**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 14 02:59:57 2010
Jun 14 03:00:33 <DocScrutinizer> damn, http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/leds/leds-lp5523.c  is a shame
Jun 14 03:01:20 <DocScrutinizer> guess I can't keep from fixing it, as it's really a pity
Jun 14 03:04:01 <SpeedEvil> Getting started hacking on stuff - even if it's not related directly isn't bad
Jun 14 03:09:09 <DocScrutinizer> yep.
Jun 14 03:11:26 <DocScrutinizer> and it's a shame how they waste 96 steps of programming storage, by simply assigning fixed addresses and restricting prog length for a engine to 16
Jun 14 03:12:23 <DocScrutinizer> incredibly uninspired code
Jun 14 03:13:26 <DocScrutinizer> guess I can fix that so we keep API compatibility
Jun 14 03:14:34 <DocScrutinizer> obviously another case of "we don't need that"
Jun 14 03:19:34 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: btw I fixed the references mentioned above
Jun 14 03:19:48 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, end result?
Jun 14 03:20:11 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: err? of the "fixing"?
Jun 14 03:20:33 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Jun 14 03:21:17 <DocScrutinizer> wiki was ok, just a tiny line at end of that page was missing:  <ref />
Jun 14 03:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> or something like that
Jun 14 03:22:11 <SpeedEvil> I'm planning another pass over the hardware pages tomorrow, adding data from modules.
Jun 14 03:22:19 <SpeedEvil> kernel modules
Jun 14 03:22:43 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Jun 14 03:23:52 <DocScrutinizer> that <reference /> bit is one weird piece of wiki formating magic O.O
Jun 14 03:25:02 <GeneralAntilles> DocScrutinizer, no, driver improvements
Jun 14 03:26:10 <pupnik> happy thoughts, happy thoughts
Jun 14 03:26:18 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: lol, I've not even started editing. The result will be you can at very least use 32 steps of program text per indicator LED flashing engine
Jun 14 03:26:35 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, cool
Jun 14 03:26:56 <DocScrutinizer> instead of the hardcoded arbitrary limit of 16 we have now
Jun 14 03:27:32 <DocScrutinizer> well maybe 31, as I need three steps for the muxer tables
Jun 14 03:33:57 <DocScrutinizer> GeneralAntilles: the LP5521 in N810 had 16 steps per engine, fixed. The LP5523 in N900 has 6 pages of 16, forming a uniform storage area of 96, which you can partition as you like to point each engine to the start address of its program. Alas the driver developer was 'too lazy' to deal with that awkward paging, and hardcoded a dedicated page for each of the 3 engines, wasting the remaining 3 pages worth of storage
Jun 14 03:38:43 * Stskeeps ponders idly if any sandwich stores are open
Jun 14 03:39:22 * pupnik has extra frozen pizzas
Jun 14 03:39:32 <DocScrutinizer> if only I could patch mce as well, to free up engine3 from the idiotic task to do a 250ms ramp on dimming the kbd backlight. Damn that's really simpler and easier done in sw in mce, rather than sending a program for it to an engine in LP5523 and thus exclusively allocating the resource
Jun 14 03:41:26 * pupnik looks nervously over at DocScrutinizer's laboratory
Jun 14 03:42:30 <DocScrutinizer> but probably the developer wasn't aware you can control the brightness of each single led without using an engine running a program to do that
Jun 14 03:45:45 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, but I could patch the driver to take care of that in sw (aka on SoC CPU)
Jun 14 03:46:14 * pupnik stares bovinely
Jun 14 03:48:06 <rafaelbrandao> greetings. does anyone know if there is any way I can install libusb-1.0 on a nokia n810?
Jun 14 03:48:56 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: we got /sys/*/*/engine1 engine2 and engine3. Engine3 is used by mce to dim the kbd backlight LEDs. If I change the code servicing the engine3 sysnode, so it does what mce *should* do, then the real hw engine3 is free and could show up as /sys/*/*/engine3_now_for_real
Jun 14 03:50:08 <DocScrutinizer> ugly but should work
Jun 14 03:52:08 <pupnik> that sounds crazy DocScrutinizer
Jun 14 03:52:24 <DocScrutinizer> yes, I know. Probably I *am* crazy
Jun 14 03:52:47 <SpeedEvil> So you can do RGB LED patterns/
Jun 14 03:52:53 <DocScrutinizer> yep!!!
Jun 14 03:52:58 <DocScrutinizer> rainbow
Jun 14 03:53:47 <SpeedEvil> Or map to the keyboard LEDs in groups of three, and do a running light display with no CPU.
Jun 14 03:54:59 <DocScrutinizer> I just can't stand it when poorly written software wastes hw capabilities just because somebody was too lazy to think of a better more clean and less kinky way to implement things
Jun 14 03:55:18 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: also possible
Jun 14 03:56:15 <DocScrutinizer> though I'm able to do this with just one engine, and a few muxer table entries
Jun 14 03:56:45 <DocScrutinizer> it's actually extremely simple
Jun 14 04:05:27 <GAN900> Platform dev. :P
Jun 14 04:25:51 <DocScrutinizer> bug #10353 :-(( OMG I'd be ashamed If I were a Nokian
Jun 14 04:25:53 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10353 result of USSD query should not be shown to user at all (If he wishes that)
Jun 14 04:30:13 <Macer> anybody know where mencoder instructions are for reencoding on the n900
Jun 14 04:30:26 <Macer> or is there some sort of mencoder front end i can use?
Jun 14 04:30:48 <Macer> copied a show over to it and just now realized its 720p
Jun 14 04:31:17 <Macer> ohl nm. found it i think
Jun 14 04:34:47 <Macer> hahaha
Jun 14 04:34:51 <Macer> 2fps
Jun 14 04:34:55 <Macer> on the n900
Jun 14 04:35:00 <Macer> not worth it
Jun 14 04:36:44 <Macer> i just reniced it.. maybe it will finish in 8 hours
Jun 14 04:36:52 <Macer> while destroying my battery
Jun 14 04:36:54 <Macer> :)
Jun 14 05:17:19 <Corsac> Stskeeps: wow, did you see the unrealircd backdoor/
Jun 14 05:17:20 <Corsac> ?
Jun 14 05:52:10 <shorter> The GPS barely works on its own - is it not meant to?
Jun 14 05:52:32 <shorter> At least in my minimal testing (waiting for sim card to arrive)
Jun 14 05:53:10 <kirma> I'd say it's an compromise in hardware-software design
Jun 14 05:53:30 <kirma> GPS receivers on phones are *meant* to be assisted, IMO
Jun 14 05:53:44 <plastun> hello! how to create TouchSelector with some columns, but show only one?
Jun 14 05:55:49 <kirma> unassisted GPS isn't so central function to phone operation that the hardware would be allowed to take lots of space for components or power, and assist is an effective solution that's available on phone by design
Jun 14 05:55:59 <kirma> too bad regarding roaming, but well...
Jun 14 05:58:00 * RST38h moos evilly
Jun 14 05:59:10 <shorter> I was hoping it wasn't just my phone kirma
Jun 14 05:59:38 <shorter> what about roaming though?
Jun 14 06:03:33 <kirma> roaming costs money, and assist uses data :)
Jun 14 06:04:10 <shorter> kirma, oh so you mean the ability to use GPS always without spending; yeah good idea
Jun 14 06:04:15 <kirma> but anyway, if you don't get GPS lock with assist outdoors, then you have a problem. otherwise it's probably ok.
Jun 14 06:05:29 <kirma> I've also observed excess unassisted lock times on e90 and n900... situation of course doesn't get any better if you're on the move, or in even slightly obstructed environment
Jun 14 06:07:27 <kirma> assist solves pretty much all of those issues with a rather small amount of traffic (although if it's done repetitively, that might cause noticeable numbers on roaming)
Jun 14 06:42:26 <shorter> uh, how do you line up icons on the desktop?
Jun 14 06:46:02 <DocScrutinizer> tweakr - enable gridsnap
Jun 14 06:46:39 <DocScrutinizer> or just a problem to move them?
Jun 14 06:51:27 <shorter> what causes a bunch of "failed cataloges"?
Jun 14 06:51:31 <shorter> are the repositories down?
Jun 14 06:54:53 <valdyn> shorter: or your net connection was down
Jun 14 06:58:25 <shorter> worry sleepy eyes = newbness
Jun 14 06:58:34 <dotblank> Is /tmp a good place to store temporary files during run time or something like ~/.tmp more usefull
Jun 14 07:02:23 <mece> hey
Jun 14 07:03:39 <timeless_mbp> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fyle.fi%2Fuutiset%2Fkotimaa%2F2010%2F06%2Flangattoman_verkon_lainaaminen_tulossa_lailliseksi_1752259.html&sl=fi&tl=en
Jun 14 07:04:57 <stonda> §
Jun 14 07:05:03 <stonda> whoops :P
Jun 14 07:06:51 <mece> timeless_mbp, well that's actually good news.
Jun 14 07:07:29 <shorter> damn /home getting full and only been using for 2 days
Jun 14 07:07:48 <shorter> give me a linux computer and I'll use a linux computer
Jun 14 07:07:49 <shorter> heh
Jun 14 07:09:05 <mece> shorter, on N900?
Jun 14 07:12:17 <MohammadAG51> wtf!
Jun 14 07:12:33 <shorter> yes
Jun 14 07:12:54 <shorter> do you guys have strategies to avoid root getting full?
Jun 14 07:13:00 <MohammadAG51> tracker runs at the worst times, when you're installing a damn distro, load was 15+
Jun 14 07:13:12 <MohammadAG51> yeah, it's called...
Jun 14 07:13:20 <MohammadAG51> ~optification
Jun 14 07:13:30 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs
Jun 14 07:13:58 <shorter> how much of your home directories have you used?
Jun 14 07:14:19 <MohammadAG51> a lot, reached 36MBs (free) once
Jun 14 07:14:39 <shorter> forgot what's default?
Jun 14 07:14:46 <MohammadAG51> 2GB
Jun 14 07:14:57 <shorter> none of that is taken up by default?
Jun 14 07:15:22 <shorter> wonder how I used 1.6GB!?
Jun 14 07:15:31 <shorter> odd
Jun 14 07:21:07 <shorter> it is funny how much more space a 3gb folder (on reiserfs on my box) will take up on a vfat partition (~5gb on the n900)
Jun 14 07:21:36 <bef0rd> wow opera 10 looks pretty nice on diablo
Jun 14 07:26:05 <mece> heey.. irrilict has an gles port..
Jun 14 07:26:37 <hrw> morning
Jun 14 07:26:43 <mece> mornin hrw
Jun 14 07:32:41 <RST38h> http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/14/nokia-n9-meego-slider-leaks-in-early-video-tease/
Jun 14 07:32:44 <RST38h> hohoho
Jun 14 07:33:01 <PolarFox> "leaks" :D
Jun 14 07:34:52 <RST38h> "NASA has begun to wind down construction of the rockets and spacecraft that were to have taken astronauts back to the Moon Á
Jun 14 07:37:04 <RST38h> A arge [lithium] deposit worth an estimated $1 trillion has been discovered in Afghanistan
Jun 14 07:37:26 <RST38h> (can they just pour water there? =))
Jun 14 07:46:20 <asj_> do I pay $80 extra for a preffered seat with extra leg room on a 15 hour flight?
Jun 14 07:47:20 <lcuk> asj_, only if that seat is in the cockpit
Jun 14 07:47:28 <asj_> lcuk: lol
Jun 14 07:47:40 <asj_> the jump seat isn't comfy and they don't allow that anymore
Jun 14 07:48:10 <lcuk> ask for a seat with air conditioning
Jun 14 07:48:23 <lcuk> perhaps an external
Jun 14 07:48:27 <asj_> for 15 hours at 40,000 feet I want heat
Jun 14 07:48:36 <Surfa> asj_, depends on how tall you are
Jun 14 07:48:43 <asj_> Surfa: I'm short
Jun 14 07:48:56 <Surfa> then you probably won't pay :)
Jun 14 07:49:04 <asj_> done :)
Jun 14 07:49:35 <Surfa> long haul planes typically have more than enough leg room for shorties like me
Jun 14 07:49:52 <asj_> I haven't flown Air Canada in wow, probably 15 years, we'll see how they do
Jun 14 07:50:49 <asj_> Surfa: mmm, I'm guessing unless it's business class I wouldn't notice, I want one of those seats they advertise on tv with Emerates, sadly I don't have 15k to spent on a trip
Jun 14 07:52:13 <Surfa> :) sas has that economy extra class that's quite ok.. it has some other benefits too..
Jun 14 07:52:36 <Surfa> can't remember what and how much it costs
Jun 14 07:53:17 <asj_> heh, this is one of the cheapest roundtrip and shortest total time flights to North American I've done, which speaks well of Air Canada
Jun 14 07:58:55 <shorter> asj_ any tips, I'm trying to find good ticket prices
Jun 14 07:59:04 <asj_> shorter: to/from?
Jun 14 07:59:06 <shorter> us -> europe
Jun 14 07:59:14 <shorter> need specifics?
Jun 14 07:59:27 <asj_> shorter: nope, there's a seat sale with AC, but that's not going to help to the US...probably...
Jun 14 07:59:51 <asj_> shorter: worth a try though, just plus something into aircanada.ca and see what pops up...who knows
Jun 14 08:00:05 <shorter> yeah, I need round trip for about 2 months from abut july to about aug30... so long as it is cheap enough I don't care where in europe it lands
Jun 14 08:00:09 <asj_> unless you object to changing planes in toronto
Jun 14 08:00:32 <shorter> I found one for 1100$, whadya think?
Jun 14 08:01:56 <asj_> I would expect better than that....
Jun 14 08:02:17 <shorter> that is, round trip
Jun 14 08:02:29 <shorter> am I supposed to enter a code for teh air canada site?
Jun 14 08:02:33 <shorter> same price there actually
Jun 14 08:03:03 <shorter> ah found th codes
Jun 14 08:03:09 <asj_> hwh ok
Jun 14 08:03:19 <shorter> im only 1 passenger so it wouldnt count anyhwo
Jun 14 08:03:40 <asj_> doh
Jun 14 08:03:45 <shorter> yep
Jun 14 08:03:58 <shorter> how often to ultra-travelers give away free miles or wahtever?
Jun 14 08:04:06 <shorter> I don't know about all this travel stuff as I rarely get to fly
Jun 14 08:04:28 <asj_> I never have luck with airmiles, they never have seats open for me and I have a lot of airmiles waiting to be used...
Jun 14 08:04:32 <shorter> one reason i got the n900 actually was for compatibility to gsm in EU
Jun 14 08:04:43 <asj_> it'll do 3g in EU...
Jun 14 08:05:03 <shorter> yep, I'm just looking for the best options now
Jun 14 08:05:22 <shorter> buying a sim for every country I'm in vs finding some provider that roams for cheap
Jun 14 08:05:32 <mece> compiling Irrlicht opengles. I wonder what will happen. It's alpha stage apparently.
Jun 14 08:05:43 <shorter> I'm getting a prepaid tmo in the US so I don't have to pay for service in the US while im not here
Jun 14 08:06:11 <shorter> how much you have left in /home mece?
Jun 14 08:06:27 <shorter> just curious
Jun 14 08:08:35 <mece> shorter, dunno, lemme check.
Jun 14 08:09:01 <mece> shorter, 645Mb free
Jun 14 08:09:19 <mece> apparently I have a whole bunch of crap there :D
Jun 14 08:10:17 <shorter> yeah, I'm using 1.6G and I've only had this thing for 2 days
Jun 14 08:10:18 <shorter> not sure how
Jun 14 08:10:33 <shorter> got sloppy damn fast
Jun 14 08:10:49 <shorter> I don't think it would have to do with the crap I transfered over into MyDocs
Jun 14 08:11:07 <shorter> though, the files seem to take nearly twice as much space on vfat as they did on my reiserfs partition for some reason
Jun 14 08:11:48 <mece> shorter, what have you installed then?
Jun 14 08:12:01 <shorter> some apps, uh
Jun 14 08:12:05 <shorter> I guess that's it?
Jun 14 08:12:07 <mece> :)
Jun 14 08:12:18 <shorter> yeah, I don't know how a few dozen apps from the manager would be that much....
Jun 14 08:12:24 <mece> wow..
Jun 14 08:12:32 <mece> Flight Gear Urban Effect. Pretty epic!
Jun 14 08:12:34 <shorter> do people usually not use tha many?
Jun 14 08:12:39 <shorter> no games actuallly
Jun 14 08:12:52 <mece> as open source games go, flight gear is pretty amazing.
Jun 14 08:12:54 <mece> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPtd6Np3u8Q
Jun 14 08:13:13 <shorter> I'll get q3 on here sometime soon
Jun 14 08:13:23 <shorter> can't wait till they have usb host support or whatever you call it
Jun 14 08:13:31 <shorter> for flash drives, mice, and keyboards (usb)
Jun 14 08:14:32 <mece> shorter, for reals! I have no interest in the q's currently, but mouse + tv-out == win :D
Jun 14 08:14:51 <shorter> yeah, not sure about the status, but the possibilities are thrilling
Jun 14 08:15:03 <shorter> could hook up that hardcore USB GPS puck I have
Jun 14 08:15:08 <shorter> etc
Jun 14 08:16:41 <shorter> I don't plan on actually playing q3 on the thing, but I'll just be thrilled as shit to have the game that got me into computing ('cause I had to overclock my 133mhz computer back in the day to play it) in my fookin pocket!
Jun 14 08:18:01 <shorter> btw, mece, do you update everything with extra testing repo disabled?
Jun 14 08:19:34 <mece> shorter, you mean apt-get upgrade?
Jun 14 08:20:00 <shorter> I'm using the app manager still
Jun 14 08:20:07 <shorter> heh
Jun 14 08:21:53 <mece> shorter, me too. I don't feel like using upgrade.
Jun 14 08:21:58 <mece> well I do use apt-get install
Jun 14 08:22:14 <mece> but not apt-get upgrade
Jun 14 08:22:33 <shorter> so when I enable and disable repos in the app manager does it affect the repos used in apt-get?
Jun 14 08:25:24 <mece> shorter, yes.
Jun 14 08:26:29 <mece> Irrlicht compiles nicely in scratchbox.. interesting.
Jun 14 08:26:37 <mece> ok so.. who the hell do I install this lib?
Jun 14 08:26:46 <mece> throw it in /usr/lib/ ?
Jun 14 08:27:52 <shorter> mece, after installing a whole crap load of apps - are there any optimizations I can do for all the stuff that will startup automatically?
Jun 14 08:29:55 <mece> shorter, no idea. I'm not very good at that stuff.
Jun 14 08:30:31 <mece> I'm more into dl source, compile, try, package, release :)
Jun 14 08:31:25 <Tachikoma> moin
Jun 14 08:32:35 <LiraNuna> "One reason why we have done this on this way is that at the same time we have been trying to handle opening of many currenly closed components that are needed in MeeGo and to build feasible MeeGo images for N900"
Jun 14 08:32:39 <LiraNuna> <3
Jun 14 08:36:26 <achipa> X-Fade: I see you got rid of hoops, but soccer is just too omnipresent these days :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/soccerfrenzy/1.0.2/
Jun 14 08:39:20 <DrGrov> Anyone using Ubuntu 10.04 ?
Jun 14 08:39:34 <toggles_w> DrGrov: yes doc
Jun 14 08:40:36 <DrGrov> toggles_w: have you found any good use of Ubuntu with the N900?
Jun 14 08:41:50 <toggles_w> DrGrov: you mean 10.04 on the n900? Not me, just on my desktops, I use my n900 for podcasting and like a usb stick
Jun 14 08:42:46 <mece> heh, http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_years/2010_1/windows-poor-dotnet-install.png
Jun 14 08:43:46 <DrGrov> toggles_w: no, i mean if there is any good things i can use 10.04 to help me with the n900. not installing 10.04 on n900
Jun 14 08:45:56 <toggles_w> DrGrov: VBox ose to run the dev environment, things like that http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK_Virtual_Images
Jun 14 08:46:45 <DrGrov> toggles_w: oh, good. that would be something i am looking for.
Jun 14 08:47:49 <My_PeSePe> in this chanel speak inglish or spanish ?
Jun 14 08:48:08 <DrGrov> toggles_w: is it easy to install virtualbox+
Jun 14 08:48:11 <DrGrov> toggles_w: ?
Jun 14 08:48:19 <My_PeSePe> yes
Jun 14 08:48:22 <My_PeSePe> us very easy
Jun 14 08:48:22 <toggles_w> DrGrov: yes, it's in the app center
Jun 14 08:48:42 <DrGrov> toggles_w: ok, i will go and fetch it right away. synaptic package manager?
Jun 14 08:48:54 <toggles_w> applications->ubuntu software center
Jun 14 08:49:03 <toggles_w> search for virtualbox
Jun 14 08:49:07 <DrGrov> ok
Jun 14 08:49:29 <DrGrov> i install virtualbox ose?
Jun 14 08:49:45 <DrGrov> anything else than virtualbox ose?
Jun 14 08:50:19 <DrGrov> toggles_w: should i download the VBoxGTK as well?
Jun 14 08:50:30 <DrGrov> toggles_w: and virtualbox ose?
Jun 14 08:51:11 <toggles_w> just ose
Jun 14 08:51:40 <DrGrov> ah ok
Jun 14 08:52:09 <DrGrov> i hope i get a gui frontend to ose
Jun 14 08:53:39 <DrGrov> toggles_w: ok, virtualbox ose is running. which is the image i should download?
Jun 14 08:56:33 <toggles_w> DrGrov: http://vpc-sdk.garage.maemo.org/
Jun 14 08:56:34 * timeless_mbp wonders why people favor OSE over PUEL
Jun 14 08:56:49 <DrGrov> toggles_w: thanks. i will go and fetch it right away.
Jun 14 08:59:15 <DrGrov> toggles_w: what should i do when i have it downloaded?
Jun 14 09:02:04 <toggles_w> DrGrov: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?Installation%20Instructions&id=1033&type=g
Jun 14 09:04:49 <DrGrov> toggles_w: thanks, i will give it a go later on tonight.
Jun 14 09:11:48 <Stskeeps> Corsac: yeah, i don't have anything to do with that
Jun 14 09:52:12 <marmoute> Can MicroB use the <video> tag ?
Jun 14 09:53:14 <Venemo> try it
Jun 14 09:54:41 <MohammadAG> hmm, what does platform.system() return on Windows?
Jun 14 09:54:51 <MohammadAG> (python, after importing platform)
Jun 14 09:57:28 <Jaffa> GAN900: pong
Jun 14 09:59:51 <PBeck> hi
Jun 14 10:00:03 <alterego> MohammadAG: you mean it' async?
Jun 14 10:00:24 <MohammadAG> err
Jun 14 10:00:40 <MohammadAG> no, I'm trying to detect what OS the python script's running on
Jun 14 10:00:54 <alterego> Or do you expect it to work like exec on Linux/UNIX?
Jun 14 10:01:12 <alterego> Oh,
Jun 14 10:01:30 <PBeck> perhaps anybody can help me. I have a problem with my program kfzcheck. Since my update to pr1.2 i get the following error without any code changes => *** glibc detected *** python: free(): invalid pointer: 0x004737a0 ***
Jun 14 10:01:54 <PBeck> on pr1.1 i had no problems. What has changed? Is that a python problem itself?
Jun 14 10:01:54 <alterego> PBeck: have you recompiled it? :P
Jun 14 10:02:42 <PBeck> alterego: yeah on every starting process through the python interpreter to bytecode ;)
Jun 14 10:04:48 <alterego> PBeck: interesting, and your scratchbox is up-to-date with PR1.2?
Jun 14 10:04:52 <PBeck> http://pastebin.com/ajR989kc <= thats the complete log
Jun 14 10:05:14 <PBeck> alterego: i have only tested it on the device - i develop only on the device
Jun 14 10:07:43 <alterego> Oh wait, this is a python app?
Jun 14 10:07:52 <PBeck> alterego: i dont know where the warning come from. But the warnings was not a problem on 1.1
Jun 14 10:07:55 <PBeck> alterego: yes right
Jun 14 10:10:32 <PBeck> alterego: it's in the repos perhaps you can test it
Jun 14 10:10:53 <alterego> PBeck: dunno why, can't see your paste. :/ on the N900
Jun 14 10:11:00 <alterego> Sure, what's it called?
Jun 14 10:12:33 <PBeck> ?
Jun 14 10:12:50 <PBeck> you cant see the paste?
Jun 14 10:12:55 <alterego> no :/
Jun 14 10:14:07 <alterego> oh wait, got it now.
Jun 14 10:14:22 <PBeck> i have no problems with my n900
Jun 14 10:16:44 <haj> I have... but it's mostly that it tends to get a bit slow after some time, and then it needs a reboot..
Jun 14 10:17:23 <marmoute> haj: you mean after a few month ?
Jun 14 10:17:28 <PBeck> haj: to few the pastebin entry ;)
Jun 14 10:17:34 <PBeck> *view
Jun 14 10:18:34 <haj> marmoute: after about a day.. is more like it..
Jun 14 10:20:17 <PBeck> haj: i think my uptime is around 5-14 days
Jun 14 10:23:20 <akshey> Hi, Is video calling supported on n900? By, video call I mean calling on a phone number, not through skype or gtalk.
Jun 14 10:23:36 <haj> marmoute: could be the apps I run, or Titan's kernel, though... I'm mostly using development stuff...
Jun 14 10:25:24 <haj> marmoute: I'm always running witter, dataplan monitor widget, fm transmitter widget, personal ip widget, and omweather widget.... Don't know if it could be some memory leak in those..
Jun 14 10:27:03 <alterego> akshey: 3G video calls are not supported no.
