**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 09 02:59:57 2010 Jul 09 03:14:23 wow. I see a LOT of new apps for my n800...I haven't checked it in a while, but didn't expect there to be that many new apps Jul 09 03:31:31 WormFood, I was suprised, too. Jul 09 03:31:36 It's nice to see, though. Jul 09 03:31:40 indeed Jul 09 03:32:06 if someone updates buildtorrent for maemo, some of my code will be included too :D Jul 09 03:33:18 Is it possible to bind a combination of keys to open dialing pad, or switch between vertical/horizontal view? Jul 09 03:33:49 I'm sure it is possible, but you may have to write your own software to do it. Jul 09 03:35:14 dima202, which keys do you want to use? Jul 09 03:36:40 I remember before, I had configured my N800 to install packages and stuff to my internal memory card, but I can't find the information on how to do that now. Does anyone have that info handy? (I'm currently searching on google, but haven't found the right combination of keywords yet) Jul 09 03:37:13 After installing my normal software packages (and I want to install more), I only have about 3 meg left of internal memory Jul 09 03:38:33 7 jaem ctrl + up for dial pad Jul 09 03:39:26 jaem: and ctrl + down for changing vertical/horizontal & disable sensor until reboot Jul 09 03:39:56 jaem: what do you htink? Jul 09 03:44:23 WormFood, http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card is what you're looking for, I believe. Jul 09 03:45:22 almost...I don't want to install the entire system to CF, I just want to install additional packages and stuff like that. Jul 09 03:45:23 dima202, I'm not sure how Fremantle handles global shortcuts - there's no GUI for configuring them, as in KDE software - but you might be able to just tweak something. Jul 09 03:45:26 I'm really not sure. Jul 09 03:45:37 WormFood, Hmm... I never saw anything like that for the N8x0 myself. Jul 09 03:45:52 aww, you raised my hopes for a minute there Jul 09 03:46:00 I'm pretty sure that is what I did before....and I'm pretty sure I didn't have to install the entire system to the flash card Jul 09 03:46:19 in fact, I KNOW I had software installs going to the CF card....but don't think it was the entire system Jul 09 03:47:16 maybe I did install the system to the flash card....but if I did, then my old system should still be there. Jul 09 03:47:51 WormFood, wait, CF? Jul 09 03:48:01 Also, what /is/ still there, then? Jul 09 03:48:37 I'm checking to see if the system is there Jul 09 03:48:41 everything is still there Jul 09 03:51:24 wow, lots of pics from my trip to Macau, that I copied from my girlfriend's camera....that I forgot to copy to my hard drive. Jul 09 03:52:02 that is one of the things I love about the N800, is the fact it has 2 CF slots....so I can copy pictures from a camera, without having a whole computer with me (laptop) Jul 09 03:54:13 `hmm Jul 09 03:54:24 looks liek T-Mobile's garden blocks TXT DNS replies Jul 09 03:54:30 including nstx protocol Jul 09 03:54:32 :/ Jul 09 03:54:54 is it possible to have N900 connected to both Wifi and 3G? Jul 09 03:56:05 luke-jr, technically, yes. Jul 09 03:56:17 But that kernel version doesn't have that feature. Jul 09 03:56:20 ... Jul 09 03:56:33 I'm surprised the kernel has such a limitation Jul 09 03:56:40 this would usually be a userland issue Jul 09 03:58:06 GAN900: any idea why standard *nix tools aren't in the Maemo repos? :/ Jul 09 03:58:11 Yeah, I was too. Jul 09 03:58:19 hhhmmm....maybe I didn't have all my packages installed to the flash card...I thought I did Jul 09 03:58:22 they are luke-jr Jul 09 03:58:27 luke-jr, fMMS has code for it you may want to look at. Jul 09 03:58:30 look in the right repo Jul 09 03:58:38 also, what "standard tools" are you looking for? Jul 09 03:58:43 luke-jr, tools repo from the SDK has some. Jul 09 03:58:51 WormFood: iproute2, tcpdump, dig, etc Jul 09 03:59:10 I'm pretty sure I saw tcpdump there Jul 09 04:02:06 it looks like it was ettercap I saw Jul 09 04:06:19 luke-jr, http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4&sort=hits&show_pck=145 I see tcpdump here Jul 09 04:06:34 nevermind, I'm getting around to installing Gentoo... Jul 09 04:14:11 hmm Jul 09 04:14:36 is there a good way to replace /home with a symlink to /media/gentoo/home or such? ;) Jul 09 04:15:06 damn this win7 bitlocker crap is still going. it has been hours Jul 09 04:20:45 what do you expect Macer? it is a microslop product....and it is dealing with encryption :P Jul 09 04:21:34 how can you honestly expect to have security out of any microslop product? Microsoft does not make products to USE, they make products to SELL. Jul 09 04:24:50 Why does conky show /home as full when it isn't? Jul 09 04:25:04 because it thinks it is full Jul 09 04:25:13 my conversations program also wouldnt save any incoming or outgoing texts because it thinks it is full to Jul 09 04:25:16 heh Jul 09 04:25:26 any ideaS? Jul 09 04:25:30 shorter: why don't you drop to the commend line and fix it? Jul 09 04:25:38 how? Jul 09 04:25:55 asj, I commend that suggestion Jul 09 04:25:57 I'm in another country right now, and it would really be nice if my phone stops failing Jul 09 04:26:06 well df -h Jul 09 04:26:08 shorter: run the X terminal Jul 09 04:26:09 doesnt show full Jul 09 04:26:18 another country eh? I think we're all in "another country" :P Jul 09 04:26:27 meaning traveling on vacation Jul 09 04:26:35 where are you? Jul 09 04:26:36 so I depend on this device (which now seems unfortunate) Jul 09 04:26:39 sweden Jul 09 04:26:50 I know, I know, you're directly above the center of the earth, right? Jul 09 04:26:52 all over europe soon Jul 09 04:26:57 shorter: df -h doesn't have any real relation to useage Jul 09 04:26:58 very funny Jul 09 04:27:05 sorry, du -sh Jul 09 04:27:06 I've never been to europe before....but I've been to Asia Jul 09 04:27:08 hm Jul 09 04:27:13 shorter: sorry, du that's what I meant Jul 09 04:27:16 WormFood: aes is aes Jul 09 04:27:21 oh Jul 09 04:27:29 it shows how full it is, though, right? Jul 09 04:27:31 Macer, but it is microsoft's implementation of aes Jul 09 04:27:46 I just flashed it for the first time a week ago when it bricked Jul 09 04:27:56 now it seems I'll have to agaian Jul 09 04:27:57 df -h does (funny enough) Jul 09 04:28:05 well I've tried that too Jul 09 04:28:12 so what Jul 09 04:28:19 shorter: how have you managed to put 2gigs of crap into /home? Jul 09 04:28:37 no idea Jul 09 04:28:42 I looked for it until my phone died yesterday Jul 09 04:28:47 does the aircrack-ng package have wesside-ng program? Jul 09 04:28:47 du -sh'ing every subdir Jul 09 04:28:51 and flashing the normal image doesn't flash /home Jul 09 04:28:52 to try to find where the bulk is Jul 09 04:29:00 shorter, try "du -sm *|sort -n Jul 09 04:29:11 on which dir? Jul 09 04:29:18 i should try aircrack-ng Jul 09 04:29:22 and see what it can pick up here Jul 09 04:29:23 you can start with root, and work your way down Jul 09 04:29:53 shorter: why not pastebin df -h for us? Jul 09 04:30:04 du -sm *|sort -n "no such file or dir" Jul 09 04:30:06 using wesside-ng the other day, I cracked the starbucks password in 1.33 minutes....I wonder how well the N800 would do it Jul 09 04:30:17 no "sort"? Jul 09 04:30:21 yeah df -h shows 1.9/2gig Jul 09 04:30:44 shorter: the whole thing Jul 09 04:31:00 root isnt full if that's what you're asking Jul 09 04:31:01 WormFood: whee did you get aircrack-ng from? Jul 09 04:31:05 the project page is empty of files Jul 09 04:31:12 would be quicker for me to just type it out to you Jul 09 04:31:47 everything mounted in /home and /usr show 1.9/2 Jul 09 04:31:50 in df -h Jul 09 04:31:54 shorter: nm then, how's /home/opt? Jul 09 04:31:58 same Jul 09 04:32:06 with du, how much used Jul 09 04:32:17 146mb i think Jul 09 04:32:32 and you've rebooted the phone? Jul 09 04:32:45 285mb* Jul 09 04:32:48 oh I have an idea Jul 09 04:32:49 a hundred times Jul 09 04:32:59 it's probably hidden under /home/user/MyDocs Jul 09 04:33:09 umount /home/user/MyDocs and do a du in there Jul 09 04:33:12 I followed some stupid recommendation on the forum and lost the ability to use Conversations and the address book is empty too Jul 09 04:33:36 that is why i never use forums Jul 09 04:33:36 heh Jul 09 04:33:41 except cyanogen forums Jul 09 04:33:43 those actually work :) Jul 09 04:34:01 * microlith gets ebview working in maemo Jul 09 04:34:31 uh, umount says invalid argument Jul 09 04:34:39 "umount /home/user/MyDocs" Jul 09 04:35:11 also, I deleted a 2gig file from MyDocs yesterday to ensure it wasn't taking up too much space (even though conky showed MyDocs as having more than enough left) Jul 09 04:36:14 hm Jul 09 04:36:21 nm it is in the dev repo Jul 09 04:36:28 let me see if i can hack neighbor's wifi Jul 09 04:36:29 do /opt and /home/opt have the same things in them or somesthing? Jul 09 04:36:40 asj? Jul 09 04:39:29 shorter: type "mount" what does the last line say? Jul 09 04:39:29 shorter: no, you don't understand. If there's a ~1.5gig file at /home/user/MyDocs/foobar then when /dev/mmcblk0p0 it'll "vanish" since you can no longer reach it Jul 09 04:39:31 but still consume 1.5gigs Jul 09 04:39:31 yes Jul 09 04:39:32 they are symlinks, they are the same thing Jul 09 04:44:08 ok Jul 09 04:44:16 WormFood: so what do i type to try to crack something? :) Jul 09 04:44:34 Macer, with what? Jul 09 04:44:41 aircrack-ng? wesside-ng? Jul 09 04:44:46 aircrack-ng Jul 09 04:44:54 i am going to try to crack my router Jul 09 04:45:22 Macer, first, collect enough packets....use kismet or whatever to capture the packets....then run aircrack-ng on that file Jul 09 04:45:30 if there is no traffic, you can't crack it Jul 09 04:45:51 there is always traffic... Jul 09 04:45:55 yeah Jul 09 04:45:59 it has traffic now ;) Jul 09 04:46:15 ok Jul 09 04:46:26 /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python-support on /usr/lib/python-support type bind (bind) -- is the last line of "mount" asj Jul 09 04:46:28 can anyone confirm what block size the eMMC has? Jul 09 04:46:33 you don't need to stop monitoring to try to crack it, you can just run aircrack-ng on the capture file Jul 09 04:46:50 if you're using kismet, I suggest you lock it to your channel Jul 09 04:46:58 Macer, are you using wep? Jul 09 04:47:01 no Jul 09 04:47:02 wpa2 Jul 09 04:47:08 then you'll have little luck Jul 09 04:47:14 lies! Jul 09 04:47:14 you'll need a password file Jul 09 04:47:21 oh wtf Jul 09 04:47:22 asj, you mean if I delete something in MyDocs, it will vanish but still take up the space? Jul 09 04:47:24 wep is easy to crack Jul 09 04:47:30 wep is trivial to crack really Jul 09 04:47:30 wtf uses wep nowadays? Jul 09 04:47:31 shorter: umm, you can see where /home/user/MyDocs is mounted? Jul 09 04:47:32 Macer: what makes you think WPA is crackable? Jul 09 04:47:33 wtf Jul 09 04:47:35 shorter: no Jul 09 04:47:36 * luke-jr uses WEP Jul 09 04:47:41 luke-jr: haha Jul 09 04:47:52 Macer, many people still use WEP, because not all devices support WPA Jul 09 04:48:02 then they should get new devices Jul 09 04:48:04 I don't liek WPA, it's too complicated Jul 09 04:48:17 too complicated? :) Jul 09 04:48:18 I don't need to keep people out either Jul 09 04:48:19 how so? Jul 09 04:48:24 even the nintendo ds doesn't do wpa Jul 09 04:48:27 Macer: it requires a supplicant Jul 09 04:48:37 asj: that is because the nintendo ds is a piece of shit Jul 09 04:48:45 luke-jr: wpa supplicant takes 1 min to set up Jul 09 04:48:52 Macer: it also works like crap Jul 09 04:48:55 Macer: mmm, but very popular Jul 09 04:48:58 I need to keep an open AP, as plausible deniability Jul 09 04:49:05 luke-jr: ok. fair enough. i'll give you that one ;) Jul 09 04:49:08 WormFood: I have a non-WEP SSID also Jul 09 04:49:12 or used to Jul 09 04:49:16 too lazy to set it up again Jul 09 04:49:28 doesn't aircrack-ng have like an auto brute force Jul 09 04:49:32 luke-jr, you really want to have fun? use an SSID in Chinese :D Jul 09 04:49:38 my idea was an open AP with 56k speeds, and WEP for uncapped Jul 09 04:49:41 where it just starts with a and works its way up? :) Jul 09 04:49:51 use “肏你妈” ;) Jul 09 04:50:07 Macer: that's the other app WormFood mentioned Jul 09 04:50:11 wesside-ng Jul 09 04:50:13 wesside-ng Jul 09 04:50:15 oh Jul 09 04:50:20 do they even have that for n900? Jul 09 04:50:39 it's part of aircrack-ng suite IIRC Jul 09 04:50:40 that makes cracking wep trivial....one time starbucks took 15 minutes to crack....the other day it took 1.3 minutes (different location) Jul 09 04:50:45 yes luke-jr Jul 09 04:51:02 but, I'm not sure if it is included in the aircrack-ng package...probably Jul 09 04:51:09 nope Jul 09 04:51:11 :/ Jul 09 04:51:11 i don't have it Jul 09 04:51:13 heh Jul 09 04:51:18 and i just installed aircrack-ng Jul 09 04:51:19 ah well Jul 09 04:51:20 then find it, and install it Jul 09 04:51:23 maybe some other day :) Jul 09 04:51:24 but srsly, block size of eMMC? :/ Jul 09 04:51:29 wesside-ng is a script kiddie's tool Jul 09 04:51:42 WormFood: who cares .. as long as it works Jul 09 04:51:47 luke-jr, you asking about hardware or software block sizes? Jul 09 04:51:54 Macer: I'm plotting to write a DNS tunnel to use internet without a cell subscription ;) Jul 09 04:52:05 WormFood: what I need to align partitions to :) Jul 09 04:52:05 hahahahaha Jul 09 04:52:08 Macer, it works very well....I cracked my 128 bit wep key on my network here in no time (10-15 minutes) Jul 09 04:52:12 that would be awesome Jul 09 04:52:22 i want to try to crack wpa Jul 09 04:52:23 :) Jul 09 04:52:32 good luck with that luke-jr....that is really nothing new. Jul 09 04:52:33 Macer: pretty sure it's possible; nstx does exist, but it uses TXT records which T-Mobile blocks Jul 09 04:52:45 WormFood: I'm going to use multiple A records probably Jul 09 04:52:53 they block txt records, just because of people like you Jul 09 04:52:56 depends what T-Mobile allows past Jul 09 04:53:01 there is no such thing as 128 bit web Jul 09 04:53:02 p Jul 09 04:53:07 and what can you do with multiple a records? Jul 09 04:53:07 106? Jul 09 04:53:17 I didn't say "web", I said "wep" Jul 09 04:53:25 WormFood: 20 octets at a time, rather than 4? Jul 09 04:53:27 yes - I typoed Jul 09 04:53:30 and it IS 128 bits Jul 09 04:53:35 there is no such thing as 128 bit WEP Jul 09 04:53:36 depends on how many A replies T-Mobile passes Jul 09 04:53:51 SpeedEvil, what the hell are you talking about? Jul 09 04:54:01 WormFood: the last 22 bits are calculatable Jul 09 04:54:06 SpeedEvil, are you on drugs again? does your mommy know you're on her computer? Jul 09 04:54:09 there's no 64bit wep either Jul 09 04:54:13 WormFood: WEP was intentionally flawed so it could be exported legally Jul 09 04:54:36 "64-bit" WEP is really 40-bit Jul 09 04:54:37 so what luke-jr, that does not mean it isn't 128 or 64 bits.....it is not an effective 128 or 64 bits (I think it is closer to an effective 56 or 112 bits) Jul 09 04:54:43 :( Jul 09 04:54:45 no, it is really 64-bits Jul 09 04:54:53 WormFood: you only need 40/106 bits to use it Jul 09 04:54:59 it is just that some of those bits are known....so it isn't effective 64 bits Jul 09 04:55:27 that does not negate the fact that you are wrong....it is a real 64/128 bits....it is an effective 40/106 bits Jul 09 04:55:51 128 bit WEP is totally incorrect IMO. Jul 09 04:55:58 WormFood: that's like counting the SSID as "bits" Jul 09 04:55:58 no it isn't SpeedEvil Jul 09 04:56:06 it is bits Jul 09 04:56:08 if it's known, it isn't part of the encryption Jul 09 04:56:12 and it is used as part of the key Jul 09 04:56:15 The key is 40 or 106 bits. Jul 09 04:56:22 yes it is part of the encryption Jul 09 04:56:27 The IV is not part of the key Jul 09 04:56:34 in any case! Jul 09 04:56:42 block size for partitions, please :( Jul 09 04:56:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wired_Equivalent_Privacy -- fight Jul 09 04:57:29 Standard 64-bit WEP uses a 40 bit key (also known as WEP-40),,,, Jul 09 04:57:53 A 128-bit WEP key is almost always entered by users as a string of 26 hexadecimal (base 16) characters (0-9 and A-F). Each character represents four bits of the key. 26 digits of four bits each gives 104 bits; adding the 24-bit IV produces the final 128-bit WEP key. Jul 09 04:59:06 slonopotamus: YAY Jul 09 04:59:17 slonopotamus: where be the Gentoo guide thus far? Jul 09 04:59:24 there are 64/128/256 bits used in the encryption.....just because some of the bits are known, does not mean they are not used as part of the key....I agree, it isn't an effective 64/128/256 bits, but those are the real bits used in the encryption engine Jul 09 05:00:25 you have real key bits, and effective key bits.....just because the key is effectively shorter, does not mean less of a key is being used Jul 09 05:00:26 luke-jr: uh? Jul 09 05:00:34 This is like arguing that my car can go to 999 miles an hour, as the speedometer has 3 digits. Jul 09 05:00:39 slonopotamus: want to install Gentoo Jul 09 05:00:44 not even close SpeedEvil Jul 09 05:01:08 SpeedEvil, admit it, your statements are technically wrong, but effectively correct Jul 09 05:01:19 luke-jr: ppl usually use google to find stuff. that doesn't work if you lose keys, however. Jul 09 05:01:39 slonopotamus: Google couldn't find it Jul 09 05:01:44 slonopotamus, sometimes you can use google to find your keys Jul 09 05:01:56 like if you lose your public rsa key, you may be able to find it with google :P Jul 09 05:01:57 I completely disagree that the IV is ever considered to add to the width of the key. Jul 09 05:02:08 it is part of the key. Jul 09 05:02:15 wtf Jul 09 05:02:19 that key is used in the encryption engine Jul 09 05:02:32 there is no way to relock a bitlocker drive once you unlock it? Jul 09 05:02:51 so you're saying, if you change the IV, and run that packet through the encryption engine again, you'll get the same output? Jul 09 05:03:18 luke-jr: if that's a joke, i don't get it. haven't drunk my morning coffee yet Jul 09 05:03:24 slonopotamus: it's not Jul 09 05:03:33 slonopotamus: I can't find anything on Gentoo N900 on Google Jul 09 05:03:48 oh, n900. Jul 09 05:04:02 http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprosecurity/thread/41607938-7452-440d-8253-67fe8657bc0f Jul 09 05:04:06 LOL Jul 09 05:04:08 SpeedEvil, do you know anything about encryption at all? seriously. have you ever written any encryption apps? (I have) Jul 09 05:04:21 yes, and yes. Jul 09 05:04:24 luke-jr: maybe because noone wrote it yet? Jul 09 05:04:29 And I'm going to bed, as it's 6AM. Jul 09 05:04:41 then how can you say what you do? what you're saying makes no sense, if you understand how this stuff works Jul 09 05:04:45 slonopotamus: o rly? :/ Jul 09 05:05:01 see ya l8r SpeedEvil....don't sleep too fast, or too evil :P Jul 09 05:07:38 Anyone know weather hildon-desktop in the Debian sid repositories is Diablo hildon-desktop or Fremantle hildon-desktop? Jul 09 05:08:44 Termana: rainy Jul 09 05:08:55 luke-jr: ya rly Jul 09 05:09:37 asj, what? Jul 09 05:09:47 Termana: the weather Jul 09 05:11:03 ah Jul 09 05:11:07 whether* Jul 09 05:11:08 :P Jul 09 05:11:48 Termana: this should answer your question http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/h/hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop_2.0.7.debian.1-1/changelog Jul 09 05:15:29 asj, how so? The last change was in 2008, but the last change for hildon-desktop_2.0.19.debian.1-3 is May 2010. Jul 09 05:15:53 The only indication I can see that the second package would be Fremantle's hildon-desktop is "New upstream snapshot" Jul 09 05:16:28 Termana: the dates seem pretty old Jul 09 05:20:10 slonopotamus: how did you partition your N900? Jul 09 05:20:22 slonopotamus: I'm doing 2 GB home, 2 GB vfat, 768 MB swap, 10 GB gentoo Jul 09 05:20:38 asj, how is May 2010 old? - http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/h/hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop_2.0.19.debian.1-3/changelog.txt Jul 09 05:20:54 :P Jul 09 05:23:17 luke-jr: you didn't want to _buy_ n900. smth changed? Jul 09 05:23:37 slonopotamus: surprise shipment from Nokia a week or so ago Jul 09 05:24:19 luke-jr: err... as a gift too? Jul 09 05:24:36 moo slonopotamus Jul 09 05:24:57 they sent him boobytrapped n900! Jul 09 05:24:58 RST38h: hai Jul 09 05:25:03 slonopotamus: I presume so. haven't received a bill, or even a "this is what we expect in return" for that matter Jul 09 05:25:24 :/ Jul 09 05:25:39 luke-jr: mine had "not for sale" sticker on box Jul 09 05:25:48 Nokia tried to send one of my friends an N810 as a gift, but chinese customs rejected it, twice. (he wrote the most popular ebook reader for nokia phones in China) Jul 09 05:25:58 ouch Jul 09 05:26:07 slonopotamus: you'd flip it? :P Jul 09 05:26:31 another surprise, today, was that T-Mobile has fairly good coverage here considering they claim I'm outside their service area Jul 09 05:26:45 (a friend mailed me an old SIM card of his) Jul 09 05:26:56 does maemo have encrypted loop support? Jul 09 05:27:10 luke-jr: w/e. i use n800 for gentoo stuff Jul 09 05:27:13 so i can mount an encrypted mydocs drive image? :) Jul 09 05:28:53 ah well. let me watch five minutes of heaven Jul 09 05:30:29 crazy northern ireland Jul 09 05:30:44 sorry for the delay, asj Jul 09 05:30:46 but what should I do? Jul 09 05:30:56 were you implied a certain course of action? Jul 09 05:31:32 to free up /home (why is this so hard on maemo- what is mysterious about what is taking all of the space? no other linux distro is like this) Jul 09 05:31:48 shorter: no other linux distro has a mere 2 GB disk space :P Jul 09 05:32:01 slonopotamus: w/e. I presume Nokia didn't gift a device for my own personal use Jul 09 05:32:04 :p Jul 09 05:33:31 luke-jr: so that's why you called me via jabber at 4am last week? Jul 09 05:33:41 lol yep Jul 09 05:34:10 i wasn't it talk mood for some reason Jul 09 05:35:16 oh well Jul 09 05:35:23 maybe next time I try 3 AM Jul 09 05:36:32 I've run plenty of linux servers with less than 1gig Jul 09 05:36:38 wtf, there is something seriously wrong Jul 09 05:36:43 i delete a sip account Jul 09 05:36:48 try to craete another and it says out of space Jul 09 05:36:54 fail Jul 09 05:36:55 where is all of this space going?! Jul 09 05:37:19 luke-jr, did you see asj and I talking above? Jul 09 05:37:29 he seemed to understand the issue, but I don' Jul 09 05:37:41 he says flashing the device won't fix /home Jul 09 05:37:45 du -x /home | sort -n Jul 09 05:38:36 okay, what part of the output do you want? Jul 09 05:38:38 shorter: type mount, do you see /home/user/MyDocs mount listed? Jul 09 05:40:06 nope Jul 09 05:40:47 shorter: do you have it connected via usb mass storage? Jul 09 05:40:57 oh yeah lol Jul 09 05:41:25 ok, you can't do any serious work on the phone while it's mounted via usb mass storage