**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 10 02:59:58 2010 Aug 10 03:00:35 Yeah. If they haven't been bruised, they are fine. Aug 10 03:00:42 I'm shopping infrequently ATM. Aug 10 03:01:00 And hence get about 8Kg of banannas at a time. Aug 10 03:01:18 wtf Aug 10 03:01:39 did that big black ant I squished seriously just try to bite me? Aug 10 03:02:19 going down fighting Aug 10 03:05:49 so I just tore apart my 802.11b CompactFlash card… Aug 10 03:05:57 silly me thinking I could make it smaller :/ Aug 10 03:09:16 I see that DocScrutinizer, who set this channel topic, is connected with OpenMoko. Is OpenMoko connected with Maemo? Or is it a separate system? Aug 10 03:09:59 nothing in common (well except that linux tag maybe) Aug 10 03:10:02 openmoko is completely unrelated. Aug 10 03:10:44 Ok that's what I thought. Aug 10 03:10:58 The channel has become a harbor for Openmoko refugees. Aug 10 03:11:06 lol Aug 10 03:11:23 Do they have papers or are they illegal refugees, waiting to be deported back to OpenMokoLand? Aug 10 03:11:55 We'll be tortures by the agents of G.L.A.M.O. Aug 10 03:12:05 dude, don't even say glamo Aug 10 03:12:06 s/tortures/tortured/ Aug 10 03:12:07 Ken-Young meant: We'll be tortured by the agents of G.L.A.M.O. Aug 10 03:12:17 openmoko land has been split in two halves, and the one I were living at got nuked off the earth Aug 10 03:12:44 openmoko was a test to see how much people could flake Aug 10 03:13:06 Well, I'm glad Maemo has been around for a while, but I understand that now we're just waiting for the Next Best Thing (Meego) Which Hasn't Happened Yet. Aug 10 03:14:03 hey hey Aug 10 03:14:04 some are whaiting. But they won't have as much fun as those who just joy away with maemo Aug 10 03:15:03 I'm not waiting for the pudding while about to eat the fish Aug 10 03:15:13 Why does the N900 makes the keypress sound when i switch to the VNC client window in Windows that is conencted to it? Aug 10 03:15:28 I hope that means Maemo will be around for a while. I just want something that I can move files onto, without needing special apps (iPhone) or special formats (PalmOS) just to read. I would have gotten the Palm Pre (which I think ran Linux?) but that phone doesn't even take a SIM card, so that got shot down... Aug 10 03:15:59 actually it sounds like the screen tap sound not the keypress sound Aug 10 03:16:19 kwtm, I thought a GSM version of the Pre had been released in Europe. Am I wrong? Aug 10 03:16:26 even if i switch to the window with alt-tab instead of clicking on it Aug 10 03:16:28 * DocScrutinizer hands medal for master of questions to TiagoTiago Aug 10 03:16:35 lol Aug 10 03:17:03 Ken-Young: I didn't know that. I guess I could have gotten the Palm Pre, then, although I don't live in Europe. The way they tie phones to cell service providers here is ridiculous. Aug 10 03:17:06 i hope i'm not being unpleasant with my curiosities o.o Aug 10 03:17:30 actually I got a highlight regex to color in red every post of TiagoTiago that does not end in a "?" Aug 10 03:17:38 lol Aug 10 03:17:51 interesting Aug 10 03:18:45 does this bypasses it? Aug 10 03:18:52 hm, didn't paste right Aug 10 03:19:25 TiagoTiago: you even answer your own questions :-D great Aug 10 03:19:40 heh Aug 10 03:19:51 too bad it doesn't happen all the time :,/ Aug 10 03:20:03 when it's the screentap sound then probably it's triggered by an X event Aug 10 03:20:16 hm, typing too fast via VNC doesn't work all that well somtimes Aug 10 03:21:02 kwtm: you're better off with N900 Aug 10 03:21:42 kwtm: and yes, maemo won't vanish this year, and probably not next as well Aug 10 03:21:46 DocScrutinizer: I agree. But do you remember how mine kept crashing with the infinite boot-up sequence ("Forever Dots") and then I returned it and bought a new one? And then that one kept crashing? Aug 10 03:22:01 big desktop keyboard that i don't have to carry the weight does have it's benefits :) Aug 10 03:22:10 TiagoTiago might remember it too--you answered one of my questions on the talk.maemo.org forum. Aug 10 03:22:34 So... I returned the second N900 too, for a refund. Guess what? Aug 10 03:23:07 I bought a third one. Aug 10 03:23:08 Same glitch? Aug 10 03:23:10 huy Aug 10 03:23:41 Now, if that's not dedication to the N900, I don't know what is. I haven't even been able to really USE my N900 yet... Aug 10 03:23:56 poor thing Aug 10 03:24:03 kwtm: there's some reports about users that got really bad luck and had two bummers in a row Aug 10 03:24:19 perhaps it's all fromt he same botched batch Aug 10 03:24:27 all stocked in the service center Aug 10 03:24:29 I seem to be narrowing in on the problem. I have a theory that would explain all the salient points, including why I'm the only one with this error... Aug 10 03:24:44 relative air humidity? Aug 10 03:24:51 TiagoTiago: Good theory; that's why I made sure I bought mine over the Internet, whereas the first two were stocked at a local store. Aug 10 03:25:06 i see Aug 10 03:25:22 I think it's a software problem, not hardware, since there are THREE different N900's with the same problem. Aug 10 03:25:34 hmm Aug 10 03:25:42 my C760 won't power on anymore, even with AC Aug 10 03:25:44 My best theory so far is that the N900 invokes the ash shell on bootup, and it runs "~/.profile". Aug 10 03:26:01 kwtm: uh, duh? Aug 10 03:26:08 sensible approach Aug 10 03:26:39 I'm trying to remember if "~/.profile" is run on every invocation or only on interactive shell... Aug 10 03:27:19 hmm, probably is somewhere on line 4956 of man ash Aug 10 03:28:00 "~/.profile" does not exist by default, but I created one. It contains one line. If that file is causing the error, it might explain why no one else has encountered it. Aug 10 03:28:13 also it's messybox err busybox, which doesn't exactly help Aug 10 03:28:50 It's because I am SOOooo 1337 that I am capable of crashing the N900!!! Yeah, that's it!! I'm so 1337 that I can even crash it without me knowing why! Aug 10 03:29:16 it's instinctive :P Aug 10 03:29:20 if you were that 1337 youd know why your crashing it Aug 10 03:29:22 :P Aug 10 03:29:49 Okay, maybe I'm not so 1337. Maybe I'm just 1336. Aug 10 03:29:54 lol Aug 10 03:30:12 anyway messing with system boot shouldn't hinder a clean reinstall of rootfs that should fix al kinds of bugs of that class Aug 10 03:31:01 no need to swap device Aug 10 03:31:03 DocScrutinizer: Yeah... problem is, if I can fiddle with it and cause it to nearly-brick requiring a reflash, then the phone is unusable until I get back to a place where I have access to my laptop. Aug 10 03:31:23 mhm Aug 10 03:31:28 So, I'm really REALLY hoping I can prove that it's my ~/.profile, which would let me use and rely on the N900... Aug 10 03:31:54 someone should a release a reflashing device powered by a few AA batteries you just pull it out of your pocket, stick it in and let it do it's thing Aug 10 03:32:28 guess what we'll call that thing Aug 10 03:32:34 Well, in my opinion, it should have been built-in to the N900 (or at least reflash it to a recovery mode where you can do nothing but make phone calls --at least then I'd have a phone to use Aug 10 03:32:36 N900 with hostmode :-P Aug 10 03:32:48 lol Aug 10 03:32:58 luke-jr, how did you get gprs working in Gentoo? Aug 10 03:33:26 TermanaN900: ofono Aug 10 03:33:38 kwtm: seems such recovery mode is already available Aug 10 03:33:48 some sort of phone + console basic firmware for on device debricking would be quite the thing Aug 10 03:33:58 kwtm: I'm so 1337 that I just cut myself (blood flowing fast!) ripping metal apart Aug 10 03:34:26 DocScrutinizer: Oh? Do tell! I actually don't mind a crashing phone but I do mind if I can't reboot it while on one of my transpacific flights. Aug 10 03:34:27 luke-jr, hmm did you pull the latest git head? version .25 doesnt seem to play nice with the modem Aug 10 03:34:30 it's called boot menu Aug 10 03:34:46 luke-jr: Sorry, we finished with that hoke 5 minutes ago. Aug 10 03:34:46 TermanaN900: plus a patch sent to the ofono ML today Aug 10 03:35:00 luke-jr: s/hoke/joke/ Aug 10 03:35:04 link? Aug 10 03:35:35 http://lists.ofono.org/pipermail/ofono/2010-August/003736.html Aug 10 03:35:43 thanks Aug 10 03:36:14 interesting, with VNC right and middle clicking work just fine in Iceweasel Aug 10 03:38:00 TiagoTiago: of course? Aug 10 03:39:43 they could have removed the assignments for those buttons isince the device doesn't have them Aug 10 03:39:56 hm, i can also send F-keys, nice Aug 10 03:40:30 TiagoTiago: my N900 has a rightclick Aug 10 03:41:17 it does/ Aug 10 03:41:24 ? Aug 10 03:42:13 is it acessible with the hardware keys/buttons in the device? Aug 10 03:42:45 yes Aug 10 03:42:51 tap and hold Aug 10 03:43:14 yay Aug 10 03:43:24 once again I work a miracle Aug 10 03:43:33 my CompactWLAN card wasn't working anymore Aug 10 03:43:41 so I tore it apart and scotch-taped it back together Aug 10 03:43:47 now my C760 can get online again Aug 10 03:45:14 oooh, i wasn't aware that was actually mapped to a different input instead of just being a functionality with the main button, thanx for the info :D Aug 10 03:45:36 sad fact: I haven't touched the software on my C760 in like 3 or 4 years, and it's running 2.6.23, newer than N810's latest working 2.6.21… Aug 10 03:46:02 built 2.6.23 for C760 Nov 4 2007 Aug 10 03:47:31 is there a middle click trick somewhere too?V Aug 10 03:47:42 sure Aug 10 03:47:49 just do a left click at the same time as a right click Aug 10 03:47:49 What is it/ Aug 10 03:48:06 ? Aug 10 03:48:26 but there are no two buttons, it's the same one for left and right click..... Aug 10 03:56:53 TiagoTiago: nevertheless, that is how to do it Aug 10 03:57:03 :-P hehehe Aug 10 03:57:49 that's like how the headless mule breathes fire out of her nostrils? Aug 10 03:58:19 exactly Aug 10 03:59:32 :D Aug 10 03:59:33 TiagoTiago: btw it's completely useless to try and fool my statistics with things like \/ Aug 10 03:59:34 ? Aug 10 04:00:19 when i type too fast via VNC the shift key and the /? key seem to have the start and end loose synchrony Aug 10 04:00:20 will get accounted as even two question posts :-D Aug 10 04:00:53 i was meaning for it to come out a ? but it didn't for some reason Aug 10 04:01:30 i wasn't trying to bypass your filter at all Aug 10 04:01:40 :-D Aug 10 04:03:32 * DocScrutinizer wonders if you couldn't assign shift-rightclick to MMB Aug 10 04:04:04 DocScrutinizer: maybe with XInput 2 Aug 10 04:04:11 hm, interesting, even though the ? and the / are different keys on the N900 hardware, via VNC they are the same like on the desktop keyboard, responding the same way to shift being held Aug 10 04:04:33 lol, where did the : come from? Aug 10 04:04:34 TiagoTiago: … you don't know what abstraction means, do you? Aug 10 04:05:18 i'm trying to understand who is deciding whether to type a / or a ? Aug 10 04:05:33 ?/?/???/::???V?/:?/:??//////:?V??/ Aug 10 04:06:13 that was just tapping on the key and on shift without trying to have any synch in the tappings Aug 10 04:06:19 hope it's your brain. If not then there's something odd going on Aug 10 04:06:25 where the fuck does the : come from? Aug 10 04:10:18 modifier+right click = middle click sounds like a great idea Aug 10 04:12:34 TiagoTiago: well, Shift-period is ':' Aug 10 04:12:40 Fn-period is '?' Aug 10 04:12:51 at least on my N900 Aug 10 04:13:08 so it is mixing the desktop keyboard with the N900 keyboard? Aug 10 04:13:21 what is making it Fn instead of shift?V Aug 10 04:13:28 ⁇? Aug 10 04:13:34 i wonder where those V are comming from Aug 10 04:13:49 cool, different question marks Aug 10 04:13:55 'V' is '/' minus Fn plus Shift Aug 10 04:14:10 hm, interesting Aug 10 04:14:28 tapping on shift fast somtimes produces Fn somehow Aug 10 04:15:15 Fn is above Shift Aug 10 04:17:30 but i'm taping on my desktop keyboard Aug 10 04:17:57 o Aug 10 04:18:07 how do you figure btw? Aug 10 04:18:13 what?V Aug 10 04:18:16 only '?' and '/' require Fn Aug 10 04:18:21 and presumably you're hitting those keys Aug 10 04:18:38 hm, the Fn is lagging Aug 10 04:22:34 so intead of typing the characters themselves, it is pressing the hardware keyboard combination required to produce the character Aug 10 04:23:31 VNC tends to do stupid things :/ Aug 10 04:26:34 is there some way to tunnel thru the mobile operator GPRS/3G/whatever connections without triggering chargers in a per byte plan/ Aug 10 04:26:55 ? Aug 10 04:27:31 charges Aug 10 04:27:37 * Aug 10 04:28:50 hm Aug 10 04:30:36 i went to the store today to investigate getting a data plan, it's ultrajeous how much they charge and the stuff they make to make you pay even more just to have the connection avaible Aug 10 04:31:39 TiagoTiago: sounds liek you live in the USA Aug 10 04:31:55 nope, Brazil Aug 10 04:32:50 people are worried about the scandal that will happen when the olypics and world cup come here and all the gringos gend up having to sell their moms to pay their mobile bills Aug 10 04:33:21 olympics Aug 10 04:33:25 *I Aug 10 04:35:59 TiagoTiago: you could try tunnelling over DNS without data service Aug 10 04:36:04 but over here that just got my domain blocked Aug 10 04:36:05 T-Mobile USA charges $15/MByte in Europe, with no upper limit! Aug 10 04:36:17 Ken-Young: that's an