**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 15 02:59:57 2010
Aug 15 02:59:58 <SpeedEvil> If /home/user/ fails to mount, then you get a stub on the rootfs IIRC
Aug 15 03:00:28 <DocScrutinizer51> khristi80: fine. now do you suggest we all do a rm -rf ~user so we can reproduce your situation and compare?
Aug 15 03:00:43 <khristi80> no ...of course
Aug 15 03:01:24 <khristi80> i know that is odd ....and that's not a solution.....but i thought it might me a hint to solve the prob#
Aug 15 03:01:47 <DocScrutinizer51> then if you refuse to create a somewhat standard system on your device (and document that) I don't see how I can help
Aug 15 03:01:51 <khristi80> i'm not an expert in linux...just a beginner
Aug 15 03:03:50 <DocScrutinizer51> that's why I suggested you pastebin copy of the flashing screen commands and output
Aug 15 03:04:33 <DocScrutinizer51> there might be an indication of something going wrong that you are not aware of
Aug 15 03:06:08 <khristi80> well i will try but when i run the flashing commands it opens in a 2nd window and when the flashing is ended the window is closing and i can't copy&paste
Aug 15 03:07:50 <DocScrutinizer51> mhm, first indication there's something odd
Aug 15 03:08:00 <DocScrutinizer51> this should not happen
Aug 15 03:10:50 <DocScrutinizer51> so  seems we need to scrutinize the steps until flashing is starting, as there' already something not ok until then
Aug 15 03:15:27 <trip0> maybe i'm wrong, but it seems like there's a lot of anti-nokia sentiment on talk.maemo.org
Aug 15 03:15:59 <trip0> and what people don't seem to understand is, nokia is run by people that are answerable to stock holders
Aug 15 03:16:00 <DocScrutinizer51> mhm
Aug 15 03:16:12 <trip0> and stockholders want something that competes with apple and google
Aug 15 03:16:16 <GeneralAntilles> Except these people are also customers.
Aug 15 03:16:16 <trip0> and maemo5 doesn't
Aug 15 03:16:23 <GeneralAntilles> And their opinion counts too.
Aug 15 03:16:27 <trip0> a little
Aug 15 03:16:41 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Aug 15 03:16:43 <trip0> but the stockholders probably want customers who don't even know what a forum is
Aug 15 03:17:02 <rm_you> tmobile doesnt knoiw WTF my phone is so they just can't help me with anything it seems
Aug 15 03:17:03 <trip0> want to target* customers...
Aug 15 03:17:09 <rm_you> calling back to get a different tech
Aug 15 03:17:17 <DocScrutinizer51> well, when khristi80  comes back
Aug 15 03:17:21 <DocScrutinizer51> oops
Aug 15 03:17:28 <DocScrutinizer51> khristi80:
Aug 15 03:17:59 <trip0> i bet most of the community came from the n8xx years
Aug 15 03:18:10 <DocScrutinizer51> your few lines pasted in query before server kicked you for flooding - they look rather outdated
Aug 15 03:19:37 <DocScrutinizer51> flasher2.5.2 and SW version in image: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_MR0 are not the most recent images
Aug 15 03:19:43 <DocScrutinizer51> or tools
Aug 15 03:21:07 <DocScrutinizer51>  Image 'kernel', size 1705 kB   Version 2.6.28-20101501+0m5  I do not know where from that printout is, but it's also outdated
Aug 15 03:21:17 <DocScrutinizer51> afaik
Aug 15 03:23:59 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm 10.2010.19-1 seems ok though
Aug 15 03:24:10 <khristi80> rx-51_2009se_10.2010.19-1_pr_mr0 it's the latest maemo5 global release
Aug 15 03:24:48 <DocScrutinizer51> yep, got fooled by the 2009se part
Aug 15 03:26:20 <khristi80> and the flasher is 3.5 but i don't know why it appears when i'm flashing the image v2.5.2
Aug 15 03:26:58 <DocScrutinizer51> anyway on N900 I got flasher-2.8.2 and on linux desktop I even thought it's 3.x
Aug 15 03:27:29 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm will get disconnected, bbl
Aug 15 03:27:49 <DocScrutinizer> oh, not yet
Aug 15 03:28:17 <khristi80> and i have a frien who had a prob with his nok rebooting all the time and i have used the same image and emmc to flash it and it wak ok after that...his phonw is working well now
Aug 15 03:28:44 <DocScrutinizer> so why is it opening another window while flashing? can you paste the cmdline here please?
Aug 15 03:29:16 <khristi80> first i use flasher-3.
Aug 15 03:29:30 <khristi80> first i use flasher-3.5 -F maemo.bin -f
Aug 15 03:30:02 <khristi80> and then flasher-3.5 -F vanilla.bin -f -R
Aug 15 03:30:27 <khristi80> i have renamed the files after i download them
Aug 15 03:30:42 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, you should flash vanilla first, but whatever, if you do NOT boot in between it doesn't matter
Aug 15 03:31:12 <khristi80> i have done it and like that....vanilla first and then fiasco
Aug 15 03:31:14 <DocScrutinizer> I can't see how those commands are opening a new window that closes immediately after flasher finishes
Aug 15 03:31:33 <khristi80> i'm running win7...
Aug 15 03:31:38 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Aug 15 03:34:13 <DocScrutinizer> so even more we need a proper feedback from flasher about what has actually happened. I don't know about windows, but to me it seemed there should as well not open a new window. These commands, when entered to a "doswindow"  started with admin rights, should run quite normal and print to the doswindow
Aug 15 03:35:15 <DocScrutinizer> iirc it's been something like "click 'execute command', enter 'cmd', press shift-enter"
Aug 15 03:36:50 <DocScrutinizer> but I'll happily hand over to anybody with some real win7 experience, to sort that out. No windows here
Aug 15 03:38:11 <DocScrutinizer> as long as you can't read what flasher is printing for diagnostic output, you don't know if there might be some problems during flashing, like write errors on eMMC
Aug 15 03:39:04 <TermanaN900> DocScrutinizer, i can see how it would pop up windows that immediately close
Aug 15 03:39:20 <TermanaN900> Its Windows, wtf else do you expect?
Aug 15 03:39:33 <DocScrutinizer> TermanaN900: eh?
Aug 15 03:39:54 <TermanaN900> nevermind :P
Aug 15 03:40:03 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Aug 15 03:41:58 <DocScrutinizer> btw, those two commands above look fishy to me anyway. Aren't they supposed to have different parameters for rootfs and eMMC (except the -R which could go away for both)
Aug 15 03:43:45 <khristi80> it's the commands from here https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Aug 15 03:44:00 <DocScrutinizer> nah, nevermind. That's been uBoot flasher that needs partition to flash, as parameter
Aug 15 03:44:10 <DocScrutinizer> not maemo
Aug 15 03:49:11 <khristi80> someone told me that it might be a hardware fault....but i don't think so
Aug 15 03:58:34 <DocScrutinizer51> if it doesn't work after a correct full flash then it must be a hardware fault
Aug 15 03:59:51 <DocScrutinizer51> and for all the quotes from your device it seems there *is* a uSD card inserted. I suggest to remove that, to keep things simple
Aug 15 04:00:07 <khristi80> and i forgot to mention that my computer sees my phone memory
Aug 15 04:00:52 <khristi80> i've reflashed and without sd card and nothing's changed
Aug 15 04:01:00 <DocScrutinizer51> mhm, eMMC or uSD, or even both?
Aug 15 04:01:26 <khristi80> em
Aug 15 04:01:32 <DocScrutinizer51> what means nothing's changed? what exatly is the problem
Aug 15 04:02:20 <khristi80> i mean even if i remove the sd card and i reflash fiasco&emmc i still get memory card corrupted
Aug 15 04:02:42 <khristi80> i have only the 1.88gb for instalable apllications
Aug 15 04:02:46 <DocScrutinizer51> where does that show up?
Aug 15 04:03:05 <khristi80> in settings/memory
Aug 15 04:03:26 <DocScrutinizer51> with uSD removed before booting?
Aug 15 04:03:32 <khristi80> and when i turn the device on it appears on screen device storage format unsupported#
Aug 15 04:04:31 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, we need the output of flasher
Aug 15 04:04:51 <khristi80> yeah...but i can't get it
Aug 15 04:05:59 <DocScrutinizer51> I neve heard about that problem
Aug 15 04:06:19 <khristi80> it's strange that if i run now(with memory card corrupted)in xterm rm -rf /home/user and then reboot ...after the phone reboots the phone is working properly....i mean the memory shows up
Aug 15 04:06:38 <DocScrutinizer51> so - as mentioned above - try to sort that out
Aug 15 04:07:11 <khristi80> how?
Aug 15 04:07:48 * DocScrutinizer51 sighs and turns away. Whoever told you to delete user home, please ask him to provide further help
Aug 15 04:12:33 <psycho_oreos> is it just me or is chinook's sources stuffed?
Aug 15 04:34:08 <DangerMaus> hey docscrutinizer its there one comprehensive list of pkgs yet? or rather what is in Dev? with a short discription if not obvious?
Aug 15 04:39:22 <ieatlint> ok, c++ q: "typedef enum { VALUE_A, VALUE_B, VALUE_C } valTypes; valTypes types = VALUE_A; types |= VALUE_C;" ... why does the last statement give me a "invalid conversion from 'int' to 'valTypes'" ?
Aug 15 04:40:05 <ieatlint> coming mostly from C where that kind of statement is good, enum is essentially an int
Aug 15 04:40:25 <ieatlint> but when assigning a value from the enum to the enum... wtf..
Aug 15 04:41:11 <DocScrutinizer> enum | enum = int ?
Aug 15 04:42:09 <ieatlint> well, i'm doing enum = enum | enum
Aug 15 04:42:18 * ieatlint smashes something
Aug 15 04:42:43 <DocScrutinizer> enum = enum | enum - that doesn't make sense to me anyway
Aug 15 04:43:45 <DocScrutinizer> however, enum | enum is most likely an int, and for sure not the int representing a valid value of enum type
Aug 15 04:44:01 <ieatlint> i'm using it for flags
Aug 15 04:44:31 <ieatlint> hmm.. in C++ the enum must hold a predefined value?
Aug 15 04:45:01 <DocScrutinizer> enum is a special int, with "0, 1, 2, 3..." replaced by "bla, fasl, burp, xyz, ..."
Aug 15 04:45:08 <ieatlint> yes
Aug 15 04:45:20 <DocScrutinizer> and restricted in valid values to the number of enum
Aug 15 04:45:43 <ieatlint> so i did typedef enum { unknown, eep, blah = 1<<5 };
Aug 15 04:46:00 <ieatlint> then i want to do type = eep; and set the flag blah
Aug 15 04:46:05 <DocScrutinizer> so VALUE_B | VALUE_C is 1 | 2 = 3
Aug 15 04:46:06 <ieatlint> so type = eep | blah;
Aug 15 04:46:07 <ieatlint> for instance
Aug 15 04:46:23 <DangerMaus> grrr forgot charger running a lappie with realy long battery to charge phone dont have charger for that either now gotta fig how to use this a modem for that
Aug 15 04:46:51 <ieatlint> so yeah, c++ requires that the enum only contain a pre-set value... c allows me to set values that are undefined
Aug 15 04:46:58 <ieatlint> and then test with (type & blah)
Aug 15 04:47:15 <DocScrutinizer> quite obviously 3 isn't a valid value for typedef enum { VALUE_A, VALUE_B, VALUE_C } valTypes
Aug 15 04:47:51 <ieatlint> ok, so i need to just set types... ok, whatever, it won't ruin my tests
Aug 15 04:48:15 <DocScrutinizer> and as that doesn't make sense at all for type enum, the result of enum | enum is an int
Aug 15 04:48:48 <ieatlint> i'm used to enum supporting int as an assignment is the issue
Aug 15 04:48:54 <ieatlint> instead of just enum
Aug 15 04:49:36 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, that's raping the type paradigma
Aug 15 04:50:46 <DocScrutinizer> you probably want #define VALUE_A  0; #define value_b 1; int types;
Aug 15 04:51:03 <DocScrutinizer> or use a set ;-)
Aug 15 04:51:10 <ieatlint> yeah, i think i do... the enum is causing unnecessary headache
Aug 15 04:51:40 <ieatlint> setting the dummy types didn't fix it... it seems comparing enums at all in c++ causes an int
Aug 15 04:51:44 <DocScrutinizer> enum is an enumeration, not a quantity of flags
Aug 15 04:51:46 <ieatlint> so either i come up with some cast, or it just use
Aug 15 04:51:48 <ieatlint> #define
Aug 15 04:51:59 <ieatlint> bah, it works in c :P
Aug 15 04:52:36 <DocScrutinizer> it also works in assembler :-P
Aug 15 04:53:34 <ieatlint> damn high[er] level languages
Aug 15 08:35:35 <lcuk> morning \o
Aug 15 08:37:54 <Pillum> my psx doesnt work with psx4m :(
Aug 15 08:38:26 <TermanaN900> good morning lcuk
Aug 15 08:38:50 <TermanaN900> must be a weekend, everywhere is quiet
Aug 15 08:38:59 <korhojoa> I don't understand why people keep calling the ps1 the psx, when a psx is a dvr & ps2 aio device
Aug 15 08:39:26 <lcuk> TermanaN900, indeed, I am only awake because tracy took eldest out
Aug 15 08:39:45 <kerio> I don't understand why people keep talking about ps2 as a console if it's a mouse/keyboard connector
Aug 15 08:40:22 <lcuk> i dont understand how people can write cames in postscript
Aug 15 08:40:35 <Pillum> it is a mouse/keyboard connector
Aug 15 08:40:42 <kerio> aah ya beat meh
Aug 15 08:41:15 <Pillum> and the first playstation was called psx ;)
Aug 15 08:41:38 <Pillum> playstation experimental
Aug 15 08:42:32 <kerio> the playstation is a snes addon!
Aug 15 08:43:11 <Pillum> was supposed to be an addon
Aug 15 08:43:33 <Pillum> but that doesn't help me with my problem that my emulator cant play any psx (:P) games
Aug 15 08:45:11 <psycho_oreos> blame sory
Aug 15 08:46:17 <Pillum> infobot: can you talk?
Aug 15 08:46:34 <Pillum> hello infobot
Aug 15 08:47:01 <psycho_oreos> s/hello/hi/
Aug 15 08:47:07 <Pillum> hi infobot
Aug 15 08:47:13 <psycho_oreos> s/sory/sony/
Aug 15 08:47:13 <infobot> psycho_oreos meant: blame sony
Aug 15 08:47:39 <Pillum> that infobot is dumb:     Pillum    i like you
Aug 15 08:47:40 <Pillum>     infobot    You like you?
Aug 15 08:48:51 <Pillum> infobot	p*nis is, like, the DESTROYER of worlds
Aug 15 08:50:50 <Pillum> s/infobot/dumbbot
Aug 15 08:51:50 <Pillum> s/infobot/dumbbot/
Aug 15 08:51:50 <infobot> Pillum meant: s/dumbbot/dumbbot
Aug 15 08:52:05 <Pillum> I is No
Aug 15 08:52:14 <Pillum> What is I?
Aug 15 08:52:38 <Pillum> poink is Grey
Aug 15 08:52:43 <Pillum> poink is also a silly word
Aug 15 08:52:48 <Pillum> What is poink?
Aug 15 08:53:01 <Pillum>     no, infobot, x is wugga wugga.
Aug 15 08:53:05 <Pillum> no, infobot, x is wugga wugga.
Aug 15 08:53:09 <Pillum> What is x?
Aug 15 08:53:16 <Pillum>     infobot, tell fimmtiu about no web
Aug 15 08:53:49 <Pillum> infobot, tell kerio about football
Aug 15 08:54:07 <Pillum> infobot, tell Pillum about no web
Aug 15 08:54:23 <Pillum> meego++
Aug 15 08:54:30 <Pillum> karma for meego
Aug 15 08:54:34 <Pillum> meego++
Aug 15 08:54:40 <Pillum> status
Aug 15 08:55:05 <lcuk> poor infobot
Aug 15 08:55:38 <Pillum> weather
Aug 15 08:56:08 <Pillum> x is at http://www.xxx.com
Aug 15 08:56:14 <Pillum> where can i find x?
Aug 15 08:56:40 <Pillum> doesn't work :(
Aug 15 08:57:41 <Pillum> infobot: what's up?
Aug 15 08:57:42 <infobot> Up is the direction away from the central point of gravity.
Aug 15 08:57:53 <Pillum> infobot: meego++
Aug 15 08:57:56 <Pillum> infobot: weather
Aug 15 08:58:02 <Pillum> dumb bot is <REPLY>stupid human
Aug 15 08:58:04 <Pillum> infobot: dumb bot is <REPLY>stupid human
Aug 15 08:58:05 <infobot> ...but dumb bot is already something else...
Aug 15 08:58:16 <Pillum> dumb bot
Aug 15 08:58:23 <Pillum> What is dumb bot?
Aug 15 08:58:33 <Pillum> infobot: What is dumb bot?
Aug 15 08:58:34 <infobot> stupid human
Aug 15 08:58:43 <Pillum> infobot: dumb bot
Aug 15 08:58:44 <infobot> stupid human
Aug 15 08:58:48 <Pillum> oh noes
Aug 15 08:59:57 <Pillum> infobot: I like you is <REPLY>I hate you.
Aug 15 08:59:58 <infobot> You like you is <REPLY>I hate you.?
Aug 15 09:00:11 <Pillum> infobot: I like you
Aug 15 09:00:12 <infobot> You like you?
Aug 15 09:00:25 <Pillum> infobot: I like you is <REPLY>I hate you
Aug 15 09:00:26 <infobot> You like you is <REPLY>I hate you?
Aug 15 09:00:34 <Pillum> infobot: Ilikeyou is <REPLY>Ihateyou
Aug 15 09:00:35 <infobot> Pillum: okay
Aug 15 09:00:50 <Pillum> infobot: whydoyouhateme is <REPLY>causeyouregay
Aug 15 09:00:51 <infobot> okay, Pillum
Aug 15 09:01:25 <Pillum> infobot: youaregay is <REPLY>imashemale
Aug 15 09:01:26 <infobot> okay, Pillum
Aug 15 09:01:32 <Pillum> infobot: ilikeyou
Aug 15 09:01:33 <infobot> Ihateyou
Aug 15 09:01:39 <Pillum> infobot: whydoyouhateme
Aug 15 09:01:40 <infobot> causeyouregay
Aug 15 09:01:47 <Pillum> infobot: youaregay
Aug 15 09:01:48 <infobot> imashemale
Aug 15 09:01:54 <Pillum> im bored xD
Aug 15 09:02:01 <alterego> Obviously ...
Aug 15 09:02:16 <alterego> Would you mind not spamming the channel?
Aug 15 09:02:21 <Pillum> ok
Aug 15 09:02:32 <ham5> yes please this is very serious business
Aug 15 09:03:09 <lcuk> not only that, pushing too many new facts into infobot pushes out the good stuff :P
Aug 15 09:03:18 <alterego> Heh
Aug 15 09:03:38 <alterego> lcuk: how're your buttons? :)
Aug 15 09:04:26 <lcuk> alterego, didn't play, decided to try to get the makefile running happily on desktop linux
Aug 15 09:04:53 <lcuk> so net result, seeing calculator running on 32" big screen
Aug 15 09:04:58 <lcuk> and everything else
Aug 15 09:05:34 <alterego> But the solar panel will be less fun on desktop :P
Aug 15 09:06:04 <lcuk> indeed, its not the same covering a solar panel with little mouse pointer
Aug 15 09:06:25 * lcuk dislikes not touchable desktops
Aug 15 09:06:39 <lcuk> I thought you know, the touchscreen laptops
Aug 15 09:06:43 <alterego> I've refined the button component a bit and am now working on a dialog message box thing.
