**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 01 02:59:57 2010 Sep 01 03:09:26 So have anyone got git working - I can not find it in the repos, and no one else seems to miss it. Sep 01 03:10:11 I have git working on Gentoo Sep 01 03:10:52 lol. Sep 01 03:11:26 :< Sep 01 03:11:45 you know you want it… Sep 01 03:12:13 I want a mail client that isn't modest Sep 01 03:12:19 suggestions? Sep 01 03:12:20 Dhraakellian: KMail! Sep 01 03:12:34 ...on maemo/n900? Sep 01 03:12:42 not Maemo, Gentoo! Sep 01 03:13:00 I already use kmail on the desktop and netbook Sep 01 03:13:13 so it will fit in on your N900 :D Sep 01 03:13:33 ...and I've done the whole gentoo thing Sep 01 03:13:42 great Sep 01 03:13:48 emerge kmail Sep 01 03:13:55 then wait maybe a day Sep 01 03:13:57 <.< Sep 01 03:14:06 I'd prefer not to do it again without a really beefy machine or a compile farm of beefy machines Sep 01 03:14:19 N900 isn't beefy enough for you? Sep 01 03:14:42 poor little N900 Sep 01 03:14:46 dotdotdot Sep 01 03:14:50 … Sep 01 03:15:05 dhraakellian, mutt? Sep 01 03:15:19 when I switched to Gentoo, my 800 MHz Pentium 3 was good Sep 01 03:15:36 600 MHz ARM even better Sep 01 03:15:50 too bad the eMMC is so slow Sep 01 03:15:52 <.< Sep 01 03:15:56 scp1: is that in extras of any flavor? Sep 01 03:16:25 * luke-jr notes there *was* a KDE 4 port to Maemo 4 Sep 01 03:16:44 I think I saw something about that a while back Sep 01 03:16:46 dhraakellian, no idea mate Sep 01 03:16:59 still trying to tame this stupid package manager :< Sep 01 03:17:19 * Dhraakellian just doesn't like Mutt's lack of threading Sep 01 03:17:46 threading *threads* or threading as in multiple threads? Sep 01 03:17:53 * luke-jr notes there's nothing to gain from threading on N900 Sep 01 03:17:58 oh, lol Sep 01 03:18:02 forgot that kind of threading Sep 01 03:18:25 if it's the first, mutt does that Sep 01 03:18:49 if it's the second, I have no idea what on earth you would benefit from that on any arch :p Sep 01 03:18:50 scp1: you realize your question made no sense, right? Sep 01 03:18:52 scp1: display of messages Sep 01 03:19:04 luke-jr, git? why? Sep 01 03:19:08 better would have been: threading as in message flow, or as in code flow? Sep 01 03:19:17 yeah Sep 01 03:19:19 scp1: erm... I meant *Modest*'s lack of threading Sep 01 03:19:20 sorry Sep 01 03:19:23 ewps Sep 01 03:19:40 and the benefit of code threading on multi-core systems is that it can use both/all/more cores Sep 01 03:20:05 I know all this mate. But look at mutt. It's not exactly something that needs much power :p Sep 01 03:20:31 power in, power out Sep 01 03:20:39 if it doesn't need much power, it can't give much power! Sep 01 03:20:40 power up! Sep 01 03:22:55 http://www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/upload/multimedia/mario_power_up.mp3 Sep 01 03:27:13 so let's see... mutt, htop, mc... Sep 01 03:27:36 then I'd just need to get an ncurses dialer and bsdgames Sep 01 03:28:04 well if you're gonna use CLI anyway, might as well go with Gentoo Sep 01 03:28:09 it's only slow when you build KDE Sep 01 03:28:27 or ... anything Sep 01 03:29:36 pfft Sep 01 03:29:45 everything else can build overnight Sep 01 03:30:23 "hey look there's a new feature of foo out! guess I'll have to remember to start building it overnight so that I can use it sometime tomorrow if I remember!" Sep 01 03:30:36 well, at least htop and mc can use the stylus for some things Sep 01 03:30:39 can mut? Sep 01 03:30:42 +t Sep 01 03:32:09 johnx: or you can wait weeks for someone to port it to Maemo and get it into extras ;) Sep 01 03:33:29 and since the port will probably never get into upstream, since it's hacky by nature, when Maemo 5 is completely abandoned, you'll be dead in the water Sep 01 03:35:37 luke-jr, I don't see how waiting for someone to make a 'port-file' or 'recipe' or whatever for it is any different than a .deb Sep 01 03:36:05 anyways, tell me when you have dialer in gentoo that works on the N900 Sep 01 03:36:06 making ebuilds is easy Sep 01 03:36:12 making a .deb for Maemo is not Sep 01 03:36:27 made both. don't see much difference Sep 01 03:36:28 johnx: the telepathy-qt4 example should work fine Sep 01 03:36:48 and you're not using it because ... ? Sep 01 03:37:00 because I haven't bothered to Sep 01 03:37:11 real convincing Sep 01 03:37:14 :p Sep 01 03:37:26 it's not like dialer does anything more complex than my desktop on N900 Sep 01 03:38:13 hmm Sep 01 03:38:29 100% of my phone service is SIP (or IAX2) Sep 01 03:39:34 hmm... mutt is in extras-devel Sep 01 04:02:25 hmm... "no applications available" Sep 01 04:02:56 apt-get update && apt-get install mutt # should do it Sep 01 04:03:31 But I'm just ssh'ing to the server where I have my mutt already configured and running Sep 01 04:03:41 that's probably easier for you as well Sep 01 04:04:27 yarr, but... Sep 01 04:04:33 apt-get update Sep 01 04:04:47 fails? yeah, I know Sep 01 04:05:02 E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (2 No such file or directory) Sep 01 04:05:13 E: Unable to lock the list directory Sep 01 04:05:35 touch /var/lib/apt/lists/lock Sep 01 04:05:42 are you trying to run two package manangers at the same time? That's what the lock should prevent :p Sep 01 04:05:55 ah, yes, atrp, faster than jfgi sometimes Sep 01 04:06:00 * Dhraakellian was seriously about to jfgi Sep 01 04:06:25 scp1, it's not locked, the lock file isn't there :p Sep 01 04:06:32 That was my point :p Sep 01 04:06:49 it's not caused by two managers Sep 01 04:06:51 I thought I had closed it... Sep 01 04:06:56 it's caused by one failing Sep 01 04:07:03 I see Sep 01 04:07:03 or wait... memory playing tricks on me now Sep 01 04:07:12 Wed Sep 1 00:04:49 EDT 2010 Sep 01 04:07:17 that might be why Sep 01 04:07:17 apt seems to fail quite a bit Sep 01 04:07:18 :p Sep 01 04:08:18 moo Sep 01 04:09:32 do you have super cow powers? Sep 01 04:10:55 btw, I managed to get the proper coreutils to be used by default, it was just a $PATH issue. /usr/bin/gnu/ wasnt expected though Sep 01 04:11:50 heh... had to do a mkdir first Sep 01 04:16:42 ...and after all that, I forgot to reenable extras-devel Sep 01 04:16:46 *facepalm* Sep 01 04:18:43 reenabled in app manager Sep 01 04:19:00 ...and now package management is locked Sep 01 04:19:14 * Dhraakellian fires up htop Sep 01 04:21:50 Dhraakellian, killall apt-worker Sep 01 04:23:35 .. patience ... Sep 01 04:25:40 * scp1 plays 'Double Talkin' Jive' for cehteh Sep 01 04:26:06 mutt: Depends: slang1a-utf8 (> 1.4.9dbs-4) but it is not installable Sep 01 04:29:10 And I'm going home Sep 01 05:01:21 *cough* moo Sep 01 05:02:13 moo Sep 01 05:05:25 I see hope again for hostmode, paul actively participating now Sep 01 05:06:10 at least until it turns out Nokia isn't capable to send devices to Russia :-S Sep 01 05:06:37 dunno Sep 01 05:07:13 * Stskeeps checks some flight prices Sep 01 05:14:04 * RST38h moos in the morning fog Sep 01 05:14:15 Stskeeps: how are things? Sep 01 05:14:20 RST38h, m00f Sep 01 05:14:20 zzz Sep 01 05:14:20 :P Sep 01 05:14:47 * DocScrutinizer coughs a lil more Sep 01 05:14:50 * johnx recovers "important business documents" from an HFS+ fs Sep 01 05:15:08 johnx: heya Sep 01 05:15:50 RST38h, how's it going? still summer over there? Sep 01 05:16:13 johnx: Thankfully, no. Sep 01 05:16:37 johnx: 13oC, cloudy Sep 01 05:16:39 ~weather EDDN Sep 01 05:16:43 Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.09.01 0450 UTC; Dew Point: 46 F (8 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.09 in. Hg (1019 hPa); Relative Humidity: 100%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 46 F (8 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the ESE (110 degrees) at 3 MPH (3 KT) Sep 01 05:17:24 Sep 01 05:17:36 johnx: Had enough summer for this year. Sep 01 05:17:38 DocScrutinizer, soooo, you're saying I don't need to ask you "how's the weather?" Sep 01 05:18:03 I could suggest thefuckingweather.com Sep 01 05:18:05 RST38h, 9 months of overcast and drizzle for me, starting ... now Sep 01 05:18:12 they're usually right Sep 01 05:18:16 :-D Sep 01 05:18:52 it'd be awesome if they did some basic geolocation Sep 01 05:19:17 yo Sep 01 05:19:23 johnx: Same here Sep 01 05:19:42 johnx: except that the drizzle will become snow at some point. Sep 01 05:20:20 on the one hand, a snow day generally closes down the office. on the other hand a snow day generally closes down the *power* to the office Sep 01 05:20:29 soooo, mixed feelings on snow Sep 01 05:21:40 as long as it's not blackouting your internet provider and gsm carrier ;-) Sep 01 05:22:23 johnx: nothing like that here Sep 01 05:22:45 johnx: or the place would be shuttered for half of the winter Sep 01 05:22:58 yeah Sep 01 05:23:20 DocScrutinizer, generally GSM is fine, and the power at my house seems more reliable than the power at work ... Sep 01 05:23:24 RST38h: how is shipping from Nokia to your place, usually? Sep 01 05:23:40 RST38h, oh, it's not *every* office here, just our little block of converted warehouses Sep 01 05:24:29 johnx: sorry I have to say that, but: sounds like USA Sep 01 05:24:54 sounds like the wrong priorities in real estate shopping to me, but I didn't have a say Sep 01 05:25:44 I have a funny feeling you can find buildings with poor wiring no matter what part of the world you're in Sep 01 05:26:09 nah, not here :-P Sep 01 05:26:26 you know we're THE KRAUTS Sep 01 05:29:14 DocScrutinizer, uh huh. not sure I entirely believe that :P Sep 01 05:29:47 the electricians I had the pleasure to learn to know in New Orleans some 25 years ago, well they probably weren't allowed to plug in thei own electric shaver here in Germany Sep 01 05:31:30 heh. actually that reminds me of visiting the mozilla/maemo thing in copenhagen and plugging a US power strip into an EU->US plug adapter, so we had a US powerstrip spitting out 220v Sep 01 05:31:43 it arced something fierce when you plugged anything into it Sep 01 05:31:53 scared the natives :> Sep 01 05:31:58 :P Sep 01 05:32:06 meh Sep 01 05:32:53 DocScrutinizer, I think I just failed to prove my point Sep 01 05:33:18 but suffice to say the people who wired the office I work in would get a "very poor" rating even by my standards Sep 01 05:33:48 :nod: Sep 01 05:34:53 everyone, quick, stop writing damn incompatible and hell knows for what version kernel patches for n8x0. you're just adding more mess. Sep 01 05:34:53 * slonopotamus found one more set of patches, on top of 2.6.34-rc2 Sep 01 05:35:25 odds are in Germany you're going to do some years in jail, for delivering such poor standards as an electrician Sep 01 05:35:44 Doc: Shipping? Very easy. I travel to US, get the package there, then travel back. Sep 01 05:35:48 ;) Sep 01 05:36:20 so, the RST38h courier service? I'd trust that over UPS ... Sep 01 05:36:29 RST38h: not by any chance and incident you're going to do that any time soon? Sep 01 05:36:38 johnx: Well, when it comes to going through .RU customs, any time Sep 01 05:36:52 Doc: Like, this Saturday. Why? Sep 01 05:37:25 damn, seems Nokia sees no way to ship a devel device to Moskow Sep 01 05:37:35 to Paul Sep 01 05:37:38 There is an easier way Sep 01 05:37:49 Doc: I have got a devel device here that I need to return to Nokia Sep 01 05:37:51 this saturday would be really really great Sep 01 05:38:10 Doc: Talk to Quim. If Quim says "yes", I can pass it to whoever Quim names. Sep 01 05:38:34 RST38h: that's great, mate :-D Sep 01 05:38:55 Doc: Just, please, do it TODAY, ok? Because otherwise, I will send it back to Nokia once I go to the US Sep 01 05:39:23 I'll try to get into contact to everybody involved Sep 01 05:43:13 * Dhraakellian decides not to mess with stuff anymore for the night/morning Sep 01 05:43:37 * Dhraakellian comments out extras-testing and -devel until he specifically needs something from them again Sep 01 05:44:03 Dhraakellian, you win the common sense award! yay! Sep 01 05:44:07 * scp1 have just spent 30 min porting a mplayer daemon to maemo, and it works! Sep 01 05:44:29 * Dhraakellian misses zypper Sep 01 05:44:50 scp1, hooray, what are you going to do with it? Sep 01 05:44:54 see, with zypper, I could've just done rootsh zypper mr -d repoalias Sep 01 05:45:13 wouldn't have had to edit a sources.list file and apt-get update Sep 01 05:45:48 * Dhraakellian wonders if it'd be possible to get zypper running on maemo/dpkg Sep 01 05:46:11 surfa, I use it all the time on all boxes, for example, I'm streaming all my music from the main server, so I can just rmcd -l shiva and then I can go and do something else. It works on local files and other radio stations etc as well.. Very handy imo Sep 01 05:46:29 Dhra: probably not Sep 01 05:46:42 Dhra: on the other hand, enabling extras-testing is perfectly ok Sep 01 05:47:01 By not enabling it, you will be missing on a lot of useful software Sep 01 05:47:18 omfg, where's gan900? Sep 01 05:47:26 > root Sep 01 05:47:26 Illegal instruction Sep 01 05:47:28 what? Sep 01 05:47:29 asleep? Sep 01 05:48:20 sure, but usually his IRC avatar never sleeps Sep 01 05:48:27 GeneralAntilles: ping Sep 01 05:49:28 hmm... I think zypper/libzypp can work on top of deb/dpkg Sep 01 05:50:04 umm, maybe Sep 01 05:51:28 Dhraakellian: you prefer zypper over the incredible awesomeness of apt-get? X-D Sep 01 05:52:00 DocScrutinizer: zypper is also a tad more concise, which is nice on the thumbboard Sep 01 05:52:12 and it also doesn't have that annoying hyphen in the command name Sep 01 05:52:29 usually people are asking for ` alias apt-get=zypper`, for meego :-D Sep 01 05:52:52 Hah! Sep 01 05:53:08 * Dhraakellian uses openSUSE 11.2 and 11.3 on the desktop and netbook, respectively Sep 01 05:53:17 same here Sep 01 05:53:39 and the Desktop will probably be getting 11.3 this weekend, coinciding with a massive harddrive upgrade Sep 01 05:56:08 opensuse and I don't always really get along ... Sep 01 05:56:26 * Dhraakellian remembers bad old days when (open)SUSE package management was dead slow, even/especially from the commandline Sep 01 05:57:00 and it still might not always be quite so fast as apt-get, but then again, it does check for repo updates every time unless you tell it not to Sep 01 05:57:11 but other than that, it's pretty good Sep 01 05:58:47 >>yeah, but it's so slooooow<< They need to overclock their N900 for getting done the 5500 Zypper commands per day, if ever they move to meego :-P Sep 01 05:59:34 I mainly fought with network config on a server, but part of the anger that I associate with it is probably best aimed at the vendor/consultant who listed opensuse as a requirement then changed his mind ... Sep 01 06:00:18 DocScrutinizer: meh. If I'm in a hurry, I just add --no-refresh Sep 01 06:00:35 on the n900, I'd probably alias that in and do zypper ref when needed Sep 01 06:00:55 :nod: Sep 01 06:00:58 O_o, telepathy irc group chat ui works :) Sep 01 06:01:27 xnt14_N900, terrifying. is it reasonable to use? Sep 01 06:01:49 'zypper --no-refresh ref' does indeed appear to work and refresh repos, so yeah... I'd do that aliasing Sep 01 06:01:55 Johnx, hmm, looks pretty usable... Sep 01 06:02:03 ...unless, of course, there's a config setting to not refresh automatically Sep 01 06:02:24 No tab-completion though :( Sep 01 06:02:51 xnt14_N900, do you get nick hilighting and/or some kind of alert? Sep 01 06:03:36 * Dhraakellian wants to try KDE 4.5 with plasma-mobile on his n900 Sep 01 06:03:53 * Dhraakellian does not, however, have the expertise to manually get it running himself Sep 01 06:04:02 meh Sep 01 06:05:18 KDE4, what a sad example of deliberate regression on a macroscopic level Sep 01 06:05:57 DocScrutinizer, you mean they didn't do a good job of regressing globally? Sep 01 06:06:33 actually they did. Seems it's the only thing they did a good job at Sep 01 06:07:21 DocScrutinizer: try something later than 4.0.x Sep 01 06:07:29 actually, 4.2 or later Sep 01 06:07:32 preferably 4.5 Sep 01 06:08:45 * johnx always liked WindowMaker Sep 01 06:08:55 KDE4.3.1 here, still more segfaults in everything than KDE1. Not to mention all the other regressions and 'minor' bugs Sep 01 06:11:19 http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/how_google_maps_actually_works.jpg Sep 01 06:11:43 :) Sep 01 06:12:13 Isn't is possibly to use the official debian arm repos for us? Sep 01 06:12:18 possible, even Sep 01 06:12:27 Jartza, how magic 8-balls actually work: http://sale.images.woot.com/Ask_Again_Later7d7Detail.png Sep 01 06:12:48 scp1, to install things onto maemo or onto a debian chroot? Sep 01 06:13:18 johnx, to maemo, I'm not sure I'd want to try the chroot again :) Sep 01 06:13:59 scp1, doing that is a bit more risky than using a chroot ... Sep 01 06:14:23 ouff. Why is that? Sep 01 06:15:27 scp1, because debian packages all depend on a certain set of core packages and maemo has a different set it depends on Sep 01 06:15:43 I see.. Sep 01 06:15:53 basically, most debian packages will probably just try to install coreutils, get halfway through replacing busybox and make your phone unbootable Sep 01 06:16:32 fwiw dpkg -i --force-all bla.deb from debian arm repo has worked the few times ive tried Sep 01 06:16:33 sounds reasonable. Sep 01 06:16:47 installing coreutils shouldn't really impact messybox though Sep 01 06:17:16 DocScrutinizer, uhm, what? Sep 01 06:17:18 coreutils-gnu doesn't do update-alternatives Sep 01 06:17:46 you mean the maemo package? or the debian package? Sep 01 06:18:01 hmm, of course not the deb pkg Sep 01 06:19:19 you *could* probably modify a fair number of maemo packages to say they 'Provide: ' whatever the debian package needs Sep 01 06:19:45 but IIRC, 'Provides: ' has some issue with versions, so version specific dependencies would fail Sep 01 06:19:49 or something like that Sep 01 06:19:53 been a while Sep 01 06:19:58 Well, where do one modify such things? I'm so used to the simplicity of PKGBUILDS Sep 01 06:20:41 get the source package, tweak its debian/control, debuild (or dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot or whatever) in the SDK Sep 01 06:20:47 frals: ack, same here Sep 01 06:20:52 rinse, repeat Sep 01 06:21:13 Okay. This dpkg business is so darn complicated :< oh well Sep 01 06:22:17 ~seen jebba Sep 01 06:22:22 jebba <~jebba@8.20.201.9> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 51d 4h 57m 19s ago, saying: 'Well, you better wear a helmet around here....'