**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 10 02:59:57 2010 Sep 10 05:20:14 luke-jr: huh, ipv6 is already deployed in some places? Sep 10 05:20:15 i mean, on isp level Sep 10 05:21:49 yes Sep 10 05:22:03 cool. sadly, not here Sep 10 05:23:10 my isp allegedly will give me /60 address range, and tmobile in the US has just started ipv6 trials Sep 10 05:23:44 /60? Sep 10 05:23:47 anyone with a phone that supports ipv6 is welcome to join it -- i'm running it on the n900 now, and it's oh so pointless Sep 10 05:24:06 i played around with an ipv6 tunnel to my home server, but thats about it Sep 10 05:24:43 Hmm, wesnoth doesnt want to start on my n900 Sep 10 05:24:58 err, not a /60 block Sep 10 05:25:03 a 60 address range, bleh Sep 10 06:15:37 hmmm, dunno how I feel about Nokia's new president/CEO being from the Microsoft business department ... Sep 10 06:17:22 heh Sep 10 06:17:35 as long as its not ballmer heh Sep 10 06:18:52 :D Sep 10 06:19:37 ballmer? didn't they fire him yet? Sep 10 06:22:45 there is no way to get access to the gsm audio under N900 is there? Sep 10 06:23:04 For dinner, free range chicken breast with french goat Feta pan fried with fettucini. Sep 10 06:23:25 total cost something like $13 a plate Sep 10 06:23:58 wait, $9 a plate Sep 10 06:27:33 aloha Sep 10 06:28:12 mornin' rmrfchik Sep 10 06:28:13 johnx: nokia hired new CEO? Sep 10 06:28:25 earlier today i had free range grass fed beef sirlon with free range chicken brown eggs Sep 10 06:28:31 that was hella good too Sep 10 06:28:32 rmrfchik, they did Sep 10 06:28:40 ooh wrong channel Sep 10 06:29:06 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703597204575482902836750116.html Sep 10 06:29:11 wtf "free range". can't translate Sep 10 06:29:28 genewitch, it's all fair if your brought enough for everyone :> Sep 10 06:30:17 rmrfchik, uhm, it refers to an animal that was raised outside, rather than kept in a tiny cage Sep 10 06:32:05 hmm. Sep 10 06:32:29 parmaster: not parmaster of underground, etc fame? Sep 10 06:35:58 soon N900 running windows mobile? http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/nokias-opk-is-out-replaced-by-stephen-elop-as-president-and-ce/ Sep 10 06:36:02 ;) Sep 10 06:36:23 hey, at least it's not ballmer, right? Sep 10 06:36:29 :) Sep 10 06:37:33 soon N900 running .net Sep 10 06:37:57 Does anybody know if its possible to access the GSM audio via a linux device? Sep 10 06:38:33 isn't there already mono for N900? Sep 10 06:38:51 orlok, sorry. not ignoring you, but I have no idea... Sep 10 06:39:04 thats cool :) Sep 10 06:42:31 orlok, is the goal to record calls or something like that ... ? Sep 10 06:43:18 anyways, there seems to be a call recorder: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/recaller/ Sep 10 06:43:25 so that might have some good code to look at Sep 10 06:43:27 johnx: no, but i was just looking at that Sep 10 06:43:29 yeah Sep 10 06:43:32 and its python, bonus Sep 10 06:43:36 i'll see how that does it Sep 10 06:43:52 work makes an embedded linux modem that does data over gsm Sep 10 06:44:45 over a gsm *voice* call? O_o; Sep 10 06:45:10 yeah Sep 10 06:45:11 i know Sep 10 06:45:14 dont ask :) Sep 10 06:45:36 just please tell me the encoding is base64 over morse :D Sep 10 06:45:40 ahh cool that app actually added a desktop widget to press Sep 10 06:45:51 haha, we joke about that stuff Sep 10 06:46:10 uuencode the data and write ot on a sheet of paper and fax it! yeah! Sep 10 06:46:54 never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of backup tapes :D Sep 10 06:47:28 yup :) Sep 10 06:47:36 though here in australia, we have panelvans Sep 10 06:47:44 gotta be at least an extra 50% capacity Sep 10 06:48:00 also lower latency, easier to load/unload Sep 10 06:48:25 well yeah. but I think idea is supposed to be that the station wagon is what the sys admin actually drives to work ;) Sep 10 06:51:07 johnx: panelvans are also great for fitting a pair of 19" racks side by side Sep 10 06:52:57 hey, I can fit a 19" rack in my wagon, just a slightly shorter one ... http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack Sep 10 06:54:16 johnx: http://gallery.oldholden.com/terence_overlander/1978+Holden+Overlander+Panelvan+327+chev/ Sep 10 06:57:06 hmm cool recaller seems to work Sep 10 06:57:24 not sure if its directlly accessing the gsm data or just using a microphone or something Sep 10 06:58:12 if i had to guess, I'd guess it's doing something with pulseaudio Sep 10 06:58:27 johnx: thanks for translation Sep 10 06:58:35 also: I now understand what you mean by panelvan ... :) Sep 10 06:59:48 like mad max's weekend car, before he got mad heh Sep 10 07:00:06 rmrfchik, no problem. "free range" is kind of a weird concept. Is there actually Russian phrase that means the same thing? Sep 10 07:12:35 johnx: hmmm. does free range mean "wild" or it does mean "not wild, but grown in, well, free range"? Sep 10 07:12:35 is there a ~/.xsessionrc equivalent on the n900? Sep 10 07:18:33 "It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. " Sep 10 07:21:59 "Disabled toilets. Ironically, the only toilets big enough to run around in." Sep 10 07:28:22 Morning, all Sep 10 07:30:14 tmo is down :/ Sep 10 07:30:15 o/ Jaffa Sep 10 07:30:22 fmc also. Sep 10 07:30:23 :) Sep 10 07:30:39 oo its up Sep 10 07:30:45 s/.*/all I have todo is down :/ Sep 10 07:31:39 .* not a valid regext? Sep 10 07:31:55 weird Sep 10 07:32:19 you have enclosed that in single quotes, right? Sep 10 07:32:46 (I'm assuming you are trying to sed -e that) Sep 10 07:32:58 i tryed to use infobot, no idea how it's implemented Sep 10 07:33:04 s/i/I/ Sep 10 07:33:04 merlin1991 meant: I tryed to use infobot, no idea how it's implemented Sep 10 07:33:11 just like that Sep 10 07:33:19 ok, let're test Sep 10 07:33:26 s/'re/'s/ Sep 10 07:33:27 gomiam meant: ok, let's test Sep 10 07:33:44 retsnting.... Sep 10 07:33:48 .* Sep 10 07:33:55 s/.*/asdf/ Sep 10 07:33:55 mece meant: asdf Sep 10 07:33:59 s/t.*t/test/ Sep 10 07:33:59 it's literal Sep 10 07:34:11 s/t.\*t/test/ Sep 10 07:34:19 abc Sep 10 07:34:27 s/\.\*/bca/ Sep 10 07:34:36 mmm... looks like it Sep 10 07:34:58 smaaal test Sep 10 07:35:03 s/[a]+/a/ Sep 10 07:35:08 yeah literal Sep 10 07:35:25 booooring ;) Sep 10 07:35:31 hehe Sep 10 07:40:52 anyone here who would would tell me not to buy a d-link switch? (I'm about to get one) Sep 10 07:41:49 personally i wouldnt buy one of their consumer-oriented switches Sep 10 07:42:25 but most preferences between the big three for home gear is more down to personal taste/experience than any real differences in the products Sep 10 07:42:56 the big three beeing? Sep 10 07:43:19 netgear, linksys, and d-link Sep 10 07:44:45 I dunno why d-link only sells the gay looking versions here Sep 10 07:46:09 I mean http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21hgcjjPU3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg vs http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31hjB0%2BRNNL.jpg Sep 10 07:48:04 which one's the gay one? Sep 10 07:48:22 the white one :) Sep 10 07:49:24 even better looking one (also not avaiable here) http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jrEXhgxOL.jpg Sep 10 07:49:48 gays like black too, let us know when you find a pink or light blue one Sep 10 07:51:25 of those, the sleek black one is the one I would call the most gay. the white one is futuristic and the one that looks like a 80s modem looks like.. an 80s modem Sep 10 07:52:11 not gay router http://www.electronicsinfoline.com/New/img/news/200909/13361_0.jpg Sep 10 07:52:29 rmrfchik, I'm looking only for a switch though Sep 10 07:53:05 it will looks the same Sep 10 07:53:27 guts open, wires, diods Sep 10 07:53:29 and I'm not that awesome @ doing this kind of stuff myself ;) Sep 10 07:53:31 i personally have liked the netgear rackmount line, but i guess it doesn't look that nice on a plain desk Sep 10 07:54:05 buy a rack Sep 10 07:54:32 you can buy racks cheap on craigslist :P Sep 10 07:54:42 have a rack too, but the switch is meant for the living room :) Sep 10 07:55:01 merlin1991: no, pretty sure a cute-looking AP is meant for the living room Sep 10 07:55:18 ieatlint: i'd buy a rack but i'm not sure i can rackmount a sheevaplug Sep 10 07:55:22 ap? you crazy, gaming over wireless? Sep 10 07:55:43 sure you can, it just makes no sense Sep 10 07:55:56 * kerio plays FPSes over wifi with a bluetooth mouse :< Sep 10 07:56:04 and yeah dude, wifi adds 3ms to your ping, that's totally going to fuck you up Sep 10 07:56:22 kerio: how are bluetooth mice for gaming? Sep 10 07:56:32 koala_man: meh, i don't really notice a difference Sep 10 07:56:38 except when the batteries start to run out Sep 10 07:56:44 in that case, i die Sep 10 07:56:46 :( Sep 10 07:57:07 are wireless bluetooth mice more power hungry than those proprietary wireless connections? Sep 10 07:57:17 never used one of those Sep 10 07:57:31 and the proprietary wireless mouses need a usb adapter Sep 10 07:57:32 ieatlint, the problem isn't the 3ms that's ok, the problem is the high amount of wifi and other noise here wich produces regular 10 sec lags .D Sep 10 07:57:44 merlin1991: so it's not a wifi problem Sep 10 07:57:50 it's a *your* wifi problem Sep 10 07:57:55 indeed Sep 10 07:58:04 i'll reprase it then Sep 10 07:58:07 go invest in 802.11n :P Sep 10 07:58:10 merlin1991: crack every network, enter every other AP, and turn the power down to the minimum Sep 10 07:58:12 ap? you crazy, wifi gaming in vienna? Sep 10 07:58:26 merlin1991: i'm in Rome, you think the situation is different? Sep 10 07:58:31 nah Sep 10 07:58:46 well, i am *this* close to the router anyway Sep 10 07:59:00 it's more that i don't want to switch to ethernet, losing my current connections Sep 10 07:59:10 seriously, 802.11n... almost no one is on 5ghz right now Sep 10 07:59:21 and the microwave doesn't interfere with it, hehe Sep 10 07:59:36 I used to have a wireless mouse, stopped using it again, because the signal got interrupted so often Sep 10 07:59:39 i'm on 802.11n 2.4GHz only Sep 10 07:59:52 it's still much better than g Sep 10 08:00:11 ah, i meant to be saying 802.11a, but yeah Sep 10 08:00:24 a? Sep 10 08:00:25 :| Sep 10 08:00:33 a is 5ghz only Sep 10 08:00:56 but it sucks Sep 10 08:01:41 in my experience, it's no better or worse on its own, but the 5ghz range is not very crowded, so it ends up being better Sep 10 08:01:55 you just need to find a good channel Sep 10 08:02:20 I guess living next to the biggest hospital here kinda adds to my problem :) Sep 10 08:02:20 if you can't find it, crack every neighbor's router and turn their wifi power to the minimum Sep 10 08:02:23 that definitely makes a difference, yes Sep 10 08:03:21 so I'm bound to get a cable solution Sep 10 08:04:36 or a bigger wifi AP Sep 10 08:05:00 a freakin huge one in that case Sep 10 08:05:05 yeah! Sep 10 08:05:18 with 2mt antennas Sep 10 08:06:57 ah well I have a fm transmitter in the cellar, why not build an overpowered ap :D Sep 10 08:09:26 or just build a faraday cage around the house :D Sep 10 08:09:37 yello Sep 10 09:36:15 hmm, don't some routers allow external antennas? Sep 10 09:36:24 My old D-Link does Sep 10 09:46:15 MohammadAG51: ping? Sep 10 09:46:28 X-Fade, pong Sep 10 09:47:30 Can we try to get frozen depending on the new perl-modules today? That would make it a lot easier for me to get changes like this done in the future :) Sep 10 09:48:18 Oh, versioned dependecy? I didn't get what you wanted before :P I'll do it in a bit :) Sep 10 09:48:54 MohammadAG51: I want to prevent blocking SSU from our end ;) Sep 10 09:52:16 moo Sep 10 09:52:57 cow imitation success Sep 10 09:53:08 ~moo Sep 10 09:53:08 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Sep 10 09:53:47 "twice as much as DocScrutinizer" wow he's fat Sep 10 09:55:12 honestly, I'm musing bout this each time :-D Sep 10 09:55:25 :D Sep 10 09:55:56 a 100kg cow, what a fail Sep 10 09:56:12 that quote is from