me I don't have libcurl although I've installed all versions
May 06 00:29:06 <kthomas_vh> ^^ m4/n810
May 06 01:07:22 <Funnyfacemob> my tracker-indexer is stuck at 100% CPU load, is that normal?
May 06 01:07:40 <Funnyfacemob> aah seems like it is done now
May 06 01:07:43 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 06 01:08:17 <Funnyfacemob> never did that before, I guess it is because I transferred my music collection over here some days ago
May 06 01:16:01 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke tracker
May 06 01:16:02 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at tracker ... B☢☢M!
May 06 01:16:32 <DocScrutinizer> ~spank $inventor
May 06 01:16:33 * infobot bends $inventor over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on $inventor's pasty white buttocks.
May 06 01:58:43 <MohammadAG> Night #maemo
May 06 01:59:04 <Ken-Young> Goodnight@
May 06 01:59:11 <MohammadAG> o/
May 06 02:10:44 <Termana> good morning
May 06 02:23:36 <kdubois> the media player for my maemo phone doesnt play mp3's, any ideas?
May 06 02:24:37 <cure`> always or just now? i had sometimes, a reboot would suffice
May 06 02:26:56 <SpeedEvil> sometimes the media codec thingy can crash
May 06 02:27:09 <kdubois> well, i just got it today, so i don't have a lot of backwards reference :P
May 06 02:27:12 <kdubois> i'll try a reboot
May 06 02:28:10 <kdubois> hopefully this fixes the video problem too
May 06 02:29:47 <SpeedEvil> playing odd codecs can sometimes do that
May 06 02:30:29 <kdubois> yeah, i was doing some tinkering with ffmpeg to put some videos on there
May 06 02:31:28 <kdubois> yeah, thats what did it, one particular video encoding does it in
May 06 02:31:32 <DocScrutinizer> so the DSP crashed, and probably you'll need a boot
May 06 02:31:48 <DocScrutinizer> known bug
May 06 02:32:13 <DocScrutinizer> (the DSP part is my guess though)
May 06 02:32:13 <kdubois> yeah... its h264/aac though
May 06 02:32:24 <kdubois> i thought that was supported
May 06 02:33:00 <DocScrutinizer> it should afaik. Maybe the source has a poisoned bitsequence
May 06 02:33:27 <kdubois> yeah, just gotta find the magic combo to get video to work :P
May 06 02:33:57 <DocScrutinizer> err, click on it in mediaplayer?
May 06 02:34:23 <kdubois> no, to get the video in the right format
May 06 02:34:29 <DocScrutinizer> aah
May 06 02:42:14 <kdubois> mpeg4/mp3 seems to work better
May 06 02:48:27 <cure`> i tend to use mplayer with sib for video and the default media player for mp3's
May 06 02:50:47 <njsf_> cure`: I want to use panucci because of the auto bookmark, but I think it is a little more resource intensive than the stock media player
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 06 02:59:56 2010