. Sep 01 06:22:43 hope he did Sep 01 06:23:00 seems /topic is incorrect :-( Sep 01 06:23:39 http://espejo.freemoe.org/ down temporarily or jebba nuked it definitely? Sep 01 06:23:43 dunno Sep 01 06:24:56 scp1, it's really not *that* bad normally. It's just that maemo is really far from debuntu in terms of core packages Sep 01 06:26:05 hopefully it gets better everyday though. is n900 the only available device running maemo as of today? Sep 01 06:26:21 except the old n800 Sep 01 06:26:40 well, there are some very strangely hacked up maemo running devices in China Sep 01 06:26:43 777/N800/N810 Sep 01 06:26:47 heh, figured :) Sep 01 06:26:47 but they're not available to export for the most part Sep 01 06:27:01 err 770 Sep 01 06:27:38 I'm not going to claim that Maemo is the best distribution ever, just that the really broken feeling parts mostly don't come from debuntu Sep 01 06:27:39 There should be more. This is the only proper phone I've seen. And, for a phone to proper, it have to be running linux and it have to be a computer, imo :) Sep 01 06:28:29 heh, the first case of antitrolling Sep 01 06:28:33 Well it's not maemo I'm having trouble with, it's the package management. But I've never liked dpkg/apt... it overcomplicates things Sep 01 06:28:51 I'll learn that, too, though Sep 01 06:29:07 it's a bit arcane, but it's not all that complicated Sep 01 06:29:14 the biggest problem is figuring out where to get started Sep 01 06:29:26 I can only compare to pacman/ABS Sep 01 06:29:26 * Stskeeps likes the lean-and-mean approach of meego Sep 01 06:29:33 (and yeah, my favorite setup is actually OE for the build and opkg for the binary packages) Sep 01 06:29:43 base system, enough to start up x, run qt, and daemons activated over dbus.. Sep 01 06:30:34 But hey, before I actually bought the device I thought I was gonna install arch on it, but I might actually stick with this. Sep 01 06:31:03 meh opkg Sep 01 06:31:21 and the maemo community seems great Sep 01 06:31:30 :) Sep 01 06:31:35 not like the ubuntu one... Sep 01 06:31:47 yeah Sep 01 06:31:48 seems Sep 01 06:31:56 that's a keyword there Sep 01 06:32:02 ack Sep 01 06:32:11 all communities have growing pains ... Sep 01 06:32:11 moo jacekowski Sep 01 06:32:18 yeah, I guess. Sep 01 06:32:41 hmm, i overslept Sep 01 06:32:42 again Sep 01 06:32:47 i have to go to work Sep 01 06:32:55 * DocScrutinizer waves Sep 01 06:33:59 scp1: wait till your first tmo blues hits Sep 01 06:34:12 docscrutinizer, what? Sep 01 06:34:54 ~tmo Sep 01 06:34:54 rumour has it, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or trolls, morons, oxes Sep 01 06:35:05 lol Sep 01 06:35:28 ~uptime Sep 01 06:35:31 :o Sep 01 06:35:42 ~status Sep 01 06:35:43 Since Sat Aug 28 11:30:50 2010, there have been 4 modifications, 116 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 55 commands. I have been awake for 3d 19h 2m 28s this session, and currently reference 117241 factoids. I'm using about 20212 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 1152.94/23.95 child 0/0 Sep 01 06:35:51 purl, nice Sep 01 06:38:03 test Sep 01 06:38:35 failed Sep 01 06:38:44 zsircusr, command not found Sep 01 06:39:19 kk Sep 01 06:40:37 moo tekojo Sep 01 06:40:51 hi DocScrutinizer Sep 01 06:41:43 windows mobile bad :( Sep 01 06:41:59 coffee tasty Sep 01 06:42:23 congratulations, both of your understatements have entirely canceled each other out with their magnitude Sep 01 06:42:54 johnx: that's been the plan :-D Sep 01 06:43:42 in fact if we had a scale that had bad at one end and good at the other we could probably just replace bad with winmo and good with coffee and still get the point across just fine Sep 01 07:03:04 RST38h: when are you going back from USA? Sep 01 07:15:56 Khertan: ping Sep 01 07:19:19 which tool to use on maemo for doing code-coverage for a c++ code ? Sep 01 07:21:52 galatage: there isn't any Sep 01 07:22:27 galatage: at least, none specific to Maemo. You may want to see if there are any available as part of the G++ suite, or related to it. Sep 01 07:23:09 crashanddie: thank you.. will check that out Sep 01 07:39:43 wazd: #meego-art exists now too Sep 01 07:41:22 Stskeeps: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1772762&cid=33432938 Sep 01 07:41:24 :) Sep 01 07:41:26 \o/, it lives! Sep 01 07:41:36 * lupine_85 just had to reflash his N900 for the first time Sep 01 07:42:00 enchantments? Sep 01 07:42:09 Stskeeps: o/ thanks :) Sep 01 07:42:51 timeless_mbp, the most common enchantment being "use this app and die a virgin" Sep 01 07:43:11 tank-man: they're so much better than enhancements Sep 01 07:43:16 johnx: so a probability for suicide? Sep 01 07:43:37 * timeless_mbp wonders if there's an enchantment to get the right word to be automatically inserted in place of the wrong word Sep 01 07:43:45 sorry, misread that as s/die/kill/ Sep 01 07:44:06 timeless_mbp, sed Sep 01 07:44:37 c'mon, just try and tell me regular expressions aren't magic Sep 01 07:44:45 heh Sep 01 07:51:25 crashanddie, pong ... je suis au bureau et non chez moi :) Sep 01 07:52:30 stupid webchat captcha ... it s unreadable Sep 01 07:52:39 Morning all ! Sep 01 07:58:22 'night all :) Sep 01 07:59:00 Khertan_Work: better webchat is unusable, than whole IRC gets unusable due to bot attacks :-P Sep 01 08:00:06 gateway/web/freenode/ip MEH Sep 01 08:00:35 DocScrutinizer: hmm Sep 01 08:00:50 do personal cloaks overwrite the web gateway cloak? Sep 01 08:01:08 dunno Sep 01 08:01:26 kerio: yes Sep 01 08:01:33 kerio: but it's still displayed as part of the Real Name Sep 01 08:01:39 supposed to overwrite any generic user id / cloak Sep 01 08:01:45 just ban *!*@gateway/web/freenode then Sep 01 08:02:02 wtf, why? Sep 01 08:02:05 we already did, several times Sep 01 08:02:13 oh Sep 01 08:02:15 then ok Sep 01 08:02:20 \_o_/ Sep 01 08:02:47 why would you apply a wide ban like that? Sep 01 08:02:55 with capcha and join throttling we hope to be ok for a while Sep 01 08:02:57 kerio: /whois crashanddie_ Sep 01 08:03:41 DocScrutinizer: and midbits cannot be use too ... banned Sep 01 08:03:53 DocScrutinizer: and serveral webchat client has been banned too Sep 01 08:03:55 :( Sep 01 08:04:08 not specifically in this chan Sep 01 08:04:10 the mibbit admins were idiots Sep 01 08:04:19 DocScrutinizer: they've been glined from freenode Sep 01 08:04:19 DocScrutinizer: i need to reenter captcha often more than 5 times Sep 01 08:04:34 crashanddie: that's what I implied, yes Sep 01 08:04:34 the captcha use is really difficult to read Sep 01 08:04:51 freenode offered to work with them so that they would be able to provide an auth mechanism Sep 01 08:05:15 why not use a captcha more easy to read ? (for example like mine : http://khertan.net/khteditor:bugs Sep 01 08:05:16 ) Sep 01 08:05:24 mibbit was bitching about how they wanted to implement a specific way to do things, when freenode couldn't agree to that, as it would've given access to the outside world to the user database (duh) Sep 01 08:05:56 Khertan: because that's easily hackable Sep 01 08:06:11 Khertan: a simple OCR and parse it in PHP, and you've got the result Sep 01 08:06:11 crashanddie: mine isn't easily "hackable" Sep 01 08:06:25 crashanddie: try ... it ll take too time to ocr it Sep 01 08:06:44 hmm Sep 01 08:06:50 i can't distinguish between + and x Sep 01 08:06:52 so yeah Sep 01 08:06:53 fail Sep 01 08:07:15 kerio, you're a robot Sep 01 08:07:18 also recaptcha > other captchas Sep 01 08:07:53 kerio: link Sep 01 08:07:54 kerio: recaptcha is a pain to read on n900 Sep 01 08:07:56 Khertan_Work: link Sep 01 08:08:21 wow Sep 01 08:08:23 that's easy to ocr Sep 01 08:09:30 Khertan_Work: its pain to read anywhere Sep 01 08:10:50 Khertan_Work: I had 8 * 5, and an _ONLINE_ free OCR service recognised it as "g * 5"... I'd wager that a OCR lib that allows to specify we want digits and not characters would pwn your captcha fairly quickly Sep 01 08:11:55 Khertan_Work: plus, the biggest weakness of captchas is that if an attacker really wants to crack it, he just presents it on a porn website... "Want to watch Angelina Jolie blowing a huge cock? Solve this captcha first!" Sep 01 08:16:06 giben the ease IRC allows anonymous posts via the genuine API, I'd guess the webchat bots just do that because it's so much easier than implementing even a basic IRC protocol Sep 01 08:16:14 given* Sep 01 08:17:50 so probably little chances for sophisticated OCD implemented in such bot which usually comes as a rogue payload via HTML pages or something Sep 01 08:18:17 OCR* (/me needs onother coffee obviously) Sep 01 08:18:18 well Sep 01 08:18:36 IRC allows you to spam a hundred channels without even reading input Sep 01 08:18:40 crashanddie: what _ONLINE_ free OCR did you use ? Sep 01 08:18:41 you just dump a .txt to a socket Sep 01 08:18:53 Khertan_Work: dunno, just typed "ocr online" Sep 01 08:18:57 in google Sep 01 08:19:19 YMMV Sep 01 08:20:05 Sorry, we could not find any text in your image. Sep 01 08:20:06 lol Sep 01 08:20:32 hehe Sep 01 08:24:04 uh .... http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle-1.3/ <---- Sep 01 08:24:33 does there is an other api break planned ? Sep 01 08:24:43 Khertan_Work: Just a symlink. Sep 01 08:24:52 ah ok :) Sep 01 08:25:07 thx X-Fade ... Sep 01 08:25:13 Khertan_Work: No break is planned, but I wanted to be ready to at least be able to fix things if it might happen. Sep 01 08:25:40 X-Fade: at least a good idea to stay ready :) Sep 01 08:25:43 Don't want to be surprised again ;) Sep 01 08:25:52 ;-D Sep 01 08:26:21 héhé Sep 01 08:27:57 And change requests like that can't be done when the outcome can't be tested. So that is why the links are there. Sep 01 08:29:49 This may be labeled as very stupid: my wife has accidentally locked my N900 via Power Button -> Lock Device. As a consequence, I can't use it anymore. Can anybody point me to what should I read to get my system back? Sep 01 08:30:26 '12345' Sep 01 08:30:26 :P Sep 01 08:31:38 Stskeeps: It works now. Thanks. I thought it was '1234'. Sep 01 08:31:49 Khertan_Work: Sep 01 08:32:26 Which brings me to my next question. Assuming someone deliberately locked my phone, and has inputted a different code. How can I get the system back? I have a custom bootmenu that allows me SSH access to the phone via USB, by the way. Sep 01 08:32:59 crashanddie: no network Sep 01 08:33:13 Khertan_Work: well, yeah, but still :P Ugly error message Sep 01 08:33:47 How does this locking mechanism work? Sep 01 08:33:49 ebzzry: there are documented ways to unlock Sep 01 08:34:10 ebzzry: they would have to enter the correct lock code to lock the device Sep 01 08:34:19 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 Sep 01 08:34:35 no wait Sep 01 08:35:01 MNZ: not exactly, but they'd need the old lockcode to change it to a new unknown one aiui Sep 01 08:35:02 you don't enter any lock code to lock the device. but I suppose for someone to change your lock code they would have to enter the original anyway Sep 01 08:35:19 DocScrutinizer: Let me check that. Sep 01 08:35:19 exactly Sep 01 08:35:48 Khertan_Work: take a look at your page Sep 01 08:36:05 DocScrutinizer: Thanks. I want to try that. Sep 01 08:36:09 Khertan_Work: it took me less than 30 minutes to break that captcha with sufficient efficiency Sep 01 08:36:24 Khertan_Work: and write script that would spam your wiki Sep 01 08:40:43 jacekowski: lol :) nice Sep 01 08:41:01 * DocScrutinizer throws hAx0R medal at jacekowski :-P Sep 01 08:41:03 ocr ? or a failed ? Sep 01 08:41:06 ocr Sep 01 08:41:50 and i'm getting like 60% efficiency with just gocr Sep 01 08:41:58 with proper ocr i could get 99% Sep 01 08:44:15 MNZ: you can change code on unlocked device Sep 01 08:44:29 DocScrutinizer: code_reset Sep 01 08:44:32 DocScrutinizer: in repo Sep 01 08:45:05 must go on Sep 01 08:45:06 bye Sep 01 08:45:18 jacekowski: mhm Sep 01 08:45:30 he's going to have lot of fun deleting that spam on his wiki Sep 01 08:45:34 hmm, nope Sep 01 08:45:36 it's gone Sep 01 08:46:10 i could be a dick and leave that spamming script running Sep 01 08:46:24 multiple copies of it Sep 01 08:46:24 and then I could be a dick and ban you from #maemo forever Sep 01 08:46:34 could be? Sep 01 08:46:34 :P Sep 01 08:46:38 * Stskeeps hides Sep 01 08:46:41 well, we both are Sep 01 08:50:14 muhaha, it needs john to make me aware I changed my lockcode, and even worse to something I for sure never ever had recalled Sep 01 08:51:04 * DocScrutinizer <- :oD Sep 01 08:52:10 Morning, all Sep 01 08:52:32 guesses: 1 time: 0:00:00:01 Sep 01 08:52:36 moo Jaffa Sep 01 08:55:08 FSCK something completely messed up my device, no idea what it was Sep 01 08:55:16 ghosts Sep 01 08:55:27 DocScrutinizer: jrbme ;) Sep 01 08:55:31 settings closing after 10s of loading activity rotary dial Sep 01 08:55:39 Doc: What is your email? Sep 01 08:55:53 Stskeeps: there's no jrbme running on that device Sep 01 08:55:59 DocScrutinizer: Electron migration ;) Sep 01 08:57:03 Doc: And what is Paul Feltser's IRC nick? Sep 01 08:57:32 I rebooted 3 times last 3 days, due to all sorts of weird issues, like call-ui freezes, stalled/failed sshd, whatnot Sep 01 08:58:15 DocScrutinizer: No, messages in dmesg? Sep 01 08:58:51 nothing interesting yet, last time I checked Sep 01 08:58:57 mompls Sep 01 09:01:11 neither now, except myriads of [94278.447662] wlan0: deauthenticated [94279.717803] wlan0: authenticate with AP 00:13:49:e0:de:dc [94279.721069] wlan0: authenticated [94279.721099] wlan0: associate with AP 00:13:49:e0:de:dc [94279.723968] wlan0: RX AssocResp from 00:13:49:e0:de:dc (capab=0x411 status=0 aid=2) [94279.724029] wlan0: associated Sep 01 09:02:17 Doc: I emailed Quim. CCed to you. Sep 01 09:02:36 RST38h: great! many thanks Sep 01 09:11:36 RST38h: maybe you'd better take another one/few devel dev *to* Moscow, rather than exporting the one device *from* Russia ;-D Sep 01 09:12:34 RST38h: alas I'm rather sure we'll not make that happen, in the time remaining until you return home from USA Sep 01 09:18:28 X-Fade: I'm not overclocking :-D, so hoping for petrovic malfunction locking CPU @ 600 for one day hasn't actually caused any damage. Anyway I'm really puzzled what might have triggered this general misbehaviour, last 'nasty' thing I did (and remember) was a `swapon /dev/mmcblk1p3; swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3` and reverse after some minutes, plus a boot some times later. Sep 01 09:19:19 Doc: Well, I can't carry them in bunches, as this may pose problems at the customs Sep 01 09:19:26 Doc: I can probably take one or two though Sep 01 09:19:34 thing that puzzles me most is: device won't start on power button after shutdown, unless battery removed for a few seconds Sep 01 09:20:03 Doc: Hold the power button for ~5sec, see if it starts Sep 01 09:20:03 DocScrutinizer: It takes several seconds to really shutdown after display off. Sep 01 09:20:26 yepyep, considered and did all this Sep 01 09:20:31 That too Sep 01 09:27:27 it could also be that the shutdown is taking too long for some reason Sep 01 09:30:14 kerio: nope, I gave shutdown time like 5min to complete, when device was assumed shutdown but didn't poweron. Then I inserted charger and immediately NOLO came up, so it's been definitely off Sep 01 09:34:17 last reboot was like 18h ago, due to sshd or wlan borked. Did virtually nothing with the device since then, except a few ls and cat etc over ssh, and now settings app fails to completely startup, closing window after ~10s Sep 01 09:34:57 well, in technical terms Sep 01 09:35:00 it's buggered Sep 01 09:35:28 nota bene this is my daily use phone, which never seen any usb hostmode or other heavy hackery Sep 01 09:35:53 reflash Sep 01 09:35:59 see if it goes away Sep 01 09:36:00 hmmm :-S Sep 01 09:36:10 prolly only thing to do about it, yes Sep 01 09:38:02 I might want to walk thru the list of installed apps and kick out several of those, prior to a full reflash though Sep 01 09:38:28 would something made in pygame for n900 run directly on n8xx? Sep 01 09:38:43 It should, I think. Sep 01 09:42:59 anybody an idea what's the cmdline invocation of settings? Sep 01 09:43:44 hildon-control-panel? Sep 01 09:43:45 :P Sep 01 09:43:54 thnx Sep 01 09:44:53 i don't think so Sep 01 09:45:00 and you have to launch it with a launcher Sep 01 09:45:04 yeah, except there's no such thing Sep 01 09:45:08 otherwise it segfaults Sep 01 09:45:58 /usr/bin/controlpanel Sep 01 09:46:10 but that's a symlink to launcher Sep 01 09:46:15 real control panel app is in Sep 01 09:46:18 /usr/bin/controlpanel.launch Sep 01 09:46:32 jacekowski: thanks Sep 01 09:53:01 wait, isn't there some funny cheating in hildon, to show a 'screenshot' of the app while cranking up real process in background? Sep 01 09:54:08 sure Sep 01 09:54:46 yes Sep 01 09:55:14 most noticeable (on my device at least) on the clock/alarms app Sep 01 09:55:55 anyway, while starting settings via hildon appstarter gives me a screen looking like settings, with a busy rotary dial in the topbar and closing after ~10s, starting /usr/bin/controlpanel never terminates or has any visible effect, while starting /usr/bin/controlpanel.launch segfaults immediately Sep 01 09:56:39 DocScrutinizer: Installed any control panel plugins? Sep 01 09:56:46 a few Sep 01 09:57:14 I'd uninstall those. Sep 01 09:57:44 mhm, though it seems to me all of those worked for months Sep 01 09:58:01 Well, your CP did too ;) Sep 01 09:58:06 is it purely the settings screen that doesnt open? Sep 01 09:58:30 location test same thing Sep 01 09:59:15 /usr/bin/controlpanel.launch is SUPPOSED to segfault, so that's normal Sep 01 09:59:16 media player same thing Sep 01 09:59:31 Bargain. Just got a room for Nokia World *right* at the ExCeL Centre for 53 quid :) Sep 01 10:00:09 xterm same thing Sep 01 10:00:15 I can't start any app Sep 01 10:00:57 basically, of course dialer works, browser works - all those that are preloaded seem to work. No surprise Sep 01 10:01:01 Jaffa: how many rats will you be living with? :P Sep 01 10:03:00 Stskeeps: It's an Ibis, so should be OK Sep 01 10:03:28 otoh uptime 8 days W*T*F???? I'm absolutely sure I rebooted after battery removal yesterday Sep 01 10:03:55 DocScrutinizer: Clock messed up? Sep 01 10:04:24 if you can see uptime with xterm not working, im guessing sshd works? Sep 01 10:04:33 dunno - powered down, now