**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 09 02:59:57 2010 Aug 09 03:01:16 thx default_ Aug 09 03:05:48 could be a bad connection Aug 09 03:41:57 wow Aug 09 03:42:03 nitdroid is awesome Aug 09 04:00:48 Macer, I'm not familiar with nitdroid, what does it let you do? Aug 09 04:00:58 Yarp. Aug 09 04:01:52 Ken-Young: NITdroid is an Android port to NITs Aug 09 04:02:27 luke-jr, Can you run Android apps with it? Aug 09 04:02:41 presumably Aug 09 04:02:46 it's Android Aug 09 04:03:08 perfect for idiots like Macer who just want a lame phone Aug 09 04:03:10 :P Aug 09 04:03:50 Does it run as a Maemo app, or do you have to boot a full Android? Aug 09 04:17:07 luke-jr: hahahaha Aug 09 04:17:32 yeah. everybody knows only the best and brightest use gentoo on their phones :) Aug 09 04:18:27 i'm booting it back into deadmo5 now :) Aug 09 04:19:10 luke-jr: honest go god. i would care less about maemo dying off if they at least added a portrait mode to the "desktop" Aug 09 04:20:46 and actual built in hid support for bt keyboards like maemo4 had Aug 09 04:21:51 Macer: portrait mode is easy Aug 09 04:22:03 a functional portrait mode :-P Aug 09 04:22:19 not that disgusting non-usable hackery that just rotates a non-resizing screen around Aug 09 04:22:33 android handles it nicely Aug 09 04:22:41 as does any other OS than maemo :) Aug 09 04:22:58 hmm I see what you mean Aug 09 04:23:01 the desktop doesn't really rotate Aug 09 04:23:12 well.. it does "rotate" Aug 09 04:23:20 but you can tell it isn't meant to do that Aug 09 04:23:22 but not resize Aug 09 04:23:35 or reposition Aug 09 04:23:54 i just hope that nitdroid figures out a few things. the gsm, gps, and cam is all that is left Aug 09 04:24:06 but i am sure nokia will do whatever it can to prevent it from working in android Aug 09 04:24:22 GPS is pretty much a given Aug 09 04:24:26 as they are unwilling to admit their OSes are failures :) Aug 09 04:24:35 have someone from NITdroid contact me ;) Aug 09 04:24:43 just go to #nitdroid Aug 09 04:24:46 I'm there Aug 09 04:24:48 i'm sure someone there will help you heh Aug 09 04:25:02 I don't need help. Aug 09 04:25:03 but the cams and the gps and modem are the last 3 things Aug 09 04:25:03 they do. Aug 09 04:25:10 I have GPS working on Gentoo 10)% Aug 09 04:25:11 100% Aug 09 04:25:19 quite sure symbian is still the most used/selling phone os Aug 09 04:25:32 not sure if that means its a failure or not Aug 09 04:25:33 lpotter: yeah i suppose if you include crap phones too ;) Aug 09 04:25:47 people who have their drug dealing burn phones don't care what os it runs Aug 09 04:26:14 you mean s30 and s40 Aug 09 04:27:33 heh. well i am betting that statistic will close up soon enough Aug 09 04:27:52 then wtf are you doing here? being a troll? Aug 09 04:28:37 no. i don't care about symbian. maemo is still good. it will just go stale soon enough. Aug 09 04:28:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Mobile_devices Aug 09 04:29:54 wow.. 10% for android... why is that statistic so off on the symbian wikipedia entry..maybe it's outdated Aug 09 04:30:31 says 2010 Q1,. thats fairly outdated Aug 09 04:31:26 youve been listening to US tech media too much Aug 09 04:31:35 yeah but the symbian entry has q1 of 2010 at 4.7% Aug 09 04:31:40 for android Aug 09 04:31:54 the graphic says 44% Aug 09 04:32:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbian_OS Aug 09 04:32:59 i was looking at the competition section Aug 09 04:33:03 Although the share of the global smartphone market dropped from 52.4% in 2008 to 47.2% in 2009 Aug 09 04:33:12 wow that is a huge drop in market share Aug 09 04:34:52 5%? Aug 09 04:35:49 yes. 5% of a market share is a huge drop Aug 09 04:36:34 Macer: please stop trolling Aug 09 04:36:54 in that case, apple is hugely more poplular than android Aug 09 04:37:07 well. i'm not but ok. onthe brighter side... the front cam works great in maemo Aug 09 04:37:12 and synbian is insainly more popular than all Aug 09 04:37:15 i was surprised how well it video chatted :) Aug 09 04:38:13 Macer: please stop trolling Aug 09 04:38:57 er. i wasn't. i was talking about using my n900 front cam for video chatting over skype and gtalk that worked well Aug 09 04:42:07 nokia holds 75% of the chinese market share. wow. doesn't show which operating systems tho. Aug 09 05:08:08 Hi, Is autobuilder still down? Aug 09 05:33:12 achipa: Cool, thanks Aug 09 05:53:07 hey guys, i'm looking to develop an event based application.. I've done my share of android deving and find it does things poorly here - you basically must poll here Aug 09 05:53:21 but I'm wondering how maemo does with sockets being left open over time Aug 09 05:53:32 do they become stale as a result of power saving or anything? Aug 09 05:53:53 they might get reset if the network connection changes Aug 09 05:54:45 but so lets say things are pretty stable, when the phone isn't doing anything for a moment or lets say the screen turns off, the sockets are still good? Aug 09 05:55:06 oh and is my application told when the sockets are ... killed? Aug 09 05:55:21 android... they just are stale, you have no way of telling unless you watch for timeouts Aug 09 05:56:04 should work just like any other Linux system Aug 09 05:56:04 completely new to maemo so I'm just seeing if it can help for these parts Aug 09 05:56:17 ordinary BSD sockets Aug 09 05:56:26 well I get that that's the api Aug 09 05:57:12 Maemo doesn't have any custom API nonsense (at least not for sockets) Aug 09 05:57:27 it's exactly the same code that would be running on your desktop system Aug 09 05:57:38 hmm, like I said, I get that and that's good Aug 09 05:58:03 I'm just wondering if lets say cell tower changes will propigate up teh stack "like it should" Aug 09 05:58:20 or shouldn't. Aug 09 05:58:24 yea Aug 09 05:58:34 if I lose cell signal, I don't want my connections reset. Aug 09 05:58:41 yes, good catch Aug 09 05:58:45 I want them to try to stick around in case I go back Aug 09 05:59:18 when/if it does timeout, I think you'd get an EOF on the socket Aug 09 05:59:32 yes, that's the kind of thing I thought on android Aug 09 05:59:38 instead they hung around :forever: Aug 09 05:59:49 well Android isn't Linux Aug 09 05:59:53 it's quite a different beast Aug 09 05:59:56 well, it is and isn't :P Aug 09 06:00:20 kernel fork aside, Android apps have numeroous layers of abstraction in between Aug 09 06:00:35 it could be running on HURD and nobody would notice Aug 09 06:00:40 rofl Aug 09 06:01:21 tbh the linuxness of maemo is a great selling point for the people I'm discussing this app with Aug 09 06:01:39 specially wanting to leverage qt app on the desktop being reused on the mobile app Aug 09 06:01:55 just had to make sure the socket stuff would work better Aug 09 06:02:13 *than on android, which it seems it does Aug 09 06:03:03 btw any updates on n900 successor? Aug 09 06:03:08 qt compatibility between a desktop linux system and maemo should be good Aug 09 06:03:20 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/platform-notes-maemo5.html details the differences Aug 09 06:03:23 that thing is taking its time coming out and its lack of some power disqualifies it from some :ahem: military applications Aug 09 06:04:16 worth reading, as there are changes to qt itself beyond the addition of the QMaemo5* classes Aug 09 06:04:38 ieatlint: +1. I just have one issue: a phonon bug which makes Qt apps not respect the system volume :( Aug 09 06:04:39 oh, interesting Aug 09 06:05:06 hnn, luckily I'm not looking to use sound just yet Aug 09 06:05:34 qsound may not work, but the qaudio* classes do Aug 09 06:05:51 out of context that's pretty odd Aug 09 06:06:11 i'd agree :P Aug 09 06:06:25 maemo wants you to use gstreamer to play media... Aug 09 06:07:00 directly in Qt apps using the gstreamer API? Aug 09 06:07:00 directly huh Aug 09 06:07:08 heh same question :) Aug 09 06:07:16 i didn't say that :P Aug 09 06:07:31 as to how you accomplish it... Aug 09 06:09:03 also worth noting that if you stick to qt, an app can be written to work on a desktop, in maemo, in meego and in symbian Aug 09 06:09:15 not sure i'm the biggest fan of qt or c++ in general, but that is nice Aug 09 06:09:28 anyway, the bug was reported and confirmed by other people (but officially still tagged as unconfirmed). sound works anyway. it just doesn't respect system volume (if you set system volume to low, the Qt app will still play full blast) Aug 09 06:10:00 ieatlint: well, that's the theory :) Aug 09 06:10:21 yeah, a theory that so far has proven only about 90% true Aug 09 06:11:06 you'd still have to be mindful of the UI of course (form factor and such) Aug 09 06:11:41 even so having c++ and alot of the qt util classes to use is great Aug 09 06:11:53 try reimplementing all your c++ in java for android :/ Aug 09 06:12:11 * Jucato nods Aug 09 06:12:28 i've happily avoided java thus far... Aug 09 06:13:08 * Jucato too ... sometimes just because I'm afraid I might like it :D Aug 09 06:13:31 so yea though, has there been any news in the last 3 months for n900 successor? Aug 09 06:13:48 phish3: talk.maemo.org is probably better to search Aug 09 06:13:58 * phish3 checks it out Aug 09 06:14:49 how about any definitive news on what Maemo 6 will really be? I've been out of the loop for a while so the last thing I heard was that it would be a something ("product"?) of MeeGo. Aug 09 06:15:02 oh yea so if I just bought a n900.. er should I just buy a normal model for development right? Aug 09 06:15:31 (ironically, again I am getting a Nokia device after it has been "deprecated" ... just like my N810 :) Aug 09 06:15:43 Jucato: there is no maemo 6, it will be meego Aug 09 06:15:45 and will it come out of the box with maemo 5 and qt libs are available for that without much mucking around, right? Aug 09 06:15:48 phish3: I don't think there are any abnormal models :) Aug 09 06:15:50 phish3: there is no dev model per se Aug 09 06:16:03 apt-get away or so? Aug 09 06:16:21 phish3: Qt will be installed by default when you upgrade the firmware to PR 1.2 (latest update) Aug 09 06:16:22 an n900 running the current firmware has the qt 4.6.2 libs Aug 09 06:16:51 upgrades automatic or do I have to download stuff to flash and run a special bootloader or something? Aug 09 06:17:15 I believe it's automatic OTA Aug 09 06:17:36 no root-preventing fiacos? Aug 09 06:17:49 not sure about OTA... i used the nokia software update utility, which was just a windows app that is designed for idiots to run Aug 09 06:18:20 that's good, I wasn't looking to foruming around for a day like I often do for android Aug 09 06:18:33 getting root on the device doesn't require a hack Aug 09 06:18:40 (which is also something to note security-wise) Aug 09 06:19:20 that's mostly good - I don't want the system fighting me if I have to do something more custom than normal Aug 09 06:22:02 software updates are OTA but can be flashed as well if that floats your boat ;) Aug 09 06:36:16 Is there some way to bypass apt-get over https certificate errors? Aug 09 07:08:12 The following NEW packages will be installed: Aug 09 07:08:13 libsdl-ttf2.0 libsdl-ttf2.0-0 Aug 09 07:08:25 trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0.6.3', which is also in package libsdl-ttf2.0-0 Aug 09 07:08:29 hmph Aug 09 07:09:22 btw how do i know which PR i have? Aug 09 07:10:17 kke, menu -> settings -> about product Aug 09 07:10:33 Version: 10.2010.19-something is pr1.2 Aug 09 07:11:53 anybody ever send a broken nokia back? was wondering about avg time it takes to get it back... waiting 3 weeks now Aug 09 07:12:18 n900 that is Aug 09 07:12:18 mece: ok cool so i got 1.2 Aug 09 07:12:50 dr34m, I got mine back in 3 hours. I didn't sen it though. Took it directly to the service people. Aug 09 07:12:57 dr34m, not I but have they given you any form of contact? Aug 09 07:13:12 dr34m: my e71 was in for over two months and didn't work even then.. (battery still goes out in about 10 minutes) Aug 09 07:13:43 brrr i brought it back where i bought it and they send to nokia .nl Aug 09 07:14:33 kke over 2 months :s Aug 09 07:42:14 ~seen qole Aug 09 07:42:18 qole <~qole@Maemo/community/council/qole> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 151d 15h 5m 47s ago, saying: 'Stskeeps, oh that's some great news!'. Aug 09 07:42:30 151 days... I guess he'll be back any day now.. Aug 09 07:43:33 o= Aug 09 07:44:05 :) Aug 09 07:44:10 ~seen Jebba Aug 09 07:44:11 jebba <~jebba@8.20.201.9> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 28d 6h 21m 32s ago, saying: 'Well, you better wear a helmet around here....'. Aug 09 07:44:55 MohammadAG51, I hope qole gets the meego chroot working. Would be nice to fiddle with it a little without having to reboot or anything.. :) Aug 09 07:45:03 we already have a meego chroot though Aug 09 07:45:12 Stskeeps: we do? Aug 09 07:45:23 Stskeeps: I haven't been paying attention Aug 09 07:45:23 sec Aug 09 07:45:29 * mece waits Aug 09 07:45:35 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/chroot Aug 09 07:45:55 swap images and boot that thing Aug 09 07:46:27 dr34m: It's summer so the queues are quite long. Aug 09 07:46:48 My gf took her phone to service and was told to expect it back in about a month Aug 09 07:46:52 MohammadAG51, well that's what I didn't want to do. Aug 09 07:48:16 I don't feel up to the task of actually installing that chroot. I'll wait for something easy. I think qole is doing just that. Aug 09 07:59:44 Morning, all Aug 09 08:00:01 Stskeeps: What's usable in the chroot? Aug 09 08:00:24 Jaffa: not sure, i haven't been dealing with it Aug 09 08:20:27 Stskeeps: is it time for an easy-meego, perhaps ? Aug 09 08:20:43 achipa: easy-meego is a bit of a problem of the extensive gl usage Aug 09 08:20:57 Stskeeps: I see... Aug 09 08:21:36 Stskeeps, you can't get to the gpu from chroot or what? (I really don't know how these things work) Aug 09 08:21:47 ah the drivers.. Aug 09 08:21:51 or? Aug 09 08:21:59 mm Aug 09 08:33:27 hmm, If I mash the buttons on my n900 at any time, even during the boot. It turns off Aug 09 08:33:43 usually not a good sign Aug 09 08:33:50 brand new too Aug 09 08:33:59 I shall investigate further Aug 09 08:35:06 jophish, some would say "don't mash the keys" but make a video if you found a new effect Aug 09 08:36:09 :D Aug 09 08:36:14 I might be hallucinating though Aug 09 08:36:26 Just got in from a flight from NJ to the UK Aug 09 08:36:53 he did the mash, he did the n900 buuuton mash Aug 09 08:37:25 jophish, well I can't imagine why you would want to mash the keys, but it still shouldn't reboot from that.. Aug 09 08:41:36 * MohammadAG51 mashes keys Aug 09 08:42:01 * crashanddie mashes MohammadAG51 Aug 09 08:42:10 crashanddie, gtfo Aug 09 08:42:18 :( Aug 09 08:42:18 :p Aug 09 08:42:21 But I'm at work, I can't go out Aug 09 08:42:35 * DuckBoot makes mashed potatoes Aug 09 08:42:39 work != IRC Aug 09 08:42:40 when he says mash, does he mean with his fingers or with his mouth? Aug 09 08:42:51 TermanaN900: with a spork? Aug 09 08:42:52 or with a potato masher Aug 09 08:43:01 Foon Aug 09 08:43:07 if hes mashing it with his mouth, that would make it reboot Aug 09 08:43:38 * MohammadAG51 chroots into TermanaN900 and executes rm -rf /* then reboots Aug 09 08:43:38 water damage Aug 09 08:43:49 * frals trouts MohammadAG51, irc == work Aug 09 08:43:59 agreed, irc == work Aug 09 08:44:02 ~frals Aug 09 08:44:03 [frals] a large smelly trout, or the developer of fMMS Aug 09 08:44:18 hehehe Aug 09 08:44:26 MohammadAG51, so frals hit you with himself? Aug 09 08:44:39 have you guys noticed that the N900 has an incredible microphone? Aug 09 08:44:56 yes Aug 09 08:44:58 and pitiful speaker Aug 09 08:45:02 microphone? Aug 09 08:45:05 The best I've ever seen on a phone. Aug 09 08:45:06 :o Aug 09 08:45:06 yep Aug 09 08:45:13 kerio, that hole on the bottom of the device Aug 09 08:45:18 kerio didnt even know it had one Aug 09 08:45:19 ooh, yeah, that phone thingy Aug 09 08:45:20 yes mece, marmoute no Aug 09 08:45:22 you know, the one you use to talk on calls Aug 09 08:45:22 never used it Aug 09 08:45:22 mece: well, I've heard the quality of the microphone more than I've seen it Aug 09 08:45:33 crashanddie, teehee Aug 09 08:45:39 :P Aug 09 08:45:50 kerio, LOL Aug 09 08:46:12 The funny thing is that it's much better than my ears when sound is loud. Aug 09 08:47:01 mece, i would assume sound quality of the speaker is limited to what your ear sound quality was Aug 09 08:47:05 * MohammadAG51 cloaks frals w/ Maemo/community/trouter/frals Aug 09 08:47:23 but obviously your listening to it another way than your ears to get better quality Aug 09 08:47:40 buttplugs? Aug 09 08:47:43 :P Aug 09 08:47:46 TermanaN900, well I meant that if the sound is so loud that my ears can't hear it properly, ie it cracks, the N900 can still record it perfectly clear. Aug 09 08:49:56 does the n900 screen tend to scratch in normal use? Aug 09 08:50:08 BCMM, it does in my normal use. Aug 09 08:50:20 BCMM, not really, but its a bit troublesome with my diamond tipped stylus I agree Aug 09 08:50:26 BCMM: I've got small kids, so I get dirt everywhere. Aug 09 08:50:32 mine hasn't scratched yet Aug 09 08:50:53 tracy keeps her N900 in her handbag and the kids play with it Aug 09 08:50:57 i've used a screen protector so far, whish is now extensively scratched by the stylus, and i'm wondering whether to replace it Aug 09 08:51:04 it does have some minor scratches, but nothing like the monster on my n810 Aug 09 08:51:13 lcuk: the kids are in her handbag too> Aug 09 08:51:14 ? Aug 09 08:51:27 crashanddie: where else would you put them when you go out? Aug 09 08:51:28 I have one proper scratch and a ton of superficial ones that don't really matter. Aug 09 08:51:41 no, but explaining keeping something in a hangbag with all assortment of things is not normally the most healthy of places Aug 09 08:51:46 anyone know of an n900 case that it can be charged in? Aug 09 08:52:18 the biggest risk is probably when it's kicking around my desk, plugged into the pc Aug 09 08:52:37 the rest of the time it can be in the case or alone in a pocket Aug 09 08:53:08 BCMM, tracy has tried 2 covers for hers Aug 09 08:53:13 both allowed charging Aug 09 08:53:38 she is geting one of those pretty covered cases soon (stick on plastic) so getting best of both Aug 09 08:54:53 BCMM: there's a pretty trick leather case fron nokia that looks cool but is slightly bulky. My boss has that one on his. Aug 09 08:55:11 i could get a "sock", actually Aug 09 08:55:27 mece: i have a leather case from nokia, came free Aug 09 08:55:33 covers the ports Aug 09 08:55:34 I use the 770 pouch thingie :) Aug 09 08:55:48 i kinda want that, but with charging... Aug 09 08:55:53 heh X-Fade i have a bigger Nokia baggie Aug 09 08:56:00 with drawstrings too! Aug 09 08:56:11 BCMM: this one I meant: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/carrying-and-styling/carrying-cases/nokia-carrying-case-cp-408 Aug 09 08:57:45 ~seen javispedro Aug 09 08:57:45 also, i'm veggie and kinda don't wanna acquire leather things on purpose Aug 09 08:57:47 javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 74d 7h 58m 32s ago, saying: 'oh.. aisleriot solitaire with clutter/3D vista-like animations! port port port !'