**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 29 02:59:57 2010 Aug 29 03:00:24 lol Aug 29 03:00:27 xchat wfm Aug 29 03:00:49 Quassel ftw Aug 29 03:32:41 ok Aug 29 03:32:46 i am a little confused with this facebrick thing Aug 29 03:32:49 does it actually work? Aug 29 03:33:41 i keep getting unauthorized source ip address or some crap Aug 29 03:41:48 well. another letdown. was hoping there was a fb client but this doesn't seem to work Aug 29 03:43:49 i'm curious if m5 is actually moving stuff into normal repos anymore or is it all staying in dev? Aug 29 04:05:05 guess facebrick is broken. blah. Aug 29 04:22:29 does this facebook widget even update? Aug 29 04:23:01 maybe i shouldn't have made so much fun of the guy who was talking about nokia's timeline when he was talking about social networking :) Aug 29 04:23:17 because right now this n900 totally blows for fb Aug 29 04:24:44 ok let me leave it alone for an hour or so and see if this crapget with no options can update Aug 29 04:27:04 its a bit of a battery hog anyway, i turn on email notifications and check it when i use it Aug 29 04:27:59 well. i don't think it's updating Aug 29 04:28:12 and facebrick won't connect to fb and gives unauthorized source ip errors Aug 29 04:28:17 can't fidn a solution to that one either Aug 29 04:29:08 err, wasnt facebrick still waiting to be authorized by the facebook developers? Aug 29 04:29:40 hell if i know. some people say they were using it but evidently not? Aug 29 04:31:42 so in order to get a widget i need to create an ovi store acct :) Aug 29 04:31:55 * Macer checks to see if tmob can send him a galaxy-s Aug 29 04:32:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49216 Aug 29 04:34:02 i was looking there Aug 29 04:34:11 http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:4dc3eb30b1706bbe938a07a9c65b46e8/ Aug 29 04:35:20 wow. now that looks nice Aug 29 04:36:08 but that still doesn't explain why facebrick doesn't seem to be working Aug 29 04:36:18 i'm still reading that first thread seeing if i missed something Aug 29 04:37:23 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49216&page=62 Aug 29 04:38:11 "Error loading newsfeeds: 5 Unauthorized source IP Address" Aug 29 04:52:04 ok. i give up. :) Aug 29 04:52:30 this fb widget isn't updating Aug 29 04:52:40 there is no fb client that seems to work Aug 29 04:52:54 besides the browser? Aug 29 04:53:04 that works like shit too over 3G ;) Aug 29 04:53:22 well, Facebook is crap. Aug 29 04:53:24 what do you expect? Aug 29 04:53:32 well. android clients work ;) Aug 29 04:53:38 as do the widgets Aug 29 04:53:41 heh Aug 29 04:54:41 regardless of if it's crap or not. there are millions of people on it and nokia (like always?) will be a year late and a buck short Aug 29 04:54:55 by the time meego gets anywhere android will have about what? 3 years on it? Aug 29 04:55:33 while they try to stop-gap their dwindling market share with age old symbian.. now with qt Aug 29 04:56:02 MeeGo doesn't compete with Android Aug 29 04:56:11 obviously Aug 29 04:56:59 nokia should just suck it up and just jump on the android bandwagon so they can sell some phones :) Aug 29 05:10:24 not Aug 29 05:10:42 you think android sells more phones than nokia? Aug 29 05:15:08 hahaha Aug 29 05:19:28 not yet ;) Aug 29 05:19:51 all i can do is stare at a graph and watch the nokia line steadily decline Aug 29 05:20:11 anyways. on a brighter note. the fb pic sharing works like a champ Aug 29 05:20:39 and there is one thing that the n900 can do that i love. the video chatting over skype and gtalk :) Aug 29 05:40:29 Macer: apparently the Skype part only works with Windows Aug 29 05:49:26 skype can do audio to macs and linux Aug 29 05:49:33 video only works with Windows, apparently Aug 29 05:49:37 microlith: but audio is useless Aug 29 05:49:48 audio is useless? Aug 29 05:49:49 Maemo can do audio to anything Aug 29 05:49:50 maybe if you're deaf Aug 29 05:49:53 no need for skype crap Aug 29 05:50:08 worked great for me when I was in Japan Aug 29 05:50:18 much better than paying $2/min Aug 29 06:55:51 Aug 29 07:01:48 RST38h: you forgot to close your tag there Aug 29 07:02:21 rtyler: or it's just a really long yawn. Aug 29 07:32:21 morning folks! Aug 29 07:32:28 ~botsnack Aug 29 07:32:28 MNZ: aw, gee Aug 29 07:43:41 Heya guys. Is it possible to somehow get the list of online contacts on the n900? I am trying to create a notification system for when somebody logs in to IMs (Skype etc) Aug 29 08:04:49 marcus_, the whole IM system in maemo is based on telepathy (the software, not actual telepathy..), so go look at their api Aug 29 08:05:29 I will look at it, thanks! Aug 29 08:05:32 marcus_, http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ there probably is some way to subscribe to events Aug 29 08:05:54 microlith: is there seriously a reason for phone companies to charge that much anymore? :) Aug 29 08:06:06 i mean are they still paying for those copper cables they laid out like 100 years ago? Aug 29 08:06:56 maintenance still costs. Aug 29 08:07:17 I have a feeling data plans are so costly only because if they are not then everyone would use IM and voip instead of actually making calls.... Aug 29 08:07:17 SwedeMike: yeah i suppose but costs $2/min? :) Aug 29 08:07:39 people do use IM and voip instead of actualy making calls heh Aug 29 08:07:48 MNZ: how much are you paying? It varies a lot from market to market. Aug 29 08:07:50 i know i got my mins down to the least i could and just use my skype calling Aug 29 08:08:46 you guys are lucky.... out here (egypt) data plans are pretty costly Aug 29 08:09:12 MNZ: that's most likely a political/regulatory problem than anything else. Aug 29 08:09:16 MNZ: because the internet is run by satan and us godless pigs are in line with the falling star Aug 29 08:09:34 believe it or not, DSL is pretty well priced Aug 29 08:09:40 nothing political, it's just business Aug 29 08:09:54 well. egypt isn't what it used to be :) Aug 29 08:35:41 Macer: $2/min?? I'd prefer Thuraya then, or Iridium, or Inmarsat. Probably all of those offer better plans Aug 29 08:36:00 inmarsat is $7/min Aug 29 08:36:13 duh really? Aug 29 08:36:40 thought they'd compete with the ~1$ of the other two Aug 29 08:36:54 maybe things changed, dunno Aug 29 08:38:00 but according to the pattern, rules or as we call them laws of nature Aug 29 08:40:29 hey guys Aug 29 08:40:53 could anyone help me with a strange error message? Aug 29 08:40:57 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=800956#post800956 Aug 29 08:42:57 Thuraya ECO-SIM ~0.50EUR/min aiui Aug 29 08:42:59 you should try to download the package manually and then using dpkg to install it. That way you get more specific error msg Aug 29 08:44:07 Dassu: Unpacking replacement sticky-notes ... Errors were encountered while processing: /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/qt4-homescreen-loader_4.6.2~git20100421-0maemo1_armel.deb Aug 29 08:44:21 Dassu: so the error is not even with Sticky Notes... Aug 29 08:46:27 Venemo, remove pelota widget Aug 29 08:46:38 if you have it installed Aug 29 08:46:53 th3hate: it is not my error message Aug 29 08:47:08 th3hate: I'm just a dev trying to help a user Aug 29 08:47:21 th3hate: why pelota widget? what is it? Aug 29 08:51:31 Venemo, it uses a different version of qt4-homescreen-loader Aug 29 08:51:54 so it conflicts with sticky notes Aug 29 08:53:18 th3hate: what version? There is only one, as far as I can tell Aug 29 08:53:27 th3hate: http://maemo.org/packages/view/qt4-homescreen-loader/ Aug 29 08:53:32 RST38h: http://www.teltarif.de/i/sat-telefon.html?page=6 Aug 29 08:53:47 the table isn't too much German ;-) Aug 29 09:23:21 Venemo: You don't need to have use vdso32=0 on the kernel command line, there is is this nice kernel module availible witch does this while linux is running: Makefile http://pastebin.com/HXVJ3uXB vdso32_disable.c http://pastebin.com/pSvtf0m9 Aug 29 09:28:00 tobis87: thanks! :) Aug 29 09:29:02 tobis87: hmmm. Aug 29 09:29:05 #ifndef CONFIG_X86_64 #error "Don't even try to compile me.. use /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled instead" #endif Aug 29 09:29:34 didn't you say that you run Fedora 13 x86_64? Aug 29 09:29:46 if NOT defined Aug 29 09:30:15 tobis87: aah... okay :) Aug 29 09:30:35 tobis87: and why is this better than editing the kernel line? Aug 29 09:30:53 just make sure that you have System.map- in /boot Aug 29 09:31:09 tobis87: I guess that I would have to recompile this for every new kernel update Aug 29 09:31:17 i don't know how it is called in fedora, Aug 29 09:32:04 yes, as every kernel module... i have a costum kernel, so i don't know... but you can add it to dkms Aug 29 09:33:14 Vdso -> http://www.trilithium.com/johan/2005/08/linux-gate/ Aug 29 09:34:42 i would only disable it, if I would run scratchbox Aug 29 09:46:40 i am considering buying nika n9000 and confused wether nokia is going to supoort maemo and also since andoird seems to be more prevalent Aug 29 09:46:49 so, which should be better maemo or android? Aug 29 09:47:14 senge: that's very subjective. Aug 29 09:47:37 senge: n900 does things android doesn't, and the other way around. Aug 29 09:47:46 and you're asking in a maemo biased channel, there's a very high chance people would suggest maemo over android Aug 29 09:48:19 SwedeMike: well, i am just a linux geek and not much into games but i would like to use many applications!! Aug 29 09:48:36 senge: nokia won't switch to android if that's what you ask :) Aug 29 09:48:38 psycho_oreos: hehehe!! :) Aug 29 09:48:43 senge: what will be relevant is meego anyway Aug 29 09:48:51 if hacking is your thing maemo is a little more open than android Aug 29 09:48:55 senge: well, if you want a linux based phone where you can actually use the linux, then n900 is the right choice. Aug 29 09:49:15 Corsac: no, i jusy want to make sure i get the best fr=or my money since nokia n900 and htc wildfire have a lot of price difference!! Aug 29 09:49:36 hi whether they are big delays in setting up a public key in the garage? I try to send my first program and "Permision denied": / Aug 29 09:49:47 the n900 is quite cheap nowadays, almost half price from launch. Aug 29 09:49:53 saw it for 330EUR the other day Aug 29 09:49:54 I wouldnt recommend buying the n900 right now, just wait for n9 (or so) Aug 29 09:49:56 I paid 600 for it. Aug 29 09:50:10 I paid it 200€ with 1y contract Aug 29 09:50:30 I don't do contracts, they're just payment plans. Aug 29 09:50:38 hardware spec you can't compare n900 over wildfire, n900 has got more RAM (albeit as swap) for instance and the ARM cpu can be overclocked Aug 29 09:50:51 ohh. N9 seems interesting. didnt know about this one!! Aug 29 09:50:57 and it comes with 32GB as standard Aug 29 09:51:16 senge: well, be prepared to wait for few months though Aug 29 09:51:16 N9 isn't even out yet Aug 29 09:51:22 psycho_oreos: thr is around 200$ difference between the two Aug 29 09:51:39 psycho_oreos: ahh yes gud point . 32 GB Aug 29 09:51:40 if it's announced at meego conference like n900 was at maemo summit, it could be available around christmas Aug 29 09:51:51 senge: with maemo you have root access, and you are able to even compile your own kernel modules and use them. Aug 29 09:51:53 senge, and meego will be based on woeful rpm base, unlike maemo's aging deb base Aug 29 09:53:29 psycho_oreos: thanks guys!! i think i can wait till christmas!! :) Aug 29 09:53:48 senge: hardware crypto acceleration, is the stuff i currently working on... encryption on a mobile device! just don't try to execpt much use as a telephone from it, it was not designed to be one... Aug 29 09:53:57 psycho_oreos, how aging rpm is better than aging deb? Aug 29 09:54:13 rpm ftw Aug 29 09:54:25 senge, I still highly back n900 it maybe old and soon outdated but it is still very hacker friendly compared to android Aug 29 09:54:43 slonopotamus, you misread me I prefer deb over rpm Aug 29 09:54:50 psycho_oreos: ok!! so, its really geeky! ;) :) Aug 29 09:55:04 and anyways it will take ages to reach india! :D Aug 29 09:55:26 senge, try framebuffer console splash on boot which I bet no android can do without some third party ROM Aug 29 09:55:34 (both suck, actually) Aug 29 09:55:39 :P Aug 29 09:55:39 lol! n9000 was releassed two months ago!! Aug 29 09:55:56 senge, then you can also install droid, install win95, install gentoo, install meego Aug 29 09:56:34 psycho_oreos: awesome!! i think i will try to get nokia n9000 Aug 29 09:56:42 slonopotamus, mm both suck without a valid argument, nice way to base your bias Aug 29 09:56:54 since it would anyways be cheaper and n9 would be way too expensive for a sutdent like me!! Aug 29 09:57:02 I've been browsing trough Maemo 5 gconfigs and found one very useful setting there: /apps/osso/xterm/encoding lets you set the encoding of your xterminal, which is useful for people who have shell account on a remote server that has locale other than UTF-8. For example a frind of mine can now irc and use scandinavic letters. :) Aug 29 09:57:11 psycho_oreos: g2g!! i'll ping u!! ;) :D thanks !! Aug 29 09:57:15 senge, and if you're into wireless pentesting, mameo has fully supported wireless chipset that allows you to do native rfmon capability Aug 29 09:57:48 There's also a setting to add more buttons to lower bar. It it possible to add alt key there? Aug 29 09:58:08 Zucca, in 2010 you still have encoding other than UTF-8? no wai. Aug 29 09:58:38 psycho_oreos, both are overcomplicated from packager POV Aug 29 09:59:12 slonopotamus, and you would prefer what? gentoo/arch/slackware method? Aug 29 09:59:19 tarballs? Aug 29 10:00:05 psycho_oreos, gentoo ebuilds are nice, yep :) Aug 29 10:00:52 slonopotamus, maybe they are nice but too bad you're not going to get that in a phone/internet tablet Aug 29 10:01:11 psycho_oreos, i do have Aug 29 10:01:31 slonopotamus: No. I don't have. Few frieds of mine have. They have irc service where they connect via ssh. After login and irc session (irssi) is automatically opened/resumed. We tried to set environment there, but all shell commands are unavailable (tried with /exec from irssi). So the only way was to change maemo terminal's encoding. Aug 29 10:01:54 slonopotamus, ok apart from gentoo on n8x0 project which is still beside the point that it lacks functionality with lots of mameo binaries Aug 29 10:02:10 s/mameo/maemo/ Aug 29 10:02:11 psycho_oreos meant: slonopotamus, ok apart from gentoo on n8x0 project which is still beside the point that it lacks functionality with lots of maemo binaries Aug 29 10:02:30 psycho_oreos, 'lots of maemo binaries'? only firmwares Aug 29 10:02:52 the thing is that nokia didn't roll out maemo on gentoo as standard Aug 29 10:03:21 slonopotamus, firmwares and proprietary drivers, bet you haven't got phone functionality yet Aug 29 10:03:44 hehe Aug 29 10:03:46 psycho_oreos, n8x0 doesn't have phone hw Aug 29 10:04:24 slonopotamus, and if you haven't been following what I said, I was referring to n900, but alas it sounds like gentoo on n900 would either be no dice or still lacks functionality Aug 29 10:05:00 which only means that nokia 'open' strategy ain't actually open Aug 29 10:05:05 someone here has it but dont know if he got all the fuctionality Aug 29 10:05:33 because if it was, it would be trivial to package stuff into any distro you like Aug 29 10:05:43 yep Aug 29 10:05:45 slonopotamus: correct, it's not all open. Aug 29 10:05:54 nokia has their own internal issues/conflicts in ways of trying to deal with the word `open' but comparing that to say android its alot better Aug 29 10:05:57 Zucca: if you're using a codepage, you're doing it wrong Aug 29 10:06:02 very, very wrong Aug 29 10:06:59 i know i just joined and have no context, but seriously, android doesn't get it Aug 29 10:07:05 whatever Aug 29 10:07:08 especially the "no duplication of effort" thing Aug 29 10:07:10 :) Aug 29 10:07:14 * slonopotamus returns to his code Aug 29 10:07:27 android is for poor hipsters Aug 29 10:07:53 alas there was an Indian student that came in here asking to compare Nokia N900 and HTC Wildfire Aug 29 10:08:21 as opposed to the iphone that's for rich hipsters Aug 29 10:08:21 told him to get n900, n9 isn't even out yet and n900 for now is quite hacker-friendly Aug 29 10:08:49 lol iphail Aug 29 10:08:50 the n900 is the phone for nerds Aug 29 10:09:07 psycho_oreos: why do you think he was the hacker type? Aug 29 10:09:11 apple is for those who don't want to know what their computer is doing Aug 29 10:09:30 Corsac, I didn't think he was, I just told him that n900 is more hacker-friendly Aug 29 10:09:31 "ooh android is so open, here, i can root it and have a terminal" Aug 29 10:09:48 what about cyanogen stuff? Aug 29 10:09:56 the iphone can do that too, but it's a third-party modification ffs Aug 29 10:10:02 might not be the rightest chan to ask though :) Aug 29 10:10:06 cyanogen is an addon which still has its own limitations Aug 29 10:10:25 an “addon”? Aug 29 10:10:28 i mean, the n900 has a system-wide kbd shortcut to launch osso-xterm Aug 29 10:10:39 and rooting iphail will soon be verbotten, thank apple for counteracting DMAA Aug 29 10:10:39 isn't it a community rebuild of android sources? Aug 29 10:10:54 psycho_oreos: huh? Aug 29 10:11:04 kerio: there is a keyboard shortcut for xterm? Aug 29 10:11:05 they don't want you to jailbreak Aug 29 10:11:15 you have the device in your hand Aug 29 10:11:27 gee, i wonder who will win Aug 29 10:11:29 well I don't know and I don't really care about android, for what I need, n900 despite its obvious downfalls still outweighs better than its competitors Aug 29 10:11:47 BCMM: ctrl+shift+x Aug 29 10:11:47 kerio, apparently they will track you down if you have jailbroken iphone soon Aug 29 10:12:03 kerio: cool; is there a list of system-wide shortcuts somewhere? Aug 29 10:12:20 psycho_oreos: yeah, and there was a rodent packing chocolate Aug 29 10:12:49 kerio, meaning its a whole bunch of FUD? well that's what media is saying Aug 29 10:13:03 but knowing apple, you can be sure they are secretive in their own ways Aug 29 10:13:04 of course it's fud ._. Aug 29 10:13:19 are you really believing the media? Aug 29 10:13:40 no I just point and laugh at iphail users/owners Aug 29 10:13:41 so far the iphone 4 is jailbreakable Aug 29 10:14:08 media is just to make my day fly faster with something to point and laugh about Aug 29 10:14:14 well, duh Aug 29 10:15:11 i'm just saying that android is not that different Aug 29 10:15:21 you're just gargling on a different cock Aug 29 10:15:48 the iphone 4 jailbreak is terrifying, since it uses a code execution vulnerability in PDF viewer Aug 29 10:15:56 and I'm sure the media wasn't wrong about apple stripping a 3rd party developer's rights just because he wrote a program better than apple's own podcasting client no? I'm sure the dev made a big fuss on his blog Aug 29 10:16:10 psycho_oreos: oh, sure, that's the app store Aug 29 10:16:12 apparently it is Aug 29 10:16:25 (and i thought the whole reason for restricting you to a whitelist of applications was to ensure good quality) Aug 29 10:16:33 i point and laugh at the developers accepting their contract Aug 29 10:16:39 (well, no i didn't, but hey) Aug 29 10:16:58 even if android runs on linux kernel, it still prevents you from doing things of your own desire (such as dual/multibooting, only nexus one I heard can do it) Aug 29 10:17:17 kerio: the amazing bit is paying to develop the stuff that makes people use their platform Aug 29 10:17:29 they have every right to provide you with the applications they want Aug 29 10:17:37 that's apple for you, apparently there were fans behind that 3rd party app which was better decided to jailbreak their iphone just to install it Aug 29 10:17:52 you, on the other hand, have every right to jailbreak it and install other stuff Aug 29 10:18:00 or you know, buy a n900 Aug 29 10:18:03 kerio: i mean, a developer having to pay to write apps, when those apps are what make the platform Aug 29 10:18:06 what bother me the most about android is the link to google accounts and stuff like that Aug 29 10:18:16 kerio: I couldn't agree with you more Aug 29 10:18:35 more or less applies to google android, want shell? you still need to jailbreak it Aug 29 10:18:35 kerio: i used to think apple had this straight in their head, since, unlike MS, they didn't charge extra for their desktop developement environment Aug 29 10:19:23 xcode is fucking epic, or so i've been told Aug 29 10:20:49 kerio: in a good way? Aug 29 10:21:18 kerio: xcode is Apple's official IDE, right? the equivalent of Visual Studio? Aug 29 10:21:30 yeah Aug 29 10:21:37 in a good way Aug 29 10:21:44 it's powerful Aug 29 10:23:27 i haven't touched visual studio since having to write VB6 for school assignments, but i imagine it must be completely amazing in comparison Aug 29 10:24:20 VS has a terrible text editor, which is always a bad start Aug 29 10:25:30 Visual Studio is a very convenient IDE Aug 29 10:25:53 if you haven't used it since more than 10 years, how can you tell it has a "terrible text editor" ? Aug 29 10:27:09 * slonopotamus used msvc on wednesday. it has a terrible text editor, really. Aug 29 10:27:29 s/vc/vs/ Aug 29 10:27:55 slonopotamus: I dunno abut vc Aug 29 10:28:04 slonopotamus: the C# editor is very good to use Aug 29 10:28:15 msvc isn't a text editor, really Aug 29 10:28:19 want a text editor? Open notepad Aug 29 10:28:25 or word Aug 29 10:28:37 but it has an editor, where you input text Aug 29 10:28:52 no, you input code Aug 29 10:28:52 Venemo: ok, it did then, by my standards Aug 29 10:29:00 :) Aug 29 10:29:02 Venemo, it even doesn't have error highlighting for c++. Aug 29 10:29:21 crashanddie: you edit plaintext files Aug 29 10:29:44 crashanddie: vim and emacs are text editors, and both are used mostly for inputting code Aug 29 10:30:02 crashanddie, notepad is crap. no regex search. Aug 29 10:30:17 