Jul 09 05:41:26 /dev/mmcblk0p1 on ....MyDocs Jul 09 05:42:01 yeah forgot I was just charging it Jul 09 05:42:16 with laptop cause my power adapter doesnt work in europe Jul 09 05:42:28 then don't put in ums, just click above for cancel Jul 09 05:42:41 k Jul 09 05:42:56 so what do i do? Jul 09 05:43:01 what that mount info Jul 09 05:43:10 /dev/mmcblk0p1 Jul 09 05:44:08 shorter: anyways, back to sqaure one, what's the first line of the command luke-jr had you run Jul 09 05:44:19 last* Jul 09 05:44:23 you had me running stuff before him Jul 09 05:44:30 du -x /home | sort -n Jul 09 05:44:31 shorter: the last line, please Jul 09 05:44:44 oh last line of the output Jul 09 05:45:07 1957884 /home Jul 09 05:45:23 shorter: ok, now: ls -lhA /home Jul 09 05:45:26 pastebin all the results Jul 09 05:46:13 never pastebin'd with the n900 before Jul 09 05:46:26 uhhh. it shows .apt-archive-cache Jul 09 05:46:34 lost+found, opt, and user Jul 09 05:47:16 and sizes Jul 09 05:48:11 3, 2, 40, 65 Jul 09 05:48:22 4k, 16k, 4k, and 4k Jul 09 05:50:42 luke-jr, those are the right ones right? Jul 09 05:50:50 ... Jul 09 05:51:02 oh, nm, I forgot how du works :) Jul 09 05:51:09 hmmm Jul 09 05:51:17 pastebin the last 25 lines of it XD Jul 09 05:52:56 with a userland recent enough (like, not the n900 :/) du -hs | sort -h :) Jul 09 05:54:25 luke-jr, you're saying to paste bin du -x /home | sort -n ? Jul 09 05:54:41 can I just tell you something about the output since I dont have pastebin or any space to install it Jul 09 05:58:53 shorter: just redirect output to a file than copy it somewhere else? Jul 09 05:59:10 then* Jul 09 05:59:23 you want to see the file sizes and directories, right? Jul 09 05:59:41 the last 5 lines: Jul 09 05:59:48 1900000 /home Jul 09 06:00:23 that's 1,900,000 /home Jul 09 06:00:35 1,600,000 /home/user Jul 09 06:00:51 1,600,000 /home/user/.osso.... Jul 09 06:01:06 290,000 /home/opt Jul 09 06:01:16 aproximate obviously luke-jr Jul 09 06:01:27 ls -lhA /home/user/.osso Jul 09 06:01:41 (and just tell us the sze of the big file) Jul 09 06:01:54 the name of it, too Jul 09 06:02:09 lol, yeah that too Jul 09 06:02:15 my favourite: du /home | grep -v MyDocs | sort -n | tail -50 Jul 09 06:02:31 ShadowJK: du -x works better Jul 09 06:02:45 My favourite is rm -r...... well you know the rest Jul 09 06:02:47 :P Jul 09 06:02:48 oh Jul 09 06:03:08 i guess -x is what on would want Jul 09 06:03:59 wait, does he have 1.6gig ~/.osso ? Jul 09 06:04:13 ShadowJK: yes Jul 09 06:04:42 wtf? Jul 09 06:05:07 mines 620k Jul 09 06:05:25 wait what Jul 09 06:05:29 ShadowJK: don't worry, when you get to puberty it'll grow bigger ;) Jul 09 06:05:32 I just did du -sh /home/user/.osso Jul 09 06:05:41 and mine says 616k Jul 09 06:06:27 I give up, going home Jul 09 06:06:31 lol Jul 09 06:06:46 well I'm kind of desparate here Jul 09 06:06:59 in a foreign country charging my phone using my laptop's battery and it can't store shit Jul 09 06:07:09 and flashing it won't fix the issue I'm told Jul 09 06:07:09 shorter: luke-jr is really nice, patience of saint, I'm sure he'll help you Jul 09 06:07:18 awesome, thanks Jul 09 06:07:23 and thank you too asj Jul 09 06:07:31 sarcasm doesn't work well on irc ;) Jul 09 06:07:38 shorter: just give me root ssh access and it'll be fine Jul 09 06:07:43 du -x /home/user/.osso then? Jul 09 06:07:52 asj: hopefully mine does Jul 09 06:07:53 :p Jul 09 06:09:14 maybe I can, hmm Jul 09 06:09:26 not sure if I'm firewalled Jul 09 06:09:29 shorter: I was joking FWIW Jul 09 06:09:32 okay Jul 09 06:10:01 uh :-) Jul 09 06:10:06 the biggest is "616" in that Jul 09 06:10:47 has your n900 crashed, unexpected reboots/resets or unexpected shutdowns? Jul 09 06:11:50 yeah, I had to flash it last week after it bricked Jul 09 06:11:57 it wouldnt start just spontaneously reboot Jul 09 06:12:34 Macer, I read that page on how to relock a bitlocker drive....that is too fuckin' funny...."Please temporarily restart the computer every time for security. Thank you for your understanding [that Microsoft products are complete shit]." Jul 09 06:13:08 luke-jr, do we know what i taking all of the space yet so I can delete it? Jul 09 06:13:11 did you flash emmc too at that time? Jul 09 06:13:15 nope Jul 09 06:13:32 WormFood: you can lock it from the command line ;) Jul 09 06:13:38 that's a little bit more down Jul 09 06:13:39 I know Jul 09 06:13:48 but still, a shit system, designed to be sold, and not used Jul 09 06:13:48 but yeah. the first response made me bust out laughing Jul 09 06:14:12 they don't give a fuck about security, they only care about getting that money out of your pocket Jul 09 06:14:42 uhm Jul 09 06:15:00 maybe.. but in order to get that money and avoid liability they have to produce something somewhat secure Jul 09 06:15:09 no they don't Jul 09 06:15:20 you there luke-jr? Jul 09 06:15:22 there is no such thing as "somewhat secure"....it is either secure, or it isn't Jul 09 06:15:24 * Macer stares at kde 1.0 Jul 09 06:15:25 no Jul 09 06:15:30 :) Jul 09 06:15:32 my hunch would be filesystem corruption from the crashes.. but I hope it isn't, only sane recovery is something like emmc flash Jul 09 06:15:56 there are plenty of problems with plenty of OSes Jul 09 06:16:07 if I install my system (N800) to a flash card, do I lose most of my internal storage? Jul 09 06:16:17 simply being vindictive towards windows for the sake of it is a silly idealogy Jul 09 06:16:28 the eemc flash will hurt the phone? Jul 09 06:16:33 face it man, windows is garbage Jul 09 06:16:40 they do a shit job, it is a shit os Jul 09 06:16:43 it isn't microsoft's problem that the rest of the world is playing catch up :) just like apple and the world trying to catch up to the iphone Jul 09 06:16:57 the iphone is also garbage Jul 09 06:17:01 i've seen plenty of opensource that is shit Jul 09 06:17:02 but nice looking garbage Jul 09 06:17:05 shorter: well it erases all your files on it Jul 09 06:17:07 err, no Jul 09 06:17:15 hey! windows/microsoft does not have a monopoly on shit software Jul 09 06:17:17 i have them on my laptop Jul 09 06:17:22 In my opinion Windows 7 is the least crap OS out there at the moment. Taking into account the software availability. Jul 09 06:17:25 there is shit everywhere! Jul 09 06:17:39 (and people keep editing the wiki, so it's never right on how to do it properly, either) Jul 09 06:17:42 There isn't a Microsoft OS that isn't shit Jul 09 06:17:53 There isn't an OS that isn't shit. Period. :D Jul 09 06:17:54 WormFood: the iphone is a nice device to use from both a user and developer standpoint Jul 09 06:17:56 MS Bob was ok ;-) Jul 09 06:18:02 Microsoft got into the software business to make applications, not OSes Jul 09 06:18:03 The same applies for phones. THey're all shit. Jul 09 06:18:04 MiXu-: lies! meego!! Jul 09 06:18:09 even their first OS they bought Jul 09 06:18:14 it is not pure marketing Jul 09 06:18:21 MeeGo isn't really out yet. (no products) Jul 09 06:18:22 windows is a shit design Jul 09 06:18:23 damn, I have to leave soon and I was hoping this would be fixed some I'm not phone-less Jul 09 06:18:33 they didn't learn from their mistakes Jul 09 06:18:37 WormFood: sorry but now you're just trolling Jul 09 06:18:43 :) Jul 09 06:18:48 their mistakes remain intact for backwards compatability with other shit before it Jul 09 06:18:50 ANYWAYS Jul 09 06:19:01 now look at how fuckin' bloated Windows is Jul 09 06:19:33 Windows has gone far beyond the functions of an OS, now it is a platform for making money off you Jul 09 06:19:42 :) bloated as in what? how much are 1TB hard drives nowadays? Jul 09 06:19:45 I'll care when you can more accurately and less profanely make your point Jul 09 06:19:46 Nobody cares about bloat. As long as it works, and 7 does it's job pretty decently. Jul 09 06:19:49 640K is enough! Jul 09 06:19:59 and it was -always- like that Jul 09 06:20:05 bloated doesn't matter anymore Jul 09 06:20:06 does not matter....it sucks up 10 gig for a base install Jul 09 06:20:14 WormFood: Who cares? Jul 09 06:20:18 WormFood: wow.. 10 whole gigabytes? :) Jul 09 06:20:39 it matters when it comes to my N800 Jul 09 06:20:41 10GB for an OS is rather... big Jul 09 06:20:42 what will i do without all that space it takes up on my 2TB hd Jul 09 06:20:44 haha Jul 09 06:21:16 and honestly, windows doesn't even have a compiler to show for it Jul 09 06:21:17 not "big"....it is fuckin huge! Jul 09 06:21:26 i'm sorry. but i don't buy into the "it is bloated" argument Jul 09 06:21:29 no, if you want a compiler, that is another $600 Jul 09 06:21:30 ml-mobile: Again, a point that nobody really cares about :) Jul 09 06:21:34 who cares ... ram is cheap and hardware is cheap Jul 09 06:21:42 what the fuck can they be doing with 10 gig of shit? Jul 09 06:21:48 i'll run linux on s ome 1990 dx2 or something if it's that serious Jul 09 06:21:48 Devs are another story but if you guys haven't noticed, it's all about users these days. Jul 09 06:21:49 I mean, think about it for a minute Jul 09 06:21:52 10 fuckin' gig Jul 09 06:21:53 MiXu-: I do, it's not microsoft's space to waste Jul 09 06:21:53 for an OS Jul 09 06:21:54 :) Jul 09 06:22:06 otherwise i'll go ahead and spend the $100 for more ram and space Jul 09 06:22:20 I installed windows 7 on a 10 gig drive, that I had laying around, and had less than 100 meg of free space Jul 09 06:22:33 HAHAHAHA Jul 09 06:22:36 yes, hardware is cheap, so lets all go out and buy more fuckin' hardware Jul 09 06:22:38 shenanigans Jul 09 06:22:44 I had Windows 7 installed on a 4GB SSD and had no problems with it. Jul 09 06:22:50 yes, it does not matter ,that you have an old computer, buy a new one Jul 09 06:22:50 Needed some tweaking though. Jul 09 06:22:51 I doubt it would let you install Jul 09 06:23:06 it will let you install on 10 gig...try it Jul 09 06:23:11 anyways, I need to do some work Jul 09 06:23:20 it isn't microsoft's fault that you have some 20 year old hard drive that you are still trying to use Jul 09 06:23:23 :) Jul 09 06:23:39 i mean cmon Jul 09 06:23:52 does not matter Jul 09 06:23:55 "i dug up some old hardware to run the end user OS that came out in 2009" Jul 09 06:23:59 not everyone wants to buy new hardware Jul 09 06:24:01 that is idiotic Jul 09 06:24:01 MeeGo is crap because it doesn't run on Nokia N70! Jul 09 06:24:06 some of use want to use existing hardware we already have Jul 09 06:24:12 installing it on a 10GB drive is silly, but again, the space isn't microsoft's to waste Jul 09 06:24:35 WormFood: well. it isn't microsoft's fault that you don't want to buy new hardware to keep up with software Jul 09 06:24:45 WormFood: Then use the existing SW that you had when you bought the crap HW. Jul 09 06:24:49 yes, it is sorta still....outside of the fact, i should be able to have a usable system on a 10 gig drive Jul 09 06:24:54 that said, I wonder if the space reporting isn't being oberblown by WinSxS Jul 09 06:25:00 that is like saying you have some video card from 1990 and are pissed compiz doesn't work Jul 09 06:25:11 it is a stupid argument Jul 09 06:25:13 yes Jul 09 06:25:32 it is an OS....OSes are not supposed to be fuckin' huge Jul 09 06:25:36 some of us want to use 128MB of ram and a dx2/50 with a 10G hard drive Jul 09 06:25:48 with an os that came out in the later half of the 2000s Jul 09 06:26:19 and I can use a dx2/50 with 128 meg of ram with Linux, and have the machine do something too Jul 09 06:26:35 and runnign even linux on it will run like shit Jul 09 06:26:36 heh Jul 09 06:26:38 Macer, I think the point WormFood is trying to make is specific to storage. If you were talking about processors or other things, I'd agree with you entirely. Jul 09 06:26:44 Who are you to say what OS's are "supposed to be"? :) Jul 09 06:26:49 Old machine == junk to some point, yes Jul 09 06:26:54 But bits are bits Jul 09 06:27:06 I'm talking about the fact that is is bloated, and goes far beyond what an OS is supposed to do Jul 09 06:27:09 I'm not saying I necessarily think it's bloated myself, but it is a idfferent matter Jul 09 06:27:13 I almost care enough to boot my work laptop and check the W7 install size Jul 09 06:27:21 it isn't a kernel WormFood Jul 09 06:27:25 it is a FULL end user OS :) Jul 09 06:27:34 which is meant to run with as much hardware as possible Jul 09 06:27:41 for users who are idiots Jul 09 06:27:43 what fuckin' business does a web browser have doing in an OS? Jul 09 06:27:46 heh Jul 09 06:27:55 a god damn web browser isn't part of an OS Jul 09 06:27:57 WormFood, Helping break the Internet? Jul 09 06:28:08 WormFood: well. the majority of people use web browsers :) Jul 09 06:28:12 Macer: which is sloppy, flooding the disk with unused drivers ;) Jul 09 06:28:25 It would be a pain in the ass to install a browser if the OS didn't have one to begin with. Jul 09 06:28:27 so what Macer, it is not part of an OS...it is an application Jul 09 06:28:29 ml-mobile: oh i agree.. but it is an os for the masses Jul 09 06:28:34 MiXu-, why? wget! :D Jul 09 06:28:35 MiXu-, I used to do it all the time Jul 09 06:28:36 * jaem is kidding Jul 09 06:28:38 ls is an application too isn't it? Jul 09 06:28:40 :) Jul 09 06:28:48 jaem: I almost laughed ;) Jul 09 06:28:48 Anyhow, I'm too tired to argue. Have a good {n,f}ight Jul 09 06:28:58 jaem: haha Jul 09 06:28:58 in fact, I showed my mom how to download netscape (back in the old days), without using a web browser Jul 09 06:28:59 MiXu-, Seriously, though, I wish Windows had wget. Jul 09 06:29:00 and no, IE is not part of the OS, that was a lie to dodge federal prosecution Jul 09 06:29:13 Inasmuch as IE is a tool for downloading Firefox, wget is much slimmer. Jul 09 06:29:14 I know that ml-mobile Jul 09 06:29:17 -snerk- Jul 09 06:29:23 jaem: Me too. But 99% of it's users have never heard of wget :) Jul 09 06:29:24 jaem: hahaha Jul 09 06:29:25 just use ftp, it is part of winblows too Jul 09 06:29:28 and would never use it Jul 09 06:29:37 99% of users are fuckin' droolin' idiots Jul 09 06:29:42 you can install wget in windows :) Jul 09 06:29:44 heh Jul 09 06:29:44 MiXu-, Yes, I know, and I'm kidding. Jul 09 06:29:51 I'm just saying that I actually find the lack frustrating Jul 09 06:29:53 Anyhow, night Jul 09 06:29:59 'night jaem Jul 09 06:30:02 WormFood: Which is why software is built for drooling idiots. Jul 09 06:30:13 And not geeks and devs. Jul 09 06:30:23 and i bet it is entirely possible to create your own install cd/dvd slimmed down Jul 09 06:30:23 hi Jul 09 06:30:28 have you ever tried that WormFood ? :) Jul 09 06:30:34 curl is better Jul 09 06:30:35 you can probably get it down to 4MB Jul 09 06:30:46 so you can have plenty of space on that 10GB hd Jul 09 06:30:47 4 meg of what? license agreements? Jul 09 06:30:48 Macer: dubious, what with WGA Jul 09 06:31:03 WormFood: you can remove that as well Jul 09 06:31:07 As I said earlier. Windows 7 is easily slimmed down to fit on a 4GB drive. Jul 09 06:31:29 it is easy to cut the fat off win7 pretty well and create your own install disc Jul 09 06:31:30 oh, i mustve joined the wrong channel, didnt realise this was #hatemicrosoft Jul 09 06:31:36 4GB is small now? Jul 09 06:31:43 one shouldn't need to cut off the fat Jul 09 06:31:50 if you want fat, you should install it yourself Jul 09 06:32:03 WormFood: uhm. you have to with linux too... you have choices in debian on what kind of system you are going to be running Jul 09 06:32:11 have you ever installed x11 dev stuff? Jul 09 06:32:14 i love people who are not part of the target group is whining about something not fitting them Jul 09 06:32:26 heh. anyways. going to smoke. bbl Jul 09 06:33:01 +when somewhere in the previous line Jul 09 06:33:05 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements Jul 09 06:33:11 ok now bbl :) Jul 09 06:33:15 frals: technically, MS's target audience is everyo Jul 09 06:33:21 +ne Jul 09 06:33:38 heh. anyways. going to smoke some cawk. bbl <-- There, I fixed it for you Jul 09 06:34:17 now you're trolling Jul 09 06:34:22 whoa there. don't take up all that bandwidth on your 1200bps modem you didn't want to give up :) Jul 09 06:34:29 ml-mobile, I've known Macer for years Jul 09 06:34:41 we're friends on another channel, on another network Jul 09 06:35:01 yeah but they don't talk like that here WormFood ;) not that kind of # Jul 09 06:35:16 Macer, Actually, first time I was on the web, was on a 1200 baud modem (or was it 300 baud?) Jul 09 06:35:27 still have it? Jul 09 06:35:32 no Jul 09 06:35:35 I traded it Jul 09 06:35:42 for a cable modem? Jul 09 06:35:44 :) Jul 09 06:35:47 I found the modem online not too long ago Jul 09 06:35:58 no, for a battery powered 300 baud modem (for a laptop) Jul 09 06:36:13 thinking of hacking the wopr? Jul 09 06:36:27 you need 4800 baud to get into that Jul 09 06:36:39 be careful. i hear the government might be running systems with larger hard drives than 10G nowadays Jul 09 06:37:03 hahaha....I came into work one day, and my boss was so proud of the computer system he had just bought Jul 09 06:37:08 I could barely get in the door Jul 09 06:37:12 it was fuckin' HUGE Jul 09 06:37:12 arpanet is a whole new beast from what i've heard.. i could be wrong though :) Jul 09 06:37:50 it had a 5 MEG hard drive, the size of a washing machine....it used a 220 volt, external (to the drive) motor, with a belt to spin the platters Jul 09 06:38:09 I laughed my ass off, because he just threw away $100 Jul 09 06:38:32 hey. i wouldn't mind having a wang :-P Jul 09 06:38:49 hahaha Jul 09 06:38:58 wow that didn't sound right Jul 09 06:38:59 :) Jul 09 06:39:17 easy girl, one day you will get a wang....but then you won't know what to do with it Jul 09 06:39:28 there was one at a place we used to work at... i think someone threw it out and a car hit it and was totaled Jul 09 06:39:36 the car that is Jul 09 06:40:27 does fremantle dev still use scratchbox? Jul 09 06:41:00 i should set it up so i can build little things that i want Jul 09 06:41:14 Not necessarily. There's also Nokia Qt SDK if you do Qt. Jul 09 06:41:24 And have an N900 Jul 09 06:41:48 every time i tried building on the n810 it always ended in failure Jul 09 06:42:06 i tried to get dpkg to work on it one (week) and just couldn't get it going :) Jul 09 06:42:16 in SB? Jul 09 06:42:20 no Jul 09 06:42:22 on the n810 itself Jul 09 06:42:24 Ah Jul 09 06:42:35 has anyone installed their os on a flash card, on the N800? Do I NEED to partition the card? Jul 09 06:42:36 I've never tried compiling on device. Jul 09 06:42:57 i could compile. it is just that the libs and deps were too much of a pain Jul 09 06:43:09 it was a huge cascading effect Jul 09 06:43:28 on a flash card? Jul 09 06:43:36 the SD? Jul 09 06:43:41 yes you NEED to Jul 09 06:43:43 yes Jul 09 06:44:05 fuck! I hate doing shit like that.....not that is is hard, in fact it is trivial....but changing it as a pain in the ass Jul 09 06:44:18 windows would partition it automatically for you if it ran on the n800 :-P Jul 09 06:44:36 I mean...if I decide I want to change partition sizes, it is a pain in the ass Jul 09 06:44:38 you could probably find a script that does everything for you Jul 09 06:44:41 at least I have a 4 gig card Jul 09 06:44:51 but i think the partitioning always has to be done by hand.. i could be wrong tho Jul 09 06:44:58 it has been a while since i've had my n8x0 Jul 09 06:45:03 it is no big deal....I'll just partition it....I suppose 1 gig would be enough for the system, and the rest for storage Jul 09 06:45:18 i had an n800 and an n810.. i have no idea wtf i did with the n810. it's probably behind a dresser or something Jul 09 06:45:34 WormFood: you need a small fat partition too Jul 09 06:45:40 depending on how you want to use the swap Jul 09 06:45:42 or maybe it is up your....oohhh, right, not that kind of # Jul 09 06:45:47 maybe a swap partition Jul 09 06:46:00 Actually, the windows installer has a bug which makes it crash/hang seeing non-windows partitions, so you have to repartition manually with something else first ;-) Jul 09 06:46:10 what the fuck do I need a FAT partition for? I don't have any FAT partitions now. Jul 09 06:46:15 ShadowJK: hahahaha! i was waiting for someone to say it Jul 09 06:47:17 WormFood: i remember there being a reason why... just can't remember what it was Jul 09 06:47:18 asdffadfafdsfdf Jul 09 06:47:28 oops Jul 09 06:47:34 hmm Jul 09 06:49:02 i know if you are using maemo4 you can either set up a swap partition or you can use a swap file on the internal sd fat partition Jul 09 06:49:21 man I love mappero v3.0+beta8 Jul 09 06:49:37 what the hell happened to mer? wasn't that supposed to be fremantle on n8x0 Jul 09 06:49:38 ? Jul 09 06:50:03 Macer: feel you, n8x0 roxs Jul 09 06:50:41 well. it is a little dated but still :) Jul 09 06:50:41 is there an easy method to create desktop shortcut to pdf? Jul 09 06:51:09 yigal: mer says that it has become meego Jul 09 06:51:18 Macer: interesting Jul 09 06:51:35 I'm just starting to appreciate Freemantle Jul 09 06:51:57 well. mer was supposed to be fremantle for n8x0 Jul 09 06:51:59 did you know one can search emails using Modest Jul 09 06:52:12 just by typing in the phrase one seeks, very simple and useful Jul 09 06:52:35 i don't like that modest doesn't have an option on storing the sent stuff on the imap server Jul 09 06:52:51 there is no option to change its local sent directory to something else Jul 09 06:53:15 right, and I would like to be able to switch immediately to the inbox of different imap accounts Jul 09 06:53:15 so you have to manually copy them over .. and if you do it later.. then they get changed timestamps on the imap server to the date they were copied to it Jul 09 06:53:18 but owell Jul 09 06:53:35 never said it was perfect, lmao Jul 09 06:53:36 yeah. it's rough.. but overall i guess it gets the job done Jul 09 06:53:39 :) Jul 09 06:54:02 i just hope meego takes the n900 and turns it into an actual phone instead of an internet tablet with a phone on it Jul 09 06:54:12 for me the n900 is really powerful Jul 09 06:54:15 Macer: really? Jul 09 06:54:19 with like.. portrait mode Jul 09 06:54:21 i dont need an actual phone Jul 09 06:54:33 I down with ShadowJK's take Jul 09 06:54:33 modest improvements -> http://gitorious.org/modest Jul 09 06:54:38 if I wanted to talk to people I'd get a Nokia 1200 Jul 09 06:54:48 haha Jul 09 06:55:04 ShadowJK: well. i think it isn't really the fact about the phone part as it is more so the fact that some things are easier done in portrait mode Jul 09 06:55:14 but i am not going to start another portrait v landscape divorce here :) Jul 09 06:55:27 mypaint taking notes etc. with bt headset is perfect on the n900 Jul 09 06:55:45 but interfacing with the device... some consideration should have been given to pulling the thing out of your pocket and being able to one hand and thumb a couple of things Jul 09 06:55:49 I don't really care what "mode" it's in Jul 09 06:55:51 instead of the kung fu twist you need to learn Jul 09 06:56:34 hmm, interesting thought Jul 09 06:56:35 It's been a long time since I've been able to do that with any phone :) Jul 09 06:57:10 or rather, approximately since they started putting headphone ports on top of phone so you have to flip them after retrieving them out of pocket :P Jul 09 06:57:27 I like the fact that I can take inked notes on the same device as I'm having a phone call with Jul 09 06:57:57 I can also record the conversation if I feel like it Jul 09 06:58:19 whether it's in portrait or landscape is really inconsequential to me Jul 09 06:58:31 but i understand how to others it isn't Jul 09 06:58:44 * ShadowJK does about 2 voice calls Jul 09 06:58:49 per month Jul 09 06:59:00 6 if telemarketes count :( Jul 09 06:59:45 well it sounds rather streamlined Jul 09 07:00:14 I have roughly 6 calls/day Jul 09 07:00:42 when at work I can't do voice calls anyway, and when at home I usually answer on my other nokia :/ Jul 09 07:00:57 * luke-jr notes portrait mode -.