**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 16 02:59:56 2010
Jun 16 03:17:50 <D|g|ta|> anyone around know if there is a way to search within the application manager for a particular app? Since the update to the latest version of maemo that feature is no longer there.
Jun 16 03:18:57 <shorter> that's odd
Jun 16 03:19:06 <D|g|ta|> yea
Jun 16 03:19:11 <shorter> have you  tried selecting different repos or using apt-get from the cmd line?
Jun 16 03:19:12 <D|g|ta|> and annoying :)
Jun 16 03:19:30 <D|g|ta|> i have a number of repos selected
Jun 16 03:19:49 <DocScrutinizer2> D|g|ta|: type to search
Jun 16 03:20:10 <D|g|ta|> excuse me?
Jun 16 03:20:30 <DocScrutinizer2> just enter searchstring via hw kbd
Jun 16 03:20:49 <DocScrutinizer2> starts search, like on desktop with contacts
Jun 16 03:21:16 <DocScrutinizer2> awkward user interface
Jun 16 03:21:27 <D|g|ta|> sorry from where? i used to be able to select from the dropdown 'search'
Jun 16 03:21:47 <DocScrutinizer2> and seem you can'r select anymore between search in name and search in description
Jun 16 03:23:04 <D|g|ta|> so i have to use a different app to search the repository?
Jun 16 03:23:12 <DocScrutinizer2> NOOO
Jun 16 03:23:16 <D|g|ta|> :)
Jun 16 03:23:46 <DocScrutinizer2> opem HAM, click download, click all, start typing searchstring
Jun 16 03:25:08 <shorter> I think that's what he's been doing
Jun 16 03:25:35 <DocScrutinizer2> hildon application manager
Jun 16 03:25:54 <D|g|ta|> ok thats what ive been doing. the search string isnt there..
Jun 16 03:26:25 <D|g|ta|> the ability to search..
Jun 16 03:26:33 <DocScrutinizer2> sorry then, that's what I've been told many times is the way HAM in 1.2 works
Jun 16 03:26:57 <DocScrutinizer2> no 1.2 here, so can't help you
Jun 16 03:27:27 <D|g|ta|> :|
Jun 16 03:33:08 <shorter> Is skype the only VoIP client that can both call land lines AND work on the n900?
Jun 16 03:33:22 <DocScrutinizer2> no
Jun 16 03:33:30 <DocScrutinizer2> SIP works like a charm
Jun 16 03:33:51 <D|g|ta|> DocScrutinizer2 figured it out
Jun 16 03:34:00 <D|g|ta|> i JFGI
Jun 16 03:34:14 <D|g|ta|> you select all
Jun 16 03:34:16 <shorter> you have any advice on what to get for calling landlines DocScrutinizer?
Jun 16 03:34:29 <D|g|ta|> then just start typing what you are looking for and it will filter
Jun 16 03:34:40 <shorter> like, obviously it will cost money
Jun 16 03:34:43 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: get SIP account at any SIP provider
Jun 16 03:35:25 <shorter> will I be able to roam on any wifi in the world and people can call me from landlines?
Jun 16 03:35:26 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: www.sipgate.co.uk www.sipgate.de
Jun 16 03:35:33 <shorter> I'm in the US btw
Jun 16 03:35:46 <DocScrutinizer2> freeworldialup
Jun 16 03:36:08 <DocScrutinizer2> ~SIP
Jun 16 03:36:09 <infobot> hmm... sip is Session Initiation Protocol, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/ (see RFC 3261) It's HIP to be SIP!
Jun 16 03:36:57 <shorter> I'll take that as a yes
Jun 16 03:37:05 <D|g|ta|> Im pleased with how well skype works :)
Jun 16 03:37:06 <shorter> I just wanted to confirm my sketchy knowledge
Jun 16 03:37:23 <D|g|ta|> the SMS isnt enabled yet
Jun 16 03:37:31 <shorter> do you use it to call non-skypers (cell and landline #s)? D|g|ta|?
Jun 16 03:37:35 <D|g|ta|> yea
Jun 16 03:37:38 <shorter> ah
Jun 16 03:37:39 <D|g|ta|> works great
Jun 16 03:37:42 <shorter> how much is it costing?
Jun 16 03:37:44 <D|g|ta|> um
Jun 16 03:37:51 <D|g|ta|> 60 bucks for a year
Jun 16 03:37:54 <shorter> hmm
Jun 16 03:37:57 <D|g|ta|> er
Jun 16 03:38:07 <D|g|ta|> there is a subscription service
Jun 16 03:38:08 <shorter> so I can roam on any wifi network and it will work with my number, right?
Jun 16 03:38:15 <D|g|ta|> that lets you call from skype which is 2.99
Jun 16 03:38:17 <D|g|ta|> a month
Jun 16 03:38:22 <shorter> and I'm guessing it works on 3g too
Jun 16 03:38:29 <D|g|ta|> yea
Jun 16 03:38:34 <shorter> what about calls to?
Jun 16 03:38:41 <D|g|ta|> i connect to different wifi connections
Jun 16 03:38:49 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: http://www.siptosip.net/
Jun 16 03:39:06 <D|g|ta|> calls do require you to pay for the online number
Jun 16 03:39:13 <D|g|ta|> calls to you i mean
Jun 16 03:39:23 <shorter> what does that mean?
Jun 16 03:39:30 <shorter> what is 'the online number'?
Jun 16 03:39:31 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: ekiga.net
Jun 16 03:39:35 <D|g|ta|> mean that calling out doesnt require a phone number
Jun 16 03:39:49 <D|g|ta|> but calling to you you will need a online number
Jun 16 03:40:07 <shorter> yeah, do you have one?
Jun 16 03:40:13 <D|g|ta|> i didnt mean to derail the conversation
Jun 16 03:40:14 <D|g|ta|> yep
Jun 16 03:40:28 <D|g|ta|> thats 60 bucks for a year
Jun 16 03:40:46 <shorter> I wonder how skype compares to all of these other SIP providers
Jun 16 03:40:51 <DocScrutinizer2> oh well, then go waste your money for that skype BS
Jun 16 03:40:58 <DocScrutinizer2> it's not my money
Jun 16 03:40:58 <shorter> lol
Jun 16 03:41:06 <shorter> I didn't pay yet docS
Jun 16 03:41:26 <shorter> I'm doing some research, but I have to set it up soon because my prepaid voice is 15c/min
Jun 16 03:41:27 <D|g|ta|> yea, ill be quiet :)
Jun 16 03:42:12 <DocScrutinizer2> on sipgate or fwd you get "landline" geographical number for *free* so everybody can call you like you had a landline phone
Jun 16 03:42:27 <D|g|ta|> i wonder how difficult it would be to setup your own sip using amazons EC2..
Jun 16 03:42:32 <DocScrutinizer2> outbound minutes are usually much cheaper than on skype
Jun 16 03:43:08 <shorter> and it has the same roaming functionality?
Jun 16 03:43:18 <shorter> yeah, I didn't want do sell out to skype
Jun 16 03:43:24 <DocScrutinizer2> sure
Jun 16 03:43:31 <DocScrutinizer2> sip is the real thing
Jun 16 03:43:52 <DocScrutinizer2> while skype is a hacker solution based on peer2peer technology
Jun 16 03:43:53 <shorter> shnapz
Jun 16 03:44:24 <DocScrutinizer2> sip is FOSS, skype is as proprietary and closed as it could ever get
Jun 16 03:44:28 <shorter> I see SIP has good n900 integration, so yeah, looks like I'll need to do more provider research
Jun 16 03:44:40 <shorter> yes, I really don't appreciate that
Jun 16 03:45:05 <shorter> I got to the "enter your full name" on the skype site, and paused and went to do research for alternatives
Jun 16 03:45:10 <shorter> *ick*
Jun 16 03:45:44 <shorter> makes me feel like im in trouble or something
Jun 16 03:45:45 <shorter> haha
Jun 16 03:47:29 <shorter> I wonder if you can have multiple sip accounts on the same phone
Jun 16 03:47:52 <DocScrutinizer2> sure
Jun 16 03:48:03 <DocScrutinizer2> see twinklephone.com :-D
Jun 16 03:48:24 <shorter> lol, DocScrutinizer how many numbers is your n900 attached to?
Jun 16 03:48:36 <DocScrutinizer2> http://twinklephone.com
Jun 16 03:49:05 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: my N900 atm only to sipgate german geographical number
Jun 16 03:49:56 <DocScrutinizer2> I'm not even sure how well N900 supports multi account for SIP
Jun 16 03:50:02 <DocScrutinizer2> but it *should*
Jun 16 03:50:10 <DocScrutinizer2> I'd guess
Jun 16 03:50:42 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: so the answer is: two
Jun 16 03:50:50 <DocScrutinizer2> the GSM and the SIP number
Jun 16 03:51:37 <DocScrutinizer2> btw my N810 is another 'extension' of the same SIP number
Jun 16 03:51:50 <shorter> that's pretty sick
Jun 16 03:51:55 <DocScrutinizer2> and my laptop with twinkle is the 3rd extension
Jun 16 03:52:21 <shorter> "let me transfer you to our president" *runs over to laptop* "HELLO?"
Jun 16 03:52:37 <DocScrutinizer2> so if anybody calls my german landline number, there's 3 devices that start ringing
Jun 16 03:52:44 <D|g|ta|> heh
Jun 16 03:53:12 <DocScrutinizer2> you can't do that with skype afaik
Jun 16 03:53:28 <D|g|ta|> my choices for skype were for different reasons
Jun 16 03:54:23 <DocScrutinizer2> skype manages better: easy installation, video calls, NAT traversal
Jun 16 03:55:02 <swc|666> iax inside ssh socks from chroot ftw
Jun 16 03:55:05 <DocScrutinizer2> and maybe it is better on delivering good quality on really lossy networks
Jun 16 03:55:12 <D|g|ta|> Hey doc, dont suppose you know where to get replacement sytlus?
Jun 16 03:55:29 <D|g|ta|> for the n900
Jun 16 03:55:30 <DocScrutinizer2> sure I know
Jun 16 03:55:43 <D|g|ta|> official ones that actually fit
Jun 16 03:55:47 <D|g|ta|> where?
Jun 16 03:56:29 <DocScrutinizer2> http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4363_Original-Nokia-N900-Stylus-Pen.html
Jun 16 03:56:38 <D|g|ta|> cool
Jun 16 03:57:25 <DocScrutinizer2> I got one for free when N900 came back from Nokia repair ;-P
Jun 16 03:57:31 <D|g|ta|> :)
Jun 16 03:57:34 <D|g|ta|> hum
Jun 16 03:57:36 <D|g|ta|> .de
Jun 16 03:57:51 <D|g|ta|> in the the oily United states..
Jun 16 03:58:15 <DocScrutinizer2> sorry, but I haven't searched for outlets in easern Asia
Jun 16 03:58:27 <shorter> what does NAT traversal have to do with VoIP DocScrutinizer?
Jun 16 03:58:40 <DocScrutinizer2> neither in 3rd world countries like USA
Jun 16 03:58:46 <shorter> lol
Jun 16 03:59:11 <D|g|ta|> :)
Jun 16 04:00:11 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: when someone is calling you, a data packet has to be sent from outside (aka the world, internet) to your SIP user agent (aka phone, client). NAT may become an obstacle
Jun 16 04:00:56 <shorter> do you ever have VoIP problems due to NAT on the various wifi hotspots you visit?
Jun 16 04:01:11 <D|g|ta|> something like this doc? :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0VhS8qXT0
Jun 16 04:01:29 <DocScrutinizer2> there are good usually working solutions for that in SIP, like STUN, ICE, and host side NAT traversal
Jun 16 04:02:10 <shorter> yeah, I just want VoIP on the n900 that works on the most wifi hotspots and via 3g
Jun 16 04:02:20 <shorter> but I'm still looking around for the best SIP provider deals
Jun 16 04:02:48 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: that's actually a hard task, as there's soooo many of them
Jun 16 04:03:12 <shorter> yep, I thought I would find more comparison articles
Jun 16 04:06:32 <DocScrutinizer2> http://wiki.ip-phone-forum.de/anbieter:start
Jun 16 04:07:41 <shorter> great, I wonder if US ones are included
Jun 16 04:07:49 <shorter> do you use GPE contacts list at all?
Jun 16 04:07:53 <DocScrutinizer2> for usa sipphone.com is rather popular
Jun 16 04:07:57 <shorter> I like how it actually has group features
Jun 16 04:08:19 <DocScrutinizer2> shorter: scroll down the list ;-)
Jun 16 04:08:33 <shorter> how would you sync the GPE contacts app with the regular contacts app?
Jun 16 04:08:37 <DocScrutinizer2> a very few of USA are actually there
Jun 16 04:08:51 <shorter> yeah, I'm definitely looking over all of this SIP stuf you give me
Jun 16 04:10:17 <DocScrutinizer2> http://wiki.ip-phone-forum.de/anbieter:sipphone:start
Jun 16 04:11:46 <DocScrutinizer2> ouch, bought out by google :-S
Jun 16 04:13:50 <DocScrutinizer2> so seems google supports SIP for google voice
Jun 16 04:15:10 <DocScrutinizer2> as sipphone is SIP, and sipphone == gizmo, and gizmo been bought by google and became google voice, aiui
Jun 16 04:28:41 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer2: no, GrandCentral was bought and became Voice
Jun 16 04:28:53 <luke-jr> Gizmo was bought later, and pretty much sat on AFAIK
Jun 16 04:31:36 <DigitalPioneer> shorter: http://www.voicestick.com/  looks quite 'standard'
Jun 16 04:35:10 <shorter> since you live in germany, DocScrutinizer2, can you recommend the best data plan/provider for roaming through sweden, germany, greece, UK, and France?
Jun 16 04:37:36 <shorter> just looking for cheapest/GB (but full geographical coverage)
Jun 16 04:37:54 <adeus> I'm guessing there's no such thing
Jun 16 04:38:02 <DigitalPioneer> ouch, that's really hard. Data roaming always costs more than gold, though the EU regulations authority is trying to get tariffs down. They did for voice roaming, but not yet for data roaming. Some poor dudes came back from holiday with a $$$$$ bill waiting for them
Jun 16 04:38:38 <adeus> I buy prepaids
Jun 16 04:38:56 <DigitalPioneer> that's the recommended way to cope with this, yes
Jun 16 04:39:15 <DigitalPioneer> buy PAYG for the country you're at
Jun 16 04:41:13 <shorter> oh, so no prepaids that work for more than one country?
Jun 16 04:41:25 <DigitalPioneer> not for data
Jun 16 04:41:44 <shorter> so I should just take out the sim before i land so I dont roam, and then go to the nearest place and get a sim
Jun 16 04:41:47 <DigitalPioneer> at any reasonable rate
Jun 16 04:42:07 <DigitalPioneer> probably yes
Jun 16 04:43:19 <shorter> anyone here use vodafone? I heard they could do it for cheap/est..
Jun 16 04:43:20 <DigitalPioneer> the big stores will ask for your ID or passport, the smaller usually turkish ones, and supermarkets, don't care
Jun 16 04:45:42 <hypatia> shorter: tesco in the UK, blau.de in .de, tmobile in .nl is who i used last time
Jun 16 04:45:46 <hypatia> not sure the others :)
Jun 16 04:47:07 <DigitalPioneer> hypatia: has blau a data option?
Jun 16 04:48:07 <hypatia> DigitalPioneer: 9eur/1gb
Jun 16 04:48:10 <hypatia> great deal
Jun 16 04:48:15 <DigitalPioneer> that's ok
Jun 16 04:48:41 <DigitalPioneer> shorter: blau.de you get in every 2nd supermaket
Jun 16 04:48:52 <DigitalPioneer> in Germany
Jun 16 04:49:39 <DigitalPioneer> 20EUR iirc
Jun 16 04:49:58 <DigitalPioneer> probably incl minutes worth 20EUR
Jun 16 05:04:01 <shorter> Thinking about switching my main number from cell -> voip
Jun 16 05:05:28 <hypatia> shorter: make sure your voip service supports sms :)
Jun 16 05:05:33 * hypatia <3's google voice
Jun 16 05:06:54 <shorter> you use it with SIP?
Jun 16 05:07:32 <shorter> hypatia, I'd be very interested to hear how you use GV
Jun 16 05:08:04 <shorter> I've heard various SIP providers can allow GV to make calls to landlines, etc - do you use it like this?
Jun 16 05:13:32 <hypatia> shorter: i do, using gizmo5.  it's also doable with any sip provider that gives you a US number
Jun 16 05:13:42 <hypatia> i use gizmo to forward to my canadian cell #
Jun 16 05:13:50 <hypatia> and a callback app on (shh) android
Jun 16 05:13:52 <hypatia> :)
Jun 16 05:14:00 * hypatia just got an n900 today ^_^
Jun 16 05:15:21 <shorter> yeah, I got mine like 4 days ago
Jun 16 05:28:37 <pigeon> hypatia, shorter: congratulations
Jun 16 05:34:31 <shorter> got any GV invites?
Jun 16 05:35:12 <shorter> maybe requesting one on the site is just as quick as from user > user
Jun 16 05:44:52 <plastun> hi! how to link Entry and TouchSelector widgets to use entry as text searcher in selector?
Jun 16 05:49:36 <hypatia> shorter: i don't, sadly, but you can get one in 24 hours if you have a .edu address
Jun 16 05:51:34 <shorter> oh, well time to re-submit my request then - didn't know the edu rule
Jun 16 05:54:46 <shorter> man I wish there was a way to group contacts
Jun 16 05:55:19 <shorter> and when I export them in the contact program, and try to import them in GRE Contacts program, each contact is an individual file that has to be selected separately
Jun 16 06:08:38 <mece> ~seen X-Fade
Jun 16 06:08:40 <infobot> x-fade is currently on #maemo (14h 48m 5s) #meego (14h 48m 5s), last said: 'vldcnst: You can always try :)'.
Jun 16 06:16:14 <plastun> how to reorder entry and selector widgets in TouchSelectorEntry widget?
Jun 16 06:16:27 <shorter> sorry, never used that app before
Jun 16 06:17:00 <mece> plastun, remove and insert
Jun 16 06:18:25 <plastun> mece, thanks
Jun 16 06:23:23 <mece> X-Fade, when you got the time, I've got qlister 0.2-6 stuck in the autobuilder
Jun 16 06:24:15 <plastun> mece, I have got entry widget from TouchSelectorEntry, but pack_start or pack_end doesn't work
Jun 16 06:24:44 <mece> plastun, what language?
Jun 16 06:24:50 <plastun> Python
Jun 16 06:24:54 <mece> pygtk
Jun 16 06:25:01 <plastun> yep
Jun 16 06:25:06 <mece> ok hold on.
Jun 16 06:25:37 <mece> plastun, are you using a model?
Jun 16 06:25:45 <plastun> yes
Jun 16 06:26:37 <plastun> mece, this is example: http://pastebin.org/335872
Jun 16 06:27:17 <mece> plastun, and you want to rearrange the items, right?
Jun 16 06:27:48 <plastun> I want to get Entry widget after selector widget, in bottom of window
Jun 16 06:30:30 <mece> plastun, wait a sec, let me fire up the sdk here.
Jun 16 06:30:49 <plastun> mece, no problem. waiting...
Jun 16 06:32:15 <mece> you want the search box at the bottom?
Jun 16 06:34:39 <plastun> mece, yes
Jun 16 06:39:00 <mece> plastun, hmm. perhaps you can add the selector entry and column in a vbox separately
Jun 16 06:39:08 <mece> lemme try..
Jun 16 06:41:02 <Venemo> good morning guys
Jun 16 06:42:04 <plastun> morning
Jun 16 06:50:47 <mece> plastun, I really don't see any direct way to move that thing.Placement within the widget looks static
Jun 16 06:51:21 <plastun> me too
Jun 16 06:51:45 <plastun> so, my task was implement search in TouchSelector
Jun 16 06:52:12 <plastun> now I am trying to do this using TouchSelector and Entry widget separately
Jun 16 06:53:43 <Venemo> plastun: what is it that you would like to create?
Jun 16 06:54:24 <plastun> for example, the list of names and ability to search name by typing it in Entry
Jun 16 06:54:42 <plastun> but using TouchSelectorEntry I have another problem:
Jun 16 06:55:13 <plastun> to get current text, I should to connect 'changed' event on TouchSelector, when typing text, this event emmits
Jun 16 06:56:40 <plastun> yes, I can block handler when focus-in event emitts for Entry, but how to know, when to unblock handler?
Jun 16 06:58:26 <mece> plastun I think you should use value-changed instead
Jun 16 06:58:45 <Venemo> well, you can already search for names if you start typing when you're at the desktop
Jun 16 07:00:37 <plastun> Venemo, can I use screen keyboard to search like using hardware keyboard?
Jun 16 07:02:37 <SpeedEvil> don't think so
Jun 16 07:02:37 <plastun> mece, this signal unsupported for TouchSelector widget
Jun 16 07:04:26 <Herwood> hi, has anyone tried running the widgets gallery app of harmattan ui fw in x86?
Jun 16 07:04:57 <plastun> and general question, when i press Sym+@ shortcut, it say that layout swithced to another language, but when pressing the keys, old langiage used
Jun 16 07:04:59 <plastun> why&
Jun 16 07:05:00 <plastun> ?
Jun 16 07:07:22 <mece> plastun, yeah, noticed.
Jun 16 07:08:31 <Venemo> plastun: isn't it ctrl+space?
Jun 16 07:12:11 <mece> plastun, apparently you're supposed to use a picker button for selecting from a TouchSelectorEntry
Jun 16 07:35:27 <mece> what should one do when an app getst stuck in the autobuilder?
Jun 16 07:40:36 <DocScrutinizer> plastun: there's only one kbd layout selection. the switching via sym-space only seems to affect the distionary used, plus maybe the encoding defined for mails etc
Jun 16 07:41:13 <DocScrutinizer> iirc russion version actually has a keybd layout switching option
Jun 16 07:42:39 <plastun> DocScrutinizer, if I set Russian layout ib Settings, than switching to Enf and back works fine
Jun 16 07:42:59 <plastun> if End set by default, switching to Russian doesn't work
Jun 16 07:43:38 <DocScrutinizer> yeah that's thoroughly screwed up
Jun 16 07:52:06 <mece> anyone here got flattr?
Jun 16 07:53:12 <shorter> how can you get the date and day next to the clock in maemo?
Jun 16 07:53:18 <shorter> the main desktop one, that is
Jun 16 07:53:41 <mece> shorter, there's a desktop clock?
Jun 16 07:54:00 <shorter> I mean the one on the top left
Jun 16 07:54:40 <mece> shorter, I don't think so. uh I just thought of an idea. could show date instead of operator name!
Jun 16 07:55:04 <shorter> not sure what you mean
Jun 16 07:55:20 <shorter> also, why does the app manager have to reload each time an app is installed?
Jun 16 07:55:39 <shorter> can that be disabled; can the app manager be made faster?
Jun 16 07:55:51 <mece> shorter, no idea about that.
Jun 16 07:56:01 <mece> shorter disable testing and devel and it's a lot faster :)
Jun 16 07:56:21 <shorter> ah, but then it takes longer because almost everytime i go into app manager i want something from devel or testing
Jun 16 07:56:35 <mece> shorter, anyway, the date thing. No there's not an option to display date there, and I want one.
Jun 16 07:56:45 <shorter> indeed
Jun 16 07:56:45 <shorter> same
Jun 16 07:56:59 <shorter> no reason it has to be way harder than my old ass phone
Jun 16 07:57:12 <mece> shorter, so I figured I could make an app that replaces the opreator name (that is to the right of the battery/connection icons) with the date.
Jun 16 07:57:18 <shorter> have you used touchsearch at all?
Jun 16 07:57:23 <shorter> it seems useless, but I'm not sure
Jun 16 07:57:47 <mece> shorter, haven't used. Well it's a very simple app for searching the interwebs.
Jun 16 07:57:48 <shorter> is it that much harder to just slip some date/day functionality next to the main clock?
Jun 16 07:58:13 <mece> shorter, no idea really. But I know which operator I use, so I have no need for that text.
Jun 16 07:58:33 <shorter> yeah, I'd do that for now too I guess
Jun 16 08:01:28 <shorter> what do you do about grouping/categorizing your contacts mece?
Jun 16 08:01:40 <mece> shorter, I do nothing.
Jun 16 08:01:48 * MohammadAG51 just found his facebook password in gconf, not impressed
Jun 16 08:01:53 <mece> afk
Jun 16 08:02:02 <shorter> wtf? how MohammadAG51?
Jun 16 08:02:13 <jacekowski> facebrick?
Jun 16 08:03:14 <shorter> i guess it is truecrypt time then, eh?
Jun 16 08:03:34 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG51: so?
Jun 16 08:03:45 <timeless_mbp> your password is known by your device one way or the other
Jun 16 08:04:00 <timeless_mbp> any program running on your n900 will have access to your password
Jun 16 08:04:04 <timeless_mbp> no matter what
Jun 16 08:04:20 <timeless_mbp> you really don't want facebook running as root just to protect your password
Jun 16 08:04:39 <timeless_mbp> don't give away your n900 to strangers, and try not to let it get stolen
Jun 16 08:04:54 <jacekowski> but then you could expect some daemon running as root
Jun 16 08:05:09 <jacekowski> password daemon
Jun 16 08:05:20 <DocScrutinizer> kwallet
Jun 16 08:05:42 <mece> DocScrutinizer, what does kwallet do?
Jun 16 08:05:43 <jacekowski> yeah, something like that
Jun 16 08:05:48 <timeless_mbp> why?
Jun 16 08:05:50 <jacekowski> mece: encrypted password databse
Jun 16 08:05:51 <timeless_mbp> what's the point
Jun 16 08:06:00 <mece> jacekowski: I c
Jun 16 08:06:01 <timeless_mbp> we don't have enough stupid daemons wasting resources on our device?
Jun 16 08:06:06 <timeless_mbp> you want one more?
Jun 16 08:06:11 <timeless_mbp> how does that help?
Jun 16 08:06:20 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: safe and secure password storage
Jun 16 08:06:24 <shorter> timeless_mbp, how do you manage daemons on it btw?
Jun 16 08:06:26 <timeless_mbp> if i'm an evil application, i just knock off the good application and take your password
Jun 16 08:06:34 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: no
Jun 16 08:06:44 <timeless_mbp> shorter: i find a nice patch of sand and stick my head as far down into it as possible
Jun 16 08:06:48 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: because password daemon will notice that you are not a good app
Jun 16 08:06:51 <timeless_mbp> hoping to get a longer neck each time
Jun 16 08:06:58 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: how would it do this?
Jun 16 08:07:01 <shorter> that doesnt help
Jun 16 08:07:18 <jacekowski> check path
Jun 16 08:07:20 <mece> well one thing that would be nice is to have the stuff encrypted and a login required instead the autologin it now uses. I guess that would add a level of security.
Jun 16 08:07:25 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: useles
Jun 16 08:07:25 <jacekowski> for example
Jun 16 08:07:28 <jacekowski> nope
Jun 16 08:07:32 <timeless_mbp> if i knock it off, i've knocked it off
Jun 16 08:07:43 <timeless_mbp> most likely i'm going to poison its memory space
Jun 16 08:08:00 <timeless_mbp> besides, i can steal the password once it gets it from the daemon
Jun 16 08:08:03 <timeless_mbp> because we're all the same user
Jun 16 08:08:14 <timeless_mbp> and you don't want to let facebook lock 100mb of memory pages
Jun 16 08:08:31 <timeless_mbp> mece: it would add a level of impracticality
Jun 16 08:08:42 <timeless_mbp> and people will complain
Jun 16 08:08:49 <timeless_mbp> but perhaps that's coming :)
Jun 16 08:09:02 <timeless_mbp> it's not a useful requirement for your typical end user
Jun 16 08:09:02 <DocScrutinizer> actually there is no way to store secure pw on an insecure device. you either need master password, or you need TPM infra which nobody here really likes
Jun 16 08:09:13 <timeless_mbp> and if we implement it, you can be assured it will be buggy
Jun 16 08:09:25 <timeless_mbp> and we won't test it well enough
Jun 16 08:09:32 <timeless_mbp> so we'll just get hundreds of bug reports
Jun 16 08:09:37 <timeless_mbp> and not actually make anyone happy
Jun 16 08:09:44 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: that's for kernel to protect
Jun 16 08:09:50 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: that one app don't mess with other one
Jun 16 08:09:51 <Mece_> timeless_mbp, I didn't mean for eveyone, only those that care about such.
Jun 16 08:09:54 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: and it's quite simple
Jun 16 08:09:54 <timeless_mbp> although we'll be even more embarrassed
Jun 16 08:10:04 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: i work on security in mozilla
Jun 16 08:10:13 <timeless_mbp> and i've seen how security is or isn't done in maemo
Jun 16 08:10:20 <timeless_mbp> simple is um… an interesting myth
Jun 16 08:10:36 <MohammadAG51> <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG51: so? plain text
Jun 16 08:10:37 <jacekowski> all you need is to run processes separetly
Jun 16 08:10:39 <timeless_mbp> and DocScrutinizer's point is very important to keep in mind
Jun 16 08:10:50 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: bs
Jun 16 08:10:58 <jacekowski> and well, there isn't a lot of syscalls that can allow to mess with other process memeory
Jun 16 08:11:02 <timeless_mbp> and again, in fremantle, any app that wants to be is effectively root
Jun 16 08:11:19 <timeless_mbp> all i need is cat /proc/{pid}/mem or something
Jun 16 08:11:20 <MohammadAG51> /apps/maemo/facebook/password
Jun 16 08:11:29 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: that can be stopped
Jun 16 08:11:42 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: ptrace syscall can be blocked
Jun 16 08:11:42 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: so why bother trying to add smoke and mirrors
Jun 16 08:11:48 <timeless_mbp> oh
Jun 16 08:11:51 <shorter> tpm infra?
Jun 16 08:11:57 <jacekowski> no
Jun 16 08:11:57 <timeless_mbp> sure, let's make the device even less developer friendly
Jun 16 08:12:01 <MohammadAG51> hermes does the same for the twitter pass
Jun 16 08:12:03 <timeless_mbp> that's a winning proposition
Jun 16 08:12:11 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: ehh, developer kernel, and user kernel
Jun 16 08:12:17 <timeless_mbp> eh
Jun 16 08:12:20 <timeless_mbp> that leads to hell
Jun 16 08:12:25 <timeless_mbp> and it's also stupid
Jun 16 08:12:35 <timeless_mbp> because it means that a hacker just carries around a dev kernel
Jun 16 08:12:41 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: or even a thingy in /proc/sys to switch modes
Jun 16 08:12:44 <timeless_mbp> and the user has not gained any actual protection
Jun 16 08:13:00 <timeless_mbp> you've just wasted an hour now and days discovering you've added no protection
Jun 16 08:13:07 <timeless_mbp> and then when you realize we need TPM
Jun 16 08:13:12 <timeless_mbp> you run into DocScrutinizer's point
Jun 16 08:13:18 <timeless_mbp> which is that everyone *hates* TPM
Jun 16 08:13:20 <jacekowski> we don't need tpm
Jun 16 08:13:34 <jacekowski> we just need ability to completly separate applications
Jun 16 08:13:38 <timeless_mbp> w/o it, nothing prevents the bad guy from loading his own evil kernel
Jun 16 08:13:50 <timeless_mbp> and if i steal your device, believe me, that's what i'll do
Jun 16 08:13:54 <DocScrutinizer> bs! you need a crypting bootloader loading signed kernel which only runs signed apps
Jun 16 08:14:08 <DocScrutinizer> is that your user kernel?
