**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 17 02:59:57 2010 Aug 17 03:00:10 you know what .... i will post an ebay auction for $1 for my N900... just to show you that I'm not lyuing Aug 17 03:00:21 … Aug 17 03:00:25 5 Aug 17 03:00:29 DocScrutinizer: who are you dude? Aug 17 03:00:29 4 Aug 17 03:00:31 that would go for $300 or so I bet Aug 17 03:00:33 N900dude: what were you hoping to get when you ordered yours? Aug 17 03:00:34 3 Aug 17 03:00:38 2 Aug 17 03:00:41 1 Aug 17 03:00:54 hey, you said kick not ban Aug 17 03:00:59 I'll vote he get another chance :P Aug 17 03:01:05 funny how the most response he gets is when he offers to give the device out Aug 17 03:01:05 k Aug 17 03:01:13 ieatlint: haha true Aug 17 03:01:35 I just wish the offer were real :P Aug 17 03:01:39 luke-jr: honestly? Aug 17 03:01:55 DocScrutinizer: shrug. Aug 17 03:02:05 wb Aug 17 03:02:22 hello peeps Aug 17 03:02:29 or is that another "dude"? :P Aug 17 03:02:46 found that change nick command, eh? Aug 17 03:02:52 why was i banned ? Aug 17 03:03:04 you're not banned now Aug 17 03:03:15 don't you even read this chan, just troll? Aug 17 03:03:35 no....can we please have a constructive conversation? Aug 17 03:03:39 he asked why he was, not why he is Aug 17 03:03:43 … Aug 17 03:03:52 anyway, maybe someone can suggest a device for you if you tell us what need or expect from a device Aug 17 03:04:16 maybe you missed it Aug 17 03:04:18 [2010-08-17 04:59:12] N900dude: either you stop this negative useless statements immediately, or find at least 5 chan users to vote for you, or get kicked in a second Aug 17 03:04:25 just in case Aug 17 03:04:34 no.... i dont want iphone or android... i want to know why phone functionality on n900 is fucked up and how to fix it Aug 17 03:04:50 whats wrong with it? Aug 17 03:04:50 how is it fucked up? Aug 17 03:04:54 N900dude_: so you don't want a phone? Aug 17 03:04:59 not working? or just awkward to use in your preference? Aug 17 03:05:03 i want both Aug 17 03:05:11 phone platforms are Symbian, iPhone, and Android Aug 17 03:05:29 i want maemo/meego Aug 17 03:05:39 well you have it.. so..? Aug 17 03:06:16 N900dude_: you want something that can be a good phone AND a good handheld computer? Aug 17 03:06:26 yes Aug 17 03:06:28 no such device exists today. sorry. Aug 17 03:06:31 n900 aint it Aug 17 03:06:32 let me know if you find one Aug 17 03:06:41 * lpotter wonders whats wrong with the phone functionality Aug 17 03:06:49 * DocScrutinizer as well Aug 17 03:06:51 lpotter: lag at least Aug 17 03:06:59 lag? Aug 17 03:07:01 takes a good 5 seconds or so to answer calls Aug 17 03:07:02 etc Aug 17 03:07:09 lol, not here Aug 17 03:07:12 not on my phone Aug 17 03:07:15 maybe on gentoo Aug 17 03:07:19 rotation is a coin flip too Aug 17 03:07:26 DocScrutinizer: no, I don't do calls on Gentoo yet Aug 17 03:07:27 ☺ Aug 17 03:07:39 built Telepathy, but not an actual UI yet Aug 17 03:07:47 the problems I find with the phone stuff is that it's a bit awkward to access it compared to a phone, but that's to be expected. apart from that, when someone phones me, the interface might lag, taking >5 secs before I am able to respond to it Aug 17 03:07:58 most of the delay is the stupid rotation crap though, so Gentoo should be fine Aug 17 03:08:21 and also, sometimes the screen goes black just as I try to press the green button on the screen, not sure why it does that, but it's annoying as well :p Aug 17 03:08:35 Funnyface: proxmity? Aug 17 03:08:35 that's what I can come up with. Aug 17 03:08:44 hmm, two users complaining about >5s lag on accepting phonecalls, 2 users WFM... There's something... Aug 17 03:09:01 DocScrutinizer: does your N900 rotate to portrait on incoming calls? Aug 17 03:09:05 today i missed yet another phone call because of how n900 handles voice calls Aug 17 03:09:17 usually, though granted it's sometimes jerky Aug 17 03:09:22 luke-jr: yeah, it's stupid that they made it that way I mean :P Aug 17 03:09:40 DocScrutinizer: that process usually takes 5 seconds or so Aug 17 03:09:49 DocScrutinizer: I also have Maemo configured to *never* rotate to portrait Aug 17 03:09:50 5s lag probably happens when its swapping? Aug 17 03:09:54 go figure why it insists on it Aug 17 03:10:00 nox-: Maemo is *always* swapping… Aug 17 03:10:06 heh Aug 17 03:10:17 well, swapping more than usual then Aug 17 03:10:41 luke-jr: when I set it to no autorotation, it does exactly that Aug 17 03:11:04 DocScrutinizer: it does that for me maybe 50% of the time I make outbound calls Aug 17 03:11:13 and lag on autorotation is - in my book - due to g-meter smoothing things Aug 17 03:11:22 speaking of swapping, will the swapping eventually wear out the memory of the device, or does it last for so long that the write cycles of it are insignificant? Aug 17 03:11:50 g-meter? Aug 17 03:11:55 Funnyface: just forget about wear Aug 17 03:12:05 Funnyface: apparently the CPU will go first Aug 17 03:12:11 g like acceleration Aug 17 03:12:14 hmm Aug 17 03:12:27 Funnyface: also, Maemo will barf if you put swap on external ☹ Aug 17 03:12:35 i see on tmo there's more people with the same issue Aug 17 03:12:37 which I'd love to do just for the added speed Aug 17 03:13:24 heard you can customize transitions Aug 17 03:13:52 bbl Aug 17 03:13:54 notably, Gentoo with the Maemo kernel can handle external swap fine Aug 17 03:14:00 never felt like being urged to do ut... but if you like to have a look, it's documented somewhere Aug 17 03:14:02 no idea how Maemo userland screws it up Aug 17 03:14:54 luke-jr: what external? uSD? Aug 17 03:15:01 DocScrutinizer: MicroSD Aug 17 03:15:06 o_O gentoo on n900? compiling that much on the wimpy cpu? Aug 17 03:15:12 you think it's so much faster? Aug 17 03:15:14 nox-: I have Gentoo on my N810 too Aug 17 03:15:22 DocScrutinizer: it's slightly faster at least Aug 17 03:15:22 wow Aug 17 03:15:29 slightly, yes Aug 17 03:15:32 N900dude_: I was never happy about that bit either, but I don't rag down on the entire device only because of that.. simply because.. 1.. it's only an added bonus that it can do that on top of the other features, it's after all not a "phone".. 2. it's an otherwise great device Aug 17 03:15:36 N810 is busy upgrading KDE to 4.4.5 tho Aug 17 03:16:40 Funnyface: why not just set to "autototate off; portrait mode" and then worry about more serious things? Aug 17 03:17:14 luke-jr, how many days for that? :) Aug 17 03:17:58 DocScrutinizer: because it's not something I worry too much about, I am just saying that N900dude has some valid points that I agree on. Aug 17 03:18:35 btw, the g-meter may get confused - on unknown reason - in a way it is seriously decalibrated and of course doesn't do correct orientation reading anymore. Due to nature of the circuit it seems, you need to remove battery to reset it Aug 17 03:19:49 had that one time - ~0.5g offset on one axis Aug 17 03:20:03 luke-jr, suggest you also dump /proc/meminfo Aug 17 03:20:07 others reported similar problems Aug 17 03:20:43 lol Aug 17 03:21:07 lol? Aug 17 03:21:19 ^^ Aug 17 03:23:36 here's the deal...phone functionality worked a little better for me on 1.1 ...it was still fucked up but at least i didnt miss any important calls...on 1.2 i miss calls all the time... it IS a big deal for some despite of some linux geeks discounting the problem Aug 17 03:24:25 luke-jr, it only barfs because this particular version of the kernel has a bug in vfat. Try make a uSD with a swap partition, that works fine Aug 17 03:24:49 nox-: dunno, I don't keep track Aug 17 03:24:56 And it's actually faster. However, the biggest reason why is that it's one less task for the emmc to deal with Aug 17 03:24:59 ShadowJK: /proc/meminfo isn't diffable Aug 17 03:25:11 ShadowJK: my MicroSD swap is a partition Aug 17 03:25:19 it doesn't work fine, it panics Aug 17 03:25:25 WFM Aug 17 03:25:27 :p Aug 17 03:25:35 works for me for hours, but eventually panics Aug 17 03:25:48 interesting Aug 17 03:25:52 How big is it? Aug 17 03:26:20 1 GB IIRC Aug 17 03:30:45 someone i would think that swap on µsd would be slower than on the mtd, and use up more bandwidth on the system bus that could lag other things Aug 17 03:31:28 well you can't run swap on the mtd Aug 17 03:31:45 And the raw speed of it is less than that of emmc or a class 6 uSD c ard Aug 17 03:32:01 or atleast some benchmarks said that Aug 17 03:32:53 ieatlint: eMMC and external MicroSD are the same bus Aug 17 03:33:05 and you can get faster MicroSD than the eMMC Aug 17 03:33:16 well, i clearly thought wrong then :) Aug 17 03:33:37 swap on nand? Nand is not that huge, no? Aug 17 03:33:50 NAND is tiny Aug 17 03:34:11 And without a new driver it'd be dead slow anyway.. Aug 17 03:34:30 yep, and due to the small size, wear will be way higher Aug 17 03:34:59 DocScrutinizer: MMC/SD wear levelling is only within a 1024-block range anyway Aug 17 03:35:09 let aside insane wear multiplier caused by MMC blocksize Aug 17 03:37:18 anyway, luke-jr could you investigate what's wrong with that autorotation thing. The disabling of it to be precise Aug 17 03:37:32 DocScrutinizer: no clue how, and it doesn't bother me that much… Aug 17 03:38:07 nah, me as well Aug 17 03:38:10 WFM Aug 17 03:39:18 autorotate is a kind of annoyance due to unpredictable lag until it triggers, otherwise no lag on inbound calls, whatever kind Aug 17 03:40:03 biggest lag is in my brain "wtf is that sound, my N900 doesn't usually make that" Aug 17 03:40:04 :P Aug 17 03:40:23 never noticed disabling autorotate and set to portrait fixed would still enable transitions on change of device orientation, so can't reproduce Aug 17 03:41:23 Oh hey, discovered last friday that one of my coworkers' last job was testing nokia devices.. He told of how they discovered the headphone amp was always on, because the headphones made crackle-pop when you inserted plug Aug 17 03:41:38 * ShadowJK tried plug in headphones in n900 and sure enough, crackle bang pop Aug 17 03:41:40 my biggest lag is I love to listen to D.A.F Mussolini, so don't want to stop the ringtone :-P Aug 17 03:42:24 I suspect in N900 the amp either cna't power on without spiking, or then stuff is switchd on with volume at 11 Aug 17 03:43:20 and, tbh, somebody complaining he missed calls because a 5s lag (assuming there really is such lag) is a really poor pal. I'd not like to have such busy callers, they can go write me a postcard instead Aug 17 03:45:49 ShadowJK: that's not an easy subject, but for sure should be manageable and amp should NOT be always on. That'd be a serious bug Aug 17 03:46:22 Amusingly, when I plug in extension cord first, and then headphones into extension cord, I get no