utter ripoff Aug 10 04:36:31 $68/GB Aug 10 04:36:41 luke-jr, Yup, absolutely incredible. Aug 10 04:37:00 $15,000/GB Aug 10 04:37:12 how can i set it up on the N900? Aug 10 04:37:48 also, can i set it up so only the program i choose will use that connection so if they do charge it i can have more control? Aug 10 04:40:49 TiagoTiago: no point, as it uses bandwidth even if idle Aug 10 04:41:02 it would use probably at least 2x as much when in use, too Aug 10 04:41:06 the tunnel?V Aug 10 04:42:03 I mean, the tunnel will keep using sending and receiving data even while iddle? Aug 10 04:42:13 yes Aug 10 04:42:40 no more conservative tunneling method? Aug 10 04:43:18 there is no* Aug 10 04:51:31 nope Aug 10 04:53:49 balls Aug 10 04:53:53 Ken-Young: get a PAYG card, they offer quite reasonable dataplans as an option Aug 10 04:54:35 such like 10..20EUR / month for a limit of 5GB Aug 10 04:54:42 or 2GB Aug 10 04:57:22 I had the power kernel installed, tried to upgrade to the new version today. There were some dependency issues and the device has fallen into a reboot loop. Any other way or I have to reflash? Aug 10 04:57:40 Ken-Young: make sure to activate the dataplan option *prior* to configuring your GPRS APN - some of the carriers allow access via same APN without dataplan, but then charge is similar to what you mentioned :-D Aug 10 04:58:29 reflash kernel Aug 10 04:58:49 if that doesn't help, reflash whole COMBINED fiasco image Aug 10 04:59:48 you *could* try R&D mode, but I doubt that will lead anywhere, as even without bootloop - what you gonna do? Aug 10 05:01:25 anyway whatever you do, make sure you don't deplete your battery to a point where flashing becomes impossible. Bootlooping devices don't charge Aug 10 05:04:30 hm, the chick in the mobile company store told me it's not possible to have the same number in more than one chip, but what about cloning? Aug 10 05:05:06 with physical acess tot he chip and being the mobile company, shouldn't it be easy to clone a simcard? Aug 10 05:05:08 heh Aug 10 05:05:14 for them yes Aug 10 05:05:21 realistically they can do it no problem Aug 10 05:05:26 but it is company policy that they don't Aug 10 05:05:29 for whatever reason Aug 10 05:05:37 why would they not want to do it?V Aug 10 05:05:40 i tried the same thing .. i actually called up tmob to get it cloned :) Aug 10 05:05:44 who knows. Aug 10 05:05:52 so people would be forced to get a 2nd number? :) Aug 10 05:06:00 hm Aug 10 05:06:20 i looked for ways to do it but never found a real solution Aug 10 05:06:24 it wouldn't harm the network would it? Aug 10 05:06:40 well. i think if both sims are detected at the same time Aug 10 05:06:45 your acct gets disabled Aug 10 05:06:50 oh Aug 10 05:06:53 that would be bad Aug 10 05:07:00 yeah :) Aug 10 05:07:03 there's dual card and there's twin card Aug 10 05:07:22 both perfectly normal offers of several carriers Aug 10 05:07:35 DocScrutinizer: not from tmob ;) Aug 10 05:07:51 i bet any chinese corner store can do it Aug 10 05:07:59 nope Aug 10 05:10:50 Macer: http://www.t-mobile.de/business/multisim/0,12486,17258-_,00.html Aug 10 05:11:03 is there any phreaking tools avaible for the N900 that are not just CLI? Aug 10 05:11:56 business multisim? :) Aug 10 05:12:08 that probably requires some outrageous overpriced business lease Aug 10 05:12:21 haha GUI and phreaking .. c'mon Aug 10 05:12:44 plus it's .de ;) Aug 10 05:12:58 http://www.teefury.com/archive/913/Double_OMG/ Aug 10 05:12:59 Macer: please stop stating negatives as if you knew everything, while you in fact got no clue Aug 10 05:13:01 hahahah!! Aug 10 05:13:14 well, they did have a dialpad isntead of just poking wires together in the old days Aug 10 05:13:19 DocScrutinizer: i'm just saying that for some reason or another it might be relative to europe Aug 10 05:13:52 all i know is when i called tmobile they said they don't do it Aug 10 05:14:04 Macer: I think a called you on "please stop trolling" just yesterday Aug 10 05:14:08 and that is what i specifically asked for Aug 10 05:14:40 This sounds like an interesting conversation, but how do I stop being away? Aug 10 05:14:44 uhm. i'm not. why is it when people disagree with you it is automatically trolling? i called tmobile and they said they wouldn't do it. maybe they do it in europe for whatever reason but unfortunately that is not the case as far as i know Aug 10 05:14:57 Ok. Now, let's see what you said in the past 5 miniutes... Aug 10 05:15:52 Macer: It's not about disagreeing with any*body* - it's about disagreeing with the *facts* Aug 10 05:15:55 now if you are able to show me a t-mobile site that says it is available in the US then by all means i'm open ears.. but considering i can't read .de the page you posted is irrelevant Aug 10 05:16:46 Macer: and learn to use google, they got a really somewhat working translation service Aug 10 05:16:59 why? i don't live in .de Aug 10 05:17:19 yahoo somtimes does a better job, somtimes worse, but machine translation always sucks Aug 10 05:17:22 but i have been using google to see if they have the same service in the US and so far no luck Aug 10 05:17:30 Macer: Are you specifically referring to Tmobile in a certain country, like the USA, then? Aug 10 05:17:43 kwtm: yes ;) Aug 10 05:17:58 Thx Macer. I ask because I am also using Tmobile USA. Aug 10 05:18:00 Isn't the USA the only place that matters? Aug 10 05:18:12 * RST38h finds a tree and climbs it, just in case. Aug 10 05:18:15 depends on the point of view Aug 10 05:18:16 RST38h: I just explained why I asked about Tmobile USA specifically. Aug 10 05:18:31 So Tmobile USA said don't put the same number in more than one SIM? Aug 10 05:18:44 and I don't live in your country, and yet I got t-mo here and they offer twin err multisim. So your statement t-mo doesn't is false. And I don't like to discuss this topic further with you, you've been warned 3 times now to stop that negativism Aug 10 05:18:45 I've been thinking about doing that, actually, so thanks for the info. Aug 10 05:18:55 kwtm: yeah. i noticed that. which is why i told you what i have discovered in my attempt to do so Aug 10 05:18:56 kwtm: AFAIK, if you insist, they will Aug 10 05:19:10 kwtm: And if they do not, you can always "lose" your current SIM. Aug 10 05:19:19 RST38h: when i called it was like i was asking for a murder contract ;) Aug 10 05:19:33 considering the bad reputation the german telekom and tmobile has here in germany, i am only wondering how worse all the other US phone companies must be Aug 10 05:19:34 won't they block the old sim when they give you a new one? Aug 10 05:19:37 RST38h: Oh, you found that Tmobile USA was able to put the same number on two different SIMs, then? Aug 10 05:19:41 Macer: Isn't that always like this nowadays, when you call customer service in the US? Aug 10 05:19:54 yeah Aug 10 05:19:59 Because I did exactly that, and as TiagoTiago noted, they block the old SIM. Aug 10 05:20:01 fair point ;) Aug 10 05:20:08 DocScrutinizer: chill down, I don't see any difference in Macer's behaviour than what he has always done, even before you had ops in here. he's always been a bit of a joker/sarcastic git. Aug 10 05:20:12 kwtm: There is no technical problem with issuing two sims for the same account Aug 10 05:20:39 Stskeeps: :) i just hate .de Aug 10 05:20:41 * Macer hides Aug 10 05:20:44 also, don't report it as stolen, they might add the IMEI of the device using it tot he international blacklist Aug 10 05:20:46 Stskeeps: yes, but it's just been too much the last few days Aug 10 05:20:52 kwtm: And the billing will be ok Aug 10 05:20:57 RST38h: I can neither agree nor disagree with you since I have no technical basis for going either way. I just wanted to see what Tmobile would do with a new SIM that has is set to the same number as the old SIM. Aug 10 05:21:16 So I think we're talking about two different things here. Aug 10 05:21:16 DocScrutinizer: might be stress related Aug 10 05:21:24 DocScrutinizer: on a sidenote, when did you sleep last? thought i saw you at midday yesterday :P Aug 10 05:21:27 kwtm: So, my guess is that the problem is with US TMobile being assholes, very typical for phone companies and US companies in general Aug 10 05:21:37 RST38h: sure is Aug 10 05:21:39 Stskeeps: the general mood is going down every day in this chan, and it's those statements that catalyse it Aug 10 05:22:01 sure Aug 10 05:22:08 I never sleep Aug 10 05:22:14 sleep is a crutch ;) Aug 10 05:22:21 kwtm: Russian MTS or Beeline will also issue you a second SIM card, in case you want to use it in a GPRS modem or something Aug 10 05:22:24 RST38h: While that may or may not be true, it doesn't seem relevant to Macer's info, which is that Tmobile USA seems to have a policy of not doing it (not letting the old SIM retain the phone number when setting assigning a number to the new SIM). Aug 10 05:22:26 DocScrutinizer: i would point out other factors than that stuff (like people generally being abusive to eachother, including ops towards normal members) Aug 10 05:22:36 kwtm: So, absolutely no technical problem there Aug 10 05:22:38 DocScrutinizer: as well as a general community decline Aug 10 05:22:52 RST38h: Well, that will be useful to know if I am using Russian MTS or Beeline. Aug 10 05:22:59 RST38h: have you ever tried the chinese method of sim cloning? Aug 10 05:23:03 with the cloning kits? Aug 10 05:23:08 and get some sleep, no sleep causes paranoia :P Aug 10 05:23:08 Macer: Naah, no need to Aug 10 05:23:09 is there a way i can fake the IMEI of my N900 to see if my operator respects the international blacklist without risking having the true IMEI added tot he blacklist or any other permanent harm? Aug 10 05:23:12 oh :/ Aug 10 05:23:15 But it probably won't work on every sim Aug 10 05:23:16 * Stskeeps goes get coffee Aug 10 05:23:30 USA... money before freedom Aug 10 05:23:33 heh Aug 10 05:23:33 kwtm: There is an alternative method that should work with US TMobile Aug 10 05:23:42 Macer: Not money, PROFIT Aug 10 05:23:44 RST38h: i don't think it does. i know there are quite a few that it doesn't work with Aug 10 05:23:51 RST38h: hahaha... fair point again ;) Aug 10 05:23:59 Macer: And even that nowadays appears to be supplanted by ISSUES Aug 10 05:23:59 Stskeeps: I'm far from paranoia :-D Aug 10 05:24:13 RST38h: I'm sure there are ways to do it. But it's still useful information to me that Macer has asked Tmobile USA and Tmobile USA says don't do it. Aug 10 05:24:26 RST38h: well. i'm sure t-mobile usa threw the patriot act in there somewhere Aug 10 05:24:31 kwtm: Get a family plan. They will issue you multiple SIMs, all connected to the same account Aug 10 05:24:43 kwtm: The SIMs will have separate phone numbers, but I hope it is ok Aug 10 05:24:44 saying terrorists are plotting a hostile action through the use of cloned sims to hide their whereabouts Aug 10 05:25:12 kwtm: there's always skype to maintain the same number Aug 10 05:25:14 RST38h: Very interesting suggestion. Out of curiosity, are you using Tmobile USA? (Are you in the USA? That should have been my first question, sorry, so two questions for you.) Aug 10 05:25:16 terrorists are textign each other with their blackberries, didn't you hear? Aug 10 05:25:18 Macer: RST38h: cloning sims with clonekit works with oooold cards only for all I know Aug 10 05:25:19 Macer: http://fredoneverything.net/TSAAgain.shtml Aug 10 05:25:55 HAHAHAH Aug 10 05:25:56 kwtm: I am not in the USA right now, but I go there often enough Aug 10 05:26:03 "...as none have been encountered before." Aug 10 05:26:09 TSA guards are horrible Aug 10 05:26:13 Macer: [spoiler: anal probes at the end] Aug 10 05:26:24 i think it is simply terrorist ignorance that prevents new attacks Aug 10 05:26:44 because terrorsts believe the disgusting fat sloth of a tsa unarmed security guard counts as actual security Aug 10 05:26:58 blackberries are a threat to national security Aug 10 05:27:01 RST38h: I ask because I have a family plan, exactly as you suggest. Were you able to get a family plan from Tmobile USA, or do you just use Tmobile USA for roaming and use whatever plan it is in your home country? Aug 10 05:27:08 when it's really just some overweight person who had a friend that got them a job from being a midnight security guard at a strip mall in the ghetto Aug 10 05:28:10 sooner or later there's going to be some sick that busts out an n900 and starts shooting people with the death ray and the tsa guys are going to be the first to go with their iron on badges simply because they look like they hold a position of authority Aug 10 05:28:12 kwtm: Using a tmobile account when in the US Aug 10 05:28:17 sick/sicko Aug 10 05:28:35 boost the fmtx power and fry everyone's nuts Aug 10 05:28:35 Macer: But only after Nokia enabled the deathray with PR1.3 Aug 10 05:28:57 well with the advent of meego.....? Aug 10 05:29:19 looks like no death ray for me :( Aug 10 05:29:21 btw, FWIW multisim works by individual SIM cards with their own unique IMSI, and it's just the "DNS" in carrier's network that routes same number to all three Aug 10 05:29:57 * RST38h doubts IMSI can be overwritten at all: that would be a security nightmare Aug 10 05:29:59 if you use SIM with same IMSI then always the one that registered last is