**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 13 02:59:58 2010 Sep 13 03:20:56 ShadSEC: if you wanted open/Linux on a phone, that's the Freerunner Sep 13 03:21:00 ShadSEC: N900 isn't a phone Sep 13 03:27:10 * SpeedEvil stabs luke-jr with a mouldy bananna named sue. Sep 13 03:29:20 SpeedEvil: sue as in lawsuit or sue as in "a boy named Sue" Sep 13 03:30:40 Yes. Sep 13 03:51:38 Exploration teams are advised that the Chicago Police in 1875 react with hostility towards the use of grappling guns and rope ladders to re-enter SCP-982; since all changes are eliminated at the reset, the use of lethal force is fully sanctioned with no risk to the timeline. Sep 13 03:54:16 RST38h: read Palimpsest? Also, watched 'Lost Room'? Sep 13 03:56:37 hello, how can I install Enhanced power kernel via wget? or apt-get? Sep 13 03:57:48 lolloo: have you seen this? http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power Sep 13 03:58:33 google search terms: titan power kernel Sep 13 03:58:35 first result Sep 13 03:59:23 ~lart Sep 13 03:59:35 ~power-kernel Sep 13 04:00:43 power-kernel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power Sep 13 04:00:53 johnx: trouble is, most of these shows feel weak after reading scp Sep 13 04:01:00 not all though, Fringe still rules Sep 13 04:01:51 Palimpsest is a book by Charles Stross, and it's pretty fantastic, though somewhat hard to keep track of unless one is paying attention Sep 13 04:02:30 anyways, I liked Lost Room a lot, but I think part of that was stumbling on it by accident with absolutely no expectations Sep 13 04:02:35 Amazon says Catherynne Valente Sep 13 04:02:54 checking Charles Stross... Sep 13 04:14:21 infobot: power-kernel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power Sep 13 04:14:21 johnx: okay Sep 13 05:07:01 i think i bricked my n810, i get no boot screen at all, no led activity, its like its dead Sep 13 05:07:49 frenchy: what did you do to it? Sep 13 05:08:34 i tried to install mamona on it Sep 13 05:08:54 also, usual suggestions apply: remove battery, let sit for a couple minutes, reinert battery. let it charge overnight (even if it doesn't look like it's charging). If you have another charger, use it. if you have another battery, try it. Sep 13 05:09:16 do you have a log of the flash process? Sep 13 05:10:03 johnx, no i dont, im assuing thats a command line argument you have to specify? Sep 13 05:10:42 i do have another battery coming in the mail and i will remove this one for a few min Sep 13 05:10:50 sorry, I didn't mean a real log file, I just meant if you still had the output of the flasher program on the screen Sep 13 05:11:22 johnx, no i booted into windows to try and flash it there, still no dice Sep 13 05:11:35 bummer Sep 13 05:11:35 meh. anyone experiences charset issues in n8x0 with non-ascii locale on google search? Sep 13 05:11:36 s/n8x0/n8x0 microb/ Sep 13 05:11:37 slonopotamus meant: meh. anyone experiences charset issues in n8x0 microb with non-ascii locale on google search? Sep 13 05:11:59 do these things get bricked often? Sep 13 05:12:03 frenchy: did you already try flashing back to maemo from linux? Sep 13 05:12:32 frenchy: bricking is extremely rare as far as I know, but there are a couple situations in which they can 'appear' to be bricked Sep 13 05:12:34 johnx, i cant get any kind of response from the device at all, so my pc wont recognize it Sep 13 05:12:49 ie, the battery charge is too low to turn on, or it's gotten in a bad state and hasn't actually shut down Sep 13 05:13:47 johnx, the battery is pretty charged, what the solution if its in a bad state and hasnt shut down? this happened when trying to install mamona so that is possible Sep 13 05:14:37 that's why you'd leave the battery out for a couple minutes, so that all the capacitors drain and all the circuitry *really* turns off Sep 13 05:14:55 johnx, ok thats what im doing now Sep 13 05:15:13 johnx, how long should i leave it Sep 13 05:15:24 <- not an EE Sep 13 05:15:30 maybe 30 seconds to a minute or so? Sep 13 05:15:38 johnx, and what should i do when i put it back in Sep 13 05:15:39 so you flashed mamona with the flasher program in linux and it never booted again? is that right? Sep 13 05:15:52 put the battery back in and try and turn it on :) Sep 13 05:16:27 johnx, yeah thats right, i couldnt get the flasher on te mamona site to work so i tried the maemo flasher with the created mamona image which was probably pretty stupid Sep 13 05:17:22 its still dead Sep 13 05:17:57 did you flash the whole image with '-F' or just a kernel '-k' and/or initrd/rootfs? Sep 13 05:19:07 -F Sep 13 05:19:21 yeah, -F means flash the bootloader as well Sep 13 05:19:44 flashing a bad bootloader is pretty much the only way to *really* brick an N8x0 (again, AFAIK) Sep 13 05:20:39 johnx, is there anyway to fix it Sep 13 05:21:12 Nokia has access to the tools to do a cold flash. if I recall, that involves some custom hardware Sep 13 05:21:47 if you could find someone with access to that, you might be able to get them to reflash it back to maemo for you Sep 13 05:21:51 * johnx is just guessing though Sep 13 05:23:56 johnx, i read that and thats what i was afraid of Sep 13 05:26:04 sorry I don't have better news :/ Sep 13 06:08:34 what is tracket-extract and why is it taking so much cpu? Sep 13 06:09:53 what is tracker-extract and why is it taking so much cpu? Sep 13 06:18:33 tracker is a cpu hog that's supposed to give you info about media files Sep 13 06:18:56 used by Photos and media player Sep 13 06:19:43 ideally it should help you, but it just rapes your cpu until you stop using your n900 as a media player entirely Sep 13 06:19:53 even more than pulseaudio Sep 13 06:20:42 kerio, you're doing it wrong. my tracker is nice and quiet unless I add some media files. Then it does something for a second or two. then it's quiet again. Sep 13 06:20:44 lol Sep 13 06:21:03 mece: my tracker pretends he's indexing constantly Sep 13 06:21:12 even when i put *no* new media files anywhere Sep 13 06:21:30 kerio, perhaps you should put more media fils there.. to keep her happy :) Sep 13 06:21:38 s/fils/files/ Sep 13 06:21:38 mece meant: kerio, perhaps you should put more media files there.. to keep her happy :) Sep 13 06:21:57 my ass Sep 13 06:22:17 i'll probably move to canola Sep 13 06:23:50 is it stuck on one file? Sep 13 06:24:01 I put all my media files in a mount it doesn't know about :> Sep 13 06:35:55 hi, I've an issue with the boot procedure Sep 13 06:36:18 I installed multiboot Sep 13 06:36:29 and then it didn't boot my new kernel Sep 13 06:36:42 but then I've messed up with fiasco Sep 13 06:36:48 now the state is: Sep 13 06:36:52 u-boot boots Sep 13 06:36:57 if I flash it Sep 13 06:37:06 like a kernel image Sep 13 06:37:13 u-boot = http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/u-boot.bin Sep 13 06:37:33 but if I flash my own u-boot it doesn't work Sep 13 06:37:45 s/#http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/u-boot.bin#http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/# Sep 13 06:38:05 also if I flash my own kernel it stays on the nokia screen Sep 13 06:38:26 doesn't work means it freeze when booting the kernel Sep 13 06:38:38 just before loading the uImage Sep 13 06:39:49 but I can run u-boot commands Sep 13 06:59:37 http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/010/09/arm_unveils_cortex_a15_mpcore_processor.html Sep 13 06:59:39 holy shit Sep 13 06:59:46 2.5ghz mobile cu Sep 13 06:59:50 cpu Sep 13 07:02:23 well, the *design* for a 2.5GHz CPU Sep 13 07:02:40 Even now we're only just starting to see Cortex A9s appearing in actual products Sep 13 07:02:57 well most smartphones have them Sep 13 07:03:09 Cortex A9s? Sep 13 07:03:12 specialy nokias Sep 13 07:03:16 which ones? Sep 13 07:03:46 For some reason I thought nokia was still using the A8 / OMAP3430 in their high end stuff Sep 13 07:03:53 humm n900 use amr a8 Sep 13 07:04:42 hi, Sep 13 07:05:02 I've flashed u-boot as kernel image Sep 13 07:05:22 humm samsungs use amr a8 to of 1ghz Sep 13 07:05:29 and /dev/ttyACM0 doesn't appear when I set usb console Sep 13 07:05:54 well there are amr of 1.5ghz phones Sep 13 07:06:08 Chibi-Taiga: but do any of them use an *A9*? Sep 13 07:06:16 no Sep 13 07:06:32 not that i see in spec Sep 13 07:07:11 but 2.ghz they should directly go of to quad core 3.2ghz =^.