**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 30 02:59:57 2010 Aug 30 03:00:07 Ousama, you mean like, from WWII? Aug 30 03:00:07 yup Aug 30 03:00:13 down with their closed free market economy! Aug 30 03:00:54 also, those N9 specs SUCK Aug 30 03:01:05 suck???? u crazy man? Aug 30 03:01:30 N1 had 1 GB RAM in January. Why do we need to put up with a measley 512 MB? Aug 30 03:01:56 luke-jr: yet the N1/Android are constantly having Out of memory errors...coincidence? :P Aug 30 03:02:04 and only 8 megapixel cam⁇ Aug 30 03:02:07 n900 was advertized as 1G ram too .. remember Aug 30 03:02:11 Gizmokid2005: irrelevant Aug 30 03:02:19 cehteh: you're saying N1 doesn't have 1G? Aug 30 03:02:39 * cehteh saied "n900 was advertized as 1G ram too" Aug 30 03:02:44 nothing more :P Aug 30 03:02:46 luke-jr: not. Why do you need to include 1GB RAM on an OS that will never need that much? 256MB has proven more than sufficient on Maemo, at least in most use cases... Aug 30 03:02:54 Gizmokid2005: LOLOLOL Aug 30 03:03:01 O_o Aug 30 03:03:02 Maemo can't work with 256 MB Aug 30 03:03:03 Gizmokid2005: uhm Aug 30 03:03:07 try turning the swap off sometime Aug 30 03:03:13 i would like to have 1G Aug 30 03:03:14 and android doesn't have swap? Aug 30 03:03:20 I'm not saying it won't help to have more Aug 30 03:03:24 heck, even KDE runs with less memory than Maemo Aug 30 03:03:29 I'm just saying, just because it has more doesn't mean it's going to work any better Aug 30 03:03:39 Gizmokid2005: RAM is easily the bottleneck in N900 Aug 30 03:03:43 and N810 Aug 30 03:03:44 sure it does. Aug 30 03:03:45 and N800 Aug 30 03:03:50 512MB will make a huge difference Aug 30 03:03:52 more RAM is more cache. More cache is faster. Aug 30 03:03:57 luke-jr: and IO/mem bandwidth isn't? Aug 30 03:04:00 * cehteh thinks 512M or 1G would give the n900 a quite big speed boost Aug 30 03:04:06 asj: that's over my head Aug 30 03:04:10 I kind of doubt that 512MB -> 1GB would be worth the extra $$$ and power usage at this point Aug 30 03:04:18 hmm Aug 30 03:04:25 does more RAM actually use more power? I guess it would… Aug 30 03:04:28 i am quite positive about this Aug 30 03:04:32 can Linux handle turning RAM on/off? Aug 30 03:04:35 yes it does Aug 30 03:04:40 luke-jr, not DRAM Aug 30 03:04:42 luke-jr: the n900 can only move about 300megs/sec to and from memory, including gpu accesses. You really think double the mem would matter? it would take 2 seconds to use it all Aug 30 03:04:48 that's what the *D* means Aug 30 03:04:53 maybe an array of 2x 512 MB RAM? Aug 30 03:04:54 ^^ ty asj Aug 30 03:04:57 johnx: ? Aug 30 03:05:08 luke-jr, if you turn the RAM off you lose the contents Aug 30 03:05:09 you can't just increase ram wihtout beefing up the access points (meaning bandwidth, etc) Aug 30 03:05:15 asj: compared to the 6Mb/sec swap .. would be gold :) Aug 30 03:05:17 johnx: so? Aug 30 03:05:20 obviously android has mem usage issues, just like the N97 had... Aug 30 03:05:32 johnx: if you're only using 300 MB RAM, turn the second 512 MB off Aug 30 03:05:56 and its not only swap .. if you have more memory you have way better utilized page-cache Aug 30 03:05:58 luke-jr, so you propose dropping cache whenever the device goes to low power mode? Aug 30 03:05:58 cehteh: while I'm sure 512/1g would help, I think removing the io bottleneck from the GPU and CPU have to be done at the same time Aug 30 03:06:22 johnx: sure Aug 30 03:06:57 luke-jr, and then the device can be slow when you unlock it and try to open an app? Aug 30 03:07:10 this is why no one really uses suspend to disk these days Aug 30 03:07:14 johnx: no slower than if it only had 512 MB total to begin with Aug 30 03:07:21 cehteh: especially when you consider the desire for 60fps, let's see the GPU is drawing the whole screen, 800x480x24x60 == how many mbps? Aug 30 03:07:43 nah, nobody uses suspend to disk because nobody wants to stop their bg processes :P Aug 30 03:07:56 asj: fine. DDR3 at the same time Aug 30 03:08:38 luke-jr, you're right. I never said more RAM wouldn't be faster, just that it would soak up power in a lot of situations and cost more money Aug 30 03:09:04 and then you'd have to do a whole bunch of 'clever' hacking to try and reduce the power usage Aug 30 03:09:10 luke-jr: you realize I shove this device in my pocket, I don't want roasted nuts ;) Aug 30 03:09:25 asj: why not? it's a nice pocket warmer in the winter Aug 30 03:09:30 generally I keep mine in my hip pocket, not in my boxers ... Aug 30 03:09:35 that's a feature I miss from C760 Aug 30 03:09:39 luke-jr: they don't have winter where I live Aug 30 03:09:49 asj, you can have ours Aug 30 03:10:02 johnx: no, that's why I moved Aug 30 03:10:07 lol Aug 30 03:10:24 actually, has anyone tested whether N900 and such devices in a pocket can cause sterilization? O.o Aug 30 03:11:03 guess we can force Nokia to respond with some FUD… Aug 30 03:11:08 "N900 = no babies!" Aug 30 03:11:18 how do you test that Aug 30 03:11:19 <.< Aug 30 03:11:35 Adeon: not too difficult I imagine Aug 30 03:11:42 luke-jr, I'd believe that correlation, but I think it'd be more do to the phone being kind of an unstylish brick that appeals to geeks :P Aug 30 03:11:56 johnx: lol, I wouldn't Aug 30 03:12:07 slono and I at least have had a couple kids since carrying around N810 Aug 30 03:12:15 I imagine we're not alone Aug 30 03:12:29 so unless we have abnormally strong sperm.. Aug 30 03:12:43 of course, testing on women would be an entirely different matter Aug 30 03:12:48 are there any females with N900 at all? Aug 30 03:12:58 (then again, I guess it *doesn't matter*, if not) Aug 30 03:14:06 infobot: monologue Aug 30 03:14:14 infobot: botsmack Aug 30 03:14:15 OWW! Aug 30 03:14:30 anyways, what makes you think it would sterilize you? Aug 30 03:14:48 the electromagnetic emissions? the heat? the brick shape? Aug 30 03:18:00 johnx: the nerdiness of it? Aug 30 03:18:33 heh. If you survived the C760, you're probably invulnerable Aug 30 03:18:50 :P Aug 30 03:18:54 think of it the same way you think of training your immune system Aug 30 03:19:16 N900::smallpox C760::cowpox :P Aug 30 03:19:31 isn't that backward? Aug 30 03:19:41 yes Aug 30 03:19:42 :) Aug 30 03:21:33 hey boys Aug 30 03:22:00 hi troll Aug 30 03:24:54 thats mean Aug 30 03:25:02 sometimes the truth hurts Aug 30 03:55:32 what's the state of using skype on the N900 ? Aug 30 03:55:48 skype suck balls big one on n900 Aug 30 03:56:08 in what way? Aug 30 03:56:24 battery will last like 12 minutes a day if you're connected to skype all the time Aug 30 03:57:07 and you need a magnifying glass to see if youre doing a video call Aug 30 03:57:17 just ignore him, he's a troll Aug 30 03:57:24 skype works fine Aug 30 03:57:49 no I am not... skype is a poorly implemented attempt Aug 30 03:58:39 ieatlint: thanks - I know it'lll much battery and bandwidth, I use it on my eeepc more for sending SMS to non-skype people Aug 30 03:58:50 s/much/munch Aug 30 03:58:52 please go try it yourself and then come back here and report on battery....judge for yourself if I am a troll Aug 30 03:59:41 Ousama: battery is not a concern for me - I would not have skype running all the time - that is asking for trouble even in a netbook Aug 30 03:59:59 but I appreciate your words:) Aug 30 04:00:06 fair enough Aug 30 04:00:07 how does the install go - easy? Aug 30 04:00:48 skype is built in....no need to install anything Aug 30 04:00:50 I don't see it in ovi.... Aug 30 04:00:57 Ooo - ok Aug 30 04:01:14 forget ovi.... n900 is a forgotten child on ovi....skype is built in Aug 30 04:01:27 * jpinx-eeepc hasn't actually gor his N900 yet - it's with the carriers somewhere between New Zealand and Thailand Aug 30 04:01:49 jpinx-eeepc: so...it's in australia...bouncing along on a kangeroo? Aug 30 04:01:55 heh Aug 30 04:02:20 may i ask why you purchased the n900? Aug 30 04:02:34 jpinx-eeepc: ovi store is dead for the n900, all the fun stuff is totaly free and in maemo extras, -devel and -testing, where there's probably close to 1000 apps Aug 30 04:02:41 I am following the usb implementation with considerable interest - that is going to be a life-changing experience for N900 users I reckon Aug 30 04:03:17 asj: cool - where do I find -devel adn -testing ? Aug 30 04:03:31 one thing about apps in the repositories: there's lots of em but most have been abandoned, be careful what you instal Aug 30 04:03:53 jpinx-eeepc: docs should be on maemo.org Aug 30 04:03:59 Ousama: I hear you ;) Aug 30 04:04:12 asj: okidoki Aug 30 04:04:12 Ousama: most? go back into your hole Aug 30 04:05:12 asj: i have all kinds of apps installed and not one of them has been updated in a long time, i call that abandonware in my books. Aug 30 04:05:44 I'll check here before installing anything ;) Aug 30 04:05:58 Ousama: not in the least, if the app does it's job why does it need updates? Aug 30 04:06:10 really only need irssi, bitlbee and skype Aug 30 04:06:26 asj: fair enough... the thing with maemo is the apps are work in progress Aug 30 04:06:27 assuming the browser is good enough Aug 30 04:06:36 it's like saying grep in linux is only version 2.5.2, how often do you think grep needs to be updated? :) Aug 30 04:06:56 asj: are you in #debian ? Aug 30 04:07:16 jpinx-eeepc: no, and I'll avoid that discussion ;) Aug 30 04:07:37 heh ;) Aug 30 04:07:55 i think its fair to assume most developers are moving on to meego Aug 30 04:08:24 * jpinx-eeepc has no clue whaqt the diferences are between maemo meego Aug 30 04:08:54 Ousama: write your app in Qt on maemo and it's a meego app. Some caveats apply, but not for anything mentioned so far. Aug 30 04:09:33 I saw a comment that meego might be available for the N900, but not sure what the advantage would be Aug 30 04:09:35 jpinx-eeepc: some structural distribution changes, but basically the dev story on meego is qt, qt, qt. (and qt-mobility) all of which are available in the same versions on maemo Aug 30 04:09:38 some caveats? Aug 30 04:10:03 asj: fairy snuff - all basic linux-like? Aug 30 04:10:39 jpinx-eeepc: yup, minor distro updates is all Aug 30 04:10:53 cool :) Aug 30 04:11:08 maybe some rpm/deb issues Aug 30 04:11:20 asj - just the usual ;) Aug 30 04:11:35 exactly, hopefully the hardware will be better Aug 30 04:12:07 what's the latest on USB implementation - I have read lots of lists and forums about it Aug 30 04:13:07 looked like a pretty major amount of kernel hacking/patching was needed Aug 30 04:15:34 Ouch, my /dev/mtdblock5 partition has a 4k sector 6912 in that won't read. I suppose that is what is keeping it from booting. Aug 30 05:36:06 Aug 30 05:54:47 Aug 30 06:00:39 psycho_oreos: hey! Aug 30 06:00:50 senge, yo, whats news? Aug 30 06:01:16 psycho_oreos: lol! you convinced me to buy n900, i'll get it 2moro! Aug 30 06:01:19 :) Aug 30 06:01:53 senge, its not a bad choice, its not too great but if you love tinkering I don't think you'll regret your purchase that quickly :) Aug 30 06:03:42 the concept is cool i think! computer with calling facility! Aug 30 06:05:20 well its not exactly a computer but if you want to call it that I suppose you can Aug 30 06:17:19 adding a waypoint or marker on the maps??? Aug 30 06:19:20 how to define bookmark places in Ovi Maps? Aug 30 06:19:52 someone saied about PUBS. what is it? Aug 30 06:19:58 *said Aug 30 06:21:00 bookmark places huh Aug 30 06:21:08 probly the answer to my q Aug 30 06:21:25 ham5: :-D Aug 30 06:21:53 and I wish ovi maps was open source :-( Aug 30 06:22:51 or something opensource was comparable ;) Aug 30 06:23:19 what's the license of AGTL? Aug 30 06:24:34 ovi maps is also too slow and has bad interface Aug 30 06:25:35 moan moan moan Aug 30 06:26:08 hmmm AGTL is not under the Beerware license Aug 30 06:30:59 haha' Aug 30 06:31:19 we talkin the non-free Beerware or the free one? Aug 30 06:35:51 senge: congrats! welcome to the Nxxx club :-) Aug 30 06:36:07 DocScrutinizer: tomorrow! thanks :) Aug 30 06:36:35 take good care about your micro-usb receptacle! Aug 30 06:38:03 is beerware license a joke? is it Public Domain? Aug 30 06:39:02 someone may want to move code from a beerware code to a gpl code, without adding that funny message Aug 30 06:40:15 * ilius wonders Aug 30 06:41:42 ilius: dare!! The Bavarian beerware liberation and enforcement army will raid all over you Aug 30 06:43:47 DocScrutinizer: really?? Aug 30 06:43:57 DocScrutinizer: :-D Aug 30 06:44:22 DocScrutinizer: no it can't :P Aug 30 06:44:32 don't mess with beer, or at least don't let anybody know here where I live X-P Aug 30 06:46:05 DocScrutinizer: they can not do anything even if they know my location! Aug 30 06:46:13 DocScrutinizer: :P Aug 30 06:46:30 Here human rights are dfined like "Good beer, bread (or bretzel), air to breathe, stay alive..." in that order of importance Aug 30 06:48:01 DocScrutinizer: i still didn't understand if keeping the message is serious or no! Aug 30 06:48:34 honestly I have no f c what you're talking about at all ;-) Aug 30 06:48:46 .... it is effectively in the Public Domain .... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing/Beerware Aug 30 06:49:13 beer always supercedes the the necessity of staying alive Aug 30 06:50:02 is this license compatible with GPLv2 ? Aug 30 06:51:15 yes Aug 30 06:51:42 ilius, it states on that page even that it is GPL compatible Aug 30 06:52:48 it's a "keep this (c) notice and do whatever you want" licence Aug 30 06:52:49 silly Aug 30 06:53:08 so it's much better than GPL even Aug 30 06:53:37 depends on how you define "better" Aug 30 06:53:38 yes, i should start adding that to software i write Aug 30 06:53:49 or a revision thereof Aug 30 06:53:58 "buy me beer commensurate with the quality of code" Aug 30 06:54:05 better as in 'allows more degrees of freedom in the way to deal with it" Aug 30 06:54:10 so i get punished for writing code that gets me budweiser Aug 30 06:54:57 then public domain is the best Aug 30 06:55:59 ilius: no, beer is the best (if it's frankonian beer) Aug 30 06:57:32 DocScrutinizer: thats not related to software Aug 30 06:58:13 public domain also isn't exactly related to software. It's a tag attached to a concept Aug 30 06:58:41 stallman: free as in "free software" is like free as in "free speech" not in "free beer" Aug 30 06:59:07 :P Aug 30 06:59:30 rms the great Aug 30 06:59:38 free speech is my right to speak, free software is my right to software? Aug 30 06:59:43 * DocScrutinizer yeeps like a dog got stepped on its tail, seing RMS being mentioned Aug 30 06:59:48 that makes no sense... which is on par for the guy Aug 30 07:00:37 ~trout ilius Aug 30 07:00:37 * infobot slaps ilius around a bit with a large trout! Aug 30 07:01:14 :-/ Aug 30 07:01:20 verbification weirds nouns Aug 30 07:02:34 even *IF* we want to discuss that stall-man quote, it's clearly referring to *your* usage of the software wghere you anticipate it is completely free of charge, offered to you like "free beer". It's NOT about beer you just MAY offer to the developer Aug 30 07:02:55 DocScrutinizer: you can write propritary software and sell it, the buy much beer with its money Aug 30 07:03:02 *then Aug 30 07:03:04 :-D Aug 30 07:03:34 sorry you lost me, and tbh this is boring me Aug 30 07:05:28 please take it to #sophism Aug 30 07:05:55 or rather go and buy the developer dude a beer :-P Aug 30 07:07:18 as obviously even the 3 lines of licence comment he put in there made you think about licencing that much I'd say he earned a beer at least for that Aug 30 07:08:24 you're studying for lawyer bachelor? Aug 30 07:13:56 lol... there's such thing as an "xor linked list" Aug 30 07:15:10 ieatlint: wut? Aug 30 07:15:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xor_linked_list Aug 30 07:15:25 must be activeX Aug 30 07:15:28 it seems half like a joke Aug 30 07:15:55 "how far are you willing to go to save 4 bytes per node?" is really the basis of it Aug 30 07:17:09 umm, so along the line of "why use an array of ints, when we can have a dictionary of pointers to list of structures" Aug 30 07:18:03 hehe Aug 30 07:21:16 forgot to add second half of sentence: "... to show all the world our coding awesomeness" Aug 30 07:26:44 substitute last two words by any number of other attributes considered particularly splendid, like "eternal leetness" or whatever Aug 30 07:29:36 http://www.nokiausa.com/get-support-and-software/product-support/x6-16gb/how-to/ovi-maps/use-ovi-maps Aug 30 07:30:14 this version of ovi maps, seem to have favorite places! Aug 30 07:31:20 Menu > Applications > Location and Landmarks -> New landmark Aug 30 07:31:47 why this does not exist in n900 Aug 30 07:32:26 :-( Aug 30 07:32:43 because the AskNokia factor Aug 30 07:33:48 s/se /se of / Aug 30 07:33:48 DocScrutinizer meant: because of the AskNokia factor Aug 30 07:34:14 ~botsnack Aug 30 07:34:15 thanks, DocScrutinizer Aug 30 07:37:47 basically it's like asking "why is windows XYZ not existing for Windows Mobile" (e.g. windows VB) Aug 30 07:38:50 just the tag windows/OVI doesn't mean anything regarding the actual product properties Aug 30 07:38:53 windows bob Aug 30 07:39:07 I like windows bob Aug 30 07:39:20 windoze boob? Aug 30 07:39:58 i like microsoft kin Aug 30 07:40:01 nah, I really don't care to learn what it is! Aug 30 07:40:16 that's probably why the product failed to fly, for every 1 person that likes bob, there's at least 10 people that didn't like bob :p Aug 30 07:43:11 I know Steve and Bill, but I wish I'd not, and for sure I don't want to learn to know Bob Aug 30 07:44:02 hi Aug 30 07:44:25 i need help configuring with my 5800 please Aug 30 07:44:33 thabks al o Aug 30 07:44:37 though without incredible performance of Steve B. we never got the legendary balmer rap on youtube ;-P Aug 30 07:45:21 don't forget about Paul, whos now making himself popular again Aug 30 07:45:22 doublem: this isn't a generic Nokia support chan Aug 30 07:45:39 well i just need a bit help to get started Aug 30 07:45:47 I would be thankful Aug 30 07:46:01 tried nokia forums? Aug 30 07:46:04 what is it otherwise DocScrutinizer Aug 30 07:46:26 well where? sorry google did not help me much.... Aug 30 07:46:37 its for NIT tablets discussion, 770, n800, n810 and n900 Aug 30 07:46:50 /topic Aug 30 07:47:01 http://maemo.org/intro/ Aug 30 07:47:11 thank you Aug 30 07:47:32 www.forum.nokia.com :p Aug 30 07:49:38 ~wake Europe Aug 30 07:49:38 * infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on Europe and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" Aug 30 07:49:40 psycho_oreos, I was there but i am lost cant really find what i am looking far Aug 30 07:49:43 sorry Aug 30 07:49:51 *for Aug 30 07:49:59 where is the 5800 section Aug 30 07:50:21 doublem, you create a general help thread for 5800, and someone will guide you Aug 30 07:50:43 this isn't the place to ask for help on how to use forums in general :p Aug 30 07:51:05 i know you guys are an open source community Aug 30 07:51:08 particularly not about symbian related forums :-P Aug 30 07:51:29 our devices aren't feeblishly underpowered :) Aug 30 07:51:39 i like android a lot but have trouble doing this nokia because it is all locked up Aug 30 07:51:59 and android discussions goes into #android Aug 30 07:52:12 can you put the maemo software on the nokia 5800 xpress music Aug 30 07:52:19 no Aug 30 07:52:22 or *maybe* #nitdroid Aug 30 07:52:22 or is maemo an os? Aug 30 07:52:38 too bad i would of love it Aug 30 07:52:46 well i go to cyanogen mod