**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 26 02:59:57 2010
Aug 26 03:43:07 <ghostnik11> hi, I am not a nokia or maemo user but i am interested in becoming one but before i can i must find out if nokia/maemo phones can do my call setup
Aug 26 03:44:19 <ghostnik11> so wanted to know if there is a callback mechanism application for nokia/maemo phones using google voic
Aug 26 03:44:23 <ghostnik11> google voice
Aug 26 03:53:31 <SpeedEvil> As far as I'm aware nobodies done anything google voice related yet.
Aug 26 03:53:58 <SpeedEvil> Not looked at it - as voice hasn't worked in the UK
Aug 26 03:54:55 <ghostnik11> speedevil: thanks for the comment, and i am sorry i thought that n900 users where using dialcentral app to make callback calls with google voice
Aug 26 03:57:20 <ghostnik11> the thing is i use google voice and a sip client on my android powered phone to make free calls over data eliminating my cellular min usage and now that i have the set up configured perfectly on a htc magic low end android smart phone i wanted to get a power nokia smart phone as it would more than likely give me better call quality through data connection on mobile cellular network
Aug 26 03:58:14 <DocScrutinizer51> aiui google voice has been gizmo(5) has been gizmo project has always been SIP
Aug 26 03:59:48 <DocScrutinizer51> and - if this might not have been clear - maemo has a working quite nicely integrated SIP client
Aug 26 04:00:13 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: I found out about how to do it through gizmo to late as gizmo doesn't let new users register as I think google saw what people were doing and getting free calls without using cellular minutes and had to stop that process
Aug 26 04:01:14 <DocScrutinizer51> doesn't sound like a reasonable story to me
Aug 26 04:01:19 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: i figured out a way without sipsocerey and gizmo and it works, its just that i need a more powerful phone
Aug 26 04:01:29 <Muelli> ghostnik11: how did you set up your callback thing?
Aug 26 04:02:38 <ghostnik11> muelli: well on the android market someone a developer created google voice callback application that simulates you actually going into google voice web page and picking the contact number and pressing call
Aug 26 04:03:11 <DocScrutinizer51> yuck
Aug 26 04:03:21 <Muelli> hm. okay. I don't know how Google voice actually works.
Aug 26 04:03:32 <ghostnik11> okay
Aug 26 04:03:48 <ghostnik11> can i talk just like this without putting peoples names in front
Aug 26 04:03:58 <ghostnik11> or do i have to do that as a rule of the channel
Aug 26 04:04:04 <MohammadAG> morning #maemo
Aug 26 04:04:23 <Muelli> But how is that a callback mechanism? I mean, is that any different from how you'd regularly use Google Voice?
Aug 26 04:04:24 <DocScrutinizer51> depends
Aug 26 04:04:58 <Muelli> And writing a thing that scrapes a google page should be relatively easy. Hence, shuold be quickly done for Maemo.
Aug 26 04:05:23 <ghostnik11> muelli well what it does is it interupts your outgoing call and calls your google voice number and then you hear your cell phone ring and when you accept, it then lets the outgoing call continue
Aug 26 04:05:36 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders what for you'd need such incredible crap
Aug 26 04:06:46 <Muelli> hm ghostnik11. So you use your dialing/phonebook UI normally? How would be able to not use Google Voice then?
Aug 26 04:07:16 <ghostnik11> yeah i use my dial/phonebook ui normally
Aug 26 04:07:34 <shinkamui> lol
Aug 26 04:07:39 <shinkamui> I haven't been around for a while
Aug 26 04:07:41 <DocScrutinizer51> well, I do same when doing SIP calls fron N900
Aug 26 04:07:42 <shinkamui> and this is what I come back to
Aug 26 04:07:43 <shinkamui> :-D
Aug 26 04:07:47 <shinkamui> nonsense
Aug 26 04:08:02 <ghostnik11> and what happens with this google voice callback app is that you tell it to take over as your main dialer so it basically overides the built in dialer so
Aug 26 04:08:29 <DocScrutinizer51> just I don't need any special google voice BS for that
Aug 26 04:08:38 <shinkamui> sounds like you found the worst possible way to use google voice and are trying to shoehorn it onto a community that doesn't like bullshit
Aug 26 04:08:41 <shinkamui> bullstuffs
Aug 26 04:08:51 <asj> can the n900 dial out via google talk now?
Aug 26 04:08:53 <ghostnik11> when i make a call you see the google voice callback app come up and say logging in to google voice, then registering call back then it rings my phone
Aug 26 04:08:54 * shinkamui fliches
Aug 26 04:09:17 <DocScrutinizer51> ghostnik11: N900 dialer HASmsip!!! no fsckng need to override
Aug 26 04:10:34 <ghostnik11> shinkamui: i am not trying to blow any bullshit, and i would never do that to disrespect your channel, thats not what i am about, i am about trying to learn a new way to do this on a nokia phone when i can get my hands on one and leave my android phone
Aug 26 04:10:54 <shinkamui> lol!
Aug 26 04:11:10 <shinkamui> please proceed.  Forgive my rudeness
Aug 26 04:11:52 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: excuse my stupidness as you are probably a super developer and i am not, i am just an end user who tries to apply developers work to make my life easier but what is n900 dialer hasmsip
Aug 26 04:12:39 <DocScrutinizer51> is ia 'HAS sip' with anm erratic m in place of ' '
Aug 26 04:13:23 <SpeedEvil> SIP is integrated into the normal dialer.
Aug 26 04:13:35 <SpeedEvil> You can place a call via SIP as easily as a normal call
Aug 26 04:13:58 <ghostnik11> speedevil: but my sip address i only have it as an incoming call setup and don't have it as a outgoing call setup
Aug 26 04:14:15 <ghostnik11> my sip account is with iptel.org
Aug 26 04:14:18 <MohammadAG> need PR1.2 firmware packages for 002 and 003 firmware variants
Aug 26 04:14:27 <pigeon> does anyone know or can find out the install size of instinctive (the app)?
Aug 26 04:14:56 <pigeon> i keep getting not enough space when installing it...
Aug 26 04:15:16 <doc|home> ghostnik11: then you need to set up with another provider. I use diamondcard.us
Aug 26 04:16:04 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: go dl them then
Aug 26 04:16:16 <ghostnik11> doc|home: well i don't use another provider because I can cut that cost by making the outgoing call with google voice as it is free to call the states and Canada
Aug 26 04:16:31 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, they're on the SSU repo and each country variant has a different one
Aug 26 04:16:42 <MohammadAG> apparently you can't add one for the other
Aug 26 04:16:43 <doc|home> ghostnik11: then what's the problem?
Aug 26 04:16:59 <MohammadAG> mp-fremantle-002-pr
Aug 26 04:17:02 <MohammadAG> mp-fremantle-003-pr
Aug 26 04:17:07 <MohammadAG> got -generic-pr
Aug 26 04:17:56 <ghostnik11> doc|home: the problem is i need an app that will do the process for me, instead of me going into a web browser every time and selecting a contact and pressing call on the google voice web page
Aug 26 04:18:26 <doc|home> ghostnik11: looks like you found a new project
Aug 26 04:19:27 <ghostnik11> doc|home: basically i am asking for something similar to a dial plan in a sense but is intergrated with my contacts from the phone
Aug 26 04:19:37 <DocScrutinizer51> excuse me... (runs for bathroom, puking)
Aug 26 04:19:48 <pigeon> sorry, should be "instinctiv "
Aug 26 04:20:18 <doc|home> ghostnik11: if none exists then it looks like you've found a new itch to scratch for yourself.
Aug 26 04:21:11 <DocScrutinizer51> there's roundabout 6 dozen SIP providers allowing free calls to US
Aug 26 04:22:39 <DocScrutinizer51> and, as mentioned err elaborated above, google voice was gizmo and so should also be usual SIP
Aug 26 04:22:43 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: i know i have tested some of them like voipdiscount and others but the thing with those is that
Aug 26 04:24:29 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer51: in the fine small print they say you get this much free calling per month based on an ip address but don't tell you that there are others with the same ip address so you end up going over your actually minutes allowed even if you personally didn't
Aug 26 04:24:30 <doc|home> the enter key: not substitution for commas
Aug 26 04:25:12 <doc|home> ghostnik11: then those providers are idiots
Aug 26 04:25:17 <doc|home> look for others
Aug 26 04:25:41 <DocScrutinizer51> never seen such silly fineprint. Maybe you just should reread
Aug 26 04:26:20 <MohammadAG> need - packages - now
Aug 26 04:26:26 <MohammadAG> community ssu depends on it :P
Aug 26 04:27:59 <SpeedEvil> ghostnik11: http://maemo.org/packages/view/dialcentral/ ?
Aug 26 04:28:58 <ghostnik11> speedevil: yeah i was looking at that and was interested in it but wanted to know how it worked and as i don't own an n900 wanted to ask if someone here has used dialcentral and how was it
Aug 26 04:29:49 <SpeedEvil> Don't have google voic
Aug 26 04:29:50 <SpeedEvil> e
Aug 26 04:29:59 <ghostnik11> speedevil: for example if dialcentral has the google voice callback feature then it will work perfectly and i wanted to know if it only worked with gizmo users
Aug 26 04:30:14 <pigeon> hmm...
Aug 26 04:30:53 <pigeon> apt-worker: free space (/home/) = 110739456, apt-worker: You don't have enough free space in /home, required disk space: 3709960, result code = 7
Aug 26 04:36:10 <DocScrutinizer51> ~trout apt
Aug 26 04:36:42 <SpeedEvil> ghostnik11: check for a tmo thread on dialcentral or a homepage
Aug 26 04:36:50 * infobot slaps apt around a bit with a large trout!
Aug 26 04:37:08 <pigeon> wow, some lag there...
Aug 26 04:37:23 <SpeedEvil> http://gc-dialer.garage.maemo.org/
Aug 26 04:37:26 <SpeedEvil> or just read that
Aug 26 04:41:32 <ghostnik11> speedevil: read it and it doesn't say anything about a callback mechanism included, for example i am google voice app on my android phone and when you place a call through it, it usually connects you to a google number or a number that routes the call through your cellular minutes this way the carriers still earn there money,
Aug 26 04:41:40 <DocScrutinizer> free minutes based on IP addr - tzz. I'd guess that applies for anonymous usage, as it really doesn't make *any* sense if you register with the SIP provider and properly authenticate
Aug 26 04:42:15 <ghostnik11> docscrutinizer: have you heard about the betamax user and the FUP policy
Aug 26 04:42:21 <ghostnik11> users
Aug 26 04:42:40 <DocScrutinizer> no
Aug 26 04:42:49 <ghostnik11> can i put a link to the page about it
Aug 26 04:42:53 <DocScrutinizer> and I bet I'm not interested in it
Aug 26 04:43:06 <ghostnik11> okay cool
Aug 26 04:43:35 <pigeon> i cleaned up about 300MB off /home and it's finally installing... :\
Aug 26 04:44:42 <DocScrutinizer> pigeon: you really should kick out that greedy game eating up >1GB of your /opt
Aug 26 04:45:14 <pigeon> well, that's close to what i did... i moved away openarena's data ;)
Aug 26 04:45:32 <TermanaN900> nom nom nom - data!
Aug 26 04:45:39 <DocScrutinizer> pigeon: probably send it back to maintainer/devel, together with an angry hornet hive
Aug 26 04:46:10 <TermanaN900> DocScrutinizer isn't from the ghetto. He ain't no (game) player
Aug 26 04:46:16 <SpeedEvil> Well - mail the autrhor. Or find some thread of discussion on it , or ...
Aug 26 04:47:14 <TermanaN900> or do nothing
Aug 26 04:47:29 <DocScrutinizer> pigeon: I toldya bout `du /opt|sort -n`, didn't I?
Aug 26 04:47:53 <pigeon> well i did du --max-depth=1 -x /home/opt | sort -n
Aug 26 04:49:30 <pigeon> apart from /opt/maemo, the biggest i've got is icedtea6 and sygic
Aug 26 04:49:38 <ghostnik11> speedevil: i am thinking of just asking a question to the users who use this app in the maemo forums
Aug 26 04:49:53 <pigeon> still waiting for australia sygic map :(
Aug 26 04:51:32 <pigeon> glad that i'm not the only one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59066
Aug 26 05:03:47 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, sygic being greedy? I guess they didn't read about 'installing in opt and mydocs' in maemo wiki
Aug 26 05:04:32 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd call that a bug, and pester them to deliver decent software for my money
Aug 26 05:04:38 <Stskeeps> mydocs makes sense considering their data load
Aug 26 05:04:42 <Stskeeps> wouldn't fit in /opt
Aug 26 05:05:04 <Stskeeps> and their installation method of maps
Aug 26 05:07:02 <johnx> morning humans
Aug 26 05:07:30 <Stskeeps> morn
Aug 26 05:07:50 <johnx> I looked at contextkit
Aug 26 05:07:59 <johnx> It looks like everything I had in mind, except more
Aug 26 05:10:44 <johnx> I still like the idea of hooking up something like dbus-scripts to it, for apps that don't use it natively, but do except commands over dbus
Aug 26 05:11:05 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Aug 26 05:11:31 <johnx> which means I should get some distro running that includes contextkit :)
Aug 26 05:16:38 <DocScrutinizer51> pigeon: opt/maemo was large? that's something that needs further investigations
Aug 26 05:17:04 <pigeon> DocScrutinizer51: well i think a lot of packages have things installed there.
Aug 26 05:17:13 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Aug 26 05:17:13 <pigeon> that's why it's quite big.
Aug 26 05:17:38 <pigeon> my whole /opt/maemo is 375MB
Aug 26 05:18:01 <DocScrutinizer51> mine 70
Aug 26 05:18:23 <pigeon> wormux-data is 107MB
Aug 26 05:18:28 <pwnguin> hrm. now that google talk is basically live for everyone in canada / us, has anyone figured out if there's SIP settings one can use for it?
Aug 26 05:18:42 <johnx> yup. was just about to say, tends to get used by games rather heavily
Aug 26 05:19:33 <pigeon> a lot of them for me are installed, tried, and left it there, never really played them again :)
Aug 26 05:19:56 <pigeon> sometimes it's handy when i need to show people.
Aug 26 05:24:26 <DocScrutinizer51> pigeon: for such purpose I usually fire up HAM and install something that will impress them. The 5min to load I use to explain to them it's just because there's such a lot of nice apps and it needs to download the descriptions of all of them now :-P
Aug 26 05:24:43 <pigeon> ;)
Aug 26 05:30:03 <DocScrutinizer51> if the people to entertain are of the tech savy kind, you also can explain about apt-get is lightning fast, compared to HAM, But you want to show the nice GUI of App Manager, incl the pkg descriptions :-)
Aug 26 05:42:52 <slonopotamus_> slonopotamus: err...
Aug 26 05:43:29 <slonopotamus> !
Aug 26 05:48:45 <DocScrutinizer51> mhm
Aug 26 05:49:32 <DocScrutinizer51> slonopotamus: do you need IRC to talk to yourself? :-P
Aug 26 05:51:13 <ruskie> lol
Aug 26 05:54:36 <slonopotamus> DocScrutinizer, and endles rivers of coffee
Aug 26 05:54:52 <slonopotamus> s#les#less#
Aug 26 06:40:25 <ebzzry> On Fremantle, is there a way to make the system notify me of 'Conversations' messages, even if the window to which the message comes from is in focus?
Aug 26 06:44:39 <johnx> you mean like flash the LED?
Aug 26 07:05:21 <ebzzry> johnx: Sorry for being ambiguous. I'm looking for audible notifications.
Aug 26 07:06:53 <pigeon> i thought it already has that
Aug 26 07:09:38 <ebzzry> pigeon: It doesn't ding when the window is in focus.
Aug 26 07:09:57 <pigeon> iirc, it still makes a sound, but different sound.
Aug 26 07:10:08 <pigeon> like a knock knock sound, much softer one.
Aug 26 07:12:58 <pigeon> i could be wrong though... and i couldn't test it right now.
Aug 26 07:13:49 <johnx> ah, you're right
Aug 26 07:14:18 <pigeon> so i was wrong then?
Aug 26 07:14:27 <johnx> I think you're right
Aug 26 07:14:34 <johnx> but I can't find the setting
Aug 26 07:14:55 <johnx> maybe it gets set as part of the that 'system sounds' 'level 1' thing?
Aug 26 07:15:12 <pigeon> probably, i always find that mysterious...
Aug 26 07:15:27 <pigeon> it's like an "everything else" sound setting :)
Aug 26 07:15:59 <mece_> im's knock, emails ding and messages dingding.
Aug 26 07:18:36 <ebzzry> level 1 and level 2 is too narrow to be defined as a decent setting for things like that
Aug 26 07:19:22 <johnx> I don't even know WTF level 1 means?
Aug 26 07:19:33 <pigeon> i believe it's volume level.
Aug 26 07:19:34 <johnx> Like do I get the sounds from the first level of super mario bros? or ... ?
Aug 26 07:19:39 <johnx> aaah,
Aug 26 07:19:45 <johnx> but doesn't it have a volume slider next to it?
Aug 26 07:19:51 * johnx checks
Aug 26 07:19:56 <pigeon> no
Aug 26 07:22:33 <ebzzry> no
Aug 26 07:22:55 <ebzzry> Sometimes I miss messages because of this behavior.
Aug 26 07:37:02 <crashanddie> I just had the CEO come in my office and apologise that they won't be able to purchase an iMac for me
Aug 26 07:37:13 <jacekowski> oO
Aug 26 07:37:15 <Stskeeps> cos they're firing you?
Aug 26 07:37:16 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 26 07:37:21 <kerio> omg
Aug 26 07:37:28 <kerio> no iMac... :(
Aug 26 07:37:40 <kerio> ask for a macbook
Aug 26 07:37:44 <crashanddie> I never asked for one -- they just assumed I wanted Apple hardware because I'm temporarily using my macbookpro considering I don't have anything from the company yet
Aug 26 07:37:44 <SpeedEvil> They have a corporate deal with Gillette?
Aug 26 07:37:45 <jacekowski> i already have to many computers
Aug 26 07:38:46 <crashanddie> I'm starting to love this gig :D
Aug 26 07:39:32 <crashanddie> hot or not? http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/cars-amp-girls-blonde-flanks-lamborghini-lp560-tt/cg_05.jpg
Aug 26 07:39:36 <kerio> crashanddie: you're using your own laptop
Aug 26 07:39:39 <kerio> you're lucky
Aug 26 07:39:51 <crashanddie> I guess?
Aug 26 07:40:09 <crashanddie> I'm just lacking a nice big screen and a couple gigabytes of RAM, but yeah, otherwise I'm lucky
Aug 26 07:40:13 <jacekowski> i wouldn't ever use my own tools for work
Aug 26 07:40:21 <johnx> crashanddie, lambos are kinda meh to me
Aug 26 07:40:43 <crashanddie> johnx: you're more the kind of guy who'll buy the bugatti watch for $260k?
Aug 26 07:41:05 <kerio> i'd hit that
Aug 26 07:41:15 <johnx> kerio, better have good insurance ...
Aug 26 07:41:23 <Circassian> better to have
Aug 26 07:41:34 <kerio> no, the blonde chick
Aug 26 07:41:41 <johnx> crashanddie, I wouldn't mind a pagani
Aug 26 07:41:43 <kerio> why are you focusing on the car, you faggots
Aug 26 07:41:52 <crashanddie> johnx: or the Lexus LFA?
Aug 26 07:41:57 <crashanddie> (don't mind the name)
Aug 26 07:42:09 <johnx> crashanddie, GT-R over the Lexus, even though the Lexus is darn neat
Aug 26 07:42:25 <crashanddie> eh? GT-R over the LFA?
Aug 26 07:42:34 <crashanddie> HAVE YOU SEEN THE FIGHTER JET COCKPIT???
