**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 09 02:59:56 2010
May 09 02:59:58 <omar> i'm really annoyed w/the widget configuration.. hope they do something about that
May 09 03:00:02 <dotblank> did they say xmpp video calling would work?
May 09 03:00:05 <omar> it's a pain to align things correctly
May 09 03:00:20 <omar> yeah i think google+skype vid calling worked
May 09 03:03:10 <twofishiies> is there a changelist somewhere?
May 09 03:18:18 <omar> so dotblank, mind if i refer to you while learning how to develop on maemo?
May 09 03:19:04 <omar> can prob find most things on my own but it's lame to get stuck somewhere and not easily  google an answer
May 09 03:36:42 <dotblank> omar, sure but im also new to developing apps on maemo
May 09 03:37:12 <omar> even better, we can collaborate then :D
May 09 03:37:41 <omar> i just got this phone like 4 days ago and i'm pretty excited about making things for it
May 09 03:38:31 <dotblank> omar, Ive had it for months
May 09 03:39:33 <omar> you think it'd be possible to make an app that reads in all the coordinate/sizes of widgets on desktop and lets you rearrange them using like a snap-to-grid?
May 09 03:39:54 <budfive> omar: snap-to-grid already exists in the stock maemo
May 09 03:40:02 <budfive> you can even choose the grid spacing
May 09 03:40:07 <omar> wait waht?
May 09 03:40:13 <omar> where is this
May 09 03:40:24 <budfive> i don't remember exactly. look around the settings
May 09 03:40:26 <budfive> let me see
May 09 03:40:44 <Macer> omar: actually. you have to add an app for this
May 09 03:41:03 <budfive> yes, you're right
May 09 03:41:07 <Macer> i think it's call tweakr
May 09 03:41:08 <budfive> tweakr is what you want
May 09 03:41:09 <Macer> or something like that
May 09 03:41:09 <budfive> :)
May 09 03:41:22 <omar> i've had instances where i've completely lost all my widgets too.. the .config/hildon-desktop/home.plugins gets reset for some reason
May 09 03:41:36 <omar> so would be nice to have an app to back all that stuff up :)
May 09 03:41:47 <Macer> omar: well. i lose my contacts on the desktop if i disable my jabber client :/
May 09 03:41:49 <omar> can prob just write a sh script though for that
May 09 03:41:51 <Macer> i thought that was kind of odd
May 09 03:42:00 <Macer> :)
May 09 03:42:11 <omar> i've lost my widgets twice.. but once you go to add them all their positions are the same
May 09 03:42:14 <Macer> i'm sure things will get better with time.. maybe even get a portrait mode for the PHONE
May 09 03:42:17 * Macer hides
May 09 03:42:18 <omar> it's annoying to need to do that though
May 09 03:42:31 <omar> and thx budfive i'll get tweakr now :D
May 09 03:42:31 <dotblank> im going to make a per-contacts ringtone app
May 09 03:42:38 <Macer> dotblank: that would be cool
May 09 03:42:51 <Macer> but i think that was supposed to be part of 1.2 wasn't it? could be wrong tho
May 09 03:42:58 <dotblank> already know how im going to do it
May 09 03:43:01 <Macer> it would be awesome to have tho ;)
May 09 03:43:07 <dotblank> I don't think it was
May 09 03:43:35 <Macer> oh. i thought someone here said it was.. but who knows. will just have to be patient and wait until it's stable and released
May 09 03:43:36 <omar> any of you have your device overclocked?
May 09 03:43:45 <Macer> you can overclock it?? haha
May 09 03:43:52 <omar> lol yeah
May 09 03:43:58 <dotblank> No, nor do i want to
May 09 03:44:08 <dotblank> it can significantly reduce lifetime
May 09 03:44:16 <Macer> yeah. i'd be a little nervous to overclock it :)
May 09 03:44:22 <omar> looking at my history i've never owned a phone for more than a year and a half.. so i'm not really worried about it
May 09 03:44:23 <Macer> especially since i got it less than a month ago
May 09 03:44:36 <dotblank> omar, it could die in months
May 09 03:44:58 <Macer> well.. it's running at 600MHz now. so like. how fast can it go? :)
May 09 03:45:03 <Macer> can you bump it up to 1GHz?
May 09 03:45:10 <dotblank> someone did
May 09 03:45:14 <omar> the voltage i'm using is lower than the stock kernel at 600 mhz
May 09 03:45:18 <omar> yeah i have it running at 1000 mhz now
May 09 03:45:27 <Macer> can you tell?
May 09 03:45:34 <Macer> i mean. does it seem faster? :)
May 09 03:45:35 <omar> i made some buttons on my desktop to change the speeds on the fly
May 09 03:45:37 <omar> yeah it does
May 09 03:45:52 <omar> most noticably browsing and using the app manager
May 09 03:46:06 <dotblank> install the playstation emulator
May 09 03:46:13 <Macer> that's awesome
May 09 03:46:13 <omar> i haven't had the phone that long though so i haven't used it so much at stock speeds ;)
May 09 03:46:13 <Macer> heh
May 09 03:46:18 <omar> i have it dotblank
May 09 03:46:32 <omar> was playing final fantasy tactics on psx4all extremely smoothly
May 09 03:46:35 <omar> almost like it was running native
May 09 03:46:38 <Macer> someone needs to make a dreamcast emulator for it :)
May 09 03:46:47 <omar> but there's no save state and some of the sounds were screwy and dialogue boxes in game
May 09 03:47:04 <dotblank> well emulation isnt always perfect
May 09 03:47:07 <omar> i didn't know how to revert to psx4all 0.3.1 even though i have the package on my device
May 09 03:47:16 <Macer> i find it irritating to play any game on the phone
May 09 03:47:17 <Macer> although
May 09 03:47:22 <Macer> i haven't tried the tv out :)
May 09 03:47:38 <Macer> i wouldn't mind playing ioquake using the tv out if that's at all possible.. with a bt keyboard and mouse
May 09 03:47:40 <dotblank> got my dualshock hooked up to it and played sonic on my TV
May 09 03:47:42 <omar> well better that it's not perfect, i've been a gamer too long would rather be something more productive ;)
May 09 03:47:46 <dotblank> I love sonic 3
May 09 03:47:54 <Macer> dualshock?
May 09 03:48:00 <Macer> a ps3 controller?
May 09 03:48:00 <Macer> heh
May 09 03:48:03 <dotblank> yea dualshock 3
May 09 03:48:07 <Macer> it works?
May 09 03:48:10 <Macer> that's awesome
May 09 03:48:12 <dotblank> yup
May 09 03:48:24 <adalal> hey, sorry to bring this up, but how do i modify titan's kernel?
May 09 03:48:41 <dotblank> I haven't the slightest
May 09 03:48:50 <Macer> i sure wish blizzard would release starcraft for maemo haha
May 09 03:48:54 <Macer> with net support
May 09 03:48:54 <omar> you wanna modify the kernel itself or the clock settings?
May 09 03:48:58 <Macer> tmobile would go bankrupt
May 09 03:49:08 <Macer> because people would be wearing out their unlimited internet pkgs
May 09 03:49:15 <dotblank> Macer, I already ported the battlenet server
May 09 03:49:30 <Macer> dotblank: seriously?
May 09 03:49:34 <dotblank> Macer, yea
May 09 03:49:46 <adalal> omar: clock and voltage settings
May 09 03:50:02 <Macer> dotblank: well. get starcraft working
May 09 03:50:08 <Macer> or warcraft 2 or 3 :)
May 09 03:50:09 <Macer> heh
May 09 03:50:10 <dotblank> Macer, not as easy
May 09 03:50:15 <Macer> probably impossible
May 09 03:50:23 <dotblank> well warcraft is possible
May 09 03:50:25 <Macer> but i'd love to see a REAL rts for the n900
May 09 03:50:38 <Macer> dotblank: port wine
May 09 03:50:39 <omar> adalal,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking
May 09 03:50:39 <Macer> :)
May 09 03:50:44 <Macer> we'll run it from wine
May 09 03:50:45 <Macer> haha
May 09 03:51:05 <Macer> although i doubt that wine would do very well to run x86 stuff on an arm
May 09 03:51:12 <dotblank> it would be cool to see a mobile mmo
May 09 03:51:13 <Macer> or if that is even possible. well.. i suppose anything is possible
May 09 03:51:20 <dotblank> and it has location based services
May 09 03:51:20 <Macer> dotblank: yeah that too
May 09 03:51:26 <dotblank> OMG
May 09 03:51:31 <Macer> i mean the n900 has the power to play SOMETHING good :)
May 09 03:51:43 <Macer> sure wish someone would release something for it that would take advantage of it
May 09 03:51:45 <dotblank> pokemon clone that when you get in proximitry would ring battle mode
May 09 03:51:58 <Macer> haha
May 09 03:52:06 <Macer> that would be a riot
May 09 03:52:28 <dotblank> you would walking past someone in a store.. both phones ring
May 09 03:52:46 <Macer> and it turns intoa  pokemon fight in the middle of the store?
May 09 03:52:47 <Macer> :)
May 09 03:52:51 <dotblank> YES
May 09 03:52:59 <Macer> i think street fighter 2 would be a little more fun
May 09 03:53:01 <dotblank> that would be genious
May 09 03:53:08 <Macer> but control on the phone itself sucks
May 09 03:53:23 <dotblank> omg.. I should try to get sfIII 3rd strike
May 09 03:53:24 <Macer> unless you did the on screen buttons thing.. but that doesn't work too well either
May 09 03:53:36 <dotblank> dualshock 3?
May 09 03:53:55 <adalal> omar: thanks, but which file is it that i need to change and reload the settings?
May 09 03:54:23 <dotblank> Na I think a location based mmo would be cool
May 09 03:54:43 <dotblank> you could leave epic quests for people in an area
May 09 03:54:48 <dotblank> kinda like geocacheing
May 09 03:54:54 <omar> do you have the enhanced kernel or the other one?
May 09 03:55:10 <omar> actually
May 09 03:55:13 <adalal> enhanced
May 09 03:55:15 <adalal> i think
May 09 03:55:16 <adalal> :S
May 09 03:55:19 <adalal> maemo24 package
May 09 03:56:04 <omar> adalal, they're in /usr/share/kernel-power-settings
May 09 03:56:15 <omar> get maemo25 one it's nicer ;)\
May 09 03:56:20 <dotblank> augmented reality mmo
May 09 03:56:24 <dotblank> wopuld be sick
May 09 03:56:27 <dotblank> would*
May 09 03:56:30 <adalal> omar: thanks dude, i think i'll upgrade to that soon.... any new changes to that?
May 09 03:56:45 <omar> yeah the syntax of kernel confs are different
May 09 03:56:59 <omar> and some guy on maemo forums named tonism found the lowest voltages possible per clock setting
May 09 03:57:04 <omar> and has his confs online to use
May 09 03:57:25 <adalal> k thx
May 09 03:57:35 <dotblank> My n900 murders my battery
May 09 03:57:39 <dotblank> its really really bad
May 09 03:58:00 <omar> adalal, you can see that here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=646072&postcount=101
May 09 03:58:08 <adalal> whats new in v25?
May 09 03:58:19 <omar> dotblank, what do u mean? like when not using or when using it
May 09 03:58:52 <omar> adalal, as far as i know the conf files are different and it gives you an option to set a default kernel conf upon system boot
May 09 03:58:54 <dotblank> not using it
May 09 03:58:59 <dotblank> lasts like 4 hours
May 09 03:59:07 <adalal> ah ok
May 09 03:59:21 <adalal> k thanks thenm
May 09 03:59:22 <omar> dotblank, why don't you fix it? :P
May 09 03:59:39 <budfive> dotblank: know why?
May 09 03:59:54 <omar> when i don't use my phone my battery graph has nearly no slope
May 09 04:00:00 <omar> seems like it'd last months
May 09 04:00:18 <dotblank> I have a ton of accounts set up on tjhe device
May 09 04:00:33 <omar> oh if you have accounts + network running yeah that'll kill it ;P
May 09 04:00:45 <omar> i saw someone on the forums show that the msn pecan plugin was killing the battery the hardest
May 09 04:01:01 <dotblank> hmm
May 09 04:02:17 <omar> btw dotblank you can download titan's kernel and undervolt ur cpu to make it drain less power
May 09 04:02:36 <omar> take a lookat this graph
May 09 04:02:36 <omar> http://tonism.2bit.ee/N900/starving.png
May 09 04:03:22 <dotblank> hmm
May 09 04:03:22 <omar> i've been running the starving conf so even at 1000 mhz i'm using less voltage than when the phone would normally run at 600 mhz
May 09 04:03:43 <dotblank> i wouldn't ever go above 600 mhz
May 09 04:04:01 <omar> u don't need to.. you can still use 600 mhz and undervolt it
May 09 04:04:15 <omar> i dunno if that's going to lessen the life though, wouldn't think it would
May 09 04:04:16 <dotblank> will that cause damage?
May 09 04:04:29 <omar> i don't see why it wouldn't be better than running it at a higher voltage
May 09 04:05:27 <omar> i'm not really worried about overclcoking though personally, the desktop i'm using now is a 2.13ghz oc'd to 3.2
May 09 04:05:41 <omar> been running it like that forever
May 09 04:05:43 <omar> and it's fine
May 09 04:07:18 <dotblank> ivr oced my desktop plenty
May 09 04:07:57 <dotblank> haven't really needed 2 much now adays
May 09 04:08:21 <dotblank> Ive got 5 systems with 2.4 quads all running linux
May 09 04:08:30 <omar> nice
May 09 04:08:35 <dotblank> SETI@home better give me some kind of medal
May 09 04:08:39 <omar> mine is a mere core2 duo :P
May 09 04:08:54 <omar> and the mobo is kinda strange, developed a weird problem i don't know what's wrong with it
May 09 04:09:05 <omar> sometimes my system will crash the only thing that works is reseating the ram
May 09 04:09:07 <dotblank> custom built?
May 09 04:09:09 <omar> yeah
May 09 04:09:15 <omar> i had it shipped overseas
May 09 04:09:20 <omar> and fedex did a horrible job packaging it
May 09 04:09:24 <omar> so i think that contributed a lot to it
May 09 04:09:42 <dotblank> my computer doesn't work with windows.. it restarts about every 30 mins
May 09 04:09:56 <omar> weird
May 09 04:10:05 <omar> mine is completely stable other than this weird prob i face
May 09 04:10:07 <dotblank> ah, well no loss
May 09 04:10:20 <omar> like sometimes i have to move what DIMM my ram is in
May 09 04:10:26 <omar> so right now i'm not running dual channel
May 09 04:10:31 <dotblank> is the boared bent
May 09 04:10:38 <omar> nope it's perfect
May 09 04:10:48 <dotblank> I have a mobo shipped from afar andit got bent a little
May 09 04:11:00 <omar> and when it runs
May 09 04:11:02 <omar> it runs flawlessly
May 09 04:11:12 <dotblank> Had to put the board in a kind vice in order so the ram would fit all the pins
May 09 04:11:17 <omar> sometimes for a week at a time, sometimes for a day or two until it crashes
May 09 04:11:36 <dotblank> what mobo is it?
May 09 04:11:40 <omar> asus p5b deluxe wifi
May 09 04:11:55 <dotblank> it has wifi on it?
May 09 04:11:58 <omar> i'd buy another one if i could find one :)
May 09 04:11:59 <omar> yeah it does
May 09 04:11:59 <dotblank> onboard?
May 09 04:12:01 <omar> yeah
May 09 04:12:07 <dotblank> how well does that work?
May 09 04:12:15 <omar> had 0 problems with it
May 09 04:12:19 <dotblank> hmm
May 09 04:12:22 <dotblank> I hate wifi
May 09 04:12:25 <dotblank> like its evil
May 09 04:12:27 <omar> yeah i don't like it
May 09 04:12:39 <omar> i moved to UAE though and the houses here are pure concrete too
May 09 04:12:43 <omar> so wifi doesn't travel nicely
May 09 04:12:43 <omar> at all
May 09 04:12:51 <omar> it doesn't go through the walls
May 09 04:13:06 <dotblank> I got a second verizon router so I can run MoCa instead of being wireless
May 09 04:13:30 <dotblank> turns any coax jack into a gigabit ethernet port
May 09 04:13:40 <omar> oh?
May 09 04:13:49 <dotblank> works really nice.. using it now
May 09 04:14:01 <omar> never heard of it
May 09 04:14:08 <dotblank> its a little known thing
May 09 04:14:24 <omar> i saw a product that lets you runa  network through the electrical system in your house
May 09 04:14:29 <omar> don't know how well that'd work
May 09 04:14:32 <dotblank> problem is getting a moca interface.. normally they are expensive
May 09 04:15:04 <dotblank> thats PLC
May 09 04:15:11 <dotblank> very dependant on distance
May 09 04:15:35 <dotblank> and quality of power in your house
May 09 04:15:35 <omar> i'm half satisfied w/my wifi setup though
May 09 04:15:41 <pupnik> mornin
May 09 04:15:45 <omar> have a d-link router upstairs and a range repeater downstairs
May 09 04:15:56 <omar> and can get full bandwidth (usually)
May 09 04:16:00 <dotblank> I hacked my linksys router with dd-wrt and used it as a wireless bridge
May 09 04:16:16 <omar> nice
May 09 04:16:30 <dotblank> working with a lot of compuers gets more difficult with wireless
May 09 04:16:36 <dotblank> computers*
May 09 04:17:07 <omar> yeah i get random problems
May 09 04:17:29 <dotblank> Where I live.. There are about 30+ networks in range of my pc
May 09 04:17:34 <omar> oh that sucks then :P
May 09 04:17:36 <dotblank> so its super congested
May 09 04:17:43 <omar> where do you live?
May 09 04:17:50 <dotblank> suburbia
May 09 04:18:11 <omar> when i lived in california i could pick up like 15 accesspoints walking around my house with kismet on
May 09 04:18:15 <omar> a laptop
May 09 04:18:29 <dotblank> I used to do the same thing.. now I have my n900
May 09 04:18:35 <omar> and the spacing between the houses was pretty big
May 09 04:18:52 <omar> i have no idea how to use the kismet CLI on it
May 09 04:19:01 <dotblank> im happy aircrack-ng was ported
May 09 04:19:02 <omar> i get a ton of errors then it keeps wanting to connect
May 09 04:19:21 <omar> how're you supposed to use it?
May 09 04:19:23 <omar> kismet that is
May 09 04:19:40 <dotblank> I didn't use kismet much
May 09 04:19:51 <omar> does aircrack do wpa nowadays?
May 09 04:19:55 <dotblank> I used aircrack exclusively
May 09 04:19:56 <dotblank> yes
May 09 04:20:05 <omar> is it still brute force or is there an algorithm now?
May 09 04:20:28 <dotblank> trying to get the n900 version to work with location services so I can go biking and map out my area
May 09 04:20:40 <dotblank> omar still bruteforce
May 09 04:20:57 <dotblank> omar, but.. http://code.google.com/p/pyrit/
May 09 04:21:59 <omar> too bad my n900 doesn't have a geforce 295 gtx ;P
May 09 04:22:11 <dotblank> well its networked now
May 09 04:22:27 <dotblank> have a home cluster with gpus running
May 09 04:22:33 <dotblank> I have a gtx 285 and 275
May 09 04:24:24 <omar> yeah that goes beyond my know-how :P
May 09 04:24:24 <omar> sending a file back home to your  cluster for bruteforcing
May 09 04:24:24 <omar> spent too much time playing wow
May 09 04:24:42 <dotblank> That game is a killer
May 09 04:25:00 <omar> why would a core 2duo have the same speed as a core i7 950
May 09 04:25:02 <dotblank> used to play got bored and installed linux
May 09 04:25:21 <omar> i've been playing w/linux on and off since high school but never fully committed
May 09 04:25:22 <dotblank> omar, well I don't think hyperthreading really helps
May 09 04:25:33 <dotblank> Ive used linux since middle school
May 09 04:26:18 <omar> i think back when i was using it linux was nearly synonymous with redhat
May 09 04:26:25 <omar> so tried installing that and couldn't get my video card to work
May 09 04:26:33 <omar> but learned a lot trying
May 09 04:26:52 <dotblank> I tried installing slackware and getting it to work with my 3dfx Voodoo
May 09 04:27:16 <dotblank> that was my first experiance with linux
May 09 04:27:27 <omar> lool i remember 3dfx voodoo
May 09 04:27:45 <omar> i remmeber buying one and my framerate in quake 3 made the game nice and smooth
May 09 04:28:04 <omar> before it was like playing a powerpoint presentation
May 09 04:28:08 <dotblank> I guess its come a long way.. now im sporting dual 1080p monitors with a digital sound receiver
May 09 04:28:30 <omar> yeah.. and i'm broke now i'm still stuck w/my core 2 duo and ati hd 5770
May 09 04:28:46 <dotblank> im broke (well now)
May 09 04:28:55 <omar> dropped college -> working (nice salary) -> back in university again
May 09 04:29:12 <omar> during my short stint working i bought 4 motorcycles within 2 years
May 09 04:29:19 <pupnik> why are you on internet if you have no money?  go earn some money.
May 09 04:29:28 <omar> and retired for like 6 months
May 09 04:29:52 <omar> i have class in 2.5 hours and i'm installing maemo-sdk :P
May 09 04:29:57 <omar> can't leave the internet!
May 09 04:30:21 <dotblank> I was working as a network support tech... and they didn't pay me enough for the level of stress that came with the job now im in school
May 09 04:30:56 <omar> i was making 56k/year full health benefits when i was 20
May 09 04:31:04 <omar> and decided to quit that and move to another country
May 09 04:31:05 <dotblank> as?
May 09 04:31:17 <omar> working for a hospital as kind of a software support
May 09 04:31:22 <pupnik> broke = broken over here
May 09 04:31:32 <omar> not just a hospital.. a national healthcare organization
May 09 04:32:01 <dotblank> I would love to get a job relating to opensource
May 09 04:32:17 <omar> they had some old software made in 1990s that was all command line interface and they rolled out a new system, had to help facilitate that. it was an awesome job
May 09 04:32:24 <omar> but i wans't using my brain
May 09 04:32:44 <omar> mundane troubleshooting skillz but dealing with people all the time was fun
May 09 04:33:00 <dotblank> I would work on VoIP and cisco products .. I mean it is 10-20 times harder get help for closed software
May 09 04:33:12 <omar> what kind of programming experience you have?
May 09 04:33:23 <dotblank> Not to much.. kinda a hobbyist
May 09 04:33:33 <omar> more than me obviously!
May 09 04:33:59 <omar> omg the sdk is done d/ling finally
May 09 04:34:03 <omar> after 2 hours
May 09 04:34:06 <dotblank> omar, I don't know I know a lot of languages.. sortof never one to completeness
May 09 04:34:42 <dotblank> tought myself php in 8ths grade
May 09 04:34:48 <dotblank> That was cool
May 09 04:34:57 <dotblank> had all sorts of fun with that
May 09 04:35:18 <omar> i was learning VB5 in 7th grade then i discovered quake 3.. my first real online computer game
May 09 04:35:42 <omar> then met some ppl through irc in quake 3 channels and got into mmorpgs so that derailed me throughout highschool
May 09 04:36:00 <dotblank> I got ruined in highschool by hacking
May 09 04:36:15 <dotblank> got into my county's public school system
May 09 04:36:24 <omar> oh in 6th grade i was having fun w/netbus lol
May 09 04:36:26 <omar> nice
May 09 04:36:45 <dotblank> was domain admin for 60k+ desktops
May 09 04:36:58 <omar> how'd you gain access to that?
May 09 04:37:27 <dotblank> they used a insecure policy tool that stored the admin password in plaintext on EVERY machone
May 09 04:37:51 <dotblank> so when they found out they got mad
May 09 04:38:09 <omar> lol
May 09 04:38:45 <omar> the worst thing i did was sending/cancelling print jobs to random places in my school
May 09 04:38:45 <dotblank> The schoolboard said I prolly didn't need to go anyway
May 09 04:38:47 <dotblank> grr
May 09 04:38:57 <omar> so you got in massive trouble?
May 09 04:39:05 <dotblank> yea court and all that
May 09 04:39:07 <omar> wow
May 09 04:39:15 <dotblank> that was 9th grade
May 09 04:39:22 <omar> so did you complete?
May 09 04:39:26 <dotblank> yes
May 09 04:39:37 <dotblank> took online classes (lol)
May 09 04:39:49 <dotblank> then got back into school
May 09 04:39:55 <dotblank> got computer rights back
May 09 04:40:02 <omar> hehe
May 09 04:40:04 <dotblank> did internships in HS
May 09 04:40:43 <dotblank> competed nationally in computer networking
May 09 04:41:06 <omar> never knew there was competitions for that
May 09 04:41:13 <dotblank> yea its little knows
May 09 04:41:15 <dotblank> known
May 09 04:41:23 <dotblank> got 4th in the nation
May 09 04:41:44 <dotblank> this kid from cyberdefense got first
May 09 04:42:38 <omar> what did the competition entail?
May 09 04:43:00 <dotblank> tests. troubleshooting configuration.. stuff liek that
May 09 04:43:12 <omar> o
May 09 04:43:30 <omar> alright so these scratchbox targets..
May 09 04:43:35 <omar> ARMEL and x86
May 09 04:43:45 <omar> i choose armel when i want to do development for my n900?
May 09 04:43:51 <dotblank> frogot to study PAP over pptp serial links between cisco routers
May 09 04:44:03 <dotblank> well both are
May 09 04:44:29 <dotblank> but armel is the one that will run on the n900
May 09 04:44:55 <omar> i'm a little confused about it, what does it change exactly? the way the code is compiled?
May 09 04:45:04 <dotblank> the target
May 09 04:45:08 <omar> i'm guessing the armel compiles binaries for the armel?
May 09 04:45:19 <omar> yeah i read it was a target to something
May 09 04:45:19 <dotblank> if you set of the xserver you can run the app on your computer
May 09 04:45:23 <dotblank> with gui
May 09 04:45:30 <dotblank> set up*
May 09 04:45:41 <dotblank> that only works in x86
May 09 04:45:52 <dotblank> armel only works with commandline
May 09 04:45:56 <dotblank> in the sbox
May 09 04:46:08 <omar> oh
May 09 04:46:31 <dotblank> if it compiles in the sbox it should compile for the armel in the sbox
May 09 04:46:37 <omar> i see
May 09 04:46:52 <omar> so debugging/testing use x86 and when you wanna throw it on the device use the armel
May 09 04:46:58 <omar> to compile
May 09 04:47:03 <dotblank> im not an expert but thats what I think is going on
May 09 04:47:11 <dotblank> omar, yup
May 09 04:47:31 <dotblank> omar, thats not to say you won't have hickups when compiling to armel
May 09 04:47:49 <omar> jumping into this is pretty overwhelming having mediocre experience w/linux and virtually no working knowledge with sdks
May 09 04:47:49 <dotblank> some code has platform specific sections of their code
May 09 04:48:06 <dotblank> sbox is terribly old
May 09 04:48:16 <omar> i aced both beginning and intermediate programming though and found learning C++ easy
May 09 04:48:24 <omar> and fun ;)
May 09 04:48:38 <dotblank> I took a programming class and I didn't learn a thing
May 09 04:48:42 <dotblank> it was soo easy
May 09 04:48:49 <dotblank> I need to goto a better school
May 09 04:48:54 <omar> yeah i didn't learn much in beginning programming course other than syntax
May 09 04:49:03 <omar> but intermediate was nice
May 09 04:49:08 <dotblank> I knew more then the teacher
May 09 04:49:13 <omar> yeah same here
May 09 04:49:23 <dotblank> all the apps i made I made them able to run on windows and linux
May 09 04:49:27 <dotblank> that confused him
May 09 04:49:32 <omar> we were looking at some girl's code for her final project and he was getting confused i had to help her explain it to him
May 09 04:49:35 <omar> lol
May 09 04:49:59 <dotblank> I bet I could make a ton of money just being a tutor
May 09 04:50:00 <omar> all i've really done was visual studio console apps
May 09 04:51:16 <dotblank> QT seems cool to me cause its really really easy to port
May 09 04:51:28 <dotblank> pr1.2 will be super easy to develop for
May 09 04:51:43 <omar> why's that? you can use qt now too can't you?
May 09 04:52:25 <dotblank> well the new nokia beta sdk has the sbox already set up and integrated so you just have to click build and it creates the armel target
May 09 04:52:50 <omar> oh damn... should i have downloaded that new 1.2 sdk?
May 09 04:53:01 <dotblank> also integrating it with MADDE proves very easy
May 09 04:53:13 <dotblank> well.. its good your learning this tho
May 09 04:53:21 * RST38h yawns wide enough to swallow a bicycle
May 09 04:54:17 <omar> what're you using as an IDE? or does the sdk act as an ide as well?
May 09 04:54:25 <dotblank> it use qt creater
May 09 04:54:30 <dotblank> uses*
May 09 04:55:47 <omar> so that's for c++
May 09 04:55:50 <omar> cool my native language ;P
May 09 04:56:32 <omar> i was learning python though and it looked rather easy to throw things together with Qt
May 09 04:57:17 <dotblank> you don't need the sdk to develop python.l. you can just run it on your device
May 09 04:57:55 <DW_Ya_DiqG> wanna c somethin fucced up lol dont send pics to ur bf if ur gonna do him dirty lol http://www.paybackNikki.in/?id=1053lbj6dbtpx2w0nwezzclymagipl
May 09 04:58:50 <omar> seems more convenient then
May 09 04:59:09 <omar> how's the performance?
May 09 04:59:33 <pupnik> a few seconds atartup time for most py* apps
May 09 05:00:58 <omar> so it's all being interpreted or is there a way to compile something to make it run faster?
May 09 05:02:19 <pupnik> if you can code in something compiled please do :)
May 09 05:02:34 <omar> lol
May 09 05:07:55 <user__> hmm
May 09 05:09:12 <omar> weird i can log into freenode on my n900 but not pc
May 09 05:09:19 <omar> need vpn to access it with my pc
May 09 05:09:34 <omar> ohh
May 09 05:09:39 <omar> guess that port was blocked
May 09 05:13:59 <dotblank> ugh
May 09 05:14:06 <dotblank> might need to reflash
May 09 05:14:16 <dotblank> filled my rootfs and can't fix it
May 09 05:14:44 <omar_> you went to taht wiki i showed you?
May 09 05:15:06 <dotblank> don't think so..
May 09 05:15:57 <omar_> http://maemory.com/N900/tools/moveroot.sh
May 09 05:16:01 <omar_> this gave me 40 more megs
May 09 05:16:39 <Naomarik> f
May 09 05:16:57 <Naomarik> grr
May 09 05:17:13 <dotblank> already tried that
May 09 05:17:20 <omar_> o
May 09 05:17:24 <omar_> wat the heck you do then? :P
May 09 05:18:24 <dotblank> dpkg --configure -a and the log files filled um my space
May 09 05:18:33 <dotblank> didn't mean to do that
May 09 05:18:44 <dotblank> ran out of space mid install
May 09 05:19:09 <pupnik> omar_: where did that come from
May 09 05:20:11 <omar_> what come from?
May 09 05:20:20 <omar_> the script?
May 09 05:20:21 <pupnik> script
May 09 05:20:22 <omar_> found it on maemo wiki
May 09 05:20:27 <pupnik> k ty
May 09 05:20:38 <omar_> rootfs -> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner#Safely_free_some_space_on_rootfs -> link to script
May 09 05:21:18 <dotblank> ah ha fixed it
May 09 05:21:22 <dotblank> dpkg -l | grep libqt4 | awk '{ print $2 }' | xargs dpkg -L | xargs rm
May 09 05:22:00 <pupnik> dotblank: you got libqt4-core fixed on your device?
May 09 05:22:10 <dotblank> nah not really
May 09 05:22:17 <dotblank> just had to remove it
May 09 05:22:44 <pupnik> it oh
May 09 05:22:50 <pupnik> i want  apt-get install phototranslator-alph
May 09 05:22:51 <pupnik> a
May 09 05:24:29 <dotblank> w00t I got 11% back
May 09 05:24:39 <dotblank> looks like everything will be ok
May 09 05:26:53 <omar_> wo0t i have something that looks like an n900 on my desktop :D
May 09 05:28:22 <omar_> so dotblank where is this qtcreator you spoke about
May 09 05:29:41 <dotblank> omar_, http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/
May 09 05:29:56 <omar_> oh thought it was in scratchbox itself
May 09 05:29:58 <omar_> how naive of me
May 09 05:31:03 <omar_> so i'm assuming this is for 1.2 as well?