removing battery, just in case and to be sure :-P Sep 01 10:05:36 tbh though, even these slowdowns people get after "long" uptimes always suggest something a bit fubar to me Sep 01 10:05:50 my device is at 9 days so far, and exactly as fast as when i turned it on Sep 01 10:05:59 well, 60s probably will sufice to even reset RTC, due to usually borked backup cell Sep 01 10:06:45 nid0: (ssh) yep, exactly Sep 01 10:08:03 meh, please enter lang, date, time, region Sep 01 10:08:34 60s were enough, though time/date still correct Sep 01 10:10:06 \o/ settings, the real one Sep 01 10:11:27 oh, meh - forget half of what I said above, not my day :-( Sep 01 10:11:49 ssh win on laptop was the wrong one :-P Sep 01 10:12:19 (the one to devel N900, not to the everyday clean phone) Sep 01 10:12:35 :blush: Sep 01 10:12:54 doh. Sep 01 10:13:16 DocScrutinizer: PS1 MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT Sep 01 10:13:30 hmph Sep 01 10:13:52 echo IroN900 >/etc/hostname did it :-P Sep 01 10:14:02 IroN900:~# Sep 01 10:14:29 vs Sep 01 10:14:32 Nokia-N900-02-8:~# Sep 01 10:14:34 DocScrutinizer: also vi /etc/hosts Sep 01 10:14:37 *now* Sep 01 10:15:06 kerio: doesn't help, as both shells usually open 24/7 Sep 01 10:15:13 no, i mean Sep 01 10:15:19 you need to add IroN900 to /etc/hostts Sep 01 10:15:20 *hosts Sep 01 10:15:26 aah Sep 01 10:15:26 set it to 127.0.0.1 Sep 01 10:15:53 why would I need to do that? Sep 01 10:15:58 not sure why Sep 01 10:15:58 b Sep 01 10:16:15 but any "how to change a unix hostname" always told to change /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts Sep 01 10:16:52 kerio: without /etc/hosts part it will not resolve right, that's why Sep 01 10:16:59 changing /etc/hosts will just allow the device to resolve iron900 to localhost, there shouldnt be any need atall for it on the n900 though Sep 01 10:17:07 still Sep 01 10:18:03 well, there's "127.0.0.1 Nokia-N900-42-11 localhost" in there, so I guess you got a point Sep 01 10:22:05 42! Sep 01 10:22:07 it's a sign! Sep 01 10:27:49 anyway, thanks to my blindness I lost the dmesg, and of course now after boot everything back to normal - guess I need to wait another 24h. Suspect it's related to WLAN and my router disconnecting from internet for 60s every 24h. Seen other machines stall on that, even to the point of kernel OOPS Sep 01 10:29:30 is it possible to dualboot maemo with meego? Sep 01 10:29:33 Up for an upgrade now. All the devices look cwap .. Sep 01 10:29:57 defragger: afaik yes Sep 01 10:30:00 DocScrutinizer: netgear router dropping lan connections? Sep 01 10:30:14 DocScrutinizer: do you know any useable howto for that? Sep 01 10:30:23 frals, nspeed is on extras Sep 01 10:30:34 ZyXEL router forcing disconnect before provider does Sep 01 10:30:35 Ooo, I can upgrade with car phone warehouse even though I got my contract direct from Vodafone .. Sep 01 10:30:54 yeah you get to do that, thats what i did to get my n900 Sep 01 10:31:08 o2 didnt offer it, just upgraded my contract with them through cpw instead Sep 01 10:31:21 defragger: sorry, no idea. seems you need to RTFM of meego for it Sep 01 10:32:56 * DocScrutinizer wonders if /etc/hosts might be involved in that problem Sep 01 10:33:49 something ARP/rDNS or whatever DHCP related... Sep 01 10:34:10 Anyone got any recommendations for a handset? Sep 01 10:34:22 I was trhinking of getting a symbian device so I can do parallel development . Sep 01 10:35:32 I could just get the most expensive one and sell it ^.^ Sep 01 10:35:44 I'm not going to move away from my N900 for some time. Sep 01 10:37:08 Or I could get another N900 .. Sep 01 10:37:21 i've been considering that Sep 01 10:37:27 as it gets irritating to shut off my phone for work.. Sep 01 10:37:38 alterego: there are some nice closed stereo BT headsets with goodies like electronic ambient noise reduction Sep 01 10:37:43 I'd like it for MeeGo development. Sep 01 10:38:03 DocScrutinizer: headsets? I'm talking about handsets :P Sep 01 10:38:17 oops, see? Not my day Sep 01 10:38:23 :D Sep 01 10:38:31 gonna shut up for a few hours :-S Sep 01 10:39:02 What are the latest Symbian devices like? N97 Min, x3 X6? Sep 01 10:39:25 Or maybe I should get an Android, to look at the competition ^.^ Sep 01 10:39:27 alterego: how's about N8? Sep 01 10:39:39 Yeah, I could wait for the N8 Sep 01 10:40:39 Not sure how I'll react to not having a keypad though .. Sep 01 10:40:44 I don't think I'll like it. Sep 01 10:40:53 hehe Sep 01 10:41:59 Though, it would be good for development, as a lot of people seem to like having touch only input. Sep 01 10:42:16 I could make sure my UXs are touch-only friendly. Sep 01 10:44:18 you could make sure your UX bits user's finger :-D Sep 01 10:44:27 i bought a bluetooth stereo headset ^_^ Sep 01 10:44:39 it's cute, with a clip that holds a mic and the media keys Sep 01 10:48:10 tbh, directly getting a new n900 would be silly Sep 01 10:49:04 out of cpw's list i'd just get the most overpriced phone available (iphone ofc) sell it for £500, then if you want another n900, buy one for £350 and pocket the difference \o/ Sep 01 10:50:05 nid was thinking that too ;) Sep 01 10:52:09 Holy crap, 27.3GB of data last month .. Sep 01 10:52:23 on your mobile? Sep 01 10:52:27 Yeah Sep 01 10:52:27 alterego: Wuuut Sep 01 10:52:37 how on earth'd you manage thaty Sep 01 10:52:44 Probably BBC iPlayer Sep 01 10:53:06 what i meant more was: how on earth'd you manage that without getting cut off / charged a fortune :p Sep 01 10:53:21 My contract is for unlimited data usage. Sep 01 10:53:28 with a fup of like 500mb Sep 01 10:53:46 I'm not in a built up area? :) Sep 01 10:53:54 Though I doubt they'd care. Sep 01 10:54:02 I've been averaging 5-10G a month for the past year .. Sep 01 10:54:13 i had to use my n900 to tether recently as i just moved and had no adsl for a week and a half Sep 01 10:54:28 racked up 5gb in that time and had a text from o2 telling me to ease up or face bills Sep 01 10:54:36 nid0: exactly what I'm doing, but I've not bothered getting boradband because the 3G is fast enough for me .. Sep 01 10:56:46 Looks like the HTC Touch HD 2 is the most expensive at the moment .. Sep 01 10:57:03 Not sure I can bring myself to getting a winmo though ^.^ Sep 01 10:57:05 theoretically, but its a hard phone to sell Sep 01 10:57:20 not many people will want to be ebaying a winmo device, even if the hd2 is damn good Sep 01 10:57:28 Yeah Sep 01 10:58:03 Also consider that eaying phones is not without rish Sep 01 10:58:04 k Sep 01 10:58:11 indeed Sep 01 10:58:17 well, just make sure not to send them to the buyer's granny in nigeria Sep 01 10:58:26 Heh Sep 01 10:58:36 I'll say UK only Sep 01 10:58:44 I've never actually sold anything on ebay .. Sep 01 10:58:48 UK only, >1fb at least. Sep 01 10:58:59 Also - gert a tracking number when you send it. Sep 01 10:59:21 yer make sure to insist itll be sent tracked + insured only Sep 01 10:59:30 otherwise the buyer "wont receive it" Sep 01 10:59:58 nid0: (o2) germany? Sep 01 11:00:02 o2 uk Sep 01 11:00:06 aah Sep 01 11:00:55 Yeah Sep 01 11:02:28 Thanks for the advice, I think I'll hold off for a while and see what comes out over the next couple3 of months Sep 01 11:05:23 kinda a shame cpw only have the streak on o2 Sep 01 11:07:17 LOL Sep 01 11:07:22 IroN900:~# echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): Sep 01 11:07:23 root:12345: Sep 01 11:09:00 let's see what it gets us replacing lockcode 12345 with 12345 :-P Sep 01 11:10:23 IroN900:~# echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): Sep 01 11:10:25 root:OybLWsCckad.E: Sep 01 11:10:27 X-P Sep 01 11:11:12 nice DocScrutinizer Sep 01 11:12:00 DocScrutinizer: Nice, you nicely messed up your cal area ;) Sep 01 11:12:12 argh f this Sep 01 11:12:27 not me, settings lockcode did - haha Sep 01 11:12:29 crashanddie, ty, but it didn't help Sep 01 11:12:37 damn Sep 01 11:12:42 MohammadAG51: errors? Sep 01 11:12:50 none Sep 01 11:13:04 coversations crashes Sep 01 11:14:30 hmm, i can't get i2c to work on my beagle board Sep 01 11:15:02 X-Fade: john the riper still thinks it's 12345, in zero time :-) Sep 01 11:15:10 ripper even Sep 01 11:16:58 DocScrutinizer: Ah, so it gets delivered factory default in plain text. And gets encrypted when you set it. Sep 01 11:17:15 yep, exactly Sep 01 11:19:20 argh Sep 01 11:19:30 are there any logs for rtcom crap? Sep 01 11:21:16 MohammadAG51: Isn't it browserd crashing? Sep 01 11:21:34 the conversations app isn't browserd afaik Sep 01 11:21:38 MohammadAG51: It is. Sep 01 11:21:47 even the main ui? Sep 01 11:21:50 which i doubt Sep 01 11:21:52 MohammadAG51: It is a javasript gui. Sep 01 11:22:04 those are the logs Sep 01 11:22:13 * MohammadAG51 pokes timeless Sep 01 11:22:23 Ah, the main view. Don't know about that. Sep 01 11:22:47 Well open it and kill browserd ;) Sep 01 11:22:50 starting it from terminal does nothing Sep 01 11:50:46 * DocScrutinizer pokes MohammadAG51 Sep 01 11:56:14 WAAAAH Sep 01 11:56:48 * MohammadAG51 pokes DocScrutinizer Sep 01 11:56:53 800+ processes dbus-scripts Sep 01 11:57:13 IroN900:~# ps ax|grep dbus-scripts|less Sep 01 11:57:14 -sh: cannot fork Sep 01 11:57:16 IroN900:~# Connection to 192.168.1.30 closed. Sep 01 11:57:33 o_O Sep 01 11:57:37 any questions, sherlock? Sep 01 11:57:50 * MohammadAG51 pokes timeless_mbp Sep 01 11:57:57 DocScrutinizer, reboot? Sep 01 11:58:03 oh wait, that's a suggestion Sep 01 11:58:10 haha, see backscroll Sep 01 11:59:02 jr@halley:~> ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -l root 192.168.1.30; date Sep 01 11:59:03 ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host Sep 01 11:59:46 dbus-scripting went apeshit, it seems Sep 01 12:00:14 no wonder I find all kinds of nasty problems, like not a single app starting Sep 01 12:00:42 yes? Sep 01 12:01:33 yup, confirmed. Same problem as before Sep 01 12:02:04 timeless_mbp, is the main coversations UI related to browserd? Sep 01 12:02:15 the one with new IM/new SMS Sep 01 12:02:52 ~lart dbus-scripting Sep 01 12:02:52 * infobot drops a humongous exploding nuke on dbus-scripting Sep 01 12:02:57 i don't think so Sep 01 12:03:07 i think it's only the view w/ the actual chats Sep 01 12:05:56 timeless_mbp, do you know if there's a way to log the conversations app's startup? Sep 01 12:08:46 Hmm N900 for PS3 jailbreaking. That is about the last thing I would have thought about :) http://kakaroto.homelinux.net/2010/08/psjailbreak-usb-gadget-kernel-driver/ Sep 01 12:08:51 dunno Sep 01 12:09:08 you can enable syslog and you can change how an app starts so it gets glog ing Sep 01 12:09:26 DocScrutinizer51: It seeems that ^^^ guy is working on usb host too? Sep 01 12:09:41 does anybody tries meego with multiboot already? Sep 01 12:13:01 X-Fade, different crap :P Sep 01 12:13:17 the psgroove jailbreak requires the N900 to look like a hub Sep 01 12:13:28 it won't be an actual hub Sep 01 12:13:29 hey guys Sep 01 12:13:39 MohammadAG51, still related Sep 01 12:13:56 X-Fade, constantly amazed at how maemo is (ab)used! Sep 01 12:14:16 hey Venemo Sep 01 12:15:14 X-Fade: I don't get it. What is he trying to do? Hub? Sep 01 12:15:44 lcuk, only slightly Sep 01 12:15:54 though he might be helpful Sep 01 12:17:14 X-Fade: >>My idea was to use an existing programmable linux-based device (my N900) to act as the dongle.<< Sep 01 12:17:39 X-Fade: so not exactly host mode related it seems to me Sep 01 12:18:10 DocScrutinizer: No idea, only the presentation part of it I guess. Sep 01 12:18:35 X-Fade: sorry, please rephrase Sep 01 12:18:53 DocScrutinizer: Looking like an usb hub part. Sep 01 12:21:30 I don't get it, sorry. He talks about USB hub, which in my book is a hardware consisting of several downstream ports (which arguably resemble a USB host) plus one upstream port. But in his first few sentences he explains he wants to implement a RE'd dongle, by using his N900 in gadget mode Sep 01 12:22:08 someone know if its possible to save trip/gps data with ovi maps? just drive a route and later look back what route you drove? Sep 01 12:27:13 hi guys Sep 01 12:28:19 is there an app for nokia n900 tha wil allow the n900 to b controlled via internet,and not the other way around like teamveiwer,cos i am planning on giving it a try.so does an app exist Sep 01 12:28:58 x11vnc Sep 01 12:29:20 bince_NGT_TECH, you mean like vnc? http://maemo.org/packages/view/x11vnc/ Sep 01 12:29:47 lcuk:lemme c :D Sep 01 12:30:52 what's wrong with ssh? Sep 01 12:30:53 :| Sep 01 12:30:54 lcuk:i mean an app that will allow acces to n900's camera,sending messages like that remotly via pc,so does that app does that :D Sep 01 12:31:16 lcuk:cos i donno ,havent tried that app thats y Sep 01 12:32:13 DocScrutinizer: the dongle he's trying to fake is faking an usb hub... Sep 01 12:33:06 and no, there's no host mode in that Sep 01 12:33:14 bince_NGT_TECH, x11vnc lets you use the mouse (touchscreen) and keyboard on the N900 Sep 01 12:33:38 yo dawg i heard u like peripherals so we put usb in yo usb so you can emulate while you provide Sep 01 12:33:48 lame :P **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 01 12:36:30 2010 Sep 01 12:36:44 video,happy :D Sep 01 12:40:45 X-Fade: nice find, and a cute project this guy is starting there, but alas not related to hostmode at all Sep 01 12:52:03 GAN900: ping Sep 01 12:53:51 raster: o/ Sep 01 12:56:42 DocScrutinizer: docz! Sep 01 12:57:27 raster: what's new? Sep 01 13:19:46 do we have any exact specs for the N900's speakers? Specifically a certain range of frequencies that it can handle. Sep 01 13:19:48 SpeedEvil, Sep 01 13:22:57 MNZ: alas not Sep 01 13:23:45 crashanddie, there? Sep 01 13:23:51 aye Sep 01 13:23:51 to be precise, this is about all we might get to know exactly about those: Impecance, dimensions Sep 01 13:26:26 I've been doing a whole bunch of reading and I think I can get this IIR thing down to use it as an EQ. But the de-emphasis filter as a highpass filter for the speakers doesn't look promising, for several reasons Sep 01 13:26:50 MNZ: :-/ Sep 01 13:27:01 for deemphasis Sep 01 13:27:10 :-D for general EQ Sep 01 13:27:15 For one, we don't really know how low a frequency it can handle. I guess I could stay on the safe side and just remove way too much Sep 01 13:27:36 for another thing, it will be VERY tricky to distribute this once/if it can be done Sep 01 13:27:53 an educated guess would be: cut -6dBm at 150Hz Sep 01 13:28:34 noted. I'm just really scared with messing it up and blowing the speakers :S Sep 01 13:29:19 tbh the speakers would have to be spectactularly shit to blow particularly quickly and at low powers, you should just be able to adjust where to filter via trial and error Sep 01 13:29:28 MNZ: 3rd thing: the Nokia PA speaker protection magic most probably includes some more beyond mere highpass. Seems they also do dynamic-limiting/compression Sep 01 13:30:01 It would be interesting to get a more or less broken N900 just to mess with the speaker. Sep 01 13:30:38 DocScrutinizer, ah, but AFAIK (so far) the de-emphasis filter will not be able to do something like that. If only we had the PA module sources Sep 01 13:30:45 MNZ: try to mirror the nokia PA filter Sep 01 13:30:46 nid0: still there's been reports Nokia found serious speaker busts on pre-MP devices, and rumour has it this was one of the reasons for rollout delay Sep 01 13:31:58 or just... screw the speakers Sep 01 13:32:02 limit the volume Sep 01 13:32:11 and add a warning Sep 01 13:32:11 ask jacekowski to RE it Sep 01 13:32:17 jacekowski: RE it Sep 01 13:32:22 pls Sep 01 13:33:26 also, about the distribution/packaging. This would be hell to package. Basically we'd need a package to override PA's policy files (I think) and depend on a certain kernel with the necessary driver patches for de-emp to kick in for speaker Sep 01 13:33:37 now just imagine anyone flashing a new kernel Sep 01 13:33:58 yep Sep 01 13:33:58 how do you solve that :S ? Sep 01 13:34:11 I guess nokia had their reasons to do it this way.... Sep 01 13:34:16 MNZ: provide modules that depend on a particular version of the kernel Sep 01 13:34:24 and the policy overrider that depends on the module Sep 01 13:34:26 tbh I doubt that detail Sep 01 13:34:36 so, change kernel, module is removed, override is removed Sep 01 13:34:44 kerio, flashing a new kernel overrides the entire package system! Sep 01 13:34:47 apt <3 Sep 01 13:34:50 dependencies are a moot point Sep 01 13:34:51 oh, flashing Sep 01 13:35:18 "when flashing, reinstall the module or $BAD_STUFF will happen to your speakers" Sep 01 13:35:20 there Sep 01 13:35:28 it's GPL software after all Sep 01 13:35:36 no warranty, no fitness for a particular purpose Sep 01 13:35:39 kerio: ? Sep 01 13:36:09 jacekowski: reverse-engineer the nokia PA speaker protection Sep 01 13:36:18 so MNZ can do the sensible thing and implement it with the hardware equalizer Sep 01 13:36:24 MNZ: ask titan how he does that for power kernel Sep 01 13:36:46 DocScrutinizer, is there a similar situation with the power kernel? Sep 01 13:36:51 yep Sep 01 13:37:08 hotspot relies / depends on powerkernel Sep 01 13:37:30 how do you know that there is a protection there? Sep 01 13:37:37 and what do youknow about it Sep 01 13:37:43 just because we know Sep 01 13:37:43 for example which file is it and stuff Sep 01 13:38:04 DocScrutinizer, link jacekowski to the pdf by the nokia sound dude Sep 01 13:38:07 we know it does highpass and dynamic compression / limiting Sep 01 13:38:18 do we know which module is it? Sep 01 13:38:28 umm PA-nokia? Sep 01 13:38:34 MNZ: ?? Sep 01 13:38:43 that's too obvious Sep 01 13:38:50 DocScrutinizer, Jyri-Sarha-audio-miniconf_slides.pdf Sep 01 13:38:53 jacekowski: think you already know that audio paper Sep 01 13:39:00 yepyep Sep 01 13:39:04 this one Sep 01 13:39:22 Jyri Sarha sucks Sep 01 13:39:24 :< Sep 01 13:39:30 MNZ: thought you know exactly what's the PA module name / file name of the binary Sep 01 13:39:31 that's not a whitepaper Sep 01 13:39:35 these are just slides Sep 01 13:39:39 useless to be honest Sep 01 13:39:51 jacekowski: ack Sep 01 13:39:55 DocScrutinizer, I have a vague idea.... Sep 01 13:40:19 * DocScrutinizer sighs Sep 01 13:40:20 if the slides are to be trusted, then actually the processing doesn't happen in the pa modules Sep 01 13:40:33 ... and switches to IroN900 console Sep 01 13:41:02 MNZ: slides are not to be trusted Sep 01 13:41:07 hmm Sep 01 13:41:08 that Sep 01 13:41:08 /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-alsa-sink.so Sep 01 13:41:09 they need to be done in the block labeled 'Transducer Processing' on page 15/16 Sep 01 13:41:10 or Sep 01 13:41:29 hmm, that's all Sep 01 13:41:31 really Sep 01 13:41:50 there is nothing else loaded Sep 01 13:42:01 jacekowski, play some music Sep 01 13:42:06 nvm Sep 01 13:42:11 /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/libnokia-common.so Sep 01 13:42:14 /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-nokia-voice.so Sep 01 13:42:18 /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-nokia-music.so Sep 01 13:42:38 yes we already know about those, try apt-cache search pulseaudio-module-nokia Sep 01 13:42:57 there's record, music, voice, and common AFAIR Sep 01 13:44:10 usr/sbin/alsaped -p 4 -f /usr/share/policy/etc/current/alsaped || usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority || usr/bin/mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-renderer Sep 01 13:45:00 * luke-jr mutters at MobileHotSpot not quite working Sep 01 13:47:11 well, pactl has some hints Sep 01 13:48:56 pulseaudio --dump-modules -> module-nokia-music Nokia music module module-nokia-record Nokia record module module-nokia-voice Nokia voice module Sep 01 13:49:38 sink.music -> sink.voice.raw -> sink.hw0 Sep 01 13:49:49 everything else too dumps into sink.voice.raw Sep 01 13:50:10 pactl ?? o.O Sep 01 13:50:16 sink.voice.raw = Driver: voice-raw-sink.c Sep 01 13:50:20 DocScrutinizer, yeah Sep 01 13:50:26 not found Sep 01 13:50:42 apt-get install pulseaudio-utils Sep 01 13:50:47 meh Sep 01 13:50:53 thnx Sep 01 13:51:42 thought "darn, something missing here". 