- Jul 09 07:01:06 s/notes/hates Jul 09 07:01:16 lol Jul 09 07:01:25 luke-jr: ya I feel that Jul 09 07:01:32 mainly because Maemo is so slow transitioning between modes I guess Jul 09 07:01:41 luke-jr: did you ever find what's his faces problem? Jul 09 07:01:41 I mostly hate that I can't seem to switch it off in gpodder, and it randomly decides to switch Jul 09 07:01:56 asj_: no, I gave up when he said conflicting info Jul 09 07:01:56 luke-jr: ya, the automatic rotate sucks Jul 09 07:01:57 omg Jul 09 07:02:01 seriously Jul 09 07:02:11 luke-jr: yeah :| Jul 09 07:02:24 I even disabled portrait mode for the phone app and it STILL forces it on me randomly Jul 09 07:02:32 if comcast went down AGAIN i am throwing a nutty Jul 09 07:02:42 luke-jr: interesting, I've done the same it's behaving for me so far Jul 09 07:02:57 yigal: I suspect it has some connection to my usage patterns Jul 09 07:03:09 like only for incoming calls maybe Jul 09 07:04:08 luke-jr: there should be a general kill switch for automatic rotate, but where is it Jul 09 07:05:24 luke-jr: still running maemo on your n900? :) Jul 09 07:06:23 ShadowJK: working on my Gentoo install now ;) Jul 09 07:06:34 ShadowJK: left 15 GB unpartitioned for MeeGo even Jul 09 07:07:30 feeling generous I see Jul 09 07:07:46 heh Jul 09 07:08:20 meego seems so ehh http://meego.com/devices/handset/handset-screenshots Jul 09 07:10:40 luke-jr, what WM/DE do you use on your Gentoo installs? (n8x0 and whatever your going to use for the n900) Jul 09 07:11:04 Termana: KDE Jul 09 07:11:32 luke-jr, isn't that quite possibly a chunky monkey for everyday use? :P Jul 09 07:11:43 yigal, you don't like the UI? Jul 09 07:11:58 Termana: indeed, but I haven't found anything comparable Jul 09 07:12:19 and don't have time to write my own DE :P Jul 09 07:14:15 Termana: I'ts too phone centric, I bought this device as a tablet/phone Jul 09 07:16:28 I'll see how it behaves, when it's ready to behave Jul 09 07:16:30 lol Jul 09 07:16:57 yeah yet another comcast business class downage. glad i pay all that extra money Jul 09 07:17:10 this time they said it was scheduled maintenance Jul 09 07:17:41 so i was asking the tech support guy who i call about cancelling my lease and how much it costs Jul 09 07:18:12 and if this is thr type of service i can expect then i will just get verizon fios Jul 09 07:18:50 tomorrow i will call billing and ask them for a refund for this month Jul 09 07:19:10 I have verizon fios I'm happy Jul 09 07:19:26 just phone & internet Jul 09 07:19:30 or just not pay them for the month and say you did not provide the service i was paying for so i cant justify paying you Jul 09 07:19:32 I have a redundant array of shitty internet pipes Jul 09 07:19:51 ShadowJK: I'm envious Jul 09 07:19:51 my sheevaplug switches between them automagically as they go down and up Jul 09 07:19:53 ShadowJK: i wish i did. it might be nice to have 2 Jul 09 07:20:10 ShadowJK: thats awesome Jul 09 07:20:25 getting fibre this summer though, if the coop doesn't run out of money first Jul 09 07:20:35 comcast has gone on 6 hour outages in the past week alone Jul 09 07:20:44 Moo all. Jul 09 07:20:50 hey RST38h Jul 09 07:21:09 they are absolutely horrible as far as a business line goes Jul 09 07:21:33 i can expect that sort of crap from an undervalued res line Jul 09 07:21:43 but not a leased business line Jul 09 07:21:45 My least crappiest connection is wimax. The ISP is only half-aware they actually have wimax :) Jul 09 07:21:54 hahaha Jul 09 07:22:04 thats a good thing Jul 09 07:22:12 then they just leave it alone Jul 09 07:22:35 instead of brainstorming idiot ides on how to make it better by making it worse Jul 09 07:22:41 ideas Jul 09 07:23:04 at least i have my n900 Jul 09 07:23:16 glad i bought it this week Jul 09 07:23:44 Nah, because the backhaul is a series of wireless microwave ethernet links that like to go down, and apparently need some poking from operators to re-establish through some less crashy command channels over their cellular network Jul 09 07:25:25 and for some reason they run pppoe on wimax but not on their adsl Jul 09 07:26:15 the pppoe server has on more than one occasion went missing on friday afternoon, to return on monday at noon :) Jul 09 07:26:33 hahaha Jul 09 07:26:50 but overall it's more reliable than cellular, and latency is awesome compared to hsdpa/hsupa too Jul 09 07:27:01 Can I connect the Internet Key with a cable USB OTG? Jul 09 07:27:02 oh im sure Jul 09 07:27:12 Luisa: no otg Jul 09 07:27:26 S hx Jul 09 07:27:31 come pureownage 27 place in extreme the best server have terato dragon lvl 137 max 5095 new item lvl 137 1 vs 1 map death match all fixde Jul 09 07:27:52 ShadowJK, thx Jul 09 07:28:02 * ShadowJK stares at Drog Jul 09 07:28:20 how I can connect this key internet? Jul 09 07:28:21 Is that some new designer drug you're talking about? Jul 09 07:28:27 http://www.xtremetop100.com/in.php?site=1132300325 vote please Jul 09 07:28:41 uhm Jul 09 07:28:58 If by "key internet" you mean a USB 3g modem, then you can't Jul 09 07:29:11 if it's something else then explain Jul 09 07:29:25 terato dragon? :) Jul 09 07:29:30 II do not want to insert and remove the sim every time I want to surf :( Jul 09 07:30:44 There are routers with wlan and usb ports that can share internet connectivity from usb 3g modems Jul 09 07:31:51 i search on google Jul 09 07:32:17 i hope to find link Jul 09 07:33:08 okay reflashed Jul 09 07:33:20 why does it say 1.7/2 gigs used 170megs left for /home Jul 09 07:33:30 should be 3gigs left...... Jul 09 07:33:38 http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/286332328/3G_Wireless_Router_with_WLAN_and.html Jul 09 07:33:53 is this? Jul 09 07:34:16 http://www.a-link.com/uk/WNAP.html?id=uGndZjQq for example Jul 09 07:34:41 ShadowJK, thx to all Jul 09 07:34:47 it seems like flashing didn't delete my apps, but just links to them? Jul 09 07:34:54 but restoring them re-downloads them for some reason Jul 09 07:35:22 Be sure to check out the specs first, to see if your modem is supported. Jul 09 07:35:56 shorter: sounds like you only flashed rootfs Jul 09 07:36:05 I don't know Jul 09 07:36:11 I used the regular methodology Jul 09 07:36:26 sudo flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin -f -R Jul 09 07:36:49 There are two images. One is the rootfs image, the other is the emmc image. Jul 09 07:36:57 i was told never to do emmc Jul 09 07:37:17 because it erases all your files and settings Jul 09 07:37:57 Also when flashing emmc you need to flash both images, without rebooting phone in between, so no -R option Jul 09 07:38:14 okay, but someone said emmc has a chance to damage my phone Jul 09 07:38:32 and that flashing emmc should be avoided Jul 09 07:38:40 I hvant heard that one myself Jul 09 07:38:51 okay, so there is no danger in doing emmc? Jul 09 07:38:52 s/hvant/haven't/ Jul 09 07:38:52 ShadowJK meant: I haven't heard that one myself Jul 09 07:38:53 stupid question: there isn't a way to input magic sysrq keys on the n900 keyboard is there? Jul 09 07:38:57 I have another question: I have the usb cable N900, when I connect to xp, tells me error that no drives fond, with or without telepone connected Jul 09 07:40:02 i've just managed to get my first total lockup by accidentally clicking a 5000x7000 jpeg in firefox Jul 09 07:40:16 so on first boot of a newly flashed rootfs, stuff gets moved from rootfs to emmc. If you then flash emmc, those files will be erased, and the phone will probably not work correctly if you were to reboot at that point Jul 09 07:41:12 is the cable damaged? Or must I download the drive for cable? Jul 09 07:41:23 ShadowJK: Jul 09 07:41:33 It sounds like the cable is damaged Jul 09 07:41:33 so what are you saying to do? Jul 09 07:41:35 it's amazing that net connections have got fast enough to push a device into swap befor one can react Jul 09 07:41:55 sudo flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin -f ........then flash with emmc image Jul 09 07:42:17 shorter: Don't use the reboot option with flasher-3.5, and flash both images Jul 09 07:42:38 (that's what I'm saying) Jul 09 07:42:51 Got a reference to people saying emmc flash can damage? Jul 09 07:43:28 bcmm: I think I'd try holding powerbutton in.. maybe press it once first.. Jul 09 07:43:43 iirc holding it might be magic, not sure Jul 09 07:45:32 how do you switch between 3g and gsm without that applet Jul 09 07:46:14 BCMM: click poerbutton once - eventually menu will come up, click "stop running task" Jul 09 07:46:34 hm, can somebody tell me how the numbers for the different voltages (to be exact 'dsp') are calculated? wouldn't want to fry my cpu or such... Jul 09 07:46:36 BCMM: or hold power long might shut down device Jul 09 07:46:39 ShadowJK: eventually i found that single pressing power got me to the end current task button - i guess part of the problem was fx doing its own decorations Jul 09 07:47:14 i still wish i could just trigger oom_kill with sysrq magic Jul 09 07:48:23 mikki-kun: if you don't want to dry your CPU, then why on earth would you have to cope with such settings? Jul 09 07:48:38 DocScrutinizer: to save power??? Jul 09 07:49:25 mikki-kun: aaah, you invented a whole new method that none of the many TI and Nokia EE thought about. Did you patent it? Jul 09 07:50:53 you know, if you have a problem with people OCing that's fine, but keep that then to you instead of trying being a smartass -_- Jul 09 07:51:47 ooh noes - now you come with OC... That's unfair Jul 09 07:52:06 shorter: without the applet: settings - phone Jul 09 08:02:22 mikki-kun: check TI website for documents like SPRUF98D/E/F etc. Why ask here in IRC, do you really think the answers here are more accurate than those in the genuine TI docs Jul 09 08:02:53 DocScrutinizer: have you seen the thing? Jul 09 08:03:26 the thing? no, sounds like s shocker video Jul 09 08:03:32 *yawn* Jul 09 08:03:45 DocScrutinizer: code-reset in extras-deve Jul 09 08:03:46 l Jul 09 08:03:53 heh :-D Jul 09 08:04:04 but i know how to attack nolo Jul 09 08:04:06 * DocScrutinizer highfives jacekowski Jul 09 08:04:09 and unlock phone that's locked Jul 09 08:04:14 DocScrutinizer: have you got manufacturer details on the vibra? Jul 09 08:04:20 and switched off and configured for autolock Jul 09 08:05:09 chem|st: alas not, as I don't know the BOM of Nokia, so I have no idea what part/manuf that critter is Jul 09 08:05:37 DocScrutinizer: and code itself can be cracked in less than 30 minutes on my server Jul 09 08:05:51 DocScrutinizer: I was searching through all disected pictures but they removed the branding Jul 09 08:05:53 hehehehe Jul 09 08:06:13 DocScrutinizer: so i have PoC of attack that requires less than hour and nobody would notice that anything have happened Jul 09 08:06:15 jacekowski: nolo? Jul 09 08:06:19 nokia loader Jul 09 08:06:32 chem|st: I didn't remove anything except N900-SER# Jul 09 08:06:37 what are you hacking, out of curiousity? Jul 09 08:06:43 Stskeeps: lock code Jul 09 08:06:51 uhm Jul 09 08:06:52 :P Jul 09 08:06:59 Stskeeps: i can unlock switched off phone Jul 09 08:07:02 DocScrutinizer: I mean in general, not your pictures Jul 09 08:07:14 why bother, libcal is in SDK and you can boot a initrd and a kernel over nfs to unlock.. Jul 09 08:07:17 jacekowski: you mean the software loader or what? Jul 09 08:07:26 chem|st: bootloader Jul 09 08:07:27 jacekowski: now THATs a nice day for hackerism Jul 09 08:07:41 ah from usb-plugged in device Jul 09 08:07:49 unlocking the 'lock code' isn't exactly magic :) Jul 09 08:07:55 Stskeeps: have you tried it? Jul 09 08:08:05 Stskeeps: bah, you partypooper :-P Jul 09 08:08:14 jacekowski: yes, back in the days we used to do it with initfs and qwerty12's tool Jul 09 08:08:15 let me just check Jul 09 08:09:12 Stskeeps: well, i know how it's stored Jul 09 08:09:28 Stskeeps: and how to change it to any value Jul 09 08:09:38 yes, and? :P Jul 09 08:09:54 it's in the CAL area Jul 09 08:09:54 die Jul 09 08:10:09 well, do you know how it's encrypted? Jul 09 08:10:11 Stskeeps: we already had to send askers here to Nokia care center Jul 09 08:10:31 DocScrutinizer: yes, cos in most cases the devices are stolen instead.. :P Jul 09 08:10:39 sure Jul 09 08:11:07 jacekowski: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37808 Jul 09 08:11:18 we were talking about the lack of security of "lock-code" lately Jul 09 08:11:31 ehhhh Jul 09 08:11:54 besides, if device is configured to autolock Jul 09 08:11:55 about to do the follow: sudo flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin -f ...... then ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R - just double checking Jul 09 08:11:58 nolo shouldn't allow flashing Jul 09 08:12:14 or doing anything Jul 09 08:12:21 shorter: ok Jul 09 08:12:33 i'm sure the harmattan device would have a kill switch in that regard :P Jul 09 08:12:47 for which value of “harmattan device” ? :) Jul 09 08:13:00 shorter: go for it Jul 09 08:13:41 Corsac: gruntmaster 3000 obviously Jul 09 08:13:48 de i disconnect between those two? Jul 09 08:13:53 do* Jul 09 08:13:58 shorter: no Jul 09 08:14:10 shorter: no!! Jul 09 08:14:49 shorter: also I'd recommend to first flash VANILLA_EMMC without -R, *then* the COMBINED Jul 09 08:15:02 ? Jul 09 08:15:06 i dont understand Jul 09 08:15:14 as with this sequence the impact of an accidental boot in between is minimized Jul 09 08:15:14 I just started the vanilla flash Jul 09 08:15:15 without r Jul 09 08:15:20 shorter: -R is reboot Jul 09 08:15:46 yeah, it says you don't want R Jul 09 08:15:50 for a simple rule: NEVER use -R Jul 09 08:16:05 even with emmc? Jul 09 08:16:26 doesn't matter, you just need to reboot manually then Jul 09 08:16:44 means unplug, maybe press powerbutton Jul 09 08:17:25 scary time Jul 09 08:17:50 not really Jul 09 08:17:51 abah, nothing bad can happen (if your battery is charged XP) Jul 09 08:18:27 flashing is real fun, you'll love it once you get used to it :-D Jul 09 08:18:27 frals? Jul 09 08:19:05 it said successful Jul 09 08:19:10 so i unplugged Jul 09 08:19:11 mhm Jul 09 08:19:14 and it is stuck on those dots Jul 09 08:19:17 and not starting Jul 09 08:19:17 ohnoes Jul 09 08:19:21 ok Jul 09 08:19:30 shorter: dohnuts is good Jul 09 08:19:33 be patient Jul 09 08:19:41 DocScrutinizer: is there nolo source code available somewhere? Jul 09 08:19:48 nope Jul 09 08:19:53 it is a dim screen with those 5 dots Jul 09 08:19:55 no movement Jul 09 08:19:57 NOLO is BLOB Jul 09 08:20:01 power button isn't working Jul 09 08:20:04 well it's avaiable...just not to the public Jul 09 08:20:15 shorter: you flashed BOTH images? Jul 09 08:20:20 yes Jul 09 08:20:29 so give it time to copy Jul 09 08:20:35 can take some minutes Jul 09 08:20:42 shorter: stop pressing the damn power button and just let it boot Jul 09 08:20:44 thought it copied during the flash Jul 09 08:20:46 k Jul 09 08:21:06 didnt know it copies after disconnecting Jul 09 08:21:11 stuff gets moved during first boot Jul 09 08:21:14 okay Jul 09 08:21:25 DocScrutinizer: and going back to jrbme - what do you need to make it work? Jul 09 08:21:27 that's the reason for the "no -R!" Jul 09 08:21:40 i didn't use -R either time Jul 09 08:21:40 jacekowski: the right mood Jul 09 08:21:47 jacekowski, spare time Jul 09 08:21:50 for vanilla or emmc Jul 09 08:21:50 jacekowski: nothing else Jul 09 08:21:56 make me some time plz :) Jul 09 08:22:32 jacekowski: jrbme all is there, except friggin hal-addon-bme specs Jul 09 08:22:56 well, hald-addon-bme should be easy Jul 09 08:22:57 but jrbme basic version is existing in several different flavours yet Jul 09 08:22:57 hmm ok Jul 09 08:23:13 ShadowJK: probably, but a nuissance Jul 09 08:23:14 DocScrutinizer: what about communication with dsme? Jul 09 08:23:16 how long does this take with no sign of movement? Jul 09 08:23:17 since Mer has/had hald-addon-bme replacement Jul 09 08:23:22 jacekowski: not needed Jul 09 08:23:29 that is true, we do have a replacement Jul 09 08:23:30 ShadowJK: I know Jul 09 08:23:31 sec Jul 09 08:23:34 looked nto it Jul 09 08:23:37 DocScrutinizer: well, dsme is handling thermal shutdowns and that sort of stuff Jul 09 08:24:26 jacekowski: yes, but obviously it doesn't do a good job, as we seen somebody frying his cell on running mencoder on a OC'd device Jul 09 08:24:42 how about asking on mailing list (in 3 weeks time) for exact requirements for charging on N900? Jul 09 08:24:50 like, what would be needed and what would have to be QA'ed Jul 09 08:25:03 so jrbme is just as good as that, it simply doesn't try to do anything - bme maybe tries and fails Jul 09 08:25:08 okay, uh, is it really supposed to take 5 minutes to boot? Jul 09 08:25:13 with no sign of progress? Jul 09 08:25:23 it didn't take that long for me atleast :/ Jul 09 08:25:31 something is wrong Jul 09 08:25:46 hmm Jul 09 08:25:51 right after "Image(s) flashed successfully in 28.026 s (9132 kB/s)! " i disconnected Jul 09 08:25:59 shorter: after flashing have you disconnected it? Jul 09 08:26:01 should i take out the battery? Jul 09 08:26:07 shorter: and that's all? Jul 09 08:26:07 yes Jul 09 08:26:11 yep Jul 09 08:26:15 shorter: or you've pressed some buttons? Jul 09 08:26:18 i tried to push the power button a bunch Jul 09 08:26:25 that would explain it Jul 09 08:26:31 someone told me to Jul 09 08:26:34 it's probably switched off Jul 09 08:26:54 you might have to flash it again Jul 09 08:27:04 take the battery out and put it back in Jul 09 08:27:15 and then try to start it Jul 09 08:27:15 shorter: I repeat my recommendation: *first* flash VANILLA_EMMC without -R, do not unplug, then flash COMBINED (without -R if you want to make sure), then unplug, reboot and wait _without_ pressing any key Jul 09 08:27:18 "(03:18:28 AM) DocScrutinizer: means unplug, maybe press powerbutton" Jul 09 08:27:33 if it doesn't work Jul 09 08:27:38 flash it again Jul 09 08:27:47 what is "combined"? Jul 09 08:27:50 http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/how_not_to_use_your_audi_r8.jpg Jul 09 08:28:01 shorter: I didn't say "press powerbutton when it's already booting" Jul 09 08:28:05 shorter: fiasco image Jul 09 08:28:27 crashanddie: How else would you transport your 60" plasma ;) Jul 09 08:28:31 RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin Jul 09 08:28:52 X-Fade: erhm you wouldn't? Jul 09 08:29:02 DocScrutinizer: dsme watchdog? Jul 09 08:29:10 oh, i flashed COMBINED first Jul 09 08:29:28 jacekowski: I'm not too much concerned about dsme watchdog Jul 09 08:29:54 you're planning to ignore dsme completly? Jul 09 08:30:02 so you're saying to do emmc first even though the guide says not to? Jul 09 08:30:06 shorter: It doesn't matter which sequence you flash, as long as you do not boot in between Jul 09 08:30:27 I think upstart is responible for keeping bme alive Jul 09 08:30:28 shorter: if however you accidentally boot then it's better to first flash EMMC Jul 09 08:30:56 ShadowJK: might be dsmetool Jul 09 08:31:08 okay im doing emmc, not rebooting, then combined Jul 09 08:31:08 but for sure in a upstart script Jul 09 08:31:17 shorter: good Jul 09 08:31:23 emmc = vanilla right? Jul 09 08:31:24 well, bme is registering a watchdog Jul 09 08:31:28 yep Jul 09 08:31:29 with dsme Jul 09 08:31:46 but it's not registered with reboot policy Jul 09 08:31:48 just reset Jul 09 08:31:48 isn't it better to flash rootfs first, since then if he accidentally boots. it'll just overwrite stuff in emmc, whereas if he flasges emmc first, data needed will be missing? Jul 09 08:31:49 jacekowski: that's why you can't SIGSTOP it Jul 09 08:31:52 restart* Jul 09 08:32:11 so if you sigstop it Jul 09 08:32:16 dsme restarts bme Jul 09 08:32:20 which is detected by upstart Jul 09 08:32:27 and upstart tells dsme to reboot Jul 09 08:32:38 hm, why does "stop bme" work? bme unregisters watch with dsme? Jul 09 08:32:45 no Jul 09 08:32:50 take a look at the script Jul 09 08:32:50 ShadowJK: first-boot of last flashed rootfs will 'cure' things Jul 09 08:33:21 DocScrutinizer, but data needed is no longer on rootfs, and flash just wiped emmc? Jul 09 08:33:21 just did emmc Jul 09 08:33:23 flashing emmc over a system with /opt copied will destroy /opt Jul 09 08:33:30 ShadowJK: and it's all there Jul 09 08:33:33 now when i do sudo flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin -f Jul 09 08:33:34 - it ends right away Jul 09 08:33:52 ShadowJK: all dsme would do to bme is kill it and restart Jul 09 08:34:01 Using flashing protocol Mk II. is the last thing it says DocScrutinizer Jul 09 08:34:19 you need -R too Jul 09 08:34:20 i see those faint dots again Jul 09 08:34:33 Stskeeps: duh - why? Jul 09 08:34:37 ShadowJK: so you don't have to worry about dsme watchdog Jul 09 08:34:37 lol Jul 09 08:34:46 DocScrutinizer: that, or -b Jul 09 08:34:54 ShadowJK: it's upstart script that has onstop trigger Jul 09 08:35:14 * ShadowJK stopped bme 5 hour ago and is charging without it :) Jul 09 08:35:54 shnaps, i just did it with R... seems to be booting or something Jul 09 08:36:15 shorter: so let it boot Jul 09 08:36:24 don't shock it XP Jul 09 08:36:26 k, well now it obviously is Jul 09 08:36:34 never seem them dots move that fast Jul 09 08:36:35 lol Jul 09 08:36:59 booted fantastic Jul 09 08:37:39 and free space? Jul 09 08:37:42 checking Jul 09 08:38:43 yeah! Jul 09 08:38:52 1.8g available on /home/opt Jul 09 08:39:07 now that's not spectacular Jul 09 08:39:19 df -h / is the one Jul 09 08:41:21 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# df -h / Jul 09 08:41:22 Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on Jul 09 08:41:24 rootfs 227.9M 133.7M 90.0M 60% / Jul 09 08:41:37 55% Jul 09 08:41:44 is that how it should be? Jul 09 08:41:48 yes Jul 09 08:41:48 122M Jul 09 08:42:05 okay, and MyDocs at 26G Jul 09 