May 09 05:31:06 <omar_> since it's beta
May 09 05:37:07 <dotblank> yes
May 09 05:37:16 <dotblank> it won't work on anything else
May 09 05:37:32 <dotblank> ok NOW I have to reflash
May 09 05:37:41 <omar_> what'd you do
May 09 05:37:41 <dotblank> I break stuff then fix then break
May 09 05:38:12 <dotblank> my 20 online accounts are about to go offline :(
May 09 05:38:23 <omar_> no wonder you only last 4 hours
May 09 05:38:31 <omar_> you prob use your device like a laptop
May 09 05:39:20 <dotblank> yea
May 09 05:39:30 <dotblank> its my ultra mobile computer
May 09 05:40:05 <dotblank> at least I can still run the backup tool
May 09 05:43:12 <omar_> what exactly does that backup tool backup?
May 09 05:44:27 <dotblank> cantacts etc...
May 09 05:44:30 <dotblank> contacts*
May 09 05:45:05 <omar_> boring ;P
May 09 05:46:03 <omar_> dotblank, what linux you using?
May 09 05:46:11 <dotblank> 10.04
May 09 05:46:15 <dotblank> ubuntu
May 09 05:46:20 <omar_> you use empathy?
May 09 05:46:24 <dotblank> aye
May 09 05:46:28 <omar_> msn too?
May 09 05:46:34 <dotblank> no
May 09 05:46:41 <dotblank> I use gtalk
May 09 05:46:44 <dotblank> aim
May 09 05:46:45 <omar_> the msn part is screwy
May 09 05:46:46 <dotblank> and skype
May 09 05:46:52 <omar_> it screws up after awhile
May 09 05:46:57 <dotblank> and I run my own local jabber server
May 09 05:47:15 <omar_> i have no idea what jabber is :P
May 09 05:47:25 <omar_> keep seeing it lately
May 09 05:48:22 <dotblank> its the protocol that gtalk uses and facebook's backend and well jabber
May 09 05:49:25 <omar_> i thought that was xmpp
May 09 05:49:28 <omar_> for gtalk
May 09 05:50:02 <dotblank> yea same thing
May 09 05:50:06 <dotblank> xmpp is jabber
May 09 05:50:29 <dotblank> whoa
May 09 05:50:29 <omar_> oh
May 09 05:50:30 <omar_> hah
May 09 05:50:31 <dotblank> WHOA
May 09 05:50:33 <omar_> wat
May 09 05:50:43 <dotblank> never seen this nokia boot screen befor
May 09 05:50:48 <dotblank> ewhat on earth is this?
May 09 05:51:36 <dotblank> wish I could take a picture but my phones is well er booting or something
May 09 05:51:54 <omar_> weird
May 09 05:51:57 <omar_> u flashed it or what
May 09 05:52:01 <dotblank> not yet
May 09 05:52:01 <omar_> mind describing it?
May 09 05:54:31 <dotblank> ah it wasn't much
May 09 05:54:55 <dotblank> now its flashing
May 09 05:56:25 <dotblank> ah back in buisness
May 09 06:02:44 <omar_> dotblank, aight i'm heading to class, will keep in touch w/you on skype if not here ;)
May 09 06:02:50 <omar_> nice meeting you!
May 09 06:03:13 <dotblank> omar_, nice meeting you to
May 09 06:04:27 <dotblank> WOW
May 09 06:04:37 <dotblank> only 68% of rootfs is used up
May 09 06:09:21 <RST38h> Lt. Patenaude said Lord Jesus Christ had a Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles identification card.
May 09 06:11:34 <dotblank> is maemo.org down?
May 09 06:12:30 <Ken-Young> dotblank, Nope.
May 09 06:13:58 <dotblank> try just the frontpage not the forums
May 09 06:14:37 <Ken-Young> dotblank, I did - it works for me.
May 09 06:14:44 <dotblank> clear your cache
May 09 06:14:53 <dotblank> for me its a blank page
May 09 06:15:05 <dotblank> http://maemo.org
May 09 06:15:49 <Ken-Young> dotblank, It's fine for me.
May 09 06:17:51 <Termana> dotblank, I get the same thing, so your not alone :P
May 09 06:17:58 <ds3> 
May 09 06:18:00 <Termana> X-Fade, ping
May 09 06:19:23 <Ken-Young> Even after clearing cache, I have no problem seeing the front page http://maemo.org .
May 09 06:21:52 <Termana> Clearing my cache has no effect, still see the same problem as dotblank
May 09 06:22:05 <dotblank> usgs just texted me there is a 7.4 M earthquake!
May 09 06:22:21 <Ken-Young> dotblank, Where?
May 09 06:22:31 <dotblank> says middle of nowhere tho
May 09 06:22:42 <dotblank> Banda Aceh
May 09 06:22:52 <dotblank> Indonesia
May 09 06:23:28 <dotblank> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/95_5.php
May 09 06:23:53 <Termana> One in Mexico as well
May 09 06:24:30 <dotblank> very minor ones tho
May 09 06:24:48 <Termana> Ah right, I see that now :P
May 09 06:24:55 <Termana> 2.5
May 09 06:25:06 <dotblank> http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/2010/05/09/338478/01/message338478-01.htm
May 09 06:42:25 <frals> hmm
May 09 06:42:32 <frals> only me getting a blank page at maemo.org?
May 09 06:42:53 <jaska> me too
May 09 06:50:20 <Termana> frals, dotblank and myself are getting it as well
May 09 06:54:43 <pupnik> getting what?
May 09 07:05:33 <frals> pupnik: blank page at maemo.org
May 09 07:08:19 <frals> X-Fade: maemo.org/* serving up blank pages
May 09 07:08:45 <KnightStalker> grr
May 09 07:08:55 <KnightStalker> I hate new maemo.org
May 09 07:09:21 <lbt> yeah it's crap
May 09 07:09:27 <lbt> way too plain
May 09 07:22:06 <RST38h> maemo.org? it shows a white page to me
May 09 07:33:30 <cotigao> RST38h, same here
May 09 07:33:48 <timeless_mbp> wfm
May 09 07:38:30 <Trizt> it shows a white page in seamoneky and konqueror the page I loaded before it
May 09 07:39:25 <Trizt> maybe it's lenny playing ticks
May 09 07:42:19 <timeless_mbp> do i want to know what the nokia hk thing is?
May 09 07:46:46 <Trizt> they say it's "Nokia", but I guess it's iis
May 09 08:16:14 * timeless_mbp frowns
May 09 08:16:23 <timeless_mbp> what was the name of the 'real' service for the n800?
May 09 08:17:18 <aquatix> imnotfaked?
May 09 08:17:24 <timeless_mbp> rhapsody
May 09 08:17:28 <aquatix> ah ;)
May 09 08:22:36 <__a> sorry if this is a stupid question but.. in the config file you get with kernel-config.. what is the point of having values for all frequency configs? if MINFREQ=250, why bother having 0:22,90 and 125:22,90 in FREQS?
May 09 08:25:55 <asj> I must say 125mhz does save a lot of bat :)
May 09 08:26:13 <sulx> I must say it doesn't
May 09 08:26:29 <asj> sulx: proof?
May 09 08:26:42 <sulx> I had 125-900
May 09 08:26:47 <sulx> now 500-900
May 09 08:27:06 <asj> ok...so you don't have any numbers? :)
May 09 08:27:51 <sulx> no
May 09 08:28:07 <asj> ok, so we have one that says yay and one that says nay :)
May 09 08:28:52 <Chiku> no hk nokia owner on this chan?
May 09 08:29:01 <Chiku> they don't use irc ?
May 09 08:29:16 <Corsac> 6667 doesn't pass the great firewall of china
May 09 08:29:20 <Chiku> or just chinese irc ?
May 09 08:29:31 <sulx> I don't see any difference between 125 and 500
May 09 08:29:33 <Chiku> HK no firewall rgiht?
May 09 08:29:35 <Corsac> they have their own private internet
May 09 08:29:39 <__a> sulx: doesnt it depend on how much the device idles? playing with it all day it'll never idle thus difference wont be noticed?
May 09 08:29:45 <sulx> and 500 is mroe responsive
May 09 08:29:49 <sulx> so going with it
May 09 08:29:54 <asj> info is racist and bans HK
May 09 08:30:00 <asj> err infobot
May 09 08:30:01 <sulx> __a: true
May 09 08:30:27 <asj> it should idle to 0, so 125 won't help there
May 09 08:30:34 <sulx> with my usage batt lasts around 2 days
May 09 08:30:55 <asj> I'll be lucky to last a whole day
May 09 08:31:17 <__a> same here.. one day max
May 09 08:31:47 <sulx> if IM clients are online thats another thing
May 09 08:32:02 <asj> I have 3 voip accounts, 2 im accounts :D
May 09 08:32:24 <sulx> that explains a lot =)
May 09 08:32:51 <asj> work phone, so <shrug>
May 09 08:33:23 <asj> and I listen to mp3's when commuting so there's 1:30 of that, and if my coworkers is eating with his mouth open there's a couple more hours that day
May 09 08:34:51 <asj> eating chips with your mouth open in a shared office should be a hanging offence
May 09 08:36:53 <__a> asj:  so idle is always 0? then what does MINFREQ and MAXFREQ do?? min and max while in use?
May 09 08:37:22 <asj> that would be a fair guess
May 09 08:37:36 <asj> I don't know the technical details of this chip
May 09 09:07:02 * timeless_mbp ponders
May 09 09:25:57 <Trizt> Hong Kong nor Macau are behind the Chinese Great Firewall, but Australia may soon be having their own version
May 09 09:29:13 <DocScrutinizer> moo
May 09 09:29:14 <RST38h> why not have a single firewall? =)
May 09 09:29:21 <RST38h> for both China and Australia?
May 09 09:30:14 <DocScrutinizer> hahh! - Hostmode for birthday gift, love that :-)
May 09 09:30:58 <Trizt> RST38h; it's possible, like when the Chinese firewall leaked and affected the rest of the world not so long ago
May 09 09:38:56 <Chiku> I don't think HK is behind the firewall, since chinese google servers is behind the firewall, google decise to use the .hk ones instead of the .cn ones
May 09 09:41:10 <raster> RST38h: australia welcomes its new chinese overlords and their great firewall. shall we all ways be protected from the evils of the internet that the government deems us unworthy to experience.
May 09 09:46:18 <Trizt> from where did you get the silly thought that it would be behind the great firewall?
May 09 09:46:53 <SpeedEvil> hk is not actually an island
May 09 09:47:22 <raster> hk is an island
May 09 09:47:39 <raster> if by hk you mean.. hong kong island
May 09 09:47:49 <raster> (it literally is an island)
May 09 09:48:06 <Trizt> I think most people include Kowloon and New Territories into HK
May 09 09:48:12 <raster> hong kong - the territory though does extend onto the mainland (kowloon)
May 09 09:48:40 <raster> Trizt: as i said. depends on what you mean by hong kong :)
May 09 09:48:49 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hong_Kong_Location.svg
May 09 09:48:55 <raster> but hong kong - the territory, is not behind the firewall
May 09 09:48:58 <SpeedEvil> I mean the territory
May 09 09:49:11 <raster> but australia should just join the .cn firewall
May 09 09:49:25 <Trizt> at least not until July 2047
May 09 09:49:27 <raster> it'll do a great job of protecting those poor innocent australians from the evils of the internet
May 09 09:49:36 <raster> so we are told by our politicians
May 09 09:49:58 <raster> we obvious are too stpid to decide for ourselves and need protecting by those knowledgeable pollies
May 09 09:50:13 <Trizt> I think it's better Australia joins .kp, who filters internet that they get from China
May 09 09:51:04 <raster> that could work
May 09 09:51:12 <raster> and red--star linux will be the national os
May 09 09:51:16 <SpeedEvil> .kp has a really advanced filter
May 09 09:51:25 <raster> lets put up everthing in 항울
May 09 09:51:31 <raster> 안엏앗어!
May 09 09:51:33 <SpeedEvil> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm
May 09 09:51:35 <Trizt> raster; you mean red flag?
May 09 09:51:39 <raster> no
May 09 09:51:43 <raster> red flag is .cn's linux
May 09 09:51:48 <raster> red star is .kp's
May 09 09:52:42 <Trizt> I thought they had their own OS made completely by the Great Leader
May 09 09:53:59 <raster> they do
May 09 09:54:02 <raster> red star linux
May 09 09:55:21 <Trizt> I'm happy he invented double bread with beef, sadly those greedy Americans copied his food
May 09 09:56:23 <Cabletwitch> Ahh, much better. Not restricted to a tiny screen today :O)
May 09 09:57:02 <Trizt> Cabletwitch; connected the n900 to your tv?
May 09 09:57:29 <Cabletwitch> No, not using the N900 for irc this time. Normally when I'm here, I'm using xchant on it, on the train to work.
May 09 09:58:11 <Cabletwitch> Today, is a day off. So I can use my main machine, and not suffer an eternity of slow typoing (deliberate spelling) and eyestrain :O)
May 09 09:58:47 <Cabletwitch> Still havent found a way to rid myself of these bloody phantom files though
May 09 09:59:00 <Trizt> format c: ? ;)
May 09 09:59:16 <Cabletwitch> Dont joke, I might be heading that way...
May 09 09:59:43 <Cabletwitch> 5150 media files on my 900, 12 of which are actually real and present.
May 09 09:59:56 <Cabletwitch> Hooray for things going slowly wrong.
May 09 09:59:59 <Trizt> cool
May 09 10:00:43 <Cabletwitch> A tip... NEVER copy an entire games directory to the N900, then attempt to use the media player. It just makes things... complicated.
May 09 10:00:59 <Cabletwitch> Still, its down from over 11k of files.
May 09 10:01:25 <Cabletwitch> I wonder if and when the new update arrives, it might sort this mess.
May 09 10:01:39 <Trizt> hmmm... looks like my laptops update failed...
May 09 10:10:55 <ruskie> Cabletwitch, you mean in the mediaplayer/image viewer? just stop tracker then wipe the tracker db(~/.local/share/tracker/* and restart tracker ;)
May 09 10:10:59 <Shapeshifter> why are the libalarm bindings for python so damn crippled -.-
May 09 10:11:35 <lmansuy> hello
May 09 10:12:35 <lmansuy> is it the chan to ask questions about N900 software updating ?
May 09 10:13:24 <Shapeshifter> ~ask
May 09 10:13:24 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
May 09 10:13:44 <lmansuy> ok
May 09 10:16:25 * DocScrutinizer greets raster
May 09 10:17:31 <raster> DocScrutinizer: nihao!
May 09 10:17:34 <raster> :]
May 09 10:17:41 <DocScrutinizer> nihao
May 09 10:17:44 <lmansuy> I can't install apps like PyQT4 because of lack of libqt for example; I think I have nokia apps, nokia updates, ovi, maemo.org and maemo extras activated; Is there another repository to enable ?
May 09 10:17:47 <DocScrutinizer> ;-)
May 09 10:18:22 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: Shapeshifter: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650247#post650247
May 09 10:21:41 <Shapeshifter> nice :D
May 09 10:22:58 <lbt> goddamit.... my n900 has started to ignore my APs again...
May 09 10:25:48 <SpeedEvil> Oh wow.
May 09 10:25:55 <SpeedEvil> So it's at least reading descriptors.
May 09 10:26:06 <SpeedEvil> That would seem to be 99.5% of the way there
May 09 10:26:57 <Shapeshifter> lmansuy: I'm not sure where PyQt resides but I think it's in extras-devel. You might want to enable that (usual warnings apply!).
May 09 10:29:11 <lmansuy> Shapeshifter: PyQt seems to be in maemo extras; this is not the only package that refuse to install because of lack of Qt's libs... I do not know how to install Qt4
May 09 10:31:54 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: well, that's confirmation of my postulated hostmode-0.0.1, so let's call it hostmode-0.1
May 09 10:34:36 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I.E we may be just hours away from a decent working hostmode
May 09 10:35:04 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: the last 3 or 4 days were amazing :-D
May 09 10:35:23 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: seems like a critical mass effect
May 09 10:36:46 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: note the change in topic ;-D
May 09 10:36:50 <pupnik> whatwhatwwhat
May 09 10:37:21 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: what what?
May 09 10:37:24 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
May 09 10:37:47 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: egoshin had a little birthday present for me :-)
May 09 10:37:57 <pupnik> anything interesting happen DocScrutinizer ?  i been in sauna
May 09 10:38:13 <pupnik> is it maemo related?
May 09 10:38:19 <DocScrutinizer> nah, just N900 enumerated some usb devices
May 09 10:38:25 <DocScrutinizer> (well it tried to)
May 09 10:38:32 <pupnik> +++
May 09 10:38:42 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650247#post650247
May 09 10:38:54 <roadi> i get the error message "E: Handler silently failed" when i try to instal fennec - can anyone give me a hint? thx :)
May 09 10:43:25 * Shapeshifter is shopping for a USB to Micro-B adaptor...
May 09 10:47:06 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: this one http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Specialized_USB_cables#Ready-made_type_A_jack_to_a_type_A_jack_adapter_.28gender_changer.29 highly convenient and useful. Check the rest of that page as well
May 09 10:48:25 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: I think I'll just get this: http://digitec.ch/ProdukteDetails2.aspx?Reiter=Bilder&Artikel=136285
May 09 10:48:56 <Shapeshifter> you never know when you'll need a USB to 3.5mm klinke adaptor >.>
May 09 10:49:24 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: I got plenty of these 'kits' ... :-/
May 09 10:49:43 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: check it out carefully! odds are it can't do what you want
May 09 10:52:37 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: the front right item under the red one *might* be the one essential part, IF it is a micro-B
May 09 10:52:56 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise you're out of luck with that one it seems to me
May 09 10:55:15 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: my bet however is that's a mini-A jack to A-F
May 09 10:56:07 <DocScrutinizer> tbh none of the ~5 such usb multiadapter kits I got ever did anything useful for me
May 09 10:56:16 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: is there any page on BME?
May 09 10:56:25 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
May 09 10:56:50 <DocScrutinizer> don't think so, otherwise someone came up with the URL weeks ago, no? ;-D
May 09 10:57:32 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: humm.
May 09 10:57:38 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: I'm planning to start project 'just-replaces-bme' aka jrbme
May 09 10:58:19 <red> whats bme? :p
May 09 10:58:29 <DocScrutinizer> battery management entity
May 09 10:58:38 <DocScrutinizer> process bme_RX-51
May 09 10:58:48 <DocScrutinizer> closed blob crap
May 09 10:59:20 <DocScrutinizer> getting in the way whenever you want to mess with batery, power management, or USB VBUS
May 09 11:00:10 <DocScrutinizer> PITA for community as well as Nokia
May 09 11:00:25 <DocScrutinizer> everybody wants to get rid of it
May 09 11:00:27 <red> why no documentation for it
May 09 11:00:42 <DocScrutinizer> I'm planning to start a project to achieve that goal
May 09 11:00:52 <red> ah :)
May 09 11:01:16 <DocScrutinizer> red: it's closed source of Nokia with IP of contractors in it (at least Nokia assumes that's the case)
May 09 11:01:52 <Shapeshifter> huh, so bme isn't nokias fault?
May 09 11:02:00 <DocScrutinizer> or s/contractors/3rd party software houses/
May 09 11:02:32 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: bme is heritage, I've been told 10 year old heritage
May 09 11:02:59 <DocScrutinizer> and Nokia probably is *pleased* to get rid of it
May 09 11:03:36 <Shapeshifter> interesting
May 09 11:04:14 <DocScrutinizer> there's been two major bstacles afaik: exploding bat issue, and IP
May 09 11:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> both is moot to best of my knowledge
May 09 11:04:45 <DocScrutinizer> but Nokia remains to be convinced
May 09 11:04:46 <Trizt> So when are you finished with the new implementation?
May 09 11:05:15 <DocScrutinizer> first draft will be out there for peer review in a few days
May 09 11:05:19 <Shapeshifter> Trizt: bme replacement will ship together with duke nukem forever and PR1.2
May 09 11:05:35 <merlin1991> :P
May 09 11:05:52 <Trizt> cool :) me writes up the date 2099-12-31
May 09 11:06:06 <omar> and an easy way to do  pptp vpn :)
May 09 11:07:08 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650333 - attempt to recruit those that may not have read of it before - or who are put off by a huge long thread.
May 09 11:07:52 <DocScrutinizer51> guess I've seen that one before
May 09 11:08:17 <DocScrutinizer51> is it the kernel thread or whatever it was?
May 09 11:08:28 <SpeedEvil> no - new thread
May 09 11:08:31 <omar> SpeedEvil, that looks pretty amazing, you're working on that?
May 09 11:09:01 <SpeedEvil> omar: Sort-of - I'm assisting at the edges as best I can.
May 09 11:09:16 <omar> wish i was at the point where i could too :P
May 09 11:09:45 <auenf> <Trizt> cool :) me writes up the date 2099-12-31 <-- thats far too soon
May 09 11:10:15 <Trizt> auenf; using the Muslim calendar ;)
May 09 11:11:08 <crashanddie> so 600 years difference?
May 09 11:11:19 * Trizt nods
May 09 11:11:21 <auenf> thats still far too soon
May 09 11:12:42 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: aaaahyah
May 09 11:15:12 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=649434&postcount=803 ???
May 09 11:15:34 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: you're sure that's the best ref to teaser?
May 09 11:16:07 <SpeedEvil> Hmm - I was trying to indicate that power worked too
May 09 11:22:43 <Shapeshifter> so, should it be deemed a lie that people were told that usb host mode was physically impossible?
May 09 11:23:28 <MohammadAG> not a lie...
May 09 11:23:36 <MohammadAG> they said OTG was impossible
May 09 11:24:09 <MohammadAG> cool, windows registry is corrupt and I can't switch the default OS to ubuntu
May 09 11:26:12 <alterego> It wasn't a lie, they were just misinformed.
May 09 11:27:49 <alterego> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0-beta/index.html#platform-compatability
May 09 11:27:58 <alterego> So, really, the mobility frameworkfor maemo5 is shockingly bad.
May 09 11:29:07 <alterego> I suppose I could work on some of it myself ...
May 09 12:00:52 <the_file> can any1 open terminal and try to ping: 98.148.185.253
May 09 12:00:54 <the_file> tell me if its successfull please
May 09 12:01:21 <C-S-B-N900> did it
May 09 12:01:28 <C-S-B-N900> failed
May 09 12:01:31 <Stskeeps> did we just ping the nsa?
May 09 12:01:32 <Stskeeps> :P
May 09 12:01:37 <reggna> 9 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 8062ms
May 09 12:01:37 <the_file> naw
May 09 12:01:43 <the_file> you pinged me =)
May 09 12:01:44 <Termana> :P
May 09 12:02:00 <C-S-B-N900> well, we tried.
May 09 12:04:55 <Trizt> still problems with m.org?
May 09 12:06:35 <RST38h> there is talk.maemo.org, it is up, you can go whine there! =)
May 09 12:07:09 <Trizt> I don't whine there, never bothered to register for talk, only bugzilla
May 09 12:10:16 <ShadowJK> sadly, I don't remember a weekend when something.maemo.org wasn't down ;)
May 09 12:10:28 <ShadowJK> It's a antigeek conspiracy!
May 09 12:10:53 <Trizt> I think it's the windroidz who do everything to bring things down ;)
May 09 12:11:44 <RST38h> X-Fade only works on weekdays.
May 09 12:13:14 <DocScrutinizer> weekend is ointment time for the 770 farm
May 09 12:14:24 <DocScrutinizer> so occasionally you get a screen filled with grease instead a tmo-thread
May 09 12:15:30 <DocScrutinizer> and HAM starts to act sluggish while wading thru all the oil
May 09 12:21:17 <TomaszD> is the GPS Logger Widget author around here?
May 09 12:21:22 * VDVsx yawns and waves at RST38h :)
May 09 12:21:50 <maddler> howdy!
May 09 12:24:01 * Dima_Sharihin wants to write apps on nokian900 too =)
May 09 12:27:00 <RST38h> Heya VDVsx
May 09 12:27:31 <RST38h> VDVsx: The incredible failing media player applet problem seems to be solved
May 09 12:27:58 <VDVsx> VDVsx, never used that :)
May 09 12:28:11 <VDVsx> 1.2 fix ?
May 09 12:28:31 <Corsac> there's no 1.2 anyway, it's just a rumor!
May 09 12:30:52 <VDVsx> Corsac, ah right ;)
May 09 12:31:00 <frals> Your code has been rated at 8.20/10 \o/
May 09 12:31:45 <VDVsx> frals, what games are you planning these days ? :D
May 09 12:31:51 <VDVsx> *playing
May 09 12:32:10 <frals> mostly eve-online and bad company2
May 09 12:32:23 <frals> but not had time to play in a while, kinda busy atm ;)
May 09 12:33:36 <VDVsx> lol, my question was about your last sentence^
May 09 12:33:49 <RST38h> VDVsx: No. Surprisingly, it was due to other applets
May 09 12:34:01 <RST38h> VDVsx: OMWeather in my case, USSD in someone else's
May 09 12:34:10 <VDVsx> oh
May 09 12:34:15 <frals> oh, that was pylint going over fmms!
May 09 12:36:11 <VDVsx> what happened to tmo ? community sub-forum only has 4 pages 0.o
May 09 12:37:05 <alterego> I think tmo has dfinally reached critical mass with the PR1.2 thread ..
May 09 12:37:23 <alterego> It has caused the whole site to being collapsing in on itself.
May 09 12:37:32 <Dima_Sharihin> Maybe better to close the thread???
May 09 12:37:38 <alterego> Soon it will turn into a black hole and engulf the entire internet.
May 09 12:37:49 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: archiving?
May 09 12:39:13 <frals> i wonder...
May 09 12:39:17 <frals> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650350#post650350
May 09 12:39:19 <alterego> Today, I'm going to attempt to drive the TV out with something other than the mirrored desktop.
May 09 12:39:26 <frals> why would you create that under meego/harmattan subforum?
May 09 12:39:58 <alterego> I had issue earlier, but closing the tabs and reloading fixed it for me.
May 09 12:40:10 <alterego> It was global over the whole maemo.org domain for me, wiki, planet and talk.
May 09 12:40:24 <alterego> Hah.
May 09 12:40:54 <alterego> I'd be inclined to it being related to the caching.
May 09 13:00:06 <summel> oO who hosts maemo.org?
May 09 13:01:20 <Dima_Sharihin> Domain: maemo.org
May 09 13:01:21 <Dima_Sharihin> Admin Name:Nokia dnsauthority
May 09 13:01:21 <Dima_Sharihin> Admin Organization:Nokia Corporation
May 09 13:01:41 <Dima_Sharihin> summel,  So what?
May 09 13:02:14 <summel> maemo.org is down at least once every week -_-
May 09 13:02:41 <Dima_Sharihin> orly?
May 09 13:03:41 <Dima_Sharihin> summel, maybe they updating the information? or changing content =)
May 09 13:04:02 <summel> so what? i can do that without taking the whole website down -_-
May 09 13:04:50 <summel> i already hate it that apple is too stupid to put new items in their webshop without shutting it down completely for that
May 09 13:05:02 <Corsac> well, they do that in purpose
May 09 13:05:23 <Corsac> shut the AS down and you have buzz everywhere
May 09 13:05:39 <summel> i know they do it on purpose
May 09 13:05:47 <summel> but imho it still looks stupid
May 09 13:09:18 <pupnik> i cant believe how lame the iphone is
May 09 13:09:43 <Cabletwitch> No no, its a training phone.
May 09 13:09:56 <Cabletwitch> When people begin to see the limitations on it, then they look for something better.
May 09 13:11:41 <alterego> AActually, most people put up with it until it dies and then get something that isn't an iPhone, whether it's better or not, people get quite annoyed by it and move on quite a lot.
May 09 13:12:01 <pupnik> heheh
May 09 13:12:10 <alterego> I think all the poeple I know, except one, won't buy another iPhone and are planning on going down the Android or Nokia route.
May 09 13:12:12 <Cabletwitch> I'm actually impressed at how painless the N900 is, as a user experience.
May 09 13:13:01 <alterego> I think the biggest problem with Maemo 5, is it's UI isn't as polished as Android/iPhone
May 09 13:13:18 <alterego> It kind of looks a bit amateur to me.
May 09 13:13:25 <GAN900> Less the UI and more the buggy experience.
May 09 13:13:44 <alterego> I dunno, I don't really have much of an issue with the "UX".
May 09 13:13:49 <GAN900> I think the vast majority of people see the look as a major upgrade.
May 09 13:14:03 <alterego> Oh sure, it's much nicer than any other Nokia,
May 09 13:14:10 <GAN900> The fact that a lot of shit just don't work drives people away.
May 09 13:14:11 <pupnik> eh what buggy experience
May 09 13:14:18 <GAN900> pupnik, Modest
May 09 13:14:22 <GAN900> MicroB
May 09 13:14:27 <alterego> Admittedly, I don't use Modest,
May 09 13:14:40 <alterego> MicroB back button on the toolbar is the only that pisses me off :)
May 09 13:14:42 <GAN900> Incomplete or unstable things
May 09 13:14:54 <GAN900> alterego, fixed in PR1.2
May 09 13:15:06 <summel> what is modest?
May 09 13:15:14 <alterego> GAN900: what's PR1.2? Not that vapour ware everyone has been ranting about :)
May 09 13:15:14 <GAN900> pupnik, keep in mind that these things are all rather subjective.
May 09 13:15:23 <pupnik> use back arrow instead
May 09 13:15:53 <GAN900> Whule it may not bother us or we may have workarounds or whatever, other people often find it enough to make them hate the platform
May 09 13:16:56 <alterego> Well, maemo is seen as a phone OS. Which is sad, because maemo is the first "phone OS" to come from a computing background.
May 09 13:17:19 <alterego> Where as other phone OS' are built for purpose, maemo's phone functionality was a last minute addition to the N900.
May 09 13:17:25 <GAN900> "Nice to see you post here" PM on Talk. Weird.
May 09 13:17:54 <alterego> I always expected the N900 to not have any GSM voice capability and only supply a 3G data  connection. Though, that might be too iPad for some people now ^.^
May 09 13:18:06 <GAN900> alterego, what it really comes down to is Nokia needs to stop cutting the legs out from under the platform.
May 09 13:18:35 <alterego> Well, hopefully the move to Qt will be the last major leg cutting move.
May 09 13:18:45 <Trewas> alterego: maemo5 being the last of its kind and already dead makes is kind of irrelevant what it is or what it was supposed to be
May 09 13:18:59 <alterego> maemo has been a bit of a moving target developer wise, thoguh at least they were consistantly Gtk/hildon :)
May 09 13:19:24 <alterego> Well, I'm not realy in the camp that maemo is dead.
May 09 13:19:45 <alterego> Because maemo is the community of developers and the idea behind a linux based open platform for mobile MID devices.
May 09 13:20:16 <alterego> meego takes that idea a bit further.
May 09 13:20:31 <Trewas> sure, some things may carry over to meego or whatever is the future... but right ow there is very little reasons to do anything with maemo5/hildon
May 09 13:20:34 <alterego> With the addition of Qt, should do it much better too.
May 09 13:20:51 <alterego> Trewas: sure there is, do you like your N900? :P
May 09 13:21:19 <alterego> If you want an app on your N900, write it for the N900. MeeGo will never officially be released for the N900, though a lot of people may use some community maintained builds.
May 09 13:21:29 <Trewas> alterego: it's not bad, but I have become a bit jaded :)
May 09 13:21:55 <alterego> I reckon, PR1.2 will be the last update for the N900, officially, which is the last that your normal user camp will see.
May 09 13:22:23 <alterego> So come the end of this year and into next year, and probably the next few years. There are going to be a load of N900 users, that still need apps.
May 09 13:22:51 <TomaszD> what you reckon is not reality alterego
May 09 13:22:59 <GAN900> alterego, I wouldn't say never with total surety yey
May 09 13:23:01 <GAN900> yet
May 09 13:23:01 <TomaszD> PR1.3 has been mentioned a couple of times already
May 09 13:23:39 <alterego> GAN900: agreed, the mention of the N900 being the meego reference platform is nice.
May 09 13:23:58 <GAN900> At least without defining WTF you mean by "MeeGo"
May 09 13:24:01 * GAN900 sighs
May 09 13:24:07 <GAN900> TomaszD, also: PR2
May 09 13:24:10 <VDVsx> biased uty honest comment: Since I started using the N900 as my main phone I can't switch to other device, used Symbian/android in the last weeks both are a  bit behind for my personal use :P
May 09 13:24:11 <alterego> But I thought the addition to Qt officially in a maemo release might be to enable developers moving to meego the ability to easily backport to maemo5 for the poeple that get left behind.
May 09 13:24:22 <TomaszD> GAN900, that I didn't know, link? :)
May 09 13:24:36 <GAN900> TomaszD, erm. . . .
May 09 13:24:57 <GAN900> VDVsx, except for that stupid Nokia PoS in BCN? :P
May 09 13:25:03 <TomaszD> I wasn't joking about PR1.3 being mentioned by Nokia employees in the bug tracker
May 09 13:25:13 <adalal> hey, anyone knows of a proper installation and configuration help page for titan's v25 kernels?
