**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 12 02:59:57 2010 Jul 12 03:00:15 pupnik_: please take it elsewhere Jul 12 03:00:32 totally topical DocScrutinizer but i'm done Jul 12 03:00:45 k Jul 12 03:01:16 jane harman Jul 12 03:01:39 sibel edmonds Jul 12 03:03:42 dunno jane harman or sibel edmonds. Don't think posting those names without further comment/context makes sense Jul 12 03:04:01 ping some sysop when you chilled down, pupnik_ :-D Jul 12 03:04:07 err chanop Jul 12 03:04:34 http://code.google.com/p/milestone-overclock/wiki/Disassembly Jul 12 03:10:41 I see no reason why that's at all interesting smackpotato Jul 12 03:11:21 :-/ Jul 12 03:11:41 sounded interesting - thanks for preview, SpeedEvil Jul 12 03:13:30 SpeedEvil: you still got that nice weather? here it's >24° even now :-o Jul 12 03:14:24 (which might be related to the strange things happening in this chan for last 45min) Jul 12 03:16:43 I thought it was because the of the dutch loss Jul 12 03:20:43 hmm Jul 12 03:20:56 pupnik_ ist ~pupnik@p54B2B08D.dip.t-dialin.net (as) Jul 12 03:21:21 looks like that shouldn't matter too much Jul 12 03:26:01 open source sortware means freedom from tyranny Jul 12 03:26:27 here we go again Jul 12 03:26:49 that is the most on-topic thing ever said in #maemo Jul 12 03:27:04 banyourslf Jul 12 03:27:10 now that's trolling Jul 12 03:27:26 spees evil maybe its just interesting because of my lack of knowlage Jul 12 03:28:23 so u dont think it can be converted to diablo speed evil Jul 12 03:29:29 smackpotato, if you want to set off his highlights and get his attention, you'll need to use his nickname in full rather than split in two :P Jul 12 03:29:47 ya how do i tab Jul 12 03:30:48 smackpotato, the tab button on your keyboard. Unless your on an n900 Jul 12 03:30:59 or n8x0 Jul 12 03:31:15 smackpotato: depends on client Jul 12 03:31:24 speedevil Jul 12 03:31:58 i set fn yen to tab but its not work here Jul 12 03:32:46 it actually tabs Jul 12 03:32:59 no idea for pidgin. or xchat on N900 I use shift-space Jul 12 03:33:45 by configuring nick-completion in settings/key-shortcuts Jul 12 03:34:03 s/or/on Jul 12 03:34:09 err for Jul 12 03:34:28 thanks doc Jul 12 03:34:35 yw Jul 12 03:46:21 hi Jul 12 03:46:27 lo Jul 12 03:47:22 hey Macer Jul 12 03:47:23 # Appears as ANNA Jul 12 03:47:29 (#G010E010M1) wazzup Jul 12 03:48:05 A Wild Anna Appears Jul 12 03:48:24 annach, your client is messing up your messages, just so you know Jul 12 03:48:37 (#G210E210M1) what? Jul 12 03:48:41 # Appears of OMG_MS_COMIC_CHAT_STILL_EXISTS????????/ Jul 12 03:48:46 (#G1<:E;10M1) I am using MS COmic Chat Jul 12 03:48:49 (#G210E=10M1) it is a wonderful program Jul 12 03:48:51 (#G1<:E@10M1) I love it Jul 12 03:48:52 :\ Jul 12 03:48:55 THIS Jul 12 03:48:58 DELETE IT Jul 12 03:49:06 (#G210E476M1) !! IT RULES Jul 12 03:49:49 start to get used to chanop BS nagging me while I should sleep Jul 12 03:50:13 (#G610E114M1) any other comicchat users here? :) Jul 12 03:50:25 annach: stop that! Jul 12 03:50:27 DocScrutinizer: your spidey sense will wake you Jul 12 03:50:31 (#G=10E210M1) stop what? Jul 12 03:50:37 DocScrutinizer, I am just going to go shoot myself is that okey? Call me back when this is finished Jul 12 03:50:49 (#G=10E210M1) stop what? Jul 12 03:50:59 (#G1<:E;10M1) I am using comicchat, I am new to irc :] Jul 12 03:51:02 annach: you're client annoys every other irc user out there with tons of extra cruft around everything you say Jul 12 03:51:04 (#G1<:E=10M1) I am considering getting a n900 Jul 12 03:51:22 # Appears as ANNA Jul 12 03:51:27 (#G210E@10M1) :[ Jul 12 03:51:30 (#G610E856M1) :( Jul 12 03:52:02 (#G610E856M1) you'll earn a ban on very next line you post with that shit! Jul 12 03:52:04 Oh dear, auto-rejoin Jul 12 03:52:12 (#G=10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:13 (#G>10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:13 (#G010E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:13 (#G210E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:14 (#G610E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:14 (#G=10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:14 (#G>10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:15 (#G010E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:15 (#G210E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:15 (#G610E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:16 (#G=10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:16 (#G>10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:17 (#G010E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:17 (#G210E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:18 lol Jul 12 03:52:28 (#G=10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:28 (#G>10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:29 (#G010E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:29 (#G210E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE Jul 12 03:52:39 lmao Jul 12 03:52:50 Oh dear, I have no clue why that made me laugh Jul 12 03:52:54 pupnik seeks revenge with ms comic chat Jul 12 03:53:01 asj, lol Jul 12 03:53:16 i was not joking Jul 12 03:53:27 [Whois] annach ist ~jsmith@184.104.43.81 (James Smith) Jul 12 03:53:32 pupnik diddn't seem insane these past several months. Jul 12 03:53:32 no pupnik Jul 12 03:53:47 but i'm sorry Jul 12 03:53:49 Indeed Jul 12 03:54:41 free sofware, transparency.. no trojans Jul 12 03:54:47 SpectalNewt, at least you didn't use Comic Chat Jul 12 03:54:59 oh god, I'm sorry, I woke him up again Jul 12 03:55:23 asj: if you disagree, feel free to refute it Jul 12 03:55:53 people comtrolling their devices is a high goal Jul 12 03:56:34 pupnik, yes, that's why 80% have a maemo device Jul 12 03:56:49 wb smackpotato Jul 12 03:56:59 tx Jul 12 03:57:01 err the reason for 80% why they got a... Jul 12 03:57:31 i just don't know how to promote it Jul 12 03:57:52 take a nap, will give you new perspective Jul 12 03:58:17 need more power Jul 12 04:04:07 ~xyawn Jul 12 04:04:08 i guess xyawn is nap Jul 12 04:04:12 ok Jul 12 04:04:17 * DocScrutinizer waves Jul 12 04:04:21 wave Jul 12 04:04:41 SpeedEvil: would you mind a temporary +o? Jul 12 04:04:56 maybe channel need it Jul 12 04:05:49 sure. Jul 12 04:05:57 thanks :-) Jul 12 04:06:05 However, I am going to sleep in 8 minutes +-50 Jul 12 04:06:08 wtf, T-Mobile wants ID and SSN for service? Jul 12 04:06:42 You know the last time I saw that phrase used was in some code that allowed the russian programmer to kill the program, delete the program and the company's database Jul 12 04:06:46 the comment said: Jul 12 04:06:55 //Maybe I be needing this Jul 12 04:07:40 /kick * Jul 12 04:07:44 :-P Jul 12 04:07:57 Termana: what phrase? Jul 12 04:08:15 luke-jr, maybe channel need it Jul 12 04:08:19 i c Jul 12 04:08:27 DocScrutinizer, :P Jul 12 04:08:53 Maemo have any tool to micromanage what apps use web? Jul 12 04:09:26 luke-jr, here in Australia you need a drivers license to sign up for prepaid. Jul 12 04:09:38 Termana: how lame is that? Jul 12 04:09:52 luke-jr, extremely considering its prepaid :\ Jul 12 04:09:59 But anyhow Jul 12 04:10:02 but anyhow, ID + SSN is basically handing over ones Identity Jul 12 04:10:18 * luke-jr doesn't get why prepaid always means more expensive Jul 12 04:10:25 Isn't it illegal in the US to require SSN for ID for companies? Jul 12 04:10:27 if I'm paying up front, I should get a better price if anything Jul 12 04:10:32 I vaguely recalled that Jul 12 04:10:37 SpeedEvil: yeah, but they still do Jul 12 04:10:40 luke-jr, apparently I knew what you were going to say. I said but anyhow and you went and said it Jul 12 04:10:42 :P Jul 12 04:10:59 luke-jr: The idea is that if you buy a contract, you'll keep paying, not stop using it Jul 12 04:11:05 In theory at least Jul 12 04:11:27 SpeedEvil: I'm comparing pre-paid vs month-by-month-contract Jul 12 04:11:30 Hence they want to encourage that Jul 12 04:11:31 yeah Jul 12 04:11:34 inertia Jul 12 04:11:48 they assume you won't get off your fat ass, and cancel it. Jul 12 04:11:58 I really don't care which, but I *do* care about handing them my Identity on a silver platter. Jul 12 04:11:59 And in most cases they're right. Jul 12 04:12:02 I also care about paying too much Jul 12 04:12:05 Oh Jul 12 04:12:07 contract Jul 12 04:12:15 no, that's for credit checks probably Jul 12 04:12:29 I don't really care what they want it for... Jul 12 04:12:31 as you can run up large bulls on calls Jul 12 04:12:39 bills Jul 12 04:12:51 law enforcement Jul 12 04:12:57 they're welcome to put a block on any non-included calls Jul 12 04:12:59 maybe that too Jul 12 04:13:00 homeland security Jul 12 04:13:14 luke-jr: For obvious reasons, they don't want to do that. Jul 12 04:13:15 DocScrutinizer: I'd rather my phone NOT be connected to me Jul 12 04:13:22 I don't really know what's wrong with giving them your identity. Why don't you want them to know who you are? Jul 12 04:13:34 Termana: Identity as in, allowing them to steal it Jul 12 04:13:41 Termana: Ask a few hundred thousand ipad owners. Jul 12 04:14:02 Termana: I also don't want this corrupt State I live in the ability to track my movements Jul 12 04:14:05 DocScrutinizer, yes the US has those nice illegal homeland security checkpoints when you cross state lines Jul 12 04:14:07 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/04/26/1736253/All-GSM-Phones-Open-To-Attack-Tracking?from=rss Jul 12 04:14:10 State? Jul 12 04:14:12 and the N900 just isn't free enough to assure me they can't Jul 12 04:14:15 It's lots worse than that Jul 12 04:14:45 Termana: do they? Jul 12 04:14:47 Termana: never seen those Jul 12 04:15:01 but then, it'd been almost 3 years since I was able to leave this state :( Jul 12 04:15:04 it's* Jul 12 04:15:24 luke-jr, there a guy on youtube that crosses them purposely and refuses to answer their questions. Since its an illegal checkpoint they can't force him to. Jul 12 04:15:31 luke-jr, they ask if your a US citizen. Jul 12 04:15:42 there's a* Jul 12 04:16:14 They are not illegal for non-US citezens IIRC Jul 12 04:16:24 At least some classes of them Jul 12 04:16:37 SpeedEvil: I think that's a trick ;) Jul 12 04:16:47 they can't know if you're a citizen without stopping you illegally :p Jul 12 04:17:20 hmm Jul 12 04:17:22 SpeedEvil, hmm, that might be the case - but the impression I got was it was totally illegal as ruled by the Supreme Courts. But I'm in Australia and don't concern myself too much with the US' laws Jul 12 04:17:26 * luke-jr reconsiders buying data service Jul 12 04:17:40 seeing as T-Mob doesn't seem to have it for PAYG at all Jul 12 04:18:22 Move! Jul 12 04:18:44 I bought 6 months data service from t-mobile for $30 prepaid Jul 12 04:18:56 And that's the only payment on this SIM Jul 12 04:18:57 UK Jul 12 04:19:09 SpeedEvil: how? Jul 12 04:19:30 boltons Jul 12 04:19:33 boltons? Jul 12 04:19:44 err - boosters Jul 12 04:19:50 you're in the US I thought Jul 12 04:21:29 ah - sorry - confusing people again. Jul 12 04:21:55 SpeedEvil, he is in the US Jul 12 04:22:22 And one of the people I'm confusing is me. Jul 12 04:22:26 It's 5AM Jul 12 04:23:10 SpeedEvil, just got up or haven't gone to bed? Jul 12 04:26:47 SpeedEvil: ... Jul 12 04:27:25 I hate timezones. Jul 12 04:27:45 Luckily my clock shows several locations and their times Jul 12 04:27:47 Termana: use Tonal time Jul 12 04:28:04 So I set it to Helsinki, Berlin, Warsaw, and Santa Clara (California) Jul 12 04:28:17 Mostly places that are related to people involved with MeeGo :P Jul 12 04:28:51 Helsinki, Berlin and Warsaw create this little mickey mouse picture on the dots on the map above it :P Jul 12 04:29:17 Termana: be glad you didn't live 1000 years ago Jul 12 04:29:22 or before whenever timezones were invented Jul 12 04:29:28 * slonopotamus tries to wake up Jul 12 04:29:56 * luke-jr calls slonopotamus Jul 12 04:31:18 I am trying to go to sleep Jul 12 04:31:25 but not feeling at all tired Jul 12 04:31:44 So I am currently doing pointless hacking. Jul 12 04:32:24 SpeedEvil: where are you? Jul 12 04:32:55 Scotland Jul 12 04:44:57 Anyone knows if .shlibs is autogenerated? Jul 12 04:49:02 think it is Jul 12 04:49:35 how do I force my package to depend on another package then? Jul 12 04:50:08 forcing is debian/control i believe? shlibs is autogenerated, but i'm not sure Jul 12 04:54:13 ok Jul 12 04:58:51 let us see if autobuilder eats my shlibs first... Jul 12 05:00:07 Woman Imprisoned for Sending Hundreds of Threatening Texts to Herself Jul 12 05:52:17 I would say the title isn't factual. Jul 12 05:55:31 probably along the lines of "it was her phone account and her Ex bf had the phone" Jul 12 06:05:40 OR the texts were purported to come from someone else, and reported to police Jul 12 06:20:21 well Jul 12 06:20:37 i guess for nfs retrans=5 should be good enough Jul 12 06:21:08 Jaffa: mwkn giving a 404 Jul 12 06:23:03 frals: Indeed. Fixing now. Jul 12 06:23:38 frals: try now? Jul 12 06:24:34 works, cheers :) Jul 12 06:35:02 frals: Interesting fmms didn't work and then all of a sudden one day after an update (I think) it just works (tm), wtf? :) Jul 12 06:35:27 * tybollt believe there's hidden magic in fmms =) Jul 12 06:36:58 There is a secret ingredient Jul 12 06:37:24 http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/unicorn-meat.shtml Jul 12 06:40:14 tybollt: probably skit-bakom-spakarna... ;) Jul 12 07:02:14 frals: PEBKAC iow :) Jul 12 07:06:12 tybollt: yeah, most likely ;) Jul 12 07:06:58 Good morning. Jul 12 07:07:24 frals: I'm trying to figure what it was since I really didnt do anything to get it working... but meh :) Jul 12 07:07:50 how did it "not work"? Jul 12 07:08:40 it would never retrieve sms, it'd timeout or something. Now all of a sudden mms start trickling in all by themselves. Jul 12 07:09:10 frals: mind I'm blonde and have blue eyes... ;) Jul 12 07:09:16 what connection mode are you using? Jul 12 07:09:55 connection mode? (ie, probably whatever is default ;) Jul 12 07:12:19 in settings dialog at the bottom there is "connection mode", default is it doesnt connecut by itself usually which is why you are getting time outs Jul 12 07:12:33 and i guess now you are online on the gprs connection so it can download them Jul 12 07:12:36 or something along those lines Jul 12 07:12:40 aaah Jul 12 07:12:48 so that's it then Jul 12 07:13:05 I was online via gprs at some point and so it could go about it itself Jul 12 07:13:11 that'd explain it, thanks Jul 12 07:14:37 if you change to havoc it will do it by magic always.. hopefully ;) Jul 12 07:16:05 I don't like the implications of "havoc" in my phone. Jul 12 07:16:26 Hildon causes quite enough havoc as is. :D Jul 12 07:17:47 frals: why is default not to do anything? Jul 12 07:18:02 frals: is it to preserve cost for people w/out uinlimited data plans or? Jul 12 07:18:37 tybollt: because the other 2 modes arent completly reliable... :D Jul 12 07:19:11 'reliable'? They may screw the dog and eat the baby? Jul 12 07:19:30 yeah, in rare cases Jul 12 07:19:43 they work perfectly for me but since users are stupid :( Jul 12 07:22:17 Please I know I'm stupid - no need to rub it in ;) Jul 12 07:22:26 :D Jul 12 07:22:31 anyway it's all good, thank you. Jul 12 07:22:41 hope you're having fun in Suomi btw Jul 12 07:22:51 hehe Jul 12 07:23:00 tis not bad here Jul 12 07:23:08 cept for all the finns ofc but not much to do about that Jul 12 07:23:14 :-D Jul 12 07:36:51 hello, anybody knows to usage of ContextKit ? Jul 12 07:37:20 I cannot set integer value using context-provide Jul 12 07:57:03 wazd: how would a Mer theming look like for meego? ;) Jul 12 07:57:30 Stskeeps: oh well, pretty much the same I hope :D Jul 12 07:57:48 Stskeeps: though template svgs are not that informative btw :) Jul 12 07:58:08 Stskeeps: like, 10 identical squares, what the hell do they mean :) Jul 12 07:59:46 wazd: hehe Jul 12 07:59:52 you need to combine with base theme probably Jul 12 08:27:36 w00t_: ping Jul 12 08:31:29 what's up? Jul 12 08:33:56 w00t_: the sky Jul 12 08:35:11 anyone know if the downloads.maemo.nokia.com logins are unique? Jul 12 08:35:25 w00t_: I've began to make some progress in the stuff Jul 12 08:35:29 w00t_: can I pm you? Jul 12 08:35:37 psycho_oreos: certainly Jul 12 08:35:38 kerio: that comment was just LOL. Jul 12 08:35:38 er Jul 12 08:35:44 Venemo1: certainly Jul 12 08:35:51 * w00t_ desperately needs caffine Jul 12 08:36:06 *eine Jul 12 08:36:11 * psycho_oreos thought w00t_ had actually explored that far Jul 12 08:36:13 w00t_: Twinnings Earl Grey tea is my favourite source of caffeine Jul 12 08:40:42 Venemo1: earl grey ftfw Jul 12 08:42:46 can someone please do this on their n900? grep login /etc/apt/auth Jul 12 08:43:48 psycho_oreos: it says "login Jul 12 08:44:19 or actually a login account Jul 12 08:44:34 SwedeMike, can you confirm for me if the last two letters of your login ends with eP? (case insensitive) Jul 12 08:44:45 psycho_oreos: no, EP Jul 12 08:44:54 case insensitive :) Jul 12 08:45:24 SwedeMike, looks quite similar like my login I presume :) I was having thoughts the logins and passwords were unique per n900 Jul 12 08:45:39 passwordS? Jul 12 08:45:41 psycho_oreos: mine starts with qa Jul 12 08:45:52 SwedeMike, so does mine Jul 12 08:45:59 there's no password except the one you set Jul 12 08:46:03 for root Jul 12 08:46:08 user can't login Jul 12 08:46:09 kerio: unrelated Jul 12 08:46:17 kerio, apparently these are for downloading from download.maemo.nokia.com Jul 12 08:46:19 kerio: they're talking about apt http passwords Jul 12 08:46:27 ooh Jul 12 08:46:27 i see Jul 12 08:46:35 it says "machine downloads.maemo.nokia.com" so I guess it's for basic access Jul 12 08:46:40 why does it need a password? Jul 12 08:46:51 to restrict access to n900 owners Jul 12 08:46:54 to prevent other unauthorised users from accessing it Jul 12 08:46:57 (presumably) Jul 12 08:47:06 security by obscurity I guess Jul 12 08:47:20 I don't know if its restricted to only n900, its mainly to prevent someone else thinking they can mirror that site without a key Jul 12 08:47:52 or at least access it through their browser or otherwise Jul 12 08:48:41 SwedeMike, thanks for your input :) I believe they're not unique judging by the output comparisons Jul 12 08:49:18 psycho_oreos: no, it seems to be the same for everybody. Jul 12 08:50:05 SwedeMike, hehe I'm no developer neither do I have access to nokia's repo so I can only assume from a user's point of view :) but now I know Jul 12 08:52:03 easy to compare, though: Jul 12 08:52:05 79922cea7cafdd8ac2 auth Jul 12 08:52:11 grmbl Jul 12 08:52:15 df784bbf828b7779922cea7cafdd8ac2 auth Jul 12 08:52:31 just md5sum your /etc/apt/auth, I bet you get the same hash Jul 12 08:53:05 hi Jul 12 08:53:08 df784bbf828b7779922cea7cafdd8ac2 /etc/apt/auth Jul 12 08:53:11 heh same Jul 12 08:53:12 lo hrw Jul 12 08:53:18 how's ubuntu and linaro coming along? Jul 12 08:53:41 planned to hack modest a bit today but looked at source and decided against Jul 12 08:53:47 Stskeeps: slowly ahead Jul 12 08:54:53 * hrw wants 25°C Jul 12 08:55:22 indeed, too darn hot here in .pl Jul 12 08:55:41 days like these i am happy i work from home where business wear isn't needed Jul 12 08:55:41 Corsac, though not a bad idea in a nutshell, but what if some nokia maemo developer decides to paste his md5sum with more than one machine access for example? or different credentials? I know its highly unlikely but :) Jul 12 08:55:42 :P Jul 12 08:56:46 psycho_oreos: then what? Jul 12 08:56:50 Stskeeps: indeed Jul 12 08:57:00 if his auth file is not pristine, then the hash will be different, but that's expected anyway Jul 12 08:57:02 https://images1-focus-opensocial.googleusercontent.com/gadgets/proxy?container=focus&gadget=a&no_expand=1&refresh=31536000&resize_h=120&rewriteMime=image%2F*&url=http%3A%2F%2Flj.karlson.ru%2FUSA%2FRedmond%2Ffirst_aid.jpg Jul 12 08:57:06 Corsac, I dunno, then it'll probably be harder to compare :) Jul 12 08:57:12 oh shit. Jul 12 08:57:14 psycho_oreos: I don't think we really care :) Jul 12 08:57:25 Ok, shorter version: http://lj2.karlson.ru/USA/Redmond/first_aid.jpg (sorry) Jul 12 08:57:30 psycho_oreos: the whole point was just checking with some random users if the content is the same without having to disclose the content Jul 12 08:57:37 which is a perfect use case for a hash :/ Jul 12 08:58:16 yeah but what I was purely trying to compare to see if logins were the same, password would most likely be the same anyway. Mainly from those who aren't part of Nokia maemo development project or has some highly restricted access :) Jul 12 08:58:41 it is unless if the random user happens to be some dev is what I'm pointing merely at Jul 12 08:59:19 from time to time I do see users from nokia.com connecting in :) Jul 12 08:59:54 there's several nokians in here, community members like any other :P Jul 12 09:01:40 * psycho_oreos shrugs, has a belief that those connecting from nokia.com may also be maemo dev teams Jul 12 09:01:50 probably just being paranoid :) Jul 12 09:16:00 hi, Jul 12 09:16:02 does anyone know, how i can set the mtu for wlan0 permanently? Jul 12 09:22:34 oh lol. I shouldn't have used "maemo" in the name of the game I wrote xD Jul 12 09:22:36 how dumb. Jul 12 09:22:42 stupid trademarking business... Jul 12 09:23:43 MaeReactor :P Jul 12 09:23:53 you can always ask for it to be taken down Jul 12 09:23:58 You can always use Maimo Jul 12 09:24:19 lol Jul 12 09:24:22 meamo Jul 12 09:24:25 or MyMo Jul 12 09:24:38 or as someone read it once, my emo Jul 12 09:24:41 Ma & Mo Jul 12 09:24:47 well it's stupid anyway because it's not even maemo-specific. Jul 12 09:25:08 now I actually have to think of a name ... Jul 12 09:25:16 and a logo Jul 12 09:25:49 m@emo Jul 12 09:25:57 m?mo Jul 12 09:26:23 mh Jul 12 09:26:27 PyReactor Jul 12 09:26:38 generic Jul 12 09:26:43 yet simple enough. Jul 12 09:26:54 drop the py Jul 12 09:27:08 users won't care about the language you used Jul 12 09:27:11 no. if I do, it could be anything Jul 12 09:27:17 i already dumped /system/osso/connectivity with gconftool-2, but there is no option to set the mtu. maybe adding ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1492 to a script in /etc/udhcpc helps, but i don't know. Jul 12 09:27:47 "Quick Reaction" Jul 12 09:27:49 ._. Jul 12 09:28:19 hmm Jul 12 09:28:20 just use MaeReactor Jul 12 09:28:52 MohammadAG51: well it runs on any linux. and on any portable linux device it would be well usable. even supports window resizing. so it's really not just for maemo. Jul 12 09:28:52 in two hours of usage, the battery dropped from almost full to slightly less than half Jul 12 09:28:58 is that normal? Jul 12 09:29:28 tobis87, you could probably try putting it in a new file under: /etc/network/if-up.d Jul 12 09:32:08 psycho_oreos: yes, but would this not work only with a static network? i don't know how the n900 connects to the wlan, i haven't seen wpa_supplicant on the device. Jul 12 09:33:04 tobis87, I believe the scripts lying in that directory acts independently from wpa_supplicant Jul 12 09:33:05 how about "Vencidas". It's mexican for "arm wrestling" Jul 12 09:35:32 * psycho_oreos doesn't know what the program is for lol Jul 12 09:36:25 psycho_oreos: so you think a 'post-up ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1492' should do the trick? Jul 12 09:36:51 tobis87, using that location that I said before? probably Jul 12 09:37:04 pretty sure you can check mtu after its up Jul 12 09:38:00 though its pretty redundant, probably a better idea is to place it into pre-up Jul 12 09:42:46 psycho_oreos: so if i add a file in /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/, does it only have to contain #!/bin/sh \ ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1492? Jul 12 09:44:16 tobis87, I suppose, and probably a good idea to name it in the format similar to others Jul 12 09:44:33 Tablet Reactor? Jul 12 09:52:54 So, what shall we do today folks? :) Jul 12 09:53:15 i'm debugging connman Jul 12 09:53:41 How does connman rate against netman? iyo? Jul 12 09:53:59 both are buggy piece of shits Jul 12 09:54:03 :P Jul 12 09:54:20 Heh Jul 12 09:54:44 Seems to me they both do the same job, just wondering if one was technically better than the other. Jul 12 09:54:59 Stskeeps: so what has happened to active dev for the n8x0? Jul 12 09:55:05 And for what reasons. Does connman still use if-up/down? Jul 12 09:55:22 Macer: there's people doing android and i am doing dev for n8x0 this summer Jul 12 09:55:41 ah. i see. mer dev or meego dev? Jul 12 09:55:47 meego for n8x0, mer's dead Jul 12 09:55:53 oh Jul 12 09:56:15 * Stskeeps tries to find a nice soundless media centre Jul 12 09:56:25 does meego even have a ui yet? Jul 12 09:56:31 sure Jul 12 09:56:32 sec Jul 12 09:57:12 hm. i didnt see any screen shots on meego.com or whatever it was Jul 12 09:57:14 this is development code, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5wpg5epMs - ignore the artwork, it's all theme-able Jul 12 09:57:17 What UX are you planning for the N8x0 adaptation? Jul 12 09:57:38 alterego: well, xfce4 initially, and an attempt at seeing how bad handset UX runs on there in software rendering mode Jul 12 09:57:53 (i've had the UI up in the past, before w00t's software rendering patches making some things faster) Jul 12 09:58:25 Hrm, I would have thought, netbook or tablet would be better. No way of using GLES then? Even with the "opened" driver from TI? Jul 12 09:58:47 netbook isn't built for ARM and tablet i don't have access to Jul 12 09:59:11 Stskeeps: what is that running on? Jul 12 09:59:14 really, my battery is almost dead and it's just three hours of usage Jul 12 09:59:17 Macer: aava mobile Jul 12 09:59:42 that is pretty nice Jul 12 09:59:45 awesome ui Jul 12 09:59:47 qt? Jul 12 09:59:52 yeah, + libmeegotouch Jul 12 10:00:46 Hello ! Jul 12 10:00:49 how is n900 dev for it going? Jul 12 10:01:01 how is n900 dev for it going? Jul 12 10:01:04 quite well Jul 12 10:01:04 oops Jul 12 10:01:09 can i install on the n900 now Jul 12 10:01:15 yes, but you have to build an image manually Jul 12 10:01:19 and have it be functional? Jul 12 10:01:21 and wifi is unstable (working on that atm) Jul 12 10:01:24 what doesnt work? Jul 12 10:01:34 someone made a n900 video, go see Jul 12 10:01:35 :P Jul 12 10:01:39 lol Jul 12 10:01:42 sorry Jul 12 10:01:54 i was just curious what hw wasnt working Jul 12 10:01:54 and building an image will probably install conflicting pacakge on your Ubuntu 10.04 Jul 12 10:02:13 it looks very nice tho Jul 12 10:02:18 is mobile data *that* heavy on the battery? Jul 12 10:02:23 the portrait mode is a huge plus ;) Jul 12 10:02:26 my laptop lasts longer Jul 12 10:02:42 if it keeps the debianish env then im sold Jul 12 10:02:47 :) Jul 12 10:02:48 Portrait mode is useless Jul 12 10:02:49 :)* Jul 12 10:02:50 Macer: the UX build for N900 is so far from stable right now, however, it's probably good enough for developing apps. Jul 12 10:02:57 Python will be a plus ! Jul 12 10:03:04 alterego: ah ok Jul 12 10:03:10 Stskeeps: is their a tut on building for qemu N900 ? Jul 12 10:03:23 alterego: it is something to look forward to Jul 12 10:03:24 alterego: not yet. give fabo in #meego-arm a hand if you want to be at the front line Jul 12 10:03:37 py is still not available for meego ... i ll like to test KhtEditor on Meego Netbook ... but without pyqt :( Jul 12 10:05:21 well. i hope it goes well Jul 12 10:05:25 Stskeeps: thanks. Jul 12 10:05:26 it looks amazing Jul 12 10:05:37 pick a better mascot tho Jul 12 10:05:38 lol Jul 12 10:05:59 that thing looks like a pair of wannabe android robots Jul 12 10:06:07 it's for theming anyway Jul 12 10:06:09 Also, on a completely unrelated note, how precise would capacitive be with a metal stylus? Obviously still don't get pressure sensitivity though ... Jul 12 10:06:44 alterego: AIUI, the stylus has to be large - about as large as a finger Jul 12 10:07:14 Capacitive isn't made for being precise though. Jul 12 10:07:17 yep, you cant get a pinpoint stylus for capacitive so precision is always going to be a struggle Jul 12 10:07:42 well... i saw the 45sec N900 meego vid Jul 12 10:07:45 looks good Jul 12 10:07:47 :) Jul 12 10:07:58 cant wait until it is in the beta phases Jul 12 10:08:03 Yeah, that's what I thought. Jul 12 10:08:09 well capacitive can be precise Jul 12 10:08:19 atmel had video about their qtouch stuff Jul 12 10:08:58 and they apparently can get precision same as resistive Jul 12 10:09:30 ( touchpads in laptops are capacitive ) Jul 12 10:09:31 NimbleReactor? Jul 12 10:10:06 Cool Jul 12 10:10:59 Quick'n'Nimble? ._. Jul 12 10:11:07 jacekowski: Although with touchpads you don't click on a specific place. Jul 12 10:11:21 don't you? Jul 12 10:11:40 well, but if you take a look at data from touchpad Jul 12 10:11:41 It is more about relative movement there? Jul 12 10:11:44 no Jul 12 10:11:50 touchpads give you absolute data Jul 12 10:12:00 and drivers translate it into movments Jul 12 10:12:14 Yes, but your mouse doesn't jump to a position. Jul 12 10:12:34 do you have laptop with linux and touchpad/ Jul 12 10:13:38 Quick'n'Nimble doesn't sound too bad for a game, does it? Jul 12 10:13:55 ah, Shapeshifter Jul 12 10:14:05 Shapeshifter: passes _my_ euphemism parser ;) Jul 12 10:14:14 had a marathon gaming session with the girlfriend last night, got a little feedback if you're interested Jul 12 10:14:22 nidO: sure Jul 12 10:14:25 erf Jul 12 10:15:06 from a pure QA point of view, as you've seen the program needs renaming and it really needs a way to exit the game without manually killing the task Jul 12 10:15:16 nidO: press Q Jul 12 10:15:40 also, the desktop launcher for it is currently called "MaemoReactor.png" - could do without having an image extension in the name Jul 12 10:15:40 press R to return to menu. I guess I'll need to make that more clear. And I'll add an about box and quit button to the main menu. Jul 12 10:16:07 nidO: yep, noticed that Jul 12 10:16:10 ah okay didnt know it was a keypress, but yeah on that note some kind of basic instructions/help built into the game might be quite handy Jul 12 10:16:29 ~seen conny Jul 12 10:16:30 conny <~conny@g229036132.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 11d 12h 38m 41s ago, saying: 'TSCHAKeee2: No :)'. Jul 12 10:17:08 also, my girlfriend moaned that the countdown to zero minigame fails you if you press before it reaches zero and the other person wins regardless, maybe that should wait for both players to press then give the win to the person whos closes to 0? Jul 12 10:17:14 o/ Khertan! Jul 12 10:17:21 Khertan: ca f'sait un bail! Jul 12 10:17:57 nidO: mh, the opponent always gets a point if you fail to be right. I could however do it as a penalty (-1 point for you) instead of +1 for the opponent Jul 12 10:18:11 unlike the "press once the icon reaches a certain size" which fails you if you press before it gets to that size which is fine as that's how it's worded, the countdown to zero wording suggests whoever's closest should win Jul 12 10:19:27 nidO: I'll see what I can do about that Jul 12 10:19:38 nidO: do you think "Quick'n'Nimble" would fit the game? :| Jul 12 10:20:02 She also suggested that maybe the number of games you can select should go up in 2's rather than 1's, so you can only play an odd number of games and remove the possibility of drawing Jul 12 10:20:14 yeah that seems like a decent name :p Jul 12 10:20:52 nidO: ah, good idea. Jul 12 10:29:01 Or should it be "Reaction face-off"? Jul 12 10:29:28 quick'n'nimble sounds very single-player jump'n'run / jack-be-nimble Jul 12 10:31:03 something in the title giving it a clue to being a 2-player game might be good yeah Jul 12 10:33:31 there will be a 3- and 4-player option somewhere in the future btw Jul 12 10:35:09 greetings from grill Jul 12 10:35:14 mm, bbq Jul 12 10:36:04 whoever wants me medium, you're late Jul 12 10:39:34 psycho_oreos: thank you for your help: #/bin/sh \ ifconfig | grep -q MTU:1492 || status=$? \ if [ $status -ne 0 ]; then \ ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1492\ fi \ exit 0 <- It does even work if i reconnect to the wlan, any suggestion how i can test only for the wlan0 mtu? Jul 12 10:42:58 tobis87, make sure the correct mode flags are set for that file Jul 12 10:46:26 psycho_oreos: yes i already did this (chmod +x), but is it possible to check only for the wlan0 entry? Jul 12 10:47:16 tobis87, what do you mean check for wlan0 entry? you mean via ifconfig? Jul 12 10:47:55 goodmorning Jul 12 10:48:00 moo Jul 12 10:48:36 psycho_oreos: yes. maybe i'm paranoid. Jul 12 10:49:25 tobis87, well you can just ifconfig wlan0, and to make it even more specific I suppose you can incorporate | grep MTU Jul 12 10:49:27 hi doc im going to ask som more people about the overclocking module i was going on about last night Jul 12 10:50:13 ifconfig wlan0 | grep... Jul 12 10:50:30 ah ok Jul 12 10:52:02 I personally hardly use the lettering when chmodding unless I set the setuid bit on. I mostly set the modes of the files via the octal format, and I can see a file under one of those network scripts directory has modes 755 on it Jul 12 10:53:25 yes, i also do use 644 a lot, but i find it hard to remember the actual meaning, so +x is easier me. Jul 12 10:54:22 octal form has only absolute setting, symbolic chmod allows adding/resetting particular bits Jul 12 10:54:39 http://code.google.com/p/milestone-overclock/wiki/Disassembly Jul 12 10:54:40 chmod g+x blah* Jul 12 10:55:11 g+x looks like it would set the group bit to have execute perms Jul 12 10:55:21 actual meaning is simple once you know rwx Jul 12 10:55:27 =421 Jul 12 10:55:34 morn achipa Jul 12 10:55:58 err, Jul 12 10:56:23 i like 777 its a toy Jul 12 10:56:34 morn, err... 