**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 15 02:59:57 2010 Jul 15 03:07:19 anyone know the address of the desktop version of Google Reader? Jul 15 03:07:28 MicroB is being forwarded to mobile version Jul 15 03:15:53 pigeon i need to install flashlight Jul 15 03:16:18 asj ssh supports socks Jul 15 03:16:37 server i mean Jul 15 03:16:45 Ljrn900: gotcha Jul 15 03:17:01 nm its http://www.google.com/reader/view/?tab=my Jul 15 03:17:04 flashlight? Jul 15 03:17:19 and easier than tap on n900 kb Jul 15 03:17:33 pigeon i have no power Jul 15 03:17:40 dark Jul 15 03:17:46 ah Jul 15 03:18:20 candles don't cut it Jul 15 03:18:38 and tmobile blocks port 80 Jul 15 03:19:44 why do you have no power? Jul 15 03:24:38 pigeon tornado Jul 15 03:26:46 ah Jul 15 03:39:29 i need help Jul 15 03:40:04 the bad news, my maemo is in a reboot loop Jul 15 03:40:37 the good news, I have a working NITDroid setup which does boot up Jul 15 03:40:59 Do you know in what way you broke it? Jul 15 03:41:13 i can acces a terminal and even read the internal rootfs Jul 15 03:41:52 I was installing a bunch of stuff with fappman in maemo, when it was last working Jul 15 03:43:27 Is there a reason not to just flash the rootfs? Jul 15 03:45:48 yeah, the last time i did a backup was a while ago, and I dont wnat to go through the pain of setting up all applications and settings, and everything all over again Jul 15 03:46:32 is there a logfile or something in rootfs that i can use to find out whats causing it to fail? Jul 15 03:48:31 hi Jul 15 03:48:52 so... whats the flashlight app called? ?? Jul 15 03:48:55 ssl freenode ftw Jul 15 03:48:57 anybody want some credit card numbers? Jul 15 03:49:07 when I look in /var/log the only things I see are pycentral.log, and maemo-optify-boottime.log Jul 15 03:49:45 Ljrn900: flashlight Jul 15 03:50:03 and the interesting thing, is that the modified time on maemo-optify-boottime.log, is after the reboot loop started happening Jul 15 03:50:17 http://maemo.org/packages/view/flashlight-applet/ Jul 15 03:50:42 at what stage in the boot process does maemo-optify-boottime.log get written to? Jul 15 03:52:37 does "SDL 1.3 supports OpenGL ES 1.x. This does not seem to work in the N900 as of now." Jul 15 03:52:48 is that still true.. it works on the iphone Jul 15 03:55:51 speed3vil its not in app mgr Jul 15 03:56:26 you probably have to enable extras Jul 15 03:58:00 there is also a file rb.log in root, which was also modified the last time i tried booting maemo Jul 15 03:58:02 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/flashlight-applet/ Jul 15 03:58:08 jas a direct install link Jul 15 04:00:35 ty Jul 15 04:01:00 35500 w/o power Jul 15 04:01:10 woops 32500 Jul 15 04:01:48 somehow i doubt i am high on the priority list Jul 15 04:01:51 :( Jul 15 04:11:54 what is socks? Jul 15 04:12:03 proxy Jul 15 04:12:22 ok Jul 15 04:12:33 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOCKS Jul 15 04:14:15 so does anyone know what this maemo-optify-boottime is? Jul 15 04:14:39 i dont Jul 15 04:15:44 as fas as what Jul 15 04:15:57 s/fas/far/ Jul 15 04:15:57 ham5 meant: as far as what Jul 15 04:16:09 sure did Jul 15 04:16:46 what does it do, and at which point in the boot process does it get loaded? Jul 15 04:17:05 iBrokeMeFone, moves large files from / directory apart from MyDocs/ and /opt to ?opt and symlink it Jul 15 04:17:33 psycho_oreos: thanks Jul 15 04:18:04 iBrokeMeFone, hence optify Jul 15 04:18:32 my maemo is in a reboot loop, but luckily NITDroid still boots up Jul 15 04:18:45 lol i had it all along! Jul 15 04:19:01 using a terminal in android was able to look at maemos rootfs Jul 15 04:19:41 dont want to just reflash it? Jul 15 04:19:52 and i wanted to check /var/log, for any info on whats causing the reboot loop Jul 15 04:20:07 id rather not reflash yet, if i can avoid it Jul 15 04:20:54 pastebin the dmesg Jul 15 04:21:09 ill have a look :) Jul 15 04:21:31 how do i get a dmesg of maemos last boot attempt? Jul 15 04:22:00 just type dmesg > fileoutput.txt Jul 15 04:22:20 not when he"s in nitdroid :) Jul 15 04:23:07 ? Jul 15 04:23:17 cant copy a file to it? Jul 15 04:23:25 my maemo is in a reboot loop, but luckily NITDroid still boots up Jul 15 04:23:26 right, it will only show nitdroid's info Jul 15 04:23:44 I thought you were sshd into maemo Jul 15 04:23:49 from the nitdroid Jul 15 04:23:57 i wish i could do that Jul 15 04:24:00 I donno what nitdroid is I though tit was a droid os phone or something Jul 15 04:24:22 nitdroid is google's android on nokia internet tablets Jul 15 04:24:32 ic Jul 15 04:25:09 so your dual booting ? Jul 15 04:25:12 so does maemo leave any traces in rootfs that would help trobleshoot a failed boot? Jul 15 04:25:12 iBrokeMeFone Jul 15 04:25:18 yup Jul 15 04:25:34 the only other possible way is to chroot into maemo, create maemo uml and get droid's kernel support for uml and boot it Jul 15 04:25:46 if its rebooting its probly booted ... its finding out to what point... check out the dmesg log file Jul 15 04:27:22 ohno, the terminal in android doesn't have the chroot command Jul 15 04:27:34 problem is that maemo doesn't create dmesg.log file by default.. and whilst he's on nitdroid, using their kernel, there's no way he can extract maemo's dmesg log or /var/log/messages because they're not available Jul 15 04:27:57 its called syslog Jul 15 04:28:05 cat /var/log/syslog Jul 15 04:28:30 ham5: I cant check the maemo's dmesg, cause it doesn't get to a gui before it already starts rebooting itself again Jul 15 04:28:48 the only thing in var/log is this maemo-optify-boottime.log Jul 15 04:29:00 I don't have syslog dump inside /var/log Jul 15 04:29:13 lol fml Jul 15 04:29:35 Nokia-N900:/var/log# ls Jul 15 04:29:35 autodisconnect.log maemo-optify-boottime.log syslog Jul 15 04:29:35 lircd pycentral.log syslog.old Jul 15 04:29:39 i *am*last on the powerfix priority Jul 15 04:29:43 :( Jul 15 04:30:11 Nokia-N900:~# ls /var/log Jul 15 04:30:12 autodisconnect.log maemo-optify-boottime.log pycentral.log Jul 15 04:30:40 u runnin the 1.2 anyway? Jul 15 04:30:41 sounds like some addon or something to be able to allow syslog dumps Jul 15 04:30:57 yeah, but my phone works, trying to sort of assist iBrokeMeFone Jul 15 04:30:58 * swc|666 stares @ psycho_oreos 's redmine tickets Jul 15 04:31:27 * psycho_oreos tells swc|666 his phone will need reflashing soon, broke something big :) Jul 15 04:31:46 psycho_oreos, you broke something? Jul 15 04:32:04 last time I tried to kill parent process of that mailer client it forced reboot, since then my n900 has been acting weird Jul 15 04:32:20 reflsh it Jul 15 04:32:25 reflash* Jul 15 04:32:43 problem is that I'm not too keen on it, have to backup data first lol Jul 15 04:32:53 ah u didnt back up first? Jul 15 04:33:05 flashing i seasy Jul 15 04:33:11 is ez* Jul 15 04:33:11 nah I haven't reflashed it yet but am going to dump the backup stuff Jul 15 04:33:22 it is, just installing things back is the bitch :) Jul 15 04:33:26 flasher should be able to backup too Jul 15 04:33:31 :( Jul 15 04:34:11 * psycho_oreos notes the crappy ovi service giving `grace time' for every deb file downloaded and installed from that service Jul 15 04:34:55 I've wrote a hack script to sort of alleviate that Jul 15 04:35:54 gonna close xchat to save battery Jul 15 04:35:56 i remember reading some place that someone modified apt, to allow it to install ovi stuff without errors Jul 15 04:35:58 night Jul 15 04:36:59 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=736315&postcount=11 Jul 15 04:37:10 swc|666, dunno how you managed to be able to kill that emailer client without having it respawn :) must be a script someone to disable or something.. have to dive deep Jul 15 04:37:39 iBrokeMeFone, ahh nice, ta Jul 15 04:40:47 * iBrokeMeFone is of to off to see the wizard of reflash, as there doesn't seem to be an easy way to resuscitate a maemo install from within nitdroid Jul 15 04:40:58 swc|666, btw I'm on me other connection, can't connect to redmine :) Jul 15 04:41:50 psycho_oreos, modest you mean? Jul 15 04:42:11 swc|666, yeah, everytime I send a kill -9 it respawns under a new pid Jul 15 04:45:06 why are there 2 of most the processes anyway? Jul 15 04:52:14 swc|666, still can't access redmine with different ISP :) Jul 15 04:53:43 psycho_oreos, try again Jul 15 04:53:57 swc|666, kk, ta Jul 15 04:55:02 moo all Jul 15 04:56:02 swc|666, no dice Jul 15 06:21:56 Heya, since Spotify released Linux-Client in .deb format, is it coming for N900 now ? =) Jul 15 06:22:52 if it is built for ARM too.. Jul 15 06:22:52 :P Jul 15 06:24:13 hehe, i was thinking that maybe now there is small option for good spotify client for n900 =) Jul 15 06:26:31 Stskeeps, then again, it doesn't have to be built for ARM either if you use qemu in usermode. Jul 15 06:26:41 * Termana goes and bes a masochist somewhere else :P Jul 15 06:26:59 Lazy, do you know of a program on the N900 similiar to Shazamm (or is it already released for the N900)? Jul 15 06:29:13 Termana: know of anything regarding DVFS on n8x0? Jul 15 06:31:37 Stskeeps, What do you want to know about it? Jul 15 06:31:50 Termana: well, i suspect the dynamic voltage stuff is missing on 2.6.35 Jul 15 06:33:04 ie, no cpu frequency scaling Jul 15 06:34:42 Stskeeps, sounds plausible. Posting Jul 2 for Basic DVFS framework patches for OMAP - http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg33013.html Jul 15 06:35:16 mm, no mention of omap2 Jul 15 06:37:06 * peb_ is gone. Gone since Thu Jul 15 08:27:00 2010 Jul 15 06:38:01 Stskeeps, is it only the original .21 kernel that supports DVFS or did earlier linux-omap kernels support it as well? Jul 15 06:38:26 that's a good question Jul 15 06:39:22 frankly, i don't know, but i suspect our slowness comes from the fact we're running lowest freq ;) Jul 15 06:42:02 Stskeeps, that might also explain why Diablo was always slow with my kernels Jul 15 06:42:39 care to dig into the issue a bit? Jul 15 06:46:38 ~wifi-psm Jul 15 06:46:39 i guess wifi-psm is http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) Jul 15 06:47:26 Stskeeps, I'll have a look tonight (my time - few hours from now). Jul 15 06:47:32 k Jul 15 06:58:27 anyone has experience with N900's A2DP? Jul 15 06:58:45 is there a way I can make the "play button" autostart the media player? Jul 15 07:01:00 Stskeeps, do me a favour? If your at a terminal on your n810 with a .35-rc3 kernel type this: Jul 15 07:01:06 cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies Jul 15 07:01:23 cpufreq/ is empty Jul 15 07:01:36 whoa, N810 with .35? Jul 15 07:01:44 yeah, .35-rc4 Jul 15 07:02:00 what doesn't work? Jul 15 07:02:05 Stskeeps, err... that probably indicts that the theory is correct. I'll look closer tonight :) Jul 15 07:02:36 LiraNuna: what does work: wifi, touchscreen, framebuffer, external mmc, bluetooth breaks for weird reasons.. Jul 15 07:03:02 the steal wife function is also implemented Jul 15 07:03:05 so, no battery management / GPS? Jul 15 07:03:12 didn't say that Jul 15 07:03:13 :P Jul 15 07:03:29 is Nokia supporting N810 or pretty much abandoned it Jul 15 07:03:38 as in, will the GPS work (with/out help from Nokia) ? Jul 15 07:03:51 i have a function to make some of those things happen, so.. Jul 15 07:04:10 or rather, role Jul 15 07:04:10 could you rephrase that? Jul 15 07:04:32 practical case: i can patch those things to make them work and possibly ask to have them hosted legally Jul 15 07:04:47 He means he has the top secret key card to get access to the vault in Nokia that holds the code for them :P Jul 15 07:04:56 sneaky Jul 15 07:05:08 would be nice to revive my N810WE Jul 15 07:05:35 I'm guessing WiMAX won't be supported at all, right Jul 15 07:05:36 we have a project ongoing with meego on n8x0, so Jul 15 07:05:48 i wouldn't say it's impossible, i just don't have the hardware or know anything about it Jul 15 07:06:04 http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=4382&postcount=27 Jul 15 07:06:55 and N900 is getting .35 as well, correct? Jul 15 07:07:07 right Jul 15 07:07:12 not is getting, have Jul 15 07:07:17 :O Jul 15 07:07:26 what close components remained closed? Jul 15 07:07:33 on N900? Jul 15 07:07:36 yeah Jul 15 07:07:43 BME, SGX drivers, bluetooth and wifi firmware Jul 15 07:07:54 phone stack / GPS got opened? Jul 15 07:08:18 GPS we haven't touched yet but the idea is phone stack is opened. there's a large bunch of kernel patches out there, speech path libraries, pulseaudio modules.. Jul 15 07:08:40 that sounds promising Jul 15 07:09:01 (though I'm sure you have different opinions) Jul 15 07:09:10 it does sound promising Jul 15 07:09:18 GPS, chances are it might be a closed plugin for whatever framework exists, but i don't know yet. Jul 15 07:09:30 I thought GPS is a part of the phone stack Jul 15 07:09:38 sortof Jul 15 07:09:51 but when i say phone stack, i mean the stuff that communicates with modem for call purposes Jul 15 07:09:55 or data Jul 15 07:09:58 ah Jul 15 07:10:40 i don't know anything about gps, but i think audio calls have priority atm :P Jul 15 07:11:22 hehe, ofc Jul 15 07:11:35 sorry, I'm just very happy to hear something got opened Jul 15 07:12:24 Stskeeps, keep up the great work Jul 15 07:12:34 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular for instance Jul 15 07:12:37 Stskeeps, you are getting paid by Nokia, right? Jul 15 07:13:11 technically i'm a maemo.org guy, but cash flow starts somewhere at nokia Jul 15 07:14:11 I'm so glad N900 / N810 aren't left in the dark Jul 15 07:14:17 .. at least for now Jul 15 07:14:32 i think if we get cpu frequency scaling working, the handset ux isnt half bad on there Jul 15 07:15:35 BME is battery management? Jul 15 07:15:47 yeah, the elephant in the room Jul 15 07:15:58 I wonder why it's closed Jul 15 07:16:24 * LiraNuna excited Jul 15 07:16:31 on n8x0 cos you can do serious bad shit, on n900, legacy - there's people who are working on open chargng Jul 15 07:16:57 (in community) Jul 15 07:21:36 Stskeeps, is the battery kept from over or undervolting by maemo, or a chip in the battery? Jul 15 07:21:51 jophish: dunno, ask DocScrutinizer Jul 15 07:22:25 hey babes Jul 15 07:22:26 uh? Jul 15 07:22:39 DocScrutinizer, i can ask you if you want Jul 15 07:22:40 DocScrutinizer, is the battery kept from over or undervolting by maemo, or a chip in the battery? Jul 15 07:22:54 what is ttf-khmeros? Jul 15 07:23:10 and libillumination0? Jul 15 07:23:17 jophish: basically by a dedicated hw charger chip called bq24150 Jul 15 07:23:18 i have problems with them Jul 15 07:24:41 jophish: for shutdown on low voltage this chip isn't responsible though. It's the twl4030 multipurpose companion chip of SoC that should cause a shutdown on low voltage Jul 15 07:25:02 ok Jul 15 07:25:04 thanks Jul 15 07:28:31 wow, that chip has a datasheet Jul 15 07:33:19 LiraNuna: which one? Jul 15 07:33:25 jophish: basically by a dedicated hw charger chip called bq24150 Jul 15 07:33:32 LiraNuna: each chip has a datasheet :-P Jul 15 07:33:57 it has software properties somewhat too Jul 15 07:34:08 LiraNuna: sure it has, that's how I managed to make VBUS boostmode and charging happen Jul 15 07:34:19 sw properties? Jul 15 07:35:22 LiraNuna: are you talking about the I2C interface to set the register values? Jul 15 07:35:31 yeah Jul 15 07:35:55 * LiraNuna thought it was "closed source" Jul 15 07:37:08 LiraNuna: yep, the chip can be "programmed" to match the particular situation (fast charge, PC host, boostmode), and it requires tickling a hw watchdog timer so you can't write harmful values there by accident from a runaway process Jul 15 07:38:30 however the chip is basically autonomous and doesn't really need software support to do it's job Jul 15 07:42:31 jophish: battery is keept from undervoltage by bme + gaia + dsme + bq27200 Jul 15 07:42:48 and this chip is on the board Jul 15 07:42:53 not on the battery? Jul 15 07:43:02 yep Jul 15 07:43:10 * elguin coughts loudly Jul 15 07:43:13 android Jul 15 07:43:18 * elguin ends cough Jul 15 07:43:23 meh, off topic Jul 15 07:43:24 :P Jul 15 07:44:07 Android owns your puny littler operating system Jul 15 07:44:12 feeble intel BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Jul 15 07:44:22 I WILL EAT YOU AND SHIT OUT YOUR REMAINS FOR THE BIRDS! Jul 15 07:44:23 is there any way to tell HAM to stop using my damn data for his stupid updates? Jul 15 07:44:25 *i* will tell him when it's appropriate Jul 15 07:44:45 elguin: done now? :P Jul 15 07:44:57 fee fi fo fum Jul 15 07:45:01 well, somebody at work here bought HTC desire Jul 15 07:45:04 i smell the blood of a englishmun Jul 15 07:45:13 and battery in it is soooo much worse than n900 Jul 15 07:45:33 my n900 can make it trough day with everything enabled Jul 15 07:45:37 his htc couldn't Jul 15 07:45:45 i'm serious Jul 15 07:46:00 it eats more than 10% of my daily data Jul 15 07:46:08 cron? Jul 15 07:46:23 it's probably done in cron Jul 15 07:46:25 I typically get two days of usage without charging Jul 15 07:46:35 I charge nightly Jul 15 07:46:41 is there a apt-gtfo command? Jul 15 07:46:52 Me too, but if I forget to charge once, it's not a problem. Jul 15 07:46:52 do apt-get/maemo has something like revdep-rebuild on gentoo? Jul 15 07:46:54 kerio: are you really on limited dataplan? Jul 15 07:46:58 does* have* Jul 15 07:47:01 ZogG: no Jul 15 07:47:08 jacekowski: yup :/ Jul 15 07:47:09 ZogG: it's not designed for it Jul 15 07:47:12 50mb/day Jul 15 07:47:19 kerio: oOooo? Jul 15 07:47:23 How much do you pay for that? Jul 15 07:47:27 how do i check if i have broken libs or missing libs? Jul 15 07:47:28 Must be practically free Jul 15 07:47:34 not really Jul 15 07:47:41 9€ Jul 15 07:47:42 i was on unlimited o2 iphone plan Jul 15 07:47:45 :o Jul 15 07:47:49 now i'm on t-mobile Jul 15 07:47:50 i have 5gb/month =) Jul 15 07:47:52 data plans in italy suck Jul 15 07:47:56 with unlimited data Jul 15 07:47:56 I get unlimited full rate with 9e/month Jul 15 07:48:08 well, t-mobile has a plan for £10 Jul 15 07:48:10 9,90 to be precise Jul 15 07:48:14 with data and calls Jul 15 07:48:18 unlimited data Jul 15 07:48:31 its probably a jackel Jul 15 07:48:34 and my sister is using it to watch youtube 24/7 Jul 15 07:48:38 jacekowski ? Jul 15 07:48:44 gotta be a jackel Jul 15 07:48:47 its a jackel Jul 15 07:48:50 jackel! Jul 15 07:48:55 there's one that's 5€ for 3gb/month, but i'd need to move to prepaid from my awesome contract Jul 15 07:48:56 ZogG: ? Jul 15 07:49:06 how do i check if i have broken libs or missing libs? Jul 15 07:49:18 ZogG: you don't Jul 15 07:49:29 ZogG: apt does it automaticaly Jul 15 07:49:53 ZogG: while package is built all dependencies are stored in .deb file Jul 15 07:49:57 does it Jul 15 07:50:04 how is cell service so cheap there Jul 15 07:50:15 it does Jul 15 07:50:15 ZogG: so unless you delete libs by hand using rm Jul 15 07:50:22 you have to pay 100 bux here to get unlimited Jul 15 07:50:25 jacekowski, sometimes you install new stuff that can break other stuff you had Jul 15 07:50:29 ZogG: it will never need anything like revdep rebuild Jul 15 07:50:33 ZogG: not with apt Jul 15 07:50:42 jacekowski i had some libs i added manually Jul 15 07:50:50 then that's wrong Jul 15 07:50:57 you were supposed to build .deb file Jul 15 07:50:58 i removed them, i want to be sure i haven't removed anything important Jul 15 07:51:02 heh Jul 15 07:51:07 ssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiit mannnnnnnnnnnn Jul 15 07:51:15 elguin: In US? Europe is way ahead of North America when it comes to cellular coverage etc. Jul 15 07:51:16 ZogG: how you added it? Jul 15 07:51:25 yeah well u dont have 4g Jul 15 07:51:26 :) Jul 15 07:51:30 did you install them on /usr/local/ ? Jul 15 07:51:32 BHAAHAHAHAAAGA Jul 15 07:51:37 elguin: I said coverage Jul 15 07:51:41 jacekowski, just copied them - so i had not symlink files errors - i deleted them (not all of them i think) Jul 15 07:51:44 elguin: hahahahahahahahahahahhahaha Jul 15 07:51:58 ZogG: where have you copied them from? Jul 15 07:52:13 jacekowski, it was AT mobility Jul 15 07:52:20 elguin: I was in Chicago and there were spots where I'd get no service with T-Mobile. Jul 15 07:52:21 kerio: see wiki customizing maemo, there's a a passage about configuring sw-updater poll freq Jul 15 07:52:32 because tmobile in the usa Jul 15 07:52:33 someone needed to try somwe app on maemo he wrote and the libs were missing Jul 15 07:52:33 is shit Jul 15 07:52:34 ok? Jul 15 07:52:36 ZogG: well, you are not supposed to do it like that Jul 15 07:52:42 elguin: are you *only* trolling? Jul 15 07:52:44 on tier of coverage its flat out the worse Jul 15 07:52:51 ZogG: you should have build package Jul 15 07:52:55 elguin: Well that says something about the coverage quality in the country in general. Jul 15 07:53:07 ZogG: but if any normal package would require this libs it would install it from normal package Jul 15 07:53:08 jacekowski, i know - i jus didn't care that moment, thoug now i do =))) Jul 15 07:53:12 other services have fine coverage its the price Jul 15 07:53:15 ZogG: did you install them in /usr/local/ ? Jul 15 07:53:23 DocScrutinizer your a big boy i think you should be able to make that determination yourself Jul 15 07:53:24 kerio, /usr/lib Jul 15 07:53:28 In Finland you can use pretty much any operator and you get decent quality coverage _anywhere_ Jul 15 07:53:35 ZogG: you... fail Jul 15 07:53:46 Well it's the same in the usa Jul 15 07:53:49 also what does mean when i get blabla lib is truncated Jul 15 07:53:58 kerio, thank you, i love you too Jul 15 07:53:58 Tmobile isn't just pretty much any operator its like 6th in ranking Jul 15 07:54:01 ZogG: part of it is missing Jul 15 07:54:06 elguin: I'm the big bad boy who'll kick your ass if ever I start to feel annoyed by your spamming Jul 15 07:54:17 ZogG: /usr/ is dpkg's reign Jul 15 07:54:18 i think i fixed it Jul 15 07:54:18 When was I spamming? Jul 15 07:54:27 don't mess with dpkg Jul 15 07:54:34 kerioi know hat's why i had errors, now i don't =)) Jul 15 07:54:35 or dpkg will mess with you Jul 15 07:54:38 or he'll murder you in your sleep Jul 15 07:54:38 fixed it i think Jul 15 07:55:02 now i updated everything and everything is smooth like a dragonfly Jul 15 07:55:13 (i just like the word dragonfly) Jul 15 07:55:14 manually-installed things should go in /usr/local/ Jul 15 07:55:15 just fyi Jul 15 07:56:00 kerio, thanks, next time i just will use /tempo/libs and symlink from there anything i need Jul 15 07:56:01 elguin: around the time when [2010-07-15 09:44:45] elguin: done now? :P Jul 15 07:56:29 either dpkg-buildpackage or install things in /usr/local/ Jul 15 07:56:44 the first one also helps with the deps Jul 15 07:57:04 man I got some nasty farts Jul 15 07:57:33 ~kick elguin Jul 15 07:57:33 * infobot kicks elguin Jul 15 07:57:52 hmmm Jul 15 07:57:58 finally updated ukeyboard Jul 15 07:57:59 so many wires :O Jul 15 07:58:05 and now it's broken =)) Jul 15 07:58:07 LOL Jul 15 08:00:00 I want a girlfriend :/ Jul 15 08:00:03 Hi! Is there a toaster-like plugin for conversations? Jul 15 08:00:57 toaster? Jul 15 08:01:31 fixed that too Jul 15 08:01:34 yay Jul 15 08:01:40 toaster/guifications Jul 15 08:01:54 wtf is toaster Jul 15 08:02:02 its a program Jul 15 08:02:03 for mac Jul 15 08:02:04 from roxio Jul 15 08:02:10 for burning cds Jul 15 08:02:12 ROOM ROOM Jul 15 08:02:36 elguin, you know - when you go out - you see a lot of guys and only several girls, and guys are trying to start with them. but there are more women in the world than man. so my roommate has a theory Jul 15 08:02:37 Hint: pidgin-guifications Jul 15 08:02:49 somewhere there is a pile of hot chicks Jul 15 08:02:59 somewhere - you just need to find it Jul 15 08:03:25 ....Yeah i already know that due Jul 15 08:03:35 Theres a pile of hot chicks in my basement. Jul 15 08:03:38 but where???? Jul 15 08:03:48 oh, give me an adress Jul 15 08:03:49 But there all dead thats why I need more. Jul 15 08:03:55 haha Jul 15 08:03:56 IOW, I'm looking for a way to be notified when a buddy, for example, gose online. Jul 15 08:04:17 ebzzry, do you want your battery be dead? Jul 15 08:04:50 ebzzry, i think there is a plugin for pidgin anyway - find it and optifty it and port it =) Jul 15 08:05:06 No. I only have few buddies in an account that I'll be using. And besides, I have extra batteries. Jul 15 08:05:27 ZogG: IOW, there is none yet? Jul 15 08:05:40 ebzzry, maybe there is one Jul 15 08:05:51 i think there is for desctop pidgin for sure Jul 15 08:05:59 why do kikes control the universe? Jul 15 08:06:10 you just need to make it work with maemo notifications Jul 15 08:06:27 ebzzry: for xchat I think you can define a notification for this. No idea about other IM Jul 15 08:07:01 elguin: please stop it now. This random noise is really disgusting Jul 15 08:07:16 DocScrutinizer: /ignore elguin Jul 15 08:07:33 DocScrutinizer: OK. Jul 15 08:07:49 DocScrutinizer, don't play OP here ;) Jul 15 08:08:09 anyway i have to go.. and than i'll disappear for ~week Jul 15 08:08:10 random who said it random? KIKES CONTROL IS COMPLETELY FOCUSED ON DESTRUCTION OF MANKIND BRO Jul 15 08:08:12 don't miss me Jul 15 08:08:12 kerio: I got spanked for /ignore as I'm supposed not to do that, I *am* OP Jul 15 08:08:24 oh Jul 15 08:08:31 then... /kick elguin Jul 15 08:08:36 even better Jul 15 08:08:46 kerio: that's what'll happen next Jul 15 08:09:13 DocScrutinizer, you are not really op, op is not the one who can kick/ban, but the one who ha responsibility and ha it inside him =) Jul 15 08:09:18 * D-Iivil_Work bangs his head against the wall Jul 15 08:11:46 can I restore angry birds scores after reflashing? Jul 15 08:13:08 yes, if you made a backup Jul 15 08:13:19 you made a backup? Jul 15 08:13:44 shouldn't it get stored somewhere in ~/.