^;= Sep 13 07:07:41 right, and the Cortex A9 was announced before the N900 was actually released, AFAICT Sep 13 07:07:54 they could say mini laptop phones Sep 13 07:07:59 vanjoki resigns Sep 13 07:07:59 yeah Sep 13 07:08:06 i thought it was a9 Sep 13 07:08:08 my bad Sep 13 07:08:12 mece: yeah.. talk of the morning Sep 13 07:08:22 hm Sep 13 07:08:25 so we're looking at a lag of 1 - 1.5 years between the announcement of an ARM CPU design and actual shipping products Sep 13 07:08:27 but yeah n900 is already old Sep 13 07:08:33 Stskeeps, I hope jaaksi still sticks around Sep 13 07:08:43 GNUtoo|laptop: sorry. no idea :/ Sep 13 07:08:52 mece: i guess everything's up for bets - but the question is if symbian guys stay on Sep 13 07:08:55 :P Sep 13 07:09:23 also I've wrong image format for bootm Sep 13 07:09:24 ok Sep 13 07:09:52 I guess there's a pretty good, albeit difficult job up for grabs then :) Sep 13 07:10:52 ah maybe I got it for bootm Sep 13 07:15:15 they should make phones with detachable cpu >_> Sep 13 07:20:15 Chibi-Taiga: fine, but they'd be as big as a laptop and cost more than $1,000 Sep 13 07:20:31 i said mini pc Sep 13 07:20:35 laptop w/e Sep 13 07:20:52 look at it why need 2.5ghz dualcore phones Sep 13 07:21:03 huh? Sep 13 07:21:05 they dont make it just for fun or photograpic Sep 13 07:21:30 i doubt calling or web surfing needs 2.5ghz Sep 13 07:22:11 they just should stop making cpus and say guys here is a viop with a netbook/laptop Sep 13 07:24:06 what happend to the 12mp cameras btw , all i see new models use 5mp at max Sep 13 07:24:26 more megapixels is not necessarily better Sep 13 07:24:28 the only one i know is sonyericsson Sep 13 07:24:37 i know Sep 13 07:24:45 but still what happend to them Sep 13 07:24:55 n8 has one Sep 13 07:25:21 n8 doesnt look that great for me though Sep 13 07:25:31 i rather go samsung for my next phone Sep 13 07:25:48 probably companies realized that they generally weren't a good value proposition, and that people didn't by phones based on the number of megapixels the camera had Sep 13 07:26:19 no most ppl buy it for things like "pingen" on blackberries w/e they are called Sep 13 07:26:28 or they go for iphones Sep 13 07:26:35 witch totaly sux though Sep 13 07:27:25 i dont get it why iphone Sep 13 07:27:31 ppl are totaly in love with it Sep 13 07:27:43 but they pay for crapphone instead Sep 13 07:27:48 witch they dont know Sep 13 07:28:26 marketing may have something to do with it :) Sep 13 07:29:01 hmmm Sep 13 07:29:04 mmc init blocks Sep 13 07:29:10 mmc init 0 say no card found Sep 13 07:29:12 my cousin to he wanted so bad an iphone and now he see the troubles the phone givves Sep 13 07:29:12 I'll check Sep 13 07:30:12 Chibi-Taiga, indeed maemo is far better than iphone but I only tried an old ipod touch Sep 13 07:30:26 the only issue is that it needs a stylus Sep 13 07:31:18 well, the iphones sux, the onlything thats great is the ipc display Sep 13 07:31:22 the rest totaly sux Sep 13 07:31:26 ips* Sep 13 07:31:55 but ppl are just stupid to buy apple stuff realy Sep 13 07:32:05 onepice junk Sep 13 07:32:24 way over priced for the hw you get Sep 13 07:34:58 also apply and it lame audio formats like alac, its as bad as mp3 Sep 13 07:42:53 so will nokai continue in maeo phones? Sep 13 07:42:55 maemo Sep 13 07:43:00 nokia Sep 13 07:43:30 they're working on a successor to maemo: meego Sep 13 07:43:42 i see Sep 13 07:44:00 so maemo wasnt populair enough Sep 13 07:44:34 they only changed the name, because they're in a partnership with intel to develop meego and they didn't want to confuse people by keeping the same name Sep 13 07:44:48 intell eh Sep 13 07:44:56 sounds cool Sep 13 07:45:10 intel b is a big comapny that pwnes amd Sep 13 07:45:18 intel* Sep 13 07:45:18 meego is going to be awesome Sep 13 07:45:35 ofcource it will if intell is behind it Sep 13 07:45:40 intel Sep 13 07:46:44 but i wonder if they will be affortable Sep 13 07:47:01 as far as i know intel (cpu) they always start overpriced Sep 13 07:47:16 like 1000 euro for an i7 920 Sep 13 07:48:22 if they were that much, it was just the shop ripping you off Sep 13 07:48:24 uhm, intel and nokia are working together on the software. the next several (at least) nokia phones will definitely be using ARM CPUs Sep 13 07:48:29 no Sep 13 07:48:33 yes Sep 13 07:48:33 most whops Sep 13 07:48:37 shops Sep 13 07:48:54 I got my 920 like 3 weeks after they were released, cost me like £250 Sep 13 07:49:01 they start off 999 dollar or euro Sep 13 07:49:25 well remind you , europe aint cheap specialy if you live in the netherlands Sep 13 07:49:35 ofjust like n900 Sep 13 07:49:48 549 dollar bcame 549 euro Sep 13 07:49:57 thats twice as mutch Sep 13 07:50:03 yeah, and 920's were like 400 dollars Sep 13 07:50:05 1.3 * Sep 13 07:50:20 400 dollars doesnt become 1000 euros unless the shop's ripping you off hand over fist Sep 13 07:51:10 http://www.alternate.nl/html/categoryListing.html?cat1=3&cat2=426&cat3=0&bfbox=0&&tn=HARDWARE&l1=Processoren&l2=Desktop&l3=Socket+1366& Sep 13 07:51:18 rite now they dont even sell 920 anymore Sep 13 07:51:33 but all new stuff starts off 1k Sep 13 07:51:35 euro Sep 13 07:51:44 and this is the cheapest shop in my country Sep 13 08:06:41 'morning #maemo Sep 13 08:06:58 hey crashanddie Sep 13 08:07:13 My Gmail account was hacked last night Sep 13 08:07:19 Guess they brute-forced the password or something Sep 13 08:07:33 guess your password wasn't very good then Sep 13 08:07:42 Relatively, just old Sep 13 08:07:45 gmail has no brute-force protection? Sep 13 08:07:58 crashanddie: it should have a list of where it's been signed onto recently Sep 13 08:08:07 johnx: yeah, that was only updated this morning Sep 13 08:08:30 johnx: last night, around 7PM I noticed like 200 bounces in my inbox, looked in the outbox, and saw some 1200 outgoing phishing attempts Sep 13 08:08:32 my wife's was hacked and it looked like they got in through the mobile interface or something like that Sep 13 08:08:43 checked the connections immediately, nothing showed up Sep 13 08:09:00 that may be just joe-job Sep 13 08:09:24 nidO: they do on the main web interface, but it might not be up-to-snuff on one of the other interfaces or something like that Sep 13 08:09:52 signed out all sessions, changed password, signed out all sessions again, deleted all the emails as spam, then GMail locked me out of the account, until I provided them with a french phone number where they sent a text to Sep 13 08:10:36 this morning, I had plenty of alerts telling me about "suspicious activity", I checked the connection log, and they were from last night (prior to my noticing it) Sep 13 08:10:43 crashanddie: didn't use the same password somewhere else or something like that? Sep 13 08:10:46 nope Sep 13 08:10:54 what was the password? Sep 13 08:11:37 random character string with specific letters upper case, followed by 6 digits Sep 13 08:12:20 something like: fOoBAR8391846 Sep 13 08:12:29 unlikely it was brute forced Sep 13 08:12:33 very unlikely that this could be bruteforced Sep 13 08:12:38 I dunno then Sep 13 08:12:41 not with rate limiting that gmail applies Sep 13 08:12:50 what os are you using? Sep 13 08:12:53 OSX Sep 13 08:12:54 maybe you logged in somewhere and saved the creds? Sep 13 08:12:57 jacekowski: but do they apply it equally to all their interfaces? Sep 13 08:13:09 or the browser was configured to save them or something equally dumb Sep 13 08:13:19 no, I never store the credentials Sep 13 08:13:23 but I did give them once to LinkedIn Sep 13 08:13:26 not you, but if you used some other computer Sep 13 08:13:31 johnx: yes Sep 13 08:13:49 joga: I ususally go to private mode when using someone else's computer Sep 13 08:13:58 but yeah, I guess it could've happened Sep 13 08:14:10 it's surprising though, I haven't used somebody else's computer in weeks Sep 13 08:14:20 hi, how do I restore the default kernel, I'll try to flash it Sep 13 08:14:21 The only thing I can think of was the public computer in Bangkok Sep 13 08:14:41 but that was months ago (January) Sep 13 08:14:50 well, they are patient Sep 13 08:15:02 I guess Sep 13 08:15:09 these passwords go to their big database Sep 13 08:15:12 and may be never used Sep 13 08:15:22 relatively harmless though, just 1200 emails sent, and a couple hundred bounces Sep 13 08:15:35 maybe it took a while for them to program a spambot to utilize them :) Sep 13 08:15:49 1200 is what, the hourly rate of a regular windows box in a granny's living room? Sep 13 08:15:56 thats wierd my n900 dont see my wifi anymore Sep 13 08:15:58 my wife's account got hacked during a wave of gmail hacks in ~april (same timeframe as this: http://slashdot.org/story/10/04/20/2235257/Escalating-GmailSpamming-Attacks ) Sep 13 08:16:34 I've had that account and password since what, the second week GMail launched? Sep 13 08:16:51 I guess it was bound to happen at some point... Ironic for a security expert to never change his passwords, eh? Sep 13 08:16:53 yeah, many opportunities to keylog it Sep 13 08:16:57 it's also possible that they were sitting on the credentials until they'd collected enough, then used them all in one shot Sep 13 08:17:21 johnx: well they should stop using python/java for their bloody spambots, 1200 in a whole afternoon is seriously slow Sep 13 08:17:36 Morning, all Sep 13 08:17:39 crashanddie: not on gmail Sep 13 08:17:43 crashanddie: ratelimit and stuff Sep 13 08:17:45 hmm Sep 13 08:17:53 crashanddie: they might be trying to stay below some magic number that google is looking for *shrugs* Sep 13 08:17:54 Jaffa: morning Jaffa, how's it going, sir? Sep 13 08:18:10 if you go over certain number of e-mails they will ask you to solve captcha Sep 13 08:18:35 well, how about they ask you to solve a captcha the third time you try to send an email that's 99% different then the previous Sep 13 08:18:41 s/then/than/ Sep 13 08:18:43 crashanddie meant: well, how about they ask you to solve a captcha the third time you try to send an email that's 99% different than the previous Sep 13 08:18:51 err, 99% the same Sep 13 08:18:57 Sep 13 08:19:15 they do email scanning and whatnot, why not put it to good use? Sep 13 08:19:20 crashanddie: Similar to ever. Got an existing client's big bosses coming in for a two day architectural assessment for a wider rollout Sep 13 08:19:23 if they did that, spam senders would just go back to sending a single message and bccing it to 20,000 people Sep 13 08:20:01 nidO: then ask a captcha if you're BCC'ing over 10 people who aren't in your address book. Sep 13 08:20:08 * johnx wanted to check prices at a local store before ordering from newegg, but