08:42:22 I installed quite some apps on that device, so root filled up a little Jul 09 08:42:46 now I'm thinking twice about restoring all of my apps from backup Jul 09 08:42:52 because there were like 100 Jul 09 08:42:57 and the phone seems a lot faster now Jul 09 08:43:07 but I'd like them all Jul 09 08:43:08 shouldn't cause any problems now on PR1.2 Jul 09 08:43:32 if all those apps are correctly optified Jul 09 08:43:32 okay, I'm guessing it caused probably last time i restored because I didnt know to do the emmc after doing the combined Jul 09 08:43:48 okay, will restore Jul 09 08:43:59 yeah, what happened last time is /home filled up Jul 09 08:44:09 and i couldnt write anything no matter how much i deleted Jul 09 08:44:18 /home filled up?? o.O Jul 09 08:44:29 now that's odd Jul 09 08:45:19 sufficient amount of unclean reboots can do it Jul 09 08:45:21 maybe fs got corrupted Jul 09 08:45:25 yep Jul 09 08:45:56 okay, so you dont think restoring a backup would cause it again Jul 09 08:46:00 well, it's ext3 afaik, so a fsck-ext3 should do Jul 09 08:46:18 lol maybe i shouldve learned that a few hours ago Jul 09 08:46:23 or weeks even Jul 09 08:46:25 shorter: no, quite certainly won't cause any problems Jul 09 08:46:31 It's pretty hard to unmount /home Jul 09 08:46:33 awesome Jul 09 08:46:41 ShadowJK: true :-S Jul 09 08:46:51 well, I don't need 2 partitions to install to the internal flash memory card (SD), but it won't let me use any virtual memory....I suspect I need to make another partition for that, or do it from the command line. Jul 09 08:47:23 I ran fsck.ext3 once before /home was mounted. It royally fucked up the entire partition. Jul 09 08:47:31 LOL Jul 09 08:47:37 how that, ShadowJK ? Jul 09 08:47:41 hmm, are the conversations account plugin passwords saved in plain text somewhere? Jul 09 08:47:41 ShadowJK, I find that unlikely Jul 09 08:48:08 frals: evil hax0r! Jul 09 08:48:10 most likely, the partition was fucked before Jul 09 08:48:56 frals: gconffool, err..tool? Jul 09 08:49:21 DocScrutinizer, well consider that journaled fs, and filesystems in general, are designed with the assumption that data is written to disk in the order it is submitted, more or less, and if shit happens, you lose some unknown amount of 512-byte sectors out of the last few you submitted Jul 09 08:49:39 WormFood, oh yes it was, but fsck made it even more fucked Jul 09 08:49:40 yep, Jul 09 08:49:54 does anybody know at what address is nolo loaded? Jul 09 08:49:59 during boot Jul 09 08:50:04 hehe Jul 09 08:50:19 Stskeeps ^^^ ?? Jul 09 08:50:27 So when with flash you lose random 256k chunks and data gets written back in unpredictable order... Jul 09 08:50:39 jacekowski: Do you own a flashing jig? :) Jul 09 08:50:51 DocScrutinizer: ive forgot my skype password and cba to restore it :< Jul 09 08:50:53 X-Fade: i own a hot air rework station Jul 09 08:51:04 X-Fade: but i just need to know offset at which is it loaded Jul 09 08:51:08 jacekowski: Then don't even think about it ;) Jul 09 08:51:23 frals: ouch, skype Jul 09 08:51:34 frals: you're doomed Jul 09 08:51:41 i mean address at which x-loader loads it Jul 09 08:51:44 jacekowski: you're going to make kernel copy nolo to a safe place on boot? Jul 09 08:52:22 DocScrutinizer: not found anything better for videocalling with my gf yet which works effortless on win/nix/maemo5 :) Jul 09 08:52:37 ShadowJK: nah, it's just that my offsets are messed up Jul 09 08:53:04 frals, I know something that works with less effort.....don't have a girlfriend, so you don't need to use anything Jul 09 08:53:09 frals: granted. But skype is *crypted* proprietary crap. Nobody probably can tell you how it works and where it stores passwords Jul 09 08:53:28 DocScrutinizer: good point that Jul 09 08:53:39 not even jacekowski with his amazing RE skills XP Jul 09 08:53:41 in China, skype reports you to the government (no joke, just google it) Jul 09 08:53:59 on the topic of skype i recall reading someone made progress on cracking the encryption Jul 09 08:54:05 DocScrutinizer: everything can be reversed Jul 09 08:54:15 DocScrutinizer: if it runs - it can be unpacked Jul 09 08:54:17 frals: not cracking, so much as understanding it Jul 09 08:54:25 jacekowski: you know the blackhat papers on skype? Jul 09 08:54:31 ah, yes, that be it Jul 09 08:54:42 s/,// Jul 09 08:54:43 timeless_mbp meant: frals: not cracking so much as understanding it Jul 09 08:54:47 hmpf, cant access slashdot from work net Jul 09 08:54:49 besides, people reversed skype Jul 09 08:54:52 what is the difference between a light bulb and a pregnant woman? You can unscrew a light bulb. Jul 09 08:55:17 and i'm not interested in skype Jul 09 08:55:42 i don't use it i don't care Jul 09 08:55:57 http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-europe-06/bh-eu-06-biondi/bh-eu-06-biondi-up.pdf Jul 09 08:56:03 rotfl Jul 09 08:56:05 jacekowski: ^^^ Jul 09 08:56:10 Waiting for the kernel to magically appear Jul 09 08:56:17 Press any key to cancel Jul 09 08:56:24 Yup, there it is. Stand by for some Linux pleasure. Jul 09 08:58:36 jacekowski: that was around the time when skype managed to totally screw ALSA integration, and I decided I cease to do beta tester tasks for them as they're not worth it Jul 09 09:00:58 DocScrutinizer: same team gave http://sid.rstack.org/pres/0606_Recon_Skype_Botnet.pdf the same year Jul 09 09:01:00 DocScrutinizer: we have full working unpacked decrypted dump of skype Jul 09 09:01:31 DocScrutinizer: thing is that it's huge and nobody cares Jul 09 09:01:52 jacekowski: me the least Jul 09 09:01:57 XP Jul 09 09:02:53 no skype been started on any of my devices since ~4 years now Jul 09 09:03:05 that won't change any time soon I guess Jul 09 09:07:11 DocScrutinizer: why? Jul 09 09:07:32 skype? pffffffrrrrrt Jul 09 09:08:12 bad concept, and then hijacked by even worse big business Jul 09 09:09:05 incredibly poor organization, poor coders, and generally overrated hyped crap Jul 09 09:09:27 I wish I could use VOIP, but my BF can't get the video calling work on his clients Jul 09 09:09:42 I hate Skype, it uses too much CPU Jul 09 09:09:55 but alas, I have to use it to keep my sanity :-( Jul 09 09:10:06 Myrtti, uses too much cpu on Linux, or winblows? Jul 09 09:10:21 WormFood: linux, I've not run windows since 2004 Jul 09 09:10:40 I find skype is a cpu hog on winblows....always ran fine for me on Linux Jul 09 09:10:44 Myrtti, cpu likes to compute Jul 09 09:11:41 what really, really pissed me off with skype, is when they determine the system is running slow, they suggest you upgrade to a new *Intel* cpu.....oh yeah.....I wonder how they made that suggestion....perhaps because _Intel_ was paying them? Jul 09 09:12:00 fpt Jul 09 09:12:03 COMPUTE SKYPE = CRAP ** 2 Jul 09 09:12:45 ietf voip doesn't offer me anything skype wouldn't :) Jul 09 09:12:55 pretty same for me which I use Jul 09 09:12:59 skype IS voip Jul 09 09:13:07 aka MOVE CRAP * CRAP TO SKYPE Jul 09 09:13:08 WormFood, ietf voip Jul 09 09:13:10 its probably more likely theyre lazy and just give the notice to joe clueless user, who vaguely understands that "intel" = "main bit in the box" and to whom "amd" and "cpu" means nothing. Jul 09 09:13:17 WormFood, not just voip Jul 09 09:13:29 ok Jul 09 09:13:49 or MULTIPLY CRAP BY CRAP GIVING SKYPE Jul 09 09:15:17 if you go to skype.com in China, you get redirected to another site....and the version of skype from them spies on you....I really hate skype, but I have some friends that use it Jul 09 09:15:50 They should fix the protocol at least. Jul 09 09:15:58 It's not very suitable for mobile devices Jul 09 09:16:08 Too many wakeups Jul 09 09:16:11 XMPP Jingle über alles! Jul 09 09:16:17 skype isn't suitable for anything Jul 09 09:16:59 WormFood: wrong! skype is very suitable for driving sysops nuts Jul 09 09:17:54 a pirate walks into a bar....and the bartender says "there is a ships wheel in your pants", and the pirate says "arrrrr, its driving me nuts" Jul 09 09:18:01 skype as well transfers my speech to other end, suitable for talking to me Jul 09 09:18:07 WormFood: and some insane dudes claim that's an advantage of skype Jul 09 09:18:26 WHAT? There is an advantage to skype? Jul 09 09:18:36 of skype Jul 09 09:18:42 I'd like to hear the logic in that one? what is the advantage? They own stock in skype? Jul 09 09:18:53 DocScrutinizer, depends on the view, if you "just want to use it", it might be Jul 09 09:19:57 WormFood: they can fight their companies' sysops' policies Jul 09 09:20:22 as skype is hard to administrate on any corporate firewall Jul 09 09:21:14 I found firewall rules to stop skype Jul 09 09:21:28 I forget where i found them, but I remember reading about it Jul 09 09:21:30 so they claim "duh, what 'no VoIP!' - but that's _skype_ not VoIP" and think they get away with it Jul 09 09:25:03 MiXu-: they simply CAN NOT fix the protocol, as it's a peer2peer protocol and implemented in every skype client same way Jul 09 09:25:35 DocScrutinizer: Then all the client need to change and drop backwards compatibility Jul 09 09:25:42 *clients Jul 09 09:25:44 MiXu-: they had to spawn a completely separate subbranch of skype service, that only talks to dedicated servers Jul 09 09:26:11 and call that skype-mobile Jul 09 09:26:34 and that's basically what you got with every simple SIP server then Jul 09 09:27:03 I have yet not seen a simple enough SIP solution. Jul 09 09:27:06 At least on a mobile. Jul 09 09:27:24 I thought sip on my n800 was pretty damn easy Jul 09 09:27:24 hmm Jul 09 09:27:31 yep Jul 09 09:27:47 on my N810 and N900 just the same Jul 09 09:27:56 almost TOO easy Jul 09 09:28:06 missing a few advanced settings Jul 09 09:28:08 The problem is that people don't understand the concept. You'd need a productized service for it. Jul 09 09:28:20 On symbian phones too.. My operator just sent SIP settings as sms, and phone automatically took settings from tha... Jul 09 09:28:30 MiXu-: there are zillion Jul 09 09:28:30 Skype is successful because it's easy to understand. Jul 09 09:28:33 that* Jul 09 09:28:34 the 'new updates available' should show the application available without starting app manager Jul 09 09:28:46 skype is a pain in the ass to get configured sometimes Jul 09 09:28:51 MiXu-: that's nonsense Jul 09 09:28:52 DocScrutinizer: Yes. And if I use one service and my friend uses another one, we may or may not be able to call each other. Jul 09 09:29:28 DocScrutinizer: Then tell me, what's the reason for skype's success? :) Jul 09 09:29:32 MiXu-: that's also nonsense Jul 09 09:30:33 MiXu-: it's been free as in beer from the the beginning, while SIP services always were a replacement for landline, and had similar tariff models Jul 09 09:31:05 I'm sure there are free sip services as well Jul 09 09:31:11 ekiga Jul 09 09:31:17 sipgate Jul 09 09:31:29 MiXu-: here in Germany I guess more people are using SIP than POTS right now, just they don't even realize Jul 09 09:31:47 People don't care about the protocol. Jul 09 09:32:05 They just want something that works. And the "network effect" has to be there as well. Jul 09 09:32:22 there is only one thing wrong with engineers. they think that people care about technology Jul 09 09:32:30 Surfa: Exactly Jul 09 09:32:34 +++++ Jul 09 09:32:51 People could not care less about what's behind the UI as long as it's not killing kittens or something. Jul 09 09:32:56 err, that's addressed to whom exactly now? Jul 09 09:33:01 no one really cares if it skype or sip or rtp or tcp or sctp or whatever as long as speech works Jul 09 09:33:25 Surfa: Yes, and that applies to most "tech stuff" Jul 09 09:33:42 gizmo5 was free of charge ietf voip service, it was acquired by google "lately" Jul 09 09:33:58 Surfa: nah, they just start whining when "oooohnoes my battery only lasts 3h" Jul 09 09:34:10 i think it still is.. but can't be sure, I have very old account Jul 09 09:34:24 DocScrutinizer: Yes. So it's the engineer's job to make the battery last. Jul 09 09:34:38 by selecting proper technologies :) Jul 09 09:34:39 MiXu-: fsckit Jul 09 09:34:43 no one cares how, as long as it doesn't ruin their day. Jul 09 09:35:07 DocScrutinizer: You're obviously too deep in the engineer-mindset :) Jul 09 09:35:14 MiXu-: don't tell ME I should make skype a sane technology!! Jul 09 09:35:28 DocScrutinizer: I'm not telling you should do anything. :) Jul 09 09:35:34 Just having a conversation Jul 09 09:35:56 MiXu-: you're not reational Jul 09 09:36:13 DocScrutinizer: About the protocol change? Jul 09 09:36:47 MiXu-: either insist in using Skype and live with the consequences, or admit engineers have a reason to favour some technical detail over another Jul 09 09:37:02 either or? Jul 09 09:37:08 how about both Jul 09 09:37:13 but do not argue with me abot why skype is such a bright thing Jul 09 09:37:33 He's not using or not using skype or sip Jul 09 09:37:42 DocScrutinizer: I'm not trying to say skype is great. From tech point of view it's not. They just got the product right. Jul 09 09:37:48 Like Apple in many cases. Jul 09 09:37:57 * DocScrutinizer away to have another coffee and a more relaxed morning that exactly talking about skype bullshit Jul 09 09:38:59 apple? skype? oh my Jul 09 09:39:00 DocScrutinizer: have you seen that /sbin/bootsomething script Jul 09 09:39:08 DocScrutinizer: and references to booting from usb Jul 09 09:39:54 Appiah: What's wrong with that? Jul 09 09:40:53 wrong? na nothing is wrong with that Jul 09 09:41:15 I was just wondering what that "oh my" meant :) Jul 09 09:41:20 it's just that everytime I see people talking about these things I suspect one or two trolls to show up Jul 09 09:41:29 hehe Jul 09 09:41:32 DocScrutinizer: /sbin/preinit Jul 09 09:41:51 jacekowski: nice file, looked at it several times Jul 09 09:41:52 especially that n900lover/n900blahblah or whatever he switches his nick to Jul 09 09:42:00 ohmy == OT Jul 09 09:42:15 OT as in off topic? Jul 09 09:42:19 yep Jul 09 09:42:31 am I being off topic for saying oh my? Jul 09 09:42:38 and also ack for the trolls :-D Jul 09 09:42:43 :) Jul 09 09:42:46 Appiah: nah Jul 09 09:42:57 this is weird...after installing my system to CF, it would reboot after a few minutes....now it has been running for 30 minutes with no problems. Jul 09 09:43:05 CF? Jul 09 09:43:13 compact flash Jul 09 09:44:29 * timeless_mbp hasn't see a CF slot on n900s Jul 09 09:45:04 * nidO hasnt seen a CF slot on anything for years Jul 09 09:45:24 my audrey has one Jul 09 09:45:25 you think everyone here has an n900? Jul 09 09:45:26 haven't seend high end cameras then? Jul 09 09:45:43 I own an N800 Jul 09 09:45:44 WormFood: i'd hope most people here would... Jul 09 09:45:58 nokia will NEVER get another penny out of me Jul 09 09:46:00 * timeless_mbp doesn't remember seeing a CF slot on the n800s either Jul 09 09:46:05 WormFood why? Jul 09 09:46:13 not CF, I mean SD Jul 09 09:46:28 oh… then why didn't you say so? :) Jul 09 09:46:57 Appiah, because I bought a Nokia N85, and it broke in less than a year (under warranty), and they refused to fix it (and it did not break because of anything I did) Jul 09 09:46:57 i'm well aware of what CF is… my Audrey which is sitting on the table next to me has one :) Jul 09 09:46:57 Someone rated my app 5 stars and said: "Excellent ! Plus besoin de PC portable !" Jul 09 09:47:07 yeehaaa, /me noticed it's Friday. So everything starts making sense now XP Jul 09 09:47:08 I'm glad it was my app that did that. pahahaha Jul 09 09:48:03 what was wrong and why'd they refuse the repair? Jul 09 09:48:23 Still no donations thoug :D Jul 09 09:48:37 which app? Jul 09 09:48:44 WormFood: could you prove it? Jul 09 09:48:51 soooo Jul 09 09:49:06 who else things it gay the police set up speed traps right before the 80 sign Jul 09 09:49:09 prove what? Jul 09 09:49:10 and get you doing 70 Jul 09 09:49:18 WormFood: that it's not your fault Jul 09 09:49:26 it is my word against theirs Jul 09 09:49:38 they can claim whatever they want Jul 09 09:49:38 Well what was the problem then? Jul 09 09:49:40 i believe theirx Jul 09 09:49:44 what was wrong with it, and why'd they refuse the repair? Jul 09 09:49:45 I mean how was it broken Jul 09 09:49:50 nidO: cellent ! Plus besoin de PC portable ! Jul 09 09:49:56 screen goes all white, or funky colors (and gets hot) Jul 09 09:49:59 Oh, wait. Jul 09 09:50:17 nidO: I meant http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/media-im-status-updater/ Jul 09 09:50:21 ah Jul 09 09:50:21 Izzeh: drive carefully Jul 09 09:50:23 NOW, every nokia piece of equipment I own has problems. (even my N800) Jul 09 09:50:34 WormFood: What was their rationale for not fixing it then? Jul 09 09:50:43 n800 had some screen problems Jul 09 09:50:46 but I can't blame my N800 problems on Nokia tho...the backup battery died Jul 09 09:51:14 fwiw, i've been using nokia phones for over 10 years and the only one i've ever had a problem with was my e90, which was a design flaw with the keyboard+screen and the repair centre sorted me in like an hour Jul 09 09:51:19 I have a 6210 from year2000 which still works like a charm, with very first LiIon battery!! Jul 09 09:51:23 MiXu-, they claimed I got it wet/damp.....but it has never gotten wet while I've had it, outside of normal humidity wetness Jul 09 09:51:57 I had an issue with the 8210 screen, design issue, fixed at a care centre in a day. Jul 09 09:52:00 I absolutely refuse to fix this....this is their problem, they need to pay to fix it, not me Jul 09 09:52:03 WormFood: There's a moisture indicator inside the phone. If it goes red it's a pretty good sign that it has gotten wet at some point. Jul 09 09:52:13 they have lost me as a customer because of this shit....FUCK NOKIA! Jul 09 09:52:15 And it was two years out of warranty Jul 09 09:52:20 "normal humidity" as in "what you consider normal but is outside the operating humidity of the device"? Jul 09 09:52:52 depending on where you are, its also worth noting that there's no benefit for the repair people to lie about it being out of warranty Jul 09 09:52:55 If you run a marathon with a phone in your pocket, there's a change it'll be damaged from sweat. Jul 09 09:53:02 see, now there was no need to get upset. you broke your device Jul 09 09:53:03 MiXu-, they didn't show me any moisture indicator...they just showed me a tiny bit of green "corrosion" (not sure if that is really what it is), around the camera (and there was no problem with the camera) Jul 09 09:53:12 certainly in most places the companies that carry out the warranty repairs dont get paid for not fixing devices Jul 09 09:53:15 Hm Jul 09 09:53:41 it was in warranty. They could check the serial number and see it was in warranty Jul 09 09:53:57 Try another service point :) Jul 09 09:54:15 Maybe someone was just having a bad day :) Jul 09 09:54:35 yep Jul 09 09:54:55 Hahah Jul 09 09:55:10 Go back on Monday, I hear Steve isn't working ... :D Jul 09 09:55:14 :D Jul 09 09:56:05 makes me wonder if it's about time today to give Nokia a chance to fix the power button they ruined Jul 09 09:57:33 I did try 2 service points Jul 09 09:57:47 how did they ruin it? Jul 09 09:58:05 first step of operation: swap expired and active SIM of the two devices, and redo the GPS compare test Jul 09 09:58:36 WormFood: device was sent in to Nokia for repair. Returned with power button borked Jul 09 09:59:31 WormFood: obviously they have catchers or similar hulks on their repair line XP Jul 09 10:04:12 ehh, that's just wrong Jul 09 10:04:25 it looks like nolo is encrypted/compressed or something Jul 09 10:05:02 eeew Jul 09 10:05:13 Signed? Jul 09 10:05:42 signed allegedly Jul 09 10:05:50 WormFood: take it easy mate Jul 09 10:06:13 but signing doesn't crypt Jul 09 10:06:19 well, maybe compressed Jul 09 10:06:29 * alterego starts to feel depressed. Jul 09 10:06:34 or i've got my offsets wrong Jul 09 10:06:39 but it doesnt't look like Jul 09 10:06:55 I need a job :( But I really want to carry on developing for Maemo/MeeGo :( Jul 09 10:07:11 i have a job Jul 09 10:07:25 Show off. Jul 09 10:07:49 ping lcuk Jul 09 10:07:50 im at my job right now :( Jul 09 10:08:04 I want to make money, developing this software. But I'm not sure how likely it'll work out in the end. Jul 09 10:08:37 jacekowski: there's only 4 offsets to get a reasonable code with one of them? Jul 09 10:09:35 Mainly because I want to release my sw as FOSS, but the donation model will never work. Jul 09 10:10:17 I like the FOSS model because it allows you to have a higher amount of user input and a more frequent release cycle. If I go the Ovi route I miss all of that :/ Jul 09 10:10:23 _o/ Jul 09 10:11:28 That and I see my software as art and I never feel it's worth money :/ Jul 09 10:12:36 does 0x4078 mean anything to anybody? Jul 09 10:12:40 in terms of size Jul 09 10:12:59 size of what Jul 09 10:13:38 that's what i'm asking Jul 09 10:13:48 wait, hex? Jul 09 10:13:50 jacekowski: 16504 Jul 09 10:14:01 So within a 16 bit int Jul 09 10:14:31 jacekowski: do you have a context? Jul 09 10:14:42 no Jul 09 10:14:50 hmmm Jul 09 10:14:54 Hah, where did you pull it from then? Jul 09 10:14:57 nolo Jul 09 10:15:00 size of a page? Jul 09 10:15:05 RAM:8000001C LDR R5, =0x8041AB48 Jul 09 10:15:05 RAM:80000020 LDR R6, =0x8041EBC0 Jul 09 10:15:10 Yeah, 16k chunks Jul 09 10:15:36 Erm, the boot loader code pads 16k chunks for first and second stage I think. Jul 09 10:18:38 X-Fade, ping? Jul 09 10:19:24 Wazzzaaap Jul 09 10:19:59 /query :) Jul 09 10:20:04 Heh, just realized flies sound like a mini vuvuzela .. Jul 09 10:20:59 anybody with custom kernel Jul 09 10:21:14 it would be very nice if i could get memory dump just after boot Jul 09 10:21:28 0x8040023D - that address Jul 09 10:22:02 alterego: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqpuEqjmGE Jul 09 10:22:49 Oh, that is sweet :D Jul 09 10:23:03 X-Fade: wazzap? The 90s called, they want their slogan back. Jul 09 10:23:15 Hahah Jul 09 10:23:49 crashanddie: Yeah, am listening to some old music, so it fits nicely :) Jul 09 10:24:26 lost my headphone's bud yesterday grr Jul 09 10:25:12 MohammadAG51: hate that :( Jul 09 10:25:51 MohammadAG51: place transducer into ear, then fill up with silicon Jul 09 10:25:54 alterego, even worse is when you're in a f'd up place and can't get a replacement unless you buy an N900 Jul 09 10:26:07 :/ Jul 09 10:26:16 MohammadAG51: Others fit too. Jul 09 10:26:27 X-Fade, well you can't find others :P Jul 09 10:26:31 Try some cheap chinese ones from ebay? Jul 09 10:26:33 MohammadAG51: I just bought a cheap pear of "like" headphones and useed the spare rubber bits that came with it :) Jul 09 10:26:37 MohammadAG51: yeah. Why not just buy a 2$ headphone Jul 09 10:27:10 i asked for a 505, apparently nokia in jordan don't sell it, cause... (ironically), you can get a chinese headset Jul 09 10:27:16 wtf is with them Jul 09 10:27:21 alterego: or just use the complete headphone instead of the rather crappy original one Jul 09 10:28:05 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that too. I had a sweet pair of Sony headphones I was using for two years, kept losing the rubber in-ear bits and kept buy cheap crap ones to replace them, finally the headphones broke and I cried :( Jul 09 10:28:12 Can't get those any more :( Jul 09 10:28:20 lol Jul 09 10:28:28 hey all :) Jul 09 10:29:01 Thats pretty sad Jul 09 10:29:13 Not that you can't replace them and they broke Jul 09 10:29:17 The fact you cried over it Jul 09 10:29:18 :P Jul 09 10:29:22 Mupen64 + accelerometer = AWESOME :D Jul 09 10:29:26 alterego: same here, though these were foldable headphones with a support over head (duh, my English sucks) Jul 09 10:29:31 alterego, get an HD800 (see amazon.com) Jul 09 10:29:34 If only the touchscreen was used for some buttons, it would be perfect Jul 09 10:30:49 hmm Jul 09 10:30:59 how much did the N900 sell for in the EU Jul 09 10:31:01 at launch Jul 09 10:31:20 600e Jul 09 10:31:24 598EUR @ Nokia webshop iirc Jul 09 10:31:29 meh Jul 09 10:31:40 plus shipping Jul 09 10:31:41 launched @ 450 in jordan... Jul 09 10:32:02 hmm, maybe they don't have to pay 20% VAT Jul 09 10:32:37 not sure, but i'm kinda pissed that i bought it for $750 (shipping, customs, US device) Jul 09 10:33:20 MohammadAG51: you should have gotten used to that, during 30 years of IT. Err you're not that old, anyway Jul 09 10:33:34 lmfao Jul 09 10:34:10 MohammadAG51: smoke another cigarette before entering the shop - it might get cheaper Jul 09 10:34:32 DocScrutinizer, I don't smoke, never will Jul 09 10:34:33 :) Jul 09 10:34:46 so eat an icecream :-P Jul 09 10:34:57 LOL Jul 09 10:35:16 the price of a N900 probably will drop more than the icecream costs :-P Jul 09 10:36:14 it's always just the question if you're willing to wait, or prefer to hold the device in your hands and don't think about how much the TCO Jul 09 10:37:38 drop ? where's the drop ? I'm waiting for the price to drop to be able to use it some automation/robo stuff and yet, it's still 400-500 eur new, the only way to get it cheap is second-hand from the US Jul 09 10:38:10 achipa: yep Jul 09 10:38:53 and honestly I'd be surprised to see it drop even further. I mean it was at 600EUR on rollout Jul 09 10:39:10 100-200e is still a drop! :p Jul 09 10:40:29 achipa: and for automation/robotics maybe a Freerunner would serve your needs. Quite a bit less on pricetag, and even comes with USB hostmode ootb :-P Jul 09 10:41:40 achipa: also you get really decent schematics for OM Freerunner, plus it's been *designed* for such purposes Jul 09 10:41:58 DocScrutinizer: I'm using it as an autoguider for the telescope - needs a good cam for that :) It's funny to see people bash the N900's cam whereas it can be used to guide telescopes across the night sky Jul 09 10:42:04 it's always just the question if you're willing to wait, or prefer to hold the device in your hands and don't think about how much the TCO Jul 09 10:42:23 but yes, it you don't need a cam or cortex level horsepower, a freerunner is a good choice, too Jul 09 10:42:24 achipa, did you blog about this? Jul 09 10:42:31 frals: skype-video works effortless on win/nix/maemo for you? I have a video button when calling linux but no video shown at the other end and no video button for calling win Jul 09 10:42:32 it was released one week after i got mine, first week of january, i got mine on the 28th of december Jul 09 10:42:39 lcuk: I don't think so, had a few posts on talk and that's it Jul 09 10:43:06 get some photos together, sounds like a decent project - are you talking to the motion hardware Jul 09 10:43:12 or just using it as guide Jul 09 10:43:15 chem|st: linux desktop client seems borked now when i was about to use it, but it works fine on device and my windows machine at least ;( Jul 09 10:43:41 \o frals Jul 09 10:43:45 whats the win-version? Jul 09 10:43:50 o/ lcuk Jul 09 10:43:56 7 Jul 09 10:44:09 achipa: you should talk to SpeedEvil - seems he's interested in quite similar topics Jul 09 10:44:11 lcuk: using BT2serial to talk to the mount Jul 09 10:44:13 \æ/ Jul 09 10:44:36 DocScrutinizer: thx for the pointer Jul 09 10:44:42 https://twitter.com/jonoberheide/status/18009527979 Jul 09 10:44:44 ~windows Jul 09 10:44:45 somebody said windows was either a 64bit hack on the 32 bit hack or just a 32 bit hack on a 16 bit operating system, originally designed for an 8 bit CPU, with a 4 bit system bus, made by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition... or the World of Warcraft bootloader, or the most important collection of bugs, or bloatware, or an operating system Jul 09 10:44:55 achipa, nifty - you should bug DocScrutinizer and the guys about host mode to simplify that Jul 09 10:45:16 LOL Jul 09 10:45:23 lcuk: and then just cancelling out motion by detecting image motion through timed shots via gstreamer... Jul 09 10:45:41 achipa, nice Jul 09 10:45:48 please though Jul 09 10:45:55 do not connect this to a mount with legs Jul 09 10:46:05 we have too many robot killing machines rampaging the world Jul 09 10:46:09 lcuk: no benefit in bugging me. I'm just in a stall state atm, as there's no helping hand on kernel development Jul 09 10:46:27 lcuk: yeah, host usb would make things a lot simpler - the biggest issue is lag... until I get through BT/serial I accumulate a lot of lag so it's easy to create a constant sinusoidal movement error Jul 09 10:47:16 DocScrutinizer, then ask some kernel hackers to help Jul 09 10:47:25 "battlefield weapons test #46: lag still causing turret to roll 4 degrees right, adjusting" Jul 09 10:47:44 lcuk: don't worry, it's a 30 pound steel tripod... :) but it if it COULD move, it would have major kicking power :) Jul 09 10:47:50 MohammadAG51: I constantly do. And the result is somewhat .... :-S Jul 09 10:48:14 DocScrutinizer, ask the nitdroid guys, they have about 3 hackers Jul 09 10:48:28 MohammadAG51: USB kernel drivers are the badlands of kernel. Nobody but the most brave dare to go there Jul 09 10:48:53 * MohammadAG51 renames musb_core.c to wlandriverforn00bs.c Jul 09 10:49:17 DocScrutinizer, how about now ^ Jul 09 10:49:27 wlan is just about as bad Jul 09 10:49:38 ask werner aka wpwrak Jul 09 10:49:49 (werner almesberger) Jul 09 10:49:58 or paulfertser Jul 09 10:50:07 DocScrutinizer: I'd help but my kernel skills end at packaging random modules for people :( Jul 09 10:51:18 achipa: yes, we'd need somebody who feels competent to write a USB driver from scratch Jul 09 10:52:16 DocScrutinizer: no, you need someone who is competent enough to write a USB driver from scratch Jul 09 10:52:25 someone who feels competent enough to say so is dangerous. Jul 09 10:52:27 achipa: that person had the right background to fix the musb_core.c mess Jul 09 10:53:14 crashanddie: exactly :-D Jul 09 10:53:46 DocScrutinizer: that being said, I'm awesome enough to re-write the whole Linux kernel in C++ in about 2 weekend Jul 09 10:53:49 +s Jul 09 10:54:02 and maybe even some python modules just for the w00t Jul 09 10:54:08 crashanddie: fine. You're hied Jul 09 10:54:11 hired Jul 09 10:54:26 s/h/f/g Jul 09 10:54:27 MohammadAG51 meant: DocScrutinizer, fow about now ^ Jul 09 10:54:28 * DocScrutinizer sighs Jul 09 10:54:33 oops Jul 09 10:54:56 and obviously, because my people love me so much, I'll even add a small perl interpreter, in the Newux core. Jul 09 10:55:26 man, I could really use a job Jul 09 10:55:48 eeek, sounds like.... dunno xdroid? Jul 09 10:56:07 crashanddie: me too Jul 09 10:56:40 or just somebody to throw bundles of money at me Jul 09 10:56:42 heh, just checked on the N900 price on computeruniverse and it has a 'HOT' moniker. Go figure. Jul 09 10:57:05 DocScrutinizer: I can do that. But I will collect them afterwards, with interest :) Jul 09 10:58:03 crashanddie, remind me when defcon and BH are? Jul 09 10:58:11 MohammadAG51: this month Jul 09 10:58:34 July 28th Jul 09 10:58:42 bah Jul 09 11:05:59 where did that bootscreen app go? Jul 09 11:13:15 crashanddie: ? Jul 09 11:15:29 I've been asking him for the past month to use a pronouncable nickname, something that doesn't look like a spambot or a troll trying to disrupt the channel, but for some reason he always changes it back. I warned him last time (earlier this week) that I would ban the nickname as a whole if he didn't use something not necessarily shorter Jul 09 11:16:25 crashanddie, he might be from iceland Jul 09 11:16:37 err, "not necessarily shorter but at least something that doesn't remind everyone of a volcano" Jul 09 11:17:23 lcuk: though, it's a far cry from eyjafjallajokull Jul 09 11:39:42 Sweet, just optimized my animation code from 89% CPU usage down to 10% :) Jul 09 11:40:00 Big Brother Apple is at it again: http://www.slashgear.com/ndrive-gps-app-disappears-from-apple-app-store-kill-switch-the-culprit-0893419/ Jul 09 11:40:14 nice alterego Jul 09 11:40:16 how Jul 09 11:41:07 pupnik: well, I was redrawing the whole graphic every frame, I Was also calculating some movement stuff per frame, rather than at the beginning of the "transition" Jul 09 11:41:46 mhm Jul 09 11:42:26 I got 50% optimization from moving some calculations out of each frame, and a further 30% by rendering to a pixmap when the graphic changes and blitting to the widget with just rotation. Jul 09 11:42:59 Small decrease in visual quality, but well worth it for CPU usuage, I do want to use this whilst I'm out and about :) Jul 09 11:43:05 anyone know a RTS for the N900? Jul 09 11:43:14 bos wars Jul 09 11:43:17 pupnik: I added smooth transitions to the widgets on the left: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/Screenshot-20100706-185818.png Jul 09 11:43:17 dune 2 Jul 09 11:43:38 dune 2 is the tits, shame I can't enter any numbers .. Jul 09 11:43:49 ? Jul 09 11:43:49 To answer the security questions .. Jul 09 11:44:11 hm, i never had problems with that Jul 09 11:44:23 try again and hope for an answer that needs a word? :p Jul 09 11:44:23 So your Fn key works? Jul 09 11:44:26 (i think most do) Jul 09 11:44:29 PhonicUK, http://tinyurl.com/2825c7o Jul 09 11:44:35 Oh Jul 09 11:44:45 Termana, oddly enough thats what I did first Jul 09 11:44:47 I always get ones that seem to need a number ... Jul 09 11:45:00 you can enter numbers in dosbox Jul 09 11:45:05 back Jul 09 11:45:37 i kind of have a problem Jul 09 11:45:45 load javispedro's N900 keymap in dos, then hold FN+Number Jul 09 11:45:45 my N900 fell into a pit of water Jul 09 11:45:47 and now it dosent on Jul 09 11:46:18 did you pull the battery out when you fished it out, or just try to power it back up...? Jul 09 11:46:39 hildon seems to replace my standard Ok|Cancel buttonbox with a buttonbox containing just "Done". however, accepted() isn't emitted when "done" is pressed, though rejected() is emitted when the blurred area is clicked. what do i need to connect my slot to for it to catch the signal Done emits? Jul 09 11:46:39 i removed the battery and let it dry Jul 09 11:46:50 and after an hour i put it back and it wont on now Jul 09 11:46:55 an hour? Jul 09 11:46:59 ya Jul 09 11:47:03 xDaReaperx, yes, its generally considered not a good idea to dump a device in water Jul 09 11:47:05 xDaReaperx, also Jul 09 11:47:07 you need to add an extra day or two to that drying time. Jul 09 11:47:16 two Jul 09 11:47:24 xDaReaperx, take the battery out, and dump the phone in rice for two days Jul 09 11:47:24 in a warm place Jul 09 11:47:26 i didn't dump it in water , it slippedo ff my hand Jul 09 11:47:45 don't switch it on unless you're sure it's completely dry Jul 09 11:47:46 2 days ? omg o_O Jul 09 11:47:57 can cause permanent damage otherwise Jul 09 11:47:58 it wont on ^ Jul 09 11:48:02 oh Jul 09 11:48:08 xDaReaperx, you might end up with a small piece of rice in the phone, but it shouldn't do too much damage and the rice will soak the water up Jul 09 11:48:11 ah.. Jul 09 11:48:15 stop trying to turn it on. take the battery out... Jul 09 11:48:32 Okay i should place it in rice ? also the battery ? Jul 09 11:48:33 let it dry for a while, and then check when it's completely dry Jul 09 11:48:40 you know water, conducting electricity? it's bad for business. Jul 09 11:48:48 wont the rice cause scratches to occer on the screen Jul 09 11:48:57 no, its rice, not sandpaper Jul 09 11:48:59 put it _in_ the device Jul 09 11:49:00 okay i removed it now Jul 09 11:49:01 anyone using the N900 as a GPS for a bike? Jul 09 11:49:03 xDaReaperx, yes put the battery in rice as well. But leave it out of the device and the back cover off Jul 09 11:49:14 dry it for ages Jul 09 11:49:19 crashanddie, I do, but only for recording Jul 09 11:49:28 okay i'll do that ... i didn't know it would be so serious Jul 09 11:49:36 and bike in my context is bicycle, perhaps you meant a motorcycle? Jul 09 11:49:38 flux: yeah, did the same with the n810 Jul 09 11:49:48 i hope it dries within a day , i dunno if it will Jul 09 11:49:55 flux: barely used the n900 for that. Well, used to bicyle, now motorcycle Jul 09 11:50:01 you can't tell - wait 2 days. Jul 09 11:50:25 oh well i'll have to tell my company about this and get a replacement phone for 2 days then Jul 09 11:50:30 if it's broken you just need to buy a new one - water damage isn't covered by anyone's warranty Jul 09 11:50:43 my company pays for the phones Jul 09 11:50:52 just buy a new one then :P Jul 09 11:50:57 it is covered by most of the insurance policies anyone with sense and a phone like the n900 has though. Jul 09 11:51:14 I even had phone insurance and they wouldn't pay for water damage when I got rained on very hard... Jul 09 11:51:20 oh , well let me try the rice thing first Jul 09 11:51:22 :( Jul 09 11:51:24 that's like arson insurance Jul 09 11:51:24 i dunno how well it will work Jul 09 11:51:31 from the homeowner Jul 09 11:51:45 put it in the microwave so it dries faster Jul 09 11:51:50 i dont have any phone insurance Jul 09 11:51:51 no wait! Jul 09 11:52:00 pupnik: arson insurance for cigars :) Jul 09 11:52:12 im sure we all heard that story Jul 09 11:52:13 brb Jul 09 11:53:04 if you're paying for insurance that pays out for wilful damage (any kind), then you have to wilfully damage the device, or you lose in the transaction Jul 09 11:54:03 I have been sorely tempted to "accidentally" drop a few of my phones in the past now, just to see what I get for em :p Jul 09 11:54:03 If you take care of the device then you will, a-priori, be paying for people who mistreat their devices Jul 09 11:54:17 crashanddie: I do use my N900 as GPS for my bike Jul 09 11:54:18 Pull the battery, place in an oven at 70C for a day Jul 09 11:54:32 i did 50c Jul 09 11:54:33 Rice does not work. Jul 09 11:54:49 back Jul 09 11:54:50 70C sounds quite high :-o Jul 09 11:54:53 Consider what happens if you leave rice out in a dampish environment Jul 09 11:54:55 does the water get inside the battery anyway? Jul 09 11:54:57 i actually placed it in rice already Jul 09 11:55:03 in a small bucket Jul 09 11:55:10 Does it immediately swell? Jul 09 11:55:21 it didn't swell its still the same Jul 09 11:55:33 no, it swells over a period of a few hours/days, which is why you leave phones in rice for a day or two, not like 5 minutes. Jul 09 11:55:39 It's not - quite - useless - but elevated temperature and - ideally - dissasembly is a lot better Jul 09 11:56:02 a day or two at ambient temperature is not enough to remove deeply entrained water - especialy under chips Jul 09 11:56:06 nidO: rice isn't going to make trapped water (in electronics) evaporate Jul 09 11:56:38 well i don't have any idea about disassembling the N900 Jul 09 11:56:42 no-one's ever said it will, but it provides a very very dry environment for the device which *does* aid evaporation Jul 09 11:57:00 Anyone up for properly packaging zip and submitting it to extras-devel? :) Jul 09 11:57:08 yeah but that aid will not suffice for many things. then when power is applied *poof* Jul 09 11:57:34 is only unzip available X-Fade ? Jul 09 11:58:04 pupnik: the one in extras-devel is an old diablo one and can't be promoted because of wrong section. Jul 09 11:58:16 nidO: A somewhat dry environment - it's not much drier than ambient. Jul 09 11:58:17 BugBlue: how did you attach it? Did you think of connecting the charger to the battery? Jul 09 11:58:28 X-Fade, i'll do it, but wasn't it in -devel? Jul 09 11:58:31 nidO: And evaporation at 20C is slow anyway Jul 09 11:58:32 xDaReaperx: place on a warn place (like >40°C <70°C) and let dry for AT LEAST 5 days Jul 09 11:58:41 MohammadAG51: wrong section. Jul 09 11:58:53 well it is, thats why desiccants are called desiccants, and maintaining a dry environment is the whole point of them Jul 09 11:59:01 place upright, so any water can come off the board Jul 09 11:59:03 MohammadAG51: But it was an automatic import from diablo, so no active maintainer. Jul 09 11:59:09 oh Jul 09 11:59:17 yes but dessicants won't help if there's no exposed surface area due to trapped water nidO Jul 09 11:59:17 i'll port it, i need it for xarchiver Jul 09 11:59:46 nidO: Dessicants work as a function of the absolute humidity, and the temperature^3 or so Jul 09 11:59:59 hit a few times to a not too hard surface (like a towel) with the bottom small side, to make water come off board even quicker Jul 09 12:00:04 DocScrutinizer: hmm i dunno if it is safe to place it in an oven Jul 09 12:00:06 pupnik an n900 is no more watertight to trapping water as it is waterproof to preventing it getting into the device in the first place Jul 09 12:00:17 xDaReaperx: no oven Jul 09 12:00:38 yeah but water creeps into fissures, and those fissures have tiny surface area. so you get a large volume to a small exposed air-surface Jul 09 12:00:41 okay i'll try to do that also Jul 09 12:00:50 Increasing the temperature from 20 to 70C _vastly_ increases the vapour pressure of water Jul 09 12:00:54 http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/kinetic/watvap.html Jul 09 12:01:04 hmm i'll try to place it on the terrace its quiet hot out , around 41 C Jul 09 12:01:15 70° is upper limit for device, but way too high for battery Jul 09 12:01:16 i love how some people here have good science backgrounds Jul 09 12:01:59 pupnik: it's the internet, everyone's an engineer Jul 09 12:02:16 precisely because that is false, is why i mentioned that Jul 09 12:02:17 Going from 20 to 80C, the vapour pressure goes from 19 to 350 Jul 09 12:02:27 xDaReaperx: see pupnik's comments. That's why it needs AT LEAST 5 days to dry Jul 09 12:02:43 Which means that it will dry over a dozen times faster Jul 09 12:02:44 i've placed it on the terrace for now Jul 09 12:02:58 okay i'll keep it for 5 days then and inform my company about it Jul 09 12:03:15 xDaReaperx: I wont place it a direct sun light (but a hot place is a good idead Jul 09 12:03:24 xDaReaperx: don't forget to treat the battery as well :-D Jul 09 12:03:40 ty DocScrutinizer, I had no idea what the practical minimums were Jul 09 12:04:00 pupnik: long parmatic experience Jul 09 12:04:09 no scientific numbers Jul 09 12:04:10 crashanddie: I don't need to connect the charger, I have reserve batteries Jul 09 12:04:10 now what is the likelihood that the device is already fried after powering it on while damp? Jul 09 12:04:14 its not in direct sun atm ... the terrace floor does get heated quick and i placed the phone inside the bucket filled with rice along with the battery Jul 09 12:04:18 pragmatic* Jul 09 12:04:42 pupnik: main issue is corrosion Jul 09 12:04:55 it only tried to on it twice Jul 09 12:05:05 BugBlue: hmm, what bike? Jul 09 12:05:05 after which i got in here and removed the battery Jul 09 12:05:06 that will happen mostly no matter if you try switch on or not, as long as battery inserted Jul 09 12:05:13 pupnik: corrosion happens between components, and even inside the PCB, when it's damp. Jul 09 12:05:29 yeah, but it takes hours, or even days Jul 09 12:05:33 BugBlue: how do you use the GPS, just to see the map and then drive as you would normally (using roadsigns), or turn-by-turn? Jul 09 12:05:37 when unpowered, yes Jul 09 12:06:31 crashanddie: depends... Jul 09 12:06:47 if I drive over long dikes in the dark I use the map to see upfront when I have a corner Jul 09 12:07:01 crashanddie: than I can drive faster and safer Jul 09 12:07:13 Stuff all the sciencey crap. Jul 09 12:07:34 SpeedEvil, I know someone that purposely wet their n900 and then used rice for 2 days and it worked fine. Jul 09 12:07:37 crashanddie: my bike is a http://www.bestbike.nl/images/fietsen/Batavus%20Intermezzo%20Deluxe%20221.jpg Jul 09 12:07:42 pupnik: xDaReaperx: likelihood for main board to be damaged: very low if you took out battery after a few minutes. Likelihood for earpiece or main cam to have a severe humidity defect: moderate Jul 09 12:07:56 I'm sure most people saw the tekseven tests Termana :) Jul 09 12:07:57 hmm, its a shame opendune isn't fullscreen :\ Jul 09 12:08:16 Termana: rice is nonsense Jul 09 12:08:21 BugBlue: ik dacht meer aan een bromfiets dan een gewoone fiets ;) Jul 09 12:08:23 So your saying the mainboard is surely damaged ? Jul 09 12:08:30 hmm, i'll try some more sunlight baking Jul 09 12:08:31 i dunno how to find that out now Jul 09 12:08:38 nidO, there isn't too many n900 videos on youtube, so I'm sure people have :P Jul 09 12:08:39 i'm doing that ^ Jul 09 12:08:54 xDaReaperx: no, the mainboard most probably is fine Jul 09 12:09:02 okay Jul 09 12:09:07 Termana: Rice is not magic. It does not make humidity content zero. Jul 09 12:09:23 DocScrutinizer, I'm just saying, rice seems to have worked previously. Jul 09 12:09:26 SpeedEvil: exactly Jul 09 12:09:36 Termana: Drying is proportional to the difference in the vapour pressure inside and outside the wet object. Jul 09 12:09:48 Termana: rice just didn't stop normal drying to work :-P Jul 09 12:10:56 Termana: I.E. it did just nothing Jul 09 12:11:09 Termana: At 20C, this is 19mmHg - maximum. In 30% humidity - you are at 12mmHg difference anyway. Adding rice if this drops humidity 10% to 20% - you are now at 14mmHg difference. Jul 09 12:11:48 If you heat it to 60C, you get 130mmHg difference, it dries a _lot_ faster. Jul 09 12:11:54 how would rice drop % humidity below 30% ?? Jul 09 12:12:01 i feel like a god Jul 09 12:12:02 DocScrutinizer, the device turned on after being in the rice, where it wouldn't before. Or are you saying, the rice made no difference, the drying was natural? Jul 09 12:12:14 yes Jul 09 12:12:35 i feel like a dog Jul 09 12:13:11 Ah, I'll keep that in mind. Not that I intend to be dropping mine in water when I get it. Ordering on Monday/Tuesday (FINALLY!) Jul 09 12:13:17 hmm, no Jul 09 12:13:21 it's not working Jul 09 12:13:34 jacekowski, not so god-like now are we? :P Jul 09 12:13:36 DocScrutinizer is an actual paid electronics engineer who has