* and not even vanish on reflashing rootfs? Jul 15 08:14:04 not if you flash emmc Jul 15 08:14:10 meh Jul 15 08:14:48 the one who's flashing eMMC isn't interested in restoring *anything* :-P Jul 15 08:14:53 even if you do the normal flashing, not the emmc, you lose the scores Jul 15 08:15:19 chadi: ok, so I'd consider that a bug of AB then Jul 15 08:15:25 DocScrutinizer: btw. after playing with meter Jul 15 08:15:36 DocScrutinizer: i think the pin directly above TX is RX Jul 15 08:15:43 DocScrutinizer: and the one next to it is common Jul 15 08:15:44 DocScrutinizer: indeed it is Jul 15 08:15:51 sounds like best practice :-D Jul 15 08:16:49 chadi: try restore, maybe the AB-devels managed to register their highscore lists with backup tool Jul 15 08:16:54 anyway, who cares about the scores, i'm just gonan reflash Jul 15 08:17:06 yes but backup what? settings? Jul 15 08:17:15 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Jul 15 08:17:18 no idea Jul 15 08:17:20 I mean, under what category of backup could the scores be? Jul 15 08:17:48 it's ok, i don't need them anymore :D Jul 15 08:17:52 maybe they use gconf to store them Jul 15 08:18:33 or, even worse, store them to /usr/share/ap* Jul 15 08:20:23 yeah, could be Jul 15 08:21:08 chadi: with a little luck a lsof while AB is started will reveal a few interesting things Jul 15 08:21:36 or strace AB ;-D Jul 15 08:25:49 i want to play it all over again :P Jul 15 08:31:42 DocScrutinizer, no need to strace me Jul 15 08:31:54 :-D Jul 15 08:32:33 oh, we have an angry bird here? Jul 15 08:46:13 MohammadAG51: good find with killall call-ui, such a retarded piece of sw :-P Jul 15 08:47:44 MohammadAG51: it's not only to reread the ini file, it also would overwrite the changes on next invocation of orientation-settings->save Jul 15 09:00:12 battery graph or battery eye? Jul 15 09:00:45 batterygraph Jul 15 09:01:10 okay Jul 15 09:05:15 really? I use battery eye Jul 15 09:12:56 DocScrutinizer, it overwrites the whole file? *facepalm* Jul 15 09:12:58 Teh interwebs are being ripped at the seams! Jul 15 09:13:14 MohammadAG51: yep Jul 15 09:15:06 wow Jul 15 09:26:59 Why is tmo giving server not found -error? Jul 15 09:36:00 D-Iivil_Work: it's been working for me this morning ,.. Jul 15 09:36:12 alterego, yeah, and now it's back again. Jul 15 09:36:19 alterego, was down for few minutes. Jul 15 09:36:25 Usually when I see those errors it's my internet connection. I have to disconnect/reconnect my phone. Jul 15 09:36:29 Oh, right. Jul 15 09:38:19 has anyone tried using xfce in easy-debian? Jul 15 09:38:21 instead of lxde Jul 15 10:01:15 konttori: moinmoin. Found your notice with the details about your idea? :-) Jul 15 10:02:45 http://www.flylogic.net/blog/?p=23 Jul 15 10:02:54 that's one of most sexy things i saw lately Jul 15 10:03:24 ah, the idea was to quickly create a web server that serves tracker data through rest api and with json resultsets (or atom) to allow easy usage of the data in qml (what I want) or in flash/wrt. Jul 15 10:04:10 what makes that very nice is that I can then also access the data directly from my pc, and debug / dev there nicely, while still accessing real data on the device. Jul 15 10:04:25 idea would nicely extend to also contacts, messaging and so forth. Jul 15 10:04:39 DocScrutinizer: how does that sound? Jul 15 10:04:58 still wrapping my head around it Jul 15 10:05:43 I think development time would be about 4-8 hours for the tracker images+videos+music metadata and 2-4 hours for any added data types (like messaging or calendar) Jul 15 10:05:55 I'm a noob to those web-related things Jul 15 10:07:56 http://enivax.net/jk/kswapd.png <- kswapd write access to swap partition, graph created on second day. Each write to swap is logged to a file, this graph plots the 4k sector written to on the y-axis. Jul 15 10:08:07 No wonder people say the device slows down at the 2-4 day mark ;) Jul 15 10:08:58 ShadowJK: OMFG! Jul 15 10:09:53 i never cross 2 days mark Jul 15 10:10:05 ShadowJK: That warrants a nice blog post :) Jul 15 10:10:07 I never use swap :-P Jul 15 10:10:19 X-Fade: you bet it does Jul 15 10:10:25 i would tweak swappiness Jul 15 10:10:36 I don't have a blog Jul 15 10:10:37 jacekowski: won't change things basically Jul 15 10:10:46 This is more about the access pattern to swap, not the amount of swapping Jul 15 10:12:17 default swappiness? Jul 15 10:12:58 default is quite high Jul 15 10:13:02 very* Jul 15 10:13:10 default on the n900 is 100 Jul 15 10:13:10 100 :) Jul 15 10:13:12 ShadowJK: you should add names to the axes, plus a very brief explanation about flash blocksize and the implications Jul 15 10:13:40 DocScrutinizer, another day, now I must run off to work Jul 15 10:13:50 ShadowJK: :-D Jul 15 10:13:58 ShadowJK: brilliant work Jul 15 10:14:18 can someone explain, i don't see what is so bad, it's random access memory, so speed to the blocks doesn't matter, it would be the search algo to find free blocks Jul 15 10:14:55 how do i get a "more" button or be able to create custom folders where the programs are located? Jul 15 10:14:59 That's the thing, it's only random access (if you don't count command overhead) for reads. Jul 15 10:15:05 For writes, it's not random access at all Jul 15 10:15:16 why not? Jul 15 10:15:37 toggles_w: so I'll take over for ShadowJK - writing to a dirty block on eMMC means you have to deal with 256k of blocksize reading modifying, erase/rewrite Jul 15 10:15:38 'flash' right? can't you write anywhere or is there a penalty? Jul 15 10:16:04 anyone? Jul 15 10:16:31 Smeghead: apmefo application, from extras-devel Jul 15 10:16:57 thanks Jul 15 10:18:15 Impressive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcGTNyq9b0s Jul 15 10:19:40 toggles_w, native erase block size is 256k or something. If you write 4k, then go write somewhere else, the emmc does a 256k reas-erase-modify-write cycle. So, for each 4k random write, the emmc ends up writing 256k.Divide 256/4 to figure out how big a slowdown that is Jul 15 10:19:41 toggles_w: basically the MMC controller chip has a buffer of 256k (say), and writing ordered you'll nicely modify that buffer nad write back once when linear writing crosses buffer boundaries. for random writes you have to write back buffer on (or previous to) *every* random write of 1 byte to another block Jul 15 10:20:24 * DocScrutinizer highfives ShadowJK :-D Jul 15 10:20:26 two things Jul 15 10:20:32 writes are not instant Jul 15 10:20:42 even when stuff goes to swap Jul 15 10:20:48 kernel still holds it in memory Jul 15 10:21:09 and buffers are flushed in background Jul 15 10:21:17 Swapping also generates a lot of cpu overhead. Jul 15 10:21:30 That is in part what people notice. Jul 15 10:21:53 well not eactly, but it looks like cpu overhead because stuff stalls ;-) Jul 15 10:22:48 by well, couple things have to be tweaked then Jul 15 10:23:00 (and that cpu monitor widget shows WA as cpu use) Jul 15 10:23:04 i can't do it myself because i never got to more than 3 days uptime Jul 15 10:23:46 dirty_background_ratio - that has to go to some high value Jul 15 10:23:53 dirty_ratio - 99 Jul 15 10:24:03 dirty_writeback_centisecs, dirty_expire_centisecs - some high value Jul 15 10:24:48 and vfs_cache_pressure could be changed to something lower Jul 15 10:24:55 That doesn't apply to swap Jul 15 10:25:01 it does Jul 15 10:25:09 i mean vfs doesn't Jul 15 10:25:23 but it's still I/O related Jul 15 10:25:54 page-cluser applies to swap Jul 15 10:25:59 i'm not sure if swapping doesn't force flush anyways Jul 15 10:27:15 would swapoff/swapon help? Jul 15 10:27:19 yep Jul 15 10:27:25 if you have enough mem for it Jul 15 10:27:33 but hmm, creating temporary swap in file Jul 15 10:27:33 use two swaps Jul 15 10:27:50 or a swapfile, yes Jul 15 10:27:55 http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/07/14/droid-x-actually-self-destructs-if-you-try-to-mod-it/ Jul 15 10:29:34 start a (1) batch script, via cron (err alarmd / alarmed) Jul 15 10:29:53 ooops we got no batch executable Jul 15 10:30:02 :-( Jul 15 10:30:19 shell script Jul 15 10:30:38 jacekowski: man batch Jul 15 10:31:22 batch executes commands when system load levels permit; in other words, when the load average drops below 0.8, or the value specified in the invocation of atrun. Jul 15 10:34:45 like "at midnight start to wait for low system load, then execute the shellscript that actually does the swapoff/on magic" Jul 15 10:35:49 besides, 256M of ram? Jul 15 10:35:53 and you need swap Jul 15 10:36:05 i was running star office with 64M of ram and 100M of swap Jul 15 10:36:16 at_midnight=cron|alarm(e)d; start_to_wait=batch; script=shellscript Jul 15 10:42:26 Open ttd doesn't work on my N900. Any suggestions why? It is updated. Jul 15 10:45:53 swap fragmentation, what a joke Jul 15 10:50:19 any application that does offline geotagging? like some app that listens on 127.0.0.1 and has all the coordinates with their corresponding locations saved? to be used instead of the default supl.nokia.com - because I don't have internet connection all the time Jul 15 10:51:51 hm Jul 15 10:51:59 batterygraph isn't accurate Jul 15 10:52:18 it did go from 45% to 0% in a few minutes Jul 15 10:52:44 uffff Jul 15 10:53:54 backports ftw Jul 15 10:55:41 FIQ: it's as accurate as measurments delivered by phone Jul 15 10:56:09 jacekowski, i though so Jul 15 11:02:52 ShadowJK: did you modify linux for http://enivax.net/jk/kswapd.png or is there some existing logging feature you used? block dump perhaps? /proc/sys/vm/block_dump? Jul 15 11:03:40 Could someone help me with unix shell command? I'd like to remove all but "hildon" directories recursively in my ubuntu machine under certain folder. Jul 15 11:04:09 So, what is new and exciting in maemoland? Anyone important jumping ship? =) Jul 15 11:04:46 Aaah... never mind. Realized I can do it easily from Windows :P Jul 15 11:04:53 Win 7 search ftw! Jul 15 11:05:11 jacekowski: ...as mesurements delivered by hal Jul 15 11:05:39 s/mes/mess Jul 15 11:06:30 what did win7 search allow you to do that ubuntu wouldnt? Jul 15 11:06:51 lindi-: [2010-07-15 12:13:40] DocScrutinizer, another day, now I must run off to work Jul 15 11:07:19 nid0, allowed me to remove all but "hildon" named directories using UI which were located under several other subdirectories. Jul 15 11:07:31 nidO, I know it could have been done with Ubuntu also, but didn't know how to. Jul 15 11:07:41 nidO, so it saved me from googling. Jul 15 11:08:06 win7 searches can find all dirs in a folder with an exception for certain names? Jul 15 11:08:55 nidO, I can go in the "main folder", type * as search item, then sort the result by type & name and select all folders I want to remove simply painting them and hitting del -button. Jul 15 11:09:35 oh. thought you knew a way to apply arbitrary filters to the actual search process Jul 15 11:10:37 nidO, seems like you can actually do that also :D Jul 15 11:10:54 nidO, just put the search like "mysearchword -excludethis" Jul 15 11:11:03 nidO, thanks for the tip :P Jul 15 11:15:12 ShadowJK DocScrutinizer: thanks, makes sense now Jul 15 11:15:32 (swap fragmentation) I suggest to get a second swap partition on eMMC, of similar size, so you can do "swapon swap2; swapoff swap1" in noon, and "swapon swap1; swapoff swap2" at midnight Jul 15 11:16:26 DocScrutinizer, cron Jul 15 11:16:35 sure, what else Jul 15 11:16:50 alarmd maybe, as we got no cron :-P Jul 15 11:17:17 * Termana shakes fist in Nokia's general direction Jul 15 11:17:23 lol Jul 15 11:17:37 Termana: you ever stopped doing that Jul 15 11:17:39 ? Jul 15 11:18:03 DocScrutinizer, shaking my fists in their direction? Hell no, everyday I learn of something they didn't do right. Jul 15 11:18:09 isnt there a cron implementation for maemo kicking around somewhere? Jul 15 11:18:12 This is terrible - they LEFT OUT CRON! :P Jul 15 11:18:55 nidO: cron is a normal linux Jul 15 11:18:56 blah Jul 15 11:19:02 Termana: for a good reason, as cron isn't designed to run on zeroclock Jul 15 11:19:06 nidO: maemo is a pretty-much normal linux Jul 15 11:19:21 nidO: unlike android, normal cron implementations should work Jul 15 11:19:38 Termana: but instead of augmenting/fixing crond, the invented alarmd Jul 15 11:19:51 arachnist they need modifying Jul 15 11:19:59 as DocScrutinizer is currently explaining :) Jul 15 11:20:13 but im reasonably sure I saw something about working cron for the n900 a while back Jul 15 11:20:29 well, there's a difference between working and working in a power-efficent manner Jul 15 11:20:34 there's fcron or sth like that Jul 15 11:20:45 hm Jul 15 11:21:15 but honestly I suggest alarmed, and maybe agment it a bit to deal with normal standard crontabs as well Jul 15 11:22:38 then you could just create a symlink from crond to alarmed :-D Jul 15 11:22:51 DocScrutinizer, I respectful ask you to stop giving me logical reasons and let me continue my fist shaking :P Jul 15 11:22:55 more like cron to alarmed Jul 15 11:23:09 Termana: ok Jul 15 11:25:11 Termana: though [2010-07-15 13:19:38] Termana: but instead of augmenting/fixing crond, the invented alarmd --- that should give you enoughlogical reason to continue nevertheless Jul 15 11:33:29 DocScrutinizer, They aren't afraid of words. You need to really shake your fist at them before they do what you want them to. Jul 15 11:33:53 :P Jul 15 11:34:57 DocScrutinizer, if you shake REALLY hard, you might get BME opened! :P Jul 15 11:36:48 Termana: so be careful then, as opening BME is probably the last thing we'd like to see. Better keep the pandora's box tightly closed :-P Jul 15 11:37:15 btw. with alarm on a phone Jul 15 11:37:23 does it work when phone is switched off? Jul 15 11:37:30 :D Jul 15 11:37:34 like it used to work on old nokia phones? Jul 15 11:37:35 RTC? Jul 15 11:37:50 yes, works. Alarmed even does that ootb Jul 15 11:38:02 jacekowski: yes, and when it goes off it asks if you'd like to switch the phone on Jul 15 11:38:19 fuckin' alarms Jul 15 11:38:21 how do they work Jul 15 11:38:27 how to best add an /etc/osso-backup/applications file to a debian package? Jul 15 11:38:45 kerio: is that a serious question? Jul 15 11:39:02 DocScrutinizer: nah Jul 15 11:39:14 wait, no Jul 15 11:39:18 it's actually a serious question Jul 15 11:39:26 where is the time to wake up stored? Jul 15 11:39:30 CAL Jul 15 11:39:39 ok, so you deserve serious answer :-) Jul 15 11:39:55 the time is stored in RTC function block in GAIA Jul 15 11:40:24 nah, everything evil is stored in cal Jul 15 11:40:26 RTC funblock then causes a power_up event when alarm time expires Jul 15 11:40:41 and alarms are evil because they wake you up Jul 15 11:40:58 which is raher simple as GAIA also is the master PMU of system Jul 15 11:41:23 how do multiple alarms work? Jul 15 11:41:34 only the next one is stored and it's updated every time the phone wakes? Jul 15 11:41:35 RTC does have only one alarm Jul 15 11:41:41 yep Jul 15 11:42:28 I think alarmd is responsible to manage that Jul 15 11:42:54 is he also responsible from chewing off 8mb of data each day from my mobile connection? Jul 15 11:42:59 btw. what is a diferemce between alarmd and cron? Jul 15 11:43:11 in the implementation? probably Jul 15 11:43:13 keep a list of scheduled alarms and set RTC to closest one of that list Jul 15 11:43:32 but i guess you could exchange them with no particular difficulty Jul 15 11:44:04 jacekowski: it's two unrelated (mostly) pieces of sw Jul 15 11:44:24 jacekowski: alarmd knows about RTC, while cron doesn't Jul 15 11:45:22 X-Fade, ping Jul 15 11:46:09 they serve the same purpose though Jul 15 11:46:19 running stuff at defined time intervals Jul 15 11:46:34 yep Jul 15 11:46:52 DocScrutinizer, so alarmd can do stuff when the device is off? Jul 15 11:46:59 yep Jul 15 11:47:00 gives me rm -rf'y ideas Jul 15 11:47:14 :P Jul 15 11:47:41 wait, so if i set a recurring event at 00.05, the phone would turn on if it was turned off? Jul 15 11:47:57 yep Jul 15 11:48:05 cool Jul 15 11:48:13 DocScrutinizer, while true; do echo yep; done Jul 15 11:48:15 would it again turn off once the task is complete? Jul 15 11:48:22 yep Jul 15 11:48:29 you shouldn't keep it off anyway Jul 15 11:48:32 it's a UNIX system! Jul 15 11:48:33 does it really boot up all the way as usual? Jul 15 11:48:35 flux: no Jul 15 11:48:40 * MohammadAG CTRL^C's DocScrutinizer Jul 15 11:48:52 I guess it cannot wake up the phone, atleast, because it doesn't know the pin code Jul 15 11:48:54 uptime! :( Jul 15 11:49:18 flux: that's correct Jul 15 11:49:19 i wanna see it wake up... without battery! Jul 15 11:49:21 bwahahaha Jul 15 11:49:25 kerio, think it as preconfigured LOM Jul 15 11:49:50 lom? Jul 15 11:49:51 flux: though that depends on your PIN settings in err settings Jul 15 11:50:09 kerio, lights-out management Jul 15 11:50:15 i see Jul 15 11:50:55 although, to be fair, even PCs know how to wake up at a certain preconfigured time Jul 15 11:51:37 flux: alarmd has no notion about what "the task" might be, so powering down is user's duty anyway Jul 15 11:52:07 or "the taks"s duty, to be precise Jul 15 11:54:06 any such task should chack for bootup reason and time since boot, to make sure the device wasn't on for other reasons when the alarm expired. So the task only will power down the device if it's actually been powered up previously by the task's associated RTC alarm Jul 15 11:54:24 lol http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/15/breaking-chicken-came-before-the-egg/ Jul 15 11:55:13 if the task takes quite some time to complete, then it also had to check for user interaction indicating user might be busy with other things and doesn't expect a sudden power_down Jul 15 11:55:29 MohammadAG, so now it's solved! Jul 15 11:55:59 or rise a requester giving user a way to abort the power_down sequence Jul 15 11:56:01 D-Iivil_Work, sadly Jul 15 11:56:14 MohammadAG, no reason to live anymore? Jul 15 11:56:24 goodbye, cruel world Jul 15 11:56:33 * MohammadAG51 commits suicide Jul 15 11:57:13 This must be a record... photoshop has now 559 images open at the same time and it hasn't crashed yet. Jul 15 11:57:32 on n900? Jul 15 11:57:33 :o Jul 15 11:57:46 i never noticed an iphone 3GS uses an omap that is speced just like the n900 Jul 15 11:57:46 kerio, Photoshop on N900? I WISH! Jul 15 11:58:04 wonder if someone managed to get the iphone os onto the n900 :) Jul 15 11:58:25 alo all Jul 15 11:59:10 gimp ftw Jul 15 12:00:18 MohammadAG, if only Gimp could use all the plugins I have on Photoshop... Jul 15 12:01:08 D-Iivil_Work, if only photoshop wasn't non-free Jul 15 12:01:18 MohammadAG, :P Jul 15 12:01:56 they could've done it like xchat Jul 15 12:02:04 MohammadAG, how is that done? Jul 15 12:02:11 paid on windows, free on linux Jul 15 12:02:31 MohammadAG, they first should have a linux port of it... Jul 15 12:02:50 MohammadAG, and it's pretty huge application so porting would not be a walk in the park :P Jul 15 12:03:05 But they do have a mac port. Hmm. Jul 15 12:03:07 D-Iivil_Work: pong Jul 15 12:04:21 X-Fade, remember when I wondered why ain't my package changes are shown @ maemo.org/packages -page? Jul 15 12:04:32 D-Iivil_Work: Yes. Jul 15 12:05:01 X-Fade, I noticed if I leave out the icon-field from control -file it's showing up. Jul 15 12:05:21 X-Fade, just wanted to let you know if you want to look what's wrong with the importer at some point. Jul 15 12:05:46 D-Iivil_Work: Which package and versions can I compare? Jul 15 12:06:47 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50714&page=2 Jul 15 12:06:49 lol Jul 15 12:06:57 You can compare these: http://maemo.org/packages/view/black-plastic-theme/ & http://maemo.org/packages/view/matrix-pr12/ Jul 15 12:07:03 talk.maemo.org is entertaining Jul 15 12:07:06 it's like comedy hour :) Jul 15 12:07:21 too bad the arguing kind of lost the relevant question.. can iphone os be run on an n900 Jul 15 12:07:54 i think 1 post explained "no" with no verification as to why and the rest was two people bitching about the relationship between os x and the iphone os Jul 15 12:07:57 D-Iivil_Work: You mean the changelog problem, right? Jul 15 12:08:04 X-Fade, yes. Jul 15 12:08:27 are you guy able to upload pics taken with the 5MP cam settings to facebook? Jul 15 12:08:46 D-Iivil_Work: Ok, well there is something going on with the icons at least. So I'll see if that has anything remotely to do with changelog parsing somehow. Jul 15 12:09:11 X-Fade, no problem. Just wanted to give a hint about what might_be_causing the importer to fail. Jul 15 12:09:15 Macer: simple humor for simple minds? Jul 15 12:09:20 I get a transfer error. Can you guys try? Jul 15 12:09:20 chadi: what's facebook?? ;-P Jul 15 12:09:24 asj_: yes :) Jul 15 12:09:27 it's like watching rambo Jul 15 12:09:36 you can talk all through rambo and still understand what is going on Jul 15 12:09:48 man with big guns mad Jul 15 12:09:57 * asj_ goes to bed Jul 15 12:10:03 DocScrutinizer: ask google ;-P Jul 15 12:10:20 no really now, can anybody confirm? Jul 15 12:10:56 * DocScrutinizer vaguely remembers an app called facebrick Jul 15 12:11:40 Macer: it can probably be adapted Jul 15 12:11:43 but *why* Jul 15 12:11:43 chadi, even with the newest version? Jul 15 12:11:55 yes, MohammadAG Jul 15 12:11:55 the one that was recently released Jul 15 12:12:13 updated it yesterday Jul 15 12:12:20 same problem Jul 15 12:12:30 kerio: i was just curious Jul 15 12:12:35 DocScrutinizer: i've spoken to guy with x-ray and i'm probably going to get phone xrayed sometime next week Jul 15 12:12:38 but reading that thread. i am no long curious :) Jul 15 12:12:41 i don't see why not Jul 15 12:12:50 no longer Jul 15 12:12:50 you'd get a really small screen though Jul 15 12:13:04 or a screen that's too big Jul 15 12:13:07 jacekowski: what do you hope to do with that? Jul 15 12:13:18 kerio: the hardware was similar so i was just wondering if someone had tried it Jul 15 12:13:40 MohammadAG: there's already a bug report about this - https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6274#c24 Jul 15 12:13:41 Bug 6274: Sharing pictures on Facebook gives "Transfer error" Jul 15 12:15:35 I thought I could ask here before posting on talk.maemo.org Jul 15 12:18:15 DocScrutinizer, w00t_ is dealing with facebrick Jul 15 12:19:01 lcuk: maybe. I not even got slightest idea what that app is doing. Couldn't care less about face* Jul 15 12:19:17 except facepalm maybe Jul 15 12:20:06 I'm not a facebook addict, but this bug annoys me Jul 15 12:22:37 DocScrutinizer: get rough idea about pcb layout Jul 15 12:23:21 jacekowski: won't help Jul 15 12:23:38 it's a multilayer Jul 15 12:24:57 and dealing with multilayer is even hard in layout-CAD programs, when different layers are colored and semi transparent. Jul 15 12:25:33 jacekowski: you had a look at those x-ray shots the mad dentist published on tmo? Jul 15 12:26:08 well, with different angles i