'noon stskeeps :) Jul 12 10:58:22 777 = slut ;) Jul 12 10:58:34 err 0777 (with setuid as 0) ; Jul 12 10:58:36 ;) Jul 12 10:59:44 a=rwx Jul 12 11:01:49 sudo su ; chown root:root executable ; chmod a=rwxs executable ; exit ; ./executable ; echo MAWAHAHAHA Jul 12 11:14:03 Termana: to hot?? Jul 12 11:15:29 scp /dev/urandom root@termana:/dev/mem Jul 12 11:16:29 btw: (symbolic vs numeric perm) from man chmod: >> You can set or clear the bits with symbolic modes like u+s and g-s, and you can set (but not clear) the bits with a numeric mode.<< Jul 12 11:16:52 *but not clear* Jul 12 11:18:05 funny that symbolic is more mighty than octal form of syntax, isn't it? Jul 12 11:19:54 and I never stop to learn: chmod g=u :-) Jul 12 11:21:20 Termana: sudo su works on *your* maemo? Jul 12 11:22:12 chmod 777 is the kinda thing i do on my own personal box when i cant be fucked figureing out what the perm's SHOULD be Jul 12 11:22:16 which is, sadly, most of the time Jul 12 11:22:21 (from qdb.us) Jul 12 11:22:52 ouch Jul 12 11:23:02 777 ftw Jul 12 11:23:13 hope he's doing that on ~/.ssh Jul 12 11:23:46 will earn him the perms he's entitled to Jul 12 11:24:24 ssh complains if you do that, right? Jul 12 11:24:46 ssh will kick your ass on next login when you do that Jul 12 11:25:04 is there a --stfu-you-bitch option? Jul 12 11:25:10 nope Jul 12 11:25:31 .ssh must NOT be world r/w'able Jul 12 11:25:52 what if i really, really, really want it to be world rwable? Jul 12 11:25:53 btw for ssh not even $HOME must be Jul 12 11:26:08 then stfu and forget ssh :-P Jul 12 11:26:25 or create a hardlink? Jul 12 11:26:51 ln .ssh .ssh-fsckdup Jul 12 11:27:03 chmod a+rwx .ssh-f* Jul 12 11:27:13 you can't hardlink directories on linux Jul 12 11:27:20 wut? Jul 12 11:27:21 (and most other os'es) Jul 12 11:27:38 damn, you got me Jul 12 11:28:22 Damnit, can't inherit from two QObjects .. Jul 12 11:28:52 Composition it is .. Jul 12 11:29:58 mgedmin: see how useless that idea of kerio is? :-P I never needed the non-working supposed solution to this made-up problem, in >15y of unix Jul 12 11:30:39 scp /dev/urandom root@termana:/dev/mem - heh :P cat /dev/random > /dev/audio Jul 12 11:30:52 Though that doesn't work on Ubuntu 9.10 for some reason Jul 12 11:31:10 Termana: /dev/urandom Jul 12 11:31:13 doesn't block Jul 12 11:31:13 DocScrutinizer, also, no it doesn't but I'm sure I could make it (sudo su) Jul 12 11:31:17 Termana: happens on my fsckng PA poisoned desktop system on every boot :-P Jul 12 11:31:27 pa? Jul 12 11:31:30 kerio, /dev/urandom doesn't work either Jul 12 11:31:36 kerio, pulseaudio Jul 12 11:31:41 pulseaudio sucks balls Jul 12 11:31:43 DocScrutinizer, :P Jul 12 11:31:44 ALSA FTW Jul 12 11:34:23 what's n900 using by default? pulseaudio? Jul 12 11:34:30 alsa, i think Jul 12 11:34:32 yes >:-( Jul 12 11:34:36 :O Jul 12 11:34:38 really? Jul 12 11:34:50 PA !§"$§$ŋßßŋŋł Jul 12 11:35:08 you might as well install jack then Jul 12 11:35:16 yeah I installed jack Jul 12 11:35:21 didn't get it to run yet Jul 12 11:35:25 who the hell uses an audio rerouting daemon on a mini computer Jul 12 11:35:33 Nokia Jul 12 11:35:38 yeah :/ Jul 12 11:35:39 I think puredata could be v nice on n900 Jul 12 11:35:54 or even chuck Jul 12 11:36:24 kerio: PA with ALSA hw audio sink Jul 12 11:36:27 MUHAHAHA Jul 12 11:36:38 touch screen, accelerometer and proximity sensor interfaces Jul 12 11:36:40 fun stuff Jul 12 11:37:39 mirf: ??? Jul 12 11:39:32 why pulse? :( Jul 12 11:39:49 kerio, there was a presentation about that Jul 12 11:39:52 * DocScrutinizer really wonder WTH causes 30s lags on 1. keystroke in a ssh session to N900 (over WLAN) that's been idle for some hours Jul 12 11:39:53 don't remember where, though Jul 12 11:40:08 another random question - what is involved in converting a makefile from one used on a cross compiler to one thats used on a the maemo sdk Jul 12 11:40:08 pulse lets nokia do things like pause all streams when you get a phone call Jul 12 11:40:21 switch between speakers and bluetooth seamlessly Jul 12 11:40:22 etc. Jul 12 11:40:34 mgedmin: the 8pages paper of Nokia about audio? Jul 12 11:41:01 not sure; I think I'm remembering a pdf from guadec or linuxconf.au ... Jul 12 11:41:03 DocScrutinizer: wlan power management? Jul 12 11:41:11 Corsac: prolly Jul 12 11:41:12 there are just to many options on linux when it comes to audio and a lot of them dont work Jul 12 11:41:32 mgedmin: stop all strams? W*T*F??? Jul 12 11:41:40 streams even Jul 12 11:41:44 anyway, even with moderate load, I often have the phone ringing way after the vibrator is on Jul 12 11:42:09 like, on receiving a sms, the ring goes after the vibrator goes *off* Jul 12 11:42:10 thats a feature corsac Jul 12 11:42:23 bwahaha Jul 12 11:42:36 for when your at the opera Jul 12 11:42:37 btw, nobody answered me before - is three hours of usage, with mobile data on, enough to drain the majority of the battery for you? Jul 12 11:42:49 kerio: with or without IM account connected? Jul 12 11:43:04 kerio: depends, but yes, possible Jul 12 11:43:12 i was in a zone with bad coverage Jul 12 11:43:24 Corsac: IM connected, xchat open Jul 12 11:43:30 kerio: then for sure Jul 12 11:43:35 :o Jul 12 11:43:50 kerio: at least on 3G Jul 12 11:43:56 yeah, 3g Jul 12 11:44:02 hsdpa Jul 12 11:44:07 kerio: use 2G Jul 12 11:44:12 can't Jul 12 11:44:17 :-( Jul 12 11:44:28 my operator uses 3g only Jul 12 11:44:29 kerio: that's why Jul 12 11:44:36 IM is a battery hog Jul 12 11:44:44 3G is Jul 12 11:44:46 2g is roaming Jul 12 11:44:48 basically it won't let the device sleep Jul 12 11:44:52 and i'd have to pay for data Jul 12 11:44:56 DocScrutinizer: even on wifi Jul 12 11:44:59 every single byte causes 30s of TX activity Jul 12 11:45:16 DocScrutinizer: who cares, there's more than a single byte in 30 seconds Jul 12 11:45:21 xchat was open Jul 12 11:45:34 DocScrutinizer: have you tried tcpdump? Jul 12 11:45:49 not on N900, but on OM Jul 12 11:45:50 kerio, the less signal you have, the more power the 3G modem needs to draw Jul 12 11:45:53 so it's the combination IM, 3g, bad coverage? Jul 12 11:45:56 :( Jul 12 11:46:05 kerio: exactly Jul 12 11:46:06 and poor battery too Jul 12 11:46:13 ok, plan B Jul 12 11:46:20 i need a way to shield my laptop from the sand Jul 12 11:46:26 ideas? Jul 12 11:46:31 thats a terrible idea Jul 12 11:46:33 :P Jul 12 11:46:34 * mgedmin suspects xchat is considerably worse than IM for battery life Jul 12 11:46:36 on good coverage, GPRS, and IRC with low traffic I got >16h on a Openmoko FR Jul 12 11:46:50 move to the rain forest Jul 12 11:46:54 mgedmin: depends Jul 12 11:47:03 although I tend to lump IRC with high traffic and IM with low traffic Jul 12 11:47:14 it is not that bad Jul 12 11:47:23 mgedmin: never tried xchat, but trying with/without IM and comparing with battery eye is pretty much self-explanatory Jul 12 11:47:28 still has a few timers of course, but those tick slowly now Jul 12 11:47:29 kerio Jul 12 11:47:38 mgedmin: even completely idle IM Jul 12 11:47:40 Corsac, can you quantify that somehow? Jul 12 11:47:49 mgedmin: on those tests (above^^) I sent device to suspend after each packet immediately, and I've observed minutes of sleep periods Jul 12 11:47:54 on IRC Jul 12 11:48:02 mgedmin: I guess the keepalive stuff between the client and the server is the problem Jul 12 11:48:02 (xchat) Jul 12 11:48:04 my n900 died yesterday in less than 12 hours without my using it... Jul 12 11:48:14 smackpotato: what? Jul 12 11:48:21 mgedmin: I could make screenshots Jul 12 11:48:24 of battery-eye Jul 12 11:48:32 fsck battery-eye Jul 12 11:48:34 or extract some logs Jul 12 11:48:39 Corsac, just a rough estimate (e.g. 3 hours longer without IM?) Jul 12 11:48:39 from its data store Jul 12 11:48:48 move to the rainforest to protect your notebook from sand Jul 12 11:48:53 and "idle" means exactly nuttin on IM/IRC Jul 12 11:49:04 DocScrutinizer: I mean, without any conversation Jul 12 11:49:16 as there are pings, joins/quits and whatnot Jul 12 11:49:18 mgedmin: I would have to redo the tests Jul 12 11:49:27 you don't remember? Jul 12 11:49:31 DocScrutinizer: freerunner or n900? Jul 12 11:49:43 kerio: UH? Jul 12 11:49:45 nevermid i didnt get sleep Jul 12 11:49:56 DocScrutinizer: what do you like best? Jul 12 11:50:05 N900 for sure Jul 12 11:50:29 wait, no 3g on the freerunner? Jul 12 11:50:30 wtf Jul 12 11:50:32 mgedmin: basically with IM on, on 3g, it barely lasted 12h, currently I don't use IM and it's at 50% after 12h but I'm not always 3g-connected so the comparison doesn't stand Jul 12 11:50:34 3G, decent gfx-engine, decent hw-kbd... Jul 12 11:50:51 Corsac, thanks Jul 12 11:51:44 hey, all my desktop widgets disappeared Jul 12 11:51:48 did something crash? Jul 12 11:52:24 correction: all 3rd-party desktop widgets are gone Jul 12 11:53:09 mgedmin, sounds like hildon-home crahsed and that makes all python widgets to disappear. Jul 12 11:53:33 mgedmin, you need to manually re-add them, but good thing is that they will most likely be placed to the position they were before disappearing. Jul 12 11:53:51 kerio: FR has a Samsung 2442 CPU/SoC which doesn't know the smart zeroclock functions of OMAP. So only chance is to send device to suspend, to save some power :-/ Jul 12 11:54:27 i'm just wondering if it would be possible to block all wakeups except required ones Jul 12 11:54:56 jacekowski: sure, if you know which are the "required ones" :-P Jul 12 11:55:08 external ones + rtc Jul 12 11:55:10 jacekowski: that's the whole trick Jul 12 11:55:25 so it would keep irc connection going Jul 12 11:55:34 no it wouldn't Jul 12 11:55:56 why it wouldn't? Jul 12 11:56:15 client need to actively keep-alive ping server Jul 12 11:56:16 * mgedmin doesnt' remember what widgets he had -- but maybe that's ok? Jul 12 11:56:26 not really Jul 12 11:56:29 DocScrutinizer: i use a bouncer Jul 12 11:56:29 :) Jul 12 11:56:30 server pings client Jul 12 11:56:37 every 60 s Jul 12 11:56:47 jacekowski: yes, but that *may* drop Jul 12 11:56:47 mgedmin, just start adding the widgets back to desktop from desktop editing mode, maybe you'll recall them when you see them on the list. Jul 12 11:56:49 i think on freenode it's 120 Jul 12 11:56:56 so server pings Jul 12 11:57:00 phone wake ups Jul 12 11:57:06 sends a pong Jul 12 11:57:07 or I could see this as an opportunity to declutter my desktop and perhaps improve battery life Jul 12 11:57:10 and goes back to sleep Jul 12 11:57:43 and some way of handling runaway processes Jul 12 11:57:45 jacekowski: you'll drop out of irc more often than you think Jul 12 11:58:03 so if something uses too much cpu it would get SIGSTOPped during sleep Jul 12 11:58:11 SunOS alicia 5.11 snv_134 i86pc i386 i86pc Jul 12 11:58:15 neet Jul 12 11:58:20 so runaway process wouldn't drain a battery Jul 12 11:58:32 finally updated Jul 12 11:58:39 jacekowski: mhm, like watching videos? Jul 12 11:58:47 DocScrutinizer: during sleep Jul 12 11:59:02 Is it possible to get the N900's usb0 iface to always use the same mac? Jul 12 11:59:09 alterego: yep Jul 12 11:59:11 Presumably somewhere in udev or something? Jul 12 11:59:14 nope Jul 12 11:59:18 jacekowski: how should device know you're asleep ? ;-P Jul 12 11:59:23 udev has fuck all to do with it Jul 12 11:59:30 DocScrutinizer: not when i'm sleepin Jul 12 11:59:30 jacekowski: wish to enlighten me? :) Jul 12 11:59:34 when phone is sleeping Jul 12 11:59:38 alterego: RTFM Jul 12 11:59:40 alterego: i'll bring up the wiki article Jul 12 11:59:44 alterego: it's in Documentation/ Jul 12 11:59:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking Jul 12 11:59:49 there Jul 12 11:59:59 Cheers Jul 12 12:00:03 DocScrutinizer: Sleep pattern analyzer app ;) Jul 12 12:00:16 wait, not that Jul 12 12:00:16 kerio: not there Jul 12 12:00:20 It just works really nicely with ubuntu/gnome/network-manager when the MAC is known :) Jul 12 12:00:21 X-Fade: yep :-D Jul 12 12:00:23 alterego: that's not going to help Jul 12 12:00:34 there was another article Jul 12 12:00:53 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Jul 12 12:00:54 here Jul 12 12:00:56 irssi, knew it Jul 12 12:00:58 Also no accelerometer changes for a longer period of time gives a clue. ;) Jul 12 12:01:32 Ah, okay. So I have to change /etc/network/interfaces and specify the hardware address myself to keep it consistent across reboots? Jul 12 12:01:33 echo options g_nokia host_addr=00:11:22:33:44:55 > /etc/modprobe.d/g_nokia Jul 12 12:01:43 you should use 02 though Jul 12 12:01:47 for "manually administered mac address" Jul 12 12:01:48 since it's fake Jul 12 12:01:56 Yeah, Jul 12 12:01:58 Thanks alot. Jul 12 12:02:10 same on FR :-P Jul 12 12:02:20 I've got a MAC generator I use for VMs, so that's fine :) Jul 12 12:02:34 hmmm Jul 12 12:02:38 i don't think it's g_nokia Jul 12 12:02:41 more like g_ether Jul 12 12:02:45 works here Jul 12 12:02:50 jacekowski: :-P Jul 12 12:02:51 :) Jul 12 12:02:53 no osx info on usb networking? Jul 12 12:03:06 Macer: as usual, it "just works" Jul 12 12:03:06 :) Jul 12 12:03:12 hah! Jul 12 12:03:14 lol Jul 12 12:03:18 set the MAC to a fixed address or it'll create a new interface every time you plug it in Jul 12 12:03:31 kerio: BIG FUN Jul 12 12:03:35 kerio: with ssh Jul 12 12:03:40 kerio: and scripts Jul 12 12:03:41 why? Jul 12 12:03:52 i just wifi tether it Jul 12 12:04:04 tapping mobilehotspot is easier, yeah Jul 12 12:04:05 :) Jul 12 12:04:09 kerio: it's not everytime it's plugged in, it's every reboot. Jul 12 12:04:28 g1 actually did usb tethering quite effortlessly Jul 12 12:04:28 Actually it might be ifup/down cycle .. Jul 12 12:04:39 I can't remember if I actually tried that .. Jul 12 12:04:39 alterego: see Jul 12 12:04:58 did i mention how much i hate wireless? Jul 12 12:05:07 alterego: every modprobe ? Jul 12 12:05:07 wireless is awesome! Jul 12 12:05:54 DocScrutinizer: yeah, that might be the case. Jul 12 12:06:08 kerio: it's awesomly slow Jul 12 12:06:21 the n900 needed gigE Jul 12 12:06:40 well, usb networking can do 300Mbits Jul 12 12:06:43 probably Jul 12 12:06:50 it defaults to 10mbps here Jul 12 12:06:51 :( Jul 12 12:07:04 DocScrutinizer, This (what I'm about to say) sounds like a security flaw to me: Jul 12 12:07:17 well negotiates at 425Mbits Jul 12 12:07:37 on OM iirc we had all three variants: iface USB0 nad ssh-knownhosts changing each time you plug another device, new interface for every device, and even new MAC on every plugin Jul 12 12:07:39 Termana: usb networking is unsupported Jul 12 12:08:17 also, i think you need to enable it manually Jul 12 12:09:11 DocScrutinizer, say I have an executable and i set the setuid bit with chmod and made it owned by root:root. Then I transfer that to another system with the permissions retained. Isn't that going to allow me to make my executable root on an unknown system? Or do filesystem drop the setuid bit when transfering? (unless your root on the new system) Jul 12 12:09:29 Termana: can't drop something as root unless you're root Jul 12 12:09:29 :) Jul 12 12:09:46 well, except with nfs Jul 12 12:09:46 ~ping MohammadAG51 Jul 12 12:09:47 pong MohammadAG51 Jul 12 12:09:56 Termana: the foreign system should drop user/owner Jul 12 12:09:57 but that implies all the machines are secured Jul 12 12:09:58 Termana: well, you would have to be a root to create that file on different fs as root Jul 12 12:10:17 Termana: and any modification to file drop setuid bit automaticaly anyways Jul 12 12:10:31 kerio, so the new system won't let me transfer it, but what if I just execute it on my flash drive formatted as ext3 Jul 12 12:10:46 Termana: well, only root can mount Jul 12 12:10:50 mount is (8) Jul 12 12:10:54 Termana: it's the sysadmin's fault for not specifying nosuid in the automounter Jul 12 12:11:02 actually Jul 12 12:11:03 noexec Jul 12 12:11:16 noexec uid=nobody gid=nobody Jul 12 12:11:35 kerio just passed LP1 Jul 12 12:11:39 kerio, ah right, so having automount add on the noexec option would stop that? (flash drive scenario) Jul 12 12:11:41 :-) Jul 12 12:11:42 what? Jul 12 12:12:41 i read a nice series of articles on "hardening linux" on an italian linux magazine Jul 12 12:12:46 (printed on paper! :o ) Jul 12 12:13:33 Termana: a sane automounter is configured so it won't let you execute files from the mounted media, and system won't let you copy a root-owned file to an executable place Jul 12 12:14:02 monolithic kernel, drop capabilities asap, anywhere the user can write mounted as noexec, no useless things *anywhere*, and grsecurity Jul 12 12:14:15 (it was old) Jul 12 12:14:40 wtf grsecurity? Jul 12 12:15:02 DocScrutinizer, kernel patch - web servers use it sometimes I believe Jul 12 12:15:23 hmm Jul 12 12:15:25 Someone did it on an n900 though Jul 12 12:15:54 kerio: http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-custom-kernel.html Jul 12 12:16:23 ooh how do i change my hostname? Jul 12 12:16:44 echo kdjxukjnqjkh >/etc/hostname ? Jul 12 12:17:05 and /etc/hosts Jul 12 12:17:10 Corsac, thats the one. I believe its done by Tony Lindgren whos apart of linux-omap AFAIK Jul 12 12:17:26 nop Jul 12 12:17:30 Corsac: it's not really needed on n900 Jul 12 12:17:34 this one is made by Arnaud Ébalard Jul 12 12:18:27 eh. Oh well, I thought Tony did most of the pages on there. Jul 12 12:18:39 is there an alternative to zoutube? Jul 12 12:18:40 * DocScrutinizer wonders if Intel or wetware processor will fry first..... WAAAAAH Jul 12 12:19:21 zoutube is not really useable. Jul 12 12:19:36 Termana: the whole natisbad.org stuff is Arnaud's Jul 12 12:20:32 those stupid iPhone-users always laugh at me, when I can't watch a video, but they can. Jul 12 12:21:06 Treibholz: tell them you have flash? :/ Jul 12 12:21:23 Corsac: I don't want flash! Jul 12 12:21:34 Corsac, that won't work. They are under the mind control of Jobs. Jul 12 12:21:34 flash is only usefull for ads Jul 12 12:22:01 and the n900 is to slow to play youtube-videos with the flash-player. Jul 12 12:22:16 Treibholz, HTML5 youtube videos? Jul 12 12:22:19 * DocScrutinizer wanders off to change wetware cooling system to liquid protiumdioxide Jul 12 12:22:42 I think youtube works ok...it's just a bit choppy when it's buffering Jul 12 12:22:43 Termana: microb has a h264-codec? Jul 12 12:23:03 youtube flash works fine for me Jul 12 12:23:24 Treibholz, I don't know. Try it. And then try Firefox Mobile Jul 12 12:23:54 anyway, a useable youtube-application would really be nice. Jul 12 12:24:39 Termana: and not all videos work with HTML5. Jul 12 12:25:23 the new youtube mobile looks awesome Jul 12 12:25:29 generally: a youtube-app for netbooks would be cool, too. Jul 12 12:26:04 flash is so slow on linux, I can't watch the videos in the browser on my netbook. Jul 12 12:26:15 what I want to say is: Flash is bullshit. Jul 12 12:26:30 and nobody needs it. Jul 12 12:27:17 hahaha Jul 12 12:27:20 go buy an ipad then Jul 12 12:27:41 kerio: lacks a keyboard. :-) Jul 12 12:27:55 doesnt youtube stream mo4 as well? Jul 12 12:28:08 i figure there is some toutube app out there Jul 12 12:28:14 mp4 Jul 12 12:28:43 Macer: I can watch the videos with mplayer quite well, but c&p of the URL in the terminal is not really comfortable, Jul 12 12:28:59 i mean another app Jul 12 12:29:05 like a front end for it Jul 12 12:29:17 there has to be one out there Jul 12 12:29:18 I find the "XL" youtube interface to be better on the n900 than the "mobile" one Jul 12 12:32:11 so, I'm thinking about buying a n900 but wanted to ask if it has a full featured calendar app (i need one for work). There don't seem to be any good choices for the n810 that will also use syncevolution Jul 12 12:32:25 calendar is ermm... interesting Jul 12 12:32:41 the calendar has a lot of potential1 Jul 12 12:32:44 Kegetys: does it work nicely? Jul 12 12:32:48 nidO: do you find it weird, or did you even notice that the gems are all facing one way? I though maybe I should rotate them a random amount (like the smilies)... Jul 12 12:33:10 kerio: works for me, although I dont really need youtube that often on it so I haven't used it that much Jul 12 12:33:48 heh, i guess i'm wondering if it's worth it to plop down $400/USD if the calendar is "interesting" lol Jul 12 12:33:50 Shapeshifter: wasnt really a problem for me, you could randomise their orientation but that basically only affects the triangle diamond thing anyway doesnt it, the others are symmetyrical? Jul 12 12:34:06 nidO: indeed Jul 12 12:34:30 I've got a htc evo for testing right now... but I hate all of the "google-isms" required Jul 12 12:34:51 nidO: I added a new game and now I also have 7 fruit symbols. I though may I'll randomize the appearance of either gems or fruits for the games that use images. Jul 12 12:34:55 for added diversity Jul 12 12:35:00 evilbit: if you're really after a full featured calendar, I don't think it'll fit Jul 12 12:35:07 but fruit would definitely need rotating else they would all look kinda wrong Jul 12 12:35:14 Corsac: ok, thanks. :-) Jul 12 12:42:25 X-Fade: ping Jul 12 12:44:03 achipa: pong Jul 12 12:44:23 gah... just sent a mail... Jul 12 12:44:47 X-Fade: anyway, it seems mail notifications for super-tester promotions are not being sent Jul 12 12:44:48 hehe Jul 12 12:44:52 hehe Jul 12 12:45:32 X-Fade: and that's prolly also the reason people are not promoting.. they are not aware they can... Jul 12 12:46:11 achipa: Ah, I see the issue in the code. Jul 12 12:46:38 gougin Jul 12 12:53:05 do you guys use catorise or something like that? Jul 12 12:53:06 does it work? Jul 12 12:53:38 Yes, and does for me. Jul 12 12:53:39 I do, it works for most cases, at least it keeps things tidy in whatever way it suits catorise Jul 12 12:57:56 was there a maemo4 app which would display photos from the network using upnp or something like that? Jul 12 12:58:04 (to do some kind of digiframe stuff) Jul 12 12:58:19 kerio: AppMeFo Jul 12 12:58:24 or maybe even an integrated app which would do rss reader, weather station, etc. Jul 12 12:59:01 kerio: WFM like a charm. Catorize is broken by design Jul 12 12:59:36 DocScrutinizer, I'd be happy to have an app that would make possible to search apps using hw keyboard just like we can do with contacts. I mean straight from the desktop. Jul 12 12:59:52 Would make launching apps very intuitive and fast. Jul 12 13:00:17 D-Iivil_Work: uhmm, yes. Dunno, doesn't PR1.2 have that? Jul 12 13:00:26 DocScrutinizer, no it does not. Jul 12 13:00:40 DocScrutinizer, allthough some websites did claim it does. Jul 12 13:00:48 DocScrutinizer: wfm? Jul 12 13:00:53 D-Iivil_Work: I mean, they even fscked up HAM to implement that general UI design Jul 12 13:01:02 ~wtf wfm Jul 12 13:01:03 WFM: works for me Jul 12 13:01:06 i see Jul 12 13:02:32 DocScrutinizer, you meant ApMeFo? Jul 12 13:03:06 psycho_oreos: probably yes Jul 12 13:03:21 http://maemo.org/packages/view/apmefo/ Jul 12 13:03:56 D-Iivil_Work: confirmed, doesn't work. I as well seem to have read smewhere it should, but for me it doesn't Jul 12 13:05:32 only doenside of ApMeFo: if you rearrange icons in main view, then all the apmefo drawers are disabled. Needed to re-enable them in apmefo config UI Jul 12 13:07:41 now this is weird: Jul 12 13:07:53 got a CA-101 with my N82, and another CA-101 with my n900 Jul 12 13:08:13 using the one that came with the N900, it doesnt charge the N900 using any usb port on my phone Jul 12 13:08:25 but the one that came with the N82 charges the N900 fine in the exact same ports Jul 12 13:14:05 blaerrgh, apmefo isn't a product in bugtracker, so no ticket I could possibly open :-/ Jul 12 13:14:12 auenf: how many usb ports do you have on your phone? Jul 12 13:15:00 auenf: that sounds outright weird Jul 12 13:15:15 timeless_mbp: would a powered usb-hub "work" on the N900? Jul 12 13:16:16 tybollt: people have indicated they'd done it Jul 12 13:16:32 for the n800 (?) we used hacked usb-hubs iirc Jul 12 13:16:40 auenf: charging depends on D+/- datalines of CA-101 either enable ENUM data transfer to host, or signal shortcircuit in dedicated charger. If a CA-101 doesn't work for charging where another one does, I'd bet it's a broken cable Jul 12 13:16:44 powered but w/ some change to how things were wired Jul 12 13:17:52 tybollt: depends on your definition of "works" Jul 12 13:18:10 DocScrutinizer, cable had never been used before ;) Jul 12 13:18:15 tybollt: works for what? Jul 12 13:18:40 the ca-101 that came with the n82 has been used many of times Jul 12 13:19:20 tybollt: for charging N900 on a downstream port of powered hub -> won't work without hacks (see above line to auenf ) Jul 12 13:19:47 BME ones or hardware? Jul 12 13:19:57 ah see now Jul 12 13:20:02 auenf: as a powered hub doesn't ENUM nor has it D+/- short Jul 12 13:20:15 ooops Jul 12 13:20:19 tybollt: ^^^ Jul 12 13:20:24 err, im pluggin directly into the front and/or rear ports :P Jul 12 13:20:25 Oui oui Jul 12 13:20:40 rear ports... o_O Jul 12 13:21:15 when the front port said not enough power, i pulled something else out of the back to try Jul 12 13:21:35 auenf: CA-101 is a standard USB cable with no special gimmicks Jul 12 13:21:46 when that didnt work, i tried my powered hub (monitor) Jul 12 13:21:56 then i gave up and tried to find my older cable ;) Jul 12 13:22:26 yup, it *should* be just a simple usb cable Jul 12 13:22:28 broken cable Jul 12 13:22:33 obviously this other one is DOA Jul 12 13:22:44 tybollt: for hostmode and N900 linked to upstream port of powered hub, things are a bit different Jul 12 13:23:05 hmhm, seems that displaying remote pictures from n810/n900 isn't something people are interested in Jul 12 13:23:36 hey all Jul 12 13:23:43 hey Jul 12 13:23:45 Corsac, n810 filemanager over bluetooth? Jul 12 13:23:57 any idea what is an EBS? Jul 12 13:24:03 I tried Mupen64 w/ PS3 controller and TV-Out yesterday Jul 12 13:24:06 was awesome :D Jul 12 13:24:07 EXPORT cal_nand_scan_ebs Jul 12 13:24:08 jacekowski: a TLA Jul 12 13:24:09 in libcal Jul 12 13:24:43 auenf: I'd like something more automatic Jul 12 13:25:07 auenf: as my n810 is currently idle, I'd like to use it as a digiframe/rss-reader/weather-station/... Jul 12 13:25:24 to have it sitting on a desk, plugged in, and display its informations in cycle Jul 12 13:25:30 erroneaous block search Jul 12 13:26:10 europe barbeque session Jul 12 13:37:33 oh Jul 12 13:37:34 fun Jul 12 13:37:51 OMFG Jul 12 13:37:56 ROTFL Jul 12 13:38:12 bme is using software floating point Jul 12 13:38:18 instead of using vfpu Jul 12 13:38:58 bme is using float? WTF? Jul 12 13:39:23 hope it will keep fingers out of DSP Jul 12 13:40:07 well you need floating point math for all battery calculations Jul 12 13:40:25 uhm, vfp is software floating point? :P Jul 12 13:40:29 no Jul 12 13:40:30 jacekowski: another indication of bme being a totally braindamaged steaming oile of shit Jul 12 13:40:33 * Termana smacks BME's fingers, "keep your fingers out of that DSP young man" :P Jul 12 13:40:41 Stskeeps: but bme is not using it Jul 12 13:40:52 jacekowski: you need WHAT? Jul 12 13:41:02 Stskeeps: bme has 70 instructions long function doing FDIV Jul 12 13:41:28 DocScrutinizer: floating point or double Jul 12 13:41:40 float for a stupid set of divisions and multiplications you easily can do in even 32bit int? Jul 12 13:42:03 well, you could Jul 12 13:42:11 but they went float way Jul 12 13:42:15 no, you shalt Jul 12 13:42:23 so why are they doing software float Jul 12 13:42:28 because they were noobs Jul 12 13:42:32 instead of using dedicated hardware Jul 12 13:42:40 hmm i could report a bug Jul 12 13:43:00 i could report a lot bugs Jul 12 13:43:12 noobs, botchers, lazy uninspired skiddies Jul 12 13:43:42 Rage against the mach^H^H Nokia Jul 12 13:43:45 FDIV is VFP.. Jul 12 13:43:45 :P Jul 12 13:43:58 Stskeeps: it should be Jul 12 13:44:02 it is Jul 12 13:44:07 Termana: bme isn't Nokia, it's subcontractors Jul 12 13:44:15 Stskeeps: but arm gcc defaults to not using vfp Jul 12 13:44:28 Stskeeps: and it's generating ARM equivalent Jul 12 13:44:43 err.. no, on v7 it defaults to it, and on v6+vfp too Jul 12 13:44:47 Stskeeps: and don't argue with me Jul 12 13:44:55 i see the code Jul 12 13:45:14 jacekowski: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0068b/Bcffiigf.html Jul 12 13:45:47 X-Fade: will there be an option/possibility to send out notifications to the folks whose packages have already been unlocked ? Jul 12 13:46:06 as well as http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/arm/VFP/release-notes.txt Jul 12 13:46:28 achipa: It will automatically do that for the ones unlocked by testers. Jul 12 13:47:00 * DocScrutinizer wonders what jacekowski hopes to learn from dissecting bme? How to code buggy wrong poorly designed programms? Jul 12 13:47:50 Stskeeps: fact - BME has software version of FDIV Jul 12 13:48:07 fact - BME is a pile of shit Jul 12 13:48:13 yes, of course, it's built against v6+vfp Jul 12 13:48:15 X-Fade: er, yes, but does this apply to those whom this has already happened and have not received the mails ? Jul 12 13:48:23 and v7 isn't on hardfloat Jul 12 13:48:24 achipa: Yes. Jul 12 13:48:42 Is someone already working on building a replacement for bme? :) Jul 12 13:49:02 achipa: As they don't have the mailed flag set yet. Jul 12 13:49:10 MiXu-: yes Jul 12 13:49:11 DocScrutinizer: that bsi would be nice, and we don't know bme proto Jul 12 13:49:17 X-Fade: yay ! Jul 12 13:49:48 jacekowski: bsi is nonsense cargo cult, and for protocol ask Stskeeps Jul 12 13:50:04 achipa: Also added: Status: Promotion unlocked, waiting for maintainter to promote Jul 12 13:50:13 achipa: To the package page. Jul 12 13:50:24 has anyone tried Wipeout64 in Mupen? Jul 12 13:50:32 X-Fade, is there any reason why promotion cannot come from automated means? Jul 12 13:50:33 X-Fade: (Y) Jul 12 13:50:48 lcuk: Yes, as that is not always what someone wants. Jul 12 13:51:00 X-Fade: are you in charge of display for user karma? Jul 12 13:51:01 sure Jul 12 13:51:04 lcuk: maintainer has last say. Jul 12 13:51:12 * lcuk nods Jul 12 13:51:19 konttori: o/ Jul 12 13:51:37 lol Mupen made my N900 reboot :\ Jul 12 13:51:45 tzz Jul 12 13:52:02 DocScrutinizer: I can be ;) Jul 12 13:52:05 hi Jul 12 13:52:15 hi Jul 12 13:53:09 X-Fade: watch