Aug 30 07:52:55 maemo is an OS, and its specifically for nokia internet tablets whom are equipped with much better hardware Aug 30 07:53:00 that is what i use for android Aug 30 07:53:06 ha I see my bad Aug 30 07:53:32 except the ti gps chip Aug 30 07:53:47 mind if i ask whic tablet sorry Aug 30 07:53:53 n900 is an exception, it not only has internet tablet capability, it can also make receive phone calls along with sms, etc Aug 30 07:54:00 I've said it above Aug 30 07:54:15 http://maemo.org/intro/ Aug 30 07:54:18 except for the broadcrap bluetooth chipset as well but alas Aug 30 07:54:37 my bad sorry about making you guys repeating yourself Aug 30 07:54:48 well thanks for the help anyway Aug 30 07:58:02 * DocScrutinizer installs a battery of MTHEL along #maemo borders... "phooo, now we should be safe" Aug 30 07:58:25 the os is based on debian that seems cool Aug 30 07:58:48 any screenshot on that site Aug 30 07:58:57 am browsing seems nice with a table Aug 30 07:59:27 one demo of n900 and you'll probably be swept away Aug 30 07:59:36 http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=36439&page=105 Aug 30 08:00:16 i like debian a lot started linux with ubuntu like 5 years back Aug 30 08:00:55 wow ham5 some of those screens are really nice Aug 30 08:01:08 so.. what's stopping you now from selling that 5800 of yours and getting n900? Aug 30 08:01:14 *evil grin* Aug 30 08:01:30 fact that he still couldent save a 'landmark' :\ Aug 30 08:01:36 how much time to get one of those from a stock n900 Aug 30 08:01:59 psycho_oreos, lazyness ^^ Aug 30 08:02:12 doublem, .. poor excuse Aug 30 08:02:19 i know that is my point Aug 30 08:02:26 stability Aug 30 08:02:43 is another excuse Aug 30 08:02:52 linux is stable Aug 30 08:02:55 how stable is maemo Aug 30 08:03:02 depends how you run it Aug 30 08:03:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE Aug 30 08:03:12 it just depends on how you treat it, install crappy unstable packages and expect the setup to break Aug 30 08:03:16 oops Aug 30 08:03:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LThD0FMvTFU Aug 30 08:03:28 i have a skill to make it unstable, very unstable Aug 30 08:03:42 that is why symbian is maybe good sometime Aug 30 08:03:54 then don't :) unless you know what you are doing and you intend to do it like that Aug 30 08:03:59 and theyrah Aug 30 08:04:05 in other words you like to be controlled? Aug 30 08:04:05 sorry Aug 30 08:04:17 yeah sometimes depends for what Aug 30 08:04:29 in symbian, the device _owns_ you Aug 30 08:04:33 i know Aug 30 08:04:37 i have seen that Aug 30 08:04:58 in maemo, you _own_ the device, the device and bows down as soon as you become god Aug 30 08:05:00 also the 5800 was a gift from family Aug 30 08:05:09 crap gift Aug 30 08:05:11 i cant get rid of it like this Aug 30 08:05:14 psycho_oreos: yes, but the screen is made of cocaine Aug 30 08:05:19 Hello all ! Aug 30 08:05:23 what can I say eh Aug 30 08:05:36 Stskeeps, you meant the symbian stuff eh? :) Aug 30 08:05:55 psycho_oreos, probably what he meant... Aug 30 08:06:02 psycho_oreos: no, n900 Aug 30 08:06:03 :P Aug 30 08:06:32 Stskeeps, can't see it being made of cocaine, or I'd imagine it'd be hard trying to smuggle drugs across international borders Aug 30 08:06:45 inspection dogs will be on it in no time Aug 30 08:06:48 psycho_oreos: i have heavy duty n900 addiction, must have come from somewhere Aug 30 08:06:49 :P Aug 30 08:07:15 Stskeeps, yes from being in here for quite sometime :) its a disease ;) Aug 30 08:07:41 I hate filesystems Aug 30 08:07:56 No, you can't use time machine because the hard drive isn't HFS+ Aug 30 08:08:12 No, you can't convert your NTFS 1TB drive to HFS+ without losing all the data Aug 30 08:08:20 No, I can't read to NTFS partitions Aug 30 08:09:05 do an sftp Aug 30 08:09:20 use proper operating systems Aug 30 08:09:21 ntfs isn't a filesystem Aug 30 08:09:21 mount the TB elsewhere Aug 30 08:09:38 it s a just a method to loose data Aug 30 08:09:46 lol Aug 30 08:09:58 granulated data Aug 30 08:10:03 what does fs in "ntfs" meam then Khertan1 Aug 30 08:10:11 but i agree it sucks otherwise Aug 30 08:10:12 fucked system Aug 30 08:10:16 fucked setup Aug 30 08:10:18 lol Aug 30 08:10:38 No This isn't a FS Aug 30 08:10:52 lol i agree but more like fuckedfile system Aug 30 08:10:55 Nope This is a Fucked System Aug 30 08:11:17 ok Aug 30 08:11:29 Not The Fucked System Aug 30 08:11:29 winblows eh? Aug 30 08:12:42 developersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopersdevelopers Aug 30 08:13:30 you can't seriously consider using an OS produced by a company run by such a monkey Aug 30 08:14:28 i can if i knew nothing about computing, but that is not case so....... no Aug 30 08:14:59 it'd be an abysmal excuse to be a blonde when you have tried ubuntu :p Aug 30 08:15:12 surely a blonde would do better than that ;) Aug 30 08:15:26 windows == http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE Same spirit in both of them XP Aug 30 08:15:26 i agree Aug 30 08:16:30 lol "I like when he says 'developers'" Aug 30 08:17:11 i am not a dev but an environmental engineer Aug 30 08:17:21 use archlinux everyday tough Aug 30 08:17:31 so am not that retarded Aug 30 08:18:14 am on it as we speak actually Aug 30 08:18:20 hate windows actually Aug 30 08:18:37 ._. Aug 30 08:20:25 but do use it when i dont have a choice... Aug 30 08:22:06 yeah, shooting yourself in the forehead isn't always an alternative, though sometimes I consider it when confronted with the need of using windows Aug 30 08:23:15 yeah Aug 30 08:24:52 well like for school the prof wants matlab i offer an open source Aug 30 08:25:02 he says no what can i say Aug 30 08:25:16 just run matlab in windows in a virtual box Aug 30 08:25:20 pretty much Aug 30 08:25:30 that is what i do Aug 30 08:26:19 does matlab work in wineß Aug 30 08:27:22 nice Aug 30 08:27:45 never tried but vm work fine on mine Aug 30 08:27:51 http://www.mathworks.com/products/matlab/requirements.html Aug 30 08:28:00 I prefer not to own windows licenese Aug 30 08:28:07 licenses Aug 30 08:28:16 lol^^ Aug 30 08:28:23 i dont Aug 30 08:28:32 school gives them to me for free Aug 30 08:28:37 so why say no Aug 30 08:29:47 cause working with windoze drills holes into your neocortex Aug 30 08:29:56 exactly^^ Aug 30 08:30:37 well yeah but they will say that is not an excuse and wont look further Aug 30 08:31:09 doublem: wtf, matlab works on linux Aug 30 08:31:10 and because i care more about my grades than open source that is why i do it.... Aug 30 08:31:38 then sue them for not making good use of public funding, as there are better more economic alternatives than M$, esp for educational purposes Aug 30 08:31:39 wtf Dassu, said i did not try it it.... Aug 30 08:31:57 kk Aug 30 08:32:30 privately funded and am not rich enough to sue my school and dont want to put the effort into it Aug 30 08:33:07 Well, my school in the other hand offers a possibility to do matlab exercises in the Linux class Aug 30 08:33:19 nice where is that? Aug 30 08:33:32 :( In Finland Aug 30 08:33:37 lol Aug 30 08:33:53 then simply install buntkuh with win7 theme and matlab-linux on your engine, and laugh at the prof when he gets puzzled going outside of matlap app and not exactly finding stuff to work like HE expected Aug 30 08:34:26 why does it not suprise me that you use a nokia then Dassu Aug 30 08:34:53 yeah DocScrutinizer but the matlab licence is not free Aug 30 08:35:15 i do not own the licence that is my point Aug 30 08:35:17 hmm, but maybe convertable Aug 30 08:36:16 they dont give the numbers to me Aug 30 08:36:48 well i could get an illegal licence as well Aug 30 08:36:48 I'd not even be surprised about the linux version happily running on the windows licence key Aug 30 08:38:54 FFS Aug 30 08:38:59 ~weather EDDN Aug 30 08:39:01 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.08.30 0820 UTC; Dew Point: 44 F (7 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.77 in. Hg (1008 hPa); Relative Humidity: 100%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 44 F (7 C); Visibility: 5 mile(s); Weather: Rain; Wind: from the W (280 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT) Aug 30 08:39:50 prepare for a particularly grumpy doc today! Aug 30 08:40:27 I mean what an August is THAT (on northern hemisphere) Aug 30 08:40:36 alright guys bed time thanks for help and nice talking to you guys Aug 30 08:49:15 hey guys Aug 30 08:49:23 is there portrait mode available for maemo Aug 30 08:49:24 ? Aug 30 08:49:54 yes partially.. not available for the desktop Aug 30 08:50:47 seif_: some applications work in portrait mode, some not Aug 30 08:50:51 some do not* Aug 30 08:50:56 sad Aug 30 08:51:57 why? so can show it off to your iphone friends and be cool? Aug 30 08:51:59 salve Aug 30 08:52:05 !list Aug 30 08:52:24 !wut¿ Aug 30 08:52:45 he's probably looking for warez Aug 30 08:52:55 anyway Aug 30 08:52:58 ~ ~ Aug 30 08:53:08 eh? Aug 30 08:53:11 ~~ Aug 30 08:53:14 maemo_5_fremantle_5.3_with-xxx-portrait-xxx.rar ? Aug 30 08:53:19 !canali Aug 30 08:53:23 ~botsnack Aug 30 08:53:23 :), DocScrutinizer Aug 30 08:53:50 !RTFM¡ Aug 30 08:55:34 ~pong Aug 30 08:55:35 ~ping Aug 30 08:57:40 psycho_oreos: warez are found at OVI :-P Aug 30 08:58:28 DocScrutinizer, I think they exist everywhere :) Aug 30 09:39:34 hi, does anyone know whether installing the community build Mozilla Firefox Mobile on the N900 will interfere with the default N900 browser? Or will it nicely install side-by-side and run side-by-side? Aug 30 09:40:02 it nicely install side-by-side and run side-by-side Aug 30 09:40:11 Sickki: ok, great. tx Aug 30 09:47:33 guys, when a Tv-out cable is plugged into N900, is the audio not routed to the tv? Aug 30 09:48:22 trumee, that would be silly. the audio is sent to tv Aug 30 09:48:39 lcuk: My n900 doesnt detect the tv-out cable? Aug 30 09:48:50 lcuk: it sees the headphone fine. Aug 30 09:49:08 thats not the first time that might occur. or your cables are not plugged in correctly? Aug 30 09:49:15 * lcuk has to switch to correct av Aug 30 09:49:49 lcuk: what do you suggest i need to do? Aug 30 09:50:17 lcuk: i dont have a TV around, only N900 and cable. Does N900 actuall y sense the TV? Aug 30 09:50:31 hi guys does any one knw how to get started for developing apps for nokia n900,i have experience in workin with PyGTK will that help,i am new to MAEMO family,pls i need help Aug 30 09:52:11 i need to develop an app based on its accelerometer hardware,can any one suggest what all things i need to for developing in maemo under windows os Aug 30 09:52:21 trumee, should do Aug 30 09:52:29 unless you are stodd infront of hundreds of people Aug 30 09:52:33 stood Aug 30 09:52:53 shouldnt the N900 detect the tv-out cable. I am play audio using media player mplayer and the audio is still being routed through the speakers Aug 30 09:53:32 i do get [94191.079589] headphone (GPIO 177) is now connected in dmesg Aug 30 09:53:38 can anyone suggest atleast some website to start with other than maemo.org Aug 30 09:54:07 So N900 does see the cable. But media-player still routes music via speakers. And headphone-daemon doesnt kick in. Aug 30 09:56:08 can somebody do me a favour. can they plug in their tv-out cable without the tv and check whether media-player routes audio trhough the speakers or not. Aug 30 09:56:29 it does Aug 30 09:56:54 I'm using exactly that setup all the time Aug 30 09:57:21 DocScrutinizer: what do you mean, N900 speakers switch off when cable is plugged in? Aug 30 09:57:29 trumee, if theres nothing connected to the other end, I don't think theres anything to detect Aug 30 09:57:43 bare uncomplete circuit (even in cable form) is not the same as connected Aug 30 09:57:49 trumee: yes Aug 30 09:57:54 lcuk: ah, you mean N900 detects the TV presence? Aug 30 09:58:07 circuit completion sounds more feasible Aug 30 09:58:28 i dont think it does anything until you actually plug both ends in - with headphones the circuit is complete Aug 30 09:58:48 lcuk: only for mic/cvbas Aug 30 09:58:50 DocScrutinizer: lcuk seems to suggest circuit needs to be complete. You are suggesting the opposite? Aug 30 09:59:19 Output jack acts as a switch. Aug 30 09:59:45 I'm absolutely sure there's no detection of any form for the headphone stereo out, and the yellow video plug is opencircuit for my usecase Aug 30 09:59:54 X-Fade: exactly Aug 30 10:00:04 [94191.079589] headphone (GPIO 177) is now connected Aug 30 10:00:28 All other workings are controlled by software, iirc. Aug 30 10:00:33 DocScrutinizer: yes, i get that as well in dmesg. But N900 speakers carry on playing audio. Aug 30 10:00:51 that's a bug then Aug 30 10:01:08 DocScrutinizer: If i plug a headphone, then the speakers stops. Aug 30 10:01:17 hmm weird Aug 30 10:02:17 DocScrutinizer: could you check that with your tv cable? Aug 30 10:02:20 i have tvout cable now, n900 is playing movie and sound out of speakers and bare cable is plugged in Aug 30 10:02:29 sound goes off when i plug the yellow cable into tv Aug 30 10:02:35 lcuk: ah! Aug 30 10:02:41 trumee: I do it all the time, no need to check again Aug 30 10:02:43 doc, how does the headphoned work then ? it has to get some sort of info that headphones are plugged or not plugged. Aug 30 10:03:01 DocScrutinizer: lcuk just checked it, it does need a TV at the other end. Aug 30 10:03:36 not here Aug 30 10:03:55 though I'll check again, to do you a favour Aug 30 10:04:02 DocScrutinizer: thanks :) Aug 30 10:04:32 mind you my device is the one that acted odd *futzed* Aug 30 10:04:52 lcuk: what do you mean? Aug 30 10:05:10 duh, ok, I'm not using TV cable but a custom 3pole -> 2 x RCA adapter Aug 30 10:05:13 nm trumee Aug 30 10:05:40 trumee: so you can short yellow plug with some tinfoil Aug 30 10:06:03 noooooo that will screw with his head Aug 30 10:06:18 lcuk, crap i just did that! Aug 30 10:06:20 the waves travelling through his hat ! Aug 30 10:06:54 DocScrutinizer: i hope it did not screw the ic inside? Aug 30 10:09:17 DocScrutinizer: ? Aug 30 10:09:36 trumee: no way Aug 30 10:09:52 DocScrutinizer: thanks, i am relieved. Aug 30 10:10:38 DocScrutinizer: So, why does it work differently than your custom rca cable? Aug 30 10:11:12 it's a 3pole 3.5mm plug, not a 4pole like on TV-cable Aug 30 10:11:35 so the 'yellow ring' is implicitly shorted to GND Aug 30 10:12:18 Morning, all Aug 30 10:12:44 DocScrutinizer: thanks for clearing that. Aug 30 10:13:28 lcuk, thanks for testing with the cable. I know now that the behaviour is as expected. Aug 30 10:13:29 thanks for correcting my knowledge base Aug 30 10:13:46 DocScrutinizer: np Aug 30 10:14:48 DocScrutinizer, so now, when i use my normal nokia headphones on laptop Aug 30 10:14:58 i have to press the mic button to get it to work in stereo Aug 30 10:15:04 otherwise i lose half the audio Aug 30 10:15:16 hahahahaha Aug 30 10:15:26 oO Aug 30 10:15:30 so it has tv detection Aug 30 10:15:36 no Aug 30 10:15:43 but you just said it has Aug 30 10:15:55 it has incredibly stupid GND connection on receptacle Aug 30 10:16:07 12:00 < lcuk> sound goes off when i plug the yellow cable into tv Aug 30 10:16:13 well, not you Aug 30 10:16:52 jacekowski: aah you're back to N900 - yes of course, it's obvious Aug 30 10:17:52 lcuk's laptop however has no TV-detection but a borked receptacle Aug 30 10:18:13 DocScrutinizer, different issue :P Aug 30 10:18:21 its just headphones Aug 30 10:19:31 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly what a weird state N900 thinks it's in wrt AV-connector, when using AV-cable without yellow cvbs out connected Aug 30 10:19:59 honestly that makes no sense at all Aug 30 10:20:15 i cant check cos i moved again Aug 30 10:31:22 short it Aug 30 10:31:24 the yellow Aug 30 10:31:51 Well - strictly - connect an impedence under a couple of hundred R Aug 30 10:31:54 but... Aug 30 10:32:22 Is there a way to suppress the default camera application from running when the camera cover is slid out? Aug 30 10:32:31 DON'T CUT THE YELLOW WIRE Aug 30 10:32:38 CUT THE BLACK ONE OR IT WILL EXPLODE Aug 30 10:32:45 RED Aug 30 10:32:47 BLACK Aug 30 10:32:49 blue Aug 30 10:33:45 ebzzry: yes Aug 30 10:33:54 ebzzry: you redefine the HAL key or somerthing Aug 30 10:34:08 Also - put tape over the sensor. Aug 30 10:34:17 Or remove the battery. Aug 30 10:34:37 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Camera_Sensor Aug 30 10:34:39 bottom Aug 30 10:38:24 wikimapia.org maps are excelent, i wish i could use it in my n900 Aug 30 10:38:32 :( Aug 30 10:39:55 link? Aug 30 10:40:58 ilius, wikimapia looks heavy on my laptop can you turn off the highlighting boundary layers Aug 30 10:41:31 have you tried OSM? Aug 30 10:41:36 ilius: where are you? Aug 30 10:41:54 also - wikimapia is not actually a map IIRC Aug 30 10:42:26 It's a map on top of google satellite Aug 30 10:42:32 It's a wiki on top of Aug 30 10:42:34 What is wikimapia guys? New map service? Aug 30 10:42:41 hew?? Aug 30 10:42:45 err new Aug 30 10:43:24 It is also probably against googles terms of service, and illegal at least in the UK, as they are deriving the boundingboxes from teh satellite imagery. Aug 30 10:43:26 SpeedEvil: iran Aug 30 10:43:34 Which google have said you explicitly can't. Aug 30 10:44:12 SpeedEvil: n900 browser could not open Aug 30 10:44:42 Could not open what? Aug 30 10:44:43 oh Aug 30 10:44:54 wikimapia is just google map satellite Aug 30 10:45:20 SpeedEvil: could not open http://wikimapia.org Aug 30 10:45:46 SpeedEvil: and it seems heavy for it Aug 30 10:45:48 ah Aug 30 10:47:27 Moo all Aug 30 10:47:38 SpeedEvil: is wikimapia illegal in uk? Aug 30 10:48:27 ilius: For some values of illegal, yes. Aug 30 10:48:50 They are using googles satellite imagery, in ways they have explicitly told other projects they can't. Aug 30 10:50:21 so it's a breach of contract Aug 30 10:50:39 kerio: No - it's a breach of copyright. Aug 30 10:50:46 oh :< Aug 30 10:50:55 As you are not complying with the copyright license. Aug 30 10:51:06 SpeedEvil, they can have keys from google api Aug 30 10:51:33 In principle, yes. Aug 30 10:54:14 * ilius contributing on www.openstreetmap.org Aug 30 10:54:56 I need to finish off the housenumbers in my village. Aug 30 10:54:59 But no energy. Aug 30 11:05:05 SpeedEvil: where are you? Aug 30 11:05:47 it there a way to download and cache wikimapia maps for offline use Aug 30 11:05:55 Fife, Scotland. Aug 30 11:05:58 *is Aug 30 11:06:32 I have no idrea. Aug 30 11:17:34 Hi Aug 30 11:17:40 Whats wrong with my device Aug 30 11:18:09 i installed power user kernel from repos, and now i try to shut down the device, it says it is in usb cable, even its not.. Aug 30 11:18:28 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5552#c26 >>Fixed for Harmattan (the version after Maemo5). Aug 30 11:18:29 Bug 5552: When being called it is not clear what number someone used Aug 30 11:19:02 so if I wouldn't know better, I'd say this indicates "maemo not (yet) dead" Aug 30 11:19:35 :o Aug 30 11:20:14 How should i reboot my phone now Aug 30 11:22:38 ssh in, 'root', 'reboot' Aug 30 11:23:07 oh Aug 30 11:23:15 you mean the device is off? Aug 30 11:23:17 Or on? Aug 30 11:23:21 and what anout USB? Aug 30 11:23:55 Device is on, i just installed power kernel on it and i want to do reboot to get that kernel enabled. Aug 30 11:24:02 ah Aug 30 11:24:09 short-press power buttopn Aug 30 11:24:11 The battery needs air.. Aug 30 11:24:12 switch off Aug 