Jun 14 10:27:54 <BCMM> anyone know why? is there some kind of hardware constraint, or do they just consider it not important, or are they keeping it back to differentiate the next phone?
Jun 14 10:29:37 <alterego> BCMM: I just think they can't be bothered at the moment :)
Jun 14 10:30:16 <alterego> BCMM: It's a feature that wasn't really discussed, should be availabe in the next phone I guess.
Jun 14 10:30:30 <alterego> Not particularly popular though
Jun 14 10:30:33 <alterego> anyhow bbl
Jun 14 10:30:37 <BCMM> how does it work, anyway? is it something that could be implemented the a third party like MMS, or would it require source to some closed things?
Jun 14 10:30:46 <akshey> alterego: thanks for the answer
Jun 14 10:57:58 <alterego> BCMM: I'd be interested to know the answers to those questions myself as I don't know how video calling wroks tbh. would be nice if it was possible, I'd imagine it will be possible with MeeGo
Jun 14 11:00:02 <alterego> Also, I swear Nokia were more prompt releasing the fremantle sdk, where's the Harmattan SDK?!? :)
Jun 14 11:00:26 * SpeedEvil notes from the (way) above discussion that silent answerphone type functionality would be entirely possible.
Jun 14 11:00:56 <SpeedEvil> As if the cellmo is solely connected over a databus, you can easily ham a recorder/playback thingy in tehre.
Jun 14 11:00:56 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: are you talking about having the phone itself answer calls and take messages?
Jun 14 11:00:58 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 14 11:01:14 <BCMM> SpeedEvil: that would be really nice
Jun 14 11:01:25 <BCMM> there is a thing that i think phones should do, that i have never heard of:
Jun 14 11:01:41 <alterego> SpeedEvil: that's on my list of apps todo actually, should be pretty easy.
Jun 14 11:01:47 <BCMM> answer a call, play a message saying "i'm in a restaurant, press 1 if my parents died or something, otherwise hang up"
Jun 14 11:01:58 <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure how muhc the stack will get in the way.
Jun 14 11:02:07 <alterego> BCMM: that's a neat idea.
Jun 14 11:02:17 <SpeedEvil> I suspect you may be working in the closed source bits, or at least replacing them in major ways.
Jun 14 11:02:30 <BCMM> instantly solve the problem people leaving phones on in awkward situations in case something important happens
Jun 14 11:02:45 <alterego> Also, half way through the month, nohandset UX yet :(
Jun 14 11:03:27 <SpeedEvil> xterm isn't enough ux for you?
Jun 14 11:04:05 <crashanddie> I just have python running, and type my will directly into it, direct execution, no files, freedom.
Jun 14 11:04:18 <alterego> Heh
Jun 14 11:04:25 <crashanddie> it is the evolution of cat | gcc
Jun 14 11:04:57 <SpeedEvil> cat|gcc is for the weak!
Jun 14 11:05:05 <SpeedEvil> That reminds me.
Jun 14 11:05:18 * SpeedEvil goes back to working out why wpa_supplicant isn't linking.
Jun 14 11:05:52 <alterego> "Nokia values your opinion, please reply with SURVEY?" :D
Jun 14 11:06:01 <alterego> Weird SMS's
Jun 14 11:06:13 <BCMM> alterego: i just got that too
Jun 14 11:06:23 <alterego> :)
Jun 14 11:06:37 <BCMM> i though mass-spamming sms took longer than that...
Jun 14 11:06:41 <BCMM> unless we are actually the first two
Jun 14 11:07:12 <BCMM> anyone have any reason to believe that 84000 is actually nokia?
Jun 14 11:07:31 <BCMM> (apart from the way they know i have an n900)
Jun 14 11:07:48 <alterego> Looking at MeeGo/Maemo gitorious, lots of nice activity going on, they're certainly looing busy at least.
Jun 14 11:08:14 <alterego> BCMM: apart from that? Nope, but they're probably the only ones that would ...
Jun 14 11:08:19 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: It is
Jun 14 11:09:01 <SpeedEvil> you're in the UK alterego?
Jun 14 11:09:05 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: rather
Jun 14 11:09:21 <alterego> "MeeGo Kernel Bot" okay, maybe there aren't actually any busy devs :D
Jun 14 11:09:30 <alterego> SpeedEvil: indeed.
Jun 14 11:09:38 <Stskeeps> what, we have a kernel bot?
Jun 14 11:10:03 <alterego> Stskeeps: looks like it applys upstream patches to their tree.
Jun 14 11:10:51 <BCMM> i replied and they didn't send anything yet
Jun 14 11:10:59 <kirma> alterego: sounds suspiciously like a lure to send a specially charged message so that someone can extract profit from it
Jun 14 11:11:09 <alterego> Actually, looks like it does a bit more than that, interesting. BCMM me too, not got a reply either.
Jun 14 11:11:32 <BCMM> anyone done that survey before and know what they ask?
Jun 14 11:11:41 <alterego> I'll check my bill and see if that costed me like 50 quid :D
Jun 14 11:12:11 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10506
Jun 14 11:12:12 <povbot> Bug 10506: 'My nokia' unsubscribe attempt costs money. This is in breach of the UK regulations on premium rate texts.
Jun 14 11:12:26 <SpeedEvil> This is as I understand a premium rate text number.
Jun 14 11:12:36 <SpeedEvil> And you have not been informed about the costs.
Jun 14 11:12:40 <alterego> SpeedEvil: said local rate in the text
Jun 14 11:12:48 <SpeedEvil> It costs 10p
Jun 14 11:13:03 <SpeedEvil> this does not make it not premium in terms of the regulations as I understand it.
Jun 14 11:13:05 <alterego> ghey, not part of my inclusive texts then ...
Jun 14 11:13:28 <alterego> Why can't the susidise it or something, freakin' idiots.
Jun 14 11:13:47 <BCMM> "local sms cost" means "not included in your free texts"?
Jun 14 11:14:14 <alterego> BCMM: I don't think it means anything :P
Jun 14 11:14:31 <BCMM> i presumed it meant "normal sms cost"
Jun 14 11:14:32 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it also - SMSs from 84000 will cost you money.
Jun 14 11:14:54 <BCMM> hmm, that would anger me
Jun 14 11:15:06 <SpeedEvil> Still only 10p. But...
Jun 14 11:15:10 <SpeedEvil> See above bug
Jun 14 11:15:30 <BCMM> why are incomming messages even allowed to cost money?
Jun 14 11:15:34 <alterego> Yeah,
Jun 14 11:15:38 <BCMM> i mean, i know that happens all the time in the US
Jun 14 11:15:39 <SpeedEvil> I believe the above facts are also related to ongoing my nokia subscriptions.
Jun 14 11:16:13 <SpeedEvil> BCMM: Premium rate SMSs can. They have all sorts of regulations round them. In principle, they are required to do all sorts of things to tell you about the price
Jun 14 11:19:21 <alterego> just got the reply /
Jun 14 11:20:17 <alterego> would you recommend to a friend 0-9 :)
Jun 14 11:20:25 <alterego> answer: 0
Jun 14 11:20:48 <alterego> hah, there's no, "depends on friend" option
Jun 14 11:21:14 <PBeck> alterego: i have wrote a mail to the pymaemo list - perhaps they can help me. Thank you for your help
Jun 14 11:23:18 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
Jun 14 11:23:28 <SpeedEvil> A friend that uses linux - sure!
Jun 14 11:24:07 <alterego> Well, I think there are more aspects to it than just the Linux point.
Jun 14 11:24:10 <SpeedEvil> lipe:
Jun 14 11:24:11 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 14 11:24:15 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 14 11:37:08 <pigeon> has anyone used the share via service to upload video onto facebook?
Jun 14 11:37:28 <ghostcube> sup peoples?
Jun 14 11:37:38 <PBeck> pigeon: facebook is evil ;)
Jun 14 11:37:51 <pigeon> yeah, it is...
Jun 14 11:37:59 <ghostcube> failbook!!!
Jun 14 11:38:08 <ghostcube> :)
Jun 14 11:38:15 <Appiah> the internet is evil
Jun 14 11:38:32 <ghostcube> nah only the flash internet is evil
Jun 14 11:38:35 <ghostcube> -.-
Jun 14 11:38:35 <pigeon> anyway, it is uploaded but it just doesn't show up anywhere.
Jun 14 11:38:42 <Appiah> flash and lolcats
Jun 14 11:38:55 <ghostcube> heh
Jun 14 11:41:37 <pigeon> it's just a bit annoying there's no error messages or anything.
Jun 14 11:43:36 <flailingmonkey> ~seen mece
Jun 14 11:43:38 <infobot> mece <~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 52s ago, saying: 'heh, http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_years/2010_1/windows-poor-dotnet-install.png'.
Jun 14 11:44:09 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Jun 14 11:44:19 <timeless_mbp> i got a conflict updating mappero
Jun 14 11:44:26 <timeless_mbp> EWTF
Jun 14 11:44:33 <timeless_mbp> where do Mappero bugs go?
Jun 14 11:45:59 <flailingmonkey> no bugzilla I presume?
Jun 14 11:46:30 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemo-mapper/
Jun 14 11:46:34 <SpeedEvil> the bugzilla?
Jun 14 11:47:08 * timeless_mbp grumbles
Jun 14 11:47:10 <timeless_mbp> it uses garage
Jun 14 11:50:21 <pigeon> hmm, that's weird, for some reason from the file manager, i can't delete/move any files, the action is not there in the pop up.
Jun 14 11:50:46 <pigeon> for files on the mmc card only it seems.
Jun 14 11:51:46 <auenfx4> fat32?
Jun 14 11:51:56 <pigeon> yeah, the default.
Jun 14 11:52:14 <pigeon> i wish i could use ext2 with it auto mounted
Jun 14 11:52:50 <auenfx4> delete doesnt show up for me, copy does
Jun 14 11:53:00 <auenfx4> move doesnt show up either
Jun 14 11:53:03 <pigeon> yeah, but why?
Jun 14 11:54:21 <pigeon> i can delete if i use the top drop down menu
Jun 14 11:54:48 <auenfx4> bug 6791
Jun 14 11:54:49 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6791 "Delete" and "Move" context menu entries missing for files on memory card
Jun 14 11:54:56 <pigeon> ah
Jun 14 11:56:32 * MohammadAG slaps frals with a TypeError: run() takes no arguments (1 given)
Jun 14 11:56:42 <vldcnst> X-Fade: here?
Jun 14 11:59:11 <mintux1> sometimes when i open a image and rotae 90 degree my image rotate but sometimes not.how can i open picture always rotate when phone rotate?
Jun 14 12:00:34 <alterego> God, why isn't mafw documented ... at all, I can't find any api docs.
Jun 14 12:06:02 <mintux1>  no soulotion
Jun 14 12:09:28 <plastun> how to make each row of TouchSelector multilined? couse my text doesnt fit
Jun 14 12:10:04 <SpeedEvil> I assume
Jun 14 12:10:10 <SpeedEvil> \n in the string doesn't work
Jun 14 12:10:53 <plastun> \n is not good way, I don't know real text length and row width
Jun 14 12:11:15 <mintux1> why photo sometimes rotate with rotate phone sometimes not?
Jun 14 12:13:08 <Appiah> bad sensor perhaps?
Jun 14 12:14:35 <mintux1> no my phone sensor works correctly in game in dial but in photo viewer i dont know how open image that can be rotate is it image viewer bug?
Jun 14 12:30:45 * Mece is very impressed how god my n900 is for watching the world cup. thanks yle for that.
Jun 14 12:31:57 <flailingmonkey> hey mece. what ever happened with your filemanager
Jun 14 12:33:07 <Mece> oh, it's somewhere.. search the irc history for hedwerks and you will find the url
Jun 14 12:33:57 <Venemo> hey guys
Jun 14 12:34:01 <joga> Mece: thru areena?
Jun 14 12:34:12 <Venemo> I'm looking for someone who has some knowledge about X and Hildon
Jun 14 12:34:28 <GeneralAntilles> The N9 has Android touch buttons. . . .
Jun 14 12:34:30 <vldcnst> Mece: hows the quality?
Jun 14 12:34:31 <joga> Venemo: many have but it's better to ask a specific question for them to react...
Jun 14 12:34:40 <Venemo> okay
Jun 14 12:34:45 <Venemo> thanks, joga :)
Jun 14 12:35:35 <Venemo> so, I'm creating a Qt application which uses X directly and creates a homescreen widget on the current desktop
Jun 14 12:35:37 <Venemo> here is the code:
Jun 14 12:35:39 <Venemo> http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/eve-watcher/trunk/source/QtExtensions/qmaemo5dynamichomescreenwidget.cpp
Jun 14 12:35:46 <Venemo> and now the issue:
Jun 14 12:35:49 <Mece> quality is excellent, framerate not perfect, but definately enough to be watchable. 10-15ish I think.
Jun 14 12:35:55 <flailingmonkey> yle won't help me here in USA :-p
Jun 14 12:36:04 <Venemo> it always adds the widgets to the current desktop
Jun 14 12:36:27 <vldcnst> Mece: can I pm you?
Jun 14 12:36:28 <Venemo> and I would like to have a way of 1) telling which desktop it is on 2) telling Hildon which desktop should it add the widget to
Jun 14 12:36:42 <Mece> vldcnst, sure
Jun 14 12:38:05 <Mece> vldcnst, what about?
Jun 14 12:38:40 <Venemo> joga: any clues?
Jun 14 12:39:28 <flailingmonkey> ah, so you are the one working on eve-watcher. I'm surprised there aren't more apps to support MMO players
Jun 14 12:40:18 <Venemo> flailingmonkey: where have you heard about eve-watcher? :P
Jun 14 12:40:48 <Appiah> eve-watcher O_o
Jun 14 12:41:09 <Appiah> is that like mEvemon ?
Jun 14 12:41:20 <Venemo> yes, only better
Jun 14 12:41:28 <Venemo> except that it is still under development
Jun 14 12:41:30 <Appiah> what can eve-watcher do that evemon cant?
Jun 14 12:41:43 <Venemo> it can put widgets on your desktop
Jun 14 12:41:50 <Venemo> for as many characters as you want :)
Jun 14 12:42:14 <Appiah> so its a eve monitor with widgets?
Jun 14 12:42:16 <pigeon> that was fun, i just turned on the world cup widget for minute or so and got a goal
Jun 14 12:42:19 <Venemo> also, it displays notifications (sms/email style) if your skill training is complete
Jun 14 12:42:23 <pigeon> own goal too :)
Jun 14 12:42:39 <Appiah> but basiclly is same functionality like Evemon/Gtkevemon
Jun 14 12:42:45 <Venemo> it will also have a skill planner
Jun 14 12:42:46 <Appiah> watching your skills  / skill planing?
Jun 14 12:42:59 <Venemo> yes, with a few personal touches :)
Jun 14 12:43:07 <Venemo> like portrait mode support and stuff like that
Jun 14 12:43:21 <Mece> wow.. I increased font in xchat, and now I can read xchat and watch football in the multitasking window!
Jun 14 12:43:27 <flailingmonkey> basically its going to be sexy
Jun 14 12:43:44 <joga> Venemo: sorry I'm on metro and haven't rally coded with qt myself
Jun 14 12:43:50 <Appiah> oki
Jun 14 12:43:58 <Appiah> So I'm gonna have 2 eve apps to try
Jun 14 12:44:00 <Appiah> yay
Jun 14 12:44:09 <Venemo> joga: you're not needed to code with qt
Jun 14 12:44:31 <Venemo> just tell me what should I tell to X to make it do what I want :)
Jun 14 12:44:44 <flailingmonkey> i can't think of any other program that adds widgets to the desktop, rather than having the user add them
Jun 14 12:44:57 <guysoft42> hi all, some developer i know wrote a maemo app in qt creator, is there a way for him to automatically package the program in a deb package?
Jun 14 12:44:59 <flailingmonkey> thats a unique feature
Jun 14 12:45:01 <joga> Venemo: sorry, hard to find out with my net buggin out every minute ;)
Jun 14 12:45:07 <Venemo> np
Jun 14 12:45:29 <BCMM> Mece: what is "the multitasking window"?
Jun 14 12:45:29 <Venemo> joga: still, if you have better circumstances, could you please contact me?
Jun 14 12:45:32 <joga> if there aren't people who know here (now), maybe forums are better
Jun 14 12:46:34 <Venemo> flailingmonkey: thanks for your support :)
Jun 14 12:48:41 <Appiah> well I'd be happy to try that app out
Jun 14 12:49:01 <Mece> BCMM, the window with the thumbnails of apps running. dunno what it's called
Jun 14 12:49:13 <BCMM> Mece: oh, the task switching thing
Jun 14 12:49:20 <Mece> ye.
Jun 14 12:49:21 <Venemo> Mece: it is called the "dashboard"
Jun 14 12:49:38 <BCMM> Mece: i thought you were saying there was a WM available to let you view more than one window at once
Jun 14 12:49:38 <Mece> right, thanks.
Jun 14 12:50:43 <SpeedEvil> li: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=714386#post714386
Jun 14 12:50:45 <SpeedEvil> oh
Jun 14 12:50:59 <SpeedEvil> nvm
Jun 14 12:51:19 <SpeedEvil> Well - if anyone wants a wpa_supplicant binary - see the aove post
Jun 14 12:51:41 <SpeedEvil> It seems the original questioner has wandered off in the intervening 1000 minutes.
Jun 14 12:52:00 <Venemo> :D
Jun 14 13:01:25 <Mece_> oops.. apparently that wlan's range was not as long as I suspected.
Jun 14 13:02:44 <Venemo> :D
Jun 14 13:03:38 <Khertan_> Hi !
Jun 14 13:03:48 <Venemo> hi
Jun 14 13:06:25 <GAN900> Jaffa, ping timeout, I think.
Jun 14 13:08:10 <Khertan_> I've a question ... some users have problems with some of my apps ... as packages are available in extras, HAM simply ignore my packages in my own repository even if package are more recent ...
Jun 14 13:08:23 <Khertan_> i didn't see many way to avoid that :
Jun 14 13:08:38 <Khertan_> 1/ Said to user to launch xterm and type : apt-get upgrade
Jun 14 13:09:00 <Khertan_> 2/ Said to user to download and install the package manually from deb
Jun 14 13:09:06 <SpeedEvil> I'm unsure if you can push newer versions of libs into extras-devel
Jun 14 13:09:13 <Mece_> flailingmonkey, did you find the filemanager lib?
Jun 14 13:10:01 <Khertan_> so i got bug report for old version and already fixed bugs
Jun 14 13:10:26 <Mece_> Khertan_, are we talking about libs?
Jun 14 13:10:40 <Khertan_> Mece_: nop
Jun 14 13:10:55 <Venemo> Khertan_: apt-get update before apt-get upgrade
Jun 14 13:11:01 <Khertan_> This happen for any packages from external repository
Jun 14 13:11:31 <Khertan_> Venemo: yes ... i know ... but ... many user didn't do apt-get upgrade and just wait for HAM update notification
Jun 14 13:11:41 <Khertan_> which didn't happen
Jun 14 13:12:13 <Mece_> Khertan_, ok. perhaps rename the package then? that would solve this.
Jun 14 13:12:21 <GAN900> Khertan_, obviously a good reason to not run and play with your toys somewhere else but help us get Extras working better. . . .
Jun 14 13:12:34 <Khertan_> GAN900: HAHA !
Jun 14 13:12:46 <Mece_> 2-0
Jun 14 13:12:58 <Khertan_> Mece_: yep ... rename is the easier solution i think
Jun 14 13:13:21 <Mece_> Khertan_, why did you move away from extras anyway?
Jun 14 13:13:54 <Khertan_> Mece_: full of bugs ... QA Testing borring me ... and things like that
Jun 14 13:14:46 <Khertan_> Mece_: try to push a non-free apps ... or try to push a fix for apps available in extras ... it s a require more time than fixing the bugs
Jun 14 13:14:59 <Khertan_> Mece_: require to found 10 users
Jun 14 13:15:15 <Khertan_> to test and report it
Jun 14 13:15:39 <Khertan_> and i got so many thumb down due to bug in web package interface
Jun 14 13:15:53 <Khertan_> that i lost any hope in this repository
Jun 14 13:20:31 <GAN900> Basically, take toys play elsewhere.
Jun 14 13:20:40 <GAN900> Did you file those bugs?
Jun 14 13:23:42 <Mece_> Khertan_, but your logic with the QA is flawed. From a users pov your apps are now at a less reliable place than even devel.
Jun 14 13:26:14 <alterego> Mece_: is that  the case with Opera too? :P
Jun 14 13:26:44 <alterego> With a one click installer link I don't think a user will care ...
Jun 14 13:27:21 <Khertan_> GAN900: yep ... still open i think
Jun 14 13:28:03 <GAN900> alterego, except for the fact that they don't need to do anything to install from Extras
Jun 14 13:28:09 <Khertan_> GAN900: everythings reported was : not fixed, won't fix, not reproductible ... so i didn't bother anymore with reporting things now
Jun 14 13:28:25 <GAN900> Nobody has bothered helping X-Fade with the development load
Jun 14 13:28:33 <GAN900> So I can't say I'm surprised.
Jun 14 13:28:47 <GAN900> alterego, do you still need a loaner?
Jun 14 13:28:55 <Khertan_> GAN900: and how can we help ?
Jun 14 13:29:13 <Khertan_> where is src ... ?
Jun 14 13:30:05 <Khertan_> Mece_: using a external third party repository could work if HAM didn't ignore package from external that are already in extras, or if my packages was removed from extras
Jun 14 13:31:03 <Khertan_> alterego: the one click installer could be HAM ... if my packages wasn't in Extras ;)
Jun 14 13:31:07 <Khertan_> circling
Jun 14 13:32:04 <alterego> GAN900: No, I got a device in the end. Why have you heard any news?
Jun 14 13:32:04 <Khertan_> s/circling/looping
Jun 14 13:32:28 <GAN900> Khertan_, Garage
Jun 14 13:32:53 <GAN900> alterego, no, but the queue is moving, your name is on it.
Jun 14 13:33:02 <GAN900> I sent you an email two weeks ago about it.
Jun 14 13:33:18 <Khertan_> GAN900: garage or my own website is the same ...
Jun 14 13:33:37 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: Any progress on tracking numbers, or ... ?
Jun 14 13:34:14 <alterego> GAN900: ah, okay, I'll remove my name then :)
Jun 14 13:37:55 <Razzo78> hi!
Jun 14 13:39:23 <Razzo78> anyone know when will come new applications on ovi store
Jun 14 13:39:38 <Khertan_> Hum ... December 2045
Jun 14 13:40:43 <Razzo78> so soon?
Jun 14 13:40:45 <Khertan_> GAN900: So did you suggest me to recreate an garage account and ask right again for uploading to devel then flood bugs.maemo.org and after ask for right to help to debug things ?
Jun 14 13:40:58 <Khertan_> Razzo78: maybe a year latter ...
Jun 14 13:41:39 <Khertan_> Razzo78: only a few publisher can pusblish app to ovistore ... it s not open to all developpers ... so there is few chance to see many new apps on it
Jun 14 13:41:59 <Razzo78> but if the world ends in 2010 ..
Jun 14 13:42:04 <Razzo78> 2012
Jun 14 13:42:22 <Khertan_> but you will see many new apps in the community repository i think
Jun 14 13:42:30 <Khertan_> (#extras)
Jun 14 13:42:40 <flailingmonkey> do we know which Nokian(s) manage Ovi Store? I have a feeling Maemo (and in the future, Meego) influence is very weak there
Jun 14 13:42:41 <jacekowski> it would be very evil to create alternative to ovi store
Jun 14 13:42:45 <SpeedEvil> Anyone can publish to ovi store.
Jun 14 13:42:49 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it.
Jun 14 13:42:59 <SpeedEvil> However, the process is not easy, or perhaps cheap
Jun 14 13:43:10 <hardaker> I really really wish that they would have an OVI store that wasn't HTML based...  sigh...
Jun 14 13:43:24 <flailingmonkey> Offscreen is like 75% of ovi store :-(
Jun 14 13:43:49 <Khertan_> SpeedEvil: you can't until you didn't have a VAT
Jun 14 13:43:54 <Khertan_> SpeedEvil: so not everyone
Jun 14 13:43:54 <flailingmonkey> I also wish that HAM allowed ratings, comments and bug ticket creation
Jun 14 13:44:04 <Khertan_> SpeedEvil: you can't until you have a VAT
Jun 14 13:44:20 <SpeedEvil> Anyone can have a VAT number.
Jun 14 13:44:30 <flailingmonkey> and some damn screenshots
Jun 14 13:44:31 <SpeedEvil> I diddn't say it was free to set it up.
Jun 14 13:44:34 <Khertan_> SpeedEvil: yep ... require you to create a company
Jun 14 13:44:43 <SpeedEvil> Setting up a small company is generally not onerous.
Jun 14 13:44:43 <Khertan_> but not all company have a vat
Jun 14 13:45:05 <jacekowski> Khertan_: in UK it's couple phone calls
Jun 14 13:45:16 <Khertan_> jacekowski: in france it s 10 000 euros
Jun 14 13:45:21 <alterego> in England, most companies bringing in less than 50k are not VAT registered.
Jun 14 13:45:24 <jacekowski> Khertan_: WTF?
Jun 14 13:45:28 <Khertan_> 8000 to be exact
Jun 14 13:45:38 <jacekowski> Khertan_: it's free here, and you don't have to pay anything for a year
Jun 14 13:45:39 <Khertan_> sarl and sa have a vat
Jun 14 13:46:01 <Khertan_> you can create you company for free in france ... but you didn't have a vat
Jun 14 13:46:16 <Robot101> alterego: that's not quite true - it's just not required. if you sell to or buy from big businesses, it's very poor form (or a waste of money) not to have a number
Jun 14 13:46:19 <jacekowski> and you are not required to do any paperwork for 3 or 6 month
Jun 14 13:46:23 <jacekowski> months*
Jun 14 13:46:45 <Khertan_> so to be short, it s not open to everyone
Jun 14 13:47:13 <alterego> Robot101: what's untrue about my statement? It's a statistic which is true ...