. Aug 09 08:57:59 I got a screenprotector after I started noticing scratches, so I don't have to be so careful, and that's enough for me. The phone is very sturdy as long as you have the screen towards yourself when in a pocket. Aug 09 08:58:00 Hmmm I wonder where he went. Aug 09 08:58:28 X-Fade, gsoc meego Aug 09 08:58:37 DocScrutinizer51: did you get my email from yesterday? Aug 09 08:58:45 i thought i had minor scratches, but i can't find them now Aug 09 08:58:45 BCMM: Dunno if it's real leather. Aug 09 08:59:02 X-Fade: doing some really cool stuff with meegotouch virtual keyboard and gtk Aug 09 08:59:03 I put a screen protector on my n900 after what happened with my n810 Aug 09 08:59:10 BCMM: you need sunshine to see them properly. The sun comes out and suddenly it's all scratched Aug 09 08:59:23 bah, anyone else having trouble getting to http://doc.trolltech.com ? Aug 09 08:59:40 sometimes the stylus will draw a line through the finger-grease that looks just like a scratch Aug 09 08:59:41 Stskeeps: so meego has full gtk? Aug 09 08:59:53 mece: i'd say 'real gtk' Aug 09 08:59:53 frals, took about .1 of a second to load that page, so no. Aug 09 08:59:55 the stylus has scratched my n810 screen so badly that when trying to use the stylus on it, it makes a bad blackboard scratchy sound Aug 09 09:00:05 Stskeeps: as opposed to hildon? Aug 09 09:00:08 mece: bingo Aug 09 09:00:08 :P Aug 09 09:00:09 mece: cheers Aug 09 09:00:23 mece: i did a proof of concept libhildon for 'real gtk' Aug 09 09:00:27 noone has really followed up on it Aug 09 09:00:34 Stskeeps: well, the n900 can use real gtk can it not? Aug 09 09:00:36 mece: heh, i'm not one of the crazies who think fake leather just encourages real leather Aug 09 09:00:40 Stskeeps: Yeah, saw that. I wonder why he isn't here though ;) Aug 09 09:00:59 BCMM: that's nice :) Aug 09 09:01:20 leather is a big selling point, so if it doesn't say so, it isn't Aug 09 09:02:54 mece: how does that thing work? plastic back clips on, whole for cam? Aug 09 09:03:09 i had a red plastic case for mine. took it off because it made the device feel unnatural Aug 09 09:03:56 yeah, i was mostly looking for the sort of small case that you take it right out of to use Aug 09 09:04:07 just to keep it safe when charging Aug 09 09:04:59 BCMM, ok. no that case has a hole for the camera and for every plug and whatnot. It's very good that way, but it's not something you take it out of easily. Aug 09 09:05:24 it has a smooth fabric on the inside of the "lid" very soft and nice. Aug 09 09:05:57 Stskeeps, links to the gtk experiment please Aug 09 09:07:05 lcuk: planet.maemo.org Aug 09 09:07:15 or which one? Aug 09 09:07:40 mece: i did a proof of concept libhildon for 'real gtk' Aug 09 09:07:40 noone has really followed up on it Aug 09 09:08:13 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-June/003201.html Aug 09 09:08:19 as well as on gnome-mobile Aug 09 09:09:06 did you perhaps ping claudio about it after you did it? Aug 09 09:10:43 Stskeeps: o/ Aug 09 09:10:49 hello all :) Aug 09 09:10:54 lo wazd, how's tricks? suffocating? Aug 09 09:11:49 Stskeeps: Well, if I'll open the window - I'll die, if I'll close the window - I'll die :D Aug 09 09:11:57 Stskeeps: that's how Moscow looks now :) Aug 09 09:13:50 wazd: Awesome footage though. Post apocalypse like ;) Aug 09 09:14:19 X-Fade: thanks, that's around my countryhouse, not far from Moscow itself :) Aug 09 09:14:23 But I can imagine it is not fun to be there right now. Aug 09 09:14:52 X-Fade: looks like some giant zombie movie stage :D Aug 09 09:15:13 Hehe Aug 09 09:15:27 X-Fade: well, actually yes, I'm laughing more because I'm tired of all that stuff :) Aug 09 09:16:10 X-Fade: Have to keep my windows shut - about 40 degrees in the room now :( Aug 09 09:16:20 wazd, where are the photos? Aug 09 09:16:33 wazd: I can imagine that that is quite horrible yes. Aug 09 09:16:46 wazd, nasty stuf :/ Aug 09 09:17:04 mece: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=779527&postcount=538 Aug 09 09:17:12 28 Aug 09 09:17:40 X-Fade: hi there, is there any way I can get a simple way of acquiring the vote/comment URL for the interface ? Aug 09 09:18:04 X-Fade: I would need it for KISStester, it's the only big thing missing... Aug 09 09:18:08 wazd, whats the smoke from? Aug 09 09:18:09 achipa: the rest api? Aug 09 09:18:27 X-Fade: so you CAN vote via rest ? Aug 09 09:18:29 hee, important research completed! http://www.cube20.org/ Aug 09 09:18:33 lcuk: burning forests around the country Aug 09 09:18:45 o_O :( Aug 09 09:18:47 achipa: No, only comment itself. Aug 09 09:18:54 hi, is there a way to automatically update the applications menu when I install my (Qt) package? it's installed in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/, but the icon only displays properly in the menu after a restart of the device (the XB-Maemo-Icon-26 part works perfectly though) Aug 09 09:19:29 achipa: But for comment listing see: http://maemo.org/packages/api/v1/comments/data/1/450c69a4a68811de965317405429a5f7a5f7/ Aug 09 09:20:12 or should the proper path be /usr/share/icons/hicolor//hildon/ ? Aug 09 09:20:20 hehe "Mordors black mist has also reached Helsinki, thanks." Aug 09 09:20:22 this is even more sad photo - http://s48.radikal.ru/i121/1008/87/89244880cb3c.jpg Aug 09 09:20:36 and how do I get the "450c69a4a68811de965317405429a5f7a5f7" part from the package name ? Aug 09 09:20:44 X-Fade: ^^ Aug 09 09:21:02 achipa: That is the guid listed in the package info in the rest api. Aug 09 09:24:45 and this is moscow right now http://i070.radikal.ru/1008/dd/ef2cfb5cd10c.jpg Aug 09 09:24:58 X-Fade: I'm still bonked in the head, do you have like... docs for that api ? I know just the call for search and now the comments Aug 09 09:25:33 achipa: the search gives you Aug 09 09:26:12 Shapeshifter, why didn't you ask X-Fade to take down maemoreactor? Aug 09 09:26:30 X-Fade: d'you get my email? Aug 09 09:26:32 achipa: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-services <- OCS api Aug 09 09:26:48 crashanddie: Yes, but haven't gotten to it yet. Aug 09 09:26:56 X-Fade: is going through search foolproof wrt to different versions in the repo ? Aug 09 09:27:18 X-Fade: yeah take your time, I'd like to get your thoughts and GAN900's before doing anything Aug 09 09:27:55 achipa: It should only list most recent versions. If not ping me ;) Aug 09 09:34:59 X-Fade: sooo... can you tell me what I'm doing wrong: http://maemo.org/packages/api/v1/content/data/?parent=fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel&search=fheroes2 Aug 09 09:35:34 and I get the fheroes2-demodata package (even though there is one actually named fheroes2) Aug 09 09:36:30 achipa: Hmmm I do see it here: http://maemo.org/packages/api/v1/content/data/?parent=fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel&search=heroes Aug 09 09:36:52 achipa: Let me look at the code. Aug 09 09:38:24 achipa: Hmm it searches in title, instead of name ;) Aug 09 09:38:50 X-Fade: heh, no wonder the results looked kooky Aug 09 09:38:59 achipa: Let me fix that now. Aug 09 09:39:19 X-Fade: (Y) Aug 09 09:39:48 achipa: Try now. Aug 09 09:40:11 The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading. Aug 09 09:40:14 errhm Aug 09 09:40:20 achipa: flushing cache ;) Aug 09 09:40:41 okay now... Aug 09 09:47:57 achipa: I think I can get a thumbs api implemented today problably. Aug 09 09:49:27 X-Fade: that would be cool Aug 09 09:50:48 X-Fade: (as basically that is now only missing piece in KISStester) Aug 09 09:52:23 achipa: I'll probably use this api: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-services#vote Aug 09 09:52:32 achipa: I'm thinking of looking at doing some automated analysis on the checkbox screen, e.g. check /var/lib/dpkg/info/$PACKAGE.list for any /opt entries (or paths handled by python-optify) and showing the bug tracker URL. Aug 09 09:53:22 Jaffa: excellent - though note that optify is tricky business - it really should be done on the server Aug 09 09:53:53 Jaffa: as it's not really an optification bug if someone messed with one's own paths Aug 09 09:54:07 achipa: Perhaps; I don't think KISStester should do any auto-checking, but it can at least do the same heuristic check Aug 09 09:54:18 achipa: ...that I'd do when testing a package. Aug 09 09:54:43 achipa: i.e. it puts some stuff in /opt, or it's contained within the bind-mounted Python dirs. Aug 09 09:55:27 Jaffa: yeah Aug 09 09:55:46 Jaffa: though I'd probably suggest using something like os.path.realpath to work around symlinks Aug 09 09:56:51 achipa: I'll have a look tonight Aug 09 09:57:17 Jaffa: licensing is a tough thing to check, tho, as appmanager has no concept of it, and docpurge happily kills anything the maintainer might have put in Aug 09 09:58:05 in any case, all help welcome Aug 09 09:58:50 I'll make it packageable/buildable tonight, so as soon as we have the REST stuff in, ship it ! Aug 09 10:00:00 Jaffa, X-Fade: just wondering, should maybe the first versions have some sort of safety switch ? so that people unfamiliar with what this is about don't get trigger happy while we're only testing it ? Aug 09 10:00:35 (I already added an are you sure for the thumb to avoid oops-es, but was thinking about something more proactive...) Aug 09 10:01:31 achipa: Add a confirm dialog? Aug 09 10:01:36 achipa: Or something like that? Aug 09 10:03:18 X-Fade: yes, you have an areyousure on thumbing, but saying if maybe there should be something else to enable write access (talking about the testing phase - it would not be needed once it's stable enough to go to testing and extras) Aug 09 10:04:18 like 'create a file named rwtesting in MyDocs' or whatever Aug 09 10:04:58 achipa: Maybe don't enable direct voting right away? Aug 09 10:05:28 X-Fade: well we DO need to put it out to people to be able to test if it works :) Aug 09 10:05:54 achipa: Sure, but maybe not while testing the tester ;) Aug 09 11:10:11 * MohammadAG wonders why the N900 accepts a BT connection before it asks where to save the file Aug 09 11:19:44 hi Aug 09 11:20:38 I'm trying to sync the calendar with exchange using the built-in exchange sync Aug 09 11:21:01 after a bunch of minutes of "first time sync" it fails and says there was an error communicating Aug 09 11:21:27 based on tcp dumps I can see that the phone spontaneously closes the connection 30 seconds after last network activity Aug 09 11:21:52 so I'm guessing there's a timeout that causes it to fail Aug 09 11:22:19 I guess our exchange server may just be really slow (it's located in another office overseas) Aug 09 11:22:19 there is a thread on talk.maemo.org and a wiki page on maemo.org which have instructions on how to get log files from activesync, might be a starting point :) Aug 09 11:22:42 yeah I saw, I was just thinking if you know a setting for such a timeout Aug 09 11:23:10 a bunch of events flow through and the progress bar progresses about 40% Aug 09 11:23:26 but then it always disconnects after 30 seconds of "nothing" Aug 09 11:23:36 but alright, I'll try the syslog Aug 09 11:35:47 xkr47-DI you do that over WIFI ? Aug 09 11:45:50 achipa: Drop the confirm dialogue and make it go off /home/user/.kisstester-rw file existing Aug 09 11:49:08 xkr47-DI: if you have that autodisconnect app it might be interfering if the connection goes down completetly after exactly 30sec Aug 09 11:50:32 Jaffa: ook Aug 09 12:00:17 nas_, usb networking Aug 09 12:00:33 frals, no autodisconnect on usb Aug 09 12:01:50 ckk Aug 09 12:07:03 hey, new mobile maps version Aug 09 12:07:18 does someone use it? is it good enough as a satnav? Aug 09 12:07:59 kerio: Ovi Maps? Aug 09 12:08:14 no, the Sygic one Aug 09 12:08:18 Aaah Aug 09 12:12:55 hmm, mBarCode don't read datamatrix. Only QR Aug 09 12:32:12 hey Aug 09 12:32:16 sup? Aug 09 12:32:25 ZogG_N900: depends on your orientation Aug 09 12:32:37 straight ) Aug 09 12:32:46 then... the sky Aug 09 12:32:51 or the roof Aug 09 12:32:58 is on fire Aug 09 12:33:13 we don't need no water let the motherfucker burn Aug 09 12:33:13 damn hot here Aug 09 12:33:30 * mece just got a pair of koss PortaPro's for his N900. yay! Aug 09 12:33:49 koss portawut? Aug 09 12:33:54 headphones? Aug 09 12:34:12 I got a Kosh case for my n900. You can't even tell it's a phone now. Aug 09 12:34:59 meh. n900 is too big anyways on it's own. don't need case Aug 09 12:35:03 ZogG_N900: yes. Aug 09 12:35:35 mece, control buttons/mic or just headphones? Aug 09 12:35:56 sorry, on phone, can't google it ( Aug 09 12:36:17 ZogG_N900: just headphones. Old school, and very good imo. Aug 09 12:37:20 but is n900 quality is that good, i mean audiocard Aug 09 12:37:22 or chip Aug 09 12:37:35 i like to listen to music on it Aug 09 12:37:46 but thinking of cowon d2+ Aug 09 12:38:10 MohammadAG51: because there's a new package called "reaction face-off". The maemoreactor package is obsolete. (name change because of the trademark issue) Aug 09 12:38:28 Shapeshifter, I asked why you didn't ask him to take it down Aug 09 12:38:31 http://zx81.zx81.free.fr/serendipity/index.php?/archives/444-Pandora-FishFillets-Fish-Fillets-Next-Generation-for-pandora.html Looks like an improved fish fillets - game port candidate for maemo / n900 Aug 09 12:38:35 i know that you changed names Aug 09 12:38:37 MohammadAG51: Oh, I DID ;) Aug 09 12:38:46 I wrote him in here and I wrote him an email Aug 09 12:38:48 no reaction Aug 09 12:38:54 hmm Aug 09 12:39:21 Shapeshifter, btw, prime numbers are incorrect, or i'm a retard Aug 09 12:39:25 pupnik: how did you're lady like the weather yesterday? Aug 09 12:39:37 MohammadAG51: yes they are. Aug 09 12:39:48 MohammadAG51: I fixed it but I need to update the package Aug 09 12:39:49 mece: said it was amazing! Aug 09 12:39:55 damn you Shapeshifter, you made me lose a game Aug 09 12:40:00 D Aug 09 12:40:00 pupnik, no tent landed on her then? Aug 09 12:40:02 D: Aug 09 12:40:04 lol Aug 09 12:40:27 MohammadAG51, did u get ur bluetooth headphones ? Aug 09 12:40:35 no injuries thankfully. she said people had to squat down to prevent being blown-over from the storm gusts Aug 09 12:40:44 pupnik, insane... Aug 09 12:40:49 ZogG_N900, nope Aug 09 12:41:05 MohammadAG51, mwahahahah Aug 09 12:41:12 Bluetooth Audio on the N900 is at best choppy. atleast when you're streaming music over wifi. Aug 09 12:41:21 weather? what's that? Aug 09 12:41:41 pupnik, we had thunderstorms on saturday in stockholm too, but it rained the whole day instead :/ Stuff didn't break though. Aug 09 12:41:54 ieatlint, it's when it is really f* hot Aug 09 12:42:08 Weather: that thing people use to make up excuses for delaying or cancelling schedules Aug 09 12:42:11 it's been 11-15c here since winter Aug 09 12:42:24 when it occasionally dropped as low as maybe 5c... on rare occasion, that is Aug 09 12:42:50 like u Aug 09 12:43:00 I was blown out of my shoes by a storm once. Aug 09 12:43:16 Weather: That thing that makes women more attractive, due to less fabric covering vital parts. Aug 09 12:43:16 I never expected that when I went to see Gladiators being filmed. Aug 09 12:43:20 we have fog though, i haven't seen the sun in maybe a week Aug 09 12:43:28 if u think it isn't enuf use farenhgeit Aug 09 12:44:53 heh, it's 38C here Aug 09 12:46:17 lol DuckBoot Aug 09 12:46:34 i was in vegas last weekend actually, 32c low and 45c high Aug 09 12:46:42 i have some sympathy... dry heat though Aug 09 12:47:16 I'm in Scotland. High of 16C, low of 9 today. Aug 09 12:47:38 scotland sounds nice then :P Aug 09 12:47:56 Approx 23c in Oslo today Aug 09 12:48:15 * MohammadAG51 packs and moves to scotland Aug 09 12:48:19 i miss bad weather Aug 09 12:49:07 i don't think it's exceeded 15c here in san francisco for at least a month Aug 09 12:49:11 * crashanddie throws a bucket of water on MohammadAG51 Aug 09 12:49:16 there's your bad weather Aug 09 12:49:17 that is, on the western side of sf anyway Aug 09 12:49:31 ieatlint: serious? Such bad weather? Aug 09 12:49:50 crashanddie: we don't have weather here Aug 09 12:49:58 you just have fog? Aug 09 12:50:01 MohammadAG51: I was in the very northernmost part of Norway earlier this summer - ~24 m/s wind, 3c and rain - Is that bad enough for you? Aug 09 12:50:05 exactly Aug 09 12:50:06 just fog Aug 09 12:50:07 I'm in southern france, high of 38 Aug 09 12:50:33 summertime means 18c highs, wintertime means 15c highs .. it's a cold summer Aug 09 12:50:48 coldest in 40 years Aug 09 12:50:52 DuckBoot, no Aug 09 12:50:56 ;-P Aug 09 12:51:05 i haven't seen any snow for about 3-4 years Aug 09 12:51:08 the only way we know between summer and winter is rain.. it never rains in the summer Aug 09 12:51:13 well, since CoD4 came out Aug 09 12:51:44 MohammadAG51: I promise you shitloads of snow in the wintertime, and absolutely _no_ sun there for atleast a couple of months. Aug 09 12:51:54 MohammadAG51: is that