worked on phones. (or has been in the past) Jul 09 12:14:01 SpeedEvil, I know what DocScrutinizer is/was :P Jul 09 12:14:17 Did you see me arguing the point further? :P Jul 09 12:15:16 DocScrutinizer: take a large amount of rice and throw it at the A/C controls until the A/C comes on... Jul 09 12:16:25 lbt: how would that ever happen? rice won't magically reduce % air humidity for all times, by infinitely eating amounts of water Jul 09 12:16:44 * SpeedEvil should measure this. Jul 09 12:16:49 But - meh Jul 09 12:16:52 DocScrutinizer: well, given unlimited rice... Jul 09 12:17:11 so - since rice usually isn't vacuum packed - it evidentally can't reduce average air humidity below 30% Jul 09 12:19:07 anyway a somewhat higher temperature beats rice and low air humidity percentage every time Jul 09 12:20:20 http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf60056a008 Jul 09 12:21:55 and my experience regarding drying PCBA comes from several cases where I simply disassembled the device with the Coke inside, and gave it a thorough shower and a shot with pressurized air after that - then dry it on the heating for several days and usually that will recover wrom Coke, coffee and whatnot, as long as user removed battery *immediately* Jul 09 12:22:46 s/wrom/from Jul 09 12:23:16 admittedly backup batteries are a PITA here Jul 09 12:23:42 DocScrutinizer: so you are saying that the voltages can fry stuff Jul 09 12:23:52 e.g. someone got water on the n900 and kept using it Jul 09 12:23:57 pupnik: water + electricity = electrolysis Jul 09 12:24:06 so no matter if you remove main battery immediately, start to dry the device as soon and as fast as possible Jul 09 12:24:27 i wonder if nokia wants their borken n900 back Jul 09 12:24:27 pupnik: you get rapid and accellerated corrosion between the components, and trakcs. Jul 09 12:24:30 pupnik: see SpeedEvil ^^^ Jul 09 12:24:47 ah ok ty Jul 09 12:25:30 stupid question: can't we just paint boards etc with a coat of lacquer? Jul 09 12:25:34 pupnik: after 2 days the wired components fall off the PCB Jul 09 12:25:52 pupnik: that's often done Jul 09 12:26:04 pupnik: it makes the board harder to repair Jul 09 12:26:08 for circuits designed to operate in hostile environments Jul 09 12:26:19 pupnik: so it's not done as much as it would need to be to actually make it water resistant Jul 09 12:26:21 like automotive Jul 09 12:26:31 pupnik: making a phone properly water resistant would be hard. Jul 09 12:26:34 Some PC overclockers paint boards when using extreme cooling that causes condensed water on the components Jul 09 12:26:39 Military often dips them into gel and puts a metal casing on top Jul 09 12:26:46 pupnik, golden shellback Jul 09 12:26:57 At least, .RU military. Have not seen NATO stuff Jul 09 12:27:22 RST38h: same for automotive Jul 09 12:27:23 RST38h: i bought 5kg of nonconductive silicone grease for such experiments Jul 09 12:27:40 RST38h: for expensive devices like ignition controller Jul 09 12:27:47 pupnik: should also be heat-conductive or it won't work =) Jul 09 12:27:56 Doc: Makes sense Jul 09 12:28:07 RST38h: that's the funny question - it might be better than air - want to try filling a PSU with it Jul 09 12:28:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLFDT_I2Up4 Jul 09 12:28:35 * DocScrutinizer also needs better cooling Jul 09 12:28:48 My bedroom needs better cooling Jul 09 12:28:51 unbearable Jul 09 12:28:54 * SpeedEvil solves that problem by being in scotland. Jul 09 12:29:06 ~weather EDDN Jul 09 12:29:09 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.07.09 1220 UTC; Dew Point: 48 F (9 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.09 in. Hg (1019 hPa); Relative Humidity: 24%; Temperature: 89 F (32 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the S (170 degrees) at 6 MPH (5 KT) (direction variable) Jul 09 12:29:20 ~weather HEL Jul 09 12:29:23 I can't find station code "HEL" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Jul 09 12:29:23 :( Jul 09 12:29:27 ~weather EDIN Jul 09 12:29:30 I can't find station code "EDIN" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Jul 09 12:29:57 feels like 48% humidity though Jul 09 12:31:01 ~weather EFHE Jul 09 12:31:03 I can't find station code "EFHE" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Jul 09 12:31:15 doesnt like you much Jul 09 12:31:20 Hmm... Is that golden shellback for real? Jul 09 12:31:21 ops Jul 09 12:31:23 ~weather EFHF Jul 09 12:31:26 Helsinki-Malmi, Finland; (EFHF) 60-15N 025-03E 28M; last updated: 2010.07.09 1220 UTC; Dew Point: 59 F (15 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.97 in. Hg (1015 hPa); Relative Humidity: 50%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 78 F (26 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Weather: Cumulonimbus clouds observed; Wind: from the SW (220 degrees) at 12 MPH (10 KT) (direction variable) Jul 09 12:31:36 ~weather EGSH Jul 09 12:31:39 Norwich Weather Centre, United Kingdom; (EGSH) 52-38N 001-18E 0M; last updated: 2010.07.09 1150 UTC; Dew Point: 44 F (7 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.97 in. Hg (1015 hPa); Relative Humidity: 24%; Temperature: 84 F (29 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the WSW (240 degrees) at 9 MPH (8 KT) (direction variable) Jul 09 12:31:44 !weather EGPN Jul 09 12:32:05 ~weather EGPN Jul 09 12:32:08 Dundee / Riverside, United Kingdom; (EGPN) 56-27N 003-01W; last updated: 2010.07.09 1220 UTC; Dew Point: 57 F (14 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.80 in. Hg (1009 hPa); Relative Humidity: 93%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 59 F (15 C); Visibility: 5 mile(s); Weather: Light rain, drizzle; Wind: from the NE (050 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT) (direction variable) Jul 09 12:32:26 lols 15 Jul 09 12:32:27 That has got to be the most useless feature on a public channel :D Jul 09 12:32:27 wtf?! 15°? Jul 09 12:32:29 About right - though 20 miles northeast of me Jul 09 12:32:30 good old scotland Jul 09 12:32:48 http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Glenrothes/hour_by_hour.html Jul 09 12:33:30 OTOH - cold is easily dealt with by more clothes Jul 09 12:33:35 heat is not. Jul 09 12:33:42 yep Jul 09 12:33:43 (well - not strictly true) Jul 09 12:33:55 http://www.veskimo.com/servlet/StoreFront Jul 09 12:34:01 if you count those as clothes Jul 09 12:34:53 * DocScrutinizer is off, for a shower, and then a Scotch on SpeedEvil salute Jul 09 12:35:01 wave. Jul 09 12:35:02 i think, on a sunny day, i'd like to see a girl with less clothes than usually Jul 09 12:35:09 rather than dressed with that Jul 09 12:35:34 mayby Jul 09 12:35:41 maybe Jul 09 12:36:12 personally, I find just switching on my air con works well :) Jul 09 12:38:51 AC totally uncommon in Germany Jul 09 12:39:19 we got decent heating, for winter Jul 09 12:39:53 its not that common in the uk either tbh, but my apartment's fitted with it \o/ Jul 09 12:40:07 in Spain they got nothing. Neither AC nor decent oven/heating nor even decent windows:-P Jul 09 12:43:31 lcuk: that video is awesome Jul 09 12:46:08 lcuk: how does it work for the battery, though? Jul 09 12:46:37 ask them, not me :p Jul 09 12:47:45 havent looked into it, but is it legit? I got as far as the 2008 video saying "its available soon" and the domain it gave going to some blog, and assumed it was dud Jul 09 12:48:06 DocScrutinizer51: racist much? Jul 09 12:48:30 eh?? Jul 09 12:49:14 ~weather PGF Jul 09 12:49:17 I can't find station code "PGF" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). Jul 09 12:49:21 damn Jul 09 12:49:30 i really don't think web-sites are compatible with mobiles - their flash/javascript needs too much energy - in a physics sense Jul 09 12:49:55 ~weather LFMP Jul 09 12:49:58 Perpignan, France; (LFMP) 42-44N 002-52E 48M; last updated: 2010.07.09 1200 UTC; Dew Point: 69 F (21 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.06 in. Hg (1018 hPa); Relative Humidity: 65%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 82 F (28 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the E (080 degrees) at 10 MPH (9 KT) Jul 09 12:50:58 Funny, my digital thermometre reads 32C Jul 09 12:51:51 probably urban bonus Jul 09 12:51:58 crashanddie: Pff only 32? We have 37 here. Jul 09 12:52:13 airports usually are a few degrees less Jul 09 12:52:14 ~weather LFPB Jul 09 12:52:17 Paris / Le Bourget, France; (LFPB) 48-58N 002-27E 65M; last updated: 2010.07.09 1230 UTC; Dew Point: 60 F (16 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.03 in. Hg (1017 hPa); Relative Humidity: 38%; Temperature: 89 F (32 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: Variable at 2 MPH (2 KT) Jul 09 12:52:18 X-Fade: it's bad weather today Jul 09 12:52:34 ~weather Jul 09 12:52:49 does ti actually give yesterday's weather? Jul 09 12:52:56 two days ago was unbearable Jul 09 12:53:57 hi everyone Jul 09 13:03:20 lardman: ping? Jul 09 13:07:40 i get the morotola S9 headset Jul 09 13:07:49 and are just great with my n900 Jul 09 13:08:21 all function tested so far get work Jul 09 13:21:18 hmhm, is it just me or missed called from hidden numbers are associated a posteriori to a wrong number? Jul 09 13:22:41 does anybody has a solution to sync IM data about contacts when I sync with funambole Jul 09 13:28:06 Corsac: can't reproduce any such problem on PR1.1.1 Jul 09 13:30:19 I'm on PR1.2, yesterday I had a hidden number call, today in my call log I can see a missed call from one of my contact who did *not* call me :) Jul 09 13:30:27 X-Fade: pong Jul 09 13:33:25 Metal sluuuug! :D Jul 09 13:34:28 lardman: Sorry should have unpinged ;) Was looking at build failures on OBS and noticed that f2c was missing. Jul 09 13:34:37 lardman: But it was in extras-devel, uploaded by you. Jul 09 13:35:19 what was being built? Jul 09 13:36:15 lardman: I think fort77 Jul 09 13:36:41 fort77 is just a script that pretends to be g77 Jul 09 13:36:50 but yeah it has a dep on f2l Jul 09 13:36:57 f2c even Jul 09 13:37:10 oh nice, bq24150 actually does microcycles on its own if I keep prodding its watchdog timer Jul 09 13:39:56 Anyone know how I can reset the QT theme to the default? Jul 09 13:40:19 So one less thing we have to decide on for a jrbme, we can just go with the threshold that the engineers at TI :D Jul 09 13:40:54 ShadowJK: that's a long known fact Jul 09 13:41:44 I only found it in the datasheet just now and decided to test :) Jul 09 13:42:20 Previously my script exited at any noncharging mode Jul 09 13:43:03 ShadowJK: mhm, my original draft was for a oneshot charging cycle Jul 09 13:43:03 which made the 32s watchdog expire, which reset parameters to default (meaning 3.7V regulation voltage) Jul 09 13:43:36 anyone know how to right click in Debian LXDE? Jul 09 13:43:43 And I never waited to 3700-recharge :P Jul 09 13:43:53 sure Jul 09 13:45:31 I suspect if VBUS isn't present, we cant to set /CE and high impedance mode, and stop poking the timer? Jul 09 13:45:54 But at other times keep poking the timer as long as things look sensible Jul 09 13:46:47 where I can find all repository for maemo ? Jul 09 13:47:17 http://repository.maemo.org/ Jul 09 13:47:48 but don't try to use non-fremantle repos on n900, don't try to use sdk repo Jul 09 13:48:41 ShadowJK: thanks but there no more repos ? Jul 09 13:48:45 *is Jul 09 13:48:50 what other repos are you after? Jul 09 13:49:47 ShadowJK: sorry, you lost me Jul 09 13:50:05 there're 3 maemo repos, 2 nokia ones, an ovi one - beyond that, you just have ones from individual developers that host their software on their own repos Jul 09 13:50:12 mozilla and amsn being two examples Jul 09 13:50:24 opera Jul 09 13:50:27 sygic Jul 09 13:50:40 ok so I'm looking from individual developpers :d Jul 09 13:51:00 nadley: why? Jul 09 13:51:11 to know if there is interesting software Jul 09 13:51:44 well the mozilla repo has firefox in it Jul 09 13:51:50 and the amsn repo has amsn in it. Jul 09 13:52:04 the sygic repo has sygic in it, but you need to buy that anyway Jul 09 13:52:11 ShadowJK: of course if there's no VBUS then there's little use in tickling 24150 timer to keep some useless setup Jul 09 13:52:29 otoh it won't hurt Jul 09 13:52:44 ok so for the moment just Firefox is interesting Jul 09 13:52:50 as it's not any more effort than checking for VBUS by polling Jul 09 13:53:33 Anyone know how to right click in Easy Debian? :\ Jul 09 13:53:39 I can't remove one of the toolbars Jul 09 13:57:32 PhonicUK: hold down the "mouse" Jul 09 13:57:44 Tried that, it used to work but doesnt anymore Jul 09 13:58:13 VNC in from your desktop and right click Jul 09 13:58:16 :P Jul 09 13:58:25 I'm at work, can't connect to my phone :P Jul 09 14:00:12 set up usb networking! Jul 09 14:00:13 :D Jul 09 14:01:24 lol Jul 09 14:02:52 tervetuloa mukulat Jul 09 14:02:59 moi moi Jul 09 14:03:47 moinmoin Jul 09 14:04:05 Someone has been watching swedish tv I suspect Jul 09 14:04:15 :D Jul 09 14:04:22 it's a wiki! Jul 09 14:05:02 sjk: mind I've - in keeping w/ typical ignorant IRC-style - no idea what the hell that means ;) Jul 09 14:05:43 tybollt: means "kick my ass" :-P Jul 09 14:05:46 Anyway I was hoping our good friend the microb developer would be around - but appears not :-/ Jul 09 14:06:06 DocScrutinizer: I trust you're homing in right now? :P Jul 09 14:06:09 tybollt: put the first line on the side of a van and you might get arrested Jul 09 14:06:23 :-D Jul 09 14:07:09 something like "Welcome children" Jul 09 14:07:54 cu later chaps Jul 09 14:08:33 cool, USB networking setup is *easy* Jul 09 14:08:43 it's hard to use it to route packets, but who cares about that Jul 09 14:09:14 google.translate thinks tervetuloa mukulat is Finnish Jul 09 14:09:28 as long as you only want routing, and not bridging or nat, it's simple? :P Jul 09 14:10:02 ShadowJK: sftp is way faster with a wire Jul 09 14:10:13 welcome seems right, the children part is kinda.... Jul 09 14:10:25 well it's misspelled Jul 09 14:11:07 comes over like potatoes here, or something about tubes or dunno Jul 09 14:11:37 ugh Jul 09 14:11:50 translate.google is pretty unusable on microb :) Jul 09 14:12:00 Fi->En: tubers, Fi->De: Knollen Jul 09 14:12:10 "knollen"? Jul 09 14:12:14 whatever Jul 09 14:12:22 in .se that's almost "knulla" -> fuck Jul 09 14:12:29 patattoes are sorta "knollen" Jul 09 14:12:41 potatoes Jul 09 14:13:42 some round vegetable, usually growing underground. I'd think that's a "knolle" Jul 09 14:14:04 unsure what tubers is, in English Jul 09 14:14:24 http://translate.google.com/?hl=de#auto|de|tervetuloa mukulat Jul 09 14:14:42 http://translate.google.com/?hl=de#auto|en|tervetuloa mukulat Jul 09 14:15:21 ooh tubers == Knollen Jul 09 14:15:28 it's supposed to be kk not k Jul 09 14:16:25 not any better Jul 09 14:16:42 mukkulat is unknown Jul 09 14:16:58 screwit Jul 09 14:17:07 what a nonsense Jul 09 14:17:19 sjk is correct though Jul 09 14:17:34 I think I got "mukkutal" from a .se TV show Jul 09 14:17:49 Well google translate is åretty crap at finnish as is Jul 09 14:18:22 ok, not only missed calls are associated to the wrong number Jul 09 14:18:25 received ones too Jul 09 14:18:27 and feeding it finnish from the northern valleys of sweden doesn't make it better :) Jul 09 14:18:50 Corsac: can't reproduce Jul 09 14:18:58 Corsac, did you do an in-place upgrade or a reflash? Jul 09 14:20:32 oh, removing the -t actually gets hits from .fi instead of .se heh Jul 09 14:22:23 upgrade Jul 09 14:23:18 my charger is even worse today Jul 09 14:24:20 sounds like usb port is about to come off Jul 09 14:24:27 DocScrutinizer: looking at the event log sqlite db there's no phone number Jul 09 14:24:34 Corsac, try backing up and reflashing Jul 09 14:24:41 hmhm, wait Jul 09 14:24:53 when was PR1.2 released exactly? Jul 09 14:26:03 sx Jul 09 14:26:55 google translate could do much better if someone gave it some simple grammar parsing skills so it didn't treat each "word" as a unique word.. Jul 09 14:27:18 PhonicUK: how exactly is that supposed to fix anything? Jul 09 14:27:24 ShadowJK: actually it doesn't afaik Jul 09 14:27:34 Corsac, the upgrade has been known to cause problems with contacts Jul 09 14:27:58 ShadowJK: it tries to find similar passages in textx with translation Jul 09 14:28:16 PhonicUK: and the backup/reflash/restore will recreate contacts db “from scratch”? Jul 09 14:28:21 yes Jul 09 14:29:36 DocScrutinizer, yeah I mean with finnish that's going to require an enormous database of text since every verb has like 30 forms, and nouns probably as many :P Jul 09 14:29:55 hehe Jul 09 14:30:53 gah, press+hold refuses to show menus in LXDE :\ Jul 09 14:30:54 wtf Jul 09 14:31:05 plus Finland isn't in EU parliament? Main source for translations google is using Jul 09 14:31:31 It is Jul 09 14:34:41 Just the nature of it, that you can construct arbitrarily long words, would make it hard for google translate, I'd think :) Jul 09 14:35:12 that's not any different to German Jul 09 14:36:40 Well atleast german has die/der/das in/im/auf/aus/mit/ohne and all those tiny things as separate distinct words :P Jul 09 14:37:06 yep Jul 09 14:37:23 instead of as just another thing that gets tagged on to the start, end, or even to the middle(!) of a word :P Jul 09 14:38:06 taiwanese has some declinations for 1..100 objects Jul 09 14:38:16 that's fun Jul 09 14:39:25 * ShadowJK barely passes the basic language test in finnish anyway :O Jul 09 14:39:37 three spoons has no letter/vowel in commom to two spoons Jul 09 14:40:09 (the basic language test being: if you went to town X, and someone tried to sell you off as a manwhore, would you know what's going on?) Jul 09 14:40:16 as far as I was able to undertsand it Jul 09 14:53:38 lol - "First the Iphone4 was left in a bar and now the bars have left the Iphone4" Jul 09 14:54:58 good one...seems to be accurate too Jul 09 14:58:08 kgdb on armel, anybody? Jul 09 15:01:35 hi Jul 09 15:01:47 did meego abandoned modest? Jul 09 15:02:01 Seems likely Jul 09 15:02:06 Given the Qt bent Jul 09 15:02:16 and the fact that Modest is, well, Modest. Jul 09 15:04:32 GAN900: Qt is just buzzyword in meego - at least in netbook UI Jul 09 15:04:58 isnt that because as far as the netbook ui goes its basically just moblin? Jul 09 15:05:11 does meego ship an email client? Jul 09 15:05:35 nidO: it is Jul 09 15:11:34 Is it possible to force N900 into fast charge mode when plugged into USB? Jul 09 15:12:08 itll always go to fast charge mode if it can. Jul 09 15:12:14 Hrm .. Jul 09 15:12:20 Can't say I've seen that happen .. Jul 09 15:12:34 you using a dumb charger with the wrong cable type, or a pc that doesnt know what the phone is? Jul 09 15:12:51 Neither, I'm using the USB data cable. Jul 09 15:13:10 Wall chargers work fine. Jul 09 15:13:24 data cable connected to a pc? Jul 09 15:13:30 Yes Jul 09 15:13:36 possible, if charging is only one thing you need Jul 09 15:14:14 if it's not providing a full charge, its probable the pc doesnt know what the phone is so cant negotiate a full charge, or you have other things connected to the same usb bus and the bus is unpowered Jul 09 15:14:36 Hrm, I probably have a mouse plugged into the same bus Jul 09 15:15:17 D- and D+ must be shorted on cable for fast charging ability detection Jul 09 15:15:49 um, not hooked up to a pc Jul 09 15:15:58 Actually, all the USB ports on my machine use seperate BUS :) Jul 09 15:15:59 thats only needed when using a data cable with a dumb charger Jul 09 15:16:14 as theres nothing on the other end of the cable for the device to negotiate power levels with Jul 09 15:19:41 hmm Jul 09 15:19:54 Nokia-N900:~# ifdown usb0 Jul 09 15:19:56 sh: missing ] Jul 09 15:19:59 :/ Jul 09 15:20:14 kerio: I get errors for both ifup and down, still works Jul 09 15:20:26 I suspect it's to do with ifup.d ifdown.d screpts .. Jul 09 15:20:28 ~scripts .. Jul 09 15:20:29 yeah Jul 09 15:20:32 but it's not supposed to do that Jul 09 15:20:33 :/ Jul 09 15:21:37 No, I suppose not. Jul 09 15:28:46 Yo guys Jul 09 15:28:55 ~botsnack Jul 09 15:28:55 aw, gee, kerio Jul 09 15:32:07 good grief Jul 09 15:32:16 there's a patent on delivering emails over wireless networks? Jul 09 15:32:37 Wouldn't that kinda incriminate every single wireless-router manufacturer in the world? Jul 09 15:32:38 apparently, i was interested to note that they havent included nokia in the laundry list of companies to sue, though./ Jul 09 15:33:00 i think the missing ] is what prevents the phone from going back to the "empty mass storage" default mode Jul 09 15:39:16 alterego, I love that Android thread. Jul 09 15:41:07 crashanddie, the USPO is infallable. Jul 09 15:41:09 Shut up. Jul 09 15:42:36 hola Jul 09 15:42:37 q pedo Jul 09 15:42:41 que putas es maemo? Jul 09 15:43:53 crapper Jul 09 15:44:34 usps is kinda funny, they're the only postal service that has used something else than the destination country's postal service ime Jul 09 15:45:05 (they put the package on a friggin bus, and the bus dropped it off a a nearby gas station, the attendant called me) Jul 09 15:45:36 GAN900: The "Shoulod Nokia use Android" thread? :) Jul 09 15:46:09 UPS is delightfully different, they flew it to holland and were "wtf, finland?", and then went to dutch post office and mailed it to me (in .fi) Jul 09 15:47:39 And whatever Nokia store used, dhl I think, sent a semitruck to my door to deliver my N900.. Jul 09 15:47:52 Having my N900 repaired tomorrow :S Jul 09 15:47:54 that was a bit wtf Jul 09 15:48:10 dodgy metal bit keeps falling off Jul 09 15:48:42 there are metal bits on n900? :) Jul 09 15:49:02 ShadowJK: same question here :) Jul 09 15:49:14 covered the left hand hinge for the stand on the underneath of the back cover Jul 09 15:49:24 looks like a backwards L Jul 09 15:51:27 the little metal bit that kept the little stand closed fell of the stand and stuck to the magnet in the back side of mt n900 Jul 09 15:51:32 I think I haven't lost it yet Jul 09 15:51:46 * mgedmin should try to glue it back on Jul 09 15:52:29 I tried to melt the 2 plastic rivets that pop through the metal bit to hold it on again Jul 09 15:52:32 but it hasn't helped Jul 09 15:52:52 taking the cover off/on bends the back cover too much and i Just think it's poorly constructed Jul 09 15:56:52 the mugen back cover needs so much less force to remove and attach Jul 09 15:57:13 even so, it has never come off unintended :) Jul 09 15:57:20 mugen? Jul 09 15:57:38 They make the 2400mAh battery Jul 09 15:57:47 with new back cover so it'll fit Jul 09 15:57:57 A "bitter" Connecticut priest blew $1.3m of his church's funds on "swanky hotels and male escorts" Jul 09 15:57:59 OMG! WHA! Jul 09 15:58:07 * RST38h moos approvingly Jul 09 16:02:00 I can't believe Nokia management is dumb enough to handle the N900 Flash issue like they have. Jul 09 16:02:15 Hey all Jul 09 16:02:19 The irony of Anssi's