a song Sep 10 09:58:14 you weigh 50kg? Sep 10 09:58:27 scrawny bastard :P Sep 10 09:59:01 that's sufficiently precise and convenient a number, yes Sep 10 09:59:07 i'm 67kg or so, and people call me too thin Sep 10 10:00:03 maybe 55, or 58, I don't care Sep 10 10:00:33 further proof you're a geek Sep 10 10:00:59 78.2 here. Sep 10 10:01:07 actually - 78.3 Sep 10 10:01:13 I'm halfway through a coffee Sep 10 10:01:21 lol Sep 10 10:01:33 hehe Sep 10 10:02:46 I'm just taking care each of my coffees has enough sugar in it, and generally try to chose the more calories while eating Sep 10 10:03:56 shopping is a pain, nowadays you can't get decent food, all is fat reduced and light Sep 10 10:04:28 The fuss about fat is ridiculous Sep 10 10:04:36 Just cook from scratch. Sep 10 10:04:45 Fast carbs are much worse for your health Sep 10 10:04:59 yeah. Sep 10 10:05:06 happily i can still get food that is anything but lean here Sep 10 10:05:16 I've recently lost 25kg or so. Sep 10 10:05:24 The key was not low fat at all. Sep 10 10:05:29 It was portion control. Sep 10 10:05:36 yeah Sep 10 10:05:43 I try to buy non-light products whenever possible and when cooking I've reduced the use of potatoes, rice, etc. Sep 10 10:05:47 I usually tell people not to eat Sep 10 10:05:49 While losing 1Kg/week - 10% of my daily energy was in the form of chocolate Sep 10 10:05:54 MiXu-: potatos are good Sep 10 10:05:57 MiXu-: they are slow Sep 10 10:06:11 like seriously if you wanna lose weight Dont eat Sep 10 10:06:17 Still carbs. And don't really taste like anything. Sep 10 10:06:20 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7498104 Sep 10 10:06:22 Unless you add fat =) Sep 10 10:06:25 MiXu-: fair enough. Sep 10 10:06:41 MiXu-: they however fill you up better than nearly anything else for a long time Sep 10 10:06:55 http://www.mendosa.com/satrank.htm Sep 10 10:07:14 True. If you consume lots of energy then cutting down on carbs is silly. Sep 10 10:44:20 hi Sep 10 10:44:37 *is 0xFFFF supposed to work on a n900 Sep 10 10:44:48 2)how do I install extras-devel? Sep 10 10:45:04 for 2) see wiki Sep 10 10:45:17 I wonder if this exists Sep 10 10:45:20 ~extras-devel Sep 10 10:45:20 methinks extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel Sep 10 10:45:46 and wth is 0xFFF Sep 10 10:45:54 s/F/FF/ Sep 10 10:45:54 merlin1991 meant: and wth is 0xFFFF Sep 10 10:46:21 Free Firmware Flasher Foo Sep 10 10:46:40 bar? Sep 10 10:47:27 I saw that Sep 10 10:47:32 for the wiki Sep 10 10:47:39 I'm tr-trying but it still fails Sep 10 10:47:52 partial refresh of applications Sep 10 10:47:58 is there some manual way to do that Sep 10 10:48:01 for instance with ssh Sep 10 10:48:19 try again. Open the app-managerrrr, update Sep 10 10:48:31 I keep trying Sep 10 10:48:37 and still the same issue Sep 10 10:49:14 ahhh Sep 10 10:49:16 fremantle Sep 10 10:49:19 not freemantle Sep 10 10:49:20 syre tiy gave;t girt at werd furewakks un teh way? Sep 10 10:49:28 lol Sep 10 10:49:29 yeah - that too. :) Sep 10 10:49:39 Sure you haven't got any wierd firewalls even Sep 10 10:49:54 no Sep 10 10:53:38 SpeedEvil: the fuck Sep 10 10:54:43 ? Sep 10 10:55:04 "syre tiy gave;t girt at werd furewakks un teh way?" Sep 10 10:55:27 Typo. Sep 10 10:55:38 Not looking at ther kesreen Sep 10 10:56:20 yeah, i see Sep 10 10:58:11 actually what's current state of 0xFFFF ? Sep 10 10:58:56 hmmm Sep 10 10:59:25 it says that bootmenu-b900 breaks the 3rd party package policy Sep 10 10:59:29 and it refuses to install it Sep 10 11:03:30 Anybody knows why on N900 the second layout (Russian) does not work? It tells me that the layout switched, but still enters latin symbols. Sep 10 11:04:03 This is a "gray import" N900, with the European keyboard layout painted on buttons Sep 10 11:04:21 (does the OS know what kind of keyboard is attached?) Sep 10 11:13:27 setxkbmap -v says: <> Sep 10 11:13:52 What is the config file for setxkbmap? How it knows about "nokia_vndr/rx-51"? Sep 10 11:15:43 ok doing with apt-get Sep 10 11:18:55 does the n900 gl support fbo? Sep 10 11:19:18 /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 Sep 10 11:19:23 zap, ^ Sep 10 11:19:50 (does the OS know what kind of keyboard is attached?) <-- it's a physical mat, it doesn't know about it Sep 10 11:20:13 I think you can set it with osso-product-info Sep 10 11:20:14 OSSO_PRODUCT_KEYBOARD='English, Dutch' Sep 10 11:20:25 zap: russian is weird Sep 10 11:20:29 or through settings > text input Sep 10 11:20:40 it's the ui that has to switch to the other 4 levels Sep 10 11:20:59 for other kbds, ctrl+space just changes the dictionary Sep 10 11:56:00 Khertan_Home: ping Sep 10 11:58:08 Okay, at some point it started working. But I still don't understand what I did :) Sep 10 11:58:38 crashanddie, test test test test test :P Sep 10 11:58:53 lcuk: TECT TECT TECT TECT Sep 10 11:59:02 ест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест тест 1/2 Sep 10 11:59:35 once was OK Sep 10 11:59:36 twice was OK Sep 10 11:59:43 10 times is starting to get painful Sep 10 12:05:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmhA1993LWY&feature=related Sep 10 12:09:38 I think things like keymat used are stored to cal, but used only for initial config on firstboot etc Sep 10 12:12:39 crashanddie, how are you getting on @ work? Sep 10 12:13:36 lcuk: good actually Sep 10 12:13:49 :D Sep 10 12:13:51 lcuk: rewriting the installation scripts, 't was about 100 lines before, now about 2000 Sep 10 12:13:52 as it should be Sep 10 12:13:59 complexification! Sep 10 12:14:06 advancification Sep 10 12:14:14 previously you had to create all the directories by hand Sep 10 12:14:20 untar a dozen .tar.bz2 files Sep 10 12:14:24 etc Sep 10 12:14:25 featurecreepificying Sep 10 12:14:36 now everything is contained in a single .sh file Sep 10 12:14:41 the .sh file is generated automatically Sep 10 12:15:54 autoconf? Sep 10 12:16:19 no, perl script Sep 10 12:16:35 I'm adapting to autoconf now though for the compilation units Sep 10 12:16:44 * merlin1991 can't stand perl :P Sep 10 12:16:51 perl is insanely powerful Sep 10 12:17:03 mmm.. perl Sep 10 12:17:06 and the syntax sort of makes me run away Sep 10 12:17:38 i try to obfuscate my perl, so that no one can read it Sep 10 12:17:47 if it's hard to write, it should be hard to read Sep 10 12:18:17 want to replace a single line (say the line that contains ###MYKEYWORD###) in file1 be replaced by the contents of file2? perl -pi -e'if(/###MYKEYWORD###/) { my $fn = "file2"; open my $fh, $fn or die "$fn:$!"; local $/; $_=<$fh>;}' file1 Sep 10 12:18:57 I didn't know people deliberately wanted to obfuscate their perl code... I thought it usually happens naturally Sep 10 12:20:44 Hi all ! Sep 10 12:21:55 that's my main problem with it, it's hard to read others code Sep 10 12:23:55 merlin1991, you are not meant to read perl Sep 10 12:24:18 the developer guide recommends facepalming onto the keyboard to implement some advanced features Sep 10 12:24:55 lcuk: you want to hear something fun Sep 10 12:24:55 no, barbwire ;) Sep 10 12:25:00 I had to adjust/fix/enhance several perl scripts already, and it always was a pain Sep 10 12:25:08 lcuk: the main dev uses -O6 as the optimisation on his code Sep 10 12:25:12 lcuk: and then he also uses -g Sep 10 12:25:15 xD Sep 10 12:25:37 "Yeah, I'll make the compiler optimise the code massively, and then shoot it all down the drain by including debug symbols" Sep 10 12:28:52 heh, but do debug symbols slow the code down.. Sep 10 12:29:11 well, it does at startup Sep 10 12:29:12 I thought they were just a map and consumed space only? Sep 10 12:29:29 * Stskeeps ponders idly what to do this afternoon Sep 10 12:29:48 startup without -O6 and -g: 2.1 seconds. With -O6 and -g: 29.3s Sep 10 12:30:01 afterwards, once it's loaded, it's fine Sep 10 12:30:06 no performance hit Sep 10 12:30:25 wth? how big is the binary you are loading? Sep 10 12:30:35 and what platform Sep 10 12:30:46 * lcuk shudders even at 2.1seconds app startup Sep 10 12:30:52 that is like insane difference Sep 10 12:31:16 Linux, on a dual-CPU core-i7 server Sep 10 12:31:19 Well the webkit dbg package used to be 1GB or so :) Sep 10 12:31:37 * DocScrutinizer cackles and points to STRIP(1) Sep 10 12:31:43 DocScrutinizer: strip doesn't change a thing Sep 10 12:32:24 ooh, so somebody really did a lot of useless coding and manpage writing Sep 10 12:32:44 DocScrutinizer: I thought it would too, it just doesn't matter in this scenario Sep 10 12:32:58 lcuk: without the debug symbols and insane optimisation, about 7.7 MB total (all the binaries). With O6 and debug, about 180 megs Sep 10 12:37:54 with O6 and debug *and strip* ? Sep 10 12:38:06 Engadget: "a question that's very near and dear to Fins ..." . . . Sep 10 12:38:52 DocScrutinizer: which leads me to believe the performance impact is coming from O6, not -g Sep 10 12:39:00 maybe the disk is dying? Sep 10 12:39:30 crashanddie: What does -O2 do? Sep 10 12:39:36 now that makes sense :-P O6 optimizing performance out of binaries XP Sep 10 12:40:03 DocScrutinizer: I'm just talking about load times here, not actual runtime performance Sep 10 12:40:23 X-Fade: haven't tried it yet Sep 10 12:40:39 crashanddie: And have all dependencies been compiled with that mad combo too? :) Sep 10 12:40:47 crashanddie: an age old common knowledge is you can so Sep 10 12:40:56 speed up code by Sep 10 12:41:02 there are no dependecies Sep 10 12:41:12 well, unless you count the glibc as being a dependency :P Sep 10 12:41:33 simply increasing it's size, like e.g. avoid loops and issue multiple similar commands instead Sep 10 12:42:01 unrolling loops.. Sep 10 12:42:51 crashanddie: Add another layer of optimization: Copy it to a compressed filesystem :) Sep 10 12:43:16 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/nokia_ceo_analysis/ Sep 10 12:43:21 if (string.length == 3) printf("%c%c%c", string[0], string[1], string[2]); else if (string.length == 4) printf("%c%c%c%c", string[0], string[1], string[2], string[3]) Sep 10 12:43:27 * RST38h starts laughing uncontrollably Sep 10 12:43:30 DocScrutinizer: unrolled enough for you? Sep 10 12:45:35 crashanddie: a good start, yes. Check if maybe -O6 can do this in a automatic way :-P Sep 10 12:45:53 Gentlemen, what the hell are you unrolling here? Sep 10 12:46:21 crashanddie: generally I'd think omitting -g and using strip should yield same result Sep 10 12:46:32 unrolling a loop with printf inside is fruitless, forget it Sep 10 12:46:34 * lcuk shakes head Sep 10 12:47:06 crashanddie: can't you test -g and -O6 independently? Sep 10 12:47:24 DocScrutinizer: well, at about 15-20 of compilation each time, I'd rather not xD Sep 10 12:47:39 err what? days? Sep 10 12:47:44 weeks Sep 10 12:47:51 freggles Sep 10 12:48:16 DocScrutinizer: Idc anymore anyway, just thought it was funny. I hate people who use -g in production, just learn to have good logs. Sep 10 12:48:17 * marmoute shivers Sep 10 12:48:32 lol Sep 10 12:48:45 I guess that's my java side that comes up Sep 10 12:48:47 though for production, yeah Sep 10 12:49:01 DocScrutinizer: you want to know the only reason he has -g? Sep 10 12:49:07 DocScrutinizer: it's so that it would generate a core dump Sep 10 12:49:21 sounds sensible Sep 10 12:49:27 :-P Sep 10 12:49:27 no, it doesn't Sep 10 12:49:36 you don't send things to production when you expect it's going to core dump Sep 10 12:49:45 XP Sep 10 12:50:11 "So why exactly is there dynamite next to the fuel tank?" "So that we can definitely hear when a car explodes" Sep 10 12:50:56 rotfl Sep 10 12:50:57 "And look, bonus points, it even leaves a crater in the middle of the road, so we know where to start looking for body parts" Sep 10 12:51:21 add a remote control, to abort runaway Sep 10 12:52:01 this would be the analogon to kill -sigsegv Sep 10 12:52:42 great too for productive machines Sep 10 12:52:48 tool Sep 10 12:56:14 which is better? +d or -d? Sep 10 12:56:28 +A Sep 10 12:56:31 … Sep 10 