used, the others are 'disconnected' Aug 10 05:30:21 I'm looking for someone who has successfully compiled PyPy w/ Maemo "Diablo". Aug 10 05:30:31 DocScrutinizer: then phones need to be made with external sim ports ;) Aug 10 05:30:42 ok, time to go. Aug 10 05:30:50 RST38h: Okay. I will ask Tmobile whether I can have two SIM cards with the same number, and say that someone else was able to do it. Maybe that will enable me to do it. I do have two SIMs from Tmobile that had the same number at different times, but the old one was deactivated. Aug 10 05:30:59 kwtm: i hated taking my sim out too Aug 10 05:31:12 i wish i could have avoided it. it became too much of a hassle and i just use the n900 now and sold the g1 Aug 10 05:31:19 spinningcompass: funny fact, i actually did manage that like 2-3 years ago Aug 10 05:31:24 spinningcompass: when i started playing with n800 initially Aug 10 05:31:34 Stskeeps: Please tell me you kept a copy. (prays) :) Aug 10 05:31:35 my mobile operator didn't fall for the "gimme cheap stuff or i'll go to the competitor" trick :( Aug 10 05:31:37 Macer: Funny you say that about external ports. With my Treo650 I was able to take out the SIM any time, but with the N900 I need to take out the battery first and then reboot. Aug 10 05:31:45 spinningcompass: no, i left that job :P Aug 10 05:31:55 kwtm: that's most phones Aug 10 05:32:15 i suppose because phone manufactureres don't want people just ripping out sims and losing them Aug 10 05:32:31 i'm sure the majority of people don't even know what the sim is ;) Aug 10 05:32:38 Macer: Really? I guess Palm did have something going for it. But it's as if the software division of Palm said, "Hey, Palm hardware is pretty good. Let's compensate by making sucky software." Aug 10 05:32:49 haha Aug 10 05:33:01 they have webos nowadays don't they? :) Aug 10 05:33:59 i've never tried it but i heard it's not too bad.. .but trying to name a new os after a 1990s trend... :) Aug 10 05:34:10 Macer: Yeah, I decided not even to go there. It's like, finally, Palm 3.5 has a community large enough for critical mass, and then they said, "Let's make a new Palm OS 5 that is not compatible with anything, and then force the community to run Palm 3.5 programs through an emulator! I mean, what could go wrong? It's not like we have competition or anything!" Aug 10 05:34:11 T-Mobile US only has PAYG data plans for their Hiptop devices, which basically requires spoofing IMSI or whatever Aug 10 05:34:15 spinningcompass: can i ask what exactly you need it for? Aug 10 05:35:10 ah well. time to get some sleep. night. Aug 10 05:35:24 Macer: And then, later, "Uhh, customers, can you come back, please? We'll even make a Linux based OS! Although we'll tie it to a phone provider that doesn't even use SIM cards so you can't use your Palm Pre's overseas, but other than that it's a very good system that we're going to make Real Soon Now!" Aug 10 05:35:31 Stskeeps: I've written a program to run on Windows, Mac, Linux, and the Nokia N810 (which also runs Linux, after a fashion). I'm looking to speed up the program on the Nokia. Aug 10 05:35:57 Duhh... the reason I keep coming back to the N900 is because it runs Linux, so long after it becomes obsolete it's still useful to me. Hah! Aug 10 05:36:22 That's why I still love my Sharp Zaurus 5600. :) Aug 10 05:37:41 Anyway, I'm going to go reflash my N900 for the nth time. I think I've finally figured out the problem with my infinite boot. Aug 10 05:38:01 spinningcompass: i still maintain you should look into building it on for example meego netbook and then it'd be portable to other handset instances.. Aug 10 05:38:59 kwtm: I think you're dreaming Aug 10 05:39:17 Stskeeps: That's an interesting idea. Aug 10 05:40:19 oooh, they've actually did it at alst :) http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/26/design-by-community-sketches-poll/ Aug 10 05:42:22 spinningcompass: cos the toolchain in diablo is just way too bad for pypy Aug 10 05:42:39 Stskeeps: "Way too bad" --- meaning defective or excessively groovy? Aug 10 05:42:51 spinningcompass: defective in terms of building anything modern Aug 10 05:45:45 The fact that there's a "howto" on codespeak.net that describes the step-by-step process of building PyPy for Maemo, tells me that PyPy *can* be built on Maemo. It doesn't mean it can be built on the Diablo edition, which might (by now) be too outdated to cope with PyPy (or anything else non-trivial). Aug 10 05:46:26 spinningcompass: or used to be able to, or n900 .. Aug 10 05:46:31 is the a a "panic button" i can click to shut down all network activity instantly,so ican test some stuff with mobile internet and if i notice? Aug 10 05:46:34 stskeeps: Indeed. Perhaps I should buy an N900, use Fremantle (which *can* build PyPy --- I tried, even though I don't have a PDA to run it on) and be happy :) Aug 10 05:46:38 ah, nvm, offline mode :) Aug 10 05:46:54 duh! :P Aug 10 05:53:37 have you ever heard of a trick to get free internet where you use the MMS conection instead of the regular one? Aug 10 06:16:08 it can't be this simple Aug 10 06:17:51 ? Aug 10 06:18:16 trying somthing i read on the internet that suposedly woudl gimme free internet Aug 10 06:18:25 ah Aug 10 06:18:27 i'mn confused now Aug 10 06:18:37 i tried pinging google and it worked, now it isn't working Aug 10 06:20:22 TiagoTiago, I guess the MMS connection has a data cap, would be logical, since the mms' are limited size. Aug 10 06:20:46 no, it's dead, not connecting anymore, not sure exactly what happened Aug 10 06:20:57 TiagoTiago, heh Aug 10 06:22:20 I wonder if it matters that the signal went from 3G to 2.5 Aug 10 06:23:55 yep, now 3G is back it conected Aug 10 06:24:19 so far no charge, but they somtimes take a few minutes to charge Aug 10 06:24:46 crap, there goes my money Aug 10 06:25:33 lost a couple of dollars just for loading Google's homepage Aug 10 06:25:59 lol, i'm even getting 3.5 signal Xp Aug 10 06:27:58 lets see if i can setup DNS tunneling and if they will charge for it Aug 10 06:31:36 I wasn't aware we had 3.5g network over here Aug 10 06:36:12 TiagoTiago: It's halfway between the Verizon store and the Spring store. :) Aug 10 06:36:23 er, Sprint. Never mind. I'll stop trying to be funny; brb Aug 10 06:36:51 lol Aug 10 06:46:35 lcuk, I wasn't hallucinating about the keys powering off the phone Aug 10 06:47:00 If I press the g and h keys at the same time, the phone powers off Aug 10 06:47:19 if I press any key and then the e key shortly after that, it powers off Aug 10 06:47:46 If I open and close the keyboard 2 times, it shuts down Aug 10 06:48:45 It isn't a clean shutdown though. It's as if the power has just been cut. The screen goes out line by line, the same as powering off an old game boy Aug 10 06:49:32 This happened a few weeks ago with another n900 Aug 10 06:49:59 The usb port fell out of that one, and I was charging the battery using a regular lipo charger Aug 10 06:50:36 Some people the n900 simply seems to hate. Aug 10 06:50:52 That phone was replaced with this one, the only thing that is the same is the battery and sim card Aug 10 06:51:22 needless to say, this makes the phone very hard to use Aug 10 06:51:28 SpeedEvil, no kidding Aug 10 06:52:49 I have reflashed the phone already, although I don't believe that this is software related, as I can power it off the very moment it boots Aug 10 06:53:03 in fact Aug 10 06:53:24 With the G-H kill combination depressed, I can't even power it on at all Aug 10 06:54:50 :( Aug 10 06:55:53 I can't find anything remotely similar with google Aug 10 06:58:05 I would have guessed at water damage from the symptoms Aug 10 06:58:36 Exactly what I thought with the first one Aug 10 06:58:55 but I figured that if I was replacing it from the faulty usb port, the problem would be solved Aug 10 06:58:57 do you know of a tuotiral to set up a Windows machine as the target for DNS tunneling ? Aug 10 07:18:14 Moo all Aug 10 07:18:31 hello RST38h Aug 10 07:28:30 lol, there is still a few cents trickling away from my little test of conecting using the MMS server instead of the regular connection Aug 10 07:29:05 hmm are repositories down or what Aug 10 07:29:16 W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle-1.2/non-free/binary-armel/Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 193.184.164.139 80] Aug 10 07:31:04 kke: what do you think? Aug 10 07:31:21 dunno, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/non-free/binary-armel/Packages works Aug 10 07:32:00 I think yippie Aug 10 07:32:12 kke, wrong IP address Aug 10 07:32:30 morning Aug 10 07:32:39 app update messed up my sources.list Aug 10 07:33:04 jacekowski, hi Aug 10 07:34:02 repository.maemo.org is an alias for repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net. | repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net is an alias for a515.g.akamai.net. | a515.g.akamai.net has address 202.7.187.32 | a515.g.akamai.net has address 202.7.187.41 Aug 10 07:34:31 fremantle not fremantle-1.2 Aug 10 07:34:39 yep Aug 10 07:35:00 i installed the repos from repository.maemo.org using the browser Aug 10 07:35:15 there is no fremantle-1.2 repo Aug 10 07:35:39 well, there used to be fremantle-1.2 for a while Aug 10 07:35:59 problem solved Aug 10 07:36:46 I posted a summary and some more details here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60072 Aug 10 07:53:47 jophish, yeah that's definitely a hardware fault somewhere inside the device, I tried similar actions on my n900 and it did not shutdown Aug 10 07:55:14 do you have lots of ants where you live ( or anywhere else you spend any amount of time with your N900 hanging out_ Aug 10 07:55:16 ) Aug 10 07:55:45 how can my processes grow from 175 at start up to over 200 in a couple days, what can I exec to restart my desktop without rebooting the whole phone? Aug 10 07:56:04 ctrl + alt + backspace? Aug 10 07:56:20 runs x dont it? Aug 10 07:56:24 not sudeo rebbot now, right? Aug 10 07:56:28 er, damn typos Aug 10 07:56:34 sudo reboot now* Aug 10 07:56:49 reboot does the whole device Aug 10 07:58:10 i remember seeing somthing about killall int he forum a while ago, i don't remember details Aug 10 07:59:20 i think it was for restart a bunch of daemons Aug 10 07:59:34 ham5: units? Aug 10 08:00:40 ham5: assuming you mean Mb.. that doesn't sound unreasonable. watch out for the difference between virtual and resident sizes Aug 10 08:01:10 processes Aug 10 08:01:18 things running Aug 10 08:06:29 what do i need to run jar programs that run on Windows? Aug 10 08:08:15 shit, my credits keep trickling down :( Aug 10 08:08:33 Tiagotiago: icedtea6 perhaps Aug 10 08:10:13 ok Aug 10 08:13:49 luke-jr, ping Aug 10 08:15:26 how can i make all programs see the file system as it is isntead of just the stuff inside N900? Aug 10 08:15:33 NOkia N900* Aug 10 08:16:31 Tiagotiago: please be more specific Aug 10 08:16:36 like, have the notes program be able to browse the/dev folder and open somthing from there Aug 10 08:16:38 good moaning Aug 10 08:17:04 from a windows machine? Aug 10 08:17:15 some programs see the folders structure like what i get with FTP, while others can only see a small subset of folders Aug 10 08:17:23 no, in the N900 itself Aug 10 08:17:43 i want all programs to see the folders like how i see when i connect to the N900 via FTP Aug 10 08:18:10 * Jucato thinks it's hardcoded into the file manager and file dialogs to only view ~/MyDocs Aug 10 08:18:18 you mean for filebrowsing? Aug 10 08:18:22 yeah Aug 10 08:18:31 and text editors etc Aug 10 08:18:35 Jucato's Aug 10 08:19:06 I think that pathes are hardcoded to mmc1 and MyDocs Aug 10 08:19:31 any way to bypass that hardcoding and let them all see it as it is? Aug 10 08:19:38 or handed over by some stupid script like the guessing of partitions... Aug 10 08:20:43 bindmount / to MyDocs/root/ or something (be aware of the loop) Aug 10 08:20:59 or mybe just the stuff you realy need Aug 10 08:22:36 is the loop a bad thing or it will jsut be there? Aug 10 08:22:52 i mean, will it mess up anything or it will just be kinda artifacty? Aug 10 08:23:41 aptitude dies wit a segfault :( Aug 10 08:25:07 'cause of the loop? Aug 10 08:33:45 "N900 wont boot after renaming /usr" omfg Aug 10 08:33:47 does it ever end .. Aug 10 08:35:25 :) Aug 10 08:35:40 alterego: :D Aug 10 08:35:48 alterego: link! Aug 10 08:36:23 ~ping Aug 10 08:36:24 ~pong Aug 10 08:36:27 alterego: lol Aug 10 08:36:43 Bug status: NOSHITSHERLOCK Aug 10 08:37:23 morning \o Aug 10 08:37:34 mornin lcuk o/ Aug 10 08:38:09 * pupnik gets out the surgical tubing Aug 10 08:38:23 "i deleted my system32 directory and now windows won't start" Aug 10 08:42:33 frals: first page on tmo, I think I exagerrated a bit, that's the topic title, but what he wanted to do was mount a usr partition and remove it from rootfs Aug 10 08:42:41 Why I don't know ... Aug 10 08:42:58 lcuk: o/ Aug 10 08:43:13 alterego: lol it's that guy Aug 10 08:43:19 he was here yesterday Aug 10 08:43:23 Heh Aug 10 08:43:30 asking how to move /usr out of root Aug 10 08:43:38 Heh Aug 10 08:43:46 Poor guy Aug 10 08:44:21 kerio, why move it when you can REmove it? :P Aug 10 08:45:12 lol Aug 10 08:45:26 yeah, who cares about all those stupid "programs" and stuff Aug 