notepad is crap, it doesn't support newlines properly Aug 29 10:30:20 slonopotamus: notepad++ then Aug 29 10:30:59 slonopotamus: for C++ I use Qt Creator :) Aug 29 10:31:29 vim for C++ Aug 29 10:31:30 i mostly use katepart-based things Aug 29 10:31:35 well, vim for anything, really. Aug 29 10:31:51 Venemo, can it import vcproj files? i got ~200 of them here and converting them manually is not an option Aug 29 10:32:14 KDE has really got it right, IMHO - make one really good text editing component that can be embedded in various applications that need text editing Aug 29 10:32:38 * MohammadAG likes gedit Aug 29 10:33:50 such that the IDE, the basic and advanced text editors and the LaTeX IDE all work the same way Aug 29 10:33:56 MohammadAG, how's hildon going? :) Aug 29 10:34:23 hildony Aug 29 10:35:13 MohammadAG: booo Aug 29 10:35:37 * MohammadAG slaps DocScrutinizer, hey Aug 29 10:36:07 * DocScrutinizer 's too stupid to use rsync :-o Aug 29 10:37:44 rsync --partial --progress --rsh=ssh is what I use Aug 29 10:38:16 --rsh=ssh not an option as the port is non-standard (23) Aug 29 10:38:19 err 22 Aug 29 10:39:21 rsync uses SSH by default Aug 29 10:39:23 use --rsh="ssh -p 42" ? Aug 29 10:39:25 i use alias rsync='rsync -r -t -p -o -g -x -v --progress -u -l -H --numeric-ids' in .bashrc Aug 29 10:39:28 -rsh="ssh -pxxxx" Aug 29 10:39:37 simples Aug 29 10:39:52 I installed scratchbox on unbuntu 10.04 today, and I didn't need to add the vm.mmap_min_addr = 0 to sysctl.conf Aug 29 10:40:07 marick kernel? Aug 29 10:40:12 meverick* Aug 29 10:40:35 -e "ssh -p xxxx" but anyway it delivers reasonable file list (with -v) but doesn't download a single byte of payload Aug 29 10:40:45 MohammadAG: did the thumb activation hack work btw? Aug 29 10:40:47 like, the errata Aug 29 10:40:53 DocScrutinizer, --port=PORT specify double-colon alternate port number Aug 29 10:41:04 acts like the local machine already had all the files up to date Aug 29 10:41:14 Stskeeps, I got problems with dpkg, maemo crashed a bit, but I could chroot into 10.04 lucid Aug 29 10:41:28 ah Aug 29 10:41:44 but afaik, the kernel I used didn't have the patch you linked me to Aug 29 10:41:49 still got a link for it? Aug 29 10:43:00 (rsync) prolly a problem with symlinks or server rsync on remote machine, as identical cmd worked on another machine Aug 29 10:43:56 using scp now, will cope with that shit later, when transmission stalls and I need a way to resume :-S Aug 29 10:44:22 * MohammadAG pokes Stskeeps Aug 29 10:44:42 DocScrutinizer: -l, --links copy symlinks as symlinks -H, --hard-links preserve hard links -x, --one-file-system don’t cross filesystem boundaries Aug 29 10:44:59 nvm, found it in logs :) Aug 29 10:45:08 I don't want any of these Aug 29 10:46:42 but didn't you wrote "prolly a problem with symlinks"? Aug 29 10:52:45 MohammadAG: (alternate port number) that's alternate port for rsyncd which doesn't apply here the cmd still using >>opening connection using: ssh -l jr bla.cloudy.de rsync --server --sender -vv foo...bar... Aug 29 10:54:22 tobis87: maybe I'm wrong with the symlink part, as it correctly lists the files, even when they are symlinks on the remote machine in fact. Anyway the remote symlinks would be rather stale on my local machine Aug 29 10:55:12 you could also use sshfs to mount it and try rsync again? maybe a problem with ssh Aug 29 10:55:31 scp works like a charm Aug 29 10:55:50 sftp also works by now Aug 29 10:59:46 maybe a permission problem? Aug 29 10:59:58 total: matches=0 hash_hits=0 false_alarms=0 data=0 Aug 29 11:00:00 sent 20 bytes received 120749 bytes 18579.85 bytes/sec Aug 29 11:00:01 total size is 14146715468 speedup is 117138.63 Aug 29 11:00:23 after listing some 10k files Aug 29 11:00:32 Hey fellow maemo'ers Aug 29 11:00:42 you're full command? Aug 29 11:00:46 I can't seem to make a skype video call Aug 29 11:00:51 -rwxrwSrwt 5172514 2009/02/06 05:40:49 willich/Unknown Artist - Unknown Album/21 - Unknown Artist - Track 21.mp3 Aug 29 11:01:08 I can't find the option to skype video call my contacts Aug 29 11:01:20 any ideas? Aug 29 11:01:20 have you setup your skype acct details? Aug 29 11:01:46 Yep. I can make and recieve skype calls and instant messages. Aug 29 11:01:58 the receiver has to have a webcam Aug 29 11:02:06 Ahhhhhhh! Aug 29 11:02:29 and version +4 of skype afaik Aug 29 11:02:35 skype for linux works too I think Aug 29 11:02:47 so just to confirm... its not because of kernel-power Aug 29 11:02:52 technomike_phone: afaik video calls work to windoze skype far ends only, and capability to do video shows up in skype after call established, by button 'video' enabled (talking outa my ass as I never use skype at all) Aug 29 11:02:55 no lol Aug 29 11:03:18 there should be a Skype Video Call option DocScrutinizer Aug 29 11:03:22 Hahaha :D Aug 29 11:03:33 I thought so MohammadAG Aug 29 11:03:40 the cam isn't the brightest thing I've seen though Aug 29 11:03:44 I have seen the option before Aug 29 11:03:47 and I usually talk at night Aug 29 11:03:56 agreed. whilst using the mirror app Aug 29 11:04:00 permission should be correct, but i suspect the remote folder name could be wrong... i would really try sshfs, just to make sure it is not a rsync problem... btw, rsync over nfs does work... but it is dead slow Aug 29 11:04:00 I found it dark Aug 29 11:04:23 If we had options to adjust the camera driver options Aug 29 11:04:34 to adjust brightness contrast etc Aug 29 11:04:38 then its good Aug 29 11:05:16 I think the darkness is because its under the dark faceplace on the n900 Aug 29 11:05:26 a question from someone who has a n810 but doesn't have a n900..... Aug 29 11:05:33 how is the n900 like as a phone? Aug 29 11:05:45 the "dark faceplate" is clear Aug 29 11:05:57 nid0 ah my mistake then Aug 29 11:06:14 EdLin: depends on exactly what your standards are for a phone Aug 29 11:06:22 Agreed Aug 29 11:06:30 technomike_phone, it's either the drive or the cam itself Aug 29 11:06:34 driver Aug 29 11:06:37 Yeah Aug 29 11:06:38 it makes and receives cellular calls that lets you talk to other people, while mobile, who are also using cellular phones Aug 29 11:06:40 so for me, its fine. Aug 29 11:07:01 nid0: I know it has good internet stuff, and is very open, but I'm wondering if it is reliable in the phone department for making and answering. That's all. Aug 29 11:07:02 other people however whine that its a shit phone because it cant do bullshit rarely-used stuff like per-contact ringtones. Aug 29 11:07:07 tobis87: Aug 29 11:07:09 opening connection using: ssh -p 2345 -l jr blah.cludy.de rsync --server --sender -vvlogDtprze.iLs . mp3/ Aug 29 11:07:10 receiving file list ... Aug 29 11:07:12 done Aug 29 11:07:13 delta-transmission enabled Aug 29 11:07:15 drwxrwxrwx 0 2010/08/14 10:39:42 . Aug 29 11:07:16 -rwxrwSrwt 2205118 2007/01/24 19:49:52 (Soundtrack) - Die Hard 3 - When Johnny Comes Marching Home (Original).mp3 Aug 29 11:07:30 nid0: I don't care about per-contact ringtones. Aug 29 11:07:56 if you want a phone that can make and receive phone calls, the n900 is about as excellent as almost any other mobile that's ever been made :) Aug 29 11:08:14 tobis87: then ends with just >>total: matches=0 hash_hits=0 false_alarms=0 data=0 Aug 29 11:08:27 It has no 3g video calls / mms picture message support / starhash operator code support (without installing extra app) / i think thats it Aug 29 11:08:29 nid0: I'm just asking because some smartphones aren't too good at that. e.g. WinMo. :) Aug 29 11:08:37 just things to bear in mind Aug 29 11:08:40 :) Aug 29 11:08:58 tbh winmo makes and receives perfectly good phone calls as well, winmo gets asstons more stick than it even remotely deserves Aug 29 11:09:29 technomike_phone: well, I have a friend who's fond of texting me mms messages. What'll happen if he does that and it can't recieve them, an error? Aug 29 11:09:30 one annoying thing I have hit a couple of times making calls with n900 is that the volume key allows muting even while making a phonecall (which makes no sense whatsoever), any other nokia phone I have had doesn't Aug 29 11:09:50 hahahaa Aug 29 11:09:52 SAME Aug 29 11:09:54 here Aug 29 11:09:57 EdLin, for mms support youll need to install fmms, otherwise what happens depends on your carrier Aug 29 11:10:17 T-Mobile USA is my carrier.... Aug 29 11:10:18 normally if your device cant receive an mms and you get sent one, your carrier will just send you an sms with a link to a web portal where you can view the original mms Aug 29 11:10:22 DocScrutinizer: what ends, over sshfs? Aug 29 11:10:37 rsync Aug 29 11:11:17 rsync -avvz -e "ssh -p 22345" jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ Aug 29 11:11:29 nid0: how well does fmms work? I don't do much mms myself, but this guy loves to send them to me. Aug 29 11:11:36 Stskeeps, if you're interested http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/thumb/ Aug 29 11:11:47 EdLin: at least my operator sends a normal SMS with a web link to view MMS when someone sends me an MMS message Aug 29 11:11:49 EdLin, better than my S60 MMS interface Aug 29 11:12:03 Trewas, install fmms, then bitch at your operator Aug 29 11:12:28 I installed fmms after that, nobody has sent me a MMS after that so dunno how it works ;) Aug 29 11:12:52 rsync -e "ssh -p 22345" -r foldertocopy jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ Aug 29 11:12:58 I just hate how MMS didn't work well in jordan Aug 29 11:13:09 at least I'm back where it works now :P Aug 29 11:14:26 tobis87: err this would copy *to* the remote machine, not *from*, no? Aug 29 11:15:24 frals, ping Aug 29 11:15:34 pong Aug 29 11:15:43 how do I reset all fmms settings? Aug 29 11:16:05 particularly the APN, seems it can't autoconfigure when an APN is active Aug 29 11:16:07 no foldertocopy will be compared with mp3 on blah.cloud.de and the missing files will be copied, i recommend to add -u ( skip files that are newer on the receiver) Aug 29 11:16:41 MohammadAG: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/fmms Aug 29 11:16:51 MohammadAG: or just /apps/fmms/apn Aug 29 11:17:15 MohammadAG: might leave your internet connection settings fubar, but i trust you know how to fix it ;) Aug 29 11:17:22 * frals goes back to bfbc2 Aug 29 11:17:22 oh the otherway around? Aug 29 11:17:27 LOL Aug 29 11:17:29 mms sucks :< Aug 29 11:17:58 why would someone use a mms over an email Aug 29 11:18:23 Aug 29 11:18:23 Because many phones do not support it as easily Aug 29 11:18:35 to laugh at iphone users Aug 29 11:18:46 iPhone users have mms :P Aug 29 11:18:48 You can send pictures of drunk people with various areas exposed, with one or two buttons. Aug 29 11:19:04 kerio, scientific explanation ^ Aug 29 11:19:30 i think, you just need to switch the folders rsync -e "ssh -p 22345" jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ foldertocopy/ Aug 29 11:19:58 SpeedEvil: post them on flickr Aug 29 11:20:11 even better Aug 29 11:20:21 kerio: its not the same Aug 29 11:20:44 frals, your team on bfbc2 depends on you, screw IRC!! Aug 29 11:20:47 open browser > register flickr account > upload photo > sms friend > give them web link to flickr picture > hope they have a proper browser and data connection on their phone Aug 29 11:20:48 vs Aug 29 11:20:53 mms picture to them Aug 29 11:20:57 gee which is easier Aug 29 11:21:07 flickr Aug 29 11:21:08 :P Aug 29 11:21:13 MohammadAG: ;p Aug 29 11:21:36 frals, PC gamer? Aug 29 11:21:53 yeah, only wnkrs play fps on console ;) Aug 29 11:22:06 Oi, watch it :P Aug 29 11:22:20 nid0: except that you don't need to sms your friend Aug 29 11:22:31 he'll watch the photo on your flickr rss feed Aug 29 11:22:44 ah ofc course he will, how silly Aug 29 11:22:47 or on your facebook pace Aug 29 11:22:50 page Aug 29 11:23:06 everyone on the planet has a flickr account and rss feeds setup, on their phone, for everyone they might possibly want to see pictures from Aug 29 11:23:06 page Aug 29 11:23:10 its so clear now Aug 29 11:23:10 and you don't need to register more than once Aug 29 11:23:15 lol frals, unset everything in gconf, purged fmms, configuration is still there :P Aug 29 11:23:37 and sending 320x240 pictures via mms doesn't seem like a good idea to me :< Aug 29 11:23:47 DocScrutinizer: or, rsync -avz -e "ssh -p 22345" jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ destination/ Aug 29 11:23:47 haha kerio agreed Aug 29 11:23:57 MohammadAG: if you mean the iap, yes, its saved under /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/something Aug 29 11:23:57 nid0: no but most people have a facebook account Aug 29 11:24:06 LOL frals Aug 29 11:24:06 mms has never appealed to me Aug 29 11:24:11 tobis87: yup, that seems to be the catch Aug 29 11:24:15 kerio: im sending 3-5MPix pictures Aug 29 11:24:28 5MP is a lie! Aug 29 11:24:31 which will be correctly displayed by... the n900 Aug 29 11:24:34 Which reminds me. Aug 29 11:24:41 frals - how do you expect to send 5mp images via mms Aug 29 11:24:43 I need to do some proper resolution testing. Aug 29 11:24:56 yay testing Aug 29 11:25:06 technomike_phone: err, i attach the image -> press send, off it goes! Aug 29 11:25:06 tobis87: I left out dest/ as I had $cwd in correct location, so I thought no dest/ == ./ Aug 29 11:25:14 Also MohammadAG Aug 29 11:25:26 technomike_phone: mms picture size is only limited by restrictions of the mms software on the device in question Aug 29 11:25:33 And filesize Aug 29 11:25:52 Some/many operators cap filesize AIUI Aug 29 11:26:10 yeah, a lot of operators cap it as well Aug 29 11:26:15 ~wtf aiui Aug 29 11:26:17 AIUI: as I understand it Aug 29 11:26:26 ~botsnack Aug 29 11:26:26 kerio: :) Aug 29 11:26:27 Aha Aug 29 11:26:35 Apologies then frals Aug 29 11:26:47 I never knew that! :o thats epic then Aug 29 11:26:54 * SpeedEvil ponders PPPoMMS Aug 29 11:27:07 But it doesn't mean the recieving device can accept it either does it? Aug 29 11:27:12 no Aug 29 11:27:16 DocScrutinizer: it only compares folders, you should make sure you use -u, if you download new files with the same name, it would get overwriten... to have the exact on both, use --del... so on Aug 29 11:27:18 Thought so Aug 29 11:27:39 technomike_phone, also what? Aug 29 11:28:04 could you link me to where you have all.tar on the internet Aug 29 11:28:09 I need to redownload Aug 29 11:28:16 I think my copy is corrupt Aug 29 11:29:03 let me retar that properly Aug 29 11:29:17 thanks Aug 29 11:30:27 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/test/all.tar.gz Aug 29 11:31:34 Is there a share pic to arbitrary FTP site app? Aug 29 11:31:47 ovi store, yes Aug 29 11:32:01 Sigh. Aug 29 11:32:12 I need to register I suppose. Aug 29 11:32:25 i thought there was a ftp uploader Aug 29 11:32:31 MohammadAG: what's that? Aug 29 11:33:29 SpeedEvil, or use Red Pill mode Aug 29 11:33:38 woops Aug 29 11:33:46 kerio, pulseaudio Aug 29 11:33:53 I think AutoDisconnect disconnected my wifi Aug 29 11:33:57 connection Aug 29 11:34:11 tobis87: not really, I just replaced >>rsync -rvvt --no-l -e "ssh -p 22345" jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ destination/<< by >>* dest-2/<< and it worked like expected, created locally all dest-2/* subfolders found in remote:mp3, and started downloading files Aug 29 11:34:12 MohammadAG Aug 29 11:34:27 there are many icons in my menu. How can I remove them? There is an icon for Ovi store, for instance, manual, quick introduction, etc. Aug 29 11:34:41 tobis87: so I'll cancel scp now and resume with rsync Aug 29 11:35:04 jo-erlend, icons are .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/hildon Aug 29 11:35:13 thanks. :) Aug 29 11:38:16 MohammadAG - did you link to that? I may have missed it due to disconnect Aug 29 11:39:32 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/test/all.tar.gz Aug 29 11:40:19 thanks :D Aug 29 11:42:06 DocScrutinizer: yes, you can also do from/* /to/, but i don't see the reason for it, still you needed a destination. Aug 29 12:00:22 psycho_oreos: can i install meego and android on nokia n900 afterwards? Aug 29 12:00:54 senge, android on NIT is known as NITdroid, and yes you can Aug 29 12:01:13 though both projects are still very much works in progress Aug 29 12:01:25 and meego? Aug 29 12:01:38 same Aug 29 12:01:41 I wish there was a way to tell ovi maps which language to display stuff in :( Aug 29 12:02:08 ShadowJK, you can - it does three languages Aug 29 12:02:17 English, English and English Aug 29 12:02:19 :P Aug 29 12:02:33 i mean the maps Aug 29 12:02:50 does it display stuff in different language if you have non english ui? Aug 29 12:03:00 dunno Aug 29 12:03:07 I guess i forgot my sarcasm tags Aug 29 12:03:11 because then maybe just export LANG=something else in simple wrapper may work Aug 29 12:03:18 It's displaying maps in a swedish town in finnish. Aug 29 12:03:32 ShadowJK: it's almost the same Aug 29 12:03:59 I can search for the name I see on street sign, and it takes me to the right place on map, but in finnish :) Aug 29 12:04:12 street sign being in swedish Aug 29 12:04:16 well at least search works for you Aug 29 12:04:19 it doesn't for me Aug 29 12:04:52 yeah searching works awesomely Aug 29 12:05:02 why im using it instead of sygic Aug 29 12:05:17 Hi Aug 29 12:05:18 sygic search is failure Aug 29 12:05:20 sygic has this strange notion of requiring a town or village in your search Aug 29 12:05:21 esspecialy in london Aug 29 12:05:33 if you search by postcode Aug 29 12:05:40 but it uses village/town divisions not even the locals know of Aug 29 12:05:42 which what 99% of people do Aug 29 12:05:55 well here i can just select country Aug 29 12:05:59 and then type postcode Aug 29 12:06:10 but most of london postcodes are not on the list Aug 29 12:06:31 Hiii Aug 29 12:06:36 postcodes here are like subset of subset of subset... Aug 29 12:06:56 if I find the right one it might include the entire country Aug 29 12:07:01 hmm, how hard would it be to run tomtom on n900 Aug 29 12:07:02 that'd be nice Aug 29 12:07:09 Agreed Aug 29 12:07:09 because tomtom run linux Aug 29 12:07:18 Tomtom <3 Aug 29 12:07:20 Agreed. Aug 29 12:07:31 i'm not sure how it displays stuff Aug 29 12:07:33 prod them to port Aug 29 12:07:36 is it x or fb Aug 29 12:07:37 But tomtom don't srll arm versions. Aug 29 12:07:38 sell Aug 29 12:07:41 fb Aug 29 12:07:45 other than on wince Aug 29 12:07:50 ShadowJK: and iphone Aug 29 12:08:01 also tomtom has pretty funky datastore Aug 29 12:08:11 but it works Aug 29 12:08:15 and it works quite well Aug 29 12:08:22 if anybody has some spare time Aug 29 12:08:31 then maybe trying to run it in chroot may be good idea Aug 29 12:08:34 i mean it's not easily adaptable to "standard" linus :) Aug 29 12:08:46 linux Aug 29 12:08:46 it needs root for sure Aug 29 12:09:08 I'm sure linus isn't really that standard Aug 29 12:09:13 * ShadowJK blames the position of musb and headphone port on n900 for messing up spelling Aug 29 12:09:14 :P Aug 29 12:09:14 psycho_oreos: n900 seems to be really powerful and maemo is taking full advantage of it!! played with the phone today! i think i will buy it Aug 29 12:09:15 * DocScrutinizer yawns Aug 29 12:09:31 senge: maemo is going to be abandoned Aug 29 12:09:34 senge: wait for N9 Aug 29 12:09:39 I disagree Aug 29 12:09:45 Buy a phone now if you like it. Aug 29 12:09:59 New phones will always be along, and you may not like them. Aug 29 12:10:02 jacekowski: what a shit advice is THAT? Aug 29 12:10:06 But do youre research now. Aug 29 12:10:19 your** Aug 29 12:10:20 jacekowski, i am appaled you would commit such a sin Aug 29 12:10:20 well, N9 is going to be released soon Aug 29 12:10:31 N900 is quite old phone now Aug 29 12:10:36 As to whart apps and stuff are avalable on the platform. And don't base purchsing decisions based on what might be available on your platform Aug 29 12:10:55 anyways Aug 29 12:10:56 android seemed a safe bet! Aug 29 12:10:59 for the upcoming price of n900 its a quite nice phone for the price :P Aug 29 12:10:59 N9 Aug 29 12:11:00 wtf Aug 29 12:11:04 senge: definitely is Aug 29 12:11:07 N8 is just coming out Aug 29 12:11:17 N9 will be first meego device Aug 29 12:11:23 Ahhhhhhhh Aug 29 12:11:25 !!! Aug 29 12:11:25 Oh - I see the n900 has a 15% cut in price onthe UK store. Aug 29 12:11:27 epic Aug 29 12:12:02 jacekowski: given the info new high end smartphones of Nokia will run on meego, and looking at state of meego right now, I dare to bet considerable amounts of money there will be NO N9 next 6 months *at least* Aug 29 12:12:13 I would've qualified the G1 as being Epic, maybe not MeeGo Aug 29 12:12:24 DocScrutinizer: harmattan meego.. Aug 29 12:12:37 I am getting the N8 Aug 29 12:12:41 It looks epic Aug 29 12:13:15 Gah but its no N900 Aug 29 12:13:15 but hardware is quite slow Aug 29 12:13:19 Yeah Aug 29 12:13:22 :( Aug 29 12:13:38 ok! is the nokia n900 worth the money considering other android devices (namely HTC ones) ? :) Aug 29 12:13:46 worse display Aug 29 12:13:46 I had the N97 before N900 Aug 29 12:13:53 and it was epic fail Aug 29 12:14:00 Worst phone ever Aug 29 12:14:26 ? Aug 29 12:14:30 Ammount of bugs in it I mean. Even Nokia admitted it was a huge failure. Aug 29 12:14:35 N97 Aug 29 12:14:36 i quite like keyboard in n97 Aug 29 12:14:41 Oh yes Aug 29 12:14:43 me too Aug 29 12:14:49 and the way it opens Aug 29 12:14:50 and way how display is opening Aug 29 12:14:55 Haha yes Aug 29 12:14:58 same Aug 29 12:15:00 senge: if you don't see why you would prefer a *real* linux device over a andridiot fake, then for sure andridiot is the better option for you Aug 29 12:15:36 at some point somebody will port dalvik to glibc and then to normal linux Aug 29 12:17:05 senge: maemo/meego isn't a competitor to neither andridiot nor whiPhone Aug 29 12:17:33 jacekowski: worst part is some ubuntu guy did and then never released the source for ideological reasons.. Aug 29 12:18:31 isn't N900 a real linux phone Aug 29 12:18:36 whiphone? Aug 29 