**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 23 02:59:56 2010 Jul 23 03:01:56 SpeedEvil: a bunch of various init packets Jul 23 03:04:12 SpeedEvil: test with my gps app Jul 23 03:04:16 http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/gps Jul 23 03:05:29 ah Jul 23 03:05:31 nice resume luke Jul 23 03:05:33 dont!!! it's a trap! DD; Jul 23 03:05:35 ok - I'll probably do tomorroa Jul 23 03:05:37 w Jul 23 03:11:27 ham5: ... Jul 23 03:15:00 why make it as public as it is... Jul 23 03:19:42 err - what? Jul 23 03:22:06 ham5: why not? Jul 23 03:22:12 SpeedEvil: he went browsing my site :P Jul 23 03:23:25 :) Jul 23 03:25:09 surfs up dood Jul 23 03:26:58 btw, even if I released the source to initcellmo, it wouldn't be free software cuz it's all basically blob strings I don't understand :) Jul 23 03:27:10 more or less took the strace output and made it compileable Jul 23 03:27:19 and replaced recv* with sleep :p Jul 23 03:27:37 * SpeedEvil wishes that xrandr -o 32 worked Jul 23 03:27:48 (on his laptop) Jul 23 03:28:09 ... Jul 23 03:28:13 but that's not a valid option -.- Jul 23 03:29:17 I mean so that it fitted the largest rectangle possible into the screen, at that angle, and presented it as the display Jul 23 03:29:33 ... Jul 23 03:29:42 report a bug! Jul 23 03:29:53 xrandr needs rotations other than multiples of 90 degrees! Jul 23 03:30:25 Also - incidentally - non rectangular windows. Jul 23 03:31:33 X supports those Jul 23 03:31:39 maybe not GTK or Qt... Jul 23 04:02:25 i think qt use 3d matrices for their view Jul 23 04:02:50 and cairo shouldn't have problem displaying rotated text Jul 23 04:03:50 uikit don't afaict Jul 23 04:04:01 while appkit does that quite fine. Jul 23 04:04:17 (2d matrices though) Jul 23 04:48:12 FWIW, just confirmed KDE is lighter than Maemo5 <.< Jul 23 04:48:14 on memory Jul 23 04:48:53 kde have a mobil version? Jul 23 04:51:14 urgh Jul 23 04:51:18 * Stskeeps needs coffee Jul 23 04:53:20 good moorning Sts Jul 23 04:53:22 * RST38h off to work Jul 23 04:53:57 ham5: Gentoo run on N900 :p Jul 23 04:54:07 ham5: full KDE! Jul 23 04:54:25 mmm sounds like a pita Jul 23 04:56:22 it is! Jul 23 04:56:51 and I bet that memory thing changes the moment I fire up KMail Jul 23 04:57:01 especially now that KDE requires MySQL for it Jul 23 04:57:53 Stskeeps: doesn't MeeGo have plans to rewrite the WM in Qt4? Jul 23 04:57:54 may be running it somewhere else? Jul 23 04:58:04 wall[3]: not allowed! :P Jul 23 04:58:04 luke-jr: there's something called mcompositor Jul 23 04:58:12 Stskeeps: which is GTK AFAIK? Jul 23 04:58:23 no Jul 23 04:58:24 qt Jul 23 04:58:27 o Jul 23 04:58:33 great Jul 23 04:58:36 now I just need a sane mail client Jul 23 04:58:38 <.< Jul 23 04:58:42 how are you calculating memory use exactly? Jul 23 04:58:47 asj: swap usage Jul 23 04:58:53 luke-jr: lol Jul 23 04:58:53 KDE can start without using swap Jul 23 04:58:59 Maemo can't Jul 23 04:59:00 what's the benefit of writing a simple wm with toolkits? Jul 23 04:59:08 luke-jr: btw, keep in mind that maemo precaches a shitload of stuff Jul 23 04:59:11 wall[3]: WMs aren't so simple Jul 23 04:59:17 Stskeeps: not my fault Jul 23 04:59:26 luke-jr, yeh but for small devices. Jul 23 04:59:37 wall[3]: especially for small devices! Jul 23 04:59:38 but may be good for data types objects etc. Jul 23 04:59:54 i wrote like 3 wms heh Jul 23 05:00:04 I couldn't find any specs to write a WM with :/ Jul 23 05:00:19 hmm Jul 23 05:00:31 thinking about this further, I realize what I really want is an open Maemo in Qt4 <.< Jul 23 05:00:34 Maemo5* Jul 23 05:00:54 i want open conversation app Jul 23 05:01:02 after all, I can always run Arora and KMail-replacement on it... Jul 23 05:01:04 it's useless now for my language and they don't bother fixing. Jul 23 05:01:09 wall[3]: that too Jul 23 05:01:27 I suspect even PR1.2 doesn't really support video Jul 23 05:01:37 it doesn't work with Skype for Mac/Windows, nor Pidgin Jul 23 05:01:41 not sure there's much else... Jul 23 05:02:03 :S Jul 23 05:02:32 you need to upgrade your skype Jul 23 05:04:33 Stskeeps: pretty sure the Mac one was latest version Jul 23 05:05:03 on further thought, I suspect I would be able to tolerate Maemo5 closed... except for the bugs/wishlists I want to fix Jul 23 05:05:04 :p Jul 23 05:05:53 that's one of the core problems with closed source Jul 23 05:06:04 you can't fix/change it without rewriting everything :( Jul 23 05:06:10 meh, what we try to fix with meego Jul 23 05:06:10 :P Jul 23 05:06:33 but MeeGo is RPM -.- Jul 23 05:06:42 * luke-jr ponders stealing all the software into Gentoo Jul 23 05:07:12 hmmm what happened to claws? Jul 23 05:07:14 and gentoo's gentoo Jul 23 05:07:14 :P Jul 23 05:08:17 Stskeeps: didn't you mean s/gentoo/big steaming pile/ ? Jul 23 05:08:17 ds3: it always sucked? Jul 23 05:08:25 Stskeeps: Gentoo works good for me :) Jul 23 05:08:27 asj: i decided to be diplomatic Jul 23 05:08:30 Stskeeps: it's just KDE that is failing Jul 23 05:09:10 * luke-jr ponders what MeeGo's minimum supported resolution is-- 320x240 or 640x480? Jul 23 05:09:34 I think KDE's is like 800x600 -.- Jul 23 05:09:59 for a "private" beta, Opera sure updates a lot Jul 23 05:10:16 lol Jul 23 05:10:47 would like to see more updates to the firefox or maemos Jul 23 05:10:58 pfft Firefox Jul 23 05:11:01 that's worse than KDE Jul 23 05:11:14 kde is a desktop firefox is an app Jul 23 05:11:17 apples oranges? Jul 23 05:11:25 that's what's so insane about it Jul 23 05:11:30 a mere app uses more memory than a desktop! Jul 23 05:11:37 luke-jr: it sucked less then the built in mail Jul 23 05:11:57 ds3: honestly, I'm cool w/ M5's builtin mail Jul 23 05:12:06 yea ill agree Jul 23 05:12:09 its mail ffs Jul 23 05:12:10 as long as I go home eventually :P Jul 23 05:12:13 I don't use it, but I'd love push notifications instead of pulling Jul 23 05:12:23 LiraNuna: M5 can't do push? Jul 23 05:12:33 it can't do imap idle Jul 23 05:12:36 o Jul 23 05:12:39 but then, neither can KMail Jul 23 05:12:44 it can do mfe or nokia messaging Jul 23 05:12:46 and then again, I don't care Jul 23 05:12:50 because email isn't realtime anyway Jul 23 05:12:57 I could never get Nokia Messaging working Jul 23 05:13:01 its mail Jul 23 05:13:06 I don't want to even try Nokia anything services :P Jul 23 05:13:15 ham5: exactly. you sent it, I get it a week later Jul 23 05:13:16 :p Jul 23 05:15:03 look at you luke with your fancy ipv6 ip... do you dev at all? Jul 23 05:15:06 i wonder if a plugin could allow loading all images in firefox as 2bits b/w Jul 23 05:15:27 Stskeeps: gprs-provisioning is closed too? :/ Jul 23 05:15:30 ham5: ... Jul 23 05:15:40 ham5: how do you think I even have Gentoo running? Jul 23 05:15:43 use some lame conversion, no need to be fancy Jul 23 05:16:00 nothing for maemo tho? Jul 23 05:16:17 ham5: Maemo is closed. Jul 23 05:17:31 ham5: the only reason I touch it at all these days is because Nokia sent me a N900 Jul 23 05:17:41 thus, my GCC 4.4 build kernel supports Maemo5 :p Jul 23 05:18:13 presumably my GPS code will be usable for MeeGo as well... Jul 23 05:19:14 I'm also trying to get Linux ported over to N810-- that effort can benefit MeeGo as well Jul 23 05:19:37 whats meego have to gain? Jul 23 05:19:47 more of a redhat base isent it? Jul 23 05:20:07 for packages, yes Jul 23 05:20:16 but as far as actual code, MeeGo and Gentoo can share a lot Jul 23 05:20:26 mainly I guess I focus on making things more open ;) Jul 23 05:20:33 like reverse engineering closed parts Jul 23 05:20:50 i still think one of the bigger problems on n8x0 is that we don't have DVFS :P Jul 23 05:21:05 Stskeeps: seriously, what difference does it make? Jul 23 05:21:19 luke-jr: well, for one, power saving Jul 23 05:21:35 as well as i suspect it only runs at 133mhz (base freq) Jul 23 05:21:35 * luke-jr glances at his N810... Jul 23 05:21:37 emerge (82 of 341) dev-libs/glib-2.22.4 Jul 23 05:21:38 OH Jul 23 05:21:40 XD Jul 23 05:22:47 (now you know why I've been so N900-focussed for the past week...) Jul 23 05:23:24 you chatting on your gentoo n900 right now? Jul 23 05:23:39 ham5: no, I am chatting on my Gentoo amd64 right now. :P Jul 23 05:23:52 ahh Jul 23 05:23:56 bout a 5 day uptime? Jul 23 05:24:00 ? Jul 23 05:24:08 01:21:55 up 8 days, 16:41, 2 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.04 Jul 23 05:24:12 how'd you find that out Jul 23 05:24:13 ... Jul 23 05:24:16 u? Jul 23 05:24:19 00:24:05 up 4 days, 23:28, 33 users, load average: 0.37, 0.16, 0.11 Jul 23 05:24:25 so close ;) Jul 23 05:24:26 seriously, how'd you guess Jul 23 05:24:37 nickserv? Jul 23 05:24:42 O.o Jul 23 05:24:45 oooh Jul 23 05:24:55 wait no Jul 23 05:25:00 ever log off irc? Jul 23 05:25:00 nickserv says not Jul 23 05:25:05 not intentionally Jul 23 05:25:08 then you are 0wned Jul 23 05:25:16 j/k Jul 23 05:25:34 no Jul 23 05:25:40 I'd be owned if I had my older uptime ;P Jul 23 05:25:47 last reboot 5 days ago was to update my kernel Jul 23 05:25:57 what u run/. Jul 23 05:25:59 ? Jul 23 05:26:08 2.6.34-gentoo-r? Jul 23 05:26:12 mainline? Jul 23 05:26:13 o Jul 23 05:26:14 r1 Jul 23 05:26:21 gentoo's kernel Jul 23 05:26:22 it's pretty close to mainline Jul 23 05:26:33 Gentoo has a "no features" policy Jul 23 05:27:31 yeah, 4 patches Jul 23 05:28:09 a bugfix, a "cleanup", xconfig Qt4 support, and some framebuffer console decoration thing Jul 23 05:28:23 someone needs to enforce policy on that last one O.o Jul 23 05:28:41 yea framebuffer is defantly a feature Jul 23 05:29:26 decoration Jul 23 05:29:31 it puts a bg image on it -.- Jul 23 05:29:50 its... to help run your monitors I thought Jul 23 05:31:05 <.< Jul 23 05:33:42 ^_^ Jul 23 05:33:51 yea nm Jul 23 05:37:39 mhmh, thinks it's time for a reboot Jul 23 05:38:01 n900 starting to be dead slow Jul 23 05:38:29 have a look at conkey see whats going on ? Jul 23 05:38:35 loadavg? Jul 23 05:40:25 no, mem usage I think Jul 23 05:40:41 it's just not able to maintain uptime more than 15-20 days Jul 23 05:41:16 killing hildon-desktop, modest and stuff like that helps a bit, but in the end I have to reboot Jul 23 05:43:24 ~curse elisa Jul 23 05:46:26 frals: joys of living in finland? Jul 23 05:46:49 adsl dying every evening at 23:44, its awesome Jul 23 05:46:50 :| Jul 23 05:47:38 tells you it's time to sleep ;) Jul 23 05:48:07 frals: matches with when the neighbour gets up to microwave a snack? ;) Jul 23 05:48:45 hehe Jul 23 05:49:06 23:44:29 board 0 line 0 channel 0, call 1, C01 Incoming Call 1500000 CALL DETAIL RECORD Jul 23 05:49:13 wonder wth that means :p Jul 23 05:51:37 heyyy guys Jul 23 05:52:14 frals: incoming call on your adsl? :P Jul 23 05:52:46 frals: the internet phones back to haunt you! Jul 23 05:52:47 :P Jul 23 05:53:09 any1 know of an msn webcam app for n900 i tried with amsn but cant seem to install it i think i might have 2 reflash to pr 1.1 but i would like to know if any1 has solution before doing so? any ideas? Jul 23 05:53:25 pr 1.0 sry Jul 23 05:54:32 none of my friends have skype, so u know? Jul 23 05:55:52 okay lol thanks anyways Jul 23 05:58:40 wow i so losted? Jul 23 05:59:12 start by upgrading to pr1.2? Jul 23 06:00:22 no i have pr1.2 Jul 23 06:01:19 ssry im confusing Jul 23 06:03:57 i think i have 2 old firmware its okay i do it tomarrows to tired lol i want to use the front camera lol Jul 23 06:04:31 what makes you laugh that much? Jul 23 06:04:41 Corsac: the alchohol Jul 23 06:04:47 ack, what ever Jul 23 06:04:50 of course Jul 23 06:05:50 sorry am i an annoyance ? dont mean to be im new to all this i just didnt want to reflash. Jul 23 06:06:07 Pauly: install pr1.2 Jul 23 06:06:13 he already has Jul 23 06:06:16 i have that Jul 23 06:06:17 lol Jul 23 06:06:55 stop laughing Jul 23 06:06:58 that's not funny Jul 23 06:06:58 how about that fcamera it is so amazing Jul 23 06:07:26 talk.maemo.org sounds like a good place for yu Jul 23 06:07:27 P Jul 23 06:07:28 :P Jul 23 06:07:41 thanks Jul 23 06:07:50 i was there Jul 23 06:09:58 X-Fade, ping Jul 23 06:11:43 hey i would love to help port something or develop somthing but i have no skills but alot of free time, so i will learn some skills and then come back i guess. i just wanna be involved i know i seem like a freeloader. Jul 23 06:16:22 awww Jul 23 06:16:34 That was the best nights sleep I've had in weeks. Jul 23 06:16:36 and it's the first time I've woken up before ten in a couple of months... Jul 23 06:16:52 (7:00 here) Jul 23 06:17:03 alterego, congrats! Jul 23 06:17:13 Hopefully it's a return to normality. Jul 23 06:17:25 thanks :) Jul 23 06:17:53 I couldn't sleep at all last night. Jul 23 06:18:49 So I'm running with the same eyes than yesterday. Jul 23 06:19:28 The air was so swetty. Storm is coming. Jul 23 06:19:35 I'm running with the same eyes since I was born Jul 23 06:19:38 Heh, Jul 23 06:19:42 :> Jul 23 06:20:24 But it's very very creative state when you haven't slept or you're having a huge hangover. Jul 23 06:20:48 state of mind I mean. Jul 23 06:21:40 Too bad that today I have only some stupid database administratinon scheduled @ work and nothing artistic :-( Jul 23 06:21:54 So maybe I'll go and grab the fourth cup of coffee... Jul 23 06:23:28 Heh Jul 23 06:23:43 Have fun crashing this afternoon :P Jul 23 06:25:05 Thanks, I will :P Jul 23 06:37:28 hey! I am wondering, should I get a n900 now? or just wait some months for the next nokia/meego device? Jul 23 06:37:53 like the consumer is ever going to stop Jul 23 06:38:09 do what you want something newer and badder is always going to come out 'next' Jul 23 06:38:30 bef0rd: n900 price will dump anyway Jul 23 06:38:36 so depending on what you want Jul 23 06:38:50 bef0rd: is the sky blue? Jul 23 06:39:13 skys grey here asj Jul 23 06:39:19 so Jul 23 06:39:38 does flash work in anything else than microb? Jul 23 06:40:07 like what? Jul 23 06:40:20 need it for your phone calls? Jul 23 06:40:25 it should it's a nsplugin complement thing, and other rendering engines like webkit support it Jul 23 06:40:29 ham5: I'm glad I'm here then Jul 23 06:40:36 oh opera, firefox, chrome, you numbnut Jul 23 06:41:31 bef0rd: right what I guess I should've asked is... is the way to make it work known :) Jul 23 06:42:28 I want to switch to fennec permanently since microb fails on JS on my most used site (looking up bus schedules) Jul 23 06:43:02 fennec is gecko, so it def should work, check the aboug:plugins Jul 23 06:43:38 hmm yeah Jul 23 06:43:51 all right, moo all Jul 23 06:44:00 rst surely knows this Jul 23 06:45:40 Known Issues Jul 23 06:45:41 Initially, Firefox for N900 does not support browser plug-ins. Due to performance problems using Adobe Flash within Firefox on many websites, especially those with multiple plug-ins on them, we have disabled plugins for Firefox for Maemo 1.0. We plan to provide a browser add-on that will enable you to selectively enable plugins on certain sites, because some sites, like YouTube, work well. Jul 23 06:45:56 well that you have it tybollt Jul 23 06:46:00 thar* Jul 23 06:52:38 woot Jul 23 06:52:42 fennec for qt? :-o Jul 23 06:52:53 gots to havez Jul 23 06:53:03 url? Jul 23 06:53:26 http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/latest-mozilla-central-maemo5-qt/ Jul 23 06:53:35 ah, yeah Jul 23 06:53:39 ? Jul 23 06:53:40 we have that in meego too Jul 23 06:54:09 * Termana stabs N900 connection manager. Jul 23 06:54:09 Stskeeps: caveat; YOU have meego, right now meego is not for my n900 =) Jul 23 06:54:44 tybollt: well, if it wasn't for the fact our armv7l builds are crap atm, you would have it :P Jul 23 06:54:55 I don't like that the connection manager thinks "network connection failed" just because it only got IPv6 and not IPv4 on the PDP :P Jul 23 06:55:47 For some reason it won't give internet access if you hook it up to USB, connect to internet through USB on (LINUX BASED) PC, and then try and use it. But it will work if you connect on the device first, and then connect to USB. Jul 23 06:56:12 brb Jul 23 06:56:13 Stskeeps: Well I can wait. From what I saw on my netbook it's good stuff. Jul 23 06:56:36 Granted the UX stuff is similar; netbook <-> handheld :S Jul 23 06:56:40 is it? Jul 23 06:58:05 netbook != handheld Jul 23 06:58:34 In fact, I have no idea why you would need some "new" UX for the netbook: a normal desktop UX works just fine Jul 23 07:00:02 netbook != handheld <-- are you implying something? Jul 23 07:00:23 nevermind I looked at the logs Jul 23 07:00:26 :P Jul 23 07:01:06 tybollt, haven't you looked at the Handset UX videos? Jul 23 07:06:29 Termana: I have not indeed Jul 23 07:06:59 I'm flash-impaired on my desktop system normally (mind, I consider that a good thing ;P) Jul 23 07:25:45 waZZZd Jul 23 07:46:43 ugh Jul 23 07:46:45 woot Jul 23 07:46:52 in HAM Jul 23 07:46:58 I click on "uninstall" Jul 23 07:47:09 yellow bar; "operation failed" Jul 23 07:47:16 and then "no applications installed" Jul 23 07:47:25 yeah - THAT'S likely Jul 23 07:47:25 success, obviously Jul 23 07:47:42 Stskeeps: is it a known bug then? Jul 23 07:47:54 no, but it did succeed in uninstalling Jul 23 07:47:55 ;) Jul 23 07:48:07 *everything* in one fell swoop Jul 23 07:48:12 * tybollt is impressed ;) Jul 23 08:14:21 I'm a PyGTK programmer, and I want to know how to add an item to the Maemo 5 tray icon (that contains clock and battery an silent ... icons) Jul 23 08:14:47 i can not find anything in python-hildon library Jul 23 08:19:00 Morning, all Jul 23 08:25:01 Good morning jacekowski Jul 23 08:25:04 Jaffa... Jul 23 08:25:07 damn autocomplete. Jul 23 08:25:08 :D Jul 23 08:25:15 ~seen X-Fade Jul 23 08:25:19 x-fade is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 79 messages. Is idling for 21h 59m 11s, last said: 'thp: 3 testers said it was ok then.'