**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 17 02:59:58 2010 May 17 03:09:06 ruskie: your fcron package is old and has the suid bug, kind sir. May 17 03:12:51 hm. does yahoo use jabber/xmpp? May 17 03:13:53 No. May 17 03:16:03 damn that sucks :0 May 17 03:16:05 :) May 17 03:16:29 i figured by now most of the larger services would have given up on the proprietary im stuff May 17 03:16:30 woah May 17 03:17:00 i remember hearing a while back that yahoo was going to try to swap over but i guess i'm wrong May 17 03:17:59 hm May 17 03:18:11 seems like they are using xmpp but not opening s2s May 17 03:22:26 argh May 17 03:22:32 can i have a app shortcut that prompts for a parameter before running? (i want to allow a changeable url to be passed at runtime to a shell script) May 17 03:29:22 what the hell is sgr_misr? May 17 03:29:31 ^sgx_misr? May 17 03:30:57 it's auto respawning and chewing through cycles like a bitch May 17 03:37:49 Hm. May 17 03:37:56 root can't change profiles through dbus? May 17 03:40:40 Nevermind, ?I am stupid May 17 03:43:16 test May 17 03:43:38 lame May 17 03:43:41 can't talk in the mysql channel May 17 03:50:37 there is an irc plugin for telepathy? May 17 03:50:38 :) May 17 03:50:43 i should try that out but i'm sure it's on dev May 17 03:51:12 there is, and it is May 17 03:51:20 it can't join channels though May 17 03:51:31 it can't join channels? :) haha May 17 03:51:35 wtf? May 17 03:51:40 private chat only May 17 03:51:48 what good is that? :) May 17 03:51:49 well it was when I tried it like 6mo ago May 17 03:51:53 oh May 17 03:51:58 well. i might try it out tomorrow May 17 03:52:08 i'm still getting ioquake and openarena all set up May 17 03:52:25 heh. the controls took me a moment to figure out. i guess it uses the phone as a controller May 17 03:52:48 but it runs rather well for something being on a phone. just need to find someone else with an n900 tomorrow and play against them May 17 03:54:32 i seriously need to just ban all of hinet.net from my server May 17 03:54:41 hinet.net is fail May 17 03:54:48 tds.net is as well May 17 04:24:28 Macer: what's wrong with hinet.net? May 17 04:41:08 has anyone got audio working in easy debian? May 17 04:59:20 anyone in hspa+ territory? May 17 04:59:37 hspa+ is 3.5g right? May 17 05:04:46 + is more like 3.75 May 17 05:05:31 then I;m not sure May 17 05:05:48 are u in 3.5 territory? May 17 05:06:25 often, yes May 17 05:06:45 ...don't think the device lists 3.75 in the indicator May 17 05:07:12 Any one acquainted with maemo packaging? I am trying to understand how to write the correct rules in order to install my app in the correct path. May 17 05:07:36 i know, just wanted to know if hspa+ deployment will improve 3.5 latency May 17 05:07:58 i should just go 4g evo =P May 17 05:10:53 I'm not sur May 17 05:10:57 *sure May 17 05:11:13 away afk May 17 05:11:52 I did find something very interesting about Maemo extras and the long tail. May 17 05:12:10 The tail appears to be *very* fat. May 17 05:12:43 In fact calling it a tail would be silly. May 17 05:13:29 The games section isn't even particularly exponential. A linear curve fits it better. May 17 05:14:48 is it safe to uninstall those preinstalled language package that i don't need on the n900? May 17 05:17:01 pigeon, yep May 17 05:17:02 you can't May 17 05:17:18 it'll try to uninstall base packages May 17 05:17:30 o.O base packages depend on language packs? May 17 05:17:58 yeah... don't ask me why May 17 05:18:09 it should be the other way round O.o May 17 05:18:17 hmm, you're right, it's like a meta package i think... May 17 05:18:44 uninstalling osso-calculator-ui-l10n-svse wants to uninstall osso-calculator, for instance. May 17 05:18:47 [root@n900 /root]% apt-get remove rtcom-messaging-ui-l10n-cscz May 17 05:18:47 (...) May 17 05:18:47 The following packages will be REMOVED: May 17 05:18:47 rtcom-messaging-ui rtcom-messaging-ui-l10n-cscz rtcom-messaging-ui-l10n-mr0 rtcom-notification-ui May 17 05:18:51 see? May 17 05:19:02 if you try to uninstall some random language pack, it uninstall the whole set May 17 05:19:14 yes May 17 05:19:43 dpkg -L osso-calculator shows it has nothing much in it May 17 05:19:56 same for mp-fremantle-002-pr May 17 05:20:02 but that does feel scary. May 17 05:20:48 that probably screws up lots of stuff. May 17 05:20:58 I won't try to see if it does. :) May 17 05:33:14 * RST38h trolls on May 17 05:47:19 dmj726: can you rephrase what you want to say about 'the long tail'? May 17 05:47:27 sure May 17 05:47:41 pupnik: are you familiar with the long tail theory? May 17 05:47:45 no May 17 05:48:05 maybe you can pretend i am a machine translator not familiar with jargon May 17 05:48:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Tail May 17 05:48:47 take a look at the picture in the corner, and see how there are a few popular items and many items with a small audience? May 17 05:49:41 http://blog.appsfire.com/100k-apps-announced-today-only-by-apple-not-a May 17 05:49:58 that's what the iphone app store looked like at 100k apps May 17 05:50:34 Maemo's tail is very fat and stubby May 17 05:51:25 i haven't seen the distribution May 17 05:51:37 pupnik: "Long tail" is a popular rhetorical device used by open source advocates to justify the business model of free software and services May 17 05:51:38 I was just making a couple graphs May 17 05:51:52 pupnik: And no, apparently it does not work. May 17 05:52:54 what explains why things like "24" exist and "Firefly" got cancelled. May 17 05:53:13 sorry that's offtopic territory May 17 05:53:41 Among other things, yes May 17 05:54:41 Although that was most likely due to investors who knew that the long tail was not gonna work =) May 17 05:55:23 I'm not concerned with how it works, more in the distribution of maemo extras being peculiar May 17 05:55:50 http://imagebin.org/97155 May 17 05:56:11 that's the number of downloads of each game ranked by popularity May 17 05:56:37 where are games 12 through 20 though? May 17 05:56:49 ...laziness May 17 05:57:18 so you do not really know what is going on in those spaces? May 17 05:57:30 you can assume that they were downloaded less than number 11 and more than 21 May 17 05:57:42 I know, I just didn't record them May 17 05:57:57 what is on the X axis? May 17 05:58:13 the ranking by number of downloads May 17 05:59:01 there must be an app in rank 13,14,15,16 May 17 05:59:13 i don't understand the holes May 17 05:59:19 http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/games/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=1 May 17 05:59:23 http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/games/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=2 May 17 05:59:28 http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/games/?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=3 May 17 05:59:41 I copied the values by hand into open office. May 17 05:59:47 then I got lazy. May 17 06:00:14 so the holes aren't really meaningful. May 17 06:00:57 well it is kind of interesting to me anyway, thanks May 17 06:01:20 app 15 for instance has 34611 downloads May 17 06:01:52 The distribution between iphone and maemo extras is pretty intense May 17 06:02:19 dmj726, so what, the theory is that people are downloading a lot of one app and not the others? (At least on the Apple chart, Maemo extras looks like it goes steady and then starts crashing down) May 17 06:02:23 though I would expect to see more iphone like distribution if we had that many apps May 17 06:02:51 We do not have that many (200000+) apps May 17 06:03:12 As result, we do not have that many (199000+) fake "apps" May 17 06:03:25 Hence is the distribution May 17 06:03:26 yeah, aside from a few superstar games that get a 20% boost (still pretty small) and a few duds, it's a linear distribution almost. May 17 06:04:20 I'd also think that quality plays a factor here, there are very few "me too!" apps that get little attention. May 17 06:04:25 Remember, no ebooks and websites disguised as "apps", no fart apps, no 1000 varieties of tictactoe May 17 06:05:13 In multimedia there is an exponential curve, but it's still a very fat tail, unlike the iphone's razor thin tail May 17 06:06:14 I think that bodes well for the overall utility of the apps in extras given the limited number of apps May 17 06:06:27 you are swapping cause and effect here May 17 06:06:44 the tail is fat BECAUSE of the apps utility, not the vice versa May 17 06:06:48 I know May 17 06:07:04 For iPhone, it has long stopped to be about the apps May 17 06:07:14 I'm using the distribution as an indicator of the utility May 17 06:07:17 It is about visibility May 17 06:08:00 RST38h, Right, I would argue Apple's App Store encourages people to aim for visibility as well May 17 06:08:13 With their Top Free, Top Paid and Top Grossing sections May 17 06:08:33 * RST38h ==> work May 17 06:08:44 Termana: "encourages" is not the right term May 17 06:08:46 With 200k apps it's hard to get a good app noticed May 17 06:09:01 necessitates May 17 06:09:15 Termana: Imagine a "store" with 10k+ goodies, of which the customers can easily see only 100 (no matter how selected) May 17 06:09:45 Termana: If you are a developer, this is about the worst place where you can present your application May 17 06:10:09 Termana: At the prices of $1..$5 (of which Apple takes 30%), this becomes unsustainable May 17 06:10:20 All of the apps in extras are highly visible to any user looking for apps May 17 06:10:23 Termana: So, how do you make it sustainable? A few possibilities May 17 06:11:03 wow, I think my internet just went for a laggy ride - all of that just came in May 17 06:11:07 Termana: 1) Do not develop apps. Take free content, wrap it into a standard wrapper, upload it to the store as an "app". This way you can saturate the store with your "apps" swaying probability laws in your favor May 17 06:11:13 The reason I don't download game number 63 (vectormine) has nothing to do with me not knowing about it. May 17 06:11:43 Termana: 2) Use the Chinese. A 100 Chinese students will crank "iPhone apps" at a pretty good rate, and you do not have to pay them a lot May 17 06:12:12 Termana: Of course, those will all be crappy me-too apps, but you are not working on development here, you are working on beating the probabilities May 17 06:12:52 Termana: 3) Create wrappers around RSS feeds and websites. Again, one/two standard wrappers will let you crank many, many iPhone apps May 17 06:13:15 And at this receipt to iPhone business profitability, I am heading to work :) May 17 06:13:56 4) Develop one of the very few "must have" apps...the probabilities do not favor this one. May 17 06:14:21 How do you post a program to extras? May 17 06:14:25 or extras devel May 17 06:14:49 LMAO RST38h Vulture's Eye with 37244 downloads ... May 17 06:15:00 and how many testers/voters? May 17 06:15:12 what's so funny about that? May 17 06:15:41 game players must be the lowest form of life on the planet ;) May 17 06:16:22 you mean it couldn't get testers? May 17 06:16:29 yeah May 17 06:16:47 dotblank: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras May 17 06:18:23 I'm always happy to test if I know an app I'm using is in testing May 17 06:41:28 hmm... http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/news/wine-running-on-a-nokia-n900.html May 17 06:41:48 no, wine goes in the user May 17 06:41:58 ;) May 17 06:51:05 that's the worst camera usage I've seen in a while May 17 06:51:15 quite May 17 06:51:16 yes, he even beats my camera May 17 06:51:16 he has a future in UFO filming May 17 07:02:02 wow, latest power kernel borked sound for a bunch of users May 17 07:02:15 luckily i didnt do my updates yet May 17 07:02:16 heh May 17 07:10:19 anyone experience with madde & QT-creator on fedora? May 17 07:10:19 grmbl May 17 07:11:07 biertie: not on Fedora, but what's your problem? May 17 07:11:52 alterego: I get this error when I try to build it: Packaging Error: Command 'dh_make -s -n -p fotozoektocht_0.1' failed. May 17 07:12:04 media player doesn't seem to understand the “discnumber” tag >< May 17 07:12:11 so, I guess it deploys on my laptop, in stead of my n900 May 17 07:12:59 biertie: I think it's because you don't have debian development packages. May 17 07:13:38 so, it is build on my laptop, right? May 17 07:14:48 biertie: not sure, May 17 07:15:08 biertie: if it's been built the binaries should be in the project directory. May 17 07:15:41 But I think madde relies on dpkg-buildpackage for building/packaging. May 17 07:54:19 http://www.flickr.com/photos/handful/sets/72157615126728508/ you guys remember Marcelo Eduardo (maemo)? Check out these pics from the OpenBossa conference (moon over ocean) http://www.flickr.com/photos/handful/sets/72157615126728508/ May 17 07:54:24 oop May 17 08:01:31 that isn't a render? May 17 08:01:48 looks crazy eh May 17 08:01:48 Hello May 17 08:01:58 hi keesjellybeans May 17 08:05:46 damn May 17 08:05:54 I literally walked into a door this morning May 17 08:06:03 big ass ugly bump in my forehead May 17 08:06:03 that sounds like something i do May 17 08:06:29 :D May 17 08:06:40 frals: :P May 17 08:08:38 "Milking cash from the strategically dumbed down ringtone generation" -pycage May 17 08:08:51 I am having a hard time trying to keep up with maemo/meego! May 17 08:09:05 7msg pupnik sorry what was your bank account # again? May 17 08:09:20 keesj: HUH? May 17 08:09:27 there's nothing to keep up w/ ffs May 17 08:10:10 O_o May 17 08:10:39 keesj: mwkn.net May 17 08:11:10 I do real mwkn sometimes May 17 08:11:31 read* May 17 08:11:39 other than that, talk.maemo.org/thankedposts.php May 17 08:12:17 so what's so hard to keep up w/? The absolutely astonighingly massive flood of firmware updates? May 17 08:12:20 that always comes up as a blank page here Stskeeps May 17 08:12:26 mwkn.net was obviously a strategic name grab May 17 08:13:04 Or all those apps waiting to get an update but can't because people updated their SDK which in effect is hampering development rather than furthering it :) May 17 08:13:12 pupnik: WORKSFORME May 17 08:13:14 If they included Maemo's name in the url - they would have been locked out of providing MeeGo news May 17 08:13:16 s/people/developers/ :) May 17 08:13:34 but just using an m - they can change to MeeGo Weekly News May 17 08:13:49 hey hey, impressive hey, hey May 17 08:14:09 I'm smart *honks nose* May 17 08:15:19 For example what happend to the developers devices returns. I did not hear any noice about that. May 17 08:16:32 well you should do what you have in your contract or mail quim and ask if you can keep it, with reasons why you should May 17 08:17:09 from a maemo hacker point of view, is symbian any good? May 17 08:18:44 solrize: that's a weird question... Considering Maemo is a full Linux and symbian is symbian - no, you're not likely to like symbian I suppose. However - if you're fine w/ more of "just works" and less of "DIY", then yeah sure. May 17 08:19:49 from a previous symbian user, symbian is crap May 17 08:21:14 solrize: i've sent patches to symbian May 17 08:21:21 the experience as a hacker there is awful May 17 08:21:35 otoh, i believe some of my patches were accepted May 17 08:21:37 thanks, i was just wondering because there's still a lot of symbian phones May 17 08:21:46 i've also filed bugs against their web team May 17 08:21:53 heh May 17 08:21:54 their web team is friendly May 17 08:21:59 and helpful, and is really trying May 17 08:22:02 maemo isn't a mainstream system (yet - according to nokia) May 17 08:22:08 and if i can dare ask, what about android? May 17 08:22:10 iow, their infrastructure is young and wants to improve May 17 08:22:13 WebOS for N900 would be cool :D http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/16/webos-booted-up-on-a-pc-just-for-kicks/ May 17 08:22:18 i've sent patches to android May 17 08:22:20 no idea about that May 17 08:22:40 i've sent patches to android, but they're bureaucratic May 17 08:22:51 and so my patch wasn't accepted because my employer got in our way May 17 08:23:01 a similar problem actually exists for symbian May 17 08:23:15 w/ symbian, if you work for a symbian entity, you have to validate your account monthly May 17 08:23:23 MohammadAG, I would suggest that Symbian is no longer mainstream. If only for the fact that it no longer holds general mindshare. May 17 08:23:25 maemo/meego do not seem to have this requirement May 17 08:23:38 meego has this incredibly annoying "confirm your attachment is CC" May 17 08:23:56 i've filed a bug about that too (w/in the past 24 hours), we'll see how that goes May 17 08:24:00 … yes, i like testing waters May 17 08:24:11 i've also sent patches to a whole bunch of other random projects :) May 17 08:24:21 (some were upstreams of symbian) May 17 08:24:50 i'd say that android, symbian and meego seem to be relatively similar May 17 08:24:57 they all have a bureaucratic layer May 17 08:24:58 "Android execution environment on Maemo (or any Linux at all, for that matter) is hard - even if you get the Dalvik VM running you've still got a lot of libraries and frameworks that are pretty tightly bound to Android, all the way down to the bare metal (all the UI rendering stuff depends on the Android framebuffer, compositor, and EGL, which in turn depend on Android-only kernel features - not to mention all of the desktop monitoring features that are May 17 08:25:21 they all have some form of module owners May 17 08:25:34 yeah i wondered how android as an OS compared with linux for embedded hw May 17 08:25:35 symbian and meego's owners seem to live in caves May 17 08:25:57 and there's no good way to figure out which hill, mountain, range, or continent has those caves May 17 08:26:14 and i was asking about symbian b/c of the cheap e63's which don't even run the foss version of symbian May 17 08:26:14 i haven't really cared to poke the android people much May 17 08:26:22 my employer prevents significant interaction w/ android May 17 08:26:30 i do occasionally poke friends @google May 17 08:26:33 damn google to hell for that design May 17 08:26:46 timeless_mbp, thats interesting May 17 08:26:56 solrize: so… i can also speak about opensolaris May 17 08:27:07 of the groups …. opensolaris is the most open imo May 17 08:27:17 their module owners appear in public lists and are relatively responsive May 17 08:27:23 ic May 17 08:27:26 they do take patches, both large and small May 17 08:27:34 they too have a bureaucratic layer May 17 08:27:39 but their layer is fairly well documented May 17 08:27:40 but is anyone running it on phone-class hardware? May 17 08:27:43 and isn't unreasonable May 17 08:27:50 solrize: i'm more of a practice guy May 17 08:27:54 timeless_mbp, Are you restricted BY your employer or BECAUSE OF? May 17 08:27:55 i hate hardware issues :) May 17 08:27:57 ic May 17 08:28:04 Termana: BY May 17 08:28:12 anyway, about hardware May 17 08:28:22 sun recently removed support for hardware which was created around 1990 iirc May 17 08:28:27 because it was end of lifed May 17 08:28:47 at a certain point, the cost of engineering doing work on ancient hardware May 17 08:28:52 for a new os which never promised to support it May 17 08:28:54 is expensive May 17 08:29:00 yeah May 17 08:29:02 it hurts the ability of the core team to innovate and clean up code May 17 08:29:07 and it does various other things May 17 08:29:16 you can of course take the deleted code and try to maintain a fork May 17 08:29:20 sun doesn't prevent that May 17 08:29:25 (i can't speak much for oracle) May 17 08:29:37 anyway, the reason i'm mentioning sun/opensolaris now May 17 08:29:43 is to talk about your e63 May 17 08:29:51 basically if the hardware is too old by some metric May 17 08:30:04 then it might really not have the features required in order to get a satisfactory experience May 17 08:30:16 now, you might have your own opinion about what "satisfactory" means May 17 08:30:24 and you might believe that the vendor is interested in vending May 17 08:30:32 (since that's how hardware vendors make money) May 17 08:30:42 but there is always a cost for supporting old stuff May 17 08:30:59 similar problems can be seen when you look at the 770/n800-n810/n900 May 17 08:31:17 albeit on a timeline which is much shorter and less comforting May 17 08:31:46 anyway… if a phone costs 600 EUR May 17 08:31:51 and you buy a new phone every 2 years May 17 08:31:55 then it costs 300 EUR / year May 17 08:32:09 and 100 EUR / trimester May 17 08:32:12 i wouldn't buy a 600 eur phone that often May 17 08:32:12 and 25 EUR / month May 17 08:32:24 how much is your phone plan / month? May 17 08:32:36 my phone bill can easily be > 100 EUR / month May 17 08:32:40 mine? about 7 usd/month May 17 08:32:48 * zash slaps timeless_mbp with a >9 year old 3310 May 17 08:32:48 heck, I don't think I've had a phone bill in the last 4 years that was < 100 EUR / month May 17 08:32:56 ouch May 17 08:33:07 solrize: corporate plan May 17 08:33:14 i thought phone rates in europe were much better than in the us May 17 08:33:18 international calls i bet... they overcharge for those through the nose May 17 08:33:21 i've gone over 3000 EUR in a single month May 17 08:33:30 jaska: roaming is usually my killer actually May 17 08:33:31 ouch... all data? May 17 08:33:37 solrize: typically, yeah May 17 08:33:50 that was roaming through Ukraine and points around May 17 08:34:05 note that i used 2 cell phones w/ a paired billing May 17 08:34:08 mines roughly 20eur/4mo, new phones around 3-4 years apart May 17 08:34:11 so it was more like 2500 EUR + 500 EUR May 17 08:34:15 still seems like a big scam.... a 5gb data plan is about 50 usd/month here, with domestic roaming but not international May 17 08:34:37 solrize: that's... expensive May 17 08:34:37 anyway yeah if you're spending that much on service then a new phone is not expensive May 17 08:34:39 solrize: from my perspective, anyone who claims european plans are good is a naive redneck May 17 08:35:00 the fact is that your plan lets you travel so much further w/o "roaming" May 17 08:35:00 if you stick in one country they can :) May 17 08:35:03 a finnish data plan with unlimited data (but 300kbp-ish connection) is about 10e/mth May 17 08:35:13 i thought the u.s. sucked the most, then europe is better than the us and then asia is better than europe May 17 08:35:14 jaska: a redneck is someone who doesn't leave their backwater county May 17 08:35:19 but no data plan includes data roaming, afaik May 17 08:35:23 european countries are sometimes the size of counties :) May 17 08:35:53 yeah, mines roughly a half-texas :) May 17 08:36:32 but texas is a state.. texas has several counties (or their equivalents, don't know the local terminology) May 17 08:36:32 anyway… an american can also call 350million people w/o hitting "international" calling May 17 08:36:48 also whats hilarious is that teliasonera charges for roaming when going swe->fin or fin->swe May 17 08:36:49 Wolfie: i'm slightly abusing things May 17 08:37:08 Wolfie: you wouldn't be a redneck if you traveled to a bunch of states May 17 08:37:28 but in my view, someone in europe who doesn't leave their country can easily be qualified as a redneck May 17 08:37:30 timeless_mbp: i know what you meant May 17 08:37:35 just poking around May 17 08:37:38 so i kinda have to compare country to county May 17 08:37:40 most us plans are for conus (48 states not including alaska