30 11:24:18 \o/ Aug 30 11:24:38 SpeedEvil: Says same "Device is in use on usb" ... Aug 30 11:25:15 oh, you mean you aren't running the new kernel yet? Aug 30 11:25:26 No not yet. Aug 30 11:25:28 unplug USB Aug 30 11:25:35 it is unplugged! :D Aug 30 11:25:38 ah Aug 30 11:25:42 then plug it in and unplug it Aug 30 11:25:46 maybe it's confusred Aug 30 11:25:47 Tried, no help. Aug 30 11:25:55 should i remove battery? eh :E Aug 30 11:25:57 trhen long-press of power button to reset it Aug 30 11:26:12 huh Aug 30 11:26:14 in thinks it is in mass-storage mode, right? Aug 30 11:26:28 ^it Aug 30 11:26:33 Got it, i did put usb cable again in, unplugged it and then pressed longpress on powerbutton. Aug 30 11:26:50 Whats this idiocy about WiFi setup on n900? What button do I have to press and where? My switch has no buttons. Aug 30 11:27:07 My n900 have been really really laggy on few last days. Aug 30 11:27:09 zap: So go and set the password/... Aug 30 11:27:13 You can do that too Aug 30 11:27:18 Where? Aug 30 11:27:27 settings -> internet connections Aug 30 11:27:31 aha, thanks Aug 30 11:27:53 iPeter-: have you had a look at top to see if you can see why? Aug 30 11:28:50 trackerd and tracker-indexer Aug 30 11:28:59 those takes cpy 90% Aug 30 11:29:05 cpu* Aug 30 11:29:23 ohoh, how do I enter the character "<" into the password field? Aug 30 11:29:33 iPeter-: edit the tracker config file Aug 30 11:29:35 set it to throttle 20 Aug 30 11:29:47 kerio: Wherehow :o Aug 30 11:29:53 tracker is the thing that indexes media files, right? Aug 30 11:30:00 BCMM: yep Aug 30 11:30:13 i didn't know about the config file, can i restrict it to a specified directory? Aug 30 11:30:18 yes Aug 30 11:30:38 RST38h, since this is more your street, how would something like this be handled and is it possible (since we are working on nokia devices..) to do this legally http://liqbase.net/liq.20100830_nokia3210.png Aug 30 11:30:39 enable/disable paths, enable/disable removable media indexing, reduce the throttle, set it to low memory mode Aug 30 11:30:43 as an app for n900 Aug 30 11:30:45 there's no UI to do that Aug 30 11:31:14 kerio: Where the config file is located Aug 30 11:31:21 ~/.config/somewhere Aug 30 11:32:06 :E Aug 30 11:32:25 ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg presumably Aug 30 11:32:54 Ill take a look. Aug 30 11:33:23 enable LowMemoryMode, set throttle to 20 Aug 30 11:33:25 it's enough for me Aug 30 11:33:32 i also removed recaller's dir Aug 30 11:34:43 kerio: LowMemoryMode=false Aug 30 11:34:49 well set it to true Aug 30 11:34:50 :) Aug 30 11:35:01 i wish i could just tell tracker to stfu Aug 30 11:35:09 you can. Aug 30 11:35:19 then solve mediaplayer problem afterwards Aug 30 11:35:25 But then media player doesn't work Aug 30 11:35:39 ffuu- Aug 30 11:35:44 Im confused. Aug 30 11:35:45 What to do? Aug 30 11:35:56 idk whats your problem Aug 30 11:36:10 iPeter-: set throttle to 20, enable lowmemorymode Aug 30 11:36:16 trackerd takes too much cpu Aug 30 11:36:19 then reboot Aug 30 11:36:28 iPeter-, whats it doing Aug 30 11:36:28 kerio: But does mediaplayer work after it Aug 30 11:36:32 a full reindex? Aug 30 11:36:38 or all the time continuous Aug 30 11:36:39 forever Aug 30 11:36:57 ie might you just let it finish its scan Aug 30 11:37:02 and then it should go back to idle Aug 30 11:37:13 Well dunno, im seeking whats doing laggy of my device, last one was trackerd.. Aug 30 11:37:29 had you just put new media on device? Aug 30 11:37:36 movies photos mem card etc? Aug 30 11:37:38 Well ok, ill leave it like this, i dont wanna break my player Aug 30 11:37:41 lcuk: nope Aug 30 11:38:26 iPeter-, give it the benefit of doubt to scan and look again and consider options kerio offered for later Aug 30 11:38:38 but just jumping and changing instantly might not be best Aug 30 11:39:07 SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android Aug 30 11:39:41 lcuk: Okay. Thanks of info. Ill leave it to default but if it does still do that even i dont add music/media to it, ill change settings. Aug 30 11:39:55 * lcuk nods Aug 30 11:39:59 seems reasonable Aug 30 11:40:50 ilius: What? Aug 30 11:41:10 ilius: There are a few OSM apps that will run on the n900 and let you download maps. maep springs to mind. Aug 30 11:42:12 SpeedEvil: really? Aug 30 11:44:27 SpeedEvil: which is the best? Aug 30 11:45:39 ffs Aug 30 11:45:47 modal dialogs should be banned Aug 30 11:46:02 [Yes]/[NO] Aug 30 11:46:03 aren't they? Aug 30 11:46:11 * ShadowJK can't tap ut away, and can't switch to another app Aug 30 11:46:22 how do i disable calls on the N900? Aug 30 11:46:35 i even tried opening camera slider and powerbutton->phone thing Aug 30 11:46:37 err what? Aug 30 11:46:38 MohammadAG51: Flight mode? Aug 30 11:46:45 without disabling 3G Aug 30 11:47:04 no way dude, except maybe with starhash wizardry Aug 30 11:47:05 MohammadAG51, tabletmode? Aug 30 11:47:07 corrupting the phone app is one way, not easily fixed though Aug 30 11:47:13 lcuk, kills 3G data Aug 30 11:47:22 MohammadAG51: Be an ass everytime anyone calls you - eventually noone calls you? Aug 30 11:47:24 redirect calls to nonexistant number? :> Aug 30 11:47:25 ahh i thought it allowed data through Aug 30 11:47:32 ie, just blocked sms call Aug 30 11:47:38 sms+call Aug 30 11:47:39 ShadowJK: won't help for outbound Aug 30 11:47:51 i just want to kill inbound Aug 30 11:47:59 lcuk, no it's like offline mode except it only offlines cellular Aug 30 11:48:02 Are there any known problems with connecting N900 to a WPA-PSK router? Doesn't work for me (correct password), while N810 connects just fine. Aug 30 11:48:08 then just redirect everything to foobar Aug 30 11:48:15 how? Aug 30 11:48:26 ShadowJK, sure, just a misunderstanding of difference Aug 30 11:48:32 MohammadAG51, i guess you need starhash enabler and enter the magic code that barrs all calls Aug 30 11:48:33 i was really surprised and pleased to see that mode Aug 30 11:48:43 MohammadAG51: Phone config. Aug 30 11:48:46 i doubt magic codes work on IL orange Aug 30 11:48:56 MohammadAG51: Is basic GSM ;) Aug 30 11:49:11 **21*555000111# Aug 30 11:49:45 morning X-Fade \o Aug 30 11:49:56 hi Aug 30 11:50:15 how do i disable forwarding? Aug 30 11:50:21 you left a msg last week, i didnt have anything on cos I was a bit poorly, its on now Aug 30 11:50:22 #21# Aug 30 11:50:40 says Value not expected Aug 30 11:50:52 for the unconditional forwarding only Aug 30 11:51:20 #002# for disabling ALL forward, iirc Aug 30 11:51:42 Uncoditional divert registered Aug 30 11:51:43 ty Aug 30 11:52:00 do i get any notice that someone called? Aug 30 11:52:11 i used an old dead number Aug 30 11:52:20 prolly not Aug 30 11:53:02 i guess diverting to voicemail would be clever Aug 30 11:55:33 Shadikka, value not expected Aug 30 11:55:43 :| Aug 30 12:00:10 Shadikka: also usually works on most providers and plans Aug 30 12:00:22 err Aug 30 12:00:28 ShadowJK: ^^^ Aug 30 12:01:15 while forwarding to any other number might either be blocked or even cost money, even to non existent numbers Aug 30 12:02:43 hi Aug 30 12:03:14 Formatting /dev/mmcblk1p1 (vfat) ...Failure. Bailing out. Aug 30 12:03:41 :-/ Aug 30 12:05:06 yay! Just 50 more gigabytes to copy! Aug 30 12:05:51 I never thought I would say this: 20MB/second is slow Aug 30 12:07:36 * lcuk laughs as someone makes a "cut and colour" hair appointment for me in australia Aug 30 12:08:53 vanadis: card borked? Aug 30 12:09:18 vanadis: new one? Aug 30 12:09:21 dunno Aug 30 12:09:31 it's an old one from my N86 Aug 30 12:09:37 hmm Aug 30 12:09:58 maybe reformating by ubuntu will do the trick Aug 30 12:10:03 yeah Aug 30 12:10:46 in ext3! Aug 30 12:10:48 also a dd if=/dev/zero usually does wonders both to test and to wipe any oddities Aug 30 12:14:54 Nice, nokia firmware downloader doesn't recognize my IMEI. Now what do I do? Aug 30 12:15:35 zap: type it correctly Aug 30 12:15:48 I did, four times Aug 30 12:16:04 what's the number you're typing? Aug 30 12:16:10 give the 6 first numbers Aug 30 12:16:21 356938 Aug 30 12:16:40 wrong Aug 30 12:16:46 it should start with 00:26 Aug 30 12:16:56 you're supposed to type the mac address, not the IMEI, I thought Aug 30 12:16:59 I can make a shot it for you :) Aug 30 12:17:21 it's the mac for N810, for N900 it's IMEI Aug 30 12:17:27 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Aug 30 12:18:13 hmm Aug 30 12:18:17 Ah fsck, I'm not supposed to enter the slashes Aug 30 12:18:19 indeed, imei, mine works though Aug 30 12:18:22 sorry, I'm a dummy Aug 30 12:18:30 zap: go to settings > about product Aug 30 12:18:42 zap: the IMEI is in full numbers without slashes or anything Aug 30 12:18:46 it worked already, sorry and thanks for help Aug 30 12:21:46 Ahem... what's "eMMC content"? The content of the internal card? Aug 30 12:22:14 Can I flash just "RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin" and ignore the "eMMC" image? Aug 30 12:22:27 formatting worked Aug 30 12:22:29 zap: if you want to reflash the rootfs Aug 30 12:22:45 i'd say download both anyway Aug 30 12:23:13 I see here a warning in red about the eMMC image... will it brick my device if I do something wrong? Aug 30 12:23:13 Aug 30 12:23:41 zap: What does the warning say? :) Aug 30 12:23:56 "NOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first ,.,, blah blah" Aug 30 12:24:04 mauku-widget is in an upgrade-loop somehow Aug 30 12:24:08 did you flash the fiasco image first? Aug 30 12:24:12 zap: And why do you have an idea you should not follow that? Aug 30 12:24:13 even after upgrading, it is upgradable again.. Aug 30 12:24:36 X-Fade: "Hi, there's a warning on my medication that I should only take 2 every 24 hours, can I take 4?" Aug 30 12:24:38 X-Fade: because I can't understand how it works :) I'm always tempted not to do something I don't understand Aug 30 12:25:03 zap: On first boot, a lot of rootfs files get moved to opt. Aug 30 12:25:11 zap: Which is located on emmc. Aug 30 12:25:30 aha, that makes sense Aug 30 12:25:57 what the ~180Mb image contains? (not the eMMC one) Aug 30 12:26:10 the rootfs Aug 30 12:26:15 and eMMC image? Aug 30 12:26:21 no Aug 30 12:26:26 (which is about 256Mb) Aug 30 12:26:49 180Mb image contains more than just rootfs Aug 30 12:27:08 modem firmware and bootloader Aug 30 12:27:09 if I understand it correctly, its zimage, initfs and some rootfs stub Aug 30 12:27:25 bootloader, modem firmware. Aug 30 12:27:26 main 1st and 2nd stage bootloader Aug 30 12:27:28 kernel Aug 30 12:27:31 rootfs Aug 30 12:27:42 "Flashing the eMMC and rootfs on your N900 will completely reset the device to factory settings, reverting everything to factory settings, including /home, but again, excepting the external memory." Aug 30 12:27:48 and eMMC image contains just rootfs files? Aug 30 12:27:55 "When flashing the eMMC, all user-created content must also be backed up manually to an external location in order to be preserved (i.e. computer or microSD). The eMMC image will contain the factory setting files and folders (.documents, .images, icons, etc.)." Aug 30 12:28:02 no, that's part of fiasco image Aug 30 12:28:17 crashanddie: well, there is stuff in cal that's left alone even when doing full flash Aug 30 12:28:23 eMMC = external MMC or what? Aug 30 12:28:32 zap: internal 32G memory Aug 30 12:28:43 ah, e stands for internal, dumb me Aug 30 12:28:52 jacekowski: yeah, like the lock code, etc Aug 30 12:28:53 no Aug 30 12:28:59 that's stand for memory type Aug 30 12:29:04 aha Aug 30 12:29:23 it's just a chip soldered there, or its a real card btw? Aug 30 12:29:31 chip Aug 30 12:29:53 and it's on a SD/MMC bus? Aug 30 12:30:08 ah of course, it's /dev/mmcblk* Aug 30 12:30:16 and e stands for Embedded Aug 30 12:30:33 thanks for answering my stupid questions :) Aug 30 12:35:53 i should really fix my romset :< Aug 30 12:36:50 do you think i can fit 250 gb of chds and roms on the n900? Aug 30 12:37:33 kerio: sure, if you have a 320GB uSD card Aug 30 12:37:45 http://school.anhb.uwa.edu.au/personalpages/kwessen/web/images/emate300.jpg Before you tell me Apple products have great design, check out the Emate 300 Aug 30 12:37:45 do they exist? :o Aug 30 12:38:13 pupnik: that ran the same code as the Newton, right? Aug 30 12:38:19 zap: *COMBINED* is rootfs and stuff, you can flash without bothering about eMMC and without losing any data stored on eMMC. *VANILLA* is the eMMC image and you *always* need to flash it together with the *COMBINED* if you care to flash eMMC new Aug 30 12:38:43 DocScrutinizer: thanks for clarifying Aug 30 12:38:53 easy, isn't it? :-) Aug 30 12:39:00 yes, after you said it :) Aug 30 12:39:08 ~debian zap Aug 30 12:39:09 * infobot tells zap to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Aug 30 12:39:23 there's an rtfm about it? Aug 30 12:39:30 sure there is Aug 30 12:39:34 on the maemo wiki Aug 30 12:39:38 at least ;) Aug 30 12:39:42 well anyway irc way is faster ;))) Aug 30 12:39:43 ~flashing Aug 30 12:39:44 i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Aug 30 12:39:57 ~ubuntu zap Aug 30 12:39:57 * infobot lovingly explains to zap in a way that causes zap to weep with gratitude that zap must read the fine, friendly manual Aug 30 12:40:00 kerio: i guess so Aug 30 12:44:07 k001, wiki explained I don't need to flash the eMMC image anyway. Aug 30 12:50:38 zap: tab fail Aug 30 12:51:51 Hmm, i were wondering how i can overclock my n900 after i installed power kernel :o Aug 30 12:51:59 * DangerMaus throws wasabi coated peas at Zap Aug 30 12:52:27 iPeter-: some people told me you need to lubricate the CPU with motorbike chain oil before attempting to overclock it Aug 30 12:52:47 iPeter-: apparently, you can get over 300% extra heat dissipation from it Aug 30 12:52:52 crashanddie: :o Really? Cool. Aug 30 12:53:03 crashanddie: Ill try that. Aug 30 12:53:33 I'm using "FlashWhite" chain oil (as that's what I use for my bike) Aug 30 12:53:38 Haven't noticed any major difference, though. Aug 30 12:54:08 Okay, where i can get that FlasWhite oil? Aug 30 12:54:17 just go to your local Honda dealer, I guess Aug 30 12:54:36 and by a CBF 125 while you're at it Aug 30 12:54:37 Do i put the oil to under battery or wher? Aug 30 12:54:39 definitely a good investment Aug 30 12:55:09 also, guys, did you hear that the Oxford English Dictionary has decided to remove the word "gullible" from the definitions? Aug 30 12:55:19 i'm using special mix with silver thermoconductive paste Aug 30 12:56:00 just have to be careful to don't short anything Aug 30 12:56:31 iPeter-: by the way, if you actually did believe anything we said for the past 4 minutes, please forget it Aug 30 12:56:58 iPeter-: overclocking will most probably kill your device, especially if you listen blindly to everyone like you just did Aug 30 12:57:13 "listen blindly"? Interesting choice of words. Aug 30 12:59:27 if the guy is going down to the honda dealership to buy oil, I'm pissing myself Aug 30 12:59:54 crashanddie: I did add chain oil under my battery and my phone died. Ideas? Aug 30 13:00:03 does anybody already test the nitdroid-installer? Aug 30 13:00:09 defragger: yes Aug 30 13:00:17 defragger: but they're most probably all idling in #nitdroid Aug 30 13:00:45 what do i have to do with the memory card before installing? Aug 30 13:00:49 iPeter-: yep, there may just be a possibility to save you yet Aug 30 13:00:59 defragger: as I said, go ask in #nitdroid Aug 30 13:01:13 kk thanks Aug 30 13:01:16 np Aug 30 13:03:30 oh the painful martyrdom of having a 300GB copy fail when there's 12MB left Aug 30 13:07:12 defragger: did work for some didn't for me, I had to do the partitioning by hand everything else does work fine so far Aug 30 13:08:07 defragger: and NO there is no way of not repartitioning in the current version but it is worked on Aug 30 13:12:39 crashanddie: haha Aug 30 13:13:27 crashanddie: try some resuming protocol :-P Aug 30 13:14:42 iPeter-: use a medical defibrilator, and an infusion of shampoo for greasy hair Aug 30 13:15:14 ~tell iPeter- about omap-oc Aug 30 13:15:45 DocScrutinizer, this is along the same lines as the calculator - ie in need of a core http://liqbase.net/liq.20100830_nokia3210.png Aug 30 13:15:46 crashanddie, clearly you need faster drives. Aug 30 13:15:55 GAN900: clearly Aug 30 13:16:52 crashanddie, just strip out all the 0's from the data Aug 30 13:16:55 it will upload faster Aug 30 13:17:55 hmm Aug 30 13:17:59 can I do that with grep? Aug 30 13:18:47 is there a way for games to install themselves to the eMMC? I'm out of memory on my rootfs Aug 30 13:19:06 and so, for example, westnoth refuses to install itself Aug 30 13:19:10 iPeter-: Pipe 5€, matches 50c, good home grown pot 10€... the world around you being pretty fast (and being stoned like forever)... priceless, for everything else there is MasterCard Aug 30 13:20:15 hi Aug 30 13:20:29 is there any way to FORCE n900 to recharge using a standard microusb cable? Aug 30 13:21:36 drizztbsd connect, select mass storage and or pc suite Aug 30 13:21:41 it should start charging Aug 30 13:21:43 drizztbsd, usually there needs to be some sort of power source on the other end of the cable? Aug 30 13:21:46 what are you connecting to? Aug 30 13:21:56 cheap usb recharger Aug 30 13:22:00 but you could try rolling it up like a toothpaste tube to push the last few electrons out of it Aug 30 13:22:38 drizztbsd, you say usb recharger Aug 30 13:22:47 you mean a little battery cell with a wire that goes in Aug 30 13:23:04 in which case, its possible that the little charger is simply not supplying enough juice Aug 30 13:23:09 try it with a new battery? Aug 30 13:23:33 * lcuk has a AA emergency charger that works with full battery but does nothing otherwise Aug 30 13:23:55 drizztbsd is it a carcharger? Aug 30 13:25:30 drizztbsd: the d+- arent crossed on those so the n900 wont charge Aug 30 13:26:25 Is there an "Alt-Tab" functionality available yet? Aug 30 13:26:32 ebzzry: camkeyd Aug 30 13:26:54 SpeedEvil: will check Aug 30 13:29:11 chem|st: so is it an hardware issue? Aug 30 13:29:53 can you tell us exactly what usb charger you do have drizztbsd ? Aug 30 13:30:00 makes things so much easier Aug 30 13:32:50 drizztbsd: It's a hardware/software issue. Aug 30 13:33:17 hey anyone got HP Pavilion dv2700 here ? Aug 30 13:33:19 The software will not configure the charger to properly charge from a device thart is not a USB host, and that does not conform to the USB charger specification. Aug 30 13:33:47 SpeedEvil: uhm ok, I understand Aug 30 13:34:05 infact the htc of my collegue recharges without any throuble Aug 30 13:34:15 it's only my n900 that does not want to charge Aug 30 13:34:49 HP is crap Aug 30 13:34:52 It's not. Aug 30 13:35:00 It's many other phones that also won't do this. Aug 30 13:35:13 I don't suppose you have a soldering iron, and can open the charger? Aug 30 13:35:16 then it's a trivial mod. Aug 30 13:35:25 - you short the middle two pins of the connector Aug 30 13:35:43 * lcuk would never want to consider charger/power soldering mods as "trivial" Aug 30 13:35:53 I suppose not. Aug 30 13:36:28 I have in the past considered adding extra RAM to my laptop by desoldering the chipset, and soldering on extrra wires and more SIM sockets, so my perspectrive may be screwed. Aug 30 13:36:50 nahh - that would to me seem more trivial in all honesty Aug 30 13:36:59 * lcuk doesnt like PSUs though Aug 30 13:37:03 Umm. Aug 30 13:37:09 they tend to be worse than chips Aug 30 