was thwarted by the fact that the local computer store's web server is down :| Sep 13 08:20:22 Jaffa: sounds fun Sep 13 08:20:28 at which point the spam senders would alter their scripts to add all the addresses to your address book first Sep 13 08:20:48 crashanddie: check your computer for rootkits and stuff Sep 13 08:20:50 which google would counter and the spam senders would counter-counter ad infinitum until theres captchas just to click a link Sep 13 08:21:05 Jaffa: I'm writing doc for a script I wrote last week. I sent out a draft for review last friday, just had a couple of people come in the office "Wow, where did you learn to write such good documents?" "Erhm, it was just the template, there's barely any content" Sep 13 08:21:40 Apparently this company has never seen a document with a table of contents being produced by a techie Sep 13 08:22:11 Jaffa: enjoy the walking-on-eggs with the big cheese though. Sep 13 08:29:12 wierd my n900 dont spot my wifi router Sep 13 08:29:51 although it spot my 2nd wifi router Sep 13 08:30:16 GNUtoo|laptop, Sep 13 08:30:18 ~flashing Sep 13 08:30:18 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 13 08:30:26 thanks Sep 13 08:30:27 Lucchini: did it used to? Sep 13 08:30:31 but my main one have worked on my n900 Sep 13 08:30:57 my other phone spot it and so does my netbook Sep 13 08:31:02 obvious question: did you change anything on the router? Sep 13 08:31:11 nope nothing Sep 13 08:31:25 merlin1991: "~tell about " Sep 13 08:32:10 thx crashanddie, didn't know that Sep 13 08:35:18 changing channel dont work also Sep 13 08:37:46 so does that mean the wifi is blocked on my 9pp Sep 13 08:37:49 900 Sep 13 08:39:01 Lucchini: had you not lived in Holland, I'd have asked if your first name were "Fabrice" Sep 13 08:39:47 crashanddie: heh Sep 13 08:40:11 im friom nl yes but no im chibi-taiga Sep 13 08:40:34 and by the looks of your spelling, you have just lit up. Sep 13 08:40:48 lol Sep 13 08:40:58 no n900 kb is to small Sep 13 08:42:06 y u ask Sep 13 08:45:33 anyways anyone know why it dont spot my b/g/n router? Sep 13 08:46:09 Lucchini: ssid is hidden ? Sep 13 08:46:20 Lucchini: try adding it by hand ;) Sep 13 08:46:28 nope like i said my other deviceds see it Sep 13 08:46:37 no support for n in n900 Sep 13 08:46:53 i added it manual but i cant swelect it to connect Sep 13 08:47:00 select* Sep 13 08:48:13 i know its automatic 300mbit b g n Sep 13 08:48:32 change it to b/g only Sep 13 08:48:38 its a tp link Sep 13 08:48:55 the other one is alinksys wrt54g Sep 13 08:50:18 ill try later imn not home atm Sep 13 08:50:41 but strange for n900 to not spot it Sep 13 08:51:03 even the n95 spot it Sep 13 08:56:07 HellOlAloHallOhayo.. I HI.. Sep 13 08:56:34 hey Sep 13 09:09:56 ArkAnGiCIA: may I suggest a more humble form of speech? Sep 13 09:10:24 crashanddie: are you against cultural diversity? Sep 13 09:10:29 yes Sep 13 09:10:50 and you banned me for racism Sep 13 09:11:01 yes Sep 13 09:11:48 jacekowski: those two points are not in contradiction ;) Sep 13 09:12:55 obviously, crashanddie has taken the hypocritic oath: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/01/10/ Sep 13 09:14:45 I don't think I'm being hypocrite by asking someone to not type WiTh CapITaLs AlL OvEr Sep 13 09:15:11 yeah you are. you just did *exactly* the same thing :P Sep 13 09:15:29 it was for academic purpose Sep 13 09:15:34 which shields me from any blame Sep 13 09:15:47 well, that and the hypocritic oath Sep 13 09:16:41 * crashanddie cries Sep 13 09:16:57 my work here is done :D Sep 13 09:17:29 Hello everyone ! Sep 13 09:17:38 mornin' Khertan Sep 13 09:17:39 * crashanddie steals johnx's n800's keyboard Sep 13 09:17:50 'Jour Khertan Sep 13 09:18:11 mornin johnx Sep 13 09:18:13 crashanddie: that's actually somewhat plausible. I don't actually know where it is right now >_< Sep 13 09:18:21 et bonjour a toi crashanddie Sep 13 09:20:15 * Khertan is loosing time trying to understand why his pyqt app segfault when it s exit Sep 13 09:21:10 wow, I think I just achieved first post on slashdot Sep 13 09:25:04 well, it sure looks that way Sep 13 09:25:10 * crashanddie high-fives self Sep 13 09:26:13 sorry for french : LES FRANCAIS SE CROIENT SEULS AU MONDE PEUT ETRE ? mais ils sont mabouls dans leurs tetes ils cherchent quoi encore comme merde ces batards ? Sep 13 09:27:46 ArkAnGiCIA: as much as I love to criticise the French, there's no need for such off-topic insults, especially when one of the operators of the channel lives in France. Sep 13 09:28:21 PM me once you're ready to have a decent conversation. Sep 13 09:28:34 Wow. It sure looks like the Nokia's Ovi service is finally kicking into action. Sep 13 09:29:00 First beta-tester of the new service was Kallasvuo, secord was Vanjoki. Sep 13 09:29:18 (Ovi == Door, in Finnish. HTH.) Sep 13 09:30:13 X-Fade: was he spamming in other channels as well? Sep 13 09:30:21 crashanddie: Yes. Sep 13 09:30:24 k Sep 13 09:30:46 #meego too. Sep 13 09:31:05 how can I charge the battery if I can't power on the device? Sep 13 09:31:16 GNUtoo|laptop: just plug it in Sep 13 09:31:25 GNUtoo|laptop: it will do an "emergency" charge for 32 minutes or so Sep 13 09:31:28 ok Sep 13 09:31:34 usb or power plug? Sep 13 09:31:35 GNUtoo|laptop: (always on yellow led) Sep 13 09:31:38 power plug Sep 13 09:31:44 ahh ok I was on usb Sep 13 09:31:58 well, USB should do too, but power plug has more oomph Sep 13 09:32:11 without having to account for computer providing enough juice etc Sep 13 09:32:24 GNUtoo|laptop: basically, every half hour, unplug and replug Sep 13 09:32:30 ok thanks a lot Sep 13 09:32:38 GNUtoo|laptop: keep going until the yellow charging light starts blinking Sep 13 09:32:51 once it's blinking, it means there's enough battery to boot the n900 (keep it charging though) Sep 13 09:41:35 Someone have an idea on how i can debug a pyqt program that cause a segfault ? (pdb segfault too) Sep 13 09:42:15 Khertan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-qt4/+bug/561303 Sep 13 09:42:27 "PyQt4 applications crash at exit" Sep 13 09:45:52 how do i open a connection in xterm? i'd like to make a script that opens ssh connection but it doesn't automatically open internet connection Sep 13 09:46:09 crashanddie, thx Sep 13 09:46:34 Noma, the easier way : use dbus Sep 13 09:47:18 hey, I dd'ed over my eMMC (by mistake :P), can I only flash the eMMC image or I need to flash the whole thing? Sep 13 09:49:17 bef0rd: firmware too. Sep 13 09:49:56 :( thanks Sep 13 09:51:30 Firmware moves things to opt on emmc on first boot. Sep 13 09:52:36 which also means that you lost any app that had optified any of its data ... Sep 13 10:04:09 I see, btw, I'm not sure should I get the USA release or the Global Release? I am not in USA but my device is from USA I believe Sep 13 10:04:10 snark snark snark... first post AND insightful :D http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/09/13/0446226 Sep 13 10:06:20 bef0rd: Global should be fine. Sep 13 10:08:12 crashanddie: Slashdot editors need a clue. Sep 13 10:08:32 SpeedEvil: editors or moderators? Sep 13 10:08:44 mods probably Sep 13 10:08:49 http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/09/12/2213217/Is-DIY-Algae-Farming-the-Future - for example. Sep 13 10:09:01 hmm Sep 13 10:09:07 thanks again X-Fade Sep 13 10:09:13 Reading the linked source carefully, the originator actually eats 'quite a lot' of algae - 15g. Sep 13 10:09:16 vibrate not working Sep 13 10:09:17 a day Sep 13 10:09:24 's at a common problem? Sep 13 10:09:44 Trying to bisect if I've installed some app that fucks it up or if indeed the HW is broken. Sep 13 10:09:46 SpeedEvil: editors then. Moderators are the readers who also moderate the comment system. Editors are those who write the stories and summaries. Sep 13 10:09:59 MohammadAG51 supposedly had a similar problem Sep 13 10:10:04 but, lunch & Sep 13 10:19:26 does this page look fucked up to anyone else? http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE68C09V20100913 Sep 13 10:22:28 crashanddie, http://i53.tinypic.com/2ds2rsi.png looks fux0red too Sep 13 10:22:43 k Sep 13 10:38:29 tybollt: MohammadAG51 had debris inside device, blocking the vib excenter Sep 13 10:38:40 i got a strange scrolling bug where the viewport doesn't seems to come back to it s original position : http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/2431/2228c0f14fda48059d61bf4f85b4e687.jpg : it s with a qt qlistview Sep 13 10:38:55 someone have an ide Sep 13 10:39:00 idea ? Sep 13 10:41:58 How is that wlancond/icd2 dbus talk isnt showing in dbus-monitor and how could I see it? Sep 13 10:42:08 besides strings... Sep 13 10:42:19 i mean strace Sep 13 10:45:16 I can see the requests using strace, but I haven't been able convert that format for use with dbus-send... and also I wonder why it is not showing in dbus-monitor Sep 13 10:50:44 ShadSEC: you're aware there two busses? session "d system Sep 13 10:52:20 yep, i tried them both Sep 13 10:52:22 there are more? Sep 13 10:52:39 no Sep 13 10:52:43 its yesterday when i started playing with dbus, so please forgive my ignorance Sep 13 10:53:06 well, then how do you explain the requests show in strace but not in dbus-monitor? Sep 13 10:53:40 one interesting thing is that the request seem to be destined to itself Sep 13 10:54:07 but i am unsure if that matters Sep 13 10:55:15 I am assuming that using dbus-monitor --system and dbus-monitor --session should be enough Sep 13 10:55:41 yep Sep 13 10:55:53 