. Jul 23 08:26:26 D-Iivil_Work øëþõà Jul 23 08:26:39 aaaaa, ?!? Jul 23 08:27:23 D-Iivil_Work 3====D æåðæè õóé ãîâîðþ Jul 23 08:27:32 english please Jul 23 08:28:06 Stskeeps no speak English Jul 23 08:28:39 Stskeeps à íà ðóññêîì ÿ òå ñêàæó ÷òî òû ïèäàðîê =) Jul 23 08:28:53 this is an english only channel Jul 23 08:29:11 Stskeeps ïåðåâîä èùè õóéëè òû Jul 23 08:29:13 ÷åðò ñóêà Jul 23 08:29:18 à ÿ áóäó òåáÿ ãíîáèòü Jul 23 08:29:20 ïèäàðà Jul 23 08:29:20 :D Jul 23 08:29:24 ... Jul 23 08:29:35 MohammadAG51 .!. Jul 23 08:29:55 shove it up your arse Jul 23 08:30:12 MohammadAG51 õóéöà ñîñíè Jul 23 08:30:25 Stskeeps õóéòå â ñðàêó Jul 23 08:30:29 Stskeeps, +q Jul 23 08:30:42 MohammadAG51 + ñîñè ó ìåíÿ Jul 23 08:30:45 ïèäàðàñ Jul 23 08:31:09 idk what that means, cba to translate, most probably a swear word, who cares Jul 23 08:31:51 ïèäàðàñ Jul 23 08:32:01 what language is that, anyway? Jul 23 08:32:23 i think it's broken due to encoding issues. Jul 23 08:32:30 not sure, but it looks harder than C :P Jul 23 08:32:41 hi all. I'm a PyGTK programmer, and I want to know how to add an item to the Maemo 5 tray icon (that contains clock and battery an silent ... icons), or am i wrong and thats not "Tray Icon" and has another name? Jul 23 08:32:44 or font troubles Jul 23 08:32:56 or retarded talk Jul 23 08:35:07 crashanddie, hmm, anything on neopwn? Jul 23 08:52:43 frals? Jul 23 08:53:14 hey all Jul 23 08:53:22 has anyone tried Milky Tracker on their N900? Jul 23 08:53:26 Yup Jul 23 08:53:30 PhonicUK: It works. Jul 23 08:53:38 is there an optified version? Jul 23 08:53:47 does anyone here have a square dongle and an n900? Jul 23 08:53:54 You need to exchange the sdl-lib for the one with pulse-audio support for it to work though. Jul 23 08:54:05 tybollt: ? Jul 23 08:54:07 i need to finish my spectrum analyser Jul 23 08:54:19 dunz0r, where can I find that? Jul 23 08:54:25 well, it's finished, just slow Jul 23 08:54:27 In apt-get. Jul 23 08:54:58 any idea of the package name? Jul 23 08:55:30 also, anyone here have an DL/ID card from a Canadian, US or Mexican authority that has a magnetic stripe and is willing to give me some extremely generic info about how your ID numbers are formatted? Jul 23 08:57:02 tybollt: query me, going for lunch :p Jul 23 08:57:05 i have card withmagnetic stripe Jul 23 08:57:09 but it's not an id card Jul 23 08:57:46 strip* Jul 23 08:58:24 i have a maemo app written in qt that reads magnetic stripe cards.. have it configured to identify credit cards and AAMVA-compliant cards and display the data formatted Jul 23 08:58:39 how does it read that strip Jul 23 08:59:02 so i can for instance swipe an ID card from most north american states/provences and it will give me the issuing authority, the ID number, date of expiration and date of birth Jul 23 08:59:27 swipe where? Jul 23 08:59:32 do you have external reader? Jul 23 08:59:35 a dongle with a cassette tape header that interfaces through the audio jack Jul 23 08:59:54 that's not going to work with most of cards Jul 23 08:59:57 https://squareup.com/features (commercial site, not intending to advertise it) has pics of said dongle Jul 23 09:00:05 most of these cards are multitrack Jul 23 09:00:14 yeah, i can read track 2 Jul 23 09:00:21 and my software is configured for ABA only Jul 23 09:01:05 but any card with a magnetic stripe on track 2 written with the ABA spec works -- from gift cards, to credit cards, IDs, store membership cards Jul 23 09:01:45 credit cards for instance give me CC number and expiration date only -- the name of the cardholder is on track 1, which i cannot indeed read (although i hope to get a track 1 reader shortly) Jul 23 09:02:40 wow lots of new N900 stuff recently Jul 23 09:03:52 is it possible that maemo disconnects the wlan interface automatically? Jul 23 09:03:59 yes it does Jul 23 09:04:03 whenever its not used for a minute or so Jul 23 09:04:16 but for a $0.20 dongle, i can mimic the functionality of $300+ devices that clubs use to check IDs on an n900... easily ported to android/iphone/etc as well Jul 23 09:06:04 anyway, my interest is that if someone has an AAMVA complaint ID/DL (ie, issued from any country in north america), i would like to know the format of the ID number so i can display it properly -- for instance, california IDs are LNNNNNNN -- just looking for this kind of generic info Jul 23 09:06:35 uhm, i connected with my laptop in ad-hoc mode and it still disconnects after some time Jul 23 09:06:52 jacek: flash in chrome workie yet? Jul 23 09:07:24 ieatlint: so how does it accept cards? Jul 23 09:07:29 ieatlint: for payment? Jul 23 09:07:38 ieatlint: and what about EMV cards? Jul 23 09:07:41 and chip&pin Jul 23 09:08:18 and here you get card terminal for free with business account Jul 23 09:08:20 jacekowski: flash in chrome workie yet? Jul 23 09:08:26 it's working Jul 23 09:08:28 but crashing Jul 23 09:08:30 \o/ Jul 23 09:08:48 i don't have time to do a lot more work on it Jul 23 09:08:48 jacekowski: what's the status wrt the legal issues? Jul 23 09:08:59 status is that i don't care Jul 23 09:08:59 uh, i have signed an NDA with square, but i can likely answer several questions -- however, there is no maemo support for square and i am 100% unaware of any plans to bring support to maemo, so you cannot process any payments through square on maemo Jul 23 09:09:16 in the US, chip&pin does not exist Jul 23 09:09:20 awww :) Jul 23 09:09:23 carebear! Jul 23 09:09:31 well, i can do it legally Jul 23 09:09:39 it's only US that it's patented Jul 23 09:09:50 and i'm never going there again Jul 23 09:10:10 you slide the card, it reads track 2, gives the square app your CC number (as printed on card) and the expiration date only. it then sends it off to a square server for authorisation Jul 23 09:10:24 signature is collected using the touchscreen, receipts are sent via email Jul 23 09:10:41 any transaction requiring a pin is not supported Jul 23 09:10:56 that's sooooo unsecure Jul 23 09:10:57 (or any that require more than track 2 of a CC num) Jul 23 09:11:22 i would reverse and abuse that app just for sake of doing that Jul 23 09:11:25 so is me standing at a local supermarket with a DSLR taking pics of people pulling their credit cards out of their wallet -- your point? Jul 23 09:11:39 ieatlint: you need front and back Jul 23 09:12:03 perhaps :P Jul 23 09:12:23 anyway, yes, it is possible that you could even write an app that sits on the audio interface and intercepts card swipes Jul 23 09:12:23 ieatlint: what would picture of card give you? Jul 23 09:12:25 photo* Jul 23 09:12:34 the CC number and expiration date Jul 23 09:12:43 and? Jul 23 09:12:55 uh, well, not too useful, the name of the cardholder Jul 23 09:12:57 you need CVV code Jul 23 09:13:04 CVV is only required for some things Jul 23 09:13:12 if i want to go on a shopping spree, sure Jul 23 09:13:17 well, not here Jul 23 09:13:34 all transactions here are chip & pin and if it's not chip& pin Jul 23 09:13:45 then it requires all details from credit card Jul 23 09:13:51 chip&pin doesn't even exist at all in the US Jul 23 09:13:52 and some details that are not on card Jul 23 09:14:09 like password Jul 23 09:14:23 chip is non-existent.. we have something called debit, which is a card attached to a checking account Jul 23 09:14:36 yep Jul 23 09:14:39 we have that as well Jul 23 09:14:44 it can be run as a credit card (signature required only) or as a "debit card", which requires a pin number Jul 23 09:14:53 Heh, I'm actually quite unsuruprised at the amount of idiots using "Titans" power kernel that don't even know how to revert back to stock. Jul 23 09:15:08 well, here if card is chip& pin capable you have to use chip& pin Jul 23 09:15:11 it's highly insecure, and everyone has had their credit card compromised at some point Jul 23 09:15:12 Titan should not have made it so easy for people to use his kernel... Jul 23 09:15:26 or transaction is rejected Jul 23 09:16:10 ieatlint: if card is compromised who's responsibility is it? Jul 23 09:16:12 * psycho_oreos doesn't know why idiots would want to use titan's power kernel without fully understanding it can work as a double edged sword Jul 23 09:16:14 i've had experience with that :P Jul 23 09:16:29 i mean, who's paying for the losses? Jul 23 09:16:36 in denmark, they kept asking me to enter a pin for my CC... thankfully one cashier knew to tell me to just enter 0000 Jul 23 09:16:46 jacekowski: so essentally you dropped maintainership? I mean I care because if I start using it it'd probably be nice if it had a maintainer :) Jul 23 09:16:54 complicated question... simple answer is the merchant pays for the losses Jul 23 09:17:17 complicated answer is the merchant pays for it, but their account for accepting cards includes insurance which covers it Jul 23 09:17:18 ieatlint: i got asked for zip code Jul 23 09:17:37 zip code is common for gas stations only here Jul 23 09:17:45 and underground in NY Jul 23 09:17:54 and generally useless.. if i mug someone, i have their ID, which includes their zip code Jul 23 09:17:57 it's nice to enter my zip code from Paris, Fr in a gas station in US Jul 23 09:18:04 it think i'm located somewhere in texas Jul 23 09:18:19 well, england has letters in post codes Jul 23 09:18:23 plus if you go to see the gas station attendant, he can run your card without a zip Jul 23 09:18:27 so i had to just enter 12345 Jul 23 09:18:31 Corsac: you THINK? Jul 23 09:18:34 and he's getting minimum wage, so he doesn't give a fuck if it's stolen Jul 23 09:18:44 good morning guys Jul 23 09:18:54 ieatlint: well, here with cards it's always bank responsibility Jul 23 09:19:10 jacekowski: i'm not saying the US system makes sense :) Jul 23 09:19:21 in fact, i feel truly sorry for small shops Jul 23 09:19:26 ieatlint: only when you are responsible is when you have not notified bank withing 48h Jul 23 09:19:34 tybollt: no, but it does Jul 23 09:19:36 ieatlint: and then you are still only responsible up to £200 Jul 23 09:19:41 it's considered very impolite to use a card at a small store unless it's for a large transactions Jul 23 09:20:00 ieatlint: why? Jul 23 09:20:12 yeah, the standard policy here is that you have 30 days from the date of your last statement to notify the bank of fraudulent charges Jul 23 09:20:20 because of the fees Jul 23 09:20:22 ieatlint: but you do have chip & pins for some atms in large cities, don't you? Jul 23 09:20:24 gee, we just don't pay the taxes when paying with cash Jul 23 09:20:44 if i go to a small store and buy $10 worth of stuff, the standard rates are $0.35 per transaction and ~%3 of the purchase amount Jul 23 09:20:50 italy, the true land of the free Jul 23 09:20:50 ieatlint: well, here banks are responsible for any losses so they tend to care more Jul 23 09:21:18 hmm kmplayer plays videofile but the media app included not... missing codecs? Jul 23 09:21:23 so the store sees $10 become $9.35.. which definitely hits their profit margin Jul 23 09:21:50 at major stores, whatever, they expect it Jul 23 09:22:45 but small shops, they groan, and often enough will try to charge $0.50-$1.00 "credit card fees" to recoup their loss (which is technically against their contract with the bank, but a generally accepted reality) Jul 23 09:23:26 it's a messed up system Jul 23 09:23:32 but the banks set the rules Jul 23 09:23:37 heh, i've tried to pay for a pack of cigs + candies plus a public transport ticket here in warsaw with my cc.. due to the fact they can't do markup on the bus ticket, they refuse the whole deal Jul 23 09:23:42 ieatlint: well, here it's free Jul 23 09:23:57 Stskeeps: where are you from? Jul 23 09:24:10 jacekowski: i'm from denmark originally but living in warsaw Jul 23 09:24:16 why? Jul 23 09:24:24 jacekowski: you end up learning a whole etiquette about where and when it's acceptable to use a credit card Jul 23 09:24:25 I'm using fapman but how to disable the normal application manager? Jul 23 09:24:31 it's weird, but you get used to it Jul 23 09:24:44 jacekowski: tax's low, scandinavian pay and married to a polish girl Jul 23 09:24:52 so, why not Jul 23 09:24:53 :P Jul 23 09:25:07 ieatlint: well, here you just use card everywhere, because to use debit card is free for me and a seller Jul 23 09:25:15 ieatlint: and debit cards are most popular ones Jul 23 09:25:20 debit is usually free Jul 23 09:25:23 Stskeeps: tax is low? Jul 23 09:25:29 jacekowski: compared to denmark it's low Jul 23 09:25:38 22% VAT Jul 23 09:25:38 also, prices are 1/4 Jul 23 09:25:43 40% income tax Jul 23 09:25:43 DK has 25% VAT Jul 23 09:25:55 well 40% above 80k Jul 23 09:26:02 heh, where i live is a 9.5% sales tax :P Jul 23 09:26:11 +4% on restuarants Jul 23 09:26:20 Stskeeps: and warsaw Jul 23 09:26:25 Stskeeps: do you really like it? Jul 23 09:26:45 jacekowski: yeah, i like it so far - still trying to get more roots down here and get to know people Jul 23 09:27:07 how's your polish? Jul 23 09:27:18 not good, but i took at least one level Jul 23 09:27:33 if i had the means and the money to move out of the US, i would Jul 23 09:27:39 (just lived here since september) Jul 23 09:28:12 if i would ever come back to poland it will be very very far away from warsaw Jul 23 09:28:14 but i'm in the one of the most hospitable parts of the US, so i'm content Jul 23 09:28:55 warsaw is inhabitable for me Jul 23 09:29:13 jacekowski: i'm not very picky and scaringly, the public transport here is better than in denmark :P Jul 23 09:29:20 so there's positive things Jul 23 09:29:54 try driving a car in warsaw Jul 23 09:30:01 i've done that once Jul 23 09:30:25 yea, they certainly seem to have a law that you may only stick in the same lane for 10 seconds at a time Jul 23 09:30:50 Heh Jul 23 09:30:52 except ambulance lanes apparently Jul 23 09:31:11 there is one close to one of hospitals Jul 23 09:31:13 Keeps your mind on driving. It's like speed, the have bombs on each car .. Jul 23 09:31:34 that's constantly blocked by somebody Jul 23 09:31:57 i really do miss having good pakistani or turkish pizzas here though Jul 23 09:33:31 besides that, it's an experience to live abroad for the first time Jul 23 09:33:32 :P Jul 23 09:33:43 only thing that was good in warsaw was wolumen Jul 23 09:33:53 but that's not what it used to be **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 23 15:16:15 2010 Jul 23 15:32:52 device lock time Jul 23 15:32:59 /etc/osso-af-init/gconf-dir/system/osso/dsm/locks/%25gconf.xml Jul 23 15:44:09 (bat low warnings) ok, confirmed. Get warnings on PR1.2 when just idling with no charger attached Jul 23 15:44:53 well, you have been doing open bme work on it, right? Jul 23 15:45:37 odds are I won't achieve to hook up charger with detection failing raight now, so will postpone further investigations to another time when I get the detection failing Jul 23 15:46:39 Stskeeps: right, but that shouldn't break normal operation of bme, at very least on a "freshly" booted system Jul 23 15:48:09 don't hope tests with stopping bme and starting some charging scripts will latch up over battery removal and boot Jul 23 15:49:53 Stskeeps: it's more like those failed charger-detects leave half the system thinking it's on mains power and thus no batlow warning needed, while other half hasn't noticed it should start to charge battery now Jul 23 15:50:49 Stskeeps: after all it sounds sensible to suppress bat-low warnings during periods device is attached to USB-VBUS 5V Jul 23 15:52:28 you'd be annoyed if device keeps warning you about low battery while it's already hooked up to charger (charging doesn't necessarily mean low bat voltage condition is cured instantly) Jul 23 15:54:32 and I came to the comnclusion charger-detect failure isn't a hardware issue but more something like a race condition that causes some d-bus msg or kevent or whatever going to nirvana instead of doing its thing Jul 23 15:54:55 not impossile Jul 23 15:56:13 DocScrutinizer: i have considered submitting a bug report for 'insufficient power'... Jul 23 15:56:23 It should really be touch-cancel Jul 23 15:56:44 so probably while physical charging isn't triggered due to that lost msg, the bat-low warning still detects /sys has info about VBUS-5V attached and thus isn't firing Jul 23 15:56:51 'lo Milhouse Jul 23 15:56:59 hello Jul 23 15:57:12 bl00dy windows virus checker wanted a reboot. :) Jul 23 15:57:18 hehe Jul 23 15:57:56 SpeedEvil: ack, plus actually insufficient-state needs a clearly distinguishable new icon