May 09 13:25:17 <GAN900> I wasn't joking, either
May 09 13:25:33 <TomaszD> so [citation needed] :)
May 09 13:25:35 <GAN900> But I don't have a link
May 09 13:25:46 <GAN900> Well, may need to trust me. :P
May 09 13:25:53 <VDVsx> GAN900, seriously if you have a unlimited data plan, the N900 is a very good device
May 09 13:25:55 <TomaszD> trust me, I won't :)
May 09 13:26:01 <VDVsx> without is not so good :p
May 09 13:26:11 * GAN900 shrugs
May 09 13:26:56 <alterego> I like toys, the N900 is perfect for me :P
May 09 13:26:58 <GAN900> VDVsx, ah, Nokia plan, then? :P
May 09 13:27:37 <VDVsx> unlimited data plan, normal one, who pays for that doesn't matter ;)
May 09 13:29:00 <Trewas> it is a bit sad that there is still no N900 software comparable to some in my previous very basic symbian phone (like nokia's own maps, or sports tracker)... probably pr1.2/gt4.6 being delayed to infinify does not help
May 09 13:29:42 <Surfa> ecoach has it's benefits
May 09 13:29:43 <alterego> I think people are expecting far too much from a minor firmware release.
May 09 13:29:45 <VDVsx> Trewas, I heard that ecoach work great (sportts tracker alternative)
May 09 13:29:53 <alterego> PR1.2 wont include a load of new applications.
May 09 13:30:26 <Trewas> VDVsx: I have it, but at least the version in extras (maybe it has some upgrades -devel) is far from sports tracker when comparing features
May 09 13:30:56 <VDVsx> Trewas, request new features :)
May 09 13:31:15 <VDVsx> you can help improve the app
May 09 13:31:16 <VDVsx> :D
May 09 13:31:45 <frals> only thing missing when i tried ecoach was uploading to sportstrackersite
May 09 13:32:07 <VDVsx> frals, you can upload to other site
May 09 13:32:13 <chem|st> morning
May 09 13:32:13 <TomaszD> manual gpx uploads to sportstracker are shit
May 09 13:32:16 <VDVsx> can't remember the name
May 09 13:32:30 <TomaszD> mapmytracks.com is what I use
May 09 13:32:37 <TomaszD> at least it works with gpx files
May 09 13:33:04 <chem|st> has anyone an idea how to playback music syncronous with 3 computers?
May 09 13:33:23 <VDVsx> this one-> http://www.heiaheia.com/account
May 09 13:33:26 <VDVsx> for ecoach
May 09 13:34:11 <Trewas> ecoach is missing all nice graphs what sports tracker can display :)
May 09 13:34:27 <TomaszD> yeah, but you get nice graphs on the web anyway
May 09 13:34:33 <chem|st> alterego: but alot of fixes patches and some enhancement
May 09 13:34:55 <TomaszD> I don't use ecoach as I don't think it's more useful without a data connection than the simple gps logger widget
May 09 13:35:38 <alterego> chem|st: exactly, but nothing ground breaking from a user's perspective. Which is why my mind boggles at all the PR1.2 "delay" complaints.
May 09 13:35:42 <Trewas> TomaszD: that may be, but sports tracker does not *require* using a website with it for some useful functionality
May 09 13:35:52 <TomaszD> true
May 09 13:35:52 <frals> Trewas: err, ecoach got speed and altitude/distance afaik, what else does sportstracker have?
May 09 13:36:04 <chem|st> alterego: true... but I have to keep up with them...
May 09 13:36:22 <Trewas> frals: hrm, should I enable -devel? I may have some old version :)
May 09 13:36:40 <flux> sportstracker has a nicer user interface.
May 09 13:36:48 <frals> the one i tried a week or so ago had some graphs at least, didnt pay much attention as i waso nly interested in distance and time :D
May 09 13:36:54 <chem|st> alterego: you just blank it I have to actualy read the thread and decide what to do with it
May 09 13:37:37 <alterego> I don't mind the thread, I think it's pretty hilarious.
May 09 13:38:18 <alterego> And I don't really care if it tarnishe's the N900's reputation, because in a few months when the next device comes out. That wont matter.
May 09 13:39:32 <RST38h> alterego: Of course, the next device is always the best
May 09 13:39:45 <RST38h> And the current device is always unsupported.
May 09 13:39:50 <alterego> :)
May 09 13:40:06 <mbatle> is there any problem with coroutines ? I'm trying to call a function that has a yield inside from a gui code, if the function has the yield it does not get called, if the function has not the yield it gets called ... :/
May 09 13:40:14 * Cabletwitch wonders if there are plugins for the N900's media player for mod files and the like?
May 09 13:40:43 <TomaszD> Cabletwitch, there is MOD support in devel or -testing
May 09 13:40:49 <mbatle> sorry, wrong channel :P
May 09 13:40:52 <TomaszD> or maybe even stable now
May 09 13:41:17 <TomaszD> Cabletwitch, Extra Decoders Support is also good (shameless plug)
May 09 13:41:59 * Cabletwitch goes to have a look
May 09 13:42:17 <Cabletwitch> Holy crap
May 09 13:42:34 <Cabletwitch> I go to maemo.org, and whats the selected plugin on the front page? XD
May 09 13:43:09 <TomaszD> just go to the app manager itself
May 09 13:43:50 <Cabletwitch> Oh, I know how to get the stuff.
May 09 13:44:03 <merlin1991> hm http://maemo.org/ gives me a blank page, WTF?
May 09 13:44:19 <Cabletwitch> Fine here
May 09 13:44:27 <VDVsx> fine here :D
May 09 13:44:28 <Cabletwitch> Tracker Music Module Support v1.0.4
May 09 13:44:36 <Cabletwitch> Literally, just what I was after XD
May 09 13:45:15 <Cabletwitch> Stable too.
May 09 13:45:20 <Cabletwitch> I wonder...
May 09 13:45:32 <adalal> anyone here familiar with the new titan v25 kernel?
May 09 13:45:38 * Cabletwitch would REALLY like �100k right now...
May 09 13:45:43 * Cabletwitch refreshes maemo.org
May 09 13:45:49 <Cabletwitch> Aww, crap.
May 09 13:46:41 <Cabletwitch> TomaszD: I couldnt remember, but I just checked, I do have the extra codecs you mentioned.
May 09 13:46:50 <merlin1991> everything that isn't talk.maemo.org gives me a blank page :(
May 09 13:47:58 <Cabletwitch> Works fine here, Merlin
May 09 13:48:30 <Cabletwitch> Hmm, is there any way to browse shared folders with this thing?
May 09 13:49:40 <BCMM> what sort of shared folders?
May 09 13:50:16 <Cabletwitch> Just your bog standard windows jobby.
May 09 13:50:30 <Cabletwitch> Via wifi.
May 09 13:50:55 <merlin1991> afaik there is no sambaclient yet
May 09 13:51:06 <Cabletwitch> Not so fussed about going outside the network via GPRS, mainly just so I can poke through my files in shared folders and whatnot, saves faffing with the USB cable.
May 09 13:51:16 <Cabletwitch> Ahh, ok.
May 09 13:51:21 <BCMM> Cabletwitch: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=11836 seems relevant
May 09 13:51:25 <BCMM> (haven't actually read it)
May 09 13:51:42 <BCMM> Cabletwitch: the windows file and printer sharing protocl is known as SMB
May 09 13:52:02 <BCMM> and the popular linux implementation of it is called Samba
May 09 13:52:18 <Cabletwitch> Aye, I'm aware of this.
May 09 13:52:35 <BCMM> Cabletwitch: oh, sorry
May 09 13:52:40 <Cabletwitch> I'm only a few notches above completely new, but not totally without clues ;O)
May 09 13:53:06 <BCMM> Cabletwitch: sorry, i assumed unreasonably from "bog standard windows jobby"
May 09 13:53:06 <Cabletwitch> S'ok, its good to see people actually explaining stuff.
May 09 13:53:18 <BCMM> Cabletwitch: it's actually very hard to tell in this channel
May 09 13:53:32 <Cabletwitch> Eh, I'm no network tech, but I'm not your average clueless user either.
May 09 13:53:34 <BCMM> probably because you don't know if they are coming from a Windows or Linux background
May 09 13:54:12 <BCMM> is one of the skins for the maemo forums suitable for portrait browsing?
May 09 13:54:13 <Cabletwitch> The N900 is my first dabble with linux. I managed ot lock myself out of the Suse test rig I built years ago, and gave up back then XD
May 09 13:54:30 <merlin1991> I'm not alone: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52229
May 09 13:54:58 <alterego> merlin1991: try closing your browser and opening it again ..
May 09 13:55:00 <BCMM> Cabletwitch: lock out as in break it or as in lose password?
May 09 13:55:10 <merlin1991> alterego did that already
May 09 13:55:19 <alterego> Hrm, worked for me. Oh well :P
May 09 13:55:22 <Cabletwitch> the latter.
May 09 13:55:36 <Dima_Sharihin> merlin1991, host maemo.org is down. So what?
May 09 13:55:38 <Cabletwitch> Mind you, I wasnt really up for messing with it at the time, so it was more a self-defeat.
May 09 13:56:03 <BCMM> Cabletwitch: heh, it's actually pretty easy to break into a linux box, with physical access (for most distros)
May 09 13:56:10 <BCMM> gah, how did that happen?
May 09 13:56:21 <BCMM> oh, that's just me failing to use IRC
May 09 13:56:22 <BCMM> nm
May 09 13:56:30 <Cabletwitch> Maemo.org isnt down, unless I'm connecting to it in another dimension.
May 09 13:56:40 <BCMM> Cabletwitch: it doesn't matter a great deal, since physical access always means you can root a system
May 09 13:57:08 <BCMM> but on most distros, by default, getting into a shell to change the root password just needs a few seconds of typing stuff into GRUB before boot
May 09 13:57:16 <Cabletwitch> BCMM: True, but I dont tend to mess with any OS in that depth. I'm primarily a gamer, I've no need to screw with the system in ways untold.
May 09 13:57:46 <Dima_Sharihin> merlin1991, yeah. try https:// instead of http://
May 09 13:58:27 <merlin1991> Dima_Sharihin thanks, now I just need a user :P
May 09 13:58:56 <adalal> merlin1991: it's not showing upfor me either....
May 09 13:59:25 <Dima_Sharihin> adalal, merlin1991 http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/8880/23221490.png, look, guys
May 09 14:00:10 <adalal> Dima_Sharihin: where  are you at?
May 09 14:00:26 <Dima_Sharihin> adalal, I'm in Russia :P
May 09 14:00:54 <adalal> Host 80.248.164.250 (maemo.org) is unreachable from here
May 09 14:01:15 <adalal> Host 74.86.202.247 (talk.maemo.org) is
May 09 14:01:20 <Dima_Sharihin> adalal, type in your browser : https://maemo.org
May 09 14:01:25 <Dima_Sharihin> HT
May 09 14:01:31 <Dima_Sharihin> *SECURE CONNECTION!
May 09 14:02:05 <adalal> the unsecure connection isn't working, but the secure is.. how weird
May 09 14:02:23 <korhojoa> oh em gee el oh el
May 09 14:02:54 <adalal> anywways, anyone here can help me with titan's kernel? maemo25?
May 09 14:03:40 <BCMM> maemo forum themes need to be off the list, right? no custom CSS?
May 09 14:04:05 * Cabletwitch isnt running the secure connection, and the website is working fine...
May 09 14:04:45 <Dima_Sharihin> Cabletwitch, using unsecure connection returns an empty page on request on my computer
May 09 14:04:54 * merlin1991 turns on wireshark and will check the traffic :D
May 09 14:05:21 <Dima_Sharihin> merlin1991, why?
May 09 14:05:26 <Cabletwitch> I guess I AM using the server from another dimension.
May 09 14:05:37 <Cabletwitch> And no, PR1.2 isnt out there either.
May 09 14:05:40 <merlin1991> because I want to see what exactly happens :D
May 09 14:06:52 <Dima_Sharihin> merlin1991, I think, you wouldn't find anything interesting =)
May 09 14:07:01 <pupnik> i cant get phototranslate running yet.  trying to find the right libqt4 libraries
May 09 14:08:44 <merlin1991> Dima_Sharihin yeah didn't find anything :D
May 09 14:09:39 <merlin1991> but I'm scared though what I found
May 09 14:09:44 <Dima_Sharihin> ???
May 09 14:10:20 <merlin1991> I have tons of http traffic running even though my browser and everything that should do http crap is turned off :D
May 09 14:10:46 <Dima_Sharihin> merlin1991, which browser do you use?
May 09 14:10:51 <merlin1991> mozilla
May 09 14:10:57 <merlin1991> err firefox :D
May 09 14:11:05 <Dima_Sharihin> huh... may be =]
May 09 14:11:15 * Dima_Sharihin using Chrome =)
May 09 14:13:41 <Arkenoi> is there any WIP to make fMMS a telepathy plugin?
May 09 14:14:28 <merlin1991> ah well it's ssdp crap that gets marked as http for some reason
May 09 14:14:44 <jacekowski> i don't think you can send pictures with telepathy
May 09 14:16:00 <timeless_mbp> merlin1991: um
May 09 14:16:10 <timeless_mbp> you realize that just about everything uses http, right?
May 09 14:16:20 <timeless_mbp> if you have a proxy configured, you're probably using http w/ it
May 09 14:16:22 <adalal> again, any one here aware of how to use titans v25 kernel?
May 09 14:16:35 <timeless_mbp> if you're using some random communication protocol, there's an even chance it's using http
May 09 14:16:46 <timeless_mbp> if you have application manager configured w/ repositories, it's using http
May 09 14:17:15 <timeless_mbp> (mms actually ends up speaking http'ish to servers too)
May 09 14:18:44 <DocScrutinizer51> friggin farts-over-http
May 09 14:19:55 <BCMM> adalal: It would appear that nobody here is
May 09 14:20:01 <adalal> fine
May 09 14:20:04 <adalal> i'll b back later
May 09 14:20:05 <adalal> cya
May 09 14:20:16 <DocScrutinizer51> some devels seems to think there's been no other protocol prior to http, and there's no chance for anz better protocol
May 09 14:21:08 <lcuk> pupnik, phototranslate?
May 09 14:21:50 <DocScrutinizer51> uh?
May 09 14:22:09 <DocScrutinizer51> ooh I need glasses
May 09 14:22:19 <DocScrutinizer51> read phototransistor
May 09 14:23:57 <BCMM> adalal: http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power - i think this is all there is
May 09 14:24:36 <BCMM> if that isn't enough, i suggest you avoid breaking your device
May 09 14:25:12 <BCMM> adalal: http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power#Configuring_the_kernel_settings_.28of_the_experimental_version_from_extras-devel.29 , i mean
May 09 14:25:21 <Arkenoi> actually i never received an MMS for several months. i mean, no one even tried to send it to me ever since i got n900 and it happened just 2 times previous year.
May 09 14:26:57 <merlin1991> hm is there a documentation off all systemwide keyboardshortcuts somewhere?
May 09 14:29:27 <b-man> i finally got right click working in Fedora12 on my N900 :) http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fedora/Screenshot-11.png
May 09 14:30:21 <pupnik> oy how b-man
May 09 14:32:03 <b-man> all it really required was the libgtkstylus package that i compiled from OpenSUSE sources and a simple little xsessions script
May 09 14:32:20 <DocScrutinizer> I never sent or received a MMS in my life. Naah wait, one time we tried to send a video with 'happy birthday' to a friend, from another friend's cellphone, but it never arrived
May 09 14:32:46 <b-man> not sure why Fedora doesn't provide libgtkstylus in their distro
May 09 14:32:49 <lcuk> i think b-man is a really cool guy.  eh makes right click work and doesn't afraid of anything
May 09 14:32:57 <b-man> lol
May 09 14:33:18 <lcuk> that looks ocol, is it done by long tap?
May 09 14:33:22 <lcuk> or a modifier?
May 09 14:33:25 <b-man> yup
May 09 14:33:38 <b-man> just a long tap :)
May 09 14:33:52 <lcuk> cool enough
May 09 14:34:04 <lcuk> how well does it run?
May 09 14:34:09 <lcuk> not just the taps
May 09 14:34:13 <lcuk> i mean the system overall
May 09 14:34:31 <b-man> it runs quite well
May 09 14:34:50 <b-man> although there will be a slight pause occasionally
May 09 14:35:00 <b-man> but swap takes care of that :)
May 09 14:35:03 <lcuk> everybody has slight pauses
May 09 14:37:52 <b-man_f12-rx51> :)
May 09 14:37:57 <lcuk> MohammadAG, 'wow' moments thread:   http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650497#post650497
May 09 14:37:58 <Dima_Sharihin> b-man, I think, the interface of fedora12 looks better than hildon =)))
May 09 14:38:11 <b-man_f12-rx51> indeed xD
May 09 14:38:24 <lcuk> b-man_f12-rx51, videos?
May 09 14:39:14 <b-man_f12-rx51> don't have videos yet
May 09 14:39:25 <MohammadAG> lcuk, hehehe :)
May 09 14:40:00 <b-man|laptop> i still need to get BME working, right now it just drains the battery lol
May 09 14:40:14 <b-man|laptop> (can't charge)
May 09 14:40:49 <b-man_f12-rx51> i also need to make a proper xmodmap
May 09 14:41:13 <alterego> MohammadAG: that's nice :)
May 09 14:41:25 <b-man_f12-rx51> right now it's just using xkb from maemo
May 09 14:41:49 <b-man_f12-rx51> so i have most of the keys working
May 09 14:41:58 <MohammadAG> alterego, might put up lcuk's version tomorrow :)
May 09 14:42:10 <alterego> MohammadAG: using sysfs?
May 09 14:42:11 <b-man_f12-rx51> but i also need to get mce working
May 09 14:42:32 <MohammadAG> alterego, yeah
May 09 14:42:32 <b-man_f12-rx51> which should not take too long
May 09 14:42:50 <Dima_Sharihin> b-man_f12-rx51, could you make phone calls using f12?
May 09 14:43:04 <alterego> MohammadAG: which interface? presumable leds? is that the lp5523:kbX stuff?
May 09 14:43:06 <korhojoa> b-man_f12-rx51: how the deuce did you get right click?
May 09 14:43:11 <SpeedEvil> alterego: yes
May 09 14:43:21 <alterego> Cool
May 09 14:43:21 <MohammadAG> alterego, ^
May 09 14:43:29 * SpeedEvil notes he did the knight-rider thing 5 months ago.
May 09 14:43:32 <b-man_f12-rx51> Dima_Sharihin: theoretically yes :)
May 09 14:43:34 <alterego> Heh
May 09 14:43:43 * MohammadAG slaps SpeedEvil for not releasing it
May 09 14:44:09 <b-man_f12-rx51> korhojoa: libgtkstylus+xsession script
May 09 14:44:50 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: I did!
May 09 14:44:56 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG: I typed it right here.
May 09 14:45:27 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, I wasn't "here" 5 months ago ;)
May 09 14:45:44 <MohammadAG> (can't bother to go back 5 months into the povbot logs)
May 09 14:47:11 <MohammadAG> knowing SpeedEvil he'll either not reply or link me to the logs
May 09 14:47:32 <DocScrutinizer51> ehlo MohammadAG
May 09 14:47:51 <crashanddie> SpeedEvil: actually, there's only one reference to "knight rider" and "speedevil" in the povbot logs
May 09 14:47:54 <crashanddie> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2009-09-25.log.html
May 09 14:47:56 <MohammadAG> hey DocScrutinizer51
May 09 14:49:02 <SpeedEvil> 2010-01-25.230051+0000GMT.txt:(08:35:33 AM) SpeedEvil: for x in /sys/class/leds/*kb*;do echo 100 >$x/brightness;done
May 09 14:49:35 <alterego> SpeedEvil: strange how that file doesn't reflect the state of the backlight when it's on normally ..
May 09 14:50:02 <SpeedEvil> yeah
May 09 14:50:07 <alterego> for x in /sys/class/leds/*kb*; do echo 100 > $x/brightness; done
May 09 14:50:14 <alterego> for x in /sys/class/leds/*kb*; do echo 50 > $x/brightness; done
May 09 14:50:25 <alterego> Hah
May 09 14:50:30 <lcuk> MohammadAG, i twitted the link to the liqbubbles code (which has the keyboard lighting in) last night
May 09 14:50:32 <DocScrutinizer51> haha
May 09 14:50:33 <alterego> cut&paste fail.
May 09 14:50:44 <lcuk> to the liqbubbles code
May 09 14:51:07 <MohammadAG> lcuk, now push to -devel :)
May 09 14:51:21 <lcuk> meh that requires package and icons
May 09 14:51:29 <MohammadAG> lcuk, it can be made into a daemon right?
May 09 14:51:31 <alterego> How come they don't stay on?
May 09 14:51:32 <lcuk> yours is closer i made you a proto debian
May 09 14:51:44 <lcuk> alterego, they get turned on and off
May 09 14:51:44 <SpeedEvil> alterego: I think it's MCE
May 09 14:51:49 <lcuk> any combination can remain on
May 09 14:51:53 <MohammadAG> alterego, blame mce
May 09 14:51:59 <alterego> Heh, m'kay
May 09 14:52:07 <alterego> Is that why youcan only do flashing effects MohammadAG ;)
May 09 14:52:08 <MohammadAG> or shut it down and they *SHOULD* stay on
May 09 14:52:11 <MohammadAG> actually
May 09 14:52:11 <lcuk> http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/13642303906
May 09 14:52:14 <lcuk> alterego, see that
May 09 14:52:19 <MohammadAG> R&D
May 09 14:52:24 <DocScrutinizer51> for x in 1 2@e 4 5 6 5 43 2; do echo 200 >kb$x/brightness; sleep 0.5= echo 0 >kb$x/brightness; done
May 09 14:52:24 <lcuk> pressing nearest key to the light illuminates it
May 09 14:52:26 <lcuk> and keeps it on
May 09 14:52:40 <lcuk> turns the keyboard into a 6 key chord
May 09 14:53:02 <Dima_Sharihin> DocScrutinizer, what are you doing with backlight? О_о
May 09 14:53:09 <alterego> I almost managed to get maemo to boot in qemu
May 09 14:53:20 <alterego> Unfortunately, it seems one of the drivers kills it.
May 09 14:53:26 <alterego> Stops init somehow.
May 09 14:53:48 <DocScrutinizer51> Dima_Sharihin: made yours explode :-P
May 09 14:55:09 <lcuk> MohammadAG, ill make the package for it in a bit
May 09 14:55:12 <alterego> I think it's the SGX stuff ..
May 09 14:55:24 <alterego> Then I get: omap-mcbsp omap-mcbsp.2: McBSP FIR load error!
May 09 14:56:28 <alterego> Still getting quite a bit of dmesg activity though.
May 09 14:56:43 <alterego> But login prompt becomes unresponsive.
May 09 15:11:19 <deafboy> hello there
May 09 15:12:03 <pupnik> mahlzeit
May 09 15:13:46 <deafboy> can I ask someone with workink maemo 5 sdk for a favour? :P (or am I on right place to ask for help?)
May 09 15:15:18 <deafboy> I was looking for the app called sbagen, but cannot find it. Maybe it was not ported to maemo yet. There is some ARM version on official site of project, but I cannot run in on n900
May 09 15:15:32 <Dima_Sharihin> lol. I tried to install the maemo sdk 5 or more times... every time it failed
May 09 15:17:20 <deafboy> there is source code available on http://uazu.net/sbagen/#download if there is anyone who can compile it I woud be verry happy :P
May 09 15:29:00 <johnsq> Hi
May 09 15:29:53 <MohammadAG> hey johnsq
May 09 15:33:02 <thecat> johnsq: Can i ask something via Q ?
May 09 15:46:46 <johnsq> thecat: ask the original Q
May 09 15:48:19 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ask
May 09 15:48:19 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
May 09 15:51:57 <deafboy> still waiting for some good soul who can compile sbagen for me :)
May 09 16:06:39 <RST38h> <
May 09 16:07:58 <b-man|laptop>    
May 09 16:08:19 <zlimvos_> any ideas, easiest way to transfer contacts from windows mobile to maemo contact book (n900)
May 09 16:09:03 <zlimvos_> with no installation of outlook involved :)
May 09 16:10:57 <Ken-Young> zlimvos, THis may not be the easiest way, but exporting them as vCard format. and reading them in on the N900 works.
May 09 16:11:24 <zlimvos> ok i thought vcard is for one by one contacts
May 09 16:12:00 <Ken-Young> zlimvos, I was able to export all my gmail contacts that way, in a single file.
May 09 16:12:07 <haltdef> my WM phone was setup to sync with google apps, I just made my n900 do the same and it imported everything :p
May 09 16:12:49 <zlimvos> hehe cheers haltdef this is even better. so i have also my contacts online
May 09 16:13:03 <zlimvos> and ofcourse mother google as well :/
May 09 16:22:59 <Shapeshifter> huh
May 09 16:23:14 <Shapeshifter> that pattern is awesome. I didn't know parts of the keyboard could be turned off independently
May 09 16:23:24 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: yup
May 09 16:26:27 <Shapeshifter> so there are 6 independent leds
May 09 16:27:50 <SpeedEvil> THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
May 09 16:27:56 <SpeedEvil> err - yes - 6
May 09 16:28:25 <SpeedEvil> and the IR LED, and the red LED on the camera, and the flash, and the backlight, of course
May 09 16:28:49 <SpeedEvil> Oh - and power LED
May 09 16:29:11 <SpeedEvil> And the prox sensor
May 09 16:30:49 <Cabletwitch> Can anyone else make out the backlights though the screen on their 900?
May 09 16:31:06 <SpeedEvil> Yes - but not as distinct lights
May 09 16:31:18 <SpeedEvil> It's a real pity the backlight LEDs are not individually controllable
May 09 16:31:20 <Cabletwitch> Huh, must just be my unit then.
May 09 16:31:25 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, can they be controlled individually?
May 09 16:31:25 <Funnyface> I have lots of points on the screen that look like cracks
May 09 16:31:29 <lcuk> lol
May 09 16:31:36 <Funnyface> especially visible on white
May 09 16:31:52 <lcuk> you been watching too much doctor who
May 09 16:32:03 <Cabletwitch> I have a couple in the center and right side that are somewhat visible when the screen is fully white, such as a webpage background.
May 09 16:32:07 <lcuk> can you show me what you mean?
May 09 16:32:19 <Cabletwitch> Sure, let me press my N900 to the screen...
May 09 16:32:20 <lcuk> ith a photo
May 09 16:32:21 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: If they were - it raises all sorts of fun uses - like sunlight visible 'patches' - even with the screen mostly off, to save power
May 09 16:32:31 <lcuk> yeah SpeedEvil
May 09 16:32:54 <lcuk> taking the thing from MohammadAG's AV meter - i made it do that for the keyboard
May 09 16:33:01 <lcuk> if you press a cluster of keys nearest the led
May 09 16:33:04 <lcuk> it keeps them lit
May 09 16:33:21 <jacekowski> pr1.2?
May 09 16:33:21 * SpeedEvil ponders a 'simon' game.
May 09 16:33:27 <Funnyface> is there any way to make the screen not turn completely off when the phone is locked?
May 09 16:33:36 <Cabletwitch> I'm considering.. and only in theory... that putting some clear epoxy with the same refractive index as the LED casing around the problem LEDs might spread the light a bit more evenly.
May 09 16:33:37 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, have a look, code is in .py http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/13642303906
May 09 16:33:46 <Funnyface> just as in, it keeps the image on the screen, but turns off the backlight completely
May 09 16:33:56 <SpeedEvil> Cabletwitch: Don't screw with it.
May 09 16:34:07 <Cabletwitch> You think I would?
May 09 16:34:13 <Funnyface> when my device resets, it sometimes displays the nokia splash screen without backlight so I know the device should be capable of doing it :p
May 09 16:34:14 <SpeedEvil> Cabletwitch: Optical design in small things is damn hard. You are almost certain to make it worse
May 09 16:34:35 <lcuk> jesus Cabletwitch that would kill
May 09 16:34:42 <lcuk> i once had a chip on my crt monitor
May 09 16:34:46 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: Regrettably, unlike old phones, colour LCDs use a fair whack of power just to keep a static image.
May 09 16:34:56 <Cabletwitch> Buddy, I work with trains. Everything is pretty much fixable with a sharp blow. I'm not going to mess with the insides of my cherished awesome-phone ;O)
May 09 16:35:06 <Funnyface> ah ok
May 09 16:35:09 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: even with no backlight
May 09 16:35:32 <Funnyface> how much is a "fair whack"? :P
May 09 16:35:32 <Cabletwitch> If it cant be fixed with a hammer, I dont touch it.
May 09 16:35:37 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: 80mA
May 09 16:35:45 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: This is about 15 hour life
May 09 16:35:46 <Funnyface> hmm that's be a power drainer then
May 09 16:35:57 <Funnyface> d*
May 09 16:36:03 <zash> SpeedEvil: how much do you think the 3310 screen uses at idle?
May 09 16:36:28 <SpeedEvil> zash: IIRC - I measured it - it's 0.3mA or something stupid
May 09 16:36:42 <SpeedEvil> So well under a percent
May 09 16:37:24 <zash> SpeedEvil: and what happend to using e-ink for phones?
May 09 16:37:39 <Funnyface> what's the advantage of this new kind of LCD over the old ones then? quicker crystals?
May 09 16:37:50 <MohammadAG> zash, ink dried out
May 09 16:37:54 <dotblank> what epaper?
May 09 16:38:06 <SpeedEvil> zash: e-ink is comparatively expensive
May 09 16:38:14 <SpeedEvil> zash: and requires licensing from e-ink
May 09 16:38:15 <Funnyface> I have some Nokia 6300 here with a display that I think is good
May 09 16:38:23 <SpeedEvil> zash: Also - it's black and white only and slow update
May 09 16:38:31 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: Colour, resolution, speed
May 09 16:38:36 <dotblank> but it uses little to no power
May 09 16:38:38 <zash> SpeedEvil: So is my 3310 when it's cold
May 09 16:39:06 <lcuk> eink only draws power whilst transitioning between states
May 09 16:39:23 <SpeedEvil> Broadly.
May 09 16:39:47 <SpeedEvil> E-ink hasn't appeared on many phones as the customers seem to value shiny colour screen over everything.
May 09 16:39:58 <SpeedEvil> Or at least the mobile companies assume they do.
May 09 16:40:06 <Funnyface> anyway speed, are you sure that the 80mA actually drains 80mA from the battery?
May 09 16:40:12 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 09 16:40:22 <SpeedEvil> That's measured at the battery.
May 09 16:40:33 <Funnyface> oh
May 09 16:40:36 <SpeedEvil> I hould really convert it to mW - but meh.
May 09 16:41:02 <Funnyface> well the voltage is somewhat constant so
May 09 16:41:10 <zash> 80mA showing a static image without backlight? on n900?
May 09 16:41:22 <Funnyface> apparently
May 09 16:41:28 <SpeedEvil> zash: yes
May 09 16:41:38 <lcuk> depends on backlight level surely
May 09 16:41:53 <SpeedEvil> backlight off
May 09 16:42:04 <SpeedEvil> backlight on is 180mA more
May 09 16:42:05 <lcuk> turning down the brightness a notch can gain lots of battery life
May 09 16:42:34 <SpeedEvil> Backlight at minimum is functionally the same as backlight off WRT power use
May 09 16:42:38 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, do you have numbers for each level?
May 09 16:42:39 <zash> SpeedEvil: how does that compare to other smartphones with big screens?
May 09 16:42:49 <Funnyface> well, I won't complain about the N900's battery life, compared to HTC winmo phones I've used in the past
May 09 16:42:51 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, how can that be?
May 09 16:42:57 <Shapeshifter> has someone been able to install festival? Here it complains festival: Depends: adduser (>= 3.105) but 3.102maemo1 is to be installed
May 09 16:42:57 <SpeedEvil> zash: Send me the smartphones in question, and I shall measure them.
May 09 16:43:00 <lcuk> minimum must draw more power than none?
May 09 16:43:08 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Oh - it does
May 09 16:43:34 <Funnyface> I am sure this N900 battery lasts longer than my HTC's high capacity battery :P
May 09 16:43:38 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: but the difference between no backlight - 80mA - minimum backlight - 85mA - and maximum backlight - 260mA - isn't large.
May 09 16:43:54 <lcuk> right
May 09 16:44:00 <SpeedEvil> the difference between the two lowest states isn't large I mean
May 09 16:44:01 <lcuk> so minimum backlighting is 5ma?
May 09 16:44:29 <lcuk> any chance you can measure each backlight step
May 09 16:44:37 <Funnyface> I do however hope that someone will create a high capacity battery that's about 1.5x the size of the original one, with a back cover that doesn't point out like sharp edges on top of the battery compartment
May 09 16:44:42 <zash> How much does the resolution count?
May 09 16:44:49 <lcuk> and extrapolate the extra time that would give
May 09 16:44:58 <Funnyface> but just about as far as the camera lens
May 09 16:45:01 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: that would mean reacing 18", umplugging my phone, and getting out from under the covers.