Jun 14 13:47:35 <alterego> Robot101: what you're saying doesn't negate what I said at all. :P
Jun 14 13:47:54 <Robot101> alterego: I think a lot of companies which intend to grow to a non-trivial size, even when <50k, would register for VAT early
Jun 14 13:47:55 <Khertan_> alterego: he didn't say it's false ... just not quite true
Jun 14 13:47:56 <Khertan_> :)
Jun 14 13:49:22 <alterego> Robot101: I don't agree, but I don't have facts to back that up, just my previous experience with start ups
Jun 14 13:50:32 <alterego> I'd image that has a lot to do with initial funding. Someone starting out on a limited budget wont fork out the 50 quid or whatever just for the sake of it.
Jun 14 13:51:28 <flailingmonkey> The Ovi store obviously wants to have paid content, so they have missed a chance to get developers into the system with free content
Jun 14 13:51:31 <Khertan_> OHOHOHOHOHO :::::: look this thread on the nokia forum : http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?201497-VAT-number-for-hobby-projects.&p=742960&viewfull=1#post742960
Jun 14 13:52:02 <nidO> taking their sweet time about it
Jun 14 13:52:15 <flailingmonkey> they should have made it easy to start, and require the extra work when you want to submit paid content
Jun 14 13:53:25 <Khertan_> they are currently working on made ovi available also to third party developpers
Jun 14 13:53:55 <flailingmonkey> who?
Jun 14 13:53:59 <alterego> sweet
Jun 14 13:53:59 <Venemo> xD
Jun 14 13:54:10 <Venemo> the question is: who cares?
Jun 14 13:54:27 <Khertan_> flailingmonkey: nokia
Jun 14 13:54:27 <Venemo> the Extras repos have everything
Jun 14 13:54:30 <alterego> Guess there's no need for the maemo community store now :)
Jun 14 13:54:32 <Khertan_> Venemo: false
Jun 14 13:54:50 <Venemo> Khertan: care to elaborate?
Jun 14 13:55:02 <alterego> Venemo: there are a fair few of us that want to develop paid for content tbh.
Jun 14 13:55:10 <nidO> Extras is a great source for community-written stuff but it completely precludes the entire commercial side of application development
Jun 14 13:55:14 <Venemo> well, that is understandable
Jun 14 13:55:17 <flailingmonkey> community store will bring more developers than ovi store, because its progress will be more transparent
Jun 14 13:55:23 <Khertan_> Venemo: maemo extra didn't have khteditor, new version of pygtkeditor, new version of pypackager
Jun 14 13:55:23 <alterego> Especially now I don't have a job :)
Jun 14 13:55:24 <nidO> for which the ovi store being non-shit is badly needed
Jun 14 13:55:24 <Venemo> still, there are ways to publish paid apps
Jun 14 13:55:34 <cehteh> is there any commercial side?
Jun 14 13:55:38 <Venemo> like Sygic
Jun 14 13:55:43 <cehteh> for the n900..
Jun 14 13:55:50 <Venemo> they did it without the Ovi Store
Jun 14 13:56:03 <cehteh> anything which gets comercially developed gets a free clone soonafter :P
Jun 14 13:56:07 <Khertan_> Venemo: i did for VectorMine too withotu Ovi Store ...
Jun 14 13:56:11 <Appiah> cehteh: really?
Jun 14 13:56:16 <flailingmonkey> ovi store had a decent chance but Nokia PR and Nokia development seem to hate each other
Jun 14 13:56:22 <cehteh> well most things
Jun 14 13:56:25 <Appiah> then tell me when there's free turnbyturn for the n900
Jun 14 13:56:25 <alterego> Venemo: pointless and hackish. I'm not setting up a stupid web page just for an app.
Jun 14 13:56:26 <Appiah> :D
Jun 14 13:56:29 <Venemo> flailingmonkey: so it seems
Jun 14 13:56:31 <cehteh> at least the useful things
Jun 14 13:56:36 <Khertan_> Venemo: but s it s require you to make many ads ... as before users need to setup your repository in your phone
Jun 14 13:57:40 <Khertan_> Venemo: but s it s require you to make many ads ... as before users need to setup your repository in their phone
Jun 14 13:58:14 <Venemo> Khertan_: true, sadly
Jun 14 13:58:24 <flailingmonkey> I am in support of community store
Jun 14 13:58:26 <alterego> There's also the issue with piracy, ovi is a bit more protective.
Jun 14 13:59:06 <alterego> Though uploading non-free apps, with maybe a demo mode and then registration support might work.
Jun 14 13:59:28 <lcuk> a place where open source community apps can be obtained for devices (ala extras) is a must have important part of Open Source.
Jun 14 13:59:36 <Khertan_> Venemo: and there is worst problem, if you have try to publish it before to maemo repository, Hildon Application Manager will ignore all package (even newer) from external repository if there is an older version in extras
Jun 14 13:59:51 <flailingmonkey> until I can get someone on Ovi store team onto forum/irc, I'm not going to expect much improvement from them
Jun 14 14:00:05 <lcuk> forgetting any monetary concerns, if we cant have open source on our handsets build from open source theres something wrong!
Jun 14 14:00:30 <Venemo> lcuk: that's right
Jun 14 14:02:12 <flailingmonkey> lcuk, extras should still exist, but adding the ability to donate from HAM for example would be a major feature to support open source development
Jun 14 14:03:10 <lcuk> sure but how do you balance that - i write a simple wrapper app around already existing libraries who gets the spoils
Jun 14 14:04:40 <lcuk> do we enumerate the developers of all the components in the stack and share the money accordingly (in which case linus gets a couple of cents for each app)
Jun 14 14:05:18 <flailingmonkey> lcuk, it really works just the same as when people go to a donate link in some random t.m.o thread
Jun 14 14:05:21 <nidO> thatd be fun to manage, call about 15 deps then have to split a $1 donation 800 ways
Jun 14 14:05:26 <lcuk> flailingmonkey, sure
Jun 14 14:05:45 <pupnik> don't try to engineer everything.  donations and gifts particularly should be left to the discretion of the giver
Jun 14 14:05:54 <lcuk> indeed pupnik
Jun 14 14:05:59 <lcuk> thats how it is at the moment
Jun 14 14:06:12 * Khertan_ thinks it s look like more a polite way to say : we will not do it !
Jun 14 14:06:13 <Khertan_> :)
Jun 14 14:06:19 <lcuk> if someone wants to add a donation link in their about screen (we have a really nice boiler plate for one) then they can
Jun 14 14:06:44 <lcuk> Khertan_, its not wanting to do it, its a difficult problem!
Jun 14 14:06:55 <Khertan_> lcuk: yep ... i know
Jun 14 14:07:07 <lcuk> your pushing is making people question it lots - you are a pioneer really :)
Jun 14 14:07:09 <Khertan_> specially if we want everythings done automatically
Jun 14 14:07:35 <Khertan_> lol ...
Jun 14 14:09:19 <alterego> lcuk: Linus didn't help you write your app. Why are you counting the kernel? Or are you talking about a Kernel module? :P
Jun 14 14:09:36 <flailingmonkey> indeed it is difficult. In general, HAM is in a position where improvements to the app browsing, fetching and installing would be natural
Jun 14 14:09:47 <lcuk> alterego, without linux your app wouldnt run
Jun 14 14:10:04 <lcuk> or are we all on solaris or some other kernel now?
Jun 14 14:10:18 <alterego> lcuk: well, that's not true. My apps should be pretty XP.
Jun 14 14:10:29 <alterego> And Linux is a POSIX clone :P
Jun 14 14:10:37 <lcuk> new code though
Jun 14 14:10:41 <alterego> s/clone/instance?/
Jun 14 14:10:41 <infobot> alterego meant: And Linux is a POSIX instance? :P
Jun 14 14:11:38 <lcuk> right, thats it, we need to retro actively divert funds to babbages family.
Jun 14 14:12:02 <lcuk> and does anyone know the inventor of the abacus :D
Jun 14 14:12:10 <alterego> With the exception of a couple of kernel drivers and some user space server management tools. there's not a lot I've written that's been platform specific, in fact I definitely try not to be :P
Jun 14 14:12:19 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 14 14:12:48 <alterego> You're forgetting Nokia for roviding our platform? :P
Jun 14 14:12:54 <flailingmonkey> what would people like to see in HAM
Jun 14 14:13:17 <alterego> It should be up to them to split their share wsith their platform components and heritage.
Jun 14 14:13:35 <nidO> my wish list basically just extends to multi install/removal and being less painfully slow
Jun 14 14:13:36 <alterego> You should just worry about the one above, a bubble up approach :)
Jun 14 14:16:12 <flailingmonkey> as for donations, I frankly do not like paypal, which is why Ovi Store seemed promising as Nokia basically implemented their own payment system
Jun 14 14:16:43 <nidO> frankly though it wouldnt be asking a lot to make paypal an option, which a lot of people do want/need to use
Jun 14 14:17:02 <alterego> flailingmonkey: for me, it's easier as it's more integrated into the phone (well not really but you get my point ;)
Jun 14 14:18:02 <flailingmonkey> alterego, what do mean by integrated
Jun 14 14:20:45 <GAN900> alterego, I can do that, just checking if you still need. ;)
Jun 14 14:21:07 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, no, emailed Quim last Thursday and haven't heard back.
Jun 14 14:23:48 <flailingmonkey> alterego, do you mean HAM or paypal is more integrated
Jun 14 14:26:08 <crashanddie> if anyone isn't aware, one of the major fights at the moment is mobile payment. A lot of people in the financial industry believes that combining a payment method inside a phone would have a massive market
Jun 14 14:26:13 <alterego> GAN900: Well, I can always do with another one ;) as my N900 is my primary and it'd be nice to not be completely paranoid of blowing the thing up with my hacking :)
Jun 14 14:26:26 <alterego> GAN900: but no, I don't expect one anymore :)
Jun 14 14:26:38 <alterego> flailingmonkey: ovi
Jun 14 14:28:50 <talmai> hello. does anyone have experience with qt's input method hints inside webview on maemo
Jun 14 14:28:54 <flailingmonkey> crashanddie, most definitely
Jun 14 14:30:02 <flailingmonkey> alterego, from the forum link Khertan_ posted it is plain that Ovi Store does not plan to support independent developers at this time
Jun 14 14:30:12 <alterego> flailingmonkey: I was saying that I agree, paypal isn't as good an option as Ovi, from a UX perspective ..
Jun 14 14:30:18 <Khertan_> lcuk: i've still a abaccus  somewhere :)
Jun 14 14:30:32 <talmai> i have a text input field in HTML that should receive only digits and i don't know how to implement it to work in all localisations (so i cant just convert character "q" to number 1 etc. with javascript)
Jun 14 14:30:35 <crashanddie> salut Khertan_
Jun 14 14:30:40 <Khertan_> 'lu crashanddie
Jun 14 14:30:59 <flailingmonkey> alterego, yeah, its a bummer that its not more suitable :-/
Jun 14 14:31:05 <alterego> flailingmonkey: should we start a maemo.org foundation which is tax registered that we all can use to promote extras apps then?
Jun 14 14:32:45 <flailingmonkey> alterego, its an approach, but the overhead would probably be way too much of a strain
Jun 14 14:32:48 <Khertan_> talmai: if i remember well webview use webkit, wich support html5 : so just use <input type=number>
Jun 14 14:32:58 <alterego> Has anyone explored this possibility, I know there is discussion about maemo select apps being pushed into Ovi, but this is a different issue all together, how about a maemo.org foundation that can be used to push maemo extras apps into Ovi and accept payment?
Jun 14 14:33:28 <alterego> flailingmonkey: still, it might be worth at least a discussion :)
Jun 14 14:33:35 <flailingmonkey> alterego, ah now I see what you mean. quite clever actually
Jun 14 14:34:33 <alterego> I've not heard anyone pitch the idea, seems like an interesting proposal :)
Jun 14 14:36:18 <flailingmonkey> I suspect that paid maemo.org members would need new help to work on such a thing. hopefully the extra (hah) work can be seriously considered
Jun 14 14:36:30 <alterego> I might attempt to start a discussion on t.m.o
Jun 14 14:36:42 <alterego> Well, I need a job ;)
Jun 14 14:37:39 <flailingmonkey> so goes qole
Jun 14 14:38:03 <crashanddie> and so does I
Jun 14 14:38:08 <alterego> flailingmonkey: ?
Jun 14 14:38:11 <Khertan_> alterego: hum ... starting a discussion on talking is maybe not the best place ... i suggest you to launch it on the mailing list
Jun 14 14:38:23 <crashanddie> alterego: qole just posted a thread on tmo because he's looking for a job
Jun 14 14:38:24 <Khertan_> s/talking/talk
Jun 14 14:38:41 <flailingmonkey> maemo.org could stand to have some more independence, and it might help if that includes some financial independence too
Jun 14 14:38:42 <alterego> Khertan_: okay, does anyone want to do it on my behalf? :P
Jun 14 14:39:06 <alterego> I'm somewhat away from keyboard at the mo.
Jun 14 14:39:14 <crashanddie> Khertan_: pas envie qu'on commence une boite de dev ensemble?
Jun 14 14:39:32 <Khertan_> crashanddie: pour faire quoi ?
Jun 14 14:39:32 <sivang> re all
Jun 14 14:39:48 <crashanddie> Khertan_: du dev? :D
Jun 14 14:40:18 <Khertan_> crashanddie: ah bah ... oui ... mais... faut des clients derrière et des projets qui se vendent :)
Jun 14 14:40:29 <crashanddie> des details ca
Jun 14 14:40:55 <crashanddie> anyone feeling like starting a maemo company?
Jun 14 14:40:56 <flailingmonkey> i'm surprised I remember as much french as I do
Jun 14 14:41:11 <Khertan_> ouais ... parceque je suis déjà auto entrepreneur ... et déjà ca, ca n'aboutit à rien :)
Jun 14 14:41:27 <crashanddie> We'll live off paypal donations and n900-love.
Jun 14 14:41:48 <Khertan_> lol good luck :)
Jun 14 14:41:51 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles will be our Steve Jobs, and Nokia our Google.
Jun 14 14:41:56 <flailingmonkey> hehehe
Jun 14 14:42:14 <crashanddie> and qole our Wozniack
Jun 14 14:43:08 <Khertan_> and who will be Shantanu Narayen ?
Jun 14 14:43:23 <Khertan_> (adobe ceo)
Jun 14 14:44:10 <flailingmonkey> Shantanu Narayen will do a cameo appearance
Jun 14 14:44:53 <crashanddie> Khertan_: lcuk :D
Jun 14 14:45:29 <flailingmonkey> good call :-P
Jun 14 14:45:35 <crashanddie> Khertan_: he'll be yelling that liqbase apps would have been a great thing, but GeneralAntilles will only accept Qt-powered apps.
Jun 14 14:46:19 <crashanddie> then lcuk will write a liqbase to qt converter, but we'll manage to ban those too.
Jun 14 14:46:55 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 14 14:47:07 <alterego> I like this, you should do a comic sketch :P
Jun 14 14:47:21 <alterego> maemo.org parallel universes :P
Jun 14 14:48:06 <crashanddie> Lol... Maemo-story at Wembley Arena. Special appearance by Texrat.
Jun 14 14:48:11 <flailingmonkey> one where maemo is the WinMo of mobile OSes (when no open source was pursued :-P)
Jun 14 14:48:43 <crashanddie> And timeless would be heckling me continuously. "That's not how it happened"
Jun 14 14:48:58 <Khertan_> lol
Jun 14 14:49:07 * timeless_mbp looks up
Jun 14 14:49:09 <lcuk> crashanddie, but in that you get to be the sweaty monkey ranting and throwing chairs :P
Jun 14 14:49:23 <crashanddie> :D
Jun 14 14:49:34 <crashanddie> lcuk: oh come on, at least admit I managed to unhook a smile off ya :P
Jun 14 14:49:36 <flailingmonkey> one where maemo is the iOS of phone OSes (nokia goes crazy, stops caring about the low end markets and pours its resources into maemo)
Jun 14 14:49:39 <lcuk> anyway >> gone
Jun 14 14:49:44 <lcuk> no
Jun 14 14:49:48 <alterego> heh, abill_uk always manages to form a crowd :D
Jun 14 14:49:53 <crashanddie> :(
Jun 14 14:50:09 <lcuk> i think its a sizable problem about donations and code contributions
Jun 14 14:51:35 <flailingmonkey> I think being able to integrate the content from downloads.maemo.org (or packages?) into HAM would also improve the app experience
Jun 14 14:52:05 <crashanddie> well, I've always wanted to see a community-written HAM
Jun 14 14:52:40 <crashanddie> HAM has always been limited -- GeneralAntilles has put together plenty of ideas, but it's never been done.
Jun 14 14:52:48 <alterego> flailingmonkey: I think someone is/was doing that, things like ratings and screenshot right?
Jun 14 14:53:03 <flailingmonkey> even being able to select the developers name to see their user page (which could have a donate link on it)
Jun 14 14:53:04 <alterego> I'm still pissed at the ammount of bloody themes in extras! :P
Jun 14 14:53:18 <crashanddie> HAM needs to be dynamic. I don't go to maemo.org downloads, I browse HAM. I wanted to be prompted "based on your choices, you might be interested in "this" new app"
Jun 14 14:53:18 <flailingmonkey> yeah, but HAM is open, on gitoreous
Jun 14 14:53:58 <crashanddie> flailingmonkey: and how many years before any code makes it to end-users?
Jun 14 14:54:18 <flailingmonkey> so we shouldn't make something from scratch, we should extend it, either with a plugin interface or directly in the app
Jun 14 14:54:33 <flailingmonkey> I'm going to break that whole mechanism anyway
Jun 14 14:54:40 <alterego> You want HAM to be more like HAS (Hildon App Store) :P
Jun 14 14:54:47 <alterego> You want ads, movies!
Jun 14 14:54:52 <alterego> flashy banners!
Jun 14 14:55:26 <alterego> "GOOD MORNING flailingmonkey, WE THINK YOU SHOULD BUY THIS PENIS ENLARGER APP" :D
Jun 14 14:55:39 <flailingmonkey> based on mece's work, I'm looking into how to replace any package in the "Maemo 5" firmware metapackage
Jun 14 14:55:40 <alterego> jk btw :P
Jun 14 14:55:55 <alterego> I know you'rehung like a donkey ;)
Jun 14 14:56:06 <flailingmonkey> alterego, hey, they will be a hit in Ovi store :-P
Jun 14 14:56:13 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 14 14:56:14 <Khertan_> flailingmonkey: it s open ... but you can't update it ... you can just fork it !
Jun 14 14:56:15 <Khertan_> :)
Jun 14 14:56:20 <flailingmonkey> s/they/that/
Jun 14 14:56:21 <infobot> flailingmonkey meant: alterego, hey, that will be a hit in Ovi store :-P
Jun 14 14:56:54 <alterego> I see what you mean though, but apps/store it's all on Nokia this is their platform.
Jun 14 14:57:27 <alterego> I'd really like to develop a whizzy app store platform for maemo, but Nokia are doing it themselves, so what's the point?
Jun 14 14:57:36 <alterego> Mine would be better though,
Jun 14 14:58:59 <timeless_mbp> alterego: that's not very hard =b
Jun 14 14:59:07 <alterego> :D
Jun 14 14:59:40 <frals> so err, how common it is not to have grounded power outlets in finnish apartments?
Jun 14 14:59:42 <alterego> What if my killer app is an open store, I can distribute my store app on ovi store :P
Jun 14 15:00:10 <alterego> I just want a small cut of all you guys sales. and I'll donate some of my profits to maemo.org :)
Jun 14 15:00:25 <flailingmonkey> without any of the donations/paid apps parts, HAM updates would still greatly benefit development
Jun 14 15:01:02 <alterego> flailingmonkey: HAM is dead anyway, we will probably be forced to maintain it eventually.
Jun 14 15:01:21 <alterego> Though, whatabout MeeGo?
Jun 14 15:01:26 <talmai> Khertan_: (about type="number") QWebView does not recognize type number, it's treated the same as type text :/
Jun 14 15:01:46 <flailingmonkey> it will have QAM, Qt-App-Manager
Jun 14 15:01:52 <xkr47-DI> frals, all older houses (>10-20 years) have grounded outlets only in kitchens & bathrooms
Jun 14 15:02:07 <Khertan_> talmai: :(
Jun 14 15:02:18 <frals> xkr47-DI: alright, cheers :)
Jun 14 15:02:28 <flailingmonkey> or something. I suspect they wouldn't have such a major component in anything but qt
Jun 14 15:02:44 <xkr47-DI> frals, why ? :)
Jun 14 15:03:17 <frals> looking for apartment in hel atm and two of the ones i looked at had a disturbing lack of grounded outlets where i would want them :;p
Jun 14 15:04:07 <timeless_mbp> frals: did they have ungrounded outlets?
Jun 14 15:04:19 <frals> yeah
Jun 14 15:04:22 <timeless_mbp> wow
Jun 14 15:04:34 <crashanddie> frals: I visited a flat on Saturday, there were 6 outlets in the kitchen, 2 in the living room, and 1 in the bedroom.
Jun 14 15:04:55 <frals> or whatever they are called, the ones who arent 'schuko' plugs :p
Jun 14 15:05:21 <xkr47-DI> frals, all new houses have grounded everywhere
Jun 14 15:05:32 <xkr47-DI> I must say I like the plugs they have in italy
Jun 14 15:06:02 <xkr47-DI> like a normal euro plug, but with a ground pin in the middle
Jun 14 15:06:30 <xkr47-DI> they sold those with regular computer plugs in the other end.. felt like buying a bunch of those and an extension coord
Jun 14 15:06:50 <xkr47-DI> take half the space, with the same functionality :)
Jun 14 15:07:08 <xkr47-DI> </blop>
Jun 14 15:07:49 <Khertan_> in my house every plug was connected on the same 32 A (380V) fuse. I rebuilt everything
Jun 14 15:08:07 <xkr47-DI> lol
Jun 14 15:08:15 <nidO> everything on one 32a fuse?
Jun 14 15:08:20 <xkr47-DI> 380V sounds strange
Jun 14 15:08:29 <Khertan_> yep on on 32A - 380V fuse yep
Jun 14 15:09:30 <nidO> thinking of flats, gotta tidy mine up :<
Jun 14 15:09:47 <xkr47-DI> FlatTidyupReminderApp
Jun 14 15:10:18 <nidO> set to ring an alarm 4 hours before anytime the girlfriend's parents are due to show up.
Jun 14 15:10:18 <penguinbait> I would prefer an app that tidyup itself, not remind me
Jun 14 15:11:00 <GAN900> alterego, start working on app downloader.
Jun 14 15:11:07 <GAN900> alterego, they really need help.
Jun 14 15:11:15 <alterego> nidO: hook that into a subdermal gps embedded in their poodle and a teleportation machine, sold, I'll buy it for 50 dollar
Jun 14 15:11:28 <alterego> GAN900: how active is that project?
Jun 14 15:12:17 <flailingmonkey> GAN900: thats the one with the screenshots/reviews, right?
Jun 14 15:15:40 <flailingmonkey> I think making comments about an app from an app manager would be great
Jun 14 15:15:55 <flailingmonkey> and for testing, voting :-p
Jun 14 15:16:11 <alterego> I'd prefer ratings, comments will get out-of-control ...
Jun 14 15:16:37 <alterego> I want star ratings and screenshots and a seperate area for themes and art
Jun 14 15:16:48 <xkr47-DI> agreed
Jun 14 15:18:18 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: Thanks.
Jun 14 15:18:39 <flailingmonkey> yeah, "art" content definitely clutters up the app list right now, and in HAM its almost pointless since you can't see them
Jun 14 15:19:06 <Mece> the testing quarantine is 10 days, right?
Jun 14 15:19:20 <flailingmonkey> perhaps a link to the app's download/package website to write reviews
Jun 14 15:19:36 <Mece> flailingmonkey, que?
Jun 14 15:20:48 <GAN900> alterego, X-Fade, danielwilms and somebody else.
Jun 14 15:21:08 <Mece> soo.. I seem to have a problem that is beyond my skills to solve.
Jun 14 15:21:49 <alterego> GAN900: I'll look into it Wednesday :)
Jun 14 15:22:04 <Mece> I've got a build of wesnoth that works perfectly fine when compiled in scratchbox, but if Autobuilder builds it, the binary segfaults.
Jun 14 15:22:05 * alterego makes an appointment
Jun 14 15:22:07 <puphome> heh freenode doesn't filter ctrl-g
Jun 14 15:22:43 <Mece> puphome, what's ctrl-g?
Jun 14 15:22:59 <GAN900> alterego, cool.
Jun 14 15:23:07 <Mece> ahemm
Jun 14 15:23:17 <Mece> was it a dumb question I wonder..
Jun 14 15:24:45 <Mece> X-Fade, ping?
Jun 14 15:24:50 <flailingmonkey> mece, i have no idea either.
Jun 14 15:27:17 <Mece> flailingmonkey, did you find the filemanager thing?
Jun 14 15:27:39 <SpeedEvil> flailingmonkey: cuteftp?