'clean' system ;-P Sep 01 13:52:17 heh Sep 01 13:55:50 So the magic is either in voice-raw-sink.c or module-alsa-sink-old.c Sep 01 13:56:24 if life gets boring: pactl list Sep 01 13:56:44 it's what I'm already doing Sep 01 13:57:36 btw this pretty much explains what all that policy enforcer config stuff is all about Sep 01 13:57:42 yup Sep 01 13:58:30 /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-nokia-voice.so: voice-raw-sink.c Sep 01 13:58:43 what is your goal MNZ? Sep 01 13:58:46 anyway meamonians, I got a RL too, believe it or not ;-P Sep 01 13:59:03 o/ Sep 01 13:59:09 DocScrutinizer, good bye Sep 01 13:59:29 pupnik, I'm trying to find out where PA does it's highpass and/or dynamic compression Sep 01 13:59:53 jacekowski, what information do you need if you were to attempt this? Sep 01 14:00:23 cool man, i am curious to learn Sep 01 14:00:38 well, what do we want to know Sep 01 14:00:41 that's a question Sep 01 14:01:31 what pulseaudio is doing to the audio output before it goes to the speaker. We know it applies a highpass filter, and DocScrutinizer says it probably does dynamic compression too Sep 01 14:01:48 I just need more concrete information (numbers would be nice too!) Sep 01 14:02:49 well, ok Sep 01 14:02:59 we have sources of module-alsa-sink Sep 01 14:03:06 * mutoga ♪ Au café du canal (VOF..Peter p Père hé!! ♪ /!\ Sep 01 14:03:09 and other modules Sep 01 14:03:10 o Sep 01 14:03:21 and we know that it's not in open source modules Sep 01 14:03:24 so far my best guess is since everything goes through voice-raw-sink.c it's a good chance something is happening there, though the name is quite weird Sep 01 14:03:38 MNZ: isn't that open source/ Sep 01 14:03:51 hmm Sep 01 14:03:52 no, that's module-nokia-voice.so Sep 01 14:04:05 so interesting modules would be Sep 01 14:04:06 module-alsa-sink-volume ALSA Mixer Control from Nokia Sep 01 14:04:13 module-alsa-sink-old ALSA Sink (modified by Nokia) Sep 01 14:04:13 module-alsa-sink ALSA Sink Sep 01 14:04:45 module-nokia-voice Nokia voice module Sep 01 14:04:51 and possibly Sep 01 14:04:51 module-nokia-music Nokia music module Sep 01 14:06:24 I think they would have a central control point that switches on the filtering when output is going through the speaker Sep 01 14:06:32 that would be the alsa sinks or the voice module Sep 01 14:06:58 ps (as I'm not really here anymore): just playback music *loaud*, fire up htop and spot the process that eats all the CPU - then you probably found the right one. then see what file the program text is in Sep 01 14:08:08 ermm mafw-gst-renderer..... hrmm so it could be outside PA? Sep 01 14:08:55 could be Sep 01 14:08:59 Hi. Is there an easy way to restore/delete the gtkrc for n900? Sep 01 14:09:21 removing the gtkrc from /usr/share/themes/ and reinstalling the theme doesnt work for me Sep 01 14:09:28 all the gtk apps look b0rked Sep 01 14:09:31 896 pulse -6 -11 82036 4440 3136 S 24.0 1.8 0:15.41 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority Sep 01 14:09:45 26% CPU Sep 01 14:10:10 DocScrutinizer: so... pulseaudio is responsible for the pulseaudio CPU hog? Sep 01 14:10:15 I CAN'T BELIEVE IT Sep 01 14:10:26 haha, incredible, isn't it? Sep 01 14:10:47 hwoarang: reflash? Sep 01 14:10:48 actually on my system, 1199 666 user S < 6768 2.7 13.4 /usr/bin/mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-renderer Sep 01 14:10:55 ~flashing Sep 01 14:10:55 it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 01 14:11:18 kerio: so please take over now, and tell those dudes here which files the process 896 on my system has opened :-P Sep 01 14:11:26 you do it Sep 01 14:11:31 (lsof?) Sep 01 14:11:52 PA is at about 8-10% while mafw-gst-renderer is at 15-17% cpu time Sep 01 14:12:04 kerio: I'm too busy answering your helful comments :-P Sep 01 14:12:13 oh, sorry Sep 01 14:12:24 MNZ: then you need to play LOUDER XP Sep 01 14:12:34 alterego: ping Sep 01 14:12:38 dammit. sorry, headphones on XD XD Sep 01 14:12:38 WE LIKE IT LOUD! Sep 01 14:12:42 ~seen alterego Sep 01 14:12:46 MNZ: you.. fail Sep 01 14:12:48 alterego is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 35 messages. Is idling for 3h 10m 18s, last said: 'Thanks for the advice, I think I'll hold off for a while and see what comes out over the next couple3 of months'. Sep 01 14:12:56 ok now PA wins hands dow Sep 01 14:12:58 down* Sep 01 14:12:59 so if i would have native alsa app Sep 01 14:13:07 that doesn't go trough PA Sep 01 14:13:10 i could melt speakers Sep 01 14:13:13 yep Sep 01 14:13:13 yes Sep 01 14:13:26 or even easier, just change a few lines in the policy files Sep 01 14:13:57 jacekowski: another addition for n900nuke Sep 01 14:13:57 :D Sep 01 14:14:11 re-o/ Sep 01 14:15:16 DocScrutinizer: o7 Sep 01 14:15:20 I think if we profile the PA process the function that's doing the magic will stand out quite clearly Sep 01 14:15:40 Venemo: really?reflash just to fix the gtkrc? Sep 01 14:15:43 like you can profile stripped process Sep 01 14:16:00 at least we'll know what module! Sep 01 14:16:20 (right?) Sep 01 14:16:23 no Sep 01 14:16:35 maybe Sep 01 14:16:43 but there is no software to profile it anyways Sep 01 14:16:43 they are dynamically loaded so Sep 01 14:16:48 where is the default/preinstalled(?) gtkrc file located in n900? Sep 01 14:16:53 there has to be some symbol info Sep 01 14:19:15 hwoarang, /usr/share/themes/alpha Sep 01 14:19:35 that is, /usr/share/themes/alpha/gtk-2.0/gtkrc Sep 01 14:20:08 MNZ: so what is /etc/hildon/theme/gtk-2.0/gtkrc for Sep 01 14:20:38 hwoarang, lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Aug 28 17:03 /etc/hildon/theme -> /usr/share/themes/default Sep 01 14:20:52 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 Aug 28 16:59 /usr/share/themes/default -> /usr/share/themes/alpha Sep 01 14:21:46 so this .gtkrc is the only config file that n900 uses for gtk apps? Sep 01 14:22:40 unless you switch themes I guess, at which point the /usr/share/themes/default link will point to another theme Sep 01 14:23:04 though I'm not sure Sep 01 14:23:18 default points to -> alpha Sep 01 14:23:32 * crashanddie has gitorious running locally, w00t Sep 01 14:23:34 be hildon/themes -> Blue-sky and I use blue sky. Sep 01 14:23:39 *but Sep 01 14:24:14 MNZ: should default point to the theme I am actually using atm? Sep 01 14:24:36 hwoarang, frankly IDK. try to make it point to the current theme and see what happens :D Sep 01 14:24:38 Whats the proper way to restart hildon-status-menu? there isn't a script in /etc/init.d Sep 01 14:25:44 MNZ: will do Sep 01 14:25:51 what a mess Sep 01 14:28:54 hello everyone Sep 01 14:29:01 wazd_n900: hi Sep 01 14:29:13 lo wazd_n900 Sep 01 14:38:01 anyways Sep 01 14:38:08 anybody can recommend any decent pdf about PA Sep 01 14:40:55 jacekowski: PA=? Sep 01 14:41:16 pulseaudio Sep 01 14:46:15 limiter_write_parameters in /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/module-nokia-music.so Sep 01 14:47:24 I'm resurrecting my Diablo N800 but the repositories are messed up. Is maemo.org the only way to get legacy SW now or is there a known working site to refresh the repository links? Sep 01 14:48:56 DocScrutinizer: biggest module Sep 01 14:48:57 300k Sep 01 14:49:03 EAP_WfirFiveBandsInt32_Process Sep 01 14:49:31 oO? Sep 01 14:49:41 what EAP has to do with sound Sep 01 14:50:14 whatever EAP is at all Sep 01 14:50:15 Enhanced Audio Profile? :D Sep 01 14:50:25 hmm, maybe Sep 01 14:50:37 Or extended. Sep 01 14:50:42 i was coming from Extensible Authentication Protocol direction Sep 01 14:50:43 Well lots of options. Sep 01 14:50:45 EAP_MultibandDrcControlInt32_UpdateVolumeSetting (Drc = dynamics reduction?) Sep 01 14:50:45 peap ? Sep 01 14:50:47 :p Sep 01 14:51:21 EAP_MultibandDrcControlInt32_UpdateCompressionCurveSet Sep 01 14:51:54 EAP_MultibandDrcControlInt32_UpdateCompanderRelease Sep 01 14:52:10 compander - it can't get any clearer Sep 01 14:52:12 andre__, ping? Sep 01 14:52:23 GAN900, pong Sep 01 14:52:43 andre__, what email are you using for maemo.org stuff? Sep 01 14:52:59 aklapper at openismus Sep 01 14:53:05 com Sep 01 14:53:10 Hey Sep 01 14:53:16 Does anyone use iheartradio? Sep 01 14:53:34 no. Sep 01 14:54:08 that code is to fucked up for static analysis Sep 01 14:54:14 MNZ: EAP_MultibandDrcControlInt32_UpdateLimiterAttack EAP_MultibandDrcControlInt32_UpdateLimiterRelease AP_MultibandDrcControlInt32_UpdateLimiterThreshold... Sep 01 14:54:44 DocScrutinizer, yes, following. I also found stuff about initializing fir/iir filters in the voice module Sep 01 14:54:56 andre__, check your inbox in a minute. Sep 01 14:56:46 GAN900, ah. thanks Sep 01 14:58:05 anyone know about the pulseaudio-modules-meego git repo? there are common, music, record and voice modules just like we have got Sep 01 14:58:17 any relation? Sep 01 14:58:21 http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/pulseaudio-modules-meego Sep 01 15:02:13 download em and compare Sep 01 15:02:38 pupnik, compare how? the others are closed Sep 01 15:03:03 oh Sep 01 15:04:00 When I attempt to install vncviewer from the maemo.org site, I get dependency warnings on my N800. I've deleted and refreshed the repositories but my device won't update various libraries anymore. Help?!? Sep 01 15:05:21 #define MUSIC_HOOK_DYNAMIC_ENHANCE "x-meego.music.dynamic_enhance" Sep 01 15:05:53 umgh Sep 01 15:09:44 MNZ: you gotta check this out http://linuxplumbersconf.org/ocw/proposals/105 Sep 01 15:10:03 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxplumbersconf.org%2F2009%2Fslides%2FJyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf&rct=j&q=%22jyri%20sarha%22&ei=kWt-TIrVJsyQOIX7gIIE&usg=AFQjCNEc99w2NYyWN63GZHa7SQpYhier7A&sig2=INruLiuLZw6WPuG_WI6roQ&cad=rja Sep 01 15:10:07 hmm sorry Sep 01 15:10:26 http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf Sep 01 15:10:34 pupnik, yup already have this :D Sep 01 15:12:49 hrmm have we got any profiling options on the N900? Sep 01 15:13:13 mnz, the left hand side profile is better Sep 01 15:13:52 yes you should have ability to install a profile kernel for oprofile Sep 01 15:13:53 afaik you can use an oprofile enabled kernel Sep 01 15:14:01 IOW the phone has APE Centric Audio Architecture Sep 01 15:14:05 an anybody translate that? Sep 01 15:14:16 application engine centric Sep 01 15:14:34 the 'application engine' is the cpu-side of the phone Sep 01 15:14:39 is on the Sep 01 15:14:52 i mean IOW Sep 01 15:16:17 so nobody knows what does IOW means Sep 01 15:16:44 in other words Sep 01 15:16:59 nobody knows what APE is Sep 01 15:17:10 except pupnik ;) Sep 01 15:17:30 that was just my interpretation Sep 01 15:18:27 APE == application processing engine Sep 01 15:18:33 maybe "in other words" jacekowski Sep 01 15:18:45 hmmm, that would make sense Sep 01 15:20:11 oh, so APE basically means screw-the-hardware-we'll-just-use-pulseaudio ? Sep 01 15:20:26 no Sep 01 15:21:53 jacekowski, that's what I gather from Jyri's presentation. APE Centric == route everything through the audio application layer instead of routing some stuff usign hardware and some stuff through software Sep 01 15:22:15 look at page 4 and 5 of the pdf Sep 01 15:22:29 not really Sep 01 15:22:40 it means that everything is going trough main cpu Sep 01 15:22:47 before reaching audio output Sep 01 15:22:57 but... that's what I just said :D Sep 01 15:23:40 application layer == pulseaudio (which is on the CPU of course) Sep 01 15:25:36 they could have pushed it trough rapuyama Sep 01 15:25:48 rapuyama has enough processing power to handle it Sep 01 15:25:55 and it would offload main cpu Sep 01 15:26:08 jacekowski: again, that would be sensible :) Sep 01 15:26:52 what's rapuyama? Sep 01 15:27:06 modem Sep 01 15:27:27 chip that in cheaper phones runs whole phone Sep 01 15:27:42 ARM core + DSP + modem Sep 01 15:28:05 in n900 reduced just to modem and interface to gps Sep 01 15:28:23 uh! so we have another arm core on board! nice Sep 01 15:29:06 the led controller is also a tiny cpu Sep 01 15:30:08 http://img693.imageshack.us/i/rapuyamachipinfo.jpg/ Sep 01 15:30:35 we also have an external DSP Sep 01 15:30:46 and an audio codec Sep 01 15:30:58 wait, those are the same Sep 01 15:30:59 nvm Sep 01 15:31:21 rapuyama is omap2 based processor Sep 01 15:31:22 the n900 is a hardware beast Sep 01 15:31:27 developed by TI with nokia Sep 01 15:31:37 sadly the software is slightly... inefficient Sep 01 15:31:49 kerio, hum Sep 01 15:31:55 it s really not so bad ... Sep 01 15:34:05 Khertan: PA uses a software equalizer while we have a perfectly-working hw one Sep 01 15:35:28 this is the problem when you divide software maker from hardware maker in different team Sep 01 15:36:26 kerio, Khertan - isnt this more that PA is used on various systems and hardware EQ is not always available Sep 01 15:37:04 lcuk, also Sep 01 15:37:34 greetings Sep 01 15:37:59 kerio, do you want to make a patch to use the hw EQ on n900? Sep 01 15:38:10 lcuk: MNZ is doing it :D Sep 01 15:38:33 good! Sep 01 15:38:45 where we have software eq? Sep 01 15:38:46 now Khertan having different teams isnt a problem :P Sep 01 15:38:49 dsp? Sep 01 15:38:55 idk Sep 01 15:39:00 idk ? Sep 01 15:39:22 lcuk, so far I've got the 3-D effect working (added as an alsa control) and I have a basic idea of how to get the EQ working. Then there's the filtering for the speaker protection Sep 01 15:39:23 i don't know Sep 01 15:39:33 jacekowski: pulseaudio - at least on some sinks Sep 01 15:39:46 and where is hardware eq? Sep 01 15:39:57 and is it working Sep 01 15:40:03 is available to alsa Sep 01 15:40:03 or is it like smartreflex Sep 01 15:40:19 jacekowski, hardware eq needs to be activated on the TLV320AIC34 codec chip Sep 01 15:40:26 i believe you can get to it with alsamixer $device MNZ Sep 01 15:40:42 after running pasuspender Sep 01 15:40:49 pupnik, yes, right after you write the alsa code :D Sep 01 15:41:07 like I said, I have already written the code for the 3-D effect control Sep 01 15:41:15 and for the record, it's 'alsamixer -D real' Sep 01 15:41:21 i saw EQ in alsamixer, maybe it wasn't functional Sep 01 15:42:15 pupnik, there are no equalizer controls, just a lot of controls for routing and volumes Sep 01 15:43:30 i saw an alsa control for HPF Sep 01 15:44:24 pupnik, yeah, that's for the HPF on the ADC. It's for mic input filtering Sep 01 15:44:44 ah ty Sep 01 15:44:51 hum ... someone know if there is a way to reactive shorcut for menu in maemo qt ? Sep 01 15:48:23 _suddenly_ skype no longer connects on n900 Sep 01 16:11:48 Khertan: interesting question Sep 01 16:13:24 actually qt OUGHT support kbd shortcuts also on N900. Seems since maemo5 all the fingerfriendliness killed kbd user interface somewhat Sep 01 16:13:49 which is a basic fault Sep 01 16:14:48 keyboard shortcut still work on qaction on toolbar Sep 01 16:15:12 maybe i should put invisible qaction on this toolbar :) Sep 01 16:20:59 DocScrutinizer: looking at meego netbook UX there are no kbd shortcuts and I started a fight in the forums about it as someone was thinking I want to kill all the nice and shiny clickable icons and have kbd shortcuts instead Sep 01 16:22:03 chem|st: what a silly debate based on a silly misconception Sep 01 16:22:33 people not being able to use a kbd anymore is a pain, the answer on my question about how userfriendly it is I got a link to a touchpanel upgrade posted Sep 01 16:23:26 Khertan: you can use simple QShortcut Sep 01 16:23:43 DocScrutinizer: yes, the shortcuts in maemo are just dumb, ctrl-shift-x for terminal... or just ctrl-shift-* is a pain Sep 01 16:23:51 Khertan: Sep 01 16:23:55 QShortcut *saveShortcut = new QShortcut(QKeySequence("Ctrl+S"), this); Sep 01 16:23:55 connect(saveShortcut, SIGNAL(activated()), this, SLOT(saveText())); Sep 01 16:24:04 right Sep 01 16:24:53 implementation of a ctrl-fn-* shortcut env. would be nice for n900 Sep 01 16:25:20 ctrl-Fn as well as Fn-shift are nice. ctrl-shift I'd use for things like ctrl-shift-doubleclick_BS to selfdestruct device Sep 01 16:26:28 ctrl-shift-power-enter for sequenced selfdestruction with nokia'ed mission impossible trailer up front Sep 01 16:27:02 I tried to remap fn-shift stuff but id never took effect... Sep 01 16:27:36 as I'd like to have a proper enter within fn-shift-enter instead of KP_Enter Sep 01 16:27:46 needs kernel driver / kbd driver patches I think. Was pondering to look into that several times now Sep 01 16:28:21 e.g signalling qualifier locked state via indicator LED would be a really awesome feature Sep 01 16:29:19 green for shift lock, red for Fn lock Sep 01 16:29:30 mmh yeah bright purple indication for alt lock Sep 01 16:29:55 something like that Sep 01 16:30:01 chem|st: ooh, i like that Sep 01 16:30:41 so far i only have shift+fn for... asdfghà.