for battery in systray Jul 23 15:58:41 maybe the usual green move-upward changed to a red move-downward animation Jul 23 15:59:36 also battery_full_but_would_charge needs a different icon than battery_full_and_draining Jul 23 16:01:02 I gather the battery icon crap is closed, as usual? Jul 23 16:01:06 I assume so Jul 23 16:01:21 :-( Jul 23 16:02:51 also look at all the wasted real estate in system menu, to the right of the battery icon there. A natural place to add decent detailed info, like voltage, current, percentage numeric Jul 23 16:03:38 adding more load on the cpu Jul 23 16:03:50 DocScrutinizer, but then people might be overwhelmed. Jul 23 16:03:57 it should just show which things on your system take a lot of power. Jul 23 16:04:09 GAN900: OMG Jul 23 16:04:36 GAN900: maybe Nokia could ship N900 with a 500-pack of Valium? Jul 23 16:04:37 alarmd is open now no? Jul 23 16:04:55 DocScrutinizer: there's already cocaine in the touchscreen Jul 23 16:05:11 hehehe, that explains a lot Jul 23 16:06:26 I would also like GPS to have more info, and wifi Jul 23 16:06:51 yep Jul 23 16:06:56 wifi eye and gpsjini ? Jul 23 16:07:16 honestly, keeping the systray stuff closed is an issue Jul 23 16:07:41 for example - 'connect to Mynet' -> Icon goes gray - searching ->Yellow - found AP -> Orange - negotiated encryption -> dark green -> obtained IP -> Bright green - ping a test site works Jul 23 16:07:53 Same with GPS Jul 23 16:08:07 change colour, detecting a satellite, ... Jul 23 16:08:15 aiui you can add your own icons there (with limited functionality, like no animations allowed?), but there's no way to fix the genuine system stuff Jul 23 16:08:50 And of course similarly with signal strengths of wifi Jul 23 16:09:07 anyone test my GPS-from-scratch suite yet? :P Jul 23 16:09:10 for gps I thought it's halfway there Jul 23 16:09:12 luke-jr: no Jul 23 16:09:18 DocScrutinizer: not really Jul 23 16:09:26 DocScrutinizer: It flashes before it has lock Jul 23 16:09:39 DocScrutinizer: It does not indicate if it is not recieving a satellite signal at all Jul 23 16:09:53 aah yes, I see Jul 23 16:09:58 You will - in many conditions - get some satellite signal report - after a couple of seconds. Jul 23 16:10:09 If this does not happen - it means it will never lock as tehre is no signal Jul 23 16:10:17 yep Jul 23 16:10:51 no sense in standing there like a fool, holding your device up in the air for minutes Jul 23 16:11:41 the basic issue though is: why has all this to be closed? Jul 23 16:12:00 that remember me a Ep of Dragon ball , when Mr satan ask the ppl to raise they arm Jul 23 16:12:08 differentiation?? keeping up the crappy quality? Jul 23 16:12:15 for get a bit of Ki to build the genkidama Jul 23 16:12:22 they worked hard on it ... its theirs.. and when you work hard on something its theirs too :) Jul 23 16:12:29 DocScrutinizer: short story is that everything starts out as closed.. then it's opened up if anyone wants to take the discussion and effort Jul 23 16:12:45 Stskeeps: *nod* Jul 23 16:12:50 And it's sufficiently easy Jul 23 16:12:51 Stskeeps: and that's why Maemo fails; hopefully MeeGo will fix that core bug Jul 23 16:13:08 luke-jr: i hope so too. Jul 23 16:13:33 how can I know which package contains libQtMedi.so.1 ? Jul 23 16:13:37 the issue with the maemo and the n serie tables is that they make a Hardware that is "very" Open to mod but a very "closed" ( maybe no so now ) Jul 23 16:13:45 a least he very important part closed Jul 23 16:13:55 Andy80: apt-cache search Jul 23 16:14:11 How is that coming along btw, with N900 and Meego? Jul 23 16:14:30 Stskeeps: wanna test initcellmo for me? Jul 23 16:14:48 dunz0r: good, when we're not dealing with gcc bugs Jul 23 16:15:02 Stskeeps, is fixed now? Jul 23 16:15:04 luke-jr: sorry, on my weekend already, so no work Jul 23 16:15:08 pfft Jul 23 16:15:10 tripzero: it's making it's way through processes Jul 23 16:15:32 ahk. the last comment on the bug report said [something] was working Jul 23 16:15:39 but the bug is still "new" Jul 23 16:15:45 DocScrutinizer: no... it's not what I need. apt-cache searches only in packages name, not inside packages Jul 23 16:15:51 it's in devel:base, so that's first step Jul 23 16:15:56 luke-jr: Is there a way to do this without booting a clean system? how can one remove phonet without watchdog kicking in Jul 23 16:15:58 Stskeeps: Great. Is there something I as a linux proffesional can do to help with development? Jul 23 16:16:07 Andy80: oops, sorry then. No idea Jul 23 16:16:09 SpeedEvil: phonet and watchdog have no relation AFAIK Jul 23 16:16:10 Like testing or building packages and what not. Jul 23 16:16:12 dunz0r: #meego-arm Jul 23 16:16:23 dunz0r: and follow the work, i guess :) Jul 23 16:16:35 dunz0r: you do kernel development for a living? Jul 23 16:16:44 luke-jr: rmmod -f phonet triggers watchdog after some seconds Jul 23 16:16:55 SpeedEvil: no, rmmod -f just crashes a system, period Jul 23 16:17:01 luke-jr: Haha, no. I meant I work with server and the likes :) Jul 23 16:17:06 SpeedEvil: removing the other module I mentioned should be sufficient.. Jul 23 16:17:07 luke-jr: no, it doesn't Jul 23 16:17:15 dunz0r: that's not "Linux professional"! Jul 23 16:17:19 luke-jr: Like sysadmining and stuff, and I know my unixes inside out. Jul 23 16:17:21 dunz0r: that's "System administrator" Jul 23 16:17:27 luke-jr: the system takes some seconds - about the same as the watchdog - to die. Jul 23 16:17:34 luke-jr: ah - ok then Jul 23 16:17:52 SpeedEvil: the system still is linking to the phonet code, which you just removed Jul 23 16:17:58 luke-jr: I'm a professional, and I work with linux. Therefore, linux professional. Jul 23 16:18:07 SpeedEvil: when it tries to call a function in it, it crashes :P Jul 23 16:18:17 I thought it diddn't uqite do that Jul 23 16:18:30 dunz0r: Linux is a kernel. Professionals only should be caring about the kernel if they're kernel devs. :P Jul 23 16:18:41 but rewrote the call addresses so that any open calls to it oopsed Jul 23 16:18:44 SpeedEvil: I'm simplifying Jul 23 16:18:45 luke-jr: Ok, now you're just being picky. Jul 23 16:18:48 :) Jul 23 16:18:54 Unix proffesional then :) Jul 23 16:19:11 dunz0r: no, I'm just being hopeful to find more kernel guys :P Jul 23 16:19:29 luke-jr: If my C skills weren't so rusty maybe :) Jul 23 16:20:49 BUG! BUG! Jul 23 16:21:41 can someone please explain me why if I put: libqtm-multimedia in debian/control file, Extras Autobuilder replaces it with: libqt4-multimedia ? Jul 23 16:21:54 where are apt-get's logs? Jul 23 16:22:19 this is my control file: http://gitorious.org/lastgo/lastgo/blobs/master/LastGo/debian/control and this is package's description http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/lastgo/0.2.1-4/ Jul 23 16:22:34 Andy80, perhaps libqt4-multimedia "provides" libqtm-multimedia ? Jul 23 16:23:29 uhmmm... Jul 23 16:25:50 Andy80, is qtm even available in maemo ? Jul 23 16:26:07 I'm looking for it... Jul 23 16:26:33 both packages are available Jul 23 16:27:28 tripzero: but libqt4-multimedia doesn't have libQtMedia.so.1 Jul 23 16:27:35 so it's not the same Jul 23 16:27:51 probably a bug in the package then Jul 23 16:27:53 * tripzero looks Jul 23 16:27:59 * luke-jr notes there isn't always a 1:1 correlation between source and binary packages Jul 23 16:28:09 some src pkgs output multiple binaries Jul 23 16:29:33 tripzero: not in my package... I specified libqtm-multimedia (the right one) and Extras Builder automatically puts libqt4-multimedia... Jul 23 16:29:52 Andy80, i mean in the libqt4-m package Jul 23 16:30:07 if it claims to "provide" for a package that it really doesn't Jul 23 16:31:45 ah ok.. Jul 23 16:32:37 btw... looking better here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/lastgo/0.2.1-4/ in the list you can find libqtm-multimedia too.... and it's installed in my friend N900... so I don't understamd why he gets that error about that lib missing.. Jul 23 16:33:43 luke-jr: Also - I can't seem to find the modest source Jul 23 16:36:56 any idea how use the n800 ( or n900 ) as a touchpad device for pc running linux... similar to a draw tablet Jul 23 16:39:30 rlinfati, bluemaemo? Jul 23 16:39:45 nop.... work as mouse only Jul 23 16:39:47 iirc, you can use the n900 as a input device mouse/keyboard for another machine Jul 23 16:40:28 what do you mean by touchpad if it's not another mouse-device? Jul 23 16:41:31 ... Jul 23 16:41:34 as a wacom bamboo Jul 23 16:43:14 Is the pager less available for maemo btw? Jul 23 16:43:18 I can't find it anywhere. Jul 23 16:43:30 yes Jul 23 16:43:34 apt-get install less Jul 23 16:43:39 with the right repos installed Jul 23 16:43:45 try just extras Jul 23 16:44:10 SpeedEvil: Ok, I think I have those, and have tried previously but trying again just to be sure. Jul 23 16:44:44 the application manager does not show up some packages Jul 23 16:44:57 I know. Jul 23 16:45:16 Did apt-get install less and it says it can't find it. Jul 23 16:45:25 I have extras and extras-devel iirc. Jul 23 16:46:22 s/devel/testing/ Jul 23 16:46:22 dunz0r meant: I have extras and extras-testing iirc. Jul 23 16:46:31 Exactly :) Jul 23 16:47:01 sdk tools repo Jul 23 16:47:26 ShadowJK: Thanks. Jul 23 16:58:38 how can I get a list of packages I upgraded before the last reboot? (apt-get) Jul 23 17:00:55 http://www.medicaldaily.com/news/20100723/516/video-game-processors-help-lower-ct-scan-radiation.htm - interesting Jul 23 17:37:34 sorry for asking here, but are the 3 (5 incl blank) lines in debian/changelog supposed to be edited, or new lines for a new version appended, for version change of a package? Jul 23 17:38:23 DocScrutinizer: you never edit what's published. you only create new versions. Jul 23 17:38:50 that means copy the 5 lines, append, edit for new version? Jul 23 17:40:21 (like the name changelog of the file suggests :-P) Jul 23 17:41:24 there is actually a dh_ command for that Jul 23 17:42:17 DocScrutinizer: you want dch -i or smth Jul 23 17:42:44 heya :) Jul 23 17:42:47 hmm, I'll try editing anyway Jul 23 17:43:13 DocScrutinizer: try dch. it autoappends everything but changes text. Jul 23 17:43:30 is it interactive? Jul 23 17:43:37 DocScrutinizer: yeah, it's too easy to mess up a date or smth and the the autobuilder will barf Jul 23 17:43:47 mhm Jul 23 17:43:53 depends on your definition of interactive ;) Jul 23 17:44:01 DocScrutinizer: it will launch $EDITOR Jul 23 17:44:24 DocScrutinizer: heck, just run dch -i ! Jul 23 17:44:35 Hi. I bought angry birds level pack 2 from ovi and installed. where do I find the deb on the phone to save it for later use? Jul 23 17:45:09 ioan: you don't :) that's insecure Jul 23 17:45:26 ioan: you might go and give it to everyone around Jul 23 17:45:27 I have the last level pack saved Jul 23 17:45:35 yeah right Jul 23 17:45:58 hey from where i can get maemo firmware Jul 23 17:46:00 ? Jul 23 17:46:00 anyone knows? Jul 23 17:46:10 for e.g i try meego and fail Jul 23 17:46:12 tablets-dev.nokia.com -> h4xordood Jul 23 17:46:22 and then i want back maemo on n900 Jul 23 17:46:27 ioan: there's no _official_ way of saving it, i think Jul 23 17:46:35 can i do that ? or phone will be bricked ? Jul 23 17:46:40 anyone knows where the browser saves the debs before calling the app manager? Jul 23 17:46:52 ioan: /tmp? Jul 23 17:46:53 ioan, firefox Jul 23 17:46:58 ? Jul 23 17:47:09 thanks Jul 23 17:48:58 DocScrutinizer: you tried dch? :) Jul 23 17:50:36 Stskeeps, thanks :) Jul 23 17:52:28 * luke-jr ponders making a self-contained kernel+initcellmo+gps blob so people can test easier? Jul 23 17:52:33 slonopotamus: yes, thanks Jul 23 17:52:53 Hello, does anybody know how exactly osso-camera-ui determines the filenames of the images to be stored? Jul 23 17:53:46 DocScrutinizer: if you answered anything, i didn't receive it :P Jul 23 17:53:50 so the only solution for me is to find the deb somewhere on the internet and then save it? :-) I mean that is not stealing, I already paid for it and it's mine Jul 23 17:53:59 kW_: pretty sure osso-camera-ui is obsolete now Jul 23 17:54:15 slonopotamus: yes, thanks Jul 23 17:54:17 slonopotamus: yes, thanks Jul 23 17:54:19 slonopotamus: yes, thanks Jul 23 17:54:38 ioan: it isn't yours :) when smth is yours you can do anything you want with it Jul 23 17:54:49 slonopotamus_: he has a license Jul 23 17:54:58 slonopotamus_: Fair Use gives him the right to keep a backup Jul 23 17:55:36 luke-jr: yeah, (in some countries) Jul 23 17:55:54 luke-jr: but Fair Use doesn't force seller to provide easy ways of doing a backup Jul 23 17:56:56 how can i know which maemo release is installed on my phone ? Jul 23 17:57:05 Settings Jul 23 17:57:15 DocScrutinizer: to be honest, changelogs are crap. VCS are much better Jul 23 17:57:33 slonopotamus: apples and oranges Jul 23 17:57:34 luke-jr: oh, so which app actually takes the photos? Jul 23 17:57:39 kW_: fcamera Jul 23 17:57:51 luke-jr: wrong. Jul 23 17:58:05 slonopotamus: NO U Jul 23 17:58:15 ah okay got that :) Jul 23 17:58:24 thnx Jul 23 17:59:00 juergbi: does fcamera implement all features of osso-camera-ui? Jul 23 17:59:52 luke-jr: at least i knew how to handle them :D Jul 23 18:00:06 s/:D/:P/ Jul 23 18:00:06 slonopotamus meant: luke-jr: at least i knew how to handle them :P Jul 23 18:00:13 :D :P Jul 23 18:00:36 luke-jr: does fcamera implement all features of osso-camera-ui? Jul 23 18:02:39 kW_: nfc Jul 23 18:02:41 never used it Jul 23 18:03:31 luke-jr: now, having fcamera installed, when opening the camera lid, I just get a "operation failed" message Jul 23 18:03:41 kW_: I hear you need to reboot Jul 23 18:04:34 luke-jr: I did Jul 23 18:04:44 kW_: you have PR 1.2, right? Jul 23 18:05:06 yes Jul 23 18:05:10 oh well Jul 23 18:05:11 sucks to be you Jul 23 18:05:13 <.< Jul 23 18:05:24 ? Jul 23 18:05:59 kW_: that's "works for me", except it didn't work for me Jul 23 18:07:06 luke-jr: so it also does not work for you? Jul 23 18:07:14 no, but I use a custom kernel Jul 23 18:07:23 which is presumably not compatible with the binpkg Jul 23 18:07:31 Nokia N900 sucks even on freeswitch Jul 23 18:07:48 trumee: todl you Jul 23 18:08:09 luke-jr: i called the voice mail box and get jitters even there Jul 23 18:08:35 trumee: sounds like your network is at fault Jul 23 18:08:45 fcamera is more of a sample app isn't it Jul 23 18:08:46 luke-jr: i am still setting it up, but the initial impression isnt good Jul 23 18:08:52 enormousl useful for photographists though Jul 23 18:08:57 more so than the default camera app Jul 23 18:09:00 luke-jr: i turned wlan power saving off but that didnt help Jul 23 18:09:01 meh, *#-0.2 version is like 0.1 Jul 23 18:09:13 x.x Jul 23 18:09:20 luke-jr: what do you mean my network is a fault. i dont know how to correct it? Jul 23 18:09:32 trumee: mtr shows no issues? Jul 23 18:09:40 and still says "missing bugtracker link" Jul 23 18:10:06 luke-jr: how i check with that? Jul 23 18:10:10 ... Jul 23 18:10:19 hostA> mtr hostB Jul 23 18:10:43 disclaimer: everything I say assumes you're running Gentoo Jul 23 18:10:52 luke-jr: yup, i use gentoo :) Jul 23 18:10:57 on your N900 Jul 23 18:11:13 luke-jr: i wish so. Jul 23 18:11:22 trumee: don't. every other WM sucks Jul 23 18:11:35 and AFAIK the Maemo5 one isn't in Portage yet Jul 23 18:11:46 KDE just isn't designed well for fingers :( Jul 23 18:11:52 anyone using the silicon case for n900? is it any good? Jul 23 18:12:03 "the silocon case" Jul 23 18:12:08 um, silicon.. Jul 23 18:12:17 luke-jr: i like portage more than i like apt Jul 23 18:12:18 I only knew of cp321 Jul 23 18:12:22 ShadowJK, new compound. Jul 23 18:12:30 is that a brand? Jul 23 18:12:34 luke-jr: so where do i get mtr for N900? Jul 23 18:12:35 trumee: you're welcome to join me in my Gentoo port Jul 23 18:12:46 trumee: like I said, everything I say assumes you're running Gentoo on N900 Jul 23 18:12:47 :p Jul 23 18:12:52 luke-jr: you have a Gentoo port!! Jul 23 18:12:57 ShadowJK: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250582533190 Jul 23 18:12:58 :) Jul 23 18:13:09 not very well documented yet Jul 23 18:13:26 * luke-jr wonders if the Gentoo overlay guys ever added it to the main layman list Jul 23 18:13:41 luke-jr: hmm. where is it hosted? Jul 23 18:13:49 http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/gentoo-n900 Jul 23 18:14:00 just has overlay, kernel, and binpkgs for now Jul 23 18:14:12 please don't sue me for not hosting a source mirror Jul 23 18:14:14 <.< Jul 23 18:14:58 luke-jr: i need a memory card for this i guess? Jul 23 18:15:07 trumee: or partition the internal eMMC Jul 23 18:15:43 luke-jr: hmm. i will keep the eMMC as it is. is there a lilo for N900? Jul 23 18:15:50 no Jul 23 18:15:51 is it normal for http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/xxxxx to show the description of prev pkg version, when pkg is built but not yet imported? Jul 23 18:15:54 LILO has been obsolete for decades Jul 23 18:16:05 trumee: bootmenu-n900 Jul 23 18:16:05 luke-jr: how do you multiboot Jul 23 18:16:07 apt-get install bootmenu-n900 Jul 23 18:16:12 or something like that Jul 23 18:16:15 luke-jr: i see. Jul 23 18:16:18 opens up if you keep the kbd slide open Jul 23 18:16:22 on boot time Jul 23 18:16:54 luke-jr: could you create a binary for ekiga Jul 23 18:17:03 trumee: ...no Jul 23 18:17:12 I have no intention of installing GTK Jul 23 18:17:35 luke-jr: i need an alternative sip client Jul 23 18:17:46 Asterisk? <.