12:56:54 +d means errors are returned, -d means they are raised :p Sep 10 12:57:14 +d so you can handle the exception Sep 10 12:57:29 with -d i think will just crash Sep 10 12:57:49 +d means you must check for an error Sep 10 12:57:54 ( noted: i don't have a clue about what are you talking ...) Sep 10 12:57:58 -d means you can catch it with a try… block Sep 10 12:58:56 try { print("success or +d: ", func()); } except e { print("-d: ", e); } Sep 10 13:06:00 Here's how I figure it. Sep 10 13:06:49 The new guy is going to sell Nokia to Adobe since Apple wont let them play on iOS and that'll give them their own smartphone platform to play it. Sep 10 13:07:51 GAN900: Nah, the adobe tool is now allowed for ios apps. Sep 10 13:08:17 Well, damn, there goes that theory. Sep 10 13:08:39 How about he's finally Microsoft's in for getting WinMob on Nokia devices? Sep 10 13:09:25 wut? Sep 10 13:13:10 DocScrutinizer, new CEO Sep 10 13:13:20 ooh Sep 10 13:13:36 GAN: 100% support the hypothesis of selling Nokia to Adobe Sep 10 13:13:45 BBC iPlayer recently stopped worked on my N800 after they moved to the new version. Anyone know if there is a work around? Opera works but no flash. :( Sep 10 13:13:52 GAN: But look at the bright side: we will get the latest Flash! Sep 10 13:14:05 Hell, the whole OS will be rewritten in Flash!!! Sep 10 13:14:28 RST38h, I'm excited. Sep 10 13:14:52 is that new flash released? Sep 10 13:15:06 because i saw somebody on #beagle that he had internal release of 10.1 Sep 10 13:15:25 duh, no I realize it's Friday. Sep 10 13:15:30 now* Sep 10 13:16:14 Nokia: "Oh, you guys WANTED periodic new updates? Shit, our bad, we'd kinda figured you would just want to buy a new device every year." Sep 10 13:18:33 How can I be a root in the scratchbox ? Sep 10 13:19:02 sudo package is not installed yet Sep 10 13:21:06 fdisk isn't available on n900 ? Sep 10 13:21:37 why not ? Sep 10 13:21:39 RST38h: that would be the death of Maemo/MeeGo overall Sep 10 13:21:44 Adobe can't code for crap Sep 10 13:22:03 luke: who cares? Sep 10 13:22:14 no ideas on iPlayer on N800? Sep 10 13:22:18 It is a business decision! Sep 10 13:22:43 gpd, hmm unsure Sep 10 13:23:05 talk.maemo.org may be a better palce to ask, you need to find intersection of folks who have n8x0 and use iplayer Sep 10 13:23:06 gpd: Are you aware of get_iplayer? Sep 10 13:23:09 Khertan_: sfdisk? Sep 10 13:23:22 * gpd looks Sep 10 13:23:42 DocScrutinizer51: not found in repository Sep 10 13:23:48 I ve just try cfdisk Sep 10 13:23:53 write the partition ... Sep 10 13:24:00 but i got a strange error now Sep 10 13:24:04 I prefer cfdisk any day Sep 10 13:24:08 gpd: It's not a direct answer, but it lets you download programs, and then use mplayer. Won't work for spontaneous. Sep 10 13:24:25 /dev/mmc* < didn't exist anymore Sep 10 13:24:43 umm Sep 10 13:24:51 SpeedEvil: thanks, i'll look into installing on my mythtv box and then connecting using the n800. Sep 10 13:25:24 Also - much lower CPU usage, and better battery than flash IME. Sep 10 13:26:04 hum ... it s back Sep 10 13:26:06 starnge Sep 10 13:26:58 but ... i ve too partition on /dev/mmcblk1 but ... there is only /dev/mmcblk1p1 in /dev Sep 10 13:28:24 Khertan_: you're aware it generally takes a reboot to make kernel aware of partion table edits? Sep 10 13:29:04 DocScrutinizer51: didn't know :) reboot now :) Sep 10 13:29:22 or sfdisk -R /dev/device. Sep 10 13:29:30 for information i'm trying to put swap on sd :) Sep 10 13:29:58 Stskeeps: sfdisk isn't available on n900 (at least not in maemo repository) Sep 10 13:30:04 it's in busybo Sep 10 13:30:05 x Sep 10 13:30:11 arf Sep 10 13:30:33 i ve tryed to apt search it before Sep 10 13:30:45 ever tried to execute it? ;) Sep 10 13:30:50 /sbin/sfdisk Sep 10 13:31:29 i have new battery for N900 Sep 10 13:31:35 nope ... for me busybox just contain ls, cp, mv, cd, and old version of tar Sep 10 13:31:37 it should last couple days Sep 10 13:31:40 http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=990 Sep 10 13:31:42 Khertan_: /sbin/sfdisk Sep 10 13:36:17 Jaffa: any plans on moving Hermes to using OAuth for twitter? Sep 10 13:39:00 http://pastie.org/1150084 Sep 10 13:39:02 any idea ? Sep 10 13:39:10 I cannot install this simple package ... Sep 10 13:40:14 apt-get install dialog Sep 10 13:41:36 http://pastie.org/1150111 Sep 10 13:41:42 jacekowski ^^^ Sep 10 13:43:00 Stskeeps: thanks ... sfdisk works better :) Sep 10 13:43:21 any other idea ? Sep 10 13:43:56 djszapi: read what error says Sep 10 13:44:38 djszapi: fakeroot apt-get install dialog Sep 10 13:45:31 see, told you Sep 10 13:46:02 X-Fade: it does not work either Sep 10 13:46:16 his /dev/ is not mounted correctly Sep 10 13:46:19 for some reason Sep 10 13:46:24 CutMeOwnThroat: welcome to my ignore list Sep 10 13:46:30 dev is mounted ... Sep 10 13:46:31 you're welcome Sep 10 13:46:42 I have already checked in the output of mount command Sep 10 13:47:02 but that is not a problem in fact. Sep 10 13:47:05 how do you log into scratchbox Sep 10 13:47:08 I could ingore that problem ... Sep 10 13:49:05 question: when i swapon on sdcard ? the original swap is still used ? Sep 10 13:49:22 yes Sep 10 13:49:31 you have to swapoff Sep 10 13:49:56 i ask because busybox swapon didn't have option -s :) Sep 10 13:50:31 jacekowski: hum ... i suppose it s /dev/mmcblk0p3 by default on maemo n900 ? Sep 10 13:51:02 i don't remember Sep 10 13:51:05 cat /proc/swaps Sep 10 13:51:11 hrw: Yup, on a TODO. Though someone could create an issue for it, that'd be great. Sep 10 13:51:13 oh thank Sep 10 13:51:26 Jaffa: you mean bug in bugtracker? Sep 10 13:52:05 jacekowski: thx for reminds me of /proc/swaps ... for information this was the right partition :) Sep 10 13:58:52 Jaffa: like bug 11275 for example? Sep 10 13:58:53 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11275 Add OAuth support for Twitter Sep 10 13:58:54 Ouch it s make a huge difference to move swap on the sd card Sep 10 14:00:13 specially when using pylint :) Sep 10 14:00:38 Khertan_: good to know Sep 10 14:03:16 hrw: i feel the differences when there is too much io Sep 10 14:08:12 l Sep 10 14:12:21 i think it ll be time to push Khweeteur to extras-testing ... what did you think ? Sep 10 14:12:25 CutMeOwnThroat: Dibbler ? :) Sep 10 14:13:35 bleader, sossidsch inna bun? only $5 and thats cutting me own throat... Sep 10 14:14:06 :) Sep 10 14:18:47 Why do applications in a single window DE insist on pulling focus ALL THE TIME: . . . Sep 10 14:20:50 GAN900, ? which DE are you meaning Sep 10 14:21:05 lcuk, h-d. Sep 10 14:21:44 then what do you mean by a single window D-E? Sep 10 14:22:02 i thought you were thinking of like easy debian where a whole environment lives inside a single window Sep 10 14:23:43 hrw: Yup; thanks Sep 10 14:29:13 hi alls Sep 10 14:29:42 anyone using NIT Droid? Sep 10 14:29:53 just tried it and have a simple question, wheres the power button lol Sep 10 14:29:57 cant turn the bugger off Sep 10 14:30:11 hah Sep 10 14:30:22 :P Sep 10 14:30:51 once you start it Sep 10 14:30:55 you are stuck with it Sep 10 14:30:58 hehehe Sep 10 14:30:58 there is no going back Sep 10 14:31:04 :P Sep 10 14:31:26 you're not worthy running maemo after running android Sep 10 14:31:32 lol Sep 10 14:31:44 have to admit, have never seen the new adroid, so was intruiged Sep 10 14:31:52 anyway, no answers on how to turn it off? Sep 10 14:32:32 pull the battery out Sep 10 14:33:14 meh Sep 10 14:33:25 was hoping there was a more... well, deigned method :P Sep 10 14:33:29 designed* Sep 10 14:33:44 * noobmonk3y prods MohammadAG51 Sep 10 14:35:03 "Oh, Modest is loading the inbox, let's switch you back to it even though you're lookoing at the browser since Modest is slow enough to be useless." Sep 10 14:35:16 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> if you are in the main nitdroid desktop, hold the power button down (button at top of device, onormally used by maemo) Sep 10 14:35:24 lcuk, h-d shows one window at a time. Sep 10 14:35:42 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> you should see the power menu. select opower off Sep 10 14:36:12 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> if not visible, scroll down to it Sep 10 14:36:35 noobmonk3y: init 6 - nah wait is there any xterm on andridiot? Sep 10 14:36:48 lol! i swear i did that! Sep 10 14:36:53 But thank you it works Sep 10 14:36:58 almost back to the safety of maemO! Sep 10 14:37:01 So things shouldn't just pull focus whenever they please. Sep 10 14:37:06 DocScrutinizer51: just looking Sep 10 14:37:09 Especially with as slow as things are. Sep 10 14:37:24 DocScrutinizer51: not on standard install Sep 10 14:37:44 * merlin1991 just opened the amazon package with OpenGL(R) ES 2.0 Programming Guide inside Sep 10 14:38:19 noobmonk3y: get a motorola to contaminate it with google spyware :-P Sep 10 14:38:27 lol!!! Sep 10 14:38:39 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> tried the 3g enabled version, not bad. certainly some aspects which maemo does better, but it is nice to be able to get access to some mainstream apps for android. best of both worlds. Next... triple boot with meego when its ready! Sep 10 14:38:55 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> install a hosts file as well :) Sep 10 14:38:57 :) :P Sep 10 14:39:54 why not quad boot with winmoob7 ? Sep 10 14:40:28 hahaha Sep 10 14:40:29 GAN900, i am extremely interested in specific usecase, for many people browsing and mail are fine but there are some folks with humungous uncontrollable inboxes who are also browing multitple flash laden sites which will bring down a desktop machine let alone a resource constrained device Sep 10 14:41:37 16:36:59 up 9 days, 2:32 - for the usability of multiboot :-P Sep 10 14:41:52 i just flicked backwards and forwards between browser and my modestly filled modest config without issue Sep 10 14:41:52 lcuk: And these people ought to be exXxterminated! Sep 10 14:41:54 B) Sep 10 14:41:59 ;) Sep 10 14:42:04 nahhh RST38h Sep 10 14:42:57 Forget Modest or the browser, none of them will ever be fixed. Sep 10 14:43:22 So any discussions of how they SHOULD behave are pointless. Sep 10 14:44:24 lcuk: I'm sorry but Modest is a joke. Sep 10 14:44:38 * Stskeeps 's with marmoute Sep 10 14:45:18 No Thread, No Flag, No attachement WTF ? Sep 10 14:45:18 lol rent 4th paper jamb in the last 30m Sep 10 14:45:30 marmoute: it does have attachment Sep 10 14:45:54 marmoute, is there an alternative thats viable? Sep 10 14:46:04 can we use the meego reference mail client on maemo? Sep 10 14:46:17 Stskeeps: no it only show image not regular attachement. Sep 10 14:46:25 marmoute: hm, ok Sep 10 14:48:00 Stskeeps: I once reply a "haha you forget the attachement" email to a perfectly attached email on a hundred people mailing list becaus of modest. Sep 10 14:48:55 luck claws mail is ugly but fonctionnal I never tried meego's one. Maemo Xterm bug prevent to use mutt too. Sep 10 14:50:21 marmoute, have you tried to build/use the git version of modest - changes and fixes since pr1.2 included Sep 10 14:50:24 http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=56634 Sep 10 14:50:42 and bug 10206 is included in that afaik Sep 10 14:50:43 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10206 Email Attachment not visible if multipart/alternative mime types present Sep 10 14:52:18 lol... The N900 reconfigures itself when you change the simcard? That's new. Sep 10 14:52:33 Easiest way to launch rtcom-messaging-ui from xterm? Sep 10 14:53:06 crashanddie: no, battery Sep 10 14:53:29 Stskeeps: but I didn't change it... Sep 10 14:53:40 crashanddie: took out battery Sep 10 14:53:43 oh Sep 10 14:53:45 crashanddie: you remove it Sep 10 14:53:47 You had to remove the battery to swap SIM. Sep 10 14:53:51 I think that's the first time I noticed it. Sep 10 14:54:05 I switched my SIM quite a lot when I was in Oz, never had to give my zone again etc. Sep 10 14:54:13 