Jun 16 08:14:23 <timeless_mbp> <panic evil kernel detected>
Jun 16 08:14:26 <jacekowski> we don't want to protect user against that
Jun 16 08:14:36 <jacekowski> but against evil app stealing password
Jun 16 08:14:39 <timeless_mbp> then what the heck are you protecting against?
Jun 16 08:14:44 <timeless_mbp> that's pointless
Jun 16 08:14:48 <jacekowski> or some flash/firefox/microb exploit
Jun 16 08:14:52 <jacekowski> pulling out all passwords
Jun 16 08:14:59 <timeless_mbp> the evil app can just ask app manager to install a root process
Jun 16 08:15:03 <nextime> in my opinion, if you steal your device the only one good protection is to have whole system with strong encryption
Jun 16 08:15:06 <timeless_mbp> and then do its work
Jun 16 08:15:26 <timeless_mbp> you're just wasting resources tricking people into thinking they have protection
Jun 16 08:15:28 <timeless_mbp> when they don't
Jun 16 08:15:34 <nextime> and no, tpm isn't a solution, i can't consider a solution something that for solve an issue introduce more issues
Jun 16 08:15:44 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: http://qubes-os.org/
Jun 16 08:15:48 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: that kind of stuff
Jun 16 08:15:54 <timeless_mbp> at a minimum, we'd need to introduce the windows 7 priv escalation stuff
Jun 16 08:16:03 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: maybe not as hardcore as using xen
Jun 16 08:16:10 <timeless_mbp> which is something that management wasn't interested in
Jun 16 08:16:26 <nextime> timeless_mbp : selinux with strong MAC configurations
Jun 16 08:16:28 <timeless_mbp> for diablo/fremantle, they actively broken security protections in the browser to make installation of apps *easier*
Jun 16 08:16:45 <timeless_mbp> nextime: which attackers interest you?
Jun 16 08:17:02 <timeless_mbp> what if an attacker decides to write a kernel to the external mmc
Jun 16 08:17:10 <timeless_mbp> and the n900 is configured to boot from there?
Jun 16 08:17:17 <nextime> timeless_mbp : the answer is to have whole system strong encryption
Jun 16 08:17:18 <jacekowski> but it isn't
Jun 16 08:17:19 <shorter> is anyone working on maemo security?
Jun 16 08:17:24 <DocScrutinizer> YAWN
Jun 16 08:17:29 <nextime> so, one can boot the kernel but can't read your fs
Jun 16 08:17:46 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: there is so many not user evil options
Jun 16 08:17:56 <shorter> nextime, you try truecrypt yet?
Jun 16 08:17:59 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: for example signed kernel
Jun 16 08:17:59 <timeless_mbp> nextime: you want an ugly non localized or non updatable sign on system before the real kernel boots?
Jun 16 08:18:13 <nextime> shorter : no, but i use on ALL my systems luks/dm-crypt on whole system
Jun 16 08:18:17 <timeless_mbp> are you asking for signed kernel?
Jun 16 08:18:17 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: that if you want to flash not signed kernel you can do it only over cable
Jun 16 08:18:28 <shorter> yeah, I'd like to try it on the n900 though
Jun 16 08:18:34 <shorter> I wonder how much it would hinder performance
Jun 16 08:18:45 <jacekowski> not at all
Jun 16 08:18:48 <timeless_mbp> i'm pretty sure people have done it
Jun 16 08:18:54 <jacekowski> it would take little bit longer to boot
Jun 16 08:19:01 <timeless_mbp> anyway, i think that tpm is coming
Jun 16 08:19:02 <shorter> to have the whole fs encrypted (minus /boot of course)?
Jun 16 08:19:07 <jacekowski> that
Jun 16 08:19:08 <timeless_mbp> so you guys can all have your wishes
Jun 16 08:19:15 <jacekowski> that would be a lot slower
Jun 16 08:19:17 <timeless_mbp> but i'm going to blame you guys for it!
Jun 16 08:19:27 <lbt> hmmm   stunning lack of interest in having a MeeGo autobuilder that builds Maemo
Jun 16 08:19:28 <timeless_mbp> it's all your fault. you asked for it!
Jun 16 08:19:38 <timeless_mbp> lbt: hey
Jun 16 08:19:45 <lbt> o/ timeless_mbp
Jun 16 08:19:49 <timeless_mbp> i want a mmc card that boots meego
Jun 16 08:19:54 <timeless_mbp> can you hook me up?
Jun 16 08:20:16 <lbt> I've never even seen MeeGo running....
Jun 16 08:20:17 <nextime> i want meego to die and maemo to go forward :)
Jun 16 08:20:21 <DocScrutinizer> anyway if tpm is coming, then the FOSS is dead
Jun 16 08:20:22 <lbt> nextime: tough
Jun 16 08:20:39 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: blame jacekowski and MohammadAG51 :)
Jun 16 08:20:40 <lbt> DocScrutinizer: if you let it happen, true
Jun 16 08:20:43 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: you don't need tpm to do that stuff
Jun 16 08:20:50 <MohammadAG51> o.O
Jun 16 08:21:03 <MohammadAG51> wtf did I say to start discussion about a damn TPM
Jun 16 08:21:09 <jacekowski> 99% of it can be done in software
Jun 16 08:21:10 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: bs
Jun 16 08:21:22 <MohammadAG51> i said my pass was stored as plain text, sheesh
Jun 16 08:21:23 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG51: you complained about passwords being readable
Jun 16 08:21:31 <shorter> what about default fs encryption and better physical locking features?
Jun 16 08:21:32 <jacekowski> as long as you have piece of trusted software stored in rom
Jun 16 08:21:38 <MohammadAG51> yes, I didn't discuss platform security
Jun 16 08:21:49 <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG51: the platform has no security
Jun 16 08:21:51 <lbt> tpm isn't bad. Guns aren't bad
Jun 16 08:21:51 <jacekowski> that's all you need
Jun 16 08:21:54 <timeless_mbp> you're asking for obscurity
Jun 16 08:21:57 <timeless_mbp> obscurity is pointless
Jun 16 08:22:03 <MohammadAG51> I'm asking?
Jun 16 08:22:08 <Appiah> chill..
Jun 16 08:22:22 <timeless_mbp> well, the only reason one would comment about it is to be asking for it
Jun 16 08:22:25 <nextime> the problem on tpm is that you don't have a trusted software in rom, but nokia have it.
Jun 16 08:22:38 <jacekowski> nextime: enough for our purposes
Jun 16 08:22:45 <timeless_mbp> nextime: what, you don't trust nokia?
Jun 16 08:22:45 <DocScrutinizer> dudes, please read about moto milestone and their crypted bootloader not loading the FOSS linux kernel you patched
Jun 16 08:22:47 <timeless_mbp> for shame!
Jun 16 08:22:54 <nextime> jacekowski : not acceptable for my personal policies :)
Jun 16 08:23:03 <timeless_mbp> surely nokia would never hide anything from you
Jun 16 08:23:08 <shorter> lol
Jun 16 08:23:09 <nextime> timeless_mbp : i don't trust even my mother
Jun 16 08:23:13 <shorter> ouch
Jun 16 08:23:17 <timeless_mbp> like the hidden radio transceiver in the n800
Jun 16 08:23:19 <jacekowski> if they hide anything they could hide it in hardware as well
Jun 16 08:23:23 <shorter> we don't either nextime
Jun 16 08:23:25 <shorter> j/k
Jun 16 08:23:38 <timeless_mbp> i mean, we hid an entire radio in the n800
Jun 16 08:23:40 <nextime> jacekowski: of course you right, but i need a border to my paranoia :)
Jun 16 08:23:48 <timeless_mbp> and you're worrying about us hiding a few bits of code in rom
Jun 16 08:24:03 <timeless_mbp> silly rabbit
Jun 16 08:24:12 <jacekowski> timeless_mbp: seriously?
Jun 16 08:24:14 <lbt> heh, you don't trust Nokia as your HW vendor.... but Chinese HW vendors.... they're fine ;)
Jun 16 08:24:29 <timeless_mbp> jacekowski: the n800 didn't list a radio as a feature
Jun 16 08:24:30 <nextime> timeless_mbp: my point is that aren't usefull cause we can solve those issues in a more trusted way ( fs encryption )
Jun 16 08:24:30 <shorter> I don't get it, are you saying it is that easy to hide hardware?
Jun 16 08:24:33 <timeless_mbp> but it was there
Jun 16 08:24:36 <shorter> surely they knew there was a radio...right?
Jun 16 08:24:44 <timeless_mbp> shorter: it wasn't listed on the box
Jun 16 08:24:50 <timeless_mbp> so, no, the customer didn't really know
Jun 16 08:24:52 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jun 16 08:25:00 <lauri> Hello, could anyone comment why this Python snippet on N900 lags HORRIBLY: http://pastebin.com/3Rz9yVG7
Jun 16 08:25:02 <timeless_mbp> it took a while for others to discover it
Jun 16 08:25:24 <shorter> well
Jun 16 08:25:33 <lbt> hi Jaffa
Jun 16 08:25:46 <timeless_mbp> shorter: anyway, see lbt's point
Jun 16 08:25:56 <timeless_mbp> really, if you don't trust your hardware vendor's software
Jun 16 08:25:56 <shorter> yeah I know
Jun 16 08:26:03 <timeless_mbp> why would you trust the hardware vendor's hardware
Jun 16 08:26:05 <shorter> but it seems n900 is closer to FOSS than anything now
Jun 16 08:26:11 <timeless_mbp> it is
Jun 16 08:26:12 * lbt disappointed about almost total lack of interest in OBS/Fremantle/Harmattan
Jun 16 08:26:24 <nextime> lauri : i don't know why it lags, but hey, don't use from foo.bar import *
Jun 16 08:26:24 <timeless_mbp> and not wasting time w/ security through obscurity is actually a good thing
Jun 16 08:26:28 <nextime> use from foo import bar
Jun 16 08:26:37 <shorter> for sure
Jun 16 08:26:49 <shorter> there must be other options besides TPM, though
Jun 16 08:26:57 <timeless_mbp> you really don't want us to write out some magical passphrase
Jun 16 08:27:02 <lbt> still, I guess it's easier to bitch and moan than to do anything concrete about making it better....
Jun 16 08:27:04 * lbt looks around pointedly
Jun 16 08:27:09 <timeless_mbp> you have no idea how poorly we've rot13d it
Jun 16 08:27:32 <lauri> nextime: I am using from foo import bar throughout the actual app
Jun 16 08:27:38 <timeless_mbp> lbt: i'm interested in it if someone will give me a meego mmc for my n900
Jun 16 08:27:50 <DocScrutinizer> lbt: I found that mail great!
Jun 16 08:27:55 <timeless_mbp> lauri: oprofile?
Jun 16 08:28:05 <lbt> DocScrutinizer:  thank you
Jun 16 08:28:21 <lbt> DocScrutinizer: the future of Maemo.org is inside it IMHO
Jun 16 08:28:36 <lbt> if we don't do that then maemo.org will languish
Jun 16 08:29:01 <lauri> timeless_mbp: on n900?
Jun 16 08:29:05 <lbt> Nokia *will* stop funding the autobuilder and other things
Jun 16 08:29:17 <DocScrutinizer> shorter: (other option) yes, use master password with a pw manager, and keep your system clean
Jun 16 08:29:21 <timeless_mbp> lauri: sure?
Jun 16 08:29:42 <lauri> timeless_mbp: This issue appears only on n900
Jun 16 08:29:50 <lauri> not on my laptop :S
Jun 16 08:29:54 <timeless_mbp> right, so use it there
Jun 16 08:30:04 <timeless_mbp> how do you think the browser team does perf work on the n900?
Jun 16 08:30:16 <timeless_mbp> http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/oprofile/
Jun 16 08:30:25 <timeless_mbp> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/oprofile
Jun 16 08:30:34 <timeless_mbp> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_Eclipse_Tutorial/Eclipse_Performance_Profiling#OProfile_and_IDE_Integration
Jun 16 08:30:47 <timeless_mbp> wow, you can even use eclipse w/ it :o
Jun 16 08:30:52 <timeless_mbp> stupid device is too developer friendly
Jun 16 08:30:58 <timeless_mbp> we should rip that stuff out
Jun 16 08:31:10 <timeless_mbp> and hide the documentation where no one can find it
Jun 16 08:31:18 <DocScrutinizer> lbt: for quite a number of devel ML readers there's missing a URL to easily follow and contribute to the discussion on meego ML
Jun 16 08:31:25 <lauri> I'll bookmark this
Jun 16 08:31:28 <lauri> :D
Jun 16 08:31:55 <lbt> DocScrutinizer: then please reply with it ;)
Jun 16 08:32:28 <lbt> and your opinion too ....it's a public call for opinions
Jun 16 08:32:40 <DocScrutinizer> I think it's up to one of the OPs otherwise thread started
Jun 16 08:33:25 <DocScrutinizer> on maemo devel ML
Jun 16 08:33:32 * lbt checks the rulebook....
Jun 16 08:33:34 <lbt> nope.
Jun 16 08:33:36 <lbt> it's fine.
Jun 16 08:33:39 <lbt> you can do it
Jun 16 08:39:37 <DocScrutinizer> lbt: "please discuss on meego ML" - it's absolutely reasonable request, but won't help if I start answering to the maemodevel ML mail
Jun 16 08:42:31 <lbt> there you go
Jun 16 08:42:36 <achipa> lbt: regarding OBS - FWIW you have Council support for that (Andrew signed it, but it DOES cover all people in there). From a community perspective, I'm not sure what more we can do (if you know, do tell :)
Jun 16 08:43:16 <lbt> achipa: well, we're asking for the MeeGo community to approve this
Jun 16 08:43:25 <lbt> are you part of the MeeGo community?
Jun 16 08:43:36 <DocScrutinizer> lbt: I suggest you answer to your own mail on maemodevel ML *only*, stating once more "please don't answer here. Rather you can follow the meego ML thread in  archives here ((URL)), and you subscribe to that ML there:((URL))"
Jun 16 08:43:44 <lbt> ie do you plan to run/develop for MeeGo?
Jun 16 08:44:05 <achipa> lbt: well, if nothing else, it will be a good test of how much Maemo ancestry/respect means in MeeGo land these days
Jun 16 08:44:18 <lbt> If so then your opinion matters... even "yes, as a maemo dev coming to meego this is really important"
Jun 16 08:44:29 <lbt> achipa: you don't get it :)
Jun 16 08:44:34 <lbt> *YOU* are MeeGo
Jun 16 08:44:55 * nextime doesn't want meego
Jun 16 08:44:57 <lbt> DocScrutinizer: done
Jun 16 08:45:05 <lbt> nextime: *YOU* don't matter ;)
Jun 16 08:45:12 <nextime> lbt : sadly, i know
Jun 16 08:45:15 <lbt> awww
Jun 16 08:45:33 * MohammadAG51 doesn't wants MeeGo too
Jun 16 08:45:37 <achipa> lbt: Uh. I'm in a sensitive position here. I *AM* going to increase involvement with MeeGo, but still not sure about the modality
Jun 16 08:45:38 <nextime> a see meego like a borg
Jun 16 08:45:41 <lbt> nextime: actually, as has been said before, MeeGo killed Mer because it is Mer
Jun 16 08:45:46 <nextime> "resistence is futile, you will be assimilated"
Jun 16 08:45:51 <nextime> but i hate it
Jun 16 08:46:04 <lbt> achipa: not sure I understand?
Jun 16 08:46:06 <nextime> lbt : false, meego isn't mer
Jun 16 08:46:11 <MohammadAG51> I hate RPM, not meego :P
Jun 16 08:46:19 <nextime> MohammadAG51 : me too.
Jun 16 08:46:22 <lbt> nextime: in many ways it is
Jun 16 08:46:31 <lbt> re rpms.... me too
Jun 16 08:46:42 <nextime> lbt : not in the way i like more on mer/maemo: the debian derived base
Jun 16 08:47:01 <lbt> you should see the source code for the MeeGo release management reporting tools... ;)
Jun 16 08:47:30 <lbt> nextime: that's fine... I run debian on my desktop and won't change that
Jun 16 08:47:46 <nextime> lbt : i use debian too on all my machine from when debian exists...
Jun 16 08:47:49 <lbt> MeeGo pushes upstream and so will help Debian too
Jun 16 08:47:58 <lbt> nextime: sure, fine.
Jun 16 08:48:00 <achipa> lbt: I'm pretty certain that my current position is not transferable. Will I code for fun and be on the lists ? Certainly.
Jun 16 08:48:07 <lbt> OK
Jun 16 08:48:16 <lbt> you matter then
Jun 16 08:48:18 <nextime> lbt : right, but it lose the debian like userland feeling
Jun 16 08:48:29 <lbt> nextime: yep
Jun 16 08:48:37 <nextime> that is what i love and what make me buy an n900
Jun 16 08:48:45 <lbt> nextime: although I'm working on bringing the Debian policies to MeeGo
Jun 16 08:49:01 <lbt> if you don't care enough about those policies... that's fine too
Jun 16 08:49:06 <nextime> lbt : work also to change the package management :)
Jun 16 08:49:24 <lbt> I don't see that as important
Jun 16 08:49:32 <lbt> I see improving it as important
Jun 16 08:49:39 <lbt> and making it as robust as Debian
Jun 16 08:49:45 <DocScrutinizer2> I really can't see what's wrong with RPM
Jun 16 08:49:53 <nextime> lbt : i see that as so important that i think in fuure i will sel-rebuild all packages from meego in .deb to use it on my device...
Jun 16 08:50:07 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, it's really slow on the N900 tbh
Jun 16 08:50:12 <achipa> DocScrutinizer2: It's not DEB
Jun 16 08:50:13 <DocScrutinizer2> yum is just fine for users
Jun 16 08:50:18 <MohammadAG51> yum is slow
Jun 16 08:50:27 <DocScrutinizer2> uhuh
Jun 16 08:50:34 <MohammadAG51> it tooks 5 minutes to install xchat on the N900
Jun 16 08:50:36 <nextime> docscrunizer: nothing is wrong with rpm. It is just my personal feeling with maemo, i've buyed my n900 PRIMARLY cause of apt
Jun 16 08:50:39 <DocScrutinizer2> and apt is lightning fast, heh?
Jun 16 08:50:42 <MohammadAG51> with a fedora chroot
Jun 16 08:50:46 <nextime> so, losing apt is a really BAD thing for me
Jun 16 08:50:48 <MohammadAG51> it's faster
Jun 16 08:50:50 <nextime> only this
Jun 16 08:50:51 <lbt> DocScrutinizer2: http://www.google.com/search?q=python+rpmutils+documentation  vs   http://www.google.com/search?q=python+apt+documentation
Jun 16 08:51:01 <lbt> that is what is wrong with RPM
Jun 16 08:51:21 <achipa> MohammadAG51: well... the app manager is not a speed champion, deb or rpm
Jun 16 08:51:41 <MohammadAG51> achipa, I was using apt-get and yum when I compared
Jun 16 08:51:46 <DocScrutinizer2> lbt: granted. this may be fixed though
Jun 16 08:51:52 <nextime> DocScrutinizer2: also, i have my own deb repositories, i don't want to have to put online ALSO a rpm repo
Jun 16 08:51:52 <MohammadAG51> an app manager would just make it slower
Jun 16 08:51:58 <lbt> rpm is underdocumented, poorly policied and badly adhered to
Jun 16 08:52:14 <lbt> DocScrutinizer2: and so it can... which is why I don't care that we use it
Jun 16 08:52:16 <achipa> MohammadAG51: still, those are not the primary ways of installing stuff
Jun 16 08:52:22 <lbt> and why I'm working on policy transfer
Jun 16 08:52:24 <DocScrutinizer2> nextime: that's a really poor argument
Jun 16 08:52:29 <achipa> MohammadAG51: plus, there should be some difference between yum and zypper
Jun 16 08:52:39 <achipa> but... we're getting #meego now :)
Jun 16 08:52:47 <nextime> DocScrutinizer2: generally speaking yes, but for ME it isn't poor argument
Jun 16 08:53:40 <achipa> lbt: that goes for Python in general. Having to write an open letter of support to have Python officially in Harmattan and MeeGo gives me shivers
Jun 16 08:54:01 <lbt> it could be python
Jun 16 08:54:16 <Mece_> x-fade, ping
Jun 16 08:54:21 <MohammadAG51> achipa, well, couldn't find zypper on fedora so... :)
Jun 16 08:54:30 <lbt> but all the rpm tools are written in python so that's no excuse
Jun 16 08:54:34 * lbt goes to do some real work :)    l8r..... and please engage on the meego-community ml :)
Jun 16 08:54:51 <DocScrutinizer2> lbt: o/
Jun 16 08:56:41 <achipa> lbt: ok, will do a 'lbt for president !' post
Jun 16 08:56:47 <nextime> lbt : as a pythonist myself, the python base of the rpm tools is the only positive point i ca see :) anyway, i also have to to some more productive work. Bye all.
Jun 16 08:57:09 <lbt> nextime: the lack of docs is my complaint
Jun 16 09:00:17 <lcuk> achipa, there are worse places david could be stuck in :p
Jun 16 09:01:30 <achipa> lcuk: like the Community Council ? :P
Jun 16 09:04:55 <lcuk> lol :p
Jun 16 09:05:48 <Mece_> so what should I do with my stuck package? would a bugreport help?
Jun 16 09:06:46 <lcuk> Mece_, its stuck?
Jun 16 09:07:20 <Mece_> lcuk, well i never got "package imported"
Jun 16 09:08:22 <lcuk> Mece_, yesterday there were some issues on maemo.org - perhaps related and not all services back online
Jun 16 09:08:45 <lcuk> Mece_, wheres the packages page you are looking at
Jun 16 09:09:25 <Mece_> lcuk, well actually, it is n the repos, but the instance is not properly updated on the site.
Jun 16 09:09:31 <sivang> achipa: but if rpm is used in meego, and is heavily based on Python, wouldn't it go without saying that Python needs official support on the platform?
Jun 16 09:09:35 <lcuk> Mece_, url
Jun 16 09:09:40 <sivang> achipa: or maybe I'm missing something.
Jun 16 09:09:42 <Mece_> lcuk, http://maemo.org/packages/view/qlister/
Jun 16 09:09:49 <Mece_> 0.2-6
Jun 16 09:10:05 <achipa> sivang: talking about application level (community and Ovi)
Jun 16 09:11:07 <lcuk> ok Mece_ so it was last night, you say its in the repo?  its just the packages ui isnt showing it?
Jun 16 09:11:17 <sivang> achipa: why is application level python not supported? If it is there for the rpm toolchain, then it is there for the rest of the userland no?
Jun 16 09:11:19 <achipa> sivang: on Fremantle the issue is also not that it doesn't exist, but that it's not official (which has sideeffects like that ovi won't accept you)
Jun 16 09:11:38 <achipa> sivang: hey, I'm no Ovi guy, ask them
Jun 16 09:11:41 <Mece_> lcuk, yep. I got update notification in ham.
Jun 16 09:11:41 <sivang> achipa: yes, I know about Ovi.
Jun 16 09:12:18 <sivang> achipa: I think OVI will change for MeeGo if it is going to be used as an app source, e.g. accept python as well
Jun 16 09:12:23 <achipa> sivang: also, note that just having python itself is not the question here. If all the python-* packages don't have a proper treatment, then it's not worth much
Jun 16 09:12:39 <sivang> achipa: true, so we need official maintainership
Jun 16 09:13:08 <achipa> sivang: I think Ovi has no contact with either community or commercial developers (talking mainly about python here)
Jun 16 09:13:09 <lcuk> Mece_, its likely related to yesterday and doesnt sound too heavy (obviously not ideal)  when X-Fade appears later if hes on just see if it was expected after the outages
Jun 16 09:13:39 <sivang> ah, so I see maemo's bugzilla does allow for community application to use its services? https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?product=qlister
Jun 16 09:13:40 <achipa> sivang: so I'm afraid it will be 'why didn't you say so' AFTER MeeGo ships
Jun 16 09:13:43 <sivang> as an example
Jun 16 09:13:47 <achipa> hence the open letter
Jun 16 09:14:00 <sivang> achipa: the open letter was a good idea. I'm sure people will treat it seriously.
Jun 16 09:14:01 <Mece_> lcuk, ok. It's only a problem because I want to promote to testing.
Jun 16 09:14:17 <lcuk> sure
Jun 16 09:14:54 <Mece_> sivang, yep. just email andre if you want it there.
Jun 16 09:14:56 <lcuk> Mece_, checked bugs.maemo.org for similar things ?
Jun 16 09:15:07 <lcuk> to see how it was handled in the past perhaps
Jun 16 09:15:50 <Mece_> lcuk, haven't done that. I'll check later.
Jun 16 09:15:55 <achipa> X-Fade: I know you probably have more important things to do, but when in an agressive mood, nuke http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/soccerfrenzy/1.0.2/
Jun 16 09:16:11 <achipa> (same story as hoopsfrenzy)
Jun 16 09:16:30 <lcuk> achipa, wow i would never be able to track irc things like that :P
Jun 16 09:21:55 <sivang> Mece_: Why was it mentioned some time ago in one of the meego meetings that community applications are not given resources for issues and related?
Jun 16 09:24:30 <andre__> sivang, what do you need? :)
Jun 16 09:24:36 * andre__ too lazy to read the backlog
Jun 16 09:26:14 <sivang> andre__: Not much at this point :-) But some support once I upload a specific demo app to the repo, I was alos curious to know what are the current issues with the process that brought it to that meeting. I need to review the logs again.
Jun 16 09:26:56 <andre__> if you need a product in bugs.maemo.org see http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products . for everything else I have no idea :)
Jun 16 09:27:24 <sivang> achipa: There's nothing in the open letter to mention Python support..missing something again? :)
Jun 16 09:27:30 <sivang> achipa: (I mean, I am )
Jun 16 09:28:08 <achipa> sivang: it's not out yet, will be probably later today (syncing with other council members, etc)
Jun 16 09:29:00 <sivang> achipa: ah, youre open letter to support python? if you want to get more rationale (some stuff I learnt from the field dealing with development customers) let me know.
Jun 16 09:31:29 <achipa> sivang: thanks, though I think it might be better if rationales or support of our... support :) might be better on-line (just so that the announcement doesn't go by as a tumbleweed)
Jun 16 09:31:43 <achipa> (on-line = on lists, talk, etc)
Jun 16 09:32:32 <achipa> = I would like to avoid a 10 page document nobody will read, when the essence is fairly short and non-technical
Jun 16 09:33:03 <sivang> achipa: cool, so once sent to the ML, I will respond and add my 2c of field experience with developing customers there.
Jun 16 09:33:04 <achipa> (but of course provide all the additional info and rationale in whatever form possible)
Jun 16 09:34:49 <sivang> achipa: interest in prototyping , and production POCs (as in python being used to build an app to hit the market quick, and then converted to compiled language once critical mass is reached etc)
Jun 16 09:37:48 <sivang> andre__: sure thing, thanks! :)
Jun 16 09:44:36 <sivang> andre__: you know, what's even more interesting, is how Python is given as an example for a device to widen the developer community in the Qt for Symbian book , where there it explains it is readily available on the S60 and Linux based platforms from Nokia
Jun 16 09:45:48 <sivang> andre__: the book starts with emphasisng how important it is to widen the developer community and gives examples for the ways you can tackel this:QT C++, WRT, PyS60, PyMaemo and PySide.
Jun 16 09:45:58 <sivang> andre__: ahh op
Jun 16 09:46:02 <sivang> andre__: oops :)
Jun 16 09:46:05 <sivang> achipa: ^^^
Jun 16 09:46:05 <andre__> :)
Jun 16 09:49:51 <achipa> sivang: Yes, that is one of the reasons we're doing this - the 'developer' arm of Nokia is not only aware but invested (and invests) a lot of work in Python (see the projects you mention above) but it seems sometimes concrete feedback from outside Nokia can be helpful, to help intra-Nokia decision (i.e. Ovi people being out of touch :))
Jun 16 10:05:13 <dneary> Hi
Jun 16 10:05:23 <dneary> You know the PR 1.2 SMS issue?
Jun 16 10:05:24 <lcuk> morning dave
Jun 16 10:05:30 <dneary> I didn't have that
Jun 16 10:05:31 <lcuk> what issue.. ?
Jun 16 10:05:34 <Venemo> what SMS issue?
Jun 16 10:05:43 <dneary> MyNokia sign-up is compulsory
Jun 16 10:05:50 <dneary> sign-up sends SMS
Jun 16 10:05:53 <dneary> That one
Jun 16 10:06:07 <dneary> Venemo, http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription
Jun 16 10:06:55 <Venemo> dneary: that is not an "SMS issue"
Jun 16 10:07:12 <dneary> Venemo, Well, that's what I'm calling it :)
Jun 16 10:07:17 <Venemo> dneary: I thought you meant there was an issue with sending SMSs
Jun 16 10:07:26 <dneary> The MyNokia issue, if you prefer
Jun 16 10:07:32 <Venemo> yes, I prefer
Jun 16 10:07:35 <Venemo> thank you :P
Jun 16 10:07:43 <dneary> You just take out your SIM card before booting 1.2
Jun 16 10:07:48 <dneary> No registration
Jun 16 10:08:30 <Ikarus> it is an issue
Jun 16 10:08:51 <Ikarus> I still want Nokia to pay me back for that and to destroy any data on me
Jun 16 10:09:10 <barisione> does anybody know which process reads the /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf file?
Jun 16 10:10:00 <Saviq> barisione: sounds like pulseaudio, no?
Jun 16 10:10:14 <Saviq> can anyone please tell me if/where can I find automake-1.11 in the scratchbox?
Jun 16 10:10:35 <X-Fade> Saviq: Only 1.10 as max.
Jun 16 10:10:55 <barisione> it's actually a link to /usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/pulse/xpolicy.conf
Jun 16 10:11:13 <barisione> and it's maybe read by an ohm plugin
Jun 16 10:11:17 <barisione> but I'm not sure
Jun 16 10:12:18 <Saviq> barisione: it's definitely a pulse policy file
Jun 16 10:16:52 <chem|st> dneary: doesn't it register the minute you put in your sim?
Jun 16 10:17:17 <dneary> chem|st, not if you squash the cherry
Jun 16 10:17:40 <chem|st> and what was that gnome spam about btw
Jun 16 10:18:00 <barisione> Saviq_afk: but handled by what? pulseaudio directly? ohm? an ohm plugin?
Jun 16 10:19:51 <DocScrutinizer> barisione: tried lsof?