< Jul 23 18:17:52 QuteCom? Jul 23 18:17:56 luke-jr: sip client, not a sip server! Jul 23 18:18:04 Asterisk has a Console device! Jul 23 18:18:27 luke-jr: QuteCom sounds interesting Jul 23 18:18:48 trumee: maybe try the Telepathy-Qt4 sample client ;) Jul 23 18:19:23 luke-jr: i am sick of telepathy Jul 23 18:19:28 O.o Jul 23 18:20:04 luke-jr: i need something which N900 doesnt use. Jul 23 18:20:10 :) Jul 23 18:20:11 I think I have a small issue Jul 23 18:20:12 QuteCom then Jul 23 18:20:17 I have the latest firmware Jul 23 18:20:18 luke-jr: so is Qutecom based on qt? Jul 23 18:20:22 ofc Jul 23 18:20:23 but I don't have skype Jul 23 18:20:41 kakashi_: Skype isn't an application, it's a protocol for the Phone app Jul 23 18:21:12 luke-jr: Qutecom isnt in portage? Jul 23 18:21:22 it is... I think Jul 23 18:21:54 trumee: btw, an alternate option to eMMC or SD is (what I did): eMMC for root, SD for swap+/var/tmp Jul 23 18:22:09 luke-jr, how do i add the protocol to the Phone App? Jul 23 18:22:14 kakashi_: Accounts Jul 23 18:22:23 luke-jr: my emmc is full of music atm Jul 23 18:22:27 trumee: o lol Jul 23 18:22:39 luke-jr, accounts doesn't show skype as a valid protocol Jul 23 18:22:44 good Jul 23 18:22:45 Skype sucks Jul 23 18:23:04 well, it might, but I have an account and loads of contacts Jul 23 18:23:05 :| Jul 23 18:23:22 I'd suggest telling them all to use something standard Jul 23 18:23:25 but nothing standard really works Jul 23 18:23:32 of course, neither does Skype... Jul 23 18:23:47 hmm... Jul 23 18:24:03 well, skype.com says go to ovi.com and search Jul 23 18:24:12 and ovi doesn't list skype Jul 23 18:24:15 :| Jul 23 18:25:10 luke-jr: qutecom depends on pidgin why? Jul 23 18:25:18 because Gentoo devs are retarded Jul 23 18:25:56 btw, does fring support skype? I know about the debate and the fight, but I am not sure of the outcome Jul 23 18:26:15 wtf is fring Jul 23 18:26:43 luke-jr: soomebody in #freeswitch suggests i need to disable preemption in ketnel Jul 23 18:26:56 *kernel Jul 23 18:27:05 http://www.fring.com Jul 23 18:27:14 trumee: somebody in #freeswitch sounds stupid, but don't tell them i said that Jul 23 18:27:34 baah! fring says "Skype" banned Jul 23 18:27:49 luke-jr: why do you think so? couldnt this be cpu load related Jul 23 18:28:12 meh, FAIL! hit F5 on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/starhash-enabler/0.1/ -> same comment sent again :-S Jul 23 18:28:19 trumee: I'm assuming you're following common sense consensus and don't have anything else running on your phone PBX Jul 23 18:28:43 luke-jr: yes. nothing running in the foreground Jul 23 18:28:45 but then who cares Jul 23 18:29:04 trumee: well, if there's nothing competing for CPU time... Jul 23 18:29:26 luke-jr: so if i install asterisk on N900 and connect N900 sip client to it, you reckon that will better? Jul 23 18:29:34 no Jul 23 18:29:36 hey tell me if i native install mee go on n900 and couldnt succed then i can get back my maemo working ? Jul 23 18:29:38 yes ? Jul 23 18:29:40 I meant configure asterisk to *be* a client Jul 23 18:29:49 h4xordood: depends on where Jul 23 18:29:51 h4xordood: you get to pick up the pieces Jul 23 18:30:14 luke-jr: yes, but that way i will loose the sip integration of N900 Jul 23 18:30:26 didnt understand Jul 23 18:30:27 ? Jul 23 18:30:30 o_O Jul 23 18:30:32 trumee: N900 SIP client works fine, anyway Jul 23 18:30:38 trumee: the problem is on your network or PBX Jul 23 18:30:42 funny thing though: update to 0.2 is already available via extras-devel, and webpage still doesn't know about neither new description, nor bugtracker link or l "Package imported" Jul 23 18:31:02 luke-jr: hmm. Jul 23 18:31:18 h4xordood: if MeeGo causes your N900 to explode or impregnate your daughter, you can't undo it Jul 23 18:31:23 i meant i can again install maemo from firmware Jul 23 18:31:30 * Mousey secures meego stickers from oscon goers Jul 23 18:31:32 ^_^ Jul 23 18:31:50 ? Jul 23 18:31:55 luke-jr: apt-get purge ? Jul 23 18:32:17 luke-jr: i can always try trixbox or something from the dvd Jul 23 18:32:55 huar? Jul 23 18:36:33 holla Jul 23 18:38:07 just found out while on phone u can't save number using dialpad - have to use separete window =( Jul 23 18:39:44 trumee: anyhow, Qutecom has *optional* support for libpidgin for text IM only Jul 23 18:39:56 trumee: its core is SIP with non-standard video support Jul 23 18:40:26 luke-jr: i am installing it on my gentoo box Jul 23 18:40:43 luke-jr: i did have a go at wengo long time ago Jul 23 18:41:00 luke-jr: you plan to create binary of that?/ Jul 23 18:41:10 trumee: Qutecom is the former Wengophone Jul 23 18:41:14 Wengo stopped sponsoring Jul 23 18:41:21 Hello, does anybody know how exactly osso-camera-ui determines the filenames of the images to be stored? Jul 23 18:41:34 luke-jr: (as fcam is not usable, I have to restate the question) Jul 23 18:41:56 I would start off by hitting it with strace Jul 23 18:42:08 A couple of hardcoded paths would not surprise me at all Jul 23 18:42:38 SpeedEvil: well, I've been already using strace extensively Jul 23 18:43:33 SpeedEvil: when switching the camera lid, the camera app starts and says "Memory not accessible. Unable to save content." Jul 23 18:44:35 SpeedEvil: however, strace does not reveal even access attempts Jul 23 18:45:20 does maemo have mediatomb yet? Jul 23 18:45:58 kW_: You can also save to mmc Jul 23 18:46:11 SpeedEvil: well, I don't have a MMC inserted (yet) Jul 23 18:46:14 kW_: Does ... Jul 23 18:46:28 /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/ exist? Jul 23 18:46:38 And is writable? Jul 23 18:46:57 IF you have the filessytem mounted as mass storage from USB, you can't take pictures to it. Jul 23 18:47:28 where are the transitions kept? Jul 23 18:47:37 SpeedEvil: http://pastebin.com/0187v1pC Jul 23 18:48:40 this seems to be weird, when I tried "apt-get install skype-ui-l10n-enus" Jul 23 18:48:52 SpeedEvil: note that I have much more space than usual on /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/ Jul 23 18:49:12 how? Jul 23 18:50:03 SpeedEvil: (have a look at http://pastebin.com/dfeJzE9F again) Jul 23 18:50:16 SpeedEvil: by using the internal flash as root filesystem Jul 23 18:50:49 luke-jr: how big a SD card do i need for your gentoo port? Jul 23 18:51:10 trumee: I would suggest at least 8 GB Jul 23 18:51:16 my eMMC partition is 10 GB Jul 23 18:51:25 my N810's MicroSD is 8 GB Jul 23 18:52:14 mooooooooooooooo Jul 23 18:52:36 uh! got myself disconnected Jul 23 18:54:52 RST38h: baaaaaah Jul 23 18:55:31 when I tried "apt-get install skype-ui-l10n-enus" it says skype-ui-l10n-enus has already been installed, while I can't see it anywhere in the accounts. Jul 23 18:57:52 kW_: ah Jul 23 18:57:59 kW_: But it's not. Jul 23 18:58:02 uh... did anybody of you try to reverse engineer closed-source N900 binaries? Jul 23 18:58:09 SpeedEvil: but what is not? Jul 23 18:58:09 kW_: The normal size of MyDocs is about 28G or so Jul 23 18:58:28 can I manually add skype onto the accounts? Jul 23 18:58:36 SpeedEvil: ah well, you are right... I mean I have a very wide root filesystem, and the images are supposed to be stored just on the root filesystem Jul 23 18:59:19 It's probably explicitly checking for /home being mounted. Jul 23 18:59:22 This is failing Jul 23 19:00:36 SpeedEvil: well... /home is just there...no need to complain... Jul 23 19:05:09 is there any other way of using skype? (some sip way?) Jul 23 19:05:21 kW_: sure. Jul 23 19:05:55 kW_: But in normal use - if /home/user/MyDocs is not mounted - that means that the camera cannot write to the fs, as it's been unmounted. Jul 23 19:07:17 SpeedEvil: well, I could create a separate ext3 filesystem and mount it over /home/user/MyDocs just for the purpose of having mounted something there... Jul 23 19:07:41 I'd try that Jul 23 19:08:00 it may also be looking for /dev/mmcn in /proc/mounts or something stupid Jul 23 19:21:29 SpeedEvil: well, having a "intermediate partition" between / and /home/user/MyDocs/RealMyDocs mounted on /home/user/MyDocs with just 20MB space and nothing more than symlinks in it actually seems to make the camera application happy... Jul 23 19:22:09 :) Jul 23 19:22:32 (I just created the intermediate partition as a loopback filesystem...) Jul 23 19:22:36 (well - in principle - :( in terms of closed software) Jul 23 19:23:19 so, now I need to achieve the next step: have a path from the UI to access the full root filesystem hierarchy Jul 23 19:44:15 Evening. Jul 23 20:06:32 Does anybody know which service within the N900 is responsible for indexing image files, sound files, video files? Jul 23 20:06:41 trackerd Jul 23 20:07:47 kerio: and how can I make trackerd just throw away its index and reindex everything? Jul 23 20:08:06 not sure Jul 23 20:08:11 there's a way though Jul 23 20:09:08 There was an application for it. Jul 23 20:09:24 (and also the command line command) Jul 23 20:10:00 hmm... and a related question: does trackerd follow symlinks? Jul 23 20:10:18 kW_, tracker-cfg is the application you want. Jul 23 20:11:07 D-Iivil: well, this app is not part of the package tracker-utils Jul 23 20:11:21 (it does not seem to exist on my N900) Jul 23 20:11:23 kW_, ? Jul 23 20:11:35 kW_, noup. Install it from repos. Jul 23 20:12:02 It's a 3rd party program for tracker configuration. Jul 23 20:13:41 * alteregoa eats a fnord Jul 23 20:14:01 ~wtf fnord Jul 23 20:14:05 Gee... I don't know what fnord means... Jul 23 20:14:28 D-Iivil: thank you... tracker-cfg seems to be a UI for /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg essentially, but it also has a "Rebuil databases" option :-) Jul 23 20:15:05 kW_, yep. That's what it is, and no problem :) Jul 23 20:16:31 could we make sanity check on maemo builder require a mandatory XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description changelog, for pkg version updates? Jul 23 20:18:02 DocScrutinizer, sorry for a dumb question, but what would that be for? Jul 23 20:18:47 HAM showing the info in this field instead of "Description:" field, if you *update* a package Jul 23 20:19:26 so it's basically the long missed allegedly nonexisting changelog feature in HAM Jul 23 20:20:09 DocScrutinizer, hmmm... why not just automatically take that from changelog -file and put it in that field during import to devel? Jul 23 20:20:25 I.E. HAM can do that, but pkg maintainers largely ignore it Jul 23 20:20:32 automaticly... fuck my english :D Jul 23 20:20:41 np. Jul 23 20:20:55 DocScrutinizer, no wonder. It's the first time I heard about it. Jul 23 20:20:55 well, that's the very least, yes Jul 23 20:21:23 DocScrutinizer: HAM FTL APT-GET FTW Jul 23 20:22:17 DocScrutinizer, for a developer it seems like stupid extra work to fill in the same info twice and editing the control file on every update. Jul 23 20:22:31 a tailored-to-fit changelog description in Maemo-Upgrade-Description would for sure better meet everybody's needs than copying the terse one line in debian/changelog though Jul 23 20:23:28 D-Iivil: (seems like) that's why I asked for making it mandatory, by rules check in builder Jul 23 20:24:03 developers think of a lot of things to be stupid extra useless Jul 23 20:24:39 hell you wouldn't even get decent manpages, if... wait we don't get manpages :-P Jul 23 20:25:07 DocScrutinizer, lol :D But since you're already writing the "what's changed" info to changelog -file I can't see why it cannot be automaticly taken from there. Jul 23 20:25:38 it can, but the changelog file suggests one terse line Jul 23 20:26:19 while usually you'd want to elaborate and be more verbose, when designing a text for endusers Jul 23 20:27:08 see it as a great opportunity to advertise new features in your pkg to endusers Jul 23 20:27:23 DocScrutinizer, I think the format of changelog is just perfect. It's more readable than a bible telling the same thing with more words... Jul 23 20:27:50 hmm this is new Jul 23 20:27:57 the chat crashes if I try to turn on Camera Jul 23 20:28:10 the CHAT?? Jul 23 20:28:15 call Jul 23 20:28:16 whatever Jul 23 20:28:20 ooh Jul 23 20:28:21 i don't always get the camera-ui on camera lid open Jul 23 20:28:35 But anyways, if there was a vote for this I would vote no to make it mandatory to fill / edit the extra-field on control file.... Jul 23 20:29:35 Mirror app fails too :p Jul 23 20:30:07 D-Iivil: I hope some guys from Nokia QA and general design are listening. Then maybe there will be no vote Jul 23 20:30:11 :-D Jul 23 20:31:14 DocScrutinizer: there's an additional button to "remap", btw Jul 23 20:31:21 battery cover open/close Jul 23 20:31:28 (how is that detected, btw?) Jul 23 20:31:38 honestly, if there were a vote, 95% would vote to kill HAM and do apt-get install in xterm Jul 23 20:31:40 DocScrutinizer, maybe Nokia SHOULD listen the actual users more often and put up polls... Jul 23 20:33:02 kerio: battery cover is detected by a hall sensor sensing the stand magnet in cover Jul 23 20:33:19 that's... brilliant Jul 23 20:33:23 * kerio is in awe Jul 23 20:33:51 the lens slider works by proximity sensor alike refective IR sensor Jul 23 20:33:59 reflective* Jul 23 20:34:17 kbd slider also is a magnet Jul 23 20:40:03 What is in the new Ovi update that I see today? Anyone know? Jul 23 20:40:42 I have confirmed that N900 can stand a fall from 1 meter without any scratches what so ever Jul 23 20:41:15 hi, i followed http://www.omappedia.com/wiki/Maemo_Getting_Started#Installing_kernel_modules Jul 23 20:41:18 onto pavement? Jul 23 20:41:34 and i get "[xkb] Can't rename /tmp/fileuPn1iZ to /var/cache/xkb/server-23C8F01A6FD67D4AC5B24BE983A88846620BED05.xkm, error: No such file or directory" Jul 23 20:41:37 luke-jr: no, just on a rock hard wooden floor Jul 23 20:41:41 :p Jul 23 20:41:42 i checked the rights Jul 23 20:41:56 now, can you confirm if it is indeed the case at 2 meters? Jul 23 20:42:08 ds3: he's playing n900fly of course Jul 23 20:42:09 but i cant find any file named xkm or xkeyboard-config Jul 23 20:42:24 2 metres is the next level Jul 23 20:42:33 (or did you actually mean [tonal] meters?) Jul 23 20:42:38 anybody knows how i can add a package after I generated the rootfs using makerootfs ? Jul 23 20:42:55 I mean about 39 inches Jul 23 20:43:07 pfft Jul 23 20:43:10 why not just say 3 feet then Jul 23 20:43:22 why not just say one meter? Jul 23 20:43:57 because a meter is more like 6 inches Jul 23 20:43:58 :) Jul 23 20:44:24 luke-jr: i mean 1 meter Jul 23 20:44:54 almost ra meters Jul 23 20:45:03 DrGrov: 1 meter is only 6 inches though Jul 23 20:46:07 luke-jr: 1 inch for us is 2,5 centimeters Jul 23 20:46:16 DrGrov: you mean centimetres? Jul 23 20:46:27 luke-jr: yes, 1 inch = 1 cm Jul 23 20:46:36 in which case, better to use inches and feet :) Jul 23 20:46:40 metres are just lame Jul 23 20:47:24 I guess he means 1 inch = 2.54 cm Jul 23 20:48:19 a meterton is almost a cm :) Jul 23 20:49:20 now I just wonder if luke is being dense on purpose... 