and hawaii) i think May 17 08:37:53 solrize: ok, 320million people instead? :) May 17 08:38:04 nah, nobody lives in those 2 states ;) May 17 08:38:10 i think us population is around 300m ? May 17 08:38:12 that's still a fairly big delta relative to say 30million people in some european country :) May 17 08:38:16 i was just commenting on that... alaska + hawaii hardly adds up to 30mil May 17 08:38:32 although, wikipedia would prove me very quickly wrong, i suspect May 17 08:38:38 Population, United States 307,006,550 - Jul 2009 May 17 08:38:44 from google May 17 08:38:50 i think .fi has cheap data transfer because population density is lower so spectrum is less valuable May 17 08:39:21 also im enough off-center in .fi that theres only 2g for my provider... well, atleast that makes the n900 battery last longer May 17 08:39:23 solrize: fwiw, elisa (one of the two bigger companies) has terrible cell service where i work May 17 08:39:25 and china has cheap voice rates because everybody is poor so they can't scam as much May 17 08:39:33 i believe it's too many subscribers in one building May 17 08:39:50 we actually got a semi official note about it recently May 17 08:39:55 * timeless_mbp was really surprised May 17 08:40:07 yes, residential population density isn't high May 17 08:40:16 i kinda decided to not buy an n900 b/c the hardware is too slow to keep up with the camera from what i can tell... i had wanted to write photo and video apps for it May 17 08:40:18 its all bunched up in a couple cities May 17 08:40:22 but commercial density is apparently a bit too high :) May 17 08:40:54 from memory 3g coverage in finland isn't nationwide May 17 08:41:02 it's centered around the major cities May 17 08:41:06 that's true May 17 08:41:08 back in the 90s i used to get bad service during largeish events in hell-sink-i May 17 08:41:16 EDGE is a bit further than the cities, but that's still not 100% May 17 08:41:24 anyway... May 17 08:41:38 again, the point is that when people say "european plans are great, and cheaper and better" May 17 08:41:43 they're missing things May 17 08:41:54 sure, i can call 5.2million local subscribers May 17 08:42:00 none of whom I'd like to speak to May 17 08:42:03 (haha) May 17 08:42:07 otoh, solrize can call 300million people May 17 08:42:07 lol May 17 08:42:10 same goes for the natives May 17 08:42:29 i think finland has much better home broadband than what we have here May 17 08:42:31 the value proposition is thus significantly different May 17 08:42:37 solrize: depends May 17 08:42:39 iirc cellphone coverage is somewhat spotty in the usa May 17 08:42:45 broadband doesn't tend to go to lake houses May 17 08:42:50 unless you wire it yourself May 17 08:42:52 or something May 17 08:42:59 well here too, coverage isn't everywhere May 17 08:43:10 but even in the cities except for a few places 6mbps is about the best you can get May 17 08:43:17 also broadband is good only in major cities, im stuck with 8Mbit/1Mbit dsl here May 17 08:43:24 solrize: so, there's another misconception May 17 08:43:27 timeless_mbp: pffft May 17 08:43:36 timeless_mbp: there are copperwires even to lake houses May 17 08:43:37 if you get 6mbps to your local akamai May 17 08:43:51 timeless_mbp: you can use *DSL too, I promise... May 17 08:44:04 tybollt: what if i want cable tv? :) May 17 08:44:11 and you get 3mbps to most american companies May 17 08:44:17 because the national routing is better May 17 08:44:31 then compare that to someone here who can get 24mbps to their local PoP May 17 08:44:38 i thought everyone had 100 mbit fiber there May 17 08:44:39 but can't get remotely useful connections anywhere May 17 08:44:39 s/cable/sat/ May 17 08:44:42 duuuh :) May 17 08:44:55 tybollt: but we were talking about broadband May 17 08:45:01 anyone in the US can get sat too :) May 17 08:45:05 oh May 17 08:45:06 IPTV? May 17 08:45:07 ye? May 17 08:45:22 timeless_mbp: tssk tssk - such newfangled thingamajigs... May 17 08:45:25 tybollt: so i can watch YLE? May 17 08:45:32 thanks, but I want SiFi May 17 08:45:40 Jo helveti - YLE ftw! We get YLE in .se ffs :) May 17 08:45:40 tv? whats that anyway May 17 08:45:43 ssh to a box in the US and use hulu.. May 17 08:45:44 :P May 17 08:45:59 sure and break national laws May 17 08:46:01 great plan May 17 08:46:16 anyway... May 17 08:46:30 the point is that just because i have a good connection (in theory) in my apt May 17 08:46:33 doesn't mean it's useful May 17 08:46:44 i actually checked the numbers, i think i'm supposed to have a 12 or 24 connection May 17 08:46:55 but from memory, the numbers i ran yesterday were closer to 6 May 17 08:47:05 for useful service May 17 08:47:09 noisy line? May 17 08:47:24 on ADSL? May 17 08:47:26 nah May 17 08:47:44 * timeless_mbp should have saved the results May 17 08:48:15 jaska: besides May 17 08:48:21 overprovisioning? May 17 08:48:37 if i complain, i'll be told to buy my own replacement cables May 17 08:48:42 and do lots of other random tests May 17 08:48:47 in order to avoid a 30EUR fine May 17 08:48:53 oh, my telco gave me a second copper pair when i whined May 17 08:49:00 and redid my house internal wiring for free May 17 08:49:01 really? May 17 08:49:03 yup May 17 08:49:03 wow May 17 08:49:11 wow May 17 08:49:17 my experience w/ welho has been that they like to threaten to fine me May 17 08:49:17 i didnt expect them to do the internal wiring but i was \o/ May 17 08:49:23 and have no interest in giving useful service May 17 08:49:59 timeless_mbp: thought of switching to something more customer friendly? May 17 08:50:07 isnt welho somekind of cable modem? May 17 08:50:22 i guess welho does a bit of everything nowadays May 17 08:50:37 finally a chinese netbook with trackpoint http://www.liliputing.com/2010/01/malatas-sony-vaio-p-lookalike-at-ces.html May 17 08:50:57 oh, last i used them (1998) it was 10Mbit cable modem with horrible upload (so bad the upstream bandwidth was consumed by acks and limited download speed) May 17 08:50:58 Wolfie: you mean from .fi to .us? only when i think about things May 17 08:51:03 i try not to think too hard May 17 08:51:06 it's frustrating May 17 08:51:22 never heard of a thinkpad pupnik? :) May 17 08:51:27 i have elisa adsl and welho cable tv May 17 08:51:40 elisa is a company thing May 17 08:51:41 solrize: i'll sell you some organs for an x200s May 17 08:51:46 (not my own) May 17 08:51:46 welho is my own personal mistake May 17 08:52:15 doh, i was planning on getting their 200Mbit if i ever end up in hell again May 17 08:52:27 welho isn't good? May 17 08:52:32 timeless_mbp: i meant away from welho May 17 08:52:39 pupnik, you can buy those on forum.thinkpads.com May 17 08:52:53 i might buy an x201s if they become available again May 17 08:52:55 Anyone have experience with Turku Cable - Cable connections? May 17 08:52:58 the x100e is more netbook-like May 17 08:53:01 oww nm, malata wants $588 for that May 17 08:53:06 Wolfie: i haven't seen anything that indicates anyone is really much better May 17 08:53:17 i'd need someone to actually promise me decent service before i'd bother May 17 08:53:24 anybody tried an x100? May 17 08:53:32 timeless_mbp: nebula seems to boast with their customer service. You could always require compensation if they screw you over with false advertisement :) May 17 08:53:48 i wasted a couple hundred EUR to buy a "top of the line" cable box 4 years ago May 17 08:53:54 which has broken down two or three times May 17 08:53:56 haven't really heard much complaints about them, other than their hosted servers seem to drop off the interwebs from time to time May 17 08:54:04 and whose warranty they insist they've expired May 17 08:54:12 in the US, I'd have them on a lemon law violation May 17 08:54:17 the box is a lemon May 17 08:54:29 lemon? May 17 08:54:35 pupnik, i haven't tried one myself but i've heard they are pretty nice to use, main complaint is battery life isn't great May 17 08:54:41 http://www.lemonlawamerica.com/ May 17 08:55:17 pupnik: yeah I have the X60 now and used the X200 in the past - I really want to know what people think of the X100 - I need to upgrade as my X60 is literally comming to pieces... most importantly.. how is the keyboard? May 17 08:55:56 i keep hearing the x100e keyboard is ok even though it looks stupid May 17 08:56:01 it's an apple-like chiclet keyboard May 17 08:56:41 yeah May 17 08:56:43 it looks stupid May 17 09:02:53 This disconnect was brought to you by…. Elisa ADSL May 17 09:03:06 * timeless_mbp1 thanks it for its timely demo May 17 09:03:27 there was no DSL connection according to my WLAN basestation May 17 09:03:42 speak of the devil. May 17 09:03:58 timeless_mbp: you know I always wondered who the hell Elisa is... May 17 09:04:17 must be some popular chick in .fi since everyone's using her Internet connection... May 17 09:06:24 mmm, x60s, x61s down below 400 euro. forget netbooks... May 17 09:06:57 I have a T410i :) May 17 09:07:56 http://computer.shop.ebay.de/Notebooks-Netbooks-/28837/i.html?_nkw=thinkpad+x61s&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282 <<< X60s, X61s down to ~330 euro May 17 09:09:18 still I fancy 16:9 May 17 09:10:07 get the x61s instead of that May 17 09:13:37 timeless_mbp: what's that trick of yours for when the phone (desktop) get's "stuck" in vertical mode? May 17 09:13:45 I remember you had one :) May 17 09:14:08 killall hildon-desktop? May 17 09:14:16 i have an x300 May 17 09:14:17 that does it? May 17 09:14:23 should do it May 17 09:15:04 MohammadAG: in this case I was looking for sommat more elaborate (like, open browser, turn device, open keyboard close browser ... etc) but simplicity FTW :) May 17 09:15:10 i don't think it was me May 17 09:15:21 tybollt: press top button, then lock screen and keys May 17 09:15:25 but yeah, open browser or phone would probably be my trick May 17 09:15:32 then, press top button again and move slider to unlock the phone May 17 09:15:34 worksforme May 17 09:15:35 phone is probably easier in pr1.1.1- May 17 09:16:01 thresh: that did it, thank you May 17 09:16:13 yeah I discovered that one day ago :D May 17 09:16:23 lol May 17 09:16:37 i find ctrl shift x + that command faster :p May 17 09:16:43 yeah, screenlock sometimes works May 17 09:16:46 MohammadAG: as it was - I couldn't get at the shell BECAUSE I was in vert mode ;) May 17 09:16:47 (not always) May 17 09:17:12 tybollt: ctrl-shift-x should work anyway May 17 09:17:14 ah May 17 09:17:18 although i've had states where it wouldn't May 17 09:17:18 * tybollt was not aware May 17 09:17:23 i think it requires hildon desktop or something May 17 09:17:29 which i've either hung or killed or .. May 17 09:17:44 mmmh May 17 09:49:44 ~seen hrw May 17 09:49:47 hrw is currently on #maemo (2d 16h 22m 22s) #oe (2d 16h 22m 22s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 2h 11m 56s, last said: 'n8 khem '. May 17 09:50:04 hrw: hi May 17 09:50:07 ho cityLights May 17 09:50:40 I have been reading mickey's old blog post about the state of open embedded May 17 09:51:39 can you please point me to a paper expliaing the difference between what used to be the development tools to the sharp and to the N900 today? May 17 09:53:16 I mean: what do you use today to build compared to then. May 17 09:54:15 what replaced openembedded? does maemo use a different build mechanism? May 17 09:54:17 cityLights: We've never used Open Embedded May 17 09:54:24 Yes, we use scratchbox May 17 09:54:28 (currently) May 17 09:54:54 right, so what is the difference between open embedded and scratchbox? May 17 09:55:14 Erm, quite a lot I'd imagine, though I've never used OE May 17 09:55:36 hrw must know then May 17 09:55:40 cityLights: what are you actually trying to develop? May 17 09:55:55 An application? Will it be Qt based? May 17 09:56:18 morning May 17 09:56:24 (well, only just) May 17 09:57:08 moaning dneary May 17 09:57:17 hi dneary May 17 09:57:18 alterego, As always May 17 09:57:31 alterego: Can I run maemo on the sharp pda? May 17 09:57:36 cityLights: OE can be used for building maemo4/5 compatible packages. May 17 09:57:57 cityLights: but they will not be fully compatible due to differences in libs and tools May 17 09:57:57 hrw: how is scratchbox diffrent? May 17 09:58:09 cityLights: not really. May 17 09:58:12 cityLights: thats totally other tool which works in other way May 17 09:58:57 as the mer project was close due to meego coming release, will I be able to run meego on the sharp? May 17 09:59:22 well, meego has armv5, so maybe May 17 09:59:26 but there's some leg work to e odne May 17 09:59:46 hrw: please explain what was the change between the openembedded and anstrong and today May 17 10:00:18 how did it all evolved? May 17 10:00:25 cityLights: man... too much to tell May 17 10:00:37 cityLights: angstrom is distribution built with OE May 17 10:01:08 I mean, I am smart enough not to fall to the ads that promise "this NEW product is so much better then the old version" May 17 10:01:28 cityLights: and angstrom replaced openzaurus, opensimpad and few other distros. also supported devices which were handled by familiar May 17 10:01:31 etc May 17 10:01:37 I mean hrw and mickey and a few other ppl - where even smart a few years back May 17 10:02:17 hrw: right, I remeber this May 17 10:04:11 but happens between then and now? May 17 10:04:38 basiclly the N800 and the simpad had an arm cpu - right May 17 10:04:53 so aint it just a matter of hardware? May 17 10:05:25 yes, better hardware, but using the samw linux kernel - right? May 17 10:05:39 are you having a conversation with someone? May 17 10:05:59 I am trying to get hrw to respond May 17 10:06:17 oh, i see. May 17 10:09:03 and I am a bit busy so respond in bursts May 17 10:09:26 sorry hrw. can I ask later? May 17 10:09:29 cityLights: angstrom supports avr32, arm, powerpc, sh, x86, x86-64 and probably even mips May 17 10:09:43 oh man, sharp, i have an sl-5500d that i haven't used in ages May 17 10:09:45 ok May 17 10:09:51 cityLights: between cpu in simpad and the one in n800 lot of things got changed May 17 10:10:02 it has a cf slot so in principle i could put in a 128gb cf card... thing has more storage capacity than any of the nokia mids even after all these years May 17 10:10:22 but few months ago (with gcc 4.4.x) we got strongarm cpu to go for eabi May 17 10:10:40 solrize: keep it in drawer still - this is good use for it May 17 10:10:59 solrize: buy new toys instead of that 128GB card May 17 10:11:08 so, can I run hildon on a simpad? May 17 10:11:10 lol yeah May 17 10:11:18 cityLights: if you build then yes May 17 10:11:26 i'm addicted to flash May 17 10:11:29 cityLights: but do not expect that maemo binaries will work May 17 10:11:32 is hildon open source? May 17 10:11:48 cityLights: you can get maemo4 desktop on any device May 17 10:11:49 i was just thinking of buying a used n800 b/c it has two sdhc slots May 17 10:11:54 and i have a 32gb card May 17 10:12:06 solrize: n810 has nice keyboard May 17 10:12:20 n810 only has a microsdhc slot May 17 10:12:27 hrw: did anyone managed to run maemo4 on any of the old devices? May 17 10:12:28 like n900 May 17 10:12:38 solrize: no, mini-sd(hc) May 17 10:12:46 N800 can take SDHC? May 17 10:12:50 solrize: I would love to have microsd in n810... May 17 10:12:51 tybollt: yes May 17 10:13:01 wow May 17 10:13:02 cityLights: yes May 17 10:13:09 solrize: you mean a mini ;P May 17 10:13:11 hrw i am pretty sure the n810 has microsdhc... you're thinking of the 770 that has that awful mini May 17 10:13:17 then all you need is a GSM/UMTS radio in it to be usable ;) May 17 10:13:19 hrw: get an adapter :P May 17 10:13:20 solrize: 770 had rs-mmc May 17 10:13:28 ok May 17 10:13:36 hrw: so , using scratchbox I can build maemo4 for a simpad? May 17 10:13:36 solrize: 770 = rs-mmc, n800 = sd, n810 = minisd, n900 = microsd May 17 10:13:47 hrw: that's progress! :D May 17 10:13:47 cityLights: I did not said that. May 17 10:13:58 alterego: n910 will get picosd May 17 10:14:01 I still facepalm at Nokia's choice to use RS-MMC in the 770, eh?! May 17 10:14:06 Oooo, sweet! May 17 10:14:07 especially made for nokia May 17 10:14:07 well 810 can use micro w/adapter May 17 10:14:14 hrw: when do we get Blueray? :D May 17 10:14:16 solrize: so does n800 May 17 10:14:29 n800 has two FULL SIZE sdhc slots so you can put in 64gb May 17 10:14:44 alterego: I heard that omap24 based n142400 will get pinkray even May 17 10:15:00 solrize: oh ah! May 17 10:15:05 i guess there is 32gb microsdhc now but it is dog slow and costs a lot May 17 10:15:09 schweet May 17 10:15:14 solrize: I really wonder what for people need such amount of space May 17 10:15:28 Music! :D May 17 10:15:29 if you have knots2 installed you can watch teh blueray on n8x0, n900 May 17 10:15:35 Just buy more cards is what I say .. May 17 10:15:54 swapping cards around is a hassle and microsdhc cards are ridiculously easy to lose May 17 10:15:54 hrw: the storage issue is another story - I also want to discuss May 17 10:16:33 hrw: so what modern OS can I run on a simpad ? only anstrong? May 17 10:16:34 alterego: if you reallly need 64GB just for music then you should consider better media player ;D May 17 10:16:48 cityLights: run angstrom on it - its best solution today for it May 17 10:17:04 hrw: like iPod? :D May 17 10:17:09 * alterego shudders,m May 17 10:17:23 cityLights: other nice solution is to donate simpad for someone who still tries to develop something for it May 17 10:17:30 * alterego wonders what the playtime for the N900 is whilst in flight mode. May 17 10:17:32 alterego: never used ipod May 17 10:17:58 The N900 isn't a particularly good music player tbh. May 17 10:18:03 hrw: I remember you donated some of your pda May 17 10:18:07 Battery life aside, May 17 10:18:08 alterego: it is awful player May 17 10:18:14 your sharp if I remember right May 17 10:18:25 alterego: and music got scratched if system is busy with something May 17 10:18:33 cityLights: sl5500 May 17 10:19:18 yet If anyone knows of a place I can read about the diffrence between open embedded and scratchbox - I will be glad to hear May 17 10:19:31 I'd like to see MeeGo on my T|T2, it's got an Intel in it.. (chuckles) May 17 10:19:48 alterego: and 320x320 screen... May 17 10:19:56 It's portrait. May 17 10:20:01 I mean all then tools finnaly use gcc - right? May 17 10:20:11 320x320 when the slide is up. May 17 10:20:12 cityLights: so does symbian May 17 10:20:34 alterego: t1/t2 have graffiti area always as grafitti area May 17 10:20:40 alterego: t3 got it collapsable May 17 10:21:19 hrw: what would it take to run maemo4 on a simpad? May 17 10:21:33 Maybe I've got a t3 then ... May 17 10:21:51 can't openembedded be used to build maemo4 ? why? May 17 10:21:56 Yeah, it's a T3 :D May 17 10:22:04 cityLights: maemo is closed mostly etc May 17 10:22:08 o May 17 10:22:28 cityLights: pay me €€€€€ and I will work for month to get you maemo4 as much as possible in OE May 17 10:22:55 last question: can android run on a simpad? May 17 10:23:10 is android open sources? May 17 10:23:36 android is evil, so please shush May 17 10:23:38 no it cannot be run on simpad May 17 10:23:44 thnaks May 17 10:24:04 cityLights: throw simpad from 11th floor and watch how it flies May 17 10:24:17 so all in all the diffrence between then and now, is that we now got a closed source OS May 17 10:24:37 hrw, I want to use it as GPS for my dad May 17 10:24:39 cityLights: maemo never was open May 17 10:25:07 * hrw -> off of that talk May 17 10:25:15 right, thanks May 17 10:26:09 cityLights: I do not see a use for simpad or other devices from that era May 17 10:26:22 I disagree May 17 10:26:33 I think it has a bigger screen May 17 10:26:41 which is good for older ppl May 17 10:26:57 and is terrible slow compared to other devices May 17 10:27:00 also some applications dont need much cpu power May 17 10:28:20 ok I am going to eat now May 17 10:28:30 bon appetit May 17 10:28:32 I think I managed to get a good answer May 17 10:29:04 back then all was open and we had diffrent devices to run one open OS. May 17 10:29:39 these days we got several faster propriety devices May 17 10:29:46 today angstrom supports lot of devices with open OS May 17 10:30:11 and some which can use open OS but in not quite usable way (770, n8x0) May 17 10:30:17 which device that came out the last theree years can run anstrong? May 17 10:30:40 anyone got any good post-n900 rumors? May 17 10:30:49 all depends on definition of device May 17 10:31:01 can N800 run anstrong? May 17 10:31:16 solrize: it will use 1366x768px screen and run intel moorestown May 17 10:31:20 yes, it can May 17 10:31:21 I know iphone/google phones can't May 17 10:31:22 lol May 17 10:31:41 cityLights: htc-dream can and many other htc phones May 17 10:31:41 hrw: can the N900 run anstrong? May 17 10:31:50 cityLights: what for? May 17 10:31:51 wow May 17 10:32:19 hrw: did anyone posted a htc current phone running anstrong? May 17 10:33:05 solrize: and 'I want to be a harmattan developer' program will require signind 3 nda and paying 1500€ just to get device which can be used only with 5kg charger connected all-the-time to device May 17 10:33:25 solrize: to prevent devs from using it for non-development May 17 10:34:24 hee May 17 10:34:53 last: this was the link that got me all worked up May 17 10:34:56 http://www.google.co.il/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=8&ved=0CD4QFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fmaemo-community%40maemo.org%2Fmsg01849.html&ei=phvxS_rTM52JONPrvNcH&usg=AFQjCNFAbJj10wn7vcm0Gx0TFLZ6WCvQQQ&sig2=eti6EguP-De0Nvgaa3Z1MA May 17 10:35:16 solrize: cause today many people which got their n900 as development device use it not for development May 17 10:35:25 solrize: and do not write apps etc May 17 10:36:37 Hey all May 17 10:37:10 at least with that 5kg charger no one will leave it in a bar like the iphone ;) May 17 10:37:37 anyone else find their N900 gets a little groggy after the uptime passes around 5 days? May 17 10:37:57 many, PhonicUK May 17 10:38:10 PhonicUK: Does closing all your browsers help? May 17 10:38:18 ive got no apps running :P May 17 10:38:29 cityLights, the Nexus One can run Debian natively, stuff Angstrom! :P May 17 10:38:50 my uptime is 7d 1h 29m May 17 10:38:54 cityLights> hrw: did anyone posted a htc current phone running anstrong? <--- replying to this btw May 17 10:39:18 hmm it seems okay now May 17 10:39:26 i wonder what the uptime record for an N900 is May 17 10:39:37 PhonicUK: mine was prob two+ weeks until I had to restart as the browser got stuck May 17 10:39:49 no idea what was up with it but it just refused to load any pages May 17 10:39:52 weird May 17 10:40:02 did you Ctrl+Backspace to try and close it? May 17 10:40:03 Termana: if device can run debian then it can run also angstrom and bunch of other distros May 17 10:40:17 Termana: and vice-versa May 17 10:40:21 i wanna run android on my N900 May 17 10:40:22 PhonicUK: yeah it worked fine but no page would ever open :) It'd just display the loading indicator forever May 17 10:40:23 that would be fun May 17 10:40:26 weird May 17 10:40:39 had that too May 17 10:40:49 i tried Bos Wars last night, nearly killed my device while loading May 17 10:41:02 andre__, Hi there! May 17 10:41:12 PhonicUK, NITdroid is in the process of getting Android for the n900 to work May 17 10:41:21 andre__, Any chance you might be able to create the Documentation product for me