13:37:13 chips let out magic smoke Aug 30 13:37:17 Wiring under a BGA and having it function afterwards != easy. Aug 30 13:37:22 power supplies tent to handle more power Aug 30 13:37:26 Nor wiring on DIMMs. Aug 30 13:37:41 * lcuk used to do SMT repair Aug 30 13:38:11 In principle there is a software mod, but it's not ready yet. Aug 30 13:38:37 An alternative would be an easily modified cable. Aug 30 13:44:16 SpeedEvil: Is camkeyd supposed to invoke the task navigator, only? Aug 30 13:48:16 SpeedEvil: In case I was vague, I was looking for a window switching-navigator, with window cycling. Aug 30 13:49:44 ebzzry: http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/repo.html Aug 30 13:50:44 http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html Aug 30 13:51:06 DocScrutinizer: Does it cycle? Aug 30 13:51:29 DocScrutinizer: Without displaying the thumbnails? Aug 30 13:55:12 I don't know about others, but setting ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav:5 makes me dizzy Aug 30 13:56:42 ebzzry: /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav; The action when ctrl+backspace is pressed while the task navigator is showing is controlled by this integer key: 3.Activate the window that was active almost most recently. (In this mode, use two presses of ctrl+backspace two alternate between two windows). Aug 30 13:57:01 5. ctrl+backspace behaves like alt-tab on desktop (at least on KDE). While ctrl is pressed, every press of backspace rotates the windows. When ctrl is released, the selected (top left) window is activated. Aug 30 13:57:11 DocScrutinizer: Yes, I read that. Aug 30 13:57:35 DocScrutinizer: I came across Matan's stuff several months ago. Aug 30 13:57:48 back Aug 30 13:58:18 there's no app manager anymore on N900? how do I uninstall packages? Aug 30 13:58:19 DocScrutinizer: I'm looking for cycling *without* displaying the thumbnails Aug 30 13:58:25 had to remove battery because my n900 crashed... again Aug 30 14:00:04 ebzzry: so 3. is the one for you, no? Aug 30 14:06:30 damn it Aug 30 14:06:39 when I click share and share via service Aug 30 14:06:54 the application like file manager or media player crashes Aug 30 14:07:02 cool mfe retrieves WRONG contacts birthday Aug 30 14:07:07 (with google) Aug 30 14:07:07 with Internal Error occured Aug 30 14:07:13 ant ideas? Aug 30 14:10:17 DocScrutinizer: No. The proposed solution still does not address the request at hand: no thumbnails. Aug 30 14:21:05 drizztbsd: ( An alternative would be an easily modified cable.) it's dirt easy: carefully open up the outer sleeve of the cable from charger to N900, cut the green and white wire, and connect the green and white end of the wires running to N900 Aug 30 14:21:32 can be done with a sharp knife and a few inches of electric tape or similar Aug 30 14:21:59 no soldering of any kind involved Aug 30 14:24:02 I should note that somewhere Aug 30 14:24:24 what are we doing here? Aug 30 14:24:34 * jpinx-eeepc just got his n900 today Aug 30 14:26:00 your test of love with n900 starts today for the next 6 months :) Aug 30 14:26:17 heh Aug 30 14:26:54 it's on charge, so playtime in anhour or so Aug 30 14:28:39 meh, couln't wait as long. Also no need to postpone first fun until chaging finished Aug 30 14:29:43 even quickstart manual explicitly says 'don't wait' :-) Aug 30 14:30:07 don't wait, don't delay, don't fuck with us Aug 30 14:30:15 (Big Bill Hell) Aug 30 14:32:09 ok ok - I'll make a call ... Aug 30 14:33:39 If your primary use is making calls, you've probably got the wrong device ;) Aug 30 14:34:16 First I'd do is associate it with my WLAN AP. Second: open xterm and do `touch ~/.cherry_state` Aug 30 14:34:29 ? Aug 30 14:34:32 wtf is cherry_state? Aug 30 14:34:38 LOL Aug 30 14:35:00 http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription Aug 30 14:35:01 ha, the my nokia stuff Aug 30 14:35:09 ShadowJK: doesnt register to my nokia if cherry state exists (: Aug 30 14:36:07 3rd thing I'd suggest is simple: open mediaplayer, videos: watch "9" Aug 30 14:36:26 4th: do same with N900 connected to your TV :-D Aug 30 14:37:15 ShadowJK: my useage is sms but simcard and/or skype, wifi internet for irssi/bitlbee, gmail in a browser Aug 30 14:37:51 * jpinx-eeepc hunts for how to connect to a wifi that needs a browser to login Aug 30 14:38:03 duh Aug 30 14:38:55 I cloudy seem to remember that's actually been done by a few brave Aug 30 14:39:38 how would you do it on your laptop? Aug 30 14:40:13 DocScrutinizer: 's ok - got it Aug 30 14:40:20 :-D Aug 30 14:40:26 Just connect, open browser surf to whatever. Aug 30 14:40:34 needed to create the profile for the conenction first Aug 30 14:40:46 now to find irssi Aug 30 14:40:48 yeah x-fade thats how i always do it at hotels Aug 30 14:41:02 Yep, me too. Aug 30 14:41:32 you'd be amazed how many people connect to open wireless networks at hotels and just start browsing facebook Aug 30 14:41:40 how do I get to terminal? Aug 30 14:41:51 and they don't even notice it isn't https when they log-in Aug 30 14:41:58 jpinx-eeepc: ctrl-shift-x Aug 30 14:42:03 jpinx-eeepc: xterm in applauncher Aug 30 14:42:13 got it:D Aug 30 14:42:17 or ^sh-x :-D Aug 30 14:42:45 bugger - irssi not found :( Aug 30 14:43:02 jpinx-eeepc: apt-get install irssi ;) Aug 30 14:43:15 really that easy? cool Aug 30 14:43:25 * DocScrutinizer wonders which pervert thought it might be a good idea to have kbd hotkeys on ctrl+shift+ Aug 30 14:43:26 X-Fade: bitlbee as well? Aug 30 14:43:44 But by the way you sound, you need to install rootme first. Aug 30 14:43:50 try to press that while walking down the street :-P Aug 30 14:44:04 Hrmm just how far can the speakers be damaged by a bass signal? Aug 30 14:44:21 s/rootme/rootsh/ Aug 30 14:44:21 X-Fade meant: But by the way you sound, you need to install rootsh first. Aug 30 14:44:30 jpinx-eeepc: first you'll want to install rootsh from hildon appmanager Aug 30 14:45:06 this is a 2nd hand n900 - I need to check if it's there already Aug 30 14:45:19 MNZ: without Nokia special pulseaudio filter: completely. with it, not at all (supposedly) Aug 30 14:45:53 DocScrutinizer, completely as in no-more-worky-whatsoever? Aug 30 14:46:03 MNZ: yep Aug 30 14:46:17 DocScrutinizer: Was my point clear? Aug 30 14:46:31 completely as in "magic blue smoke escaping" Aug 30 14:46:43 DocScrutinizer, I just stumbled into this a few minutes ago, never knew that Aug 30 14:46:46 ebzzry: yup. Sorry dudue, no idea Aug 30 14:46:49 nail it to the wall Aug 30 14:46:56 Hi. Is there any way I can set a global proxy in maemo ( N900 )? Aug 30 14:47:22 DocScrutinizer: OK Aug 30 14:47:36 Are there any more caveats I need to know such that I don't blow up my n900 while hacking on the codec driver? Aug 30 14:47:56 MNZ: oooh. Aug 30 14:48:05 MNZ: hmm, lemme think Aug 30 14:48:13 * jpinx-eeepc needs stronger glasses Aug 30 14:49:27 MNZ: make sure you're not messing with I2C in any nasty way. I.E know your bus#, chip addr, and registers. Aug 30 14:50:01 DocScrutinizer, yeah got that covered by using the already laid out i2c code in the driver Aug 30 14:50:12 MNZ: but other than that, nothing I'd be aware of Aug 30 14:50:56 I'm wondering if there are any caveats with routing the audio signal directly into the FM transmitter Aug 30 14:50:57 play some r'n'b Aug 30 14:51:16 MNZ: nothing known Aug 30 14:51:37 should be painless Aug 30 14:52:00 My dad's gonna kill me the second he sees any smoke Aug 30 14:52:08 is it *his* n900? Aug 30 14:52:19 kerio, mine, but it's not exactly cheap Aug 30 14:52:29 maybe check for correct level, you might drive it into clipping which isn't exactly a nice thing to do on TX Aug 30 14:52:58 get it repaired under warranty if it happens :) Aug 30 14:53:30 otoh on the 5nW it operates it's largely irrelevant what you do to it, no matter what Aug 30 14:53:32 haha I don't think the warranty covers damages due to bad haxor skillz Aug 30 14:53:48 MNZ: yeah but they don't have to know Aug 30 14:54:10 kerio, lets just hope it does have to get to that. Aug 30 14:54:27 DocScrutinizer, ok thanks, slightly more reassured now Aug 30 14:54:42 MNZ: actually it should cover damage done by any software means Aug 30 14:54:45 work in ram! :D Aug 30 14:54:52 btw, last night I was in a bar and some group of nerds had the laptops out and phones and stuff Aug 30 14:55:03 DocScrutinizer: huh? even if i spam .5s maximum flashes every .6 seconds? Aug 30 14:55:11 one of them was ranting about the N900, how he had python and ssh on it, and was claiming it was "100% open) Aug 30 14:55:13 though - on second thought - scratch that comment. Aug 30 14:55:14 or if i disable PA's sw equalizer? Aug 30 14:55:26 or if i overclock it? Aug 30 14:55:28 :) Aug 30 14:55:33 I came round, and dropped liqflow on the table, then said "100% open, are you sure about that?" Aug 30 14:55:36 haha Aug 30 14:55:40 you're evil Aug 30 14:55:52 crashanddie, hissss! boooooo! Aug 30 14:55:55 "find me the source of bme"? Aug 30 14:56:17 he replied "Yeah, it's linux, you can change everything" Aug 30 14:56:27 crashanddie: people have different understandings of open Aug 30 14:56:29 Then I asked him if he tried to synch gmail through MfE Aug 30 14:56:39 crashanddie: but yeah.. Aug 30 14:56:40 :P Aug 30 14:56:55 even with sane understandings of the word, it's still not 100% Aug 30 14:56:56 They thoroughly enjoyed liqflow though Aug 30 14:57:08 I even got free beer! Thanks lcuk! Aug 30 14:57:40 LOL Aug 30 14:58:08 next step: get laid by showing off N900 :-P Aug 30 14:58:13 I thought liqflow was just a lib... apt-getting now Aug 30 14:58:16 a lot of nerds hope that their cool-geekiness will get them some tail, I figure that beer is the best thing we'll ever get Aug 30 14:58:27 (from the n900) Aug 30 14:58:42 crashanddie: my cool-geekiness got me married, so it does work at times Aug 30 14:58:42 :P Aug 30 14:58:51 well, married isn't tail mate Aug 30 14:58:55 it just means lack of tail, really Aug 30 14:59:03 DocScrutinizer: I have to log out of here to get the wifi connected to the n900 - no sharing allowed:( so what do I need to install to get irssi and bitlbee up and running? Aug 30 14:59:13 * DocScrutinizer cackles evilly Aug 30 14:59:40 crashanddie: libqflow? Aug 30 15:00:28 kerio: liqflow, an app lcuk wrote that shows particles you can animate and that move based on the orientation and are coloured/resized based on the acceleration of the device Aug 30 15:00:30 rootsh from app manager, then type 'root' in exterm to gain root access, then apt-get update, apt-get install Aug 30 15:00:42 jpinx-eeepc: ^^^ Aug 30 15:00:48 liqflow is ffuuuuunnn Aug 30 15:00:48 how does other OS'es handle 'sample media'? Aug 30 15:00:53 do they just hardlink the media or? Aug 30 15:01:18 MNZ: shake your device, move it sideways Aug 30 15:01:20 MNZ: is it possible to route calls to fm transmitter? Aug 30 15:01:23 jpinx-eeepc: apt-get install irssi; to be precise Aug 30 15:01:25 MNZ: it will modify how the particles move Aug 30 15:01:32 no idea bout bitlboom Aug 30 15:01:44 MNZ: also, leave the n900 on your desk and tap on the table Aug 30 15:01:54 when fm-transmitter is enable i think route everything Aug 30 15:01:58 MNZ: presently i have to use an external fm transmitter to do that, sucks! Aug 30 15:02:02 i mean transmitte everything Aug 30 15:02:05 DocScrutinizer: ok - appmanager shows nothing but "add shortcut, Add contact, etc" Aug 30 15:02:25 nah, that's not appmanager Aug 30 15:02:27 bitlbee is cute Aug 30 15:02:29 E0x: no it doesnt route the calls to the fm transmitter Aug 30 15:02:49 Anything can be routed to the FM transmitter Aug 30 15:02:55 jpinx-eeepc: you find appmanager in appstarter Aug 30 15:02:58 because everything goes through the codec anyway Aug 30 15:03:12 MNZ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 Aug 30 15:03:25 crashanddie, yup trying all that Aug 30 15:03:29 MNZ: The software doesnt do that presently in PR 1.2 Aug 30 15:03:46 trumee: eeh? Aug 30 15:04:03 trumee: I thought it does Aug 30 15:04:18 DocScrutinizer: I don't fidn anything like AppStarter Aug 30 15:04:21 I don't really know, I just tried the transmitter once as a test, that's all Aug 30 15:04:27 DocScrutinizer: the calls are not routed to the fm transmitter iirc. let me confirm that again. Aug 30 15:04:34 jpinx-eeepc: you opened the appstarter menu? Aug 30 15:04:43 err, Aug 30 15:04:54 eh? Aug 30 15:04:58 jpinx-eeepc: click upper left corner icon 2 times Aug 30 15:05:50 DocScrutinizer: nopes they arent. Aug 30 15:06:20 aaah calls, ok missed that Aug 30 15:06:33 DocScrutinizer: i made a sip call and then turned on the fm transmitter. N900 still carried on with the audio. Aug 30 15:06:35 damn, I'd be so pissed if it did :-P Aug 30 15:06:38 the 6 little squares, click once and it gives me a load of icons - including App manager Aug 30 15:07:32 MNZ: is there any hack to route the calls over fm transmitter? Aug 30 15:07:45 jpinx-eeepc: so now you found the place to install rootsh, plus a lot of other nice stuff Aug 30 15:07:46 DocScrutinizer: that gives "operation failed" presumably cos I'm not online? Aug 30 15:07:54 yup Aug 30 15:08:07 ok Aug 30 15:08:22 * jpinx-eeepc scrolls back for the destructions..... Aug 30 15:08:23 trumee, AFAIK all audio goes through the same codec chip, so yes, once I get audio routing to the FM transmitter done in hardware, then everything would be routed Aug 30 15:09:10 Although I have thought of this point before, and now that you mention it, I don't really think it's what a user would expect Aug 30 15:09:31 MNZ: probably policy enforcer will override your nice effort whenever a call starts Aug 30 15:10:00 DocScrutinizer, policy enforcer = ? Aug 30 15:10:11 MNZ, it will be useful to have a toggle button to switch between the two. Aug 30 15:10:18 the PA analogon to alsactl Aug 30 15:11:17 hrmm, yeah. PA is on my to-hack list though, will see about that when I come to it Aug 30 15:12:09 trumee, why do you want to transmit calls on FM though? Aug 30 15:12:18 you realize anyone can tune in? :D Aug 30 15:12:33 (ok not really, the range is tiny) Aug 30 15:12:38 MNZ, because i want the audio out through the car speakers. Aug 30 15:13:20 MNZ, and i dont like carrying that casette adaptor with me. Aug 30 15:15:52 MNZ: /etc/pulse/* , e.g xpolicy.conf Aug 30 15:17:00 DocScrutinizer, thanks Aug 30 15:18:22 MNZ: /usr/share/alsa Aug 30 15:19:34 MNZ: /usr/share/maemo-statusmenu-volume Aug 30 15:20:16 ah, this will come in handy Aug 30 15:20:44 Hrmmph I can't find any info on the FM transmitter though. And it's not mentioned on the i2c bus page in the wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Bus_I2c Aug 30 15:21:57 MNZ: /usr/share/policy Aug 30 15:21:59 And the receiver is mentioned twice, under 2 different buses Aug 30 15:22:43 umm Aug 30 15:23:35 that's a 'typo' Aug 30 15:24:44 MNZ: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter Aug 30 15:25:07 DocScrutinizer, ah thanks! Aug 30 15:26:16 GAN900: clearly, hard drives aren't the issue -- Apple just need to fix finder crashing whenever you're copying from ntfs to hfs+ and copying more than 256GB worth of data Aug 30 15:26:27 MNZ: ask jacekowski - he knows how to mess around with FMTX :-D Aug 30 15:26:59 crashanddie, interesting. Aug 30 15:27:04 DocScrutinizer, will keep that in mind. Luckily I probably don't need to mess around with it, just need to know how it's connected to the codec Aug 30 15:27:30 GAN900: and this is not just a little "failed to copy crash", this is a whole "finder going down, and refuses to start up again, forcing the whole system to a grinding halt" Aug 30 15:27:34 MNZ: hmm, you got the schamtics? Aug 30 15:27:37 Is it just me, or is MicroB's portrait detection mostly just a wildcard for any accelerometer input at all. Aug 30 15:27:43 schematics* Aug 30 15:27:47 crashanddie, what error? Aug 30 15:27:57 GAN900: beats me, i'm not using dat Aug 30 15:28:07 DocScrutinizer, are the n900 schematics available or what? Aug 30 15:28:08 GAN900: application finder can't be opened 10810 Aug 30 15:28:15 MNZ: yep Aug 30 15:28:20 huh! Aug 30 15:28:23 crashanddie, ah, yeah, that's an evil one. Aug 30 15:28:31 MNZ: not legally Aug 30 15:28:43 luke-jr, oh. But does it matter really? Aug 30 15:28:46 yes Aug 30 15:28:48 Browsing my N900 triggers that one every so often. Aug 30 15:28:52 why? Aug 30 15:28:53 MNZ: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic Aug 30 15:28:55 … Aug 30 15:29:28 MNZ: because the law must be obeyed. Aug 30 15:29:40 GAN900: problem is, the guy whose HD I'm copying from is leaving for another city tomorrow morning... I need to copy everything off it or I'm losing data, lol Aug 30 15:29:47 luke-jr: it's legal in antarctica!!1! Aug 30 15:29:47 crashanddie: dd Aug 30 15:29:50 luke-jr, it's not like they are stolen from secret underground nokia labs (they aren't right?) Aug 30 15:29:55 nomis: I don't live there Aug 30 15:29:56 kerio: no time -- it's almost 6PM Aug 30 15:30:02 MNZ: irrelevant. Aug 30 15:30:04 crashanddie, divide it in half! Aug 30 15:30:07 OMG Aug 30 15:30:09 rsync Aug 30 15:30:11 GAN900: is what I did Aug 30 15:30:25 luke-jr, is it illegal to open up a device you own and look at how it's wired? Aug 30 15:30:33 MNZ: that's different. Aug 30 15:30:35 luke-jr: stop telling nonsense. There's no such law in western world that prohibits me to download schematics Aug 30 15:30:42 I'm comparing the directory it was processing at time of crash to try and find where the file copy crashed Aug 30 15:30:50 DocScrutinizer: true, it would prohibit the remote party from uploading it to you Aug 30 15:30:53 DocScrutinizer: arent schematics protected by copyright law? Aug 30 15:31:02 luke-jr: exactly Aug 30 15:31:06 Corsac: strictly speaking, it's not illegal to download copyrighted materials Aug 30 15:31:09 find -type f -not -exec cmp {} /Volumes/Projects/{} ftw Aug 30 15:31:13 Corsac: just to upload Aug 30 15:31:18 Corsac: so what? I'm not copying Aug 30 15:31:38 Do the copyright laws protect schematics made by someone who doesn't own the design? (by opening and examining it) Aug 30 15:31:39 DocScrutinizer: technicaly, you're storing on your computer when visualising Aug 30 15:31:39 It does say confidential Aug 30 15:31:50 meh Aug 30 15:31:52 So I believe it's more or less illegal Aug 30 15:31:55 I say "nice XP" Aug 30 15:32:00 MNZ: copyright is pretty straight forward Aug 30 15:32:01 XP? Aug 30 15:32:07 DocScrutinizer: what's windows go to do with anything? Aug 30 15:32:10 smiley Aug 30 15:32:12 ah Aug 30 15:32:15 lol Aug 30 15:32:16 How much the company officially cares about that being spread around is another story. Aug 30 15:32:29 crashanddie: transfers necessary to use isn't covered by copyright Aug 30 15:32:40 I don't think they care. It's not really rocket science Aug 30 15:32:40 luke-jr: I know, just pressing buttons Aug 30 15:32:41 DocScrutinizer: ok - I get an error, basically - Encountered a section with no Package header. problem with mergelist /var/lib/apt/listss/downloads.maemo.nokia.com_fremantle_ssu_003_._Packages The package lists or status filescould not be parsed or opened Aug 30 15:32:46 MNZ: if you're not copying, copyright doesn't apply Aug 30 15:33:00 DocScrutinizer: any ideas? Aug 30 15:33:10 luke-jr: it's like the guy who put a copyright on a billboard and claimed people watching the billboard were infringing his copyright Aug 30 15:33:11 luke-jr, ah. Well then I'm not Aug 30 15:33:15 luke-jr: that guy got nuked out of orbit Aug 30 15:33:27 jpinx-eeepc: you'll maybe want to update to current OS version PR1.2 Aug 30 15:33:41 DocScrutinizer: any tips on howto? Aug 30 15:33:48 ~flash Aug 30 15:33:49 well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Aug 30 15:34:37 mnz http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Bus_I2c#Bus_2 - fixed Aug 30 15:34:52 :-) Aug 30 15:35:05 personally, I think the law should make it mandatory for distributing source code for anything you buy ) Aug 30 15:35:07 ☺ Aug 30 15:35:22 so buying a N900 means you'd get the full schematics of it and any components Aug 30 15:35:25 Including washing machines andmicrowaves. Aug 30 15:36:06 DocScrutinizer: what a pita! Aug 30 15:36:08 * DocScrutinizer has microwaves in his brain - that hurts :-S Aug 30 15:36:47 jpinx-eeepc: you said you're not sure about the state of SW on the device, no? Aug 30 15:36:52 anyhow Aug 30 15:37:07 is it possible to do video chat from Kubuntu to N900? Aug 30 15:37:09 at all? Aug 30 15:37:11 or was that somebody else? Aug 30 15:37:39 DocScrutinizer: is there a way to check the state of the software, _version or somesuch? Aug 30 15:37:54 settings - product info Aug 30 15:38:05 hzm, I installed telepathy-extras and account-plugin-salut and now I seem to be having Wifi connection problems. Sound familiar to anyone? Aug 30 15:39:10 jpinx-eeepc: sorry, my brain has a malfunction atm - you bought the used device? or the fresh one off the shelf? Aug 30 15:40:21 SpeedEvil, are you aware of any other caveats (like the speakers' inability to handle bass) affecting the audio stack and fmtx? Aug 30 15:40:22 DocScrutinizer: used -- from "About Product" Nokia N900, Maemo5, Version 10.2010.19-1.003 wlan mac etc etc Aug 30 15:41:11 seems reasonably recent, but then you dunno what 'tweaks' were done to the system. I suggest fresh install, according to ~flashing Aug 30 15:41:24 ahem Aug 30 15:41:28 am I able to update/upgrade? Aug 30 15:41:28 infobot, flashing Aug 30 15:41:29 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Aug 30 15:41:32 infobot, gtfo Aug 30 15:41:33 Sorry sir, I won't bother you anymore. Aug 30 15:42:17 DocScrutinizer: that flshing process looks like a real pita Aug 30 15:42:39 it's actually simple, if you don't let it scare you off Aug 30 15:42:48 not at all Aug 30 15:42:56 and if you got a decent PC to do the flashing Aug 30 15:43:25 DocScrutinizer: eeepc ? Aug 30 15:43:38 errr, better not Aug 30 15:43:53 why not Aug 30 15:43:54 unless it's a linux eeePC Aug 30 15:44:06 debian lenny Aug 30 15:44:09 fine Aug 30 15:44:41 completely painless I'd expect Aug 30 15:45:03 ok ok - I'll go and re-read it more carefully ;) Aug 30 15:45:20 * jpinx-eeepc /lastlogs this ... Aug 30 15:45:55 DocScrutinizer: as an aside - is there an onscreen qwerty when in terminal (using irssi) Aug 30 15:45:57 you just need to download the images and flasher tool from Nokia, and then issue the two flasher commands in a root shell Aug 30 15:46:52 err, yes. there's always an onscreen qwerty vkbd Aug 30 15:46:55 yea - I get the principles of the flashing process - I'll read the detail and maybe gete some sleep first - it's late here ;) Aug 30 15:47:11 k, nite Aug 30 15:47:21 OoH - How do I get the onscreen qwerty Aug 30 15:47:32 (vkbd) enable in setting - keybord Aug 30 15:47:32 it's bad Aug 30 15:47:33 the little keys are mental! Aug 30 15:47:35 don't do it Aug 30 15:47:37 settings - text input Aug 30 15:47:42 noooo Aug 30 15:47:52 kerio: why? Aug 30 15:47:59 it sucks Aug 30 15:48:01 seriously, the vkb is k Aug 30 15:48:14 the 1.1 one was better Aug 30 15:48:17 but... it's k Aug 30 15:48:28 ok - how do i disable it if i don't like it? ;) Aug 30 15:48:41 just don't use it :-) Aug 30 15:48:49 MNZ: Simply not blocking other applications using audio Aug 30 15:48:53 I think that's about it Aug 30 15:50:45 can't get it to come up:( Aug 30 15:51:07 it's set but when I go to a terminal there is no vkbd Aug 30 15:51:13 MNZ: if you're going to implement additional controls to alsamixer, make damn sure you add them *to the end* - some braindamaged apps might access controls via control-number Aug 30 15:51:14 Oh well, removing telepathy-extras and account-plugin-salut fixed Wifi again. Aug 30 15:51:39 jpinx-eeepc: enable in settings, close slider, click input area Aug 30 15:52:50 Eeewww Aug 30 15:52:55 lol Aug 30 15:53:41 DocScrutinizer, heh, will note that Aug 30 15:54:04 wtf is the delete? Aug 30 15:54:27 SpeedEvil, I don't think there will be any blocking as I'm simply adding more controls to alsa Aug 30 15:55:18 MNZ: yeah - I mean the gerneral case of screwing withaudio. Aug 30 15:55:27 MNZ: What are you thinking of? Aug 30 15:55:38 MNZ: Fullblown EQ? Aug 30 15:56:00 SpeedEvil, I don't think that will be fully possible Aug 30 15:56:09 Why not? Aug 30 15:56:14 I thought it had a FIR filter. Aug 30 15:56:31 Surely you can just do the maths to go from EQ settings to FIR coefficients. Aug 30 15:57:20 kerio: you were right - it's not wonderful, several keys not working, etc Aug 30 15:57:23 SpeedEvil, for one thing, I'm can't figure out the math for it. (I'm a high school student, starting college in about 2 weeks) Aug 30 15:57:29 Ah. Aug 30 15:57:35 Is it really a FIR? Aug 30 15:58:25 Of course google might help alleviate this problem. There's also a coefficient calculator by TI Aug 30 15:58:40 but that would allow me to create a sort of presets and just hard code the numbers only Aug 30 15:59:42 derf, yes it is Aug 30 15:59:53 IIRC Aug 30 15:59:58 MNZ: Not really Aug 30 16:00:24 MNZ: The superposition of the coefficients is the superposition of the response. Aug 30 16:00:30 Unless I'm confused. Aug 30 16:00:48 And anyway, you'd put the calculator in the kernel. Aug 30 16:01:40 SpeedEvil, I have just recently found out what FIR is anyway. And I understand I need to implement a way to calculate the coefficients, yes. Aug 30 16:02:52 Someone who knows the math should just do this part :/ Aug 30 16:03:43 :) Aug 30 16:04:53 is that a ":) I'll help out!" or ":) good luck" or ":) I do know the math but I'm too lazy" or something else entirely :-D? Aug 30 16:05:22 It's a 'I have little more clue than in the above sentances'. Aug 30 16:05:27 I've never done it. Aug 30 16:05:43 DocScrutinizer: ok - which of the OS images applies ? Aug 30 16:05:56 COMBINED Aug 30 16:06:31 and *VANILLA* Aug 30 16:06:47 usually you'll want the global version Aug 30 16:07:22 the most recent one of GLOBAL, for both Aug 30 16:07:46 Third Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 Aug 30 16:08:12 Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 Aug 30 16:08:45 Latest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N900 Aug 30 16:08:47 NOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first, then the eMMC image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image! When flashing eMMC always also flash FIASCO rootfs - NEVER boot the device between the two flashes. Aug 30 16:08:55 wtf is all tha about? Aug 30 16:09:24 bah Aug 30 16:09:43 fiasco is about right ;) Aug 30 16:09:53 it's just "you need to flash COMBINED as well, whenever you flash VANILLA" Aug 30 16:10:15 where COMBINED == rootfs and stuff, VANILLA == eMMC image Aug 30 16:10:24 what's FIASCO? Aug 30 16:10:36 a fiasko Aug 30 16:11:28 so what am i flashing first? Aug 30 16:11:31 Some inventive naming some Nokia drones came to choose after 7 beer I guess Aug 30 16:11:46 *I* suggest you flash VANILLA first Aug 30 16:11:48 fiasco/combined/vanilla? Aug 30 16:11:53 anyways Aug 30 16:11:56 don't use -R Aug 30 16:12:07 anyway ommit the -b parameter on all your flasher invocations Aug 30 16:12:13 err -R Aug 30 16:12:13 -R* Aug 30 16:12:31 hmm Aug 30 16:12:49 jpinx-eeepc: there's no fiasco image actually Aug 30 16:13:01 they are called COMBINED and VANILLA Aug 30 16:13:16 someone should modify flasher to make it display a lolcat saying deprecated on NOLO when -R is used :P Aug 30 16:13:22 sometimes fiasco is used as a synonym for COMBINED Aug 30 16:13:28 sudo dpkg -i Aug 30 16:13:41 --force-architecture if it's x64 Aug 30 16:13:51 but if it's an eeepc, doubtful Aug 30 16:13:53 i686 here Aug 30 16:14:09 Nolo == embarassing in Finnish Aug 30 16:14:29 hehe, like Moko in Spanish? :-P Aug 30 16:15:19 there has to be an evil spirited dude somewhere at Nokia, inventing all those names Aug 30 16:15:56 so - when the device connects to my eeepc, what will I see it as in Debian? Aug 30 16:16:19 does it come up as a filesystem or a device ? Aug 30 16:16:39 nope, it shouldn't Aug 30 16:16:39 and how will it know where to find teh images I downloaded? Aug 30 16:16:43 yeah, nolo is an excellent name :D Aug 30 16:18:12 jpinx-eeepc: the full path+file name of the image you pass to flasher on commandline will do that trick Aug 30 16:19:33 so "sudo dpkg -i " should read "sudo dpkg -i "? Aug 30 16:19:46 yep Aug 30 16:20:31 thanks DocScrutinizer - I hope I got the right ones and I'll sleep a while and do it when I'm fresher Aug 30 16:20:44 g'nite:) Aug 30 16:20:50 cya Aug 30 16:23:49 helo pretties Aug 30 16:25:00 yhey RST38h Aug 30 16:26:42 hmm, just reflashed my n900 Aug 30 16:27:10 Corsac: how is existance? Aug 30 16:27:13 it's damn fast without any 3rd party applications Aug 30 16:28:20 RST38h: amazingly weird Aug 30 16:32:59 as soon as one third party app is installed you can say adios to the speed of it >.< Aug 30 16:33:35 at least i get the impression somehow Aug 30 16:35:27 I've never found that personally. Aug 30 16:35:37 But I run powertop after every install. Aug 30 16:36:06 why powertop? Aug 30 16:36:19 for me it is more a huge I/O bottleneck at times Aug 30 16:36:27 To see if any program is running when idle Aug 30 16:37:04 i think when it really annoys me i will do the same Aug 30 16:37:45 but now i'll look how custom-kernel and stock are doing at 250-600 Aug 30 16:38:11 i think i either took my voltages too low for my custom or i dunno... Aug 30 16:39:03 SpeedEvil: are you using the devel-repo? Aug 30 16:39:07 is it possible to do video chat from Kubuntu to N900 at all? Aug 30 16:39:33 RST38h: existing Aug 30 16:41:54 mikki-kun: yes. Aug 30 16:42:05 (running when idle) petrovic borked 1s after start 2 days ago, yesterday on wondering why it never stops pulling massive current from charger I found petrovic still around and eating CPU: 100% @ 600MHz :-/ Aug 30 16:42:42 cheers powertop ant htop Aug 30 16:42:46 and* Aug 30 16:42:57 hm, shouldn't htop be already helpful enough? Aug 30 16:43:08 htop + screen >>>>htop Aug 30 16:43:52 not really in all aspects - e.g. htop doesn't show the CPU clock afaik Aug 30 16:43:53 meh, screen not needed Aug 30 16:44:05 so 100%@??? doesn't mean much Aug 30 16:44:08 Sure. Aug 30 16:44:18 It'd be nice if it showed in htop. Aug 30 16:44:20 (freq) Aug 30 16:44:21 at least after a while it could eat cpu time Aug 30 16:44:28 Has anyone bricked n900 with overclocking it? What is safe to use? i self did put 850MHz Aug 30 16:44:41 mikki-kun: without screen, it uses _lots_ more power - reven over wifi with powersave Aug 30 16:44:52 iPeter-: what for do you need the 850 all the time? Aug 30 16:45:02 iPeter-: Perhaps. Aug 30 16:45:19 20%@??? even less helpfull, esp since petrovic wasn't always on top of CPU usage Aug 30 16:45:23 iPeter-, 600's safe :p Aug 30 16:45:31 * slonopotamus runs his n900@1.1GHz and ftw Aug 30 16:45:32 iPeter-: The problem is that the question is how many of those people would have reoported it vs go back to nokia and requested a replacement device. Aug 30 16:45:38 though 600 is already OC'ing from nokia Aug 30 16:45:44 600 is not OCing. Aug 30 16:45:48 ~tell ipeter about omap-oc Aug 30 16:45:48 600 is in spec. Aug 30 16:45:58 It's simply the spec states a limited life. Aug 30 16:46:03 ~tell iPeter- about omap-oc Aug 30 16:46:23 ~omap-oc Aug 30 16:46:24 somebody said omap-oc was http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that! Aug 30 16:46:56 SpeedEvil: "Nokia's overclocking warning: 500 MHz is the normal frequency. Everything above is not good for your device, even with the stock kernel." - http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking_N900 Aug 30 16:48:05 It's not overclocking. Aug 30 16:48:17 Overclocking is using the device beyond the manufacturers recommendations. Aug 30 16:48:32 If you are using it at 600MHz with the stock software, it is not overclocking. Aug 30 16:48:38 'and any clock >600MHz will wear out your CPU at a rate of maybe 10% per week, maybe faster' what a fud... Aug 30 16:48:51 lol Aug 30 16:48:52 btw, what can i do when i have problems with python on my n900? i tried reinstalling the problematic packages, yet it didn't solve the problem http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60982 Aug 30 16:48:55 It - TI says - has a limited life - but it's not overclocking as such. Aug 30 16:49:01 Ill clock it back to 600 -.- Aug 30 16:49:13 is 250 / 600 good? Aug 30 16:49:14 Some of the wording in that article is overly strong. Aug 30 16:49:18 what is defaults? Aug 30 16:49:25 iPeter-: 250-600 is default Aug 30 16:49:30 Okay Aug 30 16:49:32 Ill set it Aug 30 16:49:52 though at times you can OC, but then after you have done the job take it back to 600 Aug 30 16:50:04 But the only people that know - perhaps engineering teams at TI - aren't telling. Aug 30 16:50:14 The same chip is also produced in 750MHz speed-grade. Aug 30 16:50:38 It could simply be that rating some parts to 600 is a marketing decision, and all parts can really go 750 just fine. Aug 30 16:50:39 SpeedEvil: at 750 and 700 my browser became pretty unstable, reloaded the page all the time... Aug 30 16:50:44 SpeedEvil: so you say 250 / 750 should be fine? Aug 30 16:50:44 We don't know - there is no data. Aug 30 16:50:45 how soon n900 @1.1Ghz is expected to die, dear #maemo overclocking experts? Aug 30 16:50:58 It could also be that most parts overrclocked to 800 for a week will fail. Aug 30 16:51:03 No datra. Aug 30 16:51:37 slonopotamus: I will anse rthat for you if you send me funds to buy 100 n900s for a good statistical survey. Aug 30 16:51:41 mikki-kun: At 705MHz, mine reboots after about 45 minutes Aug 30 16:51:53 though 1000 would be better statistically. Aug 30 16:52:01 Jaffa: hm, tbh i've never OC'ed longer than for 10 mins Aug 30 16:52:13 if you don't have an answer, please, shut up and stop saying you know how overclocking affects n900 life Aug 30 16:52:19 that's usually a youtube-vids duration Aug 30 16:52:28 * Jaffa hopes for a multi-core, multi-GHz chip in the N9 :-/ Aug 30 16:52:39 haha Aug 30 16:52:44 imagine the battery life Aug 30 16:52:45 slonopotamus: beware, they might have a time machine so they know from observing the future. Aug 30 16:52:47 Jaffa: uhhhh, and how long should that last? Aug 30 16:52:52 6 mins working time? Aug 30 16:52:53 slonopotamus: No-one knows, every single N900 seems *very* different. Some seem to run at 1.15GHz very happily; mine doesn't. Aug 30 16:53:10 mikki-kun: It's a whole new stack, it'll be fantastic. *cough* Aug 30 16:53:15 Jaffa: same here, at 1.15 it just dies... Aug 30 16:53:16 hahahaha i know right mikki-kun Aug 30 16:54:03 So theres no good everyday use OC, than original clocks? Aug 30 16:54:03 Jaffa: have you tried looking for your n900's "stable" lower cpu-voltages? Aug 30 16:55:33 iPeter-: i think the guys @ TI do have a reason saying it only 'should be' run @ 600 Aug 30 16:56:03 ok Aug 30 16:56:10 i mean a cpu which goes to 1.15 is something really awesome imo Aug 30 16:56:37 they can push prices and also get some fame with that imo Aug 30 16:57:27 Jaffa, the fact that not all chips run stable under same voltage/freq combination is expected since they're not identical. but you usually see that very soon (they either not boot at all or start bugging under high load) Aug 30 16:58:25 Jaffa: btw, i prefer a multi-chip solution ;) Aug 30 16:58:40 there are speeds which work for everyone, and speeds which a few dedicated sat in fridge type people can get to. when Ti and Nokia started selling this device which do you think they used? Aug 30 16:58:44 err... the fact that bla-bla is known and noone argues it. Aug 30 16:58:47 so that there are two physical cpus... that makes stuff look awesome imo Aug 30 16:59:47 lcuk, sure. nb, not a single word of 'OC will destroy your n900!!!one!111!!' Aug 30 17:00:03 "Office 2011 for Mac (beta 5 at least) uses Freetype" Aug 30 17:01:00 the n900 has to survive in ambient temps with a wider range than lots of people see daily Aug 30 17:01:14 in hot weather, you hear about computer outages for a reason Aug 30 17:01:59 * luke-jr ponders using qemu-arm to run telepathy-spirit on Ubuntu Aug 30 17:03:06 ARGHHHHH Starting to hate my n900. Randomly closes a web window as I am buying something on amazon. now i don't know if the purchase has gone through or not!! Aug 30 17:03:26 lcuk, sure. that doesn't mean OC is dangerous for each and every device Aug 30 17:04:06 slonopotamus, it does mean it has to be accounted for though. Aug 30 17:04:36 lcuk, i'll easier believe in death caused by overheating Aug 30 17:05:44 luke-jr, skype thing? Aug 30 17:06:28 technomike_phone: I had that happen once. Aug 30 17:06:35 technomike_phone: I ended up with 38 printers. Aug 30 17:06:38 slonopotamus: yeah Aug 30 17:06:44 I refused all but one delivery. Aug 30 17:06:54 luke-jr, i doubt it'll be open ever Aug 30 17:07:06 doesn't have to be Aug 30 17:07:51 technomike_phone: the obvious solution that presents itself would be to check your email? Aug 30 17:08:02 slonopotamus: hence qemu-arm Aug 30 17:08:37 luke-jr, doesn't it link to other telepathy libs? Aug 30 17:08:46 slonopotamus: does telepathy use libs? ;) Aug 30 17:08:58 IIRC telepathy agents are executables Aug 30 17:09:17 orly? Aug 30 17:11:06 luke-jr, how its process is called? Aug 30 17:11:16 I give up... Aug 30 17:11:20 slonopotamus: dunno Aug 30 17:11:52 luke-jr, /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-spirit is linked to lots of stuff Aug 30 17:15:29 slonopotamus: is it? :| Aug 30 17:18:54 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=596286#post596286 Aug 30 17:19:07 luke-jr, wtf, you use kubuntu?! Aug 30 17:19:15 slonopotamus: ^^^ (how soon n900 @1.1Ghz is expected to die, dear #maemo overclocking experts?) Aug 30 17:19:23 slonopotamus: on my SSD netbook Aug 30 17:20:33 slonopotamus: answer: 5 years / 2^5 Aug 30 17:21:37 maybe much faster, as the deterioration rate isn't even simple factor2/100MHz, it's even steper Aug 30 17:21:43 steper Aug 30 17:21:52 damn steeeeper Aug 30 17:21:52 DocScrutinizer, what if it doesn't after twice that period? Aug 30 17:23:32 then you're still well within statistics, and also this obviously depends on how long your device actually was *clocked* at the different speeds, not hpow long it was sitting in the shelf off collecting dust or idling @ zero clock Aug 30 17:24:31 DocScrutinizer: may i ask where you have that number from? Aug 30 17:26:13 I'd expect the hours @ to calculate like that: 600=nominal (44k), 700=nominal/(2), 800=nominal/(2*4), 900=nominal/(2*4*8) Aug 30 17:26:50 rather than 700=n/(2), 800=n(2*2), 900=n/(2*2*2) Aug 30 17:26:56 DocScrutinizer, so, how often your n900 runs at max freq? let's s// it with 1.1ghz, calculate using that formula, come to conclusion that result is >4 years and overclocking is ok to use :) Aug 30 17:28:10 mikki-kun: Aug 30 17:28:11 To avoid significant device degradation for commercial temperature OMAP3530/OMAP3525 devices (0°C Aug 30 17:28:13 ≤ Tj ≤ 90°C), the device power-on hours (POH) must be limited to one of the following: Aug 30 17:28:14 • 100K total POH when operating across all OPPs and keeping the time spent at OPP5-OPP6 to less Aug 30 17:28:16 than 23K POH. Aug 30 17:28:17 • 50K total POH when operating at OPP5 - OPP6. Aug 30 17:28:19 • 44K total POH with no restrictions to the proportion of these POH at operating points OPP1 - OPP6. Aug 30 17:28:38 ahhh, uhm, if i get my custom voltages... does that mean i manually give the cpu that much juice or does that mean i give it a certain range of power it can dynamically choose from if it needs? Aug 30 17:28:46 we're OMAP3430 though Aug 30 17:29:27 Stskeeps: sure? Aug 30 17:29:50 yes, quite Aug 30 17:29:55 Stskeeps, woops! Aug 30 17:31:06 DocScrutinizer: that means the cpu can be on for 44k hours in usual usage? (sorry, somehow not my best day) Aug 30 17:35:06 Stskeeps: well, whatever. The 34 and 35 seem to be the same breed, just differently selected Aug 30 17:35:38 meeeeh, damn internet -.