How long did you leave the battery out for? Sep 10 14:54:27 20 seconds? Sep 10 14:55:44 crashanddie: usually enough Sep 10 14:55:49 a PITA when i code meego Sep 10 14:56:50 crashanddie, internal mini clock battery thing Sep 10 14:56:54 ? Sep 10 14:57:34 * RST38h looks at the "Nokia CEO Resigns" thread at tmo, satisfied seeing the usual selection of loons Sep 10 14:58:09 Easiest way to launch rtcom-messaging-ui from xterm? Sep 10 14:58:14 are they already in "Microsoft conquers the Nokia" thread? Sep 10 14:58:42 ab: Ofbloodycourse Sep 10 14:59:04 god save the queen. Sep 10 14:59:07 ab: Personally, I subscribe to the "he will sell Nokia to Adobe" theory, becuase it is funnier Sep 10 14:59:24 that's interesting Sep 10 14:59:30 are there any bids at stake? Sep 10 15:00:00 In some other context, I would say "credibility", but none of the posters in that thread have got any Sep 10 15:01:14 Funny thing is, the guy seemed to preside over BSD-kerneled Project Pink at Microsoft Sep 10 15:02:01 No, wait, Wiki says Kin was WinCE based Sep 10 15:02:12 RST38h, my understanding that he was chairing business division Sep 10 15:02:27 ab: that too Sep 10 15:02:47 and worked at some MA fast food places before that :) Sep 10 15:03:17 oversaw Information Worker, Microsoft Business Solutions and Unified Communications Groups. Sep 10 15:03:27 TheRegister guys have got the scoop: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/nokia_ceo_analysis/ Sep 10 15:05:36 crashanddie: lcuk: backup battery borked. Quite usual for ~90% of those components Sep 10 15:05:38 h4waii, you want to open the whole conversations window or a specific thing within it? (I am sure there is some dbus-send call) Sep 10 15:08:15 while according to specs the backup battery should last for powering RTC several 1000h, it usually is just enough for some tens of seconds Sep 10 15:08:54 crashanddie: summit proto? Sep 10 15:09:25 aye Sep 10 15:09:41 same problem here, might be simply built without a proper battery Sep 10 15:10:05 Stskeeps: nah, got 2 devices no summit proto here, both lose RTC after max 120s Sep 10 15:10:19 k Sep 10 15:10:21 weird Sep 10 15:10:43 it's those crappy LiIon cells Sep 10 15:11:27 seems they are"mt fit for the way they are treated Sep 10 15:12:05 both during manufacturing (reflow) and during normal use Sep 10 15:13:52 for FR we once did a poll: something like 30 of 40 devices had broken cells Sep 10 15:14:21 hmm Sep 10 15:14:23 * DocScrutinizer51 shudders on the idea of kicking off such poll on tmo Sep 10 15:15:10 anyway the cells seem same crappy hitachi component as in FR Sep 10 15:17:34 critical to reflow temperature profile, as well as no word about deep discharge Sep 10 15:18:03 several reports of even leaking cells Sep 10 15:23:52 oops seiko, not hitachi Sep 10 15:24:29 http://de.mouser.com/catalog/642/2318.pdf Sep 10 15:25:36 nominal capacity >100uAh, while RTC supply current usually <<1uA Sep 10 15:26:43 even *if* RTC would eat an impossible 1mA, it still should give you >6min of RTC operation without main battery Sep 10 15:28:58 you could argue 80% of N900 are defective and would have to get repair Sep 10 15:29:48 otoh standby of RTC w/o mainbat isn't a advertised product property Sep 10 15:37:18 Modest and Tracker have done so much damage to the platform. Sep 10 15:38:16 lcuk, open Modest, tap inbox (spinning wheel in toolbar starts), switch to MicroB to read a web page while waiting, get pulled back to Modest when it loads the inbox pane 10 seconds later. Sep 10 15:39:45 tracker yeah. DIE tracker DIE, burn in hell! Sep 10 15:40:54 but ohnoes, even meego has *mandatory* tracker :-((( failwale Sep 10 15:41:27 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders why the hell it's so hard to learn Sep 10 15:44:36 "German officials have created a labyrinth in the shape of a giant sausage to help people learn about the health risks associated with the popular fast food currywurst (curried sausage)." Sep 10 15:44:45 (god I'd love to have a curryworst right now) Sep 10 15:44:47 damnit, now i want currywurst. Sep 10 15:44:58 $@$ Sep 10 15:45:35 crashanddie, tax dollars at work? Sep 10 15:47:45 GAN900, i can see that as a minor irritant, but not really drastically serious, it was in the middle of something afterall Sep 10 15:47:59 and as for tracker - come up with a better way. Sep 10 15:48:04 hi, I have no internet in scratchbox, but I remember there was some command to fix this. Any hints? Sep 10 15:48:27 etc/resolv.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is what's messed up Sep 10 15:48:28 GAN900, perhaps it is something that can be looked at with the hildon ssu stuff down the line Sep 10 15:48:37 but to know to do that bugs will have to be filed :P Sep 10 15:49:19 lcuk, have been Sep 10 15:49:22 Years ago Sep 10 15:49:29 for the MicroB beta. Sep 10 15:49:31 i just checked bmo for "focus" bugs Sep 10 15:49:36 thanks Stskeeps Sep 10 15:49:41 huh? this isnt microb issue? Sep 10 15:49:42 As MicroB pulls the same shit. Sep 10 15:49:51 It's an everything issue. Sep 10 15:50:01 But it's an application bug. Sep 10 15:51:05 its not app level, and this is something all OSes have issue with Sep 10 15:51:22 it's a problem of setfocus() not distingushing between intra-app and inter-app focus stealing Sep 10 15:51:36 same problem with modal dialogs Sep 10 15:52:02 used to happen extremely seriously on windows with IM messaging Sep 10 15:52:09 you start typing to one person Sep 10 15:52:16 and a new message pops up over top :D Sep 10 15:52:32 It's infuriating. Sep 10 15:52:35 so you finish sentence intended for your mate to your mum instead Sep 10 15:52:45 Be nice to have some optimization in Maemo. Sep 10 15:53:51 http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/google-android-2-2-not-designed-for-the-tablet-form-factor/ <- finally Sep 10 15:55:49 \o/ Sep 10 15:57:16 (modal) try copying the correct e.g. APN settings from a carrier's webpage to settings->internet-connections->GPRS :-S Sep 10 15:57:57 Maemo's the new Windows XP Sep 10 15:57:57 or SIP config, for that behalf Sep 10 15:58:19 You can find the Hildon 1.x stuff if you dig deep enough in settings. Sep 10 15:58:45 "for that matter" Sep 10 15:58:56 Stskeeps: Just wait and see. Sep 10 15:59:29 RST38h: no, i'm just happy someone finally agreed to my point android was a smartphone os and not much else Sep 10 15:59:32 :P Sep 10 15:59:59 sigh GAN900 sure, theres probable a boat load of the original kernel still around too and that was written 19 years ago *shock* Sep 10 16:00:35 lcuk, not the same as having a mix of paradigms floating around in your OS. Sep 10 16:00:36 for BME that seems to be correct :-P Sep 10 16:00:48 Doesn't really seem to scream polish. Sep 10 16:01:02 it shouldn't the kernel is Finnish Sep 10 16:01:55 Yooohooo: Sep 10 16:02:05 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle-1.3/ Sep 10 16:02:35 Stskeeps: for another few months maybe. Sep 10 16:02:38 :) Sep 10 16:02:42 wait, WHAT? Sep 10 16:02:55 [side note] ...and they are breaking binary compatibility again. Sep 10 16:03:22 Prepare yourself for the last letdown. Sep 10 16:03:35 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHH Sep 10 16:04:01 where's the friggin changelog? Sep 10 16:04:08 that's not fremantle-1.3 sdk. Sep 10 16:04:34 also, that "-1.3" is needed cos of the way HAM deals with it Sep 10 16:04:48 it is an extras repo being prepared for pr1.3 Sep 10 16:04:51 look at free/ date Sep 10 16:04:51 :P Sep 10 16:04:52 that's all Sep 10 16:04:57 yes Sep 10 16:05:03 right now it is a symlink to 1.2 Sep 10 16:06:24 GAN: Look at the bright side: once we know there won't be any more PRs, people like MohammadAG won't have to look back when creating repos of bugfixed PR packages Sep 10 16:07:12 meh Sep 10 16:08:57 RST38h, how did your qtification get on? Sep 10 16:10:37 the finnish tv news are really nothing but the nokia news.. Sep 10 16:11:34 Stskeeps, unexpected today really? Sep 10 16:11:38 not really Sep 10 16:15:18 lcuk: Did not have chance to run it Sep 10 16:15:29 lcuk: Lots of other things to do Sep 10 16:15:55 sure Sep 10 16:16:10 you saw that thp did a gtk prototype of gpodder for meego? Sep 10 16:17:04 yea Sep 10 16:18:08 RST38h, is your front end ui already gtk oriented? (I know the deep down stuff isnt) Sep 10 16:19:31 RT @cscoobing BTInfinity fibre optics? With the speed of my line they must get their fibre from All Bran! Sep 10 16:19:36 * lcuk giggled @ this tweet Sep 10 16:21:31 WOOOOOW new download statistics Sep 10 16:22:59 DocScrutinizer, you mean 29.5million (pretty much 30%) in exactly a month? or per package stats? Sep 10 16:23:28 no, I mean bargraph instead of that confusing curve Sep 10 16:23:48 also split into extras, -testing, -devel Sep 10 16:24:11 (yellow, blue, magenta) Sep 10 16:24:58 lcuk: I have almost no front ui Sep 10 16:25:01 our garage wizards did another fancy Sep 10 16:25:10 (which is exactly the point) Sep 10 16:25:16 Doc: URL? Sep 10 16:25:27 e.g http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/starhash-enabler/# Sep 10 16:25:38 RST38h, indeed, do you already have a version which (for isntance) renders direct onto an XImage? Sep 10 16:26:10 thanks Sep 10 16:26:20 lcuk: Had it for years Sep 10 16:27:04 Doc:No overall stats for all packages though? Sep 10 16:27:19 dunno Sep 10 16:28:37 * RST38h would like to check his suspicion that -testing and -devel downloads exceed plain extras over the last few months Sep 10 16:29:25 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fmms/# - well - look Sep 10 16:29:58 Though I can't seem to find the raw data anymore Sep 10 16:31:13 why is http://maemo.org/packages/view/horizontal-call/ only in extras-devel? :( Sep 10 16:32:05 drizztbsd, CONTACT DEV AND ASK HIM? Sep 10 16:32:09 -caps Sep 10 16:32:19 uhm good idea Sep 10 16:33:12 umm, zoom option dropped during upgrade to nice new bargraph statistics Sep 10 16:58:17 OMG APPLE ALLOWS FLASH APPS ON IPHONE NOW Sep 10 16:59:00 OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG Sep 10 16:59:32 wait, why should we care Sep 10 16:59:38 ...and the millions of faithful will have to readjust their worldview from "nobody needs Flash, it is slow and sucks" to "iPhone has get the latest bestest Flash of all" Sep 10 16:59:39 because cookies Sep 10 16:59:53 i liek cookies Sep 10 17:01:05 RST38h, I thought it was flash->iphone conversion Sep 10 17:01:09 not directly running flash? Sep 10 17:01:36 ie the opening of the api should allow the continuation of other cross platform framework conversions too Sep 10 17:01:46 errr opening of the licensing Sep 10 17:02:17 lcuk: dunno, not sure I want to know Sep 10 17:02:34 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/10/shouty_republican/ <=== yesss Sep 10 17:05:04 hey how is maemo global version different from indian version Sep 10 17:05:05 ? Sep 10 17:05:19 i am from India Sep 10 17:05:31 and i have n900 with Indian version Sep 10 17:05:42 now if i flash with global version Sep 10 17:05:49 what would be the benifit Sep 10 17:05:52 ? Sep 10 17:50:11 Hi, which way is recommended, GUI installer or command-line way, for installing the SDK? Sep 10 17:50:48 because, GUI would be nice for a lazy user, but i would happily use the commandline way if that gives some more possibilities. :p Sep 10 17:53:43 without me rebooting my phone and loading NITDroid, can somebody tell me if cell data is usable yet? Sep 10 17:57:40 Anybody knows if it's possible in Mappero to show the maps one level larger than it shows by default? The map text is quite small for my eyes Sep 10 17:59:52 sorry, havn't got Mappero installed. Sep 10 18:00:24 Munkiii: check netmon Sep 10 18:00:33 zap: hmm if you zoom it ? Sep 10 18:01:02 check netmon? explain more? Sep 10 18:03:37 E0x: if I zoom it, it loads another level with small text Sep 10 18:05:31 go to the doctor ( just kidding ) Sep 10 18:05:49 fine, i go for the gui one. :) Sep 10 18:07:33 without me rebooting