Jun 16 10:19:57 <barisione> yes
Jun 16 10:20:02 <barisione> it's not open atm
Jun 16 10:20:09 <barisione> probably it's read at boot and closed
Jun 16 10:20:11 <barisione> so no info
Jun 16 10:21:49 <DocScrutinizer> probably it's read whenever new policy is enforced
Jun 16 10:22:48 <sivang> achipa: we need to invite OVI people for some barbeque day at the Virgin Isalnds and show them how importnt python is :)
Jun 16 10:23:10 <DocScrutinizer> so switching from hanset to speakerphone and back should give you an opportunity to trace. Also maybe temporarily rename the file and see who's blowing chunks?
Jun 16 10:23:12 <sivang> achipa: It is quite amazing to see how much effort and invetment Nokia puts into Python and still that open letter needs to be sent :)
Jun 16 10:23:31 <achipa> sivang: indeed
Jun 16 10:24:02 <sivang> achipa: I guess what we need here is more patience, Nokia is a great and large company and so things are addressed slowly but surely
Jun 16 10:24:26 <sivang> achipa: I don't think there's such a python offering for development on other platforsm, is therE?
Jun 16 10:24:49 <DocScrutinizer> but surely? muhaha
Jun 16 10:25:17 <achipa> sivang: nope (jailbreaks and hackery notwithstanding)
Jun 16 10:25:28 <sivang> achipa: exactly :)
Jun 16 10:25:51 <sivang> DocScrutinizer: see the wide offering, and also, things are happening. PySide happened, Maemo happened as well :)
Jun 16 10:25:54 <achipa> sivang: and especially not with FULL system integration (system libs, UI bindings, etc)
Jun 16 10:26:24 <sivang> achipa: right, I shut my iPhone freinds mouths everytime they say something and I show them how much contorl I have :)
Jun 16 10:28:35 * DocScrutinizer humbly points to freesmartphone.org v1 (entirely python) on Openmoko
Jun 16 10:28:48 <Venemo> achipa: could you tell me what's the problem with Python, and what is this open letter thing all about?
Jun 16 10:33:44 * kirma eyes maemo wiki page stating that n900 camera is seriously diffraction limited
Jun 16 10:34:58 <kirma> as far as I understand, it's not really too diffraction limited when taking into account the fact that on bayer filter based camera, value of a single sensor pixel doesn't represent the actual color resolution of the device
Jun 16 10:36:18 <RST38h> what is color resolutionanyway?
Jun 16 10:36:37 <sivang> DocScrutinizer: what do you mean it is entrily python? and it is said there that it can be used on Maemo and MeeGo ?
Jun 16 10:36:41 <achipa> Venemo: Python is not an officially supported language/runtime on Maemo/MeeGo. We want to support it becoming one (so you could submit Python(/Python-Qt) apps to Ovi, with the side-effect of working out a way of how to mediate shared libs/runtimes between Ovi and Extras
Jun 16 10:36:49 <kirma> well, I mean, if the camera would be strictly monochromatic, it would be diffraction limited
Jun 16 10:37:21 <kirma> but demosaicing causes closest pixels of same color to be further away than immediately next to each other anyway
Jun 16 10:37:27 <RST38h> even when it is not monochromatic, it is still diffraction limited
Jun 16 10:37:47 <achipa> Venemo: currently, it's in Extras and has the status of community support (even though PyMaemo and PySide are mostly Nokia/subcontractor projects)
Jun 16 10:37:49 <RST38h> kirma: you are simply going to get chromatic aberrations as result of the same diffraction
Jun 16 10:38:03 <RST38h> kirma: So, no free lunch
Jun 16 10:38:09 <kirma> of course
Jun 16 10:38:43 <kirma> but whole claim of "five megapixels" and equating that with good-quality rgb data on every pixel is just so misleading imho ;)
Jun 16 10:38:46 * RST38h doubts diffraction the the problem with those shitty phone cameras
Jun 16 10:38:59 <kirma> most probably not
Jun 16 10:39:21 <RST38h> Plain heat noise dwarfs whatever you are getting from diffraction
Jun 16 10:39:24 <lcuk> kirma, not that it matters, camera saves jpegs by default
Jun 16 10:39:40 <RST38h> lcuk: you can save a pretty decent jpeg
Jun 16 10:39:45 <lcuk> sure
Jun 16 10:39:47 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: let's just limit ourselves to (mainstream) mobile platforms with commercial repositories
Jun 16 10:39:58 <RST38h> lcuk: so, jpeg compression is also not a large factor
Jun 16 10:40:05 <sivang> achipa: ;)
Jun 16 10:40:09 <kirma> camera outputs raw 10-bit data to be exact... software does stuff and rapes it to jpegs after demosaicing and all ;)
Jun 16 10:40:13 <DocScrutinizer2> achipa: what?
Jun 16 10:40:23 <achipa> DocScrutinizer	humbly points to freesmartphone.org v1 (entirely python) on Openmoko
Jun 16 10:40:34 <RST38h> lcuk: main probles are 1) tiny sensor and 2) shitty optics
Jun 16 10:40:45 <DocScrutinizer2> <achipa> DocScrutinizer: let's just limit ourselves to (mainstream) mobile platforms with commercial repositories
Jun 16 10:40:50 <RST38h> lcuk: Both od these are directly related to the need to have a flat camera module
Jun 16 10:40:54 <sivang> RST38h: I wonder how the camera is on N8/9
Jun 16 10:41:03 <RST38h> sivang: probably as shitty.
Jun 16 10:41:13 <sivang> RST38h: on 9 as well?
Jun 16 10:41:14 <achipa> RST38h: shitty or not, it's not diffraction limited. Or you don't calculate diffraction limited the way I do :)
Jun 16 10:41:15 <kirma> kernel-userland inteface actually provides only that 10bpp bayer-filtered sensor data, but somehow they have managed to write gstreamer stuff to not expose this directly, even if v4l2 does
Jun 16 10:41:21 <RST38h> lcuk: The only known way to avoid this limitation has been used in N93/N93i
Jun 16 10:41:28 <lcuk> RST38h, the camera is most certainly not shitty
Jun 16 10:41:38 <RST38h> lcuk: Where the whole camera is located along the edge of the device
Jun 16 10:42:02 <lcuk> its better than any ive had on a *phone*
Jun 16 10:42:02 <RST38h> lcuk: It *is* shitty. No zoom. Most details are smeared, even in daylight
Jun 16 10:42:13 <RST38h> lcuk; Yes, it is pretty good for a phone
Jun 16 10:42:43 <RST38h> lcuk: But compare it with, let us say, a little Casio P&S (definitely not the best camera around), and you will see what I mean
Jun 16 10:42:44 <alterego> what repo is screen in? I can't find it anywhere ...
Jun 16 10:43:04 <DocScrutinizer2> achipa: mobile platform: OM-Y, maemo-Y, commercial repository: what's that? mainstream: OM-N, maemo-N
Jun 16 10:43:09 <RST38h> lcuk: The current N900 camera can be at best compared with Samsung or GE P&Ses
Jun 16 10:43:12 <jacekowski> X-Fade: are you there?
Jun 16 10:43:18 <lcuk> RST38h, completely different, even compact dedicated cameras have more space for light
Jun 16 10:43:21 <kirma> the camera module on n900 can, btw, provide over 12fps on full-sensor resolution
Jun 16 10:43:26 <lcuk> errr lens thingy
Jun 16 10:43:30 <RST38h> lcuk: I.e. absolutely bottom side of the range
Jun 16 10:43:52 <RST38h> lcuk: Well, as I said, the problem is thast you have to keep it flat
Jun 16 10:43:52 * lcuk sees things differently
Jun 16 10:44:08 <RST38h> lcuk: And yes, you can avoid this by placing your camera module alonge the edge of the device
Jun 16 10:44:23 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: exactly, that's what we are saying, Maemo/MeeGo does NOT have it and there is no reason (technical) for not having it
Jun 16 10:44:33 <RST38h> lcuk: http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g6jBuajn6uEllvOdHwVPpHSX_tcc75-H50YiMkxzKGSSrrvXLxlGtnoJnsU_d7X8o_tcqOOWYEH9DmbFdO-Sc3NRxD45U7bFRqQq8d9CM1Gfv5cJ28AjoR-ld7OEnjtKzuF4mYeL5x9zT45Fgmi2-0j1ihkJ44G9PEs_2XJsRwRlD6jgbho_Jjf-T55NRrEkabaZ
Jun 16 10:44:38 <kirma> too bad that happens to be 80 MBps of raw data that nothing really can compress, but it should be possible to do some other nifty things
Jun 16 10:44:53 <RST38h> lcuk: or here: http://www.ixbt.com/mobile/images/nokia/n93/nokia-n93-90.jpg
Jun 16 10:45:29 <lcuk> RST38h, sure, thats got a lens and sensor large enough to let in ample light
Jun 16 10:45:38 <lcuk> kirma, really
Jun 16 10:45:45 <DocScrutinizer2> achipa: mhm. I just don't see the point in the whole debate
Jun 16 10:46:09 <kirma> lcuk: really what?
Jun 16 10:46:13 <achipa> RST38h: Some people tell me my Yaris is the bottom side of the range (the exact expression was toy-car). I look around and it's the best car in the street. Depends on your reference point, I guess.
Jun 16 10:46:26 <lcuk> 12fps full resolution
Jun 16 10:46:42 <haj> mmmmm .. Yaris
Jun 16 10:46:59 <lcuk> achipa, exactly
Jun 16 10:47:10 <kirma> I tried through gstreamer, and saw something like 5fps, but the camera module alone is capable of 12fps... dunno about the hardware around it, exactly
Jun 16 10:47:19 <RST38h> achipa: Yaris still gets you between points A and B
Jun 16 10:47:25 <lcuk> what resolution?
Jun 16 10:47:27 <wazd> everybody seen fake n9 promo? :)
Jun 16 10:47:29 <kirma> should really write direct v4l2 tests to experiment with it
Jun 16 10:47:34 <haj> achipa: I have a Yaris... mostly I ride my bicycle though (Live in Copenhagen)
Jun 16 10:47:38 <lcuk> RST38h, and n900 camera takes excellent shots without carrying another camera
Jun 16 10:47:39 <mece> hello..
Jun 16 10:47:41 <mece> bäck
Jun 16 10:47:44 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: the point is that Ovi DOES want to be a serious commercial channel and MeeGo DOES want to a mainstream platform, and Python (with bindings) DOES exist, and yet... no commercial Python apps are possible
Jun 16 10:47:48 <RST38h> achipa: To get a decent photo with an N900 you have to have lighting conditions exactly right and be very lucky too
Jun 16 10:47:50 <sivang> RST38h: I've takens ome amazing photos with it, comapred even to a normal non prof digicam
Jun 16 10:47:55 <haj> achipa: If it had been any bigger I'd have to spend a lot more time trying to find a place to park it... ;)
Jun 16 10:48:00 <kirma> lcuk: my experiment was with 5 megapixels, 25xx*19xx whatever
Jun 16 10:48:02 <lcuk> sivang, indeed
Jun 16 10:48:08 <lcuk> kirma, interesting
Jun 16 10:49:10 <lcuk> kirma, 5fps is very very nice if capable
Jun 16 10:49:13 <RST38h> sivang: Of course you may have taken good photos with it. It is just that the percentage of such photos is kinda low
Jun 16 10:49:26 <kirma> I didn't store the data anywhere, but when I have more time (I wish!) I should write v4l2 code to experiment both the direct access and writing it so that the peak performance can be measured
Jun 16 10:49:27 <lcuk> at least for full res
Jun 16 10:49:44 <mece> x-fade, thanks, if you did something. Either way the package (qlister 0.2-6) appeared in the page now.
Jun 16 10:49:47 <lcuk> RST38h, some people are optimists - i gather you arent one :p
Jun 16 10:50:01 <kirma> couple raw frames can be held in memory, and by any measure, it should be possible with NEON etc to do quite a bit per frame to select a "good" one out of three, for instance
Jun 16 10:50:21 <pexi> achipa, they want you to know linux system programming and not to use the rapid develop of innovations
Jun 16 10:50:26 <RST38h> lcuk: Yeo, that too
Jun 16 10:50:35 <lcuk> kirma, im thinking object detection requiring full resolution images
Jun 16 10:50:46 <RST38h> lcuk: But I also tried using N900 camera and most results I have got are pretty dismal
Jun 16 10:50:51 <pexi> achipa, for reasons beyond me
Jun 16 10:50:59 <RST38h> lcuk: for a camera, not for a phone, of course
Jun 16 10:51:04 <kirma> lcuk: depends on your definition of "object detection"
Jun 16 10:51:18 <lcuk> kirma, i have my ideas :)
Jun 16 10:51:33 <achipa> let me explain the Yaris thing. People say it's dangerous because mine has a 990 cc engine and that I tempt fate every time I try to take over someone. True, a bigger engine, sportier features would help (well, not on Serbian roads, but I digres). But the Yaris is not a sportscar. That's the point. Ditto for the N900 cam module. It's not a photo camera.
Jun 16 10:51:38 <kirma> lcuk: the camera module spec is here: http://retiisi.dyndns.org/~sakke/foo/SMIA95_AF_camera%20module_APL_090511.doc
Jun 16 10:51:47 <lcuk> RST38h, me and girlfriend went away for a short break recently
Jun 16 10:51:51 <lcuk> we both had n900s
Jun 16 10:52:03 <lcuk> we both took photos of the same things ish
Jun 16 10:52:08 <achipa> but the N900 cam DOES get you from point A to point B
Jun 16 10:52:12 <lcuk> my photos turned out crap and blurry
Jun 16 10:52:22 <mece> achipa, the yaris is good and boring, while the n900 is perhaps a bit sketchy, but very exciting though.
Jun 16 10:52:22 <lcuk> hers (385/290 actually) turned out really well
Jun 16 10:52:31 <mece> achipa, IMO
Jun 16 10:52:34 <lcuk> most camera photography issues are down to the operator
Jun 16 10:52:44 * lcuk knows hes a crap cameraman
Jun 16 10:52:48 <RST38h> lcuk: Drink less :)
Jun 16 10:53:07 <Venemo> alterego: are you here?
Jun 16 10:53:11 <RST38h> lcuk: I have no problem with the blur. I also have no problems making photos with a real camera.
Jun 16 10:53:13 <achipa> mece: after Yugos and Fiat 126s, I can tell you the Yaris is VERY exciting :D
Jun 16 10:53:19 <lcuk> RST38h, wasnt drinkning, was justclosest to a real comparative test i can give you with different results
Jun 16 10:53:20 <pexi> n900 is rather like an italian sports car than japanese people transporter
Jun 16 10:53:30 <pexi> *carrier
Jun 16 10:53:31 <Venemo> achipa: thanks for your explanation, and sorry for my late response
Jun 16 10:53:35 <RST38h> lcuk: But whatever I take with the N900 is only suitable for posting on the web
Jun 16 10:54:08 <RST38h> lcuk: Not to mention thumbnailer kicking in after the first few photos and making the device unusuable for a few minutes
Jun 16 10:54:09 <lcuk> RST38h, we have printed lots of ours out and have saved memories with it :)
Jun 16 10:54:16 <mece> achipa, Fiat 126 is pretty exciting, as int if I crash, will I die or simply be horribly disfigured :D
Jun 16 10:54:27 <achipa> RST38h: yes, the thumbnailer should be put to death, no complaints there
Jun 16 10:54:29 <mece> s/int/in/
Jun 16 10:54:29 <infobot> mece meant: achipa, Fiat 126 is pretty exciting, as in if I crash, will I die or simply be horribly disfigured :D
Jun 16 10:54:29 <lcuk> and if thats not what a camera is for then i dont know what it is
Jun 16 10:54:49 <pexi> fiat 126.. legendary
Jun 16 10:54:54 <pexi> oh teh horror
Jun 16 10:54:59 <mece> LOL
Jun 16 10:55:30 <achipa> mece: yeah, I know the feeling. I have to go 150+ in the Yaris to get the wobbly feel of a 126 at 80 :D
Jun 16 10:55:47 <Venemo> hey alterego, are you there? :P
Jun 16 10:55:55 <alterego> yup
Jun 16 10:55:55 * RST38h looks up Fiat126 and suddenly recognizes what that thing is
Jun 16 10:55:59 <achipa> and I did kiss the ground on two occasions after getting out of my (ex) 126
Jun 16 10:56:25 <RST38h> That sucker is based on Fiat 500, isn't it?
Jun 16 10:56:51 <jacekowski> mece: well, fiat 126p is a quite safe car
Jun 16 10:57:10 <jacekowski> mece: engine is on the back
Jun 16 10:57:14 * sivang wants an Austin Powers' Mini.
Jun 16 10:57:46 <jacekowski> mece: so if somebody hits you into the back he will meet quite heavy engine first and then another meter away is driver seat
Jun 16 10:57:47 <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: lcuk: RST38h: take 12fps while moving focus, and possibly with a 1,4,1,4 sensitivity sequence. Then bufer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic
Jun 16 10:57:53 <alterego> Venemo: you want me to help with you home view issue right? Well, good news, I'm back at home and have my proper computer. Bad news, I'm a bit hung over and I'm about to jump in the shower. Can you hold on about 45 mkinutes for me to sort myself out? :P
Jun 16 10:58:17 <jacekowski> mece: and there is huge crumple zone in front
Jun 16 10:58:19 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer2, i dont want to take best shot, i want to process live images
Jun 16 10:58:33 <lcuk> so effectively using as much data as can get
Jun 16 10:58:36 <jacekowski> mece: and you can't get it to any dangerous speeds anyways
Jun 16 10:58:42 <DocScrutinizer2> lcuk: still my suggestion would avoid autofocus delay
Jun 16 10:58:48 <lcuk> im not interested in saving the favorite after
Jun 16 10:58:51 <lcuk> sure
Jun 16 10:59:07 <lcuk> actually take the combination of photos during the AF selection
Jun 16 10:59:21 <achipa> jacekowski: if someone hits you in the back, you won't have a neck to turn around to see what happened
Jun 16 10:59:24 <DocScrutinizer2> lcuk: HDR also possible that way
Jun 16 10:59:29 <lcuk> yup
Jun 16 10:59:29 <RST38h> lcuk: Anyway, let me give you an example
Jun 16 10:59:38 <RST38h> lcuk: sunny day, panorama, no shake
Jun 16 10:59:49 <jacekowski> achipa: nope
Jun 16 10:59:57 <jacekowski> achipa: engine is heavy and far away from you
Jun 16 11:00:08 <jacekowski> achipa: so lot of energy will be absorbed by it
Jun 16 11:00:20 <achipa> jacekowski: I was getting at the seats - no whiplash protection AT all
Jun 16 11:01:11 <kirma> lcuk: the camera module specification document says 5 megapixels is possible at 12.92 fps... I don't know if OMAP3 ISP or other stuff on N900 supports that
Jun 16 11:01:47 <jacekowski> 5mbit*12 = 60mbit/s
Jun 16 11:01:51 <jacekowski> no way it will handle it
Jun 16 11:01:51 <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: I'd guess the OMAP video IF can cope with that
Jun 16 11:02:32 <kirma> jacekowski: no, 5*12.92*10
Jun 16 11:02:50 <achipa> jacekowski: as for the front... I did have a frontal crash as a passenger with an Audi into a (luckily only parked and completely empty) 126. The impact didn't even trigger the Audi's airbags, but in the 126, the steering wheel was touching the seat. That's when I switched from the 126 to a Yaris.
Jun 16 11:03:07 <RST38h> lcuk: Magnify and check out the details
Jun 16 11:03:34 <kirma> actually more like 6*12.92*10 because there is padding stuff
Jun 16 11:03:37 <DocScrutinizer2> jacekowski: and what is your claim of "OMAP can't cope with 60MBit" based on?
Jun 16 11:04:21 <DocScrutinizer2> jacekowski: look at USB2
Jun 16 11:05:10 <kirma> CCP2 rate listed on the data sheet for that more is 640 MBps... still something that OMAP3 should be able to handle I guess
Jun 16 11:05:16 <lcuk> RST38h, im viewing through vnc
Jun 16 11:05:21 <lcuk> it is meaningless
Jun 16 11:05:47 <Venemo> alterego: sure, np
Jun 16 11:06:25 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer2: but then you have to process it
Jun 16 11:06:40 <DocScrutinizer2> jacekowski: nobody wants to process that
Jun 16 11:06:48 <jacekowski> no?
Jun 16 11:07:23 <DocScrutinizer2> jacekowski: ""...  Then buffer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic""
Jun 16 11:07:30 <jacekowski> hmmmm
Jun 16 11:07:42 <jacekowski> i just calculated it incorrectly
Jun 16 11:07:58 <jacekowski> 24bit*5M*12
Jun 16 11:08:06 <achipa> I recall seeing some bechmarks of the zoom2 doing about 7.5fps in full resolution...
Jun 16 11:08:11 <DocScrutinizer2> still incorrect
Jun 16 11:08:15 <jacekowski> why?
Jun 16 11:08:16 <achipa> (that's a 3430 with a 8mpix cam IIRC)
Jun 16 11:08:24 <DocScrutinizer2> [2010-06-16 13:02:31] <kirma> jacekowski: no, 5*12.92*10
Jun 16 11:08:34 <jacekowski> why *10?
Jun 16 11:08:41 <DocScrutinizer2> see backscroll
Jun 16 11:08:48 <kirma> jacekowski: not 24 bit, raw pixel values are 10 bit, and they're whatever the color component on the bayer filter happens to be for that pixel :)
Jun 16 11:08:54 <DocScrutinizer2> I'm not your backscroll grep
Jun 16 11:09:19 <kirma> achipa: "zoom2" ? hm?
Jun 16 11:09:23 <jacekowski> so you have 600Mbits
Jun 16 11:09:36 <achipa> kirma: TI's reference OMAP3 device
Jun 16 11:09:37 <jacekowski> that would fill n900 ram in 4s
Jun 16 11:09:47 <jacekowski> assuming that you can use all
Jun 16 11:09:47 <DocScrutinizer2> fine
Jun 16 11:09:51 <achipa> kirma: http://mobile.engadget.com/2009/04/07/symbian-foundation-selects-tis-zoom-2-as-first-reference-design/
Jun 16 11:09:53 <DocScrutinizer2> 3s more than needed
Jun 16 11:10:10 <kirma> achipa: I see
Jun 16 11:10:40 <achipa> a sort of 'official' beagleboard
Jun 16 11:10:46 <haj> Hm .. even though it would be "piracy" it would be nice if Vagalume could just save all tracks regardless of copyright... But I guess that tracks are downloaded seperate from the stream.. ?
Jun 16 11:10:55 <kirma> the point of "full-frame video", for me, would be having a back-buffer of couple raw frames which could be quickly analyzed, and the selecting the "best"
Jun 16 11:11:08 <jacekowski> haj: well, it's legal to record anything on radio
Jun 16 11:11:34 <jacekowski> kirma: define analysed
Jun 16 11:11:50 <kirma> memory bandwidth and NEON/SGX performance of OMAP3 should be more than ample to perform some analysis/rescaling for live ~13 fps stream
Jun 16 11:12:10 <jacekowski> kirma: at HD resolution
Jun 16 11:12:15 <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: also with DSP you could probably implement picture stabilization easily
Jun 16 11:12:18 <haj> jacekowski: actually there is a vagalume plugin for saving all tracks... but I guess it would require porting to run on the N900 ;)
Jun 16 11:12:20 <lcuk> kirma, wicked!
Jun 16 11:12:32 <kirma> jacekowski: simple rescaling, viewfinder "demosaicing" (not really it), blurriness estimate
Jun 16 11:12:45 <jacekowski> 2,576 x 1,936 pixels
Jun 16 11:13:12 <jacekowski> 1080p is 1920x1080
Jun 16 11:13:40 <jacekowski> which is less than half of n900 camera resolution
Jun 16 11:14:50 <kirma> absolutely no meaningful video compression could be achieved, though, but some individual-image/rescaled image-to-image analysis might be possible to perform
Jun 16 11:15:20 <jacekowski> not in realtime
Jun 16 11:15:27 <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: diff is surely possible
Jun 16 11:15:46 <jacekowski> so it might be that it takes some images
Jun 16 11:15:48 <DocScrutinizer2> jacekowski: why not ?
Jun 16 11:15:50 <jacekowski> process them
Jun 16 11:16:00 <jacekowski> and then couple seconds later you get ready photo
Jun 16 11:16:01 <lcuk> edge and feature detection analysis is possible certainly
Jun 16 11:16:10 <DocScrutinizer2> jacekowski: exactly
Jun 16 11:16:17 <jacekowski> but that's not realtime
Jun 16 11:16:22 <DocScrutinizer2> lcuk: also exactly
Jun 16 11:16:24 <DocScrutinizer2> :-)
Jun 16 11:16:29 <jacekowski> and thing is
Jun 16 11:16:35 <jacekowski> why photos are fucked up?
Jun 16 11:16:41 <jacekowski> because it's out of focus
Jun 16 11:16:48 <DocScrutinizer2> so ?
Jun 16 11:17:01 <mece> achipa, anywaaaay, http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/4297141997_f688777f43_m.jpg
Jun 16 11:17:01 <kirma> jacekowski: it really depends mostly on memory bandwidth usage, one has to choose algorithms meaningfully and the sizes of rescaled images where they are applied in a sensible way... and then choosing the full-frame raw data for further processing on that basis
Jun 16 11:17:02 <mece> :D
Jun 16 11:17:04 <jacekowski> taking more photos with same focus setting is not going to fix the problem
Jun 16 11:17:06 <achipa> do you want to bracket foxus ?
Jun 16 11:17:12 <DocScrutinizer2> jacekowski: [2010-06-16 12:57:46] <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: lcuk: RST38h: take 12fps while moving focus, and possibly with a 1,4,1,4 sensitivity sequence. Then bufer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic
Jun 16 11:17:16 <lcuk> jacekowski, photos are screwed up often by user error :p
Jun 16 11:17:36 <lcuk> i cant take a decent photo
Jun 16 11:17:40 <lcuk> ever with any camera
Jun 16 11:17:51 <jacekowski> how fast n900 can focus?
Jun 16 11:17:53 <lcuk> but my missus makes even a disposable camera look good
Jun 16 11:17:55 <jacekowski> it's electronic
Jun 16 11:18:13 <jacekowski> but you have to send command to chip over i2c
Jun 16 11:18:14 <MohammadAG> I make a 10MP cam look rubbish
Jun 16 11:18:29 <DocScrutinizer2> jacekowski: please don't start to get silly now
Jun 16 11:18:48 <jacekowski> it will not fix MohammadAG's problem
Jun 16 11:19:02 <lcuk> thats because hes special
Jun 16 11:19:16 <MohammadAG> and he owns a fscked up uSD card :)
Jun 16 11:19:28 <jacekowski> MohammadAG: how you managed to do it?
Jun 16 11:19:49 <DocScrutinizer2> ~ MohammadAG
Jun 16 11:19:50 <infobot> [mohammadag] special
Jun 16 11:20:04 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, not really sure, running fsck
Jun 16 11:20:12 <MohammadAG> to fix it
Jun 16 11:22:35 <kirma> I'm quite intrigued by full frame panorama stitching, potentially even without stopping the camera movement (when it's sufficiently slow). I think that's in some aspects too much to hope to work, but implementing things directly on the raw-sensor bitstream, multithreaded operation with intelligent buffering and sdhc card writing and all might give impressive results nonetheless
Jun 16 11:22:47 <kirma> but probably I don't have time to work at it ;)
Jun 16 11:22:58 <manjiri> ut_mvirtualkeyboard.o: In function `Ut_MVirtualKeyboard::cleanupTestCase()': ut_mvirtualkeyboard.cpp:(.text+0xc43): undefined reference to `MPlainWindow::instance()'
Jun 16 11:23:16 <RST38h> lcuk: Oh
Jun 16 11:23:28 <manjiri> this is the error I am getting while 'making' duikeyboard
Jun 16 11:23:39 <RST38h> lcuk: Well, if you do not look through vnc, you will see that most of the landscape is basically made of spots
Jun 16 11:23:42 <manjiri> which is part of harmattan UI framework
Jun 16 11:23:50 <RST38h> lcuk: probably indicating a really bad lense
Jun 16 11:23:56 <manjiri> Anybody has any suggestions?
Jun 16 11:25:27 <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: one full rotation in 2s, taking 12fps, that should give nice panorama
Jun 16 11:26:57 <kirma> DocScrutinizer2: not really feasible. I'm thinking of something more on the range of full turn in 20 seconds...
Jun 16 11:27:21 <DocScrutinizer2> kirma, why isn't 2s not feasible?
Jun 16 11:27:40 <lcuk> motion blur!
Jun 16 11:27:49 <kirma> the motion blur at that speed is around one pixel at 1/1000 second exposure, which is smallest I've seen on the phone with sunny photography on the phone
Jun 16 11:27:55 <DocScrutinizer2> hmm, that's what I thought about
Jun 16 11:28:05 <DocScrutinizer2> but that depends on exposure time largely
Jun 16 11:28:22 <RST38h> lcuk: in all directions?
Jun 16 11:28:28 <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: which is good ebough I'd say
Jun 16 11:28:39 <RST38h> lcuk: with the close-by grass not shoing any blur?
Jun 16 11:29:04 <RST38h> lcuk: looks like a really bad lense to me
Jun 16 11:29:13 <kirma> interestingly enough, of course, if one would be able to perform motion estimation precisely during the operation, one could stack up data from multiple low-exposure frames on the fly, but I doubt if that can be accomplished
Jun 16 11:30:09 <DocScrutinizer2> actually you can even postprocess compensate for a known motion blurr
Jun 16 11:30:36 <toggles_w>  
Jun 16 11:30:42 <DocScrutinizer2> seen this some years ago, no idea what the rather complex mathematics behind it were
Jun 16 11:31:56 <kirma> postprocessing is of course possible, and with good actual-data based motion estimate, it could be good, but motion blur of more than couple pixels would be already hard to keep acceptable
Jun 16 11:32:04 <DocScrutinizer2> think it was based on virtual inverse holographics
Jun 16 11:33:04 <kirma> NEON, DSP and SGX GPU have computing power sufficient to do many things on the phone, but still pretty limited amount when doing them in real time...
Jun 16 11:33:37 <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: well, you say 1pixel@1/1000s
Jun 16 11:34:36 <kirma> roughly on that ballpark
Jun 16 11:36:47 <DocScrutinizer2> 1 << couple
Jun 16 11:37:19 <kirma> my thought of how things can be done is mostly based on the idea that array and whole picture processing is efficient (and feasibly writable in comparison to DSP) on NEON, and stuff involving texture lookup based processing is most efficient on SGX GPU
Jun 16 11:37:44 <manjiri> Hi, has anybody tried compiling virtual keyboard thats part of Harmattan UI Framework?
Jun 16 11:38:34 <RST38h> kirma: Once again, CPUs are not the bottleneck in mobile devices
Jun 16 11:38:38 <RST38h> kirma: Memory is
Jun 16 11:38:46 <kirma> DMA transfers to SDHC card are relatively fast (one uncompressed full frame per second or so), and transfer of incoming frames should also be relatively free from CPU load viewpoint
Jun 16 11:39:50 <kirma> but of course, if one can't get something like that to run nicely on 8-way desktop system with latest GPU, don't try it on the phone :)
Jun 16 11:40:02 <Herwood> Hi, has anyone tested Harmattan UI framework's widget gallery app? I'm having terribly low fps (2-3) and I was wondering that is it normal.