12:18:38 :o Aug 29 12:18:54 same question here Aug 29 12:18:55 jacekowski: this won't change the maemo user experience to that of an adridiot phone Aug 29 12:18:58 the n900 is the only other real linux phone Aug 29 12:19:06 what is whiphone Aug 29 12:19:17 I thought so kerio Aug 29 12:19:42 DocScrutinizer: :) well i guess n900 is good enough for me. coz thr is always a better phone coming up! ;) :) and it has all the feature needed. As for the OS i could upgrade maemo on n900 to meego, right? Aug 29 12:19:48 gosh C wizards are so stuck up :| Aug 29 12:20:17 senge: eventually yes Aug 29 12:20:17 dunno about meego on n900 yet Aug 29 12:20:37 when Stskeeps finished the meego-arm port Aug 29 12:20:40 I know for now its still very much wip for meego on n900 Aug 29 12:20:41 DocScrutinizer: i guess i will take the chances!! Aug 29 12:20:57 the n900 is a kickass device Aug 29 12:21:00 The fail thing about most phones for me is... no hardware keyboard Aug 29 12:21:06 psycho_oreos: heheh thanks for telling about n900 ;) Aug 29 12:21:06 it's somewhat of a lousy phone though Aug 29 12:21:22 kerio: any problems with your n900? Aug 29 12:21:45 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:21:46 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:21:46 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:21:50 senge, the only issues with n900 is that it has small battery size and that the GUI functionality isn't all that great Aug 29 12:21:58 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:21:58 ops? Aug 29 12:21:59 kerio: you never even *seen* a lousy phone, believe me :-P Aug 29 12:21:59 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:00 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:00 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:10 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:11 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:12 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:12 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:12 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:12 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:13 bye sc. Aug 29 12:22:13 * SC Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com Rc,Argetohu.com Aug 29 12:22:48 idoru failed Aug 29 12:22:56 senge - bad things for me are... the audio stutters... it lags sometimes due to high cpu usage... and battery life Aug 29 12:23:06 thanks DocScrutinizer Aug 29 12:23:07 senge: meh, it's not a phone you use to talk Aug 29 12:23:30 kerio, are you talking about n900? Aug 29 12:23:33 you can, I did, nothing wrong with phone functionality, just not perfect Aug 29 12:23:41 kerio - haha I use my n900 for my phone! Aug 29 12:23:48 me too. I love it. Aug 29 12:23:50 i am on it right now Aug 29 12:23:55 :D Aug 29 12:24:05 kerio: i dont do phone calls much!! just need it for the linux awesomeness and open-nesss ;) :) besides some phone calls :) Aug 29 12:24:06 on xchat on n900 Aug 29 12:24:14 senge: then it's perfect Aug 29 12:24:18 agreed Aug 29 12:24:25 its a perfect device Aug 29 12:24:32 but Aug 29 12:24:40 initially it may feel funny having a touchscreen that's warm and touching your ear and knowing that its a linux phone/internet tablet you have holding near your ear :) Aug 29 12:24:40 so its a true *linux device* Aug 29 12:24:57 yes. Aug 29 12:25:01 well almost true Aug 29 12:25:08 psycho_oreos: almost? Aug 29 12:25:23 senge, it has some proprietary software/driver/firmwares Aug 29 12:25:38 it disappoints me when audio stutters and when the cpu usage goes randomly high and it freezes up and also the bad battery life. Aug 29 12:25:43 it's not just a true linux device. It's also ARM. ARM and Linux are two of the coolest technologies around. :) Aug 29 12:25:46 but apart from those issues Aug 29 12:25:51 I absolutly love it Aug 29 12:25:52 like GPS can't be activated without phonet, and phone functionality is pretty much proprietary Aug 29 12:25:55 it does lots Aug 29 12:26:03 of functions Aug 29 12:26:19 technomike_phone: all linux apps etc etc? Aug 29 12:26:28 Yeah :D Aug 29 12:26:50 what isn't ported can be ran in easy debian Aug 29 12:26:52 I think the only thing I really miss on n900, is hdmi. Aug 29 12:27:00 SAME Aug 29 12:27:03 some of the poor battery life can be fixed by using power-kernel and auto-disconnect, etc Aug 29 12:27:22 which is why i am upgrading to N8 Aug 29 12:27:33 ewww shitian -_-' Aug 29 12:27:37 well N9 Aug 29 12:27:39 i mean Aug 29 12:27:51 hdmi on a phone is an overkill Aug 29 12:27:54 haha agreed psycho_oreos Aug 29 12:28:05 the gps needs a phone connection? my understanding was that it could work without, it would just take longer to get the initial lockon Aug 29 12:28:11 I'll be getting N9 if its good, but I won't be selling my n900 even if I obtain N9 Aug 29 12:28:22 t_s_o, *much* longer Aug 29 12:28:35 t_s_o, the module cannot be accessed directly Aug 29 12:28:46 symbian is the slowest phone OS and just generally shit compared to all the other phone os's today Aug 29 12:29:04 what do you think Aug 29 12:29:07 psycho_oreos: hehe! you really love you n900? Aug 29 12:29:10 :) Aug 29 12:29:13 jacekowski, why? Aug 29 12:29:14 symbian is retarded :) retarded and obsessive security over obscurity Aug 29 12:29:35 same here! I will not be selling my n900 at all. No matter what. Aug 29 12:29:42 symbian was the first phone os like that Aug 29 12:29:50 haha yes Aug 29 12:29:52 agreed Aug 29 12:29:52 and it's 30 years old operating system Aug 29 12:29:52 senge, well I love it because its more open compared to android.. sure its an incomplete masterpiece but its not like you'll lose a limb over it Aug 29 12:29:59 agreed Aug 29 12:30:15 jacekowski: that doesn't make it good Aug 29 12:30:23 it should be abandoned now in favor of newe technologies and stuff Aug 29 12:30:23 it just makes it old Aug 29 12:30:27 like maemo Aug 29 12:30:30 ok! seems perfect since linux requires the extra hardwork but the its imperfection makes it cool sometimes Aug 29 12:30:31 in fact it makes symbian pretty much counterproductive Aug 29 12:30:32 ;) Aug 29 12:30:49 haha agreed Aug 29 12:30:51 i'm just saying that symbian has a history behind it Aug 29 12:30:56 yes Aug 29 12:31:00 senge, if you're a hacker you will enjoy tinkering n900 :) Aug 29 12:31:07 and it isn't just a bad OS Aug 29 12:31:09 bad history though. Aug 29 12:31:24 every phone I have had with symbian has been sluggish Aug 29 12:31:29 it was first phone operating system when nobody really knew how to do it Aug 29 12:31:36 ah yeah true Aug 29 12:31:41 technomike_phone, if "best selling mobile OS ever" is bad history ... Aug 29 12:32:06 mikhas - best selling doesn't mean its good. Aug 29 12:32:07 it's like saying wright brothers first plane was shit Aug 29 12:32:10 I've had worse when my very first and will be my very last symbian phone.. n95.. random crashes, doesn't allow me to do things I want, and needs signed apps...extreme pita.. period Aug 29 12:32:30 norton anti-virus is best selling AV but we all know its fail. Aug 29 12:32:33 psycho_oreos: you can disable signature requirements Aug 29 12:32:33 what jacekowski said Aug 29 12:32:53 haha bad comparison Aug 29 12:33:00 jacekowski, untrue, that doesn't work when you have apps that don't have valid certificate.. it needs to be fully cracked Aug 29 12:33:01 but you see what i mean Aug 29 12:33:19 just mod the os to run unsigned apps Aug 29 12:33:28 and i had couple symbian phones Aug 29 12:33:35 (iphone's jailbreak, android's rooting) Aug 29 12:33:36 hence there was things like hello ox Aug 29 12:33:42 and some non nokia phones Aug 29 12:33:44 symbian's cracking Aug 29 12:33:49 and i always came back to nokia Aug 29 12:33:52 symbian was ok Aug 29 12:33:54 s60 was crap Aug 29 12:34:01 I remember when I first got my N95 8gb! good times Aug 29 12:34:01 7650 Aug 29 12:34:03 n-gage Aug 29 12:34:10 s60 v3 was the one I had, never again for symbian Aug 29 12:34:10 OH GOD THE n-gage Aug 29 12:34:11 N96 was failure Aug 29 12:34:20 and so was N97 :( Aug 29 12:34:22 n95-1 was by far the worst Aug 29 12:34:24 i really miss pandemonium from n-gage Aug 29 12:34:39 jacekowski: what game is it? Aug 29 12:34:39 its equipped with a puny RAM compared to the NAM version Aug 29 12:34:47 kerio: port of old pc game Aug 29 12:34:50 agreed psycho_oreos. but N96 felt like a downgrade Aug 29 12:35:03 not an upgrade lol Aug 29 12:35:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemonium_(video_game) Aug 29 12:35:14 technomike_phone, lucky for me to completely skip the boat of shitian fail :) Aug 29 12:35:23 haha Aug 29 12:35:24 I waited for n900 and now I have it Aug 29 12:35:27 :D Aug 29 12:35:51 I love the n900. It has everything! Aug 29 12:36:07 I bet someone writes an app to cook dinner with it soon Aug 29 12:36:08 haha Aug 29 12:36:30 wasn't there pyrecipe? heh Aug 29 12:36:48 Haha epic ! Aug 29 12:36:56 technomike_phone: adapt the linux coffee howto Aug 29 12:37:02 I'm in the process of designing a microwave oven conrtroller using my old phone. Aug 29 12:37:08 With internal webcam, ... Aug 29 12:37:13 wow Aug 29 12:38:03 that reminds me of something Aug 29 12:38:31 SpeedEvil: but does it run linux? Aug 29 12:39:24 yes. Aug 29 12:39:33 :D Aug 29 12:39:37 jacekowski, my beef doesn't end with having to fully crack it, I can't browse C:\, Z:\, I can't see hidden files and folders, I can't turn off the stupid camera/video shutter sounds (the otherwise lame law factors) and aboveall if I format the microSD card to whatever format is set on symbian, I cannot simply see the files under linux.. talk about epic fail Aug 29 12:39:38 neo1973 Aug 29 12:40:35 yeah Aug 29 12:40:47 that is huge failure Aug 29 12:42:29 n8 seems very expensive Aug 29 12:42:31 oh, the openmoko Aug 29 12:42:33 cute Aug 29 12:42:34 I am just trying the get_iplayer script for UK N900 users for bbc iplayer Aug 29 12:42:52 SpeedEvil: make the video feed public Aug 29 12:42:59 N8 will be expensive unfortunatly Aug 29 12:43:12 good tech inside though Aug 29 12:43:21 N8 probably won't worth your money if you like linux Aug 29 12:43:24 kerio: Sorry - pay-per-view only. Aug 29 12:43:36 :( Aug 29 12:43:43 12mp camera... hdmi... etc Aug 29 12:43:45 send the feed to myfreecams Aug 29 12:43:48 :D Aug 29 12:43:50 also guys Aug 29 12:44:02 i want a n9 :( Aug 29 12:44:02 N8 has usb host support Aug 29 12:44:04 sure nice specs... only to run symbian.. a waste Aug 29 12:44:11 so that's epic Aug 29 12:44:21 n900 should have it ffs Aug 29 12:44:29 :( Aug 29 12:44:31 technomike_phone: so pay the guys working on it Aug 29 12:44:35 there has been talks about usb host mode Aug 29 12:44:35 Ah ! Aug 29 12:44:38 :o Aug 29 12:44:45 they'll have a lot of time to develop if they can quit their jobs Aug 29 12:44:48 USB host mode is in progress, but it's slow. Aug 29 12:44:51 I neever knew Aug 29 12:45:01 or, you know, develop it yourself Aug 29 12:45:17 hell - I'd have more time, if I could pay someone 100 quid to do the garden for a bit. Aug 29 12:45:49 SpeedEvil: what's more satisfying, your garden or usb host mode? Aug 29 12:46:13 kerio: The problem is that I am getting the garden into a lower maintainance condition. Aug 29 12:46:14 kerio - good question haha Aug 29 12:46:35 kerio: And if I do not do it now, the amount of work I have to do next year will _considerably_ increase. Aug 29 12:46:46 And hence impact how much time then. Aug 29 12:47:58 definetly best to finish the garden for future free time Aug 29 12:48:43 Or alternativrely spend the time writing and consrtructing a gardenbot. Aug 29 12:49:04 With seccateurs, tiny weedkiller spray, and a 20mm autocannon in the head. Aug 29 12:50:38 SpeedEvil: you'll need usb host mode for that! Aug 29 12:50:44 *hint hint* Aug 29 12:54:09 hahahahaha Aug 29 12:54:31 and lol epic idea haha speedevil !! Aug 29 12:55:06 i want to connect my 500gb hd to my n900 Aug 29 12:55:17 wait, the 500gb is the internal one Aug 29 12:55:19 the 1tb Aug 29 12:55:44 wow Aug 29 12:55:57 Good idea though. Imagine that! Aug 29 12:56:24 guys Aug 29 12:56:50 although my home server kinda depends on that hd Aug 29 12:56:55 i should really reinstall my home server Aug 29 12:57:06 I have a video in /home/user/ Aug 29 12:57:12 possibly with debian instead of buntku Aug 29 12:57:13 on n900 Aug 29 12:57:27 how do i access it via media player to watch Aug 29 12:57:41 technomike_phone: hmm... cutexplorer? Aug 29 12:57:42 or what is command to move files Aug 29 12:57:44 Morning, all Aug 29 12:58:05 mv right? Aug 29 12:58:16 Interesting... http://www.petpassion.tv/inc/doc/OviMapsPlayerBetaWEB014_Docs/JsDocPublished_WEB014/index.html Aug 29 13:03:45 technomike_phone: mv /home/user/VID /home/user/MyDocs/.videos/ Aug 29 13:03:57 VID == name of the vid-file Aug 29 13:06:35 wuhu \o/ "sudo init 0" in the xterm of the n900 and it really dies like twice as fast \o/ Aug 29 13:16:57 lmao Aug 29 13:17:25 you know you've browsed the web too much when you see this in the article description: "Even fits well underneath tactical vests or concealment clothing." Aug 29 13:18:14 that's kind of my everyday article description Aug 29 13:18:16 ^^ Aug 29 13:20:52 yay, yet again a reset n900... i should keep track on when i flash it Aug 29 14:06:17 now wtf Aug 29 14:06:26 the email app will open an email then kick you back to the list Aug 29 14:07:35 what is the stock m5 email app called? Aug 29 14:07:48 maybe i can just delete the config dir and start from scratch Aug 29 14:09:24 it is called modest Aug 29 14:09:56 quite buggy in PR 1.2, but MohammadAG51 has a build of the most current patches Aug 29 14:11:09 ok wtf Aug 29 14:11:18 it is less than modest :-) Aug 29 14:11:19 it downloads the list of emails.. Aug 29 14:11:32 then when i try to open one it tries.. but doesn't open it and goes back to the list Aug 29 14:12:03 device storage full.. wtf?! Aug 29 14:12:35 porn? Aug 29 14:12:45 until a good email client designed for or well ported to N900, I will be using claws-email with all its good and bad issues Aug 29 14:12:52 i'm trying ot find out how the hell it's full Aug 29 14:12:55 i tried ot make a new msg Aug 29 14:13:04 make a new email and it is telling me the device is full :) Aug 29 14:13:24 tmpfs is full i guess Aug 29 14:13:24 ? Aug 29 14:13:25 the question is which device? Aug 29 14:14:34 you can use webmail if you don't want to bother with modest Aug 29 14:15:15 i want an actual client Aug 29 14:15:27 but this is making no sense Aug 29 14:15:47 i have no idea why it won't allow me to open the emails blah. let me try to find another email app Aug 29 14:16:10 Macer: contact MohammadAG, he has a newer package of modest Aug 29 14:19:37 guys, have a funny problem. Aug 29 14:19:48 trumee, all n900 problems are funny Aug 29 14:20:32 The media player in N900 doesnt connect to internet radio http://radash.ath.cx:88/broadwave.mp3 but mplayer plays it fine Aug 29 14:20:43 Neither does mediabox. Aug 29 14:21:09 heya folks Aug 29 14:21:43 lcuk, hola Aug 29 14:22:04 * lcuk has dull ringing in ear Aug 29 14:22:12 but no pain or dizzyness \o/ Aug 29 14:23:00 can somebody please try the above url in N900 media player. Aug 29 14:23:00 lcuk, play some neverball and report back Aug 29 14:23:22 it works in mplayer. Media player just keeps on connecting Aug 29 14:23:50 smhar: I'm tempted to rename the email client to "dbshyntago" Aug 29 14:24:09 "Don't be so humble, you're not that good" Aug 29 14:24:38 crashanddie, :-) Aug 29 14:24:47 crashanddie, DB Shine ta go ? Aug 29 14:25:09 I liked the 'shy' part Aug 29 14:26:56 trumee, works here Aug 29 14:27:08 ugh this is like the twilight zone Aug 29 14:27:22 trumee, crap music though. Aug 29 14:27:29 let me see if claws works Aug 29 14:27:38 i tried trojita and it's flakey too Aug 29 14:27:50 MNZ, thanks Aug 29 14:27:55 for testing Aug 29 14:32:43 mnz lol Aug 29 14:33:18 crashanddie, i think modest is a good name, it has corner cases like a lot of things Aug 29 14:33:41 lcuk: i know, i know, I'm not bashing modest at all Aug 29 14:34:03 lcuk: wasn't it on the n900 that everyone bashed the built-in email client, and modest was the saviour? Aug 29 14:34:10 s/n900/n8x0/ Aug 29 14:34:10 crashanddie meant: lcuk: wasn't it on the n8x0 that everyone bashed the built-in email client, and modest was the saviour? Aug 29 14:34:27 idk Aug 29 14:36:15 I've noticed no patches to modest to actually fix stuff though. Aug 29 14:36:20 By 'the community' Aug 29 14:36:36 But I haven't looked more than cursorily. Aug 29 14:37:43 SpeedEvil, in a way, its like all OSS Aug 29 14:37:48 or even closed stuff Aug 29 14:37:56 there is a hill to climb Aug 29 14:38:09 to get to know the codebase before someone is proficient at it Aug 29 14:38:14 and can actively offer patches Aug 29 14:38:19 modest appears maintained Aug 29 14:38:33 by good active devs (go look on gitorious) Aug 29 14:38:44 yes Aug 29 14:38:46 Of course Aug 29 14:38:56 For any other than trivial patches. Aug 29 14:38:58 and like any maintained software, offering good bugs with lots of info allows the devs to cure Aug 29 14:39:10 patches like what? Aug 29 14:39:12 well. claws it is Aug 29 14:39:14 typos Aug 29 14:39:27 i wonder if there is some type of way i can get claws to notify even when it isn't open Aug 29 14:39:27 hmm typos are harder usually Aug 29 14:39:32 /* This is a coment*/ Aug 29 14:39:32 since the code is translated Aug 29 14:39:40 the source itself does not contain real labels Aug 29 14:39:45 for example Aug 29 14:39:52 typos in comments? Aug 29 14:40:19 An example of a clear error that has no chance of being correct, and can be certainly fixed with no knowledge. Aug 29 14:40:34 If that patch is useful is a seperate question of course. Aug 29 14:40:41 if you know of one, please post it Aug 29 14:40:47 but most bugs I have seen arent Aug 29 14:40:51 yes. Aug 29 14:41:03 hm. does anybody kno wif there is a way to get claws to notify you without being open that there is new email? Aug 29 14:41:08 Most bugs need more than trivial reading of one function in isolation. Aug 29 14:41:14 or to get maemo to open claws instead of modest ? Aug 29 14:41:18 SpeedEvil, yup Aug 29 14:41:29 Macer, modest is open though Aug 29 14:41:31 thats the diff Aug 29 14:41:37 oh Aug 29 14:41:43 just don't see it running in the background or something? Aug 29 14:41:45 nice contacts plugins in devel Aug 29 14:41:53 http://gitorious.org/modest/modest Aug 29 14:43:00 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11091 - for example. Aug 29 14:43:01 Bug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats Aug 29 14:43:03 lcuk: heh. no .deb? Aug 29 14:43:17 I tried to follow the call-chain - but my head exploded. Aug 29 14:43:26 Macer, no gitorious service offers debs Aug 29 14:43:31 err git host Aug 29 14:43:37 its perhaps an issue Aug 29 14:43:40 I don't see a reason it should Aug 29 14:43:54 it would be nice for git places to dynamically build and offer various final packages ;0 Aug 29 14:43:59 but that becomes hairy Aug 29 14:44:10 especially when certain git hosts mis identify the type of project Aug 29 14:44:23 that's what the SSU is for :P Aug 29 14:44:29 * lcuk still withers when github identifies liqbase-playground as visual basic Aug 29 14:44:34 :) Aug 29 14:45:12 ( http://github.com/lcuk ) Aug 29 14:45:16 need help with GPG signing, or I could announce the SSU as terminal only Aug 29 14:45:34 MohammadAG, thats hardly seamless Aug 29 14:45:51 indeed Aug 29 14:46:10 your repo with the latest hildon libraries is cool :) Aug 29 14:46:15 MohammadAG: that would become SU, but not SSU Aug 29 14:46:19 :D Aug 29 14:47:11 well. claws will do. i'll just keep claws running Aug 29 14:47:17 SSU* * if you are a gnu hacker with qualifications in ancient unix runes and mystic practices but if you are my mum or someone wait a bit longer whilst we discuss and sort out things Aug 29 14:47:24 i sure wish there were a way to have it run in the background and open itself Aug 29 14:47:32 or to force maemo to use claws instead of modest Aug 29 14:47:44 like for the contact integration etc Aug 29 14:50:29 ARGH Aug 29 14:53:56 ok. that's it. i tried. but. maemo is shit. you guys put a lot of work in it. but other than the ability to act as a "linux distro" it is total garbage as a phone OS Aug 29 14:54:59 macer have you ever found a handheld system you are happy with? Aug 29 14:55:14 I have at various times in the last couple of years heard you rail on every OS Aug 29 14:55:18 symbian on the n95 Aug 29 14:55:23 :D Aug 29 14:55:24 lol Aug 29 14:55:25 :) Aug 29 14:55:40 Macer, symbian emulator on n900? Aug 29 14:55:43 its open source? Aug 29 14:55:59 android was ok after cyanogen but the jabber clients sucked Aug 29 14:56:03 * lcuk wants original nokia bw emualtor with snake Aug 29 14:56:11 full complete phone inside phone Aug 29 14:56:14 liqsymbian Aug 29 14:56:18 urg Aug 29 14:56:22 :P Aug 29 14:56:28 the beauty of Maemo is most of the things are free. You can freely modify the software if you don't like it. Even better: You can redistribute it as well :-) Aug 29 14:56:30 lcuk: does it do portrait mode? Aug 29 14:56:34 i would not want to lick a phone Aug 29 14:56:37 :-P Aug 29 14:56:39 Macer, it is portrait mode! Aug 29 14:56:46 does it do landscape? Aug 29 14:56:47 hahaha Aug 29 14:56:47 i mean original style nokia Aug 29 14:57:06 a real nokia 3210 active picture Aug 29 14:57:09 i'm ordering my galaxy-s now ;) Aug 29 14:57:09 push button etc Aug 29 14:57:48 lcuk: android started out pretty bad but at least now it is incredibly functional. maemo doesn't seem to have taken that path Aug 29 14:58:30 Macer: people will hate you if you relace the N900 with an Android crap Aug 29 14:58:45 well. i installed nit-droid on it ;) Aug 29 14:59:42 if all the hardware worked then i would wipe maemo altogether.. but nokia prevents android from working correctly on any of their phones because they are scared people will realize that running a nokia based phone os isn't as