my phone and loading NITDroid, can somebody tell me if cell data is usable in NITDroid yet? Sep 10 18:08:05 Munkiii: check netmon Sep 10 18:08:21 X-Fade, ping? Sep 10 18:08:26 Hi Sep 10 18:08:34 can you explain more? Sep 10 18:08:47 MohammadAG: pong Sep 10 18:08:48 do i need to install that on NITDroid? Sep 10 18:09:02 Ah, here he is Sep 10 18:09:18 MohammadAG: Have you included the latest Modest into the SSU? Sep 10 18:09:47 Munkiii: this chan's name is #maemo Sep 10 18:10:24 #nitdroid Sep 10 18:10:29 there's an official channel Sep 10 18:10:43 ah, ok. cheers. Sep 10 18:11:56 RST38h, afaik yes, I still can't figure how GPG works so.. yeah Sep 10 18:12:23 MohammadAG: The bmo claims they have fixed the copy/paste bug Sep 10 18:12:51 MohammadAG: ALSO, there has been an important update on the swap-fucked-after-5-days bug, let me pull it up... Sep 10 18:13:29 oh, a newer version? lemme fetch that Sep 10 18:13:37 hm, MohammadAG, did you do a community runned SSU? :p Sep 10 18:13:56 #maemo-ssu Sep 10 18:14:04 MohammadAG: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6382#c10 Sep 10 18:14:05 Bug 6382: Device becomes sluggish after several days Sep 10 18:14:31 nice, PR1.3 speculations starte Sep 10 18:14:34 Pretty much confirms what ShadowJK has guessed + names some possible culprits Sep 10 18:14:36 d Sep 10 18:15:56 RST38h, and no workarounds Sep 10 18:16:10 MohammadAG; PM. Sep 10 18:16:32 MohammadAG: I cannot think of a possible workaround for this Sep 10 18:16:51 except more RAM Sep 10 18:16:52 MohammadAG: Discussed it with a friend today, he thinks of tiered swap Sep 10 18:16:59 MohammadAG: Or faster MMC :) Sep 10 18:17:21 or switch swap to microSD Sep 10 18:17:22 MohammadAG: But the tiered swap won't help, as MMC takes the same time for short and long "seeks", unlike the real HD Sep 10 18:17:26 preferably class 6 Sep 10 18:17:34 MohammadAG: microSD is not faster. 4bit interface. Sep 10 18:17:58 I read somewhere it was faster... Sep 10 18:18:15 MohammadAG: SSU-related fix would be to compile and offer all packages where they fixed memory lekslately Sep 10 18:20:00 RST38h: MohammadAG: swapon /dev/mmcblk1p3; swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3; swapon swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3; swapoff /dev/mmcblk1p3 Sep 10 18:20:23 Doc: yea, but this looks intrusive =) Sep 10 18:20:54 Doc: Wonder if Nokia will simply roll this into a cron job and release it with PR1.3 though :) Sep 10 18:21:00 hmm, whatever that means to me Sep 10 18:22:44 RST38h: maybe they are smartasses and don't do it via cron but rather when swap space fragmentation kicks in Sep 10 18:24:19 DocScrutinizer, swapon swapoff - if you turn the swap off, where does the used memory end up Sep 10 18:24:30 lcuk: c&p error Sep 10 18:25:12 lcuk: the idea is to swapon a spare prior to swapoff the fragmented Sep 10 18:25:16 lcuk, oblivion Sep 10 18:25:29 DocScrutinizer, oh sure, wheres the spare? Sep 10 18:25:45 A'ok, here is a plan Sep 10 18:25:53 Divide swap partition in two equal parts Sep 10 18:26:03 I wonder how the device runs without swap, at all Sep 10 18:26:06 Switch between them once the current swap fillsup :) Sep 10 18:26:06 lcuk: I've tested this, works as far as there's no errors. Dunno if it's effective as I never encounter that slowdown so far Sep 10 18:26:30 lcuk: I used a swap partition already existing on my uSD Sep 10 18:26:35 for that test Sep 10 18:26:41 DocScrutinizer, sure Sep 10 18:26:50 so now, expand that into something that could be done in the system Sep 10 18:26:58 RST38h, hm Sep 10 18:27:06 that gives half available swap at once Sep 10 18:27:49 RST38h: that's the better version, but obviously would halve the available swap space Sep 10 18:28:31 better create a second swap partition on eMMC with same size of 768M if you want to keep system properties Sep 10 18:28:44 better to find the issue Sep 10 18:29:12 the issue has been documented in detail by ShadowJK Sep 10 18:29:13 and madam dug and spotted a load of things over the last period Sep 10 18:29:32 the effect or the cause? Sep 10 18:30:03 whatever you call the transition from sequential to random writes in swap Sep 10 18:31:08 there's always a cause behind the cause Sep 10 18:31:52 lcuk,Doc: you do not need 768MB swap Sep 10 18:32:05 yeah Sep 10 18:32:11 RAMSize x2 is considered a good swap size Sep 10 18:32:18 yep, ack Sep 10 18:32:22 i.e. at most 512MB per swap partition Sep 10 18:32:35 Something is telling me that 384MB will do just as well Sep 10 18:33:02 I tend to agree Sep 10 18:33:52 helo javispedro Sep 10 18:33:53 evening javispedro \o did you have lag? Sep 10 18:34:04 quite :) Sep 10 18:34:10 HELO. Sep 10 18:34:17 heya javispedro Sep 10 18:34:18 lo javispedro Sep 10 18:34:23 hm... Sep 10 18:34:40 now i've restarted the installer 5 times so i'm sure the problem isn't "temporarly" Sep 10 18:34:41 http://pastebin.com/UQ1vMs4y Sep 10 18:34:46 any ideas? Sep 10 18:35:14 line 26 and onwards Sep 10 18:35:17 is the interesting part Sep 10 18:35:27 wb javispedro! Sep 10 18:35:29 MohammadAG: see, I told you I would be back by september :) Sep 10 18:36:20 RST38h, changing partition sizes would worry lots and complicate many things I would assume Sep 10 18:36:39 FIQ; do you not have network connectivity? Sep 10 18:36:55 well, i'm on IRC, so i guess i have it. ;) Sep 10 18:37:08 You might not have it from within scratchbox. Sep 10 18:37:12 hmm Sep 10 18:37:17 interesting Sep 10 18:37:21 DocScrutinizer, mhd! Sep 10 18:37:25 Check your DNS. Sep 10 18:37:32 DocScrutinizer, MHD!!! Sep 10 18:37:39 lcuk: changing partition count is more of a problem Sep 10 18:41:00 * lcuk2 huggles virgin internet Sep 10 18:41:41 * MohammadAG donwgrades lcuk2 Sep 10 18:42:07 downgrades* Sep 10 18:43:05 so, what's new? Sep 10 18:43:43 * kerio overclocks MohammadAG Sep 10 18:44:03 * MohammadAG burns Sep 10 18:44:09 javispedro, oh nothing much Sep 10 18:44:30 Maemo 7's out, and we all upgraded to N1000 Sep 10 18:44:30 but you probably knew that :P Sep 10 18:44:43 you only have N1000s? Sep 10 18:44:44 losers! Sep 10 18:45:01 * X-Fade slaps javispedro for not being around more lately Sep 10 18:45:36 N∞µ here Sep 10 18:47:52 * javispedro usally uses IRC while bored, but he's not exactly been bored these months :) Sep 10 18:49:21 javispedro: Well, we missed you here :) Sep 10 18:51:50 I've read logs, and ml lists, so just joking -- I do know what's new :) Sep 10 18:52:44 javispedro: Up for trying to OBS for fremantle? Sep 10 18:53:05 javispedro: Some of your packages fail because of scratchboxisms :) Sep 10 18:53:47 Btw, X-Fade. You can still email me with problems with the new (as in, 3 months old new :) ) autobuilder setup Sep 10 18:54:20 some people have been doing that already, so Sep 10 18:54:33 javispedro: Trying to get the OBS in such a shape that it can be a replacement for the autobuilder. Sep 10 18:55:09 javispedro: That should be a lot more future proof. Sep 10 18:55:15 yep Sep 10 18:55:58 javispedro: And it runs without busybox and uses the real tools ;) Sep 10 18:59:56 * javispedro emerges obs Sep 10 19:01:21 btw if someone is interested in garmin apps/nRoute, I made a liblocation->garmin pvt protocol converter Sep 10 19:01:26 http://gitorious.org/garminchatd Sep 10 19:01:41 it's complete enough nRoute works with it Sep 10 19:02:10 meh Sep 10 19:02:20 LOL Sep 10 19:02:40 availability of maemo update is easily guessable by repository.maemo.org speed Sep 10 19:03:59 slonopotamus: That would probably be the last thing. Sep 10 19:07:14 hey, is there a way to put a schedule into the maemo calendar (like every tuesday at 8 i have class x, etc)? Sep 10 19:07:50 yes, you have the usual options -- every week, every month. Sep 10 19:07:54 there doesn't seem to be a feature for specific days of the week or whatever, id have to go through manually Sep 10 19:08:21 yes, you have Sep 10 19:08:30 k ill mess with it more Sep 10 19:08:49 there an app for netflix like android and the iphone? Sep 10 19:09:40 * javispedro waves and promises increased IRC presency from now on Sep 10 19:09:42 see you Sep 10 19:09:42 oh, and how do you actually scroll around the map using maps.google.com mobile version Sep 10 19:09:51 adios? Sep 10 19:10:20 Enable cursor mode. Sep 10 19:10:57 there a way to make maps app less shitty? Sep 10 19:11:04 (thanks I'll try that) Sep 10 19:11:34 also, is there a way to only auto connect to *some* wifi networks? Sep 10 19:12:37 also, it seems like sometimes switching to gsm only ("2.5G") disconnects me from the web connection, but sometimes it works fine - why? Sep 10 19:15:42 sometimes phone is connected over 2g sometimes not Sep 10 19:22:28 hmhm, I'm sure someone already asked the question, but is the gps available somehow remotely without using gpsd and connecting to a wlan? Sep 10 19:22:34 (like, in pcsuite mode or something) Sep 10 19:23:17 Available how? Sep 10 19:23:56 is there a gnu parted somewhere, for maemo5? Sep 10 19:25:55 h4waii: in pc suite mode, pluged via usb? Sep 10 19:26:33 well, usbnetworking maybe Sep 10 19:28:25 for gps? Sep 10 19:29:30 ha, setup gpsd on the n900 and use that from the computer Sep 10 19:29:39 yeah doable but a bit painful Sep 10 19:37:44 nice. html5 audio tag works in Fennec. Sep 10 19:38:27 hmhm, and do we have a list of at commands understood by the ttyACM0 device? Sep 10 19:40:52 where is traceroute? Sep 10 19:40:56 ping and nmap are there Sep 10 19:41:39 traceroute isnt normally required, but certainly not missing from maemo http://maemo.org/packages/view/traceroute/ Sep 10 19:42:09 why is the app manage app so incredibly slow and resource consuming? Sep 10 19:42:38 so i just #apt-get install traceroute Sep 10 19:42:55 because its trying to manage every version of every package thats in -devel, -testing and extras and every other repo you had Sep 10 19:44:20 humm , guys what can it be that the phone have a cpu load of 11-40% all the time Sep 10 19:52:03 tt Sep 10 19:52:10 er Sep 10 19:52:15 lol changing window randomly Sep 10 19:52:21 nvm @ ^ Sep 10 19:54:15 guys Sep 10 19:54:21 anyone encode movies for n900 ? Sep 10 19:54:55 Chibi-Taiga, yeah, someone even melted his battery when he did that on an overclocked N900 Sep 10 19:55:09 but yeah, use mencoder Sep 10 19:55:25 i dont oc Sep 10 19:56:01 well i tryed to play psp encoded videos but they seems to heavy for this phone in sib, and regular player dont even support it Sep 10 19:56:24 avc main profile lvl 3 mp4 Sep 10 19:57:23 odd though Sep 10 19:57:37 install decoders-support Sep 10 19:57:44 i have Sep 10 19:57:53 but it dont support the psp encoded vids Sep 10 19:58:51 as far as i knoe psp encoders use ffmpeg, mencoder or x264 Sep 10 19:59:12 the avc i use use mencoder Sep 10 20:12:59 Anyone noticed that if you use ulv kernel-config settings recording a video always fails..? Is this known and does it cound as kernel-power bug? Sep 10 20:13:12 No it doesn't. Sep 10 20:13:53 good evening Maemoers Sep 10 20:13:53 I guess It just won't work undervolted then. :) Sep 10 20:14:55 h4waii: Do you know exactly why it fails then? Sep 10 20:17:12 Because you're starving the processor. Sep 10 20:17:17 Zucca: what is the problem? Sep 10 20:17:57 h4waii: Well. It seems to work when I lock the frequency to 600MHz but still undervolted. Sep 10 20:18:04 wierd the media play supports by default aav/h264 yet it dont play psp videos of 480x272 h264/avc Sep 10 20:18:20 aac* Sep 10 20:18:44 Venemo: 23:08:50 < Zucca> Anyone noticed that if you use ulv kernel-config settings recording a video always fails..? Is this known and does it cound as kernel-power bug? Sep 10 20:18:58 cound = count Sep 10 20:19:50 Zucca, hm, I think it is because of the ulv Sep 10 20:20:36 Zucca: are you intentionally asking ridiculously stupid questions? Sep 10 20:20:52 Venemo: It worked undervolted. I just tested by locking the cpu speed to 600MHz. Sep 10 20:20:56 seriously, it sounds like "I never feed my kids. Why won't they