Aug 15 09:06:50 <lcuk> they never get used as touchscreen on windows at least
Aug 15 09:06:58 <lcuk> because theres nothing geared for it
Aug 15 09:07:03 <alterego> Yeah
Aug 15 09:07:12 <lcuk> if something as simple as the close button
Aug 15 09:07:21 <lcuk> were at the bottom of the capacitive laptop screen
Aug 15 09:07:32 <lcuk> then it could be used like an extra row of keys
Aug 15 09:07:43 <lcuk> but instead you have to move arm to top right atm
Aug 15 09:07:46 <lcuk> so annoying
Aug 15 09:11:49 <alterego> I suppose the xterm on maemo is a good example of that.
Aug 15 09:12:06 <alterego> The bottom row is indeed pretty much a row of keys :)
Aug 15 09:13:51 <Pillum> http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/9995/original/helloseriousbusiness3am.jpg?1250727051
Aug 15 09:14:58 <lcuk> alterego, indeed
Aug 15 09:15:37 <lcuk> but task switching from the top corners make gorillas happy
Aug 15 09:17:40 <lcuk> alterego, how would you open a new dialog using only qml
Aug 15 09:18:21 <lcuk> supposing I had a menu screen with a set of buttons to open new screens
Aug 15 09:18:24 <alterego> Well, I'd do it in JavaScript
Aug 15 09:18:36 <alterego> I'll let you know when I've done it.
Aug 15 09:18:41 <lcuk> hah
Aug 15 09:18:44 <alterego> http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/imaging/Screenshot-20100815-101449.png
Aug 15 09:19:08 <lcuk> nice
Aug 15 09:19:36 * lcuk retires to bed with laptop
Aug 15 09:20:55 <alterego> You kinky minx, I'm in bed with my N900 at the moment (and hung over gf)
Aug 15 09:21:15 <alterego> Might get my laptop hilst she's still subdued and do some coding.
Aug 15 09:21:56 <lcuk> heh nahh tracy is at alton towers, jake has the other laptop watching thomas atm
Aug 15 09:22:05 <lcuk> and he looks so comfy I might as well do same
Aug 15 09:24:08 <lcuk> http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/08/14/funny-pictures-wonts-haz/ :D
Aug 15 09:24:15 <lcuk> my cats would be like that
Aug 15 09:25:18 <lcuk> alterego, what happens when you press those buttons, do the colors change/look indented etc?
Aug 15 09:27:36 <lcuk> morning VDVsx
Aug 15 09:27:48 <lcuk> how is bluemaemo/meego going?
Aug 15 09:29:22 <VDVsx> lcuk, morning, not going, besides work and party time have other stuff that is sucking all my time :(
Aug 15 09:30:58 <lcuk> perhaps organising and documenting its progression and laying out the puzzle pieces on the table would be good and then it can be made by whoever is able to put a piece in place for you
Aug 15 09:31:31 <lcuk> "oh hi, I made you some potential layouts"
Aug 15 09:31:48 <alterego> they change colour at the moment. It's all pretty customizable. I was thinkinh of doing a 3D z movement effect.
Aug 15 09:31:50 <lcuk> "I found out how to do the connection stuff in qt bluetooth" etc ;)
Aug 15 09:32:03 <lcuk> alterego, simple > complex
Aug 15 09:32:58 <alterego> The button "overlay" fades in and out on screen activity now too :)
Aug 15 09:35:51 <lcuk> alterego, so you have rotation only after that button press?
Aug 15 09:36:05 * lcuk finds dynamic rotation of photos frustrating sometimes
Aug 15 09:36:33 <alterego> Yeah, not sure what I want to do with rotation
Aug 15 09:36:51 <alterego> I might add a slider and entry for full 360 rotation
Aug 15 09:36:59 <alterego> rather than 90 degree incrementas.
Aug 15 09:37:35 <lcuk> i like the option for phone of land/port/auto
Aug 15 09:38:25 <alterego> Oh yeah, that's part of my Qt app framework, handled seperately from the QML
Aug 15 09:39:00 <lcuk> so you have to move outside qml often?
Aug 15 09:41:40 <lcuk> VDVsx, so are you hungover this morning?
Aug 15 09:41:56 <ham5> hungover at 6am?
Aug 15 09:41:58 <ham5> good one
Aug 15 09:42:23 * lcuk often wakes up earlier after drinking with horrid HO
Aug 15 09:42:26 <ham5> nother timezione nm
Aug 15 09:42:42 <lcuk> and ham5 morning after is when a HO hits you isn't it
Aug 15 09:42:48 <lcuk> when else would you have one?
Aug 15 09:43:09 <VDVsx> lcuk, I'm fine, good night of sleep cures almost all kinds of hangovers :D
Aug 15 09:43:24 <lcuk> theres more than one type o_O
Aug 15 09:43:45 <lcuk> how cold does it get at night VDVsx - i know its warm in the daytime there
Aug 15 09:43:47 <VDVsx> lcuk, yes, depends on what causes you the hangover,ol
Aug 15 09:43:53 <lcuk> but does the briskness return?
Aug 15 09:44:17 <VDVsx> lcuk, not cold, friday as 23-25 around 4 in the morning
Aug 15 09:44:39 <lcuk> and what are you doing awake at 4 in the morning :p
Aug 15 09:45:18 <VDVsx> well, :D
Aug 15 09:45:23 <lcuk> haha
Aug 15 09:45:45 <lcuk> gah
Aug 15 09:45:54 <lcuk> i need more coffee but its miles away
Aug 15 09:46:06 <lcuk> and i cannot bribe eldest to making me one
Aug 15 09:46:35 <alterego> lcuk: yeah, I'll be relying a fair amount on C++ code I think
Aug 15 09:50:15 <lcuk> alterego, hmm are there visual designers for qml ?
Aug 15 09:52:47 <lcuk> ooo http://www.asciimation.co.nz/bb/2010/08/14/brass-wristlet-google-maps-navigator-watch
Aug 15 09:53:33 <VDVsx> lcuk, yes, qt creator
Aug 15 09:53:55 <VDVsx> lcuk, http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/01/27/upcoming-qtcreator-support-for-qml-or-what-is-bauhaus/
Aug 15 09:56:57 <lcuk> VDVsx, cool
Aug 15 09:57:43 <lcuk> alterego, so does visual editing work as well then, because what I have seen a lot of is still text editor based layouts (nothing wrong in that it is the most efficient way of c&p manipulation)
Aug 15 10:28:55 <pigeon> hmm, the tracker thing sure is weird...
Aug 15 10:30:37 <crashanddie> lcuk: you wouldn't happen to know a pyqt opengl example app?
Aug 15 10:30:43 <pigeon> now the image viewer decides not to show any photos/images at all.
Aug 15 10:34:46 <alterego> lcuk: what do you mean by visual editing? :)
Aug 15 10:47:28 <pigeon> hmm, it seems the tracker has completely ignored my mmc card... now image viewer shows no photos... media player shows no songs/videos...
Aug 15 10:48:19 <pigeon> and tracker-processes -r + reboot didn't fix it...
Aug 15 10:48:36 <BluesLee> is there an easy way to check whether bluetooth is activated or not?
Aug 15 10:48:53 <ShadowJK> the icon?
Aug 15 10:49:08 <jacekowski> pigeon: wait
Aug 15 10:49:12 <jacekowski> pigeon: it will find them
Aug 15 10:49:19 <jacekowski> pigeon: after couple minutes
Aug 15 10:49:22 <jacekowski> maybe hours
Aug 15 10:49:36 <pigeon> i tried rm .local/share/tracker and .cache/tracker too...
Aug 15 10:49:39 <pigeon> jacekowski: hmm
Aug 15 10:50:00 <pigeon> the file manager shows them ok
Aug 15 10:52:59 <MohammadAG51> ~trackerreset
Aug 15 10:53:01 <infobot> well, trackerreset is "tracker-processes --hard-reset" in Terminal
Aug 15 10:53:15 <pigeon> yeah, that's the same as -r
Aug 15 10:53:47 <pigeon> done that like 5 times today...
Aug 15 10:53:54 <MohammadAG51> indeed, do it, reopen media player to reindex
Aug 15 10:54:01 <MohammadAG51> or photos app
Aug 15 10:54:05 <MohammadAG51> photos app works better
Aug 15 10:54:15 <pigeon> yeah, both empty still
Aug 15 10:54:22 <MohammadAG51> redo it
Aug 15 10:55:11 <kerio> tracker reset is apt-get remove tracker
Aug 15 10:55:16 <MohammadAG51> ...
Aug 15 10:55:33 <kerio> fuck tracker, use a file browser
Aug 15 10:55:54 <MohammadAG51> not really good when you have 600+ songs
Aug 15 10:56:07 <kerio> ever heard of directories?
Aug 15 10:56:30 <MohammadAG51> duh, my music is sorted
Aug 15 10:56:37 <MohammadAG51> the file manager's slow
Aug 15 10:56:38 <kerio> $artist/$album/$tracknumber $trackname.$extension
Aug 15 10:57:05 <pigeon> (no images) (no videos) (no songs) :(
Aug 15 10:57:15 <MohammadAG51> wait?
Aug 15 10:57:22 <MohammadAG51> close/reopen media player
Aug 15 10:58:51 <pigeon> after doing tracker-processes --hard-reset, then i start media player, i can see from top trackerd/tracker-indexer is running for a bit.
Aug 15 10:58:59 <pigeon> then still, (no songs) (no videos)
Aug 15 10:59:17 <pigeon> feels like it's ignoring my mmc
Aug 15 11:03:03 <pigeon> i set the camera to save to internal memory, took a new photo, and it showed up in the image viewer, if i set to save to mmc, it doesn't.
Aug 15 11:03:11 <pigeon> even though the file is there
Aug 15 11:11:45 <pigeon> hmm... ah
Aug 15 11:11:48 <pigeon> i'm guessing...
Aug 15 11:12:00 <pigeon> # Pause indexer when disk space is <= this value
Aug 15 11:12:00 <pigeon> # (0->100, value is in % of $HOME file system, -1=disable pausing)
Aug 15 11:12:01 <pigeon> LowDiskSpaceLimit=1
Aug 15 11:12:14 <pigeon> my /home is 99% full...
Aug 15 11:17:30 <alterego> I shuld probably learn vi properly.
Aug 15 11:17:37 <alterego> Or install emacs
Aug 15 11:17:49 <MohammadAG51> nano ftw
Aug 15 11:18:14 <alterego> meh
Aug 15 11:18:38 <pigeon> butterfly, damn it!
Aug 15 11:18:41 <alterego> wastes too much screen space :P
Aug 15 11:19:09 <pigeon> (http://xkcd.com/378/)
Aug 15 11:19:45 <EdLin> learn vi on a SysVr2 system running a terminal emulator that spews garbage every time you try using arrow keys in insert mode. Then you'll learn vi.
Aug 15 11:20:15 <EdLin> kids these days with their vim and nano.....
Aug 15 11:20:18 <alterego> Damnit, sym key has stopped working
Aug 15 11:21:25 <alterego> I suppose it's time I booted the laptop
Aug 15 11:21:38 <alterego> Quicker coding anyway :)
Aug 15 11:21:49 <ieatlint> EdLin: just go for "vim -C" for some nostalgia there
Aug 15 11:22:30 <EdLin> ieatlint: nah, just tried that in OS X, it doesn't have ^H every time you press backspace.
Aug 15 11:22:40 <ieatlint> hmmm, yeah, wait, -C isn't right
Aug 15 11:22:46 <ieatlint> there is a "classic" mode or something
Aug 15 11:22:54 <ieatlint> where it doesn't allow control chars
Aug 15 11:23:03 <pigeon> there! tracker is indexing again...
Aug 15 11:25:03 <warhead> hi
Aug 15 11:25:07 <EdLin> hi
Aug 15 11:25:47 <warhead> Im happy new user of nokia n900
Aug 15 11:25:56 <steinex> :)
Aug 15 11:26:07 <EdLin> I'm a n810 user, hoping to upgrade to an n900 some day. :)
Aug 15 11:26:28 <ieatlint> looks like the closest you can get vim to vi is to run ":set compatible"
Aug 15 11:26:32 <warhead> cool phone
Aug 15 11:26:41 <ieatlint> isn't as mean as vi, but it does prevent the arrow keys at least
Aug 15 11:27:27 <EdLin> ieatlint: yeah, still doesn't do ^H and all of the other stuff.
Aug 15 11:27:44 <warhead> for now all works perfect
Aug 15 11:28:09 <ieatlint> i agree though, i love people who have only ever used vim, then end up on some archiac or very stripped down system with just vi and are extremely confused
Aug 15 11:28:17 <EdLin> ieatlint: my vi skills have probably softened up since I started using vim all the time though.
Aug 15 11:28:39 <ieatlint> yeah, vim is awesome
Aug 15 11:29:05 <EdLin> ieatlint: yeah, like people used to bash who wind up in an old Solaris system with a choice of sh and ksh (the latter only if they know how to set their shell. :) )
Aug 15 11:29:17 <koala_man> ieatlint: I especially love when those same people say they use "vi", since they don't realize the huge difference
Aug 15 11:30:12 <ieatlint> koala_man: well, in fairness, vim has replaced vi such that it really isn't incorrect to say that
Aug 15 11:30:23 <EdLin> oh yeah, and a choice of /usr/uch/csh - but that'd *really* confuse them.
Aug 15 11:30:28 <ieatlint> and anyone who ends up in an old solaris system is crying for far more reasons than just having sh
Aug 15 11:30:28 <warhead> gtg
Aug 15 11:30:43 <EdLin> ieatlint: only on Linux. On a SysV system that's locked down, you won't get vim.
Aug 15 11:30:47 <ieatlint> especially if they have one of the god awful keyboards..
Aug 15 11:31:11 <EdLin> true
Aug 15 11:31:16 <ieatlint> yeah, well, you just need to know hjkl, and that's 90% of it
Aug 15 11:31:25 <koala_man> vi was written by bill joy in the seventies. vim was not.
Aug 15 11:31:41 <ieatlint> things evolve
Aug 15 11:31:43 <EdLin> ucb*
Aug 15 11:32:04 <koala_man> vim can be invoked as "vi" for compatibility, but doesn't make it vi
Aug 15 11:32:42 <ieatlint> geeks never have a shortage of pedantry...
Aug 15 11:32:46 <ieatlint> myself included :)
Aug 15 11:33:17 <EdLin> koala_man: I don't mind using vim, it's just that it doesn't teach you really what to do if you're using vi without it. Half the point to knowing vi is the fact that it's been on nearly every system since Berkeley userland tools entered SysV.
Aug 15 11:34:03 <EdLin> so if you're on a system that isn't able to add your choice of editor, you know what to do anyway.
Aug 15 11:34:55 <EdLin> vi and bourne shell are part of the lingua franca of Unix, if you don't know them, and are stuck on a strange Unix system, you're in trouble.
Aug 15 11:35:46 <koala_man> I'm just saying that vim is fantastic, but you should know you're using vim and not vi. otherwise it's incorrect and disrespectful to the vim authors
Aug 15 11:36:08 <EdLin> koala_man: they won't know if you don't tell them. ;-)
Aug 15 11:36:22 <koala_man> vim tells them.
Aug 15 11:36:25 <EdLin> lol
Aug 15 11:37:07 <ieatlint> vim also tells me to donate to eritrea...
Aug 15 11:37:27 <EdLin> Uganda
Aug 15 11:37:39 <koala_man> mine doesn't, never noticed it change
Aug 15 11:37:42 <ieatlint> meh, one of them countries
Aug 15 11:37:55 <koala_man> they're all the same
Aug 15 11:38:11 <ieatlint> isn't africa a country? :P
Aug 15 11:38:26 <koala_man> the south is at least
Aug 15 11:38:32 <EdLin> yeah, it's the northern part of South Africa
Aug 15 11:38:34 <MohammadAG51> lol
Aug 15 11:38:55 <ieatlint> wrong, the correct answer is: no, countries have a government
Aug 15 11:39:32 <EdLin> you mean they don't have governments there? I'd always suspected....
Aug 15 11:40:30 <EdLin> I mean, last time I read National Geographic, it didn't look like they had any governments there.
Aug 15 11:41:14 <koala_man> they do so have governments. hundreds of them, one for every few square kilometers
Aug 15 11:42:13 <EdLin> seriously, I wonder if Africa is going to end up being the next frontier for smartphones. Nokia might have the right idea in actually designing certain S40 handsets for sub-Saharan Africa and other 3rd world locations where cell phones are more common than electricity or wired internet.
Aug 15 11:42:30 <koala_man> how do they charge them?
Aug 15 11:42:38 <EdLin> koala_man: believe it or not, bicycle.
Aug 15 11:43:07 <koala_man> awesome
Aug 15 11:43:12 <EdLin> koala_man: that's why the handsets I mentioned have such a long battery life, 2 weeks or more.
Aug 15 11:43:20 <ShadowJK> The low-end s40 phones have awesome battery life
Aug 15 11:43:30 <ShadowJK> yeah, 2-3 weeks :)
Aug 15 11:43:45 <koala_man> wow, nokia has a bicycle charger kit. I had no idea
Aug 15 11:43:56 <EdLin> koala_man: yep
Aug 15 11:44:02 <ShadowJK> and the 2mm charge system looks freaking weird on paper, but it's actually pretty efficient
Aug 15 11:44:13 <ShadowJK> s/pretty/very/
Aug 15 11:44:14 <infobot> ShadowJK meant: and the 2mm charge system looks freaking weird on paper, but it's actually very efficient
Aug 15 11:44:43 <koala_man> how so?
Aug 15 11:45:45 <EdLin> koala_man: efficient enough for bicycle and solar charging to be practical. 'nuff said.
Aug 15 11:46:03 <ShadowJK> it's able to use a much wider range of supply voltage than microusb
Aug 15 11:46:04 <ShadowJK> So you don't need to pedal at the exact correct speed ;-)
Aug 15 11:46:38 <koala_man> ah
Aug 15 11:48:06 <EdLin> I actually thought of getting a sim card with a $50 Nokia phone, and saving up for an n900.... Instead I went with a contract and an android phone. I belong here though, I still have an n810. :-)
Aug 15 11:48:56 <EdLin> wish I hadn't gone with the contract, that was penny wise and pound foolish.
Aug 15 11:49:35 <EdLin> the $50 nokia phone is the same one they use in Africa...
Aug 15 11:49:46 <EdLin> tho they sell it for less there
Aug 15 11:51:06 <thopiekar> hi maemo-users
Aug 15 11:52:07 <thopiekar> is there a folder called /usr/lib/python linked with usr/lib/python[version] on your devices?
Aug 15 11:53:27 <ieatlint> no
Aug 15 11:53:38 <ieatlint> /usr/lib/python2.5 only
Aug 15 11:54:25 <EdLin> ieatlint: does OS2008 use 2.5? Let me boot it up and check...
Aug 15 11:54:56 <ieatlint> ah, yeah, i'm speaking of maemo 5 pr 1.2 on the n900
Aug 15 11:57:19 <EdLin> 2.5 here too
Aug 15 11:57:58 <EdLin> though I assume an n800 unupgraded or the older nokia n7something tablet use something older.