Jun 14 15:27:44 <SpeedEvil> err
Jun 14 15:27:48 <SpeedEvil> cuteexplorer
Jun 14 15:28:47 <flailingmonkey> Mece, haven't searched the logs yet, but I will in a moment
Jun 14 15:28:59 <Mece> Speedevil, I was referring to my modified libhildonfm2
Jun 14 15:29:11 <Mece> I'll give you the link, holdup
Jun 14 15:29:35 <flailingmonkey> mece, thanks
Jun 14 15:29:40 <penguinbait> is Mece plural for Mice?
Jun 14 15:29:59 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 14 15:30:02 <SpeedEvil> Mece: Ah
Jun 14 15:30:09 <flailingmonkey> multiple multiples of mice
Jun 14 15:30:18 <flailingmonkey> a regiment really
Jun 14 15:30:24 <penguinbait> Hey look, its mece's feces, not to be confused with reeses pieces ;)
Jun 14 15:30:29 <SpeedEvil> Mece: I'm practically dead ATM. Spent 2 hours up a fucking tall ladder, with a hedgetrimmer
Jun 14 15:30:42 <LinuxCode> SpeedEvil, dont even mention it
Jun 14 15:30:47 * LinuxCode has to do his
Jun 14 15:30:52 <LinuxCode> but birds are nesting
Jun 14 15:30:57 <LinuxCode> best to do later this year
Jun 14 15:31:32 <SpeedEvil> I have decided that it's evolution in action.
Jun 14 15:31:45 <lcuk> if the birds are occupying the bushes, they should maintain it - drop them an official letter of eviction
Jun 14 15:32:06 <SpeedEvil> If the birds can provide me with a time machine so I can do it 6 months ago, I am quite happy to do so.
Jun 14 15:32:19 <SpeedEvil> This will lead eventually to birds evolving the ability to produce time machines.
Jun 14 15:32:26 <SpeedEvil> Which is a net plus.
Jun 14 15:32:55 <lcuk> avine technology is far more advanced than ours
Jun 14 15:33:07 <lcuk> after all, they have had personal flying cars for centuries
Jun 14 15:33:13 <xkr47-DI> lol
Jun 14 15:33:46 <penguinbait> if they just had opposable thumb they would rule the world!!!!!!!!
Jun 14 15:34:30 <SpeedEvil> Opposable left or right thumb?
Jun 14 15:34:53 <Khertan_> bye !
Jun 14 15:34:58 <penguinbait> thumbs :)
Jun 14 15:35:04 <SpeedEvil> wwaaaaaaavvve
Jun 14 15:39:23 <alterego> Just found ctrl+n in microb, that's the only thing I kept having to un maximize for :D
Jun 14 15:49:02 <flailingmonkey> who uses shortcutd?
Jun 14 15:49:28 <smhar> what is this rumor about N9? is it true?
Jun 14 15:49:52 <korhojoa> maybe. D:
Jun 14 15:49:55 <Mece> flailingmonkey, I do, I think. is it the one with camerabutton to taskswitcher?
Jun 14 15:50:53 <alterego> smhar: what about N9? All I've heard is rumour about rumour :P
Jun 14 15:50:56 <Mece> smhar, which rumor is that?
Jun 14 15:51:34 <smhar> alterego, korhojoa, it does not seem authentic to me.. but .... -maybe I am just hoping :-) http://www.nokian900applications.com/nokia-n9/
Jun 14 15:52:47 <alterego> smhar: it's not authnentic, not until Nokia officially release some statement.
Jun 14 15:52:55 <vldcnst> abill_uk ever comes here?
Jun 14 15:52:56 <alterego> Ignore crap like that :P
Jun 14 15:53:15 <alterego> vldcnst: never seen him here ... (thankgod)
Jun 14 15:53:25 <alterego> I mean, unfortunately ...
Jun 14 15:53:45 <Mece> vldcnst, I hope not..
Jun 14 15:53:45 <Stskeeps> vldcnst: if he showed up here he'd immediately piss off crashanddie for sure
Jun 14 15:53:50 <vldcnst> I agree.
Jun 14 15:54:11 <vldcnst> Just wanted to test my new ignore script.
Jun 14 15:54:19 <Mece> hehehe
Jun 14 15:54:24 <alterego> hahah
Jun 14 15:54:30 <alterego> test it on me! :P
Jun 14 15:54:54 <alterego> Your mom has crabs ...
Jun 14 15:54:58 <alterego> did it work?
Jun 14 15:55:06 <vldcnst> it only works with idiots.
Jun 14 15:55:15 <vldcnst> sorry :p
Jun 14 15:55:24 <alterego> I think I've found your first bug then :P
Jun 14 15:55:40 <alterego> Might not detect minus IQ points :)
Jun 14 15:56:29 <alterego> vldcnst: have you been following his latest thread?
Jun 14 15:56:46 <vldcnst> alterego: the n9 one?
Jun 14 15:56:51 <alterego> I'd ignore him, but he doesn't really get to me.
Jun 14 15:57:06 <alterego> vldcnst: yeah, I've been trying  to be civil in that one :)
Jun 14 15:57:13 <vldcnst> alterego: I think he's funny. He's a good combo with microwave popcorn.
Jun 14 15:57:28 <vldcnst> (funny in a bad way)
Jun 14 15:57:32 <Mece> alterego, the most annoying thing about that guy is that he seems to try to do something constructive but fails so utterly on every level.
Jun 14 15:57:39 <alterego> I'm tswindell
Jun 14 15:58:01 <alterego> Mece: you've noticed that too? Well, he is a really kick ass engineer :P
Jun 14 15:58:27 <alterego> sir Engineer I believe he likes to be known :D
Jun 14 15:58:53 <Mece> alterego, he has some strange deficiencies in his social skills.
Jun 14 15:59:25 <alterego> Yeah, though I understand his blatherings, they still come across as nonsensical and eratic.
Jun 14 16:00:26 <Mece> alterego, well i understand what he means, he is just simply wrong in pretty much everything he says.
Jun 14 16:00:28 <alterego> I think he's a kid, some young person that wants respect but is trying to hard I fear.
Jun 14 16:00:51 <Mece> yeah, seems that way.
Jun 14 16:01:22 <alterego> We need to bring back the calm, so I've ecided I'm going to become maemo.orgs Mr Fonze.
Jun 14 16:01:47 <vldcnst> It's sad that a kid like that could get so popular
Jun 14 16:02:01 <vldcnst> Not that I envy his kind of popularity in any way, but still
Jun 14 16:02:11 <alterego> I will be gate crashing a lot of threads over the next week as a social experiment to see if I can stabalize the newbies
Jun 14 16:02:28 <benno2> DocScrutinizer, Hi, did still not write the bug report, need to write a flexible, idiot proof (me knows better dev) app first.  :) but at least when it comes to audio output (QAudioOutput) the latency is not that horrible (not stellar, but acceptable).
Jun 14 16:03:16 <alterego> benno2: still probably begtter going direct to gst :P
Jun 14 16:03:33 <vldcnst> (he himself has almost finished work on usb otg) < does he even know how to open a terminal?
Jun 14 16:04:00 <benno2> alterego, I am sceptical about that, since according to the docs, gst sits above pulse audio
Jun 14 16:04:41 <alterego> Heh, vldcnst try not to think about it and just wait and see, wait for his announcements ;) he said he's pretty much finished ...
Jun 14 16:04:58 <vldcnst> alterego: right.
Jun 14 16:04:59 <alterego> benno2: well, to the side really
Jun 14 16:05:16 <Mece> vldcnst, he is not popular. he is known and unpopular.
Jun 14 16:05:25 <alterego> benno2: you need to play nice with pulse to maintain phone function though ..
Jun 14 16:05:27 <benno2> alterego, interesting. so what audio interface does gst use ?
Jun 14 16:06:04 <Mece> also I think many will agree that he is the most annoying person currently active on tmo.
Jun 14 16:06:19 <xkr47-DI> tmo = ?
Jun 14 16:06:28 <Mece> gst as in gstreamer?
Jun 14 16:06:28 <vldcnst> talk maemo org ?
Jun 14 16:06:35 <Mece> talk
Jun 14 16:06:45 <xkr47-DI> trackmania original :D
Jun 14 16:06:51 <Mece> ~tmo
Jun 14 16:07:09 <Mece> hmm
Jun 14 16:07:24 <Mece> what's infobot?
Jun 14 16:07:29 <alterego> benno2: oh that platform generally uses pulse for mixing channels and sharing audio input and output. gstreamer, when used directly, will use whatever you tell it to use by constructing the correct pipeline.
Jun 14 16:07:56 <b-man> ~infobot
Jun 14 16:07:57 <infobot> b-man, i love abuse, feed me!, or whack, yo
Jun 14 16:07:59 <alterego> benno2: i.e. talk direct to alsa if you want. but you will almost certainly break everything else.
Jun 14 16:09:00 <benno2> alterego, but what are the "breakage" scenarios exactly ? my audio app opens alsa and then the phone app does not work any more ? (no calls can be made, receive until reboot?=)
Jun 14 16:09:04 <alterego> benno2: and by everything else I mean media player, phone
Jun 14 16:09:15 <b-man> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55976 < a textbook example of a hijacked thread lol
Jun 14 16:09:20 <Mece> infobot, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org
Jun 14 16:09:21 <infobot> okay, Mece
Jun 14 16:09:25 <alterego> benno2: yes exactly, I would have expected that.
Jun 14 16:10:09 <alterego> benno2: That's probably because you've cause pulse to get in a bad state as it maintains handles to mkc and speaker through alsa
Jun 14 16:10:33 <alterego> benno2: so, to play nice, talk to pulse directly, or use gstreamer with pulse sink or src.
Jun 14 16:10:43 <benno2> alterego, the question is how does a VOIP app on maemo open the audio device in a system friendly way without breaking anything ?
Jun 14 16:10:54 <Mece> ~tmo
Jun 14 16:10:55 <infobot> rumour has it, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org
Jun 14 16:11:04 <alterego> benno2: gst :)
Jun 14 16:11:09 <Mece> hmpf
Jun 14 16:11:21 <Mece> yay
Jun 14 16:11:24 <alterego> That is how we handle audio and video in maemo, plain as.
Jun 14 16:11:32 * Mece made infobot do something!
Jun 14 16:11:35 <zaheerm> yes but alsa apps do work
Jun 14 16:11:35 <benno2> alterego, ok. so regarding gst, any app you recommend to look at (at the source) ?
Jun 14 16:11:56 <alterego> benno2: what are you writing? a VoIP client?
Jun 14 16:13:18 <alterego> It's somewhazt different if you want to stream data from some source like network, or just play an audio file :)
Jun 14 16:13:28 <benno2> alterego, no an app which should fast react to audio input showing it visually. currently with QAudioInput I get 5000msec (5sec!) latencies. the same code on Linux gets low latencies. QAudioInput uses ALSA (did look at the code of qt 4.6.2/3). so I think it's maemo's pulse audios ALSA emulation
Jun 14 16:14:16 <alterego> benno2: your getting 5 sec latency on device?
Jun 14 16:14:46 <alterego> ~you're ...
Jun 14 16:15:35 <zaheerm> benno2, you tried on a desktop with pu;seaudio and alsa emulation turned on?
Jun 14 16:15:37 <benno2> alterego, exactly, seems unbelievable but it's that way. on the SDK under freemantle-x86 it works well, as well as on plain linux with alsa. but on a N900 it sucks. it's a plain N900 with PR 1.2.  QAudioOutput OTOH seems to work ok (I'd say 0.x secs output latency)
Jun 14 16:15:52 <benno2> zaheerm, no I tried on the desktop with plain alsa.
Jun 14 16:17:40 <alterego> benno2: okay, just to clarify here, pulse actually also provides alsa with sources.. Erm, I read a cool article a while ago on Linux audio systems, I'll try to find it, but basically pulse has a loop back, which goes back in alsa, it's those "devices" you should be using.
Jun 14 16:17:50 <alterego> If you want to talk direct to alsa that is.
Jun 14 16:19:48 <alterego> just trying to remember where I read the article. I'll dig up a gst example too.
Jun 14 16:20:25 <benno2> alterego, probalby QAudioInput choses the default ALSA devices and that is the pulse ALSA device. and this is what causes latency. if I request a buffer of 2048 bytes at 44kHz (mono 16bit = 1024 bytes = about 20msecs), it returns a bufsize of 8000bytes, which is already fishy.  I tried with 8khz mono 16bit and a bufsize of 512bytes and it is adjusted to 1600bytes. so it seems like it always tries to set the bufsize to 100msec.  but the real latency is 5000msec
Jun 14 16:20:25 <benno2>  when capturing audio. not the advertised 100msec
Jun 14 16:21:20 <alterego> benno2: sure, unfortunately the article was in Linux Format and unless you're a subscriber I can't show you the pdf :P
Jun 14 16:22:51 <alterego> benno2: I think that might be because pulse is monitoring that input itself.
Jun 14 16:24:16 <benno2> alterego, I will write example code and file a bug report to maemo, this is a severe bug. otherwise they have to explain the latency thing more detailed. since Qt is advertised as the API to use for crossplatform code (and will be the official API on Symbian and Meego), Nokia needs to get things straight. not halfbaked high latency multimedia API. I worked with real time audio for the last 10 years, on dozen of platforms and never saw this bad behaviour.
Jun 14 16:26:05 <BCMM> ah, pulseaudio...
Jun 14 16:26:10 <benno2> alterego, I'm one of the authors of this open source sampler : http://www.linuxsampler.org and have contributed tools and tests to improve the audio latency of linux, so I know what I am talking about. in linuxsampler we achieve single digit latencies on any platorm even windows. Nokia messed up the audio system on maemo big time.
Jun 14 16:26:22 <benno2> and it seems that meego will use the same stuff.  very sad
Jun 14 16:27:02 <alterego> benno2: I'm not convinced it's a bug, I just think you don't fully get how maemo's audio is "wired" together.
Jun 14 16:27:42 <alterego> Qt and multimedia is, well, broken atm ...
Jun 14 16:27:50 <alterego> :/
Jun 14 16:28:32 <alterego> So, using gst or pulse directly is probably your only option, and from what it sounds like you're doing, I'd go with gstreamer.
Jun 14 16:30:26 <benno2> alterego, might be, but look at it from a developer's perspective. Nokia says: use Qt so you get efficient and portable code. I use QAudioInput and the latency sucks. so it means the maemo qt people did not do their homework. if developers need to go through 1000 hurdles to get decent latency they lose interest and patience and will switch platform. on iphone for example almost any stupid app provides low latency. because there is a single audio API which work
Jun 14 16:30:26 <benno2> s. I tihkn I need to join the meego ML and Qt ML and start providing numbers and test apps like I did with the linux kernel. it helped a lot. inversted a lot of time but kernel devs listened, used my tools and improved the scheduler.
Jun 14 16:32:43 <alterego> benno2: also, looking at the default settings for pulsesrc in gstreamer, which is probably what Qt is using, there's a default 40000 microsecond latency buffer ..
Jun 14 16:33:01 <alterego> which is pretty close to your your five seconds?
Jun 14 16:33:02 <benno2> alterego, thanks for the tips. I can try to change my code to use gst. but if Nokia did their homework and used it in QAudioInput too it would solve this issue without embarassing 5000msec latency. no wonder that user say Nokia phones are slow and unresponsive. those latency details do matter. users do want reactive multimedia
Jun 14 16:34:55 <Wild_Doogy> Would this place be ok to ask a question about carriers for the n900?
Jun 14 16:35:10 <mece> x-fade, ping?
Jun 14 16:35:17 <alterego> Wild_Doogy: possibly not,
Jun 14 16:35:29 <mece> Wild_Doogy, but ask anyway.
Jun 14 16:36:17 <alterego> thanks for finishing me sentence mece :)
Jun 14 16:36:31 <Arkenoi> is there a hack to make ctrl-shift-R effect presistent?
Jun 14 16:37:00 <Wild_Doogy> right-ho, I have narrowed down my search to t-mobile prepaid plans. what would I need to get that working? just a SIM card? or is it more complicated.
Jun 14 16:38:00 <alterego> Wild_Doogy: just a sim card
Jun 14 16:38:11 <alterego> Wild_Doogy: N900's are unlocked.
Jun 14 16:38:39 <benno2> alterego, I just scanned the qt-maemo sources, qt multimedia does not seem to contain maemo specific code nor QT_WS_MAEMO_5 defines, it just uses plain ALSA. like the official Qt version
Jun 14 16:39:37 <alterego> benno2: well, that's kind of expected. Have you posted to maemo-devel mailing list?
Jun 14 16:39:47 <mece> alterego, simple minds think alike :D
Jun 14 16:39:50 <alterego> benno2: I'm sure your issue is config over code :P
Jun 14 16:39:54 <Wild_Doogy> alterego: Thanks heaps.
Jun 14 16:40:04 <alterego> Wild_Doogy: np
Jun 14 16:40:19 <alterego> I think my karma should be very good today :P
Jun 14 16:40:35 <alterego> I should look for a job or something ...
Jun 14 16:40:59 <benno2> alterego, not yet (though I am a subscriber since the N770 days). but I'd like to write some test code first to backup my claims. otherwise I already know the answer: it's probably your fault, your code is wrong etc
Jun 14 16:42:00 <alterego> :)
Jun 14 16:42:22 <vldcnst> benno2: where are you with linuxsampler? do you need help?
Jun 14 16:43:58 <benno2> vldcnst, help is alway appreciated :) in which area would you like to help out ?  we thought about porting linuxsampler to maemo but the question is if it makes sense. you can downscale the memory requirements (polyphony etc). but one needs a frontend too, eg a virtual keyboard or using an external keyboard etc. the polyphony will not be great but I guess 30-50 voices is doable
Jun 14 16:44:46 <Venemo> hey
Jun 14 16:45:14 <Venemo> I would need the help of somebody who has some understanding of X or the Hildon dekstop
Jun 14 16:45:39 <alterego> Oh, that's a bit insulting ...
Jun 14 16:45:47 <vldcnst> a bit?
Jun 14 16:46:08 <alterego> Qt labs wants me to upgrade flashon my N900 to watch a video :(
Jun 14 16:46:19 <vldcnst> benno2: indeed, porting it to maemo isn't that interesting. I'll take a look on the forums and maybe I can help out in some areas. I'll keep you in touch.
Jun 14 16:46:24 <jaska> haha
Jun 14 16:47:05 <benno2> vldcnst, you are welcome thanks ! all devs read the linuxsampler forums so you can ask there or subscribe to the ML (though the forums do have much more subscribers)
Jun 14 16:56:02 <BCMM> Venemo: i'm sure that giving some more detail of your problem will attract more attention
Jun 14 16:56:52 <SpeedEvil> Alternative ways might be to cover yourself in lard, and swim the channel.
Jun 14 16:57:07 <vldcnst> or change your nickname to abill_uk
Jun 14 16:57:17 <vldcnst> wait, that wouldn't help.
Jun 14 16:58:42 <alterego> Heh
Jun 14 16:59:00 <vldcnst> no, really. How can he say he finished work on USB OTG, that pisses me off
Jun 14 16:59:20 <Venemo> BCMM: I would like to know a way to determine which homescreen widget is currently active
Jun 14 16:59:23 <alterego> vldcnst: I think you need to distract yourself from him out of fear of some kind of unhealthy obsession. fools die off.
Jun 14 16:59:27 <Venemo> sorry
Jun 14 16:59:29 <Venemo> type
Jun 14 16:59:31 <Venemo> typo
Jun 14 16:59:39 <Venemo> BCMM: I would like to know a way to determine which homescreen is currently active
Jun 14 16:59:52 <Venemo> either C or C++ code would help
Jun 14 17:00:06 <alterego> Venemo: you mean in the form of some kind of index?
Jun 14 17:00:22 <alterego> like 1-4?
Jun 14 17:00:27 <Venemo> yes, something like that
Jun 14 17:00:33 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: Have you done dbus-monitor --system - or whatever - while changing desktops - to check if anything changes?
Jun 14 17:00:47 <alterego> SpeedEvil: nothing ;)
Jun 14 17:00:48 <Venemo> hm, I will
Jun 14 17:01:01 <Venemo> but still, I don't want to be notified when it changes
Jun 14 17:01:08 <SpeedEvil> alterego: I'm unsure what parts of hildon is open.
Jun 14 17:01:10 <Venemo> I would like to know which is active
Jun 14 17:01:16 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: even
Jun 14 17:01:32 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: I would start by inspecting to see if hildon-desktop - or is it hildon-home is open
Jun 14 17:01:39 <SpeedEvil> and then if it is - inspect the code
Jun 14 17:01:43 <Venemo> they are open
Jun 14 17:01:51 <Venemo> but I couldn't find such a thing
Jun 14 17:01:58 <Venemo> I don't even know where to start :)
Jun 14 17:02:04 <Venemo> I found this:
Jun 14 17:02:05 <Venemo> http://maemo.gitorious.com/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop/blobs/385675c811cd4e34e395d00f1d505002bd143d13/src/mb/hd-atoms.c
Jun 14 17:02:07 <vldcnst> Venemo: I believe the hildon screen manager checks which widgets are active.
Jun 14 17:02:16 <Venemo> no
Jun 14 17:02:19 <Venemo> not which widgets
Jun 14 17:02:22 <Venemo> which homescreen
Jun 14 17:02:28 <alterego> Venemo: write 4 hidden desktop home widgets and get them to output a number to a file on their activation events :P
Jun 14 17:02:34 <vldcnst> Venemo: my mistake
Jun 14 17:02:53 <Venemo> no, I made a typo, sorry
Jun 14 17:03:12 <alterego> Then put one on each home screen, and you're done :P
Jun 14 17:03:13 <Venemo> alterego: okay, but how do they know the number?
Jun 14 17:03:25 <Venemo> is this a joke?
Jun 14 17:03:33 <alterego> Venemo: It is yes,
Jun 14 17:03:40 <Venemo> okay... :P
Jun 14 17:03:47 <alterego> It would work, but it's horrible.
Jun 14 17:03:57 <BCMM> i know this is newbish of me, but is there any way to get qdbus on the n900?
Jun 14 17:04:05 <Venemo> yes, there is
Jun 14 17:04:15 <Venemo> at #qt-maemo, you can get more help :)
Jun 14 17:04:28 <Venemo> so, I need this, because I wrote an application that puts widgets dynamically on the homescreen
Jun 14 17:04:39 <BCMM> Venemo: was that directed at me?
Jun 14 17:04:44 <Venemo> no
Jun 14 17:04:51 <Venemo> not the last one
Jun 14 17:05:03 <alterego> Venemo: what I would do, if I was doing what you're doing. I'd open up a python interpreter on the device, and I'd start looking at the x windows :)
Jun 14 17:05:33 <Venemo> I need to know which homescreen is active, because I wrote an application that puts widgets dynamically on the homescreen
Jun 14 17:05:55 <Venemo> and obviously, when the device is powered off, the widgets disappear
Jun 14 17:06:12 <Venemo> I can put them back if I set my app to autostart when device starts
Jun 14 17:06:22 <Venemo> I even know their previous coordinates
Jun 14 17:06:50 <flailingmonkey> what if you just have it generate normal widgets
Jun 14 17:06:53 <Venemo> but, the problem is, I can't determine which screen they were on and how to put them to that homescreen
Jun 14 17:06:55 <BCMM> Venemo: aren't there applications which add a widget to the current desktop on install? you could check the source of one of those
Jun 14 17:07:03 <Venemo> yes
Jun 14 17:07:14 <Venemo> but I want to add widgets _dynamically_
Jun 14 17:07:51 <alterego> BCMM: that's done as default, you can't target specific screens.
Jun 14 17:08:10 <Venemo> the advantage is that this way I can have multiple instances of the same widget
Jun 14 17:09:06 <flailingmonkey> it could remove/modify those widgets I would think, but then the widgets wouldn't need the program to be running to display
Jun 14 17:09:39 <Venemo> flailingmonkey: I get your point, but that is not the issue
Jun 14 17:09:57 <Venemo> the issue is that I can't set which desktop are the widgets gonna be added to
Jun 14 17:10:18 <Venemo> at least, I don't know how
Jun 14 17:10:21 <alterego> Venemo: yes you can, just add it directly into gconf
Jun 14 17:10:52 <flailingmonkey> I haven't seen widgets add to a specific desktop, other than when they are loaded on boot
Jun 14 17:11:11 <flailingmonkey> any other time, widgets just get added to current screen right?
Jun 14 17:11:11 <Venemo> yes
Jun 14 17:11:16 <Venemo> yes
Jun 14 17:11:18 <Venemo> this is the isse
Jun 14 17:11:22 <Venemo> this is the issue*
Jun 14 17:11:31 <Venemo> these widgets are _not_ re-added automatically
Jun 14 17:11:34 <flailingmonkey> it might be a use case that was not considered
Jun 14 17:11:40 <Venemo> this means that my app needs to re-add them manually
Jun 14 17:12:01 <Venemo> well, I'm sure it is possible with some hacking around in X
Jun 14 17:12:12 <flailingmonkey> I don't know how you add widgets dynamically though
Jun 14 17:12:34 <Venemo> it is quite easy:
Jun 14 17:12:35 <Venemo> http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/eve-watcher/trunk/source/QtExtensions/qmaemo5dynamichomescreenwidget.cpp
Jun 14 17:13:35 <SpeedEvil> What sort of widegts are you planning?
Jun 14 17:14:06 <Venemo> this sort: v
Jun 14 17:14:09 <Venemo> this sort: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=713907&postcount=25
Jun 14 17:14:32 <BCMM> is there a way to determine, before installation, the files a package provides?
Jun 14 17:14:35 <BCMM> a website, perhaps?
Jun 14 17:15:04 <Venemo> BCMM: download its .deb file, open it with 7-Zip and see what's in there
Jun 14 17:15:12 <flailingmonkey> the utilities that install packages can show their contents too
Jun 14 17:15:45 <Venemo> hmm
Jun 14 17:15:46 <Venemo> btw
Jun 14 17:15:49 <BCMM> Venemo: they are in 7z format?