get up and do chores?" Sep 10 20:21:36 luke-jr: As I said. It still worked undervolted. Sep 10 20:21:50 Zucca: Conclusion: that voltage is not enough for more than 600 Mhz. Sep 10 20:22:30 Zucca: it doesn't. Sep 10 20:22:33 So It maybe because the CPU doesn't raise the frequency fast enough to catch up with the vedeo recording software. Sep 10 20:22:39 that's what you're complaining about Sep 10 20:23:01 Zucca: luke-jr is right Sep 10 20:23:06 luke-jr: Well. Mine didi work. Sep 10 20:23:27 well if you oc, ocing cpu only wont make that mutch performance you should also oc the ram Sep 10 20:23:27 Zucca: good. then stop whining since it works. Sep 10 20:23:35 So th eUNDERVOLTING isn't the issue. Sep 10 20:23:36 hm, interesting. Someone gathered statistics on the 3 operators in .fi. Average 3G -> HSDPA wakeup delay: 1290, 880, 1210 ms (for 3 different operators using same equipment). Average packet size required to transition from 3g to hsdpa: 498, 255, 32 bytes. Idle time in HSDPA before dropping back to 3g: 8, 3, 5 seconds. Sep 10 20:23:40 Chibi-Taiga: not sure the CPU and RAM are independent here Sep 10 20:23:52 luke-jr: Am I? Sep 10 20:24:16 in any case, undervolting or overclocking is utterly stupid Sep 10 20:24:35 heck, even the 600 MHz Nokia overclocks it is bad enough if kept constantly on Sep 10 20:24:43 well it is good for playing video files ive noticed Sep 10 20:26:05 luke-jr: On ulv CPU runs on 250MHz when idle. I guess it just doesn't raise the frequency fast enough. Sep 10 20:26:21 That ain't complaining. Sep 10 20:27:04 So if two full lines of IRC chat happens at the same time, my N900 goes to HSDPA, and stays there for atleast 8 seconds.. No wonder battery drains in no time on 3g :D Sep 10 20:27:15 Zucca: [22:18:17] Zucca: Conclusion: that voltage is not enough for more than 600 Mhz -> which part you didn't get? Sep 10 20:27:23 the CPU is rarely ever at idle, FYI. Sep 10 20:27:38 h4waii: it spends most of its time idling Sep 10 20:27:52 Zucca: even *normally*, 250 Mhz is buggy Sep 10 20:27:54 In terms of instructions? Sep 10 20:28:19 frequency can be changed instantly Sep 10 20:28:19 Venemo: I get all of that. And I know at those voltages 600MHz is the max BUT at that level it can record. Sep 10 20:28:21 almost instantly Sep 10 20:28:42 Zucca: no, at those voltages, it's not ever acceptable Sep 10 20:28:56 Zucca, change your sampling and load rate for higher and faster frequency jumps. Sep 10 20:29:06 you're damaging the CPU no matter what speed you run it at Sep 10 20:29:10 luke-jr: Do I have to shoe how I can record videos on ulv @ 600MHz? Sep 10 20:29:15 you're damaging the CPU no matter what speed you run it at Sep 10 20:29:19 Shoe him to death. Sep 10 20:29:20 luke-jr: undervolting isn't damagining Sep 10 20:29:25 jacekowski: no? Sep 10 20:29:29 no Sep 10 20:29:33 h4waii, the CPU spends most of its time at 0 MHz 0 Volt, unless you've messed up something :) Sep 10 20:29:55 undervolting may even make it lifetime longer Sep 10 20:29:57 not a lot Sep 10 20:29:57 How undervolting is supposed to _damage_ cpu? Sep 10 20:30:28 Zucca: in theory, it's not what it was designed to work with Sep 10 20:30:37 to me, undervolting =~ brown-out Sep 10 20:30:39 ShadowJK, so you're trying to tell me that there is 0 draw from proc when at idle? Sep 10 20:30:55 h4waii: I think he means under 1 volt Sep 10 20:30:57 luke-jr: brownouts are only dangerous to memory/cache contents Sep 10 20:31:06 h4waii: yes Sep 10 20:31:06 h4waii, it's pretty damn close :-) Sep 10 20:31:09 jacekowski: then why do they destroy computers entirely? Sep 10 20:31:25 luke-jr: it's ussualy what happens after brownout Sep 10 20:31:36 luke-jr: that damages it Sep 10 20:31:45 jacekowski: so surge protection really *is* sufficient⁇ Sep 10 20:31:53 luke-jr: To you, yes. But if you have a wire and if you lower the voltage also the current goes down. It does not shorten the life of that wire. Same goes for the CPU. Sep 10 20:32:01 surge protection isn't instant Sep 10 20:32:25 Zucca: obviously, increase the voltage if you wanna record at a higher clock, then Sep 10 20:32:26 Zucca: processes in cpu are little bit more complicated Sep 10 20:32:31 LOL Sep 10 20:32:38 a CPU is actually just 17 wires Sep 10 20:32:58 jacekowski: I just told the basics. Sep 10 20:33:25 11267.pts-1.HiNGE Sep 10 20:33:35 luke-jr: basicaly when brownout happens psu tries to compensate for that and then it may be not able to react fast enough when voltage comes back to normal level Sep 10 20:33:51 o Sep 10 20:33:52 But the basic rule is: udervolting does NOT shorten the life of your cpu. Sep 10 20:34:00 so it's dangerous to PSU :P Sep 10 20:34:14 h4waii: The power drawn when idle is enough so that it can last for 200 hours on battery Sep 10 20:34:18 I'd imagine the mains frequency would be dropping too during a brownout? Sep 10 20:34:23 luke-jr: because on brownout lot of equipment will switch off and voltage will go higher Sep 10 20:34:31 ShadowJK: yep Sep 10 20:34:57 If you use your device, it's hardly at idle "most of the time" Sep 10 20:35:15 h4waii: even if you use it Sep 10 20:35:22 Well when you have it in your pocket it should be at idle most of the time, or else the battery runs out before the end of the day :) Sep 10 20:35:28 h4waii: it's the LCD that draws the power mostly Sep 10 20:35:31 in worst case grid may separate to protect still working part of network Sep 10 20:35:44 ShadowJK: the battery will run out in a few hours usually Sep 10 20:35:49 even in my pocket Sep 10 20:35:53 because if it will not separate you may end up with half of country losing power Sep 10 20:35:59 Haha, the battery will run out by the end of a day, regardless. For me. Sep 10 20:36:15 luke-jr, mine does a few days when used as a phone Sep 10 20:36:15 ShadowJK: to make it last all day, you need to make it useless :P Sep 10 20:36:40 Of course right now I'm downloading stuff at 5 megabit/s :P Sep 10 20:37:03 perhaps I need to figure out a way to tell SIP/XMPP to stfu when there's no use Sep 10 20:37:11 not using charger cable because only place I found the good signal in this room is charger port down in my coffee cup, on top of the 15" CRT :D Sep 10 20:37:31 well, it would be nice if os could be clever enough and synchronise wake ups as much as possible Sep 10 20:37:51 Yeah there's libiphb, but i dont think much anything uses it? Sep 10 20:38:00 and pause processes that don't have to operate when phone is not used Sep 10 20:38:01 Venemo: The thing I first said here (and my point was) that recording fails if one uses ulv settings. I wasn't complaining about it. I just noticed it. Then after that someone starts to talk to me like I was complete ass. I even investigated the, so called, problem a bit and realized that you can record on ulv, but you haveto to keep the frequency locked to 600MHz to be able to do that, since cpu doesn't "catch" the video processing fast enough. Sep 10 20:38:11 And QT is getting, or has, timer slewing so that timers eventually converge and fire simultaneously Sep 10 20:38:25 * luke-jr wonders how long a system will tolerate its connection window set to 0 Sep 10 20:38:34 Won't help shit if the kernel isn't tolerant. Sep 10 20:38:39 luke-jr: quite a long time Sep 10 20:38:56 jacekowski: know any way to use that? ;) Sep 10 20:39:01 luke-jr: connections can be kept in that state for hours Sep 10 20:39:05 set all TCP windows to 0 when turning screen off… Sep 10 20:39:08 luke-jr: some DoS exploits Sep 10 20:39:17 although, then you can miss calls :/ Sep 10 20:39:19 Except connections to 4chan, 4chan's server drops all 0-window connections on sight Sep 10 20:39:26 and don't ask me how I discovered this Sep 10 20:40:00 I guess this really does need to be app-level Sep 10 20:40:07 nope Sep 10 20:40:09 kernel can do it Sep 10 20:40:24 and unless it's something like irc Sep 10 20:40:26 Well protocol awareness would help alot Sep 10 20:40:29 that requires ping every so often Sep 10 20:40:31 jacekowski: kernel can't stop traffic except for actual user-needed notifications (calls) Sep 10 20:40:32 * ShadowJK already does it for IRC sometimes :P Sep 10 20:40:38 but I'm using a bouncer and do it on the bouncer's server Sep 10 20:41:00 A smart proxy that can filter and aggregate would be lovely Sep 10 20:41:05 Quack. Sep 10 20:41:25 Including web-compressing, and VPN over multiple networks. Sep 10 20:41:29 maybe use QoS bits? Sep 10 20:41:35 TOS Sep 10 20:41:39 whatever Sep 10 20:41:43 but tos isn't supposed to be used for that Sep 10 20:41:47 jacekowski: why? Sep 10 20:41:54 i thought the TOS bits were deprecated Sep 10 20:41:57 read the rfc Sep 10 20:42:19 "VPN over multiple networks" <- what does that mean? Sep 10 20:42:36 like a roaming Sep 10 20:42:41 Is that like how my IRC goes over openvpn, and openvpn seamlessly moves from wifi to cellular and back? Sep 10 20:42:48 yeah Sep 10 20:43:09 jacekowski: RFC says I can't slow down packets with bulk TOS bits? Sep 10 20:43:33 luke-jr: RFC specifies what goes into TOS bits Sep 10 20:43:49 ShadowJK: yes Sep 10 20:44:32 ShadowJK: Also - rtmp may be blocked if on 2g Sep 10 20:44:38 luke-jr: and using this bits for something else may break things Sep 10 20:44:57 It's handy for my ISP Sep 10 20:45:10 as it sets the TOS bits depending on what queue traffic is in. Sep 10 20:45:22 So I can tell what priority my connections are getting Sep 10 20:48:07 I would highly recommend anyone who is able should stop by the upcoming MeeGo meetup - http://www.meetup.com/SFBay-MeeGo-Network/calendar/14595527/ Sep 10 20:48:31 jacekowski: RFC specifies a bit of TOS for "Prompt delivery is important" Sep 10 20:48:51 jacekowski: why can't that be used to force an aggregate flush? Sep 10 20:49:04 it can Sep 10 20:51:47 so an IP tunnel that has OOB control of flushing (every X minutes, every X bytes, 'now', and "delay" TOS bit) Sep 10 20:52:01 maybe a minimum precedence level Sep 10 20:52:12 luke-jr: something like that Sep 10 20:52:37 luke-jr: Adding protocol support - forex http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy Sep 10 20:52:56 maybe only flush if low-delay=1 && precedence > priority Sep 10 20:53:09 and flush within 10 seconds if low-delay=1 && precedence > routine Sep 10 20:54:15 SpeedEvil: that's high-level Sep 10 20:55:07 the IP-level system could work if Asterisk and ejabberd are slightly modified to flag message/call packets as low-delay, immediate (or priority, for text) precedence Sep 10 20:55:37 luke-jr: yes, it's high level. Sep 10 20:56:00 another control for the IP-level design: disable buffering altogether (while the screen is on) Sep 10 20:56:03 luke-jr: In principle, it'd be nice to be able to have a 'plug and play' bit of buggering software. Sep 10 20:56:22 luke-jr: Which could have high and low level buggering, including protocol aware. Sep 10 20:56:28 SpeedEvil: well, one could always add heureustics to the proxy Sep 10 20:56:28 err Sep 10 20:56:36 I should look at the screern while typing. Sep 10 20:56:42 I was watching my fish. Sep 10 20:56:44 iptables can set TOS bits in layer-7 Sep 10 20:57:05 but sure Sep 10 20:57:17 What might also be interesting - in principe - would be per-user or process TOS Sep 10 20:57:18 might be nicer to use plugins for that Sep 10 20:57:26 but it would probably use more CPU on the server Sep 10 20:58:04 I think it's better left to netfilter ☺ Sep 10 20:58:14 then you can do another unrelated things wiht the protocol inspection results Sep 10 20:59:54 the last few days ive been constantly getting updates for pyQt demo and full binding packages Sep 10 21:00:16 everytime i try to update them, i get a corrupt package error Sep 10 21:00:39 any others getting this, and any idea how to fix Sep 10 21:03:39 ah, its the demo package is conflicting with the full install package Sep 10 21:03:55 so unistalling the demo should let it update Sep 10 21:05:53 ew Sep 10 21:06:05 IPv6 redefines the TOS bits as "undefined" :/ Sep 10 