Aug 15 12:04:54 <obcecado> hello
Aug 15 12:05:17 <obcecado> is there anyway to sync rss reader with google reader  ?
Aug 15 12:05:52 <haltdef> I just use grr
Aug 15 12:07:15 <obcecado> thanks for the hint :-]
Aug 15 12:18:53 <thopiekar> hmm thanks for the info!
Aug 15 12:19:09 <thopiekar> EdLin , ieatlint ^
Aug 15 12:19:48 <EdLin> np
Aug 15 12:20:32 <EdLin> thopiekar: a platform-independant way would be to run which `python` to find your interpreter.
Aug 15 12:20:47 <EdLin> well, it'd work on all Unix at least. ;-)
Aug 15 12:22:16 <EdLin> oops, no backtics. sorry
Aug 15 12:23:06 <thopiekar> I'm working on packaging files for Canola.. there are differences between these needed for maemo and desktop pc's.. I want to get them together..
Aug 15 12:23:39 <EdLin> which won't work in all Unix either, actually, looking at the manpage...
Aug 15 12:23:55 <EdLin> so much for portability. ;-)
Aug 15 12:24:48 <EdLin> thopiekar: isn't there a way in python to find out what version you're running, and then use that to guess the /usr/lib/python{$version}?
Aug 15 12:25:17 <thopiekar> don'T worry I figured it out :P
Aug 15 12:25:27 <EdLin> k
Aug 15 12:26:26 <EdLin> thopiekar: I'm more knowledgable in Perl and Tcl than Python...
Aug 15 12:27:43 <thopiekar> thats actually how I compare between the systems.. building under maemo works in chroots with sb and sb is providing a own python compiler as the default one.. so when the version of python is 2.3 the rules file knows that it is running under a maemo builder and replaces the control file with the specific control-maemo file.. which differences with control-desktop in the package section
Aug 15 12:28:08 <thopiekar> EdLin: thanks anyway!
Aug 15 12:28:11 <thopiekar> ;)
Aug 15 12:28:33 <EdLin> I should learn python one of these days.
Aug 15 12:28:44 <crashanddie> can you speak English?
Aug 15 12:28:55 <EdLin> crashanddie: yeah, I know the basics are easy. :)
Aug 15 12:29:02 <crashanddie> then you know the basics of python :P
Aug 15 12:29:51 <EdLin> crashanddie: if you've ever seen non-trivial python code in the wild, you know that's not enough. ;-)
Aug 15 12:30:06 <crashanddie> sure it is
Aug 15 12:30:09 <EdLin> crashanddie: though you'd understand more of it than Perl.
Aug 15 12:30:21 <crashanddie> or C++ templates
Aug 15 12:31:13 * thopiekar likes programming in Python!
Aug 15 12:31:32 <kerio> unix = man
Aug 15 12:31:45 <kerio> if you have man, you don't need to know
Aug 15 12:31:52 <crashanddie> template <class foo> foo GetBigFoo(foo a, foo b) { return a > b ? a : b);
Aug 15 12:32:28 <kerio> crashanddie: max(a, b)
Aug 15 12:32:38 <crashanddie> kerio: only works on ints :)
Aug 15 12:32:58 <crashanddie> kerio: whereas you could also overload the > operator to handle the template
Aug 15 12:33:00 <EdLin> crashanddie++
Aug 15 12:33:13 <kerio> list(sorted((a, b)))[1]
Aug 15 12:33:25 <EdLin> in more ways than one. ;-)
Aug 15 12:33:54 <crashanddie> I mean, I can now officially call myself a C++ developer by trade, but I wouldn't say I really enjoy the dark corners of C++ in the least
Aug 15 12:34:15 <crashanddie> Python really is a "fun" language, allowing for quick prototypes and uber-fun development
Aug 15 12:34:49 <kerio> python is awesome <3
Aug 15 12:36:37 <kerio> decorators are a beautiful concept, generators and iterators are incredibly powerful
Aug 15 12:59:46 <Termana> Hmm, I was wondering why my hands stink. And then I realised, they smell like the flea powder I helped apply earlier
Aug 15 12:59:52 <Termana> :P
Aug 15 13:00:16 <Termana> Most exciting thing that will happen all night in here
Aug 15 13:00:18 <Termana> :D
Aug 15 13:01:09 <SpeedEvil> I recently had a comedy accident.
Aug 15 13:01:38 <SpeedEvil> Take footage of any number of films where the protagonist slips on ball bearings.
Aug 15 13:01:50 <SpeedEvil> replace the ball bearings with deep-frozen blackcurrants.
Aug 15 13:14:18 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, were any berries injured in the making of that magical moment?
Aug 15 13:14:36 <SpeedEvil> no.
Aug 15 13:14:42 <SpeedEvil> Being deep frozen and all.
Aug 15 13:48:55 <alterego> lcuk: yeah, the beta Qt creator for Qt 4.7 has a QML designer integrated in it.
Aug 15 13:49:09 <alterego> I do everything by hand at the moment, on the device.
Aug 15 13:49:20 <alterego> With gedit editing on my laptop via sshfs
Aug 15 13:50:10 <lcuk> alterego, how does that work when you need the c++ elements tying in with it
Aug 15 13:51:16 <alterego> Not sure, I've not really used it.
Aug 15 13:52:25 <lcuk> alterego, ahh
Aug 15 13:53:13 <lcuk> heh http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l71szdoFT11qzpwi0o1_400.jpg
Aug 15 13:56:19 <alterego> Heh, very MeeGo
Aug 15 13:57:54 <SpeedEvil> Kirk = nokia, Spock=intel, Redshirt=community?
Aug 15 13:58:02 <alterego> Heh
Aug 15 13:59:55 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, you are implying therefore that community is in the role of Scottie
Aug 15 14:02:51 <lcuk> alterego, and re meego, I thought same too
Aug 15 14:06:03 * MohammadAG found a fix for compiz
Aug 15 14:06:10 <MohammadAG> while true; do compiz --replace; done
Aug 15 14:06:16 <MohammadAG> whenever it crashes, it starts again
Aug 15 14:06:16 <MohammadAG> xD
Aug 15 14:06:43 <kerio> MohammadAG: compiz on n900?
Aug 15 14:06:43 <kerio> :o
Aug 15 14:07:14 <MohammadAG> LOL no
Aug 15 14:07:16 <MohammadAG> craptop
Aug 15 14:07:18 <MohammadAG> lap*
Aug 15 14:07:21 <kerio> i see
Aug 15 14:07:27 <kerio> boring
Aug 15 14:07:29 <kerio> XD
Aug 15 14:07:48 <kerio> how does maemo's dashboard interface work?
Aug 15 14:07:52 <kerio> screenshots of every application?
Aug 15 14:07:55 <MohammadAG> magic
Aug 15 14:07:56 <kerio> i saw them moving
Aug 15 14:07:58 <MohammadAG> no, it's live
Aug 15 14:08:18 <MohammadAG> see hildon-desktop's code
Aug 15 14:15:36 <alterego> I wonder how hard it would be to write a pure javascript qml interpreter
Aug 15 14:15:47 <DocScrutinizer> pillum o.O :-(
Aug 15 14:16:17 <DocScrutinizer> why isn't anybody helping to stop such nonsense?
Aug 15 14:16:30 <alterego> What are you talking about?
Aug 15 14:16:47 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-08-15 10:52:43] <Pillum>     no, infobot, x is wugga wugga.
Aug 15 14:16:56 <jacekowski> ~x
Aug 15 14:17:04 <jacekowski> x is wugga wugga
Aug 15 14:17:05 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-08-15 10:52:50] <Pillum> What is x?
Aug 15 14:17:10 <jacekowski> ~x is wugga wugga
Aug 15 14:17:19 <jacekowski> hmm, infobot is broken
Aug 15 14:18:29 <kerio> infobot: x is lol
Aug 15 14:18:35 <DocScrutinizer> ~ping
Aug 15 14:18:36 <infobot> ~pong
Aug 15 14:18:39 <kerio> ~x
Aug 15 14:18:47 <jacekowski> ~DocScrutinizer
Aug 15 14:18:48 <infobot> it has been said that docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko
Aug 15 14:18:51 <jacekowski> ~jacekowski
Aug 15 14:18:52 <infobot> i heard jacekowski is a cat from red dwarf
Aug 15 14:18:56 <kerio> ~kerio
Aug 15 14:18:56 <DocScrutinizer> ~factinfo x
Aug 15 14:18:56 <infobot> x -- last modified at Tue Jul 29 00:05:50 2003 by dondelelcaro!~don@archimedes.urmc.rochester.edu; it has been requested 17 times, last by Pillum, 5h 22m 36s ago.
Aug 15 14:19:01 <kerio> :(
Aug 15 14:19:06 <kerio> infobot, kerio is awesome
Aug 15 14:19:08 <infobot> kerio: okay
Aug 15 14:19:09 <jacekowski> ~MohammadAG
Aug 15 14:19:10 <kerio> ~kerio
Aug 15 14:19:10 <infobot> well, mohammadag is special
Aug 15 14:19:11 <infobot> well, kerio is awesome
Aug 15 14:19:13 <DocScrutinizer> ~forget x
Aug 15 14:19:14 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: i forgot x
Aug 15 14:19:15 <kerio> \o/
Aug 15 14:19:21 <kerio> ~forget kerio
Aug 15 14:19:21 <infobot> i forgot kerio, kerio
Aug 15 14:19:26 <kerio> heh
Aug 15 14:19:52 <kerio> infobot: who are you
Aug 15 14:19:55 <infobot> kerio: what are you talking about?
Aug 15 14:19:58 <MohammadAG> ~tybollt
Aug 15 14:19:59 <infobot> somebody said tybollt was some bloody idiot
Aug 15 14:20:03 <kerio> ~infobot
Aug 15 14:20:04 <infobot> kerio, i love abuse, feed me!, or whack, yo
Aug 15 14:20:04 <DocScrutinizer> now please don't let us continue that BS pillum was spamming the chan with
Aug 15 14:20:12 <MohammadAG> indeed
Aug 15 14:20:15 <kerio> ~botsnack
Aug 15 14:20:16 <MohammadAG> infobot, gtfo
Aug 15 14:20:16 <infobot> kerio: aw, gee
Aug 15 14:20:17 <infobot> Sorry sir, I won't bother you anymore.
Aug 15 14:20:26 <kerio> poor infobot :(
Aug 15 14:20:33 <kerio> he was just trying to help
Aug 15 14:20:38 <kerio> he's just a bit gullible
Aug 15 14:21:35 <lcuk> its all fun and games until someone loses an arm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFDo1aOIQ_c
Aug 15 14:22:30 * DocScrutinizer has a whole tablet of armV5
Aug 15 14:23:27 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, n8x0?
Aug 15 14:23:34 <kerio> heh
Aug 15 14:23:44 <DocScrutinizer> S3C2410
Aug 15 14:23:59 <lcuk> so which os sits on it
Aug 15 14:24:10 <DocScrutinizer> or were those S3C2440 ?
Aug 15 14:24:19 <DocScrutinizer> it's a SoC
Aug 15 14:24:46 <DocScrutinizer> 50 SoCs
Aug 15 14:25:19 * alterego sighs .. Another boring post by abill_uk
Aug 15 14:25:33 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: beowulf cluster!
Aug 15 14:25:50 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, RAM missing
Aug 15 14:26:12 <DocScrutinizer> and soldering that micro-BGA chips really is no fun
Aug 15 14:26:40 <lcuk> how hot does an oven have to be?
Aug 15 14:26:59 <lcuk> and have you got enough hairclips to make a template holder?
Aug 15 14:27:52 <DocScrutinizer> 240°C ?
Aug 15 14:28:03 <lcuk> gas mark 4! :D
Aug 15 14:28:27 * lcuk cannot remember which stage the solder bath was needed, but I bet you could improvise
Aug 15 14:29:21 <DocScrutinizer> I got ever solder paste, *could* do that :-) If I had a gas oven :-P
Aug 15 14:29:44 <lcuk> microwave it :D
Aug 15 14:29:47 <ShadowJK> electric no good?
Aug 15 14:29:49 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Aug 15 14:29:53 <lcuk> so you have the screens and everything?
Aug 15 14:30:03 <lcuk> or just the chips
Aug 15 14:30:04 <DocScrutinizer> none either, believe or not
Aug 15 14:30:23 <DocScrutinizer> only a palette of chips
Aug 15 14:30:55 <ShadowJK> were you planning on doing something with them?
Aug 15 14:30:56 <DocScrutinizer> got a whole bag of chips, unsorted
Aug 15 14:31:06 <DocScrutinizer> mdern art?
Aug 15 14:32:49 <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/impressions-of-25C3/
Aug 15 14:33:41 <DocScrutinizer> there's one of my arms http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/impressions-of-25C3/impressions-of-25c3/snc00249_jpg.jpeg.html
Aug 15 14:36:15 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: interested?
Aug 15 14:36:33 <ShadowJK> eh?
Aug 15 14:37:04 <DocScrutinizer> in that chips mix, or some arms
Aug 15 14:37:38 <DocScrutinizer> the litter on these photos is maybe 1%
Aug 15 14:38:08 <DocScrutinizer> in volume. In numbers much less, as there are several reels with transistors etc
Aug 15 14:40:00 <ShadowJK> I'm not competent with anything that can't be connected using a PH1 screwdriver :P
Aug 15 14:40:11 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Aug 15 14:42:10 <DocScrutinizer> has anybody (pointer to) chan statistics? is that normal to have 100 less on weekend?
Aug 15 14:44:39 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: solder bath not commonly used nowadays
Aug 15 14:45:00 <alterego> Ah, sunday afternoon trolling ..
Aug 15 14:45:04 <DocScrutinizer> it's been thru-hole ages
Aug 15 14:45:07 <MohammadAG> lol
Aug 15 14:45:29 <jacekowski> thru hole is still used
Aug 15 14:45:30 <DocScrutinizer> uh? me?
Aug 15 14:46:12 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: you can't use bath- soldering though, on mixed technology PCB
Aug 15 14:46:35 <jacekowski> besides, it's not bath
Aug 15 14:46:38 <jacekowski> it's wave
Aug 15 14:46:51 <jacekowski> or we are talking about something else?
Aug 15 14:46:55 <DocScrutinizer> yesyes, wave, or foam or whatever
Aug 15 14:47:54 <DocScrutinizer> usually you got 99% SMT and the few thruhole components are a nuissance and need manual soldering then
Aug 15 14:48:33 <DocScrutinizer> probably one reason why Nokia used SMT USB
Aug 15 14:49:33 <kerio> the n900's usb sucks ._.
Aug 15 14:49:38 <kerio> it broke!
Aug 15 14:52:15 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: you used the T-word, triggering chanop-alert over here. Now please be specific what should be done
Aug 15 14:52:37 <alterego> Erm, nothing.
Aug 15 14:52:50 <alterego> I was commenting about a tmo post.
Aug 15 14:52:55 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Aug 15 14:53:09 <kerio> TMO and trolling are very close
Aug 15 14:53:09 <alterego> Sorreh :P
Aug 15 14:53:10 <kerio> :)
Aug 15 14:53:13 <alterego> Heh
Aug 15 14:53:43 <jacekowski> hmm, where i can get couple MHz square wave
Aug 15 14:54:51 <DocScrutinizer> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astabiler_Multivibrator
Aug 15 14:55:30 <lcuk> hands up who thought that would be a wiki article about sex toys
Aug 15 14:56:00 <muellis3> \o
Aug 15 14:56:10 * alterego claims innocence
Aug 15 14:57:06 <kerio> \o
Aug 15 14:57:21 <korhojoa> lcuk: wut? an Astable Multivibrator. that's awesome, I use them all the time
Aug 15 14:59:10 * lcuk giggles
Aug 15 14:59:48 <Muelli> but it p0rn in a way.. nerdy pr0n though...
Aug 15 15:00:01 <Muelli> sexy schematics...
Aug 15 15:00:07 <Muelli> brb...
Aug 15 15:00:07 <DocScrutinizer> quite cool is a synced ASMV, you can use as divider up to 1:100, and as well has property to provide continuous wave even without syncing signal
Aug 15 15:00:58 <DocScrutinizer> now read that with sexual connotation
Aug 15 15:01:33 <korhojoa> 1:100 is pretty bukkake IMO
Aug 15 15:01:59 <korhojoa> I mean, a continuous wave is freaky enough, but no sync? Come on, those are some real professionals doing that then.
Aug 15 15:02:03 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, i can only think of walking like a cowboy and chafing
Aug 15 15:02:10 <korhojoa> hahahahaha
Aug 15 15:17:47 <Arkenoi> my messaging database was messed up again. it is second time this happening.
Aug 15 15:21:04 <lcuk> Arkenoi, messed up?
Aug 15 15:24:02 <Arkenoi> lcuk: messages seen in the list not matching messages seen inside conversations, undeletable messages, etc
Aug 15 15:24:22 <lcuk> omg, jake is singing Cyndie Lauper - girls just wanna have fun. at the top of his voice
Aug 15 15:24:32 <lcuk> Arkenoi, thats not good
Aug 15 15:24:40 <lcuk> is your clock set correctly?
Aug 15 15:24:41 <oscillik> i had to reflash my N900 the other day simply because it was taking over 8 seconds to go through each level in the E-Mail app
Aug 15 15:25:56 <Arkenoi> lcuk: yep. when it happened before i just checked database for valuable messages, saved those and dropped the rest
Aug 15 15:26:11 <Arkenoi> i filled a bug, but there was no progress on it
Aug 15 15:26:26 <kerio> you filled it with what?
Aug 15 15:26:37 <lcuk> Arkenoi, which bug?
Aug 15 15:27:46 <Arkenoi> kerio: i described symptoms and provided some sql dumps on request
Aug 15 15:28:02 <Arkenoi> it is somewhere on bmo, let me find it..
Aug 15 15:35:02 <Arkenoi> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10614
Aug 15 15:35:03 <povbot> Bug 10614: Message database corruption
Aug 15 15:35:05 <Arkenoi> here it is
Aug 15 15:35:50 <lcuk> holy poop.  vlad got live wallpapers with xscreensaver support \:o/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yUFankdUTc
Aug 15 15:40:55 <oscillik> hmm at around 1:10 that's not a good example of the responsiveness of Maemo someimtes
Aug 15 15:41:16 <oscillik> really does annoy me when the OS registers a tap (because you can feel the vibration) but it doesn't actually do anything
Aug 15 15:41:21 <nid0> there are several points where he has to re-press things several times :\
Aug 15 15:42:03 <oscillik> yeah, it's pretty bad :(
Aug 15 15:42:09 <lcuk> oscillik, nid0 - :) I have confidence we can cleanup all but the worst offenders with some hard core debugging - all the desktop code is open and vlads stuff is too
Aug 15 15:42:18 <lcuk> we should be able to find out with a concerted effort
Aug 15 15:42:41 <lcuk> and in doing so, may help any other areas too :)
Aug 15 15:42:45 <oscillik> that's not the point though...Nokia should've gotten that kind of sluggishness sorted before the phone shipped
Aug 15 15:43:09 <Arkenoi> wimax connection sucks :-(
Aug 15 15:43:20 <lcuk> this sort of stuff wasn't even thought of at first, cmon - some of the time this device gets pushed way beyond on lots of levels
Aug 15 15:43:46 <oscillik> lcuk: i experience the sluggishness on my hanfset and i don't even push it
Aug 15 15:43:52 <oscillik> i'm not running any kind of mods or tweaks
Aug 15 15:43:57 <oscillik> i have very few apps installed
Aug 15 15:43:59 <Arkenoi> wish i could run "providence" and "lament" on n900. actually it might drain my battery damn fast :-)
Aug 15 15:44:06 <nid0> lcuk - I think oscillik was more just generally referring to points in the video where vlad has to, for example, press the task manager icon like 4 times while just flipping between screens
Aug 15 15:44:14 <oscillik> yes exactly
Aug 15 15:44:28 * lcuk does not notice this many things - I use fairly normal system
Aug 15 15:44:58 <nid0> vlad might just have a very light touch tbh as I dont really see it that much, but in the video of his device at least it looks real bad
Aug 15 15:45:03 <toggles_w> lol, define "normal" on the n900
Aug 15 15:45:03 <lcuk> but sometimes it can get ott
Aug 15 15:45:06 <lcuk> yes agreed
Aug 15 15:45:09 <oscillik> lcuk: i just told you that my system is VERY normal, yet i still experience many occasions where the GUI just doesn't respond to taps, even though the OS has registered that i tapped
Aug 15 15:45:15 <lcuk> but I thought that was more with whats trying to be done
Aug 15 15:45:16 <toggles_w> the whole point of it is to hack it
Aug 15 15:45:48 <toggles_w> from the very begining there was "push"
Aug 15 15:45:56 <lcuk> indeed toggles_w
Aug 15 15:46:12 * lcuk can bring machine to its knees
Aug 15 15:46:12 <toggles_w> i think they did good, if only better battery life...
