**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 18 02:59:57 2010 Jun 18 03:01:02 pigeon: yeah Jun 18 03:01:19 since garnet is broken at the moment, I got a map viewer running via J2ME Jun 18 03:04:01 ds3: i find your usage choices curious Jun 18 03:04:31 map viewer... ever tried osm2go? Jun 18 03:05:15 pupnik: yeah... that was painfully slow Jun 18 03:05:38 to look at maps and track your position>? Jun 18 03:05:43 and I already have Maemo Mapper installed; I want something a bit more "native" for browsing the google map database Jun 18 03:06:05 native as in native to GMM Jun 18 03:06:16 what is GMM? Jun 18 03:06:27 I just need to find out if I can search for PoI's within that J2ME app Jun 18 03:06:33 GMM == Google Maps Mobile Jun 18 03:07:23 the PoI stuff don't seem to work for me with Maemo mapper Jun 18 04:18:09 moo Jun 18 04:18:48 though arfarf would more sound like it Jun 18 04:19:22 ~moo Jun 18 04:19:33 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Jun 18 04:19:35 ~status Jun 18 04:19:35 Since Sun Jun 13 08:51:39 2010, there have been 30 modifications, 248 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 172 commands. I have been awake for 4d 19h 27m 56s this session, and currently reference 117092 factoids. I'm using about 21940 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 10868.63/457.95 child 0.17/0.05 Jun 18 04:21:17 pretty laggy for so little to do Jun 18 04:21:56 I mean, 248 Q and 172 cmd in what, 5 days? Jun 18 04:22:03 indeed Jun 18 04:24:52 * DocScrutinizer2 waves Jun 18 04:29:53 is there a limited amount of applets that can show in the alarm/clock/profile menu? Jun 18 04:30:01 I had flashlight installed, and it disappeared Jun 18 04:31:04 * b-man passes out and falls straight on his face Jun 18 04:31:39 ZyXEL P660 -PAHH! what a rap. 5 min fast per day, though NTP is configured Jun 18 04:32:16 Crap even Jun 18 04:36:32 switching down the WAN for satisfying the provider's 24h max policy tears down all the NAT sessions, so despite this is a fixed IP none of my services like ssh or SIP connects continues to work Jun 18 04:36:56 hmm Jun 18 04:37:27 It's incredible what you can do wrong in a simple NAT router, and how ZyXEL managed to find and hit every oportunity to fail Jun 18 04:38:56 obviously they never heard about NAT-BEHAVE RFC at ZyXEL Jun 18 04:40:48 in the 90ies ZyXEL was the best you can get :-( Jun 18 04:41:37 weird Jun 18 04:41:45 ~botsback Jun 18 04:41:51 ~botsnack Jun 18 04:41:51 thanks, DocScrutinizer Jun 18 04:43:19 ~chaninfo Jun 18 04:43:19 I'm on 106 channels: #debian/922, #maemo/505, #meego/381, #kde/326, #asterisk/251, #gsoc/227, #openmoko/163, #wowace/143, #oe/141, #wowuidev/132, #webos-internals/116, #wowhead/116, #sc2mapster/96, #htc-linux/95, #openmoko-cdevel/95, #utah/61, #edev/60, #tomcat/60, #asterisk-dev/58, #bzflag/56, #curseforge/47, #wowwiki/47, #slug/44, #uclibc/42, #gllug/35, #elinux/35, #utos/32, #uphpu/32, #/29, #norganna/27, #elive/23, #brlcad/23, #storm/21, ... Jun 18 04:43:19 i've cached 4898 users, 3558 unique users, distributed over 106 channels. Jun 18 04:43:58 heh, we're pos#2 after #debian Jun 18 04:44:28 DocScrutinizer: btw, MohammadAG told me that you would be ticked if i re-wrote the overclock scripts in c and gave it a nice Qt-based GUI xDDDD Jun 18 04:44:29 and #meego > #kde, lol Jun 18 04:45:06 nah, I'd just shoot you to pluto :-( Jun 18 04:45:12 ;-D Jun 18 04:45:19 lol Jun 18 04:47:20 it's hard to believe how many noobs don't get a single word of all the warnings attached to all the OC info and install pkgs Jun 18 04:47:40 yeah Jun 18 04:47:57 Thanks Intel for giving OC the aura of leetness Jun 18 04:49:08 i think 90% mostly skim over all the warnings lol Jun 18 04:50:00 and then they absolutely categorically refuse to accept it *could* do any harm - "duh, my desktop PC is OC'd since 2007, dude! no problems :-))))" Jun 18 04:50:40 lol yup Jun 18 04:52:13 i'll bet that you'll start seeing cases of people frying their devices by year's end Jun 18 04:52:51 because they keep trying to push their devices past 1Ghz Jun 18 04:53:31 you'll never know, as they'll blame "the crappy apps in extras, segfaulting like mad" - not aware they fried the instruction decoder or pipeline or whatever Jun 18 04:53:50 true Jun 18 04:55:04 * b-man needs sleep -_- Jun 18 04:55:24 hmm Jun 18 04:56:08 "booohooo, my N900 doesn't play any more vids. It used to work like a charm on 720p, and now: just black. I re-installed mplayer 57 times, no luck. HEEEELP! PLZ!" Jun 18 04:56:16 speaking of OC, in the old days cpus were much more overclockable without extreme measures Jun 18 04:56:27 lol Jun 18 04:56:30 not really Jun 18 04:56:37 like the Celeron 300MHz, A series Jun 18 04:56:46 or the athlon-xp 2500+ Jun 18 04:57:21 Z80-4MHz, I seem to remember I operated it @ 12 Jun 18 04:57:45 iirc, 300a were probably just p3s that didn't make the cut in terms of cache Jun 18 04:57:47 * b-man passes out - c ya guys tomorrow :) Jun 18 04:57:52 cya Jun 18 04:58:20 z80 eh, in what system Jun 18 04:58:28 custom Jun 18 04:58:34 selfbuilt Jun 18 05:03:34 well, it was based on http://www.nascomhomepage.com/ Jun 18 05:04:38 galaxy attack, awesome Jun 18 05:05:26 back in the day i had a friend with a sinclair z80, he couldnt afford any games, so i cobbled together space invaders for him Jun 18 05:05:38 i think we ran out of ram though (no highscores) Jun 18 05:16:03 yeah, RAM was a bit of a nuisance, until I extended it to 128k cmos with proper buffering by a NiCad cell ;-D Jun 18 05:16:19 on Nascom-I Jun 18 05:17:00 later, when ZX81 became affordable, I had a 16k ram expansion always Jun 18 05:20:55 yeeha, friggin PA oon my laptop has a lag of ~30min for the desktop event sounds :-P Jun 18 05:21:40 well, I've seen lags of 2..3 days XP Jun 18 05:22:13 ~lart pulse audio for being utter crap Jun 18 05:22:13 * infobot readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at pulse audio for being utter crap Jun 18 05:33:35 (128k) actually 4k were never used, as that was the 2k ROM area which was 'shared' to write to a mirrored addr page in both banks Jun 18 05:42:32 anybody knows if qtnx is suppose to work with nomachine's nxserver or just with the freenx ? Jun 18 05:53:40 aint nobody here Jun 18 05:53:48 err what Jun 18 05:54:07 why so quiet Jun 18 05:54:25 well in my timezone it's soon 8am Jun 18 05:54:50 you in europe Jun 18 05:54:55 exactly Jun 18 05:55:11 moroning Jun 18 05:55:25 i kno Jun 18 05:57:28 whos playin in world cup today? Jun 18 05:59:56 aint nobody kno? Jun 18 06:00:27 don't remind me it's 8'o Jun 18 06:00:34 saddam: i suppose google knows Jun 18 06:01:31 why have IRC if every damn answer is on google? Jun 18 06:01:41 exactly Jun 18 06:02:01 /join #worldcup ! Jun 18 06:02:11 haha Jun 18 06:02:27 i kno....its off topic here Jun 18 06:03:22 so.....any word on mego on n900??? Jun 18 06:03:39 /join #meego :-P Jun 18 06:03:54 /join 0 Jun 18 06:03:56 xP Jun 18 06:04:02 haha yer funny Jun 18 06:04:03 moo mo Jun 18 06:04:18 (seriously, don't do that) Jun 18 06:04:18 saddam: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 Jun 18 06:04:31 moo DocScrutinizer Jun 18 06:05:21 demo Jun 18 06:05:26 i read that topic it dont answer my question Jun 18 06:06:46 what was the question .. any word? Jun 18 06:06:53 yes there are words on meego on n900 Jun 18 06:07:00 and that's the link Jun 18 06:07:02 with the word Jun 18 06:07:32 but there is another word.. I think everyone heard about it.. Jun 18 06:07:37 have you saddam ? Jun 18 06:07:40 ok...i hope it happens dont wanna be stuck with old os Jun 18 06:07:47 no Jun 18 06:08:07 A-well-a everybody's heard about the bird Jun 18 06:08:10 BIRD BIRD BIRD Jun 18 06:08:37 da hell u talkin bout? Jun 18 06:08:49 he's a bit high, ignore him Jun 18 06:09:25 =/ Jun 18 06:09:38 jk :) Jun 18 06:10:36 ovi store still sucking... no apps for n900 Jun 18 06:12:43 there are some Jun 18 06:12:46 but they are buggy Jun 18 06:14:08 yeah....where can i download crack of the navigation app? forget the name now Jun 18 06:14:48 saddam: you're obviously a Windows luser Jun 18 06:15:03 no....why? Jun 18 06:15:14 one thing the free software community tends to have in common is this: we take copyright infringement seriously Jun 18 06:15:35 but we hate the DMCA Jun 18 06:16:10 on symbian all yous do is download cracks....nobody ever pay for nothing.....what bout maemo? Jun 18 06:16:14 and what you just did is against FreeNode's policies and you could be K-lined for it Jun 18 06:16:24 saddam, there is nothing to crack Jun 18 06:16:35 ok....sorry Jun 18 06:16:49 saddam: 'cracks' are copyright infringement, illegal, and nothing we will support Jun 18 06:17:18 ok but i thought this was open community Jun 18 06:17:32 none this copyright bullshit Jun 18 06:17:35 it is an open community Jun 18 06:17:36 and the 'open community' is opposed to copyright infringement Jun 18 06:17:52 luke-jr: that's a harsh claim... they're frowned upon by the copyright owners, but i don't think cracks have anything to do with copyright Jun 18 06:17:58 99% of open source is copyrighted Jun 18 06:18:06 its a legally open community Jun 18 06:18:15 saddam : the principle of the open community is to try to avoid copyrighted software, not so crack the copyrighted one Jun 18 06:18:15 Wolfie: cracks generally have no purpose other than copyright infringement Jun 18 06:18:24 still, if there's good OSS, we wouldn't mind donating to the dev Jun 18 06:18:38 luke-jr: true, but it doesn't still make them illegal Jun 18 06:18:41 saddam: also, don't confuse free software with gratis software Jun 18 06:18:44 Wolfie: DMCA Jun 18 06:18:47 i got it all wrong then Jun 18 06:18:47 luke-jr: it's like putting all p2p traffic into the illegal bin Jun 18 06:19:19 nextime: "copyrighted software" is not the term you want - as luke-jr said, pretty much all free software is copyrighted Jun 18 06:19:23 well the DMCA prevents you from distributing apps that bypass an prevention mech.. like dvd playback Jun 18 06:19:34 not using it Jun 18 06:19:53 saddam: we support charging money for software, though often we don't Jun 18 06:20:22 just wanted to try the navigation app....ovi store dont have trial versions Jun 18 06:20:25 tbh I prefer free apps and donating to the dev over paid apps Jun 18 06:20:27 besides, DMCA is nothing more than an US-specific impediment. I dont think it's fair to bring that up in a worldwide community Jun 18 06:20:36 there is a trial for sygic Jun 18 06:20:37 but i'm afraid this will get off track, so i'll stop here Jun 18 06:20:48 MohammadAG51: I prefer free apps, whether I pay for them or not Jun 18 06:20:51 I bought sygic Jun 18 06:21:11 I use google maps Jun 18 06:21:14 free is good very good Jun 18 06:21:28 when is voice coming to ovi maps on n900 ? Jun 18 06:21:36 No idea Jun 18 06:21:48 nevar! Jun 18 06:21:50 :P Jun 18 06:22:07 MohammadAG51: Google Maps isn't free Jun 18 06:22:11 fucken bullshit even cheap nokias have free navigation but n900 no Jun 18 06:22:30 saddam: nonsense, there is no such thing as free navigation Jun 18 06:22:33 we should get a bunch of devs to help make a turn by turn navigation software with voice instructions on open street map Jun 18 06:22:46 dotblank: I agree. Who can fund it? :p Jun 18 06:22:47 luke-jr, i barely use maps, IL doesn't need one Jun 18 06:23:02 luke-jr: there is....what cha talkin bout Jun 18 06:23:12 I can donate my voice Jun 18 06:23:20 for the stupid american voice Jun 18 06:23:39 saddam: you clearly have no idea what 'free' means Jun 18 06:23:46 Wolfie : dmca is us only, i don't care about it. But cracking software is against not only dmca and laws, it is also unethic and unfair even if you are in a country with no copyright laws at all Jun 18 06:24:12 http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Jun 18 06:24:17 means i download shit to my fone and i dont pay nothing. aint that what free means? Jun 18 06:24:26 saddam: no. Jun 18 06:24:35 nextime: I disagree with your last statement. Standard copyright is in fact unethical. Bypassing it, if legal, is fine by me. Jun 18 06:24:38 saddam, see my link Jun 18 06:24:40 saddam: no Jun 18 06:24:47 ???????? Jun 18 06:24:49 saddam: that's what gratis means Jun 18 06:25:02 'free' means what you can do with it is unrestricted Jun 18 06:25:39 fuck this gratis shit....aint it the same as free? Jun 18 06:25:42 saddam: even if you have to pay for it, software can still be free Jun 18 06:25:47 The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. Jun 18 06:25:51 no, gratis is merely *free of charge* Jun 18 06:26:11 luke-jr : right, but infranging copyright is uniethical too. The right way is to use copyleft and respect it :) Jun 18 06:26:13 h264 right now is gratis Jun 18 06:26:16 "free of charge"/"gratis" is not important Jun 18 06:26:36 nextime: copyright infringement is only unethical because it is illegal (and it is immoral to break the law) Jun 18 06:26:54 I don't agree that it is immoral to break the law Jun 18 06:27:00 h264 is dangerous because when its no longer free... Jun 18 06:27:01 gavin: it is. get over it. Jun 18 06:27:01 there are some dumb laws :) Jun 18 06:27:05 i asked a simple question and i get lectured on some legal mumbo jumbo shit....i just want free shit on my fone, fuck the tecnical shit Jun 18 06:27:15 mmm. Copyright is a trade-off between the public and the publishers, really. Jun 18 06:27:20 luke-jr : so, in your opinion there is nothing wrong in infranging copyright in country where there is no copyright law? Jun 18 06:27:22 I don't agree that it is *necessarily* immoral to break the law Jun 18 06:27:26 saddam: I hope you get sued. Jun 18 06:27:31 That's something publishers today have forgotten, largely. Jun 18 06:27:36 nextime: absolutely nothing wrong with it AFAIK Jun 18 06:27:38 saddam, You sir are on FREENODE the center of "free software" irc communication Jun 18 06:27:43 for what? Jun 18 06:27:51 saddam: for copyright infringement Jun 18 06:28:04 i aint infridged nothing Jun 18 06:28:12 saddam: you just seeked help in doing so Jun 18 06:28:16 saddam: Go somewhere else? Free software community in general don't care about pirating software. Jun 18 06:28:23 ok sorry Jun 18 06:28:23 I find it highly probable you have done so in the past. Jun 18 06:28:26 luke-jr : my opinion is different. If we want respect for copyleft licenses, we need to respect also closed one, pushing the reasons to use only free one Jun 18 06:28:43 Since discovering free software/open source, I've hardly pirated anything the last 15 years. Jun 18 06:28:51 Veggen, same Jun 18 06:28:53 nextime: my opinion is based on the immoral nature of copyright Jun 18 06:28:57 No need nowadays Jun 18 06:29:07 nextime: also known as usury in more ancient times Jun 18 06:29:16 Veggen: do you like a good booty ? Jun 18 06:29:25 but open software is often shit....the good stuff you gotta pay $$$ no? Jun 18 06:29:30 well we all sorta know its kinda broken right now... but its still the law Jun 18 06:29:39 saddam: thats not neccessarily true, and is open to personal opinion Jun 18 06:29:42 saddam: you can pay $$$ for open source Jun 18 06:29:44 trolling friday trolling Jun 18 06:29:45 luke-jr : if usury can be translated in the manner i think, for me it is a very differentthing :) Jun 18 06:30:00 saddam: all good software is by prerequisite open :) Jun 18 06:30:09 luke-jr, +1 Jun 18 06:30:22 luke-jr: +.5 Jun 18 06:30:25 open often means bunch of tecno geeks putting shit together no? Jun 18 06:30:30 nextime: usury is defined as charging for both the object, and the usage of the object; copyright does exactly that Jun 18 06:30:34 saddam: no Jun 18 06:30:42 saddam, um... sure... but google opened vp8 Jun 18 06:30:52 saddam: and "tecno geeks" are the experts Jun 18 06:30:57 and several other huge companies support it Jun 18 06:31:06 luke-jr: not all experts are techno geeks though luke-jr Jun 18 06:31:07 saddam : did you consider Sun or NASA a bunch of shit? Jun 18 06:31:16 saddam: while we mostly all have jobs, most of the proprietary software industry is full of morons who write crappy code Jun 18 06:31:18 they both produce a lot of open source software... Jun 18 06:31:33 luke-jr: example: microsoft? ;) Jun 18 06:31:40 yeah and N800 users are still waitin for maemo Jun 18 06:31:41 Xisdibik: exactly Jun 18 06:31:52 saddam: Maemo is not open source Jun 18 06:31:53 Everyone has "their" propreitary system.. and everyone recreates the same thing Jun 18 06:32:07 seems wastefull to me Jun 18 06:32:36 when $$$ is not a motivator good things happen Jun 18 06:32:40 i wont ask no more for cracks Jun 18 06:32:46 dotblank: sometimes Jun 18 06:32:58 when $$$ is not involved, people only write what fits their own needs Jun 18 06:33:15 $$$ is needed if a non-programmer wants something unique Jun 18 06:33:20 luke-jr: simple, make someone need what you want ;) Jun 18 06:33:25 heh Jun 18 06:33:38 lets change topic.....why is nokia not giving a fuck about n900? Jun 18 06:33:41 $$$ also gives us more time to work on stuff Jun 18 06:33:50 saddam: PR1.2 says otherwise Jun 18 06:33:55 saddam: because N900 is just a toy experiment to Nokia, I guess Jun 18 06:33:57 well shall I change it to "primary" motivator Jun 18 06:34:16 experiment???? that aint fair Jun 18 06:34:29 n900 is for the techno-geeks Jun 18 06:34:37 IMO Jun 18 06:34:38 saddam: I'll agree whole-heartedly if you have issues with Nokia's marketting Jun 18 06:34:41 dotblank: im not a techno geek and i have one :) Jun 18 06:34:53 Xisdibik, sure you are Jun 18 06:35:06 My definition of techno-geek is a glorious one Jun 18 06:35:11 dotblank: i sure am, and its still by far the best phone ive ever used Jun 18 06:35:23 i have n900 and its the best fuckin fone out there....but why no love???? Jun 18 06:35:31 it's not a phone Jun 18 06:35:43 Mobile Internet Device? :p Jun 18 06:35:45 people are too dumb to understand what "free" software really means Jun 18 06:36:07 Xisdibik: "Internet Tablet" is the term Nokia uses Jun 18 06:36:15 "handheld" is the general category I put it in Jun 18 06:36:33 handsheld would be my general category Jun 18 06:36:37 since i typically use both hands ;) Jun 18 06:36:51 but you can hold it in one :p Jun 18 06:36:56 can't wait for Meego Jun 18 06:36:57 lies! Jun 18 06:37:02 maybe not USE it Jun 18 06:37:04 but HOLD it Jun 18 06:37:15 testing right now Jun 18 06:37:15 wait Jun 18 06:37:19 lol Jun 18 06:37:26 where is the dude that was gonna port freemantle to N800???? Jun 18 06:37:26 nope definitely took both hands to lift Jun 18 06:37:30 ... Jun 18 06:37:39 mohammadAG-b: hola Jun 18 06:37:42 Xisdibik: I lift my N810 with one hand all the time Jun 18 06:37:42 just teasin luke-jr Jun 18 06:37:47 saddam: never happening Jun 18 06:37:50 Hi, again... Jun 18 06:37:58 luke-jr: i thought Mer was a real thing Jun 18 06:38:08 Xisdibik: it was. keyword: was Jun 18 06:38:18 i see Jun 18 06:38:31 Xisdibik : blame meego! Jun 18 06:38:31 plz let me know. Do you know how i can contact to debmaster, Mr. Jeremiah Foster? Jun 18 06:38:33 Mer wasn't Fremantle, though Jun 18 06:38:56 i thought it was an attempt at getting alot of fremantles stuff into the older tablets Jun 18 06:39:14 it was an attempt to make a free software OS based on the open bits of Maemo Jun 18 06:39:19 including supporting N8x0 Jun 18 06:39:27 I see Jun 18 06:39:28 i find 1.2 slowed my n900 down a bit....yous too? Jun 18 06:39:38 not really Jun 18 06:39:42 * mer is now known as meego Jun 18 06:39:48 My n900 performs much better with pr1.2 Jun 18 06:40:03 I get better 3g reception which is odd Jun 18 06:40:08 I find saddam slowed my #maemo down a bit... yous too? Jun 18 06:40:09 mine drops frames after 1.2, but works faster because of that Jun 18 06:40:50 DocScrutinizer : uhmm is more precise to say "mer knoweledge is used in meego", cause meego is very different from mer, no? Jun 18 06:40:55 MohammadAG51: identity crisis? Jun 18 06:41:06 it was suppose to fix shit not slow down things.....get yer shit together nokia Jun 18 06:41:18 saddam: Nokia is (mostly) not here Jun 18 06:41:23 luke-jr: bouncer Jun 18 06:41:24 saddam, Are you a troll? Jun 18 06:41:43 i thought there were dudes here from nokia? Jun 18 06:41:57 afaik just timeless_mbp, and he's idle Jun 18 06:42:05 * timeless_mbp looks around Jun 18 06:42:08 there are others Jun 18 06:42:09 or not Jun 18 06:42:13 moo timeless_mbp Jun 18 06:42:20 ribbit Jun 18 06:42:24 * luke-jr highlights lcuk for the heck of it Jun 18 06:42:37 bacon Jun 18 06:42:39 how bout that quigil guy? Jun 18 06:42:49 I don't think Quim goes on IRC Jun 18 06:42:55 not often at least Jun 18 06:42:59 what is it with the trolls.. the n900 seems to draw them like moths to the proverbial flame Jun 18 06:43:02 yea IRC is a madhouse Jun 18 06:43:05 infobot, seen qgil Jun 18 06:43:06 he comes to the meego channels usually Jun 18 06:43:07 qgil <~qgil@a88-112-27-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 78d 10h 53m 41s ago, saying: 'ever'. Jun 18 06:43:13 or meetings Jun 18 06:43:18 Stskeeps: shh Jun 18 06:43:27 Stskeeps, usually = 78d? :) Jun 18 06:43:46 they dont care about maemo or n900 Jun 18 06:43:51 Everyone nows mailing lists are the serious buisness Jun 18 06:43:54 saddam: nope. get over it. Jun 18 06:44:09 saddam please. shut the hell up. Jun 18 06:44:14 lol Jun 18 06:44:22 qgil is probably on another european vacation Jun 18 06:44:25 luke-jr + konfoo +1 Jun 18 06:44:30 konfoo: angry....are we? Jun 18 06:44:41 tired of you more like it saddam Jun 18 06:44:42 tired of dimwits Jun 18 06:44:47 MohammadAG51: i think the key problem is that people are speaking to him as a employee and not a community member/person.. makes chat uncomfortable Jun 18 06:45:05 Stskeeps, I see Jun 18 06:45:09 Stskeeps: that's what aliases are for? Jun 18 06:45:19 luke-jr: generally those don't last Jun 18 06:45:19 I wish people didn't tell me who worked for nokia Jun 18 06:45:21 gah Jun 18 06:45:31 timeless_mbp: you've tried, I see? XD Jun 18 06:45:37 Stskeeps, so remind me again, you're not working at nokia? Jun 18 06:45:38 if i remember he was full of shit....first said mego on n900 then changed his mind.... Jun 18 06:45:41 dotblank: then don't visit the maemo.org/profile/list Jun 18 06:45:44 Everyone in here im sure has helped me out at least a dozen times Jun 18 06:45:59 dotblank: I have? Jun 18 06:46:00 MohammadAG51: i'm not an employee Jun 18 06:46:04 when did I help you dotblank ? :P Jun 18 06:46:05 luke-jr, yup Jun 18 06:46:05 dotblank: you're thanking 400 people? :) Jun 18 06:46:11 ha Jun 18 06:46:14 Yes Jun 18 06:46:25 dotblank: even ChanServ? Jun 18 06:46:28 ive been in this channel since December Jun 18 06:46:28 very appreciative of you, good attitude Jun 18 06:46:34 luke-jr: oh, chanserv is helpful Jun 18 06:46:34 timeless_mbp: 400? I see 507 Jun 18 06:46:46 luke-jr: i'm too lazy to read the right side of my window Jun 18 06:46:50 107 of them dont count luke-jr Jun 18 06:47:01 seriously I asked how to reset the tracker and BAM! in like 2 secs I got an answer Jun 18 06:47:04 true, we can't thank saddam Jun 18 06:47:09 … chanserv is very useful, especially when it adds moderation against flood attacks Jun 18 06:47:17 … or when it ops someone who then whacks a spammer Jun 18 06:47:17 infobot, trackerrest Jun 18 06:47:23 infobot, trackerreset Jun 18 06:47:24 rumour has it, trackerreset is "tracker-processes --hard-reset" in Terminal Jun 18 06:47:28 or like how the ringtones are chached Jun 18 06:47:28 MohammadAG51: tel: ? Jun 18 06:47:28 dotblank: generally my help comes from about 10-15 core people here Jun 18 06:47:29 funny when i came here they told me to google shit....that aint helpful Jun 18 06:47:30 timeless_mbp: never seen ChanServ do anything useful against flooding Jun 18 06:47:34 suggestion on building packages Jun 18 06:47:37 porting apps Jun 18 06:47:42 saddam: try Bing then Jun 18 06:47:44 time, luke and sts are among thost Jun 18 06:47:45 wow 508 people. i never did a /names to check until now Jun 18 06:47:45 those* Jun 18 06:47:55 timeless_mbp, not now :) Jun 18 06:47:59 ok :) Jun 18 06:48:10 I asked for a port of VLC in here Jun 18 06:48:18 yer funny Jun 18 06:48:24 [2010-06-17 20:34:40] [Notify] qgil ist online (irc.freenode.org). Jun 18 06:48:32 and I spent about 3 hours working with him building it over gtalk/jingle Jun 18 06:48:43 and he got it done Jun 18 06:48:48 that is indeed awesome Jun 18 06:49:01 GRRRRRRRRRR... the N900's battery charing setup blows chunks Jun 18 06:49:11 timeless_mbp: happen to know any app that can do video chat between Mac and Linux? Jun 18 06:49:13 ds3: how so? Jun 18 06:49:27 luke-jr: hrm Jun 18 06:49:31 google talk doesn't work? Jun 18 06:49:32 luke-jr: on the n900 or in general? Jun 18 06:49:35 Sorry, again. plz let me know. Do you know how i can contact to debmaster, Mr. Jeremiah Foster? Jun 18 06:49:41 kenya888_: he left the job Jun 18 06:49:45 luke-jr: in theory if your video camera is friendly Jun 18 06:49:46 timeless_mbp: Google Talk doesn't exist for Linux... and I don't think Mac either Jun 18 06:49:49 and flash supports it Jun 18 06:49:53 Xisdibik: general Jun 18 06:49:57 luke-jr: google talk is a flash based thing :) Jun 18 06:49:57 luke-jr: skype :P Jun 18 06:50:03 that PoS can't boot at all if there is low battery or missing battery even with an AC adapter Jun 18 06:50:04 timeless_mbp: ... no flash Jun 18 06:50:07 Stskeeps, Really? who is the debmaster now? Jun 18 06:50:10 luke-jr, im google talk is a xmpp/jabber implementation soo... linux I knows works with it Jun 18 06:50:11 no skype either -.