well, they never show up there Sep 13 10:56:47 I am also assuming that if it has the format dbus uses (com.nokia.wlancond et etc) it must be a dbus request.. Sep 13 10:57:06 well, session is something user- or xsession-specific. take care Sep 13 10:57:51 yes, I have seen --session stuff is probably useless for this, anyway i tried them both Sep 13 10:58:49 (many times I must add, I am desperate now) Sep 13 11:03:45 read(4, "l\1\0\1@\0\0\0M\6\0\0\266\0\0\0\1\1o\0\33\0\0\0/com/nokia/wlancond/request\0\0\0\0\0\6\1s\0\22\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond\0\0\0\0\0\0\2\1s\0\32\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond.request\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\1s\0\24\0\0\0settings_and_connect\0\0\0\ ...etc... it does look like a dbus request isn't it? Sep 13 11:05:28 somewhat it does, yes Sep 13 11:05:34 yes it dooes Sep 13 11:06:14 so it should show up in dbus monitor, shouldnt it? mmmm Sep 13 11:06:21 usually Sep 13 11:06:40 ahh, usually? what do you mean now? what are the exceptions? Sep 13 11:06:49 except if dbus lib might do some foo Sep 13 11:06:56 a filter? Sep 13 11:06:59 soory, no idea Sep 13 11:07:08 talking out of my ass Sep 13 11:07:19 complete dbus noob Sep 13 11:07:48 but it makes some sense, at first I also thought about some way to hide internal stuff like this but... uh, i donno Sep 13 11:08:00 I know there's also some policy stuff, somewhere in /etc/dbus, but it shouldn't matter aiui Sep 13 11:09:03 theres a setting as DocScrutinizer says that controls how much snooping is allowed via dbus-monitor or something similar iirc Sep 13 11:09:27 Now when facebrick dev is going tits up - Is there any other facebook clients around? Sep 13 11:09:39 that would be a very interesting setting :) Sep 13 11:10:50 . Sep 13 11:11:22 this one?: /etc/dbus-1/session.conf Sep 13 11:12:27 Sep 13 11:12:35 somewhere in wiki/debugging there's been a rather funny strace-all command example. I'm quite sure if will bring system to a grinding halt and make your cat explode. But maybe... Sep 13 11:13:32 theres no system.conf maybe i should just cp session.conf system.conf Sep 13 11:14:19 Doc, I will look for it Sep 13 11:14:36 I'm absolutely not sure where and what system is (as what's session for this behalf) Sep 13 11:15:34 maybe system is root's session? Sep 13 11:16:19 strace dbus-daemon? Sep 13 11:16:42 * DocScrutinizer51 hates dbus, sometimes Sep 13 11:16:45 it seems to me that session are gui related stuff, and system are systemwide related stuff.. at least that what its showing Sep 13 11:17:06 yep, ack so far Sep 13 11:19:42 dbus-monitor isnt accessing any conf file... so it may be a different process with use that eavesdrop policy, maybe the main daemon Sep 13 11:20:19 mmmm, yeah, I will see this time if dbus-monitor is reading the request but not showing Sep 13 11:20:30 dbus-monitor is connecting to daemon. daemon is in control of everything Sep 13 11:20:45 mmm, strace daemon :) Sep 13 11:20:53 strace dbus-daemon? Sep 13 11:21:11 yes? I havent tried that yet Sep 13 11:22:09 (this was a repost) Sep 13 11:25:16 is there ltrace? Sep 13 11:25:37 yes Sep 13 11:25:40 let's check Sep 13 11:25:47 :-) Sep 13 11:25:48 but i think not in repo Sep 13 11:25:52 but that tool exists Sep 13 11:25:59 jacekowski: where else? Sep 13 11:26:02 if that's what you are asking Sep 13 11:26:44 jacekowski: of course I implied "for maemo" :) Sep 13 11:27:09 I know there exist a tool called ltrace Sep 13 11:27:29 in this universe, for linux even Sep 13 11:27:32 stracing dbus-daemon was a great idea, now i am starting to understand how it works Sep 13 11:27:51 great Sep 13 11:27:53 ltrace is in repos Sep 13 11:28:11 Get:1 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free ltrace 0.5+svn20070904-0.1maemo1 [80.2kB] Sep 13 11:28:43 tools, k Sep 13 11:31:02 DocScrutinizer51: department of freaky problems... debris inside the phone? :S Sep 13 11:31:39 DocScrutinizer51: anyway, so the vibrator not working is far and few between? Sep 13 11:32:05 err please rephrase Sep 13 11:32:35 My problem is I really can't pinpoint when it stopped working... Sep 13 11:33:58 for moh it was random iirc. he fixed it by running vib for a night :-D Sep 13 11:34:16 continously? Sep 13 11:34:19 Vibrator has several issues. Sep 13 11:34:24 afaik yep Sep 13 11:34:26 It's mechanical, and may fail. Sep 13 11:34:42 And it is connected to the PCB with springs, which may fail. Sep 13 11:34:44 had it stuck a lot while i was on vacation Sep 13 11:34:51 but, you know, sand Sep 13 11:34:53 good to know the vibrator can stand that Sep 13 11:34:55 SpeedEvil: sure?? Sep 13 11:34:58 ? Sep 13 11:35:04 Fairly sure Sep 13 11:35:09 does vibrator has the second, mmmm, frivolous meaning? Sep 13 11:35:10 thought it's SMT Sep 13 11:35:11 Or maybe I'm confused. Sep 13 11:35:13 as in russian Sep 13 11:35:23 rmrfchik: yes Sep 13 11:35:28 hehe Sep 13 11:35:53 we're saying "vibra" to not to be cofused Sep 13 11:36:11 vib Sep 13 11:36:48 vib has no root "vibra" and hardly to understand [in russian] Sep 13 11:36:58 the v Sep 13 11:37:07 the \ Sep 13 11:37:11 or the / Sep 13 11:37:23 depends on OS running device Sep 13 11:37:33 the root? :o Sep 13 11:37:48 root of the word. Sep 13 11:38:13 the motor Sep 13 11:38:29 the trrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ;) Sep 13 11:38:30 anyway tale is moh grinded some plastic debris to dust :-D Sep 13 11:38:34 my trrrrrrrrrrrr stop working! Sep 13 11:38:52 so it's not a trrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Sep 13 11:38:54 it's a Sep 13 11:39:23 my sounds like now Sep 13 11:40:15 well, definitely dbus-daemon isnt seeing the requests either Sep 13 11:40:19 hmm, while my sound differently Sep 13 11:40:35 just the same as dbus-monitor is showing Sep 13 11:41:05 ShadSEC: :nod: Sep 13 11:41:21 rmrfchik: high-pitched noise, especially at low speeds? Sep 13 11:41:28 so if it is not going thrugh the dbus-daemon... where is that dbus talk taking place? Sep 13 11:41:56 ShadSEC: maybe it's not dbus ? Sep 13 11:42:07 kerio: lol, you don't get it... or me ;) Sep 13 11:42:10 its dbus format, but maybe not dbus medium Sep 13 11:42:12 might be socks Sep 13 11:42:36 BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH Sep 13 11:42:38 mmmmm Sep 13 11:42:40 check which is filehandle 4 (iirc your paste from above) Sep 13 11:42:41 DocScrutinizer: doc! Sep 13 11:42:43 when my vibra got stuck, i got a high-pitched noise instead of a vibration Sep 13 11:42:48 raster: ~moo Sep 13 11:42:53 ~µ Sep 13 11:43:01 ~moo Sep 13 11:43:02 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Sep 13 11:43:10 DocScrutinizer: add µ as a substitute Sep 13 11:43:32 isn't that "miu" Sep 13 11:43:43 ? Sep 13 11:44:16 also I fail to know by heart where on altGr layer the miu is on my kbd Sep 13 11:45:07 ¹²³¼½¬{[]}\@ł€¶ŧ←↓→øþ¨æßðđŋħjĸł˝«»¢“”nµ Sep 13 11:45:09 HAH Sep 13 11:45:27 µ Sep 13 11:45:39 I'm just blind, it's almost as large as the 'M' on keycap :-P Sep 13 11:45:55 . /tmp/bme-dbus-socket <- it looks like some programs has its own dbus Sep 13 11:46:05 無 Sep 13 11:46:09 む Sep 13 11:46:14 hahaha Sep 13 11:46:24 u Sep 13 11:46:28 µ Sep 13 11:46:28 how can I sniff all sockets traffic? Sep 13 11:47:38 ShadSEC: check for open(4,...) in your strace, to see exactly what handle 4 actually is Sep 13 11:48:22 also lsof might help Sep 13 11:48:31 DocScrutinizer: µ as the greek letter is pronounced like "me" Sep 13 11:48:45 µ as in the SI unit is pronounced like "moo" Sep 13 11:48:47 無 Sep 13 11:48:57 is pronounced Sep 13 11:48:59 "moo" Sep 13 11:49:06 :D Sep 13 11:49:08 micro Sep 13 11:49:13 its also is nothing Sep 13 11:49:19 which adds to the bonus Sep 13 11:49:26 looks like a tank in my font & font size :) Sep 13 11:49:34 nothing as in "the big void"? Sep 13 11:49:39 yup Sep 13 11:49:41 as in Sep 13 11:49:42 nothing Sep 13 11:49:43 http://www.☃.net/ Sep 13 11:49:49 無線 Sep 13 11:50:07 "nothing line" Sep 13 11:50:16 which is actually the japanese for "wireless" Sep 13 11:50:17 :)\ Sep 13 11:50:41 DocScrutinizer, whats does the 4 means? Sep 13 11:50:45 (that's an actual address) Sep 13 11:55:57 ShadSEC: open("/foo/bar"...)=4; read(4...)