Aug 26 07:42:41 <jacekowski> if i would buy car to drive around i would go for subaru impreza
Aug 26 07:43:05 <mece_> the lfa is wicked.
Aug 26 07:43:07 <johnx> jacekowski, as in the WRX or STi or just an impreza? :P
Aug 26 07:43:11 <jacekowski> if i would buy car to show off it would be either ferrari or maybe lamborghini
Aug 26 07:43:15 <jacekowski> johnx: as in WRX
Aug 26 07:43:25 <jacekowski> but juz impreza would do
Aug 26 07:43:34 <crashanddie> johnx: http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/parmigiani_fleurier_bugatti_super_sport/parmigiani_fleurier_bugatti_super_sport_001.jpg
Aug 26 07:43:45 <johnx> jacekowski, ah, cause if you want a 96 impreza, I've got one to sell you :)
Aug 26 07:43:47 <crashanddie> johnx: going for just $259000
Aug 26 07:44:16 <johnx> crashanddie, didn't top gear test both the LFA and GT-R?
Aug 26 07:44:23 <crashanddie> jacekowski: I'd recommend the STi
Aug 26 07:44:33 <jacekowski> johnx: i wouldn't be able to afford to insure it yet
Aug 26 07:44:50 <jacekowski> johnx: i'm 21 and no no claims discount
Aug 26 07:45:07 <jacekowski> johnx: and already done one claim of my insurance
Aug 26 07:45:13 <johnx> jacekowski, bummer. I pay my parents and stay on their plan. ssssshhhh :)
Aug 26 07:45:13 <jacekowski> johnx: which was clearly my fault
Aug 26 07:45:22 <crashanddie> johnx: yeah, last season Top Gear played with the LFA, and a couple seasons ago they did a challenge across Japan in the GT-R
Aug 26 07:45:26 <jacekowski> i pay £1200/year for small 1.3l
Aug 26 07:45:33 <crashanddie> jacekowski: lmao
Aug 26 07:45:50 <crashanddie> I pay 200eur for my motorbike :D
Aug 26 07:45:58 <crashanddie> which is only a 0.1L engine
Aug 26 07:46:00 <crashanddie> but still
Aug 26 07:46:02 <johnx> crashanddie, but they had power lap times for both :) GT-R had 1:19 to the LFA's 1:22 ... but the LFA lap was wet so it doesn't mean anything
Aug 26 07:46:18 <jacekowski> well, 0.6l motorbike would cost me about 15k to insure
Aug 26 07:46:23 <jacekowski> per year
Aug 26 07:46:31 <crashanddie> because you don't have the licence?
Aug 26 07:46:33 <crashanddie> :P
Aug 26 07:46:34 <jacekowski> i do
Aug 26 07:46:43 <crashanddie> you have your full bike licence?
Aug 26 07:46:46 <jacekowski> no
Aug 26 07:46:54 <jacekowski> ehh
Aug 26 07:46:57 <jacekowski> i have just car license
Aug 26 07:47:05 <jacekowski> but i when i checked prices i said that i have license
Aug 26 07:47:15 <crashanddie> ah yes, but they check records mate
Aug 26 07:47:19 <jacekowski> no
Aug 26 07:47:30 <crashanddie> erhm, yeah, they do.
Aug 26 07:47:35 <crashanddie> well, depends on the company
Aug 26 07:47:39 <jacekowski> so why they ask if i have license
Aug 26 07:47:41 <jacekowski> and stuff
Aug 26 07:47:49 <jacekowski> like how many accidents i had
Aug 26 07:47:56 <jacekowski> besides, they can't check my records
Aug 26 07:47:57 <crashanddie> did you give your car licence date and the supposed bike licence date?
Aug 26 07:48:07 <jacekowski> they don't have access to dvla database
Aug 26 07:48:28 <crashanddie> then they do a cross reference on that, and if they can't find anything, they put max prices, because they assume you've never been insured
Aug 26 07:48:42 <johnx> for 1.3 or 1.4L? a Fiat 500 Abarth EsseEsse might not be bad ...
Aug 26 07:48:51 <jacekowski> they can't check that here
Aug 26 07:48:55 <crashanddie> johnx: it also depends on the kind of car, not really the displacement
Aug 26 07:49:02 <johnx> bummer
Aug 26 07:49:04 <crashanddie> jacekowski: that's how gocompare does it
Aug 26 07:49:15 <crashanddie> jacekowski: and most probably confused.com as well
Aug 26 07:49:24 <johnx> you know that's one of the things that fueled the power/displacement engineering in Japan?
Aug 26 07:49:41 <johnx> It really was based on displacement (for a while at least. not sure about now)
Aug 26 07:49:41 <jacekowski> comparethemeerkat.com
Aug 26 07:49:50 <crashanddie> johnx: basically, in mainland europe, the main factor is the "fiscal power"
Aug 26 07:50:18 <crashanddie> johnx: which is an arbitrary number decided by the government, depending on size, weight, power, acceleration and safety
Aug 26 07:50:18 <jacekowski> what's funny
Aug 26 07:50:32 <kerio> your man card is automatically revoked btw
Aug 26 07:50:37 <jacekowski> is that it would cost me only £600 to insure lamborghini
Aug 26 07:50:44 <johnx> crashanddie, what's awesome here, is that the individual insurance companies just pull a # out of their butts
Aug 26 07:50:45 <jacekowski> 3rd party only
Aug 26 07:51:53 <crashanddie> johnx: yeah, it's way too regulated here... Companies interchange records, bla bla bla... But in the US, the insurrance fluctuates based the tickets you get, no?
Aug 26 07:52:08 <crashanddie> based on**
Aug 26 07:52:40 <johnx> crashanddie, ohohohoh. nonono. It's based on gender and grades, and whatever statistics they want
Aug 26 07:52:42 <jacekowski> well, points on license change costs here as well
Aug 26 07:52:59 <crashanddie> oh, maybe I'm confused with the UK then
Aug 26 07:53:21 <jacekowski> and it would even make it cheaper for me if i would be married
Aug 26 07:53:22 <crashanddie> the whole points system is ridiculous though
Aug 26 07:53:24 <jacekowski> or own a house
Aug 26 07:53:43 <johnx> no regulation means that they pull *no* punches when figuring out exactly how likely you are to make a claim
Aug 26 07:53:47 <crashanddie> jacekowski: well yeah, because statistically speaking, you're less likely to drive as an idiot when you've engaged "for life", rather than dry humping a girl in sussex
Aug 26 07:54:25 <jacekowski> why sussex?
Aug 26 07:54:39 <jacekowski> that's really interesting
Aug 26 07:55:19 <crashanddie> well, you're polish, you either live in sussex or Bromley/Lewisham
Aug 26 07:55:58 <jacekowski> you missed
Aug 26 07:57:41 <crashanddie> ouch, only 50 megs available RAM on your server?
Aug 26 07:58:01 <crashanddie> and swap maxed out aswell
Aug 26 07:58:02 <crashanddie> !
Aug 26 07:58:08 <Circassian> ?!
Aug 26 07:58:26 <jacekowski> well, take a look clouser
Aug 26 07:58:28 <jacekowski> closer*
Aug 26 07:58:33 <jacekowski> 29% used
Aug 26 07:58:38 <jacekowski> rest are buffers and caches
Aug 26 07:59:10 <crashanddie> your swap shouldn't be showing as 100% used though
Aug 26 07:59:15 <crashanddie> unless the script is misinterpreting things?
Aug 26 07:59:28 <jacekowski> it is 100%
Aug 26 07:59:38 <jacekowski> i have leaking java app runing
Aug 26 07:59:54 <jacekowski> and it's just getting swapped out
Aug 26 08:00:02 <jacekowski> Swap:         1998       1995          3
Aug 26 08:00:18 <ShadowJK> 3 megs free, that's still ok :)
Aug 26 08:00:38 <ShadowJK> it's at 0 you worry
Aug 26 08:00:42 <ShadowJK> oom is nasty
Aug 26 08:01:39 <johnx> I've had really great experiences with it :)
Aug 26 08:02:32 <akiniemi> how do you open a new window in a stack with the right orientation?
Aug 26 08:02:48 <akiniemi> I'm using Qt, and it seems windows are always forst in landscape mode...
Aug 26 08:03:01 <akiniemi> s/forst/first
Aug 26 08:05:30 <Zucca> I don't know much about apt package manager, but I'd like to know how to see a list of files a package has installed. I guess it can be done in cli?
Aug 26 08:05:44 <steinex> Zucca: dpkg -L package
Aug 26 08:06:06 <Zucca> steinex: Thanks. :)
Aug 26 08:06:29 <jacekowski> steinex: it's only swap
Aug 26 08:06:32 <jacekowski> ShadowJK: *
Aug 26 08:06:41 <jacekowski>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Aug 26 08:06:41 <jacekowski> Mem:          7988       7937         51          0         53       5515
Aug 26 08:06:42 <jacekowski> -/+ buffers/cache:       2368       5620
Aug 26 08:06:42 <jacekowski> Swap:         1998       1996          2
Aug 26 08:07:07 <jacekowski> crashanddie: i'm in colchester
Aug 26 08:08:58 <Funnyface> grrr fucking n900 froze during the night and now I've overslept
Aug 26 08:09:18 <thresh> I use excuses like that too for my boss
Aug 26 08:09:21 <nid0> i learned the hard way years ago to always use 2 alarms :)
Aug 26 08:09:23 <jacekowski> why you disabled watchdog?
Aug 26 08:10:02 <jacekowski> nid0: i use 6 alarms and it's sometimes not enough
Aug 26 08:10:21 <Funnyface> it was the alarm app itself, not the N900 actually
Aug 26 08:10:39 <Funnyface> the stop/snooze (is that what it's called in english) stuff was stuck on the screen and I had to kill it
Aug 26 08:11:39 <johnx> Funnyface, I see that sometimes too
Aug 26 08:12:08 <nid0> i sometimes have the button take 2-3 seconds to go away after stopping the alarm, but never had it freeze/fail on me
Aug 26 08:13:15 <Funnyface> the funny thing is that I have used 2 alarm clocks every day for the last 2 weeks when I had to use an alarm, but today when I only used one was the only time it didn't work
Aug 26 08:16:28 <johnx> it can tell. it knows.
Aug 26 08:16:59 <koala_man> Funnyface: miss anything important?
Aug 26 08:19:13 <yannux> I've submitted my package to extra devels repository, but I dont understand the building error. someone can help me ?
Aug 26 08:19:29 <yannux> https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/vlc-remote_0.5-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt
Aug 26 08:20:03 <X-Fade> yannux: Do you have build-depends for libqt4-dev ?
Aug 26 08:20:18 <yannux> ah shxxxttttt x) forgot it
Aug 26 08:20:26 <yannux> shame on me
Aug 26 08:25:23 <yannux> X-Fade: is there a  way to have complete it automaticly ?
Aug 26 08:25:53 <X-Fade> yannux: Complete what?
Aug 26 08:26:06 <yannux> Build-Depends:
Aug 26 08:26:35 <X-Fade> yannux: Complete -> Generate?
Aug 26 08:26:42 <yannux> yes
Aug 26 08:26:44 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: saw my post re closed blobs on community obs?
Aug 26 08:27:07 <X-Fade> yannux: dpkg-checkbuilddeps
Aug 26 08:27:25 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: No, haven't gotten to the lists yet.
Aug 26 08:27:36 <Stskeeps> k
Aug 26 08:27:42 <yannux> ok thanks X-Fade
Aug 26 08:27:58 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: wrote some technical opinion on how to deal with quim's proposal of only building for meego api (but on m5,m6)
Aug 26 08:32:28 <yannux> X-Fade:  same error :s
Aug 26 08:32:46 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: I think the problem with this is that you have to rely on Qt-mobility to provide all platform/hardware specific features.
Aug 26 08:32:59 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: :nod:
Aug 26 08:33:00 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: So only high level stuff will be available.
Aug 26 08:33:28 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: otoh qt mobility is getting developed for m5
Aug 26 08:33:55 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Sure, but if you want to use the light sensor for example, you are out of luck.
Aug 26 08:33:58 <Funnyface> koala_man: yes I did
Aug 26 08:34:33 <Funnyface> my visit to the doctor + 4-5 classes worth of school
Aug 26 08:34:33 <X-Fade> Well, pure kernel things can be allowed too.
Aug 26 08:37:13 <yannux> X-Fade: I've replace debian/rules by those here : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39962   and now it's compiling on my scratchbox armel target , before  he wasn't
Aug 26 08:37:55 <yannux> X-Fade: files uploaded to extra devels, must be build from armel or x86 target on the scratchbox ?
Aug 26 08:43:29 <X-Fade> yannux: Doesn't matter as you build a souce package.
Aug 26 08:43:45 <yannux> ok
Aug 26 08:52:05 <yannux> X-Fade:  thanks, build is OK now :D
Aug 26 08:53:47 <X-Fade> yannux: Good ;)
Aug 26 08:54:16 <yannux> X-Fade:  once it's build, it's available on the n900 application manager, (with extra-devels of course)
Aug 26 08:54:18 <yannux> ?*
Aug 26 08:54:47 <X-Fade> yannux: Takes a while for it to be imported/mirrored.
Aug 26 08:55:17 <yannux> some hours ? days?
Aug 26 08:55:48 <Khertan_> Morning everyone !
Aug 26 08:55:49 <X-Fade> yannux: up to an hour, most of the time less than 30 minutes.
Aug 26 08:55:55 <Khertan_> ~seen achipa
Aug 26 08:57:04 <infobot> achipa <~bear@Maemo/community/council/achipa> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6d 17h 23m 10s ago, saying: 'Jaffa: hm, right, though if you go that route you can say it's already that way - I don't think there are other clients leaving python urllib agent strings :)'.
Aug 26 09:04:07 <Khertan_> X-Fade: hi
Aug 26 09:04:27 <Khertan_> X-Fade: someone say me ... ask to X-Fade ... this is guy ...
Aug 26 09:04:27 <Stskeeps> Khertan_: out of curiousity, did you switch to qt yet?
Aug 26 09:04:52 <Khertan_> X-Fade: got a question about maemo news ... the content of the news didn't appear in the planet : http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:a5799af9ac17abc99d28d8047c32e427/
Aug 26 09:05:07 <Khertan_> X-Fade: does there is a reason ? (i use the wrong format for example)
Aug 26 09:05:12 <Khertan_> Stskeeps: yep :)
Aug 26 09:05:21 <Khertan_> Stskeeps: khteditor and khweeteur are in pyqt
Aug 26 09:05:24 <Stskeeps> cool
Aug 26 09:05:47 <bilboed-pi> moin all. Anybody knows if there are lensfun/ufraw lens profiles for FCamera/n900 ?
Aug 26 09:05:49 <Khertan_> and khteditor is far away faster than pygtkeditor to highlight python code
Aug 26 09:05:59 <X-Fade> Khertan_: That is just because it is more than 1000 words.
Aug 26 09:06:27 <Khertan_> X-Fade: ah ... ok :) thx ... i ll try to do shorter next time ... as i didn't like when we just see the link in the planet :)
Aug 26 09:07:01 <X-Fade> Khertan_: Yeah, the article shortening algo can be smarter. Patches welcome ;)
Aug 26 09:08:19 <Khertan_> X-Fade: is it python code ?
Aug 26 09:08:26 <X-Fade> Khertan_: no, php
Aug 26 09:08:44 <Khertan_> hum ... i'm not a specialist :)
Aug 26 09:08:52 <Khertan_> anyway where is source ... i could try :)
Aug 26 09:09:13 <lma> X-Fade: Hi, I'm available for testing for the next hour or so if you need me
Aug 26 09:09:35 <X-Fade> lma: Did you upload the final part?
Aug 26 09:10:00 <lma> Yup, but there's something wrong with the PGP signature, I just emailed you as well
Aug 26 09:11:48 <Stskeeps> when was it approximately, time wise, that quim announced no more gtk?
Aug 26 09:12:03 <Stskeeps> ah, over a year ago
Aug 26 09:13:08 <X-Fade> lma: Ok, it didn't sign it automatically.
Aug 26 09:13:11 <Khertan_> Stskeeps: at least ... qt is really useable since a few time (pr1.2)
Aug 26 09:13:15 <X-Fade> lma: Let me check why.
Aug 26 09:13:33 <lma> X-Fade: ah, true, I just noticed that Release.gpg is a couple of days old
Aug 26 09:13:42 <Stskeeps> Khertan_: did you have any luck with pyside/pyqt on meego yet?
Aug 26 09:14:00 <mece_> heh. What douchebaggery is this? http://i.imgur.com/opkj8.jpg
Aug 26 09:14:27 <Khertan_> Stskeeps: nope :) it s not available yet ... and wasn't able to build it ...
Aug 26 09:14:31 <Stskeeps> Khertan_: ok
Aug 26 09:14:53 <Khertan_> but once it s available i ll try it ...
Aug 26 09:14:53 <Khertan_> :)
Aug 26 09:15:07 <Khertan_> my sd card is ready with meego on it :)
Aug 26 09:15:54 <Khertan_> but i khteditor and khweeteur will need some modification to work with pyside ... as it s not really api compatible with pyqt :)
Aug 26 09:16:13 <X-Fade> lma: Ok, found the issue.
Aug 26 09:16:15 <Khertan_> as pyside isn't ready ... there is still some strange behavior
Aug 26 09:16:33 <X-Fade> lma: Do you have another package you can upload by chance?
Aug 26 09:16:46 <lma> No, that's it for now
Aug 26 09:17:03 <lma> Would re-uploading an existing one work?
Aug 26 09:18:19 <X-Fade> lma: Nah, I'll just run the sign part myself for now. Should be ok for the next run.
Aug 26 09:23:06 <Khertan_> re
Aug 26 09:23:49 <X-Fade> lma: Update shows up for me now.
Aug 26 09:24:17 <Stskeeps> Khertan_: did you ask the old pymaemo people if they're doing anything for meego?
Aug 26 09:24:37 <Stskeeps> like, for pyqt/pyside
Aug 26 09:25:30 <Khertan_> nope i didn't ask ... but i think the work is in progress
Aug 26 09:25:33 <Stskeeps> k
Aug 26 09:25:46 <lma> X-Fade: same here, thanks!
Aug 26 09:26:04 <Khertan_> i think i ll try this new QtMobility in khweeteur instead of playing with dbus :)
Aug 26 09:27:01 <Khertan_> QNETWORKSESSION seeems a really good idea ... simplify a lot many things !
Aug 26 09:27:30 <Khertan_> but binding is for pyside and not pyqt :(
Aug 26 09:27:40 <Khertan_> so this meens a switch to pyside
Aug 26 09:29:43 <mece_> well, at least pyside is getting some attention..
Aug 26 09:29:47 <X-Fade> lma: SSU completed fine on my device.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 26 09:33:24 2010
Aug 26 09:35:07 <mece_> Khertan_, khteditor is awesome!
Aug 26 09:36:27 <Jaffa> dneary: ping
Aug 26 09:36:38 <dneary> Jaffa, Pung
Aug 26 09:37:11 <Jaffa> dneary: Nominations should be open now, have you got the list of eligible candidates and an announcement to publish?
Aug 26 09:37:34 <dneary> Jaffa, Will do it ASAP.
Aug 26 09:37:38 <Jaffa> dneary: Thanks
Aug 26 09:37:44 <dneary> Assuming that karma counts are up to date...
Aug 26 09:40:06 <Jaffa> A question for bergie and/or X-Fade, I guess
Aug 26 09:49:09 <X-Fade> lcuk: ping?
Aug 26 09:52:46 <Khertan_> mece_: thks !!!
