**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 28 02:59:56 2010 Jul 28 03:03:09 viewfinder in nightmode with brightness +2 has almost better sight than I do. Of course noisy like hell, but looks almost like day, though it's full moon. Alas the photos are waaay darker, no idea why it refuses to take photos that look like viewfinder Jul 28 03:04:51 and the stupid batery tells me to stay awake another 4..5h :-(. Need to do some filesharing over 3G :-P Jul 28 03:05:48 DocScrutinizer: fcam might help you there? Jul 28 03:06:07 fcam failed epically. white screen Jul 28 03:07:01 though it somehow figured ISO3200 would be right, no idea why Jul 28 03:07:27 huh, ah well Jul 28 03:07:31 and histogram gave some non-null info Jul 28 03:09:06 honestly I gave it a 10s chance, then continued my way back home, after I did some 20..30 shots with genuine pr1.2 cam, with all permutations of settings Jul 28 03:09:43 I would have expected some sucess, especially if you went full manual Jul 28 03:09:47 but Jul 28 03:09:54 gpsjinni, 3g, camera video recording Jul 28 03:10:02 * ShadowJK has seen 1.1amp Jul 28 03:10:15 prolly should have correctly closed the other cam app before starting fcam Jul 28 03:10:27 heh :-) Jul 28 03:10:29 DocScrutinizer: heh, maybe ;) Jul 28 04:31:25 $450 online, should I do it!? n900 Jul 28 05:04:25 hi all Jul 28 05:04:34 what do i need to install on my nokia 900 to run qt applications compiled for maemo ?? Jul 28 05:04:41 or does it already have that runtime Jul 28 05:04:43 ? Jul 28 05:06:08 anybody please tell... Jul 28 05:07:30 it'll put it in automatically Jul 28 05:10:24 if you're running PR1.2, it has qt support Jul 28 05:10:50 how to check what i am running, i mean whether i have gtk in my nokia 900 or qt ?? Jul 28 05:11:04 you definitely have gtk Jul 28 05:11:38 Spyzer: are you have a particular problem? Jul 28 05:11:44 so does it have qt environment, for running qt apps as well Jul 28 05:12:22 no not a problem, i am beginning development for maemo with qt apps, but do not know beforehand whether they will run on my nokia 900 which only has gtk Jul 28 05:12:44 Spyzer: it does not only have gtk, and you will not have a problem Jul 28 05:12:52 okay thanks :) Jul 28 05:13:41 one more thing, do i also have jvm in the nokia 900 (I mean Java J2ME) for running java apps Jul 28 05:13:41 ? Jul 28 05:14:46 i think you're the first person i see ask for java Jul 28 05:14:51 err, i've seen Jul 28 05:15:00 this whole conjugation thing is hard Jul 28 05:15:16 well actually, i have to benchmark something running on java and qt Jul 28 05:15:22 and give the performance stats Jul 28 05:15:25 Spyzer: simple answer, no there's no jvm Jul 28 05:15:31 can i install it? Jul 28 05:15:39 Spyzer: no Jul 28 05:15:46 what, really?? Jul 28 05:16:24 nothing like :) Jul 28 05:19:52 Spyzer: google: n900 opera mini Jul 28 05:20:10 you may find your answers through google... you're unlikely to get anyone to walk you through it here Jul 28 05:20:39 slonopotamus: i think you mean opera mobile, which is native code and not java Jul 28 05:21:00 well it seems the only solution is using micremulator Jul 28 05:21:02 huh?? Jul 28 05:21:24 ieatlint: ... Jul 28 05:21:56 slonopotamus: aren't they running opera mini on microemulator ?? Jul 28 05:23:01 no Jul 28 05:23:07 Spyzer: dunno. i just saw that someone had it running. Jul 28 05:23:21 ok Jul 28 05:24:52 Stskeeps: yes! Jul 28 05:25:44 i saw that the nokia sdk has a simulator for testing your apps, is that a generic one, I mean does it represent both symbian and maemo ?? Jul 28 05:25:48 some people are masochists... i can believe it Jul 28 05:27:26 Spyzer: nokia qt sdk? Jul 28 05:27:51 http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Nokia_Qt_SDK Jul 28 05:28:14 "yes" would be shorter :P Jul 28 05:30:52 Spyzer: i think answer to your question is yes. Jul 28 05:31:07 ok Jul 28 05:58:52 Regarding the flasher, what are the differences between the -F and -r flags? Jul 28 06:00:21 -F specifies what fiasco file to use, -r means reboot after doing whatever Jul 28 06:00:45 Ebzzry: well...most people use fiasco images...and unless you're haking together your own root / image...you won't need -r Jul 28 06:01:47 -r is for root image. -R is to reboot Jul 28 06:02:13 asj: I'm sorry, but doesn't answer the question. Jul 28 06:02:30 Ebzzry: Jul 28 06:03:03 asj: you'd have to explain in turn what difference do fiasco and root images have, assuming they have any. Jul 28 06:03:19 Ebzzry: ah, not enough coffee Jul 28 06:03:21 Ebzzry: you could also learn to use google :) Jul 28 06:03:34 fiasco can contain multiple things, like mmc, rootfs, kernel, initfs, initrd.. Jul 28 06:04:20 asj: I did my homework Jul 28 06:04:30 Stskeeps: Hmm Jul 28 06:04:48 Stskeeps: Is that documented somewhere? Jul 28 06:06:16 Does MfE support Google mail? Jul 28 06:07:40 no Jul 28 06:08:08 naknomik: you can do it via nuevasync.com if you want to pay to play Jul 28 06:08:46 * asj gives up and goes home Jul 28 06:09:12 ieatlint: we're you answering my query for Stskeeps? Jul 28 06:09:27 no Jul 28 06:09:37 for google mfe support Jul 28 06:10:01 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5 Jul 28 06:10:06 although if you're asking if something is documented, i'll default to saying no Jul 28 06:10:16 safe guess, etc Jul 28 06:12:50 ieatlint: OK Jul 28 06:13:20 asj, ieatlint: it looks like contacts and calendar sync works, but mail sync doesn't, is that correct? Jul 28 06:13:45 i've heard that some people got contacts and calendar to work... i was unable Jul 28 06:13:53 i believe there is an epic thread about this on talk.maemo.org Jul 28 06:16:08 Stskeeps: Thanks for the link, but it isn't as detailed as I hoped to be. Jul 28 07:06:56 Hi. Does anyone know if I can somehow get the n900 calendar to show more than 1 month of events in agenda/week view? Jul 28 07:16:06 sulliwan: there is atleast a better calendar widget that you can set to show up X amount of things upcoming. Can show up to like 10 or so upcoming events regardless of how long ahead time they are. Jul 28 07:17:07 yeah, that's not quite what I want. Would simply want to scroll down in agenda view and see more events Jul 28 07:17:29 the month view is pretty much useless :P Jul 28 07:18:50 there' the GPE calendar in repository which I assume can do that, but it can't sync with PC suite, right? Jul 28 07:38:43 Anyone remember the place which was mentioned here some time ago which sold high grade batteries for the N900? Jul 28 07:41:51 high grade? Jul 28 07:41:56 high capacity or high quality? Jul 28 07:42:22 SwedeMike: Both Jul 28 07:42:26 nokia Jul 28 07:42:34 nobody made anything better Jul 28 07:42:43 well, I bought stuff from dealextreme.com, but they're mostly cheap. Jul 28 07:43:00 their battery seems to have survived me washing it full cycle in the washing machine though, so it's not too bad quality :P Jul 28 07:43:08 jacekowski: Nah - There was some place with batteries which costed _alot_ and was considered High-grade. Jul 28 07:43:29 Some German producer I think Jul 28 07:45:33 the one you needed a new cover for because it was twice the size? Jul 28 07:46:42 SwedeMike: I think that was it. Jul 28 07:46:50 Not sure though Jul 28 07:47:22 google for , there are quite a few references to be had. Jul 28 07:47:43 Mugen - There it was Jul 28 07:48:24 2400 mAh Jul 28 07:48:53 $87.95 Jul 28 07:49:00 I solved it by buying 4 batteries instead, at USD4 a pop that feels more price efficient Jul 28 07:53:58 SwedeMike: Well - That might be a solution too - But as I go for extended hiking trips, a big battery or a solar charger is my solutions - And a big battery is the best, cause then I don't have to remember any extra stuff to bring along. Jul 28 07:57:30 Duckboot: so you're going to buy two batteries anyway? Jul 28 07:58:54 SwedeMike: Nope - 1 big one Jul 28 07:59:01 original batteryis like 1.6mAh isn't it? Jul 28 07:59:06 1320 Jul 28 07:59:21 for n900 its 1320mAh Jul 28 07:59:23 Duckboot: so you're going to have USB solar charger only? Jul 28 07:59:28 hmm twice the size Jul 28 07:59:33 SwedeMike: Dunno yet Jul 28 07:59:37 then you still have problem with bme and stuff in the phone Jul 28 07:59:47 as there is no bsi value for that Jul 28 08:01:39 jacekowski: Can you give me a short rundown on what problems you're talking about? Jul 28 08:06:40 Duckboot: there is 3rd contact on battery Jul 28 08:06:42 Duckboot: BSI Jul 28 08:06:54 Duckboot: it's used to detect battery type and adjust charging according to it Jul 28 08:07:15 Duckboot: if you use not standard battery there is no BSI value for it Jul 28 08:08:42 jacekowski: Mhmm - Not standarized then, so the software controlling the charger just have some presets? Jul 28 08:09:46 yes Jul 28 08:09:51 for different batteries Jul 28 08:09:53 jacekowski: Kk Jul 28 08:10:06 That's really dumb Jul 28 08:10:11 but it only has values for nokia batteries Jul 28 08:10:24 no Jul 28 08:10:29 it's what you are supposed to to Jul 28 08:10:40 every battery has unique charging specs Jul 28 08:10:54 Shouldn't be that difficult to make an algorithm to support all batteries, if BSI was standarized. Jul 28 08:11:02 no Jul 28 08:11:10 BSI is just a single value Jul 28 08:11:21 that specifies specific nokia battery Jul 28 08:12:25 so it checks bsi and then it knows what is the maximum voltage, minimum, charging current Jul 28 08:12:29 and couple other values Jul 28 08:13:10 and 2x bigger battery needs 2x charging current Jul 28 08:13:15 Hmmm. I see the reason, since it would secure phone manufactorers, so that customers only buy their products, but it wouldn't be that hard to standarized on values for different charging profiles. Jul 28 08:13:30 it would be hard Jul 28 08:13:37 as every single battery is different Jul 28 08:14:16 jacekowski: when you say "needs 2x charging current" is that for optimal, or you're saying it doesn't work at all? Jul 28 08:14:23 optimal Jul 28 08:14:29 check. Jul 28 08:14:31 Yes - but if you have a standard, then producers would have to make batteries complying to the standard. Jul 28 08:14:40 but you can't Jul 28 08:14:58 Why? Jul 28 08:15:12 because of how battery works Jul 28 08:15:26 ideally you would need different charging profile when battery is new Jul 28 08:15:33 and different when it has aged Jul 28 08:16:45 jacekowski: I know that, but when you produce a battery, you don't produce a random battery, and watches how the outcome is. Jul 28 08:16:53 jacekowski: sorry but that'd mean the manufacturers would have to admit that computer gear actually change and age over time - no marketing derpartment EVER will allow that : Jul 28 08:16:54 well Jul 28 08:17:08 Duckboot: you do produce random battery Jul 28 08:17:10 anyone know if something like this exists for maemo? http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-technolatry-antennas-qiEq.aspx Jul 28 08:17:30 Duckboot: only batteries from same factory and same series have comparable parameters Jul 28 08:17:38 jacekowski: So each and every battery is different? And would have to have different charging cycle? Jul 28 08:17:47 ideally - yes Jul 28 08:18:01 but because similiar batteries have similiar parameters Jul 28 08:18:06 and bme can learn Jul 28 08:18:45 So basically the reason for not complying to standards is costs of changing the production parameters? Jul 28 08:19:04 partialy yes Jul 28 08:19:16 partialy because benefits are not big enough to overcome costs Jul 28 08:19:17 Mmm. Jul 28 08:19:37 So it all boils down to costs then. That I can understand. Jul 28 08:20:28 you could maybe replace BSI with some 512bytes eeprom Jul 28 08:20:35 like some laptop batteries do Jul 28 08:20:36 But a BIG battery with its own charger would be OK, but not the internal charger iside the N900 Jul 28 08:21:09 so all parameters would be stored inside battery Jul 28 08:21:24 but that would break compatibility Jul 28 08:21:46 jacekowski: Hehe - there is always a pitfall Jul 28 08:22:08 well n900 charger is just simple stupid power supply Jul 28 08:22:19 and inside there is bq24150 Jul 28 08:22:26 that's controlling charging Jul 28 08:22:45 and that chip is capable of delivering current that's enough to charge even that bigger battery Jul 28 08:22:54 well, almost Jul 28 08:23:38 hmm, 1.25A max Jul 28 08:23:48 nah, that's not enough Jul 28 08:24:42 and with that sort of difference it wouldn't be even able to charge that bigger battery to 100% Jul 28 08:47:28 anyone pinged me? Jul 28 08:47:45 02:57 < Jucato> MohammadAG51: thank you for your guide :D http://www.nokiausers.net/forum/nokia-n900/31920-howto-get-linux-maemo-sdk-w-emulator-running.html Jul 28 08:47:52 MohammadAG51: Nah - but if you feel lonely I can ping you. Jul 28 08:51:00 thanks jacekowski Jul 28 08:51:18 was about to ... ehr "ping" you mohammad Jul 28 08:53:07 i'll ping you ;) Jul 28 08:56:24 Good day. Did someone got such error "ERROR running /etc/buildme.d/check_build: Unknown user.(root)" in log after uploading package to the Garage? Jul 28 09:08:09 X-Fade: builder broken Jul 28 09:08:17 divan: speak to X-Fade Jul 28 09:11:00 divan: Did you accept your invitation? Jul 28 09:12:52 bah, I lost the source for synaptics that builds properly Jul 28 09:12:57 should've uploaded it... Jul 28 09:14:08 X-Fade, already solved. It was simple dependancy problem and it was clear from the logs. But this message was confusing. Jul 28 09:14:34 divan: There is a problem with your account, looking into it. Jul 28 09:14:45 Where to look? Jul 28 09:14:54 Invitation accepted, yes. Jul 28 09:15:07 divan: Nothing you can do. Jul 28 09:15:23 X-Fade, may I ask why qt4-maemo5-homescreen-loader is still on the repos? Jul 28 09:15:40 it should've been taken down with libqt4-maemo5-* packages Jul 28 09:15:44 MohammadAG: Need to check. Jul 28 09:15:55 MohammadAG: -devel? Jul 28 09:16:06 I think so, but it's causing users problems Jul 28 09:16:08 sec Jul 28 09:17:06 hmm, nvm, it seems to have been removed, but packages depending on it might be there Jul 28 09:17:07 MohammadAG: that's an interesting point you make there... Jul 28 09:17:26 are -devel shitz allowed to be so busted it fuck peoples phones up? Jul 28 09:17:38 yes Jul 28 09:17:42 (Case in point: browser switchboard) Jul 28 09:17:51 take libsdl1.2-mixer for example Jul 28 09:18:02 someone updated it, the update breaks mp-fremantle-generic-pr Jul 28 09:18:11 right, what about it (I'm not aware of the details, sorry) Jul 28 09:19:45 wrong package name up there ^, but check http://maemo.org/packages/view/libsdl-mixer1.2 Jul 28 09:20:01 libsdl-mixer1.2 1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3 breaks the SSU package Jul 28 09:28:52 MohammadAG: qt4-maemo5-homescreen-loader dependencies removed. Jul 28 09:29:08 The sdl-mixer on is bad. That needs to be removed from the repos. Jul 28 09:29:27 If someone wants to improve sdl-mixer then it needs to be renamed unfortunately. Jul 28 09:30:16 X-Fade, how to edit/add homepage for project? Sorry for dummy question, but I already spent 30 minutes to find how to do this. Jul 28 09:30:18 lol X-Fade has MohammadAG been breaking repos again Jul 28 09:30:35 lcuk, aww, don't blame me, I'm helping fix what others broke Jul 28 09:30:37 lcuk: No, not him. Jul 28 09:30:49 ~MohammadAG++ Jul 28 09:30:59 I mean in Garage. Page for my_project.garage.maemo.org Jul 28 09:31:21 divan: put www dir in your svn/git and put the pages there. Jul 28 09:31:35 clear, thanks. Jul 28 09:33:12 MohammadAG: Evil mixer removed. Jul 28 09:33:57 Thanks X-Fade Jul 28 09:35:52 X-Fade, yayyy @ having bug cert renewed :D Jul 28 09:36:11 the bmo one? Jul 28 09:36:37 yes it appears valid Jul 28 09:37:02 heya lcuk Jul 28 09:37:09 hi RST38h \o Jul 28 09:37:15 as of yesterday MohammadAG Jul 28 09:38:08 shouldn't https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9109 be closed Jul 28 09:38:09 Bug 9109: SSL certificate expired Jul 28 09:39:25 X-Fade, ^^ Jul 28 09:41:11 lcuk: Yes, it isn't used anymore. Jul 28 09:43:31 https junkies Jul 28 09:44:04 is https that secure? Jul 28 09:44:15 I thought it can be easily faked Jul 28 09:44:36 if you have fingerprint of certificate Jul 28 09:44:43 obtained in secure way Jul 28 09:44:52 then it can't Jul 28 09:45:05 but otherwise somebody can be using fake certificate Jul 28 09:45:39 doh X-Fade my mistake yeah, MohammadAG you meant to highlight 10951 :p Jul 28 09:45:59 bug 10951 Jul 28 09:46:00 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10951 SSL certificate for bugs.maemo.org expired Jul 28 09:46:12 lcuk, no, I meant to highlight 9109 :P Jul 28 09:46:12 fake certs require that a root CA get compromised... the easiest way is to find one of the handful of root CAs that still uses md5 hashes, and find an md5 collision Jul 28 09:46:46 it would require a lot of effort, and still requires a man in the middle attack angle Jul 28 09:47:15 ieatlint: not really Jul 28 09:47:33 ieatlint: most CAs don't verify that you are legitimate owner of domain that you request cert for Jul 28 09:47:44 so you can buy "fake" cert Jul 28 09:48:06 more specifically they have poor verification, such as "well, put this html file with this hash on the domain, and then we'll assume you own it" Jul 28 09:48:17 might be able to BS a phone call to authorise it Jul 28 09:48:29 but i doubt too many would fall for that Jul 28 09:48:31 if any Jul 28 09:48:45 one is enough Jul 28 09:48:59 true enough Jul 28 09:49:43 i have a friend who made a browser plugin to cache the ssl fingerprints of sites, so that it both forces you to https if the site also supports http, and detects if the cert has changed Jul 28 09:50:46 well, all browser cache fingerprints Jul 28 09:51:52 http://images.4chan.org/gif/src/1280220313610.gif Jul 28 09:52:12 on a related topic, you hear how google added ssl support for searches? Jul 28 09:52:27 yeah they did Jul 28 09:52:31 but it's useless Jul 28 09:52:38 so load https://google.com and laugh Jul 28 09:52:57 hmm, they removed it Jul 28 09:53:02 nope Jul 28 09:53:05 hmm, no Jul 28 09:53:08 https://www.google.com works fine Jul 28 09:53:12 well thing is that it's useless Jul 28 09:53:41 it's not Jul 28 09:53:41 because if somebody will see theat you went to google Jul 28 09:53:44 typed something Jul 28 09:53:53 and then opened 3 websites after that Jul 28 09:53:58 porn.com Jul 28 09:54:04 porn-videos.com Jul 28 09:54:08 free-porn.com Jul 28 09:54:25 and because of that autocompletion thing Jul 28 09:54:28 yeah, it is possible to figure out the nature of your search through it Jul 28 09:54:30 he knows you typed 4 letters Jul 28 09:54:45 then with 99% probablity he will know that you typed "porn" into google Jul 28 09:54:46 but it still can protect some sensitive data Jul 28 09:54:54 you'd be surprised the stupid shit people search for Jul 28 09:55:01 SSNs being a good example Jul 28 09:55:17 so? Jul 28 09:55:22 everybody can get that number anyways Jul 28 09:55:46 not that easily Jul 28 09:56:03 that number is used in too many places Jul 28 09:56:11 for it to be treated as anything secret Jul 28 09:56:20 only banks Jul 28 09:56:34 http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/social-insecurity-numbers-open-to-hacking.ars Jul 