**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 04 02:59:57 2010
Aug 04 04:00:19 <pronto> http://pronto185.com/n900/camera/orig/Candle.08_03_2010.jpg i rather like the n900's camera :>
Aug 04 04:02:43 <asj> pronto: I dunno, loss of dynamic range in the flame and colour balance is wrong, unless you're burning a nice oxy-acetylene mixture there
Aug 04 04:02:52 <pronto> o_o
Aug 04 04:03:04 <pronto> yeah sure man
Aug 04 04:03:17 <asj> :)
Aug 04 04:03:43 <pronto> yeah flame is acutatly orangey
Aug 04 04:03:59 <pronto> so you acuatatly remember chem class?
Aug 04 04:03:59 <pronto> wow
Aug 04 04:04:59 <asj> pronto: nah, I just weld with an oxy-acetylene torch ever now and then and you can also use it for a very bright and very white light source if you have the mix off a bit
Aug 04 04:05:20 <pronto> ooh
Aug 04 04:05:21 <asj> miner lamps were also the same thing, using pellets of something+water
Aug 04 04:06:11 <DocScrutinizer> ummm, scratchbox exit left all bindmounts intact, but unmounted my external USB drive unrelated??
Aug 04 04:06:45 <DocScrutinizer> or was this just incidental?
Aug 04 04:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> something=carbide
Aug 04 04:08:16 <asj> DocScrutinizer: lol, yes and when I read that I instantly thought of the symbian eclipse editor
Aug 04 04:11:24 <mintux> when I plug usb cable for use mass storage it said device is busy. also I try sudo umount /home/user/MyDocs it said device or resource is busy
Aug 04 04:11:45 <mintux> how can I find out what app or files made it busy ?
Aug 04 04:13:49 <Toa> mintux: try lsof
Aug 04 04:14:44 <Toa> mintux: For example, if it was a CD-ROM that was busy, you could use "lsof |grep /dev/cdrom
Aug 04 04:14:44 <Toa> " in the terminal
Aug 04 04:15:01 <mintux> hmm
Aug 04 04:15:12 <mintux> so I should use lsof | grep home  ?
Aug 04 04:17:40 <Toa> You're trying to unmount /home from another computer or from a tablet?
Aug 04 04:18:39 <mintux> from tablet
Aug 04 04:19:00 <mintux> but now I want connect to it and get output of lsof
Aug 04 04:19:59 <Toa> Oh, so you want to connect to the tablet from the computer but it's giving you a "can't mount, device busy" error?
Aug 04 04:20:10 <Toa> or something like that?
Aug 04 04:20:55 <mintux> no first I didn't any connect to device and from terminal I would like to umount home/user/MyDocs abd I got that error
Aug 04 04:21:07 <mintux> but now I want to pastbin losof output
Aug 04 04:22:10 <Toa> Go ahead and put it on http://ubuntu.pastebin.com.
Aug 04 04:23:20 <Toa> I'm not near my tablet right now, but "lsof | grep ~/" sounds right.
Aug 04 04:25:53 <mintux> ok
Aug 04 04:26:07 <Toa> The simplest solution would just be to reboot your tablet with the cable connected.  Then it will mount everything it can...but since you want to mount /MyDocs it might be a little more complicated.
Aug 04 04:26:29 <mintux> http://codepad.org/h52hwuDg
Aug 04 04:26:30 <Toa> Which tablet do you have?
Aug 04 04:26:34 <mintux> http://codepad.org/ICum8YlW
Aug 04 04:26:40 <mintux> yes I know
Aug 04 04:26:53 <Toa> Ah, 900.
Aug 04 04:26:56 <mintux> but every time I want to use cable I have to reboot
Aug 04 04:27:14 <Toa> Yeah, there's better ways.
Aug 04 04:27:29 <mintux> "windows" should reboot not linux
Aug 04 04:27:38 <mintux> so I would like to know what's wrong
Aug 04 04:28:45 <Toa> Yes, that's right. I don't know how much they changed on the n900.  I just have a N810.
Aug 04 04:29:28 <Toa> It doesn't look like there is anything in MyDocs that is in use.
Aug 04 04:30:16 <mintux> yeas
Aug 04 04:30:29 <mintux> and its wonderful for me
Aug 04 04:31:31 <caedus90> Hey. Anyone know where I can get the best deal on a new N900?
Aug 04 04:31:31 <Toa> I'm envious.  Another option might be to ssh into the tablet, if you're comfortable doing that, or just use bluetooth for a few files.  Alternatively, you could set up a share using wifi.
Aug 04 04:32:24 <mintux> I mount some drive to that
Aug 04 04:32:31 <mintux> but I unmounts all
Aug 04 04:32:42 <mintux> when I mounts some directory it happened .
Aug 04 04:32:47 <CasTTeLLo> i need help with frozen bubles 2 installation...
Aug 04 04:32:51 <mintux> but I unmounts all
Aug 04 04:32:55 <CasTTeLLo> anyone??
Aug 04 04:33:15 <CasTTeLLo> apt-get install perl-modules Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Package perl-modules is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source However the following packages replace it: perl-base perl E: Package perl-modules has no installation candidate
Aug 04 04:33:32 <CasTTeLLo> i'm on PR1.2
Aug 04 04:35:03 <Toa> mintux: You're getting a little beyond me, but I believe you could set up a windows (samba) share on the N900, then map the network share to a drive letter.  Or do you not have wifi on the machine you want to connect to?
Aug 04 04:36:14 <mintux> Toa: I mount the directory use : mount --bind  but when I unmount the directories doesn't un mount yet . I use umount for it it's wrong ?
Aug 04 04:37:40 <mintux> it said invalid argument
Aug 04 04:37:47 <mintux> when I want to unmount
Aug 04 04:38:33 <Toa> mintux: What is the syntax you're using for the umount command?
Aug 04 04:39:01 <mintux> sudo umount /home/user/MyDocs/projects
Aug 04 04:39:10 <mintux> it siad invalid argument
Aug 04 04:39:19 <Toa> CasTTeLLo: I don't have experience with that, but it looks like you're missing a package.
Aug 04 04:39:50 <CasTTeLLo> er..
Aug 04 04:39:53 <CasTTeLLo> ermmm
Aug 04 04:40:13 <CasTTeLLo> how to enable ssu repo??
Aug 04 04:40:13 <Toa> CasTTeLLo: Do you have the perl-base and perl packages?
Aug 04 04:40:39 <CasTTeLLo> i'm only got problem with perl-modules
Aug 04 04:41:07 <CasTTeLLo> perl base is the newest one
Aug 04 04:41:16 <Toa> CasTTeLLo: You should be able to enable or add any repositories with the application manager.  N900, right?
Aug 04 04:41:51 <CasTTeLLo> yeah but i don know the setting
Aug 04 04:42:04 <Toa> mintux: The mount point on the tablet is /home/user/MyDocs/projects?
Aug 04 04:44:14 <CasTTeLLo> wat is catalogue name, web add, distr, and components for ssu??
Aug 04 04:44:27 <Toa> mintux: Because you'll want to umount the path on the host machine.
Aug 04 04:45:58 <Toa> CasTTeLLo: SSU being the seamless software update?
Aug 04 04:46:25 <CasTTeLLo> wat does it mean??? really have no idea??
Aug 04 04:47:36 <mintux> Toa: it's my codes http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/RtTEthnE
Aug 04 04:49:57 <Toa> CasTTeLLo: Ah, SSU, if it means seamless software upgrade just means the updates that Nokia gives you.  You should have that repository already enabled, unless something happened.
Aug 04 04:52:32 <Toa> mintux: Just to clarify, are you mounting the MyDocs directories onto another tabet?
Aug 04 04:55:06 <mintux>  Toa: no
Aug 04 04:55:50 <mintux> you see what directory I mounted
Aug 04 04:57:15 <Toa> mintux: Yes, I do.
Aug 04 04:57:43 <mintux> maybe it's refer to --bind option
Aug 04 04:58:19 <mintux> I use umount always and work and not need any argument but here it's different
Aug 04 04:59:16 <CasTTeLLo> dc
Aug 04 05:01:21 <Toa> Yeah, I'm not familiar with the --bind option, but I'll look at it.  Sorry I can't be more help, it's late here and I'm exhausted.  But I'll try to get this working for you.
Aug 04 05:01:46 <mintux> thanks
Aug 04 05:10:48 <Toa> mintux: I looked at the manpage but it didn't tell me anything.  I don't think this is a maemo-specific issue, though.  Do you know what version of bash you're running?
Aug 04 05:11:22 <mintux> BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) multi-call binary
Aug 04 05:12:46 <CasTTeLLo> ..
Aug 04 05:13:10 <Toa> Yes, but I see you run bash in your pastebin.
Aug 04 05:15:58 <mintux> Toa: I tried  sudo umount -f /home/user/MyDocs and it works
Aug 04 05:17:28 <CasTTeLLo> Toa : Good Helper....thumbs up!!
Aug 04 05:18:04 <Toa> mintux: That's great.  I'm not sure it will work, but you might want to try -l instead.  It's less abrupt.
Aug 04 05:19:12 <Toa> As you might know, -f will rip it out of whatever programs' hands are using it at the time with no chance to sync what they want to the filesystem.
Aug 04 05:20:47 <luke-jr> why does BusyBox have 'legal' in there?
Aug 04 05:20:50 <luke-jr> is there an illegal version?
Aug 04 05:21:13 <mintux> hmm
Aug 04 05:21:14 <mintux> ok
Aug 04 05:21:15 <mintux> thanks
Aug 04 05:21:36 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: check changelog for why?
Aug 04 05:21:44 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: no
Aug 04 05:22:10 <Toa> mintux: I know I haven't been that much help.  It looks like much more experienced minds are awake in the channel now.  You may want to ask them.
Aug 04 05:22:10 <Stskeeps> well that's one way
Aug 04 05:22:35 <mintux> hmm ok
Aug 04 05:37:48 <Macer> wtf
Aug 04 05:37:53 <Macer> the rss widget
Aug 04 05:38:02 <Macer> wont display my wp rss feed
Aug 04 05:38:08 <Macer> but the rss app does
Aug 04 05:38:11 <Macer> :(
Aug 04 05:38:16 <Macer> broken widget?
Aug 04 05:41:33 <microlith> wow, querty12 goes out in flames of immaturity and assholery
Aug 04 05:43:25 <Stskeeps> url?
Aug 04 05:44:57 <microlith> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59700
Aug 04 05:47:55 <Stskeeps> i'm not entirely disagreeing with his thoughts though
Aug 04 05:48:15 <andre__> He has some points, but the words he chose made it hard to read it all.
Aug 04 05:49:34 <Stskeeps> so it goes - i can understand his frustration and frustration exhibits in different ways in different people
Aug 04 05:50:14 <frals> can someone pastebin the content of the debfile? ;o
Aug 04 05:50:15 <andre__> yupp. he left, while I slowly only become poisonous in my behavior ;-)
Aug 04 05:50:34 <frals> nvm, found it on page2 of th thread
Aug 04 05:51:23 <Stskeeps> either way, qwerty12 has done a shitload of work for the community but has gotten little left, which is a problem we do have to deal with in general as well
Aug 04 06:00:38 <Macer> wow
Aug 04 06:00:44 <Macer> no more qwerty
Aug 04 06:00:50 <Macer> open source fail
Aug 04 06:01:01 <Macer> "open source" haha
Aug 04 06:03:18 <D-Iivil_Work> Good morning!
Aug 04 06:03:46 <Macer> yah. nokia has failed :) time for me to go back to android
Aug 04 06:04:06 <D-Iivil_Work> Macer, what has it done this time?
Aug 04 06:04:54 <ljp>  best thing about open source, is that you can fix it
Aug 04 06:05:06 <mece> ljp what needs fixin?
Aug 04 06:05:22 <ljp> I dunno.. Macer was saying Nokia had failed
Aug 04 06:05:35 <mece> Failed where?
Aug 04 06:05:51 <ieatlint> it's a misnomer that open source simply means you can fix it
Aug 04 06:05:52 <ljp> good question
Aug 04 06:06:29 <mece> meh, nok is a company. They do what they want. I don't care about the politics.
Aug 04 06:06:39 <ieatlint> for instance, if you identify a problem in maemo, and come up with an awesome and effective solution, and try to push it upstream, you'll be lucky to get an acknowledgement
Aug 04 06:06:46 <mece> I also don't expect any charity from them.
Aug 04 06:06:58 <ieatlint> best case scenario is they release one more bugfix update for maemo..
Aug 04 06:07:08 <Macer> im sorry but when you lose guys like qwerty...
Aug 04 06:07:09 <mece> ieatlint, but you can fix it yourself...
Aug 04 06:07:13 <Macer> :)
Aug 04 06:07:14 <mece> haha yeah
Aug 04 06:07:23 <mece> entertaining rant :)
Aug 04 06:07:29 <Macer> it shows that is isnt worth the effort to stick around
Aug 04 06:07:43 <Macer> and go with something that is working
Aug 04 06:07:46 <Macer> like android
Aug 04 06:07:48 <Macer> heh
Aug 04 06:07:50 <mece> well, LOL
Aug 04 06:07:54 <mece> wjhy the hell?
Aug 04 06:08:14 <mece> there are no alternatives afaik
Aug 04 06:08:29 <Macer> might as well consider my n900 dead phone walking
Aug 04 06:08:47 <mece> Macer, why? have you dropped it?
Aug 04 06:09:02 <Macer> no. but i should have
Aug 04 06:09:10 <mece> Macer, why?
Aug 04 06:09:17 <mece> Macer, what's wrong with it?
Aug 04 06:09:40 <ieatlint> meh, there are only two apps i wish i had on the n900 and don't... google maps (which mappero makes a valiant but ultimately failing attempt at matching), and a very proprietary one that is in android and ipohone
Aug 04 06:10:05 <mece> ieatlint, which proprietary one is that?
Aug 04 06:10:20 <ieatlint> square
Aug 04 06:10:32 <Macer> benedict arnold hahahaha
Aug 04 06:10:37 <mece> ieatlint, which is?
Aug 04 06:10:44 <ieatlint> mobile payment processing app
Aug 04 06:10:50 <mece> ieatlint, nice.
Aug 04 06:12:34 <ieatlint> and i love that i can write in any language i want to for the n900
Aug 04 06:13:25 <ieatlint> instead of java, and without trying to work in the bizarre apple environment that just randomly kicks you in the balls
Aug 04 06:13:52 <mece> ieatlint, :) as I said, there are no alternatives.
Aug 04 06:15:06 <Macer> wtf is a super tester? hahaha
Aug 04 06:15:08 <Corsac> is square the little cube you plug into the mike minijack?
Aug 04 06:15:17 <mece> Macer, just people who test a lot.
Aug 04 06:15:26 <mece> Macer, a way to speed up the qa
Aug 04 06:15:31 <Macer> uhm
Aug 04 06:15:39 <Macer> ok :)
Aug 04 06:15:48 <mece> Macer, reading the qwerty rant I see :)
Aug 04 06:15:55 <Macer> yah
Aug 04 06:15:55 <mece> Macer, can you give me the url?
Aug 04 06:16:10 <Macer> http://pastebin.com/GAxYw8yN
Aug 04 06:16:23 <Macer> wow he really goes off on a tangent
Aug 04 06:16:33 <Macer> but he kind of has a right to
Aug 04 06:17:09 <Macer> the system created by nokia in the guise of "open" has totally failed
Aug 04 06:17:15 <ieatlint> Corsac: yes
Aug 04 06:17:44 <Macer> and he hung in there for a while before finally realizing how much of his life he wasted in a fruitless community
Aug 04 06:18:15 <Corsac> it doesn't look like the most secure solution anyway
Aug 04 06:18:49 <Macer> nokia doesnt know how to stick with something and follow through. they simply keep jumping on the bandwagon of what is hip
Aug 04 06:19:06 <Macer> always chasing the trend instead of being the trendsetter
Aug 04 06:19:10 <ljp> ya, thats why they still use symbian
Aug 04 06:19:22 <ljp> cause its trendy
Aug 04 06:19:59 <ieatlint> Corsac: meh... as secure as you handing your card to a guy making minimum wage at the local store
Aug 04 06:20:03 <mece> Macer, meh, qwerty might be right, but it's not anything I care about. I don't give a shit about the politics, and the stuff I need is open.
Aug 04 06:20:12 <Corsac> ieatlint: I don't do that anyway :)
Aug 04 06:20:43 <ieatlint> well, most of us live in a world of convenience and fraud protection :)
Aug 04 06:21:09 <Macer> mece: if you say so. ;) im sorry but i have to agree with him
Aug 04 06:21:22 <Macer> the politics ruined it and nokia mismanaged it
Aug 04 06:21:25 <Macer> a shame really
Aug 04 06:21:58 <mece> Macer, well, as I said I agree, but it's not something that bothers me or that I care about, since there are no alternatives.
Aug 04 06:22:22 <Macer> ;) good luck
Aug 04 06:22:26 <ljp> Macer: what texactly is your problem?
Aug 04 06:22:33 <Macer> im getting off at the next stop
Aug 04 06:23:30 <Macer> later everybody. this device is fail. im going to keep it around because meego looks promising
Aug 04 06:23:45 <ljp> heh
Aug 04 06:24:02 <CasTTeLLo> ..
Aug 04 06:24:19 <ieatlint> geeks have an impressive amount of drama considering the lack of women
Aug 04 06:24:22 <Corsac> ieatlint: I live there too, I just don't give my card to random people so they carbon-copy it
Aug 04 06:25:58 <mece> ieatlint, LOL
Aug 04 06:26:03 <Corsac> (but I live in a part of the world where they invented smartcards)
Aug 04 06:27:01 <maemoboi> psst.... maemo fan bois, read this... a few words from a developer: http://pastebin.com/GAxYw8yN
Aug 04 06:27:23 <ieatlint> where i come from, we call that an emoquit
Aug 04 06:27:30 <ieatlint> and i've seen it done much better
Aug 04 06:28:12 <mece> ieatlint, you mean Macer?
Aug 04 06:28:17 <maemoboi> what cha think of developers abandoning the ship ?
Aug 04 06:28:38 <mece> maemoboi, developer. Well, it's sad, but the rant was fun.
Aug 04 06:28:40 <ieatlint> no, that rant... macer's was just a depressingly anti-climactic emoquit, if at all
Aug 04 06:29:04 <maemoboi> kinda sad
Aug 04 06:29:23 <maemoboi> sad that maemo is dead
Aug 04 06:29:25 <mece> ieatlint, I think it was a quite nice rant. The best thing was the app though. A proper fuck you to all of us. Not to nokia though, which is kinda sad.
Aug 04 06:29:48 <mece> maemoboi, meh. Mine seem to work just fine.
Aug 04 06:29:50 <ieatlint> oh yeah, i've seen enough fanbois in here
Aug 04 06:29:58 <ieatlint> he definitely has some good points
Aug 04 06:30:25 <ieatlint> but i generally am repulsed by the "i'm quitting ____ FOREVER.  I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOU, but i'm going to spend the next 10 paragraphs telling you WHY"
Aug 04 06:31:35 <maemoboi> he has some excellent points...the council is a joke
Aug 04 06:33:11 <maemoboi> R.I.P maemo.....lolz
Aug 04 06:34:14 <mece> The funny thing about the rant is that he doesn't actually mention the reason why he got pissed in the first place.
Aug 04 06:35:17 <maemoboi> n900 being abandoned is one of the reasons
Aug 04 06:35:49 <maemoboi> and i agree...fuck the "community effort" bullshit fanbois are yapping about
Aug 04 06:39:06 <mece> maemoboi, well he got pissed because gtk was abandoned. Not maemo.
Aug 04 06:39:23 <mece> afaict.
Aug 04 06:40:46 <Stskeeps> mece: nah, that's not it
Aug 04 06:41:10 <mece> Stskeeps, no? He was pretty loud about how he hated qt iirc
Aug 04 06:42:57 <maemoboi> incoming call glitch on my n900 is driving me fucking bonkers...yet nokia WONTFIX....fucking joke
Aug 04 06:43:32 <mece> maemoboi, that was already fixed by community
Aug 04 06:44:40 <maemoboi> mece: thats the problem... the goddamn community has to fix everything
Aug 04 06:48:13 <mece> maemoboi, so you complain about something that the community has fixed, or actually nokia fixed, and community backported, because the community helped. That's just low man.
Aug 04 06:52:05 <mece> maemoboi, I agree that it's a shitty deal for those that expected years of support for this (very niche) device, but I really like the fact that it is possible to fix stuff without having to wait for a fix that might never come.
Aug 04 06:52:58 <mece> anyway, here's a howto on the fix: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=769967&postcount=129
Aug 04 06:53:20 <maemoboi> mece: thanks
Aug 04 06:53:21 <mece> browse the thread and click some thanks for MohammadAG if you think it's usable.
Aug 04 06:55:19 <mece> maemoboi, sorry I snapped, didn't mean to be a dick. I understand the frustration people have about the "abandonement"
Aug 04 06:55:57 <maemoboi> it's ok...i was too strong also
Aug 04 06:56:04 <maemoboi> thanks anyways
Aug 04 06:58:17 <pier_> Hello, I'm pier, comming fm the Maemo wiki web page
Aug 04 06:59:31 <pier_> zzZZZZZZ are you online ?
Aug 04 06:59:51 <toggles_w> hmm, qt vs gtk...
Aug 04 07:00:03 <toggles_w> it's kind of scary as a dev
Aug 04 07:00:28 <timeless> with(theater) if (crowded) fire()
Aug 04 07:00:58 <timeless> if you're a dev and can't transition between them, you're not much of a dev :(
Aug 04 07:01:14 <timeless> qt/gtk is scary for managers
Aug 04 07:01:24 <timeless> because they look at their large codebases and say "this will take too long to migrate"
Aug 04 07:01:33 <pier_> Hi People, I'm looking for where to start to update to the latest stable OS. I cannot connec to a PC since I'm runninx Linux on my laptop. Tx for any help
Aug 04 07:01:40 <timeless> for a dev, it's just a matter of looking things up :)
Aug 04 07:02:22 <toggles_w> for an little dev the licensing is a worry..
Aug 04 07:02:31 <Stskeeps> what licensing?
Aug 04 07:02:32 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 04 07:02:39 <timeless> "free to use"
Aug 04 07:02:47 <timeless> "no support guarantees"
Aug 04 07:02:55 * timeless doesn't see how that's interesting
Aug 04 07:03:09 <timeless> "changing the code itself requires a lawyer"
Aug 04 07:03:18 <timeless> ok, that last one could be a problem.