today, please? May 17 10:41:25 i saw someone had done it already, just not released it May 17 10:41:30 I need to get an 8GB MicroSD May 17 10:41:41 I'm working on relaunching the wiki gardeners and I'd like to use Bugzilla to track our TODO list May 17 10:41:49 PhonicUK, well, that depends on your definition of done it May 17 10:41:55 Done it as in it runs - sure May 17 10:42:00 Done it as in everything works - not yet May 17 10:42:02 i just wanna play around with that :P May 17 10:42:19 last I saw the touchscreen and wifi worked May 17 10:42:28 PhonicUK, I think DJ_Steve released his n900 rootfs and kernel in the thread - I might be wrong though May 17 10:42:33 ooh May 17 10:42:39 maybe ill go get that if he has May 17 10:43:19 dneary, I'm on it right now (planning). now that I've finally found the last proposal :) May 17 10:43:42 great May 17 10:43:48 thanks May 17 10:44:52 PhonicUK, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=661119&postcount=296 May 17 10:45:45 aah it stops maemo booting xD May 17 10:45:52 no dual boot, i'll wait for now then ^_^ May 17 10:45:56 ty anyways though May 17 10:50:10 i wanna make a little app May 17 10:50:22 that switches task when you press CTRL+SHIFT+Left/Right arrow May 17 10:50:29 Make a little app that randomly complains about PR1.2 May 17 10:50:35 hmm May 17 10:50:37 ptl, xchat? May 17 10:50:37 Heh May 17 10:50:41 that would be nice May 17 10:50:49 you like the idea of that? May 17 10:50:59 yes, it seems very useful. May 17 10:51:02 awesome May 17 10:51:10 ill get a dev environment set up this evening :) May 17 10:52:32 I'll have to be a daemon of some kind. Do you plan to make an interface for starting/shutting it down or it will be always on since the moment you install it? May 17 10:52:43 s/I'll/It'll/ May 17 10:52:44 ptl meant: It'll have to be a daemon of some kind. Do you plan to make an interface for starting/shutting it down or it will be always on since the moment you install it? May 17 10:52:47 btw - any new rumours about pr1.2? May 17 10:53:02 I guess not May 17 10:53:13 I'd probably make always on initially, maybe a status applet to turn it on/off May 17 10:53:30 PhonicUK: sounds great. May 17 10:53:48 i was thinking while using it last night how nice it would be to have a kind of alt+tab May 17 10:54:02 instead of having to navigate through the menu May 17 10:54:12 or doing ctrl+backspace+click May 17 10:54:35 PhonicUK: something wrong with the dashboard? May 17 10:54:52 not really, its just a little inconvenient May 17 10:55:00 esp for things like switching between browser windows May 17 10:55:16 keyboard shortcut for previous/next window would be nice May 17 10:55:26 the net splat May 17 10:56:33 PhonicUK: how is it inconvenient? May 17 10:56:40 PhonicUK: i'll like that too May 17 10:57:12 In the case of multiple pages, I have to: May 17 10:57:40 Unmaximize the page, Select the task switcher, pick the page i want to view, put it back into full-screen mode May 17 10:57:57 instead, i could do an alt+tab behave-alike and just switch quickly between windows May 17 10:58:14 Well, I use the camera button half-press to dashboard app May 17 10:58:24 also good for anything where you have a full screen app that mostly uses the keyboard May 17 10:58:25 So you just half-press the camera button and it takes you to the dashboard May 17 10:58:38 a keyboard shortcut is still more convenient IMO May 17 10:58:42 I find that suitable enough. May 17 10:58:51 Well, I don't think so, May 17 10:59:00 fine, don't use my app when I make it then :P May 17 10:59:03 PRessing CTRL+SHIFT+Arrow is going to be a big pain in the ass. May 17 10:59:04 those that do think so can May 17 10:59:07 no its not May 17 10:59:15 Where as, pressing the camera button is piss easy. May 17 10:59:25 but doesn't do the same thing :P May 17 10:59:29 So? May 17 10:59:36 I bet it's quicker. May 17 10:59:45 so it wouldn't do what i want it to do...? May 17 11:00:11 Well, your real goal is switching applications, so I argue it would do exactly what you want it to do, and faster :P May 17 11:00:31 Maybe it doesn't do it in the same way as your desktop, but then, your desktop probably doesn't have a touch screen :P May 17 11:00:43 how can multiple screen touches be faster than a single keyboard shortcut? May 17 11:00:50 ctrl+shift can be pressed at the same time with your left thumb May 17 11:00:52 It's a single screen touch. May 17 11:00:58 and a button press May 17 11:01:09 press camera, press application thumb May 17 11:01:13 it seems like a half-way point to what i want to do May 17 11:01:31 PhonicUK: ctrl+shift is one of the dumbest key-mods on n900! May 17 11:01:39 lol May 17 11:01:44 why? May 17 11:02:18 PhonicUK: you press it with one thumb? must be a special thumb though May 17 11:02:19 * PhonicUK waves at pigeon and ptl, back me up here xD May 17 11:02:29 Ctrl and shift are right next to eachother :\ May 17 11:02:39 They're separated by the meta key. May 17 11:02:43 nope there is Fn in between May 17 11:02:46 aah wait May 17 11:02:49 i meant ctrl+fn May 17 11:02:52 not ctrl+shift May 17 11:02:56 Okay, May 17 11:02:58 That's better, May 17 11:02:59 timeless: seen the tab system in fennecfox 1.1? ME WANTEY! when do we get this backported to Microb? May 17 11:03:12 I still think the half-press-camera-button and then press thumb is better. May 17 11:03:26 I think using the camera button or maybe the volume button would be better than ctrl+shift+arrow May 17 11:03:34 you'd have to use both hands for ctrl+shift+arrow, it's awkward May 17 11:03:39 PhonicUK: anything with fn is ok but those standard setup combos with ctrl+shift are nuts May 17 11:03:48 yah thats my bad, I meant Ctrl+Fn+Arrow May 17 11:03:52 alterego: to do .. .what? May 17 11:04:03 tybollt: task switching :) May 17 11:04:16 PhonicUK: fn+arrow doesn't work for finnish layouts. up and down are fn-left and fn-right May 17 11:04:24 which is ass, but can't help it May 17 11:04:43 No reason why I couldn't make such a thing customizable May 17 11:04:44 not realy?! ctrl+bksp is without 2nd modifier... May 17 11:04:59 maybe I could make a generalized hotkey daemon with support for task switching May 17 11:06:34 PhonicUK: but you need to remember to make it as a global version so no std mods for arrows apart of shift+[left,right] May 17 11:06:51 maybe n910 could have ... more keys :) May 17 11:06:54 lol May 17 11:07:05 if they release an N910 within 2010 I'll be so pissed May 17 11:07:30 how bout 4 rows with 15 columns! May 17 11:07:33 is it possible to customize the main launcher menu? May 17 11:07:38 PhonicUK: there will be a N9xx in 2010 but it wont have a resistive screen I guess May 17 11:07:56 I wonder how much it will cost / how much it would cost to trade up May 17 11:08:10 pigeon: dont know about the mymenu thingi May 17 11:08:16 what May 17 11:08:30 they cant do that! no n9xx release for 2-3 years please May 17 11:08:31 :D May 17 11:08:34 is it just me or does the n900 touchscreen require more force than n810? May 17 11:08:55 I don't want there to be an N9xx untill my contract runs out in 2012 May 17 11:09:09 PhonicUK: thats not up to you! May 17 11:09:20 contract? whats that :D May 17 11:09:24 I could always sabotage the project :P May 17 11:09:56 I dunno if I can contact the Nokia engineers from my Nokia Siemens Networks mailbox though :\ May 17 11:09:58 PhonicUK: Appiah the goal is to release the first meego device this fall, isnt it? May 17 11:10:15 they won't make it:P May 17 11:10:23 chem|st No idea, I haven't followed the meego project May 17 11:10:25 they'll drop it and do something with moorestown May 17 11:10:56 * PhonicUK looks at corporate phone book May 17 11:11:01 if the next device is a next generation device, it should be named Na00 May 17 11:11:12 and itll burn if you drop it in water? May 17 11:11:43 lol I can call the meeting room in Nokia House, Espoo if i want xD May 17 11:11:49 I guess it wont be that different from n900/n97 so if the hardware designers are on it it will be out for black friday May 17 11:12:06 what is Black Friday? May 17 11:12:16 all i know is taht stuff is really cheap for 1 day May 17 11:12:31 do all these android/htc customers wear skirts or what? don't they know the powah of two-thumb keyboard? May 17 11:12:32 PhonicUK: Right - there's only the ONE meetingroom in the entire of Espoo. May 17 11:12:44 haw haw :P May 17 11:12:53 thats just the first one i saw in the list of meeting rooms May 17 11:13:00 tybollt: and it's a sauna May 17 11:13:13 PhonicUK: thats the main shopping day in US, called "black" because any company returns to black numbers on their registries May 17 11:13:18 where foreigners are tortured into submission? May 17 11:13:53 Stskeeps: :) May 17 11:14:58 hmmmm May 17 11:15:11 acer delivers more computers in europe than hp... May 17 11:15:57 tybollt: iirc acer got to top3 of computer vendors May 17 11:17:24 does anyone use stellarium on the n900? i wonder why i get this semi transparent rectangle on top of big part of the screen... May 17 11:23:26 pigeon, Have you tried "orrery" ? May 17 11:24:45 * pigeon tries. May 17 11:26:31 cool May 17 11:27:39 pigeon, I've got an improved version that I will upload once pr1.2 is out. May 17 11:28:24 Bigger, prettier fonts, among other things. May 17 11:28:59 Ken-Young: what is orrery? May 17 11:29:19 Ken-Young: so when hell freezes over? ;) May 17 11:29:21 hrw, It's my little "show the night sky" app. May 17 11:29:31 It's like reality, but better! May 17 11:29:31 ah May 17 11:29:37 asj, Yeah, it's looking that way. May 17 11:32:26 i wonder is there headphones with media player control? May 17 11:32:43 play/pause/volume on headphones May 17 11:32:45 rmrfchik: not afaik May 17 11:32:53 sad May 17 11:34:00 rmrfchik bluetooth headsets May 17 11:34:34 tekojo: what's with music quality in bluetooth? never tried it May 17 11:34:47 ah yeah, that works well May 17 11:34:53 Have tried Nokia BH-214 and it was good May 17 11:35:10 the limit to my ears is the earbud May 17 11:35:19 * X-Fade likes his BH-214 too. May 17 11:35:19 there can be drop outs though, battery life with bt playing can take a bit of a hit May 17 11:35:43 tekojo: and there is play/pause? May 17 11:35:52 actually I daily use the older BH-500 model (because it is black and maches the n900) May 17 11:35:58 asj: ah, anyway charge it every day May 17 11:36:05 play pause, volume, backl and foward May 17 11:36:18 hm, can anybody tell me how i can tweak the output of ussd-widget? would love to have it shorter and smaller than "dear very valued customer whom we truly epicly love and still rip off due to out high call rates[...]" May 17 11:36:19 rmrfchik: with pr1.1 I'm guessing it's about 4 hours on bt May 17 11:36:25 rmrfchik: and stop May 17 11:37:03 asj: hmm.. no so good May 17 11:37:04 asj: I can easily do 8 hours of bt audio listening. May 17 11:37:26 And my bt headset battery is empty before my N900. May 17 11:37:27 rmrfchik: ok, 4-8 hours, May 17 11:37:40 mikki-kun, there is python regexp May 17 11:37:48 asj: ;) May 17 11:37:50 to filter the output value May 17 11:38:12 asl? May 17 11:38:54 Arkenoi: hm... as i have no clue and idea of python, would you be willing to assist a lil? May 17 11:39:25 hmm, nokia bh-905 May 17 11:39:37 seems like what I need. BT+wire connection May 17 11:39:48 noise reduction, music control May 17 11:39:52 mmm... sweeeet May 17 11:41:03 mikki-kun, i am not very familliar with python either, but many people on the channel are, so i think if you post something like "i want to cut off everything except second line from word ... to word ..." someone might help May 17 11:41:44 at least it worked for me ;-) May 17 11:42:26 well,first i gotta figure out how to get even read my thai-characters.... May 17 11:51:05 ahhhh, ok, found a way to get the USSD-response as well in english... wuhu, that'll help ^^ May 17 11:59:52 maemo weekly news gets more important May 17 12:00:49 wiehso? May 17 12:01:20 because browsing maemo gets more useless May 17 12:01:25 t.m.o rather May 17 12:01:35 * pupnik looks at the time May 17 12:03:49 is there any way to alleviate the screen tearing you get in portrait mode? May 17 12:03:55 this is with n900 May 17 12:05:09 i guess part of the issue is that well, vsync goes .. vertically May 17 12:05:18 with fast y-axis motion and steep colors portrait mode is pretty much unusable May 17 12:05:48 as far as i know n900 doesn't have vsync May 17 12:14:11 i hope nokia sued the n900 speaker supplier/mfgr May 17 12:14:47 why? May 17 12:14:51 is it that bad? May 17 12:15:11 you want to sue random chinese company in china? May 17 12:15:39 i hope they kicked the guy's ass who didn't implement vsync in maemo5 May 17 12:16:05 you mean for games or media playback? May 17 12:16:07 * Cabletwitch wonders whats wrong with the speakers? May 17 12:16:14 Or do you mean the earpiece one? May 17 12:16:31 no on device speakers are easily damaged May 17 12:16:52 Only if you play crap music at high volumes ;O) May 17 12:17:38 perhaps that was funny but it is not correct May 17 12:18:07 unless you mess with alsamixer to increase volume beyond the limit UI lets you to do i think speakers are quite reliable May 17 12:18:39 I've had things at full volume on the speakers, and they've been fine. Maybe you're unfortunate to have a damaged pair from factory? May 17 12:20:14 andemoni: not vsync? May 17 12:20:17 huh? May 17 12:20:21 only hsync? :) May 17 12:21:01 Better than N'syc May 17 12:21:21 N'sync even. Broke that pun a bit, bah. May 17 12:24:08 your pun is no fun May 17 12:27:53 My jokes bring all the groans to the yard, and they're like, what a retard. Damn right, that jokes just 'tard. I'd teach you, but I'm... out of things to rhyme. Damnit. May 17 12:28:30 you need more (MOAR!) busta rhymes and less 50 cent :) May 17 12:29:07 Eh, I'm about 50%, morelike. May 17 12:29:23 MOAR May 17 12:31:41 * Cabletwitch needs to hire ghostbuters. May 17 12:31:47 Again with the crappy spelling. May 17 12:31:57 * Cabletwitch needs to hire Ghostbusters, this time. May 17 12:32:19 I'm stumped. I honestly cannot find whats causing tracker to spazz out and tell me these bastard files still exist. May 17 12:32:57 They dont exist in any file-management utility, they dont exist outside of the media library. May 17 12:33:19 Yet if I try and delete them, or reset the dam tracker, they kjust reappear. Like filesystem zombies, no less. May 17 12:33:32 Only less moaning (except mine) and eating of brains May 17 12:33:47 ghostbustah rhymes? May 17 12:33:55 o_O May 17 12:35:13 Reminder that the maemo.org "sprint and beyond" meeting will be taking place in #maemo-meeting at 1300 UTC (approximately 25 minutes). May 17 12:36:10 I guess thats to do with Sprint as a carrier, and as such of no use to anyone outside the US ;O) May 17 12:37:38 Man, my spelling today is going downhill. Cold fingers... and I need to eat. May 17 12:38:58 hm, can anybody lend me a hand in getting my Ussd-widget's output a lil more customized? i don't understand how it should be done with the python regexp (the part confuses me the most -.-) May 17 12:42:06 wtf? µtorrent opens app store May 17 12:46:09 REMINDER: maemo.org future meeting in #maemo-meeting in 14 minutes May 17 12:46:32 do tell whom are invited :) May 17 12:47:47 tybollt, Everyone is invited May 17 12:47:49 tybollt, any and all respectable people May 17 12:48:18 tybollt, There was a mailing list discussion, a Talk thread and warning on IRC May 17 12:48:28 lcuk: damn, you had to rule ME out, didn't you? ;-) May 17 12:48:38 ;) May 17 12:49:09 uhm, *confused* is this meeting for open or just for certain people? May 17 12:49:19 dneary: fair enough - is lurking ok or are attendants expected to be active? May 17 12:49:58 (guess I'll find out) May 17 12:50:13 tybollt, Lurk if you'd like May 17 12:57:43 Hi ! May 17 12:58:04 hi Khertan i see you are on the #maemo-meeting May 17 13:00:19 * MohammadAG lurks May 17 13:01:20 So, whats actually happening in the meeting? May 17 13:01:22 so uhm, before i do something "stupid"... is #maemo-meeting open for everyone who wants to join? May 17 13:01:28 yes May 17 13:01:31 right lcuk ... i'm also on maemo-meeting :) May 17 13:01:45 morning May 17 13:01:56 well, if it's in your reach, then you can't be stupid to join :) May 17 13:02:20 closed forum discussions need to be really closed.. also in technical manner May 17 13:02:40 lcuk: maybe nothing to talk about ... but hum ... it s a meeting :) May 17 13:02:44 * tybollt signs surfa's NDA May 17 13:02:56 tybollt, which one this time? :) May 17 13:03:31 ~ping May 17 13:03:32 ~pong May 17 13:03:53 cool, switched to offline mode and i wasn't disconnected May 17 13:05:58 i think i'll join then in a short while :) gotta first get something thougj May 17 13:08:39 Hey there,on my N900 I want to stop the daemon putting the wifi up so I can put my wireless card in monitor mode May 17 13:09:20 I think wifi-switcher package is doing that but dont access to the source May 17 13:09:20 ifdown wlan0, shouldn't that be enough? May 17 13:10:28 MohammadAG: salaam, I am trying :) May 17 13:10:57 inshallah May 17 13:11:13 lol tybollt May 17 13:11:36 kifalek tybollt ? :) May 17 13:11:58 :) May 17 13:12:06 english, 574 users who understand only that here :) May 17 13:12:23 we don't want to piss off the bot do we May 17 13:12:28 ~botsnack May 17 13:12:28 MohammadAG: aw, gee May 17 13:13:12 MohammadAG: of course, I dont even think about that, just one word sorry May 17 13:13:32 lol no worries :p May 17 13:15:28 MohammadAG shalom =) May 17 13:15:37 MohammadAG: do you know which daemon is maintaining the wifi up ? May 17 13:15:42 ZogG, poka May 17 13:15:49 haha =) May 17 13:16:00 massoud, no idea, but again ifdown should bring it down May 17 13:16:24 massoud, isn't it net.DEVICE_NAME ? May 17 13:17:38 ZogG: net.DEVICE_NAME ? May 17 13:17:40 ZogG, oops, it was priviet :P May 17 13:17:56 supposed to be* May 17 13:17:58 bah w/e May 17 13:18:16 massoud /etc/init.d/net.eth0 for example May 17 13:18:57 /etc/init.d/net.eth0 restart — would restart Lan connection May 17 13:19:11 in gentoo anyway =) May 17 13:19:22 but i think it's most distros May 17 13:19:40 * ZogG have to try other distros May 17 13:19:50 Like windows May 17 13:19:51 ZogG: there is no such script in the debian for n900 May 17 13:20:04 but ifdown seems to do the work May 17 13:20:33 MohammadAG i want plan9 and haiku May 17 13:20:50 uhuh May 17 13:20:58 ZogG: indeed - I'm going to install Gentoo on my N900 tonight May 17 13:21:15 I mean portage on N900 FTW May 17 13:21:53 tybollt, sounds like you already ported it lol May 17 13:21:56 tybollt: debian works well and gentoo needs to "emerge" each package May 17 13:22:01 tybollt are you srs? May 17 13:22:08 I want a minimal system with only a shell May 17 13:22:22 like ubuntu-server, without the server packages May 17 13:22:27 so packaged-based distro fits better the embedded devices May 17 13:22:27 massoud, there is /etc/init.d/networking and wlancond and other stuff - some of them are those you need May 17 13:22:28 no folks May 17 13:22:35 mainly for backup and de-f'ing up the system May 17 13:22:45 I'm not serious May 17 13:22:49 massoud, i think source one is better May 17 13:23:08 ZogG: well for embedded ? May 17 13:23:12 yeah May 17 13:23:19 how do you make your package on the device ? May 17 13:23:43 not so easily May 17 13:23:43 massoud, first of all gentoo supports rpm and others May 17 13:23:47 and also you can compile May 17 13:24:00 what's the smallest OS? May 17 13:24:10 wanted to try DSL on the N900 May 17 13:24:16 googleos /troll_mode May 17 13:24:17 no idea how to actually install it May 17 13:24:51 MohammadAG, LFS is the smallest actually May 17 13:25:00 as you have exactly what you want May 17 13:25:16 including coreutils? May 17 13:25:28 don't want busybox May 17 13:25:51 * SpeedEvil remembers X+linux+networking+browser on a 1.44 floppy. May 17 13:26:11 Ok, the browser was lynx - and I had to rip out code to do printing - but still. May 17 13:26:43 btw May 17 13:26:50 is the n900 capable of bluetooth printing easily? May 17 13:26:50 fml May 17 13:27:03 ptl the was brainstorm about it May 17 13:27:06 i don't think so May 17 13:27:20 even if you install cups on easy debian? May 17 13:27:29 maybe May 17 13:27:48 maybe you can manage it - but it's not called easy May 17 13:27:48 i think it already works using easy debian May 17 13:28:43 MohammadAG: you using easy-debian lots? May 17 13:28:51 MohammadAG, isthe maemo meeting is closed? May 17 13:28:59 no May 17 13:29:00 they are talking about terrible things =) May 17 13:29:04 tybollt, not a lot May 17 13:29:06 ZogG: no, /join #maemo-meeting May 17 13:29:14 i'm there May 17 13:29:16 ZogG, no, lurk all you want May 17 13:29:28 i'm logging it May 17 13:29:33 they could've set +i May 17 13:29:36 actually my client autologging everything May 17 13:29:44 MohammadAG: is OOo and Gimp actually usable (granted the screen realestate)? May 17 13:29:48 they need minutes May 17 13:30:04 tybollt, i used gimp to add an alpha channel to an icon May 17 13:30:15 took about 3 minutes from start to finish May 17 13:30:22 so yeah, it's usable May 17 13:30:38 MohammadAG what do you mean minutes? May 17 13:30:47 masaki, welcome back May 17 13:30:56 ZogG, apparently it means summaries May 17 13:30:59 MohammadAG: sweet May 17 13:31:02 my client logs to the millisecond May 17 13:31:56 MohammadAG ьшту ещ ыусщтвы May 17 13:32:03 ooops May 17 13:32:06 uhuh May 17 13:32:10 lol May 17 13:32:12 mine to seconds, but you can configurate it May 17 13:32:13 oi May 17 13:32:23 just too many chans are open =( May 17 13:32:29 tybollt, he forgot to switch layouts May 17 13:32:35 tybollt je ne parle fraince May 17 13:32:35 i'm sure that's gibberish May 17 13:32:40 but in russian May 17 13:32:42 MohammadAG it is =) May 17 13:32:51 shtu esch yusschtvy May 17 13:32:53 :P May 17 13:33:00 ZogG: Non, sacre bleu! May 17 13:33:05 according to translate.google.com May 17 13:33:09 lol May 17 13:34:07 in russian it's "chuju glasnost pizda na z'darovje" May 17 13:35:35 Anyone considered trying to get Maemo on the iPad yet? Same CPU, from what I can make out :O) May 17 13:35:55 isn't it an A4? May 17 13:36:05 ehr? May 17 13:36:12 Cabletwitch: ipad isn't exactly hackable to run other os'es afaik May 17 13:36:16 the A4 is an A8 May 17 13:36:18 ipad's got a next gen Arm 8 cortex May 17 13:36:47 Uses the same v7-A architecture, so essentially it should be almost identical. May 17 13:36:53 if you could jailbreak and get qemu on there - praps May 17 13:37:27 Mind you, less functionality on the iPad, so why bother XD May 17 13:38:11 i wonder how bme would handle charging May 17 13:38:15 without a usb port May 17 13:38:16 xD May 17 13:38:28 That could be interesting, to say the least. May 17 13:38:32 it's be cool to have inductive charging for N900 yes May 17 13:38:39 "The One-Shot Maemo iPad" May 17 13:38:39 MohammadAG: it would crash and reboot your device until the dawn of time May 17 13:38:45 ZogG, any idea where i could get any BH-214s May 17 13:39:03 tybollt: Isnt there a company that does back covers for phones that includes that feature? May 17 13:39:11 javispedro, nice, i've always wanted an iApocalypse May 17 13:39:13 Cabletwitch: a shitload of devices use the Cortex-A8, that does not mean they use the "same CPU" May 17 13:39:26 Javis: Ahh, wishfull thinking then. May 17 13:39:33 Cabletwitch: see Beagleboard. It has nearly 100% the same configuration. May 17 13:39:37 Although I do wonder what the differences are, exactly. May 17 13:39:49 Cabletwitch: basically, _everything_ save for the instruction set. May 17 13:39:58 MohammadAG, tried zap? May 17 13:40:05 .co.il? yeah May 17 13:40:07 Which would be how hard to work around, exactly? May 17 13:40:14 MohammadAG, ebay? May 17 13:40:22 not going that far lol May 17 13:40:29 i wanted a local shop May 17 13:40:37 cba with shipping time May 17 13:40:55 ordered a F-F usb adapter on 2/5, and it's still not here May 17 13:41:34 MohammadAG: one that'll allow for OTG? May 17 13:42:46 MohammadAG what about BH-214 May 17 13:42:51 is it that different? May 17 13:43:12 javispedro: er, if they have a Cortex-A8 then that *is* the same CPU, yes.. not the same SoC, no.. :) May 17 13:43:14 Ahh, the A4 has a slightly different GPU too May 17 13:43:24 heya javispedro May 17 13:43:44 The resulting core, codenamed "Hummingbird", was able to run at far higher clock rates than other implementations while remaining fully compatible with the Cortex-A8 design provided by ARM.