21:06:40 i think they were already redefined in ipv4 too Sep 10 21:06:44 Don't you Lurve spec bugs! Sep 10 21:06:48 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10354 Sep 10 21:06:49 Bug 10354: Symbol virtual keyboard inconsistent to access from hardware keyboard. Sep 10 21:06:51 * SpeedEvil sighs. Sep 10 21:07:19 'mashing the two keys shouldn't work reliably' = broken spec Sep 10 21:08:32 the proxy should respond to ARP on its own.. Sep 10 21:08:54 provided its connection is alive Sep 10 21:08:54 ARP, probably ping Sep 10 21:09:02 no, that would be evi Sep 10 21:09:03 evil Sep 10 21:10:35 this folder is taking 200Mb of /home (/home/user/kroll) how can i symlink it into MyDocs? Sep 10 21:11:32 If it's purely files, and does not have any ownership or permissions requirements, simply copy it, and then symlink the directory Sep 10 21:11:33 SpeedEvil: ha, i would of thought the buttons label would make it obvious Sep 10 21:11:55 mc_teo`: Sure. Sep 10 21:12:26 mc_teo`: However - is there any sane rationale at all for mashing the two buttons sometimes working, sometimes not? Sep 10 21:12:43 SpeedEvil, can you tell me how to? cp /home/user/kroll /home/user/MyDocs ? Sep 10 21:12:48 will that work? Sep 10 21:12:54 no Sep 10 21:13:04 you need cp -R I think Sep 10 21:13:45 mv /home/user/kroll/* /home/user/MyDocs/kroll/ Sep 10 21:13:46 kroll is game, so files are required for it to run i guess Sep 10 21:14:06 If it has binaries, it will not work. Sep 10 21:14:13 As they will not be executable on mydocs Sep 10 21:14:37 can you not chmod +x Sep 10 21:14:41 core.pakd000, core.pakh, game_user_info.savegame, Kroll Sep 10 21:14:42 * luke-jr ponders if this can be integrated into iodine sanely Sep 10 21:14:44 these are the files Sep 10 21:15:00 or is that a security feature Sep 10 21:15:21 mc_teo`: vfat does not support +x Sep 10 21:17:52 i have a duplicate dir (/home/home/xxx) Sep 10 21:18:06 is it safe to delete it? Sep 10 21:21:32 moin Sep 10 21:30:21 can i delete this dir to free rootfs? /var/lib/dpkg Sep 10 21:31:16 th3hate: only if you never want to install or remove any app later Sep 10 21:31:52 i'll take that as a no Sep 10 21:32:13 i only have 40 app installed , yet rootfs is 90% full Sep 10 21:32:28 doubt any non-optified apps are installed Sep 10 21:33:10 th3hate: have you actually checked which files take the most space? Sep 10 21:33:42 yeah, using storage usage app to figure out Sep 10 21:34:10 /usr/lib is taking up 171Mb of rootfs Sep 10 21:34:16 hmm, Sep 10 21:34:18 1.1? Sep 10 21:34:50 1.2 Sep 10 21:37:09 Let's say I wanted to launch osso-xterm upon boot, after hildon pops up. Sep 10 21:37:26 Why does an upstart script waiting for hildon-desktop not work? Is it a different trigger PID I need? Sep 10 21:37:44 well, it does work Sep 10 21:37:59 but osso-xterm fails to connect to Xserver probably Sep 10 21:38:22 Makes perfect sense. Sep 10 21:38:41 Solution? Sep 10 21:40:27 I'm creating a script to snapshot processes so I can open them after a nightly power-cycle. Sep 10 21:42:22 export DISPLAY=:0 before executing xterm Sep 10 21:42:34 and fcron doesn't support @reboot for some recockulous reason Sep 10 21:44:25 vnc server is not under the apps is there another deposrity *spellin* i need to add? Sep 10 21:44:48 VNCserver? x11vnc? Sep 10 21:44:48 ~debian firestorm Sep 10 21:44:49 * infobot tells firestorm to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Sep 10 21:45:43 oh ffs thanks h4waii :) Sep 10 21:46:19 jacekowski, still doesn't open it. Sep 10 21:48:27 Perhaps, xsession instead of hildon-desktop ? Sep 10 21:49:04 mv /usr/share/nokia-maps /home/opt/ Sep 10 21:49:33 mv:cannot remove '/home/opt/nokia-maps' : is a directory Sep 10 21:49:37 any idea why? Sep 10 21:50:18 hi! i installed openjazz on my N900 and used the settings option to remap the keys.. problem is that they seem to have been remapped on a global system level. any idea on how to fix this? Sep 10 21:50:56 th3hate; the error message is right there. It's a directory. Sep 10 21:51:26 h4waii, right but i wanna move it out of rootfs, any idea how? Sep 10 21:52:13 oh nevermind , it's already in /opt i guess Sep 10 21:53:18 Please make sure you symlink it back. Sep 10 21:53:53 actually it's both in /root and /opt Sep 10 21:53:54 pfft Sep 10 21:54:09 that's why rootfs is full Sep 10 21:54:43 jacekowski, FYI - run-standalone.sh fixed it, without exporting the variable. Sep 10 21:55:33 th3hate: i think you need a move -R Sep 10 21:55:40 urgh been so long can't remeber how to use this phone! Sep 10 21:56:17 mv -R rather Sep 10 21:56:58 what does -R stand for? Sep 10 21:57:12 recursive. Sep 10 21:57:52 well you cant rm a dir without -r so i presume the same for mv Sep 10 21:58:38 but since -r and -R probably have different functions, i would double check on google Sep 10 21:58:40 what about ln -s, what is it for? Sep 10 21:59:13 link symbolicoly, iirc Sep 10 21:59:30 yep, that's correct Sep 10 21:59:37 ln is link, the -s means symlink Sep 10 22:01:48 you think this will work to free up /home? Sep 10 22:01:50 mv /home/user/kroll /home/user/MyDocs/ Sep 10 22:01:50 ln -s /home/user/kroll /home/user/MyDocs/kroll Sep 10 22:02:06 kroll is a game taking 200mb of /home Sep 10 22:03:09 will fapmans apt gui ever replace the app manager Sep 10 22:03:39 or at least use some of his code to speed up the app manager Sep 10 22:04:35 yeah, the scrolling in that actually feels nice Sep 10 22:05:20 is it safe to delete some locales i don't need in usr/share/locale to free rootfs space? Sep 10 22:05:49 Probably, but don't quote me on that. Sep 10 22:06:20 th3hate: i pretty sure there are loads of wiki tutorials that give you many options to free rootfs space Sep 10 22:06:58 Really bad news people: REALLY bad news on the software law side >>> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/09/the-end-of-used-major-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses.ars Sep 10 22:07:12 mc_teo`, i did everything menitioned in the wiki, yet my rootfs is still 86% full Sep 10 22:08:01 and i dont mind the scrolling, its just currently, there is no way to select numerous packages to install Sep 10 22:08:05 or update Sep 10 22:08:46 i would rather select a few, and install them in one go, rather than waiting the few minutes in between Sep 10 22:08:53 th3hate, yes. But make sure you delete the right ones. Sep 10 22:09:33 h4waii, i guess everything but en_GB Sep 10 22:09:46 Very much not so. Sep 10 22:09:57 mc_teo`: well, let me rephrase that, the scrolling in it is something I wouldn't mind seeing as the Maemo default Sep 10 22:09:59 At the least, symlink them out of / and into /opt Sep 10 22:10:53 th3hate: one of the tutorials definately mentioned moving the locales and symlinking them Sep 10 22:11:30 th3hate: in debian there is a nice package `localepurge`. i don't know if it is in maemo repos too Sep 10 22:11:58 Ah, seems like openjazz set the keyboard to english layout and then did not reset it to swedish (which is what i am currently using). So problem solved by editing the settings in Text input---> Hardware kerbord layout Sep 10 22:20:04 just noticed most of ovi free apps aren't optified, weatherbug for example takes 3Mb of rootfs Sep 10 22:22:21 could some sort of overlay filesystem be better suited for choosing dynamically what to store on rootfs and what on sd? Sep 10 22:24:25 very other hour Sep 10 22:24:26 or two to give the impression of never sleeping Sep 10 22:24:34 sorry wrong paste Sep 10 22:24:46 http://gizmodo.com/5635207/will-you-buy-a-nokia-device-in-the-future Sep 10 22:24:50 Here, check it out Sep 10 22:25:38 check what out.. Sep 10 22:26:40 I guess I'll have to fire up a web browser then if you wont say :P Sep 10 22:28:31 hmm, better than a proxy would be having the servers in question just not send data until needed … ;P Sep 10 22:29:25 wait, I already thought of that… problem is there are two different "better"s Sep 10 22:33:13 problem with a proxy is the added latency Sep 10 22:33:24 for those real-time things… Sep 10 22:33:56 lol real time Sep 10 22:34:00 on 3g Sep 10 22:34:11 ShadowJK: like RTP Sep 10 22:34:38 data stops for a second if the operator decides to upgrade you from 3g to hsdpa or downgrade you from hsdpa to 3g :) Sep 10 22:35:13 so never? Sep 10 22:35:29 N900 has no hsdpa, n00b Sep 10 22:35:34 ... it does Sep 10 22:35:45 You can never convince all servers on the net to do this. Sep 10 22:35:51 You can with a proxy Sep 10 22:35:55 isn't hsdpa = 4G? Sep 10 22:36:09 3.5 Sep 10 22:36:09 luke-jr, that's up to politicians to decide Sep 10 22:36:16 but N900 calls it "3.5G" Sep 10 22:36:20 o Sep 10 22:36:31 Typically wimax and LTE are called 4g Sep 10 22:37:03 N900 has 10 Mbit/s HSDPA and 2 MBit/s HSUPA Sep 10 22:37:07 so I should just force 3G only? Sep 10 22:37:43 You can force "3g or 3.5g but no 2g or 2.5g", but you can't do "3g only no 3.5g" Sep 10 22:37:56 :/ Sep 10 22:38:34 Basically data isn't realtime Sep 10 22:38:42 maybe it will be on 4g in the future.. Sep 10 22:38:53 so how are calls supposed to work? Sep 10 22:39:49 calls don't use packet data Sep 10 22:39:54 calls don't use IP Sep 10 22:40:19 Does anyone happen to know what encapsulation 'video calls' use/ Sep 10 22:40:26 on 4g they're supposed to, so I guess operators can still charge you through the nose for not randomly delaying your packets by seconds during calls Sep 10 22:40:51 That is 'normal' 3G video calls Sep 10 22:40:58 SpeedEvil, whatever it is, it's probably like MMS+WAP, a "Not Invented Here" redesign of some standard internet protocol Sep 10 22:41:12 yeah Sep 10 22:41:34 I was idly wondering if there was a way to use it for point-point data Sep 10 22:42:05 ShadowJK: no? SIP is packet Sep 10 22:42:36 SpeedEvil: http://www.radvision.com/NR/rdonlyres/87BFD933-F834-49D8-9266-FD3D6F230740/0/3G324M_Integration_to_Windows_Mobile.pdf Sep 10 22:42:56 luke-jr, "normal" voice calls aren't SIP Sep 10 22:43:02 Uh what? You can force 2G and no 2.5G? Sep 10 22:43:09 no Sep 10 22:43:30 ShadowJK: SIP is all the voice I have Sep 10 22:44:05 On a data link that will happily delay packets for half a minute if it feels like it :) Sep 10 22:44:20 ☹ Sep 10 22:44:41 is this a limitation of the spec(s), or of Nokia's blob/ Sep 10 22:44:43 ? Sep 10 22:45:13 What limitaion? Sep 10 22:45:26 being unable to lock to 3G only Sep 10 22:45:29 or 2G only Sep 10 22:45:55 AFAIK, a bit of 4 different columns. Sep 10 22:46:22 carrier, network, implementation and handset. Sep 10 22:46:29 Although network and implementation are carrier-related. Sep 10 22:50:47 do all 3G phones support 3.5? Sep 10 22:50:54 couldn't N900 lie about its capabiltiies? Sep 10 22:55:50 luke-jr, all 3.5G phones support 3G, not the opposite Sep 10 22:56:02 6680 had 3G, no 3.5G Sep 10 22:57:34 "real" voice calls are prioritized over data anyways :) Sep 10 22:58:23 does anyone have fcam working with titan's ? and is the normal camera app supposed to work with fcam-drivers there ? Sep 10 22:59:50 fcam dies for me with the stock kernel Sep 10 23:00:08 what exactly 'dies' ? Sep 10 23:00:18 segfaults on boot Sep 10 23:00:24 start of fcam Sep 10 23:00:32 weird Sep 10 23:01:35 oops - power kernel actually Sep 10 23:01:41 * SpeedEvil reverts Sep 10 23:01:56 why wouldn't you want the power kernel ?' Sep 10 23:02:13 Because I want fcam Sep 10 23:02:19 And I don't care about overclocking. Sep 10 23:02:33 And I would actually rather for various purposes have a vanilla kernel onboard. Sep 10 23:03:43 MohammadAG51: so why couldn't N900 tell carriers it doesn't support 3.5G? Sep 10 23:05:59 jacktheripper: because you don't want some stupid app being able to overclock your OMAP? Sep 10 23:06:56 luke-jr: I prefer having the choice to do so. I actually keep it for the wifi monitor-mode channels bug though. Sep 10 23:07:10 ? Sep 10 23:07:32 with the stock kernel, monitor-mode only finds networks on channel 6 Sep 10 23:07:44 if you're associated with something on