10 08:45:40 Heh Aug 10 08:53:44 how hard would it be to make a daemont hat woudl watch the important parts of the system and pop a confirmation dialog whenever somthing that shouldn't be touched if you don't know what you're doing is being touched? Aug 10 08:54:08 Tiagotiago: willing to bet the DRM in harmattan will stop a lot of idiotic usage Aug 10 08:54:09 :P Aug 10 08:54:31 Clippy: It seems you're trying to brick your N900, would you like some assistance? Aug 10 08:54:37 Xp Aug 10 08:55:00 DRM? ARGH - This is a family channel - No swearing allowed. Aug 10 08:56:15 I always bring my family to this channel Aug 10 08:56:43 unless it stands for Daydreaming Rhapsody Maestro , kill it with fire Aug 10 08:56:57 direct rendering manager Aug 10 09:03:19 \o wazd, can you breathe now? Aug 10 09:03:40 lcuk: well, we have a short break today :) Aug 10 09:04:24 "the combined sigh of relief from moscow was enough to push the cloud 170 miles South" Aug 10 09:05:01 lol Aug 10 09:09:19 what is "Enter xosw ro ewmocw operator lock" ? I mean, what does it do? Aug 10 09:09:26 erm, damn typos Aug 10 09:09:33 Enter code to remove operator locks* Aug 10 09:09:44 lcuk: :D Aug 10 09:10:01 if your phone/internet tablet has been locked by the provider Aug 10 09:10:22 it can't know wether it is lock or not? Aug 10 09:10:38 ask your telephone service provider Aug 10 09:10:43 s/telephone/mobile/ Aug 10 09:10:43 hatake_kakashi meant: ask your mobile service provider Aug 10 09:10:50 locked* Aug 10 09:10:57 and probably not Aug 10 09:11:04 i mean, why does it offer to unlock if it isn't locked? Aug 10 09:11:08 my n900 comes unlocked and I saw that feature Aug 10 09:11:23 probably to allow ease of access? *shrugs* Aug 10 09:12:05 if it was locked, then make it very easy to unlock, but if it isn't locked, then what the fuck are you talking about locks and shit? Aug 10 09:13:16 it it was locked and was made easy to unlock, mobile phone vendors won't like to sell that handset. If it isn't locked and you're bitching like a little girl why not ask nokia? it comes standard on their official firmware Aug 10 09:13:34 lol Aug 10 09:14:24 What's with airplane peanuts? Aug 10 09:15:12 *tap tap* is this thing on? Aug 10 09:15:47 boo Aug 10 09:16:09 luke-jr: cool work on gprs/umts with ofono Aug 10 09:16:54 moo TomaszD Aug 10 09:17:18 moo Aug 10 09:18:42 apt-get moo Aug 10 09:18:52 (__) Aug 10 09:18:53 (oo) Aug 10 09:18:53 /------\/ Aug 10 09:18:53 / | || Aug 10 09:18:53 * /\---/\ Aug 10 09:18:55 ~~ ~~ Aug 10 09:18:57 ...."Have you mooed today?"... Aug 10 09:19:16 moo moo Aug 10 09:21:07 talking about moo, one last thing before i go, i got the Moobox prog, but it doesn't seem to work, how exactly am i supposed to use it? Aug 10 09:23:45 how do you use the hardware jpeg compression unit on the n900? Aug 10 09:24:02 oh well, cya Aug 10 09:24:31 hmm koala_man if its used, I would expect it to be in libjpeg to be honest - but specifically which hardware jpeg compression hardware are you talking about Aug 10 09:24:58 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_CPU#Imaging that one Aug 10 09:25:42 is that the only specific mention of the hardware? no chip names or anything we can grep sources with? Aug 10 09:26:29 It might just be talking about the dsp ... Aug 10 09:26:38 I just noticed it, and wondered what it was about Aug 10 09:26:43 indeed, but its ambiguous Aug 10 09:27:35 Presumably stolen from the TI docs. Aug 10 09:28:18 I mean, even the n810 had the IVA Aug 10 09:28:47 alterego, be clear with your wording please, its not stolen from by any means Aug 10 09:29:11 yeah, n900 has IVA as well Aug 10 09:29:12 Riped then :P Aug 10 09:29:35 copypasted Aug 10 09:29:36 ~ripped Aug 10 09:31:15 how can you use it to encode jpeg then? which libs do that? Aug 10 09:32:07 koala_man: we don't know what "it" is. Aug 10 09:33:13 IVA 2+ on the OMAP 3430 Aug 10 09:34:16 or maybe it's the ISP, according to http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=14649&navigationId=12643&templateId=6123 Aug 10 09:34:21 you need drivers Aug 10 09:34:26 there are no drivers Aug 10 09:34:26 ok, since we seem to have identified this, can it be checked to see if its actually used and marked as such in the wiki page mentioned Aug 10 09:34:29 you have to make ones Aug 10 09:35:37 (even marking that its the IVA would be helpful) Aug 10 09:36:26 ok, now for real, last thing and i'll go to bed Aug 10 09:37:02 is ther ea way i can change from offline mode to phone mode at a predeternined time without coding stuff myself? Aug 10 09:37:32 Tiagotiago: there are some tools there for that .. DWIMD ... :) Aug 10 09:38:18 link pls? Aug 10 09:39:47 Hi, I got a strange issue with Qt, sometimes the top-right close (or go back) button just don't work. Anybody had the same issue ? Aug 10 09:40:42 It usually happends in the third or fourth level window (stacked windows) Aug 10 09:47:08 * kwtm is happy! Fixed infinite boot problem :P Finally can start really digging into using N900. Aug 10 09:47:18 * kwtm is off to enjoy N900 Aug 10 09:47:49 have fun \o Aug 10 10:02:54 That's annoying, can't watch youtube now, was working fine yesterday. Aug 10 10:03:54 kwtm: how? Aug 10 10:04:01 new battery + flasher? Aug 10 10:05:42 kerio: It was not a hardware problem. I bought 3 different N900's and they all had the same problem, so I had to conclude it was software. Aug 10 10:05:57 what problem? Aug 10 10:06:05 However, I did have to use the flasher to escape from the infinite boot. Aug 10 10:06:17 it wasn't software then Aug 10 10:06:23 if you reflashed and it worked... Aug 10 10:06:24 Problem was: I would boot up, it would show flashing dots and this would last forever (I let it run for hours and it never completed boot-up) Aug 10 10:07:14 kerio: No, I reflashed the eMMC to its original "blank" state (well, it comes with some files by default). After I used the N900, it would again hang on bootup. So reflashing allowed me to use the device (otherwise I couldn't even make phone calls or get to the desktop screen) but did not solve the problem. Aug 10 10:07:36 you don't reflash just the emmc Aug 10 10:07:36 I am in the process of characterizing under exactly what circumstances this occurs and when it doesn't. Aug 10 10:07:48 you always reflash the combined, or combined+emmc Aug 10 10:08:05 When I reflash, I reflash firmware+eMMC, which makes the device usable like new (but erasing all my data). Aug 10 10:08:19 Reflashing the firmware itself is not enough. Aug 10 10:08:19 yeah, you have to do that Aug 10 10:08:23 or just the rootfs Aug 10 10:09:15 Anyway, it turns out to be a one-line text file that I had created, which was not present by default. Aug 10 10:09:28 what file? Aug 10 10:10:00 But when this text file exists, it affects this program (which is present by default) which I guess is invoked during the boot-up process, which causes that program to go into some infinite loop. Aug 10 10:10:41 I'm trying to get complete details before I file it as a bug. It's the Aug 10 10:11:18 ... Aug 10 10:11:25 oh god the file killed him Aug 10 10:11:37 we'll never know its true identity... Aug 10 10:11:53 hum .. Qt stacked window does not work when if QDialog::exec() is used :/ Aug 10 10:12:02 we should labelled that bug as "THE bug" Aug 10 10:12:14 s/labelled/label/ Aug 10 10:12:15 hatake_kakashi meant: we should label that bug as "THE bug" Aug 10 10:12:16 well .. it works for the first level of QDialog Aug 10 10:20:45 kerio, LOL Aug 10 10:21:20 what is news Aug 10 10:23:44 harkumon, it's the communication of information about recent and important events Aug 10 10:23:58 harkumon, generally speaking. Aug 10 10:24:41 hehe Aug 10 10:26:22 uutisointi for maemo? Aug 10 10:27:00 harkumon, there's an app called news? Aug 10 10:28:11 t seems nokia needs smaller, faster improvements Aug 10 10:28:51 n900 with lower power screen, better speakers, bigger battery Aug 10 10:29:21 they are like mercedes making a new model after 10 years Aug 10 10:57:35 wjat's going on? Aug 10 10:57:43 s/wj/wh/ Aug 10 10:57:44 mece meant: what's going on? Aug 10 11:03:53 mece: looked like a netsplit Aug 10 11:06:24 BCMM, mm Aug 10 11:13:27 Ford_Prefect: any hope to improve performance in pulseaudio when buffer underrun occurs? Aug 10 11:14:30 pupnik: could you provide more details about the problem you're facing? Aug 10 11:16:30 i am facing 30 to 34 percent cpu usage by pulseaudio Aug 10 11:16:59 Any resampling involved? Aug 10 11:17:20 being deiven by openalsoft. bitrate and number of channels. same result apparently Aug 10 11:18:38 looking at the userside, i do like pulse. but it appears to reinitialize the whole thing when xrun happens Aug 10 11:19:20 can i help nag the right people to hire more people? :) Aug 10 11:19:22 pupnik, do you have any, or can you create a testcase scenario for this issue to be reproduced with clear effects? Aug 10 11:19:40 ++ - That would be most useful Aug 10 11:19:59 which Ford_Prefect - the nagging or the testcase :P or both Aug 10 11:20:18 :)) testcase first, please Aug 10 11:20:51 ok well it is from installing gemrb and a baldurs gate program Aug 10 11:21:11 fro t.m.o and my gemrb 'development' thread Aug 10 11:21:32 it is a really good example of everything 'going wrong' imo Aug 10 11:21:47 pupnik, ok, you want help, help - make a bug and put specific things in it - its going to be easier Aug 10 11:21:54 no1 will dig in threads and you know it Aug 10 11:22:38 hmm i just remembered a dream of a huge spider Aug 10 11:23:55 hehe Aug 10 11:23:56 well walk along the web and drop some big things there Aug 10 11:25:32 that particular app isnt the issue, now, is it Aug 10 11:26:05 I've seen these kinds of spikes during calls Aug 10 11:26:24 And I assume that's the resampler + the fact that you need very low latencies Aug 10 11:27:21 Ford_Prefect: why would you need very low latencies? Aug 10 11:29:46 well some games do, particularly emulators Aug 10 11:29:59 DocScrutinizer: I don't recall, tbh Aug 10 11:30:07 I mean where's the technical rationale to get latency <5ms on Application Processor side when the transmission alone via gsm adds at very least 40ms Aug 10 11:30:16 it just seems to bump another 10 pct cpu use when the source cant keep up Aug 10 11:30:40 sounds rather oddly spec'ed to me, from a requirements POV Aug 10 11:32:06 I've got gst-launch on an MP3 file giving me ~25-30% CPU Aug 10 11:32:34 Though that stream requires resampling Aug 10 11:32:34 this is not easy stuff lcuk Aug 10 11:33:31 nope pupnik its not, but showing specific issues would help to diagnose and potentially do something about it Aug 10 11:33:41 i am the guy who attached a trailer to the automobile and can't get up the hill. i dont know what is sapping the horsepower Aug 10 11:34:20 maybe the trailer is just too big and i should buy a different car Aug 10 11:34:23 righ Aug 10 11:34:25 t Aug 10 11:36:59 BTW, when I get rid of the resampling, the cpu usage goes down from ~28% to ~13% Aug 10 11:37:17 (this is a simple gst-launch on the command line) Aug 10 11:41:05 if i write python location application, am i force to use gobject? Aug 10 11:43:08 saltsa_, no. Aug 10 11:44:59 pablo2: use lower gear Aug 10 11:45:05 ehhh Aug 10 11:45:26 mece, well, is there any example how to do it without gobjects/on_changed events? Aug 10 11:45:52 saltsa_, well you could use qt Aug 10 11:47:21 mece, oh, I think I just figured it out :) Aug 10 11:47:42 saltsa_, ok :) Aug 10 11:51:57 Ford_Prefect: could we track down the cpu usage to a particular mixing or resampling process in PA? Aug 10 11:52:17 It's done in the daemon Aug 10 11:52:43 * DocScrutinizer *nod* Aug 10 11:52:48 I tracked it down like this: Aug 10 11:53:07 gst-launch uridecodebin uri=... ! pulsesink Aug 10 11:53:13 (that's with resampling) Aug 10 11:53:25 gst-launch uridecodebin uri=... ! audioresample ! audio/x-raw-int,rate=48000 ! pulsesink Aug 10 11:53:35 That pushes the resampling into the gst thread Aug 10 11:53:36 * realitygaps still trying to figure out how to fix the scrollbar http://realitygaps.com/screenfix.jpg Aug 10 11:54:25 biab Aug 10 11:54:32 and using plughw or even dmix would push it further into ALSA domain Aug 10 11:54:42 wtf is ! Aug 10 11:55:02 It's gst-launch's "pipe operator" Aug 10 11:55:19 realitygaps: what's that "4" in the status bar? Aug 10 11:55:28 and capitalism *is* nonsense Aug 10 11:55:31 other alternatives do exist Aug 10 11:55:42 kerio: uhuh Aug 10 11:55:52 kerio: the 4 is the wifi signal strength applet Aug 10 11:56:01 apt-get install anarchy Aug 10 11:56:10 anarchism Aug 10 11:56:13 i think :) Aug 10 11:56:18 maybe Aug 10 11:56:22 that's not something you install by itself Aug 10 11:56:41 it comes as a dependancy on proletariat-dictatorship-installer, eventually Aug 10 11:56:45 ooh it got dependencies? :-D Aug 10 11:57:04 i think perhaps you need an apt-get remove --purge money first Aug 10 11:57:16 realitygaps: that causes massive instability by iself Aug 10 11:57:18 *itself Aug 10 11:57:18 apt-cache list proletariat-dictatorship-installer -> not found Aug 10 11:57:32 DocScrutinizer: they removed it from the repo Aug 10 11:57:37 ._. Aug 10 11:57:37 apt-get install alternative-currency Aug 10 11:57:58 perhaps replaces dependencies of money package Aug 10 11:58:10 