crackle whatsoever. :P Aug 17 03:46:28 but there are some comparators on mic pin that always feed some voltage to it I'd think Aug 17 03:47:12 mm Aug 17 03:47:27 sure, that'w because your extension cord has no mic 4th wire, or it doesn't trigger the detection circuitry powering up the mic Aug 17 03:49:16 there's a switch mechanically detecting plug insertion. If plug is already inserted then most likely the comparators are disabled again, so no voltage of any kind on any of the 3 pins wrt gnd Aug 17 03:50:00 perfectly sensible explanation Aug 17 03:50:26 also indicating it's probably not the amp that is 'always on and crackling' Aug 17 03:51:23 I even dare you hear a click in left ear first, then a few ms later in right ear, depending on how fast you plug in the headset Aug 17 03:52:30 anyway o/ Aug 17 03:52:34 Yes Aug 17 03:52:42 I think the left earbud was killed actually Aug 17 03:52:49 probably knocked the membrane loose Aug 17 03:55:40 check your AV related sysnodes. maybe your receptacle has problems with contact, so not noticing plug had been pulled. This would enable TV-out on MIC ring, and that's actually almost a killer (could at least) for headsets plugged in during that Aug 17 03:56:36 n8 Aug 17 03:56:49 it's hard to tell Aug 17 03:57:56 I order these 5 pairs at a time, half come pre-broken and the remaining half fails in a month and the remaining half last a year before the plastic in the wire becomes too stiff and cuts the actual wire Aug 17 03:58:17 so it might actually be a pre-broken early fail one too Aug 17 03:58:20 Koss.. Aug 17 03:58:37 most tolerable I've found for work though :/ Aug 17 04:01:09 lol ShadowJK neet to find something better Aug 17 04:01:42 I've considered trying shure Aug 17 04:02:35 what? has to be usa stuff? Aug 17 04:03:03 though prob all made in china Aug 17 04:03:08 c't recommends Phillips, for outdoor sports headset Aug 17 04:03:20 iirc Aug 17 04:03:30 no it doesn't have to be usa stuff Aug 17 04:04:57 But it has to be iem, foam not silicone or rubber, and small enough to be worn comfortably under helmets, headpohnes, earmuffs, hearing protectors, etc Aug 17 04:05:26 shure seems to have yellow foam kit available Aug 17 04:05:49 as in hardhat? or milatary? Aug 17 04:06:34 i was thinking motorcycle type Aug 17 04:06:42 ahh Aug 17 04:07:00 so tight Aug 17 04:08:06 * ShadowJK sleeps Aug 17 04:08:30 couple hundred more pair and you could of bought a helmet with it built in Aug 17 04:08:47 or had it made Aug 17 04:09:37 well I want one set that works in every situation, not a dozen different things depending on situation :p Aug 17 04:11:00 N900: headphone killer Aug 17 04:11:05 * kerio spreads FUd Aug 17 04:11:15 s/FUd/FUD/ Aug 17 04:12:59 * luke-jr spreads FUD all over kerio Aug 17 04:13:11 *omnomnom* Aug 17 04:37:27 * kirma tries to spot the change of discussion style on tmo and fails to see it Aug 17 04:38:37 it's still a board dominated by "nokia is not paying enough attention on MY importance" drama queens on way too many threads Aug 17 04:40:52 also, almost every thread shows completely utter lack of interest to actually do background research of any kind before going in and posting feelings and marketing-induced opinions as some sort of ultimate facts Aug 17 04:41:35 i read that as 'ultimate feces' Aug 17 04:43:45 having extremely hard time understanding people that discuss the hardware matters without actually reading all the publicly available hardware datasheets for the device components for instance. :I Aug 17 04:47:37 morn johnx Aug 17 04:47:44 allo Stskeeps :D Aug 17 04:47:55 what's new in the world? Aug 17 04:48:23 mm, no longer distmaster and transforming to a meego role where i can do more in practice about openness on n900 and so on Aug 17 04:48:44 yup. saw the t.m.o post from Quim (I think) Aug 17 04:48:50 I hear meego is continuing apace Aug 17 04:49:01 I'm really happy to see that shaping up Aug 17 04:49:04 it's going forward, not as quickly as i would have hoped, but so it goes Aug 17 04:49:33 it looks nice and quick from a casual observer's role. you should try it some time :D Aug 17 04:50:04 more fun to play with it :P Aug 17 04:50:16 hell has frozen over too and bme will be redistributable (though still closed) Aug 17 04:50:26 Yeah. Even I'm having that inexplicable urge to dive back in Aug 17 04:50:37 don't suppose anyone has run into problems downloading through browser? trying to dl from ovi store, download shows up but is stuck on 0% Aug 17 04:50:58 Brik: your wifi probably sucks Aug 17 04:51:22 Brik: as in Aug 17 04:51:24 ~wifi-psm Aug 17 04:51:26 [wifi-psm] http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) Aug 17 04:51:36 wow. and user support has gotten so friendly while I've been away :P Aug 17 04:52:01 johnx: i'm really tempted to leave tmo these days, too :P Aug 17 04:52:23 heh. haven't read it at all except through the lens of planet.maemo.org Aug 17 04:52:32 horrible place by now Aug 17 04:52:39 sad Aug 17 04:52:45 so where is the hip place to hang out? Aug 17 04:52:58 meego-dev? Aug 17 04:53:05 i guess forum.meego.com and #meego-arm Aug 17 04:53:06 :P Aug 17 04:59:42 nope. #qt-labs Aug 17 05:00:09 hehe Aug 17 05:01:47 Stskeeps: that fixed it, thanks :) Aug 17 05:09:08 mhm Aug 17 05:09:35 DocScrutinizer: know of a working 'prelink' for ARM? Aug 17 05:10:13 err, sorry? Aug 17 05:10:21 the tool, prelink Aug 17 05:10:22 :P Aug 17 05:10:24 I've used prelink on Zaurus Aug 17 05:10:37 but that was before armeb Aug 17 05:10:54 aah, seem to recall somebody mentioned something like that, either here or on #meego-arm Aug 17 05:10:57 ljp, in sharp ROM, openzaurus, oe/angstrom? Aug 17 05:11:03 btw: Aug 17 05:11:09 ~psm-fault Aug 17 05:11:10 power save mode is a wifi thingie, has nothing to do with the screen. What it basically means is that the n810 is saying "I'm sleeping for 580ms, keep my messages 'till then", but the router doesn't understand this, and sends everything through immediately, and then the n810 asks "Hey bro, you got anything for me?" And the router doesn't reply, as it doesn't understand what he's asking... Aug 17 05:11:21 nice one, courtesy crashanddie Aug 17 05:11:32 or timeless? Aug 17 05:11:44 johnx: oz and angstrom Aug 17 05:12:25 Stskeeps: but no, really no idea about prelinking Aug 17 05:12:53 Stskeeps, you might be in luck then, since OE might have some arm specific patches for prelink Aug 17 05:13:13 johnx: armel though Aug 17 05:13:51 OE builds for every different ARM variant you've ever heard of Aug 17 05:13:58 yup Aug 17 05:14:18 linux for washing machines Aug 17 05:14:59 mm, true Aug 17 05:15:45 OM based on OE, maybe it was in that chan where I read 'prelink' a few days ago Aug 17 05:15:59 last time I tried compiling prelink for angstrom, there were alignment problems, but that was years ago Aug 17 05:18:25 unfortunately, I don't have anything running angstrom right now, but it looks like at least the package can be built Aug 17 05:20:01 I used to prelink the qtopia roms for om too now that I think about it Aug 17 05:20:45 OM? Sorry, drawing a blank right now... Aug 17 05:21:22 openmoko Aug 17 05:22:15 ah right. Almost jumped on that project, but I have feelings of anxiety and dread when holding a device without a physical keyboard (...) Aug 17 05:22:43 heh Aug 17 05:23:00 man, this really did turn into an om refugee channel Aug 17 05:23:35 no, thats #meego Aug 17 05:23:50 ieatlint, that and current or ex-Zaurus users :) Aug 17 05:24:02 haha Aug 17 05:24:10 i didn't get caught in zaurus at least Aug 17 05:24:51 * johnx 's feelings towards Sharp are not constructive Aug 17 05:25:23 understandable Aug 17 05:25:39 I mean, I was dead-set on hating them forever, then they released the netwalker ... Aug 17 05:27:05 Stskeeps, for what it's worth: http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/prelink Aug 17 05:27:22 yeah, i saw it Aug 17 05:28:00 another case of not following upstream, we're in 2010 now Aug 17 05:28:01 :P Aug 17 05:28:11 heh Aug 17 05:28:14 well some of us are Aug 17 05:28:47 morn tekojo Aug 17 05:29:27 morning Stskeeps Aug 17 05:30:17 * ljp thinks oe was terrible about upstream Aug 17 05:30:32 they put a lot on their plate Aug 17 05:31:31 As I learned painfully, even doing some "minor" modifications to an established distro is an insane task Aug 17 05:38:36 * Stskeeps notes to himself prelink test cases fail spetacularly on arm Aug 17 05:38:42 40 out of 40 ;) Aug 17 05:42:39 wow. that's ... awesome Aug 17 05:45:44 100% success :-P Aug 17 05:45:46 at least its consistent Aug 17 05:46:50 something about the difference between precision and accuracy Aug 17 05:46:59 * DocScrutinizer suggesting to Stskeeps to do a humble query about prelink experience in #openmoko-cdevel Aug 17 06:42:12 hey.. i downloaded osm2go, and mappero (maemo-mapper), but osm2go isn't importing the data from mappero, any ideas? Aug 17 06:45:43 When I start top, which process includes the linux ipstack? I want to estimate the ipstack performance requirements for some use cases. Aug 17 06:46:48 process? :/ Aug 17 06:46:53 linux is not a microkernel Aug 17 06:47:59 I would start by looking at time spent in 'sys' Aug 17 06:50:36 I can't find "sys" in top or ps. I would expect it to be included in something which showed up in "[]" in ps. Aug 17 06:50:52 yay, new fcamera Aug 17 06:51:00 and it apparently supports titan's kernel Aug 17 06:52:25 smokie, at the top, next to 'user' Aug 17 06:52:55 in the line beginning 'CPU: ' Aug 17 06:54:21 johnx, but this is not included on maemo (busybox) top .