**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 20 02:59:56 2010 Jul 20 04:31:21 merh. Jul 20 05:01:29 Hi all Jul 20 05:05:18 I have re-compiled a new version of busybox (wish ash shell) including some addons for my N900. It works very well except for one thing....if I click on a deb file from the File Manager the HAM returns a filesize equal to 0, so I'm not able to install any deb package from the File Manager (I must use the shell with root priviledges or directly the HAM)! Is there someone who can help me with this issue? Jul 20 05:06:07 moo all Jul 20 05:06:35 ? Jul 20 05:08:34 nobody can help me ?!? Jul 20 05:14:09 can anyone see anything wrong with this OGL ES2 code? http://pastie.org/private/lfw5yhpkyvceuzgjln21lg Jul 20 05:14:13 I'm going insane Jul 20 05:14:29 Both of you? =) Jul 20 05:16:23 embedded, ask your question in the forum or be patient and wait to see if someone answers (or ask again later when more people are around). Like I said most people in #meego are in here. Jul 20 05:17:58 Termana: thanks for your suggestions Jul 20 05:21:31 ~ping Jul 20 05:21:32 ~pong Jul 20 05:25:28 ~seen X-Fade Jul 20 05:25:29 x-fade is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 35 messages. Is idling for 19h 41m 14s, last said: 'lcuk: pong'. Jul 20 05:27:09 anyone? Jul 20 05:35:10 * slonopotamus wonders why maemo sdk runs so damn slow inside virtualbox Jul 20 05:36:09 it runs faster outside of it? Jul 20 05:36:41 runs pretty fast here Jul 20 05:37:52 microlith: it runs _much_ slower than other linuxes in it. Jul 20 05:37:59 weird Jul 20 05:38:38 to be more specific, i'd say gui drawing is slow Jul 20 05:39:02 eats high % of "sys" cpu time Jul 20 06:13:21 slonopotamus, you mean the embedded X-server runs slowly? Jul 20 06:48:07 hey everyone, I just rsynced a lot of png files over to my N900. But somehow the disk space used on my N900 by those files is many times more than the original files on my pc. One dir takes up 1.7MB on my computer, but on my N900 it takes op 14MB. Any clues to why this is? It is nice to have 32Gb of storage, but if every file takes up 7 times it original size, there is not much use I have to that I end up with only 4GB available Jul 20 06:49:53 Does it have something to do with the filesystem, the way it is setup? And if so, is it possible to change the filesystem of /dev/mmcb1k0p1 without breaking stuff? Jul 20 06:49:53 filesystem? block size? Jul 20 06:50:27 the filesystem is probably tuned to work best on the SSD Jul 20 06:50:41 that might imply larger blocks than on a magnetic disk Jul 20 06:51:45 luke-jr: yeah, but that means that the cache of for instance maemo mapper takes up enormous amounts of diskspace. About 7 times of what is actually needed. Can I format the mmc drive for instance to another block size without breaking anything? Jul 20 06:51:59 ... Jul 20 06:52:09 fat32? :P Jul 20 06:52:11 Maemo Mapper requires enourmous amounts of diskspace period Jul 20 06:53:56 luke-jr: I just created my own osm tiles for the maemo mapper cache. The tiles need around 3GB on my pc, but on my N900, the same files take up about 25GB. That is not acceptable Jul 20 06:54:05 it is not maemo mapper that is at fault here, but the filesystem Jul 20 06:54:55 fat32 block size too big? Jul 20 06:56:24 Stskeeps: yeah probably. But then the question is, can I reformat my /home/user/MyDocs (/dev/mmcb1k0p1) with a smaller block size, without breaking stuff? It only contains some personal files and settings right? So I can just copy those files somewhere else, unmount the drive, reformat it, mount it again and copy the stuff back? Jul 20 06:56:44 SmokeyD: possibly, but no guarantees Jul 20 06:57:39 Stskeeps: actually, I could probably just attach the N900 through usb to my computer in mass storage mode and do everything from my pc, the formatting and copying and stuff Jul 20 07:08:32 smokeyd, an easy way out would be to have a loop-back image on the device Jul 20 07:08:39 smokeyd, it atleast wouldn't break anything Jul 20 07:09:01 flux: that is a smart move. Just create a container file with a different fs and use that. Good one Jul 20 07:09:05 thanks for the tip Jul 20 07:09:23 smokeyd, however, people have switched the filesystem of MyDocs. there are some issues but apparently they can be overcome. maybe the web knows. Jul 20 07:09:41 (one such issue was that the camera application didn't work unless you tweaked filesystem permissions) Jul 20 07:10:17 flux: I'll stick to the safe side and just make a loopback device with container file. It is only for my maemo mapper cache anyway, so I only need it for one dir. Jul 20 07:58:35 * cehteh has mydocs and mmc1 on ext4 Jul 20 08:06:39 Hi Everyone Jul 20 08:07:03 hi, any good hints where to start reading about deb packaging for N900? (yes, I tried google) Jul 20 08:07:17 sig^: maemo.org wiki Jul 20 08:08:49 Venemo: cool, thanks. http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging isn't bad. I've been looking at maemo wiki but apparently I missed some magic words like "packaging" >_> Jul 20 08:10:33 If I wanted to plug two N900s on a PC using usbnetworking, would there be any other way of dedicating usb0 to the first N900 and usb1 to the second N900, besides udev rules? Jul 20 08:15:15 sig^: you're welcome. Jul 20 08:15:28 Venemo: well I guess I read those things already... I'm wondering if there's an easy way to make a package so that I "just" give the control info and binaries and then I get an installable package, or something... Jul 20 08:15:33 sig^: if you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer... packaging apps is hard for everyone Jul 20 08:16:04 sig^: what SDK are you using? Jul 20 08:16:11 MiXu-: ifrename? that's not much better Jul 20 08:16:14 well, I have scratchbox Jul 20 08:16:25 sig^: dpkg-buildpackage is not enough for you? Jul 20 08:16:38 sig^, what kind of app are you making? gtk? qt? misc? script? etc etc? Jul 20 08:16:55 not quite sure (: I tested it, but it started to compile stuff... I just want my binary somewhere so that it's run from the icon Jul 20 08:17:17 I added the uuencoded icon to control and did the modifications suggested in http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing Jul 20 08:17:34 sig^: dpkg-buildpackage compiles your stuff, and then also makes the package Jul 20 08:17:55 oh, ok... well, I've already compiled the thing into an executable Jul 20 08:18:04 the packaging adds all the dependencies and makes sure your application has everything it needs on all machines you put it on - thats the aim of packaging, it cannot be shortcutted because if you do it wrong autobuilder will not make it for you Jul 20 08:18:19 makes sense Jul 20 08:18:23 and sig^ when you upload to autobuilder, it will be source only Jul 20 08:18:39 so the package has to know exactly how to build it ;) Jul 20 08:18:50 asj: Ok. I was thinking of something you could write in /etc/network/interfaces, but I suppose that's hoping too much. :) Jul 20 08:18:59 well, that's exactly the kind of functionality I'm not really looking for q: just the, you know, icon launches a binary -kind of Jul 20 08:19:11 author of fapman here? Jul 20 08:19:31 sig^, you need just that sort of functionality Jul 20 08:19:51 sig^: well, is has the functionality you need, plus some more Jul 20 08:19:54 the icon is added as one of the source files and copied to ummm /usr/share/icons/..... afaik Jul 20 08:20:03 oh I: well, thanks all, I'll... be right back bothering you more in a moment. Jul 20 08:20:07 then referenced within your .desktop file Jul 20 08:20:28 MiXu-: I don't know the specifics of usbnet, but I'm guessing the mac address is autogenerated (I assume there's a mac? it's emulating ethernet I thought) Jul 20 08:20:55 sig^: if you need a working example, you can checkout my little app Jul 20 08:21:16 MiXu-: basically it'll be a pain ;) Jul 20 08:23:04 Yeah. I've figured that much already :) Jul 20 08:25:32 MiXu-: why would you want to do such a thing? Jul 20 08:51:12 Venemo: Can't talk about that Jul 20 08:51:32 DocScrutinizer: the problem with key remapping is that using shift messes with some key combinations Jul 20 08:51:32 and that's probably why the standard symbols work with shift, too Jul 20 08:55:49 Morning, all Jul 20 08:56:06 Morning, Jaffa Jul 20 08:56:06 morn jaffa Jul 20 09:02:36 Alfanumericall Jul 20 09:03:33 Alphanumerical codes for wi-fi don't work on N900? Jul 20 09:04:10 hello, does fax modem present on n900? Jul 20 09:05:00 hello Jul 20 09:05:13 darmok and jalad at tanagra Jul 20 09:11:13 and you guys thought cloudgps is fast Jul 20 09:11:17 http://github.com/LiraNuna/n900-google-maps Jul 20 09:11:20 \:D/ Jul 20 09:11:39 yes it shows only one tile, but it's fast <3 Jul 20 09:11:41 LiraNuna: so what was the problem? Jul 20 09:11:49 jacekowski, god damn QPainter Jul 20 09:11:53 because it looks for me like it was opengl Jul 20 09:11:56 and that side Jul 20 09:12:02 as events were ok Jul 20 09:12:06 QPainter didn't actually used OGL Jul 20 09:12:35 it did some fucked up caching of images, and every 60th frame re-cached the whole display Jul 20 09:13:11 lesson: don't use QPainter with QGLWidget Jul 20 09:13:43 LiraNuna: is it ok with you for me to package it? Jul 20 09:13:56 it's not a usable application Jul 20 09:14:05 ah Jul 20 09:14:10 but when it is, sure Jul 20 09:14:22 I just got it to a state where it's FAST (tearing / vsync aside) Jul 20 09:14:34 hopefully it'll be meego ready Jul 20 09:15:59 LiraNuna, :) i started with a single pixel moving at required speed Jul 20 09:16:01 cloudgps is really slow compared to my code Jul 20 09:19:08 now that damn vsync WONTFIX bug makes my app look ugly Jul 20 09:20:02 number Jul 20 09:20:11 eh 5886 something Jul 20 09:20:11 hold on Jul 20 09:20:41 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5556 Jul 20 09:20:42 Bug 5556: when switching desktops, there is some tearing of the image Jul 20 09:21:41 eep bugs.maemo.org cert still not updated Jul 20 09:21:45 ~seen X-Fade Jul 20 09:21:46 yeah Jul 20 09:21:47 x-fade is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 35 messages. Is idling for 23h 37m 32s, last said: 'lcuk: pong'. Jul 20 09:26:17 * lcuk saw IAR working with 2 machines and smiled last night Jul 20 09:55:24 could anyone help me with regular expressions? Jul 20 09:56:17 Probably Jul 20 09:56:29 .* Jul 20 09:57:18 Venemo: I'm pretty good what's up? Jul 20 09:57:37 I would like to replace the value of a property in a CSS selector Jul 20 09:58:26 isn't there a CSS model wrapper class of some sort? Jul 20 09:58:27 this is the regex I'm using now to match the selector: font-family:[.^;]; Jul 20 09:58:44 obviously, it doesn't match anything Jul 20 09:59:11 try \w Jul 20 09:59:18 user__: where? Jul 20 10:00:00 font-family: (\w*); Jul 20 10:00:07 font-family:(.?*); Jul 20 10:00:44 font-family:\s?(.*?); Jul 20 10:00:52 I'd do like that Jul 20 10:01:07 \w is not good enough because there are fe. sans-serif Jul 20 10:01:20 Font family should be the name only, no? Jul 20 10:01:25 oh i see Jul 20 10:01:44 shouldn't there be a ^; too? Jul 20 10:01:50 I don't think the space is required tbh Jul 20 10:01:55 Venemo: why ^? Jul 20 10:02:32 because if I have eg. font-family: myfamily; color: red; then "font-family: myfamily; color: red" will also match the regex Jul 20 10:02:48 no Jul 20 10:02:50 neah Jul 20 10:02:54 it wont Jul 20 10:02:58 there's ? for that to be non-greedy Jul 20 10:03:03 stops on the first match Jul 20 10:03:10 Scelt: ah, okay Jul 20 10:03:11 so anything until the first ; Jul 20 10:03:40 Scelt: still no matches Jul 20 10:04:03 and using ^ inside the [] will make the search negative, so doing like this: font-family:\s?([^;]+); would work too Jul 20 10:04:50 Venemo: what language? what regexp? posix or perl? Jul 20 10:04:52 Scelt: the default format is this: font-family:'Nokia Sans'; Jul 20 10:04:58 ah Jul 20 10:05:02 Scelt: I'd like to use it in a Qt app :) Jul 20 10:05:03 still it should work Jul 20 10:05:09 python? Jul 20 10:05:20 c++ Jul 20 10:05:28 C++ Jul 20 10:05:30 dunno what regexp it uses Jul 20 10:06:49 Scelt: your last one is working :) Jul 20 10:07:10 scelt@shell:~$ perl -e '$a = "font-family:'\''Nokia Sans'\''\;"; $a =~ /font-family:\s?(.*?)\;/; print "$1\n";' Jul 20 10:07:13 'Nokia Sans' Jul 20 10:07:17 like that Jul 20 10:07:23 Venemo: okay good :) Jul 20 10:07:35 there are some differences in regexps. I'm the perl master Jul 20 10:13:20 Scelt: thanks for your help :) Jul 20 10:13:47 np :) Jul 20 10:29:49 hm, it seems that I need some more help Jul 20 10:30:01 my app runs in the background all the time (like a daemon) Jul 20 10:30:29 but obviously, I'd like to stop it before it is uninstalled Jul 20 10:30:51 so I put "killall sticky-notes" in the prerm script, but that throws an error if it is not running Jul 20 10:31:27 what should I put into the script if I'd like to do this without errors? Jul 20 10:32:34 if pidof stickynotes Jul 20 10:32:35 then Jul 20 10:32:41 kill whateverthatpidwas Jul 20 10:33:38 SpeedEvil: I don't know much about shell scripts, is that enough? Jul 20 10:33:44 yes Jul 20 10:33:53 but that's bogus syntax, as I'm not properly awake. Jul 20 10:34:06 I would be happy to write the shell script required for one billion dollars. Jul 20 10:34:30 is there going to be some launch of newer version of n900? Jul 20 10:34:54 h4xordood: nokia has not announced anything Jul 20 10:35:02 Personally, I find a n900+ unlikely Jul 20 10:35:08 Though it would be cool. Jul 20 10:35:21 Venemo, Try Jul 20 10:35:34 sticky=`pidof stickynotes` Jul 20 10:35:42 if $sticky; then Jul 20 10:35:48 kill $sticky Jul 20 10:35:50 fi Jul 20 10:36:01 some meego release Jul 20 10:36:07 If the app name really is called stickynotes Jul 20 10:36:34 h4xordood, What I know is Noikia have said they won't be supporting the N900 for any MeeGo release Jul 20 10:36:46 But they are using the N900 to test MeeGo pre-releases Jul 20 10:37:02 dneary: it is "sticky-notes", but I can replace it... thanks for your script Jul 20 10:37:10 So basically, adventurous spirits will be able to run MeeGo on the N900, potentially without some key features Jul 20 10:37:16 Venemo, np Jul 20 10:37:23 hm so meego device will be other than nokia Jul 20 10:37:27 You can replace `..