fulfilling :) Aug 29 14:59:43 I wonder if icd2 can be replaced with network-manager Aug 29 15:00:18 take one give one .. pile of shit? Aug 29 15:01:34 Macer: haha! Aug 29 15:01:41 Macer: what do you have against Maemo? Aug 29 15:01:41 lcuk, looks like someone forgot to have their milk and cookies Aug 29 15:01:47 :P Aug 29 15:01:59 hmm TermanaN900 ? Aug 29 15:02:12 i just had a glass of milk Aug 29 15:02:17 but yes, no cookies Aug 29 15:02:20 hah Macer! That's a stupid thing to say, because Nokia *does* push all it's Linux patches upstream. Google doesn't Aug 29 15:02:23 gotta watch my sugar intake Aug 29 15:02:26 lcuk, actually i meant Macer Aug 29 15:02:27 ffs school tomorrow :( Aug 29 15:02:27 :P Aug 29 15:02:36 lol TermanaN900 then that someone is YOU! Aug 29 15:03:01 Muelli: yeah... so, Android does use Nokia's patches, too! Aug 29 15:03:08 lcuk, no i just had mine. lol :P Aug 29 15:03:12 rotfl Aug 29 15:03:15 i'm evil Aug 29 15:03:16 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60567 Aug 29 15:03:31 it tooke them only a week to realise that this modified fmtxd doesn't really work Aug 29 15:03:35 took* Aug 29 15:03:47 unless you modify kernel module as well Aug 29 15:03:58 or change region Aug 29 15:04:01 or something Aug 29 15:04:13 placebo effect, "ooh its new and shiny and an update, clearly its better!" Aug 29 15:04:16 "owait." Aug 29 15:04:27 but people reported that it's working Aug 29 15:04:28 jacekowski, looks like your still figuring it out as well Aug 29 15:04:29 :P Aug 29 15:04:46 TermanaN900: ? Aug 29 15:05:00 no, my modified fmtx was supposed to only solve reduced power problem Aug 29 15:05:20 I wasnt someone who tried it, when you say doesnt work does it just not do anything or not increase transmission power/frequency range? Aug 29 15:05:22 but somebody asked in comments to remove frequency limit Aug 29 15:05:43 nid0: it increases power Aug 29 15:05:45 alone Aug 29 15:05:52 jacekowski, what im saying is, you just gave 3 different solutions, one of those being, do "whatever" Aug 29 15:06:11 jacekowski, so you must still be figuring it out :P Aug 29 15:06:14 no Aug 29 15:06:27 there are different options Aug 29 15:06:35 i just named 2 Aug 29 15:06:52 whatever is not an option then? Aug 29 15:06:53 :P Aug 29 15:07:03 it's metaoption Aug 29 15:07:17 * MohammadAG flushes TermanaN900 Aug 29 15:07:25 nid0: thing is that people reported that they had working lower frequencies Aug 29 15:07:38 nid0: and lower frequencies only work if you change region to 4 Aug 29 15:08:50 hey guys. a couple of weeks ago somebody came in the chan Aug 29 15:08:59 asking about getting "sudser" working on the n900 Aug 29 15:09:06 he had used it happily in the past Aug 29 15:09:11 so I did a quick smoke test Aug 29 15:09:17 and then mailed the maintainer Aug 29 15:09:30 who put it for chinook and diablo Aug 29 15:09:31 http://pastebin.com/3zevWDv4 Aug 29 15:09:42 is it possible those who can to just test this Aug 29 15:09:57 and the guy will submit to the fremantle queue once tests are done Aug 29 15:10:24 sudser enables normal "sudo blah" syntax from the terminal Aug 29 15:10:51 that's evil Aug 29 15:11:07 i mean it's security risk Aug 29 15:11:07 no, releasing binaries that you don't own is evil Aug 29 15:11:21 his work is something to make life simpler and more normal for folks Aug 29 15:11:49 Andrew doesn't have an N900 afaik Aug 29 15:11:59 exactly, so we need to check it for him :) Aug 29 15:12:00 sudo gainroot is more secure Aug 29 15:12:02 which is why he let me take over http://maemo.org/packages/view/mc/ Aug 29 15:12:13 ahh MohammadAG interesting Aug 29 15:12:22 would you want to talk to him about taking this package too? Aug 29 15:12:45 I requested to be a maintainer Aug 29 15:12:52 but sudser doesn't have one Aug 29 15:13:21 yeah its not been submitted to n900, it was just on the back of a couple of users asking Aug 29 15:13:36 so does it work? Aug 29 15:14:10 worked for me, but thats not the same Aug 29 15:14:19 does your device boot up Aug 29 15:14:23 yes Aug 29 15:14:57 hmm Aug 29 15:15:02 does it take long to install? Aug 29 15:15:35 no its a tiny package Aug 29 15:15:40 oh, GUI dialog Aug 29 15:15:44 yup Aug 29 15:16:37 lcuk, did you set a password? Aug 29 15:17:47 how would I tell, I probably did Aug 29 15:17:54 hold on Aug 29 15:18:15 sudo ifconfig Aug 29 15:18:20 doesnt ask for a password Aug 29 15:18:23 from x term Aug 29 15:18:34 so no, I don't think I did Aug 29 15:22:19 lcuk: well, what i'm doing is not even an eula breach Aug 29 15:23:17 jacekowski, why would you think I meant you? Aug 29 15:23:29 I merely mentioned something I thought that was evil Aug 29 15:23:48 because last time you mentioned it Aug 29 15:23:52 lcuk, try sudo -K; sudo ifconfig Aug 29 15:24:02 mnz, what would that do Aug 29 15:24:13 but since then i had time to ask questions Aug 29 15:24:24 sudo -K = remove the sudo cache. See if it asks for a password now Aug 29 15:25:04 no password still Aug 29 15:25:19 jacekowski, have you asked the people who own the binary? Aug 29 15:25:34 no Aug 29 15:25:43 aren't those the ones who matter? Aug 29 15:25:44 i asked a solicitor Aug 29 15:25:46 no Aug 29 15:26:11 and british law is one that matters Aug 29 15:26:13 in my case Aug 29 15:26:43 (d) You may not reverse engineer, reverse compile, disassemble, or Aug 29 15:26:43 otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software (except Aug 29 15:26:43 to the extent that this restriction is expressly prohibited by law) Aug 29 15:26:44 or create derivative works based on the Software. Aug 29 15:26:54 thing in bracket is the most important part of it Aug 29 15:27:42 wow, i like your style. does that mean you can do that with anything? Aug 29 15:28:17 lcuk: sudser is really a *bad* idea for maintaining a concerned bout security system Aug 29 15:28:29 DocScrutinizer, sure Aug 29 15:28:39 MohammadAG51: sudser is about as dead stupid simple as *# Aug 29 15:28:40 but so is sudo gainroot Aug 29 15:28:46 or any of the other various methods Aug 29 15:28:49 or installing debs Aug 29 15:28:52 righyright Aug 29 15:28:53 lcuk: distribution part of it is little bit illegal Aug 29 15:28:53 etc Aug 29 15:29:05 haha Aug 29 15:29:09 " a little bit " Aug 29 15:29:44 thing is Aug 29 15:29:48 that if you read eula Aug 29 15:29:48 Nokia grants to You non-exclusive, non-transferable end-user rights Aug 29 15:29:48 to install the Software on the local hard disk(s) or other permanent Aug 29 15:29:48 storage media of one computer and use the Software on a single computer Aug 29 15:29:49 or terminal at a time. Aug 29 15:30:00 my suggestion back when that guy came here asking bout sudser was to remove the NOPASSWD property from sudo gainroot sudorers config, as well as from sudsers sudoers config Aug 29 15:30:15 nothing about phone itself Aug 29 15:30:28 and create a root password like ssh install does Aug 29 15:30:41 and other thing is that i never accepted that eula Aug 29 15:30:50 i bought phone with software already on it Aug 29 15:30:53 and then upgraded it Aug 29 15:31:00 and it never asked me to accept eula Aug 29 15:31:19 jacekowski, aint phone a computer iself? hint: you can accept eula once per each device Aug 29 15:32:05 oh, you don't want to Aug 29 15:32:12 I see Aug 29 15:32:27 so that part is little bit fuzzy Aug 29 15:32:31 Now we need a court case to determine if the n900 is a phone or a computer Aug 29 15:32:53 according to nokia it's a tablet Aug 29 15:33:14 phone == computer nowadays Aug 29 15:33:26 lcuk: I'm temped to create a *pkg* (OMFG) to remove NOPASSWD from quite a number of lines in /etc/sudoers rsp /etc/sudoers.d/* Aug 29 15:33:39 well, nokia's n900 subsite does clearly define it as a computer many times Aug 29 15:34:18 * lcuk leaves for the afternoon, this is just too crazy to comprehend, perhaps tomorrow it will make more sense Aug 29 15:34:43 ... Aug 29 15:34:46 lcuk, sudser command in terminal to set a pass for Aug 29 15:34:48 sudo... meh Aug 29 15:35:06 He forgot his biscuits Aug 29 15:35:09 :D Aug 29 15:35:56 lcuk: same pkg could nuke the idiotic sudoers-update and instead include an #includedir /etc/sudoers.d line to /etc/sudoers Aug 29 15:36:04 hmm, how do i boot phone via usb Aug 29 15:36:07 with flasher Aug 29 15:36:10 DocScrutinizer, too late, he left Aug 29 15:36:10 i mean different kernel Aug 29 15:36:24 flasher-3.5 -k image.bin -l -b Aug 29 15:36:27 i would need to have modules already in /lib/modules Aug 29 15:36:44 ? Aug 29 15:36:57 DocScrutinizer: nice idea Aug 29 15:37:02 probably, unless you select a different root= Aug 29 15:37:03 jacekowski, yes Aug 29 15:37:11 using -b Aug 29 15:37:22 -b, --boot[=ARG] Boot the kernel with optional cmdline Aug 29 15:37:29 i considered to hack that on my device, but a package would be certainly of more value (for others) Aug 29 15:37:34 cehteh: yeah! I mean "update-sudoers" - what a weird shit is THAT? Aug 29 15:37:48 Hi Aug 29 15:37:56 it adds lines in /etc/sudoers.d to /etc/sudoers Aug 29 15:37:58 MohammadAG51, how would that help? He would still need to have modules located in the rootfs Aug 29 15:38:11 where ever it might be Aug 29 15:38:13 yes, but not the default one Aug 29 15:38:17 never looked at that .. we already concluded that the security model of the device doesnt really shine (what security?) .. right? Aug 29 15:38:30 MohammadAG51: I *know* _what_ it does, I just have no fsckng clue _why_ it does Aug 29 15:38:43 to allow apps to run with sudo without a pass Aug 29 15:38:55 m-shield ( ARM trustzone ) has so many features to make this device really secure Aug 29 15:38:57 what is the difference between 'su' and 'su -' ? Aug 29 15:39:01 a method similar to gksudo would be better Aug 29 15:39:03 but nobody bothered to use it Aug 29 15:39:06 MohammadAG51: stop talking to me like I am an idiot, please Aug 29 15:39:17 Venemo: man su Aug 29 15:39:25 DocScrutinizer, lol Aug 29 15:39:26 jacekowski: even the most basic unix security things are not deployed Aug 29 15:39:49 MohammadAG51: RTFM!!! man 5 sudoers Aug 29 15:39:55 i am rather wondering why there is a user and the whole userland doesnt run as root at first place :P Aug 29 15:40:03 /#includedir Aug 29 15:40:10 DocScrutinizer, i'm not the one asking o_O Aug 29 15:40:24 cehteh: oom would go crazy if that would be the case Aug 29 15:40:38 haha Aug 29 15:40:48 you found the reason! Aug 29 15:40:51 MohammadAG51: then stop answering as long as you have no idea about what's been the question Aug 29 15:41:00 chill Aug 29 15:41:07 johnsq: hardly workable on Windows :) Aug 29 15:41:16 DocScrutinizer, bad day? Aug 29 15:41:24 Hush, children. Aug 29 15:41:38 Wonderful Aug 29 15:41:39 Venemo: not entirely true, just type it into google instead of shell Aug 29 15:41:49 Venemo: then use a real os or google man su Aug 29 15:41:53 now we get to listen to the teachings of GAN Aug 29 15:41:57 :P Aug 29 15:43:02 GAN900, we're waiting Aug 29 15:43:12 GAN900: sorry, but >>[2010-08-29 17:33:51] lcuk: same pkg could nuke the idiotic sudoers-update and instead include an #includedir /etc/sudoers.d line to /etc/sudoers >>[2010-08-29 17:35:29] cehteh: yeah! I mean "update-sudoers" - what a weird shit is THAT? >>[2010-08-29 17:35:52] it adds lines in /etc/sudoers.d to /etc/sudoers >>[2010-08-29 17:36:25] MohammadAG51: I * Aug 29 15:43:14 know* _what_ it does, I just have no fsckng clue _why_ it does >>[2010-08-29 17:36:38] to allow apps to run with sudo without a pass Aug 29 15:43:26 well apparently not him Aug 29 15:43:45 sigh, ttyl Aug 29 15:44:05 "It's almost hard to imagine ever being so young now." Aug 29 15:44:19 Hehe Aug 29 15:44:47 DocScrutinizer, don't let the enthusiastic youngsters make you shout at them to get off your lawn. :P Aug 29 15:44:59 :-) Aug 29 15:46:09 well, only thing that comes to my mind would be optimisation Aug 29 15:46:17 so then sudo only has to read one file Aug 29 15:46:22 Anyway, is anybody else watching the Maemo-MeeGo OBS integration discussion on #meego and meego-dev with great hilarity? Aug 29 15:46:34 jacekowski: that's utter nonsense Aug 29 15:47:05 well, it would make sense if there would be 100s of files in /etc/sudoers.d Aug 29 15:47:08 I guess they tried to implement some syntax check or security fallback in a very very weird way Aug 29 15:47:23 DocScrutinizer, that's my understanding of it. Aug 29 15:48:33 http://cgi.ebay.de/Open-Pandora-Handheld-Netbook-Linux-Wifi-Emulators-/250689027050 Aug 29 15:49:10 GAN900: but then it would be much cleaner to just syntaxcheck sudoers.d/* and kick out any offending file to /tem/crap/* Aug 29 15:49:18 or similar scheme Aug 29 15:49:19 GAN900: not really fair. we try to do something for maemo developers and legal issues has to be sorted. people pushing it is all about open source and it pains us having to push this (as it is the right thing to do for developers) Aug 29 15:49:38 Stskeeps, it's not fair that it's fun to watch? Aug 29 15:50:05 GAN900: no, that you think it's 'fun' someone is doing something about a real problem. Aug 29 15:51:41 Stskeeps, hey, alternative is that I could be depressed about the whole thing. Aug 29 15:53:55 GAN900: when it comes to things people could potentially be sued over if not done right, these kind of discussions and views are valid. we've found a good solution now after being aware of these issues. Aug 29 15:54:58 Whats MeeGo? Aug 29 15:55:01 GAN900: for my sake the closed apis of fremantle could die a horrible death, but we both know that isn't the right thing to do for developers. so a solution has to be made. Aug 29 15:55:56 DangerMaus: meego.com Aug 29 15:56:58 Ahhhh! Aug 29 15:57:04 Stskeeps, well, I'm not exactly at the point where I'm attributing nobel intentions to MeeGo as a project. Aug 29 15:57:18 le* Aug 29 15:59:24 DocScrutinizer: just one question about bq24150 Aug 29 15:59:33 shoot Aug 29 15:59:37 DocScrutinizer: you want that module to have default startup configuration Aug 29 15:59:47 or read current settings in chip? Aug 29 16:00:01 hehe Aug 29 16:00:29 I'd say it should do a chip reset on module init Aug 29 16:00:37 great Aug 29 16:00:56 everything else would be rather insane Aug 29 16:01:04 Chip reset, and come up in 100mA charge state? Aug 29 16:01:08 Or wait for userspace Aug 29 16:01:40 come up in chip po defaults (which happens to be recovery charge config) Aug 29 16:01:50 GAN900: you've been reacting to every single thing with negativity when things are actually tried to be dealt with. it gets old. grab a shovel instead and/or do actual realistical proposals how to deal with issues you're supposed to represent. Aug 29 16:02:24 Stskeeps, I think I'm going to move on instead. Aug 29 16:02:44 MeeGo is currently incredibly exhausting and frustrating. Aug 29 16:03:26 any open source project is Aug 29 16:03:37 nah Aug 29 16:04:06 jacekowski, to some extent, but Maemo wasn't nearly as bad in 5 years as MeeGo has been for me. Aug 29 16:04:43 there are couple things you have to learn to deal with that problem Aug 29 16:05:14 how to shout at people, for example? Aug 29 16:05:23 you have to learn to don't car Aug 29 16:05:25 care* Aug 29 16:05:30 and to hate people Aug 29 16:05:31 pff Aug 29 16:06:00 * MNZ hates you guys Aug 29 16:06:12 * nid0 doesnt care Aug 29 16:06:17 I prefer to like peple and the work they do and to know they do as well Aug 29 16:06:18 i don't care Aug 29 16:06:55 there's been FOSS projects that were joy instead of pain to contribute Aug 29 16:07:23 last project i really was doing something with was amarok Aug 29 16:07:27 DocScrutinizer, why? what makes them different from maemo? how can me make maemo a joy to contribute to like the FOSS projects you speak of? Aug 29 16:07:34 DocScrutinizer: they always took time to get to that point though Aug 29 16:07:36 but then they decided to do amarok 2.0 Aug 29 16:07:39 MNZ, well, Maemo's dead. Aug 29 16:08:02 That's bit sad :( Aug 29 16:08:02 GAN900, is nothing from maemo going to be useful to meego? Aug 29 16:08:18 MNZ, apparently not. Aug 29 16:08:24 lets pack up then Aug 29 16:08:46 jacekowski: just shouted bitch at amarok (to be precise at phonon hardcompiled to amarok, and - oh wonder - at PA once again) Aug 29 16:09:07 well Aug 29 16:09:11 not so long ago Aug 29 16:09:17 amarok was the best player i ever saw Aug 29 16:09:22 multiple backends Aug 29 16:09:25 jacekowski, quodlibet ftw Aug 29 16:09:36 musicbrainz integration Aug 29 16:09:45 it could move files to directories Aug 29 16:09:50 jacekowski: ack Aug 29 16:09:53 keep lyrics and stuff in one place Aug 29 16:10:09 and what they done to it now is just sad Aug 29 16:10:16 now it's useless due to general audio madness on newer distros and KDE Aug 29 16:10:33 have you guys tried quodlibet seriously? Aug 29 16:10:49 foobar reminds me of amarok Aug 29 16:10:53 but it's not amarok Aug 29 16:11:09 MNZ: it's python and it's gtk based Aug 29 16:11:30 jacekowski, kde user... sorry had to guess from the amarok love Aug 29 16:11:43 but that was nice thing about amarok that it could have one database in mysql Aug 29 16:11:47 and all computers could use it Aug 29 16:12:16 jacekowski: I had latency from end of one song to start playback of next song, that increased by 3min (180s) on each new playback startoff Aug 29 16:12:24 quodlibet = python + gtk + gstreamer + hackiness + regexp search in all tags/filenames/directories/what-have-you Aug 29 16:12:43 DocScrutinizer: oO? Aug 29 16:13:26 How far fetched is it to try keeping maemo alive solely on community efforts? Aug 29 16:13:36 not very far Aug 29 16:13:51 community isn't organised enough Aug 29 16:13:55 PA fucking doesn't quit when it should, so obviously phonon/amarok waiting till day dawns for stream getting freed and then starts next Aug 29 16:14:50 jacekowski: I had some 2 years ago lags of several DAYS!! for KDE desktop event audio Aug 29 16:15:26 jacekowski: funny thing when the warning sound of a alert requester yells 50h after the actual event Aug 29 16:20:50 jacekowski: or maybe it's gstreamer, as aiui phonon is using gstreamer to interface to PA which in turn bases on ALSA device drivers :-x Aug 29 16:21:41 fuck yeah Aug 29 16:21:48 you have to love linux sound architecture Aug 29 16:22:18 jacekowski: notifier of phonon: "Phonon: Audio device hw:0.0 doesn't work, using hw:0.0 instead" MUHAHAHAHAAAAA Aug 29 16:23:28 Actually the linux sound architecture is not THAT horrible :/ it's just pulseaudio that sucks really. I've pretty much always had things work for me Aug 29 16:23:50 then again, debian doesn't use PA Aug 29 16:23:55 in phonon backend configuration you can select from gstreamer and xine - alas clicking on xine instantly segfaults Aug 29 16:24:41 * DocScrutinizer off for vomiting elsewhere Aug 29 16:24:45 hehe Aug 29 16:25:06 PA has gotten better, I think a lot of people who say it sucks have older experiences. Aug 29 16:25:18 ubuntu and some others adopted it too soon Aug 29 16:25:28 but then again, I guess that might have increased development pace Aug 29 16:25:36 i love that msg for the sound stuff DocScrutinizer i see if alot Aug 29 17:04:02 moin Aug 29 17:38:55 hey everyone Aug 29 17:39:28 my n900 is connected to wifi on which my laptop is also connected, but on n900 i cannot access internet and on laptop i can Aug 29 17:39:36 any idea whats happening ? Aug 29 17:39:49 any diagnostic commands ? Aug 29 17:40:01 ping? Aug 29 17:40:05 n900-space, and 'wifi' is some kind of a router? Aug 29 17:40:09 n900-space: hm, did you set yourself the ip it shpoudl fetch or are using dhcp? Aug 29 17:40:17 *should Aug 29 17:40:28 sorry for the typo <.