should get idea of where pads are connected Jul 15 12:26:19 nope Jul 15 12:26:39 distance between layers is too microscopic Jul 15 12:27:43 and after figuring out the third via you are ready for a long holiday in a soft cell Jul 15 12:28:24 facepalm haha Jul 15 12:28:32 has anyone here tried NITDroid on their N900? Jul 15 12:28:50 well, maybe for tracing down one *highly* important trace from one pin to another it _might_ work Jul 15 12:28:55 PhonicUK: i haven't tried it but from what i've heard it isn't really worth it now Jul 15 12:29:00 they are running into things not working issues Jul 15 12:29:08 like hw accel video etc :) Jul 15 12:29:18 i know, but i figured if im going to dual boot then it can't hurt to have a look Jul 15 12:29:50 PhonicUK: well if you like it you should reverse engineer the video chipset and create a driver and leak it to the world ;) Jul 15 12:30:00 :P Jul 15 12:30:10 whats stopping them using the driver in the nokia image? Jul 15 12:30:15 aside from legal issues Jul 15 12:31:23 jacekowski: honestly I think the only things you can reasonably check with x-ray shots are solder shorts and alignment issues on bga chips, and chip burnouts though even those need much expertise from chip manuf to actually tell what's on Jul 15 12:31:49 PhonicUK: not sure really. last i checked they were on their way to the supreme court to rule what the word "open" meant Jul 15 12:33:00 jacekowski: I've seen several x-rays of OM Freerunner. I still feel the headache Jul 15 12:33:13 PhonicUK: technically nothing, but rootfs'es are non-redistributable then Jul 15 12:33:48 maybe it could copy the nokia version over from the flash at install time? Jul 15 12:34:01 PhonicUK: It's also running a different kernel; and doesn't Android need accelerated framebuffer rather than X? Jul 15 12:34:16 Had to reflash my n810 because of my /etc/sudoers idiocy. Quick someone say a device name Jul 15 12:34:17 Jaffa, it uses the same kernel now. Jul 15 12:34:24 Termana: lain Jul 15 12:34:38 PhonicUK: I'm not sure "legal issues" are bothering the NITDroid devs now: they're looking for getting copies of the drivers from Milestone owners Jul 15 12:34:41 Stskeeps, err ok. Its in :P Jul 15 12:34:46 PhonicUK: I thought it reflashed on boot if necessary. Jul 15 12:35:07 PhonicUK: So no user reflashing required, but it still uses a different kernel. Jul 15 12:35:13 ah ok Jul 15 12:35:19 the wiki is a little ambiguous Jul 15 12:38:20 Stskeeps: awesome show Jul 15 12:38:31 wha? Jul 15 12:38:31 :P Jul 15 12:38:35 ah, yes Jul 15 12:38:44 serial experiment lain? Jul 15 12:38:53 yes Jul 15 12:39:03 i thought it was good ;) Jul 15 12:41:49 * timeless_mbp hasn't seen that in about a decade Jul 15 12:42:08 is there any way for root application to make dbus queries to the user session? Jul 15 12:42:42 su? :P Jul 15 12:43:53 so, using another process to do it? Jul 15 12:43:58 or, what do you mean? Jul 15 12:44:30 konttori: su user -c 'echo "Hello world!"' Jul 15 12:44:32 actually su is probably the only way Jul 15 12:45:02 ok, thanks guys. blah. sucks. Jul 15 12:45:14 though wait, it's called session-bus, not user-bus Jul 15 12:45:44 so you'd need to find out what's d-bus' notion of a session Jul 15 12:46:17 konttori, whats in root that you are needing to talk with userspace? Jul 15 12:46:22 probably linked to user anyway Jul 15 12:47:38 actually the orthodox way would be a user process connecting to system bus, so root can talk to all those processes that are actually prepared to listen to it Jul 15 12:49:07 what you trying to do is kinda spoofing, as root isn't supposed to talk on session bus, `from outside' Jul 15 12:49:39 DocScrutinizer: do you have links for these dentists photos? Jul 15 12:50:33 jacekowski: would it be harsh to tell you one of my 178 posts to tmo (exactly one) was to that thread, and I don't have any better link Jul 15 12:51:31 hmmm Jul 15 12:53:10 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47869 Jul 15 12:54:22 well, nobody made photos of naked pcb Jul 15 12:54:29 but it looks like you can't see tracks anyways Jul 15 12:54:39 that's the point Jul 15 12:54:48 but that might be matter of energy Jul 15 12:54:54 you can sometimes, but you can't tell them apart Jul 15 12:55:09 multilayer Jul 15 12:55:09 http://www.designer2k2.at/images/bga.jpg Jul 15 12:55:11 sexy Jul 15 12:55:17 you can see bonding wires Jul 15 12:57:08 jacekowski: believe me you'll gain nothing wrt schematics/circuit with an x-ray Jul 15 13:00:12 hmm, connecting RF transmitter to specific track Jul 15 13:00:15 lower power one Jul 15 13:00:24 but that's not precise enogh Jul 15 13:00:26 enough* Jul 15 13:07:37 is there a way to change the wallpaper based on the open/close status of the screen? Jul 15 13:08:00 those xray wallpapers are *awesome* Jul 15 13:11:48 http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/14/modu-worlds-lightest-cellphone-lands-in-uk/ Jul 15 13:11:50 ... Jul 15 13:12:20 Hmm - that would be neat. Jul 15 13:12:42 xray of the device closed as a background when closed, open with it open Jul 15 13:12:48 or... is there a way to set a fixed wallpaper? Jul 15 13:12:57 so i can scroll between the desktops without scrolling the wallpaper Jul 15 13:13:06 SpeedEvil, wasn't there someone who xray'd the device Jul 15 13:13:09 even better: is there a way to do both? Jul 15 13:13:14 MohammadAG: yup Jul 15 13:13:20 there are two wallpaper-ready images Jul 15 13:13:26 one for the open device, one for the closed device Jul 15 13:13:42 ah Jul 15 13:13:53 MohammadAG: see my last posted URL Jul 15 13:13:55 found them http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47869 Jul 15 13:14:29 oh lol Jul 15 13:14:29 nvm Jul 15 13:19:29 what happened to the dev channel? Jul 15 13:19:42 oh nvm Jul 15 13:19:44 typ Jul 15 13:19:46 typo Jul 15 13:24:49 typical type of typo typing fast Jul 15 13:26:08 is there a way to make the n900 execute a command on screen open/close Jul 15 13:26:17 sure Jul 15 13:26:19 yes Jul 15 13:26:30 an *easy* way? Jul 15 13:26:31 but what's screen open? Jul 15 13:26:57 do you mean kbd slide open? Jul 15 13:26:59 DocScrutinizer: keyboard accessible/covered Jul 15 13:27:00 yeah Jul 15 13:27:16 dbus scripting app Jul 15 13:27:28 will do what you ask for Jul 15 13:27:32 keyboard slides show in dmesg, GPIO Jul 15 13:28:26 I had a playsound installed for both events, was funny for a while Jul 15 13:28:47 like enterprise communicator Jul 15 13:28:51 is there any piece of software that does that automaticaly Jul 15 13:28:57 i mean, execute command on dbus event Jul 15 13:29:00 I'd love to have 2 different sexual "uh" sounds for opening and closing Jul 15 13:29:03 dbus scripting app Jul 15 13:29:10 will do what you ask for Jul 15 13:29:11 name? Jul 15 13:29:11 so you'd open and close it and it would go "Uuh aah uuh aah uuh ahh..." Jul 15 13:29:16 dbus scripting app Jul 15 13:29:34 apt-get install dbus scripting app Jul 15 13:29:47 bah, use HAM search, noob :-P Jul 15 13:29:58 ham search doesn't work Jul 15 13:30:02 well, not for me Jul 15 13:30:11 * DocScrutinizer sighs Jul 15 13:30:24 it's never coming up with any results Jul 15 13:30:39 jacekowski: use fapman Jul 15 13:30:40 yessir, a minute sir, please sir Jul 15 13:30:56 if only for the name Jul 15 13:31:04 fap fap fap Jul 15 13:31:13 let me try ham search Jul 15 13:31:18 maybe it will work Jul 15 13:31:33 DocScrutinizer, thats an awesome idea for pplaying sounds Jul 15 13:31:59 dbus-script-settings Jul 15 13:32:14 DocScrutinizer, do you still have that script? Jul 15 13:32:28 dbus-scripts-settings Jul 15 13:32:32 dbus-scripts Jul 15 13:32:39 lol ok Jul 15 13:32:47 dotblank: nah, was dirt simple oneliner Jul 15 13:32:59 really.. in python? or bash? Jul 15 13:33:06 bash Jul 15 13:33:31 you link in to /etc/dbus-scripts iirc Jul 15 13:33:57 LOL @ PhonicUK Jul 15 13:35:17 xD Jul 15 13:35:33 dbus-scripts-settings: add_system_event -> kbd_slide; cmd: playsound mywav.wav Jul 15 13:35:39 dotblank: ^^^ Jul 15 13:35:55 is it just me or you can't answer "y" to apt-get? Jul 15 13:36:04 it's just you Jul 15 13:36:14 use apt-get -y --force-yes if it's stubborn Jul 15 13:36:21 non-english keyboard? Jul 15 13:36:29 yes | cpan, the only way to play. Jul 15 13:36:42 MohammadAG: yeah Jul 15 13:36:49 but y is still y Jul 15 13:36:50 :/ Jul 15 13:36:55 DocScrutinizer, where is playsound relative to? Jul 15 13:36:58 yeah, i'm using -y for now Jul 15 13:37:00 but it's lame Jul 15 13:37:04 or does it copy / not matter Jul 15 13:37:19 err what? Jul 15 13:37:30 like the location of mywav.wav Jul 15 13:37:45 is it in ~/ Jul 15 13:37:46 it does matter Jul 15 13:38:11 run a pwd > /tmp/lolpath Jul 15 13:38:13 playsound is a cmd, the path_to_file.wav has to be valid for the current program context Jul 15 13:38:29 and look at lolpath to see where the command is ran Jul 15 13:38:34 well I just be absoulte then Jul 15 13:38:36 doesn't playsound ignore volume levels? Jul 15 13:38:43 an absolute FQN is always valid Jul 15 13:38:52 MohammadAG: yes it does Jul 15 13:39:15 isn't that painful with headsets on? Jul 15 13:42:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziQvBBZnlZo Jul 15 13:42:21 lol Jul 15 13:42:24 play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-charging_started.wav Jul 15 13:45:07 ~/.osso $ cat /etc/dbus-scripts.d/dbus-scripts-settings Jul 15 13:45:08 # This file was generated by dbus-scripts-settings Jul 15 13:45:10 # If you edit it by hand you might confuse the program, Jul 15 13:45:11 # and you might lose your changes next time the program runs. Jul 15 13:45:13 #:soundonslide Jul 15 13:45:14 play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-charging_started.wav * * org.freedesktop.Hal.Device Condition ButtonPressed cover Jul 15 13:46:22 hi all! I finally got my N900 and boy is it awesome :D Jul 15 13:46:32 TMM: it is Jul 15 13:46:47 but don't worry Jul 15 13:46:57 does anyone happen to know how I can set a default browser? And ideally entirely get rid of the build in one? Jul 15 13:47:03 the excitement will drop soon, if you hang around here a little Jul 15 13:47:03 :) Jul 15 13:47:14 the builtin one is awesome! Jul 15 13:47:22 you can choose the default browser by installing... hmm... some package Jul 15 13:47:25 no, fennec is awesome, the build in one is 'adequate' Jul 15 13:47:31 love the builtin one.. but the second best imo is opera mobile Jul 15 13:47:31 search for "browser" in the package manager Jul 15 13:47:35 fennec is slow imho Jul 15 13:47:43 you'll find a switcher Jul 15 13:48:20 that's what I thought, but then I found out that the built in browser starts 'browserd' on the first run, and it continuously eats loads of CPU power making fennec slow. After finally getting rid of browserd, fennec is awesome Jul 15 13:48:32 so now I really want browserd gone permanently :P Jul 15 13:49:09 won't fly Jul 15 13:49:22 * timeless_mbp grumbles Jul 15 13:49:24 browserd is used for quite a number of tasks Jul 15 13:49:24 it's raining Jul 15 13:49:41 did anyone fix the switcher to stop breaking the browser? :) Jul 15 13:49:49 timeless_mbp: hey! :-) somebody here wants get rid of your browser :-P Jul 15 13:50:13 they're welcome to cut off their torso Jul 15 13:50:25 docscrutinizer: it appears that if I haven't used browserd for the browser, it won't start eating ungodly amounts of CPU Jul 15 13:50:26 but i'm not interested in seeing the guts or hearing about the pain Jul 15 13:50:26 lol Jul 15 13:50:27 haha Jul 15 13:50:56 timeless_mbp: well, microb *has* some wtf moments Jul 15 13:51:03 i still prefer it to fennec though <3 Jul 15 13:51:06 every browser does Jul 15 13:51:12 but for maemo5, the browser is used by conversations Jul 15 13:51:17 among other things Jul 15 13:51:22 so if you really don't want messaging working Jul 15 13:51:31 then yeah, you can go off and kill browserd Jul 15 13:51:36 I really like the fennec interface, and that I can run adblock and noscript Jul 15 13:51:39 but then… why'd you buy an n900? Jul 15 13:51:48 you can run them in microB too Jul 15 13:51:49 :) Jul 15 13:51:50 TMM: iirc adblock works w/ microb Jul 15 13:51:53 friggin dbis-scripts doesn't work :-/ Jul 15 13:51:58 not sure about noscript, although i'd hope so Jul 15 13:51:58 yeah, but noscript doesn't Jul 15 13:52:04 someone should port it :( Jul 15 13:52:14 * timeless_mbp actually sent an n800 to the noscript dev Jul 15 13:52:18 seem to remember I had to configure it manually last time I did that (last year or whatever) Jul 15 13:52:21 I can't find that browser switch thing in app manager when searching for 'browser' Jul 15 13:52:26 but he was busy doing something like getting married/ Jul 15 13:52:44 the noscript developer is an asshole Jul 15 13:53:45 I want a script which opens flvs and mp4s in the mediaplayer Jul 15 13:53:47 cba with flash Jul 15 13:54:14 hmm, plugin, not script Jul 15 13:54:18 I like the built in messenger and email client though. I setup an xmpp gateway on my server that connects to all my other networks, and now I can use all my im accounts from my phone and computer at the same time. It's really quite awesome Jul 15 13:55:34 hi Jul 15 13:55:43 where is stored the bluetooth id (mac address) in N900? Jul 15 13:55:49 DocScrutinizer: there's no way to add an event on dbus-scripts-settings just for slide open or slide close Jul 15 13:55:51 I really like how it all integrates with the address book Jul 15 13:56:53 drizztbsd: it's in the hardware! Jul 15 13:56:58 kerio: it is, when you look at the config file I pastespammed above there are 2 * which are wildcards for additional parameters of the dbus msg. you *could* change that to open or close iirc Jul 15 13:57:12 no, it's in an eeprom or nvram Jul 15 13:57:18 but I don't know where :) Jul 15 13:57:23 well, on dbus-scripts-settings there's evidentally not Jul 15 13:57:45 kerio: does it otherwise work for you? Jul 15 13:57:46 drizztbsd: so you are not looking for hciconfig, right? Jul 15 13:57:52 hi guys, do you know if any workaround exist for this Qt (Maemo) bug: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-12194 ? Jul 15 13:57:55 DocScrutinizer: don't know Jul 15 13:58:01 i'm also looking for the command to change the wallpaper Jul 15 13:58:18 no, since the bluetooth module is already loaded with that mac address Jul 15 13:58:30 and if there's a way to check the keyboard slide status i can do it all with a single update_wallpaper_based_on_kbd_slide.sh Jul 15 13:59:17 Andy80: don't use a QPushButton? :) Jul 15 13:59:36 what you have there isn't a Button Jul 15 13:59:59 timeless_mbp: what do I have to use instead of QPushButton? Jul 15 14:00:02 ah, I found something 'browser switchboard' Jul 15 14:00:12 what are you using for the things on the right? Jul 15 14:00:21 ehm... Jul 15 14:00:29 (unrelated question) Jul 15 14:00:30 dbus-scripts-settings is incredibly retarded Jul 15 14:00:41 probably in this case,neither a screenshot was enough :D Jul 15 14:00:44 I'd just use some sort of Panel or Box thing Jul 15 14:00:45 and it works! yay Jul 15 14:01:12 kerio: there's a switch state in sysfs to read state of slider from Jul 15 14:01:13 whatever Qt's equivalent of a "thing i can paint on and get events for" Jul 15 14:01:19 timeless_mbp: very related one.... it's obvious that I'm using the same.... it's just the same application compiled for Desktop target and for Maemo target Jul 15 14:01:50 Andy80: sorry Jul 15 14:01:56 timeless_mbp: uhm.... Jul 15 14:01:57 maybe my definition of right was ambiguous Jul 15 14:02:03 ok, sorry :) Jul 15 14:02:07 i meant what were you using for the heart and other buttons Jul 15 14:02:14 s/retarded/braindead and unusable crap/ Jul 15 14:02:22 not for the picture, for the second set of buttons w/in the picture :) Jul 15 14:02:41 timeless_mbp: they're all QPushButton Jul 15 14:02:52 ok Jul 15 14:02:56 but anyway Jul 15 14:03:06 maemo style clearly doesn't want *large* buttons Jul 15 14:03:09 merely fingerable buttons Jul 15 14:03:26 that's what she said? Jul 15 14:03:38 more or less Jul 15 14:03:45 timeless_mbp: what's wrong with large buttons? Jul 15 14:03:56 they clearly violate style Jul 15 14:03:57 DocScrutinizer: hmm... do you know where it is, or some documentation about it? Jul 15 14:04:10 … are inconsistent with platform Look and Feel/ user expectations Jul 15 14:04:25 timeless_mbp: well... good excuse to don't fix a bug like this eh :) Jul 15 14:04:36 kerio: where's what? Jul 15 14:04:50 the sysfs entry for the keyboard slide status Jul 15 14:04:58 timeless_mbp: I'm just using exactly the same layout of Vagalume :\ Jul 15 14:05:04 duh Jul 15 14:05:52 kerio: /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch maybe Jul 15 14:05:58 Andy80: well, if you ignore those two buttons, which look awful Jul 15 14:06:05 http://www.linuxine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/vagalume-lastfm.jpg Jul 15 14:06:06 nah, not mmc Jul 15 14:06:09 the app would fit nicely in Maemo Jul 15 14:06:17 but really, those two buttons look bad Jul 15 14:06:23 even normally, ignoring maemo Jul 15 14:06:38 it's hard for me to explain why Jul 15 14:06:46 kerio: find /sys -name *slide* Jul 15 14:07:48 timeless_mbp: really... those two "awful" buttons, are easier to push (at least for me) than the other 6 smaller! I don't care if Nokia says it's not stylish, it's just less usable, that's all. Jul 15 14:08:03 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/slide/state Jul 15 14:08:05 open Jul 15 14:08:14 DocScrutinizer: thanks, found it Jul 15 14:08:16 :D Jul 15 14:08:38 there we go again, hiding things with logical names in the appropriate places Jul 15 14:08:49 this is absolutely unacceptable! Jul 15 14:10:30 ok, last thing Jul 15 14:10:36 how do i set the wallpaper from the cli Jul 15 14:10:44 it's the last part of my awesome script Jul 15 14:11:28 Andy80: if users can't use the button size that maemo uses Jul 15 14:11:29 ~trout timeless_mbp Jul 15 14:11:30 * infobot slaps timeless_mbp around a bit with a large trout! Jul 15 14:11:35 they really need to return their n900s Jul 15 14:11:41 because they'd be amazingly unhappy w/ them Jul 15 14:13:57 timeless_mbp: again... this is the worst excuse I've ever heard, belive me and I'm a bit disappointed with this position. I should be able to use whatever layout I want. If I feel better with larger buttons, I wanna use larger buttons. If I would love restriction I would buy an iPhone! Jul 15 14:14:12 dbus-monitor shows nothing Jul 15 14:14:13 :( Jul 15 14:14:36 Andy80: i'm not an official representative Jul 15 14:14:51 and if you think # is official, i've got a newsflash for you Jul 15 14:15:07 i can perhaps redirect the lighting that's outside my window to make the newsflash more realistic :) Jul 15 14:15:31 how do i changed wallpaper Jul 15 14:15:44 there is a dbus command Jul 15 14:15:50 timeless_mbp: ok, then I change my reply to: I don't agree with "your own" position :) Jul 15 14:16:11 Andy80: you asked for a workaround, i gave you one Jul 15 14:16:20 geez #maemo is a war room today Jul 15 14:16:22 i also gave you my opinion as someone who works w/ software (for free) Jul 15 14:16:26 I really only have a few small gripes with my n900 so far. a) most applications don't switch to portrait mode b) no way to configure a 'sent folder' in the mail client for imap Jul 15 14:16:31 that's a pretty good score :P Jul 15 14:16:43 * MohammadAG pulls a grenade's pin and throws it at dotblank Jul 15 14:16:44 TMM: are you using PR1.2? Jul 15 14:16:57 SpeedEvil: dbus-monitor doesn't show anything related when i change it Jul 15 14:17:00 ducks under an iptable Jul 15 14:17:00 did you try ctrl-shift-r? Jul 15 14:17:03 timeless: I'm using the 'latest' from that tablet site from nokia Jul 15 14:17:11 * dotblank ducks under an iptable Jul 15 14:17:13 ok, so, did you try ctrl-shift-r? Jul 15 14:17:35 n.b.: it doesn't work if you leave the keyboard out or the n900 on a flat surface Jul 15 14:17:44 timeless_mbp, I did, I found that on some forums too, but it doesn't work Jul 15 14:17:52 TMM: define 'doesn't work'? Jul 15 14:17:59 MohammadAG, you mean you threw the grenade not the pin at me right? Jul 15 14:18:04 timeless_mbp, owwwwwww Jul 15 14:18:06 (it also doesn't so much if you hold the n900 in landscape...) Jul 15 14:18:16 what is ctrl-shift-r Jul 15 14:18:25 Or not Jul 15 14:18:30 kerio: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/views/3/bg-image -t string /home/user/yr/meteogram.png Jul 15 14:18:33 dotblank, grenade, doh Jul 15 14:18:38 TMM: at least among nokia apps, 95% of them mostly work Jul 15 14:18:42 w/ limited glitching Jul 15 14:18:44 SpeedEvil: for all the desktops? Jul 15 14:18:49 MohammadAG, quite a fatal mistake Jul 15 14:18:52 timeless_mbp, sweet, that works in the mail client! not for the desktop though Jul 15 14:19:12 yes Jul 15 14:19:15 TMM: if you're using en-US/en-GB and notice a glitch in the mail client, i have a fix i can provide for you Jul 15 14:19:21 that sets desktop 3 to the aforementioned png Jul 15 14:19:40 timeless_mbp, if you have a patch that allows me to set a 'sent mail' folder? ;) Jul 15 14:19:42 oh, i see Jul 15 14:19:51 TMM: hrm Jul 15 14:19:55 modest is open source Jul 15 14:19:57 you could write one Jul 15 14:20:02 * timeless_mbp has written patches for modest Jul 15 14:20:32 kerio: success with your dbus-scripts ? Jul 15 14:20:33 timeless_mbp, ah I'll get on that then Jul 15 14:20:43 hmm, the update is a bit slow Jul 15 14:20:48 i was looking for something more immediate Jul 15 14:20:58 dotblank, you'll be missed Jul 15 14:21:01 it's enough that i can't have an *actual* xray... Jul 15 14:21:02 :( Jul 15 14:21:09 i want my hand to appear under it! Jul 15 14:21:58 TMM: seriously, i'll gladly help Jul 15 14:22:09 kerio: I remember I had to wrap "play-sound somesound.wav" into a shellscript as probably the parameters got the config file in /etc/dbus-scripts/ messed up Jul 15 14:22:21 kerio: but you are using a script anyway aiui Jul 15 14:22:35 timeless_mbp, I don't have a dev environment for maemo yet, I'll first set that up. Jul 15 14:22:53 timeless_mbp, I've only had the phone since the day before yesterday Jul 15 14:24:54 DocScrutinizer: hmm Jul 15 14:25:06 it works manually Jul 15 14:25:17 (but it's a bit slow :( ) Jul 15 14:25:51 it's not correctly ran by dbus-scripts apparently Jul 15 14:27:33 my playswoosh works Jul 15 14:28:11 do i need to reboot for dbus-scripts to work? Jul 15 14:28:25 line from /etc/dbus-scripts.d/dbus-scripts-settings: /etc/dbus-scripts.d/playswoosh * * org.freedesktop.Hal.Device Condition ButtonPressed cover Jul 15 14:29:13 /etc/dbus-scripts.d/playswoosh is a oneliner script containing /usr/bin/play-sound jdhjkd.wav Jul 15 14:29:25 does the script have to be in that directory? Jul 15 14:29:28 aah mompl Jul 15 14:29:50 Nokia-N900-42-11:/etc/dbus-scripts.d# ../init.d/dbus-scripts stop Nokia-N900-42-11:/etc/dbus-scripts.d# ../init.d/dbus-scripts start Jul 15 14:29:57 dunno if needed Jul 15 14:30:36 kerio: nope for sure not, just give full path to the script in the config file Jul 15 14:30:46 doesn't work :( Jul 15 14:30:59 kerio: tbh I was too lazy to place it somewhere more sane Jul 15 14:31:17 kerio: you chmod a+x the script? Jul 15 14:31:23 yeah Jul 15 14:31:52 /home/user/update_wallpaper.sh Jul 15 14:31:55 runs fine from within a shell Jul 15 14:32:21 line for the dbus-scripts-settings: Jul 15 14:32:42 /home/user/update_wallpaper.sh * * org.freedesktop.Hal.Device Condition ButtonPressed cover Jul 15 14:33:25 kerio: make sure you use full pathnames to comands in your script! Jul 15 14:33:42 huh Jul 15 14:34:23 dbus-scripts-daemon might miss "correct" $PATH settings Jul 15 14:34:45 so don't rely on it Jul 15 14:35:12 DocScrutinizer: it... doesn't work Jul 15 14:35:14 :( Jul 15 14:35:46 kerio: out of ideas Jul 15 14:36:00 you got a typo somehwere Jul 15 14:36:24 try anothe simple script, e,g Jul 15 14:36:31 #!/bin/sh Jul 15 14:36:43 it *is* a simple script Jul 15 14:37:00 /usr/bin/play-sound /fulll/path/to/wav.wav Jul 15 14:37:10 DocScrutinizer: http://pastebin.com/6VS6ht3j Jul 15 14:37:14 and it runs fine when i execute it Jul 15 14:37:46 GAN900: ping Jul 15 14:38:22 kerio: no idea. insert a play-sound as first line, just to test Jul 15 14:38:31 life is gooooood Jul 15 14:39:01 I went from jobless for the past few months, to having 3 companies playing the numbers game to get me :P One of them are sending me to Paris for a couple of nights in a nice little hotel to meet one of their directors :D Jul 15 14:39:04 #!