-( Aug 17 06:54:32 macman? Aug 17 06:54:36 uhm, N800 or N900? Aug 17 06:54:40 n810 Aug 17 06:54:43 ah Aug 17 06:54:52 is it in n900 ? Aug 17 06:54:58 alright, I'd believe that. I tested it on the N900 before replying :) Aug 17 06:55:16 ;) Aug 17 06:55:28 * johnx should find his N800 charger again and get it booted Aug 17 06:56:03 forget messybox, get decent tools :-D Aug 17 06:56:31 * DocScrutinizer51 suggests htop for a start Aug 17 06:59:07 hey.. i downloaded osm2go, and mappero (maemo-mapper), but osm2go isn't importing the data from mappero, any ideas? ... this is on maemo5.. . Aug 17 07:11:05 DocScrutinizer, thx. There is no explicite "sys" in maemo htop, but the CPU percentage is a start Aug 17 07:26:33 ~ping Aug 17 07:26:35 ~pong Aug 17 07:26:41 Morgen ! Aug 17 08:16:16 wtf, I have 15 mod points on slashdot Aug 17 08:18:03 crashanddie, with great power comes great responsibility. With small amounts of power though, no one really cares :P Aug 17 08:18:18 haha, how you doing johnx? Aug 17 08:18:25 pretty good Aug 17 08:18:51 having fun at work, been playing with embedded linux again recently Aug 17 08:18:58 what about you? Aug 17 08:18:59 where you at these days? Aug 17 08:19:20 actually working in redmond, wa. but not for the company you think :P Aug 17 08:19:33 Just waiting for people to arrive so we can start training -- I'm getting a scrubbing on a new product (I recently got a new job, as a C++ dev) Aug 17 08:19:41 hi Aug 17 08:19:50 sadly, the bloke I'm going to replace isn't the earliest of birds... Usually comes in around 11 or 12Am Aug 17 08:20:07 hi open-s Aug 17 08:21:05 don't even know if he's coming in at lunch time or the middle of the night? does sound problematic :D Aug 17 08:21:21 meh Aug 17 08:21:35 everyone starts at 9am, he comes in 2 or 3 hours later :P Aug 17 08:21:37 better nao? Aug 17 08:21:39 even I try to show up before 11AM though Aug 17 08:21:55 why there are no visual desktop effect in maemo like compiz Aug 17 08:22:00 well yeah, I was shocked the guy beat me... In London, I was usually in the office around 10:30 or something Aug 17 08:22:21 open-s: was that a question? Aug 17 08:22:33 yes Aug 17 08:22:37 open-s: there are. or do you mean the cube thing? Aug 17 08:22:39 open-s: how many minutes of battery life would you like? Aug 17 08:22:41 2 or 3? Aug 17 08:22:51 timeless: including boot time? :P Aug 17 08:22:53 and would you like a 20s emergency call or is 5s ok? Aug 17 08:22:57 yes johnx Aug 17 08:23:11 open-s: it's not there because you haven't programmed it yet Aug 17 08:23:12 crash: well, maybe, we can exclude boot time unless you want the visual effects for that too Aug 17 08:23:37 timeless, you mean like a video that plays on every boot? :3 Aug 17 08:23:48 johnx: a non pre-rendered one! Aug 17 08:23:55 with random rotation effects Aug 17 08:24:05 i think n900 can run desktop effect perfectly Aug 17 08:24:20 hi..for maemo applications there is a .service file. How can I use that for multiple instance applications? Aug 17 08:24:32 open-s: Then you should program some more transitions if the default ones aren't enough Aug 17 08:24:48 timeless: rotation based on handset movement Aug 17 08:25:14 crashanddie: oh so the phone can show that the earth is moving? Aug 17 08:25:28 timeless: for example :) Aug 17 08:25:46 johnx this relate with gpu Aug 17 08:26:06 open-s: yeah, I think johnx and timeless understand what this is all about... Aug 17 08:26:07 oh good,i was afraid it was related to the mmu Aug 17 08:27:47 open-s, I understand what you're saying. The reason there aren't any really fancy effects like compiz is that no one has written the code to do that. *You* could write the effects if you wanted. Aug 17 08:29:06 johnx : the mean problem with n900 gpu programming Aug 17 08:30:16 What's the problem? It runs OpenGL ES 2, which is different than plain Open GL, but it should be possible to code in compiz as a reference Aug 17 08:30:35 s/to code/to use the code/g Aug 17 08:30:35 johnx meant: What's the problem? It runs OpenGL ES 2, which is different than plain Open GL, but it should be possible to use the code in compiz as a reference Aug 17 08:31:18 its easy to write program for maemo to setup but diffuclt to handle by gpu Aug 17 08:31:39 s/./how long does the bot retain info?/ Aug 17 08:31:50 aww Aug 17 08:31:50 ?? Aug 17 08:31:51 open-s, then you'll have to try hard. good luck. Aug 17 08:32:21 koala_man: you could read the docs for infobot.. Aug 17 08:34:20 for me i still try to do it but the mean problem for me my time is spending to write program for HR by java because it will bring money for me Aug 17 08:34:21 timeless: doesn't seem to include that info Aug 17 08:34:48 * timeless runs out of power and sleeps() Aug 17 08:35:40 'night timeless Aug 17 08:37:39 koala_man: it only works for your own sentences Aug 17 08:37:46 koala_man: well, your last sentence Aug 17 08:37:50 so Aug 17 08:37:55 s/sentence/this will not work/ Aug 17 08:37:58 but Aug 17 08:38:04 s/but/but this will!/ Aug 17 08:38:06 crashanddie meant: but this will! Aug 17 08:41:42 crashanddie: but it didn't remember my last sentence, probably over a day ago Aug 17 08:42:11 koala_man: well, don't push it :P It may have rebooted in the mean time Aug 17 08:49:33 Morning, all Aug 17 08:50:31 mornin' Jaffa :D Aug 17 08:52:04 morning Jaffa Aug 17 09:12:49 morning \o Aug 17 09:14:09 mornin' Aug 17 09:24:21 morgen! Aug 17 09:24:47 moin Aug 17 09:25:32 hey hey Aug 17 09:26:10 killall X Aug 17 09:28:10 hello guys, I have been reading the N900 Case thread and I still can't decide on a case for the N900. I want a horizontal case with a Belt Clip .. any suggestions? Aug 17 09:29:07 use a condom, because with a clip belt you'll look like a dick Aug 17 09:29:44 haha good one Aug 17 09:29:51 your pocket Aug 17 09:30:18 kerio: i think the N900 will be a little too wide for my pocket.. what do u think? Aug 17 09:30:25 it's fine Aug 17 09:30:44 I use jacket pockets, jeans pockets, and even suits pockets, never had an issue Aug 17 09:30:51 If it doesn't fit then your jeans are definitely too tight. Aug 17 09:30:55 do u have any kind of protection on it? Aug 17 09:31:00 suit pockets are wider though, so keys ahve a tendency to damage the screen Aug 17 09:31:15 MiXu-: my ass is big, jeans are typically not the best Aug 17 09:31:43 I use the front pocket and it's fine for me Aug 17 09:32:14 quanttrom: front pocket of jeans, no protection Aug 17 09:32:25 hm Aug 17 09:32:35 kerio: is it stratched up? Aug 17 09:33:13 scratched* Aug 17 09:33:38 crashanddie, when I have n900 in suit pocket it slides around Aug 17 09:34:06 quanttrom: i'm at the *beach* now Aug 17 09:34:12 been for a month+ Aug 17 09:34:13 damn, meego conference is badly planned, stupid intel people Aug 17 09:34:21 of course it's scratched Aug 17 09:34:45 kerio: I guess u don't mind :) Aug 17 09:34:54 irc on the beach ftw Aug 17 09:34:59 crashanddie, ? whats wrong with it Aug 17 09:35:22 certainly looks more organised to me? Aug 17 09:36:43 monday to wednesday? Aug 17 09:36:53 There's hobbyists who don't really want to spend 3 days of holiday on a con Aug 17 09:37:22 kerio, maemo on the beach++ http://www.flickr.com/photos/7703413@N05/2800651680/ Aug 17 09:37:23 fri-sun was perfect Aug 17 09:37:28 'night everyone :) Aug 17 09:38:20 hey and gnite johnx Aug 17 09:39:11 'night lcuk. good to see you again. I'll be around more :) Aug 17 09:39:35 you better Aug 17 09:39:52 \o Aug 17 09:39:58 night Aug 17 09:40:07 * lcuk ponders elvis Aug 17 09:45:03 What do you think about the OtterBox? Aug 17 09:49:04 n900 and bluetooth + carkits -> trouble , to get just the n900 connected ( without phonebook ), i have to disconnect/connect via bluetooth -> devices -> edit ( select appropriate device ) , someone knows if there is a shortcut ? Aug 17 09:57:32 ~brainfart Aug 17 10:18:37 Docscrutinizer i think i found my issue... moved a magnet away from device and got rid of case with magnetic closure no more glitches sofar... or its just nmot acting up today... Aug 17 10:39:08 * lcuk ponders how to goto Las Vegas Aug 17 10:42:37 goto LasVegas Aug 17 10:44:01 sx0n, sure Aug 17 10:44:23 but that costs money for entire family friends etc :P Aug 17 10:45:24 life is greedy algorithm Aug 17 11:03:49 hi all, is there a way I can see where all the scheduled tasks are for the n900? I know that there is no crontab, but just wondering where all the scheduled tasks are kept Aug 17 11:12:41 why the python doesn't have pstats module in maemo Aug 17 11:17:31 wazd, :) please give vlad a massive pat on the back Aug 17 11:17:55 livebackground stuff is looking amazing, and now he has xscreensaver support its better than ever Aug 17 11:18:09 I'm having trouble making deb out of py. Bugtracker field gets broken for some reason. My package: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/sanakirja.org/0.3.0-2/ My build script: http://pastebin.com/EV08xqat Aug 17 11:18:15 ~200 all new interactions :) Aug 17 11:28:43 lcuk: well, it's not only Vlad who's working on LWP :) Aug 17 11:29:17 of course wazd Aug 17 11:29:29 but he can dish out the back pats to everyone else! Aug 17 11:30:46 lcuk: I hope we'll be in Dublin together anyway so you can pat whoever you like woth your own hands :D Aug 17 11:31:18 wazd, that sounds like a plan :) Aug 17 11:31:26 are you signed up? Aug 17 11:31:44 oilgame, are you sure that values in the file /debian/control in the tarball are really created from your build script? Aug 17 11:33:16 AHAAAAAAHAAH Aug 17 11:33:44 what's the command to connect to a saved wireless? I know how to connect to "any" but I was wondering if anyone has the command to connect to a wireless (the same way that in the settings, the search interval automatically connects to wifi when available) Aug 17 11:33:49 * chem|st needs an TMO alt... Aug 17 11:33:53 Pretty sure, found that script from here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Py2deb Aug 17 11:35:11 oilgame, http://wiki.maemo.org/Py2deb#Install_py2deb also mentions that it's broken and a workaround Aug 17 11:37:11 I think pypackager replaces py2deb? Aug 17 11:37:19 Aa, thanks. Aug 17 11:37:32 Khertan_: ^^ Aug 17 11:40:16 misc---: http://wiki.maemo.org/DbusScripts Aug 17 11:40:56 great thanks for that chem|st Aug 17 11:41:26 np Aug 17 11:46:11 you can do funny things with that... Aug 17 12:08:23 Hi ... Aug 17 12:08:41 X-Fade, oilgame exactly pypackager replace py2deb Aug 17 12:09:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Mk3qkQROb_k&vq=hd1080#t=11 Aug 17 12:12:29 oilgame: http://khertan.net/pypackager_howto Aug 17 12:21:01 NGEN Aug 17 12:26:05 crashanddie: I LOL'ed Aug 17 12:26:11 alterego, do you have columbus uploaded somewhere? Aug 17 12:48:54 lcuk: yeah: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus Aug 17 12:49:04 lcuk: the exe is there, not sure how old it is. Aug 17 12:49:17 binary only? eep thats not very OSS friendly :P Aug 17 12:50:40 lcuk, submit to the proprietary wrath of alterego Aug 17 12:50:54 NEVARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Aug 17 12:51:25 unless of course he fully supports his work and makes timely updates :P Aug 17 12:52:20 mmmmmm ruby-maemo =) Aug 17 12:54:35 oilgame: /lc Aug 17 12:54:40 hubz Aug 17 12:55:06 oilgame: you should add scrolling to sanakirja.org app. when there's more results than fits to the screen, can't see them Aug 17 12:55:59 Hahah Aug 17 12:56:24 I uploaded it just so someone could use it whilst we were reversing the GPS protocol Aug 17 12:56:41 When it's finished I'll be uploading everything :P It's just not finished yet :) Aug 17 12:57:20 Is it possible to use a N900 as a USB keyboard for a PC? Aug 17 12:57:36 o_O Aug 17 12:57:51 Odd request I know Aug 17 12:57:53 SWFu: possible, yes. Aug 17 12:57:59 