- Jun 18 06:50:23 luke-jr: there's also oovoo Jun 18 06:50:25 luke-jr: why, skype exists in both Jun 18 06:50:31 oovoo is a pile Jun 18 06:50:33 dotblank: yes, but I don't know any Jingle+video implementations for either platform Jun 18 06:50:37 Xisdibik: it's proprietary Jun 18 06:50:45 luke-jr: oh, you didnt say open ;P Jun 18 06:50:49 oh, then scratch oovoo too then. Jun 18 06:50:53 Xisdibik: that's a given when talking to me :) Jun 18 06:50:59 luke-jr: im not sure for MAC, but Ekiga? Jun 18 06:51:03 I don't use proprietary software, period. :p Jun 18 06:51:03 Empathy works with video chat Jun 18 06:51:09 on linux Jun 18 06:51:15 tin cans & string? Jun 18 06:51:25 kenya888_: noone Jun 18 06:51:39 konfoo: I don't have source for tin cans Jun 18 06:51:40 i wanted to compile empathy but.... gtk is old on maemo Jun 18 06:51:44 I tested it liek yesterday Jun 18 06:51:45 o/ frals_ Jun 18 06:51:49 o/ Jun 18 06:51:56 luke: you will after you eat the baked beans Jun 18 06:51:58 google talk works fine on the n900 Jun 18 06:52:08 why is this an issue Jun 18 06:52:14 with video + jingle Jun 18 06:52:20 jingle? Jun 18 06:52:22 i think the macintrash is the issue, no? Jun 18 06:52:24 Stskeeps, oops... thanks. I'd like to contact autobuilder admin. who is proper person, do you know? Jun 18 06:52:31 so, there's X-Lite Jun 18 06:52:34 X-Fade Jun 18 06:52:45 and Blink/Zoipper for OS X Jun 18 06:53:03 if you're trying to do standard video protocols based on SIP Jun 18 06:53:11 in theory this stuff can/should work Jun 18 06:53:14 ! Jun 18 06:53:18 but the last time someone tried to demo it Jun 18 06:53:21 it failed Jun 18 06:53:21 empathy works with sip Jun 18 06:53:30 * luke-jr ponders if Asterisk could handle video Jun 18 06:53:48 http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+video Jun 18 06:54:16 is there even a traditional video telephony network Jun 18 06:54:25 like from carrier to carrier Jun 18 06:54:31 no Jun 18 06:54:41 well that needs fixing Jun 18 06:54:46 speaking as a carrier - no Jun 18 06:55:00 although, depends on what level of service you're providing as a 'carrier' Jun 18 06:55:01 why? Jun 18 06:55:01 timeless_mbp: any ideas for 1.2? :P Jun 18 06:55:09 luke-jr: 1.2 of what? Jun 18 06:55:13 Asteris Jun 18 06:55:22 i think you should upgrade to 1.4.x :) Jun 18 06:55:31 too scared to XD Jun 18 06:55:38 Digium broke 1.2 with 1.2.19 or so Jun 18 06:55:43 so I have to stick to 1.2.18 :( Jun 18 06:55:44 stage a beta deployment? Jun 18 06:55:44 lcuk: did you ever finish that 'clone device' stuff so it would be easy to get 2 devices exactly the same? :p Jun 18 06:55:46 timeless_mbp: screw x-lite Jun 18 06:55:49 maybe Jun 18 06:56:10 gah telephony equipment costs too much Jun 18 06:56:15 DocScrutinizer: you have something better? i'm open to suggestions Jun 18 06:56:15 luke-jr: whats your end goal with the video chat? Jun 18 06:56:16 its insaine Jun 18 06:56:28 Xisdibik: talk to my wife Jun 18 06:56:31 anyway, relying on traditional phone companies for video call support is stupid Jun 18 06:56:35 timeless_mbp: for SIP on linux? sure Jun 18 06:56:43 DocScrutinizer: on osx Jun 18 06:56:44 luke-jr: just use a proprietary one until an open one comes along thats simple imho Jun 18 06:56:47 ooh Jun 18 06:56:54 Xisdibik: I don't use proprietary software. Jun 18 06:57:17 I was a cisco voice engineer Jun 18 06:57:21 ughs Jun 18 06:57:22 anyone tried http://www.qutecom.org/ ? Jun 18 06:57:23 does that mean you dont have an n900? :) Jun 18 06:57:24 there've been some attempts to port twinkle for OSX. Seems some lib always blew chunks, but it should be feasible Jun 18 06:57:29 dotblank: my condolences Jun 18 06:57:30 Xisdibik: sure don't. Jun 18 06:57:38 luke-jr: what phone do u have? Jun 18 06:57:43 Xisdibik: none Jun 18 06:57:49 dotblank: are you the one i should hold responsible for this pile of crap cisco voip system we have? Jun 18 06:58:01 luke-jr: maybe you should look into a phone so u can call your wife ;) Jun 18 06:58:05 I worked for a cisco partner Jun 18 06:58:08 Xisdibik: why? Jun 18 06:58:17 Xisdibik: ok, fine, I do have a phone Jun 18 06:58:25 luke-jr: ha truth found:P Jun 18 06:58:32 some GE thing Jun 18 06:58:36 timeless_mbp: ...as michel de Boer (original author of twinkle) was very strict on keeping it platform independent Jun 18 06:58:36 but omg... they have unity running on windows boxes Jun 18 06:58:38 unified systems 500.. biggest pile i have seen in a while Jun 18 06:58:42 uses RJ11 etc Jun 18 06:58:43 sounds proprietary luke-jr ;) Jun 18 06:58:44 I hate unity Jun 18 06:58:53 Xisdibik: sounds CPUless Jun 18 06:59:03 I hate presence server Jun 18 06:59:09 timeless_mbp: that's why the cli interface uses a named pipe instead of d-bus Jun 18 06:59:18 thankfully i dont have to deal with it Jun 18 06:59:49 we lost quite a lot of buisness to linux users implementing asterisks in schools Jun 18 06:59:58 but i did like the way they swore up and down to not use the shell and use the 'gui'.. which resulted in the entire system going to crap cause it basically overwrites all your settings with it's 'defaults' Jun 18 06:59:58 and this is in america Jun 18 07:00:01 crazy Jun 18 07:00:40 the shell is so much better Jun 18 07:00:44 timeless_mbp: if you're interested, twinkle is going 'community' this very moment Jun 18 07:00:59 but what got me really angry were undocumented ios commands for debugging callerid Jun 18 07:01:17 twinkle is what my dog does in a corner Jun 18 07:01:32 and they worst thing is cisco's bug reporting tool Jun 18 07:01:41 * timeless_mbp is already resource overstretched Jun 18 07:01:42 it is beyond horrible Jun 18 07:01:48 dotblank: can we stop this depressing conversation Jun 18 07:01:58 I still think IRC should be improved Jun 18 07:02:07 konfoo, sure Jun 18 07:02:10 you cant improve perfection Jun 18 07:02:12 add voice chat by converting it into ascii xP Jun 18 07:02:14 dotblank excellent :) Jun 18 07:02:49 konfoo: ?? Jun 18 07:02:50 I think I like QuteCom so far Jun 18 07:02:54 at least in theory Jun 18 07:02:55 ~dict twinkle Jun 18 07:02:57 they should have an irc with a whiteboard but only opps or a special write flag to users permitted to use it Jun 18 07:03:03 ops* Jun 18 07:03:10 i could not get info from dict.org 'alarm at /home/ibot/infobot/src/Modules/Dict.pl line 42. Jun 18 07:03:15 aww Jun 18 07:03:23 my definition holds Jun 18 07:03:29 ;) Jun 18 07:03:39 you got a strange dog, konfoo Jun 18 07:03:46 that i do Jun 18 07:03:52 minus the libpurple dep :( Jun 18 07:03:56 twinkle twinkle little star Jun 18 07:04:20 s/start/dog/ for konfoo's kids Jun 18 07:04:35 they have diapers for that Jun 18 07:04:59 hey its late, and i have spent the day deep in erlang. have some sympathy Jun 18 07:05:06 What distros are you all using? Jun 18 07:05:16 * DocScrutinizer suggestes to konfoo he should run a memtest on his wetware Jun 18 07:05:58 just started using arch and now im very fond of it Jun 18 07:06:28 wakka wakka? Jun 18 07:06:50 ouch that's worse than we thought Jun 18 07:07:07 the fact that he's using arch? Jun 18 07:07:15 or my lame pacman impersonation Jun 18 07:07:18 see where erlang get your mind, children :-P Jun 18 07:07:42 haha indeed Jun 18 07:07:56 either erlang sucks, or ejabberd makes a bad example <.< Jun 18 07:08:34 ive not used ejabberd but i did try to install it once (went with openfire) and it was a little too cryptic Jun 18 07:09:10 I don't know why, but I seem to like ejabberd Jun 18 07:09:14 despite the problems it gives me Jun 18 07:09:47 church of emacs? Jun 18 07:10:05 ... Jun 18 07:10:11 eighty megbytes and constantly swapping Jun 18 07:10:34 Supybot by far uses the most RAM on my server Jun 18 07:10:43 (used to be eight in former days) Jun 18 07:11:16 168 MB Jun 18 07:11:21 but that's the nice thing with ETLAs, you can adapt them to the needs Jun 18 07:11:21 wow someone in ubuntu-offtopic found this gem Jun 18 07:11:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM Jun 18 07:11:46 ejabberd is only 50 MB Jun 18 07:17:22 DocScrutinizer вщ г умук ыдууз, Jun 18 07:17:28 do you ever sleep? Jun 18 07:17:37 constantly Jun 18 07:17:56 DocScrutinizer, i think you and MohammadAG51 are cyborgs Jun 18 07:19:30 now that's funny: Jun 18 07:19:36 ~x ru en вщ г умук ыдууз Jun 18 07:19:42 Ð ² Ñ ‰ Ð ³ Ñ ƒ Ð ¼ Ñ ƒ Of ðº Ñ ‹ OF Ð´Ñ ƒ Ñ ƒ з Jun 18 07:19:51 failbot Jun 18 07:19:57 lol Jun 18 07:20:05 as well as it';s gebbrish in russian too Jun 18 07:21:04 ~x de en infobot du bist eine kuh Jun 18 07:21:07 info.-offered you are a cow Jun 18 07:29:34 !help Jun 18 07:30:29 ¿what Jun 18 07:31:26 lol Jun 18 07:31:58 meh Jun 18 07:34:05 morning Stskeeps! Jun 18 07:34:25 morn tekojo Jun 18 07:34:39 Stskeeps: coffee? Jun 18 07:34:43 tekojo: sure Jun 18 07:35:05 danielwilms: want to join for coffee? Jun 18 07:35:27 tekojo hehe...sure Jun 18 07:39:01 hmm coffee Jun 18 07:41:37 ~tell konfoo about twinkle Jun 18 07:41:42 :-P Jun 18 07:49:21 Morning, all Jun 18 07:49:56 Morning Jaffa Jun 18 07:50:05 mo jaffa Jun 18 08:18:17 tekojo i would liek coffee too please =) Jun 18 08:26:40 * tekojo starts wondering how much it costs to send coffee around the world Jun 18 08:27:12 depends on temperature you want it to keep Jun 18 08:27:20 whats wrong with my changelog? error: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/qexercise_0.1-2/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Jun 18 08:27:32 qexercise (0.1-2) unstable; urgency=low Jun 18 08:27:32 * Initial release (Closes: #nnnn) Jun 18 08:27:32 -- unknown Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:16:36 +0200 Jun 18 08:27:40 is the changelog file Jun 18 08:50:45 tekojo, sending the coffee isnt expensive - its the personal butler to hold the cup and keep it stirred and hot during the journey that is :D Jun 18 08:52:33 * frals_ slaps lcuk Jun 18 08:52:47 morning frals_ \o Jun 18 08:52:52 mornin o/ Jun 18 08:52:58 did you see what i asked you above? Jun 18 08:52:58 and no, i didnt do a clone service Jun 18 08:53:03 ok :D Jun 18 08:53:39 its also a bit infeasible for large quantities but can be done with ssh Jun 18 08:54:08 just need it for my 2 devices pretty much.. guess i could do with backup/restore app Jun 18 08:54:12 it will be interesting to see if usb host mode could allow it to happen Jun 18 08:54:25 yeah but you miss everything in mydocs Jun 18 08:55:03 hmm Jun 18 08:55:38 can you modify backuprestore app to include stuff like that? Jun 18 08:55:56 X-Fade: it... just... keeps... on... coming... back :) the frenzy thing, I mean Jun 18 08:56:06 rsync? Jun 18 08:59:09 frals_: you could modify the PC Suite scripts to enable usb networking automagically, and then launch an rsynch after a few minutes Jun 18 08:59:25 Where is the file that keeps the information about where the desktop icons are placed? Jun 18 08:59:50 frals_ you are working on maemo/meego in Nokia - right? Jun 18 09:00:12 crashanddie: alright, ill look in to that, thanks :) Jun 18 09:01:02 ag0ny: /usr/share/applications/hildon/? Jun 18 09:02:26 frals_ ? Jun 18 09:02:38 crashanddie: and what is it called? Jun 18 09:02:49 ag0ny: eh? Jun 18 09:03:01 ag0ny: I don't know, Philip? Roger? Alex? Jun 18 09:03:10 crashanddie: Hm... Jun 18 09:03:20 .desktop maybe? Jun 18 09:03:40 Philip.desktop Jun 18 09:03:52 in /usr/share/applications/hildon/ there are a lot of .desktop files Jun 18 09:04:12 ZogG: yes i work for nokia. Jun 18 09:04:30 but none of these contains information about where the icon is placed Jun 18 09:04:44 instead they container info about the name/icon /exec things Jun 18 09:04:47 frals_ i know, i already told you my congrats, i just wonder if you work on maemo/meego specificly or not Jun 18 09:05:04 ag0ny: you got a point there Jun 18 09:05:32 and the second question - doest it mean your apps would be more integrated in amemo as you work and have more access to OS Jun 18 09:06:33 DocScrutinizer: There must (as far as I can imagine) be a file that holds information about where the icons are placed on the desktops Jun 18 09:06:52 aah, yes Jun 18 09:07:06 Hello, I'm trying to activate hid. Jun 18 09:07:12 I open xterminal Jun 18 09:07:20 I can't find an editor. Jun 18 09:07:28 to open main.conf Jun 18 09:07:45 DocScrutinizer: But where and what is it called? (I want to configure my desktops within this file, as placing icons precicesly (sp?) is a bit problematic) Jun 18 09:08:17 you could enable gridsnap in tweakr Jun 18 09:08:44 but there of course has to be a file to edit plain text the icon pos on the 4 desktops Jun 18 09:08:52 alas I don't know offhand Jun 18 09:09:14 DocScrutinizer: ok, so I am at least not fully dumb :D Jun 18 09:10:46 Hello again! just a very basic information: what command in xterminal to edit a text file? Jun 18 09:10:59 nano Jun 18 09:11:10 Thanks scelt! Jun 18 09:11:14 np! Jun 18 09:13:14 Xterminal isn't cooperative: "nano: command not found" Jun 18 09:16:18 I4U apt-get install nano Jun 18 09:18:46 ZogG, things are so simple with the right tip! Jun 18 09:19:23 I4U as maemo is small on phone - some progs are not included Jun 18 09:21:30 ag0ny: if you got bad luck, then those are stored in gconf Jun 18 09:22:11 anybody here using qtnx? Seems like even the keyboard doesn't work Jun 18 09:22:48 timeless_mbp: any idea where the desktop icons/widgets positions are stored? Jun 18 09:22:59 not offhand Jun 18 09:23:07 but strace is your friend Jun 18 09:23:12 :-P Jun 18 09:23:24 I'd probably prefer find Jun 18 09:23:28 did someone here test the android on n900 Jun 18 09:24:30 DocScrutinizer: I used tweakr and the grid :D Jun 18 09:24:32 eeeeeewww Jun 18 09:24:37 DocScrutinizer: Thanks for the hint Jun 18 09:24:42 yw Jun 18 09:28:54 After installing nano, xterminal said: "apt-get -f install to correct unmet dependencies. It proposes to install ussd4all. I accept and receive the message: "Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/ussd4all_0.0.1armel.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1). What is to be done? Jun 18 09:29:15 apt-get install coffee Jun 18 09:29:31 coffee? Jun 18 09:30:19 If I try to use nano: "not found"! Jun 18 09:31:46 I4U, i wasnt answering your point initially, i am trying to get more coffee to start the day. so try removing ussd perhaps or rerun apt-get update and apt-get -f install Jun 18 09:32:21 its possible you have some dodgy repositories listed which are getting your dependencies screwed up Jun 18 09:32:28 Hmm, qtnx seems to be pretty buggy. Keyboard doesn't work, the remote desktop window only opens if the settings has been alterned during same session. O_o.... Guessing that keyboard could be gotten to work on a user level but with the window problem no hope shall I have Jun 18 09:32:54 no real fullscreen :/ Jun 18 09:34:35 how can I disable the pre-loading screenshot "feature" of pr1.2? Jun 18 09:35:55 I4U klemme get my n900 Jun 18 09:39:15 is this implemented in the window manager? Jun 18 09:39:20 where the pics are stored? Jun 18 09:39:33 ZogG: klemme? I don't understantd. Jun 18 09:40:39 lemee Jun 18 09:40:41 lemme* Jun 18 09:40:45 let me =)) Jun 18 09:41:14 OK ;) Jun 18 09:45:09 can somebody hear me? Jun 18 09:45:59 pancake, afaik its upto applications to take their own snapshot Jun 18 09:46:05 pancake: hear yes. understand no Jun 18 09:46:11 and MohammadAG51 knows the folder, i cant remember where it is Jun 18 09:46:27 lcuk: so, how can I disable this feature in the mail client? Jun 18 09:46:29 ZogG, I uninstall ussd-widget. Reinstall nano with the message: "E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)" Jun 18 09:46:42 pancake, patch the mail client Jun 18 09:46:53 at which offset? :) Jun 18 09:47:15 i dunno, source is available tho ;) no need to be a barbarian, we have compilers Jun 18 09:47:54 but how about you start by explaining your problem with it Jun 18 09:48:03 pancake: maybe creating a 0 length 'image' file and set it chmod u-w might do the trick Jun 18 09:48:09 since its obviously there and used by many people Jun 18 09:48:14 I4U oh, sorry, i rebooted phone (actually only turned off) and forgot about you. let me turn it on and try to install, i did it on pr 1.1.1 as i remmeber Jun 18 09:48:25 well. its a pity to get wrong application UI while it's loading Jun 18 09:48:45 pancake, can you take screenshots and check if theres a bug against it Jun 18 09:48:49 so you get not.updated.app.ui->screenshot->real.app.ui Jun 18 09:48:54 pancake: resp chown root && chmod go-w Jun 18 09:49:00 lcuk: i should record a video to demonstrate it Jun 18 09:49:10 but its quite anoying to try to click on stuff that it's not there Jun 18 09:49:12 pancake, whatever as long as its short Jun 18 09:49:27 lcuk: where's the screenshot? Jun 18 09:49:32 * pancake is checking the source Jun 18 09:49:51 i can fix it with LD_PRELOAD Jun 18 09:49:54 ZogG, I'm on PR1.2 Jun 18 09:49:58 me too Jun 18 09:50:02 hildon_gtk_window_take_screenshot Jun 18 09:50:04 I4U, i installed it Jun 18 09:50:06 we had this question "where are the screenshots" maybe 24h ago in this chan Jun 18 09:50:13 pancake, id rather see the problem before trying to hack something to it Jun 18 09:50:14 and had an error at the end, but it works =) Jun 18 09:50:30 lcuk: do you use modest? Jun 18 09:50:32 if indeed its a bug i'd rather do something more than a hack Jun 18 09:50:55 lcuk: i want a hack for testing, will report issue with a patch Jun 18 09:51:16 lcuk: how can it be a 'bug' when the app is showing a misleading screenshot while it loads? Jun 18 09:51:20 :-P Jun 18 09:51:43 modest_account_view_set_show_last_update() weird method name :) Jun 18 09:52:15 i can certainly fix this in binary easily than setting up the development environment Jun 18 09:52:40 I'd replace the 'scrennshot' image by a photo of a turtle, and set that readonly Jun 18 09:52:50 i like turtles Jun 18 09:52:54 ZogG, I just ran "nano /etc/bluetooth/main.conf" without result. But with "nano" alone, it runs! Everything OK! Big thanks and nice day! Jun 18 09:53:12 DocScrutinizer, of course it can be. pancake no. Jun 18 09:53:25 I4U, maybe you need to be root to do it, as well try with -w flag Jun 18 09:53:33 pancake, when you say its wrong, what is it actually showing Jun 18 09:53:49 (the part about pictures being worth 1000 words Jun 18 09:54:10 a screenshot saying that there are no accounts configured Jun 18 09:54:25 lcuk: AIUI a non working fake set of buttones and other widgets Jun 18 09:54:27 or new mails in inbox, but this changes when updated Jun 18 09:54:32 so this should be removed Jun 18 09:54:57 replaced by a turtle Jun 18 09:54:58 its doing more things than the necesary ones, its confusing the user and showing outdated information Jun 18 09:54:59 Sigh! I want to upload my up to devel, and the request to upload is not coming ): Jun 18 09:55:26 ok "wrong application ui" made me think it was showing stuff from the wrong application Jun 18 09:55:30 Tells the window manager to take a screenshot of window, or to destroy the existing one. window must be mapped. Jun 18 09:55:33 its outdated and not being refreshed Jun 18 09:55:41 how is the window manager supossed to take a screenshot? Jun 18 09:55:42 I was root. But you're right: it runs with -w flag. Thanks again. Jun 18 09:55:46 honestly that's a really fool's idea to do that screenshot shit Jun 18 09:56:02 its a copy from apple Jun 18 09:56:07 yep Jun 18 09:56:09 :-((( Jun 18 09:56:10 but apple people are smart enought to do it right Jun 18 09:56:17 pancake, its possible the screenshots have been chowned to root perhaps Jun 18 09:56:26 so they arent being updated Jun 18 09:56:48 heh, so exactly what I suggested :-P Jun 18 09:57:31 Guys, anyone knows the Qt Command to check if a contact is "!gsmContact" ? Jun 18 09:58:17 * DocScrutinizer ponders to never ever update to friggin 1.2 Jun 18 09:58:37 * eitama Has PR1.2 and is very happy. Jun 18 09:59:33 I have 1.1.1 and really don't miss anything that I'd know 1.2 is delivering Jun 18 09:59:57 hi Jun 18 10:00:25 eitama, mm potentially better to ask in #qt-maemo Jun 18 10:00:31 tbh it seems 1.2 isn't fixing a single one of the things I'd like to see fixed, but introduces lots of regressions and idiotic new things Jun 18 10:00:44 I4U np =) Jun 18 10:00:51 * lcuk is very happy with pr1.2 :) Jun 18 10:01:29 lcuk: so what was it that actually improved for you with 1.2? Jun 18 10:02:14 space. lots of space :) mainly because i personally had hand in doing it Jun 18 10:02:27 *cough* Jun 18 10:04:11 DocScrutinizer, wiping off a big chunk of the reported bugs was major benefit Jun 18 10:04:17 to me it seems like space is sth I easily get as much as I ever need when I implement a decent partitioning and move all the /var and /usr shit out of NAND Jun 18 10:04:32 uhmj maybe its in ~/.cache/launch/*modest Jun 18 10:05:08 DocScrutinizer, then come up with a plan thats reproducable and maintainable and that can be retroactively fitted to all machines Jun 18 10:05:20 but alas I'm left behind with 1.1.1 now, as none of the apps will install anymore Jun 18 10:06:25 lcuk: these plans are long existing, proven to work, and only problem is next update will fsck up your system as Nokia won't adopt any of those schemes Jun 18 10:07:09 DocScrutinizer: sadly the system needs access to your theme in its play dead modes Jun 18 10:07:23 so evidentally Nokia missed another opportunity to sanitize optification BS, with 1.2 Jun 18 10:07:26 so you can't simply move /usr off of the rootfs Jun 18 10:07:44 lcuk: i was pissed off of pr1.2, cause i waited for things i didn't get =) Jun 18 10:08:31 ZogG: were they promised/ Jun 18 10:08:40 timeless_mbp yes Jun 18 10:08:41 timeless_mbp: WHAT? play_dead needs /usr and hasn't mounted eMMC? Jun 18 10:08:45 bugfixes =) Jun 18 10:08:46 lcuk, thanks (: Jun 18 10:08:57 they even were marked as fixed =) Jun 18 10:09:03 ZogG: i'm pretty sure we delivered a couple of those :) Jun 18 10:09:10 DocScrutinizer: sounds right Jun 18 10:09:24 that's errrr, so ODD Jun 18 10:09:24 DocScrutinizer: there's a message saying that your n900 is charged Jun 18 10:09:42 How can I launch from xterminal the mediaplayer ? Jun 18 10:09:44 and a message saying that you have insufficient voltage iirc Jun 18 10:09:47 timeless_mbp the play resume bug is really, but really unforgivable Jun 18 10:09:49 there's also the alarm clock Jun 18 10:09:52 What's the name of application Jun 18 10:10:09 DrIDK you can run it from desctop and than check in top the name Jun 18 10:10:24 timeless_mbp: fine, fine. But why can't you have access to eMMC partitions at that time Jun 18 10:10:25 ? Jun 18 10:11:05 DocScrutinizer: having things mounted when the battery is likely to be randomly unplugged? Jun 18 10:11:09 not a great idea Jun 18 10:11:18 and mounting it isn't cheap Jun 18 10:11:19 is the VDD voltage for eMMC switched off or what? Jun 18 10:11:30 mount can imply fsck Jun 18 10:11:39 bah, Jun 18 10:11:40 if you want to *quickly* show a message, or an alarm Jun 18 10:11:41 timeless_mbp, themes are optified by default.. Jun 18 10:11:43 mount RO Jun 18 10:11:43 you can't wait for it Jun 18 10:11:52 lcuk: which results in disasters :) Jun 18 10:12:12 nb# ? Jun 18 10:12:17 hrm Jun 18 10:12:21 dunno offhand Jun 18 10:12:25 Anyone else noticed how ridiculously slow microb auto complete for uri locations when you've visited a fair few sites :/ just had to clear browsing history to make it not stall when typing in a new location ... :( Jun 18 10:12:25 shouldn't be too hard to find Jun 18 10:12:27 * frals_ nb's lcuk Jun 18 10:12:27 yeah chmod 000 ~/.cache/launch fixes my issue Jun 18 10:12:35 we can't sanitize optification cause we screwed with themes? not a sane rationale Jun 18 10:12:55 Is it possible to open rtsp in mediaplayer ? Jun 18 10:13:04 alterego: it's known :( Jun 18 10:13:04 timeless_mbp, also, in those act dead states - doesnt the mmc get mounted for usb Jun 18 10:13:41 lcuk: it shouldn't be mounted unless there's actually power from the host and a real host Jun 18 10:13:47 and that's the fat volume Jun 18 10:14:02 if play_dead needs something from /usr then that's a elementary bug, nothing else. As /usr per definitionem is an optional directory/resource for a minimal system Jun 18 10:14:05 i don't think we would need to mount /home for that Jun 18 10:14:19 DocScrutinizer: did we say we were bug free? Jun 18 10:14:22 play dead uses X Jun 18 10:14:27 X is optional Jun 18 10:14:30 next? Jun 18 10:14:45 MFG Jun 18 10:15:08 oh cute, /usr/share/themes is a symlink to opt Jun 18 10:16:02 jon lajoie is great =) Jun 18 10:16:34 ".. and i'm pretty good in making paper plains..." Jun 18 10:16:52 the three stooges building a phone - something another vice boss of another company said about what the sw and EE development looked like. I just get a deja vu Jun 18 10:17:23 timeless_mbp, http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf#line22 Jun 18 10:17:40 i know exactly where that themes folder was done Jun 18 10:18:12 Is the xml schema for systemui.xml available? I want to add two entries for launching settings and app manager Jun 18 10:18:35 lcuk: it's also possible we changed the behavior of the system to leave /home mounted Jun 18 10:18:38 i don't remember the resolution Jun 18 10:18:58 i remember that there was a time when we had to delay 1.2 because we discovered that themes weren't working because they weren't available Jun 18 10:18:59 * lcuk nods Jun 18 10:19:05 yeah Jun 18 10:19:09 nb bugzilla isn't liking me Jun 18 10:19:19 life Jun 18 10:19:23 quicksearch=ALL+act+dead+theme <- murder on bugzilla Jun 18 10:19:52 alterego: the format is easy enough to reverse engineer Jun 18 10:19:57 do you really need a document? Jun 18 10:21:06 Well, I was wondering if there were some other extensions, I'm just interested. I know the file contains a few variations that are good. Jun 18 10:21:40 That and I don't know the settings or app manager dbus service details, if there are any. Jun 18 10:21:43 * DocScrutinizer muses about ""when the battery is likely to be randomly unplugged"" and doesn't really make a sense out of it Jun 18 10:22:17 my device insists on using the default transitions, even after copying a custom one to usr/share/hildon-desktop and restarting. Jun 18 10:22:20 any ideas? Jun 18 10:23:22 meh, tmo renders like a dog when microb is set to use large font :( Jun 18 10:24:53 anyhow, shower time Jun 18 10:28:18 honestly, at least /usr shouldn't normaly hold any open write filehandle, so what could hapen, even on the suggested "when the battery is likely to be randomly unplugged" event, that I still fail to see Jun 18 10:29:25 and in which way could it be any better to have /usr on NAND than to keep it in eMMC? where's the difference? Jun 18 10:29:58 (except claimed bandwidth diffs) Jun 18 10:30:45 I *absolutely* fail to see the rationale behind that "we can't do it, as we need themes in play_dead" Jun 18 10:32:17 DocScrutinizer, relax. really the simplest way to find out if it works is to try it and see. publish results etc Jun 18 10:32:38 ruskie did afaik Jun 18 10:33:03 do you have a link? Jun 18 10:33:21 wiki/user:ruskie I suppose Jun 18 10:33:39 ruskie: any comments? Jun 18 10:35:33 lcuk: and honestly: if it does *not* work ootb, then there's for sure something better to fix than just cling with braindead optification. The main issue though is you probably hardly find a sane upgrade path that doesn't mean "reflash rootfs AND eMMC" Jun 18 10:35:59 which basically means no OTA SSU for anybody Jun 18 10:36:15 code wrong once, suffer many Jun 18 10:36:28 Jun 18 10:39:15 the simplest tests are picking an interesting theme; setting device + sim locks, and an alarm. then power off Jun 18 10:39:39 when you turn it on (or when it turns on), how does the pin/ alarm view look Jun 18 10:40:01 or when you plug it into a charger, how does the animation for charging look (and how does the text look) Jun 18 10:40:08 not without making sure you took care to mount the needed partitions just in time Jun 18 10:40:45 anyway, those are iirc the interesting edge cases Jun 18 10:41:01 which most people did not think about when they did their initial attempts at optification Jun 18 10:41:09 err, btw: animation on plugging off device into charger? Jun 18 10:41:15 is that new in 1.2? Jun 18 10:41:37 dunno Jun 18 10:41:40 maybe it was removed? Jun 18 10:41:45 i remember we had one at one point Jun 18 10:41:48 never seen that Jun 18 10:41:51 maybe that was an n8x0 thing Jun 18 10:42:21 hmm, seems that's been the easiest of the needed "fixes" then Jun 18 10:43:19 o/ timeless_mbp Jun 18 10:43:25 timeless_mbp: howzit? Jun 18 10:44:37 honestly, I fail to see any technical reason why we couldn't use eMMC for anything that's been on NAND so far. Except of "unbearably slow" which I maybe could live with, or I'd like to live with the slowness rather Jun 18 10:44:43 if people coulsd test the zoutube in extras-testing and vote, maybe we can get the non-working zoutube in extras upgraded Jun 18 10:44:52 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/zoutube/0.2-3/ is the link Jun 18 10:45:04 DocScrutinizer: if you're willing to live w/ it Jun 18 10:45:07 then just do it ™ Jun 18 10:45:54 well the diff in look&feel of a 11MB/s vs a former 17MB/s is arguable Jun 18 10:46:36 rule of thumb is you need a 2:1 at least for user to really notice Jun 18 10:47:00 and "notice" << "unbearable" Jun 18 10:47:01 our managers are annoying Jun 18 10:47:03 they noticed it Jun 18 10:47:21 and our customers are worse Jun 18 10:47:22 they'd notice Jun 18 10:48:04 I've not managed any (read) benchmarks that show it being