Jun 16 11:41:10 <Stskeeps> is it software rendering?
Jun 16 11:41:22 <crashanddie> kirma: what size of frame?
Jun 16 11:41:22 <Herwood> yeah
Jun 16 11:41:56 <Herwood> I have dual core cpu, but it seems to suck all the power from it
Jun 16 11:42:26 <achipa> 'device using more power than it is receiving' - that's a new one...
Jun 16 11:42:31 <kirma> crashanddie: 2592x1968 at 10bps
Jun 16 11:42:36 <kirma> 10bpp
Jun 16 11:42:53 <Stskeeps> Herwood: software rendering will suck horridly. ask w00t
Jun 16 11:43:14 * w00t_ reads up
Jun 16 11:43:33 <Herwood> Stskeeps: oh :( is there any way to get it run with hw rendering at x86?
Jun 16 11:43:33 <RST38h> achipa: has been a while
Jun 16 11:43:39 <w00t_> Herwood: how new is your build of libmeegotouch?
Jun 16 11:43:41 <RST38h> achipa: usually when charging from USB
Jun 16 11:44:07 <Herwood> w00t_: I cloned it yesterday from gitorius
Jun 16 11:44:23 <w00t_> okay, what are you running? widgetgallery?
Jun 16 11:44:29 <Herwood> yeah
Jun 16 11:44:44 <achipa> RST38h: have not met it before, but as they say, if you're young enough, every joke is new :)
Jun 16 11:44:47 <Herwood> and it's really slow :P
Jun 16 11:44:51 <w00t_> Herwood: are you passing -software?
Jun 16 11:45:04 <modules> hello, is it possible to use a usb webcam with n900?
Jun 16 11:45:05 <w00t_> (widgetsgallery -software, that is)
Jun 16 11:45:07 <Herwood> w00t_: hmm, I haven't tried that one
Jun 16 11:45:44 <alterego> modules: does the N900 currently have a host USB port?
Jun 16 11:46:01 <Herwood> w00t_: Oujea! It works like a charm! Thanks!
Jun 16 11:46:16 <w00t_> Herwood: np
Jun 16 11:46:16 <manjiri> Hi, has anybody tried compiling virtual keyboard thats part of Harmattan UI Framework?
Jun 16 11:46:25 <alterego> modules: put another way, where on the N900 would you plug it in?
Jun 16 11:46:56 <DocScrutinizer2> achipa: means your battery will be empty eventually, if you don't stop that usage pattern
Jun 16 11:47:14 <w00t_> manjiri: I did a long time ago, though I didn't succeed at the time
Jun 16 11:47:22 <manjiri> ok
Jun 16 11:47:27 <Herwood> w00t_: Is there any page with good hints for using Harmattan UI FW somewhere? I've only browsed through the docs directory found in the source codes.
Jun 16 11:47:38 <haltdef_> so guys, is there any possibility of a working extended battery for the n900? :(
Jun 16 11:47:40 <w00t_> manjiri: if you run into problems.. mention, and i'll see if i know anything helpful :)
Jun 16 11:48:01 <w00t_> Herwood: not really that I know of, as it's a fairly new creation
Jun 16 11:48:04 <lcuk> haltdef_, ive seen mention of one in places
Jun 16 11:48:14 <manjiri> I have been getting the following error: ut_mvirtualkeyboard.o: In function `Ut_MVirtualKeyboard::cleanupTestCase()': ut_mvirtualkeyboard.cpp:(.text+0xc43): undefined reference to `MPlainWindow::instance()'
Jun 16 11:48:17 <manjiri> and more...
Jun 16 11:48:22 <w00t_> Herwood: note that for maximum portability, you probably want to avoid it anyway - and only use it if you specifically need some of the features it provides
Jun 16 11:48:26 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: I realize, just found it funny in a no $#!+ sherlock manner (the message popped up when I *disconnected* the USB cable)
Jun 16 11:48:36 <SpeedEvil> haltdef_: google n900 mugen
Jun 16 11:48:46 <w00t_> manjiri: at a *guess*: make sure you've got an up-to-date copy of libmeegotouch
Jun 16 11:48:48 <haltdef_> just out off by the mugen one because of the mattery meter not working
Jun 16 11:49:09 <haltdef_> not being able to trust the battery meter, ick :(
Jun 16 11:49:32 <SpeedEvil> haltdef_: It would be possible to improve on the stock battery meter with a widget
Jun 16 11:49:34 <modules> aloril: red that n900 has an usb port and somebody is working on software support?
Jun 16 11:50:01 <haltdef_> is it a maemo problem rather than mugen then?
Jun 16 11:50:02 <DocScrutinizer2> achipa: haha. then the detector for negative charging balance was faster than the disconnect detection
Jun 16 11:50:15 <alterego> Heh, finally back on my laptop, I've not used it in a week, been relying on the N900 for the past 5-6 days ^.^
Jun 16 11:50:35 <Herwood> w00t_: yeah, I just wanted to try it out and see how it works and what it offers
Jun 16 11:50:40 <w00t_> Herwood: :)
Jun 16 11:50:53 <alterego> Even managed to get some pretty good coding done.
Jun 16 11:51:17 <DocScrutinizer2> modules: yes. correct :-)
Jun 16 11:51:42 <Shapeshifter> Any German users of Tchibo around? Anyone tried the 1 Euro sim together with the Internet-Flatrate L option? And, does anyone know if I can buy Tchibo SIMs in their shops (or do I have to order online)?
Jun 16 11:51:50 <DocScrutinizer2> haltdef_: exactly
Jun 16 11:52:28 <modules> will this software support also allow to add a usb hub + usb webcam?
Jun 16 11:52:44 <DocScrutinizer2> modules: basically yes
Jun 16 11:52:58 <haltdef_> meh, just live with it sounds like my best bet
Jun 16 11:53:10 <SpeedEvil> haltdef_: yes
Jun 16 11:53:25 <haltdef_> stock battery just about makes it but if I decide to browse over 3g for longer than usual it won't :P
Jun 16 11:53:46 <mece> qlister 0.2-6 is now in testing, fixes an important dependency issue, and enables autorotation. Info: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=716758&postcount=56 vote: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qlister/0.2-6/
Jun 16 11:53:47 <SpeedEvil> haltdef_: A solution that puts the battery meter on the desktop is almost trivial - a couple of lines of shell
Jun 16 11:53:59 <DocScrutinizer2> yep
Jun 16 11:54:13 <DocScrutinizer2> queenbeecon
Jun 16 11:54:18 <haltdef_> that'll show the real percentage remaining when the built in meter lies?
Jun 16 11:54:33 <SpeedEvil> haltdef_: yes.
Jun 16 11:54:44 <haltdef_> excellent, thank you
Jun 16 11:54:45 <DocScrutinizer2> roughly, but more reliable than maemo guestimeter
Jun 16 11:59:28 <mJo> w00t_: MY copy of libmeegotouch is just a coupla days old
Jun 16 12:06:13 <plastun> where to find info about program localization?
Jun 16 12:06:22 <plastun> for maemo, of course
Jun 16 12:06:35 <RST38h> mameo.org?
Jun 16 12:08:28 <RST38h> plastun: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Application_Development/Maemo_Localization
Jun 16 12:08:40 <plastun> RST38h, thnks
Jun 16 12:14:11 <passeli|w> hi, i have this same issue with gdb on N900 -> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=708293#post708293
Jun 16 12:14:20 <passeli|w> cannot install gdb
Jun 16 12:15:58 <SpeedEvil> Can I with amixer save and restore card state easily?
Jun 16 12:16:15 <SpeedEvil> It seems I have to parse the output of 'contents' and feed it in manually
Jun 16 12:18:14 <DocScrutinizer2> SpeedEvil: alsactl -f xxx.state store | restore
Jun 16 12:18:22 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 16 12:18:28 <SpeedEvil> thanks
Jun 16 12:18:32 <DocScrutinizer2> np
Jun 16 12:19:25 <DocScrutinizer2> SpeedEvil: maybe you want to gibe a --card parameter (not checked if alsactl needs or even allows)
Jun 16 12:19:30 <DocScrutinizer2> give
Jun 16 12:20:29 <SpeedEvil> yeah - worked that out
Jun 16 12:20:34 <SpeedEvil> 'store 0
Jun 16 12:21:54 <th3hate> How to move a file from ./MyDocs to home/user/.kmplayer using terminal?
Jun 16 12:21:58 <th3hate> whats the command
Jun 16 12:22:21 <Scelt> cp
Jun 16 12:22:28 <vldcnst> mv
Jun 16 12:22:33 <Scelt> oh, sorry
Jun 16 12:22:33 <DrIDK> Hi ! How can I disable selection in QWebView? Because, when I m trying to move into the page, it select in the same time!
Jun 16 12:22:34 <SpeedEvil> mv ~/MyDocs/file ~/.kmplayer
Jun 16 12:22:35 <Scelt> mv yes
Jun 16 12:23:20 <th3hate> File name is playlist.xml
Jun 16 12:23:29 <th3hate> so mv ~/MyDocs/playlist.xml ~/.kmplayer
Jun 16 12:23:30 <th3hate> ?
Jun 16 12:23:41 <DocScrutinizer2> yep
Jun 16 12:23:43 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 16 12:23:47 <th3hate> thanks
Jun 16 12:23:49 <Scelt> th3hate: you can do it!
Jun 16 12:23:56 <th3hate> need root?
Jun 16 12:24:03 <Scelt> njet
Jun 16 12:24:07 <Scelt> meaning no
Jun 16 12:24:11 <vldcnst> depends..
Jun 16 12:24:13 <Scelt> it's your home
Jun 16 12:24:14 <DrIDK> Second question : I m using QStackedWidget! But I have no button to go back, when I m showing a second widget
Jun 16 12:24:21 <Scelt> but you shouldn't need
Jun 16 12:24:28 <DocScrutinizer2> "man mv "could also help, alas you need to do that on your desktop linux - unless you installed mandb
Jun 16 12:24:30 <Scelt> th3hate: if it says permission denied, use root
Jun 16 12:24:37 <th3hate> ok
Jun 16 12:26:17 <DocScrutinizer2> if it says permission denied, then better doublecheck what you're doing, as the command above will fail under root anyway and odds are you misspelled anything - the user cmd should work for the case you asked about
Jun 16 12:26:39 <th3hate> it worked
Jun 16 12:26:40 <th3hate> thanks
Jun 16 12:27:25 <DocScrutinizer2> th3hate: consider installing package 'mc'
Jun 16 12:27:32 <DocScrutinizer2> midnight commander
Jun 16 12:27:42 <th3hate> it's installed
Jun 16 12:27:45 <th3hate> but don't know how to use it
Jun 16 12:27:48 <th3hate> complicated
Jun 16 12:27:53 <DocScrutinizer2> lol
Jun 16 12:29:32 <sx0n> nokia published profit warning
Jun 16 12:29:35 <DocScrutinizer2> the only complicated thing is you need to use ESC+<number> instead of F<number> to do the commands in bottom line hotkeys. and you need to know F9 = open menu, F0 (aka F10) = close
Jun 16 12:29:58 <DocScrutinizer2> down, nokia, down down down
Jun 16 12:30:17 <sx0n> -8%
Jun 16 12:30:44 <sx0n> -10%
Jun 16 12:30:52 <DocScrutinizer2> o fsck
Jun 16 12:31:09 <DocScrutinizer2> sx0n: live stock?
Jun 16 12:31:16 <sx0n> or something.. no, just old.
Jun 16 12:31:42 <DocScrutinizer2> thought it's going down 2% in 10s :-P
Jun 16 12:32:59 <plastun> should I write some addition code after _ = gettext.gettext for working localization for my program well. (use Python)
Jun 16 12:33:03 <plastun> ?
Jun 16 12:34:01 <DocScrutinizer2> th3hate: maybe yet another thing good to know: ctrl-i is 'mark this dir/file'. then all F5 aka cp, F6 aka mv/ren, F8 aka delete etc will act on all marked items
Jun 16 12:34:29 <th3hate> thats in mc?
Jun 16 12:34:29 <sx0n> DocScrutinizer, about -12.5% in 30 min.
Jun 16 12:36:00 <DocScrutinizer2> th3hate: yes, and it's incorrect. the correct key is usually 'insert' to mark/unmark
Jun 16 12:36:50 <modules> DocScrutinizer2: do you know where i can get more informations about usb + hub (+webcam), maybe a status or something?
Jun 16 12:37:10 <mece> name a pyqt app in extras that's not qlister
Jun 16 12:37:16 <DocScrutinizer2> h-e-n.garage.org
Jun 16 12:38:14 <modules> thx
Jun 16 12:38:36 <DocScrutinizer2> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31921&page=109   and   http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52227&page=14
Jun 16 12:41:39 <Stskeeps> andre__: +1 for your post
Jun 16 12:42:22 <mece>  ~seen Noobmonk3y
Jun 16 12:42:26 <infobot> noobmonk3y <~c2b06924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.176.105.36> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6d 40m 29s ago, saying: 'its an app that needs to be used after you've screwed up your n900 normally'.
Jun 16 12:58:00 <sivang> Stskeeps: which post?
Jun 16 12:58:07 <Stskeeps> planet.maemo.org one
Jun 16 13:00:10 <sivang> Stskeeps: ah, SMS thingy
Jun 16 13:00:14 <sivang> rather odd.
Jun 16 13:00:45 <Stskeeps> ooh. i have liquorice in my backpack
Jun 16 13:00:47 <GAN900> andre__, thanks for putting that out there. ;)
Jun 16 13:01:13 <DocScrutinizer2> GAN900: ??
Jun 16 13:01:13 * Stskeeps misses the activistic and constructive maemo.org
Jun 16 13:01:22 <DocScrutinizer2> aah
Jun 16 13:01:36 <Stskeeps> at least it seems like the heroes are still around and means best
Jun 16 13:01:44 <andre__> GAN900, least I can do before suing them ;-)
Jun 16 13:03:01 <andre__> GAN900, and from the many issues I have at least one I can talk about in public without problems
Jun 16 13:04:20 <GAN900> Stskeeps, suddenly holding a dead platform in your hands and collaborating on a dead website does that to you.
Jun 16 13:05:42 <alterego> teeleelee
Jun 16 13:05:48 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't say dead, but so it goes
Jun 16 13:05:49 <alterego> CTRL+SHIFT+META+l :)
Jun 16 13:06:18 <mece> aaw crap!
Jun 16 13:06:32 <GAN900> Stskeeps, well, we aint the Zaurus community
Jun 16 13:06:45 <GAN900> and it's effectively dead to 90% of people.
Jun 16 13:07:06 <GAN900> Nokia's message to us as a community is an awfully tough one to overcome, too.
Jun 16 13:07:41 <mece> how does one add a screenshot to extras app?
Jun 16 13:08:35 <frals_> mece: maemo.org/downloads, find your package, login and then "edit" in the toolbar
Jun 16 13:08:41 <MohammadAG> mece, open the Downloads page and... nvm
Jun 16 13:08:49 * MohammadAG slaps frals_ 
Jun 16 13:10:02 <mece> I don't see an edit link
Jun 16 13:10:43 <mece> also, guys, could you test/vote for the new verswion, because this dependency issue is seriously annoying. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qlister/0.2-6/
Jun 16 13:11:27 <alterego> I wish some people would vote for my app :P
Jun 16 13:12:02 <mece> alterego, so link it. I don't know what it is or what it does or what it's called.
Jun 16 13:12:05 <GAN900> alterego, which one?
Jun 16 13:12:11 * SpeedEvil votes for apps for sexual favours. Or chocolate.
Jun 16 13:12:14 <MohammadAG> mece, it's in the top bar, page > edit
Jun 16 13:12:19 <MohammadAG> o.O
Jun 16 13:12:27 <mece> frals_, MohammadAG, thanks
Jun 16 13:12:37 <alterego> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.2/
Jun 16 13:13:05 <MohammadAG> lol only two votes (spam tmo!!!)
Jun 16 13:13:21 <alterego> MohammadAG: tried no one is interested obviously :P
Jun 16 13:15:30 <DrIDK> ? No idea how disable selection action in QWebView ? It make me crazy to select text when I scroll down the page!!
Jun 16 13:16:06 <mece> alterego, very cool app!
Jun 16 13:16:21 <mece> ok gotta go.
Jun 16 13:16:46 <alterego> 3 votes! AWESOME :D
Jun 16 13:17:33 <MohammadAG> someone wants a vuvuzela horn app...
Jun 16 13:17:43 <MohammadAG> that thing is so f***ing annoying...
Jun 16 13:17:47 * SpeedEvil is one of those boring people that actually employs the QA checklist, rather than simply thumbing.
Jun 16 13:17:50 <alterego> I don't even know what that is.
Jun 16 13:17:58 <alterego> SpeedEvil: :P
Jun 16 13:18:55 <lcuk> MohammadAG, http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/www.maemo.org
Jun 16 13:19:08 <lcuk> better with bitly actually
Jun 16 13:19:12 <DocScrutinizer2> WTF?! >>You don't have permission to access /aklapper/wp-comments-post.php on this server.<<
Jun 16 13:19:13 <MohammadAG> LOL
Jun 16 13:19:55 <alterego> Is there a dbus call, or something to move between hildon home views?
Jun 16 13:20:05 <DocScrutinizer2> andre__: ^^^
Jun 16 13:20:08 <MohammadAG> lcuk, I'd thank your post if you had one here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56329&page=2 xD
Jun 16 13:20:33 <DocScrutinizer2> andre__: they made you lock your blog's comment function?
Jun 16 13:21:14 <E0x> alterego: hehe is a cool app but is not very "useful"
Jun 16 13:21:15 <E0x> :P
Jun 16 13:21:29 <alterego> E0x: how many apps are useful?
Jun 16 13:21:43 <E0x> not much to be honest
Jun 16 13:22:00 <E0x> what is why i quote "useful"
Jun 16 13:22:14 <alterego> I think it's neat, as an example of how you can integrate two systems already inplace on the N900 to enhance what we already have.
Jun 16 13:22:45 <E0x> my mom think i am neat too
Jun 16 13:22:58 <lcuk> MohammadAG, done
Jun 16 13:23:00 <andre__> DocScrutinizer, who is "they"? :-P and what is your IP address (might be blocked because of spammers)
Jun 16 13:23:11 <DocScrutinizer2> omg
Jun 16 13:23:33 <alterego> E0x: and you might not think it's useful, but a lot of people like doing it. Also, it's me playing around with mafw, and I was going to write a geolocation updating map of where you were, and what you were doing, like listening to, etc. :)
Jun 16 13:23:42 <DocScrutinizer2> they == Nokia, obviously
Jun 16 13:23:50 <MohammadAG> lcuk, done, and lol'd at qwerty's post xD
Jun 16 13:24:37 <E0x> alterego: they already something for location at you status
Jun 16 13:25:08 <andre__> DocScrutinizer: Sorry, but conspiracy theories are already sold out for today. So no Nokia involved. And no, nothing is blocked from here... weird
Jun 16 13:25:41 <alterego> E0x: but that's now what I said is it :P
Jun 16 13:25:52 <alterego> E0x: Mine's the opposite, it's a timeline, displayed on a map.
Jun 16 13:25:59 <alterego> Not updating IM status with your location
Jun 16 13:26:27 <DocScrutinizer2> andre__: well, so let me tell you here I think Nokia really screwed it this time
Jun 16 13:26:42 <DocScrutinizer2> and I hope it'll hurt
Jun 16 13:27:26 <E0x> alterego: oh ok , i got it
Jun 16 13:27:30 <achipa> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2WH8mHJnhM
Jun 16 13:27:32 <achipa> that hurts
Jun 16 13:28:31 <ghostcube> huhu, any news for da rollercoaster game
Jun 16 13:28:37 <DocScrutinizer2> and I bet it will, as that's a safe case for any german lawyer
Jun 16 13:28:41 <ghostcube> and who is doing blessn900 and mamsynth
Jun 16 13:30:06 <pupnik> what are those ghostcube
Jun 16 13:30:18 <DocScrutinizer2> andre__: ""Abmahnwelle""
Jun 16 13:30:45 <ghostcube> hmmmm yeah our lawyers are stupid bad asses
Jun 16 13:31:17 <DocScrutinizer2> you bet they are, and they know when it's easy money, like 1000 bucks for a letter
Jun 16 13:31:18 <ghostcube> pupnik: BlessN900 is an photo app working nice but some things to mention and maemsynth is an synthi for maemo just wanting to say good work and keep it going
Jun 16 13:31:37 <ghostcube> DocScrutinizer i have my own lawyer here a room cross the floor
Jun 16 13:31:49 <ghostcube> and i know there are some bastards of them in germany
Jun 16 13:31:52 <ghostcube> :)
Jun 16 13:31:56 <pupnik> ty, wonderful to see some music program
Jun 16 13:31:56 <MohammadAG51> are HDR pics supposed to be bad looking? :P
Jun 16 13:32:11 <pupnik> now give us host mode so we can hook up midi-controllers to n900
Jun 16 13:32:15 <ghostcube> pupnik: maemsynth has a nice beat machine now inside
Jun 16 13:32:34 <ghostcube> woah i loaded an HD MKV yesterday into mplayer
Jun 16 13:32:37 <ghostcube> BAD IDEA
Jun 16 13:32:39 <ghostcube> :D
Jun 16 13:34:43 <E0x> ghostcube: but with multitouch is not very good play with maemsynth
Jun 16 13:34:50 <DocScrutinizer2> andre__: you know how much of the premium SMS fee is for Nokia, per SMS?
Jun 16 13:35:13 <ghostcube> E0x: yeah thats right
Jun 16 13:35:18 <ghostcube> http://pymt.eu/
Jun 16 13:35:23 <ghostcube> :) could solve it maybe
Jun 16 13:35:24 <andre__> DocScrutinizer, no idea
Jun 16 13:35:59 <DocScrutinizer2> I doubt this will be a black number under that line in the end for Nokia
Jun 16 13:42:12 <Mece> alterego, what was your app called again?
Jun 16 13:42:41 <MohammadAG51> media-im-status-updater
Jun 16 13:44:14 <Mece> wait a sec, is pyside in extras?
Jun 16 13:44:44 <Venemo> hey
Jun 16 13:45:00 <Venemo> if anyone has seen the "Get Started" upp
Jun 16 13:45:06 <Venemo> (I launched it just now accidentally)
Jun 16 13:45:19 <Venemo> what is the background on the desktop in that stuff?
Jun 16 13:45:34 <MohammadAG51> Nseries from the N95 8GB iirc
Jun 16 13:45:50 <MohammadAG51> black shades right?
Jun 16 14:04:15 <Dassu> gotta tell you guys that Im pretty suprised of opera's potrait usability
Jun 16 14:04:45 * Dassu wonders if it has adblock feature
Jun 16 14:08:31 <PhonicUK> hey all
Jun 16 14:08:36 <PhonicUK> which is better, MAME or SDLMAME?
Jun 16 14:08:41 <PhonicUK> or are they actually the same?
Jun 16 14:09:15 <PhonicUK> nm, MAME is the new version
Jun 16 14:09:21 <PhonicUK> btw hi everyone ^_^
Jun 16 14:11:10 <_berto_> never tried MAME in the n900, does it work at a good speed?
Jun 16 14:18:43 <Dassu> woot opera is pretty cool actually. Not like firefox which is simply a microb clone
Jun 16 14:19:26 <pupnik> those MAMEs could use some work
Jun 16 14:20:52 <jacekowski> Dassu: yeah, but i really want notes in it as well
Jun 16 14:25:37 <PhonicUK> _berto_, I tried it with Metal Slug - playable but very slow
Jun 16 14:25:47 <PhonicUK> I guess around 30-50% speed
Jun 16 14:26:10 <_berto_> ugh
Jun 16 14:26:17 <_berto_> I'd like to try older games anyway
Jun 16 14:26:30 <_berto_> pitfall, ghosts n goblins,
Jun 16 14:26:43 <_berto_> the former should work ok I guess
Jun 16 14:27:26 <PhonicUK> Needs an option to disable sound really
Jun 16 14:27:48 <_berto_> I guess you can tweak xmame.cfg
Jun 16 14:27:48 <SpeedEvil> stop pulseaudio
Jun 16 14:27:54 <_berto_> even if it's from the command line
Jun 16 14:28:15 <PhonicUK> i changed it a little using nano :)
Jun 16 14:28:37 <_berto_> then there are a few things that you can change to make it faster
Jun 16 14:29:38 <PhonicUK> ooh?
Jun 16 14:29:51 <PhonicUK> like?
Jun 16 14:30:54 <_berto_> frame drop
Jun 16 14:31:07 <PhonicUK> already got that on
Jun 16 14:31:13 <_berto_> sound on/off
Jun 16 14:31:44 <_berto_> I don't remember, man xmame lists a few
Jun 16 14:31:50 <_berto_> but I haven't changed it for years
Jun 16 14:32:17 <_berto_> that was necessary with my old 486, but not now with a Core 2 :)
Jun 16 14:32:21 <PhonicUK> lol
Jun 16 14:32:32 <PhonicUK> I'm tempted to OC' to 900MHz
Jun 16 14:32:37 <PhonicUK> but don't really wanna void the warranty
Jun 16 14:32:41 <pupnik> renaming romsets is always fun
Jun 16 14:36:36 <_berto_> does that still happen?
Jun 16 14:38:28 <pupnik> i wouldn't know
Jun 16 14:39:20 <pupnik> i think it would be possible to make desktop links to launch mame for specific games, setting controlls for each
Jun 16 15:08:42 * GAN900 thinks it's time to unsticky the brainstorm threads.
Jun 16 15:08:57 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 15:09:33 <pupnik> how happy are you with brainstorms leading to actionable decisions?
Jun 16 15:11:11 <pupnik> wonder if kotczarny is alive
Jun 16 15:13:42 <alterego> pupnik: there have been a couple that have been fruitful from what I remember.
Jun 16 15:13:48 <alterego> Mostly they don't though?
Jun 16 15:15:03 <pupnik> well that's to be expected
Jun 16 15:15:22 <pupnik> but if somethings do come of it, i think the idea is a success
Jun 16 15:15:42 <DrIDK> how can I test if I m using maemo or not ?      If ( Maemo) do it...
Jun 16 15:16:11 <sivang> pupnik: speaking about some of my threads ? :)
Jun 16 15:16:12 <DrIDK> or #ifndef ....
Jun 16 15:16:40 <pupnik> at compile time or run-time DrIDK
Jun 16 15:17:29 <DrIDK> compile tilme
Jun 16 15:17:37 <DrIDK> pupnik: compile tie
Jun 16 15:17:40 <DrIDK> pupnik: compile time
Jun 16 15:21:15 <pupnik> i don't recall how to get it into the makefile/configure but everyone uses #ifdef MAEMO
Jun 16 15:23:40 <DocScrutinizer2> PhonicUK: you particularly don't want to get bashed for doing stupid things for the rest of your life
Jun 16 15:25:17 <PhonicUK> eh?
Jun 16 15:25:29 <PhonicUK> ah, tab completion
Jun 16 15:25:42 <DocScrutinizer2> eh? OC
Jun 16 15:29:05 <PhonicUK> ?
Jun 16 15:29:12 <PhonicUK> aah
Jun 16 15:29:31 <PhonicUK> I thought you where talking to pupnik because of the delay xD
Jun 16 15:30:06 <jacekowski> so you're saying that DocScrutinizer2 is slow?
Jun 16 15:32:39 <DocScrutinizer2> ~overclocking
Jun 16 15:32:40 <infobot> "OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"
Jun 16 15:33:23 <sivang> DocScrutinizer2: good never comes out of it that's for sure :)
Jun 16 15:34:32 <alterego> Anyone here know much about gconf and notify callbacks?
Jun 16 15:39:19 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer2, lol.
Jun 16 15:39:38 <DocScrutinizer2> GAN900: ?
Jun 16 15:39:38 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer2, but maybe if you let them overclock they'll die of radiation exposure.
Jun 16 15:39:48 <DocScrutinizer2> hehe
Jun 16 15:39:53 * GAN900 hears overclocking increases the gamma output.
Jun 16 15:40:20 <Venemo> what gamma output?
Jun 16 15:40:31 <Venemo> this is nonsense
Jun 16 15:40:39 <DocScrutinizer2> sure, the field gradients in such a small chip exceed the GV/m range easily :-)
Jun 16 15:40:53 <pupnik> it's really the alpha radiation you gotta watch out for, when eating n900s
Jun 16 15:41:25 <alterego> Anyone know why this doesn't work? http://pastie.org/1006992
Jun 16 15:42:19 <GAN900> pupnik, thankfully the case blocks most of that.
Jun 16 15:42:30 <MohammadAG51> Not me, but media-im-status-updater updates video statuses too
Jun 16 15:42:55 <MohammadAG51> so I get <unknown> for both fields, and I'm not even listening to anything
Jun 16 15:42:59 <alterego> MohammadAG51: Yes, it does :P
Jun 16 15:43:14 <alterego> That's going to be fixed in the next version.
Jun 16 15:43:22 <alterego> Along with support for internet radio
Jun 16 15:43:50 <MohammadAG51> cool!
Jun 16 15:44:48 <GAN900> Now everybody can know what I'm consuming at all hours!
Jun 16 15:46:11 <alterego> Oh, I need to to 'add_dir' ..
Jun 16 15:47:15 <E0x> alterego: yes
Jun 16 15:47:22 <E0x> hehe iwas looking for it now
Jun 16 15:47:25 <E0x> too late
Jun 16 15:47:27 <alterego> :)
Jun 16 15:47:31 <E0x> i do exactly the same thing
Jun 16 15:47:38 <E0x> for a workspace indicator
Jun 16 15:47:44 <alterego> Cool
Jun 16 15:47:48 <alterego> :)
Jun 16 15:48:23 <E0x> but not remember the function name of gconf-lib and i was looking for it
Jun 16 15:48:47 <alterego> :)
Jun 16 15:49:47 <E0x> and my code is at home
Jun 16 15:49:49 <GAN900> alterego, when will it report the name of the website you're browsing? :P
Jun 16 15:49:56 <E0x> ( at work righ now )
Jun 16 15:49:59 <alterego> GAN900: that's a different app :P
Jun 16 15:50:07 <alterego> microb-im-status-updater :P
Jun 16 15:50:22 <MohammadAG51> Cool!
Jun 16 15:50:34 <MohammadAG51> Now everyone can know when I'm watching....
Jun 16 15:50:40 <MohammadAG51> the world cup
Jun 16 15:50:40 <alterego> :)
Jun 16 15:50:43 <alterego> Hah
Jun 16 15:51:08 <E0x> or www.xvideos.com
Jun 16 15:51:13 <E0x> ( NSFW)
Jun 16 15:51:21 <MohammadAG51> tsk tsk tsk
Jun 16 15:51:43 <MohammadAG51> you should say NSFW 6 seconds before you put up a link, not after
Jun 16 15:51:49 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 15:52:15 <E0x> MohammadAG51: sorry , my bad
Jun 16 15:52:16 <E0x> :(
Jun 16 15:52:43 <MohammadAG51> lol idc, but someone out of those > 557 might
Jun 16 15:54:44 <jacekowski> MohammadAG51: what you were expecting from that link?