realitygaps: nah, you have to apt-get install communism Aug 10 11:58:18 kerio: package failed Aug 10 11:58:24 hi, my sources.list seems to be getting replaced by the default every time I edit it Aug 10 11:58:36 “Yes, do as I say” Aug 10 11:58:50 VoltageX: you have to create a new file in /etc/apt/sources.d/ Aug 10 11:58:59 or use one of the graphical package managers, they do that Aug 10 11:59:29 kerio: oh, is there a way to *delete* a repository from the gui then? Aug 10 11:59:51 hmm... tap and hold over it, from HAM? Aug 10 12:00:18 * VoltageX just worked out what HAM meant. Aug 10 12:00:35 not sure what fapman does Aug 10 12:00:50 (hehe, awesome apt frontends here on maemo) Aug 10 12:03:20 also, will Hildon decide to check for updates while on 3G? Aug 10 12:03:32 im missing all the Ncr, Ntm and Swa ttf fonts in my /usr/share/fonts is there a package i can install to get them back? Aug 10 12:07:22 DocScrutinizer: while I still think "pre-resampling" the sounds makes sense on a resource-limited device, playing with the default resampler in the PA config might get some gain Aug 10 12:07:55 mece, well, still having the problem. What I want is to have current location etc. in python application but I don't want to use qt or gobject. How I get the location? Aug 10 12:08:25 Ford_Prefect: please rephrase "get some gain" Aug 10 12:08:51 DocScrutinizer: using a lower complexity resampler would lower the CPU load Aug 10 12:09:01 so nothing to do with gain Aug 10 12:09:01 Hard to quantify without actually testing Aug 10 12:09:14 (as in dB-gain) Aug 10 12:10:48 Ford_Prefect: ack. That's why I suggested plug plugin of ALSA as a possible reference. Never seen such issues with ALSA plugins, and still they seem to me like doing a pretty good job Aug 10 12:11:15 DocScrutinizer: on a desktop-grade CPU, I assume? Aug 10 12:11:24 Where you won't see these kinds of issues with PA either Aug 10 12:13:02 I actually see those issues with PA as well on desktop (well I did until I decided to sanitize the whole default audio setup and purge PA) - but no, I'm talking about samsung S3C2442 here, a SoC used in Openmoko Freerunner Aug 10 12:13:42 Hmm, would be good to get to the bottom of the problem, then Aug 10 12:15:49 on a wild guess (as I've never looked into the details of it) it seems problem root cause is PA's async architecture Aug 10 12:16:59 otherwise how could the mixer/resampler happily blast away on resampling/mixing a *stopped* stream Aug 10 12:17:11 and eat CPU like mad on doing that Aug 10 12:17:20 Er, you've seen that happen on Maemo? Aug 10 12:17:26 nope Aug 10 12:17:51 Weird, last night I was looking at downloads, had almost 8k, now there's suddenly over 10k Aug 10 12:18:05 doesn't mean it's not there on maemo, but this is actually common knowledge of desktop PA behaviour Aug 10 12:18:10 Was there a mass reflashing last night? :D Aug 10 12:19:06 DocScrutinizer: never seen that here Aug 10 12:19:18 At least in the last 2-3 years Aug 10 12:19:49 seen/noticed? :) Aug 10 12:20:18 I would've noticed. Blasted laptop starts heating up any time something starts hogging the CPU. :) Aug 10 12:20:29 this doesn't mean they changed the basic architecture, just maybe some bug with signalling stopped-status got fixed Aug 10 12:20:43 http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/HowToDebugCPULoadBugs might also have something to do with it Aug 10 12:25:27 Anyway, that's my Aug 10 12:25:40 take on the problems pupnik has been seeing Aug 10 12:26:06 Would be useful to see the latency on the "bad" streams too when he's around next Aug 10 12:27:40 anyway for my latest experiences with PA I just can say: the combination of ARTS/phonon(KDE4) & PA is a constant PITA with all sorts of issues like audio failing for nothing all of a sudden, latencies of hours(sic!), audio completely nonfunct for several ALSA based apps etc, while ALSA plughw + dmix setup never gives me such headaches and works like a charm Aug 10 12:28:36 I've seen a fair number of users with assorted problems, but I've really not heard people complaining of most of the things you seem to face Aug 10 12:29:12 and yes, did I already mention PA's alsa compatibility plugin for ALSA based apps is obviously broken to a point of FUBAR Aug 10 12:29:46 I've got it as my default device here. My only complaints have been with the Flash plugin. Aug 10 12:30:01 mhm Aug 10 12:30:11 fwiw, speex-fixed-0 doesn't really do much for decreasing CPU usage over speex-fixed-2 (which is the default resampler) Aug 10 12:30:47 It doesn't support *any* beyond the very basic alsa API function calls (or it pretends to do but really just messes them up) Aug 10 12:31:25 DocScrutinizer: got any bugs I can look at? Aug 10 12:31:48 (i.e. for the problems you've had, including broken bits of API) Aug 10 12:31:58 nothing specific, as I refused to look into PA Aug 10 12:33:01 for general brokenness of compatibility plugin see loads of complaints against twinklephone not working anymore since distros moved to PA for default Aug 10 12:33:29 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/messages Aug 10 12:34:49 twinkle does a few more involved things with ALSA API like querying buffer states etc, and that seems to break PA plugin on a regular basis Aug 10 12:35:58 t me it seems it's been developed and tested for very basic plain vanilla playback and record usage only Aug 10 12:37:27 I don't see a single bug report mentioning twinkle or twinklephone on PA trac Aug 10 12:37:38 so a simple mp3 player may work with it, while apps with some not so basic requirements wrt latency etc, like twinklephone or flash (for lipsync) fail Aug 10 12:37:48 Which would definitely help so that somoeone with the time and incination could actually, y'know, try to fix it Aug 10 12:40:29 hmhm, yes. I'm not the one to post such ticket though, as I'm (even more) happy without any PA and also development of twinkle has stopped some 18 months ago, and I'm not the one to push PA "integration" to a prog that works in 99.95% whe used with plain vanilla ALSA Aug 10 12:53:09 on a general sidenote: I don't see any benefit coming from PA for any of the usecases I face everyday, so I somewhat dislike the whole why that PA is "pushed down everybodies" throat and now it's the app devels that get nagged to implement native PA into their sound apps to restore working sound. My take on this is: ALSA was quite a defacto standard (and still is, for the card drivers), and the only 2 things PA claims to provide that are Aug 10 12:53:11 real improvements over ALSA are on the fly switching of soundcards and audio-over-IP. For the first one there are ways to do that in ALSA, though in a less flexible way, for the audio-over-network part I fail to see how that justifies pushing ALSA into every distro for the default audio subsystem. If anybody needs that, then it's best practice to install it, whether from PA or from any of the other soundserver pkgs already offering it Aug 10 12:54:10 And the adjustable (and allowing fairly large) latency Aug 10 12:54:42 And other stuff that has been rehashed over way too many times to merit going over again Aug 10 12:54:47 hmm, adjustable latency is a very special niche case. Only needed for musicians Aug 10 12:56:43 Why the gekk would a musician want a fairly large latency? Aug 10 12:57:44 you might want a defined controllable latency, so you get in sync multitrac recordings Aug 10 12:58:55 for usecases like phone voice it's nonsense in my book, as user doesn't care about latencies <100ms Aug 10 12:59:52 for phone voice you have to *reduce* latency as much as you can Aug 10 13:00:34 100ms - no. Aug 10 13:00:40 mhm, but please emphasize the "as much as you can" and add "by using sensible means" Aug 10 13:00:41 500ms ->600ms - maybe Aug 10 13:01:12 yep, that's the range where delay becomes noticeable Aug 10 13:01:48 But onc eyou have 500ms in the network anyway - you don't want to add 100ms because it's a bit hard. Aug 10 13:02:31 sure but it's useless effort to try and reduce it from 600ms to 590ms Aug 10 13:03:09 for all but the "one line of code, no additional resorces used" case Aug 10 13:03:37 to implement PA for that is complete nonsense Aug 10 13:04:40 I wonder, is there sources of maemo-connectivity? Aug 10 13:04:51 afaik nope Aug 10 13:05:02 maemo-connectivity_5.0+0m5.tar.gz in repo contains only debian dir Aug 10 13:05:33 what is maemo-connectivity doing? Aug 10 13:06:14 * frals trouts lcuk and MohammadAG51 Aug 10 13:06:40 rmrfchik: see http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html and http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture Aug 10 13:07:05 DocScrutinizer: you can do audio over network with pure alsa Aug 10 13:07:10 jacekowski: I hope it controls connectivity Aug 10 13:07:26 jacekowski: \o/ Aug 10 13:07:36 jacekowski: even one more moot point for PA Aug 10 13:08:04 PA sucks ._. Aug 10 13:08:20 only thing that alsa doesn't have is per app volume Aug 10 13:08:27 which is very very very nice thing Aug 10 13:08:38 jackd was better in every damn way Aug 10 13:08:39 and software mixing Aug 10 13:08:42 frals, how come my twittersheep thing does not show trout :P Aug 10 13:08:50 or did you not add that to your bio Aug 10 13:09:57 think my twitterbio is empty ;) Aug 10 13:10:03 just testing that twittersheep myself! Aug 10 13:10:18 jacekowski: wrong, I published a very simple hack to get per-app volume, some 2 years ago Aug 10 13:10:21 heh, http://twittersheep.com/results.php?u=frals Aug 10 13:10:51 jacekowski: software mixing is done in dmix since ages, with better results than PA seems to yield Aug 10 13:11:22 "dedicated more then everything freak" O_o Aug 10 13:14:31 * MohammadAG51 lcukslaps frals Aug 10 13:14:40 connectivity is closed source Aug 10 13:14:42 damn nokia Aug 10 13:14:56 oi watch who you hit with that thing MohammadAG51! Aug 10 13:14:56 at least we're using connman in meego Aug 10 13:14:56 :P Aug 10 13:15:09 Stskeeps: "yey"? ;) Aug 10 13:15:17 frals: heh Aug 10 13:15:20 * MohammadAG51 would rather see network-manager Aug 10 13:15:43 I had hope I can some how fix what is doing when device going online Aug 10 13:15:59 I don't want apt running when going online on gprs Aug 10 13:16:17 jacekowski: (per app volume) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/twinklephone/message/1731 Aug 10 13:16:18 while true; do killall apt-worker; done Aug 10 13:16:18 uh, is that defined in some closed part of connectivity? Aug 10 13:16:34 MohammadAG51: and I do want to get it when do wifi ;) Aug 10 13:16:56 dpkg --purge apt Aug 10 13:16:58 frals: dunno. I want something to start digging. Aug 10 13:17:02 seriously, don't do that Aug 10 13:17:24 MohammadAG51: I'm too qualified in debian to do this ;) Aug 10 13:17:38 hmm Aug 10 13:17:41 dpkg --purge dpkg Aug 10 13:17:46 i wonder if it can do that Aug 10 13:17:52 Ugh, switched to tethering my N900 over BT because my ADSL line is dead. Complete short in the wires outside :( Aug 10 13:18:18 rmrfchik: set the autoupdate frequency to a year or something Aug 10 13:18:36 X-Fade: dont forget to plug the charger in otherwise you are going to curse again in 10minutes ;o Aug 10 13:18:42 kerio: but I like to have autoupdate when device going online at home wifi Aug 10 13:18:48 do it manually Aug 10 13:18:55 there's an icd2 api afaik Aug 10 13:19:03 frals: Yeah, it is already hot. But it is on charger :) Aug 10 13:19:08 rmrfchik: there is some /etc/blabla related to network up? Aug 10 13:19:11 X-Fade, i normally just plug direct to usb, n900 normally acts admirably as a usb dongle and it stays charged up! Aug 10 13:19:14 kerio: and second thing I like to switch off is to go Online (account online) on GPRS Aug 10 13:19:17 * frals recall reading something similar at some point Aug 10 13:19:28 something like when on wifi do shit, when on 3G do other shit, when switching between both, trout frals Aug 10 13:19:38 lol Aug 10 13:19:47 lcuk: it doesn't if you use it heavily Aug 10 13:19:52 lcuk: yeah, I just wanted to be a bit more mobile with my laptop ;) Aug 10 13:20:36 * lcuk never had any problems, but yeah wireless works Aug 10 13:20:51 yay my vibra is back Aug 10 13:20:52 3G/GPRS are used "in field" when you quick need to get info in browser,mail. And apt/skype eats all traffic Aug 10 13:20:57 it seems random though Aug 10 13:20:58 :/ Aug 10 13:21:26 *quick* need, with modest? :O Aug 10 13:22:09 frals: no any apt/online related stuff in /etc/networking Aug 10 13:22:09 anyone know how to get fonts like NcrBR4nh.ttf back in /usr/share/fonts are they in a package? Aug 10 13:22:20 rmrfchik: the autoupdate thingy is different Aug 10 13:22:21 kerio: with gmail/opera ;) Aug 10 13:22:29 rmrfchik: oh, i see Aug 10 13:22:31 :) Aug 10 13:22:41 Modest is, well, not suited to work well Aug 10 13:22:55 i'd like WifiSwitcher to actually be more than just a button Aug 10 13:23:10 Works fine for simple mail notification and checking for me though. Aug 10 13:24:12 X-Fade: it went crazy with my pop3 account. Shows old dead mail with dups (even triple items) Aug 10 13:24:36 Can't find any "sync mail and forget local" Aug 10 13:24:57 rmrfchik: ttss pop3. That is so last century. Aug 10 13:25:00 rmrfchik: delete account, try again? Aug 10 13:25:09 delete account, rm -rf .modest, try again? Aug 10 13:25:12 kerio: yeah, seems like last resort Aug 10 13:25:17 (note - .modest may or may not be the correct directory) Aug 10 13:25:23 (probably not) Aug 10 13:26:17 X-Fade: pop3 is only remote access method on mail.ru Aug 10 13:26:45 rmrfchik: get gmail, set gmail to get mail from mail.ru, use gmail Aug 10 13:26:46 rmrfchik: Setup a gmail account to fetch from pop3 and use google imap then? Aug 10 13:26:52 X-Fade: BEAT YA Aug 10 13:26:52 heh. Aug 10 13:26:55 X-Fade: google is evil! Aug 10 13:27:13 frals: I'm guessing mail.ru is too. Aug 10 13:27:29 * frals pets hotmail.com ;D Aug 10 13:27:37 google da win! Aug 10 13:28:18 ( while true; do killall apt-worker; done) nope, please don't! `while killall apt-worker; do sleep 1; done` is a much better approach Aug 10 13:29:23 hmm Aug 10 13:29:30 there's an even better approach Aug 10 13:29:37 swap apt-worker with a script Aug 10 13:29:44 #!