Aug 15 15:46:36 <lcuk> toggles_w, again depends on what you do, I have 2 principle machines here and get wildly different battery life
Aug 15 15:46:50 <lcuk> depending on which is being used for what at different times
Aug 15 15:47:31 <nid0> the thing that baffles me most with battery life is why it's only 1380mAh when a bp-4l battery that's the same physical volume and a like 4 year older design, has a 1500mAh capacity :(
Aug 15 15:48:04 <lcuk> dunno nid0 is it a different composition?
Aug 15 15:48:09 <lcuk> and would they be compatible?
Aug 15 15:48:20 * Arkenoi wonders why there are no *good* chinese replacement batteries
Aug 15 15:48:27 <oscillik> nid0: those batteries are not the same size at all
Aug 15 15:48:32 <DocScrutinizer> Arkenoi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSO4QPE_RQk  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZZ43krhg6k
Aug 15 15:48:32 <lcuk> how do I know battery is dying?
Aug 15 15:48:52 <nid0> no idea, theyre both nokia batteries - they arent interchangable as theyre different dimensions (bp-41 is much longer and thinner) but the volume is practically identical
Aug 15 15:50:06 <oscillik> the BP-4L is thinner by a fraction of a millimetre, if that. i get what you're saying though, i think the BP-4L could've been incorporated into the design. or at least a battery of equal capacity
Aug 15 15:50:41 <oscillik> hmmm BP-4L is Li-Polymer while BL-5J is Li-ion
Aug 15 15:50:58 <nid0> they both weigh the same too :<
Aug 15 15:51:33 <oscillik> and output the same voltage
Aug 15 15:51:39 <nid0> yep
Aug 15 15:56:46 <lcuk> interesting
Aug 15 15:56:55 <lcuk> cyas later anyway, goin for a walk with jake
Aug 15 15:59:26 <DocScrutinizer> oscillik: one some shop.nokia.de page I found a statement N900 us using BP-4L battery, and that battery had been spec'd to have 1200mAh there iirc.
Aug 15 16:00:04 <oscillik> docscrutinizer: that information is incorrect, since the N900 cannot accomodate the BP-4L battery at all
Aug 15 16:00:30 <oscillik> i have both batteries in front of me right now, because i own both an N900 and an E90
Aug 15 16:00:44 <DocScrutinizer> did I say I think it's a correct info?
Aug 15 16:00:58 <oscillik> did i say that you thought it was incorrect?
Aug 15 16:01:14 <oscillik> i merely pointed out that the information is incorrect, not that you thought it had any credence
Aug 15 16:02:38 * DocScrutinizer sighs and ponders about getting coffee without milk, better than no coffee at all
Aug 15 16:04:06 <oscillik> i haven't had coffee for ages
Aug 15 16:04:11 <nid0> same two devices as my batteries are from \o/
Aug 15 16:04:40 <oscillik> nid0: i also have a Psion netBook and Series 5mxPRO here too
Aug 15 16:04:42 <oscillik> ;)
Aug 15 16:14:35 <timeless> sp3000: grumble, my tv died
Aug 15 16:14:57 <Jaffa> Af'noon, all
Aug 15 16:14:58 <timeless> and it died after 6pm, so i can't buy a replacement today
Aug 15 16:15:20 <kerio> timeless: my microusb port died
Aug 15 16:15:30 <kerio> :(
Aug 15 16:18:07 <tybollt> awww
Aug 15 16:19:22 <steinex> question: is it possible to run fremantle on the desktop to develop/test things out? a virtual machine or such?
Aug 15 16:20:48 <korhojoa> steinex: there is the dev platform that runs on ubuntu
Aug 15 16:22:21 <steinex> korhojoa: downloading this now
Aug 15 16:24:23 <kerio> do you guys use wifiswitcher?
Aug 15 16:25:05 <timeless> kerio: =(
Aug 15 16:25:19 <timeless> i suspect it's cheaper to get a replacement usb port than a replacement tv
Aug 15 16:25:24 <timeless> and hopefully your tv is under warranty
Aug 15 16:25:25 <kerio> timeless: i blame the browser, btw
Aug 15 16:25:40 <timeless> mine requires me to figure out what to do w/ my accursed finnish tv setup
Aug 15 16:25:41 <kerio> my tv isn't
Aug 15 16:25:43 <kerio> my n900 is
Aug 15 16:25:45 <kerio> :)
Aug 15 16:25:45 <timeless> :o, why?
Aug 15 16:25:55 <timeless> s/tv/n900/
Aug 15 16:25:59 <korhojoa> timeless: huh?
Aug 15 16:25:59 <kerio> dunno, i feel like blaming you
Aug 15 16:26:11 <timeless> yeah, i obviously meant your n900
Aug 15 16:26:16 <timeless> it's my tv that's dead after all
Aug 15 16:26:23 <steinex> kerio: i think wifiswitcher has not much impact on battery life if you disable auto-discovery of wlan anyway
Aug 15 16:26:36 <steinex> at least thats my impression
Aug 15 16:26:39 <kerio> steinex: i was looking for something like that, yeah
Aug 15 16:26:50 <korhojoa> timeless: what tv?
Aug 15 16:27:23 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: I told you you must not use it anymore, prior to fixing the loose bits. Please don't complain now
Aug 15 16:27:34 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: the loose bits are still there
Aug 15 16:27:37 <kerio> :)
Aug 15 16:27:48 <kerio> and it's not *really* dead
Aug 15 16:27:49 <timeless> tekojo: ping(dns, maemo)
Aug 15 16:27:52 <kerio> just unusable
Aug 15 16:27:58 <timeless> kerio: my tv wasn't turning on anymore
Aug 15 16:28:06 <timeless> for the last couple of months it had issues w/ this "on" concept
Aug 15 16:28:09 <timeless> but now it refuses
Aug 15 16:28:19 <kerio> because you have to push the plug in a unhealthy way
Aug 15 16:28:20 <timeless> korhojoa: calling it a tv is kinda wrong
Aug 15 16:28:45 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: i've been using two batteries + external charger for a couple of days
Aug 15 16:28:47 <kerio> it works fine
Aug 15 16:28:48 <timeless> it's an LG Flatron L193st
Aug 15 16:28:53 <korhojoa> well, timeless non-functioning display device
Aug 15 16:28:55 <kerio> except that my uptime sucks :(
Aug 15 16:29:02 <DocScrutinizer> LG eeew
Aug 15 16:29:16 <korhojoa> timeless: ehn, monitor + tv-combo?
Aug 15 16:29:24 <DocScrutinizer> got a LG as well. Completely borked firmware
Aug 15 16:29:25 <timeless> yeah
Aug 15 16:29:38 <timeless> it's my G5's secondary DVI
Aug 15 16:30:04 <timeless> but i think that the Handan DVR tried very hard to kill it
Aug 15 16:30:47 <korhojoa> haha :D
Aug 15 16:30:48 <kerio> samsung ftfw
Aug 15 16:30:55 <korhojoa> kerio: not always
Aug 15 16:31:08 <kerio> i can speak from my huge experience
Aug 15 16:31:10 <kerio> (1 tv)
Aug 15 16:31:12 <korhojoa> i'd like one of them nice sony tv's. they're just so darn expensive
Aug 15 16:31:16 <timeless> (and obviously succeeded)
Aug 15 16:31:30 <timeless> anyway..
Aug 15 16:31:31 <kerio> timeless: avenge your tv
Aug 15 16:31:34 <timeless> the dvr is crap
Aug 15 16:31:45 <timeless> so i'm in the market (kinda) for a replacement TV solution
Aug 15 16:31:45 <korhojoa> tbh, we've got a panasonic at home, and it works just fine. i've got a samsung here, and a samsung monitor (which has been replaced onsite once, awesome.)
Aug 15 16:31:45 <kerio> get a huge hammer
Aug 15 16:31:54 <timeless> i currently have Elisa Cable
Aug 15 16:31:58 <korhojoa> timeless: samsung's 2333HD
Aug 15 16:31:59 <DocScrutinizer> korhojoa: sony has a damn long record of building TV that *always* have issues
Aug 15 16:32:01 <kerio> timeless: elgato eyetv
Aug 15 16:32:02 <timeless> and the DVR has an incredibly flaky EPG
Aug 15 16:32:18 <timeless> and the dvr is less functional than a VCR from 1988
Aug 15 16:32:19 <korhojoa> DocScrutinizer: well. so don't buy the dodgy ones
Aug 15 16:32:21 <timeless> (or 85?)
Aug 15 16:32:24 <DocScrutinizer> korhojoa: and repair cost more than gold
Aug 15 16:32:35 <kerio> because really, *when* is your computer turned off?
Aug 15 16:32:35 <korhojoa> handan sucks anyways, get a real one (dreambox)
Aug 15 16:32:50 <timeless> anyway
Aug 15 16:32:56 <korhojoa> DocScrutinizer: well then, see to it that it breaks during warranty
Aug 15 16:32:58 <timeless> i want something which can:
Aug 15 16:33:12 <timeless> 1. manage 21 or more programs (handan dies at 20)
Aug 15 16:33:26 <timeless> 2. record a program 5 days a week (bonus points for arbitrary sets of days)
Aug 15 16:33:35 <kerio> timeless: http://www.elgato.com/
Aug 15 16:33:37 <kerio> (not affiliated)
Aug 15 16:33:41 <korhojoa> timeless: dreambox or a mythtv machine.
Aug 15 16:33:56 <timeless> note that my only computers are a p2/450 or a G5
Aug 15 16:34:05 <timeless> and i'm not likely to sacrifice the os on either
Aug 15 16:34:09 <kerio> "Mac TV tuners with EyeTV software. Turn your Macintosh into a television and DVR."
Aug 15 16:34:10 <timeless> so w2k, OSX10.5
Aug 15 16:34:21 <timeless> i think eyetv requires an intel mac these days
Aug 15 16:34:24 <timeless> we tried looking
Aug 15 16:34:29 <kerio> :(
Aug 15 16:34:31 <timeless> and kinda reached that conclusion
Aug 15 16:34:37 <timeless> please correct me
Aug 15 16:35:03 <DocScrutinizer> korhojoa: won't help for two reasons: 1) repair will send back device with *more* bugs/failures rather than fixing the original issue, and 2) warranty doesn't extend on "fixing" some issue. So after 6 months you still have that annoying vertical bar in the picture, but Sony doesn't care anymore
Aug 15 16:35:28 <korhojoa> DocScrutinizer: i see you've been hit with a defective product
Aug 15 16:35:29 <kerio> timeless: "EyeTV 3.4.2 is a universal application, which works on both Power PC and Intel Macs."
Aug 15 16:35:42 <kerio> (last version to support ppc)
Aug 15 16:36:22 <korhojoa> timeless: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreambox
Aug 15 16:36:24 <korhojoa> seriously.
Aug 15 16:38:12 <kerio> it's stuff with less cpu than my sheevaplug :/
Aug 15 16:39:17 <DocScrutinizer> if dreambox is working meanwhile, then it's probably a nice (though expensive) device
Aug 15 16:39:26 <DeMar> hello
Aug 15 16:39:44 <timeless> how expensive?
Aug 15 16:39:59 <DeMar> does anyone know how to fix this:  /usr/bin/nitdroid-installer: line 547: cannot create /home/user/MyDocs/.nitdroid/installer.log: nonexistent directory
Aug 15 16:40:21 <kerio> DeMar: huh... mkdir /home/user/MyDocs/.nitdroid
Aug 15 16:40:41 <timeless> so how would i get a dreambox?
Aug 15 16:40:56 <timeless> i'd want one w/ dvi, and possible scart, although tbh i don't like scart at all
Aug 15 16:41:08 <timeless> and would probably rather get an extra dvd player which has some useful output
Aug 15 16:42:13 <DeMar> thx kerio :*
Aug 15 16:42:54 <kerio> DeMar: tell the #nitdroid guys to add a mkdir -p /home/user/MyDocs/.nitdroid somewhere
Aug 15 16:43:12 <korhojoa> timeless: vaasasta compusat: www.compusat.fi
Aug 15 16:45:10 <kerio> hmm, rsync via ssh uses a different unicode encoding than rsync with a locally-mounted volume :/
Aug 15 16:45:11 <DocScrutinizer> DM8000 : 949.- EUR
Aug 15 16:45:27 <DocScrutinizer> first hit
Aug 15 16:45:37 <kerio> OUCH
Aug 15 16:45:49 <korhojoa> I didn't say they were cheap
Aug 15 16:45:51 <kerio> timeless: transmission + flexget is free
Aug 15 16:54:20 <alterego> Damnit, QML javascript doesn't have setTimeout ..
Aug 15 16:58:47 <timeless> alterego: setTimeout isn't part of JS
Aug 15 16:58:51 <timeless> it's part of DOM
Aug 15 16:59:02 <timeless> which as far as JS is concerned is a Host Object
Aug 15 16:59:35 <timeless> doc: way out of my ballpark
Aug 15 16:59:43 <timeless> i think my ceiling is /probably/ 200EUR
Aug 15 16:59:52 <alterego> timeless: I know, it's just freakin' annoying :P
Aug 15 17:00:42 <DocScrutinizer> so no dream-multimedia HD product for you
Aug 15 17:00:55 <timeless> are they all out of my league?
Aug 15 17:01:03 <timeless> is there something for ~300?
Aug 15 17:01:04 <DocScrutinizer> HD yes
Aug 15 17:01:07 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Aug 15 17:01:15 <DocScrutinizer> DB500HD iirc
Aug 15 17:01:17 <timeless> keep in mind that i'm short one display too
Aug 15 17:01:30 <timeless> unless it can share my mac's primary DVI (cinema)
Aug 15 17:01:52 <DocScrutinizer> Dreambox DM 500 HD 309,00EUR
Aug 15 17:03:03 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/en/dm-500-hd
Aug 15 17:04:12 <jacekowski> i was using skystar DVB card
Aug 15 17:04:25 <jacekowski> to watch paid tv for free
Aug 15 17:04:59 <timeless> legally?
Aug 15 17:05:08 <timeless> i'm not trying to break the law here
Aug 15 17:05:21 <timeless> i'm just trying to get a non lame UX while watching programming
Aug 15 17:05:28 <timeless> mostly i want time shifting that works
Aug 15 17:05:36 <timeless> it's way too much to ask for in this country
Aug 15 17:06:30 <jacekowski> well, not really legally]
Aug 15 17:07:37 <Arkenoi> as-daemon is running at 100% cpu for hours.
Aug 15 17:07:46 <jacekowski> kill it
Aug 15 17:07:52 <timeless> arkenoi: there are instructions for enabling logging
Aug 15 17:07:56 <timeless> read them, follow them
Aug 15 17:08:08 <timeless> contact the person who wants the logs, provide them
Aug 15 17:08:20 <DocScrutinizer> as?
Aug 15 17:08:25 <timeless> activesync
Aug 15 17:08:28 <DocScrutinizer> eew
Aug 15 17:08:37 <jacekowski> not audio scrobbler?
Aug 15 17:08:38 <timeless> hey, it works
Aug 15 17:08:41 <timeless> hrm
Aug 15 17:08:45 <timeless> maybe?
Aug 15 17:09:00 <timeless> scrobblers aren't part of the default install
Aug 15 17:09:11 <timeless> so i have to assume he means the thing i'm thinking of :)
Aug 15 17:09:38 <jacekowski> never assume anything
Aug 15 17:09:46 <timeless> dpkg -l as-daemon-0
Aug 15 17:09:50 <timeless> read the description
Aug 15 17:09:54 <timeless> i'm not wrong
Aug 15 17:11:11 <DocScrutinizer> so as like in "nice to have elementary function of any mobile device that's never going to work flawlessly" :-)
Aug 15 17:11:27 <timeless> hrm
Aug 15 17:12:08 <timeless> it's one of the few components getting work
Aug 15 17:12:12 <timeless> and it has real customers
Aug 15 17:12:21 <timeless> (the vast majority of nokia)
Aug 15 17:12:28 <DocScrutinizer> (minus you're using redmond crap on both your desktop and mobile gadget)
Aug 15 17:12:32 <timeless> and the team working on it cares
Aug 15 17:12:35 <timeless> no
Aug 15 17:12:42 <timeless> ms licensed the tech to google
Aug 15 17:12:51 <timeless> or google reverse engineered it, whichever
Aug 15 17:13:00 <timeless> activesync is supported by a number of platforms
Aug 15 17:13:07 <timeless> it's basically imap done right
Aug 15 17:13:13 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
Aug 15 17:13:22 <jacekowski> shame that mail for exchange sucks
Aug 15 17:13:26 <timeless> imap basically fails miserably
Aug 15 17:13:29 <jacekowski> at least with zimbra
Aug 15 17:13:34 <timeless> the imap protocol is:
Aug 15 17:13:39 <timeless> 1. get the full message index
Aug 15 17:13:43 <timeless> 2. ask the server if it's ok
Aug 15 17:13:46 <korhojoa> timeless: i've got a dm600 if you would like it
Aug 15 17:13:51 <timeless> my mail clients try it:
Aug 15 17:13:58 <timeless> 1. message index please?
Aug 15 17:14:00 <nox-> moin
Aug 15 17:14:02 <timeless> 2. are you ok?
Aug 15 17:14:05 <korhojoa> it's not hd-capable, but it works just fine. if you want, i'll stick in the newest firmware too
Aug 15 17:14:06 <timeless> answer: no, thanks for asking
Aug 15 17:14:14 <timeless> guess what the client does next?
Aug 15 17:14:16 <jacekowski> and zimbra works nicely with everything except n900
Aug 15 17:14:22 <timeless> .... it goes back to step 1
Aug 15 17:14:33 <timeless> jacekowski: did anyone file a bug against zimbra/mfe?
Aug 15 17:14:37 <jacekowski> yes
Aug 15 17:14:42 <VDVsx> timeless, lol, Pop is even worst
Aug 15 17:14:43 <jacekowski> there was couple bugs
Aug 15 17:14:51 <timeless> what did they say?