< Aug 29 17:40:34 using dhcp mikki-kun , its getting the ip it usually gets Aug 29 17:40:38 no problem :) Aug 29 17:41:02 hm... did you try restarting your n900 and can you possibly ping it? Aug 29 17:41:04 wifi i meant slonopotamus, the wifi network, its a router yes Aug 29 17:41:24 n900-space, can n900 ping router itself? Aug 29 17:41:39 tried restarting many times, its been happening for more then a day now Aug 29 17:41:58 it worked before? Aug 29 17:42:03 do you mean ping the router mikki-kun ? Aug 29 17:42:11 oh Aug 29 17:42:18 yes it used to work slonopotamus Aug 29 17:42:29 what wud be the router's ip :) ? Aug 29 17:42:32 ping the n900 from your pc and yeah, also try pinging your router from the n900... Aug 29 17:43:07 n900-space, if your device ip is A.B.C.D, routes is usually A.B.C.1 Aug 29 17:43:16 like my n900 is issued 192.168.1.105 Aug 29 17:43:19 yes my laptop can ping it Aug 29 17:43:27 192.168.1.1 it should be then Aug 29 17:43:36 trying from n900 to router ping now Aug 29 17:44:07 n900-space, 'route -n' and see what is assigned as default gateway (for 0.0.0.0) Aug 29 17:44:08 yes it can ping the 192.168.1.1 Aug 29 17:44:13 okay Aug 29 17:44:24 now, check gateway thing Aug 29 17:44:32 ok Aug 29 17:45:00 says something like: Aug 29 17:45:26 destination is 192.168.1.0 .... Gateway is 0.0.0.0 Aug 29 17:45:31 thats the first line Aug 29 17:45:35 and the 2nd line: Aug 29 17:45:36 n900-space, other line, plz Aug 29 17:46:01 destination is 0.0.0.0 .... Gateway is 192.168.1.1 Aug 29 17:46:12 looks correct Aug 29 17:46:28 n900-space, can you ping 8.8.4.4 from n900? Aug 29 17:46:37 trying Aug 29 17:47:00 yes i can Aug 29 17:47:02 if yes, you have dns issue. if no, something is likely b0rked in router setup Aug 29 17:47:03 what is it btw Aug 29 17:47:12 google dns Aug 29 17:47:18 aha Aug 29 17:47:27 n900-space, google dns. just easy to remember Aug 29 17:47:36 ok Aug 29 17:47:55 n900-space, now, dns. what do you have in /etc/resolv.conf ? Aug 29 17:48:06 lemme check Aug 29 17:48:29 $10 it has some crap :) Aug 29 17:48:43 hhehehehe Aug 29 17:48:46 hehehe Aug 29 17:48:51 ok it says Aug 29 17:48:58 only has 2 lines Aug 29 17:49:01 and they say : Aug 29 17:49:14 slonopotamus: i think you just won ^^ Aug 29 17:49:20 line 1 : #automatically generated by pc-connectivity-manager Aug 29 17:49:36 line 2 : nameserver 192.168.2.14 Aug 29 17:50:04 bingo :) Aug 29 17:50:11 :) Aug 29 17:50:26 we have a winner here \o/ claim your price slonopotamus Aug 29 17:50:28 ^^ Aug 29 17:50:28 n900-space, replace second line with 'nameserver 192.168.1.1' (without quotes) Aug 29 17:50:40 slonopotamus: not 127.0.0.1? Aug 29 17:51:02 mikki-kun, n900 has dns daemon? Aug 29 17:51:10 ok and will not effect my pc connectivity in any way ? Aug 29 17:51:17 slonopotamus: at least my n900 has 127.0.0.1 in it and that works Aug 29 17:51:19 n900-space, nope Aug 29 17:51:33 n900-space, okay, first try 127.0.0.1 Aug 29 17:51:41 ok Aug 29 17:51:50 on 900, you're supposed to provide dnsmasq with a dns server. Aug 29 17:51:57 n900-space, 'nameserver 127.0.0.1' Aug 29 17:51:58 but my netbook (running gentoo) usses 192.168.1.1.... weird Aug 29 17:52:16 mikki-kun, and that's the proper setup Aug 29 17:52:35 n900-space, then try going to some websites Aug 29 17:52:39 take away my precious wpa_supplicant and stuff will not be properly set up ^^ Aug 29 17:52:56 working :) Aug 29 17:52:56 yayyy Aug 29 17:53:02 google.com just showed up Aug 29 17:53:45 n900-space, one of standard network troubles Aug 29 17:55:20 n900-space, okay, now i got root access to your computer. downloading out private pics... Aug 29 17:55:32 slonopotamus: maybe cause i have set up a static ip for that connection Aug 29 17:55:40 that's maybe why it uses 127.0.0.1 Aug 29 17:55:54 hehehe :) Aug 29 17:55:55 from my n900 and therefore needed to configure my dns-servers Aug 29 17:56:02 i'm running windows right now :) Aug 29 17:56:04 8.8.4.4 is my secondary ^^ Aug 29 17:56:52 n900-space, hey, installing linux on that thingie was step #0. Aug 29 17:57:53 yes n I have fedora c12 on multiboot, so aint that big a sinner these days. Aug 29 17:58:36 btw, i cud just not install the pc-connectivity app on fedora !!! Aug 29 17:58:42 its was just not getting installed. Aug 29 17:58:44 :o fedora? go gentoo! Aug 29 17:59:12 the way it has been described on pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/ Aug 29 17:59:18 gentoo? Aug 29 17:59:18 well sure Aug 29 17:59:23 will get it downloaded tonight Aug 29 17:59:53 I was having trouble getting my external hdd to boot my laptop Aug 29 17:59:56 its was sad Aug 29 18:00:08 n900-space, you were lucky you met me. if you met my dad, he would already installed freebsd 4.x on your poor box :) Aug 29 18:01:08 freebsd? that one i gotta try when i am feeling lucky Aug 29 18:01:37 slonopotamus: is it a huge change if you go there from linux? Aug 29 18:01:41 hehehe Aug 29 18:01:57 mikki-kun, no fun (on desktop), very moderate hw support Aug 29 18:01:59 mikki-kun, http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php Aug 29 18:02:11 :) Aug 29 18:02:40 mikki-kun, gentoo is a closest thing in linux world to freebsd (and that's why i'm using it) Aug 29 18:02:44 :) Aug 29 18:02:58 ./rants Aug 29 18:03:00 a fellow gentooer :) \o/ Aug 29 18:03:19 also, do not forget to lookup depenguinator project :D Aug 29 18:03:56 nox-: thanks for the link, will read it Aug 29 18:04:43 lemme boot this machine from fc12, since you guys are online I should ask for one more thing Aug 29 18:05:03 and re desktop freebsd, its not _that_ bad, i even have vdr running on freebsd now with dvb-s2 Aug 29 18:05:29 nox-, they still have oss Aug 29 18:05:39 (sound) Aug 29 18:05:55 nox-: Thanks for the link, it seems interesting. :) Aug 29 18:07:35 well is that a problem slonopotamus? at least freebsd's `oss' has in-kernel mixing and per-app volume so you rarely need any `sound daemons' like linux has countless ones... Aug 29 18:08:31 nox-, last time i tried (~2006) kde (with arts!!) could only make sounds from a single app at a time Aug 29 18:09:17 well ok maybe 2006 there were no vchans yet (or they werent enabled by default) Aug 29 18:09:39 and launching quake exclusively locked audio output so no other app could make any sound while it was running Aug 29 18:10:07 yeah then you didnt have vchans (enabled) Aug 29 18:11:06 nox-, i don't say freebsd is bad. i have it on a couple of servers. it just happens that linux is easier to use on desktops thanks to wider hw support Aug 29 18:11:22 (whatever. we're completely off-topic) Aug 29 18:11:24 yeah ok Aug 29 18:11:29 that too :) Aug 29 18:13:28 n900-space, hmm... fedora still boots?!?! Aug 29 18:13:56 heh, i have a problem with the app manager Aug 29 18:14:17 "Unable to update 'Evince: Document Viewer'. Update file corrupted." Aug 29 18:14:22 but that isn't my problem Aug 29 18:14:26 try again? Aug 29 18:14:32 the problem is whether to click "yes" or "no"... Aug 29 18:14:41 (facepalm) Aug 29 18:14:44 :D Aug 29 18:14:48 XD Aug 29 18:15:03 lol :) Aug 29 18:15:09 well, evaluate whether or not it was unable to update Aug 29 18:15:09 quick, screenshot it Aug 29 18:15:14 i presume someone forgot to type "Try again?" Aug 29 18:15:15 if unable, then yes. Aug 29 18:15:25 BCMM, it deserves to be put on tdwtf Aug 29 18:15:26 what's the screenshot shortcut again? Aug 29 18:15:44 BCMM, take a photo, whatever :) Aug 29 18:20:09 ctrl + shift + p i think it was Aug 29 18:20:18 n900-space, your fedora is kinda slow to boot up Aug 29 18:21:26 no my internet is slonopotamus Aug 29 18:21:39 and i was busy playing with n900 Aug 29 18:22:21 btw, any suggestions for a new laptop? Aug 29 18:23:04 * slonopotamus suggests buying a new laptop Aug 29 18:23:26 n900-space, just don't buy broadcom wifi Aug 29 18:23:38 n900-space, all the rest is fixable Aug 29 18:24:42 hmm Aug 29 18:25:11 i think my dell laptop has a wifi hw from broadcom Aug 29 18:25:37 you're lucky if it works properly Aug 29 18:25:58 it might not Aug 29 18:26:16 well its working right now Aug 29 18:26:36 doesnt dell also do things like nonstandard psu-to-mobo plugs/pinouts? Aug 29 18:26:37 i'm connected to the last signals that my router broadcasts .. from far away Aug 29 18:26:42 both my n900 and the laptop Aug 29 18:28:03 what OS will you run on the laptop? Aug 29 18:28:51 linux and windows 7. on the development side, QT for some learning stuff, and sql servers and visual studio 2010 for office work BCMM Aug 29 18:29:19 i've had plenty of sorta-working wireless with linux Aug 29 18:29:30 and one very good completely solid atheros Aug 29 18:29:56 BCMM, intel wifi are most trouble-less Aug 29 18:31:43 so i followed instructions here: Aug 29 18:31:44 http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/node3.html#SECTION00032200000000000000 Aug 29 18:31:53 slonopotamus: not my experience Aug 29 18:31:59 for getting this pc connectivity software on my linux installation Aug 29 18:32:15 slonopotamus: i had one that would panic the kernel when disconnecting from certain networks Aug 29 18:32:18 but according to the website, when i do a Aug 29 18:32:27 yum check-update Aug 29 18:32:33 this was a few years ago and hte driver might be much better now Aug 29 18:32:35 it gives me the following problem: Aug 29 18:32:54 Loaded plugins: presto, refresh-packagekit http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/yum/base/12/i386/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 14] HTTP Error 404 : http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/yum/base/12/i386/repodata/repomd.xml Trying other mirror. Error: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: pc-connectivity. Please verify its path and try again Aug 29 18:35:55 n900-space, maybe fedora11 is last thing it supports? Aug 29 18:36:22 hm, how can i disable myself the bootvideo of the n900 without installing any apps? Aug 29 18:36:31 the docs are old maybe Aug 29 18:36:52 but shouldnt that work in fc12 slonopotamus Aug 29 18:36:55 ? Aug 29 18:37:57 n900-space, try replacing 12 with 11 in your url. however it might not install/work Aug 29 18:38:36 mikki-kun, by looking what those apps do and doing same thing by hand? Aug 29 18:39:05 mikki-kun, i think you can install, disable video, uninstall Aug 29 18:40:02 n900-space, why you want maemo-pc-connectivity? Aug 29 18:40:28 thanks for the idea... i just thought somebody knows better already than i do Aug 29 18:41:09 n900-space, maybe you just want http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking ? Aug 29 18:41:29 I use that on windows to connect to n900, to do ssh and stuff. Aug 29 18:41:50 you don't need anything but wifi to do ssh Aug 29 18:41:51 yes actually usb networking is what i want on my linux laptop with n900 Aug 29 18:42:06 n900-space, just follow that page then Aug 29 18:42:52 lets say i'm not on a wifi, just the laptop and the n900 connected with a usb cable, for that. Aug 29 18:43:30 n900-space, that page has all info you need to setup it Aug 29 18:44:24 checking Aug 29 18:53:53 slonopotamus: once my n900 is connected to the laptop in usb mode, I want to use laptop's internet connection on my n900 (dont want n900 on wifi network cuz it keep disconnecting bcuz of weak signals) Aug 29 18:55:12 n900-space, you need to setup routing on laptop for that to work Aug 29 18:55:14 Is there something I'm supposed to manually do after upgrading the power kernel? I installed kernel-power 2.6.28-maemo40 on N900 and now that I rebooted it comes up with the blue Nokia text white background (usb icon), goes blank and doesn't do anything more. Aug 29 18:55:59 SpacedOut, weren't you told that overclocking is dangerous? :) Aug 29 18:56:36 installing power kernel != overclocking neccesarily Aug 29 18:56:54 slonopotamus: I didn't overclock, I just wanted to test the T-Mobile IPv6 datalink. Aug 29 18:57:02 n900-space, 1 sec, had a link nearby Aug 29 18:57:17 http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power ? Aug 29 18:59:11 I guess I try doing a USB flash of the kernel. Aug 29 18:59:17 n900-space, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Aug 29 19:00:24 n900-space, it describes desktop setup so n900 can access internet via it Aug 29 19:00:36 hey guys Aug 29 19:00:56 Can I use a 32gb microSD card on n900? Aug 29 19:01:19 no, 16gb is max (if i remember the specs correctly) Aug 29 19:02:22 oh :( Aug 29 19:04:13 (cool quote in topic, btw) Aug 29 19:10:32 i think 32g works too Aug 29 19:10:44 it's just not tested by nokia because it didn't exist Aug 29 19:10:59 Ah yeah! Aug 29 19:11:13 I am going to get a 32gb microsd Aug 29 19:11:40 they're so expensive Aug 29 19:11:51 are you that desperate for extra storage? :P Aug 29 19:12:19 Yeah but what do you think of the fake ones. I mean I know they aren't as fast but storage wise they are epic. Aug 29 19:12:20 technomike_phone has lots of porn Aug 29 19:12:26 Haha xD Aug 29 19:13:10 no other valid reason to take 2x32gb in a phone :) Aug 29 19:13:34 Hahaahah :P Aug 29 19:13:45 Good idea. Portable porn! Aug 29 19:13:52 xD Aug 29 19:14:12 has anyone an idea why my scratchbox can't connect to repository.maemo.org? Aug 29 19:14:19 resolv.conf if set correctly Aug 29 19:14:23 you can even share it via bluetooth! Aug 29 19:14:27 Hahaha Aug 29 19:14:46 Dakon, restarted scratchbox after computer boot? Aug 29 19:14:55 N900 is helping me learn linux more :D Aug 29 19:15:09 Dakon, can it connect anywhere else? Aug 29 19:15:12 yes Aug 29 19:15:27 no idea, there is no ping ;( Aug 29 19:15:46 facepalm.png Aug 29 19:16:43 Dakon, telnet, ssh, wget? it must have smth Aug 29 19:16:50 hm, no, doesn't look like Aug 29 19:17:21 I meant: it has ssh, but that also can't connect Aug 29 19:17:51 As far as I know, nobody besides Sandisk has 32gig microsd cards, so the "fakes" probably wrap around Aug 29 19:18:09 where wrap around means that as you start writing 17 gigabytes it's overwriting the first gig :) Aug 29 19:18:14 Dakon, by ip too? (to filter out dns troubles) Aug 29 19:18:30 ShadowJK :o oh Aug 29 19:18:38 hm, that works Aug 29 19:18:52 lucky you told me. Thanks. Definetly not going for that then :P Aug 29 19:19:07 pinging repository.maemo.org from outside the scratchbox works Aug 29 19:19:58 sigh Aug 29 19:20:15 ShadowJK: I doubt they'd use expensive 16GB chips to fake a 32GB MMC Aug 29 19:20:17 technomike_phone, have you seen too-cheap-to-be-true 32g microsdhc? Aug 29 19:20:29 DocScrutinizer, yeah it probably fucks up earlier :) Aug 29 19:20:57 slonopotamus: the moment i connect my n900 to my laptop, the laptop's wifi connection stops working Aug 29 19:21:01 "... do show 32GB and 16Gb in capacity, they do work but only up to 1GB if your lucky. " Aug 29 19:21:17 haha Aug 29 19:21:23 :) Aug 29 19:21:43 I will wait for drop in price of genuine Aug 29 19:25:22 n900-space, sorry for outdated link. you want http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Aug 29 19:25:47 aha Aug 29 19:25:56 np Aug 29 19:27:40 n900-space, that possibly means laptop takes wrong route (tries to go outside via usb, not via wifi). take a look at 'route -n' output when 'wifi stops working' as you say. and read through that new page, maybe it has explicit proper routes Aug 29 19:28:01 YES PHATE Aug 29 19:28:07 RENEGADE SNAREZ Aug 29 19:28:11 !!! Aug 29 19:28:24 GETTING BACK IN THE JUNGLE! Aug 29 19:28:26 man Aug 29 19:28:42 i want to go into the jungle for real Aug 29 19:28:56 ok i will slonopotamus , and thanks for helping out in getting the internet working on n900 too ! Aug 29 19:29:27 that was my friend typing in the wrong channel Aug 29 19:29:30 sorry guys Aug 29 19:29:58 * slonopotamus got really weird pptp setup where default policy routed eth0 traffic _into_ pptp tunnel working over eth0 :D Aug 29 19:30:02 wow, freenode has a channel where that is normal? Aug 29 19:30:29 hehe Aug 29 19:30:33 BCMM, :D Aug 29 19:30:34 I am going to buy Joikuspot and check it out Aug 29 19:30:40 Have any of you guys got it Aug 29 19:30:55 technomike_phone: there is also "mobile hotspot" in the extras-testing repo Aug 29 19:31:10 relies on titan's custom kernel yet should be free Aug 29 19:31:18 and sport the same features joiku does Aug 29 19:31:45 * cehteh wishes for a real hotspot aka managed mode Aug 29 19:32:03 dhcp and all Aug 29 19:32:16 ah! Aug 29 19:32:31 but i haven't tried it as i don't have 3g, sadly Aug 29 19:32:32 thanks alot mikki-kun Aug 29 19:32:44 wow not having 3g Aug 29 19:32:47 n900-space, yeah, that link has some words on default gateway mess Aug 29 19:33:01 I am so used to having 3g everywhere i go here in uk Aug 29 19:33:02 no problem :) i saw it once and it got mentioned a couple of time somewhere so i decided to give it a look Aug 29 19:33:16 that its hard to imagine life without 3g Aug 29 19:33:55 if you know more about it could you please make a small review of that app? :) Aug 29 19:34:08 couldn't find any in particular Aug 29 19:34:18 Sure Aug 29 19:34:27 that would be cool Aug 29 19:34:48 What is the best custom kernel to use in your opinion Aug 29 19:35:00 I have kernel-power installed Aug 29 19:35:21 technomike_phone, the one that was configured by someone else Aug 29 19:35:34 haha what would that be Aug 29 19:36:41 technomike_phone: Which version? I dorked up my device with the -40 version. Aug 29 19:36:44 i mean, not by yourself :) it becomes a really boring experience after you configure first 5-10 kernels Aug 29 19:37:06 slonopotamus: yet every time you seek the best performance i guess ;) Aug 29 19:37:32 not just randomly adding and removing stuff x) Aug 29 19:38:18 feels like yesterday when i was like "ughhh, what the?! is that important? i hope..." Aug 29 19:38:35 SpacedOut Aug 29 19:38:37 mikki-kun, after all, i ended up using genkernel. no visible performance loss/gain Aug 29 19:38:41 I am really not sure Aug 29 19:38:42 but uhm yeah, how could i make my own kernel vor the n900? Aug 29 19:38:47 *for Aug 29 19:38:53 mikki-kun, sure, why not Aug 29 19:38:56 I just typed apt-get install kernel-power Aug 29 19:39:08 oh, 'how' Aug 29 19:39:20 technomike_phone: i am running the -40 but something just doesn't seem to work with the apps i combine... either the kernel or i dunno what... Aug 29 19:39:35 as usual. get sources, get compiler, make menuconfig, make Aug 29 19:39:53 `dpkg -l kernel-power` then again it might only have been a problem on upgrading, I have no idea, I'm looking at the instructions for flashing over USB. Aug 29 19:39:54 i'd need to compile on arm-architecture, right? Aug 29 19:39:56 Well it seems a little unstable but it could just be me Aug 29 19:40:10 mikki-kun, or with a crosscompiler Aug 29 19:40:19 mikki-kun: That's what the SDK is for. Aug 29 19:40:50 SpacedOut: the sdk pulls in like "you need this and that"... it asks me to install previous versions of stuff i have >.< Aug 29 19:40:57 SpacedOut, you don't need 'SDK' to compile a kernel. you just need a toolchain. Aug 29 19:41:13 and i'd say if i need an sdk for making a kernel then somethign went awfully wrong with the design Aug 29 19:41:15 toolchain is a part of SDK Aug 29 19:41:39 that doesn't mean you can't take only toolchain Aug 29 19:42:01 any way i can find out the parameters with which the kernel was compiled? Aug 29 19:42:15 mikki-kun, .config? Aug 29 19:42:31 slonopotamus: i meant if i have the kernel but not the .config Aug 29 19:42:40 or is that somewhere as well placed? Aug 29 19:42:58 mikki-kun, i think n900 config is present in n900 kernel package Aug 29 19:43:22 mikki-kun, or publically accessible nearby Aug 29 19:43:36 at least tian should have it Aug 29 19:43:39 *titan Aug 29 19:44:22 and ok, that's maybe a dumb question, but can i take another kernel-version? Aug 29 19:44:36 like 2.6.35? Aug 29 19:44:59 no Aug 29 19:45:05 it'll be missing some stuff required for maemo Aug 29 19:45:21 hm, basically i'd just need to patch then the kernel Aug 29 19:45:21 mikki-kun: Maemo isn't Linux, it's derived from Linux. Aug 29 19:45:24 mikki-kun, n900 kernel is somewhat patched Aug 29 19:45:35 mikki-kun: porting stuff between versions is non-trivial Aug 29 19:45:53 maemo =! linux?! Aug 29 19:46:04 luke-jr's insane, don't mind him Aug 29 19:46:05 :P Aug 29 19:46:15 mikki-kun: they took an old version of Linux, and modified it a lot Aug 29 19:46:20 mikki-kun, http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-custom-kernel.html Aug 29 19:46:35 a lot? they didn't modify it enough Aug 29 19:46:38 luke-jr, it wasn't so old when they took it Aug 29 19:46:43 for desktop performance for example Aug 29 19:46:44 slonopotamus: it's old now! Aug 29 19:46:48 i hope some day we will be able to install gentoo properly on the n900 Aug 29 19:46:52 that would be enough for me Aug 29 19:47:02 "properly"? Aug 29 19:47:08 fremantle-sources works fine :P Aug 29 19:47:08 'properly'? Aug 29 19:47:19 meego-sources should work for Gentoo as well, but then you lose Maemo Aug 29 19:47:42 in particular i am very annoyed by e.g. no /var/log/dmesg or /var/log/messages Aug 29 19:47:54 mikki-kun: none of my Gentoo systems have those either Aug 29 19:47:56 metalog ftw Aug 29 19:48:22 hm, is that as well employed in maemo? Aug 29 19:48:25 no Aug 29 19:48:28 mikki-kun, As of today (March 6th 2010), the N900 kernel is a Nokia-patched 2.6.28-omap1. Current stable version of 2.6.28 kernel series is version 10 (i.e. 2.6.28.10). The associated patch is more than 850 KB (wc reports 26418 lines for that baby). Aug 29 19:48:30 but I run Gentoo Aug 29 19:48:31 :p Aug 29 19:49:28 meh, go for 2.6.35 Aug 29 19:49:28 :P Aug 29 19:49:29 bbl Aug 29 19:49:32 i am runnign as well gentoo =p Aug 29 19:49:45 so install metalog or whatever and be happy :P Aug 29 19:49:50 slonopotamus: you think we can share the lines? :D Aug 29 19:49:58 like 50:50 ^^''' Aug 29 19:50:04 mikki-kun: no point Aug 29 19:50:12 MeeGo already has a mostly ported 2.6.35 Aug 29 19:50:19 but it's ported to N900, not to Maemo Aug 29 19:50:24 because Maemo is dead Aug 29 19:50:40 well, mine dies after i reinstall all the apps i installed Aug 29 19:50:43 kinda... lame Aug 29 19:50:50 on a reinstall Aug 29 19:50:54 mikki-kun: so install Gentoo instead of Maemo? :P Aug 29 19:51:03 actually, I don't think you can get rid of Maemo entirely yet :\ Aug 29 19:51:17 i would love to, but the poor cpu would fry before it would be all compiled :( Aug 29 19:51:25 mikki-kun: mine didn't. Aug 29 19:51:28 yours is that old? Aug 29 19:51:51 uhhh, on your n900? Aug 29 19:51:54 yeah Aug 29 19:52:06 hm, how long did it take you? Aug 29 19:52:14 luke-jr's insane, don't mind him Aug 29 19:52:15 also, according to cpufreq-info, I only use 600 MHz for 3.15% of the time Aug 29 19:52:22 insane gentoo users :) Aug 29 19:52:24 mikki-kun: I forget, a few days? Aug 29 19:52:30 lol Aug 29 19:52:43 updates usually finish overnight Aug 29 19:52:54 * luke-jr notes he used Gentoo on his old 800 MHz desktop too Aug 29 19:52:59 mikki-kun, n900 is clockable up to 1.1GHz, that's pretty a lot Aug 29 19:53:00 and that was no doubt slower than N900 Aug 29 19:53:06 mikki-kun: corei7 qemu compiles in about 24h Aug 29 19:53:13 slonopotamus: and reducing it's lifetime badly Aug 29 19:53:21 mikki-kun: 600 MHz is enough Aug 29 19:53:38 mikki-kun, 600 is still not-so-bad Aug 29 19:53:52 luke-jr: at times it feels like i'd need a gazillion hertz Aug 29 19:53:58 mikki-kun: impatient.. Aug 29 19:54:07 badly written code i guess Aug 29 19:54:29 or way too heavy on the poor hardware Aug 29 19:54:30 actually, it'd be far easier if you ran a recent Linux port Aug 29 19:54:48 like which one? Aug 29 19:54:49 mikki-kun: again, I used Gentoo back when 800 MHz was the norm for desktops… it's bearable Aug 29 19:54:59 mikki-kun: like one with proper I/O prioritization ;) Aug 29 19:55:09 so you can just set emerge to "bulk" I/O priority Aug 29 19:55:09 n280 here @ 1.66 Aug 29 19:55:14 * slonopotamus wonders why everyone _suddenly_ stopped talking about mmc wear-out and switched to overclocking-is-dangerous Aug 29 19:55:21 so i know what it means to have 'slow' speeds Aug 29 19:55:32 mmc wear-out? Aug 29 19:55:36 slonopotamus: we read the OMAP specs :P Aug 29 19:55:37 did i miss a hype? :o Aug 29 19:55:51 at 600 MHz, the OMAP will last less than a year Aug 29 19:56:08 and that time drops off fast as you overclock more Aug 29 19:56:15 luke-jr: i didn't, i just know it makes logical sense why TI said that cpu is actually for (was it really?) 