Aug 26 09:53:53 <Khertan_> mece_: the pylint plugin need fix :)
Aug 26 09:54:04 <Khertan_> mece_: but it s in progress
Aug 26 09:54:37 <Khertan_> mece_: and i need some help to implement more native hilighter for other language
Aug 26 09:54:45 <Khertan_> as the python one is native
Aug 26 09:54:52 <Khertan_> but the other use pygment
Aug 26 09:54:56 <Khertan_> so other can be slow :)
Aug 26 09:56:26 <Khertan_> mece_: and i need to add some preferences for tabulation too and a comment/uncomment support for other language
Aug 26 09:56:34 <Khertan_> autoindent plugin is for python only
Aug 26 09:56:46 <Khertan_> there is many things to do :)
Aug 26 10:06:16 <crashanddie> there are
Aug 26 10:06:22 * crashanddie waves at Khertan_ 
Aug 26 10:06:26 <crashanddie> como vach?
Aug 26 10:07:40 <Jaffa> Oh, that's classy. Just got an email asking if I'd like to interviewed for Sky Radio's series "The Innovators" because of my work with Maemo. It's a great way to promote my business, apparently, so it'll only cost me $3,995 to be interviewed!
Aug 26 10:07:54 <crashanddie> lmao
Aug 26 10:07:55 <jaska> :D
Aug 26 10:08:06 <crashanddie> "your business"
Aug 26 10:08:16 <crashanddie> Well, for reporters, they're sure doing a bad job
Aug 26 10:08:18 <jaska> their business
Aug 26 10:08:49 <crashanddie> Jaffa: I'd forgotten that you own maemo.com and are seriously considering conquering the UK market
Aug 26 10:09:26 <timeless> ooh, you own maemo.com?
Aug 26 10:10:09 <X-Fade> Nah, that is Nokia itself too.
Aug 26 10:10:14 <crashanddie> timeless: sorry, I forget </sarcasm?
Aug 26 10:10:35 <crashanddie> X-Fade: yeah, btw the DNS should point to something a bit more interesting that "NORECORDS"
Aug 26 10:10:50 <timeless> some tags aren't optional ;-)
Aug 26 10:11:00 <ieatlint> the word "conquer" doesn't really belong anywhere near the word maemo
Aug 26 10:11:23 <crashanddie> it does if you're trying to place a phone call
Aug 26 10:11:36 <ieatlint> lol
Aug 26 10:11:43 <jaska> emphasis on trying?:)
Aug 26 10:12:04 <ieatlint> maemo should just be subtitled "good intentions"
Aug 26 10:12:13 <crashanddie> haha, excellent
Aug 26 10:12:45 <crashanddie> "Good intentions does not a successfull OS make"?
Aug 26 10:13:03 <timeless> -l
Aug 26 10:14:09 <Khertan_> crashanddie: there are ... yep :)
Aug 26 10:14:17 <ieatlint> how about just "better than wimo, at least"
Aug 26 10:16:32 <crashanddie> ieatlint: well, not really
Aug 26 10:17:00 <ieatlint> hrm, how about "Sold more than the Microsoft Kin phone"
Aug 26 10:17:23 <crashanddie> I mean, if you look at it, ieatlint, there is one more thing we need to consider when judging Maemo as a whole. Y'all remember Chewbacca? Chewbacca is a Wookie from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
Aug 26 10:17:46 <X-Fade> crashanddie: Just Nokia domain squatting ;)
Aug 26 10:18:08 <ieatlint> i vaguely recall chewbacca, yes
Aug 26 10:19:25 <ShadowJK> he was the one who hadn't shaved that morning
Aug 26 10:19:55 <crashanddie> Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with Maemo? Nothing. It has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I am an IRC troll idling in #maemo, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? I am not making any sense! None of this
Aug 26 10:20:33 <ShadowJK> and you're using an irc client unaware of 512 byte limit
Aug 26 10:20:45 <crashanddie> just irssi :)
Aug 26 10:20:45 <ieatlint> crashanddie, i'd guess he was compensating for something
Aug 26 10:21:01 <ieatlint> you know, like how to a midget you seem really big
Aug 26 10:21:15 <crashanddie> ieatlint: maybe I'm a person of low height?
Aug 26 10:21:24 <crashanddie> ieatlint: midget is a very insulting word, you know.
Aug 26 10:21:36 <crashanddie> maybe you'll use gnome or monkey next?
Aug 26 10:21:37 <ieatlint> i wouldn't have used it otherwise
Aug 26 10:21:47 <ieatlint> "vertically challenged"
Aug 26 10:21:48 <Duckboot> I'm an oversized gnome
Aug 26 10:21:58 <crashanddie> Duckboot: those are called trolls :D
Aug 26 10:22:04 <Duckboot> crashanddie: Haha
Aug 26 10:22:38 <Duckboot> crashanddie: Perhaps monkey is a more suiting word for me....
Aug 26 10:22:53 * timeless arrives @HEL
Aug 26 10:22:57 <Khertan_> hum ... there is many small differences between pyside and pyqt4
Aug 26 10:23:29 <ieatlint> i was once tempted to write a utility called midget that would get things midway through a file
Aug 26 10:23:59 <Khertan_> and i like their doc : http://www.pyside.org/docs/pyside-dev/PySide/QtCore/Qt.html
Aug 26 10:24:41 <DocScrutinizer> dman, it's THURSDAY, not friday :-P
Aug 26 10:24:48 <Duckboot> DocScrutinizer: NSS
Aug 26 10:25:39 <DocScrutinizer> New zSealand Zsouth?
Aug 26 10:26:07 <DocScrutinizer> ~wtf nss
Aug 26 10:26:09 <infobot> Gee...  I don't know what nss means...
Aug 26 10:26:20 <DocScrutinizer> look, not even ibot knows
Aug 26 10:26:44 <Duckboot> My son had a suggestion to a perfect week: saturday, sunday, friday, saturday, friday, saturday, friday
Aug 26 10:27:04 <Scelt> no fridays, you gotta work those days
Aug 26 10:27:08 <DocScrutinizer> I'd miss one sunday
Aug 26 10:27:16 <ShadowJK> as long as there are no mondays
Aug 26 10:28:22 <DocScrutinizer> ... and I'd need to dl Dr.House from the internets, due to missing tuesday
Aug 26 10:28:24 <Duckboot> Scelt: Fridays are always nice
Aug 26 10:28:45 <Duckboot> DocScrutinizer: NSS = No Shit Sherlock
Aug 26 10:28:47 <DocScrutinizer> OMFG the TV program :-/
Aug 26 10:29:23 <DocScrutinizer> seems like they change saturday program every 6 months or so
Aug 26 10:29:41 * Duckboot does not watch TV.
Aug 26 10:30:10 <DocScrutinizer> I need to, not to forget what spoken German sounds like
Aug 26 10:30:37 <Duckboot> DocScrutinizer: I have a german sister-in-law, so I'm covered.
Aug 26 10:31:55 <DocScrutinizer> well, I have the lady at the supermarket cashier, a "hello!.... Nice evening" every 4 days should suffice
Aug 26 10:32:29 <Duckboot> ;-P
Aug 26 10:33:38 <DocScrutinizer> that's about as much as I speak, or hear of directly spoken words. ~0.5 words / day
Aug 26 10:34:14 <ShadowJK> You could start pretending you're deaf mute
Aug 26 10:34:29 <ShadowJK> and write hallo in Sketch on n900
Aug 26 10:35:47 <DocScrutinizer> I adopted the habit of occasionally mumbling the English I type in here :-D
Aug 26 10:36:18 <Duckboot> DocScrutinizer: I have 3 kids - Believe me - I would prefer silence.
Aug 26 10:36:37 * DocScrutinizer does
Aug 26 10:37:46 <DocScrutinizer> just noticed a double click on BT headset hold button will repeat last outbound call. Anybody knew about that, and if yes then where from?
Aug 26 10:38:59 <DocScrutinizer> s/peat/dial/
Aug 26 10:38:59 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: just noticed a double click on BT headset hold button will redial last outbound call. Anybody knew about that, and if yes then where from?
Aug 26 10:42:10 <DocScrutinizer> meh, on wired headset it doesn't work
Aug 26 10:42:15 <Surfa> it should have been from the beginning
Aug 26 10:42:28 <Surfa> it's bt feature if I recall correctly
Aug 26 10:42:56 <Surfa> all nokia devices should behave the same way for the bt headset button clicks
Aug 26 10:43:23 <DocScrutinizer> bt for sure has absolutely no idea about redialing
Aug 26 10:43:52 <DocScrutinizer> at least for SCP or whatever profile is used for phone headset
Aug 26 10:44:34 <Surfa> yes, but nokia bt sw does some logic for the buttons
Aug 26 10:44:53 <DocScrutinizer> Surfa: I'm quite sure they don't, as some offer voice dialing on pressing button when no call established
Aug 26 10:45:21 <Surfa> if you feel so :)
Aug 26 10:45:24 <DocScrutinizer> there is no Nokia bt sw afaik
Aug 26 10:45:44 <Surfa> i don't remember details and don't really feel like looking for them right now
Aug 26 10:45:44 <DocScrutinizer> it's all plain bluez
Aug 26 10:47:29 <Surfa> to some point yes, but bluez must forward some information to phone components too?
Aug 26 10:48:00 <timeless> nokia wired has a special proprietary protocol
Aug 26 10:48:06 <DocScrutinizer> I think it creates input events
Aug 26 10:48:10 <timeless> which the n900 doesn't support
Aug 26 10:48:25 <timeless> so for wired you get a fairly minimal set
Aug 26 10:48:36 <DocScrutinizer> timeless: I'm talking bout the plain simple headset button
Aug 26 10:48:40 <timeless> bt is more standardized w/ better magic
Aug 26 10:48:48 <timeless> heh
Aug 26 10:48:57 <timeless> capt jere nokia welcomes me aboad
Aug 26 10:49:09 * timeless is flying HEL to OSL to LHR
Aug 26 10:49:16 <DocScrutinizer> timeless: I know about the protocol, or to be exact I do *not* know despite I tried to find out
Aug 26 10:49:20 <timeless> so i can wave to the trolls for a minute
Aug 26 10:49:32 <timeless> anyway, we're off
Aug 26 10:49:48 <timeless> i'll see people some time next week. have a good weekend
Aug 26 10:54:05 <DocScrutinizer> Surfa:
Aug 26 10:54:08 <DocScrutinizer> [127233.459381] hci_h4p hci_h4p: firmware: requesting bcmfw.bin
Aug 26 10:54:09 <DocScrutinizer> [127244.121490] input: 00:1C:A4:30:7A:A8 as /class/input/input4
Aug 26 10:54:23 <DocScrutinizer> [129020.923797] headphone (GPIO 177) is now connected
Aug 26 10:54:24 <DocScrutinizer> [129022.041503] input: headset button as /class/input/input5
Aug 26 10:57:55 <DocScrutinizer> if anybody has *any* pointer to / or generic info about the Nokia wired headset multimedia control protocol... Really appreciated! :-)
Aug 26 10:58:28 <Duckboot> DocScrutinizer: There is a package somewhere which enables the volume-buttons on the headset.
Aug 26 10:58:35 <DocScrutinizer> or maybe schematics of any such headset, or schematics of a Nokia phone compatible to such multibutton wired headset
Aug 26 10:58:38 <Duckboot> extras-dev og -test
Aug 26 10:58:41 <X-Fade> MohammadAG51: ping?
Aug 26 10:59:10 <DocScrutinizer> Duckboot: duh?! volume buttons of wired headset?
Aug 26 10:59:27 <Duckboot> DocScrutinizer: Jepp
Aug 26 10:59:33 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Aug 26 11:00:05 <Duckboot> DocScrutinizer: headset-control
Aug 26 11:00:19 <Duckboot> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=21182
Aug 26 11:09:45 <DocScrutinizer> Duckboot: I can't find any mentioning of volume control via multibutton headset in that thread
Aug 26 11:10:04 <dotblank34> Anyone noticed they added voip calling from gmail?
Aug 26 11:10:20 <dotblank34> perhaps its implemented with google talk and maybe you can use xmpp to make land line calls
Aug 26 11:10:20 <DocScrutinizer> from???
Aug 26 11:10:45 <dotblank34> http://www.google.com/chat/voice/
Aug 26 11:11:04 <DocScrutinizer> dotblank34: We had that topic some hours ago. AIUI google voice is SIP
Aug 26 11:11:27 <PerfDave> Google uses an XMPP extension to do SIP initiation over Jabber, yes.
Aug 26 11:11:35 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Aug 26 11:11:40 <dotblank34> anyone to connect with the n900 sip client?
Aug 26 11:11:57 <DocScrutinizer> fsck google
Aug 26 11:11:58 <dotblank34> anywhere*
Aug 26 11:12:00 <PerfDave> DocScrutinizer: AFAIK it's an open standard, and implemented by other clients.
Aug 26 11:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> open: maybe. Stnadard: dooooubts
Aug 26 11:12:38 <dotblank34> PerfDave: if thats the case then its entirely possible to program your own client
Aug 26 11:12:59 <dotblank34> to sue gmails xmpp google voice dialer extension
Aug 26 11:13:02 <dotblank34> use*
Aug 26 11:13:57 <DocScrutinizer> well, I read some page months ago, about google inherited gizmo5, and gizmo is plain SIP afaik
Aug 26 11:14:11 <DocScrutinizer> so google should offer that interface as well
Aug 26 11:14:19 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: yes but this seems to be implemented over xmpp now
Aug 26 11:14:51 <DocScrutinizer> then none of the gizmo users could continue to use his plain simple SIP
Aug 26 11:15:07 <DocScrutinizer> and there was some advice how they could do that
Aug 26 11:15:10 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
Aug 26 11:15:23 <dotblank34> when I get it to work with my gmail account im going to test it with wireshark and see what its really doing
Aug 26 11:15:49 <DocScrutinizer> dotblank34: that's irrelevant
Aug 26 11:16:04 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: How so?
Aug 26 11:16:21 <DocScrutinizer> as elaborated above this will be SIP over XMPP
Aug 26 11:16:23 <dotblank34> if I see the traffic is running over xmpp/jingle
Aug 26 11:16:33 <dotblank34> ok so it is over xmpp then
Aug 26 11:16:55 * DocScrutinizer shakes head and wants to shout "READ!"
Aug 26 11:18:09 <DocScrutinizer> <DocScrutinizer> well, I read some page months ago, about google inherited gizmo5, and gizmo is plain SIP afaik  [2010-08-26 13:12:30] <DocScrutinizer> so google should offer that interface as well  [2010-08-26 13:13:10] <DocScrutinizer> then none of the gizmo users could continue to use his plain simple SIP
Aug 26 11:19:49 <DocScrutinizer> it's possible the plain SIP interface is restricted to gizmo users
Aug 26 11:20:07 <DocScrutinizer> though I'd not exactly see why they would want to do this
Aug 26 11:22:12 <DocScrutinizer> meh, nuke google with all its BS
Aug 26 11:22:13 <dotblank34> The question is how does the gmail client interfaces with with google voice
Aug 26 11:22:46 <dotblank34> can you even tunnel SIP through xmpp?
Aug 26 11:23:14 <PerfDave> It doesn't tunnel SIP through XMPP, as I understand it. It just uses XMPP to do the handshaking.
Aug 26 11:23:15 <DocScrutinizer> please stop spreading nonsense. a mail client can not connect to a voice service
Aug 26 11:23:32 <crashanddie> PerfDave: eh?
Aug 26 11:23:38 <crashanddie> PerfDave: SIP is the handshaking protocol
Aug 26 11:23:42 <crashanddie> that's what SIP is all about
Aug 26 11:23:52 <zash> jingle is also a handshaking protocol
Aug 26 11:23:53 <dotblank34> ok right... but the voice and video addon for gmail wich as I understand it contains a xmpp client
Aug 26 11:24:01 <dotblank34> so we are talking about that
Aug 26 11:24:05 <zash> google talk is xmpp
Aug 26 11:24:14 <dotblank34> So is it now also a sip client too?
Aug 26 11:24:44 <crashanddie> not necessarily
Aug 26 11:24:52 <crashanddie> they could still be using the xmpp frontend
Aug 26 11:25:02 <crashanddie> connect to a google server, which then does the SIP networking
Aug 26 11:25:35 <DocScrutinizer> B2B UA
Aug 26 11:26:14 <dotblank34> I think the only way to really find out is use wireshark
Aug 26 11:26:28 <DocScrutinizer> find out about what?
Aug 26 11:26:30 <crashanddie> you most probably won't see a lot
Aug 26 11:26:35 <crashanddie> everything is https with gmail
Aug 26 11:26:41 <DocScrutinizer> how to emulate shit we don't really want to use?
Aug 26 11:28:04 <crashanddie> dotblank34: for the record, SIP uses RTP and RTCP to transfer the voice component. Basically SIP just says "Hey, I've got someone who wants to call you, send your voice data on this address at this port, I can use these codecs, but would prefer this one"
Aug 26 11:28:44 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/voice/thread?tid=16817c950860c1fb&hl=en
Aug 26 11:28:45 <crashanddie> then the other party replies "OK, you can send your voice data on this address at this port, and I'd like to use this codec, I'll let you know when my guy answered the phone"
Aug 26 11:28:47 <PerfDave> crashanddie: Have they fixed that then? They used to do https for most things, but some http which allowed cookie-stealing. It was talked about on the Tor mailing list a lot.
Aug 26 11:29:06 <crashanddie> gmail never allowed the https attack
Aug 26 11:29:14 <dotblank34> Does the addon for google talk int he web browser use https?
Aug 26 11:29:17 <crashanddie> well, it did, like any other service, but then they moved on to always-on https
Aug 26 11:29:40 <dotblank34> cause thats a seperate addon
Aug 26 11:29:48 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: nope, SIP *usually* uses RTP, but basically SIP is agnostic about the transport protocol
Aug 26 11:30:13 <crashanddie> yeah, I just wanted to explain that SIP itself doesn't do voice or video or anything transfer
Aug 26 11:30:30 <DocScrutinizer> correct
Aug 26 11:30:37 <dotblank34> crashanddie: right
Aug 26 11:31:07 <crashanddie> I also wanted to point out that it's going to be a real pain to implement properly, honestly
Aug 26 11:31:16 <dotblank34> What if google implemented a xmpp to sip gateway that you could make calls with jingle?
Aug 26 11:31:16 <PerfDave> Fair enough, I just see "SIP client" when I look at VOIP software.
Aug 26 11:31:53 <dotblank34> wouldn't that make more sense?
Aug 26 11:32:09 <dotblank34> then having the gmail voice client use sip
Aug 26 11:33:19 <dotblank34> google would then have to implement a dialing extension to xmpp and thats it really
Aug 26 11:33:25 <dotblank34> maybe it doesn't perform well
Aug 26 11:33:58 <crashanddie> sip -> jingle -> xmpp -> sip?
Aug 26 11:34:35 <dotblank34> jingle is an extension of xmpp
Aug 26 11:34:48 <crashanddie> link?
Aug 26 11:34:58 <dotblank34> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle_(protocol)
Aug 26 11:35:05 <crashanddie> ta
Aug 26 11:35:11 <zash> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0166.html
Aug 26 11:35:52 <dotblank34> it would basically be a sip to jingle/xmpp bridge
Aug 26 11:36:12 <dotblank34> in fact asterisk boxes can already do that
Aug 26 11:36:59 <mece_> Stskeeps, are there changelogs for the meego releases somewhere?
Aug 26 11:37:20 * mece_ is talking about the n900 weeky releases
Aug 26 11:37:38 <crashanddie> erhm
Aug 26 11:37:47 <crashanddie> dotblank34: I don't see the point, really
Aug 26 11:37:52 <Stskeeps> mece_: yes, they come out with the normal release announcements on meego-dev
Aug 26 11:38:02 <crashanddie> dotblank34: you're talking about a p2p session control protocol
Aug 26 11:38:16 <crashanddie> dotblank34: for phone calls to server entities?