="this is content of file foo/bar" Sep 13 11:56:20 if I'm not asleep Sep 13 11:56:36 ah yeah Sep 13 11:57:10 its not on my previous partial straces, lets see if I can do a full strace of wlancond starting Sep 13 11:57:21 yep Sep 13 12:03:06 raster: these asian languages and scripts are puzzling the shit outa me. In taiwanese iirc there are different single words for "one " "2 " "3..." etc up to dunno 99 Sep 13 12:03:25 DocScrutinizer: how do you run "vib" then? Sep 13 12:03:35 me?? Sep 13 12:03:46 feh Sep 13 12:03:54 I mean is there an app for it Sep 13 12:04:04 tybollt: what do you want to do? Sep 13 12:04:06 or do you mean the echo 255 > /... thing? Sep 13 12:04:12 yep, sure Sep 13 12:04:32 echo 150 > sys/blah/vib/brightness Sep 13 12:04:33 DocScrutinizer: fix me vibrator so I can get calls in meetings ;) Sep 13 12:05:32 tybollt: you probably should prepend a sleep 1; as otherwise mce is muting vib instantly, due to keykick Sep 13 12:05:36 or sth Sep 13 12:05:38 DocScrutinizer: same as Sep 13 12:05:44 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Sep 13 12:06:10 1pen, 2pen, 3pen, 4pen Sep 13 12:06:18 5th, 65ht, 7th are "regular": until 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 24th etc. Sep 13 12:06:30 in asian langs tho its just a variation Sep 13 12:06:41 instead of per number, it's per type Sep 13 12:08:38 DocScrutinizer: I'd really just have the local repair shop deal w/ it. My concern is some silly app killed the vibrator. So... the echo ... > ... would still work even though an app killed it for maemo? Sep 13 12:10:13 DocScrutinizer, I think it doesnt make sense: wlancondstart:open("/var/run/wlancond.pid", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0666) = 4 Sep 13 12:10:46 tybollt: yes - echo is quite low level. Sep 13 12:10:55 tybollt: However, in principle, flashing is a good plan Sep 13 12:12:48 hi, when i select usb mode my linux does only see my emc as sdb and not my mmc memory card does not seem to be exported anyone know why? Sep 13 12:15:07 ponyofdeath: i believe this is a linux problem with a certain kernel or distro Sep 13 12:15:28 pupnik: i have a custom compiled kernel Sep 13 12:15:41 pupnik: do i need something special in usbstorage to get it to work Sep 13 12:16:16 i can't think of additional search terms Sep 13 12:16:50 DocScrutinizer: might remember Sep 13 12:18:41 tybollt: yes Sep 13 12:19:27 DocScrutinizer: do u know what is needed from the usbstorage kernel settings to get both storage devices to show up in linux? Sep 13 12:19:38 ShadSEC: there might be a different handle number this time. Check what's your 'dbus call' using Sep 13 12:20:55 ponyofdeath: I guess it's usually related to gentoo distro Sep 13 12:21:07 DocScrutinizer: yeah running gentoo Sep 13 12:21:28 DocScrutinizer: u think its the udev rules of gentoo Sep 13 12:21:38 ponyofdeath: anyway you may want to check if N900 has unmounted the µSD VFAT, which indicates it is exposed Sep 13 12:21:45 exported rather Sep 13 12:22:12 ponyofdeath: yes, that's what I actually think. But no experience with gentoo here Sep 13 12:24:40 gentoo users are great practitioners of open-source - they share their problems everywhere ;) Sep 13 12:27:46 pupnik: s/problems/rice/ ;) Sep 13 12:30:12 i have found a lot of solutions on gentoo lists though, so big-happy-family... Sep 13 12:30:45 DocScrutinizer, is may be this? : socket(PF_FILE, SOCK_DGRAM, 0) = 4 Sep 13 12:31:00 yesyes Sep 13 12:31:11 its using udp? Sep 13 12:31:18 toldya it might be socket Sep 13 12:31:19 or what is that? Sep 13 12:31:27 yep you were right :) Sep 13 12:31:38 looks like UDP socket Sep 13 12:32:17 mmm, there was a tool to check who an udp socket belongs to Sep 13 12:32:35 netstat? lsof? Sep 13 12:32:49 lsof or some of its companion tools Sep 13 12:33:02 wireshark Sep 13 12:33:10 nah Sep 13 12:33:29 wireshark is for NIC only Sep 13 12:35:24 there it is: Sep 13 12:35:27 wlancond 27858 root 3u unix 0xcd8be8c0 135574 socket Sep 13 12:35:27 wlancond 27858 root 4u unix 0xcd8be540 135581 socket Sep 13 12:35:27 wlancond 27858 root 5u sock 0,4 135584 can't identify protocol Sep 13 12:35:27 wlancond 27858 root 6u sock 0,4 135607 can't identify protocol Sep 13 12:35:35 mmmm Sep 13 12:35:36 ShadSEC: please use a pastebin service Sep 13 12:35:42 sorry Sep 13 12:40:28 Anssi's resigning? Sep 13 12:40:30 Woo! Sep 13 12:40:40 anssi? Sep 13 12:40:48 GAN900: why is that a good thing? Sep 13 12:40:50 care to URI us? Sep 13 12:41:10 tybollt: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/13/nokias-anssi-vanjoki-resigns/ Sep 13 12:41:17 frals: 'Woo!' does not imply 'good' Sep 13 12:41:29 it implies sheer astonishment/surprise Sep 13 12:42:31 frade, because he's the guy that made me wait through 50 minutes of "Don't pirate music!" at 5 AM during the Nokia World keynote last year? Sep 13 12:42:45 * Khertan hate when people said ... USE QT4.7 it s fixed .... YEAH BUT 4.6 ONLY FOR N900 ! Sep 13 12:42:46 grrr Sep 13 12:42:49 I'd peg him as one of the people holding Maemo back. Sep 13 12:43:13 ok Sep 13 12:43:36 GAN900: Mind elaborating on 'holding back'? Sep 13 12:44:37 Khertan: Well, there is 4.7-experimental in extras-devel. Sep 13 12:44:49 X-Fade, yep but i can't depends on it Sep 13 12:44:57 why? Sep 13 12:45:06 GAN900, me? Sep 13 12:45:07 Khertan: No, not if you want to push it. Sep 13 12:45:09 due to conflict Sep 13 12:45:22 Khertan: 4.6 || 4.7? Sep 13 12:45:29 4.7 Sep 13 12:45:51 no I mean, do you have to pick the one of them - or you'll get conflict... Sep 13 12:45:54 you can't install both 4.6 and 4.7 Sep 13 12:45:59 oui Sep 13 12:46:18 yep and about all the qt apps on maemo depends on 4.6 Sep 13 12:46:51 so if i depends on python-qt4-experimentals ... i let the user choice between Khweeteur or all other qt apps :) Sep 13 12:47:11 Khertan: No, that is not true. Sep 13 12:47:27 Khertan: You can have both on your system. Sep 13 12:47:50 X-Fade, hu? Sep 13 12:48:14 CAN HAZ! Sep 13 12:48:22 -experimental can be installed next to existing qt. Sep 13 12:48:27 CHEEZBURGER! Sep 13 12:48:55 damn you Sep 13 12:51:03 X-Fade, thx ... i ll try but last i remember of conflict ... maybe this conflict come from pyqt Sep 13 12:51:21 hmm, isnt 4.7 backwards compatible with 4.6 anyway? Sep 13 12:51:31 It should. Sep 13 12:52:17 frals it should but i know there is a counter example but didn't remember which :) Sep 13 12:52:32 frals you would have thought so Sep 13 12:52:56 unless 4.7 actually recreates all the classes with similar but different variations Sep 13 12:52:59 hum ... and patching the current qt 4.6 could be a good idea no ? Sep 13 12:53:06 lcuk: yeah.. unfortunately ive actually been wrong at some point before Sep 13 12:53:20 http://qt.gitorious.org/~tmikola/qt/tmikolas-x11-maemo/commit/d20d11daa158a3b1a364c6e047be28b1c1c22edf <- patch here Sep 13 12:53:41 frals any of us can be wrong about anything Sep 13 12:53:58 All Qt apps I have from Extras run fine on my Qt4.7 snapshot. Sep 13 12:54:12 DocScrutinizer: it was the CONFIG_SCSI_MULTI_LUN is not set in the kernel Sep 13 12:54:42 X-Fade, and pushing an app depending on experimental package to extras isn't a problem ? Sep 13 12:54:47 ponyofdeath: you should post hat to some appropriate wiki Sep 13 12:54:54 Khertan: You can't push it. Sep 13 12:55:01 Khertan: It is blocked. Sep 13 12:55:13 wiki.maemo.org or wiki.gentoo.foo or both Sep 13 12:55:53 morning Sep 13 12:56:13 X-Fade, oh god ... so i push before the bugged version to extras with a warning in the app saying install extras-devel repository and use it to install the debugged version of qt ? Sep 13 12:56:20 :) Sep 13 12:57:20 Khertan: qt4-experimental is in extras-devel for developers to prepare their app for a Qt4.7 release. Sep 13 12:57:29 X-Fade, so what ? we are block here ... promote a bugged version in extras ... or use the experimental version of qt Sep 13 12:57:53 X-Fade, yep i know ... backport of some important bug will be welcome Sep 13 12:58:17 Khertan: Well, you have to wait until Qt gets updated by the mothership. Sep 13 12:58:27 yeah Sep 13 12:58:36 wait the first meego device :) Sep 13 12:58:57 i mean ... we even don't know if there will be qt 4.7 on fremantle Sep 13 12:59:11 so i need a work arround for 4.6 Sep 13 12:59:30 Just overload the class which is broken and fix it? Sep 13 13:01:12 X-Fade, yeah ... but a lot of works ! Sep 13 13:01:38 Not if you know which commit fixed your issue. Sep 13 13:02:54 X-Fade, yeah but i must translate this in python :) Sep 13 13:03:06 and fix every things that depends on it Sep 13 13:03:21 X-Fade, for information the fix is here :http://qt.gitorious.org/~tmikola/qt/tmikolas-x11-maemo/commit/d20d11daa158a3b1a364c6e047be28b1c1c22edf Sep 13 13:03:41 frals, no, Anssi. Sep 13 13:03:50 anyway i ll try to translate this in python. Using experimental isn't a solution. Thx Sep 13 13:03:52 tybollt, he's an old school Symbianite. Sep 13 13:04:12 has anyone ever cold flashed their device? Sep 13 13:04:16 tybollt, part of the generation of dinosaurs who are holding back progress everywhere. Sep 13 13:10:20 anybody? i bricked my n810 Sep 13 13:10:23 javispedro: EHLO Sep 13 13:10:28 hia Sep 13 13:11:17 frenchy: jacekowski and/or Stskeeps might know some details Sep 13 13:11:25 Khertan: so you've confirmed the bug on 4.6? Sep 13 13:11:44 crashanddie, yep :) Sep 13 13:12:26 DocScrutinizer, how would i get in touch with them Sep 13 13:12:32 frenchy: you killed the bootloader? Sep 13 13:12:43 javispedro, it looks that way Sep 13 13:12:49 crashanddie, http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-10906 Sep 13 13:12:49 huh? how? Sep 13 13:13:14 javispedro, device doesnt power on at all. i was trying to install mamona Sep 13 13:13:18 crashanddie, and i can't implement the turn arround in pyqt Sep 13 13:13:25 work around Sep 13 13:13:50 trapping all move events like that will slow down too much the scrolling Sep 13 13:13:57 yep work around Sep 13 13:13:58 :) Sep 13 13:15:57 javispedro, do you jhave any idea how i could fix this? Sep 13 13:16:16 frenchy: if you hosed the bootloader you mostly can't afaik. Sep 13 13:16:32 fortunately, breaking the bootloader should be "hard enough" you probably haven't. Sep 13 13:17:13 javispedro, well it wont power on now, no nokia screen, no led lighting up, nothing Sep 13 13:21:01 I seem to remember jacekowski doing some tests with flashing new NOLO? Sep 13 13:21:21 DocScrutinizer, you may want to remove that intel bit from the topic btw Sep 13 13:21:55 even update NOLO to enable some hw-encryption via security framework? Sep 13 13:22:11 crashanddie_: any time. Why don't you do yourself? Sep 13 13:22:43 admittedly the PUN is getting a bit old Sep 13 13:23:07 err why is pun in capitals? o.O Sep 13 13:23:33 pun detector Sep 13 13:23:38 failure. Sep 13 13:24:33 DocScrutinizer: what did you change in