[10] Other performance improvements include additional L2 cache and a doubling of the RAM bus width. May 17 13:43:45 Torne: it's not the same CPU. Apple has modified it. Most vendors edit it to suit its need. May 17 13:43:54 Torne: ARM sells designs May 17 13:43:56 If its fully compatible... then? May 17 13:44:11 javispedro: i think you are overestimating the degree to which people make modifications ot the macrocell May 17 13:44:28 All Cortex-A8s out there are compatible.. May 17 13:44:42 Torne: no -- you're overestimating the degree of modifications between what people usually consider different x86 processors :) May 17 13:44:44 compatible with what? and on which level? May 17 13:44:54 javispedro: i'm an embedded ARM kernel developer May 17 13:45:06 tybollt, host mode May 17 13:45:17 and I'm javispedro, thank you. hello RST38h, btw. May 17 13:45:27 Torne: so you are looking ath the programming interface? and it is the same, right? May 17 13:45:29 javispedro: srsly, the macrocells are all functionally the same, except for actual cache config and other boring stuff May 17 13:45:36 ZogG, I'm not the most patient guy in here May 17 13:45:49 RST38h: The CPU itself, yes, it will be identical except for trivial parameterisable stuff like cache size and geometry May 17 13:46:05 MohammadAG, what? May 17 13:46:07 but all the peripherals are going to be different May 17 13:46:27 google showed me cache from yad2 about BH-214 May 17 13:46:45 Torne: So, you do not get to deal with thermal dissipation, currents, and other such stuff? May 17 13:46:56 memory interfaces? May 17 13:47:05 memory types and timing configuration? May 17 13:47:12 RST38h: memory interfaces are not part of the CPU on ARM May 17 13:47:27 Torne: No wonder all those A8s look the same to you... May 17 13:47:40 The CPU is a specific macrocell.. May 17 13:47:47 the entire chip is a SoC made of dozens of cells May 17 13:48:20 ZogG, don't want to wait for the crappy shipping times to israel May 17 13:48:31 bought a desktop charger and it took a month and 3 days May 17 13:48:45 RST38h: fabrication details like heat/current/etc are not relevant to software, so that doesn't make it a different CPU from a porter's POV May 17 13:48:48 MohammadAG it takes about 1-2 weeks for me from US May 17 13:49:08 Torne: makes it way different if you are designign a SoC though May 17 13:49:21 Torne: it also makes it a different chip, even if it's ISA compatible. May 17 13:49:26 RST38h: but that wasn't the subject May 17 13:49:35 javispedro: it's a different *chip*, sure. it's the same CPU. May 17 13:49:36 mmm, maybe May 17 13:49:37 we just got to post #5555 on the stupidest tmo threafd May 17 13:49:39 *thread May 17 13:49:55 ptl: You mean, at post #555, it is still the stupidest? May 17 13:49:58 5555 I mean May 17 13:50:06 No worthy contenders? May 17 13:50:11 A4 is magical May 17 13:50:13 MohammadAG: wasn't there a software update needed too? :S May 17 13:50:14 Cortex-A8 is not May 17 13:50:18 major difference there May 17 13:50:26 see above: cpu is hte macrocell with MPU/L1 cache/AMBA buses/NEON unit May 17 13:50:31 everything else on the chip is not the CPU May 17 13:50:37 that's the usual breakdown for ARM May 17 13:50:45 RST38h: the fact that it got to post 5555 proves it's the stupidest :P May 17 13:50:54 a threadnaught May 17 13:50:54 * RST38h also remembers reading that the macrocell in A8 is tweakable for each manufacturer, individually May 17 13:50:54 Torne: so VFP is not on the CPU? :) May 17 13:51:10 and yes, VFP is currently in the CPU May 17 13:51:19 RST38h: yes, but none of those changes are software-visible apart from gross things like NEON register count May 17 13:51:26 also, i'm sure it will be a _similar_ design at whatever level you're working on. It will be a completely different physical CPU. May 17 13:51:26 which are the same on every A8 shipped so far May 17 13:51:48 javispedro: the VFP is uninteresting on A8, it's retarded and broken :) May 17 13:51:56 tybollt, for what? May 17 13:52:06 it's in the cell, yes, i just didn't mention it because it's boring :) May 17 13:52:11 Torne: there's A8s out there with the non-mini version afaiu May 17 13:52:14 ZogG, i want it in less than a week lol May 17 13:52:23 javispedro: not that I am aware of, and I'm reasonably sure I know them all :) May 17 13:52:37 javispedro: As far as I understand ARM have not even *written* a non-lite version of vfpv3 May 17 13:52:44 i.e. the silicon IP is nonexistant May 17 13:53:13 MohammadAG you have 2 options, or get it in month or not to get it at all May 17 13:53:24 likewise, the vfpv3 arch spec allows for subarchitectures other than the null subarch, but those other optoins don't exist afaik May 17 13:53:32 they are just theoretical possibilities from the spec. May 17 13:55:04 would i be killed to say something on maemo-meeting =) May 17 13:55:20 javispedro: but anyway. it was a software questoin, i'm a software guy, i define CPU in that context as the useful definition from a software POV: code compatibility. and so far all A8s that exist in products or that I am aware of in development are 100% code compatible with each other May 17 13:55:41 dneary, you can always see people complaining at talks.maemo.org =) May 17 13:55:43 the rest is just peripherals :) May 17 13:57:12 ZogG, I didn't say I want to hear people complaining May 17 13:57:21 I said I want to hear people asking for stuff to be done May 17 13:57:22 that is right May 17 13:57:34 but there are a lot of ideas in there too May 17 13:57:58 Torne: they share the same ISA, so of course. May 17 13:58:06 i'm tired myself of people complaining, cause you can't really filter it for good ideas May 17 13:58:09 javispedro: er, not of course.. May 17 13:58:24 javispedro: ARMv7 has loads of optional bits May 17 13:58:35 it's perfectly possible for different ARMv7-A procs to be incompatible.. May 17 13:58:45 but so far the A8s are all the same wrt. which options they have May 17 13:59:32 some of the A9s are different, though.. May 17 14:00:19 I don't think we're using the same definition of ISA, but it doesn't matter, as I get the point. May 17 14:00:25 (some of the A9MPs aren't even symmetric :) May 17 14:13:36 so is the store working with N900 or are there just 0 apps for it? May 17 14:13:50 is there any current way to tether your laptop to the N900's 3G connection? May 17 14:14:20 jcrawford: os? May 17 14:14:32 and uhm yes there is May 17 14:14:42 jcrawford: get joikuspot for n900 May 17 14:14:46 tybollt, what do you mean? The OS on my computer or the N900? May 17 14:15:00 oh nice i have that for my E72 was not sure it was out for the N900 :) May 17 14:15:28 jcrawford: whatever - install joikuspot on N900 and then ad-hoc via wifi your laptop and n900 May 17 14:15:32 I use more standard apps for my n900 than mobile apps May 17 14:16:39 jcrawford: Japp, kr p joikuspot - finns en beta fr linux/n900 May 17 14:17:32 tybollt say what? May 17 14:18:04 was it Finnish or Swedish ? May 17 14:18:09 looks like swedish.. "yes, goes by(?) joikuspot - there is a beta for linux/n900" May 17 14:18:31 nice thanks May 17 14:18:38 (my swedish is a "bit" rusty) May 17 14:18:42 still waiting for my N900 to arrive but cannot wait for it to get here :) May 17 14:18:43 tybollt, can you send me some swedish girls, i'm paing for shipping May 17 14:18:47 are there a lot of apps out there? May 17 14:19:14 i have not looked into the N900 much yet but heard there were a lot of issues surrounding the ovi store May 17 14:19:17 not the iPhone definition of a "lot" May 17 14:20:13 jcrawford: =) May 17 14:20:30 jcrawford: no, basically there's not a lot of apps. May 17 14:20:42 :( May 17 14:20:48 are you guys happy with your devices or no? May 17 14:20:55 jcrawford: Absolutely! May 17 14:21:03 I have a palm pre and E72 now, the N900 will replace the E72 May 17 14:21:12 Well - absolutely may be strong. May 17 14:21:14 love the Pre's OS but hate the hardware it's real shitty May 17 14:21:16 jcrawford: mainly because "apps" is typically webpages that can't be browsed on other devices HOWEVER on your N900 you can view 99% of all webpages just fine right in your device. May 17 14:21:23 I do wish that they had included more than one stylys May 17 14:21:37 ut oh SpeedEvil lost his lol May 17 14:21:39 jcrawford: you don't need many applications if you get the right applications ;) May 17 14:21:44 I don't use the stylus at all. It's not very tempting anyway May 17 14:21:47 rcg-work, very true May 17 14:21:53 can you root the N900 through SSH? May 17 14:21:59 no May 17 14:22:01 you get root May 17 14:22:09 that's what i meant :) May 17 14:22:18 are you really suggesting the n900 as alternative for e72? May 17 14:22:22 You can connect over ssh and login as route - yes. May 17 14:22:26 root May 17 14:22:27 javispedro, nope it's a replacement May 17 14:22:35 cool May 17 14:22:38 jcrawford: One BIG CAVEAT May 17 14:22:45 ... May 17 14:23:04 jcrawford: REALLY ensure ANY feature you need on the e72 is present on the n900 May 17 14:23:06 jcrawford: if you use any of ovi.com, ovi suite or MMS you will be unpleasantly surprised by your N900 May 17 14:23:16 lol May 17 14:23:35 javispedro, i don't use the E72 at all cept for joiku and about 5 mins/month in calls May 17 14:24:00 no calendar, no nothing, then n900 is fine unless you also have weird contact book demands May 17 14:24:06 tybollt, MMS has issues? So you cannot IM photos etc? May 17 14:24:13 MMS is third party. May 17 14:24:17 ah May 17 14:24:19 * SpeedEvil high-fives frals. May 17 14:24:23 jcrawford: actually MMS is getting there - not thanks to Nokia though. May 17 14:24:24 ok scrum time, be back after the meeting :) May 17 14:24:31 tybollt, lol May 17 14:24:32 * tybollt high-fives frals May 17 14:24:39 sshhhhh don't flame Nokia :) May 17 14:24:43 bbiab May 17 14:24:51 we're not flaming nokia May 17 14:24:59 we're issuing constructive criticism May 17 14:25:01 It's like host-mode. May 17 14:25:03 lol :D May 17 14:25:05 * tybollt HACEDESK May 17 14:25:09 It's not working - the hardware is capable. May 17 14:25:09 s/H/F/ May 17 14:25:13 ok bbiaf :) May 17 14:25:22 SpeedEvil: that is ... irritating :-| May 17 14:26:01 yes May 17 14:26:13 tybollt: Did you see javispedro's awesome demo last night? May 17 14:26:28 so will all the fuzz as of late spawn interest in Nokla? May 17 14:26:41 SpeedEvil: I did not :( url? May 17 14:26:52 n900 driving a displaylink monitor -- http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/usb/x11vnc2dlusb.jpg May 17 14:26:58 http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/usb/xvnc2dlusb.jpg May 17 14:27:02 yeah - that May 17 14:27:03 :) May 17 14:27:20 viva le kludge :D May 17 14:27:23 hey May 17 14:27:28 I have one of those! May 17 14:27:37 the male A-A bit :) May 17 14:27:38 jaska: and it requires another PC to work! May 17 14:27:43 what's 'displaylink monitor'? May 17 14:27:46 tybollt: it's female femae May 17 14:27:59 javispedro: ehr yeah that's what I meant May 17 14:28:01 female female May 17 14:28:05 hot May 17 14:28:11 meh May 17 14:28:16 someone have successfully use mad-developer on n900 and usb networking with this stupid OS nammed Windows ? May 17 14:28:23 supertramp: www.displaylink.com May 17 14:28:26 it is something like running x11 over ip over usb? ;-) May 17 14:28:52 no, it's like vnc over raw usb May 17 14:28:53 or s/x11/vnc/ May 17 14:28:56 ah May 17 14:28:58 javispedro: Looking at this I'm amazed it's working... it ought to be inssuficient powere or is there a HUB somewhere in that chain? May 17 14:28:58 A displaylink USB adaptor plugs into a normal monitor and acts like a USB display card May 17 14:29:07 tybollt: monitor is plugged to AC May 17 14:29:21 Also - there is 200mA of boost power available. May 17 14:29:22 does it provide major advantage over x11 or vnc over ip? May 17 14:29:22 ah the monitor has a powere hub builtin May 17 14:29:25 fair enough May 17 14:29:26 Which is enough for many items May 17 14:29:33 Neglecting the above May 17 14:29:45 ah, so it is hardware thingie? May 17 14:29:46 nice May 17 14:29:47 SpeedEvil: btw I noticed that I had lied about unmodified kernel -- my twl3040 is in different state after removing battery May 17 14:29:59 SpeedEvil: seemingly vbus pump setting can survive a reboot May 17 14:30:05 odd May 17 14:30:07 javispedro: also how do you make yout telly (I know it's OT :) not expand the picture? May 17 14:30:30 "yout telly"? May 17 14:30:31 javispedro: I've done displayout via the TV-cord and it expands the picture something ridiculous :-/ May 17 14:30:47 your telly (the screen) May 17 14:31:10 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=660799&postcount=5 May 17 14:31:15 on composite out resolution May 17 14:32:09 the stretching done for fitting the 800x480 fb into tv out can be customized, though May 17 14:32:11 albeit not easily. May 17 14:32:46 SpeedEvil: sorry - lost me at "NTSC" ;-D May 17 14:33:41 Arkenoi: it's slow so far, as afaiu free libdlo doesn't implement all of the "patented" displaylink compression algorithms May 17 14:34:21 tybollt: Briefly - NTSC - somewhere around 420*480 pixels is achievable resolution in b+w, with colour more like 150*480 May 17 14:34:53 SpeedEvil: Talk PAL to me mate, I'm in Europe =) May 17 14:36:19 maemo sucks! May 17 14:36:54 it's the first time I see that. laugh. May 17 14:37:30 I'd rather people said "Maemo's got potnetial" rather than being all FANBOI!111 though. May 17 14:38:30 tybollt: It's broadly the same May 17 14:38:55 fair enough May 17 14:39:07 I'm not quite sure how much the composite out otuput can actually do if you set it to wierd modes. May 17 14:39:32 SpeedEvil: since you have the knowhow... why choose something analogue like that when they could've gone ... hdmi or such? May 17 14:39:39 In some ways this is irrelevant, as thogh you might be able to do 1024*768@80Hz on a sync-on-green monitor, ... May 17 14:39:42 More expensive May 17 14:39:48 why? May 17 14:39:58 I'm not sure there is actually a hdmi out on the CPU May 17 14:40:01 neglecting that. May 17 14:40:08 shouldn't converting to analogue mean more HW/cost than when all digital? May 17 14:40:15 tybollt, no need to add another connector. May 17 14:40:22 uhuh May 17 14:40:29 To bring out HDMI needs a comparatively large connector. A large hole in the case, with reliability and cost problems. May 17 14:40:32 so the phys layer is the costly part? May 17 14:40:36 yes May 17 14:40:41 * tybollt nods May 17 14:40:44 The BOM for the composite out is ... May 17 14:40:57 Maybe a dollar. May 17 14:41:04 oi May 17 14:41:06 iirc beagleboard has dvi-out through a hdmi connector May 17 14:41:10 And I could believe half that. May 17 14:41:12 easily May 17 14:41:18 that sjk! May 17 14:41:25 dvi via hdmi++ May 17 14:41:44 ShadowJK, I'm sure that if N900 would've been in the size of a BeagleBoard, it would've had a DVI connector. :-) May 17 14:42:06 but olrite May 17 14:42:27 The composite out hardware is basically already in the SoC May 17 14:42:32 displaylink then, IIRC it has those really tiny nano connectors on mac's May 17 14:42:51 SpeedEvil: that's what I find interesting... May 17 14:43:06 tybollt, so add a connector that nobody supports? Not very useful. May 17 14:43:15 I think it can do a 1024x768 that some monitors display and some reject May 17 14:43:27 Anyway, N900 is old hardware. Did DisplayLink even exist then? May 17 14:43:42 yes May 17 14:43:52 DisplayLink is NOT a propietary connector May 17 14:43:52 Displaylink is USB May 17 14:43:57 you're talking about DisplayPort May 17 14:44:10 and if you'd been paying attention a few minutes ago, you'd have found that javispedro had it working yesterday. May 17 14:44:17 but, in N900's case, the connector is not the main problem with the video May 17 14:44:20 oh May 17 14:44:24 Oh, displayport. :-) May 17 14:44:28 The main problem is the lag, IMHO May 17 14:44:38 which is (DisplayPort) most known as a cheap, royalty-free port that every manufacturer is dying to implement to replace the more expensive ones May 17 14:44:45 And some unfortunate visual artefacts that show up on digital TVs May 17 14:44:54 lag on video-out? May 17 14:45:01 Terje_: I've seen mac's w/ this displaylink connector that predates the N900 by what - two years? :) May 17 14:45:12 ShadowJK: Have you noticed that the TV picture is somewhat desynced from the LCD one? May 17 14:45:13 Terje_: sorry, yes, displayport :):) May 17 14:45:26 RST38h, no not really May 17 14:45:32 ShadowJK: Like the system is constantly copying it from one buffer to another using CPU May 17 14:45:43 but I've only used it with CRTs May 17 14:45:44 tybollt, ok. May 17 14:45:51 ShadowJK: especially noticeable in games May 17 14:45:51 RST38h: lag? cpu/DSP is not fast enough - can't keep up? May 17 14:46:05 "First version was approved in May 2006" May 17 14:46:30 Terje_: Huh? that's some TTM right there... :-S May 17 14:46:46 tybollt, from Wikipedia May 17 14:47:15 tybollt, still an extra connector. May 17 14:47:44 ok ok May 17 14:47:49 put in whatever Intel is fabbing right May 17 14:47:51 tybollt: Extra connectors cost money in many ways. May 17 14:47:51 now May 17 14:48:04 is it usb 3? usb 3 superspeed? usb 3 superspeed fiber? lightpeak? May 17 14:48:50 tybollt: You've got the straightforward cost. They cost money. You've got the reliability cost of adding an extra hole in the case, and the manufacturability issues. Then add the cost of extra returns through users breaking it. And users needing support with it. May 17 14:49:20 They didn't even put the irda diode in there even though they have the window, so ... :) May 17 14:49:51 HDMI/DVI/DisplayPort out would have been difficult.. May 17 14:49:58 SpeedEvil: I was thinking actually to hell w/ the jap plug and put a dislayport connector right there - do sound out via usb :) May 17 14:49:58 The OMAP only has one analogue video out and one digital video out May 17 14:50:08 the analogue one drives the composite video, the digital one drives the LCD May 17 14:50:14 composite, or s-video May 17 14:50:20 Beagle has an external DVI framing chip fed by the OMAP's digital out May 17 14:50:23 * SpeedEvil wonders if anyone has ever implemented the s-video. May 17 14:50:24 as does overo May 17 14:50:37 You can't have the DVI framer *and* the LCD, at least, not at once May 17 14:50:43 you'd have to have an external switching mechanism for htem ) May 17 14:50:45 javispedro: ? there is surely an irda diode in there? May 17 14:50:58 tybollt: not a reciever May 17 14:51:00 yes, the led. May 17 14:51:03 tybollt: only transmitter. May 17 14:51:04 tybollt: it's not IRDA, it's an IR transmitter May 17 14:51:06 but I am asking for a receiver May 17 14:51:06 ya May 17 14:51:11 it's only usable for lirc :) May 17 14:51:11 I gather as much May 17 14:51:17 yes May 17 14:51:18 I know May 17 14:51:22 And it's wackily connected to a random pin. Not the nice hardware CIR poty May 17 14:51:25 port May 17 14:51:34 curse that. May 17 14:51:39 curse! May 17 14:51:46 but yeah, you nede more than an extra connector to have digital tv out May 17 14:51:50 you need an actual framer chip May 17 14:51:54 notes from #maemo-meeting someone? I had to go May 17 14:52:01 and you nede a spare output from your display controller :) May 17 14:52:23 hrw: dneary will write minutes; I hope logs will be published to m.o (povbot was there) May 17 14:52:32 gah, i can't type need today May 17 14:52:34 I also have x-chat recorded ones May 17 14:52:36 thx May 17 14:52:41 They're on their way out May 17 14:52:53 thanks dneary May 17 14:53:01 (5 mins) May 17 14:53:30 Hi May 17 14:54:15 it's been nice to have a direction meeting, let's see if the next one is another direction one or a results one :) May 17 14:59:19 hrw: logs http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2010-05-17.html May 17 14:59:26 thx May 17 14:59:56 javispedro: Btw, I'm not to sure if we should keep the symbol file for Qt. May 17 15:00:07 yes, I am aware of the problems. May 17 15:00:16 javispedro: It seems to give very messy results. May 17 15:01:09 basically Qt doesn't have any ABI at all between 4.x releases May 17 15:01:17 *ABI compatibility May 17 15:01:42 javispedro: And this just doesn't look pretty ;) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/qt-mobility-examples/1.0.0-beta1-maemo6/ May 17 15:02:22 While it migh be true based on the symbols used. May 17 15:02:50 hm.. didn't see that one. May 17 15:03:16 what's going on there? do they really use _all_ of the libraries? May 17 15:03:42 example app, so I guess yes. May 17 15:04:33 this is actually a good example actually then? cause it's giving < 4.6 deps for most save for multimedia May 17 15:05:13 this just in: Biggest study thus far shows mobiles do not give you brain cancer. May 17 15:06:15 * pupnik dances the retardo dance. "haay de buttons wurk" .... javispedro does FN+Letter generate the right keycodes for SDL now or not? May 17 15:06:46 pupnik: that will never happen with the core SDL, as it's not really suited for that May 17 15:07:00 pupnik: if you're interested in text input you have to use my sdl_him project May 17 15:07:15 but "right keycodes" -- can't do for all fn+letter combinations May 17 15:07:26 so i have to detect the numbers my... ahha sdl_him... there's a wiki or t.m.o for it? May 17 15:07:33 ty May 17 15:07:39 pupnik, Fn is SDLK_MODE - you need to handle chords in app May 17 15:07:53 ok will do May 17 15:08:03 javispedro: This is a side effect of the new devkit too: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10180 May 17 15:08:04 Bug 10180: Some changes on autobuilder caused config.guess to determine chost wrong May 17 15:08:14 which I find usefull - I want to treat Fn like any other key May 17 15:08:36 yeah i can see there's no one-size-fits-all here May 17 15:10:21 X-Fade: so, what's exactly wrong on the qt mobility deps? May 17 15:10:37 javispedro: Well, it is including qt4.5.3 and 4.6 etc. May 17 15:10:53 and apt doesn't handle that well? May 17 15:11:00 javispedro: While that might be valid, I don't think it desirable. May 17 15:11:12 pupnik, but MODE is reported as a modifier, so decoding chords is really easy - http://github.com/smokku/uae4all/blob/master/src/maemo/keyboard.cpp May 17 15:11:15 i mean, 4.5 should conflict with everything 4.6 May 17 15:11:41 * pupnik hugs smoku May 17 