28 09:57:32 not that surprising... first 3 digits are place of birth, and yeah, it's then issued "sequentially" with the luhn algorithm Jul 28 09:57:41 trial and error rate is still high Jul 28 09:59:34 not high enough to consider it secret Jul 28 10:00:51 huh... the finnish SSN is awesome. Date, sequential id for that day and verify Jul 28 10:01:00 so the basis of your argument is "well, with your place and date of birth, and a bit of bruce force, i can get your ssn... so you might as well just hand it out" Jul 28 10:01:49 Wolfie: most US states used to use the SSN as their ID card number... hawaii only switched away from it in 2006 Jul 28 10:02:11 and military contractor cards print the SSN on their ID cards, hehe Jul 28 10:02:21 no, you shouldn't use it at all for any verification purposes Jul 28 10:02:26 not saying it's secret Jul 28 10:02:42 jacekowski: very true, which is why i refuse to give it to anyone who doesn't have cause Jul 28 10:02:59 with very specific exceptions, opening a bank account requires a SSN here Jul 28 10:03:04 same with getting a driver licence Jul 28 10:03:40 MohammadAG51, talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=767563&postcount=220 Jul 28 10:03:47 i'm amazed that giving out your SSN in the US is so hazardrous Jul 28 10:03:54 MohammadAG51, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=767563&postcount=220 Jul 28 10:04:29 okay, i guess someone could change my ADSL subscription, having a male voice and knowing my name and SSN, but, iirc, there's always a paper copy I need to acknowledge Jul 28 10:04:32 I'm amazed that something so off-topic is being discussed Jul 28 10:04:51 Wolfie: well, here you just need name and address Jul 28 10:04:59 Wolfie: and no paper copy to acknowledge Jul 28 10:05:24 with someone's name and SSN, i can get a credit card in their name and have it mailed to an address of my choosing Jul 28 10:05:35 jacekowski: "here" being the US Jul 28 10:05:36 ? Jul 28 10:05:38 crashanddie_: it's irc... be amazed when shit is on topic Jul 28 10:05:39 UK Jul 28 10:05:41 ok Jul 28 10:05:43 US here Jul 28 10:05:44 that's scary Jul 28 10:05:50 well, nobody abuses it Jul 28 10:05:59 ieatlint, Wolfie, jacekowski: please take this some other place. Thanks Jul 28 10:06:28 crashanddie_: aww, how boring Jul 28 10:06:36 crashanddie_: it's ruining the idle on-topic conversations going on? right, sorry.. Jul 28 10:06:49 (no community thrives without an off-topic section, btw) Jul 28 10:07:01 anyways, back to work/idle Jul 28 10:07:14 feel free to create #maemo-offtopic Jul 28 10:07:15 well, nobody would want to change my adsl subscription ( same one i'm using for my maemo based phone ) because that wouldn't give them any profit - is that on topic enough? Jul 28 10:07:32 isn't #maemo supposed to be the general chat? Jul 28 10:07:43 crashanddie_: that's hardly the point :) Jul 28 10:07:53 MohammadAG51, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=767563&postcount=220 Jul 28 10:08:14 damn, sorry for the spamming mate Jul 28 10:10:27 crashanddie_: that's little bit rude Jul 28 10:10:53 it is indeed Jul 28 10:11:25 but I'm pissed off at all the snake oil salesmen blaming comunity for their failure Jul 28 10:11:54 failure? Jul 28 10:12:06 boo fucking hoo, you got guys knocking you down from your pedestal, and it hurt your motivation? Jul 28 10:12:52 maybe you should bitch at people then Jul 28 10:13:40 eh? Jul 28 10:14:24 crashanddie_: besides, there is no community support Jul 28 10:14:31 fuck all Jul 28 10:14:32 zero Jul 28 10:14:33 none Jul 28 10:14:35 jacekowski, quite frankly, I'm happy it's just a "little bit rudeing", I've done far worse. Jul 28 10:14:37 there can't be community support Jul 28 10:14:51 same with chromium Jul 28 10:14:51 there's nothing to start supporting Jul 28 10:14:56 nobody decided to help Jul 28 10:15:08 did you ask? Jul 28 10:15:12 yes Jul 28 10:15:23 well, chromium is just yet another browser, who gives a shit Jul 28 10:15:36 jacekowski does Jul 28 10:15:41 not really Jul 28 10:15:46 i'm using opera Jul 28 10:15:49 k, then who gives a shit Jul 28 10:15:56 this is (alegedly) packet injection, mac spoofing, and what not Jul 28 10:16:13 mac spoofing's easy Jul 28 10:16:14 :P Jul 28 10:16:16 well, original driver supports mac cpoofing Jul 28 10:16:21 and packet injection is easy Jul 28 10:16:23 crashanddie_: wow, fixed-width for the interface font sure makes an app look 1337... Jul 28 10:16:27 a lot more interesting than clicking on icon a or b to view the exact same webpage Jul 28 10:17:01 jacekowski, it is easy, making a driver for it isn't Jul 28 10:17:02 well, how many people from community are working on development really Jul 28 10:17:07 1 Jul 28 10:17:18 the guy has everthing closed Jul 28 10:17:20 and they're not from the community Jul 28 10:17:26 but i'm talking in general Jul 28 10:17:32 host mode Jul 28 10:17:33 plenty? Jul 28 10:17:36 2-3 people Jul 28 10:17:46 not everyone can help in that field jacekowski Jul 28 10:17:46 and community just asking stupid questions Jul 28 10:17:50 I think there are more devs outside the community than inside it Jul 28 10:18:28 crashanddie_: i know it's a minor point, but it instantly makes me feel like the whole thing isn't terribly serious Jul 28 10:18:53 why so serious? Jul 28 10:19:50 well, I'm guessing after he scripted the text scrolling, he had a lot of time to change the fonts Jul 28 10:20:16 like, it makes it look like somebody had to talk him out of matrix-theming his security application Jul 28 10:22:20 http://i28.tinypic.com/idudkg.jpg Jul 28 10:23:55 LOL Jul 28 10:26:28 jacekowski, reading comics to understand what it would be like to talk to girls? Jul 28 10:38:02 hey guys. i seem to have lost the "availability" option on my n900 for some reason. any ideas on how to restore it? Jul 28 10:38:53 restart :P Jul 28 10:38:57 or kill telepathy Jul 28 10:39:33 haha I have restarted many times now. no luck :( Jul 28 10:39:43 hmm Jul 28 10:41:10 yo, gstreamers! can you help me fix this article for http://wiki.maemo.org/Streaming_video_from_built-in_webcam Jul 28 10:41:18 for n900 Jul 28 10:44:26 Is it really bad to use pthread_* in a gtk app? Or is it ok as long as threaded gtk stuff is inside gdk_threads_enter/leave ? Jul 28 10:49:01 specifically after tried running the shell script, it said no element "gconfvl2src" Jul 28 10:50:44 so i changed it back to v4l2src Jul 28 10:51:08 now it says no element "hantro4200enc" Jul 28 11:25:01 how do I zoom in the picture app? :-S Jul 28 11:25:26 circle Jul 28 11:25:32 err Jul 28 11:25:37 or is it volume buttons Jul 28 11:25:58 moving your head closer to screen also works Jul 28 11:27:12 I find moving arm closer to be more socially acceptible Jul 28 11:27:29 volume buttons seem to work, as does moving head Jul 28 11:27:42 moving arm works too Jul 28 11:27:49 yeah. Jul 28 11:28:39 on that score, using the inverted ar stuff I have been playing with, changing the scale of photos as the device is lifted off the table is a curious effect Jul 28 11:31:15 lcuk: doesn't that feal unnatural? Jul 28 11:31:30 wasn't there some discussion on the forum about making a app (or a mod) that would ask you what you wanted to start when opening the camera lens? Jul 28 11:32:48 crashanddie, when i dont do it, maintaining the scale feels wrong Jul 28 11:33:04 SpeedEvil: I tried circle instinctively Jul 28 11:33:07 the current version in github does that and picking device up should be adjusting the scale Jul 28 11:33:07 then don't maintain it? Jul 28 11:33:19 sure Jul 28 11:33:19 SpeedEvil: EPIC FAIL, suffice to say :) Jul 28 11:33:29 SpeedEvil: might try volume buttons, thanks Jul 28 11:33:30 it was just more jumpy with initial sketch version so i blocked it Jul 28 11:33:50 now i have tied down the system to be smoother :) Jul 28 11:36:08 ah.. here.. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=575840 Jul 28 11:39:38 hrrrm Jul 28 11:39:43 "okuda theme" Jul 28 11:39:52 not fair to name it that when okuda himself didn't make it Jul 28 11:39:55 blegh Jul 28 11:40:06 what happens if i replace libflashplayer.so in /usr/lib/browser/plugins, with the one from ubuntu (10.1)? Jul 28 11:40:29 th3hate: is that ubuntu for for armel? Jul 28 11:40:41 no Jul 28 11:40:44 for x64 lol Jul 28 11:40:49 lol Jul 28 11:41:01 should i give it a shot? Jul 28 11:41:11 no you should not Jul 28 11:41:42 if you do I'll tell you mum to thwap you upside your head Jul 28 11:41:51 just do .. it will crash and eat kittens .. but its your device :P Jul 28 11:42:02 cehteh: meh :) Jul 28 11:42:19 there's no harming the kittens Jul 28 11:42:20 well there is bochs in the repository .. maybe you can run x86_64 flash in bochs Jul 28 11:42:27 *eg* Jul 28 11:42:35 ;) Jul 28 11:42:42 reboot loop is worst thing that could happen Jul 28 11:42:54 but i think browser will just crash Jul 28 11:43:08 you dont know about really worse things yet :) Jul 28 11:43:33 but for sure, it will not work Jul 28 11:43:33 like battery self igniting? Jul 28 11:43:48 reboot loops aren't possible by mozilla plugins Jul 28 11:43:48 yeah like that :) Jul 28 11:44:10 replaced it already, time to try youtube Jul 28 11:44:19 won't work Jul 28 11:44:27 MohammadAG51: come on .. a really bad plugin may exploit the device and erase the flash Jul 28 11:44:29 see? i'm optimistic Jul 28 11:44:45 cehteh meh Jul 28 11:44:49 so can dd Jul 28 11:44:51 MohammadAG51: You are optimistic - That will be the day ;-P Jul 28 11:45:07 th3hate: its rather 'can not work' than 'wont work' Jul 28 11:45:18 indeed Jul 28 11:45:20 i mean deterministically impossible Jul 28 11:45:31 A huge earth icon appeared in the middle of where is supposed to be a video Jul 28 11:45:53 well at least i tried Jul 28 11:45:59 yeah, that's microb's way of saying wtf Jul 28 11:46:03 hope dies at last :P Jul 28 11:46:34 th3hate: You cannot crank in an x86_64 lib into an Arm device and truly believe it will work ;-P Jul 28 11:46:43 he tried :P Jul 28 11:46:56 I wonder what fraction of a percent of apps in extras-testing have their sourcecode read by someone who could in theory pick up system("sudo rm -rf /") Jul 28 11:47:15 well you can write a wrapper like nspluginwrapper which hooks in and runs the plugin under bochs Jul 28 11:47:27 SpeedEvil, 0/x Jul 28 11:47:28 will give spectacular performance ... Jul 28 11:47:39 1pps (pixel per second) :) Jul 28 11:47:44 cehteh: Sure - but that's a bit more than copying. Jul 28 11:47:45 SpeedEvil: like that is unique tio Maemo... Jul 28 11:47:50 tybollt: Sure. Jul 28 11:48:01 oh it IS unique to maemo? Jul 28 11:48:01 at least we found a way to fake flash 10.1 on maemo Jul 28 11:48:06 check this http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=766484&postcount=967 Jul 28 11:48:08 * tybollt frowns Jul 28 11:48:12 neat th3hate Jul 28 11:48:20 lying about the bits? Jul 28 11:48:49 SpeedEvil: besides it's all binary blob flash shit... you couldn't review the source if you tried Jul 28 11:48:57 "we" is a strong word th3hate Jul 28 11:48:58 so the argument is void Jul 28 11:49:22 tybollt: I mean - in the case of most apps. Not flash. Jul 28 11:49:24 do you know gstreamer, im trying to get the streaming workings, and its a no-go Jul 28 11:49:31 tybollt: and flash is just another VM. Jul 28 11:49:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/Streaming_video_from_built-in_webcam Jul 28 11:49:43 tybollt: in principle you can do the decompiling thing Jul 28 11:49:54 flash video streaming would be awesome. Jul 28 11:49:59 i want to stream using gstreamer, and ive n900 Jul 28 11:50:07 yes because everyone knoqws reverseengineering by heart - right? Jul 28 11:50:20 of course Jul 28 11:51:02 first i get a error with "gconfv4l2src" so i have to change it back to "v4l2src" Jul 28 11:51:18 MohammadAG51: by "we" i mean the community Jul 28 11:51:20 faggot Jul 28 11:51:28 and then i get a warning with "hantro4200enc" Jul 28 11:51:31 Oi Jul 28 11:51:45 * SpeedEvil points at jacekowski. Jul 28 11:51:51 Though I don't think he does flash. Jul 28 11:52:09 so, is there something im missing for hantro4200enc? Jul 28 11:52:20 * DocScrutinizer *cough* Jul 28 11:52:46 th3hate: there's no need for such language. Jul 28 11:53:02 it was a joke :) Jul 28 11:53:11 a bad one Jul 28 11:53:15 oi Jul 28 11:53:16 very Jul 28 11:53:17 tybollt, let it go Jul 28 11:53:37 I broke someones heart :'( Jul 28 11:54:54 th3hate: I dare you to take a version of that, make it flash 12, and point it at a flash detector site, then screenshot to TMO, with a post in all caps. Jul 28 11:55:18 so, is there something im missing for hantro4200enc? Jul 28 11:55:23 Sounds like a plan!! Jul 28 11:57:03 gawd, i hate repeating myself Jul 28 11:57:12 even if for just dramatic effect Jul 28 11:57:21 i opened libflashplayer.so using notpad to edit it, but that didn't go very well Jul 28 11:57:25 freezed pc Jul 28 11:57:38 notepad'ing a binary is stupid Jul 28 11:57:49 +1 Jul 28 11:58:01 or any text editor Jul 28 11:58:34 does something like "binary editor" exist? Jul 28 11:58:39 morning Jul 28 11:58:48 th3hate: hex editor Jul 28 11:58:52 decompile, edit, compile, or hex it Jul 28 11:59:12 i'd leave that to people who know it though Jul 28 11:59:14 like jacekowski Jul 28 11:59:30 you can't decompile software Jul 28 11:59:32 not easily Jul 28 11:59:36 i know Jul 28 11:59:44 you have to trace execution Jul 28 11:59:49 I never tried it Jul 28 11:59:51 never will Jul 28 11:59:57 otherwise that code will not compile back Jul 28 12:00:22 learn to code in binary, problem solved Jul 28 12:00:33 yep, easiest solution Jul 28 12:00:36 ... Jul 28 12:01:25 mc_teo, not the whole story, just knowing binary is one thing, but you still need to understandthe featureset and opecodes of the specific architechure the binary isrun under Jul 28 12:01:34 opcodes Jul 28 12:02:05 lcuk: == Assembly Coding Jul 28 12:02:36 at least, risc is way more readable than cisc :) Jul 28 12:02:39 Duckboot, sure, abstract the problem away - mc_teo was clearly calling for binary and not some high level language Jul 28 12:02:50 lcuk: ;-P Jul 28 12:03:27 but it's quite easy to modify binary Jul 28 12:03:35 biggest problem is when you have to add something Jul 28 12:03:44 just use >> Jul 28 12:03:47 because you have to find place for that bit of code you are adding Jul 28 12:03:49 :> Jul 28 12:03:50 lol Jul 28 12:04:01 anyone knows a good flash version detector site? Jul 28 12:04:03 Corsac: Sure you want stdout? Jul 28 12:04:18 Duckboot: why not? Jul 28 12:04:28 th3hate: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html Jul 28 12:05:15 jacekowski: thanks Jul 28 12:05:27 Corsac: cause what you're trying to do is clearly is an error - Then 2> would be more correct ;-P Jul 28 12:06:27 are you implying that my code is an error? Jul 28 12:06:45 Hehe Jul 28 12:07:03 i think <3 would be more correct overall Jul 28 12:07:17 Duckboot: ^ Jul 28 12:07:21 Corsac: Let's settle this peacefully then &> Jul 28 12:07:39 ? Jul 28 12:07:56 hmm, is there an ARM version of flashplayer 10? Jul 28 12:08:14 jacekowski, yes Jul 28 12:08:15 mc_teo`: Not familiar with redirection of stderr and stdout? Jul 28 12:08:22 droid version? Jul 28 12:08:24 froyo's Jul 28 12:08:38 but it won't work on microb, though I'm sure you know that Jul 28 12:08:45 Nexus One's version, yes Jul 28 12:08:47 yeah i know that Jul 28 12:08:57 do you have binary? Jul 28 12:09:10 you might find it in #nitdroid Jul 28 12:10:36 do you know gstreamer, im trying to get the streaming workings, and its a no-go Jul 28 12:10:47 so, is there something im missing for hantro4200enc? Jul 28 12:10:49 jacekowski: I have NitDroid on my phone, I could look for it. Jul 28 12:10:50 deja vu Jul 28 12:10:59 Duckboot, libflashplayer.so Jul 28 12:11:26 maybe we could use libflashplayer.so that dj_steve used for nitdroid? Jul 28 12:11:33 th3hate: no Jul 28 12:11:36 th3hate: it's different Jul 28 12:11:46 question is how different is it Jul 28 12:11:49 both are armel nop? Jul 28 12:11:59 MohammadAG: Nope - No libflashplayer.so Jul 28 12:12:01 yes, but libs are different Jul 28 12:12:11 maybe we can edit the libs Jul 28 12:12:11 android browser != microb Jul 28 12:12:12 for one Jul 28 12:12:28 found it Jul 28 12:13:10 we need libflashplayer.so specifically for microB? thats never gonna happen Jul 28 12:13:20 well duh Jul 28 12:13:20 th3hate: do you want to bet? Jul 28 12:13:28 jacekowski, he meant officially Jul 28 12:13:35 yep Jul 28 12:13:39 i mean officialy Jul 28 12:13:50 unofficially, I don't have a doubt you can do it Jul 28 12:14:17 if bet is between us and getting flash 10.1 then hell yea i wanna bet @ Jul 28 12:14:36 jacekowski, sec, I'll get you the lib Jul 28 12:14:58 would've been easier if I had an account on xda Jul 28 12:15:08 anyways Jul 28 12:15:14 lunch time Jul 28 12:15:16 I just made a bowl of cereal, and there was a spider in it .. Jul 28 12:15:17 Nice. Jul 28 12:15:18 i've got to eat something Jul 28 12:15:28 I did think about eating it .. Jul 28 12:15:28 alterego: proteins Jul 28 12:15:38 alterego, what he ^ said Jul 28 12:17:01 alterego, crunchy, when you bite down there is a taste explosion! Jul 28 12:17:28 duh, /usr/src/tweakflashver/tweakflashver/TweakFlashVer-build-maemo/../../../../include/gnu/stubs.h:7: error: gnu/stubs-32.h: No such file or directory Jul 28 12:17:37 why can't this SDK thing just work Jul 28 12:17:41 * SpeedEvil is recently eating a lot of porridge. Jul 28 12:17:49 lcuk: yuk :/ Jul 28 12:18:01 every time I want to do a 10 min project I reminded why python rocks Jul 28 12:18:05 40g oats, 100g milk, 4 dates, 0.1g salt, in a small glass bowl, nuked for 3 mins. Jul 28 12:18:15 Add some cold milk on top, and _nom_ Jul 28 12:18:18 really cheap too. Jul 28 12:18:27 I like dates Jul 28 12:18:38 Not sure why you'd addd salt though :P Jul 28 12:18:53 Salt adds significantly to the taste. Jul 28 12:18:55 And is it really important for the bowl to be glass? :) Jul 28 12:18:55 * lcuk ate chocolate coated ants and other assorted insects a couple of weeks ago Jul 28 12:19:05 Cool Jul 28 12:19:08 alterego: well - it's microwave safe Jul 28 12:19:09 Hi, is it possible to block any silent sms on the n900? I read that you cold turn on the microphone remotly with this kind of sms. Jul 28 12:19:17 tobis87: haha Jul 28 12:19:23 tobis87, o_O Jul 28 12:19:25 tobis87: That sort of stuff is not suppoted Jul 28 12:19:41 tobis87: Even mms's had to be added by a third party Jul 28 12:19:43 tobis87: that's one of urban myths Jul 28 12:19:54 at least some bugs are usefull :-) Jul 28 12:20:03 based on that there was bug in one of phones Jul 28 12:20:09 that you could do that kind of trick Jul 28 12:20:31 but it was that you could call somebody and phone would automaticaly pick up the call Jul 28 12:20:57 jacekowski, backup with facts not further muck spreading - its no good if a friend of a friend of a friend once heard her boyfriend was once heard doing blah because of this Jul 28 12:21:22 give me a second Jul 28 12:21:40 gd Jul 28 12:21:54 hmm, Jul 28 12:21:58 i'll go eat first Jul 28 12:22:29 I'll legally upload it to somewhere... in russia Jul 28 12:22:50 up it to my server Jul 28 12:22:56 i'll be back in a moment Jul 28 12:22:59 i have to eat Jul 28 12:23:06 i mean nokiasiemens are famous for monitoring people: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8112550.stm Jul 28 12:23:34 aren't all network manufacturers? Jul 28 12:23:48 jacekowski, how? Jul 28 12:24:07 tobis87: theres a big difference between supplying a tool and using a tool Jul 28 12:25:14 frals: or indeed; being a tool Jul 28 12:25:21 ^^ Jul 28 12:25:43 LOL Jul 28 12:26:27 jacekowski, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/libflashplayer.so Jul 28 12:26:33 Oh, I had my USB gender bender here the whole time .. Jul 28 12:26:45 alterego: o_O Jul 28 12:26:59 What kind of an idiot would put it in his laptop bag ... Jul 28 12:27:11 tobis87: you cna NOT Jul 28 12:27:18 can* Jul 28 12:29:21 MohammadAG: ARM flashplayer? Jul 28 12:29:37 Duckboot, froyo's flashplayer Jul 28 12:29:41 Aha Jul 28 12:30:09 extracted from the apk Jul 28 12:30:45 libflashplayer.