slower Jun 18 10:48:11 crashanddie: missing lunch Jun 18 10:48:35 timeless: I'm sure you're used to that Jun 18 10:48:59 a decent fs probably would easily compensate for any smaller bandwidth of eMMC bus Jun 18 10:49:52 Oh sweet, has someone ported flashback!!! Jun 18 10:50:19 Frackin' love that game for frack sake sulu Jun 18 10:53:52 zootube should not be in network Jun 18 10:54:00 it should be in multimedia Jun 18 10:54:11 Oh, cwappy copy, I'll have to find the game files too Can't remember if I still have those floppys Jun 18 10:54:12 please move for .4 Jun 18 10:54:32 ?? Jun 18 10:54:41 and I don't have any machine with a floppy drive :D Jun 18 10:55:40 alterego: can game data be distributed with the engine? Jun 18 10:55:56 What's flashback? (: Jun 18 10:56:04 Doubt it, I'd imagine it's still copy righted. Jun 18 10:56:27 Wasmsuch a good game, I must have played it 10 times :) Jun 18 10:56:43 timeless: I think you may mean zoutube Jun 18 10:56:56 timeless: Unless some rather unexpected app has appeared. Jun 18 10:56:56 sure Jun 18 10:57:02 :) Jun 18 10:57:26 wasn't that the URL you warned us to ever visit, SpeedEvil ? Jun 18 10:57:44 yes Jun 18 10:57:49 ^not Jun 18 10:57:56 select video quality is giving me an empty dialog Jun 18 10:58:03 I'm having trouble with booting the pre-alpha2 image on Beagleboard. Is the alpha image recommended ? Jun 18 10:58:04 Still need two more votes on my app if anyone is interested ;) Jun 18 10:58:26 SpeedEvil: yes, it was not... ? Jun 18 10:58:42 alterego: if you're listening, you'll get my boye in 7mins Jun 18 10:59:02 timeless: :D Jun 18 10:59:17 DocScrutinizer: It was the URL I warned not to ever Jun 18 10:59:35 I have two mates, neither of which can remeber their site passwords :( Useless buggers. Jun 18 10:59:51 timeless, ok i will move it in git Jun 18 11:00:41 timeless, which video did you select to get an empty dialog? Jun 18 11:00:47 alterego: It would be interesting to ping the original rights holders, and see if you could put them up in a for-pay store. (for their benegfit) Jun 18 11:01:29 SpeedEvil: strange. In German a warning negates the action you warn, I.E it implies a "don't do". You can't warn anybody to actually do something Jun 18 11:01:33 SpeedEvil: yeah, would be cool if we could do that. Jun 18 11:02:47 alterego: Problem is of course, generally, the actual current rights holder - if you can track them down - will have no cognitive investment in the game. Jun 18 11:06:21 my device insists on using the default transitions, even after copying a custom one to usr/share/hildon-desktop and restarting. Any ideas how to fix? Jun 18 11:08:32 DocScrutinizer: In english, the not is always - well - usually - explicit - it would be unusual to leave it out. Jun 18 11:08:50 SpeedEvil: thanks :-) Jun 18 11:09:35 now I know why this American guy fell off the roof :-P Jun 18 11:09:47 http://zem.fi/ttd_logic/ Using open transport tycoon deluxe to simulate digital logic circuits.... Jun 18 11:12:37 pupnik: errr o.O Jun 18 11:14:24 pupnik: I heard of a Siemens guy that coded his own text editor using excel with user defined functions - one char per cell, insert too ages when done on top of a long text :-P Jun 18 11:14:39 Has somebody here tried qtnx inside easy debian? Jun 18 11:14:50 took* Jun 18 11:15:21 DocScrutinizer: that is perverse also :) Jun 18 11:15:39 *very* Jun 18 11:16:11 oh I always assumed "perverse" was a false friend Jun 18 11:18:13 ok, I need some help Jun 18 11:18:24 I have a cheque that was deposited on my account of some 20 grand Jun 18 11:18:36 No idea where it came from, so probably a mistake Jun 18 11:18:59 It was me! Plz return. Jun 18 11:19:02 :) Jun 18 11:19:10 what do I do? Contact the bank to know what it was for? In that case they may spot the mistake and remove the monies? Jun 18 11:19:20 crashanddie: yes. Jun 18 11:19:22 But if I use the money, and they spot the money, I'm toast anyway Jun 18 11:19:27 crashanddie: indeed. Jun 18 11:19:53 is there a finder's fee in case it was a mistake? Jun 18 11:20:01 say, 18 grand? Jun 18 11:20:12 crashanddie: In theory, at least in the UK, you can take the money out, put it in another account, and if nobody claims it in 7 years, it's yours. Jun 18 11:20:16 I could use it right about now. Jun 18 11:20:26 But if you use it, that's theft. Jun 18 11:20:29 damn Jun 18 11:20:39 :/ Jun 18 11:20:52 That sort of thing rarely ends well. Jun 18 11:20:52 kamui: ? Jun 18 11:21:17 The 7 years only counts if you notify the police. Jun 18 11:21:26 The bank deposited 20 grand accidentally into my dads account, and he used it to finance a very poorly thought out notice. Jun 18 11:21:35 alterego: I don't think so - it's the time limit on debts. Jun 18 11:21:47 If the creditor has not contacted you. Jun 18 11:22:09 Please note, I am not a lawyer. If this causes you any trouble, I reserve the right to point and laugh. Jun 18 11:22:14 SpeedEvil: it still counts as lost and stolen goods. Jun 18 11:22:27 different thing entirely. Jun 18 11:23:09 And, I think in this case it's actually only 6 months if you declare it with the police. Jun 18 11:23:11 alterego: You are under no obligation to report stuff you find to the police, if the owner knows where it is. And they do - they know they can ask the bank. Jun 18 11:23:12 AIUI Jun 18 11:23:21 SpeedEvil: you do in france Jun 18 11:23:22 but - see above caveat. Jun 18 11:23:24 Sure Jun 18 11:23:33 I'd think ignoring it is a safe bet Jun 18 11:23:37 this varies lots with legislation. Jun 18 11:23:38 Heh Jun 18 11:23:42 err Jun 18 11:23:45 locality I mean Jun 18 11:23:53 SpeedEvil: in France, the law is that you find something, declare it to the police (and file a claim), and after one year and one day, it's yours. Jun 18 11:24:18 I think you should check your statement and see where it came from, for instance, do you even know it's a cheque and not a bank xfer? Jun 18 11:24:18 crashanddie: That's for physical property though - which stuff in a bank account isn't quite. Jun 18 11:24:39 this is only for physical property, so no idea for "the bank made a mistake in your favour, receive 20 grand" Jun 18 11:25:07 crashanddie: Also - on my online statement - more info pops up on the transaction after a few days Jun 18 11:25:08 crashanddie: that's why you take the money out and give it to the police ;) Jun 18 11:25:20 id put the cash in my savings account and get interest on it! Jun 18 11:25:26 crashanddie: do nothing, reap the interest :D Jun 18 11:25:26 alterego: isn't that called a bribe? :D Jun 18 11:25:34 Hahah Jun 18 11:25:40 yeah, maybe :) Jun 18 11:25:52 crashanddie: And on your way to the police station, you get robbed by a mysterious being of indeterminate race, height, gender, and number of legs. Jun 18 11:26:58 if you're just not aware it's a mistake then you can't do anything bad. Just act as if it's exctly what you expected Jun 18 11:27:11 Just closd the account and move to a countey where they don'gt have an extradition rule with your gov't :D Jun 18 11:27:35 france has extradition with nearly everyone Jun 18 11:27:51 For 2 milllion - yes - maybe - 20 million sure. Jun 18 11:28:04 You can't live off 20 grand anywhere. Jun 18 11:28:09 Well - you can. Jun 18 11:28:13 But you wouldn't want to. Jun 18 11:28:24 well, I used to live off 70 grand, and I'm 23 Jun 18 11:28:29 technically you can live with 0 Jun 18 11:28:34 err, 24 now, so yeah, no, can't live off that Jun 18 11:28:56 lcuk: I mean off the income from, as I suspect you realised. Jun 18 11:30:53 Never said live off, just have a really good long holiday for a month or two :D Jun 18 11:31:06 Ah, indeed. Jun 18 11:31:25 * SpeedEvil would blow it all on shiny test equipment! Jun 18 11:33:52 actually, I'd probably put it towards a house Jun 18 11:34:26 * SpeedEvil stabs stupid house-price inflation. Jun 18 11:34:31 Heh Jun 18 11:35:18 lcuk: speaking of nb's, check out attachment 92268 Jun 18 11:35:19 Attachment 92268 was not found or is not accessible. Jun 18 11:35:46 specifically the last couple of comments Jun 18 11:36:42 timeless_mbp, i see the attach, which nb is that on? Jun 18 11:37:13 add &action=edit Jun 18 11:38:37 right, I'm outta here, see you all later. Jun 18 11:38:41 ttyl Jun 18 11:39:03 * alterego vanishes *pof* Jun 18 11:41:06 povbot: attachment 1 Jun 18 11:41:09 crashanddie: Attachment https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1&action=edit image/png, Screenshot to illustrate the problem, see the summary text field., todo-edit.png Jun 18 11:41:26 lcuk: did you read this one: " German student created a major traffic jam in Bavaria after making a rude gesture at a group of Hell's Angels motorcycle gang members, hurling a puppy at them and then escaping on a stolen bulldozer." Jun 18 11:41:37 heh Jun 18 11:41:52 yes crashanddie ! Jun 18 11:45:44 what format is the storage card in the n900? Jun 18 11:45:54 eh? Jun 18 11:46:02 do you mean the internal memory or the removable thing? Jun 18 11:46:18 the internal is partitioned ~3 ways (swap, ext3, vfat) Jun 18 11:46:28 removable thing Jun 18 11:46:34 it should be vfat... Jun 18 11:46:50 since it isn't useful to you if you can't use it in an arbitrary camera or on an arbitrary computer Jun 18 11:46:54 (i borked it by trying to install the NITdroid) Jun 18 11:49:34 just format it from HFM context menu? Jun 18 11:50:19 from where? Jun 18 11:50:20 clever 'branding' by google to make their crap require a custom kernel... Jun 18 11:52:05 sejo: Hildon File Manager Jun 18 11:54:04 DocScrutinizer: going to install that one Jun 18 11:54:37 err, should come with every stock maemo Jun 18 11:54:56 then you can't format it Jun 18 11:55:41 DocScrutinizer: the filemanager that's on it does not show a format toption Jun 18 11:56:02 uh? Jun 18 11:56:05 strange Jun 18 11:56:09 here it does Jun 18 11:56:15 only memory card option and it says it's corrupted Jun 18 11:56:41 what is "memeory card option"? Jun 18 11:57:10 it shows me the memory usage Jun 18 11:57:14 that's it Jun 18 11:57:30 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Jun 18 11:58:31 you know the meaning of 'context menu' ? Jun 18 11:59:02 depends on the context (why does saying this feel recursive ?) Jun 18 11:59:03 DocScrutinizer51 try to be nice =)))) Jun 18 11:59:40 click and hold card icon on the left side treeview Jun 18 11:59:52 menu pops up Jun 18 11:59:59 select 'format' Jun 18 12:00:22 or you can use format c:/=)))) Jun 18 12:00:50 timeless, seems youtube changed their html again, looks like will have to push out a 0.2-4 soon Jun 18 12:01:51 DocScrutinizer: there is no card item nor a treeview Jun 18 12:02:03 only (no files/folders) message Jun 18 12:02:06 zaheerm: so you can integrate my suggestions :) Jun 18 12:02:16 timeless_mbp, yep Jun 18 12:04:58 do you know if a properly patched N900 wireless driver exist that support packet injection? Jun 18 12:06:56 sejo: here are two items: phone (=MyDocs eMMC) and card (=uSD), and both have 'format' in context menu Jun 18 12:07:15 DocScrutinizer: here there are no items at all Jun 18 12:07:17 sorry Jun 18 12:07:23 i'll reflash it Jun 18 12:07:50 so seems you borked eMMC as well as uSD Jun 18 12:08:04 reflash of rootf won't help Jun 18 12:08:16 rootfs* Jun 18 12:08:35 well I can always keep android and use that :p Jun 18 12:09:16 or install windows 7 mobile Jun 18 12:09:43 does everything works in Android? Jun 18 12:10:38 Brazza: give me a sec Jun 18 12:11:27 bleh need to redo the partition Jun 18 12:11:34 (doesn't boot correctly) Jun 18 12:11:38 I wish there was a good contact manager. twice now I had to redo my contacts.. Jun 18 12:11:56 for maemo5 Jun 18 12:12:14 Brazza: I sync mine with my zarafa server and that helps Jun 18 12:13:25 ah k.. well I pref have an offline one:) but ill try this. Better as in Vmware syncing with outlook :D Jun 18 12:13:37 howdy Jun 18 12:13:57 Brazza: it works nicely and I have everything on a mac also that syncs with the same server Jun 18 12:14:10 works like a charm Jun 18 12:14:22 I do an occasional backup, so even if I'd lose my contacts... restore&smile Jun 18 12:14:40 yeah mac :S Jun 18 12:15:12 sejo: this zafara commercial/trial? Jun 18 12:15:25 Brazza: use evolution that syncs also Jun 18 12:15:29 free version Jun 18 12:15:36 with adittional zpush (also free) Jun 18 12:16:04 s*cks even vodafone and nokia don't support the n900 in there online backup./. Jun 18 12:16:13 `/78 Jun 18 12:17:09 I still like the n900. (haven't got it more as 1.5month) Jun 18 12:17:44 can't wait to run meego with a gui.:) Jun 18 12:17:53 last time I almost bricked mine:D Jun 18 12:18:31 honestly, why? Jun 18 12:19:17 what is it meego got t make it so attractive for you - right now, or even with a halfbaked gui? Jun 18 12:19:21 I deleted the bootmenu and wanted to flash both drives Jun 18 12:20:02 * nextime sad that people respond so well to meego coming to n900 Jun 18 12:20:05 they want to feel special, and hip Jun 18 12:20:21 well I like it more as android though. Jun 18 12:20:34 maybe xause its more customisable Jun 18 12:20:51 Brazza : is less customizable android vs both maemo and meego Jun 18 12:20:58 it is just more supported actually Jun 18 12:21:13 if I'd want an andridiot phone, I'd for sure not buy a N900 Jun 18 12:21:15 bleh doesn't work Jun 18 12:21:30 DocScrutinizer: same here but still wanted to test it once Jun 18 12:21:58 anyway it might get somewhere between making one myself or die trying:D Jun 18 12:22:05 anyway, i hope ( i know it is an utopic thing ) that nokia will goes back to maemo and not switch to meego Jun 18 12:22:10 but probably i'm the only one Jun 18 12:22:13 :) Jun 18 12:22:31 in alternative, i wish meego will switch to deb packages :P Jun 18 12:23:21 btw does anyone know a app which locks the icons on the desktop? and not the whole mobile with keyb? Jun 18 12:23:31 ( to be sincere, i'm not an rpm haters, i have nothing against rpm. I just love deb. ) Jun 18 12:23:56 Brazza: how do you mean? Jun 18 12:24:26 well I had twice now when I put my phone in my pocket all icons are mixed up Jun 18 12:24:51 sounds more like a bug Jun 18 12:24:51 nextime: n900+maemo itself doesn't draw enough manufacturers, carriers, content providers and software developers Jun 18 12:25:10 pupnik: true, but is doesn't matter in my vision Jun 18 12:25:17 as i'm a debian geek Jun 18 12:25:20 Brazza: icons should only be movable after going to the desktop title menu Jun 18 12:25:25 so, i'm happy with maemo Jun 18 12:25:27 :) Jun 18 12:25:42 nextime: yes, n900 is kind of a dream come true Jun 18 12:26:07 alterego: ping Jun 18 12:26:36 sometimes i wonder if the 'partner' nokia should have courted isn't intel, but linux itself. Jun 18 12:26:51 I couldn't wait for the n8 but I like the nerdy feeling of the n900:D Jun 18 12:27:14 love to do rm -rf / some day on it Jun 18 12:28:08 Brazza: sure Jun 18 12:28:50 pupnik: the meego project is under linux foundation, thats basically as close to a partner as they get Jun 18 12:30:56 frankly, screw meego, get me some harmattan Jun 18 12:31:26 i'm intentionally conflating different levels of things there flailingmonkey :) Jun 18 12:33:47 i don't give a flying noun about deb vs rpm. just find a package manager that is faster than apt Jun 18 12:34:27 apt and yum are both slow for a phone, and maybe zypper can do better. performance is what counts Jun 18 12:34:28 flailingmonkey yes yes yes Jun 18 12:34:44 please no rescanning the database after i install an app Jun 18 12:34:47 and before Jun 18 12:34:57 flailingmonkey : i dont agree, but if this is your point, there are both ipkg and opkg from openwrt Jun 18 12:35:08 btw anyone wants some wallpapers for maemo http://brazza.eu/gallery/#/content/maemo/ (no spam) Jun 18 12:35:26 but my point isn't to be against this or the other one pkg Jun 18 12:35:31 at least one of them is not maintained Jun 18 12:35:44 is only cause i'm common to deb and i have my own repo for debian packages Jun 18 12:35:56 so, it is just a personal thing Jun 18 12:36:00 nice wallpapers there Brazza Jun 18 12:36:15 more in the / 16:10:D Jun 18 12:36:31 you have to resize them urself. Jun 18 12:37:09 theres also smart, but again performance is key Jun 18 12:37:56 nextime: then you should be more excited about (deb based) harmattan than meego :P Jun 18 12:37:58 does anyone now what the problem might be when apt-get does not find repository.maemo.org? Jun 18 12:38:14 I have tried to change nameserver Jun 18 12:38:15 sallesao: no network? :) Jun 18 12:38:24 internets works fine Jun 18 12:38:28 :) Jun 18 12:38:29 flailingmonkey : in my opinion performance isn't so important. After all you don't need to install application every minutes, you need performance when you are using apps, not when you install it Jun 18 12:39:14 nextime: the process of browsing, finding, and installing apps is very important to the usability of any system Jun 18 12:39:19 flailingmonkey : harmattan will be released? it is no clear (to me) the future in this path Jun 18 12:40:32 it will. business managers just like big reveals. but I guess since I never use Nokia Care, I don't care if they would support me Jun 18 12:41:31 timeless_mbp: weird thing is, I can go to repository.maemo.org via the browser, but I can't ping it. Jun 18 12:41:39 um Jun 18 12:41:47 ping is generally not available Jun 18 12:41:49 sallesao: ping isn't always enabled Jun 18 12:41:54 I see Jun 18 12:41:59 servers see it as a way to be attacked Jun 18 12:42:02 to pervent people from trying to flood with pings Jun 18 12:42:03 so admins tend to drop it Jun 18 12:42:11 wrong thing Jun 18 12:42:30 enable echo request type ping and maybe just limit it is the right way Jun 18 12:42:31 :) Jun 18 12:42:44 that doesn't explain why apt-get doesn't work though Jun 18 12:42:55 :( Jun 18 12:43:10 anyway, there is also hping3 that can "ping" over TCP and/or UDP Jun 18 12:43:44 time for a walk, nobody on the streets :-D Jun 18 12:49:42 do any people here also follow meego forums? Jun 18 12:50:16 the wallpapers I showed. are here to download 75+ in 1 zip http://brazza.eu/wallies.7z Jun 18 12:50:41 Yaaawwwwn Jun 18 12:50:50 DocScrutinizer: here neither. must be because we're playing ball Jun 18 12:51:03 timeless.justdave.net/stress/stress.html :) Jun 18 12:51:10 Brazza: lot of nice wallpaper ;) Jun 18 12:51:12 flailingmonkey: meego forum ? what's that ? Jun 18 12:51:23 maemo.org is just my 2nd site I visit after tweakers.net;D Jun 18 12:51:42 forum.meego.com Jun 18 12:52:15 (that was a feeble attempt at humoru) Jun 18 12:52:17 bleh can't flash it neither... device is hardware revision 2001 and that's not supported by the fw Jun 18 12:52:19 not a lot of peeps are there:D Jun 18 12:52:55 good looking ones Jun 18 12:53:15 I like the minimalistic look of it. Jun 18 12:54:24 does anyone gonna get that 2400MwAh battery for the n900? Jun 18 12:55:08 hmm Jun 18 12:55:17 confusing to have my ircshell on swedish tz Jun 18 12:55:18 flailingmonkey: ... sooo... your were saying Jun 18 12:55:48 just the a wiki page about handset ux was accidentally posted publicly on meego wiki Jun 18 12:56:05 wondered if anyone else had noticed Jun 18 12:57:45 timeless_mbp: did apple really use Richard Feynman and Albert Einstein pictures in their ads? Jun 18 12:58:02 Brazza: yes, but i forgot who Jun 18 12:58:05 no Jun 18 12:58:15 i don't think so anyway Jun 18 12:58:43 flailingmonkey there was thread about it Jun 18 12:58:54 as well why wouldn't it be public as it's opensource Jun 18 12:58:57 isn't it? Jun 18 13:00:03 because not ready for public release Jun 18 13:00:45 timeless_mbp: will that stress.html *ever* stop loading images? Jun 18 13:01:16 yes Jun 18 13:01:17 pupnik you can't get it anyway, so who cares about wiki Jun 18 13:01:31 pupnik: i think its a stress test? Jun 18 13:01:35 yeah ;) Jun 18 13:01:44 pupnik, give me an url Jun 18 13:01:48 i want to stress out Jun 18 13:02:03 14:51 < timeless_mbp> timeless.justdave.net/stress/stress.html :) Jun 18 13:02:44 I will say that, its better to have involvement, but since thats not a current option, I want them to finish and hand over what they consider "ready" Jun 18 13:03:53 is there something to make the screen blanking stop? Jun 18 13:03:59 yes Jun 18 13:04:02 and to disable that auto dim crap? Jun 18 13:04:04 iirc mce.ini can control it Jun 18 13:04:16 there's no ui for it because the ui team refused to allow it Jun 18 13:04:23 blah Jun 18 13:04:31 that sucks Jun 18 13:04:35 Hooray for UI teams! Jun 18 13:04:41 Also: managers! Jun 18 13:04:46 pupnik, stress does stop eventually :D Jun 18 13:04:47 but the engineers wanted it, hence mce accepts it :) Jun 18 13:05:01 i remember m4 had an addon type app for it Jun 18 13:05:10 actually, the n900 is one of very few devices which survives stress Jun 18 13:05:28 * timeless_mbp has killed a number of devices of various shapes and sizes (and platforms) with it Jun 18 13:05:46 timeless_mbp: so no disabling the dimming and no turning off blanking in the ui at all huh? Jun 18 13:05:57 and no app that does it? :) Jun 18 13:05:58 well you could watch a movie on a loop Jun 18 13:06:09 the movie player obviously turns off blanking while it's playing a movie :) Jun 18 13:06:10 timeless_mbp: next time, warn us Jun 18 13:06:16 haha Jun 18 13:06:30 blanking can be turned off with charging Jun 18 13:06:34 iirc flash does too when it's playing a movie Jun 18 13:06:41 oh yeah, you can plug it in... Jun 18 13:06:46 :) Jun 18 13:06:57 that's not always convenient... Jun 18 13:07:03 no. not really Jun 18 13:07:10 there's a command you can use from xterminal ... Jun 18 13:07:15 i think the dimming is more annoying Jun 18 13:07:21 its how I use it at my desk Jun 18 13:07:26 basically mce needs a heartbeat to prevent dimming Jun 18 13:07:30 the light sensor thing Jun 18 13:07:31 so if you give it one.. Jun 18 13:07:43 run a cron? Jun 18 13:07:45 heh Jun 18 13:07:57 ah yes, the screen brightness responding to ambient light Jun 18 13:08:06 flailingmonkey: yes Jun 18 13:08:14 that is an irritating feature Jun 18 13:08:48 "feature" Jun 18 13:09:06 Stskeeps said there was somewhere in config to turn it off. i didnt see it Jun 18 13:09:06 pupnik it has no end Jun 18 13:09:39 maybe "power saving mode" Jun 18 13:09:40 ? Jun 18 13:10:25 Someone help me: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56525 Jun 18 13:11:29 th3hate: i never try the transitions.ini things but check if they are other file Jun 18 13:11:31 do a find Jun 18 13:11:38 sudo gainroot Jun 18 13:11:52 find / -name "transitions.ini" Jun 18 13:12:00 ok will try now Jun 18 13:12:28 Macer: yes, you can disable the brightness stuff from the ui Jun 18 13:12:46 and if you speak English, you can use my locales so that you can understand your n900 Jun 18 13:13:40 found another file in: opt/usr/share/themes/blackplastictheme-themedir/transitions.ini Jun 18 13:14:22 should i delete it? Jun 18 13:14:29 timeless_mbp: ? Jun 18 13:14:30 Macer: xchat has option to disable dimming. simple brightness applet has, as well Jun 18 13:14:57 DocScrutinizer: i think power saving in the config is the dimming Jun 18 13:15:01 yes? Jun 18 13:15:44 hrm, yeah, i didn't fix the translation of "Power saving mode" Jun 18 13:15:59 you seriously made a locale? Jun 18 13:16:02 :) Jun 18 13:17:54 DocScrutinizer: ah. you meant blanking? Jun 18 13:18:03 awesome. got it. thanks Jun 18 13:18:47 crap Jun 18 13:18:56 it is still auto dimming Jun 18 13:20:09 yes Jun 18 13:24:20 timeless_mbp: so you put in better/more accurate descriptions of what does what? Jun 18 13:24:57 yep Jun 18 13:25:25 where can I try this out Jun 18 13:27:07 Macer: no dimming of any kind here, when simplebrightness is set to keep on display Jun 18 13:27:33 DocScrutinizer: I think the dynamic brightness may still kick in. Jun 18 13:27:49 I hope that's not yet another regression of 1.2 Jun 18 13:27:53 DocScrutinizer: that is - on screens with no white - the backlight cranks down, and the screen goes to white Jun 18 13:28:16 (which has unfortunate issues in the sun using it in transflective mode) Jun 18 13:28:26 (At least I think that's what I was seeing) Jun 18 13:29:00 sounds weird to me SpeedEvil Jun 18 13:29:00 SpeedEvil: yes, that for sure Jun 18 13:29:22 flailingmonkey: In principle with video content - it can save a fair amount of power. Jun 18 13:29:52 flailingmonkey: For example - in any slightly dim scene - with the backlight at half of nominal - that can save a _lot_ of power. Jun 18 13:30:08 i see what you mean. Jun 18 13:30:37 weird, my ALS doesn't kick in Jun 18 13:30:49 I've not seen it in a consistent manner Jun 18 13:34:53 heya VDVsx Jun 18 13:35:05 Now that's really nasty. Seems simple brightness app has a new behaviour to adjust screen backlight to ALS only if you have <100% setting Jun 18 13:35:28 heya VDVsx x2 Jun 18 13:36:13 DocScrutinizer51, ALS? Jun 18 13:36:20 Ambient? Jun 18 13:36:22 ambient light Jun 18 13:36:27 Ah Jun 18 13:37:14 so in bright sun you set to 100 and then you need to manually dim when ambiet goes low Jun 18 13:37:17 RST: hey :) Jun 18 13:38:13 actually it's nice to learn we can disable ALS, but honestly simple brightness is way too simple Jun 18 13:38:42 ... Jun 18 13:38:55 it'd need at least 2 dials, maybe 3 Jun 18 13:39:41 minimum brightness, maximum, and ALS multiplicator Jun 18 13:39:55 aka gamma Jun 18 13:45:28 does hildon know about alpha? (transparent "windows") Jun 18 13:45:39 to some extent Jun 18 13:45:46 widgets are actually windows Jun 18 13:46:48 yeah, but could I start a app that shows desktop or whatever as background? Jun 18 13:47:20 probably not refreshing, ok Jun 18 13:48:00 should work in theory because you can do live wallpapers which is pretty much that? (ie xsnow) Jun 18 13:48:55 otoh that is different from just setting the background transparent i assume Jun 18 13:49:34 re zoutube... Jun 18 13:49:40 i couldn't get it to really work :( Jun 18 13:50:01 frals_: whatever, it sounds like what I need. just questionable if it could work for arbitrary background or just desktop Jun 18 13:50:34 oh, and "about" in zoutube claims it's 0.1 even though the package claims 0.2-3 Jun 18 13:50:48 if you're going to have an about, please make the about accurate :) Jun 18 13:50:58 otherwise, be a proper maemo app and don't have one :) Jun 18 13:51:51 I'm pondering about a smart brightness app that allows to look at the 'main' app while sliders for adjusting backlight brightness are almost invisible on the sides of screen Jun 18 13:52:20 timeless_mbp, doesn't Zoutube have a product? Jun 18 13:52:20 who was it that adamently refused to have an About window or have version output at all Jun 18 13:52:27 * DocScrutinizer51 *hates* apps without about Jun 18 13:52:28 GAN900: dunno :) Jun 18 13:54:01 flailingmonkey: alarmed? Jun 18 13:55:51 sounds right. i think the dev was fighting with you about that? Jun 18 13:56:57 DocScrutinizer51: what exactly led you to mess up your apt db so badly? :P Jun 18 13:57:35 yeah, had a real dispute with Shapeshifter about it :-P Jun 18 13:57:38 gah dentists again Jun 18 13:57:43 timeless_mbp, clearly you should figure that out. Jun 18 13:57:52 lcukn900, they have those in the UK? :P Jun 18 13:58:13 flailingmonkey: I didn't. I just was plaing advocatus diaboli Jun 18 13:58:46 GAN900: no, they keep trying to invade the UK though Jun 18 13:58:59 2g needs improving Jun 18 13:59:25 DocScrutinizer51: ah very well. he was just being lazy anyway Jun 18 13:59:36 XD Jun 18 14:01:30 it's really not that hard to get the compile date into the --help or --version output, automatically. Code