` with $(..) Jul 20 10:37:38 dneary: also, two questions: what is "fi", and why kill instead of killall? Jul 20 10:37:42 h4xordood: nokia may be releasing meego devices Jul 20 10:37:48 h4xordood, No, the first MeeGo phone will be a Nokia phone, but it will not be the N900 Jul 20 10:37:54 h4xordood: just not n900 Jul 20 10:38:05 h4xordood: it will probably arrive around the end of the year, but it isn't announced yet Jul 20 10:38:16 hm then i should wait to buy that Jul 20 10:38:18 Personally, I would like to seen n900+ with a few hardware mods Jul 20 10:38:26 Venemo, killall is a dangerous command that will kill all applications matching a given string on Linux, and will kill all userspace processes on Solaris, for example Jul 20 10:38:30 Never use it :) Jul 20 10:38:31 But I find that unlikely Jul 20 10:38:43 Venemo, fi is the closing bracket for if Jul 20 10:38:47 dneary: okay Jul 20 10:38:51 end of year would be too late Jul 20 10:38:57 And the above shell script can also kill arbitrary processes. Jul 20 10:39:00 if ... ; then...; else...; fi; Jul 20 10:39:08 dneary: okay, thanks Jul 20 10:39:21 while ...; do...; done Jul 20 10:39:27 may be i buy n900 today and meego device at the end of year Jul 20 10:39:27 If the sticky notes binary dies immediately after the pidof, and something else starts. Jul 20 10:39:44 And the other loop in shell scripts that has a funny closing bracket is case Jul 20 10:40:06 ok thanks alot :) Jul 20 10:40:31 read the bash manual several times fo the syntax Jul 20 10:41:03 case word in Jul 20 10:41:08 word) Jul 20 10:41:18 stuff... Jul 20 10:41:19 ;; Jul 20 10:41:22 word2) Jul 20 10:41:25 stuff... Jul 20 10:41:27 ;; Jul 20 10:41:34 *) Jul 20 10:41:38 stuff... Jul 20 10:41:40 okay, let's just assume that mine is the only app with the name "sticky-notes" Jul 20 10:41:43 ;; Jul 20 10:41:46 esac Jul 20 10:41:54 there may be more than one processes of it running at a time Jul 20 10:42:06 would this script work? Jul 20 10:42:08 echo "Killing Sticky Notes if it is running" Jul 20 10:42:09 if pidof sticky-notes; then Jul 20 10:42:09 killall sticky-notes Jul 20 10:42:09 fi Jul 20 10:42:16 yes Jul 20 10:42:21 withthe silly quotes Jul 20 10:42:33 what qoutes and where? Jul 20 10:42:43 echo `ls` Jul 20 10:42:53 the ls between the backquotes is run. Jul 20 10:43:09 Its output is put into the command line to be executed Jul 20 10:43:15 strange, the echo is working with the standard quotes Jul 20 10:43:20 "Any sufficiently advanced music is indistinguishable from MIDI" Jul 20 10:43:25 * RST38h laughs diabolically Jul 20 10:43:40 echo `ls` and echo ls Jul 20 10:43:46 do very different things Jul 20 10:43:53 SpeedEvil: is the one below correct? Jul 20 10:43:54 echo `Killing Sticky Notes if it is running` Jul 20 10:43:54 if pidof sticky-notes; then Jul 20 10:43:54 killall sticky-notes Jul 20 10:43:54 fi Jul 20 10:43:57 (unless you're in a directory wit a file called ls of course Jul 20 10:44:07 no Jul 20 10:44:09 err Jul 20 10:44:12 ??? Jul 20 10:44:17 actually Jul 20 10:44:49 the pidof manpage does not say anything about return value Jul 20 10:45:05 so that might or might not work depending on your implementation Jul 20 10:45:15 or rather the busybox implementation Jul 20 10:45:34 so venemo me being KDE C++ developer would you tell me to buy n900 or not Jul 20 10:46:12 h4xordood: well, that is a hard question... some crazy people actually managed to run KDE on the N900 Jul 20 10:46:15 ? Jul 20 10:46:15 :) Jul 20 10:46:28 h4xordood: so if you enjoy hacking and the stuff, you will enjoy it Jul 20 10:46:48 Speaking as someone who has run linux for a decade, my only problem with the n900 is the stingy bastards only put in one stylus. Jul 20 10:46:54 h4xordood: but for some people, it may not be suited... at least there are always a bunch of whiners on the forum Jul 20 10:46:55 (owned for 6 months) Jul 20 10:47:07 anyone here ever played much with audio recording on the n900? specifically i'm curious if anyone knows much about the mic gain on it, and issues with clipping Jul 20 10:47:53 SpeedEvil: back to the script, could you please tell me what is the mistake in the one I wrote? Jul 20 10:48:05 i want to run plasma applets Jul 20 10:48:17 and yeah i enjoy hacking :) Jul 20 10:48:45 h4xordood: I'm not sure if it is possible... I myself haven't tried it yet. I like the Hildon-desktop on it Jul 20 10:48:46 Venemo: that depends on the return value of pidof reflecting if it found a running process with the name or not. Jul 20 10:49:05 Venemo: I am unsure if the pidof actually does that Jul 20 10:49:54 may be then i should do more research then Jul 20 10:50:37 SpeedEvil: okay, then what is your recommended solution? Jul 20 10:50:52 h4xordood: read some stuff on talk.maemo.org Jul 20 10:51:09 h4xordood: and also a few reviews. Jul 20 10:52:02 venemo thanks :) Jul 20 10:52:04 h4xordood: there are people who are not content with the telephony features, and also some who find the available GPS apps poor. Jul 20 10:52:42 h4xordood: still, I have no problems with the stuff... I even learned Qt development on it Jul 20 10:53:34 hm yeah we are not end user completly so we can hack some stuff :) Jul 20 10:55:13 Venemo: what's the problem with killall just erroring? Jul 20 10:55:45 SpeedEvil: because then dpkg thinks that there is some error and wouldn't let the app uninstall Jul 20 10:56:57 SpeedEvil: how ridiculous is that when you can only uninstall an app if it is running? Jul 20 10:57:06 sticky=`pidof sticky-notes` Jul 20 10:57:12 if $sticky; then Jul 20 10:57:17 killall sticky-notes Jul 20 10:57:17 fi Jul 20 10:57:22 should work, practically Jul 20 10:57:35 okay Jul 20 10:57:37 thanks :) Jul 20 10:57:48 what is the current price of n900 i live in india so just need to know :) Jul 20 10:58:45 Don't know about india, sorry. Jul 20 10:59:24 i mean in your country Jul 20 10:59:41 I think it went down to 449 pounds in the Uk Jul 20 10:59:56 It is however now at 479 (nokia.co.uk) Jul 20 11:00:52 472 euros in Finland Jul 20 11:03:18 Heh, increased demand? :) Jul 20 11:05:33 or a decrease in supply :S Jul 20 11:06:26 Finnish price is - now - about what it was in the uK Jul 20 11:07:00 Heh Jul 20 11:07:14 Apparently you can get it for 250 on PAYG in the UK now Jul 20 11:07:33 I ahve't looked anywhere than nokia.co.uk Jul 20 11:07:42 Yeah, I think it's at cpw Jul 20 11:08:41 computeruniverse has them in stock, with a HOT sticker for 433E (shipping to .fi = +16) Jul 20 11:08:59 Actually, 429 at cpw Jul 20 11:09:06 Where I got mine for 256. Jul 20 11:09:06 I wonder where I saw it at 250 Jul 20 11:09:15 (after all rebates and ... Jul 20 11:09:17 256 what? Jul 20 11:09:19 :o Jul 20 11:09:24 oh Jul 20 11:09:26 pounds sterling Jul 20 11:09:26 you're cheating! Jul 20 11:09:31 Heh Jul 20 11:10:00 Well - I used 3 15% off discount codes Jul 20 11:10:02 So, yes Jul 20 11:10:13 and lucked into a survey that gave me 50 quid Jul 20 11:10:29 Well - a 50 quid john lewis vouvher that I need to sell Jul 20 11:10:30 You're lucky Jul 20 11:10:39 Where did you get all those discount codes from? :P Jul 20 11:10:52 they were being discussed at the time Jul 20 11:10:59 pre-order Jul 20 11:11:02 Oh, heh Jul 20 11:11:58 nokia should drop the price significally imho Jul 20 11:11:59 to like 10€ Jul 20 11:12:44 Hahah Jul 20 11:13:19 Only to people with karma of over 420. Jul 20 11:14:03 Damnit, I'd miss out again! Jul 20 11:14:37 I guess I spend too much time attempting to help people on IRC than doing things that would otherwise increase my karma :P Jul 20 11:14:39 think about it, 100€ would buy you a nice cluster Jul 20 11:14:40 okay going to buy it say me good luck :d Jul 20 11:14:49 h4xordood: do it Jul 20 11:14:54 Which reminds me, I need to do more packagetesting. Jul 20 11:14:56 Buy what? What? Jul 20 11:15:00 it's probably the best phone/tablet/whatever i ever used Jul 20 11:15:09 I need to release another app Jul 20 11:15:14 And maybe do some package testing Jul 20 11:15:22 alterego: he's buying an n900 Jul 20 11:15:30 Oh, cool Jul 20 11:15:35 Another one bites the dust Jul 20 11:15:37 I mean candyu Jul 20 11:15:48 alterego: Or easier - work out who you need to submit a karma IRC bot to. Jul 20 11:15:50 h4xordood: hold on Jul 20 11:15:56 and later when mee go device releases i will change other phone :) Jul 20 11:15:59 do you need a phone? Jul 20 11:16:09 because if you need a phone, i wouldn't buy a n900 Jul 20 11:16:19 Works fine for me as a phone. Jul 20 11:16:36 Even if it's not my primary use .. Jul 20 11:16:39 i want to buy for development Jul 20 11:16:44 there are a lot better phones around Jul 20 11:16:47 oh then ok Jul 20 11:16:57 But there's no better gadget :) Jul 20 11:17:01 well of course Jul 20 11:17:09 IRC from the beach <3 Jul 20 11:17:19 Heh, I was doing that earlier this yeaer :) Jul 20 11:17:23 i am not end user Jul 20 11:17:25 :) Jul 20 11:17:33 h4xordood: then yeah, it's *the* device Jul 20 11:17:42 Had a nice little pouch too, was using it to listen to music whilst we had a camp fire on the beach at night Jul 20 11:17:45 (and bbq) Jul 20 11:18:13 it's probably not ready for end users Jul 20 11:18:14 Heya, is there any application to auto reject incoming call for n900 Jul 20 11:18:16 nor it will ever be Jul 20 11:18:29 My friend, who has a HD2, he wanted to put some tunes on. His speakers are even worse than the N900's Jul 20 11:18:45 Then he realises he'd lost his phone and could still hear it playing music .. Under the sad :o Jul 20 11:19:03 alterego: ouch Jul 20 11:19:05 ~sand .. Jul 20 11:19:12 Yeah, was quite funny. Jul 20 11:19:23 My N900 saved the day. flashlight helped us cook and find his phone Jul 20 11:19:29 Asw well as listening to some nice tunes. Jul 20 11:19:32 Taking photots Jul 20 11:20:13 Used the stylus as a scewer for toasting marshmellows Jul 20 11:20:17 (joke) :D Jul 20 11:21:14 darmok and jalad at tanagra Jul 20 11:21:41 * alterego checks his bill for this month. (10.479G data, 371 SMS, 11 pounds worth of calls) Jul 20 11:22:02 :O Jul 20 11:22:06 that's... a lot Jul 20 11:22:18 ahh Jul 20 11:22:19 I know, I didn't realise I sent so many text messages Jul 20 11:22:32 you must be borg Jul 20 11:22:37 alteregoa: get another nick please Jul 20 11:22:44 thats my nick for years Jul 20 11:22:51 for like 10 years Jul 20 11:22:59 Not on freenode it isn't. Jul 20 11:23:07 i like goa Jul 20 11:23:12 my alter ego is goa Jul 20 11:23:23 * alterego gets popcorn ... Jul 20 11:23:40 Wow. This is a new level of confusement. Jul 20 11:23:53 * dunz0r has nicklengnth six in irssi Jul 20 11:24:04 confuzius said: every woman has a banana Jul 20 11:24:20 alteregoa: do you know what this channel is about? Jul 20 11:24:24 alteregoa: otherwise just leave Jul 20 11:24:53 about a developing tool Jul 20 11:24:56 40 minutes and 5 seconds of calls equates to 11 pounds .. Interesting .. Jul 20 11:25:01 alteregoa: no, it's not. Jul 20 11:25:14 Btw, I've seen in some videos, that people search by typing in the appmanager, I've looked around and haven't found anything. Jul 20 11:25:22 dunz0r: PR1.2? Jul 20 11:25:33 dunz0r: go to a category like "All" and start typing :) Jul 20 11:25:33 kerio: I think so. How do I know for sure? Jul 20 11:25:40 did you update it? Jul 20 11:25:47 so its about goa'ulds? Jul 20 11:26:06 aw Jul 20 11:26:06 :( Jul 20 11:26:11 you guys scared him Jul 20 11:26:16 * slonopotamus wonders wtf happened to sorting in app manager in pr1.2 Jul 20 11:26:17 alterego: Thanks, never thought of it that way :) Jul 20 11:26:19 thank f*ck for that :P Jul 20 11:26:45 slonopotamus: they added search-by-typing Jul 20 11:26:56 * dunz0r is cosidering writing a new, lightweight pdf-reader in pure python. Jul 20 11:26:59 Should I? Jul 20 11:27:02 slonopotamus: they probably never tested it though as it takes about 40 seconds to type a letter Jul 20 11:27:11 dunz0r: I don't think it'll be very light weight in python :P Jul 20 11:27:11 I need to learn python so thought it'd be a good project. Jul 20 11:27:12 who uses HAM anyway? Jul 20 11:27:15 fapman is *way* faster Jul 20 11:27:17 * RST38h does Jul 20 11:27:19 plus, much better name Jul 20 11:27:21 alterego: Really, why not? Jul 20 11:27:27 * kerio chuckles Jul 20 11:27:33 Well, Python alone has ~5M foot print Jul 20 11:27:42 RST38h: that doesn't cancel sorting Jul 20 11:27:50 python is awesome Jul 20 11:27:58 alterego: Oh, you mean like that. Ok, fast and not propped full of features then. Jul 20 11:28:04 Small as in simple. Jul 20 11:28:04 It's useful .. Jul 20 11:28:09 but yeah, "lightweight" and "python" shouldn't really go in the same sentence Jul 20 11:28:10 Badly put by me. Jul 20 11:28:20 kerio: You do have a point there :) Jul 20 11:28:20 dunz0r: it wont be particularly fast either :P Jul 20 11:28:38 Uhm, yes it will! Jul 20 11:28:41 wait for a true compiler Jul 20 11:28:42 *holds ears* Jul 20 11:28:46 Heh Jul 20 11:28:59 The usability will be fine. but Python start up times are a pita Jul 20 11:29:11 I can agree to that. Jul 20 11:29:14 i <3 python Jul 20 11:29:22 I plan on porting one of my UI's from python to Qt/C++ because it's so F*cking slow importing the Qt modules Jul 20 11:29:25 but it *is* slower than machine code Jul 20 11:29:49 Should maybe write it in a compiled language... but I want to learn python :) Jul 20 11:29:52 I just don't understand why it takes so long to import PySide modules. Jul 20 11:30:00 I wonder if it'd be quicker if I put them on rootfs Jul 20 11:30:24 dunz0r: then go ahead, sorry, I'm not trying to disuade you, I do a lot of work in Python myself :) Jul 20 11:30:50 The small things I've done in python so far was pretty fast though Jul 20 11:31:14 Well, if you don't use any of the UI toolkits it'll probably be quite quick. Jul 20 11:31:22 Maybe a console, ncurses based PDF reader ;) Jul 20 11:31:33 alterego: That would not be that bad :) Jul 20 11:31:44 Just need to figure out a way to not use a huge pdf-lib Jul 20 11:32:06 alterego: osso-term sucks though Jul 20 11:32:08 Is there some good library for pdf-reading anyone recommends? Jul 20 11:32:09 Well, why not? Jul 20 11:32:28 alterego: The pdf-lib? Or the ncurses-thing. Jul 20 11:32:39 If you pull that off well, it would awesome. Jul 20 11:32:39 Use what is available by default, size doesn't matter unless you're bringing something new in. Jul 20 11:33:06 alterego: That sort of what I meant. What is available in maemo by default? Jul 20 11:33:07 What does the inbuilt pdf reader use .. Jul 20 11:33:12 I haven't started looking really Jul 20 11:33:14 python is great for doing highlevel stuff, but I doubt you can do lowlevel pdf stuff in it without it getting big and slow Jul 20 11:33:25 Probably not :/ Jul 20 11:33:33 it'd be smaller and faster if you did use a pdf-lib I think Jul 20 11:33:47 Well. That's the plan. Jul 20 11:33:53 pdf *is* a very complex format Jul 20 11:34:01 I'm not going to implement pdf in python :) Jul 20 11:35:04 isn't there python poppler already? Jul 20 11:35:33 Hrm, not sure what osso_pdfreader uses. Jul 20 11:35:42 Except libjpeg .. Jul 20 11:36:17 Hrm, it uses gmodule for something too. Jul 20 11:36:41 It probably uses libpoppler then Jul 20 11:37:28 Poppler is nice. Jul 20 11:37:57 I managed to compile it completely without X support once. And lived in the framebuffer for several months :) Jul 20 12:13:14 hi! any user of Knots2 there? Jul 20 12:14:51 anyone know how to merge an .xresources file? xrdb isnt on maemo Jul 20 12:17:01 This thing is a pain in the ass. I can't even count the number of calls I've accidentally rejected Jul 20 12:17:41 When I'm taking the phone out of my pocket it rejects the call in the process. Jul 20 12:18:00 MiXu-: get a phone Jul 20 12:18:13 I'm thinking about it Jul 20 12:18:29 Actually this time the call disconnected before I even did anything. I just sat still. Jul 20 12:22:27 I've never managed to reject or answer a call in pocket yet :D Jul 20 12:22:52 You'd have to shout quite loud, I'd have thought. Jul 20 12:23:15 easy enough, as most likely the proximity sensor will lock the screen Jul 20 12:24:57 I wonder if mine is working properly. Jul 20 12:26:15 ShadowJK: I just managed to turn of sound as I flipped it in my pocket Jul 20 12:27:04 Does the proximity sensor lock the screen only during calls, or should it do that on idle as well? Jul 20 12:27:14 only on call Jul 20 12:28:04 Ok, seems to work Jul 20 12:31:15 * lcuk gulps - 4chan knows about the inverted augmented reality video Jul 20 12:31:33 lcuk: *inverted* augumented reality? Jul 20 12:31:40 lcuk, link to thread? Jul 20 12:31:45 kerio, sure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM Jul 20 12:31:49 that is it. you are hacked, dead, dissected, buried, and pissed upon. Jul 20 12:32:04 Termana, i cant find it, its linked in referers for the video (click playcount which is skyrocketing) Jul 20 12:32:30 RST38h, its on /g/ so tech related thats reasonable i assume Jul 20 12:32:57 hardly. Jul 20 12:33:04 lcuk, I think i found it, but it 404'ed Jul 20 12:33:44 Termana: how do you pronounce "404'ed"? Jul 20 12:33:57 Termana, how did you find it? Jul 20 12:33:59 fourohfourd Jul 20 12:34:47 okay Jul 20 12:34:52 lcuk: impressive Jul 20 12:35:10 damn stupid 3G Jul 20 12:35:26 lcuk, googled the link and 4chan Jul 20 12:35:28 lcuk: cool stuff... front cam or accel ? Jul 20 12:36:02 * SpeedEvil ponders google actually indexing 4chan. Jul 20 12:36:05 lol. Jul 20 12:36:06 I'm looking for a help of a Linux guy Jul 20 12:36:24 lcuk: it is accelerometer I would guess as it seems like swobby when stopping Jul 20 12:36:38 how come that "pidof sticky-notes" returns four different IDs, but "top | grep sticky" show only one running process? Jul 20 12:36:43 Venemo: lots of those next door, you want me to get some? Jul 20 12:37:12 chem|st: if they can answer my question :) Jul 20 12:37:23 Venemo: ps ax | grep sticky Jul 20 12:37:36 Venemo: top is for humans Jul 20 12:37:44 chem|st, achipa dont guess :p rate post in youtube or go read the how to on talk.maemo.org i explain everything there Jul 20 12:37:57 :) Jul 20 12:38:09 * lcuk puts real info into a tmo thread ;) Jul 20 12:38:41 Venemo: the first is the PID the second I dont know the third is PPID and so on Jul 20 12:38:42 slonopotamus: okay, I ran it Jul 20 12:39:00 chem|st: what is a PPID? Jul 20 12:39:10 parent pid Jul 20 12:39:18 aah... Jul 20 12:39:35 and why is the number of PIDs changing sometimes? Jul 20 12:39:37 lcuk: for the (terminology) record, this is VR, not AR (inverse or not) :) Jul 20 12:39:58 (doesn't make it one bit less cool, tho :) ) Jul 20 12:40:01 sometimes "pidof sticky-notes" returns a result even directly after "killall sticky-notes" Jul 20 12:42:11 Venemo: killall just sends a signal. it may take some time for app to react on it. Jul 20 12:42:51 as of now, "ps ax | grep sticky" also returns 3 different processes after the killall... and also a minute after that, even though the UI of the app has long disappeared Jul 20 12:43:27 the strangest thing is, only one process of the app should be running at a time, because I use QtSingleApplication and check