May 09 16:45:19 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, :) later on ill shout you a bacon butty when we meet
May 09 16:45:43 <lcuk> zash, doesnt matter we cant easily change resolution of native maemo
May 09 16:45:49 * SpeedEvil unplugs phone, and waits for battery to stabilise.
May 09 16:46:01 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: the screen is a fixed resolution.
May 09 16:46:03 <lcuk> but even if we could, that wouldnt effect the lcd
May 09 16:46:10 <lcuk> sure SpeedEvil
May 09 16:46:11 <SpeedEvil> There are several causes of power drain.
May 09 16:46:17 <lcuk> but xvideo yuv modes are variable
May 09 16:46:20 <zash> lupine_85: meant on other devices
May 09 16:46:23 <lcuk> i can supply 200*200 if i want
May 09 16:46:26 <SpeedEvil> The LCD being on. The LCD being actively clocked, and having data to it.
May 09 16:46:29 <lcuk> and not waste bandwith on the bus
May 09 16:46:44 <SpeedEvil> The supply of that data from the SoC - which has to have at least some functional units awake.
May 09 16:46:54 <SpeedEvil> In some cases reducing bit depth can help
May 09 16:47:14 <SpeedEvil> going to 4 bits from 24 on an older laptop gained 10% battery life at minimum brightness
May 09 16:48:26 <zash> hm, how would pixel qi compare
May 09 16:51:54 <Chiku> I installed openssh add public key for root account and it works. I added same key for user account and it deosn't work :(
May 09 16:52:01 <Shapeshifter> Is the packages page broken? http://maemo.org/packages
May 09 16:52:03 * DocScrutinizer waves as now it's definitely boozetime to drink away the frustration of time going by SOOO fast
May 09 16:52:04 <Chiku> how come?
May 09 16:52:24 <dotblank> maemo.org is down for me
May 09 16:52:44 <Shapeshifter> ah yes.
May 09 16:52:52 <Shapeshifter> this time, tmo is still alive ;)
May 09 16:52:56 <DocScrutinizer> Chiku: passwd user;
May 09 16:53:12 <DocScrutinizer> Chiku: also check directory permisions
May 09 16:53:13 <Chiku> DocScrutinizer, what about ssh key?
May 09 16:53:33 <DocScrutinizer> It needs a password set, otherwise won't work
May 09 16:53:38 <Chiku> oh
May 09 16:53:39 <Chiku> ok
May 09 16:53:42 <DocScrutinizer> don't ask me why
May 09 16:53:50 <Jaffa> Af'noon all
May 09 16:54:23 <MohammadAG> hey Jaffa
May 09 16:54:38 <DocScrutinizer> Chiku: probably some issue with '!' vs '*' in /etc/passwd
May 09 16:54:45 <Chiku> ok DocScrutinizer it works now, just need passwd fro user account
May 09 16:54:54 <DocScrutinizer> toldya
May 09 16:54:56 <DocScrutinizer> :-
May 09 16:54:57 <MohammadAG> passwd user
May 09 16:54:59 <DocScrutinizer> )
May 09 16:55:23 <MohammadAG> muhahaha i broke your smiley
May 09 16:55:37 <DocScrutinizer> yes :-
May 09 16:55:44 <DocScrutinizer> (
May 09 16:56:11 <Shapeshifter> https://maemo.org/ works (http does not)
May 09 16:56:42 <Chiku> does ssh x forwarding work?
May 09 16:56:46 <dotblank> good observation
May 09 16:56:51 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, bye maemo - preparing for the champagne
May 09 16:56:54 <Dima_Sharihin> plz, append https://maemo.org to the topic
May 09 16:57:11 <DocScrutinizer> huh?
May 09 16:57:24 <SpeedEvil> Ok - maximum - 215 - one down 135, middle, 100, second lowest,  85, lowest 65, off
May 09 16:57:26 <andres> Is there a trick to get debugging info from the calendar app?
May 09 16:57:26 <SpeedEvil> lcuk
May 09 16:57:37 <andres> I want to import a ics file and it siltently does nothing.
May 09 16:57:57 <Dima_Sharihin> bothers to answer the questions: "Why maemo.org doesn't works"
May 09 16:58:00 <jacekowski> Shapeshifter: itworks here
May 09 16:58:12 <jacekowski> i have no problems with http://maemo.org
May 09 16:58:48 <DocScrutinizer> works exceptionally fast and flawlessly today
May 09 16:58:54 <Shapeshifter> jacekowski: for me and many others all maemo.org pages except tmo are blank white.
May 09 16:58:57 <dotblank> seems to be on/off
May 09 16:58:59 <deafboy> I have problems with it on one PC with abroad proxy, but from my home connection works fine
May 09 16:59:16 <jacekowski> it works perfectly here
May 09 16:59:25 <DocScrutinizer> WFM
May 09 16:59:35 <SpeedEvil> WFMT
May 09 16:59:46 <jacekowski> and it's not cacahe
May 09 16:59:48 <jacekowski> cache
May 09 16:59:51 <jacekowski> i've just cleared it
May 09 16:59:53 <deafboy> but subdomains working everywhere for me
May 09 17:00:35 <Dima_Sharihin> strange working maemo.org =)
May 09 17:01:09 <jacekowski> it doesn't work from my server in france
May 09 17:01:22 <jacekowski> so something is FU
May 09 17:01:44 <Shapeshifter> anyway, does anyone have an idea how to install festival? woglinde made a package but it depends on stuff that is missing, see: https://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/festival/1.96~beta-10maemo1/
May 09 17:01:58 <Shapeshifter> "festival: Depends: adduser (>= 3.105) but 3.102maemo1 is to be installed"
May 09 17:02:15 <Dima_Sharihin> Shapeshifter, apt-get -f install?
May 09 17:02:31 <Shapeshifter> Dima_Sharihin: I tried that, it doesn't help
May 09 17:02:43 <jacekowski> dpkg --force-all
May 09 17:02:54 <Dima_Sharihin> jacekowski, it is bad way
May 09 17:05:00 <jacekowski> it's the only way
May 09 17:05:05 <Shapeshifter> thanks guys
May 09 17:05:34 * timeless_mbp wonders what version is in pr1.2
May 09 17:05:52 <jacekowski> besides, i've played a bit with festival
May 09 17:06:02 <jacekowski> and it's not even close to commercial spech synthetishers
May 09 17:06:11 <timeless_mbp> why is anyone depending on a high version of adduser anyway?
May 09 17:07:01 <timeless_mbp> someone should make festival depend on adduser (>= 3.0)
May 09 17:07:58 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: off is 60 or so
May 09 17:08:59 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: what u r talking bout?
May 09 17:09:03 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, cool
May 09 17:09:15 <lcuk> so sitting on the middle bar is less than half the drain of the top
May 09 17:09:26 <DocScrutinizer51> aah
May 09 17:09:27 <DocScrutinizer51> k
May 09 17:09:35 <lcuk> and the biggest jump does come from the highest brightness
May 09 17:09:35 <Chiku> Version: 3.102maemo1
May 09 17:10:02 <DocScrutinizer51> I always claimed
May 09 17:10:36 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: the brightness scales are logarithmic.
May 09 17:10:51 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: you need a 50% jump to be even slightly noticable
May 09 17:10:53 <DocScrutinizer51> watch out! brightness is a function of ALS too
May 09 17:11:14 <Chiku> there is no new leak PR1.2 for  adduser (>= 3.105) ? :)
May 09 17:11:20 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, i normally sit on the middle brightness
May 09 17:11:55 <DocScrutinizer51> I normally sit in dark room .-P
May 09 17:12:15 <Shapeshifter> jacekowski: where did you get a language from and how did you install it? seems like the deb doesn't ship with any language
May 09 17:12:27 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51, thats because you tried to install linux on the last cell which had windows
May 09 17:12:36 <Dima_Sharihin> I normally sit on the chair %)
May 09 17:12:40 <jacekowski> Shapeshifter: i was using it on a pc
May 09 17:12:55 <DocScrutinizer51> XD
May 09 17:12:58 <Shapeshifter> jacekowski: ah
May 09 17:14:11 <DocScrutinizer51> lcuk: anywaykeep in mind that's rather random and dependent on amb light
May 09 17:14:26 <lcuk> of course it is
May 09 17:14:50 <lcuk> thats hwy qwertys simple backlight applet works
May 09 17:14:52 <lcuk> why
May 09 17:14:56 <DocScrutinizer51> even on screen content as N900 has dynamic backlight
May 09 17:19:14 <DocScrutinizer51> lcuk: (qwerty's sba) how that?
May 09 17:20:23 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51, http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/simple-brightness-applet/
May 09 17:21:42 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm prolly no simple explanation over there on why you state it works due to ALS
May 09 17:23:40 <Chiku> did zsh ported on meamo?
May 09 17:24:16 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Oh yes - I forgot to mention - the above was with the n900 in the near-complete dark
May 09 17:25:35 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, reasonable enough
May 09 17:29:45 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, holding your N900 with left hand, thump on upper left corner increases active time by factor 7
May 09 17:30:02 <DocScrutinizer51> thumb*
May 09 17:33:35 <lcuk> lol DocScrutinizer51 thumping on anything tends to decrease activetime
May 09 17:34:19 <DocScrutinizer51> ~dict thumping
May 09 17:34:30 <Chiku> somone released debtest package from unknow@unknow.com
May 09 17:34:53 <DocScrutinizer51> infobot: ping
May 09 17:34:53 <infobot> ~pong
May 09 17:35:05 <DocScrutinizer51> ~ping
May 09 17:35:05 <infobot> ~pong
May 09 17:35:11 <infobot> Dictionary 'thumping' (3 of 5): a heavy dull sound (as made by impact of heavy objects)  ;; \Thump"ing\, a. Heavy; large. [Colloq.] [1913 Webster] ;; (used informally) very large; "a thumping loss" .
May 09 17:35:17 <DocScrutinizer51> wooow
May 09 17:35:24 <DocScrutinizer51> fast as lightning
May 09 17:37:12 <DocScrutinizer51> unk now
May 09 17:37:54 <Shapeshifter> btw. there was talk about all the pr1.2 autobuilder problems being fixed but I still get missing dependency errors for qt related stuff. E.g. here's a google latitude update, which says it's missing libqt4-core >= 4.6.2
May 09 17:39:12 <DocScrutinizer51> Shapeshifter: hmm, I second that
May 09 17:39:25 <lcuk> Shapeshifter, it was fixed for apps that do not use new api features
May 09 17:39:36 <DocScrutinizer51> aah
May 09 17:39:58 <lcuk> ie, the autobuilder checks the actual used methods and classes and supplies the earliest dependency which fulfills
May 09 17:40:28 <lcuk> thereby allowing people with 1.1 to continue to use even newly updated apps (providing they dont try to use the later funcitonality)
May 09 17:41:07 <Shapeshifter> mh
May 09 17:41:19 <lcuk> at least thats how i think it works
May 09 17:41:49 <lcuk> javispedro or X-Fade or jaffa perhaps might be able to clarify
May 09 17:42:10 <omar_> hey guys just went to bed left my phone idle and ran htop. noticed hildon-status menu used over a minute of my cpu. how can i determine which applet did that?
May 09 17:42:39 <omar_> i have a feeling it's the missed call notification
May 09 17:42:39 <lcuk> omar_, using a minute of cpu might not be a bad thing
May 09 17:42:45 <lcuk> if your uptime is long
May 09 17:43:33 <omar_> lcuk, i went to bed the other night and did same thing and didn't even see it use any cpu
May 09 17:43:54 <lcuk> did it cause undesired battery drain?
May 09 17:44:03 <omar_> aye
May 09 17:44:23 <omar_> hildon-statusmenu shows 1:26.98 and the 2nd thing on the list is xorg showing 0:20.12
May 09 17:44:30 <omar_> completely idle
May 09 17:44:47 <Chiku> which rss client/widget are your prefered ?
May 09 17:44:48 <Shapeshifter> mh
May 09 17:45:05 <Shapeshifter> bme_RX51 uses enourmous amount of time
May 09 17:45:18 <Shapeshifter> just as much as Xorg.
May 09 17:45:36 <DocScrutinizer51> eeeek
May 09 17:45:45 <omar_> Shapeshifter, yeah the other night the only 2 things that i saw using cpu while idle were  bme_RX51 and dbus_daemon
May 09 17:46:08 <DocScrutinizer51> well good, so flames for jrbme won't be that hot
May 09 17:47:04 <DocScrutinizer51> probably I'll even get better than original bme
May 09 17:48:38 <Shapeshifter> probably
May 09 17:50:57 <Cabletwitch> I'm pretty sure I understood more while I was on holiday in Japan than I do in here. Its like some mystical arcane language, spoken only in riddle and rhyme.
May 09 17:54:17 <DocScrutinizer> yay, was about to start a Vogon poem. But I found you're not worthy ;-P
May 09 17:56:25 <DocScrutinizer> omar_: maybe radio meter?
May 09 17:56:54 <DocScrutinizer> err GSM signal applet
May 09 17:57:39 <DocScrutinizer> anyway 1 minute CPU isn't really bad
May 09 17:58:17 <DocScrutinizer> or, wait. Did your battery charge?
May 09 17:58:36 <DocScrutinizer> (seen the animated icon? ;-P)
May 09 18:00:53 <DocScrutinizer> omar_: your battery by any chance was completely charged when you 'went to bed the other night' and it charged for hours and hours 'yesterday'?
May 09 18:01:34 <omar_> DocScrutinizer nope i left my battery off charger to see battery drain
May 09 18:01:43 <DocScrutinizer> aah, k
May 09 18:01:51 <DocScrutinizer> too bad, was a nice story
May 09 18:01:51 <omar_> DocScrutinizer i don't have radio meter, i think it's the missed call notification that's the only thing i remmeber installing
May 09 18:02:04 <omar_> also for some reason my wifi switcher reboots my phone now
May 09 18:02:10 <omar_> instead of disablingw lan
May 09 18:02:11 <omar_> wlan*
May 09 18:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> for sure you have a gsm signal strength bar
May 09 18:02:22 <omar_> oh
May 09 18:02:23 <omar_> yeah
May 09 18:02:30 <DocScrutinizer> at least if you got a SIM
May 09 18:02:31 <omar_> lol i was thinking radio FM transmitter :)
May 09 18:04:01 <DocScrutinizer> modem sending signal-level at random, whenever the RF situation changes (I.E it omits msgs via dbus when signal didn't change), so it's rather hard to tell
May 09 18:04:43 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, should we start the "DocScrutinizer blew up his N900 and needs a prosthetic lap" fund now? :P
May 09 18:04:53 <DocScrutinizer> I'd stop to worry as long as it's not more than 1 or 2 minutes CPU
May 09 18:04:55 <alterego> Heh
May 09 18:05:22 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: why do you think so?
May 09 18:05:31 <omar_> it's more than 1.5 mins of cpu ;/
May 09 18:05:41 <omar_> when everything else is less than 30 secs
May 09 18:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> omar_: don't worry
May 09 18:06:01 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, because you're re-writing BME? :P
May 09 18:06:11 <DocScrutinizer> as long as it's not 30 minutes
May 09 18:06:29 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: well, let's wait and see
May 09 18:06:31 <GAN900> Not that we don't have complete faith in your skills. ;)
May 09 18:06:42 <DocScrutinizer> gnhnhnh
May 09 18:07:40 <DocScrutinizer> I'm really worried about BME's link to PA
May 09 18:07:48 <DocScrutinizer> no idea what that's for
May 09 18:08:21 <MohammadAG_> probably nothing
May 09 18:08:32 <MohammadAG_> just like the case of my PC (got rid of that one)
May 09 18:08:45 <DocScrutinizer> gives me worries - and since today I'm an old fart who doesn't like worries
May 09 18:08:59 * DocScrutinizer waves
May 09 18:09:06 <DocScrutinizer> ttyl #maemo
May 09 18:09:34 <Jaffa> Shapeshifter: If you're using Qt, you're a bit screwed at the moment. You could try using qt4-maemo5 packages (what qt4-experimental used to be called) with a version constraint
May 09 18:10:16 <Cabletwitch> Damnit, everytime I see Qt, I think "Why would anyone try to program stuff in Quicktime?"
May 09 18:10:23 <Shapeshifter> PA?
May 09 18:10:50 <Shapeshifter> Jaffa: mhh
May 09 18:11:41 <omar_> hehe
May 09 18:11:47 <lcuk> The following errors occurred with your submission
May 09 18:11:47 <lcuk>          1. This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 13 seconds.
May 09 18:12:17 <frals> stop spamming the forum lcuk!
May 09 18:12:40 <lcuk> frals occasionally caught by such things
May 09 18:12:49 <lcuk> how are you on this sunnyday
May 09 18:12:55 <timeless> gan900/jaffa: how are birthday events supposed to work w/ the n900?
May 09 18:13:21 <frals> completely knackered, suspect sleeping 16hrs was a bad idea
May 09 18:13:42 <alterego> frals: I hate over sleeping :(
May 09 18:13:48 <alterego> Tend to do it a lot with hangovers :S
May 09 18:14:30 <frals> hadnt even been out, guess thats what was wrong :P
May 09 18:14:54 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps:
May 09 18:14:57 <DocScrutinizer> connect(3, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/tmp/.bmesrv"}, 110) = 0
May 09 18:14:58 <DocScrutinizer> writev(3, [{"SYNC\10\0\0\0", 8}, {"BMentity", 8}], 2) = 16
May 09 18:15:08 <DocScrutinizer> recv(3, "SYNC\1\0\0\0", 8, MSG_DONTWAIT) = 8
May 09 18:15:31 <DocScrutinizer> writev(3, [{"SYNC\4\0\0\0", 8}, {"\0\200\0\0", 4}], 2) = 12
May 09 18:15:46 <DocScrutinizer> recv(3, "\0\0\0\0", 4, MSG_DONTWAIT)    = 4
May 09 18:15:47 <DocScrutinizer> etc
May 09 18:16:06 <DocScrutinizer> I guess that's what you called bulk messages?
May 09 18:17:28 <b-man|laptop> man, that's messy!
May 09 18:17:44 <DocScrutinizer> lol
May 09 18:17:56 <frals> lcuk: liqbubbles was pretty cool!
May 09 18:18:10 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: not entirely
May 09 18:18:12 <lcuk> tis just first little bits to test
May 09 18:18:38 <lcuk> the bubbles should fill with stuff if i can get it fast enough
May 09 18:20:21 <GAN900> timeless, I don' use the calendar.
May 09 18:21:08 <timeless> wise decision
May 09 18:24:32 <timeless> I guess that calculating birthdays is hard work?
May 09 18:24:34 <alterego> Contemplting looking at Android and iPhone SDK's
May 09 18:24:41 <alterego> Know thy enemy and all that.
May 09 18:25:38 <GAN900> alterego's going to own one of each tomorrow.
May 09 18:25:58 <alterego> I don't even properly own an N900 :P
May 09 18:26:07 <alterego> I managed to get work to fork the cash out for me.
May 09 18:27:36 <timeless> nice
May 09 18:27:53 <alterego> I'm thinking of quiting my job, so not really :(
May 09 18:27:58 <jacekowski> alterego: how?
May 09 18:28:02 <jacekowski> why
May 09 18:28:15 <jacekowski> if they would give me n900 i would probably stay
May 09 18:28:35 <alterego> I showed them a demo of a minimal CCTV control client I wrote.
May 09 18:28:46 <alterego> Had it working on Series 60 and the N900
May 09 18:28:56 <alterego> as well as win32 builds and linux build on my ubuntu laptop
May 09 18:29:29 <alterego> I said, buy me this phone, and I can work on it properly :)
May 09 18:30:50 <mece> asdf
May 09 18:31:13 <mece> oops
May 09 18:31:21 <mece> hey. How's it going? What's new?
May 09 18:33:03 <Jaffa> timeless: "work"?
May 09 18:33:23 <Jaffa> timeless: You put a contact's birthday in their VCard and it shows up in the pink "Birthday" calendar with a little cake icon
May 09 18:33:58 <timeless> jaffa: mine's suffering from an off by own error?
May 09 18:34:04 <timeless> see pictures
May 09 18:34:14 <Jaffa> Ah, yes.
May 09 18:34:19 <Jaffa> I'd seen an off by one error
May 09 18:34:29 <Jaffa> But not anything specific
May 09 18:34:45 <Jaffa> Someone blamed Hermes, but it was acting correctly. I wondered if it was TZ-related
May 09 18:34:48 <lcuk> jaffa - 10 day testing.  if the devepoer came up with a specific set of functionality and feature tests that the squad can run over as well as indicating the areas fixed on this run through, getting answers to those tests should in theory allow an app to be tested based on passing proper tests to completion rather than just 10 days time?
May 09 18:35:16 <Jaffa> lcuk: But you know it's always what the developer didn't intend to change which is always the thing which catches you out
May 09 18:35:29 <lcuk> of course - regression testing etc
May 09 18:35:39 <lcuk> thats where the same original tests continue
May 09 18:35:56 <lcuk> when you first release app it goes through everthing, no shortcuts
May 09 18:36:07 <lcuk> but having a list of things to test makes it proactive for the testers
May 09 18:36:12 <lcuk> and the dev knows thosethings
May 09 18:36:47 <lcuk> if you fix a bug, your new test to be added to the hermes tests should be to check functionality around that change
May 09 18:36:49 <timeless> i'm favoring leap years
May 09 18:37:00 <Jaffa> timeless: For the original birth year?
May 09 18:37:13 <lcuk> obviously if you as a developer dont supply test cases, the test squad have no idea what to check for
May 09 18:37:21 <lcuk> and 10days passes by and it gets in anyway untested
May 09 18:37:34 <lcuk> you want your users to check specific paths
May 09 18:38:22 <Jaffa> Given the scarcity of testers, although a bit of a pain the "10 day" rule seems generally sensible. Although, it'd be useful to look at some metrics for how long it takes for something's votes to level off
May 09 18:38:42 <lcuk> the 10 day start is ok for new apps
May 09 18:38:49 <lcuk> i have no qualm there
May 09 18:39:05 <timeless> jaffa: the original year is 83 and is ok
May 09 18:39:09 <timeless> 84 is bad
May 09 18:39:09 <lcuk> but an extra 10days for a 1 line patch
May 09 18:39:23 <lcuk> where you could spend 15minutes writing a test case
May 09 18:39:33 <lcuk> to properly request checking of the element you changed
May 09 18:41:40 <lcuk> jaffa im just trying to think a way round it to ensure patches are both tested properly and to try and find a way to engage both sides
May 09 18:42:47 <Jaffa> lcuk: Indeed; but developer-written test plans are the worst I ever see. For the "this bug is inconvenient, but I'd like to get it fixed" I'm still quite keen on the parallel testing; if the earlier version is past the tipping point and the developer wants it.
May 09 18:43:43 <lcuk> jaffa, then someone with experience in writing test cases should be on the testing squad and liasing with developers
May 09 18:44:12 <lcuk> we all submit patches and facepalm afterwards when the patch is wrong
May 09 18:44:13 <Jaffa> lcuk: interesting idea.
May 09 18:44:32 * Jaffa ponders a community testmaster role.
May 09 18:44:49 <Stskeeps> extramaster?
May 09 18:44:50 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: Jaffa: there's no other way than peer review. Another developer has to scrutinize the patch and estimate the possible side effects. Neither the original devel nor a QA team can do this
May 09 18:45:05 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, of course
May 09 18:45:10 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Something like that.
May 09 18:45:19 <lcuk> but at the moment the testing squad have no way of knowing how to test random app X
May 09 18:45:30 <lcuk> and its a bit of a shambles
May 09 18:45:31 <jacekowski> anybody here is playing starcraft 2?
May 09 18:45:36 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Could fit in with lbt's community repo plan too
May 09 18:45:37 <lcuk> the dev usually has to step in anyway and help
May 09 18:45:41 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: well, i guess there should still be a budget available after june since jeremiah's leaving
May 09 18:45:48 <Stskeeps> (but what do i know)
May 09 18:45:53 <Jaffa> lcuk: "usually"? I've not seen any evidence of that.
May 09 18:45:59 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: That's what I was thinking :)
May 09 18:46:44 <lcuk> jaffa sit in on the testing sessions and see how it goes
May 09 18:47:14 <Jaffa> lcuk: The advantage of the current approach is that it really forces the developer to think about what's best for their users. For example, with fMMS frals seems to have decided that the crashing bug in 1.0.2 *was* serious enough to reset the count.
May 09 18:47:17 <lcuk> in other places im pushing more and more for getting the developers to help guide testcases and tobe proactive in championing hteir patches
May 09 18:47:29 <timeless> ajaffa: have you seen testrunner?
May 09 18:47:45 <Jaffa> timeless: Not in depth, no.
May 09 18:47:49 <lcuk> for half the testing, its failing on the stuff lint could cure
May 09 18:48:02 <lcuk> hrw has mentioned often we could really do with it
May 09 18:48:05 <timeless> it probably makes sense for testers to document what things they test and how
May 09 18:48:20 <lcuk> half of the things tested can be automated and block entry to -tesitng anyway
May 09 18:48:22 <timeless> so future testers of newer versions can test the same things
May 09 18:48:30 <lcuk> timeless, yes
May 09 18:48:37 <lcuk> but that document starts with the dev
May 09 18:48:42 <timeless> to ensure that basic functionality doesn't regress
May 09 18:48:45 <lcuk> he is the one who knows the app better than most
May 09 18:48:47 <Jaffa> lcuk: jeremiah was working on it. Which rules are you thinking of?
May 09 18:49:19 <lcuk> jaffa the silly things, bugtrackers and optification etc
May 09 18:49:23 <timeless> cuk: oddly, i don't think so
May 09 18:49:45 <lcuk> timeless, when there is just one person making an app it has to start somewhere
May 09 18:49:52 <timeless> an app is interesting according to how it's used by real users
May 09 18:49:55 <lcuk> tester has to pickup app and make it work
May 09 18:49:55 <lbt> eh, what
May 09 18:49:56 <Jaffa> lcuk: Bugtracker is flagged by /packages/; optification isn't a hard & fast rule (but we're about to turn the default from 'none' to 'auto')
May 09 18:50:20 <lcuk> timeless, first time to -testing there may be no real users
May 09 18:50:41 * timeless nods
May 09 18:50:51 <korhojoa> <:|
May 09 18:51:06 <timeless> imo an app shouldn't leave testing until a real user defines something useful/usable in an app
May 09 18:51:19 * lbt reads backlog.... but mentions our nokia internal build team is working to release test framework stuff around obs etc etc
May 09 18:51:23 <korhojoa> I could make a fart app
May 09 18:51:32 <lcuk> timeless, nahh apps dont have to be useful
May 09 18:51:36 <lcuk> just stable
May 09 18:51:37 * timeless wouldn't promote that
May 09 18:51:45 <korhojoa> That should be usable, right?
May 09 18:51:56 <lcuk> theres already a fart app in development
May 09 18:51:57 <korhojoa> shake phone, play fart sound.
May 09 18:51:58 <timeless> lcuk: well you warrant what you test
May 09 18:52:01 <lcuk> n00bmonk3y
May 09 18:52:03 <korhojoa> lcuk: o rly
May 09 18:52:04 <DocScrutinizer> a devel always tends to make assumptions about how his app is used. They usually are biased/wrong
May 09 18:52:13 <lcuk> of course
May 09 18:52:15 <timeless> if you can't figure out how to make the app work
May 09 18:52:19 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer++
May 09 18:52:19 <lcuk> but thats a better place to start than nothing
May 09 18:52:20 <DocScrutinizer> so dvel defining the test suite is nonsense
May 09 18:52:25 <timeless> you can't warrant that it does
May 09 18:52:49 <timeless> DocScrutinizer++
May 09 18:52:50 <lcuk> besides, better to keep the tests for the app with the app source somewhere
May 09 18:53:08 <lcuk> like the rest of the documentation
May 09 18:53:09 <timeless> not really
May 09 18:53:28 <timeless> documentation that people can''t find and won't read is usewless
May 09 18:53:49 <lbt> Jaffa: have you done MWN yet?
May 09 18:53:58 <timeless> if it isn't something a user/tester can easily find and amend, it isn't useful
May 09 18:54:17 <lcuk> it should be brought onto the -testing page tho
May 09 18:54:22 <lcuk> like debian changelog
May 09 18:54:24 <Jaffa> lbt: doing it now
May 09 18:54:38 <SpeedEvil> A central place for all docs would be great.
May 09 18:54:49 <lbt> and you have seen the OBS info on planet... I don't know when we last spoke :)
May 09 18:55:07 <timeless> requiring people to use VCSs to access dos isn't ok
May 09 18:55:25 <timeless> nor is requiring them to install them
May 09 18:55:26 <lbt> Jaffa: also, I've put a lot of effort into : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service
May 09 18:55:27 <lcuk> timeless, the people are testing against a specific version of the package
May 09 18:55:35 <lcuk> the webui for voting should have access to everything needed
May 09 18:55:40 <lcuk> nice view of the changelog
May 09 18:55:42 <Jaffa> lbt: it's looking good.
May 09 18:55:47 <lcuk> the testcases historical and new
May 09 18:56:01 <lbt> and, I was *hoping* to have conman built tonight :)
May 09 18:56:14 <lbt> but I need to make optification work on the OBS...
May 09 18:56:25 <lbt> "mount: special device /home/opt does not exist"
May 09 18:56:39 <lcuk> anyway, just opening thoughts i have about testing - obviously more discusison is required
May 09 18:56:43 <lbt> that's building json-lib
May 09 18:56:57 <Jaffa> lbt: cool
May 09 18:56:59 <Stskeeps> lbt: ah yes, base-files
May 09 18:57:11 <lbt> waddaya mean "ah yes" .... :)
May 09 18:57:37 <lbt> Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup
May 09 18:57:41 <Stskeeps> lbt: there's a mount --bind in there or something
May 09 18:57:49 <lbt> just FYI on how I'm doing it so far
May 09 18:58:07 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 09 18:58:51 * Stskeeps is peeved with a xomap build error he can't track down.
May 09 18:58:55 <lbt> all moved to http://gitorious.org/m-obs too
May 09 18:59:11 <lcuk> Stskeeps, when was jeremiah decision made? is there a writeup anywhere?
May 09 18:59:16 <lbt> Stskeeps: point me to the build log so I can take a look
May 09 18:59:19 <lbt> bwahahahaha
May 09 18:59:38 <Stskeeps> lcuk: which decision? i only found out because he told it on mailing list or something
May 09 18:59:42 <lbt> lcuk: he decided pre-xmas iirc
May 09 19:00:15 <lcuk> ahh
May 09 19:01:27 <Jaffa> lcuk: it made an MWKN issue ;-)
May 09 19:01:37 <lcuk> linky?
May 09 19:01:46 * lcuk mustv been washing the pots of something
May 09 19:02:03 <Jaffa> lcuk: http://www.mwkn.net/2010/13/community.html#community-5
May 09 19:03:08 <lcuk> k ta
May 09 19:05:20 * timeless_mbp sighs
May 09 19:05:28 * timeless_mbp read that as 'washington post'
May 09 19:06:47 <lcuk> lol timeless_mbp
May 09 19:09:28 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, ping
May 09 19:12:41 <pupnik> thanks for the fish Jaffa
May 09 19:13:24 <Jaffa> pupnik: So long?
May 09 19:14:36 <pupnik> hehe
May 09 19:14:46 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: you can see where my mind is :(
May 09 19:15:16 <lcuk> i caught a glimpse but tbh timeless_mbp it scared me
May 09 19:17:51 * thresh waves
May 09 19:17:57 <RST38h> moo thresh
May 09 19:18:51 <thresh> i was wondering if anyone set up an tftp server on n900
May 09 19:19:18 <thresh> i need to install debian on my eeepc and i dont have any other devices to run tftp on or usb flash drives to boot from =)
May 09 19:19:40 <Stskeeps> should be possible, but i'd watch out for PSM
May 09 19:19:45 <johnsq> thresh: you can use the n900 as usb drive?
May 09 19:19:50 <Stskeeps> or that
May 09 19:20:35 <BCMM> not sure if you could make it bootable without a fair bit of hacking
May 09 19:20:38 <thresh> johnsq: yes, but I don't have any microSD cards
May 09 19:20:43 <thresh> that, too
May 09 19:21:23 <ManoftheSea> Hey guys.
May 09 19:21:46 <BCMM> does it look like a partition USB MSC device, or a partition-fills-disk one?
May 09 19:22:04 <BCMM> if it were the latter, i imagine any attempt to make it bootable would mess up MyDocs
May 09 19:22:12 <BCMM> ^partitioned
May 09 19:25:12 <ManoftheSea> I'm trying to understand this connectivity architecture, and wondered if anyone could give help.
May 09 19:25:27 <ManoftheSea> I understand how the Wifi interface works (n900, if it matters)
May 09 19:25:32 <Stskeeps> shoot
May 09 19:25:32 <Stskeeps> :P
May 09 19:25:35 <ManoftheSea> But the cell data confuses me.