Don't think anyone has though :) Aug 17 12:58:17 SWFu: In principle, yes. Aug 17 12:58:19 Ah, ok, thanks Aug 17 12:58:20 Not even sure there's a USB keyboard HID peripheral kernel driver .. Aug 17 12:58:23 SWFu: In practice, oh Aug 17 12:58:24 yes Aug 17 12:58:26 that Aug 17 12:58:41 There are many possible USB gadget drivers that have not been written. Aug 17 12:58:49 SWFu: of course.... ssh by usb networking ? Aug 17 12:58:50 :) Aug 17 12:58:51 Scelt: I added it to 0.3 version. Aug 17 12:58:53 Would be cool though, to have a Linux powered keyboard/mouse :) Aug 17 12:59:02 http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy.html Aug 17 12:59:02 oilgame: nice! good software Aug 17 12:59:03 Heh Aug 17 12:59:12 lcuk made liqmouse :p Aug 17 12:59:13 For example, n900 as webcam, or soundcard Aug 17 12:59:14 So you could use an N900 to do something similar Aug 17 12:59:27 Scelt: thanks Aug 17 12:59:28 N900 as webcam, wasn't that done? Aug 17 12:59:34 oilgame: no, thank you :) Aug 17 13:00:10 MohammadAG51: I mean as a USB webcam supporting UVC, so it acts like a driverless webcam when plugged into a host Aug 17 13:00:22 I'm sure in the future all these things will become implemented, with more intelligent peripherals. Would be cool. Aug 17 13:00:46 Time for a sandwich# Aug 17 13:01:06 Hello Aug 17 13:01:07 and can the N900 be used as a BT mic? Aug 17 13:01:16 How do I connect to a WPA network on the N900? Aug 17 13:01:30 Status menu -> Internet connections Aug 17 13:01:42 hey someone called me on my n900 Aug 17 13:01:49 earphone didn't work D: Aug 17 13:02:04 MohammadAG51: When I click my network, it asks for the WEP key Aug 17 13:02:17 but I had been messing around in alsamixer trying to toute mic to headphone out :) Aug 17 13:02:24 retarded router, manually define it in settings Aug 17 13:03:18 Can't find the correct setting place Aug 17 13:05:14 Settings - Connectivity - internet connections... Aug 17 13:06:43 lolcat93: then you have a WEP network Aug 17 13:06:50 No Aug 17 13:06:54 I is an ad-hoc Aug 17 13:07:14 I chose WPA & WPA2 personlig Aug 17 13:07:54 hello, i'm about to buy a smartphone which runs maemo. i would like to ask if N900 from nokia would be the best choice? Aug 17 13:08:06 adnc: there is no other choice Aug 17 13:08:18 crashanddie, i see Aug 17 13:08:21 lol Aug 17 13:08:31 what about meego Aug 17 13:08:38 no devices announced yet Aug 17 13:08:40 will this replace maemo? Aug 17 13:08:48 though, should be done by the time the meego con is finished Aug 17 13:08:48 no Aug 17 13:09:04 maemo 6 will be based on meego Aug 17 13:09:34 MohammadAG51, as far as i know maemo runs on the beagleboard aswell Aug 17 13:09:44 i thought there might be other hardware Aug 17 13:09:54 does the n900 support bluetooth headphones? Aug 17 13:10:03 well, do you have a network stack on the beagleboard? Aug 17 13:10:11 s/network/telephony/ Aug 17 13:10:12 crashanddie meant: well, do you have a telephony stack on the beagleboard? Aug 17 13:10:14 kerio, duh :P Aug 17 13:10:21 kerio: firewall Aug 17 13:10:22 That was a good sammich Aug 17 13:10:29 not headsets, headphones Aug 17 13:10:31 Kind of want another one now. Aug 17 13:10:32 to listen to music Aug 17 13:10:34 crashanddie, network yes, telephony no Aug 17 13:10:50 kerio: I use a blooetooth handsfree Aug 17 13:10:51 kerio, duh :P Aug 17 13:11:00 of course it does Aug 17 13:11:04 the kind that you can hear well Aug 17 13:11:07 that kind Aug 17 13:11:32 A2DP? Aug 17 13:11:36 hi! i have a script in /etc/network/if-up.d which has executable bit set, but it isn't executed when connecting to a network. any ideas? Aug 17 13:11:42 MohammadAG51: yeah Aug 17 13:11:48 N900 supports that Aug 17 13:11:50 those :) Aug 17 13:11:57 yay Aug 17 13:12:04 is it possible to have a sort of disc encryption similar to harddisc encryption with luks? Aug 17 13:12:18 does someone have experience with one of those? Aug 17 13:12:19 GNU\caust1c: can you pastie.org the script Aug 17 13:12:26 is the media player control standard? Aug 17 13:12:37 Just submitted for the MeeGo conference. Aug 17 13:12:41 BT headsets yes Aug 17 13:12:44 I bet I don't get allowed. Aug 17 13:12:56 alterego: well, if you pay for yourself, there's no reason you wouldn't Aug 17 13:13:05 http://www.brechpunkt.de/paste/g6tso8X5.html line 5 should produce output in /tmp/wlan, but it doesn't Aug 17 13:13:05 crashanddie: I'm unemployed :P Aug 17 13:13:16 alterego: oh well, you won't be coming then :P Aug 17 13:13:20 Hahah Aug 17 13:13:21 lol Aug 17 13:13:22 :) Aug 17 13:13:35 manually running the script works though Aug 17 13:13:37 how much would it cost anyways? Aug 17 13:13:54 Well, I live in the UK, so not as much as others' Aug 17 13:13:59 adnc: sure! wanna port it? Aug 17 13:14:30 adnc: there is truecrypt available CLI Aug 17 13:14:35 GNU\caust1c: sorry, not sure then :/ Aug 17 13:15:03 i'd like headphones with a mic Aug 17 13:15:16 but not always showing, or i'd look like a True Dork Aug 17 13:16:06 kerio: yeah a headset with the mic integrated in the earpiece Aug 17 13:19:51 chem|st, i don't even have that device yet. i'm not going to think of porting anything yet Aug 17 13:20:06 adnc: lol... Aug 17 13:21:16 how is syncing? does it speak activesync or syncml Aug 17 13:21:18 adnc: yes there is truecrypt as CLI version only but that's it for now, noone seems to be interessted in porting anything like dm-crypt or anything like Aug 17 13:21:34 adnc: sync with what? Aug 17 13:22:45 chem|st, syncing contacts, calendar, notes etc for example with a horde installation, or any other activesync speaking groupware solution Aug 17 13:23:57 DIY syncevolution Aug 17 13:25:47 adnc: http://tinyurl.com/23y25cy Aug 17 13:25:59 Sweet, now I've got a job :D Aug 17 13:26:13 eh? Aug 17 13:26:42 chem|st, that gives an 500 - internal server error Aug 17 13:26:58 ;) Aug 17 13:28:26 Can my computer share its intenret conencvtion throug bluetooth? Aug 17 13:29:19 lolcat93: what computer do you have? an acer sure can't (LMAO) Aug 17 13:29:36 Lenovo - Ubuntu 10.04 Aug 17 13:29:45 yes, it can. Aug 17 13:30:21 http://ubuntuforums.org/tags.php?tag=bnep Aug 17 13:30:43 SpeedEvil: you going to the conf> Aug 17 13:30:45 ? Aug 17 13:31:13 * GAN900 wonders what happens with the hotel bill if sponsorship is declined. Aug 17 13:31:20 I could ask what conference, but that would be quite redundant, as the answer is the same witheverything. Aug 17 13:31:32 lolcat93: http://webnesbay.com/bluetooth-personal-area-network-in-ubuntu/ Aug 17 13:31:45 <_0x47> are the maemo repositories down, or is it just me facing this? Aug 17 13:31:46 GAN900, "What hotel bill?" :P Aug 17 13:32:03 MohammadAG51, the one you have to pay if you want to attend Aug 17 13:32:13 Whether or not you get sponsorship. Aug 17 13:32:27 GAN900: if I'm going, I'm paying your hotel bill Aug 17 13:32:30 MohammadAG51's too Aug 17 13:32:40 GAN900, I know, I was just saying what would happen if the sponsorship is canceled Aug 17 13:32:47 crashanddie, can't, damn school :( Aug 17 13:32:49 * SpeedEvil imagines 3 in a bed, and shudders. Aug 17 13:32:51 I did it, I've finally snapped: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=789381&postcount=253 Aug 17 13:32:58 crashanddie, much appreciated though :) Aug 17 13:33:09 MohammadAG51: interest rate of 365000% Aug 17 13:33:28 * frals needs to convince someone to send him to meegoconf Aug 17 13:33:30 Prepaying $135 is not a cheap conference for most people. Aug 17 13:33:44 * MohammadAG51 gives a trout to intel ceos Aug 17 13:33:48 and paying the balance of the bill 7 days before is even less doable. Aug 17 13:33:49 frals, done Aug 17 13:33:57 GAN900: mon-tue-wed is a stupid decision Aug 17 13:34:05 indeed Aug 17 13:34:14 * alterego awaits the hammer of thor .. Aug 17 13:34:24 crashanddie: Nah, that is just corporate thinking. Aug 17 13:34:35 crashanddie: There will only be corporate people, right? :) Aug 17 13:34:45 ^ Aug 17 13:34:51 X-Fade: last year made sense, this one doesn't Aug 17 13:34:56 just goes to show MeeGo's real colours Aug 17 13:35:01 I'm sorry GAN900, don't cry for me! I'm already dead! Aug 17 13:35:21 crashanddie: Well meego is no end-user community.... yet. Aug 17 13:35:21 I love Quim's comment that the current registration has about the same ratio of unaffiliated to affiliated as the last Summit. Aug 17 13:35:40 Which means the decision to make it so corporate focused was an interesting one. Aug 17 13:35:45 X-Fade: so why the fuck is there sponsoring then? Aug 17 13:35:59 X-Fade: if it's supposed to be corporate-only, why bother offering sponsorship, if nobody's going to get it? Aug 17 13:36:12 X-Fade: and will be not ? Aug 17 13:36:13 :) Aug 17 13:36:16 But, whatever, I will, personally, be treating the conference as a purely social event then moving on after (assuming sponsorship). Aug 17 13:36:17 crashanddie: Well two separate things again. Aug 17 13:36:35 I'm gonna go play my xbox and kill some bandits prentending they're incapabill_uk Aug 17 13:36:58 GAN900: yeah, good spirit, might join you on that one Aug 17 13:38:21 alterego, ARSE bandits if they are incapabill_uk Aug 17 13:38:35 Heh Aug 17 13:40:49 ~ping Aug 17 13:40:51 ~pong Aug 17 13:41:24 pong Aug 17 13:41:31 Do you want to smell my Ping Pong Pong? Aug 17 13:43:27 I just hulked out on a talk.maemo.org member Aug 17 13:43:35 Think I'm gonna blow off some steam and play red dead. Aug 17 13:43:43 ciao! Aug 17 13:43:50 Oh wait, wrong channel Aug 17 13:44:24 Well, regardless, ciao! :D Aug 17 13:44:40 w.t.f. Aug 17 13:44:51 how do i save an attachment in modest? Aug 17 13:45:03 oh right Aug 17 13:45:06 nm Aug 17 13:45:10 it works Aug 17 13:46:37 I was trying to longtap the file in the header area Aug 17 13:47:02 as singletap just whined about unknown filetype :) Aug 17 13:47:19 file a bug Aug 17 13:47:27 that's obviously stupid Aug 17 13:48:20 hm, is abiword still in -devel.. Aug 17 13:48:33 2Mbyte .rtf, this better be good Aug 17 13:49:57 I guess that's a feature request: be smart not stupid Aug 17 13:50:02 :P Aug 17 13:52:43 ShadowJK: i guess it ll end in : "Work for me" Aug 17 13:52:44 :) Aug 17 13:54:32 My internet on the phone stopped working :/ Aug 17 13:56:45 hey do we still have the bugbot in here? Aug 17 13:56:48 bug 1 Aug 17 13:56:49 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it Aug 17 13:56:56 oh yay Aug 17 13:56:57 ShadowJK: yes Aug 17 13:57:02 bug 1337 Aug 17 13:57:03 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1337 Menu item News -> garage news is broken Aug 17 13:57:10 bug 3683 Aug 17 13:57:11 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3683 modest is a piece of crap Aug 17 13:57:54 Bug -1 Aug 