500MhZ Aug 29 19:56:35 luke-jr, n900 swaps to builtin, mmc Aug 29 19:56:52 slonopotamus: by default Aug 29 19:56:52 it'll definitely wear out in a moment Aug 29 19:57:04 alterego: ping Aug 29 19:57:07 ~seen alterego Aug 29 19:57:12 slonopotamus: take a fine saw and saw it off, take the new one, use duct-tape and wd40 and it'll work like a charm! Aug 29 19:57:13 in Gentoo, I swap to MicroSD Aug 29 19:57:13 alterego is currently on #maemo, last said: 'Depends who's justifying it.'. Aug 29 19:57:35 infobot: fail Aug 29 19:57:36 FAIL. Aug 29 19:57:42 :D Aug 29 19:57:50 cpufreq stats: 600 MHz:3.15%, 550 MHz:0.04%, 500 MHz:88.95%, 250 MHz:7.87% (50860) Aug 29 19:57:53 uhhh... shouldn't it be 'FAIL!' Aug 29 19:58:26 i read a datasheet for an mmc once, did the math, and concluded it'd take ages to wear out at constant 1.5Meg/s rate (which was what I was doing with that thing at the timej Aug 29 19:59:01 heh Aug 29 19:59:13 eMMC's solution to swap wear-out problem: slow down the data rate to make it take longer Aug 29 19:59:45 it doesn't have the resources to do it fast :) Aug 29 19:59:47 do faster eMMCs therefore die faster? Aug 29 19:59:48 I'll stick to the throwaway fast MicroSD cards Aug 29 19:59:59 ShadowJK: my MicroSDs are faster than the eMMC Aug 29 20:00:13 luke-jr: which ones are you using? class 12? Ö.ö Aug 29 20:00:18 mikki-kun: no clue Aug 29 20:00:22 whatever I had lying around Aug 29 20:00:31 then how can you say yours are faster than the emmc? Aug 29 20:00:49 dd says so Aug 29 20:00:54 also since only stuff you manually force to use the microsd, it gets much faster Aug 29 20:00:57 mikki-kun, mmc wear-out was as FUD as current overclocking-is-dangerous stuff Aug 29 20:01:11 ShadowJK: I forget if I had swap disabled or not Aug 29 20:01:13 because sd/(e)mmc really hates seeks Aug 29 20:01:27 ... Aug 29 20:01:44 even with swap disabled it'll do demand paging of stuff in /opt Aug 29 20:02:01 ShadowJK: Maemo mayeb Aug 29 20:02:06 I'll have to retest under Gentoo Aug 29 20:02:11 slonopotamus, when writing, pure read-only random access is fast Aug 29 20:02:43 err...wut? Aug 29 20:02:45 iirc I got about 6meg/s write speed on the emmc Aug 29 20:03:08 slonopotamus, on as/(e)mmc random access write is superslow Aug 29 20:03:23 err, wtf Aug 29 20:03:26 my Gentoo won't boot anymore Aug 29 20:03:37 ShadowJK, slower than on hdd? in % Aug 29 20:03:38 like that 6meg/s degrades easily to 200kbyte/s Aug 29 20:03:42 meh Aug 29 20:04:03 random writes on hdd easily degrade to 10kbyte/s Aug 29 20:04:11 well, maybe 20 Aug 29 20:04:18 no way :) Aug 29 20:04:39 single seek is 5-10ms Aug 29 20:04:51 ~seen lcuk Aug 29 20:04:54 lcuk was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4h 35m 43s ago, saying: '" a little bit "'. Aug 29 20:05:14 http://mellbimbo.eu/files/33293.jpg -> lcuk would have liked this Aug 29 20:06:29 !!! select error: (4, 'Interrupted system call') Aug 29 20:07:37 CRAP Aug 29 20:07:41 Gentoo requires R&D mode to boot ☹ Aug 29 20:07:58 how you managed to do that? Aug 29 20:08:11 watchdogs? Aug 29 20:08:19 oh Aug 29 20:08:24 LOL Aug 29 20:08:30 write a wd kicker Aug 29 20:08:33 :/ Aug 29 20:08:38 slonopotamus: it's before 'boot' runlevel Aug 29 20:08:41 watchdog is enabled only if you kick it Aug 29 20:08:42 better as an in-kernel driver Aug 29 20:08:47 so untill fist kick it's disabled Aug 29 20:08:58 slonopotamus: in-kernel kicker is bad idea Aug 29 20:09:06 slonopotamus: it won't detect userland malfunction Aug 29 20:09:14 jacekowski, watchdog is a bad idea Aug 29 20:09:43 software charger is an insamely bad idea Aug 29 20:09:46 :P Aug 29 20:10:10 expecially userspace software charger Aug 29 20:10:20 s/xp/sp/ Aug 29 20:10:21 slonopotamus meant: especially userspace software charger Aug 29 20:10:26 slonopotamus: write a kernel module to kick a kernel module??? X-P Aug 29 20:10:39 that's a cool idea Aug 29 20:10:52 DocScrutinizer51, there's hw wd, no? Aug 29 20:10:56 it's the OMAP WD Aug 29 20:11:06 i win Aug 29 20:11:11 CONFIG_GTFO! <-- that'll be a good name for it i guess ^^ Aug 29 20:11:19 disabling only the OMAP WD boots Aug 29 20:11:56 slonopotamus, here's a graph: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/thessdanthology_031809001858/18643.png Aug 29 20:12:13 notice the harddrives outperforming the jmicron based SSDs :) Aug 29 20:12:25 and samsung.. Aug 29 20:12:26 slonopotamus: there's n9 autonomous hw wd, and there's no such thing like a sw charger, in N900 Aug 29 20:12:47 yeah - 4K random write is pessimal Aug 29 20:12:50 Pretty much Aug 29 20:12:52 s/n9/no/ Aug 29 20:12:53 DocScrutinizer51 meant: slonopotamus: there's no autonomous hw wd, and there's no such thing like a sw charger, in N900 Aug 29 20:13:07 ShadowJK: Do you happen to have 64K and 128K random write? Aug 29 20:13:16 nop Aug 29 20:13:36 http://www.anandtech.com/show/2738/25 Aug 29 20:13:52 "You need to also disable watchdogs if you are not using the closed components, especially the Battery Management Entity (BME). This can be done similarly to above, except the flasher command is following: sudo flasher-3.5 –enable-rd-mode –set-rd-flags=no-omap-wd,no-ext-wd" Aug 29 20:14:21 whoah, seeing my ssd at place two for random writes @ 4K is nice :) Aug 29 20:14:35 ShadowJK, conclusion - everything but intel ssd under random writes = epic fail Aug 29 20:14:59 slonopotamus, well this article was written a few years ago Aug 29 20:15:12 the author was so pissed off at the ssd in his laptop Aug 29 20:15:30 ShadowJK, well, there are more ssds now Aug 29 20:15:34 ShadowJK: how come intel manage to have drives that are so superior Aug 29 20:15:38 it would randomly freeze for a second when writing IMs or clicking a link Aug 29 20:15:52 ShadowJK: i mean, where did the technology come from? Did they buy some company, or was it in-house tech? Aug 29 20:15:57 music would stutter when switching from one app to another or opening a new window Aug 29 20:16:32 eMMC swap partition: read=12.4 MB/s, write=3.1 MB/s Aug 29 20:16:45 crashanddie, basically everyone else was focusing on sequential read/write because that's what every review site tested Aug 29 20:16:54 luke-jr, moved to xorg-1.8 already? Aug 29 20:16:58 hm... funny, with the flasher i get via usb around 12MB/sec write.... Aug 29 20:17:03 slonopotamus: dunno, whatever's stable Aug 29 20:17:19 intel benchmarked slower than competition in those stupid benchmarks Aug 29 20:17:27 luke-jr, 1.8 is the first one to drop hal Aug 29 20:17:28 but real life performance was superior Aug 29 20:17:34 slonopotamus: HAL was always optional Aug 29 20:17:42 ShadowJK: and then the testors went "eh?" when they noticed the machine actually worked a whole lot faster? Aug 29 20:17:57 luke-jr, yeah, but now it is deprecated completely Aug 29 20:18:06 ShadowJK: do you know the curent price point of SSD (and more specifically, Intel)? Aug 29 20:18:12 What the SSD has to do is run a log structred filesystem ontop of the ssds. Treat the ssd like a tape drive, writing into a circular buffer Aug 29 20:18:15 slonopotamus: you can still use hal, last version Aug 29 20:18:20 crashanddie: you need to actually do a lot more expensive and complex block control to get good random write perrfrmance. Aug 29 20:18:41 crashanddie, well doesn't amazon know.. Aug 29 20:18:49 or newegg, whatever Aug 29 20:18:50 MicroSD swap partition: read=20 MB/s, write=3.4 MB/s Aug 29 20:19:16 hey lcuk Aug 29 20:19:21 ocz vertex is also good. Anand basically yelled at ocx until they gave in and made the first non-intel non-shit ssd ;p Aug 29 20:19:23 mikki-kun, i'd like to remove it completely, but k3b doesn't work then :( Aug 29 20:19:25 hey MohammadAG51, is it tomorrow? Aug 29 20:19:26 lol... really i don't know whether to laugh or cry, but that is just insane Aug 29 20:19:26 `real' blocksize on ssds is some 128 or 256 K, right? Aug 29 20:19:34 nox-, yes Aug 29 20:19:46 hmm... Intel X25 is still roughly at around $2.6 per gig Aug 29 20:19:58 so its a bit like the worries ppl have about 4k sectors on harddrives now... Aug 29 20:20:13 nox-: sort-of, yes. Aug 29 20:20:16 slonopotamus: well here in gentoo i can tell it to remove hal from it... it worked, but then i decided to remake my netbook and haven't had since then the motivation to go again to 1.8 ^^'' Aug 29 20:20:26 Anyway, the jmicron ones are essentially a shitload of mmc/sd in striped raid-0 :) Aug 29 20:20:40 nox-: my x25-m g2 has 512B Aug 29 20:20:41 which is why they were crap Aug 29 20:20:50 mikki-kun, it lies Aug 29 20:20:55 everything lies Aug 29 20:20:56 mikki-kun, internal blocksize i meant Aug 29 20:21:11 (some 4k harddrives also lie btw) Aug 29 20:21:25 hm, may i ask how i can look that up? Aug 29 20:21:31 so i can report what mine says Aug 29 20:21:42 it's usually considered proprietary information Aug 29 20:22:07 ShadowJK: it's a shame that HDs are still at $.2 per gig, or might just jump the gun Aug 29 20:23:20 Anyway, what x25-m does internally is something like: when host writes blocks 2, 98, 37, 4, x25-m internally writes 9,10,11,12.. and obviously keeps a table so it knows which sectors to read when host wants to read stuff.. Aug 29 20:23:37 crashanddie: Well... Aug 29 20:23:52 lcuk, it? is? Aug 29 20:23:52 crashanddie: It doesn't matter at some point, if it's big enough. Aug 29 20:24:12 it's never tomorrow anyways :P Aug 29 20:24:14 crashanddie: I'm about to setup a couple of low-power laptops with 4G 'SSD' Aug 29 20:24:19 I'd have a small-ish OS ssdrive, and big harddrive for "media" Aug 29 20:24:30 SpeedEvil: sure, i'd just like to have something above 200gig (200gig is the bare minimum on a everyday laptop anyway) under $300 Aug 29 20:24:31 (really SD in a adaptor) Aug 29 20:24:39 * ShadowJK sleeps Aug 29 20:24:46 ShadowJK: doesn't really work on a laptop, does it? Aug 29 20:24:50 hmm, w00t_ ping? Aug 29 20:25:09 * crashanddie waves at MohammadAG51 Aug 29 20:25:11 ShadowJK: don't forget the decent RAM buffers in decent SSD Aug 29 20:25:18 * MohammadAG51 waves at crashanddie Aug 29 20:25:31 starting school tomorrow, you won't see me a lot here :( Aug 29 20:25:37 what is actually the internal blocksize? Aug 29 20:25:41 wut?? Aug 29 20:25:47 MohammadAG51, I think tonight I am going to sit back in bed and write some code Aug 29 20:25:48 MohammadAG51: good luck mate Aug 29 20:26:00 MohammadAG51: which year/section? Aug 29 20:26:12 12th year, last one Aug 29 20:26:14 MohammadAG51: that's unacceptable Aug 29 20:26:16 mikki-kun: ~128K Aug 29 20:26:22 DocScrutinizer, at one point I did the math and concluded the size of such a mapping table was same as the declared ram size of the ssd.. Aug 29 20:26:22 MohammadAG51: specialising in? Aug 29 20:26:30 MohammadAG51: no university after that? Aug 29 20:26:38 so it probably doesn't buffer as much as you'd think Aug 29 20:26:45 still haven't decided what I'm going to do Aug 29 20:26:55 but yeah.. I probably should Aug 29 20:27:03 get a least a smallish degree Aug 29 20:27:05 well when it buffers the table plus one or two blocks that's enough Aug 29 20:27:10 crashanddie: If structured right, you can put it in flash. Aug 29 20:27:10 like a bachelor's or something Aug 29 20:27:20 crashanddie: largely Aug 29 20:27:26 SpeedEvil: eh? Aug 29 20:27:27 this is high school mate Aug 29 20:27:31 not uni :P Aug 29 20:27:40 MohammadAG51: well, the year after is uni, right? Aug 29 20:27:45 yes Aug 29 20:27:45 oops Aug 29 20:27:55 MohammadAG51: start thinking about it Aug 29 20:28:00 ShadowJK: f structured right, you can put it in flash. Aug 29 20:28:07 MohammadAG51: look into international studies, they make studying very fun Aug 29 20:28:43 crashanddie, I'm looking forward to Uni outside of IL :P Aug 29 20:28:48 this country's dead Aug 29 20:28:51 night life sucks Aug 29 20:28:55 MohammadAG51: erasmus, crossroads, via domitia, there's plenty of funds and scholarships you can apply for Aug 29 20:29:13 but you need to do it early and soon -- it's burocracy, takes decades Aug 29 20:30:32 MohammadAG51: UK has good unis, germany has too. France only if you can stand it, and then sweden or denmark. I wouldn't recommend the US, way too far and very little international scholarships Aug 29 20:31:15 ok folks, what does flaher-3.5 -b do exactly? out with it now Aug 29 20:31:24 hmm, well, studying in Europe shouldn't be hard, I'm not passing the arabic crap Aug 29 20:31:31 MNZ: rtfm Aug 29 20:31:41 crashanddie, that's the problem, I rtfm Aug 29 20:31:50 doing my final GCEs this year Aug 29 20:32:05 fm = boot. IRL = instant brick Aug 29 20:32:07 MNZ: rtfm again Aug 29 20:32:14 it boots for me Aug 29 20:32:25 but I use 3.0 Aug 29 20:32:30 ~debian MNZ Aug 29 20:32:30 * infobot tells MNZ to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Aug 29 20:33:03 :S I RTFMed. More than once. Also, now flashing with the stock kernel and still bricked. WTF? Aug 29 20:33:19 if you can flash, it ain't bricked Aug 29 20:33:20 MNZ: it adds a command that will be passed to the kernel Aug 29 20:33:24 brick = broken NOLO Aug 29 20:33:31 crashanddie: that never works tho Aug 29 20:33:43 can't nolo be fixed with a cold flash? Aug 29 20:33:46 just because the kernel/bootloader is broken Aug 29 20:33:54 guys, how do i identify what repo does a package belong to? Aug 29 20:33:58 MohammadAG51: sure, but can you even cold flash N900? Aug 29 20:34:02 yes Aug 29 20:34:06 MohammadAG51: cold flash means you wire direct to the flash chip Aug 29 20:34:12 i know Aug 29 20:34:12 incredible, N900 got so fsckdup by unknown reason, I had to remove battery to 'unbrick' it. Would really feel like a brick, with no reaction to power button. Funny enough it reacted to USB charger plugin Aug 29 20:34:14 I doubt it's exposed Aug 29 20:34:26 err, flasher-3.5 --cold-flash Aug 29 20:34:40 i tried "apt-cache depends frogatto-engine" and it gave me a list of packages. How do i identify what repo they belong to? Aug 29 20:35:09 MohammadAG51: hum, sounds like a serial port thing Aug 29 20:35:15 on a totally unrelated note though, MohammadAG51 what ALs are you doing? Aug 29 20:35:25 trumee, that's the key question to understand deb Aug 29 20:35:26 MohammadAG51: I destroyed my N810 battery trying to get to its serial port Aug 29 20:35:59 luke-jr, could be, but... -U, --usb-device=ARG Specify USB device to use (bus:device address) Aug 29 20:36:04 slonopotamus: i am more of a gentoo ebuild guy than a deb guy :) Aug 29 20:36:11 huh Aug 29 20:36:11 MohammadAG51: that's not for cold flahs Aug 29 20:36:19 * DocScrutinizer pokes crashanddie and glares. rogue sw?? Aug 29 20:36:22 MNZ, err, ALs? :) Aug 29 20:36:33 gentooers occupying #maemo Aug 29 20:36:46 slonopotamus: Maemo is dead. Gentoo naturally conquers all. Aug 29 20:37:17 MohammadAG51, AL == A Level == GCE. Or what do you guys call it there? Aug 29 20:37:22 trumee: in case you missed it, Gentoo requires R&D mode for now ☹ Aug 29 20:37:22 luke-jr, who's next, meego? :) Aug 29 20:37:30 oh, sorry, we don't use the term AL :P Aug 29 20:37:35 i tried "apt-cache showpkg" but i guess it lists all the versions instead of just installed version. Aug 29 20:37:35 slonopotamus: they won't know what hit them! Aug 29 20:37:51 :D Aug 29 20:38:01 trumee, if the package is installed: apt-cache policy foo Aug 29 20:38:01 Biology Physics Chemistry, Core maths and Stats (afaik one A level), as well as arabic Aug 29 20:38:09 nox-: thanks Aug 29 20:39:01 nox-, have you tried that? Aug 29 20:39:10 luke-jr: does nitdroid need R&D mode too? if not, why does gentoo? Aug 29 20:39:12 I can't see myself compiling on each installation of an app :P Aug 29 20:39:16 nox-, it shows only part of the url Aug 29 20:39:18 meh. so I managed to get the phone into vibrator mode again Aug 29 20:39:30 trumee, it depends on how the dev makes priorities Aug 29 20:39:48 for example, I'm not interested in fixing it atm on NITUbuntu Aug 29 20:40:00 i'm interested in getting ofono working Aug 29 20:40:00 trumee: no idea Aug 29 20:40:03 MohammadAG51, that prevents you from running every thing you see on the web though :) Aug 29 20:40:13 vibrator mode = boot -> vibrate -> reboot. Good for..err..vibrating :/ Aug 29 20:40:15 trumee: the stupid watchdog kills Gentoo w/o Aug 29 20:40:22 slonopotamus, ah hm, have to look in sources.list then too Aug 29 20:40:30 luke-jr, scripts in init to fix it Aug 29 20:40:44 MohammadAG51: init doesn't get a chance to start Aug 29 20:40:51 o_O Aug 29 20:40:58 it's still waiting on udev probing Aug 29 20:41:09 nox-, for maemo repos, it doesn't show enough to understand which of extras-* it is Aug 29 20:41:28 hm ok :( Aug 29 20:41:30 I suppose udev can be configured to do it, but then it's a close call Aug 29 20:41:30 err Aug 29 20:41:37 luke-jr, wait Aug 29 20:41:51 slonopotamus: no Aug 29 20:41:52 luke-jr, on n8x0 we were kicking wd in linuxrc Aug 29 20:42:08 slonopotamus: on N8x0, we had an initfs with BME Aug 29 20:42:24 MNZ: Flash eMMC, *DO NOT BOOT*, flash rootfs Aug 29 20:42:29 luke-jr, yeah, but still, linuxrc has smth wrt wd Aug 29 20:42:40 well, it should be done in a way that kernel inits hardware and keeps it running Aug 29 20:42:41 slonopotamus: not the one I wrote for N900 :P Aug 29 20:42:53 untill userland is ready to take over Aug 29 20:42:56 luke-jr, /usr/sbin/dsmetool --root-mounted Aug 29 20:43:09 slonopotamus: no DSME Aug 29 20:43:10 DocScrutinizer, I was thinking rootfs flash first to see if it will boot? besides I didn't mess with anything except the kernel, this shouldn't be happening :@ Aug 29 20:43:55 MNZ flashing eMMC after boot of rootfs will "brick" Aug 29 20:44:01 luke-jr, afair, that tells dsme to start a thing that'll kick wd each N secs Aug 29 20:44:08 slonopotamus: there is no DSME Aug 29 20:44:36 luke-jr, so you need some other kind of a kicker Aug 29 20:44:46 nox-: "apt-get policy" doesnt mention that package came from extras-devel? Aug 29 20:45:09 slonopotamus: WD is stopped untill first kick Aug 29 20:45:27 jacekowski, doesn't kernel kick it? Aug 29 20:45:29 DocScrutinizer, what? but my eMMC is intact! I just flashed with a new kernel I built, it didn't boot Aug 29 20:45:32 slonopotamus: listen to jacekowski Aug 29 20:45:40 jacekowski: not so Aug 29 20:45:42 i want to find out whether an installed package came from extras-devel or not? Aug 29 20:45:44 jacekowski, until userspace is working Aug 29 20:45:50 DocScrutinizer: why? he is wrong :P Aug 29 20:46:00 no he's not Aug 29 20:46:16 WD is killing the system before it even starts the boot process Aug 29 20:46:26 luke-jr: that WD has like 120s timeout Aug 29 20:46:28 the only question is WHO is actually kicking the hw wd Aug 29 20:46:38 jacekowski: so boot to where it reboots Aug 29 20:46:53 DocScrutinizer: must be NOLO Aug 29 20:47:10 luke-jr: that's absolute nonsense. How would the system ever boot then? Aug 29 20:47:14 DocScrutinizer: nfc Aug 29 20:47:23 slonopotamus: i want to find out whether an installed package came from extras-devel or not? Aug 29 20:47:25 BME is fast? Aug 29 20:47:25 hmm Aug 29 20:47:30 DocScrutinizer: he might be right Aug 29 20:47:34 iirc there was wd code in nolo Aug 29 20:47:38 let me just verify it Aug 29 20:47:45 regarding NOLO he might be right Aug 29 20:48:08 but running nolo is a booted up device, at least from my POV Aug 29 20:48:09 DocScrutinizer: "boot process" as in init scripts Aug 29 20:48:37 yep Aug 29 20:48:43 nolo kicks watchdog Aug 29 20:48:48 I suppose maybe I could have linuxrc kick the WD one more time before it starts /sbin/init Aug 29 20:49:06 trumee, fella gentooer, i have no idea how the hell this damn apt is supposed to be used. to me, it's totally broken and lacking even basic functionality (like --depclean) Aug 29 20:49:35 slonopotamus: no worries Aug 29 20:50:01 jacekowski: yep, and flasher --nowatchdog (or whatever it's called) tells NOLO not to do that Aug 29 20:50:06 and no, apt-get autoremove is broken too. Aug 29 20:50:10 that's the whole simple story Aug 29 20:50:30 question is Aug 29 20:50:41 DocScrutinizer: problem is that requires R&D mode which kills battery life Aug 29 20:50:42 is it good idea for bootloader to kick watchdog Aug 29 20:51:00 quick question, what's fiasco? Aug 29 20:51:03 hmm, question: WHY Aug 29 20:51:10 MNZ: combined image Aug 29 20:51:11 why R&D mode kills battery life btw? Aug 29 20:51:16 slonopotamus: it doesn't Aug 29 20:51:18 slonopotamus: it forces keyboard light on constantly Aug 29 20:51:24 slonopotamus: well flashing keyboard leds maybe Aug 29 20:51:27 ~dict fiasco Aug 29 20:51:29 luke-jr: that can be disabled Aug 29 20:51:30 oh my Aug 29 20:51:31 Dictionary 'fiasco' (1 of 3): abortion, bafflement, balk, betrayed hope, blasted expectation, blighted hope, blow, bollix, botch, buffet, bungle, comedown, cruel disappointment, dash, dashed hope, defeat, disappointment, disaster, discomfiture, disillusionment, dissatisfaction, failure, fallen countenance, fizzle, flop, flunk, foiling, foozle, forlorn hope, frustration, hash, hope deferred, letdown, mess, mirage, muddle, setback, sore ... Aug 29 20:51:32 jacekowski: can it? Aug 29 20:51:34 ~fiasco Aug 29 20:51:35 L4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL: http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/ Aug 29 20:51:45 O.l Aug 29 20:51:52 is that fiasco related? Aug 29 20:51:55 no Aug 29 20:52:09 but i was just wondering what's under that factoid Aug 29 20:52:10 ah... I was using the -k option with the image instead of -F ...... that's why it wasn't working Aug 29 20:52:21 so -k is for...? Aug 29 20:52:25 a kernel image Aug 29 20:52:26 MNZ: -k just loads a kernel temporarily IIRC Aug 29 20:52:35 maybe requires another option Aug 29 20:52:46 luke-jr: (forces kbd light) that's easily switched off by sysnode Aug 29 20:52:52 jacekowski: which WD is it, do you know? Aug 29 20:53:04 DocScrutinizer: how? Aug 29 20:53:18 DocScrutinizer: note the forced kbd light is not something userspace Aug 29 20:53:18 DocScrutinizer, is jrbme