http://maemo.org/profile/view/joerg_rw/ and tell me what rationale the length of 'favourites' bar - please :-) Jul 12 13:53:36 DocScrutinizer: There is a bug about that. It is just a bar ;) Jul 12 13:53:43 k :-P Jul 12 13:54:51 lo lcuk :) Jul 12 13:56:22 hey DocScrutinizer \o Jul 12 13:56:27 konttori: any news about EngineeringMode for cellmo (the more technical details like list of neighbour cells etc)? Jul 12 13:57:08 DocScrutinizer: well, looks like meego is moving to ophono, so, you'll get it at least then Jul 12 13:57:21 mhm Jul 12 13:58:54 a pity as quite a number of projects need this and won't work on maemo then Jul 12 13:59:10 e.g openBmap Jul 12 14:00:42 konttori: or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=740422#post740422 (^f konttori) Jul 12 14:01:31 well, i promised we would look into it. Jul 12 14:02:12 :-D Jul 12 14:02:50 unfortunately because of shift in the targets of fremantle maintenance, that support addition could not make it anymore after the new scopes and the cellmo team pretty much started focusing only on harmattan Jul 12 14:03:06 somewhere in March-ish Jul 12 14:03:32 should be possible to talk to the ofono guys, at least - we're doing a lot of n900 related celluar stuff Jul 12 14:05:25 akiniemi can help you guys hook up to the right people. he's "the man" on that area Jul 12 14:09:00 oO Jul 12 14:09:06 [66850.279754] cfg80211: Regulatory domain changed to country: EU Jul 12 14:09:09 [67451.521362] cfg80211: Regulatory domain changed to country: US Jul 12 14:09:12 [68052.822784] cfg80211: Regulatory domain changed to country: EU Jul 12 14:09:23 just like that without my help Jul 12 14:09:30 lol Jul 12 14:10:05 wlan regulatory doman switching is a mess, I heard Jul 12 14:10:58 wooot, Wipeout64 looks odd in Mupen Jul 12 14:11:13 fast though Jul 12 14:11:24 this with the accelerometer is my must-have game Jul 12 14:11:50 http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmrdsnotify/ Jul 12 14:11:52 ??? Jul 12 14:11:53 * DocScrutinizer sobs for mokomaze missing on N900 Jul 12 14:12:01 fmrdsnotify 0.4Fremantle Extras-devel free armelPackage has been removedSystem2010-07-01 10:34 UTC Jul 12 14:12:05 ??? Jul 12 14:12:24 why it was removed? Jul 12 14:12:48 PhonicUK: what's mupen? Jul 12 14:12:55 the N64 emulator Jul 12 14:12:58 ooh Jul 12 14:13:03 maybe eaten somebody's cat? Jul 12 14:13:07 it works quite well Jul 12 14:13:10 sounds cool Jul 12 14:13:29 slightly jerky I bet? Jul 12 14:13:38 jacekowski: Hmm because it depended on qt4-maemo5-, I guess :) Jul 12 14:13:41 not on all games Jul 12 14:13:46 Mario 64 is full speed Jul 12 14:13:50 and a few others too Jul 12 14:13:57 jacekowski: Seems that that is a case of string matching gone wrong.. Jul 12 14:14:11 I'd be more tempted to try the psx emu Jul 12 14:14:19 I would if it worked :P Jul 12 14:14:23 ah Jul 12 14:14:25 :( Jul 12 14:14:35 theres 2 PSX emus, but none of them are really playable Jul 12 14:14:42 pants Jul 12 14:14:49 things will probably get better if PSX4Pandora is ported Jul 12 14:14:57 heh, so all kittens alive :-D Jul 12 14:14:58 Mupen64 is really good though Jul 12 14:15:09 super smash bros :D Jul 12 14:15:09 cool I'll get on it Jul 12 14:15:20 mirf, make sure to read the forum thread about it Jul 12 14:15:24 theres important stuff there Jul 12 14:15:28 I just installed debian so I can get developing on n900 Jul 12 14:15:36 X-Fade: got the pomotion mail \o/ Jul 12 14:15:43 I'm pretty sure it hates my network card Jul 12 14:15:50 now let's see that extras promotion landrush... Jul 12 14:15:59 woot tonic trouble works xD Jul 12 14:16:53 PhonicUK, re: PSX4Pandora - why not just use the Pandora distro (I can't remember exactly their setup) in a chroot? Jul 12 14:17:13 Termana, they use Angstrom - and because of the effort involved :P Jul 12 14:17:24 jacekowski: restored, should show up again at some point. Jul 12 14:17:30 yeah seems a bit overkill just to play some psx games Jul 12 14:17:37 achipa: Good. Jul 12 14:17:47 somebody got an aircondition to lend? Jul 12 14:18:16 DocScrutinizer: it would only make things worse :) Jul 12 14:18:17 effort involved? Are you jerking me around? Some mounts here, some .so copying there and your practically done Jul 12 14:18:25 achipa: You can now see the unlocked packages in the qa list as they have green karma. Jul 12 14:18:26 DocScrutinizer, I have a heater for you :) MAWAHAHA Jul 12 14:18:33 would not mind a chroot made just for gaming Jul 12 14:18:46 it's pissing down here Jul 12 14:18:49 Termana: gimme, will hide in the shade Jul 12 14:18:55 and it apparently will continue for couple days Jul 12 14:19:12 jacekowski: where? Jul 12 14:19:15 essex Jul 12 14:19:17 colchester Jul 12 14:19:21 UK Jul 12 14:19:22 DocScrutinizer is moving Jul 12 14:19:23 hrrm Jul 12 14:19:25 :P Jul 12 14:19:37 actually I considered that yesterday Jul 12 14:19:48 where do you live? Jul 12 14:19:50 hi, the buildbot complains about “REJECTED: 'File size for /mnt/incoming-builder/fremantle/ringtoned_0.1.1-0.tar.gz does not match that specified in .dsc'”. I think it's because the uploadd failed and I repeated it. is there a way to resubmit the same version? Jul 12 14:19:53 DocScrutinizer, because of the weather? Jul 12 14:19:57 ~weather EDDN Jul 12 14:20:00 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.07.12 1350 UTC; Dew Point: 57 F (14 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.88 in. Hg (1012 hPa); Relative Humidity: 30%; Temperature: 93 F (34 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the S (190 degrees) at 5 MPH (4 KT) Jul 12 14:20:04 DocScrutinizer let me learn you something Jul 12 14:20:11 barisione: upload probably didn't complete then. Jul 12 14:20:12 X-Fade: sweet... who says you have no design skills :) Jul 12 14:20:18 barisione: checksums are incorrect in your case Jul 12 14:20:27 achipa: Hehe well I wanted an icon, but that is for later ;) Jul 12 14:20:45 X-Fade, jacekowski: yeah, but how do I repeat the upload? Jul 12 14:20:53 add to that the downtown bonus of another 5°C Jul 12 14:20:55 DocScrutinizer, don't move to Australia - the weather fluctuates. One day is sunny and warm, the next freezing cold Jul 12 14:20:57 barisione: just dput it again? Jul 12 14:21:04 X-Fade: Package has already been uploaded to fremantle-extras-builder on drop.maemo.org Jul 12 14:21:04 Nothing more to do for ringtoned_0.1.1-0_armel.changes Jul 12 14:21:16 it's* Jul 12 14:21:17 hmm i have fmms installed and i set my phone to automatic connection ( wifi or data celullar ) when not wifi around is get connect to the MMS connection that fmms create is anyway that i can set priority to a connection or can i delete the connection that fmms create ? Jul 12 14:21:24 barisione: Use scp then? Jul 12 14:21:31 or the only way is uninstall fmms ? Jul 12 14:22:05 DocScrutinizer: you've got 3 degrees on me, but I have 52% (and rising) humidity Jul 12 14:22:12 barisione: Or the web interface: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php Jul 12 14:22:40 ah, let's try with scp Jul 12 14:23:23 forget my question i find the solution at the wiki Jul 12 14:23:28 ah, and dput has a --force option Jul 12 14:23:30 interesting Jul 12 14:23:40 barisione: hehe, makes sense too. Jul 12 14:23:45 * DocScrutinizer trying to move his arse to head out to a nicely AC'd shopping mall Jul 12 14:23:56 thanks, I used scp and it worked. next time I will use --force Jul 12 14:26:23 hmm Jul 12 14:26:41 how would i make rds_ps dynamic Jul 12 14:26:50 and push all info there Jul 12 14:33:17 HOORAY Nokia is sending me SPAM Jul 12 14:33:58 HTML-only mail BS Jul 12 14:34:15 spamassassin rating 5.5 Jul 12 14:34:39 fuggit Jul 12 14:37:08 jacekowski: you're good on giberish ;-P Jul 12 14:37:26 nah, i'm not going to decode that mail for you Jul 12 14:37:55 I'm not going to google rds_ps for you Jul 12 14:38:22 not even for me ;-D Jul 12 14:38:33 rds_ps - station name displayed on radio Jul 12 14:38:58 and i want something that most of stations do Jul 12 14:39:22 which is scrolling text there ( it's non conforming to specification but fuck it ) Jul 12 14:39:50 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Jul 12 14:40:02 seen that... failing Jul 12 14:41:32 non-conforming to specs means that *may* work with your particular model of receiver Jul 12 14:41:51 well, spec says that it can change Jul 12 14:42:01 just not too often because it might distract the driver Jul 12 14:42:16 yes, but spec doesn't say how often, and how fast it's polled Jul 12 14:42:50 so you'll find receivers that do a really bad job at scrolling text there Jul 12 14:43:37 actually virtually all receivers will fail to display a useful scrolling, by whatever definition Jul 12 14:44:14 of useful Jul 12 14:44:28 anyways i'm going back to playing with cal Jul 12 14:44:36 i need some gui to modify it easily Jul 12 14:44:46 mhm Jul 12 14:44:54 and somehow get names of all blocks there Jul 12 14:44:58 evil hax0r Jul 12 14:45:31 and then make it public Jul 12 14:45:36 without any warnings Jul 12 14:45:39 I even have a radio with 7 chars to display rds ;) Jul 12 14:45:54 and see how many people will break their phones by touching config block Jul 12 14:46:47 jacekowski: you share apartment with titan? Jul 12 14:46:48 because nolo will refuse to boot if it's damaged Jul 12 14:46:55 DocScrutinizer: who he is? Jul 12 14:47:08 powerkernel Jul 12 14:47:23 any links? Jul 12 14:47:34 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Jul 12 14:47:44 you mentioned the name Jul 12 14:48:26 search in HAM - fsckng powerkernel is in extras now Jul 12 14:50:08 ham and search Jul 12 14:50:44 it's like selling kits with Acetone and H2O2 to people, and tell them "it's relatively safe substances, just don't mix" Jul 12 14:51:17 well, i'm surprised that you recommended searching in HAM Jul 12 14:53:12 "powerkernel doesn't do any OC by default. User has to set that, and read the warnings when doing so" - - - "OC tool let's you select the max cpu clockfreq easily from a GUI. Just read the warning that come with powerkernel" Jul 12 14:55:39 Maemo: Where EVERYTHING is in maintenance mode! Jul 12 14:56:19 even google! Jul 12 14:57:09 GAN900: extras repo *IS* supposed to be safe and no need to read lengthy wiki pages with warnings prior to installing&using whatever comes in extras Jul 12 14:58:08 Fremantle had such a tiny window of opportunity. Jul 12 14:58:20 Then Nokia just tossed everybody out on their asses. Jul 12 14:58:55 hell, that's WRONG when I could get an autodistruct app into extras when only it's optified and gets 10 votes Jul 12 14:59:37 DocScrutinizer: You suggesting we remove 'rm' or dd too? Jul 12 15:00:17 hello. is the system software on an N810 and an N900 totally open source, or are there bits and pieces (like hardware drivers) that aren't? what about the telephony stack on the 900? Jul 12 15:00:18 "what, your device gone BOOM? X-P NOOB! didn't you read the wiki warnings about autodist?" Jul 12 15:01:47 X-Fade: no, but I suggest we keep out of extras any app that makes it mandatory to read wikipages, so user understands what he must not do with this app Jul 12 15:02:10 DocScrutinizer: It doesn't do anything by default. Jul 12 15:02:22 DocScrutinizer: You need to read the wiki anyway to do something useful. Jul 12 15:02:25 X-Fade: yes, like acetone Jul 12 15:03:07 X-Fade: nope, I've been told OC is just a click away, after you installed powerkernel with config gui Jul 12 15:03:28 kernel=acetone, GUI=peroxide Jul 12 15:03:45 DocScrutinizer: Foot, gun, aim ;) Jul 12 15:04:36 X-Fade: nah, keep it, or I won't find any more victims to bash up&down the channel for OC without any clue Jul 12 15:05:37 LjL: no, telephony stack is getting opened though. fremantle is about 43% open source. for n900, follow the meego on n900 project Jul 12 15:05:42 LjL: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Jul 12 15:06:17 X-Fade: just make sure you're prepared and got your asbestos underwear when Nokia managers call for meeting about why N900 has no revenue due to excessive repair on warranty Jul 12 15:06:24 thanks Jul 12 15:07:55 DocScrutinizer, with as little support as they've provided for the platform, I doubt very much a few OCers will blow away the profits. *eg* Jul 12 15:08:17 X-Fade: don't expect Nokia EE will take the blame. They will clearly prove they built a industry standard device, and also informed sw engineers about how to handle it Jul 12 15:12:30 GAN900: I'm not sure they are just a few. And service due to constant segfaults of whatever system daemon, just because some gate ran out of spec due to OC and fails 10 out of 100, that for sure will eventually pile up on management's desk Jul 12 15:12:46 How do I select multiple items with a qlistview? Jul 12 15:13:07 hold shift? ;-P Jul 12 15:13:08 DocScrutinizer: well, n900 isn't average user device Jul 12 15:13:22 I mean with code :) Jul 12 15:13:27 DocScrutinizer: tbh i think it's more like 7650 was Jul 12 15:13:31 jacekowski: ask nokia, they will tell you contrary Jul 12 15:13:41 DocScrutinizer, well, let's consider it payback for all the money they've saved by putting the platform and the website into maintenance mode 8 months after release. Jul 12 15:13:45 DocScrutinizer: test device with lot of stuff to see how it works and what people think Jul 12 15:14:06 clearly it's not a device intended to last longer than that. :P Jul 12 15:14:28 low number of people dumb enough to claim warranty on a low percentage of dead devices in the timeframe most people replace them from a low percentage of devices that get overclocked from a device that's sold in small numbers to a niche market = not a huge loss for nokia to reject some warranties Jul 12 15:15:04 that too Jul 12 15:15:30 i don't think that running it overclocked will make it fail Jul 12 15:15:42 well not when warranty is valid Jul 12 15:15:48 btw. is it year or 2? Jul 12 15:15:52 it wont, its just that some will fail earlier than they otherwise would Jul 12 15:16:10 depends where you are, throughout the eu it's 2 years Jul 12 15:16:32 jacekowski, depends in your locale. Jul 12 15:17:20 i'm just wondering if i could claim it from my insurance Jul 12 15:17:24 as accidental damage Jul 12 15:17:53 that would probably get complicated Jul 12 15:19:04 jacekowski: easy. OC to 1GHz and run aircrack on it to really use the CPU and membus. Then I bet you can test if your assurance will pay - very soon Jul 12 15:19:36 i could ask them Jul 12 15:19:51 if you ask them, you've already voided any chance youll have of claiming it Jul 12 15:20:08 you intentionally overclock the device, the onus is on you not knowing doing so would damage the device Jul 12 15:20:29 but asking them if damaging the device in that way is covered by insurance is an implicit admission that you know doing so might damage it Jul 12 15:22:04 nidO: ack, except s/its just that some will fail/its just that all will fail/ Jul 12 15:22:41 and you don't know exactly when that is going to happen Jul 12 15:22:53 the insurance policy will state that it doesnt cover situations where you intentionally do something you know might reasonably damage your insured product Jul 12 15:22:57 but seems TI does Jul 12 15:23:15 nidO: well, using a stylus on screen causes scratches Jul 12 15:23:25 if you're brutal with the screen yes Jul 12 15:23:33 nidO: but it's covered by the insurance Jul 12 15:23:39 i've been using a stylus on my n900 since early february and mine's still pristine Jul 12 15:24:03 my only scatch isn't from stylus :-P Jul 12 15:24:07 mine is scratched little bit Jul 12 15:24:17 it's from a grain of dust on my fnger Jul 12 15:24:17 and i have one hole in a screen Jul 12 15:24:50 haircross target app? X-P Jul 12 15:25:52 Has there been any official mention of a Japanese IME for Maemo? Jul 12 15:26:08 frankly if it came down to it, your safer bet if the phone dies from being oc'd would be to take up running, accidentally not secure the phone in your pocket very well, and run until you drop it Jul 12 15:27:11 heh Jul 12 15:27:29 well 3 deeper scratches Jul 12 15:27:32 1 hole Jul 12 15:27:34 small hole Jul 12 15:27:51 or just ask for the warranty Jul 12 15:28:07 jacekowski: WTF? thought that r-ts is oil-separated Jul 12 15:28:16 apply 220V ad libitum on the SoC Jul 12 15:28:18 r-ts? Jul 12 15:28:34 resistive touchscreen Jul 12 15:28:34 not that deep hole Jul 12 15:29:11 btw. how much does that r-ts cost? Jul 12 15:29:30 err I seem to remember ~60EUR Jul 12 15:29:32 in the uk you can get replacements bought and fitted for 50-75 Jul 12 15:29:46 what about nokia care centre? Jul 12 15:30:01 generally the higher end of that kinda figure Jul 12 15:32:24 hmm, i'll send them an e-mail Jul 12 15:32:29 or call Jul 12 15:37:44 where can I find the ipp backend for cups (n900)? doesn't seem to be in the cups/cups-common packages Jul 12 15:38:28 is there a way to block contacts/msgs in the jabber client? Jul 12 15:38:45 X-Fade: btw there's (almost) nothing you could destroy by using dd or rm, that couldn't be fixed by user with a standard flashing of rootfs. Even scratch the "(almost)" for things that are permanently broken and need hw fix Jul 12 15:39:36 Khertan: you around? Jul 12 15:40:12 has anyone tried installing Mer on their device? Jul 12 15:40:42 mer is called meego now Jul 12 15:40:46 eeh? Jul 12 15:41:03 I thought Meego = nokia offical, Mer = community built Jul 12 15:41:16 ah i see now Jul 12 15:42:10 has anyone tried installing Meego on their device? Jul 12 15:42:31 /join #meego-arm Jul 12 15:44:37 DocScrutinizer: well Jul 12 15:44:49 DocScrutinizer: if cal is fucked up nolo will refuse to boot Jul 12 15:45:06 jacekowski: allegedly, yes Jul 12 15:45:52 wait... if Mer "is" MeeGo, how come Mer works on the N810, and MeeGo so far doesn't? Or am i wrong about the former? Jul 12 15:46:14 it isn't, DocScrutinizer is generalising Jul 12 15:46:19 mer is dead. meego is the successor Jul 12 15:46:22 jacekowski: I'd bet there's an 'image' to restore cal. probably even for flasher & jig Jul 12 15:48:41 jacekowski: maybe there's even a secret R&D flag option for NOLO to use a default cal and boot nevertheless, or at least enter flashing mode so you can flash cal via NOLO Jul 12 15:48:48 DocScrutinizer: there isn't Jul 12 15:48:53 there's cold flashing Jul 12 15:49:14 not sure if it works without a working nolo, though Jul 12 15:49:22 Stskeeps: does cold flashing use a special jig Jul 12 15:49:23 ? Jul 12 15:49:35 just uart Jul 12 15:49:45 well i have a way of writing anywhere trough nolo Jul 12 15:49:46 mhm Jul 12 15:50:01 including directly writing to cal Jul 12 15:50:27 but it will still need working config Jul 12 15:50:32 i mean not working working Jul 12 15:50:35 aiui OMAP has a way to load some executable directly from UART Jul 12 15:50:38 but config with correct checksum Jul 12 15:50:45 then execute that Jul 12 15:50:52 DocScrutinizer: not in default boot order Jul 12 15:51:06 DocScrutinizer: in default one it will go to nolo before uart Jul 12 15:51:44 mhm, so probably it needs shorting 2 testpads to switch that Jul 12 15:53:15 hmmm Jul 12 15:53:20 is there a way to brick a n900? Jul 12 15:53:22 it looks like there are 2 kinds of cal Jul 12 15:53:26 kerio: yes Jul 12 15:53:36 kerio: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mtd0 Jul 12 15:53:41 kerio: and it's a brick Jul 12 15:53:53 no way to recover? Jul 12 15:54:00 not with usb cable Jul 12 15:54:05 nokia can flash it Jul 12 15:54:21 what's mtd0? Jul 12 15:54:29 partition on nand Jul 12 15:54:32 with nolo Jul 12 15:55:17 if you intentionally saw over your leaf, you're stupd Jul 12 15:55:17 :P Jul 12 15:55:27 that's how i nuked my N800 lol Jul 12 15:55:40 messed up mtd0 Jul 12 15:56:11 oO Jul 12 15:56:17 there are 2 types of cal Jul 12 15:56:31 Is it possible to get usb networking to ifup when it's connected via usb and ifdown when disconnected? Jul 12 15:56:34 btw Jul 12 15:56:39 one that libcal is touching and prototypes are avaliable Jul 12 15:56:41 and there is other one Jul 12 15:56:43 Presumably using udev? :) Jul 12 15:56:50 that nolo is using as well Jul 12 15:56:52 anyone can share /dev/mtd1 backup? :) Jul 12 15:56:57 lost mine somewhere Jul 12 15:57:12 and there are no prototypes for it for libcal ( but libcal is exporting required functions ) Jul 12 15:57:12 slonopotamus: just download the fiasco image ... Jul 12 15:57:29 alterego: mtd1 == cal Jul 12 15:57:33 alterego: it's not in fiasco image Jul 12 15:57:48 Ah Jul 12 15:58:01 btw, that's total crap that backup tool doesn't backup cal. Jul 12 15:59:37 cal isn't supposed to be touched by userspace Jul 12 15:59:44 erm.. Jul 12 15:59:45 :P Jul 12 15:59:51 it is, though Jul 12 15:59:52 by dsme and co Jul 12 15:59:54 well i mean nothing there shouldn't be stored Jul 12 15:59:57 ehhh Jul 12 16:00:09 you know what i mean Jul 12 16:00:23 There's a lot of phonet debugging output in dmesg. It's kind of annoying .. Jul 12 16:00:26 not really :-P Jul 12 16:00:56 does anyone use gpe_calendar with syncevolution? Jul 12 16:04:33 why is bootscreen removed from the repos? Jul 12 16:05:09 which package contains cups' ipp backend? Jul 12 16:06:39 dotblank[laptop], because it depended on libqt4-maemo5 Jul 12 16:08:26 nidO, oh ok... Jul 12 16:31:09 Does anyone happen to know of an open-source keyboard noises -> keystrokes app? That is that detects the noises of the keystrokes, and performs modeling of what the keys might be? Jul 12 16:34:00 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2010/07/tuaw-iphone4-dslr-07-07-2010.jpg Jul 12 16:34:07 * RST38h laughs satanically Jul 12 16:37:19 :) Jul 12 16:42:02 Gentlemen, I am sorry to ask again, but could all the interested parties vote here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fbreader/0.10.7-13/ Jul 12 16:43:39 what does that do? Jul 12 16:45:59 It reads books. Jul 12 16:46:05 Well - enables you to read books. Jul 12 16:46:24 I mean - it enables you to view books on screen - it does not teach you magically to read. Jul 12 16:46:35 Though I suspect most people using IRC can read. Jul 12 16:47:39 ...I never learned to read or write... Jul 12 16:48:08 Not all people - there are people who can't read and use IRC Jul 12 16:48:26 * RST38h is actually against teaching people write Jul 12 16:48:28 RST38h, what's new? Jul 12 16:48:34 clearly, RST38h Jul 12 16:48:37 in that version of fbreader? Jul 12 16:48:41 It is helpful to teach them to read though Jul 12 16:48:47 mgedmin: compared to -12? Jul 12 16:49:01 yes Jul 12 16:49:01 IMO some rudimentary writing ability is needed Jul 12 16:49:11 mgedmin: I have fixed the zlibrary dependency, as it made App Manager "forget" to install the latest library Jul 12 16:49:25 ah, only packaging changes then Jul 12 16:49:33 mgedmin: Still, it is important Jul 12 16:49:36 yes Jul 12 16:49:49 mgedmin: -11 fixes the stall when loading a book on startup Jul 12 16:49:55 woohoo Jul 12 16:49:56 Woo! Jul 12 16:49:58 mgedmin: And adds scroll-by-drag Jul 12 16:50:13 Does it take away the existing scroll behaviour? Jul 12 16:50:14 I've discovered recently that the stall-when-loading can be shortened if you tap the screen/press a key Jul 12 16:50:18 mgedmin: Which is the first really reliable touch-scrolling mechanism in Maemo5 Jul 12 16:50:22 but it'll be much nicer to be rid of it altogether Jul 12 16:50:35 mgedmin: Yea, it was hanging in a blocking gtk+ loop Jul 12 16:50:44 mgedmin: I made it non-blocking and that fixed it Jul 12 16:51:04 Speed: No, scroll-by-drag is optional, but enabled by default Jul 12 16:51:15 ah Jul 12 16:52:08 maybe the table of contents will become usable Jul 12 16:52:21 I hate it how tap-to-scroll takes precedence over tap-to-follow-link Jul 12 16:52:32 it is usable now Jul 12 16:52:35 there's plenty of empty areas without any links I could tap on if I wanted to scroll Jul 12 16:52:51 mgedmin: unfortunately it is more complicated than that Jul 12 16:52:52 I never use TOCs myself Jul 12 16:53:12 mgedmin: I also thought that it would be easy to fix. No fucking way. Jul 12 16:53:43 mgedmin: Touchscreen is no mouse, and the N900 touchscreen is incredibly noisy Jul 12 16:54:20 mgedmin: FBReader tries filtering out the noise, but only succeeds in failing to scroll completely Jul 12 16:54:45 And if I force it to scroll, it starts overriding list selection (see above: NOISE) Jul 12 16:54:50 I banged head against wall for a long time until I made it scroll on taps reliably Jul 12 16:54:56 with the same downside Jul 12 16:55:06 yea. so I worked around that Jul 12 16:55:07 how does this new "drag to scroll" thing work? Jul 12 16:55:12 I see it selected in my preferences Jul 12 16:55:21 I perceive no difference: tapping scrolls, dragging does nothing Jul 12 16:55:23 It will scroll when abs(dy/dx)>=5 Jul 12 16:55:48 you have to enable it, or delete your current config Jul 12 16:56:02 if it's not enabled, why is the checkbox checked in my preferences? Jul 12 16:56:26 then it is enabled Jul 12 16:57:02 then I perceive no difference from old behaviour Jul 12 16:57:06 * mgedmin shrugs Jul 12 16:58:01 _o/ Jul 12 16:58:20 mgedmin: You are doing something wrong. Jul 12 16:58:31 undoubtely Jul 12 16:58:35 mgedmin: Move your config somewhere safe Jul 12 16:58:39 I've this gift of breaking software by using it normally Jul 12 16:58:40 mgedmin: And start FBReader Jul 12 16:59:04 YOu are probably not breaking anything, just have somewhat screwed maemo-specific touch settings Jul 12 16:59:14 oh, I have _those_ Jul 12 16:59:46 remove your config, restart, see if dragging works Jul 12 16:59:58 etc. Jul 12 17:00:18 how infinitely better xml is when compared to a simple .ini file Jul 12 17:00:36 Well, isn't XML a REAL programming language? :) Jul 12 17:00:40 * RST38h ducks. Quickly. Jul 12 17:00:44 bloody grouped string key and value pars Jul 12 17:00:57 you're mistaken, HTML is a programming language Jul 12 17:01:00 XML is a database engine Jul 12 17:01:19 the prof at my uni managed to give off the impression XML will replace RDBMSes Jul 12 17:01:29 mhm ... someone wants to make a turing_machine.xslt which takes a xml file as tape? :) Jul 12 17:01:39 Oh I can tell you way more about this than is healthy Jul 12 17:01:40 * mgedmin is now coming across as an XML-hater, when he actually quite likes it Jul 12 17:02:02 I'd ask if comp.lang.xml.recovery existed if I knew how to use Usenet Jul 12 17:02:10 Yes, you CAN do DBMS in XML Jul 12 17:02:21 It is about the same as doing programming in Java though Jul 12 17:03:41 better Java than XSLT, though Jul 12 17:04:30 "Which turd do you want, your choice" :) Jul 12 17:04:51 ok, gotta go Jul 12 17:04:55 voted for fbreader Jul 12 17:05:58 thanks Jul 12 17:06:35 XSLT authors probably never got to use their creation for anything serious Jul 12 17:09:07 I saw someone implementing a 'find the centre of a polygon' algorithm in xslt Jul 12 17:09:20 Insane. Jul 12 17:09:23 Ah, screw the polygon Jul 12 17:09:29 In that there was basically no math support Jul 12 17:09:33 Try implementing something XSLT has been "designed" for Jul 12 17:09:44 I.e. text processing Jul 12 17:09:52 Try that without regular expressions ;) Jul 12 17:09:53 This was to transform a XML map Jul 12 17:10:19 * SpeedEvil drops 130Gb of XML on RST38h. Jul 12 17:10:30 * RST38h redirects to /dev/null Jul 12 17:11:03 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm Jul 12 17:11:09 Actually - I guess >250 by now Jul 12 17:13:00 wazzzd Jul 12 17:13:19 wazd: happy birthday! Jul 12 17:15:07 Stskeeps: oooh, thank you :) Jul 12 17:15:13 RST38h: o/ Jul 12 17:17:40 Does someone know where the app manager gets the names from which it displays as the package name? Jul 12 17:18:08 because it doesn't seem to be the NAME field Jul 12 17:19:37 Package: alarmed in control/control. Yet e.g. in the package overview page on the maemo homepage, it has a capital A, "Alarmed" Jul 12 17:21:19 Maemo-Display-Name Jul 12 17:21:55 GAN900: oh. does it default to capitalizing if there's no such field? Jul 12 17:22:53 Not as far as I'm aware Jul 12 17:25:01 SpeedEvil: is that usable? Jul 12 17:29:16 Is what usable? Jul 12 17:31:53 http://gizmodo.com/5584979/hayao-miyazaki-compares-ipad-use-to-masturbation Jul 12 17:32:10 Finally. The great master speaks up. Jul 12 17:33:08 GAN900: does this go in .changes or do I have to put it elsewhere? Jul 12 17:33:13 the Maemo-Display-Name Jul 12 17:33:17 hmm Jul 12 17:33:32 Shapeshifter, goes in you control file. Jul 12 17:33:38 * luke-jr ponders if it would be worthwhile to write a dumbphone UI emulator for N900 Jul 12 17:33:55 why? it already has the dumbphone ui Jul 12 17:33:57 GAN900: okay thanks Jul 12 17:33:59 eg, so you can tell T-Mobile & co you have the dumbphone and get cheaper service Jul 12 17:34:11 ah Jul 12 17:34:37 dumbphone? Jul 12 17:34:49 mirf: a cellphone w/ 1 CPU Jul 12 17:35:39 more an immediate problem for me, is that T-Mobile has no prepaid data here Jul 12 17:36:14 the closest they have is a $1/day Sidekick plan with filtered (NAT+proxy) access Jul 12 17:36:22 ahhh like smartphone only dumb Jul 12 17:48:32 does someone know what the numbers in the middle mean in this line in a .dsc file after "Files:"? 