17 13:58:08 jaffa: which other meeting are you in? Aug 17 13:59:08 timeless: Work meeting about outstanding technical tasks Aug 17 14:00:15 neat, the python call seems to have affected something Aug 17 14:04:13 Stskeeps: python doesn't affect anythings ... python magnifize it ! Aug 17 14:04:30 python <3 Aug 17 14:07:50 I can't get internet on my N900 Aug 17 14:09:01 timeless, so the "correct" way to save attachment is apparently to tap window menu, where there's a save attachments item Aug 17 14:09:18 timeless, I wonder if it's just me who didn't think to look there Aug 17 14:10:07 no sjk, everything in microb is always entirely striaght forward and adheres to perfect logic.... Aug 17 14:10:43 modest Aug 17 14:10:44 which btw, to a lot of extent fennec fixes Aug 17 14:10:58 not microb Aug 17 14:11:32 microb is awesome Aug 17 14:11:38 fennec ... hum .... i hope it ll be usable on n900 before the plateform fully disapear Aug 17 14:13:21 * ShadowJK presses commit and hopes andre doesn't kill him Aug 17 14:13:46 gggghhhh Aug 17 14:14:13 the "email sent to" list is scary Aug 17 14:14:25 URL? Aug 17 14:14:26 * ShadowJK regrets this already Aug 17 14:14:32 lol Aug 17 14:14:54 ah, 11147 Aug 17 14:15:17 ShadowJK: i know that's the correct way Aug 17 14:15:22 but, the error is stupid Aug 17 14:16:33 so I suggested it would say something like "Unknown filetype, do you want to save the file?" instead Aug 17 14:17:28 uh, microb crashed when i tried go back to it :) Aug 17 14:17:51 modest \o/ Aug 17 14:19:38 now where was I.. Aug 17 14:19:53 ah, trying to open the multimegabyte .rtf... :) Aug 17 14:20:23 ShadowJK: that woudl be nice (re modest) Aug 17 14:21:43 andre__, like your latest blog post. :P Aug 17 14:24:35 * ShadowJK wonders if dataviz is optified Aug 17 14:25:49 * SpeedEvil wonders if ShadowJK is optified. Aug 17 14:26:15 I'm relocatable Aug 17 14:28:14 dataviz is in Ovi Aug 17 14:28:35 also outside ovi Aug 17 14:28:49 I still haven't managed to create an ovi account Aug 17 14:29:14 I try it every few months when I've forgotten why I haven't got one Aug 17 14:29:22 and then give up after an hour or two Aug 17 14:29:26 how can I make scratchbox use an X server with a DISPLAY higher than :2 ? Aug 17 14:32:23 thomasvs, export DISPLAY=:3 Aug 17 14:32:31 or whatever you want Aug 17 14:32:39 MohammadAG51: when calling /opt/scratchbox/login that gets overridden Aug 17 14:33:10 /opt? Aug 17 14:33:24 that's where I have it, but /scratchbox/login would do the same Aug 17 14:34:28 hmm Aug 17 14:34:41 export it inside scratchbox Aug 17 14:36:03 I could, but kind of annoying - Yet Another Script To Run Before Each Command Aug 17 14:36:14 something is forcing it to be :2 and ideally that's an option somewhere I can override ? Aug 17 14:36:43 hey guys Aug 17 14:38:33 ok, so .installation_environment in $HOME inside sbox is something I can set it in Aug 17 14:39:10 what is the current situation of the MeeGo handset UX? Aug 17 14:41:17 so Documents to Go doesn't open .rtf Aug 17 14:41:24 abiword does though :D Aug 17 14:43:15 documents to go? Aug 17 14:43:17 :/ Aug 17 14:43:19 there's... openoffice Aug 17 14:44:16 Venemo: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux Aug 17 14:44:18 :=) Aug 17 14:44:24 Khertan: thx Aug 17 14:44:48 openoffice on N900 \o/ Aug 17 14:44:49 i think i need easy-debian for ooo? Aug 17 14:44:58 yes Aug 17 14:45:04 Khertan_: is it now able to make phone calls? Aug 17 14:45:48 thomasvs, you only need to export it once in scratchbox Aug 17 14:45:54 then af-whatever.sh start Aug 17 14:45:54 I think Open-Office was painfully slow Aug 17 14:46:22 well, if you really need OOo, then you'll probably not mind the 5min startup time, and neither the 500MB VM size Aug 17 14:46:29 Hi Aug 17 14:46:30 freoffice doesn't seem to recognize .rtf :P Aug 17 14:48:21 pleeease anybody post a screenshot of OOo on fremantle :-P Preferably with a menu opened Aug 17 14:50:21 DocScrutinizer: what do you mean by "OOo"? Aug 17 14:50:27 OpenOffice.org Aug 17 14:50:37 OpenOffice.org ? Aug 17 14:51:55 DocScrutinizer: it's... ugly Aug 17 14:52:13 OOo from within lxde is not bad, with a *normal* theme selected Aug 17 14:52:16 unbearable is the word, I'd say Aug 17 14:52:43 and normal fontsizes Aug 17 14:52:43 it's also cute and tiny Aug 17 14:52:43 squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Aug 17 14:52:45 OpenOffice is a dutch company, if yoy want to refer ro the office packet, it;s OpenOffice.org Aug 17 14:53:25 or OOo Aug 17 14:54:24 indeed Aug 17 14:54:40 it's cute Aug 17 14:54:45 :3 Aug 17 14:59:32 well it was ``usable'' even on my CF-27 300MHz-P-II with 128MB Aug 17 15:01:17 About Meego ... does python and pyqt/pyside is available for handset ux ? Aug 17 15:01:29 i didn't found any information about it Aug 17 15:01:42 err, Aug 17 15:01:54 #meego ? Aug 17 15:02:17 ah ... yep :) Aug 17 15:02:43 i forgot that i was on #osgraveyard Aug 17 15:04:00 yeah, with Nokia kindergarden and cemetary are almost same thing Aug 17 15:04:08 just like in real life Aug 17 15:05:06 Khertan_: osgraveyard... lol :D Aug 17 15:06:12 rip opensolaris as well :-( Aug 17 15:07:39 Random. Is anyone arware of any proof of concept code that's out there that goes from the sound of a keyboard to keystrokes? Aug 17 15:07:49 I know these have been researched, but is any code in the wild? Aug 17 15:08:03 Idly wondering as a cheap alternative to bluetooth. Aug 17 15:08:55 SpeedEvil: ask mossad :-P Aug 17 15:09:08 SpeedEvil: they also used radio receiver to log the keystrokes Aug 17 15:09:28 SpeedEvil: and no, it's probably no viable alternative to BT Aug 17 15:09:40 Probably not - would be fun as a proof of concept. Aug 17 15:10:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3wPBcmSb2U - silly. Relay computer. Aug 17 15:11:02 I'd recon the processing time for one keystroke to be up to some seconds, and S/N like 90%, means 10% false or not detected keys Aug 17 15:11:49 http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-08-17-13.58.html Aug 17 15:12:18 key repeat also tends to be a pita, as key release even more prone to ENOSENSE than key-down Aug 17 15:14:51 Of course. Aug 17 15:21:28 don't forget qualifier keys :-) Aug 17 15:21:47 Stskeeps, great tmo post! Makes me happy about my N900 :) Aug 17 15:22:20 mece: people are forgetting the big picture. Aug 17 15:22:34 Stskeeps, people are idiots ;) Aug 17 15:22:50 and most importantly, to be sane activists, not moaning bitchers Aug 17 15:22:51 :P Aug 17 15:24:09 bah rants. URL or it didn't happen Aug 17 15:24:41 Stskeeps, centred text on individual post links is awful! Aug 17 15:24:44 Stskeeps, anyway, I was wondering if there's some particular bit that one could help with.. Since I'm no good at actually doing the work, I might see about the wiki pages or something like that. Aug 17 15:24:59 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=789387&postcount=255 Aug 17 15:25:04 lcuk: always been, if you're talking bout tmo Aug 17 15:26:00 lcuk: but then, links to individual post are awful Aug 17 15:26:51 indeed DocScrutinizer seeing the whole thread adds much more context to a posting Aug 17 15:27:34 took me quite some months to find out how to get there Aug 17 15:28:38 clicking on postnr of particular post in thread, then in single post awkward view, copy&paste the link upper right Aug 17 15:29:08 that's really clumsy, but quite worth it for the quality of your posted links Aug 17 15:29:12 DocScrutinizer, simplest is just to click the thread on top right Aug 17 15:29:26 it takes you to the whole thread with specific post scrolled to Aug 17 15:29:32 and shock! left aligned Aug 17 15:29:47 and shock! in a new window :-P Aug 17 15:30:07 * lcuk does not see a new window Aug 17 15:30:22 prolly depends on browser & settings Aug 17 15:30:44 yes Aug 17 15:30:50 * lcuk kicks debian Aug 17 15:31:05 * mece licks debian Aug 17 15:31:13 ..salty Aug 17 15:31:28 * DocScrutinizer dicks le... errr Aug 17 15:31:36 LOOOOOL Aug 17 15:32:34 I'm not sure lenny appreciates that Aug 17 15:37:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr8TAS4y5Eo&feature=related Aug 17 15:37:58 hihi Aug 17 15:38:11 ~debian mece Aug 17 15:38:12 * infobot tells mece to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Aug 17 15:39:05 hee Aug 17 15:39:27 man doesn't seem to work on my N900 though.. Aug 17 15:41:58 n910 ? -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ4ynGxQnGY&feature=related Aug 17 15:42:16 mece, hmm? Aug 17 15:42:49 Khertan_, that's an early prototype though... Aug 17 15:42:58 Khertan_: troll thread w/ obvious phootshops or something that might be real? Aug 17 15:42:59 yep i think too Aug 17 15:43:21 it something real :) Aug 17 15:43:28 definately :D Aug 17 15:43:30 but certainly not n910 Aug 17 15:43:34 haha Aug 17 15:43:42 or in a first stage of development Aug 17 15:43:56 but i doubt Aug 17 15:44:08 meh Aug 17 15:44:38 tybollt, it's a joke. Aug 17 15:44:45 tybollt, I LOL'd Aug 17 16:17:37 mece: man-n900 works great for me (courtesy MohammadAG) Aug 17 16:17:49 what's that? Aug 17 16:18:45 man, check man man to know what's man Aug 17 16:19:03 man man :D Aug 17 16:19:34 maemo has no "man" ^^ Aug 17 16:19:45 it *has* Aug 17 16:19:48 ? Aug 17 16:20:00 [2010-08-17 18:17:01] mece: man-n900 works great for me (courtesy MohammadAG) Aug 17 16:20:37 not for me xd Aug 17 16:21:00 that's at your discretion not to install that great package Aug 17 16:21:19 yx Aug 17 16:21:28 man-db-n900 Aug 17 16:21:50 http://maemo.org/packages/view/man-db-n900 Aug 17 16:22:27 anyone got working ubuntu 9.10 on n900? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=752676&postcount=51 Aug 17 16:22:32 ~wtf xd Aug 17 16:22:34 Gee... I don't know what xd means... Aug 17 16:23:41 my n900 wont boot ubuntu 9.10 -.