- Aug 30 17:36:23 jpinx-eeepc: i remapped... about half of my keys Aug 30 17:36:33 (del is shift+backspace from the beginning though) Aug 30 17:36:55 i added []<>{}|&%$~ pgup pgdwn home end tab and esc Aug 30 17:38:19 mikki-kun: yes, basically Aug 30 17:39:13 was that the answer for my 44k hour question or regarding the voltage-question? Aug 30 17:39:24 yes Aug 30 17:42:45 mikki-kun: voltage is what you select for the regulators in GAIA aka twl5030 to deliver to CPU/SoC, depending on clockfreq etc. However inside SoC there are further additional regulation circuits to finetune the voltage/current a particular function block or even pair of transistors is actually supplied with. That's a part of what TI calls SmartReflex Aug 30 17:48:00 so if i understood correctly i give the cpu a bunch of numbers but it itself determines then which one it takes of them? Aug 30 17:49:06 yes, that's part of the freq governour aiui, and TI has some code for that, which gone to kernel as sw part of smartreflex. Aug 30 17:50:24 so it didn't kinda make sense me trying to find out my lowest settings for my cpu? Aug 30 17:50:30 also aiui smartreflex is disabled due to Nokia spoiled something with the regulators in twl5030 feed to SoC, so probably it doesn't regulate fast enough and this causes instability Aug 30 17:51:39 where smartreflex here is most likely just the regulator thing which is disabled. Obviously you can not disable some parts of SmartReflex inside SoC :-) Aug 30 17:52:21 so that can cause at times my n900 to randomly reboot? Aug 30 17:52:31 yep, of course Aug 30 17:53:26 btw, facebook killed my device 3 times in a row while i was browsing it (was looking for some facts for a promotion which starts today... 70% off if certain stuff from acer) Aug 30 17:56:05 was cool seeing and feeling how it doesn't like Aug 30 17:57:34 ~seen jebba Aug 30 17:57:40 jebba <~jebba@8.20.201.9> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 49d 16h 32m 48s ago, saying: 'Well, you better wear a helmet around here....'. Aug 30 18:05:55 slonopotamus: (with 1.1ghz, calculate using that formula) in my book that's CPU burnout after ~1.3h @ 1.1GHz, using the formula I suggested Aug 30 18:07:23 soon i will overclock my n900 cpu to over 9000 ghz Aug 30 18:07:33 for 1 sec? Xd Aug 30 18:07:39 haha xD Aug 30 18:07:48 technomike_phone: make a vid of the cpu exploding! Aug 30 18:08:30 hahaha :P Aug 30 18:08:55 meh, keep it at near-absolute-zero Aug 30 18:08:58 and you'll be fine Aug 30 18:09:07 I will. I will show the N900 having a nuclear melting Aug 30 18:09:11 *meltdown Aug 30 18:09:30 maybe it runs with liquid nitrogen @ 9001 mhz:SD Aug 30 18:09:49 hahaha imagine it :o Aug 30 18:11:03 only from the netherlands :) one Tweaker prolly will execute it btw;p Aug 30 18:11:55 haha Aug 30 18:11:59 xD Aug 30 18:13:47 these guys did a good job with lebowski haloween costumes: http://www.nateblack.com/halloween.htm Aug 30 18:21:13 how can I setup my N900 to show GMT+2 instead of UTC when connected as USB mass storage device? e.g. a file was written 16:00 GMT+2, but I see it as 14:00 via USB and my system interprets that as GMT+2 Aug 30 18:21:32 your system sucks then :< Aug 30 18:22:13 how should my local system know which timezone those dates are? Aug 30 18:22:24 *you* tell him Aug 30 18:25:12 I can tell my system which time it has itself, but not which time my remote system offered Aug 30 18:26:07 Anyone noticed any alarmd issues with PR1.2? Aug 30 18:26:21 which issues? Aug 30 18:27:08 alarmed seems to work as expected (except some unrelated refusal to delete events) Aug 30 18:27:29 and alarmed using alarmd Aug 30 18:29:04 (delete) or was it templates, or scripts? Aug 30 18:29:57 Jaffa: ?? Aug 30 18:39:25 http://geekymojo.com/as-promised-nokia-n900-review-still-impressive/ Aug 30 18:39:44 lol some late blewers are never too late with reviews;d Aug 30 18:41:15 DocScrutinizer: Things like FeedingIt, osso-rss-reader and gPodder aren't updating automatically (gPodder and FeedingIt don't even have anything in /var/cache/alarmd/*, AFAICT); whereas Modest is working fine Aug 30 18:42:05 hmmm Aug 30 18:42:25 strace? Aug 30 18:42:45 err gdb Aug 30 18:43:18 or ltrace Aug 30 18:44:42 Jaffa: might they be linked agains old alarmd abi? Aug 30 18:46:17 DocScrutinizer: Don't think so, as thp says gPodder's working for him. Aug 30 18:46:35 hmm Aug 30 18:46:46 DocScrutinizer: Didn't it used to be an XML file, rather than /var/cache/alarmd/alarm_queue.ini? Aug 30 18:47:02 no clue Aug 30 18:47:12 never looked into that Aug 30 18:48:47 what is up with libsdl-mixer these days? I'm seeing new packages again, and the old ones have disappeared. Aug 30 18:48:58 Hi Aug 30 18:49:15 that lidsdl is pain in my ass Aug 30 18:49:46 MEH Aug 30 18:49:56 skyhost segfaults under qemu Aug 30 18:49:59 EHM Aug 30 18:50:20 fsck skyhost! Aug 30 18:50:26 or at least qemu-user… Aug 30 18:50:44 not sure I have time to try to make it work in qemu-system-arm with native telepathy Aug 30 18:50:54 are you a lebowski achieveR? http://mckiernanmadness.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/timemag.jpg Aug 30 18:51:38 how'd you go to make that shit work? isn't it cloded&crypted&crippled&completely-fsckdup? Aug 30 18:51:45 /actually/… does Maemo 5 have a qemu-based SDK? Aug 30 18:51:58 DocScrutinizer:? Aug 30 18:52:13 skyhost == skype, no? Aug 30 18:53:45 and skype was that BS that uses even crypted and gdb-'blocked' executables, no? Aug 30 18:54:19 tbh I'm not surprised it doesn't work under qemu Aug 30 18:57:37 what surprises me though is luke-jr dealing with that stuff Aug 30 18:58:14 ? Aug 30 18:58:26 hey guys Aug 30 18:58:29 I'm wrong? Aug 30 19:03:22 what's up in Maemo land? Aug 30 19:04:31 * rtyler passes Venemo a beer Aug 30 19:05:49 DocScrutinizer: strictly independent of my free software naziism, I assure you Aug 30 19:06:00 that's what is needed tonight Aug 30 19:06:39 DocScrutinizer: some things come before free software Aug 30 19:07:22 like the ability for my children to communicate face-to-face with their mother Aug 30 19:07:31 which is apparently impossible with N900 Aug 30 19:07:48 well, use of any phone excludes face to face Aug 30 19:07:59 jacekowski: N900 isn't a phone Aug 30 19:12:28 Hi Aug 30 19:12:46 Can someone look over this post and tell me if the alarms that I posted are safe to delete? Aug 30 19:12:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61412 Aug 30 19:13:04 so far I'm really enjoying my n900 with maemo 5 (being a former supporter of the openmoko project) Aug 30 19:13:30 I'm wondering what apps you guys find invaluable for integrating the phone with your linux desktops ;) Aug 30 19:13:43 * rtyler found GPE Calendar but it integrates poorly with maemo Aug 30 19:14:00 The alarm_appid is qttest-asj and that isn't an app that I'm familar with Aug 30 19:18:19 integrate? ssh x11 forwarding nothing more:D Aug 30 19:19:04 moin Aug 30 19:22:19 nox-, nox? Hmpf. I was going to name my game nox. Aug 30 19:23:00 :P Aug 30 19:42:16 hi! I have tested encryption on the n900 and so far aes-cbc-plain:rmd128 with hw acceleration seems to be stable, but i have not tested every hash... Aug 30 19:42:37 what should I do with it? maemo.org talk is not really an option since it's only supported from hw rev 2101 and you need to update nolo! Aug 30 19:43:11 Anybody got an idea why I can't find NITDroid-Installer in App manager? Aug 30 19:43:37 tobis87: what nolo would i need and where do i find it? Aug 30 19:43:42 marcus_, perhaps you have already installed it Aug 30 19:43:50 or you dont have the repository listed Aug 30 19:44:10 I've got extras-devel for sure, hmm. Do you have it? Aug 30 19:44:17 * lcuk wilts after going for a 1 hour walk Aug 30 19:44:27 frals: the maintainer from the new hw driver send it to me, it is the same version with aes accel. activated in the m-shield Aug 30 19:44:30 marcus_, not sure, i am principly concerned with maemo Aug 30 19:44:45 marcus_: ftr I didn't have it either Aug 30 19:44:50 marcus_: I installed through apt-get Aug 30 19:44:53 * mortini waters lcuk. Aug 30 19:45:11 :D thanks mortini Aug 30 19:45:20 Corsac: When doing so, it says I need to install bzip2, but apt-get can't find that either. Aug 30 19:45:27 * lcuk is really knocked sideways by infection Aug 30 19:46:18 facepalm Aug 30 19:46:26 i just thought n900 was locked up Aug 30 19:46:35 but it was photoviewer showing a black photo Aug 30 19:46:45 * lcuk hides Aug 30 19:46:58 Prepare for the punishment of Zurg. Aug 30 19:46:58 tobis87: whats the version number and who is this myserious maintainer then? ;) Aug 30 19:47:06 i have compiled as module: dm-mod, dm-crypt, omap-aes, omap-sha1-md5, rmd128, rmd256 (RIPEMD), sha1_generic, sha256_generic (SHA-1 and SHA-2), wp512 (Whirlpool)... you still need cryptsetup from extra-devel and the nolo update Aug 30 19:47:22 yaay Aug 30 19:48:14 marcus_: bzip2 | 1:1.0.5-3+0m5 | https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Packages Aug 30 19:48:46 Corsac: Huh? Aug 30 19:48:58 Corsac: I think it's an error I get, hold on. Aug 30 19:49:11 frals: RAM:40208052                 LDR     R0, =aNoloXLoaderV1_ ; "NOLO X-Loader (v1.4.14, Aug 18 2010)\n" and the maintainer is Dmitry Kasatkin Aug 30 19:49:44 I really should consider flashing my n900. Haven't done it since I got it. Aug 30 19:50:14 package bzip2 is not availabe, but is referred to by another package Aug 30 19:50:22 E: Package bzip2 has no installaiton candidate Aug 30 19:51:30 Jaffa, your Maemo Weekly News link noticably removes the /#Maemo hash tag and has done since you started prepending Meego to it Aug 30 19:52:05 https://twitter.com/mwkn/status/22550969543 Aug 30 19:52:24 (ie its unclickable) Aug 30 19:53:39 MohammadAG51: i heard you love packagin stuff n shits, package a new ffmpeg with 3gp and amr support pretty please! ;) Aug 30 19:55:05 hello, are there any news on meego and n900? Aug 30 19:56:07 frals, there was someone in playing with building mplayer the other night Aug 30 19:56:19 and a few folks popped out of the woodwork to say they were around similar Aug 30 19:56:49 oh frals before I forget Aug 30 19:57:00 * lcuk swings a rather large hefty trout @ you Aug 30 19:57:04 bah! Aug 30 19:59:40 heh Aug 30 20:00:00 i think my latest fmms version got promoted to extras without actually having the new feature.. Aug 30 20:00:16 could someone please point me towards the SDL_GetMouseState for SDL version 1.3? I'm losing a lot of hair over this.. Aug 30 20:00:28 ermm.. api reference Aug 30 20:01:15 http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDL_GetMouseState Aug 30 20:01:20 mece, thats googles first hit Aug 30 20:01:21 :P Aug 30 20:01:33 lcuk, not 1.3 Aug 30 20:01:48 even tho last edited2008? Aug 30 20:01:50 hmm Aug 30 20:01:58 well.. Aug 30 20:02:24 whats wrong ? Aug 30 20:03:29 well in 1.2 it takes *int, *int and in 1.3 it takes int, *int, *int. It would be nice to know what the last int is. Aug 30 20:04:28 mece: number of times to trout lcuk Aug 30 20:05:00 api was updated to (int index, int *x, int *y) Aug 30 20:05:18 but I agree mece Aug 30 20:05:23 changing api like that is bad form Aug 30 20:05:30 especially the left hand side ops Aug 30 20:07:18 frals, check your replies on twitter Aug 30 20:07:30 yes there are NO documentation for that!. soo... I'll just put 0 there in the first one. Aug 30 20:07:50 lcuk: \o/ Aug 30 20:08:26 i wonder if i shipped the 2 latest "versions" of fmms without updating the source code.. Aug 30 20:08:30 i dont dare to look lol Aug 30 20:09:55 haha Aug 30 20:12:59 lcuk, well it compiles with 0 there... Aug 30 20:13:04 let's see how it pans out. Aug 30 20:13:14 * lcuk taught jake about snapdragons today Aug 30 20:13:28 mece, thats bad form on their part Aug 30 20:14:00 lcuk, yep. Especially since it's undocumented, at least publicly. Aug 30 20:14:02 at least it wont compile Aug 30 20:14:13 its documented in the headers at least Aug 30 20:14:35 (or should be, else you wouldnt have noticed a problem whilst building Aug 30 20:14:39 nice, 1.2.2, 1.2.3 and 1.2.4 has all had the same code in my packages Aug 30 20:14:40 :ops: Aug 30 20:14:51 you said you were not going to look Aug 30 20:15:00 i had to :( Aug 30 20:15:12 now you have to do a noobmonk3y and release 4 new versions in a night Aug 30 20:15:14 LOOL Aug 30 20:17:34 After I've just flashed my n900, is it "safe" to use the backup from before? I mean, are there apps included and such? Is it all files from ~/? Aug 30 20:18:00 marcus_, the backup stored a list of apps and repositories Aug 30 20:18:05 when you do a full restore Aug 30 20:18:10 it opens HAM with that list of ap Aug 30 20:18:22 and you can actually tick/untick any you dont want to redo Aug 30 20:18:39 Hmm, HAM is what? Aug 30 20:19:02 hildon application manager Aug 30 20:19:11 Aha. Aug 30 20:19:18 Nice nice. Aug 30 20:25:23 #troutfail Aug 30 20:25:34 Anybody remember which folder the PC Suite saves backups in by default? Aug 30 20:26:13 /home/user/MyDocs/somewhere Aug 30 20:26:31 does anyone know what the physical and logical sector size of the emmc is? Aug 30 20:26:32 did you just flash the main image, or the emmc too? Aug 30 20:26:45 lcuk: Both I believe. Aug 30 20:27:29 tobis87: 130K or so, and 512 bytes Aug 30 20:29:03 SpeedEvil: are you familar much with maemo's alarm system? Aug 30 20:29:16 In a very lomited sense. Aug 30 20:29:26 That being limited to it wakes me up most mornings. Aug 30 20:30:02 is the filesystem already optimized for the alignment, or does the driver for the emmc do this? i ask this, because if i would use dm-crypt, it would bypass the filesystem Aug 30 20:30:05 Haha I'm trying to figure out if I need these 2-3 alarm entries I think they are changing my ringing profile http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61412 Aug 30 20:30:19 It says the alarm_appid is qttest-asj Aug 30 20:30:29 Though I'm not sure what qttest-asj would be Aug 30 20:30:46 yet another hotel-death Aug 30 20:30:51 *bored* Aug 30 20:30:57 pyther, that does indeed sound like a test of some sort Aug 30 20:31:20 tobis87: no. Aug 30 20:31:20 lcuk: so it should be safe to delete? Aug 30 20:31:30 Hmm, I wonder why I can't put in a password in my wpa protected wifi Aug 30 20:31:30 pyther, i never said that Aug 30 20:31:33 tobis87: The emmc pretends to be a 512 byte block device. Aug 30 20:31:45 It wants me to use pin method or "click" method Aug 30 20:31:45 tobis87: You can never get any deeper than this. Aug 30 20:31:47 lcuk: thus I'm asking Aug 30 20:32:00 something seems to be changing my ringing profile Aug 30 20:32:01 crap... oh well. going back to sdl1.2 1.3 is not working for this. Aug 30 20:32:04 pyther, where is the settings file, lemme have a squint Aug 30 20:32:30 lcuk: well I found the enteries in here: /var/cache/alarmd/alarm_queue.ini Aug 30 20:33:27 action0.dbus_path: /com/nokia/profiled Aug 30 20:33:28 action0.dbus_name: set_profile Aug 30 20:33:28 action0.dbus_args: sgeneral\\; Aug 30 20:33:40 woops sorry didn't mean to post with the newlines :-/ Aug 30 20:33:46 SpeedEvil: yes, i know this. however tune2fs says ext3 has a block size of 4096, so it should write in 4k chunks, correct? Aug 30 20:33:59 I would assume those commands change the ringing profile Aug 30 20:34:35 tobis87: yes. Aug 30 20:35:20 hmm.. what does autobuilder do when there are no build-depends set? Aug 30 20:35:49 Explode with the force of a thousand suns? Aug 30 20:36:05 SpeedEvil, no, I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Aug 30 20:36:21 well, now we have ruled that one out Aug 30 20:36:26 lcuk: what would be the worse that happens I would have to reflash my phone? Aug 30 20:36:48 SpeedEvil: mmh, 4096 chunk -> devided into 128bit or 256bit encrypted blocks -> collected until 512bit has been collected -> and 130k is written... this doesn't look nice Aug 30 20:36:50 if that were the case, we should really put a clear warning about that in the wiki. Aug 30 20:36:52 yes but why don't you do what the system appears to do - is there a .bak file already there Aug 30 20:37:16 mece, in bold - with tags around it Aug 30 20:37:27 we can't have it exploding with a force of 1000 suns every few hours Aug 30 20:37:27 tobis87: It's much more complex than that Aug 30 20:37:55 lcuk, yeah, no that would be bad. Aug 30 20:38:13 lcuk: I'm not sure what you mean I do have .bak file in that directory Aug 30 20:39:22 pyther, does the .bak file contain anomalous entries? Aug 30 20:39:34 lcuk: yes Aug 30 20:39:42 SpeedEvil: it is not directly writen to the flash, instead it will be hold for 5 sec in memory, as for ext3 at least. Aug 30 20:40:17 lcuk: though I suppose I can take alarm_queue.ini, back it up and then restore it if all hell breaks loose Aug 30 20:40:34 i doubt it will, but to comfort you hold on Aug 30 20:40:45 ssh root@10.0.0. Aug 30 20:40:52 nice, wrong window and everything Aug 30 20:40:59 haha :D Aug 30 20:41:04 tobis87: you really want a log structured FS. Aug 30 20:41:27 Despite the lack of actual reasons for it, "ssh root@" makes me cringe. Aug 30 20:41:47 meh Aug 30 20:42:06 it has a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong password Aug 30 20:42:16 that I have to manually count the repeated letters in everytime Aug 30 20:42:35 yeah, and as mentioned, not that it really matters that much (with most actively used ssh accounts having sudo powers anyway) Aug 30 20:42:47 yip Aug 30 20:43:00 * lcuk even ssh root@localhost normally rather than normal rootsh entry Aug 30 20:43:11 Uh... why? :P Aug 30 20:43:21 cos i installed openssh and forgot the other Aug 30 20:43:28 now uparrow on console finds it quicker Aug 30 20:43:34 I see :P Aug 30 20:44:22 Well I am going to delete the 3 entries, hopefully I don't regret my choice :P Aug 30 20:44:38 pyther, i just deleted the file and rebooted and got a regenerated one Aug 30 20:44:45 :) so it wont do anything :P Aug 30 20:44:50 ahh ok cool :D Aug 30 20:45:07 but it wont help Aug 30 20:45:17 because you need to find where the alarmd actual settings are i tihnk Aug 30 20:45:17 lcuk: can you post the regenerated file? Aug 30 20:45:34 no Aug 30 20:45:37 lcuk: Ta. Twitter's shit. Aug 30 20:45:38 it contains my private stuff Aug 30 20:46:20 lcuk: I believe alarmed writes it's settings in alarm_queue.ini Aug 30 20:47:09 pyther, well its magic Aug 30 20:47:18 and managed to regenerate them