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, stripped Jul 28 12:30:50 Seems OK Jul 28 12:31:11 I don't do rm -rf libs Jul 28 12:31:14 :P Jul 28 12:31:22 eavesdropping and privacy breaches on GSM are quite well understood. You can send silent sms to make the ME answer and thus you get a good location. You can configure the phone in a way (by flashing new firmware or whatever) so it may start transmitting without proper notice, usually on inbound call. You even can make a phone divert all calls to another number and still claim it's the number you originally dialled. Jul 28 12:31:52 froyo's version is significantly bigger in size than maemo, that's a lot of trimming to be done Jul 28 12:31:56 but all this does NOT apply to switching on microphone on a standard GSM phone by any remote means Jul 28 12:31:58 You can track peoples location globally Jul 28 12:32:15 You can intercept their calls, and decrypt them if you're close Jul 28 12:32:27 th3hate, or it could be that flash 10 is larger than 9 Jul 28 12:32:34 something I'd expect tbh Jul 28 12:32:57 could be Jul 28 12:33:02 http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/researcher-show-gsm-intercept-attack-defcon-072610 - intercepting peoples calls Jul 28 12:33:03 ORLY? Jul 28 12:33:36 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/04/26/1736253/All-GSM-Phones-Open-To-Attack-Tracking?from=rss tracking GSM phones globaly Jul 28 12:33:40 SpeedEvil: Hmm some of those were known - yes? Jul 28 12:33:58 tybollt, are you here to waste CPU cycles by forcing Xorg to update the screen with what you say? Jul 28 12:34:00 :) Jul 28 12:34:04 SpeedEvil: it's not exactly decrypting Jul 28 12:34:16 s Jul 28 12:34:16 it's a man in the middle attack Jul 28 12:34:16 DocScrutinizer: Ok, I'm just paranoid on these things. But if you read stuff like this: http://www.zdnet.de/sicherheits_analysen_ghostnet_bedroht_regierungen_webcam_und_mikro_als_wanze_story-39001544-41003348-1.htm you have to become paranoid. Jul 28 12:34:19 oops Jul 28 12:34:22 tybollt: obviously all of those were known Jul 28 12:34:29 http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/354124/new_kraken_gsm-cracking_software_released/ decrypting calls Jul 28 12:34:36 DocScrutinizer: uhuh. Jul 28 12:34:46 kerio: I was meaning seperate attacks Jul 28 12:35:02 DocScrutinizer: I mean isn't defcon shitz about presenting new attacks? Jul 28 12:35:35 Completely neglecting the fact that tehre is no encryption at all once it hits the cellular companies network Jul 28 12:35:35 MohammadAG: I'd actually throw the question back at you :) Jul 28 12:35:43 tybollt, zing Jul 28 12:35:54 tybollt: that doesn't mean the attack wasn't known of before. Maybe just somebody found a way to *implement* it Jul 28 12:36:26 heh fair enough Jul 28 12:37:19 th3hate, maemo's flash is 6.4, android's is 8.x, not that big of a diff Jul 28 12:37:19 Anyone noticed sound is much louder and clearer in nitdroid than maemo? Jul 28 12:37:32 tybollt: the A5/1 rainbow tables forex are completely useless for authorities as they use IMSI catcher or simply go via official standard eavesdropping gateway at provider's PBX Jul 28 12:37:34 th3hate: sound from what? Jul 28 12:37:47 Mediaplayer, games .. everything Jul 28 12:37:55 i think maemo sound drivers are crappy Jul 28 12:38:19 is it possible to replace them? Jul 28 12:38:31 sound 'drivers'? Jul 28 12:38:34 yep Jul 28 12:39:14 well Jul 28 12:39:17 IMSI catcher is a MITM. Officail tapping is a standard worldwide now, on GSM and I'd call it "man in control" Jul 28 12:39:19 I don't think it's drivers Jul 28 12:39:31 LEDs are brighter in ubuntu, could be something limiting voltage? Jul 28 12:39:48 MohammadAG: huh?? Jul 28 12:40:13 check /sys/*/*/current Jul 28 12:40:18 th3hate: That is because on Maemo there is a limiter actually preventing damage to your speakers. Jul 28 12:40:22 MohammadAG: try asphalt 5 on nitdroid, sound is almost as loud as nokia 5800 Jul 28 12:40:30 and very clear Jul 28 12:40:35 th3hate: Full power output to the speakers will blow them up. Jul 28 12:40:46 fuck yeah Jul 28 12:40:46 that would be interesting Jul 28 12:40:49 n900nuke! Jul 28 12:41:08 a remote blow up Jul 28 12:41:18 kerio: n900nuke (c) DocScrutinizer Jul 28 12:41:26 DocScrutinizer: ._. Jul 28 12:41:45 Hey guys Jul 28 12:41:54 DocScrutinizer, /sys/kernel/debug/pm_debug/registers/current? Jul 28 12:41:57 anyone tried using the N900 to capture video straight onto my laptop ? Jul 28 12:42:09 well, my -> his/hers; laptop -> computer Jul 28 12:42:10 :) Jul 28 12:42:14 MohammadAG: *led* fool! Jul 28 12:42:19 lolk Jul 28 12:42:21 keep spamming .5s flashes every .6 seconds, blow up speakers, overclock the cpu, keep flashing everything Jul 28 12:43:57 matthew-: I had it streaming H264 to my laptop a while ago uising gstreamer Jul 28 12:44:01 SpeedEvil: shutdown was at ~3.2V iirc, at least bq27200 nicely registered at least the 7% threshold Jul 28 12:44:05 over RTP Jul 28 12:44:19 DocScrutinizer: with? Jul 28 12:44:39 SpeedEvil: was trying all kinda weird things to deplete battery further - no avail Jul 28 12:44:43 X-Fade: I wanna try the speakers at their full power, any idea how to :P? Jul 28 12:44:49 2 Jul 28 12:44:57 with? PR1.2 bme Jul 28 12:45:15 th3hate: Open device, get soldering iron and hook up to your 1000W stereo set? Jul 28 12:45:20 DocScrutinizer: right that's the pint innit? Why eavesdrop on the wireless when the govt has the means to pwn you at the PBX-level Jul 28 12:45:25 DocScrutinizer: bme always kills it right on the learn threshold for me - apart form maybe 1/50 discharges Jul 28 12:45:45 X-fade, lmao i mean edit the sound driver or something Jul 28 12:45:57 apt-get source kernel Jul 28 12:46:14 Use plain alsa or dsp IIRC. Jul 28 12:46:35 I might even assume it kills system *on seeing* that 7% flag from bq27200 Jul 28 12:46:59 th3hate: And make sure you play low frequencies, that will kill them nicely. Jul 28 12:47:02 lemme try to access the log file Jul 28 12:47:10 th3hate, tape it Jul 28 12:47:17 then up to youtube Jul 28 12:47:21 X-Fade: does warranity cover that kind of damage? Jul 28 12:47:40 th3hate: Of course not. Jul 28 12:47:43 no, I'm afraid brains don't come with a warranty Jul 28 12:47:44 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 233942 Jul 28 06:13 bqlog-fullcycle.txt Jul 28 12:48:06 And as this channel is logged, you're probably out of luck. Jul 28 12:48:26 lol Jul 28 12:48:40 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# tail bqlog-fullcycle.txt Jul 28 12:48:41 battery.reporting.last_full = 1222 (0x4c6) (int) Jul 28 12:48:43 battery.reporting.unit = 'mAh' (string) Jul 28 12:48:45 battery.type = 'pda' (string) Jul 28 12:48:46 battery.voltage.current = 3216 (0xc90) (int) Jul 28 12:48:48 battery.voltage.design = 4200 (0x1068) (int) Jul 28 12:48:49 battery.voltage.unit = 'mV' (string) Jul 28 12:48:51 info.capabilities = {'battery'} (string list) Jul 28 12:48:52 info.category = 'battery' (string) Jul 28 12:48:53 06:13 3150 7 6 -839 117 107 107 65535 8 46 1 Jul 28 12:48:55 06:13 3187 6 6 -754 116 106 106 65535 8 46 1 Jul 28 12:48:56 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# Jul 28 12:48:58 oops Jul 28 12:49:19 don't make me use quiet on you, doc :P Jul 28 12:49:28 sorry Jul 28 12:49:32 DocScrutinizer: perhaps Jul 28 12:49:32 please, let me Jul 28 12:51:24 back Jul 28 12:51:25 Well in default setup you don't get to 7% with bq27200, it reaches 3200mV at about 43% ;-) Jul 28 12:51:46 DocScrutinizer: crashanddie is waspy today Jul 28 12:52:03 Or atleast on my N900 bq27200 came with ILMD of ~2000.. run just "./bq27200.sh" to get the ILMD from eeprom on yours Jul 28 12:52:07 ShadowJK: right Jul 28 12:52:11 06:12 3230 43 42 -777 883 865 865 65535 67 46 0 Jul 28 12:52:12 06:12 3238 7 7 -671 127 127 127 65535 11 46 1 Jul 28 12:52:20 ah, right :P Jul 28 12:52:27 jacekowski, got the .so? Jul 28 12:52:42 bme threshold for me is higher than 3230 though.. :P Jul 28 12:53:05 MohammadAG: in progress Jul 28 12:54:26 jacekowski: is that a lot of work, or something you can finish today? Jul 28 12:54:50 depends Jul 28 12:55:04 porting something to different platform takes sometimes lot of time Jul 28 12:55:08 hmm Jul 28 12:55:17 rushing things = the mother of all fuck ups Jul 28 12:55:25 http://gynvael.coldwind.pl/?id=279 Jul 28 12:55:32 sfw? Jul 28 12:55:35 that's nice article Jul 28 12:55:40 yes Jul 28 12:55:51 btw it gave me nice TTFF of <~10s indoors! just for starting gpsjinni to pump up to 800mA Jul 28 12:56:31 DocScrutinizer, Jul 28 12:56:31 other measures taken: while true; do :; done Jul 28 12:56:36 current in maemo is 2 Jul 28 12:56:38 and taking video Jul 28 12:56:38 current in ubuntu is 50 Jul 28 12:56:52 says a lot Jul 28 12:56:55 ouch Jul 28 12:57:07 50 will burn your LEDs I think Jul 28 12:57:26 those are most probably specd at 10 Jul 28 12:57:26 as far as i remember that chip has current limiter Jul 28 12:57:35 can anyone remember that good maps program (with voice) for n900? Jul 28 12:57:41 sygic Jul 28 12:57:54 jacekowski, is that out now? Jul 28 12:57:59 yes Jul 28 12:58:11 jacekowski: (current limited source) that's what we talk about Jul 28 12:58:17 DocScrutinizer, that's a bit worrying Jul 28 12:58:34 "a bit" is euphemism Jul 28 12:58:41 so we are not talking about flash LEDs? Jul 28 12:58:49 no, RGB one Jul 28 12:59:00 they stole parts of my (c)ed n900nuke code :-(( Jul 28 12:59:16 the lp5523 Jul 28 12:59:40 Hi is there a way to turn the red light while taking a video off ? Jul 28 12:59:48 MohammadAG: also cjeck kbd led current!! Jul 28 12:59:49 I think the biggest issue is the cooling.. In order to push LEDs at 50mA+ in flashlights they went from plastic boadies to metal bodies in order to provide adequate heatsinking.. And even then it's not enough if the light isn't designed right, maglite drop-in LED conversions have built in thermal throttle beacuse there's no good thermal path to the metal case.. Old incandescent lightbulbs didn't care, they could run very hot Jul 28 13:00:11 But a LED tolerates slightly less heat than a CPU does :P Jul 28 13:00:28 DocScrutinizer, same, 50 Jul 28 13:00:42 for a 3color though, 50mA may be waaay too much Jul 28 13:00:54 yes, it's a bit blinding Jul 28 13:00:58 at 255 Jul 28 13:01:07 also for those micro buggers lighting the kbd Jul 28 13:01:26 you'll deteriorate the chip Jul 28 13:01:34 STOP IT, NOW! Jul 28 13:01:43 I only had it on for 1s... Jul 28 13:01:59 anyways Jul 28 13:02:02 ok, so maybe only half the chip gone up in smoke Jul 28 13:02:04 what's the kernel module for sound Jul 28 13:02:19 one more question - how to add 'Homepage' field for application(as seen in maemo packages site)? I see how to add Bugtracker field(Xsbc-Bugtracker) but cannot find how to add Homepage. Jul 28 13:02:21 alsa? Jul 28 13:03:02 alsa is not a sound module... Jul 28 13:03:27 chem|st: the alsa card drivers are Jul 28 13:04:10 but they dont even have alsa in their name do they? Jul 28 13:04:23 they are even the nly audio card drivers out there, basically Jul 28 13:04:29 everybody is using them Jul 28 13:05:22 so what's the module? Jul 28 13:05:47 check lsmod Jul 28 13:05:55 you'll prolly find it there Jul 28 13:06:03 I'm not on maemo Jul 28 13:07:26 hmm, actually no Jul 28 13:07:39 monolitic Jul 28 13:07:47 aka compiled in Jul 28 13:07:58 hmnm Jul 28 13:08:02 sound isn't working on ubuntu Jul 28 13:08:26 as they have the snd_* not compiled in to kernel :-P Jul 28 13:08:47 same kernel as maemo Jul 28 13:08:59 most probably also missing all the nasty weird PA framework specially tailored to meet N900 needs Jul 28 13:09:11 PA's there Jul 28 13:09:37 >>...specially tailored to meet N900 needs Jul 28 13:09:56 policy enforcer, dunno what shit Jul 28 13:10:36 battery went off Jul 28 13:10:37 kinky Jul 28 13:11:11 (PA) look at that: http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf then see if you can find similar thing on ubuntu :-P Jul 28 13:11:51 Hi is there a way to turn the red light while taking a video off ? Jul 28 13:11:57 also should give you a clue where to look for modules Jul 28 13:12:04 alschroe: yes Jul 28 13:12:13 alschroe: From memory, live-focus will do that Jul 28 13:12:19 lfocus Jul 28 13:12:21 yep Jul 28 13:12:38 or rip it off the whole board Jul 28 13:12:49 a really crappy clumsy app, but will do its job Jul 28 13:13:08 haha Jul 28 13:13:23 I suggest black sticky tape - less invasive Jul 28 13:14:43 SpeedEvil: on a sidenode: I charged the phone for ~6h via 3V stabilized + CA-146C, seems bat recovered sufficiently to boot flawlessly Jul 28 13:15:22 battery.charge_level.percentage = 46 (0x2e) (int) Jul 28 13:15:48 CSOC: 33 % RSOC: 33 % Jul 28 13:16:36 NAC: 585 mAh CACD: 585 mAh CACT: 585 mAh Reported Battery Voltage: 3739 mV Jul 28 13:17:35 where that nand is physicaly Jul 28 13:17:40 is it ON omap? Jul 28 13:21:07 jacek: did it work? Jul 28 13:21:13 flashmoduile Jul 28 13:24:57 not so fast Jul 28 13:25:04 it's not something that can be done in monites Jul 28 13:25:06 minutes Jul 28 13:25:50 * tybollt prods jacek ;) Jul 28 13:33:10 3g ups power consumption pretty dramatically for me Jul 28 13:33:23 jacekowski: yep, is on POP Jul 28 13:33:37 so where is ram Jul 28 13:33:47 on 2g with xchat it's 30-60mA.. 3g and it's 250-350 pretty much constantly Jul 28 13:33:59 because it looks like there is only one chip on cpu Jul 28 13:34:18 i think it's combined nand+ram chip? Jul 28 13:34:31 jacekowski: that bit of NAND prolly is in base SoC Jul 28 13:34:47 or maybe what ShadowJK said Jul 28 13:35:30 OMAP35x Silicon Tech Ref Manual Jul 28 13:35:40 will tell ya Jul 28 13:36:07 ShadowJK: yep , i try every time stay in 3g but is not posible Jul 28 13:36:11 consume a lot Jul 28 13:36:34 * ShadowJK stays at 2g most of the time Jul 28 13:36:55 me to Jul 28 13:36:57 * Corsac stays at 3g with data off Jul 28 13:37:02 yesterday night when I tried to run down battery quickly, switching back from 2G to 3G didn't 'help'. Even ping 8.8.8.8 didn't help Jul 28 13:37:08 maybe 50mA diff Jul 28 13:37:14 i am alway connected Jul 28 13:37:31 DocScrutinizer: web surf Jul 28 13:37:34 in 3g Jul 28 13:37:40 drain it fast Jul 28 13:37:46 try ping -s 1000, you need to trigger upgrade to 3.5g Jul 28 13:37:55 ShadowJK: exactly Jul 28 13:37:56 did that Jul 28 13:38:15 though -s nnnn not supported by MESSYBOX Jul 28 13:38:21 >:-( Jul 28 13:38:30 iirc Jul 28 13:38:38 -f isn't at least Jul 28 13:38:59 im connected and web surf drain power like will not tomorrow Jul 28 13:39:03 well it was at 3.5 all the time Jul 28 13:39:23 I have good signal here, obviously Jul 28 13:39:48 E0x: yep. noticed that as well Jul 28 13:40:15 but was not eager to surf just for draining battery, while watching TV :-P Jul 28 13:40:28 atleast beagleboard has nand and memory in same pop Jul 28 13:40:36 DocScrutinizer: a youtube playlist will do the work Jul 28 13:40:37 -s is supported Jul 28 13:40:37 :P Jul 28 13:40:54 E0x: yep, NOW you tell me :-P Jul 28 13:40:59 hahah Jul 28 13:41:38 anyway, is there a new pastebinit that actually *works* ? Jul 28 13:41:56 pastebin.com ? Jul 28 13:42:14 pastebin.com: command not found Jul 28 13:42:29 ^_^ Jul 28 13:42:32 cat foo | patebinit - Jul 28 13:43:25 gives me the basic URL of the service lately, not any link to actual pastebin I just upped Jul 28 13:43:43 all the pastebin services changed their API it seems Jul 28 13:44:14 so need a new pastebinit binary to deal with that Jul 28 13:44:22 sorry for asking here, lil OT Jul 28 13:45:28 *yawn* Jul 28 13:46:15 DocScrutinizer: useless use of cat! Jul 28 13:46:40 I know, but makes it more obvious Jul 28 13:47:09 pastebinit foouto wouldn't give a real clue about what I'm talking ab Jul 28 13:47:09 docscrutinizer: do use a binary? i thought they released it as a python script Jul 28 13:47:22 pastebinit foo wouldn't give a real clue about what I'm talking about Jul 28 13:47:51 DocScrutinizer: pastebinit - < foo Jul 28 13:47:58 maybe py script, maybe even other nasty scripting lang Jul 28 13:48:36 *yawn* Jul 28 13:49:02 apt-cache search on N900 seems unable to locate it Jul 28 13:49:13 http://www.stgraber.org/download/projects/pastebin/pastebinit-0.11.tar.gz Jul 28 13:49:43 meh, think that's the non-working version I got on laptop Jul 28 13:49:51 i had the same problem with this version too Jul 28 13:50:11 so i use lodgeit.py now Jul 28 13:50:38 yup pastebinit v0.11 Jul 28 13:50:57 DocScrutinizer: pastebiinit from debian unstable work Jul 28 13:51:10 alas RPM based distro here Jul 28 13:51:45 DocScrutinizer: hmm... nopaste still works Jul 28 13:51:51 pastebinit v1.1 Jul 28 13:53:19 and I'm somewhat sure I had a working pastebinit on N900 some months ago. Can't find it now Jul 28 13:53:43 nopaste? Jul 28 13:53:57 http://search.cpan.org/dist/App-Nopaste/ Jul 28 13:55:08 DocScrutinizer: wgetpaste? Jul 28 13:55:21 only depends on bash and wget Jul 28 13:56:14 MANIFEST, META.yaml, Makefile.PL?? WTF? Jul 28 13:56:40 but works ;) Jul 28 13:56:52 but HOW? Jul 28 13:57:28 some perl modules and a commandline thing Jul 28 13:57:34 isn't there some yum install nopaste? Jul 28 13:57:42 yum? on maemo? Jul 28 13:57:51 for Fedora yes... guess you're using the other one? Jul 28 13:58:01 no on maemo I'd prefer apt-get, honestly Jul 28 13:58:30 local distro Jul 28 13:58:35 ;-D Jul 28 13:58:42 hehe... that is long ago ;) Jul 28 13:59:09 not really, HQ still some 3000m away Jul 28 13:59:33 ahh... you could take a walk and ask them then :-) Jul 28 13:59:43 or kick asses Jul 28 14:00:02 when all the KDE4 devel have a meeting there :-D Jul 28 14:01:03 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders about other keystrings for apt-cache search Jul 28 14:01:12 on maemo Jul 28 14:01:52 you'll never get that nice battery drain log that way, gents and gals XP Jul 28 14:02:33 EHLO GAN900 Jul 28 14:02:54 meh Jul 28 14:05:20 DocScrutinizer, so, any idea what limits currents? Jul 28 14:05:30 clearly it's not the chip Jul 28 14:06:04 programmable? Jul 28 14:06:21 kernel's the same Jul 28 14:06:41 to order a archos, or not to order an archos, that is the question... Jul 28 14:06:46 what limits what currents? Jul 28 14:06:50 MohammadAG51: Jul 28 14:06:52 led currents Jul 28 14:06:59 MohammadAG51: which LED currnets? Jul 