Aug 26 11:38:36 <DocScrutinizer> FSCK google voice :-/
Aug 26 11:38:41 <dotblank34> crashanddie: yes
Aug 26 11:38:41 <domrep666> hi
Aug 26 11:38:46 <crashanddie> dotblank34: why?
Aug 26 11:38:53 <domrep666> Hallo mein Schatz.Ich bin soo schlecht im bett, kannst du mir nachhilfe geben ?:) C2C, T6, Realtreff, 3 D Livecams 5 Minuten Gratis Testen.  www.hottangacam.com
Aug 26 11:39:07 <MohammadAG51> too late
Aug 26 11:39:08 <crashanddie> damn
Aug 26 11:39:15 <dotblank34> crashanddie: its not perfect but it means it would work with existing xmpp/jingle clients
Aug 26 11:39:18 <dotblank34> liek the n900 :)
Aug 26 11:39:19 <MohammadAG51> muhahaha
Aug 26 11:39:58 <DocScrutinizer> there's a zillion nice SIP providers offering great service for free, now google jumps in and cooks it in sulfuric acid and offers it as the invention of sliced bread, and all the ***** are jumping on the train
Aug 26 11:40:23 <dotblank34> well us calling is free
Aug 26 11:40:25 <dotblank34> thats why
Aug 26 11:40:33 <DocScrutinizer> domrep - web interface?
Aug 26 11:40:33 <crashanddie> dotblank34: I'm calling the whole world for free
Aug 26 11:40:41 <dotblank34> crashanddie: with?
Aug 26 11:40:42 * PerfDave stills wants nice free cross-platform voice+video
Aug 26 11:40:46 <crashanddie> dotblank34: free.fr
Aug 26 11:41:55 <dotblank34> but you had to buy the box right? I can't read the website so I can't really tell the details
Aug 26 11:42:32 <dotblank34> seems like its 15/month or 20/month
Aug 26 11:43:22 <crashanddie> dotblank34: 30euros a month, 100mbit down, 50mbit up, unlimited data (no fair use), unlimited phone calls to 3/4 of the world, 300 hd tv channels through TV over IP, etc, etc
Aug 26 11:43:57 <crashanddie> sip service, unlimited web space, unlimited ftp space, etc
Aug 26 11:44:18 <dotblank34> Im guessing its not available in america
Aug 26 11:44:23 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: now that's the way to think about it :-) fsck google 'free calls'
Aug 26 11:44:25 <dotblank34> :(
Aug 26 11:44:26 <crashanddie> nope, only France, and selected countries
Aug 26 11:44:39 <crashanddie> err
Aug 26 11:44:44 <crashanddie> selected cities, rather
Aug 26 11:44:48 <dotblank34> Im stuck with vertizon
Aug 26 11:44:53 <dotblank34> verizon*
Aug 26 11:45:22 <crashanddie> I'm laughing my ass off when I see bloggers wondering how long Google will be able to keep up with the free calls to the US
Aug 26 11:45:23 <dotblank34> I pay about 500$ a month for cellular, tv and internet
Aug 26 11:45:33 <crashanddie> the US has some of the lowest termination fees in the bloody world
Aug 26 11:45:37 <dotblank34> its insaine
Aug 26 11:45:57 <DocScrutinizer> crashanddie: that's why they can offer outbound for free
Aug 26 11:46:00 <crashanddie> heck, your mobile termination fees is the same as your landline, that is *unheard of* in other countries
Aug 26 11:46:33 <crashanddie> US/Canada is the only place I can call mobiles at the same rate as landline (free)
Aug 26 11:46:41 <DocScrutinizer> and then your mobile carrier charges you for inbound minutes? LOL
Aug 26 11:46:49 <dotblank34> crashanddie: um im not too sure what you mean.. termination fees in the US on 2 year contracts are about $170 + cost of phone
Aug 26 11:46:55 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: yeah well, their problem, not ours :P
Aug 26 11:47:03 <DocScrutinizer> yep X-P
Aug 26 11:47:04 <crashanddie> dotblank34: call termation fee, not contract.
Aug 26 11:47:18 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: you can call the us for free with skype as well
Aug 26 11:47:23 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer: well, some numbers
Aug 26 11:47:44 <crashanddie> though, Skype deliberately deteriorates the quality of calls to free numbers
Aug 26 11:47:53 <DocScrutinizer> FWD is offering free US calls?
Aug 26 11:48:09 <crashanddie> front wheel drive?
Aug 26 11:48:20 <DocScrutinizer> free world dialup
Aug 26 11:48:22 <dotblank34> crashanddie: my god that ticks me off so much.. it is nearly unbearable and I bought my own number+subscription
Aug 26 11:49:35 <DocScrutinizer> well USA==third_world_of_telecommunication
Aug 26 11:49:41 <dotblank34> Voice and telephones makes me want to rage
Aug 26 11:49:57 <dotblank34> and internet in the US
Aug 26 11:50:26 <MohammadAG51> EU ftw
Aug 26 11:50:33 <DocScrutinizer> only in USA you can buy 512 cheap mobile phones, mount them into a rack, with a server connected to all of them via data cables, and open your own carrier service
Aug 26 11:50:36 <dotblank34> I get 30/5 for about $100 a month
Aug 26 11:53:35 <DocScrutinizer> honestly, harald welte told me he seen such gateways between GSM carriers. "forward to AT+T? sorry all our 512 AT+T cellphones are currently occupied. please call again later, or tell you friend to use our service instead of AT+T"
Aug 26 11:54:25 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: wait what?
Aug 26 11:55:09 <DocScrutinizer> carrier A using cellphones reistered to carrier B's network to forward your call originated in A to destination in B
Aug 26 11:55:25 <dotblank34> um can't you just use something like flowroute
Aug 26 11:55:27 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: that's illegal here :|
Aug 26 11:56:42 <ieatlint> google just bought two phone services to get this, they don't have a stack of gsm phones on a rack somewhere for it :P
Aug 26 11:56:48 <kerio> and yeah, i still don't get how they can get away with charging you for the SMSes you receive
Aug 26 11:57:00 <ieatlint> those lucky enough to have gizmo accounts have sip for this, etc
Aug 26 11:57:30 <dotblank34> you can sms bomb people
Aug 26 11:57:33 <dotblank34> wich is insaine
Aug 26 11:57:58 <ieatlint> i can sms bomb people on maemo using a bash script
Aug 26 11:58:02 <ieatlint> meh
Aug 26 11:58:10 <dotblank34> lol
Aug 26 11:58:27 <lcuk> dont you get the dialog saying how much credit is left?
Aug 26 11:58:33 <dotblank34> most people I know have unlimted text so... doesn't really matter
Aug 26 11:58:55 <lcuk> after every message sent
Aug 26 11:58:56 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: on reception of inbound SMS? :-P
Aug 26 11:59:04 <ieatlint> nah, it matters... it may not cost them anything to get the sms, but if you really hammer their phone, they can't do anything with a new sms notification every 2 seconds
Aug 26 11:59:07 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, I meant on outbound
Aug 26 11:59:19 <ieatlint> or, they can't do as much at least.. :P
Aug 26 11:59:31 <dotblank34> I don't think it would hammer then900 as much
Aug 26 11:59:37 <lcuk> i remember pr1.0 I could send sms messages one word at a time, using [ENTER] as punctuation
Aug 26 11:59:40 <lcuk> drove luke batty
Aug 26 11:59:45 <frals> lcuk: :D
Aug 26 11:59:54 <lcuk> but that fun ended :)
Aug 26 11:59:55 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: LOOOL rotfl
Aug 26 12:00:02 <frals> lcuk: and then theres congestion and they end up in the wrong order on her phone
Aug 26 12:00:03 <frals> :D
Aug 26 12:00:04 <lcuk> and now theres a dialog that pops up after each message is sent
Aug 26 12:00:35 <frals> dialog? O_o
Aug 26 12:00:37 <DocScrutinizer> ?? not here
Aug 26 12:00:39 <frals> teh wat
Aug 26 12:00:49 * frals thinks lcuk has done something to his phone
Aug 26 12:01:03 <lcuk> if user=='lcuk' stop_him_from_sending_sms();
Aug 26 12:01:05 <lcuk> ??
Aug 26 12:01:16 * DocScrutinizer thinks lcuk has configured reception notification for his SMS
Aug 26 12:01:43 <frals> grep -iR "workaround to stop lcuk spamming" *.. yepp, seems about right lcuk
Aug 26 12:01:44 <lcuk> it tells me my balance after sending
Aug 26 12:01:52 <frals> lcuk: dont have that here
Aug 26 12:01:54 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Aug 26 12:02:03 <frals> lcuk: how did you get that? :D
Aug 26 12:02:04 <DocScrutinizer> that's a feature of your carrier
Aug 26 12:02:35 <DocScrutinizer> N900 has no notion of your balance neither a way to query it
Aug 26 12:02:38 <lcuk> prolly more related to PAYG
Aug 26 12:03:36 <DocScrutinizer> carrier is sending a SMS type "notification" to you, on every sent SMS
Aug 26 12:03:53 * lcuk gotten used to it
Aug 26 12:04:26 <ieatlint> i seem to recall that being an optional feature that you can turn on/off
Aug 26 12:04:27 <DocScrutinizer> there's a friggin lot of different SMS types: config SMS, plain SMS, UTF SMS, invisiible SMS, blinking SMS
Aug 26 12:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> ...
Aug 26 12:04:56 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: reception notification is
Aug 26 12:05:05 <dotblank34> can't you send an sms to change the settings of the phone?
Aug 26 12:05:09 <DocScrutinizer> "SMS delivered to destination"
Aug 26 12:05:10 <ieatlint> there's also a maemo widget for doing ussd queries that may be used to tell you any balance and such
Aug 26 12:05:27 <dotblank34> ussd works on my phone now
Aug 26 12:05:31 <DocScrutinizer> dotblank34: ... config SMS,...
Aug 26 12:05:44 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: so thats what its called!
Aug 26 12:05:52 <crashanddie> yeah, nothing like having a command prompt through SMS
Aug 26 12:05:52 <MohammadAG51> who's on EU firmware?
Aug 26 12:05:55 <ieatlint> yeah, but i mean instead of manually typing it, it does the query and formats the data it receives as you specify
Aug 26 12:05:59 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: can yous end your own config sms to other phoens?
Aug 26 12:06:06 <crashanddie> sudo gainroot; rm -rf /*
Aug 26 12:06:12 <MohammadAG51> xD
Aug 26 12:06:19 <DocScrutinizer> dotblank34: If you know how, then yes
Aug 26 12:06:35 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: lol really.. that really really insecure
Aug 26 12:07:00 <DocScrutinizer> well, you usually can't fake the sender info
Aug 26 12:07:25 <RST38h> moo all
Aug 26 12:07:27 <DocScrutinizer> and config SMS are madatory to ask user for OK
Aug 26 12:07:29 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: usually?
Aug 26 12:07:30 <MohammadAG51> moo RST38h
Aug 26 12:07:52 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: well im sure 90% of the people I know would say ok
Aug 26 12:07:57 <DocScrutinizer> dotblank34: if you got no special 'wire' to the network exchange
Aug 26 12:08:35 <dotblank34> DocScrutinizer: sounds illegal
Aug 26 12:08:35 <carp3> Hi, is it possible to install Symbian on N900 ?
Aug 26 12:08:50 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Aug 26 12:08:57 <DocScrutinizer> even a cray emu
Aug 26 12:11:39 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Aug 26 12:13:02 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: well, it is definetely *possible*
Aug 26 12:13:18 <kerio> with no restrictions about speed, of course
Aug 26 12:13:41 * DocScrutinizer shrugs
Aug 26 12:14:02 * DocScrutinizer wonders what chroot is called under symbian
Aug 26 12:14:18 <kerio> write emulator, run emulator, ???, C&D!
Aug 26 12:14:47 <DocScrutinizer> though you'd probably need something more brute force than just a chroot, to make maemo blobs work under symb
Aug 26 12:15:02 <crashanddie> kerio: yes?
Aug 26 12:15:24 <kerio> not you ._.
Aug 26 12:16:21 <SpeedEvil> It would be shiny though.
Aug 26 12:16:31 <kerio> c&d as in cease and desist
Aug 26 12:16:33 <SpeedEvil> s60-wine
Aug 26 12:16:46 <kerio> wins60e
Aug 26 12:16:58 <kerio> Wine Is Not a S60 Emulator
Aug 26 12:17:00 * SpeedEvil imagines the response to that turning up in extras-devel.
Aug 26 12:18:51 <jaska> why? isnt symbian opensores?
Aug 26 12:20:39 <DocScrutinizer> jaska: is maemo oss
Aug 26 12:20:44 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Aug 26 12:21:06 <jaska> some of it
Aug 26 12:21:13 <kerio> so you see
Aug 26 12:21:20 <DocScrutinizer> and why isn't al of it oss yet?
Aug 26 12:21:30 <jaska> you mean symbian is opensores but s60 isnt, rendering it useless?
Aug 26 12:22:14 <DocScrutinizer> no, I mean you'll have same hard time as mer had, to get it running on N900 natively
Aug 26 12:22:49 <jaska> well, one would just emulate the userland interfaces, not the hw stuff
Aug 26 12:23:25 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, which firmware variant are you on
Aug 26 12:23:35 <DocScrutinizer> international?
Aug 26 12:23:40 <MohammadAG> damn
Aug 26 12:23:54 <DocScrutinizer> what else?
Aug 26 12:24:07 <MohammadAG> dpkg -l mp-fremantle*
Aug 26 12:24:08 <DocScrutinizer> UK?
Aug 26 12:24:12 <MohammadAG> nah, EU
Aug 26 12:24:22 <DocScrutinizer> there's no such thing afaik
Aug 26 12:24:35 <MohammadAG> there's US/EU/MEA and global
Aug 26 12:24:50 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, no idea
Aug 26 12:25:11 <kerio> what's the difference?
Aug 26 12:25:17 <DocScrutinizer> maybe I've chosen "western decadence"
Aug 26 12:25:18 <kerio> i think i'm on EU, or global
Aug 26 12:25:55 <DocScrutinizer> though the "A" not exactly meets this description
Aug 26 12:26:14 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Did dneary ask you if the karma count is known & up-to-date? Nominations should have been announced as available from midnight UTC and... they're not.
Aug 26 12:26:16 <MohammadAG> dpkg -l mp-fremantle*
Aug 26 12:26:24 <MohammadAG> if it's mp-fremantle-generic-pr, it's global
Aug 26 12:26:26 <MohammadAG> 002 is US
Aug 26 12:26:32 <MohammadAG> 003 is EU
Aug 26 12:26:44 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Lies
Aug 26 12:26:56 <RST38h> Mohammad: solving that no-spanish-translations problem?
Aug 26 12:27:00 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: 003 == Middle East and North Africa
Aug 26 12:27:11 <MohammadAG> ah
Aug 26 12:27:12 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Check the list at: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php
Aug 26 12:27:16 <DocScrutinizer> ii  mp-fremantle-generic-pr   10.2010.19-1
Aug 26 12:27:23 <crashanddie> GAN900: have you tried quake live lately?
Aug 26 12:30:00 <zash> there is no EU calling code
Aug 26 12:30:08 <zash> since EU isn't a country
Aug 26 12:30:24 <zash> orwhat
Aug 26 12:30:30 <ieatlint> i'm pretty sure it is
Aug 26 12:30:31 * zash has no clue of what is talked about
Aug 26 12:30:43 <ieatlint> just like africa
Aug 26 12:30:54 <kerio> tsamina mina eh eh
Aug 26 12:30:58 <kerio> waka waka eh eh
Aug 26 12:35:13 <X-Fade> Jaffa: I'll check, but I haven't seen any issues.
Aug 26 12:59:44 <dneary> Stskeeps, Ping?
Aug 26 12:59:54 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Ah, dneary's back now
Aug 26 12:59:58 <Stskeeps> dneary: pong
Aug 26 13:00:00 <Jaffa> Indeed, there ^^^
Aug 26 13:01:18 <dneary> Jaffa, Yup?
Aug 26 13:01:44 <Jaffa> dneary: Was asking X-Fade about karma status. His response "fine AFAIK"
Aug 26 13:02:02 <dneary> a. k
Aug 26 13:18:29 <RST38h> Nokia Care now on Twitter - @NokiaHelps
Aug 26 13:18:48 <RST38h> Nokia also has a US specific Nokia Care account, @NokiaCareUS, which provides support for the US market. The @NokiaHelps account provides global coverage and is run by Juha-Matti Heikkinen (@JuhisH), Social Media Editor at Nokia Care.
Aug 26 13:18:57 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Which one?
Aug 26 13:19:37 <Stskeeps> what?
Aug 26 13:21:24 <RST38h> sorry wromg channel
Aug 26 13:27:33 <RST38h> Ok, short question:
Aug 26 13:27:59 <RST38h> Standard Qt (not mobility thing). I need to implement a configuration settings page that only gets shown when (guess!) editing settings.
Aug 26 13:28:07 <RST38h> What is the best/simplest way to implement it?
Aug 26 13:35:55 <RST38h> Anyone knows where I can get help on MADDE?
Aug 26 13:45:13 <RST38h> Shit, this MADDE thing is even more useless than SB =(
Aug 26 13:51:17 <andre__> Hmm, does nobody of the maemo.org crew use qaiku anymore, or has just everybody moved on to meego already except for me? :-P
Aug 26 13:53:14 <Stskeeps> xfade used it 8 days ago :P
Aug 26 13:53:40 <andre__> I feel lonely! :-P
Aug 26 13:53:43 <parser_> Does anyone know of any bluejacking tool for the N900 running maemo 5 ?
Aug 26 13:53:45 <sx0n> RST38h, :)
Aug 26 13:53:57 <X-Fade> andre__: Yeah, I should report more.
Aug 26 13:54:17 <X-Fade> andre__: Just doing so many things at the same time that I forget to do that.
Aug 26 13:55:03 <parser_> Noone?
Aug 26 13:55:50 <andre__> X-Fade, hehe. well, wasn't meant as criticism, was just wondering :)
Aug 26 14:23:02 <pupnik_> amplifier tests - what to look for etc http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=855865
Aug 26 14:26:56 <disse> heyho
Aug 26 14:27:55 <disse> I've started the scratchbox environment, I could grab the mouse and keyboard with ctrl+shift. But I can't see my mouse cursor. I've followed this tutorial: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation
Aug 26 14:28:33 <disse> but I've forgot to -u $USER
Aug 26 14:28:46 <disse> how can I fix this problems?
Aug 26 14:29:03 <disse> or how can I reinstall?
Aug 26 14:30:56 <tobis87> hi! since omap-aes does not work yet with aes-256, i searched a bit around and then i found this: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/another_new_aes.html
Aug 26 14:31:07 <disse> my problem is solved, XD
Aug 26 14:31:40 <tobis87> aes-128 is securer than aes-256 : "In the case of AES-128, there is no known attack which is faster than the 2^128 complexity of exhaustive search." "an attack against 11-round AES-256 that requires 2^70 time (is) almost practical."
Aug 26 14:31:46 <disse> but only the mouse is not visible
Aug 26 14:36:13 <tobis87> The main problem seems to be the key schedule of AES-256, which is not of industrial strength" (..) Ironically, the new attacks work best against AES-256 (which was supposed to be the strongest member of the AES family), and do not currently seem to work against AES-128.
Aug 26 14:36:31 <tobis87> The most disturbing aspect of the new attacks is that AES can no longer be considered as a safe black box construction, which can be dropped into any security application with little thought about how it is used.
Aug 26 14:38:21 <tobis87> but what could be done about it? schneier suggests to increase the number of rounds. maybe we will see double aes in the future (2AES) ?!
Aug 26 14:38:23 <crashanddie> pardon the offence, but tobis87, are you another bruce bitch?