Aug 04 07:03:21 <timeless> solution? don't change the code!
Aug 04 07:03:25 <timeless> -- no problem.
Aug 04 07:03:38 <toggles_w> you go to the licensing page there is no real free option
Aug 04 07:03:45 <timeless> for which?
Aug 04 07:03:45 <toggles_w> at least the las tpage it sent me to
Aug 04 07:03:58 <timeless> actually, just give me a link and save me some pain
Aug 04 07:04:01 <toggles_w> unless of coures you want to upload to extras..
Aug 04 07:04:12 <toggles_w> i'll have to look for it
Aug 04 07:04:21 <pier_> dead end here ?
Aug 04 07:05:34 <timeless> stskeeps: ever watched the video on http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing/ ?
Aug 04 07:07:26 <toggles_w> i can't find the page i was looking at, think it had something to do with qt-mobility, with the deprecation (?? i think) of liblocation i was looking into how to progress to meego
Aug 04 07:07:51 <timeless> oh
Aug 04 07:07:55 <timeless> that's not gtk/qt
Aug 04 07:08:00 <timeless> but yes, that's a trail of tears :)
Aug 04 07:08:03 <toggles_w> anyway, the lgpl bit didn't seem to be there from what i remember
Aug 04 07:08:05 <toggles_w> lol
Aug 04 07:08:21 <timeless> http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing/
Aug 04 07:08:29 <toggles_w> all the lic pages i see now show lgpl, so i suppose that works?
Aug 04 07:08:37 <timeless> http://qt.nokia.com/about/licensing/
Aug 04 07:08:38 <toggles_w> timeless: yeah
Aug 04 07:08:52 <timeless> lgpl was Mar '09
Aug 04 07:09:13 <timeless> hrm
Aug 04 07:09:19 <timeless> no fair, qt.nokia.com's web content doesn't suck
Aug 04 07:09:30 <timeless> we need to get someone from .nokia.com to get right on it and fix that
Aug 04 07:09:35 <toggles_w> again, i was running down the "trail of tears" and only saw two options on the page i arived at
Aug 04 07:09:46 <mece> timeless, to make it suck as expected or..?
Aug 04 07:09:48 <timeless> provide links
Aug 04 07:09:53 <timeless> mece affirmative
Aug 04 07:10:00 <toggles_w> might be android time...
Aug 04 07:10:14 <mece> toggles_w, why?
Aug 04 07:10:17 <Stskeeps> toggles_w: lgpl is there
Aug 04 07:10:23 <Stskeeps> http://qt.nokia.com/downloads
Aug 04 07:10:24 <toggles_w> that would be cool, i could write a emo-quit ;-)
Aug 04 07:10:47 <timeless> it provides an unacceptably good user experience which will set unachievable expectations for users of .nokia.com
Aug 04 07:10:57 <timeless> the fix is obvious! :)
Aug 04 07:11:37 <mece> toggles_w, LOL you could try to top qwerty in lulz and profanity :D
Aug 04 07:11:44 <toggles_w> ;-)
Aug 04 07:11:55 <mece> timeless, delete the css file might help.
Aug 04 07:12:06 <timeless> mece: nah, needs more flash
Aug 04 07:12:09 <timeless> much more
Aug 04 07:12:20 <mece> haaa yeah
Aug 04 07:12:21 <timeless> and can't use third party flash (youtube), must reinvent the wheel
Aug 04 07:12:49 <mece> timeless: ftw!
Aug 04 07:12:57 <timeless> also qt.nokia.com is missing the absolutely useless landing page
Aug 04 07:13:25 <timeless> with the checkbox to remember my choice
Aug 04 07:13:48 <timeless> oh, and it needs a suckier favicon, like the one used by nokia.com
Aug 04 07:13:59 <timeless> nokia.com uses an O
Aug 04 07:14:05 <timeless> surely Qt should use a t?
Aug 04 07:15:20 <timeless> oh, and the copyright at the bottom is too readable w/ dark gray on light gray
Aug 04 07:15:26 <timeless> it should be white on light gray
Aug 04 07:15:31 <timeless> to match the light gray on white used by nokia :)
Aug 04 07:16:15 <timeless> and there's too much padding between links at the bottom, it should just be a series of words with no space, no concern for alignment...
Aug 04 07:17:07 <toggles_w> lol, who's "the frenchman on irc"?
Aug 04 07:17:17 <mece> toggles_w, I was wondering the same
Aug 04 07:17:19 <toggles_w> it's personal..
Aug 04 07:19:32 <jacekowski> it's crashanddie afaik
Aug 04 07:19:38 <jacekowski> but i'm not sure
Aug 04 07:20:44 <jacekowski> somebody sent me an e-mail about chromium
Aug 04 07:20:47 <jacekowski> asking where is it
Aug 04 07:20:53 <jacekowski> with 4 line signature
Aug 04 07:20:55 <jacekowski> containing
Aug 04 07:20:59 <jacekowski> Confidentiality Warning: The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender by return mail and delete the ma
Aug 04 07:21:24 <mece> hee
Aug 04 07:23:43 <jacekowski> seriously, waste 4 lines onto that kind of bullshit that nobody cares about
Aug 04 07:27:27 <mece> jacekowski, so where is chromium?
Aug 04 07:31:07 <toggles_w> mece: you forgot your confidentiality part so you wont get an answer
Aug 04 07:49:28 <mece> hey linux knowitalls, /dev/fuse is root/root, normally I would use the group fuse to give user rights to mount sshfs, but that doesn't seem to work the same way it does on my desktop comp. What to do?
Aug 04 07:50:34 <psycho_oreos> use sudo?
Aug 04 07:50:51 <mece> psycho_oreos: I don't want to.
Aug 04 07:51:06 <mece> psycho_oreos: I want to mount as user
Aug 04 07:52:06 <psycho_oreos> mece, then you should very well know how to do it, give fuse group more rights or whatever
Aug 04 07:52:37 <psycho_oreos> or can't you simply chown the file?
Aug 04 07:53:10 <psycho_oreos> mece, to be obsessed with security and not know how to operate linux properly is quite an irony :P
Aug 04 07:55:06 * CasTTeLLo away....
Aug 04 08:01:13 <CasTTeLLo> A
Aug 04 08:03:02 <pronto> D
Aug 04 08:05:43 <crashanddie> wtf? My n900 charged all night, green light to indicate it was charged, pulled it out, and it made the low battery sound
Aug 04 08:05:54 <mece> psycho_oreos: ok got it.
Aug 04 08:06:01 <mece> crashanddie: ow.
Aug 04 08:06:19 <crashanddie> anyway, going for an inteview, later all
Aug 04 08:08:04 <mece> this is how: root, groupadd fuse, chgrp fuse /dev/fuse, usermod -G fuse -a user, reboot
Aug 04 08:08:22 <mece> couldn't get the session resetted in a less gressive way for some reason.
Aug 04 08:08:40 <mece> s/gressive/aggressive/
Aug 04 08:08:41 <infobot> mece meant: couldn't get the session resetted in a less aggressive way for some reason.
Aug 04 08:09:24 <knightstalker> Hello
Aug 04 08:09:36 <mece> knightstalker, 'ello
Aug 04 08:13:14 <ghostcube> hi folks, is there a trick to ge cups server working seems iam missing the driver files?
Aug 04 08:16:46 <mece> ghostcube, there's a thread on that on tmo that solved it I think.
Aug 04 08:17:30 <mece> ghostcube, no that was client..
Aug 04 08:17:31 <mece> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56932
Aug 04 08:19:44 <jacekowski> mece: in the repository
Aug 04 08:19:54 <ghostcube> mece: hmm i installed cups server here in the n900 by apt-get
Aug 04 08:20:08 <ghostcube> and i see the cups page but i cant choose any drivers
Aug 04 08:20:19 <jacekowski> crashanddie: restart
Aug 04 08:20:30 <jacekowski> crashanddie: i had same thing happen to me
Aug 04 08:22:52 <mece> ghostcube, I haven't tried it so I don't know what the problem is.
Aug 04 08:23:28 <ghostcube> hmmm, you cant choose any driver so i think i would need a package providing but foomatic and gutenprint arent available
Aug 04 08:24:00 <ZogG> morning
Aug 04 08:24:57 <ghostcube> even an s55 by simens can print to network easily
Aug 04 08:25:19 <ghostcube> i more and more get the feeling that i bought the wrong handy for my needs ...
Aug 04 08:25:23 <ghostcube> :D
Aug 04 08:25:39 <knightstalker> ghostcube,ouch 4 u :p
Aug 04 08:25:57 <ghostcube> its just missing essential things
Aug 04 08:27:54 <Jucato> Hi! Qt on Maemo 4 question: Phonon is simply not playing any music (basic example using createPlayer()). it warns that gstreamer0.10-plugins-good seems not installed, but it's there. any ideas?
Aug 04 08:31:39 <ghostcube> is there any place to sell an n900
Aug 04 08:31:41 <ghostcube> -.-
Aug 04 08:31:48 <ghostcube> or anybody wanting one?
Aug 04 08:31:52 <Stskeeps> donate it to someone
Aug 04 08:31:53 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 04 08:33:55 <psycho_oreos> donate it to me ;)
Aug 04 08:34:23 <jacekowski> ghostcube: use ipp
Aug 04 08:34:48 <jacekowski> ghostcube: just add network printer from other cups server
Aug 04 08:34:54 <jacekowski> ghostcube: how much do you want for it?
Aug 04 08:34:57 <ghostcube> i dont have other cups servers
Aug 04 08:35:06 <jacekowski> so how do you want to print?
Aug 04 08:35:14 <jacekowski> you need connect to printer somehow
Aug 04 08:35:17 <ghostcube> with cups server on n900
Aug 04 08:35:25 <ghostcube> like i do at home too
Aug 04 08:35:29 <jacekowski> and well, n900 doesn't have parallel port
Aug 04 08:35:33 <jacekowski> to connect to printer
Aug 04 08:35:51 <ghostcube> why should it, it should attache an wlan printer to my printers
Aug 04 08:35:57 <ghostcube> like i do at home
Aug 04 09:00:24 <X-Fade> MeeGo Open Source Advocate job: http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/jobdetail.ftl
Aug 04 09:02:27 <Kaadlajk> "no longer available" that was quick
Aug 04 09:02:39 <frals> X-Fade: anything you can do about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11031 ?
Aug 04 09:02:40 <povbot> Bug 11031: python-all depending on specific python version breaks updating python modules
Aug 04 09:04:16 <X-Fade> Kaadlajk: Hmm POST form, great ;) http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en&radiusType=K&radius=1&organization=2746770113868&searchcriteria.state=false
Aug 04 09:05:21 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: isn't that quim's title?
Aug 04 09:05:35 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Well I guess they need one in .fi too ;)
Aug 04 09:06:03 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: ah, european open source advocate
Aug 04 09:06:18 <X-Fade> Yeah, change of territory.
Aug 04 09:07:56 <lbt_> doppleganger
Aug 04 09:32:28 <defragger> is mer useful for n900?
Aug 04 09:32:36 <Stskeeps> no
Aug 04 09:32:51 <defragger> kk thx :)
Aug 04 09:46:14 <B45h_V|> got some problems with my n900. something is generating a lot of network traffic and using a lot of battery. conky liss e-addressbook-f to be the process using most cpu (about 5 % at 500mhz). if i kill it it will immediately restart. restarting the device didn` help. can U help me?
Aug 04 09:47:46 <Wolfie> check your network traffic with nettop?
Aug 04 09:48:22 <Wolfie> 5% "idle" CPU usage doesn't strike me as particularly odd on the phone
Aug 04 09:48:27 <Wolfie> to my personal experiences, that is
Aug 04 09:49:13 <B45h_V|> battery was down about 5 times as fast as usual today
Aug 04 09:50:03 <B45h_V|> where can i get nettop
Aug 04 09:50:33 <Wolfie> wireless data is (to my knowledge) what drains the battery most
Aug 04 09:51:25 <B45h_V|> wifi is switcued off. just mobile network is up
Aug 04 09:51:35 <Wolfie> do you have a data connection on?
Aug 04 09:51:56 <Wolfie> ntop is the application's name, iirc
Aug 04 09:51:56 <B45h_V|> how 2 find out?
Aug 04 09:52:04 <Wolfie> you have the icon in the status bar
Aug 04 09:52:12 <Wolfie> right side of the battery icon
Aug 04 09:52:23 <knightstalker> (GPRS/EDGE/3G),B4h_V|,you are using any of them atm?
Aug 04 09:53:01 <B45h_V|> yeah, there is one
Aug 04 09:56:04 <B45h_V|> can´t find ntop :(
Aug 04 10:03:32 <Wolfie> netstat is preinstalled, which can show some info
Aug 04 10:07:03 <stef_204> hi, is it me or has the url for the usual maemo repository changed? I can't seem to be able to contact it
Aug 04 10:08:03 <BCMM> could just be a network problem, either with you or with the server
Aug 04 10:08:59 <stef_204> BCMM: yes. I am in a different country, "roaming" and there seems ot be DNS problems with the connections
Aug 04 10:09:23 <stef_204> I'll check on it when I'm back--couple of days from now
Aug 04 10:10:14 <BCMM> once, after using a wlan that hijacked DNS requests to a page telling you how to get a username and password for its services, i found that the hijacked DNS requests seemed to have been cached, and i ended up there when using normal networks
Aug 04 10:10:24 <BCMM> presumably, there is a way to flush said cache
Aug 04 10:10:57 <BCMM> (i have no idea if/how maemo caches DNS requests, but from that experience, i assume it must)
Aug 04 10:13:20 <zap> Anybody knows if Maemo Control Panel applets may be written in Python?
Aug 04 10:14:34 <stef_204> BCMM: you're probably right
Aug 04 10:17:32 <frals> zap: afaik its possible with some workarounds, i *think* alterego has done it
Aug 04 10:17:54 <BCMM> stef_204: if you work out how to flush the DNS cache, let me know...
Aug 04 10:17:54 <zap> Do you know any details?
Aug 04 10:18:12 <stef_204> BCMM: will do, googling for it now....
Aug 04 10:18:12 <zap> I basically just need to run some external app when a control panel applet is started
Aug 04 10:26:02 <zap> "No, unfortunately we don't have created bindings for Control Panel, Status Bar and Home Applets stuff. We have plans to make it until June". Sun, 28 Jan 2007
Aug 04 10:28:36 <stef_204> BCMM: <https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7665>
Aug 04 10:28:38 <povbot> Bug 7665: cannot update official Nokia repos through wi-fi/wlan connection (akamai.com issue)
Aug 04 10:28:55 <stef_204> not the answer you're looking for but the bug is exactly what I am encountering
Aug 04 10:29:41 <stef_204> to clear the DNS cache, it is probably sufficient to stop and restard nscd daemon
Aug 04 10:33:33 <kerio> what's wrong with just using the proper DNSes?
Aug 04 10:34:16 <alterego> So an ubuntu 10.04 desktop install, with the Nokia Qt SDK and scratchbox with the Fremantle SDK is just under 10G
Aug 04 10:34:21 <alterego> Not bad
Aug 04 10:37:51 <CasTTeLLo> ....
Aug 04 10:38:12 <CasTTeLLo> hello
Aug 04 10:39:13 <CasTTeLLo> woke up
Aug 04 10:42:45 <timeless> Hey Abbaaaooott!
Aug 04 10:43:35 <timeless> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c9mlOrDhc4
Aug 04 10:44:25 <tobis87> Hi! I just tried to use the Maemo SDK inside VirtualBox, because I get this strange CPU-transparency bug on a native x86_64 machine and the vm just crashes after installing the VBoxGuestAddititons (by hand). The scripts which are located on the Desktop of the vm also can't find commands. This has to be a bad joke, why did nokia just not supplied a cross-compiler with source?
Aug 04 10:48:25 <tobis87> Since my glibc is so old, I would have to compile the cross-compiler anyway, but the cross-compiler which I have found around the net are all newer than the gcc which is in the sdk and with witch the kernel was build. So until now, my only  way to compile stuff was to compile it on the device. But since I want aria2, bsdgames and other stuff in the future to be compiled, it would't be that great to install all of these dev packages on the n
Aug 04 10:48:40 <jacekowski> tobis87: they did
Aug 04 10:48:48 <alterego> tobis87: they did
Aug 04 10:48:56 <jacekowski> tobis87: tobis87 it's all in scratchbox
Aug 04 10:49:26 <jacekowski> tobis87: if you want i can give you access to my server with scratchbox installed
Aug 04 10:49:40 <jacekowski> and everything working perfectly
Aug 04 10:49:47 <jacekowski> on x86_64
Aug 04 10:50:27 <jacekowski> tobis87: why are you using old glibc?
Aug 04 10:51:06 <alterego> I'm not sure how you can blame Nokia for virtual box guest addition problems.
Aug 04 10:51:17 <alterego> I did exactly the same as you and it worked fine though
Aug 04 10:51:19 <alterego> What did you use for the OS?
Aug 04 10:51:37 <jacekowski> alterego: i think that's way to go now
Aug 04 10:51:43 <jacekowski> alterego: blame nokia for everything
Aug 04 10:51:55 <alterego> Heh
Aug 04 10:51:57 <jacekowski> let's all blame nokia for global warming
Aug 04 10:52:00 <jacekowski> and world hunger
Aug 04 10:52:02 <jacekowski> and niggers
Aug 04 10:52:07 <sx0n> naggers?
Aug 04 10:52:14 <BCMM> if it weren't for the Conspiracy, my battery would never run out.
Aug 04 10:52:35 <alterego> Yeah, damn Nokia for causing global hunger, and, erm, causing the econmic crisis.
Aug 04 10:54:11 <alterego> My external YUSB drive maemo development install is working nicely ..
Aug 04 10:54:16 <alterego> just under 10G though :D
Aug 04 10:54:31 <jacekowski> i have my everything on my server
Aug 04 10:54:37 <jacekowski> in france
Aug 04 10:54:47 <jacekowski> and it's there working all the time
Aug 04 10:54:55 <jacekowski> and i can access it from everywhere
Aug 04 10:55:03 <sx0n> i developing on vbox without problems, occasional crashes time to time but still..
Aug 04 10:55:12 <jacekowski> vbox is slow
Aug 04 10:55:17 <mece> smoking hot new version of fhereoes2 coming to extras. It's the latest from upstream svn. Not sure if it actually works though.
Aug 04 10:55:21 <mece> it did start
Aug 04 10:55:23 <sx0n> my pc is slow
Aug 04 10:55:24 <jacekowski> well partialy because my host was slowish
Aug 04 10:55:31 <alterego> jacekowski: if I had a server I would do the same :)
Aug 04 10:55:40 <mece> who has problems with vbox?
Aug 04 10:55:51 <sx0n> pacakge compiling takes ~30 minutes. at home it is something like 4 minutes.
Aug 04 10:56:00 <sx0n> *package
Aug 04 10:56:03 <mece> i run vbox on my work winxp and full linux mint in that, and I mount that linux mint from my n900 over 3g. and it's sweet.
Aug 04 10:56:30 <mece> err yeah in that linux mint I run scratchbox, naturally, and in that scratchbox I run UAE
Aug 04 10:56:50 <alterego> That's sstrange, my compositor just crashed
Aug 04 10:57:02 <mece> so I have a virtual os in a virtual os in a virtual os.
Aug 04 10:57:08 <mece> and it's kinda slow actually.
Aug 04 10:57:42 <jacekowski> alterego: you can get one from £20/moth
Aug 04 10:58:50 <sx0n> y'dog
Aug 04 10:58:53 <alterego> I can't afford that at the m,moment, but it is probably top on my priority for next tech purchase
Aug 04 10:59:13 <jacekowski> do you want account on mine?
Aug 04 10:59:20 <jacekowski> i still have loads of cpu left
Aug 04 10:59:23 <jacekowski>  12:59:22 up 63 days, 22:26,  0 users,  load average: 0.02, 0.08, 0.25
Aug 04 10:59:48 <jacekowski> and it builds stuff faster than maemo autobuilder
Aug 04 11:00:55 <alterego> Neah, I'm fine with what I haver, if I can think of a compelling reason for needing it, I'll let you know though ;)
Aug 04 11:10:42 <crashanddie> jacekowski: thanks, restart fixed it.
Aug 04 11:10:56 <crashanddie> jacekowski: so it's just BME thinking the battery is dry, even though it isn't?
Aug 04 11:11:11 <tobis87> alterego: I don't blame nokia on the VBoxGuestAddititons problem, it is just strange for me to run a i386 vm in which qemu virtualises a arm cpu. Wouldn't be possible to have an image for which qemu could directy emulate the arm cpu? I have compiled mingw32 and mingw64 cross compiler, but I think compiling the cross-compiler for arm will be harder since you need the kernel header and the glibc as well and packaging will also cause troubles 
Aug 04 11:11:53 <jacekowski> crashanddie: it happened to me only once and i never had chance to investigate why did that happen
Aug 04 11:12:25 <alterego> tobis87: you don't have to use the emulator and if all you want is a cross toolchain then maybe madde would be better for you
Aug 04 11:12:40 <jacekowski> tobis87: no because it's little bit more than that
Aug 04 11:12:56 <jacekowski> tobis87: qemu only emulates stuff that can't be run as native binary
Aug 04 11:13:05 <jacekowski> tobis87: and that image isn't official stuff from nokia
Aug 04 11:13:14 <jacekowski> tobis87: stuff that's official from nokia is a scratchbox
Aug 04 11:13:50 <jacekowski> tobis87: and that vm is just that
Aug 04 11:13:58 <jacekowski> tobis87: ubuntu vm with scratchbox installed
Aug 04 11:14:16 <mece> craaap
Aug 04 11:14:32 <mece> the version was apparently lower than the previous :/
Aug 04 11:17:21 <tobis87> jacekowski: I didn't meen qemu to run the binaries native. Could Qemu not run the Maemo (arm) from an image?
Aug 04 11:17:39 <jacekowski> it could
Aug 04 11:17:47 <jacekowski> do you know how slow it would be?
Aug 04 11:18:17 <jacekowski> unless you have one of the latest cpu's it would be slower than n900
Aug 04 11:18:29 <tobis87> jacekowski: Slower than running qemu as an emulator inside a vm?