Jun 16 15:54:50 <jacekowski> with X in it
Jun 16 15:55:02 <jacekowski> x in name adds 90% to probability of it being porn
Jun 16 15:56:26 <lcuk> and when you exclude xmen xgames castlemine xxxx, you are left with 99.999%
Jun 16 15:56:50 <frals> :D
Jun 16 15:56:52 <MohammadAG51> or a x = kiss
Jun 16 15:57:14 <E0x> kiss = sex
Jun 16 15:57:35 <MohammadAG51> jacekowski, I was expecting a repository of...
Jun 16 15:57:41 <frals> kiss = pee in swedish :<
Jun 16 15:57:49 <MohammadAG51> rofl
Jun 16 15:57:54 <frals> tis true
Jun 16 15:57:56 <E0x> pee =  pr0n
Jun 16 15:58:43 <pupnik> offtopic E0x is offtopic
Jun 16 15:59:01 <jacekowski> pr0n isn't offtopic
Jun 16 15:59:08 <E0x> hehe
Jun 16 15:59:44 <E0x> Ansel-A is really cool btw
Jun 16 16:01:10 <MohammadAG51> hmm
Jun 16 16:01:13 <alterego> Might have a play with it later.
Jun 16 16:01:49 <MohammadAG51> why does everyone refer to porn as pr0n, it's not like... everyone doesn't already know what it means
Jun 16 16:02:07 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 16:02:16 <E0x> MohammadAG51: well i start use it back in the irc download pr0n time
Jun 16 16:02:21 <vldcnst> work obfuscated
Jun 16 16:02:27 <E0x> and was the term used , i don't exactly the orgin of it
Jun 16 16:02:36 <E0x> but i can't stop of use it in that way
Jun 16 16:03:21 <MohammadAG51> vldcnst, I doubt your boss doesn't know what pr0n means
Jun 16 16:03:48 <vldcnst> MohammadAG51: I don't have a boss, and if I did I doubt he would.
Jun 16 16:03:59 <alterego> E0x: so what does your current workspace app do?
Jun 16 16:04:10 <alterego> Does it show a notification with the number of the view or something>
Jun 16 16:04:11 <alterego> ?
Jun 16 16:04:16 <E0x> back to the n900 topic , hmm i not sure if is the right way of work but when i go to zone without 3g signal i get 2.5g of course but when i back to the are with 3g signal my phone donde come back ( automatic ) to 3g , some time it did it but 98% not
Jun 16 16:04:51 <MohammadAG51> just make a call or something
Jun 16 16:04:54 <E0x> alterego: that part i don't complete yet but i was looking for show it in the desktop and fade it out
Jun 16 16:05:04 <alterego> Ah, right.
Jun 16 16:05:05 <E0x> ( the number of the current destkop )
Jun 16 16:05:13 <alterego> Why not just use a hildon notification? :P
Jun 16 16:05:22 <E0x> alterego: yes was a option
Jun 16 16:05:23 <Mece> E0x, I think it goes 3G if there is demand.
Jun 16 16:05:31 <E0x> Mece: yes is what i do
Jun 16 16:05:39 <E0x> oh wait
Jun 16 16:05:44 <E0x> you mean if i go to the browser
Jun 16 16:05:51 <E0x> and star video some video or something ?
Jun 16 16:06:01 <Mece> for example
Jun 16 16:06:22 <E0x> ( righ now i use the apple swicher put it 3g then go back to dual and it stay in 3g )
Jun 16 16:06:34 <E0x> Mece: in that case not , is not work
Jun 16 16:06:42 <E0x> i need do it manually
Jun 16 16:09:22 <Mece> E0x, ok.
Jun 16 16:09:54 <E0x> alterego: what you will do ?
Jun 16 16:09:59 <E0x> your*
Jun 16 16:11:20 <alterego> E0x: Oh, I'm not actually doing anything with it, I was helping Venemo with his home view issue.
Jun 16 16:11:38 <E0x> home view ?
Jun 16 16:11:59 <alterego> E0x: that's the proper name for "workspace" in maemo/hildon-home terms :P
Jun 16 16:12:12 <E0x> alterego: maybe i will change my app to a pager , something ( like the linux one )
Jun 16 16:12:19 <E0x> ok
Jun 16 16:12:22 <alterego> Cool
Jun 16 16:12:47 * E0x if my lazyness let me do it 
Jun 16 16:12:59 <alterego> The idea is, when he detects that a certain home view is being displayed he can create his desktop applets for that display.
Jun 16 16:13:28 <alterego> Which will allow him to dynamically add applets to all home views and restore them after a system restart.
Jun 16 16:13:49 <alterego> Without having to use a home plugin loader.
Jun 16 16:14:31 <E0x> ok
Jun 16 16:15:21 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; Hi, how's it going?
Jun 16 16:32:21 <timeless_mbp> hi
Jun 16 16:32:24 <timeless_mbp> i'm distracted
Jun 16 16:32:29 <timeless_mbp> i have one or two minor things to do for l10n
Jun 16 16:32:41 <timeless_mbp> but in front of that is maemo 1.2 mxr
Jun 16 16:32:46 <timeless_mbp> in front of that is meego mxr
Jun 16 16:32:53 <timeless_mbp> and in front of that is bonsai-hg (graph)
Jun 16 16:33:01 <timeless_mbp> the graph stuff is nearly done, hopefully by tomorrow
Jun 16 16:33:45 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; you should clone yourself
Jun 16 16:34:42 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; do you work with n900 when doing meego or you got some new secret device?
Jun 16 16:35:01 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 16:35:12 <alterego> Even Nokia are working with the N900 for MeeGo Trizt
Jun 16 16:35:24 <MohammadAG51> if it's the latter he won't say anything about it...
Jun 16 16:35:29 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 16:35:57 <timeless_mbp> i use amazon cloud when working w/ meego
Jun 16 16:36:00 <timeless_mbp> it's a secret ec2
Jun 16 16:36:10 <Trizt> Then I'll ask a friend of mine and hear what kind of meego device they use ;)
Jun 16 16:36:12 <timeless_mbp> i also use a secret macbook pro
Jun 16 16:36:38 <MohammadAG51> so secret even your nick doesn't say _mbp
Jun 16 16:37:46 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 16:38:03 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, yeah he normally has it after his nick
Jun 16 16:38:06 <lcuk> but now, theres not
Jun 16 16:38:07 <alterego> Looks like since PR1.2 the forecasted development increase from the community is occuring.
Jun 16 16:38:07 <lcuk> <Trizt> Then I'll ask a friend of mine and hear what kind of meego device they use ;)
Jun 16 16:38:08 <lcuk> <timeless> i also use a secret macbook pro
Jun 16 16:38:08 <lcuk> * teilzeitstudent has quit (Quit: Leaving)
Jun 16 16:38:39 <lcuk> alterego, where was this forecast predicted?
Jun 16 16:40:15 <alterego> lcuk: Just general chit-chat on tmo I guess.
Jun 16 16:40:42 <alterego> And the fact that people seemed to say they were waiting for PR1.2 to be released before they'd develop certain things.
Jun 16 16:40:50 <alterego> Even the whining seems to have calmed down.
Jun 16 16:40:57 <lcuk> its not wrong :) ive seen lots of chatter about it, the qt on flash changes things for many folks
Jun 16 16:41:02 <alterego> Though I'd imagine it's because the whiners have got bored of it by now :)
Jun 16 16:42:36 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; I guess those "fixes/checks" for pr1.1.1 has not been done?
Jun 16 16:42:51 <timeless_mbp> ?
Jun 16 16:43:02 <timeless_mbp> hrm, is 1.1.1 broken?
Jun 16 16:43:06 <timeless_mbp> (in my locale stuff)
Jun 16 16:43:52 <Trizt> timeless_mbp; last time we talked, you were looking for a tester to test the latest fixes you had done
Jun 16 16:45:04 <timeless_mbp> oh, i don't think i got a tester
Jun 16 16:45:24 <MohammadAG51> you did
Jun 16 16:45:31 <MohammadAG51> and it worked
Jun 16 16:45:42 <timeless_mbp> oh, ok :)
Jun 16 16:45:49 <SpeedEvil> What's the beagle channel again - I forgot.
Jun 16 16:45:50 * timeless_mbp has no working memory :)
Jun 16 16:46:02 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: beagle
Jun 16 16:46:13 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: Damn their complicated nomenclature.
Jun 16 16:50:12 * SpeedEvil wonders if adobe could be convinced to hand out a 'adaption kit' to a community organisation.
Jun 16 16:53:18 <Gadgetoid_iPad> I wonder if Adobe could be convinced to die in a car crash
Jun 16 16:53:54 <MohammadAG51> I wonder if Apple could be convinced to choke on an.... Apple
Jun 16 16:54:25 <Gadgetoid_iPad> If you could choke Apple, it'd cough up money
Jun 16 16:54:33 <Gadgetoid_iPad> If you could choke Adobe, they'd steal your wallet
Jun 16 16:55:27 <Gadgetoid_iPad> Here, have some software that hasn't been updated significantly in 10 years, and is buggier than a superglue covered abacus: only £5000
Jun 16 16:56:43 <alterego> Gadgetoid_iPad: you base that assumption on any facts?
Jun 16 16:56:52 <alterego> Gadgetoid_iPad: and leave if all you're going to do is troll please.
Jun 16 16:57:32 <MohammadAG51> why, he's talking about the iPad :)
Jun 16 16:58:53 <alterego> I thought he was knocking adobe and clearly being an Apple ganboi.
Jun 16 16:58:59 <alterego> fan/gay-boi :P
Jun 16 16:59:09 <alterego> At least, that's what it sounded like to me.
Jun 16 16:59:36 <MohammadAG51> nah, he frequents this place
Jun 16 16:59:40 <MohammadAG51> I'm sure he's not a troll
Jun 16 17:00:06 <alterego> Fair nuff, my mistake
Jun 16 17:00:13 <alterego> I get grouchy when I'm hungry :P
Jun 16 17:00:28 <alterego> Got stir fry tonight though, so I'll be happy again in no time :D
Jun 16 17:00:41 <MohammadAG51> lol
Jun 16 17:02:14 <RST38h> moo punks
Jun 16 17:03:35 <pupnik> timeless_mbp: i've said before that i think i have about 64KB real working memory
Jun 16 17:03:49 <pupnik> the rest is swapped to google and notes
Jun 16 17:04:52 <RST38h> pupnik: have you run the pattern test on the remaining 64kB?
Jun 16 17:05:00 <RST38h> no bad cells? =)
Jun 16 17:05:42 <pupnik> holographic memory ftw
Jun 16 17:08:55 <Gadgetoid_iPad> alterego: who, what, when, where?
Jun 16 17:09:29 <RST38h> Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac to delist shares from NYSE
Jun 16 17:09:34 * RST38h laughs satanically
Jun 16 17:09:58 <Gadgetoid_iPad> I was definitely knocking Adobe, though!
Jun 16 17:10:07 <alterego> :)
Jun 16 17:10:24 <Gadgetoid_iPad> But I have too short a gadget attention span to be an Apple fanboi
Jun 16 17:10:27 <alterego> Gadgetoid_iPad: because Jobs told you to? Or because you have some kind of facts to back up that statement?
Jun 16 17:10:41 <Gadgetoid_iPad> alterego: I hated Adobe long before the whole silly flash fiasco
Jun 16 17:10:47 <Gadgetoid_iPad> I hated Adobe BEFORE it was cool
Jun 16 17:10:55 <Gadgetoid_iPad> Goddamn Apple hipsters have made hating Adobe a bad thing now!
Jun 16 17:11:10 <alterego> Well, you have a point.
Jun 16 17:11:12 <Gadgetoid_iPad> So I publicly declare my hate for Autodesk!
Jun 16 17:11:22 <alterego> Though, I don't hate adobe, but I've always been quite against Flash
Jun 16 17:11:29 <alterego> That is until BBC iPlayer ..
Jun 16 17:11:43 <Gadgetoid_iPad> BBC iPlayer is flash? weird... works well on my iPad
Jun 16 17:11:53 <MohammadAG51> move out of the UK, problem solved
Jun 16 17:11:54 <Gadgetoid_iPad> I always thought iPlayer used gypsy magic
Jun 16 17:12:11 <alterego> Gadgetoid_iPad: they have iPhone support, which is probably what you're seeing.
Jun 16 17:12:13 <MohammadAG51> HTML5 prolly (on the iCrap :P)
Jun 16 17:12:19 <alterego> Some h264 encoded or something.
Jun 16 17:12:26 <MohammadAG51> yeah, html5
Jun 16 17:13:44 <MohammadAG51> why does CPU usage skyhigh when my battery is low
Jun 16 17:13:58 <alterego> Last great grasp of life? :P
Jun 16 17:14:10 <MohammadAG51> xD
Jun 16 17:14:32 <Gadgetoid_iPad> There may be things fundamentally wrong with Flash, but some good things can be accomplished with it
Jun 16 17:14:36 <alterego> I should probably attempt to install scratchbox SDK at some point.
Jun 16 17:14:45 <alterego> As I'm going to need it very soon :/
Jun 16 17:15:13 <MohammadAG51> nah
Jun 16 17:15:17 <MohammadAG51> just use devel
Jun 16 17:15:18 <MohammadAG51> xD
Jun 16 17:15:53 * MohammadAG51 stabs trackerd
Jun 16 17:16:21 <alterego> Hungry, where is this damn food
Jun 16 17:17:28 <timeless_mbp> pupnik:  heh
Jun 16 17:17:46 <Gadgetoid_iPad> pssst... the iPad really isn't crap!
Jun 16 17:17:57 <MohammadAG51> meh
Jun 16 17:18:05 <Gadgetoid_iPad> specially if you want to shut up a wife for a few hours!
Jun 16 17:18:12 <MohammadAG51> o.o
Jun 16 17:18:36 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 17:18:48 <pupnik>  < Gadgetoid_iPad> Goddamn Apple hipsters have made hating Adobe a bad thing now!  << QOTD :)
Jun 16 17:18:49 <alterego> After seeing that MeeGo tablet, the iPad looks like a toy :P
Jun 16 17:19:10 <Gadgetoid_iPad> pupnik:  it's goddamn true, though!
Jun 16 17:19:22 <alterego> The iPad, well, it's just too rubbish to be useful.
Jun 16 17:19:24 <alterego> To me at least.
Jun 16 17:19:26 <MohammadAG51> actually
Jun 16 17:19:35 <MohammadAG51> a proper laptop can never be replaced
Jun 16 17:19:47 <alterego> MohammadAG51: who said anything about replacing a laptop? :P
Jun 16 17:19:56 <MohammadAG51> Most apple fanboys
Jun 16 17:20:02 <alterego> I wouldn't get rid of mine for a tablet, but the tablet would be useful for other things that don't require a laptop.
Jun 16 17:20:03 <Gadgetoid_iPad> most a
Jun 16 17:20:04 <DocScrutinizer> Gadgetoid_iPad: I wonder if a frying pan could be used the same way and wouldn't break like the iPad
Jun 16 17:20:15 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 17:20:21 <Gadgetoid_iPad> most apple fanboys dont do anything productive on their laptops
Jun 16 17:20:28 <MohammadAG51> I know
Jun 16 17:20:38 <pexi> what's wrong with iPad? best e-book reader so far
Jun 16 17:20:44 <Gadgetoid_iPad> they just dick about in coffee shops and attempt to look hip
Jun 16 17:20:44 <alterego> Gadgetoid_iPad: except flame on other peoples forums :P
Jun 16 17:20:49 <alterego> About how great Apple is ^.^
Jun 16 17:20:53 <MohammadAG51> Nothing would replace books too
Jun 16 17:21:02 <alterego> And post boring youtube videos about Steve Jobs' crappy keynotes.
Jun 16 17:21:11 <MohammadAG51> tbh
Jun 16 17:21:16 <MohammadAG51> I was never against apple
Jun 16 17:21:22 <MohammadAG51> till the iPhone came out
Jun 16 17:21:27 <Gadgetoid_iPad> I get real work done on my laptop, and bought the ipad to dick about in coffee shops looking hip
Jun 16 17:21:31 <MohammadAG51> actually
Jun 16 17:21:35 <MohammadAG51> I liked the iphone
Jun 16 17:21:41 <sivang> alterego: right :)
Jun 16 17:21:43 <pexi> ipad is great for reading books
Jun 16 17:21:45 <MohammadAG51> then saw its users online, and went for an N95
Jun 16 17:21:47 <pexi> and articles
Jun 16 17:22:07 <sivang> MohammadAG51: they haven't been doing ti completely right even before that, but the level of lock down reached new hights.
Jun 16 17:22:11 <Gadgetoid_iPad> MohammadAG51:  hahahaha
Jun 16 17:22:26 <alterego> pexi: I disagree, if you want to read stuff eink is probably a much better technology .
Jun 16 17:22:30 <Gadgetoid_iPad> i used to use an iPhone, but moved to the n900 when it got popular
Jun 16 17:22:30 <sivang> MohammadAG51: what's wrong with their users online?
Jun 16 17:22:31 <MohammadAG51> that was, umm, in 2006 i think
Jun 16 17:22:40 <sivang> Gadgetoid_iPad: popular?
Jun 16 17:22:44 <alterego> iPads will cause eye strain, you can't seriously read a lot with one of them ..
Jun 16 17:22:51 <pexi> the problem with ipad is that it is such a great product that people just want more than it is meant to be :)
Jun 16 17:22:52 <MohammadAG51> sivang, oh nothing, nothing at all, check other forums and see how they start flame wars
Jun 16 17:22:56 <Gadgetoid_iPad> sivang:  the iPhone, not the n900
Jun 16 17:22:57 <sivang> hehe
Jun 16 17:23:12 <Gadgetoid_iPad> the only place the n900 is popular, is ebay
Jun 16 17:23:15 <MohammadAG51> check youtube comments (thought most of youtube is flamewars)
Jun 16 17:23:21 <sivang> Gadgetoid_iPad: you moved to iphone when it got popular?
Jun 16 17:23:55 <alterego> pexi: that's not the problem with the iPad, the problem with the iPad just like the problem with all the iPhone's is, it's shit.
Jun 16 17:23:56 <GAN900> alterego, I read a lot with my N900. :P
Jun 16 17:23:58 <Gadgetoid_iPad> alterego:  its a myth that displays cause eye strain! never had a problem myself
Jun 16 17:23:59 <alterego> Doesn't have any features.
Jun 16 17:24:02 <Dassu> btw has anybody else noticed that n900 places "cursor" in the middle of the presses?
Jun 16 17:24:09 <sivang> alterego: heh
Jun 16 17:24:10 <Gadgetoid_iPad> sivang:  i moved to the n900 when the iphone got popular
Jun 16 17:24:13 <MohammadAG51> I hate how, for example, _some_ iPhone users think youtube was made by apple, cause there's a preinstalled youtube app
Jun 16 17:24:16 <alterego> It's a joke compared to even cheap smartphones on the market.
Jun 16 17:24:17 <sivang> Gadgetoid_iPad: I see
Jun 16 17:24:25 <pexi> alterego, well, for me iPad is the best substitute for a real book
Jun 16 17:24:26 <alterego> Yet people get it, because it's "pretty", and it comes from Apple ..
Jun 16 17:24:34 <sivang> MohammadAG51: tell them to browse to it in iphone :)
Jun 16 17:24:42 <Gadgetoid_iPad> wait, youtube wasn't made by apple? omg this changes everything!
Jun 16 17:24:44 <MohammadAG51> meh
Jun 16 17:24:47 <alterego> pexi: Well, you obviously don't read much ....
Jun 16 17:24:48 <Venemo> Dassu: yes, so it seems
Jun 16 17:24:51 <Dassu> this could be used to simulate multitouch as no one is capable of pushing the screen on two points simoultenously
Jun 16 17:24:54 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 17:24:55 <sivang> alterego: I think black makes you look thinner :)
Jun 16 17:25:00 <Gadgetoid_iPad> i am tempted by the dell streak now, as nobody in their right mind would buy one
Jun 16 17:25:08 <alterego> sivang: you didn't get the white one? :P
Jun 16 17:25:16 <MohammadAG51> Gadgetoid_iPad, yeah, now that you know that, I should probably tell you you were never born
Jun 16 17:25:17 <Dassu> simple vector calculus could provide two points
Jun 16 17:25:25 <MohammadAG51> you're just static electricity
Jun 16 17:25:28 <pexi> alterego, ..but i still prefer printing over ipad :)
Jun 16 17:25:29 <sivang> alterego: I'd never touch this microkernel message passing crap!
Jun 16 17:25:29 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 16 17:25:30 <sivang> :-)
Jun 16 17:25:34 <Gadgetoid_iPad> but the Pandora should eternally satisfy my desire to have a gadget nobody else does (or one nobody else wants)
Jun 16 17:25:40 <Dassu> however building interface solely on that would be a bitch thing to do
Jun 16 17:25:56 <DocScrutinizer> Dassu: age old idea that never worked
Jun 16 17:25:59 <GAN900> alterego, dunno, hardware's pretty nice.
Jun 16 17:26:06 <GAN900> Just the software is crippled.
Jun 16 17:26:06 <alterego> Gadgetoid_iPad: I'm suprised you're not using a Nokia 770 then :P
Jun 16 17:26:10 <MohammadAG51> Gadgetoid_iPad, who buys stuff cause a lot/few users have it?
Jun 16 17:26:26 <alterego> GAN900: hardware looks pretty, still lacks certain things I'd want, like, well, USB ports for one :P
Jun 16 17:26:29 <Dassu> DocScrutinizer: :( why didnt it work?
Jun 16 17:26:30 <sivang> N900 enables me to not carry around my notebook and still be as online as I could ever be. iPhone does not enable this.
Jun 16 17:26:53 <sivang> Gadgetoid_iPad: what's pandora?
Jun 16 17:26:55 <Gadgetoid_iPad> n900 enabled me to constantly accidentally hang up callers
Jun 16 17:26:57 <alterego> sivang: agreed, the past 6 days I was without my laptop, I did everything on my N900 including some hacking :)
Jun 16 17:27:13 * MohammadAG51 reaches for the red button when he gets a call
Jun 16 17:27:18 <MohammadAG51> it's soo tempting
Jun 16 17:27:21 <alterego> sivang: it kind of reaffirmed my love for the tablets, especially those that have a 3G modem :)
Jun 16 17:27:42 <MohammadAG51> i really like the N900
Jun 16 17:27:49 <MohammadAG51> expected much less when i bought it
Jun 16 17:27:54 <sivang> alterego: oh yeah! that is so nice. My local Orange operators are crying everytime I tell them I use the N900 for that :)
Jun 16 17:27:59 <MohammadAG51> such as problems with switching from 3G to wifi
Jun 16 17:28:05 <alterego> MohammadAG51: I've felt the same about all of the tablets I got.
Jun 16 17:28:09 <alterego> Except the 770
Jun 16 17:28:22 <sivang> alterego: they wanted to sell me a dedicated USB dongle so badlt, with a different data plan! the poor sales representative...
Jun 16 17:28:24 <MohammadAG51> sivang, lol called orange IL today, the guy said it's an epic device
Jun 16 17:28:26 <Gadgetoid_iPad> amazing, i am sitting in sunlight and can see the ipad screen!
Jun 16 17:28:30 <alterego> I hyped that up about right, but the N800, N810, and N900 have all exceeded my expectations in beauty and use.
Jun 16 17:28:30 <sivang> MohammadAG51: HAHA
Jun 16 17:28:46 <Gadgetoid_iPad> i loved the n810, but was somewhat lacking for connectivity
Jun 16 17:28:49 <sivang> MohammadAG51: I also managed to get a 60NIS per month 20GB plan
Jun 16 17:29:00 <sivang> MohammadAG51: tell them a friend of yours got that and you want it as well
Jun 16 17:29:02 <sivang> MohammadAG51: :-)
Jun 16 17:29:03 <Gadgetoid_iPad> i want an n810 sized n900 damnit!
Jun 16 17:29:12 <MohammadAG51> wait what?
Jun 16 17:29:23 <alterego> Heh
Jun 16 17:29:25 <MohammadAG51> IL?
Jun 16 17:29:27 <sivang> MohammadAG51: so I pay 60nis a month, and get 20GB
Jun 16 17:29:31 <MohammadAG51> IL?
Jun 16 17:29:32 <alterego> I kind of look at the N810 and it feels like a bit of a toy.
Jun 16 17:29:34 <sivang> MohammadAG51: yes!
Jun 16 17:29:36 <alterego> Looks and feels ..
Jun 16 17:29:38 <MohammadAG51> How?!
Jun 16 17:29:41 <Gadgetoid_iPad> complete with side-talkin'
Jun 16 17:29:42 <alterego> I still love it though
Jun 16 17:30:29 <sivang> MohammadAG51: they screwed me over so much, and I complained, mentioning I have a couple devices, being a forum nokia champion and that I use the connection and ceullar network for distributed work , had them mention inthe stupid Amdocs billing and vantive system my complains, and after 2 months of fighting, I got this plan
Jun 16 17:30:54 <sivang> MohammadAG51: Once a representative cursed me while I was worrying about a lost sim
Jun 16 17:31:00 <alterego> You're lucky, I'm about to get stitched ..
Jun 16 17:31:03 <sivang> MohammadAG51: he was so reluctant to give service...
Jun 16 17:31:35 <sivang> MohammadAG51: you call them and tell them your friend got that, and you want it also. find some kind of a mishap they did (quite easy)
Jun 16 17:31:37 <MohammadAG51> Cursed you? Sue!
Jun 16 17:31:55 <sivang> MohammadAG51: nahh, don't have the nerves for Israeli court. it sucks bigtime and justice does not prevail.
Jun 16 17:32:05 <MohammadAG51> meh, I'll go down to 30MBs for the time, going away for a month
Jun 16 17:32:23 <sivang> MohammadAG51: when you come back, try to get it. if I got it, you can as well
Jun 16 17:32:51 <MohammadAG51> or they'll raise your bill and I'll stay on the same plan xD
Jun 16 17:33:01 <sivang> MohammadAG51: if they do, I quit.
Jun 16 17:33:17 <MohammadAG51> heh
Jun 16 17:33:26 <sivang> MohammadAG51: I don't have an obligatory plan. I threatened to live them, the time after he cursed me and so they gave me this so I will not leave.
Jun 16 17:33:26 <MohammadAG51> anyways
Jun 16 17:33:29 <sivang> MohammadAG51: :)
Jun 16 17:33:31 <MohammadAG51> who uses 20GB :P
Jun 16 17:33:43 <shorter> how do you have vibrate on only for texts and not calls?
Jun 16 17:33:55 <MohammadAG51> you don't, I guess :P
Jun 16 17:33:57 <Gadgetoid_iPad> arr ipad chargey time, n900 here i come
Jun 16 17:34:03 <sivang> MohammadAG51: I just have it online all the time, it is quite nice, and on the stupid train that takes ages to go from Haifa to TLV/South it is a life saver.
Jun 16 17:34:04 <shorter> ouch, I want my old lame phone's functionality
Jun 16 17:34:33 <MohammadAG51> sivang, I'm on 5GBs, and I only use less than 1GB
Jun 16 17:34:34 <sivang> MohammadAG51: also allows me to test lots of features and specifically multiple events arriving on phones.
Jun 16 17:34:46 <MohammadAG51> sadly it goes from 150 to 5000MBs, which is stupid
Jun 16 17:35:00 <sivang> MohammadAG51: I use skype alot on that, so now phone bills are very low :-)
Jun 16 17:35:03 <sivang> MohammadAG51: true
Jun 16 17:35:10 <sivang> MohammadAG51: the whole pricing scheme in .IL is screwed.
Jun 16 17:35:17 <MohammadAG51> still, you won't use 20GBs
Jun 16 17:35:33 <MohammadAG51> - 'pricing scheme'
Jun 16 17:35:35 <luke-jr> MohammadAG51: why not?
Jun 16 17:35:38 <sivang> MohammadAG51: I won't true., but sometimes I'm away and I use it for Gigs of downloads for a couple of days
Jun 16 17:35:48 <sivang> MohammadAG51: I'm never offline
Jun 16 17:35:52 <MohammadAG51> same
Jun 16 17:36:03 <sivang> MohammadAG51: hack, I have youtube be my playlist out of channels on the N900
Jun 16 17:36:04 <MohammadAG51> That wouldn't take 10MBs
Jun 16 17:36:15 <sivang> MohammadAG51: while on the road :)
Jun 16 17:36:17 <Gadgetoid> ahhhh
Jun 16 17:36:36 <luke-jr> 5 GB is patheticly little
Jun 16 17:36:36 <Gadgetoid> look maw, multitasking!
Jun 16 17:36:36 <MohammadAG51> and tbh, 3G is slow here
Jun 16 17:36:44 <luke-jr> I'd use more than 5 GB with dialup
Jun 16 17:36:45 <sivang> Gadgetoid: exacrltY!
Jun 16 17:36:53 <sivang> yes guys, 3G is very slow
Jun 16 17:37:12 * luke-jr wouldn't know, as there's no 3G here
Jun 16 17:37:20 <Gadgetoid> that said, backgrounder on the ipad is basically the same thing
Jun 16 17:37:34 <sivang> Gadgetoid: I show this to iphoners, that my music on the go is actually youtube and they...well...they say it is pretty
Jun 16 17:37:37 <sivang> :-)
Jun 16 17:37:49 <sivang> I should blog about this. Such a great experience.
Jun 16 17:38:32 <sivang> and I do this while reading emails, online on IRC through SSH, chatting through telepathy and skyping if bandwidth allows.
Jun 16 17:38:46 <Gadgetoid> playing youtube videos in the car to the stereo via fm is pretty neat
Jun 16 17:38:46 <sivang> I think I'm inlove with my N900
Jun 16 17:39:04 <sivang> Gadgetoid: it is, although I don't have a car.
Jun 16 17:39:21 <Gadgetoid> although the fm transmitter doesn't do audio quality many favours
Jun 16 17:39:45 <sivang> Gadgetoid: pretty is the iphone, I mean, they lack arguments and revert back to "the iphone is so pinky and pretty!"
Jun 16 17:39:54 <MohammadAG51> I don't have a license :)
Jun 16 17:40:24 <Gadgetoid> i would like both an iphone and an n900
Jun 16 17:41:06 * DocScrutinizer makes a pink pony stampede run over iPhone
Jun 16 17:41:19 <sivang> anyway people, gotta go back to my couchdb using python monitoring and session mirroring. back alter.
Jun 16 17:41:23 <Gadgetoid> iphone with rainbows!
Jun 16 17:41:23 <sivang> later
Jun 16 17:41:57 <MohammadAG51> cya
Jun 16 17:42:09 <sivang> cheers MohammadAG51
Jun 16 17:42:37 * MohammadAG51 sees DocScrutinizer's stampede using iPhones
Jun 16 17:42:43 <Gadgetoid> i wish i had a midget to wipe my ass
Jun 16 17:44:04 <sivang> Gadgetoid: I wish that girl I met last thursday would call me. I missed a TSG working group meeting for that.