5ea7a67afd7ffd44fa8e6adbb4e7bead 8597288 reactionfaceoff_0.0.1-1.tar.gz Jul 12 17:48:39 the "8597288" Jul 12 17:48:52 size? crc32? Jul 12 17:49:19 how many cookies you need to send me? Jul 12 17:50:18 BugBlue: mh. yeah size in bytes probably Jul 12 17:50:45 did I ever mention that I find deb packaging to be the greatest pita I've ever encountered on linux? Jul 12 17:50:48 ._. Jul 12 17:51:08 pft. Jul 12 17:51:20 you've apparently never tried to compile gcc on a small hard drive. Jul 12 17:51:20 <_llll_> it;s a hash Jul 12 17:51:34 * SpeedEvil has done it on a 60M drive. Jul 12 17:51:39 Not recently tho. Jul 12 17:51:44 SpeedEvil: what version was it? Jul 12 17:52:04 recent versions of gcc take over 1.5GB for source + object files Jul 12 17:52:15 cooool Jul 12 17:52:36 GCC pools ahead of Visual Studio in terms of disk space usage! Jul 12 17:52:41 s/pools/pulls Jul 12 17:53:14 just when building it. Jul 12 17:53:17 the installed size is a lot smaller Jul 12 17:53:21 i wonder how much space you need to build visual studio Jul 12 17:53:22 sys-devel/gcc-4.4.4-r1: 813 files, 65 non-files, 85659.668 KB Jul 12 17:53:27 cross-armv5tel-softfloat-linux-gnueabi/gcc-4.4.4-r1: 734 files, 97 non-files, 48505.58 KB Jul 12 17:53:32 man this is so stupid Jul 12 17:53:48 ah, not fair then =) Jul 12 17:54:01 i dunno, in like '96 or '97, i was building it on a 2GB hard drive for unremembered reasons, where os and everything was on there. i seem to remember the build taking upwards of 500 MB Jul 12 17:54:05 if not more Jul 12 17:54:05 arachnist: I might have a problem then :( Jul 12 17:54:19 luke-jr: mount over some space over nfs Jul 12 17:54:26 arachnist: ew Jul 12 17:54:35 or coda, if you please Jul 12 17:54:51 why on earth is the md5 for the tar.gz in the .dsc if it's already in the .changes file. And why is the same info scattered across several different files in different places. And why is it so damn picky about white spaces. what on earth is this, why haven't they fixed this horrid package management. Jul 12 17:54:54 cifs! Jul 12 17:55:06 arachnist: decade old? Jul 12 17:55:14 SpeedEvil: ? Jul 12 17:55:30 arachnist: it was ~1.2.13 kernel Jul 12 17:55:36 oh Jul 12 17:55:42 Shapeshifter: package management, in general, blows. Jul 12 17:55:50 60M wasn't a small drive Jul 12 17:55:52 mortini: pacman does it right. Jul 12 17:55:54 it's brilliant. Jul 12 17:56:10 mortini: not if done right Jul 12 17:56:12 It also had the fortune of being, what. 5 years old? Jul 12 17:56:16 arachnist: isn't coda hard to setup? Jul 12 17:56:20 <_llll_> Shapeshifter: but the packaging tools do all that stuff for you, so it makes zero impact on you Jul 12 17:56:21 mortini: paludis gets it right Jul 12 17:56:27 zash: actually, never tried it Jul 12 17:56:38 _llll_: the packaging tools are incredibly complicated Jul 12 17:56:41 <_llll_> they are? Jul 12 17:56:47 <_llll_> use debhelper Jul 12 17:56:57 yeah right, a wrapper aroudn a wrapper around a wrapper Jul 12 17:57:08 <_llll_> so? Jul 12 17:57:08 arachnist: meh :( it seemed way harder than nfs to setup when i tried :( Jul 12 17:57:21 * Stskeeps is actually happy about spec + spectacle after spending some time with rpm Jul 12 17:57:35 zash: nfs exported from a zfs-backed nas does all i need Jul 12 17:57:48 arachnist: but does it work offline? Jul 12 17:57:56 arachnist++ Jul 12 17:58:05 zash: my network's never offline Jul 12 17:58:14 my nas is never offline Jul 12 17:58:43 arachnist: but I am sometimes :( Jul 12 17:58:58 * zash want's some smart caching fs Jul 12 17:59:51 zash: that will travel in time for one day ahead and cache exactly what you're going to use that day? Jul 12 18:00:22 arachnist: yes, exactly! Jul 12 18:01:08 arachnist: but I would be satisfied if it just cached stuff I regulary use, and clear less popular stuff when the cache gets too big Jul 12 18:02:19 anyway Jul 12 18:02:22 SEL time Jul 12 18:02:48 (and i wonder how many people will get that one Jul 12 18:06:33 SpeedEvil: is the whole of planet.osm usable on n900 with a program? Jul 12 18:07:34 Oh and look at this magnificent error message Jul 12 18:07:36 "dpkg-gencontrol: error: must specify package since control info has many () Jul 12 18:07:44 that's not even a sentence. Jul 12 18:08:29 sure it is Jul 12 18:08:39 it's just missing quotes around () Jul 12 18:09:45 and what is a ()? Jul 12 18:09:54 an empty cheeseburger? Jul 12 18:10:06 blahblahblah (blah blah) blah blah Jul 12 18:10:07 parentheses Jul 12 18:10:22 or the control info is a lisp source code Jul 12 18:10:46 luke-jr: orly. Jul 12 18:12:21 so what do you recommend for packaging pythong programs, then? Jul 12 18:12:27 as a wrapper around wrappers Jul 12 18:12:27 on another note, T-Mobile appears to only be blocking a few ports on that Sidekick plan Jul 12 18:12:37 Shapeshifter: I recommend avoiding Python :D Jul 12 18:12:57 very helpful Jul 12 18:23:40 SpeedEvil: do you know of a way to make mappero use a locally-downloaded, bzipped planet.osm? Jul 12 18:36:38 GAN900: well that didn't work. autobuilder removed "Maemo-Display-Name: Reaction face-off" from the control file. Jul 12 18:38:11 this is hopeless Jul 12 18:42:08 oh well Jul 12 18:42:15 I looked it up and it's "XB-Maemo-Display-Name" Jul 12 18:42:28 Shapeshifter, doh! what are you using for packaging Jul 12 18:42:57 lcuk: py2deb. and then I go manually editing the control file and re-doing md5 sums and so on. But now I'll first fix py2deb to include that field Jul 12 18:43:35 cool stuff Jul 12 18:56:58 kerio: I think mappero is a raster based app Jul 12 18:57:11 kerio: To generate tiles locally, you need to setup an instance of mapnik Jul 12 18:57:41 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik Jul 12 18:58:33 planet.osm is a xml database dump - it is generally not intended to be directly used by renderers Jul 12 18:59:11 In principle you could generate a map using a browser, and xslt - but many browsers are somewhat slow dealing with 250G of XML Jul 12 19:00:42 heh Jul 12 19:00:44 no kidding Jul 12 19:01:24 what's mapnik? and is it viable to use it locally on the n900? Jul 12 19:01:45 See the above page. Jul 12 19:01:49 And no. Jul 12 19:02:10 DocScrutinizer: there is one more thing you have to remember Jul 12 19:02:13 DocScrutinizer: with jrbme Jul 12 19:02:20 and does mappero still use the data for something else? Jul 12 19:02:55 I think mappero just downloads tiles Jul 12 19:03:02 from the server Jul 12 19:03:08 that is - pre-rasterised content Jul 12 19:03:22 DocScrutinizer: you have to handle emergency calls somehow Jul 12 19:03:36 DocScrutinizer: because bme will not request shutdown if there is emergency call in progress Jul 12 19:03:55 The cellmo turns off anyway at 3vish Jul 12 19:04:15 I assume Jul 12 19:04:29 yeah, but there are other cases when phone will shutdown Jul 12 19:04:34 like overtemperature Jul 12 19:04:40 or lost BSI Jul 12 19:05:05 OR no BSI Jul 12 19:05:11 - it won't boot Jul 12 19:05:20 yeah, but it will keep running Jul 12 19:05:24 On another topic. Jul 12 19:05:31 so simplest way to hot swap batteries Jul 12 19:05:36 call 112 Jul 12 19:05:41 I am looking for something to analyse TCP streams. Jul 12 19:06:01 I have found tcpick - which reassembles them into two files per stream - one per direction Jul 12 19:06:01 gui? Jul 12 19:06:02 jacekowski: hmhm, I'm aware of that. Emergency cals will even override fatal overtemperature. Anyway I don't plan to handle shutdown in jrbme at all Jul 12 19:06:05 this is - nearly - ideal Jul 12 19:06:19 tshark? Jul 12 19:06:41 I would like something like a hexdump of the reassembled stream in both directions at once, with a timestamp Jul 12 19:06:52 tshark would do the job Jul 12 19:07:09 but the thing is Jul 12 19:07:14 what are you trying to do? Jul 12 19:07:16 (call 112 to swap batteries) LOL Jul 12 19:08:38 hmm - looks plausible Jul 12 19:09:35 jacekowski: Examine a (not directly n900 related) text/binary protocol to work out the details. I've gotten most of it - I just need the sequencing - for example - which side initiates a login request Jul 12 19:09:59 DocScrutinizer: epic Jul 12 19:10:01 on a pc? Jul 12 19:10:08 how fast do you need to be? Jul 12 19:10:21 jacekowski: yes. Jul 12 19:10:23 i would recommend wireshark Jul 12 19:11:47 I have awk decoding 95% of the protocol, I just need the wrinkles. Jul 12 19:12:08 go for wireshark and write a proper dissector Jul 12 19:12:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireshark Jul 12 19:12:41 if there's none yet (very low probability) Jul 12 19:12:52 Very high. Jul 12 19:13:02 and there is text version which is called tshark Jul 12 19:13:07 It's not a normal protocol, it's cooked by a somewhat broken site. Jul 12 19:13:20 SpeedEvil: what is that anyways? Jul 12 19:13:24 Is Qt Mobility available on n900's at the moment? Jul 12 19:13:56 jacekowski: I've been asked not to reveal it ATM. Jul 12 19:14:03 It may popup as an app at some point Jul 12 19:14:54 STRIKE! heavy rain and -7° Jul 12 19:14:59 delta Jul 12 19:15:11 falling Jul 12 19:15:17 And if so, I cant find a QSensor for GPS so should I just be using liblocation from Qt or is there some other way people have been using? Jul 12 19:15:37 wow. i got gas on thursday and used my debit card and it is monday now and it still hasn't cleared Jul 12 19:15:57 Macer: don't worry Jul 12 19:15:59 Macer: it will Jul 12 19:16:03 haha Jul 12 19:16:08 DocScrutinizer: is the backup battery big enough to power an idle phone for, say, 5 seconds? Jul 12 19:16:13 maybe there was a technical glitch and they lost all the transactions for that day :) Jul 12 19:16:16 Macer, 3 days. Jul 12 19:16:17 no way Jul 12 19:16:18 kerio: no Jul 12 19:16:24 kerio: it's not connected that way Jul 12 19:16:32 GAN900: it si the only place that does this Jul 12 19:16:33 besides, backup battery in my phone is probably dead Jul 12 19:16:33 and even if it were Jul 12 19:16:40 it lasts maybe 5-10 minutes Jul 12 19:16:41 everything else comes out instantly Jul 12 19:16:46 it couldn't even supply the current Jul 12 19:16:50 Depends on their system. Jul 12 19:16:58 DocScrutinizer: at 0Hz iddle Jul 12 19:17:01 idle* Jul 12 19:17:08 I have one drill that the ebay seller diddn't collect payment for. Jul 12 19:17:08 Which was odd. Jul 12 19:17:11 (32mm*40cm SDS) Jul 12 19:17:12 to just keep ram running Jul 12 19:17:19 jacekowski: bupbats have some 100R impedance Jul 12 19:17:29 SpeedEvil: maybe they got into a car accident and died Jul 12 19:17:30 and <3V Jul 12 19:17:58 Macer: Shipped product, did not request payment. Jul 12 19:18:31 uhm. aren't you supposed to pay them while they ship it? Jul 12 19:18:32 :) Jul 12 19:18:34 thief! Jul 12 19:19:15 SpeedEvil: got my query? Jul 12 19:19:19 If they wish to send me free stuff, I'm not going to chase. Jul 12 19:19:39 DocScrutinizer: no. I woke up after the bank branch had shut. Stupid half-days. Jul 12 19:19:54 SpeedEvil: it was probably not free :) Jul 12 19:19:57 you just didn't pay Jul 12 19:20:06 so you got the query, but not the call? Jul 12 19:20:19 i want meego to be awesome for my n900 already Jul 12 19:20:20 heh Jul 12 19:22:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysb8L139vaI Jul 12 19:22:54 talk about rough around the edges Jul 12 19:23:28 the end where it seriously crashes out was kind of funny Jul 12 19:25:31 can I execute command when I login to ash (launch xterm). I want it to execute bash so that my login shell from xterm would be always bash Jul 12 19:25:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1hI1BI_Ua8 Jul 12 19:25:57 LOL!! Jul 12 19:26:01 petteri: chsh Jul 12 19:26:19 greghaynes: ? Jul 12 19:26:27 Run it, it changes your shell Jul 12 19:27:09 ok. I want to change only the shell for interactive logins, so that I wont mess my n900, does it do that Jul 12 19:27:55 hmm, Jul 12 19:28:06 MOV r0,#0 Jul 12 19:28:08 Not sure what you mean by that Jul 12 19:28:18 FDIV r0,r1,r0 Jul 12 19:28:19 chsh will screw your system Jul 12 19:28:22 what would hapen? Jul 12 19:28:29 Oh, it didnt seem to on mine.. Jul 12 19:28:36 It has for some people. Jul 12 19:28:40 Ill take your word for it though Jul 12 19:28:48 i mean, how does arm handle floating point divide by zero? Jul 12 19:28:52 I want only use bash when I log in with xterm Jul 12 19:29:44 Hrm, does ash handle alias? If so alias xterm -e bash IIRC Jul 12 19:30:19 that is an awesome video where the guy flashes Jul 12 19:30:22 :) Jul 12 19:30:24 jacekowski: probably like every other system Jul 12 19:30:33 hopefully in a year or so when my n900 is completely obsolete Jul 12 19:30:41 i can install meego on it Jul 12 19:30:45 nvm, that wont work Jul 12 19:30:46 N8 looks like a pretty nice phone Jul 12 19:30:47 * greghaynes gives up Jul 12 19:31:04 although i'm not a big symbian fan Jul 12 19:31:10 what kind of kernel is symbian based on? Jul 12 19:31:31 kernel? Jul 12 19:31:42 Macer: Linux Jul 12 19:31:46 mh Jul 12 19:31:49 oh, symbian, though meego Jul 12 19:31:54 so how do I delete a package from extras-devel?= Jul 12 19:32:19 Tooo bad the aava isnt out yet, it looks not bad for running meego Jul 12 19:32:24 ping X-Fade Jul 12 19:33:14 there is no way to delete Jul 12 19:33:19 aha Jul 12 19:33:31 afaik Jul 12 19:33:45 bash-setup does work Jul 12 19:33:46 X-Fade: the package "maemoreactor" is now obsolete as I changed the name and rebuilt the package under a different name. Jul 12 19:33:48 and doesn't screw up the phone Jul 12 19:33:50 afaik Jul 12 19:34:07 the window switching in meego is fucking awesome btw Jul 12 19:34:15 ok so I did echo "/bin/bash" >> .profile I hope that wont mess anything Jul 12 19:34:24 heh Jul 12 19:34:29 that will fuck up everything if bash runs .profile Jul 12 19:34:31 and i think it does Jul 12 19:34:36 you want .ashrc Jul 12 19:34:42 or just run bash-setup Jul 12 19:34:45 you bet Jul 12 19:34:47 hah, I wonder it it catches the loop Jul 12 19:35:04 bash dont run .profile Jul 12 19:35:24 greghaynes: linux? Jul 12 19:35:26 works fine, but if there is .ashrc I will put it there Jul 12 19:35:33 i thought symbian was some sort of proprietary kernel from nokia Jul 12 19:35:36 petteri: remove that Jul 12 19:35:39 and run bash-setup Jul 12 19:35:41 Macer: I thought you were asking about meego for some reason, I actually have no idea Jul 12 19:35:53 chsh won't fuck things up if /bin/bash is in /etc/shells and you only run it as user Jul 12 19:36:43 Maybe people were running it without bash installed and saying it caused errors, which would definitely happen Jul 12 19:37:24 hmmm. .ashrc is not read by ash Jul 12 19:38:02 bash WILL read /etc/profile. A bash invoked as sh will also read ~/.profile Jul 12 19:38:40 So my latest Maemo update tells me it can't install over-the-air and I need to connect to a PC running Windows... but I don't have a PC running Windows. Am I stuffed? Nobody mentioned requiring Windows when I bought the phone. Jul 12 19:39:20 hah Jul 12 19:39:29 int he video he flashed meego and it ran bash Jul 12 19:39:29 :) Jul 12 19:39:30 PerfDave, no you don't Jul 12 19:39:34 awesome Jul 12 19:39:55 infact, the windows flasher is somewhat crappier than the commandline one Jul 12 19:40:38 ShadowJK: OK, so what do I do to install the update? Jul 12 19:40:46 PerfDave: that's just Nokia's way to let you know they think you're an idiot Jul 12 19:40:49 PerfDave: Jul 12 19:40:50 ~flashing Jul 12 19:40:52 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 12 19:41:09 DocScrutinizer: When it comes to my N900 I *am* an idiot Jul 12 19:41:47 download a meego kickstart file? Jul 12 19:41:52 wtf Jul 12 19:42:12 ooh, an amiga fan Jul 12 19:42:35 for renaming a forum thread, who'd I ask best? Jul 12 19:42:37 the windows tool also forces some nasty EULA on you.. the UNIX version does not, so UNIX users have more legal freedom Jul 12 19:42:41 DocScrutinizer: well, i think i know why it's not using FDIV Jul 12 19:42:52 DocScrutinizer: and it seems like it's something with gcc Jul 12 19:43:09 jacekowski: I couldn't care less Jul 12 19:43:22 PerfDave, btw I recommend making a backup first Jul 12 19:43:52 I wonder who's been so daft to use float in bme anyway Jul 12 19:43:55 hi Jul 12 19:44:22 bash refuses to read the .bashrc when invoked from osso-xterm, can i change this behavior? Jul 12 19:44:34 osso-xterm and bash is open source Jul 12 19:44:35 go nuts Jul 12 19:44:55 DocScrutinizer: because then you can just multiply/divide by some number and end up with voltage Jul 12 19:44:56 jacekowski: I mean, check ShadowJK's or my bq27k-detail.sh script. Do you see floats used? Jul 12 19:45:08 DocScrutinizer: instead voltage multipled by whatever Jul 12 19:45:09 Stskeeps: Thanks, I'll bear that in mind Jul 12 19:45:33 jacekowski: that's nonsense. Go back to school! Jul 12 19:45:48 FIQ: the .bashrc file is read in the root account.. i've verified that Jul 12 19:46:07 nah Jul 12 19:46:10 FIQ: but i think there's an issue w/ user accounts.. my user account doesn't seem to read it Jul 12 19:46:13 ints can only hold ints Jul 12 19:46:23 so what? Jul 12 19:46:24 so you would have to keep value in milivolts for example Jul 12 19:46:25 well, starting bash within bash does read it, but not from osso-xterm Jul 12 19:46:27 instead of volts Jul 12 19:46:36 so what? Jul 12 19:46:45 and i don't feel like running bash each time i start the shell. :P Jul 12 19:46:49 How can I specify that my package conflicts with another package? Jul 12 19:46:59 hey all Jul 12 19:47:12 well that's fine because I think in mV too :-) Jul 12 19:47:18 * DocScrutinizer recommends to jacekowski to learn COBOL Jul 12 19:47:50 9(8) DISP Jul 12 19:48:02 i had to make one program in cobol Jul 12 19:48:12 don't remind me it Jul 12 19:48:15 why is OOo's splash screen... slanted? Jul 12 19:49:04 ooo exists on the NIT? that's a scarey thought Jul 12 19:49:30 it's not as bloated as ms office, but still pretty bloated for a NIT, I would think Jul 12 19:49:53 OOo can be runned within easy debian Jul 12 19:49:57 I wrote it in bash, it only has integer arithmetic. Using that to unpack the various 4bit usigned, 3 bit unsigned etc ints packed into bytes and then the math to convert to a SI unit is just integer arithmetic was a fun excercise :D Jul 12 19:50:06 nobody ever uses computational (== float) in COBOL. Still they manage trillions $ with 0.01ct accuracy, and without problems of values been shown in millicent Jul 12 19:50:28 DocScrutinizer: Cobol hackers make filthy amounts of money these days =) Jul 12 19:50:38 the few that are still around =) Jul 12 19:50:45 ugh COBOL.. Jul 12 19:50:49 tybollt: WHERE????? Jul 12 19:51:09 When you do it ints you have to consider things that ruin precision (things that ruin meaningful precision with floats too) :-) Jul 12 19:51:20 ShadowJK: use bc Jul 12 19:51:41 jacekowski: BS Jul 12 19:51:53 ShadowJK: people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/bq27k-detail Jul 12 19:51:55 ehh Jul 12 19:51:56 I got spanked for #!/bin/bash Jul 12 19:51:57 echo " *7.14 / 20 = " $(( `pv 0x79` * 714 / 2000)) "mA " Jul 12 19:52:11 ah Jul 12 19:52:12 nvm Jul 12 19:52:30 I don't need bc :P Jul 12 19:52:36 jacekowski: see??!!! Jul 12 19:53:01 jacekowski: hanks for quoting a nice example how to deal with that Jul 12 19:53:04 ;-P= Jul 12 19:53:13 btw a brilliant author Jul 12 19:53:30 you see Jul 12 19:53:35 value in miliamps Jul 12 19:53:36 I'd rather pass it on to a separate awk script for doing some more processing, but the basic data acquisition talking to hw should be as simple as possible Jul 12 19:53:53 instead of amps Jul 12 19:54:02 jacekowski: you're kinda stubborn, really Jul 12 19:54:23 I'm sure even Electrical Engineers (which I am not) think in mA ;p Jul 12 19:55:28 mm, anyone with a n810 standing by who wants to test an image for me? Jul 12 19:55:34 ShadowJK: and inserting a decimal . somewhere in that value, to make jacekowski happy, is a warmup for first class CS students Jul 12 19:55:38 you need a 2gb minisd you can wipe Jul 12 19:56:08 Stskeeps: lemme find a 2GB. I'll come back when succeed Jul 12 19:56:16 ShadowJK: well, i ussualy deal with devices that have currents in kA Jul 12 19:56:23 4gb also good Jul 12 19:56:28 ShadowJK: mA are kinda to small for me Jul 12 19:58:52 uA Jul 12 20:00:03 As long at you dont reach megaamps you can store in mA and display as kA Jul 12 20:00:48 32 bit microamps is suitable for most computers Jul 12 20:01:18 echo " *7.14 / 20 = " $(( `pv 0x79` * 714 / 2000000)) "." $(( (`pv 0x79` * 714 / 2000) - ( `pv 0x79` * 714 / 2000000 * 1000 )) "Ampere " -- STFU Jul 12 20:02:50 but you have to divide it 2 times Jul 12 20:02:56 DocScrutinizer: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=5508&postcount=47 Jul 12 20:03:00 with floats you could do it only one time Jul 12 20:03:24 jacekowski: sorry, I refuse to answer that Jul 12 20:04:14 proof of concept software rendering meego handset ux on a Nokia N810 (rootfs+kernel), http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=5508&postcount=47 Jul 12 20:04:30 Stskeeps: sorry, no flasher available atm Jul 12 20:04:32 k Jul 12 20:07:35 i just want to state this - QTIRRECO FTW Jul 12 20:07:47 it just needs a way to scale down buttons Jul 12 20:07:57 well it doesn't work for me Jul 12 20:07:59 yea buttons are too big Jul 12 20:08:25 also feels like whenever I click them the buttons are dragged Jul 12 20:24:55 hm.. Jul 12 20:25:26 dotblank[laptop]: agreed, weird drag-behavior when clicking Jul 12 20:25:28 I'm guessing when a Li-Po feels soft, it's best to put it somewhere fireproof Jul 12 20:28:27 li-po? Jul 12 20:29:09 Lithium Polymer battery Jul 12 20:30:03 it's feeling... soft? Jul 12 20:30:30 yes Jul 12 20:31:01 woah, *not* a good sign there Jul 12 20:31:16 ShadowJK: swolen? Jul 12 20:31:17 I thought it looked a bit thicker than the other of same make and model, so when I picked it up it felt distinctively soft Jul 12 20:31:30 Yeah a bit Jul 12 20:31:41 the contents feels gasseous Jul 12 20:31:49 'lo all Jul 12 20:31:51 SO not a good sign Jul 12 20:32:08 Indeed :-) Jul 12 20:32:47 got one BL-5C fake here. Got pregnant when I was heating it to test BSI NTC. Got really hot. Now it's feeling "soft" like a balloon since 6 months Jul 12 20:33:02 well, one bloke at work was using phone with swolen battery for about 6 months Jul 12 20:33:22 not this one, it's electrically dead Jul 12 20:33:39 well, it was close to dead Jul 12 20:33:41 DocScrutinizer: i'd throw it away Jul 12 20:33:43 but it's just me Jul 12 20:33:49 I only noticed my N810's poorly performing batt was swollen when I got a new one ;p Jul 12 20:34:14 should i get some cheap ebay batteries for my n900? Jul 12 20:34:16 hmm, my flat burned down one time. Lightning won't strike twice same spot Jul 12 20:34:38 that better not have been battery or freerunner related Jul 12 20:34:39 :P Jul 12 20:35:21 Naah. Mobs with pitchforks and torches, I'm guessing. Jul 12 20:35:23 that's been charger/battery related for sure. But probably cheap desktop vacuum with NiMH cells Jul 12 20:36:04 NiMH are much more dangerous than LiXX I'd say Jul 12 20:36:08 I had a nimh battery melt down on me once ;p Jul 12 20:36:20 yeah, real fun Jul 12 20:36:30 Dodgy cell from Lidl in known cheapass charger :D Jul 12 20:37:12 hmm, same like that 27EUR hand vacuum with cells and 'charger' Jul 12 20:38:33 The charger's mosfets are constantly near that point where they're too hot to shut down, and the tronic(lidl) cell had huge internal resistance out of the box.. the charger missed termination, and then when it reached the point of thermal shutdown, the mosfets were too hot, and it conitnued to dump several amps into it Jul 12 20:38:58 until the plastic battery holder melted and thus physically severed the connection ;p Jul 12 20:39:26 too hot to shut down? Jul 12 20:39:30 Oh - you mean leakage Jul 12 20:39:38 mhm. A Siemens Gigaset DECT had similar issue for me once Jul 12 20:39:50 probably Jul 12 20:40:28 though the vacuum had no mosfets or any similar shit, I'm rather sure all silicon it had was a diode bridge Jul 12 20:40:46 I have a teeny thing that goes 'BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP' at ~35C. Jul 12 20:40:48 aah, and a LED Jul 12 20:41:04 I put it in the right place on battery packs that are under charge Jul 12 20:41:17 Well in theory you can charge nimh indefinitely at .1C Jul 12 20:41:24 does wonders for the longevity os suff on really cheap chargers Jul 12 20:41:24 anyway my bookshelf is gone since =-( Jul 12 20:42:41 I need to get a big hobby charger now Jul 12 20:42:46 I want to blow up this ballooning pack Jul 12 20:43:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU Jul 12 20:43:41 I've stopped that recharge hobby since. All my devices that use AA(A) are living >12 months with primary cells. NiMH are empty on self discharge after 2 months Jul 12 20:44:05 hah Jul 12 20:44:11 Not eneloops :-) Jul 12 20:44:12 i think i sorted my scratchbox problem Jul 12 20:44:15 DocScrutinizer: eneloops are good Jul 12 20:44:16 vdso Jul 12 20:44:24 DocScrutinizer: i use eneloop everywhere and be happy Jul 12 20:45:12 DocScrutinizer: that's partialy because of higher voltage in AA Jul 12 20:45:21 i mean i normal primary cells Jul 12 20:45:35 so charge density is a lot higher Jul 12 20:45:36 That's a bit of a myth anyway Jul 12 20:45:50 well, charge density IS higher Jul 12 20:46:10 If you draw <.05C, sure Jul 12 20:46:33 and internal resistance is lower Jul 12 20:46:43 lol? Jul 12 20:47:03 nimh internal resistance is much lower than alkaline's Jul 12 20:48:29 gunh. the e-mail widget has some serious problems being consistent about showing unread mail on GMail. Jul 12 20:48:33 'normal' primaries have very, very few edges left over eneloop cells. Jul 12 20:48:38 Lower weight is about it Jul 12 20:49:31 in tv remotes and clocks they can win Jul 12 20:50:09 ZnCl are actually even better for that - if you can find the low-drain ones. Jul 12 20:50:14 Which you usually can't. Jul 12 20:52:53 this is possibly the worst form of nerdom, btw Jul 12 20:52:58 battery nerds Jul 12 20:53:47 my battery died when it missed a saving throw. Jul 12 20:54:21 (battery nerd + D&D nerd = someone's gonna die) Jul 12 20:55:11 kerio: when you see nerds in the hardware store buying power packs for powertools, you know they're just going to tear it apart to harvest the battery cells inside ;-) Jul 12 20:56:08 ShadowJK: or they have a first date coming up, and the power tools are camouflage. Jul 12 20:57:08 ShadowJK: i'm a computer nerd Jul 12 20:57:14 i don't go in stores Jul 12 20:57:57 how does the N900 handle speed-dial for pizza joints? Jul 12 20:58:17 i don't call Jul 12 20:58:23 ;) Jul 12 20:58:38 i jumped into swimming pool with the N900 in my pocket Jul 12 20:58:48 congrats Jul 12 20:58:55 red: you... monster Jul 12 20:58:59 so I jump boat and ordered HTC Desire x) Jul 12 20:59:04 ._. Jul 12 20:59:16 Make sure to also bathe your HTC Jul 12 20:59:33 should've just removed the battery and washed it with distilled water Jul 12 20:59:36 nothing wrong with maemo, but want capacitive and less bulk in pocket :) Jul 12 20:59:54 bulk in pocket is for real men! Jul 12 20:59:57 kerio: i was in greece, in the water a lot of chlorium and chalk Jul 12 21:00:06 kerio: ssshhhhh. Maybe he's selling it for low price Jul 12 21:00:32 ill mail it free if someone wants to have a go fixing it after I ask my friends first :P Jul 12 21:00:51 i'll take it! Jul 12 21:01:05 inside the screen can still see moist and it smells foul, a bit like the pool Jul 12 21:01:11 nice Jul 12 21:01:16 it was 2nd day of a weekss trip when it fell Jul 12 21:01:25 so im quite sure its wasted for good :D Jul 12 21:01:32 :( Jul 12 21:01:39 my n900 is not fetching dns for wifi, at least it's not updating /etc/resolv.conf Jul 12 21:01:51 but atleast someone might use the case later on or something Jul 12 21:01:52 kaie: it doesn't Jul 12 21:02:21 asj__, where's dns information recorded? "host domain.com" doesn't work in terminal Jul 12 21:02:56 kaie: look in the file, it's 127.0.0.1. You can set custom dns servers in network setup. Jul 12 21:04:45 asj__, I modified resolv.conf a week ago for a hack ad-hoc network. I emptied the resolv.conf now. For my current location, I don't want to specify the dns manually, but have configured wifi to fetch it automatically, but still, resolv.conf doesn't get updated. so I want to know, how to make that work again Jul 12 21:05:16 you say I should configure manually to 127.0.0.1 ? Jul 12 21:05:19 kaie: oh, I didn't realize you screwed it up, set the nameserver to 127.0.0.1 Jul 12 21:05:24 ok Jul 12 21:07:35 MohammadAG51: ping Jul 12 21:07:36 thanks a lot, it's working again, after I added "namserver 127.0.0.1". Jul 12 21:07:45 nameserver even Jul 12 21:08:24 'Afternoon. Anybody around with knowledge of BlueZ? Jul 12 21:27:49 exit Jul 12 21:28:12 curious, my N900 is off Jul 12 21:31:28 now it says Battery Low Jul 12 21:31:30 wtf Jul 12 21:31:33 it's been on the charger the whole time Jul 12 21:31:40 i had that Jul 12 21:31:50 it sometimes doesn't charge Jul 12 21:32:27 but i think charging itself should be handled in kernel Jul 12 21:33:59 there finally got it to say Charging Jul 12 21:36:32 X-Fade: are you there? Jul 12 22:03:11 DocScrutinizer: how are your projects progressing? Jul 12 22:24:23 Beautiful day everyone Jul 12 22:24:40 Finally more of D-Iivil's themes have hit the extras repositories! :) Jul 12 22:25:40 What is otherwise new here today? Jul 12 22:26:33 DrGrov, I have a headache starting. Jul 12 22:26:37 Aside from that...? Jul 12 22:26:57 I haven't looked at those themes yet. Maybe I should... Jul 12 22:26:59 jaem: oh, that's not too nice. got something to take for it? Jul 12 22:27:09 jaem: they are absolutely beautiful. Jul 12 22:27:18 unfortunately not every theme has a screenshot. i wonder why? Jul 12 22:27:44 Not here. Ah well, it's not bad anyway. Looking over the new Qt Mobility stuff in GIT master is making me feel better. Jul 12 22:28:05 Good, have you drank enough water if it is hot there? Jul 12 22:28:24 I think I will go with D-THEME UnderConstruction Jul 12 22:28:27 That might be part of it. Jul 12 22:29:25 You have any idea why not all the themes don't have a screenshot? Jul 12 22:30:12 Let me take a look... Do you mean the thumbnail in HAM, or on the website? Jul 12 22:30:27 In the website, http://maemo.org/downloads/updated/Maemo5/25/ Jul 12 22:32:07 so my mission to overclock my n810 is comming along fine , altough i had to drop some cabage to see if i was on the right track. for a sinopsys of how im doing look at this page under dochez http://code.google.com/p/milestone-overclock/wiki/Donate Jul 12 22:32:56 http://www.dataviz.com/purchase/upgrade/documentstogo/maemo/index.html it sucks! Jul 12 22:33:44 jaem: PM here in the channel when you know :) No hurries, I go back to Splinter Cell: Conviction on the Xbox 360 until I get some missions done Jul 12 22:34:21 Why do the fremantle repositories have such an ancient (v2.05b when v4.x is current) version of bash? (fail) Jul 12 22:34:54 brolin_empey: So build 4 Jul 12 22:35:13 typically later versions bloat lots Jul 12 22:35:17 so that can be a reason Jul 12 22:35:26 hi SpeedEvil Jul 12 22:35:38 heh Jul 12 22:35:45 hi Jul 12 22:35:59 gnome has expanded 2x in the past year and a half it seams Jul 12 22:36:05 *seems Jul 12 22:36:17 For desktops this is less of an issue Jul 12 22:36:26 true Jul 12 22:36:32 But for trying to run stuff on labels. Jul 12 22:36:35 hey hello i need help Jul 12 22:36:45 err Jul 12 22:36:47 on mobiles Jul 12 22:37:04 n900 died trying to get it into r & D mode but i only have ubuntu 64 bitand win 7 64 bit Jul 12 22:37:12 gnome still runs fine on my N900 :) Jul 12 22:37:20 hmm Jul 12 22:37:22 Pauly, you can run the flasher on 64-bit Ubuntu... it just takes some twiddling Jul 12 22:37:33 oh ok Jul 12 22:37:35 Pauly, First of all, make sure you have the package ia32-libs installed Jul 12 22:37:42 cause i just need to charge it Jul 12 22:37:54 I think that's what it's called - I don't have an *buntu box in front of me (literally or figuratively) Jul 12 22:38:13 omg thanks. im check synaptic Jul 12 22:38:43 Pauly, I know I went through some hassle last time I need that - Ubuntu isn't well set up for installing 32-bit stuff on 64-bit - at least, not as well some distros. Jul 12 22:39:06 my phone died and i read on bugzilla if u can put it on r & D mode it'll charge Jul 12 22:39:14 What happened originally? Jul 12 22:39:35 Pauly: it should charge anyway. Plug into charger overnight Jul 12 22:39:42 feel asleep and phone drianed bateery Jul 12 22:39:54 Pauly, ping me once you have the package installed Jul 12 22:40:01 N900 - you better not fall asleep Jul 12 22:40:11 u sure cause it just glows orangeish yellow Jul 12 22:40:21 lmao Jul 12 22:40:25 Pauly: that's the failsafe charge Jul 12 22:40:31 it'll charge for half an hour Jul 12 22:40:39 it should be enough to boot it at that point Jul 12 22:40:52 if it isn't, charge it again, when it stops charging remove the charger and plug it again Jul 12 22:40:52 its not i'll try agian Jul 12 22:41:02 ya thats what im doing Jul 12 22:41:06 * PerfDave ponders running a 32-bit GNU/Linux VM to run the flasher Jul 12 22:41:20 PerfDave: dual boot! Jul 12 22:41:35 but i read r & D mode the keyboard light flickers, which is so cool Jul 12 22:41:39 http://lubi.sourceforge.net/ Jul 12 22:42:22 Pauly: also uses more battery Jul 12 22:42:35 kerio: Why dual boot when you can use a VM? Jul 12 22:42:37 figured Jul 12 22:43:12 kerio, jaem, i found that i have the package installed ia32-libs Jul 12 22:44:14 Pauly: R&D for charging is BS Jul 12 22:44:19 Pauly, okay... well, download the flasher DEB and stash it somewhere. Jul 12 22:44:41 Pauly: DO NOT try to flash with low battery Jul 12 22:44:57 i tihnk i might download the flasher, ut it into r & d mode anyways cause i think im gonna reflash it to save battery life so i need the flasher anyways Jul 12 22:45:08 Pauly: by all and any means charge your battery before flashing Jul 12 22:45:20 refkash it to save battery life? Jul 12 22:45:33 no im not going to flash just put it into r & D mode and let it sit. Jul 12 22:45:34 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Jul 12 22:45:51 absolute nonsense Jul 12 22:46:02 sorry? Jul 12 22:46:03 SpeedEvil: well, you can flash a bigger battery Jul 12 22:46:04 :P Jul 12 22:46:11 R&D mode just helps if you got bootloop which also will hinder charging Jul 12 22:46:45 flash a bigger battery - what? Jul 12 22:46:49 i read on bugzilla that if u put it into r & D it'll charge off usb? Jul 12 22:47:08 SpeedEvil: just reflash an image with a bigger battery! Jul 12 22:47:12 it works, right? Jul 12 22:47:32 i'm looking for a build with a c-ts Jul 12 22:47:40 Pauly: it always charges from USB, there's no other way to