Aug 04 11:18:34 <jacekowski> yes
Aug 04 11:18:49 <jacekowski> qemu is only emulating part of binaries
Aug 04 11:18:50 <jacekowski> compiler is still native
Aug 04 11:19:34 <jacekowski> but you can download qemu images
Aug 04 11:19:36 <jacekowski> and run them
Aug 04 11:22:29 <tobis87> jacekowski: How much is the overhead of a vm? Several years ago, it was terrible slow. Did this vanderpool technologie improve the speed, I read they run now run the code of the vm on ring 1.
Aug 04 11:24:15 <jacekowski> i think you live in stone age
Aug 04 11:24:25 <jacekowski> vm's were fast from day one
Aug 04 11:24:29 <alterego> Heh
Aug 04 11:24:48 <jacekowski> slowest thing in vm isn't running the code
Aug 04 11:24:54 <jacekowski> it's hardware emulation that has to be done
Aug 04 11:24:58 <alterego> Yeah, hardware emulation
Aug 04 11:25:21 <alterego> Which still needs to be done with virtual box and a load of others.
Aug 04 11:25:23 <jacekowski> and pacifica or vanderpool have not improved anything in that matter
Aug 04 11:25:42 <jacekowski> paravirtualisation improved stuff a bit
Aug 04 11:25:51 <jacekowski> but hardware emulation isn't that slow
Aug 04 11:25:57 <jacekowski> and it's not required that often
Aug 04 11:26:25 <alterego>     QObject::connect(ui->textEdit, SIGNAL(textChanged(QString)),
Aug 04 11:26:25 <alterego>                      this, SIGNAL(textChanged(QString)));
Aug 04 11:26:31 <alterego> Whoops
Aug 04 11:28:59 <jacekowski> and well, worst case scenario impact of running in vm is under 10%
Aug 04 11:33:41 <tobis87> jacekowski: I know that I'm living in the stone age, at least my pc is. Compiling the dependencies needs more time than compiling the original program. But everything works, and upgrading the glibc would cause more trouble than taking the extra time.
Aug 04 11:35:07 <alterego> tobis87: seriously, look into madde, it's basically just the toolchain and the libs
Aug 04 11:35:28 <alterego> Runs without scratchbox, it comes as part of Nokia Qt SDK or you can install it seperately.
Aug 04 11:38:56 <tobis87> jacekowski: Thank you for explaining the problem of using a native arm image, now using VirtualBox seems less bad to me. I was just fad up with the options. Updating the sytem for scratchbox, Building a arm cross-compiler or fiddeling inside a vm which also is not fun if its resolution is like 800x600.
Aug 04 11:39:51 <jacekowski> well, i don't use that vm like that
Aug 04 11:39:54 <jacekowski> i was using it over ssh
Aug 04 11:40:05 <jacekowski> so vm was running in the background
Aug 04 11:40:22 <jacekowski> and i was using ssh to get to it
Aug 04 11:41:01 <tobis87> alterego: I will go with the vm image, also if its not much fun. Installing Qt SDK which I don't use anyway would be just a waste of space.
Aug 04 11:41:17 <tobis87>  jacekowski: do you mean the server image?
Aug 04 11:41:39 <alterego> tobis87: if you listened to what I said, you just need to install madde, it's a cross compiler tool chain for maemo ..
Aug 04 11:41:58 <alterego> You don't need to install the Nokia Qt SDK as well, I just said that madde was installed with it. You can get it seperately.
Aug 04 11:45:57 <tobis87> alterego: I will look into it, thanks.
Aug 04 11:53:26 <D-Iivil_Work> wassuup
Aug 04 11:53:27 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Aug 04 11:53:45 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Python situation better now?
Aug 04 11:54:54 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Hopefully - thanks for the promote, haven't had a chance to test
Aug 04 11:55:01 <D-Iivil_Work> Someone here who could help me with shell script & perl?
Aug 04 11:57:49 <mece> D-Iivil_Work: whacha need?
Aug 04 11:58:16 <mece> (dunno if I can help, but I can try)
Aug 04 11:58:35 <D-Iivil_Work> mece, well.. I have this need: I have a file that contains lines like this: sometexthere= someothertext 10"
Aug 04 11:59:14 <D-Iivil_Work> mece, I want to search that file for all lines that ends with 10" (number can varie) and then take that number, add 1 to the number and then replace the number with the result of calculation.
Aug 04 11:59:30 <D-Iivil_Work> mece, so in my example it would become like: sometexthere= someothertext 11"
Aug 04 11:59:58 <D-Iivil_Work> Dunno if this can be with basic shell scripting at all.
Aug 04 12:00:29 <mece> D-Iivil_Work: perhaps easiert to do it in python?
Aug 04 12:00:43 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: that's actually quite easy to do
Aug 04 12:00:46 <D-Iivil_Work> mece, it would need to be shell script.
Aug 04 12:00:57 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: why need to be a shell script?
Aug 04 12:00:58 <mece> crashanddie, go ahead :)
Aug 04 12:00:59 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, please share! I've been googling whole morning...
Aug 04 12:01:18 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, since the script does some other stuff also and don't want to re-write it.
Aug 04 12:01:30 <mece> D-Iivil_Work: you can run a python thing within a shellscript
Aug 04 12:01:34 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: can you post the beginning and some examples? I didn't see the earlier conversation
Aug 04 12:01:43 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, hold on.
Aug 04 12:02:40 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, here's an example: http://www.pastie.org/1074918
Aug 04 12:03:02 <mgedmin> D-Iivil_Work, vim solution: vim +'g/^sometexthere= someothertext \d\+"$/exe "norm $h\<C-A>"' /tmp/t.txt
Aug 04 12:03:04 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, I want to search through the file and change those xx" values into larger or smaller ones. Depending the argument given to the script.
Aug 04 12:03:05 <mgedmin> not as nice as I hoped
Aug 04 12:03:18 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: ok, hang on
Aug 04 12:03:24 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: python or shell?
Aug 04 12:03:43 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: it really doesn't matter, just your preference
Aug 04 12:03:44 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, as long as it runs on the device (N900) and can be launched from QT app.
Aug 04 12:03:52 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, shell in that case.
Aug 04 12:03:59 <crashanddie> ok, gimme some time
Aug 04 12:04:08 * D-Iivil_Work gives crashanddie some time
Aug 04 12:04:33 <crashanddie> what output do you want?
Aug 04 12:04:43 <crashanddie> the same as the file that was provided, but with the values changed?
Aug 04 12:04:50 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, yes!
Aug 04 12:04:55 <crashanddie> k
Aug 04 12:05:24 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, it should just change the values and then save the file
Aug 04 12:05:46 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, just like doing a basic search & replace function, but with simple math calculation
Aug 04 12:25:53 <lcuk> ~seen jott
Aug 04 12:25:54 <infobot> jott <n=j@unaffiliated/jott> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 662d 21h 10m 56s ago, saying: ':)'.
Aug 04 12:26:44 <X-Fade> That is a sad sight.
Aug 04 12:26:54 <D-Iivil_Work> X-Fade, what is?
Aug 04 12:27:51 <X-Fade> D-Iivil_Work: Scroll up 3 lines :)
Aug 04 12:28:15 <D-Iivil_Work> X-Fade, I know you ment that, but what's so sad about it?
Aug 04 12:28:36 <MohammadAG51> 662 days ago
Aug 04 12:28:46 <D-Iivil_Work> Yes, and? :D
Aug 04 12:28:56 <D-Iivil_Work> Guy visited this channell three years ago?
Aug 04 12:29:19 <D-Iivil_Work> Is he some legend or something?
Aug 04 12:29:21 <X-Fade> We lost a very active community member it seems.
Aug 04 12:29:27 <D-Iivil_Work> Ok.
Aug 04 12:29:44 <D-Iivil_Work> Haven't been around so long I would regognize the nick.
Aug 04 12:30:04 <lcuk> X-Fade, indeed, reminded about him this morning for some reason :)
Aug 04 12:30:04 <achipa> well, two years, unless you're on Venus, but still sad
Aug 04 12:30:30 <MohammadAG51> X-Fade, two actually
Aug 04 12:30:36 <D-Iivil_Work> achipa, touche :)
Aug 04 12:30:38 <MohammadAG51> we lost another one yesterday
Aug 04 12:30:49 <D-Iivil_Work> MohammadAG51, qwerty12?
Aug 04 12:31:06 <MohammadAG51> yes
Aug 04 12:31:48 <lcuk> and not in the direction certain folks would have it be.
Aug 04 12:31:52 <technomike> Does the wifi use the same chip as the bluetooth
Aug 04 12:32:16 <SpeedEvil> no
Aug 04 12:32:28 <SpeedEvil> wifi chip is standalone
Aug 04 12:32:32 <ghostcube> faster app manager gets better :)
Aug 04 12:32:32 <SpeedEvil> bluetooth shares with FM
Aug 04 12:32:59 <MohammadAG51> i hate fapman cause it refreshes the list
Aug 04 12:33:16 <tobis87> technomike: http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html
Aug 04 12:34:25 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, I have to leave the IRC in 15 mins, so in case I'm not here when you have some guidance for me, could you please PM me so that I'll find your message in the morning :) Thx!
Aug 04 12:34:41 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: will do
Aug 04 12:34:50 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, super.
Aug 04 12:34:59 <E0x> D-Iivil_Work: not go , this ppl is getting sad
Aug 04 12:35:01 <technomike> Just got my bluetooth a2dp stereo earphones going with my N900, and when I use the wifi, and start downloading or something,  the audio starts breaking up
Aug 04 12:35:04 <E0x> :P
Aug 04 12:35:07 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Wifi#Hardware
Aug 04 12:35:09 <technomike> thats why I ask
Aug 04 12:35:20 <D-Iivil_Work> E0x, ?
Aug 04 12:35:26 <SpeedEvil> downloading how?
Aug 04 12:35:30 <E0x> hehe , nevermind
Aug 04 12:35:39 <D-Iivil_Work> E0x, didn't understand at all :D
Aug 04 12:35:45 <SpeedEvil> Audio can breakup in some circumstances.
Aug 04 12:35:49 <E0x> technomike: that happen me too
Aug 04 12:36:00 <SpeedEvil> on speakers and headset too
Aug 04 12:36:08 <technomike> Ture
Aug 04 12:36:09 <technomike> true
Aug 04 12:36:20 <E0x> technomike: but what i check is when some wifi/connection/whatever is process the cpu get to top
Aug 04 12:36:23 <technomike> CPU activity isn't high either though or anythging
Aug 04 12:36:33 <E0x> and that cause bluetooth get chop
Aug 04 12:36:39 <E0x> hmm
Aug 04 12:36:42 <E0x> here is high
Aug 04 12:36:56 <technomike> Oh yeah CPU is high now
Aug 04 12:36:59 <SpeedEvil> Do non-bluetooth phones or speaker chip?
Aug 04 12:37:03 <SpeedEvil> chop
Aug 04 12:37:18 <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, bluetooth should use as much and no more CPU as headphones
Aug 04 12:37:33 <E0x> SpeedEvil: with wired headphone
Aug 04 12:37:34 <E0x> don't happen
Aug 04 12:37:51 <SpeedEvil> Happens with me. - installing apps forex.
Aug 04 12:37:54 <E0x> headphone/headset
Aug 04 12:38:08 <E0x> hmm
Aug 04 12:38:17 <E0x> true , when you are install something it happen
Aug 04 12:38:24 <E0x> ( with wired one )
Aug 04 12:38:43 <E0x> so my theory is wrong :(
Aug 04 12:39:05 <ghostcube> MohammadAG51: is there any chance there will be an working cups server or an print application?
Aug 04 12:39:37 <MohammadAG51> hmm, why are you asking me?
Aug 04 12:39:39 <E0x> i saw somebugs relate to FM tunner
Aug 04 12:39:41 <E0x> and wifi
Aug 04 12:39:49 <E0x> maybe is related
Aug 04 12:39:53 <ghostcube> MohammadAG51: you mostly knew the apps :)
Aug 04 12:40:04 <MohammadAG51> heh
Aug 04 12:40:10 <technomike> I just started the app manager to download some apps, and now its started chopping up again
Aug 04 12:40:16 <technomike> but that is understandable
Aug 04 12:40:24 <technomike> and CPU is high
Aug 04 12:41:04 <E0x> technomike: i think even if the cpu is high that not should be happen with bluetooth or wired headset
Aug 04 12:41:07 <SpeedEvil> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7190
Aug 04 12:41:08 <povbot> Bug 7190: music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web
Aug 04 12:41:10 <SpeedEvil> See that
Aug 04 12:41:13 <SpeedEvil> It's fixed.
Aug 04 12:41:23 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: I can confirm it is fixed.
Aug 04 12:41:24 <SpeedEvil> Of course, it's fixed in an internal unreleased version.
Aug 04 12:41:26 <SpeedEvil> Grr.
Aug 04 12:41:32 <technomike> Yeah that happens to me too ^ The bug description
Aug 04 12:41:40 <technomike> oh damn :(
Aug 04 12:41:53 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: Can't get it to skip sound even with browsers opening and AM hammering at the same time.
Aug 04 12:41:54 <D-Iivil_Work> Why they can't release upgrades in smaller pieces instead of full PR1XXX packages...
Aug 04 12:42:12 <SpeedEvil> (I don't know if the requisite changes in pulseaudio have been pushed upstream, if they have, in principle you may be able to upgrade pulseaudio)
Aug 04 12:42:15 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: Great!
Aug 04 12:42:18 <technomike> Agreed D-Iivil_Work
Aug 04 12:42:23 <mece> why can't I ever get those gaddamn ssh keys to work as they should?!?!?
Aug 04 12:42:27 * SpeedEvil steals X-Fade's pulseaudio.
Aug 04 12:42:52 <technomike> Not sure if its a known thing, but are there any expected release dates on the next upgrade
Aug 04 12:43:04 <D-Iivil_Work> Isn't that the way how "normal" unix distributions works? They release fixes in smaller packages?
Aug 04 12:43:05 <mece> X-Fade, is the fixed version available somewhere?
Aug 04 12:43:06 <SpeedEvil> X-Fade: Can you comment on if it's a configuration of pulseaudio issue, or if there have been patches.
Aug 04 12:43:06 <X-Fade> technomike: No, it is never announced.
Aug 04 12:43:12 <technomike> Ok
Aug 04 12:43:12 <SpeedEvil> mece: no
Aug 04 12:43:20 <SpeedEvil> meveSee the above last comment on the bug
Aug 04 12:43:21 <mece> SpeedEvil: whythefraknot?!
Aug 04 12:43:22 <SpeedEvil> mece
Aug 04 12:43:32 <SpeedEvil> mece: Because nokia is awesome, and this way is better.
Aug 04 12:43:39 <technomike> haha
Aug 04 12:43:46 <X-Fade> SpeedEvil: I have no idea, I just noticed that it was fixed because it always annoyed me.
Aug 04 12:43:49 <E0x> suprise !! they say
Aug 04 12:43:49 <SpeedEvil> k
Aug 04 12:44:48 <X-Fade> MohammadAG51: check your other windows ;)
Aug 04 12:45:27 <lcuk> X-Fade, i gather the packages interface "facebook" search not finding "fb-migrator - Facebook migrator" got sidetracked? :p
Aug 04 12:45:44 * frals sidetracks lcuk to MohammadAG51 
Aug 04 12:46:06 * lcuk sidetrouts
Aug 04 12:46:08 <X-Fade> lcuk: Check first before accusing me of being lazy :)
Aug 04 12:46:17 <misc--> hi all... I was wondering if anyone has issues when connecting automatically to wifi or 3g. For example, I've set my device to connect to any connection and then connect to wireless when available. However...
Aug 04 12:46:18 * SpeedEvil wonders if there is a 'when will PR1.3 be announced' thread
Aug 04 12:46:24 <frals> btw, anyone got a pointer to where i can find the metrics on how the "Popular" downloads are generated?
Aug 04 12:46:30 <lcuk> http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=facebook
Aug 04 12:46:32 <lcuk> i did :P
Aug 04 12:46:34 <mece> SpeedEvil: no chance to get a patch? so those who feel like it can fix that stuff?
Aug 04 12:46:40 <SpeedEvil> mece: No.
Aug 04 12:46:45 <frals> 0.5 million downloads later and fmms finally showed up there :D
Aug 04 12:46:46 <mece> SpeedEvil: meh.
Aug 04 12:46:49 <X-Fade> lcuk: used the one on top?
Aug 04 12:46:57 <SpeedEvil> mece: internal fixed nokia versions are never released other than in PR* releases
Aug 04 12:47:13 <SpeedEvil> AIUI.
Aug 04 12:47:16 <mece> SpeedEvil: so they don't contribute to upstream at all?
Aug 04 12:47:18 <lcuk> and i never considered you lazy X-Fade !
Aug 04 12:47:27 * frals considers lcuk lazy
Aug 04 12:47:36 <SpeedEvil> mece: I think they only push them upstream after PR releases - I'm unsure though.
Aug 04 12:47:42 <SpeedEvil> mece: See above comment.
Aug 04 12:47:45 <misc--> right now, my device is not connected to my wireless (wireless icon not shown). However in a terminal, if I type 'iwconfig', it shows it's connected to my wireless, however I have no dhcp address. The key though I think is that if I type in iwlist wlan0 scan, I get: Interface doesn't support scanning : network is down. Any ideas?
Aug 04 12:47:54 <mece> ok..
Aug 04 12:48:01 <GAN900> SpeedEvil, not correct.
Aug 04 12:48:08 <lcuk> o_O X-Fade thats a different box!
Aug 04 12:48:09 <misc--> (oops I meant  I have no ip address. Anyway...)
Aug 04 12:48:12 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: completely correct.
Aug 04 12:48:13 <X-Fade> lcuk: http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=facebook&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same
Aug 04 12:48:14 <GAN900> Well, it may be component dependent.
Aug 04 12:48:16 <SpeedEvil> GAN900: it's what I think.
Aug 04 12:48:23 <SpeedEvil> :)
Aug 04 12:48:29 <GAN900> But generally Nokia does its coding upstream.
Aug 04 12:48:33 <SpeedEvil> K
Aug 04 12:48:42 <X-Fade> lcuk: Need to copy the code to the search box in the content part still it seems ;)
Aug 04 12:48:47 <SwedeMike> do we know if there's going to be a PR1.3 or PR2.0 or whatever for N900 ?
Aug 04 12:48:51 <SpeedEvil> In that case, one would expect to find the pulseaudio fix in the publically acvailable repository. I diddn't.
Aug 04 12:48:57 <mece> ahemm.. anyone here have Free Heroes 2 installed?
Aug 04 12:49:15 <lcuk> heh X-Fade thanks -  barisione will be happy to see fb-migrator listed there!
Aug 04 12:49:16 <SpeedEvil> I only looked through it for about half an hour though.
Aug 04 12:49:26 <E0x> how i can selected text in terminal ?
Aug 04 12:49:37 <SpeedEvil> E0x: select the pointer on the screen
Aug 04 12:49:38 <frals> X-Fade: code duplication is baaaaad! ;-)
Aug 04 12:49:46 <mece> E0x: click and drag. if there is an arrow down there, then click that first.
Aug 04 12:50:01 <technomike> No offence and I am sure we all feel the same, but the way Nokia update their devices needs to be improved and more often, with smaller more often updates, rather than just big RX packages.
Aug 04 12:50:04 <X-Fade> frals: It is more that I need to add it to the style.
Aug 04 12:50:10 <SpeedEvil> E0x: then drag
Aug 04 12:50:10 <SpeedEvil> E0x: then titlebar -> copy
Aug 04 12:50:18 <technomike> Just to get bugs fixed faster I mean
Aug 04 12:50:19 <X-Fade> frals: 2 lines of html ;)
Aug 04 12:50:22 <E0x> mece: SpeedEvil: great !
Aug 04 12:50:24 <E0x> thx
Aug 04 12:50:33 <E0x> the arrow thing was the key
Aug 04 12:50:35 <E0x> :D
Aug 04 12:50:36 <mece> E0x: you're quite welcome.
Aug 04 12:50:48 <mece> E0x: the arrow only appear after there is scrolling possiblt.
Aug 04 12:51:03 <technomike> Also, I am upset to see USBHOST support on the new Nokia N8, but no USBHOST on the N900
Aug 04 12:51:15 <technomike> Oh well
Aug 04 12:51:17 <frals> X-Fade: thats what they all say... or something ;D
Aug 04 12:51:30 <misc--> hmm if I type 'ifconfig wlan0 up', then at least now the 'iwlist wlan0 scan' works
Aug 04 12:51:39 <X-Fade> frals: sssh.
Aug 04 12:51:54 * frals goes back to enjoying his coffee
Aug 04 12:52:01 <D-Iivil_Work> crashanddie, gotta go now. Get back to you later :)
Aug 04 12:52:09 <mece> heard that from the nok factory that they are testing building the new meego phone protos due somewhere around december-january btw.
Aug 04 12:52:41 <frals> mece: is it true that everyone in finland has a relative working at nokia btw?
Aug 04 12:52:59 <frals> because ive got that impression :P
Aug 04 12:53:10 <mece> frals: yes, it's true.
Aug 04 12:53:20 <mece> frals, I have 3.
Aug 04 12:55:21 <frals> mece: i knew it! ;-)
Aug 04 12:56:37 <misc--> in the internet connections setup, there is a 'search interval' - does anybody know what command gets ran at that interval? (the one that does the search/connecting I guess)
Aug 04 12:57:51 <mgedmin> I doubt it's a separate command, misc--
Aug 04 12:58:06 <misc--> mgedmin: ah right ok
Aug 04 12:58:07 <mgedmin> I'm guessing icd brings the interface up, issues a scan, and waits for the results
Aug 04 12:58:12 <mgedmin> icd2
Aug 04 12:58:49 <misc--> right ok then, will investigate
Aug 04 12:59:22 * SpeedEvil stabs icd.
Aug 04 12:59:32 <mece> then things got stabby
Aug 04 12:59:49 <SpeedEvil> ICD is such a mess from a hacking POV.
Aug 04 13:03:51 <frals> SpeedEvil: agreed
Aug 04 13:04:05 <misc--> hmm where is the icd2 log I wonder :/
Aug 04 13:04:32 <SpeedEvil> Log? Why would users want logs?
Aug 04 13:04:41 <SpeedEvil> Or any debug information at all.
Aug 04 13:04:52 <SpeedEvil> Or any way to configure it out of the defaults provided by the nice GUI.