Jun 14 17:15:50 <DrGrov> How is it with the N900? Is there any way to use some kind of WLAN package sniffers?
Jun 14 17:16:01 <yipdw> BCMM: dpkg -L <deb file>, if you have the archive
Jun 14 17:16:04 <yipdw> no need to unzip
Jun 14 17:16:04 <Venemo> BCMM: no, but 7-Zip can open .debs, too
Jun 14 17:16:10 <DrGrov> Not thinking of using myself. More as a safety precaution.
Jun 14 17:16:19 <vldcnst> DrGrov: monitor mode is implemented.
Jun 14 17:16:20 <yipdw> or, rather, unbzip2, because that's what Debian archives typically are
Jun 14 17:16:24 <BCMM> Venemo: wikipedia says one can just use tar...
Jun 14 17:16:31 <Venemo> for me
Jun 14 17:16:36 <Venemo> I double click a .deb, and it opens
Jun 14 17:16:39 <BCMM> Venemo: ar, rather
Jun 14 17:16:46 <BCMM> Venemo: oh, is this on windows?
Jun 14 17:16:50 <DrGrov> vldcnst: oh, so it is possible to follow a specific WLAN and gather a swarm of information?
Jun 14 17:16:52 <yipdw> BCMM: yeah, Debian archives are tarballs
Jun 14 17:17:13 <BCMM> anyway, if there isn't such a site i may as well just install
Jun 14 17:17:16 <Venemo> BCMM: yes, I use Windows
Jun 14 17:17:24 <BCMM> since i'm only bothered due to my 'net connection being slow
Jun 14 17:17:39 <BCMM> Venemo: ah, that would explain not suggesting tar
Jun 14 17:17:40 <BCMM> sorry
Jun 14 17:18:34 <BCMM> Venemo: heh, aren't you glad i asked you a minute ago instead of now...
Jun 14 17:19:03 <Venemo> BCMM: The Windows version of 7-Zip can open a bunch of different formats
Jun 14 17:19:13 <BCMM> yeah, i know
Jun 14 17:19:15 <Venemo> I guessed that the Linux version can, too
Jun 14 17:19:17 <Venemo> sorry
Jun 14 17:19:38 <BCMM> Venemo: perhaps it can, but tar is popular
Jun 14 17:19:47 <BCMM> also, always installed
Jun 14 17:19:51 <BCMM> (give or take)
Jun 14 17:19:54 <Venemo> okay
Jun 14 17:20:07 <Venemo> sorry for that
Jun 14 17:20:23 <Venemo> the N900 is my first Linux experience that lasted more than 5 minutes :)
Jun 14 17:22:16 <BCMM> Venemo: it's ok, i'm not bothered
Jun 14 17:22:29 <BCMM> Venemo: i just forget that not every Freenode channel is full of linux people :)
Jun 14 17:22:37 <BCMM> Venemo: having fun with maemo?
Jun 14 17:22:52 <Venemo> BCMM: yes :)
Jun 14 17:23:08 <Venemo> I'm not one of those people who hates Linux or anything
Jun 14 17:23:15 <Venemo> I just haven't used it thus far
Jun 14 17:23:17 <vldcnst> who would hate linux?
Jun 14 17:23:34 <Venemo> well, I know many people who hate "the other side"
Jun 14 17:25:28 <yipdw> vldcnst: some people dislike it because the system as a whole isn't really a paragon of consistency or architectural excellence
Jun 14 17:25:39 <yipdw> one example brought up by FreeBSD users is the lack of a unified kernel event notification system
Jun 14 17:25:42 <yipdw> (which FreeBSD has)
Jun 14 17:25:47 <BCMM> Venemo: didn't say you were... for a start, you're using maemo
Jun 14 17:25:53 <flailingmonkey> we are the root cause of the downfall of humanity of course
Jun 14 17:26:09 <BCMM> yipdw: people who dislike linux for that reason probably wouldn't go near windows...
Jun 14 17:26:12 <yipdw> that said, for many situations a Linux-based system is good enough
Jun 14 17:26:26 <yipdw> BCMM: depends
Jun 14 17:26:33 <BCMM> i use linux pretty much exclusively, but i'd agree that freebsd is "theoretically" superiour in a number of ways
Jun 14 17:26:49 <BCMM> i especially admire their paranoia
Jun 14 17:26:53 <valdyn> being cleaner doesnt make it any more practical
Jun 14 17:27:03 <flailingmonkey> indeed, the design is practical not elegent
Jun 14 17:27:07 <Venemo> BCMM: true, but unfortunately, my work requires me to use Windows
Jun 14 17:27:27 <Venemo> I do plan to install Linux on a USB drive, though, for Maemo development :)
Jun 14 17:27:32 <BCMM> there was that xorg bug a while back, and IIRC it didn't effect freebsd
Jun 14 17:27:34 <yipdw> valdyn: in the case of kernel event notifications, that's not really true
Jun 14 17:27:40 <flailingmonkey> valdyn, for use perhaps not, but for development it definitely would be
Jun 14 17:27:58 <yipdw> a cleaner design *is* more practical if you're waiting for notifications on various kernel events, e.g. I/O, process completion, process forking
Jun 14 17:27:58 <BCMM> not because they'd found it already, but because somebody had gone "i don't quite understand that bit, better change it in case" a few years back
Jun 14 17:28:08 <valdyn> yipdw: i didn't try to be specific to that thing, i dont even know what it is
Jun 14 17:28:21 <SplasPood> heh, every time I restart my XMPP server contacts on the N900 get filled with dupes where the Nickname differs from the existing contact entries... big PITA
Jun 14 17:28:33 <flailingmonkey> ouch
Jun 14 17:28:45 <BCMM> yipdw: so by a "unified kernel events system", you mean things like processes ending and inotify and so on would be integrated?
Jun 14 17:28:59 <yipdw> BCMM: yes
Jun 14 17:29:04 <BCMM> yipdw: that is kind of neat...
Jun 14 17:29:10 <yipdw> for example, to watch processes and I/O on Linux you'd have to use ptrace and select
Jun 14 17:29:13 <yipdw> I think
Jun 14 17:29:16 <yipdw> on FreeBSD it all goes through kqueue
Jun 14 17:29:27 <yipdw> (and Darwin, just fyi)
Jun 14 17:29:37 <yipdw> just things like that
Jun 14 17:30:00 <luke-jr> let's raid Nokia HQ
Jun 14 17:30:02 <luke-jr> bring your gnus!
Jun 14 17:30:05 <GAN900> Woo
Jun 14 17:30:06 <yipdw> personally, I use a Linux system, not a FreeBSD system, because ATi's Catalyst drivers don't work on FreeBSD afaik
Jun 14 17:30:09 <yipdw> :P
Jun 14 17:30:20 <yipdw> and I need the OpenCL bits that fglrx provides but radeonhd does not
Jun 14 17:30:28 <yipdw> so yeah, priorities and needed features, etc.
Jun 14 17:31:16 <luke-jr> GAN900: is your N900 is proper gnu??
Jun 14 17:31:49 <BCMM> yipdw: ati's catalyst drivers don't work, period...
Jun 14 17:32:11 <BCMM> yipdw: oh, sorry, you already said why you weren't using open drivers
Jun 14 17:32:21 <yipdw> BCMM: some parts do.  in 10.5 the 3D bits work, but the 2D acceleration is crap
Jun 14 17:32:22 <BCMM> yipdw: looked at radeon as well as radeonhd?
Jun 14 17:32:25 <yipdw> BCMM: yeah
Jun 14 17:32:34 <yipdw> as far as I can tell, neither support the OpenCL extensions
Jun 14 17:32:38 <yipdw> but I could be wrong
Jun 14 17:33:05 <luke-jr> yipdw: so add them
Jun 14 17:33:18 <yipdw> luke-jr: I would, if I had sufficient time
Jun 14 17:33:18 <vldcnst> Venemo: have you tried playing with xev?
Jun 14 17:33:51 <benno2> SpeedEvil, Hi. could you try please to do: arecord -v file.wav  and then see what the capture parameters are. perhaps they are different from the aplay ones you posted yesterday.  many thanks for your help.
Jun 14 17:34:13 <yipdw> luke-jr: but as my time with OpenCL is primarily spent learning and using the system, I find myself often in the situation where I don't have time to delve into the radeon/radeonhd drivers and do it
Jun 14 17:34:51 <Venemo> hmmm
Jun 14 17:34:53 <yipdw> (and it's not easy, for me at least, to justify e.g. funding for that sort of thing)
Jun 14 17:34:59 <Venemo> read this:
Jun 14 17:35:00 <Venemo> http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-June/026537.html
Jun 14 17:35:08 <Venemo> did this feature actually make it into PR 1.2? :o
Jun 14 17:35:34 <yipdw> oh great, more ways to kill my N900's battery
Jun 14 17:38:04 <orospakr> Is there a convenient web search tool for the maemo repositories? ala packages.debian.org.
Jun 14 17:38:14 <Wizzup> radeonhd is outdated, use radeon
Jun 14 17:38:23 <Wizzup> but it doesn't support opencl yet, no
Jun 14 17:38:50 <yipdw> Wizzup: yeah, i was using whichever shipped with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
Jun 14 17:38:54 <yipdw> (probably radeon)
Jun 14 17:39:02 <yipdw> 2D was fantastic, 3D/OpenCL didn't work though
Jun 14 17:39:18 <Wizzup> What card? All but evergreen/r800 should have 3d as well
Jun 14 17:39:25 <Wizzup> (but 3d is still kinda experimental)
Jun 14 17:39:26 <yipdw> ATI Radeon HD 5850
Jun 14 17:39:31 <Wizzup> ah,r800 I think?
Jun 14 17:39:35 <Wizzup> oh, that's r700
Jun 14 17:39:36 <yipdw> something like that
Jun 14 17:39:37 * luke-jr has r300
Jun 14 17:39:38 <Wizzup> Well I g2g :)
Jun 14 17:42:39 <BCMM> yipdw: oh, radeon has seen a lot of improvement pretty recently
Jun 14 17:42:43 <BCMM> well, relitively
Jun 14 17:42:48 <yipdw> BCMM: yeah, it's gotten quite good
Jun 14 17:42:56 <BCMM> yipdw: especially for 600/700
Jun 14 17:43:04 <yipdw> the 2D in particular (as I mentioned) absolutely destroys what fglrx does
Jun 14 17:43:23 <yipdw> i.e. https://gist.github.com/869fcb0ff93fbedbf1f7
Jun 14 17:43:33 <DrGrov> Anyone seen the D-THEME Night?
Jun 14 17:43:40 <DrGrov> No screenshot available on maemo.org... :/
Jun 14 17:43:49 <BCMM> yipdw: i've been using kde desktop effects and even stuff like google earth on my Radeon HD 3870
Jun 14 17:44:10 <BCMM> yipdw: then again, i've been compiling the xorg driver and mesa from git
Jun 14 17:44:18 <BCMM> and using kernel 2.6.34
Jun 14 17:44:36 <yipdw> BCMM: oh, neat
Jun 14 17:45:04 <DrGrov> is there always used to be screenshots for themes?
Jun 14 17:46:40 <BCMM> yipdw: over the past 6 months or so, i've seen Google Earth go from quite glitchy to very smooth
Jun 14 17:47:26 <yipdw> BCMM: that's pretty slick; good indication that the radeon driver is progressing well
Jun 14 17:47:34 <BCMM> yipdw: yeah
Jun 14 17:47:55 <yipdw> I'd love to get involved with that but the time issue (as well as the fact that I haven't written a device driver for any platform in, uh, six years) prevents me from doing so
Jun 14 17:48:09 <BCMM> yipdw: i got the radeon instead of a new nvidia because the kernel driver was progressing so fast
Jun 14 17:48:36 <BCMM> yipdw: http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature
Jun 14 17:49:14 <BCMM> yipdw: makes it look like r600 and r700 are in similar states, so you should get the same sort of features i do
Jun 14 17:49:27 <yipdw> BCMM: well, kind of.  Evergreen is the 5xxx family
Jun 14 17:49:42 <BCMM> yipdw: oh, i thought you had an r700, sorry
Jun 14 17:50:04 <yipdw> BCMM: yeah, i thought I did too and then I found out that Radeon HD 5850 is in the Evergreen/Cypress/whatever-they-called-it family
Jun 14 17:50:18 <yipdw> that said, Evergreen's not in a bad state
Jun 14 17:50:24 <BCMM> yipdw: opengl - WIP
Jun 14 17:50:27 <BCMM> yeah...
Jun 14 17:50:58 <yipdw> and the fact that they're working on accelerated video decoding is also very slick
Jun 14 17:51:00 <flailingmonkey> I think live backgrounds did make it, but haven't seen control panel they ask about in that email
Jun 14 17:51:14 <BCMM> yipdw: shouldn't be *that* long though, iirc AMD is helping, or at least cooperating
Jun 14 17:51:30 <yipdw> nice
Jun 14 17:51:37 <yipdw> yeah, that was one reason I went with ATI stuff
Jun 14 17:52:03 <yipdw> it's rough now, but it has far brighter prospects than NVIDIA wrt Linux, and I can put up with the WTFs caused by fglrx for now
Jun 14 17:53:17 <BCMM> yipdw: yeah, previously: ATI can't do linux drivers right. Now: they still can't, but they've noticed they can't and they're cooperating with community drivers
Jun 14 17:54:07 <satmd> that's what the community asked them from the beginning
Jun 14 17:54:11 <satmd> :)
Jun 14 17:54:27 <BCMM> satmd: yeah
Jun 14 17:54:35 <crashanddie> and talking about ATI drivers on this channel is relevant, how?
Jun 14 17:54:40 <yipdw> it isn't
Jun 14 17:54:50 <crashanddie> then take it to #linux, thanks
Jun 14 17:55:16 <Toba> hey. anyone having a bug in the 'notes' application on the n900 where if you make a bullet list, save, and re-open, a bunch of blank bullets intersperse into your lists?
Jun 14 17:55:27 <Toba> I've tried googling for people talking about it but I have found nothing
Jun 14 17:56:22 <crashanddie> Toba: if you can reproduce it, just create a bug for it
Jun 14 17:57:40 <BCMM> crashanddie: sorry
Jun 14 17:57:48 <crashanddie> np
Jun 14 18:02:41 <benno2> any good soul which could perform a arecord test on his N900 (I don't have a N900 here ATM)  arecord -v file.wav  and then see what the capture parameters are and then post the output to pastebin. I'm trying to track down high latency problems while recording with Qt Multimedia. many thanks!
Jun 14 18:08:31 <lardman> evening chaps
Jun 14 18:08:38 <lardman> & chapesses
Jun 14 18:08:44 <MohammadAG51> morning
Jun 14 18:08:49 <lardman> :)
Jun 14 18:09:00 <flailingmonkey> afterniin
Jun 14 18:09:17 <flailingmonkey> s/afterniin/afternoon/
Jun 14 18:09:17 <infobot> flailingmonkey meant: afternoon
Jun 14 18:09:18 <lcuk> happy june lardman
Jun 14 18:09:21 <lardman> ah, generic ugt greeting to all
Jun 14 18:09:28 <lardman> :)
Jun 14 18:11:12 <MohammadAG51> happy 9:11 peeps
Jun 14 18:12:20 <lardman> bbiam, supper beckons :)
Jun 14 18:13:56 <luke-jr> how does Sprint stay in business?
Jun 14 18:14:08 <MohammadAG51> 4G?
Jun 14 18:14:12 <luke-jr> haha
Jun 14 18:14:13 <luke-jr> maybe
Jun 14 18:14:30 <luke-jr> they want $100/mo for what Cricket offers at $30/mo
Jun 14 18:14:46 <MohammadAG51> when oh when will I see a progress bar for mv
Jun 14 18:15:00 <luke-jr> heck, even T-Mobile wants $50/mo -.-
Jun 14 18:15:31 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, when you make one yourself, normal mv doesnt have one
Jun 14 18:16:22 <MohammadAG51> yeah lcuk, I know :/
Jun 14 18:16:35 * MohammadAG51 ponders how the GUI calculates it
Jun 14 18:16:45 <flailingmonkey> it should use rsync for mv then :-p rsync for eeeverything
Jun 14 18:16:46 <lcuk> the calculation is fairly simple
Jun 14 18:17:09 * MohammadAG51 uses scp over localhost
Jun 14 18:17:44 <luke-jr> is it usually against the ToS to get a line to hook to Asterisk and use it for all calls? <.<
Jun 14 18:20:37 <flailingmonkey> well, for data?
Jun 14 18:20:46 <flailingmonkey> or the phone service
Jun 14 18:20:50 <luke-jr> phone
Jun 14 18:20:55 <luke-jr> obviously O.o
Jun 14 18:21:15 <flailingmonkey> then you can probably do what you like as long as you are in your use of minutes
Jun 14 18:21:42 <luke-jr> well, my thought being abuse the mobile-to-mobile minutes ;)
Jun 14 18:22:12 <luke-jr> not that it matters mcuh... even abusing the mobile-to-mobile minutes, it's more expensive than Cricket's $30/mo -.-
Jun 14 18:58:18 * lardman takes a glance at the openpandora blog in passing and sees that they have still not really started shipping
Jun 14 18:58:28 <mece> teehee
Jun 14 18:58:38 <mece> dnf
Jun 14 18:59:27 <mece> is it possible to have normal widgets in a QMenuBar?
Jun 14 18:59:37 <mece> I would like some checkboxes.
Jun 14 18:59:39 <b-man> they'll probably update it once they have fished shipping all of the devices ;)
Jun 14 19:00:26 <lardman> what dnf will be released once the pandora ships?!
Jun 14 19:00:37 <lardman> ;)
Jun 14 19:00:59 * lardman goes to get a beer to recover, bbiab
Jun 14 19:03:36 <Venemo> mece: check this out: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-menu.html
Jun 14 19:04:10 <mece> Yay!
Jun 14 19:04:13 <mece> Venemo, thanks!
Jun 14 19:04:27 <Venemo> you're welcome
Jun 14 19:04:59 <flailingmonkey> widgetsss?
Jun 14 19:05:38 <mece> flailingmonkey: que?
Jun 14 19:05:41 <Venemo> not really, but some customization of the menu
Jun 14 19:06:02 <mece> well it was exactly what I wanted either way :)
Jun 14 19:06:40 <Venemo> :)
Jun 14 19:09:05 <mece> OMG
Jun 14 19:09:11 <mece> Paraguay!!!!!
Jun 14 19:09:17 <petur> hahaha
Jun 14 19:09:27 <petur> footbalfreak :P
Jun 14 19:09:33 <mece> meh
Jun 14 19:09:55 <mece> I just have the stream open. Got a lot of italian friends. I bet they're pissed now.
Jun 14 19:10:45 <SpeedEvil> It's OK, I'm sure they all did well out of their coincidental bets against italy.
Jun 14 19:10:58 <mece> heee
Jun 14 19:11:02 <SpeedEvil> Which had nothing to do with the whereabouts of the italian players relatives.
Jun 14 19:11:07 <mece> :D
Jun 14 19:15:45 <SpeedEvil> Some people in other channels have eben commenting on the possibiltiy og a 'n9' - and referring to video. Is there anything substantive?
Jun 14 19:16:12 <mece> SpeedEvil. No.
Jun 14 19:16:20 <flailingmonkey> nothing really besides the video itself
Jun 14 19:16:23 <SpeedEvil> k
Jun 14 19:16:48 <flailingmonkey> the video makes me think of a sidekick kinda
Jun 14 19:16:55 <mece> the video doesn't have an actual item though. A render.
Jun 14 19:17:14 <SpeedEvil> flailingmonkey: You mean where nokia store all your data, and then delete it all in one massive accident?
Jun 14 19:17:30 <mece> LOL
Jun 14 19:18:24 <mece> damn.. the checkable actions weren't as nice as I wanted.
Jun 14 19:18:39 <Venemo> really?
Jun 14 19:18:43 <Venemo> how did they look?
Jun 14 19:18:55 <petur> I have a dev question: I created a Qt app (using Qt Creator), and would now like to build a version for n900. I installed scratchbox and now I'm a bit stuck: "bash: qmake: command not found"
Jun 14 19:18:56 <mece> well they work, but I wanted a checkbox button.
Jun 14 19:19:12 <Venemo> and what does it look like as it is?
Jun 14 19:19:30 <mece> Venemo: a button that remains "clicked"
Jun 14 19:19:45 <flailingmonkey> petur, what about using MADDE?
Jun 14 19:20:05 <petur> isn't that windows-only?
Jun 14 19:20:17 <flailingmonkey> petur, might be right about that
Jun 14 19:20:30 <petur> using ubuntu 10.04 here
Jun 14 19:20:39 <b-man> i think i found something very, very odd - apparently the armel package providing qmake contains i386 binaries
Jun 14 19:20:42 <benno2> SpeedEvil, Hi. could you try please to do: arecord -v file.wav  and then see what the capture parameters are. perhaps they are different from the aplay ones you posted yesterday.  many thanks for your help.
Jun 14 19:21:58 <SpeedEvil> Not at the moment.
Jun 14 19:22:01 <flailingmonkey> benno2, you just want the output it creates?
Jun 14 19:22:21 <SpeedEvil> That would involve getting out of bed.
Jun 14 19:22:38 <Venemo> petur: MADDE is for Linux and Mac, too
Jun 14 19:22:40 <SpeedEvil> And I've been up a ladder cutting hedges all day.
Jun 14 19:22:47 <Venemo> and also it is less buggy on Linux than on Windows
Jun 14 19:22:53 <SpeedEvil> Well - for a couple of hours - which was my mimit
Jun 14 19:22:56 <SpeedEvil> limit
Jun 14 19:23:12 <petur> Venemo: thnx, I'll have a look
Jun 14 19:23:31 <Venemo> just download the Nokia Qt SDK RC for Linux
Jun 14 19:23:34 <benno2> flailingmonkey, no. I am trying to debug what kind of audio device I have to open in order to achieve lower latency.  if you run arecord -v file.wav then it prints some debug info on the console , like buffer size etc. it would be useful to get that info because I have no N900 herre ATM
Jun 14 19:23:46 <Venemo> it contains MADDE and installs it for you, effortlessly
Jun 14 19:25:06 <flailingmonkey> benno2, http://pastebin.org/331077
Jun 14 19:26:40 <petur> Venemo: I installed Qt Creator already from qt.nokia.com, I assume you mean something else?
Jun 14 19:26:53 <Venemo> petur: yes, you assume correctly
Jun 14 19:27:16 <benno2> flailingmonkey, thanks alot for the info!
Jun 14 19:27:33 <Venemo> petur: uninstall the current qt-related stuff, and install this:
Jun 14 19:27:34 <Venemo> http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html
Jun 14 19:27:53 <petur> uninstall qtcreator?
Jun 14 19:27:57 <Venemo> yes
Jun 14 19:27:59 <Arkenoi> how do i skip intro on scrummvm games? (beneath a steel sky etc)
Jun 14 19:28:12 <Venemo> Nokia Qt SDK comes with a newer Qt Creator, anyways
Jun 14 19:28:19 <Venemo> there is both a 32-bit and a 64-bit version
Jun 14 19:28:39 <petur> will my existing Qt project still open with that?
Jun 14 19:28:57 <Venemo> yes, it will
Jun 14 19:29:17 <petur> ok... let's get to work then :)
Jun 14 19:29:23 <Venemo> look at here: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE
Jun 14 19:29:39 <Venemo> what applies to MADDE applies to the Nokia Qt SDK as well, because it uses MADDE
Jun 14 19:29:56 <Venemo> on that page, you can find how to use it with your device
Jun 14 19:30:10 <petur> great, thanks a lot
Jun 14 19:30:21 <Venemo> you don't have to follow the steps on integration and other stuff, because it is already done
Jun 14 19:30:37 <Venemo> here is what you'll need: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE/Device_runtime
Jun 14 19:31:03 <Venemo> and #qt-maemo is the right place to ask questions about Qt stuff :)
Jun 14 19:31:24 <petur> okidoki...
Jun 14 19:31:36 <Venemo> there are a lot of helpful people there
Jun 14 19:32:04 <flailingmonkey> benno, your welcome :)
Jun 14 19:32:25 <flailingmonkey> s/benno/benno2/
Jun 14 19:32:26 <infobot> flailingmonkey meant: benno2, your welcome :)
Jun 14 19:38:20 <b-man> hmm, it looks like the libqt4-dev package is gonna need to be rebuilt - looks really messed up :(
Jun 14 19:38:44 <b-man> the armel package has a mix of arm and i386 binaries :P
Jun 14 19:41:07 <flailingmonkey> thats just because the N9 will have hardware x86 instruction emulation
Jun 14 19:41:18 <b-man> lol
Jun 14 19:41:22 <flailingmonkey> :-p
Jun 14 19:42:13 <flailingmonkey> i'd tell the people in #qt-maemo though
Jun 14 19:42:27 * b-man does so
Jun 14 19:53:03 <xDaReaperx> is there a working bittorrent client for N900 ?
Jun 14 19:53:07 <xDaReaperx> i searched a lot
Jun 14 19:53:20 <vldcnst> not really
Jun 14 19:53:38 <vldcnst> not really as in, you haven't searched enough
Jun 14 19:53:40 <vldcnst> transmission
Jun 14 19:53:47 <Venemo> re all
Jun 14 19:54:02 <Venemo> Pidgin is WAY better than mIRC
Jun 14 19:54:09 <xDaReaperx> transmission is in development right ?
Jun 14 19:54:16 <vldcnst> it's working
Jun 14 19:54:16 <MohammadAG51> irssi ftw
Jun 14 19:55:22 <Venemo> MohammadAG51: hehe, haven't tried that one yet
Jun 14 19:55:53 <vldcnst> Venemo: I've used mIRC since 98. I even use it on wine.