May 09 19:25:52 <ManoftheSea> It's saying something about using Bluetooth DUN.
May 09 19:26:20 <ManoftheSea> In the N900, then, the data connection is made by external hardware and it just sends/receives by bluetooth?
May 09 19:26:27 <zokier> whats saying so?
May 09 19:26:35 <ManoftheSea> http://62.61.85.167/platform/docs/howtos/howto_connectivity_guide.html#IAP
May 09 19:26:55 <ManoftheSea> does this not apply to the n900?
May 09 19:27:54 <Stskeeps> think you're looking at some quite old documentation
May 09 19:28:12 <DocScrutinizer51> also IP address??
May 09 19:28:15 <ManoftheSea> ok.
May 09 19:28:20 <ManoftheSea> Yeah, I'm not sure either.
May 09 19:28:31 <ManoftheSea> I started at maemo.org
May 09 19:28:34 <ManoftheSea> and started reading.
May 09 19:29:07 <DocScrutinizer51> ManoftheSea: I gatheryou don't own a N900
May 09 19:29:18 <ManoftheSea> It is not mine.
May 09 19:29:23 <ManoftheSea> I do have one.
May 09 19:29:27 <ManoftheSea> Why?
May 09 19:30:03 <DocScrutinizer51> because connecting to GSM is easy as milk on the N900
May 09 19:30:17 <ManoftheSea> oh yes, from the user perspective.
May 09 19:30:28 <ManoftheSea> I'm trying to understand how it treats it on the internal.
May 09 19:30:28 <Stskeeps> ManoftheSea: http://library.maemodocs.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp
May 09 19:30:47 <Stskeeps> under SDK -> API -> C api -> Connectivty
May 09 19:31:03 <ManoftheSea> oh hey, this is more like documentation I'm used to.
May 09 19:31:46 <MohammadAG_> LOL http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650809
May 09 19:32:14 <ManoftheSea> Has anyone thrown around the idea of using the FM transmitter and receiver to network two n900s?
May 09 19:32:31 <ManoftheSea> oh wait...  FM transmitter is analog, right?
May 09 19:32:47 <Kegetys> easier to just use wlan or bluetooth
May 09 19:32:51 <DocScrutinizer51> hooraz Stskeeps this page is fubar on N900
May 09 19:32:52 <ManoftheSea> bleh, I'm not writing a modem.
May 09 19:33:16 <ManoftheSea> Kegetys: easier, yes.  I'm interested in interesting.
May 09 19:33:30 <ManoftheSea> but also, can't send and receive at the same time.
May 09 19:33:36 <pupnik> lets get more fun cell radio info onscreen
May 09 19:33:41 <lcuk> binary to speech to radio to wav to speech recognition to binary
May 09 19:33:48 <ds3> there is a basic modem in the linux kernel tree or at least at one point
May 09 19:33:57 <DocScrutinizer51> FM TX has a range of <5m
May 09 19:33:57 <MohammadAG_> Stskeeps, does Mer keep all drivers from Ubuntu?
May 09 19:34:45 <lcuk> does radio rc have signal strength indicator?
May 09 19:34:46 <pupnik> ManoftheSea: the idea is clever, since i had it too
May 09 19:34:46 <ManoftheSea> DocScrutinizer51: oh, I don't believe it has ANY advantage over wlan or bt
May 09 19:34:49 <lcuk> rx
May 09 19:35:05 <ManoftheSea> except "check this thing out"
May 09 19:35:20 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG_: modules? no
May 09 19:35:31 <MohammadAG_> Stskeeps, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=650801&postcount=811
May 09 19:35:56 <Stskeeps> no, same kernel
May 09 19:36:13 <MohammadAG_> bah
May 09 19:36:51 <lcuk> did bman use the normal kernel for his ubuntu/f12 stuff?
May 09 19:36:57 <lcuk> or did he change it to the stock one
May 09 19:37:09 <lcuk> errr normal maemo vs proper for the distro
May 09 19:37:15 <Stskeeps> probably same kernel
May 09 19:38:52 <b-man|laptop> i used the default maemo kernel. yes
May 09 19:39:37 <ManoftheSea> Is there something that tells what all these daemons do?
May 09 19:39:43 <b-man|laptop> i don't think it really matters which kernel you use with fedora :P
May 09 19:39:51 <ManoftheSea> Like, I sorta know what d-bus is.
May 09 19:39:55 <ManoftheSea> But osso?
May 09 19:41:00 <Robot101> osso is what the maemo department used to be called
May 09 19:41:01 <korhojoa> what is osso. that's what i've been trying to figure out
May 09 19:41:09 <Robot101> open source software operations
May 09 19:41:09 <korhojoa> ah-ha!
May 09 19:41:27 <ManoftheSea> libosso?
May 09 19:41:36 <Robot101> so libosso is osso's library, that's all :P
May 09 19:41:40 <ManoftheSea> anyway, gotta part.  Will be back later.
May 09 19:41:50 * ManoftheSea stays connected.
May 09 19:42:00 <lbt> OK, who's not +1'ed my OBS post on http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/
May 09 19:42:03 <Robot101> you can tell it's old because of the name, and it's full of total insanity
May 09 19:42:23 <Robot101> like connecting twice to d-bus and taking a name on both session and system buses? why? we just don't know
May 09 19:43:18 * GAN900 wonders why docs.google.com is in Chinese.
May 09 19:44:31 <Stskeeps> Robot101: one bet would be mce communications
May 09 19:47:23 <pupnik> travelling on train in finland today, N97 mini kept a connection while N900 lost it 25 times
May 09 19:47:34 <Stskeeps> adjust gprs timeout
May 09 19:47:37 <Stskeeps> it does wonders
May 09 19:48:02 <pupnik> hmm ty Stskeeps - where?
May 09 19:48:20 <Stskeeps> there's a gconf setting for it.. i mentioned it somewhere in the logs
May 09 19:48:22 <Stskeeps> sec
May 09 19:49:19 <pupnik> i am looking also
May 09 19:50:57 <Robot101> Stskeeps: you don't need a name to do communications though
May 09 19:51:14 <Stskeeps> true
May 09 19:51:28 <Stskeeps> pupnik: /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS/gprs_no_coverage_timeout
May 09 19:51:38 <Stskeeps> i upped it to 10 minutes, does wonders in polish metros
May 09 19:52:09 <pupnik> THANKS
May 09 19:52:37 <pupnik> /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS/gprs_no_coverage_timeout
May 09 19:52:41 <pupnik> oops
May 09 19:53:00 <b-man|laptop> hehe
May 09 19:58:48 <b-man|laptop> gah, i wish Nokia provided the source rpm's for meego's n900-specific open source packages - i wouldn't have to mess around with grabbing a bunch source package from the fremantle repo and create .spec files from scratch for all of those packages
May 09 19:58:58 <b-man|laptop> but i guess it's good practice :)
May 09 19:59:08 <BCMM_> is there a manual/help page for Evince for maemo?
May 09 19:59:17 <Stskeeps> b-man|laptop: hmm?
May 09 19:59:25 <Stskeeps> b-man|laptop: they should be open source
May 09 19:59:25 <BCMM_> especially keybindings
May 09 19:59:26 <Stskeeps> hang on
May 09 20:00:07 <Stskeeps> b-man|laptop: you're right, they're not there
May 09 20:00:09 <Stskeeps> that's a mistake
May 09 20:00:31 <b-man|laptop> Stskeeps: it's a good thing i pointed that out then :)
May 09 20:00:52 <b-man|laptop> i thought that was quite strange xD
May 09 20:06:04 <DocScrutinizer51> burrrrp
May 09 20:06:17 <Stskeeps> b-man|laptop: could you file a bug for it?
May 09 20:06:19 <Stskeeps> on meego.com
May 09 20:08:24 <b-man|laptop> Stskeeps: sure :)
May 09 20:13:43 <ManoftheSea> ok, back with more questions.
May 09 20:14:14 <ManoftheSea> Like: Does the cell device/driver/hardware let me see how loud my phone is?
May 09 20:14:15 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: what does that do?
May 09 20:14:29 <ManoftheSea> the quality of my connection?  Cell specific details?
May 09 20:14:33 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: (osso-con)
May 09 20:14:49 <SpeedEvil> ManoftheSea: some of it
May 09 20:15:14 <SpeedEvil> ManoftheSea: dbus --system
May 09 20:15:17 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: it increases how sensitive the stack is to timeouts, ie, i can set so my gprs connection doesn't time out if it is out of coverage for 10 minutes
May 09 20:15:27 <Stskeeps> the current one is like 1-2 minutes i think
May 09 20:15:32 <SpeedEvil> ManoftheSea: dbus-monitor --system
May 09 20:15:42 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: So the IP doesn't change for you?
May 09 20:15:54 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: right
May 09 20:16:01 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: Nice.
May 09 20:16:13 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: I wish there was more fine grained policy.
May 09 20:16:24 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: it isn't foolproof but it helps things a lot
May 09 20:16:34 <Stskeeps> ie, i can roll into a station and it picks up where my ssh left off
May 09 20:16:52 <Stskeeps> which was impossible before :)
May 09 20:17:28 <lbt> Stskeeps: is base-files open? on gitorious
May 09 20:17:36 <Stskeeps> lbt: should be
May 09 20:17:41 <Stskeeps> not sure if it's on gitorious
May 09 20:17:47 <Stskeeps> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650855#post650855 , link doesnt work btw
May 09 20:17:49 <lbt> OK, I'll keep looking
May 09 20:18:02 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: For example, my DSL dies often at around midnight. Ideally I'd like to say 'never roam onto wlan if it's between 10PM and 2AM, and the user has gone to another connection'.
May 09 20:18:14 <lbt> damn, works here..
May 09 20:18:20 <pupnik> nice applet idea SpeedEvil
May 09 20:18:43 <ManoftheSea> cell_info_change?
May 09 20:18:51 <Stskeeps> lbt: as in, the link inside your post
May 09 20:18:51 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: Though 'never roam onto if user has specified another info connection'
May 09 20:18:53 <adalal> hey, any reason why titan's kernel would have teh 125 mhz disabled?
May 09 20:19:03 <lbt> yes... it doesn't work for you?
May 09 20:19:06 <ManoftheSea> Is there an explanation of this struct?
May 09 20:19:12 <SpeedEvil> adalal: Many people have found 125m unstable
May 09 20:19:14 <Stskeeps> Stskeeps, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
May 09 20:19:46 <lbt> I see... I posted it via email integration... not surprising no-one uses it then
May 09 20:20:00 <Stskeeps> (and no, i didn't go out and call the admins of tmo idiots..)
May 09 20:20:01 <Stskeeps> :P
May 09 20:22:30 <BCMM_> any idea how to escape from fullscreen in Evince?
May 09 20:25:07 <lbt> that should fix it Stskeeps
May 09 20:26:14 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 09 20:26:16 <DocScrutinizer51> wow, seamless 2_->3G handover
May 09 20:27:32 <pupnik> BCMM_: ctrl-backspace?
May 09 20:28:15 * lbt reboots N900 to see if he can use wifi
May 09 20:30:15 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: tweakr should learn to handle much broader 'profiles'
May 09 20:30:44 <SpeedEvil> ideally, yes.
May 09 20:30:47 <ManoftheSea> like different ringtones?
May 09 20:30:55 <DocScrutinizer51> kinda like policyfmanager
May 09 20:31:08 <opdf2> I wanted to edit a python script in hildon-desktop. Is it safe to just upload the edited script wireless sftp while n900 is running?
May 09 20:31:11 <DocScrutinizer51> s/f/-/
May 09 20:31:12 <infobot> DocScrutinizer51 meant: kinda like policy-manager
May 09 20:31:12 <SpeedEvil> But getting to there is hard, given all of the closed stuff.
May 09 20:31:50 <DocScrutinizer51> opdf2: what should happen?
May 09 20:32:28 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: acdk, plus all the missing docs for the closed stuff
May 09 20:32:37 <SpeedEvil> That too.
May 09 20:32:44 <SpeedEvil> It's damn frustrating.
May 09 20:33:22 * DocScrutinizer51 seems to remember something called dwimd
May 09 20:33:34 <SpeedEvil> In some ways this feels like openmoko-sw again. Though this time it's the closed bits, not the kernel that's broken.
May 09 20:33:41 <lbt> sounds perl-ish DocScrutinizer51
May 09 20:34:22 <DocScrutinizer51> dwimd? nah a python app
May 09 20:34:24 <SpeedEvil> (and of course - the change in toolkits)
May 09 20:34:57 <DocScrutinizer51> yep :-S
May 09 20:35:00 <SpeedEvil> import mindreading
May 09 20:35:23 <DocScrutinizer51> but this time nobody will ever blame me or my company :-P
May 09 20:37:07 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: you got no idea how bored to death I feel on all the 'ohnoes they move to qt - they avandoned us' whining
May 09 20:37:41 <DocScrutinizer51> so much for switch of default toolkit
May 09 20:37:59 <SpeedEvil> yes - this time it was fairly well signposted - reasonable amount of notice.
May 09 20:39:18 <DocScrutinizer51> SpeedEvil: you scutinized the diff egoshin posted?
May 09 20:41:51 <DocScrutinizer51> I wonder what that locked-regs story is all about
May 09 20:42:39 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: no
May 09 20:43:00 <ManoftheSea> on that topic...  I'm looking at a helloworld that's talking about gtk
May 09 20:43:08 <ManoftheSea> QT would be a replacement for that?
May 09 20:43:13 <SpeedEvil> yes
May 09 20:43:25 <ManoftheSea> but they both do about the same thing?
May 09 20:43:30 <SpeedEvil> Though gtk apps will also work as I understand it.
May 09 20:43:33 <SpeedEvil> Basically, yes.
May 09 20:43:35 <ManoftheSea> And they can both create apps that work on n900?
May 09 20:43:38 <ManoftheSea> thank you
May 09 20:43:50 <SpeedEvil> However - GTK apps wil have a much larger RAM footprint after the change
May 09 20:44:40 <ManoftheSea> I think I understand that.
May 09 20:44:43 <DocScrutinizer51> and probably more fun
May 09 20:45:09 <ManoftheSea> we're moving from gnome to KDE?
May 09 20:45:28 <ManoftheSea> Ready for noob questions?
May 09 20:45:52 <ManoftheSea> If maemo 5 is based off debian, can I apt-get debian command line tools?
May 09 20:46:50 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if there are chances for a gtk->Qt compatibility layer lib. So 'porting' gtk apps would become a snap
May 09 20:47:10 * SpeedEvil wondered that a couple of days ago
May 09 20:48:12 <DocScrutinizer51> ManoftheSea: depends. sometimes might work
May 09 20:48:22 <Jaffa> DocScrutinizer51: What'd be the point? Just install Gtk ;-)
May 09 20:48:46 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: The point is that libraries cost memory.
May 09 20:48:47 <DocScrutinizer51> Jaffa: systray
May 09 20:48:52 <DocScrutinizer51> etc
May 09 20:50:11 <ManoftheSea> when is the switch to qt?
May 09 20:52:25 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: For example - a quick look seems like a GTK program has a footprint of ~6M - with all the gtk libs.
May 09 20:52:29 <Robot101> ManoftheSea: it's not KDE, it's Qt... there's a difference
May 09 20:53:02 <ManoftheSea> Robot101: I don't know the difference.
May 09 20:53:04 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: (the second GTK program of course halves this, ...)
May 09 20:53:15 <ManoftheSea> I thought gtk->qt was similar to gnome->KDE
May 09 20:53:34 <Robot101> ManoftheSea: yeah, but maemo was never gnome, it was just another user of gtk
May 09 20:53:44 <SpeedEvil> ManoftheSea: It's more like termcap -> ncurses
May 09 20:54:00 <Robot101> ManoftheSea: it has some parts of gnome in it, and even some are staying with moving to qt, but nothing much from kde is being used
May 09 20:55:21 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: I think it's reasonable to expect, though, that many users of Harmattan devices will have both in memory most of the time and beyond that timescale the number of Gtk apps will (hopefully) be dwarfed by Qt ones.
May 09 20:55:24 <ManoftheSea> ok, sorry.
May 09 20:55:33 <Jaffa> Anyway, bedtime.
May 09 20:55:37 <Jaffa> It's an interesting idea, of course.
May 09 20:56:19 <ManoftheSea> but the qt libraries are or aren't in fremantle?
May 09 20:57:26 <DocScrutinizer51> yes they are (aiui)
May 09 20:57:29 <opdf2> i wanna do wireless sync for my n900 through sftp. Is it recommended to login with "user" instead of "root" for MyDocs access?
May 09 20:59:21 <timeless_mbp> Robot101: well, is KOffice part of KDE?
May 09 20:59:28 <timeless_mbp> because some portion of KOffice is coming :)
May 09 20:59:43 <timeless_mbp> opdf2: use an ssh key
May 09 20:59:46 <timeless_mbp> and don't use root
May 09 20:59:52 <Robot101> oh, yes that's true - had forgotten about that. that's cool :)
May 09 20:59:59 <DocScrutinizer51> probably such a compatibility lib should have some nagging built in (or get a 30day quarantine penalty) so devels move to qt eventually
May 09 21:00:21 <timeless_mbp> mapping gtk onto qt is a waste
May 09 21:00:35 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: but - for example - I'm not holding my breath for a qt-gnuplot - say
May 09 21:00:43 <luke-jr> Robot101: Maemo has always had parts of KDE!
May 09 21:00:55 <luke-jr> even Maemo 4 had Telepathy
May 09 21:01:21 <Robot101> nothing in KDE actually uses Telepathy yet - we're working on it...
May 09 21:01:22 * DocScrutinizer51 prays gconf will die on moving to qt
May 09 21:01:31 <luke-jr> Robot101: but Telepathy itself is a KDE project
May 09 21:01:45 <Robot101> luke-jr: heh
May 09 21:02:22 <Robot101> luke-jr: you do realise I started the Telepathy project, right?
May 09 21:02:36 <Shapeshifter> _o_
May 09 21:02:42 <luke-jr> Robot101: nope :P
May 09 21:02:59 <Robot101> luke-jr: yeah, so, er, it's not a KDE project. sorry about that. :)
May 09 21:03:06 <luke-jr> ...
May 09 21:03:14 <DocScrutinizer51> probably such a compatibility lib should have some nagging built in (or get a 30day quarantine penalty) so devels move to qt eventually
May 09 21:03:17 <luke-jr> was always hosted on KDE sites as far as I rememer
May 09 21:03:17 * DocScrutinizer51 prays gconf will die on moving to qt
May 09 21:03:35 <Robot101> luke-jr: it's always been hosted on freedesktop.org as far as I remember
May 09 21:03:45 <luke-jr> hmm, maybe I'm thinking about something else :/
May 09 21:05:06 <Robot101> Decibel? that was a KDE project based on Telepathy but it never got any apps in KDE to use it either, and its kinda dead now.
May 09 21:05:14 <ManoftheSea> what's Telepathy?
May 09 21:05:36 <Robot101> ManoftheSea: real-time communication framework, it's what the N900 uses to make cellular calls, SMS, skype, google talk, etc
May 09 21:06:00 <ManoftheSea> RTCOMM?
May 09 21:06:08 <DocScrutinizer51> mindreading ;-P
May 09 21:06:14 <ManoftheSea> thanks, doc
May 09 21:06:22 <ManoftheSea> That's what makes it difficult to google
May 09 21:06:39 <Robot101> hardly, it's the 2nd hit...!
May 09 21:06:53 * ManoftheSea fails, then.
May 09 21:07:17 <luke-jr> Robot101: yeah, that might be it
May 09 21:07:24 <ManoftheSea> I admit, I asked before trying.
May 09 21:07:28 <ManoftheSea> Sorry, sorry everyone.
May 09 21:07:33 <Robot101> luke-jr: yeah, maemo never used that
May 09 21:08:03 <luke-jr> Robot101: gotta admit I never saw *much* purpose to Decibal/Telepathy :)
May 09 21:08:04 <Robot101> ManoftheSea: but yeah, Maemo RTCOMM is based on Telepathy
May 09 21:08:05 <genewitch1> how do I add a feed to osso-rss-feed-reader that doesn't end in .rss?
May 09 21:08:15 <luke-jr> Robot101: I am of the XMPP-only-or-die mindset :)
May 09 21:08:31 <Robot101> yeah, XMPP gateways being so helpful for placing cellular calls...? :P
May 09 21:08:39 <Robot101> we wrote an XMPP gateway that uses telepathy actually
May 09 21:08:43 <Robot101> but it's at a very early stage
May 09 21:08:49 <luke-jr> Robot101: I would *never* use a cellular by itself
May 09 21:09:05 <Robot101> even with XMPP, it doesn't solve the problem of sharing a connection between multiple programs
May 09 21:09:15 <luke-jr> I would setup a call with my PBX directly (probably over SSH) and get my phone to understand what the call was
May 09 21:09:28 <Robot101> yeah you're not a normal user
May 09 21:09:30 <luke-jr> :)
May 09 21:09:39 <luke-jr> normal users just get WinMo
May 09 21:09:58 <Robot101> telepathy is for doing almost exactly what the N900 does, sharing your IM server connections between contacts, presence, call and conversation UIs
May 09 21:10:35 <luke-jr> XMPP doesn't need that, since you can have unlimited connections
May 09 21:11:15 <Robot101> yeah, on a mobile device, that's not actually a good idea
May 09 21:11:27 <Robot101> even with just XMPP then Telepathy acts as a local demuxer
May 09 21:11:46 <Robot101> and, I think XMPP priorities stink for choosing where your messages go, really
May 09 21:11:52 <Robot101> so connecting multiple times just makes life worse
May 09 21:12:20 <Robot101> and yeah, I do like XMPP a lot, it's the best supported protocol in Telepathy, and we've worked a lot on Jingle calling and added video support and all sorts
May 09 21:12:30 <Robot101> but it's not perfect, and it's not the solution to all problems
May 09 21:12:30 <luke-jr> :)
May 09 21:13:03 <Robot101> the xmpp roster is the most insane and broken part of the protocol, it's the most scary part of all telepathy code, just 100s of lines of insanity :(
May 09 21:13:07 <DocScrutinizer> anyway telepathy dbus interface sucks like almost each and every dbus interface does
May 09 21:13:14 <Robot101> and then google came and broke it even more
May 09 21:13:38 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: actually we're pretty good at writing dbus interfaces now, you can route an incoming call to the UI with two d-bus messages now
May 09 21:13:50 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: we just need to delete the rest of the API which is inefficient...
May 09 21:14:07 <Shapeshifter> I wonder what was wrong with dcop
May 09 21:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> and write some decent manpage? :-P
May 09 21:14:31 <Robot101> yeah, that would help - the client libraries are getting more docs, and we have a telepathy book now
May 09 21:14:34 <Robot101> so we're working on it
May 09 21:14:35 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: aiui dcop and dbus are almost identical
May 09 21:14:49 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: but dcop seemed so much easier to understand and work with
May 09 21:14:50 <Robot101> dcop was just not possible for GNOME because it relies on qt object serialisation
May 09 21:15:12 <Shapeshifter> meh gnome
May 09 21:15:15 <Shapeshifter> ditch that.
May 09 21:15:21 <DocScrutinizer> fsck g*
May 09 21:15:33 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke gconf
May 09 21:15:35 <Robot101> the whole point of d-bus was to link gnome and kde shit together :P
May 09 21:15:39 <DocScrutinizer> ~die
May 09 21:15:39 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.
May 09 21:15:47 <Robot101> and gconf is bad, gnome know that - they just replaced it too
May 09 21:15:49 <DocScrutinizer> ~useless
May 09 21:15:50 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(
May 09 21:16:40 <Shapeshifter> but why does dbus-send have such a silly syntax where you repeat the same thing 3 times?
May 09 21:16:48 <Robot101> oh, that just sucks
May 09 21:16:52 <DocScrutinizer> and friggin skype used dbus-1 while nobody else had support for the obsolete crap
May 09 21:16:52 <Shapeshifter> and where searching is a pita
May 09 21:16:54 <Robot101> the qdbus tool is much better
May 09 21:17:01 <Shapeshifter> ah
May 09 21:17:20 <Robot101> don't get me wrong, I don't love d-bus at all, but it did enable a lot of good stuff
May 09 21:17:32 <DocScrutinizer> Shapeshifter: mdbus2 -i ftw
May 09 21:17:34 <Robot101> it's just a shame that it got 90% written and then everyone just gave up on making it good
May 09 21:17:38 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: thanks
May 09 21:17:42 <MohammadAG_> dbus ftl :P
May 09 21:17:58 <Robot101> I might organise a d-bus hackfest this autumn
May 09 21:18:06 <Robot101> with the linux foundation stuff in boston
May 09 21:18:10 <Robot101> plumbers / linuxcon
May 09 21:18:24 <ManoftheSea> hmm, I recognize that I don't have a clue...
May 09 21:18:53 <lbt> Robot101: a dbus docfest would be a good start
May 09 21:19:00 * DocScrutinizer suggests burning d-bus in a fire 20m high there on that hackfest
May 09 21:19:25 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: that'd be great, then we can go and rewrite all of the software that's been written using it!
May 09 21:19:38 <lbt> making python dbus talk to C dbus talk to perl dbus talk to c++/libsigc dbus talk to Qt dbus...
May 09 21:19:46 <MohammadAG_> sigh http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52268
May 09 21:19:49 <DocScrutinizer> fucking dbus still seems to have that annoying bug whith async or whatever, occasionally dropping msgs
May 09 21:19:53 <Robot101> the best way to achieve success is to keep rewriting everything from scratch - this open source lark has it all wrong. code re-use just means you use other people's less good code...
May 09 21:19:55 <lbt> some 'best practice' docs
May 09 21:20:02 <MohammadAG_> Robot101, aww you'd do that? Thanks guys
May 09 21:20:09 * lbt likes dbus...
May 09 21:20:26 <Robot101> I don't mind it, it could be faster, and libdbus is a bit of a shame
May 09 21:20:36 * MohammadAG_ hates it, deeply, about as much as the iPhone
May 09 21:20:38 <Robot101> and qdbus is, er, kinda unmaintained which is awkward
May 09 21:20:49 <lbt> Robot101: but that's just implementation :)
May 09 21:20:50 <MohammadAG_> (otoh if I could understand it, I might start to like it)
May 09 21:21:48 <Robot101> lbt: yeah, conceptually it's a lot better than the practice
May 09 21:22:15 <Robot101> lbt: thankfully it's not too hard to implement - glib now has its own implementation... gvariant is the dbus data structures and gdbus marshals/unmarshals messages using it
May 09 21:22:45 <Robot101> MohammadAG_: http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2010/05/07/eat-burgers-on-the-short-bus/ might help you understand it :)
May 09 21:22:48 <lbt> *nod*
May 09 21:22:54 <DocScrutinizer> if dbus came with a policy that NO APPLICATION EVER gets away without introspection or without a decent manpage incl a dbus-send example of every method...
May 09 21:23:16 <lbt> http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-python/doc/tutorial.html
May 09 21:23:21 <lbt> hmm 2006...
May 09 21:23:30 * DocScrutinizer burrrps
May 09 21:23:39 <Robot101> oh the introspection is upsetting
May 09 21:24:30 <SpeedEvil> No. The lack of docs - which introspection is a shitty implementation of - is upsetting
May 09 21:24:43 * lbt wonders if Robot101 is talking about  python or  Robot101's life...
May 09 21:24:45 <DocScrutinizer> ACK!!!
May 09 21:25:08 <Robot101> lbt: haha, no the whole XML introspection thing in d-bus, is very upsetting
May 09 21:25:12 <DocScrutinizer> python??
May 09 21:25:14 <Robot101> dbus-glib is upsetting too
May 09 21:25:27 <Shapeshifter> so. everything about dbus is upsetting.
May 09 21:25:44 <Robot101> the implementations... the wire protocol is tolerable, and the concept is excellent
May 09 21:25:49 <lbt> Shapeshifter: apart from the basic design + principles
May 09 21:25:55 <Robot101> given it enables such wonderous things as telepathy
May 09 21:26:08 * DocScrutinizer mumbles CORBA
May 09 21:26:13 <Shapeshifter> well. the gstreamer basic design and principles are also win. still, gstreamer is pure horror.
May 09 21:26:22 <Robot101> and hal^Wudev
May 09 21:26:25 <ManoftheSea> source and sink?
May 09 21:26:34 <lbt> DocScrutinizer: nah, we should all switch to Qpid  http://qpid.apache.org/
May 09 21:27:38 <DocScrutinizer> actually gstreamer is something I could love eventually
May 09 21:28:17 <DocScrutinizer> even though it starts with a 'g'
May 09 21:28:19 <Shapeshifter> DocScrutinizer: have you written something using it?
May 09 21:28:39 <Shapeshifter> I nearly lost my mind. And #gstreamer is the most unfriendly and unhelpful place I've ever visited.
May 09 21:28:40 <DocScrutinizer> gstreamer for me looks like a cmdline toolset
May 09 21:28:49 <luke-jr> lol
May 09 21:29:17 <Shapeshifter> stuff just doesn't work, the docs are horrible, and debugging is a pain.
May 09 21:29:52 <DocScrutinizer> if it's yet another alternative to PA, then nuke it together with the other useless crap pretending to enable audio/media processing
May 09 21:30:08 <ManoftheSea> PA?
May 09 21:30:15 <DocScrutinizer> ~pa
May 09 21:30:16 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, pa is PAY ATTENTION!!!!!
May 09 21:30:25 <DocScrutinizer> ~shutup
May 09 21:30:26 <infobot> yes master, I'll STFU
May 09 21:30:30 <Shapeshifter> pulseaudio
May 09 21:30:37 <DocScrutinizer> Pulse Audio
May 09 21:30:58 <Shapeshifter> I admit I haven't tried libav as an alternative because I was already to deep into the project using gstreamer, but from the glimpse I got it seemed much nicer.
May 09 21:31:12 <Robot101> oh its one of those /pre-existing/ pieces of software?
May 09 21:31:17 <Robot101> it must suck then, best to start over
May 09 21:31:21 <budfive> pulseaudio is great!
May 09 21:31:22 <budfive> :)
May 09 21:31:28 <Shapeshifter> pulseaudio is stupid
May 09 21:31:39 <DocScrutinizer> /kick budfive
May 09 21:31:48 <Robot101> everyone who wrote all of the software in existence was an idiot, and did such a bad job of solving such simple problems
May 09 21:31:50 <lbt> oss rulez
May 09 21:31:58 * Shapeshifter shouts "OSS forever"
May 09 21:32:04 <Robot101> all the code out there is just cruft, we should start over
May 09 21:32:05 <budfive> i have a server with the speakers connected to it, running pulse. various laptops redirect their output to the server
May 09 21:32:11 <lbt> Shapeshifter: latency
May 09 21:32:16 * Robot101 joins DocScrutinizer's new replacement for everything project
May 09 21:32:26 <budfive> to the laptop the pulse server looks like any alsa device
May 09 21:32:27 <lbt> Robot101: MeeGo then?
May 09 21:32:27 <budfive> works great
May 09 21:32:32 <Robot101> lbt: zing!
May 09 21:32:33 <ManoftheSea> um...  this looks like a religious argument
May 09 21:32:59 <lbt> nah, ManoftheSea, we just don't have whisky
May 09 21:33:36 <timeless_mbp> frals: hey, can you change fMMS's Configuration dialog to use Maemo5 instead of Maemo4 input fields?
May 09 21:33:51 <timeless_mbp> and move the 'Advanced' button to above 'Save'
May 09 21:34:25 <DocScrutinizer> Robot101: I DO NOT WANT REPLACEMENTS! take all your replacements and eat it! There's been decent IPC before dbus, and my desktop audio has lags of >60sec(!!!), guess since when... right, since last update introduced PA
May 09 21:34:33 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
May 09 21:35:03 <Robot101> there is no precursor to pulseaudio that solves the same problem space
May 09 21:35:37 <budfive> DocScrutinizer: if you're not sending audio over the network you really shouldn't be using pulse. that's a heavy extra layer of crap for not much benefit then
May 09 21:35:46 <DocScrutinizer> ohnoes. Yeah I can't live without err, what? Ahyes without audio-over-network and hotswitching audiocards
May 09 21:36:08 <DocScrutinizer> Did I miss any advantages of PA over ALSA?
May 09 21:36:13 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: N900 hot switches between loudspeaker, earpiece, headset and bluetooth
May 09 21:36:25 <Robot101> there's a reason both palm and nokia chose pulseaudio for their devices...
May 09 21:36:40 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 09 21:36:43 <DocScrutinizer> Robot101: for N900 I not yet made up my mind
May 09 21:36:53 <ManoftheSea> and fm
May 09 21:37:01 <Robot101> even desktops hot-switch with bluetooth and USB devices too
May 09 21:37:04 <Robot101> anyway, 'night
May 09 21:37:13 * lbt would like pa for home AV systems
May 09 21:37:19 <lbt> night Robot101 :)
May 09 21:37:28 <DocScrutinizer> but I guess you don't need hotswitching. A splitting of the stream to 3 sinks, each with a softvol, that might do the trick as well
May 09 21:37:34 <lbt> interesting stuff BTW ...