once and forget Jun 18 14:02:25 he just didn't know how to and assumed it couldn't be done Jun 18 14:03:15 hi, can someone explain to me how can i update to PR 1.2 by air Jun 18 14:03:36 rodald, launch app manager -> updated Jun 18 14:03:39 updates Jun 18 14:04:18 but it tells me that i have to conect to a PC and when i try with the PC Suite it gives me an error Jun 18 14:04:39 rodald, you probably have some software that has dependency problems Jun 18 14:04:54 there was a list of problematic ones on tmo.. let me see if I could find it for you Jun 18 14:04:57 and what can i do in that case? Jun 18 14:05:06 thank you Jun 18 14:05:11 remove problem programs and run update again Jun 18 14:05:19 usually you can update OTA after uninstalling certain apps. HAM really should report specific conflicts Jun 18 14:05:52 certain games, such as GLtron and openarena are in that list Jun 18 14:06:31 tux racer was one Jun 18 14:06:35 brain party another Jun 18 14:06:44 HAM does report conflicts if you actually click details or whatever Jun 18 14:06:46 but I'll try to find complete list :) Jun 18 14:06:47 (did for me anyway) Jun 18 14:06:54 have them both Jun 18 14:06:55 oh I see. it is trying to run apt, apt errors but HAM doesn't actually read what errors happened Jun 18 14:07:18 rodald, start by removing those :) they certainly will cause you trouble Jun 18 14:07:30 hi Jun 18 14:07:39 ah ok let me try Jun 18 14:07:41 guys - is there some tiny c compiler for maemo? Jun 18 14:07:43 HAM is to be hated. Jun 18 14:07:46 (something like tcc) Jun 18 14:07:48 really? it should tell people to check that conflict list instead of suggesting reflash Jun 18 14:08:02 for ondevice c devel Jun 18 14:08:22 supertramp: i'd look in extras-devel I guess, but don't know off hand Jun 18 14:09:25 frals_: you saw that during PR1.2 update? I only see that for package installs Jun 18 14:10:08 there is only gcc-4.2-base Jun 18 14:10:13 and gcc is not *tiny* :} Jun 18 14:10:55 i think your definition of tiny is from 19 century Jun 18 14:11:06 agreed. compiling tcc might not be a huge amount of work, but the people here will certainly help Jun 18 14:11:36 i've already ran tcc on my N900 :) Jun 18 14:12:04 but is needs quite a bit of work Jun 18 14:12:14 b-man: how? :) I'm unable to build it in the scatchbox Jun 18 14:12:17 "I statically recompiled the original DOS executable (MAIN.EXE) into GP2X [arm] executable" Jun 18 14:12:37 pupnik: lol Jun 18 14:12:58 supertramp: i compiled it natively on my device Jun 18 14:13:04 pupnik: .... Jun 18 14:13:09 flailingmonkey: it's true Jun 18 14:13:30 recompiled a DOS game for arm/linux and hacked it to work Jun 18 14:13:50 http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/39437-albion/ Jun 18 14:14:09 now available for n900 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52226 Jun 18 14:14:40 insanity Jun 18 14:14:51 congrats Jun 18 14:15:04 i didn't do it, a smart person (m-ht) did Jun 18 14:17:41 i just read it. I don't even understand how he managed it Jun 18 14:18:04 * DocScrutinizer51 suggests doing a backup *prior* to removing conflicting apps to enable SSU. Then after upgrade to new FW version you simply restore to get back all the apps you uminstalled prior to upgrade Jun 18 14:22:56 Hi, all :-) Jun 18 14:22:57 ok, no cookie from the bank. Apparently it was some temporary funds transfer from my old company for tax purposes, so the money will be gone by midnight :( Jun 18 14:23:40 crashanddie: tztzzz. You really should have done a money transfer *immediately* Jun 18 14:24:01 well no, because that I would have had a direct debit of 20 grand with no funds, imagine the fine on that Jun 18 14:24:26 crashanddie: ""ooops sorry, thought it was the credit of a friend that I'm waiting for since 18 months" Jun 18 14:24:38 sorry for asking the same again and again. Anyone knows how to contact to debmaster? I'd like to delete a remaining queue of extras auto builder... Jun 18 14:24:54 DocScrutinizer: "oops" doesn't work in the world of banks Jun 18 14:25:00 lol Jun 18 14:25:02 X-Fade: can you help kenya888 out? Jun 18 14:25:31 yeah, those suckers Jun 18 14:26:04 mine froze my account and I'm waiting for 3 days now for them to correct that stuff. No money for the weekend it seems Jun 18 14:26:38 do you have money on your account? Jun 18 14:26:39 Doc too a week off without dropping a notice, so I run short of meds mid of next week Jun 18 14:26:53 Isn't life a joy? Jun 18 14:26:58 because of the queue, build process don't start even if i upload the newer src package... Jun 18 14:26:58 took* Jun 18 14:27:02 DocScrutinizer: do you have funds on your account? Jun 18 14:27:20 I have some few hundered bucks credit Jun 18 14:27:28 crashanddie, thanks for pay attention me :-) Jun 18 14:27:37 np Jun 18 14:27:51 kenya888: X-Fade is who you want to talk to Jun 18 14:28:18 kenya888: X-Fade or failing him, jeremiah foster Jun 18 14:28:33 kenya888: I'm PM'ing you his email address Jun 18 14:28:39 don't think jeremiah's still around Jun 18 14:29:15 ah, true Jun 18 14:29:40 kenya888: don't contact jeremiah then :) Jun 18 14:29:44 and in the world of banks, when the error gets noticed they'll just take the amount out of any of your accounts. the bank never gets screwed :P Jun 18 14:30:08 flailingmonkey, thx!! Jun 18 14:30:16 crashanddie, thx!! Jun 18 14:30:57 OK, I understand feremiah have already retired to this job.. X-Fade is the correct person one. Jun 18 14:32:08 seems everybody's having a party, err metings today. So maybe hard to contact X-Fade Jun 18 14:32:45 thx guys Jun 18 14:32:47 maybe they are all getting yelled at for not being secretive enough :P Jun 18 14:33:26 DocScrutinizer, oh... the only way is waiting for him on this chatroom...:-P Jun 18 14:33:48 yeah, probably Jun 18 14:37:08 kenya888: or you can drop him an email, but IRC is usually more effective Jun 18 14:39:33 crashanddie, i see, I'll try log in to IRC as frequently as possible... All if you remember me and met him on IRC, plz tell him there is a man who want to delete build queue of fremantle auto builder...:-) Jun 18 14:41:02 what packages, kenya888? Jun 18 14:41:17 ferenc also might be able to help you aswell. Jun 18 14:41:18 you don't want to delete the whole build queue? Jun 18 14:41:25 crashanddie, it is ibus. Jun 18 14:41:34 s/also/ Jun 18 14:41:35 Ibus 1.3.4-2maemo4 Jun 18 14:42:13 you can see the newer src packages have been already uploaded to auto build from this page... https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ Jun 18 14:42:29 X-Fade: as kenya888 is trying to ask, can you delete the build queue for ibus 1.3.4-2maemo4? Thanks Jun 18 14:42:49 crashanddie, thx:-) Jun 18 14:44:46 ~seen X-Fade Jun 18 14:44:52 x-fade is currently on #maemo (1d 5h 45m 15s) #meego (1d 5h 45m 15s), last said: 'Saviq: Only 1.10 as max.'. Jun 18 14:45:27 damn, thought there's an idle time Jun 18 14:47:31 Oh... Ok waiting for response from him for a while...:-) Jun 18 14:51:30 GAN900: awake? Jun 18 14:51:47 * Stskeeps yawns Jun 18 14:52:07 Stskeeps: meeting finished? Jun 18 14:52:27 well, i'm finished after a long week Jun 18 14:52:52 ooh, it's Friday. Indeed Jun 18 14:52:56 yay watching the slo:usa match on the n900 Jun 18 14:53:10 ruskie: ola! Jun 18 14:53:15 * ruskie is happy that it's 2:0 now Jun 18 14:53:22 how ruskie? Jun 18 14:53:40 national tv has a flash streammmm Jun 18 14:53:40 ruskie: you tried to have /opt or /usr partition on eMMC once? Jun 18 14:53:49 DocScrutinizer, both Jun 18 14:53:55 still have /opt Jun 18 14:53:56 results? Jun 18 14:54:02 /usr is a nogo Jun 18 14:54:08 why? Jun 18 14:54:37 relies on things there at early boot Jun 18 14:55:01 just put /usr/bin on rootfs Jun 18 14:55:05 hmm, so they messed it up. Things needed for boot are a nogo in /usr Jun 18 14:55:14 sadly yeah Jun 18 14:55:19 libs and bins Jun 18 14:55:36 that's the *whole* meaning of /usr : "not needed for boot" Jun 18 14:55:40 nothing else Jun 18 14:55:55 so now I have /home /opt and MyDocs Jun 18 14:55:57 noobs Jun 18 14:56:28 there are very clear definitions for directory purposes too Jun 18 14:56:48 crashanddie: no. Move the things that conflict to where they belong. /bin & /sbin Jun 18 14:56:51 sadly maemo ignores them Jun 18 14:56:58 and /lib Jun 18 14:57:08 yep, and /lib Jun 18 14:57:14 vs /usr/lib Jun 18 14:57:43 * DocScrutinizer wonders what Nokia thought was the meanng of /usr anyway Jun 18 14:57:53 no clue Jun 18 14:58:10 Stskeeps, is meego sidetracking this issue by using flat file system or by actually fixing and ensuring components from /usr arent needed Jun 18 14:58:11 but FHS is rather clear on ti Jun 18 14:58:33 * ruskie hopes we win the match Jun 18 14:58:39 ruskie: since 1972 Jun 18 14:58:50 ? Jun 18 14:58:58 FHS clear on it Jun 18 14:59:04 ahh Jun 18 14:59:16 how did germany lose Jun 18 14:59:16 :o Jun 18 14:59:25 epically Jun 18 14:59:36 lcuk: no clue, but a big / sounds like an idea.. Jun 18 14:59:51 not ideal tho Jun 18 14:59:56 should be planned to cope without one Jun 18 15:00:05 yup Jun 18 15:00:49 suggestion: get an *old* version of a good unix administrator's handbook. like <1990 Jun 18 15:01:03 i have one from 1984 Jun 18 15:01:03 :P Jun 18 15:01:05 DocScrutinizer, yes, what's up? Jun 18 15:01:06 there you'll read how to set up a linux/unix correctly Jun 18 15:01:15 DocScrutinizer, why get a book, you are an old unix administrator Jun 18 15:01:17 GAN900: news from qgil? Jun 18 15:01:42 * ruskie goes back to watching the traffic Jun 18 15:01:44 DocScrutinizer, none. :/ Jun 18 15:01:51 GAN900: k, thanks Jun 18 15:02:07 DocScrutinizer, the N900 is a lie! Jun 18 15:02:10 Or something. Jun 18 15:02:22 hehehehe Jun 18 15:02:48 DocScrutinizer: your favorite component is going to be even more prominent Jun 18 15:03:00 how so? Jun 18 15:03:36 flailingmonkey: please elaborate, or toss a pointer Jun 18 15:03:38 guidelines suggest that if an app makes any files it should register in tracker and use its db to store the files Jun 18 15:03:56 for "some upcoming release" Jun 18 15:04:03 WTF?! Jun 18 15:04:29 * flailingmonkey admits to nothing Jun 18 15:04:30 * DocScrutinizer feels like this is THE moment for a walk and afk Jun 18 15:04:46 cya, #maemo Jun 18 15:04:48 Haha Jun 18 15:05:04 lmao Jun 18 15:05:51 the us scored :o Jun 18 15:05:53 all files get tags too Jun 18 15:06:09 ohwhyme, really? i thought green wasnt picked for their squad today? Jun 18 15:06:13 Woo! USA! USA! Jun 18 15:06:23 * DocScrutinizer thinks about how Nokia is going to patch scp, sftp, and even mass storage, to fulfill that requirement. Insane. LMFAO Jun 18 15:06:52 * GAN900 remembers he doesn't care about soccer. Jun 18 15:07:19 DocScrutinizer: global searrrrch Jun 18 15:07:20 i just took a call from soccer to say it doesn't care about you either. it also says BBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Jun 18 15:07:24 * DocScrutinizer now knows for sure some dudes at Nokia are out of their minds Jun 18 15:07:32 lcuk: ahahahaha Jun 18 15:07:36 anybody have a good transition.ini file that can share ? Jun 18 15:07:48 E0x, the default one is quite good Jun 18 15:07:57 i looking make my n900 feel more fast Jun 18 15:08:12 transition needs gui config with load/save Jun 18 15:08:26 i wanna respray my 900 Jun 18 15:08:39 they are reducing the blur effects for speed Jun 18 15:08:52 after seeing Myrtti and her pretty covers on other hardware Jun 18 15:08:53 lcuk: do ti Jun 18 15:08:56 do it* Jun 18 15:09:22 just the bezel would do me i think Jun 18 15:09:29 so i can tell my devices apart Jun 18 15:10:00 DocScrutinizer: this gets even better! this seems to imply that you don't get any filesystem hierarchy (like dirs) at all. just tags Jun 18 15:10:13 yes Jun 18 15:10:25 Nokia just invented the flat shadow fs Jun 18 15:10:37 for quite unclear purpose Jun 18 15:10:49 way of the futuuuure Jun 18 15:11:03 I'm just going to call it futbol from now on. Jun 18 15:11:08 sorry, feel like puking Jun 18 15:11:10 so cya Jun 18 15:12:02 Coincidentally - /me has been started watching babylon 5. Jun 18 15:12:09 (WRT shadow filesystems) Jun 18 15:12:12 looks like cuteexplorer will have new life on meego Jun 18 15:12:25 hahahaha, nice one Jun 18 15:12:48 cuteexplorer is nice. Jun 18 15:12:58 I question the 'cut/copy' functionality though Jun 18 15:13:21 its a good start Jun 18 15:13:56 also - it should be possible to add a shortcut to /foo on the desktop Jun 18 15:16:50 * DocScrutinizer wanders off singing "I'm killing Kerry Beagle, kill kill kill. And then I'm killing tracker, kill kill kill..." Jun 18 15:20:15 i wonder how it will handle being exported over USB (connected to laptop) Jun 18 15:21:26 It won't Jun 18 15:21:39 the filesystem is completely unmounted when used as mass storage Jun 18 15:21:44 It pretty much has to be Jun 18 15:23:25 I meant, how it will show up on the laptop, if there isn't any directory structure (since you are just using tags) Jun 18 15:24:03 a broad directory hierarchy, with a subdir for each tag. Jun 18 15:24:10 recursively of course. Jun 18 15:25:52 lcuk: Respraying with paints that will stick is hard. Jun 18 15:26:04 lcuk: you could get a mugen battery, for one. Jun 18 15:26:20 SpeedEvil, sure, but cares seem to cope with spraying Jun 18 15:26:23 cars Jun 18 15:26:33 what would a mugen help? Jun 18 15:26:44 you could sand it down Jun 18 15:26:47 lcuk: If n900 is hugely thick - it's device B. Jun 18 15:27:03 SpeedEvil, what about a/c/d tho? Jun 18 15:27:15 lcuk: Cars are not scraped as much - in general as phones. Jun 18 15:27:30 lcuk: plus - metal can be a better substrate for paint. Jun 18 15:27:37 And it can be baked on harder. Jun 18 15:27:45 GAN900: Jun 18 15:27:45 the bezel is metal afaik Jun 18 15:27:55 "automatically adjust brightness" or "automatically adjust brightness levels"? Jun 18 15:27:57 flailingmonkey, that would be a given on the bezel Jun 18 15:28:03 the latter actually does fit... Jun 18 15:28:30 lcuk: Ihmm - maybe Jun 18 15:28:47 what is automatically adjusting based on Jun 18 15:29:11 doesn't matter :) Jun 18 15:29:25 it's a checkable widget not a help system Jun 18 15:29:40 if you want to know what it does, you can: google, ask someone, or experiment Jun 18 15:30:50 timeless_mbp, first one. Jun 18 15:30:52 adjusts brightness based on your blood alcohol levels Jun 18 15:31:09 GAN900: ok Jun 18 15:33:12 cool no need reboot when you change the transition.init file Jun 18 15:35:07 depends on what transistion you change Jun 18 15:35:57 E0x, are you using the transitions editor Jun 18 15:36:01 no Jun 18 15:36:12 some require a hildon restart Jun 18 15:36:16 editing the transition.ini file directly Jun 18 15:36:28 hardcore Jun 18 15:36:44 i just don't want add extra-testing repo Jun 18 15:36:51 i am stick with extra only Jun 18 15:36:51 the editor is not very flexible Jun 18 15:37:10 lol - so you gainroot and go fscking with system files :D Jun 18 15:37:42 lcuk: yes that is righ Jun 18 15:38:40 E0x, if you wanted to be uber god - you should attempt to do everything without installing from any repository Jun 18 15:38:57 you say that i don't say that Jun 18 15:39:08 i just say i am stick Jun 18 15:39:37 not because i am feel that i am uber god or something is just because take more long time and BW when i refresh Jun 18 15:39:42 it Jun 18 15:39:56 if i want something of extra-testing i maybe will download the .deb Jun 18 15:40:01 and install it manually Jun 18 15:40:33 ( i don't feel like i need give you a explanation but the it is ) Jun 18 15:43:03 E0x, chill! i was only poking fun Jun 18 15:44:12 don't worry i and fine that don't bother me at all Jun 18 15:44:33 like we say here : mas claridad , mas amistad Jun 18 15:50:24 heeeeelp please my deviced just died, i was uninstalling all the programs to upgrade to PR1.2, try to uninstal a kernel called Enhaced Linux Kernel for power users, it showed couldnt uninstal because couldnt install nokia kernel and then it rebooted and now when i try to turn it on it just gives me the nokia logo then the withe dots, and the screen turns black and it shuts down, it keeps the blue light on wile it turns off Jun 18 15:51:17 rodald: you already did a backup ? Jun 18 15:51:19 of you data ? Jun 18 15:51:26 yes Jun 18 15:51:33 just do the reflash process Jun 18 15:51:43 how do i do that? Jun 18 15:52:14 download the image http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Jun 18 15:52:17 from there Jun 18 15:52:33 when say product id need put you imei Jun 18 15:52:48 you can find in attach to the box Jun 18 15:52:51 of you n900 Jun 18 15:53:02 or inside it Jun 18 15:53:08 ~flashing Jun 18 15:53:13 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jun 18 15:53:15 but how do i download it to the phoe if i cant even turn it on Jun 18 15:53:26 rodald: download in in the computer Jun 18 15:53:34 the reflash is via USB Jun 18 15:53:38 read the link Jun 18 15:53:47 ok thank you Jun 18 15:56:08 rofl, US tied, by bullshit Jun 18 15:57:37 ok im in a page that shows me files, size,, brief description,and note what do i do now? Jun 18 16:00:38 need download a vanilla one Jun 18 16:00:49 and EMMC one Jun 18 16:01:04 and they need match the version of course Jun 18 16:01:11 errr Jun 18 16:01:20 hmm.... they just merged a troll thread with the PXS4ALL Maemo Edition theread... :P Jun 18 16:01:47 rodald: sorry a MR0 one and VANILLA_EMMC one Jun 18 16:03:02 can i use this one RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, its this the vanilla? Jun 18 16:04:23 example i flash my with two: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Jun 18 16:05:10 rodald: just look for the lasted version of both Jun 18 16:05:34 any knows if there is the uber twitter app like gwibber comp. with maemo? Jun 18 16:07:05 rodald: no private Jun 18 16:07:12 just follow the link Jun 18 16:07:22 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jun 18 16:07:59 ok thank you ill try it Jun 18 16:10:02 rodald: read carefull Jun 18 16:14:26 anyone tried the new ovi suite? Jun 18 16:16:54 rodald: you don't need to flash eMMC Jun 18 16:18:22 rodald: you don't need to flash eMMC Jun 18 16:18:24 just download the COMBINED_10.2010 Jun 18 16:19:41 hmm, he's gone Jun 18 16:45:05 DocScrutinizer51: you're still on 1.1.1 right? Jun 18 16:49:52 Hello, I'm trying to run my Qt app on my N900, when compiling my Qt project, should I be using FREMANTLE_ARMEL or FREMANTLE_X86 ? Whats the difference? Jun 18 16:50:18 sorry to mention, compiling in scratchbox Jun 18 16:50:29 s/to/forgot to :P Jun 18 16:51:01 A new bill in the US Senate would, if passed, create a "kill switch," allowing for the government to shut down or control parts of the internet. Jun 18 16:51:19 Shaan7: the n900 is armel Jun 18 16:51:19 * RST38h is so tired of satanic laughter that he resorts to evil snickering now Jun 18 16:51:29 the x86 bit is for doing testing on a normal pc Jun 18 16:51:34 w/o emulation (of the cpu) Jun 18 16:51:53 * timeless_mbp leaves Jun 18 16:52:09 RST38h, but it's about hope and new beginnings . . . and hope! Jun 18 16:52:10 timeless_mbp: ok, so If I build a project on X86, it won't work on the device, I've to build it on armel, right ? Jun 18 16:52:12 RST38h: i believe it was supposed to be scoped to gov controlled parts Jun 18 16:52:18 right. Jun 18 16:52:30 timeless_mbp: thanks :) Jun 18 16:52:43 * Milhouse thinks the US government tests their technology on the maemo.org domain... Jun 18 16:53:04 GAN900: Obviously. I definitely hope to see this antiutopia to its logical conclusion. Jun 18 16:53:47 Onto a more serious subject, USA robbed in the World Cup by the way - shocking referee decision :( Jun 18 16:53:56 wow. meego went with using bugzilla for all feature requests Jun 18 16:54:00 Next: Indentured servitude for people unable to pay out their debts. Jun 18 16:54:16 that was total bullcrap call Jun 18 16:54:30 mm? Jun 18 16:54:34 (is that economically desirable btw?) Jun 18 16:54:55 sorry, i meant in the slo:usa game Jun 18 16:54:55 flailing: what is wrong with bugzilla? Jun 18 16:55:20 http://bugs.meego.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=3211&hide_resolved=1 Jun 18 16:55:36 flailingmonkey: exciting though, for a neutral :) Jun 18 16:56:22 Stskeeps: oo, shiny Jun 18 16:56:45 OT, but is anyone planning on producing a MeeGo version for Joggler? Jun 18 16:56:59 what is joggler? Jun 18 16:57:09 Milhouse: already made, but waiting for EMGD release in july Jun 18 16:57:18 RST38h: by making a Product for the requests, developers don't need to get spammed about feature request arguments. thats why it will be ok :) Jun 18 16:57:20 emgd? Jun 18 16:57:22 http://gpsobsessed.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/o2-joggler-tablet.jpg Jun 18 16:57:51 Stskeeps - excellent, cheers fella, looking forward to it :) Jun 18 16:58:10 it's like my 3rd priority project, after meego on n900, n8x0 Jun 18 16:58:10 :P Jun 18 16:58:22 Would be really sweet to have a properly working OS on the thing, bought two just for this purpose! Jun 18 16:58:57 Endometrial Glandular Dysplasia (EmGD) ?? Jun 18 16:59:06 RST38h: see that link, it's an Intel Atom (1.3Ghz I think) based 800x480 (or maybe 800x400) touchscreen device. GMA500 graphics. Jun 18 17:00:00 .. capactive, too Jun 18 17:00:06 Ideal little x86 dev/test box for MeeGo handheld - and only 50 each in the UK. Jun 18 17:00:22 Milhouse: is that the O2 stuff? Jun 18 17:00:45 Stskeeps - yep, although I can't stand capacitive, am I the only person who uses the back of his finger nail to touch the screen, needless to say this doesn't work on capacitive screens... Jun 18 17:00:45 EMGd - electromyographic activity of the diaphragm?? Jun 18 17:01:06 crashanddie: yep, O2 Joggler (based on the OpenPeak tablet) Jun 18 17:01:06 no milhouse you arent the only person Jun 18 17:01:07 lcuk: embedded graphics drivers Jun 18 17:01:26 that helps, ta Jun 18 17:01:42 someone already has meego on joggler tho dont they Jun 18 17:01:48 * lcuk seems to recall it being demoed Jun 18 17:02:04 Milhouse: there were limited stocks available at 50 - I think it's back up to 100 Jun 18 17:02:50 resistive multi touch is what I yern for. then pressure sensitivity like wacom Jun 18 17:03:11 multi layer should suffice for that Jun 18 17:03:12 SpeedEvil: Possibly, I bought mine when they first went on sale at 50, then they went back up to 100 then I believe O2 did a second round at 50... no idea what O2 are up to, I got the impression they were trying to shift all their stock as they were selling them so cheap. Everyone I knew bought them mainly to put something other than the O2 software on them! Jun 18 17:03:23 capacitive with a resistive layer underneath Jun 18 17:03:33 Milhouse: jogglerhacks.blogspot.com :P Jun 18 17:03:42 like a sandwich made of awesome Jun 18 17:03:43 ta :) Jun 18 17:03:52 bookmarked :) Jun 18 17:03:59 and jogglerwiki.info but it's down temporarily Jun 18 17:04:25 I did try Ubuntu, and Android but neither were very usable - interesting but not usable. Jun 18 17:04:51 that dvb-t demo is cool though! Jun 18 17:04:54 Yo, Milhouse. Jun 18 17:05:02 hi general Jun 18 17:06:20 flailingmonkey, then you want Stantum Jun 18 17:06:41 Milhouse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXWOjZQ8jVE Jun 18 17:06:45 We have a long tradition of bad ref decisions in US sports, so it's OK. :P Jun 18 17:07:01 netbook ux though Jun 18 17:07:05 * GAN900 thinks the MLB is out to keep the Rays out of first place this season. Jun 18 17:07:46 Yeah, really looking forward to the handheld UX - want to use my Joggler as an alpha test unit before putting MeeGo on my N900! Jun 18 17:07:55 * flailingmonkey thinks GAN900 is probably right :P Jun 18 17:09:12 stantum would be cool, but I wonder if phones are going to be where that tech debuts. if used solidly it could be a huge draw Jun 18 17:10:00 Sadly resistive has such a bad rep with the tech bogs such as engadget... Jun 18 17:10:21 Yeah Jun 18 17:10:27 and people are stupid Jun 18 17:10:34 and RDFs are super effective Jun 18 17:10:50 ~RDF Jun 18 17:10:51 i heard rdf is Reality Distortion Field, the device Steve Jobs uses to make apple products look more shiny than they really are Jun 18 17:10:59 love it Jun 18 17:11:04 Would love something like the Stantum tech but I think Nokia have caved into the pressure and are going capacitive because it's what is perceived to be better although it has all sorts of drawbacks (like not working with the back of my fingers) Jun 18 17:11:12 Milhouse, I was half tempted to order the iPhone 4 with that tasy Cortex A9 and that IPS 960x640 display. Jun 18 17:11:18 Yeah Jun 18 17:11:27 Nokia is a stupid company Jun 18 17:11:52 But capacitive and iOS kill it for me Jun 18 17:12:05 I think stantum would be nice on something like N900 but I don't know if it would be able to make the most of the tech Jun 18 17:12:06 I prefer capacitive. Jun 18 17:12:10 GAN900: You and me both... it's so tempting, but I can't stand the Apple policy. If the company wasn't run by such a complete arse hat I'd by one in the blink of an eye. Jun 18 17:12:13 That thing with Maemo and virtual input that doesn't suck, though. . . . Jun 18 17:12:14 so nokia is stupid but apple is more stupid? Jun 18 17:12:31 Surfa - different kinds of stupid :) Jun 18 17:12:31 Surfa, Apple's anything but stupid Jun 18 17:12:34 sigh Jun 18 17:13:05 GAN900, ios doesn't make them stupid? Jun 18 17:13:14 what makes company stupid Jun 18 17:13:17 Apple: Great execution, insanely restricive policies... Nokia: Insanely bad execution, pretty open policies Jun 18 17:13:37 Surfa: OK maybe not stupid, but Jobs is a knbo Jun 18 17:13:39 look around - we have people working towards porting linux onto different hardware Jun 18 17:13:43 s/knbo/knob/ Jun 18 17:13:44 Milhouse meant: Surfa: OK maybe not stupid, but Jobs is a knob Jun 18 17:13:47 whos to say we cant just use apple hardware? Jun 18 17:13:49 Milhouse, depends on what kind of an execution you measure Jun 18 17:14:11 Milhouse: I think it's an attempt to reate a buzz around them - there were quite limited stocks for the second batch of 50 Jun 18 17:14:12 why would you want to? because the screen is slightly higher res? Jun 18 17:14:13 Surfa: Look back over the last 5 years of Maemo. Jun 18 17:14:24 wait a month for all the other products that have the same hardware specs or better Jun 18 17:14:35 I mean didn't iPhone4 finally get a 5mpixel camera? Jun 18 17:14:36 Milhouse, many measurements would show that apple execution suck big time in many areas :)... Jun 18 17:14:42 greenfly, im thinking even the older iphones Jun 18 17:14:53 or n97s or any other smaller hardware Jun 18 17:14:57 lcuk: for me personally I need a keyboard Jun 18 17:15:01 Surfa: Compared to Nokia, Apple execute flawlessly EVERY time. Jun 18 17:15:13 together in maemo we have done more work and know a metric shitte tonne about making things work in low ceilings Jun 18 17:15:38 greenfly, i do too but just look on maemo, people want virtual keyboards for portrait stuff Jun 18 17:15:39 Milhouse, not really, still depends on what you would measure Jun 18 17:15:44 so having a hw keyboard isnt always it Jun 18 17:15:52 I'm just saying for me Jun 18 17:16:00 Surfa: Sales, hype, end user happiness? Jun 18 17:16:01 I use this as a portable computer, not as a phone Jun 18 17:16:05 sure - i didnt see n800 as a real computer Jun 18 17:16:12 it was only when 810 came out that i changed mind Jun 18 17:16:19 Surfa: Whereas with Nokia it's broken promises, misery, failed deliveries etc. Jun 18 17:16:20 and when the next gen comes