whether it is running already. if it does, I return with 0. Jul 20 12:43:36 Venemo: ps ax | grep sticky | grep -v grep is better, otherwise grep's process is included too. Jul 20 12:43:58 ps ax | grep [s]ticky is a nice trick Jul 20 12:44:05 slonopotamus: I excluded grep's process from my description Jul 20 12:44:11 Venemo: k Jul 20 12:44:20 Corsac: why? Jul 20 12:44:28 the output looks like something like this: Jul 20 12:44:32 oh Jul 20 12:44:34 got it Jul 20 12:45:12 2486 user 0 Z [sticky-notes] Jul 20 12:45:12 2486 user 0 Z [sticky-notes] Jul 20 12:45:12 2486 user 0 Z [sticky-notes] Jul 20 12:45:12 2852 root 2088 S grep sticky Jul 20 12:45:19 obviously the last one is grep's process Jul 20 12:45:41 oh, and the three others don't have the same ID Jul 20 12:45:45 just three random numbers Jul 20 12:45:49 the PID does not cahnge if not restarted but the PPID may change as the parent may disappear or be restarted Jul 20 12:45:51 Venemo: Threads != processes. Jul 20 12:46:14 X-Fade: so pidof returns threads, and not processes? Jul 20 12:46:17 Venemo: Fairly recent kernels/linux versions show threads in ps listing. Jul 20 12:46:21 Venemo: the stuff in [] are threads Jul 20 12:46:22 Z is zombie Jul 20 12:46:31 chem|st: ah, okay Jul 20 12:46:51 and what does the 0 and the Z mean? Jul 20 12:46:55 Venemo: you get a line like "2355 6786 785 5761"? Jul 20 12:47:03 X-Fade: or pstree Jul 20 12:47:13 Fapman <------ YESSSS Jul 20 12:47:13 X-Fade: what you said doesn't apply here Jul 20 12:47:14 chem|st: yeah, something like that... if you mean pidof Jul 20 12:47:15 X-Fade: that's true only if explicit option is passed to ps Jul 20 12:47:28 Nokia has just lost public use of yet another of its bundled applications Jul 20 12:47:33 Venemo: the first is your PID! Jul 20 12:47:43 rst: ? Jul 20 12:47:44 okay... Jul 20 12:47:58 SpeedEvi: Install Faster Application Manager Jul 20 12:48:01 and how can I tell whether there is multiple processes running from the same app? Jul 20 12:48:02 ah Jul 20 12:48:15 SpeedEvil: HAM kaput. Jul 20 12:48:23 DocScrutinizer, ping Jul 20 12:48:24 Venemo: use of pidof with |awk '(print $1)' Jul 20 12:48:45 chem|st: how? Jul 20 12:49:11 chem|st: pidof sticky-notes | awk '(print $1)' -> ? Jul 20 12:50:19 or pidof -s sticky-notes Jul 20 12:51:01 chem|st: it returns a single number Jul 20 12:51:30 chem|st: but it does even after killall sticky-notes... is there a way to really kill a process? Jul 20 12:51:40 * slonopotamus wonders what one should do in order to produce long-living zombies Jul 20 12:52:04 "long-living"? Jul 20 12:52:33 toggles_w: that appear in process table for tens of seconds or even minutes Jul 20 12:53:02 slonopotamus: I don't know how I did it, honestly. Jul 20 12:53:12 yawn Jul 20 12:53:36 slonopotamus: The Clockwork Virus of course Jul 20 12:53:39 Venemo: why you started killing them in first place? Jul 20 12:53:47 RST38h: hmm... /me googles Jul 20 12:54:03 slnono: SCP-217 Jul 20 12:54:08 slonopotamus: it is a daemon that runs in the background. I want to kill it in its prerm script Jul 20 12:54:16 slono: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-217 Jul 20 12:54:38 slonopotamus: also, it is designed in such a way that only one instance of the app should be running at a time Jul 20 12:54:50 Venemo: you're using upstart right, it's probably running it again. You need to stop it oproperly :P Jul 20 12:54:58 slonopotamus: had my xorg in D yesterday Jul 20 12:55:07 Venemo: did you start it with some system tool? Jul 20 12:55:13 stop sticky-notes Jul 20 12:55:22 rather than pkill Jul 20 12:55:41 alterego: when the app starts, it checks wheter another instance is running. and if it does, the new instance sends a message to the other, and then shuts itself down Jul 20 12:55:52 slonopotamus: yeah, I have an event.d file Jul 20 12:55:54 Also, are you using runas user? I think the core is dependant on user. Jul 20 12:56:34 so your upstart file under event.d should run as "user" Jul 20 12:56:36 alterego: it is ran as "user" Jul 20 12:56:41 good Jul 20 12:56:45 alterego: the command is: exec su - user -c "exec run-standalone.sh /opt/sticky-notes/sticky-notes in-background &" & Jul 20 12:56:49 Venemo: i strongly recommend stopping it with same tools you start daemon Jul 20 12:56:59 anyway, use stop sticky-notes rather than killing it. Jul 20 12:57:28 slonopotamus: is basically saying exactly what I am Jul 20 12:57:42 alterego: stop sticky-notes returns the following output: "stop: Job not changed: sticky-notes" Jul 20 12:57:45 upstart is probably restarting your process when you're killing it Jul 20 12:57:52 alterego: true Jul 20 12:58:09 strange Jul 20 12:58:16 alterego: stop is unable to stop it Jul 20 12:58:40 alterego: however, after killed by killall, the widgets disappear, so I don't think upstart restarts it Jul 20 12:58:59 but the threads remain Jul 20 12:59:22 killall5 may help Jul 20 12:59:27 * chem|st grabs popcorn Jul 20 12:59:27 pastie.org your upstart script Jul 20 12:59:42 this is the upstart script: Jul 20 12:59:43 http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/sticky-notes/sticky-notes/data/sticky-notes Jul 20 13:00:10 wait killall5 doesnt kill kernel threads.. Jul 20 13:01:13 alterego: is there something wrong in this script? Jul 20 13:01:14 Venemo: you don't need any of the '&' symbols Jul 20 13:01:18 alterego: yes I do Jul 20 13:01:30 You shouldn't do Jul 20 13:01:39 alterego: if I don't put them in there, the qDebug() messages start appearing in the console Jul 20 13:02:02 Then use the 'console' config option :P Jul 20 13:02:04 achipa, nothing wrong with Inverted AR :) Jul 20 13:02:10 its realworld positioning system Jul 20 13:02:10 alterego: so, the user installs it with dpkg, "start sticky-notes" is called Jul 20 13:02:56 alterego: after this, without the & signs, it starts outputting stuff in the console, which is undersired Jul 20 13:02:58 Add: console none Jul 20 13:03:03 to your upstart file. Jul 20 13:03:05 alterego: where? Jul 20 13:03:09 I have to reformat the internal Fat32 Partition and as the internal eMMC partitions seem to be aligned to 32kb physical or 64 logical sectors with the size of 512bytes, I would like to ask if I have to format it with 64 sectors per cluster as well. "mkfs.vfat -F 32 -s 64"? Jul 20 13:03:23 Venemo: this is mine: http://pastie.org/1051943 Jul 20 13:03:28 alterego: also, why is stop not working? is it because the &s? Jul 20 13:03:39 Venemo: yeah probably Jul 20 13:04:59 alterego: okay, I'll try it your way Jul 20 13:06:51 alterego: after changing the upstart script, should I change the prerm script, too? Jul 20 13:06:53 Hrm, I need a shower. Jul 20 13:07:06 alterego: http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/sticky-notes/sticky-notes/debian/prerm Jul 20 13:07:08 Venemo: just edit the upstart script on the device and check it still works :) Jul 20 13:07:21 alterego: okay Jul 20 13:07:30 Venemo: but if you really want to package it and everything then change "killall" to "stop" Jul 20 13:07:58 I'd test that start and stop work as expected first, including restarting the device and making sure it starts properly. Jul 20 13:07:58 alterego: yes, I really want to package it and everything Jul 20 13:08:08 alterego: okay, will do Jul 20 13:08:11 Venemo: sure, but you should get it working first :P Jul 20 13:08:50 alterego: true :) Jul 20 13:10:43 or should I keep the default sectors-per-cluster size of 4kb and define the logical-sector-size to 32768? like "mkfs.vfat -F 32 -S 32768" Jul 20 13:11:57 tobis87: why is the default not good enough for you? Jul 20 13:14:01 Venemo: The default would be good enough, but as I have to reformat, I don't know if it is calclulated automatically. Jul 20 13:14:33 tobis87: it is Jul 20 13:14:53 Are you formatting a micro sd? Jul 20 13:14:54 alterego: this is just ridiculous Jul 20 13:15:06 alterego: I've changed the upstart script as you recommended Jul 20 13:15:24 alterego: now I have to type Ctrl+C after "start sticky-notes" Jul 20 13:15:57 alterego: also, stop sticky-notes seems to work, but it doesn't really stop the process. (the widgets are still there after stopping it) Jul 20 13:16:11 Hmm Jul 20 13:17:16 alterego: ok, is there any tool to check? like tune2fs -l? I noted that mkfs.ext3 creates block-size of 4096 and blocks-per-group of 32768 bytes. I was just not sure that mkfs.vfat is able to do the same. Jul 20 13:17:26 alterego: however it seems that a combination of stop and killall now correctly kills the app Jul 20 13:17:47 alterego: the internal eMMC: MyDocs Jul 20 13:17:57 tobis87: why do you care? Just use the defaults the program is better suited than your guesses :P Jul 20 13:18:23 Venemo: hrm .. Jul 20 13:18:24 tobis87: why don't you just reflash it? Jul 20 13:18:29 Wait, what does 'in-background' actually do? Jul 20 13:18:58 Does your app background itself with that flag? Jul 20 13:19:02 alterego: when it is launched with in-background, it doesn't create a new widget on start Jul 20 13:19:09 Oh, okay Jul 20 13:19:24 alterego: http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/sticky-notes/sticky-notes/main.cpp Jul 20 13:20:13 Right, okay Jul 20 13:20:36 Do you have a package I can play with? Jul 20 13:20:44 Basically editing your upstart and testing it. Jul 20 13:20:58 So I need your app executable and any resources it might have. Jul 20 13:21:02 alterego: I had read an article on these new 4kb hdd. And I thought maybe it could have the same problems if I format it without the proper settings. Jul 20 13:21:15 alterego: if you checkout the http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/sticky-notes/ it should be fine, but I can send you a .deb in e-mail if you wish Jul 20 13:21:40 I'll check it out and build it in madde Jul 20 13:21:54 Venemo: Nah I would only reflash it if it wouldn't boot anymore. Jul 20 13:21:54 alterego: I also use madde, so it should work Jul 20 13:22:09 tobis87: why is reformatting better than reflash? :D Jul 20 13:22:42 alterego: but it works with the autobuilder, too, so I guess scratchbox can handle it, too Jul 20 13:23:03 Venemo: what is your svn url? Jul 20 13:23:12 I guess bad request when I use the link you game me.# Jul 20 13:23:12 alterego: http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/sticky-notes/ Jul 20 13:23:16 sorry Jul 20 13:23:18 my bad Jul 20 13:23:39 a moment, please Jul 20 13:23:58 https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=1713 says that the SVN url is https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/sticky-notes Jul 20 13:24:00 Venemo: Because I probably would have to repartitionate it again. Jul 20 13:24:16 tobis87: ah, okay. sorry then :) Jul 20 13:24:17 Venemo: cheers, that worked :) Jul 20 13:25:35 I need to have a shower in a moment so I can't promise I'll be quick sorting this out ;)) Jul 20 13:25:45 alterego: I'll be trying, too Jul 20 13:35:13 ~seen X-Fade Jul 20 13:35:16 x-fade is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 37 messages. Is idling for 48m 58s, last said: 'Venemo: Fairly recent kernels/linux versions show threads in ps listing.'. Jul 20 13:35:39 iksaif: Here Jul 20 13:36:19 who wrote infobot? Jul 20 13:36:25 X-Fade: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/lugdulov_0.1.0-1/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt Jul 20 13:36:32 alterego told you could help me with that Jul 20 13:36:33 is he specific to #maemo? I haven't seen him on other channels Jul 20 13:36:48 seems that there is some issue with Qt/QtMobility and the i386 autobuilder Jul 20 13:38:50 iksaif: looking Jul 20 13:38:51 iksaif: the log doesn't contain the word 'mobility' Jul 20 13:39:11 Venemo: qtm :) Jul 20 13:39:13 Location / Bearer Jul 20 13:40:01 but ... it's probably not only QtMobility: Jul 20 13:40:02 /targets/maemo5-i386-ca9d8d9164a37e11e189f5a1104569a7158a1042/usr/bin/../lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.2.1/../../../libQtGui.so: undefined reference to `XSetTile' Jul 20 13:40:50 the arm build was successfull Jul 20 13:41:20 (and on my scratchbox, both armel and i386 seems to works, it even works on my amd64 gentoo) Jul 20 13:42:05 iksaif: Yes that looks like an X dependency missing. Comparing what root log says for armel and i386. Jul 20 13:44:04 libx11-6 is reported missing, but it's installed according to https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/lugdulov_0.1.0-1/i386.root.log.OK.txt Jul 20 13:44:12 same thing apply to liblocation Jul 20 13:46:49 I said the problem looked like it was dependencies of your dependencies :) Jul 20 13:46:57 So talk to X-Fade as he might know what's wrong :D Jul 20 13:47:07 iksaif: But i386 seems to install libx11-6 just fine. Jul 20 13:48:12 X-Fade: yep I know .. but ld doesn't seems to find libx11-6 Jul 20 13:49:48 should I use some magic -rpath / -rpath-link / -L flag ? (the strange thing is that it works on armel, is there any path difference between armel and i386 ?) Jul 20 13:50:36 iksaif: There is nothing special you should do. Jul 20 13:53:52 Very annoying Jul 20 13:53:58 Venemo: can't build your package Jul 20 13:54:06 Can't be bothered to debug Jul 20 13:54:14 Give me a .deb and I'll look at it a bit later :) Jul 20 13:54:20 maybe I could add a ls /targets/maemo5-i386-ca9d8d9164a37e11e189f5a1104569a7158a1042/usr/lib/ to check what's really installed Jul 20 13:54:35 iksaif: I doubt that's necessary. Jul 20 13:55:32 achipa, also, if you read the page about how it works, you would know why i say that Jul 20 13:56:53 It's fine, until you get in the way of the light sources :P Jul 20 13:57:18 iksaif: The files are there, that is not the problem. Jul 20 13:57:32 iksaif: I wonder if it is symbols related. Jul 20 13:58:55 I don't think it's only symbols related, ld clearly say "[...] libX11.so.6 [...] not found", but I may be wrong Jul 20 14:04:12 iksaif: Need to debug this. This is weird. Jul 20 14:04:43 X-Fade: do you want the source package ? Jul 20 14:05:15 hum .. nothing .. it's already in results/ Jul 20 14:05:27 iksaif: Don't need it. https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/lugdulov_0.1.0-1/results/ Jul 20 14:06:29 lcuk: er... the VR vs AR thing ? Still hard to tell - in my eyes AR implies that the 'reality' segment provides *content*. But then again, I might simply be wrong :) Jul 20 14:13:49 achipa, either way its different ;) Jul 20 14:15:58 iksaif: Quick workaround is to disable building for i386 in your package. If you are in a hurry. Jul 20 14:18:41 X-Fade: no hurry :), I just wanted to know what I should do Jul 20 14:19:13 I should change the arch line in debian/control right ? Jul 20 14:19:49 iksaif: Yes. Jul 20 14:20:08 I have a Java application running with icedtea6 OpenJDK VM. Is it possible to make the application run in fullscreen without changing any sourcecode? Jul 20 14:20:11 iksaif: I wonder if somehow the path gets messed up during the build. Jul 20 14:20:50 Or the other way around: Can I hide the top bar showing the clock and so on? Jul 20 14:20:52 jrocha: I've got pygoocanvas ported Jul 20 14:21:16 and I'm working on getting ocrfeeder running Jul 20 14:22:17 jrocha: When I try to run ocrfeeder, it gives the following error: Jul 20 14:22:27 File "/home/jordan/workspace/ocrfeeder/util/lib.py", line 27, in Jul 20 14:22:27 from gnome import url_show Jul 20 14:22:27 ImportError: cannot import name url_show Jul 20 14:24:43 missing module Jul 20 14:24:51 look like Jul 20 14:25:11 * DocScrutinizer *sigh* Jul 20 14:28:18 X-Fade: maybe it's related to cmake and I should use qmake for the maemo package Jul 20 14:28:34 but the last g++ line seems clean to me Jul 20 14:29:26 iksaif: It can set some env var or reset the path. Jul 20 14:30:41 but .. why does it work with armel then ? :/ strange Jul 20 14:31:55 iksaif: i386 for qtm contains some different code but I really don't think that is what causes this. Jul 20 14:33:34 libpng, libjpeg, libz, libX11 are not found too, so it's probably not only related to qtm Jul 20 14:34:46 is there a way to simulate the autobuilder ? (get the same rootfs) Jul 20 14:35:34 iksaif: It is just using the released rootfs and the rpos. Jul 20 14:37:08 do you get a link for the rootfs ? I didn't manage to find it :/ Jul 20 14:37:54 iksaif: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/i386/ Jul 20 14:38:21 thanks Jul 20 14:38:35 anyone an idea how to sort desktops in another order? I do not find the file(s) where the setup is stored Jul 20 14:38:36 I'll try to debug that this evening, and get back to you if I found something .. Jul 20 14:42:36 does the N900 have a transflective screen like the N810? Jul 20 14:42:51 somewhat Jul 20 14:43:02 it's quite visible in