charge Jul 12 22:47:41 and less weight Jul 12 22:47:42 You can actually get ~3% more life from lying to BME, or replacing it. Jul 12 22:48:02 kerio: stop that nonsense Jul 12 22:48:17 SpeedEvil: I actually already have bash v4.x in Easy Debian. bash v2.05b has been sufficient for me so far, even though I have used bash v3.x features in scripts I have written for Debian/Ubuntu on desktops, but I do not need to run those scripts on my N900. I was just wondering why the fremantle repositories still have such an ancient version of bash. Jul 12 22:48:56 i wonder... could we save weight by having some helium balloons inside the n900? Jul 12 22:49:06 kerio, it doesn't work that way >_< Jul 12 22:49:14 2. Use the flasher to put it into RD Mode 3. This allowed it to boot it up 4. Let it sit charging connected to my computer. (Very Important!!! Appears this was what was needed to get it to charge!) Jul 12 22:49:18 i figured :P Jul 12 22:49:26 brolin_empey: what are the binary sizes? Jul 12 22:49:30 Pauly: keyword being "appeared" Jul 12 22:49:33 Pauly: use the Nokia wallcharger, and charge your battery. There's no reason to set R&D mode unless you got a bootloop Jul 12 22:49:34 it's false Jul 12 22:49:43 oh okay Jul 12 22:50:06 thanks for helping me guys Jul 12 22:50:12 Pauly: that's random noise Jul 12 22:50:15 I don't know how the N900's audio subsystem works, but how hard would it be to patch various things together - say, to pipe espeak's output into a phone call or some such? Jul 12 22:50:16 i thought my phone wasnt charging Jul 12 22:50:31 For that matter, what should I read up on if I want to understand what it's doing in general? Jul 12 22:50:37 Pauly: if yellow light then charging in progress Jul 12 22:50:39 you know, charging issues tend to come up a lot here on #maemo Jul 12 22:51:56 lol, well i'll just plug it in the wall charger, and once light goes off unplug and plug back in. Jul 12 22:52:52 btw its not oem charger, just random micro usb wall charger. Thanks so much guys. Jul 12 22:53:25 Pauly: random usb charger won't probably work Jul 12 22:53:58 jaem, it's Telepathy and PulseAudio for the most part. Jul 12 22:54:02 Pauly: use the original Nokia charger Jul 12 22:54:05 seems to charge it, when it's on. Jul 12 22:54:26 i bought it used, no nokia charger Jul 12 22:54:29 Pauly: guess what the keyword here is Jul 12 22:54:32 :) Jul 12 22:54:58 kerio: so lost???? Jul 12 22:55:13 the keyword here is "seems" Jul 12 22:55:17 GAN900, Alrighty, I'll take a look. Jul 12 22:55:54 kerio: ya, my stuff is always ghetto for some reason. Jul 12 22:57:39 Is there any way to get HAM to always show the package name itself, rather than the more "friendly" format it tends to use? Jul 12 22:57:50 if iight is on it's charging so i'll just leave it in and see what happens. oh btw i bought a battery charger off ebay so i won't have this problem no more. Jul 12 22:58:18 Since it lacks queueing, I tend to do a lot of "look in HAM/use apt-get". Jul 12 22:58:33 I know I can use apt-cache, but I like HAM for browsing and at-a-glance info. Jul 12 22:59:41 jaem: use fapman Jul 12 22:59:43 *way* faster Jul 12 22:59:46 and supports queuing Jul 12 22:59:51 queueing Jul 12 22:59:55 queues Jul 12 23:00:02 kerio, yeah, the disclaimer had me rather excited to try it. ;) Jul 12 23:00:14 The sad part is I'm not actually kidding... Jul 12 23:00:18 Pauly: when steady yellow you'll either get 500mA charging from a proper charger, or 100mA charging from arbitrary charger. Both limited to 32 minutes. With 100mA you'll need several replug&32min harge cycles, to push battery up to the point where you can boot again Jul 12 23:00:55 DocScrutinizer: hmm... could you use a computer, forcing it to give the 500mA? Jul 12 23:01:08 kerio: nope Jul 12 23:01:20 DocScrutinizer: thanks, perfect info i needed Jul 12 23:01:41 so at least i know it is charging Jul 12 23:01:51 for emergency charging there's no diff tween computer and a wrong charger that doesn't have D+/- short Jul 12 23:02:27 DocScrutinizer: lol ya, should i buy the oem nokia charger Jul 12 23:02:28 ? Jul 12 23:02:58 Pauly: either that, or make sure it has a short of the two datalines Jul 12 23:03:40 * jaem waves at pinheiro Jul 12 23:03:54 DocScrutinizer: since i have no idea what the second option means, ill go with the first. Jul 12 23:03:55 Pauly: N900 senses fastcharger via a short of the both middle contacts of USB Jul 12 23:04:13 oh ok Jul 12 23:04:15 Pauly: not many chargers have that feature Jul 12 23:04:20 jaem: heya Jul 12 23:04:22 DocScrutinizer, Is it actually a dead short? I thought the spec said to add a low-valued resistor of some sort. Jul 12 23:04:34 DocScrutinizer: can you use a generic nokia charger with the provided adaptor? Jul 12 23:04:34 it's a short Jul 12 23:04:51 pinheiro, OT for here, but congrats to you & team on the new shininess. :D Jul 12 23:04:53 kerio: I'd guess yes Jul 12 23:04:59 for fastcharge/500mA failsafe charge Jul 12 23:05:04 yes Jul 12 23:05:10 that's probably a cheaper option Jul 12 23:05:22 ripoff nokia chargers are dime a dozen Jul 12 23:05:34 jaem: thanks :D Jul 12 23:05:42 Pauly: do you have the charger adaptor? Jul 12 23:05:53 no Jul 12 23:06:14 all i got was phone and "compatible charger" Jul 12 23:06:30 but i didnt really use it cause it seemd cheap. Jul 12 23:06:42 * pinheiro finds funy that jaem can be refering to multiple things "the advantages of working in tons of difrent projects" :D Jul 12 23:06:44 what a gyp Jul 12 23:06:56 kerio: should i use that one. Jul 12 23:06:59 DocScrutinizer, Hmm... I have an IOGear-brand Li-Ion external battery pack that won't charge my N900. I took a look inside it at some point, and D+/- weren't shorted - in fact, they had a few things connected to them, including a cap to ground, as I recall. It was hard to trace by eye, because the board was hand-soldered SMT - and not skillfully >_< Jul 12 23:07:17 pinheiro, Well, it's all good. :) Jul 12 23:08:06 DocScrutinizer, I think the battery pack may be in Fiji right now, but when I get it back, I might poke you about it. I'd really like to be able to use it if possible, but I fear that trying to "fix" it would be impractical. Jul 12 23:08:37 SpeedEvil: bash v2.05b is 612764 bytes, bash v4.1.0 in Easy Debian chroot image is 789896 bytes. Jul 12 23:08:55 jaem: as long as it supplies 5V... Jul 12 23:09:27 jaem: it's short with a pullup to ground or V+ but i'm not sure Jul 12 23:09:49 jacekowski: nope it's not Jul 12 23:10:33 jacekowski: in fact any pullup or pulldown may break the charger detection in 1707 Jul 12 23:10:53 let me just find the docs Jul 12 23:11:17 docs==1704 ds Jul 12 23:11:23 DocScrutinizer, It /should/ work fine in terms of the listed specs, but it doesn't seem to. Jul 12 23:11:56 I only had the Nokia-supplied microUSB cable to use with it - I don't suppose that would make any difference? Jul 12 23:12:09 shouldn't Jul 12 23:12:27 Just checking... It charges my N810 fine, as well as the odd other thing I've thrown at it. Jul 12 23:12:28 though I heard a report of a DOA nokia cable CA-101 Jul 12 23:12:52 The cable should be good - I had three at the time in any case, and used them interchangeably Jul 12 23:13:21 fscking protected PDF Jul 12 23:13:45 jacekowski, meh - use Okular - it has a checkbox for that. Jul 12 23:13:51 "Obey DRM Restrictions" Jul 12 23:13:53 * jaem unchecks Jul 12 23:14:08 nah Jul 12 23:14:10 jaem: HOW DARE YOU >:O Jul 12 23:14:11 >.> Jul 12 23:14:12 it's qt4 based Jul 12 23:14:20 i don't use qt4 Jul 12 23:14:28 because of what happened to amarok Jul 12 23:14:30 and kde4 Jul 12 23:14:34 pronto, I live in Canada! Circumventing DRM isn't a capital offense Jul 12 23:14:35 ...yet Jul 12 23:14:42 lol Jul 12 23:14:44 when both of theme were ported to qt4 Jul 12 23:14:54 so i just refuse to use qt4 based software Jul 12 23:15:04 anyways Jul 12 23:15:40 As shown above .... a dedicated chargin port is required to short the D+ and D- lines with a resistance of rdchg_dat Jul 12 23:16:02 so there has to be a resistor Jul 12 23:16:05 jacekowski: you're boring me Jul 12 23:16:14 im sleepy Jul 12 23:16:46 ive been sitting waiting for my phone to charge.......... Jul 12 23:16:55 hmm, RDCHG_DAT Jul 12 23:16:59 from 0 to 200 ohms Jul 12 23:17:13 see why you are boring? Jul 12 23:17:17 well, it looks like it's there to just take wire resistance into account Jul 12 23:17:42 jacekowski, Okay, that's what I was remembering. Jul 12 23:17:44 lol Jul 12 23:17:54 DocScrutinizer, did you see something to the contrary, then? Jul 12 23:18:15 moo Jul 12 23:18:21 DocScrutinizer: docz! Jul 12 23:18:32 jaem: RDCHRG_DAT=0..200R - a short is also a resistor Jul 12 23:18:40 raster: hi! Jul 12 23:18:44 ih Jul 12 23:19:13 DocScrutinizer, touche (invisible accent is invisible) Jul 12 23:19:22 so many people in this channel. Jul 12 23:19:50 its scary woaahh. Jul 12 23:20:43 i heart iOS 4 Jul 12 23:21:12 * DocScrutinizer afk Jul 12 23:21:14 i make jokes Jul 12 23:21:55 gonna eat something? lol i'll be back in 32 min. Jul 12 23:24:33 Pauly, we'll be timing you. Jul 12 23:24:37 ^^ Jul 12 23:24:37 Woe to you if you're late. Jul 12 23:25:43 Pauly: keep the dinner plate away from the lower left edge of your keyboard, or you'll ping out. Jul 12 23:28:11 pronto: ! Jul 12 23:28:14 pronto: fellow archer Jul 12 23:28:17 o= Jul 12 23:28:19 * pronto hides Jul 12 23:28:32 ;_; Jul 12 23:28:52 * pronto licks Shapeshifter Jul 12 23:29:10 no, pronto, sit. Jul 12 23:30:16 hey with pr1.2 in conversations I can "Join chat room" I wonder if irc would work better now Jul 12 23:30:53 asj, Quite possibly. Jul 12 23:31:05 I didn't even bother trying before... it kind of helps. Jul 12 23:34:51 SpeedEvil: speedie Jul 12 23:35:07 DocScrutinizer: how goes?> Jul 12 23:36:57 hello Jul 12 23:37:08 why does the screen light act funny @ #4? Jul 12 23:39:12 well mappero is kinda crashy Jul 12 23:39:20 reproducably crashy. Jul 12 23:40:03 any idea how to compile a script? Jul 12 23:40:11 for MaemoTurbo? Jul 12 23:40:12 What sort of script? Jul 12 23:40:17 a .sh Jul 12 23:40:30 i wanna debug a .deb Jul 12 23:41:03 got it? Jul 12 23:41:04 you don't compile sh's - you just run them Jul 12 23:41:08 oh Jul 12 23:41:11 yeh Jul 12 23:41:13 Dunno what maemoturbo is Jul 12 23:41:26 a minute, pls Jul 12 23:41:33 it's the vtec kicking in. Jul 12 23:45:17 back Jul 12 23:46:31 MaemoTurbo is ascript to optimize the kernel by itself, with some another modules, including a booster for swap files Jul 12 23:47:48 got it? Jul 12 23:48:15 starting with DiabloTurbo, a version for Diablo, availble on 2 languages Jul 12 23:49:15 and after a FreMantle Jul 12 23:49:40 and i just don't know how to make it as a .deb file Jul 12 23:49:45 to distribute Jul 12 23:56:32 Awesome it works like a charm Jul 12 23:57:16 hein? Jul 13 00:03:52 sorry asjN900, but i didn't get your point Jul 13 00:08:11 so quiet! We need more action! What time do you have more time to talk?? Maybe in the mid of afternoon? Jul 13 00:10:29 tuliobaars: ? Jul 13 00:11:48 what? Jul 13 00:11:52 tuliobaars: many people here are from Europe, and it's late at night there already Jul 13 00:12:00 ahh Jul 13 00:12:01 that's why this channel is usually quiet at this time Jul 13 00:12:08 hummm Jul 13 00:12:11 sorry Jul 13 00:12:33 Don't apologize, I am from Brazil. :P So, you got difficulties building a package? Jul 13 00:12:36 What are you using? Jul 13 00:13:02 My N810, why? Jul 13 00:13:13 oh, sorry Jul 13 00:13:23 i'm form Florianopolis! Jul 13 00:13:30 to develop your program Jul 13 00:13:39 Qt Creator? Scratchbox? Something else? Jul 13 00:13:47 Sctacthbox Jul 13 00:13:51 ouch Jul 13 00:14:21 I'm Brazillian too Jul 13 00:14:31 well, scratchbox is a complete Linux environment with all the packaging command-line tools you need... There are some guides on packaging Jul 13 00:15:32 yeah, but i guess i would have to rebuild my script instead of debbuging, or not? Jul 13 00:16:31 ? Jul 13 00:16:32 Not quite sure what you mean by that Jul 13 00:16:48 You would just aggregate all stuff needed to run it on an installable file Jul 13 00:17:42 oh, just get your point Jul 13 00:18:11 which one you prefer: Scratch box or Qt? Jul 13 00:19:19 Well, scratchbox is easier to use because it's a GNU/Linux environment and I am a long time user of GNU/Linux. But Qt Creator has lots of features and it's the future for Maemo/Meego, so I must get acquainted to it. Jul 13 00:20:06 I do not have a fixed opinion on that, though Jul 13 00:20:31 I'm trying to do stuff in Qt Creator, if it proves too difficult I'll resort to scratchbox Jul 13 00:20:35 or even command-line MADDE Jul 13 00:21:31 But you develop for FreMantle? Jul 13 00:23:19 hello Jul 13 00:23:31 cause my Scratchbox is a trash Jul 13 00:23:41 i can't do any bullshit Jul 13 00:23:57 Buggy as a wood Jul 13 00:24:19 my phone died and has been charging for an hour Jul 13 00:24:27 but stil wont turn on Jul 13 00:24:44 tried holding u and connecting to pc via usb Jul 13 00:24:57 and still it dont do nothing? Jul 13 00:24:57 pull the battery Jul 13 00:25:16 Reflash it Jul 13 00:25:23 he's trying to do that Jul 13 00:25:40 Hard Reset it Jul 13 00:25:42 least that's what it looks like :) Jul 13 00:25:48 im notr trying to reflash it, just want it on Jul 13 00:26:06 pauly: when you say died, what do you mean? Jul 13 00:26:13 i drained the battery last night, and now it wont turn on Jul 13 00:26:19 fell in the ocean with it and it died? Jul 13 00:26:21 oh ok Jul 13 00:26:24 lol Jul 13 00:26:36 pauly: is the orange led lit? Jul 13 00:26:40 ya Jul 13 00:26:44 been Jul 13 00:26:49 no, he jumped off a building using it Jul 13 00:27:12 lol ya i wanted to test the n900fly app Jul 13 00:27:17 pauly: blinking or steady? Jul 13 00:27:27 steady Jul 13 00:27:28 Rofl Jul 13 00:27:35 tuliobaars: actually I am trying :P Jul 13 00:27:56 Try to remove the battery and wait 15min. sharp Jul 13 00:28:05 really? Jul 13 00:28:06 pauly: I think someone mentioned, maybe SpeedEvil, or someone, that's the emergency trickle charge, only charges slowly at 100mA till it can boot Jul 13 00:28:10 after pull the battery, and dunnot turn on Jul 13 00:28:28 wait 5min to turn it on Jul 13 00:28:31 pauly: you might want to use it in an external recharger, or recharge it in a cellphone that uses the same battery Jul 13 00:28:35 asj: ya but its been a while? Jul 13 00:28:37 so its going to work Jul 13 00:29:01 pauly: it'll take a while, though I thought an hour should be enough Jul 13 00:29:09 i bought extrenal charger off ebay but that will take some time. Jul 13 00:29:19 no no, try to make a kinda reset on sys bios Jul 13 00:29:29 like what i said Jul 13 00:29:39 tuliobaars: you say lots of contradictory things Jul 13 00:29:43 lol Jul 13 00:29:55 i had this problem be4 Jul 13 00:30:01 pauly: how did you fix it? Jul 13 00:30:04 but i sold the other phone :( Jul 13 00:30:08 why, mister know everything? Jul 13 00:30:22 charged battery with other phone Jul 13 00:30:28 but now its gone Jul 13 00:30:30 its just how i resolve this Jul 13 00:30:50 so leave it without battery Jul 13 00:31:08 pauly: why don't you have a normal wallwart? Jul 13 00:31:10 for 15 min till i gues bios resets? Jul 13 00:31:12 batterys cost like 3 bucks Jul 13 00:31:18 really? Jul 13 00:31:22 simple as life: remove the battery, wait 15 min, put the battery again and its done Jul 13 00:31:36 yeah, like desktops Jul 13 00:31:50 same way Jul 13 00:31:50 pauly: can't hurt anyways Jul 13 00:31:56 try Jul 13 00:31:59 asj: thanks Jul 13 00:32:08 but i do want another battery Jul 13 00:32:09 (and no it's not like desktops) Jul 13 00:32:28 so wallmart would have this, i went to best buy and like 3 t-mobile stores Jul 13 00:32:34 OK. Just my device is like. All others no. Jul 13 00:32:35 pauly: I'm not a fan of the $3 batteries Jul 13 00:32:59 i didn't know this existed Jul 13 00:33:09 try to do this Jul 13 00:33:14 $3 battery Jul 13 00:33:18 i bought one on e bay it works but there is a certain brand you have to get Jul 13 00:33:18 is simple and easy Jul 13 00:33:41 also battery chargers Jul 13 00:33:46 pauly: between the potential for fire, and the fact that I keep my phone in my pocket beside my nuts and ride a motorcycle and can't expell the flaming device quickly enough and the trashed n900 why not spend a bit more and get a real one :) Jul 13 00:33:50 cheep Jul 13 00:34:00 lol Jul 13 00:34:04 uprotected chinese batteries are very cheap ;) Jul 13 00:34:09 unprotected* Jul 13 00:34:18 well battery has been out of phone since u told me to do so Jul 13 00:35:04 but if wallmart has a bateery for 3 bucks i feel i should go and try it out. Jul 13 00:35:12 according to talk.maemo.org threads, tuliobaars's strategy might work: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38961 Jul 13 00:35:27 I'd be surprised if Walmart carried a battery that worked with the N900 Jul 13 00:35:28 the protection is built into the phone , unlike the ones i used in a flashlight Jul 13 00:35:31 "Try to take out the battery for a while, then press and hold the power button for 30 seconds or so.. Wait a bit then plug the battery back in.. Then hook the charger back into the N900 and see what happens.. Hope this works out for you! " Jul 13 00:35:43 smackpotato: there are circuits in most decent Li-ION batteries Jul 13 00:35:46 so, are you going to try this way? I just wanna help... this works in most cases Jul 13 00:36:19 HAHAHA. WHAT I HAVE SAID, ASJ? Jul 13 00:36:50 pauly: you've confused wallwart with wallmart. When charging the n900/battery normally a dedicated charger wallwart works quickest. One should have come with the n900 Jul 13 00:37:07 TAAKE OUT THE BATTERY AND WAIT, SO PLUG AGAIN Jul 13 00:37:12 SORRY Jul 13 00:37:12 chill dude Jul 13 00:37:15 im waiting Jul 13 00:37:28 tuliobaars: dooode, you tunneling pupnik? Jul 13 00:37:35 been waiting..... Jul 13 00:37:49 im chill i think lol sry for being a retard Jul 13 00:38:55 microlith now. i didn't realize that i bought som li-ion for a flashlight they just discharged below the minimum charge never to be charged a gain Jul 13 00:39:03 so, um hows the weather, it rained here today. Jul 13 00:39:14 pauly: you're not being annoying :) Jul 13 00:39:30 asj: thanks Jul 13 00:39:31 what asj? Jul 13 00:39:56 asj is that's persons irc nickname lol Jul 13 00:40:11 pauly: hmm? Jul 13 00:40:31 " what asj?" Jul 13 00:40:32 so confusing Jul 13 00:40:51 yeah, what he said! Jul 13 00:40:52 asj: mine came w/ a Europe wallwart :( Jul 13 00:40:58 lol Jul 13 00:41:07 luke-jr: you also got yours for free :) Jul 13 00:41:14 true :) Jul 13 00:41:28 luke-jr: plus ratshack sells the little converters for like $3 Jul 13 00:41:33 any idea how many people actually use Gentoo on N900? Jul 13 00:41:34 mine came with a "compatible" charger, bought it off ebay for $365 used Jul 13 00:42:15 pauly: I wonder if that isn't helping, if you look at it what's the output current rated at? Jul 13 00:43:01 so asj, i thiink the answers were almost the same Jul 13 00:43:16 i think Jul 13 00:43:30 or any idea where to find the N900 kernel .config? Jul 13 00:43:32 PR1.2 Jul 13 00:43:45 hold on brb going to downstairs laptop Jul 13 00:44:27 luke-jr: it should come in the kernel tarball, if you pull it down via the SDK Jul 13 00:44:33 microlith: where? Jul 13 00:44:52 I tried rx51_defconfig, but that has netfilter enabled (whereas the running one doesn't...) Jul 13 00:44:56 not sure where, I just did an apt-get in scratchbox Jul 13 00:45:04 I mean where in the source ;P Jul 13 00:45:17 ah Jul 13 00:48:44 hello, all Jul 13 00:49:12 im back sry i took so long running on puppy linux without hdd Jul 13 00:49:20 im ghetto Jul 13 00:50:31 asj: hi. Jul 13 00:50:45 Pauly: ? Jul 13 00:51:10 i left and now im back lol thought yous would miss me Jul 13 00:51:14 lol Jul 13 00:51:20 unlikely Jul 13 00:51:29 we have 489 other idiots here Jul 13 00:51:32 im going to put the battery back in now Jul 13 00:51:45 ya, but im an awesome idiot Jul 13 00:52:39 glad someone thinks so Jul 13 00:53:14 well that did'nt work Jul 13 00:53:26 i know i suck at typing Jul 13 00:54:22 i have an HTC wall charger that uses usb Jul 13 00:54:25 Pauly: what happens when you press the power button? Jul 13 00:54:40 nothing at all. Jul 13 00:54:46 no vibrate nothing? Jul 13 00:54:56 not even the dim screen boot Jul 13 00:55:01 nothing Jul 13 00:56:28 without a voltmeter, the only think I can say is let it sit a few hours maybe it'll charge, try a nokia charger or maybe you got a dud battery. I've had many of them die and never had a problem Jul 13 00:56:45 this only happend once i drained the battery, charging the battery for few minutes in a nokia 5230 nuron and then switching battery back works. Jul 13 00:56:55 but i sold my phone. Jul 13 00:58:24 oh, and use a nokia battery, maybe it's not trickle charging some odd chinese knock off? Jul 13 00:58:39 asj: it is nokia battery Jul 13 00:59:03 then what I first said Jul 13 01:00:06 just not nokia charger but i do have an 5v 1a output htc charger so im gonna use that with nokia data cable Jul 13 01:00:13 thanks Jul 13 01:02:06 asj: hey should i buy and extra bl-5j battery (i already have one but i do have a desktop battery charger coming in the mail) or a nokia wall charger? Jul 13 01:02:10 Nokia data cable is 500mA only, isn't it? Jul 13 01:02:39 Pauly: never had this problem, don't know Jul 13 01:03:13 I bought a wall charger for emergencies Jul 13 01:03:16 it's really cheap Jul 13 01:03:19 but I never had to use it. Jul 13 01:03:36 I mean, external wall charger Jul 13 01:03:43 pti: like one you put a battery in. Jul 13 01:03:49 yes Jul 13 01:03:56 ya i bought one off ebay. Jul 13 01:04:09 but i hate cause ihave to wait couple days Jul 13 01:04:29 oh... Jul 13 01:04:53 I would freak out if my phone died, lol Jul 13 01:04:56 ptl: so have u ever used your battery til the phone died out Jul 13 01:04:58 I'm so dependent on it already Jul 13 01:05:16 I depleted it once but it recharged normally Jul 13 01:05:46 ptl: really, so maybe i should buy a nokia charger? Jul 13 01:06:31 I dunno, I do not know if there's a real difference. Jul 13 01:07:24 Pauly: it's simply a guess, who knows Jul 13 01:08:35 thanks Jul 13 01:09:04 well i know im not the only one cause other people have posted pthe same prob Jul 13 01:09:36 well ill let it charge til my extrnal battery charger comes in mail. Jul 13 01:09:48 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46549 Jul 13 01:09:54 not very helpful Jul 13 01:12:20 Pauly: the trickle charge will take a LONG time to get it back to working levels Jul 13 01:12:39 one 32 minute session is not enough Jul 13 01:13:52 I highly suggest a charger with the data pins shorted, as DocScrutinizer mentioned Jul 13 01:15:10 also Jul 13 01:15:26 such as the original Nokia wall charger Jul 13 01:15:35 Do you not have the stock nokia charger? Jul 13 01:15:42 no Jul 13 01:15:48 bought the phone used Jul 13 01:16:09 which is why I suggest buying one :) Jul 13 01:16:17 i shall Jul 13 01:16:24 Pauly: 2 of us have now suggested it :) Jul 13 01:16:32 :) Jul 13 01:16:50 ah Jul 13 01:17:33 but i have extrnal wall charger coming in mail, plus i think i'll have to buy the nokia charger online since there is like no nokia store in maryland Jul 13 01:17:34 Pauly: anyway, you will have to do the emergency charge orange light thing multiple times Jul 13 01:17:59 Pauly: actually they closed all the Nokia stores in the US :( Jul 13 01:18:08 I'm sure some stores sell accessories Jul 13 01:18:21 (though not many phones use micro-usb only) Jul 13 01:18:38 ya i had a 5230 nuron Jul 13 01:18:59 used the pin charger Jul 13 01:19:22 but microusb was only for data on that phone, would'nt charge off usb Jul 13 01:20:48 Pauly: as long as the phone charged the battery, didn't matter where it came from Jul 13 01:21:09 ya i know Jul 13 01:21:29 * PerfDave is looking for a way to charge his N900 off a bike dynamo Jul 13 01:21:35 why did they close all nokia stores? Jul 13 01:21:37 so, you can get your phone working, by doing a bunch more emergency charges Jul 13 01:21:38 hey flailingmonkey, asj thanks for letting me know about the 32 min charge thing Jul 13 01:22:24 im using the 1a output usb charger from htc, i think thats my best option for now. Jul 13 01:22:26 no problem Jul 13 01:23:09 i've been wanting n900 since last year now i finally got it. i love it so much.... Jul 13 01:23:14 If you have a spare USB A-A male-female it's easy to do Jul 13 01:23:18 slice open the cable Jul 13 01:23:28 join the white and grey wires. Jul 13 01:23:32 im using the nokia data cable Jul 13 01:23:57 i hope the pins are shorted, because then it won't take long! unfortunately if the data pins aren't shorted, the N900 will only draw 100mA of that 1A (safety design thing) Jul 13 01:24:03 plug charger without D+ and D- shorted to the 'host' end - and the n900 stock USB cable to the + end Jul 13 01:24:09 to the other end Jul 13 01:24:40 ya im not that smart lol already confused Jul 13 01:25:02 he's explaining how to make a cable that will charge fast Jul 13 01:25:10 is there a way to see if the pins are shorted cause i have like allot diffrent micro usb chargers Jul 13 01:25:57 most won't. and its not something you'll be able to check visually Jul 13 01:26:24 speedevil: cant do that cause i have no idea which parts are which? Jul 13 01:30:44 with a multimeter Jul 13 01:31:01 break out the fluke Jul 13 01:33:22 gnight all Jul 13 01:36:01 SpeedEvil: Hey, i have a spare usb male a to male b cable? Jul 13 01:41:58 was that a question. Jul 13 01:43:29 where do I get info on what a particular process is runing on maemo Jul 13 01:43:44 I see 'get' sometimes in top wtf is it Jul 13 01:44:02 rtcom stuff Jul 13 01:44:06 etc Jul 13 01:50:25 http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/gentoo-n900/ FWIW Jul 13 01:51:46 luke-jr: awesome :) Jul 13 01:59:51 is it possible to adjust the rate of the vibration on the n900? **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 13 15:10:14 2010 Jul 13 15:10:15 recursion combo breaker! Jul 13 15:11:28 hello Jul 13 15:11:41 ehlo Jul 13 15:14:28 Corsac: hmm Jul 13 15:14:32 that's not the correct way to answer Jul 13 15:16:04 Termana, I don't think it's going to pan out like people seem to think it will. Jul 13 15:16:10 Termana, due to architecting. Jul 13 15:20:51 Hi ! Jul 13 15:21:04 lo Khertan Jul 13 15:21:05 wazzzzd Jul 13 15:21:31 z overflow Jul 13 15:22:52 'lo Stskeeps ... Jul 13 15:23:09 how is it going? Jul 13 15:24:41 a bit tired ... after 3 weeks of holidays Jul 13 15:25:12 3 weeks trying to finish the bath room at the first stair in my house ... too many things to do Jul 13 15:25:48 nothing finish ... Jul 13 15:26:28 i see that you have made a first version of meego running on n810 ... Jul 13 15:26:33 nice ! Jul 13 15:26:49 im so sad i charged the phone all night still wont power on :( Jul 13 15:27:05 Pauly: did you replug it every half hour? Jul 13 15:27:25 ya Jul 13 15:28:09 someone said that taking apart ac adapter and hooking directly to battery would work? Jul 13 15:28:55 woah Jul 13 15:28:57 i wouldn't risk it Jul 13 15:29:10 don't you have a friend with a phone that accepts the same battery? Jul 13 15:29:15 im so lost Jul 13 15:29:34 all the tmobile stores dont have a open nokia 5230 i can use Jul 13 15:29:45 no i do not Jul 13 15:31:06 usa is like so anti nokia for some reason lol Jul 13 15:31:43 Yahooo, KOffice now lets edit documents Jul 13 15:31:49 (Ok, SOME documents, SOMETIMES). Jul 13 15:32:17 RST38h: pff - OO.o ftw Jul 13 15:32:25 RST38h, so whats your really saying is: Jul 13 15:32:43 Yahooo, KOffice half works, half anal fists you Jul 13 15:33:27 RST38h, anyway, in what cases is it not letting you edit documents? Jul 13 15:35:04 I am worried I will fill the / partition very soon with all the downloads I am making :-) Jul 13 15:36:01 smhar, then keep track of it Jul 13 15:36:09 is bl-5j the only compatible battery for n900? Jul 13 15:36:31 Termana: I could not figure it out Jul 13 15:36:38 Termana: What I know is this: Jul 13 15:36:55 Termana: 1) You can only start a new text document, but not presentation or spreadsheet Jul 13 15:37:09 lcuk, I am, I think I need to see if I can move a certain directory out of / and symlink it Jul 13 15:37:24 Termana: 2) When you open a text document, the UI is not the same as when creating a new document. You cannot use styles, layout, etc but you CAN input text Jul 13 15:38:21 Termana: On the positive side though, KOffice is pretty snappy, once you reduce swappiness Jul 13 15:38:43 anyone know if the Quake II port uses 3D acceleration? Jul 13 15:38:46 or just software rendering Jul 13 15:39:05 Does not afaik Jul 13 15:39:19 quake2 is even implemented in opengl? Jul 13 15:39:30 is not, afaik Jul 13 15:39:50 hmm, it is, looking at those screenshots Jul 13 15:39:50 there are Q2 ports using OpenGL Jul 13 15:39:55 there are even OpenGL ES ports Jul 13 15:40:02 laters. Jul 13 15:40:06 the Pandora version uses GLES Jul 13 15:40:21 maybe I should set up a build environment and just compile that Jul 13 15:40:39 yep Jul 13 15:40:58 The main thing would be about providing comfortable controls though Jul 13 15:41:13 I'd use the same scheme as OpenArena I guess Jul 13 15:41:16 So many people failed with that, on the mobile devices... Jul 13 15:42:19 RST38h, have you tried Mupen64 with the accelerometer? Jul 13 15:42:28 bliss :D Jul 13 15:44:27 Phonic: Not really, I do not have any games for N64 Jul 13 15:45:49 ~seen MohammadAG51 Jul 13 15:46:13 hmm Jul 13 15:46:28 infobot isn't on :P Jul 13 15:47:55 aarrrggggghhhhhhhh Jul 13 15:48:12 Myrtti: what's the problem? Jul 13 15:48:42 heat, thirst and my abysmally bad memory Jul 13 15:51:45 Myrtti: ah. yeah, that's bad, indeed Jul 13 15:52:56 haaaa! GNASH Jul 13 15:53:25 aaarrgghghghhghghg Jul 13 15:53:35 you stupid piece of crap why are you installing adobe flash Jul 13 15:53:51 Myrtti: Suffer! Jul 13 15:53:51 Myrtti: :-) Jul 13 15:53:57 It is flash 10.x! Jul 13 15:54:08 Didn't you want it on your N900? Didn't you? =) Jul 13 15:54:17 RST38h: I didn't want it on my laptop even Jul 13 15:54:18 b-man: infobot is dead since >14h Jul 13 15:54:22 b-man: :-S Jul 13 15:54:31 ~botsnack Jul 13 15:54:42 ~botsnack i say! Jul 13 15:54:48 kerio: /whois infobot Jul 13 15:54:48 I have internet access in my notebook, my N900 is connected to it using usb, how I can I access the net through it? Jul 13 15:54:49 :'( Jul 13 15:54:51 infobot is not even here. Jul 13 15:55:14 smhar: I don't know if it is even possible. Jul 13 15:55:16 Venemo: think that's what I'm saying :-) Jul 13 15:55:19 : you haven't seen MohammadAG, have you? - i haven't been able to contact him Jul 13 15:55:24 err Jul 13 15:55:33 *DocScrutinizer: Jul 13 15:55:39 smhar: first you would have to enable internet connection sharing Jul 13 15:56:07 b-man: mompls, could check if he is connected to his bouncer Jul 13 15:56:34 Hi guys and girls... I have a very unusual question. My question is very tech oriented, but is about windows OS, not Maemo, however I came here because this is the only IRC chat I know of where everyone is tech savy o_O... so anyway.. my question is about WPA cracking. I have a 64-bit windows 7 OS, and Im going to be staying at m grandmothers house for a few days. However she has no internet access Jul 13 15:57:02 but her neighbour has a fiberoptic connection routed through a wireless router which is protected by a WPA-PSK Jul 13 15:57:16 ask her neighbour for access Jul 13 15:57:18 Myrtti: It is harmless Jul 13 15:57:27 Roaziel, you have no chance of cracking the network Jul 13 15:57:36 I cant, her neighbours are a bunch of turds and arent nice to her at all Jul 13 15:57:37 Roaziel, live without internet for a couple of days Jul 13 15:57:40 Myrtti: But make sure you DECLINE McAffee installation Jul 13 15:57:42 its not end of the world Jul 13 15:57:54 Myrtti: Because that is going to be way less harmless Jul 13 15:57:57 lcuk: it is not? Jul 13 15:58:02 