because you never left the house ever since CoD4 came out? Aug 09 12:51:59 MohammadAG51: where are you? Aug 09 12:52:18 ieatlint: IRL Aug 09 12:52:52 crashanddie, LOL no Aug 09 12:53:03 haha, yeah, i was about to ask wtf Aug 09 12:53:12 how is it 38c in ireland and 16c in scotland Aug 09 12:53:33 ieatlint, ireland moves closer to africa Aug 09 12:53:38 moved* Aug 09 12:54:17 i'm going to guess morocco then Aug 09 12:54:23 what is the shorthand for your bloody country then? Aug 09 12:54:35 MohammadAG51: go outside and chant the hatikvah Aug 09 12:55:01 38C in ireland sounds unlikely. Aug 09 12:55:09 then move to Haifa and get a job you bum Aug 09 12:56:10 ah, IL Aug 09 12:56:17 ieatlint: he lives in IL Aug 09 12:56:31 not in IL atm though Aug 09 12:56:31 ah Aug 09 12:56:38 you fled? Aug 09 12:56:55 no, tactics, planning a war Aug 09 12:57:15 going to bomb apple? Aug 09 12:57:16 IL is not ireland. The religious differences are slightly larger. Aug 09 12:57:16 :P Aug 09 12:57:29 i can bomb apple much more easily Aug 09 12:57:37 Stskeeps, you could say that :p Aug 09 12:57:40 ok, so the military excuse for fleeing: you executed a tactical withdrawal? Aug 09 12:58:08 kind of, we're targetting france atm Aug 09 12:58:29 yeah, take care of france for us.. the rest of the western world will thank you Aug 09 12:59:06 MohammadAG51: can you wait 3 months? Aug 09 12:59:14 hmm Aug 09 12:59:22 maybe, if you give us 10k frogs legs Aug 09 12:59:36 they make better warheads Aug 09 13:00:03 MohammadAG51: after 3 months the probation period is over and I'm entitled to jobloss benefits in case of a war Aug 09 13:00:39 LOL Aug 09 13:00:45 also, anyone who currently resides in a country where the education system isn't better than france's is not allowed to joke about invading it Aug 09 13:00:48 in that case, no Aug 09 13:00:51 bah, france would probably just surrender anyway :P Aug 09 13:00:52 err Aug 09 13:00:59 healthcare instead of education Aug 09 13:01:20 healthcare in IL is almost on par with western countries crashanddie Aug 09 13:01:36 for starters, to anyone who lives in the UK and US, France has a healthcare system, and it works :) So there :P Aug 09 13:01:55 san francisco has a healthcare system, and it kinda works Aug 09 13:01:59 and it's not just a guillotine(sp) for every sick person? Aug 09 13:02:02 better than the rest of the country, anyway Aug 09 13:02:07 MohammadAG51: then again, most western countries aren't on par with France's healthcare ;), so your point is mooot Aug 09 13:02:48 crashanddie, can't see hoe france's healthcare's better Aug 09 13:02:51 how* Aug 09 13:02:57 Norway has a pretty good healthcare. Aug 09 13:04:00 hello Aug 09 13:04:15 MohammadAG51: that's like saying that your car goes as fast as most WWI-era trains. Aug 09 13:04:15 ieatlint: also, for the record, the Dutch surrendered before the French did. Aug 09 13:04:15 read history books, don't watch TV. Aug 09 13:04:43 yeah, well, they didn't have the maginot line to defend them Aug 09 13:04:53 :P Aug 09 13:04:59 In scratchbox , where I find libpthread.so.0?? Packages name !? Aug 09 13:05:01 i'm still bitter about vietnam Aug 09 13:05:40 i mostly kid, my bias against france is based on personal experiences Aug 09 13:06:03 crashanddie, you're not french, why do you like france so much Aug 09 13:06:08 people in paris are dicks, and i was stopped by customs while driving into france near lille Aug 09 13:06:24 and well, it resulted in the guy sticking his hands in my pants without warning Aug 09 13:06:36 wtf Aug 09 13:06:43 MohammadAG51: I love the country, I just hate the French Aug 09 13:07:00 yeah, i heard good things about the south, especially provence Aug 09 13:10:52 sorry for the offtopic , but i take some code from the sleeper.py app , exactly the part that do the draw but when i run my program i get some error : http://pastebin.com/wLZjD8ur , this is the code is not finish and is very very dirty and don't do anything yet, just want try the draw first : http://pastebin.com/Xm7Ft8gW Aug 09 13:10:54 Heh, you hate a whole nationality ... Aug 09 13:10:58 MohammadAG51: A few quotes from De Gaulle (a general who fled to Britain and then led France through the rebellion against the Nazis, ended up being the first president of the 5th Republic): "How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese?" "I have tried to lift France out of the mud. But she will return to her errors and vomitings. I cannot prevent the French from being French." and Aug 09 13:11:44 E0x: None with a capital N not none. Aug 09 13:13:37 hmm alterego what i dump ass i am Aug 09 13:14:12 dumb with a b not a p :P Aug 09 13:14:14 :D Aug 09 13:14:24 hehe Aug 09 13:14:25 thx Aug 09 13:16:55 bbiab Aug 09 13:18:05 france... a country that strikes so often, it does it at the world cup Aug 09 13:18:45 still, a country known for being arrogant dicks might be better than a country known for being ignorant bigots Aug 09 13:19:25 since we're already off topic Aug 09 13:19:32 new topic: politics Aug 09 13:19:35 * MohammadAG51 runs Aug 09 13:19:48 so, nationalism socialism... Aug 09 13:20:10 pablo2: should be provided by libc Aug 09 13:23:25 * RST38h moos at wazd evilly Aug 09 13:23:47 RST38h: hello :) Are you in Mordor or gone to the US? :) Aug 09 13:24:04 wazd: Still here, working Aug 09 13:24:11 wazd: Family left for .BY yesterday Aug 09 13:24:23 RST38h: good :) Aug 09 13:24:52 wazd: obligatory pic: http://pit.dirty.ru/lepro/2/2010/08/04/32845-075656-f1fdab3dc282c86c4fbef1f141aacb65.jpg Aug 09 13:25:04 RST38h: yeah-yeah :) Aug 09 13:25:24 RST38h: in fact at my countryhouse it was even worse Aug 09 13:26:03 RST38h: now it's much clearer brw :) Aug 09 13:26:32 wazd: Just wait until the evening... Aug 09 13:27:07 RST38h: well, I'm trying to get as much quasi-fresh air into my room as possible right now :) Aug 09 13:28:25 wazd: airplane O2 generator is the only answer... Aug 09 13:28:37 RST38h: http://s09.radikal.ru/i182/1008/cc/3965820eabb0.jpg Aug 09 13:29:19 wazd: The Mist. Aug 09 13:30:03 RST38h, one of those thunderstorms near HEL should clear the air somewhat Aug 09 13:30:25 lcuk: had thunderstorms here for a month Aug 09 13:30:30 lcuk: they do nothing Aug 09 13:31:06 epe Aug 09 13:31:08 eep Aug 09 13:31:17 (which actually looks weird, as one would expect things to at least get more wet) Aug 09 13:44:05 for all the "maemo is dead" trolls: >> This has been fixed in package kernel 2.6.28-20103003+0m5 which is part of the internal build version 2010.31-2<< From bug 10808 Aug 09 13:44:06 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10808 kernel oops on activating heartbeat trigger Aug 09 13:51:34 DocScrutinizer: yeah, I think the "maemo is dead" clan aren't really interested. Aug 09 13:52:23 yeah, giraffe stage 2 Aug 09 13:52:30 to 3 Aug 09 13:53:35 nice! my fisrt widget get draw ! Aug 09 13:53:41 now let make it do something Aug 09 13:53:42 :D Aug 09 13:53:48 I should make subtitles (translate to maemo trollish) for the giraffe video Aug 09 13:54:28 DocScrutinizer, who cares if it's fixed internally. Aug 09 13:55:11 If you'll recall there were at least two rounds of Diablo updates that never made it out of the pipeline. Aug 09 13:55:14 actually nobody. But quite evidently the assumption maemo development is abandoned is quite wrong Aug 09 13:58:47 100% totally wrong Aug 09 13:59:03 Hehe Aug 09 13:59:07 Well, we'll see Aug 09 13:59:22 I've been bitten by optimism too many times before. Aug 09 13:59:56 So now you refrain from any at all Aug 09 13:59:58 Just saying Aug 09 14:00:00 :P Aug 09 14:00:01 jees GAN900 did anything break? Aug 09 14:00:54 DocScrutinizer, have you seen how the live background support is coming on? Aug 09 14:01:18 vlad has managed to create the whole new control panel as well as a core set of cool new live items Aug 09 14:01:24 even a video one :D Aug 09 14:01:24 eeew, please don't Aug 09 14:01:27 Termana, yep. Aug 09 14:01:27 tis uber cool Aug 09 14:01:30 :p Aug 09 14:01:45 [08:55:11] If you'll recall there were at least two rounds of Diablo updates that never made it out of the pipeline. Aug 09 14:01:54 GAN900: as in, stuff we still don't have? Aug 09 14:02:01 lcuk: bat killer Aug 09 14:02:12 Termana, call it burnout. Or perhaps burnout prevention. Aug 09 14:02:17 sure DocScrutinizer Aug 09 14:02:19 luke-jr, yep Aug 09 14:02:23 -.- Aug 09 14:02:28 but theres many people who leave devices on desks during daytime etc Aug 09 14:02:36 whilst hacking on main computer with device sat charging Aug 09 14:02:55 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47371 can somebody explain me the benifits of this? :| Aug 09 14:02:58 Geez Aug 09 14:03:11 luke-jr, the community SSU project is working on releasing at least some of them. Aug 09 14:03:14 "I'm using over 9000 apps so I need to have all shortcuts on my dekstopzzsa" Aug 09 14:03:25 Dassu, sure, some people are unhappy with only 4 Aug 09 14:03:39 I think 5 would be nice Aug 09 14:03:42 I was unhappy with 4 but because it was way too may Aug 09 14:03:45 2 is eough Aug 09 14:03:48 and its entirely feasible to have whole homescreen for contacts and another for shortcuts and another for xyz etc Aug 09 14:03:51 I have 20 on my desktop Aug 09 14:03:59 I have like 5 Aug 09 14:04:00 "2 is enough...FOR YOU" Aug 09 14:04:09 I just use 1 Aug 09 14:04:10 "FOR ME" Aug 09 14:04:15 Well, it is for everyone Aug 09 14:04:16 and it has 2 rows of 4 icons Aug 09 14:04:25 people just fill their screes with shortcuts they dont eve use Aug 09 14:04:28 and a bookmark on each side Aug 09 14:04:40 Dassu, and? Aug 09 14:04:41 Sadly it's about two years too late for most people to care. Aug 09 14:04:44 they might have a use for them Aug 09 14:04:47 you dont - deal Aug 09 14:05:01 ... Aug 09 14:05:11 it is faster to search it from the menu then Aug 09 14:05:15 2 clicks Aug 09 14:05:19 for you Aug 09 14:05:24 dsadsa Aug 09 14:05:25 Dassu: desktop isn't for shortcuts, n00b Aug 09 14:05:25 never restrict users by introducing random arbitrary limits! If anybody wants 100, give her 100 Aug 09 14:05:37 TEHO Aug 09 14:05:39 "Her" Aug 09 14:05:42 Oh it is women now Aug 09 14:05:44 NOw I c Aug 09 14:05:48 NO help then Aug 09 14:06:08 ~attack Dassu Aug 09 14:06:09 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing Dassu Aug 09 14:06:10 DocScrutinizer, don't use PC pronouns. Aug 09 14:07:10 DocScrutinizer, or we'll have to ban you. Aug 09 14:07:15 GAN900: I will stop that, just for they are NOT PC, at least the notion I use them :-) Aug 09 14:07:55 never restrict users by introducing random arbitrary limits! If anybody wants 100, give them 100 Aug 09 14:08:10 'them' is plural Aug 09 14:08:21 luke-jr, STFU Aug 09 14:08:43 "they" and "them" are acceptable for singular gender-neutral pronouns. Aug 09 14:09:47 no Aug 09 14:10:00 English has enough ambiguity without such abuse :P Aug 09 14:10:17 'em' is a perfectly good singular gender-neutral pronoun here Aug 09 14:10:20 I think European speakers just like pissing off native speakers with PC pronouns. Aug 09 14:10:25 k, have fun. /me off for coffee (and popcorn?) Aug 09 14:10:45 Europeans don't speak natively? Aug 09 14:10:48 luke-jr, so you prefer he or she? Aug 09 14:10:58 luke-jr, not English. Aug 09 14:11:01 GAN900: can I use "she" if I ever write something relevant? :) Aug 09 14:11:08 GAN900: I prefer e Aug 09 14:11:20 or he Aug 09 14:11:23 I prefer 'hän' but that's wrong language Aug 09 14:12:12 Lynoure, is the person the pronoun is refering to actually a person, and female? :P Aug 09 14:12:44 GAN900: possibly. If 'them' is ruled out, I think defaulting for one's own gender is pretty sane. Aug 09 14:12:55 women/she/her are a subset of men/he/him after all Aug 09 14:13:34 but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun works if less ambiguous terms are required Aug 09 14:13:52 s/men/man(kind)/ Aug 09 14:13:53 Lynoure, them is proper and acceptable Aug 09 14:14:05 Despite luke-jr's grammar natzism. Aug 09 14:14:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Modern_English Aug 09 14:14:41 grammar tonalism? Aug 09 14:14:45 I like how many RPG books use 'she' and 'he', one for the gamer, one for the gamemaster Aug 09 14:15:06 DocScrutinizer: Spivak has widespread use Aug 09 14:15:07 That actually squeezes some usefulness out of there being two different words. Aug 09 14:15:56 sounds like a Czech Military Aug 09 14:16:18 or something I don't wanna eat Aug 09 14:16:51 did this whole brainfart occur because someone used "her" ? hwy the big hangups? Aug 09 14:17:05 lol Aug 09 14:17:39 why ^ Aug 09 14:17:41 lcuk: you don't want my speculation on that =) Aug 09 14:18:13 not really, i think DocScrutinizer's original point was much more worthwhile rather than bikeshedding about it ;) Aug 09 14:18:17 well, I said 'give her 100' imagine what had happend, had I said "give her 50" :-D Aug 09 14:18:29 DocScrutinizer: hee. Aug 09 14:18:32 ~50$ Aug 09 14:18:50 infobot: WAKE UP! Aug 09 14:18:51 * infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on UP! and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" Aug 09 14:19:03 :-/ Aug 09 14:19:13 lol Aug 09 14:19:19 infobot: wake TiagoTiago Aug 09 14:19:20 * infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on TiagoTiago and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" Aug 09 14:19:32 hi Aug 09 14:21:04 DocScrutinizer, anyway, now you're more informed about a stupid issue than you were 5 minutes ago. Aug 09 14:22:04 Can any of you help me with http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 please? Aug 09 14:22:26 yeah, my morning was so funny, even with tmo, I had no time yet for my coffee :-P Aug 09 14:24:06 Coffee is bad for you. Aug 09 14:24:47 nah, TiagoTiago is bad for me Aug 09 14:24:55 lol Aug 09 14:25:01 hmm Aug 09 14:25:07 commenting on threads without reading the original post Aug 09 14:25:14 how i can change the current desktop Aug 09 14:25:16 ? Aug 09 14:25:25 i try changing the gconf key Aug 09 14:25:40 but not work , i mean it get change at gconf but not visual Aug 09 14:26:11 click on the backgorund then on the gear that appear and then on the gear on the top left corner to see the menu Aug 09 14:26:15 i am trying do a widget that jump to N desktop when you preset the number of it Aug 09 14:26:22 oh Aug 09 14:26:37 not what i thought you were talking about Aug 09 14:26:38 like a pager Aug 09 14:27:09 def set_view_key(self, view): client = gconf.client_get_default() client.set_int('/apps/osso/hildon-desktop/views/current', view) Aug 09 14:27:24 set_view_key(number) Aug 09 14:27:30 do the change it gconf Aug 09 14:27:35 but not get apply Aug 09 14:27:39 in the desktop Aug 09 14:29:22 GAN900: though you're probably right, nevertheless I don't want to hear it. Your not my medical doctor :-) let's talk about OC instead :-P Aug 09 14:30:33 DocScrutinizer, don't do that either! Aug 09 14:30:54 why? is adrenaline even worse than coffee? Aug 09 14:31:04 * GAN900 wonders if last-gen Mac Pros will be cheap. Aug 09 14:31:21 With longterm abuse, yes. :P Aug 09 14:31:43 heh, I'm not an adrenaline junky Aug 09 14:31:49 Can any of you help me with http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 please? Aug 09 14:32:02 sure Aug 09 14:32:13 ~spell http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 Aug 09 14:32:15 only one word of alphabetic characters supported Aug 09 14:33:06 lol Aug 09 14:33:35 ~spell tornado Aug 09 14:33:37 'tornado' may be spelled correctly Aug 09 14:33:37 ~read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 Aug 09 14:33:41 * DocScrutinizer just had a weird idea of povbot maybe could do tmo topic expansion the same way it does for tracker ticket numbers Aug 09 14:33:50 balls Aug 09 14:34:10 when people post thread urls, it replies with the thread title? Aug 09 14:34:16 that would be usefull Aug 09 14:34:28 does it post the title of websites otherwise? Aug 09 14:34:33 because that's pretty darn handy Aug 09 14:34:44 better if it also quoted the firsr post Aug 09 14:34:56 bug 10808 Aug 09 14:34:56 i know a few irc channels that have bots that do that, it really makes it easier to know what you're clicking on Aug 09 14:34:57 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10808 kernel oops on activating heartbeat trigger Aug 09 14:35:03 that is handy Aug 09 14:35:37 ~google http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 Aug 09 14:35:45 balls Aug 09 14:36:01 TiagoTiago: sure not better, as bot will get banned for spamming then Aug 09 14:36:50 the thread is about the issue i'm having with the browsr refreshing cdrtain pages over and over again Aug 09 14:37:19 TiagoTiago: you're googling for a URL... :-S What's the expected result of ~google? another URL? Aug 09 14:37:34 hm, i didn't thought about that, yeah, many threads got lenghty first posts Aug 09 14:38:12 perhaps it would show the title of the page and an excerpt? Aug 09 14:38:27 i mean, Google Aug 09 14:39:22 everything >5 *short* lines is considered flooding here Aug 09 14:39:33 for the first result given the search terms, be it an url or kregu.ar keywords Aug 09 14:40:20 regular* Aug 09 14:40:47 me browses to kregu.ar, and drops a greeting not to Werner Almesberger in BUE while doing so Aug 09 14:41:02 note* Aug 09 14:41:35 gah! lol i remembered thee naeme of the browser wrongg, completly wrong Aug 09 14:42:06 lool, itms hard to type fast on the N900 without silly typos xP Aug 09 14:42:16 * DocScrutinizer registers kregu.ar doman Aug 09 14:42:23 Hi Aug 09 14:42:33 Hi Aug 09 14:42:40 hihi Aug 09 14:43:02 TiagoTiago, i get 59 WPM adjusted (w/o typos) on the N900 Aug 09 14:43:04 hi hihi Aug 09 14:43:18 w/ typos i get 68 or so Aug 09 14:43:31 djjk dakjdah dakjhd sdkjhda skjh sök skjhs skhsh dkiorqh sdjh Aug 09 14:43:35 156 Aug 09 14:43:56 sometimes, even ops spam and need a kick :p Aug 09 14:44:13 hm, weird, i got the yellow notificarion but the msg is missing in the chat history :\ Aug 09 14:44:18 ty Aug 09 14:44:51 wb Aug 09 14:44:56 :-D Aug 09 14:45:03 ah, nvm, it was just colored differemtly Aug 09 14:48:46 nah, now it gets silly