Jun 16 17:44:29 <sivang> or was it community apps? hmmm
Jun 16 17:45:20 <Gadgetoid> sivang: call her and leave hundreds of creepy answerphone messages
Jun 16 17:45:26 <Gadgetoid> girls totally dig that
Jun 16 17:45:30 <sivang> hehe
Jun 16 17:45:45 <SpeedEvil> Apple is employing honeytraps to distract key developers!
Jun 16 17:46:06 <Gadgetoid> i wish i hadn't taken my antiglare screen protector off in favour of a normal one
Jun 16 17:46:20 <alterego> Wow, sftp really fucks with the device :)
Jun 16 17:46:43 <DocScrutinizer2> uh?
Jun 16 17:46:51 <Gadgetoid> SpeedEvil... i didn't know winnie the pooh was a programmer
Jun 16 17:47:00 <alterego> Grinds it to a halt
Jun 16 17:47:23 <SpeedEvil> Gadgetoid: Yeah - there are lots of pooh programmers out htere.
Jun 16 17:47:26 <DocScrutinizer2> depends on what you do, I guess
Jun 16 17:47:29 <SpeedEvil> Or some very similar word.
Jun 16 17:47:49 <Gadgetoid> i know... when it comes to application programming, I am one of them!
Jun 16 17:48:20 <DocScrutinizer2> alterego: sftp TO the device from e.g konqueror works like a charm and isn't that slow - no way next to a grinding halt
Jun 16 17:48:37 <Gadgetoid> although I still want to get my heid round objective c and crank out some crappy ipad apps
Jun 16 17:48:51 <alterego> DocScrutinizer2: try using something that obviously uses the flash, like conversations whilst you're doing it.
Jun 16 17:49:02 <alterego> DocScrutinizer2: were you using usb networking or wifi?
Jun 16 17:49:09 <DocScrutinizer2> wifi
Jun 16 17:49:12 <alterego> Anyhow, bbiab
Jun 16 17:49:16 <alterego> Oh, I might try wifi then.
Jun 16 17:50:55 <DocScrutinizer2> if memory bus bandwidth to the flash is used up with storing sftp data, I well can see how device is coming to a grinding halt for everything else trying to access storage
Jun 16 17:52:28 * RST38h mms
Jun 16 17:54:33 <FIQ> ui-fonts - Fonts for the User Intefrace.
Jun 16 17:54:36 <FIQ> nice spelling
Jun 16 17:54:55 <DrGrov> Any themes in the repositories?
Jun 16 17:54:55 <E0x> sh*t happen
Jun 16 17:55:09 <MohammadAG51> shit happens*
Jun 16 17:55:15 <Gadgetoid> fracepalm!
Jun 16 17:55:26 <MohammadAG51> headdesk!
Jun 16 17:55:35 <DocScrutinizer2> why don't I get a single word of the last 6 lines?
Jun 16 17:55:40 <Gadgetoid> gentlemen, witnes the birth of a meme
Jun 16 17:56:10 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, you're using an old dictionary
Jun 16 17:56:18 <DocScrutinizer2> obviously
Jun 16 17:56:32 * MohammadAG51 offers DocScrutinizer2 an upgrade
Jun 16 17:56:52 <DocScrutinizer2> peanut butter
Jun 16 17:58:10 <jacekowski> i don't get it as well
Jun 16 17:58:15 <jacekowski> it's not proper english
Jun 16 17:58:20 <jacekowski> it's not even american english
Jun 16 18:03:09 <ZogG> even texrat thinks that nokia is going mad =)
Jun 16 18:03:39 <MohammadAG51> ZogG, do you pay
Jun 16 18:03:47 <MohammadAG51> for streaming?
Jun 16 18:03:53 <MohammadAG51> damn hildon-desktop
Jun 16 18:03:59 <ZogG> what streaming?
Jun 16 18:04:16 <MohammadAG51> 3G streaming on orange
Jun 16 18:05:32 <ZogG> oh
Jun 16 18:05:39 <ZogG> i have 3g
Jun 16 18:05:43 <ZogG> video 3g
Jun 16 18:05:48 <ZogG> but it's included
Jun 16 18:05:59 <MohammadAG51> Try streaming something on 3g.orange.co.il
Jun 16 18:06:01 <ZogG> anyway we don't have 3g video calls with this stupid phone
Jun 16 18:06:13 <MohammadAG51> ...
Jun 16 18:07:21 <flailingmonkey> 3g video calls don't worry me none. they basically don't exist here in the USA
Jun 16 18:08:03 <ZogG> flailingmonkey stupid USA
Jun 16 18:08:13 <ZogG> MohammadAG51 do not want. f orange
Jun 16 18:08:14 <flailingmonkey> timeless_mbp, ping
Jun 16 18:10:04 <jacekowski> well it's probably less than 5% are using video calls
Jun 16 18:10:11 <jacekowski> and less than 20% made one
Jun 16 18:10:46 <ZogG> but if i have 3g and i have front camera
Jun 16 18:10:53 <Venemo> they're usually quite expensive in Europe
Jun 16 18:10:53 <ZogG> and even if i don't use video call
Jun 16 18:10:58 <ZogG> i want to have this ability
Jun 16 18:11:01 <Venemo> at least, in my country
Jun 16 18:11:01 <Venemo> so noone uses them
Jun 16 18:11:16 <flailingmonkey> the iPhone 4 isnmt going to help matters, since they basically pooped on 3G video calls
Jun 16 18:11:26 <ZogG> all our phone companies switched to 3g calls
Jun 16 18:11:27 <flailingmonkey> now americans will think that is what video calls are
Jun 16 18:11:29 <ZogG> it's the same
Jun 16 18:11:51 <ZogG> ipoop4
Jun 16 18:12:41 <SpeedEvil> Will iphone video chat implement http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-06/chatroulette-plans-genital-scanning-software-block-perverts I wonder
Jun 16 18:12:51 <DocScrutinizer2> cryPhone, whyPhone, spyPhone
Jun 16 18:12:54 <frals> :D
Jun 16 18:14:16 <ZogG> frals are you Nokia employee now?
Jun 16 18:14:26 <SpeedEvil> Or even - http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-features/shooting-modes/face-detection/ allied to the above.
Jun 16 18:14:40 <frals> ZogG: yes
Jun 16 18:14:53 * MohammadAG51 passes the beer around
Jun 16 18:15:03 <ZogG> frals shame on you =) they bought you. mazal tov
Jun 16 18:15:05 <MohammadAG51> congrats frals
Jun 16 18:15:07 <RST38h> ZogG: Texrat has got a history with Nokia
Jun 16 18:15:11 <SpeedEvil> frals: Congrats.
Jun 16 18:15:15 <ZogG> RST38h like?
Jun 16 18:15:25 <ZogG> i mean ion bad or good way?
Jun 16 18:15:25 <RST38h> ZogG: Like...google?
Jun 16 18:15:47 <SpeedEvil> frals: Can you say what you're working on?
Jun 16 18:16:02 <ZogG> SpeedEvil hypnomeego app =)
Jun 16 18:16:04 <MohammadAG51> RX-91
Jun 16 18:16:20 <ZogG> buy meego, buy new phone every 2 months
Jun 16 18:16:41 <RST38h> behold my mighty psx4all opengles driver!
Jun 16 18:16:48 <frals> thanks :)
Jun 16 18:17:30 <SpeedEvil> http://cosmikutensil.com/images/hypnotoad2.gif - wallpaper?
Jun 16 18:18:13 <MohammadAG51> RST38h, riiiight...
Jun 16 18:18:21 <ZogG> don't open the link SpeedEvil sent
Jun 16 18:18:29 <ZogG> you woulnd;t be able to close the page
Jun 16 18:18:42 <E0x> SpeedEvil: Wow what for live wallpaper could nice
Jun 16 18:18:45 * MohammadAG51 just hit X...
Jun 16 18:19:30 <MohammadAG51> morning VDVsx
Jun 16 18:20:03 <RST38h> ZogG: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://demotivation.ru/thumbs/20090811/j6ebp0wefbpp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://demotivation.ru/search.php%3Fqq%3D%25E5%25E1%25E8%2B%25E3%25F3%25F1%25E5%25E9&usg=__tkh79pXhZdNIQEpmWhfQxOTgZAQ=&h=194&w=200&sz=13&hl=en&start=7&sig2=qDVoxvCllzZy8D87MxvfXg&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=UVORAtq5Ms8pJM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25D0%25B3%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B1%25D1%258C%2B%25D1%2583%25D0%25B1%25D0%25B8%25D0
Jun 16 18:20:09 <RST38h> oh shit sorry
Jun 16 18:20:28 <RST38h> ZogG: short URL: http://www.demotivation.ru/6qw2bbb6k7mlpic.html
Jun 16 18:20:49 <VDVsx> MohammadAG51, hey
Jun 16 18:20:57 * VDVsx moos at RST38h :P
Jun 16 18:21:13 <RST38h> VDVsx: moo indeed
Jun 16 18:22:21 <DrIDK> Where can I find screen specification size of maemo ? For example, the top horizontal menu, height = ?
Jun 16 18:23:46 <MohammadAG51> 60 I think
Jun 16 18:24:52 <eitama> Good Evening folks.
Jun 16 18:25:59 <eitama> Either i am on mute, or people just don't like to chat on IRC.
Jun 16 18:26:06 <eitama> ):
Jun 16 18:26:28 <_llll_> people dont like content-free chat on irc
Jun 16 18:26:38 <Surfa> some people
Jun 16 18:26:39 <flailingmonkey> they are all mesmerized by the hypnotoad
Jun 16 18:27:02 <eitama> I see, well I need help with Qt on N900, Anyone here fancy giving me a hand?
Jun 16 18:27:18 <flailingmonkey> RST38h, so thats what you meant by getting PowerVR working
Jun 16 18:27:26 <lovelyboy> hi, i want to install libgles2-sgx-img-dev in scratchbox
Jun 16 18:27:45 <flailingmonkey> eitama, you might also want to try #qt-maemo
Jun 16 18:27:52 <lovelyboy> but when i typed  fakeroot apt-get install libgles2-sgx-img-dev
Jun 16 18:27:58 <eitama> I am also there, no one is answering me there as well ):
Jun 16 18:27:58 <lovelyboy> it failed
Jun 16 18:28:23 <DocScrutinizer2> ~ask
Jun 16 18:28:23 <infobot> Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
Jun 16 18:29:05 <lovelyboy> somebody knows why>
Jun 16 18:29:23 <lovelyboy> plz
Jun 16 18:29:29 <eitama> I have a QPushButton created at runtime, and added to a QGridLayout
Jun 16 18:29:44 <eitama> If i put it's size policy to expand on bboth vertical and horizontal
Jun 16 18:29:48 <eitama> the button gets chopped
Jun 16 18:30:04 <eitama> if i put a button with the designer, it looks good
Jun 16 18:30:30 <eitama> The code I am using is :
Jun 16 18:30:30 <eitama> QPushButton *myButton = new QPushButton();
Jun 16 18:30:31 <eitama>     myButton->setMaximumSize(100000,100000);
Jun 16 18:30:31 <eitama>     myButton->sizePolicy().setVerticalPolicy(QSizePolicy::Expanding);
Jun 16 18:30:31 <eitama>     myButton->sizePolicy().setHorizontalPolicy(QSizePolicy::Expanding);
Jun 16 18:30:34 <eitama> What am i doing wrong?
Jun 16 18:31:09 <DocScrutinizer2> is max size supposed to be that weird number?
Jun 16 18:31:16 <eitama> 16....
Jun 16 18:31:20 <eitama> yeah
Jun 16 18:31:24 <eitama> that the max maxNumber
Jun 16 18:31:54 <DocScrutinizer2> I'd try with 10000 though
Jun 16 18:32:02 <DocScrutinizer2> just a guess
Jun 16 18:32:26 <eitama> afaik it's constarained by the QGridLayout
Jun 16 18:32:31 <eitama> So it shouldn't matter
Jun 16 18:32:31 <eitama> but
Jun 16 18:32:34 <eitama> I am trying as we speak
Jun 16 18:33:15 <eitama> Actually the 1st button is added ok, the 2nd one makes everything mess up
Jun 16 18:35:46 <th3hate> Is there a way to modifiy the Wifi chip inside N900? like change the signal strength, power-saving, etc?
Jun 16 18:36:03 <eitama> You have some configuration in the Settings
Jun 16 18:36:22 <eitama> 10mW or 100mW and some levels of power saving.
Jun 16 18:36:26 <eitama> per Connection.
Jun 16 18:36:31 <DocScrutinizer2> nope
Jun 16 18:36:43 <DocScrutinizer2> isn't per connection afaik
Jun 16 18:36:52 <th3hate> Where can i find wifi settings?
Jun 16 18:36:54 <eitama> You reach it after choosing a connection
Jun 16 18:37:04 <eitama> Open the app menu > Settings > internet connections
Jun 16 18:37:10 <eitama> Click connections
Jun 16 18:37:14 <eitama> Click a connection
Jun 16 18:37:20 <eitama> press next till you get an advanced button
Jun 16 18:37:21 <MohammadAG51> yeah, it's global for all connections
Jun 16 18:37:31 <eitama> press it
Jun 16 18:37:34 <eitama> go to the 3rd tab
Jun 16 18:37:34 <MohammadAG51> a UI enhancement is filed as a bug on bugzilla
Jun 16 18:37:40 <eitama> Aha
Jun 16 18:37:59 <th3hate> thanks eitama
Jun 16 18:38:07 <eitama> np
Jun 16 18:38:47 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: I wonder how far your button is supposed to expand
Jun 16 18:39:00 <MohammadAG51> infobot, ping
Jun 16 18:39:01 <infobot> ~pong
Jun 16 18:39:18 <eitama> if it's the only button at a given moment, it's supposed to fill the entire QGridLayout
Jun 16 18:39:21 <DocScrutinizer2> ~pong MohammadAG51
Jun 16 18:39:22 <infobot> MohammadAG51: PONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 16 18:39:24 <eitama> I want the buttons to be as big as they can
Jun 16 18:39:34 <MohammadAG51> heh
Jun 16 18:39:34 <flailingmonkey> the 10mw vs 100mw settings should not be changed
Jun 16 18:39:45 <SpeedEvil> generally no
Jun 16 18:39:52 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, I switched to 3G then wifi again, and I'm still connected
Jun 16 18:39:56 <SpeedEvil> It's not usually a large power draw
Jun 16 18:40:03 <MohammadAG51> static local and internet IP ftw
Jun 16 18:40:13 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: I seem to remember MohammadAG51 ran into some arbitrary max size for buttons
Jun 16 18:40:24 <flailingmonkey> and apparently does not improve battery life
Jun 16 18:40:36 <MohammadAG51> theming problems, not actual button drawing
Jun 16 18:40:51 <eitama> The 1st button I add looks ok, it's only when the 2nd 3rd etc comes
Jun 16 18:41:00 <eitama> it suddenly looks like I have double the buttons
Jun 16 18:41:08 <eitama> Like the are being chopped in the middle
Jun 16 18:41:09 * MohammadAG51 pings w00t_
Jun 16 18:41:18 <MohammadAG51> oh
Jun 16 18:41:22 <MohammadAG51> that's a theming problem
Jun 16 18:41:32 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: when the first button takes up all the space, then where is the 2nd supposed to live?
Jun 16 18:41:37 <eitama> How do I overcome it?
Jun 16 18:41:39 <MohammadAG51> the documented 105 doesn't work for me
Jun 16 18:41:48 <MohammadAG51> make the button smaller
Jun 16 18:41:49 <MohammadAG51> sec
Jun 16 18:42:01 <eitama> When adding the 2nd button the whole thing is supposed to be resized
Jun 16 18:42:12 <eitama> so that now button1 takes all the height
Jun 16 18:42:15 <eitama> but half the width
Jun 16 18:42:17 <MohammadAG51> use a size 70 button
Jun 16 18:42:19 <eitama> and same for the 2nd
Jun 16 18:42:27 <eitama> size 70 in height?
Jun 16 18:42:56 <MohammadAG51> yes, vertical height :)
Jun 16 18:43:03 <eitama> Hmmmm
Jun 16 18:43:16 <eitama> mobile hotspot Start button is huge
Jun 16 18:43:19 * MohammadAG51 too much of a smartass to say width
Jun 16 18:43:20 <eitama> How did he do that?
Jun 16 18:43:20 <DocScrutinizer2> we've seen similar issues
Jun 16 18:43:22 <eitama> How did he do that?
Jun 16 18:43:31 <MohammadAG51> check the source :)
Jun 16 18:43:33 <flailingmonkey> ~lame flailingmonkey
Jun 16 18:43:34 <infobot> Ugh, flailingmonkey's aura of lame is affecting me!
Jun 16 18:43:35 <eitama> Maybe it's not Qt
Jun 16 18:43:49 <MohammadAG51> or he uses a custom image
Jun 16 18:43:58 <MohammadAG51> hermes has a large button too
Jun 16 18:44:02 * MohammadAG51 checks the code
Jun 16 18:44:07 <MohammadAG51> (that's gtk though)
Jun 16 18:44:08 <eitama> Whats hermes? (:
Jun 16 18:44:11 <eitama> oh
Jun 16 18:45:09 <DocScrutinizer2> I think the image for button is not supposed to scale up
Jun 16 18:45:53 <eitama> but 1 button works well (:
Jun 16 18:46:00 <eitama> that doesn't add up
Jun 16 18:46:31 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: not really, as first button just resizes to infinite, and you don't see any border. No?
Jun 16 18:49:40 <MohammadAG51>       layout = HildonMainScreenLayout(offset = 0.8, container = self)
Jun 16 18:49:45 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: and I guess as soon as you add 2nd button, both look weird
Jun 16 18:49:50 <MohammadAG51>     layout.add_button('Retrieve', _("Get contacts' missing info"))
Jun 16 18:49:58 <MohammadAG51> cba to fix indentations
Jun 16 18:50:02 <MohammadAG51> that's what hermes uses
Jun 16 18:50:23 <eitama> @Doc you are right
Jun 16 18:50:34 <eitama> @Moh That C++ GTK code?
Jun 16 18:50:37 <eitama> thats*
Jun 16 18:50:56 <MohammadAG51> yes
Jun 16 18:50:59 <MohammadAG51> <DocScrutinizer2> I think the image for button is not supposed to scale up
Jun 16 18:51:25 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: please don't use @, please try what's the benefit of <tab>
Jun 16 18:51:27 <MohammadAG51> it is supposed to (gtk on ubuntu for example), but doesn't on hildon
Jun 16 18:51:52 <DocScrutinizer2> MohammadAG51: bug! :-))
Jun 16 18:52:03 <DocScrutinizer2> though actually makes some sense
Jun 16 18:52:06 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, more like fscked up feature
Jun 16 18:52:19 <DocScrutinizer2> you wouldn't want a pixeled image
Jun 16 18:52:35 <MohammadAG51> it should scale properly
Jun 16 18:52:51 <MohammadAG51> no need to use an image
Jun 16 18:52:54 <DocScrutinizer2> somebody thought 70 is large enough, when they added the templates
Jun 16 18:53:02 <MohammadAG51> but i guess users would complain it's not "pretty"
Jun 16 18:53:23 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, the documentation says 105 is thumbsized, but it doesn't work
Jun 16 18:53:23 <eitama> 1 button : http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/eitama/Screenshot-20100616-215026.png
Jun 16 18:53:39 * flailingmonkey did not realize there was tab completion of nicks, is such an IRC newb
Jun 16 18:53:41 <eitama> 2 buttons : http://s880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/eitama/?action=view&current=Screenshot-20100616-215031.png
Jun 16 18:53:52 <MohammadAG51> 012?
Jun 16 18:54:06 * MohammadAG51 checks hostname
Jun 16 18:54:13 <MohammadAG51> OMG, yellowbook?
Jun 16 18:54:34 <eitama> lol what?
Jun 16 18:54:39 <eitama> whats a yellow book?
Jun 16 18:55:03 <eitama> 012 is the shamefully known israeli internet provider (:
Jun 16 18:55:07 <MohammadAG51> numbers to dial
Jun 16 18:55:08 <eitama> those are my contacts
Jun 16 18:55:12 <MohammadAG51> oh
Jun 16 18:55:20 <MohammadAG51> thought it had all service numbers in IL
Jun 16 18:55:31 <MohammadAG51> hmm
Jun 16 18:55:37 <MohammadAG51> that's not the same problem I had
Jun 16 18:55:42 <eitama> I am trying to write an application that will allow dialing to people with max 4 clicks
Jun 16 18:55:58 <eitama> The idea is :
Jun 16 18:56:01 <eitama> I scan all the contacts
Jun 16 18:56:10 <eitama> and add buttons to where you saw the buttons in the screenshot
Jun 16 18:56:12 <DocScrutinizer2> MohammadAG51: actually I thought it is
Jun 16 18:56:23 <eitama> only for letters that actually exist at index 0 of a contact
Jun 16 18:56:28 <eitama> after pressing 1 letter
Jun 16 18:56:32 <eitama> I do it all over again for index 1
Jun 16 18:56:36 <DocScrutinizer2> that's exactly not sizing but duplicating some background image
Jun 16 18:56:40 <eitama> and the list on the right gets filtered
Jun 16 18:57:08 <MohammadAG51> yes
Jun 16 18:57:23 <eitama> It's odd that it doesn't happen with 1 buttons don't you think?
Jun 16 18:57:26 <MohammadAG51> eitama, use the default theme and the 1 button app
Jun 16 18:57:35 <MohammadAG51> yeah, I suspect the theme has it
Jun 16 18:57:39 <MohammadAG51> for some reason
Jun 16 18:57:49 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: for one button you got no border
Jun 16 18:58:24 <eitama> How do i get it to expand and fill the QGridLayout nicely then? ):
Jun 16 18:58:37 <MohammadAG51> http://i49.tinypic.com/1j4ttu.jpg
Jun 16 18:58:42 <DocScrutinizer2> use custom image, as mohammad suggested
Jun 16 18:59:24 <eitama> MohammadAG: What did you mean 1 button app?
Jun 16 18:59:24 * MohammadAG51 has to say that noobmonk3y suggested that to him
Jun 16 18:59:33 <MohammadAG51> the app with 1 button :)
Jun 16 18:59:49 <eitama> ah lol
Jun 16 18:59:54 <eitama> but i need more buttons (:
Jun 16 19:00:45 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: look at http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/eitama/Screenshot-20100616-215026.png , no rounded corners
Jun 16 19:00:47 <MohammadAG51> of course you do :P
Jun 16 19:02:58 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: find the .png or whatever that defines the round corner shape (and background? prolly not), and resize that to 800*480. Then use that instead of default for button bitmap or background or whatever it's called
Jun 16 19:03:48 <DocScrutinizer2> I'd guess that will work lige expected then
Jun 16 19:03:54 <DocScrutinizer2> like
Jun 16 19:04:14 <MohammadAG51> /usr/share/themes is where you should look I guess
Jun 16 19:04:42 <lcuk> BBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Jun 16 19:04:51 <lcuk> oh crap, wrong chan :p
Jun 16 19:04:53 <DocScrutinizer2> fsckng indexer. One time you'd really need it, it fails epically :-P
Jun 16 19:06:20 <eitama> hmmmm
Jun 16 19:06:32 <eitama> *prowling the files*
Jun 16 19:07:05 <lcuk> eitama, how often will it rebuild the list?
Jun 16 19:07:45 <flailingmonkey> DocScrutinizer2: you mean there actually is a usecase for trackerd? :P
Jun 16 19:08:31 <lcuk> flailingmonkey, try the image browser without thumbnailing :P
Jun 16 19:08:42 <MohammadAG51> grr, why can't i answer yes to all for fsck
Jun 16 19:08:57 <eitama> lcuk everytime the application starts, it will load cached contacts from file, and in the background, check vs phone memory
Jun 16 19:09:07 <eitama> as the Qt Mobility api has like 3 seconds lag atm
Jun 16 19:09:12 <lcuk> eitama, how many contacts have you got?
Jun 16 19:09:12 <eitama> so i can't do it without caching
Jun 16 19:09:36 <eitama> and currently it's limited to English only, cause QtMobility has problems with unicode.. ):
Jun 16 19:09:44 <lcuk> o_O
Jun 16 19:09:57 <lcuk> i thought only liqbase had that problem :D
Jun 16 19:10:31 <MohammadAG51> hahaha
Jun 16 19:11:17 <eitama> No it's crap!
Jun 16 19:11:18 <alterego> what's the link to the package testing queue?
Jun 16 19:11:50 <eitama> I think I have done somthing so stupid in my garage page. I have demoted myslef to senior developer, and now I don't have admin access to my project lol.
Jun 16 19:12:11 <lcuk> you plonker
Jun 16 19:12:44 <MohammadAG51> http://maemo.org/packages alterego, click user packages (2nd link afaik)
Jun 16 19:12:56 <alterego> hahah
Jun 16 19:12:58 <flailingmonkey> rofl, thats classic
Jun 16 19:13:10 <eitama> Feel such an idiot
Jun 16 19:13:17 <alterego> so who wants to test my package? :P
Jun 16 19:13:17 <flailingmonkey> lcuk, thumnails don't need to have a database of all files
Jun 16 19:13:21 <eitama> I can't find how to contact them so they can fix it
Jun 16 19:13:28 <Venemo> eitama:don't worry, just write an e-mail to the garage admins
Jun 16 19:13:30 <MohammadAG51> who fancies holding the enter key for 3 hours (maybe less)
Jun 16 19:13:42 <eitama> Venemo i spent like 2 hours looking for the e-mail address (:
Jun 16 19:13:44 <eitama> can't find it
Jun 16 19:13:45 <alterego> I'm on 4/5 at the moment! Need more meat!
Jun 16 19:13:52 <alterego> 4/10 ...
Jun 16 19:13:58 <flailingmonkey> a thumbnails should only need to be generated when a file is created or changes.
Jun 16 19:14:07 <lcuk> flailingmonkey, only one example, but having the thumbs ahead of time is nice
Jun 16 19:14:09 <eitama> they even say in the initial approve mail : "Enjoy the system, and please tell others about garage. Let us know
Jun 16 19:14:10 <eitama> if there is anything we can do to help you."
Jun 16 19:14:20 <eitama> but no e-mail
Jun 16 19:15:19 <MohammadAG51> the only thing I hate about Qt is the documentation
Jun 16 19:15:28 <MohammadAG51> i'll stick to gtk, and Fremantle
Jun 16 19:15:48 <flailingmonkey> need to put hildon-gtk on meego is all
Jun 16 19:15:59 <Venemo> why, Qt is well-documented?
Jun 16 19:16:07 <Venemo> at least I thought so
Jun 16 19:16:15 <lcuk> eitama, bottom of garage page:  feedback:   mailto:garage@maemo.org?subject=garage%20feedback
Jun 16 19:16:16 <eitama> I kinda like the Qt documentation, but it does make you google sometimes
Jun 16 19:16:32 <eitama> I pressed the feedback link a few times (: nothing happened
Jun 16 19:16:38 <eitama> i didn't think about inspecting the link (:
Jun 16 19:16:40 <eitama> Thanks!!!
Jun 16 19:16:48 <DocScrutinizer2> eitama: ping X-Fade
Jun 16 19:16:54 <alterego> how long is the testing queue expiration? and does it get auto bumped back to devel or into Extras?
Jun 16 19:17:06 <eitama> Who is he?
Jun 16 19:17:07 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer2, you already pinged him :P
Jun 16 19:17:26 <MohammadAG51> alterego, it doesn't expire
Jun 16 19:17:27 <eitama> ping X-Fade
Jun 16 19:17:30 <DocScrutinizer2> X-Fade: garage 'admin'
Jun 16 19:17:34 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer2, X-Fade is indeed person, but he might be busy so its simpler to try find official contact address so he can cope without needing to jump on irc :p
Jun 16 19:17:54 <MohammadAG51> 'admin'?
Jun 16 19:17:58 <MohammadAG51> why the 's lol
Jun 16 19:19:58 <eitama> E-mailed that address. thanks lcuk
Jun 16 19:20:38 <eitama> MohammadAG51, why do you have 2 users connected? (:
Jun 16 19:20:51 <MohammadAG51> cause I'm awesome
Jun 16 19:21:06 <MohammadAG51> one's my PC, the other is my RX-51 (N900) :P
Jun 16 19:21:26 <eitama> Aha
Jun 16 19:21:26 <eitama> !
Jun 16 19:22:00 <MohammadAG51> hmm
Jun 16 19:22:10 <MohammadAG51> lcuk, you know sh stuff right? :)
Jun 16 19:22:18 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG51: RX-51 always sounds cool
Jun 16 19:22:43 <MohammadAG51> how do I echo a 1000 returns (enter key presses / line breaks)?
Jun 16 19:22:45 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG51: very military :P
Jun 16 19:22:52 <MohammadAG51> hahahaha
Jun 16 19:22:56 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, i dunno#
Jun 16 19:23:00 <MohammadAG51> Area 51
Jun 16 19:23:06 <MohammadAG51> :(
Jun 16 19:23:21 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG51: in what context? shell?
Jun 16 19:23:28 <MohammadAG51> yeah
Jun 16 19:24:08 <flailingmonkey> you could pipe input from a file, with a 1000 newlines in it
Jun 16 19:24:44 <eitama> \n won't work?
Jun 16 19:24:47 <flailingmonkey> something like: ./program < filename
Jun 16 19:24:49 <eitama> with a loop
Jun 16 19:24:59 <MohammadAG51> idk how to make a loop :)
Jun 16 19:25:03 <MohammadAG51> hmm
Jun 16 19:25:07 <eitama> You are talking about bash?
Jun 16 19:25:10 * MohammadAG51 checks DocScrutinizer2's vboost
Jun 16 19:25:23 <MohammadAG51> bash, ash (busybox), whatever :)
Jun 16 19:25:23 <flailingmonkey> N900 has ash, but bash can be installed
Jun 16 19:25:29 <SpeedEvil> It's not ash
Jun 16 19:25:31 <MohammadAG51> already have it
Jun 16 19:25:34 <SpeedEvil> it's busybox shell
Jun 16 19:25:35 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 16 19:25:44 <MohammadAG51> BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso30+0m5) built-in shell (ash)
Jun 16 19:25:47 <eitama> #!/bin/bash
Jun 16 19:25:47 <eitama> for i in {1..5}
Jun 16 19:25:47 <eitama> do
Jun 16 19:25:47 <eitama>    echo "Welcome $i times"
Jun 16 19:25:47 <eitama> done
Jun 16 19:25:54 <eitama> instead of that echo thingy
Jun 16 19:26:05 <eitama> use what flailingmonkey
Jun 16 19:26:07 <eitama> suggested
Jun 16 19:26:12 <eitama> with a file that contains a newline
Jun 16 19:26:21 * MohammadAG51 tries that
Jun 16 19:26:26 <eitama> and change 5 to 1000 (:
Jun 16 19:26:34 <flailingmonkey> you can also just run echo, should output a new line by default
Jun 16 19:26:51 <eitama> or if have tclsh installed
Jun 16 19:26:57 <eitama> you could start it
Jun 16 19:26:58 <eitama> and type
Jun 16 19:27:07 <eitama> puts ""
Jun 16 19:27:09 <eitama> inside a while
Jun 16 19:27:13 <eitama> after openeding the file (:
Jun 16 19:27:16 <eitama> opeining
Jun 16 19:27:17 <eitama> but
Jun 16 19:27:23 <eitama> I am the only one in the world using tclsh
Jun 16 19:27:24 <eitama> so
Jun 16 19:27:28 <eitama> you won't have it
Jun 16 19:28:44 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, i think \n should work as eitama says but certainly is 100x better than installing lots of random stuff :P
Jun 16 19:29:03 <DocScrutinizer2> man yes
Jun 16 19:30:13 <lcuk> echo -e "hello\nworld"
Jun 16 19:30:34 <DocScrutinizer2> for ( i=0; i<1000; i++); do echo; done
Jun 16 19:30:43 <DrGrov> What is new for today guys?