May 09 21:38:39 <DocScrutinizer> Robot101: (for the reason part) maybe the reason was: ALL distros got PA now, just because somebody was realy loud about it?
May 09 21:38:59 <wall[e]> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30142075@N00/4591915763/
May 09 21:39:03 <wall[e]> done last night!
May 09 21:39:11 <wall[e]> no clothes, just body
May 09 21:40:33 * DocScrutinizer gives a steaming shit on a desktop PC hotswitching to BT - with a 60sec lag
May 09 21:40:34 <MohammadAG_> ImportError: No module named wnck <-- any ideas
May 09 21:40:54 <ShadowJK> pa is crap, but the alternatives are worse
May 09 21:41:00 <DocScrutinizer> no
May 09 21:41:14 <DocScrutinizer> the alternatives have even steeper learning curve
May 09 21:41:26 <ShadowJK> well that too
May 09 21:41:26 <DocScrutinizer> and are even worse documented
May 09 21:41:44 <DocScrutinizer> but there's abolutely nothing wrong with ALSA the software
May 09 21:41:54 <DocScrutinizer> it just works
May 09 21:41:57 <wall[e]> any tool i can use to adjust hsv and level?
May 09 21:41:59 <liori> DocScrutinizer: ALSA being linux-only?
May 09 21:42:15 <DocScrutinizer> dunno, who cares?
May 09 21:42:23 <ShadowJK> Well, dmix never ever worked as good as pulseaudio does for me
May 09 21:42:35 <lbt> wall[e]: gimp?
May 09 21:42:41 <ShadowJK> often every alsa-using app would just hang/halt due to dmix :)
May 09 21:42:42 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: then you had a crappy setup
May 09 21:42:54 <wall[e]> lbt, anything on n900, sorry.
May 09 21:43:12 <wall[e]> gimp is ported?
May 09 21:43:22 <lbt> doubt it
May 09 21:43:29 <wall[e]> ok
May 09 21:43:38 <DocScrutinizer> imagemagic?
May 09 21:43:45 <Shapeshifter> what good would it be. you can run it in easy debian but of course it's slow and stuff
May 09 21:43:46 <ShadowJK> mind, alsa's pulse plugin seems to have many of the bugs alsa's dmix plugin has.. enormous latency coupled with nonexistant/wrong/crap buffer fill and delay reporting..
May 09 21:43:51 <wall[e]> DocScrutinizer, I think they ported graphic magick
May 09 21:43:55 <wall[e]> I can't find the deb
May 09 21:44:03 <luke-jr> ImageMagick*
May 09 21:44:11 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that's not correct
May 09 21:44:14 <Robot101> alsa doesn't do the same as pulseaudio. what learning curve does pulseaudio have when you have a UI like http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2o81e3u4ZFU/S5pho0-AH4I/AAAAAAAAAVY/jOQTw5yzIIc/s1600-h/Screenshot-2.png ?
May 09 21:44:19 <wall[e]> it was for old system
May 09 21:44:27 <wall[e]> those devices before n900
May 09 21:44:31 <DocScrutinizer> to all my knowlede these are issues *introduced* by PA
May 09 21:44:37 <wall[e]> graphicmagicks was a clone
May 09 21:44:38 <DocScrutinizer> not heratage of dmix
May 09 21:44:47 <wall[e]> er fork
May 09 21:44:51 <ShadowJK> I'm not saying it's a heritage
May 09 21:45:00 <ShadowJK> but the same issues are there
May 09 21:45:07 <wall[e]> i installed sdk just to port it to n900 before someone ruin my box
May 09 21:45:50 <wall[e]> anyone with good mood can port graphicmagick for me then it would be nice
May 09 21:45:54 <Robot101> ie pick a sound card, set the speakers, receive audio.
May 09 21:46:24 <DocScrutinizer> Robot101: I *hate* ALSA as it has NO docs that gained the name "doc" - but honestly it has all I ever needed, and it just works
May 09 21:46:27 <wall[e]> it's very important for n900 artists, i think.
May 09 21:46:37 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: so, you're not the target user either
May 09 21:46:41 <DocScrutinizer> PA otoh never(!) worked for me
May 09 21:46:44 <BCMM> what is the connection between graphicmagick and imagemagick?
May 09 21:46:44 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: as you a) know what alsa is, b) looked for docs
May 09 21:47:01 <DocScrutinizer> Robot101: ack, granted
May 09 21:47:02 <Robot101> DocScrutinizer: there are literally millions of people who use ubuntu or fedora or RHEL or whatever, and pulseaudio works fine for them
May 09 21:47:13 <ShadowJK> If you output direct to audio device with alsa, it works beautifully.. but that's a bit inadeuate on modern desktop :)
May 09 21:47:32 <Robot101> remember to pick your rants well, or you might come across as uninformed. :P
May 09 21:47:53 * ShadowJK is still suffering from pulseaudio pausing bug despite using a version where it's supposedly fixed
May 09 21:47:57 <Robot101> d-bus replacing corba, now that's something we could have a good discussion about
May 09 21:48:08 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: you can create whatever audio plugin stack you need, while opening a ALSA device
May 09 21:48:09 <Robot101> like, was it just a political decision to keep kde folks happy...
May 09 21:48:12 <Robot101> but, another day
May 09 21:48:17 * Robot101 really sleeps now
May 09 21:48:23 <ShadowJK> and I get periodic buffer underrun in the form of crackling, no atter what priority I run pulseaudio
May 09 21:48:24 <DocScrutinizer> no need to output 'directlly'
May 09 21:49:10 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, for me the only thing that actually works without issues is alsa direct, or pulseaudio -> alsa
May 09 21:49:55 <ShadowJK> alsa -> alsa plugins -> ??? -> audio device, too buggy to be usable
May 09 21:50:00 <zash> Robot101: where is that surround ui hidden?
May 09 21:50:21 <wall[e]> ok, i guess i'll install sdk again on my home box
May 09 21:50:26 <wall[e]> :S
May 09 21:50:39 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: never had any issues, except of understanding how to use it correctly
May 09 21:50:55 <DocScrutinizer> once set up correctly it worked like a charm every time
May 09 21:51:11 <DocScrutinizer> (well, since alsa0.98 maybe)
May 09 21:51:36 <ShadowJK> I want to know how to set it up so that it doesn't add 2 second granularity to delay measurements
May 09 21:53:05 <DocScrutinizer> err, if you need delay *measurements* then probably PA is the right thing for you. ALSA is just happy with delivering a guaranteed max delay you can config as you like within the limits of your hardware
May 09 21:53:22 <ShadowJK> like, when using alsa output plugin/device/whatever 'default', like repeatedly requesting amount of audio in output buffer says "2000ms" for about 3 seconds and then it says 0 and xrun
May 09 21:54:44 <DocScrutinizer> default is a very fuzzy thing in ALSA. Depends on your distro, your particular hardware, dunno what
May 09 21:55:32 <DocScrutinizer> and I admit most distros come with a ALSA config that's suboptimal at best
May 09 21:55:49 <ShadowJK> but alsa direct to device gives the expected results, where if you request the delay every 10ms, you get answers that are smaller each and every time, and answers that decrement at almost 10ms per request
May 09 21:56:20 <ShadowJK> (almost, because system and audio clocks aren't synchronized)
May 09 21:56:33 <DocScrutinizer> and how should they
May 09 21:56:50 <DocScrutinizer> if they were you'd not even need a ringbuffer
May 09 21:57:07 <ShadowJK> I did not say they should be.
May 09 21:57:09 <DocScrutinizer> not to mention interrupts and thresholds
May 09 21:58:08 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: odds are alsa default is a PA plugin since years now
May 09 21:58:42 <DocScrutinizer> aplay -v /dev/urandom is your friend
May 09 21:58:59 <DocScrutinizer> as are aplay -l and aplay -L
May 09 21:59:11 <ShadowJK> Atleast using pulseaudio directly doesn't kill audio delay granularity and usefulness :)
May 09 22:00:17 <DocScrutinizer> well I curse PA 50 times every day, as it killed my desktop audio, after 8 years of flawless operation under ALSA
May 09 22:03:10 <DocScrutinizer> each time I close a window, or hit left cursor in xterm once to often
May 09 22:03:23 <DocScrutinizer> and the audio for that comes 2 minutes later
May 09 22:03:34 <DocScrutinizer> or 5sec later
May 09 22:03:44 <DocScrutinizer> or 2 days later (no kidding)
May 09 22:03:44 <ShadowJK> hah, sounds like alsa using apps on my desktop :P
May 09 22:04:22 <ShadowJK> when dmix decided to hang everything and then later when I kill the right app, the others get unwedged :P
May 09 22:04:46 <DocScrutinizer> alsa default is guaranteed to be a plugin based on PA nowadays
May 09 22:05:38 <lcuk> does pyqt work on the 8x0?
May 09 22:06:09 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: then you probably missed to config the device in a way to create unique dmix handles by adding the process number to the handle base integer
May 09 22:06:37 <DocScrutinizer> or you actually used PA and didn't recognize it
May 09 22:07:19 <ShadowJK> no this was before PA
May 09 22:07:32 <wall[e]> is it bad to turn off touch screen vibration?
May 09 22:07:46 <ShadowJK> why would it be bad..
May 09 22:07:47 <DocScrutinizer> you are sure about the date PA crept in to your system?
May 09 22:07:53 <wall[e]> will make the panel got scratch easier?
May 09 22:08:03 <wall[e]> like you won't know if you press too hard
May 09 22:08:07 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: suuuure -nah why should it?
May 09 22:08:20 <wall[e]> ok
May 09 22:08:32 <wall[e]> can't paint properly with that turn on
May 09 22:08:48 <DocScrutinizer> that's what the switch is for ;-)
May 09 22:08:57 <wall[e]> :)
May 09 22:09:17 <ShadowJK> yes, I know when PA came, because all movie players stopped working, and music playing apps stopped hanging..
May 09 22:09:26 <wall[e]> i guess i need a widget
May 09 22:09:57 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: profiles are your friend
May 09 22:10:03 <DocScrutinizer> check tweakr
May 09 22:10:20 <wall[e]> DocScrutinizer, ah, i installed tweakr but i didn't know it allow more profiles
May 09 22:10:21 <wall[e]> thanks!
May 09 22:10:25 <DocScrutinizer> hooray, 10 minutes past 0:00
May 09 22:10:40 <wall[e]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAUcrUO8rQQ
May 09 22:10:45 <wall[e]> you guys probably have seen that
May 09 22:10:56 <wall[e]> it's creativetone playing with mypaint on n900 i think it's very cool
May 09 22:11:25 <DocScrutinizer> war is over ;-P
May 09 22:12:05 <wall[e]> :D
May 09 22:12:52 <wall[e]> rtorrent rocks!
May 09 22:13:55 <wall[e]> now i need a step by step partitioning guide.
May 09 22:14:02 * wall[e] feels silly
May 09 22:14:14 <wall[e]> just doesn't want to do something wrong :P
May 09 22:15:32 <wall[e]> (for a person who occasionally fix linux kernel)
May 09 22:16:09 <SpeedEvil> I 'simply' tarred up mydocs, and stuck the tgz on /home
May 09 22:16:30 <SpeedEvil> Deleted and recreated the mydocs partition.
May 09 22:16:30 <wall[e]> good idea!
May 09 22:16:39 <SpeedEvil> as a 4G partition
May 09 22:16:44 <SpeedEvil> mkdosfs'd it
May 09 22:16:55 <SpeedEvil> then made a 28G remainder partition
May 09 22:17:01 <SpeedEvil> and made that ext3
May 09 22:17:12 <wall[e]> must store it on a different machine though, now i used 20gb
May 09 22:18:02 <wall[e]> ok, thanks, let's do it
May 09 22:18:03 <Arkenoi> i see usb hostmode enthusiasts are not going to give up. that's good, maybe someday they get it working
May 09 22:19:03 <wall[e]> i guess i didn't need doc but inspiration :S
May 09 22:20:34 <lcuk> wall[e], very nice :) (mypaint vid)
May 09 22:21:06 <DocScrutinizer> Arkenoi: you're kidding??
May 09 22:21:06 <wall[e]> lcuk, yeh, did you check the mypaint thread? creative tone and possibly me have some arts there :)
May 09 22:21:16 <wall[e]> and more others
May 09 22:21:37 <lcuk> not yet i havent
May 09 22:21:57 <DocScrutinizer> Arkenoi: we're just days, maybe hours away from a fully working hostmode iimplementation
May 09 22:21:59 <lcuk> it would be good if the forum could make a page showing all the art/photos in a thread
May 09 22:22:11 <lcuk> ie minimal comment breaks and just gallery page
May 09 22:22:12 <wall[e]> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41807
May 09 22:22:13 <Arkenoi> DocScrutinizer, i hope it is true
May 09 22:22:15 <wall[e]> yes
May 09 22:22:40 <DocScrutinizer> Arkenoi: basically hostmode IS THERE already
May 09 22:22:53 <DocScrutinizer> see today's post of egoshin
May 09 22:22:58 <lcuk> i wonder if theres a plugin for hte forum software to do it
May 09 22:23:05 <DocScrutinizer> and my answer clearly stating that
May 09 22:23:12 <lcuk> of how easy it would be to make
May 09 22:23:16 <lcuk> or
May 09 22:23:38 <wall[e]> i think so
May 09 22:23:42 <wall[e]> already plugins
May 09 22:24:14 <DocScrutinizer> Arkenoi: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650145#post650145
May 09 22:24:39 <lcuk> wall[e], if you could find one and post it on the forum as an idea?
May 09 22:24:53 <lcuk> see if its feasible :)
May 09 22:24:55 <wall[e]> http://www.photopost.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121701
May 09 22:25:14 <wall[e]> 60 usd?
May 09 22:25:25 <wall[e]> bot wrote by the guy who made vb
May 09 22:25:26 <wall[e]> er
May 09 22:25:39 <wall[e]> ybullatin
May 09 22:25:57 <wall[e]> n/m that link
May 09 22:26:08 <wall[e]> i confuse vbulletin with ybulletin
May 09 22:26:28 <wall[e]> ok, it's vbulletin
May 09 22:26:31 <wall[e]> argh
May 09 22:27:43 <lcuk> wall[e], thats a bit more than i was thinking (not money, the features lol) i just thought show all photos ;)
May 09 22:28:02 <lcuk> not making an entire subforum
May 09 22:28:09 <wall[e]> hehe
May 09 22:31:48 <Macer> ugh
May 09 22:31:59 <Macer> i just went through a ton of crap just to get my zimbra stats working properly
May 09 22:32:15 <Macer> at least the battery life in kubuntu on this macbook is a lot better now that i realized i had it set to the wrong cpu settings
May 09 22:34:44 <wall[e]> what does pi/14 means for rotation?
May 09 22:34:50 <wall[e]> why 14?
May 09 22:35:54 <lcuk> wall[e], sometimes more context helps, its a fraction?
May 09 22:36:17 <wall[e]> command == 'RotateRight': self.tdw.rotate(+2*math.pi/14) is the rotation code in MyPaint
May 09 22:36:33 <lcuk> right, its just the stepsize they use?
May 09 22:36:48 <wall[e]> i don't know, why they use 14
May 09 22:36:57 <wall[e]> like i should rotate 15 degree
May 09 22:37:09 <lcuk> you are right, they should have used 13
May 09 22:37:19 <asjWrk> well is it degrees or radians?
May 09 22:37:31 <lcuk> wall[e], what on earth does it matter?
May 09 22:37:55 <lcuk> its an arbritary figure - change it if you dont like it, but expect users who use it to shout
May 09 22:37:57 <wall[e]> the rotation of canvas in mypaint
May 09 22:38:16 <wall[e]> i wonder if there's some maths behind this or they just invent the number
May 09 22:38:30 <lcuk> "i need to rotate it a bit"
May 09 22:38:47 <wall[e]> 15 is also a bit, it isn't even configurable
May 09 22:38:48 <lcuk> they are dividing by whole circle, it just rotates
May 09 22:38:50 <asjWrk> 28 steps in a full rotation? or just under 2 rotations a second at 60fps? <shrug>
May 09 22:39:07 <lcuk> its a nonesense
May 09 22:39:11 <lcuk> a folly figure
May 09 22:39:19 <lcuk> disregard or your mind will explode
May 09 22:39:24 <wall[e]> i guess
May 09 22:39:28 <wall[e]> lolll
May 09 22:39:47 <wall[e]> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=650923#post650923
May 09 22:39:50 <wall[e]> i am not alone!
May 09 22:39:53 <lcuk> i have such figures in the early liqbubbles thing im playing with
May 09 22:39:57 <lcuk> on desktop it runs too fast
May 09 22:40:02 <lcuk> on 900 its just about right
May 09 22:41:23 <asjWrk> lcuk: where's the turbo button when you need it?
May 09 22:41:51 <lcuk> asjWrk :) this test code is the first ive written in python
May 09 22:41:58 <lcuk> it needs converting to c or c++
May 09 22:42:03 <asjWrk> lcuk: python, say no more ;)
May 09 22:42:05 <lcuk> to be as fast as liqbase
May 09 22:46:30 <SpeedEvil> Argh. /me should sometimes listen to the voices.
May 09 22:46:40 <Gh0sty> nice nice, autodisconnect application rulez :)
May 09 22:47:09 <SpeedEvil> I thought a while ago 'You should really investigate that 'boot other OSs stub' for putting a simple rescue script in it that let you ssh in.
May 09 22:47:20 <Gh0sty> DocScrutinizer: think it was you who mentioned there was somewhere a list of bluetooth earphones on the wiki ... just looked a bit around but can't find it :(
May 09 22:47:31 <SpeedEvil> IOW - I bootlooped it.
May 09 22:48:03 <DocScrutinizer> maybe I mentioned it, but I can't remember if I actually seen it or just heard somebody talk about it
May 09 22:48:13 <SpeedEvil> ~flashing
May 09 22:48:14 <infobot> from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
May 09 22:48:21 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: congrats
May 09 22:48:23 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
May 09 22:48:26 <DocScrutinizer> how?=
May 09 22:49:23 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: hope it was for a good reason
May 09 22:49:38 <SpeedEvil> I was editing rcS-late - or whatever it's called.
May 09 22:49:46 <DocScrutinizer> yeahyeah
May 09 22:49:54 <SpeedEvil> I was making my working hacks to the system to mount /home/user/data/ - 'pretty'.
May 09 22:49:58 <SpeedEvil> A fatal mistake!
May 09 22:50:19 <DocScrutinizer> nah, the missing rescue system is the fatal mistake -of Nokia though
May 09 22:50:19 * lcuk looks at SpeedEvil sideways
May 09 22:51:03 * DocScrutinizer yawns
May 09 22:51:28 <DocScrutinizer> damn, aging a year a day makes you feel tired ;-P
May 09 22:55:01 <SpeedEvil> Combined is just rootfs + kernel?
May 09 22:55:05 <SpeedEvil> Not mmc too?
May 09 22:55:20 <DocScrutinizer> nope, no eMMC
May 09 22:55:32 <SpeedEvil> k
May 09 22:55:57 <DocScrutinizer> also you can specify what to flash and what not to flash
May 09 22:56:19 <SpeedEvil> I assume there isn't a way to copy the / off the device?
May 09 22:56:23 <SpeedEvil> with the flasher
May 09 22:56:30 <DocScrutinizer> nope :-(
May 09 22:56:40 <DocScrutinizer> not AFAIK
May 09 22:56:56 <DocScrutinizer> FAIL!!! nokia hear me? FAAAAAAIIIIIL
May 09 22:57:45 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: try -U/-D for upload/download, like for OM-flasher ;-P
May 09 22:58:52 <DocScrutinizer> if only NOLO had a way to boot from uSD... :-/
May 09 22:59:17 <DocScrutinizer> or to redirect rootfs to somewhere else
May 09 22:59:37 <MohammadAG_> can't you back up from Mer?
May 09 22:59:44 <SpeedEvil> Hmm
May 09 22:59:49 <SpeedEvil> In principle
May 09 22:59:53 <DocScrutinizer> prolly yes. but how to boot mer?
May 09 23:00:02 <MohammadAG_> install bootmenu to flash the initfs
May 09 23:00:09 <b-man|laptop> if only NOLO was open source - then we could multiboot kernels :)
May 09 23:00:11 <MohammadAG_> (to show a bootloader at bootup)
May 09 23:00:11 <lcuk> MohammadAG_, requires preplanning
May 09 23:00:12 <DocScrutinizer> needs botmenu -> edit /fs
May 09 23:00:18 <SpeedEvil> I suppose I could use the flasher to pass a commandline saying rootfs=/dev/mmcblk1
May 09 23:00:26 <MohammadAG_> lcuk, oh, didn't notice he borked the device
May 09 23:00:26 <lcuk> there is a window in the boot sequence which Stskeeps put in for pr1.1
May 09 23:00:44 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: however - it requires a script already on the device
May 09 23:00:47 <lcuk> but that even requires a file to be placed there prior to breakage
May 09 23:00:50 <lcuk> yes
May 09 23:01:06 <MohammadAG_> (should've been @ me but wth, blame lcuk for everything)
May 09 23:01:07 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: that would be great
May 09 23:01:12 <MohammadAG_> :P
May 09 23:01:27 <lcuk> consider what functionality would be required and the skills needed to implement a rescue core based on it?
May 09 23:01:31 <lcuk> get it into extras?
May 09 23:01:52 <lcuk> thats a first viable step?
May 09 23:02:01 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: well - not really
May 09 23:02:03 <MohammadAG_> or they could open up flasher
May 09 23:02:08 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: extras doesn't help at all
May 09 23:02:12 <MohammadAG_> (nvm, that won't happen in the near future)
May 09 23:02:18 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, for a first step it does
May 09 23:02:23 <lcuk> write it
May 09 23:02:23 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: go ahead!
May 09 23:02:23 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: the ideal would be a small rescue image that you can copy to a mmc
May 09 23:02:25 <lcuk> well
May 09 23:02:33 <lcuk> no DocScrutinizer i have other things to consider
May 09 23:02:39 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: and use flasher to boot a kernel that boots that
May 09 23:02:52 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, difficult
May 09 23:02:57 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: why?
May 09 23:03:02 <lcuk> not all users use command line flasher
May 09 23:03:07 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: meh
May 09 23:03:13 <lcuk> im thinking an oh crap my machine is dead moment for a regular user
May 09 23:03:14 <SpeedEvil> I don't care about them!
May 09 23:03:17 <SpeedEvil> I care aobut me!
May 09 23:03:19 <MohammadAG_> not all users break their devices :)
May 09 23:03:21 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: think that's exactly what I said, no?
May 09 23:03:26 <Gizmokid2005> I stupidly encrypted my backup that I made before I reflashed...and now most of my applications didn't restore...is there any way that I can decrypt the backup file on my n900 to get the /Root/var/lib/hildon-application-manager/packages.backup file extracted so I can reinstall?
May 09 23:03:44 <MohammadAG_> it's a regular zip file
May 09 23:03:45 <lcuk> absolutely MohammadAG_
May 09 23:03:50 <Gizmokid2005> MohammadAG_: not when it's encrypted
May 09 23:03:59 <MohammadAG_> decrypt it
May 09 23:04:01 <SpeedEvil> Gizmokid2005: you know the password?
May 09 23:04:10 <Gizmokid2005> it extracts to an applications.zip.cpgz
May 09 23:04:21 <Gizmokid2005> I do SpeedEvil, I just can't seem to figure out how to decrypt it on my computer
May 09 23:04:26 <Gizmokid2005> to just view the file.
May 09 23:04:32 <MohammadAG_> how'd you encript it?
May 09 23:04:35 <MohammadAG_> encrypt*
May 09 23:04:37 <b-man|laptop> MohammadAG_: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/ - too bad it only works with the N770, N800, and N810
May 09 23:04:45 <Gizmokid2005> I don't want my N900 to try to restore it, I just want to decrypt it so I can view the file
May 09 23:04:48 <Gizmokid2005> with the Backup utility
May 09 23:04:53 <MohammadAG_> oh
May 09 23:05:12 <MohammadAG_> b-man|laptop, omg?
May 09 23:05:20 <b-man|laptop> hehe
May 09 23:05:32 <Gizmokid2005> and I know the password, and I know the file I want...but I can't get it to open once I get the file to my laptop (since it's pw protected)...
May 09 23:05:59 <asjWrk> Gizmokid2005: run file <filename> perhaps it'll clue you in on the crypto tool
May 09 23:06:00 * Arkenoi wonders if there will ever be decent DtG release, the initial one just sucks
May 09 23:06:03 <b-man|laptop> MohammadAG_: it partially works with the N900 ;)
May 09 23:06:46 <b-man|laptop> MohammadAG_: it can do fw dumps - but can't flash yet
May 09 23:06:59 <MohammadAG_> err
May 09 23:07:03 <DocScrutinizer> b-man|laptop: partially as in 'flashes half of the kernel and half of the rootfs"?
May 09 23:07:04 <MohammadAG_> fw dumps?
May 09 23:07:28 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ^^^ dumps!
May 09 23:07:35 <b-man|laptop> firmware dumps; ie extract the 1st and 2nd bootloaders
May 09 23:07:44 <DocScrutinizer> from WHERE?
May 09 23:07:47 <b-man|laptop> or anything else
May 09 23:07:57 <b-man|laptop> from the NAND xD
May 09 23:08:03 <DocScrutinizer> from flike or from device?
May 09 23:08:11 <DocScrutinizer> file...
May 09 23:08:12 <b-man|laptop> from the device xD
May 09 23:08:14 <MohammadAG_> device, if it's a dump
May 09 23:08:16 <MohammadAG_> ^
May 09 23:08:19 <DocScrutinizer> from NAND!! SpeedEvil !!!!!
May 09 23:08:28 <MohammadAG_> lol that's why I was asking
May 09 23:08:43 <b-man|laptop> rofl
May 09 23:09:04 <MohammadAG_> I wonder if SpeedEvil hit enter
May 09 23:09:04 <Gizmokid2005> asjWrk: on what?
May 09 23:09:07 <SpeedEvil> ?
May 09 23:09:10 <MohammadAG_> hope he forgets the sudo
May 09 23:09:20 <asjWrk> Gizmokid2005: the crypted backup file
May 09 23:09:20 <MohammadAG_> <DocScrutinizer> from NAND!! SpeedEvil !!!!!
May 09 23:09:27 <b-man|laptop> xDDD
May 09 23:09:41 <SpeedEvil> oh.
May 09 23:09:50 <Gizmokid2005> asjWrk: I know, but on the N900?
May 09 23:10:02 <asjWrk> Gizmokid2005: no on your desktop linux machine
May 09 23:10:11 <SpeedEvil> But even if that works - how could I mount a ubifs image?
May 09 23:10:15 <Gizmokid2005> asjWrk: running it on OSX
May 09 23:10:23 <MohammadAG_> SpeedEvil, with a ubifs enabled kernel
May 09 23:10:27 <Gizmokid2005> I may try to pull it apart with 7-zip on my windows box though..
May 09 23:10:36 <b-man|laptop> or a ubifs kernel module
May 09 23:10:38 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG_: ubifs is not a block device fs
May 09 23:10:41 <asjWrk> Gizmokid2005: oh well, your sol
May 09 23:10:51 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG_: it's a NAND fs. My laptop has no NAND
May 09 23:10:55 <MohammadAG_> ~ubifs
May 09 23:11:06 <MohammadAG_> infobot, ubifs is http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=403015&postcount=3
May 09 23:11:06 <infobot> MohammadAG_: okay
May 09 23:11:10 <MohammadAG_> SpeedEvil, that ^
May 09 23:11:29 <Gizmokid2005> so there's no way to just get the applications.zip out of the encrypted backup file?
May 09 23:11:31 <SpeedEvil> ah
May 09 23:11:32 <Gizmokid2005> at /all/?
May 09 23:12:16 <DocScrutinizer> Gizmokid2005: try with a decent unzipper tol, whatever there might be available on macOS
May 09 23:12:23 <DocScrutinizer> tool even
May 09 23:12:36 <DocScrutinizer> or unzip on N900, with unzip
May 09 23:12:39 <Gizmokid2005> I've tried it with both the built-in utility and StuffIt Expander
May 09 23:12:46 <Gizmokid2005> will that actually work?
May 09 23:12:51 <DocScrutinizer> dunno
May 09 23:12:53 <Jiri-> Hello
May 09 23:12:54 <DocScrutinizer> never tried
May 09 23:13:00 <MohammadAG_> Gizmokid2005, what do you want to do exactly?
May 09 23:13:04 <Gizmokid2005> worth a shot I suppose
May 09 23:13:16 <Jiri-> Anyone can help me with Ovi map loader with n900? says all the time waiting for phone!
May 09 23:13:23 <MohammadAG_> the restored decrypted file should be in /var/lib/hildon-application-manager/packages.backup
May 09 23:13:25 <Gizmokid2005> MohammadAG_: I just want the packages.backup file out of my latest backup, since my N900 didn't seem to want to install nearly /any/ of my applications I had installed.
May 09 23:13:36 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: he created a backup with backup tool on N900 and gave it a password
May 09 23:13:37 <MohammadAG_> Gizmokid2005, restore backup and cat the file above
May 09 23:13:43 <Gizmokid2005> MohammadAG_: checking
May 09 23:13:44 <asjWrk> MohammadAG_: the N900 backup utility can create an encrypted backup file, he wants to decrypt it himself
May 09 23:13:45 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, yeah I got that part ;)
May 09 23:13:52 <MohammadAG_> I got that part too
May 09 23:14:00 <MohammadAG_> (aren't they the same :P)
May 09 23:14:10 <asjWrk> MohammadAG_: but he has useless operating systems and can't
May 09 23:14:28 <MohammadAG_> asjWrk, but his N900 should have it decrypted as /var/lib/hildon-application-manager/packages.backup
May 09 23:14:41 <MohammadAG_> I doubt HAM handles decryption
May 09 23:14:52 <MohammadAG_> (which would be stupid tbh)
May 09 23:15:00 <asjWrk> MohammadAG_: yeah but <shrug> :)
May 09 23:15:01 <DocScrutinizer> Gizmokid2005: errr, do I get that right you're talking about apt's database file?
May 09 23:15:16 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, HAM file
May 09 23:15:17 <Gizmokid2005> MohammadAG_: it seems to be there...Hmm, my backup file doesn't really seem to have everything...IE - I KNOW I had witter installed, but it's not in the list...
May 09 23:15:29 <Gizmokid2005> DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG_'s idea seems to be what I want
May 09 23:15:30 <MohammadAG_> Gizmokid2005, are you sure you restored the right backup?
May 09 23:15:33 <Gizmokid2005> yep
May 09 23:15:35 <asjWrk> witter is pretty bad, tyou don't really want it ;)
May 09 23:15:39 <Gizmokid2005> I only have 2...
May 09 23:15:40 <MohammadAG_> lol
May 09 23:15:43 <Gizmokid2005> asjWrk: :P I do though :D
May 09 23:15:52 <Gizmokid2005> an encrypted and an unencrypted backup
May 09 23:15:53 <asjWrk> Gizmokid2005: your phone agrees with me
May 09 23:15:56 <Gizmokid2005> LOL asedeno_work
May 09 23:16:00 <Gizmokid2005> ** asjWrk
May 09 23:16:03 <MohammadAG_> no idea why it wasn't backed up, it should be in user/
May 09 23:16:11 <Gizmokid2005> eh, oh well.
May 09 23:16:13 <MohammadAG_> user/*
May 09 23:16:17 <asjWrk> just reinstall...it's not that hard
May 09 23:16:20 <Gizmokid2005> I haven't changed much since my last backup
May 09 23:16:32 <DocScrutinizer> I don't get it now... Why don't you just restore the applications from backup tool??
May 09 23:16:53 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, read my suggestion 10+ lines up :P
May 09 23:16:55 <Gizmokid2005> I know asjWrk, but that's not the only thing missing...but I can't place exactly what all wasn't reinstalled (besides the extra protocol plugins ( a few of them)), but like I'd get told, if I need it, and it's not there, it probably wasn't reinstalled...
May 09 23:17:05 <Gizmokid2005> DocScrutinizer: I tried...but it seems to have missed a lot
May 09 23:17:15 <Gizmokid2005> whether that actually be the fault of the backup or not...I"m not really sure.
May 09 23:17:19 <MohammadAG_> <MohammadAG_> asjWrk, but his N900 should have it decrypted (Edit: by the backup tool) as /var/lib/hildon-application-manager/packages.backup
May 09 23:17:39 <DocScrutinizer> then something is borked and extracting any file manually won't help out of that
May 09 23:17:44 <Gizmokid2005> MohammadAG_: is right, the timestamp is 1837 locally which is correct I do believe.
May 09 23:17:49 <asjWrk> MohammadAG_: I'm wondering if he's restoring after having installed the fake PR1.2 and deps are screwed up
May 09 23:17:54 <Gizmokid2005> Nope.