Aug 26 14:38:46 <crashanddie> over the past few days, you haven't come in here without quoting bruce at least once
Aug 26 14:39:23 <crashanddie> quite frankly, I don't care about aes 128 or 256 being compromised, and I doubt many in here do, it's a mobile operating system, one that gives you root access nearly out of the box
Aug 26 14:39:48 <tobis87> crashanddie: sorry? no i haven't the first time that i write about bruce. or did i, i have to check.
Aug 26 14:39:50 <Stskeeps> crashanddie: be nice, he's a contributing developer with interest in hw acceleration of crypto on n900.
Aug 26 14:39:52 <crashanddie> if anything, a hammer or torn finger will give an attacker all the passwords he needs
Aug 26 14:39:53 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 26 14:40:08 <crashanddie> Stskeeps: I know, I know, but I'm just trying to figure out what the point is
Aug 26 14:40:38 <tobis87> crashanddie: for me it is knowledge, not use.
Aug 26 14:40:45 <crashanddie> fair enough
Aug 26 14:41:35 <RST38h> The po
Aug 26 14:46:00 <tobis87> crashanddie: no, i did not mention anything from him before, but i write to much about crypto stuff. i would be willing to help about host mode, but i don't know how i could, maybe i could bugtest the kernel if it becomes available.
Aug 26 14:48:45 <crashanddie> tobis87: truth is, when it comes to security, experts like schneier were predicting the end of DES and 3DES by the end of 2002, but it's still around -- and in very security-conscious industries
Aug 26 14:49:16 <crashanddie> rather than trying to get the best encryption possible, it's usually a lot cheaper and easier to implement security measures which don't really rely on technology to be strong
Aug 26 14:49:44 <crashanddie> Why are we still using 3DES in the banking industry for online operation when we know it can be broken in a matter of hours (20 last I read, so probably 15 by now)?
Aug 26 14:50:01 <crashanddie> Well, simply because the validity of the data can be numbered in seconds.
Aug 26 14:50:02 <PerfDave> Uhm, it's more like the fact that the crypto is rarely the weak point in the security chain :)
Aug 26 14:50:28 <tobis87> crashanddie: some banks even still use os/2 (or now ecomstation)
Aug 26 14:50:50 <crashanddie> tobis87: well, depends what you're talking about, but a lot of ATMs still run windows 3.1
Aug 26 14:51:35 <crashanddie> Heck, there's an ATM in London that had the fake antivirus "You need to purchase a subscription" banner splashed in the middle of the screen
Aug 26 14:52:08 <crashanddie> That malware didn't get there through credit cards, is was put on there by a techie with too much porn on his USB drive
Aug 26 14:52:27 <tobis87> crashanddie: but why? the backward compatibility of windows is not that bad... win 3.x -> no memory protection
Aug 26 14:53:10 <tobis87> and only cooperative multitasking
Aug 26 14:53:12 <crashanddie> because ATMs are usually (if not always) third party, and it's the company that is supposed to do the maintenance
Aug 26 14:53:25 <crashanddie> well, ATMs don't really require multitasking :P
Aug 26 14:53:34 <crashanddie> you can't even display the balance and withdraw cash at the same time :D
Aug 26 14:54:38 <PerfDave> Hey, there's nothing wrong with having porn on a USB drive :p
Aug 26 14:54:44 <tobis87> crashanddie: i even see some siemens nixdorf's are still in use
Aug 26 14:56:14 <tobis87> PerfDave: Nah, I'm old enough that I don't need to hide my collection. :-D , it's more about swap and the stuff you do on it.
Aug 26 14:56:42 <MohammadAG51> ugh, i hate it when microb can't scroll with the mouse/ts
Aug 26 14:57:13 <crashanddie> tobis87: considering how old the display server is, ssh and how buggy busybox is, I'm sure there are plenty of attack vectors other than a coldboot or swap dump
Aug 26 14:58:58 <MohammadAG51> how do i restart browserd after stopping it
Aug 26 15:00:08 <MNZ> MohammadAG51, a quick grep yeilds /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon.init
Aug 26 15:04:29 <tobis87> crashanddie: if you can do it, why shouldn't you do it... nmap n900_outside_ip gives "All 1000 scanned ports are closed", you will always find a way to exploit a device locally. i just say firewire dma :)
Aug 26 15:05:28 <crashanddie> and a mobile phone is inherently local
Aug 26 15:06:08 <crashanddie> I come by your desk, have access to your phone, sit next to you on the bus, have access to your phone, heck, if we take bluetooth hacks into account, even taking a piss in the same bathroom as you is local
Aug 26 15:06:53 <kerio> the ultimate hack would be to piss on it
Aug 26 15:07:11 <kerio> explain *that* to nokia care
Aug 26 15:07:12 <crashanddie> heck, I'm almost willing to bet that as we speak, there's an app going easily through the QA process that is about to send each and everyone's keypresses wide into the internet
Aug 26 15:08:20 <MohammadAG51> MNZ, hmm, ty, browser still doesn't open pages
Aug 26 15:11:04 <tobis87> crashanddie: it always depends on how much you trust a program, there is a lot of crap, but people still think they need it. i do run tshark, from time to time to check, well except there also could be a rootkit in the background.
Aug 26 15:11:37 <crashanddie> tobis87: well, if you install any new apps in the next month or two, there definitely will be.
Aug 26 15:12:36 <DocScrutinizer51> uh?
Aug 26 15:13:08 <tobis87> crashanddie: ?, nokiasiemens enhanced update? :-D
Aug 26 15:14:28 <Duckboot> crashanddie: http://www.rootkit.nl/projects/rootkit_hunter.html
Aug 26 15:15:03 <tobis87> http://www.security-projects.com/?Unhide
Aug 26 15:16:21 <kerio> monolithic kernel ftw
Aug 26 15:17:13 <crashanddie> Duckboot: I don't see Maemo in there ;)
Aug 26 15:19:55 <crashanddie> "The first operators employed by the Bell Telephone Company were young boys who worked standing up. Only after several years did it occur to anybody to provide them with chairs."
Aug 26 15:20:59 <crashanddie> In other news, the first choirboys singing in catholic churches had to study their text being bent over. Only after several hundred years did it occur to anybody that there may be something wrong with this.
Aug 26 15:23:20 * RST38h #meego vaguely remembers comparing flahs memory prices in .PL vs .RU and they were the same
Aug 26 15:25:36 <Duckboot> crashanddie: I might package that one for Maemo.
Aug 26 15:27:32 <kerio> crashanddie: lol
Aug 26 15:28:52 <hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/08/26/switched-from-catorise-to-apmefo/
Aug 26 15:46:22 * VladNistor says hello
Aug 26 15:48:11 <VladNistor> i seem to have an issue with my N900, my clock is not showing up and it freezez when I try to open anything from the menu
Aug 26 15:48:16 <VladNistor> even after flashing it
Aug 26 15:48:44 <VladNistor> and I still have my contacts after flashing, which shouldn't happen if I read the wiki correctly
Aug 26 15:49:25 <VladNistor> and what I mean bu clock is anything to the right of my menu button until the app title, basically the notification area
Aug 26 15:49:51 <crashanddie> the contacts shouldn't be deleted
Aug 26 15:49:56 <crashanddie> unless you flash the rootfs as well
Aug 26 15:51:12 <VladNistor> I see, i did a firware update basically, thought it would get rid of the problem
Aug 26 15:51:19 <VladNistor> but it's unasble as a phone now
Aug 26 15:52:21 <VladNistor> and I can't mount it as a drive to back up my back-ups
Aug 26 15:53:29 <tobis87> Could you do df -h in xterm? Maybe the partitions are somehow messed up.
Aug 26 15:53:52 <VladNistor> i just don't get the option on the phone to select mass storage
Aug 26 15:54:28 <VladNistor> i have xterm access, yes
Aug 26 15:54:29 <tobis87> You mean, if you connect it with usb, it doesn't give you the option?
Aug 26 15:54:42 <VladNistor> nope, some of the stuff doesn't work
Aug 26 15:56:02 <VladNistor> for example if I get a call, I can answer it, but after the call ends i can't use the device anymore, need to do a hard restart for it to work again
Aug 26 15:56:05 <VladNistor> it just hangs
Aug 26 15:56:36 <VladNistor> and because i just flashed the firmware i don't know if i have ssh
Aug 26 15:57:11 <tobis87> you should try to flash it completly, root and emmc.
Aug 26 15:57:37 <VladNistor> yeah, but i'd need my backup off my emmc first :(
Aug 26 15:57:44 <tobis87> maybe something is messed up in /home/user
Aug 26 15:57:52 * VladNistor wonders why he didn't back up the backup
Aug 26 15:58:09 <VladNistor> probably so, some settings somewhere
Aug 26 15:59:30 <tobis87> yeah, that is why i asked you about the option on usb. what os do you use on your pc? you could mount a network share and copy important stuff over.
Aug 26 15:59:31 <churl> so you
Aug 26 15:59:35 <churl> sorry
Aug 26 15:59:47 <churl> so you guys hear about making calls from gmail?
Aug 26 16:00:11 <VladNistor> the output of df -h seems ok
Aug 26 16:00:23 <VladNistor> ubuntu maverick
Aug 26 16:00:49 <tobis87> have you set up a nfs server on ubuntu?
Aug 26 16:01:19 <VladNistor> lemme check
Aug 26 16:01:47 <VladNistor> nope, i can install it though
Aug 26 16:03:29 <VladNistor> tobis87, you're suggesting mounting the share and copying what I need. interesting
Aug 26 16:04:12 <tobis87> after you got nfs working on ubuntu, on n900, sudo gainroot, add extra-devel. apt-get install nfs-common, /etc/init.d/portmapper start, /etc/init.d/nfs-common start. mount ip-adress:/share /media/folder
Aug 26 16:04:35 <tobis87> cp -r important_stuff /media/folder
Aug 26 16:05:07 <VladNistor> yeah, small problem :)) i don't have root on the n900 as i just flashed it
Aug 26 16:05:40 <tobis87> apt-get install rootsh
Aug 26 16:06:36 <PerfDave> Hmm, do you need to run portmapper and nfs-common on the N900 to mount a remote NFS share?
Aug 26 16:07:20 <VladNistor> i'm not permitted :))
Aug 26 16:07:35 <tobis87> i'm not sure about nfs-common, but portmapper, yes...
Aug 26 16:07:37 <VladNistor> i'm user, not root, so can't command line such stuff
Aug 26 16:07:46 <VladNistor> yeah, i installed what I need :)
Aug 26 16:07:53 <VladNistor> on the ubuntu i mean
Aug 26 16:08:32 <VladNistor> do you know the command for the app-manager in maemo?
Aug 26 16:08:48 <tobis87> you have to install it from the application manager then, but you said that it always crashes, right? no, don't know the name
Aug 26 16:09:52 <VladNistor> yeah, i just tried through the menu, now the phone just stalls
Aug 26 16:12:02 <tobis87> VladNistor: Did you recently tried some hacks, for hildon or oc your device? My n900 also reboots if I open a folder with many pictures to fast. it the modified hildonfm from mece_, but i know how to avoid it, just need to wait a litlle bit after opening a folder.
Aug 26 16:12:09 <DocScrutinizer> hildon-application-manager or hildon-application-manager.launch
Aug 26 16:12:22 <VladNistor> yeah
Aug 26 16:12:37 <VladNistor> it was Oc'd amd I tried M's hildon stuff
Aug 26 16:12:50 <VladNistor> but i reinstalled hildon and the kernel after i got the issue
Aug 26 16:13:06 <DocScrutinizer> and the modules?
Aug 26 16:13:19 <VladNistor> it doesn't reboot, mine just hangs there
Aug 26 16:13:42 <VladNistor> yes, i had some kernel modules installed
Aug 26 16:14:01 <VladNistor> i did have some sort of kernel crash a few days ago
Aug 26 16:14:24 <DocScrutinizer> well, have fun...
Aug 26 16:14:30 <tobis87> mmh, i think it was not a good idea to allow precompiled kernel modules. some are for the old kernel before pr1.2.
Aug 26 16:14:43 <tobis87> and are not updated
Aug 26 16:14:54 <VladNistor> but the phone worked well until yesterday
Aug 26 16:15:09 <VladNistor> i would have expected stuff to go wrong after an update or smth
Aug 26 16:15:26 <DocScrutinizer> ~omap-oc
Aug 26 16:15:27 <infobot> omap-oc is, like, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05  read that!
Aug 26 16:16:36 <tobis87> open xterm, and do find . -mtime -X (X are the number of dates ago it worked), you could also do this in /lib/modules or /etc
Aug 26 16:17:35 <VladNistor> i had the oc installed but haven't actually run above 600 vor a few days
Aug 26 16:18:51 <VladNistor> what am I looking for exactly?
Aug 26 16:19:42 <tobis87> VladNistor: It's not a good idea, but it also shouldn't fry your device instancly. Check the modules in /lib/modules, if they are the right ones. But your problem is that you can't install rootsh, which you need in order to backup your data, before you do a full reflash
Aug 26 16:20:13 <VladNistor> yeah, it is. lemme see if i can run the hildon-app*
Aug 26 16:20:51 <VladNistor> wow, options no longer have names, they're like ai_li_uninstall
Aug 26 16:21:59 <VladNistor> let's see if it can update the app lists
Aug 26 16:22:43 <tobis87> could you try fsck.ext3? but i think you need to remount the home partion ro first, if this is even possible.
Aug 26 16:22:52 <VladNistor> is it normal for stuff to no longer have the display name... like it's saying wdgtbstop instead of Stop
Aug 26 16:23:13 <VladNistor> yeah, ext3 needs to be offline methinks
Aug 26 16:24:05 <VladNistor> oh, and the phone gets quite warm, which didn't happen before :-?
Aug 26 16:25:17 <tobis87> as i said, probably the home partion is messed up. taking the battery out to restart is not very healthy, if the phone stalles.
Aug 26 16:25:39 <VladNistor> i keep the power button pressed and it dies
Aug 26 16:26:09 <VladNistor> yeah, so I managed to install rootsh, but now i got a notification and it stalled, this is fun
Aug 26 16:27:03 <VladNistor> i'm restarting now... thanks for the help btw :)
Aug 26 16:27:48 <tobis87> has the same effect. the n900 should really have a sysrq key. so you could restart it if it's stalled.
Aug 26 16:28:03 <tobis87> no problem
Aug 26 16:28:09 <VladNistor> i bet they weren't expecting it to stall, lol
Aug 26 16:29:43 <tobis87> I had to work with on a server recently, and only a mac keyboard was availible. these also don't have a sysrq key.
Aug 26 16:30:40 <VladNistor> heh, they thinks osx doesn't breal
Aug 26 16:30:43 <VladNistor> break
Aug 26 16:31:31 <tobis87> the grub entry was wrong, and there was no way to reboot the machine than pushing the power button. no reboot, init, halt worked.
Aug 26 16:32:04 <tobis87> after fixing it.
Aug 26 16:33:28 <VladNistor> heh
Aug 26 16:33:39 <VladNistor> alright, i need to setup a ntfs share in ubuntu now, brb
Aug 26 16:33:56 <tobis87> no the server runs debian, but they are all apple fan boys...
Aug 26 16:35:09 <ToeiRei> Hi
Aug 26 16:35:27 <tobis87> cat "/sharename ip_broadcast_adress (e.g. 192.168.0.0/24) (rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)" > /etc/exports
Aug 26 16:36:20 <tobis87> "/etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server restart"
Aug 26 16:36:41 <ToeiRei> Is there a difference from the users point of view regarding flashing a rootfs and just 'updating' via Software updater app?
Aug 26 16:37:01 <mgedmin> ToeiRei, yes
Aug 26 16:37:18 <mgedmin> flashing removes all 3rd party apps you had installed
Aug 26 16:37:42 <ToeiRei> mgedmin: disregarding 3rd party apps and resetting anything to 'factory'
Aug 26 16:37:47 <tobis87> ToeiRei: It depends, how much stuff you have installed, how much space you have and dist-upgrades mess much more stuff up.
Aug 26 16:38:13 <ToeiRei> I see... I just got a new N900
Aug 26 16:38:14 <mgedmin> flashing is more reliable; upgrading is usually more convenient (no need to back up/restore stuff)
Aug 26 16:38:22 <tobis87> ToeiRei: Do a flash.
Aug 26 16:38:32 <zash> Do a barrel roll!
Aug 26 16:38:50 <ToeiRei> okay. Now this will get interesting.
Aug 26 16:38:53 <VladNistor> thanks tobis87, i was folloing a guid, just did that :))
Aug 26 16:40:12 <ToeiRei> okay... I found a howto on flashing and the device is at the charger... but regarding the images, what's the fiasco image?
Aug 26 16:40:50 <ToeiRei> well... the fiasco is that I can't find a proper one..
Aug 26 16:41:21 <tobis87> ToeiRei: It depends, how much you have already done on your n900. You don't need to flash emmc. Do however open xterm first, and enter touch .cherry_state
Aug 26 16:41:46 <ToeiRei> terminal? uhm... that sounds scary.
Aug 26 16:41:47 <tobis87> or was the file called
Aug 26 16:42:05 <ToeiRei> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php gives me a number of images.
Aug 26 16:42:24 <ToeiRei> eMMC and PR Versions
Aug 26 16:42:28 <tobis87> yes, after you update to pr1.2 it sends a sms to nokia with your data... if you create that file, the sms is skipped.
Aug 26 16:42:48 <tobis87> well, there is also a package for this. mom
Aug 26 16:43:15 <ToeiRei> tobis87: I don't want to brick the N900...
Aug 26 16:43:33 <ToeiRei> I'm familiar to the bash regarding linux
Aug 26 16:43:37 <VladNistor> tobis87, on my N900 i used mount address:/where-on/my/pc /home/user/MyDocs/remote but it's not giving any feedback
Aug 26 16:43:55 <tobis87> ToeiRei: you will, sometime in the future...
Aug 26 16:44:38 <ToeiRei> tobis87: I am working with linux already... I helped developing the btrfs at the kernel :P
Aug 26 16:45:07 <VladNistor> don't I need to install smth with nfs on maemo?
Aug 26 16:46:48 <tobis87> ToeiRei: open xterm and do "> .cherry_state" this will prevend the n900 from sending a sms after flashing
Aug 26 16:47:14 <tobis87> ToeiRei: http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription
Aug 26 16:47:50 <ToeiRei> ah... in /home/user.
Aug 26 16:47:51 <tobis87>  VladNistor: This will not work, MyDocs is vfat, this does not support mounting.
Aug 26 16:48:07 <ToeiRei> file created.
Aug 26 16:48:22 <VladNistor> i see, so should i do it on the 2gb one?
Aug 26 16:48:28 <VladNistor> *one=partition
Aug 26 16:48:33 <tobis87> ToeiRei: yes, now you can flash.
Aug 26 16:49:15 <ToeiRei> okay... so I can use RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ?
Aug 26 16:49:22 <tobis87> VladNistor: Is the 2gb one the home? The home is ext3, so yes
Aug 26 16:49:46 <VladNistor> tobis87, alright, so i don't need to install anything else then?
Aug 26 16:49:59 <tobis87> ToeiRei: Yes, that is the right one...
Aug 26 16:50:23 <ToeiRei> okay. so this is the fiasco image they're talking about in the howto?
Aug 26 16:50:56 <tobis87> VladNistor: No, you shouln't. I hope you don't have any firewall active. Maybe you have to check etc/hosts.allow as well on Ubuntu
Aug 26 16:52:12 <tobis87> ToeiRei: Just check the filesize the fiasco is smaller, since it doesn't need to restore emmc.
Aug 26 16:53:18 <ToeiRei> tobis87: it is smaller.
Aug 26 16:53:23 <ToeiRei> I'll give it a shot
Aug 26 16:55:26 <VladNistor> alright, so i did mount 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote
Aug 26 16:55:45 <VladNistor> the hosts.allow is empty, should I enter something there you think?