Aug 04 13:05:37 <harbaum> Is there a place selling n900 parts? I need the display part without the display itself (the shell with the touchscreen and the part withthe film cable)
Aug 04 13:05:39 <misc--> well I think there is a bug in it. I've been in wifi range for about an hour, but it didn't connect
Aug 04 13:05:53 <misc--> I killed icd2 and started it again and all of a sudden, it's connected to wifi
Aug 04 13:06:15 <SpeedEvil> harbaum: Most of them only sell to nokia authorised repair centres.
Aug 04 13:07:11 <SpeedEvil> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=n900%20replacement%20LCD&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories
Aug 04 13:07:13 <SpeedEvil> like that?
Aug 04 13:08:23 <harbaum> These are the screens. I need the screen compartment without the screen (or with screen, i don't care)
Aug 04 13:08:39 <SpeedEvil> ah
Aug 04 13:10:12 <mece> I get a "update file corrupted" from HAM when I try to update fheroes2. WTF? Clicking on the deb in the browser works fine.
Aug 04 13:10:27 <mece> gonna try a reboot. Never encountered that one before.
Aug 04 13:10:44 <lardman> knackered packages list?
Aug 04 13:11:15 <LuciusMare> Hello, what todo app do you use?
Aug 04 13:11:25 <kerio> i got nothing to do
Aug 04 13:12:00 <mece> LuciusMare: I use qlister. It's not a todo app though :)
Aug 04 13:12:18 <lardman> I'm still looking for a heirachical todo
Aug 04 13:12:36 <mece> lardman I don't even know what that means.
Aug 04 13:12:49 <lardman> things depend on other things
Aug 04 13:12:54 <mece> heh you can get a htc hero for 40€
Aug 04 13:12:55 <lardman> not just prioritised
Aug 04 13:13:26 <SpeedEvil> For example - first you have to catch a tribble, before you storm nokia HQ.
Aug 04 13:13:46 <mece> lardman, Ic
Aug 04 13:13:57 <kerio> lardman: how do you solve circular dependencies?
Aug 04 13:14:09 <LuciusMare> kerio: dpkg --force
Aug 04 13:14:18 <kerio> lol
Aug 04 13:14:20 <lardman> kerio: no clue
Aug 04 13:14:35 <kerio> and what if something you want to do requires a shitton of other things?
Aug 04 13:14:59 <kerio> like the whole of kde just to buy some peanut butter
Aug 04 13:15:10 <LuciusMare> I am using kanban, but it is not quite perfect, for example, You can't edit the tasks after you add them
Aug 04 13:15:10 <lardman> well that would be valid then
Aug 04 13:16:05 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: http://slexy.org/view/s2am4mF3vo
Aug 04 13:18:31 <mece> X-Fade, ping?
Aug 04 13:18:41 <X-Fade> mece: pong
Aug 04 13:19:00 <mece> X-Fade: I have a size mismatch on a package file, can you check it out?
Aug 04 13:19:32 <X-Fade> mece: Try again in a few minutes, that is probably a mirror issue.
Aug 04 13:19:47 <mece> X-Fade: I uploaded it twice by mistake. could that be the problem?
Aug 04 13:19:53 <X-Fade> Ah yes.
Aug 04 13:19:56 <X-Fade> Now I see it.
Aug 04 13:20:02 <X-Fade> That is not supposed to happen ;)
Aug 04 13:20:06 <mece> hee
Aug 04 13:20:31 <mece> X-Fade: There was a long delay until it started building, and I thought I forgot to click "move to autobuilder" so I uploaded again
Aug 04 13:20:39 <X-Fade> That is not an easy fix.
Aug 04 13:20:50 <LuciusMare> I used to have this gnome app, it even synced with rememberthemilk, it might be worthful to port it
Aug 04 13:20:53 <mece> X-Fade: I can upload a new version to replace it.
Aug 04 13:20:57 <mece> X-Fade: would that help
Aug 04 13:21:08 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: thanks :-) cloaks much appreciated
Aug 04 13:21:10 <X-Fade> mece: Yeah, that would be the easiest solution
Aug 04 13:21:17 <mece> X-Fade: ok, doing it now.
Aug 04 13:21:27 <mece> X-Fade: got a typo in the description anyway
Aug 04 13:22:25 <GAN900> eBay seems to be no longer working in MicroB. . . .
Aug 04 13:24:38 <GAN900> Useless thing
Aug 04 13:25:33 <X-Fade> GAN900: What doesn't work?
Aug 04 13:25:40 <mece> GAN900: what exactly doesnt work?
Aug 04 13:25:48 <GAN900> First it doesn't show any items
Aug 04 13:25:54 <GAN900> Now none of the links work
Aug 04 13:26:05 <X-Fade> Works for me?
Aug 04 13:26:14 <mece> ditto
Aug 04 13:26:15 <mece> ok I
Aug 04 13:27:14 <mece> I'm out. the updated package is in the queue X-Fade.
Aug 04 13:27:52 <GAN900> Missed the auction. Love this thing so much.
Aug 04 13:29:19 <X-Fade> GAN900: Works fine for me, even with flash disabled.
Aug 04 13:29:31 <RST38h> Moo all
Aug 04 13:29:34 <GAN900> Well, glad to hear it.
Aug 04 13:32:47 <th3hate> someone see my dpkg log: http://pastebin.com/sDA56xyb
Aug 04 13:32:50 <th3hate> and tell me whats wrong
Aug 04 13:38:42 <BCMM> th3hate: i'm a debian newbie, but that looks like a package collision
Aug 04 13:39:49 <toggles_w> yes, looks like it
Aug 04 13:39:53 <tobis87> th3hate: "trying to overwrite `/debian-binary', which is also in package mafw-gst-subtitles-applet" , you could force it with --force-overwrite
Aug 04 13:41:01 <th3hate> why would a theme conflict with mafw subtitles?
Aug 04 13:41:34 <kerio> welcome to maemo!
Aug 04 13:42:08 <X-Fade> congrats kerio for the most useless comment today.
Aug 04 13:42:28 <kerio> thanks
Aug 04 13:42:31 <kerio> was working on it
Aug 04 13:42:51 <tobis87> th3hate: It does not conflict, the theme deb contains  a file which mafw-gst-subtitles-applet also includes. Maybe it is the same, I would extract the deb and look if there is a difference
Aug 04 13:44:06 <kerio> ooh i want a Game Gripper for n900
Aug 04 13:50:47 <th3hate> if nokia allowed you to ask only one question about n900, and they will answer it
Aug 04 13:50:50 <th3hate> what would it be?
Aug 04 13:51:41 <BCMM> my cycle computer is broken. is there a maemo application that will use GPS to tell me how far I have travelled and at what average speed?
Aug 04 13:52:50 <achipa> (theatrical) WHYYYYyyyy....
Aug 04 13:52:56 <toggles_w> BCMM: I believe jspeed has a cycle theme
Aug 04 13:52:57 <X-Fade> BCMM: eCoach?
Aug 04 13:54:45 <frals> BCMM: ecoach, its pretty awesome
Aug 04 13:54:58 <frals> hmm, does it rain in helsinki atm?
Aug 04 13:55:17 <Stskeeps> go outside
Aug 04 13:55:18 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 04 13:56:12 <technomike> wasn't there a project for USBHOST support on N900
Aug 04 13:56:16 <technomike> ?
Aug 04 13:56:25 <frals> bah, cant be bothered, its pretty gray so i assume it might be raining
Aug 04 13:59:03 <SpeedEvil> technomike: yes
Aug 04 13:59:24 <SpeedEvil> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59554
Aug 04 13:59:41 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host
Aug 04 13:59:49 <MohammadAG> technomike, s/wasn't/isn't/
Aug 04 14:01:48 <GAN900> achipa, Why haven't you killed management yet? You mean?
Aug 04 14:03:08 <DocScrutinizer> technomike: the project itself is h-e-n
Aug 04 14:03:39 <achipa> GAN900: the advantage of the question is that it is universal and ackowledges that any response is superficial as it could not address any concerns
Aug 04 14:04:15 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: apropos, yesterday or day before I seen some gui with one giant size button
Aug 04 14:04:20 <GAN900> achipa, way to blow your one question. :P
Aug 04 14:04:32 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, giant is a understatement
Aug 04 14:05:05 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, but seriously, I'm having problems reproducing this shit
Aug 04 14:05:07 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, was whole screen. Now I seemto recall *one* giant button wasn't the problem :-P
Aug 04 14:05:49 <MohammadAG> for one, I can't spawn a shell in ssh
Aug 04 14:06:46 <tobis87> DocScrutinizer: What was that button for, "Overclock now"?
Aug 04 14:06:55 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: are we talking same topic? There were problems with h-e-n gui about certain max size of buttons
Aug 04 14:07:20 <MohammadAG> tobis87, I can adjust it to say "kick tobis87 now", close the damn subject
Aug 04 14:07:34 <mirf> tobis87: it's beecon somethingorother
Aug 04 14:07:38 <DocScrutinizer> tobis87: for sure not OC, but some similar thing. Otherwise I would not have forgotton what it actually was
Aug 04 14:07:45 <MohammadAG> discussing overclocking always results in an argument
Aug 04 14:08:13 <DocScrutinizer> YES!!! >:-(
Aug 04 14:08:22 <Corsac> no
Aug 04 14:08:25 <tobis87> MohammadAG: I was just making the point, that it is still to easy to oc, even through most people don't know the risk.
Aug 04 14:08:32 <DocScrutinizer> and in the end somebody gets kicked :-P
Aug 04 14:08:48 <DocScrutinizer> (usually me :-P)
Aug 04 14:09:20 <DocScrutinizer> tobis87: full ack
Aug 04 14:09:28 <toggles_w> there is a risk?
Aug 04 14:09:54 <MohammadAG> x_x
Aug 04 14:10:09 <MohammadAG> no, it's as safe as smoking
Aug 04 14:10:22 <DocScrutinizer> tobis87: according to QA guidelines, no app doing potential harm to the device may promote to extras. I really wonder how power kernel (and even the OC GUI?) made it there nevertheless
Aug 04 14:10:38 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, stupid QA team
Aug 04 14:10:42 <MohammadAG> I really hate -testing
Aug 04 14:10:53 <MohammadAG> or promoting to -testing
Aug 04 14:11:31 <Kegetys> its not potential harm, its guaranteed harm ;)
Aug 04 14:11:34 * frals bahs at another 7 days of quarantine
Aug 04 14:11:37 <MohammadAG> see http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/frozen-bubble/2.2.0-1maemo4/
Aug 04 14:11:58 <MohammadAG> I cba to upload it again cause someone (or 4) were too stupid to change votes
Aug 04 14:12:07 <MohammadAG> let it stay in -devel, I don't give a crap
Aug 04 14:12:29 <MohammadAG> make that 5
Aug 04 14:12:54 <nid0> how are they "too stupid"? should they be clever enough to have a crystal ball and know the issue's fixed?
Aug 04 14:13:07 * DocScrutinizer stares at the "8" on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/starhash-enabler/0.2/
Aug 04 14:13:29 <MohammadAG> nid0, they should notice a damn comment in their email inbox
Aug 04 14:13:37 <DocScrutinizer> c'mon - just 2 more, pretty please, with shugar on top :-D
Aug 04 14:13:44 <frals> anyone know of a good program to generate c++ stubs from a header?
Aug 04 14:13:52 <MohammadAG> or a reason I voted it up after voting it down
Aug 04 14:13:55 <nid0> yeah the comment feature hasnt formed for months (ever), and is why a new mailing list got setup a few days ago to show all package comments.
Aug 04 14:14:02 <johnsq> Hi
Aug 04 14:14:06 <nid0> so that email in their inboxes doesnt exist
Aug 04 14:14:36 <toggles_w> 9
Aug 04 14:15:02 <MohammadAG> nid0, _I_ don't care, they have (TESTER) next to their name so it's their job to check
Aug 04 14:15:11 <ecksun> is it possible to execute a script on a specific dbus-signal?
Aug 04 14:15:23 <nid0> job?
Aug 04 14:15:36 <DocScrutinizer> ecksun: check dbus-scripting pkg
Aug 04 14:15:50 <ecksun> thank you .)
Aug 04 14:15:52 <tobis87> DocScrutinizer: I don't understand why the power kernel is that bloated. That many driver which don't make sense, ipv6 without the browser supporting it or fs drivers without hostmode,dmcrypt etc...
Aug 04 14:16:15 <MohammadAG> nid0, whatever
Aug 04 14:17:36 <tobis87> DocScrutinizer: The only additional fs driver I have compiled was jfs for use inside a truecrypt volume.
Aug 04 14:18:37 <achipa> frals: I was wondering to suggest that time spent in extras-devel should count towards quarantine time... would that mean something to you ?
Aug 04 14:19:29 <frals> achipa: that would actually make sense, good idea imo
Aug 04 14:19:44 <nid0> that wouldnt really achieve much, imo the quarantine time should just be drastically reduced to 48 hours
Aug 04 14:19:50 <achipa> since it's the same package that will be in extras-testing anyway
Aug 04 14:19:57 <frals> achipa: exactly
Aug 04 14:20:09 <X-Fade> against ;)
Aug 04 14:20:14 <MohammadAG> nid0, imo the whole QA is fail
Aug 04 14:20:20 <achipa> X-Fade: yeah, yeah, we know ;)
Aug 04 14:20:40 <X-Fade> achipa: Most developers push to testing instantly anyway.
Aug 04 14:21:06 <achipa> nid0, X-Fade: the point is that if you publish an update to a package you don't have to wait ANOTHER 10 days if you can muster the votes
Aug 04 14:21:29 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, is there a way to reset votes on a package?
Aug 04 14:21:32 <Jaffa> achipa: Also against. The point of Testing is to get widespread testing to make sure there are no grues; the fact that there's been limited testing in Devel doesn't help there
Aug 04 14:21:35 <nid0> hence my thoughts are that the quarantine time should just be much lower.
Aug 04 14:21:37 <MohammadAG> uploading is slow, I cba to upload 20MBss
Aug 04 14:21:42 <achipa> e.g. if you realize a minor fix is needed on day 2 of quarantine, you can push to extras-devel and have to wait out just those two days
Aug 04 14:22:01 <X-Fade> achipa: consider waiting for 9 days and quicky promoting to testing and getting a mob of 10 votes.
Aug 04 14:22:19 <frals> is there any way to get number of downloads from devel/testing/extras separaterd per repo?
Aug 04 14:22:28 <X-Fade> no
Aug 04 14:22:30 <achipa> in what way is that different from mob voting on day 10 of a quarantine ?
Aug 04 14:22:31 <frals> im very interested in seeing how many actually get my package from respective repo
Aug 04 14:22:36 <Jaffa> achipa: Eh? That doesn't make sense. If you realised a fix was needed on day 2 of quarantine, you'd push and it'd reset to zero; whether it reset in Devel or Testing (with what you say)
Aug 04 14:22:40 <lcuk> and just for asking, we shall reset yours to 0 :P
Aug 04 14:22:55 <X-Fade> achipa: well you hide your package in from the queue view that way.
Aug 04 14:22:56 <nid0> achipa, the fact that its had 9 days of validly being available to test properly
Aug 04 14:22:57 <alterego> X-Fade: can't you get that info from the apache logs?
Aug 04 14:23:03 <achipa> Jaffa: non-crucial fix - a typo, etc
Aug 04 14:23:06 <Jaffa> achipa: Because we don't see mob voting?
Aug 04 14:23:10 <nid0> in -devel, its not in the testing queue for testers to test
Aug 04 14:23:18 <X-Fade> alterego: I have the data, just don't show it.
Aug 04 14:23:27 <alterego> Takes me about 3 days to get a mob of 10 votes.
Aug 04 14:23:33 <lcuk> frals, with half a MILLION downloads, you are worrying about breaking it down further :P
Aug 04 14:23:35 <Jaffa> achipa: Yes, but I obviously misunderstood your suggestion. I thought you were saying that if I had a package in Devel for 4 days, and then promoted it to Testing, it'd only need 6 days quarantine in Testing.
Aug 04 14:23:46 <alterego> X-Fade: so theoretically you could tell us ;)
Aug 04 14:23:47 <X-Fade> alterego: And the CDN has hundreds of servers, so no not one apache log ;)
Aug 04 14:23:54 <alterego> Oh, :/
Aug 04 14:24:37 <nid0> huh someone's fucked up majorly, play.com's been down for hours :\
Aug 04 14:24:43 <MohammadAG> alterego, theoretically X-Fade could also leak packages :P
Aug 04 14:24:48 * MohammadAG runs
Aug 04 14:25:10 <alterego> nid0: I could ask my friend what's up, she works there ;)
Aug 04 14:25:12 <Jaffa> achipa: Not that I'd be against a 7, or even 5, day quarantine.
Aug 04 14:25:16 <X-Fade> Updates could be treated differently though.
Aug 04 14:25:24 <X-Fade> It all comes down to trust.
Aug 04 14:25:36 <nid0> alterego: i'd guess they were doing some planned maintenance, ttl on their dns zones got bumped down to 300 secs today
Aug 04 14:25:38 <X-Fade> Do we trust a certain developer not to mess up updates.
Aug 04 14:25:43 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Indeed; I still think a trust-based "I certify this is just a minor update" checkbox - which perhaps gets voted on by testers as well
Aug 04 14:25:48 <nid0> but clearly cocked up somewhere, as it's been down since at least before lunch
Aug 04 14:25:49 <achipa> that was just an idea, though, lack of votes is far more an issue ATM
Aug 04 14:25:54 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Which might halve everything
Aug 04 14:25:55 * frals hides behind lcuk and yells 'trust me'
Aug 04 14:26:22 * achipa now knows how body snatchers evolved
Aug 04 14:26:25 * MohammadAG trouts frals
Aug 04 14:26:42 <achipa> on an unrelated note, remind me to kick someone in sensitive places if they suggest something should be determined by forum polls...
Aug 04 14:26:48 <X-Fade> Jaffa: All the numbers were just randomly picked. Sure they are up for discussion.
Aug 04 14:26:59 <nid0> thing is though, that idea of different types is going to open up more cans of worms for devs and users to whine at testers about. who defines what a minor update is?
Aug 04 14:27:04 <achipa> (not that such a thing is news)
Aug 04 14:27:10 <frals> i remember there was a discussion about changing the quarantine days a few months back, whatever happend to that?
Aug 04 14:27:12 <X-Fade> But I agree with achipa, the number of testers is our biggest problem.
Aug 04 14:27:24 <achipa> nid0: consensus
Aug 04 14:27:37 <Jaffa> nid0: A developer. If it's visible, we have a process for removing the developers ability to push said updates in future
Aug 04 14:27:41 <nid0> yeah, like the consensus about all the other qa rules that get bitched and whined about daily?
Aug 04 14:27:47 <achipa> nid0: the tough part is actually verifying that a declared minor update really is a minor update
Aug 04 14:28:12 <achipa> nid0: that's not consensus, nor can there be - it's a democracy
Aug 04 14:28:21 <frals> show diffs! ;-)
Aug 04 14:28:28 <X-Fade> I feel that we can better use our energy to get more testers and make testing more easy.
Aug 04 14:28:34 <frals> (doesnt work for non-free blobs though...)
Aug 04 14:28:42 <achipa> kisstester is almost ready
Aug 04 14:28:47 <X-Fade> A lot of people install from testing, they just don't report back.
Aug 04 14:28:59 <X-Fade> If we get them to report back then most of the issues go away.
Aug 04 14:29:00 <achipa> have to hunt down some connectivity issues and away it goes
Aug 04 14:29:04 <lcuk> binary community packages should have a 1000000000 day quarantine ;)
Aug 04 14:29:20 <X-Fade> 10 day quarantine is then not such a big deal. Having a package lingering for months is.
Aug 04 14:29:53 <achipa> the trouble is twofold - one, it's difficult to vote, two, there is no real motivation, apart from karma (which you can earn faster by bitching on talk or blogging)
Aug 04 14:29:54 <lcuk> is it the problem of it being there, or the problem of the listing on the page
Aug 04 14:29:56 <nid0> 10 days still seems to me to be longer than is wholly neccesary, reducing it would help particularly with the minor-update issue
Aug 04 14:30:01 <X-Fade> achipa: Yeah, I think that that app will help.
Aug 04 14:30:07 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Any time someone suggests it they talk about HAM integration, which is silly. But a "HelpMeTest" app people could install, which looks at packages installed from Testing; checks versions and sees if they're voted should a) be simple, and b) help
Aug 04 14:30:31 * mgedmin would love to have an app that said "hey, you've got these packages installed form extras-testing: foo, bar, baz.  Do they work all right?"
Aug 04 14:30:33 * Jaffa should get to push a new Hermes to Extras this afternoon as his quarantine expires :-)
Aug 04 14:30:36 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Yeah, which is what achipa's app does. And there is a script too.
Aug 04 14:30:37 <frals> HAM *shrugs*
Aug 04 14:30:39 <Jaffa> mgedmin++
Aug 04 14:30:56 <Jaffa> X-Fade: achipa's app, no offence, is too heavy and not geared towards this simple reminder use case.
Aug 04 14:30:59 <achipa> Jaffa: kisstester looks at /var/lib/dpkg/whatever and hunts down stuff you installed from testing so it gives the 'feedback on these apps'
Aug 04 14:31:06 <achipa> Jaffa: err.. not THAT app
Aug 04 14:31:09 <frals> got a link to this app?
Aug 04 14:31:11 <X-Fade> Jaffa: No, different app ;)
Aug 04 14:31:17 * Jaffa 's not heard of this
Aug 04 14:31:21 <Jaffa> WTF is "kisstester" ;-)
Aug 04 14:31:29 <achipa> Jaffa: I know it's too heavy, that's why I made a lightweight PyQt purpose-oriented thingie
Aug 04 14:31:29 <nid0> a not-quite ready app :p
Aug 04 14:31:34 <frals> kiss means pee in swedish :/
Aug 04 14:31:45 <achipa> Jaffa: exactly ;)
Aug 04 14:31:46 <X-Fade> frals: Even better :)
Aug 04 14:31:55 <achipa> frals: perfect !
Aug 04 14:32:03 <Jaffa> achipa: Sounds like exactly what mgedmin and I are describing, n'est pas?
Aug 04 14:32:49 <achipa> yep, though it's still half scraping, half REST, which makes it a bit kooky
Aug 04 14:33:01 <achipa> but as said, expect it real soon (TM)
Aug 04 14:33:11 <X-Fade> achipa: As long as it works, we can improve on it later.
Aug 04 14:33:36 <X-Fade> also: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/testingsquad-list/2010-August/000103.html
Aug 04 14:33:48 <achipa> oh, it's easy to think of improvements - like throw a notification of 'did you know you can help by providing feedback on these apps ?'