28 14:07:03 led_current is 2 in maemo, 50 in ubuntu Jul 28 14:07:09 lp5523(?) Jul 28 14:07:12 yes Jul 28 14:07:22 th RGB and kb leds Jul 28 14:07:30 but it's not the chip limiting currents Jul 28 14:07:40 I would not assume that brighter than the maemo settings is safe Jul 28 14:07:45 fsck pastebins - http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/N900-h-e-n/bqlog-fullcycle.txt Jul 28 14:08:06 MohammadAG51: of course it's the chip Jul 28 14:08:10 the chip limits the currents, yes. What else might? Jul 28 14:08:29 well why is it 2 in maemo and 50 in ubuntu Jul 28 14:08:44 because buntkuh is BS? Jul 28 14:10:05 DocScrutinizer, not good enough Jul 28 14:10:11 MohammadAG51: ??? Jul 28 14:10:26 MohammadAG51: Settings in ubuntu may not be correct. Jul 28 14:10:32 Why does this surprise you? Jul 28 14:10:38 yeah, it has to be even worse than BS to screw the LP5523.c driver for N900 Jul 28 14:10:55 Hi, DocScrutinizer. Jul 28 14:11:15 settings for what, it's the same kernel, and the same kernel modules Jul 28 14:11:44 mce does stuff to LED settings Jul 28 14:12:04 unless mce controls current, I don't see what's different Jul 28 14:12:53 where are you setting current or seeing the different values Jul 28 14:13:17 mce or bme or ... may in fact be setting the driver up differently. Jul 28 14:13:23 Ubuntu needs to match this. Jul 28 14:13:38 If the LEDs are brighter than normal, this could in principle be a hardware damaging bug. Jul 28 14:13:54 At least, it will drain battery Jul 28 14:14:26 781 led->led_current = LP5523_DEFAULT_CURRENT; Jul 28 14:14:49 87 #define LP5523_DEFAULT_CURRENT 50 /* microAmps */ Jul 28 14:14:59 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/leds/leds-lp5523.c Jul 28 14:15:59 255*50 is a sane current for LEDs - 12.7mA Jul 28 14:16:07 DocScrutinizer, it's the same kernel module... Jul 28 14:16:10 copied from maemo Jul 28 14:16:23 (hardware damaging bug) you bet. Those 3color LEDs aren't spec'd for 50milliAmps Jul 28 14:17:04 SpeedEvil: that's not how LP5523 works Jul 28 14:17:30 the current setting programs a constant current source, which then is PWM by brightness Jul 28 14:18:14 so currect(avrg)=current(cfg)*brightness/255 Jul 28 14:18:57 anyway 87 #define LP5523_DEFAULT_CURRENT 50 /* microAmps */ <<< o.O??? Jul 28 14:19:39 ah Jul 28 14:19:45 I don't see where's the 2mA on maemo from Jul 28 14:19:50 maybe mce Jul 28 14:19:51 see? Jul 28 14:19:57 that's what i was asking about Jul 28 14:20:10 oh well, will edit the module and set it to 2 Jul 28 14:20:11 sup everyone Jul 28 14:20:17 and I aswered with precise quotes from driver source Jul 28 14:20:20 anyway - if ubuntu is makign the LEDs brighter, somethings screwy with ubuntu Jul 28 14:20:28 or missing Jul 28 14:20:33 yes Jul 28 14:20:54 in this case, mce Jul 28 14:20:57 mce missing Jul 28 14:21:00 so simple Jul 28 14:22:12 236 for (i = 0; i < chip->num_leds; i++) Jul 28 14:22:14 237 lp5523_write(client, Jul 28 14:22:15 238 LP5523_REG_LED_CURRENT_BASE + chip->leds[i].led_nr, Jul 28 14:22:17 239 chip->leds[i].led_current); Jul 28 14:22:38 check datasheet of LP552x for actual unit of that register Jul 28 14:23:04 driver might be buggy on assuming it's microamps Jul 28 14:23:50 k, laptop up in car Jul 28 14:23:58 awkward, but less time wasting Jul 28 14:26:38 CURRENT Jul 28 14:26:39 D1 output current control register. Default 17.5 Jul 28 14:26:41 mA (typ.) Jul 28 14:26:42 26 Jul 28 14:26:44 D1 CURRENT Jul 28 14:26:45 CONTROL Jul 28 14:26:47 [7:0] Jul 28 14:26:48 R/W Jul 28 14:26:50 10101111 Jul 28 14:27:08 so 0b10101111 = 17.5mA Jul 28 14:27:54 k, compiled it w/ 2mA as default Jul 28 14:28:51 which means 0xAF = 175 == 17.5mA Jul 28 14:29:58 50 as in #define LP5523_DEFAULT_CURRENT 50 should result in 5mA, which sounds about right Jul 28 14:30:48 obviously the /* microamps */ bit is BS though Jul 28 14:31:21 should read /* units of 0.1mA */ Jul 28 14:31:45 sigh, coders Jul 28 14:33:42 hmm Jul 28 14:33:56 can i tether over usb? Jul 28 14:34:04 not as a modem Jul 28 14:34:11 like with ssh, or sth Jul 28 14:34:12 huh? Jul 28 14:34:55 nvm, i'll use joikuspot and turn off all hoggy processes Jul 28 14:35:34 MohammadAG51: you got that? with the current units? Jul 28 14:35:51 what's the value you got in buntkuh? 50? Jul 28 14:36:02 MohammadAG51: how is joiku better than the stuff in the repos? Jul 28 14:36:22 tybollt, idk, the stuff in the repos wasn't in the repos when i got it Jul 28 14:36:36 DocScrutinizer, I didn't reboot, road trip Jul 28 14:36:56 MohammadAG51: fair point ; Jul 28 14:36:57 ;) Jul 28 14:37:15 MohammadAG51: eh? you're not supposed to reboot. You just need to understand that 50 in current means 5mA Jul 28 14:37:49 DocScrutinizer, I'm in maemo, I can't check the value in ubuntu Jul 28 14:37:55 unless I kill mce, bme Jul 28 14:37:59 and load the modded module Jul 28 14:38:02 which is an absolutely sane and reasonable default for RGB LED Jul 28 14:38:51 has apple announced the "iPad nano" yet? :) Jul 28 14:38:57 btw LP5523 can't go higher than 25.5mA per LED - for obvious reasons :-P Jul 28 14:39:37 it'd implode? Jul 28 14:39:43 cehteh, yeah, a rebranded iPod Jul 28 14:39:51 DocScrutinizer: hey i hoped for high power rgb leds ... usually only driven at 10% or so for normal notifications .. but in some cases flashing really bright would be cool Jul 28 14:40:13 MohammadAG: TROLL! it's max of 8bit unsigned, for a unit of 0.1mA Jul 28 14:40:24 (and hey there is a light sensor too .. damn closed source blobs controling all that crap) Jul 28 14:42:40 screen readability in the sun sucks ****s Jul 28 14:45:45 MohammadAG: i am waiting for a white theme, high contrast theme Jul 28 14:46:08 cehteh, I was referring to my laptop, the N900's screen is k in sunlight :) Jul 28 14:46:08 and not grey with a lot gradient .. really white background Jul 28 14:46:17 just turn off the leds Jul 28 14:46:20 its ok but not really great Jul 28 14:46:22 cehteh: for f in /sys/class/leds/lp5523:*/led_curr*; do ls -l $f; cat $f; done Jul 28 14:46:53 my laptop is good readable in sunlight too Jul 28 14:47:04 (ok not good, but one can use it) Jul 28 14:47:10 cehteh: for (but in some cases flashing really bright) I recommend to set this values for r, g, and b to 100 Jul 28 14:47:20 your laptop isn't a crappy LG that's a 2004 model Jul 28 14:47:26 DocScrutinizer: huh why? Jul 28 14:47:33 I should've bought a laptop instead of two desktops Jul 28 14:47:44 * cehteh used 255 Jul 28 14:47:45 o/ crashanddie Jul 28 14:48:57 cehteh: for all I seen from specs of SMT LED like the RGB indicator, I'd assume they are specified at a ABS MAX continuous current of 10mA Jul 28 14:49:00 my normal pattern goes between 1 and 9 .. just dark glowing Jul 28 14:49:27 DocScrutinizer: i suspect that they are throttled with a resistor or whatever Jul 28 14:49:56 cehteh: nah, that's the CURRENT programmed to the constant current source of LP5523 Jul 28 14:49:59 doesnt look to me that 255 is too bright Jul 28 14:50:20 I'm NOT talking about brightness Jul 28 14:50:21 no way to throttle it with some external resistor? Jul 28 14:50:56 i somehow dont believe that you can blow the rgb led with bad patterns Jul 28 14:51:08 gpsd makes me sad Jul 28 14:51:13 cehteh: please reread my last 5 posts Jul 28 14:51:34 it used to leave the GPS off until some client connected Jul 28 14:51:44 yes, i dont believe that :P Jul 28 14:51:44 cehteh: you can NOT set led_current with patterns Jul 28 14:51:50 now it insists the GPS be constant on because that was "too confusing" -.- Jul 28 14:51:51 ah ok Jul 28 14:52:19 what you set in pattern is the PWM ratio for a given current Jul 28 14:53:35 so pattern aka brightness = 255 means current(avrg) = lp5523:*/lled_current (in unit's of 0.1mA) Jul 28 14:54:07 ok Jul 28 14:54:34 mce obviously is setting max current aka led_current for G and B to 0.2mA, and for R to 0.8mA Jul 28 14:54:39 so you can blow the led when reprogramming the current .. nice :P Jul 28 14:54:45 yep Jul 28 14:55:18 just like you can blow the flash LEDs by setting torch mode current to 200mA Jul 28 14:55:32 btw rgb are here all 0.2ma Jul 28 14:55:43 not 0.8 for are Jul 28 14:55:46 here R is 8 Jul 28 14:55:50 not 0.8 for red Jul 28 14:55:59 interesting Jul 28 14:56:07 -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 4096 Jul 28 15:25 /sys/class/leds/lp5523:r/led_current Jul 28 14:56:09 8 Jul 28 14:56:41 the kbd are all 50 aka 5mA Jul 28 14:56:45 yes Jul 28 14:56:49 same here Jul 28 14:57:09 b and g are 2, r is 8 Jul 28 14:57:25 they where all 2 here before i stared playing Jul 28 14:57:41 strange Jul 28 14:57:45 you think 10 is sane? Jul 28 14:57:57 higher current for R actually makes sense Jul 28 14:58:02 (you know exactly which led is soldered on the board?) Jul 28 14:58:18 nope, nobody except some Nokians know Jul 28 14:58:20 :-( Jul 28 14:58:38 compiz crashed grr Jul 28 14:58:53 but I'm confident the RGB LED is capable of 10mA at least Jul 28 14:59:08 and 50 Jul 28 14:59:23 so setting led_current to 100 should be safe for short flashing really bright Jul 28 14:59:29 for 5 minutes, at least Jul 28 14:59:48 MohammadAG: STFU Jul 28 15:00:01 you can NOT set led to 50mA Jul 28 15:00:22 your 50 means 5mA Jul 28 15:00:24 DocScrutinizer, hmm, funny, I remember last week I had the LED on for 5 mins Jul 28 15:00:32 oh, that Jul 28 15:00:32 nvm Jul 28 15:00:54 yes this smd leds are surprisingly capable ... i think i dont know a model which is rated fore less than 10 ma Jul 28 15:01:21 cehteh: that's virtually what I said Jul 28 15:01:22 DocScrutinizer, so the ubuntu one is safe Jul 28 15:01:28 MohammadAG: yes Jul 28 15:01:41 please read your backscroll Jul 28 15:01:46 I told you Jul 28 15:01:56 cool, I was starting to get worried about the script I made Jul 28 15:02:22 DocScrutinizer, on the road, I pinged a lot Jul 28 15:02:53 ~ubuntu MohammadAG Jul 28 15:03:01 :-(( Jul 28 15:03:21 ~unforget ubuntu Jul 28 15:03:24 infobot offline Jul 28 15:03:31 well .. mce resets the current and does funny things .. so no way to configure this i guess Jul 28 15:03:45 unless there is some hidden config Jul 28 15:04:12 I'm not sure mce is resetting led_current every 3 seconds Jul 28 15:05:35 at least on changing the pattern it resets the currents Jul 28 15:07:01 ls /usr/lib/mce/modules/ ... aha Jul 28 15:07:50 ~ping Jul 28 15:08:12 ~pong Jul 28 15:08:24 i think my n900 is bricked any help ? Jul 28 15:08:47 can i install maemo5 again on phone ? Jul 28 15:08:58 :( Jul 28 15:09:02 please help Jul 28 15:09:09 h4xordood: Depends on what you did. Jul 28 15:09:13 ~flashing Jul 28 15:09:19 UGH Jul 28 15:09:21 no no flashing Jul 28 15:09:29 i see nokia screen Jul 28 15:09:37 after that its rebooting Jul 28 15:09:38 hmm, nolo is ok then Jul 28 15:09:39 flash it Jul 28 15:09:39 :( Jul 28 15:09:49 how ? Jul 28 15:09:52 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware Jul 28 15:09:54 ~flashing Jul 28 15:10:06 hmm infobot is gone Jul 28 15:10:10 from memory... flashing is ... http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware Jul 28 15:10:19 I'm the new infobot Jul 28 15:10:30 its rebooting again and again till i take battery of from n900 Jul 28 15:10:33 ~MohammadAG Jul 28 15:10:34 it gets on Jul 28 15:10:38 and every thiing Jul 28 15:10:40 h4xordood: switch it off Jul 28 15:10:45 h4xordood: and flash it Jul 28 15:10:47 but it reboots everytime Jul 28 15:10:49 hmm.. i heard mohammadag is special Jul 28 15:10:52 okay :) Jul 28 15:10:53 h4xordood: overclocked with smartreflex? :) Jul 28 15:11:01 nah Jul 28 15:11:08 h4xordood: if you drain the battery you won't be able to flash it Jul 28 15:12:14 ok Jul 28 15:12:24 first i have maemo5 Jul 28 15:12:33 we don't care Jul 28 15:12:33 i need to download maemo 5 right ? Jul 28 15:12:36 yes Jul 28 15:12:40 latest version Jul 28 15:12:41 from where ? Jul 28 15:12:43 read that page Jul 28 15:12:50 everything is ther Jul 28 15:13:09 if you have question that's not answered there then ask it here Jul 28 15:13:17 otherwise - stop wasting our time Jul 28 15:13:38 jacekowski, any progress on the lib? Jul 28 15:13:51 no Jul 28 15:14:05 k Jul 28 15:14:10 i'm backing up porn from my hdd before sending it back Jul 28 15:14:28 cool Jul 28 15:14:38 MohammadAG: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED#Hardware Jul 28 15:15:15 DocScrutinizer: i banged n900 today ;P Jul 28 15:15:20 jacekowski: back into internets? :) Jul 28 15:15:24 i buyed it last week Jul 28 15:16:05 jacekowski: thnx alot . well how much time will it take to load maemo 5 on n900 ? Jul 28 15:16:25 h4xordood: depends Jul 28 15:16:26 h4xordood: @ l33t h@x0rdood l1K3 y0u sH0ud b3 @bl3 t0 f1X 1t? Jul 28 15:16:31 h4xordood: if you read that page - couple minutes Jul 28 15:16:35 h4xordood, 2 mins, or less Jul 28 15:16:43 h4xordood: if you don't read then probably couple days Jul 28 15:16:55 jacekowski: ha :) Jul 28 15:16:56 lol Jul 28 15:17:04 yeah i know lol Jul 28 15:17:11 X-Fade: may be :) Jul 28 15:20:17 ~nickometer h4xordood Jul 28 15:20:38 h4xordood is 1000% lame Jul 28 15:20:42 infobot gone? Jul 28 15:21:03 ~botsnack Jul 28 15:21:09 kerio, aww gee Jul 28 15:21:18 (yes, I'm this bored) Jul 28 15:21:19 MohammadAG: :( I thought you reserved those special insults for me? :( Jul 28 15:21:29 ~rape kerio Jul 28 15:21:48 * MohammadAG takes kerio .... umm, I'm supposed to do this? Jul 28 15:21:53 aye Jul 28 15:21:55 hell no Jul 28 15:21:58 * kerio runs Jul 28 15:22:04 * tybollt holds kerio Jul 28 15:22:10 behind wallmart and makes some grunts and screams Jul 28 15:22:14 what's the hole near the headphone slot for? Jul 28 15:22:40 kerio: it's to eject the CD if the power is cut Jul 28 15:22:48 on the n900 Jul 28 15:22:51 kerio, or it's the microphone Jul 28 15:22:51 ._. Jul 28 15:22:52 ~gimme_all_your_money Jul 28 15:22:56 ooh Jul 28 15:22:58 i see Jul 28 15:22:59 kerio: that's where you refill the gas - try it! Regular lighter fluid - zippo will do fine! Jul 28 15:23:03 kerio: meet the microphone ;) Jul 28 15:24:30 kerio, or it's the microphone is when calling... on a phone. Jul 28 15:24:41 hey image is that .bin file right ? Jul 28 15:24:42 damn, up-fail Jul 28 15:24:53 nope, that's the trash Jul 28 15:25:22 eh ? Jul 28 15:25:34 ROFL @ crashanddie_ Jul 28 15:25:35 slonopotamus, you wish Jul 28 15:26:14 h4xordood, images are usually JPEG or PNG. Sometimes even gif. Jul 28 15:26:26 DocScrutinizer: any idea if the current for the leds can be configured somewhere? .. gconf maybe? Jul 28 15:26:44 nope, sorry. mce is closed Jul 28 15:26:49 * luke-jr mutters at Fremantle using a poor IO scheduler Jul 28 15:27:01 afk, bbl Jul 28 15:27:04 luke-jr: which one does it use? Jul 28 15:27:15 anyway, I'm off for yet another job interview! Later Jul 28 15:27:29 crashanddie_: bragger Jul 28 15:27:50 hey, I've always been a bastard... Jul 28 15:27:57 BCMM: dunno, but it doesn't support ionice Jul 28 15:27:58 crashanddie_, bye. Jul 28 15:28:05 BCMM: and kills interaction Jul 28 15:28:10 crashanddie_: GL HF Jul 28 15:28:20 cya crashanddie_, good luck, you bastard Jul 28 15:28:31 (I hope I got my TLA's right there ;) Jul 28 15:28:32 >>do they pay you good for that stuff that you do?<< >>well I can't complain when the checks come thru<< Jul 28 15:28:35 GAN900: we need your input on the neopwn thread @ tmo Jul 28 15:29:05 tybollt, those are TLA's not TLA's! Jul 28 15:29:11 * DocScrutinizer suggesting F.Z. didn't sing about the devil, but maybe about crashanddie_ Jul 28 15:29:12 crashanddie_: :) Jul 28 15:29:14 aha exactly what I though Jul 28 15:29:16 luke-jr: my n900 is using cfq Jul 28 15:30:44 * luke-jr wants to ionice trackerd -.- Jul 28 15:30:59 STLA Jul 28 15:31:10 gah, dodby 'net connection Jul 28 15:31:13 shortened three letter acronym Jul 28 15:31:44 Hello all Jul 28 15:31:46 DocScrutinizer: you mean S Jul 28 15:31:50 or 2LA Jul 28 15:32:26 truncated three letter acronym Jul 28 15:32:42 luke-jr: shouldn't it be using noop on a device with no seek time? Jul 28 15:32:46 as that 2LA really is a 2LA as it has a digit as 3rd 'letter' Jul 28 15:33:23 docs :-) Jul 28 15:33:44 also, shouldn't CFQ support ionice? Jul 28 15:33:57 well, TLA is a TLA, ETLA is a ETLA, so 2LA should be a true 2LA Jul 28 15:34:49 not a ETLA like in STLA Jul 28 15:36:40 * DocScrutinizer should stop posting BS Jul 28 15:38:53 but BS is 2LA Jul 28 15:39:07 obviously :-D Jul 28 15:39:32 LOL Jul 28 15:39:34 jacekowski, how many GBs of porn do you have anyways, you should've finished backing up by now Jul 28 15:40:30 he's transcoding to super-HD on the fly Jul 28 15:40:42 brb peeps Jul 28 15:40:56 16.2 GB (17,417,868,343 bytes) Jul 28 15:43:11 seriously? Jul 28 15:44:23 no Jul 28 15:44:26 that's part of it Jul 28 15:44:33 + i have couple dvd's Jul 28 15:44:48 one with autograph Jul 28 15:45:03 her dvd - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linsey_Dawn_McKenzie Jul 28 15:45:13 boo she sucks Jul 28 15:45:17 (literally :) Jul 28 15:45:26 lol Jul 28 15:46:08 it'll be worth a lot of money when she catches aids and dies Jul 28 15:51:05 http://wiki.maemo.org/Making_themes <- this guide is valid for maemo 5 ? Jul 28 15:54:10 bug: proximity sensor doesn't get powered down/disabled when triggering even on proximity sensor while dialer app is about to tear down a call Jul 28 15:55:01 bug: SIP VoIP settings "advanced" doesn't allow to delete entries for "username", "proxy", on editing Jul 28 15:55:26 s/even /event / Jul 28 16:04:28 lol buying porn Jul 28 16:09:11 E0x, hmm not sure, i dont make themes, andrewfblack did most of htat doc by the sounds of it in 2008 and its only had marginal editing in 2009/2010 which to me sounds at least likely that it could still be valid Jul 28 16:10:14 E0x, would it be possible to have a try using its instructions, and if its correct or wrong indicate as such on the wiki (a note in the head saying this is ok for Fremantle is enough if it works) ? Jul 28 16:10:29 lcuk: yes look valid , i downloda the theme maker and say fremantle build target Jul 28 16:17:38 is it necessary that battery should be fully charged ? Jul 28 16:17:44 for flasinh ? Jul 28 16:17:49 flashing Jul 28 16:18:07 i have an odd problem Jul 28 16:18:14 30% is enough afaik Jul 28 16:18:33 when i turn on n900 it shows nokia logo then vibrates and reboot Jul 28 16:18:36 :( Jul 28 16:18:55 so i took battery off now its silent Jul 28 16:19:10 it's called a reboot loop Jul 28 16:19:21 thats big problem ? Jul 28 16:19:26 try to flash latest firmware.. Jul 28 16:19:28 need to reflash Jul 28 16:19:28 it's unpleasant Jul 28 16:19:28 not really Jul 28 16:19:41 i am new to maemo Jul 28 16:19:42 I've still not witnessed one of those :) Jul 28 16:20:00 actually i hacked to much with my n900 ;P Jul 28 16:20:17 tried installing meego and + mmc card is corrupt Jul 28 16:20:20 h4xordood, what were the last things you did on the n900? Jul 28 16:20:41 h4xordood: have you reflashed the original kernel? That might be all you need .. Jul 28 16:20:42 sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 Jul 28 16:20:58 i think i merged partitions Jul 28 16:21:18 so now bootloader doesnt find root part and it reboots Jul 28 16:21:29 rootfs is not on /dev/mmcblk0 Jul 28 16:21:31 i guess thats what i