on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60014&page=3 Aug 09 14:49:40 yellow notification?? Aug 09 14:50:51 are you guys all using pre-summit devices? the ones with "red and blue led swapped" bug? Aug 09 14:50:55 sent the URL via skype to my desktop, can't browse talk.maemo threads on the device ebcause of the issue i'm having Aug 09 14:51:30 nomis, i mean the yellow card in the dashboard Aug 09 14:51:36 if i don't have a receipt, do i get warranty right now? Aug 09 14:51:48 from nokia Aug 09 14:52:13 depends on the shop, I guess Aug 09 14:52:47 basically, as the device is not possible to be older than 2 years... Aug 09 14:52:56 oh, then ok Aug 09 14:53:24 yeah, the law says i have 2 years Aug 09 14:53:28 atleast in .se i dont know any shop who would take your device and send it off unless you have a receipt showing you bought it there, but dunno how nokia care handles it Aug 09 14:53:47 but then you might have to prove you bought it in a country where 2 years warranty apply at all Aug 09 14:54:35 i think nokia knows Aug 09 14:55:00 frals: nope, it's supposed to be irrelevant in which shop you bought the device. Every Nokia care center shall accept return for repair Aug 09 14:55:01 and yeah, it's only nokia for me - i bought it used Aug 09 14:55:29 Hmm is warranty transferable? Aug 09 14:55:37 usually yes Aug 09 14:55:38 DocScrutinizer: alright, never had to use warranty for any of my nokia devices so... :D Aug 09 14:55:42 huh? Aug 09 14:55:50 it's by-device Aug 09 14:56:02 Warranty is a contract between buyer and seller iirc. Aug 09 14:56:34 will i get a substitution for the device? Aug 09 14:56:36 X-Fade: afaik in sweden it depends, some allow it to pass to second buyer or such, but ianal so Aug 09 14:56:49 X-Fade: though you're basically right, the contract is transferrable, and usually not even bound to name of original customer Aug 09 14:57:08 perhaps if you talk directly witth Nokia and do not mention where you got it? Aug 09 14:57:13 I'd say, don't mention the bought used part ;) Aug 09 14:57:22 that's what i'll do :D Aug 09 14:57:34 it should be a eu device anyway Aug 09 14:58:00 say it's been a gift Aug 09 14:58:01 the limits on the fmtx ui are 107.9/88.1 Aug 09 14:58:32 are there any variations in the hardware of the N900 across the world? Aug 09 14:58:46 nope Aug 09 14:58:51 Yes Aug 09 14:58:59 ?? Aug 09 14:59:06 Hw keyboard? Aug 09 14:59:11 arrrgh Aug 09 14:59:16 :D Aug 09 14:59:26 oh yeah it's definetely an IT device Aug 09 14:59:31 whew Aug 09 14:59:34 oh, right, ok other than localized keys, any difference? Aug 09 14:59:40 nope Aug 09 14:59:43 yes Aug 09 14:59:49 lol Aug 09 14:59:50 charger that comes with it Aug 09 15:00:12 and sticker placed in battery bay Aug 09 15:00:19 and fmtx state Aug 09 15:00:28 that's not hw Aug 09 15:00:32 can't you override that by sw? Aug 09 15:00:42 is 87.5/108 the hw limit? Aug 09 15:00:42 Hardware tends to change also a bit over time. Aug 09 15:00:43 hm, right Aug 09 15:00:54 kerio, no, kernel module limit Aug 09 15:01:04 what's the hw limit? Aug 09 15:01:05 over time yes, over localization no Aug 09 15:01:19 and is the module opensourced? Aug 09 15:01:26 all modules are Aug 09 15:01:33 kerio, you can edit limits Aug 09 15:01:42 heard the new devices use glue to harden the micro USB Aug 09 15:01:51 you'll have to use something other than the GUI Aug 09 15:01:55 ooh i'm getting one of those Aug 09 15:02:08 the wallcharger doesn't always work Aug 09 15:02:13 if i installed the powerkernel would the fmtx limitations from what came with the device still be there or does it set it to a common value? Aug 09 15:02:14 and the screen is scratched Aug 09 15:02:32 TiagoTiago: it's mostly a ui problem Aug 09 15:02:47 TiagoTiago, afaik fmtx state is in cal Aug 09 15:02:47 with v4l-ctl you can go 87.5-108 Aug 09 15:02:48 do you think it is possible to have the keyboard changed in a nokia center? Aug 09 15:02:57 MohammadAG51: correct Aug 09 15:03:00 romen: probably not Aug 09 15:03:07 so the GUI will only show values for the region set in cal Aug 09 15:03:10 but you can change your layout Aug 09 15:03:11 fmtx-faker helps Aug 09 15:03:16 It would be pretty awesome if Nokia had a warranty like NSD (makers of the Powerball) offers Aug 09 15:03:19 romen: most likely yes Aug 09 15:03:31 romen, changing the keymat is piss easy Aug 09 15:03:32 romen: I changed it myself though Aug 09 15:03:38 yep Aug 09 15:03:40 two screws, then pry it Aug 09 15:03:48 yep Aug 09 15:03:50 i did with the screen & device on Aug 09 15:03:57 TiagoTiago: like? Aug 09 15:04:04 MohammadAG51, I'm quite scared of opening it xD Aug 09 15:04:14 it's not opening the whole device :) Aug 09 15:04:21 romen: you're not exactly "opening" it Aug 09 15:04:45 oh, for the record, i just turned 17, so i'm not an engineer or something Aug 09 15:04:47 it's the two torx screws under keyboard Aug 09 15:05:01 MohammadAG51: does it replace the fmtxd? Aug 09 15:05:08 because i have jacekowski's Aug 09 15:05:14 kerio, no, it reports a different region Aug 09 15:05:18 Worldwide, lifetime waranty, if you prove you got one made by them they will send you replacement parts no questions asked Aug 09 15:05:20 instead of the one in cal Aug 09 15:05:31 kerio, so you can use both Aug 09 15:05:35 neat Aug 09 15:06:07 MohammadAG51, nor a grammarian, apparently. :P Aug 09 15:06:18 DocScrutinizer, the two on the bottom of the rear side (bottom left and bottom right corners)? Aug 09 15:06:28 yep Aug 09 15:06:43 the other 4 are Phillips Aug 09 15:06:44 GAN900, err? :p Aug 09 15:06:50 PH0 afaik Aug 09 15:07:06 the torx screws are T6 i think Aug 09 15:07:06 DocScrutinizer, and where can I find spare parts? Aug 09 15:07:15 that's the hard part Aug 09 15:07:17 as many times as you need Aug 09 15:07:19 spare parts for what? Aug 09 15:07:29 i used the same screws Aug 09 15:07:35 disassembled it 4 times Aug 09 15:07:53 http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900?page=1 Aug 09 15:08:06 NSD rocks! :D Aug 09 15:08:08 http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/ Aug 09 15:08:39 MohammadAG51, I have a N900 with finnish keyboard (as I'm living here and bought it here) but as I'm not a finnish/swedish speaker (even less a writer!!) the localized keyboard is quite uncomfortable Aug 09 15:09:13 romen: ^^^ Aug 09 15:09:21 esp the arrows, Aug 09 15:09:25 saremi is where I got my QWERTY Aug 09 15:10:01 MohammadAG51: fmtx-faker did jack shit Aug 09 15:10:04 ._. Aug 09 15:10:24 MohammadAG51, right, especially the arrows xD Aug 09 15:10:35 kerio, reboot Aug 09 15:10:37 hmm... is there a way for nokia to check for past overclock? Aug 09 15:10:41 MohammadAG51: i did Aug 09 15:10:43 DocScrutinizer, I'm checking thos 2, thanks! Aug 09 15:11:11 kerio, set region Aug 09 15:11:18 romen: if you need help on keyboard remapping ask here Aug 09 15:11:31 * GAN900 has dark spots on his screen. :( Aug 09 15:11:47 :( Aug 09 15:12:04 GAN900: stop spilling coffee on it Aug 09 15:12:14 romen: inserting the new keymat is a bit tricky, as you need to do it both keymat and frame same time, but it definitely works Aug 09 15:12:33 MohammadAG51: how do i do that? Aug 09 15:12:45 fmtx-faker-tool --help Aug 09 15:12:56 kerio, the thing is that as also the US N900 keymap is not really "standard" (due to size) just changing the keymap wouldn't be enough for me, as I would get crazy in looking for blue keys and the rightmost part of the keyboard would be completely different Aug 09 15:13:14 did you use a magnifying glass to read tiny text in a sunny day? Aug 09 15:13:52 romen: so you're quite out of options then Aug 09 15:14:07 Stskeeps, must be somebody else, I don't drin coffee. Aug 09 15:14:37 GAN900: it's the rot from talk.maemo.org seeping into your n900 then Aug 09 15:14:41 replace keymat + layout and you're done Aug 09 15:14:50 Could be that Aug 09 15:14:58 MohammadAG51, how hard is that? Aug 09 15:15:04 GAN900: dark spots on LCD ts are a known problem Aug 09 15:15:06 Either way, it's going back to Nokia in a month. Aug 09 15:15:14 romen: the solution is obviously to learn swedish so you can use the keyboard properly... ;-) Aug 09 15:15:17 caused by too much force applied Aug 09 15:15:20 replacing keymat+frame? Aug 09 15:15:22 * GAN900 wonders if they'll do another proto round. Aug 09 15:15:31 romen: only keymat Aug 09 15:15:51 does the screen got tiny lenses that would focus the sunlight and burn stuff inside? Aug 09 15:16:22 romen: http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4575_Original-Nokia-N900-Keypad-QWERTY--english-.html Aug 09 15:16:44 MohammadAG51: even with other/50 i get the usual restriction Aug 09 15:16:45 frals, yeah maybe, but still I will not use the Å, Ö, Ä keys very often I don't have so many sedish/finnish correspondants xD Aug 09 15:17:04 (not to speak about the arrows xD) Aug 09 15:17:21 åäö is the shit ;-) Aug 09 15:18:22 DocScrutinizer, my german is somewhere near my finnish/swedish, do they ship to finland? Aug 09 15:18:37 dunno, but probably yes Aug 09 15:20:37 is that your finnish? Aug 09 15:20:58 DocScrutinizer, thanks! Anyway I will try to ask to some Nokia center near here if it is possible to change the keyboard through them, as I guess that with shipping costs to Finland the price will grow considerably Aug 09 15:21:24 TiagoTiago, my finnish, swedish and german are all around a level of 0 xD Aug 09 15:21:42 (among many other languages, unfortunately) Aug 09 15:22:01 could you get the parts from somthing like ebay and have the service tcenter assemble it for you? Aug 09 15:22:20 hmm look like the desktop switching can get done via dbus , where i can find reference of maemo dbus ? Aug 09 15:22:21 if you bribe them, sure Aug 09 15:22:30 dbus-monitor Aug 09 15:22:32 :) Aug 09 15:22:33 :\ Aug 09 15:22:46 romen: I'd say any Nokia center is supposed to perform this perfectly legitimate request Aug 09 15:23:28 TiagoTiago, do yuo think it would be even remotely possible?? In Italy (I'm Italian) they would be quite rude if I ask them to replace the keyboard of my device with a spare part provided by myself Aug 09 15:24:12 well actually in my home town I've always had troubles with the only nokia (nad other brands) care center Aug 09 15:24:56 if the spare part is made by the same brand and intended to be used with that device, what would they have against it? Aug 09 15:25:58 romen: will your car repair shop be happy when you come for a oil swap and bring your own oil? Aug 09 15:26:19 TiagoTiago, that they cannot (over)charge you for it, therefore they will be surely able to come up with some (apparently to them) good reason to refuse it (and there will be nobody to complain with if you think the reason is not valid at all) Aug 09 15:27:25 DocScrutinizer, luckily I don't yet own a car: so many troubles, expenses and taxes xD Aug 09 15:27:45 what if you offer to pay them the equivalent to the profit they would have if you bought an equivalent part from them? Aug 09 15:28:05 as i said, bribe them Aug 09 15:28:23 ah Aug 09 15:28:32 TiagoTiago: won't fly, as they are liable for the quality of the work, and you might bring a component with hidden defect Aug 09 15:28:53 i see Aug 09 15:29:02 TiagoTiago, they would not admit that the real reason is that they would overcharge you for the spare part in addition to the workload for exchange the parts xD, kerio's solution is more fashionable in Italy xD Aug 09 15:29:21 romen: IT_it here Aug 09 15:29:25 sadly Aug 09 15:29:31 it's a warranty voiding procedure? Aug 09 15:29:37 well, maybe if you come and just ask to *help you* do the swap, then they might do it on a different legal base Aug 09 15:30:45 DocScrutinizer, that would be one way to start a good "bribing" approach Aug 09 15:30:53 yep Aug 09 15:31:21 does your lens cover make a litle noise whenyou shake your N900 a bit? Aug 09 15:31:34 not here Aug 09 15:32:00 mine does Aug 09 15:32:06 but I think tis' actaully the stand Aug 09 15:32:20 hm, might be Aug 09 15:32:33 yeah the noise changes when I open the stand Aug 09 15:32:40 its' a lot more loose Aug 09 15:32:48 anyway before buying it from germany and try to do it myself I'll ask here in Finland if they can "regularly" do it and how much will I be charged, they are usually so kind here in Finland xD Aug 09 15:33:11 indeed it changes Aug 09 15:33:37 lol, thanx for pointing it out :) Aug 09 15:34:38 romen: tell them you asked on Nokia technical support forum and it's just 2 screws and 10min of work, so they don't charge you for a complete disassembly of device Aug 09 15:34:51 hm, but if i hold it still the noise doesn't go away.... Aug 09 15:35:44 TiagoTiago, here too, there is something moving and making some noise on shaking near the cover lens, but it does not stop when I hold with fingers the stand and the lens cover... Aug 09 15:36:37 lens cover is notorious to have... issues Aug 09 15:36:56 TiagoTiago, and the little "shaking" noise was there since I unboxed it, is not something recent Aug 09 15:37:38 seems they even reworked the slider design Aug 09 15:37:53 ok, I think i've figured it out, it's the memory hard holder Aug 09 15:38:05 exactly Aug 09 15:38:11 I figure it right now xD Aug 09 15:38:17 *figured Aug 09 15:38:26 card* Aug 09 15:39:07 noobs, did you think about taking off the backlid and shaking it without the whole phone attached to it :-D Aug 09 15:39:16 DocScrutinizer, only now xD Aug 09 15:39:48 that's how I figured it out (well, 5 months is not so long to coming out with this brilliant idea xD) Aug 09 15:39:50 lol, i took of the lid and shook the phone xD Aug 09 15:40:27 TiagoTiago, my card holder is still empty, what about yours? does it make noise even with a memory card inside? Aug 09 15:40:50 no, doesn't Aug 09 15:41:21 though i guess that is not all that dumb considering we had just noticed that holding the parts on the lid still didn't stop the noise Aug 09 15:41:45 i don't have a card to put there yet :/ Aug 09 15:42:58 maybe you get a 1GB for free, when you get your next grocery shopping Aug 09 15:43:23 are they that cheap over there? Aug 09 15:43:46 I guess they're 3 bucks if you can find any Aug 09 15:43:51 not checked Aug 09 15:43:56 hm Aug 09 15:45:01 are the cards the N900 use also victim of the pandemy of falsified mass storage devices like how it has been going on with Kingston pendrives? Aug 09 15:45:25 is your empty internal card holder in the open or locked position (as per the writing on the holder) Aug 09 15:46:11 it make noise unlocked, but locking still doesn't kill the noise Aug 09 15:46:27 more noise* Aug 09 15:47:34 damn batery sucking progs Aug 09 15:48:01 considering the price of cards thes days, if it bothers you, buy a small one Aug 09 15:48:18 TiagoTiago: (falsified) yes, there are falsified uSD, see http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918. 1GB sandisk are 5.50, not 3.00 Aug 09 15:48:37 as to false cards, my N900 did not come with a card IIRC, anyway, when buying just be sure to buy from a reputable source and not from the low end of the price range Aug 09 15:49:14 then, when you have it, write it full of verifiable data and read the data back plus verify Aug 09 15:49:25 EUR Aug 09 15:49:39 say, for example an ISO image of some Linux distro (big file and comes with a md5 or sha checksum file Aug 09 15:51:35 TiagoTiago, what do you mean with "pandemy of falsified mass storage devices"? Aug 09 15:51:37 dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 count=1 bs=; (well maybe count 1000, and size-of-card/1000) then do a md5sum Aug 09 15:51:38 damn, just about 2 hours and almost 80% of charge used :\ Aug 09 15:52:00 yeah, a disease that has spreead all over the world Aug 09 15:52:37 * DocScrutinizer wonders if N900 might sufer same uSD Vdd shortcircuit issue on empty holder, that's been found on Freerunner Aug 09 15:52:42 doesn't the accelerometer support taps? Aug 09 15:52:54 yes Aug 09 15:53:00 even doubletaps Aug 09 15:53:09 and isn't the accel always on? Aug 09 15:53:19 maybe Aug 09 15:53:37 we could use that for mouse clicks and the touch screen for mouse hovering! :D Aug 09 15:53:46 cool, then my post is half right Aug 09 15:53:54 the other half i'll need to check Aug 09 15:54:08 dunno about batttery consumption though Aug 09 15:55:06 The accel is not always on. Aug 09 15:55:09 However. Aug 09 15:55:19 The 'tap' mode uses _lots_ less power than pollin it Aug 09 15:55:20 lis302 is reasonably modest with power. It's connected to Vdd2_8, so 'always on' Aug 09 15:55:32 By always on, I mean enabled Aug 09 15:55:50 mhm, that's a sw issue though Aug 09 15:55:51 tap mode just generates an interrupt on tap. Aug 09 15:55:57 yep Aug 09 15:56:14 As far as I'm aware there is nothing to handle this though, so it gets ignored as it's not exposed to software. Aug 09 15:56:20 honestly g-meter is *never* supposed to be polled Aug 09 15:57:04 if kernel driver does polling, then that's abysmal wrong and BAD(tm) Aug 09 15:57:23 Well - it's not really Aug 09 15:57:23 how often does maep update it's maps? I'd like it to re-download once a week or once a month. Aug 09 15:57:37 usually you have it in differential mode, and trigger on any kind of movement Aug 09 15:57:41 celesteh: The openstreetmap servers are at their limit. Aug 09 15:57:56 celesteh: they're running on donated bandwidth, and are pretty much pinning it. Aug 09 15:58:24 celesteh: In most places, there is not significant editing going on that would make updating much more than a couple of months worthwhile. Aug 09 15:58:44 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy Aug 09 16:03:37 Hi! Has anyone done nmon http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-analyze_aix/ for the n900? Aug 09 16:04:56 It' Aug 09 16:04:59 s a binary. Aug 09 16:05:02 There is no source. Aug 09 16:05:06 So no, it can't work. Aug 09 16:05:18 bundyo never chats does he Aug 09 16:06:12 gonna go eat, be back in a bit Aug 09 16:08:38 * TiagoTiago|AFK is away: I'm busy Aug 09 16:13:43 SpeedEvil: Did you mean me? There is source: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/nmon, and it only