May 09 23:17:57 <Gizmokid2005> never installed PR1.2
May 09 23:18:10 <MohammadAG_> asjWrk, it doesn't backup version apps
May 09 23:18:15 <MohammadAG_> the backup tool
May 09 23:18:21 <MohammadAG_> not sure about 1.2 though
May 09 23:18:26 <Gizmokid2005> I was reflashing 1.1.1 becuase I've had some weird issues with it (going slow, not taking calls, random reboots (twice) etc.)
May 09 23:18:30 <ohwhyme> anyone get jagged alliance 2 to work?
May 09 23:18:36 <asjWrk> MohammadAG_: I'm thinking couldn't satisfy qt deps
May 09 23:18:36 <Gizmokid2005> my phone was 1.1 then OTA updated to 1.1.1.
May 09 23:18:47 <MohammadAG_> asjWrk, well witter is pygtk afaik
May 09 23:18:59 <asjWrk> MohammadAG_: yeah, sadly
May 09 23:19:18 <Gizmokid2005> the extra protocol plugins wouldn't reinstall due to some "upstart-job" but I found the answer to that.
May 09 23:19:39 <Gizmokid2005> I'll just pull the older unencrypted backup and check the apps from that
May 09 23:19:57 <Gizmokid2005> thanks for the help guys :) I can manually reinstall the apps, that doesn't bother me. I've been meaning to clean out the dead weight anyways...
May 09 23:20:05 <MohammadAG_> sample .backup file http://pastebin.com/nHhkkM9d
May 09 23:20:09 <MohammadAG_> yeah, my backups are epic
May 09 23:20:11 <Jiri-> Please help me with ovi map loader.. n900, win7 saying all the time waiting for phones
May 09 23:20:12 <DocScrutinizer> Gizmokid2005: you considered taking a peep at HAM's installation log?
May 09 23:20:19 <MohammadAG_> 119 applications
May 09 23:20:28 <Gizmokid2005> MohammadAG_: I was close to that, 101 last I knew...
May 09 23:20:37 <SpeedEvil> MohammadAG_: You do  know that they're not pokemon?
May 09 23:20:39 <Gizmokid2005> DocScrutinizer: never heard of it...so no?
May 09 23:20:52 <MohammadAG_> Gizmokid2005, that was after a cleanup
May 09 23:20:59 <MohammadAG_> SpeedEvil, I almost choked xD
May 09 23:21:01 <Gizmokid2005> haha MohammadAG_, so was mine :P
May 09 23:21:13 <MohammadAG_> they were 156 :)
May 09 23:22:07 <MohammadAG_> my bad, 116
May 09 23:22:14 <MohammadAG_> I counted the xml crap
May 09 23:22:19 <Gizmokid2005> MohammadAG_: http://gizmokid2005.pastebin.com/QejivkgC
May 09 23:22:32 <Gizmokid2005> 137 in my late april backup
May 09 23:23:00 <MohammadAG_> bah
May 09 23:23:01 <MohammadAG_> :P
May 09 23:23:04 <Gizmokid2005> :P
May 09 23:23:12 <Gizmokid2005> I only paid for ONE app for my phone
May 09 23:23:25 <MohammadAG_> angrybirds?
May 09 23:23:26 <Gizmokid2005> Line 38
May 09 23:23:32 <MohammadAG_> or joikuspot
May 09 23:23:34 * MohammadAG_ checks
May 09 23:23:42 <Gizmokid2005> Nope, each time I went to buy the extra levels, they weren't in the Ovi store because of their issues.
May 09 23:23:55 <MohammadAG_> got them using apt-get
May 09 23:23:57 <Gizmokid2005> and I only bought that because I"m lazy, but I LOVE the app, can't go wrong for $3.75
May 09 23:24:02 <MohammadAG_> then paid later on when they appeared
May 09 23:24:19 <Gizmokid2005> MohammadAG_: yeah, I didn't catch them either time...and last time I looked they STILL weren't there.
May 09 23:27:10 <Gizmokid2005> hmmm...
May 09 23:42:38 <maddler> anyone ecperiencing SIM registration error in here?
May 09 23:43:29 <maddler> s/ec/ex/
May 09 23:44:15 <Scifi_> Hi, how long does it take to receive the invite to upload to extras-devel?
May 09 23:44:28 <MohammadAG_> a day or two
May 09 23:44:48 <MohammadAG_> could be less on non-weekend days
May 09 23:44:56 <Scifi_> MohammadAG_: Oh ok, thanks. I requested yesterday
May 09 23:45:11 <MohammadAG_> sunday, most probably no one even checked them
May 09 23:46:09 <Scifi_> I thought so. But I am too eager with this being my first app and all :)
May 09 23:49:34 <zlimvos> i feel like a retard.. cant find the external card i just inserted on my n900... where is that folder? nothing under /mnt
May 09 23:50:13 <SpeedEvil> df
May 09 23:50:22 <Scifi_> zlimvos: tried /media ?
May 09 23:50:39 <kynky> SpeedEvils way is best
May 09 23:51:12 <timeless_mbp> maddler: i've hit it once or twice
May 09 23:51:21 <timeless_mbp> (out of perhaps a thousand boots)
May 09 23:51:57 <zlimvos> thanx both i think its just too late and i cant think. the /media/mmc1 folder is empty. i guess ill have to manual mount it
May 09 23:52:54 <zlimvos> ill look it up tomorrow, ty all and gnight for europeans
May 09 23:53:05 <MohammadAG_> zlimvos,
May 09 23:53:11 <MohammadAG_> did you close the battery cover?
May 09 23:53:21 <zlimvos> ye
May 09 23:53:28 <MohammadAG_> is it vfat?
May 09 23:53:40 <zlimvos> hmmm it could be ntfs..
May 09 23:53:57 <kynky> there is ntfs3g
May 09 23:54:52 <zlimvos> i see kernel-module-ntfs in appman i guess i need that
May 09 23:54:57 <timeless_mbp> zlimvos: dmesg
May 09 23:55:16 <timeless_mbp> it should at least give you a hint about why it didn't load
May 09 23:57:45 <zlimvos> nice timeless thanx for helping me remember my linux whereabouts
May 09 23:58:12 <timeless_mbp> you can also install sysklogd if you're so inclined
May 09 23:58:23 <zlimvos> bad thing dmesg is quite happy with my mmc and recognized it
May 09 23:58:26 * timeless_mbp would be inclined to just mount it w/ a normal computer
May 09 23:58:35 <timeless_mbp> zlimvos: what did it say about it?
May 09 23:58:52 <timeless_mbp> dmesg is your kernel's output about whatever
May 09 23:59:27 <zlimvos> at the end new high speed SDHC card at address d55
May 09 23:59:27 <zlimvos> mmcb1k1:mmc0:d555 SU08G 7.60GiB
May 10 00:00:48 <zlimvos> let me add the ntfs support from the reps
May 10 00:00:53 <timeless_mbp> hrm, i was hoping it'd be more talkative
May 10 00:00:58 <timeless_mbp> oh well :)
May 10 00:01:21 <zlimvos> i hope its just the file system as suggested. but dmesg is fun!
May 10 00:01:23 <zlimvos> :)
May 10 00:03:50 <zlimvos> ok maybe my last question, any idea how can i re-initiate the mmc recognition process without physically removing it and reinserting it?
May 10 00:04:26 <SpeedEvil> remove and replace the back cover
May 10 00:08:48 <zlimvos> ok ty again. mor tomorrow im off gnights
May 10 00:39:07 <Termana> good morning
May 10 00:41:15 <timeless_mbp> not really
May 10 00:41:20 * timeless_mbp cancels travel plans
May 10 00:41:31 <asjWrk> timeless_mbp: ?
May 10 00:41:52 <timeless_mbp> i counted an my chickens before an egg was laid
May 10 00:42:04 <timeless_mbp> and it isn't going to be laid, so it won't hatch, and i won't be flying
May 10 00:42:44 * GeneralAntilles complains about application announcements that aren't quotable.
May 10 00:43:03 <asjWrk> timeless_mbp: at least it won't be roten
May 10 00:46:34 <wall[e]> anyone has problem flickr setting crash all the time?
May 10 00:47:51 <maddler> wall[e]: let me try
May 10 00:48:13 <wall[e]> i remove my flickr acct and add it back
May 10 00:48:33 <wall[e]> didn't help, removing the flickr and reinstall didn't help
May 10 00:48:41 <wall[e]> wonder if there's a config file i can remove
May 10 00:49:19 <maddler> working fine here
May 10 00:49:25 <wall[e]> ugh
May 10 00:49:49 <SpeedEvil> how does a setting crash?
May 10 00:49:57 <wall[e]> internal error
May 10 00:50:25 <wall[e]> i guess reflash
May 10 00:51:51 <wall[e]> do you know if sharing use python services some how?
May 10 00:52:03 <wall[e]> i wonder if installing of mypaint from testing cause that
May 10 00:55:12 <wall[e]> er devl
May 10 00:55:16 <wall[e]> devel
May 10 01:00:16 <wall[e]> hmm no it's something to do in dbus level
May 10 01:01:10 <wall[e]> sharing-accountstore.c 516 sharing_account_store_add_account Last added id exists: 15
May 10 01:01:10 <wall[e]> process 2478: arguments to dbus_bus_request_name() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_bus_name (name)" failed in file dbus-bus.c line 1070.
May 10 01:02:11 <Pekuja_> is there any info on when PR 1.2 will be out?
May 10 01:02:17 <wall[e]> see topic
May 10 01:02:17 <MohammadAG_> read the topic
May 10 01:02:32 * wall[e] scores 1:0
May 10 01:02:40 <MohammadAG_> [04:02:21:02S] <MohammadAG_> read the topic
May 10 01:02:40 <MohammadAG_> [04:02:21:02S] <wall[e]> see topic
May 10 01:02:45 * MohammadAG_ scores 1:1
May 10 01:02:47 <wall[e]> lol
May 10 01:02:51 <asjWrk> wall[e]: you can't score till the /kick
May 10 01:02:54 <MohammadAG_> same MS
May 10 01:03:04 <wall[e]> lol
May 10 01:03:07 <MohammadAG_>  /kick asjWrk *scores*
May 10 01:03:19 <wall[e]> lmao
May 10 01:03:33 <asjWrk> MohammadAG_: hehe, you love me to much ;)
May 10 01:03:58 <MohammadAG_> /kickban asjWrk no i don't :P
May 10 01:04:09 * asjWrk feels the love :)
May 10 01:04:42 * MohammadAG_ feels awkward...
May 10 01:05:59 <wall[e]> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10089
May 10 01:06:00 <povbot> Bug 10089: Cannot create Flickr sharing account: "Internal error. Application 'Settings' closed."
May 10 01:06:00 <wall[e]> no luck
May 10 01:06:35 <Dassu> >:)
May 10 01:06:52 <Pekuja_> wall[e]: well the topic doesn't really tell, but I guess there's no info then
May 10 01:07:50 <wall[e]> i've heard they have bug to fix
May 10 01:07:55 <wall[e]> so it must be late
May 10 01:08:55 <caoticM> is there any alternative application for the n900 to access installed applications ?
May 10 01:09:16 <DocScrutinizer> Pekuja_: which part of "NO PR1.2 YET, askers will get kicked http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=638289#post638289" was unclear?
May 10 01:09:24 <wall[e]> i can backup-reflash and get everything back right?
May 10 01:09:59 <Pekuja_> DocScrutinizer: I did not ask *for* PR1.2. I asked *about* it.
May 10 01:10:26 <wall[e]> yeh that was in a thin gray line
May 10 01:10:27 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, ok. But Nokia *never* announces any release dates
May 10 01:10:28 <wall[e]> :)
May 10 01:10:29 <MohammadAG_> we did not specify what you could or could not ask
May 10 01:10:57 <Pekuja_> MohammadAG_: then perhaps everybody who asks any question should be kicked?
May 10 01:11:03 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, change topic to PR1.2* will get kicked?
May 10 01:11:14 <MohammadAG_> Pekuja_, we're not that strict...
May 10 01:11:19 <MohammadAG_> otherwise you'd be gone :P
May 10 01:11:27 <DocScrutinizer> ¿ rotated by 180° triggers auto-kickban ;-P
May 10 01:11:35 <MohammadAG_> ?
May 10 01:11:37 <MohammadAG_> :P
May 10 01:11:54 <wall[e]> looks like espanol
May 10 01:11:58 * MohammadAG_ demands a kick
May 10 01:12:11 <MohammadAG_> I'll sue if I don't get it
May 10 01:12:14 <MohammadAG_> it's a right!
May 10 01:12:45 <Pekuja_> I assumed the topic meant that you can't ask for the illegaly leaked files
May 10 01:12:53 <wall[e]> sounds like foot fetishism
May 10 01:13:03 <MohammadAG_> LOL perv
May 10 01:13:08 * wall[e] hides.
May 10 01:14:23 <wall[e]> Pekuja_, oh, i think that assumption make a lot of sense to me
May 10 01:14:32 <wall[e]> i'd assume like that too, thinking about it.
May 10 01:14:38 <Pekuja_> hehe
May 10 01:14:49 <Macer> it sucks having been in the USMC and watching the pacific because i already know john basilone dies
May 10 01:15:34 * MohammadAG_ kicks wall[e] 
May 10 01:15:37 <DocScrutinizer> err aha
May 10 01:15:50 * wall[e] rolls away.
May 10 01:15:52 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
May 10 01:15:52 <infobot> :), DocScrutinizer
May 10 01:16:03 <MohammadAG_> ~botsnack
May 10 01:16:03 <infobot> thanks, MohammadAG_
May 10 01:16:13 <Macer> in the movie he dies wrong though. he was actually killed by shrapnel
May 10 01:16:20 <MohammadAG_> does it get overweight if we keep doing that?
May 10 01:16:22 <Macer> er.. show
May 10 01:16:54 <DocScrutinizer> seems she's suffering from that already
May 10 01:17:09 <MohammadAG_> ooh, a she?
May 10 01:17:18 <DocScrutinizer> ~attack MohammadAG_
May 10 01:17:20 <MohammadAG_> never knew bots were she-s
May 10 01:17:30 * MohammadAG_ laughs as the command fails
May 10 01:17:32 <DocScrutinizer> ~ignore MohammadAG_
May 10 01:17:41 <MohammadAG_> ~unignore MohammadAG_
May 10 01:17:53 <DocScrutinizer> blarg
May 10 01:17:55 <MohammadAG_> yep, she's overweight
May 10 01:17:59 <DocScrutinizer> s/r/rr/
May 10 01:17:59 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: blarrg
May 10 01:18:05 <DocScrutinizer> weird
May 10 01:18:12 <MohammadAG_> ~nuke DocScrutinizer
May 10 01:18:16 <MohammadAG_> that too
May 10 01:18:29 <MohammadAG_> think she's out of missiles
May 10 01:18:30 <Dassu> eh... has the "save link as" feature been removed from microb?
May 10 01:18:38 <MohammadAG_> nope
May 10 01:18:47 <Dassu> doesn't seem to be working for me
May 10 01:18:59 <DocScrutinizer> I think she experienced a lobotomy
May 10 01:19:07 <DocScrutinizer> ~lobotomy
May 10 01:19:07 <infobot> I feel different somehow.
May 10 01:19:33 <DocScrutinizer> ~status
May 10 01:19:33 <infobot> Since Fri Apr 30 19:47:02 2010, there have been 66 modifications, 458 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 280 commands.  I have been awake for 9d 5h 32m 30s this session, and currently reference 0 factoids.  I'm using about 41976 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 22972.96/633.33 child 0.17/0.09
May 10 01:20:01 <MohammadAG_> 0?
May 10 01:20:29 * GeneralAntilles guesses konttori is not the person to talk to about pushing Fremantle issues anymore.
May 10 01:20:34 <DocScrutinizer> ~factstats
May 10 01:20:38 * GeneralAntilles guesses Fremantle is more stillborn now that he suspected.
May 10 01:20:52 <Dassu> MohammadAG_: it appears that with mp3's the "save link as" is not present O_o
May 10 01:21:00 <MohammadAG_> ~help
May 10 01:21:18 <Dassu> yep
May 10 01:21:22 <MohammadAG_> unlobotomy <--?
May 10 01:21:33 <DocScrutinizer> ~flashing
May 10 01:21:34 <infobot> rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
May 10 01:21:34 <Dassu> wtf....
May 10 01:21:48 <Dassu> jesus, why would they do that
May 10 01:22:50 <Dassu> guess I have to limit mp3's from mplayer plugin
May 10 01:24:07 <SpeedEvil> downloading a podcast in the browser gave me the option to dave it or play it in media player.
May 10 01:24:12 <DocScrutinizer> ~ping
May 10 01:24:15 <jacekowski> hmm
May 10 01:24:16 <infobot> ~pong
May 10 01:24:21 <DocScrutinizer> pfft
May 10 01:24:24 <MohammadAG_> ~lart DocScrutinizer
May 10 01:24:26 * infobot declares DocScrutinizer a moron
May 10 01:24:28 <SpeedEvil> But in media player, I can't tell it to get it all, as I'm going to be going out of coverage
May 10 01:24:32 <SpeedEvil> which is annoying
May 10 01:24:51 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, maybe she went corrupt?
May 10 01:24:59 <DocScrutinizer> seems like, yes
May 10 01:25:07 <jacekowski> have anybody tried to create iphone emulator for maemo?
May 10 01:25:08 <MohammadAG_> Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting
May 10 01:25:16 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: I tried.
May 10 01:25:19 <jacekowski> and?
May 10 01:25:24 <DocScrutinizer> holiday on Maggie's Farm
May 10 01:25:28 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: It turns out wishing really hard doesn't make it true.
May 10 01:25:53 <DocScrutinizer> she doesn't talk to me at all now, in private query :-S
May 10 01:25:54 <jacekowski> maybe somebody else tried harder?
May 10 01:25:58 <SpeedEvil> Perhaps.
May 10 01:26:05 <jacekowski> i spent last couple hours coding
May 10 01:26:13 <jacekowski> and i've got something that resembles linker
May 10 01:26:18 <SpeedEvil> Iphone or android would be interesting.
May 10 01:26:32 <jacekowski> but then i saw iphone sdk
May 10 01:26:34 <SpeedEvil> Is palm emulator there?
May 10 01:26:41 <jacekowski> and it's huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge
May 10 01:26:43 <SpeedEvil> old palm that is
May 10 01:26:53 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_:
May 10 01:26:57 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-05-10 03:21:06] <DocScrutinizer> status
May 10 01:26:58 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-05-10 03:21:06] <infobot> Since Fri Apr 30 19:47:02 2010, there have been 66 modifications, 458 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 282 commands.  I have been awake for 9d 5h 34m 4s this session, and currently reference 0 factoids.  I'm using about 41976 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 22975.07/633.36 child 0.17/0.09
May 10 01:27:00 <Dassu> SpeedEvil: yes, that happens if you dont have a mplayer plugin but with mplayer plugin mp3's are oppened with mplayer-plugin. I guess telling it not to play mp3's is to best option
May 10 01:27:00 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-05-10 03:22:50] <DocScrutinizer> factstats total
May 10 01:27:01 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-05-10 03:23:37] <DocScrutinizer> total
May 10 01:27:05 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: like wine - you only really need to do the common calls
May 10 01:27:14 <SpeedEvil> Dassu: ah
May 10 01:27:27 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: not really
May 10 01:27:40 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: iphone definition of basic is different than mine
May 10 01:27:43 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, currently reference 0 factoids
May 10 01:27:44 <SpeedEvil> Commonly used calls I mean.
May 10 01:27:57 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: yes :-0
May 10 01:27:58 <SpeedEvil> If no app uses them...
May 10 01:28:11 <DocScrutinizer> though:
May 10 01:28:12 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, no restore thing?
May 10 01:28:14 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: the problem is that just hello world uses like 100 different calls
May 10 01:28:14 <DocScrutinizer> ~joerg
May 10 01:28:15 <infobot> joerg is probably a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer
May 10 01:28:24 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Impressive.
May 10 01:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> ~factinfo joerg
May 10 01:28:30 <infobot> joerg -- created by jOERG <n=jr-N810@p5493F5D9.dip.t-dialin.net> at Thu Oct 23 12:00:02 2008 (563 days); it has been requested 23 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 14s ago; it has been locked by jOERG.
May 10 01:28:45 <jacekowski> cocoa hello world i mean
May 10 01:28:52 <jacekowski> console hello world would be simpler
May 10 01:28:54 * SpeedEvil ponders cocoa.
May 10 01:29:01 * SpeedEvil gets up to get some.
May 10 01:29:31 <jacekowski> and i'm just wondering if somebody who has mac and is able to install iphone sdk to give me little bit of help
May 10 01:29:38 <MohammadAG_> ~Ubuntu MohammadAG_
May 10 01:29:40 <dotblank> ~factinfo dotblank
May 10 01:29:41 <infobot> dotblank: there's no such factoid as dotblank
May 10 01:29:45 <dotblank> :(
May 10 01:29:49 <MohammadAG_> ~Ubuntu MohammadAG_
May 10 01:29:58 <MohammadAG_> ~factinfo Ubuntu
May 10 01:29:59 <infobot> ubuntu -- last modified at Tue Oct 25 18:33:34 2005 by sinplomo; it has been requested 2 times, last by pcj at Fri Nov 21 10:46:58 2008.
May 10 01:30:05 <MohammadAG_> :/
May 10 01:30:17 <jacekowski> anyways
May 10 01:30:19 <jacekowski> good night
May 10 01:30:21 <jacekowski> time to sleep
May 10 01:30:23 <DocScrutinizer> she's sick
May 10 01:30:25 <MohammadAG_> poka
May 10 01:30:36 <DocScrutinizer> ~reboot
May 10 01:30:37 <infobot> Not on your life cowboy :(, or are you using Window$?
May 10 01:30:45 <MohammadAG_> LOL
May 10 01:31:00 <MohammadAG_> err
May 10 01:31:02 <MohammadAG_> ~wtf
May 10 01:31:10 <MohammadAG_> why is that a factoid...
May 10 01:31:13 <MohammadAG_> ~wtf MohammadAG_
May 10 01:31:13 <DocScrutinizer> k, I know how to kill her
May 10 01:31:15 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what MohammadAG_ means...
May 10 01:31:19 <MohammadAG_> ...
May 10 01:31:32 <MohammadAG_> oh
May 10 01:31:34 <MohammadAG_> ~wtf lol
May 10 01:31:36 <infobot> LOL: laughing out loud
May 10 01:31:47 <MohammadAG_> that might come handy
May 10 01:31:53 <omar> what's going on in here
May 10 01:32:03 <omar> playing w/chat bots?
May 10 01:32:15 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, ctrl+c :P
May 10 01:35:59 <DocScrutinizer> ~chaninfo
May 10 01:36:00 <infobot> I'm on 17 channels: #debian/921, #openmoko-cdevel/95, ##guleague/13, ##ducleague/11, #webos-internals/4, ##bz-inc/4, ##icf/3, #asterisk/2, #oe/2, #maemo/1, #utah/1, #meego/1, #elinux/1, ##pxe/1, #tomcat/1, #bzflag/0
May 10 01:36:01 <infobot> i've cached 1061 users, 1035 unique users, distributed over 17 channels.
May 10 01:36:13 <DocScrutinizer> rebooting?
May 10 01:36:25 <DocScrutinizer> rebooting?
May 10 01:36:27 <DocScrutinizer> ~chaninfo
May 10 01:36:27 <infobot> I'm on 19 channels: #debian/921, #openmoko-cdevel/95, ##kierra/20, ##guleague/13, #debian-bots/13, ##ducleague/11, #webos-internals/4, ##bz-inc/4, ##icf/3, #asterisk/2, #oe/2, #maemo/1, #utah/1, #meego/1, #elinux/1, ##pxe/1, #tomcat/1, #bzflag/0
May 10 01:36:28 <infobot> i've cached 1094 users, 1051 unique users, distributed over 19 channels.
May 10 01:36:44 <Macer> hm
May 10 01:36:51 <Macer> wonder if there are any zimbra apps for maemo
May 10 01:36:53 <Macer> :)
May 10 01:37:49 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: confess!! YOU rebooted her
May 10 01:38:26 <raster> DocScrutinizer: docz!
May 10 01:38:36 <MohammadAG_> :O how'd you know?!
May 10 01:38:36 <DocScrutinizer> moin raster
May 10 01:38:59 <DocScrutinizer> ~attack MohammadAG_
May 10 01:39:10 <MohammadAG_> Nooooooooooz
May 10 01:39:12 <DocScrutinizer> Hmmm
May 10 01:39:14 <raster> how goes?
May 10 01:39:21 <DocScrutinizer> older
May 10 01:39:27 <raster> hahahahah
May 10 01:40:19 <MohammadAG_> lol
May 10 01:40:22 * MohammadAG_ is off
May 10 01:40:24 <MohammadAG_> Night all
May 10 01:40:26 <DocScrutinizer> since today I pay half price at the public pool
May 10 01:40:39 <DocScrutinizer> night MohammadAG_
May 10 01:40:41 <MohammadAG_> oh the 16800 seconds passed?
May 10 01:40:48 <MohammadAG_> Happy bday DocScrutinizer :)
May 10 01:40:55 <raster> DocScrutinizer: that's proof. you ARE old now :)
May 10 01:41:28 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, your birthday today?
May 10 01:41:32 <DocScrutinizer> no
May 10 01:41:53 <DocScrutinizer> managed to get past that annoyance
May 10 01:42:08 <Termana> yesterday?
May 10 01:42:13 <DocScrutinizer> mm
May 10 01:42:22 <MohammadAG_> the day host mode was announced :P
May 10 01:42:27 <DocScrutinizer> yep
May 10 01:42:37 <Termana> Well, happy birthday for yesterday :P Why do you think it was an annoyance? :P
May 10 01:43:01 <MohammadAG_> birthday are exciting, till you reach 17
May 10 01:43:08 <DocScrutinizer> getting one year older in one day... that's clearly an annoyance
May 10 01:43:19 <MohammadAG_> hehehe
May 10 01:43:22 <Termana> lol
May 10 01:46:23 <DocScrutinizer> ~chaninfo
May 10 01:46:23 <infobot> I'm on 34 channels: #debian/921, #kde/364, #openmoko-cdevel/95, #htc-linux/83, #curseforge/53, ##kierra/20, #elive/19, #debianppc/13, ##guleague/13, #debian-bots/13, ##ducleague/11, #botpark/9, #arl/8, #linuxpakistan/8, #debian-france/6, #webos-internals/5, #dub/4, ##bz-inc/4, ##icf/3, #gsoc/2, #asterisk/2, #oe/2, #casualti/1, #maemo/1, #utah/1, #meego/1, #wowhead/1, #nslu2-linux/1, #uclibc/1, #elinux/1, ##pxe/1, #tomcat/1, #bzflag/0
May 10 01:46:24 <infobot> i've cached 1668 users, 1527 unique users, distributed over 34 channels.
May 10 01:46:59 <DocScrutinizer> good, she's slow. Will reach the 240 chan in 3 hours or so
May 10 01:47:55 <MohammadAG_> oh, right, night :P
May 10 01:48:09 <DocScrutinizer> ~attack MohammadAG_
May 10 01:48:17 * MohammadAG_ dies
May 10 01:49:50 <DocScrutinizer> raster: wondering if I should move to .au ;-)
May 10 01:50:33 <wall[e]> nokia license term for flashing is very confusing
May 10 01:50:46 <wall[e]> also including a ( without a )
May 10 01:51:00 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
May 10 01:51:30 <wall[e]> and a page of string conflicting with previously declared gpl
May 10 01:51:43 * wall[e] click accept and move forward.
May 10 01:52:12 <wall[e]> nobody care reading this even themselves!
May 10 01:53:33 <DocScrutinizer> hack the site and replace it by "Nokia owes you 500$ if you click <accept>" :-P
May 10 01:53:40 <GeneralAntilles> wall[e], how does it conflict with the GPL?
May 10 01:54:00 <wall[e]> GeneralAntilles, no, actually they weren't affect
May 10 01:54:15 <wall[e]> like All right reserved never effect gpl context
May 10 01:54:27 <wall[e]> just confusing
May 10 01:54:34 <wall[e]> for non legal
May 10 01:55:11 <wall[e]> stuffs like, this is GPL, and then following by reverse engineering isn't allowed
May 10 01:55:28 <SpeedEvil> That does not make the license invalid on its face.
May 10 01:55:46 <SpeedEvil> It means they are infringing teh copyright of the GPL by using it in an unauthorised manner
May 10 01:56:11 <SpeedEvil> but having an invalid license doesn't automatically give you any form of license.
May 10 01:56:19 <wall[e]> gpl invalidated the part
May 10 01:56:41 <raster> DocScrutinizer: you can have our great firewall to play with!
May 10 01:56:42 <raster> :)
May 10 01:56:59 <DocScrutinizer> oh nice
May 10 01:59:08 * DocScrutinizer wonders how Australians keep calm on their Gvmt planning to implement little china
May 10 01:59:16 <raster> they don't
May 10 01:59:22 <raster> but the govt doesnt give a crap
May 10 01:59:30 <raster> neither doesw the opposition
May 10 01:59:43 <raster> it puts more power in the hands of the govt
May 10 02:00:01 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, so it's riot time
May 10 02:00:02 <raster> and govt is all about accumulation of power - as that justifies them taking more money
May 10 02:00:17 <raster> australians are not that type
May 10 02:00:22 <raster> instead we just bitch
May 10 02:00:47 <wall[e]> anything not effect blender dev would be nice
May 10 02:00:55 <wall[e]> will they have chinese wall around that?
May 10 02:01:08 <raster> blender dev?
May 10 02:01:19 <wall[e]> a few au are deving blender
May 10 02:01:39 <wall[e]> which is the app i used for living
May 10 02:01:41 <wall[e]> :)
May 10 02:01:48 <wall[e]> use*
May 10 02:01:49 <raster> you need to read up on it
May 10 02:01:56 <raster> its not to do with affec ting blender devs
May 10 02:02:04 <raster> the firewall is so weak - u can bypass it trivially
May 10 02:02:16 <raster> the point is - it's the govt  telling people what they can and cant see
May 10 02:02:21 <raster> and the list of those things is secret
May 10 02:02:29 <DocScrutinizer> ooh nice
May 10 02:02:41 <DocScrutinizer> they copied the German Idiocy
May 10 02:02:41 <wall[e]> only saw riot part, hehe
May 10 02:02:43 <raster> and the govt insists on doing this despite in polls something like 95%$ of people polled don't want the filter
May 10 02:02:49 <raster> err 95%
May 10 02:03:06 <raster> so regardless of what peolpe want - the govt will do it because they are pandering to special interest groups
May 10 02:03:21 <raster> and the senator in charge is a bit of a fundamentalist christian himself
May 10 02:03:38 <raster> its not the govt governing for the people.
May 10 02:03:43 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke fundamentalists
May 10 02:03:47 <raster> thats plain to see
May 10 02:03:59 <raster> it's doign whatever the hell it feels like to keep buddies happy
May 10 02:04:19 <raster> the firewall wont affetc those smart enough to know there is a bypass
May 10 02:04:27 <raster> but it will affect the "unwashed masses"
May 10 02:04:38 <raster> and thats all the govt needs to be able to use it as a tool to "sway the masses"
May 10 02:04:45 <DocScrutinizer> DNS filter?
May 10 02:05:19 <raster> no
May 10 02:05:23 <wall[e]> is tor outlawed?
May 10 02:05:24 <raster> transparent port 80 proxy
May 10 02:05:26 <raster> thats all it is
May 10 02:05:29 <raster> no it isnt
May 10 02:05:30 <raster> thats why i said
May 10 02:05:33 <raster> its trivial to get around
May 10 02:05:49 <raster> its a simple transparent http proxy filter
May 10 02:05:50 <DocScrutinizer> tzzz proxy
May 10 02:05:56 <raster> simply bans specific url's
May 10 02:05:59 <raster> doesnt do anything else
May 10 02:06:02 <DocScrutinizer> idiots
May 10 02:06:21 <wall[e]> we have that here
May 10 02:06:22 <wall[e]> .th
May 10 02:06:57 <wall[e]> that works well for the mass though, nobody bother effort to bypass that
May 10 02:07:09 <raster> yes - idiots. i know
May 10 02:07:18 <raster> it's more the principle of the matter
May 10 02:07:25 <raster> the vast majority of the populatin does not want it
May 10 02:07:26 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 10 02:07:34 <raster> a democracy is about governing for the people
May 10 02:07:42 <raster> but the govt doesnt give a shit - it will do whatever it likes
May 10 02:07:55 <raster> this isnt a "togh measure needed in tough times and of course its unpopular"
May 10 02:08:14 <raster> its a mechanism for control and accretion of power
May 10 02:08:48 <SpeedEvil> The notable feature of accretion disks is the holes at the centre.