[left][right]zxcvbnm[backspace]èò Sep 01 16:30:42 I mean, you ever seen the ind LED doing anything meaningful during kbd slide open and you typing? Sep 01 16:30:43 kerio: you get a kbd hack working and I will implement the bright purple flashing on alt! Sep 01 16:30:53 (working) Sep 01 16:31:04 so no -> no conflicts whatsoever on lock indication Sep 01 16:31:45 DocScrutinizer: there is a dbus msg when you lock it, is there one for release? Sep 01 16:31:58 chem|st: i remapped half of my keyboard :) Sep 01 16:32:03 what, the qual keys? Sep 01 16:32:14 yes Sep 01 16:32:28 no idea really, gues no though Sep 01 16:32:30 kerio: me too Sep 01 16:32:41 kerio: added öüóőúéáű :) Sep 01 16:32:55 kerio: how do I remap my fn-enter? Sep 01 16:32:59 chem|st: dunno Sep 01 16:33:01 hold on Sep 01 16:33:29 and the fn-shift stuff needs another lvl Sep 01 16:33:51 Venemo: it's english-speaking channel :P Sep 01 16:33:51 as ! with fn is ! with fn-shift Sep 01 16:34:09 chem|st: that's because they're the same Sep 01 16:34:14 but they're defined separately Sep 01 16:34:27 so you can set caps lock and still have working symbols Sep 01 16:34:31 slonopotamus: I know... Sep 01 16:34:50 slonopotamus: anyways, I added the extra characters of my native language Sep 01 16:35:06 kerio: yes the keymap settings show something like [öÖ!!] for me Sep 01 16:35:45 but I want üÜß& and not üÜßß Sep 01 16:36:55 chem|st: you can do it Sep 01 16:37:00 but some fn+shift+key combinations don't work Sep 01 16:37:14 well, they work, but they map to two key combinations Sep 01 16:37:20 shift+fn+z/x is the same Sep 01 16:37:27 shift+fn+j/k is the same Sep 01 16:37:57 i suggest only setting one Sep 01 16:38:01 and removing the other Sep 01 16:39:05 nice pressing shift-fn-x gives two chars... Sep 01 16:39:14 yup Sep 01 16:39:20 i disabled shift+fn+z iirc Sep 01 16:41:30 see my comment there: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard Sep 01 16:43:08 * lcuk wilts Sep 01 16:44:25 * MNZ waters lcuk Sep 01 16:44:34 this keeps happening Sep 01 16:44:36 it's weird that half of the discussions here are basically constant nokia-bashing Sep 01 16:44:45 and yet we all agree the n900 is a wonderful piece of hardware Sep 01 16:44:57 kerio, it's either that or lcuk wilting or RST38h mooing Sep 01 16:45:03 this channel is the shit Sep 01 16:45:04 µ! Sep 01 16:45:08 most people dont do nokia bashing Sep 01 16:45:27 MNZ, i have just reached time of day when i need nourishment Sep 01 16:45:36 MNZ: watch it! Sep 01 16:46:02 so what should we discuss mnz? Sep 01 16:46:08 * lcuk is all up for new topics Sep 01 16:46:18 * lcuk was playing n-speed last night Sep 01 16:46:20 the misuse of the hardware codec by nokia Sep 01 16:46:29 I wasn't suggesting changing topics :D I like it as it is Sep 01 16:47:01 i cant find a mod sample extractor tho Sep 01 16:47:06 (amiga music mods) Sep 01 16:47:23 n-speed has a sample set and uses tracker mods for its music Sep 01 16:47:40 and I am *sure* they are taken from the amiga game lotus esprit turbo challenge Sep 01 16:47:42 and remized Sep 01 16:47:45 remixed Sep 01 16:47:55 i want to see if the "you will not copy this game" sample remains Sep 01 16:49:10 haha i just realised the first map is driving around an n-gage shaped track :D Sep 01 16:53:22 lcuk: load the mod into any tracker and you can see the sample list Sep 01 16:53:37 i havent got any that can load it Sep 01 16:54:49 hi, where can I find the n900 kernel? Sep 01 16:55:07 I'd like to read the SSI speech driver Sep 01 16:55:39 GNUtoo|laptop, in scratchbox: apt-get source kernel Sep 01 16:55:46 though not sure if that driver is open source Sep 01 16:55:50 ok but I've no n900 yet Sep 01 16:55:50 it is Sep 01 16:56:06 GNUtoo|laptop, you don't need an n900 Sep 01 16:56:13 I'm looking which next-phone to buy, the match is between n900 and palm pre Sep 01 16:56:13 ok Sep 01 16:56:34 don't get me wrong. You WANT an N900, you just don't necessarily need it for development :D Sep 01 16:57:00 lol Sep 01 16:57:02 anyway Sep 01 16:57:13 I need to find the kernel sources to decide Sep 01 16:57:31 because I'm an embedded developper Sep 01 16:57:37 I've commit access to openembedded Sep 01 16:57:40 I know a bit the kenrel Sep 01 16:57:50 so why not using the n900 for development? Sep 01 16:58:13 GNUtoo|laptop, you'll want to start here http://maemo.org/development/ Sep 01 16:58:55 ok thanks, anyway I would do system development...not writing an app Sep 01 16:59:01 I'm looking now Sep 01 16:59:04 look at the kernel part Sep 01 16:59:21 and how to set up the development environment (scratchbox) Sep 01 17:00:23 ok Sep 01 17:02:02 I've found the gitorious website Sep 01 17:03:55 Khertan, ping Sep 01 17:08:13 nice I found it Sep 01 17:08:15 thanks a lot Sep 01 17:08:35 hmm Sep 01 17:08:41 i'm watching the apple special event Sep 01 17:08:44 am i gay for steve jobs? Sep 01 17:09:04 did it just start? Sep 01 17:09:08 6 minutes Sep 01 17:09:09 yup Sep 01 17:12:30 OMG HDR PHOTOS Sep 01 17:12:38 oh wait, fcamera does that already Sep 01 17:13:14 :) Sep 01 17:13:23 why does steve jobs have pics of hot boys on his iphone Sep 01 17:13:27 maybe they'll announce RAW photos in sprint Sep 01 17:13:29 *spring Sep 01 17:15:53 kerio: holy crap, project sword looks good Sep 01 17:16:09 :o bumpmapping Sep 01 17:17:08 crashanddie, pong Sep 01 17:17:51 oh an apple special event ? on wednesday ? Sep 01 17:17:57 i only noticed some *minor* frame drops Sep 01 17:18:00 it's really cool Sep 01 17:20:24 does the n900 have printing? :( Sep 01 17:20:46 kerio, not directly Sep 01 17:21:32 apt-get install lpd Sep 01 17:21:33 :) Sep 01 17:21:44 So, what has Steve Jobs invented now? Sep 01 17:21:51 "stream photos over wifi"? :> Sep 01 17:22:29 'Detect reciprocating movement, and display porn' ? Sep 01 17:23:12 RST38h: cool interface to print Sep 01 17:23:28 streaming photos? wtf Sep 01 17:23:51 oh yeah, you can stream multimedia shit to iphones/ipods/ipads now Sep 01 17:23:55 meh Sep 01 17:24:05 timoph, it's like streaming videos, but for photos Sep 01 17:24:11 :) Sep 01 17:24:15 it's stupid Sep 01 17:24:20 why is it so slow to update? Sep 01 17:24:24 who has pr0n saved anyway Sep 01 17:24:33 jacekowski apparently Sep 01 17:24:34 must be magical Sep 01 17:24:46 is this normal? Sep 01 17:24:53 High Dynamic Range Photos: <<<<< mouarf !!!! aahhahaha Sep 01 17:24:55 yes Sep 01 17:24:59 on an iphone Sep 01 17:25:00 huhu Sep 01 17:25:01 well, no Sep 01 17:25:10 Khertan: it does what fcamera does Sep 01 17:25:12 three photos Sep 01 17:25:18 kerio, yep exactly Sep 01 17:25:24 although fcamera doesn't merge them :[ Sep 01 17:25:37 hdrcapture does Sep 01 17:25:39 i think Sep 01 17:25:53 Le nouvel AirTunes, pour lire Audio / Vidéo / Photos sur tous les Mac et périphériques. <<< wahou steve jobs discovers upnp Sep 01 17:25:53 * RST38h eeks Sep 01 17:26:06 * RST38h would still like to have HDR as a function of the stock Maemo camera app Sep 01 17:26:07 hdrcapture merge them Sep 01 17:26:12 Khertan: ooh Sep 01 17:26:27 HDR and superresolution Sep 01 17:26:28 am I muted or something :P Sep 01 17:26:38 Yes MohammadAG51. Sep 01 17:26:40 MohammadAG51: yup Sep 01 17:26:48 thanks :p Sep 01 17:26:49 new iPod shuffle (with buttons): $49 Sep 01 17:26:58 and without buttons? Sep 01 17:26:58 * RST38h unmutes MohammadAG51 Sep 01 17:27:07 wolf^: YOU NEED BUTTONS Sep 01 17:27:09 YOU LOVE BUTTONS Sep 01 17:27:12 crash: So, has He invented buttons now? Sep 01 17:27:22 We He have the iPhone with Buttons too? Sep 01 17:27:44 iphone has one button, you don't need more Sep 01 17:27:50 RST38h: nope, he said "we noticed people missed the buttons, so we listened and put buttons back" Sep 01 17:28:01 but the new ipod nano has no buttons Sep 01 17:28:09 but is has multitouch Sep 01 17:28:23 new ipod nano with a tiny multitouch Sep 01 17:28:30 it was known Sep 01 17:28:37 it's about as big as the shuffle Sep 01 17:28:38 wtf Sep 01 17:28:47 why would one buy the shuffle Sep 01 17:28:50 cheaper Sep 01 17:28:55 Presumably. Sep 01 17:28:55 in other news, welcome to #apple Sep 01 17:29:08 I love my latest apple product. Sep 01 17:29:25 Wolf^ magical pad have any button ... so why a phone need one ? Sep 01 17:29:31 what's your latest apple product? Sep 01 17:29:41 Take two apples, chop roughly, removing the core. Add maybe 40g of sugar, and microwave for 3 minutes. Lovely with pork. Sep 01 17:29:46 nice Sep 01 17:29:57 I call it iSauce. Sep 01 17:30:10 hah. Sep 01 17:30:36 inb4 no ipod classic Sep 01 17:30:46 32gb of music should be enough for everyone Sep 01 17:31:07 kerio, huM ... 32gb isn't enough Sep 01 17:31:14 Khertan: i know Sep 01 17:31:28 46GBs used here Sep 01 17:31:41 lmao Sep 01 17:31:42 OMG THE WIGGLE Sep 01 17:31:45 IT'S SO INNOVATIVE Sep 01 17:32:11 err? wiggle? Sep 01 17:32:16 to move icons Sep 01 17:32:23 oh, lol Sep 01 17:32:35 well, you can rotate the screen Sep 01 17:32:38 that's one thing my n900 can't do Sep 01 17:32:40 :( Sep 01 17:32:52 well, hate it or love it, they're being very consistent throughout their product line, and the scrolling is 20 times smoother than anything we have on the n900 Sep 01 17:33:00 OMG He is announcing "Bugs fixed" at the top of his first iOS 4.1 slide Sep 01 17:33:21 * RST38h dreams of the top Maemo cheese doing the same Sep 01 17:33:22 "new bugs added" Sep 01 17:33:24 crashanddie: they also don't have a keyboard :< Sep 01 17:33:28 <_trine> is there an app that if you lost your phone you could ring it and it would tell you its position using GPS Sep 01 17:33:35 _trine: yes Sep 01 17:33:37 _trine: Find My Iphone Sep 01 17:33:50 pay a mobileme subscription Sep 01 17:33:50 kerio: it's not a phone, there's no point in having a keyboard on a music player Sep 01 17:34:06 it's not a phone Sep 01 17:34:07 crashanddie: the ipod touch is like a tablet Sep 01 17:34:12 it has the word phone in it Sep 01 17:34:17 but it's not a phone Sep 01 17:34:29 MohammadAG51: the ipod nano Sep 01 17:34:40 that's an iphone without the phone part Sep 01 17:34:53 omg they outsold nintendo Sep 01 17:34:53 oh ... i simply ssh to my n900 and launch the media player with a music from amon amarth ... so if i left it in the garage ... i can hear it Sep 01 17:34:58 except that they have crappy games Sep 01 17:35:21 I just type 'beep' and it plays the fanfare. Sep 01 17:35:22 inb4 buttons Sep 01 17:35:39 Khertan: Not hardcore enough Sep 01 17:35:53 Khertan: Real Hardcore Geeks (tm) listen their music in XTerm, over SSH Sep 01 17:35:57 omg camera Sep 01 17:36:14 RST38h: they use a CRT monitor to send their music to a nearby AM radio Sep 01 17:36:20 dpkg-deb (subprocess): failed to exec tar: No such file or directory Sep 01 17:36:23 wtf Sep 01 17:36:33 MohammadAG51: i don't like the sound of that Sep 01 17:36:51 -sh: ./tar: Stale NFS file handle Sep 01 17:36:54 wtf? Sep 01 17:36:56 RST38h, i use ssh and mafw dbus command ... i'm a dev ... not a geek Sep 01 17:37:07 Khertan: accept it Sep 01 17:37:11 heh Sep 01 17:37:21 Mohammad: Your N900 has grown nfs Sep 01 17:37:24 wtf is stale nfs file handle? Sep 01 17:37:33 MohammadAG51: i think it's a file handle over nfs that's stale Sep 01 17:37:36 means the directory . has ceased to exist Sep 01 17:37:56 uhuh... Sep 01 17:38:13 64gb Sep 01 17:38:19 they're eliminating the ipod classic :( Sep 01 17:38:27 and how do i fsck it? Sep 01 17:38:44 oh Sep 01 17:38:46 opt's corrupt Sep 01 17:38:47 you know, the iWatch is cool Sep 01 17:38:49 nice Sep 01 17:39:00 but there's no wifi :( Sep 01 17:39:16 kerio, why are you sad? Sep 01 17:39:34 i decided that my next watch will have NTP support Sep 01 17:39:43 you know, in the #apple channel they are discussing the n900 now Sep 01 17:39:55 joining! Sep 01 17:40:04 * lcuk facepalms Sep 01 17:40:07 lcuk: really? :o Sep 01 17:40:16 they should be Sep 01 17:40:20 you're lying :( Sep 01 17:40:22 hahahahaha Sep 01 17:40:24 i'm not Sep 01 17:40:26 go in and ask Sep 01 17:40:39 lcuk, you lie Sep 01 17:40:46 have you asked them? Sep 01 17:40:51 no Sep 01 17:40:59 don't start a flame war :D Sep 01 17:41:12 lies Sep 01 17:41:13 on second thought Sep 01 17:41:17 lets start a flame war Sep 01 17:41:23 MNZ: less chat more hw eq Sep 01 17:41:44 * MNZ goes back to DSP literature :( Sep 01 17:42:14 omg no cd Sep 01 17:42:37 ooh I think I'm gonna stay #apple for gems like these Sep 01 17:42:46 is the ipod nano 3rd gen retina dsplay lol Sep 01 17:42:51 can i piggyback cells onto my notebook power-pack? Sep 01 17:43:53 it would be fun to make a battery pack that covers the entire base Sep 01 17:44:07 i was a fan of apple os in the past... but the mentality change since the switch to the intel cpu Sep 01 17:45:18 any decent games come out recently Sep 01 17:45:49 ping ... Lol ... the worst name to choose for a social network Sep 01 17:46:08 September 1st 2010: Apple invents last.fm Sep 01 17:46:10 * MiserySoft (~Lee@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) has joined ##apple Sep 01 17:46:43 When Facebook and Twitter meet iTunes. <<< hum ... a other failed ? Sep 01 17:47:24 if they integrate twitter i hope they use oauth :) Sep 01 17:47:35 as basic auth was cut today on twitter :) Sep 01 17:47:50 * Jaffa noticed Sep 01 17:47:57 nah they'll probably invent a new mechanism and force twitter to adapt it Sep 01 17:48:00 A pain for the MWKN checker script Sep 01 17:48:03 * lcuk goes and plays with pretty stuff Sep 01 17:53:10 Jaffa, is it in python ? Sep 01 17:53:42 Jaffa, as if it s the case i can help you Sep 01 17:53:59 crashanddie: Fancy modifying scripts/check-twitter.pl and scripts/announce-issue.pl under mwkn.garage.maemo.org to use OAuth? Sep 01 17:55:39 Khertan: Perl. Hermes is Python. Sep 01 17:55:40 Khertan: That needs doing too Sep 01 17:56:17 ouch ... perl i really can't help you ;) Sep 01 17:56:50 Khertan: But Herme has OAuth code for LinkedcIn already, so that should be straightforward Sep 01 18:03:48 is the stream cutting out for anyone else? Sep 01 18:07:59 Doc: Here? Sep 01 18:09:24 Jaffa: dunno Sep 01 18:09:30 Jaffa: what happened, don't it work no more? Sep 01 18:10:33 RST38h: temporarily Sep 01 18:20:34 Hi Sep 01 18:21:17 something is wrong with either google or nuevasync Sep 01 18:21:29 * RST38h suspects nuevasync Sep 01 18:27:30 damnit, wozniac has become a fat fuck Sep 01 18:27:31 lol my N900 is fucked up Sep 01 18:27:49 all letter shows as squares Sep 01 18:27:59 icons in menu gone Sep 01 18:28:01 hey! what's with dissing the Woz? Sep 01 18:28:04 :) Sep 01 18:28:11 nice Sep 01 18:28:16 busybox is fucked up too Sep 01 18:28:20 * kthomas_vh_ looks at his own belly Sep 01 18:32:26 the woz is always the woz Sep 01 18:32:42 even if it has three times the mass required for a single skinny nerd Sep 01 18:32:53 ha! Sep 01 18:33:06 skinny nerds, alas, tend to grow into fat nerds Sep 01 18:33:23 and skinny super-nerds... Sep 01 18:33:44 ~seen lcuk Sep 01 18:33:56 lcuk is currently on #maemo (2d 8h 51m 47s) #meego (2d 8h 51m 47s). Has said a total of 462 messages. Is idling for 48m 37s, last said: 'any decent games come out recently'. Sep 01 18:34:08 kthomas_vh_: huh? Sep 01 18:34:13 fat nerds are fat nerds Sep 01 18:34:16 skinny nerds are skinny nerds Sep 01 18:34:51 * kthomas_vh_ refers kerio to The Hacker's Diet Sep 01 18:35:06 yeah but truly skinny nerds stay skinny Sep 01 18:35:10 the lucky bastards Sep 01 18:35:11 :< Sep 01 18:35:17 :< Sep 01 18:35:19 lcuk: starcraft 2 Sep 01 18:35:33 lcuk: unnethack Sep 01 18:36:02 kerio, not as fun as it sounds. Sep 01 18:36:12 unnethack? Sep 01 18:36:14 it is Sep 01 18:36:45 kerio, staying skinny. :P Sep 01 18:36:49 oh Sep 01 18:37:13 crashanddie, that game is evil. Sep 01 18:37:32 GAN900: do you have it? Sep 01 18:37:37 * GAN900 was having flashbacks to middle school playing yesterday. Sep 01 18:38:19 I dunno how many all-nighters we pulled between StarCraft and Smash Bros. Sep 01 18:38:26 crashanddie, yes. Sep 01 18:38:40 GAN900: shame we can't play together :( Sep 01 18:38:58 blizzard killed international gaming :( Sep 01 18:39:07 anyway, going for food Sep 01 18:39:11 'later Sep 01 18:39:14 Howso? Sep 01 18:39:25 GAN900: the servers are limited between continents Sep 01 18:39:28 GAN900: no LAN Sep 01 18:39:29 * MohammadAG doubts anyone can do this kind of damage to the N900's fs, http://i53.tinypic.com/155tbpt.jpg http://i51.tinypic.com/m73mfn.jpg Sep 01 18:39:33 and separation between servers Sep 01 18:39:39 GAN900: remember how when subscribing it asked for your continent? Sep 01 18:39:42 Wait, what? Sep 01 18:39:49 MohammadAG: pff Sep 01 18:39:51 i can delete fonts too Sep 01 18:39:53 You can't play internationally AT ALL? Sep 01 18:39:58 GAN900: nope Sep 01 18:39:59 kerio, I didn't delete fonts Sep 01 18:40:04 they went away with the reboot Sep 01 18:40:06 blizzard knows what's best for you! Sep 01 18:40:10 s/the/a/ Sep 01 18:40:11 MohammadAG meant: ay went away with the reboot Sep 01 18:40:15 GAN900: well, Europe can play with other europeans, but the french can't play with US Sep 01 18:40:16 failbot Sep 01 18:40:21 They messed up Custom Games, too. Sep 01 18:40:30 'later Sep 01 18:40:40 kerio, icons died too Sep 01 18:40:48 US/Europe/Asia Sep 01 18:44:47 Well, this'll be the last of my money Blizzard gets. Sep 01 18:45:22 ... Sep 01 18:46:24 sure Sep 01 18:46:36 except when they make another ridiculously awesome game Sep 01 18:47:01 kerio, I forsee that becoming less and less likely. Sep 01 18:48:40 MohammadAG, you just lost opt Sep 01 18:48:53 opt... is gone Sep 01 18:49:01 lcuk, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Sep 01 18:49:07 you bastard! Sep 01 18:49:18 opt, OPT, come back sweetie Sep 01 18:49:36 Making the most powerful mod engine ever then making it useless by monetizing every tiny thing is awesome. Sep 01 18:49:38 * MohammadAG cries Sep 01 18:50:06 Half the reason SC was played for 12 years were the custom maps. Sep 01 18:50:06 lcuk, hmm, I think I lost /home Sep 01 18:50:14 Never underestimate corpse avarice Sep 01 18:50:21 eMMC reflash it is Sep 01 18:50:32 you gotta FLASH IT UP! Sep 01 18:50:33 wasn't there some sed hack to repartition the eMMC? Sep 01 18:50:49 hm Sep 01 18:50:58 backing up MyDocs will take some time :S Sep 01 18:51:05 MohammadAG: lol Sep 01 18:51:19 MohammadAG, technically just