needs libncurses5-dev dependency. So I may be even able to compile it on the device. (gcc -o nmon lmon12f.c -Wall -D JFS -D GETUSER -D LARGEMEM -D DEBIAN -lncurses) Aug 09 16:14:26 i read that as "nom" Aug 09 16:14:33 tobis87: I couldn't see any link to the source Aug 09 16:14:48 Is there actual source anywhere? Aug 09 16:15:06 tobis87: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/n/nmon/nmon_12f+debian.orig.tar.gz Aug 09 16:15:32 argh I meant SpeedEvil: Aug 09 16:16:05 SpeedEvil: I use open cycle maps, and my area (london) is in the midst of ading new cycle routes and other infrastructure for bikes Aug 09 16:16:38 SpeedEvil: I should donate to the OSM project, though Aug 09 16:16:48 cehteh: ah - fair enough. london is better mapped Aug 09 16:17:17 celesteh: Aug 09 16:17:39 celesteh: I don't off-hand know how you'd convince maep to redownload periodically though. Aug 09 16:19:19 tobis87: http://www.mauve.plus.com/nmon - seems to work Aug 09 16:19:32 Though it's badly written. Aug 09 16:19:38 (coredumps with no proc) Aug 09 16:20:17 is maep better than mappero? Aug 09 16:20:26 dunno. Aug 09 16:20:46 maep is nice and simple in comparison Aug 09 16:20:56 mappero is a bit weird imo Aug 09 16:21:06 it can do more though Aug 09 16:21:12 instead of reloading it'd be nice if there existed sensible way to check if it has been modifiedvupdated Aug 09 16:21:26 * TiagoTiago is back (gone 00:12:48) Aug 09 16:21:38 ShadowJK: yes, I'm unsure if there is a nice way to do that with OSM/opencyclemap tiles Aug 09 16:26:20 SpeedEvil: Thanks, I will try it but I found that the source from debian is newer. I will try compiling it Aug 09 16:26:34 tobis87: that was the compiled version from the tarball you linked Aug 09 16:28:35 SpeedEvil: Yes, I know thank you for that. At first I thought it would be hard to compile it, but since it is only one file, I will try it myself. Aug 09 16:29:03 looks like an interesting tool. Aug 09 16:29:09 A proper package would be useful. Aug 09 16:31:38 SpeedEvil: Yes this is my problem, I would do it. But I can't get going with scratchbox. I don't have problems backporting the newest firefox to the my oldest Ubuntu machines (7.10). But I fail miserably with working inside a vm. Aug 09 16:36:55 I used to use Maemo Mapper with my n800 and it was birlliant, but the new version seems really unfinished Aug 09 16:41:34 well, i'm heading off, cya Aug 09 16:52:57 Hi Aug 09 17:27:09 How is Meego compared to Maemo on Nokia N900? Aug 09 17:28:36 maemo's a consumer OS, meego's not atm Aug 09 17:28:37 :P Aug 09 17:28:54 Ah, ok Aug 09 17:28:56 to me meego seems likes its for idiots(majority of people) and maemo is for linux nerds Aug 09 17:29:05 Buahahaa Aug 09 17:29:07 but i've only used meego on a usb boot on my netbook Aug 09 17:30:27 Maemo does feel like an OS designed for linux nerds Aug 09 17:30:35 It's like ubuntu but on a phoen. Aug 09 17:30:45 O_o Aug 09 17:30:54 that dont make sense Aug 09 17:31:04 considing ubuntu is not for linux nerds Aug 09 17:31:08 Ubuntu is for linux nerds. Don't get me started. :D Aug 09 17:31:16 If you use linux you are a linux nerd D: Aug 09 17:31:31 uubuntu is for people who still want windows but also want linux Aug 09 17:31:59 Ubuntu is way too difficult for anyone who's not "computer literate" Aug 09 17:32:18 that can be debated Aug 09 17:32:23 Sure everything is ok if the only thing you do is use OoO and Firefox. Aug 09 17:32:47 But people just don't understand why some stuff won't work on ubuntu. Aug 09 17:33:42 Windows is also pretty dificult for people that are not computer literate .. Aug 09 17:33:54 As with pretty much any computer OS Aug 09 17:33:56 MiXu, most comp illiterates/semi literates i show ubuntu to find it easier than windows Aug 09 17:34:12 mostly because apps are organized by category Aug 09 17:34:14 PhonicUK: I think it's easier too ... Aug 09 17:34:15 PhonicUK: The UI is pretty easy yes Aug 09 17:34:24 And the window manager is nice and flashy Aug 09 17:34:26 ubuntu is like the retarded dog in a wolf pack Aug 09 17:34:40 and all apps are managed in the package manager Aug 09 17:34:54 PhonicUK: "all" meaning the ones community provides Aug 09 17:35:01 even my mom uses ubuntu Aug 09 17:35:07 PhonicUK, my limited testing backs that up. Aug 09 17:35:10 but she was always in problems with windows Aug 09 17:35:23 which provides almost everything the average user needs Aug 09 17:35:30 all the essentials Aug 09 17:35:30 she's Really computer-illiterate Aug 09 17:35:33 Then John from Hickville buys Adobe Photoshop to edit his family photos and is surprised that it won't work. Aug 09 17:35:46 The only sticking point tends to be specialized stuff for Windows. Accounting, photo editing, PIM, etc. Aug 09 17:35:47 John takes his pc to service to have it fixed, and they install windows. Aug 09 17:36:15 if hes buying photoshop just to edit family photos, hes got other problems Aug 09 17:36:16 that happens too, yes. Aug 09 17:36:30 PhonicUK: Yes. Not understanding shit about IT. Aug 09 17:36:38 And that's 85% of population Aug 09 17:36:38 but I don't think that's too common. would happen with mac as well, if it was. Aug 09 17:36:49 Jartza: There's photoshop for mac Aug 09 17:36:51 pre install gimp and getting a gimp book is what i do Aug 09 17:36:58 But you do have a point Aug 09 17:37:08 MiXu-: troll Aug 09 17:37:17 MiXu-: sure, but if you just go and buy "photoshop", they most propably just sell you a windows version :) Aug 09 17:37:21 alterego is correct Aug 09 17:37:27 MiXu-, who buys Photoshop? Aug 09 17:37:38 KDE is far easier to use than Windows Aug 09 17:37:49 luke-jr: Yes, I am in a trolly mood today. But I'm saying Ubuntu is still way too difficult for majority of people, as people tend to be totally clueless when it comes to IT. Aug 09 17:37:53 all you need to explain is that they shouldnt buy any software and only use the package manager Aug 09 17:38:02 oh crap, here comes the smoke again :( Aug 09 17:38:05 MiXu-: Ubuntu sucks. A fair comparison is Kubuntu. Aug 09 17:38:14 my mom thinks meego was much messier and harder-to-use than ubuntu :) Aug 09 17:38:20 I tried meego on her laptop Aug 09 17:38:21 Ubuntu is only hard if yoju are too used to the windows ecosystem Aug 09 17:38:37 sdent from my n900 Aug 09 17:38:52 I just read about a study today that stated that young people aren't actually computer literate. Many young kids don't even know how to google efficiently. Aug 09 17:38:58 RST38h: looks and smells like you were right :( Aug 09 17:39:20 most people just type their question into google as plain english Aug 09 17:39:37 PhonicUK: for the most part, that's the only way to do it… Aug 09 17:40:40 MiXu-: abundantly apparent when you read some of the questions in #linux .. even in here. Aug 09 17:40:50 Yep :) Aug 09 17:41:32 not python-xlib in maemo 5 ? Aug 09 17:41:44 i saw the package is available in Diablo Aug 09 18:15:47 [notice] channel has been set to join-throttling with forward. For join events exceeding a rate of 3 joins in 20 seconds, users are forwarded to ##overflow Aug 09 18:17:17 if you encounter any recurring problems with this setting, please drop a note to any of the chanops (/msg chanserv access #maemo list) Aug 09 18:18:29 does purging an app clear its settings from /home ? Aug 09 18:18:47 nope, usually not Aug 09 18:19:07 though depends on particular app pkg Aug 09 18:19:32 aptitude... then what is the difference between remove and purge? Aug 09 18:19:55 remove just removes it's package, but generally leaves some junk behind Aug 09 18:19:59 purge removes said junk Aug 09 18:20:04 purge will remove config files installed with the package Aug 09 18:20:07 like, a config file that's in that path Aug 09 18:20:13 er, pacakge. Aug 09 18:20:41 usally the ones in home are not installed but created once a user starts the app Aug 09 18:23:03 umm ok ty Aug 09 18:23:04 as apt can't now about that fact, it depends what package maintained decided to do on postremove script. Best practice is to keep those files Aug 09 18:23:13 know* Aug 09 18:23:44 and any idea where hermes stores its configuration files? Aug 09 18:24:33 just a generic idea: use strace hermes, and check for the file handles opened Aug 09 18:25:29 2nd Aug 09 18:25:56 DocScrutinizer: "strace hermes" in a terminal? That doesn't seem to work. Aug 09 18:25:59 oh hell I still am 12mA above a real deep sleep... Aug 09 18:26:48 sorry, no idea what hermes is at all, so can't give better advice, except RTFM Aug 09 18:27:37 DocScrutinizer: I mean, the strace command is not found.. Aug 09 18:27:53 aaah, it's in tools Aug 09 18:28:19 okay Aug 09 18:28:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 Aug 09 18:28:36 chadi: dpkg -L Aug 09 18:28:48 gives a listing from the pkg anyways Aug 09 18:29:15 chadi: it is a damn phone... all stuff for debugging and such most devel must be installed from terminal... Aug 09 18:30:23 chem|st: no problem at all :-) Aug 09 18:30:31 good! ;) Aug 09 18:31:47 just wanted to make captain obvious happy, you will find some stuff provided in "tools" and some other in "extras-devel" Aug 09 18:46:28 To find the packages which only have been removed, but no purged, you cold just do "dpkg -l | grep ^rc" Aug 09 18:47:19 gah Aug 09 18:48:03 I've had my N900 since November, and never encountered the bug where it gets stuck saying "Media format not supported" at everything Aug 09 18:48:16 and now it has happened twice in two days :/ Aug 09 18:48:21 grrr Aug 09 18:48:32 :O Aug 09 18:48:39 * pronto hands ShadowJK a cookie Aug 09 18:49:08 * ShadowJK can't figure out how to fix it Aug 09 18:49:15 * DocScrutinizer blames ShadowJK for OC... err, nah Aug 09 18:49:25 very often I get this bug where it just does nothing Aug 09 18:49:40 restarting mafw-gst something usually fixes that Aug 09 18:49:52 but it's not working for this issue :-) Aug 09 18:50:13 have you tried turning it on and off again? Aug 09 18:51:16 super YAAY THANK YOU Tom Tanner for 'locate' package Aug 09 18:51:17 ShadowJK: added some mangled media file? The hw accel is known to blow chunks on oddly encoded media files, and won't recover from that until reboot Aug 09 18:51:17 I have too much stuff open Aug 09 18:51:38 I'd rather spend some time figuring out how to recover than spend half an hour on a power cycle each time it happens Aug 09 18:51:55 nope, not afaik Aug 09 18:52:19 It happens in the middle when I've paused and want to resume Aug 09 18:52:26 odd Aug 09 18:53:30 and nothing in dmesg I presume Aug 09 18:53:47 half an hour for a power cycle? Aug 09 18:55:59 Well I need to copy/paste stuff from browser into notes, save that, copy paste it back to browser afterwards and so on... Aug 09 19:02:28 but yeah, it would be useful to be able to reset the dsp from software Aug 09 19:03:03 very useful :) Aug 09 19:03:43 is it theoretically possible? Aug 09 19:05:37 skaven is a fantastic mod composer Aug 09 19:12:08 During flashing N900, is it possible to change rootfs to 27 GB memory? Aug 09 19:13:03 i have flasher-3.5 but i can not find any option for this Aug 09 19:14:43 ilius: rootfs is on the internal flash, not the eMMC Aug 09 19:15:04 you can resize home in spite of MyDocs Aug 09 19:15:12 (home also holds /opt) Aug 09 19:17:16 size of root partition is not really enough and not compatible with these much packages in meamo repo!! Aug 09 19:17:33 how can i increase it? Aug 09 19:18:53 kerio: what do you mean "home also holds /opt" ? /opt is part of rootfs (mounted in /) and /home is in a separate device Aug 09 19:19:06 no it's not Aug 09 19:20:03 /opt is binded to /home/opt/ Aug 09 19:21:18 whats the size of home? (my n900 can boot up right now) Aug 09 19:22:48 most of application files will be installed to /usr, then i want to move /usr (or the root itself) to 27 GB device Aug 09 19:24:06 hi Aug 09 19:25:32 microB keeps refreshing over and over again in some sites, what can i do to fix this? Aug 09 19:26:03 ilius: most of the application files will be installed in /opt/, because of how the programs are packetized Aug 09 19:26:46 kerio: how can i move /usr (or the root itself) to 27 GB device? this is my question! Aug 09 19:26:55 don't know if it's possible Aug 09 19:27:13 ilius: if you don't know how to 'mount|less', you probably shouldn't worry about all that Aug 09 19:28:08 isn't it just a matter of messing with the partitions of the 32 GB internal flash drive? Aug 09 19:28:13 DocScrutinizer: yes i know that, but i was not deeped into it, and /opt was not matter for me Aug 09 19:28:28 ilius: you can't Aug 09 19:28:36 :'( Aug 09 19:29:22 if you want to move /usr out of /, the you need to make sure it's monted early enough during boot, as maemo managed to mess up system configuration by mandatory use of some commands living in /usr/(s)bin ;-( Aug 09 19:29:54 DocScrutinizer: let's just move / to the eMMC Aug 09 19:29:54 :D Aug 09 19:30:10 or you fix that flaw/bug, by moving the corresponding commands to /(s)bin where they belong Aug 09 19:30:14 Doesn't the file system allows for trivcking the os into reading/writing stuff in a different place than it thinks they are? Aug 09 19:30:17 DocScrutinizer: it seems that /usr is needed before even any statup script go to run Aug 09 19:30:39 If there's a package in extras that uses much space on /, it's a bug that should be reported Aug 09 19:31:27 I'm confused. If I have a problem with the LED-pattern, should I describe it at maemo talk forums? Aug 09 19:31:32 ShadowJK: let's face it: optification is a bug on top of a bug Aug 09 19:31:37 ~optification Aug 09 19:31:39 optification is, like, a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Aug 09 19:31:48 And under which category? Aug 09 19:32:28 DocScrutinizer, I would just have had PREFIX=/opt/maemo/ , and called it /usr/pkg/ instead of /opt/whatever ;p Aug 09 19:34:12 somthing lieke symlinking the folder to another folder in the other parititon? (i don't know what i'm talking about, do i?) Aug 09 19:35:15 No I mean no symlinks Aug 09 19:35:19 TiagoTiago: you start to have a slight idea about what you're talking of Aug 09 19:35:39 TiagoTiago: but here it's done by bindmount Aug 09 19:35:43 TiagoTiago: try again ;) Aug 09 19:35:45 not by symlinks Aug 09 19:35:51 cool! :) Aug 09 19:36:01 right now stuff is compiled with PREFIX=/usr, and installed to /usr, then moved to /opt/whatever and symlinked from /usr Aug 09 19:36:18 TiagoTiago: like matrix... there is no spoon Aug 09 19:36:42 ShadowJK: incredibly stupid botch Aug 09 19:36:56 ShadowJK: did not undertand the initial though on that Aug 09 19:36:57 indeed Aug 09 19:37:51 i can feel there is no spoon, but i still see the shiny silverware instead of raining green code Aug 09 19:38:15 TiagoTiago: wrong pills my friend, wrong pills Aug 09 19:38:21 lol Aug 09 19:38:24 lol Aug 09 19:39:04 just be aware of the truth... everything is a file Aug 09 19:39:16 hopefully with MeeGo we get new enough kernel that btrfs or logfs works, so we can sanely have / on a big emmc Aug 09 19:39:52 with uBoot on NAND ;-D Aug 09 19:40:11 i want DumbOS on the NAND and meego on the emmc Aug 09 19:40:28 DumbOS==maemo :-D Aug 09 19:41:07 well, somebody would have to find enough time to port nand driver to work with uboot Aug 09 19:41:13 meego on eMMC seems feasible right now Aug 09 19:41:32 orly? Aug 09 19:41:49 and we can get uboot to work Aug 09 19:41:50 jacekowski: how's OM FR uBoot doing it then? Aug 09 19:41:53 and replace nolo Aug 09 19:42:10 DocScrutinizer: OM FR have different nand Aug 09 19:42:19 well, controlled differently Aug 09 19:42:24 why replace NOLO? it chainloads uBoot happily Aug 09 19:42:24 is there somewhere i can see a roadmap-like thing for opening up Maemo & company? Aug 09 19:42:39 DocScrutinizer: where would you store kernel then? Aug 09 19:42:41 jacekowski: hmm? Aug 09 19:42:57 get rid of 2nd stage nolo Aug 09 19:43:10 jacekowski: it's not like uBoot takes 127MB Aug 09 19:43:20 and shove uboot there Aug 09 19:43:31 and then kernel can stay where it is at the moment Aug 09 19:43:48 find the private key to sign it, and we'll all be thankful Aug 09 19:44:04 2nd stage bootloader is not signed Aug 09 19:44:11 only 1st stage bootloader is Aug 09 19:44:19 2nd stage is only checksummed Aug 09 19:44:39 uhuh Aug 09 19:44:45 Has anyone managed to replace the firmware with a bootloader and thenload Maemo and anythingnelse people managed to maeke compatible with the device from less firm storage areas? Aug 09 19:44:55 well, seems you need to discuss that with Stskeeps and maybe timeless Aug 09 19:45:07 they both disagree Aug 09 19:45:13 aiui Aug 09 19:45:34 dumbos should run the phone to call by dialing numbers and to receive Aug 09 19:45:57 1st. there is only one signature for nolo Aug 09 19:46:34 2nd. no signature checking in 1st stage bootloader Aug 09 19:47:14 i'll try to replace 2nd stage nolo tomorrow Aug 09 19:47:28 why was it decided to make the os be firmer than plain software? Aug 09 19:47:43 * DocScrutinizer writes a condolence card, to be prepared - just in case Aug 09 19:47:55 DocScrutinizer: i've already wiped mtd Aug 09 19:48:02 well, part of it Aug 09 19:48:05 mtd0 Aug 09 19:48:09 the one with bootloader Aug 09 19:48:12 why am I getting a 302 Found "error" on the maemo repos? Aug 09 19:48:46 phone can be booted from usb using flasher and then nolo can be flashed Aug 09 19:49:09 so cat /dev/zero > /dev/mtd0 is safe Aug 09 19:49:15 * RST38bis suddenly found another use for n900 Aug 09 19:49:16 MohammadAG51: great initiative on USB host mode Aug 09 19:49:27 jacekowski: anyway since there's absolutely no documentation about whole the bootprocess (that I'm aware of), I have not the slightest idea what you are talking about with 1. stage 2. stage and all that foo Aug 09 19:49:43 crashanddie: huh? Aug 09 19:49:50 1st stage - nolo x-loader Aug 09 19:49:58 MLO on beagle board Aug 09 19:50:19 2nd stage - real bootloader, uBoot, NoloScnd Aug 09 19:50:44 N900 has much lower...eh..thermal profile than a laptop, so it is usable at 35oC with all windows closed Aug 09 19:50:54 DocScrutinizer: deciding to release