/bin/sh Jul 15 14:39:05 /usr/bin/play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-charging_started.wav Jul 15 14:39:54 kerio: c&p the /usr/... line right after your shebang Jul 15 14:40:34 DocScrutinizer: the script is not run Jul 15 14:40:36 :( Jul 15 14:40:56 please pastebin the dbus-scripts-settings Jul 15 14:41:55 crashanddie: Congrats! Jul 15 14:42:04 thx Jul 15 14:42:11 I'm out, 'later Jul 15 14:43:04 DocScrutinizer: http://pastebin.com/SR6W2ude Jul 15 14:43:09 * DocScrutinizer grumbles Jul 15 14:43:21 numbers game... pah Jul 15 14:43:30 Jul 15 14:43:47 DocScrutinizer: i don't see anything wrong in that Jul 15 14:43:49 :| Jul 15 14:44:01 my script is 755 user:users Jul 15 14:44:40 What software is tmo running on? Jul 15 14:44:47 phpbb? Jul 15 14:45:08 kerio: you stopped and started dbus-scripts in init.d? each time you did an edit? Jul 15 14:45:11 as rot? Jul 15 14:45:14 root? Jul 15 14:45:36 DocScrutinizer: i... i'm dumb Jul 15 14:45:40 * alterego *cough* upstart *cough* Jul 15 14:45:54 although... the script is run twice Jul 15 14:46:06 it's no big deal, but it wastes precious cpu Jul 15 14:46:07 alterego: stop coughing, I don't care about upstart Jul 15 14:46:59 kerio: so I gather it works now? Jul 15 14:47:06 yup Jul 15 14:47:10 k Jul 15 14:47:12 bbl Jul 15 14:52:29 ok, this wallpaper sucks Jul 15 14:52:30 :/ Jul 15 14:53:00 too detailed? Jul 15 14:53:08 no, just... ugly Jul 15 14:53:25 also, slow to update Jul 15 14:54:30 playswoosh is fast :-P Jul 15 14:55:15 but I'll curse it to hell next time I'm in cinema X-P Jul 15 14:55:47 (doesn't obey profiles and vol-settings) Jul 15 14:57:10 DocScrutinizer: is it run twice for you, too? Jul 15 14:57:34 and I really really wonder how this wicked audiosystem is supposed to handle a usecase when I want to play a .wav same level as e.g ringtones are Jul 15 14:57:49 not noticed anything like that Jul 15 14:58:17 but then I'd probably not notice, given the nature of this particular audio Jul 15 14:58:21 sound Jul 15 14:59:00 if it is played double with short skew, and mixed... who could tell Jul 15 15:02:14 hi all, any german n900 user with a simyo 1GB "flat" here? have some troubels reaching any sites, maybe i get a wrong dns/gw from them. need to compare settings :) Jul 15 15:02:17 anybody aware of a manpage or similar obsolete thing, for play-sound? Jul 15 15:02:47 sorry, O2 Jul 15 15:03:00 :( Jul 15 15:03:15 s/troubels/troubles Jul 15 15:03:21 how much's that simyo? Jul 15 15:03:33 9,90eur/month Jul 15 15:03:39 mhm Jul 15 15:03:41 :) Jul 15 15:03:49 but currently it doesnt work Jul 15 15:03:54 :-/ Jul 15 15:04:00 http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/07/15/1317205/Droid-X-Self-Destructs-If-You-Try-To-Mod <- ouch Jul 15 15:04:03 and you can kill the plan every month Jul 15 15:04:03 that's E2? Jul 15 15:04:16 o2? Jul 15 15:04:22 simyo Jul 15 15:04:32 o2 is E1 Jul 15 15:04:40 just a second Jul 15 15:05:43 dont know what you mean exactly, but simyo is a e-plus net Jul 15 15:05:55 yep, E2 then Jul 15 15:06:18 D1, D2, E1, E2 are the basic physical bands Jul 15 15:06:19 ok :) Jul 15 15:06:35 oh, i see Jul 15 15:06:58 so simyo is using the e-plus towers Jul 15 15:07:10 the whole infra to be precise Jul 15 15:07:53 i think so. Jul 15 15:07:55 just a minutes-reseller of e-plus Jul 15 15:07:59 :) Jul 15 15:08:28 I don't like E2, the converage is poor Jul 15 15:08:51 at least it was last time I read about it Jul 15 15:09:09 its ok here (middle of NRW) Jul 15 15:09:19 3G everywhere? Jul 15 15:09:34 HSDPA even? Jul 15 15:09:42 so, 3.5 Jul 15 15:09:51 is it just me or the internet in N900 is sooo sloow. I tried wifi and gprs which both work fast enough in my notebook but not in N900, in the same location Jul 15 15:10:22 smhar: what do you mean by "internet" Jul 15 15:10:42 DocScrutinizer: status says "3g" nearly full Jul 15 15:10:49 I get download bandwidth with 3.5 on N900, my DSL blushes Jul 15 15:10:59 I tried bbc live video from bbc website, and youtube site Jul 15 15:11:11 m( Jul 15 15:11:16 live video, muhahaha Jul 15 15:11:38 smhar: are you serious? Jul 15 15:11:59 smhar: Your problem is flash, not bandwidth. Jul 15 15:12:08 smhar: that's probably a 'video' codec issue much more than a internet-is-slow one. Sorry for muhahaha Jul 15 15:12:16 ^^ Jul 15 15:12:32 X-Fade, anything on perl-modules? Jul 15 15:12:48 docscrutinizer oh.. ok.. but I thought N900 has the required codecs to play flash! Jul 15 15:12:56 MohammadAG: No objections, so probably will come. Jul 15 15:13:09 it has, but not all flash is same Jul 15 15:13:11 required codecs != available CPU power smhar Jul 15 15:13:13 MohammadAG: Just takes a while to go through all channels. Jul 15 15:13:28 smhar: it has, but flash is slow. Jul 15 15:13:33 everywhere. Jul 15 15:13:48 X-Fade, kk, ty :) Jul 15 15:13:57 Flash crashed X on my laptop twice yesterday Jul 15 15:14:32 my workstation at home needs 90%CPU, when I watch an HD-Movie on youtube via flash and 10%, when I watch the same file with mplayer! Jul 15 15:14:51 mohammadAG, meaning it is not practical to play flash on N900? Jul 15 15:15:11 depends on the particular media Jul 15 15:15:15 oh, btw. where can i change my pin? never found the settings Jul 15 15:15:15 smhar: Flash yes, flash video only low res versions. Jul 15 15:15:18 smhar: not for video. Jul 15 15:15:20 youtube's k, anything else, meh Jul 15 15:15:44 flash is bad on all embedded-devices. Jul 15 15:15:47 imho a plugin for microb which directs flvs/mp4 to the media player would be better Jul 15 15:16:02 mohammadAG, I can not play a single video from youtube Jul 15 15:16:15 I can Jul 15 15:16:17 Treibholz: youtube music videos usually "useable" here Jul 15 15:16:28 were even on diablo/N810 Jul 15 15:16:29 no stutter when in fullscreen tbh Jul 15 15:18:39 Youtube I note has some content that requires flash 10 Jul 15 15:18:47 smhar: you might want to use http://www.testmy.net Jul 15 15:19:13 recaller doesn't let me change the recording directory Jul 15 15:19:14 :/ Jul 15 15:19:33 recaler is a miracle to me Jul 15 15:19:39 I need a person from the US, anyone around from there? Jul 15 15:19:57 just has a button to click, to switch it from red to green to red Jul 15 15:20:17 DocScrutinizer: i don't even do that Jul 15 15:20:21 i use the autorec Jul 15 15:20:22 :D Jul 15 15:20:47 kerio: I'd not even know how to do that Jul 15 15:20:57 no UI Jul 15 15:21:10 huh Jul 15 15:21:14 widget settings Jul 15 15:21:15 just a button like widget Jul 15 15:21:30 aah, :o) Jul 15 15:21:40 sooooo obvious Jul 15 15:24:11 kerio: so what does it not do? I can change Save_Folder in settings Jul 15 15:24:29 w00t power back on Jul 15 15:24:36 nah, it's just that the button doesn't reflect the changed dir right after you change it Jul 15 15:24:38 you need to exit the menu and reenter it Jul 15 15:25:55 TomaszD: as in actual citizen or just connected Jul 15 15:26:50 nevermind, I had a US-specific question about street naming there Jul 15 15:26:58 already have the answer Jul 15 15:30:22 who ported the nehe opengl tutorials? Jul 15 15:30:53 I have little programming experience with visualbasic and delphi -on windows-, and I want to start learning python in N900, and probably extend to general linux. I downloaded diveintopython ebook -pdf-. any good links to help me start my journey? Jul 15 15:31:31 dive into python is a good python book Jul 15 15:31:36 umm Jul 15 15:31:41 what's the HW SGX recovery for Jul 15 15:31:48 but it has nothing about GUI programming, iirc Jul 15 15:32:28 what is teh side of the scratchbox ? Jul 15 15:32:36 this thing dont stop of download things Jul 15 15:32:46 i think i will runout of space :( Jul 15 15:32:53 thomas thurman is writing a book about python gui programming for MeeGo: http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman/2010/04/06/working-on-a-book/ Jul 15 15:32:57 it's not out yet Jul 15 15:35:20 well, I do not want to wait till I get meego :-) Jul 15 15:35:39 mgedmin, thomas' latest post indicates hes looking for reviewers Jul 15 15:36:20 yep Jul 15 15:36:57 Anyone have 64bit binaries of Qt 4.7 for madde? Jul 15 15:37:39 alterego, i'm confused? Jul 15 15:38:02 alterego, you want 64bit binaries for sue with madde? Jul 15 15:38:17 Yes Jul 15 15:38:34 alterego, what platform? Jul 15 15:38:36 Um... Why? Jul 15 15:38:40 These are for 32bit Jul 15 15:38:47 Because I use 64bit ubuntu Jul 15 15:39:08 http://chaos.troll.no/~harald/MADDE/ Jul 15 15:39:10 are the 32bit ones not working? Jul 15 15:39:48 Nope Jul 15 15:40:00 And the ones for Qt 4.6 are 64bit as I downloaded Qt Creator for 64 bit Linux Jul 15 15:40:04 im on ubuntu 64bit 10.04 and they work Jul 15 15:40:06 Sorry, Nokia Qt SDK .. Jul 15 15:40:28 Do you have 32 bit binary support installed? Maybe that's the issue ... Jul 15 15:41:10 It shouldn't matter unless its for the qt simulator or a possible x64 sbox target Jul 15 15:41:31 What? Of course it matters. Jul 15 15:41:50 How else do you expect me to run 32 bit qmake on 64 bit Linux ... Jul 15 15:41:56 etc ... Jul 15 15:42:09 the 4.7 version is for compiling on arm or fremantlex85 right... Jul 15 15:42:37 you should just install on your ubuntu system qt 4.7 Jul 15 15:43:15 I used the N900 supplied Backup utility and copied the produced backup directory to my linux notebook. but I can not recognize which file is the contacts address book? Jul 15 15:43:27 -_- Jul 15 15:43:36 Do you know what madde is? Jul 15 15:43:42 yes Jul 15 15:43:47 I use it Jul 15 15:43:47 It has nothing to do with "fremantle x86" Jul 15 15:44:12 I never tried it for use with the x86.. I only use it for arm Jul 15 15:44:32 I see no reason to make for x86 or x64 with madde for that matter Jul 15 15:44:42 That's because it doesn't exist ... Jul 15 15:44:49 It's a cross compilation environment for ARM Jul 15 15:44:51 That is it. Jul 15 15:45:05 the recordings made with recaller suck Jul 15 15:45:10 ._. Jul 15 15:45:11 or do I need to copy that manually? Jul 15 15:45:11 The 4.7 binaries for Linux are 32 bit, I can't run them on 64 bit Linux .. Jul 15 15:45:18 right.... Jul 15 15:45:21 umm Jul 15 15:45:35 if its crosscompilied the 4.7 that comes with made are for armel Jul 15 15:45:40 madde* Jul 15 15:45:43 You say you have them working, I was asking if you have 32 bit compatibility installed. Jul 15 15:45:49 Oh fffs Jul 15 15:45:54 You're not listening are you Jul 15 15:46:05 Do you know what qmake is? Jul 15 15:46:15 Do you know what gcc is? Jul 15 15:46:43 yes Jul 15 15:46:48 I know what all of that is Jul 15 15:47:03 In madde, they're build for linux/windows/darwin they cross compile your source to run on arm Jul 15 15:47:11 But the binaries are compiled for your host development machine. Jul 15 15:47:22 How else do you expect to build software for the N900 _on_ your machine. Jul 15 15:47:27 Do you understand the issue now? Jul 15 15:47:54 right basically... Jul 15 15:48:01 Good, Jul 15 15:48:53 can't you just use the build of madde that was used for 64 bit linux with qt4.6 and link the armel targets and use the libqt4.7 sbox? Jul 15 15:49:07 No Jul 15 15:49:13 And why do you keep talking about sbox? Jul 15 15:49:14 Unless he needs 4.7 properties Jul 15 15:49:22 This has nothing to do with scratchbox ... Jul 15 15:49:27 I don't even have scratchbox installed ... Jul 15 15:49:34 you do within madde Jul 15 15:49:43 Heh ... Jul 15 15:49:46 madde has nothing to do with scratchbox Jul 15 15:49:56 alterego: chroot? Jul 15 15:49:57 oh, it's not recaller Jul 15 15:49:59 dotblank: you got the slider sound working? Jul 15 15:50:07 it's Multimedia that sucks balls Jul 15 15:50:07 whew Jul 15 15:50:13 alterego: what makes you assume his desktop is anything other than ARM Jul 15 15:50:14 mplayer or cvlc? Jul 15 15:50:18 * wt creater has an sbox environment Jul 15 15:50:22 * qt Jul 15 15:50:31 DocScrutinizer, with groove? Jul 15 15:50:32 dotblank: madde and scratchbox are completely different things. Jul 15 15:50:49 dotblank: no, Qt creator uses madde, madde has nothing to do with scratchbox. Jul 15 15:50:52 lockdaemon allows sounds with keyboard slides Jul 15 15:50:54 dotblank: groove? Jul 15 15:51:05 but it needs libqt4-maemo5-* so someone has to recompile it Jul 15 15:51:07 DocScrutinizer, oh yes.. yes I did Jul 15 15:51:40 MohammadAG: uhum, lockdaemon. what's that? Jul 15 15:52:11 a daemon which vibrates the device if the screen is locked/unlocked and if the keyboard is open/closed Jul 15 15:52:18 also allows sounds for keyboard slides Jul 15 15:52:26 hopbeat's the dev Jul 15 15:52:38 anyway... Jul 15 15:52:38 what do you guys use for playing media? Jul 15 15:52:51 you can try compiling madde yourself http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools/madde Jul 15 15:52:55 hmm, sounds like a config for dbus-scripts daemon Jul 15 15:52:56 The media player :) Jul 15 15:53:08 dotblank: I was thinking about it. Jul 15 15:53:17 DocScrutinizer, nope, it's a daemon on its own Jul 15 15:53:20 But I was just wondering if anyone else in the same boat as me has it working. Jul 15 15:53:24 but you also need 64bit qt4.7 libs Jul 15 15:53:29 overkill? Jul 15 15:53:30 soo where to find that... Jul 15 15:53:42 You say you have it working, and that you use 64 bit ubuntu 10.04 like I do, I was only asking if you had ia32-libs installed ... Jul 15 15:54:01 yes I do have ia32-libs Jul 15 15:54:02 dotblank: no, I don't. Jul 15 15:54:21 dotblank: I'd refrain from trying to describe madde when it's kind of obvious you don't know much about how it works :P Jul 15 15:54:57 ok now im very confused.. Jul 15 15:55:07 does maddde use qt for internal function? Jul 15 15:55:11 madde* Jul 15 15:55:22 liek do you have to link libqt to compile it/ Jul 15 15:55:24 dotblank: madde just compiles your programs against ARM versions of qt Jul 15 15:55:48 qmake and all the tools required for building are compiled for ia32 or amd64 Jul 15 15:55:49 alterego, ok right so the qt libs distributed with madde are armel bins Jul 15 15:55:55 Yes Jul 15 15:56:29 So, qmake and gcc are compiled for your host machine, but configured to build ARMEL binaries against ARMEL libraries installed in the build environment. Jul 15 15:56:33 Anyhow, I've gotta go Jul 15 15:56:47 ia32 support is installed on my machine and it isn't working ... Jul 15 15:56:49 bbl Jul 15 15:57:01 I'm wondering if you could just take the 64 b it madde binaries and replace the distributed qt armel qt libs with the 4.7 ones Jul 15 15:58:48 dotblank: no, qmake is built with information specific to the version of Qt it's built with Jul 15 15:59:07 ia32 support is installed on my machine and it isn't working ... Jul 15 15:59:09 alright Jul 15 15:59:22 so it has a 64bit qmake based on qt 4.7 Jul 15 15:59:24 If ubuntu hadn't fucked up KVM I'd be using a nice 32 bit virtual machine to do all my development in >:( Jul 15 16:00:08 if your host machine had a native install of libqt 4.7 couldn't you use your native qmake? Jul 15 16:00:57 but use the mkspecs with the armel qt4.7 Jul 15 16:15:05 Maybe, but I don't want to pollute my desktop ... Jul 15 16:26:27 if xorg.conf is generated automatically, how do I see what was generated? Jul 15 16:26:52 You could create it yourself :P Jul 15 16:27:27 MohammadAG: /var/log/Xorg.0.log Jul 15 16:27:40 not exactly how xorg.conf is Jul 15 16:27:49 but give you the idea of what option are setup Jul 15 16:28:12 ty :) Jul 15 16:28:16 or X -configure , i think that generate the same xorg.conf that is generate when X start Jul 15 16:30:13 hi, tried to run a simple helloworld executable in scratchbox arm ..it says cannot find file or directory ..can any one help Jul 15 16:30:32 i guess the qemu-arm-sb is not set properly Jul 15 16:30:35 ping all Jul 15 16:34:36 looks ppl are not active.. Jul 15 16:36:40 ping: derf: Jul 15 16:36:53 madhav: Pong. Jul 15 16:37:14 ah great! Jul 15 16:37:32 hi, tried to run a simple helloworld executable in scratchbox arm ..it says cannot find file or directory ..can any one help Jul 15 16:37:41 got any idea..? Jul 15 16:38:02 i guess its some issue with cpu transparency..qemu-arm-sb Jul 15 16:38:14 derf: ;) Jul 15 16:40:58 try running ldd your-executable Jul 15 16:41:37 srsly, #xorg is the most useless channel on FreeNode Jul 15 16:41:50 did..it says cannot load Jul 15 16:42:18 if i try with qemu-arm-sb a.out..it runs fine Jul 15 16:42:24 luke-jr: you've never been to ##gtfo :P Jul 15 16:43:02 jacejowski: i guess its a conf problem Jul 15 16:45:01 is there any scratchbox setup expert? Jul 15 16:47:09 http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/07/15/1317205/Droid-X-Self-Destructs-If-You-Try-To-Mod - the shape of things to come? Jul 15 16:47:48 madhav, what does 'file a.out' say (or however you named your executable if not a.out) Jul 15 16:48:13 it says ELF 32 ARM... Jul 15 16:48:33 how did you create your scratchbox? Jul 15 16:48:49 as i already told ..when i run qemu-arm-sb a.out it runs Jul 15 16:49:43 using the instructions..http://repository.maemo.org/stable/diablo/INSTALL.txt Jul 15 16:50:36 mgeadmin: ive selected armel target using sb-menu Jul 15 16:51:11 what distro? Jul 15 16:51:42 linux Jul 15 16:51:54 ubuntu 10.04 Jul 15 16:53:51 diablo is for n8x0, right? Jul 15 16:54:01 mgeadmin: yes Jul 15 16:54:22 mgeadmin: my build distro is ubuntu Jul 15 16:55:00 mgeadmin: im trying to cross compile chrome.. Jul 15 16:55:02 saw that Jul 15 16:55:13 I've last used scratchbox with 9.10, I think Jul 15 16:55:17 it's on my external hdd Jul 15 16:55:35 mgeadmin: there is a exe..genmacro..in chrome Jul 15 16:56:21 mgeadmin: it needs to run on armel target to go ahead..so i tried to run a simple hw exe to see it uses qemu to load it Jul 15 16:57:19 mgeadmin: to my attempt it didnt run...it rather runs by explicity calling /usr/bin/qemu-arm-sb a.out Jul 15 16:58:06 hmm Jul 15 16:58:37 jacekowski: uve knew a soln.. ;) Jul 15 16:58:40 cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/sbox-armeb Jul 15 16:58:47 madhav, also, what does grep SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD /scratchbox/users/*/targets/*.confg say? Jul 15 16:59:54 hmm Jul 15 16:59:56 not eb Jul 15 17:00:02 just arm Jul 15 17:00:04 cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/sbox-arm Jul 15 17:00:13 eb is for oposite endianess Jul 15 17:00:52 jacekowski: what is that cat for? Jul 15 17:01:29 for meowing Jul 15 17:01:32 meoww Jul 15 17:01:57 then do dog /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/sbox-arm Jul 15 17:02:02 but that's not going to work Jul 15 17:02:10 do it with a cat Jul 15 17:02:10 no, then the cat will run away Jul 15 17:02:12 man dog Jul 15 17:04:29 jacekowski: mgeadmin: im not @build system..so cannot try.. Jul 15 17:04:57 so trying to figure out..will let u know tomm..thanks for support Jul 15 17:05:18 how do I execute commands when a GPIO event occurs Jul 15 17:05:24 Anyone managed to sync contacts with ovi? Jul 15 17:06:12 alterego, yeah Jul 15 17:06:23 but you'll need a ... Jul 15 17:06:26 How? PC suite? Jul 15 17:06:31 MohammadAG: DocScrutinizer already said that Jul 15 17:06:32 no, another Nokia device Jul 15 17:06:36 MohammadAG: dbusscriptsomething Jul 15 17:06:38 jacekowski, not on maemo Jul 15 17:06:40 Urgh. Jul 15 17:06:51 So,export, import, sync? Jul 15 17:06:53 jacekowski: do u want me to set that value for sbox_armeb Jul 15 17:07:08 sync with symbian device, sync symbian device with Ovi Jul 15 17:07:08 to '1' Jul 15 17:07:22 Yeah Jul 15 17:07:29 Okay, Jul 15 17:07:54 * mgedmin doesn't understand _why_ people try to debug complicated systems when they don't have access to those systems Jul 15 17:07:55 madhav: Jul 15 17:08:00 yeah Jul 15 17:10:46 jacekowski: if i run this way it works../scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/qemu-arm-sb a.out Jul 15 17:11:12 so its something related to sbox disabled and qemu enabled.. Jul 15 17:12:01 is dsme closed source? Jul 15 17:12:07 w t f : "http://www.youmobile.org/blogs/entry/Nokia-N900-to-get-an-Update-to-Maemo6-later-in-2010-" Jul 15 17:12:15 That person shouldn't even own a blog :S Jul 15 17:12:39 mgeadmin: i have no access to irc @ my build system..thats the reason.. Jul 15 17:13:16 alterego: wtf Jul 15 17:13:45 MohammadAG: kind of Jul 15 17:13:50 MohammadAG: they published a source Jul 15 17:13:55 MohammadAG: but never updated it Jul 15 17:14:16 MohammadAG: so source for version little bit older than current is avaliable Jul 15 17:14:20 meh Jul 15 17:14:32 it's still pretty much the same Jul 15 17:15:27 Stskeeps: do you agree? :P Jul 15 17:16:39 alterego: news to me Jul 15 17:17:52 oh dear god, the idiot is on facebook Jul 15 17:18:32 Several idiots are Jul 15 17:18:39 and just posted to nokia n900 group Jul 15 17:18:56 Stskeeps: that's where I got it ... Jul 15 17:19:13 Do I just enable DLNA media sharing on my network, and the server on my computer will show up on the N900 media player? Jul 15 17:19:45 * luke-jr ponders loading a 1U rack up with OMAP3s and renting them as dedicated servers Jul 15 17:19:57 technomike, yeah Jul 15 17:20:21 I have a box with 1000 processors. Jul 15 17:20:33 Though they are 80c31, and not soldered to anything. Jul 15 17:21:17 crashanddie, :) Jul 15 17:21:25 technomike: yeah, it should be so. Jul 15 17:21:38 Thanks ;) Jul 15 17:25:24 argh, still don't get why the pointer doesn't work properly in ubuntu on the N900 Jul 15 17:26:25 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58529 Stskeeps alterego lol Jul 15 17:28:22 urgh Jul 15 17:28:24 More crap Jul 15 17:28:51 MohammadAG - How well does Ubuntu run on the N900? Jul 15 17:29:02 very slowly Jul 15 17:29:05 lol Jul 15 17:29:10 very very very very very very very very slowly Jul 15 17:29:11 Ubuntu always runs very slowly Jul 15 17:29:12 it's GNOME Jul 15 17:29:18 how about trying it first jacekowski :) Jul 15 17:29:24 it's not that slow Jul 15 17:29:33 well, it's slow on 1.6GHz x86 with 2G of ram Jul 15 17:29:45 it's only going to be worse on 600MHz ARM with 256M of ram Jul 15 17:29:55 I think the last system I tried it on was a 900 MHz PowerPC Jul 15 17:29:57 lol I'm on 1.7GHz with 1GB ram Jul 15 17:30:03 and I'm running lucid Jul 15 17:30:07 it's not slow Jul 15 17:30:19 i think your definition of slow is different than mine Jul 15 17:30:23 MohammadAG: you must have never tried KDE or Windows Jul 15 17:30:42 luke-jr, windows is shit, KDE is windows-y Jul 15 17:30:49 slow = !instant Jul 15 17:30:55 Windows is crap, yes, but not slow Jul 15 17:30:59 at least, not last time I used it Jul 15 17:31:03 which was Windows 2000 Jul 15 17:31:07 slow is an understatement :P Jul 15 17:31:08 KDE isn't Windows-y at all Jul 15 17:31:27 MohammadAG, the slow you are on about is compositing most likely ;) Jul 15 17:31:42 lcuk, I was referring to windows-slow :) Jul 15 17:31:47 luke-jr, run your ubuntu on normal system without wobbly windows at 4000*3000 resolution ;) Jul 15 17:31:56 haha Jul 15 17:31:58 wobbly windows, xD Jul 15 17:32:01 xD Jul 15 17:32:04 lcuk: cool eh? Jul 15 17:32:09 it runs w/ wobbly windows here :P Jul 15 17:32:13 lcuk: last time I tried predates wobbly windows Jul 15 17:32:15 (on laptop) Jul 15 17:32:31 6.06 I think Jul 15 17:32:32 is building apps against libmeegotouch fixed? Jul 15 17:32:32 crashanddie :) you wanna see a video Jul 15 17:32:41 lcuk: bring it on :) Jul 15 17:34:51 http://liqbase.net/20100715_004.mp4 Jul 15 17:34:51 LMAO Jul 15 17:34:52 excellent Jul 15 17:34:52 i sussed out how to make it work Jul 15 17:34:52 dude, show it to #maemo Jul 15 17:34:52 heh Jul 15 17:35:15 This is probably the best thing you've ever done lcuk Jul 15 17:35:27 well, apart from onedotzero Jul 15 17:35:36 and the fact liqbase never had tearing Jul 15 17:35:53 * Jaffa clicks the link Jul 15 17:35:57 submissions proposal deadline for this years onedotzero is tomorrow Jul 15 17:36:09 :) now i know i can do this bit i can write the rest of hte spec ;) Jul 15 17:37:04 lcuk: Wow! Jul 15 17:37:55 This python-qt-blaablaablaa is killing me. Jul 15 17:38:03 :) Jaffa Jul 15 17:38:22 * D-Iivil is trying to learn pyhton for n900 Jul 15 17:38:28 lcuk: How's the camera got enough light to detect anything? Jul 15 17:38:39 lcuk: Or is it something cleverer than that? Jul 15 17:38:42 Jaffa, leds/bright