topic? Sep 13 13:25:02 I removed some Intel quote Sep 13 13:25:09 ah, the powervr. Sep 13 13:25:12 when will they learn. Sep 13 13:25:51 "The Intel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver (EMGD) was designed so that Intel graphics chipset customers would not need access to the source code." Sep 13 13:26:28 Heh Sep 13 13:28:17 2g internet fails badly for vnc usage. a drip drip sync tool would be useful. this net is good practice for busy conference wifi ;) Sep 13 13:29:30 hiya lcuk Sep 13 13:30:04 hi javis. Sep 13 13:30:19 * lcukn900 twiddles thumbs waiting for a single page to load Sep 13 13:31:06 albanc i see your mail but cant click it yet! thanks Sep 13 13:31:34 lcuk, do you want me to do something, or? Sep 13 13:31:41 lcukn900, ^ Sep 13 13:31:45 no its just lagnet Sep 13 13:32:03 this irc is working but the connect to laptop is baddddd Sep 13 13:32:17 vnc over the internet is awful Sep 13 13:32:34 this part isnt vnc actually Sep 13 13:32:45 office irc is, but that bits done now Sep 13 13:33:03 this is mail and web Sep 13 13:33:36 javis from wifi its ok Sep 13 13:33:47 did you get the mail i sent to tmo? Sep 13 13:33:51 yep Sep 13 13:34:28 good will talk to you about hildon later once i get bck to civilisation Sep 13 13:35:03 and manchester central library closed until 2013 Sep 13 13:35:10 ta, I will leave in a few hours though (to be back late night) Sep 13 13:35:14 and thats not a time, thats the year Sep 13 13:35:32 hmm, is there way to clean up messaging? seems like, the more IM talks/chats recorded on device, the slower messaging is Sep 13 13:37:07 rmrfchik: there's a "delete conversations" menu item in conversations Sep 13 13:47:00 * lcukn900 browses the business section of the replacement library Sep 13 13:54:17 whoop Sep 13 13:54:58 hah, N900 was faster at incoming call notification than my E75 just now Sep 13 13:57:26 Myrtti: \o/ Sep 13 13:58:28 ShadowJK, that must be some sort of miracle. Sep 13 13:58:55 Are there any wandering black holes near your person? Sep 13 13:58:59 N900 vibrated twice before E75 started playing the sound Sep 13 13:59:06 (I had N900 on Silent:Vibrate) Sep 13 13:59:23 vib is faster than playsound Sep 13 13:59:38 no gstreamer and PA foo Sep 13 13:59:47 and calls show in the screen faster if your not playing games Sep 13 14:00:00 it launches a gst pipeline for incoming calls? pfft Sep 13 14:00:14 javispedro: I'd guess so Sep 13 14:00:40 canberra has server-side sound sample caching so one would hope it didn't. Sep 13 14:00:45 http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2985/babaracusmrttmobilefp1qf5.jpg - alternative T-mobile logo Sep 13 14:01:01 eeew libcanberra Sep 13 14:01:34 heard lots of swearword shouting regarding libcanberra on OM Sep 13 14:02:00 canberra would be nice if limited itself to the "load sound sample" / "play sound sample as fast as possible" api Sep 13 14:02:40 actually it seems to reinvent reinvention of reinvention of the audio wheel Sep 13 14:03:12 it's just yet another libao Sep 13 14:03:25 aplay was waaay faster for our purposes :-P Sep 13 14:03:42 "ideally" CA doesn't even fork a process Sep 13 14:04:04 but I think it doesn't do sample caching at all with ALSA Sep 13 14:04:31 yeah why load progam text if we can keep it RAM resident - we got plenty of that darn ram Sep 13 14:05:38 and swapping out some crap to swap in other crap is supposed to be muuuch faster than loading a lean ELF, isn't it? :-D Sep 13 14:06:15 well, it is on windows >:) Sep 13 14:19:17 Sometimes you wonder how people managed to create a story based on some random things they find somewhere: http://www.youmobile.org/blogs/entry/Nokia-N900-Gets-MeeGo1-1-on-21-27-October Sep 13 14:19:20 hah, on this telemarketer my E75 rang 1 second before N900 Sep 13 14:20:26 X-Fade, hey, they're bloggers. That's their job. Sep 13 14:20:59 * javispedro has done something like that recently Sep 13 14:21:47 Howdy, javispedro, by the way. Sep 13 14:22:36 hello Sep 13 14:22:49 got some month-long irc lag :) Sep 13 14:27:57 hey guys i'm registering at gittorious, confirmation links asks for SSH key, what I have to do with it? Sep 13 14:28:52 if you plan to ever commit to gitorious, generate it. Sep 13 14:29:18 i might, so how? Sep 13 14:29:48 http://gitorious.org/about/faq and a also google about ssh public key authentication Sep 13 14:30:16 thanks Sep 13 14:34:13 I should learn git at somepoint Sep 13 14:34:32 oh tomorrow is the nokiaworld Sep 13 14:34:42 indeedly Sep 13 14:34:42 alterego, there is a pretty good community book Sep 13 14:35:07 http://book.git-scm.com/ Sep 13 14:35:32 I might buy the pragmatic programmers one, I like those. Sep 13 14:35:51 i like faq @github Sep 13 14:38:09 hum ... Other qt4.6 bugs founds Sep 13 14:38:45 i think i ll not implement work arround for every one ... but force qt4.7 and said to user to use extras-devel :) Sep 13 14:43:50 I have added a source in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon.... , The app manager does not see this change, is there anything i have to do ? Sep 13 14:43:51 Wonder if we'll get any good announcements. Sep 13 14:43:56 Is there a way to quickly switch wifi power saving mode? Sep 13 14:44:29 Scruffy_, HAM does not use those sources as the source of information, simplest way for HAM repositories is to add them using the UI Sep 13 14:44:41 So how do git clone project? Sep 13 14:44:56 GANwell, according to the usual tmo slime win mo 7 for high end devices!P WOO! pahaha Sep 13 14:45:14 wahahaha hahaha haha ha ... hm.... Sep 13 14:45:15 hmmm. what sources does HAM or FAPMAN use then ? Sep 13 14:45:45 Dassu: Simple oprtion is to have two identical internet connections wiht differnet PSM settings Sep 13 14:45:53 * javispedro wouldn't be surprised Sep 13 14:46:23 Hopefully it'll be more than Anssi admonishing all us pirates. Sep 13 14:46:52 so it's git pull Sep 13 14:47:57 oh, he resigned. Sep 13 14:48:19 autotools are still alive lol Sep 13 14:52:00 yeah i was true ... python2.5-qt4-experimental-gui conflict with python2.5-qt4-gui which all apps depends Sep 13 14:52:04 so i cannot use it Sep 13 14:52:16 hah! Sep 13 14:52:36 such things really borring me ... Sep 13 14:52:37 either way, some bad people rumour 4.7 is near Sep 13 14:52:47 ok ... i think i ll drop maemo support Sep 13 14:53:25 javispedro, huM ... as near as meego is ready for end user ? Sep 13 14:53:30 :) Sep 13 14:53:48 http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/x11-maemo Sep 13 14:54:03 meego isn't near ready for end users .. Sep 13 14:54:08 where do i get meego touch? Sep 13 14:54:35 http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch :P Sep 13 14:54:38 It's getting there, but I wouldn't say near, there are still a lot of bugs Sep 13 14:54:54 javispedro, interesting ... but this mean at list in 1 month min ... as firmware test required :) Sep 13 14:55:03 javispedro, thanks, Sep 13 14:55:15 which file does the app manager get its sources from ? Sep 13 14:55:55 Scruffy_: /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues, but app manager has a UI for editing that Sep 13 14:56:23 do you know if the FAPMAN uses this as well ? Sep 13 14:56:28 nope Sep 13 14:56:55 no, you don't know, or no it doesn'T ? Sep 13 14:56:59 don't know. Sep 13 14:57:08 possibly it will use catalogues listed in sources.list Sep 13 14:57:08 oh, Anssi resigned as well Sep 13 14:57:13 good news, good news Sep 13 14:57:20 my source.list is empty Sep 13 14:57:26 sources.list.d Sep 13 14:57:55 that has a file call hildon..., but any changes i make there are not seen Sep 13 14:58:02 seen where? Sep 13 14:58:13 in ham or fapman Sep 13 14:58:40 Scruffy_, that is generated out of HAM based on the repository configuration that javis just told you Sep 13 14:58:41 you need not edit that file, because ham will overwrite it with stuff generated from /etc/h-a-m/catalogues Sep 13 14:59:03 fapman may simply be using the existing configurations Sep 13 14:59:14 ahhh, ok that explains things a bit Sep 13 14:59:31 but if you create an extra file in sources.list.d at least apt-get will use it (and I believe h-a-m will list packages coming from that repo but not list the repo itself in "catalogues" dialog) Sep 13 15:00:15 i assume adding catalogs to sources.list will be read by ham ? Sep 13 15:00:37 and hopefully fapman Sep 13 15:00:42 what do you exactly want to do? Sep 13 15:00:46 why not use the GUI? Sep 13 15:01:28 i used the gui to add a catalog in fapman, apparently it didn't work as the package i was expecting wasn't there Sep 13 15:01:44 * javispedro smells something Sep 13 15:01:47 which catalog is that one?d Sep 13 15:02:03 does it have user/* packages? Sep 13 15:02:31 tried to add the extras-testing Sep 13 15:02:46 wanted to install wget Sep 13 15:02:47 javispedro, how do i clone the whole meegotouch repo? Sep 13 15:02:55 sorry, pull Sep 13 15:02:57 aretrfre34: you can't, clone individual components. Sep 13 15:03:20 libmeegotouch, meegotouch-theme are requisites Sep 13 15:03:28 so one by one? Sep 13 15:03:31 yes Sep 13 15:03:36 *required Sep 13 15:04:09 you might want to ask #meego, btw. Sep 13 15:04:29 Scruffy_: wget will never appear in H-A-M nor fapman, as it's not a user/ package afai Sep 13 15:04:30 k Sep 13 15:04:35 Scruffy_: use wget Sep 13 15:04:38 er.. Sep 13 15:04:40 use apt-get Sep 13 15:05:03 javispedro, thank you Sep 13 15:05:54 Wow, I've still got my full MSDN license. Sep 13 15:05:55 apt-get works to install wget Sep 13 15:06:46 thanks for the info Sep 13 15:08:25 