Roaziel: try passwords Jul 13 15:58:07 no, thats next week Jul 13 15:58:10 it's what aircrack would do anyway Jul 13 15:58:24 lcuk: You mean, no next DrWho season? Jul 13 15:58:29 Well it kind of is since I need to study while Im at her place but all my assignments are posted up on the schools server. I need internet access :S Jul 13 15:58:32 Roaziel, also, nobody will give you advice that would make them accessory to what looks like at least felony Jul 13 15:58:48 you're on your own Jul 13 15:59:14 Roaziel, download now whilst you have internet Jul 13 15:59:19 offline cache.. Jul 13 15:59:37 * lcuk rollseyes at people who think the cloud is ever present Jul 13 15:59:46 i wont be able to access the stuff that will be posted later on Jul 13 16:00:14 download some movies, audiobooks, you'll survive Jul 13 16:00:18 Roaziel: really, ask the neighbor nicely Jul 13 16:00:24 Cloud? What is cloud? Jul 13 16:00:26 b-man: sorry, mohammad seems to be offline Jul 13 16:00:34 Is it the new thin client? :) Jul 13 16:00:37 explain your situation, and ask for the password Jul 13 16:00:45 They threw garbage over to my grandmothers yard.. I doubt being nice is gonna help... Jul 13 16:00:54 DocScrutinizer: thanks anyhow :) Jul 13 16:00:59 yw Jul 13 16:01:02 * Myrtti rolls her eyes Jul 13 16:01:02 But alright. Thanks anyway. Jul 13 16:01:06 Roaziel: breaking the law won't really help either :) Jul 13 16:02:12 Roaziel: pregenerated passwords are related to the serial Jul 13 16:02:20 the mac address is related to the serial Jul 13 16:02:22 even if he catches the handshake packet, with a moderately strong password he doesn't stand a chance of cracking it, be it with rainbow tables or otherwise Jul 13 16:02:25 2+2=h4x Jul 13 16:02:48 so just get a prepaid 3g sim and put it in your phone and make that your access point Jul 13 16:02:52 if it's not the pregenerated password, it's a birthday/name of dog/birthday of dog Jul 13 16:03:01 move on Jul 13 16:04:00 Hey chaps, anyone know much about the workings of the N900's gps? cause I have an idea to really speed up the lock time.... Jul 13 16:04:33 n900 lock time has never been a problem for me Jul 13 16:04:46 b-man: (infobot) [2010-07-13 16:15:24] ehlo TimRiker [2010-07-13 16:15:41] infobot on holiday? --- :-/ Jul 13 16:04:54 make sure agps is enabled, consider changing the agps server to google's, and dont stand in a faraday cage Jul 13 16:04:59 = np with getting a lock Jul 13 16:05:20 hmm Jul 13 16:05:29 I dont have a SIM so I am using the old fassioned orbital type of GPS Jul 13 16:05:39 get a sim Jul 13 16:05:42 lol Jul 13 16:05:50 but that costs $ lol Jul 13 16:06:19 get wifi Jul 13 16:07:44 I noticed that the N900 takes a long time to acquire satellites depending on how much sky it can see, but it has no trouble holding them once it finds them. I wonder if it would be possible to trick the GPS module into thinking it was already locked onto all the GPS satelites. lock time from 4~10 min to 30 seconds :-D Jul 13 16:08:09 Or I could just get a SIM >_< Jul 13 16:08:48 Wild_Doogy: I guess you don't really know how gps works? Jul 13 16:08:50 Wild_Doogy: wi-fi is good, too Jul 13 16:10:40 wait, how would that work? Jul 13 16:10:57 wow, 1900€ for aava sdk Jul 13 16:11:21 more like an hdk though Jul 13 16:16:03 ([A]GPS) - I recently noticed - by comparing two devices - that even with WLAN internet access and a decent idea of current location (lon/lat correct in GPSjinni to at least 1. decimal), the device with a non-registered SIM too ages (stopped it after 15min) to get a fix, while the other device with registered/logged-in SIM got a fix in 10s Jul 13 16:16:50 so it seems there is still some kinda bug in PR1.2 with assisted GPS Jul 13 16:17:23 (if it's not the one device being broken hw :-P ) Jul 13 16:18:49 Doc: It appears to use cell info for localization Jul 13 16:19:01 (not as in language localization of course) Jul 13 16:19:36 more seems like GPS driver managing the A bit really doesn't know how to use any prev location guess of locationlib which is *not* based on cell info Jul 13 16:19:58 when gps enables, it first reset the position to the center of the country it's in, something like that Jul 13 16:20:23 Corsac: that's not what I observed in GPSjinni Jul 13 16:20:49 Apple Censors Consumer Report iPhone4 Discussions Jul 13 16:21:08 fun! Jul 13 16:21:38 Corsac: as mentioned above the lon/lat shown was pretty exact, but still no fix for GPS, despite the fact it *could* get assisting data via WLAN from internet, based on lat/lon shown in GPSjinni Jul 13 16:22:40 Doc: file a bug and raise hell Jul 13 16:23:37 well, I skipped the PIN input so modem wasn't really powered up. Lemme try again with inputting some PIN (SIM still won't log in as it is an expired one) Jul 13 16:25:00 RST38h, I don't think that works anymore Jul 13 16:25:02 hello Jul 13 16:26:00 GAN: True Jul 13 16:26:09 Since "maintenance mode" is just code for "we really don't care, but we're going to pretend just a little to appease these irritating people." Jul 13 16:26:10 GAN: Is anyone still working on supporting maemo5 at all? Jul 13 16:26:34 they all moved to harmattan! Jul 13 16:26:35 GAN900: ack Jul 13 16:26:40 RST38h, supposedly Jul 13 16:26:49 harmattan? Jul 13 16:26:50 RST38h, I don't buy it, personally. Jul 13 16:26:57 is it ready? Jul 13 16:26:57 is there a way to change the maemo system sounds? (n900) Jul 13 16:26:57 shame Jul 13 16:27:08 sure, xim_ Jul 13 16:27:10 aye Jul 13 16:27:20 in /usr/share, i guess Jul 13 16:27:51 or someplace around there Jul 13 16:28:01 ahh, so i'm supposed to manuallly replace the wav files? seems like a hack, i expected to change a pointer in a config or menu of some kind Jul 13 16:28:28 Gconf editor Jul 13 16:28:42 you can change the target Jul 13 16:28:49 for wav files Jul 13 16:30:36 OK, got it? Jul 13 16:30:40 xim_ ? Jul 13 16:30:47 * tuliobaars Burps! Jul 13 16:31:16 im looking into it Jul 13 16:31:43 OK, good luck Jul 13 16:32:01 honestly i only have the vaugest idea, i'm checking to see if there is gconf-editor in the app manager, and im not sure where to look in there if it does Jul 13 16:32:05 if u have some questions, just ask Jul 13 16:32:12 ok thanks! Jul 13 16:32:50 Sure! You're welcome Jul 13 16:33:35 SpeedEvil! Jul 13 16:33:46 Wazzup Jul 13 16:35:30 * tuliobaars Slept on the Floor Jul 13 16:37:11 So, xim_, Everithing OK? I think it would be easier if you connect your N900 in PC with WinSCP to change the files Jul 13 16:38:01 yeah, i think your right Jul 13 16:38:07 it seems there is no gconf-editor Jul 13 16:38:11 and i use ssh all the time Jul 13 16:38:16 it would be very easier that doing targeting file to file Jul 13 16:38:21 yeah Jul 13 16:38:50 No, the Gconf Editor is avaible for all maemo devices, i guess Jul 13 16:39:15 nice! found them all under /usr/share/sounds Jul 13 16:39:27 yeah! Jul 13 16:39:45 I said something on /usr/share Jul 13 16:39:58 i have gconftool, its command line, but gconf-editor wasn't in the app manager Jul 13 16:40:00 o well Jul 13 16:40:04 IRC 1 x 0 N900 Jul 13 16:40:09 this will work thanks Jul 13 16:40:12 lol ya Jul 13 16:40:22 So add some repo and update Jul 13 16:40:27 install in xterm Jul 13 16:40:38 ([A]GPS) - mhm, it seems AGPS is using the current lon/lat values only when location lib reports at least "low precision". On the device without cell info the GPS applet says "no location" despite the lon/lat it correct from last fix, so GPS lingers on with 3 (correct) sats found, at 80% 96% 100%, but doesn't find any further sat nor gets a fix Jul 13 16:40:40 so let me tell you something Jul 13 16:41:01 DocScrutinizer: can that be fixed? Jul 13 16:41:14 i mean, having a registered sim is not that hard, and the n900 *is* a phone, but still... Jul 13 16:41:22 dunno. You could at least fake a cellinfo Jul 13 16:41:49 When i was adding some repo in my N810, some N900 apps where avaible for N810! Jul 13 16:42:11 I've installed some FreMantle apps on N810 Jul 13 16:42:17 incredible! Jul 13 16:42:30 tuliobaars: do they work? Jul 13 16:42:31 :o Jul 13 16:42:38 yeah! Jul 13 16:42:45 slow but work Jul 13 16:43:16 ah maybe its because i had turned off extras-development because someone said it would help me install the autodisconnect app Jul 13 16:43:17 like the easy-deb-chroot Jul 13 16:43:17 woooot, it found a 4th sat - even one of those the other device is using as best ones (before it had bogus sat every now and then, which didn't show up at all in the device with fix) Jul 13 16:43:36 i'm not sure but can be Jul 13 16:43:39 tadaaaa, FIX! Jul 13 16:43:42 turn all repos on Jul 13 16:43:42 http://dailydiscord.net/resources/vaderKitty.jpg Jul 13 16:44:18 Its strange, running FreMantle apps Jul 13 16:44:19 haha Jul 13 16:44:40 on Diablo Jul 13 16:44:42 BUT... Jul 13 16:44:49 I had to install at least 30 libraries... Jul 13 16:45:32 another detail I noticed: it seems like GPS isn't really started 'full power' by GPSjinni. At least the device with SIM ramped up number of found sats from 3 to 7, ~10s after I started maps app Jul 13 16:47:27 DocScrutinizer: what about the builtin map widget? Jul 13 16:47:37 when you run GPS Diagnostic Utility though, it seems to be much snappier Jul 13 16:49:30 kerio: not tested Jul 13 16:49:34 I have installed LED Pattern Editor, but can not seem to find it anywhere in the list of installed applications Jul 13 16:49:44 smhar: settings? Jul 13 16:49:48 RST38h: yes, I seem to remember similar Jul 13 16:50:10 smhar: it's in settings Jul 13 16:50:20 and it has a bug ;-D Jul 13 16:50:24 ohh,, thanks :-) Jul 13 16:50:27 but no bgtracker Jul 13 16:50:30 what bug? Jul 13 16:50:51 period duration is shown as half of what it actually is Jul 13 16:50:59 or double? Jul 13 16:51:06 Nice Qt SDK just got hit with "dpkg: status database area is locked by another process :D Jul 13 16:51:40 what's wrong with the default patterns? Jul 13 16:52:03 if anyone is interested in overclocking there 810 see this synopsys of how im coming along at this page under dochez. i like the guys software very much and it souldn't be to hard to convert to diablo Jul 13 16:52:34 http://code.google.com/p/milestone-overclock/wiki/Donate Jul 13 16:52:34 DocScrutinizer: god damn, i am sorry. i just always forget to send you the adapter :( Jul 13 16:53:05 DrGrov: no worries - it's no showstopper Jul 13 16:53:35 DocScrutinizer: good to know. i have a insanely slow non-functioning brain in the summer time due to the heat. Jul 13 16:54:08 i really dont think maemo has gconf-editor Jul 13 16:54:41 I know I've seen one for atleast Diablo Jul 13 16:54:49 diablo has it xim_ Jul 13 16:55:00 and even if there isn't, gconf files are just xml Jul 13 16:55:21 it's not rocket science to edit them Jul 13 16:56:19 i'm trying to find a way to modify the system sounds of the device without just overwriting the files and which would mean formatting my files i want as aac's or wavs so they match the random default formats etc Jul 13 16:56:30 are there any makefile experts here Jul 13 16:56:51 hmm, any network masters around? Jul 13 16:57:29 what doo you have doc Jul 13 16:57:37 my IRC bouncer has a send-Q of some 6000, to the external IP that's my N900 3G internet connection Jul 13 16:58:03 of course xchat on N900 lags like hell Jul 13 16:58:04 can't help u Jul 13 16:58:26 i use pidgin Jul 13 16:58:46 could anything ahead of an outbound TCP connection block packet sending? Jul 13 16:59:34 these arnt easy questions Jul 13 16:59:39 or is that just the amount of of not yet ACKed packets piling up in the sendQ? Jul 13 17:01:18 strange enough outbound from N900 is reasonably fast Jul 13 17:01:42 like ~500ms max from one client to other Jul 13 17:02:09 kind of slow dont you think Jul 13 17:02:13 just inbound only sometimes is laggy up to minutes Jul 13 17:03:01 why is it surprising? Jul 13 17:03:20 doesnt changing system event sound pointers seem like a very basic OS function that should be supported by included menus? Jul 13 17:03:23 This is quite tiring. Jul 13 17:03:33 smackpotat: N900 -3G-> bouncer -internet-> freenode-server_A -> freenode-server_B -DSL-> this_client Jul 13 17:04:09 i mean i know its linux and developers like to keep it complicated... ;p Jul 13 17:04:13 I'd think <500ms timed by my ears is good enough Jul 13 17:04:19 An inbound packet has to deal with WiFi power saving (if going over wifi) *and* N900 being put to sleep most of the time when it is idle Jul 13 17:04:35 An outbound packet is guaranteed to be send from a device that is active Jul 13 17:05:23 RST38h: well understood, except that's 3G, not WLAN Jul 13 17:06:25 so I wonder if even the modem has some sleeping mode creating minute lags, when inbound data pending Jul 13 17:07:23 most likely Jul 13 17:07:43 + consider your cell phone provider's infrastructure that may be biased toward outgoing packets Jul 13 17:08:00 I can't get XSendEvent to work :( Jul 13 17:08:20 mhm, /msg DocScrutinizer51 gave me 13s lag on first time and ~0 on 2nd immediately following Jul 13 17:08:41 RST38h: strange nevertheless Jul 13 17:09:34 well, it should nicely serve my needs regarding power savings on 3G Jul 13 17:09:39 DocScrutinizer: i'm on 3g, but i'm not having problems Jul 13 17:09:49 (xchat connecting to a bouncer) Jul 13 17:10:22 id say so too i was playing with a ti develpment kit for a cc430 and u could put the modem to sleep the radio could be waked on radio but these are fast actions taking only a few enstuctioons Jul 13 17:10:45 instructions Jul 13 17:11:22 is it normal for n900 to be slow and laggy all the time? glitching poeples voices in phone calls etc? Jul 13 17:11:31 no Jul 13 17:11:38 10,s of cycles Jul 13 17:11:40 low fps switching desktops Jul 13 17:12:26 Hey Jul 13 17:12:36 xim_: cell radio is _enormously_ more complex. Jul 13 17:12:44 xim_, everything OK with your wav ? Jul 13 17:12:55 xim_: It's got its own processor with 16M of RAM, and 2M of ROM Jul 13 17:12:59 Hello SpeedEvil Jul 13 17:13:33 lo SpeedEvil Jul 13 17:14:04 wooohooo 12k sendQ Jul 13 17:14:23 xim_: Caution with your wavs, you could fu** the files, making them too large or something wrong Jul 13 17:14:29 make a backup Jul 13 17:14:33 gg Jul 13 17:14:36 hi Jul 13 17:14:51 my device is full of strange icons that i had change Jul 13 17:15:12 speed evil do you know something on makefiles Jul 13 17:15:16 tuliobaars, no, i gave up, its frustrating that there is no built in support for something as simple as changing sound pointers, half the sound files are aac, half are wavs, it would be an ugly hack having to reformat my own files arbitrarily and then overwrite system files to do it, its a dirty hack for some basic OS function, very frustrating Jul 13 17:15:35 SpeedEvil, how can I compile a .sh script without using Scratchbox Jul 13 17:15:42 goes with the general feelin i have sortof come to feel like my n900 has inherited all the unstable glitchiness and lack of stable apps as all other linux on desktops etc Jul 13 17:15:44 You don't compile sh scripts Jul 13 17:15:49 damn, it doesn't even help to send something, the lines tween "your wav ?" and gg still missing Jul 13 17:15:54 i know Jul 13 17:16:13 Evening folks. Jul 13 17:16:16 smackpotat: I know very little of makefiles Jul 13 17:16:17 as well as everything after that Jul 13 17:16:17 but i wanna make it executable in maemo devices Jul 13 17:16:26 mkswap, mkdos Jul 13 17:16:30 dd Jul 13 17:16:35 tuliobaars: shell scripts are executable on maemo devices Jul 13 17:16:38 then you just chmod +x it and execute it Jul 13 17:16:41 sendQ 26k Jul 13 17:16:46 :-/ Jul 13 17:16:46 tuliobaars, isn't that executable already? Jul 13 17:16:59 wtf?? Jul 13 17:17:08 not in Maemo Jul 13 17:17:14 yes in maemo Jul 13 17:17:21 you're not beginning it #!/bin/bash ar eyou? Jul 13 17:17:24 tuliobaars, just chmod it. Jul 13 17:17:28 Because that won't usually work Jul 13 17:17:39 also - you can't execute anything on MyDocs - as it's FAT Jul 13 17:17:45 a module i want to play with has a makefile for an arm cross compiler how to i change it for the diablo sdk Jul 13 17:17:48 but It only works on ubuntu, yet Jul 13 17:17:53 or do i Jul 13 17:18:01 how? Jul 13 17:18:10 its a Kernel Fixer Jul 13 17:18:18 called MaemoTurbo Jul 13 17:18:22 SpeedEvil, i dont suppose you have any idea why my phone is so laggy then? Jul 13 17:18:31 xim_: Powertop, top, ps, ... Jul 13 17:18:40 the normal 'why is my foo so slow' tools Jul 13 17:18:45 tuliobaars, place the script somewhere else than MyDocs and you can execute it after chmoding it correctly. Jul 13 17:18:53 mine isn't laggy and I have maybe 60 things installed Jul 13 17:19:06 yes, this way i know Jul 13 17:19:09 Powertop will tell you - largely - what's using lots of CPU Jul 13 17:19:14 i use top like crazy, nothing eats my cycles in general, its just naturally laggy fps and sounds Jul 13 17:19:19 i'd say "basic OS function" would be multitasking, copy and paste, networking Jul 13 17:19:27 i wanna distribute and make like a OneClick Jul 13 17:20:05 tuliobaars, you can put it inside deb and do all chmoding etc automaticly. Jul 13 17:20:14 kerio, seriously, its not an apple 2, i get where you are coming from, but guis have come a long way since 1982 Jul 13 17:20:47 xim_: so the UI is crappy Jul 13 17:20:49 But how can i do it? Jul 13 17:20:52 not the OS Jul 13 17:20:58 D-livil! Jul 13 17:20:59 it's a *huge* difference Jul 13 17:21:20 tuliobaars, google for debian packaging. Jul 13 17:21:40 sure Jul 13 17:21:52 thanks for help Jul 13 17:22:05 xim: decrease swappiness. Jul 13 17:22:14 kerio, ill buy that, but still its a symptom of a larger issue of linux (and the dev community) being disorganized and relying on 3rd party software they have no quality control over to perform essential tasks, then the 3rd party apps never work or do what they are supposed to do, its the same on ubuntu as slack as maemo Jul 13 17:22:24 UI is ok. It is lagging because of some outdated kernel settings. Jul 13 17:22:24 tuliobaars, no problem. I'd help but it's too slow to type coz I'm chatting with N900 atm. Jul 13 17:22:40 I'm on N810 Jul 13 17:22:41 xim: Ok. Then buy an iPhone and stop whining. Jul 13 17:22:56 iPhone is piece of BS Jul 13 17:23:15 xim_: with disorganization also comes variety Jul 13 17:23:20 Because FOR ME, the 3rd party apps that I have installed work exactly how they are supposed to work Jul 13 17:23:33 i used to be the biggest anti-microsoft linux-up-talker there was, and after using linux as my primary os for years, its def not as stable or perfect as people act, mainly because of this 3rd party app thing Jul 13 17:23:35 xim_: go get yourself a fucking iPhone and stop complaining you little greedy bastard Jul 13 17:23:48 xim: With an iPhone you will not have any larger linux issues, such as community Jul 13 17:24:00 iPhone is for Noobs Jul 13 17:24:02 it's not perfect Jul 13 17:24:14 but it's way better than the alternative Jul 13 17:24:23 xim: And you will not need any 3rd party apps because iPhone does everything you will ever want from a phone Jul 13 17:24:30 "Ohh, but it have a Xterm Emulator!" Jul 13 17:24:32 xim: And it is shiny. Jul 13 17:26:02 RST38h, really? fmms doesnt work, half the games crash when you try to open them, the offline GPS map downloaders are non existant and do nothing, the IR remote programs dont work at all, the os lags so much even the system sounds glitch when i get a text message, the widgets like recaller crash spontaneously Jul 13 17:26:18 uh? Jul 13 17:26:21 xim_: qtirreco works great here Jul 13 17:26:22 RST38h, it even tells you how to keep the phone correctly in hand. Or should I say it forces you to handle it "right" :P Jul 13 17:26:26 xim_: so stop fucking complaining and get the iPhone and enjoy. Perhaps that is better? Jul 13 17:26:26 so my option is apple, or no quality control Jul 13 17:26:27 and the ui is snappy Jul 13 17:26:40 iPhone 4 x N900 Jul 13 17:26:41 xim: As I said, get yourself an iPhone: it has MMS Jul 13 17:26:48 xim_: or winmo! :P Jul 13 17:26:52 iPod Touch x N810 Jul 13 17:26:53 xim: As for myself, I never had fMMS installed Jul 13 17:26:58 fmms works fine for me, i havent seen a single game that crashes, qtirreco works perfectly, my os doesnt lag atall, and i've been using recaller for 4 months recording every call i make/receive and its never glitched once Jul 13 17:27:02 whats that say about you? Jul 13 17:27:02 xim: And all the games I have installed work Jul 13 17:27:05 I prefer the N900 and the N810 Jul 13 17:27:09 and you guys? Jul 13 17:27:17 :O there's a program to record calls? Jul 13 17:27:20 it says maybe i have a defective device Jul 13 17:27:24 nidO: i perfectly agree with your statement. Jul 13 17:27:24 recaller Jul 13 17:27:28 kerio yeh, recaller Jul 13 17:27:30 it works awsome when it doesnt crash your desktop Jul 13 17:27:32 cool Jul 13 17:27:43 nidO: nothing has had any issues what so ever. sure, a few reinstalling issues after PR 1.2 but that is minor Jul 13 17:27:49 xim: I can share images directly, using email or any of the image sharing services Jul 13 17:27:51 I had few crashes here and there with recaller. Jul 13 17:27:54 can even record non call mic input, with amazing clarity Jul 13 17:27:57 xim: Why would I even need MMS? Jul 13 17:28:28 xim_: fyi, the iphone doesn't do call recording Jul 13 17:28:32 i think Jul 13 17:28:34 * D-Iivil thinks xim_ is on wrong channell.... Jul 13 17:28:38 lol i hate the i phone Jul 13 17:28:55 steve jobs is a huge tool Jul 13 17:28:55 when does the PR 1.3 going to release? Jul 13 17:28:57 im a computer engineer Jul 13 17:29:01 nah, it's a nice phone Jul 13 17:29:02 i just want some quality control Jul 13 17:29:03 ~pr1.3 Jul 13 17:29:04 from memory, pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now..... Jul 13 17:29:05 xim_: so stop complaining already, wrong channel Jul 13 17:29:07 for end users Jul 13 17:29:10 xim_, huge tool??? Jul 13 17:29:32 humm, that sounds lit bit gay Jul 13 17:29:39 "Huge Tool" Jul 13 17:29:40 theres plenty of quality control. if you want more, register a garage account, join the testing squad, and put some time in testing applications before they hit extras Jul 13 17:30:00 it seems you have countless problems with these applications that no-one else does, so youll be an ace source of debugging info. Jul 13 17:30:00 yeah Jul 13 17:30:20 and regarding the signal drop... the n900 has a consistant 12dBm drop when i hold it with the right hand Jul 13 17:30:25 it must be my device if yall are saying all those apps i mentioned work for you Jul 13 17:30:31 Huge tool sounds gay... Jul 13 17:30:32 that or you'll be told to apply some computer engineer 101 skillz and figure out whether it's just you thats buggered your device first. Jul 13 17:30:38 stop saying that... Jul 13 17:30:44 kerio, how can you monitor the cell level? Jul 13 17:30:52 netmon Jul 13 17:31:03 although it crashes constantly under 2g for me Jul 13 17:31:32 kerio, have to try it out :P Jul 13 17:31:36 tuliobaars, please stop flashing us with your projections Jul 13 17:32:02 tuliobaars: HUGE TOOOOOOOOL Jul 13 17:32:29 ...in a turtleneck Jul 13 17:32:50 hmm, is there a way to use key repetition instead of using the symbol key? Jul 13 17:32:56 projections? What are you trying to say? Jul 13 17:33:23 maybe i should wipe my device and start it over from scratch Jul 13 17:33:45 How much a used N900????? Jul 13 17:33:49 ~status Jul 13 17:33:50 Since Tue Jul 13 14:36:01 2010, there have been 4 modifications, 14 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 15 commands. I have been awake for 2h 57m 49s this session, and currently reference 117133 factoids. I'm using about 16656 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 246.85/22.82 child 0.01/0.03 Jul 13 17:33:59 :-)) Jul 13 17:34:06 don't wipe, sell Jul 13 17:34:07 0 morons? Jul 13 17:34:11 get an iphone 3gs Jul 13 17:34:12 That moron count is suspiciously low. Jul 13 17:34:14 theres gotta be at least 50 in this channel Jul 13 17:34:22 i wanna buy one Jul 13 17:34:26 'cause they say 4g is kinda broken Jul 13 17:34:37 xim_: meh Jul 13 17:34:46 N900! How much? Used one! Jul 13 17:34:51 I wanna buy! Jul 13 17:34:59 tuliobaars: ebay.com Jul 13 17:35:01 some one wanna sell yours? Jul 13 17:35:11 i bought mine for 350€ Jul 13 17:35:14 i know ebay.com Jul 13 17:35:18 oh Jul 13 17:35:24 kerio: waitwaitwhat? netmon? Jul 13 17:35:32 here is around 1000 dollars Jul 13 17:36:02 where the hell is "here", the moon? Jul 13 17:36:05 i really dont want an iphone, i want an open platform heavy development phone with awsome hardware like the n900, i just have been very dissapointed with how the one I have performs up to this point, maybe i installed a bad APPle when i first got it that fubared everything Jul 13 17:36:20 kerio: what's netmon? where from is that 12dBm figure? Jul 13 17:36:37 i assumed everyone else had the same issues as me and was just living with it because "yay its linux" Jul 13 17:36:41 DocScrutinizer: a program for n900? Jul 13 17:36:58 kerio: don't fool me, LINK!! Jul 13 17:37:14 so it sounds like I need to wipe Jul 13 17:37:15 DocScrutinizer: apt-get install netmon Jul 13 17:37:19 k Jul 13 17:37:25 not sure what repo, don't care Jul 13 17:37:26 http://maemo.org/packages/view/netmon/ Jul 13 17:37:31 devel Jul 13 17:37:33 i assume you have everything Jul 13 17:37:41 xim_: hmm Jul 13 17:37:47 can't hurt Jul 13 17:37:57 re Jul 13 17:38:01 HAHAA Jul 13 17:38:03 I've got disconnected Jul 13 17:38:12 my network provider is a pile of garbage. Jul 13 17:38:16 a flash a day keeps the phone in shape :P Jul 13 17:38:18 i started my "experience" by flashing everything - used phone Jul 13 17:38:37 hey, lost connection Jul 13 17:38:54 so, do someone want to sell your N900??? Jul 13 17:38:56 tbh iv had my device since february, and i've only had to reflash it once, and that was intentional to switch from uk firmware to global Jul 13 17:39:12 i reflash it every week Jul 13 17:39:19 tuliobaars: they wouldn't hang around #maemo if they wanted to get rid of their n900 Jul 13 17:39:29 >:-( curse MohammadAG and his custom kernel spoiling any apt-get with "have unmet deps" Jul 13 17:39:49 pwnd Jul 13 17:39:57 but, i don't know, someone could have two and wanna sell one Jul 13 17:39:58 what's wrong with kernel-power? Jul 13 17:40:02 tuliobaars: http://cgi.ebay.com/NOKIA-N900-MOBILE-PHONE-N-900-32GB-SMARTPHONE-N-900-/270607129131?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item3f01711a2b Jul 13 17:40:23 tuliobaars: well, if they have two they probably have a reason Jul 13 17:40:36 (that is probably "being crazy") Jul 13 17:40:54 kerio: doesn't know about hostmode Jul 13 17:40:54 a reason could be sell it? Jul 13 17:40:57 or they personally own one and one is for work purposes Jul 13 17:41:09 ooh Jul 13 17:41:11 tuliobaars: would think they would've sold it by now Jul 13 17:41:24 DocScrutinizer: does it work? Jul 13 17:41:26 just forget it Jul 13 17:41:32 nope :-PÜ Jul 13 17:41:45 electronics is a bad investment, price goes down the moment you walk from the shop Jul 13 17:41:46 why.... Jul 13 17:42:08 Myrtti: That is a yet undiscovered market Jul 13 17:42:17 Myrtti: Electronics that attans value with time Jul 13 17:42:18 attains Jul 13 17:42:28 no, here, the N810 still is being selled at around 600 dollar Jul 13 17:42:38 again, where is "here"? Jul 13 17:42:39 and a N900 for 1000 Jul 13 17:42:43 Brasil Jul 13 17:42:44 tuliobaars: and what was the original price for it? Jul 13 17:42:46 lol: " I love this phone but I just don't have the time anymore to use all of the functions it provides." Jul 13 17:43:43 myrtti, exactly the same with cars, minute you drive them off the lot the value drops by 10gs Jul 13 17:43:44 N810: Starting at 1000 to 5000 reais Jul 13 17:43:55 tuliobaars: see, so the price has gone down Jul 13 17:43:56 N900: 1200 to 2000 reais Jul 13 17:44:11 hi again Jul 13 17:44:15 hi Jul 13 17:44:44 wow, netmon :-) Jul 13 17:44:49 tuliobaars: 1200 reais seems to be about same what they sell the N900 here in Finland also. Jul 13 17:44:51 ihere eletronics are expensive Jul 13 17:44:52 I bought my N800 for £70 a year ago. Jul 13 17:45:01 used electronics is like that Jul 13 17:45:04 yeah, thats the right price Jul 13 17:45:12 but look at N810! Jul 13 17:45:15 5000 Jul 13 17:45:17 maybe someone have an idea on how i can achieve a tab switching like in fennec in qt between different window ? Jul 13 17:45:20 i got mine for free from a guy who works for nokia Jul 13 17:45:28 thats the right price Jul 13 17:45:37 can you gimme one too? Jul 13 17:45:40 xim_: and still you're whining? Jul 13 17:45:42 i wish Jul 13 17:46:05 xim_: I would understand the whine if you'd paid the price... Jul 13 17:46:05 anyone using diablo with gpe_calendar and syncevolution? Jul 13 17:46:12 lol no you didnt Jul 13 17:46:17 Diablo is with me Jul 13 17:46:17 you just like shouting Jul 13 17:46:27 Use zsync Jul 13 17:46:33 hum ... noone know :( Jul 13 17:46:43 sync GPEcalendar with outlook and Gcallendar Jul 13 17:47:08 I still use diablo running FreMantle apps. Any problem? Jul 13 17:47:11 xim_: shouting? Me? Jul 13 17:47:20 Hardware modified N810 Jul 13 17:47:41 I don't have outlook... Jul 13 17:47:55 but Gcalendar or Gmail? Jul 13 17:48:00 i guess Jul 13 17:48:06 Thunderbird Jul 13 17:48:11 give the shot Jul 13 17:48:20 I'm running a funambol server and the desktop is linux + evolution Jul 13 17:48:34 Thunderbird engine Jul 13 17:48:45 open Evo Jul 13 17:49:00 look for sync Jul 13 17:49:05 and sync! Jul 13 17:49:07 D-Iivil, you wouldnt "whine" if you had a device hailed as the nail in the iphones coffin, which then was glitchy and laggy and half the apps didn't work? with performance issues that no one can explain? that is so unreasonable? Jul 13 17:49:14 Simple as life Jul 13 17:49:21 kerio: nidO: thanks Jul 13 17:49:29 that you would curse at the person Jul 13 17:49:29 xim_ you can't just stop whining? Jul 13 17:49:30 tuliobaars: well, I'm really looking to sync without being bound to the desktop Jul 13 17:49:42 oooh Jul 13 17:49:46 xim_: well.. if I had it for free... Jul 13 17:49:53 thats retarded Jul 13 17:49:54 do you use internal mail? Jul 13 17:49:57 are you retarded? Jul 13 17:50:00 xim_: I wouldn't be that pissed. Jul 13 17:50:02 xim: 1) Nokia never hailed it as a nail in iphone's coffin Jul 13 17:50:04 DocScrutinizer: does 2g work for you? Jul 13 17:50:10 Whos retarded? Jul 13 17:50:16 xim: (stupid bloggers did, but you weren't listening to them, were you?) Jul 13 17:50:32 xim_: and now you start to throw names in the air? Just wondering who's the retarded one here... Jul 13 17:50:33 WHO IS RETARDED? Jul 13 17:50:35 xim: 2) As I said before, the lagginess is easy to fix with a single line in XTerm Jul 13 17:50:41 no 2G for now, SIM expired -> status: SIM rejected Jul 13 17:50:47 tuliobaars: You are. Wanna talk about it? =B)~ Jul 13 17:50:51 GUYS. CHEESECAKE. Jul 13 17:50:55 CHILL OUT. Jul 13 17:50:59 someone who says a promotional device shouldn't work is retarded Jul 13 17:51:17 Myrtti: Hey, I have just come back to this window and found my prey! Jul 13 17:51:19 RST38h: Your luck i woke up happy today, or... Jul 13 17:51:25 xim_: where did I make a statement like that? Could you be so kind and point me that :) Jul 13 17:51:27 or? Jul 13 17:51:36 I dont said that! Jul 13 17:51:48 not you tuliobaars youve been helpful Jul 13 17:51:54 d-Iivil is just being obnoxious Jul 13 17:51:55 oh thanks Jul 13 17:52:04 for crying out loud. it's just a bloody piece of plastic and some solder Jul 13 17:52:09 tuliobaars: "dont said" -> "didn't say" => learn English! Jul 13 17:52:09 and no im not gonna quote what you said 60 seconds ago Jul 13 17:52:44 RST38h: The retarded here is you. Stop doind this. Talk like a man, not like a kid, please Jul 13 17:52:47 I already said i probably just need to flash the device, and you keep attacking me for being upset my device doesnt work Jul 13 17:53:00 Jealous... Jul 13 17:53:02 finger pointing ♥ Jul 13 17:53:15 xim_: all I said was I wouldn't be so damn pissed of if I had something for free and it didn't work flawlessly. I would just put it away and that's that. Jul 13 17:53:39 xim_: you were the one that immediately started taking out cards like "retarded" ;) Jul 13 17:53:39 but that was just an excuse to keep attacking me in reality, because you were already flaming me before i said i got it free Jul 13 17:53:39 Ohoh, things are getting warm here, isn't? Jul 13 17:53:44 tuliobaars: meh! Jul 13 17:53:50 meh! Jul 13 17:53:52 please, could you chill!? Jul 13 17:53:52 and not immediatly, after i found you couldnt be reasoned with Jul 13 17:53:56 bye Jul 13 17:54:08 yeah im done Jul 13 17:54:13 Meh! Whats that? Jul 13 17:54:16 Anyone here got a little time and some Xlib knowledge? Specifically with XSendEvent for sending key press/release events? Jul 13 17:54:29 xim_: tuliobaars@gmail.com Jul 13 17:54:32 tuliobaars: That is my reaction to certain people Jul 13 17:54:41 alterego: yes, what? Jul 13 17:54:46 No problem Jul 13 17:54:57 Relax and enjoy the view Jul 13 17:55:13 anyway im gonna go reflash, thanks for the help (you know who you are) Jul 13 17:55:15 later all Jul 13 17:55:29 xim_: later, don't be away too long :) Jul 13 17:55:32 RST38h: http://pastie.org/1042809 - I'm trying to programatically open the application menu ... Jul 13 17:55:37 hey Jul 13 17:55:43 contact me xim_ Jul 13 17:55:47 alterego: a moment Jul 13 17:55:51 if you have problems Jul 13 17:56:02 sure thing, got your email ;) thanks Jul 13 17:56:09 alterego: funny, I have done that :) Jul 13 17:56:09 pz out! Jul 13 17:56:18 alterego: Maemo5 has not got F4 though Jul 13 17:56:19 RST38h: and it worked for you? Jul 13 17:56:26 no, I did it differently Jul 13 17:56:38 RST38h: I know, but it's in the Qt source, so I presume that function still works .. Jul 13 17:56:51 I just don't know _my_ code works because I've got no real way of debugging it. Jul 13 17:56:59 RST38h: do you have an example? Jul 13 17:56:59 For Tentacled's sake, people, SOTP USING XTest Jul 13 17:57:16 XTest has not been designed for your little apps =) Jul 13 17:57:17 RST38h: XTest? Jul 13 17:57:23 f4? Jul 13 17:57:26 Xtest? Jul 13 17:57:28 ooh, function keys Jul 13 17:57:31 F4? Jul 13 17:57:32 i miss function keys ._. Jul 13 17:57:33 RST38h: this better? Jul 13 17:57:38 RST38h: http://pastie.org/1042814 Jul 13 17:57:43 alterego: It is your own app, right? And you are opening a menu in it? Jul 13 17:57:55 RST38h: that's the aim yes ;) Jul 13 17:57:57 alterego: Yea, XSendEvent is the one Jul 13 17:58:06 Lemme locate my code Jul 13 17:58:11 RST38h: thanks :) Jul 13 17:58:17 what's xtest and what's wrong with it? Jul 13 17:58:22 RST38h, wheres the F4 function key? Jul 13 17:58:57 tuliobaars: there is no F4 key on the N00, Jul 13 17:59:00 ~N900 .. Jul 13 17:59:06 alterego: I do it much easier Jul 13 17:59:09 tuliobaars: there is on the N8x0 and 770 though Jul 13 17:59:14 RST38h: good! HOW?! :D Jul 13 17:59:22 alterego: I directly call the event handler, as it is in the same appp Jul 13 17:59:33 alterego: bypassing X completely Jul 13 17:59:41 Uhuh Jul 13 17:59:50 RST38h: gtk? Jul 13 17:59:51 but in N8x0, just witn ext. keyboard, i guess alterego Jul 13 17:59:54 alterego: yea Jul 13 17:59:58 alterego: But yours should work Jul 13 18:00:09 alterego: Except that you should probably send KeyClick Jul 13 18:00:10 tuliobaars: no, it's the menu button on the N8x0, and 770 Jul 13 18:00:16 ohh Jul 13 18:00:30 thx Jul 13 18:00:34 alterego: The real key goes like this: KeyDown->KeyClick->KeyClick->...