did Jul 28 16:21:36 rootfs is on the internal 256 MB NAND flash Jul 28 16:21:45 hmm Jul 28 16:21:47 you may have broken /home Jul 28 16:21:57 i didnt flashed kernal Jul 28 16:22:08 actually while installing meego i flashed Jul 28 16:22:20 but not with -f option Jul 28 16:22:25 used -l Jul 28 16:22:39 well, if you flash the firmware _and_ the eMMC image, your n900 will be as good as new (and will lose all data you put on it) Jul 28 16:23:07 I don't know if borking /home and/or /home/user/MyDocs can cause reboot loops, but I wouldn't be surprised Jul 28 16:23:23 i didnt had any data cause its like 5 days now when i buyed it Jul 28 16:23:29 good Jul 28 16:23:31 being h4xordood i hacked it Jul 28 16:23:33 :D Jul 28 16:23:48 actually you bricked it :P Jul 28 16:23:58 th3hate: exactly :P Jul 28 16:24:00 we abuse the word 'bricked' here a bit Jul 28 16:24:11 well, not total brick Jul 28 16:24:12 it's not really bricking if you can revive it by flashing Jul 28 16:24:23 but was my first attempt and learning Jul 28 16:24:28 what do we say then? killed it? Jul 28 16:24:32 what if phone gets bricked ? Jul 28 16:24:43 you throw it into the garbage Jul 28 16:24:53 and how does phone get bricked ? Jul 28 16:25:01 many ways Jul 28 16:25:11 examppple ? Jul 28 16:25:24 so i dont brick it Jul 28 16:25:31 dropping it from a considerable height Jul 28 16:25:39 ha :D Jul 28 16:25:41 h4xordood: charge it before flashing Jul 28 16:25:42 putting it in a dishwasher Jul 28 16:25:46 also install n900fly Jul 28 16:25:54 erase the bootloader so device can't boot anymore Jul 28 16:26:05 no way to fix that Jul 28 16:26:23 kerio: i tried charging but it reboots and reboots :( Jul 28 16:26:42 i think i have battery more than 30 % Jul 28 16:26:49 dude just flash it, will take like 2 mins Jul 28 16:26:49 it should be ok Jul 28 16:27:05 SpeedEvil: what was the window of bricking in the flash? Jul 28 16:27:20 SpeedEvil: heya :) Jul 28 16:27:49 flashing doesnt brick phone ? Jul 28 16:28:14 why would flasher brick phone? Jul 28 16:28:18 i mean like while install or updating bios on computer if u get error Jul 28 16:28:30 bios gets corrupted Jul 28 16:28:32 h4xordood: it might, if the power drops in a... 2 milliseconds window? Jul 28 16:28:41 ha :D Jul 28 16:28:49 after that tiny window, it gets usb power back so... Jul 28 16:29:47 last question Jul 28 16:30:24 when i connect usb with phone i see with in 2 sec that kernal written and phone vibrates is that all ? Jul 28 16:30:35 it would brick if you flash a corrupt bootloader Jul 28 16:32:08 h4xordood: have you done anything wierd to it? Jul 28 16:32:19 kerio: a few miiseconds Jul 28 16:32:38 may be i deleted some partitions Jul 28 16:32:43 thats all Jul 28 16:32:44 lol Jul 28 16:32:45 ah Jul 28 16:32:54 reflash it Jul 28 16:32:58 meh, you should be fine Jul 28 16:33:00 ~flashing Jul 28 16:33:14 start the flasher, connect usb while holding u, wait Jul 28 16:33:26 wait till ? Jul 28 16:33:35 till it's finished Jul 28 16:33:40 i mean phone vibrates Jul 28 16:33:49 well, you should also flash the eMMC Jul 28 16:34:05 Remove the battery Jul 28 16:34:13 plug in the USB cable Jul 28 16:34:18 Start the flasher program. Jul 28 16:34:25 It will say 'no suitable device found Jul 28 16:34:33 plug in battery Jul 28 16:34:42 wait till flasher completes Jul 28 16:35:10 Hello All ! Jul 28 16:37:11 i got message CMT flashed successfully Jul 28 16:37:19 good Jul 28 16:37:22 now i should remvoe battery ? Jul 28 16:37:30 you probably need to reflash the mmc too Jul 28 16:38:02 why mmc ? Jul 28 16:39:37 yes yes yes :P got it workin :) Jul 28 16:39:52 thanks alot guys :) Jul 28 16:40:47 why mmc need to be flashed ? Jul 28 16:41:43 you partitioned shit Jul 28 16:41:44 dunno Jul 28 16:42:56 yeah it says low memory Jul 28 16:43:05 how to flash mmc ? Jul 28 16:45:43 charge battery, flash EMMC_VANILLA, flash rootfs Jul 28 16:45:51 ~flashing Jul 28 16:45:58 grrr Jul 28 16:48:23 DocScrutinizer: after flashing nokia boots fine but i see 101 mb available. that means i should download Latest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N900? Jul 28 16:49:23 what? 101mb? so what you are complaining about? Jul 28 16:49:45 df -h / ->101MB is excellent Jul 28 16:50:56 what is vanilla for ? Jul 28 16:52:09 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware read that! Jul 28 16:52:20 i get message operation temporarily disabled due to low memory Jul 28 17:08:26 DocScrutinizer, we need infobot Jul 28 17:09:42 MohammadAG51: i did flash with indian firmware as i live in india Jul 28 17:10:07 but i think partitions arent same as it used to be when i buyed it Jul 28 17:10:33 so if i install vanilla would it be like factory reset now ? Jul 28 17:10:45 or i wont be able to get factory reset ? Jul 28 17:12:30 jreznik: hi :P Jul 28 17:13:26 h4xordood: hi here ;-) Jul 28 17:14:34 jreznik: just inaugrated hack on n900 and flashed it :P Jul 28 17:14:50 i am on stage to make native install of meego Jul 28 17:14:52 :P Jul 28 17:14:59 h4xordood: really? Jul 28 17:15:15 but little bit feared about meego unstaibility Jul 28 17:15:30 it could brick my phone Jul 28 17:28:02 You can't brick an N900 Jul 28 17:28:03 ever Jul 28 17:28:25 you can delete the bootloader Jul 28 17:28:29 * jaska puts some clay around it and puts it in the oven Jul 28 17:31:11 k :) Jul 28 17:39:06 MohammadAG51: citation needed Jul 28 17:39:27 flashing a bad bootloader results in something that has to be sent to nokia to get fixed Jul 28 17:39:35 doesn't it? Jul 28 17:40:19 yes Jul 28 17:40:24 As I understand it Jul 28 17:40:33 if something is written on rom than yes i guess Jul 28 17:40:35 :) Jul 28 17:40:40 dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ubisomething will do it Jul 28 17:40:52 SpeedEvil: awesome Jul 28 17:40:57 thats how meego gets install Jul 28 17:40:58 :P Jul 28 17:41:18 n900nuke: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ubisomething count=16384; reboot Jul 28 17:41:30 pardon Jul 28 17:41:33 n900nuke(c) Jul 28 17:41:46 SpeedEvil: i did dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ubisomething on newly buyed 16gb microsd Jul 28 17:41:57 and now its corrupt :( Jul 28 17:42:05 corrupt? Jul 28 17:42:08 you zeroed it Jul 28 17:42:12 n900 says memory card corrupt Jul 28 17:42:14 you need to partition it and make a fs Jul 28 17:42:18 well, duh Jul 28 17:42:19 :P Jul 28 17:42:28 but computer doesnt read it Jul 28 17:42:46 so iwas trying to correct microsd from terminal on n900 Jul 28 17:43:04 and i got into problem on n900 itlesf Jul 28 17:43:33 that was the time may be when i was correcting micro sd i did bad to n900 partition itself Jul 28 17:44:12 kerio: but computer isnt reading that card :( any softawe you know ? Jul 28 17:44:22 reading what? Jul 28 17:44:22 :o Jul 28 17:44:26 there's nothing on it Jul 28 17:44:27 *duh* Jul 28 17:44:29 the software is called "fdisk" Jul 28 17:44:43 on n900 its sfdisk Jul 28 17:44:56 mgedmin: but computer shows no card Jul 28 17:45:10 shows what where now Jul 28 17:56:50 I've heard something about that we can't create bright themes, If thats true, then how come? Jul 28 17:57:12 because it might offend the dull people Jul 28 17:57:28 ah i see. that seems fair Jul 28 17:57:57 omg pronto ilu Jul 28 17:58:26 o_o Jul 28 18:05:54 BCMM_: what? Jul 28 18:08:26 How can i cd MyDocs/Video clips Jul 28 18:08:30 space doesn't work Jul 28 18:08:33 se \ Jul 28 18:08:34 use\ Jul 28 18:08:38 Video\ clips Jul 28 18:08:51 or "MyDocs/Video clips" Jul 28 18:08:58 or cd MyDocs/Video Jul 28 18:09:00 err Jul 28 18:09:01 or use tab Jul 28 18:09:08 :D Jul 28 18:09:52 none did the trick xD Jul 28 18:10:02 tab doesn't auto complete too Jul 28 18:10:55 Vide Clips exist ? Jul 28 18:10:57 i think not Jul 28 18:11:10 Video clips Jul 28 18:11:11 yes Jul 28 18:11:20 MyDocs/.video Jul 28 18:11:23 or .videos Jul 28 18:11:27 exactly Jul 28 18:11:34 Video clips don't exist Jul 28 18:11:50 ShadowJK: thanks Jul 28 18:11:52 th3hate: the command: ls Jul 28 18:11:56 list the directorys Jul 28 18:12:15 man ls, for more info Jul 28 18:12:28 would've been useful if you told me 15 mins ago Jul 28 18:12:32 :P Jul 28 18:13:44 if you from some point are point directly to a folder i understand by common sense that you already know that point Jul 28 18:13:47 exist Jul 28 18:14:04 Ok inside /.videos there a folder called The Prestige Jul 28 18:14:11 terminal wont accept space Jul 28 18:14:17 i wanna cd to it Jul 28 18:14:19 quote it Jul 28 18:14:32 or use a backslash Jul 28 18:14:37 tab Jul 28 18:14:44 tab-completion (a) works, (b) inserts the backslashes appropriately Jul 28 18:15:23 finally after 15 mins of trying commands i reached the folder i want Jul 28 18:16:01 call that 15 mins of learning Jul 28 18:16:09 reset Jul 28 18:16:12 why are you doing this.. Jul 28 18:16:13 cwap Jul 28 18:16:14 :) Jul 28 18:16:17 that's exactly how long it took for me to figure out how to bind pageup/pagedown in zsh command line editor today Jul 28 18:16:38 pasuspender -- mplayer -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0 MyDocs/.videos/The Prestige Jul 28 18:17:15 is supposed to play video without pulseaudio = louder Jul 28 18:17:47 Some time ago, the "MyDocs" gets mounted using "rodir", which obviously means I cant change any file. Is there any reason why "rodir" should appear in /etc/fstab? Jul 28 18:27:33 I've no idea what 'rodir' means; my MyDocs is mounted the same way and I can change files, so it doesn't mean what you thing it means Jul 28 18:29:41 now I know what it means: http://git.omapzoom.org/?p=kernel/common.git;a=commitdiff;h=dfc209c0064efef5590f608056a48b61a5cac09c Jul 28 18:30:34 moo all Jul 28 18:30:37 heya mgedmin Jul 28 18:30:42 hi Jul 28 18:31:03 mgedmin, ah.. thanks. Well, in some folders it tells me "read only fileystem" when I try "touch foobar". Jul 28 18:31:17 that folder is read-only Jul 28 18:31:21 chmod +w folder Jul 28 18:31:33 DCIM, for example. ls -l lists r/w/x for the user Jul 28 18:31:50 and group and everyone else. Jul 28 18:32:04 MyDocs/DCIM is rwxrwxrwx here Jul 28 18:32:12 and touch works inside it Jul 28 18:32:28 maybe your _filesystem_ has been remounted readonly when the kernel detected corruption in it? Jul 28 18:32:40 run dosfsck or something Jul 28 18:33:03 doesn't the n900 file manager have a GUI frontend to dosfsck? Jul 28 18:33:51 Ah my bad.. forgot to remount MyDocs in my previous test; it tells me "Read-only filesystem" in all folders and MyDocs itself. Jul 28 18:34:46 sec Jul 28 18:36:40 "FATs differ but appear to be intact. Use which FAT? First or second FAT". Jul 28 18:36:55 Whatever that means Jul 28 18:37:19 you Jul 28 18:37:25 "you're screwed, and we won't help" Jul 28 18:37:30 that's what it means Jul 28 18:37:36 :< Jul 28 18:37:58 FAT - file allocation table Jul 28 18:38:04 there are two copies on filesystem Jul 28 18:38:13 which should be exactly same Jul 28 18:38:24 in your case shit happened and these copies differ Jul 28 18:39:04 so you need somebody who can understand fat FAT or program that displays both or something Jul 28 18:39:14 and verify which one is still usable Jul 28 18:39:26 or pick one at random Jul 28 18:40:30 do you understand? Jul 28 18:40:58 Yea just found a couple of posts. There appear to be some cyclic directory errors or whatever... starts printing stuff like "/Pictures/Pictures/Pictures/somefile.png". Jul 28 18:41:42 And filenames with a lot of "?"s in them. Jul 28 18:42:15 tell it to use second copy then Jul 28 18:42:31 and hope for the best Jul 28 18:42:38 otherwise you'll have to format it Jul 28 18:42:51 well, i would format it anyways after major damage Jul 28 18:43:02 and verify that's not memory card problem Jul 28 18:44:28 And how can I check wether or not its a hardware problem? Jul 28 18:45:02 something like sdparm for memory cards? Jul 28 18:45:34 uh, I have N900 with latest Maemo update. I have activated a SIP account and I can call and receive calls without problems, except that I can only seem to dial numbers I actually dial. That is, I can't call my contacts using SIP. Jul 28 18:45:41 what am I doing wrong? Jul 28 18:47:20 Hey guys, I have lost the "Availability" option on my N900, and I cannot use instant messaging etc, or Skype etc etc. Kind of a wierd problem, and I do not know how this has happened. Any ideas how to get it back? Jul 28 18:49:00 On the other hand, those "abstracted directory names" in the file browser might have something to do with my problems. In `ls` there used to be no folder called "Pictures"; the filebrowser displayed one though. I created one via console to put some comic strips into. And those folders are beeing complained about in dosfsck. Jul 28 18:50:56 technomike, did you check if your skype account is still there? :P Did you install some 3rd party apps that modify the IM behaviour (like extra protocols, pidgin, facebook-to-IM stuff)? Jul 28 18:55:07 hmm i just came up with idea Jul 28 18:55:14 buy blank omap Jul 28 18:55:19 without HS shit Jul 28 18:55:23 and resolder it Jul 28 18:55:32 that would probably void warranty Jul 28 18:57:55 jacekowski: are you by chance having problems with nolo bootloader? Jul 28 19:05:05 jacekowski: ok, nevermind, I was just curious whether you did have some practical problem or it was some random blabbering :) Jul 28 19:08:04 teilzeitstudent - Nope, nothing at all like that Jul 28 19:08:17 I can't understand why it has just disappeared Jul 28 19:10:53 jacekowski: on the flipside. Jul 28 19:11:03 jacekowski: you can buy an 850MHz one Jul 28 19:13:11 What's "HS shit"? Jul 28 19:13:22 high security Jul 28 19:14:50 technomike, thanks. dosfsck fixed the problem after a couple of runs. Jul 28 19:15:04 ssvb: my problem is that it can't be changed Jul 28 19:15:19 Hello all Jul 28 19:16:19 Though I do wonder how to get rid of those lame "Pictures", "Audioclips" etc. meta directories. they do not exist as actual directorys but are generated somehow. Does anyone have an idea how to get rid of them? Jul 28 19:18:26 jacekowski: that's the harsh reality Jul 28 19:19:42 jacekowski: fortunately, it should not cause much problems Jul 28 19:20:18 what do you mean, do not exist? Jul 28 19:20:22 ls -A MyDocs Jul 28 19:20:41 there are .documents, .videos etc. Jul 28 19:20:50 Pictures is probably mapped to MyDocs/DCIM Jul 28 19:21:20 jacekowski: and even with the non-HS OMAP chips, you are still not able to change ROM anyway, so you probably would not be completely satisfied either Jul 28 19:27:21 MohammadAG51: I'm not root on the box infobot lives in Jul 28 19:27:45 DocScrutinizer, i thought you were the owner Jul 28 19:27:50 MohammadAG51: so no idea why she is offline, or how to get her online again Jul 28 19:28:03 nope, TimRiker is Jul 28 19:28:52 is the genuine first of all infobots, the mother ibot Jul 28 19:30:34 metadirectories suck Jul 28 19:31:15 but nokia appears to like them ._. Jul 28 19:38:23 GAN900: mwkn *# your courtesy? Jul 28 19:38:57 did any one tried sfdisk to format 16gb mmc ? Jul 28 19:39:53 seems sfdisk is the wrong tool to _format_ anything Jul 28 19:40:10 hehe Jul 28 19:41:13 http://themeegoblog.com/2010/07/27/app-search-widget-makes-launching-apps-from-the-homescreen-a-breeze/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MaemoCentral+%28The+MeeGo+Blog%29 Jul 28 19:41:18 this is nice Jul 28 19:41:27 I'd suggest mkfs for any formatting purposes Jul 28 19:42:01 what if mmc card is corrupted ? Jul 28 19:42:38 DocScrutinizer, hmm? Jul 28 19:42:46 E0x: without looking at it, it sounds like a lame excuse for a proper subdirectory structure for orting / grouping apps Jul 28 19:43:21 GAN900: just asking whom to thank for eternal fame once more Jul 28 19:43:35 even with proper subdirectory structure i think this is more Jul 28 19:43:35 fast Jul 28 19:43:41 mwkn as of 26. Jul 28 19:43:47 DocScrutinizer, which story? It was largely Jaffa's work this issue. Jul 28 19:43:54 mhm Jul 28 19:43:58 *# Jul 28 19:44:11 freemantle-format-internal-memory-card.sh is used for ? Jul 28 19:44:46 ...the purpose that's in readme comment at start of same file? Jul 28 19:45:15 Oh, Jaffa. Jul 28 19:46:10 strange enough it didn't really have *any* impact on http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=starhash-enabler&os=Maemo5&repo=extras-testing Jul 28 19:47:24 at least got me one thumb-up it seems - so thanks to Harald Schmidt unknown for the effort :-) Jul 28 19:47:37 and of course thanks to Jaffa Jul 28 19:49:12 is there any fdisk for maemo ? Jul 28 19:49:29 fdisk or mkfs? Jul 28 19:49:32 there's both Jul 28 19:49:50 i see sfdisk not fdisk Jul 28 19:50:06 i ask for fdisk Jul 28 19:50:11 meh, same thing Jul 28 19:50:23 sfdisk is different Jul 28 19:52:45 does n810 do packet injection or not? Jul 28 19:52:49 I'm confused Jul 28 19:53:23 h4xordood: huh, it's the same Jul 28 19:56:39 i'm trying to look at the geotags on my n900 photos Jul 28 19:56:57 what can i use on the Linux command-line to extract that EXIF tag? Jul 28 19:57:44 exiftool Jul 28 19:58:04 apt-get install exif Jul 28 19:58:06 umm Jul 28 19:58:13 I forget what package it's in Jul 28 19:58:17 but it's on my phone Jul 28 19:58:43 it's ok, it's installed on my desktop already Jul 28 20:04:10 SpeedEvil: thanks, that's useful Jul 28 20:04:47 hya. slightly off topic but i just bought a used n900 (love it!!). everything seems to work fine apart Jul 28 20:05:08 from the fact that there is a slight noise when i shake the n900 Jul 28 20:05:19 like theres something loose moving inside it Jul 28 20:05:24 h4xordood: /me suggests cfdisk Jul 28 20:05:50 but everything seems to work well. was wondering if i should just ignore it or should i do something about it? Jul 28 20:06:44 zeltak, hold your finger on the kickstand Jul 28 20:06:49 and see if the rattling stops Jul 28 20:07:00 alternatively, insice the flap/cover on the MMC might not be clipped in Jul 28 20:07:05 inside Jul 28 20:08:33 cfdisk not installed where can i find ? Jul 28 20:09:14 thx lcuk i did both but the noise is still there..also i think it moves from place to place Jul 28 20:09:25 h4xordood: it's also in the repos I think Jul 28 20:09:39 zeltak, take the back cover off and narrow it down Jul 28 20:09:40 extras-devel? Jul 28 20:09:53 apt-cache search cfdisk; apt-get install cfdisk Jul 28 20:09:58 ok lcuk taking it off now Jul 28 20:10:59 ok holding the mmc metal thingi but the noise is still there (seems like its coming from the middle?) Jul 28 20:11:11 zeltak: there are reported cases where some small plastic latch of the kbd frame broke off and rattled inside the housing Jul 28 20:11:44 DocScrutinizer:it is definantly a rattle coming from inside the housing i think Jul 28 20:11:51 DocScrutinizer: how serious is it ? Jul 28 20:11:57 not really Jul 28 20:12:09 unless it blocks your vibra Jul 28 20:12:16 cool. just installed rdesktop on my n900 and i am on it now. this is really cool. Jul 28 20:12:17 as it did for MohammadAG51 Jul 28 20:12:26 no the phone still vibrates as far as i can tell Jul 28 20:12:36 so just live with the annoying sound i guess? Jul 28 20:12:42 zeltak, blue noise? Jul 28 20:12:43 yep Jul 28 20:12:53 MohammadAG: blue noise? Jul 28 20:13:02 thought you were talking about the