direct sunlight - at the right angles Jul 20 14:43:13 in diffuse light - not so much Jul 20 14:43:34 good contrast in sunlight, but the colors are weird. Jul 20 14:43:41 yeah Jul 20 14:44:09 so webpages are easy to read in sunlight, but don't try to paint in it. Jul 20 14:44:10 Good contrast in direct sunlight - with the screen pointed the right way - though not very critical, you will often need to move Jul 20 14:44:12 LjL: yes Jul 20 14:44:32 thanks Jul 20 14:45:01 SpeedEvil: mmh experienced different... just don't mirror the sun to your face... Jul 20 14:45:07 ;) Jul 20 14:45:39 does anyone know where to find the desktop files where the positions of icons and applets is stored? Jul 20 14:45:42 I mean - there are some angles it doesn't work in Jul 20 14:46:10 in direct sun you will generally see something if there isn't a direct reflection. Jul 20 14:46:18 to get a 'good' picture requires a bit more Jul 20 14:46:45 but really just a bit... a bit tilt and roll and you are good Jul 20 14:46:51 yeah Jul 20 14:47:12 hmm the metal ring of the camera when the flash is used make look bad Jul 20 14:47:15 the pictures Jul 20 14:47:18 not much of an effort to have a crystal clear picture with odd colours ;) Jul 20 14:47:44 E0x: careful it's not actually a finger Jul 20 14:48:00 I'm willing to put up with dark blue text on a yellowish background if it's readable in sunlight. Jul 20 14:48:04 SpeedEvil: hehehe Jul 20 14:48:09 na Jul 20 14:48:11 SpeedEvil: no had that myself lately its brightning up on top Jul 20 14:48:33 I know - I've seen it too Jul 20 14:48:41 especially in 'night' mode Jul 20 14:49:08 dmj726_devel: that doesnt matter, the colours are just turned metal... Jul 20 14:49:56 It's fine for watching movies in the sun Jul 20 14:51:21 SpeedEvil: any idea for the desktop files (I know I found them once but forgot where) Jul 20 14:51:34 Sorry - no clue Jul 20 14:51:55 is anyone here familiar with how one packages a python based application in debian? Jul 20 14:51:57 E0x: I painted it black with a marker Jul 20 14:52:20 i need my python app to be run using 'python2.5' not '/usr/bin/python' Jul 20 14:52:46 DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=448631&postcount=64 Jul 20 14:52:47 better Jul 20 14:53:01 pyversionsvictim, see here: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/FAQ#When_I_build_my_Python_application_on_Scratchbox.2C_files_are_installed_in_.2Fscratchbox.2F..._How_do_I_modify_Debian_packaging_so_the_correct_Python_interpreter_is_called.3F Jul 20 14:53:01 DocScrutinizer: hehe i was thinking in that Jul 20 14:53:04 right now Jul 20 14:53:12 how to make miroB add-ons page like this one? Jul 20 14:53:12 http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9658/screenshot2010072016232.jpg Jul 20 14:53:41 mo Jul 20 14:53:43 er Jul 20 14:53:48 microb addons suck Jul 20 14:53:58 my addons page looks different Jul 20 14:54:12 only has extensions and plugins on top Jul 20 14:54:24 no themes and languages Jul 20 14:55:48 E0x: edding 400 black permanent marker Jul 20 14:55:54 WFM Jul 20 14:57:34 if you want to get fancy, you could use silk finish varnish Jul 20 14:59:08 DocScrutinizer: hehe , ok thx Jul 20 15:00:58 http://www.modellbau-seidel.de/index.php?firma=Revell&best=32302&name=schwarz,-seidenmatt-Nr.302-14ml&lang=de Jul 20 15:01:41 i am not that fancy Jul 20 15:03:49 DocScrutinizer: should have some of those at home Jul 20 15:03:51 I only painted the inner side 'visible' from lens, so when you look at phone back with lens slider closed you don't even notice the modification Jul 20 15:06:14 dmj726_devel, remove the url_show line because that is used to launch a browser Jul 20 15:06:31 and not really needed Jul 20 15:06:35 uhmmm i see that on ebay there are several fake offers that are actually for chinese copies of the N900. does anyone have hints on spotting them? Jul 20 15:06:43 DocScrutinizer: what's the problem with the border? Jul 20 15:07:03 blue glares when using flashlight Jul 20 15:07:21 LjL, example links? Jul 20 15:07:55 LjL: price? Jul 20 15:08:24 nidO: i was just reading a review at http://www.ainu.it/cellulari/cect-n900-dualsim/ Jul 20 15:08:32 LjL: ...if not for the tech specs Jul 20 15:08:33 DocScrutinizer: that's only know at the auction end though ;) Jul 20 15:08:38 well Jul 20 15:08:42 dual sim = fake Jul 20 15:08:50 java = fake Jul 20 15:08:52 running symbian = fake Jul 20 15:09:04 right, but the auction might not say that. i need to look at the photo Jul 20 15:09:04 being called "n900 style phone" = not an n900. Jul 20 15:09:34 LjL: even the photo may be faked. So no way to tell for sure Jul 20 15:10:23 if you buy one that's advertised as an n900, NOT an "n900-style" device, then the seller's liable through ebay + paypal's buyer protection if what you get isnt an n900. Jul 20 15:10:56 most of the knock-off adverts clearly say theyre n900-style devices though, which people just dont read properly, and theyre perfectly legit sales and it's your problem if what you get isnt what you expected Jul 20 15:12:08 jrocha: thanks Jul 20 15:12:13 nidO: well i've seen a few where they specify "dual sim" but otherwise say nokia n900. but you're right about the buyer protection. Jul 20 15:12:26 still, i would prefer, if at all possible, to spot the fake beforehand ;) Jul 20 15:12:36 usb networking is working fine between my N900 and debian notebook, but the connection keeps getting lost that I have to keep doing ifdown usb0 ; ifup usb0 Jul 20 15:12:41 reminds me of the ebay sale of "XBOX - BOX ONLY" raking big bids Jul 20 15:12:58 heh Jul 20 15:13:09 ~seen alterego Jul 20 15:13:12 alterego is currently on #maemo (3h 11m 58s) #meego (3h 11m 58s). Has said a total of 201 messages. Is idling for 1h 16m 18s, last said: 'It's fine, until you get in the way of the light sources :P'. Jul 20 15:13:12 what do you think is reasonable ebay price for a genuine n900 anyway Jul 20 15:13:24 what currency Jul 20 15:13:39 ~seen w00t_ Jul 20 15:13:40 w00t_ is currently on #maemo (3d 10m 47s) #meego (3d 10m 47s). Has said a total of 16 messages. Is idling for 4h 26m 23s, last said: 'Kompo: good question, I don't know where they hang out.. might be an idea to send a mail to the ML and ask whether there is anything set up'. Jul 20 15:14:14 nidO: i use euro, but i guess i could buy from the UK too (not really from the US) Jul 20 15:14:21 baraujo: thanks, but that wasn't what i was looking for Jul 20 15:14:47 pyversionsvictim, how are you running your app? Jul 20 15:14:49 it turns out that my problems were caused mostly by a set of very evil debian/rules lines Jul 20 15:15:03 /usr/bin/foo :) Jul 20 15:15:20 :) Jul 20 15:15:20 the problem was that one of the debian/rules lines kept rewriting my #! line Jul 20 15:15:39 my next problem is how to get SBOX_DPKG_BUILDDEPS=no to be internalized by debian/rules Jul 20 15:15:48 LjL: generally the £250 mark plus, though it's worth noting that the n900 is now in the clearance range on mobiles.co.uk so you can get it guaranteed legitimately from them for £250 Jul 20 15:17:21 i'm basically in doubt whether to get a Motorola Milestone or an N900. i was going for the Milestone because i believed (mistakenly) an N900 would have been much more expensive Jul 20 15:17:50 n900 > else Jul 20 15:17:59 any ideas? Jul 20 15:18:31 kerio: as hardware and openness goes, i think so. however Android has just so much more software, as far as i can see Jul 20 15:18:41 well the device is 9 months old now and it's going to become redundant *very* quickly if there's no properly functioning meego port, once meego devices start showing up on shelves in the next 6 months Jul 20 15:18:45 where is stored info about running widgets? Jul 20 15:18:48 so the price has been dropping like a stone Jul 20 15:19:18 meego/harmattan will be ok to develop and use imho Jul 20 15:19:34 and i have the full debian repo right in front of my eyes Jul 20 15:19:41 android can't beat that Jul 20 15:20:09 the Motorola Milestone is so closed - i mean Android itself is open enough, but they required signed kernels and signed stuff. the N900 seems so much better in that respect Jul 20 15:20:39 kerio: true, Android can't beat that (although you can run arbitrary Linux apps on some Android phones too, i think, by installing libraries), but it has to be considered that those aren't apps *made* to work on a phone. Jul 20 15:21:33 LjL: that's awesome, the n900 is not a phone! Jul 20 15:21:35 :D Jul 20 15:22:04 except you know, it is ;( Jul 20 15:22:07 tbh, given the choice of a brand new device right now i'd be hard-pushed not to get a Streak Jul 20 15:22:13 or if it's not, then the Milestone isn't either Jul 20 15:22:19 ...and apparently the Droid X has hardware included to brick your device if you try to run alternate kernels Jul 20 15:22:22 Streak? Jul 20 15:22:27 yes Jul 20 15:22:32 rmrfchik: gconf Jul 20 15:22:32 dmj726_devel: that's FUD Jul 20 15:22:37 ...is it? Jul 20 15:22:43 dell streak, 5" android tablet / enormophone Jul 20 15:22:54 LjL, theres an Android port in the mix for the n900. So you can buy one device and hit two birds with the one hammer. MeeGo and Android Jul 20 15:22:56 alternate kernels don't work though Jul 20 15:23:05 dmj726_devel: quite positive Jul 20 15:23:12 lol nitdroid Jul 20 15:23:22 Termana: i know, but currently the port is lacking lots of functionality including the phone itself Jul 20 15:23:33 tbh, great though the nitdroid project is, lets be realistic, it's never going to get polished enough to be at a consumer-usable state on the n900. Jul 20 15:23:40 ...note: droidX, not droid Jul 20 15:23:55 nidO: though i'm on meego side, that's a bit mean to say :P Jul 20 15:24:23 I'm hoping meego will be at least maemo 5 usable on n900 Jul 20 15:24:34 dmj726_devel: moto released a statement saying it's not true Jul 20 15:25:41 LjL, its getting there. a few bugs still need to be worked out, the last i heard from the guy working on that part (phone), but its nearly there. A good reason why I went with the n900 (only made my purchase recently), being able to have them both. Jul 20 15:25:54 okay...yeah it just goes into a "recovery mode" Jul 20 15:25:58 nidO, problem is: if the open meego is aimed to be consumer usable ANYWHERE it will have to have the same amount of polishing and more Jul 20 15:26:13 so the hard work and progress Stskeeps is making towards it helps all oems later Jul 20 15:26:27 still device that requires signed kernels vs one that gives you graphical tools to modify your kernel Jul 20 15:27:26 lcuk: since when was the n900 aimed at end users? Jul 20 15:27:59 since it was advertised in shops. Jul 20 15:28:07 hey, my Mom loves her n900 Jul 20 15:28:19 kerio, my girlfriend has one Jul 20 15:28:30 my son and his mates want em Jul 20 15:28:46 had a friend and an uncle buy one Jul 20 15:29:00 tho the rate luke goes throguh phones hes not having one for a while ;) Jul 20 15:29:02 well, they don't care about maemo/harmattan/meego/android Jul 20 15:29:06 ...though my uncle probably bought it because my mom was bragging. Jul 20 15:29:35 for the dede Jul 20 15:29:57 end users can care about wanting "better" things too, and thats my point. nitdroid is great for geekiness right now, but until it's polished and working fine, it wont ever even be an option for end-users Jul 20 15:30:06 for the developers here, what do I need to start developing python and qt in/for N900? Jul 20 15:30:24 smhar_: apt-get install python-qt Jul 20 15:30:27 end users wont change OS Jul 20 15:30:31 and for what it's worth, following the past 8 months of vague education of my girlfriend regarding phones etc, shes looking forward to getting a stable fully-functional Froyo rom on her hd2. Jul 20 15:30:33 or something Jul 20 15:30:40 its like expecting people with windows computers to change to linux Jul 20 15:30:44 or to move from internet explorer Jul 20 15:30:48 then install pygtkeditor or whatever thing you want to type in Jul 20 15:30:52 I run windows on my workstation. Jul 20 15:31:07 * lcuk uses windows as well as linux Jul 20 15:31:10 lcuk: my aunt is really happy with ubuntu Jul 20 15:31:12 I have Windows on some computers Jul 20 15:31:22 it gets booted at least monthly. Jul 20 15:31:39 usually Jul 20 15:31:40 i cant remember the last time i rebooted for stragne reasons Jul 20 15:31:49 normally only in a powercut Jul 20 15:31:55 iv never rebooted either of my win7 machines for any unintentional reason Jul 20 15:32:06 and iv been running it on both of them since the day the rc1 release came out Jul 20 15:32:15 Windows gets booted that often...linux gets booted whenever I update the kernel Jul 20 15:32:22 nidO, you cannot upgrade from rc1 to final can you? Jul 20 15:32:33 no, i did have to intentionally reboot both to install final Jul 20 15:33:07 nidO: do you think it may be worth waiting some more for the price to drop like a stone some more, or the day meego/android work well on it, the price will skyrocket before i can even realize? Jul 20 15:33:26 but, no crashes, hangs, freezes, or any of the bullshit that raving nix fanboys associate with the dreaded m$ operating system theyve never used and couldnt use properly back when they did Jul 20 15:33:58 LjL, I cant really see the n900 going much below the current £250 before it simply stops being sold Jul 20 15:34:08 Windows' problem isn't crashing, freezing etc these days Jul 20 15:34:21 ...it's all the other unpleasant things Jul 20 15:34:23 what is it then, restarting once a month, maybe? Jul 20 15:34:56 Hi ! Jul 20 15:35:04 windows getting stuck on updates while booting? Jul 20 15:35:37 what is this, 2003? Jul 20 15:35:58 Good night everyone Jul 20 15:36:02 no, I've seen Vista do that on at least a dozen machines Jul 20 15:36:12 I must admit I did have to power down my fileserver last week to add more ram to it, it'd only been up since last october :\ Jul 20 15:36:59 dmj726_devel: vista is admittedly a piece of crap, but 7 is much nicer Jul 20 15:37:37 i know people still using xp 32bit on a 64bit quadcore with 8gb of ram Jul 20 15:37:38 :/ Jul 20 15:37:50 the main problem with vista is bad user experience due to shitty oem's trying to cram the full vista experience on piece of shit £300 computers, i personally never much liked vista but it doesnt deserve half the stick it gets Jul 20 15:38:00 7 is better, though I haven't had the opportunity to see if it displays the same behavior in the update reboot Jul 20 15:38:31 dmj726_devel: it "configures" the updates on reboot sometimes, yes. but it is faster and less annoying Jul 20 15:38:32 I also find Vista and later have some driver support issues Jul 20 15:38:52 fwiw, I do have vista on one of my crummy laptops, granted I dont use that laptop much but that means every time I do there're updates waiting that then want a reboot, and iv never had any problems applying them Jul 20 15:39:23 also always depends on the users Jul 20 15:39:25 I also had problems upgrading vista to 7 on a few people's machines Jul 20 15:39:33 i never had problems with vista ;) Jul 20 15:39:35 upgrading = doing it wrong Jul 20 15:40:05 nidO: this is actually true Jul 20 15:40:12 had to do a full reinstall = questions about why things are missing and please get them back Jul 20 15:40:17 ...for weeks Jul 20 15:40:46 :| Jul 20 15:40:56 dmj726_devel: and if you do a full reinstall of any other operating system, you don't get questions about why things are missing? Jul 20 15:40:57 Linux full reinstalls basically mean grab the package list and home partition. Jul 20 15:41:04 use migration tool to generate backup, then full reinstall? Jul 20 15:41:28 MS registry makes problems Jul 20 15:42:05 ...and I'm not about to copy a Vista registry to a random windows 7 install...just seems like a recipe for problems. Jul 20 15:42:28 dmj726_devel: it is a recipe for problems. Jul 20 15:42:39 ok its gconf again for position of desktop stuff... Jul 20 15:42:56 the first ingredient for your recipe is corrupted ... Jul 20 15:43:02 which leaves reinstalling apps, configuring settings, one by one Jul 20 15:43:02 avoid win Jul 20 15:44:00 someone remember where repository signature are available on maemo ? Jul 20 15:44:07 someone remember where repository signature are stored on maemo ? Jul 20 15:44:14 Linux's home folder strategy is much nicer with respect to recovery/upgrading. Jul 20 15:45:36 / Don't open connections in parallel, that brings the little devices Jul 20 15:45:36 / down to their knees. Jul 20 15:45:39 lol Jul 20 15:45:46 nice comment Jul 20 15:46:13 Khertan: where did you find that comment? Jul 20 15:46:14 dmj726_devel: I dont understand why you'd have to reconfigure anything beyond just running through the installers