ready yet? :P Aug 29 20:53:25 and I would guess not kernelspace Aug 29 20:53:38 luke-jr: note sysfs is also something not userspace Aug 29 20:53:40 :p Aug 29 20:54:08 DocScrutinizer: so this is some non-standard kernel feature? Aug 29 20:54:25 luke-jr: 32khz one Aug 29 20:54:29 jacekowski: ? Aug 29 20:54:36 luke-jr: is sysfs content anything standard anyway? Aug 29 20:54:43 DocScrutinizer: yes. Aug 29 20:54:57 jacekowski: twl4030_wdt or watchdog? Aug 29 20:54:58 some new stuff for my n800... Aug 29 20:54:58 so is this particular sysnode then Aug 29 20:54:59 >>> Emerging binary (3 of 66) sys-apps/coreutils-8.5 Aug 29 20:56:31 http://www.nu.nl/gadgets/2321918/progressie-android-nokia-telefoons.html (while about android it the first time I see the n900 mentioned on that normal news site) Aug 29 20:57:08 telefoons... :P Aug 29 20:57:18 luke-jr: you're so cute, why don't you simply look at schematics, find out about which GPIO enables that switch which enables the KBD flickering, and then grep kernel source to find where in sysfs to switch it? Aug 29 20:58:06 luke-jr: twl4030 Aug 29 20:58:20 DocScrutinizer: I wasn't aware the schematics were freely available Aug 29 20:58:26 and watchdog should be it's alias anyways Aug 29 20:58:37 (fiasco) iirc the *original* meaning is flask Aug 29 20:58:43 jacekowski: no, they're different watchdogs… Aug 29 20:58:46 (italian) Aug 29 20:58:53 but Aug 29 20:59:11 that watchdog can be disabled Aug 29 20:59:22 i can confirm, fiasco means flask Aug 29 20:59:27 it also means failure though Aug 29 20:59:32 (in italian) Aug 29 20:59:48 it also means crisis. at least to me. Aug 29 21:01:05 one thing's for sure - Nokia marketing droids' name finding *is* a fiasko Aug 29 21:04:21 (well, the idea to call a company/product anything like *moko also wasn't that brilliant - but at least less obvious to german/US dudes not knowing Spanish) Aug 29 21:05:14 (what does moko mean?) Aug 29 21:05:31 something you usually find in your nose Aug 29 21:05:40 hair :O Aug 29 21:06:10 ooh Aug 29 21:06:11 i get it Aug 29 21:06:32 well, at least it's open Aug 29 21:06:39 :d Aug 29 21:10:59 ~ping Aug 29 21:11:00 ~pong Aug 29 21:11:44 ~botsnack Aug 29 21:11:44 kerio: thanks Aug 29 21:11:45 is it normal that gps takes a long time to locate without internet locator-thingy? Aug 29 21:11:48 yw Aug 29 21:12:04 MarcusM: yup Aug 29 21:12:15 even after like 5min it havent found anything Aug 29 21:12:30 without phonet running and registered *and* without an active internet connection it will be incredibly slow Aug 29 21:12:39 with both of those, it takes 10s, tops Aug 29 21:13:54 yup, internet makes it alot faster, but how much data does that use? Aug 29 21:14:13 hello everyone Aug 29 21:14:25 hi Aug 29 21:14:33 for some reason the media player doesn't seem to be indexing new ogg files that I drop into the music folder Aug 29 21:14:36 any ideas? Aug 29 21:15:07 have you installed support for ogg? Aug 29 21:15:11 yes Aug 29 21:15:14 i wonder if you could tell it to remember the last gps position and start again from there if no notwork... Aug 29 21:15:19 i can play the audio when i open it via the file manager Aug 29 21:15:28 hmm okay Aug 29 21:15:40 well, kicking both watchdogs in linuxrc didn't help at all Aug 29 21:15:47 jacekowski: ☹ Aug 29 21:16:24 what is a bootreason? Aug 29 21:16:31 nfc? Aug 29 21:16:34 nox-: that's how it's supposed to work, but obviously there's some bug in that Aug 29 21:17:01 is there a way to tell the media player to reindex the music? Aug 29 21:17:46 DocScrutinizer51, well here it starts with a position somewhere around the center of germany then, maybe it gets that from the 3g tower or something? Aug 29 21:17:49 it's tracker Aug 29 21:18:14 yep Aug 29 21:19:51 without the NC from GSM indicating the country it starts with exactly my old coords but obviously those don't make it through cellmo to GPS Aug 29 21:20:49 unfortunately, I'm not sure I have enough interest in figuring out AGPS :P Aug 29 21:20:55 I wouldn't be surprised to learn that's a bug i cellmo FW Aug 29 21:22:31 actually, I suspect AGPS might be entirely modem side Aug 29 21:22:46 /I/ certainly don't get a fix under 10 seconds every time Aug 29 21:22:52 any ideas on fixing this tracker issue? Aug 29 21:23:16 luke-jr: (A cellmo) ack, me too Aug 29 21:24:06 with modem on 3G, 6 seconds to fix Aug 29 21:24:14 note, in both cases the N900 was connected to my Wifi Aug 29 21:24:40 yeah it doesnt need 3g data link, wifi works too Aug 29 21:24:41 josephnexus: check tracker's config file Aug 29 21:24:54 where would I find that? Aug 29 21:25:28 i said that long time ago Aug 29 21:25:31 somewhere in user's home iirc Aug 29 21:25:33 agps is done in cellmo only Aug 29 21:25:54 jacekowski: of course :-) Aug 29 21:26:31 jacekowski, so you mean it cant work without 3g/gsm packet data connection? Aug 29 21:27:00 yep Aug 29 21:27:03 jacekowski: it's quite consequent as same modem and gps is used on phones without a userland system outside cellmo Aug 29 21:27:26 but that would mean as well that cellmo can have two connections at the same time Aug 29 21:27:28 huh? i think i definetely *got* a gps fix without an active connection and an active sim Aug 29 21:27:29 hm i thought i had see w/o wifi getting a fix takes even longer that with Aug 29 21:27:35 than with Aug 29 21:27:41 kerio: it can get a fix, but not agps fix Aug 29 21:27:45 oh, i see Aug 29 21:27:52 one normal connection for phone and one for modem itself Aug 29 21:28:08 nah, can't be Aug 29 21:28:17 josephnexus, whats up with your index? Aug 29 21:28:18 otherwise, why would it ask you to connect Aug 29 21:28:25 just to connect twice? Aug 29 21:28:28 lcuck, it just isn't updating Aug 29 21:28:32 nox-: I guess modem will acept alltternative internet than 3G, or it maybe even gets agps data from bts without any internet data involved Aug 29 21:28:36 it shows stuff from before, but nothing new that I add Aug 29 21:28:45 nox-: wrong Aug 29 21:29:03 hm Aug 29 21:29:52 jacekowski: I suspect this is why some N900 owners have been billed for tethering Aug 29 21:30:01 because in reality, N900 *is* tethering Aug 29 21:30:05 josephnexus, try this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42088 Aug 29 21:30:28 DocScrutinizer51: w/ only WiFi, no AGPS Aug 29 21:30:40 tethering? Aug 29 21:30:41 to what? Aug 29 21:30:43 to rapuyama? Aug 29 21:31:01 it doesn't make sense Aug 29 21:31:20 kerio: the tablet tethers to the phone Aug 29 21:31:25 oh Aug 29 21:31:26 via phonet Aug 29 21:32:01 I don't see that Aug 29 21:32:06 it's not a phone, it's a modem :| Aug 29 21:32:22 kerio: modems don't do voice Aug 29 21:32:39 voicemodems do Aug 29 21:32:50 haha Aug 29 21:32:54 i had a serial modem that also did fax and voice Aug 29 21:33:04 yep there were those... Aug 29 21:33:10 kerio: then it isn't a mere modem Aug 29 21:33:19 it's still not a phone :< Aug 29 21:33:54 stupid carriers shouldnt care about where data goes to/from, only how much Aug 29 21:33:58 kerio: it's running the same thing Nokia low-end phones do, just w/o a LCD hooked to it Aug 29 21:34:12 nox-: why should they, if that means they can bill you more? Aug 29 21:34:19 (i still don't get why people *accept* that kind of thing) Aug 29 21:34:36 yah :/ Aug 29 21:34:40 anyway, having a n900 completely justifies you for *any* kind of traffic Aug 29 21:34:42 kerio: that's why capitalism is evil Aug 29 21:34:56 kerio: does it? Aug 29 21:35:02 [16:31:52] kerio: it's running the same thing Nokia low-end phones do, just w/o a LCD hooked to it Aug 29 21:35:03 kerio: well, on my old £35 contract for iphone ( and now £25 for n900 ) i could download as much data as i wanted Aug 29 21:35:04 that was BS btw Aug 29 21:35:11 and O2 never charged me more Aug 29 21:35:28 kerio: over here in the US, I hear AT&T doesn't allow N900, and T-Mobile doesn't allow N900 on PAYG data Aug 29 21:35:35 luke-jr: then they suck Aug 29 21:35:43 luke-jr: of course it does Aug 29 21:35:43 kerio: and they're the only options Aug 29 21:35:59 eww Aug 29 21:36:04 i mean, if you download a torrent how can they be sure you tethered a computer to your n900 Aug 29 21:36:10 every other service is CDMA or iDEN Aug 29 21:36:12 transmission works perfectly fine Aug 29 21:36:19 luke-jr: you live in the US Aug 29 21:36:21 i feel ya Aug 29 21:36:23 :( Aug 29 21:36:26 luke-jr: well, here nobody would ever think about paying more than £40/mo for a phone Aug 29 21:36:34 (also yeah, capitalism sucks) Aug 29 21:37:01 hmm, c files, using fopen(filename) can I make it so that it will try to create a new file, but fail and return NULL if the file exists. Aug 29 21:37:19 and checking if it exists first then opening it is not atomic Aug 29 21:37:25 lcuk: I think so Aug 29 21:37:26 so i would rather avoid that Aug 29 21:37:30 rtfm? Aug 29 21:37:35 lcuk: open it as... c? Aug 29 21:37:36 i have done Aug 29 21:37:37 twice Aug 29 21:37:52 join #meego Aug 29 21:38:09 lcuk: you have to stat first Aug 29 21:38:12 flags are "r,r+,w,w+,a,a+" Aug 29 21:38:24 jacekowski, so it cannot be an atomic op in linux Aug 29 21:38:32 i used to use that kind of syntax in windows Aug 29 21:38:35 lcuk: use open(2) and fdopen Aug 29 21:38:43 where i could open with a lock Aug 29 21:38:52 so that it would fail if someone on the other side of the network opened it Aug 29 21:38:52 lcuk: open(2) has O_EXCL Aug 29 21:39:02 ooh, looking Aug 29 21:39:14 "O_EXCL Ensure that this call creates the file: if this flag is specified in conjunction with O_CREAT, and pathname already exists, then open() will fail." Aug 29 21:39:27 awesome Aug 29 21:39:30 thanks luke-jr Aug 29 21:39:38 someone forgot to read the man? Aug 29 21:39:45 crashanddie: not quite Aug 29 21:39:47 wrong man ;) Aug 29 21:39:58 he needs to use 2 functions instead of 1 Aug 29 21:40:10 because C doesn't support this feature Aug 29 21:40:26 only POSIX Aug 29 21:40:43 (fopen is C, whereas open and fdopen are POSIX) Aug 29 21:41:50 on the bright side, fdopen doesn't require a syscall I think Aug 29 21:41:57 just open Aug 29 21:50:47 (tethering) there's no reasonable way to tell if you do that (or your smartphone does) Aug 29 21:51:10 and ther's no second connection Aug 29 21:51:23 ttl Aug 29 21:51:43 if you see packets send with two different ttls then it's most likely tethering Aug 29 21:52:14 there is Aug 29 21:52:22 if carrier says 'tethering' he actually means 'using other ports than the ones supposed to be possible for the device you announced' Aug 29 21:52:28 ack, I was about to suggest the same Aug 29 21:56:14 DocScrutinizer: so... what do they do with... any phone that can be programmed? Aug 29 21:57:38 no idea, here we got no such insane plan fineprint. probably they'll charge you accordingly Aug 29 22:08:26 is it not possible to run 'screen' as "user"? i get a permission error Aug 29 22:10:24 Cannot make directory '/var/run/screen': Permission denied Aug 29 22:10:47 i get that as well Aug 29 22:11:04 seemed to work if i ran screen as root, then exited and runned as user Aug 29 22:11:06 dunno why Aug 29 22:11:10 mmm wierd... Aug 29 22:11:10 sudo mkdir /var/run/screen, sudo chmod 0777 /var/run/screen Aug 29 22:11:43 wouldn't that only work temporarly Aug 29 22:11:48 Shadikka: is that normal procedure or is it a hack to make it work? Aug 29 22:11:58 That depends a bit, I'm not sure Aug 29 22:12:10 That's what I'd do as a normal *nix user Aug 29 22:12:15 it's not normal Aug 29 22:12:26 /var/run/screen is where the per-user socket files of screen are stored Aug 29 22:12:40 so if you just create it as root and give everybody write permissions to it, it should work normally afterwards Aug 29 22:12:41 sounds like an oversight in the packaging Aug 29 22:12:49 i use nix in 3-4 machiones at home but i always run screen as nornal user Aug 29 22:12:52 If you run screen as root, it basically does the same thing :P Aug 29 22:13:01 gotcha Aug 29 22:13:22 i dunno i also cand sudo apt-get as user..before reflashing i remember i used to do that Aug 29 22:14:12 error i get: Aug 29 22:14:14 Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/apt-get update' as root on Nokia-N900. Aug 29 22:14:36 Now that's curious. Aug 29 22:14:45 befoer reflashing yesterday i could use sudo i think..am i just imagining? Aug 29 22:14:52 zeltak, you have sudo gainroot? Aug 29 22:14:55 (rootshj Aug 29 22:14:56 yup Aug 29 22:15:03 -j+) Aug 29 22:15:20 Some sudoers oversight? Aug 29 22:15:22 you can edit sudoers with visudo, but dunno if it's the right way to do Aug 29 22:15:45 it isnt (on n900) Aug 29 22:15:46 read in the wiki NOT TO DO IT NO MATTER WHAT ..lol Aug 29 22:15:55 the visudo thing Aug 29 22:16:20 ah, ok. :p Aug 29 22:16:26 i did it anyway. :D Aug 29 22:16:26 i need a really tough pen driven a4 size slate. something that can survive living between my lap and keyboard Aug 29 22:16:48 but i do pretty much things i shouldn't do Aug 29 22:16:56 (i've also changed defaultshell) Aug 29 22:17:20 Should have been around in the good old days. Aug 29 22:17:23 yeah really wanted bash but was warned not to do that as well :) Aug 29 22:17:24 That used to brick your device. Aug 29 22:17:26 coping with bits dropped on it and work with high resolution pen Aug 29 22:17:59 * FIQ|n900 edited passwd manually to have /bin/bash and also added "user ALL=NOPASSWD: ALL" in sudoers Aug 29 22:18:00 so you guys dont have sudo issues etc..? wondering if i shoud reflash again...:( Aug 29 22:18:38 i'm ready for boot fails already, so i'm fine Aug 29 22:18:40 :) Aug 29 22:19:13 FIQ|n900: out of curiosity whats your steps on boot fails ;-)? Aug 29 22:19:40 plugging in usb cable, hold down u, reflash! Aug 29 22:20:10 i did that 20mins after i got my new N900 Aug 29 22:20:26 was very tired and forgot the major rule to edit sudoers with visudo Aug 29 22:20:48 managed to break it. :P Aug 29 22:21:03 how do you backup and more important restore? Aug 29 22:21:18 i used the build in program to backup...that sucked.. Aug 29 22:21:25 reflash just fiddle with rootfs Aug 29 22:21:40 and my important data is on home and mydocs Aug 29 22:21:42 i restored through it and it didnt restore stuff correctly.. Aug 29 22:21:43 so i was fine Aug 29 22:21:59 why did you edit /etc/passwd instead of adding /bin/bash to /etc/shells Aug 29 22:22:01 :| Aug 29 22:22:10 yeah i tried flashing just /root but it screwed up apt for some reason so has to reflash emmc :( Aug 29 22:22:33 kerio, because i dunno how shells should be specifiecd Aug 29 22:22:51 and i was to lazy to google up Aug 29 22:23:09 i know i will fuck up the device sooner or later, nn telling Aug 29 22:23:22 i've devel on all the time too Aug 29 22:23:28 so in terms of root..i just install rootsh right? there is something in the wiki about "sudser",,i guess that obselete right? Aug 29 22:23:33 any more info you want that you will not like? Aug 29 22:24:05 zeltak, tha's the normal wa yin maemo yes Aug 29 22:24:18 kk cool Aug 29 22:24:44 so i still dont get it why my sudo is fucked..thats the only thing i installed (and openssh) Aug 29 22:25:01 what's wrong with it? Aug 29 22:25:21 does it whining about you need to specify pw? Aug 29 22:25:30 because, that's normal Aug 29 22:26:08 no i cant use sudo at all as user Aug 29 22:26:24 FIQ|n900: for example if i issue: sudo apt-get update Aug 29 22:26:34 i get: Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/apt-get update' as root on Nokia-N900. Aug 29 22:26:40 Oh Aug 29 22:26:46 ok Aug 29 22:26:56 just type `root' Aug 29 22:27:12 then do the apt-get in the root shell Aug 29 22:27:27 yeah i can get root but i like to use sudo as user to quikcly launch stuff Aug 29 22:27:34 but if thats normal then ok Aug 29 22:27:43 i mean if thats how it works on all n900 Aug 29 22:28:56 i thought i could use sudo tu launch progs as root or quikcly edit config files Aug 29 22:29:06 (like in ubuntu etc..) Aug 29 22:29:56 * FIQ|n900 got that functionality on his old N900 randomly, doesn't know how that happened (that was without visudo-ing then) Aug 29 22:30:20 heheh yeah i remember i could do it before the reflash..thats what drives me mad.. Aug 29 22:31:12 ugh Aug 29 22:31:27 why does bash come with an ugly PS1 D: Aug 29 22:31:37 -bash-2.05b$ Aug 29 22:34:36 Shadikka: the chmod thing dosent stick after a reboot? is there a way to make it stick? Aug 29 22:42:45 Folks I did it! IT VERKS! I got hardware effects (3D effect only for now...) working on the TLV320AIC34 in the n900! Aug 29 22:43:12 ! Aug 29 22:44:10 Woo! Aug 29 22:44:14 Congrats! Aug 29 22:44:23 ideed :) Aug 29 22:44:30 indeed even Aug 29 22:44:31 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Audio_Codec - linky Aug 29 22:44:50 Also - this is proof of concept that you can do auido filters on it too Aug 29 22:45:53 SpeedEvil, yes that's where I started, and on to the TI website. I got 3D(easiest one to do) implemented as an alsa mixer control Aug 29 22:45:59 Wait, seriously, this has a hardware equalizer and they're burning 15% CPU to make PulseAudio do it? Aug 29 22:46:13 derf, working on it ;) Aug 29 22:46:23 derf: sssssh Aug 29 22:46:26 don't spoil it Aug 29 22:46:40 derf: yes. Aug 29 22:46:48 derf: Also FMradio is shitty for that reason. Aug 29 22:46:54 i still don't get it Aug 29 22:47:01 derf: FMradio has no good reason at all to go through the CPU Aug 29 22:47:02 who the hell thought that using pulseaudio on a phone would be a good idea Aug 29 22:47:31 SpeedEvil, i read somewhere that it was to protect the speaker from too much bass... Aug 29 22:47:35 heh derf yup Aug 29 22:47:39 FM radio use should go from ~10h to ~100h if that was changed Aug 29 22:47:41 speakers even Aug 29 22:47:45 maybe ~50h actually Aug 29 22:47:52 the speakers suck anyway :< Aug 29 22:48:24 Actually I think I can get the FM radio routing done pretty quickly, it's the equalizer stuff that's pretty hard to grasp for me :( Aug 29 22:48:50 MNZ: \o/ Aug 29 22:49:09 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management mnz - for a simple tool to show power usage. Aug 29 22:49:11 MNZ: i love you <3 Aug 29 22:49:19 * MNZ does a happy dance Aug 29 22:49:23 I'm polishing it and going to patch and upload it to extras. Aug 29 22:49:31 SpeedEvil, sweet Aug 29 22:49:38 hold on, how can fm radio skip the cpu? Aug 29 22:49:43 * kerio doesn't get it Aug 29 22:49:50 kerio: It routes through the codec chip Aug 29 22:50:09 yeah but then you have no software control and no other audio Aug 29 22:50:12 kerio: It goes in one A/D, out the other D/A through the internal digital mixers and switches. Aug 29 22:50:45 MNZ: that's really great news :-)) Aug 29 22:51:50 DocScrutinizer, Indeed it is! I couldn't believe it when I got it working :D Aug 29 22:51:58 Does the kernel-power or built in kernel use an initrd for the N900? Aug 29 22:52:00 Now I need help from people familiar with mafw so settings can be easily accesible to the user Aug 29 22:52:17 *cough* Aug 29 22:52:32 :( Am I going to have to dig through mafw ? please say no Aug 29 22:52:52 :-x Aug 29 22:53:25 where's me shovel Aug 29 22:53:50 yay Aug 29 22:53:58 /dcc send MNZ shovel Aug 29 22:54:19 MNZ: you got a pulseaudio working without any EQ? Aug 29 22:54:32 he got an EQ working without any pulseaudio :D Aug 29 22:54:38 anywho, the equalizer thing is going to take some time.... I can't figure out the coefficients for the equation yet.... All I can actually implement is preset stuff (Bass boost, treble boost, etc) Aug 29 22:54:46 pupnik, as kerio said :D Aug 29 22:55:06 good job mate Aug 29 22:55:15 so unless someone with a background in DSP steps up, we're gonna settle for the presets Aug 29 22:55:27 moin pupnik :) Aug 29 22:55:33 pupnik, thanks :D Aug 29 22:55:37 i just want pulseaudio to stop eating my cpu time Aug 29 22:55:40 it's valuable :< Aug 29 22:55:55 definitely kerio Aug 29 22:56:17 a volume limiter could be done instead of eq, for some uses Aug 29 22:56:17 wouldn't it be a great idea to kill if if you've sound off Aug 29 22:56:21 maybe not Aug 29 22:56:53 you can bypass it, but you need to watch your volumes Aug 29 22:56:59 pupnik, volume control is already done in hardware Aug 29 22:57:28 (unless PA is doing it in software and just ignoring the alsa controls..... I'm gonna have to look into that) Aug 29 22:57:49 #maemo - working hard to completely discredit Nokia as a serious software company Aug 29 22:58:34 haha Aug 29 22:58:49 MNZ: if you ever do find where PA is doing the EQ, please try disabling it and comparing rough cpu use estimates with it enabled and disabled Aug 29 22:59:06 i'm guessing the eq is taking about 1/2 of PA's cpu time Aug 29 22:59:22 or 1/3 at least Aug 29 22:59:31 pupnik, definitely. Right now I am concentrating on the HW side and exporting stuff through alsa, next step is moving up the stack Aug 29 23:00:05 cool Aug 29 23:00:25 MNZ: alsamixer tells me the hardware volumes are all the way up all the time, but you probably already knew that. Aug 29 23:00:32 nox-: wats news in .de Aug 29 23:01:16 SpacedOut, I've only noticed them move when I change the volume from the status bar Aug 29 23:01:35 Also, try pluging in a headphone and changing volume from the status Aug 29 23:02:09 pupnik, only the usual stuff i think Aug 29 23:02:09 SpacedOut, just so we are clear, you are running "alsamixer -D real" correct? Aug 29 23:03:14 Probably not, anyhow my N900 is down and out for the moment, and I'm trying to reflash the kernel or some such to get it booting again. Aug 29 23:03:41 wait, what Aug 29 23:03:52 pulse reduces the volume of the audio feed but not the hw volume? Aug 29 23:04:00 what the FUCK Aug 29 23:04:21 kerio, done in software :/ yeah, I know, PA rocks Aug 29 23:04:30 there are reasons for that Aug 29 23:04:40 really, reasons? Aug 29 23:04:41 :| Aug 29 23:04:47 what reason could it possibly be Aug 29 23:05:03 independent volume control per application Aug 29 23:06:15 actually I just did a quick test and the hardware volume is changing, both by changing volume from status and from media