out with presumably 1Ghz+, I'll definitely want a keyboard Jun 18 17:16:28 Milhouse, that's also not tha bipolar.. i for example wouldn't be happy at all as an end user Jun 18 17:16:36 oooh aghz race Jun 18 17:16:38 ssh sessions, irc sessions, and mutt all suck w/ a virtual keyboard Jun 18 17:16:44 Surfa: Are you new here by any chance? :) Jun 18 17:16:58 anyone know much about upstart\/etc/event.d to get things to start at boot time? Jun 18 17:17:10 Milhouse, i can't see relation to other discussion Jun 18 17:17:33 googling around, I found similar to: http://pastebin.com/aucRSJfa Jun 18 17:17:34 Surfa: Spend enough time hanging around this project and you'll come round to my way of thinking, I promise it Jun 18 17:17:39 but that doesn't seem to cut it. Jun 18 17:17:41 w00t_: look at the example scripts that are already in there Jun 18 17:17:53 w00t_: the syntax is pretty straightforward Jun 18 17:18:02 you just find the other upstart script that you want to use to trigger yours Jun 18 17:18:07 Surfa: Just take Ovi Store as one recent example! ;) Jun 18 17:18:12 w00t_, does /usr exist then? Jun 18 17:18:14 Hi! I m drawing inside a QListWidget using QItemDelegate... I change the row width... But Now the scrolling seems slows... Any idea how resolve it ? Jun 18 17:18:15 lcuk: yes Jun 18 17:18:32 row height I mean Jun 18 17:18:33 does your app run at all? (debug / echo lines to check Jun 18 17:18:41 lcuk: yes, when I run it manually, it works Jun 18 17:18:44 Milhouse, no no you got it wrong.. i don't talk about this single project, but hw, marketing, software, details, components all in general Jun 18 17:19:01 replace rotatedaemon with echo "wtf" >/stuff.txt Jun 18 17:19:08 and see if stuff is there after boot Jun 18 17:19:13 Milhouse, in some areas apple is better, buut there are many areas that apple really sucks in Jun 18 17:19:13 Surfa: OK, and you're saying that Apple execute no worse than Nokia? Jun 18 17:19:20 just to confirm that everything is accessible Jun 18 17:19:31 what deps does your app have? Jun 18 17:19:51 Milhouse, depends on what area execution we talk about :) some areas yes, some areas no Jun 18 17:19:59 lcuk: note that hildon-desktop is in /usr/ too, so if it wasn't mounted by then, h-d would never start :P Jun 18 17:20:03 lcuk: just X/Qt Jun 18 17:20:07 Surfa: I'm sure they do, but the end users RAVE about Apple - end user satisfaction is waaaay high. On this project that's far from the truth, and yet for years we've been promised change that would go towards improving the situation and it's never happened. Jun 18 17:20:08 Milhouse, both have pros and cons Jun 18 17:20:30 w00t_, just try that simple little tweak just to remove any ambiguity - once you know that works you can move on Jun 18 17:20:38 but if its not being triggered you can look elsewhere Jun 18 17:20:45 Milhouse, imo most of apple hype is just marketing bs and people driving each other for apple praising :) Jun 18 17:20:47 Nokia understands neither their customers nor the market. Jun 18 17:21:12 Milhouse, i do have apple products too, so i kind of know what i'm talking about Jun 18 17:21:23 Surfa, look at all of the amazing devices they've brought to market (E70, etc.) that disappear right away. Jun 18 17:21:26 Milhouse, but of course, thats only my personal opinion Jun 18 17:21:41 Surfa: Maybe, but when a new product is announced it arrives on time (more or less), features work as expected, the services are there to back it all up... whereas with Nokia it's delays, buggy features, and Ovi Store. Jun 18 17:21:46 Apple knows their customers and they know their market. Jun 18 17:22:12 Nokia flails around like a 2-year-old having a tantrum. Jun 18 17:22:12 GAN900, i have no idea what are you talking about or what i should respond Jun 18 17:22:34 Milhouse, sure, nokia isn't flawless company, that's not the point, but neither is apple :) Jun 18 17:23:03 Ovi Store is a complete disaster, where's Peter to manage the expections? I twittered him but surprise surprise have had no response... Jun 18 17:23:24 the main thing Nokia is missing compared to Apple is arrogance and hubris Jun 18 17:23:47 plenty of people praise Apple simply because they fear they'll look ignorant if they don't agree with their design decisions Jun 18 17:23:47 Surfa: I'm not suggesting Apple is flawless, but Nokia balls it up far more often as far as I can see, in fact it's pretty much guaranteed. Jun 18 17:23:57 http://pastebin.com/CRkfHxqJ hmm. Jun 18 17:24:42 greenfly: Plenty of arrogance within Nokia - that's partly how they got into this mess by completely dismissing touchscreen devices. I think arrogance is something they learn in Finnish schools. :) Jun 18 17:25:17 Milhouse, well, let's hope nokia is improving it's ways Jun 18 17:25:27 Milhouse: the arrogance doesn't transfer out to the customer, though Jun 18 17:25:32 they do have given signs that they know that everything is not right Jun 18 17:25:55 w00t_, so its not being daemonised? Jun 18 17:25:57 people aren't saying "Well Nokia chose resistive displays, it must be the exact right choice" Jun 18 17:25:58 greenfly: Hmm, not sure about that - some on the council may disagree Jun 18 17:26:00 etc Jun 18 17:26:06 * lcuk never used status/stop/start commands b4 Jun 18 17:26:10 its very difficult to compare nokia and apple as companies Jun 18 17:26:23 apple is highly focused on a small number of products Jun 18 17:26:46 nokia has grown to the point that communication is its huge problem Jun 18 17:26:58 greenfly, i prefer resistive displays Jun 18 17:27:06 Surfa: plenty of people do Jun 18 17:27:07 i wouldn't like to have capacitive Jun 18 17:27:10 flailingmonkey: agreed, people do often forget the breadth of nokias product range, though I thought they were trying to reduce that (in terms of new products each year?) Jun 18 17:27:18 but plenty of people simply like capacitive because that's what apple chose Jun 18 17:27:26 and they fear questioning it Jun 18 17:27:37 greenfly: yeah, engadget has a lot to answer for! Jun 18 17:27:38 because, again, of the arrogance Apple puts out WRT their design decisions Jun 18 17:27:54 greenfly, well, let's see how long that apple bs continues.. Jun 18 17:28:05 remember when it was a feature that the iPod was "simple" and couldn't do things like show your photos or video? Jun 18 17:28:14 ie. it could only play music? Jun 18 17:28:15 greenfly: nah, I think like any other company they just big up their products - of course they're going to say their design choice is the right choice. Jun 18 17:28:20 personal experiences wouldn't give much future for that either :) Jun 18 17:28:20 "Genius! Apple is right! Simplicity!" Jun 18 17:28:38 and that lasted just long enough for apple to catch up to the previous-gen mp3 players with the next iPod that could show photos Jun 18 17:28:48 but everyone quickly dropped the whole simplicity thing Jun 18 17:28:56 because of Apple spun it Jun 18 17:29:06 same thing could apply today to multi-tasking Jun 18 17:29:08 "Multi-tasking done the right way" (ducks) Jun 18 17:29:14 heh, almost beat me to it Jun 18 17:29:30 * lcuk looks at the channel name and rolls eyes about subject Jun 18 17:29:37 The thing is, there's an element of truth in what Apple say - just enough to make it hard to argue with. Jun 18 17:29:45 so anyway, Nokia doesn't sell their stuff the same way Jun 18 17:29:54 greenfly: No, but maybe they should? Jun 18 17:30:01 people don't fear others will think they are stupid if they disagree w/ nokia Jun 18 17:30:10 guys, take it to #nokiavsapplerants ok Jun 18 17:30:21 that i agree with Jun 18 17:30:26 fair enough Jun 18 17:30:29 "Retina display" - sheer brilliance. Jun 18 17:31:29 So what we gonna talk about now? ;-) Jun 18 17:31:38 mods on tmo also need to have official policy of directing those with complaints about Nokia to forum.nokia.com Jun 18 17:32:21 was there a code name for the OS after harmattan? Jun 18 17:32:23 me personally, I don't have a complaint, I prefer the n900 and think it's awesome Jun 18 17:32:24 Is t.mo.o. a peer of f.n.c? Jun 18 17:32:28 i know what i would like to talk about Jun 18 17:32:37 but im off, tis time for tea Jun 18 17:32:43 I hope they stick to having a hardware keyboard Jun 18 17:32:43 it is not Jun 18 17:33:03 flailingmonikey: shame, a small regular presence would help an awful lot. Jun 18 17:33:15 Nokia does not run tmo, but they donate some servers and possibly help with costs Jun 18 17:33:25 flailingmonkey: the regular disappearing acts for long periods of time don't help Jun 18 17:34:03 flailingmonkey: but's it's the semi-official first point of contact for most Maemo device owners... Jun 18 17:34:11 it doesn't make sense to expect Nokia to answer questions on Maemo forum. especially when they have their own site for that Jun 18 17:34:55 I believe maemo.org should have more latitude in releasing information Jun 18 17:35:11 f.n.c is just another user forum - rarely is there any official input from nokia that I can tell. in fact there is more on t.m.o, it's just that it's pretty random and when the sh1t hit's the fan it's noticeable by it's absence. Jun 18 17:35:27 just check the 50+ page Ovi Store udpate thread Jun 18 17:36:14 Hello everyone Jun 18 17:36:18 thats a good example. maemo.org group and even Nokia's maemo devices group have no influence on Ovi team Jun 18 17:36:45 but Ovi team will hear about threads on forum.nokia.com Jun 18 17:36:48 How can it be that the 'appdownloader' is not working very well? It is not refreshing for me. It keeps freezing up when trying to fetch the repositories listing. Jun 18 17:37:07 No influence maybe, but since it's impacting their devices surely they can pass the message along or just say "hey guys, ovi team are aware of the issue blah blah". Instead, silence. Jun 18 17:37:12 why 50 pages are on tmo, is because no one has told them, clearly, to go to nokia forum Jun 18 17:37:23 its too big a company for that Jun 18 17:37:43 flailingmonkey: too big? this is their bread and butter that isn't working... Jun 18 17:37:46 hey all Jun 18 17:37:50 hello Jun 18 17:37:59 Milhouse: don't know how much bread or butter they really made off the n900 Jun 18 17:38:05 Milhouse: you have a skewed perspective Jun 18 17:38:11 anyone having problems with the Ovi store? Jun 18 17:38:20 seems they'd give priority to symbian Jun 18 17:38:29 greenfly: probably margarine... but if they can't get their services to work reliably, they've got no hope Jun 18 17:38:38 Is the Ovi Store actually worth getting working well? I have not found much useful there of late... Jun 18 17:38:51 and they do. and if symbian users have problem with ovi, they'd go to f.n.c Jun 18 17:38:51 flailingmonkey: nah, years of watching nokia from afar :) Jun 18 17:38:54 someone higher up was probably sold the line that if you use something Open Source, "the community" will magically fix things Jun 18 17:39:04 ah nm i was using a custom user agent Jun 18 17:39:12 sorta like the elves that patch your shoes while you sleep Jun 18 17:39:17 flailingmonkey: i've used f.n.c. in the past - waste of time (problem with a Nokia N85) Jun 18 17:39:52 Nokia keeps making up nice little plans for all kind of services but eventually they are not either working properly or not reliable Jun 18 17:40:07 flailingmonkey: there's a shed load more N900/Maemo users on t.m.o., it's an officially monitored forum so we've been told so they should be aware of the problems... posting an update wouldn't hurt. Jun 18 17:41:32 but whos responsible for the update? there is no real stakeholder involvement in tmo from the rest of nokia, and a lot of the threads there address them, and not maemo team Jun 18 17:41:54 I do agree, that f.n.c. may be the official forum, and it may be worth posting something there but I would be a lone N900 user with few others to also post and raise it as a serious problem, while a 50+ page thread exists on t.m.o. Jun 18 17:42:13 Which forum would you monitor to guage the success of N900 Ovi Store? Jun 18 17:42:21 you wouldn't be if those threads could be moved to an appropriate place on f.n.c Jun 18 17:42:39 Sure, with single sign-on? Jun 18 17:42:53 something to ask reggie (i think?) perhaps, or even being able to use the same account Jun 18 17:42:54 Asking people to register on f.n.c. is a barrier to entry Jun 18 17:43:09 i agree Jun 18 17:43:24 why is it even necessary? just ask someone from f.n.c. to monitor t.m.o. (if they don't already, we've been told it's monitored) Jun 18 17:43:25 brb Jun 18 17:43:33 better if they could move threads from tmo to fnc :P Jun 18 17:44:24 or just a link maybe from f.n.c. to t.m.o. Jun 18 17:49:31 found my problem, needed to export DISPLAY=:0.0 it seems.. Jun 18 17:49:40 It's not f.n.c. I was thinking of, it's discussions.europe.nokia.com - the discussions forum is a pure user-to-user forum so pretty useless on the whole. Jun 18 17:49:58 aha, always that pesky display Jun 18 17:50:32 but it's designed for end users, while f.n.c. is oriented more towards the developer. Jun 18 17:51:40 still, it would be a bandaid. I would not be surprised if there is not much help from f.n.c. it is still pointless to have on tmo Jun 18 17:52:31 only because Nokia post only when it suits them, never when there is a problem (which has always been the case - head in the sand, ignore the problem until it goes away) Jun 18 17:53:17 the communication problem is a major one for Nokia, and not because they hate their customers Jun 18 17:53:33 I know, but it's been a problem for years! Jun 18 17:54:06 Nobody would expect the situation to improve over a period of months, but after years of promises that it will change and... still nothing? gets a bit frustrating! Jun 18 17:54:40 its a common problem for large companies. it requires taking risk and initiative, and many who work in large companies do not want to "rock the boat" Jun 18 17:55:18 Yeah well, it's clearly not working Jun 18 17:55:32 Milhouse: it's worked so far Jun 18 17:55:41 OK, it's not working anymore Jun 18 17:55:43 they did the same thing w/ the previous N series and people still bought the latest Jun 18 17:55:59 it's just a matter of setting the right expectations Jun 18 17:56:15 People have alternatives - they're voting with their wallets. Jun 18 17:56:38 hi guys Jun 18 17:56:41 Apple is much smaller, and that gives them an advantage. Jun 18 17:56:54 presumably when the next N tablet is released many of the same complainers will buy that too Jun 18 17:57:21 evening Venemo Jun 18 17:57:23 Kill them all! Jun 18 17:57:28 * GAN900 coughs. Jun 18 17:57:36 because the alternatives still (IMO) suck Jun 18 17:57:40 how come that I have set "Update automatically" in date&time, but still it is not accurate Jun 18 17:57:49 Nokia is still selling N900s too. they could do better, but when the status quo is alright, its hard to convince managers to take more risk Jun 18 17:57:58 Maybe, maybe not - MeeGo will be available from others. The great thing about MeeGo is that even if Nokia goes down the toilet, it will survive. Jun 18 17:58:00 Venemo: timezone correct too? Jun 18 17:58:54 And the markets are slowly turning against Nokia, so change is necessary - the people that matter (stockholders, finance industry) are growing as tired of Nokia as some of us! Jun 18 17:59:37 I would say that a goal for Nokia is to be more visibile in standing behind their products through their entire lifecycle Jun 18 17:59:45 I think N8 looks top of the heap for those who want a solid camera, movie player, video cam + phone Jun 18 18:00:01 Anyway, my mood hasn't been helped by having two bugs closed in b.m.o. because an anonymous develper didn't even understand the problem - something else that was supposed to change, but hasn't. Jun 18 18:00:25 pupnik: yeah, apart from it crashing a lot (apparently, according to recent previews) Jun 18 18:00:26 anonymous, as in a Nokian, or what? Jun 18 18:00:53 flailingmonkey: yes, Andre acts as proxy for the developers Jun 18 18:02:10 one of the long term problems with the maemo bugzilla is the lack of any meaningful public involvement from nokia developers (there are two or three that do what they can, but again it's a bit random) Jun 18 18:02:22 Milhouse: yes some software has these things called "bugs" during development. Before release. Jun 18 18:03:02 pupnik: I know, you just said "solid" :) Jun 18 18:03:16 pupnik: Or is that because it's made from aluminium? ;) Jun 18 18:03:23 he meant you can hold it in your hands, without a container :P Jun 18 18:04:22 something maemo.org could have done better was secure a liason from Ovi, instead of overloading Maemo Devices Nokians Jun 18 18:04:23 precisely! Jun 18 18:06:10 they probably still should. the f.n.c. has no sections for Ovi+Maemo either Jun 18 18:14:06 w00t_: yes, timezone is correct Jun 18 18:16:20 how many devices can play well on a single access point? Jun 18 18:16:41 and similar - has anyone ever looked at how many can play in adhoc mode Jun 18 18:17:04 only insane people use a network of adhoc devices Jun 18 18:17:05 :P Jun 18 18:17:09 lcuk: 254? Jun 18 18:17:11 is adhoc stable on N900 yet? Jun 18 18:17:33 its been stable for ages Jun 18 18:17:41 Milhouse, does it actually scale that far Jun 18 18:17:55 lcuk: probably depends on the horsepower of you access point Jun 18 18:18:15 Milhouse: adhoc .. accesspoint Jun 18 18:18:15 what Jun 18 18:18:32 yeah, but once connected im not thinking highbandwidth Jun 18 18:18:36 lcuk: ah but you first asked about an access point :) no idea about ad-hoc Jun 18 18:18:38 zash, 2 different questions Jun 18 18:18:39 tho related Jun 18 18:18:43 adhoc works on buses Jun 18 18:18:44 ;) Jun 18 18:18:55 lcuk: on a single ap i would have to go with "a lot" Jun 18 18:18:59 aps work for home Jun 18 18:19:09 frals sure Jun 18 18:19:18 oh Jun 18 18:19:20 lcuk: what about taxis and trains? Jun 18 18:19:47 GAN900, ping Jun 18 18:21:40 any way to set wallpapers in maemo ? Jun 18 18:22:18 digitalsurgeon, sure just edit desktop and set a different wallpaper Jun 18 18:22:30 through API Jun 18 18:22:34 ~seen vdvsx Jun 18 18:22:38 vdvsx <~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 1m 48s ago, saying: 'MohammadAG51, hey'. Jun 18 18:22:56 ~seen jebba Jun 18 18:22:57 jebba <~jebba@Ploegsma.cwx.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 17h 30m 40s ago, saying: 'perhaps just a dbus command will do it'. Jun 18 18:23:02 DocScrutinizer, i know valerio isnt online - but i saw GAN900 floating around recently Jun 18 18:23:14 yep Jun 18 18:24:25 probably busy with wordcount err worldcup Jun 18 18:25:50 and jebba is almost nonexistent for maemo recently Jun 18 18:26:35 Hello! Does anybody know where to disable the "automatic SMS" sent to nokia when initially starting the N900 with a SIM inserted? Jun 18 18:26:41 hi! i'm trying to forward a port on my n900 using ssh -D 1080 telephone, but connections using the port won't work Jun 18 18:26:45 so we're rather hitting lower limit for ops on devel Jun 18 18:27:21 GNU\caus11c: forward port ? Jun 18 18:27:27 kW_: try starting with SIM removed, going to MyNokia, unsubscribing, shutting down and inserting SIM Jun 18 18:27:32 do we think that works? Jun 18 18:27:35 that look the setting for do ssh tunneling Jun 18 18:28:02 yes, it is the tunneling setting Jun 18 18:28:31 kW_: flailingmonkey: see wiki. it's all in there Jun 18 18:28:50 GNU\caus11c: you config you browser for use sock proxy Jun 18 18:28:52 flailingmonkey: no, that method won't suffice Jun 18 18:28:53 ~MyNokia Jun 18 18:28:56 and to that port 1080 Jun 18 18:29:01 bummer Jun 18 18:29:04 yes Jun 18 18:29:24 i use this method quite often, but it won't work with the n900 Jun 18 18:29:27 DocScrutinizer: could you add a MyNokia factoid to the wiki page? Jun 18 18:29:38 GNU\caust1c: is the n900 connected to internet ? Jun 18 18:29:44 yes Jun 18 18:29:59 flailingmonkey: you mean if I could add a factoid with wikipage to infobot? Jun 18 18:31:02 aye aye Jun 18 18:31:12 lcuk, pong? Jun 18 18:31:47 ~MyNokia is a digital robbery courtesy Nokia, or http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription Jun 18 18:31:49 DocScrutinizer: okay Jun 18 18:32:01 does anyone using irssi have it setup to alert them if their nick is used in a message? Jun 18 18:32:08 *irssi on a N900 Jun 18 18:33:03 ~MyNokia is also https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10366 Jun 18 18:33:03 Bug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user Jun 18 18:33:04 okay, DocScrutinizer Jun 18 18:33:17 ~mynokia Jun 18 18:33:18 somebody said mynokia was a digital robbery courtesy Nokia, or http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription, or https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10366 Jun 18 18:33:20 Bug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user Jun 18 18:33:51 now I just need to make povbot output ~mynokia :-P Jun 18 18:33:54 GAN900, <<< #maemo-devel Jun 18 18:35:07 E0x: maybe i should use another way, i'm trying to use el-cheapo tethering without using iptables and settings routes etc. is there an easy way? network connection over usb is already working Jun 18 18:35:32 GNU\caust1c: talk to SpeedEvil Jun 18 18:35:56 GNU\caust1c: settings routes ? Jun 18 18:35:58 0th cut is to use sshd as a socks proxy Jun 18 18:36:18 SpeedEvil: thats what i'm trying to do Jun 18 18:41:13 GNU\caust1c: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/tips/tethering/linux/ Jun 18 18:41:57 my N900 3G reception seems low lately Jun 18 18:42:00 any ideas why my N900's system time is inaccurate even though I have the "Update automatically" option set? Jun 18 18:42:39 How inaccurate Jun 18 18:42:42 well, i do not have a ubuntu system which pops up tethering wizzards :) Jun 18 18:42:53 a multiple of 30 minutes or? Jun 18 18:43:27 GNU\caust1c: if you have gnome is teh same Jun 18 18:43:49 i dont have any desktop environment Jun 18 18:47:49 I experience the "Operation temporarily disabled due to low memory" error message although I have 19GB free on my rootfs... why does this error happen anyway? Jun 18 18:48:26 GNU\caust1c: http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ Jun 18 18:50:06 SpeedEvil: so i can't use n900 as socks proxy ? Jun 18 18:53:16 anyone else is having bad 3G reception? Jun 18 18:53:46 last 4 days I was in LA for E3, and the 3G reception was very very poor, where an iphone always got 3G at 5 bars Jun 18 18:53:50 LiraNuna: everybody has occasional low signal for 3G Jun 18 18:54:04 I'm speaking 5 days of low signal Jun 18 18:54:17 i need a chinese translator for webcam Jun 18 18:54:29 LiraNuna: having thousands more ppl than usually on the same tower usually makes a difference Jun 18 18:54:47 in reception? Jun 18 18:54:59 frals, he said the other device coped wel hmm Jun 18 18:55:15 i assumed he didnt have the iphone with him this time Jun 18 18:55:27 LiraNuna: that's absolutely like asking your car mechanic via telephone about how to fix that 'clckchrrrkclck" from behind Jun 18 18:55:29 the hype-phone was my friend's Jun 18 18:55:43 DocScrutinizer, I was I could get more info Jun 18 18:55:53 perhaps hte fix for ihpone was to disable lower bars :D Jun 18 18:55:56 DocScrutinizer, but the phone kept me on edge Jun 18 18:55:59 and i cant type Jun 18 18:56:21 I tried getting in here to ask and help me debug Jun 18 18:56:42 but whenever I got 3.5G, the connection didn't last for more than 2 minutes Jun 18 18:56:51 I have the same problem at home too Jun 18 18:57:06 right, so its not just a 3g area Jun 18 18:57:10 LiraNuna: depends on where you are, which provider you're using, the weather (really! no kidding), occasional problems in the BTS, and a shitload of other parameters Jun 18 18:57:18 its a 3.5g area - but connection to that isnt as widespread Jun 18 18:57:32 so its keep trying to upgrade to 3.5g Jun 18 18:57:38 but having to then fall back perhaps? Jun 18 18:58:19 DocScrutinizer, weather in LA was very very clear - not a single cloud in the sky Jun 18 18:58:32 again, the hype-phone had no trouble getting 3G Jun 18 18:58:52 did it use same provider as you did? Jun 18 18:59:00 well no Jun 18 18:59:05 see? Jun 18 18:59:14 but when I got 3.5G I got 500kbps no problem Jun 18 18:59:20 LiraNuna, did iphone get 3.5g? Jun 18 18:59:20 it just kept dropping Jun 18 18:59:31 lcuk, I don't think it supports HSPA+ Jun 18 18:59:54 anyone else is having reception issues? Jun 18 19:00:05 yes, frequently. Jun 18 19:00:11 i only have problem connecting sat in a single seat in the dentist waiting room Jun 18 19:00:24 signal drops to 1 bar of 2g and everything vanishes Jun 18 19:00:29 but everywhere else its strong Jun 18 19:00:39 even on the next seat along :D Jun 18 19:00:48 yes Jun 18 19:00:54 it would not surprise me if the iphone was fudging signal strength Jun 18 19:00:55 same here in my pub Jun 18 19:01:19 mines caused by proximity to xray machine probably Jun 18 19:01:40 lol Jun 18 19:01:52 well maybe Jun 18 19:02:04 the n900 reception for me in LA is muc better than the iphone ever was Jun 18 19:02:06 http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1597135-N900-Reception-Clear-phone-calls?s=f9c86bf76dd5d8a79e084b7bec5b5f09&p=13296736#post13296736 Jun 18 19:02:07 there might be a massive steel plate burried in the wall Jun 18 19:02:09 there's people like that Jun 18 19:04:18 E0x: I diddn't say that. Jun 18 19:04:34 SpeedEvil: i am asking you Jun 18 19:04:37 E0x: ah Jun 18 19:04:45 E0x: I've never used uusb networking. Jun 18 19:04:49 that kind of chep thering is not posible ? Jun 18 19:05:08 E0x: In principle, it's possible, as is much. Jun 18 19:05:26 SpeedEvil: any idea why it isn't working here? Jun 18 19:05:37 GNU\caust1c: Because nokia hates you. Jun 18 19:05:57 that is what i thought Jun 18 19:06:07 yay Jun 18 19:06:09 E0x: I note that typing the appropriate 'start ppp' invocation into pnatd when sshd into the phone works. Jun 18 19:06:13 kW_: congrats to 19GB free on rootfs. You are outperforming everyone by a factor of 80 at least Jun 18 19:06:19 My ssh-fu is weak. Jun 18 19:06:49 E0x: It should be quite possible to hook pppd to ssh to pnatd and tether over that Jun 18 19:06:50 DocScrutinizer: well, apparently, this does not help Jun 18 19:06:59 E0x: So you're tethering over wifi Jun 18 19:07:13 kW_: please do a "df -h /" in xterm Jun 18 19:07:31 bc -l Jun 18 19:07:41 300+110+50+20 Jun 18 19:07:46 quit Jun 18 19:07:51 argh Jun 18 19:07:55 lol Jun 18 19:07:57 I should open my eyes more often Jun 18 19:07:59 Does anybody know where "strace" can be found (e.g. in which repository?) Jun 18 19:08:06 kW: tool Jun 18 19:08:10 kW: tools probably Jun 18 19:08:30 kW: tools repo Jun 18 19:09:47 anyway, even strace won't give you more than 100MB free space on root, and that'd be even awesome amount of free Jun 18 19:09:51 DocScrutinizer+SpeedEvil: thank you Jun 18 19:10:20 19GB free is MyDocs Jun 18 19:10:20 DocScrutinizer: well, you just need to move root to one of the eMMC partitions... Jun 18 19:10:25 http://pastebin.ca/1885945 Jun 18 19:10:27 ok Jun 18 19:10:29 It's in one of these repos Jun 18 19:10:29 :-D Jun 18 19:10:50 SpeedEvil: thank you :-) Jun 18 19:11:25 SpeedEvil: "deb http://repository.apple.com/ iphone/apps non-free" is a joke, isn't it? Jun 18 19:11:37 lol Jun 18 19:11:44 rotfl Jun 18 19:13:08 btw you know red-pill mode resurrected? Jun 18 19:13:30 what is red-pill mode? Jun 18 19:13:34 just in case you'd like to use HAM to do things like installing strace Jun 18 19:14:00 or .deb you downloaded Jun 18 19:14:20 is there a manual