the binaries Aug 09 19:51:36 Got smaller screen of course, but still better than getting boiled alive Aug 09 19:52:49 crashanddie: ooh that old thing, well it's kinda funny how I posted a "I'm considering that" previously and then MohammadAG51 "decided" on it. Anyway I got the feeling the way it's coming along now users again will get it completely wrong Aug 09 19:53:40 DocScrutinizer, we discussed it here on IRC Aug 09 19:53:46 DocScrutinizer: it goes like that - omap boot rom -> read 1st stage bootloader -> verify signature -> run it or shutdown or boot from usb -> 2nd stage bootloader -> kernel Aug 09 19:53:58 DocScrutinizer: Well, having more people trying to reproduce it can only bring good things -- as long as you guys filter out the "doesn't work, sux" comments Aug 09 19:54:42 DocScrutinizer, and we all know the status of the project atm Aug 09 19:55:06 not exactly. Filtering of sux is easy, it's the false positives that really tend to ruin your day Aug 09 19:55:33 MohammadAG51: I'm not so sure "we all know" Aug 09 19:55:44 it's stalled, now we all know Aug 09 19:55:50 DocScrutinizer: then you need to find a way to easily filter out the false positives Aug 09 19:56:10 MohammadAG51: depending on your definition of "we", "we" already knew Aug 09 19:56:17 crashanddie: that's as impossible as filtering out trolls at server level Aug 09 19:56:47 depending on your definition of "stall" you seem to miss quite a few details Aug 09 19:57:10 DocScrutinizer: not if you ask for technical details (dmesg, amongst others), and fdisk information Aug 09 19:57:50 that's exactly the points that are going to ruin your day Aug 09 19:57:52 * RST38bis feels like he is missing on a personal conflicts of sorts Aug 09 19:58:09 once again, what is the matter? Aug 09 19:58:30 RST38bis: ??? Aug 09 19:58:40 i have taken a n900 into a sauna briefly Aug 09 19:58:44 RST38bis, nothing personal, normal discussion Aug 09 19:58:52 hmm ok Aug 09 19:58:56 pupnik, i put mine in a fridge once Aug 09 19:59:09 pupnik: is it still alive? Aug 09 19:59:30 mine feels warm all over after charging for a while somtimes Aug 09 19:59:42 no RST38bis but the killer was different Aug 09 20:00:05 MohammadAG51: maybe you noticed new users in #mhd, maybe you also read maemo_developers_device_queue wiki Aug 09 20:00:40 I did Aug 09 20:01:28 and then we need to clearly know WHAT we are hoping to get from a mass deployment of a definitely borked kernel, for mere test purposes, and we need to publish that, and we need to give users the means to accomplish on gathering that info Aug 09 20:01:39 pupnik: poor n900... Aug 09 20:02:14 Doc: massive suffering of tmo lemmings, what else? Aug 09 20:02:34 Isn't it a worthy goal? Aug 09 20:02:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrmIutAOooA Alright lastnight finland had VERY strange weather - stormfront at Hietanieme beach Aug 09 20:02:48 RST38bis: exactly - except hostmode devels drownng in the crap torrent Aug 09 20:02:56 of course Aug 09 20:03:18 * RST38bis does suspect few people really need the host mode though Aug 09 20:03:19 microB keeps refreshing some pages, mostly unusablr, any idea how i can fix this? Aug 09 20:03:26 i still want the hostmode :( Aug 09 20:04:05 RST38bis: well, host mode was just fun Aug 09 20:04:48 RST38bis: you're not a true NIT convert until you've seen johnx setup a complete desktop system with only his n800 as computer in a couple of minutes Aug 09 20:05:48 kerio: even my notebook uses less power than my n900 so get off with stuff using power... Aug 09 20:05:52 hmm... yes I can appreciate that but prefer bt peripherals Aug 09 20:06:57 at least one thing is for sure: publishing a hostmode test kernel prematurely, without proper announcement about what it is exactly, what we expect it to do and not to do, and especially without giving users one-click solutions to create proper reports, we will waste a big chance as no noob-user will give it a second try just for us comin along like "duh, we forgot: please do #a lsusb, #a dmesg>logfile, #a foo bar..." Aug 09 20:08:00 noob-users? on *my* N900? Aug 09 20:08:01 crashanddie: my management was going uweeeee when I plugged it to the beamer and used an bt-pen for presentation Aug 09 20:08:02 have you thought of integrating changes into titan's kernel? Aug 09 20:08:18 RST38bis, I suggested it, but it might conflict while testing Aug 09 20:08:31 hthey woll com ebitching at us for 2 weeks, then ask for a working kernel and otherwise turn a way from it Aug 09 20:08:55 hmm, I like the idea of something logging dmesg + usb statemachine Aug 09 20:09:01 chem|st: yeah, I did a few presentations using the N900's TV output too Aug 09 20:09:10 pupnik: it /was/ rather scary Aug 09 20:09:38 * ShadowJK has lost a DVB box so far Aug 09 20:09:39 how does the main camera handles running behind a visible light filter (like a couple of layers of overexposed phpotographic film) ? Aug 09 20:09:42 crashanddie: the office's equipment is quiet low so tv out is fair enough ;) Aug 09 20:09:56 wasn'r qucik enough to unplug it when thuderatorm appeared :) Aug 09 20:10:32 well at least that huge gaping asshole of a storm did not stay Aug 09 20:11:11 mord: see? we need to know what we want to ASK before we deploy a kernel for users to give us the ANSWER Aug 09 20:11:43 MohammadAG51: ^^^ Aug 09 20:11:52 sorry mord ETAB Aug 09 20:11:59 DocScrutinizer: np Aug 09 20:13:39 is there another channel for getting help with misbehaving default progs on the N900? Aug 09 20:13:40 chem|st: you not being stupid makes me wonder what you mean about 'notebook uses less power than n900' Aug 09 20:13:50 crashanddie: you also seen red areas bleeding out to the right, on TV out? Aug 09 20:14:28 crashanddie: like chan tabs in red on xchat illegible Aug 09 20:14:34 DocScrutinizer: can't say I have Aug 09 20:14:45 maybe just my TV Aug 09 20:14:58 DocScrutinizer: I only used pictures generated from PPT Aug 09 20:15:21 you should try on a different device Aug 09 20:15:27 Doc: for a variety of reasons you wont get good tv output from N900 Aug 09 20:15:41 RST38bis: I'm aware Aug 09 20:15:59 * lcuk has variable experience with tvout Aug 09 20:16:01 but that particular effect is kinda bug Aug 09 20:16:15 naah Aug 09 20:16:55 red/blue bleeding is standard when trying to show high contrast digital picture on tv Aug 09 20:17:25 mhm, ack Aug 09 20:17:30 and you have got a pal tv right? Aug 09 20:17:39 so the contrast too high on my TV Aug 09 20:17:44 yep Aug 09 20:17:52 got any test pic that would make that effeect obvious i can have? Aug 09 20:17:57 yea if you can lower it do Aug 09 20:18:21 or you can try lowering it with resistors Aug 09 20:18:40 well it's probably the sensitivity of AV-in of TV that's mismatched to N900 Aug 09 20:18:51 yep, exactly Aug 09 20:18:53 resistors. Aug 09 20:20:25 i haven't noticed any artifacts in my tv while display the tv-out from my N900 so far Aug 09 20:20:53 DocScrutinizer: Could you not just make this experimental kernel dependend on a script which runs in the background. And this script would query all informations you would need and send these if the wifi would be connected? I don't like the idea, since it is how mirco$oft would do it, but it may be neccacery for the noobs. Aug 09 20:22:10 i mean, other than the stretching due to brightenss and thefuvked up tops scanlines; but those issues are of the TV hardware itself, any input will have them Aug 09 20:22:26 fucked up* Aug 09 20:23:06 not quite Aug 09 20:23:36 tobis87: sure we could - just we didn't discuss THAT yet Aug 09 20:23:45 digital sources tend to generate high contrast output with higher resolution than tv can handle Aug 09 20:24:24 hm, i've just switched it to pal and it's a mess Aug 09 20:24:24 this causes all kinds of artefacts, especially if this analog output is shown at digital tv panel Aug 09 20:24:54 (TV-out) http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10054 Aug 09 20:25:03 DocScrutinizer: This just came to my mind, I think they did something like this for ubuntu as well, I remember uninstalling it was first thing I did. Aug 09 20:25:26 gonna try hooking up directly to the TV insteada going thru the VCR to see if gets any better Aug 09 20:26:41 does X11 have temporal dithering? Aug 09 20:27:46 damn fatass CRT with plugs only in the behind :/ Aug 09 20:28:48 pupnik: ?? only with >200fps? Aug 09 20:29:45 DocScrutinizer: i dislike banding, my eyes seem to be very sensitive to it Aug 09 20:30:41 you mean that rainbow thing seen on colorwheel projectors? Aug 09 20:32:17 curious, my TV doesn't even show colors with PAL directly pluggrd..... Aug 09 20:32:42 maybe it's not a PAL device? :-D Aug 09 20:32:49 like with 16 bit gradients? Aug 09 20:33:22 it acepts NTSC, PAL-M and -N Aug 09 20:33:51 hmm, but probably does no good job on autodetect Aug 09 20:34:09 which PAL does the N900 sends? Aug 09 20:34:13 seems you'll need to kick it to PAL Aug 09 20:34:19 pal-m Aug 09 20:35:03 set it manually to each format, still black and white, with some of the grays waving moire patterrns Aug 09 20:35:20 hmmm, xchat does not run browser on url click Aug 09 20:36:52 RST38bis: url hold Aug 09 20:36:54 it also got some dashes just above the screen (the TV is 4:3) on the top left side Aug 09 20:38:23 RST38bis: click&hold Aug 09 20:38:30 also for some reason it seems to wobble side to side kinda like how when the degaussers are running, but not as strong and no rainbowing Aug 09 20:38:56 ah! thanks! Aug 09 20:39:11 i need a new TV :\ Aug 09 20:39:25 TiagoTiago: I don't even own one... Aug 09 20:40:45 a program to gerate images that got patterrns like those ties and suits that flicker colored moire patterns would be fun Aug 09 20:40:57 generate* Aug 09 20:42:52 hm, now i'm getting the same issue with pal via the VCR... Aug 09 20:54:53 oh ffs my vibra is stuck again Aug 09 20:55:06 i really need to send it to repairs :( Aug 09 20:56:00 be back in a bit Aug 09 20:56:14 * TiagoTiago is away: I'm busy Aug 09 21:01:18 vibra? Aug 09 21:02:28 moin Aug 09 21:10:10 so did I miss any lasting substitute for pulseaudio? Aug 09 21:11:14 NO. NO NONONO www.collabora.co.uk/projects/pulseaudio/ - Aug 09 21:13:19 * TiagoTiago|AFK is back (gone 00:17:05) Aug 09 21:24:57 TiagoTiago: please deactivate your away script Aug 09 21:26:19 i live in ireland Aug 09 21:26:48 which means none of the major websites have any of the barcodes in their dbs Aug 09 21:27:36 so i have to like search for a while to get something that actually works in mbarcode Aug 09 21:28:24 pupnik: hehehe :-S Aug 09 21:28:41 pupnik: also a 'fan' of PA? Aug 09 21:29:32 PID PPID USER STAT RSS %MEM %CPU COMMAND Aug 09 21:29:33 1642 1571 user R 16824 6.8 42.7 /usr/bin/gemrb Aug 09 21:29:33 780 1 pulse R < 3792 1.5 35.6 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority Aug 09 21:29:38 end. of. story. Aug 09 21:30:13 sorry 'bout the away msgs , it was on by dwefault on X-chat and i hadn' noticed it yet u.u Aug 09 21:30:15 isn't it amazing how Poettering and redhat managed to shove that crap down everybody's throat, just for no good reason? Aug 09 21:31:25 TiagoTiago: use /away if you want, just make sure it doesn't pollute the channels you're in Aug 09 21:33:12 DocScrutinizer: that's the worst i've ever seen on any game on N900 Aug 09 21:33:39 allegedly PA was starting to do everything much better than ALSA (which has been managed by Suse/Novel ever since - nooo, surely didn't matter), and now we got another layer of soundserver over ALSA card interfaces, and the only two things it actually gave us which ALSA doesn't are audio-over-IP and hotswitching of devices Aug 09 21:33:40 need to completely replace both openal and bypass pulse Aug 09 21:33:50 yep! Aug 09 21:34:08 I did wonder, when pulseaudio used too much CPU on my desktop, how they'd make it work on a limited cpu.. Aug 09 21:34:36 the only two *useful* things, but then it also introduces all kinds of borkedness like the CPU usage and forcing a new audio API onto every app Aug 09 21:35:03 DocScrutinizer, arguably it also gave an API with comprehendable documentation ;p Aug 09 21:35:46 most alsa apps remain buggy until they become so popular an alsa dev has to come add the voodoo to fix them Aug 09 21:35:49 well, maybe the documentation of ALSA could be better, but that could have been done Aug 09 21:35:51 it might be fixable performance-wise Aug 09 21:36:02 nah Aug 09 21:36:26 but a few things are atrocious, like the behavior when underruns occur Aug 09 21:36:52 time to go kill a mewling kitten or two Aug 09 21:36:55 heh, cheers nox Aug 09 21:37:22 ShadowJK: admittedly we had a long way to go until we considered ALSA working correctly, on twinklephone, but then I don't see PA is *any* better wrt that Aug 09 21:37:41 my experience with alsa and underruns has been that it does something like: turn up volume to max, play burst of noise, corrupt all delay measurements Aug 09 21:38:16 pulseaudio on the other hand seems to just hang and not kill my ears :-) Aug 09 21:39:21 ShadowJK: not reproducible here, at least since ALSA 1.0.1 or somesuch Aug 09 21:39:50 0.98 had a few nasty bugs still Aug 09 21:40:07 I never used alsa when it was 0.x Aug 09 21:42:28 anyway, I don't get it how you need to discard and rewrite from scratch a whole framework, just because you are too lazy to study the docs and sources. PA is no % better than ALSA Aug 09 21:43:11 ok, there are bugs in ALSA? fix then!! Aug 09 21:43:24 no docs? write them! Aug 09 21:44:13 btw -> http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/group___p_c_m.html Aug 09 21:45:18 I agree that's not great, but then otoh how many projects have a really better doc? Aug 09 21:45:25 DocScrutinizer: as you mention it... I had this wierd behaviour of low sound in earspeaker, once I just touched all controls and now it seems to be loud enough to hear someone... Aug 09 21:48:06 is there a way to enter text using handwritting in N900? Aug 09 21:48:08 sound behaviour seems to be random sometimes and even with PA niced all the way up there is still something having a hickup down left Aug 09 21:48:37 smhar: garnettVM Aug 09 21:48:48 smhar: nevermind just kidding... Aug 09 21:49:26 chem|st: there is a fix to pulseaudio Aug 09 21:49:27 smhar: for chinese only afaik (please tell me wrong) Aug 09 21:49:28 chem|st, you got me high for just a little Aug 09 21:49:32 chem|st: to prevent skipping Aug 09 21:49:39 chem|st: however - it's not public Aug 09 21:50:11 PR1.3, i wonder when that is Aug 09 21:50:15 SpeedEvil: the skipping isn't the problem it is to have no sound or scrambled Aug 09 21:50:33 well if the no sound means it skips then well... Aug 09 21:52:05 I still dont get why the drivers are so closed up... still Aug 09 21:52:33 are we gonna have Swype onthe N900? Aug 09 21:54:25 ShadowJK: btw I don't get what delay measurements you refer to. If you use a ring buffer with two segments of length N then you know the playback shall be off by N TiagoTiago: is swype available for nitdroid? then yes if not I doubt it Aug 09 22:00:08 SpeedEvil, will tha PA fix overcome the sip bug #10388? Aug 09 22:00:09 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Aug 09 22:00:25 pupAssembly results look uber cool Aug 09 22:00:40 digging through the js1k stuff Aug 09 22:00:47 damn pupnik left Aug 09 22:00:52 why isn't voltage used to measure battery charge while recharging? Aug 09 22:00:57 http://hackaday.com/2010/08/08/behind-the-scenes-of-a-1k-graphics-demo/ Aug 09 22:01:43 ShadowJK: also buffer underruns clearly will playback the old content of the other end of the ringbuffer. I don't see how they could start to act up, change volume and playback random noise Aug 09 22:01:53 it seems that bug is not a sip issue rather a PA/alsa issue Aug 09 22:01:53 js1k.com/demo/79 is cool as are lots of the others Aug 09 22:02:20 dunno trumee Aug 09 22:03:00 SpeedEvil, is that fix on maemo bugzilla? Aug 09 22:03:14 yes Aug 09 22:03:23 was something about choppy audio Aug 09 22:03:44 an internal fix with a note that nokia does not say when it will release releases at the end Aug 09 22:04:09 hmm. quick search doesnt reveal it Aug 09 22:05:17 TiagoTiago: why should it? Aug 09 22:09:33 I'm looking at the graph from BatteryGraph and it gives a decent approximation of the amount of charge in the battery and it is the only readout that contimues to be updated while the charger is plugged Aug 09 22:11:43 that internal fix and "don't publish any source before binary hits the endusers' devices" policy - just to avoid happening again their competitors roll out a device like pre with stuff Nokia "invented" and not yet shipped - that's actually so annoying... no words for that Aug 09 22:12:27 SpeedEvil, search on PA and fixed doesnt bring up that bug Aug 09 22:12:45 well, "annoyning" is a word.... Aug 09 22:13:49 at least if spelled correctly Aug 09 22:14:04 TiagoTiago: LiIon charging is way more complex than you seem to think. Yet basically it's stupid simple to charge, just to analyze state is a bit more complex Aug 09 22:14:43 like i said, the lines in the graph make sense Aug 09 22:15:35 you *think* they do Aug 09 22:16:31 SpeedEvil, i have given up on finding that bug number. Aug 09 22:16:43 ~tell TiagoTiago about batteryfaq Aug 09 22:16:46 DocScrutinizer: not only because they are founding OSS so proudly Aug 09 22:16:58 it's the only line updated while charfing, and the moment i pull the plug the "bars" and "miliamps" liines jump to pretty close to where the voltage line is Aug 09 22:17:14 if they put it OSS noone else can provide it closed anymore Aug 09 22:18:41 TiagoTiago: so complain with author of that batterygraph app? I'm not using it and I see no such problems anywhere Aug 09 22:18:42 unless they try to use the "great minds think alike" excuse/kiss-assery Aug 09 22:18:55 what problem? Aug 09 22:19:46 your problem Aug 09 22:19:58 what's my problem? Aug 09 22:20:05 lol Aug 09 22:20:13 yeah what's your problem?? Aug 09 22:20:33 lol Aug 09 22:21:08 which brings us back to [2010-08-10 00:05:17] TiagoTiago: why should it? Aug 09 