spots Jul 15 17:38:50 i tried with ar markers for ages but i couldnt get it reliable Jul 15 17:38:59 crashanddie, sucker. Jul 15 17:39:09 GAN900: why Jul 15 17:39:11 lcuk: Cool Jul 15 17:39:41 crashanddie, cause I can't make fun of you for being a jobless schmuck anymore. Jul 15 17:39:51 GAN900: well, I'm still jobless Jul 15 17:39:55 haven't signed a contract yet Jul 15 17:40:09 Good Jul 15 17:40:30 crashanddie, more seriously, congratulations on the opportunities. :) Jul 15 17:40:39 lcuk: cool stuff (your video) Jul 15 17:41:06 konttori, indeed ive wanted that for a while Jul 15 17:41:17 * lcuk knew it could work but i just didnt know how to do it Jul 15 17:41:23 I upgraded my price plan yesterday and now I get 2000 minutes, unlimited texts, unlimited data, and unlimited 3 to 3 calls !! £25 a month! amazing :D Jul 15 17:41:44 nifty. using camera for line crossing detection or what? Jul 15 17:41:55 fix me! https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10882 Jul 15 17:41:55 Bug 10882: libmeegotouch-dev has missing dependencies Jul 15 17:42:45 vote for it! Jul 15 17:43:11 I'm this I__I close throwing the damn machine out of the window! I mean, how difficult can it be; I have a nice GUI done with few drop down lists @ QT-designer, I have a shell script made already and all I need is a one fucking button @ UI to launch that script with certain options based on user's choices on the GUI. Jul 15 17:43:39 But no. Don't know what to google anymore. Jul 15 17:44:24 * D-Iivil thinks now is the right time to open a beer Jul 15 17:45:13 konttori, uses the camera and identifies a set of brightspots - its essentially doing multitouch calculations to recognise things http://liqbase.net/liq.20100713_231803.liqcam_run1.scr.png Jul 15 17:45:52 it appears to give me position size and rotation :) Jul 15 17:46:01 nice ;) Jul 15 17:46:32 best thing :) it *should* technically work the same on the n810 Jul 15 17:46:44 cos thats where i first thought about it Jul 15 17:47:53 cool vid lcuk Jul 15 17:48:45 ok, its on youtube now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM Jul 15 17:49:36 lcuk: it looks cool, but what re the practical uses of such a solution? Jul 15 17:50:02 Venemo: just as he demonstrated Jul 15 17:50:05 Venemo, what are the practical uses of anything, open source = fun Jul 15 17:50:09 Venemo, i have multiple devices and want to have different pieces of the same application to be grouped together Jul 15 17:50:14 ah, okay Jul 15 17:50:26 Venemo: tracking a light source (such as a lamp), would give you horizontal and vertical movement Jul 15 17:50:38 Venemo: multiple light sources allow for rotation and elevation Jul 15 17:51:25 Venemo: practical uses, just as lcuk showed, switching between apps, between desktops Jul 15 17:51:57 * lcuk is just testing boundaries :) Jul 15 17:52:07 also, who needs a compass if you have this? Jul 15 17:52:17 -rw-r--r-- 1 luke-jr luke-jr 1746143 Apr 15 01:51 boot/zImage-2.6.28-20101501+0m5.fiasco Jul 15 17:52:18 lol Jul 15 17:52:19 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1836160 Jul 15 12:48 arch/arm/boot/zImage Jul 15 17:52:25 GCC version alone? O.o Jul 15 17:52:30 crashanddie, compass is still needed Jul 15 17:52:45 lcuk: well, for outside VR, maybe Jul 15 17:52:54 this beats compass though because it will allow mechines to detect relative position to each other Jul 15 17:52:59 lcuk: but for inside motion tracking, this could work fairly well Jul 15 17:53:06 lcuk: indeed Jul 15 17:53:11 lcuk: liqflow coupled with this Jul 15 17:53:12 1746143 vs 1769492 actually Jul 15 17:53:17 i already have a high 5 applicaiton in ponderment ;) Jul 15 17:53:27 lcuk: crashanddie's got a point - use the time to work out where the sun is, then that's the brightest spot ;-) Jul 15 17:53:28 who is responsible for liq* btw? Jul 15 17:53:34 luke-jr: lcuk Jul 15 17:53:37 ah Jul 15 17:53:39 * lcuk holds hand up Jul 15 17:53:48 lcuk: you seem to be less verbal about it than you used to :P Jul 15 17:54:20 lcuk: it'd be lovely if it could do that in hardware. Jul 15 17:54:41 luke-jr indeed ive been busier than usual working on maemo Jul 15 17:54:46 SpeedEvil, hm? Jul 15 17:54:51 lcuk: The wiimote cam does it all in hardware - extracts centroids of 10(?) brightest spots automagically. Jul 15 17:55:05 SpeedEvil, yeah same basic premise Jul 15 17:55:06 vocal* Jul 15 17:55:12 except wiimote uses 8 leds Jul 15 17:55:15 SpeedEvil: 16 Jul 15 17:55:38 I'd believe 16. Jul 15 17:55:41 SpeedEvil, mine is based on a triangle Jul 15 17:55:41 so anyway... 1746143 vs 1769492 -- could the only difference be compiler? Jul 15 17:55:51 I wish these sorts of chips were avaialbale to mortals. Jul 15 17:55:57 ? Jul 15 17:55:59 the camera is Jul 15 17:56:03 SpeedEvil: it can track up to 16 spots independently, after 16 it starts dropping the sensitivity to fade out some Jul 15 17:56:17 Naah - tiny cameras with silly framerate and onboard image processing Jul 15 17:56:24 Haha! That's really cool and so easy. DLNA media streaming. :D Jul 15 17:56:32 its working great Jul 15 17:56:36 SpeedEvil, 320*240 and as fast as it can be delivered Jul 15 17:56:39 * luke-jr grumbles Jul 15 17:56:41 and quite an optimal processing algo Jul 15 17:56:58 but i have to go write more Jul 15 18:01:17 btw. there is one interesting block in CAL Jul 15 18:01:25 well, 2 blocks Jul 15 18:01:47 cert-npc and cert-ccc and cert-hwc Jul 15 18:04:40 what is this rumor about maemo6 about? Jul 15 18:05:00 ZogG - Its obviously fake :P Jul 15 18:05:05 i know Jul 15 18:05:19 but it annoys me =) Jul 15 18:05:24 i got it on facebook Jul 15 18:05:29 Some idiot has just made it up and published it on his blog haha Jul 15 18:05:35 maemo over9000 Jul 15 18:05:57 and other idiots are believing it :P Jul 15 18:06:11 i want to believe (c) Jul 15 18:07:24 has anyone here run into the bug where plugging in the headphones doesn't work unless done really slowly? Jul 15 18:07:47 I'm not too keen on flashing my phone. Jul 15 18:08:09 me Jul 15 18:08:19 i don't know if it physical or not Jul 15 18:08:23 at my case Jul 15 18:08:36 i don't do it slow i just doing it over and over till it works Jul 15 18:08:49 blizzow; I only use bluetooth Jul 15 18:09:04 Trizt, which one? Jul 15 18:09:21 ZogG: Re-flashing my phone fixed it for a long time. A couple of months later, I installed some packages and suddenly I have the same problem again. Jul 15 18:09:28 one moment, had it so long I forgot Jul 15 18:09:51 blizzow what can i say man, if you don't find it at bugtracker - you are welcome to fill it Jul 15 18:10:07 Trizt, i'm considering buying one Jul 15 18:10:19 ZogG; BH-214 Jul 15 18:10:27 Trizt does it eats too much battery (for music for example) Jul 15 18:10:52 ZogG; it's a bit tricky to use, as the buttons don't work if you don't press on the exact right place Jul 15 18:11:21 Trizt but do n900 supports the buttons? Jul 15 18:11:24 ZogG; I recharge it once a week, I listen like 45min / day Jul 15 18:11:35 Trizt i mean the n900 battery Jul 15 18:11:40 ZogG; yes it does, at least in the player Jul 15 18:12:22 Trizt damn Jul 15 18:12:28 ZogG; Not too badly think it takes like 8% (or less) for those 45mins Jul 15 18:12:38 hmm Jul 15 18:12:50 I have to say I never thoguth about it Jul 15 18:13:01 i'm gonna ride bicycle everyday now to work for about ~40 mins i would like to have music Jul 15 18:14:37 ZogG; you may be interested of a Proporta 3400 external battery/charger Jul 15 18:14:52 is it really good? Jul 15 18:16:04 I think it is Jul 15 18:16:08 handhelds have far too easy a time getting lost :( Jul 15 18:21:12 luke-jr: the good thing about phones is you can ring them when they get lost. Jul 15 18:21:32 Venemo: but this is #Maemo, not #Android or #Symbian Jul 15 18:22:38 luke-jr: the N900 has a phone, so you can find it by ringing it. Jul 15 18:22:50 tbh. nolo is the best piece of code from nokia i saw so far Jul 15 18:23:00 Venemo: you assume everyone purchases a voice plan Jul 15 18:23:03 jacekowski: what is nolo? Jul 15 18:23:09 ... Jul 15 18:23:11 Nokia Loader Jul 15 18:23:16 luke-jr: well, sorry. I did Jul 15 18:23:23 jacekowski: what's that? Jul 15 18:23:30 Venemo: n900 bootloader Jul 15 18:23:33 same principle applies to SSH I suppose Jul 15 18:23:42 and i don't say that very often Jul 15 18:23:44 but N810 battery dies too fast Jul 15 18:23:51 and C760 battery is .. dead Jul 15 18:23:55 jacekowski: ah. Jul 15 18:24:04 haven't lost N900 yet Jul 15 18:24:12 only a matter of time I'm sure Jul 15 18:25:07 jacekowski: nolo? Jul 15 18:25:09 luke-jr: you can put in it a pay-as-you-go SIM Jul 15 18:25:20 D-Iivil: jacekowski: Venemo: n900 bootloader Jul 15 18:25:28 Venemo: for N900, yes; that doesn't cover N810 or C760 Jul 15 18:25:45 Venemo: in all cases, I could SSH and play some sound file if the battery isn't dead yet tho Jul 15 18:26:39 Venomo, ok. The name "nolo" just caught my attention. It's "mortified / embarrassed" in finnish. Jul 15 18:27:24 luke-jr: yes, you could Jul 15 18:27:55 D-Iivil: I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with Finnish Jul 15 18:28:28 Venemo: well, I can assure you you're not the only one on this planet :P Jul 15 18:28:44 lol Jul 15 18:28:50 D-Iivil: yeah. Jul 15 18:28:52 funny Nokia is in Finland tho ;) Jul 15 18:29:05 we can only conclude the nolo code must be terrible Jul 15 18:29:32 I just though if they finally realized mistakes they have made and now put a name that stands for the truth for a product :P Jul 15 18:29:41 LoL Jul 15 18:30:06 luke-jr: that's exactly what the word means in street slang. Shitty. So shitty that's embarrasing to show it to anyone :P Jul 15 18:31:06 Maybe the next one will be called as "Molo" which means dick... Jul 15 18:31:27 they've been NOLO since at least N800 Jul 15 18:31:37 lcuk: front cam? Jul 15 18:31:57 Hi. Where do I go on the web again to browse packages in extras-testing? Jul 15 18:32:00 yes DocScrutinizer Jul 15 18:32:06 :-) Jul 15 18:32:13 cheater Jul 15 18:32:15 luke-jr: well, it isn't Jul 15 18:32:22 luke-jr: it's quite a nice code Jul 15 18:32:26 everybody thinks it's main cam to paper Jul 15 18:32:35 jacekowski: how do you know? ;) Jul 15 18:32:39 luke-jr: it looks like somebody writing nolo really knew what he was doing Jul 15 18:32:44 lcuk: damn cute Jul 15 18:32:44 DocScrutinizer, that would not be absolute positioning though which i need Jul 15 18:32:49 luke-jr: what do you think Jul 15 18:33:24 DocScrutinizer, when i tie it up with the newer liq* modules it will be better Jul 15 18:33:26 jacekowski: nfc, I havent seen code Jul 15 18:33:30 lcuk: could I fix the 3 LED to my hat? Jul 15 18:33:37 sure :D Jul 15 18:33:47 luke-jr: i didn't as well Jul 15 18:33:58 it probably wouldnt work in direct sunlight though Jul 15 18:33:58 kwtm: http://maemo.org/packages/ Jul 15 18:34:06 mind you, nothing would Jul 15 18:34:21 luke-jr: i'm just looking into disassembler listing Jul 15 18:34:21 DocScrutinizer, ive got the lights actually coming from another n900 atm Jul 15 18:34:32 hehehe Jul 15 18:34:34 and making them high 5 each other ;) Jul 15 18:34:38 GCC writes good code? :P Jul 15 18:34:39 lcuk: take near IR pulsed LEDs, they will work during atomix flash Jul 15 18:35:13 luke-jr: not really Jul 15 18:35:15 Venemo you can't ring your phone when you lose it, as you don't have phone to ring from =) Jul 15 18:35:17 lol DocScrutinizer - i considered that as well but the specs on the camera and the filter over the top makes it less than effective Jul 15 18:35:19 lcuk: when you pulse the LED wit ~12.5HZ Jul 15 18:35:30 ZogG: you borrow another from the family Jul 15 18:35:31 luke-jr: but what gcc generates is very influenced by C code Jul 15 18:35:43 you can diff two frames and get LEDs in brightest sunlight Jul 15 18:35:44 ZogG: or ask someone else Jul 15 18:35:53 gcc is very good at low level loop optimisations Jul 15 18:36:01 jacekowski: not on ARM, IMO Jul 15 18:36:14 DocScrutinizer, possible - its all expandable Jul 15 18:36:15 jacekowski: based on my own disassembly, GCC must totally reorder everything Jul 15 18:36:18 i just happy it works at all Jul 15 18:36:33 luke-jr: besides, it looks like it's not gcc Jul 15 18:36:46 luke-jr: there are some tricks in code that i know gcc doesn't know how to do Jul 15 18:36:46 lcuk: it's really smart. congrats Jul 15 18:37:08 \o/ ta dude Jul 15 18:38:07 was that you who asked me about trigonometric calculations for a triangle in camera analysis, some months ago? Jul 15 18:39:04 or was somebody else thinking along same line? Jul 15 18:39:21 it mightv been, ive had a few ideas for how to pull this off for a while Jul 15 18:39:34 hmm yes Jul 15 18:39:37 but it got viable to use the camera once i sussed a few things out and learnt about filtering algos Jul 15 18:40:24 also that's been you with edge detection and lowpass filtering? Jul 15 18:40:32 yeah Jul 15 18:40:43 *smile* Jul 15 18:41:50 DocScrutinizer: tell him... he is the chosen one Jul 15 18:41:52 :P Jul 15 18:42:00 ~hail lcuk Jul 15 18:42:01 * infobot bows down to lcuk and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Jul 15 18:42:54 now that's a really nice box of Lego blocks now, to pull off some high level smartass things Jul 15 18:43:22 I wish N900 actually had a full 4 bB eMMC Jul 15 18:43:45 4 BubbaByte? Jul 15 18:43:53 luke-jr: what is 4 bB? Jul 15 18:44:06 bitebytes Jul 15 18:44:35 indeed DocScrutinizer :) i like building little things Jul 15 18:44:37 Venemo: equivalent of 32 base-1024 GB Jul 15 18:44:43 bongbloks Jul 15 18:45:04 sigh... the mail program after PR1.2 has gotten worse :( Jul 15 18:45:44 luke-jr: DO NOT TELL ME TONAL!!! Jul 15 18:45:55 DocScrutinizer: tonal-based :) Jul 15 18:46:01 Tonal predates data units altogether Jul 15 18:46:04 the mail program is ... well, it doesn't even worth mentioning Jul 15 18:46:05 fsckofff Jul 15 18:46:13 so I had to improvise :) Jul 15 18:46:36 you mean GiB Jul 15 18:46:43 kerio: no, I mean classical GB Jul 15 18:46:46 GibbyBytes Jul 15 18:46:52 GiB is just something the SI idiots made up to force their SI crap on us Jul 15 18:47:07 SI == Sports Illustrated FYI Jul 15 18:47:10 I used bB to avoid this argument :) Jul 15 18:47:22 * DocScrutinizer rolls eyes and makes obscene sounds with finger in mouth Jul 15 18:47:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI disagrees, trip0 Jul 15 18:47:36 luke-jr, which only provokes us to talk about the argument Jul 15 18:48:17 ds3: agreed re: "the mail program after PR1.2 has gotten worse " Jul 15 18:48:25 luke-jr, I know it disagrees. But wikipedia is wrong in this case. Sports Illustrated is the sports authority. and the only body with enough magazine issues to force such a standard Jul 15 18:48:27 unusable Jul 15 18:48:38 plus they have an annual swimsuit issue Jul 15 18:48:47 the argument for the mail program is its integration with the rest of the system Jul 15 18:49:06 SI > you Jul 15 18:49:16 has anyone gotten commandline MH working on the N900? Jul 15 18:49:24 ChuckNorris > SI Jul 15 18:49:41 anyhow, I define 1 blok as a 128 (base-1024) KB quantity Jul 15 18:49:43 luke-jr: SI GiB were invented to stop US (mainly) marketing blockheads hijacking the base2 system by telling us 1MB == 1000 kB Jul 15 18:50:15 which makes a blokbong equal to 1 bit, and a blokmill equal to 2 bytes Jul 15 18:50:26 btw, just a side question Jul 15 18:50:34 is Modest is open source, why don't we do anything about it? Jul 15 18:50:36 and a millblok, half a base-1024 gigabyte Jul 15 18:50:48 Venemo: easier to use KMail Jul 15 18:51:13 Venemo: we saved it all for you :-D Jul 15 18:51:24 KMail? Jul 15 18:51:47 luke-jr: someone got kmail integrated into the N900? Jul 15 18:51:59 no but KDE Jul 15 18:52:01 :-P Jul 15 18:52:03 ds3: no, but I will probably be running Gentoo before long as my sole OS :P Jul 15 18:52:11 is KMail available for Maemo? Jul 15 18:52:18 blah Jul 15 18:52:35 if the internal mailer is anything like normal modest, it blows chunks Jul 15 18:52:47 I get better functionality running elm Jul 15 18:52:49 KMail is luke-jr 's tonal version of claws, I guess Jul 15 18:52:55 no Jul 15 18:52:59 KMail is KDE's mail app Jul 15 18:53:10 orlly Jul 15 18:53:13 i'm tempted to try kde on ubuntu on the N900 Jul 15 18:53:40 btw, is there any alternative to Modest? Jul 15 18:53:52 claws Jul 15 18:53:58 I heard Jul 15 18:54:01 now that I have a working cross-kernel, I'm getting my N900 setup to build and flash its own kernels <.< Jul 15 18:54:17 DocScrutinizer: is that the non-finger-friendly stuff that is half-working? Jul 15 18:54:20 btw, in reality I'm quite satisfied with Modest on my N900 at the moment Jul 15 18:54:27 Venemo: prolly Jul 15 18:54:44 enough that I planned to use it as my sole email client when my power was out Jul 15 18:54:58 luke-jr: Why not just use kexec? Jul 15 18:55:13 alterego: why kexec when I can flash? :P Jul 15 18:55:16 luke-jr: modest is not that bad, just unconvenient Jul 15 18:55:17 tbh I'm not satisfied with mail processing on a mobile device, so modest is just sufficient for as much as a bother Jul 15 18:55:35 luke-jr: quicker Jul 15 18:55:38 well, there is no option to mark all mails as read. Jul 15 18:55:48 alterego: not if you want to boot the kernel every single boot Jul 15 18:55:58 => so, when I refresh my inbox and have 100 new mails, I have to mark them read one by one Jul 15 18:56:03 Well, then flash once you've tested with kexec :D Jul 15 18:56:09 Venemo: that's a good thing Jul 15 18:56:14 you shouldn't mark them read until you read them :D Jul 15 18:56:17 alterego: sure Jul 15 18:56:26 alterego: has anyone actually confirmed kexec works on N900? Jul 15 18:56:38 luke-jr: no idea. Jul 15 18:56:41 Heh Jul 15 18:56:43 * luke-jr wonders if his kexec support ever got merged into bootmenu Jul 15 18:56:59 I just remember seeing it in boot menu .. Jul 15 18:57:06 So I presumed that's how it worked .. Jul 15 18:57:09 hehe Jul 15 18:57:21 I made a kexec branch of bootmenu that works in theory... Jul 15 18:57:25 but I never got to testing it Jul 15 18:57:26 XD Jul 15 18:57:32 Hah Jul 15 18:57:40 luke-jr: how so? if I read them all previously on my computer, it is annoying to mark them as read again Jul 15 18:57:54 Venemo: Modest ignores the read flag? Jul 15 18:58:01 as much as I dislike iPhone, the IMAP support of their mail client is pretty slick and works far better, faster and more reliably than maemo mail. :( Jul 15 18:58:22 luke-jr: what is a read flag? Jul 15 18:58:26 ... Jul 15 18:58:28 IMHO of course :) Jul 15 18:58:34 the status flag that marks a message as read Jul 15 18:58:40 hmm Jul 15 18:58:46 mtnbkr: but you can't attach attatchments directly from mail client @ iPhone :-P Jul 15 18:58:54 luke-jr: well, I dunno if it should work for POP3 as well Jul 15 18:58:58 i seriously want to get an iPhone to see what people see in it Jul 15 18:59:01 Venemo: people use POP3 still? Jul 15 18:59:15 i mean, i've played with 10 or so iPhones, the app store sucks Jul 15 18:59:24 mtnbkr: or at least we didn't figure it out while trying to do it with my co-worker's iPhone couple days ago. Only way to send an image via e-mail was to go to image gallery and send it from there. Jul 15 18:59:25 luke-jr: what's the problem with it? Jul 15 18:59:27 the mailer is borq... it fails to find new mail when on non WiFi Jul 15 18:59:32 Venemo: ... Jul 15 18:59:54 the only problem i find with modest is when you click an email in a folder Jul 15 19:00:01 it shows an error, other than that, nada Jul 15 19:00:09 luke-jr: I had some annoyances with IMAP, so I prefer POP3. Jul 15 19:00:15 IMAP just works Jul 15 19:00:22 I find it takes an ice age to sync .. Jul 15 19:00:29 But that's the same with the app manager .. Jul 15 19:00:29 luke-jr: really? well, POP3 works, too. Jul 15 19:00:34 no, it doesn't Jul 15 19:00:39 luke-jr: why not? :P Jul 15 19:00:47 POP3 doesn't have folders, etc Jul 15 19:00:51 it's designed for a single end-computer Jul 15 19:01:22 using POP3 from multiple computers is asking for problems Jul 15 19:01:24 it isn't meant for that Jul 15 19:01:26 D-Iivil: yeah, but I am talking about plain IMAP-related issues like taking MINUTES to open my INbox when the app loads. Server is fast, iPhone client is fast... N900 is unusable for me. Then there is the issue of sent message NOT being put in Sent folder on server like any SANE IMAP client can do... and so on.. N900 rocks... it's mail client not so much Jul 15 19:01:58 mtnbkr, everybodies mail use case is different Jul 15 19:02:08 some folks happily rummage through their mail on the go Jul 15 19:02:42 lcuk: exactly, that is why I said "IMHO" :) Jul 15 19:02:52 others, like yourself have issues - if you have skills to debug and identify sticking points, the source is open it would be great to cure them for others Jul 15 19:02:59 luke-jr: I prefer to keep a copy of my messages on the server and use them with POP3 Jul 15 19:03:15 Venemo: that's not what POP3 is designed for Jul 15 19:03:16 luke-jr: this is the simplest to set up Jul 15 19:03:28 if you go against the design, don't complain when things don't work right Jul 15 19:03:55 POP3 is a Post Office Protocol; you pick mail up and that's all Jul 15 19:04:06 IMAP is a remote mailbox access protocol Jul 15 19:04:40 luke-jr: well, I had problems with IMAP in the past Jul 15 19:04:50 mtnbkr: yeah, I agree. I gave up using mail client @ N900 and moved using just gmail via Opera. Jul 15 19:05:51 D-Iivil: hehe and I gave up and now use the web interface to my Zimbra server on my N900 Jul 15 19:05:54 luke-jr: and I also heard that IMAP support on the N900 is not good, so I didn't bother Jul 15 19:06:42 mtnbkr: good thing about gmail is that it supports multiple mail accounts easily wrapped in one interface. Jul 15 19:07:09 mtnbkr: I just wish I could add more accounts. There's a limit with Gmail which was like six accounts or so... Jul 15 19:07:40 Stskeeps, ping Jul 15 19:08:12 slonopotamus: are you ok if I merge the n8x0 and n900 overlays at some point? Jul 15 19:08:14 slonopotamus: pon Jul 15 19:08:14 g Jul 15 19:10:17 Stskeeps, can you try to build fb_text2screen master on meego? Jul 15 19:10:33 slonopotamus: url for master was? Jul 15 19:10:36 luke-jr, sure. you have n90 one? Jul 15 19:10:56 Stskeeps, git://slonopotamus.org/fb_text2screen Jul 15 19:11:01 luke-jr, *0 Jul 15 19:11:06 slonopotamus: got a gitweb? :P Jul 15 19:11:13 slonopotamus: yeah, just a profile and fremantle-sources for now Jul 15 19:11:24 Stskeeps, http://git.slonopotamus.org Jul 15 19:11:58 slonopotamus: will look into integrating it tomorrow, package maintainer is on vacation so Jul 15 19:12:07 luke-jr, feel free to push to same overlay, we just can rename it to smth more suitable later Jul 15 19:12:16 slonopotamus: just asking in advance :) Jul 15 19:12:20 * Stskeeps decides to shut down for tonight Jul 15 19:12:34 slonopotamus: I'll keep them independent-but-compatible for now Jul 15 19:12:42 Stskeeps, i just want to know if it builds without patching :) Jul 15 19:12:56 Stskeeps, if yes, i'll roll out a tarball Jul 15 19:13:04 Stskeeps: wanna test my fremantle-sources patch for me? :P Jul 15 19:13:46 or tell me how to test drivers/dsp/bridge/dynload/cload.c ? Jul 15 19:14:39 * slonopotamus really likes the fact that more and more projects move to git Jul 15 19:14:54 * luke-jr tends to use git for new projects and bazaar for old Jul 15 19:15:52 slonopotamus: want to try my kernel? :P Jul 15 19:16:04 luke-jr, on n900? Jul 15 19:16:07 yeah Jul 15 19:16:19 luke-jr, what did you change? Jul 15 19:16:32 built with vanilla/Gentoo GCC 4.4 Jul 15 19:16:37 and enabled a bunch of options Jul 15 19:16:41 like iptables, IPv6, etc Jul 15 19:16:44 compiled-in ext2 Jul 15 19:17:02 the stuff needed for iotop Jul 15 19:17:08 bridge support Jul 15 19:17:15 PPP Jul 15 19:17:21 ACLs Jul 15 19:17:26 CIFS/Samba Jul 15 19:17:39 that's it I think Jul 15 19:18:00 nah, good night guys :) Jul 15 19:18:05 bye Jul 15 19:18:08 ... Jul 15 19:18:18 luke-jr, i doubt i need any of those :/ Jul 15 19:18:40 slonopotamus: the iptables stuff enables you to use SSH to proxy all outbound TCP traffic ;) Jul 15 19:18:41 Guys, is it worth installing the enhanced kernel that I see in the repos in the app manager. Jul 15 19:19:25 I see that it improves features and things, and adds support for other things, but does it have any bad effects? Jul 15 19:20:22 * slonopotamus turns sound off so luke-jr won't wake him up Jul 15 19:20:31 :( Jul 15 19:21:03 slonopotamus: could just set Away :p Jul 15 19:22:04 DocScrutinizer: to get to get nolo prompt you have to press key on a keyboard Jul 15 19:22:13 DocScrutinizer: i'm not sure which one yet Jul 15 19:22:30 DocScrutinizer: but it's key on keyboard that triggers it not data in rx queue Jul 15 19:23:41 * luke-jr looks forward to the day he can build a single kernel that boot both N810 and N900 :P Jul 15 19:23:55 not going to happen Jul 15 19:24:01 kernel is different Jul 15 19:24:08 hardware is different Jul 15 19:26:08 jacekowski: is going to happen Jul 15 19:26:19 x86 Linux can build a single kernel for any x86 PC Jul 15 19:26:33 Linux-OMAP is working toward allowing generic kernels too Jul 15 19:28:25 you can't Jul 15 19:28:38 if you would build one kernel that would run on every pc Jul 15 19:28:44 it would be huge binary blob Jul 15 19:28:52 modules, jacekowski Jul 15 19:28:53 or have shitloads modules Jul 15 19:29:04 every major distro except Gentoo does it Jul 15 19:29:05 both options are evil Jul 15 19:29:55 would be neat to hand-craft some bytecode that jumps based on architecture :D Jul 15 19:30:22 if executed as ARM, jumps to the ARM loader; if executed as x86, jumps to the x86 loader; if executed as MIPS, ... Jul 15 19:30:46 just two is fairly difficult when I tried tho Jul 15 19:31:19 slightly related to all this: is there any way I can prevent Maemo5 from modifying my kernel? :P Jul 15 19:32:25 sort of Jul 15 19:32:35 you can tell onenand to write protect that area Jul 15 19:32:40 egads Jul 15 19:33:05 that would break NOLO in case I screwed up tho :( Jul 15 19:33:07 just heard a rumour that Intel can't package Poulsbi drivers w/ meego........ :S Jul 15 19:33:30 wonder if that is only the netbook side of things or if it goes for the powervr chip in the N900 as well. Jul 15 19:33:39 * tybollt looks intesely at Stskeeps Jul 15 19:33:45 good Jul 15 19:35:23 I can't get enough of the N900 ! It just gets better and better haha Jul 15 19:36:24 technomike: until Nokia decides to EOL it Jul 15 19:36:45 but at least it shouldn't be as bad for N900 as it was for N810 Jul 15 19:36:48 EOL ? Jul 15 19:37:08 Hi, I just installed Maemo 5 in in ubuntu 10.04. Does Maemo 5 come with pre-installed browser ? I mean is there any web browser that I can download from application manager itself since I want to open HTML documents in it. Jul 15 19:37:22 technomike: End-Of-Life Jul 15 19:37:35 jason2: you mean you installed the SDK? Jul 15 19:37:41 jason2: Maemo only runs on Nokia devices Jul 15 19:37:56 yep. I instaled the sdk Jul 15 19:38:08 luke-jr - That won't be anytime soon though will it ;) Jul 15 19:38:25 technomike: nfc Jul 15 19:38:32 Nfc? Jul 15 19:38:35 technomike: no freaking clue Jul 15 19:38:39 Oh Jul 15 19:38:50 for N810, it was about a year before they released N900 Jul 15 19:38:55 They still support the N95 :D Jul 15 19:39:06 N95 is a phone Jul 15 19:39:09 Ohhhhhhhh Jul 15 19:39:23 luke-jr : yep, I installed the SDK. Jul 15 19:39:23 Keep forgetting, this falls into the internet tablet catagory Jul 15 19:39:43 technomike: and also classified as an experiment by Nokia Jul 15 19:39:57 jason2: SDK isn't the whole OS Jul 15 19:40:03 ~wtf nfc Jul 15 19:40:05 NFC: no fucking clue Jul 15 19:40:06 jason2: it's for development, not use Jul 15 19:40:10 .O Jul 15 19:40:16 luke-jr - It is? :o Jul 15 19:41:21 technomike: last I heard Jul 15 19:41:29 luke-jr: WTF? Ibought classified HW? >.-( Jul 15 19:41:35 haha Jul 15 19:41:48 DocScrutinizer: wrong definition Jul 15 19:41:53 s/classified/categorized Jul 15 19:42:10 although I'd say N900 is pretty classified hw... ;) Jul 15 19:42:17 they won't give the specs up after all Jul 15 19:42:42 What do you mean? The specs of N900 are available everywhere Jul 15 19:42:47 technomike: uh, no... Jul 15 19:43:05 whatever, I'm happy I got one spare now, just in case Nokia really eventually EOL's it Jul 15 19:43:11 What do you mean luke-jr Jul 15 19:43:24 technomike: schematics, hardware interfaces, etc Jul 15 19:44:14 luke-jr - Ahhhhhhhh, my mistake. I just thought you meant the standard tech hardware specs Jul 15 19:44:46 What are you reasons for it being an experiment though? :o Jul 15 19:44:50 *your Jul 15 19:44:50 nevertheless schem and SM-L1_2, 3_4 Jul 15 19:44:52 no, I don't mean a summary of the specs that is absolutely useless :P Jul 15 19:44:57 all evailable in nternet Jul 15 19:45:02 technomike: IIRC some Nokia employee said so Jul 15 19:45:03 available Jul 15 19:45:12 DocScrutinizer: non-leaked? Jul 15 19:45:16 luke-jr - Oh :o Never knew about that Jul 15 19:45:28 non official for all I can tell Jul 15 19:45:33 technomike: "600 MHz" for example means basically nothing Jul 15 19:45:59 it has no relation to 600 MHz of other devices Jul 15 19:46:01 Non official - however in principle they could have removed the link from the wiki if they'd chosen to. Jul 15 19:46:16 sure Jul 15 19:46:19 SpeedEvil: legal? Jul 15 19:46:26 hmm Jul 15 19:46:30 luke-jr - Well thats a good thing probably. They want to move away from symbian on their standard phones and use something similar to Maemo/MeeGo Jul 15 19:46:37 but it'd leak again. Every service center has that shit now Jul 15 19:46:38 luke-jr: actually, i opened my javascript application by installing Qt demo web browser on Maemo SDK. But I aim to port my application on this platform , so I want to assure that whenever some one clicks my application it "opens with" browser. And I am not sure if Qt web browser comes along with every Maemo device . Jul 15 19:46:39 I mean about the experment Jul 15 19:46:44 Nokia pays for the hardware hosting the wiki, right? can we argue that by leaving it alone, they approved the distribution? :P Jul 15 19:46:54 technomike: uh, no Jul 15 19:47:08 technomike: Nokia has made it perfectly clear that Symbian is their phone platform. Now and for the foreseen future. Jul 15 19:47:08 luke-jr - How come? Jul 15 19:47:19 Maemo/MeeGo is not supposed to be a phone platform. Jul 15 19:47:35 never has been, and apparently Nokia remains content with it being a tablet platform Jul 15 19:47:57 Ah yeah, but what I mean is, Symbian isn't that good, and I meant Maemo-LIKE. Maemo is more stable etc Jul 15 19:48:00 than symbian Jul 15 19:48:01 jason2: I suspect Qt should have an API to open a URI with the default browser, regardless of OS Jul 15 19:48:06 I upgraded to N900 from N97 Jul 15 19:48:11 and what an upgrade it was! Jul 15 19:48:16 heh Jul 15 19:48:16 luke-jr: I'm not sure who pays the tmo and wmo servers. maybe maemo.dev Jul 15 19:48:20 technomike: N900 is a computer. N97 is a phone. Jul 15 19:48:27 technomike: it's like moving from a boat to a shuttle Jul 15 19:48:29 luke-jr - True, but its more stable anyway Jul 15 19:48:33 they serve *slightly* different purposes Jul 15 19:48:38 Yep Jul 15 19:48:43 Stskeeps might know Jul 15 19:48:45 technomike: Symbian remains what Nokia will develop and use for phones. Jul 15 19:48:46 or X-Fade Jul 15 19:48:49 luke-jr: really not the same as a proper legal schematic release IMO. Jul 15 19:48:51 kerio: very different, IMO Jul 15 19:49:02 Good points guys. I am just saying, that even as a phone, the n900 is alot more stable than the N97 running symbian. Jul 15 19:49:13 If you see what I mean Jul 15 19:49:22 anybody tried sip with tls? Jul 15 19:49:27 do we know anybody in the UK who can flash wiped CMT? Jul 15 19:49:35 luke-jr: (phone platform) wrong. Meego is the N-series OS of the future Jul 15 19:50:20 DocScrutinizer: just repeating what Nokia has said :) Jul 15 19:50:32 DocScrutinizer, and N-series is... internet tablets! :) Jul 15 19:50:35 who? you or me? Jul 15 19:50:36 DocScrutinizer - Yeah, I heard that too, but with the release of Symbian 3 (or whatever the version N8 is running), I doubt it. Jul 15 19:50:42 DocScrutinizer: me Jul 15 19:50:52 slonopotamus: uhu, like N-95 or what? Jul 15 19:51:03 does N95 say "Nseries"? Jul 15 19:51:07 Yeah Jul 15 19:51:09 DocScrutinizer, it got N by mistake Jul 15 19:51:15 O.o Jul 15 19:51:22 maybe Nokia is discontinuing Nseries phones Jul 15 19:51:24 :) Jul 15 19:51:27 Nokia NSERIES on the back Jul 15 19:51:37 SpeedEvil, how's jrbme? :) Jul 15 19:51:59 yeah, SpeedEvil - how's jrbme :-P Jul 15 19:51:59 SpeedEvil: any reason jrbme can't be moved into Linux kernel? Jul 15 19:52:22 luke-jr - No way, the Nseries is the highest quality series of phones they produce Jul 15 19:52:33 or at least whatever part reads the battery remaining stuf Jul 15 19:52:33 luke-jr, jrbme currently has no code oublished. Jul 15 19:52:42 s/oub/pub/ Jul 15 19:52:42 slonopotamus meant: luke-jr, jrbme currently has no code published. Jul 15 19:52:44 slonopotamus: hence why I have to ask Jul 15 19:52:56 luke-jr: that's all script for now Jul 15 19:53:03 nothing for kernel anyway Jul 15 19:53:09 really not at all Jul 15 19:53:13 luke-jr, so yes, it can definitely be moved :P Jul 15 19:53:17 luke-jr: there are things that kernel isn't supposed to do Jul 15 19:53:40 jacekowski: but parts, it should Jul 15 19:53:53 thing is that more goes to kernel then less can be restarted easily Jul 15 19:53:54 jacekowski, hw management isn't the thing kernel shouldn't do Jul 15 19:53:57 luke-jr: definitely NOPE Jul 15 19:53:58 kernel needs to report battery info to userland properly :P Jul 15 19:54:19 jacekowski: rmmod && modprobe Jul 15 19:54:25 slonopotamus: bme is doing so much more Jul 15 19:54:31 luke-jr: sort of Jul 15 19:54:33 luke-jr: but not Jul 15 19:54:34 split it Jul 15 19:54:37 (jr)bme always was NO kernel domain and the f*ck has to keep out of kernel for all forseeable future Jul 15 19:54:40 jacekowski, it does too much? Jul 15 19:54:51 luke-jr: Some parts make sense Jul 15 19:55:01 DocScrutinizer, show us the code! Jul 15 19:55:02 luke-jr: For example - it would make sense to have a battery charger module Jul 15 19:55:25 SpeedEvil: it would make very good sense to have a battery status module at least Jul 15 19:55:27 luke-jr: And it would make sense for there to be a charge meter module too Jul 15 19:55:37 so normal tools like KDE can read remaining time, etc Jul 15 19:55:38 SpeedEvil: so we can charge during boot Jul 15 19:55:41 :D Jul 15 19:55:45 luke-jr: report what? you get decent sysnodes to access bq24150 - maybe. in kernel. but that's NOT bme! Jul 15 19:55:46 kernel should interface hardware and provide interface for it to userland Jul 15 19:55:49 DocScrutinizer, and i'll show you libopencal :) Jul 15 19:56:11 slonopotamus: you have opencal? Jul 15 19:56:18 jacekowski, sure Jul 15 19:56:20 slonopotamus: working opencal? Jul 15 19:56:28 slonopotamus: with working checksum calculations? Jul 15 19:56:30 jacekowski, readonly, yep. Jul 15 19:56:32 lol Jul 15 19:56:39 SpeedEvil: you're asking for LKML bashing, are you? Jul 15 19:56:42 blah Jul 15 19:57:05 jacekowski, working checksums but broken entry placement on write Jul 15 19:57:06 slonopotamus: there is so much more Jul 15 19:57:22 slonopotamus: flags, writeone? Jul 15 19:57:24 writeonce? Jul 15 19:57:37 writeonce? Jul 15 19:57:43 yep Jul 15 19:57:48 cal has writeonce blocks Jul 15 19:57:53 that can't be updated Jul 15 19:58:00 and are stored somewhere else Jul 15 19:58:12 but i'm not sure about that Jul 15 19:58:16 ah, sure Jul 15 19:58:17 I have readonly writeonce I think Jul 15 19:58:25 wlan mac and friends Jul 15 19:58:37 well, let me check Jul 15 19:58:42 jacekowski, they're in separate area Jul 15 19:59:03 slonopotamus: speaking of which, we should get tablet-wireless init script reading that and setting it XD Jul 15 19:59:15 rather than forcing the user to set it in /etc/conf.d/net Jul 15 19:59:33 luke-jr, just a matter of changing wlan-cal path. Jul 15 19:59:45 uh, no? Jul 15 19:59:57 oh, I think I know what you mean... Jul 15 20:00:04 I meant have te script actually do it Jul 15 20:00:12 do what? Jul 15 20:00:13 ifconfig wlan0 hwaddr $(read-value wlan-mac) Jul 15 20:00:15 or such Jul 15 20:00:16 luke-jr - Is it worth installing the enhanced kernel Jul 15 20:00:20 technomike: nfc Jul 15 20:00:27 technomike: I build my own kernel now Jul 15 20:00:30 :o Jul 15 20:00:36 on my N900 Jul 15 20:00:37 ;p Jul 15 20:00:44 you just call (open-)wlan-cal and things are written to device Jul 15 20:00:52 slonopotamus: lame Jul 15 20:01:12 slonopotamus: UNIX philosophy! An app to read values, and the script calls ifconfig/ip with it! Jul 15 20:01:13 Issue with having it in-kernel is none of us knows how to write kernel code ;-) Though if bq24150 module provides access to the registers I guess that's fine too Jul 15 20:01:27 ShadowJK: I've done a bit Jul 15 20:01:31 DocScrutinizer: what do you mean? Jul 15 20:01:32 ShadowJK: tell me what to do :P Jul 15 20:01:33 luke-jr, k, i can make it accept entry key and print entry value to stdout Jul 15 20:01:39 ShadowJK: another issue is we'll never get that upstream Jul 15 20:01:50 DocScrutinizer, well, bq27200 already exists upstream Jul 15 20:01:52 SpeedEvil: ^^^ that Jul 15 20:01:54 half-finished Jul 15 20:01:59 luke-jr, already have a function for that, just no command line flag Jul 15 20:02:11 bq27200 half-finished module is upstream. Finishing it and polishing it wouldn't be a huge task Jul 15 20:02:17 ShadowJK: I mean a kernel-bme, not bqXXXX-sysfs nodes Jul 15 20:02:23 ah Jul 15 20:02:28 won't make it upstream Jul 15 20:02:29 no - kernel BME would be mostly insane Jul 15 20:02:34 And various chargers also exist upstream... The thing that would be hard to push upstream in a sensible manner would be the bits that tie it all together into a working combination Jul 15 20:02:35 slonopotamus: locking of writeonce user blocks? Jul 15 20:02:36 slonopotamus: I already did that! Jul 15 20:02:36 slonopotamus: also, some keys have multiple values Jul 15 20:02:37 :D Jul 15 20:02:43 http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/n8x0_cfgread.c Jul 15 20:03:09 you need to hook usb, and talk to the usb driver from a "power management" module that talks to the charger module and battery gauge module, among other things... Jul 15 20:03:13 luke-jr, there are not 'multiple values' Jul 15 20:03:15 slonopotamus: mine predates your lib :) Jul 15 20:03:23 luke-jr, that's versioning Jul 15 20:03:25 ShadowJK: chargers in kernel are hw chargers, that's exactly what bq24150 sysnodes will do Jul 15 20:04:02 I don't know if there's a standard way to export battery charge level from kernel.. I thought they invented devicekit-something for that :) Jul 15 20:04:08 (and no, acpi isn't standard) Jul 15 20:04:11 ShadowJK: USB in kernel, layering hell Jul 15 20:04:22 putting all BME in kernel is like putting a soft WLAN implementation in kernel Jul 15 20:04:29 it's doable, but probably would require a dedicated team Jul 15 20:04:43 jacekowski, i (and libcal) just don't write to that special area and i forbid overrides of entries from there with entries in main area Jul 15 20:04:49 luke-jr, it's just the spaghetti-like tentacles needed to tie it together :) Jul 15 20:05:00 ShadowJK: yep Jul 15 20:05:08 layering violations all ver the place Jul 15 20:05:13 On PCs you've got SMM, which is arguably nastier.. :) Jul 15 20:05:16 ShadowJK: there is a power-supply API Jul 15 20:05:54 * DocScrutinizer likes to mention he's a notorious foe of too much layering Jul 15 20:06:27 And regulator API, into which bq24150 also fits Jul 15 20:06:34 (I'd think) Jul 15 20:06:56 on FR we need regulators to start even CPU, we need CPU to start I2C, and we need I2C to control regulators - muhahaha Jul 15 20:07:08 well, all drivers for devices - just drivers Jul 15 20:07:24 + separate module to talk to all of them Jul 15 20:07:37 that could be unloaded if userland daemon starts or something Jul 15 20:08:09 If I ever find spare time I'm going to make a userspace daemon, then whoever wants can steal bits of it into kernel :P Jul 15 20:08:22 jacekowski: layering layering layering, whos father who's child Jul 15 20:08:59 well, something sort of close to cpufrequency scaling Jul 15 20:09:01 who's afraid of the big bad layer Jul 15 20:09:22 get layed Jul 15 20:09:45 besides, there is a lot of different certificates in nolo Jul 15 20:10:08 including ones that look like certs that are used to sign cmt firmware Jul 15 20:10:13 if my vote mattered, and it doesn't, i'd vote for battery control in the kernel Jul 15 20:10:13 or at least setting up some kind of interface there Jul 15 20:10:13 like laptops do Jul 15 20:10:34 laptops don't need it Jul 15 20:10:44 they don't have charge control in kernel Jul 15 20:10:49 I think a set of nice sane sysnodes for bq24150 will do quite conveniently. Everything else is a shellscript 5 liner then, for mere charging Jul 15 20:10:50 well, acpi like thing Jul 15 20:11:16 i think i can make a driver for bq24150 Jul 15 20:11:32 for remaining_time and simlar shit, we need a hal_addon_jrbem Jul 15 20:11:44 i mean it could be copyright violation Jul 15 20:12:05 huh Jul 15 20:12:07 jacekowski: yeah, don't violate my (C), sucjer! Jul 15 20:12:18 Why would it be copyright violation? Jul 15 20:12:32 ShadowJK: "based on RE" Jul 15 20:12:35 ffs Jul 15 20:12:41 ShadowJK: since i reversed quite a bit of a code of bme Jul 15 20:12:51 Just use the datasheet Jul 15 20:12:59 jacekowski: for bq24150 sysnodes?? forgetit Jul 15 20:13:13 i still don't get what's so hard about charging a damn battery Jul 15 20:13:23 kerio: NUTTIN Jul 15 20:13:28 kerio: do you want to lose your testicles in an explosion? Jul 15 20:13:45 jacekowski: no, but i never lost a testicle in a decade of using cellphones Jul 15 20:13:45 jacekowski: stop that FUD! Jul 15 20:13:58 AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE FANCY USERLAND DAEMONS Jul 15 20:14:02 actually, they had no userland Jul 15 20:14:03 doesn't the battery handle overcharging internally? Jul 15 20:14:06 bq24150 won't let you do that Jul 15 20:14:09 Wolfie, No. Jul 15 20:14:12 ok Jul 15 20:14:29 Does the n900 have support for opengles in libsdl yet? Jul 15 20:14:39 kerio, you have a phone with 'ps' or 'top'? Jul 15 20:14:40 libsdl1.3* Jul 15 20:14:58 slonopotamus: well, the n900 Jul 15 20:14:58 :P Jul 15 20:15:00 ShadowJK: you actually disassembled a bl-5j? do you know it has no safety chip? Jul 15 20:15:03 kerio, how you know there are no charging daemons? Jul 15 20:15:38 ShadowJK: e.g GTA02 battery cuts out on 4V300 or the like Jul 15 20:15:56 The default settings that bq24150 boot up with charge the battery to 40% or so. You can program it to 100% for our battery, but it can also be programmed to overcharge. This would drastically shorten the life of the battery. The amount of overcharging it can do, however, is within the range for which the batteyry has been tested to endure without "deformation or flame" :P Jul 15 20:16:03 i just assumed that li-ions should have a safety chip, just so that no would get darwin'd while playing with them Jul 15 20:16:16 DocScrutinizer, I already accidentally charged one of my N900 batteries higher than that ;-) Jul 15 20:16:32 "no one would" Jul 15 20:16:47 ShadowJK: so it had higher voltage when unconnected? Jul 15 20:17:02 ShadowJK: it took charge on 4V5? Jul 15 20:17:03 Wolfie: how are we going to clear up the gene pool then? Jul 15 20:17:17 DocScrutinizer, it was near 4.4 when I discovered it Jul 15 20:17:20 kerio: i think there are other ways Jul 15 20:17:56 ShadowJK: I had to check back with old specs I don't clearly remember, but maybe cutout on gta02 bat was 4V45 Jul 15 20:18:04 dunno Jul 15 20:18:19 but it has a over/undercharge protector chip Jul 15 20:18:22 I doubt there's anything besides a thermal fuse in nokia batteries :) Jul 15 20:19:22 if Nokia would consider paying me 300/month, I could be bothered to buy and dissect a bl-5j. But just for fun, while reducing cost of meals... nah meh Jul 15 20:20:56 Nokia just come over with a decent(!!!) technical engineering spec for BL-5J. All we need for jrbme Jul 15 20:21:03 charging half Jul 15 20:21:15 Man Jul 15 20:21:26 DocScrutinizer, link? Jul 15 20:21:43 Theres no way I am paying £30 for a Nokia battery, when I can get a Nokia battery online for £5 Jul 15 20:21:43 oh Jul 15 20:21:44 "come" Jul 15 20:21:46 ShadowJK: they ought. not did Jul 15 20:21:47 not "came" :) Jul 15 20:22:04 Theres no way I would pay £30 for any battery Jul 15 20:22:18 Fake batteries even work fine Jul 15 20:22:28 But, I have 2 genuine Nokia batteries Jul 15 20:22:33 technomike: you get a 'nOKiA' battery online for 5 bucks, yeah Jul 15 20:22:41 haha Jul 15 20:23:02 Nah, believe it or not, I have honestly got a GENUINE Nokia battery on eBay for £5 Jul 15 20:23:12 I have it in my phone right now charging Jul 15 20:23:15 does it have hologram? Jul 15 20:23:18 Yeah Jul 15 20:23:19 define genuine Jul 15 20:23:29 the same hologram that was copied in 3 days? :) Jul 15 20:23:33 and have you checked the numbers from hologram? Jul 15 20:23:35 technomike: you can you tell when even Nokia themselves need to disassemble those to tell apart Jul 15 20:23:39 the hologram was faked in 3- damn ShadowJK Jul 15 20:24:20 how different is the bq24150 chip from the other members of the bq2xxxx stuff that has a driver in the kernel? Jul 15 20:24:23 s/you/how/ Jul 15 20:24:23 DocScrutinizer meant: technomike: how can you tell when even Nokia themselves need to disassemble those to tell apart Jul 15 20:24:30 ds3: very Jul 15 20:24:34 blah Jul 15 20:24:35 I wonder what went wrong with the scratch hologram to reveal serial number and enter serial number onto nokia website for verification (and subsequent attempts at verification would give negative result) scheme Jul 15 20:24:43 ds3: completely Jul 15 20:25:03 bq27200 is a completely different chip, even for the function of it Jul 15 20:25:07 The description on the ebay product page also said something like: Its genuine, because its been sent back with faulty contract phones. The batteries themselves are fine. Jul 15 20:25:51 ds3: though for sysnodes it's 101 Jul 15 20:26:17 Hmmm Jul 15 20:26:24 a chip, a I2C bus, a few 8bit or 16bit registers, to read and/or to write Jul 15 20:26:35 ds3: i'll make a module for bq2.whavercharger thing Jul 15 20:26:39 ehh Jul 15 20:26:50 i'll make charger module today or tomorrow Jul 15 20:26:58 there are drivers for the some bq2xxxx chips already Jul 15 20:27:06 maybe adapt instead? Jul 15 20:27:11 no Jul 15 20:27:18 these are different chips Jul 15 20:27:24 that have only name in common Jul 15 20:27:29 jacekowski: please! make a sysnode driver. just a simple sysnode driver, according to kernel standards for accessing hardware Jul 15 20:27:31 prehaps I should ask... how different is it? Jul 15 20:27:32 part of name Jul 15 20:27:38 DocScrutinizer: sure Jul 15 20:27:44 DocScrutinizer: you'll have it tomorrow Jul 15 20:28:01 needs just ~5 registers to access the chip Jul 15 20:28:14 ds3: like an apple and elephant differen Jul 15 20:28:18 t Jul 15 20:28:21 jacekowski: ok, you get a spec for the sysnodes tonight Jul 15 20:28:27 uh Jul 15 20:28:33 jacekowski: deal? Jul 15 20:28:46 24150 has no 16bit registers I think Jul 15 20:28:49 atleast none that matter Jul 15 20:28:56 yup Jul 15 20:28:58 apples and elephant are pretty similar Jul 15 20:29:06 deal Jul 15 20:29:11 But it does have a few registers that change their meaning depending on whether you write or read them :-) Jul 15 20:29:16 shame that there is no floating point math in kernel Jul 15 20:29:19 ShadowJK: actually no I2C chip has *real* 16bit regs Jul 15 20:29:24 i would use it just for sake of using it Jul 15 20:29:59 ShadowJK: a few bits, yeah Jul 15 20:30:02 The kernel people say all processing should take place in userspace :-) Jul 15 20:30:04 and rightly so Jul 15 20:30:40 processing? Jul 15 20:30:44 jacekowski: that's exctly the reason why we won't get any kernel charger shit upstream Jul 15 20:30:56 it can be substituted by a 5 line shell script Jul 15 20:31:00 jacekowski: ShadowJK ^^^ Jul 15 20:31:20 My current charge script is about 6 lines, not counting comments, and that includes hardware access ;p Jul 15 20:31:21 DocScrutinizer: well, drivers - yes Jul 15 20:31:45 DocScrutinizer: and then we can have pluggable interface for controlling stuff Jul 15 20:32:04 ShadowJK: probably based on the original draft then? Jul 15 20:32:34 probably Jul 15 20:32:55 jacekowski: I'm starting to write