somewhere how to configure tethering manually? Jun 18 19:14:23 kW: it's basically the expert mode of HAM Jun 18 19:14:40 uhmm Jun 18 19:14:57 the mobilehotspot package set the wifi in ad-hoc mode Jun 18 19:15:12 GNU\caust1c: manual? for what? Jun 18 19:15:14 hmm, what else could it do? Jun 18 19:15:20 is there any particular reason to don't set it to be a real ap? Jun 18 19:15:24 GNU\caust1c: or are you not talking about usb tethering? Jun 18 19:15:32 chip won't support it Jun 18 19:15:38 i am talking about usb tethering Jun 18 19:15:42 afaik Jun 18 19:16:00 GNU\caust1c: it just works, your pc just needs to use the modem ( =n900 ) Jun 18 19:16:10 DocScrutinizer: mumble, by setting it manually with iwconfig it seem to b working Jun 18 19:16:19 not yet really tryed it anyway Jun 18 19:16:27 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Jun 18 19:16:38 I could be wrong here Jun 18 19:16:48 valdyn: thanks Jun 18 19:16:55 do we have time lapse apps pre built for maemo? Jun 18 19:17:05 Oh - yes Jun 18 19:17:10 supposing i wanted to take a photo every30 seconds? Jun 18 19:17:12 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=714386#post714386 Jun 18 19:17:24 lcuk: I had some stupid script to do that with gstreamer Jun 18 19:17:38 no SO stupid Jun 18 19:17:45 i dont want some stupid script - im thinking properly packaged usable etc Jun 18 19:17:48 The above TMO post is wpa_supplicant Jun 18 19:18:01 * lcuk ponders pyqt Jun 18 19:18:05 lcuk: yeah - many things weren't perfect Jun 18 19:18:16 lcuk: fails for really stupid camera-ui Jun 18 19:18:18 well - wpa_supplicant and friends nextime Jun 18 19:18:23 may be useful for you Jun 18 19:18:27 DocScrutinizer: well, I'm not sure that I know what you mean with "HAM" :-) Jun 18 19:18:32 (I'm still new to the platform...) Jun 18 19:18:38 DocScrutinizer, not interested in camera ui Jun 18 19:18:39 oh no ok Jun 18 19:18:41 lcuk: you can rip out the camera Jun 18 19:18:42 kw appmanager Jun 18 19:18:43 it support monitor mode Jun 18 19:18:50 but not master Jun 18 19:18:52 lcuk: and replace your own Jun 18 19:18:55 SpeedEvil, i can take photos and streams Jun 18 19:19:08 lcuk: A nice camera would be awesome Jun 18 19:19:16 The existing one is full of fail. Jun 18 19:19:46 ? the only thing missing for me is torch icon Jun 18 19:21:01 I want to be able to alter camera settings without opening sjutter, I want GPS not to be pointlessly inaccurate, I want it to have the option not to try to connect to the internet, and simply iuse the GPS poistion without looking up the name online, I want to have it go automatically to 'night mode' in dark environments. Jun 18 19:21:06 Offthe top of my head. Jun 18 19:21:13 sad that we can't set up in real ap mode Jun 18 19:21:14 lcuk: the problem is camera-ui and cameradaemon are always active preloaded, and take the whole triggering and focusing etc exclusively (the buttons) and you can't control it via dbus or whatever Jun 18 19:21:19 I want circle zoom to work Jun 18 19:21:29 DocScrutinizer: that's not quite true Jun 18 19:21:43 DocScrutinizer: you can redefine the button names away from theones its expecting. Jun 18 19:21:59 hmm, also for lens slider? Jun 18 19:22:03 yes Jun 18 19:22:08 ok then Jun 18 19:22:27 I have however forgotten to bookmark the TMO post where this was outlined. Jun 18 19:22:29 then you 'just' need to reprogram / reinvent the whole shit Jun 18 19:22:43 What was that awesome-looking camera thingy Jun 18 19:22:44 camera settings outside the shutter are mmmnnnh Jun 18 19:22:53 gps is surely as accurate as it is when you use it Jun 18 19:23:15 if you do a quick NOW gps it wont be as accurate as if you have gps tracking/maps open and accurate position anyway Jun 18 19:23:19 lcuk: Nope. Jun 18 19:23:21 night mode would piss off many people Jun 18 19:23:29 who have finger near sensor at opening time Jun 18 19:23:38 circle zoom would be cool Jun 18 19:23:43 lcuk: It truncates the GPS reading to a second of arc. (around 4m north-south Jun 18 19:23:57 30m Jun 18 19:23:58 fair enough Jun 18 19:24:01 not 4m Jun 18 19:24:07 4m would be barely acceptable Jun 18 19:24:32 bug 6584 Jun 18 19:24:33 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading (0 decimal places) Jun 18 19:24:46 Makes - for example - tagging plants in my garden hard. Jun 18 19:24:50 Did anybody of you experience that "Conversations" does not want to run? Jun 18 19:25:23 nope Jun 18 19:25:32 SpeedEvil, agreed about camera res, didnt realise it was like that Jun 18 19:26:09 well, it simply starts, needs some seconds, and then stops Jun 18 19:26:12 without an error message Jun 18 19:26:28 when running dbus-monitor, I get "string "type='signal',sender=':1.20',path='/org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Connection/ring/tel/ring',interface='org.freedesktop.Telepathy.Connection',member='ConnectionError'"" Jun 18 19:26:56 ConnectionError Jun 18 19:27:27 (well, among many other DBus-messages) Jun 18 19:28:22 sounds pretty much like modem has connectivity issues (well phone actually), and for any odd reason conversations doesn't want to start without coverage Jun 18 19:28:50 SpeedEvil, thanks for pointer about gps Jun 18 19:29:03 lcuk: In principle it's simple to hack round. Jun 18 19:29:13 yeah sure Jun 18 19:29:28 lcuk: dbus-monitor - with a little script that looks at the position, and looks for new files appearing, and rewrites the EXIF. Jun 18 19:29:32 But... Jun 18 19:29:53 kW: though in tablet modus it starts here, but says "need online mode" when I click "new SMS" Jun 18 19:30:11 DocScrutinizer: well, I do not get even to a "new SMS" button :-( Jun 18 19:30:22 I think connection eerror is not saying it is haveing a connection over the air problem, but I can't talk to telepatyhy Jun 18 19:30:39 try flight mode or tablet mode and see if it szarts then Jun 18 19:31:02 possible Jun 18 19:31:09 d-bus connectio error Jun 18 19:31:45 to rule that out I suggest to try flightmode Jun 18 19:32:37 telepathy d-bus API is a nightmare Jun 18 19:33:12 so I'm not even wondering why it says "ring/tel/ring" Jun 18 19:34:43 And I think nameless d-bus senders should be outlawed and punished with at least 5 years windows servicing Jun 18 19:35:32 :/ Jun 18 19:35:36 * DocScrutinizer ponders to adapt spamasassin for d-bus Jun 18 19:36:27 not to implement a d-bus api, but to filter d-bus msgs ;-P Jun 18 19:37:10 DocScrutinizer: well, how do I actually put the phone into flight mode? Jun 18 19:37:14 kW: Jun 18 19:37:30 Hold down the power button, and press 'offline mode' Jun 18 19:37:31 kW: push power button shortly Jun 18 19:37:35 ah Jun 18 19:37:37 wel - press Jun 18 19:37:54 ah, that workw Jun 18 19:37:56 ah, that works Jun 18 19:38:18 ...to the extent that I now cannot access the phone using WLAN ;-) Jun 18 19:38:24 :) Jun 18 19:38:45 * lcuk wonders what kind of offline mode it would be if it didnt actually take offline Jun 18 19:38:49 yeah, works - if you got such a thing like power button ;-P Jun 18 19:39:11 well, but even in flight mode, the "Conversations" app does not start properly... Jun 18 19:39:38 kw, that's what tablet mode is for. It's an addon app though that installs that button Jun 18 19:40:07 kW: ok, then you got another problem Jun 18 19:40:21 s/another/a different/ Jun 18 19:40:21 DocScrutinizer meant: kW: ok, then you got a different problem Jun 18 19:41:58 ok, maybe I sum up what is apparently wrong: Notes: "Internal error. Application 'Notes' closed.", E-mail: "Operation temporarily disabled due to low memory", Conversations: just silently starts and finishes Jun 18 19:42:19 is your / full? Jun 18 19:42:33 hmm, or db corrupt Jun 18 19:42:40 * SpeedEvil sighs at the stupid conflation of all forms of storage into 'memory' Jun 18 19:43:09 kW: df -h / !!! Jun 18 19:44:02 and df -h ~ Jun 18 19:44:08 DocScrutinizer: "rootfs 21.1G 1.2G 18.9G 6% /" Jun 18 19:44:17 wtf?! Jun 18 19:44:22 easydebian? Jun 18 19:44:40 please post the output of mount Jun 18 19:45:29 kW: have you been playing with your partitions again :P Jun 18 19:45:39 http://pastebin.com/Cn0Ugacr Jun 18 19:45:57 I'd expect to see "permissions not supported on this fs. error on creating file" -> notifier "storage full" Jun 18 19:46:10 no, as I said, I changed the partition layout of the eMMC and put the root on a partition there (having read all the fuss about / having just 0.25GB...) Jun 18 19:47:21 DocScrutinizer: well, this is stock ext3... Jun 18 19:47:35 I see. cool setup Jun 18 19:47:51 the old (copy) is on /mnt/boot Jun 18 19:49:13 DocScrutinizer: well, I fear that there is some weird check somewhere which checks "well, the rootfs is already 1.9GB in size, so the filesystem is full" Jun 18 19:49:43 don't think so Jun 18 19:49:54 that'd be too weird Jun 18 19:50:22 but I actually wonder how you boot such setup Jun 18 19:50:47 seems you'd have to pass a root= parameter to kernel cmdline Jun 18 19:51:01 which NOLO won't do afaik Jun 18 19:51:25 DocScrutinizer: no, since PR1.2, I can add a bootmenu Jun 18 19:51:36 I know Jun 18 19:51:41 even since 1.1.1 Jun 18 19:51:42 DocScrutinizer: in the bootmenu, I mount the partition and chroot into it Jun 18 19:51:58 hmm, maybe the chroot is the problem then? Jun 18 19:52:09 (actually, I even ask the user to supply a password to unlock the decryptet partition) Jun 18 19:52:13 some file handles still open to old root? Jun 18 19:52:47 DocScrutinizer: the output of "lsof | grep /mnt/boot" is empty Jun 18 19:53:09 mhm, was about to suggest something along that line Jun 18 19:53:33 sorry, no idea Jun 18 19:53:44 probably strace actually is your best bet Jun 18 19:53:46 well... maybe the amount of free space does _overflow_? Jun 18 19:54:36 hmm Jun 18 19:54:39 I don't think there is any explicit check for free space. It just tries to create or open files Jun 18 19:54:43 that would be silly, but I can't rule it out Jun 18 19:55:11 and if that fails you get error "no space" as there's obviously no other possible reason the file operation could fail Jun 18 19:55:48 strace is awesome Jun 18 19:56:40 well, modest' last d-bus call is "dest=org.gnome.GnomeVFS.Daemon serial=57 path=/org/gnome/GnomeVFS/Daemon; interface=org.gnome.GnomeVFS.Daemon; member=GetVolumes" Jun 18 19:56:55 so maybe modest parses this output and decides that something is wrong|missing Jun 18 19:57:28 you bet they got hardcoded pathnames or something odd in there Jun 18 19:57:45 anyway modest is open Jun 18 19:58:10 so gdb would be even better than strace Jun 18 19:58:24 maybe Jun 18 19:58:28 maybe not Jun 18 19:59:36 org.gnome.GnomeVFS.Daemon, blarrrrgh Jun 18 19:59:37 I'd _love_ a seperate repository. Jun 18 19:59:51 So that every repository had a _debug repository too Jun 18 20:00:04 so you could just do apt-get install modest-debug Jun 18 20:00:27 that'd be a pkg though, not a separate repo Jun 18 20:00:39 Meh. Jun 18 20:00:45 and yes, that would be the way to do Jun 18 20:01:27 To quote - `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' Jun 18 20:01:41 and yet another pkg for the docs Jun 18 20:02:27 yeah Jun 18 20:03:10 move those out of 'user' category if you feel better Jun 18 20:03:22 so they won't show up in HAM Jun 18 20:04:29 We don't need that! Jun 18 20:04:34 bet a buck Jun 18 20:06:01 kW: please keep us updated on results of your enterprise. It look really attractive Jun 18 20:06:29 even better than separate partitions for /usr and /var :-D Jun 18 20:06:38 kW: Also - benchmarks Jun 18 20:06:45 kW: Time to boot, ... Jun 18 20:07:21 time to boot is a good benchmark, and we all have the standard to compare the numbers Jun 18 20:08:00 though I have to admit I have not the slightest idea how long a standard system takes to boot Jun 18 20:08:03 DocScrutinizer+SpeedEvil: sure, but first it has to work _at all_ ... and it does not currently (but I believe this is only because I've inserted a SIM card yesterday...) Jun 18 20:08:27 kW: Can you pick if you boot off / or /mmc? Jun 18 20:08:37 strace in both caces would be educational. Jun 18 20:08:58 Busybox with the bootchart compiled in might also be interesting. Jun 18 20:09:07 * SpeedEvil adds it to the stack of stuff to try compiling. Jun 18 20:11:38 SpeedEvil: well, I just boot from the mmc, but the bootmenu allows to boot from the internal NAND flash (as usual) Jun 18 20:14:51 by the way: do you also have a "/home/user/.signon" directory which is actually owned by root (and not user)? Jun 18 20:15:50 .signon: Jun 18 20:15:50 drwxrwxrwx 2 root root 4096 Jun 18 20:35 . Jun 18 20:15:50 drwxr-xr-x 110 user users 4096 Jun 18 14:30 .. Jun 18 20:15:50 -rw-rw-rw- 1 user users 2195 Jun 18 20:35 user_db.xml Jun 18 20:18:36 seems someone thinks it's not a good idea to rename or delete user_db.xml Jun 18 20:19:10 well, scratch that Jun 18 20:19:41 Ah - cunning Jun 18 20:19:54 user_db.xml is what format would you guess? Jun 18 20:20:00 guys, I've found the problem! Jun 18 20:20:11 :) Jun 18 20:20:23 The script to actually add encrypted swap was not run for some reason Jun 18 20:20:29 thus, I had no swap Jun 18 20:20:34 and literally no memory (in RAM) Jun 18 20:21:07 :) Jun 18 20:21:07 encryped swap, omg Jun 18 20:21:42 swap file? Jun 18 20:22:05 DocScrutinizer: well, data on the phone contains thousand of passwords... with the possibility to make many companies bankrupt within 5 minutes... Jun 18 20:22:13 no, it is a partition Jun 18 20:22:30 probably a file would be easier to handle Jun 18 20:23:03 not necessary, the scripts needed for this are already written Jun 18 20:23:16 hmm, ok Jun 18 20:23:25 (although I had to hack them because the command "blockdev" is not available on maemo... or is it?) Jun 18 20:23:54 the bottleneck isn't the (de)crypt but the mem-bus anyway Jun 18 20:24:19 well... in some tests, I was able to make "kcryptd" eat 80% CPU Jun 18 20:24:44 so maybe not only encrypt but also cmpress same time might actually speed up things considerably Jun 18 20:24:46 ok this is just weird Jun 18 20:25:02 if I turn on my N900, I get 5bar 3G signal that turns into 3.5G once a connection is made Jun 18 20:25:28 LiraNuna: what's weird with this? Jun 18 20:25:33 DocScrutinizer: yes, maybe Jun 18 20:25:50 after 2 minutes of doing absolutely nothing, the 3.5G connection drops to 3G (I know it happens if no data is transfered) then gradually drops the bars until it reaches 2.5G full Jun 18 20:25:59 please note: the phone is standing still Jun 18 20:26:25 that's *absolutely* normal Jun 18 20:26:39 except maybe the 2.5G part Jun 18 20:26:39 DocScrutinizer, why? Jun 18 20:26:53 the phone is still and reporting full 3.5G connection Jun 18 20:27:05 T-mobile's site reports HSPA+ is available too Jun 18 20:27:05 DocScrutinizer: I'm also considering using the internal NAND as fast storage for frequently used applications (however, this requires tamperproofness: that is, nobody should be able to inject a "sniffer" into the unencrypted flash storage, e.g. by flashing this storage, without the user noticing this... but such a way of tamperproofness is required in general...) Jun 18 20:28:05 DocScrutinizer, the N900 shows 5 bars, dropping a bar every 2-3 seconds, until it reaches one bar, then swaps to full 2.5G Jun 18 20:28:08 how is that normal? Jun 18 20:28:12 LiraNuna: nope, this isn't 'reported' - this is negotiated whenever you actually try to transmit data. So 3.5 will show up only if you have data traffic Jun 18 20:28:23 yes I know about that part Jun 18 20:28:37 I don't mind about the 3G/3.5G as much as the 2.5G drop out Jun 18 20:28:54 [2010-06-18 22:26:39] except maybe the 2.5G part Jun 18 20:29:10 is anyone experiencing same issues? how can I debug this? Jun 18 20:29:25 LiraNuna: just means you have bad reception Jun 18 20:29:40 LiraNuna: bars drop only as soon as you actually use the connection Jun 18 20:29:47 kW: md5sum Jun 18 20:29:57 DocScrutinizer: but not on every boot... Jun 18 20:30:15 won't be another way to get is safe Jun 18 20:30:20 valdyn, but I can use the connection just fine for ~2 minutes Jun 18 20:30:30 I actually get decent speed (~300kbps) Jun 18 20:30:49 the phone doesn't move a centimeter Jun 18 20:30:53 LiraNuna: UL orDL? Jun 18 20:30:58 DL Jun 18 20:31:02 300kbps decent? Jun 18 20:31:08 that's really no decent speed Jun 18 20:31:09 DocScrutinizer: hmm... but maybe on every boot is actually not bad... this would require some kernel-level support: store cryptographic checksums for every _block_ of the NAND device Jun 18 20:31:10 is it too low? Jun 18 20:31:24 LiraNuna: thats nearly as slow as 2G Jun 18 20:31:27 DocScrutinizer: and on (first) loading, compare this to a pre-loaded list of checksum Jun 18 20:31:28 DocScrutinizer: and on (first) loading, compare this to a pre-loaded list of checksums Jun 18 20:31:35 ok let me rephrase Jun 18 20:31:37 300KB/s Jun 18 20:31:59 LiraNuna: and probably when trying to send the BTS detects it can't hear you and then reports that fact to the phone, so the bars drop Jun 18 20:32:04 the pre-loaded list of checksums would consume just about 512KB of RAM Jun 18 20:32:20 LiraNuna: but cant explain that part Jun 18 20:32:22 DocScrutinizer, it happens everywhere Jun 18 20:32:35 I live in SF, and I had the same symptoms in LA Jun 18 20:33:17 LiraNuna: what about switching to 3G where your phone cant switch? Jun 18 20:33:32 LiraNuna: ( theres an applet for that ) Jun 18 20:33:35 says "Cellular data not available" for 2 seconds Jun 18 20:33:39 then full 3G reception Jun 18 20:33:42 Different-question: does anybody know how to add some script to the boot sequence? Adding a link to "/etc/rc2.d" does not seem to be enough Jun 18 20:33:44 yes, I'm using it Jun 18 20:33:49 but I don't want to switch manually! Jun 18 20:34:02 LiraNuna: that message you do get when switching manually, that's ok Jun 18 20:34:22 kW: it's upstart Jun 18 20:34:28 valdyn, manually it works fine Jun 18 20:34:34 but I want it to be done automatically Jun 18 20:35:26 kW: means, I've got no idea, except there's a folder 'events.d' or something Jun 18 20:36:32 valdyn, are my symptoms normal? Jun 18 20:36:54 LiraNuna: what's your provider? Jun 18 20:36:57 LiraNuna: no, im not getting these switches to 2G when the reception is fine Jun 18 20:37:04 T-mobile Jun 18 20:37:11 hmm Jun 18 20:37:30 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/06/18/152254/Sleeping-iPhones-Send-Phantom-Data Jun 18 20:37:39 maybe you should actually visit Nokia care center and ask them about it Jun 18 20:37:54 LiraNuna: theres alot of things american network operators can do that would not be possible in europe though Jun 18 20:38:11 DocScrutinizer: well, the "upstart" keyword is probably enough :-) Jun 18 20:38:18 LiraNuna: ( i cant tell if they dont intentionally switch you to 2G Jun 18 20:38:35 ( or if that is even possible ) Jun 18 20:38:38 the carrier can force me switch? Jun 18 20:38:57 +to Jun 18 20:39:10 yes, it can, from 3G to 2G Jun 18 20:39:23 I don't think the other way round is possible Jun 18 20:39:46 anyone else here is on T-mobile? Jun 18 20:41:02 LiraNuna: though honestly I see similar effects here when I'm in areas of poor coverage Jun 18 20:41:21 DocScrutinizer: regarding boot-time-benchmarking, where is the methodology explained? Jun 18 20:41:27 I am NOT in a poor coverage Jun 18 20:41:29 or when I'm holding right edge of the phone while typing Jun 18 20:41:35 I'm in SF, the whole town has 3 Jun 18 20:41:36 3G* Jun 18 20:42:42 depending on where you are in SF you could get bad coverage Jun 18 20:42:46 kW: first approach: swirch on and start stopwatch. wait till desktop is fully rendered and stop stopwatch Jun 18 20:42:54 plenty of clubs/bars where all carriers fail in the city Jun 18 20:43:14 greenfly, you're on T-mobile/SF? Jun 18 20:43:28 greenfly: my point Jun 18 20:43:42 DocScrutinizer: well, I just booted, after pressing "return", it probably took about 60 seconds until my jabber account sign on sound was played Jun 18 20:44:03 LiraNuna: yeah, but right now I'm not in SF Jun 18 20:44:26 my connection constantly drops to 2.5G Jun 18 20:44:35 kW, what apps do you have on startup? and many wdgets? Jun 18 20:44:41 unless I "force" it to be 3G, which will then work fine Jun 18 20:44:42 hmm, as mentioned above I don't have correct recent values for a stock kernel and rootfs boot, but that sounds not that unbearable Jun 18 20:44:50 kW: ^^^ Jun 18 20:45:01 it's the "dual" mode that fails Jun 18 20:45:03 LiraNuna: I've seen it happen Jun 18 20:45:16 both on my n900 w/ tmobile and my BB Bold, on ATT Jun 18 20:45:43 it's annoying as the N900 doesn't "upgrade" connection if possible when I actually want to use it Jun 18 20:45:52 Icuk: well, the USB-power-connection to my laptop makes the N900 create the appropriate message "Connected to USB device", then the jabber client is online, and a SIM card is inserted (with PIN removed), and Wifi is active Jun 18 20:47:48 kW: could you check if the device starts to charge proper when switched off connected to charger, please? Jun 18 20:47:50 DocScrutinizer: well, it is not unbearable for me, especially as I do not plan to switch it off or reboot it anyway... is regular rebooting required or forced (e.g. crashes)? Jun 18 20:48:17 nope Jun 18 20:48:21 DocScrutinizer: how can I determine this? the battery is fully charged currently... Jun 18 20:48:22 not really Jun 18 20:48:40 well, a green LED would be a good sign Jun 18 20:48:53 a yellow blinking one as well Jun 18 20:50:03 probably this will fail on your device anyway, as it needs to boot up system in 'play_dead mode', and aiui that would require you to enter the password Jun 18 20:50:33 ACTDEAD ;) Jun 18 20:50:41 DocScrutinizer: "aiui"? Jun 18 20:50:48 ~wtf aiui Jun 18 20:50:50 AIUI: as I understand it Jun 18 20:50:53 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/06/motorola-droid-2-gizmodo.jpg Jun 18 20:50:57 this looks familiar... Jun 18 20:51:08 now where did I see this before Jun 18 20:51:21 DocScrutinizer: well, I do not think it will fail, because in the boot menu, booting from the encrypted partition is the _second_ menu item, the _first_ is booting as usual... including the "act dead" mode, I suppose Jun 18 20:51:36 ok Jun 18 20:51:39 ack Jun 18 20:51:57 so no navi sensor anymore? idiots. Jun 18 20:54:48 anyone has a solution to why my service is being degraded? if I set it to 3G mode, it works like a charm Jun 18 20:55:53 LiraNuna, nope, but file a proper bug and for most reasonable thing i suggest locking to 3g as you said it works? Jun 18 20:56:14 lcuk, but when I'm out of 3G coverage, it won't give me service *at all* Jun 18 20:58:25 lcuk: in liqbase, what was it exactly you were passing around? 800x480 RGB-what? Jun 18 20:58:36 LiraNuna, i wouldnt know how to begin to diagnose your problem - it could be specifically area related - and since most people dont have same trouble you will have to file and see if anything can be done Jun 18 20:58:37 or was it YUV Jun 18 20:59:09 resolution isnt important stskeeps, but its yuv planar Jun 18 20:59:24 and its not were - it is Jun 18 20:59:25 LiraNuna: that's your carrier's config of their GSM/UMTS network, they don't like to have a device on their towers that doesn't proerly speak to the basestation, so they force you down to 2G. I'd guess Jun 18 21:00:22 DocScrutinizer, if that was the case, I wouldn't get 3G if I force the phone to use it Jun 18 21:00:28 Stskeeps, what you pondering Jun 18 21:00:39 LiraNuna: yes you would Jun 18 21:01:25 DocScrutinizer: it is 64 seconds from enter to the "Connected to USB device" message Jun 18 21:01:36 DocScrutinizer, then again, if that was the case, I wouldn't be the only one reporting it Jun 18 21:01:50 lcuk: GLES performance on N8x0 possibilities Jun 18 21:01:50 LiraNuna: networks are complex, the tower tells your phone it *should* prefer 2G, and if your phone says I cant do that, then you'll simply stay on 3G Jun 18 21:02:23 Stskeeps, there was talk of an RGB xvideo mode Jun 18 21:02:37 DocScrutinizer, anyway to debug what the tower "says" ? Jun 18 21:02:38 but that the patch existed tho was not integrated i believe Jun 18 21:02:50 LiraNuna: I suggested previously you should visit a Nokia care center. You might have a defect antenna Jun 18 21:03:04 oh, I might've missed that Jun 18 21:03:09 LiraNuna: nope, not for usual mortals Jun 18 21:03:24 Stskeeps, it theoretically could slide under the tearing limit on n810 Jun 18 21:03:37 for full resolution 800*480 Jun 18 21:03:57 i would have to dig up my notes, it was ~18 months ago i heard about it Jun 18 21:04:43 mm, not xv specifically Jun 18 21:04:48 something about specific desktop graphics cards also support this video mode Jun 18 21:05:02 yeah Stskeeps Jun 18 21:05:06 just pushing frames manually Jun 18 21:05:09 * lcuk remembers the conversation clearly Jun 18 21:05:13 as i do most things :P Jun 18 21:05:14 until konttori comes comes up with the service mode for cellmo Jun 18 21:05:16 nite all, sweet dreams Jun 18 21:05:34 there's this OMAPFB_UPDATE_WINDOW thing that allows to send parts of the framebuffer to the LCD chip Jun 18 21:05:38 * MohammadAG gives up on disassembling his PS3 controller Jun 18 21:05:45 damn spring broke, somehow Jun 18 21:05:53 ok Stskeeps you are thinking lower than xvideo Jun 18 21:06:02 * nextime need to find some time to setup the developement environment to package apps for maemo Jun 18 21:06:05 the omapfb/lcd hardware on 810 technically supports it Jun 18 21:06:08 yeah Jun 18 21:06:25 but the driver needs massaging to let you send the data Jun 18 21:06:33 and have it shown correctly Jun 18 21:06:33 DocScrutinizer: It's only 16Mbytes ROM, how hard can dissasembly be? :) Jun 18 21:06:45 :-) Jun 18 21:06:51 ARM I suppose Jun 18 21:06:53 SpeedEvil, *rolleyes* Jun 18 21:06:54 yes Jun 18 21:07:09 * SpeedEvil catches the eyes, and rolls them back. Jun 18 21:08:11 Stskeeps, if the mode can be gotten to work, another possibility exists Jun 18 21:08:18 lower resolution xv Jun 18 21:08:24 say - 640*480 Jun 18 21:08:44 mm Jun 18 21:09:31 negligable resolution reduction, ~20 boost Jun 18 21:09:34 20% Jun 18 21:09:46 its something i showed worked in liqbase Jun 18 21:10:01 load original one onto 810 and see, you can dynamically alter res Jun 18 21:11:17 people scale up 720x576 video to 800x480 or how was it? Jun 18 21:11:39 xv supports arbritary resolution, so yeah Jun 18 21:11:47 you can tell it any res and it will stretch to fit Jun 18 21:11:50 mm Jun 18 21:12:42 the only thing xv wont do at the moment is rotate Jun 18 21:12:59 if the device is in portrait it still shows at 480*480 max Jun 18 21:13:05 will not do a full 800*480 Jun 18 21:13:09 works great on x86 tho Jun 18 21:13:34 hm Jun 18 21:13:50 think my neighborhood is being electric hogs Jun 18 21:13:52 its hard to boil down an example though Jun 18 21:14:00 power keeps messing up Jun 18 21:14:00 because theres no drawing tools to draw on xv Jun 18 21:14:06 without having to include liqbase Jun 18 21:14:47 Hi all, anyone know if vpnc works on the N900 Jun 18 21:14:58 * nextime happy to see that vlc have a freemantle repository Jun 18 21:15:08 I didn't see a download for Maemo5 section, only os2008 Jun 18 21:16:21 ultrasparc-viii: Is this a commandline program - some trivial browsing would inficate it is Jun 18 21:16:49 http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~massar/vpnc/ ? Jun 18 21:17:04 vpnc is a cli program for initializing vpn connections with cisco vpn concentrators Jun 18 21:17:38 ultrasparc-viii : maybe ou can try to download it from standard debian armel repository, can't you? Jun 18 21:17:40 maybe I can