after i nuked from orbit Aug 30 20:47:42 Haha I deleted the three entries so I'll see if my profile automatically change when they aren't suppose to Aug 30 20:47:47 so options: it rewrites on closing the alarmd, or the settings for each producer restocks it on bootup Aug 30 20:47:51 the alarm file looks ok right now Aug 30 20:48:03 SpeedEvil: is not only the internel NAND a ubifs partition? and for the swap, is there already something done in the kernel for alignment? as for the chunk size of one swap write? Aug 30 20:48:41 lcuk: thanks for the help Aug 30 20:49:11 what help :P i just convinced you deleting it does nothing :P Aug 30 20:49:13 lcuk: I think it copies alarm_queue.ini to alarm_queue.ini.bak and then saves the new changes Aug 30 20:49:19 lcuk: hehe :D Aug 30 20:49:58 Are there any planned updates for the email client in Maemo. It's dog slow. Aug 30 20:50:18 blizzow3, its open source Aug 30 20:50:25 touche Aug 30 20:50:25 repository has been updated recently Aug 30 20:50:34 with lots of fixes Aug 30 20:50:39 for changes Aug 30 20:50:45 but i dont know if one is "dog slow" Aug 30 20:51:03 blizzow3, it seems to depend also on usage Aug 30 20:51:09 some peoples inboxes flow smoothly Aug 30 20:51:17 other people can have sluggishness Aug 30 20:51:25 sames as any mail client in that regard Aug 30 20:51:42 lcuk, have you ever tried the blackberry email client. Aug 30 20:51:50 There is no sluggishness in that thing. Aug 30 20:51:53 none Aug 30 20:51:57 can't say I have Aug 30 20:52:20 but with my email volume I rarely try many clients once I find something that works Aug 30 20:52:36 * lcuk dislikes hours of importing gb's of stuff Aug 30 20:52:58 I love the rest of Maemo and have hopes for Meego, but a blackberry has nailed the email experience. Aug 30 20:53:13 only one? Aug 30 20:53:29 mortini, only one what? Aug 30 20:53:43 i dunno, i like how my n900 tells me i have 'new mail' that arrived 3 days ago. it's helpful. Aug 30 20:53:50 lcuk: bad joke based on 'a blackberry' Aug 30 20:53:58 tobis87: so that the swap usage will at least not be worse than without encryption, because of an additional alignment issue. except of encryption overhead... Aug 30 20:56:18 tobis87: you can't do swap block writes of 130K, it doesn't work Aug 30 20:56:28 tobis87: you need something much more annoying. Aug 30 20:56:54 Something like a log filesystem, or a circular buffer with garbage collection Aug 30 20:57:26 Can anybody explain me which one is 2g of: Dual, GSM & 3G (duh) Aug 30 20:57:36 GSM Aug 30 20:58:03 Aha, okay. Thanks! Aug 30 20:58:08 SpeedEvil: http://pastebin.com/7uMMcEdF , what is all this page remapping about? Aug 30 20:58:29 Seems like I don't get any signals what so ever with either one Aug 30 20:59:08 Got it now. Aug 30 21:01:14 11 more maemo-coders Aug 30 21:01:21 tobis87: dunno Aug 30 21:01:48 next week 15 more Aug 30 21:02:25 resistance is futile Aug 30 21:02:55 SpeedEvil: I wouldn't know how to use or program a buffer with garbage collection... All I ask about is, is there already something done, which could break, if I put an encryption layer between swap use and the disk access. Aug 30 21:03:17 or fs and disk Aug 30 21:03:42 No, it will just work. Aug 30 21:03:52 It may not be fast, but meh. Aug 30 21:04:05 ok, i'm just scared about all this aligment stuff Aug 30 21:04:35 I'm slowly assimilating Finnish mobile-development companies Aug 30 21:04:51 since i first read about the new harddrives and now the same stuff in real. Aug 30 21:18:10 ok I think I got it working now. Aug 30 21:18:45 blizzow3: (no sluggishness in BB mail) haha, it cheats. It downloads and presents first mail, and then in background downloads the rest (at least that's what I've heard, never even touched such critter). So yeah, it *looks* fast, but don't think about switching immediately to msg #2 :-P Aug 30 21:25:53 yay fheroes2 0.5.1916-maemo-3 Build succeeded 2010-08-30 21:22 Aug 30 21:30:45 DocScrutinizer: at least on my bb, it doesn't do that, i just use the imap push junk. it does, however, just download part of the message Aug 30 21:32:27 lcuk: (alarm_queue.ini) it's probably written by alarmd on quit. caller-ui does exactly that, that's the reason you need to kill -9 it in *#-ena, as otherwise the edits in the config file are overwritten and lost Aug 30 21:34:47 seems a lot of programs work that way. xchat the same, obviously Aug 30 21:36:43 it's actually a very bad practice, as all 'edits' the process does 'locally' during runtime are lost if process terminates ungracefully Aug 30 21:37:37 probably a side effect of OO coding :-S Save in object destructor Aug 30 21:51:53 DocScrutinizer, it depends on the app makeup yeah Aug 30 21:52:16 sometimes configuration propertybags are held until the end, othertimes they are pushed as modified Aug 30 21:53:28 read-modify-write on every change would be much saner Aug 30 21:54:44 *especially* on a mobile device Aug 30 21:55:30 * DocScrutinizer should post some best practice recommendation regarding that Aug 30 21:56:59 hell, how often I've lost all the xchat configs done with much effort, just because I forgot to restart(sic!) xchat after editing, and eventually xchat got killed on system shutdown Aug 30 21:57:39 :-(( Aug 30 22:03:45 DocScrutinizer, thats an organisational issue too Aug 30 22:04:02 because active external monitoring of config changes alters the app flow Aug 30 22:04:19 that's why irssi have /save Aug 30 22:08:11 lcuk: err, active external monitoring? please elaborate. I suggested a simple read-modify-write inside the procedure/method actually changing a setting, rather than read-on-constructor change-locally write-in-destructor Aug 30 22:08:41 jacekowski: a /save is sane, if app *only* saves on /save Aug 30 22:09:11 well, thing is that saving everything everytime you modify something is just a waste Aug 30 22:09:33 if, however, app saves on quit _sometimes_, depending on lateral conditions of particular quit, that's bad Aug 30 22:09:48 no matter if there's also a /save or not Aug 30 22:09:56 PEBKAC :P Aug 30 22:10:32 you know it happens, so shutdown xchat when you are messing Aug 30 22:11:02 BS! I don't want to shutdown xchat to save changes :-S Aug 30 22:11:44 I even received spanking on IRC because of doing that, in an extended way Aug 30 22:12:19 well, irssi is asking on quite if you want to save or not Aug 30 22:12:25 if there were any changes Aug 30 22:12:52 irssi ftw Aug 30 22:13:01 jacekowski: what help is this, when device shuts down hard due to bat low or whatever Aug 30 22:13:23 nite all, sweet dreams Aug 30 22:14:38 as a general rule, on a mobile device you SHALL keep everything as persistent as possible, and flush early and often, as you MUST NOT expect a sane clean system shutdown Aug 30 22:14:40 ~2119 Aug 30 22:14:41 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Aug 30 22:17:29 nice one Aug 30 22:18:15 I'd replace everything by non-temporary data, but I agree :) Aug 30 22:18:34 jacekowski: (waste) how much waste can this be, reading a <5k config file, and writing it back - every once in a few hours? Aug 30 22:18:52 ugh Aug 30 22:18:59 how do I get networking inside qemu-maemo? Aug 30 22:19:00 imagine 100s of programs doing that Aug 30 22:19:02 uhm, I guess it uses atime Aug 30 22:19:08 what exactly are you wasting doing that? Aug 30 22:19:33 atime/stat is cheap Aug 30 22:19:45 jacekowski: ther's no config changes in 100s of programs concurrently Aug 30 22:19:50 lol Aug 30 22:19:57 I would hope N900 doesn't support atime Aug 30 22:20:26 sure it supports atime. Just drives a monted noatime Aug 30 22:20:41 … Aug 30 22:20:45 that's obviously what I mean Aug 30 22:20:47 anyhow Aug 30 22:20:50 networking on qemu maemo Aug 30 22:20:54 howto Aug 30 22:21:00 is there a way for games to install themselves to the eMMC? I'm out of memory on my rootfs Aug 30 22:21:02 -nic something Aug 30 22:21:11 like in normal qemu i would expect Aug 30 22:21:12 loufoque: oO Aug 30 22:21:13 -net nic Aug 30 22:21:13 jacekowski: Maemo doesn't support NICs does it? Aug 30 22:21:22 loufoque: do you have PR1.2? Aug 30 22:21:25 yes Aug 30 22:21:26 and maybe -net user for the other end Aug 30 22:21:33 luke-jr: it should Aug 30 22:21:37 hrm Aug 30 22:21:40 do I need to load some module? Aug 30 22:21:46 loufoque: yes, it's called optification Aug 30 22:21:47 with bit of trickery and modules Aug 30 22:21:59 DocScrutinizer: it should be done with unionfs Aug 30 22:22:01 /opt isn't on the eMMC as far as I can see Aug 30 22:22:07 that's my opinion Aug 30 22:22:13 loufoque: it should be Aug 30 22:22:19 loufoque: it is Aug 30 22:23:05 oh right, /home/opt on /opt Aug 30 22:23:08 ~optification Aug 30 22:23:12 optification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Aug 30 22:24:16 but I've got much more space on /home/user/MyDocs Aug 30 22:24:22 why can't I just use that space Aug 30 22:24:35 because it's vfat Aug 30 22:24:38 not compatible Aug 30 22:26:11 loufoque: please read the page infobot posted URL above. It's all in there Aug 30 22:27:32 couldn't I just format it to ext3 Aug 30 22:27:39 and put everything on one big partition Aug 30 22:27:46 nope, as that will break things Aug 30 22:28:38 there are a few things in maemo that expect to see a vfat there Aug 30 22:29:29 hmm, but he could resize it Aug 30 22:30:51 Nokia could have sanitized the whole optification madness with PR1.2, but they were so happy with their inventive duct tape botch so they will most likely keep it forever now, maybe even migrate the concept to meego as it panned out so incredibly great Aug 30 22:31:22 unionfs Aug 30 22:31:40 and they could use some sort of vfat emulation Aug 30 22:31:43 so does anybody know why facebrick says unauthorized source ip address? Aug 30 22:32:12 bah! have a decent classical, nah orthodox partitioning and earn Aug 30 22:32:50 http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?s=42c7408224991c6635bb9a8306f5afcd&t=49216&page=61 Aug 30 22:34:10 why the hell must things get symlinks from usr/ to opt/ while usr/ still on NAND?? there's absolutely NO sane reason why usr/ can't get an own drive. That's been the rationale usr/ was introduced Aug 30 22:34:43 back in the 1960s Aug 30 22:37:10 Unix System Resources: all the executables and other system resources not needed for core boot to single user mode. Kept un usr/ to allow a separate drive that may even fail and system still can boot to service mode Aug 30 22:39:39 now if you create a distry and have nfc about such things, and dare to rely on usr/ in your init scripts, then umm what should unix gurus call you? Aug 30 22:42:43 then if you go on and instead of fixing the root cause, throw out everything needed for boot from usr/ and keep it in bin/ and sbin/ etc instead, where it belongs according to FHS, and rather invent a thing called 'optification'... :-x Aug 30 22:46:00 thing is Aug 30 22:46:18 that people like to touch things they know fuck all about Aug 30 22:46:24 and make it overcomplicated Aug 30 22:48:30 yeah, instead of moving 10 files from /usr/bin to /bin, we now have 942++ symlinks from /usr/bin to /opt/usr/bin and only 10 real files in /usr/bin. *GREAT* Aug 30 22:54:07 942++ = 943 Aug 30 22:54:49 nope, I've overloaded ++ :-P Aug 30 22:55:07 haha Aug 30 22:57:07 942++ is 942 Aug 30 22:57:31 doesn't really make sense actually, ++ only works on lvalues Aug 30 22:57:57 and - btw - those mentioned 10 files are the exact 10 files that don't belong there. But who cares, as /usr also doesn't belong where it actually is :-P Aug 30 22:58:36 hmm Aug 30 22:58:54 wget, zip, and unrar don't seem to be optified Aug 30 22:59:35 probably messybox needs them to start init :-P Aug 30 22:59:36 Can someone explain what the correct answer to this fiasco (pun intended. sue me) of an FS is? Aug 30 23:00:02 evening guys..im kinda worried..i started logging my crahses/reboots when using emulators and got card I/O errors: http://pastebin.ca/1929149 Aug 30 23:00:31 it only happens when using emultaors..does that mean my internal memory is screwed? Aug 30 23:00:34 DocScrutinizer, lol they're not on the stock firmware :p Aug 30 23:01:07 MNZ: please rephrase Aug 30 23:01:54 The whole symlink hell and optification that nokia invented, what was the simpler answer to the problem they solved? Actually, scratch that, someone remind me what the problem is/was again. Aug 30 23:02:58 the problem is [2010-08-31 00:18:46] is there a way for games to install themselves to the eMMC? I'm out of memory on my rootfs Aug 30 23:03:39 no no I mean the *problem* that nokia faced which they solved with the whole optification thing. Aug 30 23:03:57 256MB rootfs Aug 30 23:04:13 fillup of 235MB NAND rootfs, due to /usr living on NAND Aug 30 23:04:25 and /usr cannot live on eMMC? Aug 30 23:04:39 sure it can, and it SHALL Aug 30 23:04:40 it _can_, but the eMMC is slower Aug 30 23:04:55 i don't mind shoving maemo 5 on the emmc Aug 30 23:05:05 DocScrutinizer, did you see egoshin's eMMC scripts? Aug 30 23:05:17 MohammadAG51: uhuh, so when calling it opt and symlinking it, it gets considerably faster, no? Aug 30 23:05:19 MohammadAG51, so the solution for a slow /usr is to use /opt (on eMMC!) and symlink stuff :/ ? Aug 30 23:05:32 ugh Aug 30 23:05:43 trying to find the latest nitdroid rootfs Aug 30 23:05:52 hey, i didn't invent scotch tape Aug 30 23:06:24 just so we are clear, that last thing I said *is* actually what happened?!? I was sorta joking... Aug 30 23:06:44 yes, exactly that was happening Aug 30 23:07:20 hmm Aug 30 23:07:28 how does maemo 5 handle mmc crap? Aug 30 23:07:41 on ubuntu, mmcblk0 is the microSD Aug 30 23:07:50 same with nitdroid fedora etc.. Aug 30 23:07:57 but on maemo 5 it's mmcblk1 Aug 30 23:08:15 it's renamed sometime during boot iirc Aug 30 23:08:26 IMHO if there's going to be a PR1.3 it shouldn't be out without a sane answer to the limited nand space Aug 30 23:08:41 so, assuming maemo 5 is moved to the eMMC, or the microSD, would it rename them? Aug 30 23:08:53 the answer is optification, according to nokia Aug 30 23:09:36 i'm thinking of backing up my shit then moving maemo 5 and adding a bootmenu entry Aug 30 23:09:40 MohammadAG51: you can ask questions :-P Aug 30 23:10:00 problem is Aug 30 23:10:15 the bootmenu is on the rootfs Aug 30 23:10:50 hmm, the OneNAND is fast, can it be used as swap? Aug 30 23:11:01 theoritically Aug 30 23:11:04 yep Aug 30 23:11:21 but it's also very limited space Aug 30 23:11:29 256MBs Aug 30 23:11:37 but it's faster swap Aug 30 23:12:16 * MohammadAG51 installs grub to /dev/mtd0 :P Aug 30 23:12:38 grub works on n900? :) Aug 30 23:12:46 lol doubtful Aug 30 23:12:48 so kinda related to the current discussion the error i get is: mmcblk0: error -84 transferring data, sector 60919576, nr 256, card status 0x900 Aug 30 23:13:01 uuuuuu Aug 30 23:13:02 MohammadAG51, thats why i asked :) Aug 30 23:13:05 i get it loads of times http://pastebin.ca/1929149 Aug 30 23:13:06 hmm, replace it? Aug 30 23:13:07 MNZ: the PITA is: fix this shit on your device, and epically fail on next SSU Aug 30 23:13:13 zeltak: have you overclocked it? Aug 30 23:13:21 jacekowski: nope not at all Aug 30 23:13:33 well, it's broken anyways Aug 30 23:13:38 warranty Aug 30 23:13:39 and i only get reboots during using game emulators Aug 30 23:13:48 ahh shit.... Aug 30 23:14:08 its not my month :( first my laptop now the phone..crap.. Aug 30 23:14:32 so what part is screwed..the internal memory? Aug 30 23:14:40 yep Aug 30 23:14:43 don't you just like it when terminal gets mixed up Aug 30 23:14:44 N⎺┐␋▒-N900:·# Aug 30 23:15:11 reset Aug 30 23:15:17 anyone got any success in mounting an mtd block? Aug 30 23:15:22 yeah jacekowski, i know Aug 30 23:15:23 shit....anyone knows how does one procced in the USA? does nokia have serice points here Aug 30 23:15:28 zeltak: first try a reflash of eMMC Aug 30 23:15:48 backup before trying that Aug 30 23:15:58 eMMC reflash might fail Aug 30 23:16:02 MohammadAG51: mounting? Aug 30 23:16:05 MohammadAG51: just use mount Aug 30 23:16:14 not on the N900 Aug 30 23:16:34 thx DocScrutinizer i will..i actually reflashed a few days ago..wait so the mmcnlk0 i the emmc? Aug 30 23:16:47 yep Aug 30 23:17:18 ahh i see..ok i will flash it again but after that is there a badblocks or any other test to run to check the memory? Aug 30 23:17:18 m*ulti-m*edia-c*ard-0 Aug 30 23:17:40 gotcha Aug 30 23:18:18 detecting bad blocks on a mmc isn't exactly simple Aug 30 23:18:32 i see so how does one know if the emmc is defective? Aug 30 23:18:39 hmm, but nand controller should pick it up Aug 30 23:18:46 reflash would fail Aug 30 23:18:54 as there's not supposed to be any exposed to 'outside world - mmc controller should handle that internally Aug 30 23:19:22 DocScrutinizer, because you shouldn't fix it on *your* device. This needs a good answer and a fix through an SSU.... of course this is a huge amount of work, deoptification(I love new words) of all the packages, and succesfully "fixing" everyone's devices in an automated way.... is all this even plausible? Aug 30 23:19:52 MohammadAG51: was you referring to my case when you said reflash will fail? Aug 30 23:19:59 yes Aug 30 23:20:05 s/will/might Aug 30 23:20:07 MNZ: plausible yes, as in mythbusters :-P Aug 30 23:20:30 so....im confused...should i not try to reflash emmc? Aug 30 23:20:48 backup what you have left, reflash, if it fails take it back Aug 30 23:21:04 you should, and you'll lose your data anyway during the process, so backup Aug 30 23:21:06 When's the next planned SSU? Aug 30 23:21:22 20xx afaik Aug 30 23:21:26 ok thx MohammadAG51 and DocScrutinizer Aug 30 23:21:33 MNZ: nobody knows if and when Aug 30 23:21:44 if, yes Aug 30 23:21:47 when, idk Aug 30 23:21:47 but i'm surprised that controller doesn't fix the problem Aug 30 23:21:52 oh, no plans. goody. Aug 30 23:21:52 so if i do reflash succesfully does that mean things are good? Aug 30 23:22:04 jacekowski: ack Aug 30 23:22:07 probably Aug 30 23:22:10 is that memory so worn that it's not usable anymore Aug 30 23:22:26 unlikely Aug 30 23:22:32 could be early defect Aug 30 23:22:45 and look at the block numbers Aug 30 23:22:46 and if not anyone had any experience with "taking it back" in the USA? how is that done? Aug 30 23:22:50 it might go kaboom later Aug 30 23:22:50 or siply a nasty corrupted block Aug 30 23:22:51 these are sequential Aug 30 23:22:51 :P Aug 30 23:23:08 looks like there is no wear leveling applied at all Aug 30 23:23:24 zeltak, a bottle of beer, or 10, and a visit to the Nokia store Aug 30 23:23:58 zeltak: first flash VANILLA eMMC Aug 30 23:24:11 DocScrutinizer: will do it in a few minutes Aug 30 23:24:14 zeltak: if that doesn't fix things, we'll deal with RMA Aug 30 23:24:18 and fiasco image Aug 30 23:24:30 hmm, the N95's battery is the same as the N900's Aug 30 23:24:42 ignoring size and capacity differences Aug 30 23:24:46 thx DocScrutinizer ill report in a few minutes..just the emmc not the root right? Aug 30 23:24:53 both Aug 30 23:24:57 zeltak: yes - and COMBINED! Aug 30 23:25:23 and combined? so both the root and the emmc..gothca Aug 30 23:25:34 don't use -R Aug 30 23:25:39 kk thx MohammadAG51 Aug 30 23:25:40 when using flasher-3.5 Aug 30 23:25:43 never flash eMMC without rootfs Aug 30 23:25:53 i see thx for the tips Aug 30 23:26:05 so first root without -R and then the emmc Aug 30 23:26:47 I'd do it other way round, but in the end without -R it doesn't matter Aug 30 23:27:04 just