Aug 04 14:34:42 <achipa> X-Fade: yes, noted, I already stole an idea or two from there (Pythonized, of course)
Aug 04 14:35:02 <X-Fade> Yeah, at least the ideas are good.
Aug 04 14:35:23 <achipa> my only fear is that people will not understand the difference between the testing tumbing and the extras star system
Aug 04 14:35:41 <achipa> i.e. they will happily vote down because it's not pretty enough and sorts
Aug 04 14:35:43 <X-Fade> achipa: Come up with a nice text and I'll add it to the interface.
Aug 04 14:36:39 <achipa> frals: btw kiss means small in hungarian, while we are language-geeking
Aug 04 14:36:56 <nid0> I dont think any text for it is going to stop people thumbing because they like/dont like it if it's particularly easy to thumb
Aug 04 14:37:22 <nid0> is the app likely to support commenting, and if so can it force a comment if an app's downvoted?
Aug 04 14:37:27 <achipa> nid0: my current approact is that you have to check a few checkboxes and that unlocks the tumb
Aug 04 14:37:38 <achipa> it's still fairly easy (i.e. no login or typing involved)
Aug 04 14:37:52 <achipa> but makes it hard to just thumb-through without noticing what you're asked of
Aug 04 14:38:00 <achipa> we'll see if it works out
Aug 04 14:38:12 <achipa> s/tumb/thumb/
Aug 04 14:39:03 <achipa> X-Fade: did you by any change talk to bergie about exposing the vote stuff via REST ?
Aug 04 14:39:20 <achipa> s/change/chance/
Aug 04 14:39:21 <infobot> achipa meant: X-Fade: did you by any chance talk to bergie about exposing the vote stuff via REST ?
Aug 04 14:39:28 <achipa> wtf is wrong with this kbd...
Aug 04 14:39:56 <X-Fade> achipa: He just went away on holiday, but I'll ask around in his company.
Aug 04 14:40:39 <achipa> X-Fade: okay... I mean, it works via scraping, but (obviously) I'd much prefer REST...
Aug 04 14:42:36 <GAN900> Packages is slooooow
Aug 04 14:42:56 <DocScrutinizer> (thumbing) there's a nice wikipage about QA - link could not hurt when thumbing
Aug 04 14:42:59 <GAN900> How is it every time we get a server "upgrade" it's back to its old speed in 3 weeks?
Aug 04 14:43:16 * GAN900 bets X-Fade is just restarting the N900s. . . .
Aug 04 14:43:59 <Jaffa> achipa: Release early, release often.
Aug 04 14:44:06 <DocScrutinizer> (thumbing) also maybe supertesters should be able to revert 'normal' votes of 'noobs'
Aug 04 14:44:15 <Jaffa> achipa: I'd happily help with notifications and UI and stuff as a chance to play with more Qt and scratch an itch.
Aug 04 14:44:21 <Jaffa> achipa: I imagine mgedmin's similar.
Aug 04 14:44:49 <DocScrutinizer> (thumbing) making comment in addition to thumb vote mandatory also would be a good idea
Aug 04 14:44:58 <Jaffa> achipa: I keep feeling guilty about not testing enough stuff and a daily/weekly prod via a notification or something
Aug 04 14:45:01 <mgedmin> +1 for comments
Aug 04 14:45:05 <achipa> Jaffa: I would, but I was using some PyQt features not currently available in extras, so it's easier to rewrite those than suffer through the whole PyQt update cycle
Aug 04 14:45:14 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: it is so
Aug 04 14:45:16 <mgedmin> I'm not only feeling guilty for not testing stuff
Aug 04 14:45:25 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: ??
Aug 04 14:45:27 <mgedmin> I'm also feeling guilty for talking about mandatory testing early on
Aug 04 14:45:31 <achipa> to unlock either a thumb up, or down, you need to do something
Aug 04 14:45:48 <mgedmin> achipa, what version control system do you use?
Aug 04 14:46:12 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: you lost me on that one
Aug 04 14:46:26 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: look there: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/starhash-enabler/0.2/
Aug 04 14:46:53 <achipa> mgedmin: git
Aug 04 14:47:06 <mgedmin> is the code available publically?
Aug 04 14:47:08 <DocScrutinizer> achipa: 8 votes, 2 comments. (one of those is even 'anonymous' [by me, accidentally] though it's allegedly not possible)
Aug 04 14:47:10 <achipa> did not push it to gitorious, that is also on the todo :S
Aug 04 14:47:16 <achipa> will be a busy night tonight :)
Aug 04 14:47:40 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: It was for a short while last week while I implemented the testingsquad-comments list mailer.
Aug 04 14:47:48 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: ah, on the interface, that's X-Fade territory, I was thinking you were referring to my baby
Aug 04 14:47:51 <DocScrutinizer> aah ok
Aug 04 14:47:59 <mgedmin> achipa, ping me when it's there; I'll try to give it a spin and see if I can contribute any patches
Aug 04 14:48:11 <mgedmin> e.g. help make it work with pyqt in currently in extras
Aug 04 14:48:13 <achipa> mgedmin: aye
Aug 04 14:48:18 <mgedmin> will be a chance for me to learn pyqt ;)
Aug 04 14:48:36 <achipa> that's the idea, let's get this crackin'
Aug 04 14:48:55 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: is there any support for the supertester tripple weight on the way?
Aug 04 14:49:10 <X-Fade> DocScrutinizer: ?
Aug 04 14:49:16 <DocScrutinizer> or maybe even implemented?
Aug 04 14:49:27 <X-Fade> Supertesters only have influence after 20 days.
Aug 04 14:49:36 <nid0> it already applies, but it only becomes a factor after 20 days
Aug 04 14:50:06 <DocScrutinizer> starting off when?
Aug 04 14:50:15 <nid0> ?
Aug 04 14:50:21 <X-Fade> If twice the quarantine passes, supertesters need to agree with at least 3 persons.
Aug 04 14:50:44 <DocScrutinizer> tester->supertester event = startingpoint for +20?
Aug 04 14:50:55 <nid0> no, package promoted to testing
Aug 04 14:51:05 <nid0> its just a 20 day quarantine instead of 10
Aug 04 14:51:06 <DocScrutinizer> umm
Aug 04 14:51:07 <achipa> DocScrutinizer: 10 additional days to the original (20 in total)
Aug 04 14:51:21 * DocScrutinizer feels dizzy
Aug 04 14:51:21 <nid0> after 20 days a package will unlock on the strength of 3 supertester votes, without needing the other 7
Aug 04 14:51:36 <DocScrutinizer> oh
Aug 04 14:51:39 <achipa> just so supertesters dont monopolize - they're there to jog blocke packages, not to trump other testers
Aug 04 14:51:40 <X-Fade> So when a package hasn't gotten enough love from the general public in 20 days.
Aug 04 14:51:51 <DocScrutinizer> i c
Aug 04 14:52:21 <DocScrutinizer> sounds sensible
Aug 04 14:52:41 <DocScrutinizer> this already in effect and working?
Aug 04 14:52:42 <X-Fade> And they have to agree too. Or at least have a 3 vote differnce.
Aug 04 14:52:49 <X-Fade> Yes.
Aug 04 14:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> k
Aug 04 14:53:39 <DocScrutinizer> so one supertester vote is just one vote, aiui
Aug 04 14:53:43 <X-Fade> You can see this working in the qa list btw.
Aug 04 14:53:47 <X-Fade> http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/
Aug 04 14:53:51 <DocScrutinizer> 2 are 2, 3 are plenty
Aug 04 14:53:53 <X-Fade> The green karma ones.
Aug 04 14:54:10 <X-Fade> Those are unlocked, but some don't have 10 votes.
Aug 04 14:54:26 <achipa> is kojacker present here under some alias ?
Aug 04 14:55:00 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, I'll go for another 2 'normal' votes then
Aug 04 14:55:22 <DocScrutinizer> rather than 2 more supertestser votes plus a 10 day penalty
Aug 04 14:56:14 <DocScrutinizer> please, could somebody have a 5min spare time to check and vote http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/starhash-enabler/0.2/ ? Thanks
Aug 04 14:56:28 <nid0> ill check that shortly
Aug 04 14:56:35 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Aug 04 14:57:12 * mgedmin would, but /me never ever used those *# codes and doesn't know what good they're for with his 3g-data-only sim card
Aug 04 14:58:13 <Jaffa> mgedmin: ditto
Aug 04 14:58:51 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: doesn't matter. You're not supposed to check function of the codes at all - in the end this is nokia's dialer's domain. *#-enabler only does a *config* and that's all that needs to be checked. It has to install and deinstall cleanly, and not bork the system
Aug 04 15:00:19 <mgedmin> mc in maemo has no support for browsing .deb files :(
Aug 04 15:00:30 <DocScrutinizer> ugh
Aug 04 15:02:13 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=762487#post762487
Aug 04 15:03:02 <mgedmin> DocScrutinizer, silly question, why killall -9 rather than a simple killall rtcom-call-ui?
Aug 04 15:03:53 <DocScrutinizer> umm, actually MohammadAG came up with this, and it seems it need -9 otherwise doesn't feel like reloading
Aug 04 15:04:02 * mgedmin grumbles
Aug 04 15:04:17 <MohammadAG> why not -9?
Aug 04 15:04:24 <MohammadAG> it deserves a kill anyways
Aug 04 15:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> rtcom-dial-ui is really nasty
Aug 04 15:04:34 <mgedmin> killing with -9 is just impolite with no fair warning beforehands
Aug 04 15:04:52 <MohammadAG> you get what you give, rtcom-call-ui is impolite
Aug 04 15:04:58 <DocScrutinizer> and it restarts cleanly, and saves config files immediately, not on process exit
Aug 04 15:05:11 <mgedmin> I want pstree for maemo
Aug 04 15:05:32 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: coreutils-gnu?
Aug 04 15:06:03 <mgedmin> really? on my lappy it's from psmisc
Aug 04 15:06:12 <DocScrutinizer> maybe
Aug 04 15:06:17 * DocScrutinizer shrugs
Aug 04 15:06:31 <mgedmin> of course psmisc conflicts with busybox symlinks and mp-fremantle-generic-pr
Aug 04 15:06:36 <mgedmin> so I've a choice: pstree or working SSU
Aug 04 15:06:39 <DocScrutinizer> messybox ps is braindead anyway
Aug 04 15:06:59 <mgedmin> I guess what I want to find out is if rtcomm-call-ui is run under dsme
Aug 04 15:07:21 <DocScrutinizer> looks like, from behaviour
Aug 04 15:07:38 <DocScrutinizer> also from logics
Aug 04 15:07:51 <mgedmin> and wasn't there a nice way to tell dsme to restart something, or am I dreaming?
Aug 04 15:08:06 <mgedmin> oh who cares, kill -9 as long as it works
Aug 04 15:08:28 <tobis87> http://sial.org/howto/shell/kill-9/
Aug 04 15:09:04 <mgedmin> so, what does dpkg/apt/HAM do when a postrm script exits with 5?
Aug 04 15:09:39 <slonopotamus> mgedmin: initiate self-destruction?
Aug 04 15:09:44 <DocScrutinizer> ooh the 5 still in?
Aug 04 15:09:49 <mgedmin> 'return 5'
Aug 04 15:10:01 <mgedmin> and the "No file! Nothing to uninstall. Quit." message is not very user-friendly
Aug 04 15:10:07 <DocScrutinizer> on non-0 it seems to throw some error and doesn't count the pkg as installed
Aug 04 15:10:23 <DocScrutinizer> anyway should never happen
Aug 04 15:10:28 <mgedmin> ha ha ha
Aug 04 15:10:39 <mgedmin> install your app, flash eMMC, uninstall your app
Aug 04 15:10:58 <DocScrutinizer> it's like the else case, a catchall for impossible situations
Aug 04 15:10:59 <mgedmin> not that this wasn't asking for trouble (flash eMMC without flashing rootfs?), but still
Aug 04 15:11:00 <lcuk> you wouldnt get back into UI if you did that anyway
Aug 04 15:11:18 <lcuk> mgedmin, system would fail before you got a chance to open ham ;)
Aug 04 15:11:29 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: won't interfere, the file it works on is on rootfs
Aug 04 15:11:32 <mgedmin> I just want to make sure the package won't be uninstallable if someone does an rm .osso/call-ui.ini
Aug 04 15:11:34 <DocScrutinizer> not on eMMC
Aug 04 15:11:47 <mgedmin> /home/user/.osso/call-ui.ini is in /home, which is on the eMMC device
Aug 04 15:12:07 <DocScrutinizer> ooh right
Aug 04 15:12:23 <mgedmin> I don't know if flashing writes to the whole device or just the /home/user/MyDocs partition
Aug 04 15:12:24 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, coffee still not any effect today :-S
Aug 04 15:12:24 <achipa> gah.... I can't believe Hardy ships with PyQt 4.3...
Aug 04 15:12:28 <mgedmin> now I'm doubting myself
Aug 04 15:12:39 <achipa> anyway, here's the idea:
Aug 04 15:12:53 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: whole device, but then you NEED to flash rootfs after flashing eMMC
Aug 04 15:12:55 <achipa> (sans maemo style, obviously)
Aug 04 15:12:57 <achipa> http://imagebin.ca/view/f5t3Zp.html
Aug 04 15:13:06 <nid0> DocScrutinizer: package tested
Aug 04 15:13:11 <mgedmin> DocScrutinizer: yes, stupid scenario, let's forget about it
Aug 04 15:13:12 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Aug 04 15:13:14 <DocScrutinizer> thanks
Aug 04 15:13:31 <mgedmin> but still, don't make the package uninstallable if I manually remove the config file
Aug 04 15:13:43 <DocScrutinizer> I'll check it
Aug 04 15:14:02 <DocScrutinizer> the return 5 was meant to go away
Aug 04 15:14:14 <DocScrutinizer> overseen rubbish
Aug 04 15:14:18 <th3hate> What benefits symbian^3 gain from being open source?
Aug 04 15:14:28 <DocScrutinizer> thanks for pointing at it
Aug 04 15:15:08 <DocScrutinizer> but hey, that's what testers are meant for :-D
Aug 04 15:17:05 <DocScrutinizer> Status: Promotion unlocked, waiting for maintainter to promote
Aug 04 15:17:06 <achipa> th3hate: what does any software gain from being open source ?
Aug 04 15:17:20 <th3hate> Well
Aug 04 15:17:20 <jacekowski> emm, nothing
Aug 04 15:17:27 <th3hate> community will be able to contribute to it
Aug 04 15:17:30 <DocScrutinizer> now if only this idiotic Konqueror would show the button to promote
Aug 04 15:18:11 <jacekowski> th3hate: people that can support projects in any usefull way don't have time for that
Aug 04 15:18:15 <jacekowski> th3hate: not a lot at least
Aug 04 15:18:22 <mgedmin> th3hate, debugging is easier: you can see what the code does
Aug 04 15:19:14 <th3hate> So symbian being open souce has no benefits for end user
Aug 04 15:19:15 <th3hate> right?
Aug 04 15:19:38 <th3hate> only for developers maybe
Aug 04 15:21:46 <DocScrutinizer> for me as an end-user not using symbian at all, it quite obviously has no benefit whatsoever :-P
Aug 04 15:23:07 <TomaszD> has anyone thought about patching Nokia's kernel with this http://lkml.org/lkml/2010/8/1/40 :P
Aug 04 15:24:39 <achipa> th3hate: everything that is benefiting the devs in the end benefits the end-users, too
Aug 04 15:25:07 <MohammadAG> TomaszD, no, but it might be worth a go
Aug 04 15:25:14 <TomaszD> mhm
Aug 04 15:25:46 <th3hate> achipa: what exactly is open source in maemo?
Aug 04 15:26:10 <th3hate> most drivers contain closed bits
Aug 04 15:26:14 <MohammadAG> ~openness
Aug 04 15:26:15 <infobot> openness is probably http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html
Aug 04 15:26:27 <MohammadAG> that is what's open/closed ^
Aug 04 15:26:58 <th3hate> that's what im looking for thanks
Aug 04 15:27:42 <MohammadAG> TomaszD, apply patches, see if the N900 boots up, ???, profit
Aug 04 15:28:03 <achipa> th3hate: drivers are a bit specific, tho, that doesn't really apply to symbian either
Aug 04 15:28:06 <TomaszD> I'm just throwing it out there, I need a working phone
Aug 04 15:28:15 <nid0> DocScrutinizer: wasnt me that found the uninstall flaw
Aug 04 15:28:45 <th3hate> what are the percentages near app names?
Aug 04 15:28:59 <th3hate> browser-mozilla (60%)
Aug 04 15:29:03 <DocScrutinizer> nid0: oops for undue credit
Aug 04 15:29:03 <svuorela> win 24
Aug 04 15:29:06 <svuorela> fail
Aug 04 15:29:11 <nid0> ill allow it!
Aug 04 15:29:23 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: sorry for missing/false credit
Aug 04 15:30:01 <mgedmin> what credit?
Aug 04 15:30:44 <mgedmin> are there $10,000,000 TEN MILLION US DOLLARS about to arrive in my offshore bank account?
Aug 04 15:31:02 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Aug 04 15:31:23 <MohammadAG> th3hate, read the columns duh
Aug 04 15:38:03 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: pooh, better now? :-D
Aug 04 15:38:18 <mgedmin> DocScrutinizer: seriously, what are you talking about?
Aug 04 15:38:25 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Aug 04 15:38:26 <mgedmin> there's some off-channel communication here that I'm missing
Aug 04 15:38:37 <mgedmin> t.m.o? m.o/p?
Aug 04 15:38:51 <DocScrutinizer> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/starhash-enabler/0.2/  comments there
Aug 04 15:40:33 <E0x> nice Game Gripper !
Aug 04 15:40:37 <mgedmin> that page reminds me of http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/css-is-awesome-20090407-142244.jpg
Aug 04 15:41:10 <cehteh> anyone with the power kernel noticed that filming doesnt work ?
Aug 04 15:42:24 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: LOL, nice one
Aug 04 15:42:36 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: and yes, looks quite similar
Aug 04 15:45:15 <DocScrutinizer> btw a special thanks to MohammadAG who also pointed to the nonsense of 'return 5' but I was to puzzled to remove it immediately
Aug 04 15:47:14 <DocScrutinizer> on a sidenote: where are the specs about what HAM is supposed to do on certain return codes?
Aug 04 15:49:06 <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: power kernel is known to conflict with fcam and blessn900(?)
Aug 04 15:49:13 <alterego> Yes
Aug 04 15:49:34 <DocScrutinizer> not surprising as those come with kernel modules
Aug 04 15:49:44 <tobis87> WTF? There is even a kill -9 song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4
Aug 04 15:49:45 <cehteh> yes there was some fix proposed ... prolly not implmeneted yet
Aug 04 15:50:01 <cehteh> err.. bless900 works with power kernel
Aug 04 15:50:35 <cehteh> problem is that the stock video app doesnt work anymore since yesterdays power-kernel update
Aug 04 15:51:04 <DocScrutinizer> muhaha
Aug 04 15:51:14 <cehteh> photos are working
Aug 04 15:51:18 <DocScrutinizer> have fun sorting it out
Aug 04 15:51:38 <cehteh> i just wait .. dont need video
Aug 04 15:51:47 <DocScrutinizer> (me shudders considering implications for future hostmode kernels)
Aug 04 15:52:47 <DocScrutinizer> especially since you bet hostmode support in kernel never will go upstream as of Nokia's notion of upstream
Aug 04 15:52:55 <cehteh> prolly phone doesnt work either with power kernel but no one noticed yet :P
Aug 04 15:53:23 <cehteh> hehe i dont think there is any upstream .. good bye nokia
Aug 04 15:53:43 <DocScrutinizer> wouldn't be surprised. Those nerds are too busy drooling over their overclocked duke nukem
Aug 04 15:54:04 <mgedmin> DocScrutinizer, I think http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html is the only spec for that
Aug 04 15:54:11 <mgedmin> and it only says "zero if ok, non-zero if baaaad"
Aug 04 15:54:33 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: you're incredible :-) thanks a lot
Aug 04 15:55:14 <cehteh> anyone ever tried to overclock the device to 3Ghz while dunked in liquid nitrogen? :)
Aug 04 15:55:38 <mgedmin> there are some graphs about how those scripts get called in what order etc: http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/MaintainerScripts.html
Aug 04 15:55:41 <mgedmin> the graphs look kinda scary
Aug 04 15:56:03 <DocScrutinizer> maybe they tried, but for sure epic fail. Device won't work under such environmental conditions
Aug 04 15:56:48 <DocScrutinizer> and guaranteed fun with LiIon cell XP
Aug 04 15:57:41 <cehteh> mgedmin: eww :)
Aug 04 15:58:02 <cehteh> DocScrutinizer: you provided the instruction how to operate it without battery :P
Aug 04 15:58:06 <DocScrutinizer> btw even if the LCD is a low-temperature spec'ed type, it won't really show anything useful while swimming in liquid N2
Aug 04 15:58:19 <achipa> Jaffa: so, are we a go for the letter ?
Aug 04 15:58:26 <cehteh> so if anyone tries, you provided the groundwork!
Aug 04 15:58:43 <cehteh> who cares .. we have ssh
Aug 04 15:58:58 <DocScrutinizer> yep, that *might* actually work
Aug 04 15:59:05 <frals> DocScrutinizer: it has a lovely cord to the LCD, no? ;-)
Aug 04 15:59:15 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Aug 04 15:59:34 <DocScrutinizer> do NOT slide while frozen!
Aug 04 16:00:01 <DocScrutinizer> will break like a tulip under the hammer
Aug 04 16:00:16 <Jaffa> achipa: I think so, yes.
Aug 04 16:03:04 <DocScrutinizer> anyway - for a less funy comment - it's highly unlkely any of the mem_et-al interfaces will work correctly on 3GHz timing
Aug 04 16:03:30 <DocScrutinizer> not tomention flash itself
Aug 04 16:03:59 <th3hate> pdf viewer in maemo is 100% open source, does that mean we can improve it? like modify and add stuff to it?
Aug 04 16:04:13 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not even sure if writing flash works at all on those low temperatures
Aug 04 16:04:48 <DocScrutinizer> there are quantum tunneling effects involved - those might change drastically on low temp
Aug 04 16:06:13 <achipa> Jaffa: posted
Aug 04 16:06:48 <GAN900> achipa, which one and where?