15:11:53 thus a single package requiring 4.6 means the only satisfiable set is "4.6" May 17 15:13:09 argh, triplet. May 17 15:13:28 the worst part is that the correct one is the gnueabi triplet May 17 15:16:10 pupnik: I have no docs for sdl_him at the moment, sorry; header is http://git.maemo.org/git/sdlhildon/?p=sdlhildon;a=blob;f=sdlhim/src/SDL_him.h May 17 15:16:29 works on n8x0, n900, any layout, sticky keys, and you can even use the n800 virtual keyboard with it May 17 15:16:37 btw was it decided when to release 1.2 on the meeting guys? May 17 15:16:47 * tybollt ducks May 17 15:17:10 but it's also a bit less SDL1.2 and more SDL1.3.. May 17 15:20:04 javispedro: I wonder where marat gets that -gnu dependency from. May 17 15:20:05 tybollt: yep, decided to keep it back at least a week longer than scheduled May 17 15:20:17 X-Fade: looking at the package atm May 17 15:21:16 X-Fade: for some reason, there are two autoconf scripts in the package; one gets the -gnu triplet and the other one gets the -gnueabi one May 17 15:21:29 prolly different autoconf versions in the same src package :) May 17 15:21:52 Can be, there are alot of different file dates in that root. May 17 15:22:05 can be caused because one is regenerated, the other isn't May 17 15:23:13 present for smoku and javispedro and x-fade This guy makes music just like mine! "When not writing music for chamber ensembles, theater, dance, or film, Daniel Corral likes to relax a bit by making little electronic pieces." http://www.archive.org/details/DieLaughing May 17 15:23:14 javispedro: dnl SFLPhone - configure.ac for automake 1.9 and autoconf 2.59 May 17 15:23:21 javispedro: May 17 15:23:22 # Generated by GNU Autoconf 2.61 for sflphone 0.9.7~beta. May 17 15:23:34 configure.ac vs configure May 17 15:25:56 * javispedro hates autoconf May 17 15:26:09 * lcuk passes javispedro a knife May 17 15:26:44 autocombustion May 17 15:27:11 oh god, I can assure you, one wouldn't like to try to build all extras packages in obs =) May 17 15:27:44 Hehe, well that is already going on ;) May 17 15:28:22 yes, and all of my packages failed to build =) May 17 15:29:53 * javispedro is ashamed that really _all_ of them failed to build. I should set up a private obs soon.. May 17 15:30:04 javispedro: Want a log? May 17 15:30:48 yes, for example sdlgles May 17 15:31:05 X-Fade, lcuk suggested I ask you about the man-db package May 17 15:31:08 the other day I could look at the drnoksnes one -- external -devel dependencies May 17 15:31:29 but sdlgles shouldn't have any non-core repository deps! May 17 15:31:32 the man-db package in -devel is an altered version of the one in the sdk repo May 17 15:31:38 ah, maybe noka binaries :( May 17 15:31:39 MohammadAG_: You should not use man on device ;) May 17 15:31:49 the sdk will try to upgrade to the newer package, but that would break it May 17 15:31:51 guys May 17 15:31:58 X-Fade, it's working a-ok :) May 17 15:32:15 does anyone know if I maemo could keep alert me for event in calendar ? May 17 15:32:19 MohammadAG_: how did you break docpurge? May 17 15:32:20 I moved the config path to /opt/man May 17 15:32:23 or just beep once and miss ? May 17 15:32:24 ah. May 17 15:32:26 :) May 17 15:32:35 javispedro: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: opengles-sgx-img-common-dev May 17 15:32:41 binaries, dang it. May 17 15:32:53 X-Fade: what about sdlhaa? :) May 17 15:33:42 is it easy for you to check? wouldn't want to bother -- I really should setup obs and start experiencing this instead of fearing it. May 17 15:33:49 X-Fade, so, would it interfere with the SDK? May 17 15:33:59 javispedro: It is a web interface, so I can just click around ;) May 17 15:35:28 javispedro: http://maemo.pastebin.com/zntMES98 May 17 15:35:39 javispedro: gcc param issue? May 17 15:36:01 should check up on libtool docs May 17 15:36:04 hum May 17 15:36:11 where's libtool? May 17 15:36:46 ok, scratchboxism May 17 15:36:56 was there ever an answer about why the latest power kernels caused the loss in sound? May 17 15:36:56 seemingly sbox defines LIBTOOL env var May 17 15:37:12 Im holding my packages back until I find out what happened May 17 15:37:15 Ok, so we need to add that in fake-scratchbox ;) May 17 15:37:25 and I should fix that her.. May 17 15:38:14 *here May 17 15:39:05 here comes the weird part sflphone-common just built on my local squeeze sdk May 17 15:39:29 javispedro: Did you run autogen.sh? May 17 15:39:39 well, failed to build, but much latter on the build process (dh_installman: /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: man: command not found) May 17 15:39:52 X-Fade: nope, just dpkg-buildpackage May 17 15:40:20 this runs autoreconf on the root dir for some reason May 17 15:40:24 can see that on the logs May 17 15:44:29 hello May 17 15:45:06 i need some help guys May 17 15:45:44 jack_: just ask your question and someone in here might help you May 17 15:47:29 well on my list of apps for my n810 i have one called "epiphany web browser" and i think its uninstalled because it does not run and is not on the list of installed applications, all I want to do is remove it from the list May 17 15:50:10 back May 17 15:50:52 anybody got any help? May 17 15:51:38 jack_: the list of apps? where? May 17 15:51:57 man apt-get, get root console and try to play with it. May 17 15:52:09 under the internet section May 17 15:52:21 hi i'm new May 17 15:53:34 so if it type pr1.2 i get kicked . . lol May 17 15:54:13 Ask May 17 15:55:08 any way to remove the listing? May 17 15:57:16 X-Fade: file that determines whetever to say gnu or gnueabi is /usr/share/misc/config.guess ; on my system it comes from autotools-dev fremantle/sdk/free, and is archaic version May 17 15:57:31 Hi, I'm copying a movie to my home directory on my N900 via scp. Where does it need to be for the media player to find it? May 17 15:57:55 jeward: I think anywhere in MyDocs will work fine. May 17 15:58:00 Danke. May 17 15:58:30 X-Fade: that file alone CAN't say gnueabi at all :( May 17 16:02:19 X-Fade: the issue seems to be that while the root autoconf package ships its own config.guess file (thus getting consistent -gnu results), the other autoconf in /libs/pjproject one decides instead to use host's /usr/share/misc/config.guess May 17 16:02:34 for some reason this file must have been updated in sbdmock? May 17 16:02:48 line 6 of that file has a timestamp, here it is timestamp='2005-04-22' May 17 16:03:11 javispedro: let me check. May 17 16:03:45 javispedro: not there in the host. May 17 16:04:09 well, it has to source a more recent file from somewhere May 17 16:04:13 heh May 17 16:04:16 scratchbox is fun. May 17 16:04:28 [sbox-: ~] > cat /usr/share/misc/config.guess May 17 16:04:28 cat: /usr/share/misc/config.guess: No such file or directory May 17 16:04:47 that's _inside_ it? May 17 16:04:51 isnide the target? May 17 16:04:56 O.o May 17 16:05:48 Ah, config.guess is supplied by the compiler package. May 17 16:07:31 guys I am installing and configuring scratchbox right now, it is asking me for which devkits to select ... which one do I select ? May 17 16:07:41 it has to be in /usr/share/misc/config.guess -- else it won't symlink it May 17 16:08:03 ah.. May 17 16:08:06 /scratchbox/devkits/debian-squeeze/share/misc/config.guess May 17 16:08:08 I got apt-https, cputransp, debian-etch, debian-lenny, debian-sarge, doctools, maemo3-debian, maemo3-tools, perl May 17 16:08:17 don't suppose anyone has used their n900 in conjuction with the bluesoleil bluetooth driver May 17 16:08:29 in order to get audio playback from the n900 on the pc May 17 16:08:31 Which one do I select to compile new stuff for an n810 diablo ? May 17 16:08:32 X-Fade: ok, nice one May 17 16:08:38 javispedro: timestamp='2009-06-10' May 17 16:08:44 it works fine, but the sound quality isn't 100% :| May 17 16:10:16 X-Fade: interesting. so I guess that one overwrites the rootstrap one somehow. May 17 16:11:55 X-Fade: aha, sb-conf install -d does it May 17 16:12:36 possible solutions: tell him to upgrade and use 100% recent autoconf versions, May 17 16:13:08 or downgrade autobuilder by for ex reinstalling original fremantle autotools-dev package beforehand May 17 16:13:37 will post on bmo May 17 16:13:45 javispedro: It has not been a problem before. May 17 16:14:00 javispedro: So I suggest we help marat fix his package? May 17 16:14:46 I too like to move on; the pre gnueabi triplet is so old I am impressed maemo still uses it. May 17 16:14:55 s/on/forward May 17 16:15:00 hehe May 17 16:20:36 please guys what do I need to select there ? May 17 16:20:40 cputransp ? May 17 16:20:54 arm or x86? May 17 16:21:03 javispedro: my host ? May 17 16:21:09 is a gentoo box x86 May 17 16:21:11 no, your build target May 17 16:21:14 kpoman: Your build target May 17 16:21:18 javispedro: target is n810 May 17 16:21:23 maemo diablo May 17 16:21:26 are you building for device or for running on the pc? May 17 16:21:33 running on the device May 17 16:21:34 device May 17 16:21:39 Compiler: cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm May 17 16:21:39 Devkits: debian-etch deborphan cputransp maemo3-tools perl May 17 16:21:39 CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb2 May 17 16:21:50 already chosen, now what about devkits May 17 16:21:50 ignore deborphan devkit May 17 16:22:21 javispedro: why maemo3 ? May 17 16:22:23 debian-etch deborphan cputransp maemo3-tools perl May 17 16:22:40 kpoman: there's no maemo4 devkit if that's what you're asking May 17 16:22:45 javispedro: and what if I also want stuff for a chrooted "easydebian" thing ? May 17 16:23:05 kpoman: building stuff for the chroot? a bit harder if you want to do it well May 17 16:23:20 kpoman: since it's a chroot you could build stuff on device itself May 17 16:23:20 javispedro: ok, for now Ill stick to maemo May 17 16:23:35 installing gcc and all that. May 17 16:23:36 javispedro: I need toi shrink the ext2 fs ? May 17 16:23:54 kpoman: you can build the shrinker for maemo and run it from maemo May 17 16:23:59 javispedro: any clue on how to do that and still use distcc or whatever to speed things up ? May 17 16:24:05 why users shouldnt be allowed near devs... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=662667#post662667 May 17 16:24:16 kpoman: never used them myself, but I'm sure there will be some guides on the www May 17 16:24:19 javispedro: any way to do that with parted ? May 17 16:24:32 oh May 17 16:24:38 dunno May 17 16:24:40 it is not partitions, it is fs :( May 17 16:24:50 I always partition nits from pc May 17 16:24:58 via usb May 17 16:25:42 ok I will try that way .. but on a running image ? I mean I already did the apt-get upgrade thing etc... May 17 16:26:46 too many variable stuff to give meaningful answer :) May 17 16:26:50 javispedro: is there a simple tutorial on what to chose here ? I mean now I am asked which transparency method (qemu etc...) where is this documented so I dont have to bother you ? May 17 16:27:09 kpoman: everything you need about that is on my above quote May 17 16:28:05 javispedro: not all =D now I am asked about File or Download for the root thing May 17 16:28:07 :) May 17 16:28:39 kpoman: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.1/INSTALL.txt May 17 16:28:41 javispedro: sorry for mi ignorance :( I am noob May 17 16:29:46 javispedro: oh ok on 2.2 Installing Maemo 4.1 SDK manually setting up the targets May 17 16:30:55 X-Fade: Debian policy here seems to be "If those two files are not auto-updated in the package even with autotools-dev installed, copy them manually from "/usr/share/misc/config.*" and report this to the BTS." May 17 16:31:00 so it's a packaging bug May 17 16:31:39 javispedro: ok. May 17 16:32:22 javispedro: btw, build of sdlgles now done with nokia-binaries, fails with same env var issue. May 17 16:32:40 yes, both share the same makefile May 17 16:32:51 javispedro: Ok. May 17 16:32:59 (or nearly the same makefile) :) May 17 16:33:36 Ok, time for dinner. BBL. May 17 16:33:49 see you May 17 16:34:19 javispedro: ok downloading the rootstrap now ! May 17 16:37:24 javispedro: do you know a bit about usb host on n810 ? how can I disable os from putting into standby or whatever ? May 17 16:37:42 I am using a powered hub to plug some stuff there ... it just puts into standby May 17 16:37:42 into shutting the screen off? May 17 16:37:50 javispedro: no, the hub .. May 17 16:37:58 dunno about the hub May 17 16:38:16 javispedro: I mean I do lsusb I see my devices then they disappear and seems like they are set to sleep or something May 17 16:38:28 check dmesg May 17 16:38:35 javispedro: I'll try to be more specific ... May 17 16:39:44 javispedro: check here: http://pastebin.com/vuC0bTUe May 17 16:40:09 javispedro: as you may see it detects hardware .. then it fails May 17 16:40:22 auto-suspend or something similar causes the error I think May 17 16:40:48 javispedro: do you know if this is something sysctl related or some echo to some sys/ thingie ? May 17 16:40:52 dunno May 17 16:41:27 javispedro: do you have any links or whatever to experimenting with this ? libusb etc... May 17 16:41:59 nope, I doubt you can fix it with libusb May 17 16:43:22 javispedro: I want to program with libusb... seems like the device is not recognized then the kernel decides to suspend it or something .. I want to disable that May 17 16:43:34 Hi all ! To pyqt developer : i ve installed pyqt 4.7 and qt4 lib 4.6 on my n900 but the autorotate feature still didn t seems to work : i use self.setAttribute(QtCore.Qt.WA_Maemo5AutoOrientationn May 17 16:43:36 ) May 17 16:43:45 is it normal ? May 17 16:43:56 Khertan: yes, you need pr1.2 hildon-desktop May 17 16:44:13 ok thx May 17 16:45:07 so next step remove auto capitalization :) May 17 16:45:28 kpoman: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20070929053553.GA12796%40foursquare.net&forum_name=barry-devel May 17 16:45:38 and fix FingerScrollable on QTextEdit which didn t work anymore on qt4.6 May 17 16:45:42 let me see May 17 16:46:34 javispedro: I have read that link :) May 17 16:46:44 hey all May 17 16:47:11 javispedro: let me see (obviously one cannot recompile the kernel right?) May 17 16:47:17 anyone know how to view alt text in the browser? May 17 16:47:21 you surely can May 17 16:47:31 xkcd isn't the same without it. May 17 16:48:08 you can recompile the kernel if you are so inclined. May 17 16:50:24 javispedro: what about the closed source drivers ? May 17 16:50:41 PhonicUK, "I'm looking to virally monetize your eyeballs by selling them for transplants." May 17 16:50:55 kpoman: they're modules in /lib/modules/.. May 17 16:51:07 they are seperate modules and not part of the kernel May 17 16:51:20 how can we get infobot or something triggering xkcd May 17 16:51:25 javispedro: oh I only need to not break the dependencies and just copy them to my new kernel ? May 17 16:51:26 like it does for bug numbers May 17 16:51:26 lcuk, sounds painful May 17 16:51:29 bug 1234 May 17 16:51:30 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234 close-buttons on home menu are too small May 17 16:51:34 same for May 17 16:51:36 xkcd 400 May 17 16:51:39 ? May 17 16:51:41 kpoman: search tmo before doing that =) May 17 16:52:07 javispedro: ok ... now for the rootstrap .. why dont I have lsusb for example if it is present on my default nit 810 ? May 17 16:52:24 check which package contains it and install it on the sdk. May 17 16:52:48 lcuk, remember that i cant usually see the topic :p May 17 16:53:08 javispedro: I thought the sdk was a copy of what I have on my tablet via that rootstrap May 17 16:53:09 im on the bus at the moment May 17 16:53:20 javispedro: at least for basic tools such as lsusb May 17 16:55:15 javispedro: can I just do an apt-get update on my chroot ? May 17 16:55:55 why not May 17 16:55:55 javispedro: sorry for spamming you dude :) you are helping me a lot ! May 17 16:55:55 hey I was wondering if anybody could help me setup autoscan network? May 17 16:56:16 javispedro: ok so apt-get update then apt-get install libusb should put me to my nit level ? May 17 16:56:23 try it May 17 16:56:39 dont worry ill come bac later May 17 16:57:34 javispedro: is there a way to get the chroot equivalent to the device ? I mean I dont want to compile something then copy to the device and I had a different lib version on it :( May 17 16:57:43 javispedro: I mean how this is managed ? manually ? May 17 16:57:55 the SDK is designed so that does not happen May 17 16:58:25 javispedro: ok by mean of having same repo for the device and the sdk ? May 17 16:58:51 nope, but compatible. May 17 16:58:55 ok May 17 16:59:21 javispedro: i didnt find anything about tmo (modules and kernel compilation) ... what did you mean by that ? May 17 17:00:20 that building the kernel is not going to be easy so please search talk.maemo.org and the mailing lists; it must be documented somewher May 17 17:00:48 javispedro: ok I will take a look there for example what about grub or whatever May 17 17:02:17 javispedro: you told me about a shrinker app for the ext2 easy debian thing ... I cant find it on the package manager :( May 17 17:02:39 no, I couldn't tell you of a such an app cause I said I use my computer to do it May 17 17:04:01 gotta go, bye May 17 17:04:29 N900--make IRC meetings on the job May 17 17:29:27 could someone tell me what's the kernel version in pr1.1.1? May 17 17:29:51 MiXu-, .28 May 17 17:30:31 2.6.28-omap1 ? May 17 17:32:40 Hey everyone, is it possible to use the front cam to make pictures with my N900? May 17 17:32:52 you don't want to ;-) May 17 17:32:59 :) May 17 17:33:04 ok, is it so bad? May 17 17:33:31 The thing is, I want to see myself when I take a picture of myself for a profile on a website somewhere May 17 17:34:42 SmokeyD, just use the rear cam May 17 17:34:50 it really sucks. well, in a bright daylight it sucks a little bit less. May 17 17:34:54 and get a helper, a mirror, or eyeball it. May 17 17:35:43 GAN900: with a little trial and error, that works fine indeed May 17 17:48:32 hi May 17 18:23:58 * achipa loves when the autobuilder fails on him with no error message May 17 18:24:19 achipa, worse things happen at sea May 17 18:24:27 indeed May 17 18:24:35 wheres the cauldron build folder? May 17 18:25:57 I just got https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/python-qt4-experimental_4.7.3-maemo3/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt and it won't budge May 17 18:26:11 (in case we're talking about the same thing) May 17 18:27:21 I just *know* it's something trivial, it's just my eyes preventing me from seeing the problem as a part of a heinous conspiracy to get me to drink coffee this late May 17 18:29:35 achipa: wow. May 17 18:30:19 is this potentially something wrong with the man-db? May 17 18:30:31 or am i barking way up the wrong alley May 17 18:31:05 Hi again ! May 17 18:31:14 but... that's even before my stuff get extracted ? May 17 18:31:22 MohammadAG pushed it in May 17 18:31:24 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/man-db/2.5.1-3maemo3/ May 17 18:31:29 happens when your stuff is being extracting May 17 18:31:35 it replaces the one from the sdk and i mentioned it might cause conflicts May 17 18:31:35 lcuk: might be related indeed..... hmpf. May 17 18:31:44 * javispedro downloads source package and tries at home May 17 18:31:56 right, did I get a reply? May 17 18:32:02 from X-Fade? May 17 18:32:03 I didn't understand well something from the meeting ... did you want to remove maemo.org/download for maemo.org/packages ? May 17 18:32:08 MohammadAG: here be dragons. May 17 18:32:24 Khertan: make the first use the former May 17 18:32:29 lol May 17 18:32:29 s/former/latter May 17 18:32:54 javispedro did you will take care of third parties repositories ? May 17 18:32:57 here's a good one: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/python-qt4_4.7.3-maemo2/armel.root.log.OK.txt May 17 18:33:05 I really prefer the idea of monthly blog summaries of activity. May 17 18:33:18 pretty much the same with except for the man warning May 17 18:33:22 I wonder if it's not something the council should try out. May 17 18:33:48 achipa, wlel the package for man-db comes up hundreds of times using the version that worked May 17 18:33:53 and once using the version that failed May 17 18:34:08 achipa: found the problem May 17 18:34:11 that F-F adapter better arrive soon May 17 18:34:14 dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in debian/control at line 181: duplicate field Replaces found May 17 18:34:21 DUH May 17 18:34:29 but... wait... May 17 18:34:37 guys, any css gurus in here maybe? May 17 18:35:07 javispedro did you will take care of third parties repositories ? or did you want to wipe them from maemo.org/downloads ? May 17 18:35:09 vim syntax highligthing barfs at the file so I'm at a loss. May 17 18:35:21 javispedro: but how is it possible that in my scratchbox it works ? May 17 18:35:35 achipa: older debian tooling is less picky :( May 17 18:35:38 (just tried checkbuilddeps and it said no foul play) May 17 18:35:50 I see :( May 17 18:36:38 javispedro, why isnt the problem highlighted then? May 17 18:36:40 would not be a problem if the error went to log, tho May 17 18:36:44 Khertan: at this point dunno May 17 18:37:06 I wonder how trivial it would be to port cups May 17 18:37:09 achipa: yes, this also rings a bell May 17 18:38:24 apparently it isn't trivial at all May 17 18:38:51 scratch that, it's p**s easy :P May 17 18:39:14 probably sbdmock needs quite a bit more logic when calling checkbuilddeps May 17 18:39:47 javispedro: yes, but... for dumping things to stderr ? May 17 18:39:58 /home/mohammad/cups/cups-1.4.3/cgi-bin/libcupscgi.so: file not recognized: File format not recognized <- grr May 17 18:41:07 maybe; didn't read sbdmock source :) May 17 18:43:34 * javispedro 's autobuilder-tests dir is already 2GiB May 17 18:43:40 time to clean it up May 17 18:51:48 whoa busy autobilder times are back again :) May 17 18:53:27 * achipa wonders how many people will not heed the *experimental* moniker on his package and install regardless May 17 18:55:04 achipa: EXPERIMENTAL moniker??? It will draw users to it! May 17 18:55:23 * javispedro loves all those stupid discussions about extras-devel not being stable enough May 17 18:55:30 forbidden fruit syndrome, eh ? May 17 18:56:02 here in #maemo we should call it the "red pill syndrome" May 17 18:56:31 javispedro: well, it's stable but this one is a borker. As in, it's for people who actually know how to resolve dependency issues with apt May 17 18:56:56 Hehe May 17 18:57:04 Call it the boring version May 17 18:57:10 That might keep people away May 17 18:57:16 * Khertan hate that everythings is done to avoid third party repository May 17 18:57:18 :) May 17 18:57:20 achipa, did you check mwkn yet today? May 17 18:57:34 (stable) May 17 18:57:48 eerm... just a fleeting glance... May 17 18:58:11 achipa, just wondering if the flash launcher summary was acceptable. May 17 18:59:48 how do I backup application data? I need to reflash :( May 17 19:00:22 GAN900: yeah, perfect. Though the -experimental is slightly misleading there. I used it only to keep in line with the Qt nomenclature we agreed on (the two packages are identical, the difference is just what Qt they link to) May 17 19:00:23 tar up home user? May 17 19:00:31 (and in case that wasn't obivous, I have never reflashed before) May 17 19:01:43 javispedro: muchas gracias for