Jun 16 19:30:46 <DrGrov> and girls?
Jun 16 19:31:07 <DocScrutinizer2> aah, and before I forget
Jun 16 19:31:08 <vldcnst> DrGrov: the pizza place added a new sauce.
Jun 16 19:31:15 <DocScrutinizer2> I *HATE* BUSYBOX
Jun 16 19:31:23 <flailingmonkey> yes, echo -e would work. also use -n so it doesn't add an extra newline
Jun 16 19:32:20 <MohammadAG51> grr
Jun 16 19:32:23 <MohammadAG51> didn't work
Jun 16 19:32:24 <MohammadAG51> e2fsck: need terminal for interactive repairs
Jun 16 19:32:24 <flailingmonkey> the thing is that you still need to redirect those newlines to the input of your program I presume
Jun 16 19:32:32 <flailingmonkey> ah
Jun 16 19:32:51 <MohammadAG51> :/
Jun 16 19:32:59 <MohammadAG51> yeah, a pipe does that
Jun 16 19:33:43 <flailingmonkey> well, you can either make a file with the newlines, or put that shell script into an executable file and redirect either one
Jun 16 19:34:07 <MohammadAG51> hmm
Jun 16 19:34:35 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, DocScrutinizer2 therefore gave you the thing you need
Jun 16 19:35:17 <MohammadAG51> lcuk, I echod the new lines, but fsck is being a smartass
Jun 16 19:37:49 <flailingmonkey> doing: fsck < name_of_file should work
Jun 16 19:38:02 <MohammadAG51>  echo `cat ./test321` | echo "/sbin/fsck.ext3 /dev/mmcblk1p1" | /bin/sh didn't work...
Jun 16 19:38:39 <SpeedEvil> Err
Jun 16 19:38:44 <SpeedEvil> why not use the flag?
Jun 16 19:38:48 <MohammadAG51> -a?
Jun 16 19:38:53 <MohammadAG51> it's too inconsistent
Jun 16 19:39:21 <SpeedEvil>       -p     Automatically  repair  ("preen")  the  file  system.   This
Jun 16 19:39:21 <SpeedEvil>               option  will cause e2fsck to automatically fix any filesys-
Jun 16 19:39:21 <SpeedEvil>               tem problems that can be safely fixed without human  inter-
Jun 16 19:39:21 <SpeedEvil>               vention.
Jun 16 19:40:04 <MohammadAG51> /dev/mmcblk1p1: UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck MANUALLY.
Jun 16 19:40:09 <SpeedEvil> e2fsck -y - if you just want to run in 'damn the torpedos' mode
Jun 16 19:40:28 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG51: your attempt doesn't work
Jun 16 19:40:58 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG51: the second echo would ignore the input you piped to it
Jun 16 19:41:31 <MohammadAG51> meh
Jun 16 19:41:33 <MohammadAG51> -y worked
Jun 16 19:41:41 <flailingmonkey> good :-)
Jun 16 19:41:42 <MohammadAG51> didn't see that in the man page
Jun 16 19:41:46 <MohammadAG51> ty SpeedEvil
Jun 16 19:42:40 <MohammadAG51> why is it even fixing lost+found
Jun 16 19:42:56 <MohammadAG51> e2fsck: aborted :(
Jun 16 19:51:24 <eitama> Where should I put the PNG file?
Jun 16 19:51:33 <eitama> at the same direcory as the CPP?
Jun 16 19:51:53 * MohammadAG51 dumps them in /usr/share/pixmaps
Jun 16 19:52:23 <eitama> so this is good? :
Jun 16 19:52:28 <eitama> QPixmap* pixmap = new QPixmap("back.png");
Jun 16 19:52:34 <MohammadAG51> I guess
Jun 16 19:52:35 * eitama sdf
Jun 16 19:52:41 <MohammadAG51> sdf?
Jun 16 19:52:51 * eitama was trying to findout how to do those emotes
Jun 16 19:53:10 * eitama is lucky to be a former wow addict, se he got it on the 1st attempt
Jun 16 19:53:17 <MohammadAG51> lolwut mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 failed: Invalid argument
Jun 16 19:53:36 <MohammadAG51> heh
Jun 16 19:55:02 <eitama> pixmaps doesn't work.
Jun 16 19:55:45 <lcuk> also avoid using a generic name like "back.png" if you are using a shared folder
Jun 16 19:56:02 <InformatiQ> whois X-Fade
Jun 16 19:56:08 <eitama> it's just development (:
Jun 16 19:56:17 <eitama> i'll change it later obviously!
Jun 16 19:56:29 <eitama> thanks for the tip thought!
Jun 16 19:56:32 <InformatiQ> oops missed the /
Jun 16 19:56:39 <flailingmonkey> eitama: things like that get forgotten, best not to let yourself have the chance to forget :p
Jun 16 19:56:48 <lcuk> eitama, why have to faff later renaming :P
Jun 16 19:56:53 <lcuk> get it right once and forget about it
Jun 16 19:57:07 <MohammadAG51> indeed
Jun 16 19:57:17 <MohammadAG51> i think i ref*cked my microsd
Jun 16 19:57:37 <MohammadAG51> oh and e2fsck segfauled again
Jun 16 19:57:51 <lcuk> MohammadAG51, sounds like it
Jun 16 19:57:53 <flailingmonkey> fsck asked "want me to mess this thing up? N/y" and you auto-yes'd
Jun 16 19:58:10 <MohammadAG51> :)
Jun 16 19:58:35 <MohammadAG51> oh well, you know what that means
Jun 16 20:00:58 <flailingmonkey> A device with a name like RX-51 should either fly or kill
Jun 16 20:01:18 <flailingmonkey> preferably both
Jun 16 20:01:20 <eitama> MohammadAG
Jun 16 20:01:47 <eitama> I put a fill path to the PNG, now it's "working" i can see the background correct, but the button text is gone (:
Jun 16 20:02:05 <MohammadAG> lol
Jun 16 20:02:20 <eitama> facepalm
Jun 16 20:02:25 <eitama> and vise versa
Jun 16 20:04:10 <MohammadAG> good thing I had backups of the Ubuntu chroot :D
Jun 16 20:04:42 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG51: you're working at Ubuntu on N900?
Jun 16 20:05:17 <MohammadAG> It works for me already, but my device is in R&D mode so idk how the watchdog would ***** about it
Jun 16 20:05:43 <MohammadAG> oh and the touchscreen doesn't work, but I suspect there's a step I missed
Jun 16 20:06:48 <flailingmonkey> sounds like you need some more N900s
Jun 16 20:06:50 <flailingmonkey> :p
Jun 16 20:07:33 * flailingmonkey does voiceover: N900, so good you want TWO!
Jun 16 20:08:06 <MohammadAG> LOL no, one's enough for me xD
Jun 16 20:08:32 <tuliobaars> hey
Jun 16 20:08:39 <MohammadAG> the tar.gz is 867MBs, I might upload it, some day, or year
Jun 16 20:08:56 <tuliobaars> is possible to run normal debian apps on turbo easy debian?
Jun 16 20:09:07 <MohammadAG> turbo?
Jun 16 20:09:34 <tuliobaars> yeah
Jun 16 20:09:45 <tuliobaars> the easy-deb-chroot
Jun 16 20:10:12 <MohammadAG> I know what easy debian is, what did you mean by turbo
Jun 16 20:10:22 <tuliobaars> and to increase te size of the debian.ext3 image??? is possible?
Jun 16 20:10:33 <tuliobaars> is a version of the deb-chroot
Jun 16 20:11:33 <DocScrutinizer2> [2010-06-16 22:00:58] <flailingmonkey> A device with a name like RX-51 should either fly or kill
Jun 16 20:11:51 * DocScrutinizer2 trows a RX-51 at flailingmonkey ... "see it fly!"
Jun 16 20:12:00 <tuliobaars> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/easy-deb-chroot/
Jun 16 20:12:04 <DocScrutinizer2> feel the kill on impact
Jun 16 20:12:17 * MohammadAG opens the battery cover and a can of red bull
Jun 16 20:12:23 <MohammadAG> I hope those ads weren't lying about it
Jun 16 20:12:38 * tuliobaars Burps!
Jun 16 20:13:06 * tuliobaars Fight of my N810 with a stick
Jun 16 20:13:35 <MohammadAG> lol lcuk someone already made a vuvuzella(?) app
Jun 16 20:13:42 <tuliobaars> hey! how to increase the debian image?
Jun 16 20:14:02 <lcuk> yeah MohammadAG
Jun 16 20:14:10 <DocScrutinizer2> MohammadAG: you are definitely too mad
Jun 16 20:14:23 * lcuk is busy watching SA lose o_O
Jun 16 20:14:36 <MohammadAG> 0-2 xD
Jun 16 20:14:38 <flailingmonkey> i suggested that trolls be forced to use t.m.o. using: http://vuvuzela-time.co.uk/talk.maemo.org
Jun 16 20:15:01 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer2, yeah, nothing new about that :P
Jun 16 20:15:05 <MohammadAG> ~factinfo MohammadAG
Jun 16 20:15:05 <infobot> mohammadag -- created by DocScrutinizer <~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Tue May 25 19:15:21 2010 (22 days); it has been requested 5 times, last by DocScrutinizer2, 8h 55m 15s ago.
Jun 16 20:15:13 <MohammadAG> gotcha!
Jun 16 20:15:39 <flailingmonkey> ~MohammadAG
Jun 16 20:15:46 <infobot> i heard mohammadag is special
Jun 16 20:15:47 * Stskeeps yans
Jun 16 20:15:48 <Stskeeps> +w
Jun 16 20:15:49 * MohammadAG should've included closed crap in his Ubuntu image
Jun 16 20:19:01 <flailingmonkey> about time for finns to head to bed
Jun 16 20:19:17 <MohammadAG> it's only 11:19
Jun 16 20:19:20 <Stskeeps> or people in finnish timezones
Jun 16 20:19:21 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 16 20:19:31 <MohammadAG> what's that supposed to mean :P
Jun 16 20:19:50 <DocScrutinizer2> so eitama had no hit on mod-o-fied button image?
Jun 16 20:20:12 <GAN900> Silly Europeans
Jun 16 20:21:19 <DocScrutinizer2> poor Americans
Jun 16 20:21:47 <eitama> MohammadAG51!
Jun 16 20:21:57 <eitama> I have found a post on tmo about the texture problem
Jun 16 20:21:58 <eitama> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=718136#post718136
Jun 16 20:22:13 * MohammadAG kills the other him
Jun 16 20:22:20 <eitama> The dude says he found a solution to set the style to gtk
Jun 16 20:22:29 <eitama> do you know how to do that? cause the dude didn't elaborate
Jun 16 20:22:46 <SpeedEvil> ask him
Jun 16 20:22:54 <SpeedEvil> or her
Jun 16 20:22:56 <eitama> He is not online, I posted on the forum
Jun 16 20:22:57 <eitama> but
Jun 16 20:23:02 <eitama> I want answers now (:
Jun 16 20:23:10 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jun 16 20:23:27 <eitama> Iv'e been working on this application from the moment I woke up
Jun 16 20:23:32 <eitama> and barely got any progress
Jun 16 20:23:34 <eitama> I want to finish it!
Jun 16 20:23:43 <eitama> So much work to be done
Jun 16 20:23:56 <eitama> Then i need to find out How to package, and how to upload to extras-devel from windows
Jun 16 20:24:03 <Venemo> eitama: don't worry, I sympathize with you
Jun 16 20:24:07 <eitama> hehe
Jun 16 20:24:09 <eitama> thx
Jun 16 20:24:14 <Venemo> eitama: I'm also in a similar situation
Jun 16 20:24:27 <Venemo> although alterego helped me very much on IRC
Jun 16 20:24:38 <Venemo> I now have a theoretically working solution
Jun 16 20:24:47 <MohammadAG> aspidites visits the forums a lot, you'll get an answer soon I guess
Jun 16 20:24:50 <Venemo> and already implemented about half of it
Jun 16 20:25:47 <MohammadAG> goal xD
Jun 16 20:28:11 <t_s_o> shit, watching this just makes me pissed about how nokia short changed the N900: http://www.fonearena.com/blog/18831/exclusive-video-nokia-n8-operated-via-bluetooth-keyboard-and-mouse.html
Jun 16 20:29:01 <flailingmonkey> it comes down to Maemo Devices team vs. Symbian team
Jun 16 20:29:17 <MohammadAG> Not really
Jun 16 20:29:25 <MohammadAG> the N900 supports BT mice and keyboards
Jun 16 20:29:39 <MohammadAG> you'll have to fix xorg.conf, which should be easy if you read the man page
Jun 16 20:30:01 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG: in terms of N900 being short changed. not that as a reason that N900 can't do it
Jun 16 20:30:15 <flailingmonkey> but as reason it wasn't supported out of box
Jun 16 20:30:22 <t_s_o> yea, but you should not need to, as earlier maemo devices had the keyboard support going already, so the N900 was a step backwards
Jun 16 20:30:34 <MohammadAG> err, keyboard support is spot on
Jun 16 20:30:53 <t_s_o> and then comes the N8 and basically shows off tricks that earlier maemo could have done, and that nokia didnt put into N900
Jun 16 20:31:00 <MohammadAG> and BT keyboards have worked since the Nokia 6680
Jun 16 20:31:03 <MohammadAG> or 6630 actually
Jun 16 20:31:31 <MohammadAG> wow, Symbian^3 has the same crappy UI as Symbian^1
Jun 16 20:31:37 <flailingmonkey> what bt keyboard and mouse do you use MohammadAG
Jun 16 20:31:56 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 20:32:04 <MohammadAG> Nokia SU-8W, and a USB mouse, when USB works :)
Jun 16 20:32:39 <MohammadAG> Symbian has a mouse arrow now?
Jun 16 20:33:32 <MohammadAG> time to try Ubuntu again
Jun 16 20:34:16 <GAN900> t_s_o, the business division is filled with dinosaurs.
Jun 16 20:34:33 <t_s_o> i wonder if with open sourcing symbian, some of the higher ups at nokia no longer see a need for maemo. And that may be one reason for its merging with moblin
Jun 16 20:34:49 <GAN900> I just wish Maemo had been under any other company than Nokia.
Jun 16 20:35:08 <GAN900> The higher-ups are all clearly short-sighted fools.
Jun 16 20:35:22 <MohammadAG> t_s_o, I for one won't go back to Symbian, the core OS kinda got old
Jun 16 20:35:26 <GAN900> It's amazing that Maemo has gotten to where it is despite them.
Jun 16 20:35:31 <MohammadAG> even if it had the iPhone UI on it
Jun 16 20:36:00 <t_s_o> GAN900: i suspect its the same as with every other company thats been around for a while. The focus becomes short time gains to grow the stock price, rather then long term strategic goals
Jun 16 20:36:15 <t_s_o> in that sense, going forward with symbian allows the most bang for the least risk
Jun 16 20:36:47 <GAN900> Or long-term goals that are 10 years out of date.
Jun 16 20:37:03 <GAN900> A sick part of me hopes it kills them.
Jun 16 20:37:04 <GAN900> Fools.
Jun 16 20:38:28 <MohammadAG> ARGH, touchscreen still not working!
Jun 16 20:38:32 <t_s_o> i dont think it will, as i see nokia doing smart moves in other markets, like how they are setting up a mobile bank of sorts
Jun 16 20:38:45 * MohammadAG nukes Stskeeps 
Jun 16 20:38:54 <flailingmonkey> you have many teams, and frankly I just don't think maemo has ever been on the radar of the larger company strategy
Jun 16 20:39:04 <flailingmonkey> s/you/Nokia/
Jun 16 20:39:04 <infobot> flailingmonkey meant: Nokia have many teams, and frankly I just don't think maemo has ever been on the radar of the larger company strategy
Jun 16 20:40:41 <t_s_o> it may have been, when it first got fired up, as a look at how nokia could attempt to leverage open source
Jun 16 20:40:44 <flailingmonkey> MohammadAG: doesn't bt keyboard support require copying layouts from scratchbox or some such
Jun 16 20:40:55 <MohammadAG> not really
Jun 16 20:40:58 <Venemo> good night guys&girls
Jun 16 20:41:11 <MohammadAG> would make it more exciting though
Jun 16 20:41:14 <MohammadAG> Night
Jun 16 20:41:16 <t_s_o> then they took what they learned for that and applied to a more known thing, symbian, and put maemo to one side as a hedged bet in case open source symbian implodes
Jun 16 20:41:50 * MohammadAG can see why qwerty12 left
Jun 16 20:42:37 <t_s_o> huh?
Jun 16 20:43:15 <DocScrutinizer2> burrp
Jun 16 20:43:23 <DocScrutinizer2> isn't Qt open source?
Jun 16 20:43:56 <MohammadAG> Qt itself? yeah
Jun 16 20:43:59 <MohammadAG> I guess
Jun 16 20:44:11 <MohammadAG> apps created with it can be commercial -> non open source
Jun 16 20:44:21 <DocScrutinizer2> so probably the part zooming the button image is as well
Jun 16 20:44:48 <MohammadAG> afaik that's not a Qt problem, but a hildon one
Jun 16 20:45:03 <DocScrutinizer2> errr
Jun 16 20:46:23 <DocScrutinizer2> QPushButton doesn't sound like a hildon object
Jun 16 20:47:23 <Bashvi> what is better on n900, xchat or irrsi?
Jun 16 20:47:32 <DocScrutinizer2> so the root problem is QPushButton doesn't do the resizing in a sane manner, and the hildon dependency is the hildon theme has a "too small" image or whatever, that is just 70 high
Jun 16 20:47:38 <DocScrutinizer2> xchat
Jun 16 20:47:49 <MohammadAG> 105, but that doesn't work
Jun 16 20:48:12 <flailingmonkey> irssi is my preference
Jun 16 20:48:23 <DocScrutinizer2> it actually *has* a FILE for 105?
Jun 16 20:49:06 <flailingmonkey> but I had to grab the foxmask theme, as the default theme expects black backgrounds
Jun 16 20:49:41 <MohammadAG> http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtkwidget.c#line11041
Jun 16 20:50:48 <flailingmonkey> does anyone know how to flush the image cache for apps that gets displayed as they load? like Settings and Application Manager
Jun 16 20:51:21 <flailingmonkey> they look rather crappy at the moment, so its obvious when it is still loading
Jun 16 20:52:55 <lcuk> flailingmonkey, a mo
Jun 16 20:53:34 <DocScrutinizer2> MohammadAG: HILDON_HEIGHT_THUMB is rather worthless
Jun 16 20:53:45 <DocScrutinizer2> on itself
Jun 16 20:53:58 <DocScrutinizer2> we need QPushButton
Jun 16 20:54:10 <DocScrutinizer2> or QPushButton()
Jun 16 20:54:26 <MohammadAG> flailingmonkey, clear /home/user/.cache/launch/*
Jun 16 20:54:38 <MohammadAG> rm /home/user/.cache/launch/* even
Jun 16 20:54:52 <flailingmonkey> thanks
Jun 16 20:55:53 <flailingmonkey> when does it capture those launch previews? hopefully not while displaying the previews :p
Jun 16 20:56:05 <DocScrutinizer2> lol
Jun 16 20:56:11 <MohammadAG> depends on the code I guess
Jun 16 20:56:11 <flailingmonkey> which would cause artifacts over time
Jun 16 20:56:11 <lcuk> thats the one MohammadAG
Jun 16 20:56:21 <MohammadAG> lcuk, I got it from fmms_gui.py XD
Jun 16 20:57:07 <DocScrutinizer2> probably after all the constructors have done their job
Jun 16 20:57:41 <MohammadAG> the clock app takes it when you close it
Jun 16 20:57:45 <MohammadAG> hence a slight delay
Jun 16 20:58:34 <DocScrutinizer2> mhm
Jun 16 20:58:48 <flailingmonkey> they really need to be lower compression. clock app is good example
Jun 16 20:59:03 <DocScrutinizer2> so they should get refreshed each time you do a start&end cycle to the app
Jun 16 20:59:35 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer2, they get refreshed when you change the theme or clear the directory
Jun 16 20:59:48 <DocScrutinizer2> o.O
Jun 16 21:00:04 <DocScrutinizer2> for the clock that's rather nonsense, no?
Jun 16 21:00:10 <flailingmonkey> its a good idea, but they should really look exactly like what is loading.
Jun 16 21:00:19 <DocScrutinizer2> well, for the clock everything is nonsense
Jun 16 21:00:21 <MohammadAG> Nope, the time isn't part of the screenshot
Jun 16 21:00:39 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer2, start the clock app, it starts without the time showing
Jun 16 21:00:53 <MohammadAG> and the background is a low quality image
Jun 16 21:01:18 <DocScrutinizer2> anyway
Jun 16 21:01:24 <DocScrutinizer2> o/
Jun 16 21:01:51 <MohammadAG> :|
Jun 16 21:02:30 <MohammadAG> how do I convert a png to a pvr?
Jun 16 21:02:36 <MohammadAG> want to test something
Jun 16 21:02:58 <DocScrutinizer2> imgmagic
Jun 16 21:03:45 <DocScrutinizer2> ImageMagick (1)
Jun 16 21:03:52 <shorter> anyone here use Tmo prepaid sidekick plan?
Jun 16 21:04:05 <MohammadAG> tmo is an operator?
Jun 16 21:05:24 <GAN900> T-Mobile
Jun 16 21:05:47 <eitama> MohammadAG it's so close to be considered working!
Jun 16 21:06:05 <DocScrutinizer2> hear hear
Jun 16 21:06:26 <DocScrutinizer2> still a workaround I guess
Jun 16 21:06:34 <lcuk> MohammadAG, imagemagik might have a convertor
Jun 16 21:06:38 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer2, no imagemagic, the binary's called convert
Jun 16 21:07:01 * MohammadAG opens up the man page
Jun 16 21:07:03 <DocScrutinizer2> err hm?
Jun 16 21:07:41 <MohammadAG> the iPhone uses PVRs too, meh
Jun 16 21:07:57 <eitama> http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/eitama/Screenshot-20100617-000606.png
Jun 16 21:08:10 <eitama> any idea how to make the 1st row the same size as all other buttons?
Jun 16 21:08:27 <eitama> for some reason the 2nd row doesn't take half of the space
Jun 16 21:08:35 <lcuk> thats quite awesome as it is eitama
Jun 16 21:08:38 <lcuk> :D
Jun 16 21:08:43 <eitama> I don't like it like that (:
Jun 16 21:08:45 <eitama> besides
Jun 16 21:08:53 <eitama> part of the plan is to be able to control it later on
Jun 16 21:09:05 <eitama> if you have 20 contacts starting with the letter G
Jun 16 21:09:10 <MohammadAG> add an invisible row? :)
Jun 16 21:09:10 <eitama> G should be bigger then the rest
Jun 16 21:09:17 <eitama> no ):
Jun 16 21:09:19 <eitama> gridlayout!
Jun 16 21:09:21 <eitama> i should need to
Jun 16 21:09:23 <eitama> shouoldnt
Jun 16 21:09:26 <eitama> shouldn't
Jun 16 21:09:31 <eitama> keyboard is rebeling against me
Jun 16 21:09:36 <lcuk> dynamics like that are difficult to control!
Jun 16 21:09:43 <lcuk> you may need to go custom
Jun 16 21:09:48 <lcuk> and manage 26 floating elements
Jun 16 21:10:04 <eitama> there won't nesseserly be 26
Jun 16 21:10:07 <eitama> might be 10
Jun 16 21:10:08 <eitama> might be 30
Jun 16 21:10:14 <eitama> depends on the contact list
Jun 16 21:10:17 <lcuk> sure
Jun 16 21:10:27 <eitama> i have to solve this with grid
Jun 16 21:10:33 <MohammadAG> hmm, just saw this in an apt-cache search query, on Ubuntu, tablet-encode - video converter for Nokia Internet Tablets
Jun 16 21:10:33 <lcuk> why
Jun 16 21:10:42 <lcuk> btw, how can there be 30 letters in the alphabet
Jun 16 21:10:47 <lcuk> are you inventing new ones?
Jun 16 21:10:49 <eitama> cause I want it to be portable to symbian meego etc etc
Jun 16 21:10:53 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 21:11:01 <eitama> someday it will support multilanguage
Jun 16 21:11:02 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 21:11:27 <eitama> tbh i only removed none english now cause it's looks giberish
Jun 16 21:13:25 * lcuk vanishes to do some coding
Jun 16 21:15:16 * eitama suggests multitasking
Jun 16 21:15:37 <MohammadAG> lol
Jun 16 21:15:49 <MohammadAG> you don't want to see how he multitasks :P
Jun 16 21:16:16 <lcuk> eitama, MohammadAG is right ;)
Jun 16 21:16:25 <luke-jr> lcuk: contacts might not start with letters
Jun 16 21:16:27 * MohammadAG still has the link
Jun 16 21:16:29 <eitama> Well see fragments of code here? and "/me" in the code?
Jun 16 21:16:30 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 21:16:52 <luke-jr> lcuk: for example, IIRC Bobby Tables surname really begins with a semicolon
Jun 16 21:17:13 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 21:17:14 <MohammadAG> you're making his xchat blink, he won't like that
Jun 16 21:17:18 <lcuk> MohammadAG, which link o_O
Jun 16 21:17:26 <lcuk> ive not gone yet
Jun 16 21:17:32 <MohammadAG> lcuk, battlestation one
Jun 16 21:17:34 <MohammadAG> :D
Jun 16 21:17:37 <lcuk> and when im properly gone vnc is closed so i dont see you :P
Jun 16 21:17:38 <lcuk> lol
Jun 16 21:17:45 <MohammadAG> http://liqbase.net/liq.battlestation.20100508_002.jpg <-- this one :D
Jun 16 21:18:08 <MohammadAG> btw, I had to check logs, you've mentioned it here once so... I guess there's nothing to hide about it :P
Jun 16 21:19:40 <MohammadAG> ffs I so hate tracker getting corrupt!
Jun 16 21:19:41 <lcuk> pretty much nothing on liqbase is hidden anyway
Jun 16 21:21:02 <eitama> Hahahaaa!!!!
Jun 16 21:21:04 <eitama> It's working
Jun 16 21:21:05 <eitama> it's working
Jun 16 21:21:08 <eitama> YEAH
Jun 16 21:21:22 <eitama> lcuk
Jun 16 21:21:26 <eitama> i told you i'll make it work
Jun 16 21:21:29 <eitama> without manually managing them
Jun 16 21:21:33 <eitama> screenshots in a bit
Jun 16 21:21:58 <lcuk> never doubted it, now make them dynamically respond to changing sizes as you add/remove contacts :P
Jun 16 21:22:27 <MohammadAG> Hmm, reminds me of the Symbian^1 contacts app :)
Jun 16 21:22:43 <eitama> 1st i want to make them appear dynamically by scanning the contacts, so far i was clicking "dial" to add them
Jun 16 21:22:44 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 21:25:01 * lcuk >>>>>
Jun 16 21:25:01 <eitama> http://s880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/eitama/Success/
Jun 16 21:27:06 <MohammadAG> heh, beats the Symbian one hands down :D
Jun 16 21:28:53 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 21:29:34 <nas_> very nice !
Jun 16 21:31:29 <pupnik> python --- sigh
Jun 16 21:32:21 <eitama> I hate python.
Jun 16 21:32:25 <eitama> Rather write in c++
Jun 16 21:32:33 <eitama> But no doubt the best is C#
Jun 16 21:32:34 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 21:41:36 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Jun 16 21:51:15 <Dotblank2> after upgrading to pr 1.2 my tracker does seem to work
Jun 16 21:51:35 <Dotblank2> I think its because I need to reset the tracker
Jun 16 21:51:39 <Dotblank2> how do I do that?
Jun 16 21:51:41 <MohammadAG> tracker-processes --hard-reset
Jun 16 21:51:49 <MohammadAG> <-- faster than a bot
Jun 16 21:52:04 <Dotblank2> Thanks!
Jun 16 21:52:17 <MohammadAG> yw :)
Jun 16 21:53:40 <MohammadAG> infobot, trackerreset
Jun 16 21:53:40 <Dotblank2> well that instantly fixed my problem
Jun 16 21:53:41 <infobot> hmm... trackerreset is "tracker-processes --hard-reset" in Terminal
Jun 16 21:53:50 <MohammadAG> :D
Jun 16 21:54:01 <vldcnst> bot had 1s response time
Jun 16 21:54:13 <MohammadAG> hahaha
Jun 16 22:11:53 <MohammadAG> New game on the ovi store, 5 euros
Jun 16 22:17:21 <pupnik_> http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_chrome_vs_iron.php  Iron: Google Chrome without the spyware
Jun 16 22:17:48 <HtheB> o/
Jun 16 22:17:51 <HtheB> MohammadAG,
Jun 16 22:17:52 <HtheB> u there?
Jun 16 22:18:24 <HtheB> anyone else? :P
Jun 16 22:18:31 <eitama> zen bound?
Jun 16 22:18:45 <eitama> hey HtheB
Jun 16 22:19:05 <HtheB> hi
Jun 16 22:19:06 * eitama Plays with Qt in the background so might be slow to respond
Jun 16 22:19:13 <HtheB> i need some help tomorrow :p
Jun 16 22:19:27 <HtheB> got an exam
Jun 16 22:19:42 <eitama> With what?
Jun 16 22:19:44 <HtheB> I will kinda fail.... so a helping hand is always welcome xD
Jun 16 22:19:45 <HtheB> Java :(
Jun 16 22:19:52 <HtheB> (mostly UML stuff)
Jun 16 22:19:56 <eitama> I know java
Jun 16 22:19:57 <eitama> and
Jun 16 22:19:59 <HtheB> i suck @ java
Jun 16 22:20:03 <eitama> have no idea what UML is
Jun 16 22:20:04 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 22:20:05 <HtheB> totally
Jun 16 22:20:10 <HtheB> UML diagrams
Jun 16 22:20:19 <eitama> UML is a class in java?
Jun 16 22:20:26 <HtheB> unified moddeling language
Jun 16 22:20:29 <HtheB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Modeling_Language
Jun 16 22:20:34 <eitama> Yayks
Jun 16 22:20:42 <HtheB> xD
Jun 16 22:20:48 <zash> Paint as IDE :D
Jun 16 22:20:50 <HtheB> but java is also welcome
Jun 16 22:20:57 <eitama> btw no one can suck @ java
Jun 16 22:21:00 <eitama> it's easier then
Jun 16 22:21:00 <MohammadAG> HtheB, yeah, just purchased the game and it's not downloading lol
Jun 16 22:21:08 <eitama> writing the windows version on the disc you just burned
Jun 16 22:21:22 <eitama> What help do you need with java?