- Aug 17 16:24:13 My n900 won't boot GEM. Aug 17 16:24:29 GEM? whats GEM? Aug 17 16:24:59 ~define GEM Aug 17 16:25:00 Use ~dict for definitions. Aug 17 16:25:05 ~dict GEM Aug 17 16:25:08 Dictionary 'GEM' (2 of 14): a person who is a brilliant and precious as a piece of jewelry ;; art highly prized for its beauty or perfection . Aug 17 16:25:13 my n900 boots PR1.2 :P Aug 17 16:25:25 but I want to get a BSD on there Aug 17 16:25:40 my n900 boots PR1.2, too :p Aug 17 16:25:56 merlincorey: what bsd currently runs on the N900? Aug 17 16:27:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_Environment_Manager Aug 17 16:28:25 tybollt: netbsd for sure Aug 17 16:30:35 matthew-: it does work? Aug 17 16:30:46 anyone here who could help me with http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=752676&postcount=51 ? Aug 17 16:31:26 matthew-: care to link me? googlers has nothing Aug 17 16:40:00 tybollt: http://www.netbsd.org/ Aug 17 16:40:06 tybollt: it works on Casion watches Aug 17 16:41:52 yes, I was thinking netbsd :) I've heard of people having some amount of success with it Aug 17 16:57:49 any nice discussuon? Aug 17 16:58:01 *discussion Aug 17 16:59:39 matthew-: I don't find any evidence on netbsd.org they run on the N900 Aug 17 17:03:12 Hi Aug 17 18:12:28 tybollt: netbsd runs on ANYTHING Aug 17 18:12:54 they'd like you to think that Aug 17 18:12:55 yes' Aug 17 18:13:23 tybollt: been using it for a long while Aug 17 18:28:29 test Aug 17 18:28:30 why has nokia forsaken the n900 and left it without voice gps ? this is not cool Aug 17 18:28:40 sygic works for me Aug 17 18:29:07 sygic does not have US maps Aug 17 18:31:23 according to their website they do Aug 17 18:31:34 http://www.sygic.com/index.php/en/maps.html Aug 17 18:31:52 99% US coverage in the maemo version Aug 17 18:34:09 is sygic good? Aug 17 18:34:34 Best you've got AFAICT Aug 17 18:35:10 i've not used it myself, but reviews of the latest version sound positive Aug 17 18:35:21 my n900 arrives this week. i'll probably shell out for sygic Aug 17 18:36:08 US maps must be a recent update Aug 17 18:37:09 voice gps should be included like they have done for newer symbian devices Aug 17 18:42:33 hi Aug 17 18:42:38 nokia should step up , 4.3 inch screen with 1ghz proc Aug 17 18:43:01 Jaffa: alive? Aug 17 18:43:23 hrw|n900: on ropey 3G connection, but yes Aug 17 18:43:45 Jaffa: I am on 2.5G Aug 17 18:44:16 hrw|n900: N900 says _ only now. Do I win? :) Aug 17 18:44:30 s/_/2G/ Aug 17 18:44:31 Jaffa meant: hrw|n900: N900 says 2G only now. Do I win? :) Aug 17 18:44:32 Jaffa: catorise sorted categories by en names instead of Polish ones. ideas? Aug 17 18:44:47 you did :) Aug 17 18:45:09 hrw|n900: Hmm. It should be using user locale. Wonder if that's not getting to root now when trigger runs Aug 17 18:45:28 LC_ALL=pl_PL /opt/catorise/catorise used did not helped Aug 17 18:45:38 Oh. Aug 17 18:45:51 maybe catorisegui broke something - i used it before Aug 17 18:45:52 hrw|n900: Polish built in, or add on? Aug 17 18:45:58 built Aug 17 18:46:02 Hmm. Aug 17 18:46:26 Should be easily reproducible using that cmd then. Can you raise a bug? Aug 17 18:46:53 will do Aug 17 18:48:24 Jaffa: is there a way to make own categories? Aug 17 18:48:41 Jaffa: would like to create' phone' one Aug 17 18:52:17 bug 9418 probably Aug 17 18:52:18 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9418 Catorise does not respect localized category names when sorting the menu Aug 17 18:52:44 hrw|n900: Yes: create a new .directory and and add it to the list of valid sections at the top of the scriot Aug 17 18:52:49 hrw|n900: Ah, cool Aug 17 18:53:24 will check files later. need to bath child Aug 17 18:54:53 btw which file does catorise rewrites? Aug 17 18:55:36 hrw|n900: /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu Aug 17 18:55:47 who needs catorize when there's great AppMeFo ? Aug 17 18:56:29 DocScrutinizer: ? Aug 17 18:57:15 sorting of appstarter menus by braindamaged categories in HAM/repos is err... useless Aug 17 18:57:29 Jaffa: layout section is sorted in Polish - just like 9418 Aug 17 18:57:42 DocScrutinizer, now now - some people like them and happily system supports it :P Aug 17 18:58:40 DocScrutinizer: using one long list sucks Aug 17 18:58:44 I for one prefer AppMeFo over catorise all days Aug 17 18:59:05 * lcuk just throws his most used apps on a desktop Aug 17 19:00:05 ofc that as well Aug 17 19:00:39 doesn't cure the pain of crowded default menu and braindamaged catorise sorting Aug 17 19:00:43 Stskeeps, would the entire hildon desktop have to be pulled into meego to allow reference support for hildon widgets? Aug 17 19:01:05 lcuk: hildon widgets are just windows Aug 17 19:01:26 with support api for plugging them in etc Aug 17 19:01:27 small ones Aug 17 19:01:42 tbh selling N900 without AppMeFo functionality ootb is a crime Aug 17 19:02:13 Stskeeps, I am wondering how we could transition and get support for prewritten widget components in meego Aug 17 19:02:30 lcuk: i don't know how widget structure looks in meego Aug 17 19:02:42 ie, the change from diablo to fremantle was not painfree, but people did not have to start from scratch Aug 17 19:02:43 wth is appmefo? Aug 17 19:02:55 me neither, but its a question I have seen a few times Aug 17 19:03:01 DocScrutinizer, lol by: joerg_rw | Replies: 7 | Views: 777 | Forum: Applications | Last Post: Today 09:47 PM by joerg_rw Go to last post Aug 17 19:03:07 5 7s Aug 17 19:03:12 hrw|n900: you know google ;-D Aug 17 19:03:27 on 2.5G? Aug 17 19:03:35 m.google.com Aug 17 19:03:45 facepalm Aug 17 19:04:12 let me Aug 17 19:04:20 * MohammadAG smacks lcuk on the forehead Aug 17 19:04:22 gtfy Aug 17 19:04:41 ~wtf gtfy Aug 17 19:04:43 Gee... I don't know what gtfy means... Aug 17 19:04:54 ~lmgtfy Aug 17 19:04:55 i guess lmgtfy is http://lmgtfy.com/ Aug 17 19:05:08 i dont even understand the first page of google results Aug 17 19:05:11 lovely... portugese pages Aug 17 19:05:13 bbl Aug 17 19:05:14 lmgtfy :P Aug 17 19:05:23 and after figuring out and telling google that, no i did not want appmemo Aug 17 19:05:36 DocScrutinizer, just bloody explain it in a sentence :P Aug 17 19:05:37 mefo* Aug 17 19:05:39 [2010-08-17 21:03:36] let me... gtfy Aug 17 19:05:42 would have saved a page of crap Aug 17 19:05:43 :P Aug 17 19:05:47 DocScrutinizer, LOL Aug 17 19:07:48 fucking maemo5 idiotic naming of packages Aug 17 19:08:52 omg i just tried Angry Birds Aug 17 19:08:52 it's awesome Aug 17 19:09:03 is there a way to pirate the level packs? Aug 17 19:09:34 * luke-jr smacks kerio. hard. Aug 17 19:10:06 http://maemo.org/packages/view/apmefo/ Aug 17 19:10:17 kerio, gtfo Aug 17 19:10:22 hrw|n900: HTH Aug 17 19:10:29 i don't have a credit card, how can i buy it Aug 17 19:10:31 * MohammadAG smacks kerio harder Aug 17 19:10:31 :/ Aug 17 19:10:38 kerio, send me 2 euros Aug 17 19:10:52 kerio: buy a Visa gift card thing Aug 17 19:11:01 you'll have to pay shipping for those 2 euros Aug 17 19:11:16 possibly insurance too Aug 17 19:12:09 are euros coins or paper? Aug 17 19:12:25 Hi ! Maybe someone have already play with dbus org.freedesktop.Notificatio.Notify and could me explain why my notification message still display a number one even if i ve set the hint count to 200 Aug 17 19:12:28 both Aug 17 19:12:33 2€ is a single coin Aug 17 19:12:40 or 2x 1€ Aug 17 19:12:48 or, you know, smaller coin values Aug 17 19:12:53 or 4 x 0.5, but that's not the point Aug 17 19:12:58 smallest banknote is 5 Aug 17 19:13:03 DocScrutinizer: oh wow, the menu supports folders⁇ Aug 17 19:13:06 http://gitorious.org/khweeteur/khweeteur/blobs/master/khweeteur/__init__.py <- line 53 Aug 17 19:15:12 moin Aug 17 19:16:11 moinmoin Aug 17 19:16:28 moin DocScrutinizer Aug 17 19:16:54 DocScrutinizer: argh... appmefo != apmefo Aug 17 19:16:57 luke-jr: apmefo supports folders, and catorise supports braindamaged folders Aug 17 19:17:26 luke-jr: the menu as such once supported a 'more' folder Aug 17 19:17:47 I want the more folder back Aug 17 19:17:52 actually, the whole menu back Aug 17 19:17:59 I liked the smooth kinetic scrolling Aug 17 19:18:07 now it's full of friction Aug 17 19:18:30 hm Aug 17 19:18:48 I like the current menu tbh Aug 17 19:18:54 I just put all my common apps up top Aug 17 19:18:59 and scroll for less common Aug 17 19:19:00 MohammadAG, so revert a couple of git commits and have a look? Aug 17 19:19:11 see if you can have best of both Aug 17 19:19:32 bye Aug 17 19:20:00 lcuk, tried that once, failed miserably Aug 17 19:20:02 have a go at making the menu scroll like you are and operate smoothly as you expect Aug 17 19:20:05 ok Aug 17 19:20:07 I'll check if I can do it properly this time Aug 17 19:20:08 luke-jr: I just click one of my carefully named subfolders nstead of scrolling. Actually since apmefo I never scroll in appstarter menu Aug 17 19:20:10 well which bit did you fail at Aug 17 19:20:24 I changed values, compiled, installed, no change Aug 17 19:20:27 or was it just random lack of knowledge etc? Aug 17 19:20:31 ahh ok Aug 17 19:20:43 DocScrutinizer: but do you have your common apps at one touch? Aug 17 19:20:47 well you are mucking around in the right place already Aug 17 19:20:56 so just keep it in mind and have a bash Aug 17 19:20:56 luke-jr: yes Aug 17 19:21:07 luke-jr: of course Aug 17 19:24:29 lo Aug 17 19:34:29 * satmd thinks he doesn't like that guy named peer Aug 17 19:37:10 satmd, thats only a few Aug 17 19:38:12 * satmd forgot :P Aug 17 19:53:43 re Aug 17 19:53:59 DocScrutinizer: apmefo author should be shot twice Aug 17 19:55:27 ui is pain Aug 17 19:55:54 granted Aug 17 19:56:41 but integration into appstarter probably isn't so easy Aug 17 19:57:20 actually, it is Aug 17 19:57:30 since it uses the same app starter Aug 17 19:57:49 eh? Aug 17 19:57:51 looks like once wrote never used stuff Aug 17 19:58:07 DocScrutinizer, it just edits hildon.menu afaik Aug 17 19:58:17 exactly Aug 17 19:58:27 in ~/.config/menus/ Aug 17 19:58:48 so it's just writing a new file, it's not a whole new launcher Aug 17 19:59:03 and how du you suppose it's to be integrated in appstarter's drag-to-sort and other UI config stuff? Aug 17 19:59:29 hmm? Aug 17 19:59:35 you could edit the list manually Aug 17 19:59:42 the app just does it automatically Aug 17 19:59:49 cause that's where a config GUI of apmefo naturally would live in the end Aug 17 20:00:03 yes, subdir in .config/menus Aug 17 20:00:04 MohammadAG: you're completely OT Aug 17 20:00:16 On Topic? Aug 17 20:00:55 ~lart ranters Aug 17 20:00:55 * infobot drops a truckload of VAXen on ranters Aug 17 20:01:15 not ranting lol Aug 17 20:01:16 rant is easy and cheap, do it better! Aug 17 20:02:31 I miss full keyboard and vim... Aug 17 20:02:38 MohammadAG: yes. While we are discussing poor GUI of apmefo, you're drifting away on how it does what it does Aug 17 20:02:59 apmefo ui needs to be overriden Aug 17 20:03:08 and author shot again Aug 17 20:03:20 DocScrutinizer, k, I'll get back on topic, I'll shoot the author twice and once again Aug 17 20:04:00 and I'll shoot both of you, becuase of contraproductive rant about a great app Aug 17 20:04:17 apmefo is only useful to make a debian dir Aug 17 20:04:17 don't get me wrong, I use it Aug 17 20:04:30 DocScrutinizer: great is idea. ui is worse then awful Aug 17 20:04:53 hrw|n900: stfu, go and send patches Aug 17 20:04:57 disaster is not good word neither Aug 17 20:05:12 DocScrutinizer: next week, not earlier Aug 17 20:05:48 python + vim + n900 keyboard + me == fail Aug 17 20:05:54 or simply stay with brainfucked