Aug 04 16:06:53 * DocScrutinizer ponders idly to which temperature you need to warm up a flash storage chip for it to lose all bit holding electrical charges
Aug 04 16:07:09 <achipa> GAN900: the python one, in the council blog
Aug 04 16:07:25 <GAN900> achipa, ah, excellent.
Aug 04 16:08:24 <DocScrutinizer> (break like a tulip) same appies to kbd and touchpanel
Aug 04 16:08:29 <DocScrutinizer> applies
Aug 04 16:08:49 <DocScrutinizer> meh, I should abandon that rather nonsensical topic
Aug 04 16:10:11 <lcuk> since putting your hand into liquid nitrogen to press the keys TS would be inadvisable at best, I think a test exclusing functioning remote access would be more beneficial ;)
Aug 04 16:15:47 <crashanddie> D-Iivil_Work: I replied to your TMO PM
Aug 04 16:36:22 <RST38h> moo all
Aug 04 16:36:33 <slonopotamus> smth like that, yep
Aug 04 16:38:49 <oKtosiTe> In MicroB, is there a way to see image tooltips/rollover text? If so, how?
Aug 04 16:39:14 <Corsac> oKtosiTe: just use the mouse cursor
Aug 04 16:39:54 <Corsac> oKtosiTe: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures#Web_Browser_Gestures
Aug 04 16:39:56 <oKtosiTe> Corsac, it just sits there.
Aug 04 16:40:32 <oKtosiTe> Corsac, I know how to get the cursor, thanks.
Aug 04 16:40:49 <Corsac> works for me
Aug 04 16:40:59 <Corsac> well, it worked for me at least, I didn't test recently
Aug 04 16:41:07 <Corsac> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7377 :)
Aug 04 16:41:08 <povbot> Bug 7377: image tooltips are truncated
Aug 04 16:42:52 <oKtosiTe> It's particularly annoying while reading online comics, because the tooltip often contains a large part of the joke.
Aug 04 16:44:38 <oKtosiTe> ok, that's already in the bug.
Aug 04 16:46:22 <mgedmin> ooh, the xkcd bug!
Aug 04 16:46:27 * mgedmin goes to vote
Aug 04 16:47:23 <mgedmin> timeless is strongly against essays in tooltips :(
Aug 04 16:48:18 <oKtosiTe> I'm not getting any tooltip at all though.
Aug 04 16:49:06 <crashanddie> mgedmin: eh?
Aug 04 16:49:22 <mgedmin> crashanddie, comment #3 in bug 7377
Aug 04 16:49:23 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7377 image tooltips are truncated
Aug 04 16:49:35 <crashanddie> oKtosiTe: make cursor appear, and hover iamge
Aug 04 16:49:46 <mgedmin> hover, shmover
Aug 04 16:50:01 <oKtosiTe> crashanddie, that's what I'm doing.
Aug 04 16:50:12 <mgedmin> drag the finger from off-screen near the bottom towards the right, then, without releasing, drag your finger on top of the image and don't release
Aug 04 16:50:39 <lcuk> xkcd 775: She's a perfectly nice lady from a beautiful city, and there's no reason to be mean just because she thinks a quarterback is a river in Egypt.
Aug 04 16:50:58 <mgedmin> or http://m.xkcd.com
Aug 04 16:51:01 <lcuk> since this bug entirely revolves around xkcd and it invariably gets mentioned about the current one ;)
Aug 04 16:51:10 <lcuk> mgedmin, lots come in here direct from n900
Aug 04 16:51:13 <lcuk> ;)
Aug 04 16:52:23 <oKtosiTe> lcuk: thanks, lol
Aug 04 16:52:57 <oKtosiTe> mgedmin, got it. wow that's counterintuitive
Aug 04 16:53:18 <mgedmin> yeah, I only got it by trial and error
Aug 04 16:53:22 <mgedmin> (and frustration)
Aug 04 16:54:29 <oKtosiTe> mgedmin, and thanks for the link, that works.
Aug 04 16:54:52 <ZR13> Hi
Aug 04 16:55:10 <lcuk> mgedmin, ++ at m.xkcd.com as well
Aug 04 16:56:13 <ZR13> I am trying to install free heroes 2 on N900. I installend the program. But now i don't know where and how to copy the needed files from CD.
Aug 04 16:58:39 <oKtosiTe> lcuk, mgedmin: thanks to you both, that should be all for now, bye.
Aug 04 16:58:42 <TomaszD> hey guys, do we have anything similar to this on maemo http://lifehacker.com/5604248/android2cloud-opens-urls-from-your-phone-in-chrome ?
Aug 04 17:00:13 <hrw|gone> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libpyside0.4_0.4.0-1maemo1_armel.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/pkgconfig/pyside.pc', which is also in package libpyside0.3
Aug 04 17:00:17 <hrw|gone> known?
Aug 04 17:00:47 <Jaffa> TomaszD: Apart from 1) Open X Terminal; 2) do ssh andrew@mybox firefox <paste>?
Aug 04 17:01:05 <crashanddie> mgedmin: I commented on the bug
Aug 04 17:01:14 <mgedmin> TomaszD, the closest I've come to that is copying and pasting the URL through IM, using telepathy-salut
Aug 04 17:01:15 <crashanddie> mgedmin: and probably going to piss off timeless too :P
Aug 04 17:02:45 <TomaszD> ok, so there isn't, thanks
Aug 04 17:03:47 <ZR13> anyone alive?
Aug 04 17:03:57 <crashanddie_> ZR13: we're all dying, slowly
Aug 04 17:04:18 <SpeedEvil> not all of us.
Aug 04 17:04:21 * SpeedEvil shoots ZR13.
Aug 04 17:04:52 <ZR13> You shoot me you really shot me!
Aug 04 17:05:15 * crashanddie_ puts another two bullets in ZR13's head.
Aug 04 17:05:18 <crashanddie_> Just for safe measure
Aug 04 17:05:22 <crashanddie> test
Aug 04 17:05:25 <crashanddie> oh, fancy
Aug 04 17:05:34 <crashanddie> two connections with the same IRC client
Aug 04 17:05:44 <crashanddie_> w00t
Aug 04 17:08:12 <crashanddie> brb
Aug 04 17:17:15 <lmoura> hrw|gone, we forgot to make libpyside0.4 replace libpyside0.3. Sorry
Aug 04 17:18:48 <RST38h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTIQH48ynmA <=== outside, right now
Aug 04 17:19:15 <oKtosiTe> crashanddie, thanks for adding to the "xkcd bug". Didn't have the time right now, but it's nice to see something happened.
Aug 04 17:22:44 <VDVsx> RST38h, lol, 2 days ago the smoke was visible here :D
Aug 04 17:24:50 <hrw|gone> lmoura: happens
Aug 04 17:29:42 <crashanddie> VDVsx: barbecue?
Aug 04 17:31:21 <frals> bet its all part of a great scheme from russia to reconquer finland
Aug 04 17:31:29 <frals> "lets smoke 'em out!"
Aug 04 17:31:44 <timeless> the great russian smokeout?
Aug 04 17:32:25 <DocScrutinizer> X-Fade: it's been you who managed the fixing of linewraps etc on http://maemo.org/packages/view ? Please have a look at  http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/starhash-enabler , same issue once again there
Aug 04 17:32:51 <timeless> .. http://www.quitsmoking.com/kopykit/reports/smokeout.htm
Aug 04 17:33:12 <DocScrutinizer> embedded <foo> not displayed, due to missing escaping to &lt; &gt;, no linewraps, etc
Aug 04 17:34:27 <DocScrutinizer> compare http://maemo.org/packages/view/starhash-enabler/ layout to http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/starhash-enabler layout
Aug 04 17:34:52 <jacekowski> hmm, i would abuse that just for sake of abusing it
Aug 04 17:34:54 <DocScrutinizer> should I reopen the ticket?
Aug 04 17:35:39 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, use the top panel, try to edit the description
Aug 04 17:35:48 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Aug 04 17:36:24 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Aug 04 17:36:37 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: thanks :-)
Aug 04 17:36:42 <frals> DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG51: it wont stick
Aug 04 17:37:19 <frals> unless it has been changed not to fetch from controlfile every 30min recently
Aug 04 17:37:39 <RST38h> Hmmm, qwerty12 went bonkers =)
Aug 04 17:38:25 <DocScrutinizer> frals: :-S
Aug 04 17:38:30 * RST38h especially likes the massive butthurt in the comments
Aug 04 17:38:52 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: errm yep
Aug 04 17:39:21 <RST38h> VDVsx: Nothing *but* smoke here. 38oC, no sun, completely unbreathable
Aug 04 17:39:53 <frals> considering how windy it was when i walked home today i suspect we will have plenty of smoke here in HEL soon :P
Aug 04 17:39:53 <MohammadAG51> oC != °C
Aug 04 17:40:10 <RST38h> Mohammad <-- a wikipedian
Aug 04 17:41:07 <MohammadAG51> rather a unit nazi
Aug 04 17:42:56 * mgedmin is happy to see MohammadAG51 is using U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN correctly; some clueless people out there are known to use U+00BA MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR instead
Aug 04 17:43:26 <MohammadAG51> i just used the one in arrow+ctrl
Aug 04 17:43:29 <MohammadAG51> xD
Aug 04 17:43:49 <hrw|gone> ° = AltGr+Shift+0 here
Aug 04 17:44:06 <MohammadAG51> it's in the sym menu
Aug 04 17:44:10 <MohammadAG51> on the N900
Aug 04 17:44:14 <hrw|gone> ah
Aug 04 17:44:28 <RST38h> [state-of-factly] Two wikipedians.
Aug 04 17:44:54 <hrw|gone> bye
Aug 04 17:44:56 <RST38h> Just use plain ASCII, you punks.
Aug 04 17:45:08 * MohammadAG51 requests RST38h be gone into the depths of freenode
Aug 04 17:45:14 <RST38h> ASCII is what computer gods have originally given you
Aug 04 17:45:35 <MohammadAG51> RST38h, actually, they gave us binary
Aug 04 17:45:48 <RST38h> No. Binary has been here to begin with.
Aug 04 17:46:02 <MohammadAG51> Kick RST38h, he has disobeyed me!
Aug 04 17:46:11 <mgedmin> didn't EBCDIC predate ASCII?
Aug 04 17:46:14 * RST38h moos woefully
Aug 04 17:46:15 <mgedmin> speaking of "originally"
Aug 04 17:46:48 <RST38h> mgedmin: EBCDIC is not a char set, it is IBM's attempt to do US government's contract to implement computer encryption
Aug 04 17:46:55 <RST38h> ;)
Aug 04 17:47:06 <MohammadAG51> three wikipedians
Aug 04 17:47:15 <MohammadAG51> zing
Aug 04 17:47:37 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, still no idea how to escape friggin BBcodes like "*" for emphasis
Aug 04 17:47:54 <MohammadAG51> BB code?
Aug 04 17:48:01 <MohammadAG51> there is an escape for it afaik
Aug 04 17:48:03 <RST38h> Doc: IRCII does not have them
Aug 04 17:48:24 <RST38h> Shows everything in plain, non-bold, non-italiced ASCII
Aug 04 17:49:07 <DocScrutinizer> look there: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/starhash-enabler/  *61<number>*<time-i  should read **61*<number>*<time-i
Aug 04 17:49:14 <MohammadAG51> that's not a forum lol
Aug 04 17:49:33 <DocScrutinizer> but it's handled like it were
Aug 04 17:51:09 <VDVsx> RST38h, is qwerty still around ? :D I thought he was a ifanboy now :P
Aug 04 17:51:33 <RST38h> VDVsx: He can't even accept PMs on tmo
Aug 04 17:51:41 <MohammadAG51> email him
Aug 04 17:51:58 <RST38h> VDVsx: But it does not look good. I doubt maemo is the main issue there.
Aug 04 17:52:17 <VDVsx> drugs ? :P
Aug 04 17:52:22 <MohammadAG51> LOL
Aug 04 17:55:58 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-08-04 00:47:50] <DocScrutinizer> one more indication he forgot his Litium
Aug 04 17:56:00 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-08-04 00:48:12] <DocScrutinizer> and/or haloperidol
Aug 04 17:58:17 <Stskeeps> uhm, its a bit rude to badmouth him like that. he's done a shitload of good work over the years.
Aug 04 17:58:43 <DocScrutinizer> that's not badmouthing, more the opposite
Aug 04 17:59:37 <DocScrutinizer> I honestly hope this action was out of some pathological state of mind, and not his usual way to act
Aug 04 17:59:50 <toggles_w> I'm going to miss him, helped me out a lot with bme on mer
Aug 04 18:00:29 <DocScrutinizer> actually I respect his shitload of good work and contributions
Aug 04 18:00:53 <Stskeeps> i'm going to miss having him around and will give him a poke if i come by london
Aug 04 18:01:01 <toggles_w> he is accepting emails, I talked to him today
Aug 04 18:01:23 <Stskeeps> yeah i know
Aug 04 18:02:26 <DocScrutinizer> probably burnout syndrome
Aug 04 18:03:14 <DocScrutinizer> seen frequently in exhausting communities like maemo
Aug 04 18:05:42 <E0x> nokia burn it
Aug 04 18:06:42 <DocScrutinizer> hmm nokia faithfully following http://2600hertz.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/meego-destroy-in-6-steps/ helps a lot for sure
Aug 04 18:06:42 <svuorela> win 23
Aug 04 18:06:44 <svuorela> fail
Aug 04 18:07:25 <RST38h> Stskeeps: most items in his rant are essentially correct.
Aug 04 18:07:42 <Stskeeps> RST38h: did i say i was disagrreeing?
Aug 04 18:08:50 <VDVsx> Stskeeps, but what happened to him ? (I'm completely out)
Aug 04 18:09:11 <Zucca> Ok. I've read that this new charger standard, with micro USB connection, specifies that a device accepts usb charge-only input as charger if D-pins are sorted. Otherwise the host must know how to comminicate with the device (using D-pins) like a PC. Then if this is true a device asks for more current to start chraging. Is this right?
Aug 04 18:10:05 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Aug 04 18:10:25 <RST38h> VDVsx: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59700
Aug 04 18:10:33 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: think he had enough, tbh
Aug 04 18:11:02 <Jaffa> Haven't we all?
Aug 04 18:11:02 <E0x> DocScrutinizer: that was funny and the same time sad
Aug 04 18:11:13 <E0x> i am wrong ?
Aug 04 18:11:35 <DocScrutinizer> eowhat exactly are referring to?
Aug 04 18:11:38 <RST38h> Stskeeps: This way, there won't be any Maemo developers left by the time Meego device is announced
Aug 04 18:11:49 <Stskeeps> RST38h: not disagreeing
Aug 04 18:11:50 <Jaffa> I think the voraciousness of a rant is directly proportional to the likelihood of the person coming back within 6-12 months ;-)
Aug 04 18:11:52 <DocScrutinizer> E0x: what exactly are referring to?
Aug 04 18:11:59 <Zucca> Because I have a lithium battery pack that has usb A (female) port. I have to use "old" charger plug with this battery pack and plug it into the old-charger-to-micro-usb adapter (came with my N900) to charge my N900 using this battery pack.
Aug 04 18:12:07 <RST38h> Jaffa: Possible, but not given.
Aug 04 18:12:28 <E0x>  http://2600hertz.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/meego-destroy-in-6-steps/
Aug 04 18:12:33 <Zucca> Now this adapter that came with N900 has some sort of voltage regulators.
Aug 04 18:13:05 <Zucca> To the efficiency isn't the best in this case (the adapter get a bit hot as usual).
Aug 04 18:14:00 <Zucca> Now... Is there any possible way to tell N900, via software, to start charging even the D-pins arent sorted?
Aug 04 18:14:03 <DocScrutinizer> Zucca: correct, but I don't see why you have to use that adapter. Short the D+/- in your battery pack and you're done
Aug 04 18:14:12 <konfoo> in that rant step 1 says it all
Aug 04 18:14:40 <DocScrutinizer> Zucca: there is, but that's a domain for jrbme software yet to come
Aug 04 18:15:23 <Zucca> DocScrutinizer: It is safe to do that sorting? I mean will other devices be ok if I charge them?
Aug 04 18:15:52 <DocScrutinizer> E0x: oh that one, yes it's more sad than funny actually, depending on your notion how much of it applies to a particular Company and project in fact
Aug 04 18:16:09 <DocScrutinizer> Zucca: definitely yes
Aug 04 18:16:15 <Zucca> Ok. Thanks.
Aug 04 18:16:19 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Aug 04 18:16:34 <Corsac> grmbl, HAM doesn't want to install MohammadAG51's hildon-desktop
Aug 04 18:16:47 <Zucca> BAsically this battery pack I have isn't made well (same goes for many other USB loader I have)...
Aug 04 18:16:48 <MohammadAG51> it's not in a user/ section
Aug 04 18:16:55 <MohammadAG51> and it's the same version
Aug 04 18:17:42 <Zucca> DocScrutinizer: One more thing... Are those pins sorted to ground or just to each other?
Aug 04 18:18:20 <DocScrutinizer> Zucca: other alternative: carefully open uf a CA-101 cable, cut the white and green wire, and connect the two ends going to micro-USB end
Aug 04 18:18:34 <DocScrutinizer> just to each other
Aug 04 18:18:52 * RST38h wonders what he should do: close the balcony door and suffocate, or leave the door open...and suffocate?
Aug 04 18:19:10 <mortini> RST38h: open & jump!
Aug 04 18:19:18 * mortini offers 3rd solution.
Aug 04 18:19:22 <Corsac> grmbl, isn't sudo gainroot supposed to work? (I always log as root through ssh)
Aug 04 18:19:25 <DocScrutinizer> shoot your head instead - much faster and less painful
Aug 04 18:19:32 <RST38h> The smoke is so thick that I will probably levitate on it
Aug 04 18:19:48 <Stskeeps> RST38h: go to the office? :P
Aug 04 18:19:49 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: ouch, Moscow
Aug 04 18:20:45 <Zucca> Now I just need to open this battery pack... Which doesn't have any screws... :E
Aug 04 18:20:57 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: so same advice I gave to paul fertser goes to you as well: take 4 weeks off for a holiday in Germany
Aug 04 18:21:26 <timeless> corsac: sudo gainroot works once you install rootsh
Aug 04 18:21:34 <timeless> and it's covered in the wiki
Aug 04 18:21:46 <DocScrutinizer> or more terse: root
Aug 04 18:22:18 <Corsac> hmhm, maybe rootsh was not reinstalled after flash
Aug 04 18:22:29 <Corsac> my root password is still valid but rootsh is not installed, so indeed.
Aug 04 18:22:33 <timeless> if you restore from a backup, it should be pulled in
Aug 04 18:22:46 <DocScrutinizer> Corsac: so just ssh 127.0.0.1 ?
Aug 04 18:22:50 <Corsac> and, nice one, files in /etc/sudoers.d are 644
Aug 04 18:23:21 <Corsac> DocScrutinizer: yes, that's how I do it :)
Aug 04 18:23:24 <RST38h> Stskeeps: AC is off in the office
Aug 04 18:23:55 <DocScrutinizer> Corsac: what's wrong with 644?
Aug 04 18:23:59 <RST38h> Doc: Would rather go somewhere else
Aug 04 18:24:14 <RST38h> But yes, 4 weeks vacation should come really handy here
Aug 04 18:24:50 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: start now, before no more planes, trains, and busses leave Moscow
Aug 04 18:24:50 <Corsac> DocScrutinizer: sudoers files aren't usually public
Aug 04 18:24:52 <RST38h> Ok, closing the door, looks like there is no choice
Aug 04 18:25:23 <DocScrutinizer> public read won't hurt, no?
Aug 04 18:25:39 <Stskeeps> RST38h: nice knowing you
Aug 04 18:25:44 <DocScrutinizer> much like /etc/passwd (if used with shadow)
Aug 04 18:26:22 <RST38h> Stskeeps: hey, I still have a few hours left =)
Aug 04 18:26:45 <Corsac> DocScrutinizer: it's just another layer of security, not to let everyone know what commands are allowed to be ru as root
Aug 04 18:26:57 <DocScrutinizer> ack
Aug 04 18:27:14 <Corsac> but in case of a single user phone, that's not exactly where the danger is, I guess
Aug 04 18:27:36 <DocScrutinizer> on my desktop PC it's even root:root 440
Aug 04 18:27:40 <DocScrutinizer> :-o
Aug 04 18:27:46 <Corsac> same here :)
Aug 04 18:28:31 <DocScrutinizer> open a ticket!
Aug 04 18:31:02 <technomike> my IM accounts passwords are not saving and my youtube sharing account isn't saving so each time i restart my n900 i have to input these all again
Aug 04 18:31:18 <technomike> it also causes availability not to be shown
Aug 04 18:31:41 <technomike> its getting annoying now
Aug 04 18:31:48 <technomike> why is this?
Aug 04 18:41:41 <girishr> is the maemo5 wm code open source?
Aug 04 18:42:50 <GAN900> Yes
Aug 04 18:43:39 <girishr> GAN900: it's part of the hildon git repo is it?
Aug 04 18:44:17 <GAN900> Dunno
Aug 04 18:48:37 <girishr> found it
Aug 04 18:51:14 <DocScrutinizer> (backup busily processing /var/lib/ntp/proc/*/*/* - WTF a shiity crappy backup tool with brainf*ckd config is THAT?)
Aug 04 18:51:42 <MohammadAG51> dd would've been better
Aug 04 18:52:00 <MohammadAG51> and faster, you've been talking about backups for 2 days or so :p
Aug 04 18:52:26 <DocScrutinizer> dd would,ve been the way to get a inconsistent fs image, when used on a mounted active partition
Aug 04 18:52:50 <MohammadAG51> live CDs ftw
Aug 04 18:53:38 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, I'm no noob, just a fool. Don't like to shutdown the system, as I'm *constantly* using it
Aug 04 18:54:27 <DocScrutinizer> and yes, it's in its 28th hour now
Aug 04 18:54:44 <DocScrutinizer> and not even partially done yet
Aug 04 18:55:04 <DocScrutinizer> ETA as guessed by me is >70h
Aug 04 18:55:16 <DocScrutinizer> btw ECHAN, sorry
Aug 04 18:57:15 <DocScrutinizer> one last comment: I'm taking bets, it will fail in the end XP
Aug 04 19:08:43 <DocScrutinizer> ([2010-08-04 19:36:42] <frals> DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG51: it wont stick)  yep, you're absolutely right :-S
Aug 04 19:09:22 <MohammadAG51> what won't stick?