javispedro: muhaha :-D Sep 13 15:09:04 Q: how to unstall rootsh? A: sudo apt-get rootsh Sep 13 15:09:12 install* Sep 13 15:09:27 do we have a FAQ for that sort of stuff now? :D Sep 13 15:09:48 the Daily-WTF FAQ Sep 13 15:09:54 * javispedro realizes the left recursion and shudders. Sep 13 15:10:35 Scruffy_: use wget Sep 13 15:11:24 well, to solve your problem DocStrutinizer, you can make use of the fact that the following line is on sudoers: %users ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/libexec/apt-worker Sep 13 15:11:49 ooh, actually. Yes :-D Sep 13 15:11:57 ;P Sep 13 15:12:33 so yes, you can theoretically use sudo to fetch a non-borked sudo-like program :P Sep 13 15:13:38 or use a nice gui for that, called HAM :-P Sep 13 15:21:46 X-Fade, Ping? Sep 13 15:22:01 X-Fade, Is it you who has control over the Mailman installation for maemo.org? Sep 13 15:27:45 javispedro: fix gainroot -> see bottom of http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Sep 13 15:28:49 javispedro: don't forget to create a password for root prior to that :-D Sep 13 15:29:08 WFM Sep 13 15:29:12 I'm already too used to rootsh :) Sep 13 15:29:34 in fact I made the rootsh->sudo alias on my deskto Sep 13 15:29:36 p Sep 13 15:29:43 it will work, just ask for password Sep 13 15:30:21 root password Sep 13 15:34:52 i tried installing mamona on my n810 and now its bricked, it wont power on or charge or anything, is my device completely hosed? Sep 13 15:35:42 frenchy, have you tried flashing? Sep 13 15:35:51 Are you sure your battery isn't just dead? Sep 13 15:37:19 GAN900, i cant flash it wont come on for me to put it in USB mode or whatever, the battery was almost full when this happened, even so plugging in the charger does absolutely nothing, not even an LED lightup Sep 13 15:37:42 charger is OK? Sep 13 15:38:00 yeah the charger worked before Sep 13 15:38:37 if you got any means (paperclip and tongue) check voltage of batery Sep 13 15:38:38 If it's the original battery, and has aged approximately same rate as my N8x0 batteries, 3/4 bars is more like "almost empty" :/ Sep 13 15:39:52 ShadowJK, Before this the battery applet was close to correct, i could get a good 4 hours out of a charge depending on what i was doing, maybe more Sep 13 15:40:15 check battery voltage Sep 13 15:40:22 frenchy, I can't imagine how the bootloader would've been trashed, but you can build yourself a serial jig to cold flash. Sep 13 15:40:56 have you had the battery removed for a few minutes? Sep 13 15:40:58 GAN900, thats what im afraid of that i will have to do, but i have no clue how to do that and cant find much info about it on the net Sep 13 15:41:06 ShadowJK, i removed the battery overnight Sep 13 15:41:35 i ordered a new battery for it just to have 2 so when it comes i will try that one but i dont have much hope for that Sep 13 15:41:52 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Sep 13 15:42:04 sudden death of battery not unusual Sep 13 15:42:43 ive tried the -c switch on the flasher using the -S usb as well and removing the battery and replacing it when it is looking for the device but no luck Sep 13 15:43:00 check battery voltage Sep 13 15:43:21 DocScrutinizer, i dont have anything to check voltage with Sep 13 15:43:32 mouth Sep 13 15:43:43 DMM is $5 Sep 13 15:44:03 2 wires and a raw potatoe? Sep 13 15:44:29 s/raw patatoe/ glas of water, with a few grains of salt Sep 13 15:45:01 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DIGITAL-MULTIMETER-MULTI-METER-VOLTAGE-TESTER-DMM-DVM-/310235086195?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item483b73bd73 Sep 13 15:45:15 $5 from where Sep 13 15:45:52 incandescent bulb from a 3V..6V torch? Sep 13 15:46:19 if i plug the charger into the device with no battery on a known working model is it supposed to do anything? Sep 13 15:46:23 does mamona actually replace nolo? Sep 13 15:46:48 no, it absolutely does not work with no battery. Sep 13 15:47:05 and even less with a shorted defective battery Sep 13 15:47:32 ok so lets say the battery is completely fried and i plug it in it should still show nothing correct? Sep 13 15:47:57 yeah Sep 13 15:48:10 I'd love a quad 2.5GHz Cortex A15 server. Sep 13 15:48:40 cortex A15 o.O Sep 13 15:48:54 there's that scenario with almost-dead battery where it just does reboot loop too Sep 13 15:49:04 back to the future Sep 13 15:49:08 i will just wait until the new battery comes i guess and if that doesnt work is there anything i can do besides throw it away? Sep 13 15:49:09 GAN900: me too. Sep 13 15:49:11 GAN900, wait until 2014, start lusting for A30 in 2019 Sep 13 15:49:11 GAN900: in your pocket? :) Sep 13 15:49:23 DocScrutinizer, it's no fun if you just keep upping the numbers in a reasonable fashion. Sep 13 15:49:40 ShadowJK, I remember when the A8 was going to change my life. Sep 13 15:49:49 alterego, no, in my closet. Sep 13 15:50:00 frenchy: yep, reflash NOLO then Sep 13 15:50:09 Currently using a dual 1.8GHz PowerMac G5. Sep 13 15:50:11 GAN900: did it? I think it probably did for most of us actually. Sep 13 15:50:18 frenchy: that's no walk in the park though Sep 13 15:50:18 Talk about power hungry. Sep 13 15:50:21 Maemo 5 changed my life .. Sep 13 15:50:28 alterego, not as much as I'd dreamed. Sep 13 15:50:47 Indeed. Sep 13 15:51:51 Cortex A9 brings back Jazelle direct byte code execution! Sep 13 15:51:56 ;P Sep 13 15:52:10 Well webmasters and similar are constantly working hard to ensure that websites remain sluggish and slow even on quad core computers ;-) Sep 13 15:52:32 GAN900: for closett you'd need a IP65 version Sep 13 15:53:19 javispedro: yay, unused logic! Sep 13 15:53:58 jacekowski: ping Sep 13 15:55:27 GAN900: (build yourself a serial jig to cold flash) any pointers? Sep 13 15:55:49 microlith: at least this time they fully documented it Sep 13 15:55:53 DocScrutinizer, there's a diagram somewhere. Sep 13 15:56:22 ummm Sep 13 15:57:03 DocScrutinizer, how do i reflash NOLO, or could you send me a link to some instructions Sep 13 15:57:13 Some guy put the serial pinout on his website Sep 13 15:57:21 Just build yourself an adaptor. Sep 13 15:57:24 And flash away. Sep 13 15:57:41 did anyone manage to flash that way? I though it was an urban legend :p Sep 13 15:57:50 though the --cold-flash option is there. Sep 13 15:58:48 google/search?q="some_guy_flash_N810_jig" :-P Sep 13 15:59:23 DocScrutinizer, used to be one of the top results. Sep 13 15:59:32 Think there's something on the wiki, too. Sep 13 16:00:17 ah, found it Sep 13 16:00:18 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=15712&page=2 Sep 13 16:01:18 wiki link is dead :P Sep 13 16:02:45 * microlith slogs through a fedora 13 install on his macbook Sep 13 16:08:19 * crashanddie idly waits for feedback from colleagues... Sep 13 16:08:36 "Frustrated Slashdot reader switches homepage to FOX" Sep 13 16:08:51 hehe Sep 13 16:09:01 javispedro: the onion? Sep 13 16:09:03 javispedro, Is that an Onion headline, or Slashdot? Sep 13 16:09:08 slashdot comment :) Sep 13 16:09:16 Today's dilbert is funny: http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-09-13/ Sep 13 16:09:28 anyone who has slashdot as homepage needs to be shot Sep 13 16:09:36 I mean, that's a slow webpage to load. Sep 13 16:10:35 ok i found an old multimeter in my basement and tested the battery and it is NOT dead Sep 13 16:12:07 Anyone who has anything other than about:blank as their homepage needs to be shot. Sep 13 16:27:31 GAN900 : Anyone who has anything other than about:blank as their homepage needs to be shot <<< hum ... no ... i use my own html shortcut page ... Sep 13 16:28:06 Khertan, that's not so bad, but having a real homepage these days is silly. Sep 13 16:28:07 anyone who use about:blank should be shout ... as there use everytime url completion which made many request on the network Sep 13 16:28:24 * GAN900 just uses text shortcuts for frequently visited pages. Sep 13 16:29:07 my html consist of a python script called which is a converted tomboy note :) Sep 13 16:31:11 Hi Maemo guys Sep 13 16:31:44 Hi n900 guy Sep 13 16:31:54 :) Sep 13 16:32:58 Hey Khertan! :) Sep 13 16:34:09 What's up? Sep 13 16:34:51 nothing more than yesterday and the day before Sep 13 16:34:56 frenchy: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=134423#post134423 Sep 13 16:35:07 GAN900: ^^^ :-D Sep 13 16:35:28 GAN900: or particularly your posts there, a few up Sep 13 16:35:51 Lol Sep 13 16:35:59 DocScrutinizer, i found this as well, i may just give up :( Sep 13 16:36:19 frenchy: what's your issue? Sep 13 16:36:59 VenemoN900, I bricked my n180, it doesnt boot or power on or charge or anythign Sep 13 16:37:49 frenchy: reflash would be my suggestion, but I would think you already tried that Sep 13 16:37:50 DocScrutinizer: pong Sep 13 16:38:13 VenemoN900, i cant, it wont go into USB mode to let me do anything, it just seems to be dead Sep 13 16:38:28 frenchy: :( Sep 13 16:38:37 VenemoN900, tell me about it Sep 13 16:38:40 DocScrutinizer, I can only imagine. Sep 13 16:38:43 jacekowski: see above, any suggestions Sep 13 16:39:14 jacekowski: did you reflash NOLO? Sep 13 16:41:18 yep Sep 13 16:41:21 what ha[[ened Sep 13 16:41:24 happened* Sep 13 16:41:39 nolo is gone? Sep 13 16:41:41 hmm Sep 13 16:42:06 possibly frenchy killed his N810 NOLO Sep 13 16:42:13 hmm Sep 13 16:42:22 n810 Sep 13 16:42:29 i think its safe to say DEFINITELY at this point Sep 13 16:42:38 i'm not sure about n810 Sep 13 16:42:47 linux or windows? Sep 13 16:42:57 i had problem