for the software you need on the fresh install. Jul 20 15:46:54 some people like to tweak settings...the installers are of course a much bigger pain. Jul 20 15:47:00 Venemo, Nokia-N900:~# cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00maemo Jul 20 15:47:16 but you can backup/restore all software and system settings in like 5 clicks Jul 20 15:48:05 windows easy transfer > backup everything on the vista machine to a dvd/network > install win7 > run through software installers > restore backup = identical system but on win7 rather than vista Jul 20 15:49:37 W: GPG error: http://khertan.net fremantle-1.2 Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 2 Jul 20 15:49:50 grr i don't understand why i got this fucking apt error Jul 20 15:50:10 someone have my repository installed on his device ? Jul 20 16:07:41 Khertan, i reflashed since and im not at home so having trouble with wifi Jul 20 16:16:12 chem|st: lart gconf Jul 20 16:17:39 http://pastie.org/1052250 Jul 20 16:17:54 any idea why my linux host says than when plugin in the n900? Jul 20 16:18:00 the messages keep appearing Jul 20 16:18:09 and no drive shows up Jul 20 16:18:44 corecode, is your linux host a T4x series thinkpad by any chance? Jul 20 16:18:48 cable broken? Jul 20 16:19:03 gah cable again? Jul 20 16:19:48 dunno, seen that sometimes, but usually it "fixed itself" when I rebooted or used other port or other cable Jul 20 16:20:03 (seen that not on N900 though, other devices) Jul 20 16:20:25 might as well be a N900 kernel issue Jul 20 16:20:29 yeh cable Jul 20 16:20:32 damn Jul 20 16:20:33 k Jul 20 16:20:51 bastard chinese cable manufacturer Jul 20 16:20:52 s Jul 20 16:20:59 yup Jul 20 16:21:10 glad to help :-D Jul 20 16:21:19 any idea for a decent cable that's not too expensive? Jul 20 16:22:54 DocScrutinizer: lart? Jul 20 16:23:04 :/ this sdcard is slower than my internet connection Jul 20 16:23:30 ~lart gconf Jul 20 16:23:31 * infobot decapitates gconf conan the destroyer style Jul 20 16:23:42 corecode: I paid 1eur for each... have 6 nokia made in china... Jul 20 16:23:58 DocScrutinizer: oh yes Jul 20 16:24:11 chem|st: all work? Jul 20 16:24:19 corecode: so far yes Jul 20 16:24:20 or all are broken? Jul 20 16:24:26 also for charging? Jul 20 16:25:12 but the coat is about 4 times of the shipped with and not very easy to realign Jul 20 16:25:30 coat? Jul 20 16:25:39 mantle Jul 20 16:25:44 cladding Jul 20 16:25:58 not sure i understand the sentence Jul 20 16:25:58 dont know what you call it for copper wire Jul 20 16:26:11 where did you get them? Jul 20 16:26:17 amazone Jul 20 16:26:19 amazon Jul 20 16:26:22 oh Jul 20 16:26:24 i see Jul 20 16:27:07 was about 8eur with shipment Jul 20 16:27:15 the cleading of the wire smells like old tires and is as much bendable Jul 20 16:27:23 mm there are mini->micro adapters Jul 20 16:27:33 corecode: country? Jul 20 16:27:35 maybe that's better Jul 20 16:27:39 switzerland/germany Jul 20 16:27:44 lbt, any news? Jul 20 16:27:47 corecode: yep Jul 20 16:28:02 got 3 pcs recently Jul 20 16:28:14 DocScrutinizer: they work better? Jul 20 16:28:37 corecode: http://www.amazon.de/Nokia-CA-101-Datenkabel/dp/B000U6QPFI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1279643282&sr=8-3 Jul 20 16:28:39 [3718017.402442] sd 52330:0:0:1: [sdf] Sense Key : Medium Error [current] Jul 20 16:28:42 WEH? Jul 20 16:28:49 they look like they work, but then that's just little dongles with a micro male and a mini female Jul 20 16:28:50 this is a new card! Jul 20 16:30:05 corecode: this is a new *broken* card it seems Jul 20 16:30:17 not that unusual Jul 20 16:30:48 kingston? Jul 20 16:31:05 I am no more Jul 20 16:31:25 hm? Jul 20 16:32:05 * chem|st is starving and needs to go shopping first... Jul 20 16:32:25 is there a way to get vnc viewer working properly when you got multiple monitors on you pc? Jul 20 16:32:28 chem|st: same here Jul 20 16:33:28 dealing with administration and helping things to move whole day, and no time to go buy some food :-S Jul 20 16:34:06 anyway, as long as it gets h-e-n out of limbo state, it's worth it Jul 20 16:34:14 Man the community forum is dead. Jul 20 16:34:22 awwww Jul 20 16:34:37 DocScrutinizer: yes, kingston Jul 20 16:34:48 knew you'd say that :-p Jul 20 16:34:55 no! Jul 20 16:34:58 sandisk Jul 20 16:35:03 oooh Jul 20 16:35:19 sure it's no fake? Jul 20 16:35:35 came from a reputable dealer Jul 20 16:35:35 or is there a wifi remote, like bluemaemo? Jul 20 16:35:46 hmm Jul 20 16:36:01 what is the point of having a youtube app when you can not view or download any flash?! Jul 20 16:40:21 hello Jul 20 16:41:19 so how do i know if a cable is authentic? Jul 20 16:43:40 corecode: buy it from nokia Jul 20 16:43:48 wait, what cable? Jul 20 16:45:35 * mgedmin has a laptop with a SD card reader -- but you push the card all the way in, it won't work; you have to pull it out half a milimetre to have it work ... Jul 20 16:47:28 duct tape to the rescue! Jul 20 16:47:53 kerio: micro usb Jul 20 16:55:44 uffff Jul 20 16:56:11 bye guys, good evening to you all Jul 20 17:00:00 fooood! Jul 20 17:01:15 hi, is osso-backup supposed to restore the tags for images? if not where is the metadata kept? Jul 20 17:02:38 corecode: if you can tell it is not authentic you know... Jul 20 17:02:52 chem|st: if it costs less than $20? Jul 20 17:03:22 barisione: at least lat/lon is stored in exif Jul 20 17:03:25 I'm unsure if more is Jul 20 17:03:36 hm, could be Jul 20 17:03:47 I'm reflashing and restoring again as the previous restore failed Jul 20 17:04:54 corecode: no it is normal to be around 3eur if cheap Jul 20 17:05:20 chem|st: for an authentic nokia? Jul 20 17:05:44 corecode: in the store it is about 5eur Jul 20 17:06:11 hmmm Jul 20 17:06:18 which store is that? Jul 20 17:06:28 not talking about mini-usb Jul 20 17:06:30 but micro usb Jul 20 17:07:18 mediamarkt Jul 20 17:07:58 the amazon one for 2.72eur should be just fine Jul 20 17:08:54 compare old cam, new (1.2) genuine cam, and blessn900: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10031?sort=0 -1/+3 Jul 20 17:25:34 SpeedEvil: geotags are stupid Jul 20 17:25:34 particularly because they require data Jul 20 17:25:43 the AGPS also requires data, which is stupid too - i guess Jul 20 17:26:07 but at least it helps Jul 20 17:26:21 worse thing is that there's no way to disable geotagging without disabling the gps too Jul 20 17:26:45 geotags only require data to pull the name of the city, otherwise you get coordinates without data. AGPS is what it is - it's ASSISTED GPS, assisted by data Jul 20 17:26:52 Moo VDVsx Jul 20 17:27:38 moo RST38h - fixed your blueblinkbusiness? Jul 20 17:27:43 TomaszD: yeah but you can't tell camera-ui to stop bugging you for the tags Jul 20 17:27:43 man, as much as I like this thing, it's tendency to become totally unresponsive still pisses me off Jul 20 17:27:58 where is stored info about running widgets? Jul 20 17:28:17 Doc: ? what business ? Jul 20 17:28:30 the blue indicator flashing issue Jul 20 17:28:36 RST38h, hey :) Jul 20 17:28:42 urgh, I feel ill Jul 20 17:29:01 alterego: shit, eat your meds Jul 20 17:29:24 I am, I think the metronidazole is making me feel a bit off. Jul 20 17:29:40 Though I've only had one, so it might be a placebo effect thing Jul 20 17:29:57 Probably about time I took another couple of pills though. Jul 20 17:30:16 nah, antibiotica tend to hit hard on first ingestion, normalizes after a day or two usually Jul 20 17:30:44 I have quite bad eczema sometimes, so I'm used to normal penicilin based antibiotics Jul 20 17:31:01 But metronidazole is something I've not had before. Jul 20 17:31:24 RST38h: I found xchat /notify_mode a real PITA, esp since it's not even persistent over prog restarts it seems Jul 20 17:31:50 nobody knows? sad :( Jul 20 17:31:54 DocScrutinizer: can't you stick it in the start up scripts? Jul 20 17:32:04 RST38h: well I can include the desired setting in my startup script Jul 20 17:32:06 rmrfchik: it's in gconf Jul 20 17:32:23 alterego: hehe, great minds think alike Jul 20 17:32:33 alterego: thanks Jul 20 17:32:49 :) Jul 20 17:33:14 RST38h: alterego: nevertheless it's *odd*. I'd call it a BUG Jul 20 17:33:37 Well, I don't know if it's "odd" I don't know what the command does :) Jul 20 17:33:50 Anyhow, I use irssi running in a screen session on a remote server so .. Jul 20 17:33:50 DocScrutinizer: WONTFIX Jul 20 17:33:58 jacekowski: :-P Jul 20 17:34:10 The only thing that pisses me off is when the server goes down, which is usually a couple of times a month Jul 20 17:34:36 alterego: i have my own server Jul 20 17:34:52 19:34:51 up 49 days, 5:01, 1 user, load average: 0.04, 0.03, 0.00 Jul 20 17:34:57 jacekowski: I used to, then I got screwed over by my ISP and lost my job, so I can't really afford it anymore :( Jul 20 17:35:07 alterego: the command needs to be issued each time xchat is started, to stop that *annoying* blue LED blinking Jul 20 17:35:10 Yeah, I had uptimes of months too :( (boohoohoo) Jul 20 17:35:20 that happens each tijme there's a highlight in xchat Jul 20 17:35:29 find another job Jul 20 17:35:30 DocScrutinizer: ah, right, maemo specific option that triggers notification light, right :) Jul 20 17:35:43 DocScrutinizer: you can disable "other notifies" in the settings Jul 20 17:35:54 jacekowski: I want to, I just don't know what to do. And I really want to focus on mobile dev :/ Jul 20 17:36:12 Doc: Oh that one...I do think MCE dies every now and then, no other explanation Jul 20 17:36:14 kerio: don't see that Jul 20 17:36:14 I'd apply for Nokia or Qt if I thought they'd take me, but I don't think I'd be too interested in their projects. Jul 20 17:36:26 Or maybe Modest does turn it off after a while Jul 20 17:36:29 And they probably wouldn't take me, Jul 20 17:36:40 alterego: so you live off my taxes Jul 20 17:36:45 settings->notify signals or something Jul 20 17:36:48 alterego: go work in tesco Jul 20 17:36:49 it_IT here Jul 20 17:37:13 btw, is it normal that i removed the battery for like 10 seconds and it asked for the time&date? Jul 20 17:37:18 jacekowski: I'm not living off anyones taxes (yet) Jul 20 17:37:19 :/ Jul 20 17:37:43 jacekowski: but I've had enough tax contributions to feel happy enough living off of _my_taxes_ :P Jul 20 17:37:50 for a while. Jul 20 17:38:11 nah some nigger was living off your taxes Jul 20 17:38:15 kerio: depends. The backup batteries are general broken crap. Shouldn't happen Jul 20 17:38:21 :( Jul 20 17:38:23 :( :( :( Jul 20 17:38:28 i'll send it to nokia Jul 20 17:38:35 and now you are living off my and everyone else taxes Jul 20 17:39:01 kerio: sure Jul 20 17:39:08 will they fix it? Jul 20 17:39:13 should Jul 20 17:39:17 s/fix/substitute/ Jul 20 17:39:17 kerio meant: will they substitute it? Jul 20 17:39:23 and does it really matter? Jul 20 17:39:31 it's ot supposed to lose time/date on 10s bat removal Jul 20 17:39:31 it's plugged in atm Jul 20 17:39:37 hi guys Jul 20 17:39:53 jacekowski: I don't have any benifits, so no, I'm not living off of your anything :P Jul 20 17:39:59 jacekowski: are you even in the UK :P Jul 20 17:40:09 yes i am Jul 20 17:40:13 could I know who are the responsables of "Maemo Coding Competition" ? --> http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Coding_Competition_1 Jul 20 17:40:19 kerio: they will fix it, by replacing backup battery by an equally crappy one :-P Jul 20 17:40:23 :( Jul 20 17:40:28 DocScrutinizer: mine loses time as well Jul 20 17:40:33 i really hate you guys Jul 20 17:40:40 my n900 was perfect before i /joined #maemo Jul 20 17:40:54 X-Fade: from i386 rootfs: apt-get install liblocation0 Jul 20 17:41:01 fails Jul 20 17:41:01 now it's a buggy computer with a broken charging daemon and a lot of bugs Jul 20 17:41:08 because liblocation0 is not found Jul 20 17:41:14 tablet Jul 20 17:41:19 right Jul 20 17:41:21 is http://stage a special repo, or it's just a clone ? Jul 20 17:41:23 jacekowski: OM FR seems to use same batery, and we did a poll and found some 75% of devices had broken backup cells and didn't survive 30s of main bat removal Jul 20 17:41:28 But yeah, I'm not on any kind of benifits at the moment. Jul 20 17:41:37 So, keep your taxes Jul 20 17:42:00 well om was a design disaster Jul 20 17:42:19 i had to remove the battery because it was stuck - does that matter? Jul 20 17:42:25 maybe it's not the internal battery Jul 20 17:42:41 otoh keeping time/date over bat removal is really a low priority, tbh Jul 20 17:42:41 very unlikely Jul 20 17:43:11 I mean that's a device supposed to be always-online and there's such things like NTP Jul 20 17:43:42 well ntp will not sync if delta is too big Jul 20 17:44:01 right, except if you kick NTP's arse Jul 20 17:44:17 ntpdate --sync-the-fucking-clock-you-asshole Jul 20 17:44:28 lol Jul 20 17:44:34 ntpdate Jul 20 17:44:38 ntptime Jul 20 17:44:44 whatever it's called Jul 20 17:45:50 yay it resisted for 5 seconds or so Jul 20 17:46:16 what? unexpected reboot? Jul 20 17:46:18 :o Jul 20 17:46:23 he wasn't expecting my reboot Jul 20 17:52:24 I try to ask again: is anyone of you aware of the "Maemo Coding Competition" ?! Jul 20 17:53:15 nobody.... nice... Jul 20 17:53:27 kerio: (my n900 was perfect) would it help if I kick you, to 'fix' your N900 ? :-P Jul 20 17:53:27 wrote on maemo-community on Jul 3rd, no reply Jul 20 17:53:45 no responsables on the wiki page of the contest Jul 20 17:53:51 no advertise on planet maemo Jul 20 17:53:53 bah... Jul 20 17:54:12 Andy80: aware it exists but didnt follow closely Jul 20 17:54:44 DocScrutinizer: nah Jul 20 17:54:45 blessn900_0.31 seems to have now "demo mode" where you can guess if left or right half of picture is taken with bless enhancements XP Jul 20 17:54:48 the damage is permanent Jul 20 17:55:35 there needs to be a way to read and send text messages via cli, so i can just ssh eto my phone Jul 20 17:56:09 * DocScrutinizer wonders if can be bothered to give blesn900_0.31 a try, after abysmal results on 0.29 like documented there: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10031?sort=0 Jul 20 17:57:31 well a short check if it learned exif portrait from g-meter now... all I can be bothered to do Jul 20 18:02:02 bah, still underexposed dim pictures, and no portrait mode Jul 20 18:02:25 kudos Nokia, for PR1.2 genuine cam Jul 20 18:02:53 is it possible to show widgets and OGL on the screen without composition? Jul 20 18:03:09 Yeah, I didn't really think it was particularly good tbh Jul 20 18:03:16 LiraNuna: talking to me? Jul 20 18:03:21 to anyone Jul 20 18:03:35 LiraNuna: you can if you work around the compositor, egl? Jul 20 18:03:38 Forget what it's called .. Jul 20 18:03:39 ~nuke blessn900 Jul 20 18:03:40 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at blessn900 ... B☢☢M! Jul 20 18:03:46 But beware, it'll screw things up a bit. Jul 20 18:03:57 how does MicroB do it? Jul 20 18:04:14 MicroB do what? Jul 20 18:04:44 microb in full screen mode and widgets on bottom (location bar) Jul 20 18:04:54 and maintaining fast rendering speed Jul 20 18:06:13 microb is two processes Jul 20 18:06:18 a ui process and a rendering process Jul 20 18:06:23 ah Jul 20 18:06:39 screen rendering in microb is basically done by copying rendered tiles from the rendering process to the ui process Jul 20 18:06:47 although "copying" might be overstating it Jul 20 18:07:01 there were 3 or more impls of it during the development of microb for the n900 Jul 20 18:07:09 and i didn't pay much attn to which one stuck Jul 20 18:07:09 I see Jul 20 18:07:42 when there's an actual hildon toolbar visible, afaik it's a genuine gtk widget which means we aren't cheating there Jul 20 18:08:01 (video playback at fullscreen cheats) Jul 20 18:09:36 Andy80, there's a huge thread at TMO about the competition Jul 20 18:10:24 VDVsx: that 40 pages thread? Sorry... better if I don't reply you as I wish :P Jul 20 18:10:43 VDVsx: really.... do you think it's the right way to manage something? with a forum? Jul 20 18:11:06 Andy80, well go complain there and wait for the flames :P Jul 20 18:11:21 there's also a wiki page with the apps and prizes Jul 20 18:11:27 VDVsx: I asked informations that should be presente in the homepage/wiki of the contest. It's absurd I've to ask around or follow a 40 pages thread Jul 20 18:11:50 VDVsx: all that I found is this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Coding_Competition_1 Jul 20 18:11:54 and I added my application Jul 20 18:12:04 but there are lot of informations missing Jul 20 18:12:16 and most important: the RESPONSABLES of the contest Jul 20 18:12:20 Andy80, you understand that this is a community initiative, you can always help improve the things Jul 20 18:12:22 Andy80 and VDVsx. Jul 20 18:12:29 asking around all reply me: I don't know anything about it Jul 20 18:13:23 true I don't know much either :D Jul 20 18:14:27 VDVsx: I'll just wait and hope... the endline is tomorrow... I don't think there is much I can do now.... Jul 20 18:15:40 Andy80, well, if you've questions ask in the TMO thread, the responsibles for the competition are there, afaik Jul 20 18:17:16 VDVsx: my hopinion? please reduce the karma gained from tmo... it will drastically reduce the rumor -.