Aug 26 16:56:17 <tobis87> VladNistor: You also have to check for the permission of the folder you export. And if it is mounted, I think you can only copy as non-root because of root_squash
Aug 26 16:56:38 <tobis87> VladNistor: No, this is only needed if you can't mount it
Aug 26 16:57:06 <VladNistor> yeah, i think i'm not connected to the network with the n900, sucks having no notification area...
Aug 26 16:57:23 <VladNistor> application manager should connect fine :))
Aug 26 16:57:37 <tobis87> but how could you mount it, if you are not connected?
Aug 26 16:57:48 <ToeiRei> okay - it is flashing
Aug 26 16:57:51 <ToeiRei> yay :)
Aug 26 16:58:06 * lbt wonders how many maemo devs are interested in the movement towards MeeGo...
Aug 26 16:58:22 <Stskeeps> lbt: i was wondering about a poll earlier
Aug 26 16:58:26 <tobis87> ToeiRei: Make sure you flash kernel and root without restart.
Aug 26 16:58:47 <Stskeeps> "gtk, wanting to move to meego" "gtk, want to stay in maemo", "qt, want to move to meego", "qt, want to stay in meego" or "qt, want to go to symbian"..
Aug 26 16:58:48 <ToeiRei> I used the command from the wiki
Aug 26 16:58:50 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 26 16:58:54 <lbt> Stskeeps: I *nearly* suggested it....
Aug 26 16:59:02 <lbt> but I wanted qualitative...
Aug 26 16:59:14 <ToeiRei> kernel flashed, CMT flashed
Aug 26 17:04:33 <VladNistor> yeah, i know :(
Aug 26 17:04:40 <ToeiRei> thanks
Aug 26 17:10:03 <VladNistor> tobis97, it just sits there, no feedback on what it's doing at the mount command
Aug 26 17:10:39 <VladNistor> and i'm sure i'm online now :))
Aug 26 17:11:31 <VladNistor> oh, it says it failed: Input/output error
Aug 26 17:16:00 <tobis87> try mount -o nolock 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote
Aug 26 17:19:24 <VladNistor> yeah, i got a call, rebooting :|
Aug 26 17:19:46 <VladNistor> it said permission denied when i used mount -t nfs
Aug 26 17:20:14 <VladNistor> i'll try with the -o nolock :)
Aug 26 17:20:43 <tobis87> your export should be: /home/nistor/N900 /home/remote 192.168.0.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)
Aug 26 17:20:59 <tobis87> argh no, /home/nistor/N900 192.168.0.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)
Aug 26 17:21:14 <tobis87> no /home/nistor/N900 /home/remote 192.168.1.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)
Aug 26 17:21:47 <tobis87> i'd not have enough coffee today /home/nistor/N900 192.168.1.0/24(rw,root_squash,no_subtree_check,async)
Aug 26 17:22:59 <tobis87> hosts.deny: ALL : ALL
Aug 26 17:23:09 <tobis87> hosts.allow: ALL     : localhost : ALLOW
Aug 26 17:23:14 <tobis87> portmap : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW
Aug 26 17:23:19 <tobis87> nfsd    : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW
Aug 26 17:23:23 <tobis87> mountd  : 192.168.1.0/24 : ALLOW
Aug 26 17:25:29 <tobis87> and you need to restart nfs-kernel-server and portmapper
Aug 26 17:26:46 <VladNistor> nolock works mate, thanks a bunch
Aug 26 17:27:44 <tobis87> try to copy the files first, before you thank me. there could still be some permisson problems.
Aug 26 17:33:41 <VladNistor> yeah, just issued the command, nothing going on yet, let's see :))
Aug 26 17:33:55 <VladNistor> i could make a dir in /home/remote, so i dunno
Aug 26 17:36:02 <VladNistor> it wrote a couple of files so i guess it's working
Aug 26 17:36:29 <tobis87> it does not show, what it is doing, if you use cp -vr it should be verbose.
Aug 26 17:37:29 <tobis87> That was hard work, I hope you really need these files. I would always save important stuff on the sd card.
Aug 26 17:37:33 <VladNistor> it's quite slow, only wrote 700k so far :))
Aug 26 17:37:43 <VladNistor> i don't have an sd card :(
Aug 26 17:39:14 <tobis87> yes, i have seen this as well, i thought it was only a problem with openvpn. i tried using nfs over openvpn. so nfs is already slow, but why? power saving?
Aug 26 17:40:16 <VladNistor> i have no clue, reduced the size of the transfer, not taking everything i wanted, it would take days :))
Aug 26 17:43:03 <tobis87> is net.ipv4.tcp_window_scaling enabled? check "cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_window_scaling", if it returns 0, do as root echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_window_scaling
Aug 26 17:43:51 <VladNistor> on N900 or Ubuntu?
Aug 26 17:44:41 <tobis87> both, mmh, but this can't be really the issue.
Aug 26 17:45:37 <VladNistor> they both have 1 :)
Aug 26 17:46:38 <tobis87> I don't now than. But I would also like to know why nfs is so slow on the n900.
Aug 26 17:47:53 <VladNistor> yeah, me too
Aug 26 17:50:25 <tobis87> let's test some stuff... do echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max; echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_max
Aug 26 17:52:08 <tobis87> echo "4096 87380 16777216" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rmem; echo "4096 65536 16777216" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_wmem
Aug 26 17:53:17 <tobis87> echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_timestamps; echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_sack
Aug 26 17:54:17 <VladNistor> sorry, i was fixing something to eat while i wait
Aug 26 17:54:34 <VladNistor> tobis87, on both, right?
Aug 26 17:54:56 <tobis87> on both machines and try it again. i hope it helps, disabling sack, and timestamps should reduce the cpu load and the other stuff increases the max buffer for tcp.
Aug 26 17:54:58 <tobis87> yes
Aug 26 17:56:00 <VladNistor> it says permission denied on the ubuntu
Aug 26 17:56:02 <VladNistor> with sudo also
Aug 26 17:56:18 <tobis87> which command
Aug 26 17:56:24 <VladNistor> first
Aug 26 17:56:34 <VladNistor> echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max; echo 16777216 > /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_max
Aug 26 17:56:50 <tobis87> you have to be root, not sudo. sudo su and than the command again
Aug 26 17:56:54 <zash> VladNistor: sudo echo foo > somefile isn't opening the file with sudo permissions
Aug 26 17:57:05 <zash> VladNistor: try echo ... | sudo tee /proc/sys...
Aug 26 17:57:12 <VladNistor> oh, i see
Aug 26 17:57:13 <VladNistor> thanks
Aug 26 17:57:44 <zash> since > redirection is done by the shell
Aug 26 18:02:09 <VladNistor> it's not copying anything :|
Aug 26 18:02:37 <VladNistor> i gave it the copy -r source destination but nothing is written on my hard drive
Aug 26 18:03:11 <tobis87> you should also try to mount the nfs share with mount -o nolock,hard,intr,rsize=8192,wsize=8192 192.168.1.3:/home/nistor/N900 /home/remote
Aug 26 18:03:47 <VladNistor> alright, i'll try that :)
Aug 26 18:03:57 <VladNistor> in a minute though
Aug 26 18:03:57 <tobis87> mmh, and do cp -rv
Aug 26 18:05:25 <tobis87> and make sure there is async in exports
Aug 26 18:11:27 <VladNistor> there is async
Aug 26 18:11:44 <VladNistor> and i got a call and had to restart :|
Aug 26 18:12:56 <tobis87> forget the /proc/sys stuff, I'm sure rsize and wsize will improve it.
Aug 26 18:16:56 <VladNistor> thanks, the -rv option doesn't work, it seems to have a problem with the v
Aug 26 18:18:47 <VladNistor> doesn't seem to like that :))
Aug 26 18:19:03 <tobis87> do you have coreutils installed? it would be gcp then
Aug 26 18:19:24 <VladNistor> man, thanks, it's 10000000 times faster :D
Aug 26 18:19:39 <tobis87> warp speed!
Aug 26 18:19:58 <VladNistor> 40 mb so far :))
Aug 26 18:21:26 <VladNistor> yeah, it slowed a bit, but it's good :)
Aug 26 18:22:04 <tobis87> when will anything ever work on the n900, without hours of work. At least we have again learned something from it.
Aug 26 18:22:29 <tobis87> up until the next call :-D
Aug 26 18:24:03 <VladNistor> yup, seems to have stopped though, nothing added in a minute :-?
Aug 26 18:26:17 <tobis87> don't know maybe it swaps out to disk.
Aug 26 18:28:08 <tobis87> have you changed the default swapiness? it uses the unused memory, as a buffer.
Aug 26 18:29:47 <VladNistor> hasn't done anything in like 5 minutes
Aug 26 18:30:09 <VladNistor> then again i don't know how big the file is...
Aug 26 18:30:18 <tobis87> how?
Aug 26 18:30:31 <tobis87> gls -Fho
Aug 26 18:31:43 <johnsq> Hi
Aug 26 18:31:53 <tobis87> or ls -h for busybox I think
Aug 26 18:32:57 <th3hate> how to make busybox support bash commands?
Aug 26 18:33:14 <johnsq> use bash
Aug 26 18:33:22 <MohammadAG51> install bash and don't use busybox
Aug 26 18:33:36 <th3hate> the package is called bash?
Aug 26 18:33:39 <johnsq> MohammadAG51: ^5 :)
Aug 26 18:33:54 <VladNistor> doesn't work
Aug 26 18:34:09 <MohammadAG51> bash or bash3, not sure
Aug 26 18:34:09 <VladNistor> the Fho, but there are 6 files and i only have 2
Aug 26 18:34:18 <tobis87> apt-get install coreutils-gnu bash
Aug 26 18:34:20 <MohammadAG51> johnsq, ^C
Aug 26 18:35:05 <tobis87> echo "source /etc/bash.bashrc" >> /etc/profile
Aug 26 18:35:17 <tobis87> and reopen xterm
Aug 26 18:35:29 <VladNistor> hmmm, i doubt it's normal for the transfer to not do anything, and i'm sure i'm online
Aug 26 18:35:44 <tobis87> you can also edit /sbin/gainroot and change sh to bash
Aug 26 18:37:38 <tobis87> VladNistor: I don't know, but your n900 is serious borked. How important is this file for you? Is it an encrypted container, or why is that file so big?
Aug 26 18:37:56 <VladNistor> it's the backed up contacts and settings
Aug 26 18:38:06 <VladNistor> and app list :))
Aug 26 18:39:23 <VladNistor> oh, i'm gonna try something else, i think i have the contacts exported somewhere
Aug 26 18:40:28 <MohammadAG51> how big is it?
Aug 26 18:40:32 <tobis87> Do you really need the settings and the apps? Every day there are new versions in extra and -devel, you won't be able to restore all apps without work anyway. You could write down your contacts on paper.
Aug 26 18:40:55 <VladNistor> total is 87 mb
Aug 26 18:41:24 <MohammadAG51> heh, mine are around 65 or so
Aug 26 18:41:31 <VladNistor> all 260 of them? =))
Aug 26 18:42:15 <tobis87> So, you got 40mb, before it stoped. Why don't you try to split the file or compress it?
Aug 26 18:42:15 <VladNistor> i did a ctr+c on the cp -r command and it doesn't stop :(
Aug 26 18:42:44 <VladNistor> they're 5 zips and a metadata
Aug 26 18:43:18 <tobis87> open another xterm, sudo gainroot; ps ax | grep cp; kill -9 (pid of cp)
Aug 26 18:44:49 <VladNistor> i have a udhcpc, would that be it?
Aug 26 18:45:02 <VladNistor> it stopped, yay
Aug 26 18:45:31 <tobis87> yes, tar the stuff. and split it.
Aug 26 18:46:56 <VladNistor> what are the options for tar again? i can
Aug 26 18:47:00 <VladNistor> i can't remember them
Aug 26 18:48:54 <MohammadAG51> j for tar.bz2
Aug 26 18:48:57 <MohammadAG51> z for tar.gz
Aug 26 18:49:05 <tobis87> tar cvf name.tar file file file ....
Aug 26 18:49:06 <MohammadAG51> x to extract, v for verbose
Aug 26 18:49:14 <MohammadAG51> c to create
Aug 26 18:49:37 <VladNistor> yeah, i googled it :))
Aug 26 18:50:26 <tobis87> but you should really use gtar, apt-get install gnu-tar, gtar czvf name.tar.gz file file file ....
Aug 26 18:51:25 <VladNistor> yeah, i should, but i don't have stuff installed on it
Aug 26 18:51:33 <merlin1991> tar vs gtar what exactly is the difference?
Aug 26 18:52:40 <tobis87> merlin1991: i think gnu-tar supports more options. the default stuff on the n900 is busybox which is crap, if you are used to work with the gnu utils.
Aug 26 18:53:27 <johnsq> merlin1991: the one does a good job in 10k the other need 100 mb for nothing more
Aug 26 18:53:52 <johnsq> this is called the gnu syndrom
Aug 26 18:54:14 <tobis87> but you now really need to install coreutils, for gsplit.
Aug 26 18:57:11 <tobis87> johnsq: it depends, i have if [ "$TERM" != "dumb" ]; then eval "`gdircolors -b`" alias gls='gls -Fho --color=auto --group-directories-first' alias ggrep='ggrep --color=auto' in /etc/bash.bashrc... working in xterm is much nicer with this.
Aug 26 18:57:16 <frals> hmm
Aug 26 18:57:26 <frals> what the requirements of being picked to maemo select?
Aug 26 18:57:38 <frals> s/what/what's/
Aug 26 18:57:38 <infobot> frals meant: what's the requirements of being picked to maemo select?
Aug 26 18:57:42 <mece> big boobs
Aug 26 18:57:57 <johnsq> tobis87: iiiih colors....
Aug 26 18:58:31 <tobis87> yes, grep is much nicer with color. search terms in red.
Aug 26 19:22:27 <rtyler> halp! would it be possible to change the default browser used when clicking on links and such to use Opera Mobile instead of the builtin Mozilla-based browser?
Aug 26 19:22:34 * rtyler is using an n900 FWIW
Aug 26 19:22:40 <MohammadAG> * Loaded log from Tue Jun 22 14:25:34 2010 <-- ~ sweet ~
Aug 26 19:24:36 <satmd> rtyler: Browser Switchboard is in one of the repositories
Aug 26 19:26:22 <Khertan> mece, if you use the gitorious version the pylint plugin is now fully working
Aug 26 19:37:47 <VladNistor> thanks tobis87, i've now flashed the emmc and it works like a charm :P
Aug 26 19:39:16 <MohammadAG> SDK installation fail
Aug 26 19:39:21 <MohammadAG> Installing from Debian packages.
Aug 26 19:39:21 <MohammadAG> dpkg: status database area is locked by another process
Aug 26 19:39:21 <MohammadAG> Installation was successful!
Aug 26 19:39:30 <rtyler> satmd: thanks for the tip :)
Aug 26 19:41:06 <tobis87> VladNistor: That was hard work, but why does it fail after 40MB?
Aug 26 19:41:34 <VladNistor> i have no clue mate, maybe the connection droped :-?
Aug 26 19:41:46 <VladNistor> i had no notification area so couldn't confirm visually
Aug 26 19:42:49 <tobis87> VladNistor: But tcp has a timeout of 2h. I think it's this power saving stuff. Can't this get disabled in the driver wl1252?
Aug 26 19:43:32 <tobis87> or have at least an option in /proc/sys
Aug 26 19:43:32 <VladNistor> it's happened to me quite often before i installed autodisconnect to get a wifi connection dropped
Aug 26 19:43:52 <VladNistor> not as open as we'de like, is it?
Aug 26 19:44:38 <tobis87> VladNistor: autodisconnect, why? the driver already does this. depends, there is source for wl1252, but i think it requires a binary blob.
Aug 26 19:45:23 <Stskeeps> wl1251
Aug 26 19:45:24 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 26 19:45:32 <VladNistor> i don't know, but i'd be surfing the web, reading a long page for example and 3-4 minutes later when i was done the connection was gone
Aug 26 19:45:42 <VladNistor> wifi that is
Aug 26 19:48:26 <tobis87> Stskeeps: wl1251, yes i didn't wanted to start the n900. again, i had enough to fumble today already. did you test nfs? i mean the n900 already brings the nfs kernel module with it.
Aug 26 19:49:43 <tobis87> Stskeeps: can this be caused by the autodisconector? i also had slow speed with nfs over openvp.
Aug 26 19:50:50 <tobis87> Stskeep: Mounting with rsize=8192,wsize=8192 really does improve the speed, but how can it break after some time?
Aug 26 20:00:04 * ShadowJK wonders if skype on N810 is still "working"
Aug 26 20:11:23 <homeasvs> anyone know how I can further debug an /etc/init.d service that is not starting up for some reason ?
Aug 26 20:14:24 <tobis87> homeasvs: the files in /etc/init.d/ are scripts. you can open them in vim, if you know what it does, e. g. foo bar, you can run gdb foo and then enter start bar in gdb
Aug 26 20:15:22 <homeasvs> tobis87, the script runs fine when I run it as root by hand, but I'm wondering how I can debug why it doesn't start at boot time
Aug 26 20:15:33 <homeasvs> the headers look the same as some other scripts that do startup, the dependencies exist, ...
Aug 26 20:15:47 <homeasvs> afaict there is no system log being written, so don't know where any startup errors would end up either...
Aug 26 20:16:27 <ShadowJK> oh wow, I enabled Skype on N900, and enabled "Show my location", it's eating so much power now :)
Aug 26 20:18:10 <jacktheripper> apt-get dist-upgrade is spitting out this:
Aug 26 20:18:21 <jacktheripper>   upstart: PreDepends: sysvinit-utils (>= 2.86.ds1-23) or
Aug 26 20:18:21 <mgedmin> homeasvs, n900?
Aug 26 20:18:21 <jacktheripper>                        busybox (>= 3:1.6.1.legal-1osso8) but it is not going to be installed
Aug 26 20:18:26 <tobis87> homeasvs: the n900 does not use init.d, it uses upstart
Aug 26 20:18:29 <mgedmin> homeasvs, it doesn't use /etc/init.d
Aug 26 20:18:36 <jacktheripper> I have a newer busybox. Where's the problem ?
Aug 26 20:18:41 <mgedmin> homeasvs, you need to write an (old-style) upstrart script in /etc/init/
Aug 26 20:18:49 <mgedmin> wait, or was it /etc/event.d/?
Aug 26 20:18:49 <GAN900> ShadowJK, seems to be OK for me with rtcom location showing once it gets a fix.
Aug 26 20:18:59 <mgedmin> one is old-style upstart, one is new-style upstart
Aug 26 20:20:02 <homeasvs> mgedmin, really ? ok, I'll check, I had no idea!
Aug 26 20:20:36 <tobis87> you even have to add an entry to event.d in order to load modules on boot
Aug 26 20:20:42 <kerio> jacktheripper: dist-upgrade is not meant to be used
Aug 26 20:20:45 <kerio> by anyone
Aug 26 20:20:45 <kerio> ever
Aug 26 20:20:53 <kerio> it's there for...
Aug 26 20:20:58 <kerio> why is dist-upgrade there?
Aug 26 20:21:04 <jacktheripper> but how can I upgrade hildon-desktop ?
Aug 26 20:21:11 <ShadowJK> Everybody is supposed to use the GUI :)
Aug 26 20:21:13 <kerio> apt-get update
Aug 26 20:21:17 <kerio> apt-get upgrade
Aug 26 20:21:20 <kerio> duh
Aug 26 20:21:29 <jacktheripper> it's listed with the 'kept back' packages
Aug 26 20:21:50 <mgedmin> jacktheripper, I'd say you have some repositories enabled that don't work properly for maemo
Aug 26 20:22:29 <jacktheripper> could it be the community SSU's repo ?