compile it to work on maemo5 Jun 18 21:17:46 yes, proably Jun 18 21:17:54 ultrasparc-viii, give it a blast! Jun 18 21:17:58 yeah I'll give that a go - the debian method is probably easiest since apt will resolve deps Jun 18 21:18:00 http://ftp.debian.org/pool/main/v/vpnc/ Jun 18 21:18:08 I had it working on my n800! Jun 18 21:18:16 :) Jun 18 21:18:22 just ordered the n900 Jun 18 21:18:32 Congrapulations. Jun 18 21:18:34 http://maemo.org/packages/view/vpnc/ Jun 18 21:18:36 ahem Jun 18 21:18:38 ^^ Jun 18 21:18:41 ops :P Jun 18 21:18:44 done Jun 18 21:18:49 thank till Jun 18 21:18:55 lcuk: thanks :) Jun 18 21:19:09 its directly in extras :) Jun 18 21:19:20 when you get your device and get o nnet its available at first attempt Jun 18 21:19:45 ops no :p Jun 18 21:19:48 its in -devel Jun 18 21:19:53 http://maemo.org/profile/list/category/products/ Jun 18 21:19:55 interesting Jun 18 21:20:28 * nextime needs to do some rtfm on the maemo sdk and/or if there is any particular needs for put online a maemo specific deb repo Jun 18 21:20:40 what speeds do you guys get on 3G (not 3.5G) with your N900? Jun 18 21:20:51 other that usual things to cross compile for armel i mean. Jun 18 21:20:52 SpeedEvil, afaik it's a list sorted by the number of apps you maintain Jun 18 21:20:59 LiraNuna, 1MB, or so Jun 18 21:21:02 MohammadAG: I know Jun 18 21:21:16 LiraNuna: 3G is limited to 64K as I understand it. Jun 18 21:21:39 I can't seem to get above 300KB/s Jun 18 21:21:43 Till v-tec kicks in. Jun 18 21:21:48 * LiraNuna is considering a reflesh Jun 18 21:21:50 64kbits Jun 18 21:22:14 3.5 should be automatically switched to, to give higher speed as required Jun 18 21:22:26 I get 150kbytes/s or so from the sofa Jun 18 21:22:28 right, I understand that Jun 18 21:22:39 oh nice Jun 18 21:22:47 * AntiPudding pictures speedevil running like a cat to the sofaa Jun 18 21:23:18 * SpeedEvil continues lying on the sofa. Jun 18 21:23:23 * nextime looks at the dog sleeping near the door Jun 18 21:23:41 * SpeedEvil is exhausted - done way too much rimming today. Jun 18 21:24:08 Pile of resultant stuff is around the size of a small car. Jun 18 21:24:19 s/ri/tri/ Jun 18 21:24:33 LiraNuna: 300k is quite good for 3.4g Jun 18 21:24:38 3.5 Jun 18 21:24:51 I've seen people report several megabytes Jun 18 21:24:59 mumble Jun 18 21:24:59 nope Jun 18 21:25:00 megabits Jun 18 21:25:11 nominally 3.5G here is a lot more fast Jun 18 21:25:12 well, I get 0.3mbit Jun 18 21:25:15 no Jun 18 21:25:19 you get 3Mbits Jun 18 21:25:30 speedtest.net shows 0.3mbit Jun 18 21:25:43 dont trust it Jun 18 21:25:57 * LiraNuna wgets a file from a high-speed server Jun 18 21:26:00 if you get 300KB/s then it's 3Mbits Jun 18 21:26:00 I only use kernel.org Jun 18 21:27:32 LiraNuna: try jacekowski.org/big_file Jun 18 21:27:37 uhmm Jun 18 21:27:43 where is the pipe on the kb? Jun 18 21:27:45 that's only server i trust Jun 18 21:27:55 jacekowski, I got a server too on 1gbit fiber network Jun 18 21:28:07 but I can try yours too Jun 18 21:28:31 and what sort of signal do you have? Jun 18 21:28:42 shows 3.5G 4 bars Jun 18 21:28:50 hmmm Jun 18 21:29:07 LiraNuna: you are also throttled by contention Jun 18 21:29:28 well, thing is that 3g seems to slow down a lot unless you have all bars Jun 18 21:29:30 LiraNuna: If you are the only one next to a 3G tower, your speed will be lots better than if there are 500 people browsing youtube Jun 18 21:30:23 ways to tell: student digs where users cannot install hardline broadband == lots of wireless 3g happening Jun 18 21:30:28 i've had 550KB/s with 3.5G :) Jun 18 21:30:44 I'm getting 10KB/s now Jun 18 21:30:52 15KB/s Jun 18 21:31:05 move your phone to the window Jun 18 21:31:20 I'm right next to an open door Jun 18 21:31:40 doors Jun 18 21:31:42 put your hand in the air Jun 18 21:31:46 doors != window Jun 18 21:31:47 wave it like you don't care Jun 18 21:31:49 like I just don't care? Jun 18 21:32:26 if I go outside I get 20kbps Jun 18 21:32:28 KB/s Jun 18 21:32:40 If i wantg a stable system do I want to install pr 1.2? Jun 18 21:32:53 yigal, 1.2 is stable Jun 18 21:33:00 I had no crashes/weird issues since installing Jun 18 21:33:07 Me neither. Jun 18 21:33:13 Well - that's not quite true. Jun 18 21:33:15 Sweet Jun 18 21:33:21 well, except that reception issues, but I think that's a HW issue Jun 18 21:33:22 Oh? Jun 18 21:33:25 But none that were probably not triggered by me doing wierd shit Jun 18 21:33:55 battery life seems to be worse on 1.2 Jun 18 21:34:03 Disagree personally Jun 18 21:34:15 not seeing a change Jun 18 21:34:16 battery life seems awesome with 1.2 Jun 18 21:34:25 I got 11hours of extensive usage yesterday Jun 18 21:34:36 GPS left and right, web browsing Jun 18 21:34:56 web over wifi? Jun 18 21:35:01 LiraNuna, i tohught gps gave a 3d position? :p Jun 18 21:35:06 so not just left and right Jun 18 21:35:07 no, 3G/2.5G Jun 18 21:35:24 SpeedEvil1, was driving from LA to SF Jun 18 21:35:35 Ok are instructions in FAQ of maemo.org for upgrade, or where? Jun 18 21:35:37 with frequent stops and excessive GPS usage Jun 18 21:35:38 you were driving and browsing? Jun 18 21:35:47 I was a passenger Jun 18 21:36:49 i am a passenger Jun 18 21:41:24 ok Jun 18 21:41:30 from here in G3.5 Jun 18 21:41:39 i can download at 500KB/s Jun 18 21:41:52 ok im out for a while Jun 18 21:41:58 gnite #maemo \o Jun 18 21:42:07 ( trying wget on ftp.de.kernel.org ) Jun 18 21:42:19 night lc Jun 18 21:42:21 uk Jun 18 21:49:49 is there any alternative sip client other than the default one that one can suggest on fremantle Jun 18 21:49:59 ? Jun 18 21:50:20 ( as the default one can't make calls without a registrar server ) Jun 18 21:51:20 you could install asterisk locally, couldn't you? Jun 18 21:53:14 satmd : of course i can Jun 18 21:53:34 but i think it is a bit too heavy to use asterisk as a client :) Jun 18 21:53:44 anyway, this is a possible work around, yes Jun 18 21:53:54 if the sip client does not register, it won't get incoming calls Jun 18 21:53:59 unless it has a static ip Jun 18 21:54:08 satmd : i have a dynamic dns :) Jun 18 21:54:34 satmd : and also a static ip via vpn if really needed :) Jun 18 21:54:43 :) Jun 18 21:56:32 using the gui to create new connections Jun 18 21:56:35 it doesn't let me create two different hsdpa config with two different apn Jun 18 21:56:46 bad thing. Jun 18 21:58:24 you want to add another apn? Jun 18 21:58:44 get fAPN Jun 18 21:58:49 :) Jun 18 21:59:16 i bet harmattan has MMS integrated care of frals Jun 18 21:59:36 http://techbuket.net/i-had-to-hammer-it-in-27.html Jun 18 22:00:04 flailingmonkey : goof point, it is in apt? Jun 18 22:00:09 yes, it is. Jun 18 22:04:46 Speedevil, that is teh funny Jun 18 22:08:02 * nextime is trying sip over hsdpa over vpn Jun 18 22:08:23 and it's a bit laggy maybe ? Jun 18 22:08:28 jitter is probably closing on infinity Jun 18 22:08:32 marmoute : i will say in few minutes Jun 18 22:09:09 theorically if you have less than 400ms of ping it is reasonable Jun 18 22:09:27 well, it's jitter that kills Jun 18 22:09:51 jacekowski : yep, but i hope to find an acceptable setup Jun 18 22:10:00 so you have like 200ms in one direction Jun 18 22:10:02 as my connection is very cheap if you don't use voip Jun 18 22:10:10 with 400ms buffer for jitter Jun 18 22:10:12 so, the only one way to use voip without pay too mutch Jun 18 22:10:17 is to pass it inside a vpn Jun 18 22:10:18 :) Jun 18 22:10:52 one of things that suck about voip ( sip ) is that it's not encrypted Jun 18 22:11:16 jacekowski : autmagically i get it also encrypted with openvpn :P Jun 18 22:11:54 jacekowski : anyway, there are both rtps, sip-tls and zrtp Jun 18 22:12:01 so, is there a wat to encrypt it Jun 18 22:12:06 *way Jun 18 22:12:25 sip-tls and zrtp are the best couple in my personal opinion Jun 18 22:18:19 jacekowski: not necessarily jitter kills. It depends on your client's jitterbuffer Jun 18 22:18:44 yeah - it requires jitterbuffer Jun 18 22:19:04 so you have 200ms delay + probably twice as much for jitterbuffer Jun 18 22:19:42 jacekowski: zrtp encrypts, but obviously both ends need to support it Jun 18 22:20:29 Also - PTT is much less jitter important Jun 18 22:20:40 Hmm. Jun 18 22:20:44 That would be interesting. Jun 18 22:20:50 A VOIP-PTT app Jun 18 22:21:12 hmm Jun 18 22:21:54 uhmm Jun 18 22:22:36 I'd suggest TCP-SIP/RTP then Jun 18 22:22:37 why are browser, osso-addressbook and hildon-something processes listening on TCP ports to 0.0.0.0? Jun 18 22:23:15 nextime: that means they will listen for connections on any interface Jun 18 22:23:29 What port Jun 18 22:23:41 Speedevil : i know what it mean, i'm asking why they ask on 0.0.0.0 Jun 18 22:24:00 s/ask/bind Jun 18 22:24:04 dbus? Jun 18 22:24:22 Speedevil : isn't 127.0.0.1 enough Jun 18 22:24:23 I'm unsure if dbus is using tcp or nx socket Jun 18 22:24:23 ? Jun 18 22:24:33 Is any SyncEvolution developer here? Jun 18 22:24:46 osso-conn 1251 user 20u IPv4 61657 TCP *:39501 (LISTEN) Jun 18 22:24:47 browser 1445 user 21u IPv4 61699 TCP *:39502 (LISTEN) Jun 18 22:24:52 hildon-st 1123 user 33u IPv4 61636 TCP *:39500 (LISTEN) Jun 18 22:25:00 those three ports Jun 18 22:25:16 yo, does anyone have a crack for the Sygic navigation soft? Jun 18 22:25:16 oh, that's cool... some security holes? ;-) Jun 18 22:26:10 kW : i don't think they are vulnerable to something, but listening without the need to listen from external connection is bad pratice :) Jun 18 22:26:14 wassup: warning Jun 18 22:26:19 wassup: this channel won't help you crack sygic Jun 18 22:26:32 ok....chill Jun 18 22:26:53 mostly developers here Jun 18 22:27:34 I respect that but I was under the impression this was an open source community. Jun 18 22:27:52 wassup: 2nd warning Jun 18 22:28:05 what did I do ???? Jun 18 22:28:06 /join warezzz Jun 18 22:28:20 DocScrutinizer: well, I think "I respect that but I was under the impression this was an open source community." is a legitimate provocation ;-) Jun 18 22:28:34 exactly Jun 18 22:28:41 mumble Jun 18 22:28:49 a silly provocation Jun 18 22:28:55 hey Jun 18 22:29:00 Just asking questions....no Jun 18 22:29:01 i can't find a configuration file where to restrict those listening port to 127.0.0.1 Jun 18 22:29:12 wassup: you're basically implying that open source communities are populated with pirates and criminals Jun 18 22:29:22 wassup, provoke-the-geeks-into-doing-what-you-want fail. Jun 18 22:29:22 I can supply a crack for only 70 euro! Jun 18 22:29:25 :) Jun 18 22:29:31 I'm not impying anything Jun 18 22:29:37 implying Jun 18 22:29:51 just stfu! Jun 18 22:29:55 (even if the laws involved aren't very just) Jun 18 22:30:01 wassup : for your information, usually open source community are against piracy Jun 18 22:30:02 DocScrutinizer: well, legitimate in the sense that it might be responded with with discussion, not necessarily with sanctions :-) Jun 18 22:30:19 wassup : why you need to pirate something if it is open source? Jun 18 22:30:33 no, that's really too errr, stupid Jun 18 22:30:38 usually, they want to create legal alternatives to paying Jun 18 22:30:48 But Sygic soft is not open source right? Jun 18 22:31:08 wassup : so, it doesn't fit on open source community Jun 18 22:31:08 wassup: right, and the developers are in this channel Jun 18 22:31:10 wassup: well, do you know a license for Sygic soft? Jun 18 22:31:12 so... Jun 18 22:31:50 I just wanted to try the soft and then buy it, is that wrong? Jun 18 22:31:59 wassup: the open source community is very much against copyright infringement Jun 18 22:32:00 anyway, i'm the only one that care about listening ports? Jun 18 22:32:12 wassup: The ovi store has a preview version Jun 18 22:32:13 so go to ovi and download the trial version Jun 18 22:32:13 wassup: open source is based on copyright; we take infringement very seriously Jun 18 22:32:18 yep, that's wrong Jun 18 22:32:33 nextime: Work out what the ports are first Jun 18 22:32:33 to answer the question Jun 18 22:32:46 Speedevil: he got the ports? Jun 18 22:32:47 Speedevil : i know what processes open it Jun 18 22:32:50 nextime: no, I also think that ports should be restricted (e.g. just bind to "::1") or protected (e.g. bind to "::", but have a firewall) Jun 18 22:32:58 but i don't know what those processes do exactly Jun 18 22:33:20 flailingmonkey: open source has nothing to do with "legal alternatives to paying" either FWIW Jun 18 22:33:26 kW : if i can't find a way to restrict those ports i will use iptables Jun 18 22:33:29 nextime: strace, tcpdump, ... Jun 18 22:33:29 flailingmonkey: I'm all for selling open source software Jun 18 22:33:55 I find it very ironic that out of all people you open source advocates would be the defenders of copyright. A little bit hypocritical are we not? Jun 18 22:33:56 flailingmonkey: as is anyone who is really part of the community ;) Jun 18 22:34:02 Speedevil : of course i'm trying with tcpdump but apparently no traffic on external interfaces Jun 18 22:34:08 wassup: again, open source is *based on copyright* Jun 18 22:34:22 Speedevil : i'm asking cause maybe here someone know what those processes do Jun 18 22:34:30 wassup: and while we may be opposed to copyright in principle, we also uphold the law Jun 18 22:34:46 nextime: you can do "tcpdump -ni lo" Jun 18 22:34:50 You guys want to have your cake and eat it too. Jun 18 22:35:03 luke-jr: indeed, I should have mentioned I was going from open source to "free software" Jun 18 22:35:11 open sores Jun 18 22:35:13 different, but related Jun 18 22:35:17 kW : i know, but i don't care on what they do, i assume that they are needed on localhost Jun 18 22:35:33 i want to find where to config those things to listen only on localhost Jun 18 22:35:34 :) Jun 18 22:35:42 luke-jr: well, that's not necessarily true for everybody here... ;-) I do not uphold the law to not ride a bike in the inner city between 11am and 8pm ;-) Jun 18 22:35:54 nextime: sure... Jun 18 22:36:18 flailingmonkey: there is indeed a difference, but I am speaking more from the free software side :) Jun 18 22:36:47 kW: I think for the free software community in general, we are fairly united on upholding copyright where it is law Jun 18 22:37:31 at least for software Jun 18 22:38:02 luke-jr: well, maybe as for the community, not necessarily as for (many) individuals Jun 18 22:38:50 kW: I find copyright infringers of software tend to be people who use (illegal copies of) proprietary software Jun 18 22:39:14 the most important free in free software is freedom to use/modify/change Jun 18 22:39:23 luke-jr: sure, infringing open source licenses as a private person is much more difficult to achieve ;-) Jun 18 22:39:41 kW: not much, actually Jun 18 22:40:11 but intentional infringement of free software licenses tends to be big companies who think they can just strong-arm anyone Jun 18 22:40:21 eg, Linksys, Nokia, nVidia Jun 18 22:40:29 Nokia at least got their act together Jun 18 22:40:38 Linksys just settled without really complying Jun 18 22:40:53 nVidia just gets away with it cuz everyone's too scared of the infamy they'll get from suing Jun 18 22:41:08 i believe the term is "admitted no wrongdoing" *rollseyes* Jun 18 22:41:34 flailingmonkey: hm? Jun 18 22:42:07 finally realized why my BT keyboard wasn't working with the n900 after all this time... it only supports SPP ... Jun 18 22:42:27 luke-jr: well, do you mean it is easy to infringe open source licenses as a private person? maybe you would copy binary software without copying the source... ;-) Jun 18 22:42:34 and I guess there isn't a serial keyboard mechanism on the n900 Jun 18 22:42:58 kW: publishing binaries without sources Jun 18 22:43:17 when all you do is build a binary from publicly available code, you don't usually think of posting a copy of the source Jun 18 22:43:20 greenfly: well, there is a serial port AFAIK... Jun 18 22:43:37 I'm able to pair it as an rfcomm device Jun 18 22:43:53 kW: also, technically the GPL requires you distribute the compiler binaries as part of the "source" if it isn't included with the OS IIRC Jun 18 22:43:56 but I suppose some other component is missing that would then cause keypresses to register Jun 18 22:44:06 Windows doesn't include compilers, but nobody bothers to distribute them with bins Jun 18 22:44:24 I think the n8xx had a special program kbbd or something for this Jun 18 22:44:29 at least from what I read Jun 18 22:45:15 luke-jr: well, AFAIK the GPL also allows you as a publisher to just "offer" the source code and deliver it upon request Jun 18 22:45:29 kW: yes, but then you're required to honour it for N years Jun 18 22:45:34 which means you need to keep track of it :) Jun 18 22:46:03 ok Jun 18 22:46:07 issue solved Jun 18 22:46:08 0 0 REJECT tcp -- !lo * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:39502 reject-with icmp-port-unreachable Jun 18 22:46:08 0 0 REJECT tcp -- !lo * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:39501 reject-with icmp-port-unreachable Jun 18 22:46:08 0 0 REJECT tcp -- !lo * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 tcp dpt:39500 reject-with icmp-port-unreachable Jun 18 22:46:10 :P Jun 18 22:47:46 anyone in the USA find a dumb car USB charger that works with N900 without shorting pins? Jun 18 22:47:49 luke-jr: sure... but if nobody demands the source code (and especially as a private person, you can have a bet on this), then there's no problem... and if someone demands the source code, they can either practically (although technically not satisfying the request) be redirected to the original source (where the publisher got it from), or sue for technically satisfying the request... usually it is not worth the court proceedings... Jun 18 22:48:05 I mean in a retail store, I need to pick one up tonight Jun 18 22:48:22 nevertheless, different question: Does anybody know how to programmatically access the contacts database? Jun 18 22:48:35 I found two in Microcenter, but they're only 500mA Jun 18 22:48:50 opdf2: well, I just thought about an active USB hub... Jun 18 22:49:23 I need something for the car Jun 18 22:50:26 opdf2: 500mA is fast charge Jun 18 22:50:31 kW: actually, they can't sue Jun 18 22:50:39 kW: the original author would need to sue ;) Jun 18 22:50:48 kW: they can if they are an original author. Jun 18 22:50:50 well I guess it really isnt 500mA because the battery level never changes Jun 18 22:51:02 luke-jr: well, AFAIK the receiver of the binary copy can sue, can't she? Jun 18 22:51:06 no Jun 18 22:51:12 the receipient has no legal status Jun 18 22:51:13 * Speedevil was pondering submitting some bit of code to the kernel, as it'd be easier. Jun 18 22:51:25 it's not their copyright thats being infringed Jun 18 22:51:28 so no Jun 18 22:51:30 Speedevil: I think I have a patch going in 2.6.36 ;) Jun 18 22:51:38 Speedevil: but it's too trivial to claim copyright on, I'm afraid Jun 18 22:51:42 luke-jr: why not, she has a binding contract, defined by the "license" Jun 18 22:51:43 kW: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_Address_Book_API Jun 18 22:52:07 kW: the contract is between each Copier and the Author Jun 18 22:52:15 kW: someone who doesn't make a copy has no contract Jun 18 22:52:24 someone who makes a copy only has a contract with the author Jun 18 22:52:54 luke-jr: What is it? Jun 18 22:53:03 Speedevil: trivial bugfix for p54spi on N8x0 Jun 18 22:53:10 ah Jun 18 22:53:27 well - that'd only be compiled on n8x0 - so it won't apply to most Jun 18 22:53:47 I'd like to port mergemem into a recent kernel. Jun 18 22:53:51 But - ... Jun 18 22:54:05 Core VM stuff is not a good place to start kernel hacking. Jun 18 22:54:33 Simply as mergemem strikes me as a good match to n900 - as n900 has a hardware hash unit Jun 18 22:55:34 luke-jr: well, maybe this particular issue depends on local law interpretation... If person B is bound by a contract stating "Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software Jun 18 22:55:35 interchange", then this binding can be, by the virtue that it requires B to perform "for any third party", enforced by any such third party Jun 18 22:58:22 Speedevil: mergemem is already mainline... afaik Jun 18 22:58:38 kW: but then you as 3rd party have to prove the copier actually has agreed in such contract. And that is in the domain of the original author who linked his work to the contract Jun 18 22:59:05 kW: how do you know the Copier distributed under the GPL? ;) Jun 18 22:59:17 he may have negotiated a new license with the Author since that time Jun 18 22:59:20 luke-jr: it's not Jun 18 22:59:23 excusing him from the source requirement Jun 18 23:00:19 DocScrutinizer: sure, I have to prove this... but some software publishers using GPLed software actually go the way of performing this offer (e.g. on their website) Jun 18 23:00:20 kW: the original author might have negotiated special conditions for the copier, allowing him to use the OA's work in a way different to the GPL Jun 18 23:00:20 luke-jr: the ksm - which is in some ways similar - is mainline. Jun 18 23:00:24 hai, is it possible to run mono/.net on maemo? Jun 18 23:01:32 i don't know if anyone has compiled it Jun 18 23:01:54 but I would see if there is an arm version compiled somewhere Jun 18 23:02:03 hmm, k Jun 18 23:02:33 Speedevil: same thing afaik Jun 18 23:02:45 http://www.mono-project.com/Maemo Jun 18 23:02:47 Speedevil: unless mergemem is the patented implementation Jun 18 23:03:23 DocScrutinizer: sure, but if person C gets the binary software from person B _and_ knows that it (that particular software copy) is GPLed, then person C can probably enforce this... judges may construct an inversion of evidence: "As the software _seems_ to be GPLed, person B must show it is not, or person B is bound by the GPL, or person B has infringed copyright, as per default, no software-copy without explicit author-agreement is regarded as legal (within Jun 18 23:03:23 luke-jr: it's not - mergemem used hashes. Jun 18 23:03:25 certain limits)." Jun 18 23:03:32 luke-jr: which is the patented apprach Jun 18 23:03:39 luke-jr: And in some ways superior. Jun 18 23:03:48 and KSM doesn't? Jun 18 23:03:50 luke-jr: no Jun 18 23:04:50 kW: even then, Recipient is only likely to be awarded his original purchase cost for damages Jun 18 23:05:39 * Speedevil turns Faithless up to 11. Jun 18 23:05:42 kW: granted Jun 18 23:05:58 kW: you noticed the link? Jun 18 23:07:25 DocScrutinizer: you mean the address book API? yes :-) Jun 18 23:09:20 luke-jr: depends on the jurisdiction... some jurisdictions know awarding a performance order... where the defendend has to perform (something different than paying money) or face daily penalties (e.g. pay money) Jun 18 23:10:36 DocScrutinizer: what I was more thinking of was some possibility to convert a given list of contacts into a format readable by the phone... Jun 18 23:11:18 kW: hmm, try vcard batch file Jun 18 23:11:58 DocScrutinizer: is there N900 software which imports batches of vcard files? Jun 18 23:12:00 kW: That would be awesome! 'You have to get all plaintiffs breakfast in bed every morning for the next year'. Jun 18 23:12:15 it's one file with a batch of vcards Jun 18 23:12:29 iirc Jun 18 23:12:57 and yes, iirc the contacts app has a menu for that Jun 18 23:13:24 or was it settings-sync? Jun 18 23:13:52 Speedevil: well, the court has to assess performability when awarding such an order Jun 18 23:17:28 i have to say, i really like motorola's styling sometimes .. http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/15/exclusive-motorola-droid-x-preview/ Jun 18 23:22:01 could someone point me out to why the SDK fails to install on ubuntu lucid? here is where the error starts http://pastebin.com/jm015aTr Jun 18 23:23:39 ~MaemoSDK Jun 18 23:23:40 maemosdk is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Jun 18 23:23:42 read the 10.04 notes Jun 18 23:24:53 great thank a lot Jun 18 23:25:02 thanks* Jun 18 23:25:14 AntiPudd1ng, no qwerty? sucks. Jun 18 23:25:26 thank him, not me http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=636394&postcount=8 Jun 18 23:30:27 uhmm Jun 18 23:30:28 not so bad Jun 18 23:30:30 8 packets transmitted, 8 packets received, 0% packet loss Jun 18 23:30:30 round-trip min/avg/max = 183.442/202.846/255.554 ms Jun 18 23:30:30 Nokia-N900-51-1:~# Jun 18 23:30:57 my asterisk server from the n900 over hsdpa inside an openvpn tunnel Jun 18 23:31:10 voip is working good Jun 18 23:32:19 Anyone know how to stop the N900 from continuous reboot? I just flashed the eMMC and then the firmware and it is just rebooting over and over Jun 18 23:33:19 From what I was reading online people said flashing it fixed it for them. Not for me lol Jun 18 23:34:44 Joey_Snowprano, flash it again Jun 18 23:34:48 ok Jun 18 23:35:02 Different question: how can I make the LED color different dependent on whether any message is pending to be read? Jun 18 23:35:02 does the order matter? emmc then firmware or no? Jun 18 23:36:01 why are you flashing emmc? Jun 18 23:36:48 because i reflashed the firmware first and it didn't fix the continuous reboot Jun 18 23:38:35 Joey_Snowprano: press the 'U' key while it is rebooting Jun 18 23:39:06 kW: Umm... mce Jun 18 23:39:42 kW: I would give you more information, but, my network connection is currently going at 128kbits, and my n900 is updating repo list. Jun 18 23:40:24 How do you call desktop widget ? Jun 18 23:40:33 Speedevil: hmm... well, the LED thing is not on the top priority list... but syncing contacts between N900 and some linux PIM package is... is this possible? Jun 18 23:42:07 no clue Jun 18 23:50:38 Ot goes Nokia screen...ugh Jun 18 23:53:20 just saw the google CL thing on slashdot, hopefully it will get to n900 :) Jun 18 23:54:55 kW: what's with LED? Jun 18 23:55:39 I have reflashed several times now and the N900 won't stop rebooting Jun 18 23:55:53 i take it you have removed the battery for 30sec Jun 18 23:56:03 Yeah Jun 18 23:56:14 DocScrutinizer: well, if I get a message by jabber, I think it would be fine if the LED actually indicated that a message is waiting Jun 18 23:56:16 Joey_Snowprano: if it doesn't stop rebooting, how did you flash anyway? Jun 18 23:56:33 holding U when turning it on Jun 18 23:56:39 Joey_Snowprano: ok Jun 18 23:56:39 then used the flasher program Jun 18 23:57:00 this reboot cycle isn't showing the 5 circles/dots like the previous one was Jun 18 23:57:12 it's just nokia screen, vibrate, blank, repeat Jun 18 23:57:39 mumble Jun 18 23:57:44 sounds like weak battery Jun 18 23:57:46 Joey_Snowprano: got a usd card in the slot? might be a good idea to remove it Jun 18 23:57:53 sim too Jun 18 23:57:54 * nextime doesn't understand why over vpn ping is working one way Jun 18 23:58:02 haven't tried removing sim Jun 18 23:58:07 ( but tcp connection work both way ) Jun 18 23:58:12 but i took the microsd card out Jun 18 23:58:17 hm.. Jun 18 23:58:27 regarding weak battery it was fully charged this morning Jun 18 23:58:31 not much else i can think of but doing a FULL reflash that actually erases everything Jun 18 23:58:38 i forget what its called Jun 18 23:58:39 halfway through day it was way lower then normal Jun 18 23:58:58 buttons stopped working, blue led kept flashing but I had no new message Jun 18 23:59:09 couldn't power it off only touch screen worked Jun 18 23:59:25 had to remove battery and put back in to get it boot up properly Jun 18 23:59:49 so now you flashed with empty battery ? Jun 19 00:00:18 no i charged battery to like 75% Jun 19 00:00:31 but then it did it again with the buttons not working and the battery wont charge Jun 19 00:00:38 i think the battery is screwed? Jun 19 00:00:46 * MohammadAGRX-51 scratches head, and says oops Jun 19 00:00:47 maybe Jun 19 00:00:54 does the n900 run without a battery? Jun 19 00:01:12 well it just stopped reboot cycle battery might be completley dead now lol Jun 19 00:01:26 no, must have battery Jun 19 00:01:42 hm.. yeah, testing a different battery is definitly something to try Jun 19 00:01:46 turned it back on and it's just continuous reboot again Jun 19 00:02:05 except this time with the 5 dots after nokia screen Jun 19 00:02:14 I don't know if N900 even charges a completely empty battery Jun 19 00:02:26 Psi: no Jun 19 00:03:03 flailingmonkey: it does. Usually Jun 19 00:03:09 for example, take battery out, plug in charger, you'll get nothing Jun 19 00:03:27 flailingmonkey: what's that? Jun 19 00:03:28 Is it possible to log out of maemo.org? Jun 19 00:03:33 DocScrutinizer: thought it needed to detect battery and some other stuff Jun 19 00:03:58 you thought right Jun 19 00:04:01 some people might think that you could run it without battery, if you have charger connected Jun 19 00:04:17 they will learn better Jun 19 00:04:24 Is it possible to use Maemo Window X Decoration on my PC ? Jun 19 00:04:27 like some laptops are able to, but thats not the case :) Jun 19 00:05:32 probably not, i think maemo uses a modified x server? plus all the hildon modified gtk+ stuff Jun 19 00:06:11 i am just talking out of my ass here though :P Jun 19 00:06:13 Joey_Snowprano: we had similar case a few days ago. Recharge your battery by any other means than N900. Will probably fix the issue Jun 19 00:06:24 ok Jun 19 00:06:28 brb Jun 19 00:06:39 Joey_Snowprano: your battery is empty, and reflashing in that state seems not to help Jun 19 00:06:50 yeah I gotta find a way to charge it Jun 19 00:07:01 does the n900 bat have a coulomb counter inside? Jun 19 00:07:20 http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility Jun 19 00:07:25 Psi: no Jun 19 00:07:30 Psi: no Jun 19 00:07:32 well that makes it easier Jun 19 00:07:44 makes no difference Jun 19 00:07:46 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter Jun 19 00:08:34 If i order a replacement battery you think it will come with enough charge on it? Jun 19 00:08:37 Joey_Snowprano: maybe the URL I posted gives you some ideas... Friends, brother.... Jun 19 00:08:59 Joey_Snowprano: if you have a multimeter you could measure the voltage of the battery Jun 19 00:09:12 Psi: won't help Jun 19 00:09:45 Joey_Snowprano: probably a freshly bought battery has enough capacity, yes Jun 19 00:09:59 i need a spare anyways Jun 19 00:10:01 There are also alternatives Jun 19 00:10:07 not the circumstances i wanted to get one though lol Jun 19 00:10:29 Joey_Snowprano: are you a technical guy? Jun 19 00:10:55 well enough Jun 19 00:11:21 its always good to visit the battery university :) http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ Jun 19 00:11:22 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-UNIVERSAL-CHARGER-MOBILES-CAMERA-PSP-BATTERY-/260618510061?