May 10 02:08:56 <DocScrutinizer> how iwll they enforce it?
May 10 02:09:42 <DocScrutinizer> I mean, probably 95% of providers also don't like it. probably 100%
May 10 02:09:53 <raster> do by law. all isp's must implement the filter by law, and they must use the govt supplied blacklist
May 10 02:09:58 <raster> yes
May 10 02:10:03 <raster> most isp's dont liek it or want it
May 10 02:10:11 <raster> but they will have to by law implement it
May 10 02:10:23 <DocScrutinizer> just refuse
May 10 02:10:31 <DocScrutinizer> do a bad job
May 10 02:10:36 <DocScrutinizer> it's expensive
May 10 02:10:45 <DocScrutinizer> it often fails X-P
May 10 02:10:58 <Termana> raster, assuming the law even passes through
May 10 02:11:33 <raster> that will end up an expensive way to fight it
May 10 02:11:39 <raster> as they will b e levied with hefty fines
May 10 02:11:47 <DocScrutinizer> I assume Australia got no "Volksbegehren"
May 10 02:12:02 <raster> Termana: it will because the govt wants it and the opposition doesnt oppose it
May 10 02:12:32 <Termana> Theres an election in '11 as well for Australia, I think, so we can just vote someone else that will get rid of it, in.
May 10 02:12:43 <Termana> raster, I thought the opposition opposed?
May 10 02:13:04 <raster> DocScrutinizer: we do, but the govt calls a referendum
May 10 02:13:06 <raster> not the people
May 10 02:13:33 <DocScrutinizer> we here in D got a new party based on opposition against such ideas and laws. Got a considerable amount of votes though was just 6 months old
May 10 02:13:37 <raster> Termana: the opposition won't - they have not opposed the filter - unliek almost everything else the instantly oppose
May 10 02:13:43 <raster> there is n alternative
May 10 02:13:50 <raster> there is no one to vote for who will oppose it
May 10 02:14:25 <Termana> Well, looks like I'll be moving out of Australia. :P Anyone want to go to Sweden, I hear they have great internet speeds and lax laws
May 10 02:14:34 <raster> same
May 10 02:14:57 <wall[e]> just wonder, i love this, but do politics allow on #maemo? coz it's banned from tmo
May 10 02:15:15 <DocScrutinizer> pirate party :-D
May 10 02:15:16 <Termana> tmo and #maemo are separate.
May 10 02:15:17 <raster> i wrote to conroy's office - told him that all he will succeed in doing is braion-draining the nation as those smart enough to realise they are just being shafted and democracy doesn't work, will simply leave
May 10 02:15:20 <wall[e]> :D
May 10 02:15:39 <raster> and people who can leave so easily are the most valuable members of society - they bring in the most money, ideas, business etc. etc.
May 10 02:15:47 <raster> so i'm off
May 10 02:15:54 <raster> au can wallow in its own mess
May 10 02:16:21 <Termana> raster, where are you intending to move? :P
May 10 02:16:36 <raster> yes
May 10 02:16:36 <wall[e]> china!
May 10 02:16:39 <raster> moving
May 10 02:16:43 <raster> looks like .kr
May 10 02:16:56 <raster> at least they have fast internets
May 10 02:16:57 <raster> :)
May 10 02:17:07 <Termana> .kr - isn't that South Korea?
May 10 02:17:14 <raster> yes
May 10 02:17:15 <DocScrutinizer> thought you planned Austria
May 10 02:17:15 <wall[e]> and people are so beautiful
May 10 02:17:26 <raster> DocScrutinizer: life takes me many places
May 10 02:17:27 <raster> :)
May 10 02:17:32 <wall[e]> one nation that people looks best among others
May 10 02:17:35 <Termana> Just be careful the North doesn't bomb you
May 10 02:17:45 * raster shrugs
May 10 02:17:53 <raster> i wont stay there forever
May 10 02:18:09 * SpeedEvil likes Scotland.
May 10 02:18:25 <raster> i'll stay until i finally have the perfect linux phone out and working
May 10 02:18:42 <raster> and well... stay as long as that holds my interest :)
May 10 02:18:52 <wall[e]> how it's perfect if e isn't running on it?
May 10 02:19:02 <Termana> :P
May 10 02:19:20 * raster hums a little tune
May 10 02:19:20 <SpeedEvil> Clearly the perfect linux phone runs slackware/fvwm95.
May 10 02:19:42 <ljp> fvwm95 mobile
May 10 02:19:53 <Termana> heh
May 10 02:20:22 <Termana> you can have that 'perfect' linux phone - all to yourself :P
May 10 02:20:35 <Termana> Though, you could probably do that with the n900
May 10 02:21:00 <SpeedEvil> Does anyone have any numbers as to how slow qemu-x86 would be on n900?
May 10 02:21:40 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.tuug.fi/~toni/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-Windows-NT-4.0-running-on-N900!.html
May 10 02:22:12 <raster> Termana: n900 is mediocre hw at best
May 10 02:23:04 <Termana> raster, I merely meant that you could probably use slackware and fvwm95 on the n900, not that it was the perfect hardware :P
May 10 02:24:14 * DocScrutinizer finds raster staying at .kr for the rest of his life
May 10 02:24:19 <raster> you could
May 10 02:24:20 <raster> but why?
May 10 02:24:37 <Termana> raster,
May 10 02:24:38 <Termana> <SpeedEvil> Clearly the perfect linux phone runs slackware/fvwm95.
May 10 02:24:44 <Termana> It was a joke
May 10 02:24:50 <raster> :)
May 10 02:24:51 <wall[e]> clearly aster has speedevil in his ignore list
May 10 02:24:57 <raster> thus "why" :)
May 10 02:24:58 <wall[e]> raster!
May 10 02:25:09 <raster> no - i dont :)
May 10 02:25:12 <wall[e]> j/k
May 10 02:25:13 <DocScrutinizer> at the time the perfect linux phone is ready for rollout, the goalpost has moved quite a lot
May 10 02:25:16 <raster> i know it was a joke
May 10 02:25:23 <raster> DocScrutinizer: i know.
May 10 02:25:47 <wall[e]> anyphone with resistive touch and run mypaint is a perfect phone
May 10 02:25:48 <raster> DocScrutinizer: tho for me perfect means "fast enough" and frankly - i already have that hw on my desk
May 10 02:25:54 <raster> hw-wise its "good enough"
May 10 02:25:57 <raster> and thats just getting better
May 10 02:26:16 <raster> n900 is sub-par in that dept
May 10 02:26:20 <Termana> raster, if you consider then n900 mediocre hardware, what do you consider good enough hardware currently, that runs Linux the way the n900 does (not Android) (at least out of box)
May 10 02:26:27 <Termana> the n900*
May 10 02:26:38 <Funnyface> what's the problem with the N900 hardware?
May 10 02:26:40 <Funnyface> it's great :P
May 10 02:27:02 <SpeedEvil> raster: What's the problem with the n900 hw?
May 10 02:27:09 <SpeedEvil> raster: I can give niggles.
May 10 02:27:15 <raster> software is the bit i focus on. and for me that means it runs e + efl. x11. is "open" (everyone has different definitions of open and what's acceptable)
May 10 02:27:34 <raster> well 1. resistive ts on n900 - fail.
May 10 02:27:35 <SpeedEvil> raster: more RAM would be nice, and some HW decisions are a bit questionable.
May 10 02:27:55 <SpeedEvil> Why should I care?
May 10 02:27:56 <raster> sorry - resistive is just wrong. it's hopelessly insensitive, can'td do multiple touches.
May 10 02:27:58 <SpeedEvil> It just works?
May 10 02:28:03 <Termana> I don't think there is actually ANY other phone, besides Freerunner and the first Openmoko phone, on the market that run a full normal linux stack out of the box
May 10 02:28:05 <SpeedEvil> I agree on the second.
May 10 02:28:09 <wall[e]> capacitive ts on other without pressure sensitivity - fail
May 10 02:28:15 <Funnyface> raster: it's sensitive enough :P
May 10 02:28:20 <raster> lcd - sub-par. amoled thanks. super amoled.
May 10 02:28:22 <timeless_mbp> raster: how's e's support for multitouch?
May 10 02:28:24 <SpeedEvil> I disagree totally on the first
May 10 02:28:24 <DocScrutinizer> raster: it can do mt
May 10 02:28:41 <raster> Funnyface: use capacitive ts's for a while and you will realise just how bad it is
May 10 02:28:42 <SpeedEvil> The screen is quite good enough for me.
May 10 02:28:49 <wall[e]> some resistive will do multi touch, just not n900's :(
May 10 02:28:49 <raster> timeless_mbp: it's there.
May 10 02:29:03 <SpeedEvil> raster: What aspect of the screen is bad?
May 10 02:29:03 <Termana> And I'm not even sure the Freerunner and 1973 can still be brought, let alone the fact I would consider the hardware subpar to the n900
May 10 02:29:11 <wall[e]> but most cap screen are junk for painting
May 10 02:29:19 <raster> SpeedEvil: iuntil u stick it side by side with a super amoled screen - u dont know what you're missing
May 10 02:29:23 <raster> black is not blacxk
May 10 02:29:24 <wall[e]> unless you want junk in return
May 10 02:29:25 <raster> its grey
May 10 02:29:25 <Funnyface> the display is great, great colours, great resolution :P
May 10 02:29:28 <SpeedEvil> Termana: The neo1973 can be bought. I will sell mine for only ONE BILLION DOLLARS!
May 10 02:29:31 <raster> colours are washed out
May 10 02:29:36 <timeless_mbp> raster: please continue your list past point 1.
May 10 02:29:36 <raster> seriously
May 10 02:29:45 <raster> timeless_mbp:  already on #2
May 10 02:29:53 <raster> cpu is relatively slow
May 10 02:29:54 <Funnyface> I can help you add a second point to your list :P
May 10 02:29:56 <SpeedEvil> raster: Fair enough - the screen is arguable. I disagree on ts.
May 10 02:30:04 <Funnyface> it lacks some hardware buttons on the front panel
May 10 02:30:08 <Termana> SpeedEvil, Good luck ever trying to sell it for that :P
May 10 02:30:15 <raster> these days - the stuff i have in front of me in raw compute is 2x what the n900 manages
May 10 02:30:20 <raster> and its only clocking  in at 800mhz
May 10 02:30:26 <timeless_mbp> ?
May 10 02:30:27 <raster> mostly because the memory subsystem is better
May 10 02:30:28 <SpeedEvil> 2* is not actually that interesting.
May 10 02:30:30 <raster> much better
May 10 02:30:33 <Termana> raster, development boards?
May 10 02:30:42 <raster> gpu-wise it's about 3-4x what the n900 does
May 10 02:30:44 <raster> no
May 10 02:30:45 <SpeedEvil> The harder issue is getting the sw people to do sane stuff.
May 10 02:30:51 <SpeedEvil> raster: and that's apps again.
May 10 02:30:53 <raster> full on device in a case
May 10 02:30:54 <wall[e]> DocScrutinizer, can n900's ts and not strontum ts do mt?
May 10 02:30:57 <raster> prorotype admittedly
May 10 02:31:02 <timeless_mbp> raster: what's the price point?
May 10 02:31:05 <SpeedEvil> raster: Sure - you've got shiny hardware. Needs app-devels to do it.
May 10 02:31:07 <raster> prototype
May 10 02:31:15 <timeless_mbp> last i checked, protos ran somewhere upwards of 6kCUR
May 10 02:31:22 <raster> no price point
May 10 02:31:22 <timeless_mbp> most people aren't willing to shell out 6kCUR
May 10 02:31:39 <wall[e]> but i only see mt useful for musicians
May 10 02:31:43 <timeless_mbp> you're comparing a product which isn't on the market with one that is
May 10 02:31:48 <raster> its the same hw that is in production devices though
May 10 02:31:51 <timeless_mbp> this is fair, how?
May 10 02:31:59 <SpeedEvil> With one that has been for 6 months even
May 10 02:32:01 <raster> timeless_mbp: scroll back and see where the discussion started
May 10 02:32:10 <timeless_mbp> suppose i had a proto on my desk at the office which had better specs
May 10 02:32:15 <Termana> raster, what hardware are we talking? (cpu etc.)
May 10 02:32:20 <timeless_mbp> (i don't have a desk, so.. it's purely hypothetical)
May 10 02:32:23 <SpeedEvil> I note also that there would be a 'drop in' CPU speed improvement for the n900
May 10 02:32:30 <Termana> what SoC rather
May 10 02:32:34 <DocScrutinizer> wall[e]: afaik not
May 10 02:32:36 <SpeedEvil> With the faster grade of SoC
May 10 02:32:44 <SpeedEvil> (drop-in for nokia)
May 10 02:32:54 <wall[e]> i see thanks
May 10 02:32:58 <raster> <raster> DocScrutinizer: tho for me perfect means "fast enough" and frankly - i already have that hw on my desk
May 10 02:32:59 <timeless_mbp> the discussion seemed to start with governments and isps and idiots
May 10 02:33:07 <raster> <raster> hw-wise its "good enough"
May 10 02:33:07 <raster> <raster> and thats just getting better
May 10 02:33:26 <raster> the hw on my desk inside the prototype is the same thats rolling out in announced products already
May 10 02:33:38 <raster> they are shipping soon i think
May 10 02:33:44 <raster> same as galaxy s and wave
May 10 02:34:10 * wall[e] must miss some points
May 10 02:34:17 <raster> DocScrutinizer said i'd be waiting for the perfect phone forever
May 10 02:34:25 <raster> my point is - i have hw that is already good enough
May 10 02:34:27 <raster> and it just gets better
May 10 02:34:35 <raster> n900 is below my expectations
May 10 02:34:37 <Funnyface> what device do you have?
May 10 02:34:49 <raster> (its also horribly bulky - another point iwas going to make)
May 10 02:34:53 <timeless_mbp> he has a product which isn't on the market yet
May 10 02:34:54 <raster> Funnyface:  prototypes
May 10 02:35:02 <Funnyface> well it's an internet tablet :P
May 10 02:35:02 <SpeedEvil> raster: Does your hw have hardware keyb?
May 10 02:35:03 <wall[e]> how about china made phones?
May 10 02:35:04 <wall[e]> those run androids
May 10 02:35:11 <timeless_mbp> and is comparing it with a product which has been available for ~9months
May 10 02:35:17 * wall[e] doesn't like hw kb
May 10 02:35:24 <wall[e]> hard to press, doesn't support my language
May 10 02:35:25 <SpeedEvil> timeless: ~6 surely
May 10 02:35:36 <raster> SpeedEvil: no. and i'm happy enough without it as the screen is sensitive and mt-capable already (and enabled with drivers etc.)
May 10 02:35:38 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: shrug, 6 months is december
May 10 02:35:49 <SpeedEvil> timeless: 7 maybe
May 10 02:35:50 <timeless_mbp> it was available for show in august
May 10 02:35:51 <raster> wall[e]: china phones are all 2g (well almost all)
May 10 02:35:53 <Funnyface> I like HW keyboard, but regardless of whether people like it or not, it's better to have one there than to not have it
May 10 02:35:56 <Funnyface> the N900 has both :P
May 10 02:36:00 <wall[e]> raster, ah I see
May 10 02:36:01 <raster> also tend to be very low-spec otherwise too
May 10 02:36:02 <timeless_mbp> i was able to show it to my sister then
May 10 02:36:05 <SpeedEvil> timeless: I was counting from first orders arriving at users
May 10 02:36:11 <asjWrk> the n900 on screen kb is fairly useless
May 10 02:36:13 <Funnyface> there may be situations where touch only is shit
May 10 02:36:26 <wall[e]> yeh better not have them
May 10 02:36:30 <wall[e]> i use them for playing game
May 10 02:36:31 <raster> anyway - point is. hw is there/. software isn't
May 10 02:36:34 <raster> being worked on
May 10 02:36:35 <Funnyface> for example, try playing any games that are not specifically designed for touch or tilting on a touchscreen
May 10 02:36:37 <Termana> raster, what do you think of Snapdragon SoCs?
May 10 02:36:38 <raster> needs to be open enough
May 10 02:36:44 <SpeedEvil> Funnyface: err - no. If you don't use a hw keyboard - it's lots more robust and smaller
May 10 02:36:44 <wall[e]> since mt doesn't work, hw kb is neccessary
May 10 02:37:15 <raster> Termana: i can't really say. never had one to play with, but what what i read the soc i have here equals the snapdragon or beats it in all departments
May 10 02:37:22 <raster> expecially gpu
May 10 02:37:31 <Funnyface> speed: well what I mean is that sometimes you'll hear iFans saying "hardware keyboard sucks, so my iPhone is better", the N900 has both :p
May 10 02:37:36 <raster> its pushing about 2-3x the speed on the gpu side compred to snapdragon
May 10 02:37:45 <Funnyface> it's better to have a feature that sucks, than to not have it at all :p
May 10 02:37:55 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: anyway, your metric will delay his proto another couple of months :)
May 10 02:38:13 <wall[e]> hw kb is very slow to type
May 10 02:38:15 <wall[e]> i think
May 10 02:38:28 <raster> the n900 hw kbd is nig useless
May 10 02:38:30 <raster> nigh
May 10 02:38:36 <raster> they made it too thin
May 10 02:38:39 <raster> (vertically)
May 10 02:38:46 <wall[e]> only 3 lines
May 10 02:38:47 <timeless_mbp> raster: typically we call that "short"
May 10 02:38:49 <wall[e]> i need 4
May 10 02:38:50 <raster> no space above the top row for fingers to overlap so it makes it hard to type
May 10 02:38:56 <Funnyface> I preferred the 4 line keyboard of my old device indeed
May 10 02:38:57 <timeless_mbp> thin is not generally used for that dimension...
May 10 02:39:09 <raster> the g1 is massively better in that dept
May 10 02:39:15 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: I'm up to 30wpm on it
May 10 02:39:25 <raster> the hw kbd on the n900 could probably be thrown out
May 10 02:39:35 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil, how about your onscreen speed?
May 10 02:39:35 <Funnyface> anyway it was mostly the OS, and the great display, + decent battery time that made me go for the N900
May 10 02:39:37 <raster> but resistive ts limtis the ability to do a good vkbd
May 10 02:39:38 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, w/ pr12, the lack of the fourth row is less of a problem
May 10 02:39:52 <timeless_mbp> and no, i'm not a big fan of the hardware designers for the n900
May 10 02:40:04 <timeless_mbp> we sadly had no control over the design, it was essentially given to us as is
May 10 02:40:10 <raster> n900 is mediocre
May 10 02:40:10 <SpeedEvil> Another 1mm of slide would have made the keyoard a fair bit easier
May 10 02:40:14 <raster> not crap - just mediocre
May 10 02:40:20 <raster> (hw-wise)
May 10 02:40:40 <wall[e]> SpeedEvil, you only type with thumbs?
May 10 02:40:45 <SpeedEvil> It's not mediochre. It's black.
May 10 02:40:48 <SpeedEvil> wall[e]: yes
May 10 02:40:51 <wall[e]> ok, thanks
May 10 02:40:53 <ljp> the whole resistive vs. capacitive debate is subjective
May 10 02:41:05 * SpeedEvil can't wait for inductive screens to show up.
May 10 02:41:14 <SpeedEvil> Or memristive.
May 10 02:41:16 <Funnyface> actually I think it's good that you need to apply a little force to click :P
May 10 02:41:18 <wall[e]> cap doesn't do pressure sensitivity currently, so it sucks, end of question.
May 10 02:41:24 <wall[e]> oh, with stylus.
May 10 02:41:26 <raster> ljp: any debate like that is
May 10 02:41:33 <raster> but what matters is what most people prefer
May 10 02:41:37 <Funnyface> that way you can support the phone lightly with your thumb without clicking :p
May 10 02:41:37 <DocScrutinizer> memristive??
May 10 02:41:41 <raster> and statistically capacitive has the votes
May 10 02:41:56 <ljp> most people have never used a touchscreen
May 10 02:41:57 <raster> i definitely find cap much better
May 10 02:42:05 <raster> \i can reliably drag shit around with no pressure
May 10 02:42:26 <DocScrutinizer> same here
May 10 02:42:30 <raster> ljp:  if you require all peole in the world to be part of a vote then you're never going to get anywhere
May 10 02:42:31 <asjWrk> capacitive depends on how it's been setup, they don't have to be ultra sensitive
May 10 02:42:42 * SpeedEvil does not get tired exerting a force of several grams on a screen.
May 10 02:42:45 <raster> asjWrk:  no they dont
May 10 02:42:49 <raster> but they CAN be
May 10 02:42:54 <raster> and invariably are
May 10 02:43:02 <asjWrk> raster: I have 3 here that aren't
May 10 02:43:04 <raster> and i just throw the thng into my pocket and it stops having the screen touched
May 10 02:43:06 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: the contrary - I really like it
May 10 02:43:08 <raster> and nicely sleeps
May 10 02:43:16 <raster> without getting continual pocket-presses
May 10 02:43:22 <Termana> raster brings up a good point with the dragging - if you've tried to do this this, on some devices, it plain wont work even with pressure
May 10 02:43:35 <Termana> tried to do this*
May 10 02:43:39 <SpeedEvil> Works fine on the n900 for me
May 10 02:43:39 <raster> Termana: well the cap screen i have is good
May 10 02:43:59 <raster> its quite sensitive - handles up to 10 touchpoints, though onyl 3 exposed.
May 10 02:43:59 <SpeedEvil> The whole 'capacitive/resistive' thing is bullshit.
May 10 02:44:08 <raster> SpeedEvil: i disagree
May 10 02:44:09 <Termana> raster, mmm works fine for capacitive AFAIK, but not that great on resistive
May 10 02:44:11 <SpeedEvil> There are bad implementations of both
May 10 02:44:19 * SpeedEvil wants SAW.
May 10 02:44:23 <raster> true
May 10 02:44:31 <raster> but resistive simply cant do things cap can
May 10 02:44:34 <raster> the pocket example
May 10 02:44:43 <wall[e]> cap can't do painting as well?
May 10 02:44:45 <ljp> SpeedEvil: agreed. I have a n900 and ipod touch and the difference is negligable, except for multitouch which is a niche function
May 10 02:44:45 <raster> that alone imho is worth going for cap
May 10 02:44:47 <Funnyfacemob> how accurate is cap btw?
May 10 02:44:50 <asjWrk> or the glove thing for example
May 10 02:44:51 <raster> wall[e]:  of course it can
May 10 02:44:52 <DocScrutinizer> and cap can't do things I like on r-ts
May 10 02:45:07 <wall[e]> raster, pressure sensitive with stylus point?
May 10 02:45:08 <raster> Funnyfacemob: very.
May 10 02:45:34 <raster> Funnyfacemob: holding my finger down i can get it to move by 1-2 pixels with a delicate move ofmy finger
May 10 02:45:38 <raster> and i can control it
May 10 02:45:54 <Termana> raster, isn't it possible that the warmth from your leg is possible to trigger touchscreen reactions? May not be enough through pants though
May 10 02:45:56 <raster> (and thats 480x800 3.5" screen)
May 10 02:45:58 <timeless_mbp> the glove example is fairly important in snowstorms :)
May 10 02:46:05 <Termana> (on capacitive)
May 10 02:46:07 <Funnyfacemob> if I calibrate the screen and pull up the stylus to draw something, it gets pretty much dead on, is capacitive the same?
May 10 02:46:08 <asjWrk> or riding motorcycles
May 10 02:46:27 <DocScrutinizer> raster: but you'll never see the 1..2 pixels you move as the touch is under your fat fingers
May 10 02:46:35 <raster> wall[e]: u can have capacitive styluses, and pressure sensitivity is normally done as area of touch on cap
May 10 02:46:40 <GAN900> Funnyface, no.
May 10 02:46:42 <raster> ie a finger will deform as it presses harder
May 10 02:46:52 <raster> i like the fact i dont have  a stylus to worry about
May 10 02:46:53 <GAN900> Capacitive simply isn't as precise
May 10 02:46:58 <wall[e]> raster, but stylus doesn't give area
May 10 02:47:00 <GAN900> accuracy is the wrong word.
May 10 02:47:09 <wall[e]> only finger do
May 10 02:47:24 <GAN900> Capacitive vs resistive really comes down to personal preferences.
May 10 02:47:28 <wall[e]> and when you use finger it isn't as accurate as stylus
May 10 02:47:30 <raster> DocScrutinizer:  i can tell because i've done measurements.. and i can see by scrolling things too
May 10 02:47:38 <GAN900> Any claim that one tech is better than the other is bullshit
May 10 02:47:42 <raster> wall[e]: u can have a soft stylus that deforms
May 10 02:47:52 <GAN900> It's only true in certain use cases.
May 10 02:47:59 <DocScrutinizer> raster: you missed my point. you always have a covered touchpoint
May 10 02:47:59 <wall[e]> raster, must build one
May 10 02:48:12 <wall[e]> not working out of the box
May 10 02:48:16 <Funnyfacemob> I never need the stylus for any of the maemo apps, however with these debian apps that aren't designed for touch, I sometimes use the stylus. it's better than nothing in those cases :P
May 10 02:48:19 <Termana> One thing nice about capacitive is it forces you to build a touch friendly interface
May 10 02:48:21 <DocScrutinizer> raster: and I hate hat offset crap
May 10 02:48:25 <DocScrutinizer> that
May 10 02:48:28 <raster> DocScrutinizer: in all cases you do.
May 10 02:48:33 <raster> ewith resisitve and capacitive
May 10 02:48:43 <GAN900> What Nokia needs to do is give their customers a goddamn choice
May 10 02:48:55 <raster> if you insist on minimising it - you use a stylus. both types can have styluses
May 10 02:48:56 <DocScrutinizer> no, with r-ts I have a pinpoint touch spot
May 10 02:48:59 <daniel32708> has anyone done a login screen for maemo? or an alternative lock code (maybe letters)?
May 10 02:48:59 <GAN900> Not force one or the other on people who don't want it.
May 10 02:49:05 <raster> but capacitive works better in the absence of one
May 10 02:49:07 <DocScrutinizer> by using stylus, nail, whatever
May 10 02:49:11 <raster> its also more natural
May 10 02:49:19 <GAN900> raster, capacitive is not as precise.
May 10 02:49:39 <raster> GAN900: there i beg to differ - my actual numbers say it is
May 10 02:49:42 <DocScrutinizer> raster: c-ts can not have a stylus, just sausage
May 10 02:49:52 <Termana> GAN900, you have an n900 and a Nexus One - what screen do you prefer personally, the n900 resistive or N1 capacitive?
May 10 02:49:53 <GAN900> raster, and "more natural" is about as subjective a statement as it gets.
May 10 02:50:04 <GAN900> Termana, N900 by leaps and bounds
May 10 02:50:22 <GAN900> I've also used all 3 generations of iPhone and the iPad
May 10 02:50:35 <GAN900> Still greatly prefer the N900's touchscreen
May 10 02:50:37 <raster> GAN900: pointing with a finger vs getign a styulus and writing with it... which one of thses needs to be a learned action?
May 10 02:50:42 <wall[e]> anyway, deform stylus will cover the pixel
May 10 02:50:42 <Funnyfacemob> someone actually bought the iPad? :)
May 10 02:50:48 <GAN900> raster, I don't use a stylus
May 10 02:51:02 <GAN900> raster, so your hypothetical situation reveals bias.
May 10 02:51:03 <raster> and which is done naturally years before you ever manage to learn to use an impliment to point it at things?
May 10 02:51:04 <Termana> Don't you get tired of that swirl to zoom motion? :P Personally I think thats rather bad, multi touch pinch to zoom feels better. But I guess they worked with what they had
May 10 02:51:13 <DocScrutinizer> raster: I can't use my nails on a c-ts
May 10 02:51:16 <GAN900> Termana, double-tap
May 10 02:51:34 <GAN900> Termana, and pinching is just awkward.
May 10 02:51:56 <GAN900> Termana, besides, multitouch is hardly unique to capacitive.
May 10 02:52:00 <DocScrutinizer> raster: and I get a first hit accuracy of 1mm*3mm this way. Can't ever get that on a c-ts
May 10 02:52:03 <daniel32708> has anyone done a login screen for maemo? or an alternative lock code (maybe letters)?
May 10 02:52:24 <raster> DocScrutinizer: good luck with getting that on the bus
May 10 02:52:31 <raster> or walking down the street
May 10 02:52:33 <Termana> GAN900, right, I've seen the "trick" resistive multi touch. I don't thats any good either.
May 10 02:52:33 <DocScrutinizer> no problem
May 10 02:52:36 <Funnyfacemob> well multitouch is a + to capacitive, whether people find it useful or not, its better to have it than to not have it
May 10 02:52:42 <Termana> Not very useful either
May 10 02:52:42 <DocScrutinizer> btw I'm rarely on the bus
May 10 02:52:57 <GAN900> Termana, two-touch isn't what I'm talking about.
May 10 02:52:59 <raster> Funnyfacemob:  mt is requuired if u want a proper vkbd
May 10 02:53:01 <DocScrutinizer> and when I'm I can still touch with my fat(ty) fingers
May 10 02:53:02 <GAN900> Termana, Stantum.
May 10 02:53:15 <Funnyfacemob> I prefer zooming with the +/- hw keys at the side of the phone
May 10 02:53:16 <GAN900> raster, also an interesting claim
May 10 02:53:17 <raster> DocScrutinizer:  u wont get the accurace
May 10 02:53:23 <raster> as you, the phone and finger bump about
May 10 02:53:27 <DocScrutinizer> tzz
May 10 02:53:29 <raster> your accuracy drops massively
May 10 02:53:34 <wall[e]> Funnyface, pressure sensivity with stylus as well
May 10 02:53:39 <wall[e]> which cap screen doesn't have it
May 10 02:53:39 * GAN900 does 60 WPM on the N800's finger keyboard
May 10 02:53:45 <DocScrutinizer> come visit me, so I'll show you
May 10 02:54:02 * GAN900 thinks raster is revealing an awful lot of bias.
May 10 02:54:03 <raster> DocScrutinizer: sit on a sydney bus and show me :)
May 10 02:54:08 <Termana> GAN900, yeah ok, there is actual multi touch for resistive - but we're talking about whats actually implemented, I don't think Stantum has been implemented on a marketed device yet
May 10 02:54:18 <raster> GAN900: when doing a vkbd eventually u will end up pressing 2 keys at once
May 10 02:54:32 <raster> both are depressed (u press 1 key, then the next but havent release the first yet)
May 10 02:54:43 <GAN900> Yes, I'm aware of the concept
May 10 02:54:44 <raster> to handle that proeprly ands not mis-press you need mt.
May 10 02:54:57 <GAN900> Nokia solved this in software
May 10 02:55:16 <asjWrk> raster: I don't think you do
May 10 02:55:18 <GAN900> and not having that doesn't make a un "proper" vkb.
May 10 02:55:32 <raster> GAN900: where? n900
May 10 02:55:33 <raster> ?
May 10 02:55:37 * GAN900 goes back to reading.
May 10 02:55:54 <raster> there is no vkbd there... so no solution
May 10 02:55:57 <DocScrutinizer> I give a shit on vkbd. that's why I got a N900 with r-ts
May 10 02:56:03 <asjWrk> raster: the argument you make relies on two fingers touching the kb at the same time and releasing at the same time
May 10 02:56:08 <onefish> out of curiosity, have any of you that prefer capacitve screens been using pdas for a longer time?
May 10 02:56:13 <raster> and n800/80 (os2008 etc.) definitely had zero solution to anything like that
May 10 02:56:31 <asjWrk> raster: which can never happen, so the question is, can you infer key presses with order by using time?
May 10 02:56:32 <raster> asjWrk: no - i know the solution you are going to propose
May 10 02:56:54 <raster> if the point moves suddenly without a release in ebtween you take previous point and extrapolate to guess where the new point may have been
May 10 02:57:12 <asjWrk> raster: there's no guess, you know
May 10 02:57:14 <raster> highly problematic to do as that point moves a lot based on varying pressure on the 2 points
May 10 02:57:28 <asjWrk> toss all the data at that time it's unstable
May 10 02:58:00 <asjWrk> so you'll see something like Press A----->highly moving press----->Press B
May 10 02:58:20 <raster> your other option is to require data to be stable rpreas and release or not for a minimum time to get the next point
May 10 02:58:41 <raster> and that is generally problematic as its guessing that the ssudden move then stabilisation of point is in fact a new press point
May 10 02:58:58 <raster> to do it properly you need mt
May 10 02:59:04 <DocScrutinizer> yes
May 10 02:59:05 <raster> without making bad guesses/losing data
May 10 02:59:06 <asjWrk> you haven't proven that
May 10 02:59:20 <DocScrutinizer> we have
May 10 02:59:24 <raster> you havent proven the opposite
May 10 02:59:25 <GAN900> raster, Maemo 5 has a vkb
May 10 02:59:46 <acidjazz> any updates to maemo recently?
May 10 02:59:52 <GAN900> it uses the lift point rather than the touch point for key choice.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 10 02:59:57 2010