Jun 14 19:56:12 <Venemo> well, it's non-free
Jun 14 19:56:17 <vldcnst> s/it/with
Jun 14 19:56:21 <Venemo> and I don't feel like paying for it
Jun 14 19:59:17 <nidO> since when have you ever had to pay for mirc
Jun 14 19:59:59 <flailingmonkey> irssiiiiiii
Jun 14 20:00:03 <Venemo> since it is shareware?
Jun 14 20:00:42 <Venemo> nidO: http://www.mirc.co.uk/register.html -> they ask for $20...
Jun 14 20:01:00 <nidO> its optional
Jun 14 20:01:04 <flailingmonkey> i downloaded both irssi and xchat, and the font on xchat made no sense
Jun 14 20:01:16 <flailingmonkey> irssi feels more irc-style
Jun 14 20:01:24 <Venemo> nidO: no, it is a 30 day trial, and then goodbye mIRC
Jun 14 20:01:31 <nidO> no
Jun 14 20:01:38 <Venemo> well, it is for me
Jun 14 20:01:40 <RST38h> moo all
Jun 14 20:01:42 <nidO> then "ask you for payment, make you wait 5 seconds, then press continue"
Jun 14 20:01:48 <alterego> When I'm holding my N900 I give off some weird electromagnatic stuff
Jun 14 20:01:51 <flailingmonkey> but I had to find a theme that worked with white backgrounds, most themes assume black background
Jun 14 20:01:56 <nidO> when i open mirc i get told its like 900 days over then carries on fine
Jun 14 20:02:06 <Venemo> hehe :D
Jun 14 20:02:13 <alterego> My girlfriend can actually tell when I'm holding it by stroking my arm and now my ear.
Jun 14 20:02:15 <Kegetys> just because it works doesn't mean its legal to keep using it
Jun 14 20:02:25 <alterego> And I can hear it too O_O
Jun 14 20:02:27 <Venemo> well, still, Pidgin doesn't ask for any money, and looks better
Jun 14 20:02:38 <flailingmonkey> rofl, it generates super powers
Jun 14 20:02:45 <b-man> alterego: do electronics and compasses go nutz? xD (jk)
Jun 14 20:03:10 <flailingmonkey> pidgin on N900? never tried IRC through pidgin
Jun 14 20:03:31 <flailingmonkey> ~karma
Jun 14 20:03:31 <infobot> flailingmonkey has neutral karma
Jun 14 20:03:35 <alterego> It's quite weird, I did a blind fold test and she instantly knows if I'm touching it, seems to only work with the screen or metal border of the screen :/
Jun 14 20:03:52 <alterego> ~karma
Jun 14 20:03:54 <MohammadAG51> infobot, karma
Jun 14 20:03:54 <infobot> alterego has neutral karma
Jun 14 20:04:01 <MohammadAG51> infobot, karma
Jun 14 20:04:37 <b-man> ~nickometer alterego
Jun 14 20:04:39 <infobot> 'alterego' is 0.000% lame, b-man
Jun 14 20:04:53 <b-man> ~nickometer MohammadAG51>
Jun 14 20:04:54 <infobot> 'MohammadAG51>' is 39.000% lame, b-man
Jun 14 20:04:55 <b-man> err
Jun 14 20:05:00 <b-man> lol
Jun 14 20:05:01 <MohammadAG51> ~karma
Jun 14 20:05:01 <infobot> mohammadag51 has neutral karma
Jun 14 20:05:11 <vldcnst> ~nickometer vldcnst
Jun 14 20:05:13 <infobot> 'vldcnst' is 0.000% lame, vldcnst
Jun 14 20:05:16 <vldcnst> good bot.
Jun 14 20:05:22 <b-man> ~nickometer b-man
Jun 14 20:05:24 <infobot> 'b-man' is 14.000% lame, b-man
Jun 14 20:05:29 <vldcnst> very good bot.
Jun 14 20:05:30 <lcuk> why does this make me want to go to the toilet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehmu-lTJXF0
Jun 14 20:05:31 <b-man> :)
Jun 14 20:05:37 <flailingmonkey> ~nickometer flailingmonkey
Jun 14 20:05:38 <infobot> 'flailingmonkey' is 0.000% lame, flailingmonkey
Jun 14 20:05:51 <MohammadAG51> ~karma MohammadAG
Jun 14 20:05:51 <infobot> mohammadag has neutral karma
Jun 14 20:06:00 <lcuk> ~karma lcuk
Jun 14 20:06:01 <infobot> lcuk has karma of 2
Jun 14 20:06:03 <MohammadAG51> fu
Jun 14 20:06:04 <lcuk> :D
Jun 14 20:06:08 <b-man> ~nickometer lcuk
Jun 14 20:06:09 <infobot> 'lcuk' is 0.000% lame, b-man
Jun 14 20:06:12 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 14 20:06:18 <b-man> ~nickometer b-man
Jun 14 20:06:19 <lcuk> ~MohammadAG51++
Jun 14 20:06:19 <flailingmonkey> ~nickometer MohammadAG
Jun 14 20:06:20 <infobot> 'b-man' is 14.000% lame, b-man
Jun 14 20:06:21 <infobot> 'MohammadAG' is 8.000% lame, flailingmonkey
Jun 14 20:06:23 <b-man> ;_;
Jun 14 20:06:29 <alterego> What's infobots' karma about?
Jun 14 20:06:45 <flailingmonkey> ~nickometer MohammadAG51
Jun 14 20:06:46 <infobot> 'MohammadAG51' is 31.000% lame, flailingmonkey
Jun 14 20:06:49 <lcuk> when the end of the world happens the karma will be taken into account
Jun 14 20:06:55 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 14 20:06:57 <SpeedEvil> ~nickometer GAN900
Jun 14 20:06:58 <infobot> 'GAN900' is 69.000% lame, speedevil
Jun 14 20:06:59 <alterego> Hah
Jun 14 20:07:00 <b-man> ~help
Jun 14 20:07:03 <MohammadAG51> LOL
Jun 14 20:07:07 <vldcnst> vldcnst++
Jun 14 20:07:07 <GAN900> :(
Jun 14 20:07:11 <flailingmonkey> thats why people haven't abandoned Maemo yet
Jun 14 20:07:15 <vldcnst> ~vldcnst++
Jun 14 20:07:20 <vldcnst> <infobot> please don't karma yourself
Jun 14 20:07:21 <vldcnst> aww man.
Jun 14 20:07:26 <lcuk> ~flailingmonkey++
Jun 14 20:07:26 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 14 20:07:37 <b-man> ~uptime
Jun 14 20:07:37 <lcuk> vldcnst, you will go blind
Jun 14 20:07:40 <flailingmonkey> ~karma
Jun 14 20:07:41 <infobot> flailingmonkey has karma of 1
Jun 14 20:07:45 <lcuk> like MohammadAG51
Jun 14 20:07:46 <MohammadAG51> ~karma
Jun 14 20:07:46 <flailingmonkey> :-)
Jun 14 20:07:47 <b-man> ~lobotomy
Jun 14 20:07:48 <infobot> I feel different somehow.
Jun 14 20:07:51 <b-man> lol
Jun 14 20:08:02 * lcuk watches relaxing mountain stream video
Jun 14 20:08:03 <alterego> heh
Jun 14 20:08:05 <MohammadAG51> ~karma
Jun 14 20:08:05 <infobot> mohammadag51 has karma of 1
Jun 14 20:08:13 <MohammadAG51> yay
Jun 14 20:08:22 <alterego> Awww
Jun 14 20:08:29 <vldcnst> ~$who++
Jun 14 20:08:29 <flailingmonkey> ~Mece++
Jun 14 20:08:33 <b-man> ~$10.00
Jun 14 20:08:37 <vldcnst> well that failed.
Jun 14 20:08:42 <b-man> ~$10
Jun 14 20:08:47 <b-man> hmm
Jun 14 20:09:17 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: That's no stream!
Jun 14 20:09:23 <DocAvalanche> PLEASE forget ibot karma concept!
Jun 14 20:09:33 <flailingmonkey> ~alterego++
Jun 14 20:09:39 <flailingmonkey> hehehe
Jun 14 20:09:40 <b-man> ~lart everyone
Jun 14 20:09:41 * infobot eats everyone's liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti
Jun 14 20:09:43 * MohammadAG51 forgets what he said
Jun 14 20:09:51 <alterego> Heh
Jun 14 20:10:04 <vldcnst> ~alterego--
Jun 14 20:10:06 <flailingmonkey> ~encrypt
Jun 14 20:10:07 <infobot> turns plaintext words into encrypted strings in a variety of ways.. URL: http://suso.org/~suso/encrypt/
Jun 14 20:10:08 <vldcnst> don't give free karma.
Jun 14 20:10:09 <alterego> thanks flailingmonkey
Jun 14 20:10:18 <b-man> ~burn himself
Jun 14 20:10:19 * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Jun 14 20:10:28 <MohammadAG51> herself*
Jun 14 20:10:53 <alterego> ~burn ~labotomy
Jun 14 20:10:54 * infobot pours gasoline all over ~labotomy, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Jun 14 20:11:09 <alterego> heh, oh well, no batch processing thwn :P
Jun 14 20:11:11 <b-man> ~main
Jun 14 20:11:12 <infobot> methinks main is a topic that doesn't work.
Jun 14 20:11:23 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 14 20:11:27 <b-man> rofl
Jun 14 20:12:04 <b-man> ~upsidedow
Jun 14 20:12:05 <MohammadAG51> infobot, pr1.3
Jun 14 20:12:06 <infobot> i heard pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now.....
Jun 14 20:12:20 <BugBlue> :D
Jun 14 20:12:32 <flailingmonkey> ~MeeGo
Jun 14 20:12:33 <infobot> [meego] http://meego.com an opensource distribution for netbooks and mobile devices
Jun 14 20:12:49 <vldcnst> ~ignore * except owner
Jun 14 20:12:50 * infobot sticks her fingers in her ears.  "La, la, la!  I can't hear you, * except owner!"
Jun 14 20:12:55 <vldcnst> cry.
Jun 14 20:12:58 <b-man> hmm
Jun 14 20:13:01 <b-man> ~google
Jun 14 20:13:02 <infobot> well, google is http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google
Jun 14 20:13:07 <b-man> lol
Jun 14 20:13:09 <zash> lol
Jun 14 20:13:50 <b-man> ~kernel
Jun 14 20:13:54 <infobot> Linux kernel versions, linux-next: next-20100614, mainline 2.6: 2.6.35-rc3, snapshot 2.6: 2.6.35-rc2-git6, stable 2.6: 2.6.34    , stable 2.6.33: 2.6.33.5  , stable 2.6.32: 2.6.32.15 , stable 2.6.31: 2.6.31.13 , stable 2.6.27: 2.6.27.47 , stable 2.4.37: 2.4.37.9
Jun 14 20:14:02 <b-man> heh
Jun 14 20:14:13 * flailingmonkey reads h-e-n mailing list
Jun 14 20:14:30 * b-man resumes fixing his broken sdk
Jun 14 20:14:43 * MohammadAG51 fixes his SDK on each reboot
Jun 14 20:14:54 <flailingmonkey> DocAvalanche, any news about jrbme?
Jun 14 20:14:57 <SuRfDeMoN> Hi, I've made a qt4 & python app that I can run from terminal using run-standalone.sh python app.py however I would like to have it run from an icon on the desktop, does anyone know how I can do this ?
Jun 14 20:15:26 <MohammadAG51> .desktop file
Jun 14 20:15:43 <xDaReaperx> the apps in extras-testing are not safe to install right ?
Jun 14 20:15:53 <DocAvalanche> yeah, I'm postponing that to cure infobot from damage done by fools
Jun 14 20:16:57 <MohammadAG51> :/
Jun 14 20:17:03 <flailingmonkey> :-p no more karma then
Jun 14 20:17:19 <alterego> I'd quite like to integrate sshfs into the default filemanager ...
Jun 14 20:17:38 <flailingmonkey> lets do it
Jun 14 20:17:52 <alterego> What does filemanager do to check mounts?
Jun 14 20:17:57 <alterego> Is it vfs?
Jun 14 20:18:17 <flailingmonkey> isn't it just udev?
Jun 14 20:18:47 <flailingmonkey> well, we can see its code on gitoreous
Jun 14 20:18:54 <alterego> No, udev will trigger a mount.
Jun 14 20:19:08 <flailingmonkey> maybe it looks in /media?
Jun 14 20:19:23 <SuRfDeMoN> MohammadAG51: where is the .desktop file?
Jun 14 20:19:23 <alterego> I was wondring if anyone knew offhand rather than me needing to research :)
Jun 14 20:19:26 <joga> I tried sshfs once with n900 but when the network connection hung, the whole device pretty much hung when something started to wait for it
Jun 14 20:19:57 <lardman> is qt.nokia.com down for other people
Jun 14 20:19:58 <lardman> ?
Jun 14 20:20:07 <joga> so I deemed that at least with default configuration it made the device pretty much unusable
Jun 14 20:20:26 <joga> (I'd like to use it though, maybe I'll try later with more thinking)
Jun 14 20:20:42 <lpotter> lardman: works here
Jun 14 20:20:59 <alterego> flailingmonkey: yeah, it checks for mounted dirs under /media (just mounted tempfs under it)
Jun 14 20:21:03 <lardman> lpotter: thanks, perhaps it was just my laptop playing sillybuggers
Jun 14 20:21:06 <flailingmonkey> would having / access throug filemanager be nice?
Jun 14 20:21:17 <flailingmonkey> *through
Jun 14 20:21:36 <MohammadAGRX-51> not really
Jun 14 20:21:38 <alterego> Not really
Jun 14 20:21:38 <joga> bind mount to /media? ;)
Jun 14 20:21:46 <alterego> Heh
Jun 14 20:21:51 <MohammadAG51> copycat
Jun 14 20:22:02 <joga> if I need to mess with / I use the shell anyway
Jun 14 20:22:44 <joga> but sometimes the "N900" is a bit confusing
Jun 14 20:22:45 <flailingmonkey> thats been my impression, that people who need to muck about use terminal, and those that don't need to are a bit likely to break things
Jun 14 20:22:56 * MohammadAG51 reminds #maemo someone deleted /usr cause it used up too much space
Jun 14 20:23:05 <joga> hehe
Jun 14 20:23:17 * flailingmonkey is aghast
Jun 14 20:23:19 <lardman> that's ok, you only need /bin and /lib ;)
Jun 14 20:24:56 <alterego> lardman: not if you want xterm or ssh access :P
Jun 14 20:25:16 <lardman> well, yeah..
Jun 14 20:25:19 <lardman> :)
Jun 14 20:25:45 <joga> but if you have them in memory..
Jun 14 20:25:48 <DocAvalanche> alterego: flailingmonkey: please consider http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/cuteexplorer/
Jun 14 20:26:12 <DocAvalanche> HFM is broken by design
Jun 14 20:26:32 <killefiz> I think I need help. My n900 had errors on the internal flash ( http://fpaste.org/vzPF/ ). I took it to a nokia shop, they sent it somewhere, I got to wait three weeks and now it's back with the same error :(
Jun 14 20:27:05 <joga> killefiz :/
Jun 14 20:27:07 <DocAvalanche> flailingmonkey: and I completely disagree with MohammadAG51 on usefulness of access to /
Jun 14 20:27:27 <killefiz> can anyone think of anything I could do to convince the repair center that this is an issue that they cannot "fix" by  reflashing the device?
Jun 14 20:28:23 <MohammadAG51> DocAvalanche, I hate you too mate :)
Jun 14 20:28:36 <DocAvalanche> MohammadAG51: how could user 'user' break things when he's got a filehandle to / ?? o.O Is maemo really that fsckdup wrt permissions??
Jun 14 20:28:46 <lardman> killefiz: run fsck on the device?
Jun 14 20:28:53 <DocAvalanche> flailingmonkey: ^^^ to you too
Jun 14 20:29:01 <MohammadAG51> DocAvalanche, err, users know how to launch an app as root
Jun 14 20:29:20 <DocAvalanche> MohammadAG51: so WHAT??
Jun 14 20:29:39 <DocAvalanche> that's an absolute BS argument
Jun 14 20:29:42 <MohammadAG51> DocAvalanche, we don't need more shit on tmo, it's bad as it is already
Jun 14 20:29:54 <DocAvalanche> uhuh
Jun 14 20:31:04 <MohammadAG51> the only thing / access is useful for is to download files through microb
Jun 14 20:31:10 <MohammadAG51> actually
Jun 14 20:31:15 <MohammadAG51> hildon-fm is fscked up
Jun 14 20:31:25 <MohammadAG51> I couldn't copy to a USB stick with it
Jun 14 20:31:57 <mece> MohammadAG51, actually, hildon-fm would be nice for opening files too, if it had / access.
Jun 14 20:32:15 <MohammadAG51> mount --bind / onto somewhere on media
Jun 14 20:32:26 <mece> anyway, bye.
Jun 14 20:32:32 <killefiz> lardman: how am I supposed to fsck the /home partition?
Jun 14 20:32:36 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 14 20:32:46 <MohammadAG51> reboot I guess
Jun 14 20:32:52 <MohammadAG51> not sure if it works on maemo
Jun 14 20:32:52 <DocAvalanche> MohammadAG51: no!!! we already have enough BS on maemo
Jun 14 20:33:04 <MohammadAG51> but touch /forcefsck works on Ubuntu
Jun 14 20:33:18 <greenfly> only the superuser should be allowed to fsck
Jun 14 20:34:07 <lardman> killefiz: it will probably not make Hildon very happy, but ssh in, become root and umount the device
Jun 14 20:34:14 <lardman> at least that's what I'd try
Jun 14 20:34:33 <DocAvalanche> greenfly: and that's what exactly now? the postscriptum under the fsck manpage?
Jun 14 20:34:55 <greenfly> DocAvalanche: just general common-sense role separation
Jun 14 20:35:16 <DocAvalanche> as done on every sane Unix installation since 1972
Jun 14 20:35:37 <crashanddie> [citation needed]
Jun 14 20:36:06 <greenfly> the fsck command requires write access to that partition's device
Jun 14 20:36:21 <greenfly> (and of course read access)
Jun 14 20:36:33 * DocAvalanche *yawn*
Jun 14 20:36:35 <greenfly> if you have that level of access you can bypass any access control on the file system itself
Jun 14 20:36:48 <killefiz> lardman: but what is that going to get me? I\m pretty sure that it's a hardware issue - don't you think?
Jun 14 20:37:22 <valdyn> killefiz: your paste is broken
Jun 14 20:37:29 <greenfly> *shrug* I thought this was common knowledge
Jun 14 20:37:31 <lardman> yeah, but it's probably just some part of the flash drive being knackered, so at least that would mark the region and let you get on with life
Jun 14 20:37:42 * flailingmonkey came back
Jun 14 20:37:49 <DocAvalanche> greenfly: so WHY do you quote it then??
Jun 14 20:38:25 <valdyn> alterego: firefox is in ovi store.
Jun 14 20:38:36 <greenfly> DocAvalanche: someone talked about wanting to fsck /home as a user, and when I explained why that was a bad idea, you seemed to not understand, so I was trying to help explain why
Jun 14 20:39:45 <joga> how would you even fsck as a user?
Jun 14 20:39:53 <joga> especially your own home
Jun 14 20:40:07 <DocAvalanche> greenfly: that's not a bad idea, that's a silly idea as it simply won't work
Jun 14 20:40:10 <greenfly> joga: you'd have to have rw access to /dev/whatever
Jun 14 20:40:19 <joga> greenfly: but that's not really good :)
Jun 14 20:40:26 <greenfly> joga: agreed :)
Jun 14 20:40:27 <Arkenoi> file-roller conflicts with gnome-nettool
Jun 14 20:40:31 <joga> and you can fsck a read-only filesystem too, but not fix the errors
Jun 14 20:40:54 <joga> (a mounted one, I mean)
Jun 14 20:41:30 <DocAvalanche> jgfsck "your own home" is a meaningless statement. You can fsck volumes only
Jun 14 20:41:54 <joga> DocAvalanche, well I meant the filesystem where home resides on, in this case the flash
Jun 14 20:42:11 <joga> (or, a partition on the flash) ;)
Jun 14 20:42:17 <DocAvalanche> joga: fsck...
Jun 14 20:42:53 <DocAvalanche> joga: that filesystem is not "your own whatever" so this will fail
Jun 14 20:42:57 <killefiz> lardman: no - I want a working device - I  paid 600 EUR for this thing
Jun 14 20:43:35 <DocAvalanche> joga: refer to a good howto about permissions under Unix
Jun 14 20:43:36 <killefiz> valdyn: what is wrong with it? Works fine for me - http://fpaste.org/vzPF/
Jun 14 20:43:44 <flailingmonkey> tell him what the fsck flag is for read-only, so he can see if there are even any problems it would be able to fix
Jun 14 20:43:45 <joga> DocAvalanche: I think you're just misinterpreting me
Jun 14 20:44:52 <valdyn> killefiz: The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Jun 14 20:45:03 <joga> funny, works for me too..
Jun 14 20:45:04 <valdyn> killefiz: "Apache Server at fpaste.org Port 80"
Jun 14 20:46:39 <joga> valdyn: try this http://pastebin.com/bAyDLJHx
Jun 14 20:46:49 <valdyn> joga: i see, the server works
Jun 14 20:46:52 <killefiz> joga: thanks
Jun 14 20:46:59 <valdyn> joga: but theres a broken router, i know its not mine
Jun 14 20:47:21 <joga> I guess, if it works for us
Jun 14 20:47:29 <valdyn> joga: i can load it
Jun 14 20:47:40 <valdyn> joga: but squid breaks it
Jun 14 20:47:47 <joga> ok
Jun 14 20:48:29 <flailingmonkey> is anyone other than Tommi Asp working on cuteexplorer?
Jun 14 20:52:34 <SuRfDeMoN> adding a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications crashed my n900 luckily restarting it made it come back to life, does anyone have a link to a good tutorial on how to put a shortcut to a python qt app on the desktop ?
Jun 14 20:52:41 <flailingmonkey> DocAvalanche: you said hfm is broken by design, but didn't elaborate. where does it fail?
Jun 14 20:54:39 <alterego> flailingmonkey: he thinks that because Nokia made it intentionally locked down for normal users it's broken by that design.
Jun 14 20:55:16 <alterego> Hiding the OS is a very good idea for normal users and it has a pretty similar UX to the symbian fm
Jun 14 20:56:11 <greenfly> *shrug* having a package to get you root easily available in a non-development repo I think is a good tradeoff with giving people who know the access they need, and acknowledging (by installing the package) that they have some sense of the implications
Jun 14 20:56:22 <greenfly> everyone else requires you to jailbreak stuff
Jun 14 20:58:32 <alterego> indeed, I just like things not being cluttered.
Jun 14 20:59:08 <alterego> The filemanager is fine for my user data, everything else I use sshfs from my laptop as root on the device or terminal.
Jun 14 21:02:58 <joga> SuRfDeMoN, hmm, I've never had problem doing those..
Jun 14 21:03:42 <joga> SuRfDeMoN: http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format ?
Jun 14 21:03:57 <DocAvalanche> alterego: guess why I don't own a symbian phone. Do we really aim at mimicking symbian?? That's not the rationale I had for getting a linux based device
Jun 14 21:04:25 <greenfly> aren't there other GUI file managers that let you see the full system?
Jun 14 21:04:41 <DocAvalanche> and "hiding the OS" is another meaningless statement
Jun 14 21:04:53 <DocAvalanche> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/cuteexplorer/
Jun 14 21:05:02 <greenfly> DocAvalanche: does that not work for you?
Jun 14 21:05:09 <SuRfDeMoN> joga: its my first python app, I copied a .desktop file and then altered it to point at my app, it kept closing when trying to open and once froze the device but now it seems to be working, I moved app from /home/user/ to /usr/share/
Jun 14 21:05:24 <SuRfDeMoN> joga: I was guessing it might be the apps location upsetting things
Jun 14 21:05:55 <SuRfDeMoN> joga:  thanks for the url I will have a look at that :)
Jun 14 21:05:59 <DocAvalanche> greenfly: you're stating the obvious and asking questions I don't even know what's the meaning of them
Jun 14 21:06:13 <greenfly> DocAvalanche: that app doesn't provide the functionality you want?
Jun 14 21:06:31 <DocAvalanche> how is that related? to anything we discuss here?
Jun 14 21:06:40 <greenfly> because it seems you are complaining about defaults. it's like complaining because you don't like the blue theme
Jun 14 21:06:43 <greenfly> change it.
Jun 14 21:06:49 <greenfly> that's the beauty of the n900, you have options
Jun 14 21:06:57 <DocAvalanche> greenfly: stop trolling
Jun 14 21:06:58 <greenfly> if you don't like the default file browser, use another one
Jun 14 21:07:14 <greenfly> I don't see why it's such a big deal
Jun 14 21:07:52 <DocAvalanche> I never complained about *my* user experience. I suggested to flailingmonkey to have a look at http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/cuteexplorer/ as HFM is borked and braindamaged
Jun 14 21:07:54 <greenfly> and there's nothing more "linux" than having 10 different programs that perform the same function simply because people can't agree on defaults
Jun 14 21:08:14 <Venemo> sorry, please enlighten me
Jun 14 21:08:17 <greenfly> DocAvalanche: fair enough, I don't know the background of this whole drama
Jun 14 21:08:20 <Venemo> what's the problem with hfm?