the sysnode specs in 10 min. expect them in a few hours Jul 15 20:32:55 DocScrutinizer: what about watchdog Jul 15 20:33:12 DocScrutinizer: e-mail - jacekowski@jacekowski.org Jul 15 20:33:16 k Jul 15 20:33:34 btw. have you read what i said about nolo commandline Jul 15 20:33:42 that it triggers on keyboard Jul 15 20:33:57 i'm not sure on which one Jul 15 20:33:58 nope Jul 15 20:34:20 as i don't know anything about how it interfaces gaia yet Jul 15 20:34:41 but it's same piece of code that triggers flashing mode Jul 15 20:34:52 interface GAIA?? Jul 15 20:34:58 yeah Jul 15 20:35:04 keyboard is connected to gaia Jul 15 20:35:06 for what now? Jul 15 20:35:11 aah yes Jul 15 20:35:36 nolo touches pretty much everything Jul 15 20:36:13 it's 100k of thumb code Jul 15 20:36:14 so you mean we have to hold down Fn+K+L+! to get nto Nolo cmdlline menu? Jul 15 20:36:19 + 3 pictures Jul 15 20:36:25 nah Jul 15 20:36:27 just one key Jul 15 20:36:56 humm, that's 32? boots to find out? Jul 15 20:37:20 or some time spent on reading datasheet and reversing how does it interface gaia Jul 15 20:37:25 39 Jul 15 20:37:37 DocScrutinizer: wait, what Jul 15 20:38:25 kerio: what what? Jul 15 20:38:35 DocScrutinizer: there are couple pictures in nolo binary Jul 15 20:38:41 DocScrutinizer: and a lot of different keys/certs Jul 15 20:38:43 muhaha Jul 15 20:38:44 and as i said Jul 15 20:38:50 it's nolo doing flashing of cmt Jul 15 20:38:55 yep Jul 15 20:38:57 and it looks like nolo modifies that image Jul 15 20:38:57 nasty Jul 15 20:39:00 and signs it again Jul 15 20:39:04 so key is in nolo Jul 15 20:39:11 i'm not sure yet how to use it Jul 15 20:39:33 cmt? Jul 15 20:39:35 won't fly anyway Jul 15 20:39:39 modem Jul 15 20:39:47 and i've got no idea how to modify cmt firmware anyways Jul 15 20:39:58 jacekowski: you can't Jul 15 20:39:58 because it looks little bit like arm code Jul 15 20:40:07 it prolly is Jul 15 20:40:36 at least parts of it Jul 15 20:40:45 if i can modify nolo to don't verify orignal signature Jul 15 20:40:46 then for sure there's DSP code Jul 15 20:40:48 then i can Jul 15 20:41:02 jacekowski: you forget NOLO itself is signed Jul 15 20:41:20 well, i saw no evidence of that Jul 15 20:41:21 but if you can extract NOLO's signing code... Jul 15 20:41:32 and sign+flash from kernel Jul 15 20:41:34 or userland Jul 15 20:41:35 and cmt for sure using more certs than just the one in NOLO Jul 15 20:41:48 DocScrutinizer: there is lot of certs in nolo Jul 15 20:41:52 ape certificate Jul 15 20:41:54 papukeys Jul 15 20:41:58 and couple more Jul 15 20:42:17 jacekowski: maybe the one used to sign it originally? :P Jul 15 20:42:38 maybe Jul 15 20:42:45 i'll have to dump these certs Jul 15 20:43:33 and dump pictures that are in nolo Jul 15 20:44:16 certs are boring, pics are funny though. Bet one is 'NOKIA' and one is a USB pctogram Jul 15 20:44:45 well, these are 3 quite big pictures Jul 15 20:44:49 about the same size Jul 15 20:48:49 format of that picture is a problem Jul 15 20:49:25 this would be the NOKIA that's shown in some conditions? Jul 15 20:54:57 is there xrandr for maemo? Jul 15 20:55:00 n900 Jul 15 20:55:15 i've got no idea how these pics are stored Jul 15 20:55:38 and code displaying them is too big for static analysis Jul 15 20:55:47 DocScrutinizer: I just ssh -X myhost Jul 15 20:55:53 then xrandr -o normal Jul 15 20:55:56 lol Jul 15 20:55:56 bu that's silly Jul 15 20:56:07 I can make one easily :p Jul 15 20:56:16 there's at least 2 NOKIA pics? one for b&w no-backlight, and the bl blue-on-white one? Jul 15 20:56:22 all of them starts with 0xff, 0xff, 0x,ff Jul 15 20:56:24 unlike Maemo4, Gentoo bins tend to be be compatible with Maemo5 Jul 15 20:56:40 jacekowski: dump, and see if file recognises Jul 15 20:56:49 SpeedEvil: data Jul 15 20:57:00 even after i tried to skip couple bytes Jul 15 20:57:02 ah Jul 15 20:57:06 * tybollt read doc comment as "there are atleast 2 NOKIA bbw's" ;) Jul 15 20:57:12 pictt: DBase 3 data file with memo(s) (1766470821 records) Jul 15 20:57:28 that was that was the best result i've got Jul 15 20:57:37 :) Jul 15 20:57:48 3964 bytes Jul 15 20:57:51 file thinks *everything* Is DBate 3 Jul 15 20:57:51 ~wtf bbw Jul 15 20:57:53 Gee... I don't know what bbw means... Jul 15 20:57:53 DBase* Jul 15 20:58:16 DocScrutinizer: google-images Jul 15 20:58:54 DocScrutinizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Beautiful_Woman Jul 15 20:58:55 125 pictt: DOS executable (COM) Jul 15 20:58:55 129 pictt: MIPSEB MIPS-II ECOFF executable - version 231.82 Jul 15 20:58:55 135 pictt: apollo a88k COFF executable not stripped - version 23275 Jul 15 20:58:55 158 pictt: DOS executable (COM) Jul 15 20:59:08 1st number is amount of skipped bytes Jul 15 20:59:15 DocScrutinizer: pr0n-slang for "fat chick" Jul 15 20:59:42 tybollt: you seem to be quite oriented in that sort of terminology Jul 15 20:59:47 DocScrutinizer: mind it is late and I'm just being silly :) Jul 15 20:59:57 do you have fetish for fat chicks? Jul 15 21:00:05 certainly Jul 15 21:00:12 is there any app i can use to keep track of my spent money etc? Jul 15 21:00:18 yes Jul 15 21:00:24 yep Jul 15 21:00:25 I forget the name Jul 15 21:00:27 it's silly Jul 15 21:00:29 chadi: internet banking via microB Jul 15 21:00:30 ah Jul 15 21:00:30 check HAM Jul 15 21:00:31 siggy Jul 15 21:00:42 I think there is another, but I forget the name Jul 15 21:00:59 i've spent £11 at mcdonalds today Jul 15 21:01:03 does anyone know if it is possible to have the mail client only notify for emails that come into inbox, and not other folders? Jul 15 21:01:09 and that was my only meal today Jul 15 21:01:15 TMM: it does that by default here Jul 15 21:01:23 TMM: and I wouldn't know how to make it different, tbh Jul 15 21:01:50 I use the exchange plugin through z-push on a zarafa server (which works great btw) but it notifies for all mails now Jul 15 21:01:51 something that is not devel is preferable Jul 15 21:01:56 or even testing Jul 15 21:01:58 I've spent I think 1.50 on food today, for all meals. Jul 15 21:02:03 Cooking ++ Jul 15 21:02:07 and I really don't need to hear a sound whenever someone posts something to lkml :P Jul 15 21:02:09 jacekowski: so you ARE the fat chick? Jul 15 21:02:44 Actually - no - 2.00 - counting the fruit Jul 15 21:02:49 tybollt: nah, that's my only meal today Jul 15 21:02:59 and i pretty much don't eat at all during a weekend Jul 15 21:03:16 so is there a way to rotate 90, 180, 270, for an app? Jul 15 21:03:36 or does matchbox(?) just not support? Jul 15 21:03:53 DrGrov: you should take over here Jul 15 21:07:29 DocScrutinizer: take over where? Jul 15 21:07:54 DocScrutinizer: about what? Jul 15 21:08:02 regarding screen rotate Jul 15 21:08:09 Ah yes, sorry. I am bit lost at the moment. Jul 15 21:08:26 Had some strong eye drops inserted just a few minutes ago for my fucked up eyes. Jul 15 21:10:46 So, would it be possible to have a full rotating screen like DocScrutinizer said? Jul 15 21:11:01 I was wondering about this since it would be so nice to be able to use the phone in any kind of direction almost. Jul 15 21:13:22 xrandr --rotate left|right|inverted ? Jul 15 21:13:40 would it work? Jul 15 21:13:52 I hope it would work :D Jul 15 21:17:27 strange.. skype connects via umts, icq and irc doesnt.. Jul 15 21:17:35 web does not work too Jul 15 21:18:41 dns broken? Jul 15 21:19:57 Kegetys: seems so, but valid dns servers are in my resolve.conf Jul 15 21:20:24 s/resolve.conf/resolv.conf :) Jul 15 21:23:32 kahless: only 127.0.0.1 should be in resolv.conf Jul 15 21:23:53 luke-jr: just a second.. Jul 15 21:25:39 * kahless feels so stupid now Jul 15 21:26:03 luke-jr: thx a lot :) never thought about a loopback Jul 15 21:26:30 luke-jr: why? Jul 15 21:26:41 kerio: because Maemo5 runs its own DNS server Jul 15 21:26:51 so? Jul 15 21:27:26 ... Jul 15 21:28:42 It' not impossible that some stuff won't look at /etc/resolv.conf and is hardcoded to ask 127.0.0.1 Jul 15 21:30:19 it is said nokia messaging is going to be paid service Jul 15 21:30:37 It's some sort of revenue-sharing scheme with operators Jul 15 21:30:50 So in reality it's going to vary from country to country and operator to operator Jul 15 21:30:59 it is ok, but seems that it will be completely unavailable for customers who are using network operator that does not have agreement with nokia Jul 15 21:31:04 and it damn sucks Jul 15 21:31:17 i am willing to pay, but i do not want to be discriminated Jul 15 21:31:45 using sms as data transfer, without a special deal? Jul 15 21:31:50 hahaha, oh wow Jul 15 21:31:51 wtf is nokia messaging and wtf do we care? Jul 15 21:32:21 luke, do you have another push email that works for maemo? activesync is even worse Jul 15 21:32:33 luke-jr: im over sms for dumbphones Jul 15 21:32:33 well, not exactly dumbphones Jul 15 21:32:33 for phones between dumb and smart Jul 15 21:32:56 kerio: SMS was lame from the start Jul 15 21:34:47 sorry for dumbass question: how would I paste some sourcecode to wiki, so it won't lose indentation etc? Jul 15 21:35:14 is there some [plain] tag? Jul 15 21:35:39 Does Instinctiv from Ovi work for you guys? Jul 15 21:36:18 It starts but shutdown immediately.. :/ Jul 15 21:38:50 MohammadAG51: ping Jul 15 21:39:35 jacekowski: o.O (bq24150 module included in image) http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Mohammad7410/Ubuntu Jul 15 21:41:10 nevermind wiki Q Jul 15 21:41:33 I hope this is not too offtopic, but can anyone recommend a good case for N900? I had a CP-321, but I lost it, and it wasn't super great anyhow. Jul 15 21:44:36 i thought I read there was a key combo to make a screenshot. is that available without installing anything? Jul 15 21:44:44 pekuja: yeah, kinda lame Nokia didn't include cases with N900 like they did all the earlier ones Jul 15 21:44:47 pekuja: I'm using my N810's Jul 15 21:46:10 that's a very basic case, right? Jul 15 21:46:15 kinda like CP-321 Jul 15 21:46:41 one thing I'd really like is a case that allows access to the headphone jack Jul 15 21:47:22 and possibly the touchscreen Jul 15 21:47:25 i need ive been trying for days and cant get portrait mode on browser Jul 15 21:47:50 PaulyN900: I think you need to go into the options to enable it. then tuck the keyboard in and hold the phone vertically Jul 15 21:48:05 ctrl shift o wont work, i feel retarded Jul 15 21:48:21 lol thanks ill see brb Jul 15 21:49:14 SiggyF: ctrl + shift + p (but that doesnt work here Jul 15 21:49:17 ) Jul 15 21:50:19 ya hitting enable rotaion in browser dont work either Jul 15 21:50:24 soo lost Jul 15 21:50:40 nevermind i dont need it Jul 15 21:50:56 thanks im outie Jul 15 21:54:45 DocScrutinizer: 
Jul 15 21:54:53  thanks got some nice pictures now
Jul 15 21:54:55  yep
Jul 15 21:54:59  DocScrutinizer: i think if you start with --- it does it automaticaly
Jul 15 21:55:06  jacekowski: bq24150 module??
Jul 15 21:55:26  yeah, that's odd
Jul 15 21:55:32  nothing on google about it
Jul 15 21:55:45  just about and no hits
Jul 15 21:56:01 * DocScrutinizer summons MohammadAG51
Jul 15 21:56:42  *sigh*
Jul 15 21:56:54  will have an hour of TV and an icecream
Jul 15 21:56:55  he's never here when you need him
Jul 15 21:57:09  he was rare the whole day
Jul 15 21:57:19  well, make a spec anyways
Jul 15 21:57:36  and how do you plan to handle watchdog
Jul 15 21:57:42  automaticaly in kernel?
Jul 15 21:57:46  yep, mine won't be worse than whatever might be there
Jul 15 21:57:56  jacekowski: still pondering
Jul 15 21:58:15  basically why not
Jul 15 21:58:17  i think kernel should handle it
Jul 15 21:59:00  as the whole watchdog shit is just a protection against runaway progs writing to the I2C chrg_volt register etc
Jul 15 21:59:17  there's nothing that can 'run away' if not closely monitored
Jul 15 22:00:06  so a reasonably 'magic' value you have to write to critical synodes will be protection enough I'd say
Jul 15 22:00:59  then i would have to mod BME to use new driver
Jul 15 22:01:25  hi
Jul 15 22:01:44  nah, we'll define the operation of the driver in such a way it keeps backward compatibility
Jul 15 22:01:58  I need help to use autodisconnect
Jul 15 22:02:12  i.e if nobody touches it it won't interfere with direct access to I2C/bq24150
Jul 15 22:02:28  nah,
Jul 15 22:02:32  as soon as kernel driver claims i2c device
Jul 15 22:02:42  nothing else can touch it
Jul 15 22:02:51  nope, not true afaik
Jul 15 22:03:03  yep true
Jul 15 22:03:05  you can override that
Jul 15 22:03:08  try to talk to gaia
Jul 15 22:03:13  using i2cget/set
Jul 15 22:03:22  or fmtxc
Jul 15 22:03:23  gaia has register lock mechanisms
Jul 15 22:03:25  fmtx*
Jul 15 22:03:48  or lp5523
Jul 15 22:03:57  anyway it's a module, you can modprobe (-r) it any time
Jul 15 22:04:00  i had to unload lp5523 module to get access to temperature
Jul 15 22:04:07  it seems working but only if I disactivate all my IM account. I was thinking that it will work when I put my IM status offline
Jul 15 22:05:10  and i still had no response from natsemi in regards of datasheet
Jul 15 22:05:15  i'll have to call them
Jul 15 22:05:42  ""stop bme && modpobe bq24150""
Jul 15 22:06:27  jacekowski: took a weekend for me
Jul 15 22:06:49  but then, I had an 'official' addr/title
Jul 15 22:06:55  and you contacted them using that contact form on a website?
Jul 15 22:07:00  yep
Jul 15 22:07:19  well, i have an official title and address
Jul 15 22:07:29  ( i was using my work address for that purpose )
Jul 15 22:07:43  mhm, just keep calm
Jul 15 22:07:53  i hate waiting
Jul 15 22:07:57  :)
Jul 15 22:11:19  hm, so the only way to interface with the GPS is via liblocation?
Jul 15 22:11:32  yup
Jul 15 22:11:35  :/
Jul 15 22:11:37  afaik
Jul 15 22:11:58  I'm unsure whee liblocation gets its data
Jul 15 22:12:03  I was about to ask
Jul 15 22:12:08  and I suspect liblocation is closed?
Jul 15 22:12:12  yes
Jul 15 22:12:32  yuk yuk yuk
Jul 15 22:12:58  well, liblocation is next on my list
Jul 15 22:13:06  kinda scrubs porting an existing map tool
Jul 15 22:13:08  but i think agps will be a prblem
Jul 15 22:13:57  that's strange
Jul 15 22:14:07  FS-94 is connecting only to 3 serial pins
Jul 15 22:14:14  teaching gpsd about liblocation wouldn't be horribly hard
Jul 15 22:14:41  3G uses more power than WiFi right?
Jul 15 22:14:48  generally, yes
Jul 15 22:14:49  I mean on an active data connection
Jul 15 22:14:53  almost invariably
Jul 15 22:15:11  active 3G can use maybe 3* what active wifi can at peak
Jul 15 22:15:28  Stskeeps: do you have mj-174?
Jul 15 22:17:11  talking about 3g power usage, can I have my data connection on idle, without it affecting the battery life noticeably?
Jul 15 22:18:04  Good question
Jul 15 22:18:32  afaik, the iPhone has a permanently open data connection, and there's no option to turn it off
Jul 15 22:18:40  So SpeedEvil, for saving power, you'd suggest whenever possible to switch to WLAN? Is there an App that can do it automatically (list of known WLANs, check if available, kill 3G)?
Jul 15 22:18:57  so, i'm guessing they have managed to get the battery drainage to a minimum
Jul 15 22:18:58  peb - The N900 has that built in
Jul 15 22:19:16  blessn900? muhaha! nightmode of genuine maemo-pr1.2 cam shoots pictures like daylight where blessn900 got just pointilism abstract art
Jul 15 22:19:39  Technomike, thanks for the Info. I wasn't aware of that, I've then to check how to optimize that ..
Jul 15 22:20:04  optimize: I mean the usage of that ...
Jul 15 22:21:29  Data connection open and idle is pretty minimal power consumption
Jul 15 22:21:32  the hard part is in getting it idle
Jul 15 22:22:53  haha yeah
Jul 15 22:23:04  well, i'd imagine it checking the email every now and then doesn't take too much effort
Jul 15 22:23:14  Once you have an open data connection, SOMETHING seems to always be using it :P
Jul 15 22:23:14  isn't IMAP traffic pretty light
Jul 15 22:23:34  and, then there's the weather widget, ought to be light on its data too
Jul 15 22:23:56  as long as it doesn't shorten the life by 20% by merely being on, i'm considering it a non-issue
Jul 15 22:24:13  But anyway, why keep it idle (just curious), just connect when needed
Jul 15 22:24:23  is it for widget updates?
Jul 15 22:24:30  and EMAIL
Jul 15 22:24:33  technomike: *shrug* just out of academic interest
Jul 15 22:24:45  Yep, well good question
Jul 15 22:25:03  faster to leave it on in background and start surfing, instead of waiting for the connection to handshake for "ages" when you need to check one little thing
Jul 15 22:25:29  I don't know at all, but personally I think the connection uses more power when its on at all.
Jul 15 22:25:49  3G idle (really idle, means also no *inbound* pings etc) takes a mere 4mA allegedly
Jul 15 22:26:04  It's not as much about the amount of data transfered
Jul 15 22:26:40  a ping once every 2 seconds, doesn't matter if it's inbound or outbound, uses about as much power as streaming radio :P
Jul 15 22:26:43  besides, just being in 3G cell signal mode uses more power anyway.
Jul 15 22:26:44  a single byte though - in or out - will ramp it up to - say - 300mA for 30s
Jul 15 22:26:47  compared to 2G
Jul 15 22:26:51  (somewhat operator dependant)
Jul 15 22:26:53  ShadowJK: what, really? wow
Jul 15 22:27:06  Wolfie, as DocScrutinizer says
Jul 15 22:27:13  yeah, but 3g > 2g
Jul 15 22:27:14  ok, better leave it off, then... dang :/
Jul 15 22:27:19  technomike: I found I can only get service if I use 3G :/
Jul 15 22:27:19  better throughput, better lag
Jul 15 22:27:29  luke-jr - Shocking :o
Jul 15 22:27:47  I use the mode switch applet, and usually keep it on 2g and only switch to 3g if there's something particulary bandwidth intensive
Jul 15 22:27:51  technomike: also, nobody actually sells 3G service here
Jul 15 22:27:57  AT&T has 2G, but *nobody* sells 3G
Jul 15 22:28:00  my operator only has 3g
Jul 15 22:28:15  luke-jr - I am on Three UK, and even they have 2G when there is no 3G available in the area
Jul 15 22:28:31  oh well. off to sleep. the dog just came to get me
Jul 15 22:28:32  Yeah but do they have 2g where there's also 3g?
Jul 15 22:28:36  technomike: same here
Jul 15 22:28:38  three italy
Jul 15 22:28:46  ShadowJK - Yeah
Jul 15 22:28:52  but UK has always been big on 2G/GSM
Jul 15 22:29:00  umts only, gsm roaming
Jul 15 22:29:08  I get 3G everywhere I go practically in UK
Jul 15 22:29:18  of course, then there's N810
Jul 15 22:29:21  which only had 4G support
Jul 15 22:29:22  kerio - Yep! Thats it.
Jul 15 22:29:22  :p
Jul 15 22:29:29  anyway to stay on UMTS and tear down the packet data service, you need to enter a bogus APN, as there's no method I know of to switch down the 3G data connection and keep call connectivity
Jul 15 22:29:31  N810W at that
Jul 15 22:29:50  DocScrutinizer: huh?
Jul 15 22:29:51  :o
Jul 15 22:30:01  disable automatic connection?
Jul 15 22:30:04  Well you can just "Disconnect $OPERATOR" form the menu and you no longer have an IP address
Jul 15 22:30:08  Sorry, I didn't realise you guys meant that. My operator is 3G only, but it roams when in 2G area, but its still the same service in the end, just low data speeds.
Jul 15 22:30:18  Three UK
Jul 15 22:30:27  the clue is in the network name :P
Jul 15 22:30:33  technomike: my data plan doesn't work in gsm roaming :(
Jul 15 22:30:37  :o
Jul 15 22:30:39  ShadowJK: won't it auto-reconnect?
Jul 15 22:30:40  i have data, but i have to pay for it
Jul 15 22:30:47  so i'd rather not
Jul 15 22:30:48  N900 doesn't want to roam for me...
Jul 15 22:30:52  kerio - I have unlimited data on my plan
Jul 15 22:30:57  DocScrutinizer, you can disable autoconnection
Jul 15 22:30:59  this is technically not maemo related, but does someone have a recommendation on a N900 protective case that allows access to at least the jack, and ideally would allow calling?
Jul 15 22:31:01  it's in the settings
Jul 15 22:31:08  aah, ok. missed that
Jul 15 22:31:12  Of course, whenever something wants to use internet, the connection dialog pops up
Jul 15 22:31:27  yep, that's what I remember
Jul 15 22:31:41  luke-jr - I use the AutoDisconnect to be in 2G until I need 3G data, then when connection is inactive, switches back to 2G
Jul 15 22:31:46  DocScrutinizer: there's Offline Mode too
Jul 15 22:31:47  Works great
Jul 15 22:31:50  and saves power
Jul 15 22:31:59  luke-jr: offline mode means no calls aiui
Jul 15 22:32:04  yep
Jul 15 22:32:19  Offline mode basically turns the Cellular modem off
Jul 15 22:32:28  I forget if the tablet mode app retains calls, or of it's like offline mode except wifi and bt active
Jul 15 22:32:43  ShadowJK: it's tablet mode
Jul 15 22:32:46  cellmo down
Jul 15 22:32:52  wifi+bt up
Jul 15 22:32:58  yep
Jul 15 22:33:15  so basically my point stands
Jul 15 22:33:25  you know, the n900 may have a lot of flaws, but it's still a pretty kickass device
Jul 15 22:34:12  kerio: I must admit.
Jul 15 22:34:29  hmm, that AutoDisconnect sounds smart
Jul 15 22:34:43  does it work if there's almost never 2G?
Jul 15 22:34:50  probably not
Jul 15 22:35:01  eg, use 3G if 2G is unavailable, even if inactive?
Jul 15 22:35:21  never happens in Germany :-D
Jul 15 22:35:26  There's no sensible way to do "Use 2g but fallback to 3g if 2g is absent"
Jul 15 22:35:35  why not?
Jul 15 22:36:10  There's dual mode, but ultimately the operator decides what the device does
Jul 15 22:36:14  instead of using 3G, set Dual; never set 2G unless that's 3.5
Jul 15 22:36:30  huh?
Jul 15 22:36:55 * Arkenoi had never seen 3g-only networks
Jul 15 22:37:16  USA only - third world
Jul 15 22:37:24  It's pretty much built from the ground with the assumption that 3g without also 2g coverage "never" happens :)
Jul 15 22:37:44  DocScrutinizer: not even USA maybe
Jul 15 22:37:54  heh, i think my Dual mode prefers the 3g over the 2g because i can only connect to my home network in 3g
Jul 15 22:37:58  again, T-Mobile claims it has no service here
Jul 15 22:38:03  but i usually set it to 3g only anyway, particularly when i need data
Jul 15 22:38:04  I had to import a SIM from Kansas City
Jul 15 22:38:17  The assumption being once operators had 100% 2g coverage they'd start building 3g coverage.. and then in a few years they'll make a 3g/4g phone perhaps, that assumes 3g is always available :)
Jul 15 22:38:39  ShadowJK: hhahahahahahahahhahaa
Jul 15 22:38:55  Its awful having to switch to 2G to save power etc
Jul 15 22:39:09  I had some pretty poor 2g reception the other day, and the N900 was burning battery like made to push through IRC. :-)
Jul 15 22:39:15  Should be able to stay on 3G on all devices now
Jul 15 22:39:20  But then again, I was half an hour out at sea :P
Jul 15 22:39:24  My n900 never gets over gprs; I think my 15-year-old sim card doesn't support it.
Jul 15 22:39:33  (age probably exaggerated)
Jul 15 22:39:38  Battery technology needs to improve I guess
Jul 15 22:39:40  and a bit far from nearest floating cellphone operator byouy :-)
Jul 15 22:39:42  ...yeah
Jul 15 22:39:48  I don't think GSM existed 15 years ago
Jul 15 22:39:59  LOL
Jul 15 22:40:18  luke-jr: what??
Jul 15 22:40:24  wasn't that when my dad was using a bag-phone with new analog cellular tech?
Jul 15 22:40:38  technomike: we need to move from batteries to really, really thin wires
Jul 15 22:40:39  "The first GSM network was launched in 1991 by Radiolinja in Finland"
Jul 15 22:41:14  kerio: get things low-power enough and we can use batteries + solar
Jul 15 22:41:20  ShadowJK: that's Finland
Jul 15 22:41:29  I guess I bought my first cellphone, a Nokia 2110, around 15..18years ago
Jul 15 22:41:31  they have time travellers there, so it doesn't count
Jul 15 22:41:33  The 'phone the simcard came in was a nokia 5-series, which apparently means pre-2000.
Jul 15 22:41:52  "By the end of 1993, over a million subscribers were using GSM phone networks being operated by 70 carriers across 48 countries."
Jul 15 22:41:58  meh
Jul 15 22:42:13  maybe that was when the cell company was begging my dad to upgrade to a phone that supported more than analog...
Jul 15 22:42:13  ShadowJK: thanks
Jul 15 22:42:18  5110.
Jul 15 22:42:23 * Arkenoi bought my first cellphone 16 years ago and it was not gsm
Jul 15 22:42:25  luke-jr - Yeah, we should have solar panels in phones similar to what calculators have
Jul 15 22:43:04  I was 10 in 1995
Jul 15 22:43:05  :p
Jul 15 22:43:25  i was three
Jul 15 22:43:26  :o
Jul 15 22:43:43  ...