- Jul 20 18:17:56 Andy80, rumor ? :D Jul 20 18:18:06 sorry... the noise Jul 20 18:18:12 well... you understand :P Jul 20 18:19:10 VDVsx: I mean... lot of peple just talking an talking just to increase the karma. This is my sensation about tmo Jul 20 18:19:17 not all people of course Jul 20 18:19:42 Andy80, not at all IMO, its a forum, forums are like that Jul 20 18:20:04 except karma is kinda useless atm Jul 20 18:20:08 and karma is not important as was in the past Jul 20 18:20:13 ^ Jul 20 18:20:30 VDVsx: why is not important anymore? Jul 20 18:21:10 maybe because it's difficoult to track it across two community (maemo + meego)? Jul 20 18:21:49 Andy80, well, at least I heard that there isnt another maemo device, nor maemo conference, so... is important for the 'other things' only Jul 20 18:21:55 i guess this will sound like a ridiculous question, but - does a real N900 have a direction pad, or just a keyboard with arrow keys? i.e. does it look like http://www.allreviews.com/cell-phones/files/2010/01/Nokia-N900.jpg ? Jul 20 18:22:11 i think there are some mislabelled N810 pictures on the internet, and also the chinese ripoff pictures, so i'm confused Jul 20 18:22:23 LjL, thats a n810 Jul 20 18:22:42 VDVsx: i see. so, only three rows of keys and that's it on a 900? Jul 20 18:22:54 LjL, yup Jul 20 18:23:20 LjL, http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ Jul 20 18:24:01 VDVsx: I feel quite lost about our community and the future... Jul 20 18:24:02 thanks for clearing this up Jul 20 18:34:36 bah Jul 20 18:35:14 python2.5 is so outdated Jul 20 18:42:12 Does someone know if/how it's possible to enable the onscreen-keyboard in Qt applications? ... mh I don't even know if the onscreen keyboard even works in portrait mode. Jul 20 18:48:04 mh nevermind. just had to enable it in the settings. but it doesn't do portrait mode. that is kinda poor. it's the only place where it's really needed because in landscape mode you have a real keyboard :< Jul 20 18:49:33 hehe Jul 20 18:50:13 anyway, microb in portrait switches to landscape when vkbd is started Jul 20 18:50:39 yeah, same with my little app. works in portrait, but if you click a field, it switches to landscape Jul 20 18:50:43 how daft Jul 20 18:50:48 can't see any semi-usable vkbd for portrait Jul 20 18:51:48 muhaha, xchat autoswitches to portrait mode :-P Jul 20 18:52:14 and xterm Jul 20 18:52:23 eeew Jul 20 18:54:38 and all are switching back to landscape when vkbd is started Jul 20 18:55:11 I don't understand why people even use the vkbd. Jul 20 18:55:20 today was the first time I ever saw it. never had it enabled Jul 20 18:55:30 as probably there is something in vkbd that rightfully claims it won't work in portrait, and forces screen back to landscape Jul 20 19:04:55 Greetings. What is used for "find" and "locate" on n900? Jul 20 19:07:09 ...either "find" or "locate" ..? (Don't seem to have search command to pass to grep on n900...?) Jul 20 19:07:23 install findutils Jul 20 19:07:37 i thought find was in busybox though Jul 20 19:08:08 Stskeeps: Thanks! after install, what commands are best/available? Jul 20 19:08:24 find? :P Jul 20 19:12:38 messybox find sucks! Jul 20 19:14:14 DoScrutinizer51: I agree. Is "locate" available. Something to pass to grep Jul 20 19:15:56 DoScrutinizer51: If I install bash3 are there more command options in Fremantle? Jul 20 19:22:39 hi again, everyone! Jul 20 19:30:04 hi Jul 20 19:37:40 'lo Jul 20 19:45:22 locate is available, but it requires replacing /usr/bin/find with gnu find (which also is available) Jul 20 19:48:11 findutils will do it for you Jul 20 19:59:56 findutils comes with find, locate, and updatedb, afaik Jul 20 20:00:56 you'll need to care about updatedb yourself, as it won't get an entry in crontab (there is no crontab on maemo :-P) Jul 20 20:02:47 for further sanitation you may want to install coreutils-deb, less, another few according to your preferences Jul 20 20:02:57 mandb Jul 20 20:03:02 :-P Jul 20 20:03:19 ooh coreutils Jul 20 20:03:30 i just installed .*-gnu Jul 20 20:04:17 err, maybe it was coreutils-gnu, not -deb Jul 20 20:04:44 and it's man-db-n900 Jul 20 20:06:11 so s/RTFM/(apt-get install man-db-n900 &&)RTFM!/ :-D Jul 20 20:06:12 Does anyone knows what the purpose of the group option in the ussd widget? Jul 20 20:07:02 sezuan: screw USSD widget. Get starhash-enabler Jul 20 20:08:26 sezuan: nah. forget that comment. Actually *widget* may be really useful still Jul 20 20:08:49 :) Jul 20 20:10:25 nevertheless you probably want to get starhash-enabler :-D Jul 20 20:10:28 oh lord, lord, lord, ebay is getting me, i know i'll eventually buy both an N900 and a Milestone ;( Jul 20 20:11:31 LjL: yeah, have fun with that chinese mockup Jul 20 20:11:38 lbt, any news? Jul 20 20:11:45 DocScrutinizer :( Jul 20 20:12:04 DocScrutinizer: but but they have a lot of good feedbacks! Jul 20 20:12:15 lol Jul 20 20:12:40 everybody and his dog has 99.8% good feedback Jul 20 20:12:48 100% ;( Jul 20 20:13:02 even more suspicious Jul 20 20:13:22 "This is the best seller for N900-like phones", "Thanks! I got my N900-like in no time, and it even does MMS!" Jul 20 20:13:25 paypal? Jul 20 20:13:38 muhaha Jul 20 20:13:57 DocScrutinizer: he even says it's locked to Orange! why would he if it's not genuine ;( Jul 20 20:14:11 and even java, and has amazing 64MB storage Jul 20 20:14:12 yeah takes paypal Jul 20 20:14:33 well then get it Jul 20 20:14:45 by the way, is it easy to unlock from the Orange it's apparently locked to? Jul 20 20:14:50 ask for ser# Jul 20 20:15:13 it never is locked to anyrhing afaik Jul 20 20:15:18 DocScrutinizer: to check it's genuine, or to unlock? Jul 20 20:15:22 oh. then that's weird Jul 20 20:15:41 anybody heard of a simlocked N900? Jul 20 20:16:03 or operator-locked Jul 20 20:16:09 there's a thing in the settings to enter operator unlock code Jul 20 20:16:21 duh??? Jul 20 20:16:32 I thought that's PUK Jul 20 20:17:00 i did find something (not much) on google about unlocking N900, it's little enough it might just be confused people though Jul 20 20:17:35 wouldn't any sim/operator lock most probably vanish on cellmo-FW-update? (I *know* there _are_ ways to update modem firmware and still keep locks) Jul 20 20:17:47 http://hyfeno.com/unlock-nokia-n900/ specifically Jul 20 20:19:18 yo, settings menu :-S "enter code to unlock operator lock" Jul 20 20:21:08 DocScrutinizer: do you say ask for serial# to unlock, or to verify it's genuine? Jul 20 20:21:26 second one Jul 20 20:21:41 also, where is the serial number, so he doesn't answer "i don't know" and the auction is about to run out Jul 20 20:23:15 hey guys Jul 20 20:23:19 Open battery door, remove battery, serial # and imei is in the battery bay Jul 20 20:23:32 thanks Jul 20 20:23:43 DocScrutinizer: i always wondered - what's that button for? Jul 20 20:23:45 does anyone feel like giving a test drive to the latest Sticky Notes prerelase before it hits extras-devel? Jul 20 20:23:51 LjL: if he's serious, he'll send a photo Jul 20 20:23:59 I would need a few volunteers before I make a public release Jul 20 20:24:15 kerio: button? Jul 20 20:24:28 the "enter code to unlock" thingy Jul 20 20:24:37 kerio: aah yup Jul 20 20:24:45 it's a button that opens up a textbox, but a button nonetheless Jul 20 20:24:55 wonder if it's cellmo or maybe device lock Jul 20 20:25:07 DocScrutinizer: by the way, i was also considering a "N900" on eBay Announcements (or whatever it's called in english). it was interesting because it claimed the seller was in Milan, which is where i live, but when i asked whether i could pick it up there, he told me "I live in Rimini because of my job, could you pick up there, or shall I ship it by mail"? Jul 20 20:25:08 is someone is interested, just pm me, I'll be right back Jul 20 20:25:20 DocScrutinizer: now i don't know exactly how far Rimini is from Milan, but... far enough. Jul 20 20:25:35 bet he just wanted me to answer "ok, mail it" Jul 20 20:25:58 LjL: 350km Jul 20 20:26:04 so yeah Jul 20 20:26:06 thanks ;) Jul 20 20:26:11 use ebay classic Jul 20 20:26:32 LjL: tell him "yes, tomorrow" and when he agrees ask him to mail as your car broke Jul 20 20:26:41 yeah i tried ebay announcements too because there are many more Milestones sold thre from Italy and Milan specifically Jul 20 20:26:59 DocScrutinizer: do you think he'd agree? i think he would not reply. Jul 20 20:27:03 not worth it imo Jul 20 20:27:19 LjL: then it's a clear mater you should forget it Jul 20 20:27:42 oh wtf Jul 20 20:27:49 apt is being a little bitch Jul 20 20:27:55 Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y Jul 20 20:27:55 Abort. Jul 20 20:27:57 always been Jul 20 20:28:03 yeah i just wanted to mention it because it seemed fun. listing says Milan, then he goes "oh by the way i'm not in milan, i'm on the other side of the country, that's ok with you right?" Jul 20 20:28:06 and that's with ssh Jul 20 20:28:10 from my computer Jul 20 20:28:20 oh wtf Jul 20 20:28:28 s (for "sì" - yes in italian) works Jul 20 20:28:31 :/ Jul 20 20:28:34 ... Jul 20 20:28:41 FUCK YOU DPKG-RECONFIGURE LOCALES Jul 20 20:29:12 i'm pretty sure i can type either y or s on my computer, here Jul 20 20:29:45 LjL: tell him you're in rmini tomorrow, if he answers that's fine with him, go for it and ask maling. If he doesn't answer, forget about it Jul 20 20:30:46 DocScrutinizer: well, to be honest even if he answers ok i'm not really keep on then going for mailing outside of ebay classic. no paypal, dubious post service in italy... Jul 20 20:31:09 hmm, your cup of tea Jul 20 20:31:36 i think i'll either go for someone who's actually in milan and i can meet, or for paypal protection Jul 20 20:32:04 telescope app switcher looks nice on n810 Jul 20 20:32:05 when I checked ~3 months ago, I couldn't find a single offer that's been worth it. Better buy a new one and pay ~50 bucks more Jul 20 20:32:39 odds are you get a worn out device of a mad overclocker anyway Jul 20 20:33:30 DocScrutinizer: i bought mine for 350€, used Jul 20 20:33:35 new it's still 500€+ here Jul 20 20:33:41 then when it segfaults the shit out of maemo after 3 months of usage, you probably find out it's not even covered by any warranty Jul 20 20:34:11 an apt-cache search man returns 993 results Jul 20 20:34:16 apt sucks Jul 20 20:34:17 :( Jul 20 20:34:29 kerio: you suck Jul 20 20:34:52 i do Jul 20 20:34:58 man, you suck (and apt-cache search probably will find this line in the irclogs) Jul 20 20:35:23 apt-cache search mandb Jul 20 20:35:41 or ehatever you are after Jul 20 20:35:49 whatever* Jul 20 20:35:53 actually if you install crash reporter you probably notice it segfaults like hell without any overclock. and actually it is the curse of ALL moblie devices: don't know for iPhone, but WM, Symbian and Android software crashes all the time, it is just builtin "restart and recovery" mechanisms make that almost invisible. Don't know what is the reason. Jul 20 20:36:26 Arkenoi: user interfaces are meant to trick the user into thinking he's using an awesome $foo Jul 20 20:36:33 Arkenoi: you actually did it?? Jul 20 20:37:27 DocScrutinizer, i had crash reporter installed from the very beginning, long before i overclocked, and on two different devices, Almost everyday this thing or that crashes for me. Jul 20 20:37:39 nidO: what does "clearance range" mean by the way? i checked mobiles.co.uk earlier but am a bit confused. do you need to make a contract or something? Jul 20 20:37:40 Sometimes several times a day Jul 20 20:38:00 Arkenoi: we are pretty aware on how maemo does restart of critical processes. we know how to even look into logs about such evens. And I know for sure there's no such thing like hidden restart&recover for most apps anyway Jul 20 20:38:37 well, hildon-desktop is the current crash leader i think Jul 20 20:38:49 yep, granted Jul 20 20:38:52 tracker process does that pretty "well" also Jul 20 20:39:21 Arkenoi: so you overclocked? Jul 20 20:39:22 * DocScrutinizer likes to think tracker beter dies once and for all times... :-P Jul 20 20:39:22 browserd Jul 20 20:39:24 etc Jul 20 20:39:50 ~crash tracker Jul 20 20:39:51 * infobot jams a stick in tracker's spokes Jul 20 20:39:54 kerio: yep, no difference in crash rate yet ;-) Jul 20 20:40:15 Arkenoi: what usually crashes for people is hildon-home, not hildon-desktop Jul 20 20:40:21 ~kill tracker Jul 20 20:40:22 nah, good evening guys :) Jul 20 20:40:23 * infobot shoots a hyper-charged anti-neutron gun at tracker Jul 20 20:40:30 ~nuke tracker Jul 20 20:40:31 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at tracker ... B☢☢M! Jul 20 20:40:36 ~burn hildon-home Jul 20 20:40:37 * infobot pours gasoline all over hildon-home, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Jul 20 20:41:58 LjL: it's just their end-of-line devices they want to get rid of, basically Jul 20 20:42:37 LjL: you have to buy it on an o2 pay-as-you-go basis which means you get a sim with it and basically have to buy £10 of call credit along with the phone, but you're not actually tied into any contract Jul 20 20:43:13 but sim-locked Jul 20 20:43:16 no Jul 20 20:43:18 ??? Jul 20 20:43:31 afaik there is no method of sim-locking n900's anyway? Jul 20 20:43:41 so WTF is selling simlocked N900? Jul 20 20:44:11 iv never seen a sim-locked one Jul 20 20:44:13 err, Orange -.- Jul 20 20:44:55 [2010-07-20 22:14:45] by the way, is it easy to unlock from the Orange it's apparently locked to? Jul 20 20:45:21 beats me, mobiles.co.uk sell it with o2 anyway, not orange Jul 20 20:45:25 [2010-07-20 22:19:18] yo, settings menu :-S "enter code to unlock operator lock" Jul 20 20:47:46 hello Jul 20 20:53:17 I would expect the N900 to be possible to sim lock just as any other phone. That's in the GSM/3G baseband part, not Linux. Jul 20 20:53:43 what's the difference when one talks about "baseband" and "GSM stack"? Jul 20 20:53:55 A GSM stack is what runs on the baseband CPU. Jul 20 20:54:18 baseband is related to radio somehow. Jul 20 20:54:26 but wasn't the GSM stack going to be free for the N900? that would seem weird wrt regulations Jul 20 20:54:59 The GSM stack is closed. Even the phone app is, but can be replaced. Jul 20 20:55:26 replacing the GSM stack may be possible as well, but completely undocumented. Jul 20 20:56:25 plus that the only free availabe GSM stack isn't very complete, or implementing any 3G features yet from what I remember.. Jul 20 20:57:05 Replacing the GSm stack is legally impossible. Jul 20 20:57:15 If you're selling them in the uk that is. Jul 20 20:57:24 The baseband and GSM stack run on a seperate processor Jul 20 20:57:31 it's got 16M RAM, 4M ROm Jul 20 20:57:58 DocScrutinizer: well so the auction is about to end and he still hasn't replied to my question, so i guess no go (although it's probably just i asked the questions way too late) Jul 20 20:58:16 SpeedEvil: i thought someone here though told me open stack was being "worked on" or something, not sure whether in Maemo or MeeGo Jul 20 20:58:25 It's not. Jul 20 20:58:34 where's dpkg-reconfigure? Jul 20 20:58:34 :o Jul 20 20:58:52 The bit that talks to the modem chip is being worked on. Jul 20 20:58:56 sold separately Jul 20 20:59:04 seriously Jul 20 20:59:10 i just hate that Jul 20 20:59:10 i clearly remember using it some time ago Jul 20 20:59:11 LjL: The only free GSM stack I know of is OsmocomBB. http://bb.osmocom.org/trac Jul 20 20:59:12 LjL: no open gsm stack on N900 or any other phone Jul 20 20:59:14 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#Debug_ports Jul 20 20:59:18 This however is not anything directly to do with the GSM stack Jul 20 20:59:18 i had info there Jul 20 20:59:21 on the picture Jul 20 20:59:27 which pin is a TX Jul 20 20:59:38 LjL: well, basically (if you don't count openBB on calypso) Jul 20 20:59:41 but somebody edited it to move that info to text Jul 20 20:59:46 that J2000 is serial Jul 20 20:59:51 which gives no info to anybody Jul 20 21:00:05 revert Jul 20 21:00:54 jacekowski: I still understand what is said.. but only because I also seen the other picture where pins are numbered.. Jul 20 21:01:01 DocScrutinizer: it went for a good price (the same as it was when i started talking about