camera, nvm Jul 28 20:13:15 no MohammadAG actual noise Jul 28 20:13:21 the audible kind Jul 28 20:13:21 my vibra isn't broken atm Jul 28 20:13:25 i just got it a few days ago and im loving it so much i cant stand the thought of sending it to nokia for repairs lol Jul 28 20:13:38 hmm Jul 28 20:13:51 DocScrutinizer, if the vibra is detected as a led Jul 28 20:13:52 though the housing is basically open to the overlapping area between lower and upper half. so holding it face down and shaking might eventually make the debris fall out Jul 28 20:13:57 I wonder if it's 'stronger' in ubuntu Jul 28 20:14:06 Hi Jul 28 20:14:08 no perverted talk please, thanks Jul 28 20:14:12 Somepone Jul 28 20:14:14 MohammadAG: has it led_current? Jul 28 20:14:19 Someone can help Jul 28 20:14:22 DocScrutinizer, it has brightness and all Jul 28 20:14:25 no it hastn't? Jul 28 20:14:35 zeltak, theres numerous accelerometer test programs you could install and try and try to shake out the stuff lol Jul 28 20:14:44 then it won't have different setting for led_current Jul 28 20:14:48 Does everyone success to install PPA on maemo? Jul 28 20:14:52 i see DocScrutinizer ..im not to technicall so i wont trust myself with opeing the n900 :) i can live with the noise if there is no damage Jul 28 20:14:56 what is PPA Jul 28 20:15:00 in relation to maemo Jul 28 20:15:05 nope, no led_current Jul 28 20:15:06 personal package Jul 28 20:15:27 hqkysq, if its just a standard repository i believe it should be viable Jul 28 20:15:37 but i dont know how the PPA is seen at backend Jul 28 20:15:44 zeltak, being a techy or not does not mean you can/'t ruin your device Jul 28 20:15:51 btw DocScrutinizer which keyboard part is it the broke and fell ? Jul 28 20:16:17 yeah MohammadAG i meant bad with tools such as a screwdriver ;-) that does ruin a device lol Jul 28 20:16:24 When I try to install a ppa packet I have this message : /bin/sh : add-apt-repository: not found Jul 28 20:17:02 add the repo manually then Jul 28 20:17:05 hqkysq, then this is part of porting - you need to find the source for add-apt-repository and find a way tomake it installable Jul 28 20:17:15 if you wanted to do it properly :P Jul 28 20:17:15 zeltak: do NOT try to disassemble the N900! Jul 28 20:17:19 but MohammadAG is right Jul 28 20:17:35 thanks, so I return to my scrachtbox? Jul 28 20:17:40 as I said, if it is just a debian repository you can add it from the app manager? Jul 28 20:17:46 DocScrutinizer: i wont..as i said i dont trust myself :) but thx for the warning :) Jul 28 20:18:02 zeltak, his warning comes from personal experience Jul 28 20:18:06 and he's an engineer Jul 28 20:18:09 zeltak, you have an analog multitasking musical instrument! Jul 28 20:18:16 people told you the N900 was multitasking ;) Jul 28 20:18:49 I wish I could desolder the 256MB ram and assemble 512 Jul 28 20:19:22 heheh lcuk good one :) Jul 28 20:19:28 zeltak: just hold the device like small "NOKIIA" on screen is most down facing, then slightly shake and knock gently. Depris might fall out between screen and kbd half Jul 28 20:19:33 what about USB Host Mode ? Jul 28 20:19:47 it is done ? or not yet ? Jul 28 20:19:49 ok DocScrutinizer will try that Jul 28 20:20:49 when it's ready it'll be on the forums Jul 28 20:21:15 yeah MohammadAG - FINISH hostmode!! Jul 28 20:21:18 why does everyone ask _me_? DocScrutinizer knows better, unless you assigned me as a FAQ communicator Jul 28 20:21:23 aha thanks ; i hope it well be soon Jul 28 20:22:06 MohammadAG: i was thinking about that Jul 28 20:22:15 MohammadAG: but you can't do it easily Jul 28 20:22:22 MohammadAG: you would have to modify nolo Jul 28 20:22:36 MohammadAG: as it's nolo that sets up memory map Jul 28 20:22:56 jacekowski, well, first you'll have to get past the hardware problems Jul 28 20:23:03 then you can worry about nolo Jul 28 20:23:08 like what? Jul 28 20:23:13 soldering? Jul 28 20:23:15 space? Jul 28 20:23:19 desoldering? Jul 28 20:23:28 ooh, we're back to RAM extension BBQ? Nice :-P Jul 28 20:23:28 memory chips are about the same size Jul 28 20:23:35 bbq? Jul 28 20:23:38 btw guys since it is a used phone another issue i may have is battery life..i think i get like 5-6 hours of battery life..is that normal?what kind of battery life do you gusy get? Jul 28 20:23:54 24h on gsmonly Jul 28 20:24:02 gsmonly? Jul 28 20:24:11 gsm only..gotcha Jul 28 20:24:25 I have 3 batteries, I need more for one day Jul 28 20:24:27 so jacekowski no wifi etc Jul 28 20:24:40 I'm always online with GPS always on Jul 28 20:24:47 MohammadAG: u need more then 3 for 1 day?? Jul 28 20:24:54 yes Jul 28 20:24:56 jacekowski: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-07-23.log.html#t2010-07-23T16:44:34 Jul 28 20:24:59 wow Jul 28 20:25:25 my old phone was a CRAPPY n97 but at least it had a full day of battery :) Jul 28 20:25:47 coming from n97 to n900 is like switching from win95 to kde 4.5 :) Jul 28 20:25:54 zeltak: with coninuous data over 3G plus GPS??? Jul 28 20:26:00 zeltak: unlikely Jul 28 20:26:10 nah no 3g anf no wifi (most of the time) Jul 28 20:26:15 DocScrutinizer, actually Jul 28 20:26:21 the N97's battery life was epic Jul 28 20:26:28 so is it worth getting a fresh batter DocScrutinizer ? Jul 28 20:26:31 I kept 3G on all the time at school, and it lasted me a whole day Jul 28 20:26:41 but then again Jul 28 20:26:47 no IRC Jul 28 20:26:49 :-P Jul 28 20:27:02 well, that would solve 2 problems Jul 28 20:27:03 CPU is crap, RAM is crap, vibrator made a noise Jul 28 20:27:05 OC and memory Jul 28 20:27:15 DocScrutinizer, I was on IRC and twitter Jul 28 20:27:17 so it would be possible to mount not HS chip Jul 28 20:27:21 not this server though Jul 28 20:27:22 and more ram Jul 28 20:27:51 i suppose it would be possible to do it with proper hotair rework station Jul 28 20:28:08 jacekowski, done with the backups? Jul 28 20:28:13 yeah Jul 28 20:28:19 started on the lib? Jul 28 20:28:21 do you maybe have older version of flash for droid Jul 28 20:28:28 9 i mean Jul 28 20:28:30 it never had flash afaik Jul 28 20:28:35 only flash lite 4 Jul 28 20:28:42 jacekowski: what? new SoC POP? No problem (well at least compared to->)modifying POP for larger RAM? FORGET IT! Jul 28 20:28:48 * peb_ is gone. Gone since Tue Jul 27 16:30:00 2010 Jul 28 20:29:39 btw one of the great things about the n900 is the awesome community..as a long time linux user i truly feel at home :) Jul 28 20:29:41 i once resoldered bga Jul 28 20:29:50 with just normal soldering iron and some stuff Jul 28 20:29:55 electric owen Jul 28 20:30:18 zeltak: yep, almost as hostile and offending as every community :-P Jul 28 20:30:22 just as proof of concept Jul 28 20:30:26 board never worked again Jul 28 20:30:34 but there was no visible damage Jul 28 20:30:40 i suppose overheating killed it Jul 28 20:30:49 hi! my n900 ran out of battery (while deinstalling an app). i have now attached the charger and it keeps turning on and off, showing the nokia logo with the usb symbol. i cannot turn it off, and the charing led isn't on Jul 28 20:30:53 either that, or solder short Jul 28 20:30:59 because i had whole board heated up to ~200C for couple minutes Jul 28 20:31:03 DocScrutinizer: good one ;-) Jul 28 20:31:25 GNU\caust1c: switch it off Jul 28 20:31:28 GNU\caust1c: connect charger Jul 28 20:31:31 GNU\caust1c: and wait Jul 28 20:31:34 it said "malfunctioning device, turning off" now, but it didn't do it Jul 28 20:31:37 GNU\caust1c: don't try to boot Jul 28 20:31:45 i cannot switch it off Jul 28 20:31:52 remove battery Jul 28 20:32:16 oO Jul 28 20:32:23 malfunctioning device? Jul 28 20:32:44 it was a camera app, maybe it tried to deinstall a kernel module :/ Jul 28 20:32:48 that's not from nolo Jul 28 20:33:05 not from nolo-2nd Jul 28 20:33:07 remove battery, attach WALLcharger, insert battery. If it doesn't show amber indicator, the switch off/remove bat immediately, then prepare for immediate reflash Jul 28 20:33:49 then* Jul 28 20:34:14 after attaching the charger, it got into the reboot loop again Jul 28 20:34:36 reflash Jul 28 20:34:45 I.E. attach USB to computer, prepare and fire flasher, nsert batery while holding "u" Jul 28 20:35:00 well, the battery isn't charged Jul 28 20:35:15 yesyes that's why I say do it NOW Jul 28 20:35:18 1000 replys the adobe flash thread :S Jul 28 20:35:23 okay Jul 28 20:35:30 well, malfunctioning device message is from dsme Jul 28 20:35:40 don't waste further battery charge on useless endeavour Jul 28 20:36:06 probably Jul 28 20:36:37 you could *try* and enable R6D Jul 28 20:36:39 r&d Jul 28 20:36:40 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Linux i guess that one? Jul 28 20:36:57 jacekowski: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59321 Jul 28 20:36:57 see if that makes bootloop stop Jul 28 20:37:08 GNU\caust1c: yep Jul 28 20:37:20 what is r&d⇧? Jul 28 20:37:33 R&D mode, set by flasher tool Jul 28 20:37:39 Research & Developments Jul 28 20:37:43 flasher --help Jul 28 20:37:57 flasher-3.5* Jul 28 20:38:27 might allow you to get normal boot, charging, and a console to fix things. Or at very least normal reflashing Jul 28 20:38:39 MohammadAG: yeah Jul 28 20:38:49 * DocScrutinizer waves Jul 28 20:40:00 --enable-rd-mode i guess? Jul 28 20:40:26 so coming back to the batt issues...is there a diagnostic tool to see how much the battery is "dead" compared to a fresh one? Jul 28 20:41:08 zeltak, theres plenty of battery monitoring things Jul 28 20:41:18 any recommedations? Jul 28 20:41:35 but the usage/consumption of bettery is usually more tied to how you use it than the battery itself Jul 28 20:42:15 yeah i know lcuk ..just wanna see if the battery i got withthe used phone is still in normal condition Jul 28 20:42:16 i use batterygraph but barely concern myself with it Jul 28 20:42:28 gotcha Jul 28 20:42:41 theress a maeomo 5 update? o.O Jul 28 20:42:46 http://www.brechpunkt.de/paste/eblzJ6hq.html Jul 28 20:43:02 the flasher doesn't find the device and it seems to disconnect immediately Jul 28 20:43:21 Do you use IM/VoIP/Skype, do you have facebook widget, twitter widget or any other widgets? Jul 28 20:43:39 email of mfe on autoupdate? Jul 28 20:43:42 or* Jul 28 20:44:57 lcuk: one more weird than the next, those bat monitor thingies Jul 28 20:45:05 crap crap crap, battery seems to be empty now Jul 28 20:45:51 get bq27200.sh, make sure RS=30 Jul 28 20:46:30 I think 20 is closer to truth Jul 28 20:46:40 GNU\caust1c: dead bat and borkes rootfs := you're screwed Jul 28 20:46:56 fantastic Jul 28 20:47:02 (it certainly matches better with charger) Jul 28 20:47:05 zeltak: this is wholly unscientific, but Li-ion is expected to lose roughly 20% of its capacity per year, so if you know how old it is you can make inferences Jul 28 20:47:44 if older than a couple years, I'd be surprised if it wouldn't benefit from a new battery Jul 28 20:47:45 and the capacity of a BL-5J ends up as 12xx :) Jul 28 20:47:54 ShadowJK: did a calib last night, see link to log I posted some hours ago. Now did a full readout which told me battery last measured=1700, changed 20->30: last measure 1197 Jul 28 20:48:09 thx magick777 for the info Jul 28 20:48:45 magick777, since n900 hasnt been around over 2 years i didnt think it was necessary ;) Jul 28 20:49:15 DocScrutinizer, starting value about 2000, max learndown 2000/8 = 250, 2000-250 = 1750 Jul 28 20:49:28 fair point :) Jul 28 20:49:29 yeah but maybe the guys put in a bl-5j from a old 5800 etc..i dunno im just getting really bad abttery time and i have 3g off and wife off most of the day Jul 28 20:49:42 hmno, battery isnt dead. i'm holding the u key, usb is connected, the flasher is started and i then insert the battery, but the flasher doesnt recognize the telephone Jul 28 20:49:47 when do you turn your wife on? Jul 28 20:50:32 i advise all to test " contact-zoom and Extended Contacts Search " it very nice add for contact Jul 28 20:50:34 lcuk: "your wife" lol..? Jul 28 20:51:06 DocScrutinizer, try a few more cycles from VDQ to EDV1 :P Jul 28 20:51:17 DocScrutinizer: any ideas? Jul 28 20:51:25 zeltak, it was you that said "i have 3g off and wife off most of the day" Jul 28 20:51:45 turning the wife on takes a lot of energy? Jul 28 20:52:01 its simple, just reach down Jul 28 20:52:07 put hand into pants Jul 28 20:52:12 pocket and grab the wallet Jul 28 20:52:33 and scream "Chooo chooo! all aboard!" ? Jul 28 20:52:35 ahh didnt see that lcuk heheh ..yeah good thing my wife doesnt use irc ;-) Jul 28 20:53:23 zeltak, ok, how long is battery lasting then? it might actually be worth you grabbing a new one to confirm difference Jul 28 20:53:33 zeltak, how bad is "really bad battery time"? Jul 28 20:54:07 GNU\caust1c: just the usual, as mentioned on wiki Jul 28 20:54:14 hmmm id say 5 hours max? Jul 28 20:54:29 make sure you use no hub, use other USB port on PC... Jul 28 20:54:32 and that's on standby or with active use? Jul 28 20:54:34 i havent testes it from 100 to 0 yet but i think thats about it Jul 28 20:55:01 that's approx what you'd get with constant surfing or moviewatching Jul 28 20:55:09 I can pretty much kill a brand new N900 in 4-6 hours of active use Jul 28 20:55:10 magick777: mixed..not continous use but i do use it every 10-15 minutes or so for a few minutes Jul 28 20:55:31 what apps do you run Jul 28 20:55:39 but if that's yer standby time, something's up... Jul 28 20:55:44 playing games gps maps etc? Jul 28 20:55:51 recompiling kernel Jul 28 20:56:13 hmmm some deamons (headphone daemon etc..) the terminal sometimes the broser Jul 28 20:56:30 magick777: its definantly not all standby.. Jul 28 20:56:52 even voice calls in 3g mode will knacker it, is only rated for 5h of 3g talktime Jul 28 20:57:07 [2010-07-28 22:49:15] DocScrutinizer, starting value about 2000, Jul 28 20:57:11 zeltak, flash sites? Jul 28 20:57:12 eeprom data: Jul 28 20:57:14 ILMD=1370 EDVF=3000 EDV1=3248 ISLC=13 Jul 28 20:57:32 DocScrutinizer, LRN2PASTEBIN :p Jul 28 20:57:41 > If the USB logo does not appear, and the device turns off - ensure the battery is charged by connecting to the wall charger for an hour and try again. Jul 28 20:57:42 lcuk: no not at all flash sites Jul 28 20:57:45 for 2 lines??? Jul 28 20:57:47 * lcuk pasted a 20line log earlier lol Jul 28 20:57:55 so im screwed because its not charged enough? Jul 28 20:58:12 DocScrutinizer, so what's your LMD now? Jul 28 20:58:19 i think ill try to run it down to zero tomorrow after a night charge and time it then ill reoprt back Jul 28 20:58:43 zeltak, install the batterygraph or similar app Jul 28 20:58:49 ill will do lcuk Jul 28 20:58:50 ShadowJK: huh? LMD? got ILMD, see above Jul 28 20:58:52 and then whilst you are using it and whilst idle it will log Jul 28 20:59:06 sweet thats good Jul 28 20:59:08 its a pretty graph that can help jog your memory about what you were doing Jul 28 20:59:10 DocScrutinizer, Last Measured Discharge Jul 28 20:59:21 and if its REALLY draining whilst you are idle can look again etc Jul 28 20:59:46 Last Measured Discharge: 1196 mAh Jul 28 21:00:00 btw what cool programs do you guys use on the cli? on my nix machine i use alot of ncurses programs (ncmpcpp,weechat,tasks etc..) Jul 28 21:00:15 wondering if there are any cool ones for the n900? Jul 28 21:00:36 * lcuk tries to stay away from the console where possible Jul 28 21:00:51 oh crap Jul 28 21:01:01 DocScrutinizer, that's ILMD - ILMD/8 :) Jul 28 21:01:45 Cycle Count since Learning: 1 Total Cycle Count since last full reset: 7 Jul 28 21:01:51 Last Measured Discharge will only be "right" once it makes a step significantly smaller than previous LMD/8 Jul 28 21:01:56 maybe you're right - just maybe Jul 28 21:02:05 read the datasheet Jul 28 21:02:46 it's worded a bit strange though Jul 28 21:03:20 not for the learning, for the more sane values over all Jul 28 21:03:39 GNU\caust1c: hopefully not Jul 28 21:03:48 when I put BL-5J in after Mugen, it took like half a week of ferocious cycling before bq27200 had learned down to something sensible :) Jul 28 21:04:12 It's worse for up-learning, it does nothing at all if the difference is too big Jul 28 21:04:26 if you can i guess... buy another battery? Jul 28 21:04:29 :( Jul 28 21:04:29 ShadowJK: we NEED that friggin value for RS Jul 28 21:04:37 the real measured value Jul 28 21:04:48 DocScrutinizer, iirc SpeedEvil uses 21 or 22 :) Jul 28 21:04:53 I use a round 20 Jul 28 21:05:23 I don't care what anybody uses, I say we need to proerly PROBE it Jul 28 21:05:25 I first, too, guessed 30 31 or 32 something because it made ILMD and first LMD look "right" Jul 28 21:05:34 hmm it looks like somebody was spreading FUD Jul 28 21:05:43 nolo 2nd isn't signed Jul 28 21:05:47 * DocScrutinizer afk, ttyl Jul 28 21:05:52 i'm really wondering why the telephone cannot charge without booting :/ Jul 28 21:06:00 only nolo x-loader is signed Jul 28 21:06:05 so Jul 28 21:06:17 * slonopotamus runs N900 @1.1GHz Jul 28 21:06:26 looks stable... Jul 28 21:06:35 your cpu will burn Jul 28 21:06:39 there is special hell Jul 28 21:06:49 for people talking in theatres Jul 28 21:06:52 i guess i'll have to wait 1-2 weeks until i can get a charged battery Jul 28 21:06:53 child molesters Jul 28 21:06:56 and overclockers Jul 28 21:06:58 GNU\caust1c: ask DocScrutinizer or SpeedEvil Jul 28 21:07:07 it doesn't burn, it just becomes sand Jul 28 21:07:31 jacekowski: leave that stuff for small children... Jul 28 21:07:51 lol Jul 28 21:08:11 1.1 is asking for serious trouble Jul 28 21:08:15 sigsegv aplenty Jul 28 21:08:41 kerio: no symptoms for 20 mins already :/ Jul 28 21:09:05 GNU\caust1c: remove the battery, attach wallcharger, put on battery Jul 28 21:09:07 now i need mmc overclocker Jul 28 21:09:21 slonopotamus: lol Jul 28 21:09:31 slonopotamus: uhm, where do you live? Jul 28 21:09:39 because hitting swap became much more visible Jul 28 21:09:41 what kind of CPU speed would ppl regard as safe? I've stuck with the 850 from the "ideal" config, not sure I want to push it Jul 28 21:09:48 drizztbsd: at home :/ Jul 28 21:09:54 country?... Jul 28 21:09:54 this results in the reboot loop Jul 28 21:10:02 drizztbsd: russia Jul 28 21:10:06 magick777: that processor can run stable at 1GHz Jul 28 21:10:12 500 is safe according to the manufacturer. Jul 28 21:10:14 ah ok, is so cold here Jul 28 21:10:14 magick777: but it drasticaly reduces it's life Jul 28 21:10:30 drizztbsd: +29 outside currently Jul 28 21:10:37 Hi, need to talk about ppa on maemo please Jul 28 21:10:48 magick777: huh... 600? Jul 28 21:10:49 drizztbsd: up to +34 at noon Jul 28 21:10:49 like TI said? Jul 28 21:10:50 who already did this? Jul 28 21:10:57 magick777: by drasticaly i mean that there were already cases of dead phones because of OC Jul 28 21:11:01 yea, I'm assuming that the kernel-config "ideal" is a good balance... but don't know if that will cause problems long term Jul 28 21:11:03 34C or F? :) Jul 28 21:11:08 C Jul 28 21:11:20 who uses F anyway Jul 28 21:11:27 magick777: surely more than the stock settings Jul 28 21:11:34 americans? :D Jul 28 21:11:44 drizztbsd: safe to ignore. Jul 28 21:11:47 kerio, no TI says 500 Jul 28 21:12:27 DocScrutinizer: help for GNU\caust1c? Jul 28 21:12:30 drizztbsd: let them talk to