Aug 15 17:14:58 <jacekowski> that it's broken
Aug 15 17:15:00 <timeless> vdvsx: technically pop shouldn't be
Aug 15 17:15:07 <timeless> jacekowski: which it?
Aug 15 17:15:18 <jacekowski> mail for sexchange
Aug 15 17:15:21 <DocScrutinizer> technically I fail to see the point of imap
Aug 15 17:15:27 <jacekowski> exchange i meant
Aug 15 17:15:34 <jacekowski> well, imapidle
Aug 15 17:15:37 <timeless> jacekowski: meaning the n900 client impl
Aug 15 17:15:41 <jacekowski> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9513
Aug 15 17:15:42 <povbot> Bug 9513: N900 calendar resynchronization with Zimbra v6.0.5 will be broken after editing N900 calendar
Aug 15 17:15:44 <timeless> or the zimbra server side?
Aug 15 17:15:47 <jacekowski> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8191
Aug 15 17:15:48 <povbot> Bug 8191: MfE calendar (re)synchronization with Zimbra (version 5.0.x) fails
Aug 15 17:16:02 <jacekowski> well zimbra works with everything except n900
Aug 15 17:16:36 <timeless> jacekowski: c5= "WFM"
Aug 15 17:16:41 <timeless> if you have a problem, post logs
Aug 15 17:16:43 <timeless> seriously
Aug 15 17:16:53 <timeless> ranting is not appreciated, especially for components which provide decent logging
Aug 15 17:17:03 <jacekowski> c5?
Aug 15 17:17:03 <timeless> MfE is one of the very few which has it
Aug 15 17:17:07 <DocScrutinizer> I mean, I want my mail _just_ downloaded and stored locally. If I were to use a server based always-online mail storage architecture, I'd use sshfs or something
Aug 15 17:17:17 <timeless> and yes, i have turned on logs and provided them
Aug 15 17:17:18 <timeless> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9513#c5
Aug 15 17:17:19 <povbot> Bug 9513: N900 calendar resynchronization with Zimbra v6.0.5 will be broken after editing N900 calendar
Aug 15 17:17:33 <timeless> note the anchor (c5)
Aug 15 17:17:48 <DocScrutinizer> or a web mailer
Aug 15 17:17:52 <jacekowski> and i had another problem with e-mails
Aug 15 17:17:54 <timeless> doc: some of us don't have server access
Aug 15 17:18:01 <jacekowski> that if it was html e-mail there was nothing showing up
Aug 15 17:18:03 <jacekowski> in pr1.2
Aug 15 17:18:06 <timeless> anywa, please please please provide logs
Aug 15 17:18:08 <jacekowski> and i switched to imap
Aug 15 17:18:14 <jacekowski> pr1.1*
Aug 15 17:18:21 <jacekowski> and never tried it in pr1.2
Aug 15 17:19:04 <jacekowski> and i have little bit older zimbra
Aug 15 17:19:04 <jacekowski> zcs-NETWORK-5.0.15_GA_2851.UBUNTU6.20090310180033.tgz
Aug 15 17:19:16 <jacekowski> timeless: do you have full version of zimbra or something?
Aug 15 17:19:22 <timeless> not handy
Aug 15 17:19:31 <timeless> i'd rather someone else do basic logging first
Aug 15 17:19:37 <timeless> if necessary i can arrange for this stuff
Aug 15 17:19:41 <jacekowski> i mean what version you are using?
Aug 15 17:19:42 <timeless> but really, it shouldn't be my job
Aug 15 17:19:45 <timeless> i'm not!
Aug 15 17:19:50 <timeless> we use exchange server
Aug 15 17:20:04 <timeless> the reporter of the bug you referenced said his problem went away
Aug 15 17:20:09 <timeless> that means "worksforme[reporter]"
Aug 15 17:20:10 <jacekowski> well, exchange and linux is a no go
Aug 15 17:20:28 <timeless> well, there are two or three mfe services available
Aug 15 17:20:39 <timeless> there's one which more or less committed to working w/ the n900
Aug 15 17:20:54 <timeless> and if you provide logs showing a problem
Aug 15 17:21:14 <timeless> either the mfe team will work to fix it, or they can contact the zimbra team to work to fix it
Aug 15 17:21:25 <timeless> if you don't provide logs, you're just wasting my time
Aug 15 17:21:33 <timeless> and really, enabling logging in 1.2 is *trivial*
Aug 15 17:22:06 <jacekowski> well, i just worked around the problem
Aug 15 17:22:14 <timeless> ?
Aug 15 17:22:15 <jacekowski> but i'll upgrade my zimbra
Aug 15 17:22:25 <jacekowski> and use proper mfe setup
Aug 15 17:22:26 * timeless hates users
Aug 15 17:22:48 <timeless> wait, were you using an out of date product and complaining it wasn't bugfree?
Aug 15 17:22:52 * timeless really hates users
Aug 15 17:23:10 <jacekowski> well, it wasn't out of date not so long ago
Aug 15 17:23:12 <timeless> that's like me complaining my VCR from 1988 doesn't handle HD tv well
Aug 15 17:23:29 <jacekowski> it doesn't?
Aug 15 17:23:39 <timeless> well, no :)
Aug 15 17:25:19 <jacekowski> that sucks
Aug 15 17:26:16 <timeless> given that hd tv wasn't invtented until later, it's not particularly fair
Aug 15 17:26:18 <timeless> which is the point
Aug 15 17:26:32 <jacekowski> well, it's analogue
Aug 15 17:27:05 <jacekowski> so horizontal resolution should be close to infinite
Aug 15 17:27:15 <jacekowski> which is well above HD
Aug 15 17:27:44 <EdLin> jacekowski: it uses NTSC or PAL.
Aug 15 17:27:45 <me1ne> hello maemoers... I am not quite sure if this could help me but: Is there a way to set n900 bluetooth MAC address? And can a MAC be all zeroes?
Aug 15 17:28:15 <jacekowski> horizontal resolution is still infinite
Aug 15 17:28:16 <EdLin> me1ne: first question yes, second question, ordinarily no.
Aug 15 17:28:47 <jacekowski> thats beauty of analogue signal
Aug 15 17:28:53 <me1ne> EdLin, how would I go about changing it?
Aug 15 17:29:15 <EdLin> me1ne: don't ask me, I just lurk here. ;-) I assume it can be done though.
Aug 15 17:29:24 <jacekowski> single vhs tape stores about 1T of data
Aug 15 17:29:30 <me1ne> ah well.. thx EdLin
Aug 15 17:29:37 <EdLin> me1ne: look up the information for how to do it on Google for Linux or something.
Aug 15 17:30:07 <MohammadAG51> check how i got it working on nitubuntu me1ne
Aug 15 17:30:21 <kerio> how do i reset all the hildon-thumbnails?
Aug 15 17:30:59 <MohammadAG51> modprobe hci_h4p ; echo "00:11:22:33:44:55" > /sys/devices/platform/hci_h4p/bdaddr ; modprobe -r hci_h4p ; modprobe hci_h4p
Aug 15 17:31:12 <timeless> my vcr would have been american
Aug 15 17:31:16 <timeless> and i'm in europe
Aug 15 17:31:20 <timeless> so yeah, there are some minor details
Aug 15 17:31:27 <timeless> plus the total lack of support for insane tech like scart
Aug 15 17:31:36 <MohammadAG51> scrat sucks :)
Aug 15 17:32:22 <me1ne> MohammadAG : aye will try
Aug 15 17:45:24 <DocScrutinizer> (<jacekowski> so horizontal resolution should be close to infinite) nope, it's limited to analog AV/RF bandwidth, which equals something around VGA usually
Aug 15 17:46:16 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: You get about 2MHz or so on a VHS, at maybe 4 bits.
Aug 15 17:46:33 <DocScrutinizer> as @~4MHz there's the PAL color carrier that naturally limits bandwidth
Aug 15 17:46:49 <SpeedEvil> This is ~a megabyte a second. Maybe 3.6G/hour
Aug 15 17:47:01 <SpeedEvil> There is no subcarrier on VHS
Aug 15 17:47:30 <SpeedEvil> The signal is remodulated, and the signal is altered.
Aug 15 17:47:31 <SpeedEvil> IIRC
Aug 15 17:47:43 <MohammadAG51> hmm, a joke turns into a discussion on this channel
Aug 15 17:47:47 <SpeedEvil> Hmm.
Aug 15 17:48:17 <SpeedEvil> I remember that the signal is encoded as a FM signal onto the tape with an ultimate bandwidth of up to 2M - but I forget how colour is enoced.
Aug 15 17:48:27 <SpeedEvil> I had a danmere 'Backer'
Aug 15 17:48:31 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: yes, if it's a poor joke, then of course
Aug 15 17:48:45 <SpeedEvil> It did recording on stock video tape using normal VCRs.
Aug 15 17:48:53 <SpeedEvil> IIRC it got about 600M/tape
Aug 15 17:50:25 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: jacekowski was suggesting though that analog crt tv has infinite resolution on horizontal scan, which istn't true neither for RF nor for AV. It might *theoretically* be correct for RGB/component/svideo
Aug 15 17:52:46 <MohammadAG51> since frozen-bubble was demoted, twice, for retarded reasons, i'm keeping it in -devel
Aug 15 17:52:59 <kerio> MohammadAG: is it playable?
Aug 15 17:53:02 * kerio goes to install
Aug 15 17:53:19 <timeless> why was it demoted?
Aug 15 17:53:32 <DocScrutinizer> does it blend?
Aug 15 17:53:38 <kerio> oh ffs it needs perl
Aug 15 17:53:39 <MohammadAG51> kerio, yes
Aug 15 17:53:43 * kerio doesn't install it
Aug 15 17:53:50 <MohammadAG51> perl takes up rootfs space, blame Nokia
Aug 15 17:54:05 <MohammadAG51> timeless, that's why
Aug 15 17:54:12 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Aug 15 17:54:59 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, it needs Qt 4.7.3 to blend
Aug 15 17:55:02 <MohammadAG51> pr1.3
Aug 15 17:55:38 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52794
Aug 15 17:55:50 <SpeedEvil> horizontal resolution on the n900 - I did some research.
Aug 15 17:55:58 <kerio> SpeedEvil: it's... 800?
Aug 15 17:56:02 <SpeedEvil> no
Aug 15 17:56:05 <SpeedEvil> Way under
Aug 15 17:56:06 <kerio> ghgh
Aug 15 17:56:11 <kerio> :O
Aug 15 17:56:15 <kerio> :(
Aug 15 17:56:24 <DocScrutinizer> on AV I suppose?
Aug 15 17:56:35 <kerio> it looks 800x480
Aug 15 17:56:44 <kerio> oh, the AV
Aug 15 17:56:46 <kerio> whew
Aug 15 17:57:39 <kerio> 640x480i60 for ntsc, 768x576i50 for pal?
Aug 15 17:57:41 <SpeedEvil> yes
Aug 15 17:57:50 <SpeedEvil> kerio: no, you can't do that.
Aug 15 17:58:32 <SpeedEvil> kerio: It's more like 460*480 for NTSC - or close to that.
Aug 15 17:58:49 <timeless> is this ignoring interlacing?
Aug 15 17:58:58 <kerio> that sucks ._.
Aug 15 17:59:04 <SpeedEvil> Interlacing is completely irrelevant to horizontal resolution.
Aug 15 17:59:38 <SpeedEvil> Well - if you compare between an interlaced signal, and one with the same vertical resolution.
Aug 15 18:00:17 <luke-jr> interlacing is basically half vertical resolution, double framerate
Aug 15 18:00:19 <luke-jr> with a skew
Aug 15 18:00:49 <SpeedEvil> It's a hack to keep vertical resolution and double the framerate
Aug 15 18:00:56 <SpeedEvil> that mostly works with CRT displays.
Aug 15 18:01:32 <luke-jr> can work on LCD fine
Aug 15 18:01:35 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: >>At best it would be mono. Even if it's possible at all.<< eh? why that?
Aug 15 18:01:47 <SpeedEvil> monochrome
Aug 15 18:01:49 <luke-jr> just not necessarily any more efficient than progressive
Aug 15 18:01:54 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Aug 15 18:02:09 * luke-jr wonders why no video players actually have a sane implementation of interlacing
Aug 15 18:02:13 <trumee> are .ogg streams decoded by dsp?
Aug 15 18:02:16 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: CRT works better fundamentally.
Aug 15 18:02:20 <luke-jr> trumee: ofc not
Aug 15 18:02:30 <trumee> luke-jr: what about mp3?
Aug 15 18:02:47 <luke-jr> trumee: nfc
Aug 15 18:02:50 <DocScrutinizer> depends
Aug 15 18:02:57 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: As with CRTs, a large portion of the light comes out at the exact point that the beam hits the screen, or a tiny fraction later. The rest comes out later.
Aug 15 18:02:58 <trumee> what eats less battery .ogg or .mp3
Aug 15 18:03:03 <luke-jr> trumee: but .ogg is too simple to waste DSP on
Aug 15 18:03:03 <SpeedEvil> trumee: mp3
Aug 15 18:03:10 <kerio> what about .oggs that are actually mp3?
Aug 15 18:03:12 <DocScrutinizer> I knew he'd ask that
Aug 15 18:03:13 <timeless> um
Aug 15 18:03:14 <SpeedEvil> trumee: At least according to some measurements.
Aug 15 18:03:22 <SpeedEvil> trumee: however.
Aug 15 18:03:33 <timeless> are you guys talking about .ogv or .oga?
Aug 15 18:03:35 <SpeedEvil> trumee: It's largely irrelevant unless you killpulseaudio.
Aug 15 18:03:38 <trumee> i want to setup icecast server, and was wondering which format to choose (.ogg vs mp3)
Aug 15 18:03:43 <luke-jr> timeless: I'm talking about .ogg container
Aug 15 18:03:53 <SpeedEvil> trumee: It's pretty irrelevant.
Aug 15 18:03:53 <timeless> the container isn't interesting...
Aug 15 18:03:59 <DocScrutinizer> http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/
Aug 15 18:04:09 <luke-jr> timeless: I agree
Aug 15 18:04:18 <luke-jr> but that's what .ogg is
Aug 15 18:04:19 <luke-jr> a container
Aug 15 18:04:27 <timeless> theora/vorbis are interesting
Aug 15 18:04:32 <trumee> ogg Vorbis files
Aug 15 18:04:34 <luke-jr> he didn't ask about those
Aug 15 18:04:48 <timeless> as is/are mpeg-audio v. mpeg-video (e.g. layer 3? or 4?)
Aug 15 18:05:41 <SpeedEvil> The container can be interesting if it stops the hardware understanding it.
Aug 15 18:05:59 <trumee> luke-jr: so what about vorbis files?
Aug 15 18:06:18 <DocScrutinizer> hardware understands containers?
Aug 15 18:06:20 <ShadowJK> ogg the container is mostly embarassing
Aug 15 18:06:28 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: that links shows mp3 is better than ogg
Aug 15 18:06:52 <kerio> trumee: read moar
Aug 15 18:06:57 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Aug 15 18:06:59 <kerio> ffvorbis gives the same battery life
Aug 15 18:07:01 <DocScrutinizer> moar!
Aug 15 18:07:24 <kerio> and pulseaudio's forced equalizer sucks 3 hours of battery life
Aug 15 18:07:28 <kerio> the asshole
Aug 15 18:08:02 <trumee> what is the difference between libvorbis and ffvorbis?
Aug 15 18:08:24 <ShadowJK> libvorbis is the vorbis decoder by xiph.org
Aug 15 18:08:42 <ShadowJK> ffvorbis is part of ffmpeg, it's an independent implementation
Aug 15 18:08:57 <trumee> so is ffvorbis picked used by N900 media player?
Aug 15 18:09:46 <ShadowJK> the ffmpeg people are kinda awesome. Implemented google's "patent-free" VP8 in 1000 lines of code, thanks to vp@having so much in common with h264 ;)
Aug 15 18:10:36 <timeless> h264??
Aug 15 18:10:40 <trumee> N900 uses libvorbis or ffvorbis?
Aug 15 18:10:48 <trumee> media player i mean.
Aug 15 18:10:52 <timeless> don't you mean vorbis?
Aug 15 18:11:21 <SpeedEvil> Random. Does anyone happen to know how to go from flash video to mpeg/avi or something with ffmpeg? I do ffmpeg file.flv -o test.mpg or whatever, and it gets upset due to completely screwed timestamps on the video
Aug 15 18:11:28 <SpeedEvil> ffplay plays it fine.
Aug 15 18:11:36 <trumee> The stream is coded into vorbis, but about the decoder in N900?
Aug 15 18:11:59 <ShadowJK> timeless, no I mean vp8 is similar to h264
Aug 15 18:12:30 <ShadowJK> vorbis is audio and vp8 is video, they share almost 0 code
Aug 15 18:15:00 <kerio> is there something that brings up the tracker somehow?
Aug 15 18:15:11 <kerio> because i bet the slow transfer speeds via wifi are because of that fucker
Aug 15 18:17:32 <SpeedEvil> What speeds d oyou get?
Aug 15 18:17:36 <SpeedEvil> I get ~1.5M/s
Aug 15 18:19:00 <nox-> heh yeah i had to replace a html tree with a zipfile + python httpd hack bc tracker sucked too much cpu/battery indexing the tree...
Aug 15 18:19:12 <nox-> tracker and image-viewer probably too
Aug 15 18:21:16 <kerio> SpeedEvil: sftp, 300kb/s to 1mb/s
Aug 15 18:22:05 <kerio> but yeah, i could fifo something for a python httpd on my computer, or just socat a tarball
Aug 15 18:22:27 <kerio> or i could upload it somewhere that's not tracked
Aug 15 18:22:44 <timeless> or you could tell trackerd to ignore that directory
Aug 15 18:22:48 <timeless> it is after all configurable
Aug 15 18:22:57 <timeless> yeah, i know, it's stupid for it to be flexibl
Aug 15 18:22:58 <timeless> e
Aug 15 18:24:32 <DocScrutinizer> trackerd *is* stupid
Aug 15 18:25:00 <DocScrutinizer> or - to be precise - the way it's used on maemo is stupid
Aug 15 18:28:29 * DocScrutinizer pondering an adaequately stupid UI to configure subdirectories as noscan for tracker, plus force-scan indexing of a subtree/directory
Aug 15 18:28:30 <nox-> image-viewer does this too i think
Aug 15 18:28:53 <DocScrutinizer> yes, also uses tracker aiui
Aug 15 18:29:43 <nox-> well it didnt seem to respect tracker's noscan config too :(
Aug 15 18:29:56 <DocScrutinizer> it's really making my a.. bleed when I see the buttons of irreco in image-viewer :-P
Aug 15 18:30:05 <nox-> hehe
Aug 15 18:32:36 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, better than seeing world flags cause of the world cup widget
Aug 15 18:32:51 <DocScrutinizer> ouuuuch
Aug 15 18:33:18 <DocScrutinizer> tracker for conqueror of galaxy!
Aug 15 18:38:38 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG51: I bet there's regions of this planet where a  police/military control and checking your phone would really get you into trouble with all those flags
Aug 15 18:39:36 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, yeah, i'm targetting all countries that participated in the world cup
Aug 15 18:41:41 <DocScrutinizer51> 'mhm yo sucker! flag of Kuba. Take this, dirty commie'
Aug 15 18:42:37 <moriarty> Hi! I recently bought a N900, and I'm playing around with it, but I couldn't manage to add either the extras-testing or the extras-devel repos. The app manager log (and tried comman line apt-get update too) gives me a 404 Not found http error. However, on my desktop I can access the Package and Package.gz files
Aug 15 18:42:44 <moriarty> what else can I try?