it) :( http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110561141457 - though i think at the very least, you'd have something not too good to say about the pictures Jul 20 21:02:08 can you get neighboring cell information (signal strength) on the N900? Jul 20 21:02:49 LjL: you can Jul 20 21:02:54 how? Jul 20 21:02:57 LjL: if you know how to ask rapuyama for it Jul 20 21:03:00 lol Jul 20 21:03:01 jacekowski: Not sure it was intentional by Rambo to edit the picture there. Jul 20 21:03:19 and or gazoo Jul 20 21:03:28 rapuyama? O.o i don't get your injokes :P Jul 20 21:03:42 gazoo and rapuyama are chips making up the modme Jul 20 21:03:47 simlock vodafone - screwit Jul 20 21:04:07 oh Jul 20 21:04:37 iirc there is GSM AT codes for asking cell information. Just hook up a terminal to the GSM modem and ask... Jul 20 21:04:48 the modem doesn't talk AT Jul 20 21:04:58 It doesn't? Jul 20 21:04:59 it does Jul 20 21:05:01 i saw it does Jul 20 21:05:08 somebody was talking AT to it Jul 20 21:05:09 Pretty sure it does on the UART channel. Jul 20 21:05:29 There's a binary daemon in maemo that talks AT and then talks whatever with the modme Jul 20 21:05:30 beeeeep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep beeeeeep bbpebpebpeppebpbepbpbpepbpebpepbepbpepbpbpebpepbeb Jul 20 21:05:53 jacekowski: nope. gazoo is rapuyama's PMU Jul 20 21:05:57 * lcuk stops talking zx spectrum Jul 20 21:05:57 basically Jul 20 21:06:09 ah, pnatd. Phonet AT Daemon Jul 20 21:06:35 fsck pnatd Jul 20 21:06:43 doesn't even know ^C Jul 20 21:06:57 useless piece of crap Jul 20 21:07:23 pnatd does not support most interesting commands Jul 20 21:07:33 Android has APIs for requesting neighboring cell info, but apparently, on a lot of phones (if not all) it returns nothing Jul 20 21:07:45 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Phone Jul 20 21:07:47 see that Jul 20 21:07:57 AT commands I found to work Jul 20 21:08:13 hmm... why isn't apt in italian now? Jul 20 21:08:37 pnatd is completely utterly useless worthless crap useful for exactly nothing but do your daily dose of upset Jul 20 21:09:00 and where the hell is dpkg-reconfigure Jul 20 21:09:24 pnatd isn't useless, just needs more command handling :P Jul 20 21:09:54 the above list is quite sparse :( Jul 20 21:09:57 pnatd is just there to make bluetooth "tethering" work :) Jul 20 21:10:16 And ^C might be being ignored for good reason ... Jul 20 21:10:24 SpeedEvil: yes, there's alsi ATI2, ATI3 etc :-P Jul 20 21:10:30 also Jul 20 21:10:48 It can't even send SMSs Jul 20 21:10:57 alterego: thought about that, but for my life can't find the good reason Jul 20 21:11:33 Well it's supposed to be pretending to be a tty/serial port... Jul 20 21:11:36 try ^D ;-D Jul 20 21:11:53 tzz Jul 20 21:11:58 I guess I did Jul 20 21:12:31 I guess I tried about all possible shit, incl ~. and ... Jul 20 21:12:38 exit Jul 20 21:12:47 dunno what Jul 20 21:13:44 also has no line editing discipline Jul 20 21:13:48 ^\ ? Jul 20 21:13:58 uh? Jul 20 21:14:01 which might tell us something, if only I knew what Jul 20 21:14:09 Hmm.. what's the phone app called? Jul 20 21:14:14 ShadowJK: tried that as well iirc Jul 20 21:14:19 callui Jul 20 21:14:26 hno: callui Jul 20 21:14:35 I don't remember my dialup modem having line editing :) Jul 20 21:14:36 cellmo-caller-ui or something like that Jul 20 21:15:07 killall -9 rtcom-call-ui Jul 20 21:15:12 and you'll see Jul 20 21:15:42 ShadowJK: ctrl-h or bs usually worked in my hardware modems Jul 20 21:15:59 not on pnatd Jul 20 21:16:06 aah bs, yes Jul 20 21:16:25 though... Jul 20 21:16:35 srrrrewitt Jul 20 21:16:49 * lcuk is freaked out still Jul 20 21:17:51 does maemo use "ohm" currently? Jul 20 21:18:00 nope, no bs, no ^D Jul 20 21:18:13 no ^\ Jul 20 21:18:40 DocScrutinizer, "no" to me? Jul 20 21:18:43 ^h seems to work Jul 20 21:18:49 damnit, thought pnatd would work with nc -l :) Jul 20 21:19:07 trip0: nope, no idea what you said Jul 20 21:19:22 oh, okay Jul 20 21:19:56 ohm like kill app when runaway? seems I heard about that on maemo Jul 20 21:20:36 hmm... looks like ohm is running on my n900... Jul 20 21:20:44 toldya Jul 20 21:20:54 just not too sure what it does Jul 20 21:20:57 OpenHardwareManager Jul 20 21:21:14 it's stupposed to do things like pause the player when an incoming call comes in Jul 20 21:21:23 mhhhhm Jul 20 21:21:59 i'm trying to figure out how "profile" ties into it for meego Jul 20 21:22:10 seemed to remember some max mem usage parameters with ohm when to kill apps Jul 20 21:22:18 maybe I dreamt it Jul 20 21:22:35 as you'd think that's ulimit Jul 20 21:22:49 oh, so ohm also does ulimit stuff? Jul 20 21:22:52 ...interesting Jul 20 21:22:56 :P Jul 20 21:24:05 nah, maybe it was ulimit *for* ohm, somewhere in nitscripts Jul 20 21:24:28 nvm Jul 20 21:25:02 it's really harder than you'd think - to know *everything* Jul 20 21:25:43 atfuckerdv hljadv hljda lhdO-HEPHIÄ Jul 20 21:25:45 ERROR Jul 20 21:26:04 FU LOL Jul 20 21:26:18 ^D^D^D^C^\DIE_BASTARD! Jul 20 21:26:43 * DocScrutinizer tears down ssh session with pnatd Jul 20 21:41:31 meh Jul 20 21:41:35 Phonet AT commands data port (phonet-at v0.7.6) Jul 20 21:41:37 $Id: kat.c 11225 2008-08-06 13:59:49Z redenisc $ Jul 20 21:42:48 -rwsr-sr-x 1 root root 12676 Aug 27 2009 /usr/bin/pnatd Jul 20 21:43:08 doesn't look too smart or even large enough for a decent AT interpreter Jul 20 21:43:29 DocScrutinizer: 2009 bytes, just disassemble it Jul 20 21:43:41 check the perms ! XP Jul 20 21:44:13 the modem node must be read/write only by root I guess Jul 20 21:44:56 sure, but why is user supposed to have unrestricted access to modem AT interface? Jul 20 21:46:07 kerio: jacekowski is the divine RE disassembler wizard extraordinaire here :-D Jul 20 21:46:38 jacekowski: go do your magic Jul 20 21:46:57 tbh I'd not even know how to disassemble an arm binary, off top of my head and out of the box Jul 20 21:47:00 it's just a wrapper Jul 20 21:47:06 there is probably a /usr/bin/pnatd.launch Jul 20 21:47:23 around phonet, sure Jul 20 21:47:31 ooh Jul 20 21:47:50 nope Jul 20 21:50:00 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# find /usr/bin/ /usr/sbin/ /bin /sbin /lib/ /var/lib/ /usr/lib* -name '*pnat*' Jul 20 21:50:02 /usr/bin/pnatd Jul 20 21:50:54 i have a question: i want to use rsync to sync my netbooks music to my n900. however, if i use usb mass storage mode i get 'read only fs' errors. wlan is really to slow to do the sync. any ideas? Jul 20 21:51:45 i thought about usb networking or something like this, possible? Jul 20 21:52:06 not better than wlan I'd guess Jul 20 21:52:18 hrm, okay... Jul 20 21:52:48 just courious: would i have the same problem if the fat-partition that holds the music wouldn't be fat32? Jul 20 21:53:10 i guess it would be the same problem with ext3 because the phone sets the fs to ro, right? Jul 20 21:53:11 hmm rsync is a tad hard, between different filesystems I guess Jul 20 21:53:25 nah it's fine Jul 20 21:53:26 nope Jul 20 21:53:27 scp over usbnet is faster Jul 20 21:53:34 tarpipe Jul 20 21:53:40 --modify-window 1 is nice for vfat though Jul 20 21:53:48 ShadowJK: i have this Jul 20 21:54:01 Still. Jul 20 21:54:07 well okay, i really should think about mkfs.ext3 for my userdata then.. Jul 20 21:54:17 thanks for the input Jul 20 21:54:27 A meg and a half a second - wifi - will move 5G/hou Jul 20 21:54:27 r Jul 20 21:54:30 why not just cp the whole shit? Jul 20 21:54:45 if you're in mass storage mode anyway Jul 20 21:54:48 or 40G/night Jul 20 21:54:54 maemo doesn't take kindly to mkfs.ext3 on the MyDocs partition :/ Jul 20 21:55:11 DocScrutinizer: because i sometimes just edit tags here and there on my netbook and i don't want to copy all the stuff nearly daily Jul 20 21:55:16 yeah, deprecated Jul 20 21:55:24 instead i'll rsync the changes in a minute and be done. Jul 20 21:55:28 so what do we want to know? Jul 20 21:55:39 steinex: What I did Jul 20 21:55:45 why is pnatd such a drag Jul 20 21:55:52 steinex: Tarred up whole contents of MyDocs onto /home Jul 20 21:56:17 or uSD Jul 20 21:56:23 steinex: fdisked to remove mydocs - with usb mass storage enabled so it unmounts on the local side. Jul 20 21:56:45 recreate mydocs as a vfat of 4G on thesame partition number Jul 20 21:56:54 make a ext3 partition in the extra space Jul 20 21:57:02 mount that on /home/user/data Jul 20 21:57:07 jacekowski: honestly, maybe there's some itsy bits we could learn from pnatd Jul 20 21:57:11 SpeedEvil: yeah, thats something i plan to do now Jul 20 21:57:30 tell tracker to utterly ignore /data - but to track /data/sounds and /data/video Jul 20 21:57:30 nite all, sweet dreams Jul 20 21:57:38 this means that media player and stuff works Jul 20 21:58:18 ask oncle SpeedEvil :-) Jul 20 21:58:19 I wonder if the block device itelf gets exported read-only, or if the hist mounts it readonly due to fs errors Jul 20 21:58:28 /usr/lib/libisi.so.1 Jul 20 21:58:32 any info on that lib? Jul 20 21:59:12 ShadowJK: wtf is r/o? usb mass storage? Jul 20 21:59:23 does the google talk/jabber on the n900 support video call? Jul 20 21:59:34 jacekowski: nope Jul 20 21:59:48 DocScrutinizer, that's what he said Jul 20 21:59:48 pigeon: yes Jul 20 21:59:57 shouldn't Jul 20 22:00:05 it'd be utterly worthless Jul 20 22:00:12 jacekowski: cool, thanks. Jul 20 22:00:14 i have a question: i want to use rsync to sync my netbooks music to my n900. however, if i use usb mass storage mode i get 'read only fs' errors. wlan is really to slow to do the sync. any ideas? Jul 20 22:00:30 hmmm Jul 20 22:00:41 DocScrutinizer: it looks like all phonet shit is done in that libisi Jul 20 22:00:47 pnatd* Jul 20 22:01:02 I'd not believe that until I read detailed errormsg Jul 20 22:01:22 That oFono module that talks to Nokia modems is called isimodem iirc Jul 20 22:01:26 jacekowski: phonet sounds about right Jul 20 22:01:37 yes Jul 20 22:01:44 oFono? Jul 20 22:01:49 knew I heard it somewhere, thanks ShadowJK Jul 20 22:02:02 omg Jul 20 22:02:06 my brain just melted Jul 20 22:02:26 libisi is what pnatd uses. Jul 20 22:02:43 forgot what it means though :) Jul 20 22:03:03 libisi is probably what phonet lives in (the older sibling of nborn ofono) Jul 20 22:03:14 ofono is a replacement yeah Jul 20 22:03:29 for a closed kernel module/s and isi Jul 20 22:03:53 ISI library is for sending/receiving and coding/decoding ISI messages. This package contains runtime support for using libisi together with Glib. Jul 20 22:03:54 I didnt know there was a closed kernel module :) Jul 20 22:03:59 wtf is isi Jul 20 22:04:00 head we hot no closed kernel modules Jul 20 22:04:04 got* Jul 20 22:04:18 isi is easy :-P Jul 20 22:05:02 phonet is the kernel module I belive Jul 20 22:05:04 Stskeeps: any enlightening words? Jul 20 22:05:16 phonet kernel drivers are opensource Jul 20 22:05:26 Oh cool Jul 20 22:05:31 and libisi is the closed part Jul 20 22:05:37 Right Jul 20 22:05:38 is pnatd lifeguarded? Jul 20 22:05:39 I'd guess Jul 20 22:05:42 but they're not interesting Jul 20 22:05:42 just message passing iirc Jul 20 22:05:51 jacekowski: wut? Jul 20 22:06:04 dsme lifeguard Jul 20 22:06:05 Yeah, I think I looked at the symbols once and it was basically ofono Jul 20 22:06:10 hmm, nvm Jul 20 22:06:11 * DocScrutinizer shoots down pnatd with a railgun Jul 20 22:06:17 pnatd doesnt run typically Jul 20 22:06:21 it doesn't look like it's communicating with dsme Jul 20 22:06:41 it's normally started by bluez on incomming DUN connection on bluetooth Jul 20 22:06:49 Anyone got pnatd working with netcat? :) Jul 20 22:06:53 to talk AT with the DUN client Jul 20 22:07:42 muhaha, so it should at least know atd*9**fsckmegntly# Jul 20 22:07:52 I thought it was used for usb modem Jul 20 22:07:59 bt is thir party :P Jul 20 22:08:23 oh yeah usb modem too Jul 20 22:08:57 you mean primarily, BT DUN is third party ... Jul 20 22:09:00 bt tethering enabler is almost just uncommenting it in the conf ;p Jul 20 22:09:10 Oh really? Jul 20 22:10:01 I suppose it's just adding a bt service and rfcomm listening and invoking pnatd Jul 20 22:11:20 exec rfcomm -S -- listen -1 1 /usr/bin/pnatd '{}' Jul 20 22:11:46 exec rfcomm?? what a cruft is that? Jul 20 22:12:14 from the upstart script Jul 20 22:12:17 aah, suppose it's upstart Jul 20 22:12:35 :-D Jul 20 22:12:36 also a second line to advertise dun on sdp Jul 20 22:14:02 ShadowJK: so it's not config then, you're just using upstart to run rfcomm and sdptool heh Jul 20 22:14:19 Admittedly I'd probably do it the same .. Jul 20 22:14:39 I would auto select the channel though Jul 20 22:15:31 * DocScrutinizer muses over rfcomm and sdptool Jul 20 22:15:47 DocScrutinizer: they're fun. Jul 20 22:15:48 meh, man rfcomm : man : not found Jul 20 22:16:38 I've got a bluetooth to RS232 adapter, can work as host or slave. Jul 20 22:16:43 mhm --help always comes handy Jul 20 22:17:12 So I can actually use my N900 as a modem for an old machine with RS232 port Jul 20 22:17:14 alterego: what was the price? Jul 20 22:17:21 * Arkenoi wants one too Jul 20 22:17:24 Services: Jul 20 22:17:26 DID SP DUN LAN FAX OPUSH FTP PRINT HS HSAG HF HFAG SAP PBAP NAP Jul 20 22:17:27 GN PANU HCRP HID KEYB WIIMOTE CIP CTP A2SRC A2SNK AVRCT AVRTG Jul 20 22:17:29 UDIUE UDITE SEMCHLA SR1 SYNCML SYNCMLSERV ACTIVESYNC HOTSYNC Jul 20 22:17:30 PALMOS NOKID PCSUITE NFTP NSYNCML NGAGE APPLE ISYNC Jul 20 22:17:32 WTF Jul 20 22:17:33 missing Jul 20 22:17:38 Hah Jul 20 22:18:00 If you're interested SP is serial device. Jul 20 22:18:21 You can use: sdptool search SP Jul 20 22:18:31 to find BT devices with serial ports. Jul 20 22:18:40 gnhnhn Jul 20 22:19:12 * DocScrutinizer mutates to MrHacker Jul 20 22:20:03 uh oh Jul 20 22:20:12 hci* are also useful Jul 20 22:20:19 lookatthatshit! APPLE ISYNC Jul 20 22:20:19 hcitool scan Jul 20 22:20:45 I know hcitool Jul 20 22:21:48 Do we have a BT PAN solution for the N900? Jul 20 22:22:11 was indispensable with Openmoko FR BT Jul 20 22:22:45 alterego: thought so Jul 20 22:23:31 hrm Jul 20 22:23:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles#PAN **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 20 22:30:09 2010 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 20 23:10:16 2010 Jul 20 23:10:20 * DocScrutinizer requests rapport about completeness of personell from chief of bat army Jul 20 23:12:48 so what's the problem with pnatd anyways? Jul 20 23:13:04 because it looks like it's just stupid interface between pty and phonet using libisi Jul 20 23:13:09 it's stupid, and it doesn't honor ^C Jul 20 23:13:24 because it takes over controlling terminal Jul 20 23:13:29 yep Jul 20 23:13:34 pnatd -h Jul 20 23:13:45 errwut? Jul 20 23:13:57 if you would kill it there will be no controlling terminal anymore Jul 20 23:14:16 it'll be just dead terminal Jul 20 23:14:31 it's broken by design Jul 20 23:14:36 but try pnatd -h Jul 20 23:15:14 pnatd --help just tells me pnatd is ... BS Jul 20 23:15:53 Usage: pnatd [/dev/ | -p] [-r] Jul 20 23:15:53 Open a TTY line and handle AT commands from it using Phonet. Jul 20 23:15:59 -p create a pseudo-terminal instead of opening an existing terminal Jul 20 23:15:59 -r restart whenever the terminal is hung up (until fatal error) Jul 20 23:15:59 -V print version informations and exit Jul 20 23:16:18 so what? Jul 20 23:16:31 can multiple copies of pnatd be run at once? Jul 20 23:16:36 yep Jul 20 23:16:47 OoooooH Jul 20 23:16:48 it looks like phonet and rapuyama can deal with it Jul 20 23:17:01 so multiple clients can talk to modem Jul 20 23:17:07 you bet they will get confused eventually Jul 20 23:17:27 every client get's unique identifier Jul 20 23:17:52 mhm, and what'll happen if two calls placed concurrently Jul 20 23:17:53 ? Jul 20 23:18:08 even data calls? Jul 20 23:18:12 hmm? Jul 20 23:18:19 cellmo can handle it Jul 20 23:18:23 userland can't Jul 20 23:18:25 bwahaha Jul 20 23:18:50 but data and voice at the same time is possible with current userland Jul 20 23:18:52 cellmo can *not* handle two concurrent data transmissions Jul 20 23:19:41 at least if they are of same type Jul 20 23:19:52 either GPRS or CSD Jul 20 23:20:18 probably a CSD and a GPRS data connection can live concurrently Jul 20 23:20:53 wait, what Jul 20 23:20:58 two concurrent calls? Jul 20 23:21:26 kerio: see? it sounds as impossible as it is Jul 20 23:23:53 usually on a modem you have methods like mux0710 to open up to 4 channels, each of them acting like a individual AT interpreter. But still you can't do things that the stack doesn't support Jul 20 23:25:08 um, on symbian the modem can handle two concurrent data connections fine Jul 20 23:25:30 I honestly doubt that Jul 20 23:25:31 (but when I was roaming in germany on vodafone, vodafone only allowed one data) Jul 