britains with all their screwed up measure units. Jul 28 21:12:47 I know the official answer is 500, the question is what people do in practice... Jul 28 21:13:16 magick777: depends on particular piece Jul 28 21:13:37 kelvin is the only consistant temperature measuring unit Jul 28 21:13:40 besides, it's not like stuff stops working or gets unstable immediately once you reach the max. Once you're over this unknown point, the cpu starts degrading while still functionen correctly. Then one day it'll either be unstable at every frequency, or not work at all :) Jul 28 21:13:40 magick777: mine hangs soon if smart refle is enabled but runs stable @1.1GHz Jul 28 21:13:59 ShadowJK: stop that FUD Jul 28 21:14:09 magick777: stock Jul 28 21:14:10 anything more than that is stupid Jul 28 21:14:12 ShadowJK: that's like ssd wear-out Jul 28 21:14:22 yes it is Jul 28 21:14:32 no one install ppa on maemo Jul 28 21:14:33 everyone is scared, but noone saw it in practice Jul 28 21:14:38 besides, just extrapolate the datasheet :P Jul 28 21:14:41 so the majority opinion is don't o/c at all? Jul 28 21:14:51 meh Jul 28 21:14:57 o/c if you want Jul 28 21:15:01 do what you want! Jul 28 21:15:15 I am using fairly conservative settings, not sure I'd go for 1.1 though... so the question is really what ppl get away with long term Jul 28 21:15:27 magick777: *stock* Jul 28 21:15:53 * slonopotamus had amd k6-2 @233MHz overclocked up to 400MHz :) that was very impressive gain at that time. Jul 28 21:16:53 need help !!!! Jul 28 21:16:57 magick777: believe me, there are lots of pieces in n900 that will die much faster than cpu Jul 28 21:17:23 hqkysq: wtf is ppa for maemo? Jul 28 21:17:37 hrmm, so everyone bar slonopotamus and I is running with limits of 250 & 600? really? Jul 28 21:17:44 PErsonal PAckage Archive Jul 28 21:17:45 PersonalPackageArchive? Jul 28 21:17:49 well datasheet for cpu promises 50 years at 500, 5 years at 600 :) Jul 28 21:18:01 iirc Jul 28 21:18:02 hqkysq: i know what's ppa. i asked what's ppa for maemo? Jul 28 21:18:21 Personal Package Archive for maemo packages? Jul 28 21:18:30 ShadowJK: two dots isn't enough Jul 28 21:18:31 I need the packet add-apt-repository Jul 28 21:18:40 but I can't find the source Jul 28 21:18:51 hqkysq, maemo doesn't have a ppa system Jul 28 21:18:51 slonopotamus, it's not FUD. :) Jul 28 21:18:52 hqkysq: there aint any. use app manager Jul 28 21:19:02 GAN900: prooflink? Jul 28 21:19:04 it doesn't use launchpad Jul 28 21:19:08 slonopotamus, please don't spread false promises of safety from harm. Jul 28 21:19:11 I don't find it in app Jul 28 21:19:17 ShadowJK: 700 = 6 months? Jul 28 21:19:28 800 = 18 days Jul 28 21:19:31 GAN900: hordes of ppl crying around due to N900 cpu burnt away? Jul 28 21:19:32 who knows :P Jul 28 21:20:26 900 = 1.8 days Jul 28 21:20:39 I've seen people whning maemo is so friggin unstable, and then they've said it can't be overclock because the went back to 600MHz Jul 28 21:20:46 :P Jul 28 21:20:53 I am inclined to distrust 1.1GHz as too high, but I'll bet Nokia is more conservative than I am Jul 28 21:20:55 kerio: helloo! you can't extrapolate from two measurements. Jul 28 21:21:07 nokia doesn't want to sell a slow phone Jul 28 21:21:17 kerio: it does! Jul 28 21:21:24 if they could've made it faster, they would've Jul 28 21:21:52 kerio: how it'll sell next model @800MHz for twice price? Jul 28 21:22:03 it won't, duh Jul 28 21:22:38 hw vendors don't want you to use more power than they expect. Jul 28 21:22:43 Well if the next model comes at .72 or 1.0, then you can probably OC it higher than you can OC N900 :P Jul 28 21:22:45 do you see a 800mhz n900 for twice the price? Jul 28 21:22:49 because it complicates futher sells Jul 28 21:23:22 ShadowJK: no, why? it could have same cpu Jul 28 21:23:36 slonopotamus, electromigration. Look it up. Jul 28 21:23:55 And the next one is expected to have a process shrink. . . . Jul 28 21:24:12 Unless you're talking about Xeons, it's not some grand conspiracy. Jul 28 21:24:48 that's common practice - make several devices with same hw and programmatically restrict some features on different models Jul 28 21:25:08 all cell phone industry does that Jul 28 21:25:15 GAN900: it's the new world order that wants you to have a laggy browser! Jul 28 21:25:27 * kerio runs for his tinfoil hat Jul 28 21:25:53 GAN900: theory != practice Jul 28 21:26:05 slonopotamus, electromigration. Look it up. Jul 28 21:26:07 slonopotamus, there are like 40 different "Omap 3530", the one in N900 is made for 600MHz overdrive.. There's also a newer 720MHz variant, and then there's probably a dieshrunk version on the way or sampling.. Jul 28 21:26:27 There's a reason TI and Nokia engineers consistently say it's a bad idea. Jul 28 21:26:36 But, hey, it's your money. Jul 28 21:26:52 (well, actually i got it for free) Jul 28 21:26:53 OMAP3430 in the N900 Jul 28 21:27:16 oops yeah, 3530 is beagleboard Jul 28 21:27:17 OMAP3630 is 45nm Jul 28 21:27:23 but same thing :P Jul 28 21:27:23 GAN900: i looked it up. and? Jul 28 21:27:45 slonopotamus, that's the issue you're dealing with on the N900. Jul 28 21:27:49 ShadowJK, sort of. Jul 28 21:28:17 Larger ball pitch on the 3530, missing some proprietary stuff, and now it's speed binned. Jul 28 21:28:28 Or the process has just improved, I guess. Jul 28 21:28:50 GAN900: heck, that's the issue you're dealing in anything where electrons move. Jul 28 21:30:42 GAN900: do you have _any_ real evidence of n900 cpu damage caused by >600mhz frequency? Jul 28 21:30:49 slonopotamus: yes Jul 28 21:30:59 slonopotamus: there were already cases of dead devices Jul 28 21:31:24 jacekowski: there were cases of dead devices without overclocking. Jul 28 21:31:26 + failure data from TI Jul 28 21:31:45 and they are not allowed to lie in that kind of whitepapers Jul 28 21:31:48 jacekowski: were those cases you're talking about _caused_ by overclocking? Jul 28 21:31:57 slonopotamus: YES Jul 28 21:32:38 jacekowski: how it compares in % with devices that died due to falling? :) Jul 28 21:33:07 i don't have that sort of numbers Jul 28 21:33:59 * slonopotamus fails to google that cases Jul 28 21:34:05 jacekowski: got a link? Jul 28 21:34:43 slonopotamus: do you know the Sudden Northwood Death Syndrome Jul 28 21:34:46 read channel archives Jul 28 21:35:31 jacekowski: haven't seen anything but "be careful! nokians say overclocking is harmful" Jul 28 21:35:50 dead by overclocking is an urban legend! Jul 28 21:35:53 *death Jul 28 21:36:05 GNU\caust1c: no Jul 28 21:36:27 they say even locking N900 to 600 is dangerous :) Jul 28 21:36:55 do whatever you want Jul 28 21:37:06 but it causes much more stress on all components Jul 28 21:37:11 ShadowJK: as everything that was not officially allowed Jul 28 21:37:25 including small thin tracks buried under couple layers of pcb Jul 28 21:37:27 there seems only to be a german wikipedia page. it was to pentium 4 times and those processors suddenly died when being overclocked. as someone mentioned its caused by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration Jul 28 21:38:16 http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/news6375.html Jul 28 21:38:56 jacekowski: ... stop theorizing, please. turning n900 on makes more harm than keeping it always off. Jul 28 21:39:27 and taking it out of your pocket while on street makes MUCH more harm Jul 28 21:39:44 it can fall, it can be stolen, god knows what else Jul 28 21:40:27 n900 is 3530 iirc Jul 28 21:40:30 jacekowski: that link is totally irrelevant to n900 cpu. Jul 28 21:40:59 * DocScrutinizer51 kicks ass of autokicker for failing miserably on kicking slonopotamus Jul 28 21:41:38 DocScrutinizer: meh, it would be just too boring here. Jul 28 21:42:03 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V47-47X262P-3R&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F1984&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4a9fdf2acdf0d83fcea4de994fb55478 Jul 28 21:42:23 without you telling you know better while proving tou know nuttin? sure! Jul 28 21:43:21 this study is from 26 years ago Jul 28 21:43:35 wouldn't the parts manufactured today be more reliable? Jul 28 21:43:50 Yes, they are ptl. Jul 28 21:43:53 ptl: :) Jul 28 21:43:56 ptl: If designed to be. Jul 28 21:44:13 ptl: mobile phone CPUs are intentionally run at the edge, for a number of reasons Jul 28 21:44:19 nite all, sweet dreams Jul 28 21:44:37 is electormigration caused by the frequency of the electric field alone? .. to my understanding it needs currents, and heat Jul 28 21:44:47 http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1667062.1667066 Jul 28 21:44:59 just currents Jul 28 21:45:08 heat helps Jul 28 21:45:18 but heat alone can do nothing Jul 28 21:45:30 that's not what she said Jul 28 21:45:38 jacekowski: do you drink alcohol? Jul 28 21:45:45 no Jul 28 21:45:52 it's to dangerous Jul 28 21:46:00 jacekowski: drive a car? Jul 28 21:46:10 do you breath? Jul 28 21:46:17 stop asking these stupid questions Jul 28 21:46:20 haha Jul 28 21:46:20 so just raising the frequency while maintaining or dropping the voltage shouldnt do much more damage, just frequency increase has a small effect on heat generation Jul 28 21:46:24 do you work out? Jul 28 21:46:34 do you have a gf? Jul 28 21:46:37 cehteh: it has huge effect Jul 28 21:46:50 cehteh: increase in frequency increases current Jul 28 21:46:59 jacekowski: lots of people (with publically available numbers) die of those stuff. and so what? life goes on, ppl continue to use cars. Jul 28 21:47:15 jacekowski: in case of n900 cpu you even don't have numbers Jul 28 21:47:17 changing frequencies stresses the device? Jul 28 21:47:28 slonopotamus: there are numbers Jul 28 21:47:30 so cpufreq scaling is dangerous/unappropriate? Jul 28 21:47:32 ptl: yes, but noone can say how much. Jul 28 21:47:56 ptl: changing the freq above and beyond spec, yes Jul 28 21:48:06 even under spec Jul 28 21:48:15 ideally same Jul 28 21:48:17 hmm Jul 28 21:48:25 precisely same on atoms level devices Jul 28 21:48:27 ? Jul 28 21:48:30 run with same voltages Jul 28 21:48:33 ran* Jul 28 21:48:39 but at different frequencies Jul 28 21:48:50 the one with higher frequency will fail sooner Jul 28 21:49:16 if you want your n900 to last longer, quickly turn it off and never turn on again. that way (and if stored with care) it can live up to 20 years. though battery will die anyway, sorry Jul 28 21:49:35 * slonopotamus got tired of this. Jul 28 21:49:43 hehe Jul 28 21:49:47 let's better talk about bme Jul 28 21:49:54 when the n9 comes out, we will all buy new phones anyway Jul 28 21:50:10 huh? Jul 28 21:50:15 for sure not Jul 28 21:50:26 the n0kia compels you Jul 28 21:50:35 all you're base are belong to them! Jul 28 21:50:38 tripzero: even if it doesn't, phones are not used for more than 5 years. Jul 28 21:50:43 leaving aside the purely facetious, what do ppl actually *do*? I know what the official advice is, and that it increases risk of failure... but how many of the ppl advising against overclocking are actually running a stock kernel? Jul 28 21:51:06 DocScrutinizer, OMAP3430. Jul 28 21:51:15 magick777: daaamn! you revealed the truth Jul 28 21:51:15 slonopotamus, i dare bet that number is going down Jul 28 21:51:33 magick777: i run stock kernel Jul 28 21:51:46 seems like many android fanboi's leap from phone to phone every 6months Jul 28 21:51:47 or so Jul 28 21:52:04 magick777: everyone has n900 running @1GHz. they just don't want you to be happy with its speed :) (kidding, of course) Jul 28 21:52:15 but that's an extreme case... at any rate, I'm sure it changes the average. Iphone's are also released yearly? Jul 28 21:53:00 tripzero: every 2 years or so Jul 28 21:53:15 * cehteh thinks more ram would be more worth than more Ghz .. please post an manual how to bolt 1GB more ram to it :P Jul 28 21:53:23 Hey, does anyone know what system file or setting enables/disables the cursor? I installed a bluetooth HID application and it enabled my cursor, but it's still there after I removed the package. I don't really care, it even looks quite cool, but I was just wondering. Thanks. Jul 28 21:53:51 And I know, extras-devel, own risk, etc :) I don't care to reflash if I have to :P Jul 28 21:54:09 cehteh: undoable, i'm afraid. ram is in one box with cpu Jul 28 21:54:13 i'm still thinking about creating break-my-phone app Jul 28 21:54:19 that will wipe bootloader Jul 28 21:54:34 with all warnings Jul 28 21:54:38 slonopotamus: i know :P Jul 28 21:54:41 and see how many people would download it Jul 28 21:54:49 jacekowski: btw. do you know that messing with charger can make harm to your n900? :) Jul 28 21:55:02 destroying bootloader... Jul 28 21:55:07 bah Jul 28 21:55:08 jacekowski, hah, that'll be great fun Jul 28 21:55:13 ....moving on Jul 28 21:55:21 ~overclocking Jul 28 21:55:21 wouldn't that brick the phone permanently? :P Jul 28 21:55:38 it would Jul 28 21:55:49 well, nokia can flash it Jul 28 21:55:54 as in, no possibility to reflash Jul 28 21:55:54 FIQ: no. fixable (though not in home conditions) Jul 28 21:56:21 DocScrutinizer found some bit which would destroy the hardware .. well voltage control is done by the kernel as we know you can easily burn something Jul 28 21:56:21 of course they can Jul 28 21:56:25 but they cost. ;) Jul 28 21:56:38 the RGB led and the flash leds for sure Jul 28 21:57:14 cannot you put values like 5000 to /sys/whatever, for the led? Jul 28 21:57:17 s/put/echo/ Jul 28 21:57:29 i'm wondering how many people would install that app and ignore warnings Jul 28 21:57:56 jacekowsi, i think 2% of the visitors Jul 28 21:58:02 jacekowski: what that would prove? that there are idiots in the wild? it's a known fact. Jul 28 21:58:15 it would count them Jul 28 21:58:19 i for myself is wondering how it will stay in repo at all Jul 28 21:58:22 FIQ: what led? Jul 28 21:58:49 jacekowski: you can't count number of people that didn't agree to your warnings and who even didn't look at your app Jul 28 21:58:53 cehteh, the charger/poweron/fullcharge/etc Jul 28 21:58:57 the flash has some protection .. but it seems that the driver can drive biggier leds than installed there, dunno how well this is limited Jul 28 21:58:58 jacekowski: so no % Jul 28 21:59:00 those LEDs Jul 28 21:59:20 well, i could have warnings during installation Jul 28 21:59:54 FIQ: the rgb leds are by default driven with 2mA .. we guessed that they can take up to 10mA at least .. but the driver can fry them with 25mA Jul 28 22:00:13 sorry i dont want to try .. but i can tell you how it works if you want to :) Jul 28 22:00:20 * ShadowJK is pulling 1A out of a tekkeon mp1550 powered by 4 eneloops chargins his N900 :D Jul 28 22:00:30 perhaps fry Jul 28 22:00:45 (mains is too unsafe, wicked thunderstorm going on) Jul 28 22:00:49 no need to Jul 28 22:00:59 ShadowJK: how do you charge a phone with those? :) Jul 28 22:01:22 ShadowJK: I'm a photographer, and I always have bunch of loaded GP Recykos along.. :) Jul 28 22:01:45 ShadowJK: for how many charges do 4 eneloops last? .. barely one or more? Jul 28 22:02:11 8000mAh ... Jul 28 22:02:39 but 1,2V :) Jul 28 22:03:02 But one would be plenty enough Jul 28 22:03:16 cehteh: one and some with BL-5) Jul 28 22:03:39 polarfox: tekkeon mp1550, soldered a bit Jul 28 22:03:58 hello world Jul 28 22:04:02 * cehteh thinks about putting 6eneloops in series and charge with the power-adapter which is in the box still .. must try that someday Jul 28 22:04:56 Hey guys, I have lost the "Availability" option on my N900, and I cannot use instant messaging etc, or Skype etc etc. Kind of a wierd problem, and I do not know how this has happened. Any ideas how to get it back? Jul 28 22:04:57 2.0Ah * 1.2V = 4.4Wh, BL-5J = 4.8Wh.. ok, not quite a full charge then Jul 28 22:05:04 oops Jul 28 22:05:08 DocScrutinizer51: jacekowski: so :) any progress with jrbme? Jul 28 22:05:25 technomike: reboot? Jul 28 22:05:26 ShadowJK: and dont forget that charging over usb wastes some power Jul 28 22:05:34 well anyway, efficiency is overall maybe 60 percent Jul 28 22:05:35 tried kerio Jul 28 22:05:38 time to put together open initfs? Jul 28 22:05:41 its wierd Jul 28 22:06:12 ow my eardrums Jul 28 22:06:23 earache? Jul 28 22:06:37 thunderstorm Jul 28 22:06:45 oh :o Jul 28 22:06:53 ShadowJK: wanna hear the most annoying sound in the world? Jul 28 22:06:56 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Jul 28 22:07:20 heh. Phone is having issues maintaining signal, and the basestation is like 500m away.. Jul 28 22:07:37 technomike, maybe a silly question but it hasn't by any chance just got pushed down the status menu? took me a day or 2 to realise it scrolls when you add more than 8 items... Jul 28 22:07:40 You are too close :) Jul 28 22:07:52 If it's up high... Jul 28 22:08:03 normally it's full bars all the time :) Jul 28 22:08:06 on 2g Jul 28 22:08:23 Haha good thought magick777 but unfortunatly no :( Jul 28 22:08:54 technomike: all messaging accounts removed? Jul 28 22:09:00 Its really strange. It just disappeared randomly. It usually always shows as we all know. Jul 28 22:09:16 No I checked in the settings Jul 28 22:09:25 and they are all stil there Jul 28 22:10:15 technomike: tried rebooting? hildon-desktop crashes and doesn't fully restart sometimes (at least for me) Jul 28 22:11:06 * PolarFox is going storm hunting... I just wish someone would make spark client for Maemo :) Jul 28 22:11:35 Yep many times. This first happened to me the other day. Numerous reboots since. Jul 28 22:11:52 Its an odd thing to disappear Jul 28 22:12:29 technomike: dumb thing - are you sure it's not just hidden by other things? Jul 28 22:12:31 scroll down Jul 28 22:13:41 nope. not that. Jul 28 22:17:52 technomike, would reinstalling hildon-status-menu fix anything? Jul 28 22:20:05 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.42435 - ha Jul 28 22:21:06 java :) Jul 28 22:21:18 hey, it supports rotation Jul 28 22:21:26 it's better than the n900! Jul 28 22:21:47 pretty good knock off Jul 28 22:21:52 "IMEI: Unique" <- lol! Jul 28 22:22:12 2 sim slots :) Jul 28 22:22:26 wow Jul 28 22:22:32 2 x 2180mAh lithium ion rechargeable batteries (actual 1200mAh) Jul 28 22:22:34 huh Jul 28 22:22:43 lol Jul 28 22:22:59 no wifi Jul 28 22:23:01 lol Jul 28 22:23:30 kerio: manufacturer's marketing department said 2180, dealextreme is guessing 1200 based on physical size Jul 28 22:23:39 magick777 - probably. will try that Jul 28 22:23:39 oh, lol Jul 28 22:24:42 what an ugly os Jul 28 22:25:11 the hw specs look identical to iFone :) Jul 28 22:25:38 same phone-on-a-chip probably :P Jul 28 22:25:44 how can I reinstall hildon-status-menu ? Jul 28 22:25:53 apt-get install --reinstall? Jul 28 22:25:57 it is in use obviously Jul 28 22:26:05 will try Jul 28 22:26:05 that's okay Jul 28 22:26:12 it's in memory now Jul 28 22:26:17 ah Jul 28 22:26:26 (while it's running) Jul 28 22:26:37 it may barf if it tries to read something from flash though :P Jul 28 22:27:39 Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it? Jul 28 22:27:52 are you root? Jul 28 22:27:57 yeah Jul 28 22:28:25 application manager running? Jul 28 22:28:55 oh stupid me. yeah haha. never noticed Jul 28 22:29:31 there