the pointer, that control nudge did the trick (it still dies, but now at least I see what the issue is :) ) May 17 19:02:06 achipa: if you want to reproduce this you should install the -squeeze devkit May 17 19:03:10 ambivalent feelings about that, don't know how much poking/tweaking Niels did to it... May 17 19:04:05 well, I do... May 17 19:06:51 anyone silc on n900? May 17 19:08:07 javispedro: in that case, as no good deed goes unpunished, can you tell me if "arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lgconf-2 " is also the result of the squeeze devkit ? May 17 19:08:17 can anybody lend me a hand in spawning a new terminal via the xterm-icon when there already is an instance running? May 17 19:08:32 (as it is another thing that works on my EC2 build machine and not on the autobuilder) May 17 19:08:50 achipa: well, might, but I've not seen it happen so far. May 17 19:09:17 mikki-ku1, tap the title bar ans hit new May 17 19:09:37 lol May 17 19:10:16 " yadda yadda The 64-bit support is now more or less complete yadda so it's time to think about the next stable release." May 17 19:10:24 javispedro: libqt4-network triggers it, for example May 17 19:10:25 answer: "What 64-bit support?" May 17 19:10:33 MohammadAG: is there also a way in tweaking the icon though? i did it via the titlebar maybe once a month ago and sometimes it's fullscreen... May 17 19:10:58 so no titlebar visible and the same amount of "clicks" is needed May 17 19:11:03 oh, no idea about that May 17 19:11:21 achipa: you mean libqt4-network build? May 17 19:11:40 achipa: I cannot build heavy qt packages on this poor workstation, do you have a simpler testcase? May 17 19:11:49 ok, still thanks for this idea :) May 17 19:11:54 javispedro: so, how do we go forward with the 3d driver? May 17 19:11:58 javispedro: uhhhm... will try to dig up one... May 17 19:12:35 javispedro, get a faster workstation? :P May 17 19:12:39 Stskeeps: filling it with printks is all I have for a plan =) May 17 19:12:52 javispedro: the one I can repeatably demonstrate is if you link to libqt4-network, you will have a missing gconf-2 lib, which then you have to include manually in build-depends May 17 19:13:16 "manually?" May 17 19:13:24 javispedro: i wonder if we can hook into 'request to have transfer done from fb to lcd' and 'completed transfer' May 17 19:13:59 as in from an editor May 17 19:14:06 when you delete some picture of video in the n900 is not easy way to get i back ? May 17 19:14:24 the n900 dont have any .trash folder or something ? May 17 19:14:29 javispedro: I would expect the -dev package to bring in any other -dev packages required for the given apckage May 17 19:14:47 E0x: afaik you could use some tools which read the vfat sys and recover it from there May 17 19:15:10 or ext2 should also have some tools which allow that... *searching for vfat-based ones* May 17 19:15:14 mikki-kun: yes i know , i was hoping for something more easy May 17 19:15:18 i am lazy right now May 17 19:15:28 and is not that important May 17 19:15:33 Stskeeps: I quite liked fanoush' approach of using fb1 or fb2 much like xv. of course this is all easier from user space and the reason I was trying to guess what's libomaplcd.so doing... May 17 19:15:36 E0x: ohhh, well, data-recovery isn't easy =p ^^ May 17 19:15:47 thx May 17 19:16:02 as in, the -lgconf-2 dependency/error appears from the dark since the squeeze update May 17 19:16:36 Stskeeps: btw, does the n8x0 updated kernel use omap dss2 or same as stock kernel? May 17 19:17:50 javispedro: stock, i think May 17 19:17:58 hm... maybe that is an old question and i am sure some are fed up, but would you recommend in shortly overclocking the n900 if the cpu-power is needed? May 17 19:23:30 javispedro: got time for 30 mins worth of ping-ponging regarding the driver? May 17 19:24:12 Stskeeps: not at the moment, but will probably have in an hour May 17 19:24:17 alright May 17 19:24:30 I should test your version in stock diablo btw May 17 19:24:34 well not stock May 17 19:24:37 but .21 May 17 19:24:49 will do after dinner :) May 17 19:25:16 :nod: May 17 19:43:41 is it possible to play music through the phone speaker? May 17 19:44:04 (i mean the one on the left that you hold to your ear) May 17 19:47:59 BCMM, not officially May 17 19:48:04 or unofficially (yet) May 17 19:51:01 hello May 17 19:51:27 http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/17/zte-packs-3g-maemo-into-its-v7-mid/ May 17 19:52:37 it is running PR1.2 ;) May 17 19:53:24 boo May 17 19:53:32 no pr1.2 jokes :( May 17 19:54:02 it is out, no joke May 17 19:54:09 coming tomorrow morning May 17 19:54:23 i dont believe you May 17 19:54:27 hehe May 17 19:54:31 don't forget to hang a stocking at your bedside and place your n900 there, for upgrade May 17 19:55:02 RST38h, now you're just being cruel ... May 17 19:55:10 not now, always May 17 19:55:10 pr1.2dnf May 17 19:55:33 well, sometimes you are cruel but helpful May 17 19:56:39 i dont care anymore anyway now i decide i should wait for meego instead May 17 19:57:20 but what are you going to wait for once meego pr1.2 is announced? May 17 19:57:25 "wait for meego" lol... May 17 19:57:30 and wont notice updating to 1.2 May 17 19:57:44 I'll wait for mambooza in 2123 May 17 19:57:56 it's supposed to play green ray May 17 19:58:10 will do my own os May 17 19:58:14 oh and it can microwave you're leftovers May 17 19:58:27 and wait for that May 17 20:00:25 how do i set volume from cmdline? May 17 20:00:46 alsamixer didnt May 17 20:01:08 alsamixer -c 0 should May 17 20:01:45 been tryig to find my n900 today so decide to ssh into it and use mplayer to play mp3 May 17 20:01:47 ~seen noobmonk3y May 17 20:01:48 noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-181-7-164.range86-181.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6d 1h 23m 6s ago, saying: 'ie it wasnt working, but randomly fixed to get it working ;)'. May 17 20:02:20 but the volume was too quiet May 17 20:02:49 alsamixer -c 0, raise the first bar to 100, check the output is through speakers and not headsets May 17 20:03:00 half an hour later i found it's much easier just to ring it May 17 20:03:46 mo, thanks a lot May 17 20:04:46 sorry ircing from n900 and dont know how to tab May 17 20:05:12 virtual key should be translucent May 17 20:05:29 wall[e], lol np May 17 20:05:36 so i can spell people name under it May 17 20:05:46 isn't it shift + right? May 17 20:06:21 doesn't work for irc nick May 17 20:06:35 xchat here May 17 20:07:51 yeah May 17 20:07:59 hmm, maybe shift space? May 17 20:08:30 Settings > Advanced > Keyboard shortcuts May 17 20:08:30 i changed the default combo May 17 20:09:00 irssi 4ever May 17 20:09:55 MohammadAG, thanks! May 17 20:10:19 want bx May 17 20:11:04 * MohammadAG downloads irssi, to see what it's about May 17 20:13:57 the n8x0 3d driver has a sane of unholiness over it May 17 20:14:27 sense May 17 20:15:00 MohammadAG_: it's about awesome May 17 20:15:20 don't see much off a difference :P May 17 20:15:29 anybody tried calling a gtalk (on fring) user. doesnt work :( May 17 20:15:29 except that it's all terminal-y May 17 20:15:32 which I like May 17 20:15:52 dont know whether it is maemo fault or fring fault May 17 20:15:52 how do I check queries and the such May 17 20:16:14 trumee: I can't call fring users from skype May 17 20:16:25 It shows that they're busy May 17 20:16:31 one client is enough May 17 20:16:44 N900 simply shows connecting and drops the call May 17 20:17:08 I think that's fring' fault May 17 20:17:25 fring's* May 17 20:17:29 MohammadAG: fring on N95 and gtalk on N900 is what i tried May 17 20:17:46 MohammadAG: u got me wrong May 17 20:18:15 MohammadAG: i tried calling to a fring user using N95 from N900 May 17 20:18:15 yes, fring rejects calls, I tried calling an E66 May 17 20:18:30 (though I was using skype) May 17 20:18:42 MohammadAG: gtalk fails but skype worked for me May 17 20:18:46 I got that May 17 20:18:55 weird May 17 20:19:12 skype doesn't work for me May 17 20:19:12 it drops the call and says busy lol May 17 20:19:26 MohammadAG: is it frings fault you think? May 17 20:20:23 for gtalk, N900 says connectioning and later drops the call May 17 20:20:57 not to happy about that. all my friends use fring on symbian! May 17 20:21:15 trumee, yeah, it might be fring's fault May 17 20:21:20 never tried gtalk May 17 20:21:26 Nimbuzz ftw May 17 20:21:41 Nimbuzz works? May 17 20:22:09 going to give Nimbuzz on N95 a go then May 17 20:23:06 not sure, but I always used nimbuzz for chat May 17 20:23:25 I found it better than fring May 17 20:23:32 but it does put some load on RAM May 17 20:23:36 hm... does fring support video-calls on the n900? May 17 20:24:25 not sure, but PR1.2 will have video call support (internet calls only) May 17 20:25:01 MohammadAG: so via skype finally the frontal cam is used? May 17 20:25:25 if you don't flash eMMC then /home/user wont be touched right? or is it just /home/user/MyDocs/ ? May 17 20:25:27 mikki-kun, yes, qole confirmed it May 17 20:25:33 YAY \o/ May 17 20:25:43 hurray \o/ finally some use for that ^^ May 17 20:25:54 ToJa92, flashing the fiasco doesn't touch the whole eMMC May 17 20:26:05 /home/user, /opt and MyDocs should be preserved May 17 20:26:15 /opt will be cleared when PR1.2 is released May 17 20:26:22 great May 17 20:26:28 i hope PR1.2 won't be delayed too much... i am used to some instability May 17 20:26:29 I don't want to loose my images ;) May 17 20:26:52 but not instant crashing from which i cannot retrieve anything... May 17 20:27:07 but I get annyoing messages about "calendar" crashing unexpectadly, so time for my first re-flash May 17 20:27:25 first? *shrugs* May 17 20:27:32 I lost count after the 27th one May 17 20:27:36 ToJa92, no images are not touched unless you flash the emmc, but as matter of course with all digital devices they should be backed up offline somewhere anyway :p May 17 20:27:43 MohammadAG: yeah, some people had only one ^^ like me May 17 20:28:08 hi guys May 17 20:28:22 [lcuk]: Yeah, I'll do it soon.. I have not taken that many pictures yet though May 17 20:28:26 lol mikki-kun :p May 17 20:28:36 no flasher for 64-bit? :( May 17 20:28:39 lcuk, did you get yesterday's problem fixed? May 17 20:28:40 oh well May 17 20:28:45 or are you still out? :P May 17 20:28:50 ToJa92, which OS? May 17 20:28:53 Win 7 May 17 20:28:58 why do I ask May 17 20:29:15 -ToJa92- VERSION mIRC v6.35 Khaled Mardam-Bey May 17 20:29:15 :) May 17 20:29:18 how do i count images on my machine? May 17 20:29:25 not sure about windows, but on Ubuntu I can force the installation May 17 20:29:27 MohammadAG: no developer or anything and i am not playing around too much with apps and especially not the kernel... (though i have testing enabled) May 17 20:29:34 where are the images? May 17 20:29:39 yeah, I've got a mirc script with a customized .exe May 17 20:29:44 modified* May 17 20:29:52 I enabled -devel from day 1 May 17 20:29:58 * MohammadAG waits for a witty comment from lcuk May 17 20:29:59 MohammadAG, different places, is there a tracker info tool? May 17 20:30:12 I think I can respond with custom replies if I want though :P May 17 20:30:34 lcuk, not sure about tracker, but you could try ls *.png | wc -l May 17 20:30:52 i had it on as soon as i saw "damn, close to no apps -.- i'll give devel a shot"... that was after 13 hours afair ^^ May 17 20:30:56 or .jpg May 17 20:30:56 whatever you use May 17 20:31:29 MohammadAG: i would add "-l" to ls... May 17 20:31:45 otherwise on short filenames it'll show them also in columns May 17 20:31:50 MohammadAG, recursive? May 17 20:31:56 i put pictures into folders to group them May 17 20:32:07 hmm, that's tricky May 17 20:32:10 ls -lR but that'll give some extralines May 17 20:32:25 I hate it with ssh gets swapped May 17 20:32:31 so you gotta take the output of one ls -lR and then remove the number of those lines manually May 17 20:32:51 ill try with find May 17 20:33:16 MohammadAG-N900:/home/user/MyDocs/.images# ls -lR *png *jpg | wc -l May 17 20:33:21 161 May 17 20:33:34 1144 May 17 20:33:39 oh sorry May 17 20:33:43 that was my find one May 17 20:33:52 "find . -name "*.jpg" | wc -l May 17 20:34:07 trying a weirder command May 17 20:34:17 ls -lR * | grep *png *jpg | wc -l May 17 20:34:36 yeah the *png tries to expand May 17 20:34:39 it's still counting lol May 17 20:35:07 those fail May 17 20:35:10 the find one works May 17 20:35:14 but only includes jpgs May 17 20:35:27 +388 for .png May 17 20:35:39 lcuk, http://maemo.org/profile/view/benson/ :P May 17 20:36:07 1532 photos/images on /home/user May 17 20:36:26 MohammadAG-N900:/home/user/MyDocs/.images# ls -lR * | grep *png *jpg | wc -l May 17 20:36:30 1790 sketches May 17 20:36:32 0 May 17 20:36:33 since onedotzero May 17 20:36:38 and it took 3 minutes May 17 20:36:43 lol May 17 20:36:49 that grep should fail May 17 20:36:51 yeah it does May 17 20:36:54 MohammadAG: somehow you can't use two parameters May 17 20:36:58 for grep May 17 20:37:02 find /home/user -name "*.jpg" | wc -l May 17 20:37:05 mine showed it fails May 17 20:37:07 works for jpgs May 17 20:37:17 then repeat for pngs May 17 20:37:21 then add together May 17 20:38:07 nice that my graffiti wall can now list cleanly all of them :) May 17 20:38:59 let's dump Qt and switch to liq* :P May 17 20:39:20 MohammadAG: try changing *png/*jpg into .jpg... May 17 20:39:28 that will at least give you some results May 17 20:40:37 MohammadAG: and for the sake of UPPER/lowercase i'd tweak grep with "-i" ;) May 17 20:41:38 lol May 17 20:43:16 is the command line for flasher in the wiki correct? I recall reading something about it being wrong, but Im not sure.... May 17 20:45:31 well, grep actually has a -c feature i see which means "count the lines as far as i understood it in a hurry" May 17 20:45:48 damn, who really came up with the idea of removing man-pages -.- May 17 20:46:40 ToJa92: it should... at least ir worked for me when i flashed my device to factory May 17 20:50:58 hmm... I get "flasher-3.5.exe: option requires an argument -- r" May 17 20:51:15 also, windows never found any drivers when I held u and connected the cable May 17 20:51:54 ToJa92: ? did you mean to type -R ? May 17 20:52:22 yeah May 17 20:52:28 that's the error in the wiki :P May 17 20:52:43 now its working May 17 20:59:08 ~flashing May 17 20:59:09 from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware May 17 21:00:02 ToJa92, don't blame the wiki, it's correct :) May 17 21:05:01 so.. I can't ssh locally, but I can ssh remotely, any ideas? May 17 21:05:17 it never worked locally, but yesterday it started working May 17 21:15:53 Why are browsers still showing me *text* in a language i don't know? May 17 21:16:41 wb javispedro May 17 21:17:01 sorry Stskeeps, forgot about you =) May 17 21:17:11 meh, i went and posted instead :P May 17 21:17:27 that post made my n900 ring :) May 17 21:18:00 yes it is rfbi; fanoush confirmed it May 17 21:18:02 am i crazy or does this sound like a solution for at least the flip'ing problems? May 17 21:18:15 talking about http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=663091&postcount=12 May 17 21:18:49 yep, reading May 17 21:20:13 in my mind it hangs together May 17 21:20:31 i wonder how this interacts with xv then May 17 21:20:32 00:10 < me1ne> hm. I never ever used javascript. not even for forms checking where I should have. Don't like it. May 17 21:20:40 dammit May 17 21:20:59 javispedro: this is without xv involvement at least May 17 21:21:08 however May 17 21:21:15 there is one benefit to fanoush's proposal May 17 21:21:40 Xomap can keep on updating it's fb0 while we play around in fb2 May 17 21:22:16 ie, it'd be better for us to use fb2 instead of fb0, as we're constnatly changing the framebuffer pointer and i doubt X looks pretty doing it May 17 21:22:51 I don't know how that works; who says Xorg is not changing it too May 17 21:23:08 we cannot run xv and 3d at same time probably May 17 21:23:25 exactly -- the reason I was thinking about the interaction with xv :) May 17 21:23:55 but either way, having the basic 3d working, even with screen artefacts, would be a start May 17 21:24:34 my problem is that i cannot verify if omaplcd_ddc_process_vsyncflip is ever getting called. May 17 21:25:07 Stskeeps: can you modify a pixel in kernel, old debug trick. May 17 21:25:15 printk works too May 17 21:25:16 :P May 17 21:25:45 * javispedro worst' gripe are the damn leaks May 17 21:26:05 the leaks i can explain by now May 17 21:26:11 too many n8x0 reboots required for meaningful printk session May 17 21:26:23 oh May 17 21:26:32 the leaks happen because vsyncflip is never called May 17 21:26:43 ie, no complete() callbacks May 17 21:27:09 except for the first one May 17 21:27:13 well, not even that one May 17 21:27:27 as the complete() thing is done in vsyncflip May 17 21:28:03 wow May 17 21:28:33 so things just queue up May 17 21:28:38 Ovi is f'd up May 17 21:28:39 running dbus-monitor while signing in shows the pass May 17 21:28:49 "PCI will crash anyway on N8x0 " heh May 17 21:28:59 yeah May 17 21:29:10 i didn't want to bother rewriting that part :P May 17 21:29:56 ocuh May 17 21:29:57 cd May 17 21:30:52 Stskeeps, removing xv on the 810 especially will be bad news for anyone wanting to play video May 17 21:30:54 well at least it works as usual on my n8x0, good stuff. May 17 21:31:01 \o/ May 17 21:31:09 lcuk: no, just not working at the same time May 17 21:31:21 ie, if one app is using 3d, we cannot do xv at same time May 17 21:31:35 the 810 can barely show an xv window and normal x11 at the same time so i doubt that would be noticed :D May 17 21:31:38 hehe May 17 21:32:43 btw May 17 21:32:49 why do you say that? May 17 21:32:52 is BUFFER_OVERLAY defined? May 17 21:32:57 no May 17 21:33:02 ah, stupid me May 17 21:33:05 (afaik) May 17 21:33:10 xv on the n8x0 uses gfx window May 17 21:33:19 I think? May 17 21:33:54 i dunno what it uses within the omap driver May 17 21:34:01 xv just uses fb2 as overlay i think or something May 17 21:34:09 that would be same as n900 then May 17 21:34:10 and then pushes window updates for whatever it wants to show May 17 21:34:20 but I'm not sure on n8x0, cause blizzard means the dss is not that useful May 17 21:34:56 technically we could show xv and 3d at same time. if it tried as hard to update the window areas as the 3d driver would be doing May 17 21:34:57 ie you would just use pixel doubling on the epson chip and put the video data "somewhere". May 17 21:35:41 but first things first :) May 17 21:38:40 javispedro: but if you have time to prove that omaplcd_ddc_process_vsyncflip is getting called, i think we can simply try to: May 17 21:39:00 blizzard_update_window_async(blizzard.fbdev->fb_info[0], &blizzard.auto_update_window, NULL, NULL); May 17 21:39:18 do I have access to that many symbols? May 17 21:39:27 well, yes May 17 21:39:28 sec May 17 21:39:57 no need to check just curious :) (i'd easily get the link error...) May 17 21:40:17 we have the fbdev easily accessible as registered_fb[0] May 17 21:40:53 #include May 17 21:41:13 that's already imported (driver uses registered_fb iirc) May 17 21:41:36 and auto_update_window .. May 17 21:41:37 ok, I think I follow you May 17 21:42:17 http://pastie.org/964543 May 17 21:42:30 struct omapfb_update_window May 17 21:42:40 ah, same as userspace one May 17 21:43:20 if we can get the first frame to show without us manually updating the display from userspace, that's a start May 17 21:43:28 the "which framebuffer to show" part is hidden, seems. May 17 21:43:37 hmm? May 17 21:43:54 omaplcd_flip_command just gets the base address of it as a parameter May 17 21:44:23 and that's the one process_vsyncflip sets as base for the gfx window May 17 21:44:33 :nod: May 17 21:44:44 was expecting to see it alternating between two big allocations. that would be too easy =) May 17 21:45:28 and add a printk in process_vsyncflip so we know if it's being called :P May 17 21:48:02 does this make sense? :) May 17 21:49:38 not called. May 17 21:49:51 :( May 17 21:50:06 damnit May 17 21:50:17 well, what gets called then May 17 21:50:19 nite all, sweet dreams May 17 21:50:26 Flip() does, i guess May 17 21:50:29 no May 17 21:50:40 forgot to put to the printk in flipoverlay May 17 21:50:40 * Stskeeps glares May 17 21:50:42 ah May 17 21:50:57 :) May 17 21:51:00 but I can't see where it's defined May 17 21:51:02 so.. May 17 21:51:09 i thought flipoverlay wasn't enabled May 17 21:51:12 ie, BUFFER_OVERLAY May 17 21:51:31 it's not defined May 17 21:51:39 right, that's what i'm saying May 17 21:51:40 :P May 17 21:51:54 but that means no Flip* function is called May 17 21:52:06 yet something is getting written to the fb i guess? May 17 21:52:47 yep -- weird May 17 21:53:01 wtf :P May 17 21:53:04 I do get the printk I put in InitMain(), in case you're wondering May 17 21:53:12 i was for a second May 17 21:53:44 me too. May 17 21:54:05 btw this is non debug version I guess, as all I get is [197.507812] InitMain() called [ 197.507812] No flipbuffers May 17 21:54:26 :nod: May 17 21:55:58 will try to guess what's going on. meanwhile, is the supposed caller of omaplcd_flip_command visible on public mbxaccess.ko? May 17 21:56:28 well, that's the funny part May 17 21:56:30 command 0 of the display class driver function table May 17 21:56:40 pfnCmdProcList seems to be a dead end May 17 21:56:42 sec May 17 21:56:56 it's passed in to mbxaccess May 17 21:57:10 this is similar to the n900 one May 17 21:57:19 it's one of the few parts where the sgx one helps.. May 17 21:57:35 mbxaccess_RegisterCmdProcList is a nullop May 17 21:58:47 ah, too easy. May 17 21:58:50 :( May 17 21:59:41 even the swap one looks like a nullop May 17 22:00:07 so, wtf makes the magic -actually- happen? :P May 17 22:01:26 javispedro: and you're sure you copied over the omaplcd.ko and not just mbxaccess.ko? :P May 17 22:01:46 InitMain was in omaplcd_displayclass.c, so pretty sure. May 17 22:02:01 either way who could be calling it? May 17 22:06:47 there's quite a few other places where GOLCD is asserted May 17 22:07:13 but yes, nowhere else is GFX_BAi touched... May 17 22:09:18 i am currently suspectig the swap chains May 17 22:09:32 [ 270.843750] OMAPLCDOpen() May 17 22:09:32 [ 270.843750] OMAPLCDBridgeDispatch(cmd=3221505591) May 17 22:09:46 that's my beloved libomaplcd.so at work >:( May 17 22:11:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgOyTNtsWyY&feature=player_embedded May 17 22:12:45 javispedro: what are you testing with btw May 17 22:12:57 trying to find _any_ function called per frame May 17 22:13:17 ok, so you have a gles test, ok May 17 22:13:34 yes, feel free to ask for a printk anywhere May 17 22:13:41 :> May 17 22:13:46 is the ISR getting installed? InstallVsyncISR May 17 22:14:15 InstallVsyncISR is called May 17 22:14:22 it does NOT return an error. May 17 22:14:33 (that's all I could get with the previous trace) May 17 22:14:54 next up is swap chains i guess May 17 22:14:59 ie, createswapchains May 17 22:15:07 -s May 17 22:16:46 * Stskeeps officially doesn't understand thisdriver May 17 22:17:08 hum May 17 22:17:22 first time mbxdaemon throws some shmid stuff on me May 17 22:17:41 * javispedro decides it's time for another reboot May 17 22:20:50 CreateSwapchain not called either May 17 22:20:56 (who could call it?) May 17 22:21:28 sequence of ioctls to /dev/omaplcd is open(), _INIT_MAIN, _INSTALL_VSYNC_ISR, and that's about