Jun 14 21:08:23 <DocAvalanche> greenfly: so please stop playing cpt obvious
Jun 14 21:09:03 <greenfly> DocAvalanche: sounds like you are overreacting to refer to a default not being how you like as borked and braindamaged
Jun 14 21:09:14 <greenfly> fair enough to say you disagree with the design decision
Jun 14 21:09:32 <greenfly> but I think you are reaching when you go too much beyond that and start to sound like all the "dealbreaker" people
Jun 14 21:10:24 <Venemo> brb
Jun 14 21:10:30 <DocAvalanche> greenfly: quite some people blamed me several time for I'd not be supposed to ignore anybody, as a chanop. I'm temped to ignore that rule, for you
Jun 14 21:10:32 <alterego> Yeah, what about it is brain damaged? I think it's pretty much functional as it's supposed to be ...
Jun 14 21:11:14 <alterego> Maybe not compared to nautilus though :)
Jun 14 21:11:17 <greenfly> eh, I don't mean to hassle you, I thought you wanted to talk about it
Jun 14 21:11:19 <greenfly> I'll drop it
Jun 14 21:11:53 <DocAvalanche> alterego: missing extensions
Jun 14 21:12:06 <MohammadAG51> nautilus, I want that on my N900
Jun 14 21:12:28 <DocAvalanche> yust to strart with, and I assure you there's so much more I don't bother to count it
Jun 14 21:12:33 <greenfly> MohammadAG51: hmm, anyone see how well it performs with easydebian?
Jun 14 21:12:54 <MohammadAG51> idk, haven't used easy debian much
Jun 14 21:13:14 <MohammadAG51> I'll look for an old version that uses the old gtk
Jun 14 21:13:18 <MohammadAG51> might build it
Jun 14 21:13:23 <alterego> DocAvalanche: you're talking about that "bug" where you can't differentiate between two files with the same name except file extension?
Jun 14 21:13:27 <greenfly> I haven't tried nautilus on a 600Mhz machine since probably gnome 1.x :)
Jun 14 21:13:30 <DocAvalanche> alterego: each decent FM has OPTIONS so user can *configure* skin to his needs
Jun 14 21:13:47 <DocAvalanche> alterego: yes
Jun 14 21:14:03 <alterego> I don't really think that's a bug tbh,
Jun 14 21:14:23 <greenfly> alterego: I get the feeling he doesn't want to talk about it
Jun 14 21:14:39 <alterego> Sure, maybe you could have a toggle for turning extensions
Jun 14 21:14:50 <alterego> But it's hardly a major problem, imo.
Jun 14 21:15:01 <DocAvalanche> alterego: see the OSX filemanager. It does similar "hiding of OS", but it doesn't LOCK IN the user, as you got the chance to hit ^G and jump arbitrary location in fs tree
Jun 14 21:15:06 <flailingmonkey> DocAvalanche, file extensions got patched in by mece actually
Jun 14 21:15:23 <DocAvalanche> I know that
Jun 14 21:15:39 <shorter> when I just start up with no other apps running, conky shows like 20% cpu load... is this normal?
Jun 14 21:15:40 <DocAvalanche> he asked me if it's a good thing
Jun 14 21:15:56 <joga> shorter: what's taking it?
Jun 14 21:15:59 <flailingmonkey> its part of my mad scheme to stablely release updates to open components of Maemo 5 metapackage
Jun 14 21:16:22 <shorter> right now mostly hildon-desktop
Jun 14 21:16:37 <shorter> but that's at 7% @ 250mhz
Jun 14 21:16:45 <vldcnst> X-Fade: here?
Jun 14 21:17:12 <DocAvalanche> alterego: even M$ file explorer has a config option to show full pathnames and extensions
Jun 14 21:17:37 <joga> shorter: seems I have about the same, idle
Jun 14 21:17:41 <joga> (conky visible)
Jun 14 21:18:10 <shorter> maybe I should reboot again and see what was taking so much for the first minute or so
Jun 14 21:18:22 <joga> I guess it's mostly because it's showing conky
Jun 14 21:18:37 <alterego> DocAvalanche: this isn't a desktop, can you, using user apps, create two files that cause you to have this problem in hfm?
Jun 14 21:18:41 <joga> Xorg is 8% atm
Jun 14 21:18:43 <DocAvalanche> I DO NOT think we should take all these FMs as a template and example, but when you start to point at "random FOO OS does it, so it's a good thing" then please take in account all those random foo OS FM have a way to escape that fsckng scheme
Jun 14 21:19:01 <vldcnst> ~seen sopi
Jun 14 21:19:02 <GAN900> DocAvalanche, I'd just as soon not complain.
Jun 14 21:19:05 <infobot> sopi <n=sopi@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 235d 8h 24m 6s ago, saying: 'yeah, that's the plan..'.
Jun 14 21:19:15 <GAN900> DocAvalanche, we've seen what sort of shit Nokia churns out.
Jun 14 21:19:29 <flailingmonkey> DocAvalanche, cuteexplorer needs a lot of work :-(
Jun 14 21:19:31 <GAN900> Leave them to do whatever they like and provide your own.
Jun 14 21:20:10 <DocAvalanche> just HFM doesn't *and* it's hardcoded to the fileselector lib, which renders the whole Hildon braindamaged with respect to that, as every app using that fileselector widget is similarly limited and restricted and brainfucked
Jun 14 21:20:34 <joga> DocAvalanche: well, that does sound worse than it should
Jun 14 21:20:39 <alterego> DocAvalanche: but consistant :P
Jun 14 21:21:10 <alterego> Like I said, can you use a user app to cause this issue you have in hfm?
Jun 14 21:21:40 <alterego> Sure, I can do it using the xterm, but how many apps actually cause this issue for a normal user, or even yourself?
Jun 14 21:22:25 <shorter> I set a root password when i was installing something (I think rootsh) - but using 'sudo' seems to not use that password?
Jun 14 21:22:41 <joga> shorter: sudo asks the user's password
Jun 14 21:22:43 <zash> shorter: sudo uses your passwd
Jun 14 21:23:03 <shorter> oh, don't remember setting one
Jun 14 21:23:44 <joga> does it ask a password then?
Jun 14 21:23:45 <DocAvalanche> alterego: you honestly suggest you're able to invent a whole new pragma about how to use names in a filesystem?
Jun 14 21:23:57 <shorter> it asks, but i never set one
Jun 14 21:23:59 <DocAvalanche> a consisten one that's better than what we got now
Jun 14 21:24:01 <DocAvalanche> ?
Jun 14 21:24:30 <joga> shorter: with "sudo su" for example?
Jun 14 21:25:17 <shorter> sudo su just returns
Jun 14 21:25:19 <DocAvalanche> when I download a file via microB and it has the wrong file extension, e.g .pdf.part instead of .pdf, what are you going to do with your brilliant new scheme to lock in user and hide real world from him?
Jun 14 21:25:30 <joga> shorter: and whoami tells you're user?
Jun 14 21:25:32 <shorter> oh, it is blank i guess
Jun 14 21:25:41 <shorter> yes
Jun 14 21:25:45 <joga> hmm.
Jun 14 21:25:54 <joga> I get a root shell with sudo su
Jun 14 21:26:00 <shorter> yeah sudo su -> leave it blank - > returns
Jun 14 21:26:05 <shorter> but doesn't give me root
Jun 14 21:26:37 <shorter> is rootsh meant to replace both?
Jun 14 21:26:45 <joga> I haven't set a password for the user, I recall it might not have been a good thing to do, but can't remember. I've set a root password though and use it for ssh if I need to
Jun 14 21:26:45 <DocAvalanche> shorter: on maemo/messybox it's called 'root', not 'sudo su'
Jun 14 21:27:04 <joga> DocAvalanche: I usually do use root, now I just tried sudo su and got root anyway
Jun 14 21:27:05 <shorter> also, did you guys install bash3?
Jun 14 21:27:16 <joga> hmm...nope
Jun 14 21:27:17 <DocAvalanche> su doesn't work
Jun 14 21:27:50 <DocAvalanche> as su is just a symlink to busybox, and you can't set SUID a symlink
Jun 14 21:28:01 * MohammadAG51 has it set
Jun 14 21:28:11 <MohammadAG51> i'm a smartass xD
Jun 14 21:28:11 <shorter> what's hildon-desktop?
Jun 14 21:28:14 <joga> so it just starts a shell...well, anyway :)
Jun 14 21:28:26 <joga> shorter: the desktop
Jun 14 21:28:44 <joga> I think? I'm not sure what hildon-home does actually and what does -desktop do
Jun 14 21:29:19 <pigeon> anyone using /usr/bin/gnu/rm from coreutils-gnu on the n900?
Jun 14 21:29:49 <alterego> DocAvalanche: fuck yes extensions are a peice of shit DOSism
Jun 14 21:30:35 <alterego> You don't need 'em, I long for ADFS days :(
Jun 14 21:30:55 <microlith> ADFS?
Jun 14 21:31:18 <alterego> FS used in Acorn Computers' :P
Jun 14 21:31:36 <pigeon> there's a very weird thing going on here: touch abc; /usr/bin/gnu/rm -i abc , after saying "y", i always get "rm: cannot remove `àá\001': No such file or directory"
Jun 14 21:31:54 <alterego> Anyhow, .pdf.part, does that look like a pdf in the filemanager? because I thought your issue was to do with mimetypes ..
Jun 14 21:32:27 <alterego> How many people use windows and have extensions off, well, most ..
Jun 14 21:33:00 <microlith> which has proven to be a liability :)
Jun 14 21:33:11 <alterego> microlith: indeed :)
Jun 14 21:33:27 <alterego> But that, is, because of extensions in the first place.
Jun 14 21:33:29 <Venemo> huh, I always turn showing extensions on
Jun 14 21:34:16 <joga> Venemo: heh it's something I do so often at work it's automatic :)
Jun 14 21:34:31 <microlith> alterego: but is there any documented means of storing the mime type of a file inside of it such that it works cross platform?
Jun 14 21:34:47 <alterego> microlith: nope :)
Jun 14 21:35:09 <alterego> Not without outside encapsulation again, some kind of metadata.
Jun 14 21:35:35 <microlith> and metadata works, but only if it travels with the file
Jun 14 21:36:23 <alterego> Anyhow, this convo has got a bit boring, my stance is: I don't like fileextensions, it's a stupid DOSism that should never have been created. filenames should just be names.
Jun 14 21:36:37 <svanheulen> extentions are basically metadata...
Jun 14 21:36:56 <microlith> human-readable metadata :)
Jun 14 21:37:06 <Venemo> alterego: well, but then how would you tell filetypes apart?
Jun 14 21:37:33 <svanheulen> microlith: does that make a difference?
Jun 14 21:37:35 <alterego> that said, there is no getting rid of them at the moment. but I don't think on a device like the N900 or any phone right now should have a file manager that shows them.
Jun 14 21:37:48 <alterego> Well, that has to show them.
Jun 14 21:38:04 <alterego> Uness maybe they're not known types :)
Jun 14 21:38:08 <Venemo> :)
Jun 14 21:38:20 <microlith> svanheulen: in some cases, yes
Jun 14 21:38:33 <alterego> anyhow, I'm off bbl
Jun 14 21:38:35 <svanheulen> microlith: like?
Jun 14 21:38:57 <microlith> svanheulen: I throw you a file, binary, with no extension. how do you determine what it is?
Jun 14 21:39:39 <Venemo> microlith: agreed
Jun 14 21:39:51 <svanheulen> microlith: well that was kind of my point, why woud anyone say metadata was more useful then an extention
Jun 14 21:39:58 <joga> microlith: with 'file' :)
Jun 14 21:40:20 <svanheulen> you as a user need to have some indication as to what program will be opening the file
Jun 14 21:40:32 <microlith> joga: suppose, for a moment, that you don't have access to file ;)
Jun 14 21:41:13 <joga> I remember 4dos has file_id.diz which had the descriptions of all files in the directory, and the dir command would show them on another column
Jun 14 21:41:31 <microlith> really?
Jun 14 21:41:38 <inz> yes
Jun 14 21:41:42 <microlith> I always wondered what that file meant
Jun 14 21:41:42 <joga> it's not the same thing, really, but it could just as well show the metadata like that
Jun 14 21:42:19 <crashanddie> files should be opened based on content, not extension.
Jun 14 21:42:48 <crashanddie> extensions are a stupid invention, a clever, yes, but really useless now -- considering the speeds you get from disks
Jun 14 21:42:57 <svanheulen> crashanddie: well yes, of course, but the user still needs to know what will open it
Jun 14 21:43:08 <crashanddie> and that's the role of the UI, not the extension.
Jun 14 21:43:58 <svanheulen> well how will the ui know? should it be able to parse every known file type?
Jun 14 21:44:08 <crashanddie> no
Jun 14 21:44:16 <MohammadAG51> mimetypes
Jun 14 21:44:23 <crashanddie> the file should just have a descriptive field in it. Mimetypes exist for a reason.
Jun 14 21:45:15 <svanheulen> but that can be manipulated just as easily as an extention so it's not like that makes it any more accurate
Jun 14 21:47:04 <shorter> anyone use offline dictionaries here?
Jun 14 21:47:26 <shorter> http://xdxf.revdanica.com/down2/index.php?lang_fr=122&lang_to=any&guy=any&order_by=bytes_qntt&down_format=StarDict&info_limit=256 this page is pretty cool, but I'm not sure of the sources and I'd like to find the newest versions of these dicts
Jun 14 21:47:28 <svanheulen> i'm not saying extentions are awesome or anything but any sort of metadata or mimetype will have the same problems
Jun 14 21:47:35 <joga> heh, well I did consider downloading wikipedia with evopedia
Jun 14 21:49:47 <shorter> all of it?
Jun 14 21:49:48 <shorter> lol
Jun 14 21:49:56 <shorter> (not that that couldn't be done)
Jun 14 21:51:07 <Venemo> shorter: there are wikipedia snapshots
Jun 14 21:51:57 <shorter> yep
Jun 14 21:52:06 <shorter> forgot their size though
Jun 14 21:59:34 <joga> shorter: the finnish wikipedia wasn't even that big, and I think even the whole english one would fit on the device and there would be gigs left
Jun 14 21:59:48 <joga> not sure if evopedia can handle them compressed or not
Jun 14 22:00:29 <Venemo> joga: do you remember my question in the afternoon?
Jun 14 22:00:38 <Noma> the whole English Wikipedia database was 12GB in march 2009
Jun 14 22:00:51 <Noma> and 14GB in January 2010
Jun 14 22:01:23 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Jun 14 22:01:24 <Noma> http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesDatabaseSize.htm
Jun 14 22:01:27 <joga> Venemo: sort of, but it's not really my expertise so all I could do is read the code and google a bit :) and I need to sleep now myself
Jun 14 22:01:31 <Venemo> trem: you too
Jun 14 22:01:43 <Venemo> joga: okay, sorry to bother you :)
Jun 14 22:01:53 <joga> np, good night
Jun 14 22:03:13 <joga> (btw, I've noticed that the eggtimer from ovi is a pretty nice snooze alarm ;)
Jun 14 22:03:28 <joga> putting a few minutes extra is so hard with the default alarms thingy
Jun 14 22:03:43 <Venemo> click on snooze
Jun 14 22:03:48 <Venemo> or turn it upside down
Jun 14 22:03:58 <joga> that snoozes it?
Jun 14 22:04:02 <joga> (who reads manuals)
Jun 14 22:04:03 <Venemo> yeah
Jun 14 22:04:21 <joga> do I turn it up again to snooze more? ;p
Jun 14 22:04:22 <Venemo> I noticed it accidentally
Jun 14 22:05:13 <Venemo> when you wanna snooze it again, just turn it around again
Jun 14 22:05:17 <Venemo> try it :P
Jun 14 22:05:23 <joga> well, anyway, the eggtimer you can just click to buzz after some time, so when you're sleepy it's easier ;)
Jun 14 22:05:34 <joga> (if I want like 4 min extra instead of 10)
Jun 14 22:05:35 <joga> heh
Jun 14 22:05:38 <joga> I'll try :)
Jun 14 22:05:44 <Venemo> k
Jun 14 22:05:49 <joga> ...in 5:55
Jun 14 22:06:06 <joga> gnight
Jun 14 22:06:13 <Venemo> you too
Jun 14 22:08:27 <lovelyboy> hi, could anyone tell me how i might know which meamo version am using?
Jun 14 22:08:48 <Venemo> App menu -> settings app -> Product version
Jun 14 22:09:23 <lovelyboy> About Product?
Jun 14 22:09:42 <Venemo> yes
Jun 14 22:09:45 <Venemo> that is it
Jun 14 22:10:09 <lovelyboy> It says Meamo 5 Version 3.2010.02-8.203.1
Jun 14 22:10:20 <lovelyboy> it it the latest version?
Jun 14 22:10:38 <Venemo> the latest is 10.2010.19-1
Jun 14 22:11:10 <lovelyboy> alright, how could i update it then?
Jun 14 22:11:28 <vldcnst> Either OTA or flashing the newest firmware.
Jun 14 22:12:07 <lovelyboy> ic, i got the website of guide for flashing the firmware
Jun 14 22:12:07 <Venemo> connect the device to the net -> app manager -> hit update
Jun 14 22:13:01 <DocAvalanche> if that fails then you still can use flasher
Jun 14 22:13:49 <vldcnst> lovelyboy: read http://wiki.maemo.org/Seamless_Software_Update and http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware
Jun 14 22:13:52 <DocAvalanche> or you say "screwit, 3h of updating via SSU - nooo, I go for flashing right away as it takes 30s"
Jun 14 22:14:14 <lovelyboy> i will take a look
Jun 14 22:17:20 <marmoute> Is there any log file for the maemo's mailer ? I can't get it do TLS auth for of 587 smtp port.
Jun 14 22:18:19 <Venemo> you're better off with webmail, believe me
Jun 14 22:21:34 * flailingmonkey missed a lot
Jun 14 22:50:20 <lbt> Jaffa: around?
Jun 14 22:54:52 <vldcnst> X-Fade: here?
Jun 14 23:02:32 <lcuk> and now for something completely different
Jun 14 23:02:35 <lcuk>      
Jun 14 23:02:35 <lcuk>     I hope to hear from you soon.
Jun 14 23:02:35 <lcuk>      
Jun 14 23:02:35 <lcuk>     Respectfully
Jun 14 23:02:35 <lcuk>      
Jun 14 23:02:36 <lcuk>     Mr. Lei
Jun 14 23:02:38 <lcuk> i hope you don't mind, but i printed off this mail and used a copy to wipe my arse with
Jun 14 23:02:40 <lcuk> have a nice day
Jun 14 23:02:42 <lcuk> Gary
Jun 14 23:03:09 <zash> :D
Jun 14 23:03:17 <lcuk> (20million spam email)
Jun 14 23:03:55 <SpeedEvil> You should be more culturally sensitive.
Jun 14 23:04:04 <SpeedEvil> In some countries, that is high praise.
Jun 14 23:04:13 <lcuk> haha
Jun 14 23:04:35 <lcuk> i will gladly praise them again
Jun 14 23:04:46 <lcuk> as long as i dont run out of that soft printer paper
Jun 14 23:07:17 <Macer> trauma is awesome
Jun 14 23:07:18 <Macer> some vietnam vet stole the med helo
Jun 14 23:20:02 <lardman> night all
Jun 14 23:29:30 <alterego> It'd be nice if you could reorganise your windows in the dashboard view :)
Jun 14 23:30:24 <vldcnst> ~alterego--
Jun 14 23:33:00 <Venemo> alterego: agreed
Jun 14 23:33:51 <alterego> I can't believe you reduce my karma for that, why?
Jun 14 23:34:06 <alterego> curses! to you and your mom
Jun 14 23:34:18 <vldcnst> hey! not mummy!
Jun 14 23:35:32 <alterego> I've not got my laptop so I've been using the N900 all day, it's a bit annoying that all my windows are all over the place, is it too bad I want to bring order to this chaos!!!
Jun 14 23:35:54 <alterego> I've had like an average of twelve apps open all day :(
Jun 14 23:36:20 <alterego> And I'm programming, using vi in x term on the friggin device :P
Jun 14 23:36:31 <SpeedEvil> There is already an alternate window manager.
Jun 14 23:36:32 <alterego> Give me a fuggin' break!!!
Jun 14 23:36:36 <SpeedEvil> apt-get install screen
Jun 14 23:36:39 <vldcnst> ~alterego--
Jun 14 23:36:42 <alterego> Heh
Jun 14 23:36:56 <vldcnst> calm down
Jun 14 23:37:04 <alterego> There is no screen :P
Jun 14 23:37:11 <SpeedEvil> I'd love a more configurable task switcher.
Jun 14 23:37:11 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: how is that?
Jun 14 23:37:12 <alterego> what repo? devel?
Jun 14 23:37:13 <tuliobaars> ello, please help!!!!
Jun 14 23:37:22 <tuliobaars> my n810 is almost dead!
Jun 14 23:37:33 <alterego> tuliobaars: how so?
Jun 14 23:37:35 <vldcnst> did you prepare a grave?
Jun 14 23:38:22 <tuliobaars> i've followed the installation guide for mer and it bricked my n810!
Jun 14 23:38:41 <SpeedEvil> One of these - http://pastebin.com/nmAx70KS
Jun 14 23:38:59 <tuliobaars> ols, i had seen that fanoush have an alternative rootfs and kernel for n810. How can i load it or installit?
Jun 14 23:39:09 <SpeedEvil> I diddn't think mer could be installed on 810
Jun 14 23:39:16 <SpeedEvil> But I know little of 810
Jun 14 23:39:31 <SpeedEvil> The above repos - one has screen.
Jun 14 23:39:35 <SpeedEvil> perhaps tools
Jun 14 23:39:39 <alterego> Mer was designed for the N810 SpeedEvil :P
Jun 14 23:39:52 <tuliobaars> OK, but pls, help me. I have some importamt data on n810, and it would be so bad if i lose it...
Jun 14 23:40:15 <SpeedEvil> aha
Jun 14 23:40:17 <SpeedEvil> Err http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free screen 4.0.3-0.3osso4+0m5
Jun 14 23:40:20 <tuliobaars> or even install MeeGo or Xubuntu, if possible
Jun 14 23:40:26 <alterego> initially at least, before it got scrapped, then retasked as probably the name of MeeGo on N810 and N900
Jun 14 23:40:42 <ohwhyme> so whos getting the n9
Jun 14 23:40:56 <tuliobaars> sorry, alterego?
Jun 14 23:41:02 <alterego> ohwhyme: there is no such thing.
Jun 14 23:41:13 <ohwhyme> :p
Jun 14 23:41:23 <tuliobaars> my n810 is rebooting and rebooting...
Jun 14 23:41:27 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: and what does this "screen" do?
Jun 14 23:41:37 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: It's a text-mode windowing system
Jun 14 23:41:44 <tuliobaars> pls, i have to take a snack, in 10min i get go back, ok?
Jun 14 23:42:15 <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Screen
Jun 14 23:42:27 <alterego> ohwhyme: but seriously, how do you expect anyone to comment on that, no one can make an informed decision with no information, I really don't want to commit myself to another purchase just yet tbh.
Jun 14 23:42:51 <ohwhyme> fair enough but the n8's hdmi looks pretty nice
Jun 14 23:42:52 <alterego> Venemo: it's like matchbox for x terminal :P
Jun 14 23:43:02 <SpeedEvil> It's not
Jun 14 23:43:02 <ohwhyme> I feel like I just got my n900
Jun 14 23:43:10 <SpeedEvil> It supports splitscreen
Jun 14 23:43:13 <SpeedEvil> ohwhyme: Indeed.
Jun 14 23:43:29 <alterego> SpeedEvil: so does matchbox ... with an axe
Jun 14 23:43:30 <vldcnst> terminal without screen = waste of time
Jun 14 23:43:30 <SpeedEvil> ohwhyme: Though I recently had to buy another 6 months of internets for her.
Jun 14 23:43:37 <ohwhyme> haha
Jun 14 23:43:42 <ohwhyme> i cant afford internet :D
Jun 14 23:44:18 <SpeedEvil> Fortunately - tmobile here sell it really quite cheap. 20 quid for 6 months
Jun 14 23:44:23 <SpeedEvil> (limited to 1G/mo)
Jun 14 23:44:38 <vldcnst> SpeedEvil: average speed?
Jun 14 23:44:38 <ohwhyme> is that pay as you go?
Jun 14 23:44:57 <ohwhyme> id do that if i were in england
Jun 14 23:45:48 <SpeedEvil> vldcnst: I can blow through the quota in 2h.
Jun 14 23:45:59 <SpeedEvil> vldcnst: 150kbytes/s
Jun 14 23:46:05 <SpeedEvil> ohwhyme: yes
Jun 14 23:46:25 <Venemo> lol
Jun 14 23:46:46 <Venemo> so this stuff gives me multiple terminals, right?
Jun 14 23:46:59 <vldcnst> SpeedEvil: thats so cheap. I get 4gb for 12eur/month, and that without dialing features (no number), but full speed.
Jun 14 23:47:06 <alterego> SpeedEvil: you talking about mobile broadb\and?
Jun 14 23:49:46 <SpeedEvil> alterego: yes.
Jun 14 23:50:24 <SpeedEvil> alterego: I got a (free) SIM - topped it up with 25 pounds, spent 20 of that on 6 months internet - and still have a generous 5 pounds left over for my calls and texts this year.
Jun 14 23:50:32 <SpeedEvil> Well - 4.23 now.
Jun 14 23:51:20 <alterego> What's the monthly qouta on that? I need to get a decent one as I'm going to get stitched by vodafone ..
Jun 14 23:51:27 <SpeedEvil> 1G/mo
Jun 14 23:51:35 <DocAvalanche> vldcnst: <vldcnst>~.*(\+\+|\-\-) == /kick
Jun 14 23:51:44 <SpeedEvil> But it's not a hard cap - and there are no overage charges.