Jul 15 22:43:47  holy crap
Jul 15 22:43:51  are 1992 babies 18 now?
Jul 15 22:43:55  where did the time go? -.-
Jul 15 22:43:58  luke-jr, fair game eh
Jul 15 22:44:19  ShadowJK: I have no fair game :(
Jul 15 22:44:26  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5190 "Variants" section, first sentence, tee hee.
Jul 15 22:44:51  http://www.reghardware.com/2007/11/09/ft_nokia_1011/ "15 years ago: the first mass-produced GSM phone"
Jul 15 22:44:58  I was older in 1990 than you are today :-P
Jul 15 22:45:21  DocScrutinizer: sorry, i'll get off your lawn now
Jul 15 22:45:37  kerio: not you, luke-jr :-P
Jul 15 22:45:42  ouch
Jul 15 22:45:49  DocScrutinizer: wait, not kerio, but me?
Jul 15 22:45:53  how is that even remotely possible?
Jul 15 22:46:13  luke-jr: he rolled over the spacetime
Jul 15 22:46:28  does that mean it takes 15 years per 2 generations?
Jul 15 22:46:33  that's kinda slow
Jul 15 22:47:09  DocScrutinizer: i'm jounger than luke-jr btw
Jul 15 22:47:58 * luke-jr now has a 2-year-old in his head for kerio's persona
Jul 15 22:47:59  FWIW
Jul 15 22:48:20  luke-jr: that's not exactly far from the truth
Jul 15 22:48:23  kerio: yeah, I learned adding and substracting in scool without any electonic calculator, so I know when you both are born and ho old you are today
Jul 15 22:48:45  LOL
Jul 15 22:49:11  huh... it's not a merit, and i did too, so...
Jul 15 22:49:32  well, actually i learned how to add and subtract before going to school
Jul 15 22:49:32  I am trying to find more widgets for my N900 homescreens.
Jul 15 22:49:33  my bro taught add/subtract before I went to school :)
Jul 15 22:49:35  but that's not the point here
Jul 15 22:50:21  kerio: it is, you just don't knwo it
Jul 15 22:53:51  seems you misinterpreted the "not you" - it was just referring to whom the original statement was targeted, not at whom it's true or false
Jul 15 22:56:07  -A OUTPUT -o gprs+ -j TMOBILE
Jul 15 22:56:08  -A TMOBILE -p tcp -m multiport --dports 80,443,6667 -j REDIRECT --to-ports 1211
Jul 15 22:56:10  wee
Jul 15 22:56:38  so s/kerio: not you, luke-jr :-P/yes, you too kerio, but I meant luke-jr/
Jul 15 22:57:05  you are forwarding over gprs ? hah
Jul 15 22:57:11  ...
Jul 15 22:57:13  no
Jul 15 22:57:27  luke-jr: you are on acid?
Jul 15 22:57:38  I am taking any attempts to connect to ports 80,443,6667 over GPRS, and redirecting them to localhost:1211
Jul 15 22:58:00  localhost:1211 runs transocks which in turn tunnels the connection over SOCKS (over SSH)
Jul 15 22:58:04  uhm
Jul 15 22:58:23  good luck witht hat
Jul 15 22:58:27  T-Mobile blocks ports 80 and 443
Jul 15 22:58:31  and FreeNode has T-Mobile K-lined
Jul 15 22:58:41  uhm
Jul 15 22:58:48  i use freenode on my n900 all the time with tmob
Jul 15 22:58:54  Or, y'know, ssh to a screen session.
Jul 15 22:59:07  yeah. i usually just ssh to my shell box
Jul 15 22:59:08  heh
Jul 15 22:59:08  luke-jr: oh, it's not to use your free dns tunnel?
Jul 15 22:59:09  luke-jr: those suckers
Jul 15 22:59:30  FauxFaux: that doesn't work for 80,443
Jul 15 22:59:42  kerio: no, T-Mobile blocks DNS lookups of dashjr.org  :(
Jul 15 22:59:49  hahaha
Jul 15 22:59:51  er
Jul 15 22:59:53  er
Jul 15 22:59:55  i'm deeply sorry for you
Jul 15 22:59:56  Macer: luke-jr: prolly not t-mo but the NAT you're behind is klined
Jul 15 22:59:56  DocScrutinizer: they want me to use their "smart" proxy
Jul 15 23:00:09  DocScrutinizer: yeah, the T-Mobile NAT
Jul 15 23:00:31  how odd.. yeah i suppose it does use a smart phone proxy
Jul 15 23:00:38  yeah, and Macer has a different one
Jul 15 23:01:01  ofc
Jul 15 23:01:04  heh. that is odd
Jul 15 23:01:14  i've never run into weird issues like that luke-jr
Jul 15 23:01:18  quit spamming from your phone :-P
Jul 15 23:01:29  ain't me.
Jul 15 23:01:57  DocScrutinizer: want a native xrandr btw?
Jul 15 23:02:07  not me, DrGrov
Jul 15 23:02:07  it seems that the best way -for beginners- to learn and develop for the N900, that will work with both maemo and meego  is Python+QT . so any good starting resources to help me with that?
Jul 15 23:02:12  me too
Jul 15 23:02:26  smhar: nonsense, just use plain Qt
Jul 15 23:02:26  smhar: yes. ditch the maemo dev and just do meego
Jul 15 23:02:29  smhar: python tutorial, for starters
Jul 15 23:02:33  just if it really works, of course :-P
Jul 15 23:03:05  maemo is a "dead os"
Jul 15 23:03:34  Macer: that's BS
Jul 15 23:03:36  DocScrutinizer:
Jul 15 23:03:38  Nokia-N900:~# /media/gentoo/usr/bin/xrandr --output LCD --rotate left
Jul 15 23:03:39  /media/gentoo/usr/bin/xrandr: relocation error: /media/gentoo/usr/bin/xrandr: symbol __isoc99_sscanf, version GLIBC_2.7 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference
Jul 15 23:03:51  DocScrutinizer: that's not what i was told yesterday :)
Jul 15 23:04:03  luke-jr: yes, i would like a native xrandr
Jul 15 23:04:16  I do not care about which one is dead now. I have an N900 and I plan to use it for a long time, if maemo is what it will run it, I want to learn developing for it
Jul 15 23:04:16  DrGrov: might require a chroot :D
Jul 15 23:04:27  Macer: for any topic of 'learning to program' it is
Jul 15 23:04:53  DocScrutinizer: :) fair point. i'm just saying .. how many people are left developing for MS-DOS?
Jul 15 23:05:18  Macer: FreeDOS!
Jul 15 23:05:18 * DocScrutinizer sighs
Jul 15 23:05:19  i hear qbasic is going to take control of the industry... but i could be wrong :)
Jul 15 23:05:34  I have Visual Basic for DOS somewhere around here...
Jul 15 23:05:36  luke-jr: well. and i guess windows 3.1 would be wine?
Jul 15 23:05:54  how many MS-DOS programs will run on a contemporary platform, by merely recompiling them
Jul 15 23:06:18  DocScrutinizer: oh i'm sure a lot. but my point was that he will just waste time looking into the past
Jul 15 23:06:27  and really, that doesn't fit
Jul 15 23:06:29  luke-jr: oh damn, that is not too good then...
Jul 15 23:06:44  Macer: that's BS
Jul 15 23:06:54  i suppose you may be able to find a place that will hire an os/2 developer to work on ATMs
Jul 15 23:07:12  learning QT is learning QT, no matter if maemo, meego or even BuntKuh
Jul 15 23:07:14  but they are moving off os/2 and ecomstation
Jul 15 23:07:28  docscrutinizer, could we be serious here please :-) so what about my question? I downloaded diveintopython and it seems like a great book, but nothing specific to N900 and no gui stuff
Jul 15 23:07:31  or Windows or Mac or KDE
Jul 15 23:07:35  DocScrutinizer: that is also a fair point.. but....
Jul 15 23:07:37  or GNOME even
Jul 15 23:07:46  better to work on the os that won't be dead
Jul 15 23:07:47  smhar: Python sucks
Jul 15 23:07:49  and maemo is as dead as win-vista is for /
Jul 15 23:07:53  7
Jul 15 23:08:24  DocScrutinizer: 6 months and dropped? :) i'm sure there will be some people that will support it but far and few
Jul 15 23:08:31  just like maemo4 after the n900 came out
Jul 15 23:08:41  or after it was decided m5 wouldn't run on n8x0 hardware
Jul 15 23:09:03  so do you stay developing for something that won't be around anymore or try to work on something that will?
Jul 15 23:09:10  I gotta admit, now that I've seen M5, I don't think I'd put up with M4 :p
Jul 15 23:09:14  Macer: I'm feeling tired by answering your just-beneath-the-point statements
Jul 15 23:09:23  N810 is strictly Gentoo to me now
Jul 15 23:09:45  DocScrutinizer: well. most of them were statements :) only a couple of questions thrown in there. i'm just being honest
Jul 15 23:10:00  you're just wrong
Jul 15 23:10:11  that is a matter of interpretation
Jul 15 23:10:16  nope
Jul 15 23:10:24  meego is compatible to maemo
Jul 15 23:10:42  at least that's what was told to me
Jul 15 23:10:48  I still did not get an answer! and you guys are fighting over what??!!
Jul 15 23:11:12  just recompile and done. So how could maemo be 'dead' for learning purposes??
Jul 15 23:11:29  smhar: welcome to the wonderful world of free software
Jul 15 23:11:34  smhar: your answer is: learn python, learn QT
Jul 15 23:11:38  smhar: argue is all we REALLY do
Jul 15 23:11:39  <.<
Jul 15 23:11:44  I probably need to ask again tomorrow when people are calmer :-)
Jul 15 23:11:48  DocScrutinizer: or just learn Qt...
Jul 15 23:11:52  smhar: qt is qt ;)
Jul 15 23:11:56  smhar: Qt has very good docs
Jul 15 23:12:01  or used to
Jul 15 23:12:04  I hear Nokia screwed it up
Jul 15 23:12:06  smhar: what's your question exactly?
Jul 15 23:12:08  w/ some Javadoc nonsense
Jul 15 23:12:39  luke-jr: stop talking out of your ass :)
Jul 15 23:12:48  asj: keyword : I hear
Jul 15 23:12:59  as in, that's what some guy in another channel said earlier today
Jul 15 23:13:39  asj, good resources to learn developing for N900 now and the near future, (maemo+meego) , which I believe python and qt. so what good resources are there to help beginners .. begin ? :-)
Jul 15 23:13:49  luke-jr: as heard by a trusted random guy on irc, always the best quality sources
Jul 15 23:13:58  I never said I trusted him
Jul 15 23:14:14  smhar: why the obsession with Python?
Jul 15 23:14:17  just use Qt
Jul 15 23:14:44  http://qt.nokia.com/
Jul 15 23:15:01  smhar: well, just learn the language, you said you had a book, that's the right place to start
Jul 15 23:15:01  smhar: ^^^
Jul 15 23:15:43  smhar: once you have the basics of python down, then learn the python+qt bindings, which will give you a ui.  Though, I'm not sure how well they work on maemo since qt 4.6+maemo has some custom patches in it.
Jul 15 23:16:16  smhar: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4/
Jul 15 23:16:29  best intro imo
Jul 15 23:18:30  luke-jr, because I am doing it for fun, not pro, and I do not have much time to spend on learning a difficult language, so python seemed logical
Jul 15 23:18:34  http://wiki.maemo.org/What_can_we_realistically_expect
Jul 15 23:19:24  Shapeshifter, asj, docscrutinizer, thanks, I will do that
Jul 15 23:20:27  smhar: Python is more difficult than Qt
Jul 15 23:20:40  luke-jr: since when is Qt a language?
Jul 15 23:20:45  Shapeshifter: 4.0?
Jul 15 23:20:45  and why are the two even comparable.
Jul 15 23:20:51  qtscript you mean?
Jul 15 23:21:06  no
Jul 15 23:21:07  Qt
Jul 15 23:21:09  based on C++
Jul 15 23:21:17  and mostly compatible with
Jul 15 23:21:24  C++ is very, very difficult
Jul 15 23:21:32  but Qt is not
Jul 15 23:21:44  I don't see how Qt is a language.
Jul 15 23:21:44  you /might/ squeeze by without a proper understanding, but at some point you'll hit a brick wall with e.g. pointers, and it's downhill from there
Jul 15 23:21:51  Shapeshifter: the same way C++ is a language
Jul 15 23:21:56  it's C++
Jul 15 23:22:02  Shapeshifter: then C++ is C
Jul 15 23:22:04  C++ has no reason to be difficult, and if you have problems with pointers go back to grade school
Jul 15 23:22:05  no.
Jul 15 23:22:07  Qt = C++ with some MOC magic
Jul 15 23:22:22  Qt is to C++ what C++ is to C
Jul 15 23:22:24  asj: C++ has many reasons to be difficult
Jul 15 23:22:39  SpComb: it's only as difficult as you choose to make it
Jul 15 23:23:18  that's true, but it's inenvitable that you'll eventually run into something that isn't so fun
Jul 15 23:23:36  you run into something that isn't fun in any language
Jul 15 23:23:48  C++ has its own syntax (of which C is a subset) and standard library
Jul 15 23:23:58  Qt has its own syntax (of which C++ is a subset) and standard library
Jul 15 23:24:06  luke-jr: that's pure bull :)
Jul 15 23:24:27  quite, but it's more fun to criticize C++
Jul 15 23:24:29  Yes. C is not a subset of C++.
Jul 15 23:24:36  derf: the syntax is
Jul 15 23:24:44  my God, what have I started !!   :-)
Jul 15 23:24:44  luke-jr: the same argument could be made that any library with a #defines creates a new language.  The use of cpp does not constitute a new language.
Jul 15 23:24:56  Go compile something with struct foo { int class; };
Jul 15 23:25:00  asj: the use of moc does
Jul 15 23:25:15  smhar: mention java, emacs, vim and bunny slippers and you'll be done :)
Jul 15 23:25:16  or, in C++'s case, cfc or whatever it was
Jul 15 23:25:38  luke-jr: moc is only slightly different than cpp, it's a helper
Jul 15 23:25:41  smhar: don't listen to this maniac. <3 python <3
Jul 15 23:25:43  luke-jr: CFCs are banned worldwide, that's how bad they are!
Jul 15 23:25:44  angasule: i want to use emacs to write a vim clone in java called bunny slippers!
Jul 15 23:26:01  angasule, oh, I had a question about vim in mind but good that you told me this :-0
Jul 15 23:26:05  :-)
Jul 15 23:26:15  asj: then C++ is not a language either
Jul 15 23:26:28  luke-jr:  :)
Jul 15 23:26:33  'Afternoon
Jul 15 23:26:37  kerio: that probably exists, there is a variant of rule 34 which has emacs instead of pr0n
Jul 15 23:26:42  C++ was originally implemented with just a preprocessor like moc
Jul 15 23:26:47  heh
Jul 15 23:27:06  ok, i call rule 34 on emacs/vim slash
Jul 15 23:27:10  kerio: have you seen the embedded google maps in emacs?
Jul 15 23:27:25  luke-jr: unix also ran on a pdp-11, but that doesn't make an n900 a pdp-11 :)
Jul 15 23:27:37  asj: terrible logic
Jul 15 23:27:40  (ignoring the fact that linux isn't unix)
Jul 15 23:28:01  there is nothing C++ changes of C that Qt doesn't also change of C++
Jul 15 23:28:19  luke-jr: bzzt, try again
Jul 15 23:28:35  What are we arguing about?
Jul 15 23:28:39 * jaem_n900 wants to join
Jul 15 23:28:48  jaem_n900: asj is just claiming Qt isn't a language
Jul 15 23:28:49  "Is Qt a programming language"
Jul 15 23:28:52  jaem_n900: emacs is better than vi
Jul 15 23:28:54  jaem_n900: anything and everything, apparently
Jul 15 23:29:09  asj: but vim is better than emacs!
Jul 15 23:29:10  haha wtf M-x google-maps
Jul 15 23:29:16  is maemo dead
Jul 15 23:29:38  smhar, No!
Jul 15 23:29:53  Maemo is dead, but hasn't begun rotting yet
Jul 15 23:29:55  :P
Jul 15 23:29:58  luke-jr: Nah I don't see how Qt qualifies as a "language". It's a framework that uses C++  but you can hardly claim a framework that uses different languages is a new language.
Jul 15 23:29:59  it lives on
Jul 15 23:30:06  I mean that as additional flame to the arguments going on :-0
Jul 15 23:30:06  folks, why can't I run MS-DOS on the N900? I learned to program for it and I'm still able to write programs for the OS even sleeping ...
Jul 15 23:30:15  Shapeshifter: then C++ is merely a framework on top of C
Jul 15 23:30:18  its zombie children have infected meego
Jul 15 23:30:27  peb, you can
Jul 15 23:30:27  peb: dunno, works for me!
Jul 15 23:30:28  peb: the N900 has no disks, so it can't run dos ;)
Jul 15 23:30:37  peb, there is a dosbox emulator for N900
Jul 15 23:30:38  heck, even my N810 runs DOS fine
Jul 15 23:30:39  peb cause ms dos was never buolt for arm, and you can qemu
Jul 15 23:30:44  MohammadAG51: ???
Jul 15 23:30:51  ajs, the HP200lx also has no disk (everything in ram/rom), so it should be possible ....
Jul 15 23:30:55  peb: apt-get install dosbox
Jul 15 23:30:56  MohammadAG51: got dsme working like a charm in debian :)
Jul 15 23:31:07  MohammadAG51: no longer need watchdog packages
Jul 15 23:31:13  b-man, heh
Jul 15 23:31:39  MohammadAG51: i tried it in ubuntu
Jul 15 23:31:40  oh, you're righty
Jul 15 23:31:44  there is no DOS port to ARM
Jul 15 23:31:46  but i still had no luck
Jul 15 23:32:08  odd
Jul 15 23:32:23  b-man, i'll test it tomorrow
Jul 15 23:32:32  no charged batteries for tonight
Jul 15 23:32:33  luke-jr: let's ask them
Jul 15 23:32:33  kerio: I can't find it now, but someone did that in vim too
Jul 15 23:32:35  http://qt.nokia.com/products
Jul 15 23:32:39  let's see...
Jul 15 23:32:49  "Intuitive C++ class library"
Jul 15 23:32:51  Shapeshifter: no, Nokia are idiots :P
Jul 15 23:32:57  as were the Trolls
Jul 15 23:33:10  there's a link to "development tools"
Jul 15 23:33:11  or rather, they're too good at marketting
Jul 15 23:33:13  "An advanced C++ code editor"
Jul 15 23:33:14  mhhh
Jul 15 23:33:20  they know "innovative new language" won't sell like "C++ toolkit"
Jul 15 23:33:21  since when is C++ intuitive?
Jul 15 23:33:24  folks, thanks for the answers. I was making fun and feld transfered back to the time when we discussed why C is better than C++. The quesiton was, how to start programming for the N900. Summary seems to be: Python, QT.
Jul 15 23:33:25  let's go to "programming support"
Jul 15 23:33:35  "Qt provides an intuitive C++ class library with a rich set of application build blocks for C++ development"
Jul 15 23:33:41  luke-jr: i think the udev problem has to do with sysfs legacy support
Jul 15 23:33:45  Qt adds the following features to C++: stuff
Jul 15 23:33:45  now python, that's an intuitive language
Jul 15 23:33:46  Shapeshifter: it's all marketting :)
Jul 15 23:33:53  luke-jr: oh okay
Jul 15 23:33:56  you must know
Jul 15 23:33:56  luke-jr: in ubuntu
Jul 15 23:34:03  b-man: ...
Jul 15 23:34:14  msg peb <-- starts of and searches his old COBOL binaries, they shall run on the N900 ...
Jul 15 23:34:18  luke-jr: if everyone but you is an idiot, maybe.... ;)
Jul 15 23:34:33  what does C++ have that Qt does not?
Jul 15 23:34:58  two +s and a C
Jul 15 23:35:21  peb, doesnt gcc support cobol?
Jul 15 23:35:25  luke-jr: what does C have that glibc does not?
Jul 15 23:35:35  MohammadAG51, correct, but entirely unhelpful
Jul 15 23:35:36  You get two Internets and a demerit
Jul 15 23:35:38  asj: glibc is [part of] an implementation of C
Jul 15 23:35:43  luke-jr: well, according to your logic, a car is also a wheel
Jul 15 23:35:47  because it has wheels
Jul 15 23:35:50  luke-jr: it does not implement C
Jul 15 23:36:00  luke-jr: i think the watchdog problem had something to do udev which complains about sysfs legacy support in ubuntu (sorry for not being clear - trying to do two things at once atm ;P)
Jul 15 23:36:04  lol jaem_n900
Jul 15 23:36:57  actually that's probably slightly wrong, but anyways
Jul 15 23:36:59  Shapeshifter: uh no, that's YOUR logic
Jul 15 23:37:17  you're saying a car (Qt) is also a wheel (C++)
Jul 15 23:37:22  no
Jul 15 23:37:24  lame argument
Jul 15 23:37:26  that's what you say
Jul 15 23:37:28  lol
Jul 15 23:37:29  nope
Jul 15 23:37:29 * MohammadAG51 throws away popcorn
Jul 15 23:37:31  xD
Jul 15 23:37:32  anyhow, time for me to go
Jul 15 23:37:38 * kerio catches the popcorn
Jul 15 23:37:47  whew
Jul 15 23:38:04 * MohammadAG51 laughs at the acid spilling on kerio from it
Jul 15 23:38:10  LOL
Jul 15 23:38:15  i have acid resistance
Jul 15 23:38:29  so does internet explorer 6
Jul 15 23:38:46  my acid is acid resistance resistant
Jul 15 23:39:29  MohammadAG51: i also have acid resistance resistant acid resistance
Jul 15 23:39:47 * asj beats kerio 
Jul 15 23:39:57  but you didn't have that on kerio
Jul 15 23:40:44 * MohammadAG51 passes around non-free popcorn to everyone in #maemo
Jul 15 23:41:41 * lcuk puts a bag of open source popcorn into autobuilder :P
Jul 15 23:41:57 * kerio forks that popcorn
Jul 15 23:42:15 * MohammadAG51 sees the autobuilder choking on a kernel then segfaulting
Jul 15 23:42:55 * lcuk resubmits after bumping popcorn version
Jul 15 23:44:09  wtf? i built the last popcorn here and it worked
Jul 15 23:44:32  shut up, you died cause of acidified popcorn
Jul 15 23:44:43  hrmpf
Jul 15 23:45:01  man, the respawn times are looooong
Jul 15 23:45:04  you can make zombie/ghost sounds if you want
Jul 15 23:45:27  respawn is disabled in map: real life
Jul 15 23:46:01  gnite
Jul 15 23:58:33  Guys, what was that bug number for the failed call forwarding?
Jul 16 00:00:23 * wiretapped burns lcuk at the stake
Jul 16 00:01:13  wiretapped, isnt that comment meant to be on twitter in context :P
Jul 16 00:01:30 * lcuk bashes head at not getting mojo for submission
Jul 16 00:01:51  im sat here with half a spec
Jul 16 00:21:41  MohammadAG51: what's up with that bq24150 module in your buntkuh image??
Jul 16 01:02:24  Hadn't realised quite how hungry 3G was. Discharging in 4h or so plugged into USB. (streaming video)
Jul 16 01:05:15  SpeedEvil: between video decode, screen backlight and 3g...
Jul 16 01:05:47  naah - streaming over USB
Jul 16 01:06:16  ah, charging over usb too?
Jul 16 01:06:22  yes
Jul 16 01:06:30  damn
Jul 16 01:07:26  installing dbus-switchboard was a mistake, it ruined most useful associations and replaced it with useless ones.
Jul 16 01:12:40  SpeedEvil: yep, the figure of 3G = wlan * 3  is more like * 30
Jul 16 01:14:33  yes - I was meaning worstcase maxing each
Jul 16 01:15:04  Which of course for the same datarate, powersaved, wlan would not.
Jul 16 01:20:00 * luke-jr mutters
Jul 16 01:25:59 * peb is gone. Gone since Thu Jul 15 08:27:00 2010
Jul 16 01:26:45 * SpeedEvil is gone. Gone since Boomtime, the 51st day of Confusion in the YOLD 3176.
Jul 16 01:54:11  Bunin and lootin tonight
Jul 16 01:54:17  Bunin and lootin tonight
Jul 16 01:54:24  to survive
Jul 16 01:54:33  bunin all illusions tonight
Jul 16 01:54:34 * LiraNuna takes out the disco ball
Jul 16 01:54:56  I'm drunk let me be, :(
Jul 16 01:55:18  oh I see you're helping, sweet
Jul 16 01:55:23  \:D/
Jul 16 01:55:43  ya man
Jul 16 02:00:04  those are some pretty awesome machines they used to cap that oil leak :)
Jul 16 02:00:25  They were really disposable mexicans.
Jul 16 02:01:12  whales, dolphins, etc
Jul 16 02:01:17  mostly Mexicans
Jul 16 02:01:33  hahaha
Jul 16 02:01:49  you would think bp would have worked to train some dolphins
Jul 16 02:01:50  :)
Jul 16 02:02:01  dolphins are pretty smart. i bet they would have capped it in 10 minutes
Jul 16 02:02:12  and saved the lives of all the people on the rig
Jul 16 02:03:50  well. the ones that got blown overboard at least
Jul 16 02:04:05  Douglas Adams would agree
Jul 16 02:04:12  The problem is that where is the incentive for the dolphins.
Jul 16 02:04:16  They like fried food.
Jul 16 02:04:29  fried fish!
Jul 16 02:05:06  at least it's oily
Jul 16 02:05:26  :D
Jul 16 02:13:44  was that too uncouth
Jul 16 02:15:58  I for one welcome our new Dolphin overlords.
Jul 16 02:18:02  hmm, seems to have a bug with modest + nokia messaging when you have extra folder sync other the main inbox, clicking on the new mail notification always bring up a fail dialog saying the mail does not exist or something.
Jul 16 02:19:16  what an existential moment
Jul 16 02:27:37  is it me or is the application manager in pr 1.2 slow and does not sort things properly?
Jul 16 02:35:28  ColdFyre: install Fast Application Manager
Jul 16 02:43:05  asj: what is the package name of this app manager?
Jul 16 02:44:30  sobczyk: don't know off the top of my head
Jul 16 02:44:43  ah mn, fapman
Jul 16 02:45:12  it's slow on first load, but it's great after that
Jul 16 02:52:05  hmm, stupid question, in the n900 calender, there are categories/colors like N900 (blue) and Private (green). Where do I add new ones or edit them?
Jul 16 02:52:49  fapman
Jul 16 02:52:55  so many jokes could be made
Jul 16 02:53:31  And ahve been.
Jul 16 02:53:38  pigeon: calendar->settings->Edit Cal
Jul 16 02:53:39  ah, settings, edit calendar.
Jul 16 02:53:42  asj: thanks
Jul 16 02:53:50  i saw it first, it wasn't obvious what that was.
Jul 16 02:55:02  well you're king of the mountain you found it first, but your reign means nothing as you didn't understand the wealth you had discovered
Jul 16 02:57:21  ough I'm the show stopper, my apologies
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 16 02:59:56 2010