20 23:26:05 ATD*9#; Jul 20 23:26:16 establish GPRS data connection Jul 20 23:26:37 won't fly with two concurrent requests Jul 20 23:26:58 I used to have two data connections with my symbian phones all the time. One for symbian and one for n810 over bt. each device got their own public ip Jul 20 23:27:04 at least I never heard of such thing Jul 20 23:27:19 wtf?? Jul 20 23:27:52 enemy of the internet, using so many public IPs ;-) Jul 20 23:28:07 well that's DHCP, but not the basic OTA data connection (aka carrier, on other technologies) Jul 20 23:29:18 over DSL you also can run deveral independent DHCP logical connections, but you can't request the DSL modem to open up a second channel Jul 20 23:30:14 on GPRS you probably wouldn't even have a means to configure different APN for the "concurrent connections" Jul 20 23:30:56 oh I've done that too Jul 20 23:31:02 different APNs Jul 20 23:31:22 gprs has no way to open two concurrent connections Jul 20 23:31:32 exactly kerio Jul 20 23:31:34 I don't get what APNs are Jul 20 23:31:38 maybe umts can Jul 20 23:33:36 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Point_Name Jul 20 23:35:44 settings . internet-connections - connection - - "EDIT" - "forward" ->here you are: Name of AccessPoint, UserName, Password Jul 20 23:35:53 -->APN Jul 20 23:36:49 s/forward/next Jul 20 23:38:21 ... Jul 20 23:39:26 access point Jul 20 23:40:22 like the mms access point gets you into some isp lan where you only find the mms and wap and the whole gsm/3g clusterfuck nih servers Jul 20 23:40:30 kerio: so how do you send/receive MMS while connected via GPRS? Jul 20 23:40:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Point_Name Jul 20 23:40:58 for those who want it at one click Jul 20 23:42:54 obviously MMS needs a different APN, and so probably GPRS is torn down for MMS data cnnection to establish, and then when MMS is done it switches back to standard APN. Not sure about that, but sounds logical to me Jul 20 23:43:08 ask frals Jul 20 23:43:57 it's done like that in maemo because icd/whatever is unable to do more than one at a time Jul 20 23:44:06 or just do a ping flood with timestamped packets during MMS rx Jul 20 23:44:37 ShadowJK: I'd say GPRS OTA protocol is unable to do more than one at a time Jul 20 23:44:49 but meh Jul 20 23:44:59 T-Mobile supposedly only has one APN now Jul 20 23:45:15 for all? Jul 20 23:45:23 MMS and data service? Jul 20 23:45:47 s/data service/internet access Jul 20 23:46:11 and WAP :-P Jul 20 23:46:23 I've been running a program and as soon as it finishes, it makes my n810 freezes and restart. how can I figure out what is happening? Jul 20 23:46:32 DocScrutinizer: supposely Jul 20 23:46:44 DocScrutinizer: the only one I can make practical use of is a discontinued one ; Jul 20 23:46:46 ;p Jul 20 23:47:43 rafaelbrandao: nasty Jul 20 23:47:52 that program is the one I've been trying to make it work. now that it finally works, it makes me sad. Jul 20 23:48:09 what program? Jul 20 23:48:34 example program from libfprint. I'm trying to get my fingerprint enrolled. Jul 20 23:49:02 is it using alot of ram? Jul 20 23:49:13 hmm... I don't know, really. Jul 20 23:49:56 strace >somefile. Hope somefile holds some helpful info after crash Jul 20 23:50:21 vmstat 1 >somefile Jul 20 23:50:27 check /var/log/messages Jul 20 23:50:54 prolly will need to install klogd/syslogd for that Jul 20 23:51:26 /proc/bootreason after freeze Jul 20 23:51:50 dunno if diablo has crashdumplog in /dev/mtdblk2 Jul 20 23:51:54 or somewhere Jul 20 23:52:14 but sounds like a kernel panic anyway Jul 20 23:52:51 so probably that strange fingerprint prog comes with some nasty kernel driver Jul 20 23:53:02 that maybe crashes on unload Jul 20 23:53:14 oh no x_x Jul 20 23:53:51 ShadowJK, just tried the /proc/bootreason but it says I don't have permission, even being root. Jul 20 23:54:02 errr Jul 20 23:54:14 cat /proc/bootreason Jul 20 23:54:18 ls -l /proc/bootreason Jul 20 23:54:46 ShadowJK: x.x Jul 20 23:54:50 here says: 32wd_to Jul 20 23:55:03 watchdog-timeout Jul 20 23:55:23 kernel been busy with excessive swapping. prog uses too much ram Jul 20 23:55:31 my guess Jul 20 23:56:05 mine too Jul 20 23:56:31 does it use the camera? Jul 20 23:56:58 nop Jul 20 23:57:01 does the proximity sensor do anything useful? Jul 20 23:57:14 luke-jr: yes? Jul 20 23:57:17 detectproximity? :-P Jul 20 23:57:24 asj: such as? Jul 20 23:57:34 luke-jr: not dial with your ear Jul 20 23:57:40 ah Jul 20 23:57:48 luke-jr: not dial while in your pocket Jul 20 23:57:49 it switches off the screen when you put the phone to your head during a call Jul 20 23:57:56 asj: that was my hope Jul 20 23:58:09 actually, I was hoping it could be made to never turn the screen off when it was visible Jul 20 23:58:25 so you want it to work backwards? Jul 20 23:58:29 no Jul 20 23:58:42 I like that it auto-locks in my pocket/ear Jul 20 23:58:51 I just don't want it to ever turn off when I'm looking at it Jul 20 23:59:11 actually you *can* dial with prox sensor covered :-( Jul 20 23:59:26 luke-jr: use the 2nd camera for face recognition? if you have any cpu power left..you can use the phone Jul 20 23:59:36 ... Jul 20 23:59:42 why not the proximity? Jul 21 00:00:00 luke-jr: it can't see they you are looking at it Jul 21 00:00:44 seems prox sensor is acive during established call only, by default Jul 21 00:01:08 DocScrutinizer: heh, who did you call? ex? Jul 21 00:02:04 huh? Jul 21 00:02:15 Nokia-N900-42-11:/sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity# cat state Jul 21 00:02:16 open Jul 21 00:02:18 Nokia-N900-42-11:/sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity# cat state Jul 21 00:02:19 closed Jul 21 00:02:21 works though Jul 21 00:02:48 asj: if there's nothing directly in front of it, I'm usually looking at it Jul 21 00:02:49 closed means covered Jul 21 00:03:11 DocScrutinizer: open/close is also logged :) Jul 21 00:03:16 open means "you're looking at it" Jul 21 00:04:51 basically Jul 21 00:04:52 luke-jr: I'd be surprised if it were active all the time. OTOH cam lens slider switch *is* active all the time, and it's same component Jul 21 00:05:10 DocScrutinizer: it seems to be Jul 21 00:06:59 meh, seems far IR. Cam doesn't show any activity, though there evidently has to be some Jul 21 00:07:22 ergo-> cam can't detect pox's IR Jul 21 00:11:36 cam *can* detect CIR LED though, nice blue(!) Jul 21 00:21:23 my phone is sitting on the desk right now face up, not looking at it ;) Jul 21 00:22:55 asj: if it was on, you'd see it Jul 21 00:23:20 I might want mine to show a fullscreen clock in that case :) Jul 21 00:23:33 too bad the case doesn't have some kind of human-contact sensor Jul 21 00:23:33 CIR LED as seen by N900 maincam (without using a mirror or a black hole :-P) http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10033 Jul 21 00:24:13 Videos are unable to play. Either you have an older version of Adobe's Flash player, or javascript is turned off. Update to the latest Flash player. Jul 21 00:24:22 no still? Jul 21 00:24:23 microb playback is absolute crap on mp4 recorded with N900. download and playback with mediaplayer Jul 21 00:24:57 luke-jr: same here on laptop. Use N900 :-P Jul 21 00:25:51 microb is uttering some AdobeFlash9 when getting contxt menu of video Jul 21 00:26:16 no idea what's wrong on desktop linux Jul 21 00:27:39 DocScrutinizer: N900 is building kdelibs Jul 21 00:27:52 hehe Jul 21 00:28:08 kill -sigstop Jul 21 00:29:36 DocScrutinizer: no thanks Jul 21 00:29:38 :_ Jul 21 00:29:45 btw Jul 21 00:29:52 N900 can't build WebKit still Jul 21 00:29:54 :( Jul 21 00:30:14 but then, I also discovered people were havign trouble building it on x86 with 4 GB RAM :P Jul 21 00:30:33 apparently that thing is really really really greedy Jul 21 00:30:45 sounds like c++ Jul 21 00:30:48 mp4 and ovi share both suck Jul 21 00:31:14 ShadowJK: please explain the relevance of C++ to the linker. Jul 21 00:31:47 luke-jr: it seems to have an enormous number of symbols, C++ may not help there Jul 21 00:32:19 and it seems to trigger some linker bugs on other platforms too Jul 21 00:33:27 of course, then there's cmake... Jul 21 00:33:30 piece of crap Jul 21 00:37:32 eeew Jul 21 00:42:43 DocScrutinizer, thats a pretty hue. Jul 21 00:42:51 how well does it come through with the face cam? Jul 21 00:43:03 and at what sort of range Jul 21 00:43:25 when i looked with the normal cam it wasnt great and i know theres a filter over the face-cam Jul 21 00:44:09 that filter is called touchscreen foil :P Jul 21 00:44:38 ahh DocScrutinizer its coming through reasonably Jul 21 00:44:56 and if i did it to detect temporal flashing Jul 21 00:45:52 lost me Jul 21 00:46:09 about the libfprint issue, the program is executed and finished, then a few seconds later: everything is frozen and the system restart. :\ Jul 21 00:46:36 is it the right place to ask about how to upload to maemo extras? Jul 21 00:46:37 DocScrutinizer, shine your IR led into the face came and record it Jul 21 00:46:57 wouldn't even know how to do that Jul 21 00:47:00 welcome Gryllida, ask sensible questions and we will try to answer Jul 21 00:47:26 DocScrutinizer, ok nm just ponderments Jul 21 00:47:39 i just shone my remote control into face cam and saw it flashing Jul 21 00:47:47 hence the temporal bit ;) Jul 21 00:48:24 toldya Jul 21 00:49:03 use 3. flash with maybe 25 Hz Jul 21 00:49:25 get a pretty decent signal, even with bright sunlight interfering Jul 21 00:49:30 yeah, attempt to sync with the cam Jul 21 00:49:45 yeah the flashing has a problem Jul 21 00:49:49 ok, make that 12Hz Jul 21 00:49:53 it would effectively halve the res Jul 21 00:50:16 detection points would be 2x as far away Jul 21 00:50:37 because i cannot accurately locate where it isnt - although, i could interpolate Jul 21 00:50:47 hehe Jul 21 00:50:55 but i would be gaining 1 frame of lag Jul 21 00:51:07 can't accurately tell where it isn't - nicely put Jul 21 00:51:25 :) Jul 21 00:52:25 without sync you'll even have 2 frames as you always get one frame crap Jul 21 00:52:36 yeah aliasing effects Jul 21 00:52:41 yep Jul 21 00:52:50 even rolling shutter Jul 21 00:53:04 sure, the leds arent really a problem Jul 21 00:53:06 dunno Jul 21 00:53:19 i grab gravitational centre of blobs Jul 21 00:53:36 so even a smear works nicely Jul 21 00:53:46 hello? Jul 21 00:53:46 as long as its on the same frame ;) Jul 21 00:54:01 yeah that'S the point of rolling shutter Jul 21 00:54:02 welcome Gryllida, ask sensible questions and we will try to answer Jul 21 00:54:08 may see two on one off Jul 21 00:54:41 yeah at least bright only i am able to grab at ~25fps Jul 21 00:54:48 Thaank you lcuk, I've uploaded a package to Maemo Extras website and seem to be unable to find where to edit its description. Jul 21 00:55:11 Gryllida, the debian packaging itself specifies the description Jul 21 00:55:50 it is the central source for your information - configure the package and include description as per debian packaging specifications and the description will come through Jul 21 00:56:05 it's in file named 'control' Jul 21 00:56:22 http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ Jul 21 00:59:19 umm, how do I check which process has /var/lib/dpkg/lock locked? Jul 21 00:59:51 its either ham fapman or dpkg :P Jul 21 00:59:51 lcuk: I uploaded the source to the website, including the filled-out 'control' file, it compiles and orks on the Maemo machine. However the website builds it and then the description doesn't show up. Jul 21 01:00:15 Gryllida, which package is it Jul 21 01:00:22 lcuk, heh, not on my PC Jul 21 01:00:34 oh and ham doesn't lock it, apt-worker does :P Jul 21 01:00:43 MohammadAG: fuser? Jul 21 01:00:55 * lcuk throws a frals @ u Jul 21 01:01:08 DocScrutinizer, tried that but... Jul 21 01:01:10 mohammad@mohammad-laptop:~$ fuser /var/lib/dpkg/lock Jul 21 01:01:10 mohammad@mohammad-laptop:~$ Jul 21 01:01:49 err, so it's not locked but shere existence of lockfile is the problem. Just rm XP Jul 21 01:02:09 lcuk, 'which' as in? Jul 21 01:02:26 touch worked Jul 21 01:02:35 * MohammadAG installs hildon-desktop on his laptop Jul 21 01:02:37 Gryllida, I meant what is the name of your package and the url that is not showing what you expect. Jul 21 01:02:37 Gryllida: name of package, URL etc Jul 21 01:03:33 brb Jul 21 01:03:39 http://maemo.org/packages/view/qtmeye/ ... Jul 21 01:03:45 * Gryllida hides Jul 21 01:06:40 bah Jul 21 01:06:48 hildon-desktop doesn't start Jul 21 01:06:50 Gryllida: strange Jul 21 01:06:52 Gryllida, on the packages page you just linked to, the description is correct Jul 21 01:07:09 as in, I don't see it at all? Jul 21 01:07:25 Description: A simple Qt application for testing eyes vision acuity. Jul 21 01:07:25 . Jul 21 01:07:25 Further Information: qt4.garage.maemo.org Jul 21 01:07:25 XSBC-Bugtracker: Jul 21 01:07:42 website: Jul 21 01:07:43 A simple Qt application for testing eyes vision acuity. Jul 21 01:07:43 Further Information: qt4.garage.maemo.org Jul 21 01:07:43 Section: Jul 21 01:07:57 yep Jul 21 01:08:02 * Gryllida doesn't see it Jul 21 01:08:11 AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getName' <- any ideas? Jul 21 01:08:36 i am going to bed, but Gryllida refresh the page perhaps Jul 21 01:08:47 * lcuk shrugs and heads off to bed Jul 21 01:08:50 oh, ok, looks like it's there now Jul 21 01:08:51 nightynight lcuk Jul 21 01:08:55 \o Jul 21 01:08:56 good night Jul 21 01:09:16 night lcuk Jul 21 01:10:12 * DocScrutinizer off for his special flavour of relaxing Jul 21 01:10:37 aka falling catatonic watching shit in TV Jul 21 01:13:07 tell you, this auto portrait is a PITA Jul 21 01:14:09 ugh, damn hildon-desktop Jul 21 01:14:11 and seems sh-ctl-r is working everywhere to switch it off at least ?-D Jul 21 01:15:00 :-D even Jul 21 01:33:01 well I can say I don't particularly like xchat in portrait mode Jul 21 01:45:10 Sometimes when I go back to a previos webpage, MicroB doesn't show it until I scroll. Is that normal? Jul 21 01:46:16 hi, any organisators of http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Coding_Competition_1 online? Jul 21 01:46:25 >.> Jul 21 01:48:38 Sorry for off-topic but this is the place to ask from mobile gurus Jul 21 01:48:44 Is it possible to use a Blackberry in Europe? Jul 21 01:49:26 why not? Jul 21 01:49:41 some blackberries are cdma only Jul 21 01:50:06 yeah, those won't have an easy time here Jul 21 01:50:49 Any idea where to buy one and get 3G support and hopefully unlocked ? Jul 21 01:50:59 blue... err blackberries are sold in every mobile store here though Jul 21 01:51:17 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Jul 21 01:51:34 Unfortunately the problem in Finland that there is no official retailer Jul 21 01:51:37 DrGrov: well buy one with 2100mhz umts support, it'll be listed as part of the spec Jul 21 01:52:25 so is there any hope whatsoever for N900 GPS? Jul 21 01:52:34 gprs 4band + umts ans you should be fine with it. Then get dataplan of whatever provider of your choice Jul 21 01:52:50 I have a dataplan already Jul 21 01:52:53 luke-jr: huh? Jul 21 01:53:10 DocScrutinizer: looks like it's basically closed as N810, but worse Jul 21 01:53:11 asj: ok, thanks. i will search for that. Jul 21 01:53:20 yeah Jul 21 01:53:22 I thought I would like to give a Blackberry a run for its money Jul 21 01:53:39 DocScrutinizer: undocumented phonet protocol, and doesn't even output NMEA Jul 21 01:53:46 yep Jul 21 01:54:27 you'll have to live with some Nokia blob Jul 21 01:54:51 never Jul 21 01:54:55 unless someone REs it Jul 21 01:55:24 so MeeGo will be GPS-less? Jul 21 01:56:06 shouldn't be too hard probably, as I guess the main heavy lifting algorithm wise is done inside the GPS chip anyway, and it's just the friggin intergace and dataformat therein that isn't exaactly convenient Jul 21 01:56:21 good question, I have no idea Jul 21 01:56:46 I'd guess ofono will deal with it Jul 21 01:57:00 as GPS is part of the cellmo aiui Jul 21 01:57:24 dunno where from those dudes have their specs Jul 21 01:58:53 Should I buy a new Blackberry or a used one? Which is the better way to go? Jul 21 02:01:49 good morning Jul 21 02:11:47 morning Jul 21 02:46:36 Stupid shit GPS Jul 21 02:46:56 eCoach now thinks my top speed on my run was 49MPH. . . . Jul 21 02:48:46 GAN900: sounds like ecoach needs some filtering Jul 21 02:52:18 GAN900: sweeet. Jul 21 02:53:32 'Evening folks Jul 21 02:54:42 hi Jul 21 02:56:35 Does anyone know what the purpose of the /usr/lib/cruft directory on my N900 is? Jul 21 02:56:54 I looked at the script in there, but I wasn't sure of the context. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 21 02:59:57 2010