22:21:45 trumee: It doesn't. Aug 09 22:22:04 trumee: I don't remember which component it was on, it wasn't on media playeer. Aug 09 22:22:16 err Aug 09 22:22:21 wasn't on pulseaudio Aug 09 22:22:24 maybe media Aug 09 22:22:33 SpeedEvil, hmm. Aug 09 22:23:01 PA fix? Aug 09 22:23:12 Well, other means to measure battery charge while charging doesn't seem to work, the battery icon oin the status bar for exaple doesn't inform anything about the current battery charge other than it's going up Aug 09 22:23:47 SpeedEvil, media and fixed brings up 233 bugs Aug 09 22:24:12 bug 7190 Aug 09 22:24:13 MohammadAG51, yeah. any idea which one is that? Aug 09 22:24:13 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7190 music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web Aug 09 22:24:21 faster than a bot Aug 09 22:27:13 MohammadAG51, thanks for pointing that out Aug 09 22:28:55 ecoach users? Aug 09 22:29:41 w/ the symbian app similar to ecoach you get altitude measurements as well - guess ecoach doesn't extract that from the gps? Aug 09 22:29:51 are there other better apps for this? Aug 09 22:30:18 tybollt, contact sampo, he is very receptive to feedback Aug 09 22:30:25 yes, that one MohammadAG51 Aug 09 22:31:32 tybollt: it does, altough not very accurate. gps recorder is quite nice, too. they both have their use. Aug 09 22:33:55 is it possible to filter The GPS coordinates before sending them to programs reading them, somthing like an average of the last few N positions weigthed by precision: Aug 09 22:35:07 weighted by their precisions* Aug 09 22:36:11 ? Aug 09 22:37:07 TiagoTiago: why? Aug 09 22:37:32 TiagoTiago: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS contains some GPS accuracy info Aug 09 22:37:44 I have not yet extracted noise info Aug 09 22:38:52 i left mapero running over nigth by the window and the track recorded when i woke up was filled with spikes hundred of meters away forom the center position Aug 09 22:39:34 Windows can be opaque. Aug 09 22:39:45 Some energy saving windows have coatings that block GPS Aug 09 22:40:39 the other day driving around the track recorded appeared to be the path of someonee playing GTA, with a tank blasting thru buildings Aug 09 22:42:06 like on that movie ( i think it was a 007 one) with the tank doing powerslides and demolishimg brick walls Aug 09 22:42:16 Same with cars Aug 09 22:42:19 some block GPS Aug 09 22:43:09 it would be nice if applications that can leave a track could be configured to leave a gap where the error is above a specified amount Aug 09 22:43:28 the point is, with a filtering like i suggested, i expect the coordinates programs get would appear much closer to reality Aug 09 22:43:53 same for ecoach, it only polls every two seconds - and sometimes, the position is way off, leaving a nasty spike in the track Aug 09 22:44:00 if i'm walking about in town with maep running, it leaves spiky patterns on the trace every time i go into a building Aug 09 22:44:29 also - you need a decent signal if you're expecting it to do dynamics Aug 09 22:44:44 BCMM: you can. Aug 09 22:44:45 if the coordinate has a precision of hundreds of meters it would have very little weight Aug 09 22:44:46 even in the field, without anything blocking gps ;-) Aug 09 22:44:50 BCMM: though only with grep Aug 09 22:46:01 spikes would be significantly reduced and made closer to more accurate emeasurements Aug 09 22:47:00 at least if the algorithm works as i expect Aug 09 22:47:16 TiagoTiago: The GPS outputs confidence figures. Aug 09 22:47:19 You can use those. Aug 09 22:47:24 Much stuff does not. Aug 09 22:47:35 yep Aug 09 22:47:37 This is a bug on behalf of the apps. Aug 09 22:48:47 many do show the circle of where you might be, but they still have the coordinate umtouvhed Aug 09 22:49:32 they are aware of the estimated error margin, they just don't do much about it Aug 09 22:49:42 they can't. Aug 09 22:50:04 with my algorithm they might Aug 09 22:50:10 Or rather - they can't magically guess what is the position is. Aug 09 22:50:31 I'm actually 1/4 through coding a software GPS in assembler for stm32. Aug 09 22:50:37 :) Aug 09 22:51:18 my algorithm should help them make a more accurate guess about the real position Aug 09 22:51:50 What algorithm - sorry - I missed that. Aug 09 22:52:54 current position = average of N previous positions weigthed by their respective precisions Aug 09 22:53:07 erm Aug 09 22:53:39 = average of current position and the last N positions* Aug 09 22:55:02 yeah the reporting location in your status had loads of fun bugs there Aug 09 22:55:04 if it works as i expect it to, it shloud reducee significcanrtly the imprecision spikes in thee recorded track keeping the points closer to the real coordinates Aug 09 22:55:08 That works but only if you know it's static Aug 09 22:55:26 note that every averaging also induces latency Aug 09 22:55:44 if the accuracy plummets and the position goes miles away, but your previous position was within the tolerance, and more accurate, it makes more sense not to jump your position around Aug 09 22:56:13 shloud work for moving measuremens as well, might need to also weight by how recent each prwvious measwuremnt is Aug 09 22:56:16 There is also the issue that most apps don't get the difference between GPS and cell positioning. Aug 09 22:56:18 doesnt i have a 'precision' for each measurement? Aug 09 22:56:25 cell positioning can be hundreds of km out Aug 09 22:56:27 yes, it does Aug 09 22:56:46 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering Aug 09 22:56:51 what is the precision reported for cell towers? Aug 09 22:56:54 yeah, the jumping from GPS to cell positioning would make people jump cities on their IM status depending if they had GPS or not Aug 09 22:56:56 though there is proabbly a better link to liblocation Aug 09 22:57:15 http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/liblocation/ Aug 09 22:57:48 so you can include that in your averaging .. if accuracy drops AND the position is farer of than with the current speed would be possible then just drop it or average it .. but if accuracy is high give a higher preference to the current measurement and dont put much weight into averaging previous positions Aug 09 22:59:14 there is this 'jspeed' applet which is pretty unuseable because it doesnt make any averaging btw .. Aug 09 22:59:20 i' not saying my algorithm is perfect, but i expect it to work much better than raw coordinates except in worse case scenarios (where it probably wouldn't be worst than raw measurements in terms of how wrong it can get) Aug 09 23:00:18 does liblocation really provide raw data? i expect its already a bit corrected and averaged in the gps Aug 09 23:00:32 firmware stack or whatever works there Aug 09 23:01:05 is that what mappero uses? Aug 09 23:01:33 no idea Aug 09 23:03:45 there is a tiny nic the smooth part of the "arm" of my glasses gthat goes behind my left ear, barelly noticeable but it's gradually scraping the skin there :( Aug 09 23:04:19 TiagoTiago: you could cover it with a tiny amount of nail varnish Aug 09 23:04:48 hm, that sounds like it might work, thanx :) Aug 09 23:05:23 nail varnish has a multitude of good uses Aug 09 23:07:42 cehteh: It does not. Aug 09 23:07:49 or you could use tape, since glasses with sticky tape on them earn you geek points Aug 09 23:08:10 cehteh: Raw data in this case would mean raw psuedoranges - which are the raw relative doppler rates to the satellites. Aug 09 23:08:17 how those military things work qith GPS, balls cooking powerdull antennas? Aug 09 23:08:21 cehteh: It does not provide that. Aug 09 23:08:41 damn typos Aug 09 23:08:45 cehteh: It provides position only, and information about the errors on that position. Aug 09 23:09:01 (well - velociry and error velocity too) Aug 09 23:09:16 Also sats and their signals. Aug 09 23:09:33 But no more detailed information that would let you usefully postprocess the signal. Aug 09 23:09:46 isn't actually signal/noise ratio? Aug 09 23:09:51 I have a couple of days of data that I need to analyse. Aug 09 23:10:02 TiagoTiago: No, it's really horribly more complex than that. Aug 09 23:10:06 isn't it* Aug 09 23:10:14 TiagoTiago: which military things? Aug 09 23:10:30 TiagoTiago: It's 'basically' the error dispersion found by the kalman filter that's inside the GPS. Aug 09 23:10:47 drones, bomb disposal bots, those darpa driverless racers etc Aug 09 23:10:55 wow Aug 09 23:11:04 TiagoTiago: there are certain types of GPS signals that are used only by the US mil, and iirc the workings of some of them are secret Aug 09 23:11:26 TiagoTiago: Each sat broadcasts its timestamp. The GPS takes the known orbits, the timestamps, and works out a position from these. Aug 09 23:11:44 i thought they let civilians use GPS to the full centimeter precision Aug 09 23:11:49 TiagoTiago: If there are 4 sats, you can work out an unambiguous 3D position. (if they are in the right place) Aug 09 23:12:24 TiagoTiago: If there are 5 sats however - the errors won't quite match up, and you cannot 'solve' the position to a point - it comes out as a probability. Aug 09 23:12:35 If you ignore any satellite you get a different solution. Aug 09 23:12:39 wouldn't 3 sats be enough to get a position on earth and a position in earth's orbit? Aug 09 23:12:46 no, you need time too. Aug 09 23:12:50 TiagoTiago: i believe they subsequently got even better military signals Aug 09 23:12:54 3 sats give a 2d fix. Aug 09 23:13:20 With WAAS/EGNOS/... you get a ~2m error. Aug 09 23:13:26 TiagoTiago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals#Military_.28M-code.29 - hopelessly vague, i'm afraid Aug 09 23:13:35 distance from e points should be enough for two possible 3d coordinates Aug 09 23:13:47 With local differential GPS - which costs lots - you get centimetric. Aug 09 23:13:50 e? Aug 09 23:13:53 3 points* Aug 09 23:14:01 gah Aug 09 23:14:03 TiagoTiago: you don't have a perfect time. Aug 09 23:14:10 TiagoTiago: so you need 4 for a 3d fix Aug 09 23:14:16 SpeedEvil: yep, that unawareness-of-precision thing in most apps is rather annoying. Fahrplan for example gave me wrong schedule for my bus, as it picked the station from a raw-position that libloc delivered 4s after switching on, and the station was off 1500m Aug 09 23:14:37 :/ Aug 09 23:15:00 And the m-code docs are published in _lots_ more detail than that. Aug 09 23:15:06 It's 'just' the key which is secret. Aug 09 23:15:07 well, thank god it's been raining cats and dogs Aug 09 23:15:08 AIUI Aug 09 23:16:16 is it possible for an application that doesn't know about precision to be given the cell-tower location? Aug 09 23:16:34 no Aug 09 23:16:42 Or rather. Aug 09 23:16:43 time between the signal sent and you getting it gives you distance, kmowing the position of the 3 emiters and your distsnce to the should let you calculate 2 possible positions Aug 09 23:16:44 yes Aug 09 23:16:57 TiagoTiago: you don't know the local time though Aug 09 23:17:17 TiagoTiago: Being one microsecond off in your local time gets you a position error of 300m. Aug 09 23:17:21 (i presume that when i see 0 sats and my location is given as a stationary point that is not where i am with an error of many hundreds of meters, that position is the cell tower i'm connected to, right?) Aug 09 23:17:29 TiagoTiago: So you have to solve for time. Aug 09 23:17:35 BCMM: yes Aug 09 23:17:38 well, up to the precision of the devicem's internal clock Aug 09 23:17:54 TiagoTiago: which is perhaps accurate to a microsecond a second - best case. Aug 09 23:18:27 on a sorta-related thing, any advances on setting the n900's clock from GPS? Aug 09 23:18:28 TiagoTiago: The local clock - without lock to the satellites - is no better than around 100ppm. Aug 09 23:18:35 last i heard, it basically didn't work Aug 09 23:18:46 BCMM: it is not meant to. Aug 09 23:19:06 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10163 Aug 09 23:19:07 Bug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device. Aug 09 23:19:15 oh Aug 09 23:19:53 TiagoTiago: So you have to also solve for time, to get an accurate position. Hence 3 sats = 2d fix, 4 sats = 3d Aug 09 23:20:08 isn't there some sort of phase detection or even differences in the signal reeceived that would let you measure time with more p.recision than the devices clock's? Aug 09 23:20:10 so when you set it to automatically update the time, how is it supposed to do it? NTP? something in one of the GSM protocols? Aug 09 23:20:19 TiagoTiago: try to stop speed of light with a stopwatch ;-) Aug 09 23:21:08 ah, bug says GSM - so if it doesn't work for me, it's probably my network's fault? Aug 09 23:21:17 internal clock is off by seconds rather than microseconds, and microseconds is quite sufficiently inaccurate a granularity even Aug 09 23:21:27 DocScrutinizer, cannot stop it, but I can send it on a U turn Aug 09 23:21:49 lcuk: I *knew* you'd say that :-D Aug 09 23:21:55 :D Aug 09 23:22:02 the fourth is to calibrate the time imprecision? Aug 09 23:22:24 the fourth is the clock Aug 09 23:22:31 *IS* even Aug 09 23:22:49 hm Aug 09 23:23:08 TiagoTiago: yes Aug 09 23:23:11 TiagoTiago: well - no Aug 09 23:23:16 lol Aug 09 23:23:25 TiagoTiago: All four are used to derive both the local time, and a position. Aug 09 23:23:27 to be precise, you get just ratiometric values for distance to 4 sats first Aug 09 23:23:30 * lcuk likes answers like that Aug 09 23:23:32 TiagoTiago: one is not used as a clock Aug 09 23:24:03 it's jsut when you finally decided your exact position then you can get microsecond accurate time from sats Aug 09 23:24:14 the results from each sat allows cross referencing between them Aug 09 23:24:31 In 'reality' all of the differential ranges and range-rates of the satellites are thrown together in a kalman filter, which spits out position/velocity/uncertainty values. Aug 09 23:25:03 * lcuk considered this sort of algorithm for positioning n900s using sound o_O Aug 09 23:25:20 :) Aug 09 23:25:31 please elaborate Aug 09 23:25:49 distance to 1.sat=1.0, to 2nd=1.0000235, to 3rd=0.94598, to 4th=1.100234 Aug 09 23:25:58 http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html - read that. Aug 09 23:26:07 this together with pos of the 4 sat gives you your pos Aug 09 23:26:29 You don't get distances, you get psuedoranges. Aug 09 23:26:33 i mean the audio GPS thing Aug 09 23:26:40 The satellites all broadcast the current time. Aug 09 23:26:44 ah - right Aug 09 23:26:56 Sonar should be quite possible in a limited form Aug 09 23:27:20 TiagoTiago, just part of doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM it was one of a few algorithms I looked at Aug 09 23:28:09 SpeedEvil, how often is timestamp transmitted? Aug 09 23:28:14 or is that the signal itself Aug 09 23:28:27 lcuk: the simple answer to that is 'once every 30s' Aug 09 23:28:44 fair enough Aug 09 23:28:44 lcuk: this is somewhat misleading, as this is how often it transmits an actual time. Aug 09 23:29:24 lcuk: however - there are implied timestamps by the format of the signal at 1/1024th of a second, 1/50th of a second, and also smaller intervals. Aug 09 23:29:26 the signal is phaselocked to time though Aug 09 23:29:31 oh - 6s too Aug 09 23:29:33 cool Aug 09 23:30:13 6s data packets, one of 5 has a timestamp in, transmitted at 50bps, with each bit repeated 20 times. Aug 09 23:30:16 and I am guessing doppler is taken into account on the recv, but I will read the rest of the posting you did Aug 09 23:30:36 lcuk: basically, yes. Doppler, and yourvelocity + satvelocity Aug 09 23:30:47 And local clock drift Aug 09 23:30:50 it doesn't know your vel Aug 09 23:31:11 basically doppler is one of the obstacles why you need so high effort to really receive the sats Aug 09 23:31:32 the bigger obstacle literally is buildings and reflections Aug 09 23:31:34 lcuk: It does not generate every position from scratch. It uses the current estimate of position to work out the time, and fresh position info from the changes in signal. Aug 09 23:31:46 And multipath adds fun. Aug 09 23:32:08 ahh Aug 09 23:32:09 Basically you can ignore any 'late' reflections, if you do things carefully, without much affecting the ignal. Aug 09 23:32:20 yeah Aug 09 23:32:38 hm, GPS signal bounces, i hadn't thought about that before, interesting issue Aug 09 23:32:41 lcuk: Multipath that is shorter than 1us is 'simply' ignored. Aug 09 23:33:03 lcuk: It can - with more smarts be used to augment the signal, and improve lock. Aug 09 23:33:03 cool Aug 09 23:33:33 I'm frequently 'mirrored' inside a building with high wall in front of me, rather than correct pos outside Aug 09 23:33:53 does the N900 uses the bounces for enhacement? Aug 09 23:34:12 just when a less tall building is behind me though Aug 09 23:34:20 TiagoTiago: Essentially nothing is known about the algorithms of the n900 gps Aug 09 23:34:38 so most of 'visible' sky is by refexion on that high building Aug 09 23:35:00 does your position actually show reflected? Aug 09 23:35:11 yes Aug 09 23:35:17 * lcuk rarely attempts gps other than in car Aug 09 23:36:05 incl reversal of velocity and direction Aug 09 23:36:12 well not velocity Aug 09 23:36:22 Interesting. Aug 09 23:36:28 indeed Aug 09 23:36:29 but movement vector and change of pos, so Aug 09 23:36:34 ~2119 Aug 09 23:36:36 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Aug 09 23:36:52 :) Aug 09 23:37:39 is the GPS code just a binary blob or a firmware running separatedly in the GPS chip itself? Aug 09 23:38:26 #2 Aug 09 23:38:35 It's inside the cellmo Aug 09 23:38:41 reportedly. Aug 09 23:38:41 or maybe even in rapuyama Aug 09 23:39:19 though the ds of the gps chip itself suggests there's not much in rapuyama done for calculation of GPS Aug 09 23:39:39 posiibly A(gps) Aug 09 23:40:02 ds? Aug 09 23:40:08 I diddn't see one. Aug 09 23:40:19 hmm, poroduct blabla sheet Aug 09 23:40:33 ah Aug 09 23:40:50 I don't think I saw that. Aug 09 23:41:09 "low workload, siutable even for weak AP systems" bla bla bla Aug 09 23:42:37 ah Aug 09 23:43:19 damn router keeps crashing and needing to be booted :( Aug 09 23:43:26 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12028&contentId=4636 Aug 09 23:44:32 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12776&contentId=30978 Aug 09 23:46:39 hmm, on re-reading it, it's not exactly mentioned Aug 09 23:47:17 I wonder if it's actually someone attacking it from the internet Aug 09 23:50:52 did i miss anything while my connection was down? Aug 09 23:51:41 well, it says 'one-chip-solution to bring GPS to any cellphone" (OWTTE), that makes me think there's no blob on rapuyama Aug 09 23:52:47 perhaps. Aug 09 23:52:48 ah Aug 09 23:53:16 I nevertheless wonder what's that "Software GPS Engine" Aug 09 23:53:35 block sitting outside everything Aug 09 23:54:22 http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/ti_navilink_5.pdf Aug 09 23:54:36 schematic says I2C Aug 09 23:54:44 It's like neo1973 I guess Aug 09 23:54:54 and n810 Aug 09 23:55:17 the GPS chip is a softradio. It handles all of the hard-realtime, and correlators. Aug 09 23:55:23 And RF frontendy stuff. Aug 09 23:55:52 The CPU is left with position calculation, and configuring all of these to scan for sats based on 'stuff'. Aug 09 23:56:29 The GPS chip has no idea at all of position, only PRNs and relative samplerates Aug 09 23:56:44 maybe, maybe not. IIRC it's same chip like in N810 though, and there we know about the driver being a big bad blob, no? Aug 09 23:56:54 soft radio? does this means programs can use it for other purposes? Aug 09 23:57:24 yes, like creating a general spectrogram of GPS band Aug 09 23:57:30 nice Aug 09 23:57:38 maybe Aug 09 23:57:45 do want Aug 09 23:58:07 TiagoTiago_: No. Aug 09 23:58:23 TiagoTiago_: It means in principle it can be flexibly configured to recieve GPS signals. Aug 09 23:58:30 it's as much a softradio as is the radio inside the broadcom BT chip Aug 09 23:58:34 TiagoTiago_: but you can't do this, as it's connected to teh cellmo Aug 09 23:58:46 :( Aug 09 23:59:42 exactly, and I guess that's why AGPS over WLAN doesn't fly. Not even if your position is guessed correctly to the .001 lon/lat Aug 10 00:00:35 simply because there's no way at all to talk to the GPS from outside to substitute the celltower based assist Aug 10 00:01:08 is it closed due to legislations, money or what? Aug 10 00:01:20 'A' living in his own little autistic rapuyama world Aug 10 00:02:22 TiagoTiago_: lack of spec to open it, and lack of desire Aug 10 00:02:43 it is closed due to design is not containing any chromium Aug 10 00:02:45 do you know of a program that shows where the satellites are in the sky in real tiime? Aug 10 00:02:51 yes. Aug 10 00:03:04 I forget which app it was though Aug 10 00:03:35 can you find out with less work than it would take me? Aug 10 00:03:38 tangoGPS on FR, and the winmo app on Omnia9000 Aug 10 00:04:13 the one was correct when looking down on it, the other when holding it up to the sky :-P Aug 10 00:04:32 FR is Fremantle? Aug 10 00:04:46 freerunner Aug 10 00:04:52 openmoko Aug 10 00:04:57 ah Aug 10 00:05:15 anym for the N900? Aug 10 00:05:30 I vaguely recall it was ecoach Aug 10 00:06:56 heh, maybe... Aug 10 00:07:22 SpeedEvil: what was the prog to delete the stored pickle (alm/eph)? Aug 10 00:07:47 umm Aug 10 00:07:48 I wouldn't feel surprised to find strace showing it only talks to modem Aug 10 00:08:51 that's be a really good explanation why they came not up with a "rm /etc/foo/bar" line Aug 10 00:09:04 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Skyhook_Wireless seems interesting Aug 10 00:09:12 no it isn't Aug 10 00:09:33 DocScrutinizer: it was in one of the GPS slow to lock sets. Aug 10 00:09:37 err bugs Aug 10 00:09:52 TiagoTiago_: THIS is interesting: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html Aug 10 00:10:24 SpeedEvil: ooh attachment, I see Aug 10 00:10:39 es Aug 10 00:10:47 well, now for some walk and maybe test GPS a little :-D Aug 10 00:11:06 es? Aug 10 00:11:52 finally, scout now searches notes and company as well.. I am happy :-) Aug 10 00:15:52 smhar what does it say about his power level? Aug 10 00:16:13 DocScrutinizer: do you have lcuk's app? Aug 10 00:16:19 or do I mean luke-jrs. Aug 10 00:16:23 The GPS hardware logger Aug 10 00:16:26 nope Aug 10 00:17:09 luke-jr: Aug 10 00:22:00 SpeedEvil: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/gps2.c Aug 10 00:22:08 ah yes Aug 10 00:22:09 that Aug 10 00:22:27 SpeedEvil: now have GPRS/UMTS + GPS working on Gentoo… :D Aug 10 00:22:44 umm? Aug 10 00:22:47 h Aug 10 00:22:48 oh Aug 10 00:22:52 you mean on the phone? Aug 10 00:23:02 on N900 Aug 10 00:23:15 How can figure out why microB keeps refreshing some pages making it unusablea? Aug 10 00:26:54 help please? Aug 10 00:30:17 switch off js Aug 10 00:32:02 any particular pages? Aug 10 00:32:18 SpeedEvil: that's a nice .c file, but I don't think I can't live on without compiling it right away Aug 10 00:32:32 * GeneralAntilles yawns Aug 10 00:32:43 moo GeneralAntilles Aug 10 00:33:00 http://pastebin.com and threads in talk.maemo.org Aug 10 00:33:11 DocScrutinizer: it's nice in that it gives all of the data theGPS emits.I don't think I've seen a comparable logger Aug 10 00:33:34 errm, location test gui? Aug 10 00:33:43 or whatever it's called Aug 10 00:33:53 hmm, true maybe Aug 10 00:36:45 SpeedEvil , http://pastebin.com and threads in talk.maemo.org for example Aug 10 00:37:27 oh Aug 10 00:37:36 I diddddn't realise that was an answer Aug 10 00:39:34 here's an idea: next device -- support hardware mixing Aug 10 00:39:36 cat /proc/asound/pcm Aug 10 00:39:37 00-00: AIC34 tlv320aic3x-I2S-0 : : playback 1 : capture 1 Aug 10 00:40:44 disabling JS doesn't seem to help :/ Aug 10 00:41:18 pastebin seems to work for me Aug 10 00:41:43 on the N900? wfm Aug 10 00:41:47 pupnik: ?? Aug 10 00:42:13 yeah, it's somthing on my device, other people tried it and told me it worked for them Aug 10 00:42:37 rm /home/user/.mozilla/microb/prefs* Aug 10 00:42:47 then restart all browser instances Aug 10 00:44:13 i'll not loose boorkmarks, addressbar history, memorized passwords nor anything like that, will i? Aug 10 00:45:13 nope Aug 10 00:45:16 only preferences Aug 10 00:45:21 k Aug 10 00:45:40 DocScrutinizer: screw bluetooth headsets :) Aug 10 00:46:56 pupnik: I don't get a word Aug 10 00:47:13 neither do I Aug 10 00:48:20 TiagoTiago, what power level? Aug 10 00:51:35 00-00: emu10k1 : ADC Capture/Standard PCM Playback : playback 32 : capture 1 Aug 10 00:51:58 smhar: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Over%20nine%20thousand&defid=2466884 Aug 10 00:52:33 00-00: trident_dx_nx : Trident 4DWave : playback 32 : capture 1 Aug 10 00:56:28 is there a bug with leaving microB loading a page in the backgorund? Aug 10 00:57:35 gah, even google.com keeps refrshing now Dx Aug 10 00:58:13 DocScrutinizer: I'll have you know I got GPRS/UMTS and GPS working on Gentoo before Tonal and Spivak! Aug 10 00:58:38 <.< Aug 10 00:58:49 neither disabling JS nor rm'ing the browser prefs made any difference :( Aug 10 00:59:55 what could be causing this? Aug 10 01:01:27 what is the problem TiagoTiago Aug 10 01:01:40 he's been spamming it in here for a while now Aug 10 01:01:50 some crappy sites do some auto-refresh thing in microB Aug 10 01:01:52 microB keeps refreshing some pages :( Aug 10 01:02:12 inckuding threads on talk.maemo.org Aug 10 01:03:07 never seen that, no idea as to cause Aug 10 01:05:26 TiagoTiago: maybe some lame plugin? Aug 10 01:06:15 "Redirection limit for this URL exceeded. Unable to load the requested page. This may be caused by cookies that are blocked." Aug 10 01:06:22 lol Aug 10 01:06:34 all soundcards should feature multichannel ADC/DAC with analog, digitally controled mixing :) Aug 10 01:06:50 does that tell anything about the underlying issue? Aug 10 01:06:50 pupnik: why? Aug 10 01:07:15 sounds like somebody is doing backflips TiagoTiago Aug 10 01:07:55 cookies are allowed btw Aug 10 01:08:43 does not sound like default behavior Aug 10 01:09:02 http://media.photobucket.com/image/soundcraft%20ghost/ibenhad/Ghost/Ghost3.jpg there's a good mixer Aug 10 01:10:05 pronto you silver spoon up yourself asshole how you doing :) Aug 10 01:12:07 no addons other than the ones that came with it Aug 10 01:12:59 maybe this is the problem telesp.net.br Aug 10 01:14:29 nothing like this on my desktop machine ( it's running WinXP though) Aug 10 01:15:08 TiagoTiago: OMG please reboot the fckng thing Aug 10 01:15:59 the N900? This issue has been going on for swveral reboots already Aug 10 01:16:19 then seems you installed some crap Aug 10 01:16:34 or a virus did that for you Aug 10 01:16:46 :-P Aug 10 01:16:50 lol Aug 10 01:17:20 perhaps, but i can't think of anyting that i installed that would be messing with microB Aug 10 01:18:05 how can i diagnose this in further details? Aug 10 01:18:30 no idea Aug 10 01:19:18 debugger Aug 10 01:19:48 ask timeless Aug 10 01:20:06 is he around right now? Aug 10 01:20:36 btw, i get no issues when i try the sme pages with iceweasel Aug 10 01:21:36 lol Aug 10 01:22:13 but you can't remeber installing ANY app that _might_ interfere with html at large Aug 10 01:23:38 TiagoTiago: btw iceweasel would be messign with microB Aug 10 01:23:47 things were working for a long time after i installed Iceweasel Aug 10 01:24:43 really? who was the genius that decided to make one program fuck up anlother one instead of leaving it alone and doing itms own thing?. Aug 10 01:24:58 DocScrutinizer: looking at /var/lib/pulse-nokia i see a lot of params that *might* be tweakable for better performance Aug 10 01:24:59 * DocScrutinizer shrugs and finally takes his walk Aug 10 01:25:03 or am i just praying to .... Aug 10 01:25:06 hmm Aug 10 01:25:10 ttyl maybe Aug 10 01:25:37 pupnik: interesting :-) Aug 10 01:25:46 cya l8r Aug 10 01:26:09 cya Aug 10 01:26:47 grep xprot /var/lib/pulse-nokia/* Aug 10 01:27:02 for e.g. Aug 10 01:27:05 yeah ttyl Aug 10 01:27:19 why would Iceweasel be messing with microB? Aug 10 01:31:39 iceweasel cannot mess with microb Aug 10 01:31:47 they are installed on different /'s Aug 10 01:32:08 hm, Iceweasel isn't listed to uninstall, i think it came with EasyDeb Aug 10 01:32:33 yes, that's a chroot, with settings stored in /.debian Aug 10 01:33:03 someone here told me it was messing it up, the likelly cause of my issue with microB continuosly refreshing some pages Aug 10 01:34:17 I don't think luke-jr is right about that. Aug 10 01:34:44 shrug Aug 10 01:34:52 just a possibility Aug 10 01:34:56 ok Aug 10 01:36:29 * TiagoTiago sights Aug 10 01:36:35 k Aug 10 01:37:09 sighs* Aug 10 01:38:18 sight, then pull trigger slowly Aug 10 01:38:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzbOaN_uEaM cat vs bunny Aug 10 01:38:27 lol Aug 10 01:39:13 bunnies are much more badassy@than most people expect Aug 10 01:40:35 i've seen themfight off things like venomous snakes Aug 10 01:40:42 yeah but ... chickens break up rabbit fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D35uQCtr4EY Aug 10 01:40:46 never trust bunnies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rebnrnGLKh0 Aug 10 01:41:37 aw fuck, youtube is anlother page that keeps refrshing Dx Aug 10 01:42:05 another* Aug 10 01:44:36 is there a way i can see a log of what microB is thinking when it keeps refreshing a page? Aug 10 01:44:55 don't think so Aug 10 01:47:07 how about the page source code as microB sees it? Aug 10 01:47:26 ohwhyme, and the http headers too if possible Aug 10 01:47:41 TiagoTiago, i suggest rejoining in about 6 hours Aug 10 01:47:48 timeless should be here by then Aug 10 01:47:55 hm Aug 10 01:48:26 night Aug 10 01:48:40 cya Aug 10 01:49:19 i'll try to be here again when timeless is, thanx Aug 10 01:50:09 "timeless should be here by that time" ... Aug 10 01:51:16 heheh Aug 10 01:59:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibjlbLJ0FQs ASCII Portal on OpenPandora... is badass Aug 10 02:05:30 lol that is cool! Aug 10 02:10:53 ehh where to get this ascii-portal? Aug 10 02:11:41 found it Aug 10 02:12:11 the official site has binaries for x86 and sourcecode Aug 10 02:13:26 Two fullsize SD slots Aug 10 02:15:45 now that's quite interesting. While netmon didn't see any change in Cell-ID, the location test on ACWP (no sats) had a quite decent idea of my changing location. Even though it jumped to rather interesting addresses that didn't look to me like BTS tower locations but nevertheless fixed to a certain street and house Aug 10 02:16:19 then when cell-ID actually changed, the location didn't Aug 10 02:16:44 I've been assuming it's reading location that the network tells it somehow Aug 10 02:16:55 I haven't gone into details though Aug 10 02:18:05 well, when location and BTS are completely unrelated wrt to changing their values... Aug 10 02:18:29 yeah Aug 10 02:19:31 and the locations - tbh - looked to me like it were of higher probability for me to usually be there or been there before Aug 10 02:20:33 maybe the A database is filled with neighbour-cell | GPS tupels I previously produced Aug 10 02:21:58 or netmon is simply buggy Aug 10 02:23:33 it locked quite several times, and I restarted it frequently. But maybe it still didn't get the changes in BTS Cell-ID for some reason. At least for me it seemed like there were rather few - too few - cell handovers Aug 10 02:24:06 netmon has crashed several times for me Aug 10 02:24:29 *nod* Aug 10 02:26:09 why didn't they make the stylus' profile assymetrical so you wouldn't be able to insert it almost all the qway in only to realise it's backwards? Aug 10 02:26:28 Backwards means you can easily pull it out Aug 10 02:26:39 hm Aug 10 02:26:45 that's a feature Aug 10 02:27:15 i've never had any difivulty pulling it out from the "locked" position.... Aug 10 02:27:29 fine Aug 10 02:28:14 file a bug ticket Aug 10 02:29:11 TiagoTiago: It's harder to pull out with love. Aug 10 02:29:12 gloves Aug 10 02:29:23 well, if it actuslly helps some people i would feel bad asking it to stop helping them.... Aug 10 02:29:42 TiagoTiago: I need to use nails to pull it out of locked Aug 10 02:29:43 ah, hm *nods* Aug 10 02:30:09 i haven't tried using the N900 with gloves yet Aug 10 02:31:01 the only stylus that I haven't seen a need to invert on occasion was once again my C760 Aug 10 02:31:08 its stylus sticks out past the case Aug 10 02:31:23 and it's round, so you can just rotate if you stick it in wrong Aug 10 02:31:23 someone should make gloves with fingernails for precise tapping in cold weather (and mincreased easiness of pulling out things like the stylus) Aug 10 02:31:26 (almost automatic to me) Aug 10 02:31:39 TiagoTiago: us men don't usually have long nails in the first place Aug 10 02:32:12 TiagoTiago: it's not easy Aug 10 02:32:29 TiagoTiago: As the fingernails are attached quite firmly to the finger. Aug 10 02:32:43 tipless gloves Aug 10 02:32:48 It's really hard to do that with gloves - unless they're tight enough to stop circulation. Aug 10 02:32:55 TiagoTiago: don't they use like.. sausages in japan? Aug 10 02:32:56 existing since dunno when Aug 10 02:33:00 that too. Aug 10 02:33:01 frozen sausages or something? Aug 10 02:33:06 i've just clipped my nails the other day and they still work just fine for precoision tapping and poking the dinks to pull out the stylus etc Aug 10 02:33:33 i miss the stylus on screen kb :( Aug 10 02:33:46 the peckboard was nice to have sometimes on the n8x0 Aug 10 02:33:49 ? Aug 10 02:34:25 fuck it's hot Aug 10 02:34:28 revisionist - anti-fingerfiendly-party Aug 10 02:34:38 DocScrutinizer: haha Aug 10 02:34:44 maemo was best before it went all thumbs ;) Aug 10 02:36:13 arguably a point Aug 10 02:36:33 but then there was D-pad Aug 10 02:36:35 nailpoking still works quite well, and the N900 got a builtin stylus for when you need one Aug 10 02:37:24 well, that's not the UI-paradigma anymore Aug 10 02:37:52 next device will be without D-pad, kbd, and stylus Aug 10 02:38:08 and that's been it for me then Aug 10 02:38:15 an analog nub would be great Aug 10 02:39:18 I want atrackpoint,yes. Aug 10 02:39:27 hom, would touch tecnology work on non-flat surfaces? Aug 10 02:39:36 Ihave lapto, andan external keyboard withtackpoint. Works for me. Aug 10 02:39:44 optical mouse, upside down Aug 10 02:39:51 I also need to vacuum my keyboard Aug 10 02:40:24 c-ts yes. r-ts no Aug 10 02:40:34 @little glass nub with pressure sensitive touch technology would fit well with the lack of moving parts while dtill providing an analog nub Aug 10 02:40:49 a little* Aug 10 02:41:37 that thing would probably scratch like hell though Aug 10 02:43:08 though with oil separator technology they probably could even build spherical r-ts Aug 10 02:43:45 whar does "r-ts" stands for? Aug 10 02:43:50 but honestly - who'd want to get such crap? Aug 10 02:44:14 resistive touchscreen Aug 10 02:44:47 aren't there multitouch resistives? Aug 10 02:45:05 yes there are Aug 10 02:45:51 capcitive doesn't work well with gloves and nails, do they? Aug 10 02:45:58 nope Aug 10 02:46:35 then why people insist capacitive is better? Aug 10 02:47:10 it's allegedly smoother to operate, or somesuch Aug 10 02:47:16 fruit induced missdirected hype? Aug 10 02:47:23 yep Aug 10 02:47:36 i see Aug 10 02:47:38 I love apple. Aug 10 02:47:42 I have 4 trees. Aug 10 02:48:26 personally, I'd be annoyed if I couldn't wipe my screen w/o triggering touches Aug 10 02:48:31 * DocScrutinizer wipes away a tear shed for the forgotten bananas in my fridge Aug 10 02:49:05 don't bananas go black in the fridge? Aug 10 02:49:06 luke-jr: ACK Aug 10 02:49:17 yep they did Aug 10 02:49:48 I typically keep them in the cupboard for around a month Aug 10 02:49:52 well - 3 weeks Aug 10 02:50:01 AS long as you don't bang them - they keep well Aug 10 02:50:25 and once they go black, they don't come back Aug 10 02:50:39 After about 3 weeks they stop getting sweeter though, and go overripe. Aug 10 02:55:35 * luke-jr notes black bananas aren't bad Aug 10 02:56:34 * DocScrutinizer notes jazz is not dead Aug 10 02:57:04 it just smells funny **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 10 02:59:58 2010