Aug 26 20:22:45 <mgedmin> can't say; I've never tried that one
Aug 26 20:23:09 <mgedmin> I could try it
Aug 26 20:23:20 <mgedmin> can you paste the relevant deb line from /etc/apt-sources.d/?
Aug 26 20:23:25 <jacktheripper> the link is in #maemo-ssu
Aug 26 20:23:31 <jacktheripper> there's a .install file if you prefer it
Aug 26 20:23:37 <jacktheripper> I'll paste the line now, sec
Aug 26 20:24:14 <jacktheripper> deb http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/repo  fremantle-1.2.1 free
Aug 26 20:24:18 <mgedmin> hm, maybe I should upgrade my n900 first
Aug 26 20:28:53 <MohammadAG> jacktheripper, you know... if I wanted to paste the line here in #maemo I wouldn't have made a channel for it
Aug 26 20:30:13 <jacktheripper> uhh, he asked for it.
Aug 26 20:30:34 <MohammadAG> :/
Aug 26 20:30:57 <jacktheripper> and I don't know if the problem is coming from your repo. So I just asked here.
Aug 26 20:31:34 <MohammadAG> the repo is not ready for the general public, how'd you get the link anyways?
Aug 26 20:31:50 <jacktheripper> #maemo-ssu
Aug 26 20:31:54 <kerio> LOL GUYS I'M TOTALLY ADDING THAT REPO WHAT COULD GO WRONG
Aug 26 20:32:14 <MohammadAG> nothing
Aug 26 20:32:26 <MohammadAG> the only thing missing is a proper SSU package
Aug 26 20:32:35 <kerio> so... it does nothing?
Aug 26 20:32:42 <kerio> no, wait, what does it upgrade?
Aug 26 20:32:47 <kerio> will stuff be newer?
Aug 26 20:32:55 <MohammadAG> which I'm working on atm, I just need the EU mp-fremantle-203-pr package
Aug 26 20:33:04 <MohammadAG> uh, I thought you weren't a noob
Aug 26 20:33:24 <MohammadAG> need to rsync list of channels bah
Aug 26 20:33:39 <jacktheripper> oh so I would better remove the repo until you're done with it ?
Aug 26 20:33:58 <MohammadAG> If I was done with it you'd see an announce thread...
Aug 26 20:34:37 <jacktheripper> okay then. Sorry for all the noise.
Aug 26 20:35:10 <kerio> omg new modest and new hildon-* stuff SQUEEEEEEEEEE~
Aug 26 20:35:25 <MohammadAG> well, since no one here cba to post the damn 203 package, I'll rip it out of the firmware package
Aug 26 20:35:28 <MohammadAG> lazy arses :P
Aug 26 20:35:43 <MohammadAG> or... I could drop support for EU users
Aug 26 20:35:49 <MohammadAG> who cares about those anyways :P
Aug 26 20:36:19 <kerio> MohammadAG: i think anyone who's not using the generic one deserves it
Aug 26 20:36:36 <MohammadAG> generic support is already there, you can upgrade
Aug 26 20:37:02 <MohammadAG> 16 mins to download a damn file for a 16kb package
Aug 26 20:37:17 <MohammadAG> hmm
Aug 26 20:37:54 <MohammadAG> kerio, before you upgrade
Aug 26 20:38:01 <MohammadAG> what version of modest does PR1.2 have?
Aug 26 20:38:09 <kerio> cba to check, playing transformice
Aug 26 20:38:16 <MohammadAG> o_o
Aug 26 20:38:16 <kerio> it's not like i use modest anyway
Aug 26 20:38:21 * MohammadAG disables repo
Aug 26 20:38:26 <kerio> lol
Aug 26 20:40:00 <kerio> MohammadAG: not to be insulting, but i have no way to reflash as of now
Aug 26 20:40:07 <kerio> and i like my n900 working
Aug 26 20:40:13 <kerio> :3
Aug 26 20:40:23 <mgedmin> MohammadAG, modest 3.2.13-3+0m5
Aug 26 20:40:23 <kerio> it's not that i don't trust you or anything
Aug 26 20:40:26 <MohammadAG> I don't get a word you're saying, repo disabled for now
Aug 26 20:40:34 <MohammadAG> mgedmin, ty
Aug 26 20:41:43 <kerio> MohammadAG: not using your repo now, probably will do that once the usb is fixed
Aug 26 20:41:49 <MohammadAG> it's disabled
Aug 26 20:41:55 <MohammadAG> http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/repo
Aug 26 20:42:27 <kerio> i read that as mohammadawg, not sure hwy
Aug 26 20:42:27 <kerio> *why
Aug 26 20:42:29 <jacktheripper> usb is fixed ? is it broken ?
Aug 26 20:42:48 <kerio> my microusb port is brok
Aug 26 20:42:55 <kerio> :(
Aug 26 20:42:59 <jacktheripper> heh, thought it's in the software
Aug 26 20:43:02 <jacktheripper> good luck with that
Aug 26 20:43:06 <kerio> it's not about luck
Aug 26 20:43:15 <kerio> it's about bugging the nokia care enough to get an instant replacement
Aug 26 20:43:17 <kerio> :D
Aug 26 20:43:29 <kerio> no downtime is the best downtime
Aug 26 20:43:40 <jacktheripper> lol
Aug 26 20:43:55 <kerio> getting it fixed is... meh
Aug 26 20:45:27 <kerio> the screen has minor problems, the internal battery sucks, the screen cover is all scratched, the red camera led is MIA
Aug 26 20:45:42 <kerio> it's only fair for nokia to provide me with a full replacement, right? :P
Aug 26 20:45:47 <tripzero> do we know what harmattan's package management format is?
Aug 26 20:45:57 <jacktheripper> of course!
Aug 26 20:46:04 <mgedmin> I'm confused
Aug 26 20:46:12 <kerio> tripzero: it should be dpkg
Aug 26 20:46:15 <kerio> last i heard
Aug 26 20:46:29 <tripzero> will still use autobuilder then?
Aug 26 20:46:30 <mgedmin> if I have bzr 2.0.2-0ubuntu1maemo0, and extras-devel has bzr 2.0.2-0ubuntu1maemo0 (same version!), why does apt-get want to upgrade bzr?
Aug 26 20:46:39 * tripzero wonders how community packages will work
Aug 26 20:46:57 <Jaffa> tripzero: That's what's currently being discussed on meego-*
Aug 26 20:47:44 <tripzero> hopefully, some resources will be put around the meego public obs
Aug 26 20:48:23 <MohammadAG> mgedmin, probably because you installed the one you have using dpkg, instead of the repos
Aug 26 20:48:34 <Jaffa> tripzero: See achipa & qgil's sub-thread on meego-community in the "Building apps which require proprietary code on the MeeGo OBS"
Aug 26 20:48:55 <mgedmin> MohammadAG, you're probably right -- I tested the deb before uploading it to extras
Aug 26 20:49:00 <mgedmin> I didn't know apt remembered such details
Aug 26 20:49:45 <kerio> repo has priority over local
Aug 26 20:51:35 <mgedmin> apt is incredibly slow on the n900
Aug 26 20:51:51 <tripzero> flash is slow
Aug 26 20:51:53 <mgedmin> I wonder if rpm will be an improvement in this aspect
Aug 26 20:52:00 <tripzero> doubtful
Aug 26 20:52:22 <kerio> apt is pretty fast here :|
Aug 26 20:53:02 <MNZ> * confirmed apt is fast, marking as wontfix
Aug 26 20:53:12 <kerio> NOTABUG
Aug 26 20:53:20 <tripzero> hehe
Aug 26 20:53:24 <MNZ>  /sarcasm
Aug 26 20:54:32 <GAN900> mgedmin, probably hardware more than software.
Aug 26 20:54:32 <MohammadAG> <mgedmin> I wonder if rpm will be an improvement in this aspect
Aug 26 20:54:44 <MohammadAG> download fedora, chroot into it, try it
Aug 26 20:54:52 <MohammadAG> you'll facepalm immediately
Aug 26 20:55:10 <MNZ> we should use yum
Aug 26 20:55:25 <MNZ> I like making a sandwich before my packages start installing.
Aug 26 20:55:34 <MNZ> It lets you relax you know? yummmm
Aug 26 20:56:11 <tripzero> zypper ftw
Aug 26 20:56:36 <tobis87> don't remember me on this rpm stuff, i had a hell of time using rpm with yum ~8 years ago.
Aug 26 20:56:56 <tripzero> i hear it's improved a bit in the last 8 years
Aug 26 20:57:18 <tripzero> but speed has only improved as computers have gotten faster during that time
Aug 26 20:57:20 <MNZ> I used yum sometimes last year, marking as NOTFUN
Aug 26 20:57:47 <tobis87> yeah, but software improves  in general. why should i try to use a tool which i did not liked some years ago. if there are valid alternatives.
Aug 26 20:58:46 <tobis87> i like arch with pacman as well as deb of corse. But arch breaks too much stuff if you update.
Aug 26 20:59:58 <tobis87> I think it Frugalware with LXDE is quiete nice, seen it a week ago on Distrowatch... Might give it a try, there will also be a new release this month.
Aug 26 21:00:06 * mgedmin used red hat 5.4 a long time ago, before switching to Debian
Aug 26 21:00:25 <mgedmin> I had the impression rpm was faster than apt back then
Aug 26 21:00:26 <MNZ> my fav package management was slackware's....
Aug 26 21:00:30 <mgedmin> because it tried to do less?
Aug 26 21:00:46 <mgedmin> because it had binary databases (that kept being corrupted) instead of plain text files that take ages to load?
Aug 26 21:00:59 <tobis87> MNZ: I'm too young for slackware, never used it.
Aug 26 21:01:22 <MNZ> mgedmin, I'm not speaking of rpm itself, but yum....
Aug 26 21:02:03 <mgedmin> admittedly I was talking about the combination (apt-get + dpkg) and hoping meego's use of zypper (?) + rpm might be an improvement in at least one respect
Aug 26 21:02:04 <MNZ> tobis87, you should try LFS :D it's quite a bit of fun to install (and maintain) a working copy of LFS
Aug 26 21:02:21 <mgedmin> iirc writing an rpm .spec file was also much easier than writing debian/*
Aug 26 21:03:24 <MNZ> mgedmin, that, I will give you. debian/* is quite hellish :/
Aug 26 21:04:09 <tobis87> MNZ: I had enough experience with Gentoo. It's nice to have the newest stuff. But really if you are able to use dpkg-buildpackage, patch and so on, it's not that hard to backport debian packages to older releases.
Aug 26 21:04:55 <tobis87> Eventually your base system will be from the stone-age... But well, I'm not in the mood of updating my system every year.
Aug 26 21:05:12 <tobis87> I mean dist-upgrade
Aug 26 21:05:14 <PerfDave> TBH the problem is less with the packaging format, and more with the QA process for the distro. IMHO Debian has it best, but there are apt-based distributions which are worse than some rpm-based ones.
Aug 26 21:05:21 <mgedmin> tobis87, want to give a try and backport collectd to Ubuntu 6.06/
Aug 26 21:05:23 <mgedmin> ?
Aug 26 21:05:36 * mgedmin tried, gave up
Aug 26 21:05:59 <tobis87> mgedmin: Nah, I've recently backported Firefox 3.6.8 to Ubuntu 7.10
Aug 26 21:10:05 <tobis87> I hate that I wasn't able to backport Dolphin (The new GameCube, Wii emulator)
Aug 26 21:11:10 <crashanddie> tobis87: i think the whole point about gentoo was that with a simple write-once-use-many ebuild files, anyone could deploy a specific version of a package
Aug 26 21:11:25 <crashanddie> tobis87: whereas with debian, you actually need to build the package, then transfer the binary
Aug 26 21:11:41 <rd> Does anybody know if I can use an external bluetooth GPS mouse instead of the built-in GPS receiver in the N900?
Aug 26 21:12:05 <kerio> gps mouse?
Aug 26 21:12:07 <kerio> :o
Aug 26 21:12:07 <GAN900> crashanddie, no.
Aug 26 21:12:08 <tobis87> mgedmin: Too much work, really... But somehow sad that you always have to do the whole configuration again, while everything works... for new features and security.
Aug 26 21:12:11 <kerio> i think you can
Aug 26 21:12:15 <GAN900> rd, yes.
Aug 26 21:12:32 <rd> how to I tell the N900 to use the external mouse?
Aug 26 21:13:03 <crashanddie> GAN900: well, the point about their ebuild files, not "the whole point of gentoo", obviously
Aug 26 21:13:21 <mgedmin> rd, it is hardcoded the way out in some respects (e.g. the X server is hacked so that it will never display a mouse cursor), iirc
Aug 26 21:14:12 <rd> I am not talking about a mouse, but a GPS receiver (often called GPS mouse, not sure why, maybe because of the form factor?)
Aug 26 21:14:15 <tobis87> crashanddie: Have you tried to rebuild world? I've failed so often, it is just unstable... I don't like if you have to hunt for patches and do reverse-dependencies.
Aug 26 21:14:48 <crashanddie> yeah, rebuild world was a bitch
Aug 26 21:14:55 <crashanddie> I don't think I ever managed to go through a single one without failure
Aug 26 21:15:08 <crashanddie> or without removing dozens of commented lines in a poorly documented portage file
Aug 26 21:15:10 <johnsq> tobis87: sorry, but gentoo unstable works since years perfect for me
Aug 26 21:16:00 <PerfDave> Yay, distro wars, the most interesting thing on IRC :)
Aug 26 21:16:33 <kerio> gentoo stage1 > else
Aug 26 21:16:35 <johnsq> tobis87: but i don't use kde + gnome
Aug 26 21:16:36 <crashanddie> ok, I'll change the subject
Aug 26 21:16:42 <tobis87> depends, the first months it is all fancy to rebuild programs from scratch, cflags and all this stuff.... But really, I now want it stable...
Aug 26 21:16:51 <kerio> -O8
Aug 26 21:17:05 <crashanddie> African debt: 200-something billion dollars
Aug 26 21:17:23 <crashanddie> Planned cost of the Iraq war: 60 billion
Aug 26 21:17:24 <tobis87> kerio: -ffast-math -funroll and all this stuff
Aug 26 21:17:30 <crashanddie> Actual cost? 3000 billion.
Aug 26 21:17:32 <rd> found it: through settings, location I can add an external GPS receiver.
Aug 26 21:17:40 <mgedmin> tobis87, Settings -> Location -> Pair new device?
Aug 26 21:17:50 <kerio> --get-something-done
Aug 26 21:17:51 <GAN900> crashanddie, Quake Live. Keep up. :P
Aug 26 21:17:53 <mgedmin> sorry, that was to rd
Aug 26 21:18:04 <mgedmin> I need better tools to help me chat on irc
Aug 26 21:18:07 <crashanddie> GAN900: that was so almost 9 hours ago
Aug 26 21:18:18 <rd> mgedmin, yes that works, thank you.
Aug 26 21:18:18 <mgedmin> xchat doesn't even try to help untangle conversations
Aug 26 21:18:53 <tobis87> funniest thing was mfpmath=sse,387
Aug 26 21:19:03 <tobis87> mgedmin: Sorry?
Aug 26 21:19:14 <johnsq> mgedmin: turn on brain
Aug 26 21:19:22 <mgedmin> tobis87, nick miscompletion/brain fart, please ignore
Aug 26 21:19:39 <mgedmin> johnsq, brain is busy with other things
Aug 26 21:20:27 <johnsq> cmake didn't like qemu
Aug 26 21:21:31 <mgedmin> actually, 20% of the brain is busy with other things; the remaining 80% seems to be missing
Aug 26 21:21:53 <mgedmin> thank god for unit tests
Aug 26 21:22:51 <GAN900> crashanddie, asynchronous communications. Meh. :P
Aug 26 21:23:03 <crashanddie> GAN900: try email
Aug 26 21:23:15 <crashanddie> GAN900: watch this: http://www.ted.com/talks/david_mccandless_the_beauty_of_data_visualization.html
Aug 26 21:24:10 <Gadgetoid_n900> eeep my eyes!
Aug 26 21:25:59 <Gadgetoid_n900> Game gripper is wtfawesome!
Aug 26 21:26:58 <ToJa92> [Gadgetoid_n900]: You got it today?
Aug 26 21:27:41 <Gadgetoid_n900> got it last week, just got an n900 to test it with
Aug 26 21:27:49 <ToJa92> oh
Aug 26 21:28:04 <ToJa92> It thought it was pretty good but it should have been a little bit longer
Aug 26 21:28:53 <kerio> ToJa92: that's what she said
Aug 26 21:29:00 <Gadgetoid_n900> its a wee bit rough around the edges, and the power hole doesnt quite line up
Aug 26 21:29:09 <kerio> Gadgetoid_n900: she also said that
Aug 26 21:29:14 <ToJa92> [kerio]: Yeah I guess, lol
Aug 26 21:29:16 <Gadgetoid_n900> but control wise- its really quite good
Aug 26 21:29:32 <jacktheripper> Gadgetoid_n900: how does it connect to the phone ?
Aug 26 21:29:34 <ToJa92> only thing I don't think is perfect is the dpad
Aug 26 21:29:47 <ToJa92> [jacktheripper]: You slide it on over the keyboard
Aug 26 21:29:58 <jacktheripper> lol pretty smart
Aug 26 21:30:14 <ToJa92> yeah, it doesn't require any batteries either
Aug 26 21:30:29 <ToJa92> well apart from the fact that the n900 need battery
Aug 26 21:30:55 <Gadgetoid_n900> its not the best situation for creating a great d-pad, but theres still worse
Aug 26 21:31:09 <Gadgetoid_n900> its better than the xbox dpad anyway
Aug 26 21:31:39 <kerio> what keys does it use for the dpad?
Aug 26 21:31:45 <kerio> wadx?
Aug 26 21:32:16 <ToJa92> wasd
Aug 26 21:32:20 <ToJa92> and some other keys
Aug 26 21:32:25 <ToJa92> err
Aug 26 21:32:29 <ToJa92> wasd for the dpad.
Aug 26 21:32:40 <kerio> wasd?
Aug 26 21:32:44 <kerio> it's decentered :|
Aug 26 21:32:48 <ToJa92> sorry for confusing you, waxd
Aug 26 21:32:53 <kerio> oh, i see
Aug 26 21:32:55 <kerio> nice
Aug 26 21:33:04 <kerio> do all key combos work?
Aug 26 21:33:15 <kerio> diagonals, buttons+direction, button+diagonal
Aug 26 21:33:33 <ToJa92> I think it does but it's tricky to do diagonals
Aug 26 21:33:45 <ToJa92> button + button + direction works
Aug 26 21:33:49 <kerio> neat
Aug 26 21:33:51 <ToJa92> so diagonal + button should work
Aug 26 21:34:02 <kerio> meh, the n900's keyboard is weird
Aug 26 21:34:04 <ToJa92> but I don't think diagonal + button + button works
Aug 26 21:36:10 <Gadgetoid_n900> it uses w a d x, t u b m, l p up left
Aug 26 21:37:03 <Gadgetoid_n900> backlight kinda shines through the buttons too
Aug 26 21:38:52 <ToJa92> it shines through as long as the buttons are semi-opaque
Aug 26 21:39:05 <ToJa92> I have some black ones and they dont shine through
Aug 26 21:49:10 <crashanddie> GAN900: as any well respected geek, you've heard of a 3D printer?
Aug 26 21:49:23 <crashanddie> DocScrutinizer51, MohammadAG: you guys too, I take it.
Aug 26 21:49:31 <crashanddie> I'm actually thinking about buying one
Aug 26 21:49:51 <crashanddie> they're only like $750
Aug 26 21:49:58 <MohammadAG> o_O
Aug 26 21:50:05 <MohammadAG> gimme gimme gimme
Aug 26 21:50:35 <MohammadAG> how much is the "ink" though?