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item3cae12deed - for example Jun 19 00:11:37 I would trust this to charge the battery for an hour or so. Jun 19 00:11:47 I would question if it's a good idea to use it regularly Jun 19 00:12:54 if it was me id probably just twist some wires around phone + and - terminals put battery in and connect wires to psu set at 3.8V, see if it booted then Jun 19 00:12:59 battery university suggests low voltage charger for lion Jun 19 00:13:43 Joey_Snowprano: I assume you'renot in Fife, Scotland? Jun 19 00:13:44 cycles lasts longer Jun 19 00:14:02 i.e. battery capacity Jun 19 00:15:05 lol no i am Orlando Florida Jun 19 00:16:17 Well - that'd make my offer to let you borrow a battery for 4 min less useful :) Jun 19 00:16:54 http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-21.htm Jun 19 00:20:18 am I risking loosing my google calendar notes if I sync through MFE? Jun 19 00:22:35 Joey_Snowprano: the reason this happens is probably the voltage of the battery is just high enough to make the phone think it can boot safely. but then when all the greedy stuff like backlight etc kicks in, the voltage drops under minimum level, and phone resets Jun 19 00:23:17 ok Jun 19 00:23:26 I would suggest trying connecting it to a computer first - not the wall charger Jun 19 00:23:39 this can cause it to charge a tiny bit more before trying to boot Jun 19 00:24:01 this isn't supposed to happen, as voltage of cell shouldn't drop that much. And also there should be reasonable hysteresis between the 2 thresholds Jun 19 00:24:13 yes Jun 19 00:24:55 and phone is supposed to enter an emergency charging mode without booting, when cell is really depleted Jun 19 00:25:27 It does - but it seems that the threshold is just a little wrong I guess Jun 19 00:25:37 Joey_Snowprano: Oh - also - I'd try takingthe SIM out Jun 19 00:25:45 yeah i took the sim out Jun 19 00:25:54 it does continuous reboot then eventually stops Jun 19 00:26:00 anyway shit happens, and if cell impedance is going a little up due to aging, or you got oxidized contacts, or tthe battery is cold or warm or it's full moon... Jun 19 00:26:03 phone wont charge while it's off though will it? Jun 19 00:26:10 Joey_Snowprano: yes, it will Jun 19 00:26:25 Try leaving it on charge overnight. Jun 19 00:26:35 Others have reported success when doing that Jun 19 00:26:37 ok wall charger or through usb on computer? Jun 19 00:26:48 Though Idon't understandwhy Jun 19 00:26:49 when it's charging it always has a yellow light Jun 19 00:27:17 I don'tthink it mattersmuch forthis - wallcharger? Jun 19 00:27:58 anyway if it keeps bootlooping, then it definitely won't charge Jun 19 00:28:05 yeah Jun 19 00:28:57 if you get it connected to charger or PC and staying quiet, then chances are it does charge Jun 19 00:29:44 wonder what caused this though Jun 19 00:29:53 wonder if it was the charger, the phone, or the battery Jun 19 00:30:04 only though if battery was in, when you connected to usb/charger. Inserting battery after connecting carger won't help Jun 19 00:30:51 Speedevil: (don't think it matters) wallcharger has D-short Jun 19 00:30:57 ->500 Jun 19 00:31:21 so definitely wallcharger Jun 19 00:31:24 I have to re-raise the question: does anybody successfully sync his contacts and calendar data with a linux desktop box? Jun 19 00:31:39 sync? nope Jun 19 00:31:58 though I heard legends it could be done Jun 19 00:32:27 Well... we have 15 years of history of portable digitale devices, and the sync-problem is still not solved... that's quite wird Jun 19 00:32:31 weird... Jun 19 00:32:41 yep Jun 19 00:32:43 :-S Jun 19 00:33:05 My take on that is vcard import export Jun 19 00:33:18 (I know the technology how to solve this, but I don't have time and resources to actually implement and advocate it...) Jun 19 00:33:46 but this effectively means that the user needs to keep track of which version of which vcard is current manually Jun 19 00:33:47 Kontact has vcard resource as an option for contacts database Jun 19 00:34:14 hmm, basically yes Jun 19 00:34:34 though vcard import never overwrites old contacts Jun 19 00:34:54 and at least Kontact can join contacts (iirc) Jun 19 00:35:19 hmm Jun 19 00:35:37 is this problem just nokia- or linux-specific or does it also exist in the windows world? Jun 19 00:36:29 uff Jun 19 00:36:52 i hate when networking isn't what should be Jun 19 00:37:03 and apparently for no reason Jun 19 00:38:42 bah it doesn't charge through computer when in USB mode does it? Jun 19 00:38:51 no orange led Jun 19 00:39:03 nevermind it's solid Jun 19 00:39:05 i'm an idiot Jun 19 00:42:39 computer is suboptimal. It'll charge with 100mA only and maybe the computer eventually decides to power off the USB. Use the wallcharger! Jun 19 00:43:01 emergency charging was designed with wallcharger in mind Jun 19 00:43:24 is it charging though with wallcharger when it just does continuous reboot? Jun 19 00:43:33 when i plug in wallcharger it automatically tries to boot up Jun 19 00:43:34 nope Jun 19 00:43:59 hmm, that's weird why it doesn't do that on PC then Jun 19 00:44:25 because i hold down U for PC and it goes into usb mode Jun 19 00:44:38 probably the higher charge current rises the voltage above the boot threshold Jun 19 00:45:04 it doesn't chatge in USB mode afaik Jun 19 00:45:10 charge Jun 19 00:45:29 and actually USB mode means the system booted cleanly Jun 19 00:45:49 ok Jun 19 00:46:15 so this is still a not completely understood issue Jun 19 00:46:21 lol Jun 19 00:46:46 are there chances your 97 flashs all failed? Jun 19 00:47:08 yeah Jun 19 00:47:43 how can I buy stuff on Ovi Store? I've tried half a dozen proxies from different countries and it always say "Sorry, this item is not available for your country". How can I buy Zen Bound? Jun 19 00:48:00 move to another country Jun 19 00:48:19 Joey_Snowprano: using 'u', you have been able to flash everything and still the system reboots all the time? Jun 19 00:48:38 I flashed firmware first and it didn't fix issue Jun 19 00:48:58 did emmc and firmware next Jun 19 00:49:02 and it didn't fix it either Jun 19 00:49:13 MohammadAG51: tried US, CZ, France, Germany, Sweden, China Jun 19 00:49:13 Joey_Snowprano: anyway, you might be able to "switch off" the device from usb mode. So it should enter a clean charging state which is basically a minimal system that's ACTing_DEAD Jun 19 00:49:16 but now i wonder if there was enough battery to sucessfully flash Jun 19 00:49:37 Joey_Snowprano: ah... you mean the flash failed? Jun 19 00:49:52 i didn't get any errors or anything Jun 19 00:50:02 windows eh? Jun 19 00:50:19 you typed the full path to the file right? Jun 19 00:50:19 the cmd prompt went through fine Jun 19 00:50:24 Joey_Snowprano: well, maybe you can confirm that you flashed correctly by reading the data from the device? Jun 19 00:50:25 yeah Jun 19 00:50:35 run cmd as administrator Jun 19 00:50:48 then cd into into the Maemo Flasher directory Jun 19 00:51:52 ok in the flasher directory Jun 19 00:52:37 double check the filenames of the two images you downloaded Jun 19 00:52:43 post them here Jun 19 00:52:48 pretty positive i typed full file path names correctly because I pressed tab and it automatically did the file Jun 19 00:53:04 yep Jun 19 00:53:14 RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM Jun 19 00:53:20 RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM Jun 19 00:53:28 failwale! Jun 19 00:53:34 they don't match Jun 19 00:53:34 uh oh Jun 19 00:54:03 did i download the wrong one? Jun 19 00:54:11 obviously? Jun 19 00:54:41 first time i have ever flashed using cmd so what did i do wrong? Jun 19 00:54:43 I'd guess the vanilla should have same version number? Jun 19 00:55:06 2010.13-2.VANILLA Jun 19 00:55:35 * AntiPudd1ng like s banana Jun 19 00:55:43 I guess is wrong. There should be a 2010.19 file, no? (not sure as I never did the 1.2 shuffle) Jun 19 00:56:51 There is eMMC content 1.2009.41-1 and eMMC content 10.2010.13-2 for the eMMC images Jun 19 00:56:59 DocScrutinizer: well, as far as I can recognize, I also used a 13-er emmc file and a 19-er PR file Jun 19 00:57:26 maybe the order i did was wrong? Jun 19 00:57:33 ok, so probably I'm wrong Jun 19 00:57:39 i did emmc then firmware Jun 19 00:57:48 I used RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Jun 19 00:57:49 you must NOT boot between the two flashes Jun 19 00:57:57 right combo Jun 19 00:58:09 indeed, follow the updated instructions Jun 19 00:58:19 yeah i did emmc without -R Jun 19 00:58:22 as long as you don't boot in between them it's rather meaningless which sequence Jun 19 00:58:23 then the firmware with -R Jun 19 00:58:24 Joey_Snowprano: why do you have a "1.002" in your filename? Jun 19 00:59:12 kW: ?? Jun 19 00:59:27 kw that's the USA release of the firmware 1.2 Jun 19 00:59:30 it just downloaded that way Jun 19 00:59:33 aah Jun 19 00:59:34 Joey_Snowprano: I see Jun 19 00:59:39 I used the global release in my case Jun 19 01:00:05 maybe i should try global? i don't know what differences there are Jun 19 01:00:13 Joey_Snowprano: maybe it is an idea to flash an older firmware, or meego for example, just to determine whether the problem is specific to the firmware version (or more specific to the device) Jun 19 01:00:23 I don't know either Jun 19 01:00:50 Oooh!!!! Jun 19 01:00:53 http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010/06/introducing-google-command-line-tool.html Jun 19 01:00:59 now i wonder if the battery has enough juice for it Jun 19 01:01:08 GoogleCL is a pure Python application that uses the Python gdata libraries to make Google Data API calls from the command line. Jun 19 01:01:28 I suggest you charge your battery. We had exactly same bootlooping madness here some 4 days ago. Was fixed with a new battery, and then it turned out the old was as good as the new one, after charging it Jun 19 01:01:35 Joey_Snowprano: well, once you can boot from any these firmwares, the battery problem should vanish Jun 19 01:01:54 ok Jun 19 01:02:17 i just don't know if it's charging in usb mode connected to PC Jun 19 01:02:24 because it just loops when i use wall charger Jun 19 01:02:39 and when you use 'U'? Jun 19 01:02:43 you'll see tomorrow. Is the indicator LED on? Jun 19 01:02:52 use U with wallcharger it didn't go into USB mode Jun 19 01:02:54 (can you unplug it from the computer after using 'U' and then use a wall charger?) Jun 19 01:03:35 or will it just reboot-cycle (or will it just shut off)? Jun 19 01:03:46 http://code.google.com/p/googlecl/wiki/ExampleScripts - who was wondering aabout google calendar stuff earlier? Jun 19 01:04:02 you'll see tomorrow. Is the indicator LED on? Jun 19 01:04:28 ok Jun 19 01:04:34 so i unplugged the usb from computer Jun 19 01:04:43 quickly plugged in wallcharger Jun 19 01:04:54 Joey_Snowprano: and...? :-) Jun 19 01:04:54 i now have a flashing orange led Jun 19 01:05:00 well, that's nice :-) Jun 19 01:05:07 and the device is not trying to boot lol Jun 19 01:05:07 very good Jun 19 01:05:41 is the flashing slow? Jun 19 01:05:46 yes it is Jun 19 01:06:17 well, this is an indicator that after fully recharging, you may be able to ordinarily boot the device, I believe Jun 19 01:06:25 ok Jun 19 01:06:26 because that slow flashing is actually "ACTDEAD"-mode AFAIK Jun 19 01:06:35 if you care, you shoild look after it every hour. as it might suddenly stop charging, or continue bootlooping or just do other weird things. If it's green in 3h you're done with the battery. Then redo flashing Jun 19 01:06:44 kW: yep Jun 19 01:06:47 kinda Jun 19 01:06:48 so it _did_ boot that far... Jun 19 01:07:18 ok so once greenlighted should I just reflash or try turning it on? Jun 19 01:07:30 well, doesn't matter, you can reflash for sure Jun 19 01:07:41 ok because i will have enough juice on the battery Jun 19 01:07:42 you'll probably turn it on anyway Jun 19 01:07:44 but you can also reflash later after looking what will happen :-) Jun 19 01:08:12 yep Jun 19 01:08:25 well this was fun Jun 19 01:08:52 i appreciate you guys taking the time to help brainstorm and troubleshoot this with me Jun 19 01:08:54 it's actually interesting if the bootloops are a borked system or simply the particular battery state alone Jun 19 01:09:02 DocScrutinizer: I had similar things with the openmoko freerunner... booting worked fine, until the GSM chip was powered on Jun 19 01:09:12 lol, yes Jun 19 01:09:27 (in case of a low battery) Jun 19 01:09:32 N900 and FR have quite some things in common :-P Jun 19 01:09:59 well, I'm just in the process of switching to the N900 because I want to loose some of the common things... ;-) Jun 19 01:10:31 :-D Jun 19 01:11:29 actually the FR charging was even worse than N900 hardware Jun 19 01:12:21 yes, but the FR could boot without battery... and charge then Jun 19 01:12:52 * DocScrutinizer wonders how long the capacitors would keep a state of the 1707, when battery is taken out Jun 19 01:13:08 kW: only after A6 Jun 19 01:13:13 with A6 Jun 19 01:13:22 during... Jun 19 01:13:29 nobody knows :-P Jun 19 01:13:42 DocScrutinizer: well, A6 seems to be the hardware revision of my freerunner "copy" Jun 19 01:13:43 C1707=100uF fixed it Jun 19 01:14:10 anyone know: if two towns are in the same rate center, does that imply they have the same local-calling-from areas? Jun 19 01:14:11 or was it 1767? Jun 19 01:14:43 well, I don't now :-) Jun 19 01:15:19 now that's a question no european user even knows the meaning of the words ;-P Jun 19 01:15:25 luke-jr: well, this depends probably on the country you are talking about... Jun 19 01:15:55 kW: Nebraska Jun 19 01:16:11 USA I *knew* it. 3rd world :-P Jun 19 01:16:15 DocScrutinizer: in thailand, it is possible to have long distance calls within the same prefix area Jun 19 01:16:48 luke-jr: well, I do not know how it is in Nebraska Jun 19 01:17:08 DocScrutinizer: you give the USA too much credit. *worse* than 3rd world Jun 19 01:17:22 prefix area != rate center Jun 19 01:17:31 I know 98% of Americans have really weird ideas about how telephone exchange works Jun 19 01:18:04 DocScrutinizer: well, "only" 1/6 of the U.S: population are below the poverty line Jun 19 01:18:49 http://www.localcallingguide.com/lca_exch.php?exch=119690 Jun 19 01:19:02 I honestly have no idea what a rate center might be Jun 19 01:19:57 and the idea to get charged for inbound minutes is like you're talking about the big fish swimming in the moon Jun 19 01:20:08 aka exchange? Jun 19 01:20:30 DocScrutinizer: I don't get charged for inbound minutes. Not even monthly. Jun 19 01:20:44 we got no exchange here, the way you Americans seem to think about them Jun 19 01:21:27 luke-jr: that's quite interesting: the local-call-graph is not even symmetric Jun 19 01:21:37 we also got no free municipal calls Jun 19 01:21:45 that is, there are cases where A calling B is a local call but B calling A is not Jun 19 01:22:31 DocScrutinizer: tell, how do you think americans think how exchanges work? Jun 19 01:23:36 I remeber some dude trying to explain to me about last 7 numbers, and local prefex being the next 3 or sth, and that's not area but exchange Jun 19 01:23:54 and allegedly the 7 is a fixed number of digits Jun 19 01:24:30 ther's no 6 digit numbers and no 8 digit numbers, and ahhh I don't remember, it was too weird Jun 19 01:24:39 DocScrutinizer: well, in france, there is also an attempt to make telephone numbers fixed length Jun 19 01:25:23 yeah, it's a nice to have, but has no impact whatsoever on how a call gets connected Jun 19 01:25:50 you start with the first digit, not with the last Jun 19 01:26:02 sure, it has no impact... and it has weird effects, such as companies which grow need to renumber everything, because the cannot just add more digits Jun 19 01:26:17 yep Jun 19 01:26:42 but they CAN do that, without breaking the scheme of their local exchange Jun 19 01:26:56 using "extensions"? Jun 19 01:27:37 I meant they CAN renumber and then add another 4 digits Jun 19 01:28:18 and the exchange won't care, as the exchange doesn't look at the digits after its own code Jun 19 01:29:12 actually nowadays you got the equivalent to a DNS, so every number can be everywhere Jun 19 01:30:21 I could move from south of Germany to North and technically *could* take my full number with me Jun 19 01:30:30 the equivalent... or actual DNS like e164.arpa? Jun 19 01:30:51 e164.arpa is mainly for SIP Jun 19 01:30:58 aiui Jun 19 01:31:08 but yes, exactly this type of thing Jun 19 01:31:11 well, you are not allowed to take your number with you if you, although it is technically possible Jun 19 01:31:22 yes Jun 19 01:32:01 except if you got a non-geographical number Jun 19 01:32:10 e.g a vanity number Jun 19 01:32:53 also really huge companies sometimes move to another town and keep their area code of ld town Jun 19 01:33:03 old* Jun 19 01:33:12 oh Jun 19 01:33:23 Siemens e.g. Jun 19 01:33:30 how much do you have to pay to get an areay of an area code modified? ;-) Jun 19 01:33:54 dunno Jun 19 01:33:54 in switzerland, they effectively removed the area codes altogether Jun 19 01:34:16 and luxemburg never had area codes Jun 19 01:34:23 hehe Jun 19 01:34:30 it had luxemburg Jun 19 01:34:37 small enough an area Jun 19 01:35:46 hmm, you're probably right Jun 19 01:36:08 in he former times (like the 70s) you could even tell if a number is north or south or any other quarter of a town. Not now Jun 19 01:36:17 you did not have an area-code-prefix (a '0') though Jun 19 01:37:10 in luxemburg? Jun 19 01:38:19 yes, AFAIK Jun 19 01:38:29 no surprise Jun 19 01:38:51 they had only one area, so no area code -> no area prefix Jun 19 01:40:22 this is what I was telling ;-) Jun 19 01:40:26 but I was wrong Jun 19 01:40:29 dialing the country code like +51 or whatever from anywhere in the world connects you to 'area' luxemburg. All you need is the base number then - probably 7 digits Jun 19 01:42:04 anyway tel number are read from left to right (if arabic), and not anything else Jun 19 01:42:24 and USA people sometimes seem to disagree on that Jun 19 01:42:50 DocScrutinizer: oh well, do they "type" the numbers in the same order as they read them? Jun 19 01:43:30 no idea Jun 19 01:43:39 hehe Jun 19 01:43:59 writing tel numbers in arabic is f'd up Jun 19 01:44:10 I use english numbers only Jun 19 01:44:55 MohammadAG51: probably what DocScrutinizer calls arabic _is_ what you call english Jun 19 01:44:58 but last time i saw an arabic number, it was LTR not RTL :) Jun 19 01:44:59 we got a nice system here: railway phone network. You need to skip from node to node. So depending where you are you get completely different 'numbers' to dial for same destination Jun 19 01:45:29 kW, wait... so I'm speaking dutch right now? Jun 19 01:46:13 DocScrutinizer: the same error everywhere (including the railway phone network), routing-information confused with identification information Jun 19 01:46:22 MohammadAG51: not necessarily, why? Jun 19 01:47:11 I just learn they are indian digits, in Europe known as indian-arabian digits o.O Jun 19 01:47:25 hehe Jun 19 01:48:33 * MohammadAG51 never knew indians had the same number "symbols" Jun 19 01:49:07 I'm puzzled. I'm using european version of indian-arabian digits :-o Jun 19 01:50:11 i'm confused Jun 19 01:50:13 lol Jun 19 01:50:24 actually the don't, but they seem to consist of 9 digits and a zero symbol often a dot or ring, and are written left to right base10 Jun 19 01:50:26 i also fell asleep for 3 mins Jun 19 01:50:32 so... night :) Jun 19 01:50:46 night Jun 19 01:51:22 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabische_Zahlen Jun 19 02:02:06 seems /sbin/preinit changed quite a it from 1.1.1 to 1.2 Jun 19 02:02:22 bit* Jun 19 02:04:19 kW: the bootmenu stuff was there in 1.1.1 as well Jun 19 02:08:37 DocScrutinizer: that could be Jun 19 02:23:18 Does the on-screen keyboard in pr1.2 not work in portrait mode? Jun 19 02:23:30 good morning Jun 19 02:26:40 dotblank: did it prior to pr1.2? Jun 19 02:27:02 ok got a green light now lol Jun 19 02:27:09 it worked prior Jun 19 02:27:16 dotblank: I'd guess in portrait it would get really small and tiny Jun 19 02:27:50 it had a different layout in portrait before 1.2 Jun 19 02:28:04 dotblank: so how would you invoke vkbd in portrait mode on 1.1.1? Jun 19 02:28:06 I want the old on screen keyboard back Jun 19 02:28:31 find an app that supported portrait find an empty text box Jun 19 02:28:35 Joey_Snowprano: so check now if it still bootloops Jun 19 02:28:36 then it would pop up Jun 19 02:28:49 tell me an app Jun 19 02:28:58 um.... Jun 19 02:28:58 I don't know a single one Jun 19 02:29:00 i am, just turned it on. It's on the 5 dots screen Jun 19 02:29:03 thinking Jun 19 02:29:12 and it loaded Jun 19 02:29:15 VICTORY! Jun 19 02:29:19 Oh i made one Jun 19 02:29:19 LOOOOL Jun 19 02:29:23 thats right Jun 19 02:29:39 got the qt 4.6 on a pr 1.1.1 device Jun 19 02:29:52 and I tested auto rotation Jun 19 02:30:09 Joey_Snowprano: so that's a FAT ticket :-P Jun 19 02:31:29 Thanks for the help Jun 19 02:31:46 Like sincerely thank you Jun 19 02:32:07 dotblank: right - 1.1.1 had no portrait mode (mostly) and afaik no way to invoke the vkbd in any of the 2.3 apps that (inofficially) supported portrait Jun 19 02:33:14 * DocScrutinizer wonders whether to drain his battery to the point of loopings Jun 19 02:37:25 find an app that supported portrait find an empty text box Jun 19 02:37:29 it just rotates the screen Jun 19 02:37:36 but the keyboard shows up for 2 seconds Jun 19 02:37:43 working like a champ now Jun 19 02:37:43 (swap duration) Jun 19 02:38:27 well battery icon is half black - guess I'll actually try my luck and see what's going to happen Jun 19 02:39:02 Joey_Snowprano: :-)) Jun 19 02:40:53 Migh have to make my own vkbd Jun 19 02:41:05 kinda important to have vkbd to work Jun 19 02:41:06 hi, can someone help me flash my device step by step, it died this morning when i was uninstalling some programs, i uninstalled a program called Linux Kernel for power users that came with an app called mobile hot spot, and then it just rebooted and the screen never came back Jun 19 02:41:35 oooohnoes Jun 19 02:42:19 one deja vu after the other Jun 19 02:43:02 rodald: you need to reflash rootfs (and kernel) Jun 19 02:43:13 and how do i do that? Jun 19 02:43:17 ~tell rodald about flashing Jun 19 02:44:27 right now i am trying to download the Nokia Software Updater, will it work? Jun 19 02:45:09 when you're thru with flashing, please go to the website of the mob. hotspot and shout at them as loud as you can Jun 19 02:45:42 i am planing to >:( Jun 19 02:47:55 rodald: you should use the flasher.3.5.1 or what it's called Jun 19 02:48:18 I gather NSU doesn't work for your problem Jun 19 02:50:00 should i use this one RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, this one RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or both of them Jun 19 02:50:21 the second one, COMBINED Jun 19 02:50:29 no need to flash EMMC Jun 19 02:50:45 what do you mean with combined Jun 19 02:50:50 What a bummer that vkbd only works in landscape Jun 19 02:50:56 im super sad :( Jun 19 02:51:05 rodald: look at the file name Jun 19 02:51:26 there's VANILLA and COMBINED Jun 19 02:51:39 ohhh sorry, thank you Jun 19 02:52:36 rodald: carefully study the wikipage infobot sent you Jun 19 02:53:14 one question will that one work if the firmware wasnt the PR 1.2 i had the one before that Jun 19 02:54:28 then you'd possibly prefer to use the 50.2009 some +/- version of the above file. Or you update to 1.2 'en passant' Jun 19 02:55:07 so yes, it will work - that's what 80% of people do to upgrade from your version to the new PR1.2 Jun 19 02:55:45 and how do i update to 1.2 with the VANILLA one Jun 19 02:55:55 just flash it Jun 19 02:56:16 nah, you don't need to upgrade the vanilla file Jun 19 02:56:24 just flash the combined Jun 19 02:57:04 so in conclusion i can use the X-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin even if it wasnt PR1.2 Jun 19 02:57:15 yes Jun 19 02:58:22 I hope you have a recent backup though. otherwise you'll need to install all your apps again Jun 19 02:59:12 well, maybe that's not the worst thing, as I guess there is at least one app you don't want to be restored after upgrade ;-D Jun 19 02:59:20 yes i do but i am having second toughts to do so because that will install the kernel i uninstalled again Jun 19 02:59:33 exactly **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 19 02:59:57 2010