it May 17 22:22:05 hi again ! May 17 22:22:35 do someone know why I am getting "ls: /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2: Value too large for defined data type" ? May 17 22:23:18 javispedro: i'm running into so many null-ops it's not funny :/ May 17 22:23:33 btw I am still doing resize2fs debian-squeeze.img.ext2 4000M May 17 22:23:48 korhojoa: fat32 doesn't like 4gb files May 17 22:23:56 Stskeeps: no wonder. I'm pretty sure it was all nooped as part of the "driver split". May 17 22:24:27 reason they made a otherwise completely useless libomaplcd.so, to hide most logic. May 17 22:24:33 Stskeeps: it is an ext2 file May 17 22:24:33 hey May 17 22:24:35 all May 17 22:24:39 did I say I hate that one .so? :) May 17 22:24:53 kpoman: doesn't matter May 17 22:24:55 Stskeeps: for an ext2 fs May 17 22:24:55 i think its time for me to replace my GPUs :( May 17 22:25:02 Stskeeps: did I break it all then ? May 17 22:25:18 Stskeeps: or can I go back ? May 17 22:25:19 javispedro: omaplcd_ddc_swaptosystem getting called? May 17 22:26:09 Stskeeps: I just want to shrink my fs, it is too small May 17 22:26:12 javispedro: also, no createswapchain? May 17 22:26:14 Stskeeps: easy debian thing May 17 22:26:23 Stskeeps: yes, no createswapchain nor delete May 17 22:26:44 javispedro: wtf. May 17 22:29:19 Stskeeps: the file seems to work .. I am checking the fs and no errors found, let me try to chroot to it May 17 22:30:18 Stskeeps: oops, seems unable to mount it, I guess because of the ls problem ! May 17 22:30:29 Stskeeps: current trace: http://pastebin.com/26c6JMFv May 17 22:30:32 javispedro: i have a nasty nasty feeling that libomaplcd is editing kernel structures directly May 17 22:30:43 ah, you're starting to feel the hate! May 17 22:31:24 well I think it's evil but not that much. As you can see on the trace it seems to call into omaplcd.ko for setting / removing the isr May 17 22:31:32 btw, the SDK has debug symbols, ie, info types and info functions May 17 22:32:14 wow it seems there is a bug un busybox for n810 :( damned May 17 22:34:22 btw ReleaseBackBuffer is never called May 17 22:34:28 that is one big hell of a leak May 17 22:36:03 ah no May 17 22:36:17 seems it doesn't try to reallocate when running the sample twice May 17 22:36:38 yep May 17 22:36:52 killing mbxdaemon causes deinit_main ioctl -> release back buffers May 17 22:37:30 i gotta sleep now, with nightmares May 17 22:38:06 anyone getting htc evo? May 17 22:38:17 pfft. this is what one should expect when reading what still reads to me like windows ce code =) May 17 22:40:28 its about time a device is 5 band wcdma (N8). I hope more companies follow May 17 22:43:22 opdf2, this is #maemo. Does any HTC run Maemo? :P May 17 22:43:54 i know but people have multiple devices. Just wonderin May 17 22:46:13 oh, I'm sure Stskeeps is going to like ths May 17 22:46:30 I can create a borked version of AllocContiguosMemory that just returns 0x100 always May 17 22:46:33 and the driver still works May 17 22:46:37 magic!! madness!!!! May 17 22:46:43 THIS. IS. THE. MBX May 17 22:47:04 [ 83.828125] AllocContiguousMemory(size=768000) May 17 22:47:05 [ 83.828125] AllocContiguousMemory BEING EVIL HERE! May 17 22:47:16 including returning 0x100 for what clearly is the framebuffer May 17 22:47:19 it should explode. May 17 22:47:21 but it works. May 17 22:47:49 javispedro, thanks for working on this. :) May 17 22:48:21 ok I just found this: deb http://repository.maemo.org/community/ diablo free non-free ... adding it to my sources file ! :) May 17 22:48:28 am i noob :( May 17 22:48:37 GAN900: hah, tell me that in a few hours when I lose the rest of my sanity :) May 17 22:48:50 javispedro, OK. :) May 17 22:48:51 *pLinAddr = 0x100; pPhysAddr->uiAddr = 0x100; rarrrh May 17 22:49:06 kpoman, that's the SDK repo May 17 22:49:12 somewhat dangerous on device May 17 22:49:15 GAN900: it was not on my sources May 17 22:49:28 GAN900: I just need to update busybox to have large file support May 17 22:49:31 So don't run any apt-get dist-upgrades May 17 22:49:52 GAN900: do you have an idea on how to update that specific package ? May 17 22:50:52 conclusion: this driver is useless. it's a shim, designed to distract us from the real mbx driver: little elves that are inside the binary libraries. May 17 22:51:12 without the elves part, it might actually be true... May 17 22:51:22 javispedro: No, it's Elvis. May 17 22:52:06 kpoman, not offhand. May 17 22:52:50 GAN900: could you please help me just a bit to get this fixed ? I just shrinked my easydebian file to 4GB, but now busybox, lacking of LFS support, is bugging ... I just want to have LFS May 17 22:53:04 GAN900: I need to put lot of stuff on that ext2 file May 17 22:57:59 kpoman, sorry, at work at the moment. May 17 22:58:24 GAN900: no problem ... May 17 23:01:51 * DocScrutinizer says "ho", coughs, wipes the flu viri off the channel, and goes back to bed May 17 23:02:12 aha, I passed that to you May 17 23:02:23 thanks, mate May 17 23:02:59 darn missed #maemo-meeting May 17 23:03:29 got chan backscroll, so no problem May 17 23:05:54 any other exciting news I missed? PR1.7? May 17 23:06:04 N1100? May 17 23:06:21 OC to 7GHz? May 17 23:06:32 do someone know how do I update busybox to latest for diablo ? May 17 23:06:39 DocScrutinizer, pr1.7 was a bit OTT, it was an odd number ;) May 17 23:06:48 darn May 17 23:07:07 it was stabilised not long after May 17 23:07:25 PR10.0 I suppose May 17 23:07:40 and by the time 2.4 came out they had managed to remove most of the blood stains May 17 23:07:48 the n900 has been overclocked to max_int GHZ and it suddently ascended May 17 23:07:52 into another plane of existence May 17 23:08:02 hehe May 17 23:08:22 and on the way we left behind SB for diablo, I guess May 17 23:08:34 take that, those who haven't bough a n810 while they could! May 17 23:08:34 from here: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/61054 it seems "Fixes: BMO#3917" fixes my problem ... how do I get this ? please someone help, if not here where ? :) May 17 23:08:35 ooh BUSYBOX May 17 23:08:39 MESSYBOX May 17 23:08:40 the only non-ascended device! May 17 23:08:56 kpoman: get rid of it - the best you can do :-P May 17 23:09:00 help May 17 23:09:14 kpoman: there's quite a large topic about it on talk.maemo.org May 17 23:09:16 DocScrutinizer: there is an update for it May 17 23:09:30 how do i get the maemo theme in my gtk application for maemo phones? it shows up with the default gtk grey May 17 23:09:39 javispedro: it is supposed to be fixed somewhere in community ... but I cant get how to install this ! May 17 23:09:44 so why a 3D driver works _without_ backbuffers? May 17 23:09:46 * DocScrutinizer shrugs and points to his mantra "I *HATE* BUSYBOX" May 17 23:09:50 javispedro: that is why I ask for help :) May 17 23:10:11 hi May 17 23:10:12 DocScrutinizer: is there a simple way to replace the whole busybox with something else ? May 17 23:10:14 one would think a backbuffer is really required for double buffered operation which is the only one it can do May 17 23:10:22 unless my definition of back buffer is outdated May 17 23:10:30 kpoman: no May 17 23:10:35 kpoman: You don't want to. May 17 23:10:46 kpoman: busybox is _really_ good for low-RAM stuff. May 17 23:10:52 kpoman: dunno for diablo, for fremantle you have to keep it as initscripts will break without messybox May 17 23:11:00 any great hacker to inject PHP MAILER INBIX May 17 23:11:02 SpeedEvil: sure I dont really want that, I just want to have CONFIG_LFS on mine May 17 23:11:02 kpoman: Starting a new shell script with busybox uses almost no memory. May 17 23:11:03 any great hacker to inject PHP MAILER INBIX May 17 23:11:03 any great hacker to inject PHP MAILER INBIX May 17 23:11:04 any great hacker to inject PHP MAILER INBIX May 17 23:11:05 any great hacker to inject PHP MAILER INBIX May 17 23:11:16 daddyT: you're well? May 17 23:11:19 DocScrutinizer: FINISH HIM! May 17 23:11:22 is this like the honour virus? May 17 23:11:31 kpoman: starting a new shell with bash may use a largish slice of a meg. May 17 23:11:32 daddyT, whay is INBIX? May 17 23:11:35 what May 17 23:11:37 awww May 17 23:11:40 i wanted to know May 17 23:11:46 lifes little mysteries May 17 23:12:10 ban? May 17 23:12:19 SpeedEvil: well my intention is to have a 4G easydebian thing dude ... just saw that busybox is broken. just want a newer, which seems to be available somewhere ( Fixes: BMO#3917 ) however, HTF do I get that May 17 23:12:23 lcuk: now you'll have to go onto another freenode channel and start asking for a great hacker to inject PHP MAILER INBIX thus repeating the process =) May 17 23:12:37 would he dare to come back with an op like you around doc? May 17 23:12:46 o_O May 17 23:12:49 indeed May 17 23:13:02 I doubt, but would like it, if it were not for my flu May 17 23:13:04 "how is babby formed" May 17 23:13:13 haha May 17 23:13:16 that one made me laugh May 17 23:13:26 help welcome May 17 23:13:38 bah May 17 23:14:46 brb May 17 23:15:15 kpoman: seems few diablo active users around atm May 17 23:15:34 kpoman: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=642634#post642634 May 17 23:15:49 next time I'm using that let me google that for you site =) May 17 23:16:03 :-D May 17 23:16:51 javispedro: you might consider to help me on http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue May 17 23:20:02 hello guys, anybody here who play starcraft2? May 17 23:25:30 javispedro, http://live.lmgtfy.com/ May 17 23:25:58 you can thank me later May 17 23:25:58 have fun reading what others do on lmgtfy May 17 23:26:13 "is masturbation a sin" May 17 23:26:42 site requires js May 17 23:27:02 haven't seen that yet lol May 17 23:27:27 javispedro: Only if you use an iphone. May 17 23:27:46 LOL May 17 23:28:54 i've managed to disassemble bme_rx-51 down to the assembly code :) http://b-man.xceleo.org/files/bme_RX-51.dis May 17 23:29:45 b-man: I've got a copy of IDA lying around somewhere if you want to throw that at it May 17 23:29:58 sure :) May 17 23:30:02 * satmd knows how much work that is and congratulates b-man May 17 23:30:17 i also have the hex and string dumps if you like :) May 17 23:30:21 lol May 17 23:30:32 b-man: just so I can catch up, bme is an executable on the phone? May 17 23:30:39 b-man: you objdumped it? May 17 23:30:42 budfive: yes May 17 23:30:48 ~bme May 17 23:30:49 from memory, bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME May 17 23:30:55 ~BME May 17 23:30:56 well, bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME May 17 23:30:57 b-man: sounds nice May 17 23:31:03 * b-man uploads the rest of the data May 17 23:31:04 or like a big hoax May 17 23:31:10 lmao May 17 23:31:34 we're trying top reverse engineer it to make host mode work? Sorry, I haven't been paying attention as much as I would've liked May 17 23:32:08 budfive: it's related to host-mode. May 17 23:32:12 host mode is already working though May 17 23:32:17 budfive: And other stuff that it does that is annoying. May 17 23:32:23 javispedro, liked the Displaylink thing :) May 17 23:32:30 if only you could upscale it :) May 17 23:32:34 http://b-man.xceleo.org/files/bme_RX-51.elf - elf data for gdb May 17 23:32:48 * b-man uploads the hex/strings May 17 23:32:48 MohammadAG: Host mode is working, in the sense that duct taping on your cars wheels works, rather than actually using bolts. May 17 23:33:05 well at least it works May 17 23:33:23 budfive: actually hostmode 'team' found a way around BME for now it seems, that's called 'stop bme' May 17 23:33:23 It works - if you happen to have a PC nearby to connect it to first. May 17 23:33:28 http://b-man.xceleo.org/files/bme_RX-51.hex May 17 23:33:45 This - kind of makes it somewhat pointless in the current form. May 17 23:33:48 i see. let me dig up ida. haven't used it for a while May 17 23:33:57 DocScrutinizer, wouldn't a daemon to detect a charger be ideal for host mode? May 17 23:34:09 stop bme when the charger isn't there, start it when the charger is inserted May 17 23:34:10 http://b-man.xceleo.org/files/bme_RX-51.strings :) May 17 23:34:33 b-man: did you get all of these dumps by objdumping the executable May 17 23:34:34 ? May 17 23:34:34 if DocScrutinizer is right and charging is so simple (and of course he probably is) disassembling bme might be counterproductive as there will be much legacy uh, crap in there. May 17 23:34:38 or whenever a USB cable is inserted it would ask if it should be a host, client, or if it should start bme May 17 23:34:45 SpeedEvil, it needs a PC? May 17 23:34:48 MohammadAG: nope, as you're not supposed to connect a charger when in hostmode, and also host config of phy doesn't allow charger detection May 17 23:35:02 MohammadAG: yes May 17 23:35:13 budfive: i used hexdump and objdump May 17 23:35:20 DocScrutinizer, didn't you say you *should* be able to charge while in host mode? May 17 23:35:22 MohammadAG: The only way to currently get it into hostmode relies on you plugging it into a host first. May 17 23:35:25 brb - back in 5 May 17 23:35:32 MohammadAG: yes - without any problem. May 17 23:35:46 well that's not actually useful (but again, at least it works) May 17 23:35:58 javispedro: that link is exactly the one I got ... how do this make happen ? May 17 23:36:05 hostmode as of egoshin exploits one bug to crerate another, and in their total they result in a working enum of a peripheral May 17 23:36:15 but that's not hostmode really May 17 23:36:46 MohammadAG: It laways worked, and I always told ya it would May 17 23:37:20 * MohammadAG is kind of lost May 17 23:37:30 MohammadAG: nope, as you're not supposed to connect a charger when in hostmode May 17 23:39:18 MohammadAG: hostmode is NOT about autodetection. A usb host is sth completely different than a device, and you need to switch to hostmode via some software means. Otherwise it won't even detect when you connect a peripheral to N900 May 17 23:39:31 and n hostmode you CAN NOT detect charger May 17 23:39:55 (at least in *correct* hostmode) May 17 23:40:05 Oh May 17 23:40:11 one more question May 17 23:40:18 don't have a USB F-F adapter to test this, but wouldn't running /usr/sbin/pcsuite-enable.sh be sufficient instead of connecting to a PC? May 17 23:40:32 MohammadAG: I am also playing with host mode ... I am having problem with suspend on a powered hub ... May 17 23:40:59 MohammadAG: just wanna play with libusb a bit on hostmode May 17 23:41:00 MohammadAG: interesting thought. May 17 23:41:14 MohammadAG: no May 17 23:41:17 /sbin/modprobe g_nokia May 17 23:41:20 MohammadAG: no idea, as I never tested egoshin's method. It wrong May 17 23:41:25 MohammadAG: however - it's also the broken statemachine in the driver you're playing with - it's not the userside. May 17 23:41:39 you really need to start a host session May 17 23:41:53 no way to force it into one? May 17 23:41:54 then abruptly "interrupt" it with vbus May 17 23:41:57 on May 17 23:42:03 and plug into device May 17 23:42:08 listen to javispedro - he knows how to implement correct hostmode May 17 23:42:20 hah, but this is not it :) May 17 23:42:34 MohammadAG: yes - it's possible to force it. May 17 23:42:42 MohammadAG: but the code isn't really there in the kernel. May 17 23:43:04 and I somehow have a feeling it won't be there for some time :) May 17 23:43:07 MohammadAG: The current method of tricking the kernel into detecting USB stuff is messy. May 17 23:43:19 MohammadAG: no reason it can't be in a non-nokia patch. May 17 23:43:24 MohammadAG: isnt libusb the best approach for host mode on usb instead of recompiling the kernel ? May 17 23:43:30 You could even get it pushed upstream possibly. May 17 23:43:32 kpoman: no. May 17 23:43:36 kpoman, don't ask me lol May 17 23:43:37 MohammadAG: you could use a dummy with two pulldown R to simulate the host on the USB (sth that egoshin wails to switch the PHY in N900 to) May 17 23:43:40 SpeedEvil: is it slow ? May 17 23:43:41 kpoman: I'm not sure libusb can even do that May 17 23:43:52 kpoman: USB host mode is a different configuration. May 17 23:43:58 libusb is for host kernels May 17 23:44:01 kpoman: USB is _not_ a peer-peer net. May 17 23:44:07 SpeedEvil, I doubt Nokia will fix the driver May 17 23:44:07 SpeedEvil: many hardware stuff I am testing right now relies on libusb, and it is quite cool not having to recompile the kernel for each test May 17 23:44:10 kpoman: It's very much host-peripheral. May 17 23:44:16 it's the one I used for displaylink stuff May 17 23:44:22 (libdlo uses libusb) May 17 23:44:23 (it doesn't follow the specs anyways) May 17 23:44:42 * DocScrutinizer waves and heads off talking to his virus May 17 23:44:56 MohammadAG: You can still have diff patches off the nokia tree. Or even try to push the code upstream yourself. May 17 23:45:10 javispedro: dude, I installed this thing: http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing.install ... but still no update there ... :( May 17 23:45:53 Community SSU, I like that May 17 23:46:14 I thought the N8x0s were abandoned May 17 23:46:21 MohammadAG: i am trying to get latest busybox ... no chance May 17 23:46:55 no luck I meant May 17 23:47:00 donno why :( May 17 23:47:49 MohammadAG: thank lma May 17 23:48:39 thanks lma May 17 23:48:44 at least it's in the logs May 17 23:49:41 oh ok it seems like apt-get install busybox is working May 17 23:49:43 :) May 17 23:49:45 let me try this :D May 17 23:49:57 it wants to install all this: May 17 23:50:05 osso-software-version-rx44 dnsmasq kernel-diablo-flasher libloudmouth1-0 libmodest-dbus-client libtinymail-1.0-0 libtinymail-camel-1.0-0 libtinymail-gnomevfs-1.0-0 libtinymailui-1.0-0 libtinymailui-gtk-1.0-0 libtinymail-maemo-1.0-0 modest osso-pdf-viewer xserver-xomap busybox May 17 23:50:12 this is gonna be fun :D May 17 23:50:13 kpoman: you really, really should try to follow the instructions May 17 23:50:21 kpoman: use the application manager to update May 17 23:50:28 kpoman: if you can't, post your feedback in that thread May 17 23:50:34 javispedro: it did not find updates ! May 17 23:50:48 no updates found even after updating everything May 17 23:50:59 probably you don't have osso-software-version-rx44 package, or you removed it May 17 23:51:10 ah well you have, it's there above. May 17 23:51:19 well, so ask for support in that thread. May 17 23:51:23 yep, it is quite strange May 17 23:51:42 javispedro: I see this: kernel-diablo-flasher ... will it brick my thing ? May 17 23:51:57 yes. use the application manager! May 17 23:52:09 :) May 17 23:52:24 (well no, but you really should use the application manager to enter it, and follow the instructions May 17 23:52:34 javispedro: why isnt it finding the package then ? May 17 23:52:37 if it's not appearing for you for some reason PLEASE do report to lma May 17 23:53:15 javispedro: how in command line do I emulate the application manager so I can pastebin whatever ? May 17 23:53:48 javispedro: because i just cant show what is going on via my n810 gui ! May 17 23:54:05 well just explain it, no need for a screenshot with a 100% empty application manager May 17 23:54:33 javispedro: see, I added the source you told me .. it did an update and still no info about any kind of update available May 17 23:54:52 avatar the last air bender is so goddamn funny May 17 23:57:46 javispedro: do updates reside on a particular category ? May 17 23:57:57 no May 17 23:58:42 javispedro: do I click on Check for updates ? May 17 23:58:49 yes... May 17 23:59:13 javispedro: ok, checking ... however I am quite sure of the result May 18 00:00:01 which is .... May 18 00:00:11 (still checking ... ) May 18 00:01:24 hello people! May 18 00:01:48 javispedro: (no updates available) ! :( May 18 00:02:04 * javispedro calls it a day with this driver May 18 00:02:08 gnite May 18 00:02:25 hey! i'm trying to install ubuntu 2.2 in my n810 May 18 00:02:38 HI! May 18 00:02:40 but i cant umount my mmcblk0p1! Why? May 18 00:03:07 umount: cannot umount: device or resource busy May 18 00:03:12 pls HELP!!! May 18 00:03:22 fuser -m /dev/whatever May 18 00:03:33 or May 18 00:03:37 rm -rf / May 18 00:03:44 ok, not that May 18 00:03:50 too late May 18 00:03:57 oops May 18 00:04:04 javis, come back !!!! May 18 00:04:09 I wont bother you anymore :o :D May 18 00:04:12 lol May 18 00:04:32 sorry? i didn't understood May 18 00:04:32 too late yep May 18 00:04:47 why? people abandoned os2008? May 18 00:04:48 koolio May 18 00:04:54 * B-man|N900 starts disasembling hald-addon-bme May 18 00:04:55 I was bothering him, he ran away May 18 00:04:56 (crying) May 18 00:05:04 dude, are you a woman May 18 00:05:07 stop being som dramaticf May 18 00:05:21 so dramatic May 18 00:05:25 what are you calling me, asshole May 18 00:05:46 man, you go from extreme emotion to extreme emotion May 18 00:06:10 at least he is not a bot May 18 00:06:20 didn't speed tell you what to try? May 18 00:06:40 what are you getting all pissy for May 18 00:06:42 go try it May 18 00:06:51 close the process stopping you from unmounting, and move on May 18 00:07:11 aah, thats why May 18 00:07:15 multiple personalities ;) May 18 00:07:30 lol May 18 00:07:35 toolio May 18 00:07:38 try what speed told you May 18 00:07:40 good one May 18 00:07:50 will probably solve your simple issue May 18 00:07:55 lsof May 18 00:07:57 or at least enable you to figure out your own answer May 18 00:07:58 fuser May 18 00:08:07 please, talk like a human being, pls May 18 00:08:10 fuser fts May 18 00:08:23 just? May 18 00:08:25 his emotions are taking over again May 18 00:08:59 o man, please, i'm just 14 old, May 18 00:09:02 so, take it easy May 18 00:09:14 well in that case May 18 00:09:18 run along and go play May 18 00:09:19 wow I think my device is rebooting after the upgrade ... i am dead :( May 18 00:09:21 the adults are talking here May 18 00:09:58 you're so polite! May 18 00:10:10 shoot, he's on to me May 18 00:10:18 better switch to plan B May 18 00:10:31 at least nokia logo is still there :s May 18 00:10:31 as much as I'd like to keep playing wiht you, I have some work to do May 18 00:10:33 good luck May 18 00:11:02 wowo the little hands too ! the sound ! May 18 00:11:04 wow May 18 00:11:08 ok, gentleman, go work...oh, are you a vigilant? it's 02:00 am here May 18 00:11:32 tuliobaars_, note, this is a worldwide chan :) May 18 00:11:40 good luck with your reflashing quest! May 18 00:11:45 and of course some people work at night May 18 00:11:46 i'm kidding, pls May 18 00:12:06 tuliobaars_, reboot your n810 May 18 00:12:17 cool, it worked ! May 18 00:12:18 its the easiest way May 18 00:12:23 now my image works :P nice :p May 18 00:12:36 thats good you can come and fix mine now May 18 00:12:38 i've just tried it so many times, but thanks May 18 00:12:41 let's reboot... May 18 00:12:44 ok May 18 00:12:48 now check if it has free space :p May 18 00:12:50 which is the mmc thats duff? May 18 00:13:00 mmcblk0p1 May 18 00:13:07 is that the 2gb internal one? May 18 00:13:16 damned it still says there is no available space on it :( wtf May 18 00:13:19 yeah May 18 00:13:35 cannot umlount, device or resource busy May 18 00:13:43 tuliobaars_, its daft, usb still connected? May 18 00:13:57 no, lcuk May 18 00:14:11 ok, theres potentially some file system thingy May 18 00:14:14 fsck or something May 18 00:14:25 but i dunnot the syntax or if it will work May 18 00:14:34 * lcuk waves hands - linuxy stuff May 18 00:14:39 like the dblet image? May 18 00:14:59 no a command