Aug 26 21:50:59 <crashanddie> $30 per kilo
Aug 26 21:51:10 <GAN900> crashanddie, yes.
Aug 26 21:51:18 <GAN900> crashanddie, to what end?
Aug 26 21:51:29 <crashanddie> i dunno
Aug 26 21:51:31 <crashanddie> just fun
Aug 26 21:52:08 <crashanddie> http://www.babelgum.com/4020782
Aug 26 21:53:23 <GAN900> Buy a lens instead
Aug 26 21:56:23 <crashanddie> ~ping
Aug 26 21:56:24 <infobot> ~pong
Aug 26 22:02:38 <kerio> GAN900: lol
Aug 26 22:06:02 <MNZ> Anyone know if SDL can use the n900's accelerometer for input?
Aug 26 22:06:28 <PerfDave> The TuxRacer / SuperTux package for N900 seems to work with tilting input..
Aug 26 22:16:16 <PolarFox> and there is that little program somewhere that translates accelerometer inputs to joystick movements..
Aug 26 22:22:07 <SkyscraperN900> hi all
Aug 26 22:22:16 <SkyscraperN900> mohammadag51 any news about ubuntu?
Aug 26 22:22:39 <SkyscraperN900> Mohammadag
Aug 26 22:22:41 <MohammadAG> back in jerusalem, so yes, should be up by tomorrow
Aug 26 22:22:51 <SkyscraperN900> yeeah
Aug 26 22:22:58 <SkyscraperN900> nice to hear!
Aug 26 22:23:06 <SkyscraperN900> already uploading?
Aug 26 22:23:41 <MohammadAG> starting in a bit, new image size should be about 500 megs or so
Aug 26 22:24:05 <SkyscraperN900> hm. is the server fast?
Aug 26 22:24:26 <MohammadAG> yeah
Aug 26 22:25:26 <SkyscraperN900> hm. i'll get up at 6:45 and i'll drive away 7:15... dont think that my n900 can leech that fast xD (only 1600bkps downstream)
Aug 26 22:28:08 <SkyscraperN900> hm. so i'll leech it next night i think... have to go to sleep now. thank you for that great news. gn8
Aug 26 23:14:58 <mgedmin> jacktheripper, I can reproduce the same sudo apt-get dist-upgrade error you saw
Aug 26 23:15:38 <mgedmin> I suspect it's libsdl-mixer1.2 from extras
Aug 26 23:15:58 <mgedmin> ah, no
Aug 26 23:16:17 <mgedmin> it's python-pygame
Aug 26 23:17:28 <mgedmin> hm, no, I can upgrade that one too
Aug 26 23:17:29 <mgedmin> weird
Aug 26 23:18:14 <mgedmin> there were three packages kept back: libsdl-mixer1.2, libsdl-ttf2.0-0 and python-pygame
Aug 26 23:18:31 <mgedmin> the first can be upgraded, but the upgrade removes mp-fremantle-generic-pr (and I don't want that)
Aug 26 23:18:39 <mgedmin> the second can be upgraded with some hiccoughing
Aug 26 23:19:23 <mgedmin> and the third just upgraded without any problems -- maybe it was kept back because of libsdl-ttf2.0-0?
Aug 26 23:24:40 <jacktheripper> hmmm. The error I get is about upstart
Aug 26 23:25:07 <jacktheripper> it depends on a lower version of busybox, and it still won't install
Aug 26 23:25:11 <jacktheripper> do you get the same thing ?
Aug 26 23:25:24 <MohammadAG> you apt-get dist-upgraded
Aug 26 23:25:39 <MohammadAG> I get that error too (upstart)
Aug 26 23:25:46 <jacktheripper> yes, I did
Aug 26 23:25:55 <MohammadAG> you're not supposed to ;)
Aug 26 23:26:04 <jacktheripper> there's no other way to install hildon-desktop, right ?
Aug 26 23:26:12 <MohammadAG> i told you to wait
Aug 26 23:26:19 <MohammadAG> and no, not without removing the metapackage
Aug 26 23:26:33 <MohammadAG> remote the SSU line, it's useless as I disabled the repo
Aug 26 23:26:42 <jacktheripper> ok
Aug 26 23:56:07 <bionet> I was wondering about power settings in maemo
Aug 27 00:13:04 <bionet> is there any one out there?
Aug 27 00:19:11 <Macer> crap
Aug 27 00:19:22 <Macer> now flash is outdated in m5
Aug 27 00:34:20 <DocScrutinizer> ~xyawn
Aug 27 00:34:22 <infobot> it has been said that xyawn is big coffee
Aug 27 00:34:30 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Aug 27 00:44:22 <MNZ> Is there a publicly available repo that holds the maemo kernel?
Aug 27 00:46:51 <babsher> i think that most of the kernel comes from the linux git repo
Aug 27 00:47:40 <MNZ> I know, but I want the maemo additions and patches all in one place.
Aug 27 00:49:14 <babsher> there is some stuff in the developer guide about the kernel
Aug 27 00:49:45 <babsher> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide
Aug 27 00:50:00 <babsher> they talk about compiling the kernel there
Aug 27 00:50:18 <MNZ> babsher, ooh thanks! shoulda looked there...
Aug 27 00:50:24 <babsher> ay
Aug 27 00:50:39 <babsher> do you know about the power interface in maemo
Aug 27 00:51:17 <MNZ> what do you mean by power interfaces exactly?
Aug 27 00:51:40 <babsher> well i have been looking at ways to save power by underclocking
Aug 27 00:51:48 <babsher> and turning things off
Aug 27 00:52:16 <babsher> i only need the bluetooth but I would like to use it for about 10 hours
Aug 27 00:52:42 <MNZ> well, there are some guides on saving battery and here's one I used http://wiki.maemo.org/How_To_Make_Your_Battery_Last_Longer
Aug 27 00:53:24 <babsher> ya i looked at that. hmmm
Aug 27 00:53:42 <babsher> i am installing the kernel-power module now
Aug 27 00:53:57 <DocScrutinizer> there's really not much use in underclocking
Aug 27 00:54:19 <DocScrutinizer> at least when your apps are written sanely
Aug 27 00:54:58 <DocScrutinizer> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#Software
Aug 27 00:55:03 <MNZ> As I understand it, the kernel is a tickless one, so yeah...
Aug 27 01:01:31 <babsher> well all iam doing is recording data off the bluetooth chip
Aug 27 01:01:48 <babsher> i dont really care about gui or wifi
Aug 27 01:01:52 <DocScrutinizer> >>Many users find that they have about 50% battery left after a full day's worth of usage if they only use 3G when really needed (and don't have the magnetic clasp problem).<<
Aug 27 01:01:56 <DocScrutinizer> BT is cheap
Aug 27 01:02:10 <babsher> well that is good to know
Aug 27 01:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> so what? 10h? should be absolutely no problem
Aug 27 01:02:33 <babsher> sweet. even without underclocking
Aug 27 01:03:15 <DocScrutinizer> esp without underclocking. Rush to idle is the motd
Aug 27 01:03:56 <babsher> ic
Aug 27 01:04:33 <babsher> but I am going to be using the blue tooth continuously
Aug 27 01:05:10 <root___> I have a question for anyone who's willing to help. All of my searches on the maemo forums, the wiki, and google have led me to dead ends.
Aug 27 01:05:22 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, then you *might* end up with CPU running @ 250 all the time. That's as good as it gets anyway, as you can't clock lower
Aug 27 01:05:33 <root___> Is it possible to mount the eMMC over usb without a working boot?
Aug 27 01:05:42 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Aug 27 01:06:16 <root___> DocScrutinizer: was that for me?
Aug 27 01:06:23 <DocScrutinizer> exporting of filesystems is done by a system daemon
Aug 27 01:06:46 <DocScrutinizer> no system -> no exported filesystems
Aug 27 01:06:56 <DocScrutinizer> hell, no filesystems at all :-P
Aug 27 01:07:36 <root___> sure. what then are the two devices that are attached in /dev?
Aug 27 01:07:51 <DocScrutinizer> ???
Aug 27 01:09:41 <root___> ... on a linux system. when I mount the n900, dmesg turns up two storage devices. any attempts to mount them turns up 'no medium found'
Aug 27 01:09:52 <DocScrutinizer> I for sure have a lot more than two devices in /dev
Aug 27 01:09:52 <root___> two *new*
Aug 27 01:09:54 <babsher> Doc. So what you are saying is that the kernel will scale the clock without me interfering
Aug 27 01:10:19 <DocScrutinizer> basexactly
Aug 27 01:10:25 <DocScrutinizer> babsher: ^^
Aug 27 01:12:00 <DocScrutinizer> root___: sorry, can't find my crystal ball. You'd need to disclose a bit more detail, so anybody can answer your question. E.G. the most detailed 2 lines from dmesg
Aug 27 01:12:24 <root___> lines are:
Aug 27 01:12:43 <babsher> Doc. Thanks for the help!
Aug 27 01:12:49 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Aug 27 01:13:08 <root___> scsi 5:0:0:0: Direct-Access   Nokia   N900    031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
Aug 27 01:13:34 <root___> and a similar one with 5:0:0:1:
Aug 27 01:13:42 <root___> followed by:
Aug 27 01:14:01 <root___> sd 5:0:0:0: [sda] ...
Aug 27 01:14:10 <root___> and sd 5:0:0:1: [sdb] ...
Aug 27 01:14:42 <DocScrutinizer> fine, your system mounted two new storage devices, called sda and sdb
Aug 27 01:15:23 <DocScrutinizer> probably eMMC and uSD
Aug 27 01:16:17 <root___> I agree. However, I'm trying to figure out if I can then mount those as readable filesystems
Aug 27 01:16:32 <root___> They are recognized devices, but not mounted
Aug 27 01:16:59 <DocScrutinizer> that might be related to automounter failing to corerectly detect them
Aug 27 01:17:29 <DocScrutinizer> there should be sda1 and sdb1 somewhere in your dev/
Aug 27 01:18:31 <root___> nope. that's part of the problem
Aug 27 01:19:59 <DocScrutinizer> mount -t auto /dev/sda /mnt/eMMC_fatfloppy
Aug 27 01:20:45 <root___> already tried. returned 'must specify the file type'
Aug 27 01:21:46 <DocScrutinizer> root___: please use pastebin to show the the full output generated during plugin, of dmesg or better `tail -f /var/log/messages` or whatever it's called on your system
Aug 27 01:23:40 <root___> [765804.276023] usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 19
Aug 27 01:23:40 <root___> [765804.493565] usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
Aug 27 01:23:40 <root___> [765804.544439] usb 1-2: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0105
Aug 27 01:23:40 <root___> [765804.544450] usb 1-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=5
Aug 27 01:23:40 <root___> [765804.544456] usb 1-2: Product: Nokia N900 (Update mode)
Aug 27 01:23:42 <root___> [765804.544460] usb 1-2: Manufacturer: Nokia
Aug 27 01:23:45 <root___> [765804.544464] usb 1-2: SerialNumber: 4D554D343931363834
Aug 27 01:23:47 <root___> [767659.419454] usb 1-2: USB disconnect, address 19
Aug 27 01:23:50 <root___> [767670.992155] usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 20
Aug 27 01:23:52 <root___> [767671.125340] usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 2 choices
Aug 27 01:23:55 <root___> [767671.139911] scsi7 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices
Aug 27 01:23:57 <root___> [767671.141496] usb-storage: device found at 20
Aug 27 01:24:00 <root___> [767671.141503] usb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning
Aug 27 01:24:02 <root___> [767671.141841] usb 1-2: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=01c7
Aug 27 01:24:05 <root___> [767671.141850] usb 1-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
Aug 27 01:24:08 <root___> [767671.141856] usb 1-2: Product: N900 (Storage Mode)
Aug 27 01:24:10 <root___> [767671.141860] usb 1-2: Manufacturer: Nokia
Aug 27 01:24:12 <root___> [767671.141864] usb 1-2: SerialNumber: 372041756775
Aug 27 01:24:15 <root___> [767676.140380] usb-storage: device scan complete
Aug 27 01:24:18 <root___> [767676.140974] scsi 7:0:0:0: Direct-Access     Nokia    N900              031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
Aug 27 01:24:20 <root___> [767676.141567] scsi 7:0:0:1: Direct-Access     Nokia    N900              031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
Aug 27 01:24:23 <root___> [767676.144303] sd 7:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disk
Aug 27 01:24:26 <root___> [767676.148217] sd 7:0:0:1: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk
Aug 27 01:25:16 <root___> DocScrutinizer: and thank you for helping.
Aug 27 01:25:32 <DocScrutinizer> yuck
Aug 27 01:25:39 <DocScrutinizer> ~pastebin
Aug 27 01:25:45 <infobot> [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude.
Aug 27 01:26:06 <root___> apologies. I will educate myself
Aug 27 01:30:02 <DocScrutinizer> anyway it looks quite ok, no idea if it should detect partitions ( like sda1), need to check as I've done this last time maybe 4 months ago
Aug 27 01:32:40 <asj> root___: if you mount them by hand does it work?
Aug 27 01:33:09 <asj> (not -t auto)
Aug 27 01:34:02 <root___> asj: I haven't been able to determine what fs (or other method) to use
Aug 27 01:34:13 <asj> this is an n900 right?
Aug 27 01:34:17 <root___> yes
Aug 27 01:34:27 <asj> vfat, check for partitions
Aug 27 01:34:51 <asj> (as root fdisk -l)
Aug 27 01:35:21 <e-yes> ~lis302dl
Aug 27 01:37:09 <root___> fdisk -l only turns up the local drives, and trying 'fdisk -l /dev/sda' or 'sdb' doesn't return anythign
Aug 27 01:37:18 <root___> s/gn/ng/
Aug 27 01:37:19 <infobot> root___ meant: fdisk -l only turns up the local drives, and trying 'fdisk -l /dev/sda' or 'sdb' doesn't return anything
Aug 27 01:38:20 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: ??
Aug 27 01:39:14 <DocScrutinizer> root___: try -t vfat
Aug 27 01:39:16 <asj> usb is local
Aug 27 01:39:23 <root___> also 'mount -t vfat ...' gives 'no medium found'
Aug 27 01:39:25 <e-yes> DocScrutinizer, ??:)
Aug 27 01:39:34 <asj> it should be sda1 I'm fairly sure no?
Aug 27 01:40:09 <DocScrutinizer> that's the problem asj. He says there isn't
Aug 27 01:40:30 <root___> there are no partitions listed for the sda and sdb devices
Aug 27 01:40:32 <asj> DocScrutinizer: then I would say full stop, something is busted.
Aug 27 01:40:39 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Aug 27 01:41:06 <asj> either system is whacked, or n900 is broken.  So, does the n900 boot/work have 27 gigs  on /home/MyDocs?
Aug 27 01:42:15 <root___> n900 shows 'nokia' boot screen, but no further.
Aug 27 01:42:21 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Aug 27 01:42:31 <root___> although--
Aug 27 01:42:50 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-08-27 03:04:38] <DocScrutinizer> exporting of filesystems is done by a system daemon
Aug 27 01:42:51 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-08-27 03:05:01] <DocScrutinizer> no system -> no exported filesystems
Aug 27 01:43:08 <DocScrutinizer> what part of this was unclear?
Aug 27 01:43:09 <root___> I got that.
Aug 27 01:43:10 <root___> thanks
Aug 27 01:44:15 <root___> I was under the impression that we were continuing the conversation with the understanding that I was attemping to mount without a complete boot
Aug 27 01:44:49 <root___> thanks for the help, and the time.
Aug 27 01:44:50 <DocScrutinizer> your N900 system is borked. reflash!
Aug 27 01:44:56 <root___> off to do so
Aug 27 01:46:55 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: infobot does't know about lid302 :-P
Aug 27 01:47:12 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: nevertheless I do
Aug 27 01:47:25 <DocScrutinizer> LIS302*
Aug 27 01:48:06 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: ECHAN?
Aug 27 01:49:08 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: ...as meego has a completely braindamaged lis3lv02d kernel driver, instead of the somewhat sane maemo borne lis302dl
Aug 27 01:49:43 <e-yes> i'm not wondering how lis302 was implemented for n900. only one phone, no prob with non-standard interface. i wonder why they do it for meego in the same way (!dev/input)
Aug 27 01:50:17 <e-yes> or meego intended only for n9?:)
Aug 27 01:50:38 <asj> DocScrutinizer: jesus, must remember half the people out there are below average
Aug 27 01:50:47 * asj bangs his head into a wall
Aug 27 01:50:53 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Aug 27 01:51:44 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: see my last line to you, above
Aug 27 01:52:53 <DocScrutinizer> http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel/nokia-n900-kernel/blobs/master/drivers/hwmon/lis3lv02d.c#line47  is braindamaged joystick driver. Compare/diff to http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c
Aug 27 01:54:23 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: /dev/input is a bit of... err, underfeatured, for LIS302
Aug 27 01:59:01 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: you could use /dev/input_<lis302> if you're *really* interested in raw data from lis302 chip, at a rate of either 100 or 400 per second. Or you could have a lib that manages lis302 sysnodes/chip in a smart way, and have a dev/input device created by that lib, which only reports more filtered events, like e.g "up|down|left|right|front|rear" only if the device changed main orientation
Aug 27 01:59:48 <e-yes> didn't knew about lis3lv02d, my bad, i thought they going to use curent lis302dl with meego too
Aug 27 02:00:14 <DocScrutinizer> I hope they will consider doing that
Aug 27 02:00:43 <DocScrutinizer> lis3lv02d looks to me like wiimote os similar crap
Aug 27 02:00:51 <DocScrutinizer> or*
Aug 27 02:00:52 <e-yes> i have problems with current driver, reading coords in two processes (using dup
Aug 27 02:01:15 <e-yes> ed descriptor) cause weird behaviors
Aug 27 02:01:54 <DocScrutinizer> honestly, lis3lv02d is unusable for N900
Aug 27 02:06:52 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: not to state the nokia lis302dl driver is really great. It as well has flaws: it doesn't put highpass to purpose (http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c#164) and so configures lis302 chip for one particular situation only, which is "flat on table, screen heading up" (http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c#187)
Aug 27 02:09:40 <e-yes> DocScrutinizer, btw, what you think about lis302 driver from OpenMoko?
Aug 27 02:09:51 <DocScrutinizer> this concept obviously fails on as simple a changed situation as N900 placed on stand
Aug 27 02:10:06 <DocScrutinizer> e-yes: I have to admit I never looked into it
Aug 27 02:12:57 <DocScrutinizer> I suggested to devels same I did here: use highpass, set threshold for matching the smallest relative movement you want to get notice for. Then switch chip config from relative (with highpass) to absolute (hp disabled) for reading out absolute values for all three axis when you get IRQ indicating there's been a change large enough to matter
Aug 27 02:15:54 <e-yes> oh, i see my knowledge about lis302 is far behind yours
Aug 27 02:17:25 <DocScrutinizer> iirc on OM they changed the device node from absolute to relative reporting some point in time. But that hadn't any impact on kernel driver still doing sort of polling (*BAD*!) from lis302 chip, and then just calculating the "relative" properties by comparing new x|y|z vlaue tuple to last one and only output the changed values - yuck
Aug 27 02:17:51 <DocScrutinizer> but maybe I'm totally wrong on that, and this was nly a dream I had 18 months ago
Aug 27 02:21:10 <DocScrutinizer> isn't it funny, when somebody complains about high CPU load or sluggishness, you really have to ask "have you placed your N900 on a really flat surface? screen pointing up?"
Aug 27 02:39:37 <rm_you> johnx: lol
Aug 27 02:43:12 <johnx> hey rm_you
Aug 27 02:53:29 <luke-jr> wtf Maemo
Aug 27 02:53:43 <luke-jr> it just disconnected my call so it could switch from GPRS to 802.11
Aug 27 02:59:47 <DocScrutinizer51> wut? lol
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 27 02:59:57 2010