channel 6, sure Sep 10 23:08:12 monitor-mode means you're associated with nothing. Sep 10 23:08:26 no, it doesn't. Sep 10 23:08:30 it allows for sniffing packets Sep 10 23:09:11 I suppose on N900 it does due to another bug Sep 10 23:09:33 but *normally* you can be connected *and* monitor Sep 10 23:10:43 I honestly didn't try that before. Sep 10 23:10:54 you just need to create another interface on the phy Sep 10 23:11:21 then put one in STA mode, and the other in Monitor mode Sep 10 23:11:29 I know Sep 10 23:11:45 it's nice to do that from my desktop, then when I get out of range it begins hopping channels Sep 10 23:12:03 then when I get back in range, it locks back to 6 and associates Sep 10 23:12:31 evening Sep 10 23:12:43 any one off the top of thier heads tell me what least firmware is Sep 10 23:12:56 1.2 Sep 10 23:14:51 MohammadAG51; What's the possbility of using the hw keyboard through USB HID? Sep 10 23:16:12 ty :) Sep 10 23:16:34 someone in #Jesus burned a Quran today: http://i.imgur.com/iv4lg.jpg Sep 10 23:16:57 cweaion 10.2010.39-1.203.3 Sep 10 23:17:02 version* Sep 10 23:17:45 that sound right bub Sep 10 23:18:06 Bobbe* Sep 10 23:30:56 fcam doesn't even work with stock. Sep 10 23:32:31 does anyone here have it working ? Sep 10 23:38:33 I used fcam Sep 10 23:38:58 I *never* used power kernel Sep 10 23:39:06 I don't give a shit Sep 10 23:39:33 I can't figure out why it doesn't work here :/ Sep 10 23:40:30 ande I'm 5h on UMTS, using xchat Sep 10 23:40:53 :O Sep 10 23:41:09 bat icon down to 66percent Sep 10 23:41:54 3G doesn't take as much as 3.5G. Sep 10 23:42:13 false Sep 10 23:44:20 probably 3.5 takes 2% less than _ Sep 10 23:45:14 than 3G... wtf? Sep 10 23:45:28 wtf? Sep 10 23:45:38 wtf? Sep 10 23:45:41 HSDPA eats gigantic amounts of power for me :) Sep 10 23:45:46 wtf? Sep 10 23:46:11 wtf for typo Sep 10 23:46:27 Well it depends on the task, of course Sep 10 23:46:38 downloading a 700M file, HSDPA wins in power efficiency Sep 10 23:47:06 But when each chat line on IRC keeps the radio transmitting 8seconds with my operator... Sep 10 23:47:43 which it does with 3 and 3.5 anyway Sep 10 23:48:14 All I know is that when the icon changes from 3 to 3.5G, power consumption goes from 300-400 to 900-1100 :D Sep 10 23:48:36 (screen on) Sep 10 23:48:44 mhm Sep 10 23:48:45 interesting Sep 10 23:48:56 got plots? Sep 10 23:49:15 nope, what kind of plots? Sep 10 23:49:38 I/event Sep 10 23:49:59 hm, need a way to obtain 3g/3.5g status programmatically.. Sep 10 23:50:29 as 3.5 simply is a more efficient way to cod bits afaik Sep 10 23:51:19 like q16 vs q64 Sep 10 23:52:06 Yeah well, NASA used to have mainframes working overnight to decode 30 minute transmission from outer solar system with similar coding ;p Sep 10 23:53:22 decoding isn't free :) Sep 10 23:54:26 maybe, but i'd like to see solid numbers Sep 10 23:54:27 But it could also be that since my operator switches from 3g to 3.5g at 498 byte/s or so, the 3g/3.5g icon just notifies me of actual traffic flowing Sep 10 23:56:18 carrier offers 3.5 all the time. It's just the actual (tx) traffic that makes the icon show 3.5 Sep 10 23:56:19 Well - there are somewhat numbers on my page on power use Sep 10 23:57:21 Carrier also decides when handset uses WCDMA and when it switches over to HSDPA Sep 10 23:57:52 does ovi maps for n900 now have turn by turn voice feature ??? Sep 10 23:58:58 Statistics collected by other people have determined that it takes a ping of 498 bytes per second to make my carrier switch from WCDMA to HSDPA, and that switching causes 1290 ms delay. Then it stays on HSDPA for 8s after last activity (or activity > unknown threshold) before it drops back to WCDMA Sep 10 23:58:59 no Sep 10 23:59:36 1920ms delay? ouch. Sep 10 23:59:43 1290 Sep 10 23:59:59 ah oh, still ouch Sep 11 00:00:09 DNA was fastest with 880 ms Sep 11 00:00:17 and even that is pretty slow Sep 11 00:00:41 And Sonera switched to HSDPA at 32 byte ping per second already Sep 11 00:02:12 77ms ping rtt on HSDPA, 268ms ping rtt on WCDMA with my operator (Elisa/Saunalahti).. I guess the HSDPA pings were >498 bytes to keep hsdpa alive :-) Sep 11 00:03:12 bah, rtt 58ms on EDGE Sep 11 00:03:35 what are you guys ping'ing? Sep 11 00:04:56 can I get a recommendation on which battery and separate charger to get for the n900 online? Sep 11 00:04:57 288/585/2248 min/avg/max on edge for me Sep 11 00:05:28 I'm heading home, pinginginginginging my mattrass Sep 11 00:05:42 lol... ping doesn't actually return anything at all Sep 11 00:06:14 whoawhoa: please elaborate Sep 11 00:06:59 I want an extra battery to carry around with me cause my phone dies everyday Sep 11 00:07:11 and I wouldnt be able to charge it at the same time without an extra charger Sep 11 00:08:05 98/103/111 on HSDPA, 289/306/319 on WCDMA Sep 11 00:08:25 68 packets sent / 0 packets received / 100% packet loss Sep 11 00:12:31 is there a way to disable the turn-music-off-on-im_notification feature? Sep 11 00:12:59 * DocScrutinizer atomic-pingfloods tmo Sep 11 00:13:51 MNZ51: depends on your definition of IM I guess Sep 11 00:14:44 the maemo built in IM Sep 11 00:15:25 actually such 'feature' sounds like a madman's last revenge to me Sep 11 00:16:13 I KNOW! :/ Sep 11 00:17:01 and it doesn't stop for the time of the notification.... takes tqo more seconds Sep 11 00:17:10 two* Sep 11 00:17:20 so, how about a cheap ebay battery and charger? Sep 11 00:17:59 while there's some rationale in stopping media sound on inbound call, it's a fat stinking brainfart to stop media audio on inbound IM notification Sep 11 00:18:37 sorry for the /nick spam :D Sep 11 00:19:00 apology not accepted Sep 11 00:19:15 what spam? Sep 11 00:19:21 :( Sep 11 00:19:32 DocScrutinizer: spam for people who haven't filtered out nickchanges, I guess Sep 11 00:19:44 maybe Sep 11 00:20:57 anyway, night nerds! Sep 11 00:21:03 /ignore * PARTS JOINS QUITS NICKS Sep 11 00:22:27 oh darn..... I just realized we need PA for stopping media playback on calls, etc Sep 11 00:25:35 maybe you do. I 'published' a solution for ALSA some 6 months ago Sep 11 00:26:49 DocScrutinizer link/name/anything? Sep 11 00:27:08 alsa hooks Sep 11 00:28:07 paul and me created a plugin to execute arbitrary binaries on audio device open() Sep 11 00:28:39 of course also on close Sep 11 00:29:09 FYYYCK PA! Sep 11 00:29:27 nice! Sep 11 00:30:11 hmm Sep 11 00:31:13 hmm, what's with this ovi "this item is not available for your country" crap... Sep 11 00:31:38 so deemphasis filter + dmix + hooks and we can get rid of PA? or is there more? Sep 11 00:31:59 with ALSA hooks you can implement a darn lot f amazing things. With my plugin you can implement almost everything Sep 11 00:33:19 e.g. call dbus to signal device not to go asleep until the current audio playback has finished Sep 11 00:34:07 basically we would just need a method to stop all other audio' during calls Sep 11 00:34:13 also when the called binary returns !=0, open() fails Sep 11 00:34:42 snd_open() to be more specific Sep 11 00:35:52 btw I fixed up hwdep for the eq the other day(I think) Sep 11 00:36:08 do you need a method to STOP (I have a concept for that), or fsckng simply mute unwanted audio, which is basically possible with existing ALSA? Sep 11 00:36:55 but hwdep_open still complains about device not existing though it's there under /proc Sep 11 00:37:02 yeah stop pr mute Sep 11 00:37:09 or mute Sep 11 00:37:36 how would you go about that? Sep 11 00:37:50 tty2morrow Sep 11 00:37:59 ok gnite Sep 11 00:38:05 nite Sep 11 00:42:33 Umm - what are fcamera 'dmg' files? Sep 11 00:44:35 ah Sep 11 00:53:53 the pity is nobody seems to realize the potential of that concept Sep 11 00:54:21 so I felt like just dumpint it Sep 11 01:00:39 heneral opinion seems to be you have tok adapt every single audio app to the target platform, possibly patching original sourcecode to care about mixer settings, resource arbitration and whatnot. Not my idea of a portable system, but meh Sep 11 01:03:23 we got PA, the mesias. Knows how to deal with every single problem. Too bad it seems not to work that flawlessly Sep 11 01:15:41 It does! Sep 11 01:15:52 It's just you can't have the vrersion that works flawlessly Sep 11 01:18:57 what does Sep 11 01:24:29 The fixed versionof pulseaudio Sep 11 01:24:43 heh Sep 11 01:24:53 just mentioning exactly that elsewhere Sep 11 01:26:27 imagine maemo dialer Han app you got no source and just maybe can define the audio device: alsa:phonedialer-ring:0.0) executes an arbitrary script that does all you want, on simply snd_open() Sep 11 01:28:33 Hthere's libs using ld_preload you even can tweak PA and OSS based apps, as well as brainfsckd apps with ALSA default hardcoded, to use arbitrary audio dev) Sep 11 01:30:11 google for fsoraw, then start to dream Sep 11 01:30:42 audio is a resource like any other Sep 11 01:33:20 per-contact-ringtone is a decent hack on the call process Sep 11 01:33:25 there's a prototype of a method that's not a wrapper but a device similar to my ALSA plugin which executes arbitrary executables on snd_open() / snd_close() Sep 11 01:33:31 not perfect but it suffices Sep 11 01:36:24 lcukn900: does it work for SIP calls? Sep 11 01:36:45 idk try it Sep 11 01:37:24 marco wrote it and I believe it should cater for as much as possible Sep 11 01:38:45 lcukn900: how does arbitrary alarm-to-wakeup app magage to know how to keep N900 screen backlight on during playback of rintone? Sep 11 01:39:35 theres numerous methods to keep light on afaik Sep 11 01:39:38 http://maemo.org/packages/view/per-contact-ringtones/ Sep 11 01:39:54 how does same app know to mute fmrx radio? Sep 11 01:40:29 lcu every single one of those methods needs sourcecode patches Sep 11 01:40:33 probably didnt when it was first written but got modified to fix a bug.. Sep 11 01:40:35 blaaarrrrgh Sep 11 01:41:01 yup Sep 11 01:42:22 * lcukn900 sleeps Sep 11 01:42:34 nn doc Sep 11 01:42:56 based on my idea you ship original app with a config to use alsa:myspecialapp:0.0 and you simply ship a alsarc file to define exactly that device, plus a plugin that starts an arbitrary executable Sep 11 01:44:07 on opening alsa:myspecialapp:0.0 Sep 11 01:44:30 plus a second one on closing same audio device Sep 11 01:50:34 the executable started on snd_open() (let's call it a script) may send a signal to all processes which havem an open handle to snd_playback_mp3music alsa audio device Sep 11 01:53:17 or it talks to a central resourcek arbiter daemon, which knows how to either make running tasks mute or stop, or alternatively return(1) which makes the snd-open() call fail so app knows there's some higher prio audio blocking the hardware Sep 11 01:58:16 it's almost as versatile as this PA cruft. Only difference is it needs ZERO sourcecode patches Sep 11 01:59:47 you just ship a alsarc file for your app which is defining the unique audio device the app is using Sep 11 02:00:39 plus a script (or set of scripts) that's called when the unique audio dev is opened rsp closed Sep 11 02:02:29 aah, and (C) of all this ny me, use as you like but please metion me somewhere Sep 11 02:02:47 DOes anyone know of a way to see the distribution of 1, 2 .. 5 star ratings for an individual app in the Extras repository? Sep 11 02:06:34 any new updates for N900 maemo? Sep 11 02:44:22 Anyone knows any faster way to check remaining battery than using hal-device? Sep 11 02:46:25 maybe is it in a redable /proc or /sys file? Sep 11 02:47:36 you can make a module that exposes it in /sys Sep 11 02:48:12 luke, without going that far :P Sep 11 02:48:17 then no Sep 11 02:48:48 It's just that grepping hal-device for battery percentage repeteadly is too much load for my script Sep 11 02:49:22 mmmm, ok, then I just store the result and display that Sep 11 02:49:51 it is not going to change for a while Sep 11 02:50:07 thx Sep 11 02:57:59 guys, whats the best theme for N900? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 11 02:59:57 2010