never use -R Aug 30 23:27:30 ok so ill do it your way DocScrutinizer then 1)reflash vanilla to emmc (without -r) and then reflash root and then reboot..correct Aug 30 23:27:43 yep Aug 30 23:27:54 and let it boot Aug 30 23:27:57 don't touch it Aug 30 23:28:05 kk cool..back in a few minutes to reprot :) Aug 30 23:29:12 * DocScrutinizer got the strange feeling like today is his first level helpdesk day Aug 30 23:29:46 sorry about the helpday questions DocScrutinizer :) Aug 30 23:29:46 There's no chance I can get my hands on nokia's pulseaudio modules right? Aug 30 23:29:58 you can Aug 30 23:29:58 afaik nope Aug 30 23:30:02 just not a sources of them Aug 30 23:31:18 hmm Aug 30 23:31:23 what pulseaudio modules Aug 30 23:31:42 pulseaudio-module-nokia-{custom,music,voice} Aug 30 23:32:13 wtf are those for Aug 30 23:32:29 s/custom/common/ Aug 30 23:32:29 MNZ meant: pulseaudio-module-nokia-{common,music,voice} Aug 30 23:32:51 well, one is for common stuff between the mods, the other is for music playback, the third is for voice calls. just guessing Aug 30 23:32:59 meh, no proper description Aug 30 23:33:05 i'm off, night o/ Aug 30 23:33:08 hmm Aug 30 23:33:13 night Aug 30 23:33:18 we should check PA license Aug 30 23:33:28 and double check if it's legal to create closed source PA modules Aug 30 23:33:45 jacekowski, you mean we could force nokia to release sources!? HEEHAW Aug 30 23:34:02 we would have to check license Aug 30 23:34:26 LGPL :( Aug 30 23:35:12 MohammadAG51: night Aug 30 23:35:31 *shakes fist* damn you PA devs, you haven't even got your license right :@ Aug 30 23:36:28 hey mhz Aug 30 23:36:44 you should have some ramen Aug 30 23:37:05 MNZ: you're aware of the 15 pages pdf from that Nokia guy, about maemo audio (mainly PA)? Aug 30 23:37:26 DocScrutinizer, as usual, no. Aug 30 23:37:32 mompl Aug 30 23:37:47 and i wasted another weekend Aug 30 23:37:52 time to sleep Aug 30 23:38:00 i have to go to work today Aug 30 23:38:11 http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf Aug 30 23:39:08 Jyri Sarha, I have seen this name in a whole bunch of places now. Aug 30 23:39:16 MNZ: this should give you an idea about what's in those modules, I guess Aug 30 23:39:25 night jacekowski Aug 30 23:39:37 DocScrutinizer, thanks a lot! Aug 30 23:41:32 DocScrutinizer: emmc flash went well but getting an error on root flash: Aug 30 23:41:34 USB device found found at bus 001, device address 017. Aug 30 23:41:36 Raw data transfer EP found at EP2. Aug 30 23:41:38 Using flashing protocol Mk II. Aug 30 23:42:33 hmm, that's not exactly an error yet, I think Aug 30 23:44:00 ok...so how do i proceed..only the emmc was flashed so far Aug 30 23:44:35 zeltak: maybe it'd help to switch off the device after first flash, and restart with flashing rootfs as usual Aug 30 23:45:41 sorry i dont follow (its been a long day at work... :))..the device is switched off currently after emmc flash Aug 30 23:46:05 so now i should boot it ? Aug 30 23:46:06 ok, so proceed with flashing rootfs Aug 30 23:46:19 nope, don't 'boot' Aug 30 23:46:20 so thats what i did but get the above error Aug 30 23:46:47 device is powered off and i issued: flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f Aug 30 23:47:20 you shall keep it from booting into system, by a) holding 'u', b) prestarting flasher command and 'switch on' N900 via simply plugging in USB cable to it Aug 30 23:47:57 :nod: Aug 30 23:48:18 ahh ok so press power hold down "u" key and start the flasher? Aug 30 23:48:32 no, don't press power key Aug 30 23:48:46 zeltak, hold down 'u' and plug in the usb. don't press power Aug 30 23:48:47 i see just press u and start flasher and then plug in usb..gotcha Aug 30 23:48:53 i see thx Aug 30 23:48:57 just hold the 'u' key, then plug in to USB. it will auto-on Aug 30 23:49:03 * lcuk ponders how to do this as an all in one bundle Aug 30 23:49:27 no, start flasher only after usb is plugged in and phone is actually on Aug 30 23:49:33 zenity is the console shell script UI decision thing isnt it Aug 30 23:49:50 lcuk: like "/me wonders idly if flasher takes multiple img arguments" ? Aug 30 23:49:59 yeah! Aug 30 23:50:16 ahhhh success :) :) Aug 30 23:50:22 exactly the line I was about to type Aug 30 23:50:31 zeltak: :-) Aug 30 23:50:33 :) Aug 30 23:50:37 :) Aug 30 23:50:44 man im sure learning some stuff today....lol.. Aug 30 23:50:45 :) Aug 30 23:50:53 can you tell modest not to do the initial imap connect on startup, it seems to be doing it even automatic e-mail check is off. Aug 30 23:50:55 luke-jr, ta for the O_EXCL doofer by the way, helped a lot with thinking about something Aug 30 23:51:48 ok flashed succesfullt....reboot? Aug 30 23:51:57 yup Aug 30 23:52:00 reboooot Aug 30 23:52:07 s/re// Aug 30 23:52:07 MNZ meant: boooot Aug 30 23:52:09 and give it time to crank up stuff Aug 30 23:52:14 ENERGIZE Aug 30 23:52:14 heheh ok boooting Aug 30 23:52:19 kk Aug 30 23:53:10 * lcuk ponders what life would be like living so far away from wifey. she says i txt her more when i travel Aug 30 23:54:12 btw thx all you guys for the help..really appriciate it...i could use some good news after crashing my x200 laptop into shreds on the subway this week :) Aug 30 23:54:29 ouch Aug 30 23:54:46 yeah thats what i said when it happens only much louder ;-) Aug 30 23:54:47 jees, they are tough devices Aug 30 23:55:23 i know..its still semi works and its in the shop now...ill see at the end of the week what can be done.. Aug 30 23:55:49 get a toughbook CF-29 :-D Aug 30 23:55:54 hehehe Aug 30 23:56:27 not fast, but heavy and really ruggedized Aug 30 23:56:51 DocScrutinizer, i need something tough for my desk Aug 30 23:56:52 ok n900 seems to boot ok...so...am i safe or do i need to make some tests now on the emmc? Aug 30 23:56:58 90cm free fall, no harm Aug 30 23:57:08 nice pen+capacitive driven touch surface Aug 30 23:57:18 * lcuk needs to write on it as well as touch Aug 30 23:57:44 and about a4 sized! Aug 30 23:57:53 wow the toughbooks actually looks cool :) http://www.buytough.com/business-mobile.asp Aug 30 23:58:11 zeltak: I'm short of cute ideas regarding tests. You might want to dd some 20GB from dev/zero to a file on MySpace Aug 30 23:59:29 i see..ok ill do that. the thing is that i only got crashes when using emulators..thats what was weird Aug 30 23:59:30 yeah, and CF-27..29 can be used to place under the tire when your SUV gets stuck in a sandfield :-D Aug 30 23:59:43 * lcuk wants sapphire glass stuff actually Aug 30 23:59:52 lol..that was a good one :-) Aug 30 23:59:54 crowss bows fired at them etc Aug 31 00:00:18 but can they work as touch hmm Aug 31 00:00:53 lcuk: you lost me Aug 31 00:00:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAdku9YhSCI Aug 31 00:00:59 see that Aug 31 00:01:16 so i guess back to normal with n900..let the re-installing beginen ;-) Aug 31 00:01:22 thx agian guys appriciate it! Aug 31 00:01:30 zeltak, when you boot Aug 31 00:01:34 before you do much else Aug 31 00:01:39 could you get output of "df" please Aug 31 00:01:45 and save it to a file Aug 31 00:01:51 and when you get everything running pastebin it Aug 31 00:01:53 :) Aug 31 00:02:32 sure lcuk Aug 31 00:02:54 great :) Aug 31 00:02:57 so pastbin it before the installs or now? Aug 31 00:03:06 before you install everything Aug 31 00:03:15 kk will do it now Aug 31 00:03:21 so essentially we have a freespace after flash log, not sure if its anywhere Aug 31 00:03:26 but I always forget Aug 31 00:03:35 and install tonnes of stuff Aug 31 00:03:46 sure np give me a sec Aug 31 00:03:50 \o/ Aug 31 00:04:09 lcuk: (shoot at moni) yes, and tomorrow I have a date with santa claus Aug 31 00:04:14 DocScrutinizer, for future reference do you think theres a set of commands we oculd pull into a single short script to get stats Aug 31 00:04:30 to ask people who are having problems to run in one shot Aug 31 00:04:35 which sort of stats Aug 31 00:04:53 hmm, quite some... Aug 31 00:04:55 diskspace mounts processes + any other misc things Aug 31 00:05:06 the normal stuff we ask for on regular basis Aug 31 00:05:29 where's speedevil? Aug 31 00:05:40 well yeah, its just a ponderment Aug 31 00:05:48 seem to remember he was working on such a thing Aug 31 00:05:49 but if we had a single command on device we could ask Aug 31 00:05:55 SHIT.... Aug 31 00:06:06 it would have to be very small though, minimal dependencies Aug 31 00:06:07 whats up Aug 31 00:06:09 N900 is screwed...:( :( Aug 31 00:06:17 just had a reboot..no..... Aug 31 00:06:17 in what regard Aug 31 00:06:35 it just frooze and rebooted Aug 31 00:06:51 cat /proc/bootreason Aug 31 00:06:52 oh man....what a week... Aug 31 00:07:27 wow after a reboot cant open xterm... Aug 31 00:07:32 what-the=hellll Aug 31 00:07:33 "cat /proc/boot_reason" please Aug 31 00:07:35 hmm Aug 31 00:07:52 lcuk: you're cheating Aug 31 00:07:58 why Aug 31 00:08:06 you ls Aug 31 00:08:15 and zeltak do you have an extrnal mms plugged in and a sim? Aug 31 00:08:20 mmc Aug 31 00:08:23 mms no sim yes Aug 31 00:08:29 *mmc Aug 31 00:08:30 :) Aug 31 00:08:39 i do have a sim inside Aug 31 00:08:49 when you say can't open xterm, what happens Aug 31 00:09:18 i get a black screen saying internal error Aug 31 00:09:38 umm Aug 31 00:10:05 ok reboot fixed it Aug 31 00:10:07 can you start other apps? Aug 31 00:10:25 DocScrutinizer: yes seems so Aug 31 00:10:35 i can now get access to the term after a reboot Aug 31 00:10:42 cat /proc/bootreason? Aug 31 00:11:02 err yup, something like that Aug 31 00:11:26 well it says power key but that makes sense since i did use the pkey after the xterm didnt launch Aug 31 00:11:33 if you manually rebooted yeah Aug 31 00:11:34 at least if that's been an unsolicited boot Aug 31 00:11:49 hmm, no Aug 31 00:11:58 then it's not helpful Aug 31 00:12:32 no,have a run around and see if anything jumps again, but thats a bit unnormal Aug 31 00:12:43 kinda sounds like your device is acting unstable Aug 31 00:12:51 * lcuk nods Aug 31 00:13:14 yeah...i wonder if indeed the emmc is defective but the reflashing went without issues Aug 31 00:13:28 yeah theres normally lots of checking on flashing Aug 31 00:13:45 not on eMMC Aug 31 00:14:20 ahh where it expand fills with 0s? Aug 31 00:14:33 or whatever it does Aug 31 00:14:37 yep Aug 31 00:14:44 to make a 500mb image occupy 30gb Aug 31 00:14:51 * lcuk nods Aug 31 00:15:29 so what do you guys suggest..take it back or test it some more? Aug 31 00:15:58 zeltak, if you are in a position to get it replaced, i think i would Aug 31 00:16:09 lcuk: http://pastebin.com/Xn4CmVRM Aug 31 00:16:15 dd if=/dev/zero of=~/MyDocs/xxx bs=1M count=15000 Aug 31 00:16:35 lcuk: well i bought it 2nd hand so its not going to be easy (even though its under warrent) Aug 31 00:16:49 DocScrutinizer: will do it now Aug 31 00:16:50 zeltak, then have a run around the device and see Aug 31 00:17:07 DocScrutinizer, what cpu speed is it running at when flasher is on Aug 31 00:17:14 and whilst in flash mode rather Aug 31 00:17:17 s/15000/GB * 1000 Aug 31 00:17:19 is it top speed? Aug 31 00:17:24 or some lower fraction Aug 31 00:17:32 or is that unknown Aug 31 00:17:37 -50 for overhead Aug 31 00:18:49 lcuk: no clue Aug 31 00:19:17 DocScrutinizer: the above dd dosent work Aug 31 00:19:19 zeltak, just install your stuff and have a poke about Aug 31 00:19:26 so 'unknown' is pretty much what describes it best Aug 31 00:19:27 and see if it happens again Aug 31 00:19:37 ok lcuk Aug 31 00:19:39 * lcuk makes a note to ask Aug 31 00:20:07 zeltak: why? Aug 31 00:20:11 Any one else have any NAND bad blocks? I'm seeing this very early in boot "Scanning device for bad blocks" "onenand_bbt_wait: ecc error = 0x2222, controller error 0x2400" "Bad eraseblock 254 at 0x01fc0000" Aug 31 00:20:14 i remember my old athlon used to get hot in bios Aug 31 00:20:38 SpacedOut, technically bad blocks are normal Aug 31 00:20:39 j Aug 31 00:20:50 the device happily marks them bad and works round them Aug 31 00:21:06 DocScrutinizer: dunno it just gives me the dd options Aug 31 00:21:08 or something like that Aug 31 00:21:33 there's been even a competiton afternoon here some time ago, who's got the least number of bad blocks on NAND Aug 31 00:21:48 lcuk: I rebooted and it didn't come up until I reflashed the rootfs, unfortunately I don't have an old dmesg that I know of to know if it just happened and that's why it couldn't boot or not. Aug 31 00:22:00 The device capacity is specced something like "256M after 1 million write cycles to each block" Aug 31 00:22:17 zeltak: strange. probably it doesn't like the ~ Aug 31 00:22:36 The initial capacity is higher than this, with the expectatrion that blocks will fail in use Aug 31 00:22:54 hi se Aug 31 00:22:56 Interesting, one of the guys at worked checked and he didn't have any bad blocks. Aug 31 00:22:59 ill try with full path Aug 31 00:23:56 The flashing software also detects and writes around bad blocks as well? Aug 31 00:24:11 SpacedOut: yes. Aug 31 00:24:14 SpeedEvil: hi, where you've been? Aug 31 00:24:39 i am off to bed anyway Aug 31 00:24:42 gnite chaps Aug 31 00:24:51 night lcuk Aug 31 00:24:56 mhm .. i think my LED controller crashed .. need to pull out battery to do a cold boot to make it work again Aug 31 00:25:00 zeltak: yeah, and check my syntax Aug 31 00:25:01 thc lcuk and gdnight Aug 31 00:25:08 kk DocScrutinizer Aug 31 00:25:14 zeltak: it's late here Aug 31 00:25:26 :) Aug 31 00:25:37 lcuk: night Aug 31 00:26:18 cehteh: :-P Aug 31 00:27:18 things getting too complex when something which could be done with a transistor and a resistor in the old days can crash now Aug 31 00:27:24 ok, I'm wasting too much time on this Aug 31 00:27:33 cehteh: lol Aug 31 00:27:37 if anyone wants to pick up where I left off, contact me before I forget everything I did tonight Aug 31 00:27:40 DocScrutinizer: I have been cleaning up after my fishtank leaked. Aug 31 00:27:47 Involving moving all furniture, ... Aug 31 00:28:04 ok DocScrutinizer i think its working with full paths Aug 31 00:28:19 luke-jr, pick up what? Aug 31 00:28:19 SpeedEvil: lcuk asked about a general diagnostics script, for 'helpdesk purposes' Aug 31 00:28:27 ah Aug 31 00:28:29 MNZ: telepathy-spirit on x86 Linux Aug 31 00:28:36 MNZ: aka Skype w/o Skype Aug 31 00:29:09 I could distribute a live diagnostics program. Aug 31 00:29:17 MNZ: also the only remote possibility of getting N900 video chat with desktop Linux Aug 31 00:29:20 Funded by retrieved credit card numbers. Aug 31 00:29:21 zeltak: prepare for making and drinking a cup of coffee :-P Aug 31 00:29:34 luke-jr, oh sweet! a quick fill in perhaps? Aug 31 00:29:49 SpeedEvil, simple script, runs once saves file in MyDocs and also somewhere else. no real extra dependencies Aug 31 00:29:51 MNZ: ok, first of all, skyhost crashes in qemu-user, so don't bother trying that Aug 31 00:29:58 something user can be talked to plug back into desktop pc and upload Aug 31 00:30:03 yeah Aug 31 00:30:05 MNZ: I'm working with the qemu-maemo fork on gitorious Aug 31 00:30:24 k, taking notes Aug 31 00:30:45 gets output of the commands we ask all the time Aug 31 00:30:48 MNZ: you can dd all your /dev/mtd* together to create a mtdblock image for it, and then replace NOLO with MeeGo's NOLO, plus an extra 8 MB on the end, to make it boot in qemu Aug 31 00:30:51 SpeedEvil: :-D Aug 31 00:31:26 oh qemu knows n900 now? Aug 31 00:31:33 SpeedEvil, and keep the CC sniffing thing away. this is to be short, simple, verifiable and no personal data Aug 31 00:31:52 MNZ: to avoid overhead, I also hacked up the start of my /sbin/preinit to simply load the smc91x module (for Ethernet) and run udhcpc to get an IP, after which it just execs /bin/sh Aug 31 00:31:56 nox-: a fork does Aug 31 00:32:03 but i am sleeping Aug 31 00:32:05 aah Aug 31 00:32:08 link? :) Aug 31 00:32:33 MNZ: git://git.collabora.co.uk/git/user/alban/dbus-daemon-proxy can be run on the host machine to provide dbus over TCP Aug 31 00:32:37 lcuk: at least neads a call to pastebinit in the end Aug 31 00:32:53 no, thats an extra dependency Aug 31 00:33:00 if we get the file stored on mydocs Aug 31 00:33:03 MNZ: the qemu side can connect to it with DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=tcp:host=10.0.2.2,port=1234,family=ipv4 (not sure that's the env var name…) Aug 31 00:33:13 most people can go from there Aug 31 00:33:31 lcuk: there's pastbinit implemented in scripting Aug 31 00:33:34 DocScrutinizer, i just want to make the process a little less painful Aug 31 00:33:37 perl or sth Aug 31 00:33:39 not try to be too clever Aug 31 00:33:42 MNZ: from there, it's a matter of making the qemu side start its telepathy-spirit and connect/auth with the real session bus, when telepathy wants it to start Aug 31 00:34:24 MNZ: big unknown, and why I'm not going on right now: skyhost also has binaries 'videohost' and 'voicehost', which are probably needed for video chat too, and telepathy doesn't *really* support voice/video Aug 31 00:34:42 so how videohost/voicehost would talk to the host system is unknown at this time Aug 31 00:35:13 potentially, you may need a guest-side app handling forwarding RTP Aug 31 00:35:18 lcuk: and, on assuming we don't want user to type in the script manually anyway, it can as well become a 200k or 2M executable of any kind Aug 31 00:35:32 lcuk: selfcomprised Aug 31 00:35:37 luke-jr, ok, all duly noted. (and in the IRC logs as well) Aug 31 00:35:40 ☺ Aug 31 00:35:46 but you don't plan on continuing work on this? Aug 31 00:35:52 it's taking too much time ☹ Aug 31 00:36:17 I really *need* it in a week from today, but I have higher priorities Aug 31 00:36:40 also, telepathy-spirit was acting odd in the VM Aug 31 00:36:47 not sure where to begin troubleshooting that Aug 31 00:36:59 it sounded like it expected skyhost to *already* be running Aug 31 00:37:09 I might take a detour from what I'm doing now and look into this, seems interesting. But I have a lot of downloading to do :-X Aug 31 00:37:31 I'd just boot the full Maemo in the VM, but it doesn't emulate SGX, so Maemo crashes and reboots Aug 31 00:37:53 so probably one needs to figure out exactly what other stuff to run for it Aug 31 00:38:36 but the end result of all this? no easy solution for the avg joe? Aug 31 00:38:45 nope Aug 31 00:38:59 none of the Maemo stuff is redistributable of course Aug 31 00:39:29 luke-jr, not *legally* anyway ;) Aug 31 00:40:07 though I don't intend to distribute anything illegally, just saying Aug 31 00:40:24 * MNZ >.> <.< Aug 31 00:40:29 in theory, one could make an app that SSH's to a N900 to build the image… :p Aug 31 00:40:43 then the avg joe just installs sshd, and voila Aug 31 00:41:11 in theory, yes. Aug 31 00:44:43 I have never really used skype, so does anyone know what's the state of the linux client? it doesn't do video? Aug 31 00:45:58 not with N900 Aug 31 00:46:26 nor does Mac for that matter Aug 31 00:46:39 only the latest beta for Windows Aug 31 00:49:42 i thought theres a linux skype version with video? Aug 31 00:50:10 nox-, there is apparently, it just doesn't do calls with the version on the n900 Aug 31 00:50:21 aah Aug 31 00:50:22 read what luke-jr just said Aug 31 00:50:44 yeah i should pay attention :P Aug 31 00:58:27 DocScrutinizer: so far so goos..2GB... Aug 31 00:58:32 *good Aug 31 01:04:45 I'm off to get some eye-shut time. night folks Aug 31 01:44:12 DocScrutinizer: still awake? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 31 02:59:57 2010