1 meter would be 39 inches, not 6 inches, regardless of lameness... Jul 23 20:49:32 no Jul 23 20:50:15 39 inches = 1 metre = almost 7 meters Jul 23 20:50:58 1inch is 25.4mm Jul 23 20:51:11 1 meter = ~5.87 inches = ~0.49 feet = ~14.9 centimetres = ~1.49 decimetres Jul 23 20:51:56 1 meter = ~0.15 metres Jul 23 20:52:51 meter and metre are different spellings of the same word (us english vs british english) Jul 23 20:52:57 no Jul 23 20:53:00 different units Jul 23 20:53:02 http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/chores/units.html#hex_length Jul 23 20:54:01 meter Jul 23 20:54:01 n 1: the basic unit of length adopted under the Systeme Jul 23 20:54:01 International d'Unites (approximately 1.094 yards) [syn: Jul 23 20:54:01 metre, m] Jul 23 20:54:12 wolf^: your dictionary fails Jul 23 20:54:14 lj: did i see you talking about decoding the gps? Jul 23 20:54:19 toggles_w: working Jul 23 20:54:30 you have it working? Jul 23 20:54:32 love it when someone takes upon themselves to redefine well-known words to mean something else than everyone else means by it... Jul 23 20:54:34 toggles_w: yes Jul 23 20:54:34 or working on it? Jul 23 20:54:41 sweet.. Jul 23 20:54:56 can you talk to it? or only through nokia blob? Jul 23 20:55:09 villager: love it when idiots misspell words in a way that means other preexisting words Jul 23 20:55:18 toggles_w: no blobs at all Jul 23 20:55:24 toggles_w: everything but altitude Jul 23 20:55:28 luke-jr: you are the man Jul 23 20:55:31 oh.. crap.. Jul 23 20:55:31 well, altitude too, but don't know units Jul 23 20:55:39 wanna figure out units? :P Jul 23 20:55:41 oh.. got a test program? Jul 23 20:55:47 two Jul 23 20:55:49 I'll take it flying tomorrow and tell you Jul 23 20:55:50 one of which is a blob :P Jul 23 20:56:10 I take back "no blobs at all", I forgot that part Jul 23 20:56:11 luke-jr: me too Jul 23 20:56:24 villager: metre and meter are two different competing units Jul 23 20:56:27 oh, there are blobs? Jul 23 20:56:43 villager: popular idiots misspelling metre shouldn't force meter to get a new word Jul 23 20:56:48 toggles_w: sortof Jul 23 20:56:57 toggles_w: I have C code that I don't understand for one of them Jul 23 20:57:12 then it's not a blob ;-) Jul 23 20:57:14 toggles_w: I'm not willing to post it because it almost certainly contains private info in the comments Jul 23 20:57:20 just to you Jul 23 20:57:23 it's a blob to me Jul 23 20:57:25 luke-jr: so, according to whom is it that every single dictionary in the world is wrong? Jul 23 20:57:26 because I don't understand it Jul 23 20:57:39 mostly it's a bunch of incomprehensible char arrays Jul 23 20:57:50 regardless of what the dictionaries say... I am refering to the unit that short french dude pushed Jul 23 20:57:52 villager: the original definition of 'meter', see http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tonal-system/10991090 Jul 23 20:57:59 ds3: that's a metre Jul 23 20:58:05 and metres are lame Jul 23 20:58:07 :) Jul 23 20:58:11 I couldn't care what it is called Jul 23 20:58:20 all my measurements are in inches Jul 23 20:59:05 anything else is a translation. Jul 23 20:59:29 :P Jul 23 20:59:49 all my measurements are in meters or metertons, but I have to translate for computer programs :( Jul 23 21:00:48 luke-jr: funny thing is my N95 sip client works excellent on the same network/PBX. But N900 doesnt. Jul 23 21:01:45 obviously the n95 sip client is broken Jul 23 21:01:55 luke-jr: what!!! Jul 23 21:02:05 luke-jr: sorry Jul 23 21:02:17 toggles_w: why n95 is broken? Jul 23 21:02:36 * toggles_w pulls trumee's leg a bit further Jul 23 21:02:58 iirc it took 4 revisions to get it working Jul 23 21:03:20 toggles_w: i need a new wireless router, this linksys wrt54gl/ddwrt isnt up to the task Jul 23 21:04:01 there is a cheap belkin router available, but i am a bit scared of belkin Jul 23 21:04:29 don't fear the belkin Jul 23 21:04:31 embrace Jul 23 21:04:32 !@ Jul 23 21:04:34 although i only need a wireless access point, i will retain linksys as the wired router Jul 23 21:04:58 if it runs ddwrt, it's good Jul 23 21:05:19 well linksys wrt54gl isnt good Jul 23 21:05:25 and it runs ddwrt Jul 23 21:06:05 gotta find an open router Jul 23 21:06:27 what open router? Jul 23 21:06:33 MohammadAG51: nope. Still no news Jul 23 21:06:40 trumee: probably WRT-type Jul 23 21:06:40 trumee: dunno, research it a bit Jul 23 21:06:51 is there a pci/pci express card which i can plug into my linux box Jul 23 21:06:58 trumee: on the other hand, maybe WRT54GL support will mature soon Jul 23 21:07:13 trumee: plenty? Jul 23 21:07:17 luke-jr: you mean mature in N900? Jul 23 21:07:25 trumee: I mean Linux support for it Jul 23 21:07:31 if so, it'll hit OpenWrt before DD-Wrt Jul 23 21:07:51 crashanddie: then i can ditch my linksys router and use my computer as a router Jul 23 21:08:12 luke-jr: wrt54gl has been around for donkey years and you think code is not mature? Jul 23 21:08:15 trumee: wait, what? Jul 23 21:08:29 trumee: DD-Wrt doesn't use it yet AFAIK Jul 23 21:08:37 trumee: Broadcom wireless has only been around a few years Jul 23 21:08:38 trumee: you're asking for a "pci/pci express card which you can plug into your linux box"? Jul 23 21:08:43 and mainly just for client mode Jul 23 21:09:06 luke-jr: so openwrt is more mature? Jul 23 21:09:14 OpenWrt is more bleeding edge usually :) Jul 23 21:09:22 looks like they got it working as of 8.09_RC1 Jul 23 21:09:24 crashanddie: yes using which i can stream radio signals Jul 23 21:09:41 try to be more precise? Jul 23 21:09:46 luke-jr: is there gui for openwrt? Jul 23 21:09:56 trumee: third-party, X-Wrt Jul 23 21:10:08 crashanddie: i want to replace my wireless router with my linux box. Jul 23 21:10:09 trumee: WRT54GL has little flash though, so be conservative with what you install :) Jul 23 21:10:24 "Is there a card I can plug into my computer?" "Erhm, most probably" "Oh yeah, which one?" "Well, depends. What do you need?" Jul 23 21:10:27 unless you wanna hack in the MMC card mod Jul 23 21:10:43 http://oldwiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs(2f)Hardware(2f)Linksys(2f)WRT54GL.html?highlight=%28CategoryModel%29#head-dd43b50d854c2f0348686e6d7d165cdfd83a7e59 Jul 23 21:10:56 trumee: please go back and learn how to have a conversation. Jul 23 21:11:07 I'm tempted to call you "stupid" or "wanker", but I won't. Jul 23 21:11:16 crashanddie: wtf Jul 23 21:11:16 crashanddie: everyone else understood him obviously Jul 23 21:11:27 luke-jr: exactly. Jul 23 21:11:28 crashanddie: read your history before you start ranting about what you don't understand Jul 23 21:11:41 what history? I just joined Jul 23 21:12:09 exactly Jul 23 21:12:14 piss off Jul 23 21:12:18 lol Jul 23 21:12:26 crashanddie: ha ha Jul 23 21:12:47 The guy said "Can i put a card into my computer?" I said "yes", then he said he wanted to turn his computer into a router, which really doesn't help. Does he want wireless or wired? And if so, why use your desktop to do so? Jul 23 21:13:03 crashanddie: it was perfectly clear with context Jul 23 21:13:13 so anyhow Jul 23 21:13:28 anyone have a license I can buy? Jul 23 21:13:43 luke-jr: i think i will try openwrt Jul 23 21:13:43 what kind of licence? Jul 23 21:13:46 :D Jul 23 21:13:48 luke-jr: I have a licenst to kill, that I no longer need. Jul 23 21:13:56 SpeedEvil: srsly? what country? Jul 23 21:14:06 luke-jr: Atlantis. Jul 23 21:14:09 aw Jul 23 21:14:11 useless Jul 23 21:14:12 so, to get back off-topic, what kind of card? LAN or WAN? And why use a desktop for a router rather than a dedicated device to do so? Jul 23 21:14:32 * DocScrutinizer beats luke-jr down the street with a bunch of tonal meters Jul 23 21:14:45 I mean, aren't most wireless and ethernet cards supported these days under linux? Jul 23 21:15:06 crashanddie: he just wants to cut his wifi router out of the "my SIP isn't working" equation Jul 23 21:15:19 * luke-jr glares at DocScrutinizer Jul 23 21:15:22 ah Jul 23 21:15:29 DocScrutinizer: I actually have a tonal meter stick Jul 23 21:15:40 DocScrutinizer: and my wall schedule is in tonal units Jul 23 21:15:40 trumee: does SIP work at your neighbour's? Jul 23 21:15:53 crashanddie: it works fine on 3g Jul 23 21:16:02 not the question Jul 23 21:16:08 does it work at your neighbour's? Jul 23 21:16:09 crashanddie: but on wifi it is very jittery Jul 23 21:16:16 crashanddie: no idea. Jul 23 21:16:21 but you do get a connection then? Jul 23 21:16:40 crashanddie: he's already tried turning off PSM too Jul 23 21:16:55 crashanddie: yes, sip works fine. but audio is quite jittery. bug #10388 Jul 23 21:16:57 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Jul 23 21:17:04 interesting Jul 23 21:17:36 trumee: I'll set up SIP on my N900 tomorrow (need to download certificates and stuff) and comment on that bug if I can't reproduce it Jul 23 21:17:53 FYI, my ISP provides SIP and router is made them too Jul 23 21:18:04 s/them/by them/ Jul 23 21:18:04 crashanddie meant: FYI, my ISP provides SIP and router is made by them too Jul 23 21:18:08 crashanddie: FWIW, SIP works flawless here Jul 23 21:18:21 both 3G and Wifi Jul 23 21:18:51 hmm Jul 23 21:18:59 does the same happen with Skype Jul 23 21:19:00 ? Jul 23 21:19:01 luke-jr: i am thinking of changing to centos from gentoo. centos is used heavily by voip folks, so the kernel would be sensible Jul 23 21:19:11 crashanddie: dont care about skype Jul 23 21:19:21 trumee: Gentoo kernels work fine for me Jul 23 21:19:44 trumee: again, that wasn't the question Jul 23 21:19:49 hi, is this right place for development questions or there is another channel for developer questions? Jul 23 21:20:03 divan: development of what? Jul 23 21:20:11 luke-jr: yes, but i want to check all software things before i invest in a router Jul 23 21:20:13 divan: you can ask general dev questions here, it's fine. Please pastebin anything over a couple of lines, though. Jul 23 21:20:26 luke-jr: and you use fon router? Jul 23 21:20:27 trumee: I'd try OpenWrt next :) Jul 23 21:20:42 trumee: you never tried on another wifi network? Jul 23 21:20:43 trumee: I use the 2200 model La Fonera, which is probably no longer available, for WiFi Jul 23 21:20:48 trumee: it has 1 Ethernet port Jul 23 21:20:52 I work with rtcom and libaccounts libraries for maemo and there is a very big lack of documentation and examples. Hope to find a few wizards here :) Jul 23 21:21:09 luke-jr: me too Jul 23 21:21:18 divan: I've abandonned dev'ing for Maemo due to major lack of proper documentation Jul 23 21:21:18 divan: you are aware the Maemo platform is discontinued? Jul 23 21:21:25 luke-jr: stfu? Jul 23 21:21:40 crashanddie: pfft, same thing you said almost Jul 23 21:21:46 crashanddie: i have not test much some other wifi network. i am usually scared of using sip on other peoples network. Jul 23 21:21:58 I will rewrote my thing for MeeGo(actually I love QT), but for now I need it on Maemo. Jul 23 21:22:23 trumee: if you don't trust SIP to be secure enough, don't trust it on any network, including yours Jul 23 21:22:35 trumee: find some granny in the neighbourhood, who has a different modem, and try there Jul 23 21:22:40 Actually I already wrote almost everything I need but I want it to be userfriendly (for others users) and stuck with a few problems with libaccounts Jul 23 21:22:50 trumee: heck, go to your local starbucks or something Jul 23 21:22:54 haha Jul 23 21:23:06 So, no rtcom/libaccounts wizards here? ( Jul 23 21:23:17 or Panera... Jul 23 21:23:21 luke-jr: is this the one LA FONERA Wireless Router Model FON2100. WIFI, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FONERA-Wireless-Router-Model-FON2100-WIFI-/190420431782?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item2c55f133a6 Jul 23 21:23:25 is sip even encrypted ? Jul 23 21:23:30 trumee: no, that says 2100 Jul 23 21:23:34 trumee: 2100 was crap Jul 23 21:23:39 Macer: no Jul 23 21:23:44 luke-jr: oh ok. Jul 23 21:23:44 i figured it had to be encapsulated Jul 23 21:23:50 trumee: 2100 = overheat easily Jul 23 21:23:54 luke-jr: ah. i see. Jul 23 21:24:00 skype ftw hahahaha Jul 23 21:24:05 Skype sucks Jul 23 21:24:11 crashanddie: actually I love Maemo cause it allows me develop in my native languages and libraries. (Except of such closes things as rtcom) Jul 23 21:24:13 whatever Jul 23 21:24:14 skype works? Jul 23 21:24:15 :) Jul 23 21:24:19 crashanddie: not on N900 Jul 23 21:24:20 works for me Jul 23 21:24:24 works for me Jul 23 21:24:25 er Jul 23 21:24:26 luke-jr: i dislike skype too Jul 23 21:24:30 yes it does Jul 23 21:24:36 works great on n900 Jul 23 21:24:38 :) Jul 23 21:24:38 not for video Jul 23 21:24:45 even over 3G Jul 23 21:24:48 actually, mine is a 2100, works fine unless you leave it in a 100f attic Jul 23 21:24:53 dont use skype for video Jul 23 21:25:00 toggles_w: mine didn't :/ Jul 23 21:25:02 i use gtalk :) Jul 23 21:25:03 BTW, native skype support on N900 is a killer feature for some of my collegues - they bought N900 just because of that Jul 23 21:25:03 Macer: next we're going to hear that "Skype is evil because it's owned by a big bad multinational company" Jul 23 21:25:05 toggles_w: I had to hack on a fan Jul 23 21:25:15 divan: before they noticed it doesn't work? Jul 23 21:25:23 Why it doesn't work? Jul 23 21:25:25 luke-jr: last warning before you're banned Jul 23 21:25:30 crashanddie: no, Skype is bad because it's closed Jul 23 21:25:36 crashanddie: no. his last one was network hijacking of your bandwidth :) Jul 23 21:25:37 i think mine is still in the atic, it's in the states in a mates place, he casn't complained yet, it's online.. Jul 23 21:25:39 I use Skype on N900 each day heavily. Jul 23 21:25:41 hahaha Jul 23 21:25:42 crashanddie: in a bad mood or what? I've done nothing to warrant banning Jul 23 21:25:53 divan: me too. works great Jul 23 21:26:03 luke-jr: you're saying things don't work when they do. You're spreading fud. Please stop Jul 23 21:26:34 crashanddie: it doesn't. I've tried it with like 4 people by now... Jul 23 21:26:39 nfc how you get it to work Jul 23 21:26:48 lol Jul 23 21:26:54 * Macer goes to eat Jul 23 21:27:02 "The bad craftsman blames his tools." Jul 23 21:27:16 right... need to be a craftsman to video chat now? Jul 23 21:27:27 luke-jr, maybe you and 4 peoples don't have any internet connection in your town? No 3G/GPRS/EDGE, no Wi-Fi.. ) Jul 23 21:27:33 whatever, I'll stick to "Skype is bad because it's closed" then Jul 23 21:27:37 luke-jr: cant find 2200 model even on ebay :( Jul 23 21:27:38 no. you just tap "video chat" :) Jul 23 21:27:40 divan: all hard-wired Jul 23 21:28:02 divan: I have not spent too much time with skype, but when I try to make a call to a friend, I am told that I need t use "international format" for the phone number. If I change the callers phone number to internaltional format, won't it break my nortal call calling of them? Jul 23 21:28:02 luke-jr: "La Fonera FON2201 Wireless Router" ? Jul 23 21:28:07 Skype/Windows, Skype/Mac, and I don't know what the other 2 people were using Jul 23 21:28:10 trumee: maybe Jul 23 21:28:18 Cool. BTW, is it possible to use USB-RJ-45 with USB Host Mode enabled on N900? Jul 23 21:28:24 I would like to have such possibility. Jul 23 21:28:35 mtnbkr: yeah. that is one draw back Jul 23 21:28:41 divan: should Jul 23 21:28:43 Macer: oh crap, really? Jul 23 21:28:45 luke-jr: here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fonera-FON2201-Wireless-Router-/180534679945?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item2a08b49989 Jul 23 21:28:59 divan: USB host is not working yet Jul 23 21:29:07 no Jul 23 21:29:20 most phone companies accept int formats Jul 23 21:29:27 SpeedEvil, I saw the kernel with USB host enabled, released today. Didn't try yet. Jul 23 21:29:34 shouldnt be a big deal Jul 23 21:29:36 divan: it's really not that simple. Jul 23 21:29:43 so anyone know if liblocation is going to be supported under meego? Jul 23 21:29:46 huh? usb host? Jul 23 21:29:47 Macer: oh! ok, but the drawback then is that I would need to modify ALL of my contacts' phone numbers Jul 23 21:29:48 I understand Jul 23 21:29:50 trumee: AFAIk that should work... Jul 23 21:29:50 cool Jul 23 21:29:56 divan: also - where was this announcemnt - there have been many unfortunate incorrect announcements before. Jul 23 21:29:59 luke-jr: thanks Jul 23 21:30:04 trumee: La Foneras *are* locked by default, but that one sounds pre-rooted Jul 23 21:30:12 goddam it ... X-Fade ... wiki.... :) Jul 23 21:30:13 I'l find a link, wait a second Jul 23 21:30:14 Context - I'm one of those involved in the details of geting USB host working. Jul 23 21:30:21 And have heard nothing Jul 23 21:30:29 http://n900.tannerlab.com/kernel/usbhost/ Jul 23 21:30:30 luke-jr: uh, on wiki, Routers known to be incompatible with PSM mode Fon2200 ? Jul 23 21:30:53 oops, it's not today release, sorry Jul 23 21:31:04 trumee: ? Jul 23 21:31:05 luke-jr: http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_power_saving_mode Jul 23 21:31:15 luke-jr: at the bottom of the page Jul 23 21:31:19 IIRC that was a release for testing some asplects of the USB host system, and diddn't work as hoped Jul 23 21:31:29 ok, I got it. Jul 23 21:31:34 Macer: Hmmm, maemo phone app will allow ONLY numeral is the phone number fields, so I can not type a + how to get past this? Jul 23 21:32:02 00? Jul 23 21:32:09 + is 00 Jul 23 21:32:27 Well, now I'm going to find developers of libaccounts and beg them to share a little bit of documentation or, at least, answer to my questions. Jul 23 21:32:50 really? wow... there is no way in the world I would have ever guessed that... lol Jul 23 21:32:57 This 'closed part in open source' is kinda weird Jul 23 21:33:02 trumee: no idea; works fine for me on N900 Jul 23 21:33:08 trumee: on N810 I did disable PSM tho Jul 23 21:33:21 divan: Maemo is mostly closed Jul 23 21:33:36 kerio: also, how do I do a comma like when adding 2 second wait for answering machine etc, then press extention # Jul 23 21:33:48 dunno Jul 23 21:34:04 (hostmode) so am and have I Jul 23 21:34:10 kerio: some phone numbers I have that I imported, have ( and ) and spaces and commas and it all works fine, but I cna not manually recreate it for new numbers Jul 23 21:34:21 mtnbkr: ** does + and p Jul 23 21:34:49 wtf is (? Jul 23 21:35:11 <_llll_> they are not part of the number Jul 23 21:35:11 kerio; parenthesis areounf the US area code. Jul 23 21:35:15 mtnbkr: of course not. You can dial your own country code in your own country without any problem Jul 23 21:35:21 <_llll_> just indicate parts that can be omitted if you are local Jul 23 21:35:37 kerio: where is 'p' on dialer?? o.O Jul 23 21:35:39 yes, it would've been nice if the phone numbers allowed even the simplest separators, such as spaces Jul 23 21:35:40 i think that's non-standard Jul 23 21:35:41 :| Jul 23 21:35:44 DocScrutinizer: *** Jul 23 21:35:45 crashanddie: not in the US... Jul 