flashing emmc on its own won't help Sep 01 18:51:27 I'm flashing both lcuk Sep 01 18:51:27 yeah, you need to reflash anything Sep 01 18:51:33 reasonable enough Sep 01 18:51:43 GAN900, starcraft is still played isnt it Sep 01 18:51:43 * kerio hugs MohammadAG and tells him it's going to be alright Sep 01 18:51:57 DCIM/ is huge Sep 01 18:52:01 it seems I am getting close to a limit, I tried updating a package and got this error: not enough space in application install memory Sep 01 18:52:11 but in conky, I still have 41.75mb free in rootfs, 151.16 in home and more than 6gb in mydocs Sep 01 18:52:36 MohammadAG, it should be backed up anyway :P Sep 01 18:52:53 smhar, then I guess you hit the limit Sep 01 18:53:04 haven't backed up MyDocs in ages Sep 01 18:53:05 (and the fact that many people are Korean) Sep 01 18:53:09 I wonder if my eMMC is broken Sep 01 18:53:28 there is a minimum size due to the nature of rootfs being compressed Sep 01 18:53:37 * ShadowJK backed up /home/* yesterday, including MyDocs Sep 01 18:53:39 rsync ftw Sep 01 18:53:41 is this a hard limit or is there a way to change it? Sep 01 18:53:52 ShadowJK, except when /home is corrupt Sep 01 18:54:16 that happened once :) Sep 01 18:54:32 * ShadowJK formatted it and restored from backup Sep 01 18:55:09 ls: opt/lybniz: Input/output error Sep 01 18:55:10 ls: opt/secretexit: Input/output error Sep 01 18:55:10 ls: opt/vagalume: Stale NFS file handle Sep 01 18:55:10 ls: opt/cell-modem-ui: Stale NFS file handle Sep 01 18:55:10 ls: opt/nhouse: Input/output error Sep 01 18:55:10 ls: opt/supertux: Input/output error Sep 01 18:55:53 MohammadAG, what happens if you remount opt? Sep 01 18:55:58 did you run fsck on it? Sep 01 18:56:03 sounds like a healthy N900 Sep 01 18:56:09 ShadowJK, how? Sep 01 18:56:13 it's always mounted Sep 01 18:56:24 good, don't do it, it makes it worse Sep 01 18:56:36 lol Sep 01 18:56:42 the Stale NFS file handle thing is very weird Sep 01 18:56:51 I did it from rc.sysinit iirc, before it was mounted Sep 01 18:56:52 stale NFS hande == you're busted. Reflash Sep 01 18:56:57 20:52 < MohammadAG> ls: opt/cell-modem-ui: Stale NFS file handle Sep 01 18:56:59 nfs? Sep 01 18:57:09 that's what it says, not me Sep 01 18:57:09 yeah, where does nfs come in here? Sep 01 18:57:20 it happened on my ext4 PC once Sep 01 18:57:22 had to format Sep 01 18:57:35 well, ext4 is like a /dev/null with delayed trigger Sep 01 18:58:06 grr, laptop's battery is low Sep 01 18:58:22 it keeps showing me an error message in the yellow banner Sep 01 18:58:35 it's not from telepathy, went offline Sep 01 18:58:55 unexpected poweroff/reset with harddrive filesystem on sd/mmc is pretty bad :( Sep 01 18:59:03 everything in inodes looking sufficiently weird to FS handler is considered a stale NFS handle Sep 01 18:59:08 by the way, guy with explosives threatening the discovery channel HQ Sep 01 18:59:17 tomtom did extensive testing on the topic, iirc Sep 01 18:59:18 www.tmz.com is streaming fox news Sep 01 18:59:19 jacekowski: every mainstream distro uses ext4 by default now Sep 01 18:59:46 luke-jr, even gentoo?! Sep 01 19:00:19 and eventually they settled on ext2 mounted sync, in an image file on vfat.. or the other way around, with vfat being -o sync Sep 01 19:00:23 brtfs is where it's at Sep 01 19:00:48 hahahaa I read that as britfs for a second Sep 01 19:00:52 export slicedbreak=ext3 Sep 01 19:00:53 I don't think any fs can deal with powerloss on sd/mmc :/ Sep 01 19:01:05 I thought ext4 was the next best thing after $slicedbread Sep 01 19:01:34 slonopotamus: Gentoo has no default Sep 01 19:01:38 sliced bread sucks Sep 01 19:01:46 you guys outside of Italy really fail at eating Sep 01 19:01:52 I prefer pita bread personally Sep 01 19:01:52 Shadikka: log structured filesystems should be pretty safe in that regard, with the cost of excessive writes Sep 01 19:01:55 luke-jr, it has recomendations in handbook Sep 01 19:02:06 ext4 is the extra booster rockets bolted on to ext3 to keep the ship going until btrfs stops exploding and imploding violently Sep 01 19:02:06 MNZ, pain in the ass bread? Sep 01 19:02:09 err ShadowJK Sep 01 19:02:09 never heard of that Sep 01 19:02:20 :| Sep 01 19:02:29 ok, it does sound dirty Sep 01 19:02:38 anyhow, I usually use ext4-minus-journal for SSD now Sep 01 19:02:41 what, that's what pita means :P Sep 01 19:02:44 ~wtf pita Sep 01 19:02:46 PITA: pain in the ass Sep 01 19:02:46 huh? Sep 01 19:02:50 journals are good, aren't they Sep 01 19:03:01 not on a flash based disk Sep 01 19:03:02 I know. It also means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pita though Sep 01 19:03:02 cehteh, yeah I'm using nilfs2 on my sheevaplug (usb flash disk as storage) Sep 01 19:03:05 luke-jr: the no-journal doesnt give you anything Sep 01 19:03:15 ShadowJK: what sheevaplug? Sep 01 19:03:20 old one or new one? Sep 01 19:03:24 Shadikka: yes my nilfs tests are very promising also on spinning disks Sep 01 19:03:30 the first one Sep 01 19:03:31 arrgs Sep 01 19:03:34 cehteh: it makes it more reliable on failure Sep 01 19:03:36 i currently have ubuntu on a SD with ext3 :| Sep 01 19:03:41 etab Sep 01 19:03:48 luke-jr: how that? Sep 01 19:04:05 MNZ, oh, never knew it was called pita Sep 01 19:04:09 cehteh: with-journal causes the filesystem driver to jump to a bunch of false conclusions Sep 01 19:04:17 without-journal means it will get checked properly Sep 01 19:04:28 MohammadAG, haven't you ever seen arab stereotype videos :O ? Sep 01 19:04:36 Well on proper sata connected ssd you het ncq and stuff so the fs knows what data has been written, and can enforce data ordering.. Sep 01 19:04:36 wtf 6.7G /home/mohammad/MyDocs.tar.gz Sep 01 19:04:48 luke-jr: does it fake barriers or what? Sep 01 19:04:51 how is it 6.7GBs when the drive is almost full Sep 01 19:04:58 on sd/mmc you just lose random 128k chunks Sep 01 19:05:12 cehteh: … Sep 01 19:05:22 i'm also using a bigass 1tb external drive Sep 01 19:05:23 ShadowJK, 22GBs of chunks? Sep 01 19:05:29 MohammadAG, lost chains Sep 01 19:05:35 read/write on the SD happens rarely Sep 01 19:05:35 oh god Sep 01 19:05:50 it happens all the time on n900 :D Sep 01 19:05:51 or tar has the best compression I've seen in my life Sep 01 19:06:00 you mean gz Sep 01 19:06:02 tar Sep 01 19:06:02 21GBs, normal cp Sep 01 19:06:03 MohammadAG: you really fucked up your eMMC Sep 01 19:06:06 yes, tar.gz Sep 01 19:06:06 hmm Sep 01 19:06:11 MohammadAG: tar has no compression Sep 01 19:06:17 yes yes, my bad Sep 01 19:06:17 MohammadAG: i'd use ddrecover Sep 01 19:06:19 MohammadAG: bz2 is better Sep 01 19:06:28 jacekowski, lzma is better than all 3 Sep 01 19:06:29 MohammadAG: and lzma is better than bz2 Sep 01 19:06:29 it's slower Sep 01 19:06:34 MohammadAG: squashfs does it awesomly better ... # Sep 01 19:06:38 MohammadAG, 22 gigs of /dev/zero? Sep 01 19:06:43 LOL Sep 01 19:06:44 jacekowski: i assume he's using socat to transfer the tar directly to another computer Sep 01 19:06:50 lzma is impractical on little RAM Sep 01 19:06:51 if only squashfs had a stable format :P Sep 01 19:06:56 xz XD Sep 01 19:07:01 with bzip or lzma, cpu/ram could become the bottleneck Sep 01 19:07:03 as opposed to network Sep 01 19:07:06 lzma is awesome Sep 01 19:07:08 on an i5 Sep 01 19:07:12 heh Sep 01 19:07:15 on an N900... Sep 01 19:07:17 tar.lz? Sep 01 19:07:20 its much more efficient than tar cpu, speed and space wise Sep 01 19:07:28 I use pbzip2 on my Q9550 Sep 01 19:07:30 is this a hard limit or is there a way to change it? Sep 01 19:07:30 or tar.lzma? Sep 01 19:07:34 tar.lzma Sep 01 19:07:42 for short time backups and not archiving data thats really a choice Sep 01 19:07:51 30 minutes left, g_nokia is slow :P Sep 01 19:07:58 or was it g_file_storage Sep 01 19:08:02 * ShadowJK wishes a 2.83 GHz quad core2 cpu was fast enough to not slow down on adobe flash ;p Sep 01 19:08:16 lol Sep 01 19:08:30 plugin-container raped my old laptop Sep 01 19:08:41 used to max out the poor 1.7GHz single core centrino Sep 01 19:08:55 sometimes it goes into a crash frenzy too Sep 01 19:09:10 it used to crash my compiz Sep 01 19:09:34 yay Sep 01 19:09:40 i was trying to view a web page entirely in flash, like 9 flash things. One for menu, one for secondary menu, one for each paragraph of content Sep 01 19:09:41 just got a text message, guess what, I can't read it Sep 01 19:09:55 hildon-desktop crashed xD Sep 01 19:10:05 I was clicking refresh repeatedly because 7/9 of those would crash flash player Sep 01 19:10:13 except not always the same 7 Sep 01 19:10:36 ShadowJK: lol Sep 01 19:11:28 each refresh showed another small random piece of the page :| Sep 01 19:11:35 it took ages to navigate Sep 01 19:11:39 stupid flash :/ Sep 01 19:12:14 ok, I am using claws-mail as my email client in N900 -for the lack of an an alternative- and it is not very bad -compared to Modest-, but it seems it stores its files in the main /home which is eating valuable space, can I make it store them in MyDocs? Sep 01 19:12:51 If nothing else, symlink the folder to MyDocs Sep 01 19:13:02 symlink the DAMMIT Shadikka Sep 01 19:13:14 :> Sep 01 19:13:26 this time autocomplete did not highlight the wrong shad* Sep 01 19:14:12 I think symlinking a lot of folders -for different programs is in order Sep 01 19:14:38 but why did Nokia decide to make MyDocs Fat32 fs? Sep 01 19:14:45 Windows Sep 01 19:14:46 PS3 Sep 01 19:14:47 etc Sep 01 19:14:56 atleast claws on maemo4 was fine with the email folders/cache on vfat Sep 01 19:15:20 mohammadAG, are there still people using those? :-) Sep 01 19:15:36 smhar, what's wrong with PS3s? Sep 01 19:15:56 never had it, so not sure Sep 01 19:16:02 yay more nokiabashing Sep 01 19:16:10 mohammadAG, I meant people using windows :-0 Sep 01 19:16:20 the ps3 is not that bad Sep 01 19:16:22 oh, I don't :P Sep 01 19:16:31 it was hacked, more GPU power for us Sep 01 19:16:31 except that sony customers apparently like to get raped in the ass on a regular basis Sep 01 19:47:17 epic Sep 01 19:47:17 Nokia-N900:~$ hildon-desktop Sep 01 19:47:18 Segmentation fault Sep 01 19:48:12 MohammadAG: lol Sep 01 19:53:39 that's just awesome :o Sep 01 19:54:55 MohammadAG, you win Sep 01 19:55:00 did you reformat Sep 01 19:55:40 99% eMMC download Sep 01 19:56:52 MohammadAG: great job Sep 01 19:56:54 :D Sep 01 19:57:33 hmm Sep 01 19:57:40 mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/Downloads$ strings RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin | grep 2048 Sep 01 19:57:40 size = 2048; Sep 01 19:58:11 did you randomly look for "2048" in the emmc image? Sep 01 19:59:07 2GBs = 2048 Sep 01 20:00:04 sed -i filename s/2048/3072/g? Sep 01 20:00:06 idk sed Sep 01 20:01:39 * MohammadAG pokes DocScrutinizer Sep 01 20:02:26 MohammadAG, that would change all instances of 2048 though, is there only one? Sep 01 20:02:34 yes Sep 01 20:02:37 actually Sep 01 20:02:41 the file is interesting Sep 01 20:02:42 partition { Sep 01 20:02:42 size = 768; Sep 01 20:02:42 fs_type = "swap"; Sep 01 20:02:48 you can add partitions yourself Sep 01 20:03:00 partition { Sep 01 20:03:00 size = 2048; Sep 01 20:03:00 fs_type = "ext3"; Sep 01 20:03:00 prefix = "home"; Sep 01 20:03:38 MohammadAG: what caused the segfault? Sep 01 20:03:42 idk Sep 01 20:03:47 MohammadAG: k Sep 01 20:08:02 add a second swap, so you can switch between them every now and then, defragmenting swap space Sep 01 20:09:06 * DocScrutinizer hopes this wouldn't crash the evil out of maemo, due to changed partiton numbering Sep 01 20:09:34 add more swap Sep 01 20:09:38 add 6gb of swap Sep 01 20:10:24 BS, even 768 are way too much Sep 01 20:10:57 DocScrutinizer, how do I change 2048 to 3072? Sep 01 20:12:08 sed -e 's/2048/3999/' filename Sep 01 20:12:35 3999? Sep 01 20:13:00 if it's a binary, it will most probably corrupt it :) Sep 01 20:13:14 no, same number of bytes, no harm done Sep 01 20:15:01 lol, MNZ 2048 bytes isn't the same as 3999 bytes!!! Sep 01 20:15:12 it's like nearly double Sep 01 20:15:19 2048 = 4 bytes Sep 01 20:15:24 3999 = 4 bytes Sep 01 20:15:26 -__- Sep 01 20:15:49 I mean '2048' = 4 bytes Sep 01 20:16:12 and the worst part is that he thinks I'm serious :) Sep 01 20:16:20 damn trolls Sep 01 20:16:29 MohammadAG: probably you'll also want to add -i Sep 01 20:16:46 DocScrutinizer: you never know, uppercase digits are dangerous Sep 01 20:16:49 for 'in-place edit' Sep 01 20:16:50 crash and die crashanddie >:K Sep 01 20:17:05 Is there a file where I can add lines that are executed upon connection opening on Maemo 5? Sep 01 20:17:11 BS, even 768 are way too much Sep 01 20:17:12 too much? Sep 01 20:18:10 what use is in waiting 5min for swap to finish? Sep 01 20:19:30 but meh Sep 01 20:19:36 ignore me Sep 01 20:21:35 MNZ: get original mate :) Sep 01 20:21:53 MohammadAG: there was something that can assemble combined image from parts Sep 01 20:22:06 fiasco-gen Sep 01 20:22:20 MohammadAG: you should grep for 2048 to make sure there are no multiple occurences though Sep 01 20:22:31 DocScrutinizer, I did, none Sep 01 20:22:33 kept swap as it is Sep 01 20:22:41 now to brick it Sep 01 20:22:43 err, flash Sep 01 20:22:59 and use hex editor Sep 01 20:23:06 not some sed trickery that may fuck it up Sep 01 20:23:20 k, otherwise you'd need longer match, or specify nr of occurence Sep 01 20:23:31 hmm, shit Sep 01 20:23:34 forgot to backup ~ Sep 01 20:23:44 good thing N900 refused to turn off Sep 01 20:23:45 CTRL-C CTRL-C Sep 01 20:23:57 jacekowski: there will be no fsckup Sep 01 20:24:18 i don't trust sed Sep 01 20:24:26 it can do regexps Sep 01 20:25:03 jacekowski, you don't qualify for the hacker title unless you have perled seded awked and bashed your way through hordes of problems with more sane answers Sep 01 20:25:30 i've got no problem with awk and bash Sep 01 20:25:39 but whenever it comes close to perl Sep 01 20:25:46 jacekowski: well actually some implementations might fail on lines >16k chars Sep 01 20:26:01 or some other random max linelength Sep 01 20:26:27 besides, that binary edit is probably not going to work Sep 01 20:26:36 iirc that image is checksummed Sep 01 20:26:49 ahhhh Sep 01 20:26:50 wait Sep 01 20:26:54 it's not fiasco image Sep 01 20:27:06 it works, somebody did exactly this before Sep 01 20:27:09 so it's a fiasco Sep 01 20:27:10 :D Sep 01 20:43:02 DocScrutinizer, so problem sorted? Sep 01 20:43:17 yup Sep 01 20:44:02 good stuff Sep 01 20:44:20 yeah actually. A lot of people more happy now Sep 01 20:44:25 DocScrutinizer, do you happen to know what sort of chipsets the early nokia phones have Sep 01 20:44:38 hi DocScrutinizer Sep 01 20:44:55 lcuk: not really, off top of my head Sep 01 20:44:56 DocScrutinizer, do you have an idea on how to feed /dev/cmt_speech Sep 01 20:45:06 fuck recruiters who read programming questions from a form incorrectly for me to try and answer Sep 01 20:45:12 GNUtoo|laptop: sorry, nope Sep 01 20:45:16 GNUtoo|laptop, can't you use the text to speech thing Sep 01 20:45:17 because I've looked at the driver, it seem similar to SSI Sep 01 20:45:23 flite! Sep 01 20:45:32 * lcuk made it say hello to him the other night Sep 01 20:45:32 GNUtoo|laptop: I guess it actually is Sep 01 20:45:40 but usually DAI are attached to a codec Sep 01 20:45:40 but i couldnt get it direct for some reason Sep 01 20:45:46 i had to save as wav then playback Sep 01 20:45:50 and the driver seem to write what you give him Sep 01 20:46:25 hmm Sep 01 20:46:29 fiasco first, then eMMC Sep 01 20:46:38 apparently it boots into a different flashing mode for the eMMC Sep 01 20:46:46 Mk II or something Sep 01 20:46:48 lcuk, I'm evaluating if I should buy a n900 or a palm pre, in order to do that I want to know if SHR(an angstrom, openembedded distro) can run without issue and without proprietary stuff Sep 01 20:46:51 and RAW EP Sep 01 20:47:18 on palm-pre-plus it should straingtforward....but on n900 there are many unknowns Sep 01 20:47:19 pupnik, i saw a thing recently that the first commercial gsm call was from Nokia in Helsinki Sep 01 20:47:22 http://funlok.com/index.php/information/1o-interesting-facts-about-nokia.html Sep 01 20:47:24 and n900 has far better hardware Sep 01 20:47:31 hah cool Sep 01 20:47:32 it would be great to find the model and chipset Sep 01 20:47:39 i gots ta haves me some RAMEN Sep 01 20:47:39 the n900 has a lot of hardware Sep 01 20:47:48 ok dude Sep 01 20:47:55 if you wanted to write truly efficient software on it, you could do incredible things Sep 01 20:47:59 GNUtoo|laptop, the n900 kicks the ass of things with better hardware Sep 01 20:48:03 but i am biased Sep 01 20:48:16 and i mean *truly* incredible things Sep 01 20:48:19 I know....but if I can't make phonecalls the interest lower a lot Sep 01 20:48:28 kerio, yeah Sep 01 20:48:32 i mean, if we manage to unlock rapuyama Sep 01 20:48:36 but that same software breaks compatability Sep 01 20:48:37 a pandora or something like that would be cheaper Sep 01 20:48:42 and if you also wanted to use the DSP, the codec, and the led cpu Sep 01 20:48:43 :3 Sep 01 20:49:01 kerio, nahh those can be done by the other things Sep 01 20:49:09 technically the cpu can do the rendering just fine. Sep 01 20:49:12 lcuk: yeah but efficiency Sep 01 20:49:21 if anything, you should try to offload stuff as much as you can Sep 01 20:49:24 efficiency involves doing less Sep 01 20:49:26 what's the graphical chip? Sep 01 20:49:33 maybe we can use that too Sep 01 20:49:33 and of course using the right part Sep 01 20:49:39 PowerVR SGX Sep 01 20:49:44 epic Sep 01 20:49:47 depends on how you use it Sep 01 20:49:52 GNUtoo|laptop: why wouldn't you be able to do phonecalls? all that's involved is rather open, and on meego it will be completely open Sep 01 20:49:57 sorry, but afaik the one in the 3G S is better Sep 01 20:50:10 MohammadAG, the apple OS has a shorter pipeline Sep 01 20:50:14 MohammadAG: :( Sep 01 20:50:19 lcuk: heh, that's what she said Sep 01 20:50:22 DocScrutinizer, will meego support n900? I'm not sure Sep 01 20:50:31 GNUtoo|laptop: eventually, sure Sep 01 20:50:32 why not Sep 01 20:50:34 DocScrutinizer, there is some initial ophono support Sep 01 20:50:34 kerio, in this case a longer pipeline is bad Sep 01 20:50:34 it already does Sep 01 20:50:41 though WIP Sep 01 20:50:42 but it's far from complete for n900 Sep 01 20:50:44 indeed Sep 01 20:50:47 #meego Sep 01 20:50:51 meego isn't even out yet Sep 01 20:50:51 