catorise Aug 17 20:06:20 :-( Aug 17 20:06:22 n900 keyboard is better than touch screen one, but compared to real keyboard it still isn't even close :P Aug 17 20:06:47 i guess he means the enter key issue? Aug 17 20:07:26 SwedeMike: I do not use onscreen one. never saw it even Aug 17 20:07:56 hrw|n900: I mean compared to an iphone or nexus one or alike which doesnt have a physical keyboard Aug 17 20:08:04 LOL @ zehojay's tweet Aug 17 20:08:05 it's awful to surf on talk.maemo.org these days. too much troll fud from mister sir #abill_uk Aug 17 20:08:17 he has a twitter tag now Aug 17 20:12:18 back to catorise. next try of apmefo in other week. Aug 17 20:12:50 Jaffa: after reinstall I have display sorted correctly Aug 17 20:15:38 bye Aug 17 20:32:47 any place to get apps besides the app manager and ovi store? Aug 17 20:33:20 apt-get Aug 17 20:33:43 doesnt that just list the apps already in app manager? Aug 17 20:33:55 no, the app manager shows only a subset of the programs Aug 17 20:34:26 oh i see. is there a way to browse apt-get Aug 17 20:34:47 though it's mainly just commandline unix tools tht are unlisted in app manager Aug 17 20:34:53 well, personally I just do apt-cache search Aug 17 20:34:55 and libraries that do nothing on their own Aug 17 20:35:05 mostly, probably Aug 17 20:35:17 * joga likes to install ttf-droid Aug 17 20:35:19 oh ok Aug 17 20:37:08 Does maemo run on anything besides n900 Aug 17 20:37:34 yea n810 n800 n700 Aug 17 20:38:19 anyone get sip working on any of the tablets? I keep getting an error trying to connect n900 to ekiga Aug 17 20:43:56 ccta-server: see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5342 ? (no "me too" comments please ;-) Aug 17 20:43:56 Bug 5342: IM and VoIP accounts: Cannot sign in to ekiga.net SIP. Aug 17 21:07:47 why is maemo.org so slow atm? Aug 17 21:08:08 because you forgot to put 10p in the machine Aug 17 21:08:18 you have to kick it a bit and it works Aug 17 21:08:22 lcuk: :P Aug 17 21:08:31 * MohammadAG opens a soda can in the 10p slot Aug 17 21:08:38 hmm Aug 17 21:08:40 choke on it *****! Aug 17 21:08:46 who wrote MaStory? Aug 17 21:08:48 * xnt14 googles Aug 17 21:08:50 yerga Aug 17 21:08:54 I think Aug 17 21:08:59 or was it derga Aug 17 21:09:05 no, sure there was a y Aug 17 21:09:12 MohammadAG: yerga, just checked Aug 17 21:09:22 not here atm... Aug 17 21:09:30 * DocScrutinizer (apt-get) points to tiny but somewhat usefull little script: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Aug 17 21:09:30 never seen him here Aug 17 21:09:43 ~seen yerga Aug 17 21:09:45 yerga <~yerga@Maemo/community/contributor/yerga> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 183d 9h 44m 56s ago, saying: 'but, well, news without source code aren't very fun'. Aug 17 21:10:00 hmm Aug 17 21:10:09 awesome quote though :D Aug 17 21:10:13 lol Aug 17 21:10:19 lol Aug 17 21:10:37 maemo wiki links fail in gnome-terminal... -_- Aug 17 21:13:08 xnt14, i made the calculator work on x86 happily :) Aug 17 21:13:19 lcuk: awesome, linky? :) Aug 17 21:13:57 I just got a Wyse thin client, it can run linux..., :) Aug 17 21:14:00 brb Aug 17 21:20:00 lcuk: calc ftw \o/ Aug 17 21:25:22 back Aug 17 21:25:35 front Aug 17 21:29:55 up, down Aug 17 21:30:12 strange, bottom Aug 17 21:32:33 hmm, not exactly. Must be a parallel universe. here it's up, down, top, bottom, strange and charm Aug 17 21:33:12 isnt that the konami code? Aug 17 21:33:35 that's very tiny flavours Aug 17 21:33:42 no its double up, ... Aug 17 21:36:24 ahh Aug 17 21:36:33 * lcuk needs to test the xscreensavers Aug 17 21:36:53 vlad has setup a wiki page listing all of them Aug 17 21:37:17 but theres like 200 of these random cool screensavers to run over Aug 17 21:38:38 the strange attractors screensaver is awesome Aug 17 21:39:08 it's random, but it hits the beat inmusic more often than real beatmatching visualizations Aug 17 21:39:13 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=789755#post789755 Aug 17 21:39:20 someone else helping to fill in the wiki \o/ Aug 17 21:39:36 thts just random goodness Aug 17 21:39:41 * DocScrutinizer suggests to rename screensaver to cellkiller Aug 17 21:39:49 DocScrutinizer, oh pffft Aug 17 21:39:57 its just another type of game for some folks Aug 17 21:40:13 xnt14 - did you know those are all working now ;) Aug 17 21:40:30 (xnt falls into the ricing out devices group of teens who have n900s :p) Aug 17 21:41:22 btw the plain black screensaver actually is a LCD screenkiller, as it eats your CFL backlight on laptop :-P Aug 17 21:41:48 DocScrutinizer, o_O Aug 17 21:41:55 back, was afk :P Aug 17 21:41:58 i am shocked ! does that mean you have installed them yourself Aug 17 21:42:03 :p Aug 17 21:42:07 CFL doesn't like on/off rounds Aug 17 21:42:26 no, the screensaver part itself is handled by backlight stuff already Aug 17 21:42:28 lcuk: :P Aug 17 21:42:35 I think monitoring that might be a bit lacking atm Aug 17 21:42:44 brb... Aug 17 21:42:48 xnt14, prove me wrong :P Aug 17 21:46:58 is there anyway to make taking photos faster on n900? generally there's also a lag, and the after shot view also takes a while. Aug 17 21:47:14 pigeon: disable the after shot view Aug 17 21:47:16 or try fcam Aug 17 21:48:49 kerio: i'll give fcam a go, thanks. Aug 17 21:50:25 fcam == fcamera right? Aug 17 21:51:53 yes Aug 17 21:52:36 lcuk: >>...and because running the cathode at too low a temperature drastically shortens the life of the lamps<< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_cathode Every start of a CCFL is inherently with cold cathodes, so frequently switching off LCD monitors is generally a bad idea Aug 17 21:53:29 if they are CCFL backlight Aug 17 21:57:33 DocScrutinizer, thats known anyway and handled as required by the backlight Aug 17 21:58:00 * lcuk tries to setup a simple http server on linux Aug 17 21:59:51 (handled as required) actually it's not. Enabling full off (incl backlight) screensaver on laptop, which kicks in after 5 min, and is causing several dozen starts of CCFL a day, will cause your laptop backlight fail before you might want to swap the whole device for a new one Aug 17 22:03:02 and I'm not sure this is commonly known Aug 17 22:03:37 btw same holds true for desktop LCD monitors of course Aug 17 22:17:26 so this Skype video codec problem… is there a reason we can't just install the video codec used by Skype 2.x? Aug 17 22:24:03 Has anyone seen this yet? http://www.neopwn.com/store.php : "Those that choose to support this (...) will personally receive (...) a binary patched, injection driver for wl1251 (...) The driver patches will be released as soon as the goal is met for covering the expenses for the development, which totals 1350 EUR." <- I think this is now a case for gpl-violations.org. Aug 17 22:25:17 how does that violate the gpl? Aug 17 22:26:51 the gpl says that you must only release source code when you distribute gpl software, and only to your customers if you're selling it Aug 17 22:28:25 tobis87: it is Aug 17 22:28:41 ieatlint: he's giving binaries w/o source Aug 17 22:29:06 have you got said binary to backup that statement? Aug 17 22:29:38 until you have the binary and he refuses your request for the source, it's not a violation Aug 17 22:30:26 and you have to pay $40 to make that claim -- can't request dick all if you're not a customer Aug 17 22:30:26 ieatlint: yes, it is Aug 17 22:30:30 he's obliged to OFFER the source Aug 17 22:30:37 you're not supposed to have to ask for it Aug 17 22:30:41 nope, only when he distributes and to he distributes it to Aug 17 22:30:49 correct, but he must offer it Aug 17 22:30:51 no, he's required to make it available and have a process for doing it Aug 17 22:31:00 and if he chooses to use an offer, he must honour it from ANYONE Aug 17 22:31:14 nope Aug 17 22:31:21 the "only distribute source to your customers" part requires including source with the binary up front Aug 17 22:31:21 He is giving out a modified piece of software, which is licenced under GPL in binary form only. We do not know if he will release the code in the future and it seems that he will only do this after he earned some money. Aug 17 22:31:22 he's doing nothing against the gpl at this moment Aug 17 22:31:36 ieatlint: according to that quote he is Aug 17 22:31:56 he's not until he refuses the source to someone who he distributed the binary to Aug 17 22:32:06 that may very well happen, but you're jumping the gun Aug 17 22:32:11 ieatlint: wrong Aug 17 22:32:27 ieatlint: if he doesn't including either the source or an offer when he distributes the binary, he is infringing Aug 17 22:32:40 if he includes an offer, he is obliged to honour it no matter who makes the request Aug 17 22:32:45 correct Aug 17 22:32:55 but he's not given out the binary Aug 17 22:33:23 and you don't know what he will actually include in the distribution when he makes it -- it could well include a gpl-compliant way to get the source Aug 17 22:33:28 simply put: you don't know Aug 17 22:33:41 Also - if it is binary patches, doesn't that rather change things? Aug 17 22:34:20 That is - for example - if the patches have not been developed using the source directly, but by editing the resulting binary, and running diff against it. Aug 17 22:34:26 SpeedEvil: it appears he's giving out a binary for a custom patched driver (additionally, are we just assuming this driver is gpl and not something like bsd?) Aug 17 22:36:02 ieatlint: anything Linux-derived MUST be GPL Aug 17 22:36:10 all kernelspace drivers are derived, in Linux Aug 17 22:36:15 go tell that to nvidia Aug 17 22:36:51 nvidia module taints the kernel Aug 17 22:37:22 uh, i don't get kernel taint warnings with it Aug 17 22:37:43 but it does appear that the base driver is gpl Aug 17 22:38:08 iirc nvidia `cheats' and grabs the gpl-only symbol(s?) it needs usin nm Aug 17 22:38:14 using even Aug 17 22:38:19 hi i ned some help with my nokia n900 please Aug 17 22:38:34 i m new to it as yet Aug 17 22:38:39 vickyk73, you could start by pointing out your problem ;) Aug 17 22:38:40 maybe I have an old module, but dmesg | grep -i taints gives me: "nvidia: module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel." Aug 17 22:38:55 nox-: haha, yeah, i wondered about that.. you "compile" the driver, or seemingly a gpl buffer between the kernel and proprietary code Aug 17 22:39:19 tobis87: "dmesg | grep -i taint" gives me nada Aug 17 22:39:22 yeah it links a binary blob Aug 17 22:39:25 ieatlint: I'd sue nVidia if I had the resources. Aug 17 22:39:41 oh, wait, consider my statement unconfirmed Aug 17 22:39:48 nox-: cheating won't lessen infrignement Aug 17 22:39:58 i installed nokia ovi suite , and