Aug 04 19:09:30 <MohammadAG51> oh, nvm, perverted head
Aug 04 19:09:33 * MohammadAG51 bangs head
Aug 04 19:09:34 * Khertan didn't like the existing twitter client
Aug 04 19:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> that's really mean
Aug 04 19:09:39 * Khertan didn't like the existing twitter maemo client 
Aug 04 19:10:01 <Khertan> tweego ask for login/pass everytime
Aug 04 19:10:08 <DocScrutinizer> afk
Aug 04 19:10:21 <Khertan> mauku is lock to one year ago tweets and didn't refresh
Aug 04 19:10:39 <Khertan> witter ... is far from having a simple and nice ui
Aug 04 19:10:50 <Khertan> did a another one exist on maemo ?
Aug 04 19:11:17 <Khertan> or i finish my experiment with Khweeteur (my own twitter client ?)
Aug 04 19:25:39 * timeless kicks crashanddie
Aug 04 19:25:53 <timeless> maemo is not a discussion system
Aug 04 19:25:56 <timeless> nor for that matter is meego
Aug 04 19:25:57 <mgedmin> DocScrutinizer, why do you have /proc mounted under /var/lib/ntp?
Aug 04 19:26:03 <timeless> all of them are dictator based
Aug 04 19:26:06 <timeless> there's an owner
Aug 04 19:26:10 <timeless> and the owner has the last word
Aug 04 19:26:25 <timeless> in the nokia process, that's generally whichever sucker was paid to be the victim
Aug 04 19:26:42 <timeless> in the meego process, it's whichever sucker gets stuck w/ the position
Aug 04 19:26:53 <luke-jr> every time I pick up N810, I am in awe how much nicer than N900 it is <.<
Aug 04 19:27:15 <timeless> and *hopefully* that sucker is being paid for the pain and suffering involved
Aug 04 19:28:28 <DocScrutinizer> mgedmin: guess that's the changeroot for ntpd on my x86 linux
Aug 04 19:28:59 <mgedmin> which distro?
Aug 04 19:29:08 <mgedmin> debian doesn't use a chroot for ntp
Aug 04 19:29:08 <DocScrutinizer> done by default by the same friggin tool called yast that now thinks it's good idea to backup that
Aug 04 19:29:13 <DocScrutinizer> opensuse
Aug 04 19:30:32 * mgedmin pulls out some popcorn
Aug 04 19:31:08 <crashanddie> timeless: you do realise the whole point of my ranting?
Aug 04 19:34:41 <crashanddie> mgedmin: why the corn?
Aug 04 19:36:18 <Corsac> crashanddie: *sighs*
Aug 04 19:36:37 <crashanddie> Corsac: hmm?
Aug 04 19:36:43 <Corsac> about the tooltips
Aug 04 19:37:02 <crashanddie> Corsac: sigh against me or against the decision?
Aug 04 19:37:07 <Corsac> the decision
Aug 04 19:37:16 <crashanddie> well, I do understand it
Aug 04 19:37:17 <Corsac> I have to admit I admire you, I gave up on this long ago
Aug 04 19:37:29 <Corsac> this being bug.m.o :/
Aug 04 19:37:41 * timeless sells corsac an S
Aug 04 19:38:08 <timeless> seriously, when someone writes an essay in a tooltip, they've done something terribly wrong
Aug 04 19:38:13 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: why are you backupping stuff instead of making stuff that's good enough for people to mirror for themselves?
Aug 04 19:40:06 <Corsac> timeless: it's not exactly a life changer for microB, imho, and I'm not sure it's the browser call
Aug 04 19:41:01 <Corsac> as long as it's correct, wether it's sensible is something entirely different imho
Aug 04 19:41:32 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: err wut?
Aug 04 19:41:36 <crashanddie> timeless: it's not about writing essays in the tooltip, nor is it about displaying them or not
Aug 04 19:41:53 <crashanddie> timeless: it's about having the bloody decency to treat people with respect, and not simply dismiss an idea by being a rude ass
Aug 04 19:42:21 <crashanddie> timeless: explain that this would be a feature request, and that nobody is working on new features on microb at the moment
Aug 04 19:42:22 <mgedmin> crashanddie, the popcorn is for watching the flamewar between you and timeless
Aug 04 19:42:31 <mgedmin> could you please try to be a bit less rude and a bit more entertaining?
Aug 04 19:42:39 <crashanddie> timeless: I've had to fucking read the html 4 spec just to get you to admit that
Aug 04 19:43:01 <crashanddie> like i give a crap about tooltips
Aug 04 19:43:19 <timeless> heh
Aug 04 19:43:34 <timeless> sorry
Aug 04 19:43:38 <timeless> not plaing this game
Aug 04 19:43:44 <timeless> if you like. i can be terser
Aug 04 19:43:49 <timeless> or i can ignore things entirely
Aug 04 19:43:53 <timeless> those are your choices
Aug 04 19:44:01 <timeless> WONTFIX. NO DISCUSSION ALLOWED. GO AWAY
Aug 04 19:44:07 <timeless> that's an option if you like
Aug 04 19:44:14 * timeless sighs
Aug 04 19:45:03 <crashanddie> "There are no new features being developed at this stage in the product cycle of MicroB, so I'm closing this as WONTFIX"
Aug 04 19:45:12 <crashanddie> just 3 times the length, 100 times the kindness.
Aug 04 19:45:25 <mgedmin> crashanddie++
Aug 04 19:45:46 * timeless shrugs
Aug 04 19:45:49 <timeless> i didn't close it today
Aug 04 19:45:51 <timeless> i closed it ages ago
Aug 04 19:46:07 <timeless> and i'm not going to talk about this
Aug 04 19:46:09 <timeless> not today
Aug 04 19:46:11 <timeless> not ever again
Aug 04 19:46:15 <timeless> if you do bother me again
Aug 04 19:46:21 <timeless> i will just yell at you
Aug 04 19:46:29 <timeless> i have better things to do
Aug 04 19:46:36 <timeless> like find myself a happier profession
Aug 04 19:46:39 * timeless considers farming
Aug 04 19:46:43 <timeless> and not the facebook stuff
Aug 04 19:46:46 <timeless> it's too complicated
Aug 04 19:47:14 * DocScrutinizer prepares popcorn as well
Aug 04 19:47:37 <ShadowJK> timeless, how about beer/winemaking?
Aug 04 19:47:49 * ShadowJK has a 300 litre cooling tank sitting idle
Aug 04 19:48:03 <timeless> shadowjk; as i don't drink, that'd be kinda depressing
Aug 04 19:48:12 <ShadowJK> ah
Aug 04 19:48:16 <timeless> at least as i'm human, i eat, and thus could benefit from farming
Aug 04 19:48:31 <timeless> otoh, perhaps i should take up drinking
Aug 04 19:48:38 <timeless> it seems to be what everyone else here does
Aug 04 19:48:40 <lcuk> i will join you timeless
Aug 04 19:48:43 <timeless> i guess it's a good coping mechanism
Aug 04 19:48:51 * mgedmin drinks virtually
Aug 04 19:48:58 <mgedmin> if I started, I'd become a total alcoholic
Aug 04 19:49:00 <lcuk> earl grey, hot?
Aug 04 19:49:04 <mgedmin> heh
Aug 04 19:49:27 <ShadowJK> I heard on the radio that "chillout" drinks are emerging on the market in the US alongside the usual energy drinks
Aug 04 19:49:27 * lcuk potsed on the bug report :O
Aug 04 19:49:44 <mgedmin> the other side of the argument is: is it reasonable to force every engineer to be a PR person?
Aug 04 19:50:00 <lcuk> posted even
Aug 04 19:50:06 <mgedmin> should it maybe be aklapper who walks into the discussion on a bug and pastes that friendly sentence like crashandie suggested?
Aug 04 19:50:19 <timeless> lcuk: i had a nice green tea w/ dinner
Aug 04 19:50:32 * mgedmin didn't post on the bug report because he thinks it would be pointless
Aug 04 19:50:39 <ShadowJK> I don't think bugzilla should have any PR
Aug 04 19:50:41 <crashanddie> mgedmin: except those are "write once, use many"... it could've been done ages ago
Aug 04 19:50:43 <timeless> mgedmin: that's appreciated
Aug 04 19:50:45 <ShadowJK> it's the wr ong place :P
Aug 04 19:50:46 <lcuk> i think for anyone later who wants to use it can
Aug 04 19:50:54 <timeless> fwiw
Aug 04 19:50:55 <timeless> data:text/html,%3Cstyle%3Eimg:after{content:%22%20%22%20attr(title)}%3C/style%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://images.apple.com/v20100726225204/startpage/images/promo_imac_20100727.jpg%22%20alt=%22The%20new%20iMac%20|%20The%20ultimate%20all-in-one.%20Turbocharged.%22%20title=%22two%20new%20apple%20iMac%20computers%20with%20stands%22%3E
Aug 04 19:50:59 <timeless> is the way it should work
Aug 04 19:51:02 <lcuk> i have seen lots of people come here saying "how do i get alt text"
Aug 04 19:51:07 <timeless> unfortunately, gecko doesn't support content:attr()
Aug 04 19:51:12 <timeless> when it does, you can use it
Aug 04 19:51:14 <lcuk> and invariably, me pasting todays xkcd solves problem
Aug 04 19:51:33 <mgedmin> lcuk, I think nobody's arguing (any more) about this being a bug
Aug 04 19:51:38 <timeless> you're free to write the impl
Aug 04 19:51:44 <lcuk> yeah  posted the solution to it
Aug 04 19:51:46 <timeless> mgedmin: the only bug is in xkcd's content
Aug 04 19:51:55 <timeless> it's really bogus
Aug 04 19:51:55 <lcuk> that timeless himself showed!
Aug 04 19:51:56 <mgedmin> iirc firefox had an xckd bug in their bugzilla for a couple of years until the devs caved in and added support for long tooltips
Aug 04 19:52:00 <timeless> and always has been
Aug 04 19:52:13 <timeless> mgedmin: which is incredibly unfortunate
Aug 04 19:52:21 <mgedmin> that's the way the world works
Aug 04 19:52:21 <timeless> because some of us don't have screens big enough to show long tooltips
Aug 04 19:52:23 <lcuk> the power of xkcd!
Aug 04 19:52:29 <mgedmin> standards follow implementations, no the other way around
Aug 04 19:52:42 <timeless> anyway
Aug 04 19:52:48 <timeless> this conversation is dead
Aug 04 19:52:51 <timeless> please make it go away
Aug 04 19:52:59 <timeless> the alternative is that i never join this channel again
Aug 04 19:53:05 <crashanddie> #maemo /clear
Aug 04 19:53:08 <timeless> the reality is that we're not working on maemo at all anymore
Aug 04 19:53:21 <timeless> so i don't really have a good reason to stay if people here choose to make my life miserable
Aug 04 19:53:30 <timeless> we're working on meego--
Aug 04 19:53:32 <crashanddie> timeless: you know that's not true
Aug 04 19:53:37 <crashanddie> timeless: at least, not from my part
Aug 04 19:53:50 <MohammadAG51> i am anti-meego
Aug 04 19:54:00 <timeless> crashanddie: i can't counter that w/ numbers
Aug 04 19:54:02 <kerio> i'm anti-rpm
Aug 04 19:54:02 <MohammadAG51> well, anti-rpm
Aug 04 19:54:02 <timeless> and you know it
Aug 04 19:54:09 <MohammadAG51> heh
Aug 04 19:54:30 <timeless> but maemo devices ceased to exist July 1
Aug 04 19:54:36 <timeless> it was replaced by meego devices iirc
Aug 04 19:54:39 <MohammadAG51> i experimented with rpms, they don't store shit about the package
Aug 04 19:54:42 <timeless> or maybe meego computers
Aug 04 19:54:46 <timeless> who knows
Aug 04 19:54:56 * timeless shrugs
Aug 04 19:54:58 <timeless> debs suck
Aug 04 19:55:04 <kerio> i want a meego device :(
Aug 04 19:55:11 <timeless> i want a pony
Aug 04 19:55:18 <timeless> and a place to keep it
Aug 04 19:55:20 <kerio> ponies exist, at least :(
Aug 04 19:55:20 <FauxFaux> Mine.
Aug 04 19:55:20 <timeless> and food for it
Aug 04 19:55:21 <Corsac> ponies!
Aug 04 19:55:25 <ShadowJK> Isn't N900 the reference meego device? :P
Aug 04 19:55:33 <timeless> shadowjk: not 'the'
Aug 04 19:55:38 <ShadowJK> oh, "a"
Aug 04 19:55:39 <timeless> perhaps 'a'
Aug 04 19:55:48 <kerio> timeless: well, *the*, right now
Aug 04 19:55:50 <timeless> of this, i am not certain
Aug 04 19:55:55 <kerio> or maybe the only
Aug 04 19:56:03 <timeless> kerio: actually, i think the reference device is probably something from intel
Aug 04 19:56:14 <ShadowJK> timeless, I think someone announced it as such, maybe they forgot to tell the people working on MeeGo :)
Aug 04 19:56:26 * timeless is surprised there isn't a beagle board reference device
Aug 04 19:56:28 * timeless sighs
Aug 04 19:56:36 <kerio> the reference device is the one that devs have
Aug 04 19:56:50 <timeless> there's a cabinet door in the other room which is swinging open and closed w. the wind
Aug 04 19:57:06 <timeless> kerio: i think that's virtualbox or vmware or something
Aug 04 19:57:20 * timeless has virtualbox
Aug 04 19:57:21 <kerio> or the n900
Aug 04 19:57:28 <kerio> awesome device
Aug 04 19:58:47 <timeless> crash: oh
Aug 04 19:58:50 <timeless> in case you're wondering
Aug 04 19:59:00 <timeless> people outside the browser team are *not* allowed to change browser behavior
Aug 04 20:00:00 <crashanddie> timeless: I didn't even know there wasn't any more dev on the browser, frankly
Aug 04 20:00:38 <timeless> crashanddie: we've integrated a few things into various pieces even last week or this week
Aug 04 20:00:49 <timeless> oh gosh]
Aug 04 20:00:54 <timeless> m.xkcd.com?
Aug 04 20:01:23 <timeless> lcuk++
Aug 04 20:01:25 <timeless> lcuk++
Aug 04 20:02:04 <timeless> lcuk: don't suppose you can ask them to change the link from 'alt' to 'title'?
Aug 04 20:02:14 <DocScrutinizer> wtf? (typing onehanded - other hand in popcorn bag)
Aug 04 20:02:35 <lcuk> timeless, hmm ? be specific
Aug 04 20:02:45 <kerio> alt is instead of the picture
Aug 04 20:02:47 <kerio> title is mouseover
Aug 04 20:03:00 <timeless> on m.xkcd.com has a link 'alt' but it shows the title text, not the alt text
Aug 04 20:03:05 <lcuk> i am not a html person
Aug 04 20:03:09 <kerio> there's no alt text!
Aug 04 20:03:10 <lcuk> ahh
Aug 04 20:03:21 <lcuk> it was you that told me about it, but never once mentioned it in the bug report
Aug 04 20:03:29 <kerio> i mean, it should be a substitution for the content of the image
Aug 04 20:03:31 <lcuk> everyone asks about lt text actually
Aug 04 20:03:36 * timeless has a very short memory
Aug 04 20:03:43 <kerio> lcuk: lt text?
Aug 04 20:03:50 <kerio> "<text"
Aug 04 20:03:51 <timeless> he lost an 'a'
Aug 04 20:03:59 <lcuk> alt
Aug 04 20:04:07 <lcuk> damn keyboard
Aug 04 20:04:18 * lcuk turns it upside down and bashes all hte popcorn out of it
Aug 04 20:04:45 <crashanddie> kerio: xkcd.com has an alt tag, and also a title tag
Aug 04 20:05:03 <crashanddie> kerio: there is no specification in any standard, nor recommendation that title should have a max amount of characters
Aug 04 20:05:26 <timeless> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25054&hilit=mobile+xkcd fwiw
Aug 04 20:05:28 <kerio> crashanddie: because crappy browsers show the alt attribute in a tooltip
Aug 04 20:05:56 <lcuk> ================================== problem solved, please just remember to pass on http://m.xkcd.com to anyone who asks
Aug 04 20:06:10 <crashanddie> sure
Aug 04 20:06:24 <lcuk> i cleared out my entire sms history
Aug 04 20:06:28 <lcuk> and deleted the folder
Aug 04 20:06:34 <andre__> feeling better now?
Aug 04 20:06:39 <lcuk> and it came back and still uses 10% memory in browserd
Aug 04 20:06:46 <andre__> heh
Aug 04 20:07:06 <lcuk> any ideas what could be eating all the ram
Aug 04 20:07:14 <timeless> ?
Aug 04 20:07:24 <timeless> which browserd? is this conversations?
Aug 04 20:07:24 <kerio> lcuk: gremlins
Aug 04 20:07:24 <lcuk> i see listings from different people with different top results showing same process taking up less mem
Aug 04 20:07:27 <lcuk> yes
Aug 04 20:07:42 * timeless ponders
Aug 04 20:07:48 <timeless> i'm not sure i really want to care
Aug 04 20:07:56 <lcuk> i thought it was due to the number of messages  it was retaining
Aug 04 20:07:56 <timeless> i really really need to do some technical writing
Aug 04 20:08:00 <timeless> or kick my cabinet door
Aug 04 20:08:03 <lcuk> then go do some timeless
Aug 04 20:08:09 <lcuk> it wasnt aimed at you
Aug 04 20:08:19 * timeless walks away
Aug 04 20:08:23 <lcuk> theres some good guys here who can normally identify such things
Aug 04 20:09:17 <nox-> moin
Aug 04 20:09:26 <crashanddie> lcuk: 7% on browserd
Aug 04 20:10:00 <lcuk> o_O
Aug 04 20:10:39 <lcuk> and its gone down to 7.6% now that I added some messages into it
Aug 04 20:10:51 <crashanddie> 7.6% is exactly what I have
Aug 04 20:10:53 <lcuk> i last looked last night and got
Aug 04 20:11:13 <mgedmin> 18.8% memory in browserd -- I think I have some page open
Aug 04 20:11:21 <DocScrutinizer> aah, a nice one to make microb render random mondrian, then freeze: kicker.de
Aug 04 20:11:31 <lcuk>  1530  1182 user     S    25028 10.1  0.0 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 1530 -n RTComMessagingServer
Aug 04 20:11:53 <lcuk> now i have a less footprint
Aug 04 20:11:57 <lcuk> 1476  1165 user     S    18944  7.6  0.0 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 1476 -n RTComMessagingServer
Aug 04 20:12:13 <DocScrutinizer> just click somewhere, make sure js enabled
Aug 04 20:12:28 <lcuk> this is the front end to conversations
Aug 04 20:12:57 <lcuk> doesnt matter now then if its closer to normal
Aug 04 20:13:02 <lcuk> just seeing 10% was a bit ott
Aug 04 20:13:26 <crashanddie> low battery, I'm out
Aug 04 20:14:28 <cehteh> hah new power-kernel again :P
Aug 04 20:15:36 <MohammadAG51> what does it burn?
Aug 04 20:15:58 <MohammadAG51> zaheerm-lp, hey
Aug 04 20:16:07 <cehteh> maybe fixing the video?
Aug 04 20:16:31 <MohammadAG51> hmm?
Aug 04 20:16:40 <MohammadAG51> zaheerm-lp, maintainer of zoutube right?
Aug 04 20:18:10 <MohammadAG51> wow 36 upgraded, 10 pinned
Aug 04 20:19:36 <MohammadAG51> need, new, pulseaudio
Aug 04 20:20:21 <Stskeeps> sure pulseaudio from maemo isn't on gitorious?
Aug 04 20:20:41 <MohammadAG51> hmm? lemme check
Aug 04 20:20:53 <alterego> Need working gstreamer plugins ..
Aug 04 20:21:20 <alterego> I'd really like to knoow why the Alpha plugin element doesn't work in gstreamer
Aug 04 20:23:25 <MohammadAG51> Stskeeps, doesn't seem to be there
Aug 04 20:23:30 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG51: sucks
Aug 04 20:29:24 <MohammadAG51> Stskeeps, would porting a different pulseaduio f up calls/mediaplayer?
Aug 04 20:29:37 <Stskeeps> likely
Aug 04 20:29:47 <MohammadAG51> meh
Aug 04 20:30:02 <MohammadAG51> PR1.3 it is, whenever that is
Aug 04 20:30:20 <BugBlue> ~pr1.3
Aug 04 20:30:21 <infobot> hmm... pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now.....
Aug 04 20:30:28 <alterego> Heh
Aug 04 20:30:29 <Bluewind> are there screens of the different plastic themes? (plastic theme pack and addon packs)
Aug 04 20:30:34 <MohammadAG51> i wonder if meego will follow the same retarded SSU method
Aug 04 20:32:22 <threezero> SSU?
Aug 04 20:32:45 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG51: check how netbook does it, i guess
Aug 04 20:32:49 <MohammadAG51> seamless (meh) software update
Aug 04 20:33:14 <threezero> heh
Aug 04 20:33:41 <cehteh> ok still no video camera with new kernel
Aug 04 20:34:33 <MohammadAG51> cehteh, video cam works here
Aug 04 20:34:46 <cehteh> hum
Aug 04 20:34:55 <cehteh> main cam?
Aug 04 20:35:17 <cehteh> since i installed the new kernel i can only make photos but no video
Aug 04 20:35:59 <DocScrutinizer> resurrected 'needs VFAT' issue
Aug 04 20:36:02 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Aug 04 20:36:15 <cehteh> dunno
Aug 04 20:36:41 <cehteh> i am not in mood to investigate this
Aug 04 20:36:50 <MohammadAG51> only problem with the cam here is that it can't lock audio so the cam doesn't - always
Aug 04 20:37:08 <MohammadAG51> start the camera
Aug 04 20:37:17 <MohammadAG51> which it just did, and apparen
Aug 04 20:37:22 <MohammadAG51> UGH
Aug 04 20:38:59 <MohammadAG51> camera-ui forces xchat to send a message when the cam opens
Aug 04 20:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Aug 04 20:39:40 <nox-> haha
Aug 04 20:40:17 <DocScrutinizer> that's the virus which sends all your imagery to a secret DCC
Aug 04 20:42:16 <DocScrutinizer> they prepended the /cmd with a \n to make sure it's in a new line, on its own
Aug 04 20:42:42 <cehteh> how can i start the video recording app from console to get any output if there is any?