/bin/sh Aug 10 13:29:57 echo "haha, i'd like to see you rape my bandwidth now!" Aug 10 13:30:13 DocScrutinizer: won't that stop always? Aug 10 13:30:22 MohammadAG51: apt-worker is used by ham and fapman Aug 10 13:30:24 of course, HAM will stop working, but who cares Aug 10 13:30:36 kerio, err, apt-get is used by fapman afaik Aug 10 13:30:44 killall apt-worker exits with 1if there's no apt-worker Aug 10 13:31:08 chmod -x is enough Aug 10 13:31:43 yay kernel upgrade Aug 10 13:34:56 i just updated the kernel-power Aug 10 13:35:07 it updated kernel-power, kernel-power-modules and kernel-power-flasher Aug 10 13:35:15 do i need to do something? Aug 10 13:35:20 oh nvm it does it by itself Aug 10 13:36:01 do something Aug 10 13:36:12 * kerio does something Aug 10 13:36:20 any1 have aptitude working? Aug 10 13:36:55 hmm, the i18n for the pin request window title is - retranslating - "pin code" Aug 10 13:37:07 isn't a code also a number? Aug 10 13:37:30 mine is SIGSEGVing Aug 10 13:39:43 pin == Personal Identification NUMBER Aug 10 13:40:10 DocScrutinizer: i know Aug 10 13:40:14 aslo a code might consist of more than just digits Aug 10 13:40:19 "personal identification number code" sounds really bad Aug 10 13:41:10 though jury seems to be out still on whether we can actually and always use PIN with alpha chars Aug 10 13:41:13 rmoravcik, i'm the maintainer Aug 10 13:41:22 the GUI segfualts, I know Aug 10 13:41:29 feel free to fix libcwidget ;) Aug 10 13:41:39 the CLI works though Aug 10 13:41:42 I AM THE RMRFCHIK! Aug 10 13:41:44 anyway it's strongly deprecated as you'll get into trouble on usual phones with a pin like "AbCd" Aug 10 13:41:48 duh Aug 10 13:42:09 DocScrutinizer: alphanumeric pin? Aug 10 13:42:10 MohammadAG51: main feature I want from aptitude -- new packages list Aug 10 13:42:10 :o Aug 10 13:42:12 is that standard? Aug 10 13:43:07 kerio: I'd not know what to add to my above 3 posts Aug 10 13:43:45 ~flashing Aug 10 13:43:46 [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Aug 10 13:44:24 some info about the N900 - is it possible to read TMC (traffic over RDS) data from the FM tuner? does the light sensor give finegrained values? is the proximity sensor on/off or does it give a distance? Aug 10 13:45:09 LjL: possibly; yes; on/off Aug 10 13:46:45 kerio: what's new in kernel? Aug 10 13:47:28 dunno Aug 10 13:47:59 LjL: Aug 10 13:48:02 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0029/lux Aug 10 13:48:03 184 Aug 10 13:50:09 hurm .... just got myself a N900 .. facing a wifi connectivity issue with it .. after the first few minutes, the connection kindof died .. IP address still in tact, but theres no response when pinging my router .. turning off the power saving only gives me speed improvement (40ms ping to 3ms) but doesnt solve the disconnect issue .. Aug 10 13:50:11 good. i'd like to use it as a light meter Aug 10 13:50:47 KageSenshi: what is the whole setup? Aug 10 13:51:09 KageSenshi: that's odd Aug 10 13:51:47 its new, just played around with it .. thinking of reflashing it back to default and see if can reproduce Aug 10 13:51:54 DocScrutinizer: had another router set to wpa2 and got connected but had no traffic Aug 10 13:51:57 LjL: "there's an app for that" Aug 10 13:51:59 i did install a bunch of stuff Aug 10 13:52:08 same router with wpa did work... Aug 10 13:52:31 gprs/3g works fine though Aug 10 13:52:42 DocScrutinizer: heh, nice Aug 10 13:52:49 KageSenshi: not the setup of your n900 the connection settings... from both router and n900 Aug 10 13:53:20 KageSenshi: by any chance you installed joghurt sport or maemo hotspot, or maybe auto disconnect or sth like that? Aug 10 13:53:45 LjL: it is a desktop widget and shows lux and another thing for cameras Aug 10 13:53:46 chem|st, router is WPA .. Aug 10 13:54:11 wpa what personal PSK? Aug 10 13:54:27 i have an Android phone now and there's a light meter app for that, too, but unfortunately the light sensor i have seems to only give out pretty coarse reading (maybe ten or so possible values) Aug 10 13:54:38 DocScrutinizer, maemo hotspot is installed, but i havent run it yet .. autodisconnect was installed but now removed Aug 10 13:54:42 chem|st, yeap , personal Aug 10 13:55:33 KageSenshi: hotspot comes with power kernel. I'd not be surprised you encounter problems with connectivity from that Aug 10 13:55:43 2nd Aug 10 13:56:05 3rd! Aug 10 13:56:45 4th Aug 10 13:56:50 what's this about? Aug 10 13:57:00 5th Aug 10 13:57:01 damn Aug 10 13:57:03 KageSenshi: on deinstalling please RTFM first, otherwise prepare to flash Aug 10 13:57:19 ~debian KageSenshi Aug 10 13:57:19 hurm ... i got this issue since before installing powerkernel .. i just installed power kernel to see if theres improvement, but theres still the same ... maemo hotspot doesnt pull power kernel though Aug 10 13:57:20 * infobot tells KageSenshi to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Aug 10 13:58:34 KageSenshi: duh? it doesn't? newest thing I hear Aug 10 13:58:37 Is there a way to measure power consumption on N900? I mean to see how many milliamps the device uses at certain moment? Aug 10 13:58:46 i gonna try to reflash first and see if can reproduce .. Aug 10 13:58:59 yes, it's called bq27200.sh Aug 10 13:59:08 DocScrutinizer, yep it doesnt .. Aug 10 13:59:17 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/mobilehotspot/0.3.3/ Aug 10 13:59:29 Depends: Aug 10 13:59:30 kernel-feature-netfilter, Aug 10 13:59:35 ops, sorry for multiline ;< Aug 10 13:59:42 np Aug 10 14:00:11 and, do we see kernel-feature-netfilter on default kernel? Aug 10 14:00:12 weird .. powerkernel was not installed when i installed maemo hotspot .. Aug 10 14:00:25 lol, sure. You already got it Aug 10 14:00:35 DocScrutinizer, i install it later on Aug 10 14:00:45 hmm :-/ Aug 10 14:01:08 maybe all that might explain the issues you see Aug 10 14:01:57 probably Aug 10 14:03:32 Af'noon, all Aug 10 14:04:18 * KageSenshi goes to look for the flashing tool Aug 10 14:04:36 afternoon Jaffa Aug 10 14:05:00 afaik mobilehotspot has kernel-power as a dep Aug 10 14:05:36 if it does, then something odd happened that doesnt pull kernel-power with it .. Aug 10 14:06:02 impossible Aug 10 14:06:37 >.< Aug 10 14:06:47 anyway i gonna try reflashing .. Aug 10 14:07:31 Jaffa: hi Aug 10 14:09:42 MohammadAG: well the powerkoernl could have shown conflicts e.g with fcam, and you could install mobilehotspot by ignoring the depends. something along that line Aug 10 14:10:05 DocScrutinizer51, not through HAMM Aug 10 14:10:07 -M Aug 10 14:10:29 sure not via HAM :-) Aug 10 14:10:49 except in redpill mode maybe Aug 10 14:11:12 not a lot know how to enable it post 51-1 Aug 10 14:11:28 hurm .. i did have fcam installed before .. Aug 10 14:13:37 did someone make fcam work with the power kernel? Aug 10 14:13:52 hmm Aug 10 14:14:06 kerio, yes, just recompile the modules/use the t-tan compiled ones Aug 10 14:14:18 is there any way to set variables for an app when launching it? Aug 10 14:14:29 what variables? Aug 10 14:14:36 conflicts with kernel-power when i was trying to kernel-power .. (which during that time, maemohotspot is already installed) Aug 10 14:15:01 kerio, env Aug 10 14:15:40 the QA is kinda retarded Aug 10 14:15:43 VAR=value application Aug 10 14:16:00 kernel-power can cause HW damage, perl takes some / space Aug 10 14:16:11 kernel-power is in extras, frozen-bubble isn't Aug 10 14:16:15 luke-jr, ping Aug 10 14:16:23 LANG=C trout MohammadAG Aug 10 14:16:33 * Corsac trouts Aug 10 14:16:34 kernel-power is epic Aug 10 14:17:00 yeah, when you take out overclock.diff Aug 10 14:17:09 you can just not enable it Aug 10 14:17:20 I know Aug 10 14:17:26 * DocScrutinizer51 opens up a can of kernel-power Aug 10 14:20:17 hello Aug 10 14:20:53 building something in the nokia qt sdk for maemo , i get a error about dh_installdirs failed Aug 10 14:20:56 any idea ? Aug 10 14:21:03 i can't find anything at the forum Aug 10 14:22:59 Termana: poing Aug 10 14:23:29 luke-jr, when you activated the context in ofono (for gprs) what did you do after that? Aug 10 14:23:58 hey everyone Aug 10 14:24:00 hmm, booting while connected via usb seems to constantly fail Aug 10 14:24:05 Termana: Doing a dance of joy I guess ;) Aug 10 14:24:06 Because once i do that, it gets ip address and dns server etc. but I can't ping anything etc. Aug 10 14:24:17 well, *re*booting Aug 10 14:25:42 Termana: configured the interface Aug 10 14:26:39 kerio, err, VAR= in the .desktop file? never seen that Aug 10 14:26:41 can anyone suggest a really good theme? Aug 10 14:26:43 something blue Aug 10 14:26:47 Marina? Aug 10 14:26:49 and 'tidy' Aug 10 14:27:19 i think i tried Marina before Aug 10 14:27:24 Termana: set default route? Aug 10 14:27:40 LANG=C trout MohammadAG Aug 10 14:28:04 luke-jr, so I should do something like: ifconfig gprs0 ip.add.re.ss net ..etc. ? or? Aug 10 14:28:15 netmask* Aug 10 14:28:16 yeah Aug 10 14:28:35 use GetProperties on the context to see what the IP should be Aug 10 14:29:04 anything else I should need to do after that? Aug 10 14:29:29 add a route if you want that Aug 10 14:29:37 ip route prepend default dev gprs0 Aug 10 14:30:14 yay fcam works Aug 10 14:30:17 it does look good Aug 10 14:30:35 righto thanks. brb Aug 10 14:30:36 speakign of which, I don't have *any* cam working in Gentoo ;( Aug 10 14:30:52 how do i disable lfocus' proximity crap? Aug 10 14:30:58 actually, i'll just uninstall it Aug 10 14:31:28 fcamera <3 Aug 10 14:31:47 i tried the blue sky theme Aug 10 14:31:49 buggy :\ Aug 10 14:32:46 Marina theme Aug 10 14:32:53 k Aug 10 14:38:24 ok i like this theme :) Aug 10 14:38:33 i wish there was an easy way of editing my home screens Aug 10 14:38:38 so I could neatly line things up in a grid Aug 10 14:38:59 argh Aug 10 14:39:07 .service files are retarded! Aug 10 14:39:10 lol Aug 10 14:40:29 i wish there was a "Reboot" option when i press the power button Aug 10 14:40:50 PhonicUK: try gridsnap Aug 10 14:41:19 PhonicUK, thereis one Aug 10 14:41:21 there isd Aug 10 14:41:26 DAMN SPACE BUTTON Aug 10 14:41:27 anyways Aug 10 14:41:37 there are two ways to add a restart button Aug 10 14:41:45 * luke-jr spaces over MohammadAG Aug 10 14:41:47 the sudden restart, just take out the comments Aug 10 14:42:11 the second one, a method by qwerty12, passes sudo reboot Aug 10 14:42:52 PhonicUK, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=476970#post476970 Aug 10 14:43:45 cool Aug 10 14:44:07 DocScrutinizer51, where is GridSnap? Aug 10 14:44:26 PhonicUK: e.g in tweakr Aug 10 14:44:31 ah Aug 10 14:45:23 i love how almost every N900 is unique Aug 10 14:45:33 but almost all other 'brands' of smartphone look the same way Aug 10 14:46:07 yeah, like iPhone homescreens Aug 10 14:46:08 anyways Aug 10 15:01:49 * realitygaps argh its not in the . config files either! must be a missing package, but which?? Aug 10 15:38:55 crap how do i stop xsnow ? Aug 10 15:39:16 :) Aug 10 15:39:18 * lcukn900 cannot remember and has dentist poking brains out Aug 10 15:39:30 :( Aug 10 15:39:40 I hate when people poke needles in your brain Aug 10 15:40:00 indeed i cannot feel most of my head Aug 10 15:40:22 last time i was here there was so much needlage my eye was numb Aug 10 15:40:22 lcukn900: try doing reverse to what you did in order to start it Aug 10 15:40:24 killall xsnow Aug 10 15:40:44 xsnow across all desks would be awesome Aug 10 15:40:49 MohammadAG: hey, that kills kittens Aug 10 15:40:51 you need to start it 4 times now Aug 10 15:40:55 speedevil sure Aug 10 15:41:06 thanks moh Aug 10 15:41:34 my god my tongue is so thick i thing its going to explode out of mouth Aug 10 15:44:16 Whatdoes a little * mean on the left corner of a sent SMS? Aug 10 15:44:28 err Aug 10 15:44:34 a trianglewith a ! init Aug 10 15:45:03 click the sms itself Aug 10 15:45:22 I have - it shows methetext of theSMS I sent Aug 10 15:45:42 it should say delivered/pending etc Aug 10 15:46:18 I have no delivered/pending states on any SMSs Aug 10 15:47:23 hmm, weird Aug 10 15:49:57 Hmm - though all of my other SMSs have a blue arrow - I assume inidcating sent. Aug 10 15:53:09 anyway I think the !triangle is "failed to send" Aug 10 15:53:27 what's the sysnode for the fmtx? Aug 10 15:54:30 MohammadAG: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/* Aug 10 15:54:38 thanks :) Aug 10 15:54:42 MohammadAG: apt-get install find-utils Aug 10 15:55:30 hjmm, maybe that's fmrx. Sorry Aug 10 15:57:03 DocScrutinizer, seems to be the tx Aug 10 15:57:04 ty Aug 10 15:57:31 In the N900 the FM radio component is able to act both as a receiver and as a transmitter, right? Aug 10 15:57:39 fuck Aug 10 15:57:43 different chips Aug 10 15:57:52 It's _got_incoming_SMSs_ Aug 10 15:57:57 WTFcan't it send Aug 10 15:58:09 well, at least FMRX requires BT, FMTX doesn' Aug 10 15:58:10 t Aug 10 15:58:16 so yeah, I'd say different chips Aug 10 15:58:34 MohammadAG, yeah I guessed so too, but anyway it has TX capabilities, right? Aug 10 15:58:49 yeah Aug 10 15:58:56 romen: the TX also has RX capabilities, yes Aug 10 15:58:58 The parts are seperate Aug 10 15:59:21 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Receiver http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Transmitter Aug 10 15:59:37 is there any app using the FMTX / do you have any usage scenario? Aug 10 15:59:41 DocScrutinizer, hmm, so there are 2 chips for RX? Aug 10 15:59:45 but the real RX is part of the BT chip and a separate function from SI4113 Aug 10 15:59:50 oh Aug 10 16:00:14 romen: there is a builtin app to turnit on in settings Aug 10 16:00:33 romen: enable FMTX in any audio app prepared for it, e.g media player Aug 10 16:00:35 DocScrutinizer, the second page (transmitter) is empty Aug 10 16:01:24 MohammadAG: the RX part of TX is supposed to be used for detecting unused frequencies Aug 10 16:01:42 MohammadAG: it's not a real FM radio, with audio and all Aug 10 16:01:54 * MohammadAG facepalms Aug 10 16:02:10 MohammadAG: anyway it seems the RX in BT is better siuted for the job Aug 10 16:02:18 so that's two things supported on the hardware level, and not on the SW level Aug 10 16:02:34 tap function in accelerometer, unused freq detection Aug 10 16:03:03 MohammadAG: there's quite some more unused hw features Aug 10 16:03:07 DocScrutinizer, maybe you where referring to http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter Aug 10 16:03:21 romen: I didn't refer to anything Aug 10 16:03:25 DocScrutinizer, hmm? Aug 10 16:03:31 romen: may you are referring to SpeedEvil Aug 10 16:03:45 DocScrutinizer, you are definitely right xD Aug 10 16:05:05 MohammadAG: hm? hm? Aug 10 16:05:13 MohammadAG: there's quite some more unused hw features Aug 10 16:05:16 MohammadAG: so mayn I don't know where to start Aug 10 16:05:19 lol Aug 10 16:05:28 cam? Aug 10 16:05:40 ciao Aug 10 16:07:21 DocScrutinizer, what will the media player do when enabling the FMTX? stream the played audio content? how do you choose which frequency should be used? Aug 10 16:07:24 need apache2 port Aug 10 16:07:51 DocScrutinizer:odd. the 'recently used' bit of my providers billing says it's gone, but not been charged for Aug 10 16:07:53 most audio gets rerouted Aug 10 16:07:57 maybe it's not been picked up yet Aug 10 16:08:09 it's not specific to the media player Aug 10 16:08:15 MohammadAG: let's start with awesome LP5523 LED ind driver chip. It has a comprehensive command set like a real little cpu, and we don't use any of that, like we don't use 2/3 of the available storage for patterns Aug 10 16:08:19 romen: it's in the settings app Aug 10 16:08:48 fmtx_client us a backend Aug 10 16:08:51 is* Aug 10 16:10:13 SpeedEvil: err sorry? Aug 10 16:13:38 oops Aug 10 16:16:56 MohammadAG: (lp5523) mce could send a couple of I2C writes to ONE group fader register, to do that kbd LED ramping up/down. So we wouldn't waste a whole engine3 and could get real 3color effects on indicator LED Aug 10 16:17:33 DocScrutinizer, hmm, time for jrmce? Aug 10 16:17:54 (probably the amount of data to push over I2C is even less than the program for engine3 to do the fading) Aug 10 16:18:11 seriously Aug 10 16:18:23 a daemon can do everything mce can do Aug 10 16:18:26 seriously NO specs for mce :-( Aug 10 16:18:28 well, mce is a daemon Aug 10 16:18:46 what does mce do anyways? Aug 10 16:18:49 handle lights? can be done Aug 10 16:18:56 no source no api doc no nuttin Aug 10 16:19:07 when keyboard slides, read light sensor, adjust lights accordingly Aug 10 16:19:40 lock switch -> turn off screen, go into standby mode Aug 10 16:19:54 there's a friggin lot that's handled in mce, and every single bit of that would be nice to gain control over it. Alas... see above Aug 10 16:20:04 power button -> spawn systemui menu Aug 10 16:20:13 power button twice -> standby Aug 10 16:20:22 all of those can be handled by DBus afaik Aug 10 16:21:09 none of that can be handled by whatever replacement as long as we need mce around for doing the things we not considered when designing the replacement Aug 10 16:21:49 clear case of screwed by Nokia closed source policy Aug 10 16:22:29 what do we need mce for? Aug 10 16:22:39 if a replacement is coded, stop mce, then purge it Aug 10 16:22:50 kill -9 mce and you'll learn :-P Aug 10 16:22:51 we can worry about the lifeguard later Aug 10 16:23:00 stop mce, same case as bme Aug 10 16:23:08 mce is probably being replaced by some sensorfw stuff and something in meego Aug 10 16:23:09 :P Aug 10 16:23:10 lifeguard is our least problem Aug 10 16:23:11 I kept mce off for quite some time Aug 10 16:23:21 MohammadAG: that's kinda stupid if you want to power save.. Aug 10 16:23:35 Stskeeps, true, it was for testing purposes Aug 10 16:24:34 MohammadAG: and quite a number of things (like screen dimming) don't come back even on start mce Aug 10 16:24:47 they do Aug 10 16:24:53 hmm, actually, sec Aug 10 16:25:25 right Aug 10 16:25:26 damn Aug 10 16:25:27 mce is really hard to replace in maemo - much harder than bme Aug 10 16:27:04 who wants a modified fmtx module? Aug 10 16:27:33 all regions have the same limit, default power level set to 118 instead of 88 Aug 10 16:27:37 MohammadAG: to do what? Aug 10 16:27:38 not tested of course Aug 10 16:27:38 err, for what purpose? Aug 10 16:27:49 oh, jacekowski did that Aug 10 16:27:56 with fmtxd Aug 10 16:28:05 not with the kernel module Aug 10 16:28:12 and wasn't that for headphones only? Aug 10 16:28:37 toss it over :-D Aug 10 16:28:48 apt-get reinstall tooth-filling Aug 10 16:28:56 apt-get install pain Aug 10 16:31:32 lcuk, E: Invalid operation reinstall Aug 10 16:31:46 thats why I had to install pain afterwards Aug 10 16:31:57 dependency? Aug 10 16:31:57 it worked after that Aug 10 16:32:26 nahh she had already dpkg -i novocaine Aug 10 16:33:23 lol Aug 10 16:35:14 hmm Aug 10 16:35:20 how can I force remove a module? Aug 10 16:36:06 MohammadAG, I hope you are talking maemo and not still on about my mouth Aug 10 16:36:12 LOL Aug 10 16:36:45 * MohammadAG rmmods lcuk's painkiller.ko Aug 10 16:37:23 there is a bit of lag in my mouth at the mo, I won't notice lack of that module for a couple of hours yet Aug 10 16:38:00 moo lcuk Aug 10 16:38:04 ehlo all Aug 10 16:38:09 \o Aug 10 16:38:30 RST38h, i hear Moscow has had a little cooler weather yesterday/today Aug 10 16:39:17 Mohammad: BTW, sorry to ask a stupid question but how do I check the current fmtx level? is it in /sys somewhere? Aug 10 16:39:33 lcuk: heavy smog last night, but so far so good Aug 10 16:39:48 lcuk: And 34oC is still about 10oC higher than it should be Aug 10 16:39:54 bah Aug 10 16:40:02 it's not the module setting power level Aug 10 16:40:09 I guess it is fmtxd after all Aug 10 16:40:11 RST38h, sec Aug 10 16:40:31 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level Aug 10 16:40:57 thanks =) Aug 10 16:41:42 RST38h, kinetic scrolling in xchat, NAO :p Aug 10 16:41:56 hmm Aug 10 16:42:10 I remember when I joined #maemo someone was planning mockups for a new xchat UI Aug 10 16:42:39 Mohammad: the xchat main view is a custom gtk+ widget. good luck modifying that. Aug 10 16:43:09 RST38h, decustomize it Aug 10 16:43:24 And yes, you can mock things up as much as you want, it does not make them happen Aug 10 16:43:30 lol I knwo Aug 10 16:43:32 know* Aug 10 16:43:37 I was just wondering who it was Aug 10 16:43:46 iirc the author wrote the custom widget because gtk had no decent ones to offer Aug 10 16:44:00 RST38h, xchat also need to make UI space to toggle between scroll and select Aug 10 16:44:01 ShadowJK: Isn't there Qt-based XChat nowadays? Aug 10 16:44:08 ShadowJK, thats not unheard of Aug 10 16:44:12 scrolling is hard Aug 10 16:44:20 lcuk: Not needed, scrolling is done with the scrollbar anyway Aug 10 16:44:21 tbh Aug 10 16:44:33 I think maemo's gtk should've edited so normal scrollbars would be autotranslated to kinetic ones Aug 10 16:44:43 just like what was done to symbian Aug 10 16:44:45 RST38h, I mean if the kinetic were put in Aug 10 16:44:51 * RST38h sighs at the mention of Maemo gtk+ Aug 10 16:44:54 when they transitioned to kinetic scrolling, old apps supported it Aug 10 16:44:58 MohammadAG, its more difficult than that Aug 10 16:45:03 did someone make a frequency scanner? Aug 10 16:45:05 lcuk: yea, but it is not even clear how to put kinetic into this beast =( Aug 10 16:45:06 even microsoft have problems Aug 10 16:45:25 symbian didn't have problems :) Aug 10 16:45:44 symbian started on devices Aug 10 16:45:50 handhelds Aug 10 16:46:31 RST38h, high explosives should add kinetic energy Aug 10 16:47:00 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_VGA_camera#Software, I have PR1.2, still with the front camera I can see turned on lamps, everything else is black... Aug 10 16:47:00 I'm pretty sure the only symbian app I ever write wont get kinetic scrolling if run on newest symbian ;p Aug 10 16:48:05 kerio: it's called FM radio ;-D Aug 10 16:48:33 heh Aug 10 16:49:05 idea: n900 communicator - use the fm radio and the fm transmitter to talk with another n900 Aug 10 16:49:59 kerio: been discussed for ~2 dozen times now. Not worth it - range 10m Aug 10 16:50:19 the way I see it, fmtx range is more like 50cm Aug 10 16:50:27 you're even better off using BT Aug 10 16:51:11 well 10m was really really optimistic, so I never had to step back Aug 10 16:51:21 anyways, symbian is quite retarded in a lot of ways Aug 10 16:52:05 kerio, I'd rather have a cross platform BT messenger Aug 10 16:52:28 something I could use to text messages via BT Aug 10 16:52:29 JUST SHOUT Aug 10 16:52:34 over Aug 10 16:52:38 OK Aug 10 16:52:38 over Aug 10 16:52:42 or a SIP peer2peer client over WLAN Aug 10 16:52:47 ad hoc Aug 10 16:52:51 hmm, not useful when you want to tell someone something in private Aug 10 16:52:51 DocScrutinizer, you are meant to say "over" Aug 10 16:52:56 over Aug 10 16:53:03 DocScrutinizer: use jabber link local messaging, over Aug 10 16:53:22 or a SIP peer2peer client over Aug 10 16:53:25 WLAN over Aug 10 16:53:33 can you see something with your N900 front camera? over. Aug 10 16:53:35 over WLAN over? Aug 10 16:53:41 copy that DocScrutinizer Aug 10 16:53:43 over Aug 10 16:53:49 romen: I see a really good looking man, over Aug 10 16:53:50 hold up device and use light signals from other side of a field. over Aug 10 16:54:00 quite good at concerts. over. Aug 10 16:54:15 Corsac, that wouldn't be my case even if the light was ok. over. Aug 10 16:54:36 that should actually be a competition "at a crowded event, pass messages to people at other end" Aug 10 16:54:40 romen: front camera sucks anyway, try the “mirror” application, over Aug 10 16:54:56 oh, over Aug 10 16:55:05 sorry for interruption, over Aug 10 16:55:11 eh? over Aug 10 16:55:25 lol Corsac, no problem. over Aug 10 16:55:28 Corsac, I tried mplayer over /dev/video1, than hoping something would get better I tried even mirror, still everything remains reaaaaaaly dark. over. Aug 10 16:55:31 (welcome to #mhamemo, over) Aug 10 16:55:35 you're sick! and I'm afk - LOL :-D Aug 10 16:55:38 over Aug 10 16:55:44 :D over Aug 10 16:55:54 copy that DocScrutinizer . over. Aug 10 16:56:18 I'm running too, over and out Aug 10 16:56:26 romen: Have you tried holding lit electric bulb in your mouth? Aug 10 16:56:32 copy that, ttyl Corsac, over Aug 10 16:57:01 RST38h, I still miss a power source inside my mouth, not planning to update soon. over. Aug 10 16:57:05 alpha foxtrott kilo - over and out Aug 10 16:57:45 Unit alpha, attack unit Delta (alias DocScrutinizer), over Aug 10 17:01:05 convo's over? over Aug 10 17:01:46 http://gizmodo.com/5609164/the-google-report-card Aug 10 17:06:50 And yes, yessss: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/08/how-star-trek-artists-imagined-the-ipad-23-years-ago.ars Aug 10 17:07:49 any HTTP servers for the N900? Aug 10 17:08:39 python -m SimpleHTTPServer Aug 10 17:09:49 Funny, how StarTrek gfx designer basically discovered the basics of computer UIs Aug 10 17:10:07 Same basics we know today through different means Aug 10 17:12:36 Hi Aug 10 17:16:52 RST38h: not to forget cell phones ;) Aug 10 17:17:42 RST38h: also imagined that you could only have one doc on them at once. Aug 10 17:17:55 RST38h: Though I daresay that's coming in the next revision of the ipad. Aug 10 17:20:31 X-Fade, there appears to be something funny happening to albanc's upload of monorail. its updated only part of the required package set (the source gives 2 .debs) monorail and monorail-dbg any chance you can just have a peek and see, I can't suss why its not working since everything appears to be in order *accidental #meego crossposting aside* Aug 10 17:21:28 I just uploaded