player Aug 29 23:07:31 in funnier news, trying to change the pulseaudio master volume from alsamixer lags the device :D Aug 29 23:08:57 you have pasuspender installed? Aug 29 23:09:37 pupnik, on the n900, of course not. If you suspend pa you get no call audio :D Aug 29 23:11:05 SpeedEvil, that software power management page will come in handy, thanks Aug 29 23:11:39 pupnik: bite me Aug 29 23:14:31 no offense Aug 29 23:16:10 feel the love Aug 29 23:19:36 pa also has something called flatvolumes - configurable Aug 29 23:19:55 if enabled (default), it'll adjust the relative volume of individual streams to the loudest stream Aug 29 23:20:15 that can cause glitches on volume changes on some drivers Aug 29 23:22:42 it seems to me that audio piping should be done at a low-level with realtime priority Aug 29 23:23:54 pupnik: nah, that would be the sensible thing to do Aug 29 23:25:21 i don't even know what is taking so much cpu time. though there is one hint about buffer underruns requiring a lot of processing to reset Aug 29 23:25:24 MNZ: You've seen the various hardware pages? Aug 29 23:25:56 pupnik, was that how asound used to work Aug 29 23:26:12 SpeedEvil, yeah I skimmed through the ones linked in the wiki. Aug 29 23:26:51 pupnik: the problem with running everything at high priority is well...everything is high priority ;) Aug 29 23:27:05 The audio codec is what caught my eye as why-the-hell-is-this-not-used immediately though Aug 29 23:31:11 MNZ: Because spec-writers don't strart out by reading all of the datasheets Aug 29 23:45:06 SpeedEvil, as far as the audio codec is concerned I think the spec writers have done a good job Aug 29 23:48:50 why? Aug 29 23:49:26 audio stutter is annoying :( Aug 29 23:49:50 technomike_phone: Don't worry, it's fixed. Aug 29 23:51:03 SpeedEvil, because they've summed up the attractive features quite well with little technical details. These wiki pages are meant for users right? not devs? Aug 29 23:52:08 SpeedEvil - still got to wait for the next update unfortunatly :( Aug 29 23:52:46 which could be a long way off Aug 29 23:53:48 MNZ: sorry - what spec writers? Aug 29 23:54:04 MNZ: Oh - I was referring to the n900 software spec writer. Aug 29 23:54:20 Oh, then nvm :D Aug 29 23:54:26 I'm the author of most of category:n900_hardware Aug 29 23:54:36 Any news on possible release time? I know its not announced but maybe someone knows something? Aug 29 23:55:02 Can anyone not comment on the version of software they're running on their phone? Aug 29 23:56:40 SpeedEvil, oooh, I can. Aug 29 23:59:04 .5pot+1egg+2onion+10g oil Aug 29 23:59:06 argh Aug 29 23:59:26 aah, must be a clue as to the release date Aug 30 00:00:02 It was actually a note to myself about the composition of a meal I just ate. Aug 30 00:00:06 To compute calories. Aug 30 00:00:27 About 280Kc Aug 30 00:03:34 Alas more boring johnx - merely a note to myself about the caloric content of the meal I just ate. Aug 30 00:03:37 (~280kc) Aug 30 00:03:54 uh huh. no one really believes that, but good try :P Aug 30 00:05:07 .5 pot = 250g potato (150Kc), 1 egg = 1 small egg (50Kc), 2 onion = 2 small onions (30Kc), 10g oil = 10g of veg oil. (80Kc) Aug 30 00:06:16 * johnx is only pulling your leg :) Aug 30 00:07:26 http://qkwv.com/weight.gif /me is bored. Aug 30 00:07:35 Anybody else hate ESPN? Aug 30 00:07:45 GAN900, I love ESPN8, the ocho Aug 30 00:08:12 I have never to my knowledge watched ESPN. Aug 30 00:08:21 ESPN15 is OK, but the rest is a little weak. Aug 30 00:08:44 GAN900, where else can I see men kicking a soccer ball on fire? or hitting each other with ropes? or racing tractors? Aug 30 00:08:57 Are the men on fire, or the soccer ball? Aug 30 00:09:06 yes Aug 30 00:09:08 Or are they all on some large griddle. Aug 30 00:09:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50jVa25gmWs Aug 30 00:12:03 johnx, I'm just irritated because the ESPN announcers all speak like they've taken repeated blows to the head. Aug 30 00:12:29 GAN900, you know I was referring the spoof on ESPN from the movie dodgeball, right? Aug 30 00:12:54 cause otherwise I can't stand ESPN Aug 30 00:13:09 luckily I don't even get cable, so it's not a problem :) Aug 30 00:21:48 johnx, yes. Aug 30 00:21:51 Great movie. Aug 30 00:22:31 Hey, the local network may not be able to negotiate a renewal with ESPN this year, so it may not be a problem for me any longer. Aug 30 00:22:51 however, if there was a channel that featured squirrel water skiing and tractor races, I might be tempted to look into cable again Aug 30 00:29:34 johnx, ESPN. Aug 30 00:29:41 At least the tractors Aug 30 00:29:47 that's a start Aug 30 00:29:52 (and sometimes lawnmowers) Aug 30 00:30:00 the flaming soccer ball thing would be the clincher Aug 30 00:35:22 johnx, how's that Pandora treating you these days? Aug 30 00:36:00 the wifi was DOA and the nubs wouldn't calibrate. I'm sending it back on monday Aug 30 00:36:14 When did you get it? Aug 30 00:36:36 june, but I hadn't really felt like hacking, so it was a while before I confirmed the wifi was a hardware problem Aug 30 00:39:35 overall, the case actually feels pretty good Aug 30 00:39:49 when I get it back, I hope to really dive into getting meego working properly on it Aug 30 00:56:18 And off to bed. Good night folks! Aug 30 00:57:40 Evening, folks Aug 30 00:58:18 hi jaem Aug 30 00:58:37 My recent build of Qt Creator from Master seems to be calling mad-admin with a switch that doesn't exist in the MADDE version that comes with the last SDK release. Aug 30 00:59:03 Where would I find a newer version? Is it even available? Aug 30 01:00:35 hya...does anyone knows if its possible to activate the system log as in a regular nix machine on the n900? Aug 30 01:00:53 zeltak: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/syslog Aug 30 01:04:02 sweet thx jaem Aug 30 01:23:41 Ah, found it. http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools Aug 30 01:26:17 hya...screen is really drving me mad...anyone know how to run screen as a normal user..i cant get it to run unless im root :( Aug 30 01:26:58 what error message does it give when run as normal user? Aug 30 01:27:47 johnx: Cannot make directory '/var/run/screen': Permission denied Aug 30 01:28:27 as root: mkdir /var/runscreen Aug 30 01:28:32 then try as user again Aug 30 01:28:50 should have read: mkdir /var/run/screen of course :) Aug 30 01:29:23 kk one sec Aug 30 01:31:01 ohh wait i did that already (and of course chmod 0777 /var/run/screen) and it works...BUT..after a reboot it dosent work again.. Aug 30 01:31:18 so add the commands to /etc/rc.local (or similar) Aug 30 01:31:53 ahhh ok mind helping me with that :) Aug 30 01:32:59 is this on an N8x0 or an N900? Aug 30 01:33:49 n900 Aug 30 01:34:12 btw johnx is that normal? is that how all you guys use screen as root? Aug 30 01:34:45 I don't have screen installed right now, but no, on desktop linux the stuff involving /var/run/screen is handled by a script at boot that's part of the screen package Aug 30 01:35:01 and I almost never run screen as root on my desktop Aug 30 01:35:30 so, uhm, second question is: what repo did you find screen in? (can't help you if I don't have it installed) :) Aug 30 01:36:26 hehe thx johnx its from the dev repo Aug 30 01:36:31 deb http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools free non-free Aug 30 01:36:44 thanks Aug 30 01:36:47 * johnx installs screen Aug 30 01:37:21 mm i also have this in the sourcelist: deb-src http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools free non-free Aug 30 01:37:32 but i assume thats part of the dev repo Aug 30 01:37:39 thx johnx btw :) Aug 30 01:38:16 having the -src repository doesn't hurt, but you probably don't need it :) Aug 30 01:38:50 gotcha :) Aug 30 01:45:47 zeltak, well, I just installed screen and tweaked its initscript Aug 30 01:45:56 this should either work or leave my n900 unbootable ;) Aug 30 01:47:02 heheh..thats dramatic :) Aug 30 01:47:21 bummer. it booted, but didn't work Aug 30 01:47:22 hmmm Aug 30 01:47:29 why did you need to tweak the initscript? Aug 30 01:47:40 so it will remake /var/run/screen on boot Aug 30 01:47:41 is /var on a ramdisk on n900? Aug 30 01:47:45 yup Aug 30 01:47:45 what do u generally do when your n900 dosnet boot..u have a hodini escape plane ;-) Aug 30 01:47:48 ah Aug 30 01:48:01 haha Aug 30 01:48:08 wave a dead chicken over it Aug 30 01:48:28 zeltak, nah, I just walk the tightrope without a net. Some people exist to serve as a warning to others :) Aug 30 01:48:46 hehe appriciate it johnx :-) Aug 30 01:49:09 i cant belive almost no one uses screeen..its so usefull Aug 30 01:50:13 i do use it, tho not (yet?) on n900... Aug 30 01:50:44 hmmm, it seems like screen-cleanup is run before the tmpfs is mounted on /var Aug 30 01:51:31 yeah i meant on the n900..its so usefull to have my cli apps runing all the time..i use mc,task,htop etc..i just alias sr to resume screen an voila all apps are there :) Aug 30 01:52:30 johnx: wasnt awaye on my nix machine there was a screen cleanup lol :) Aug 30 01:55:53 hm so far i just left n900's `xterm'(s) open... Aug 30 01:56:12 tho screen may use less ram Aug 30 01:57:18 nox-: and my n900 crashes alot and reboots because of game emulators (..long story..) so screen is very usefull Aug 30 01:57:44 does long story involve overclocking? :> Aug 30 01:57:51 well screen'd apps wont survive a reboot ofc :) Aug 30 01:57:51 nope not at all :) Aug 30 01:58:40 the snes emulator reboots my machine every few minutes..no idea why.. Aug 30 01:58:56 ouch Aug 30 01:59:36 yeah i guess ouch is the right word..even reflashes my machine yesterday to see if that helps..did at first..but now its back to reboothing the n900 after a few minutes of play Aug 30 01:59:57 some app that doesn't behave well with the NES emu? Aug 30 01:59:58 even bought the game gripper to play games (highly recommended btw..) Aug 30 02:00:16 i guess johnx but u cant out my finger on what app.. Aug 30 02:00:34 any progress with the screen btw :)? Aug 30 02:00:41 reflash -> play with emu -> install 1 app -> play with emu -> rinse -> repeat Aug 30 02:00:55 I was thinking about hijacking its init script, but that runs too early Aug 30 02:01:08 then I tested to see if rc.local would be run if it was present: no dice Aug 30 02:01:19 so maybe I'll hack the screen-cleanup initscript and move it to run later Aug 30 02:01:42 heheh cool :) Aug 30 02:02:20 wierd no once asked/cared about this before..quite shocking Aug 30 02:03:11 * johnx shrugs Aug 30 02:03:21 I wonder if there is another screen pkg floating around or something Aug 30 02:03:35 or maybe other people do the fix once and don't reboot all that often Aug 30 02:03:38 mmm intresting havent thought of that Aug 30 02:03:56 (the better package) Aug 30 02:05:36 in fact, playing with this initscript I've probably rebooted more in the last couple minutes than I have in the last 6 months Aug 30 02:05:39 debian squeeze repos have squeeze: 4.0.3-14 Aug 30 02:05:53 screen version - that is Aug 30 02:06:57 mmm jpinx-eeepc thats an idea but i think using debbie for screen is a bit of an overkill isnt it? Aug 30 02:07:12 plus wont i have to leave xtrem open all the time? Aug 30 02:07:56 not sure - I run screen in tty on the eeepc - not got my N900 yet :( Aug 30 02:08:19 lol Aug 30 02:08:43 zeltak: I was thinking more along the lines of would that screen .deb install in meamo? Aug 30 02:08:51 wow i though everybody would use it on the n900 lol Aug 30 02:09:15 i see jpinx-eeepc ..i have no idea... Aug 30 02:09:28 zeltak: I will - my N900 is in the post on it's way ;) Aug 30 02:09:45 the keyboard sucks too much to really use xterm anyway Aug 30 02:10:05 luke-jr: external kbd ? Aug 30 02:10:12 luke-jr, why? Aug 30 02:10:12 I mean, it works if you *have* to, but it's not something you'd want to use often enough to make it worth installing screen Aug 30 02:10:21 jpinx-eeepc: N900 doesn't support external kbds Aug 30 02:10:27 well, not Maemo anyhow Aug 30 02:10:38 johnx: it's just uncomfortable Aug 30 02:10:45 like the N810, but worse Aug 30 02:10:50 * jpinx-eeepc had heard a while ago that the usb hack was possible for an external kbd Aug 30 02:11:13 luke-jr: its not ideal but for shorty time typing its passable.. Aug 30 02:11:14 luke-jr, the key feel is better on the N900 than the N810, IMHO. opinion I guess Aug 30 02:11:17 uh, definitely not USB Aug 30 02:11:28 N900 doesn't have *any* USB host Aug 30 02:11:41 luke-jr, you missed some news. :) Aug 30 02:12:35 o Aug 30 02:13:00 luke-jr: http://thehandheldblog.com/2010/06/07/usb-host-mode-comes-to-the-nokia-n900/comment-page-1/#comment-1992 Aug 30 02:13:06 BTW, I believe I predicted that it was just a software limitation Aug 30 02:13:16 :) Aug 30 02:13:24 johnx: that is obvious IMO Aug 30 02:13:36 luke-jr, some people thought it might not have power hooked up Aug 30 02:13:42 (like the 770) Aug 30 02:13:43 oh well i guess ill run screen as root for the time being..pretty stupid but what can you do...:) Aug 30 02:14:02 zeltak, yeah, for some reason the initscript is being dumb Aug 30 02:14:30 might as well just make a script to run as root that you can run after reboot to set it up Aug 30 02:14:37 yup..its wierd btw..i also cant sudo apt-get after the reflash.. Aug 30 02:15:15 i remember i did before..now i get a permission error..i do have root access (rootsh) but for some reason sudo is screwed... Aug 30 02:15:31 sudo is screwed by default Aug 30 02:15:32 i really wish sometime the n900 acted like any normal nix distro.. Aug 30 02:15:37 so I guess you fixed it last time somehow Aug 30 02:15:49 it's soooo much more normal than android :) Aug 30 02:15:55 ahh so its not a personal thing the n900 has against me johnx lol :-) Aug 30 02:16:07 ahh good to hear :) Aug 30 02:16:20 johnx did you see my question earlier about sudser Aug 30 02:16:25 i had a huge dilema 2 weeks ago between an android and the n900..lol Aug 30 02:16:25 by default, android's busybox is missing mv and cp Aug 30 02:16:30 lcukn900, probably not Aug 30 02:17:57 johnx: should i file a bug somwhere reharding the screen thing? and if so where? Aug 30 02:18:14 zeltak: just install Gentoo Aug 30 02:19:05 zeltak, dunno. the 'tools' repo is kind of a DMZ in a way Aug 30 02:19:09 luke-jr: good one..but i have enough "pain" on my desktop ;-) Aug 30 02:19:22 johnx: i see Aug 30 02:19:37 zeltak: shrug, works for me Aug 30 02:19:59 oh you were serious?? gentoo on the n900?!? Aug 30 02:19:59 luke-jr, so you can make calls on your N900 from gentoo? Aug 30 02:20:10 johnx: in theory! Aug 30 02:20:15 zeltak, take whatever he says with a grain of salt :) Aug 30 02:20:17 zeltak: yeah Aug 30 02:20:22 johnx: f u too Aug 30 02:20:36 luke-jr, in theory, theory and practice are the same thing. In practice, they aren't Aug 30 02:20:54 johnx: ah, but I already have telepathy built and installed. just need a GUI I like Aug 30 02:20:58 gotcha..:) i mean im new to the n900 and i know it can do some incredible stuf..but i guess gentoo is to hard core..lol Aug 30 02:21:23 zeltak search yesterdays log for sudser question Aug 30 02:21:46 i am on 900 or i would give link Aug 30 02:22:03 lcukn900: kk..i thought sudser was obsolete? Aug 30 02:22:09 also gentoo likes to compile much so you'll have to wait for that quite a bit on the n900's little cpu i guess... Aug 30 02:22:54 nox-: N900's CPU is probably more capable than my original Gentoo box Aug 30 02:23:10 and definitely more capable than the 233 MHz Pentium I once ran Gentoo on Aug 30 02:23:48 lcukn900: i searched the 28 and 29th..didnt find a sudusr mention? Aug 30 02:24:01 i meant sudser Aug 30 02:25:30 k my bad lcukn900 found it Aug 30 02:25:52 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-29.log.html#t2010-08-29T18:06:46 Aug 30 02:26:21 me too - the wedlog views and renders quite nicely on microb Aug 30 02:26:34 but if a judder getting going tho Aug 30 02:26:56 weblog Aug 30 02:27:18 i see so i dont quite follow the resolution lcukn900 ? Aug 30 02:32:08 sigh Aug 30 02:32:15 is there any hope for a working Nano in Maemo? Aug 30 02:32:50 s/in Maemo// Aug 30 02:32:51 no Aug 30 02:33:00 … Aug 30 02:33:01 haha Aug 30 02:35:17 in /etc/pmconfig, change 'sleep_ind 1' to 0 ;) Aug 30 02:35:30 hey...when is n9 coming people? Aug 30 02:35:47 tuesday Aug 30 02:36:16 whats next for n900? is 1.3 coming ? Aug 30 02:36:24 N900 is dead probably Aug 30 02:36:31 or is n900 dead in the water already? Aug 30 02:36:33 until MeeGo at least Aug 30 02:36:46 he Ousama / N900_lover. how;s it going? Aug 30 02:36:59 good...thanks Aug 30 02:37:17 but that aint my name buddy] Aug 30 02:37:30 Ousama: Nokia has hired people to port MeeGo to N900, but won't officially support it Aug 30 02:37:54 luke-jr: yup Aug 30 02:37:58 Ousama, eh. I just make up names for the people here anyways. Don't worry about it Aug 30 02:38:18 is nokia still selling the n900? Aug 30 02:38:38 I dunno. if you go to their website, is it for sale? Aug 30 02:38:46 it is in usa Aug 30 02:39:10 then, uhm, what were you asking? Aug 30 02:39:23 why they selling n900 when n9 is coming in weeks? Aug 30 02:40:04 let's rephrase that: Why do companies sell things even when they will eventually release new things? Aug 30 02:40:41 johnx: wrong buddy.......iphone is supported for years....not dead after 7 months...and no, i aint an apple fan boi Aug 30 02:40:57 Ousama, did I say that? Aug 30 02:41:22 johnx: youre implying that Aug 30 02:41:28 Ousama, welcome back N900dude Aug 30 02:41:28 no. I wasn't Aug 30 02:41:40 I think you're being a little defensive :) Aug 30 02:41:40 Aug 12 20:04:11 --> N900dude (~user@bas6-hamilton14-1176141564.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #maemo Aug 30 02:41:41 chill....just asking questions Aug 30 02:41:47 Aug 13 14:11:42 --> N900dude (~user@bas6-hamilton14-1176141564.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #maemo Aug 30 02:41:54 and now, you, connecting from that same hostname Aug 30 02:42:00 ieatlint, yeah, N900_lover and N900_hater as well Aug 30 02:42:14 ieatlint: ever heard of several people using the same computer buddy ? Aug 30 02:42:45 no Aug 30 02:42:45 ieatlint, (be quiet about this, but I think he has some type of short-term memory loss disorder.) Aug 30 02:42:46 never Aug 30 02:42:49 i dunno what your talking about Aug 30 02:43:02 Ousama, we have no idea what you're talking about either Aug 30 02:43:08 so at least everyone is on equal footing Aug 30 02:43:17 chill everyone Aug 30 02:43:21 he also used the nick "maemoboi", which i find far more entertaining Aug 30 02:43:25 sounds kinda hot Aug 30 02:43:47 ieatlint, uhm...wow...so I have no idea where to go with that Aug 30 02:43:58 so can we expect any new apps for n900 or is the platform dead? Aug 30 02:44:06 hamilton, ontario is where to go Aug 30 02:44:17 Ousama, no. there are no apps. the platform is dead. In addition, smartphones are going away Aug 30 02:44:33 everyone will switch back to MOTO RAZRs and laugh at how we use to use touch screen phones Aug 30 02:44:52 Ousama: look on extras-devel, there's new apps every day Aug 30 02:44:53 also, the web is dying Aug 30 02:44:55 you open source nazis are dunny Aug 30 02:45:00 funny Aug 30 02:45:43 hey, i'm not an open source nazi Aug 30 02:45:48 i'm more of the classical variety Aug 30 02:45:49 the usb port on my n900 is broken.... can i replace it or am i fucked? Aug 30 02:45:58 Ousama, so do you troll other channels, or is just this one? Aug 30 02:46:02 at least `we' dont have to `jailbreak' our device... Aug 30 02:46:23 johnx: i aint no troll.... Aug 30 02:46:32 double negative ... Aug 30 02:46:42 he's right Aug 30 02:46:42 whut? Aug 30 02:46:44 trolls are entertaining Aug 30 02:46:51 and funny Aug 30 02:46:54 im glad n9 is coming Aug 30 02:47:13 ieatlint, I guess that is a pretty good proof that he isn't a troll :> I stand corrected ... Aug 30 02:47:27 Ousama, wow. keep thsoe fantasies to yourself O_o; Aug 30 02:47:47 johnx: you dont think n9 will be announced at nokia world? Aug 30 02:48:43 Ousama, look. I don't know who this n9 guy is that you're pretending is coming, but this is a technical channel, not some cybersex chatroom Aug 30 02:49:17 :( Aug 30 02:49:21 johnx: why cant we talk about an upcoming meego device which is directly descended from maemo? Aug 30 02:49:43 there is a meego channel too Aug 30 02:49:47 johnx: read the news much? Aug 30 02:50:14 Ousama, chill. you need 2 lighten up Aug 30 02:50:43 johnx: cool Aug 30 02:51:44 read this dudes: http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/08/nokia_n9_leak_now_includes_specs.html Aug 30 02:52:24 the freaking specs are da bomb man Aug 30 02:52:25 Ousama, I highly doubt those are all true Aug 30 02:52:55 really? Aug 30 02:53:24 I'd bet on an OMAP3 instead of the Snapdragon Aug 30 02:53:47 yes...we'll see....nokia needs a top end device badly Aug 30 02:53:48 also, if I was a betting man, I'd guess a 3.5" or 3.7" screen Aug 30 02:54:54 i am so pissed how n900 was treated....so freaking pissed i bought into the lies...the propaganda....freaking bitter man Aug 30 02:55:08 Ousama, you seem a bit fickle ... Aug 30 02:56:00 when i paid $600 for n900 i was expecting great thing as promised by the Arsi dude last year..... freaking bitter pill to swallow Aug 30 02:56:14 anyways, if you think Nokia lied to you, you probably need to contact nokia customer care Aug 30 02:56:43 johnx: nah.... fuck that.... just venting here... nobody cares about a little man like me Aug 30 02:56:47 Ousama: can you link to anything Arsi said about the n900 and what he prosmised? Aug 30 02:56:57 Ousama, you're so right about that. you have no idea Aug 30 02:57:09 asj: yup... theres a youtube video somewhere.... i will find it Aug 30 02:58:38 and the worst thing is the open source fascist have blinders on their eyes.... Aug 30 02:59:54 Ousama: us open source fascists are also anti-Nokia! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 30 02:59:57 2010