Aug 04 20:44:03 <DocScrutinizer> that's the point - with camera-ui original you can not
Aug 04 20:44:25 <DocScrutinizer> at least aiui
Aug 04 20:44:38 <cehteh> ok forget it
Aug 04 20:48:45 <johnsq> Hi
Aug 04 21:44:05 <hrw|gone> anyone knows why building in official maemovm with sbox has so badly floating dates?
Aug 04 21:44:10 <hrw|gone> checking whether build environment is sane... configure: error: newly created file is older than distributed files!
Aug 04 21:44:37 <hrw|gone> and time is set properly inside of vm
Aug 04 21:48:40 <SpeedEvil> Has anyone investigaed if hulu plus might work with n900?
Aug 04 21:52:28 <svanheulen> hello
Aug 04 21:53:54 <svanheulen> anyone know how to check things out of the the mxr? website says to use svn or git but i just get connection timeout errors
Aug 04 22:37:49 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Aug 04 23:05:16 <lcuk> mgedmin, can we get supybot to tell us todays xkcd line with a command?
Aug 04 23:05:28 <mgedmin> lcuk, in theory, yes
Aug 04 23:05:40 <lcuk> :D awesome
Aug 04 23:05:41 <mgedmin> just write/find a supybot plugin and email me the install instructions ;)
Aug 04 23:05:58 <lcuk> knowing irc, theres probably already one
Aug 04 23:06:10 <nox-> oh new bot?
Aug 04 23:06:30 <mgedmin> povbot is old (and stupid)
Aug 04 23:06:30 <povbot> mgedmin: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
Aug 04 23:06:34 <mgedmin> see?
Aug 04 23:06:35 <mgedmin> povbot, about
Aug 04 23:06:36 <povbot> mgedmin: Error: "about" is not a valid command.
Aug 04 23:06:42 <mgedmin> povbot, info
Aug 04 23:06:42 <povbot> mgedmin: Error: "info" is not a valid command.
Aug 04 23:06:45 <mgedmin> povbot, version
Aug 04 23:06:47 <povbot> mgedmin: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1.  The newest version available online is 0.83.4.1.
Aug 04 23:07:15 <nox-> povbot, factoids
Aug 04 23:07:15 <povbot> nox-: Error: "factoids" is not a valid command.
Aug 04 23:07:21 <MohammadAG51> povbot, help
Aug 04 23:07:22 <povbot> MohammadAG51: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
Aug 04 23:08:24 <lcuk> what language is used to code supybot?
Aug 04 23:08:31 <LjL> python
Aug 04 23:08:33 <lcuk> or old stupid povbot
Aug 04 23:17:19 <Lynoure> What, N900 has no default way to set a calendar entry to repeat daily?
Aug 04 23:21:13 <hamilton5> something like just changing the day when it comes up... but not auto I dont think
Aug 04 23:21:14 <Lynoure> ah, the alarm clock works better for this
Aug 04 23:25:10 <hamilton5> would like to color code every other monday for the day I work... that way I can skip a few months ahead and eaisly see if I have to work that day.
Aug 04 23:32:35 <ieatlint> ok, who wants to marry me before they make it illegal here again?
Aug 04 23:34:45 <hamilton5> you gay?
Aug 04 23:37:22 <ieatlint> that's a pretty personal question
Aug 04 23:37:35 <hamilton5> well if im to marry you...
Aug 04 23:37:57 <ieatlint> well, a few drinks and we'll see ;)
Aug 04 23:48:44 <DocScrutinizer> MUHAHA, rename user "user" breaks all things as we know.
Aug 04 23:48:55 <DocScrutinizer> now here comes a nice detail:
Aug 04 23:49:36 <DocScrutinizer> # UIDs that are allowed to use Lifeguard with reset policy
Aug 04 23:49:47 <DocScrutinizer> # the UID used for applications
Aug 04 23:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> 29999
Aug 04 23:50:02 <DocScrutinizer> http://gitorious.org/dsme/dsme/blobs/master/lifeguard.uids
Aug 04 23:50:40 <nox-> what are lifeguard and dsme?
Aug 04 23:51:55 <DocScrutinizer> Device State Management Entity
Aug 04 23:52:29 <DocScrutinizer> the central monster starting all important processes
Aug 04 23:52:41 <DocScrutinizer> dsme-tool --help
Aug 04 23:53:48 <DocScrutinizer> hardcoded user numeric ID, now that's one of the kinkiest things I've ever seen
Aug 04 23:53:54 * cehteh thinks 80% of nokia developments efforts gone in things reinventing wheels in all shapes but round ones
Aug 04 23:54:29 <nox-> hm doesnt seem to be in path
Aug 04 23:54:30 <kerio> the engineers of square-peg-in-round-hole
Aug 04 23:54:40 <nox-> hehe
Aug 04 23:54:45 <cehteh> "it worked before, here is how it works everywhere! .. ah cool, lets make it different"
Aug 04 23:54:49 <DocScrutinizer> it is, in root path
Aug 04 23:55:22 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia-N900-42-11:~# dsmetool --help
Aug 04 23:55:24 <DocScrutinizer> USAGE: dsmetool <options>
Aug 04 23:55:25 <DocScrutinizer> Note that the <cmd> should include absolute path.
Aug 04 23:55:29 <cehteh> anyone of you know how the software stack on symbian looks like?
Aug 04 23:55:48 <nox-> ah spelled w/o -
Aug 04 23:55:48 * cehteh suspects that they just tried to replicate parts on top of linux
Aug 04 23:56:47 <cehteh> or did they really reinvent all that crap out of nothing?
Aug 05 00:00:12 <DocScrutinizer> aaaah, oom-adj, now that's what I confused with ohm
Aug 05 00:00:54 <threezero> oom == openObsoleteManager?
Aug 05 00:01:20 <luke-jr> out of memory
Aug 05 00:01:27 <DocScrutinizer> out of mem manager?
Aug 05 00:01:36 <threezero> Ooops Out of Memory
Aug 05 00:01:52 <BCMM> that reminds me, there is no way to trigger magic sysrq events from the n900 keyboard, is there?
Aug 05 00:02:05 <DocScrutinizer> prolly not
Aug 05 00:02:12 <BCMM> hmm, i thought not
Aug 05 00:02:14 <BCMM> shame
Aug 05 00:02:19 <TermanaN900> good morning
Aug 05 00:02:27 <DocScrutinizer> missing a few qualifier keys, and especially N-key rollover
Aug 05 00:08:17 <wolf^> BCMM, ctrl+shift+x, echo ... > /proc/sysrq-trigger
Aug 05 00:08:21 <wolf^> BCMM, all using keyboard ;p
Aug 05 00:10:28 <mgedmin> don't you need to be root to write there?
Aug 05 00:11:03 <wolf^> oh yes, add sudo gainroot then
Aug 05 00:15:10 <DocScrutinizer> wolf^: check for N-key rollover problem in kbd hw matrix. Though *some* 3-key combos might work, others won't
Aug 05 00:16:59 * DocScrutinizer ponders if somebody would say thanks to him when he did a table of all problematic combinations of permutations of shift|ctrl|Fn|<anykey>
Aug 05 00:17:36 <kerio> i did shift+fn+key combos
Aug 05 00:17:47 <kerio> they all work except for z/x and j/k
Aug 05 00:17:55 <kerio> (they map to the same)
Aug 05 00:18:38 * DocScrutinizer decides it's much more convenient for him to look up particular combos in schematics, and he's not fond of doing monkey table writedowns
Aug 05 00:46:19 <GuySoft> hey, i am planning to go to india - i was wondering if you have any programs to suggest to take with me. like perhaps a gps map? or some digital guide?
Aug 05 00:52:55 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, ping?
Aug 05 00:53:12 <DocScrutinizer> pong
Aug 05 01:01:50 <GuySoft> anybody here?
Aug 05 01:02:14 <hamilton5> no
Aug 05 01:02:21 <GuySoft> hamilton5, aha!
Aug 05 01:02:37 <hamilton5> (op): 1 [0.2%] (voice): 1 [0.2%] (users): 472 [99.6%] = (total): 474
Aug 05 01:03:17 <GuySoft> well, ill try another question, did anyone try a rapid 1AA charger on their nokia N810?: http://cgi.ebay.com/Emergency-Battery-Mobile-Phone-Charger-Nokia-Moto-/260603100764?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PDA_Accessories
Aug 05 01:03:38 <mgedmin> if you're looking for gps maps for a n810, install maemo-mapper
Aug 05 01:03:43 <GuySoft> it claims to give 350mA, i am not sure if thats good enough
Aug 05 01:03:59 <GuySoft> mgedmin, yes, but mamo-mapper can't really navigate on its own
Aug 05 01:04:17 <mgedmin> no, but it is a gps map, for some value of gps and map ;)
Aug 05 01:04:23 <GuySoft> mgedmin, here in israel i use freemap-il it has vector maps
Aug 05 01:05:18 <GuySoft> mgedmin, well i have it, i guess i would need to download maps for it in advance
Aug 05 01:05:33 <mgedmin> a very good idea
Aug 05 01:05:48 <GuySoft> i never really figured out how to do that.. and goocle maps does not work anymore right?
Aug 05 01:06:06 <mgedmin> no idea
Aug 05 01:06:12 <mgedmin> how's openstreetmap coverage for India?
Aug 05 02:09:46 <skynets> hey
Aug 05 02:09:54 <skynets> ive been waiting for more than 3 weeks
Aug 05 02:10:01 <skynets> extras-devel is not working
Aug 05 02:10:02 <skynets> is this normal
Aug 05 02:10:14 <hamilton5> define 'is not working'
Aug 05 02:10:26 <skynets> cant update it with the app manager
Aug 05 02:10:34 <skynets> gives me an error
Aug 05 02:11:01 <hamilton5> and that error is......
Aug 05 02:11:19 <skynets> oh ok i thought it was affecting everyone
Aug 05 02:11:52 <hamilton5> oh ok you should just get to the point of what your problem is
Aug 05 02:12:10 <hamilton5> repo lists are here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/
Aug 05 02:12:11 <skynets> hold on its loading
Aug 05 02:12:20 <skynets> yeah all the repos are installed
Aug 05 02:12:35 <hamilton5> you dont install repos
Aug 05 02:12:43 <skynets> added them
Aug 05 02:13:18 <skynets> stupid app manager
Aug 05 02:13:27 <ham5> agreed
Aug 05 02:13:28 <zeltak> hya. anyone using emelfm2 with n900?
Aug 05 02:13:43 <skynets> so now im going back to it
Aug 05 02:13:48 <skynets> trying to generate the error
Aug 05 02:13:55 <skynets> no catalogs in use
Aug 05 02:14:00 <skynets> they were all there a minute ago
Aug 05 02:14:01 <skynets> wtf
Aug 05 02:14:35 <skynets> i cant even download fapman
Aug 05 02:15:57 <skynets> is there another way to install fapman?
Aug 05 02:16:02 <skynets> can i get it with apt-get?
Aug 05 02:16:14 <ham5> not if your repo list isent right
Aug 05 02:16:24 <ham5> download the deb from the web and install with dpkg
Aug 05 02:16:35 <skynets> damn linux
Aug 05 02:16:43 <skynets> why cant anything run smoothly
Aug 05 02:17:12 <ham5> so much to play with you get noobs that just mess it all up ... my guess
Aug 05 02:17:13 <skynets> ok here is the error
Aug 05 02:17:25 <skynets> yeah blame it on the noobs
Aug 05 02:17:40 <skynets> Application list partially refreshed
Aug 05 02:17:51 <skynets> Some catalogs unavailable
Aug 05 02:17:58 <skynets> Maemo Extras-Evel
Aug 05 02:18:05 <ham5> nice spelling
Aug 05 02:18:13 <skynets> Devel*
Aug 05 02:18:14 <microlith> o_O anyone else in here on AT&T?
Aug 05 02:18:41 <luke-jr> microlith: too expensive
Aug 05 02:18:58 <microlith> I do plan on moving to t-mobile
Aug 05 02:18:59 <ham5> !anyone
Aug 05 02:19:07 <microlith> but I think their data network just went down
Aug 05 02:19:13 <microlith> at least here
Aug 05 02:19:24 <ham5> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
Aug 05 02:19:26 <ham5> :)
Aug 05 02:19:40 <luke-jr> microlith: T-Mobile is nosy
Aug 05 02:20:04 <luke-jr> microlith: they demand private info ☹
Aug 05 02:21:25 <microlith> well it's either expensive 2.5 or nosy, cheap 3g
Aug 05 02:22:27 <luke-jr> heh
Aug 05 02:22:41 <luke-jr> I use T-Mo's hiptop pay-as-you-go
Aug 05 02:22:43 <luke-jr> $1/day
Aug 05 02:22:50 <luke-jr> just need to setup a proxy for ports 80 and 443
Aug 05 02:22:55 <DocScrutinizer> wolf^: kerio: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard
Aug 05 02:30:17 <zeltak> tried to look on the wiki regarding info for the busybox shell..cant find much...is there a search history (ctrl-r) type thing for it?
Aug 05 02:42:33 <skynets> finally installed fapman
Aug 05 02:42:37 <skynets> now the first update
Aug 05 02:42:46 <skynets> froze at like 5%
Aug 05 02:42:54 <skynets> its been on it for like 20 minutes
Aug 05 02:42:55 <skynets> is that normalo
Aug 05 02:43:08 <skynets> it says Operation in progress Fetching package date information
Aug 05 02:43:15 <skynets> stuck at the same place
Aug 05 02:44:59 <mortini> skynets: via wifi or 3g/etc?
Aug 05 02:45:07 <skynets> wifi
Aug 05 02:45:24 <skynets> wow now i cant even close it
Aug 05 02:45:27 <skynets> X wont respond
Aug 05 02:45:34 <skynets> stupid phone
Aug 05 02:45:38 <mortini> yeah, there's some sleep thing that i lack the desire to look up on the maemo wiki that happens with wifi
Aug 05 02:45:44 <mortini> it varies based on your AP
Aug 05 02:46:00 <mortini> what i do is do an update/install and switch to the web browser and just load up google and search stupid crap.
Aug 05 02:46:04 <skynets> why did i buy this phone
Aug 05 02:46:16 <mortini> Can't answer that.
Aug 05 02:46:26 <skynets> can i throw it on a brick wall and be satisfied?
Aug 05 02:46:39 <mortini> You could send it to me, and pretend yo usent it to the brick wall.
Aug 05 02:47:10 <skynets> meh for some reason its still wworth money
Aug 05 02:47:32 <skynets> greeat
Aug 05 02:47:35 * mortini shrugs. you could still send it to me.
Aug 05 02:47:40 <skynets> now i rebooted the phone and my sim card isnt detected
Aug 05 02:47:44 <mortini> and i could build a n900 BEOWULF CLUSTER!
Aug 05 02:47:49 * mortini nods & shrugs.
Aug 05 02:48:24 <skynets> worst investment ever
Aug 05 02:48:36 <TermanaN900> mortini, something tells me that people wont buy that for the performance :P
Aug 05 02:48:47 <ham5> skynets flash it back to stock and quit f'n with it
Aug 05 02:49:08 <skynets> even flashing it to stock doesnt work from windows x64
Aug 05 02:49:28 <mortini> TermanaN900: seems to kind of be a dated analogy. seems 5-10 years ago, whenever a friend of mine would get 2+ cheapie computers from someplace, they'd go on about building them into a beowulf cluster, even though they'd have no idea what to do with it
Aug 05 02:49:28 <ham5> oh a windows user.... that explains alot;)
Aug 05 02:49:32 <TermanaN900> skynets, please go be a sheep somewhere else thank you
Aug 05 02:49:38 <TermanaN900> like tmo for instance
Aug 05 02:49:41 <mortini> i got these free 486's! let's make them into a beowulf cluster!
Aug 05 02:49:59 <mortini> even though my PII is faster.
Aug 05 02:50:03 <luke-jr> skynets: only lamers use Windows!
Aug 05 02:50:15 <skynets> and cool ppl use linux?
Aug 05 02:50:19 <luke-jr> skynets: sane people*
Aug 05 02:50:26 <mortini> cool people roll their own OS.
Aug 05 02:50:33 <skynets> because everything else doesnt matter
Aug 05 02:50:37 <luke-jr> skynets: in any case, N900 isn't a phone. you're bound to be disappointed if you wanted a phone.
Aug 05 02:50:37 <TermanaN900> mortini, LFS?
Aug 05 02:50:39 <mortini> cooler people roll their own HW
Aug 05 02:50:39 <TermanaN900> :P
Aug 05 02:50:44 <skynets> i bet your e-penis is huge
Aug 05 02:50:46 <luke-jr> skynets: HURD is a neat toy
Aug 05 02:50:50 <mortini> TermanaN900: LFS?
Aug 05 02:51:03 <TermanaN900> mortini, Linux from Scratch
Aug 05 02:51:07 <mortini> pft!
Aug 05 02:51:12 <mortini> that's for noobs
Aug 05 02:51:19 <luke-jr> it really is
Aug 05 02:51:21 <skynets> im calling it a phone but everyone knows that "phone" is only a feature on the n900
Aug 05 02:51:27 <luke-jr> I graduated from Lfs to Gentoo
Aug 05 02:51:29 <TermanaN900> skynets, it is, but id appreciate you not looking at my e-penis
Aug 05 02:51:43 <luke-jr> skynets: it reflects on your mindset
Aug 05 02:51:50 <skynets> you're the one waving it to everyone in here daily
Aug 05 02:51:59 <skynets> i dont come here often
Aug 05 02:52:05 <skynets> im too busy
Aug 05 02:52:22 <mortini> there's the occasional x86 OS that some random guy wrote in their basement. I know of one that i've seen SS's of, but I lack the desire to look at it.
Aug 05 02:52:40 <mortini> I'm really disappointed that someone hasn't ported BeOS to a phone, because, damn, that'd be pimp on today's phone hardware
Aug 05 02:52:41 <skynets> nitdroid ftw
Aug 05 02:52:59 <luke-jr> skynets: see, that reflects more the same attitude
Aug 05 02:53:01 <luke-jr> you want a phone
Aug 05 02:53:07 <luke-jr> not a low-end multifunction device
Aug 05 02:53:16 <mortini> although by the time they added the BS to make it into a phone, the BeOS benefits would be gone
Aug 05 02:53:25 <skynets> low-end multifunction device OS = maemo
Aug 05 02:53:30 <luke-jr> skynets: exactly
Aug 05 02:53:40 <luke-jr> low-end multifunction device = N900
Aug 05 02:53:41 <skynets> android is good no?
Aug 05 02:53:43 <Jucato> mortini: last I heard, Haiku OS might have plans
Aug 05 02:53:48 <luke-jr> if you wanted a high-end phone, you got the wrong product
Aug 05 02:53:56 <Jucato> (but not their priority atm I guess)
Aug 05 02:54:03 <luke-jr> Android is "okay" … for a phone
Aug 05 02:54:06 <luke-jr> but I never plan to buy a phone
Aug 05 02:54:14 <mortini> Jucato: without any commerical support, it doesn't particularly matter, tbh.
Aug 05 02:54:22 <ZogG> luke-jr, i did =)
Aug 05 02:54:32 <skynets> i thought android does more than maemo and better
Aug 05 02:54:34 <mortini> i guess i was referring to palm/HP
Aug 05 02:54:34 <ZogG> luke-jr, i didn't find n900 that good at something
Aug 05 02:54:40 <luke-jr> skynets: nope
Aug 05 02:54:41 <ham5> who needs commerical support, when you got everyone here ;)
Aug 05 02:54:58 <mortini>  but, palm/hp, that source has sat on osme tape or disk for the last 10+ years
Aug 05 02:55:03 <luke-jr> ZogG: N900 does "decent" at most everything. it's like a jack of all trades.
Aug 05 02:55:04 <mortini> and nobody's even looked at it.
Aug 05 02:55:09 <Jucato> mortini: if that's what you meant, yeah. wasn't really thinking about commercializing :)
Aug 05 02:55:13 <skynets> ham5 but everyone in here tells everyone else what it can do but nothing is being done and nokia saw that and let go of the n900
Aug 05 02:55:21 <ZogG> luke-jr, i mean it's cool device - but it's not using full potential  -it's like prototype =)
Aug 05 02:55:30 <luke-jr> ZogG: sure
Aug 05 02:55:41 <mortini> Jucato: tbh, my comment was more valid pre-iphone, mostly because the environment was so closed with totally rap OS
Aug 05 02:55:48 <mortini> er, crap OS prior to that.
Aug 05 02:55:53 <luke-jr> ZogG: I really want a high-end multifunction device though
Aug 05 02:56:05 <luke-jr> ZogG: so at least 12 mpixel cam, USABLE keyboard, etc
Aug 05 02:56:10 <Jucato> ZogG: "full potential"? in what sense?
Aug 05 02:56:15 <mortini> at least iOS gives the customer *some* choice. most telco's prior to that adopted the goodfella's policies on any sort of anything on your phone
Aug 05 02:56:20 <TermanaN900> whatever fools. I'll be rolling with ma MeeGo OS and ya'll be hatin bitches
Aug 05 02:56:22 <mortini> the 'F you, pay me' model.
Aug 05 02:56:26 <TermanaN900> :P
Aug 05 02:56:40 <ZogG> luke-jr, the keyboard is ok and camera too
Aug 05 02:56:47 <mortini> while, i guess iOS still has that, it's at last reasonable prices, instead of like $5/mo to add one ringtone.
Aug 05 02:57:05 <ZogG> Jucato, look at android
Aug 05 02:57:38 <luke-jr> ZogG: I had to go from 8 mpix to 5 mpix for N900 ;)
Aug 05 02:57:42 <ZogG> Jucato, when the OS is finished
Aug 05 02:58:06 <ZogG> luke-jr, i think if you want good camera - you buy camera and not other device+camera
Aug 05 02:58:36 <ZogG> phone camera is for quick photos and n900 is enuf for me
Aug 05 02:59:06 <luke-jr> ZogG: that's the difference between a jack-of-all-trades/low-end-multidevice and a polymath/high-end-multidevice
Aug 05 02:59:20 <luke-jr> the high-end should *replace* all the functions *entirely*
Aug 05 02:59:52 <Jucato> ZogG: I was more curious on how to measure that "full potential" for Maemo 5 on N900 (specific OS on specific hwardware)
Aug 05 02:59:56 <skynets> or at least not have an extremely buggy OS with a lack of official support surrounded with an arrogant community :P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 05 02:59:56 2010