it again, but this time using the web interface instead of dput Aug 10 17:22:04 reasonable enough albanc Aug 10 17:23:13 and I received another mail from "Maemo Extras Builder", identical to the previous one, except the timestamps Aug 10 17:27:11 lcuk, X-Fade : the source package is available but still only the -dbg is displayed: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/monorail/0.4/ Aug 10 17:28:09 albanc, hopefully it may just appear, I am goingto go and suck on my tea for a bit and hope I don't bite my tongue off Aug 10 17:31:27 anyone got a solution for ICQ connection on maemo5? Aug 10 17:31:33 something not broken, that is Aug 10 17:32:54 aep: install pidgin libraries 2.6.1 Aug 10 17:33:20 yeah well, preferable something that works with contacts Aug 10 17:33:23 ie, integrated Aug 10 17:33:27 the pidgin gui is a pain Aug 10 17:33:42 pidgin libraries 2.6.1 + telepathy-haze plugin Aug 10 17:33:54 telepathy-haze icq = "Network Error" Aug 10 17:33:56 albanc, any plans for other IM protocol support on monorail Aug 10 17:33:59 mainly, skype Aug 10 17:34:02 ever since i got this thing. Aug 10 17:34:29 * RST38h shrugs: I have told you to install piding libes 2.6.1 Aug 10 17:34:35 pidgin libs, sorry Aug 10 17:35:43 uhmk, but those dont add another account plugin, do they? Aug 10 17:35:52 other then the haze one Aug 10 17:35:56 which is broken Aug 10 17:36:31 haze wfm Aug 10 17:37:40 MohammadAG, it does not depends on Monorail but on the telepathy connection manager for skype (telepathy-spirit). I don't know the plans for telepathy-spirit. Aug 10 17:38:01 and haze? Aug 10 17:39:10 MohammadAG, I don't know for haze but you should get the information on #telepathy Aug 10 17:39:32 hmm, didn't know monorail was a non-maemo project Aug 10 17:40:12 it is Aug 10 17:41:01 hm, do jabber transports work with the xmmp plugin? that might solve it Aug 10 17:47:23 aep: if transport can log in automaticaly then yes Aug 10 17:47:27 anybody noticed any problems with this chan got +j recently? Aug 10 17:52:43 DocScrutinizer, no more spam bots? Aug 10 17:52:52 * MohammadAG waits for a shitload of bots to join Aug 10 17:53:05 DocScrutinizer: what does +j do? Aug 10 17:53:05 DocScrutinizer: adds hookers? :) Aug 10 17:53:13 lol Aug 10 17:53:33 join throttle Aug 10 17:56:03 3:20 +f ##overflow Aug 10 17:56:23 iirc Aug 10 17:56:50 Monorail is a maemo project, but it does not implement anything in Jabber, skype, whatever. It is just an UI for file transfers with telepathy. So if a telepathy connection manager for your protocol is added in maemo, Monorail will benefit from it without recompilation. Aug 10 18:03:46 lo all Aug 10 18:06:36 i love the OSK in the marina theme Aug 10 18:06:53 much clearer Aug 10 18:07:03 :) Aug 10 18:07:09 i think it's wazd's Aug 10 18:07:43 cool. theres a much clearer difference between the enter and backspace keys. Aug 10 18:07:45 I'm not sure what's OSK, but thanks :) Aug 10 18:07:56 aaah, the keyboard :) Aug 10 18:08:13 now i just need to find out how to delete words from the dictionary Aug 10 18:08:13 moo wazd Aug 10 18:08:25 PhonicUK, autocomplete editor Aug 10 18:08:31 it's in extras, or one of them Aug 10 18:08:35 RST38h: o/ Looks like we have some quasi-fresh air today :) Aug 10 18:08:50 wazd: yea, windows open, AC on Aug 10 18:10:38 wazd: Seen the article about StarTrek PADD design? Aug 10 18:11:12 RST38h: nope, but I guess I saw the theme Aug 10 18:12:38 RST38h: you can hit me with a link anyway :) Aug 10 18:13:17 wazd: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/08/how-star-trek-artists-imagined-the-ipad-23-years-ago.ars Aug 10 18:16:22 RST38h: I wonder if anyone will dare to make PADD UI for MeeGo tablet, since I was told it's "oh so customizable" :) Aug 10 18:16:39 UI or theme? Aug 10 18:16:39 not just a theme, but with all transitions and interactions Aug 10 18:16:43 theme is easy Aug 10 18:16:44 DocScrutinizer: ping Aug 10 18:16:51 Stskeeps: o/ :) Aug 10 18:16:53 hmm? Aug 10 18:16:59 lo wazd, how's the smoke? Aug 10 18:17:05 wazd: PADD has preciously few transitions (it was a set of plastic overlays after all) Aug 10 18:17:09 Stskeeps: gone for a while :) Aug 10 18:17:19 wazd: but the actual UI would be a feat ;) Aug 10 18:17:33 RST38h: well, it can be refreshed a little :) Aug 10 18:17:46 wazd: we can try simulating it in HTML ;) Aug 10 18:18:44 "amorphous metal alloys to slip into Apple products soon" Aug 10 18:18:57 these journalists are never tired I guess Aug 10 18:19:00 iDildo? Aug 10 18:19:17 or they mean "soon" in universe scale :) Aug 10 18:19:59 RST38h: :D Aug 10 18:20:09 amorphous metal alloys are not news Aug 10 18:20:27 kinda expensive to make though, last time I checked Aug 10 18:20:41 I was amused to see the bit about gorilla glass actually being 50yo Aug 10 18:21:20 Speed: well, the "other" parts have not existed then, like 400+MHz CPUs, LCd screens, and Li batteries :) Aug 10 18:22:06 Well - of course not. Aug 10 18:30:12 rar Aug 10 18:34:13 RST38h: quite right, not that long ago, it was easy for the majority of the weight of a portable thing to be battery Aug 10 18:45:11 Stskeeps: Quim is stepping on your toes -.- Aug 10 18:45:31 luke-jr: quim has the final word Aug 10 18:45:52 why did I waste my time opening a new bug then? Aug 10 18:46:56 bug? Aug 10 18:47:57 link? Aug 10 18:48:02 SpeedEvil: gpsdriver source bug Aug 10 18:52:54 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3833 - not I guess Aug 10 18:52:56 Bug 3833: Request for information to allow hooking into A-GPS location framework Aug 10 18:56:35 * E0x looking for python-xlib package for Fremantle Aug 10 19:03:58 Stskeeps: you fail at marking bug duplicate… Aug 10 19:22:15 bts takes feature requests now? Aug 10 19:29:10 fscking as-daemon Aug 10 19:29:31 it keeps running at 100% cpu about third of the time Aug 10 19:40:44 luke-jr, give bug number, that one SpeedEvil found doesn't look recent Aug 10 19:41:13 …. Aug 10 19:42:49 anyone else experienced a problem after PR1.2 upgrade: some contacts name/picture ain't shown when calling/in logs/in conv views etc.? Aug 10 19:43:07 *when they are calling Aug 10 19:43:33 conv=conversations Aug 10 19:45:23 anybody getting *email* notifications about watched wiki sites been edited? Aug 10 19:48:48 I unsubbed from those in 2008 Aug 10 19:56:28 seems it's duplak anyway. null() Aug 10 19:57:47 rejectlog:2010-08-10 11:35:03 H=(ns2.name2serve.com) [195.95.2.192] F= rejected RCPT : Sender verify failed Aug 10 19:58:26 bah Aug 10 20:05:20 lol Aug 10 20:15:35 Anyone else on maemo4 noticed the internet radio directory has gotten shitloads more stations recently? Aug 10 20:16:12 * ShadowJK finds some real-life stations too that don't have public shoutcast/mp3/sane streams and copies over urls to n900 Aug 10 20:16:14 o.O Aug 10 20:16:33 shadowjk: eh? Aug 10 20:16:44 maemo4? Aug 10 20:16:59 aka diablo? Aug 10 20:17:25 ya Aug 10 20:17:45 * DocScrutinizer wanders over to N810 Aug 10 20:17:46 timeless: well most FM stations only have flash players these days Aug 10 20:18:01 why did this channel become jointhrottled? Aug 10 20:18:16 It stutters, eats powers and drops out :/ Aug 10 20:19:09 moin Aug 10 20:19:20 Maybe it's just my client that fail Aug 10 20:19:38 #maemo [20 ##overflow] [518] Aug 10 20:19:43 er, 512* Aug 10 20:19:52 but now the same channel appeared on N810 meduaplayer with a decent shoutcast http://*nokiamobile*/ url.. I'm guessing nokia must've negotiated for them to put up a non-flash stream :) Aug 10 20:20:20 streaming on edge with Mugen battery lasts almost a work day for me :D Aug 10 20:20:30 half a workday with flash.. Aug 10 20:21:18 FredrIQ: it's been set to +j 3:20 yesterday, for testing if this will give additional protection against spambots Aug 10 20:21:43 what does 3:20 means, 20 clients in 3 secs? Aug 10 20:22:01 3 clients in 20s Aug 10 20:22:34 Ah Aug 10 20:23:20 FredrIQ: you ran into a chan forward to ##overflow? Aug 10 20:24:03 did you? Aug 10 20:24:05 DocScruntizer, i've done it before, but not recently Aug 10 20:24:21 (i.e. not in thos chan) Aug 10 20:24:25 this* Aug 10 20:24:27 k Aug 10 20:24:45 please report if you do, everybody Aug 10 20:24:51 ok Aug 10 20:25:28 on very rare occasions there may be >3 users joining during <20s on coincidence Aug 10 20:25:57 wow, I just saw lightning! I almost forgot how it looks :) Aug 10 20:25:58 Yeah, fully possible Aug 10 20:25:58 Isn't bot used to join in mass? Aug 10 20:25:58 bots* Aug 10 20:26:05 we don't hope to see this happening more frequently than maybe once every few das though Aug 10 20:26:10 days* Aug 10 20:26:12 (like >10 bots in <5 secs) Aug 10 20:26:33 * ShadowJK forgot how nice N810 speakers were Aug 10 20:27:08 well, at least hat's what the +j shall catch Aug 10 20:27:46 * DocScrutinizer missing mediaplayer on N810 :'( Aug 10 20:28:05 I want an N810 :( Aug 10 20:28:20 either there never was any, or it's gone, or I'm stupid Aug 10 20:28:33 xmms2? Aug 10 20:29:07 seem to remeber there was some Aug 10 20:29:10 it's in "My Selection" Aug 10 20:29:26 * DocScrutinizer scratches head Aug 10 20:29:34 prolly not anymore :-/ Aug 10 20:29:52 Map, Skype, Media Player, Images, Help Aug 10 20:30:10 hah, yes Aug 10 20:30:23 so it's been third option :-P Aug 10 20:30:36 :oD Aug 10 20:30:53 /usr/bin/mediaplayer-ui Aug 10 20:30:57 Btw, that thing at the left on Maemo4, is it runnin tasks or some type of "favorite apps"? Aug 10 20:31:03 sampo? Aug 10 20:31:40 tybollt, are you really only just responding now? Aug 10 20:32:39 FredrIQ, default: web menu, app menu, contacts/email/im menu, (running apps), task selector at bottom Aug 10 20:32:58 Ok Aug 10 20:33:08 Germany 1-1000 :-D Aug 10 20:33:12 N8x0 also has fullscreen button which makes any app fullscreen Aug 10 20:33:27 Doesn't that work to get in maemo somehow? Aug 10 20:33:29 and a button to bring up runnig tasks Aug 10 20:33:47 (hardware buttons) Aug 10 20:34:02 Readed on some chinese site (or was it japanese?) a way to install a bunch of things and get fullscreen with shift+enter Aug 10 20:34:10 Ok Aug 10 20:34:14 and a MENU button - my love Aug 10 20:34:29 oh yeah. menu button is awesome Aug 10 20:34:48 I also wish there was a longtap button Aug 10 20:36:00 the N900 needed 3 more buttons tbh Aug 10 20:36:11 send/end, and a menu key, hold for home/task man Aug 10 20:36:18 damn, how shall I decide whether to look for a nice radio station in Germany_1-1000 or in Germany_1001-1247 ? Aug 10 20:36:24 :-P Aug 10 20:36:43 screw the radio Aug 10 20:36:45 last.fm ftw Aug 10 20:36:59 hmm Aug 10 20:37:04 need to continue working onsynaptic Aug 10 20:37:06 on* Aug 10 20:37:44 I saw someone with a bigger cellphone than my N900+mugen today :) Aug 10 20:38:20 It looked ancient. black/gray monochrome lcd Aug 10 20:38:27 lcuk: When you've a 7 day old son to take care I trust you'll have about as good a roundtrip answering as I have right now, mate ;) Aug 10 20:38:42 but it's actually modern.. somewhat noncomercial Aug 10 20:38:44 tybollt, 15 and 8 Aug 10 20:38:57 lcuk: :) then you've ample experience :) Aug 10 20:38:59 ShadowJK: a ti-83 or a freerunner? Aug 10 20:38:59 when you have older one, you learn the first time Aug 10 20:39:22 government issue special model, it can fallback to mesh mode if cellular network dies :) Aug 10 20:39:27 tybollt, anyway, sampo savola == ecoach author == sampppa == http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/ecoach/ Aug 10 20:39:41 lcuk: I know as much Aug 10 20:39:49 someone should make a GUI, or at least some type of console application for playing with existing and new keyb shortcuts Aug 10 20:39:49 shadowjk, hah Aug 10 20:39:51 lcuk: it was the nick I was fishing for, thanks Aug 10 20:39:55 stskeeps: freerunner has color vga doesn't it? Aug 10 20:40:20 lcuk: you know... some of the authors DO in fact hang out here on irc ;) Aug 10 20:40:46 yeah tybollt Aug 10 20:40:53 sampppa does occasionally Aug 10 20:42:29 fair enough, shall try to keep an eye on here if he gets in here Aug 10 21:12:20 hi. reading this in tiny font on n900. Need help: error importing Python modules when I run Python script. Which directory are they in, on N900? Aug 10 21:18:48 p Aug 10 21:21:37 kwtm: look in sys.path Aug 10 21:24:41 good idea. thx kerio Aug 10 21:26:33 epic song in that quit message ^ Aug 10 21:26:44 back to synaptic Aug 10 21:33:39 err Aug 10 21:33:39 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/synaptic_0.62.1maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Aug 10 21:33:49 it compiles fine on scratchbox Aug 10 21:46:53 nite all, sweet dreams Aug 10 22:48:56 LOL i just saw OVI store advert Aug 10 22:48:57 :) Aug 10 22:50:07 on TV? Aug 10 23:17:04 good morning Aug 10 23:20:55 TermanaN900: Word. Aug 10 23:24:12 ~isoffline maemo.org Aug 10 23:24:23 well, you get the idea, even if the infobot doesn't :) Aug 10 23:30:45 aaand its back Aug 11 01:33:23 is there a media/music player on the n900 that can do id3 tag (mp3) editing? Aug 11 01:33:44 fmms is pretty good :) Aug 11 01:34:09 or should i say it works at least Aug 11 01:42:14 ah, mussorgsky can do what i need. Aug 11 01:44:47 and it supports album art grabbing from the net too, cool Aug 11 01:45:47 mussorgsky++ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 11 02:59:57 2010