Aug 15 18:43:09 <DocScrutinizer51> 'look there, Cliff. he's got a Russia flag too. Bring me my winchester!'
Aug 15 18:44:27 <DocScrutinizer51> moriarty: check the wiki about extras-devel/testing
Aug 15 18:51:18 <moriarty> @DocScrutinizer: yeap, already did that
Aug 15 18:51:19 <DocScrutinizer> "Steve, you changed the password of your phone? I want to call the kids" - "WAIT darling, it's ummm.. broken. Been broken. I changed it... yesterday" >ssh root@n900 rm -r ~user/MyDocs/.mySecretPr0n; *pfff*   -  "...the new password is..."
Aug 15 18:51:44 <moriarty> @DocScrutinizer: the repository is set up correctly
Aug 15 18:51:59 <moriarty> there was a similar problem reported in the forum
Aug 15 18:52:05 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, maybe the repos are down. Happens every now and then
Aug 15 18:52:11 <moriarty> the guy solved it by removing and readding the repo
Aug 15 18:52:16 <moriarty> I did that as well
Aug 15 18:52:34 <moriarty> well, no, because on my desktop it does work
Aug 15 18:52:43 <moriarty> and I have been trying for a week
Aug 15 18:53:41 <moriarty> I've seen that repository.maemo.org is hosted on Akamai
Aug 15 18:53:54 <moriarty> so you get different IPs, depending on your ISP
Aug 15 18:54:11 <DocScrutinizer> apt also does update correctly right ATM
Aug 15 18:54:17 <moriarty> so I manually added an entry to a known good IP
Aug 15 18:54:21 <DocScrutinizer> check your spelling
Aug 15 18:54:23 <moriarty> in /etc/hosts
Aug 15 18:54:34 <moriarty> again. I get not found
Aug 15 18:54:52 <moriarty> I checked the spelling again and again
Aug 15 18:55:15 <moriarty> isn't apt stroring some strange stuff somewhere
Aug 15 18:55:18 <moriarty> ?
Aug 15 18:55:20 <DocScrutinizer> can you access the URL via browser on N900? or just ping it?
Aug 15 18:55:51 <moriarty> ping yes
Aug 15 18:56:08 <moriarty> since I get HTTP 404 error
Aug 15 18:56:17 <moriarty> but I will try the browser as well
Aug 15 18:57:31 <nox-> yeah akamai seems to have issues sometimes...  like n900 cant browse pages that pc sees from the same notwork :(
Aug 15 18:58:54 <moriarty> yes, and because of that I tested to see which IPs are resolved for the name
Aug 15 18:58:57 <moriarty> they were different
Aug 15 18:59:11 <moriarty> so I added the IP I got on my desktop
Aug 15 18:59:18 <moriarty> and which worked for sure
Aug 15 18:59:23 <moriarty> still to no avail
Aug 15 19:01:28 <nox-> stupid akamai :(
Aug 15 19:01:57 <moriarty> ok, I now tried to access with the browser http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/dists/freemantle/free/binary-armel/
Aug 15 19:02:02 <moriarty> there is it
Aug 15 19:02:03 <moriarty> packages
Aug 15 19:02:25 <nox-> hm could you make n900 send a pc useragent string?
Aug 15 19:02:35 <MohammadAG51> about:config
Aug 15 19:02:37 <DocScrutinizer> got timeout on http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel, so probably servers are flawed
Aug 15 19:02:59 * MohammadAG51 punches X-Fade 
Aug 15 19:03:01 <MohammadAG51> pokes*
Aug 15 19:03:05 <DocScrutinizer> if wiki is nonresponsive, the repos may as well
Aug 15 19:03:08 <nox-> wiki really seems to be overworked sometimes... :(
Aug 15 19:03:12 <tybollt> MohammadAG51++
Aug 15 19:06:36 <DocScrutinizer> moriarty: see http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing#How_to_activate_Extras-testing and http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel, there's not much more you can do except making sure catalogs are configured correctly in Hildon App Manager
Aug 15 19:07:14 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: why punch X-Fade ?
Aug 15 19:08:00 <moriarty> @DocScrutinizer: ok, thanks for the help!
Aug 15 19:08:19 <moriarty> @DocScrutinizer: I will keep trying
Aug 15 19:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> moriarty: if problems persist, check what else might interfere with general connectivity and/or with installing packages (e.g. fapman)
Aug 15 19:12:03 <tybollt> fapman? o_O
Aug 15 19:12:52 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, mind if i ask you some stuff about sed later today?
Aug 15 19:32:38 <ham5> where can I set it to open the month calendar when I click on the desktop widget?
Aug 15 19:37:48 * kirma wonders if there are any good books for most recent Qt releases and features coming on them, like QSharedPointer etc etc
Aug 15 19:38:21 <luke-jr> yet more evidence Qt is not C++ :p
Aug 15 19:39:32 <kirma> well, OTOH C++ is a language that lacks any sort of consistent programming style that would be obvious and commonly accepted
Aug 15 19:39:54 <kirma> which is IMHO a design failure of sorts for a language
Aug 15 19:40:32 <luke-jr> no comment ☺
Aug 15 19:40:40 <luke-jr> my point is simply that Qt is a new language itsefl
Aug 15 19:40:59 <kirma> well, at least it's not Symbian "C++" ... :I
Aug 15 19:41:48 <luke-jr> after all, C++ has std::shared_ptr
Aug 15 19:42:02 <luke-jr> if Qt was just a toolkit for C++, it wouldn't make sense to reinvent the wheel
Aug 15 19:42:12 <kirma> but of course it's a subset of C++ with certain kind of programming style and... would I say, "patternology" bound to a specific C++ toolkit
Aug 15 19:42:21 <luke-jr> it's a superset of C++
Aug 15 19:42:46 <luke-jr> Qt is a language compatible with mixing C++ and C to a limited degree
Aug 15 19:42:56 <luke-jr> just like C++ is a language compatible with mixing C to a limited degreee
Aug 15 19:43:20 <kirma> I haven't written C++ for like 14 years, but I'd like to learn at least Qt since there isn't entirely supported, up-to-date on a language that would make me interested
Aug 15 19:43:54 <kirma> ehm, other language binding
Aug 15 19:44:15 <luke-jr> you can write Qt without touching another language
Aug 15 19:45:06 <kirma> well, let's say that I'd like to write Qt stuff with Python, but it's obvious the bindings and their support aren't really the same as "native" Qt
Aug 15 19:45:32 <luke-jr> ta's nI mean
Aug 15 19:45:36 * luke-jr stabs keyboard
Aug 15 19:45:40 <luke-jr> that's not what I mean
Aug 15 19:45:51 <luke-jr> I mean you can write Qt code without using C++, Python, or any language other than Qt
Aug 15 19:46:36 <luke-jr> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/index.html
Aug 15 19:47:21 <kirma> I actually think I jump directly to 4.7 on my attempt to learn
Aug 15 19:47:36 <luke-jr> then you create applications dependant on an unreleased version
Aug 15 19:47:53 <kirma> although there's not much else than the declarative/QML stuff there that really adds to average Qt stuff
Aug 15 19:47:56 <luke-jr> might actually be better to start with 4.5, since I'm not sure 4.6 is widely deployed yet
Aug 15 19:48:13 <kirma> I'm not even planning to "release" anything during couple next months
Aug 15 19:48:27 <kirma> and it's pretty obvious Qt 4.7 should be released in couple months
Aug 15 19:48:48 <luke-jr> and probably never for N8x0, and maybe not for N900
Aug 15 19:48:54 <kirma> I'm primarily interested of mobile platforms, anyway, although the interest is general
Aug 15 19:49:32 <kirma> luke-jr: at least on Qt git repos, there are branches referring to both PR1.3 and qt4.7 on the same name
Aug 15 19:49:55 <luke-jr> kirma: that doesn't mean Nokia will ever release it
Aug 15 19:50:00 <kirma> of course
Aug 15 19:50:03 <luke-jr> even if they do, that doesn't cover N8x0 :p
Aug 15 19:50:24 <luke-jr> yeah, looks like N8x0 is still 4.5
Aug 15 19:50:35 <kirma> about that... I don't really care. it doesn't cover my 770 either, and I'm not cursing about it ;)
Aug 15 19:50:48 <luke-jr> on the other hand… I doubt Maemo will be used much longer on either platform
Aug 15 19:53:07 <kirma> if I'm thinking about mass deployment of actual applications, there's no need me to emotionally attach myself on N900, it's a marginal device even if it would get perfect support. for mobile Qt, it'll be existing Symbian installed base (starting from S60v3something), future S^3,4,5... and MeeGo
Aug 15 19:54:55 <kirma> I believe Nokia will support rudimentary support (forget implementing your own mapping plugins on old devices and getting them on the navigator, for instance) support of 4.7 even on S60v3 devices, and probably 4.8 or whatever too
Aug 15 19:55:28 <kirma> they want to build a believable migration path and existing installed base for the toolkit
Aug 15 19:55:44 <kirma> -support -support :)
Aug 15 19:56:16 <luke-jr> kirma: anything written for 4.5 will work with 4.6+
Aug 15 19:56:32 <kirma> that's also true, of course
Aug 15 19:56:36 <luke-jr> or at least that was the case pre-Nokia
Aug 15 19:56:39 <luke-jr> I imagine still is
Aug 15 19:57:00 <kirma> but there's no sign of "big launch" of Qt on Nokia handsets to be anything less than 4.7
Aug 15 19:57:21 <luke-jr> also keep in mind release does not imply used
Aug 15 19:57:29 <kirma> I mean, 4.7 is supported all through the product families that can even be considered in-use generation
Aug 15 19:57:30 <luke-jr> many operating systems released on a 3 year cycle
Aug 15 19:57:52 <luke-jr> so it will be up to 3 years after 4.7 is released before it gets deployed fully
Aug 15 19:58:42 <kirma> for that purpose, they provide Qt Easy Installer or whatever for existing Symbian devices that are not ancient
Aug 15 19:59:04 <luke-jr> …
Aug 15 19:59:28 <kirma> I see random UTF-8 mess in latin-1 terminal :)
Aug 15 20:00:01 <DangerMaus> luke-jr are you familar with the accelerometre?
Aug 15 20:00:16 <luke-jr> DangerMaus: no
Aug 15 20:00:22 <luke-jr> kirma: it's an elipsis
Aug 15 20:00:42 <luke-jr> kirma: for example, Debian is using Qt 4.3 still
Aug 15 20:01:33 <luke-jr> released February 2009
Aug 15 20:01:41 <luke-jr> (the most recent Debian version)
Aug 15 20:02:43 <kirma> oh well, these kind of limitations exist. at this point I'm not interested of them too much... in professional work, I write plain C with the C standard library, and that's pretty much it. this is at the moment hobbyist study.
Aug 15 20:03:21 <DangerMaus> im looking for a reaon other than i broke it that everytime the phone takes a light hit such as putting it down something happens like screen minamizes or desktop edit comes on in my pocket :(
Aug 15 20:04:36 <DangerMaus> looking for a switch or somethimg doing this i thought of the accelerometre
Aug 15 20:04:56 <jani> luke-jr: i belive nokia hasnt changed much how tihngs work in qt level and even then, if there is breakage, it will be trolls who make the decision,not some nokia exec.
Aug 15 20:05:06 <DangerMaus> any ideas appreciated
Aug 15 20:05:36 <luke-jr> kirma: also, the next version of Debian (6.0) will include Qt 4.6 no matter if 4.7 is released in the meantime
Aug 15 20:07:04 <kirma> well, difference between 4.6 and 4.7 is mostly related to Qt Quick/QML/declarative stuff, which isn't awfully important on desktops with conventional UIs... since QML stuff at the moment doesn't seem to represent conventional desktop UIs at all
Aug 15 20:07:15 <kirma> if I understood it right
Aug 15 20:07:31 <jani> luke-jr: and thats tells more about debian and their decisions, not what qt does or accomplishes ;)
Aug 15 20:07:43 <luke-jr> jani: it's also good practice
Aug 15 20:08:00 <luke-jr> jani: and Qt is useless if the version you use precludes real people using your app
Aug 15 20:08:11 <jani> ofcourse but hardly a qt's blame. allthou im sure the issue wasnt about blaming anyone
Aug 15 20:08:47 <luke-jr> nope
Aug 15 20:08:57 <luke-jr> just that it's better to use a slightly older version when possible
Aug 15 20:09:42 <jani> some people have that sort of luxury yes ;)
Aug 15 20:37:39 <alterego> Has anyone managed to get the qt4.7 toolchain to work with madde?
Aug 15 20:38:55 <MohammadAG51> alterego, use a proper devkit
Aug 15 20:40:48 <alterego> MohammadAG51: ? Like scratchbox? :P
Aug 15 20:44:04 <alterego> Think I might have found out how to get it to work ..
Aug 15 21:07:42 <DangerMaus_> da maus is in da haus
Aug 15 21:07:53 <DangerMaus_> oops
Aug 15 21:08:45 <Proteous>   ...
Aug 15 21:44:33 <DocScrutinizer> ( <luke-jr> just that it's better to use a slightly older version ) so wtf is everybody so eager to jump to meego?
Aug 15 21:46:11 <DocScrutinizer> why isn't Nokia themselves developing on maemo - e.g. a decent ovi maps, with all bells and whistles, and *then* port it to meego when they think they need it over there
Aug 15 21:47:29 <DocScrutinizer> would serve both purposes, supporting and showing dedication to maemo, and same time verifying/testing the supposed migration path
Aug 15 21:49:23 <DocScrutinizer> I mean, how would anybody trust in suggested maemo backwards compatibility of meego, if not even the protagonists of meego dare to use maemo as a development environment and prove the portability
Aug 15 21:50:42 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: because corporations don't reason that way
Aug 15 21:51:16 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: most managers believe: "Develop for one platform, no porting needed, plus because platform x is under high development, we'll get support"
Aug 15 21:51:22 <DocScrutinizer> mhm, due to lack of sensible product managers
Aug 15 21:51:53 <crashanddie> i would also wager that most PMs don't actually know nor care about meego/maemo. They just see a list of platforms, and make the easiest/fastest choice
Aug 15 21:52:28 <DocScrutinizer> then a monkey did a better job on that position
Aug 15 21:53:05 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Aug 15 21:54:01 <DocScrutinizer> maybe even a pair of dice or a big void wuld do a better job
Aug 15 22:00:49 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: here's something so soothe your mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5BNgusT3rE
Aug 15 22:01:35 <anarcat> hi
Aug 15 22:01:49 <anarcat> i don't understand why i can't install this package on my n900: http://maemo.org/packages/view/mbarcode/
Aug 15 22:02:02 <anarcat> in general, have any of you been able to do qrcode scanning on the n900?
Aug 15 22:02:24 <crashanddie> anarcat: lardman is one of the main devs
Aug 15 22:02:35 <crashanddie> anarcat: he should be in here in about 10 hours
Aug 15 22:03:18 <anarcat> i see
Aug 15 22:03:40 <anarcat> but the package is there... i just don't see it in my app manager... why is that?
Aug 15 22:04:02 <kerio> anarcat: i am
Aug 15 22:04:03 <kerio> it works
Aug 15 22:04:17 <kerio> and... ctrl+shift+x, root, apt-get install mbarcode
Aug 15 22:04:54 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Aug 15 22:05:04 <anarcat> kerio: couldn't find package mbarcode
Aug 15 22:05:17 <anarcat> kerio: i feel like i haven't enable "extras" in here, but i don't see how i can do that
Aug 15 22:05:26 <anarcat> i mean, there's a maemo.org line in there
Aug 15 22:05:38 <Fadi> hi
Aug 15 22:05:41 <kerio> is mbarcode is extras?
Aug 15 22:06:19 <anarcat> i don't know, looks like it: http://maemo.org/packages/view/mbarcode/
Aug 15 22:06:24 <anarcat> or is this extras-devel?
Aug 15 22:06:51 <crashanddie> anarcat: devel and testing
Aug 15 22:07:04 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: watch http://maemo.org/packages/view/mbarcode/ and answer your own question
Aug 15 22:07:12 <crashanddie> anarcat: look at the "Releases" part
Aug 15 22:07:13 <kerio> nah, cba
Aug 15 22:07:27 <Fadi> hi
Aug 15 22:07:36 <anarcat> crashanddie: so i need to add devel?
Aug 15 22:07:50 <crashanddie> I won't reply to that
Aug 15 22:07:52 <kerio> anarcat: just testing would be better, atm
Aug 15 22:08:00 <kerio> and expect trouble
Aug 15 22:08:02 <crashanddie> anarcat: the general rule is "if you need to ask, the answer is no"
Aug 15 22:08:19 <anarcat> hum
Aug 15 22:08:27 <anarcat> er
Aug 15 22:08:31 <anarcat> so how do i install this thing?
Aug 15 22:08:41 <anarcat> kerio: or rather, how did *you* install this?
Aug 15 22:08:42 <DocScrutinizer> anarcat: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/m/mbarcode/mbarcode_0.0.8-0_armel.deb
Aug 15 22:09:03 <DocScrutinizer> @.@
Aug 15 22:09:15 <anarcat> DocScrutinizer: i tried downloading the .deb directly, but then it failed on missing dependencies
Aug 15 22:09:25 <anarcat> it seems absurd to try to do this by hand while i have apt-get over there
Aug 15 22:09:37 <crashanddie> anarcat: have you ever flashed your device?
Aug 15 22:09:49 <anarcat> crashanddie: no
Aug 15 22:10:00 <crashanddie> are you willing to give it a shot?
Aug 15 22:10:02 <anarcat> crashanddie: i have flashed other devices (wrt54g) before though
Aug 15 22:10:21 <anarcat> crashanddie: i'm not sure what that implies, and i'm not familiar with the process, so i would rather not, at this point
Aug 15 22:10:31 <crashanddie> then don't install devel
Aug 15 22:10:56 <crashanddie> if it's just to install a smallish program with little dependencies, just add devel and remove it immediately after, and don't run any updates
Aug 15 22:11:04 <anarcat> yeah
Aug 15 22:11:10 <anarcat> crashanddie: i can't seem to be able to install devel
Aug 15 22:11:24 <kerio> hmm, rsync still brings down my n900 :(
Aug 15 22:11:35 <crashanddie> but considering that mbarcode depends on a couple dozen other packages, you're most probably going to kill your n900
Aug 15 22:11:37 <anarcat> i copied the extras/ line from sources.d and changed extras to extras-testing (or devel, same) and that gives 404s in apt-get update
Aug 15 22:11:43 <anarcat> crashanddie: ah.
Aug 15 22:11:57 <anarcat> i guess that's a no no then
Aug 15 22:12:05 <anarcat> when can we expect stuff in testing to hit the main tree?
Aug 15 22:12:12 <anarcat> kerio: (and where's rsync! ;)
Aug 15 22:12:18 <kerio> apt-get install rsync
Aug 15 22:12:21 <crashanddie> anarcat: come in here and hope to find lardman
Aug 15 22:12:27 <crashanddie> ~seen lardman
Aug 15 22:12:28 <anarcat> crashanddie: awesome
Aug 15 22:12:29 <infobot> lardman <~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 12h 49m 56s ago, saying: 'bbl'.
Aug 15 22:12:52 <crashanddie> or drop him an email, ask him how he runs it on his device, and what are the risks involved
Aug 15 22:13:05 <anarcat> cool
Aug 15 22:13:11 <anarcat> i should just write him, indeed
Aug 15 22:13:24 <anarcat> hum
Aug 15 22:13:27 <anarcat> what *is* his email? :)
Aug 15 22:13:32 <anarcat> kerio: cool, got rsync!