comment on Texrat's blog is incredible. Jul 09 16:02:28 does anybody have idea what tornado and blizzard might mean? Jul 09 16:02:39 What comment? Jul 09 16:02:52 Nokia told Texrat to suck it up? Jul 09 16:02:55 RST38h, see Texrat's latest blog post. Jul 09 16:02:59 ok Jul 09 16:03:07 Can anyone tell me where is the Hardware ID of the n900? Jul 09 16:03:08 RST38h, Anssi claims they're listening. Jul 09 16:03:10 a 10.x upgrade would be nice, I suppose, but what's the pouint when it's too slow to be usable anyway :D Jul 09 16:03:17 Which is bullshit, frankly. Jul 09 16:03:26 GAN: Of course they are listening. Just not acting. Jul 09 16:03:33 Ah, clever Jul 09 16:03:36 I like that Jul 09 16:03:55 GAN900: latest blog post? about gaming? Jul 09 16:06:39 ell, he told texrat whom he is listening to Jul 09 16:06:44 Anssi is listening to canaries. Jul 09 16:07:05 Texrat is not a canary, he is a rodent, not musical enough =) Jul 09 16:07:10 I personally doubt it's really him Jul 09 16:07:22 (and so are all of us, to Nokia =)) Jul 09 16:07:24 would've thought he'd write a longer response Jul 09 16:07:32 he did Jul 09 16:07:38 in his own blog Jul 09 16:07:53 then why didn't he link to it in his comment? Jul 09 16:07:59 dunno Jul 09 16:08:12 The problem with flash is that adobe are assholes, and upset at being promised h264 decode that the N900 can't deliver :-) Jul 09 16:08:27 or so I gather Jul 09 16:09:27 ah who cares about flash Jul 09 16:09:36 it brings the whole maemo5 down to its knees Jul 09 16:09:42 * DocScrutinizer burrps Jul 09 16:09:52 indeed Jul 09 16:10:01 unless that part is fixed, I see no reason to want the latest flash Jul 09 16:10:01 hasn't Nokia used the lack of a flash update on previous devices as one means of encouragement to upgrade to the new N series? Jul 09 16:10:16 um Jul 09 16:10:33 N900 is the only one with flash afaik? Jul 09 16:10:42 there's flash on android afair Jul 09 16:10:47 the rest have flash lite, which is completely useless Jul 09 16:10:48 on some devices at least Jul 09 16:10:51 oh, I thought the N8xx had flash Jul 09 16:10:59 I was talking about Nokia :) Jul 09 16:11:08 I'm just going by complaints I've heard by friends who had the previous tablets Jul 09 16:11:14 n8xx can play youtube vids Jul 09 16:11:15 oh, sorry :) Jul 09 16:11:24 greenfly: Yeah sure, 9.x there too Jul 09 16:11:27 iirc Jul 09 16:11:30 so if that's flash then Jul 09 16:11:55 RST38h, I think that's the key with 10.1 Jul 09 16:11:57 ugh Jul 09 16:12:00 RST38h, acceleration. . . . Jul 09 16:12:02 if i blew up hinet.net Jul 09 16:12:06 would it just grow back? Jul 09 16:12:17 GAN: Not for us Jul 09 16:12:27 GAN: Swap to mmc --> hang. Jul 09 16:12:33 Mmm Jul 09 16:12:37 Accelerated or not, still hang Jul 09 16:12:44 yo Jul 09 16:13:05 Gan900: well not even normal linux gets accel, so why a more difficult and more undocumented target like N900 would get accel I can't imagine :-) Jul 09 16:13:06 swapper is a bitch Jul 09 16:13:13 GAN: Does FBReader still hang when loading a book for you? Jul 09 16:13:17 Either way, I have a strong desire to beat Anssi about the head and shoulders with a bag of oranges. Jul 09 16:13:37 ShadowJK, because other OMAP3 devices do? Jul 09 16:13:48 RST38h, for a short while. Jul 09 16:13:54 RST38h, I think Jul 09 16:14:01 Hm, do those have full h264 support? Jul 09 16:14:03 does the new youtube interface work on microb if you change the user-agent? Jul 09 16:14:04 RST38h, I'll retest after I finish this one. Jul 09 16:14:14 GAN: Short while (1-2 seconds) should be ok Jul 09 16:14:20 * DocScrutinizer burps 'flaarrrrrrr-'shhh' Jul 09 16:14:39 * GAN900 would just like to have something that didn't suck and wasn't continually disappointing Jul 09 16:14:48 I guess that wouldn't be any fun, though. Jul 09 16:15:09 rst38h: flash does something stupid, along the lines of write(1 byte);fsync() in a loop Jul 09 16:15:10 kerio: m.youtube.com doesnt seem to do any user-agent checking Jul 09 16:15:17 has anyone tried how many phonenumbers can one contact have in N900 before stuff starts to crash? Jul 09 16:15:19 as itll load the mobile site even on desktop browsers Jul 09 16:15:27 ShadowJK: ouch Jul 09 16:15:37 ShadowJK: Oh, that thing from Diablo? Has been fixed Jul 09 16:15:47 ShadowJK: And it is even more stupid than you think ;) Jul 09 16:16:02 RST38h, no I'm seeing it in fremantle too Jul 09 16:16:18 It does not occur in Fremantle, at least for me Jul 09 16:16:39 or atleast the IO pattern looks very similar to "idiot discovered fsync and sprinkled it everywhere"-syndrome Jul 09 16:16:52 nidO: the new mobile site Jul 09 16:17:14 It does for me, I moved swap to uSD, the IO load there stays low, but the IO load on emmc is at 100% Jul 09 16:17:59 ShadowJK: Ah interesting Jul 09 16:18:17 ShadowJK: What the hell does it do to MMC, with the swap moved elsewhere? Jul 09 16:18:37 It stops after a youtube video has buffered fully Jul 09 16:18:41 go figure.. Jul 09 16:18:42 kerio, i dont follow Jul 09 16:18:45 wait Jul 09 16:18:56 maybe it buffers it to .videos??? Jul 09 16:19:12 * cehteh would like to create 1 swapfiles of the same priority .. but the busybox has no priority support for swapon doh :P Jul 09 16:19:16 get default video path from hildon, it points to .videos at the mmc card, etc Jul 09 16:19:23 Probably to $HOME, fsync on vfat is pretty benign Jul 09 16:19:23 err 2 swapfiles Jul 09 16:21:02 anyone knows how much writes the nand allows before it wears out? swap on nand would be even faster Jul 09 16:21:03 SMB138 Jul 09 16:21:20 cehteh: not enough for swap Jul 09 16:21:33 risky business :) Jul 09 16:21:36 cehteh: nand isn't a block device Jul 09 16:21:51 ShadowJK: yes but you should be able to swap to a file on it Jul 09 16:22:01 nope Jul 09 16:22:08 huh? Jul 09 16:22:13 ubifs? Jul 09 16:22:28 cehteh: rated at ~100k/sector at the average Jul 09 16:22:35 2 Jul 09 16:22:37 ops Jul 09 16:22:40 swapping to file: swapon asks the fs for the underlying blocks, and then accesses the underlying block device directly Jul 09 16:22:42 RST38h: buffers to /var/tmp Jul 09 16:22:52 well i better dont try ... if nand is damaged then the device makes a nice paperweight Jul 09 16:22:57 Doc: but /var/tmp is not on mmc, right? Jul 09 16:23:01 there's no block device under ubifs, so swap will not work Jul 09 16:23:19 RST38h: that's the whole point where I get goosepimples Jul 09 16:23:27 ShadowJK: doesnt ubi emulate a block device? Jul 09 16:23:36 And without an FTL that's swap-aware, it'd be as slow or slower than emmc anyway Jul 09 16:23:46 ok Jul 09 16:23:52 i dont even want to try Jul 09 16:24:01 too risky Jul 09 16:24:02 The raw flash speed of nand and emmc is the same Jul 09 16:24:11 or maybe emmc is slightly faster Jul 09 16:24:27 well 2 swaps on emmc and uSD in parallel might be nice Jul 09 16:24:29 it's the overhead Jul 09 16:24:37 hi Jul 09 16:24:57 cehteh: you what, plan to swap out gigs of data? Jul 09 16:25:11 slonopotamus: parallelize io Jul 09 16:25:25 is there any way to disable autoupdate checker, i hate it. it laggs phone when connection is opened Jul 09 16:25:32 nidO: there's a new youtube UI for android and iphone Jul 09 16:25:35 maemo 5 Jul 09 16:25:37 that uses pure html5 apparently Jul 09 16:25:42 anyway as long as swapper daemon runs with highest prio it's not worth thinking about any speedup of swap Jul 09 16:25:45 2x 128MB would be fine .. i never understood why nokia reserved 756 .. prolly only to market it as 1GB device Jul 09 16:25:51 The reason why ubifs on nand is faster is because there's a ftl running on a 600MHz cpu that can afford to manage the flash in a clever way. The emmc and sd cards in general have extremely limited processing power, only enough to manage sequential writes in a vaguely optimized manner Jul 09 16:26:17 cehteh: some not-quite-informed guy made a decision Jul 09 16:26:21 DocScrutinizer: 2 swaps in parallel scale quite well io wise Jul 09 16:26:25 cehteh: actually, I think I found why Jul 09 16:26:26 2xRAMSIZE is usually sufficient Jul 09 16:26:30 cya anyway Jul 09 16:27:15 I've been running with sys.vm.block-dump enabled, awk script to filter and only analyze kswapd writes Jul 09 16:27:22 2xRAMSIZE isnt needed for most computers anymore .. i mean today where you have 4-12G of ram ... ok with 256 MB it might be still a good choice Jul 09 16:27:29 RST38h: should i create 16gb swap on my desktop? :) Jul 09 16:28:00 * cehteh has swap daemons running on desktop machines allocating swapfiles dynamically Jul 09 16:28:17 cehteh" well we are not talking of a desktop machine Jul 09 16:28:33 RAM:8041561F aErrorSecondary DCB "error secondary config block too; something is really fucked up",0 Jul 09 16:28:36 in NOLO Jul 09 16:28:39 slonopotamus: if you want to... Jul 09 16:28:53 slonopotamus: but you probably have enough ram as it is Jul 09 16:28:57 Basically it seems to mostly write sequentially, like a tape... But, when it has reached the end it syarts over from 0. BUT, now the swap area has 4k blocks spread all over, which makes the "second pass" much more fragmented, slowing down Jul 09 16:29:34 ShadowJK: so, is there some magical optimize_swap utility for cleaning it up at runtime? Jul 09 16:29:35 So, what this means is, the bigger swap area, the longer before your N900 starts slowing down, even if swap usage in terms of bytes stays the same Jul 09 16:29:36 * nextime following the 2xRAM rule.... on my desktop i need 32 gigs of swap, LOL Jul 09 16:30:21 RST38h, swapon temp_swa; swapoff main_swap; swapon main_swap: swapoff temp_swap Jul 09 16:30:31 ShadowJK: This nicely explains the 4-days-to-slow-down phenomenon Jul 09 16:31:00 ShadowJK: just swapoff;swapon won't do? Jul 09 16:31:19 if you have enough ram Jul 09 16:31:44 ShadowJK: it doesn't matter Jul 09 16:31:52 ShadowJK: flash has constant access time Jul 09 16:32:05 NO! it does not Jul 09 16:32:09 so flash can be fragmented and it shouldnt't make a difference Jul 09 16:32:17 jacekowski: yet, if you have data stored sequentially, you can read it all in one operation Jul 09 16:32:34 while you have to issue multiple commands if the data is scattered Jul 09 16:32:36 well, what's the block size on flash Jul 09 16:32:40 512b Jul 09 16:32:44 reads are more or less constant access time, writes are not Jul 09 16:32:45 noone knows how to disable autoupdate on n900 Jul 09 16:32:59 jacekowski: unfortunally flash fragmentation still degrades performance .. and more unfortunate you can not defragment it on the lowest level Jul 09 16:33:10 ShadowJK: What about chnging a policy used to allocate swap blocks? Is there something like this? Jul 09 16:33:26 RST38h: no Jul 09 16:33:33 i.e., allocate blocks for each application as a single chunk, for example? Jul 09 16:33:37 RST38h: it just writes next one in a queue Jul 09 16:33:45 the erase block size is most likely 256k. This means a single random 4k write results in a 256k erase-read-modify-write operation Jul 09 16:34:24 RST38h, this is pretty optimal as is, the thing that would be needed is some sort of background gc Jul 09 16:34:39 or background defrag Jul 09 16:35:13 mhm i think i forgot to set the stride size to 256k this time when i made the ext4 Jul 09 16:35:14 and there are no swap defrag tools right now? Jul 09 16:35:24 ShadowJK: only if you access another 256k block after that Jul 09 16:35:41 yes Jul 09 16:35:53 swap defrag... oh my. Jul 09 16:36:14 otherwise controller of MMC will keep the 256K block and not write it back Jul 09 16:36:26 RST38h: on that high level fragmentation and defragmentation doesnt matter, you want something really low level to tell the controler that it should free some contingous blocks .. thats the TRIM support Jul 09 16:36:36 and you dont want to do that too often Jul 09 16:37:06 ShadowJK: there might even be controllers with multiple buffers for multiple blocks Jul 09 16:37:11 RST38h, no, basically everyone is ignoring the problem because on desktop you either have harddrives that are slow no matter what, or SSDs that are fast nomatter what (because they have big friggin arm cpus and large amounts of ram to run a log structured filesystem on top of the flash) Jul 09 16:37:42 cehteh: basically emmc is too stupid to be able to gain much from trim Jul 09 16:37:45 can one change the swap priority dynamically through /proc or /sys? Jul 09 16:37:54 cehteh, no Jul 09 16:37:55 ShadowJK: yes i saied that ... Jul 09 16:38:14 I mean even if emmc had trim, it wouldn't do anything Jul 09 16:38:14 nothing you can do .. any try is futile Jul 09 16:38:32 mmc and SD are way to stupid protocols Jul 09 16:38:56 and you need a decent controler for such things .. nothing to see here, move along Jul 09 16:38:58 resistance is futile (if <0.1Ohm) Jul 09 16:39:00 well, if the protocol would allow direct access, bypassing the ftl Jul 09 16:39:44 And the controller in the case of mmc/sd/etc is inside the card/chip itself :( Jul 09 16:40:30 when i wiped the first device with dd /dev/zero to emmc, the first 10GB or whatever where really fast, i suspect it used blocks which where never used then, and after that i got a sharp drop in write speed until the end Jul 09 16:40:30 ShadowJK: Trouble, trouble... Jul 09 16:41:24 but well after some time it settles at some low speed but doesnt degrade that much anymore Jul 09 16:41:37 cehteh: well it can help with sequential write speed because it can skip the erase step Jul 09 16:41:44 yes Jul 09 16:41:54 But sequential write is darn fast even when it's slow Jul 09 16:41:54 the controler knows which blocks are free Jul 09 16:42:05 hum Jul 09 16:42:10 darn fast is something else :) Jul 09 16:42:18 fast enough for the device Jul 09 16:42:25 I mean that it's measured in megabytes per second Jul 09 16:42:30 but i wont complain when its 10 times faster Jul 09 16:42:34 and not kilobytes per second Jul 09 16:42:37 yeah :) Jul 09 16:49:36 btw, after about a day I'm 47% through my 700meg uSD swap Jul 09 16:49:45 123M swap in use Jul 09 16:54:14 Hi. I'm trying to partition my memory card for my N900. However it does not regonize it after I have partitioned it and set up the (formatted) first partition as FAT LBA. Jul 09 16:56:48 VFAT is the magic word Jul 09 16:56:48 What are you using to partition it? Jul 09 16:59:08 I use cfdisk. Jul 09 16:59:34 Partition type 0B. Jul 09 16:59:58 0C Jul 09 17:00:46 /dev/mmcblk1p1 0+ 14304 14305- 14648304 c W95 FAT32 (LBA) Jul 09 17:01:18 from sfdisk -l Jul 09 17:01:37 Oh sorry. 0C was the type. Jul 09 17:02:52 WFM Jul 09 17:03:18 you should also mkfs Jul 09 17:03:41 mkfs.vfat Jul 09 17:03:45 Done that already. Jul 09 17:03:49 going back to accessing flash and nand Jul 09 17:03:55 so should work Jul 09 17:04:04 My laptop regonizes it. Jul 09 17:04:04 there are some functions reading writing reallocating blocks in nand Jul 09 17:04:07 in nolo Jul 09 17:04:17 so it is possible with nand Jul 09 17:09:20 There was an eaelier query from someone about a way to secure erase a block of flash. That would be a handy use-case. Jul 09 17:09:21 hmmm, does anybody managed to get correct pinout for serial console on n900? Jul 09 17:09:26 did* Jul 09 17:09:42 I've not got round to it. :/ Jul 09 17:09:58 http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-omap@vger.kernel.org/msg14345.html Jul 09 17:10:33 whoever kevin hilman is Jul 09 17:10:39 he has something Jul 09 17:11:43 It's easy if you have the nokia fixture Jul 09 17:13:35 it looks like it's nolo that's talking to twl4030 Jul 09 17:13:39 and doing some usb stuff Jul 09 17:14:13 interesting Jul 09 17:16:17 usb stuff... flashing? :-) Jul 09 17:17:24 that too Jul 09 17:17:43 M:804149D0 aNoUsbHostDetec DCB "No USB host detected",0 ; DATA XREF: main+24Eo Jul 09 17:18:02 and i've noticed it doing quite clever thing to save on space Jul 09 17:18:13 LDR R2, =(aNoUsbHostDetec+3) Jul 09 17:18:26 LDR R2, =aNoUsbHostDetec ; "No USB host detected" Jul 09 17:18:43 so in R2 there will be either 804149D0 or 804149D3 Jul 09 17:20:40 it would be so nice to have nokia flashing/console jig Jul 09 17:21:03 mhm Jul 09 17:23:09 So I just connected my N900 via USB, in storage mode; shouldn't it appear as a /dev/sd* device? lsusb lists it as "Nokia Mobile Phones N900 (Storage Mode)" Jul 09 17:23:12 jacekowski: check which UART is used. And give a program stup to echo 0x5A to that UART Jul 09 17:23:15 * FireFly is probably missing something obvious Jul 09 17:23:45 FireFly: popup on screen Jul 09 17:23:50 FireFly: click mass storage mode Jul 09 17:23:58 On the N900? Yeah, selected that Jul 09 17:24:18 To clarify, my computer is running linux as well Jul 09 17:24:59 DocScrutinizer51: ? Jul 09 17:25:16 DocScrutinizer51: it looks like all uarts are connected somewhere Jul 09 17:25:17 FireFly: seems your distro isn't set up for automounting Jul 09 17:25:25 DocScrutinizer51: at least on circuit diagram Jul 09 17:25:25 Hmm Jul 09 17:25:36 jacekowski: really Jul 09 17:25:38 ? Jul 09 17:25:49 Nope, but I can't even see the device, and I'm pretty sure it works all right with USB sticks Jul 09 17:27:08 jacekowski: to me it looks more like some UARTs are completely omitted in schematics Jul 09 17:28:25 cehteh: huh? Jul 09 17:28:30 the swappiness? Jul 09 17:29:40 what? Jul 09 17:29:55 kerio: man swapon (on a normal computer) Jul 09 17:30:07 ooh, that priority Jul 09 17:30:18 there is a priority for which swap device to choose Jul 09 17:30:20 yes Jul 09 17:30:26 Does a clean N900 contain anything important that I need to save before I swap the /home and MyDocs partitions to have 27G /home? (e.g. are the config files important?) Jul 09 17:30:33 when its same on 2 devices these are effectively raid0'ed Jul 09 17:30:46 In MyDocs, that is Jul 09 17:30:58 FireFly: if you made any settings, photos or whatever yes Jul 09 17:31:08 I didn't Jul 09 17:31:25 except date & clock, but those can be reset Jul 09 17:31:32 if its a brand new device or you want factory settings then not so much, well there is the emmc image which contains few goodies Jul 09 17:31:47 It's only the MyDocs that'll go, though Jul 09 17:31:49 Not the /home Jul 09 17:32:03 Anyway, guess I'll take a look first then Jul 09 17:34:56 DocScrutinizer51: and i found some code to talk to http://datasheet.eeworld.com.cn/part/SMB138B,SUMMIT,307044.html Jul 09 17:35:12 Programmable Switch-mode, USB/AC Input Li+ Battery Charger with TurboCharge? Mode Jul 09 17:35:15 and USB “On- the-Go” Power Jul 09 17:35:50 wtf? what do I learn from that? Jul 09 17:36:03 i don't know Jul 09 17:36:04 sorry can't read you Jul 09 17:36:37 well, i'm just saying that it looks like there might be or there was different version of hardware Jul 09 17:36:50 with that smb138 instead of bq21..... Jul 09 17:37:04 uhu Jul 09 17:37:51 and that's from where? Jul 09 17:38:11 from nolo Jul 09 17:38:15 I install openvpn but I don't know how to setup it Jul 09 17:38:25 and these are not just stubs Jul 09 17:38:46 really strange. How would a binary reveal a webpage on disassembly Jul 09 17:38:59 ehh Jul 09 17:39:02 nah Jul 09 17:39:07 google revealed webpage Jul 09 17:39:21 binary revealed search terms Jul 09 17:40:15 so excuse me when I don't follow blindly Jul 09 17:40:55 you're excused Jul 09 17:45:09 jacekowski: you might consider NOLO been used since 770 probably Jul 09 17:46:42 thing is that it looks like it's n900 specific Jul 09 17:48:20 * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Jul 09 17:54:50 * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Jul 09 17:55:35 http://summel.de/stuff/meego_n900/ <3 do want Jul 09 17:55:49 I got he mmc card working after rebooting N900. Jul 09 18:02:27 summel: start theming then, themes are published Jul 09 18:02:55 Stskeeps: i dont even have got meego running on my device yet :/ Jul 09 18:02:58 is there any way to disable autoupdate checker, i hate it. it laggs phone when connection is opened Jul 09 18:04:48 Stskeeps: but for maemo i would love to have this one :D http://summel.de/stuff/maemo-theme.png Jul 09 18:06:36 Hrm.. I enabled the maemo.org fremantle/tools repo since I want to install nano, but even answering "y" to "Install these packages without verification" yields "E: Some packages could not be authenticated" Jul 09 18:06:45 Which sounds strange to me? :\ Jul 09 18:20:24 Evening everyone :) Jul 09 18:20:43 crashanddie: ? Jul 09 18:21:38 jacekowski: he always comes in and spams those numbers, then leaves Jul 09 18:22:12 http://www.google.com/search?q=ENTERANICK+%5BW2I=000:u:0:000:%5D Jul 09 18:22:15 Hi all Jul 09 18:23:05 Hi jacekowski Jul 09 18:23:06 err Jul 09 18:23:09 Hi jophish Jul 09 18:23:22 hi crashanddie Jul 09 18:23:24 My usb port has decided to part ways with my phone. It seems like a fairly common problem, and Nokia won't repair it under warranty Jul 09 18:23:54 jophish, I've had it repaired now twice under warranty. Jul 09 18:24:04 I was thinking, Could I brick the phone, and send it back. If I brick it severely enough (irreversible flash damage), they would probably send a new unit? Jul 09 18:24:16 D-Iivil, how odd Jul 09 18:24:17 crashanddie: not always Jul 09 18:24:31 jophish, the second round is currently being repaired. Jul 09 18:24:53 D-Iivil, If I get ti fixed, then I'm just going to fill the port with hot glue Jul 09 18:24:59 jacekowski: he's just looking for DCC bots Jul 09 18:25:09 06/10/#maemo.log:05:16 * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Jul 09 18:25:10 06/10/#maemo.log:05:17 < ENTERANICK> ytu Jul 09 18:25:10 06/10/#maemo.log:05:20 < ENTERANICK> hello? Jul 09 18:25:10 06/10/#maemo.log:05:20 < ENTERANICK> 482 users idling huh Jul 09 18:25:10 06/10/#maemo.log:05:20 < ENTERANICK> cya Jul 09 18:25:19 D-Iivil, Are you based in the UK? Jul 09 18:25:23 07/01/#maemo.log:22:08 * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Jul 09 18:25:23 07/01/#maemo.log:22:08 < ENTERANICK> ??? Jul 09 18:25:23 07/01/#maemo.log:22:09 < ENTERANICK> can i speak my language? :) Jul 09 18:25:23 07/01/#maemo.log:22:09 < ENTERANICK> or eng only? Jul 09 18:25:23 07/01/#maemo.log:22:10 -!