23 21:35:54 eh? Jul 23 21:35:57 Why not? Jul 23 21:35:59 actually failed to get that so far Jul 23 21:36:01 no idea Jul 23 21:36:06 phone companies here are idiotic Jul 23 21:36:08 you can't call +1 in the US? Jul 23 21:36:13 not if it's local Jul 23 21:36:20 if it's local they tell you to hang up and dial without i Jul 23 21:36:20 double "eh?" Jul 23 21:36:21 it Jul 23 21:36:26 kerio: the * is NOT accepted. :( only numerals Jul 23 21:36:28 lmao Jul 23 21:36:39 backass country Jul 23 21:36:43 >_< Jul 23 21:36:49 mtnbkr: huh? Jul 23 21:36:59 mtnbkr: there's one solution Jul 23 21:37:01 crashanddie: and it is pissing me off, 'cause I can not use skype. Jul 23 21:37:13 DocScrutinizer: you can also just type p Jul 23 21:37:14 key 'p' actually there :-D Jul 23 21:37:17 mtnbkr: have one skype number, and one local number Jul 23 21:37:25 with the hw kbd Jul 23 21:37:36 mtnbkr: or the better solution: move to a country where they understand how phones work Jul 23 21:37:37 missing 'w' :-S Jul 23 21:37:39 crashanddie: yeah, that is what I was thinkin... wowo great "integration" Jul 23 21:37:58 mtnbkr: that's not the phones fault, it's the operator Jul 23 21:38:00 * luke-jr ponders if telepathy-spirit can run under qemu-arm on other platforms... :p Jul 23 21:38:01 what's w? Jul 23 21:38:11 wait for connect Jul 23 21:38:17 oh Jul 23 21:38:18 mtnbkr: I have one number for all my contacts, and call them through skype or phone, doesn't matter Jul 23 21:38:18 kerio: my N900 subs a 0 "zero" for the p or any char on the top row that is a number Jul 23 21:38:20 cute Jul 23 21:38:28 mtnbkr: fn+"0" Jul 23 21:38:29 or wait for silence - not sure about it right now Jul 23 21:38:30 crashanddie: I know, that is what I want :) Jul 23 21:38:33 and you get p Jul 23 21:38:43 or keep pushing the "*+" virtual key Jul 23 21:38:47 mtnbkr: well, don't blame the integration then, call your operator and yell Jul 23 21:38:58 mtnbkr: could in theory write a telepathy module that proxies them Jul 23 21:39:06 crashanddie: ahhaha Yeah, like At&T will listen Jul 23 21:39:07 crashanddie: he could blame telepathy-spirit for being closed ;) Jul 23 21:39:18 luke-jr: international in the US is 011, yeah? Jul 23 21:39:24 crashanddie: dunno, I use voip Jul 23 21:39:32 luke-jr: whereas in most of the rest of the world, it's 00 Jul 23 21:40:04 crashanddie: I *think* if you try to call a US number as an international one, it might work and bill $1/min Jul 23 21:40:37 ok, 'p' is waiting for connect. So that's not bad so far Jul 23 21:40:57 Was the big announcement from the nokia conversations blog about Fcamera? Jul 23 21:41:12 blizzow: probably Jul 23 21:41:12 luke-jr: hahahaha that's horrible Jul 23 21:41:19 so... i can't reproduce the apple-death-grip on the n900 Jul 23 21:41:27 tripzero: why not? Jul 23 21:41:36 tripzero: i can reproduce it quite easily Jul 23 21:41:36 dunno. i' Jul 23 21:41:39 :( Jul 23 21:41:39 tripzero: you have to be sure you're pressing on the power button Jul 23 21:41:48 where do you hold it? Jul 23 21:42:01 hold on, I got a tutorial Jul 23 21:42:01 tripzero: landscape, with both hands Jul 23 21:42:03 i tried death gripping on the lower part, upper part and both Jul 23 21:42:12 oh, landscape... Jul 23 21:42:13 lemme try Jul 23 21:42:17 luke-jr: nope... I just got the cute little song and "your call could not be completed as dialed" message Jul 23 21:42:26 you know, when using it as a *tablet* Jul 23 21:42:28 http://mynokiablog.com/2010/07/17/how-to-hold-your-nokia-n900-and-make-it-drop-calls/ Jul 23 21:42:38 DocScrutinizer: wait fr connec is OK, but need a pause. Jul 23 21:42:58 in a lead glove? Jul 23 21:43:04 it probably works as a pause too Jul 23 21:43:11 luke-jr, haha Jul 23 21:43:12 nice Jul 23 21:43:25 Ok, so there is no "one number format" I can use so that both Skype and my ATA&T cell calls to the same number work? Jul 23 21:44:18 mtnbkr: you should use the MSISDN Jul 23 21:44:34 I can do death-grip, but only if I'm like 10km away from transmitter Jul 23 21:44:49 well hold it with both hands Jul 23 21:44:59 But in proper conditions I can't move it even with both hands Jul 23 21:45:01 and then you can make it go to 2g quite easily Jul 23 21:45:42 It mostly does go to 2g here when i get calls :P Jul 23 21:45:49 i'm in 2.5 and i don't see any bars dropping Jul 23 21:45:49 mtnbkr: kerio yep works as pause (too? not so sure about wait-for-connect anymore) Jul 23 21:46:03 but again, that's 3km beyond the range my operator's map says is available Jul 23 21:46:41 AH! I got it! Shift S gives + and +1 areacode exchange number works for both! Jul 23 21:47:02 Fn S? Jul 23 21:47:06 mtnbkr: just s works Jul 23 21:47:26 ShadowJK: I used shift S, but maybe just S works too Jul 23 21:47:28 also, * on the virtual keyboard Jul 23 21:48:12 Yeah that makes sense, every non-qwerty keypad has + on * Jul 23 21:51:35 +, p, *, 0..9, # working. Missing A, B, C, D, \, (comma), w Jul 23 21:52:47 seems 'p' is a substitute for ',' Jul 23 21:53:10 abcd...? Jul 23 21:53:15 wtf Jul 23 21:53:41 except when using it with international access prefixes that require you to wait 5s after prefix, befor continuing to dial Jul 23 21:53:55 do they even make sense for cellular calls? Jul 23 21:54:00 aren't they DTMF tones? Jul 23 21:54:01 maybe that's just not applicable to GSM Jul 23 21:54:22 ABCD are dtmf Jul 23 21:54:41 the unknown fourth col Jul 23 21:54:57 heh Jul 23 21:55:07 DocScrutinizer: you're a phreaker! Jul 23 21:55:13 ever been Jul 23 21:56:15 comma is pause for 0.5s iirc, and 'w' is "wait for silence" Jul 23 21:57:03 so also a dmtf command basically, though a passive one Jul 23 21:59:24 nice Jul 23 21:59:49 BME completely failed to realize the capacity of my new battery Jul 23 22:00:04 What battery? Jul 23 22:00:27 microlith: you expected anything else?? Jul 23 22:00:53 I expected the charge meter to be somewhat accurate :( Jul 23 22:01:08 bme doesn't even have any means to theoretically detect size of your new battery Jul 23 22:01:34 fully recharge it and fully discharge it Jul 23 22:01:38 until it goes through a full cycle or so? Jul 23 22:01:50 and there's no reliable method to detect state of charge of a newly inserted battery Jul 23 22:01:54 as Nokia afaik hasn't defined any other meaningful values for BSI other than 100kR for BL-5J Jul 23 22:02:46 * alterego starts working on his super duper camera app. Jul 23 22:03:07 if I could attach multimeter to measure resistance I could give you a wide curve with the thermistor in mugen :) Jul 23 22:03:42 ShadowJK: the beat-em-up engine? Jul 23 22:03:47 no use in that, as it's not supposed to be a thermistor :-P Jul 23 22:04:25 So I actually wonder how mugen came up with this Jul 23 22:04:42 DocScrutinizer, sure, but it's a varable resistor and I can stop/start bme and read out a new design.capacity value each time :) Jul 23 22:05:05 err Jul 23 22:05:18 maybe they just read some random forum post/blog claiming it's a thermistor Jul 23 22:05:29 and put in one Jul 23 22:05:51 so you should attach a set of resistors and create a table of reported design cap vs R Jul 23 22:06:20 sounds easier to just change temperature Jul 23 22:06:51 yep, so what's the problem in probing the resistance then, with same temperature? Jul 23 22:06:57 no DVM? Jul 23 22:07:08 'Afternoon Jul 23 22:08:20 so, anybody can recommend any decent music store? Jul 23 22:08:33 with client software for maemo ideally Jul 23 22:08:41 I don't know of any Jul 23 22:08:52 jacekowski: Transmission bittorrent client. Jul 23 22:08:55 of any what? Jul 23 22:09:00 My N900 is refusing to pick up a cell signal for some reason. Is there a kick-in-the-butt command to reset things without rebooting? Jul 23 22:09:17 jacekowski, Jamendo has some good stuff, and it's all free Jul 23 22:09:30 Amazon was doing one where you could get files that actually work (plain mp3) through a browser.. but it's US only :/ Jul 23 22:09:42 no Jul 23 22:09:45 jaem_n900: check dual for modem mode setting in system menu Jul 23 22:09:53 i'm looking for normal music store Jul 23 22:09:58 not for jamendo Jul 23 22:10:12 jaem_n900, check settings - phone, network mode dual, autpmatic operator selection Jul 23 22:10:39 DocScrutinezer: It's still checked. I haven't touched the settings. It just dropped out on the bus a few hours ago and hasn't come back since. :S Jul 23 22:10:44 there is a way of rebooting just a modem Jul 23 22:10:57 either by gpio if it's hard stuck Jul 23 22:11:06 or via phonet if it's still working Jul 23 22:11:19 nolo is doind that on boot Jul 23 22:11:23 Sometimes just going to offline mode for a minute helps Jul 23 22:11:24 doing* Jul 23 22:11:29 anyway never should be necessary Jul 23 22:11:42 ShadowJK: yep, but ^^^ Jul 23 22:11:43 yeah, modem has it's own watchdog Jul 23 22:12:15 that brings me to a thing Jul 23 22:12:32 i'm pretty sure that scheduler they use on modem isn't theirs Jul 23 22:12:45 mhm Jul 23 22:12:51 DocScrutinizer, sure, but those bugs are never fixed. They're stuck in an infinite loop of nokia blaming operator for misconfigured network, and operator blaming nokia for crap firmware. Jul 23 22:13:08 yep, lol Jul 23 22:13:14 ShadowJK, I tried toggling it offline. Jul 23 22:13:29 jacekowski: Jamendo has a Maemo streaming/download client. Jul 23 22:13:44 i'm not interested in jamendo Jul 23 22:14:19 * DocScrutinizer wonders what becamo of allofmp3 Jul 23 22:15:36 * ShadowJK wonders why the hell there's still no easy way to legally buy music, that's easy and that works and that isn't too incompetent to take payment, it's 2010 already ffs Jul 23 22:16:02 ack Jul 23 22:16:37 and please keep your 92k-mp3 crap, and give flac Jul 23 22:16:59 I am worried. I used my N900 extensively today until the battery was drained. when I was back home I charged it. but after half an hour, the indicator is still orange light. and I am not able to switch it on!! Jul 23 22:17:40 it's in emergency charge mode Jul 23 22:17:41 use wallcharger, umplug and replug if light goies off, after 30min Jul 23 22:18:01 which means that battery is really flat Jul 23 22:18:01 do NOT try to boot Jul 23 22:18:13 emergency charge is somewhat broken Jul 23 22:18:17 it charges reeeeeeeally slowly Jul 23 22:18:27 nope it doesn't Jul 23 22:18:46 it does when connected to PC Jul 23 22:18:52 it's emergency charge Jul 23 22:19:00 on original charger it takes 550mA Jul 23 22:19:06 DocScrutinizer: normal charging is twice as fast Jul 23 22:19:15 jacekowski, I am using the wall charger Jul 23 22:19:16 so what? Jul 23 22:19:22 smhar: then wait Jul 23 22:19:28 use wallcharger, umplug and replug if light goies off, after 30min Jul 23 22:19:33 smhar: ^^^ Jul 23 22:19:38 smhar: phone will boot itself when it's ready Jul 23 22:19:43 do NOT try to boot Jul 23 22:20:21 I replugged, and now there is no light. I am waiting Jul 23 22:20:41 hmm, no light actually might be good sign Jul 23 22:20:43 smhar: IF LIGHT GOES OFF Jul 23 22:20:47 smhar: not before Jul 23 22:20:51 if it comes up in 2 minutes Jul 23 22:20:59 smhar: now battery isn't charged enough for phone to boot Jul 23 22:21:11 smhar: but it will not go to emergency charge mode again Jul 23 22:21:20 jacekowski: should Jul 23 22:21:36 if nothing else helps, remove battery for 1 min Jul 23 22:21:50 there! are! four! lights! Jul 23 22:22:08 yes, and helicopters Jul 23 22:23:18 my son and i are watching the never ending story Jul 23 22:23:39 i never realized how twisted it was Jul 23 22:26:23 i need somebody to try to boot phone with id pin grounded and serial console enabled and usb-host-mode enabled in cal Jul 23 22:26:32 and something connected to serial console Jul 23 22:26:42 and see if it will detect usb host Jul 23 22:27:35 smhar: remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) an flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with unplugging and replugging charger to device Jul 23 22:28:33 ~flatbatrecover is Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) an flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with unplugging and replugging charger to device Jul 23 22:28:34 DocScrutinizer: okay Jul 23 22:28:47 ~flatbatrecover Jul 23 22:28:48 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) an flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with unplugging and replugging charger to device Jul 23 22:32:19 docscrutinizer, battery remove for 1 min. replaced and charger replugged. immediately there was a vibration and welcome screen with 'Nokia', then it was off again. now the indicator is flashing amber light. Jul 23 22:32:54 let it charge, I'd suggest Jul 23 22:34:19 docscrutinizer, Ok.. I need to go to sleep so I will let it do its work. I am having a serious problem with battery life, that needs to be investigated later Jul 23 22:34:29 though you *probably* also could 'switch on' now, but odds are device is eating more battery than it's charging when on Jul 23 22:35:24 thanks docscrutinizer, and bye for now Jul 23 22:35:27 hmm, you obviously have a nasty app that causes device to eat power like there's no tomorrow Jul 23 22:42:32 going back to my id pin grounding Jul 23 22:42:44 lol Jul 23 22:42:45 where i can get microusb cable with that pin grounded or something? Jul 23 22:42:56 screwit Jul 23 22:43:00 why? Jul 23 22:43:07 get a micro-mini adapter Jul 23 22:43:27 does these adapters have that pin grounded? Jul 23 22:43:34 then get a mini-extension. Those I got have 5 wires ;-) Jul 23 22:43:57 you can do it then Jul 23 22:44:01 nope, but they *should* be 5 wire full connect Jul 23 22:44:20 (the micro->mini) Jul 23 22:44:45 the 4 inches cable type micro->mine I got is 4 wire Jul 23 22:44:49 :-(( Jul 23 22:45:45 http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10027 Jul 23 22:46:08 btw. i've found a bug with headphones and phonecalls Jul 23 22:46:11 headset* Jul 23 22:46:21 when somebody called me and i plugged in headset Jul 23 22:46:29 proximity sensor was still active Jul 23 22:46:35 yep Jul 23 22:46:53 heh Jul 23 22:47:50 jacekowski: be happy it's not detecting the transient short on mic ring as a press of holdbutton and releases call, on plugin Jul 23 22:48:13 XP Jul 23 22:54:48 jacekowski: anyway ID is connected to GAYA only and not supposed to help a lot in switching musb controller core Jul 23 22:55:51 maybe gaia is doing some shit and passing it to musb controller Jul 23 22:56:34 besides, i think it's just pin that nolo is reading and then configuring usb properly Jul 23 22:56:38 This FCam stuff is nice, though the examples aren't very Qt at all .. Jul 23 22:56:57 I'm writing my own viewfinder widget at the moment. It's quite fun :) Jul 23 22:57:15 Going to have nice pretty transparent overlays to create my UI with Jul 23 22:58:08 I think I'll model it slightly on the built in camera application but obviously with the full customizations we have available through the FCam API's. And then I'll work on a filter plugin interface so I can write some neat filters I can distribute/package seperately if needed. Jul 23 22:59:15 camera app that can save to png would be nice Jul 23 22:59:21 the right way to do the filters is really DSP Jul 23 22:59:24 but it's hard Jul 23 22:59:39 jacekowski: I'll bare it in mind, configurable file format conversions. Jul 23 22:59:41 jacekowski: it's in practice probably not very imporant. Jul 23 22:59:56 jacekowski: gaya can not pass anything to musb core directly, needs to go via cpu Jul 23 22:59:58 jacekowski: the camera cannot physically resolve 5MP - the lens is not large enough. Jul 23 23:00:02 s/conversions/saving format/ Jul 23 23:00:04 alterego meant: jacekowski: I'll bare it in mind, configurable file format saving format. Jul 23 23:00:05 so no real use in ID pin Jul 23 23:00:06 DocScrutinizer: why gaya? Jul 23 23:00:22 And I need to do a resolution test at some point Jul 23 23:00:24 DocScrutinizer: well, nolo is checking it Jul 23 23:00:59 well nolo is sw, so what is it nolo does to musb core and PHY that musb_core.c can't? Jul 23 23:01:32 nothing Jul 23 23:14:35 According to docs the Native resolution of the N900's camera is 2592x1968 Jul 23 23:14:42 SpeedEvil: ^ Jul 23 23:15:27 alterego: sounds about right Jul 23 23:15:46 that's why there's black edges on left/right in Camera Jul 23 23:16:39 Really? I see them at the top/bottom .. Jul 23 23:16:46 I don't see any on the left or right edges. Jul 23 23:17:34 left/right in landscape Jul 23 23:17:44 also, I think it doesn't default to 5 MP Jul 23 23:17:48 alterego: The native resolution of the sensor is that, yes. Jul 23 23:18:08 alterego: The lens cannot physically resolve the incoming light onto independant pixels though. Jul 23 23:18:41 hello all Jul 23 23:18:50 Heh min image size: 160x120 Jul 23 23:18:53 Nice ... :D Jul 23 23:18:57 I wonder what they look like .. Jul 23 23:26:11 jacekowski: musb core is waiting for a msg from PHY saying "ID grounded", via whatever interface those 2 chips are connected. This makes musb core enter host mode, and emit an IRQ to CPU to let driver know about the fact. N8x0 is doing sw controlled hostmode by sending a cmd *to* phy that makes phy *echo* a fake ID-gnd msg. 1707 doesn't know how to do that, and hw doesn't have ID of PHY connected, so only thing we can do is use force_host Jul 23 23:26:13 bit in musb core debug register Jul 23 23:28:33 so explain then why there is full usb host mode code in nolo Jul 23 23:28:39 or walk musb core thru a number of faked events on USB to simulate a HNP handover Jul 23 23:28:52 heritage? Jul 23 23:29:03 it doesn't look like heritage Jul 23 23:29:05 from whatever times Jul 23 23:29:12 at least not from different phone Jul 23 23:29:17 maybe different version Jul 23 23:29:30 but that would mean there was n900 version with host mode working Jul 23 23:29:52 There is rememnants int he code of an alternative phy IIRC Jul 23 23:29:54 remember N900 not always had 1707. There are surely some N900 protos somewhere that use GAYA PHY and probably have no problem with hostmode Jul 23 23:30:45 why they added that chip anyways? Jul 23 23:30:58 charger detection, recovery charging Jul 23 23:31:00 INFO: Sensor Manufacturer: Nokia Jul 23 23:31:00 INFO: Sensor Model: Nokia N900 Jul 23 23:31:03 Teeheehee Jul 23 23:31:09 Well, that was useless :) Jul 23 23:32:01 emergency charging isn't dependant on 1707 Jul 23 23:32:11 fast emergency charge is Jul 23 23:32:33 and as i've noticed they had different charger chip as well Jul 23 23:33:56 well, probably the other charger chip didn't play nicely with 1707 Jul 23 23:35:05 anyway rumour has it fist version of GAYA had no charger-detect so they needed another PHY Jul 23 23:35:12 first* Jul 23 23:36:05 when did it became GAYA? Jul 23 23:36:37 by now they probably happiöly could revert to original design, as GAYA knows to detect charger meanwhile. Isn't that a sarcastic joke of reality? Jul 23 23:37:11 if it is like other setups, the 1707 to OMAP3 should be a ULPI bus Jul 23 23:37:21 it is Jul 23 23:37:56 that's why swapping PHY was simple. GAYA has ULPI as well Jul 23 23:38:27 so it should be a matter of implement the hostmode command in the MUSB driver and have that send a command to the PHY Jul 23 23:38:51 so in the end i've got a used Motorola Milestone rather than a used N900. wonder if i made the best choice. i guess i could always sell it and get an N900 once i know Android and MeeGo work properly on it! :| Jul 23 23:39:09 nope, the 1707 doesn't know about the magic command to fake a grounded IDD pin Jul 23 23:39:34 OTG does not require grounded ID pin for hostmode Jul 23 23:39:52 nope it also can do HNP Jul 23 23:40:15 does HNP work with n900 with stock kernel? Jul 23 23:40:20 see my lengthy post some lines above, starting[2010-07-24 01:26:11] jacekowski: musb core is waiting for a msg from PHY saying "ID Jul 23 23:40:33 HNP is mostly code in the MUSB stuff Jul 23 23:40:46 there is some things the PHY needs to signal but that is mainly for OTG-OTG connections Jul 23 23:41:28 basically it should, but PHY isn't connected to VBUS directly, instead it has a 1k saying "for device-mode-only devices only" in app notes Jul 23 23:41:42 The N900 can't do the strobe effect like in the fcam demos Jul 23 23:42:15 the lack of connection to VBUS would prevent it from doing full HNP support against another OTG device Jul 23 23:42:20 ds3: not exactly, it's always the statemachine in musb core controller hw that gives us the headache Jul 23 23:42:28 but we don't care about that Jul 23 23:42:44 DocScrutinizer: that gives everyone headaches :( Jul 23 23:44:00 has anyone actually tried just implementing the code for the PHY and seeing if the host command works like on the 8x0? Jul 23 23:44:01 statemachine in musbcore can go to hostmode on a) ID-gnd signal from PHY, b) HNP sequence of evens from PHY, c) force_host in debug register Jul 23 23:44:03 Hi, when I plug the N900 in as USB mass storage mode, it appears as two /dev/sd* devices, but neither has any partitions (only the sd(letter) devices). Any idea why? Jul 23 23:44:33 FireFly: the 32G storage doesn't have any partitions, you just mount the device. Jul 23 23:44:47 Hm Jul 23 23:44:49 And if you've not got a micro SD inserted, that wont show up with partitions either, just device node. Jul 23 23:44:50 27G* Jul 23 23:44:52 (I think. Jul 23 23:45:05 I'm pretty sure I have a microSD plugged in, though Jul 23 23:45:09 luke-jr: Shouldn't that be 32G* (* NB: Not really 32G) Jul 23 23:45:10 :P Jul 23 23:45:23 FireFly: maybe it is not partitioned. Jul 23 23:45:24 Oh Jul 23 23:45:26 alterego: nah, 27G Jul 23 23:45:34 Prehaps Jul 23 23:45:37 Perhaps* Jul 23 23:45:45 Anyway, mounting MyDocs went fine Jul 23 23:45:48 thanks Jul 23 23:45:53 luke-jr: is this where you tell me it's American gigs too? :P Jul 23 23:46:24 I'm going to have some serious fun tomorrow I think ... Jul 23 23:46:30 alterego: no, it's really 27 GB :p Jul 23 23:46:34 ds3: N8x0 has completely different PHY Jul 23 23:46:40 alterego: the entire eMMC is 29 GB, and Maemo uses 2 GB for /home Jul 23 23:47:03 Serious fun with Qt, fcam and gstreamer. Jul 23 23:47:06 But now it is bed time :) Jul 23 23:47:35 DocScrutinizer: yes, that's why I said implementing the PHY code Jul 23 23:47:37 32GiB Jul 23 23:47:51 ds3: actually probably nobody did Jul 23 23:48:23 DocScrutinizer: the 4030 PHY also lacks the code to do this... i been meaning to get that code implemented Jul 23 23:48:32 as the datasheets are quite clear about that. It doesn't support the command. So if it's not a secret leftover or sth Jul 23 23:48:38 DocScrutinizer: so why would that id pin be connected at all then Jul 23 23:49:03 good question Jul 23 23:49:28 probably they just kept the connection from times where GAYA was PHY Jul 23 23:49:42 as it would be utterly insane to remove it anyway Jul 23 23:50:40 ds3: not sure about 4030 GAYA. You probably could reprogram the GPIO that's connected to ID Jul 23 23:50:56 so brute force ID pin to any state you like Jul 23 23:51:26 DocScrutinizer: too slow Jul 23 23:51:31 I just got host mode working Jul 23 23:51:56 also I'm not informed about PHY in GAYA capability to deal with that command sent down the ULPI Jul 23 23:52:11 luke-jr, well, everyone can talk from their arse :P Jul 23 23:52:17 not sure I can repeat it yet tho Jul 23 23:52:33 luke-jr: well, that's nice news, but not yet anything particularly new Jul 23 23:52:55 if you send just the right signals to the 5MP cam (requires new fcam drivers) and the FM transmitter, you can materialize a trace from the ID pin to a spare GPIO Jul 23 23:53:07 quite a number of people got hostmode working, with at least 2 methods Jul 23 23:53:33 with some tweaking, maybe OTG support Jul 23 23:53:36 luke-jr: that's novel though Jul 23 23:53:38 :-D Jul 23 23:53:45 just gotta get the lead from the GPIO to the USB socket Jul 23 23:53:47 :D Jul 23 23:54:36 DocScrutinizer: indeed. it'd be the killer app of free software, since I'd patent it and use a really viral license :D Jul 23 23:55:05 google for prodders Jul 23 23:55:09 :-D Jul 23 23:55:44 I'm thinking about hybrid prodders, combined with organic semiconductors Jul 23 23:55:55 Used as a disparaging term for a Protestant. prod (pr d). tr.v. prod·ded, prod· ding, prods. 1. To jab or poke, as with a pointed object. ... Jul 23 23:56:02 the sort you can print with a ink printer Jul 23 23:58:50 ooops, they are called fabers Jul 23 23:58:57 fabbers even Jul 23 23:59:16 * DocScrutinizer needs a beer Jul 23 23:59:16 lol Jul 23 23:59:20 o/ Jul 23 23:59:44 DocScrutinizer: google Fab@Home Jul 23 23:59:54 yep Jul 23 23:59:57 exactly Jul 24 00:00:05 I wait patiently for fab-on-demand Jul 24 00:01:06 Fab@Home seems unrealistic IMO Jul 24 00:01:39 I'm thinking about very special hybrid fabbers. you can do a lot of interesting things, by combining several technologies here Jul 24 00:02:23 but now... BEEEEEEER Jul 24 00:02:39 fabbing beer? Jul 24 00:03:43 "Buying all of the parts for a Model 1 currently costs about $2400. The Model Two is expected to cost approximately $1,300." Jul 24 00:03:46 out of my budget :( Jul 24 00:04:47 the fabber I think about will cost $$$$$$$, for a first prototype Jul 24 00:05:13 and still can do no beer :-D Jul 24 00:05:38 it says any liquid... :/ Jul 24 00:05:50 though I wonder how Jul 24 00:09:41 * luke-jr ponders if the Fab@Home can build all the parts for a Fab@Home :p Jul 24 00:26:40 haha Jul 24 00:27:07 this thing looks too inaccurate to make anything electronic :/ Jul 24 00:27:16 http://fabathomebeta.mae.cornell.edu/wiki/uploads/1/17/Chocolate4.mpg Jul 24 00:30:30 if you want something that works, get a Dimension Jul 24 00:32:12 "uPrint is compact enough to fit on your desktop; simple enough for no-hassle setup and operation; and — best of all — affordable enough for most users, no matter your profession or office size." Jul 24 00:32:18 "starting at only $14,900* USD" Jul 24 00:32:21 riiiiiight Jul 24 00:32:56 the dimension stuff puts out pretty good stuff... I much rather blow $14K on something that works then $2K on something that doesn't Jul 24 00:33:20 how many materials does it support? Jul 24 00:33:26 can I have it make all my meals? Jul 24 00:33:42 the demo I went to was with ABS Jul 24 00:33:52 and they can do overhangs that the fab@home/reprap guys can't Jul 24 00:35:04 in any case, I don't have even $2K to waste on a toy Jul 24 00:35:27 *nod* Jul 24 00:35:42 on top of that, I'd have to buy the materials for anything I make Jul 24 00:35:56 so I don't know if it could ever pay for itself Jul 24 00:36:28 can I assign a ring tone per person on the n900? Jul 24 00:37:11 flash uses p2p bandwidth sharing? Jul 24 00:37:13 wtf? :) Jul 24 00:37:59 on the bright side, $14K might not be bad if someone wants to invest in a fab-on-demand company... Jul 24 00:41:03 jef91: no Jul 24 00:41:15 luke-jr: you wouldn't make anything worth buying anyways Jul 24 00:41:23 Macer: you missed it Jul 24 00:42:33 even if you had enough money to buy 10 of them. they would be 10 paper weights in a couple of months with nothing useful produced from them Jul 24 00:42:47 Macer: you clearly have no idea what fab-on-demand means Jul 24 00:42:58 clearly Jul 24 00:43:39 jef91: yes Jul 24 00:43:43 it means YOU provide the design you want fabbed, and can order it in quantities as low as 1 Jul 24 00:44:24 so instead of spending $14K on your own fab, you just have the company fab and ship it to you Jul 24 00:45:36 jef91: search talk.maemo.org, somewere next to keyword espeak you'll find the way to go Jul 24 00:46:32 your intent was to consider having one in order to have your own fab on deman shop for personal projects. and you are correct. it would be a useless toy that would not produce anything useful for yourself or society other than a few brief moments of seeing it do anything at all Jul 24 00:47:01 Macer: now you're not only ignorant, but just trolling Jul 24 00:47:34 little bit. but still the truth nonetheless Jul 24 00:47:50 BUT.. i have to see if someone ported carman to maemo5 or meego :) Jul 24 00:47:53 actually, if I had one, it would produce at least 2 useful things for myself Jul 24 00:47:55 so f u Jul 24 00:47:56 i really want carman back Jul 24 00:49:16 no kidding. carman is in dev ? :) now that is great news Jul 24 00:49:32 too bad i can't find my damn n810. i have no idea where the hell that thing went. i think i lost it in the move :( Jul 24 00:50:57 wtf are n810s like 225$? Jul 24 00:51:19 * DocScrutinizer makes note to diary that after 8 months still a popular simple way t have per-contact ringtones and profiles in general is missing. Wonder why some of the most obvious apps never seem to happen Jul 24 00:51:20 screw that. i'll get a car mount for my n900 haha.. what a gyp. n800 for $200? i suppose a lesson in scarcity Jul 24 00:51:49 DocScrutinizer: because the *OS is abandoned ;) Jul 24 00:51:52 *see meego Jul 24 00:52:18 wait til we abandon *you* :-P Jul 24 00:53:17 is nokia ditching symbian after the n8? Jul 24 00:53:35 i thought i heard it was the last phone they were going to use with symbian on it Jul 24 00:53:39 npe, only for N-series Jul 24 00:54:17 or top notch smartphones in general Jul 24 00:54:17 http://mynokiablog.com/2010/02/22/meego-to-replace-symbian-in-the-future-as-nokia-goes-beyond-smartphones/ Jul 24 00:54:26 hm Jul 24 00:54:32 can't really trust a blog tho Jul 24 00:54:36 -as-nokia-goes-beyond-smartphones/ Jul 24 00:54:40 is the key Jul 24 00:55:03 so symbian will remain for what exactly? low end phones? Jul 24 00:55:09 yep Jul 24 00:55:13 aiui Jul 24 00:55:41 so their entire shift will be towards meego in the future and they have already started working on it? Jul 24 00:55:47 Is Symbian superior to Maemo/Meego in any way currently? Jul 24 00:55:49 symbian is for middle range phones. s40 is for low end Jul 24 00:55:58 symbian was a piece of shit Jul 24 00:56:06 lorrn, right Jul 24 00:56:09 psycho_oreos: a lot of people say differently ;) Jul 24 00:56:13 symbian is secure Jul 24 00:56:28 i had a friend of mine compare it to "the fbsd of phones" Jul 24 00:56:32 Macer, yes like every other OS regardless if its for phone or not Jul 24 00:56:33 and he is a huge fbsd lover ;) Jul 24 00:56:46 psycho_oreos: true Jul 24 00:57:01 ljp, even if symbian is secure, it doesn't mean maemo can't be hardened Jul 24 00:57:03 i just find it odd that realistically maemo5 had such a short life span Jul 24 00:57:14 It's been out for quite a long time, so I imagine it has a larger set of applications available for it. Am I correct? Jul 24 00:57:24 i mean honestly .. once a good working version of meego comes out for n900... i doubt anybody will be running maemo 5 anymore Jul 24 00:57:41 and symbian to me was a pure example of security through obscurity Jul 24 00:57:51 other than people unwilling to accept it and let go :) Jul 24 00:58:03 Macer: and that opinion is based on what exactly? Jul 24 00:58:05 symbian security goes beyond that Jul 24 00:58:30 hi Jul 24 00:58:49 Toa, as to symbian vs maemo? probably, but maemo was aimed more at tablet users or generally linux fans, symbian had more exposure due to its phone functionality Jul 24 00:58:53 DocScrutinizer: well. on the fact that development for meego will be rather similar. that meego has its roots in maemo probably making development easy to swap over to. meego will be used on future nokia models whereas maemo will no longer be used... etc Jul 24 00:58:59 stuff like that. Jul 24 00:59:12 my n810 cant access any of sd cards. any program attempting to access either internal or external sd just hangs :( Jul 24 00:59:33 Macer: and how would that make me swap my OS short term? Jul 24 00:59:39 however they are present at /dev Jul 24 00:59:49 make you swap your os short term? Jul 24 00:59:57 and that is the exact reason why I loathed n95-1, from the time I bought it from store I've had numerous phone reboots, and the OS telling me what I can't do.. which is absolute stupidity Jul 24 01:00:04 any ideas? Jul 24 01:00:18 psycho_oreos: i loved my n95 tbh Jul 24 01:00:28 Macer, never did, never will Jul 24 01:00:30 at the time it was an awesome piece of hardware Jul 24 01:00:32 Macer: maybe like KDE4 hype, where everybody is jumping train just for the "4" in it Jul 24 01:00:59 it was an awesome piece of hardware laced with shitty OS named symbian Jul 24 01:01:05 DocScrutinizer: possibly. but i would consider the larger fact of it being a linux based distro just like maemo and a future nokia roadmap Jul 24 01:01:12 not to mention the other devices that will try to use it Jul 24 01:01:35 psycho_oreos: I think you are confusing symbian with nokia's interface Jul 24 01:01:36 the future of maemo already lies in the path of meego, its successor Jul 24 01:02:01 is of ZERO relevance to me, my N900 and the apps I've configured after careful selection Jul 24 01:02:03 whereas maemo 5 will eventually go stale since nokia will hve dropped all official support for it and the community relies on the resources of joe developer to create things for it Jul 24 01:02:57 BS Jul 24 01:02:58 i mean don't get me wrong. maemo 5 is great. but if meego acts more like a phone on my phone along with the power of the underlying maemo base Jul 24 01:03:00 ljp, no I'm not confused, I have had issues with OS telling me that I can't install unsigned packages or signed packages whereby the certificate does not exist on the device itself. Then there's issues with stupid camera shutter sounds which you can't turn it off legally.. then there's issues with accessing C:\ on symbian for example Jul 24 01:03:15 then it makes for a better phone OS Jul 24 01:04:00 ljp, and that's just the tip of the iceberg for my issues with symbian Jul 24 01:04:12 unfortunately whether community developers want to believe it or not.. the n900 is a PHONE. it is not a tablet that happens to be a phone. it is a step forward and requires acting like a phone. Jul 24 01:04:36 someone is severely out of touch with what n900 was Jul 24 01:04:36 so waht? Jul 24 01:05:12 so all nokia support will be put behind meego and you will find 3 guys working on a stale maemo 5 in their parents basement because they have some niche thing they always wanted to get working Jul 24 01:05:34 I'm using N900 as