there was new update available so it asked me to back up all the data and stuff i think it backed i up twice when it was done installing the new software and i installed the backup data back in to my phone my wifi settings had disappeared Aug 17 22:40:00 my kernel log has filled so it doesn't have any messages from the nvidia module loading Aug 17 22:40:04 well fglrx isnt really any better Aug 17 22:40:10 luke-jr: or the standing to sue? Aug 17 22:40:24 now the thing my IT guy had put them in for me and he is being an ass now and don't want to put it back for me Aug 17 22:40:35 ieatlint: copyright is a resource Aug 17 22:40:36 ☺ Aug 17 22:40:39 only the infringed can sue, and well, if you are the one who wrote any of the gpl hooks nvidia uses, my apologies :) Aug 17 22:40:39 is there a way to get it back from the backup which i still have on my pc Aug 17 22:40:55 ieatlint: try, grep nvidia /var/log/syslog.0 Aug 17 22:41:31 tobis87: i run syslog-ng, but the messages file has no taint warning Aug 17 22:41:41 it also has cycled, damnit Aug 17 22:41:46 let me look at logrotated stuff Aug 17 22:41:58 so can anyone help me??? Aug 17 22:42:00 * luke-jr grumbles at Linux not merging Greg's patch to block infringing modules Aug 17 22:42:04 Linus* Aug 17 22:42:40 tobis87: ok, i am indeed wrong there... it does have that warning: "nvidia: module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel." is present Aug 17 22:43:35 vickyk73: Sorry - unsure whatr format the backups are in. Aug 17 22:43:41 luke-jr: the nvidia module is bad, but worse is flash, acroread, nerolinux, real player and all of this other crap Aug 17 22:43:51 N900_2010-08-03.nbu Aug 17 22:44:02 tobis87: the latter don't infringe on any copyrights AFAIK Aug 17 22:44:03 nvidia module has random access to kernel. Aug 17 22:44:11 others don't Aug 17 22:44:17 tobis87: the latter also can be ignored and left uninstalled Aug 17 22:44:43 SpeedEvil N900_2010-08-03.nbu Aug 17 22:45:02 vickyk73: Sorry - I mean what's the internal format - I have no idea whart a nbu file is. Aug 17 22:45:14 SpeedEvil: not just kernel Aug 17 22:45:17 anything and everything Aug 17 22:45:24 luke-jr: yeah - that's what I meant Aug 17 22:45:42 nVidia module could destroy your BIOS and HD firmware if it wanted Aug 17 22:46:18 yeah, but at least i'd have a company to sue if they did Aug 17 22:46:25 luke-jr: no, but they are still bad. flash and skype for example, at least if you badly need them. Aug 17 22:46:32 well stuff you run as root can too, which doesnt require gpl Aug 17 22:46:46 tobis87: no reason to need Flash Aug 17 22:46:59 Skype is a compromise I recently had to make much to my disappointment in the free alternatives Aug 17 22:47:14 nox-: sandbox Aug 17 22:47:28 vickyk73, eep Aug 17 22:47:54 the backup format doesnt actually sound familiar, was that ovi that did it? Aug 17 22:48:51 on a more practical level, how hard can it be to add injection for wl1251? Aug 17 22:49:08 luke-jr: yes, you could use gnash, which does not work at all. even the iphone fanboys have hacked flash to get it working, while steve said they don't need it. http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/08/17/1735256/Six-Reasons-Why-Flash-Isnt-Going-Away Aug 17 22:49:21 I cast my vote for implementing it freely to teach these guys a lesson :P Aug 17 22:49:39 tobis87: or you could just boycott all Flash content like I have for years Aug 17 22:49:40 no loss Aug 17 22:49:57 the flash camp all have massive chips on their shoulders these days Aug 17 22:50:04 luke-jr: you never use youtube? Aug 17 22:50:09 and they are all directing it at the html5 watwg and w3c committees Aug 17 22:50:13 alterego: YouTube supports HTML5 Aug 17 22:50:19 quite annoying, actually Aug 17 22:50:35 vickyk73, 497 people can answer any better than one person hidden away Aug 17 22:50:42 luke-jr: if firefox stable supports propper html5, i will remove flash, because youtube supports it. Aug 17 22:50:49 tobis87: Firefox sucks Aug 17 22:50:50 I offered you a little of my insight - that backup format does not make sense Aug 17 22:50:55 maybe you should hold off on the attacking of the guy until he actually violates the gpl here, and in the interim, assume good faith Aug 17 22:51:00 is it only wifi settings that have vanished vickyk73 Aug 17 22:51:01 i used nokia ovi suite Aug 17 22:51:04 to do backup Aug 17 22:51:07 Wow, it's quite weird using the N900 without haptic feedback .. Aug 17 22:51:12 yes lcuk Aug 17 22:51:21 that does seem very odd Aug 17 22:51:30 rest everything came back Aug 17 22:51:35 because ovi should not be able to modify settings of your running system? Aug 17 22:51:37 i still have the backup file on my pc Aug 17 22:51:38 note that most programmers live in this grey area, and fanatical "he wants to make money off his work!" attacks tend to turn people away from open source Aug 17 22:51:41 luke-jr: what do you use, lynx? :) Aug 17 22:51:52 vickyk73, can't you just put the password in when you connect to the AP? Aug 17 22:52:04 no that's the problem Aug 17 22:52:07 ieatlint: he's published intent to infringe. I see no reason to presume good faith. Aug 17 22:52:11 my it guy know the password Aug 17 22:52:11 tobis87: Konqueror Aug 17 22:52:16 and he refusing to put it again Aug 17 22:52:20 luke-jr: where? Aug 17 22:52:20 tobis87: if I really want YouTube, Chromium Aug 17 22:52:21 ieatlint: exactly Aug 17 22:52:25 ieatlint: the quoted page Aug 17 22:52:38 "Those that choose to support this (…) will personally receive (…) a binary patched, injection driver for wl1251 (…) The driver patches will be released as soon as the goal is met for covering the expenses for the development, which totals 1350 EUR." Aug 17 22:52:47 you're making assumptions Aug 17 22:52:53 nope Aug 17 22:52:58 nowhere does it explicitly state that those who pay don't get the patches with the binary Aug 17 22:53:07 if he had true intent to infringe, why would he list that on the annoucement page Aug 17 22:53:11 seriously. Aug 17 22:53:13 it's not unreasonable to assume he means they will be released to everyone for free after recouping costs Aug 17 22:53:17 vickyk73, I am actually flummoxed about this backup you said it performed, because the N900 only exposes its data portion Aug 17 22:53:31 and until you have any proof to the contrary, you're just on a witch hunt Aug 17 22:53:35 so that's why i need ur help please Aug 17 22:53:41 I think you are just going to have to sweet talk your it guy round slowly Aug 17 22:53:43 or anyone else Aug 17 22:53:45 luke-jr: I tried to compile chromium, but my glibc is too old, i'm lucky to have backported firefox. konqueror = kde4? Aug 17 22:53:51 I have tried Aug 17 22:53:56 * lcuk nods Aug 17 22:54:02 But once he makes up his mind he can be an ass Aug 17 22:54:08 ieatlint: I was banned from #pentoo for pointing out the infringement Aug 17 22:54:25 luke-jr: i had to compile it, but it did not work, but not because of the old glibc Aug 17 22:54:33 that sounds pretty conclusive :P Aug 17 22:54:37 tobis87: so stop using obsolete crap Aug 17 22:55:08 ok is there a way to check the current wifi password save on the n900? Aug 17 22:55:18 saved* Aug 17 22:55:38 luke-jr: but everything works, all chips inside my pc, i even use my tpm chip as a random number generator. Aug 17 22:56:53 luke-jr: i had to backport some kernel modules, and hack some defines in it, but it works. Aug 17 22:57:55 ok is there a way to check the current wifi password saved on the n900? Aug 17 22:58:31 not using the UI, there are mechanisms using the command line however but its not trivial Aug 17 22:58:58 * lcuk goes to sleep though Aug 17 22:59:14 gnite #all \o Aug 17 22:59:20 lcuk Aug 17 23:00:02 !ping Aug 17 23:06:18 Interesting, so QtMobility will have a Camera module which seems to be a simple fcam like api Aug 17 23:06:37 That is, it doesn't look as powerful as fcam .. Aug 17 23:08:20 alterego, if the api is usable though, then there is potential to move fcam within qtm itself or some such Aug 17 23:08:39 or that would be my understanding? Aug 17 23:08:45 development for the pdf viewers seem to be very slow, I hope things will pick up more quickly soon Aug 17 23:09:40 smhar, make noice towards the pdf devs then :P Aug 17 23:10:10 * lcuk isnt here though now Aug 17 23:11:04 it is a shame that after all hte time since N900 -and PR1.2) has been released, we still do not have a decent pdf viewer :-( Aug 17 23:11:34 smhar: WORKS FOR ME Aug 17 23:11:34 * lcuk used to generate and read pdfs in a past life Aug 17 23:12:22 nook index,bookmark and ... is still missing Aug 17 23:12:38 evinc is slow Aug 17 23:15:47 lcuk: Well, I guess, as fcam isn't very "Qt". Aug 17 23:46:02 Interesting, looks like OpenGL uses full colour capabilities of display. Aug 17 23:52:11 hi where can i find the save wifi password on the nokia n900? Aug 18 00:03:36 It's in gconf Aug 18 00:03:45 gconftool can tell you Aug 18 00:05:02 SpeedEvil1, is there a specific branch that vickyk73 needs to look on? Aug 18 00:05:05 hmm Aug 18 00:05:12 It seems not to be ... Aug 18 00:05:16 * SpeedEvil1 is confused. Aug 18 00:06:50 I'm sure it was in gconf - byt grep -r mypass /etc isn't showing it Aug 18 00:11:14 might be obfuscated? Aug 18 00:12:13 Possibly Aug 18 00:12:16 It diddn't used to be Aug 18 01:07:26 hallo maemoites Aug 18 01:50:41 hey johnx! Aug 18 01:56:25 how can i install vlan player on maemo? Aug 18 01:57:29 hmm Aug 18 01:58:41 actually i just want to install this codec Microsoft Windows Media VC-1 Aug 18 01:59:17 this is very creepy.. a song that i've never herd of and that i didn't download just appeared on my n900's mediaplayer playlist O_O Aug 18 01:59:43 actually ive been told vlc does run on n900... Aug 18 01:59:46 mplayer runs too Aug 18 02:00:08 well, cvlc Aug 18 02:00:12 so no gui Aug 18 02:02:09 b-man`: there are 5 or so default songs Aug 18 02:04:13 b-man`: random play? or least used playlist? I bet something along that line Aug 18 02:05:33 eMMC image comes with 2(?) video clips as well Aug 18 02:09:00 i have decoders support package installed, is there another codecs package that i dont know about? Aug 18 02:09:20 also - ffplay works fine too Aug 18 02:11:18 ffplay? that still exists? Aug 18 02:12:28 yes. Aug 18 02:12:39 It's the only thing I can find that will play some flash content. Aug 18 02:12:42 Oddly. Aug 18 02:12:55 not even mplayer? Aug 18 02:13:55 nope. Aug 18 02:14:03 First frame, then stalls. Aug 18 02:14:07 oh Aug 18 02:29:16 SpeedEvil: i know Aug 18 02:38:24 how do you run vlc from command line, can someone link me to the commands? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 18 02:59:57 2010