Aug 15 22:13:33 <anarcat> nice
Aug 15 22:14:29 <anarcat> ok, thanks folks, i guess i'll just wait for lardman to pop in here... can i leave him a message here somehow?
Aug 15 22:14:37 <anarcat> or if you guys have his email, that would be nice too
Aug 15 22:14:47 <anarcat> otherwise you can write me at @anarcat.ath.cx
Aug 15 22:14:55 <anarcat> tx
Aug 15 22:15:09 <crashanddie> HOLY SHIT
Aug 15 22:15:18 <crashanddie> lardman is the oldest community member, it would seem
Aug 15 22:15:27 <crashanddie> he was registered on maemo.org before Linux even existed!
Aug 15 22:15:29 <anarcat> 1970 :)
Aug 15 22:15:45 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Aug 15 22:15:48 <nox-> haha
Aug 15 22:15:56 <nox-> talk about unix time zero
Aug 15 22:16:11 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-08-16 00:15:33] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on lardman (account lardman):
Aug 15 22:16:12 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-08-16 00:15:33] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Jun 17 14:50:39 2004 (6 years, 8 weeks, 4 days, 07:24:54 ago)
Aug 15 22:16:13 <crashanddie> that might explain why he was always on the front page
Aug 15 22:16:54 <crashanddie> nox-: he's powerful, he managed to make PHP's time() function return null :D
Aug 15 22:17:04 <DocScrutinizer> not exactly 1970, but anyway
Aug 15 22:17:20 <crashanddie> well, 1970-01-01
Aug 15 22:18:38 <nox-> it that wasnt some accident he sure has some geek humor :)
Aug 15 22:20:13 <lcuk> crashanddie, seems like a likely reason
Aug 15 22:20:45 <lcuk> i think its timeless thought that has badly formatted datestamps :P
Aug 15 22:33:14 <lcuk> crashanddie, are you running an extract from maemo.org servers?
Aug 15 22:33:35 <crashanddie> eh?
Aug 15 22:35:05 <crashanddie> lcuk: lolwut?
Aug 15 22:37:48 <lcuk> noticing lardman has earlybird datestamp and that it causes null in python
Aug 15 22:43:14 <crashanddie> lcuk: datestamp is indicated on profile page, and only considering that PHP isn't supposed to fail on something like time() or mkdate(), they probably didn't clean their database input
Aug 15 22:43:47 <crashanddie> or check the return codes from SQL properly
Aug 15 22:43:50 <crashanddie> anyway, off to bed
Aug 15 22:43:52 <crashanddie> 'later all
Aug 15 22:45:33 <kerio> what swappiness do you guys use?
Aug 15 22:47:28 <SpeedEvil> default
Aug 15 22:47:40 <SpeedEvil> Though I had some sort livelock today
Aug 15 22:48:10 <SpeedEvil> swapdeath, no ssh, would tick when pressed but not switch apps or ...
Aug 15 22:49:22 <kerio> default is 100
Aug 15 22:49:23 <kerio> :/
Aug 15 22:49:27 <DocScrutinizer> noob question: where / how would I start to add a function to specific URLs in (microb) web browser? Is there such a thing like page-specific local CSS with embedded JS, or a generic plugin format, or what else? - usecase example: add a link context menu item to each hit on google.com results page, like "wget this URL"
Aug 15 22:49:52 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: hmm... something like greasemonkey?
Aug 15 22:50:24 <DocScrutinizer> mhm, anyway would like to keep microb, or best case browser agnostic
Aug 15 22:51:30 <kerio> greasemonkey is a firefox extension
Aug 15 22:55:41 <DocScrutinizer> I know
Aug 15 22:56:08 <DocScrutinizer> so are you trying to say they should work with microb?
Aug 15 22:57:09 <DocScrutinizer> I think I'd prefer some client side JS
Aug 15 22:57:44 <DocScrutinizer> or maybe even a proxy to modify the pages on the fly :-o
Aug 15 22:58:21 <DocScrutinizer> though I'm sure there are better ways - just I'm a complete noob wrt "web programming"
Aug 15 22:58:44 <Noma> how easy is it to install meego in a dual boot with maemo?
Aug 15 22:59:07 <DocScrutinizer> Noma: aiui it's quite the normal way it is done
Aug 15 22:59:21 <DocScrutinizer> don't quote me
Aug 15 22:59:40 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps should knoiw better
Aug 15 23:00:31 <DocScrutinizer> (not that it may, or may not, be easy to install meego at large)
Aug 15 23:02:12 <Seiya> i can't connect by ssh. open ssh is installed.
Aug 15 23:02:22 <Seiya> putty also
Aug 15 23:02:52 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: (livelock) it will sort out *eventually* :-D Just wait a few hours, and do not click to often, it will alll store up :-P
Aug 15 23:03:39 <DocScrutinizer> putty? I gather ssh metapkg (server and client) was installed on N900 nevertheless
Aug 15 23:04:24 <DocScrutinizer> Seiya: simple test: ssh root@localhost
Aug 15 23:04:35 <DocScrutinizer> from N900 user xterm
Aug 15 23:05:52 <DocScrutinizer> (damn !  One of my maemo xterm windows ate my CR key... :-(  ^M still works
Aug 15 23:06:07 <kerio> ^M?
Aug 15 23:06:12 <kerio> don't you mean ^J?
Aug 15 23:06:20 <nox-> heh for me return is broken in less too, have to use ^j...
Aug 15 23:06:20 <kerio> and yeah, happens to me sometimes
Aug 15 23:06:24 <kerio> terminals suck
Aug 15 23:07:46 <DocScrutinizer> mhm, borked here since I used less
Aug 15 23:08:07 <DocScrutinizer> over ssh, on a remote box
Aug 15 23:08:23 <DocScrutinizer> local less works great
Aug 15 23:08:27 <nox-> ssh'd from n900 or to it?
Aug 15 23:08:33 <DocScrutinizer> fro
Aug 15 23:08:37 <nox-> hmm
Aug 15 23:08:53 <nox-> i wonder if its is some terminal emulation fuckup...
Aug 15 23:09:03 <nox-> s/its/this/
Aug 15 23:09:03 <infobot> nox- meant: i wonder if this is some terminal emulation fuckup...
Aug 15 23:09:12 <kerio> it is
Aug 15 23:09:16 <kerio> terminals really suck :(
Aug 15 23:10:30 <nox-> at least that tells me this `xterm' isnt really using original xterm emulation code then...
Aug 15 23:10:36 <nox-> (bc _that_ works :)
Aug 15 23:10:41 <DocScrutinizer> nokia-n900 ~> ssh my@box.no.where;  less foo; "/bar<CR>"<-borked  ; close ssh to  my@box; <CR> borked in local xterm as well
Aug 15 23:11:42 <nox-> and i mean xterm source code
Aug 15 23:11:48 <DocScrutinizer> >CR> is known to be fsckdup. Some transcoding forth and back enter<->CR
Aug 15 23:11:56 <DocScrutinizer> NK-enter
Aug 15 23:13:14 <DocScrutinizer> maybe less soewhat messes with keymaps, and uses NK-enter in a special way
Aug 15 23:13:41 <nox-> i doubt that
Aug 15 23:14:13 * nox- rather suspects some esc sequences get misinterpreted
Aug 15 23:14:25 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, there's some long lingering issue with brainfsckd >CR> mapping on maemo devices
Aug 15 23:15:16 * nox- pretty sure less does nothing with keymaps itself...
Aug 15 23:15:18 <nox-> why should it
Aug 15 23:15:27 <DocScrutinizer> on entering "YES" for ssh adding server key, it echoes "^[OM"
Aug 15 23:16:13 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
Aug 15 23:16:39 <DocScrutinizer> maybe ^[0M
Aug 15 23:16:47 <nox-> yeah when i search in less and hit return by accident instead of ^j i get some esc sequence too
Aug 15 23:17:50 <DocScrutinizer> mhm, there's some key conversion in every app on N900, as N900 kbd has NK-enter only
Aug 15 23:17:53 <zeltak> hya guys..can anyone tell me what headphones come with the n900 (got mine used and got screwed by with mismatched headphones)
Aug 15 23:18:10 <nox-> NK == keypad?
Aug 15 23:18:21 <DocScrutinizer> numeric keypad
Aug 15 23:18:26 <nox-> yeah
Aug 15 23:18:53 <jani> zeltak: what sort of stuff you mean ?
Aug 15 23:19:01 <nox-> impedance?
Aug 15 23:19:12 <DocScrutinizer> zeltak: every 'usual' headset will work, if it's absolute standard
Aug 15 23:19:27 <nox-> well some get distortion
Aug 15 23:19:40 <DocScrutinizer> the one that comes with N900 has a rather unusual flat cable
Aug 15 23:20:38 <jani> and has 3 connection surfaces as it has mic in on it too but if you dont need the mic part, you can plug any sort of headphones into it.
Aug 15 23:20:56 <nox-> mic?  i thought thats composite out?
Aug 15 23:21:57 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia adhering to 'standard' as of http://members.omtp.org/Lists/ReqPublications/Attachments/36/OMTP_Local_Connectivity_Wired_Analogue_Audio_v1_0.pdf
Aug 15 23:21:59 <nox-> anyway my theory is the headphone amp may not particularly like low impedance...
Aug 15 23:22:21 <nox-> there are headphones with 16 ohms and there are ones with 64...
Aug 15 23:22:37 <nox-> and other values are possible too
Aug 15 23:23:16 <jani> both =)
Aug 15 23:24:26 <jani> but the headphones that came with n900 do have a mic on the cable .. like "hands free" sort of stuff and that signal has to go in from somewhere.
Aug 15 23:24:57 <nox-> hm ok
Aug 15 23:25:15 <nox-> so where does the composite out come from on the av cable?
Aug 15 23:25:31 <DocScrutinizer> mic ring
Aug 15 23:25:34 <DocScrutinizer> dual use
Aug 15 23:25:38 <nox-> ah ok
Aug 15 23:25:43 <DangerMaus> hmm tiny hole ont the volume switch
Aug 15 23:26:02 <DocScrutinizer> headphone amp is a D-type with 15R series. Should work even with 8R headphones
Aug 15 23:26:23 <nox-> hm ok
Aug 15 23:26:59 * nox- wonders where those distortions then came from
Aug 15 23:27:20 <DocScrutinizer> but maybe some headphones are just too poor efficiency to give a good loud clear audio, without clipping
Aug 15 23:27:54 <nox-> i think those particular ones came from an old ipod...
Aug 15 23:28:01 <DocScrutinizer> or they can't take the bass that N900 is capable to drive to them
Aug 15 23:28:09 <nox-> heh
Aug 15 23:28:35 <DocScrutinizer> D-type is down to 0Hz +-0dBm
Aug 15 23:28:37 <DangerMaus> thats actualy funny
Aug 15 23:28:51 <DocScrutinizer> DangerMaus: there you are :-P
Aug 15 23:29:14 <DangerMaus> im rite her
Aug 15 23:29:21 * DangerMaus waves
Aug 15 23:29:34 <DocScrutinizer> http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/
Aug 15 23:29:37 <DocScrutinizer> DangerMaus: ^^
Aug 15 23:30:00 <DangerMaus> ahh
Aug 15 23:30:34 <DangerMaus> prob ran outta power yesterday
Aug 15 23:31:40 <DocScrutinizer> DangerMaus: g-meter - I doubt. Sounds more like troubled touchscreen
Aug 15 23:32:07 <DangerMaus> awww crap
Aug 15 23:32:28 <DangerMaus> least there under 500 now
Aug 15 23:32:43 <DocScrutinizer> touchpanel is ~60EUR
Aug 15 23:32:58 <DangerMaus> what? link?
Aug 15 23:33:03 <DocScrutinizer> without new protector :-P
Aug 15 23:33:11 <DangerMaus> or take it to nokia?
Aug 15 23:33:13 <DocScrutinizer> *sigh* moment please
Aug 15 23:33:21 <DocScrutinizer> take it to nokia anyway
Aug 15 23:33:28 <DangerMaus> eeeek
Aug 15 23:33:48 <DangerMaus> not see baby for weeks prob
Aug 15 23:34:53 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900/N900-TOUCH-WINDOW-ASSY-2691V9-
Aug 15 23:35:05 <DangerMaus> though next geuss was check touchscreen connector
Aug 15 23:36:57 <DangerMaus> that seems too cheep
Aug 15 23:37:03 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4369_Original-Nokia-N900-A-Cover-Touchscreen.html
Aug 15 23:37:16 <DangerMaus> thoujght thats €
Aug 15 23:38:41 <DocScrutinizer> DangerMaus: has your 'screen' a ditch/spot/other damage?
Aug 15 23:39:15 <DangerMaus> docscrutinizer we having issues with the touchscreeens in general or just the ones that have been dropped?
Aug 15 23:39:46 <DocScrutinizer> dropped makes a good story for cause of such problem
Aug 15 23:40:31 <DangerMaus> heh lol minor scratch on right edgemetal
Aug 15 23:41:01 <DocScrutinizer> deformed?
Aug 15 23:41:05 <DangerMaus> screen surface is fine
Aug 15 23:41:10 <DangerMaus> no
Aug 15 23:41:12 <DocScrutinizer> 1mm is enough
Aug 15 23:41:22 <DangerMaus> christ
Aug 15 23:41:26 <DangerMaus> no
Aug 15 23:41:33 <DangerMaus> surface
Aug 15 23:41:55 <DocScrutinizer> does it 'click' when doing unsolicited stuff? like touchscreen click?
Aug 15 23:42:21 <DangerMaus> picture riunning sand paper or fine file across metal
Aug 15 23:42:44 <DangerMaus> sometimes
Aug 15 23:43:11 <DangerMaus> when i want it to do it it wont
Aug 15 23:43:16 <DocScrutinizer> full reflash - check - take to nokia for repair
Aug 15 23:43:43 <DocScrutinizer> might be warranty
Aug 15 23:43:45 <DangerMaus> crap got it the way i want it finnaly
Aug 15 23:43:58 <DocScrutinizer> do a decent backup :-P
Aug 15 23:44:22 <DangerMaus> be a year dec 1 i think
Aug 15 23:44:38 <DocScrutinizer> europe?
Aug 15 23:44:42 <DangerMaus> usa
Aug 15 23:44:46 <DocScrutinizer> :-/
Aug 15 23:45:12 <DangerMaus> got a nokia store close but prob clueless
Aug 15 23:45:19 <DocScrutinizer> bet
Aug 15 23:45:32 <DocScrutinizer> they'll send in
Aug 15 23:45:40 <DocScrutinizer> anyway try it
Aug 15 23:46:04 <DocScrutinizer> no idea how things get handled in USA
Aug 15 23:46:23 <DangerMaus> hmmm what to buy for interm?
Aug 15 23:46:39 <DocScrutinizer> a second one ? :-D
Aug 15 23:47:04 <DangerMaus> could survive with somethimg  wit bt act as modem
Aug 15 23:47:16 <DangerMaus> with  old 770
Aug 15 23:48:45 <DangerMaus> just started playing with pc suit and eepc ran outta battery  no charger for it withme
Aug 15 23:49:10 <DangerMaus> having crappy weekend
Aug 15 23:49:23 <DocScrutinizer> eeeh! pc
Aug 15 23:57:02 <DangerMaus> thats it i cant take it anymore time to make a bootable flashdrive with gentoo min install onoit
Aug 16 00:03:08 <zeltak> jani: DocScrutinizer: thx i meant obviously the one with the call button and music playbacl control
Aug 16 00:04:21 <zeltak> i got one with the n97 and wondered if the n900 ships with one as well
Aug 16 00:05:50 <DocScrutinizer> music control doesn't work with N900 for all I know
Aug 16 00:07:05 <DocScrutinizer> I tried to investigate a  bit, to find out about phy protocol they are using e.g. on N95, but wasn't able to get any meaningful results with N900 AV circuit
Aug 16 00:08:01 <DocScrutinizer> also probing of that N95 compatible multibutton headset I borrowed from a friend didn't yield any results that could make sense to me
Aug 16 00:09:44 <zeltak> gotcha..k thx DocScrutinizer
Aug 16 00:09:54 <DocScrutinizer> so unless I get hold of either a headset schematics, or a N95 schematics, or a generic spec for that protocol - for me that's w wontfix
Aug 16 00:10:07 <zeltak> i see
Aug 16 00:10:21 <zeltak> thx for the info  :)
Aug 16 00:10:26 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Aug 16 00:11:55 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, did you hear the interference caused by pushing buttons on it?
Aug 16 00:12:04 <DocScrutinizer> nuttin
Aug 16 00:12:07 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
Aug 16 00:13:48 <ShadowJK> did it work with n95?
Aug 16 00:14:40 <DocScrutinizer> probing mic ring with low voltage ohm-meter gave me break/infinite on correct polarity, and a digitalish jump from some 2k to break/infinite on reverse polarity (+ on sleve/GND)
Aug 16 00:15:05 <DocScrutinizer> sore it works with N95, my friend is using it all the time
Aug 16 00:15:12 <DocScrutinizer> sure*
Aug 16 00:15:37 <ShadowJK> did you yourself test it with a working device though?
Aug 16 00:16:03 * ShadowJK only hears the interference when plugged into devices it works with
Aug 16 00:16:10 <DocScrutinizer> I might throw together/solder  some extension adapter with probe contacts and see what the signals look like on N95
Aug 16 00:16:46 <DocScrutinizer> nope, I myself never used such headset on a device it's working with
Aug 16 00:17:41 <ShadowJK> set volume to one step above muted, the clicking dit-dt-dit-dat thing is in the background of the music
Aug 16 00:18:11 <DocScrutinizer> but for that adapter approach I'd either need a N95 or a storage scope, so I could do all the needed tests in <15min
Aug 16 00:19:05 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that however would mean the stereo-out path is somewhat involved
Aug 16 00:19:45 <DocScrutinizer> which pretty much complicates things for N900, if not making the whole issue unfeasible
Aug 16 00:20:57 <DocScrutinizer> my probing anyway gave no indication for direct pathes from stereo-out to mic contact
Aug 16 00:24:04 <DocScrutinizer> I'd guess we have a high-impedance digital one wire transmission here, over mic contact. Like when pushing a button, the headset shorts mic to GND for a period x, then waits for micbias to clock for shifting out next bit same way. Duration of period xmakes for the 1s and 0s
Aug 16 00:24:29 <DocScrutinizer> this however *could* be done with N900
Aug 16 00:25:03 <DocScrutinizer> it's just I don't see how exactly it should interfere with musin on stereo-out
Aug 16 00:25:12 <DocScrutinizer> music*
Aug 16 00:26:30 <DocScrutinizer> also I of course did recording tests via headset mic, to detect such serial pulses, at least a single click when pushing a button -> nuttin
Aug 16 00:27:40 <DocScrutinizer> maybe I wasn't able to distinguish the digital clicks from the noise of pressing the keys inside the same case that holds the mic
Aug 16 00:36:53 <DocScrutinizer> if anybody was willing to investigate, and got a scope of any sort and a N9x plus such media controller headset: The adapter is pretty simple, a 3.5mm 4pole male to female wire thru 1:1, except a series 47R in mic wire. Then probe 2chan (voltage mic to gnd, 1V/div, trigger falling slope ) and (voltage across 47R, 10mV/div), DC coupled, with X=1..50ms/div, while pressing different keys
Aug 16 00:39:08 <DocScrutinizer> make a screenshot and let me know where to watch it
Aug 16 00:39:16 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, if I had a scope I would play
Aug 16 00:39:34 * lcuk ponders and trundles to bed
Aug 16 00:39:49 <DocScrutinizer> n8 lcuk :-D
Aug 16 00:59:05 <zeltak> ok had it with mail for exchange...never works..does any one sync contacts with google/thunderbird/other? and if so how?