->KeyUp Jul 13 18:00:47 m'kay Jul 13 18:01:00 and the Chr? Works for something useful? Jul 13 18:01:04 alterego: try KeyClick first, if it does not work, send all three in sequence Jul 13 18:01:11 alterego: And I doubt F4 still works Jul 13 18:01:35 RST38h: Do you happen to have scratchbox running at the moment? ;) Jul 13 18:01:58 alterego: Nope. WinXP. Jul 13 18:02:02 Urgh Jul 13 18:02:07 alterego: And I am an SB2 person anyway Jul 13 18:02:19 Oh, m'kay Jul 13 18:02:21 SP2 Jul 13 18:02:27 Let me check the source, hang on. Jul 13 18:02:40 RST38h: I'm pretty sure F4 does still work. Jul 13 18:02:51 alterego: how have you checked? Jul 13 18:02:54 BT keyboard? Jul 13 18:02:57 so, havve to go Jul 13 18:03:02 BRB Jul 13 18:03:06 bb Jul 13 18:03:08 RST38h: no, just the source, I don't have sbox to check. Jul 13 18:03:16 Is anyone here running scratchbox right now? :) Jul 13 18:03:21 me Jul 13 18:03:33 tuliobaars: have you got the emulator running with a maemo5 desktop? Jul 13 18:03:59 Oh, now, but Qemu should help? Jul 13 18:04:07 No ... Jul 13 18:04:13 sorry Jul 13 18:04:24 alterego: I am. Jul 13 18:04:27 my sbox is for diablo sdk only Jul 13 18:04:31 sorry Jul 13 18:04:36 so, bb Jul 13 18:05:31 Ah, m'kay Jul 13 18:05:58 alterego: why isn't MADDE good enough for you? Jul 13 18:06:00 alterego: why do you ask? Jul 13 18:06:16 Because I need to see if F4 works in the emulator :P Jul 13 18:06:27 Because I don't have a device with an F4 key :) Jul 13 18:06:41 alterego: why do you need F4 anyway? Jul 13 18:06:52 Because F4 "should" trigger the application menu. Jul 13 18:06:53 alterego: I thought you want to open an app menu progmatically Jul 13 18:06:59 alterego: aaah... Jul 13 18:07:01 okay. Jul 13 18:07:06 :) Jul 13 18:07:18 kerio: switching to GSM with netmon open works like a charm Jul 13 18:08:24 RST38h: http://qt.gitorious.net/+qt-developers/qt/x11-maemo/blobs/4.6-fremantle-pr1.2/src/gui/kernel/qapplication_x11.cpp Jul 13 18:08:31 Line 3381 -> 3388 Jul 13 18:09:21 wtf. Why isn't my xephyr opening? What went broken with scrathbox after updating Ubuntu? Jul 13 18:09:28 kerio: switching back to DUAL works as well Jul 13 18:09:28 Heh Jul 13 18:09:46 I get this in terminal when trying to launch xephyr: hildon-desktop[28590]: GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - cannot open display: :2 Jul 13 18:09:56 and after that it segfaults :-/ Jul 13 18:10:15 scratchbox terminal is working just fine. Jul 13 18:10:22 mpff, no xchat on new device yet Jul 13 18:10:51 ahha Jul 13 18:10:58 D-Iivil: you need to "export DISPLAY=:2" Jul 13 18:11:02 in scratchbox Jul 13 18:11:06 is that thing defined though? Jul 13 18:11:11 RST38h: yes Jul 13 18:11:28 alterego: I'm using the start_xephyr.sh to launch it. Jul 13 18:11:38 Oh, Jul 13 18:13:22 alterego: could you post XSend* thing again? Jul 13 18:13:28 hello konttori Jul 13 18:13:46 RST38h: hi Jul 13 18:14:13 well.. didn't need the graphical emulator anyways :-/ Jul 13 18:16:37 RST38h: http://pastie.org/1042846 Jul 13 18:18:36 bbiab Jul 13 18:19:58 D-Iivil: that error means that app can't connect to xserver Jul 13 18:20:04 D-Iivil: so it's either not running Jul 13 18:20:11 D-Iivil: or not running on display :2 Jul 13 18:20:21 D-Iivil: or it's not configured to accept connections from that client Jul 13 18:20:34 or all of the above Jul 13 18:21:01 jacekowski: okay... well... how to debug or even get it up and running again? It worked fine before upgrading Ubuntu from 9 to 10. Jul 13 18:21:31 alterego: root must be the root window of screen Jul 13 18:25:37 jacekowski: hmm... synaptis is offering an upgrade for xserver. Will try to install it and see if it works then :) Jul 13 18:26:03 synaptic. Jul 13 18:28:06 DocScrutinizer: then it's probably related to my weird situation Jul 13 18:28:28 h3g italy uses tim (the main provider) as a fallback when 3g is not available Jul 13 18:28:47 i'm not sure if it's considered roaming Jul 13 18:32:15 jacekowski: when trying to run the Xephyr it gives me: Unrecognized option: -kb Jul 13 18:32:40 jacekowski: I'm trying to run it with this command: Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -kb & Jul 13 18:34:18 Okay... I should learn to read the wiki :D Jul 13 18:34:27 "Ubuntu 10.04 users using the package in the repositories will have to run the same command without the -host-cursor and -kb, however the terminal window will have to stay open." Jul 13 18:34:31 Works now :-P Jul 13 18:35:34 But cannot see my cursor in Xephyr window... :D Jul 13 18:37:06 Nevermind. Just added the -host-cursor back to the launching command and it's working now. Jul 13 18:37:30 So alterego, what did you want me to test? Jul 13 18:38:16 Load up a program that has an app menu, and press F4 on your keyboard and tell me if it opens the menu Jul 13 18:39:12 alterego: by app menu you mean? Jul 13 18:40:15 alterego: in conversations it indeed opens up a menu. Jul 13 18:40:28 alterego: but in browser it does not. Jul 13 18:41:57 microB is weird Jul 13 18:43:57 *modem* is weird. Still(!) no decent USSD&servicecodes Jul 13 18:44:12 meh, there's a ticket for it Jul 13 18:44:34 N900 is no phone, that's evident Jul 13 18:45:01 ussd? Jul 13 18:45:07 just a miracle how it got GSM cert Jul 13 18:45:13 service codes? Jul 13 18:45:21 *#61# Jul 13 18:45:43 what does that do? Jul 13 18:50:27 http://www.gsmcodes-online.de/Rufumleitungen/rufumleitungen.html Jul 13 18:50:52 DocScrutinizer: would it be of any use to be able to modify CMTS firmware? Jul 13 18:51:12 *#61# is a query if cal redirect on no accept is enabled Jul 13 18:51:26 jacekowski: probably Jul 13 18:51:57 http://www.mobilemania.de/facts+infos/gsmcodes.php Jul 13 18:52:06 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM-Code Jul 13 18:52:20 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstructured_Supplementary_Service_Data Jul 13 18:52:32 How can I easily do a call forwarding from my N900 to my fiancees N97 when I am on the move? Jul 13 18:53:07 DrGrov: that's the point - you can't Jul 13 18:53:31 Seriously, WTF? Jul 13 18:53:42 How the fuck does that not work? This is so crappy fucked up news Jul 13 18:54:24 because modem firmware/cellmo driver was built in a way where all the STANDARD codes do not work like they do on *every* other cellphone Jul 13 18:54:40 DocScrutinizer: Now Nokia has really fucked up things! Jul 13 18:54:42 DrGrov: there is a call forward thing in phone console Jul 13 18:55:02 Stskeeps: as crippled as can get Jul 13 18:55:08 Stskeeps: It does work I hope without any problems? Jul 13 18:56:00 Tomorrow I do not care who answers at Nokia Care or where ever else but I do get them to know that I am angry as hell. Jul 13 18:56:01 well, since PR1.2 USSD (*1xx#) seems to work Jul 13 18:56:16 but not the standard service codes Jul 13 18:56:39 well, i think i know how to wipe certificate block and program it again Jul 13 18:56:53 jacekowski: you do? that is great :) Jul 13 18:57:03 well, i'm sure about wipe Jul 13 18:57:10 i'm not sure about programming it again Jul 13 18:57:12 jacekowski: good, wiping is good to know :) Jul 13 18:57:24 because it looks like it may still need to be signed Jul 13 18:57:27 nah, always destroy first and then think what is happening :D Jul 13 18:58:00 who actually was so dumb at Nokia to even think about such an idiot idea to even not get call forwarding to work properly? Jul 13 18:58:18 DrGrov: the n900 is an internet tablet with a 3g data modem Jul 13 18:58:24 calling with it is a side effect Jul 13 18:58:25 its a phone Jul 13 18:58:27 and then even if we would change certificates to known value Jul 13 18:58:30 Mousey: tablet Jul 13 18:58:33 phone! Jul 13 18:58:36 tablet Jul 13 18:58:39 the n810 was a tablet =P Jul 13 18:58:45 *sniff* Jul 13 18:58:48 i miss that thing Jul 13 18:58:54 iPad is a phone? Jul 13 18:58:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N900 Jul 13 18:58:58 N900 is an upgraded N810 Jul 13 18:59:00 n900 > n810 Jul 13 18:59:06 you mean downgraded =( Jul 13 18:59:09 kerio: it is a fucking phone! Jul 13 18:59:19 it's a fucking tablet Jul 13 18:59:20 jacekowski: no calls Jul 13 18:59:27 even nokia sells it as a tablet Jul 13 18:59:27 everything with a 3G modem is a phone, obviously Jul 13 18:59:28 the phone app is a phone Jul 13 18:59:34 it is a god damn phone, and a tablet. both shit in the same package. Jul 13 18:59:50 its more a phone than a tablet Jul 13 18:59:55 sadl Jul 13 18:59:56 y Jul 13 19:00:00 my N810 can make calls.. Jul 13 19:00:04 * microlith refrains from sarcastic mockery Jul 13 19:00:23 btw. i've heard that HTC desire has worse battery Jul 13 19:00:43 btw, who cares. HTC doesn't run debian (derivatives) Jul 13 19:01:03 ^_^ Jul 13 19:01:12 yeah, who gives a fuck if the N900 does not have a WORKING call forwarding? Jul 13 19:01:21 God damn I get more and more irritated at all the flaws... Jul 13 19:01:43 When I do want to explore possibilities the answer always is "No, it does not work". or then it is a PITA Jul 13 19:01:51 get an n810. it'll be a long time before a better tablet is released again Jul 13 19:02:05 why is it better than the n900? Jul 13 19:02:10 well, instead of raging and griping here, why not sell it? Jul 13 19:02:26 Mousey: n900 is a tablet Jul 13 19:02:34 DrGrov: did you even try ussd widget and such? Jul 13 19:02:35 bigger keyboard, bigger screen, better feel in hand, HOST MODE USB Jul 13 19:02:54 is call forwarding really broken? Jul 13 19:02:56 Mousey: so... doesn't fit in a pocket and has host mode Jul 13 19:02:56 better speakers Jul 13 19:03:02 i see Jul 13 19:03:09 i thought you can set it up from settings Jul 13 19:03:11 http://www.gsmcodes-online.de/Handycodes/handycodes.html Jul 13 19:03:11 its a tablet, pocket fittery is optional Jul 13 19:03:20 microlith: you think i will give up on the N900 so easily? You gotta be kidding me Jul 13 19:03:21 its always fit in my pocket Jul 13 19:03:24 not for N900 muhahaha Jul 13 19:03:40 Settings -> Phone -> Call Forwarding Jul 13 19:03:41 there Jul 13 19:03:44 Stskeeps: I will try it out, I had some minor issues though. Jul 13 19:04:27 jacekowski: will try that way first. if it does not work i will try the ussd widget. Jul 13 19:04:30 * Mousey goes off and prices n810's NIB.. if there are any left =( Jul 13 19:05:10 microlith: you think I bought the N900 just to sell it after 6 months? Jul 13 19:05:52 DrGrov: you reminded me of all the whine posts on TMO Jul 13 19:05:54 Do not get me wrong because of my rage towards the N900. I do consider it the best phone/tablet out there. Jul 13 19:06:12 Stskeeps: USSD widget does not work for service codes. just tested it >:-(( Jul 13 19:06:14 such rage is unhealthy, especially over a piece of consumer electronics Jul 13 19:06:28 microlith: have you ever seen me whine about something that is unrelated? Jul 13 19:06:49 I've seen too many whiners to care Jul 13 19:07:48 DrGrov: it's definitle one of the most crappy phones I ever seen Jul 13 19:08:31 DocScrutinizer: well, crappy can be defined in many ways. i kind of like it for my purposes. Jul 13 19:08:45 it seems the 3G chipset actually wasn't designed for phone usage originally Jul 13 19:08:46 microlith: yeah, you do sound a bit naggy unfortunately. Jul 13 19:09:37 same cellmo as in other phones, go check the isi headers, has entries several years back Jul 13 19:10:27 Perhaps time to wait for a new better phone then... Jul 13 19:11:53 Nokia has really gotten worse over time Jul 13 19:11:55 n900's still a quite cheap developer device Jul 13 19:12:01 DrGrov: nokia C2-00 Jul 13 19:12:04 epic phone Jul 13 19:12:12 well, *two* epic phones Jul 13 19:12:18 i kinda hope meego on n900 might help some issues though Jul 13 19:12:18 kerio: you got any links to show? Jul 13 19:12:29 it's not out yet Jul 13 19:12:31 Stskeeps: i would love to see meego working well on n900. Jul 13 19:12:45 kerio: ah yes, it is part of the new C-series phone that will replace the mid-range devices? Jul 13 19:12:58 i think it replaces the low-end devices Jul 13 19:13:05 http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/06/03/dual-sim-nokia-c2-revealed-photo-gallery/ Jul 13 19:13:08 DrGrov: we are even going with a open telephony stack, so its nice Jul 13 19:13:17 Stskeeps: YOU DO? :) Jul 13 19:13:26 DrGrov: ofono, etc Jul 13 19:13:27 Stskeeps: gOd damn this makes me happy :) Jul 13 19:13:53 of course this doesnt mean the celluar software is open, but everything on linux side.. Jul 13 19:14:00 kerio: but the phone looks hideous Jul 13 19:14:10 huh? looks nice to me Jul 13 19:14:16 especially the blue one Jul 13 19:14:25 kerio: it surely does look like a child's toy Jul 13 19:14:26 DrGrov: parts are already out, speech path, etc Jul 13 19:14:46 DrGrov: needs more blinkenlights? Jul 13 19:15:04 Stskeeps: good good :) i do hope the phone capability will become good in a day-to-day environment. Jul 13 19:15:09 it looks like a... phone Jul 13 19:15:18 DrGrov: yeah, me too Jul 13 19:15:20 kerio: no, the form factor i kind of like. i do have a 3120 classic i will donate to my father. Jul 13 19:15:36 kerio: but one thing i find utterly hideous on the phone is actually nothing to do with the form factor. Jul 13 19:15:41 DrGrov, which part of the phone is missing for you? is it just the call forwarding? Jul 13 19:15:44 Is the maemo.org only non nokia repository on N900? Jul 13 19:15:47 DrGrov: what, then? Jul 13 19:17:39 lcuk: no, call forwarding is basically just a good minor thing to have around when needed. I would love to have something a bit more in it. I gotta think a few minutes to really let you know what it is. I am trying to figure out the word in English, I only think of it in in Swedish. Jul 13 19:18:29 kerio: the button size would have to be bigger i think. surely i am young but i like my buttons bigger. Jul 13 19:18:51 that's what she said! Jul 13 19:18:53 kerio: and no real space between the buttons, feels everything is cluttered. Jul 13 19:19:21 lcuk: now I have the word in English. Jul 13 19:20:32 lcuk: damn this, i do keep forgetting all the time. i should start writing down memo notes.... Jul 13 19:21:13 DrGrov, please do, constructive words are always requested and not taken lightly Jul 13 19:21:30 Stskeeps, the callui of meego Jul 13 19:21:38 bug #8830 Jul 13 19:21:39 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8830 Dialer does not accept MMI codes (*#) from 3GPP TS 22.030 Jul 13 19:21:42 is it open, so people could theoretically replace the entire ux Jul 13 19:21:57 lcuk: i try my best not to complain too much. i would like to phrase my ideas as more constructive but some things just make my blood boil. Jul 13 19:22:25 lcuk, yes Jul 13 19:22:31 DrGrov, yeah i just tend to bite tongue ;) Jul 13 19:22:34 :) Stskeeps Jul 13 19:22:37 as in meego rpm, harmattan prolly not Jul 13 19:22:46 lcuk: i try to put in more Swedish snus in my upper lip to cool myself :) Jul 13 19:22:52 is there a way to enable global autorotation? Jul 13 19:22:56 then that calls for more debian patches on meego Jul 13 19:23:36 Comment #4 from Andre Klapper: So for the upcoming PR1.2 release Nokia implemented most of the stuff from TS 22.030 --- I see, I see. MUHAHAHAH *sob* Jul 13 19:23:54 DocScrutinizer: :( Jul 13 19:23:57 you're not on 1.2, right? Jul 13 19:24:15 hi, all. Jul 13 19:24:16 me? I am right now Jul 13 19:24:27 got my n900 to turn on. Jul 13 19:24:32 that's why I rise this topic again Jul 13 19:25:41 oops, the easter egg Jul 13 19:25:44 lcuk: One thing I was thinking about recently is that there should be some more nicer feature rich "Conversations" things... Not 100% sure how I mean but I am thinking more of deeper interaction with Conversations. Not just the widgets but more like a feel to the messaging. Jul 13 19:25:46 i cut the ac adapter and just connect the wires straight to the battery for couple mins, fixed the problem. Jul 13 19:25:56 missed the easter egg Jul 13 19:25:57 DocScrutinizer: easter egg? what where? do spill Jul 13 19:26:14 * ShadowJK wonders if same modem as in N900 is in CS-15 Jul 13 19:26:20 Pauly: O_o Jul 13 19:26:30 DrGrov, i often want to use accelerometer and vibe unit and be able to shake device on one side of world and have the other side respond Jul 13 19:26:31 hahaha wat Jul 13 19:26:47 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8830#c8 Jul 13 19:26:48 Bug 8830: Dialer does not accept MMI codes (*#) from 3GPP TS 22.030 Jul 13 19:26:51 but that would get abused for risque things and potentially void warranty Jul 13 19:27:29 lcuk: remote handshake? Jul 13 19:27:29 (physical handshake, i mean) Jul 13 19:27:32 lcuk: perhaps not what I was thinking about but yes, that would be amazingly cool :) Jul 13 19:27:46 kerio, remote interaction Jul 13 19:27:47 Considering at the time, similar spec Nokia modems only appeared in CS-15 (which is a usb internet dongle) Jul 13 19:27:49 Is the maemo.org the only non nokia repository on N900? Jul 13 19:27:51 however or whatever you use it for Jul 13 19:27:52 hmm there are too few "shake-to-control- apps for maemi Jul 13 19:27:53 stskeeps: i drained n900 battery and it would'nt charge throught the micro-usb port so i went straight to the battery Jul 13 19:27:57 RZ: mozilla has one for fennec Jul 13 19:27:58 if you pat your device on the head Jul 13 19:28:01 it shakes :) Jul 13 19:28:40 * lcuk nearly has prototype for something uber cool working Jul 13 19:28:51 Pauly: isn't that risky? Ö.ö Jul 13 19:29:27 lcuk: PM me. Got a cool idea for you since you like testing all kind of crazy things. Jul 13 19:29:30 rz - theres potentially other repos for specific programs Jul 13 19:29:34 ya but i didnt feel like waiting 3+ days for an extrnal battery charger Jul 13 19:29:46 but none that i know of with the scope or awesomeness of maemo.org Jul 13 19:29:56 hmm... i installed a build of chromium some time ago, that someone here made Jul 13 19:30:04 DrGrov, ive got 3 days to submit a proposal for something Jul 13 19:30:06 who was it and is there a newer version? Jul 13 19:30:17 lcuk: so PM me now! :) Jul 13 19:30:21 and i have to *know* it will work before i can finish it Jul 13 19:30:28 so, no im not doing anything more :P Jul 13 19:30:44 lcuk: I can not guarantee that it works but I am sure you can get a cool laugh out of it Jul 13 19:30:48 DrGrov, shout publicly tho :P Jul 13 19:30:56 okay, I will shout it out then Jul 13 19:30:58 Pauly: congrats :-) Jul 13 19:30:58 So... Jul 13 19:31:27 Damn this brain of mine! Jul 13 19:31:33 but maemo has only one repo? Jul 13 19:31:38 Fuck it! I do not get my things together Jul 13 19:31:47 lol DrGrov Jul 13 19:31:58 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the help, but the fail safe 32 min charge did nnot seem to charge phone at all. Jul 13 19:32:01 Oauky: what happened when you connected charger to n900? Jul 13 19:32:27 I could swear there was at least one more. I might be mistaking. Jul 13 19:33:07 rz, the older maemo devices suffered from fragmentation, and a repository aggregator called gronmayer exists Jul 13 19:33:13 lcuk: How can I get another boot video except the Nokia hands? Jul 13 19:33:20 which lists all the repos from back then, some may have n900 repos Jul 13 19:33:22 lcuk: I want something a lot lot lot lot more ubersexier! Jul 13 19:33:32 DrGrov: there's a way Jul 13 19:33:33 search forums, theres many bootvideos Jul 13 19:33:35 search the wiki Jul 13 19:33:49 and instructions for changing, i think theres even an app Jul 13 19:33:50 Pauly: I told you it won't work with arbitrary random charger Jul 13 19:33:50 there are some *really* cool premade boot videos Jul 13 19:33:53 I do hope it is not too difficult to pull through since I do hate to work as root Jul 13 19:34:14 I love to work as root on my desktop but not on the phone Jul 13 19:34:49 DrGrov: http://www.garyshood.com/root/ Jul 13 19:35:08 now i am going to flash it, YAY! Jul 13 19:35:33 kerio: thanks, gotta read it through first :D lol Jul 13 19:37:30 kerio: so what you are trying to say is that I can not fuck up my / on the N900 ? Jul 13 19:38:10 DrGrov: If you are so incompetent that you can't even handle using bash without typing rm -rf / every few commands, just stop reading here. Go back to the Ubuntu forums where all of your problems are packaged away for you in nice binaries because you can't even handle installing a program from source. Jul 13 19:38:20 :P Jul 13 19:39:04 kerio, if people have to resort to dropping to root because developers are being lazy then perhaps you should go back to windows Jul 13 19:39:17 :p Jul 13 19:39:32 lcuk: always run as root! you'll grow a full beard! Jul 13 19:39:53 i tried that Jul 13 19:39:55 what the hell is going on Jul 13 19:40:22 ear0wax, i am letting off steam, kerio is growing a beard Jul 13 19:40:31 i already have one! Jul 13 19:40:34 because i run as root! :D Jul 13 19:40:55 I have a beard, Im bout to shave it off im tired of hair in my mouth Jul 13 19:41:24 I had a real fully bush as a beard but I got sick and tired of it since I could not taste the real bush Jul 13 19:41:32 I just kept tasting my own full bush Jul 13 19:42:30 * microlith facepalm Jul 13 19:42:34 DrGrov, congratulations, you win the award for stopping the chan Jul 13 19:42:50 lcuk: Hell yeah! Jul 13 19:42:54 I know I am the man! Jul 13 19:43:04 * DrGrov bows down in gratitude Jul 13 19:48:44 http://www.arib.or.jp/IMT-2000/V730Jul09/5_Appendix/R99/22/22030-340.pdf is of 1999 an can be considered an absolute basic requirement for every User Equipment capable to do GSM (no matter if it's called a phone) - please vote for bug #8830 ! Jul 13 19:48:45 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8830 Dialer does not accept MMI codes (*#) from 3GPP TS 22.030 Jul 13 19:50:10 lcuk: I managed to do something right at least Jul 13 19:51:00 actually Nokia has implemented a complete set of compliant code handling in about every phone they ever built. I just can't see why they failed on N900, they just had to copy over from somewhere else Jul 13 19:51:52 I mean, hell, even my year2000 6210 knew how to do each single one of those codes Jul 13 19:53:26 DocScrutinizer: because N900 isn't a phone Jul 13 19:53:38 but has a phone function.. Jul 13 19:54:04 anyone know a way to default the phone app to SIP? Jul 13 19:54:15 luke-jr: that's no excuse. TS22.030 applies to User Equipment Jul 13 19:54:43 N900 *IS* a User Equipment for GSM Jul 13 19:56:24 my N900 apparently just decided it isn't going on 2G/3G unless I select network manually... Jul 13 19:56:26 luke-jr: it has a Man Machine Interface to enter numbers, so MMI codes are mandatory according to TS22.030 Jul 13 19:57:37 I'm not shy to ask 3GPP board about that issue Jul 13 19:59:38 6.5.1 Jul 13 19:59:40 General Jul 13 19:59:41 The supplementary services shall be controlled in accordance with the procedures described below. All User Equipment Jul 13 19:59:43 with MMI shall be able to be controlled in this way, to minimize the confusion of users using different types of User Jul 13 19:59:44 Equipment (quite likely, due to the use of the SIM IC card) and to permit the introduction by a PLMN operator of new Jul 13 19:59:46 supplementary services, not defined at the time of the design of a User Equipment. These procedures are based on those Jul 13 19:59:47 recommended by ETSI/HF and ITU-T Recommendation E.131. Jul 13 19:59:48 anyhow Jul 13 19:59:59 I can't manually select AT&T Jul 13 20:00:04 shouldn't N900 let me connect to roam? Jul 13 20:05:14 Nota bene: TS22.030 does NOT specify a comprehensive set of codes to support, but instead specifies a way for UE to handle MMI that were ""not defined at the time of the design of a User Equipment"". So I really don't get what Nokia is doing there, with just supporting one or 2 out of the whole range of possible codes. Quite obviously the interpretation of a code's semantics is not in the domain of the dialer, nor is it the domain of the Jul 13 20:05:16 modem firmware Jul 13 20:07:31 smells like someone implemented multiplication by a hardcoded 1x1 lookup table, rather than an algorithm Jul 13 20:07:51 DocScrutinizer: where? Jul 13 20:08:10 and lookup tables are awesome Jul 13 20:08:26 fo MMI (that was a metaphor, maybe not a very good one) Jul 13 20:10:06 hey guys. Jul 13 20:10:12 Hello,, I have an application written in javascript.. is there any way to port this application on maemo?? Jul 13 20:12:33 rohit2: run it in the browser? Jul 13 20:15:43 I seek for some advice for my Sticky Notes app. Jul 13 20:16:51 actually then it won't suit the UI requirements for phone.. also I want to develop a save feature for the app.. my app can't setup database through a browser// Jul 13 20:17:23 From a usability standpoint, would it do any good to have an option to change the font or the text colour for selected text inside a note? Jul 13 20:17:33 It actually can save rohit2 Jul 13 20:17:55 http://tiddlywiki.com/ for example - sort of works on n900, and can locally save. Jul 13 20:17:56 However. Jul 13 20:19:32 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6591 Jul 13 20:19:32 Bug 6591: Javascript security settings do not persist (tiddlywiki.com) Jul 13 20:19:35 is annoying Jul 13 20:20:53 Venemo: is this the sticky notes app with three (?) icons at the top to do stuff? Jul 13 20:21:05 And a semitransparent note on the desktop? Jul 13 20:21:58 Venemo: hmm Jul 13 20:22:00 i say useless Jul 13 20:22:01 SpeedEvil: yeah. but they are on the bottom Jul 13 20:22:14 fuck rich text Jul 13 20:22:42 I think the ability to pop between a big and a small font might have plusses Jul 13 20:22:48 but... Jul 13 20:23:22 well, some sort of rich text will be definitely there, as it is a popular feature request. Jul 13 20:23:55 so: bold, italic, underline, strike-through for selected texts will be there Jul 13 20:24:07 any simple way to dump the boot log to a file? Jul 13 20:24:20 I tried prepending /sbin/preinit with exec >/bootlog 2>&1 Jul 13 20:24:27 but apparently that doesn't cover everything Jul 13 20:33:29 DrGrov: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8830#c17 for your reference, when you're going ass-kicking Jul 13 20:33:30 Bug 8830: Dialer does not accept MMI codes (*#) from 3GPP TS 22.030 Jul 13 20:34:56 MohammadAG51, hey Jul 13 20:35:19 DocScrutinizer, hey Jul 13 20:35:22 luke-jr: obviously it wont cover exe calls that do their own redirecting of stdout/stderr Jul 13 20:35:44 DocScrutinizer: yeah, but stuff still goes to console... Jul 13 20:36:00 umm Jul 13 20:36:09 DocScrutinizer, i know you and MohammadAG51 are very close, both your nations hate mine. and you talk with him a lot... i wanted to ask you to say hello from me and that i miss him Jul 13 20:36:37 DocScrutinizer: I will read that through. Jul 13 20:36:41 I think I just broke my rootfs :( Jul 13 20:36:48 Uh-oh ... Jul 13 20:36:52 ZogG: dunno what 'my nation' does. Be assured it's not even close to what I do Jul 13 20:37:12 DocScrutinizer, but you do hate me =) Jul 13 20:37:43 luke-jr, what you mean broke, like disk itslef or just os? Jul 13 20:37:48 not really. I may think about that once more though :-P Jul 13 20:37:57 ZogG: I did a bad change to /sbin/preinit Jul 13 20:38:04 ZogG: I miss MohammadAG51 as well Jul 13 20:38:11 any ideas to recover, other than reflashing? Jul 13 20:38:21 luke-jr can't boot at all? Jul 13 20:38:29 nope Jul 13 20:38:35 DocScrutinizer: It seems like a huge problem. Jul 13 20:38:44 luke-jr, so you can't =)) Jul 13 20:38:49 NOLO? Jul 13 20:38:51 ZogG: maybe his card elapsed a 4 digits debit for roaming abroad meanwhile Jul 13 20:38:52 DocScrutinizer: I wonder if it is right that I call Nokia Care and yell there or should I try to yell even higher? Jul 13 20:39:10 DocScrutinizer, or he dombed himself ) Jul 13 20:39:38 DrGrov, what problem do you have? Jul 13 20:39:50 ZogG: this one, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8830#c17 Jul 13 20:39:51 Bug 8830: Dialer does not accept MMI codes (*#) from 3GPP TS 22.030 Jul 13 20:39:57 I have a /sbin/preinit.orig backup... Jul 13 20:40:01 DrGrov: wondering myself what to do about it Jul 13 20:40:26 DocScrutinizer, figured out with meego acc? Jul 13 20:40:47 the 8830 MMI shit? nope Jul 13 20:41:06 DocScrutinizer: Perhaps a joint e-mail to send ? Jul 13 20:41:29 but as the bug seems to sit in modem firmware, I don't expect any better results with meego whatsoever Jul 13 20:42:28 DrGrov: maybe talk to 'the council' - though not even they seem to have voice, see MyNokia SMS issue Jul 13 20:42:44 DocScrutinizer, i hope they work on driver as well and than gave them to maemo too =) Jul 13 20:43:49 anyone here managed to build a kernel for N900 that can boot PR1.2? Jul 13 20:44:14 kernel-power works Jul 13 20:44:21 afaik Jul 13 20:44:29 I need someone who can build it ;0 Jul 13 20:44:42 so they can make me a version w/ a custom cmdline Jul 13 20:44:44 :) Jul 13 20:46:17 you know you can supply a cmdline wiht the flasher? Jul 13 20:46:47 SpeedEvil: that didn't work on N810, and doesn't appear to on N900 either Jul 13 20:47:11 it works on n900 Jul 13 20:47:22 maybe a Flasher 3.0 bug then :/ Jul 13 20:47:25 ah Jul 13 20:47:36 Stskeeps: can you build PR1.2 kernels? :) Jul 13 20:48:18 luke-jr: no, too sleepy Jul 13 20:48:26 :( Jul 13 21:01:24 Stskeeps: nope, it doesn't... Jul 13 21:02:27 that is, flasher 3.5 can't change boot params either Jul 13 21:02:50 nothing can Jul 13 21:02:55 it's hardcoded iirc Jul 13 21:03:11 jacekowski: can you build PR1.2-compat kernels? :D Jul 13 21:03:36 what do you mean by pr1.2 compat kernel Jul 13 21:03:40 it's just a normal kerne Jul 13 21:03:46 with all nokia modules Jul 13 21:03:46 jacekowski: LOL, no it isn't Jul 13 21:04:01 anyhow, I mean something that can boot Maemo Jul 13 21:04:08 well, yeah Jul 13 21:04:18 in my attempting to debug why my own kernels won't boot, I broke /sbin/preinit Jul 13 21:04:30 to recover, I need a working kernel that uses /sbin/preinit.orig Jul 13 21:04:39 could you make me one please? :) Jul 13 21:04:48 hmmm Jul 13 21:04:56 something like that Jul 13 21:04:59 that can be done Jul 13 21:05:59 jacekowski: ty :D Jul 13 21:06:21 jacekowski: also, I'm not sure it's necessary, but I *might* need bootreason hard-coded to pwr_key Jul 13 21:06:35 I can't seem to find a way to boot with power-key and also load a kernel over USB Jul 13 21:11:32 DrGrov: ask here.... Jul 13 21:12:24 jacekowski: I'm waiting on you, correct? or do I need to give more info? Jul 13 21:13:10 waiting Jul 13 21:13:17 k Jul 13 21:13:50 So, I do find that the call forwarding on the N900 should be addressed quite rapidly. Feels like a high-end device like the N900 should support call forwarding by default without any playing around with config files nor having to do much of anything to get it working. Even a 20 regular cell phone has a working call forwarding that just works, plain and simple. Does it really have to get this difficult on such a technically advanced phon Jul 13 21:13:50 e/tablet ? Jul 13 21:14:13 DrGrov: it doesn't work? Jul 13 21:14:15 :/ Jul 13 21:15:44 DrGrov: Issues like this are usually dealt with by reporting a bug. Jul 13 21:16:01 lbt: and what happens when I report a bug? Nothing much perhaps? Jul 13 21:16:18 it often seems that way :) Jul 13 21:16:20 I vaguely remember a call forwarding app, so that suggests someone thought the included call forwarding doesn't work Jul 13 21:16:29 DrGrov: in theory, the people who fix bugs looks at it Jul 13 21:16:35 ShadowJK: That is what I mean Jul 13 21:16:45 but I think it is just that we don't see the work going on behind the scenes Jul 13 21:16:57 It should be there by default and no need to jump around in the phone and installing things Jul 13 21:17:27 DrGrov: call forwarding isn't exactly a standard feature Jul 13 21:17:30 luke-jr: yes, in theory I can agree but in practice even? Jul 13 21:17:47 luke-jr: call forwarding not a standard feature? may I ask that when were you born and have not seen call fowarding?? Jul 13 21:18:30 DrGrov: I was born in 1985. I recently noted a lack of call forwarding on my wife's standard cellular service. Jul 13 21:18:46 luke-jr: done almost Jul 13 21:18:49 luke-jr: but Jul 13 21:18:58 * ShadowJK shrugs Jul 13 21:19:05 if your phone will explode/melt/do anything Jul 13 21:19:09 don't blame it on me Jul 13 21:19:12 jacekowski: hehe, ok Jul 13 21:19:16 luke-jr: I do find call forwarding to be a absolute must on any phone. Jul 13 21:19:34 DrGrov: the only time I can see it as useful is people who want Google Voice voicemail...