we go Jul 28 22:29:47 now reboot yeah? Jul 28 22:30:52 yup Jul 28 22:41:43 signal sender=:1.21 -> dest=(null destination) serial=44650 path=/com/nokia/phone/net; interface=Phone.Net; member=operator_name_change Jul 28 22:42:08 What do I tell dbus-monitor to tell me only about stuff with path=/com/nokia/phone/net ?. Jul 28 22:42:54 heh. there is a guy in another # that is shocked that trying ot get a cuda driver working on a hackintosh made it not work anymore :) Jul 28 22:43:32 anyways. i was working on a fedora box to build meego finally but parenting is preventing me from doing anything Jul 28 22:43:39 * Macer spikes the apple juice Jul 28 22:46:34 magick777 - no luck :( Jul 28 22:48:41 waittttttttt Jul 28 22:48:51 its back!!!! Jul 28 22:49:16 many many thanks magick777 Jul 28 22:49:26 cool :) glad it worked Jul 28 22:50:51 moin Jul 28 22:53:58 On above dbus question - dbus-monitor --system 'type=signal,interface=Phone.Net,member=signal_strength_change'|awk '/signal/{n=0}/byte/{n++;b=b" "$2;if(n==2)system("espeak \""b"\"")}' Jul 28 22:59:40 wow that N900/N97/wince look alike phone is incredible Jul 28 23:01:11 no-wifi Jul 28 23:01:46 no 3g either, I guess that's the price for dualsim Jul 28 23:02:12 which one? Jul 28 23:02:18 s/dualsim/dualsim and a battery that lasts more than 10 minutes/ Jul 28 23:02:37 ptl: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.42435 Jul 28 23:02:41 a 3g dualsim phone is easy if you don't care at all about battery duration Jul 28 23:02:43 :) Jul 28 23:03:28 for $100 I'm almost tempted just to buy it for the laugh factor Jul 28 23:03:32 SpeedEvil: ( What do I tell dbus-monitor ) tell me as I got such problem with dbus-scripting daemon Jul 28 23:03:59 assuming it actually works, someone put a lot of time into making that os Jul 28 23:04:41 it'll probably work Jul 28 23:04:43 you can get a dualsim adapter for the real n900 but only 1 sim can be active at any 1 time so it isn't true dual sim but you see what I mean anyway Jul 28 23:04:49 for the first boot Jul 28 23:04:56 anything after that is a bonus Jul 28 23:05:29 I bet it has like 1 hour of battery life, hence why it comes with 2 batts Jul 28 23:06:17 SpeedEvil: don't you think it's kinda errr interesting that dbus-scripting has no match field for path? Jul 28 23:06:27 all the fake china phones tend to come with 2 batteries to be honest. mainly because of the battery life on them as you said Jul 28 23:06:44 I bought a watch phone for a laugh Jul 28 23:07:34 and it has 2 batteries. Good quality though tbh... Jul 28 23:08:00 hahaaahahaahahahahahahahahaah Jul 28 23:08:07 the DX thingy has the 'ovi shop' link Jul 28 23:08:08 SpeedEvil: also did you get my wrath about dbus signaling paradigma wrt switch press-event/release-event? Jul 28 23:08:12 technomike: it worked? Jul 28 23:08:22 asj - works perfect Jul 28 23:08:35 no problems at all Jul 28 23:08:36 SpeedEvil: 'Ovi Shop' probably has good apps ;) Jul 28 23:09:10 WTF dualsim? that's a fake, that's not dualsim but alternative sim Jul 28 23:09:40 DocScrutinizer: lol, I think you misse the joke ;) Jul 28 23:09:51 nope, not really Jul 28 23:10:01 I just got no humor Jul 28 23:10:37 DocScrutinizer: you mean your N900 didn't boot up with the MS logo? ;) Jul 28 23:12:03 technomike: they come with 2 bateries as one doesn't suffice by detonation power for any serious usecase Jul 28 23:12:17 imagine someone doing that. it would scar the device forever. Jul 28 23:12:47 DocScrutinizer - haha spot on to be honest Jul 28 23:13:16 sigh Jul 28 23:13:29 well bat life was not THAT bad to be fair though but it wasn't good Jul 28 23:13:43 * DocScrutinizer hands lcuk a candybar Jul 28 23:13:55 :) thanks DocScrutinizer Jul 28 23:14:09 There are phones with real dualsim Jul 28 23:14:16 yep Jul 28 23:14:32 what does dualsim do Jul 28 23:14:38 beyond the obvious Jul 28 23:15:00 and they got dual chipset as they are idiots, or they really respect my copyright on timesharing one chipset for dual sim use Jul 28 23:15:49 dual sim *could* be done in software Jul 28 23:16:27 though you need *all* the sources of the modem FW, plus a real crack to implement Jul 28 23:20:44 DocScrutinizer: what if phone would get assigned two different frequencies? Jul 28 23:20:46 the catch of the whole thing is BTS isn't giving up on first failed try to establish a INVITE to ME Jul 28 23:21:13 lcuk: a real dual sim phone, has 2 radios and sits on 2 networks at the same time. Some places in the world have huge advantages on some networks vs others, India I understand is one of them. Say calling you on network A is X/min, and network B is 10X/min. I want to use network A. But say calling DocScrutinizer is cheaper on network B then I use them for DocScrutinizer. Or something like that. Happens here a bit, I want one network for voice Jul 28 23:21:13 and another for data. Jul 28 23:21:21 jacekowski: so what? it's really easy and lightning fast to switch frequencies Jul 28 23:21:59 but you will get different frequency and maybe same timeslot Jul 28 23:22:16 and with cdma it get's even trickier Jul 28 23:22:44 nope, you never get same timeslot (if you do, then just refuse and retry, to get a better one) Jul 28 23:23:22 you made it sound like some timeslots are worse Jul 28 23:23:27 asj, ok i can buy that, complete redundent system :) Jul 28 23:23:33 ta Jul 28 23:23:43 jacekowski: even IF you got collision on time domain, then so what? just listen to slot5 on freq A, then do same on freq B, then A again Jul 28 23:23:56 just will double the latency Jul 28 23:24:06 but latency on INVITE is irrelevant Jul 28 23:24:33 those dualsim phones probably just have a menu tha let's you pick which one to use Jul 28 23:24:41 hmm, there is same frontend for gsm and cdma Jul 28 23:24:49 ShadowJK: that's fake dualsim Jul 28 23:25:02 that's actually alternative sim Jul 28 23:25:23 you can get on every usual cellphone with a sim doubler Jul 28 23:25:29 I never had that dualsim Nokia, I wonder how that one worked :) Jul 28 23:25:42 switch off, switch on, other sim activated Jul 28 23:26:04 yeah, there is one YAMA in rapuyama Jul 28 23:26:22 that's alternative mono SIM, not real concurrent dual SIM Jul 28 23:26:33 how hard is it to copy sim? Jul 28 23:26:42 i mean, you could copy older sims easily Jul 28 23:26:52 but newer ones are apparently protected or something Jul 28 23:26:56 yes well, same people are selling 1000mAh batteries as 2200mAh ;p Jul 28 23:26:58 new ones you lose Jul 28 23:27:24 so how does that remote sim works? Jul 28 23:27:43 is phone then just acting as a bridge to sim card? Jul 28 23:27:50 I am on rdesktop from my N900. Is there anyway to tab for nicknames on here? Jul 28 23:28:10 technomike: bluetooth keyboard Jul 28 23:28:13 that's how i do it Jul 28 23:28:40 Ah yeah good idea Jul 28 23:28:46 but you can listen to D band SIM a for ine second, then switch to E band SIM b for next second. If a call comes in it will get signalled for at least 5 seconds, so you won't lose it. Then just stay on that band, and other band you are "just driving a tunnel" Jul 28 23:30:14 jacekowski: remote sim? check AT+CSIM command Jul 28 23:31:19 jacekowski: let's you talk to the SIM from AP like usually the modem itself is talking to the SIM Jul 28 23:31:24 lets* Jul 28 23:32:28 so there is no easy way to just have copy of a sim and no physical sim in phone Jul 28 23:32:41 jacekowski: so yes, basically phone is acting as a bridge, though I guess OTA is some VPN alike secure tunnel Jul 28 23:33:03 nope, there is no easy way Jul 28 23:33:18 (except *I* got a sim of 1999 :-P) Jul 28 23:33:33 so what do you need from sim? Jul 28 23:33:48 some PKI Jul 28 23:33:54 i mean that a/51 cipher was broken Jul 28 23:33:54 or dinno what Jul 28 23:34:19 A5/1 is a crypt for OTA audio data Jul 28 23:34:28 maximum boring Jul 28 23:34:48 but isn't that using same encryption for everything? Jul 28 23:35:28 the authentication is sending a challenge to the SIM, and reading out a response Jul 28 23:35:47 hmm, how long is the challenge? Jul 28 23:35:53 dunno Jul 28 23:35:54 and how long is the response? Jul 28 23:36:29 somewhere in the ~500MB of GSM docs you'll find precise specs Jul 28 23:36:32 that was something designed 20 years ago Jul 28 23:36:59 yes Jul 28 23:37:15 but still, what you gonna do to fuck it? Jul 28 23:37:50 well, if i could get all possible responses Jul 28 23:38:09 the algo is based on a PKI that's long enough so you can't deduce from a dozen challenge/response pairs Jul 28 23:38:34 but challenge and response has lenght limits Jul 28 23:38:47 and the challenge is long enough the SIM won't survive reading out all possible responses Jul 28 23:39:21 but if i can read a lot of them Jul 28 23:39:27 i can bruteforce a key Jul 28 23:39:29 the SIM is sloooow you know? Jul 28 23:39:51 well, technology is little bit better Jul 28 23:39:55 each one has an individula key Jul 28 23:39:58 new ones are a bit faster :) Jul 28 23:39:58 so sim can be OCed little bit Jul 28 23:40:23 and hopefully i could extract a key in reasonable time Jul 28 23:40:28 * ShadowJK remembers his 1999 one that needed 5 secs Jul 28 23:40:59 (to check PIN) Jul 28 23:41:37 you can not, jacekowski Jul 28 23:42:18 on old SIM they had attack vectors based on dunno power consumption indicating what the algo actually does etc Jul 28 23:42:37 on new ones it common sense you can't copy anymore Jul 28 23:46:39 jacekowski: sorry, tried to get you some links, but they drowned in my ocean of bookmarks during the last years Jul 28 23:47:16 maybe google for simdoubler or similar keywords Jul 28 23:49:31 http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=sim+cloning&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= Jul 28 23:52:50 Welche Karten können geclont werden? Alle mit dem ersten GSM Algorythmus Comp128v1. Als Faustregel kann man sagen, dass alle vor Juni 2002 ausgegebenen Karten diesen Algo haben müssten. Um das Prüfen zu können müsst Ihr aber versuchen die Keys mit einem Programmer auslesen. Neuere Karten mit den Algos Comp128V2 & V3 können nicht geklont werden, Jul 28 23:53:02 use google translate Jul 28 23:54:54 http://www.gsmfreeboard.com/showthread.php?t=139976 Jul 28 23:58:12 a question if I may - at first glance, would you be able to use this: http://github.com/lcuk/liqcalc/raw/master/liqcalc.screenshot.png Jul 28 23:58:40 would you know how it should work, or would you need a manual? Jul 29 00:00:34 manual would be nice Jul 29 00:00:35 I was about to type "fsck manual" but then I noticed "SOLAR CELL" WTF?! Jul 29 00:00:52 lol ;) Jul 29 00:00:59 * luke-jr grumbles at TeX Jul 29 00:01:13 what happens on your desktop calculator when you cover and press on the solar cell? Jul 29 00:01:31 nothing Jul 29 00:01:50 As I added an AAA cell under it. Jul 29 00:01:51 can I click that? will it blend? Jul 29 00:01:57 lol DocScrutinizer Jul 29 00:02:03 you cover it, the screen dims :P Jul 29 00:02:18 oooh sheeet Jul 29 00:03:33 i just pushed the project upto github anyway, i am off to bed Jul 29 00:03:36 \o gnite Jul 29 00:03:45 nite lcuk Jul 29 00:04:12 dream of solar tower power plants! Jul 29 00:04:51 and green nanites livin under your skin Jul 29 00:06:47 * DocScrutinizer honestly considered to get a job as a facility manager in a huge skyscraper, just to adjust *all* the copper coated windows in such a way they will burn down they mayor's buero on jun .23 @ 14:35 Jul 29 00:09:00 fsck my luck and I may go to hell if that day there are cloufy skies ;-P Jul 29 00:10:38 how long does it take to repair bricked phone Jul 29 00:10:42 without bootloader Jul 29 00:10:50 if i send it back to nokia or wherever Jul 29 00:11:10 just one stroke with sledgehammer, so possibly 0.2s Jul 29 00:12:29 jacekowski: you mean how long does it take to coldflash a borked NOLO? Jul 29 00:12:57 yeah Jul 29 00:13:04 including shipping times Jul 29 00:13:19 so if i would break my phone today Jul 29 00:13:23 when i would have it back Jul 29 00:13:24 depends on competence of your local nokia care center. If they got all the equipment, then one day. If not hen >5 days, possibley 30 Jul 29 00:14:56 Sigh. Jul 29 00:15:09 I'm trying to optimise n900 position for video streaming. Jul 29 00:15:23 While my DSL is doing its nightly spaz. Jul 29 00:15:36 like: hang it on a few strings, while lying in bed? Jul 29 00:15:39 I spend ages trying to wiggle it this way and that to optimise. Jul 29 00:16:00 Then I yawn, while holding the phone, stretching arms out, and I notice it's hit 95% Jul 29 00:16:46 you mean you have wifi reception problems? Jul 29 00:16:50 SpeedEvil: rcane tales? Jul 29 00:17:01 arcane* Jul 29 00:17:12 no - 3g Jul 29 00:17:25 duh Jul 29 00:18:26 SpeedEvil: considered a passive retransmission system, with a 24 elem yago on the roof feeding a lambda/4 mounted to the ceiling of your room Jul 29 00:18:29 ? Jul 29 00:18:45 yagi* Jul 29 00:19:12 I need to rig back up my 3G dongle on a stick. Jul 29 00:19:17 a 6m stick Jul 29 00:20:25 passive retransmission works great. really worth considering it Jul 29 00:20:47 yeah Jul 29 00:21:02 But then I need to work out where the celltower is. Jul 29 00:21:19 duh that should be friggin easy Jul 29 00:22:26 place cellphone next to lamba/4 end of cable which you tempoarily move up to the roof, then rotate yagi until bars on cellphone max out Jul 29 00:22:38 yeah Jul 29 00:22:50 http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/ Jul 29 00:22:54 for the lulz Jul 29 00:23:04 enter 'ky7 6la' into the postcode Jul 29 00:23:31 It's a web 0.2 mast locator Jul 29 00:24:35 To the extent the above may actually be faster Jul 29 00:26:40 hmm, not even TETRA in this area, too bad Jul 29 00:27:42 You can't do the -trivially obvious - thing of zoom out to the typical range of a GSM phone, and then see which masts are in the area Jul 29 00:27:51 as masts are not visible at the lowest zoom Jul 29 00:28:02 and base details are only visible at the highest zoom Jul 29 00:28:50 no such 'nice' thing for over here on the continent Jul 29 00:29:09 so I closed it. Sorry Jul 29 00:29:48 Deeply insane. Jul 29 00:30:28 I suspect the brief was 'make it as unfriendly as possible, while complying with the strict requirements of accessibility' Jul 29 00:30:35 what? the borked 0.2 web app for your area, the fact it's not existing here, or me? Jul 29 00:31:00 The pessimisation of a possible useful service to turn it into a non-useful one. Jul 29 00:32:30 closely resembling the guidelines in http://2600hertz.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/meego-destroy-in-6-steps/ Jul 29 00:33:08 all the same all over the industry. They are really good on adapting it Jul 29 00:34:06 Also - that crashed ff Jul 29 00:34:19 wow, that's special Jul 29 00:38:25 * DocScrutinizer adds a paragraph to 6 rules: "keep your config of webservices so it will be easy for crashers to inject maicious code to the repositories and malware jpeg/javascript/whatever bits to your websites. Then apologize, clean the site, and wait for new malware and rogue code to show up" Jul 29 00:38:32 The COMPANY LIASON must be chosen carefully. The optimal choice is somebody reclusive Jul 29 00:38:47 This is accomplished really well if the person doesn't actually speak english. Jul 29 00:49:38 heh Jul 29 00:50:36 I particularly adore the part: ""They’ll mess up your marketing schemes by, for example, taking the software into countries where you have no presence and no plans. They’ll interfere with product roadmaps with unexpected innovation, adding features which you had not planned for the next few years – or, worse, features which were planned for a proprietary version."" Jul 29 00:54:05 keep cellmo API as closed as possible to effectively encounter these Jul 29 00:56:20 do not support weird shit like reading out list of neighbour cells or TA or any other parameters not useful for basic phone operation, as those will interfere with your plans to implement and sell proprietary location aware services Jul 29 00:59:37 honestly, as long as I can do funky things with my 6210(first generation) dumbphone that are impossible on N900, I feel like something's really wrong about N900 support from Nokia Jul 29 01:00:55 good morning Jul 29 01:01:09 * DocScrutinizer moos @ TermanaN900 Jul 29 01:01:32 * DocScrutinizer wonders about TermanaN900's TZ Jul 29 01:01:42 UGT? Jul 29 01:02:24 DocScrutinizer, ACST (+9:30) Jul 29 01:03:39 yay Jul 29 01:04:00 svn rtmpdump Jul 29 01:04:02 argh Jul 29 01:04:17 far far away Jul 29 01:04:18 EWIN Jul 29 01:05:34 is it possible & if its how to install Nitdroid 2.2 to N900 without an external card? (think of Easy Debian. on built-in memory) Jul 29 01:07:16 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Jul 29 01:08:32 * ptl belches Jul 29 01:08:36 couldn't think of anything that bothers me less Jul 29 01:40:24 X-Fade: I wonder how >>Comments: You must be logged in to make comments.<< matches the anonymous comment on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/starhash-enabler/0.2/ Jul 29 01:41:34 X-Fade: also the anonymous comment renders really unusable for me, by cutting away first line Jul 29 01:44:16 * peb_ is gone. Gone since Tue Jul 27 16:30:00 2010 Jul 29 01:44:43 * SpeedEvil wonders if DocScrutinizer wil carry out his threat against peb Jul 29 01:44:45 X-Fade: (hint) I sent this comment while maybe not noticing timeout or IP change has invalidated my login to the page. So suspicion is you *can* send anonymous comments if only you use correctly formatted HTTP-PUT or whatever it uses. Feels like a microscopic security issue, opening up an exploitation vector Jul 29 01:45:27 threat? I'm starting to feel angry about that shit, but don't remember a thread of mine Jul 29 01:48:08 SpeedEvil: what do you suggest? autokick on "is gone. Gone since"? Or ban? or what Jul 29 01:48:10 Ooops Jul 29 01:48:15 crashanddie: peb_: on next iteration, you will be quieted until you deactivate it Jul 29 01:48:20 wasn't you Jul 29 01:48:41 nevertheless I agree on that Jul 29 01:50:27 what did peb_ do? Jul 29 01:50:41 [2010-07-29 03:44:16] * peb_ is gone. Gone since Tue Jul 27 16:30:00 2010 Jul 29 01:50:55 As his only content for the past 10 day Jul 29 01:50:55 s Jul 29 01:50:58 today seems he's a minute early Jul 29 01:51:08 oh, away message Jul 29 01:51:32 I'd quiet him after a warning tbh Jul 29 01:51:35 not before :) Jul 29 01:51:39 but that's just me Jul 29 01:52:01 MohammadAG51: [2010-07-29 03:48:15] crashanddie: peb_: on next iteration, you will be quieted until you deactivate it Jul 29 01:52:37 oh, didn't know he quoted crashanddie Jul 29 01:54:29 * DocScrutinizer just wonders whether to quiet peb as well Jul 29 01:57:09 probably neither peb nor peb_ will even notice, and the +q just fills up the chan administration lists Jul 29 01:58:08 or wait, isn't changing nick blocked when you are set +q ? Jul 29 01:58:50 I think only when you use +b Jul 29 01:58:58 mhm Jul 29 02:00:16 should I kick peb, just to attract his attention? Jul 29 02:01:47 maybe private message him Jul 29 02:02:07 hmm, actually a better more PC version Jul 29 02:05:45 we'll see. In 23:40 hours at most **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 29 02:59:57 2010