to try and repair filesystem May 18 00:15:08 fsck /dev/mmcblk0p1 May 18 00:15:13 -a for auto May 18 00:15:18 see, i knew someone would know May 18 00:15:20 * MohammadAG switches back to CoD May 18 00:15:21 :P May 18 00:15:21 ta mo May 18 00:15:25 woah May 18 00:15:29 anytime :) May 18 00:15:35 please, go a litle slowly! May 18 00:15:35 shouldn't he unmount the partition before fsck'ing it May 18 00:15:58 i'm root. and now? May 18 00:15:58 i dunno :$ May 18 00:16:08 fsck /dev/mmcblk0p1 ?? May 18 00:16:10 i think May 18 00:16:11 good morning May 18 00:16:13 without the ?? May 18 00:16:14 fsck can be destructive if run on a live partition May 18 00:16:21 he cant mount it May 18 00:16:38 or its unmount? May 18 00:16:40 ohoh, i love my tablet alive... May 18 00:17:02 i'm trying to do that: umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 ,312,C ,200,S ,,L ,, May 18 00:17:02 what did you do to break it May 18 00:17:19 o_O May 18 00:17:20 nothing, i'm just saying May 18 00:17:21 ahh May 18 00:17:28 sorry May 18 00:17:30 yea May 18 00:17:31 he can't May 18 00:17:37 thats not even the same thing, disregard me May 18 00:17:38 so, fsck? May 18 00:17:44 he asked to fuser / part May 18 00:17:56 to see what was using the resource May 18 00:18:34 so, fsck , should i try? fsck /dev/mmcblk0p1 ? May 18 00:18:42 fuser -m /dev/mmcblk0p1 May 18 00:18:53 see if any pids are returned May 18 00:18:58 if so, thats why you can't unmount it May 18 00:19:22 a lot of numbbers May 18 00:19:25 tuliobaars_, May 18 00:19:29 every one of those May 18 00:19:33 is a process May 18 00:19:38 that has some open files on that partition May 18 00:19:41 you can kill them all May 18 00:19:41 tuliobaars_, you didn't use that command on one line did you? May 18 00:19:46 which would propbably bring down your system May 18 00:19:46 i'm trying to do that: umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 ,312,C ,200,S ,,L ,, May 18 00:20:05 fsck? i'm afraid of using it May 18 00:20:07 but I would at least check and see what they are May 18 00:20:09 you need to have it on two separate commands May 18 00:20:37 im so noob in your's side!!! May 18 00:21:04 dude May 18 00:21:04 so, fsck /dev/mmcblk0p1 , correct? May 18 00:21:06 Im not following May 18 00:21:10 why would he be using sfdisk May 18 00:21:25 kamui, change the partition table? May 18 00:21:28 does that specific flag force an unmount May 18 00:21:40 termana, maybe we're talking about two different things May 18 00:21:46 tuliobaars_, no May 18 00:21:56 not fsck, i thought you were having a problem mounting it May 18 00:22:04 not a problem umounting it May 18 00:22:04 he wants to unmount it May 18 00:22:09 he finally did the fuser May 18 00:22:16 yep May 18 00:22:20 and found a ton of pids using resources on the disk as was suspected by speedevil May 18 00:22:23 indeed, just making sure May 18 00:22:25 he has to kill those pids May 18 00:22:29 or at least figure out what they are May 18 00:22:33 tuliobaars_, why are you doing sfdisk if your trying to just unmount it? May 18 00:22:40 problem is, as I expected, they probably do that at boot time May 18 00:22:44 so rebooting isn't gonna help him May 18 00:22:50 pls, wait, i've to reboot, ok? my pc? can i? May 18 00:22:58 Im not real familiar wiht the original N800, but doesn't it use the 2gig partition to hold the system? May 18 00:23:04 stop for a little bit the conversation? May 18 00:23:23 tuliobaars_, yes reboot your pc we'll still be here May 18 00:23:27 most likely anyway May 18 00:23:40 so it would be like trying to unmount root on a live system with stuff running May 18 00:23:47 thanks May 18 00:23:51 hald-addon-bme dis, hex, string, and elf dumps are now up on http://b-man.xceleo.org :) May 18 00:23:55 yes, kmui May 18 00:24:10 * http://b-man.xceleo.org/files May 18 00:24:27 why this link? May 18 00:25:00 here i am again May 18 00:25:03 i'm not going to reboot May 18 00:25:13 tuliobaars_, do me a favour May 18 00:25:13 reverse engineering bme May 18 00:25:20 tuliobaars_, your root on your device right May 18 00:25:33 yep May 18 00:25:56 tuliobaars_, so when your in the terminal, your commands are prefixed with a hash right (#) May 18 00:26:19 yep, so i typed su May 18 00:26:23 to get more privileges May 18 00:26:41 i wanna install xubuntu i my n810. May 18 00:26:47 tuliobaars_, now type umount -l /media/mmcblk0p1 May 18 00:26:59 err May 18 00:27:03 it isn't /dev/mmcblk0p1 ? May 18 00:27:05 /dev/mmcblk0p1 May 18 00:27:09 yes sorry :P May 18 00:27:18 umount -l /dev/mmcblk0p1 May 18 00:27:22 or -f and force it May 18 00:27:34 not recommended May 18 00:28:03 I'm off May 18 00:28:14 oh, i think it works May 18 00:28:24 it jumps the line, its correct May 18 00:28:37 yes, it's not verbose by default May 18 00:29:01 what's the cleanest way of exiting less or man? May 18 00:29:03 You shouldn't use -l on all unmounts btw :P but it got you past it this time May 18 00:29:14 MohammadAG, Ctrl + C? May 18 00:29:17 so, i typed sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 May 18 00:29:19 not really May 18 00:29:34 q May 18 00:29:39 I use CTRL+Z, but that's not that doesn't seem to allow the process to terminate May 18 00:29:43 i'm folloing the tutorial May 18 00:29:48 MohammadAG, May 18 00:29:51 meh, so easy May 18 00:29:51 doesn't Q work for you May 18 00:29:56 yeah just tried it May 18 00:29:58 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27735 May 18 00:30:10 never expected it to use letters May 18 00:30:12 lols May 18 00:30:15 MohammadAG, yes, Ctrl + Z just stops it displaying to the terminal. Ctrl + C will kill the process May 18 00:30:16 yea, I know what you mean May 18 00:30:22 * DocScrutinizer shakes head on madness about a silly thing like umount going on here May 18 00:30:22 ctrl-z just suspends May 18 00:30:24 iirc May 18 00:30:29 fg to return the pid May 18 00:30:33 or bg to run it in the background May 18 00:30:37 either way it doesn't kill the process May 18 00:30:58 Termana, so it's actually running in the background? May 18 00:31:13 that's a memory 'leak' plugged then May 18 00:31:13 well, if you use ctrl-z its paused in the background May 18 00:31:20 ctrl-c kills it May 18 00:31:20 * MohammadAG hands DocScrutinizer his coffee May 18 00:31:34 MohammadAG, with Ctrl + Z? I don't know, kamui is probably right, it probably suspends the process May 18 00:31:40 Ctrl + C May 18 00:31:42 rather May 18 00:31:49 MohammadAG-N900:~# ls /dev/ | less May 18 00:31:50 [4] + Stopped ls /dev/ | less May 18 00:31:50 <-- this CTRL+Z May 18 00:31:52 desperately needed, short on coffee May 18 00:31:55 what I hae o , peolpe? May 18 00:31:56 Can I have one of those coffees? :P May 18 00:32:11 sorry, giving out bacon now May 18 00:32:18 * MohammadAG waits for it May 18 00:32:24 so, what I have to do, people? May 18 00:32:36 MohammadAG, yea, now type fg to restore it May 18 00:32:38 abill_uk was unbanned, shortest ban I've seen May 18 00:32:38 sfdisk doesn't work too May 18 00:32:43 or fg PID if you suspend many apps May 18 00:32:54 tuliobaars_: please first post ourput of 'mount' May 18 00:33:04 kamui, it gets reloaded May 18 00:33:09 umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 May 18 00:33:17 MohammadAG, yea it just resumes it May 18 00:33:23 umm May 18 00:33:24 so you don't have a crapload of background suspended pids May 18 00:33:30 tuliobaars_, what does the tutorial tell you to do? May 18 00:33:30 sfdisk doesn't work May 18 00:33:31 kill it with the correct quit command or ctrl-c May 18 00:33:32 why are you repartitioning mmcblk0 May 18 00:33:37 sfdisk May 18 00:33:39 tuliobaars_: this line of yours is BS, sorry May 18 00:33:43 WHY, not how May 18 00:33:50 what is BS? May 18 00:33:55 bullshit May 18 00:34:00 :P May 18 00:34:02 missing at least a ";" May 18 00:34:04 man, you really are 14 May 18 00:34:08 :-D May 18 00:34:09 thanks May 18 00:34:13 16* :P May 18 00:34:14 yeah May 18 00:34:24 14 May 18 00:34:26 DocScrutinizer, no he just added the second command to the line to show he had done both commands I think May 18 00:34:26 13, but 14 in june May 18 00:34:27 oh, him May 18 00:34:31 man you youngins are lucky May 18 00:34:39 I didn't have great tech until I turned 18 and got a job May 18 00:34:39 nope, I missed out on the N810 times May 18 00:34:49 a decade ago May 18 00:34:50 haha May 18 00:34:55 sup haltdef May 18 00:34:55 how old are you, kamui? May 18 00:34:57 got my n900 with my first paycheck :P May 18 00:35:01 Termana: if the first throws error, what's sense of trying 2nd (sfdisk)? May 18 00:35:06 tuliobaars_, do the math, 18 + a decade May 18 00:35:10 180 May 18 00:35:11 :P May 18 00:35:12 DocScrutinizer, he said the first worked May 18 00:35:18 181.5 May 18 00:35:20 actually May 18 00:35:26 makes sense May 18 00:35:28 DocScrutinizer, scroll up :P May 18 00:35:28 sorry, i not saw it May 18 00:35:41 Termana: [2010-05-18 02:32:54] tuliobaars_: please first post ourput of 'mount' May 18 00:35:55 umount had worked! May 18 00:36:06 oh, i think it works May 18 00:36:06 it jumps the line, its correct May 18 00:36:12 tuliobaars_: [2010-05-18 02:32:54] tuliobaars_: please first post ourput of 'mount' May 18 00:36:14 i'm triyng to make the sfdisk work May 18 00:36:15 yea, but he wants to see whats actoually mounted May 18 00:36:16 jeez May 18 00:36:19 you have to start listening man May 18 00:36:25 just type mount and paste the output May 18 00:36:28 Maemo disrupts my sleep May 18 00:36:34 MohammadAG, me too May 18 00:36:39 i don't know what is he saying! May 18 00:36:40 I lust after this os May 18 00:36:41 Tue May 18 03:36:49 IDT 2010 May 18 00:36:50 i'm not an english andvanced teacher May 18 00:36:57 kamui, wtf are you talking about - he wants to repartition his SD card, not see whats mounted May 18 00:36:58 * DocScrutinizer sighs and goes back to some less demanding stuff May 18 00:37:07 termana, DOC wants to see May 18 00:37:08 sorry May 18 00:37:08 * MohammadAG gives DocScrutinizer another cup of coffee May 18 00:37:16 if iit was ACTUALLY unmounted! May 18 00:37:22 don't make me exclaim you jerks May 18 00:37:32 ! May 18 00:37:33 kamui, EXCLAIM May 18 00:37:35 * kamui also goes back to something less challenging May 18 00:37:43 it worked! just the mmcblk1p1 is shoowed May 18 00:37:49 Im going outside to smoke a cuban May 18 00:37:58 tuliobaars_, which device are you on exactly? May 18 00:38:02 sorry for the stupidy, May 18 00:38:05 N810 May 18 00:38:12 Oh May 18 00:38:21 thought you were repartitioning the eMMC on the N900 May 18 00:38:29 anunakin is form my country! (i little of patriotism) May 18 00:38:45 no, i can't afford that (yet) May 18 00:38:57 -f [or --force]: do what I say, even if it is stupid LOL May 18 00:39:04 now if we could put this kind of collaborative effort into porting a proper image display app May 18 00:39:26 10 bucks says he could have accomplished his goal with a chroot mount May 18 00:39:36 and that the last 30 minutes were a waste of time May 18 00:39:37 I was porting cups, but it threw an error while making and I rm -rf'd the working directory May 18 00:39:53 ha ha, sounds like me and like 30 projects MohammadAG May 18 00:39:54 yeah I give up too easily sometimes May 18 00:40:00 lol May 18 00:40:01 lol me too May 18 00:40:04 unless I REALLY want it May 18 00:40:05 like blender May 18 00:40:21 -f worked for me May 18 00:40:33 shoud i reboot after this? May 18 00:40:39 well May 18 00:40:44 wouldn't that remount? May 18 00:40:45 your mount table hasn't been altered May 18 00:40:50 so that would undo all you went through May 18 00:40:54 up till this point May 18 00:40:56 xubuntu fits on the 2GB internal n80 card? May 18 00:41:00 please, what was the point of all this May 18 00:41:11 kamui, which was what? unmount his sd card :P May 18 00:41:17 yes May 18 00:41:22 mount loop /dev/kamui /dev/null May 18 00:41:25 and then mount the alternate device May 18 00:41:33 "all you went through" - AKA not much May 18 00:41:38 i umunted and partiotined, i reboot or no ? May 18 00:41:55 why May 18 00:41:55 tuliobaars_, what does the tutorial say to do after you have partitioned May 18 00:41:58 maybe you and I haven't been watching the same last 30 minutes May 18 00:42:01 when did he repartition May 18 00:42:07 no idea May 18 00:42:09 oh well, you guys have this May 18 00:42:11 kamui, obviously you just haven't been watching May 18 00:42:13 it was entertaining May 18 00:42:14 :P May 18 00:42:19 reboot, but some people are saynd to no! May 18 00:42:22 termana, I drifted in and out May 18 00:42:29 sorry! May 18 00:42:33 tuliobaars_, link me to the tutorial May 18 00:42:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27735 May 18 00:43:37 tuliobaars_, your under step 1 May 18 00:43:41 but, i have not an 4GB+ sd card, so i planned to install xubuntu in place of ubuntu May 18 00:43:43 It says nothing about rebooting May 18 00:44:01 now i am in step 2 May 18 00:44:30 tuliobaars_, give me the output of typing mount May 18 00:44:56 actually nevermind that May 18 00:45:02 reboot it May 18 00:45:54 dev/mmcblk0p1 and 1p1 May 18 00:46:07 mmc1 and mmc2, May 18 00:46:15 tuliobaars_, reboot the device May 18 00:46:22 so the partiotion doesn't work? May 18 00:46:27 i've rebooted May 18 00:46:29 ok May 18 00:46:36 tuliobaars_, as root type this May 18 00:46:41 cd /dev May 18 00:46:48 and then May 18 00:46:57 ls? May 18 00:46:58 ls -la | grep mmcblk May 18 00:47:08 or ls mmcblk* May 18 00:47:16 doesn't really matter May 18 00:47:45 it opened a lot of things! May 18 00:47:53 opened a lot of things? May 18 00:48:03 a lot of results May 18 00:48:07 do you mean it DISPLAYED a lot of things May 18 00:48:09 blk0 May 18 00:48:15 blk0p1... May 18 00:48:22 blk1p3 May 18 00:48:27 blk1 May 18 00:48:32 blk1p2 May 18 00:48:36 blk1p1 May 18 00:49:08 weird arrangement May 18 00:49:11 sorry, my english is worst than my computer skills.... May 18 00:49:24 (yep, it can be) May 18 00:49:27 tuliobaars_, theres no blk0p2 May 18 00:49:31 ? May 18 00:49:39 no May 18 00:49:42 i never knew May 18 00:49:45 that mako died May 18 00:49:48 :'( May 18 00:50:11 tuliobaars_, when you did sfdisk did you do it to /dev/mmcblk0 or /dev/mmcblk1 ? May 18 00:50:31 It looks like you did it to blk1 May 18 00:50:43 blk0 May 18 00:50:55 likein the tutorial May 18 00:51:18 tuliobaars_, can I ask a question May 18 00:51:24 sure May 18 00:51:25 how big is your SD Card? May 18 00:51:44 2GB internal 2GB external May 18 00:52:06 im looking for a bigger, but i can't afford that in moment May 18 00:52:35 anyways I'm off May 18 00:52:37 tuliobaars_, 2GB internal... don't you have an n810? I wouldn't be playing with the partitioning of the n810s internal card May 18 00:52:49 why? May 18 00:52:51 or rather eMMC May 18 00:53:28 i've cloned to internal and afetr to external, whares the problem? (cloned the os) May 18 00:54:05 tuliobaars_, an external card you can always fix with a computer or just replace - you can't fix/replace the eMMC if you end up in a state where you partitioned wrong and can't fix it etc. May 18 00:55:07 oh...but...neither on gparted? May 18 00:55:47 that's not good.... May 18 00:56:02 Well, I mean it could probably be fixed by someone that knows what they are doing. But, you said you have low computer skills May 18 00:56:14 but in the tutorial whas the intenal May 18 00:56:20 guys do you know how to enlarge debian-squeeze.img.ext2 ? May 18 00:56:59 I already ran resize2fs and updated busybox ... now it is 4GB long ... however when i chroot to it is still says same size as before ... do I need to make something notify that fs ? May 18 00:57:01 or what ? May 18 00:57:02 but i know how to falsh the kernel, how to install a rootfs....that is enough? May 18 00:57:11 tuliobaars_, right, but I think the tutorial was made with the n800 in mind and probably with people with intermediate computer knowledge in mind May 18 00:57:26 either way, I will have to throttle B-man|N900 :P May 18 00:58:00 i'm completly responsably for waht i doing May 18 00:58:33 if i brick it, it's my fault. But thanks for the care, Termana May 18 00:58:53 Termana, how should i continue this? May 18 00:59:12 tuliobaars_, start from the start - root up, and follow exactly what the tutorial tells you May 18 00:59:45 Forget everything we told you to do so far - tell us if you have the issue again May 18 00:59:50 But follow the tutorial May 18 01:00:37 ok May 18 01:00:40 thanks May 18 01:00:43 a lot May 18 01:00:55 Just do a plain unmount rather than a force unmount or lazy unmount (so just do umount /dev/mmcblk0p1) at the start of the tutorial May 18 01:01:05 if it comes with any errors messages, I'm still here for a while :P May 18 01:02:40 so people, thanks for the help, i have go to sleep! You're better than the maemo forum May 18 01:03:08 good night tuliobaars_ May 18 01:03:13 around 2:00pm GMT i will be here again May 18 01:03:15 thanks May 18 01:03:23 [2010-05-18 02:44:30] tuliobaars_, give me the output of typing mount May 18 01:03:26 MUHAHA May 18 01:03:30 Good night people (or afternoon May 18 01:03:38 DocScrutinizer, shut up you :P May 18 01:03:39 bye May 18 01:03:46 thanks termana May 18 01:03:53 * Termana pokes DocScrutinizer with a stick May 18 01:04:14 hehe, buye bye May 18 01:05:28 DocScrutinizer, think he scared you all away. I guess the half hour before I came of unmounting probably didn't help that May 18 01:07:59 actually it was him who scared me away the very least May 18 01:08:46 it was 20 mad nerds jumping in with ever more brillinat advice that scared me away May 18 01:09:47 "ooh, unmount?! thought it was mount that failed" "fsck, fsck, FSCK!!" May 18 01:11:39 just missing somebody says "eboot!" May 18 01:11:48 reboot even May 18 01:12:03 DocScrutinizer, just for interests say, I don't think that was 20 mad nerds that said the first two statements. May 18 01:12:05 ooh wait, somebody actually did May 18 01:12:09 I think that was just lcuk May 18 01:12:10 :P May 18 01:12:20 sake* May 18 01:13:16 DocScrutinizer, right, I told him to reboot when he said he finished partitioning. A) The tutorial said to do it B) If he partitioned right blk0p2 and blk0p3 should have shown up after a reboot May 18 01:13:47 If someone said it in another context, maybe it was an ex-Windows administrator? May 18 01:14:08 :P May 18 01:20:12 * lcuk did say those things May 18 01:20:24 * lcuk hangs head in shame and goes to bed May 18 01:21:25 that's weird... why is my vertsms starts up at portrait, but then it switches back to landscape, even i have the phone hold portrait? May 18 01:25:37 http://blogs.igalia.com/vjaquez/2010/05/17/my-dsp-related-activities/ May 18 01:25:40 oooh - cool! May 18 01:25:52 * SpeedEvil excersizes his thumb. May 18 01:26:33 It's thumbs down to let the poster live? May 18 01:35:44 * kamui hugs lcuk May 18 01:35:55 don't worry lcuk I was there to catch you :-D May 18 01:41:30 haha May 18 01:49:08 so, i made an app, and installed it on my phone. is there any reason why the app would show up in the scratchbox, but not on the screen on an actual phone? May 18 01:50:33 oahubill: yes May 18 01:51:11 to clarify, i installed it successfully, and get proper terminal output. the gtk window i made is not showing up May 18 01:52:18 does it complain about not being able to open the terminal? May 18 01:52:28 I would try DISPLAY=mydesktop:0 May 18 01:52:35 and see if it showed up on that May 18 01:52:48 usally 0:0 May 18 01:52:55 or run-standalone May 18 01:52:59 yes, that May 18 01:53:18 (at least for me) May 18 01:53:40 ill try those May 18 01:56:07 well, neither of those DISPLAY variables worked for me May 18 01:57:51 SpeedEvil: it doesnt complain about not being able to open the terminal... May 18 01:58:18 do you have xephyr up and running? May 18 01:58:45 well, it works in xephyr. it doesnt work on the phone May 18 01:59:30 hmm May 18 02:00:13 does anyone know what that webcam and camera icon app is? http://www.techhail.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Load-applet-for-Maemo-Mobiles.png May 18 02:00:23 havemyou tried running it directly on the phone without scratchbox? May 18 02:00:31 * have you May 18 02:01:27 i'm using a hildon_window, not a hildon_stackable_window, could that have an effect? May 18 02:02:14 i don't think it should May 18 02:05:07 is there any way to use the n900 as an external display? May 18 02:05:44 oahubill: could you show me the output directly via pastebin? May 18 02:06:33 hajmola: yes - I've had desktop firefox showing ont he display May 18 02:06:37 the output of? May 18 02:08:48 SpeedEvil, I mean, i can ssh -X and run firefox from my desktop, but is there a way i can run a program from my desktop but tell it to display on the n900 May 18 02:09:03 so I don't have to actually use the n900 May 18 02:09:08 's keyboard May 18 02:09:50 b-man|GFT: i am trying to run it directly on the phone. the app works in scratchbox May 18 02:11:12 hmm May 18 02:11:57 unsure, never tried that. May 18 02:29:34 well, maybe i'll throw an email out on the dev lists, see if anyone has an idea May 18 02:42:47 hajmola: try Xdmx May 18 02:44:45 I don't know if it requires xdmx on both the pc and the n900, but IIRc It only required xdmx on your desktop and can use other network displays with appropriate remote client permissions May 18 02:45:05 kamui: how's the gles wrapper going? May 18 02:45:14 I've only seen it in action, so I can't say for sure, but its probably worth a look if you REALLY want to span your deskspace onto the N900 May 18 02:45:21 dmj726, totally stopped May 18 02:45:29 i haven't tried, but i assume if you disable the nolisten on tcp on the n900's Xorg, then you could just set DISPLAY= May 18 02:45:33 that's too bad May 18 02:45:36 I just hit a wall May 18 02:45:39 its not OVER May 18 02:45:50 I just have to go back and learn some basic shit before I can proceed May 18 02:45:54 okay May 18 02:45:56 opengl isn't very hard I've learend May 18 02:45:58 learned May 18 02:46:15 but Im not at the point yet where I can write the wrapper May 18 02:46:38 right now, my code has dozens of errors and Im now learning what Im missing in the aPi May 18 02:46:44 not as easy as I had hoped May 18 02:46:45 * dmj726 has been quite excited about your work, so please forgive my inquisitiveness May 18 02:47:00 no need to be apologetic, Im excited too May 18 02:47:14 I figure if I pull it off before anyone else, Ill be forever imortalized :-D May 18 02:47:24 Don't worry, you will be! May 18 02:47:59 Have you seen the Durian trailer? May 18 02:48:36 no May 18 02:48:53 http://durian.blender.org/news/sintel-teaser/ May 18 02:49:03 a worthwhile minute of your time May 18 02:50:12 made in blender? May 18 02:50:14 alone? May 18 02:50:15 wow May 18 02:50:36 yep May 18 02:50:48 It's the Blender Foundation's current project May 18 02:52:06 ok brudda, Its about time for me to be hitting the ol' dusty trail May 18 02:52:10 and get my ass to bed :) May 18 02:52:35 okay...I'm pretty impressed by the trailer too. May 18 02:52:42 ...and they have 2 more months! May 18 02:56:28 again me May 18 02:56:42 can someone help me a little bit please ? May 18 02:56:53 it is about easy debian thing May 18 02:57:57 I just want to make the ext2 file bigger, and when I mount it I still get 1.3G instead of 4G May 18 02:57:59 help May 18 02:58:01 please May 18 02:58:30 how did you made it biggier? May 18 02:58:56 resize2fs May 18 02:59:34 and why ext2? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 18 02:59:57 2010