Aug 16 01:03:57 <celesteh> zeltak: i use nueavasync
Aug 16 01:04:23 <celesteh> zeltak: http://nuevasync.com/
Aug 16 01:04:48 <celesteh> it's free, and it handles calendar stuff correctly also
Aug 16 01:05:09 <zeltak> cool thx celesteh ill check it out now
Aug 16 01:16:30 <ieatlint> people in the US using the n900 may be interested in this: http://groups.google.com/group/tmoipv6beta?pli=1 (tmobile is running a beta test for ipv6 over their data network)
Aug 16 01:18:37 <ieatlint> hrm, note i was just sent that from a friend, but i am suddenly questioning the authenticity of it, as nothing seems to point back to tmobile officially that i see
Aug 16 01:22:03 <DangerMaus> whats up Doc?
Aug 16 01:24:26 <DangerMaus>  ooooo just figg'd that if i hold a key it shifts to the Fn key just nother way to do it
Aug 16 01:35:34 <xnt14[N900]> hi, in R&D mode, what do the flashing keyboard leds mean?
Aug 16 01:36:17 <SpeedEvil> it's CPU state
Aug 16 01:36:28 <SpeedEvil> suspend and idle I think
Aug 16 01:36:41 <xnt14[N900]> SpeedEvil, which one? what does each led mean?
Aug 16 01:36:50 <SpeedEvil> I don't recall.
Aug 16 01:37:01 <xnt14[N900]> hmm
Aug 16 01:37:35 <xnt14[N900]> didn't see anything on the wiki
Aug 16 01:39:13 <xnt14[N900]> any one else know?
Aug 16 01:39:14 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic gives you the pins they connect to, you could then google the kernel.
Aug 16 01:39:21 <xnt14[N900]> hmm
Aug 16 01:39:27 <xnt14[N900]> SpeedEvil, k
Aug 16 01:39:29 <SpeedEvil> It doesn't matter.
Aug 16 01:39:37 <SpeedEvil> There is nothing beneficial.
Aug 16 01:39:42 <SpeedEvil> Over using powertop
Aug 16 01:40:23 <SpeedEvil> And indeed power consumption is lots worse due to the LEDs
Aug 16 01:40:31 <luke-jr> ieatlint: IPv6 is required for 4G
Aug 16 01:40:34 <xnt14[N900]> SpeedEvil, I was just curious...
Aug 16 01:50:59 <chi> okay so vfat on the sd did not seem to work
Aug 16 01:51:10 <chi> or at least i can't see the music i put on it from the n900
Aug 16 01:52:25 * nox- doubts thats bc of vfat...
Aug 16 01:52:35 <luke-jr> ieatlint: I'd try it, but T-Mobile doesn't allow N900 on prepaid data ;)
Aug 16 01:52:47 <nox-> wow
Aug 16 01:52:53 * nox- has prepaid here
Aug 16 01:53:00 <nox-> on tmobile notwork
Aug 16 01:55:13 <luke-jr> nox-: here = ?
Aug 16 01:55:20 <nox-> .de
Aug 16 01:56:51 <luke-jr> i c
Aug 16 01:57:01 * luke-jr wouldn't move to .de for data
Aug 16 01:57:07 <nox-> hehe
Aug 16 01:57:25 <luke-jr> actually, I can't think of *anything* I would move to .de for
Aug 16 01:57:56 <luke-jr> probably why i'm not there
Aug 16 01:57:58 <luke-jr> lol
Aug 16 01:58:10 <nox-> you're in u.s.?
Aug 16 01:59:37 <luke-jr> Nebraska
Aug 16 01:59:43 <nox-> ah
Aug 16 02:12:51 * SpeedEvil pays $5/mo for 1G/mo on t-mobile prepaid data.
Aug 16 02:12:55 <SpeedEvil> (UK though)
Aug 16 02:13:55 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: yeah, over here, they don't offer it at all except for Hiptop devices
Aug 16 02:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> t-mo US seems thoroughly nasty wrt plans and conditions. Well US customers even accept the idea of being charged for inbound calls
Aug 16 02:14:53 <DocScrutinizer> and wtf are hiptop devices?
Aug 16 02:14:56 <nox-> SpeedEvil, well thats certainly better than here...
Aug 16 02:14:59 <nox-> bbl
Aug 16 02:15:25 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: not sure, some T-Mobile custom thing?
Aug 16 02:15:31 <luke-jr> I think it has another name now
Aug 16 02:15:56 <DocScrutinizer> I read that as hiphop
Aug 16 02:16:08 <nox-> iirc its a primitive tablet device
Aug 16 02:16:15 <DocScrutinizer> which doesn't make it any better
Aug 16 02:16:25 <nox-> *nod*
Aug 16 02:17:53 <DocScrutinizer> probably in USA as a carrier you could tell your customers you just invented internet new, and they may get it by just paying premium
Aug 16 02:18:51 <DangerMaus> hiptop? like bend gf over use as desk?
Aug 16 02:19:42 <nox-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiptop
Aug 16 02:20:57 <dmj726> the sad part is tmo is comparatively less nasty than certain other us carriers
Aug 16 02:21:05 <DangerMaus> ooo k
Aug 16 02:21:34 <DangerMaus> tmo sofar so good
Aug 16 02:22:15 <DangerMaus> and ive places i shouldnt have service ratherdata and had it
Aug 16 02:22:23 <dmj726> ...Verizon wants to charge you to connect your laptop to your phone.
Aug 16 02:22:45 <DangerMaus> most did or do
Aug 16 02:22:55 <HiDaren> hi, all
Aug 16 02:22:57 <dmj726> Haven't had that with TMO
Aug 16 02:22:58 <DangerMaus> this was a way around it
Aug 16 02:23:13 <dmj726> either that or it's just the n900
Aug 16 02:23:34 <rm_you> it *is8 hiphop, isn't it?
Aug 16 02:23:37 <rm_you> *is*
Aug 16 02:23:58 <HiDaren> are there any developers in here?
Aug 16 02:24:05 <nox-> the tablet?  hiptop
Aug 16 02:24:19 <dmj726> correction: are there *many* developers here
Aug 16 02:24:21 <DangerMaus> bellieltop here
Aug 16 02:25:10 <DangerMaus> dj726 sometimes
Aug 16 02:25:15 <nox-> anyway im off
Aug 16 02:25:20 <HiDaren> correction: are there any developers in here who can help me get started with esbox?
Aug 16 02:25:26 <dmj726> ah
Aug 16 02:25:33 <dmj726> what OS are you on?
Aug 16 02:25:58 <DangerMaus> oops  *
Aug 16 02:26:00 <HiDaren> i have the maemosdk virtual image set up and running....
Aug 16 02:26:11 <DocScrutinizer> blaergh - what an ugly collection of devices :-P
Aug 16 02:27:08 <ieatlint> luke-jr: yeah, i signed up... although i am admittedly still skeptical as no where on that page does it reference anything official
Aug 16 02:27:08 <dmj726> esbox does foul things on modern ubuntu
Aug 16 02:27:17 <ieatlint> it sounds legit...
Aug 16 02:27:33 <ieatlint> figured the worse that happens is some spammer got my email and phone number
Aug 16 02:27:59 <HiDaren> it is ubuntu 9.1
Aug 16 02:28:11 <dmj726> 9.10 should work fine
Aug 16 02:28:13 <ieatlint> and $5/gb for data? i'm getting hurt terribly with my unlimited data
Aug 16 02:28:20 <dmj726> are you running it from esbox.sh?
Aug 16 02:28:21 * GeneralAntilles put together a nice rant for an mwkn summary, but realized the title didn't match the link. . . .
Aug 16 02:28:23 <ieatlint> $25/mo... completely bullshit
Aug 16 02:28:54 <luke-jr> ieatlint: normal US monthly unlimited data is $10/mo
Aug 16 02:28:58 <DangerMaus> ieatlint what carrier?
Aug 16 02:29:02 <luke-jr> $25/mo only gets you special content crap
Aug 16 02:29:03 <ieatlint> tmobile
Aug 16 02:29:09 <HiDaren> i have the hello world app compling..  just dont know how to run it in the local emulator
Aug 16 02:29:13 <ieatlint> hmm, let me go double check tmo's site :)
Aug 16 02:29:21 <dmj726> well they usually try to charge smartphone users 25
Aug 16 02:29:29 <dmj726> oh
Aug 16 02:29:36 <dmj726> there's a button on the menu for that
Aug 16 02:29:56 <dmj726> looks like the maemo logo
Aug 16 02:30:00 <DangerMaus> tmo says they have a like 8gig soft cat but they havent killed me yet
Aug 16 02:30:12 <DangerMaus> *cap
Aug 16 02:30:21 <ieatlint> i'm impressed you're using 8gb...
Aug 16 02:30:37 <DangerMaus> just once
Aug 16 02:30:39 <HiDaren> i can run the emulator from the icon, but cannot get my app from esbox to run it
Aug 16 02:30:45 <luke-jr> 8 GB is nothing
Aug 16 02:30:52 <dmj726> any error messages?
Aug 16 02:30:56 <DangerMaus> laptop through phone
Aug 16 02:31:13 <ieatlint> i'm actually getting boned by tmobile pretty bad right now.. my bill is $220/mo
Aug 16 02:31:19 <luke-jr> 56k is over 17 GB/mo
Aug 16 02:31:32 <dmj726> wow how is it that high?
Aug 16 02:32:14 <DangerMaus> i wanna say i got 500m voice unlimited txt data somethimg else
Aug 16 02:32:48 <ieatlint> family plan with 4 lines
Aug 16 02:33:02 <DangerMaus> its like 60$
Aug 16 02:33:09 <DangerMaus> ahh
Aug 16 02:34:17 <dmj726> family plan with 4 lines on tmo should be like half that
Aug 16 02:34:19 <DangerMaus> all my hardware  though there damn sms spam is annoyimg
Aug 16 02:35:21 <DangerMaus> dmj726 they degrade prices again?
Aug 16 02:35:40 <dmj726> you looked at the even more plus plans?
Aug 16 02:36:17 <DangerMaus> ithink that me or i just +
Aug 16 02:37:07 <ieatlint> lcuk: so i'm curious here.. you say data is just $10/mo; tmo says that's for non-smartphones, but i'm getting the impression that doesn't actually matter?
Aug 16 02:37:30 <dmj726> an n900 will run just fine on the $10 plan
Aug 16 02:37:36 <luke-jr> ieatlint: $25/mo includes "value services" or some crap
Aug 16 02:37:42 <ieatlint> bah, fucking tmobile
Aug 16 02:38:14 <dmj726> but you might not want to show them your phone if you want the $10 rate (or show them a $10 prepaid phone that you want to convert)
Aug 16 02:38:51 <DangerMaus> dont need other crap with this all built in chang what you want independant of carrier
Aug 16 02:39:10 <ieatlint> dmj726: hmm, ok, i seriously need to give tmobile a car
Aug 16 02:39:12 <ieatlint> call
Aug 16 02:39:13 <ieatlint> blah
Aug 16 02:39:43 <dmj726> keep your car :P
Aug 16 02:40:42 <DangerMaus> they said it dont matter just dont give them the what is it eeid#? they dont need it
Aug 16 02:41:21 <ieatlint> yeah, i'm going to assume they're far too lazy to check the IMEIs i use
Aug 16 02:41:37 <DangerMaus> yeah that
Aug 16 02:43:08 <DangerMaus> i jump fones sometimes it this will be in harms way theyve nvr called me on diff imei's
Aug 16 02:44:40 <DangerMaus> att gave my sister ogreif for that
Aug 16 02:44:48 <ieatlint> for changing phones?
Aug 16 02:45:03 <ieatlint> or for using a dataplan intended for old wap-based phones on a smartphone?
Aug 16 02:45:20 <DangerMaus> yeah popping  the sim in somethimg else
Aug 16 02:45:26 <ieatlint> tmobile i know doesn't give a fuck if you change phones every day..
Aug 16 02:45:33 <ieatlint> they'll even provide basic support
Aug 16 02:45:47 <DangerMaus> yep
Aug 16 02:45:52 <ieatlint> but they can use the IMEI to look up what model phone it is was my point
Aug 16 02:46:16 <ieatlint> basically test if you're bullshitting them on the smartphone thing (not that the data usage wouldn't tell the story)
Aug 16 02:46:55 <luke-jr> if it comes down to it, we could start a class action lawsuit possibly
Aug 16 02:47:00 <luke-jr> or maybe just report them, I don't know
Aug 16 02:47:02 <DangerMaus> crap i was in chicago messing with a phone without a sim not realzing it called 911 when i pushed send messimgwith it
Aug 16 02:47:45 <HiDaren> when i have to call my cell company, i just keep an old blackberry handy
Aug 16 02:47:57 <DangerMaus> put it on counter went to store found cops and fire when i got back
Aug 16 02:48:06 <ieatlint> luke-jr: net neutrality doesn't exist on the law books :P
Aug 16 02:48:13 <luke-jr> ieatlint: device neutrality does
Aug 16 02:48:46 <luke-jr> or at least the FCC regulations
Aug 16 02:48:51 <ieatlint> only with regards to locks on the phone i think, not with the service
Aug 16 02:49:03 <luke-jr> service providers aren't allowed to discriminate between FCC-approved devices
Aug 16 02:49:15 <luke-jr> that is, as long as the FCC has approved it, it's allowed
Aug 16 02:49:40 <DangerMaus> but they dont bother telling the consumer that
Aug 16 02:50:06 <ieatlint> that's a novel concept, but i'm afraid i'm skeptical of taking uncited legal advice from irc ;)
Aug 16 02:50:08 <luke-jr> that's why cable companies have to allow you to buy your own cable modem from someone else
Aug 16 02:50:20 <luke-jr> otherwise they'd just force you to rent it from them
Aug 16 02:50:26 <luke-jr> and they did, until someone threw the book at them
Aug 16 02:50:38 <luke-jr> also, it isn't legal advice ☺
Aug 16 02:52:12 <ieatlint> well my point was that it's possible me bullshitting tmobile could result in them finding out a year from now and seeking to collect lost money... you're telling me that if they even tried to do anything, FCC regulations would protect me
Aug 16 02:52:16 <ieatlint> sounds like legal advice
Aug 16 02:52:46 <TermanaN900> recover lost money? that sounds like garbage
Aug 16 02:52:58 <luke-jr> ieatlint: nah, I was just suggesting a lawsuit if they get bad about it :p
Aug 16 02:53:00 <HiDaren> sounds like something they'd try though
Aug 16 02:53:12 <luke-jr> and prepaid is prepaid ;)
Aug 16 02:53:15 <luke-jr> that's the whole point of it
Aug 16 02:53:35 <DangerMaus> it just works
Aug 16 02:53:44 <HiDaren> i got a bill from my bell because they said i was using teathering but it was just my n900 :)
Aug 16 02:53:50 <luke-jr> wait, you're not using prepaid, nm
Aug 16 02:53:51 <ieatlint> i'll somehow bet the prepaid user agreement says you may be liable for additional charges
Aug 16 02:53:53 <HiDaren> they backbilled for 6 months
Aug 16 02:54:02 <DangerMaus> easy no credi dept to pay
Aug 16 02:54:10 <ieatlint> yeah, i'm on postpaid
Aug 16 02:54:11 <HiDaren> but they also fixed it after 6 or 7 phone calls
Aug 16 02:54:21 <TermanaN900> sometimes im wish i was a US citizen. And then i remember this crap, and am thankful im an Australia citizen.
Aug 16 02:54:27 <TermanaN900> I wish*
Aug 16 02:54:30 <luke-jr> ieatlint: how would that work, seeing as T-Mobile doesn't even have my name or address?
Aug 16 02:55:00 <luke-jr> HiDaren: technically speaking, N900 *is* tethered
Aug 16 02:55:03 <ieatlint> luke-jr: well, some people register that with tmo.. :P
Aug 16 02:55:19 <ieatlint> but yeah, there's no way you could ever do anywhere near enough damage to make it worth tracking you down
Aug 16 02:55:20 <HiDaren> luke: heh heh
Aug 16 02:55:35 <ieatlint> if they can't simply send you an invoice and then forward it to a collections agency, they won't bother to touch you
Aug 16 02:55:43 <luke-jr> ieatlint: before I setup data, I used DNS tunnelling to bypass their walled garden
Aug 16 02:55:57 <DangerMaus> where your bill go auto-pay?
Aug 16 02:55:57 <luke-jr> rather than even call my cell, they just blocked my endpoint -.-
Aug 16 02:56:03 <ieatlint> that's low man.. that shit is slow :P
Aug 16 02:56:12 <ieatlint> and data is already high latency
Aug 16 02:56:15 <luke-jr> lol
Aug 16 02:56:20 <luke-jr> it was just for fun
Aug 16 02:56:25 <luke-jr> but now I can't lookup my domain ☹
Aug 16 02:56:31 <ieatlint> lol
Aug 16 02:56:42 <luke-jr> ieatlint: wanna try for me from another state? :P
Aug 16 02:56:45 <luke-jr> http://dashjr.org
Aug 16 02:57:04 <luke-jr> (I know you're in another state cuz T-Mobile claims they have no service in Nebraksa…)
Aug 16 02:57:04 <ieatlint> as in do a dns lookup?
Aug 16 02:57:08 <luke-jr> ieatlint: yeah
Aug 16 02:57:18 <luke-jr> see if they blocked it nationally or just regionally
Aug 16 02:57:28 <ieatlint> dashjr.org has address 173.242.112.53 dashjr.org has IPv6 address 2001:470:88ff:2e::1
Aug 16 02:57:33 <ieatlint> and 3 mx records
Aug 16 02:57:34 <luke-jr> cool
Aug 16 02:57:37 <ieatlint> oh, wait
Aug 16 02:57:38 <luke-jr> that was via T-Mo, right?
Aug 16 02:57:40 <ieatlint> you mean on the phone
Aug 16 02:57:43 <luke-jr> …duh
Aug 16 02:57:43 <ieatlint> hehe, one sec
Aug 16 02:58:14 <ieatlint> yeah, the ipv4 A record came up over edge
Aug 16 02:58:23 <luke-jr> cool
Aug 16 02:58:35 <luke-jr> good to know I didn't disrupt my site in any meaningful way
Aug 16 02:58:48 <luke-jr> since T-Mo won't sell to NE, nobody will be affected XD
Aug 16 02:58:57 <ieatlint> you may want to lock down your dns server more :P
Aug 16 02:59:00 * luke-jr had a friend in Kansas City mail him a SIM card
Aug 16 02:59:04 <luke-jr> ieatlint: why?
Aug 16 02:59:13 <ieatlint> that is, if you care that i can dump your entire confirguation for that domain
Aug 16 02:59:16 <luke-jr> so?
Aug 16 02:59:25 <luke-jr> it's all public info anyway
Aug 16 02:59:28 <luke-jr> that's what DNS is for
Aug 16 02:59:29 * ieatlint shrugs
Aug 16 02:59:37 <ieatlint> some people care about keeping subdomains more private
Aug 16 02:59:54 <DangerMaus> yepyep
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 16 02:59:56 2010