GNUtoo|laptop, linux is far from complete Sep 01 20:51:03 yeah, it can't do the dishes Sep 01 20:51:05 with a n900 you get about the same experience you get from linux on desktop Sep 01 20:51:07 #meego-arm even Sep 01 20:51:09 it's up to you to decide if that's a bad thing Sep 01 20:51:14 its just the collective best intentions of a few people to make it work Sep 01 20:51:35 * lcuk defines few as being in their thousands :P Sep 01 20:51:37 jacekowski, image worked Sep 01 20:51:43 it didn't give a crap about changes Sep 01 20:51:44 kerio, I want the same experience as any oe device Sep 01 20:51:57 * MohammadAG checks if /home is 3GBs Sep 01 20:52:00 oe device? Sep 01 20:52:01 yay Nokia hands Sep 01 20:52:07 I know meego/maemo is great for a general user Sep 01 20:52:13 but I'm rather a developper Sep 01 20:52:13 it's really not Sep 01 20:52:18 kerio, openembedded Sep 01 20:52:27 awesome quote Sep 01 20:52:27 the day after i bought it i was reconfiguring half the keyboard Sep 01 20:52:31 this is racism, why isn't israel in the regions list Sep 01 20:52:35 GNUtoo|laptop, please can I use that Sep 01 20:52:42 " I know meego/maemo is great for a general user Sep 01 20:52:42 but I'm rather a developper" Sep 01 20:52:48 GNUtoo|laptop: have you talked with mickey and paul and dos and jama? Sep 01 20:53:00 and there we have it, we have crossed the line! Sep 01 20:53:05 lcuk, if you want to use my quote, yes feel free Sep 01 20:53:14 GNUtoo|laptop, i am joking Sep 01 20:53:19 holy crap this is fast Sep 01 20:53:22 DocScrutinizer, was there a meeting? Sep 01 20:53:36 MohammadAG, maemo is fast Sep 01 20:53:36 :P Sep 01 20:53:39 DocScrutinizer, I've talked only to morphis and the n900 guy Sep 01 20:53:50 2.81GBs available, yay Sep 01 20:53:56 there was a sort of a project kickoff: OM/SHR on N900 Sep 01 20:54:02 ah? Sep 01 20:54:04 I missed that Sep 01 20:54:16 I'll go in openmoko-cdevel Sep 01 20:54:27 all four got their N900 and are about to port away :-D Sep 01 20:54:51 DocScrutinizer, were they donated? Sep 01 20:55:17 yep - pfuuu, after lots of pushing :-D Sep 01 20:55:23 ok Sep 01 20:55:29 was it yesterday? Sep 01 20:55:39 because I was absent yesterday Sep 01 20:55:40 Monday/yesterday Sep 01 20:55:54 ok Sep 01 20:55:55 DHL delivered Sep 01 20:55:58 nice Sep 01 20:56:31 GNUtoo|laptop: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue Sep 01 20:57:33 should I add myself somewhere or there is no chance? I'm too late I bet Sep 01 20:57:52 in french they say that I'm comming after the battle Sep 01 20:58:37 so, my N900 has bluetooth and an IR transceiver. does this mean I can use a wiimote with it accurately? :) Sep 01 20:58:53 GNUtoo|laptop: yep :-/ Sep 01 20:58:54 lupine_85, ? Sep 01 20:58:59 the wiimote has a camera? Sep 01 20:59:09 it's essentially an IR camera, yeah Sep 01 20:59:24 it reports its position relative to an IR source via bluetooth Sep 01 20:59:25 ie specifically not an IR transceiver (which N900 doesnt have anyway) Sep 01 20:59:26 GNUtoo|laptop: though you never know Sep 01 20:59:31 ok Sep 01 20:59:44 and what about developer discount? Sep 01 20:59:46 is there one? Sep 01 21:00:01 *shrug* Sep 01 21:00:29 I can't think of a /use/ for it that'd be relevant to an N900, but it sounds fun Sep 01 21:00:41 buy it used Sep 01 21:00:43 it's no big deal Sep 01 21:00:46 It doesn't quite. Sep 01 21:01:16 lupine_85, :) watch this silly video Sep 01 21:01:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM Sep 01 21:01:25 It reports the position of the brightest n IR sources in the field of view, and the accel orientation Sep 01 21:01:26 lupine_85: N900 has IR TX only, no RX Sep 01 21:01:35 that's a bit odd Sep 01 21:01:40 And you need >1 IR source for orientation. Sep 01 21:02:06 lupine_85, can you tell out how it works? Sep 01 21:02:45 like a reversed version of http://johnnylee.net/projects/wii/ Sep 01 21:02:58 DocScrutinizer, I wonder about something, if n900 has lots of devs for SHR maybe they will be enough Sep 01 21:03:00 (the whiteboard version) Sep 01 21:03:04 and I should go palm-pre Sep 01 21:03:05 lupine_85, yeah Sep 01 21:03:11 (hence inverted..) Sep 01 21:03:30 it uses a triangle of leds Sep 01 21:03:34 GNUtoo|laptop: nah, you should join the N900 effort Sep 01 21:03:36 its the sort of thing the wiimote does Sep 01 21:03:46 DocScrutinizer, why? really? Sep 01 21:04:08 where should/can I help on n900 port Sep 01 21:04:12 GNUtoo|laptop: talk with mickey Sep 01 21:04:15 ok Sep 01 21:04:25 GNUtoo|laptop, because #maemo is fun! Sep 01 21:05:09 bbs Sep 01 21:05:22 well, MNZ - I don't think GNUtoo|laptop will be much involved in #maemo, when porting SHR to N900 Sep 01 21:05:30 DocScrindeed Sep 01 21:05:34 oops Sep 01 21:05:41 *indeed Sep 01 21:05:44 regex matched :-P Sep 01 21:06:09 DocScrutinizer, mickeyl is not there at the moment Sep 01 21:06:20 do you know the reason why I should join the n900 port Sep 01 21:06:22 I can't help Sep 01 21:06:25 *I know a bit vala Sep 01 21:06:31 *I know a bit kernel Sep 01 21:06:34 *I know oe Sep 01 21:06:54 but I'm not sure reverse-engineering is for me Sep 01 21:06:59 all good points to join N900-SHR, rather than go for a crappy pre Sep 01 21:07:18 GNUtoo|laptop: there's no RE needed Sep 01 21:07:25 really? Sep 01 21:07:36 if no RE I join as soon as I come back in italy Sep 01 21:07:39 N900 is just open enough so you don't need RE Sep 01 21:07:58 (mostly :-P) Sep 01 21:08:46 funny we were just discussing pulseaudio a few hours ago :P Sep 01 21:09:25 there's at least 4 OS running on N900 right now, and 2 of them are actually doing phonecalls now Sep 01 21:09:37 maemo and nitdroid? Sep 01 21:09:42 i thought meego did calls too Sep 01 21:09:47 duh, so make that 5 Sep 01 21:09:53 wait, what Sep 01 21:10:04 maemo fremantle, nitdroid, meego and? Sep 01 21:10:19 gentoo, buntkuh Sep 01 21:10:31 ooh Sep 01 21:10:33 right Sep 01 21:11:21 DEBIAN Sep 01 21:11:27 -caps Sep 01 21:11:36 qole has a nice easydebian doesnt he Sep 01 21:11:38 nah, DEBIAN should always be in all caps Sep 01 21:11:44 six, who got more ? :-D Sep 01 21:11:46 that allows maemo phone calls still Sep 01 21:11:46 and we were talking about OSes Sep 01 21:11:48 weren't we Sep 01 21:11:56 i think mer was based on ubuntu Sep 01 21:12:06 does mer run on n900? Sep 01 21:12:22 yes i believe so Sep 01 21:12:30 i dunno which version anymore Sep 01 21:12:36 7 Sep 01 21:12:52 i have seen amiga emulators and dos emulators :P Sep 01 21:12:58 LOL Sep 01 21:13:07 DocScrutinizer: yeah but how many of those can run concurrently? Sep 01 21:13:12 I resisted that pun Sep 01 21:13:20 kerio, easydebian runs in a window Sep 01 21:13:30 easydebian is *not* a OS :| Sep 01 21:13:35 and easymeego will as well if i read it correctly Sep 01 21:13:42 its debian :P Sep 01 21:13:47 why would i run something like "easymeego" Sep 01 21:13:59 because hardmeego is hard Sep 01 21:14:31 because ameego is hard..... isn't that what she said? Sep 01 21:14:39 well chroot isn't really an OS for this competition Sep 01 21:15:16 There is no especial reason you can't make it not a chroot Sep 01 21:15:43 missing system drivers Sep 01 21:15:47 For example - rip out all of the post-X-bringup stuff, and jam in the debian chroot in there. Sep 01 21:15:54 And you've got it mostly. Sep 01 21:16:27 "mostly" Sep 01 21:16:30 And yes - this is maeohmygodnowhathaveyoudonetocreatethisabominationian - not a clean merge. Sep 01 21:16:31 how's easy debian going to create a native /dev and /sys? Sep 01 21:16:40 with udev Sep 01 21:16:43 DocScrutinizer: copy scripts! what else? Sep 01 21:17:12 native? it's won't, mount --bind ftw Sep 01 21:17:30 I mean by jam the chroot in - copy the bits of chroots into / - and simply have X start it Sep 01 21:17:33 * HarryS (H@harry.lu) has joined #maemo Sep 01 21:17:34 i think mer was based on ubuntu Sep 01 21:17:34 I think for a device it takes more than mkdev Sep 01 21:17:42 damn, copied an extra line Sep 01 21:17:46 Ubuntu 8.04 Sep 01 21:17:48 Basically - debian is another 'user' Sep 01 21:17:55 with a different xconfig Sep 01 21:18:10 56 minutes to copy over 21GBs... so slow Sep 01 21:18:16 brb Sep 01 21:18:21 MohammadAG, try it over wifi ;) Sep 01 21:18:44 lcuk: i was copying my old HDDs to new NAS Sep 01 21:18:48 lcuk: over wifi Sep 01 21:18:52 took me two weeks Sep 01 21:18:55 2T of data Sep 01 21:19:14 well little bit more than 1T Sep 01 21:19:23 yyou shouldv left off the binary 1s Sep 01 21:19:27 it wouldv copied quicker Sep 01 21:20:43 /dev/md2 1.9T 1.2T 664G 65% /shares/Data Sep 01 21:21:09 ARM, gigabit NIC Sep 01 21:21:23 128M of ram Sep 01 21:21:28 why use wifi then? Sep 01 21:21:32 whoooosh Sep 01 21:22:18 because i had no cable Sep 01 21:22:32 well, i had a cable and plugs Sep 01 21:22:53 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly why dbus-scripting acted up in such a "funny" way. Sep 01 21:23:21 jacekowski: wait, what Sep 01 21:23:24 A WEEK? Sep 01 21:23:30 2 weeks Sep 01 21:23:37 i can transfer 250gb in less than a day Sep 01 21:23:47 via wifi Sep 01 21:23:55 b/g? Sep 01 21:24:00 half n Sep 01 21:24:00 lcuk, wifi eh? Sep 01 21:24:03 (2.4) Sep 01 21:24:07 while still using it for other stuff Sep 01 21:24:08 the N900 supports G only afaik Sep 01 21:24:14 (well, g and b, but still) Sep 01 21:24:14 yeah :( Sep 01 21:24:16 ok wtf Sep 01 21:24:23 who uses b anyway Sep 01 21:24:25 my wifi can push 2M/s at most Sep 01 21:24:33 and it's b/g Sep 01 21:24:35 kerio, sony, PSP Sep 01 21:24:36 and just for the laughs and giggles - if anybody wants to investigate why you can't start the device via powerbutton, when you powered it down correctly while a forkbomb was eating up all processtable entries... you're welcome Sep 01 21:24:38 up to 54mbits Sep 01 21:25:00 DocScrutinizer: because it doesn't shut down Sep 01 21:25:01 I downloaded a file with 20MB/s speeds over gigabit Sep 01 21:25:07 actually, the other PC was a 10/100 Sep 01 21:25:08 ipod nano in the us $149 (116 euros), ipod nano in france: 169 euros ($216) Sep 01 21:25:20 racists Sep 01 21:25:23 crashanddie: and this surprises you why? Sep 01 21:25:25 apple sux Sep 01 21:25:25 they should do what sony did Sep 01 21:25:31 s/did/does Sep 01 21:25:38 what does sony do? Sep 01 21:25:42 jacekowski: was my idea as well, but then why would it start with unlit NOLO screen on plugin of charger? Sep 01 21:25:46 SpeedEvil: well, usually they keep the same digits, different currency -- that I was used to Sep 01 21:25:48 $149 in the US = 149 euros in the EU, 149 pounds in the UK Sep 01 21:25:51 crashanddie: also - note thatr import duty and VAT is a largish slice of that. Sep 01 21:25:53 now if only they did that to yens Sep 01 21:26:05 crashanddie: do you know that you have to add sales tax to price they give you on US website? Sep 01 21:26:14 jacekowski: I didn't Sep 01 21:26:19 that would make a lot more sense then Sep 01 21:26:24 nevermind, I'll stfu Sep 01 21:26:26 yeah i went to shop in US Sep 01 21:26:29 149$ -> 216$ is a lot Sep 01 21:26:34 to buy stuff for $100 Sep 01 21:26:58 and i had to pay like 10-20$ more Sep 01 21:27:16 because they don't tell you about that tax Sep 01 21:27:20 yeah but that's 65$ of taxes on 149$ Sep 01 21:27:25 SpeedEvil & jacekowski: the website says "44 eur tax on the 8gb nano" Sep 01 21:27:40 crashanddie: in addition? Sep 01 21:27:45 nope, included Sep 01 21:27:53 EU law forces the price to include the taxes Sep 01 21:28:00 Unless it's B2B Sep 01 21:28:09 (or at least mention when it's before tax) Sep 01 21:28:38 yeah, i hate when people do it like that Sep 01 21:28:55 give you price before/after taxes depending on what's better for them Sep 01 21:29:48 and then if you think about it Sep 01 21:30:15 jacekowski: (forkbomb) just test it, it's painless Sep 01 21:30:54 19 years of commercial cellphones Sep 01 21:30:57 when you get paid for example £30k/year then there is 20% income tax + 11% of NI just before it ever reaches you Sep 01 21:31:22 Corporation tax too. Sep 01 21:31:32 9.3k of taxes there Sep 01 21:31:38 then add VAT Sep 01 21:31:38 I was about to buy a nano right now Sep 01 21:31:43 * SpeedEvil puts on a track by Paul Hardcastle. Sep 01 21:31:51 another 20% Sep 01 21:32:12 and it works out that over 50% of your wages are taxes straight away Sep 01 21:32:15 then I thought: "When the fuck am I going to use it? I'm driving a motorbike -- no music; and all the rest of the time I have a laptop or good sound system" Sep 01 21:32:21 then council tax Sep 01 21:32:23 duty Sep 01 21:32:30 crashanddie: yeah. Sep 01 21:32:33 some other smaller taxes Sep 01 21:32:45 jacekowski: in the UK, someone who earns over 150k a year pays 62.5% taxes Sep 01 21:32:47 crashanddie - my n900 is actually quite adequate for me as an mp3 player. Sep 01 21:32:51 what was the model number of the first nokia cellphone? Sep 01 21:33:14 * lcuk wants a picture really Sep 01 21:33:21 crashanddie: only from the amount above 150k Sep 01 21:33:25 but in all the history of cellphones i see damned motos Sep 01 21:33:30 jacekowski: no, on average Sep 01 21:33:44 jacekowski: err, sorry, yes, obviously Sep 01 21:33:47 ahhhhhhah Sep 01 21:33:48 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gallery/2010/feb/14/mobile-phones-gadgets-iphone#/?picture=357620345&index=2 Sep 01 21:34:02 lcuk, the first nokia just spawned Sep 01 21:34:05 Mobira Cityman Sep 01 21:34:23 crashanddie: all taxes or just income + ni + something? Sep 01 21:34:30 the 3310 was a fucking revolution Sep 01 21:34:31 jacekowski: all taxes Sep 01 21:34:36 but it's too high anyways Sep 01 21:34:39 jacekowski: hang on, I blogged about it Sep 01 21:34:40 Das Nokia 1011, das erste GSM-Mobiltelefon von Nokia, wurde im November 1992 in den Markt eingeführt. Sep 01 21:34:42 kerio, 3310? Sep 01 21:34:47 you were late to the party :P Sep 01 21:34:49 nokia 3310/3330 Sep 01 21:35:02 3210 was the iconic one most people I ask remember Sep 01 21:35:16 crashanddie: and have you heard what colchester county councill plans to do Sep 01 21:35:24 http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Nokia_1011.jpg&filetimestamp=20100522224854 Sep 01 21:35:34 jacekowski: note the date: http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2009/05/high-taxes-are-on-horizon.html Sep 01 21:35:59 google gives the 6230 as its first hit on pictures for "nokia phone" Sep 01 21:36:24 crashanddie: build two million pounds gypsy traveller site in colchester Sep 01 21:36:27 for them to live there Sep 01 21:36:37 two million is nothing Sep 01 21:36:46 that's part of costs Sep 01 21:36:48 sounds like a good idea to me Sep 01 21:36:57 new houses were built close to there Sep 01 21:37:05 think about how value of this houses will drop Sep 01 21:37:07 thefts Sep 01 21:37:17 * lupine_85 notes there's a gypsy traveller site with permanent housing built about 10m from his hosue Sep 01 21:37:18 house* Sep 01 21:37:23 it's fine Sep 01 21:37:34 you must be one of them Sep 01 21:37:39 oh, quit snobbing Sep 01 21:37:53 they are already there Sep 01 21:37:58 on illegaly Sep 01 21:38:00 I'm neither Roma nor Irish traveller, but I can sympathize Sep 01 21:38:02 illegaly* Sep 01 21:38:26 and well, stuff has gone missing Sep 01 21:38:43 yes, that happens Sep 01 21:38:59 cheer up Sep 01 21:39:14 besides, why they are supposed to get houses from my taxes Sep 01 21:39:18 the 3310 was the one that sold the most Sep 01 21:39:28 but when i want house i have to pay for it myself? Sep 01 21:39:32 3310 is awesome. Sep 01 21:39:35 kerio, if only it was on the ovi store Sep 01 21:39:42 Housebuilding in the UK is fucked. Sep 01 21:39:47 it really is Sep 01 21:40:01 we dont have much room left for houses Sep 01 21:40:03 lcuk: hehe Sep 01 21:40:05 We either need to build about 5 million houses, or share. Sep 01 21:40:07 travellers camps for the roma is basically another form of council / social housing Sep 01 21:40:07 i'd buy a 3310 Sep 01 21:40:20 kerio, i just made a point about it in #meego Sep 01 21:40:26 lots of people would Sep 01 21:40:30 and I'm mostly for it. it has a ghettoization effect but with a culture so different, I'm not sure you can avoid it Sep 01 21:40:33 And we need to just fucking stop this 'houses as investment' ideal. Sep 01 21:40:34 a full emulated original style nokia Sep 01 21:40:37 on their n900 Sep 01 21:40:40 council / social housing should be gone Sep 01 21:40:46 surprise right-winger Sep 01 21:40:46 with replacable covers no less! Sep 01 21:40:55 either everybody gets it Sep 01 21:40:57 or nobody Sep 01 21:41:01 we should nationalize the housing market, yes Sep 01 21:41:15 jacekowski, do you own your house or live with parents? Sep 01 21:41:20 or other Sep 01 21:41:20 in the absence of that (free market, etc) all we can do is subsidize the lower end - safety-netted free-market economy Sep 01 21:41:21 both Sep 01 21:41:26 lcuk: no, i meant, a physical 3310 Sep 01 21:41:29 no biggie Sep 01 21:41:37 kerio, indeed but for modern generation :) Sep 01 21:41:41 no, a 3310 Sep 01 21:41:45 hell - a nokia app on the iphone would be awesome Sep 01 21:41:47 give it a e-ink display Sep 01 21:41:55 and a better battery Sep 01 21:42:00 but leave snake where it is Sep 01 21:42:05 ++ Sep 01 21:42:09 lcuk: i bought a house just to rent it out Sep 01 21:42:17 kerio: the nokia 1100 or whatever it's callred isn't actually that far off. Sep 01 21:42:20 lcuk: and get somebody to pay for my mortgage Sep 01 21:42:43 jacekowski, the money markets got this way because of things like that Sep 01 21:42:52 we have a couple of houses Sep 01 21:43:00 we're actually paying the rent on this one Sep 01 21:43:21 kerio: imagine that you are paying for somebody elses mortgage Sep 01 21:43:30 i'm not paying for anything Sep 01 21:43:36 my parents are Sep 01 21:43:41 i'm just waiting for my inheritance Sep 01 21:43:43 :3 Sep 01 21:43:55 sweet, delicious buy-to-let. grr to broken housing market Sep 01 21:44:19 no, that's money Sep 01 21:44:39 jacekowski, what happens when your tennant moves out? Sep 01 21:44:58 then i can still afford to pay for it myself Sep 01 21:45:17 or he can find another one Sep 01 21:45:19 reasonable enough Sep 01 21:45:20 besides, it took me some time to find house Sep 01 21:45:22 and he'll still have a house anyway Sep 01 21:45:32 2 things are very rarely wrong Sep 01 21:45:36 buying gold and buying buildings Sep 01 21:45:40 and it's not in a place that people would