Jun 16 22:21:28 <HtheB> which game?
Jun 16 22:21:37 <eitama> Zen 5 euro bound
Jun 16 22:21:38 <HtheB> eitama,
Jun 16 22:21:41 <MohammadAG> Zen Bound
Jun 16 22:21:44 <HtheB> zen bound is out!?
Jun 16 22:21:47 <HtheB> didnt check ovi lol
Jun 16 22:21:48 <HtheB> but
Jun 16 22:21:59 <MohammadAG> I see how they pulled it off now...
Jun 16 22:22:00 <HtheB> it's some "basic" java stuff
Jun 16 22:22:11 <MohammadAG> Mimetypes to launch app manager instead of asking what to do with it
Jun 16 22:22:34 <eitama> ok so
Jun 16 22:22:39 <eitama> java has garbage collection
Jun 16 22:22:40 <HtheB> eitama, are you here online?
Jun 16 22:22:45 <eitama> no
Jun 16 22:22:47 <eitama> i am offline
Jun 16 22:22:47 <HtheB> tomorrow*
Jun 16 22:22:48 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 22:22:51 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:22:54 <eitama> I might be
Jun 16 22:22:56 <HtheB> hmmm
Jun 16 22:22:58 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 22:23:03 <eitama> you can always e-mail me
Jun 16 22:23:05 <HtheB> exam starts at 10.25 :(
Jun 16 22:23:07 <eitama> i check my mail like 20 times a day
Jun 16 22:23:09 <HtheB> (CET)
Jun 16 22:23:13 <eitama> what the time for you now
Jun 16 22:23:14 <eitama> ?
Jun 16 22:23:19 <HtheB> 0.23
Jun 16 22:23:22 <eitama> 1.23 here
Jun 16 22:23:22 <MohammadAG> ctcp time ftw
Jun 16 22:23:34 <HtheB> so 11.25 over there :p
Jun 16 22:23:42 <HtheB> I can take pictures with my N900
Jun 16 22:23:44 <eitama> there here?
Jun 16 22:23:44 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 22:23:45 <MohammadAG> HtheB, he's the same time zone as me, so 1:23
Jun 16 22:23:48 <HtheB> and sent them directly to you
Jun 16 22:24:01 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:24:02 <HtheB> MohammadAG, if you lik to help me too :D..
Jun 16 22:24:07 <eitama> you mean
Jun 16 22:24:11 <MohammadAG> Java eh?
Jun 16 22:24:11 <eitama> while doing the exam?
Jun 16 22:24:12 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:24:13 <HtheB> yea
Jun 16 22:24:17 <HtheB> eitama, jup :D
Jun 16 22:24:22 * MohammadAG thinks
Jun 16 22:24:29 * MohammadAG tries to remember
Jun 16 22:24:29 <HtheB> i can also stream the questions with Qik
Jun 16 22:24:34 <MohammadAG> Oh yeah, the crappy language!
Jun 16 22:24:34 <eitama> Won't you get caought and kicekd or something?
Jun 16 22:24:36 <MohammadAG> XP
Jun 16 22:24:43 <HtheB> so you can watch again once I streamed the questions
Jun 16 22:24:47 <HtheB> did it last time
Jun 16 22:24:52 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:24:54 <HtheB> the "teachers" are dump
Jun 16 22:24:56 <HtheB> dumb
Jun 16 22:24:58 <eitama> that is truely awesome
Jun 16 22:24:58 <HtheB> xD
Jun 16 22:25:02 <MohammadAG> you do know this channel is logged, since 2005
Jun 16 22:25:02 <eitama> dumb* (:
Jun 16 22:25:04 <eitama> ahm ahm
Jun 16 22:25:12 <MohammadAG> right?
Jun 16 22:25:13 <eitama> since the last time you streamed questions
Jun 16 22:25:26 <MohammadAG> channel logged people!
Jun 16 22:25:34 <HtheB> MohammadAG, so? :p
Jun 16 22:25:38 <HtheB> eitama, yes?
Jun 16 22:25:48 <eitama> Oo
Jun 16 22:25:56 <eitama> I mean it's logged
Jun 16 22:25:58 <MohammadAG> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html
Jun 16 22:26:00 <eitama> since the last time you streamed questions
Jun 16 22:26:11 <MohammadAG> hit end
Jun 16 22:26:13 <HtheB> but that wasn't over here at IRC
Jun 16 22:26:15 <MohammadAG> and you'll see this convo
Jun 16 22:26:30 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:26:35 <MohammadAG> Ovi's downloading scheme sucks, there's no download bar
Jun 16 22:26:51 <MohammadAG> and seriously, microb should use MyDocs not /var/tmp!
Jun 16 22:26:55 <eitama> Logs
Jun 16 22:26:55 <eitama> Thanks to Marius Gedminas we have logs available in chronological order.
Jun 16 22:26:59 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:27:17 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:27:26 <eitama> Anyway to your issue HtheB
Jun 16 22:27:32 <HtheB> yes
Jun 16 22:27:34 <eitama> I use java at work
Jun 16 22:27:37 <HtheB> cool :D
Jun 16 22:27:38 <eitama> to write tests
Jun 16 22:27:42 <eitama> in jsystem environment
Jun 16 22:27:43 <eitama> but
Jun 16 22:27:48 <eitama> I never learned it accademicly
Jun 16 22:27:49 <eitama> so
Jun 16 22:27:50 <HtheB> the exams are in english, so it shouldn't be hard :p
Jun 16 22:27:56 <HtheB> its seriously basic stuff
Jun 16 22:27:56 <eitama> no no
Jun 16 22:27:59 <eitama> thats not the problem
Jun 16 22:28:01 <eitama> just saying
Jun 16 22:28:04 <eitama> you can't rely on me
Jun 16 22:28:09 <eitama> for the Correct answers
Jun 16 22:28:11 <HtheB> better then nothing like me xD
Jun 16 22:28:12 <eitama> as i always google
Jun 16 22:28:24 <HtheB> just google while im doing the test haha
Jun 16 22:28:28 <HtheB> u can reply then :P
Jun 16 22:28:30 <HtheB> I have 100 minutes
Jun 16 22:28:33 <HtheB> for the exam
Jun 16 22:28:33 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:28:42 <eitama> so
Jun 16 22:28:48 <MohammadAG> remember
Jun 16 22:28:48 <eitama> what time exacly the test starts
Jun 16 22:28:49 <eitama> ?
Jun 16 22:28:58 <MohammadAG> you're not helping him by helping him cheat :P
Jun 16 22:29:15 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:29:19 <HtheB> lol
Jun 16 22:29:23 <eitama> If you can't beat them
Jun 16 22:29:24 <eitama> join them
Jun 16 22:29:32 * MohammadAG beats HtheB 
Jun 16 22:29:51 * HtheB revices
Jun 16 22:29:55 * HtheB revives*
Jun 16 22:30:08 <MohammadAG> you better revise
Jun 16 22:30:14 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:30:42 * MohammadAG sets ban on HtheB till 1 PM local time
Jun 16 22:31:04 <DocScrutinizer2> nah, memememememeeeeee
Jun 16 22:31:05 <MohammadAG> Ovi, ovi, ovi, when are you going to learn Nokia-N900:/home/user/MyDocs/.documents/deb files# dpkg -i zenbound_1_0_4_1_armel.deb
Jun 16 22:31:23 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:31:42 <MohammadAG> If anyone's interested in getting a ban, PM me asking for the deb file
Jun 16 22:31:45 <MohammadAG> yes, I'm a grass
Jun 16 22:31:46 <MohammadAG> XD
Jun 16 22:33:15 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:33:20 <MohammadAG> hmm
Jun 16 22:33:25 <eitama> BTW mohammad
Jun 16 22:33:27 <MohammadAG> is /var/tmp needed before /home?
Jun 16 22:33:27 <eitama> where you from?
Jun 16 22:33:40 <MohammadAG> start up your GPS at country level and you'll know
Jun 16 22:34:00 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:34:15 <eitama> city?
Jun 16 22:34:20 <MohammadAG> I asked about 012 for a reason :P
Jun 16 22:34:22 <MohammadAG> Jerusalem
Jun 16 22:34:22 <eitama> if I may ask ofc
Jun 16 22:34:27 <eitama> ahhhh
Jun 16 22:34:29 <eitama> lol
Jun 16 22:34:30 <eitama> !
Jun 16 22:34:45 <MohammadAG> designed for headphones wtf
Jun 16 22:35:08 <eitama> what?
Jun 16 22:35:09 <eitama> is?
Jun 16 22:35:17 <eitama> 012 = crap
Jun 16 22:35:18 <eitama> (:
Jun 16 22:35:19 <MohammadAG> Zen Bound lol
Jun 16 22:35:22 <eitama> ahhh lol
Jun 16 22:35:23 <MohammadAG> I know, I'm on 014
Jun 16 22:35:29 <eitama> wtf is 014
Jun 16 22:35:30 <eitama> ?
Jun 16 22:35:33 <nextime> uhmm
Jun 16 22:35:47 <MohammadAG> Bezeq international
Jun 16 22:35:50 <eitama> ahhh
Jun 16 22:35:52 <nextime> on which web engine is based the default web browser on maemo?
Jun 16 22:35:53 <eitama> is it good?
Jun 16 22:36:02 <MohammadAG> idk, just started it
Jun 16 22:36:03 <eitama> AppleWebKit afaik
Jun 16 22:36:09 <zash> not gecko?
Jun 16 22:36:27 <eitama> don't make me run a tcpdump (;
Jun 16 22:36:57 <MohammadAG> Gecko afaik
Jun 16 22:37:04 <eitama> maybe i am wrong (:
Jun 16 22:37:05 <MohammadAG> AppleWebKit is used on Symbian crap
Jun 16 22:37:08 <eitama> couldn't very much be
Jun 16 22:37:14 <eitama> could*
Jun 16 22:37:45 <GAN900> eitama, it's Gecko. :)
Jun 16 22:38:32 <nextime> anyway
Jun 16 22:38:46 * MohammadAG 1 - 0 eitama 
Jun 16 22:38:49 <nextime> i'm happy to see that it work well on heavy ajaxian web applications
Jun 16 22:39:15 <MohammadAG> well
Jun 16 22:39:25 <HtheB> <nextime> on which web engine is based the default web browser on maemo?
Jun 16 22:39:26 <MohammadAG> the music in Zen bound is epic with headphones
Jun 16 22:39:28 <HtheB> Firefox? :p
Jun 16 22:39:28 <nextime> so, the one on which i'm working will work good also on both android, iphone and maem/meego :D
Jun 16 22:39:31 <MohammadAG> a bit relaxing
Jun 16 22:39:41 <MohammadAG> HtheB, firefox is based on gecko
Jun 16 22:39:42 <MohammadAG> :)
Jun 16 22:39:50 <nextime> HtheB : apparently not, if it is webkit based it isn't gecko like firefox :)
Jun 16 22:39:51 <HtheB> so the answer: Gecjo
Jun 16 22:39:55 <HtheB> so the answer: Gecko*
Jun 16 22:40:19 <HtheB> hmm
Jun 16 22:40:29 <nextime> anyway, the important thing is that it is working even on my qooxdoo comet based app
Jun 16 22:40:30 <MohammadAG> that's not bad  3238  1218 user     R    16756  6.9 40.4 /opt/secretexit/zenbound zenbound
Jun 16 22:40:30 <nextime> :P
Jun 16 22:40:34 <HtheB> I know that they dropped firefox in future release
Jun 16 22:41:37 <MohammadAG> well, no the best game, but still, some progress is good.
Jun 16 22:44:16 * HtheB is going to sleep now
Jun 16 22:44:22 <HtheB> need some rest for the exam xD
Jun 16 22:46:00 <MohammadAG> wow, a lot of users don't know about HID support in fremantle http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56402
Jun 16 22:51:19 <asj> people were all a twitter about the n97 until it came out too
Jun 16 22:51:33 <asj> and I guess for about 2wks afterwards...
Jun 16 22:53:43 <HtheB> happy ending!
Jun 16 22:59:12 <DocScrutinizer2> /kick HtheB
Jun 16 22:59:50 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer2, no, please, if you decide to do that let me do it
Jun 16 22:59:57 <MohammadAG> jk :)
Jun 16 23:03:29 <HtheB> xD
Jun 16 23:03:29 <HtheB> hahahahhaa
Jun 16 23:03:32 <HtheB> HAHAHAHHA
Jun 16 23:03:32 <HtheB> :D
Jun 16 23:03:48 <HtheB> i love #maemo
Jun 16 23:08:37 <opdf2> is there another phone that multitasks like N900?
Jun 16 23:09:03 <pupnik_> no other phone uses maemo5, so no
Jun 16 23:09:06 <opdf2> The only one I can think of is palm pre maybe
Jun 16 23:09:25 <MohammadAG> LOL, Web OS doesn't do proper multitasking afaik
Jun 16 23:09:43 <eitama> My N95 did (l
Jun 16 23:09:45 <eitama> (;
Jun 16 23:09:47 <opdf2> so N900 is only phone that does it properly?
Jun 16 23:09:53 <asj> opdf2: for many years many phones have run 100s of applications just to boot...many phone runs linux so they multitask in the same way...what do you mean
Jun 16 23:10:48 <opdf2> I like the multitasking of N900, where it doesn't close programs automatically like android
Jun 16 23:11:08 <opdf2> and the task manager
Jun 16 23:11:13 <asj> andriod I thought runs all applications in the background to make switching fast
Jun 16 23:12:32 <opdf2> what does 'proper' multitasking?
Jun 16 23:12:37 <opdf2> *is
Jun 16 23:13:01 <pupnik_> i don't know
Jun 16 23:13:32 <pupnik_> others say palm does 'full multitasking'
Jun 16 23:13:33 <asj> symbian certainly does multitasking assuming the phone doesn't run out of ram...better prioritization than maemo too
Jun 16 23:14:25 <opdf2> okay, so N900 is not alone? that is good
Jun 16 23:14:47 <eitama> I was kidding aobut the N95 (:
Jun 16 23:15:21 <MohammadAG> afaik, WebOS removes the process from memory
Jun 16 23:15:23 <MohammadAG> or something
Jun 16 23:15:32 <MohammadAG> iPhone OS 4.0 does that
Jun 16 23:15:59 <DocScrutinizer2> Openmoko Freerunner does proper multitasking
Jun 16 23:16:25 <opdf2> proper means keeping all tasks in memory?
Jun 16 23:16:43 <eitama> proper means
Jun 16 23:16:46 <HtheB> test
Jun 16 23:16:46 <HtheB> 123
Jun 16 23:16:46 <HtheB> 132
Jun 16 23:16:46 <HtheB> >.<
Jun 16 23:16:46 <HtheB> hello
Jun 16 23:16:46 <HtheB> earth to #mameo
Jun 16 23:16:46 <HtheB> do u copy me
Jun 16 23:16:46 <eitama> Keeping the apps running
Jun 16 23:16:47 <HtheB> stupid lag
Jun 16 23:16:49 <DocScrutinizer2> well, it's 'real linux'. so yes
Jun 16 23:16:56 <eitama> giving them CPU time
Jun 16 23:16:56 <eitama> and
Jun 16 23:17:05 <eitama> allowing you to see multiple programs at the same time
Jun 16 23:17:08 <eitama> with live update
Jun 16 23:17:36 <asj> proper doesn't mean all tasks in memory, dynamic paging makes not true of any linux system
Jun 16 23:18:06 <opdf2> so 'proper' multitasking is n900 & freerunner, all else is pseudo multitask?
Jun 16 23:19:06 <asj> opdf2: no
Jun 16 23:24:20 <b-man17> ~seen MohammadAG51
Jun 16 23:24:22 <infobot> mohammadag51 <~MohammadA@62.219.120.20> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 25m 46s ago, saying: 'oh well, you know what that means'.
Jun 16 23:25:26 <MohammadAG> b-man, ?
Jun 16 23:25:39 <b-man> oh, lol
Jun 16 23:26:24 <pigeon> does anyone know if you can set different passwords for imap and smtp for an account with nokia messaging?
Jun 16 23:28:33 <HtheB> happy ending?
Jun 16 23:29:25 <b-man> oh no not again lol
Jun 16 23:29:41 <MohammadAG> that won't end well
Jun 16 23:32:44 <Noma> what's the situation with usb host right now?
Jun 16 23:35:36 <pigeon> is it possible to disable usb charging on the n900?
Jun 16 23:36:10 <SpeedEvil> Noma: Not ready yet
Jun 16 23:36:33 <MohammadAG> Noma, when it's ready you'll see the channel scrolling real quick :P
Jun 16 23:36:40 <Noma> :D
Jun 16 23:37:22 <Noma> what devices have you been able to get to work by now? just storage drives?
Jun 16 23:44:21 <SpeedEvil> Basically, at this point, we're trying to get all devices working consistently.
Jun 16 23:44:34 <MohammadAG> it works 1/10 of the times
Jun 16 23:44:38 <SpeedEvil> At the moment, nothing works very consistently, for a number of poorly understood reasons.
Jun 16 23:44:39 <MohammadAG> I guess
Jun 16 23:44:51 <MohammadAG> 1 being me, 9 being the rest of the 'team'
Jun 16 23:45:43 <jaem> SpeedEvil, is that sentence original?
Jun 16 23:46:15 <jaem> It sounds like something Douglas Adams would write... :P
Jun 16 23:48:21 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 16 23:48:49 * SpeedEvil sighs, and wishes there were an easy way to revert a long list of changes on the wiki.
Jun 16 23:49:08 <crashanddie> oh bollocks, still that same "one cpu doesn't allow multitask" argument?
Jun 16 23:49:13 <jaem> SpeedEvil, vandalism?
Jun 16 23:49:33 <crashanddie> For fuck's sake, people have been doing multitasking for decades (listening and writing), nobody ever annoyed anyone with "they only have one brain"
Jun 16 23:49:56 <SpeedEvil> jaem: Not intentional. Misguided - in my view - maintainance.
Jun 16 23:50:02 <crashanddie> The whole point is that each task only requires one single amount of time to complete, and can be delegated and paused in a way that seamlessly allows for multitasking
Jun 16 23:50:03 <jaem> Ah.
Jun 16 23:50:32 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: for one wikipage there actually is a way
Jun 16 23:50:39 <DocScrutinizer> in history
Jun 16 23:50:53 <jaem> crashanddie, well, one could make the distinction between "multiProcessing" and "multitasking" - the latter generally involving timeslicing, but being somewhat more loosely used.
Jun 16 23:51:09 <jaem> But I agree with what you're saying.
Jun 16 23:51:41 <crashanddie> meh, if I process a signal, I can only process it so many times per second (e.g.: sound being recorded at 44kHz).
Jun 16 23:51:42 <SpeedEvil> Basically - I wrote most of [[Category:N900 Hardware]] - and am the process of going through these pages about weekly, improving them. And someone came along and moved all of them, so I get redlinks when I enter page titles from memory, which consideraly slows me down, and I don't believe the move actually aids anyone.
Jun 16 23:51:49 <crashanddie> though, good point.
Jun 16 23:52:04 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, don't like the discussion? kick ChanServ
Jun 16 23:52:12 * crashanddie kicks ChanServ 
Jun 16 23:52:24 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: ~50 moves
Jun 16 23:52:38 <jaem> crashanddie, I doubt the person who wrote that was being that pedantic, though :P
Jun 16 23:52:45 <pupnik_> multics was what, 1967?
Jun 16 23:53:04 <an0therb0x> how do i play real audio files on the n900
Jun 16 23:53:28 <MohammadAG> Why is Apple against porn <-- this thread has potential
Jun 16 23:53:36 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: undo?
Jun 16 23:53:42 <DocScrutinizer> won't do?
Jun 16 23:53:43 <jaem> an0therb0x, My first though: why would you want to?  My second thought is "probably MPlayer"
Jun 16 23:54:03 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: yeah - I guess.
Jun 16 23:54:24 <jaem> an0therb0x, I don't think it will play RealVideo (at least in the Maemo build), though, but it might do audio
Jun 16 23:55:21 <pupnik_> i highly distrust realaudio
Jun 16 23:56:00 <jaem> pupnik_, I don't blame you... but I figured that would be a less useful answer
Jun 16 23:56:44 <jaem> I just know that on the one occasion I had need to play an RMVB file (or whatever the ext is) on my Nxx0, it played the audio track, but didn't like the video.
Jun 17 00:01:50 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: Do you have that bug ID you filed for the wiki contributions handy?
Jun 17 00:02:34 <DocScrutinizer> not right here
Jun 17 00:02:39 <SpeedEvil> h
Jun 17 00:02:40 <SpeedEvil> l
Jun 17 00:02:44 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Jun 17 00:02:44 <SpeedEvil> k
Jun 17 00:05:10 <DocScrutinizer2> * [10573] [Wiki] Searching for wiki contributions by username yields no results
Jun 17 00:05:57 <DocScrutinizer2> SpeedEvil: ^^^
Jun 17 00:06:24 <DocScrutinizer2> bug 10573
Jun 17 00:06:25 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10573 Searching for wiki contributions by username yields no results
Jun 17 00:07:57 <SpeedEvil> Thanks
Jun 17 00:08:03 <acidjazz> SpeedEvil you need to  http://i.imgur.com/S6LpL.jpg
Jun 17 00:08:04 <DocScrutinizer2> np
Jun 17 00:17:16 <flailingmonkey> i read way too much irc backlog
Jun 17 00:17:22 <flailingmonkey> i read the logs on the web too...
Jun 17 00:17:55 <crashanddie> http://perfectlytimedphotos.com/unmoderated-perfectly-timed-photo/7469-i-feel-pretty-oh-so-prett
Jun 17 00:19:05 <cure`> i just got zen bound and the ar app
Jun 17 00:19:16 <cure`> too bad i dont have a printer at home
Jun 17 00:54:29 <paolo-vaio> xxxxx
Jun 17 00:54:40 <paolo-vaio> qualcuno parla italiano
Jun 17 00:56:34 <paolo-vaio> mi leggete??
Jun 17 00:57:05 <nextime> paolo-vaio : si, ma questo e' un canale in cui e' meglio parlare in inglese essendo non specifico italiano
Jun 17 00:57:34 <paolo-vaio> Ti chiedo scusa
Jun 17 00:57:52 <paolo-vaio> Gentilmente e cortesemente posso chiederti un info??
Jun 17 00:58:25 <nextime> non scusarti con me, io sono italiano e ti capisco, scusati con gli altri che non ci stanno capendo. Please in english if you can, o se non riesci piuttostoin privato
Jun 17 00:59:19 <paolo-vaio> ok
Jun 17 01:23:32 <shorter> how do you see call duration after you hang up?
Jun 17 01:31:39 <shorter> Also, I'm guessing "Dual" means both "3g" and "gsm"
Jun 17 01:35:34 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jun 17 01:35:48 <shorter> any idea about the calling history?
Jun 17 01:35:51 <shorter> duration of callls?
Jun 17 01:35:54 <SpeedEvil> nope.
Jun 17 01:41:24 <mikki-kun> hi... does anybody know here where the wireless passwords of the n900 are stored?
Jun 17 01:41:29 <mikki-kun> i'd need a recovery of one
Jun 17 01:42:09 <SpeedEvil> umm
Jun 17 01:42:20 <SpeedEvil> i would guess somewhere on the flash.
Jun 17 01:42:30 * SpeedEvil should really try to think.
Jun 17 01:42:40 <SpeedEvil> icd does that sort of thing I think.
Jun 17 01:43:03 * SpeedEvil is feeling stupidly demoralised.
Jun 17 01:43:04 * MohammadAG51 wouldn't be suprised if it was stored as plain text
Jun 17 01:43:48 <SpeedEvil> gconf
Jun 17 01:43:49 <SpeedEvil> It is
Jun 17 01:44:02 <b-man> "cat /usr/sbin/docpurge | grep hackers" < LOL
Jun 17 01:44:44 <SpeedEvil> gconftool --dump /system/osso/connectivity/IAP
Jun 17 01:45:29 <b-man> hmm
Jun 17 01:52:51 <mikki-kun> thanks for that :) so yeah, had a char as well wrong all the time on another one... that's why it didn't work ^^
Jun 17 01:53:09 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 17 01:53:17 * SpeedEvil hates that sort of stupid stuff.
Jun 17 01:57:14 <shorter> DocScrutinizer, skype is cheaper than any SIP provider I've found - is this what you expected?
Jun 17 01:59:38 <jacekowski> no way
Jun 17 02:00:55 <jacekowski> http://www.poivy.com/en/index.html
Jun 17 02:01:01 <jacekowski> http://www.voipbuster.com/en/index.html
Jun 17 02:01:05 <jacekowski> http://www.voipcheap.com/en/index.html
Jun 17 02:01:09 <jacekowski> free free and free
Jun 17 02:01:17 <jacekowski> no way you can get cheaper with skype
Jun 17 02:01:39 <SpeedEvil> They could pay you to make calls.
Jun 17 02:02:06 <pwnguin> they have those
Jun 17 02:02:10 <pwnguin> they're call telemarketers
Jun 17 02:02:47 <jacekowski> http://www.voipcheap.com/en/calling-rates.html
Jun 17 02:03:12 <shorter> jacekowski, I'm trying to have allow any phone to call me and me to call any phone (landline -> voip for example)
Jun 17 02:04:06 <jacekowski> then you pay 1 euro for number
Jun 17 02:05:04 <pwnguin> shorter: these days, even voice lines are transmitted digtally, over an internet
Jun 17 02:05:26 <shorter> yeah, what does that mean?
Jun 17 02:05:31 <SpeedEvil> They don't use internet type technologies.
Jun 17 02:05:39 <SpeedEvil> They use pigeons.
Jun 17 02:06:02 <jacekowski> shorter: that when you call somebody
Jun 17 02:06:13 <pwnguin> well, i donno if they use the same lines as tcp/ip internet
Jun 17 02:06:37 <jacekowski> shorter: analog signal that reaches your local exchange is converted to 64kbit data stream
Jun 17 02:06:40 <shorter> basically, I want to 1) transfer my current number to SIP 2) have anyone able to call me 3) be able to call anyone - for cheap
Jun 17 02:06:41 <jacekowski> pwnguin: they do
Jun 17 02:06:54 <pwnguin> but pretty much the only thing left is telephone numbers and routing
Jun 17 02:06:59 <jacekowski> shorter: 1) not going to happen
Jun 17 02:07:22 <jacekowski> shorter: 2 ) phone would have to be constantly online
Jun 17 02:07:30 <pwnguin> some day you'll dial domain names instead of numbers
Jun 17 02:07:47 <shorter> why can't 1 happen?
Jun 17 02:08:03 <jacekowski> there are no voip providers that transfer numbers
Jun 17 02:08:12 <shorter> 2) It should have voicemail, though, and I'll usually be within wifi - if not, 3g
Jun 17 02:08:40 <jacekowski> 2 ) it's illegal to use voip over 3g
Jun 17 02:08:48 <jacekowski> it's just breach of t&c
Jun 17 02:09:11 <shorter> skype does it: http://blogs.skype.com/devzone/2007/06/skype_pro_does_call_transfer.html
Jun 17 02:09:29 <shorter> jacekowski, but people do it anyway, who cares?
Jun 17 02:09:48 <jacekowski> shorter: that's just call forwarding
Jun 17 02:09:52 <jacekowski> shorter: with different name
Jun 17 02:13:13 <jacekowski> shorter: and when your phone decides to roam because of weak signal from cell tower
Jun 17 02:14:08 <jacekowski> shorter: you will probably miss call on voip
Jun 17 02:15:16 <jacekowski> and because gsm is doing paging differently chances of that happening are slim
Jun 17 02:15:41 <shorter> that's okay I guess
Jun 17 02:15:44 <shorter> leave a message
Jun 17 02:16:07 <shorter> chances of what are slim jacekowski
Jun 17 02:16:27 <jacekowski> lost call during handover from one cell to another
Jun 17 02:16:38 <jacekowski> almost like non existient
Jun 17 02:16:54 <shorter> oh, that's okay I guess
Jun 17 02:16:59 <shorter> I'll still have voice service
Jun 17 02:17:04 <shorter> I just don't want to use it much
Jun 17 02:17:25 <jacekowski> why are you doing it anyways
Jun 17 02:17:39 <shorter> because I have prepaid and I want to be in any country and receive a call on the same number
Jun 17 02:17:41 <jacekowski> i mean plans with internet ussualy include shitloads of minutes as well
Jun 17 02:17:48 <shorter> not mine
Jun 17 02:18:01 <jacekowski> so you have free internet on prepaid?
Jun 17 02:18:07 <jacekowski> free unlimited?
Jun 17 02:18:08 <shorter> 1$/day
Jun 17 02:18:16 <jacekowski> with fair usage policy?
Jun 17 02:18:21 <shorter> I haven't read one
Jun 17 02:18:25 <jacekowski> probably yes
Jun 17 02:18:39 <shorter> I feel wahtever I'm doing is fair
Jun 17 02:18:46 <shorter> they advertise as "dataplan unlimited"
Jun 17 02:18:56 <jacekowski> nope
Jun 17 02:19:02 <jacekowski> "dataplan unlimited*"
Jun 17 02:19:07 <jacekowski> * T&C's apply
Jun 17 02:19:14 <shorter> not as if I use 1/100th of the daily data i use via cable internet
Jun 17 02:20:09 <jacekowski> besides, voip over gsm is just adding another layer to it
Jun 17 02:20:37 <jacekowski> i never managed to get decent call quality without really good signal
Jun 17 02:20:44 <jacekowski> 3g signal
Jun 17 02:20:54 <jacekowski> on 2g jitter was just too big
Jun 17 02:21:55 <jacekowski> and QoS on cell towers prioritise voice over data
Jun 17 02:25:45 <shorter> sorry, X froze
Jun 17 02:26:48 <shorter> did you have a good 3g signal - some people have reported good call quality, jacekowski
Jun 17 02:28:15 <asj> I've had good call quality with voip over 3g
Jun 17 02:29:04 <shorter> SEE!
Jun 17 02:29:06 <shorter> heh
Jun 17 02:29:16 <shorter> asj, what voip provider?
Jun 17 02:29:32 <asj> shorter: 2 of them, voip.ms and iinet
Jun 17 02:29:44 <asj> but the telco makes a bigger difference
Jun 17 02:31:06 <asj> strange things happen on Optus, don't know if it's voip only, but after 10 minutes the 3g connection gets weird
Jun 17 02:31:15 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jun 17 02:31:23 <SpeedEvil> I get sub-100ms pings most of the time on 3G here
Jun 17 02:31:23 <SpeedEvil> which would be fine for that
Jun 17 02:31:57 <asj> Telstra works fine, nothing strange
Jun 17 02:32:24 <asj> I was also calling overseas, so both parties expected some latency
Jun 17 02:32:34 <shorter> which provider you have?
Jun 17 02:32:37 <shorter> I'm on tmo atm
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 17 02:59:56 2010