Jun 14 23:51:54 <SpeedEvil> It's a 'we might slow you down if you exceed'
Jun 14 23:51:57 <alterego> Eesh, that is what I can negotiate with them, IK need more as it's my only internet connection :/
Jun 14 23:52:03 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: understood.
Jun 14 23:52:10 <SpeedEvil> ah.
Jun 14 23:52:14 <alterego> ah cool.
Jun 14 23:52:15 <ohwhyme> Speedevil: nice i think i will do that in england. I havent seen any tmobile stores tho
Jun 14 23:52:22 <SpeedEvil> They don't have as good options if you want more than that
Jun 14 23:52:33 <SpeedEvil> ohwhyme: they do it through teh website.
Jun 14 23:52:41 <SpeedEvil> Or there are quite a lot of shops. :)
Jun 14 23:53:26 <SpeedEvil> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/payg/boosters/ - is the relevant page - click on 'internet'
Jun 14 23:53:41 <ohwhyme> thanks man :)
Jun 14 23:54:33 <SpeedEvil> For obvious reasons, they seem to want to push monthly deals - which are lots more expensive. (comparatively)
Jun 14 23:54:45 <SpeedEvil> But may be the only option for >1G.
Jun 14 23:55:27 <alterego> :/ oh well, I'll wait until the time comes.
Jun 14 23:55:31 <kakashi_> Hi all, I have a small problem! I tried to install python as it was giving some errors using apt-get --fix-install, it removed a bunch of most important things, which is made it impossible to reboot
Jun 14 23:55:56 <kakashi_> I tried using flasher-3.5
Jun 14 23:56:19 <DocAvalanche> ~alterego++
Jun 14 23:56:32 <alterego> :)
Jun 14 23:56:45 <DocAvalanche> just to fix damage done by vldcnst
Jun 14 23:56:48 <kakashi_> it worked the first time, but again the phone didn't boot, I am again trying it but it keeps doing Suitable USB device not found, waiting.
Jun 14 23:56:49 <alterego> I think I deserve more after my activities today :P
Jun 14 23:56:55 <ohwhyme> how does the 20 pounds work? Can I pay via credit card?
Jun 14 23:57:09 <ohwhyme> cause you have to text that you want the 6 months internet
Jun 14 23:57:23 <Venemo> kakashi: you should reflash
Jun 14 23:57:25 <DocAvalanche> keep away from infobot karma concept! everybody!
Jun 14 23:57:35 <SpeedEvil> ~alterego!
Jun 14 23:57:36 <kakashi_> Venemo, how?
Jun 14 23:57:51 <Venemo> http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jun 14 23:57:51 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: Remove battery.
Jun 14 23:57:58 <kakashi_> done
Jun 14 23:58:01 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: Plug in USB
Jun 14 23:58:09 <kakashi_> ok
Jun 14 23:58:11 <SpeedEvil> start flasher - wait till it says 'waiting for suitable USB'
Jun 14 23:58:17 <SpeedEvil> now plug in battery
Jun 14 23:58:24 <SpeedEvil> ohwhyme: yes
Jun 14 23:58:42 <SpeedEvil> ohwhyme: credit card, or you can buy topup cards at various outlets.
Jun 14 23:58:55 <ohwhyme> does it work well?
Jun 14 23:59:23 <kakashi_> SpeedEvil, done, but, should I press U while putting the battery in?
Jun 14 23:59:34 <alterego> kakashi_: home
Jun 14 23:59:54 <kakashi_> alterego, home? which is that button?
Jun 15 00:01:00 <SpeedEvil> no need
Jun 15 00:01:09 <SpeedEvil> ohwhyme: works fine
Jun 15 00:01:45 <kakashi_> SpeedEvil, was that "no need" for me?
Jun 15 00:02:06 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: yes
Jun 15 00:02:15 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: if you do it that way, you don't need to hold u
Jun 15 00:03:47 <kakashi_> but it still says "Suitable USB device not found, waiting."
Jun 15 00:04:03 <SpeedEvil> What exactly did you do that made it not boot?
Jun 15 00:04:53 <kakashi_> I tried to use apt-get --fix-install python-2.5
Jun 15 00:05:07 <kakashi_> instead of installing, it removed a lot of stuff
Jun 15 00:05:18 <kakashi_> and then suddenly switched off
Jun 15 00:05:31 <kakashi_> then I tried flashing it
Jun 15 00:05:37 <kakashi_> it actually worked the first time
Jun 15 00:05:56 <DocAvalanche> is your battery charged up next to full?
Jun 15 00:06:08 <Venemo> good night guys
Jun 15 00:06:09 <kakashi_> I am not sure about the bettery charge
Jun 15 00:06:12 <Venemo> see you tomorrow
Jun 15 00:06:28 <kakashi_> battery*
Jun 15 00:06:54 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: do you see yellow flashing indicator when you plug in the switched off device to wallcharger?
Jun 15 00:06:58 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: and when exactly is that condition going to expire?
Jun 15 00:07:02 <kakashi_> yes
Jun 15 00:07:09 <DocAvalanche> vldcnst: never
Jun 15 00:07:17 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: formal protest
Jun 15 00:07:52 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, actually what happens when I connect is it keeps on giving a buzz sound and vibrates for a fraction of a second and the light blinks
Jun 15 00:07:57 <DocAvalanche> infobot karma wars are deprecated in this channel (actually in every channel I know of)
Jun 15 00:07:57 <infobot> wars are deprecated in this channel (actually in every channel i know of) has neutral karma
Jun 15 00:08:33 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, and yes, it is the yellow flash
Jun 15 00:08:53 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: I understand that, and I won't be using it anymore. I don't like being conditioned like that, tho.
Jun 15 00:08:54 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: let it charge until light changes to steady green
Jun 15 00:09:37 <DocAvalanche> vldcnst: noticed
Jun 15 00:09:52 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: conclusion?
Jun 15 00:09:56 <DocAvalanche> none
Jun 15 00:09:58 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, so after it turns green I reflash ?
Jun 15 00:10:06 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: informal protest!
Jun 15 00:10:20 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: yes
Jun 15 00:10:47 <DocAvalanche> vldcnst: <DocAvalanche> keep away from infobot karma concept! everybody!
Jun 15 00:11:12 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, but why does it keep giving a [buzz+vibrate] for a fraction of a second? any ideas?
Jun 15 00:11:30 <DocAvalanche> this is an arbitrary channel police. If you don't like it, complain at channel owner
Jun 15 00:11:55 <kakashi_> every 10 seconds I have a [buzz+vibrate] combo
Jun 15 00:12:11 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: that's really bad
Jun 15 00:12:22 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: alright. who needs karma anyway.
Jun 15 00:12:23 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: it will drain your battery
Jun 15 00:12:32 <kakashi_> uh!
Jun 15 00:13:04 <kakashi_> but the yellow light means that it is getting charged, right?
Jun 15 00:13:54 <kakashi_> so is there a chance of it getting fully charged with the [buzz+vibrate] active?
Jun 15 00:16:32 <DocAvalanche> no, it will *drain* your batery
Jun 15 00:16:44 <vldcnst> kakashi_: buzz + vibrate most probably means it's trying to boot into something, and from what I noticed that draws a lot of current from the battery, maybe the usb port won't supply enough power to actually charge the battery, if it's even charging in that state.
Jun 15 00:16:48 <DocAvalanche> probably
Jun 15 00:17:03 <konfoo> guys anyone have an idea what gstreamer pipeline qik is using for streaming video?
Jun 15 00:17:06 <DocAvalanche> vldcnst: exactly
Jun 15 00:17:50 <vldcnst> kakashi_: I suggest charging the battery in a different phone or using a different solution, and try then.
Jun 15 00:18:04 <tuliobaars> how can i load a rootfs and a kernel into n810 using ubuntu?
Jun 15 00:18:14 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: also means you *should* be able to enter flashing mode, as battery still holds enough charge to actually boot up the device
Jun 15 00:18:42 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, that might have been my mistake
Jun 15 00:19:11 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: try holding 'u' key
Jun 15 00:19:22 <kakashi_> I did, it doesn't work
Jun 15 00:19:34 <DocAvalanche> prior to plugin of device to PC
Jun 15 00:19:41 <DocAvalanche> :-S
Jun 15 00:20:08 <kakashi_> did that too and the cold way (usb --phone then battery)
Jun 15 00:20:14 <DocAvalanche> try to press 'u' immediately *after* plugin, then
Jun 15 00:20:33 <DocAvalanche> like, less than 1s
Jun 15 00:20:44 <kakashi_> okay
Jun 15 00:21:42 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: what's your PC OS?
Jun 15 00:21:50 <tuliobaars_> hey, is there any way to load an rootfs and a kernel into a n810?
Jun 15 00:22:09 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, Linux - Debian distro
Jun 15 00:22:21 <DocAvalanche> hmm, should work flawlessly
Jun 15 00:23:35 <kakashi_> no! the less than 1s doesn't work
Jun 15 00:23:42 <kakashi_> does it preserve the state?
Jun 15 00:23:49 <konfoo> ha
Jun 15 00:23:54 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: try sudo rmmod `lsmod | grep cdc_`
Jun 15 00:23:55 <konfoo> splicing the tape to pirate games
Jun 15 00:24:02 <konfoo> damn wrong channel
Jun 15 00:24:06 <konfoo> context: zx spectrum
Jun 15 00:24:11 <DocAvalanche> kahawhat do you mean by "preserve state"?
Jun 15 00:24:37 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: ^^
Jun 15 00:24:49 <tuliobaars_> hey, i need some help...please, my n810 is almost burning in fire...
Jun 15 00:25:08 <DocAvalanche> call fire brigade
Jun 15 00:25:34 <DocAvalanche> remove battery if you still can touch the device
Jun 15 00:25:36 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, I mean, the [buzz + vibrate] ---> is that happening because it has preserved that mode?
Jun 15 00:25:46 <tuliobaars_> thanks, but i guess it wouldn't help me at this time,, but thanks for the advice
Jun 15 00:26:11 <tuliobaars_> oh, it was at least at 65C°
Jun 15 00:27:14 <tuliobaars_> please, help ME!!!!
Jun 15 00:27:20 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: it's probably caused by some upstart scripts got messed up. I don't exactly get why NOLO (the bootloader) refuses to enter flashing mode though, as that should be independant of any filesystem mess that might have happened
Jun 15 00:27:53 <tuliobaars_> i'm not sure what i have to do...please, 5minutes of your life is not gonna kill anyone!
Jun 15 00:28:09 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, should I try charging the battery with some other phone and try that ?
Jun 15 00:28:43 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: aiui the NOLO bootloader is supposed to check for USB-cable&flasher and/or 'u' key pressed, and enter flashing mode before it decides to boot up any possibly borked system
Jun 15 00:28:57 <SpeedEvil> tuliobaars_: The problem is that most of the people active here don't have n810s
Jun 15 00:29:03 <SpeedEvil> tuliobaars_: So can't directly help
Jun 15 00:29:18 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: I would first try plugging into wallcharger
Jun 15 00:29:19 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: charging the battery might help. But *please* come back and report about success/fail after that
Jun 15 00:29:40 <tuliobaars_> why...
Jun 15 00:29:52 <tuliobaars_> where are the people with n810's.........
Jun 15 00:29:53 <kakashi_> SpeedEvil, I did try doing that, but then it has the same issue [buzz+vibrate]
Jun 15 00:29:58 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, sure I will do that
Jun 15 00:30:20 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: a possible explanation is your battery cell is worn out, so the voltage drops below threshold the very moment the device boots
Jun 15 00:30:34 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, possible
Jun 15 00:30:41 <DocAvalanche> this may happen on old battery cells
Jun 15 00:30:49 <SpeedEvil> DocAvalanche: I somewhat question that unless kakashi has been doing very oddthings.
Jun 15 00:30:55 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: How old is the cell?
Jun 15 00:30:58 <DocAvalanche> or if cell was mistreated
Jun 15 00:31:01 <SpeedEvil> true
Jun 15 00:31:11 <vldcnst> Or if it's a gold bl5j.
Jun 15 00:31:23 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: And it's a genuine nokia cell?
Jun 15 00:32:15 <b-man> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55888 < this thread is inspiring me to make a better email application for the N900
Jun 15 00:32:15 <SpeedEvil> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/06/14/2225251/Knuth-Got-It-Wrong - fun. On the disconnect between hardware and software people.
Jun 15 00:32:38 <SpeedEvil> Modest is opensource
Jun 15 00:32:52 <SpeedEvil> fix it, stick it in extras-devel as immodest
Jun 15 00:33:05 <b-man> lol
Jun 15 00:33:20 <b-man> i was thinking of using qt with it :)
Jun 15 00:33:22 <DocAvalanche> lol, but true
Jun 15 00:34:02 <kakashi_> SpeedEvil, -- I am not sure If I did oddthings or not, Cell is 6 months old and it is a genuine nokia cell which came with the phone,
Jun 15 00:34:28 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, well, I dropped the phone once, from my bed, but that shouldn't sustain injuries in any way
Jun 15 00:34:43 <b-man> DocAvalanche: yeah, the current email application has a lot that could be redone
Jun 15 00:34:56 <tuliobaars_> pls, i'm not gonna be asking and asking all the time: just tell me somebody that can help me, please
Jun 15 00:35:07 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: nope, that can not cause this issue
Jun 15 00:35:07 <tuliobaars_> with my n810 issues
Jun 15 00:36:14 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: except LiIon batteries themselves are prone to damage by impact, even moderately gentle impact
Jun 15 00:36:19 <tuliobaars_> hey!
Jun 15 00:36:24 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: Dropping it can cause issues. And yes, relatively small drops can kill it for some unlucky few
Jun 15 00:36:25 <vldcnst> tuliobaars_: best solution for you would be to ask here: http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=28
Jun 15 00:36:35 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: Do you own a voltmeter?
Jun 15 00:36:43 <kakashi_> nope :(
Jun 15 00:37:16 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: My first instinct would be to take it to a nokia repair place, and say 'won't turn on'
Jun 15 00:37:21 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: I suggest you go to next nokia center, and ask for a fresh cell to test
Jun 15 00:37:27 <SpeedEvil> After perhaps buying/borrowing a battery
Jun 15 00:37:36 <SpeedEvil> even a clone from ebay should let you test.
Jun 15 00:37:41 <tuliobaars_> ok thanks
Jun 15 00:38:01 <wiretapped> my n810's battery stopped working
Jun 15 00:38:29 <wiretapped> won't boot with it
Jun 15 00:38:40 <wiretapped> other batt works fine
Jun 15 00:38:57 <wiretapped> (ages ago)
Jun 15 00:38:59 <w00t_> any facebrick users, new version teasers of 0.5 up at: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=715452#post715452
Jun 15 00:39:08 <DocAvalanche> tuliobaars_: how could anybody help without you asking anything except "my device is on fire" (which isn't exactly a question as well)
Jun 15 00:39:28 <kakashi_> SpeedEvil, I though of doing that
Jun 15 00:39:36 <kakashi_> s/thought/thought
Jun 15 00:40:18 <tuliobaars_> sorry. Do you want that i ask exactly waht happened? Sorry
Jun 15 00:40:20 <kakashi_> btw, my battery was actually getting discharged in around 8 hours time usually with wifi on (no GPRS)
Jun 15 00:40:57 <tuliobaars_> OK, i've tried to install mer and now i wanna reflash  it with the fanoush's rootfs and kernel. Is it possible?
Jun 15 00:40:59 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: broken cells may cause weird behaviour on mobile devices. So really you should try to get a fresh original cell to test in a nokia store
Jun 15 00:41:30 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: 8h might be normal, depending on particular situation
Jun 15 00:42:02 <luke-jr> Nokia has stores?
Jun 15 00:42:23 <tuliobaars_> tthanks, but now i asked correctly
Jun 15 00:42:35 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: there's nothing wrong in asking to test if the device works with that new cell, before you actually spend money on it
Jun 15 00:42:59 <luke-jr> DocAvalanche: except they can't sell a used battery...
Jun 15 00:44:28 <kakashi_> DocAvalanche, okay, I will do that tomorrow, first thing in the morning
Jun 15 00:44:48 <DocAvalanche> luke-jr: if it's a decent nokia care center, they are supposed to have a matching battery ready for use, to test. If that can't be done, I'd expect the competent staff to suggest testing kakashi_'s cell in another N900
Jun 15 00:45:08 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: do you know how much battery is required for the n900 to go into flash mode?
Jun 15 00:45:27 <DocAvalanche> somewhere I read something about >40%
Jun 15 00:45:47 <DocAvalanche> not sure if that's a hard limit. It depends on several parameters
Jun 15 00:46:03 <kakashi_> well, actually my hunch is that my battery is less the ideal battery limit as of now
Jun 15 00:47:45 <kakashi_> btwm which phones use BL-5J?
Jun 15 00:47:47 <DocAvalanche> there's a few certain vltage thresholds that must be met. If for any reason battery voltage will drop below that then boot will fail, or flashing mode will fail. The cell voltage depends on several factors like cell age, temperature, charge...
Jun 15 00:48:03 <kakashi_> other than n900
Jun 15 00:48:13 <DocAvalanche> good question
Jun 15 00:48:14 <vldcnst> kakashi_: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility
Jun 15 00:48:53 <kakashi_> but what I don't understand is why isn't N900 getting charged even when I connect it to the wall charger
Jun 15 00:49:18 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: Because it boots up relatively early when a voltage threshold is passed
Jun 15 00:49:35 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: It then - should - basically go back to sleep if the battery is too discharged
Jun 15 00:50:25 <kakashi_> SpeedEvil, aha! and other BL-5J compatible phones don't have this issue?
Jun 15 00:50:29 <asj> kakashi_: leave it plugged in for a while, if the battery is too dischared it can't boot.  I'm pretty sure the n900 will try and trickle charge it for a while
Jun 15 00:50:39 <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: yes, they may do
Jun 15 00:50:45 <DocAvalanche> SpeedEvil: draining bat to level of no-boot and using hw-based autonomous charge *could* help
Jun 15 00:50:52 <SpeedEvil> plugging it in for several hours culd help
Jun 15 00:50:53 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 15 00:50:57 <DocAvalanche> SpeedEvil: but I won't suggest that
Jun 15 00:51:56 <DocAvalanche> asj: please stop suggesting contraproductive stuff without knowing the whole story
Jun 15 00:52:18 <asj> DocAvalanche: well fuck you too :)
Jun 15 00:52:32 <DocAvalanche> asj: kakashi_ told he's bootlooping which most certainly will *drain* the battery while hooked to charger
Jun 15 00:52:47 <DocAvalanche> asj: :-(
Jun 15 00:53:02 <kakashi_> uh! please don't fight for this issue!
Jun 15 00:53:13 <asj> DocAvalanche: ah, suckage
Jun 15 00:53:15 <DocAvalanche> asj: you got luck I'm in a lazy mood now
Jun 15 00:53:45 <vldcnst> kakashi_: you could also connect around 4v (watch the mA tho) directly to the battery itself and charge it like that for around 30 minutes. Usually this might damage your battery, but one time *might* not do any harm to it.
Jun 15 00:54:20 <DocAvalanche> vldcnst: he mentioned he doesn't even have Voltmeter to test for correct 4V
Jun 15 00:54:24 <vldcnst> kakashi_: I speak from experience, I charged batteries directly many times and didn't have any problems, but still... you never know what might happen.
Jun 15 00:54:34 <DocAvalanche> so thanks for the helpful suggestion
Jun 15 00:54:35 <kakashi_> vldcnst, that is a huge risk! I don't think my conscious brain will never let that happen
Jun 15 00:54:36 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: 3 batteries should do the trick.
Jun 15 00:54:51 <kakashi_> s/never/ever
Jun 15 00:56:02 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: please do the nokia care center thing, or find another way to *sanely* charge your battery, like decent standalone charger, or a friend's compatible phone
Jun 15 00:57:17 <kakashi_> btw, it is 0254 Hrs here, and I don't have an extra BL-5J compatible phone now, and I don't think it is fair to wake someone up for that, should I try discharge the battery (may be repeated power on button -- it gives a White Nokia thingy and goes down actually) or should I simple put it on charge ?
Jun 15 00:57:35 <SpeedEvil> There is also http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Universal-Travel-Mobile-Phone-Battery-Charger-Adapter-/260389384656?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneChargers&hash=item3ca06ab1d0 - for example
Jun 15 00:57:54 <SpeedEvil> The above shouldn't kill the battery in one charge
Jun 15 00:57:58 <SpeedEvil> also.
Jun 15 00:58:11 <SpeedEvil> If you're getting white nokia, that should flash
Jun 15 00:58:16 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: take out battery, and postpone to a more reasonable time of day
Jun 15 00:58:40 <SpeedEvil> Actually - no - there is a voltage threshold too - ignore that
Jun 15 00:59:29 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: then tomorrow take your N900 and separate battery to next Nokia care center
Jun 15 01:00:02 <kakashi_> yeah! that sounds to be the safest option!
Jun 15 01:00:14 <DocAvalanche> kakashi_: all you could do right now is potetially causing damage to either battery or even N900
Jun 15 01:00:47 <DocAvalanche> or your health, for some of more weird suggestions above :-P
Jun 15 01:01:08 <kakashi_> yeah!
Jun 15 01:01:11 <kakashi_> okay, thanks a lot DocAvalanche, SpeedEvil, asj, vldcnst and luke-jr for the help
Jun 15 01:01:29 <luke-jr> ...
Jun 15 01:01:36 <vldcnst> Not fair. it was a valid suggestion, if he was willing to trade risk for time.
Jun 15 01:02:20 <kakashi_> I will document about this in Maemo Forum and ofcourse bug everybody here about it tomorrow (technically today for me)
Jun 15 01:05:26 <asj> kakashi_: good luck
Jun 15 01:26:51 <DocAvalanche> vldcnst: it was a valid sugestion, but: >> <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: Do you own a voltmeter?   <kakashi_> nope :(  <vldcnst> kakashi_: you could also connect around 4v (watch the mA tho)
Jun 15 01:27:20 <DocAvalanche> how's he supposed to "watch the mA" ?
Jun 15 01:27:33 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: and I supplemented the suggestion with: <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: 3 batteries should do the trick.
Jun 15 01:28:28 <asj> don't have to own a voltmeter, just a current limiting bench power supply...but most people that have a bench power supple own a voltmeter
Jun 15 01:28:30 <DocAvalanche> still no way to watch the mA. That setup would even scare me, as I know a battery (or 3 in series) could delive >>5A
Jun 15 01:30:38 <DocAvalanche> vldcnst: a somewhat valid suggestion would have been: "take your old style 4.7V@650mA Nokia charger with that barrel connector (+=inner, -=outer contact) and simply connect that to the +/- of your cell, for <30min
Jun 15 01:30:43 <vldcnst> DocScrutinizer: 5A from one normal alkaline battery?
Jun 15 01:31:07 <DocAvalanche> take a A-cell and short it with a thick wire
Jun 15 01:31:18 <DocAvalanche> you'll be astonished what happens
Jun 15 01:31:22 <vldcnst> A cells are indeed powerful.
Jun 15 01:31:25 <asj> vldcnst: for a modern cell that's only 2C, yeah I can buy it
Jun 15 01:31:54 <asj> until it starts to heat up...
Jun 15 01:32:02 <vldcnst> and leak!
Jun 15 01:33:07 <asj> NiMH cells are routinely run harder than that in RC cars they only have what a 10-15 min run time at full power?
Jun 15 01:33:37 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: I agree with how you formulated that, but still, I doubt he would even try to touch the battery connectors. Not that kind of guy, from what I smelled.
Jun 15 01:35:26 * GAN900 wonders about mwkn stats
Jun 15 01:37:47 <DocScrutinizer> vldcnst: that's why I suggested he doesn't bother to do anything like that and rather visits the Nokia care center tomorrow
Jun 15 01:38:32 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: still, I've seen some horrible nokia abuse in my life, from original battery + wires (at the same time, in parallel) from 3xC to powering a phone from a old TV 5V transformer, and none had any issues, except lower battery life. They are pretty though.
Jun 15 01:39:04 <vldcnst> granted, that was with older gen phones
Jun 15 01:39:25 <SpeedEvil> If lipe turns up, asking about wpa_supplicant - point them at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56164&highlight=wpa_supplicant
Jun 15 01:39:25 <asj> 3 C cells would have a very long life I would expect..i thought they were 5000ma or something in there...
Jun 15 01:43:18 <vldcnst> It was also fun making charger plugs (big and small ones) from aluminium kitchen foil and plastic from cotton buds :)
Jun 15 01:44:46 <DocScrutinizer> vldcnst: agree, I've accidentally connectedsome 12V 2A stabilized power supply to my first version 6210. Comment of Nokia phone: 'Wrong Charger!"
Jun 15 01:45:22 <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: good old days :)
Jun 15 01:45:40 <DocScrutinizer> wouldn't try this on a N900 though
Jun 15 01:49:41 <vldcnst> SpeedEvil: epso PCB printer, interesting.
Jun 15 01:50:09 <vldcnst> (if thats your tutorial)
Jun 15 01:51:48 <SpeedEvil> umm - no
Jun 15 01:51:49 <SpeedEvil> oh
Jun 15 01:51:56 <SpeedEvil> right - no - that's unrelated to me
Jun 15 01:55:04 <GAN900> Man, that Missteps thread turned into more of a Thanks! whoring thread than I thought it would.
Jun 15 02:31:56 <wiretapped> can anyone here tell me what makes a post in mauku be a different color than the rest?
Jun 15 02:33:23 <wiretapped> it happens to be a post linking to a friend's blog entry... but it definitely isn't in my n900 history...
Jun 15 02:33:34 <wiretapped> very strange
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 15 02:59:57 2010