\ Jul 13 21:19:57 maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/zImage Jul 13 21:20:06 it should work and ignore init option Jul 13 21:20:39 and run preinit.orig instead Jul 13 21:20:47 One problem with bugs is that bugs are only behaviours that deviate from the intended/designed, so if the design spec says call forwarding should work exactly the way it does now, then it's not a bug, but a feature request ;p Jul 13 21:20:48 luke-jr: I do tons of phone calls each day and I really depend on call forwarding to work since if I run out of battery it will nicely revert it to my work phone or vice versa Jul 13 21:21:21 DrGrov, what's the issue with call forwarding currently? Jul 13 21:21:33 jacekowski: doesn't seem to work :( Jul 13 21:21:40 luke-jr: what's the problem? Jul 13 21:21:44 jacekowski: no idea, no fbcon Jul 13 21:21:52 it just reboots after N seconds Jul 13 21:21:54 still watching bleach Jul 13 21:21:55 heh Jul 13 21:22:08 get it into r&d mode Jul 13 21:22:10 it is Jul 13 21:22:21 watchdog disabled? Jul 13 21:22:26 unlikely Jul 13 21:22:29 and lifeguard restart? Jul 13 21:22:29 how do I do that? :P Jul 13 21:22:34 with r&d flags Jul 13 21:24:11 still no-go Jul 13 21:24:33 hmmmm Jul 13 21:24:38 fbcon variant? :) Jul 13 21:24:41 and nothing on the screen? Jul 13 21:24:55 NOKIA logo, R&D icon, kernel version etc Jul 13 21:25:01 'no initfs \o/' Jul 13 21:25:27 hmm Jul 13 21:25:36 after it rebooted, now it's just sitting there Jul 13 21:25:42 no reboot, but no progress either Jul 13 21:25:47 wtf. when did everybody in bleach learn how to fly around? Jul 13 21:25:49 well, that's coming from preinit Jul 13 21:26:43 hmmm Jul 13 21:26:50 let me just check something Jul 13 21:26:54 fbcon I think will help debug Jul 13 21:27:05 especially now that it isn't rebooting Jul 13 21:31:07 ok Jul 13 21:31:10 building Jul 13 21:34:11 real 2m31.820s Jul 13 21:34:11 user 7m57.694s Jul 13 21:34:11 sys 0m28.030s Jul 13 21:34:34 luke-jr: Jul 13 21:34:36 luke-jr: same address Jul 13 21:35:14 it's trying to use /sbin/preinit Jul 13 21:35:19 not /sbin/preinit.orig Jul 13 21:35:21 :( Jul 13 21:35:32 how do you know that? Jul 13 21:35:46 my /sbin/preinit problem is that I rm /dev/console :) Jul 13 21:35:53 and it's complaining about failing to open it Jul 13 21:36:44 where do you see that it's trying to run that /sbin/preinit? Jul 13 21:36:57 if it wasn't, I wouldn't get a console error Jul 13 21:37:07 since /dev/console would exist Jul 13 21:37:11 Macer: that's not a bleach thing - in japan everyone can fly. Jul 13 21:37:14 ...assuming a dynamic /dev :| Jul 13 21:37:24 nah, it's not dynamic at that stage Jul 13 21:37:28 ouch Jul 13 21:37:31 I fail Jul 13 21:37:41 ok, how about another approach... Jul 13 21:38:04 compile-in ext2 support, and try to boot /sbin/init on root=/dev/mmcblk0p5 ? Jul 13 21:38:05 what is complaining btw Jul 13 21:38:06 :) Jul 13 21:38:07 kernel? Jul 13 21:38:14 no, something in preinit I think Jul 13 21:38:22 that can be fixed Jul 13 21:39:06 hmm Jul 13 21:39:15 maybe just init=/bin/sh even actually Jul 13 21:39:29 except I probably won't be able to load a keymap with digits Jul 13 21:39:40 give me a sec Jul 13 21:42:25 ok Jul 13 21:42:26 same file Jul 13 21:42:31 that might work Jul 13 21:43:15 hmm maybe no Jul 13 21:43:40 try it Jul 13 21:45:16 nope Jul 13 21:45:19 what was that supposed to do Jul 13 21:46:14 create /dev/console Jul 13 21:46:56 any specific message Jul 13 21:47:02 or what? Jul 13 21:48:25 the final msg is always "Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!" Jul 13 21:48:38 that's ok Jul 13 21:48:40 also Jul 13 21:48:43 now try the previous one Jul 13 21:48:47 bootup reason in log says usb Jul 13 21:48:51 i mean, previous kernel Jul 13 21:49:13 ZogG: ping MohammadAG51 :-) Jul 13 21:49:16 jacekowski: same Jul 13 21:49:29 shush :P Jul 13 21:49:43 jacekowski: maybe init=/bin/sh > Jul 13 21:49:44 ? Jul 13 21:50:10 maybe Jul 13 21:51:18 ok Jul 13 21:51:25 same address agan Jul 13 21:51:28 again* Jul 13 21:52:40 nope :| Jul 13 21:53:15 is 2.6.28 too old for devtmpfs? Jul 13 21:53:38 yeah Jul 13 21:53:57 root=/dev/mmcblk0p5 init=/sbin/init Jul 13 21:53:59 plz Jul 13 21:54:05 try this one Jul 13 21:54:38 no-go; what was that? Jul 13 21:54:58 hmmm Jul 13 21:55:05 SpeedEvil: hahha! Jul 13 21:56:42 jacekowski: ? root=/dev/mmcblk0p5 init=/sbin/init Jul 13 21:56:55 sure Jul 13 21:56:57 just a sec Jul 13 21:57:11 jacekowski: also, I suspect I know why your create-devconsole one failed: /dev/console exists, but it's not a device node Jul 13 21:58:35 luke-jr: now Jul 13 22:00:28 jacekowski: can't open root blah blah Jul 13 22:00:34 jacekowski: need ext2 compiled in Jul 13 22:00:38 hmm Jul 13 22:00:40 maybe Jul 13 22:00:59 rootfstype=ext2 also possibly Jul 13 22:01:08 since Maemo's kernel never detects it right Jul 13 22:03:02 init=/sbin/init root=/dev/mmcblk0p5 rootfstype=ext2 console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6 Jul 13 22:03:17 maybe make init=/bin/sh since I don't have fstab configured... Jul 13 22:03:47 luke-jr: try now Jul 13 22:04:25 hrm, still nope ;( Jul 13 22:04:35 I wonder if the kernel calls it mmcblk0p5 Jul 13 22:05:28 well, it has to exist in /dev Jul 13 22:05:39 for the kernel? Jul 13 22:05:42 yes Jul 13 22:05:49 kernel has builtin small initrd Jul 13 22:05:53 with that kind of shit Jul 13 22:06:09 are you downloading it over http? Jul 13 22:06:18 are you sure that you don't have some proxy there? Jul 13 22:06:25 in normal maemo bootup /dev/mmc* dosn't exist at preinit time Jul 13 22:06:25 sure Jul 13 22:06:49 normal cmdline has root=ubi0:rootfs :P Jul 13 22:07:47 *<---->1) device number in hexadecimal>represents itself Jul 13 22:07:47 *<---->2) /dev/nfs represents Root_NFS (0xff) Jul 13 22:07:47 *<---->3) /dev/ represents the device number of disk Jul 13 22:07:47 *<---->4) /dev/ represents the device number Jul 13 22:07:47 * of partition - device number of disk plus the partition number Jul 13 22:07:49 *<---->5) /dev/p - same as the above, that form is Jul 13 22:07:52 *<----> used when disk name of partitioned disk ends on a digit. Jul 13 22:07:54 luke-jr: btw, next time make a bootmenu.sh with mv preinit.orig preinit ;) Jul 13 22:08:04 or similar for whatever you've modded Jul 13 22:08:13 ShadowJK: preinit is pre-bootmenu too Jul 13 22:08:20 oh oops. Jul 13 22:09:36 jacekowski: can you be bothered to throw a busybox into an embedded initramfs and boot into that? :/ Jul 13 22:10:28 sure Jul 13 22:20:03 hmmm Jul 13 22:20:08 i can't find static busybox Jul 13 22:29:13 jacekowski: think one from N810 would work? XD Jul 13 22:30:08 will need to rebuild it to make it static, but... <.< Jul 13 22:30:25 nah Jul 13 22:30:27 i have one now Jul 13 22:30:36 ....k Jul 13 22:32:12 hello everyone Jul 13 22:32:24 is this maemo developers room Jul 13 22:32:42 Sometimes. Jul 13 22:33:03 Sometimes not. But, generally maemo related. Jul 13 22:33:22 then for most of the times? Jul 13 22:33:43 okay... so its same for Meego Jul 13 22:35:33 Abhi_: #maemo-devel Jul 13 22:35:56 luke-jr: try now Jul 13 22:36:08 So future versions will be of Maemo only or it will come under the name as Meego Jul 13 22:36:20 thank you jace Jul 13 22:37:35 luke-jr: does it work? Jul 13 22:43:04 jacekowski: no :( Jul 13 22:43:18 jacekowski: no :( Jul 13 22:44:08 floods something about /dev/tty* Jul 13 22:44:15 yep Jul 13 22:44:18 hmm Jul 13 22:44:26 what is exactly the message? Jul 13 22:44:45 init: can't log to /dev/tty5 Jul 13 22:44:51 Can't open /dev/tty4: No such file or directory Jul 13 22:45:15 process '-/bin/sh' (pid N) exited. Scheduling for restart. Jul 13 22:45:27 not sure what it says before all the flooding Jul 13 22:45:30 it scrolls off too fast Jul 13 22:46:54 wait a sec Jul 13 22:48:34 now Jul 13 22:50:22 luke-jr: Jul 13 22:56:46 jacekowski: same Jul 13 22:57:14 sorry, doing dishes in between attempts XD Jul 13 22:59:37 just flash it Jul 13 23:03:56 :( Jul 13 23:14:31 hmm, kernel with very similiar config is booting on BB Jul 13 23:20:28 hello Jul 13 23:24:23 what does combined mean as in the maemo 5 img RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin, not sure if its right? Jul 13 23:25:00 does that mean its the firmware and emmc image? Jul 13 23:25:30 No Jul 13 23:25:47 It has to do with which hardware revisions are supported Jul 13 23:26:21 jacekowski: is it at the URI? Jul 13 23:26:24 oh ok, im tryng to get all the files i need Jul 13 23:26:41 i have flasher and that bin. Jul 13 23:27:18 Pauly, need for? Jul 13 23:27:20 oh god, I can't stop myself, I don't want to, but I can't hold back. Pauly why are flashing your dead phone? Jul 13 23:27:35 i got it to work. Jul 13 23:27:46 u must have not been here Jul 13 23:28:11 Pauly actually charged the battery manually, by cutting the charger and connecting the pins directly Jul 13 23:28:32 kerio: really? Jul 13 23:28:38 GAN900: i bought it used, so i want it all fresh. Jul 13 23:28:41 at least, that's what he says Jul 13 23:28:41 ya Jul 13 23:28:47 she? Jul 13 23:28:49 took like 2 mins Jul 13 23:28:56 * asj shudders Jul 13 23:29:02 asj: yeah Jul 13 23:29:03 im a he!!!!! Jul 13 23:29:03 :/ Jul 13 23:29:07 but hey, it works Jul 13 23:29:19 Pauly: that wasn't an insult Jul 13 23:29:27 iits ok Jul 13 23:30:29 ~botsnack Jul 13 23:30:30 kerio: thanks Jul 13 23:30:39 all i need is the flasher, and that bin file. i think. Jul 13 23:31:06 Pauly: can you boot and charge the phone now? Jul 13 23:31:11 i'd wait until it's completely charged before doing anything else Jul 13 23:31:38 ya, its been powered on all day. Jul 13 23:32:30 had to use the back usb ports for the flasher to recognize my device. Jul 13 23:32:46 huh? Jul 13 23:32:52 how many ports are there? Jul 13 23:33:00 jacekowski: care to share? :| Jul 13 23:33:08 Pauly: did the charging led go from pulsing yellow to green? Jul 13 23:33:09 kerio: on his computer Jul 13 23:33:14 oh, i see Jul 13 23:33:29 kerio, two on the device Jul 13 23:33:44 sry i know im not specific. Jul 13 23:33:45 i have one Jul 13 23:33:47 kerio, the pads under the batt are USB, serial and cell stuff. Jul 13 23:33:55 ooh Jul 13 23:33:58 col Jul 13 23:34:00 er Jul 13 23:34:01 cool Jul 13 23:34:10 wait, what's the usb used for? Jul 13 23:34:18 Factory flashing Jul 13 23:34:25 Nokia has a cradle. Jul 13 23:34:38 thats cool Jul 13 23:38:29 how is transmission the torrent client in easy debian? Jul 13 23:38:42 stable, fast? Jul 13 23:38:53 unstable and very fast! Jul 13 23:39:23 cool cause i have the one for maemo and it sucks. Jul 13 23:39:47 GAN900: it's an independent port, or just a header for the same one? Jul 13 23:39:55 what's the facination with torrents on phones? it kills the bat in like 5mins Jul 13 23:40:07 luke-jr, I'm not sure. Jul 13 23:40:13 asj, 5 minutes? Jul 13 23:40:21 GAN900: ok, 2-4 hours Jul 13 23:40:34 asj, 2-4 hours? Jul 13 23:40:51 rotation on maemo sucks compared to meego's Jul 13 23:41:06 The fascination stems partly from novelty, and partly from convenience, I imagine. Jul 13 23:41:09 trip0: maemo has rotation? Jul 13 23:41:20 asj: it does in the dialer Jul 13 23:41:21 One less thing tyinh you to a larger computer. Jul 13 23:41:23 if you turn it on Jul 13 23:42:04 I wonder why "Nokia" decided to implement Maps in Mozilla ... Jul 13 23:42:06 i don't see why the maemo transmission should be different from the easy debian transmission Jul 13 23:43:07 kerio: it just does not respond with large files downloading. Jul 13 23:43:29 which i guess makes sence since its a mobile. Jul 13 23:49:04 im hungry Jul 13 23:49:37 * trip0 is hungry Jul 13 23:53:18 oh no! an LjL! Jul 13 23:53:26 mneptok :) Jul 13 23:54:11 * b-man eats a sandwich Jul 13 23:55:02 mneptok: do you have a maemo device? Jul 13 23:58:48 LjL: aye, an N900 Jul 13 23:59:03 mneptok: ooh you luck rich #¤%#"#NO CARRIER Jul 13 23:59:07 s/luck/lucky/ Jul 13 23:59:07 LjL meant: mneptok: ooh you lucky rich #¤%#"#NO CARRIER Jul 13 23:59:15 that i did. Jul 13 23:59:23 infobot: sit down. Jul 13 23:59:24 * infobot puts on 200lbs, sits on down. and squishes him Jul 13 23:59:25 smart bot, why isn't ours as smart? Jul 13 23:59:39 i blame lazy bot developers Jul 13 23:59:47 s/lazy bot developers/seveas/ Jul 13 23:59:57 ~lazy Jul 13 23:59:58 Hard work may pay off later, but LAZINESS pays off now! Work hard at hardly working! Jul 14 00:00:05 lol Jul 14 00:00:17 mneptok: i'm considering getting an N810 (N900 is way over budget) these days Jul 14 00:00:43 LjL: my father has an N810. despite being relegated to OS2008, it's still a great device. Jul 14 00:01:33 mneptok: paid $360 for mine, didn't even come with oem charger and tv- out cable Jul 14 00:01:43 mneptok: i'm hopeful i'll be able to run MeeGo on it in some time Jul 14 00:01:58 Pauly: that's a lot :\ i'm finding them at €100-150 on ebay Jul 14 00:02:39 LjL: and i called nokia, they said it's not in warranty cause it was damaged before Jul 14 00:04:38 LjL: huh Jul 14 00:04:42 i bought mine for 350€ Jul 14 00:04:43 used Jul 14 00:04:46 (barely) Jul 14 00:05:14 kerio: well... let me look for some past auctions Jul 14 00:06:34 kerio: http://cgi.ebay.it/Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet-WLAN-Bluetooth-GPS-GARANTIE-/330448382195 http://cgi.ebay.it/Nokia-N810-N-810-Internet-Tablet-MAEMO-OS-NEUWERTIG-/110552366838 http://cgi.ebay.it/NOKIA-N810-INTERNET-TABLET-/180524371720 Jul 14 00:16:18 ok, i'll be stupid and unadventurous and ask this: has anyone bricked their n900 by using the led pattern editor like the warning said? :) Jul 14 00:17:32 ljp: N810 is mostly dead, though a few of us are trying to get something current running on it Jul 14 00:17:39 LjL* Jul 14 00:17:41 sorry ljp Jul 14 00:18:54 LjL: the problem is Nokia never really finished the Linux port (getting things merged to mainline) and some of the hardware (battery charger and GPS) require binary blobs Jul 14 00:19:15 and most of the community (and all of Nokia) have moved on to N900 Jul 14 00:20:09 luke-jr: i was told the latter thing. i really can't/won't afford an N900 though, and an N810 seems like a cheap alternative with some appeal. i know that Mer is unmaintained now, but does it work decently? i'm not above using unmaintained software :P Jul 14 00:20:30 I don't think Mer ever really worked on N810 Jul 14 00:20:47 Gentoo is the closest you'll find to "working" right now I think Jul 14 00:21:15 It worked Jul 14 00:21:17 LjL, diablo is a fine OS, you are right its out of date now, but theres new apps for it and people still find novel things to do with them Jul 14 00:21:24 folks like the keyboard Jul 14 00:21:34 LjL: you might consider some other devices-- maybe a Ben NanoNote if it fits your needs Jul 14 00:21:35 But the issue is lacking a complete DE Jul 14 00:21:53 scratchbox diablo works Jul 14 00:22:04 even on device building of certain things works Jul 14 00:22:09 LjL: I picked up a netbook (Aspire One) on ebay for $110, but that might be too big Jul 14 00:22:18 meh, just noticed scrolling on S60v5 is much more smoother than Maemo 5's GTK Jul 14 00:22:20 i have a netbook, eeepc 901 :) Jul 14 00:22:41 lcuk: Diablo doesn't support XMPP w/ TLS (usually required these days) Jul 14 00:23:13 luke-jr, it was a solid tool for many people for a long time Jul 14 00:23:19 i still have mine on Jul 14 00:23:26 it runs my remote control Jul 14 00:23:26 * luke-jr has his N810 w/ Gentoo on :) Jul 14 00:23:31 there you go Jul 14 00:23:42 in fact, I just stole its initfs busybox to try to fix my N900 Jul 14 00:23:49 hopefully it works Jul 14 00:23:49 i like sketching on mine - the bigger screen is size i need Jul 14 00:23:50 :/ Jul 14 00:23:55 Ben NanoNote seems slightly too obscure, not on ebay so i have no idea where i'd get it. also, i started with the idea of getting a smartphone, so this would be starting to get a bit big Jul 14 00:24:10 LjL, find someone with one and have a play Jul 14 00:24:23 if you get the bug like most of us did you will enjoy it Jul 14 00:24:42 LjL: Ben NanoNote is a new device for $100 Jul 14 00:24:51 and just today Stskeeps got meego running on it :) Jul 14 00:24:55 and IIRC it's pretty small Jul 14 00:25:13 also, N900 is the first Nokia tablet with cellular connectivity Jul 14 00:25:18 N810 only supports wifi Jul 14 00:25:29 * lcuk sleeps Jul 14 00:25:32 neither are really meant to be smartphones, but N810 certainly cannot fit that category Jul 14 00:26:58 luke-jr: i know that, but you see, initially i was thrilled about Android apparently being fully open source. then it turned out it wasn't really (not on real devices). so i started investigating the nokia tablet. true, the N810 isn't a phone, and it's not even all that open source, but it is if you run Gentoo or stuff on it. i'm actually thinking of getting *both* an Android phone and an N810, since my initial max price target was €200, and you can find those Jul 14 00:27:01 two for €100 each if you're lucky Jul 14 00:28:10 lcuk: i do keep my fingers crossed he will get it working satisfactorily on the N810 ;) Jul 14 00:28:27 LjL: Maemo is less open than Android Jul 14 00:28:38 and you cannot run a free OS on any N* devices yet Jul 14 00:28:46 MeeGo is more open than both :p Jul 14 00:28:52 MohammadAG51: I hope so. :) Jul 14 00:29:02 well, not on the N900 Jul 14 00:29:05 * lcuk loves how this discussion comes up AT ALL in relation to linux Jul 14 00:29:07 :( Jul 14 00:29:22 LjL: http://sharism.cc/shop/ FWIW Jul 14 00:29:26 lol Jul 14 00:29:30 10 packs for $990 XD Jul 14 00:29:32 luke-jr: well, not a totally free one because of the drivers, but my understanding was that if you get the binary blobs installed, then you can get free stuff running - and also, that the binary blobs are only about peripherals such as wifi, and aren't actually required for booting the things, while they would be on most android devices Jul 14 00:29:40 meego on the RX-51 (sounds cooler :P) will have some blobs Jul 14 00:29:48 LjL: wrong. Jul 14 00:30:03 LjL: Wifi is the first thing actually merged to Linux, actually Jul 14 00:30:13 LjL: but the big killer is BME, the battery charger Jul 14 00:30:26 you cannot use a device if it cannot charge its own battery Jul 14 00:30:30 i hate how bme is closed Jul 14 00:30:32 can be fixed w/ a script Jul 14 00:30:47 b-man, bme hates how your closed too Jul 14 00:30:49 luke-jr: i've been told there's an attempt to make a free BME clone, though Jul 14 00:31:02 LjL: I know only of my own efforts, which are fruitless to date Jul 14 00:31:03 jrBME Jul 14 00:31:22 well, someone here was talking about replacing N900-BME... Jul 14 00:31:28 but that's a totally different beast than N810-BME Jul 14 00:31:28 jacekowski has Jul 14 00:31:40 actually, it was DocScrutinizer Jul 14 00:31:46 him too Jul 14 00:32:09 he kicked off the project and made a slightly working script Jul 14 00:32:17 LjL: if you want a *phone* though, OpenMoko's phones are pretty free Jul 14 00:32:27 nokia seems to frown apon any bme replacements Jul 14 00:32:39 b-man, who gives a crap Jul 14 00:32:50 luke-jr: well i don't know, maybe Android is technically more open... however, what happens when i google Android is that i get some shady forums with "mods" which are just zipped binary blobs for some phones. on the other hand, if i google Maemo/Meego, what i seem to find is a community that seems geared on openness. so far, the IRC channels match that sensation too. Jul 14 00:33:02 MohammadAG51: :P Jul 14 00:33:05 i've heard bad things about OpenMoko though :( Jul 14 00:33:17 I wish PDF would die. Jul 14 00:33:35 LjL: Nokia marketting gets the open source crowd more, whereas Android marketting gets the iPhone crowd Jul 14 00:33:44 LjL: I *think* OpenMoko phones work now Jul 14 00:33:49 GAN900: got something better ? Jul 14 00:33:55 IIRC DocScrutinizer would know Jul 14 00:34:13 zash, for basic text? Jul 14 00:34:14 zash, Microsoft XPS of course Jul 14 00:34:15 :P Jul 14 00:34:45 zash, it pisses me off that people want to ship books in PDF so frequently. Jul 14 00:34:45 GAN900: for "printed documents" in digital format .. .ps? Jul 14 00:34:57 Which doesn't work for FBReader. Jul 14 00:35:43 ... Jul 14 00:35:52 not their fault FBReader is crap Jul 14 00:35:54 PDF is the standard Jul 14 00:36:10 Yeah. . . . Jul 14 00:36:18 Unfortunately it isn't reflowable Jul 14 00:36:24 nor is paper Jul 14 00:36:31 which pretty much defines book Jul 14 00:36:33 Which is why it's retarded to put plaintext in PDF Jul 14 00:36:38 Heh Jul 14 00:36:51 This sounds like a very boring conversation :P Jul 14 00:37:07 PDF'sWHOOHOO~!!! Jul 14 00:37:07 /kick alterego Jul 14 00:37:09 Aye Jul 14 00:37:18 openmoko phones never "good enough" in my useo f them Jul 14 00:37:25 Right tool for the job Jul 14 00:37:39 openmoko keeps shifting too much to stabilize Jul 14 00:39:19 I'd get a Freerunner if the price were right :P Jul 14 00:39:24 like $80 or so IMO Jul 14 00:39:48 for the price i can get it at, i think the N810 should at least be a nice ebook reader (and probably a decent GPS navigator, to have fun with by installing navit at least) Jul 14 00:40:21 luke-jr: i just looked up Freerunner and 1973 on ebay, but there simply aren't any being sold. and that price, new... well, i guess it's not happening ;) Jul 14 00:40:48 LjL: I don't need new Jul 14 00:41:01 LjL: forget GPS on N810 Jul 14 00:41:03 it never worked Jul 14 00:41:09 oh? Jul 14 00:41:10 * Jul 14 00:41:24 LjL: GPS is the other big blob on N810, and it was too buggy to be relied on Jul 14 00:41:32 and the map software is crap Jul 14 00:41:33 that's a shame :( Jul 14 00:41:49 well the map software can be replaced... if the blob provides a standard interface... Jul 14 00:41:49 N900 eventually gets a fix and has Ovi Maps Jul 14 00:41:54 yeah Jul 14 00:41:59 blob provides NMEA Jul 14 00:42:06 but the blob doesn't work under any recent kernels Jul 14 00:42:18 good luck writing decent map software tho :) Jul 14 00:42:26 the free software selection is unfortunately terrible Jul 14 00:42:31 luke-jr: by the way, if you're in the US maybe http://cgi.ebay.it/Openmoko-Neo-FreeRunner-GSM-Phone-850-1800-1900-/330449716818? (the shipping price is absurdly high for here, but perhaps it's lower for the US) Jul 14 00:42:50 luke-jr: well, i have some hope in navit, and i'm willing to help partecipate in its development if i can Jul 14 00:43:24 luke-jr: i actually already have a TomTom One, so it's not like GPS is vital for me, but i'd really like a good free navigator Jul 14 00:44:55 LjL: that's about $75 here Jul 14 00:45:00 ugh Jul 14 00:45:32 i guess it's just one of those obnoxious seller who have a very high shipping price just so they can have a lower selling price to show up higher in the list then ;( Jul 14 00:45:49 LjL: no, I mean total :P Jul 14 00:46:07 luke-jr: oh. well, it's $5 less than what you wanted! :D Jul 14 00:47:01 LjL: yeah, I wish I had more time to consider it Jul 14 00:47:20 need to discern whether I can get usable service for it Jul 14 00:47:21 <.< Jul 14 00:48:04 luke-jr: can always resell it to me if you have saner shipping :P (actually i have no idea whether it's even GSM and would work for here, either) Jul 14 00:49:13 it is GSM Jul 14 00:49:20 that's why finding service is near impossible here Jul 14 00:51:52 hrmm Jul 14 00:51:55 well, I got a busybox shell Jul 14 00:51:58 but Fn doesn't work XD Jul 14 00:52:10 so can't type / to mount things Jul 14 00:53:28 goodnight Jul 14 00:55:35 luke-jr: ctrl+i won't work? Jul 14 00:57:16 b-man: NICE FIND Jul 14 00:57:23 but not for digits :( Jul 14 00:57:30 hmm :( Jul 14 00:58:00 and dropbear segfaults.. Jul 14 00:58:13 i think the n900 really needs a proper console keymap Jul 14 01:09:52 thanks for banning my other name Jul 14 01:10:10 anyway, how do you recover wireless keys you once entered Jul 14 01:11:20 you don't. Jul 14 01:12:11 i can do it on linux usuallly Jul 14 01:12:15 how on maemo? Jul 14 01:12:34 meaning, im connected to a wifi network and i dont remember the password Jul 14 01:13:00 sucks to be you Jul 14 01:13:54 well i got it Jul 14 01:14:02 what crawled up your ass? Jul 14 01:14:16 I know it can be done, if you don't know, then just say so Jul 14 01:15:01 :) Jul 14 01:27:12 * peb is gone. Gone since Tue Jul 13 09:26:00 2010 Jul 14 01:27:51 peb: that's asking for a ban Jul 14 01:27:54 fy Jul 14 01:27:55 i Jul 14 01:39:00 yay Jul 14 01:39:02 fixed Maemo Jul 14 01:47:15 how did you fix it? Jul 14 01:50:21 ds3: I managed to cross-compile a kernel+busybox with init script that got me into my Gentoo partition Jul 14 01:50:30 from there I reversed my changes to Maemo Jul 14 01:50:52 now I'm back to my original problem: Jul 14 01:51:00 how to log all boot output Jul 14 01:55:24 dmesg? Jul 14 01:56:01 ham5: dmesg is easy to log Jul 14 01:56:08 the hard part is Maemo's bootscripts Jul 14 01:56:35 Maemo4 I could just do exec >/log 2>&1 Jul 14 01:56:39 that isn't working in 5 Jul 14 01:57:14 easy to log? Jul 14 01:57:25 yeah Jul 14 01:57:27 dmesg > file Jul 14 01:58:25 expunge upstart Jul 14 01:58:34 upstart >:O Jul 14 01:59:37 upstart rules! Jul 14 02:00:00 upstart is lame crap that people only use because Ubuntu made it Jul 14 02:00:01 it's as good for system initialization as pulseaudio is for sound Jul 14 02:00:06 lol Jul 14 02:00:07 good one Jul 14 02:00:13 no, really Jul 14 02:00:15 I like both Jul 14 02:00:18 ouch Jul 14 02:00:21 lol Jul 14 02:00:21 :) Jul 14 02:00:54 i guess it comes down to preference and how you use the system Jul 14 02:01:01 not really Jul 14 02:01:11 upstart is just "not invented here" of OpenRC and such Jul 14 02:01:44 upstart seems a bit lazy lol Jul 14 02:02:47 yea why dev from init Jul 14 02:07:23 hmm Jul 14 02:07:38 maemo's fuser seems to be useless : Jul 14 02:07:47 *:\ Jul 14 02:08:26 b-man: that would explain a lot Jul 14 02:09:08 fuser -m /mnt/mmc1p2 -k doesn't seem to have any effect Jul 14 02:09:22 it worked in maemo4 Jul 14 02:12:39 What about lsof? Jul 14 02:15:10 lsof doesn't have -m or -k Jul 14 02:15:37 -m checks for anything using a mount point Jul 14 02:15:39 -k kills it :D Jul 14 02:15:47 rofl Jul 14 02:16:01 i'd use umount -l :P Jul 14 02:16:03 basically, "LET ME UNMOUNT THIS PATH YOU **#&" Jul 14 02:16:15 lol Jul 14 02:16:33 MohammadAG51: that maakes the problem worse Jul 14 02:16:58 luke-jr, muhahahaha Jul 14 02:21:14 Tip to all - don't play with /etc/sudoers without a backup :P Jul 14 02:21:35 Termana: tip to sane - always use visudo Jul 14 02:22:01 never use visudo Jul 14 02:22:18 on maemo Jul 14 02:22:25 yes well, I didn't think sudo would completely stop working if I got the config accidentally wrong Jul 14 02:22:34 Now I have to reflash :P Jul 14 02:22:38 it may lol Jul 14 02:23:00 or use ssh Jul 14 02:23:18 Termana: why? Jul 14 02:23:19 ssh to root Jul 14 02:23:23 MohammadAG51, didn't install SSH on my n810 :P I will after the reflash though Jul 14 02:23:28 MohammadAG51: visudo works for me Jul 14 02:24:30 luke-jr, http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access#A_note_on_sudo Jul 14 02:25:00 In maemo sudoers is regenerated periodically from config snippets in /etc/sudoers.d/, using visudo can cause the slow death of your system as your edit gets pushed further down /etc/sudoers Jul 14 02:28:30 lame Jul 14 02:30:16 indeed Jul 14 02:31:02 why didn't Nokia modify visudo to edit a sudoers.d file and run update? Jul 14 02:31:11 or better yet, fix their lame scripts to do the Right Thing(TM) Jul 14 02:32:12 cause BAD THINGS HAPPEN(TM) Jul 14 02:33:52 hum Jul 14 02:34:05 looks liek my problems all along were needing to re-run depmod -a on the Maemo side Jul 14 02:36:52 luke-jr: i just woke up to say ha!-ha Jul 14 02:37:11 lol Jul 14 02:37:14 Stskeeps: ? Jul 14 02:37:21 ;) Jul 14 02:37:28 * Stskeeps goes back to sleep Jul 14 02:37:29 * luke-jr doesn't get it Jul 14 02:37:48 * luke-jr calls Stskeeps's wife and wakes her up >:D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 14 02:59:56 2010