avoid Sep 01 21:45:57 so i'm not too worried about it being empty for too long time Sep 01 21:46:12 have you guys heard of the concept of Perpetual Traveler? Sep 01 21:46:21 The price of housing is butt-fucking large sectors of society. Sep 01 21:46:36 totally requires additional nationalisation Sep 01 21:46:45 Unfortunately, I'm insulated from it, due to inheritance. Sep 01 21:47:03 Nokia is currently the world's largest digital camera manufacturer, as the sales of its camera-equipped mobile phones have exceeded those of any conventional camera manufacturer. Sep 01 21:47:17 (from http://funlok.com/index.php/information/1o-interesting-facts-about-nokia.html ) Sep 01 21:47:34 oO Sep 01 21:47:39 "A number of Dutch colleges are considering legal action against the publisher of a move-in guide for new freshmen, after the company included an ad recruiting students for jobs as online sex workers." Sep 01 21:47:39 what about iCrap? Sep 01 21:48:12 lcuk: and the quality still fails to beat entry level P&S cameras Sep 01 21:48:26 http://forum.nuevasync.com/forum/posts/list/562.page Sep 01 21:48:49 crashanddie: my first digital camera wasn't even close to n900 camera Sep 01 21:48:51 1.5Mpix Sep 01 21:48:54 4x zoom Sep 01 21:49:01 and sooooooooooooo much noise Sep 01 21:49:08 and long startup time Sep 01 21:49:12 I didn't say first camera from 20 years ago Sep 01 21:49:17 the n900 camera is outstanding and has been with me for more occasions than my old dedicated camera Sep 01 21:49:22 that was less than 5 years ago Sep 01 21:49:22 basically because I have phone all the time Sep 01 21:49:30 The n900 camera is great - for a phone camera. Sep 01 21:49:56 But being in a package 6mm deep, and 12mm across means that certain optical compromises have to be made. Sep 01 21:50:03 crashanddie, one thing N900 can do that any P&S device cant really: be upgraded Sep 01 21:50:10 Whcih reminds me - I still need to print out a pic. Sep 01 21:50:12 lcuk: eh? Sep 01 21:50:13 fcam and the other stuff coming through is unheard of Sep 01 21:50:15 lcuk: It really can't. Sep 01 21:50:18 lcuk: Oh Sep 01 21:50:25 lcuk: I thought you meant hw Sep 01 21:50:27 lcuk: I've had more updates on my LX3 than I've had updates on the N900 Sep 01 21:50:44 You can in principle swap out the n900 camera Sep 01 21:50:48 for a better one Sep 01 21:50:50 hardly P&S? Sep 01 21:50:56 that requires finding a better one in the space Sep 01 21:50:59 However Sep 01 21:51:07 lcuk: it is a P&S. Prosumer maybe, but P&S nonetheless Sep 01 21:51:13 A mugen battery, with a nicer camera module would be interesting. Sep 01 21:51:24 well, it's probably not a camera problem Sep 01 21:51:30 crashanddie, the dedicated camera costs £300 Sep 01 21:51:32 but optics problem Sep 01 21:51:49 SpeedEvil, indeed it would Sep 01 21:51:50 jacekowski: same difference Sep 01 21:51:57 did you see the n810 mobile conversion mod by the way? Sep 01 21:52:05 lcuk: no. Sep 01 21:52:06 awesome thread and attention to detail Sep 01 21:52:08 you can't gather enough photons in such a tiny package Sep 01 21:52:08 just a mo Sep 01 21:52:10 ill find the thread Sep 01 21:52:23 lcuk: I have almost stopped looking at hardware I don't own. Sep 01 21:52:33 Arkenoi: and you linked to that because? Sep 01 21:52:40 lcuk: Simply as it means I have less time to do stuff I do own. Sep 01 21:53:34 crashanddie, maybe somebody else has a hint. others do use nuevasync and it works well for them. at least it is more reliable than m.google.com Sep 01 21:54:17 SpeedEvil, Sep 01 21:54:19 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43185&page=2 Sep 01 21:54:23 this page has most pictures Sep 01 21:54:28 the guy is converting n810 to phone Sep 01 21:54:29 SpeedEvil: ping Sep 01 21:54:33 added sim card and stuff Sep 01 21:54:37 DocScrutinizer: pong Sep 01 21:54:43 Argh - stupid client. Sep 01 21:54:45 pm Sep 01 21:54:48 any luck with post office? Sep 01 21:55:24 Arkenoi: ah, sorry, didn't realise you had the issue Sep 01 21:59:53 Hmm. Sep 01 22:00:03 The n900 price in the UK store is crashing. Sep 01 22:00:16 Was 499, then 459, now 389 Sep 01 22:00:26 (shop.nokia.co.uk) Sep 01 22:00:53 that has dropped a bit Sep 01 22:01:05 duh Sep 01 22:01:07 I guess they've made their money Sep 01 22:01:19 Or they're about to disco itr. Sep 01 22:01:37 Though I'd not expect that quite yet. Sep 01 22:02:02 N900i :-P Sep 01 22:02:21 "now with real USB, that lasts" Sep 01 22:02:24 n900 mini Sep 01 22:02:32 eeeeew Sep 01 22:03:16 It's a joint effort with BMW. It's a n900, with a small engine, and 4 wheels. Sep 01 22:03:26 what's the best way to route my computer audio stream to multiple devices (linux phone, server, laptop) and get synchronized playback? Sep 01 22:03:28 It has a Michael Cain ringtone sample. Sep 01 22:03:33 heh Sep 01 22:04:15 pupnik: no way it would be synchronised Sep 01 22:04:28 pupnik: RTP Sep 01 22:04:33 pupnik: linux can't even sync it if it's on same computer via two different sound cards Sep 01 22:04:47 pupnik: or PA over network Sep 01 22:05:32 hmm Sep 01 22:07:00 pupnik: you should try same internet radio station concurrently on those devices, and probably not expect your own setup to get any better 'sync' Sep 01 22:08:31 nokia has echo-cancellation that can detect a shift in a signal from microphone Sep 01 22:08:43 could use the same algorithm to detect skew in different playback devices Sep 01 22:09:08 err, yup Sep 01 22:09:18 but it uses some constants to know delays in hardware Sep 01 22:09:18 something like NTP Sep 01 22:09:35 and it then matches signal from microphone with signal from speakers Sep 01 22:09:44 That stuff is surprisingly difficult to get right. Sep 01 22:09:58 actually it does no assumption at all about delay Sep 01 22:10:08 you would need rough idea where are you with your delay Sep 01 22:10:20 except it to be in sub second of course Sep 01 22:10:22 and with that amount of buffering it would be hard Sep 01 22:10:28 For example, in most consumer hardware, the microphone and speakers don't run off the same clock. Sep 01 22:11:18 from the other side Sep 01 22:11:31 if you could use one device to add little bit more delay or remove Sep 01 22:11:40 so you don't have to compensate there Sep 01 22:11:46 you just compensate for differences Sep 01 22:11:57 it would be possible but i'm not sure how stable Sep 01 22:12:10 pupnik: you could use some bluetooth audio service or VLC has brocasting ability Sep 01 22:12:23 i think that vlc will soon be available for maemo Sep 01 22:12:32 based on what? manual tuning is simple, I even did that with 2 CD players which is real fun and usually keeps sync for whole CD Sep 01 22:15:02 but honestly, what means 'synced' if the 2 devices are e.g 30m distance from each other Sep 01 22:16:21 for each device the other one appears to be 100ms late Sep 01 22:17:31 so in sync depends largely on your definition of the requirements Sep 01 22:20:42 Hi. Just tried to revive my N810 to give my wife a way to listen to music on her trip tomorrow, but Canola won't play anything at all. Any idea what I might try to fix it? Sep 01 22:21:05 Do any sounds work? Sep 01 22:21:29 DocScrutinizer: there's no sync in the real world Sep 01 22:21:33 lrn2relativity Sep 01 22:21:35 It just hangs in the "Now playing" screen, showing no title information. I can go back, but that only works once. As soon as I'm seeing the list of tracks Canola is frozen (can only kill it) Sep 01 22:21:43 SpeedEvil: Do keyboard clicks count? Sep 01 22:21:44 sync has no meaning Sep 01 22:22:42 flash it Sep 01 22:24:01 SpeedEvil: Media player plays mp3s just fine, yes. Sep 01 22:24:06 ah Sep 01 22:24:14 Canola hangs at the same files.. =( Sep 01 22:24:18 umm - if media player plays what's the problem Sep 01 22:24:23 remove and reinstall canola? Sep 01 22:25:03 The problem is that media player sucks and she's going to have trouble using that. Sep 01 22:25:33 ah Sep 01 22:26:15 for me canola sucks and I don't get how to operate it, but de gustibus... Sep 01 22:26:24 Heh Sep 01 22:26:39 It's the single most useful app on maemo for me.. Love the UI Sep 01 22:27:15 yeah, greedy UI that doesn't even allow to go to homescreen Sep 01 22:27:32 Hm? Not? Pressing the home button works for me? Sep 01 22:27:49 there's no home button on N900 Sep 01 22:27:56 Ah.. Sep 01 22:28:11 Did they update Canola for the N900? Sep 01 22:28:27 Or are we talking about the "Who could've guessed that the button might be missing in the future" version I have? Sep 01 22:28:32 so screw that candy UI that doesn't follow standards Sep 01 22:29:22 moin Sep 01 23:19:49 GeneralAntilles, GAN900 http://www.phun.org/newspics/funny_friday/4808.jpg Sep 01 23:24:33 b-man`, do you still have your ubuntu build you once did Sep 01 23:25:18 01:02 <+pupnik> it's rather difficult to end a tyrannical government Sep 01 23:25:29 01:20 < torment> they should have an app for that Sep 01 23:30:50 pupnik, normal chans for you i see Sep 01 23:31:04 * lcuk digs into source Sep 01 23:31:20 i thought it was funny Sep 01 23:31:40 probably a stupid question, but... is the extra microsd card supposed to be accessible via usb? Sep 01 23:31:45 well its standard answer to everthing Sep 01 23:31:51 teilzeitstudent, i believe so Sep 01 23:32:00 since n900 offers 2 devices when i plug it in Sep 01 23:32:06 err drives Sep 01 23:32:18 well under windows i get 2 drives as well... under linux only one Sep 01 23:32:26 but both get unmounted on the device Sep 01 23:32:49 teilzeitstudent, i don't think the n900 can distinguish host os side Sep 01 23:32:53 so it offers both Sep 01 23:33:01 and normally i think both are available in linux Sep 01 23:33:07 but that will depend on the config Sep 01 23:33:10 * lcuk checks ubuntu Sep 01 23:34:17 /media/nokia n900 Sep 01 23:34:33 /media/043a-b1a4 Sep 01 23:34:41 both available (strange name tho) Sep 01 23:34:46 mh. I only get the /media/nokia n900 Sep 01 23:36:28 do you have a microsd in your phone? under windows i always get 2 new drives, even when i do not even select storage or pc suite mode Sep 01 23:36:31 teilzeitstudent, unplug usb Sep 01 23:36:34 and check in file manager Sep 01 23:36:39 whether both show up Sep 01 23:36:56 they do.. in mount they are both listed. Sep 01 23:37:04 i didnt ask in mount Sep 01 23:37:26 that mount was additional info. both internal and card show up when unplugged Sep 01 23:37:47 dunno then, which linux are you using Sep 01 23:39:11 gentoo. either i forgot to include some kernel config, a udev rule is missing or gnome messes up. Sep 01 23:39:42 teilzeitstudent, check dmesg or equiv and see what it says, but you are likely right Sep 01 23:40:53 could you do a "cat /usr/src/linux/.config | grep -i usb" and post the output to pastebin? Sep 01 23:41:19 ah nvm. too much info on std kernels i guess. Sep 01 23:41:36 ah well thanks, i'm off to happy kernel compiling :p Sep 01 23:45:41 hya DocScrutinizer and lcuk ..well 2 days without runing any game emulation apps and zero reboots.... Sep 01 23:46:25 hmm, hat's new in that? Sep 01 23:46:27 ah your flash is ok now? Sep 01 23:46:43 oh, the 'borked' flash Sep 01 23:48:00 zeltak, thats ok for a start Sep 01 23:54:22 Dr. House is such a bastard Sep 01 23:54:24 yeah DocScrutinizer the borked flash :) Sep 01 23:55:00 so am wondering if i should test it somemore since if the flash is really borked i might as well get it replaced while the warrenty is still active Sep 02 00:03:01 zeltak, if its working when you return it what can they do Sep 02 00:03:41 mnz hes not that bad Sep 02 00:04:52 lcuk, he is a complete and utter bastard, with intermittent bursts of ethics. Quite entertaining though Sep 02 00:06:18 lcuk: what do you mean? if the flash memory has bad sectors arent they obliged to replace it? Sep 02 00:06:24 DocScrutinizer, are the plugins for xchat easy to write Sep 02 00:06:39 zeltak: no Sep 02 00:06:50 zeltak, i dont know anything about warranties except for when i returned computer stuff years ago Sep 02 00:06:54 How borked do you mean? Sep 02 00:07:00 and my motherboard worked for them and they charged me a restocking fee Sep 02 00:07:11 Bad blocks in ubifs are normal Sep 02 00:08:58 ubifs? SpeedEvil: i only get errors when i run game emulators Sep 02 00:09:25 SpeedEvil: http://pastebin.ca/1929149 Sep 02 00:10:03 Are you overclocking? Sep 02 00:10:06 grr why is ff so slow with big(ish) pastebins Sep 02 00:10:30 SpeedEvil: no and never did Sep 02 00:11:06 Ok - that's a clear HW error IMO Sep 02 00:11:11 But. Sep 02 00:11:26 You need ideally some way to provoke that in normal use. Sep 02 00:12:21 thats the thing SpeedEvil it only happens when runing games in the snes emulator (so far..) Sep 02 00:12:31 umm Sep 02 00:12:56 does dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/dev/zero error too? Sep 02 00:13:04 - it will take a coupler of hours Sep 02 00:13:06 couple Sep 02 00:13:44 yeah did that (maxed out a 4gb) with no errors Sep 02 00:14:19 ewww. Sep 02 00:14:29 (should not max out) Sep 02 00:14:32 oh Sep 02 00:14:35 hmm. Sep 02 00:14:49 you could install gnu dd - I forget the package Sep 02 00:14:50 isnt there a 4gb max per file on fat32? Sep 02 00:15:03 im guessing the emmc is fat32 right? Sep 02 00:15:06 yes - that's irrelevant if it's the underlying devcie Sep 02 00:15:07 no Sep 02 00:15:12 the emmc is a block device Sep 02 00:15:21 It has 4 partitions, one of which is vfat Sep 02 00:15:35 ahhh i see Sep 02 00:16:24 so when the error is on mmcblk0 what partition is it? Sep 02 00:17:06 the kernel reports the read error Sep 02 00:17:22 It doesn't report what the device it's on is. Sep 02 00:17:52 its so wierd it only happens under emulator games..normal games (angry birds etc..work fine..) Sep 02 00:18:14 Well - it may be that where the games are installed has block errors Sep 02 00:18:49 mmmm...you mean the roms or the actuall game binaries? Sep 02 00:18:53 yes Sep 02 00:19:27 yes which one lol? Sep 02 00:19:50 either Sep 02 00:20:37 ahh i see :) but i reflashes twice and still had same issue..how can the binary files be written again to the exact same place.. Sep 02 00:21:39 After this happens - can you acccess any files on the mmc? Sep 02 00:21:47 i wonder if the emulator(s?) do something not kosher... Sep 02 00:22:15 Umm. Sep 02 00:22:29 It's not impossible. Sep 02 00:22:55 It shouldn't be screwing with anything that will cause that sort of errors though Sep 02 00:23:01 Also - insrtall syslog Sep 02 00:23:10 SpeedEvil: well when it happens the machine reboots but after that things are back to normal Sep 02 00:23:11 are the block numbers always the same Sep 02 00:23:36 SpeedEvil: the errors you saw were from the syslog Sep 02 00:24:21 I mean - are the block numbers constant Sep 02 00:24:45 ahhh dunno ill have to install the emulator agian..ill do that later today :) Sep 02 00:49:24 Hello Sep 02 00:49:28 How to synch with google calendar?! Sep 02 00:50:33 lolcat: mfe Sep 02 00:50:44 mfe? Sep 02 00:55:58 lolcat: mail for exchange Sep 02 01:01:05 oo Sep 02 01:01:24 but google != exchange Sep 02 01:06:53 guys..out of curiosity which folders do you backup (.config, /home/user etc..)? Sep 02 01:14:49 sorry got disconnected Sep 02 01:18:38 zeltak: I dont Sep 02 01:47:11 Where there a whole bunch of updates for maemo released today? Sep 02 01:49:29 The application manager says there are no updates but if I do apt-get upgrade there are about 41 libraries that need to be upgraded. What should I do? Sep 02 01:54:29 * peb is gone. Gone since Wed Sep 1 11:44:00 2010 Sep 02 02:05:34 * SpeedEvil is gone. Gone since Jan 1 1970 0:00. Sep 02 02:07:18 SpeedEvil: ping Sep 02 02:08:50 ? Sep 02 02:09:50 should I upgrade libraries using apt-get upgrade? Sep 02 02:09:55 or is that a bad idea? Sep 02 02:09:56 SpeedEvil: only since the epoch? Sep 02 02:10:06 you were born on the epoch? Sep 02 02:10:09 If you were, that'd be epic. Sep 02 02:10:12 epic epoch. Sep 02 02:10:34 No. Sep 02 02:10:54 I was just irritated by pebs silly enter message. Sep 02 02:10:56 i am date +%s old. Sep 02 02:11:22 I figured. Sep 02 02:11:33 But my sarcasm knows no bounds. Sep 02 02:11:46 Because, surely, somewhere, there's a geek with that birthday? Sep 02 02:11:54 … Sep 02 02:11:54 Damn, if i had that birthday Sep 02 02:12:02 I'm too young. Sep 02 02:12:04 On my resume, that'd be the #1 item. Sep 02 02:12:10 1283393393 doesn't parse as a birthday Sep 02 02:12:11 I was born on the Epoch, mofo! Sep 02 02:12:19 luke-jr: lrn2format Sep 02 02:12:25 SpeedEvil: me too. Sep 02 02:12:26 mortini: no u Sep 02 02:12:28 but, still. Sep 02 02:12:42 * nox- was born a few yrs before the epoch... Sep 02 02:12:44 mortini: POSIX date gives seconds for +%s Sep 02 02:12:54 :) Sep 02 02:13:19 also, you suck Sep 02 02:13:21 ☺ Sep 02 02:13:43 Should I upgrade libraries using apt-get update? Sep 02 02:13:58 pyther: no, you should install Gentoo and use emerge Sep 02 02:14:15 luke-jr: who, me or nox-? Sep 02 02:14:24 mortini: you Sep 02 02:14:29 thanks! Sep 02 02:14:38 luke-jr: well I figure gentoo on the N900 would be painful :P Sep 02 02:14:47 sadly, i can't use date to parse +%s output Sep 02 02:15:02 pyther: you figure wrong Sep 02 02:15:10 And i don't care to do anything more complex. Sep 02 02:15:52 I telnet to lambda.moo.mud.org port 8888 and eval ;ctime(1283393393) Sep 02 02:16:12 oh, it could be done, i'm sure, with python or perl Sep 02 02:16:21 sure Sep 02 02:16:25 but, doing really awkward things in shell scripts is awesome Sep 02 02:16:41 i once wrote a perl script that generated a shell script that generated c that generated asm Sep 02 02:17:19 I'm trying to break my habit of the 2000 line shell script, though Sep 02 02:17:48 luke-jr: really though I'm looking for a serious answer, why do I have libraries that can be upgraded? Is it because of extra-devel? If so, why are they in extra-devel? Sep 02 02:18:04 alias ctime='perl -e "use POSIX \"ctime\";print ctime @ARGV"' Sep 02 02:18:17 pyther: why wouldn't you/ Sep 02 02:19:12 luke-jr: why wouldn't I what? Sep 02 02:19:32 the don't show up in ham (I think that in Maemo's gui package manager) Sep 02 02:19:54 why wouldn't you have libraries that can be upgraded? Sep 02 02:20:58 luke-jr: well if I understand your question, typically if you have libraries that need to be upgraded that means your system isn't up-to-date **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 02 02:59:58 2010