a phone on a everyday basis, and I actually had *#-ena published for others to do the same Jul 24 01:06:10 there's nothing wrong with people developing for legacy devices, there's always has and always will be fans of old/discontinued products Jul 24 01:06:16 DocScrutinizer: heh. a phone is not just talking. it is a way of use. Jul 24 01:06:27 N900 is no less a phone than any other smartphone out there, and meego will take a looong time to get on par. Jul 24 01:06:48 DocScrutinizer: depends on how much support is being pushed into it which appears as quite a bit Jul 24 01:06:56 it is definately moving way faster than mer was Jul 24 01:07:09 what do you dream when you're asleep? Jul 24 01:07:21 probably the death of maemo fans ;) Jul 24 01:07:40 haha.. no way. don't get me wrong. i love maemo 5 and my n900. honestly do. Jul 24 01:08:05 Macer: see, I'm using some linux version from 2006 on some of my machines. Guess why Jul 24 01:08:16 because there is no need to upgrade? ;) Jul 24 01:08:23 exactly Jul 24 01:09:28 the thing does the job, and never change a running system Jul 24 01:09:36 you're constantly belittling n900 is all I can see, n900 lacks features of what a phone is capable of and compared to n95 it is a far cry of being more complete of a phone.. above all what is not the real issue is the device itself, the issue is with people are having hard time to grasp the difference between what was once off a series of NIT that had phone capability on it compared to devices that has been around on much more bigger market and Jul 24 01:09:37 has had time to mature Jul 24 01:09:44 phones are tools of the masses and the majority of the money always wins DocScrutinizer Jul 24 01:09:47 zero need to improve *anything* Jul 24 01:10:19 nokia is a company. it goes where the money is Jul 24 01:11:26 and money is found in innovative new products ... not by clinging onto old things that go stale. that was palm. Jul 24 01:11:30 Macer: again: why would *I* change to meego then?? Jul 24 01:11:43 Macer: or, rather, where it *thinks* the money is. Jul 24 01:11:53 as that's been your original statement Jul 24 01:11:53 mortini: touche ;) Jul 24 01:11:59 because he wants you to become a geek, spend more money on new devices that hasn't even come out yet Jul 24 01:12:38 obviously Jul 24 01:12:53 and that's getting annoying and boring Jul 24 01:13:12 I used my last phone for 8 years Jul 24 01:13:40 with a short intermezzo on FR for 9 months Jul 24 01:13:55 the 770/Nxxx series were specifically meant to be NIT devices, all except for n900 where there's interested NIT users who wants phone capability, and it was purely slapped on. It wasn't refined, but this is also the cause of why such debates exist between tablet users and phone users Jul 24 01:13:59 psycho_oreos: that is the way symbian was designed. its secure Jul 24 01:14:03 and I'm planning to use N900 for at least 4 Jul 24 01:14:14 exactly the way it is *right now* Jul 24 01:15:18 ljp, some old article I read awhile ago said that symbian powered phones weren't secure, installing of some 3rd party app renders the device easily hackable. As soon as the email was sent off to symbian, they quickly reacted and turned symbian into some police state OS Jul 24 01:15:21 if not bought a promise on a bright future, I got me a device that meets my needs right now Jul 24 01:15:47 and that will not 'stall' Jul 24 01:16:36 ljp, thus I'm sure there's a fair few angered users over symbian's tough on security approach that is well beyond restrictive-ness... and if they really want a phone like that there's always iphone, blackberry or win mobile Jul 24 01:16:38 hell, I even can update kernel on my pertty own, if I feel like Jul 24 01:18:56 and meego offival as of Nokia, for N900, will never happen anyway, so wtf should I feel like abandoning maemo as soon as a half-cooked meego is released ? Jul 24 01:19:39 I never wanted to buy a device that controls me, its a waste of my money, I never expected symbian to be like that and now that I know how shitty it was I will never own another symbian powered OS, it has always been a POS.. obsessive on security and lack of flexibility Jul 24 01:20:47 a crude way to look at things would be to say those who own such devices who controls their freedom just wants to be controlled.. like master and slave Jul 24 01:20:55 I'm in the market for a new phone, and I really like my N810, but would prefer not to spend $450 on a phone/computer that is very dependant on the community for its applications if the developers will dry up if the next device releases soon. Jul 24 01:20:58 psycho_oreos: symbians security model was not some quickly done reaction to a magazine article. operators had more to do with it Jul 24 01:21:02 as opposed to their continued support for maemo? Jul 24 01:21:45 ljp, apparently it was a rather swift action and there's no way to disable any of such stupid implementations without hacking the firmware Jul 24 01:22:03 Toa: if there's any app you are missing on N900 from nokia now, then go search for your dream elsewhere Jul 24 01:22:45 Toa: galaxy s looks pretty nice for an android phone Jul 24 01:22:45 Toa: all options suck. iPhone is a jail, Android is java on a phone (lots of apps though). n900 is linux on a phone, but at end of line Jul 24 01:23:33 Toa: one might go so far as to say it is an android version of an iphone.. the videos of them side by side were comical :) Jul 24 01:23:52 I bought the n900 before nokia did the confusing meego switch. right now I have no idea which phone I would get Jul 24 01:23:55 i was expecting it to boot with an apple symbol Jul 24 01:24:09 psycho_oreos: trust me, nothing in nokia is donr swiftly Jul 24 01:24:14 and the switch from maemo to meego happened to be a joint venture between two companies sharing different styles. Sure its inevitable that n900 will be the last of maemo 5 which will be the last of the maemo series but for now meego seems to be the future Jul 24 01:24:47 ljp, so you're saying it was symbian's fault for implementing those stupid security stuff and not having the ability to turn them off? Jul 24 01:25:33 What makes it more confusing is some of the carriers (like AT&T) lock down their Android phones so the user can only use their apps. Jul 24 01:25:36 psycho_oreos: it will be interesting to see if a good meego beta comes out in a bit Jul 24 01:25:42 for n900 Jul 24 01:25:47 i am saying there was a demand for it. it was the way symbian was designed to work. Jul 24 01:25:54 please would everybody go read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 - before I get angry and start kicking asses Jul 24 01:26:07 psycho_oreos: or rather, s60 Jul 24 01:26:39 Macer, maybe but I'm not keen on dualbooting meego until its more stable Jul 24 01:27:26 ljp, designed to work.. so its fundamentally flawed in not being user friendly enough to give the end users flexibility? Jul 24 01:28:03 returnthis: what confusing switch? whether next release of OS for N-series is called maemo or meego, it simply won't run on N900 when designed for a c-ts mt device without hw kbd Jul 24 01:28:04 that's probably why symbian fails Jul 24 01:28:15 psycho_oreos: not a flaw.thats how its supposed to work Jul 24 01:28:45 returnthis: so I honnestly wonder how your N900 got any less worth and value by Nokia developing a OS that integrates moblin Jul 24 01:28:57 psycho_oreos: Stskeeps said it would be best to wait until a little later on to try it out and i will do that eventually just to see how far it has come Jul 24 01:29:04 ljp, again you're simply indicating that symbian is no better than the likse of iOS, blackberry or win mobile in terms of controlling users's freedom Jul 24 01:29:21 i'm sure it will be a little while but i ran my G1 for quite a while and it only got better but eventually the hardware was dated Jul 24 01:29:28 psycho_oreos: at least users and developers do not have to rely on one companys graces to be able to sell apps Jul 24 01:30:25 ljp, more like pay $ x 1000 for the right to develop the software on symbian Jul 24 01:30:33 hardly different Jul 24 01:35:46 psycho_oreos: don't think the goal of "open" symbian was to really be open :) Jul 24 01:36:05 psycho_oreos: that is changing Jul 24 01:36:27 Macer, during my time of ownership of n95, symbian was never open, there were works underway but it would never reach into my hands Jul 24 01:36:50 ljp, changing at a very late time too bad Jul 24 01:37:07 not too late at all Jul 24 01:37:47 ljp: well. if symbian is meant for middle range phones and meego is for the upper smart-phones Jul 24 01:37:55 * peb_ is gone. Gone since Wed Jul 21 19:58:59 2010 Jul 24 01:38:23 at least if that is the nokia roadmap... then who would want to develop for a phone that comes out as outdated hardware? Jul 24 01:38:29 * SpeedEvil is bored. Bored since Sat Jul 24 00:23. Jul 24 01:38:30 well in nokia's case for example, symbian will soon be powering lower priced nokia phones, I'm sure there will be a few other companies soon to follow now that android is taking a serious share on the market Jul 24 01:38:58 yeah. android did kind of take off. it was a total piece of shit when it first came out on my G1 :) Jul 24 01:39:30 cyanogen did absolutely awesome work on his community devs Jul 24 01:39:31 DocScrutinizer: its the promise of an application ecosystem is what really matters. with the move to meego, n900 is not going to get much more attention for new apps. Jul 24 01:40:05 the key point is that it was shit but because its slightly far more open sourced than symbian (which could probably be labelled as open symbian) it had gain far more audience, devs, etc Jul 24 01:40:30 returnthis: would you fsckng please read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 Jul 24 01:40:48 if you already did, then I strongly suggest you do again Jul 24 01:41:21 applications built for Qt are ported back to maemo on the push of a button Jul 24 01:42:14 DocScrutinizer, thanks for that link. It was very informative. Jul 24 01:42:23 Next step. You're worried you are getting left behind in terms of applications from 3rd parties targetting Maemo6 and MeeGo. Jul 24 01:42:55 DocScrutinizer: heh. i'm more intrested in the ui Jul 24 01:44:16 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqeeQd-YNL0 Jul 24 01:44:20 i mean that is so pretty :) Jul 24 01:44:29 Macer, who? me? never, I'm quite happy with n900 as it is, sure its incomplete masterpiece and its my very first maemo device. I'm quite happy to acquire linux that now has phone functionalities (albeit far from complete but meh) and at least an OS that isn't as restrictive as what shitian was Jul 24 01:45:09 shitian hahha Jul 24 01:47:22 albeit linux on phone isn't new, I've missed the boat a few times and now managed to grasp one Jul 24 01:47:37 phone/internet tablet Jul 24 01:50:45 linux on a fairly open phone intentionally is pretty new. Jul 24 01:50:56 if symbian had been more friendly by providing flexibility to the end user, I would not be having my beef about how my past experience of how shitty symbian was.. and most likely would have bought X6 or N8. At the end of the day I want a device that obeys me, if I tell it to go fuck itself, it would as you would expect on linux.. not like go fuck yourself instead on windows or you need valid signed certificate for that Jul 24 01:51:22 valid and signed certificate on symbian Jul 24 01:51:47 and probably by then it'll probably say the same thing as windows after all that effort.. access denied Jul 24 01:52:08 Macer: You're right, that's a great looking UI. I wonder how much it affects battery life. Jul 24 01:54:15 SpeedEvil: not THAT new :-) Jul 24 01:55:26 still linux on phone is no longer new, Qtopia (trolltech) had the first slice of linux on phone, then came early HTC breeds with linux (supposedly) Jul 24 01:56:15 DocScrutinizer: to be fair, the neo1973/freerunner were not an open phone really until fairly recently. Jul 24 01:56:31 At least unless you picked a 'golden' software version, and stuck with it. Jul 24 01:56:31 ?? Jul 24 01:56:44 _phone_ Jul 24 01:56:49 aah yes Jul 24 01:56:52 I don't think much of the older linux phones had that much openness either way :) Jul 24 01:56:54 XP Jul 24 01:57:02 they were an open phone-shaped-object - with a broken software stack. Jul 24 01:57:15 imo, n900 is great if you want a 'portable computer', but it kinda blows if you want a lot of spiffy apps already written Jul 24 01:57:53 psycho_oreos: Android was the first 'open' phone probably - you could buy the unlocked one. The OS is _very_ not 'normal' linux though. Jul 24 01:58:11 freerunner was somewhat ill-equipped for average phone users at the time, it remained much like enthusiast type of phone much like how n900 is Jul 24 01:58:51 SpeedEvil, problem is I've heard rumours G1 was the only phone with unlocked bootloader, so its not all that open in other sense either Jul 24 01:59:17 n900 is - I think - a mostly workable phone (I've had worse phones) with a comparatively open stack, though with closed blobs,and a normal userspace. Jul 24 01:59:31 I don't really count iphone or android if you have to root it. Jul 24 01:59:45 given phone regulations, can only be so open Jul 24 01:59:53 don't know why you bothered to mention iphail in the first place ;) Jul 24 02:00:53 mortini: the software stack is almost irrelevant to that. In almost all cases (but the cheapest phones) the modem stack runs on a different CPU. Jul 24 02:00:55 and yes I generally agree that n900 is a more workable phone albeit I have little experience with userspace stuff, etc Jul 24 02:00:58 mortini: regulations don't hinder openness, as modem is a subsystem as blackboxy to you as the OS on your USB storage cornroller chip Jul 24 02:01:07 and you don't care Jul 24 02:01:16 I wanna combine opera & moz & built-in browser. since they all have things i like and dislike. Jul 24 02:01:25 mostly, i just want a mail app that doesn't suck. Jul 24 02:01:36 and can handle more than 5 messages in an inbox Jul 24 02:01:45 ah Jul 24 02:02:35 good morning Jul 24 02:02:42 you insist. Jul 24 02:02:47 If. You. Insist. Jul 24 02:05:08 mortini: You can tinker with many electronics (wireless routers, for instance) to make them perform in such a way that they are outside regulations. Why they don't have them more locked down to prevent it, I don't know. Jul 24 02:05:33 The mail app on n900 is opensource. Modest. Jul 24 02:06:50 SpeedEvil: yeah, and based on libtinymail which, somehow is 'tiny' and includes gtk widgets. Jul 24 02:07:07 Toa: mostly becasue you can't actually modify the radio in any meaningful way Jul 24 02:08:43 mortini: Well, you could, for example, boost the output of the antennas to go well beyond regulations. Jul 24 02:09:17 * mortini shrugs. Jul 24 02:11:37 I need a gear to move a vertical stick downward at a rate of 8 Mt/Tim, with a pendulum that has a timmill interval Jul 24 02:11:40 any ideas? Jul 24 02:13:07 mortini: But you're right, the telecommunications networks are much more regulated and enforced than the wifi spectrum. Jul 24 02:16:14 luke-jr: use sensible units? Jul 24 02:16:26 wtf... Jul 24 02:16:36 Wierd bongy noises and shutoff. Jul 24 02:16:44 It was plugged in and not on 3G Jul 24 02:17:02 SpeedEvil: why? Jul 24 02:17:10 tonal units are the only sensible ones.. Jul 24 02:17:23 where is the media library db stored in maemo? Jul 24 02:17:40 SpeedEvil: i started writing my own client, but then i got mindf'd on the whole deal and sorta gave up Jul 24 02:17:41 hmm - device read error Jul 24 02:17:46 (usb) Jul 24 02:17:52 (on the host side) Jul 24 02:18:02 or rather how can i clear all past user info from maemo? Jul 24 02:20:17 has anyone tested my GPS stuff from scratch yet? :P Jul 24 02:21:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6gGEn9HaCE&feature=related Jul 24 02:21:30 Macer: test my GPS stuff. Jul 24 02:22:15 i'm going to bed. i am just watching this iphone 3gs / n900 video Jul 24 02:22:36 luke-jr: no, I meant to, then I got ambushed by a kangaroo wielding a scimitar. Jul 24 02:22:49 wtf Jul 24 02:22:55 Oops - you're right - sorry - it was a sabre. Jul 24 02:22:56 SpeedEvil: HAHAHAHAH Jul 24 02:28:37 chi: There is a reset the device option in the control panel, I believe Jul 24 02:29:24 chi: Or, you can simply reflash the device by using your computer. Jul 24 02:29:28 SpeedEvil: wd! Jul 24 02:29:58 chi: I suppose I should ask what device you have. Jul 24 02:30:15 luke-jr: In reality - I forgot, and I'd ave to go outside and get it, and charge it, and ... Jul 24 02:30:27 SpeedEvil: you won the game <.< Jul 24 02:31:12 Unfortunately not. I have no large catgirl harem on the moon. Jul 24 02:31:14 SpeedEvil: :) the scimitar was a way better choice of weapon Jul 24 02:32:05 Macer: I am not resonsible for the state of kangaroo armaments. Jul 24 02:32:34 haha Jul 24 02:32:52 yeah. a kangaroo right of passage is smelting their own blade Jul 24 02:33:06 n900 Jul 24 02:42:06 i think i will then. thanks Toa =) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 24 02:59:57 2010