- ENTERANICK is now known as nitnatsnok Jul 09 18:25:48 jacekowski: !list Jul 09 18:26:04 jophish, noup. Finland. Jul 09 18:26:20 Ok. I'm in the UK, with a US warranty. Jul 09 18:26:24 Problem abound Jul 09 18:26:27 problems* Jul 09 18:26:38 jophish, :/ Jul 09 18:26:39 jophish: if you have a proof of purchase, it should be fine Jul 09 18:26:39 he said quite a lot at 07/01/#maemo.log:22:10 Jul 09 18:26:55 jacekowski: I don't care Jul 09 18:27:12 Yeah, I ahve the proof of purchase too Jul 09 18:27:19 jophish, here in Finland they repair it no matter where you bought it as long as the same model is being sold here also. Jul 09 18:27:35 I went to a nokia shop today too, and they said that it couldn't be repaired under warranty, physical damage Jul 09 18:28:14 jophish: bullshit Jul 09 18:28:24 jophish: tell them that they have to repair it Jul 09 18:28:38 jophish: under sales of goods act 1979] Jul 09 18:28:46 jophish: and warranty Jul 09 18:29:10 and if you paid by card or something Jul 09 18:29:15 jophish, print out the thread @ tmo with you and go there again. Jul 09 18:29:22 then bank statement is enough as proof of purchase Jul 09 18:29:37 yeah. I don't think it was a problem with proof of purchase Jul 09 18:29:38 thanks Jul 09 18:29:43 I will remember that Jul 09 18:29:45 jophish: and there was thread on nokia.com forum Jul 09 18:30:19 where somebody from nokia said that all nokia care centres have been adviced that usb port problem is covered under warranty Jul 09 18:30:35 obviously not :( Jul 09 18:30:43 perhaps I should try a different centre Jul 09 18:30:50 jophish: but ussualy if you mention sales of goods act Jul 09 18:31:06 jophish: people start being more cooperative Jul 09 18:31:13 If I do get them to repair it, will it be done there and then? Jul 09 18:31:15 jacekowski, ok Jul 09 18:33:54 or does it have to be sent off? Jul 09 18:37:54 alterego, yes. Jul 09 18:38:01 Also, is this an up to date form: I downloaded it a while ago for my n810, I can't verify this because of not having a UK based warranty, so nokia won't let me access the relevant portion of the site. Jul 09 18:38:02 https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxJktye-EQ2vOWY1ODBmZTItZjliZC00NGExLWE0ZDgtZDMyOTdiOGIyMDc0&hl=en Jul 09 18:48:01 curiously, my MicroSD is much faster than the internal eMMC ;) Jul 09 18:49:51 luke-jr, what class? Jul 09 18:50:02 * DocScrutinizer shakes head - heard ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] is freenode web interface for IRC Jul 09 18:50:57 whatever Jul 09 18:51:35 crashanddie has strange philosophy for (un-)banning Jul 09 19:06:44 jophish: no idea Jul 09 19:07:07 ~bark Jul 09 19:07:09 * infobot barks, like a rabid dog. Jul 09 19:08:38 GAN900: no cloak? Jul 09 19:08:48 ITS A TRAP Jul 09 19:09:28 ITS *THEM* Jul 09 19:10:13 it's Ari undercover Jul 09 19:10:25 tampabay ? Jul 09 19:10:41 Is Ari on holiday? Jul 09 19:12:35 Ari! what you're doing in Florida? Jul 09 19:14:51 /ns info gan900 Jul 09 19:14:57 X-P Jul 09 19:15:25 GAN900: register!!! Jul 09 19:16:37 blap Jul 09 19:16:48 tral Jul 09 19:18:20 pfrrrt irssi Jul 09 19:19:10 * DocScrutinizer throws bip and ZNC on GAN900 Jul 09 19:19:36 irssi is rulaerzorxcsx of the unriviosnes Jul 09 19:20:31 yeah, via ssh and screen. Feels like mail ofer web frontend Jul 09 19:20:38 over even Jul 09 19:20:55 (sorry for the heat defects) Jul 09 19:32:59 * RST38bis set swappiness to 30 Jul 09 19:33:23 will see if it makes things better Jul 09 19:34:47 fennec seems to run better Jul 09 19:34:56 * wiretapped reopens bug 3659 Jul 09 19:34:57 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3659 Changing icon theme requires reboot to be applied correctly Jul 09 19:35:17 not only icon theme too Jul 09 19:35:44 yeah, i guess that title should be changed or a new bug should be filed Jul 09 19:35:56 holy fuck i have never seen fennec run this well Jul 09 19:49:57 Hi Jul 09 19:50:37 Is there a good navigation system for N900 you would suggest? Jul 09 19:50:54 GAN900: echo 30 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness Jul 09 19:51:14 it is likely to bring happiness back to your life =) Jul 09 19:54:54 RST38bis: hard aim to achieve Jul 09 19:55:22 Cyborg_: heard sygic is ok Jul 09 19:55:28 well try it. then run goddamn fennec. Jul 09 19:55:43 Cyborg_: http://www.christeck.de/wp/products/routino-frontend/ Jul 09 19:55:46 you will see what I mean Jul 09 20:00:57 t Jul 09 20:00:59 oops Jul 09 20:13:46 RST38bis: what does 30 swappiness mean? Jul 09 20:14:37 means stop swapping like crazy Jul 09 20:17:36 sort of :-) Jul 09 20:19:17 GAN900: hi ... do you recall if anything came of the Barcelona weekend documentation activity Jul 09 20:20:09 darn Jul 09 20:20:15 no more speedometer touch on ovi Jul 09 20:20:22 just when i kinda needed it Jul 09 20:20:57 there're a couple of aps in extras / testing that have gps speedos afaik Jul 09 20:21:53 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/speedo/0.1-13/ < is one example Jul 09 20:22:30 oh, great Jul 09 20:22:36 is this normal? when I create a madde project in qt creator it creates the .deb without the resources Jul 09 20:23:01 also... I am not sure where to create my .desktop file and ask qt creator to use it Jul 09 20:24:35 ok... I'm reading this, hope it helps Jul 09 20:24:38 http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_a_Qt_application Jul 09 20:32:57 MohammadAG51: find the thumb errata, there's a patch for it Jul 09 20:33:02 it will be slow but might work Jul 09 20:43:58 [ 0.137] �ber-cool backlight fade-in took 119 ms Jul 09 20:51:01 Is there any free navigation software that works without the internet or must I buy one if I don't want to get lost? :) Jul 09 20:53:37 I've used MaemoMapper more or less successfully in the past Jul 09 20:53:47 you need to download the map while online Jul 09 20:53:52 Cyborg_: ovi maps on anything but the n900 does... Jul 09 20:55:38 I know. I feel scr* by nice people at Nokia. Jul 09 20:58:23 if you've the maps downloaded, ovi maps works offline, more or less Jul 09 21:00:46 Yeah but still no voice. Mor or less pointless for driving. Jul 09 21:00:52 *More Jul 09 21:08:22 jacekowski: huh? �ber-cool backlight fade-in? Jul 09 21:08:37 Cyborg_: enter the nokia server farm, make a copy of the ovi maps servers, run them locally from within your car Jul 09 21:10:11 Cyborg_: ovi maps has a way to download all the maps, aiui. Some app or similar. Jul 09 21:10:45 yeah but the actual navigation needs the net Jul 09 21:10:58 Cyborg_: the odd thing about ovi maps is the still painfully missing turn-by-turn voice navigation Jul 09 21:11:16 I know. Jul 09 21:12:16 especially since you'd think now that Nokia announced they'll sell all future N series with meego, they should know a maemo app for that would be a nice start for the later meego ovi maps Jul 09 21:12:29 It sucks and there is a surprising number of really stupid errors for my country. But there is no free alternative right? Jul 09 21:12:55 Yeah but N900 is stuck with Maemo, right? Jul 09 21:12:56 mappero Jul 09 21:12:59 DocScrutinizer: message from nolo Jul 09 21:13:02 Cyborg_: I think navit works but it's unstable or something. Jul 09 21:13:21 * DocScrutinizer lols @ NOLO Jul 09 21:13:44 * DocScrutinizer wasn't aware NOLO gives *any* messages Jul 09 21:13:50 it does Jul 09 21:13:52 on serial console Jul 09 21:13:54 loads of them Jul 09 21:13:57 "no initfs \o/" Jul 09 21:14:15 that's kernel i think Jul 09 21:14:22 hmm Jul 09 21:14:28 no that was xloader Jul 09 21:14:55 other message it can give Jul 09 21:15:00 Well I am driving in about a week to a foreign land I don't know and I would really like some good Navi. :9 Or I might get lost. Jul 09 21:15:00 M:80414A1F DCB "Waiting for the kernel to magically appear",0xA,0 Jul 09 21:15:06 LOL Jul 09 21:15:12 RAM:80414A65 aYupThereItIs_S DCB "Yup, there it is. Stand by for some Linux pleasure.",0xA,0 Jul 09 21:15:16 i wonder if steve jobs is a contractor Jul 09 21:15:37 and it looks like nolo has interactive console as well Jul 09 21:15:48 because i saw code that looks like a command interpreter Jul 09 21:15:50 how are using the serial console? Jul 09 21:15:54 yeah, with rs232 jig Jul 09 21:16:00 MohammadAG51: static analysis Jul 09 21:16:11 MohammadAG51: i don't have serial jig Jul 09 21:16:12 what type of cable Jul 09 21:16:16 oh Jul 09 21:16:17 nvm Jul 09 21:16:29 jacekowski: analyze which UART NOLO is using for console!! Jul 09 21:16:31 wait, are those real messages? Jul 09 21:16:35 O.o Jul 09 21:16:41 RAM:80415474 aAieeeSomeSerio DCB "Aieee! Some serious inconsistency in block versioning",0 Jul 09 21:17:10 RAM:804155EC aErrorInPrimary DCB "error in primary config block; trying to use spare",0 Jul 09 21:17:17 RAM:8041561F aErrorSecondary DCB "error secondary config block too; something is really fucked up",0 Jul 09 21:17:34 mhm Jul 09 21:17:52 sounds like some of the NAND fs stuff Jul 09 21:18:04 tell me those are real messages Jul 09 21:18:05 nolo says "fucked up"? Jul 09 21:18:25 DocScrutinizer: cal stuff Jul 09 21:18:32 kerio, jacekowski doesn't kid Jul 09 21:19:08 cal aka the most simple NAND fs ever Jul 09 21:19:24 there's some fun quotes in nolo, yeah Jul 09 21:19:35 wtf is nolo Jul 09 21:19:41 bootloader Jul 09 21:19:47 bootloader on nokia 770,n8x0,n900 Jul 09 21:19:51 i see Jul 09 21:19:59 on OM we called that partition ENV, not CAL iirc Jul 09 21:20:26 Nokia LOder Jul 09 21:20:35 well, nolo is different on every phone Jul 09 21:20:35 NOkia LOader Jul 09 21:20:37 even Jul 09 21:20:38 tablet* Jul 09 21:20:59 * kerio reads about it Jul 09 21:21:04 wtf? not open? Jul 09 21:21:04 nolo = embarassing Jul 09 21:21:09 kerio, no Jul 09 21:21:18 you bet it is, like phoenix bios is different on every differend build of laptop Jul 09 21:21:30 DocScrutinizer: happen to know what battery chip sits in a ADP1? Jul 09 21:21:45 burp, what? Jul 09 21:21:57 nexus one / android developer phone 1 Jul 09 21:22:04 er, i mean, G1 Jul 09 21:22:06 what's a ADP1? what's a battery chip? Jul 09 21:22:21 oh nope. Sorry no idea Jul 09 21:22:24 k Jul 09 21:22:34 when you strike a battery really hard with an axe, chips fly off Jul 09 21:22:58 mgedmin, orly? Jul 09 21:22:58 mgedmin: that's called flares I think Jul 09 21:22:59 :p Jul 09 21:23:02 oh this is just great. I've placed a symlink in /usr/bin/ to my python file in /opt... and this doesn't get translated to the package when it's being built. Jul 09 21:23:05 how awesome is that. Jul 09 21:23:38 mgedmin: is there a way to do that by software? Jul 09 21:23:40 Shapeshifter, make it symlink it in debian/rules Jul 09 21:23:44 i need it for my n900-frag project Jul 09 21:23:50 i thought about overheating the battery Jul 09 21:24:01 but apparently the best i can get is a short life Jul 09 21:24:01 :/ Jul 09 21:24:45 MohammadAG51: mhh Jul 09 21:24:57 kerio: definitely no way Jul 09 21:25:27 what about overclocking the cpu and raising the battery voltage at the same time? Jul 09 21:25:44 kerio: if you need a second opinion, then go ask Nokia, they probably will tell you they won't comment as they fear it *might* be possible :-P Jul 09 21:25:45 * RST38bis opens 6 apps at once, smiling satanically Jul 09 21:26:12 RST38bis: throw it now! Jul 09 21:26:44 hurry, you only have a month or so before it explodes Jul 09 21:27:34 kerio: what now? making battery detonate, or simply a boring silent death due to overheating or other unspectacular hw failure? the second one is really easy Jul 09 21:28:36 you can download my kill-it app from OVI store in 3 weeks :-P Jul 09 21:28:39 ehhh Jul 09 21:28:45 i need decent memory map Jul 09 21:28:54 DocScrutinizer: i was going for a detonation Jul 09 21:29:12 but i guess the boring silent death with some cool sound and graphic effects is fine too Jul 09 21:29:12 and omap trm format is unparseable in any usefull way Jul 09 21:30:42 kerio: I might be able to even provide some magic blue smoke Jul 09 21:30:53 awesome Jul 09 21:30:56 wait, how? Jul 09 21:31:21 * DocScrutinizer thinks about smoking up some speakers... Jul 09 21:32:22 or the flash LEDs Jul 09 21:32:44 or the cam focus coil Jul 09 21:33:03 or ALL THREE >:-D Jul 09 21:33:58 the vibrator Jul 09 21:34:08 won't smoke Jul 09 21:34:12 Doc is obviously no Cpt Obvious here Jul 09 21:34:28 for he is forgetting the mighty Vibrator. Jul 09 21:34:51 mental note: add GB RumblePack emulation Jul 09 21:35:21 Howdy all Jul 09 21:36:43 Could somebody with a UK based warranty do me a large favour? Jul 09 21:37:15 http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/repair/repair/warranty?c=1 Jul 09 21:37:30 I am unable to complete this because I have a US based warranty Jul 09 21:37:44 so I can't access the freepost form for sending my phone off. Jul 09 21:37:45 Thanks Jul 09 21:46:25 how do folks SMS from their n8x0? Does it require using bluetooth and a phone? Jul 09 21:46:39 most probably Jul 09 21:46:43 or skype supports sms Jul 09 21:46:49 or they consider twitter sms Jul 09 21:48:50 are there no apps that are aware of all the free gateways? Jul 09 21:49:55 DocScrutinizer51: it looks like it's uart 0 Jul 09 21:50:16 jacekowski: I heard it should be 3? Jul 09 21:50:21 dunno Jul 09 21:50:25 uart1* Jul 09 21:50:27 the 1st one Jul 09 21:50:32 aah Jul 09 21:50:34 ok Jul 09 21:53:41 hmm, i thinking about making something like that in C http://sites.google.com/site/redcodenl/creating-shazam-in-java-1 Jul 09 21:53:44 for N900 Jul 09 21:53:47 just for lulz Jul 09 21:54:08 so i could tell them to gtfo after they send me c&d letter Jul 09 22:32:00 nite all, sweet dreams Jul 09 22:51:48 So, I packaged the game I wrote. Would someone please try it before I announce it on TMO? Should be fine, but maybe something's missing. WFM anyway. The game's called "Maemo Reactor" and it's in extras-devel. It's for 2 players btw. :) Jul 09 22:52:42 I have to leave the house but if you have feedback, you can just /q me or whatever ^^ Jul 09 22:52:50 Shapeshifter, did my tip work? :) Jul 09 22:52:51 thanks. Jul 09 22:53:10 MohammadAG51: mh I just wrote a small script, had to cd into the dir anyway for the relative paths to work. Jul 09 22:53:14 gotta run! Jul 09 22:53:20 cya :) Jul 09 22:55:58 evening chaps Jul 09 22:56:05 Hi Jul 09 22:56:17 any US N900 users around here? Jul 09 22:56:22 Hi, how do I modify the key layout of the N900? (preferably both the hardware keyboard as well as the symbols list, but atm only the former) Jul 09 22:56:31 lardman, european I'm afraid :) Jul 09 22:56:35 What do you recommend by way of pay-as-you-go contract/company? Jul 09 22:56:39 lardman, I'm a US N900 user. Jul 09 22:57:57 lardman, In the US, T-mobile is basically the only choice if you want 3g, isn't it? Jul 09 22:58:18 Ken-Young: no clue, that's why i ask :) Jul 09 22:58:36 lardman, I'm pretty sure T-Mobile is the only choice. Jul 09 22:58:54 I've read that AT&T also do GSM? Jul 09 22:59:19 hey dneary Jul 09 22:59:32 hi there Jul 09 22:59:34 There may be some small regional carrier, but nation-wide only AT&T and T-Mobile are GSM, and AT&T is incompatible with the N900's 3g signals. Jul 09 22:59:58 You could make calls on AT&T, but no 3g data. Jul 09 23:00:06 Ken-Young: ah ok, well that sort of narrows it down then I guess :) Many thanks Jul 09 23:00:07 edge data would work though Jul 09 23:00:09 lardman, just on my way to bed after driving 13 hours across France. Jul 09 23:00:20 dneary: back home? Jul 09 23:00:28 yup Jul 09 23:00:47 You heading back "home" for the Maemo/Meego summit? Jul 09 23:01:12 not sure I can make that unfortunately Jul 09 23:01:54 Should do Jul 09 23:02:07 It's pencilled into the calendar Jul 09 23:02:34 I need to check dates, would be a shame to not make it across Jul 09 23:03:11 * lardman still grumbles as a a GBP conf would surely be cheaper than Euros Jul 09 23:03:21 for everyone Jul 09 23:04:12 Ken-Young: do you happen to know whether the USA and Canada share phone contracts? I understand the dialing codes are the same? Jul 09 23:04:51 Ken-Young: I'm over to the US for a couple of weeks then Canada, so thinking if I could get a sim that would cover both that would be useful Jul 09 23:05:13 I'd go by the assrape principle: If they can fuck you over, they will Jul 09 23:05:48 * SpeedEvil offers the use of his greenhouse for conferences. Jul 09 23:05:52 yeah, just thinking that it must be marginally harder than when I go to France ;) Jul 09 23:06:22 whoever made the keyboard sound effects and touch screen sounds is weird Jul 09 23:06:29 I mean telcos can't tell the difference between cell ids can they!? Jul 09 23:06:36 the touch screen one makes it sound like the device is defective Jul 09 23:06:49 the keyboard one is too long to keep up with fast typing Jul 09 23:06:51 MohammadAG51: I'm getting that with Windows 7, lots of trumpets Jul 09 23:06:56 rofl Jul 09 23:07:19 summit? what summit? Jul 09 23:07:31 Autumn Jul 09 23:07:36 when? Jul 09 23:07:36 not to worry Jul 09 23:08:08 MohammadAG51: the maemo summit thing Jul 09 23:08:16 i know, what date Jul 09 23:09:01 can't remember but I think it was early to mid Sept Jul 09 23:09:17 oh, just in time w/ school, wonderful Jul 09 23:09:18 looked like I wouldn't be able to make it easily Jul 09 23:11:56 MohammadAG51, and you aren't confusing the vibrator as a sound? Jul 09 23:12:15 ShadowJK, nope Jul 09 23:13:07 http://baltimorechronicle.com/2009/images/DUbaby.jpg Jul 09 23:13:34 pupnik_: ew Jul 09 23:13:35 hmm, what is in the file /etc/apt/sources.list of fremantle in scratchbox usually? Jul 09 23:14:01 it's what's for breakfast kerio Jul 09 23:14:48 4 lines dannym Jul 09 23:16:12 MohammadAG51: which ones? :) Jul 09 23:16:50 dannym, sdk ones, they're on http://repository.maemo.org Jul 09 23:16:56 i'm away from an sdk atm Jul 09 23:17:58 MohammadAG51: mine looks like that: http://pastebin.com/VvjNDvB7 Jul 09 23:19:01 MohammadAG51: I got it by first copying the sources.list from the device over and then adapting the ones I had in the Diablo scratchbox and adding them, too. Is there an official way how to do it? Jul 09 23:19:04 7-10 Jul 09 23:19:23 are the default fremantle ones Jul 09 23:19:40 MohammadAG51: ah, thanks Jul 09 23:21:41 MohammadAG51: the reason why I'm messing with it (worked fine for some time) is that I wanted to install fbreader's build dependencies Jul 09 23:23:05 MohammadAG51: got some message that said I should do "apt-get -f install", so I did. And then that happens: http://pastebin.com/d9ngmF4f Jul 09 23:24:43 not sure tbh, reinstall from scratch? :) Jul 09 23:24:59 or apt-get install apt and the other packages in NEW Jul 09 23:25:11 MohammadAG51: yeah, probably the easiest way... will try :) Jul 09 23:25:22 infobot, maemosdk Jul 09 23:25:24 rumour has it, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Jul 09 23:25:31 ~botsnack Jul 09 23:25:31 MohammadAG51: thanks Jul 09 23:25:39 :D Jul 09 23:26:01 infobot, $50 Jul 09 23:26:03 * infobot takes the cash and sucks mohammadag51 off Jul 09 23:26:11 xD @ whoever made that Jul 09 23:32:40 "apt-get install apt" didn't help, so I did "dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/apt*", that helped. Weird... Jul 09 23:38:49 MohammadAG51: thanks :) Jul 09 23:47:17 is it practical to remove pulseaudio from Maemo5? Jul 09 23:47:29 since it is the biggest memory user... Jul 09 23:47:32 doubtful Jul 09 23:49:41 i spent a bit of time investigating that luke-jr - you would lose a lot of features Jul 09 23:50:54 pupnik_: such as? Jul 09 23:51:03 phone Jul 09 23:51:11 :( Jul 09 23:51:54 wait Jul 09 23:51:56 app or hardware? Jul 09 23:52:13 app, doh Jul 09 23:52:22 hmm Jul 09 23:52:26 I could live with that I think Jul 09 23:52:30 I need to replace the app anyway Jul 09 23:52:36 right... how? Jul 09 23:52:44 dunno Jul 09 23:52:52 actually, I just need to replace the telepathy backend Jul 09 23:53:03 and there are other telepathy frontends already Jul 09 23:53:03 yes, but the phone daemon is closed afaik Jul 09 23:53:08 as well as the modem driver Jul 09 23:53:17 MohammadAG51: the telepathy piece? Jul 09 23:53:25 telepathy-ring Jul 09 23:53:28 :/ Jul 09 23:53:37 how am I going to modify it then? Jul 09 23:53:47 isn't there an ofono implementation that's open? Jul 09 23:53:47 you're not :) Jul 09 23:53:55 I need to Jul 09 23:54:01 see MeeGo Jul 09 23:54:04 I want to use DNS queries to dial Jul 09 23:54:26 night chaps Jul 09 23:54:38 that is, query 14025551212.gibberishpassword.dashjr.org, and have my server call me back ;) Jul 09 23:55:13 (DNS always works, even without data service) Jul 09 23:55:17 within a few weeks or so there should be a release of ofono that will work without closed bits on the N900 Jul 09 23:55:50 lol? Jul 09 23:56:02 srsly? Jul 09 23:56:04 i felt the same Jul 09 23:56:05 also want a daemon to log my GPS position via DNS to my server too... Jul 09 23:56:05 xD Jul 09 23:56:08 ShadowJK: ? Jul 09 23:56:24 blobless ofono Jul 09 23:56:33 * MohammadAG51 doubts that Jul 09 23:56:56 that's why my first reaction was 'lol?' Jul 09 23:57:45 i know Jul 09 23:57:46 xD Jul 10 00:00:07 microlith: where do you get this information? Jul 10 00:00:24 blobless ofono is relevant to my interests. Jul 10 00:00:44 that's the impression I get from the forum and ml, maybe it's wrong? Jul 10 00:01:09 I'm wondering what value there is in keeping a closed blob Jul 10 00:01:34 I don't see any value in it, but it's a longstanding, depressing "tradition" :P Jul 10 00:01:37 Keeping what? Jul 10 00:01:42 There are many reasons Jul 10 00:01:53 Unfortunately nokia no longer owns the modem Jul 10 00:01:53 they sold it to japan Jul 10 00:01:59 SpeedEvil: within a few weeks or so there should be a release of ofono that will work without closed bits on the N900 Jul 10 00:02:10 a common one is that it was simply developed without thought that it may be wanted to be open Jul 10 00:02:19 so the contracts were not written to permit it Jul 10 00:02:31 I'm out Jul 10 00:02:37 SpeedEvil: Excuses* Jul 10 00:02:54 It's not actually an excuse - it's a valid point. Jul 10 00:03:07 The question then arises 'why weren't...' Jul 10 00:03:19 which is a much harder question for a supposedly open platform Jul 10 00:03:55 well, it has no impact on -meego- proper, since it's a hardware specific question at that point. Maemo, however... Jul 10 00:05:50 microlith: Maemo has always been a closed platform Jul 10 00:10:55 ofono already works on n900, fwiw Jul 10 00:10:56 :P Jul 10 00:11:24 we made a call (without audio, didnt have proper audio in kernel), so Jul 10 00:12:34 does data work? Jul 10 00:14:41 didn't check Jul 10 00:15:30 is there now a proper solution to make maemo and meego dualboot? Jul 10 00:15:37 Stskeeps: without pulseaudio? :p Jul 10 00:15:59 luke-jr: i said no audio, but to my knowledge pulseaudio plugins exist for this purpose, not so much alsa :P Jul 10 00:16:11 Stskeeps: Kopete? Jul 10 00:21:34 What's the keymap code for & and %? Jul 10 00:33:17 ampersand and percent? Jul 10 00:33:22 or what do you mean. Jul 10 00:42:56 spapeshifter, thanks Jul 10 00:49:16 and btw Jul 10 00:49:43 why does holding shift+fn and click z/x or j/k giving both of them's fn-char Jul 10 00:49:43 ? Jul 10 00:50:00 i mean, in same time - two chars get output Jul 10 01:08:14 anyone around got mupen64 installed on their N900? Jul 10 01:10:10 FIQ: hardware limit IIRC Jul 10 01:10:26 ok Jul 10 01:12:16 in that shift-fn-z also connects shift-fn-y - indirectly through the switches in series Jul 10 01:48:36 hmm, on the n900 can i search my contacts by a number? Jul 10 02:12:23 lbt, a bit. Jul 10 02:12:28 lbt, we had a few new wiki pages Jul 10 02:12:52 good morning Jul 10 02:13:25 Lionbridge is working on some stuff. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 10 02:59:56 2010