doing coldflash on windows Sep 13 16:43:11 becayse boot rom was gone before windows managed to install drivers and stuff Sep 13 16:43:15 so i had to do it on linux Sep 13 16:44:05 jacekowski: so you say NOLO reflash via USB is feasible? Sep 13 16:44:16 on n900 Sep 13 16:44:21 ive tried both, although my windows is 64bit 7 i hear about problems with it im going to try my girlfriends XP laptop when shes not on it Sep 13 16:44:26 :nod: Sep 13 16:44:33 try linux livecd Sep 13 16:44:50 and check if phone boot rom is connecting via usb Sep 13 16:44:58 well, you can hear that on windows Sep 13 16:45:11 do you have ussual sound of connecting something when you connect dead phone? Sep 13 16:45:18 jacekowski, im on linux right now, but it is also 64 bit, should i try using a 32 but environment? Sep 13 16:45:26 not important Sep 13 16:45:31 disconnect phone Sep 13 16:45:37 switch it off Sep 13 16:45:40 remove battery and stuff Sep 13 16:45:45 install battery Sep 13 16:45:49 wait couple seconds Sep 13 16:45:51 connect usb cable Sep 13 16:46:01 and check if there is anything new in dmesg Sep 13 16:46:17 if yes, then you can probably coldflash it if it's similiar to n900 Sep 13 16:46:28 which i would expect to be in that matter Sep 13 16:46:34 as it's omap as well irc Sep 13 16:46:36 iirc* Sep 13 16:47:02 cheers jacekowski :D Sep 13 16:47:14 yo da man Sep 13 16:47:27 who's the man? Sep 13 16:47:31 everyone together Sep 13 16:47:43 i'll never say that again Sep 13 16:48:01 nothing new in dmesg Sep 13 16:48:15 hmm Sep 13 16:49:09 that would only leave serial or jtag Sep 13 16:49:15 still jury's out on frenchy 's battery Sep 13 16:49:35 but i don't have n810 to test it Sep 13 16:49:45 i tested the battery with a multimeter and it seems fine Sep 13 16:50:15 ooh Sep 13 16:50:21 missed that Sep 13 16:50:44 jacekowski, when coldflashing using flasher, the hardware id, does it have to be exactly right? i have no idea what mine is Sep 13 16:50:55 and cant seem to find it Sep 13 16:51:16 it should appear in dmesg Sep 13 16:51:27 when boot rom starts Sep 13 16:52:20 frenchy: considered taking device to Nokia care center? Sep 13 16:53:15 DocScrutinizer, i have no knowledge of one near me, would they even be able to help on such an old device? Sep 13 16:53:37 they shoud, yes Sep 13 16:53:53 how much would it cost for them to cold flash it Sep 13 16:54:15 jacekowski, is that the only way to find it, i cant get it to boot! Sep 13 16:57:14 frenchy: not a lot Sep 13 16:57:21 frenchy: i mean, it's a minute for them Sep 13 16:57:54 any idea how i can find locations for these places? Sep 13 16:58:08 on nokia website Sep 13 16:58:10 there was thingy Sep 13 16:58:22 i always had problem finding it Sep 13 16:58:25 but it's there Sep 13 16:59:22 i found a link in a forum somewhere but its dead Sep 13 17:00:21 yeahi ts gone Sep 13 17:22:19 fuck I hate this bullshit Sep 13 17:22:57 Me too. Sep 13 17:23:00 What bullshit? Sep 13 17:28:10 maemo processing so much in the background that it becomes unresponsive for an extended duration, even to the point that things like xchat get disconnected Sep 13 17:29:00 cpu is still pegged Sep 13 17:29:55 Swapping Sep 13 17:30:06 Yeah, it turns me into the Hulk. Sep 13 17:30:22 "You wouldn't like me when my N900 is swapping." Sep 13 17:30:46 only thing keeping me quiet is being in a meeting Sep 13 17:31:36 :/ Sep 13 17:31:51 top Sep 13 17:31:52 killall browserd Sep 13 17:31:57 did Sep 13 17:31:58 I'd bet on tracker or thumbnailer Sep 13 17:32:04 usually helps a lot Sep 13 17:32:11 DocScrutinizer called it Sep 13 17:32:14 yeah that too Sep 13 17:33:39 * ml-mobile falls back to lynx Sep 13 17:51:56 thats wierd, making m3u files linked to microsd works ,but why cant i find a way to make them on massmemory Sep 13 17:52:06 Hi all, is there any chance that rough builds of maemo 6 (with it's compat layer with meego-core-1.1) will be out for testing one day soon? Sep 13 17:52:20 no maemo 6 proably Sep 13 17:52:41 i just look at meego project forlornly and wish the same sort of thing could be happening for maemo :( :) Sep 13 17:53:05 meego wil the next maemo os Sep 13 17:53:17 well a name change as far as i understanded Sep 13 17:53:56 yeah i know, cept unlike meego core maemo 6 isnt available for public testing :( Sep 13 17:54:08 jedlhl: maemo 6 isn't for use anywhere else than nokia products Sep 13 17:54:14 meego is and also the future base Sep 13 17:54:17 well its intel we're talking about Sep 13 17:55:30 i kind thought that the n900 images are already public ? or atleast the software to making those images are.. Sep 13 17:56:00 jani: yes, but not harmattan which was what he asked for :P Sep 13 17:56:10 @stskeeps; yeah i realise that, but i dont see why (exactly) that means that build cant be made publicly available Sep 13 17:56:38 Stskeeps: really? so, the n900 images are just fremantle stuff with with meegotouch thrown on top of it ? Sep 13 17:56:53 jani: no no .. Sep 13 17:56:55 meego is under development Sep 13 17:57:00 :) Sep 13 17:57:10 not ready to everyday use Sep 13 17:57:34 jedlhl: same reason apple doesn't give out alphas of iphone os Sep 13 17:57:44 lol Sep 13 17:58:11 yeah but that obviouly wont apply once nokia mgirates to meego core will it Sep 13 17:58:54 no iea. Sep 13 17:58:55 idea Sep 13 17:58:55 crap i really gotta go to bed 4am, night all... Sep 13 18:00:03 but Nokia will notice when migrating" to MeeGo, i guss Sep 13 18:01:12 yeah my point was once theve gone to meego-core they're not going to have the same close model so why not just open maemo 6 up. guess thats a poor argument LOL Sep 13 18:01:27 need sleep Sep 13 18:01:52 :) Sep 13 18:02:00 need caffeine:p Sep 13 18:03:50 guys, who do i bug for SIP client feature requests? anyone taking bribes?:D Sep 13 18:04:03 MNZ: how's the DSP coming along? Sep 13 18:05:05 dso eq? Sep 13 18:06:01 FrieT, I've analyzed PA's highpass filter and I replicated it on a filter on the audio codec, initial results tell me I've pretty much nailed it, but now I need actual testing on the speakers:D Sep 13 18:06:14 aha Sep 13 18:06:22 drop me a binary - bart@riffle.be Sep 13 18:06:26 hey again Sep 13 18:06:35 i'll happily brick my n900 for ya :> Sep 13 18:06:52 man n900 is bad if you ask me Sep 13 18:07:00 2x got a broken n900 Sep 13 18:07:06 now i have one with dead pixels Sep 13 18:07:14 you have bad luck Sep 13 18:07:22 yeah... Sep 13 18:07:24 probably karma Sep 13 18:07:26 :P Sep 13 18:07:35 dead pixels is anoyng on black backgrounds Sep 13 18:07:40 Chibi-Taiga: I have only one, and that works flawlessly Sep 13 18:07:47 FrieT, no bricking involved, don't worry :D one thing though, can you compile the patch though, because I can't upload anything beyond 400kb (connection dies) Sep 13 18:07:51 i've handled 3 Sep 13 18:07:56 no problems with all of them Sep 13 18:07:59 i don't have sandbox yet Sep 13 18:08:03 mine even fixes itself when it breaks Sep 13 18:08:04 i downloaded the VM image Sep 13 18:08:08 but i lack the ram to run it for now Sep 13 18:08:17 and euh Sep 13 18:08:29 well i dont even think to rma it again it took me 2-3 months for this one Sep 13 18:08:33 looks like you're in need of MTU clamping & a fixed ISP :p Sep 13 18:08:39 15 workdays befor they send it Sep 13 18:09:23 FrieT, I haven't even tried to debug this :/ no idea where to start Sep 13 18:09:29 im thinking to send it back to the shop and ask for a trade for samsung galaxy s Sep 13 18:09:41 MNZ: someone is filtering ALL icmp Sep 13 18:10:00 Chibi-Taiga, what happened to your previous devices? Sep 13 18:10:08 which is really really bad (tm) Sep 13 18:10:14 and I think you are one of the first I have heard with pixels Sep 13 18:10:25 what happend Sep 13 18:10:33 well maby some of you still remember Sep 13 18:10:40 it kept rebooting Sep 13 18:10:42 MNZ: if you can hold my hand and walk me through the seutp & compile stuff.. i could do that :) Sep 13 18:10:43 * MohammadAG51 has seen some software "dead pixels" Sep 13 18:10:49 rebout ot of nowhere Sep 13 18:10:54 FrieT, but pings are going through actually (or do you mean inbound pings?) Sep 13 18:10:57 reboot* Sep 13 18:11:06 no i'm talking about ICMP Fragmentation needed Sep 13 18:11:11 that 2x with 2 difrent phones Sep 13 18:11:26 now i have one witch works perfectly but it has dead pixels Sep 13 18:11:41 a Sep 13 18:11:47 ups.. Sep 13 18:12:04 there's another solution, if MohammadAG51 is willing to help :D Sep 13 18:12:35 on psp there was an apllication to release frozen pixels Sep 13 18:12:39 MohammadAG51, can you do a quick kernel build and upload zImage for FrieT to use? Sep 13 18:12:44 but i dont think its frozen in this case Sep 13 18:12:49 framebuffer? Sep 13 18:12:52 it's a kernel change?:P Sep 13 18:12:54 neat Sep 13 18:13:06 MohammadAG51, no my audio codec patch Sep 13 18:13:06 -scared already- Sep 13 18:13:25 FrieT, no worries I've been using this patch for over a week and it's stable :P Sep 13 18:13:28 MNZ, build what kernel? Sep 13 18:13:36 this isn't vanilla kernel on arm arch, right? Sep 13 18:13:36 oh Sep 13 18:13:41 MNZ, patch :) Sep 13 18:13:41 MohammadAG51, basically stock kernel patched with my patch Sep 13 18:13:54 it's the kernel.org kernel? Sep 13 18:14:02 or does it include proprietary modules? Sep 13 18:14:06 FrieT, no, maemo's stock kernel Sep 13 18:14:09 mk Sep 13 18:14:16 neah i need to set up sandbox ffs Sep 13 18:14:23 the vanilla kernel won't compile properly Sep 13 18:14:26 MNZ, patch! :P Sep 13 18:14:26 so i can fix little annoyances Sep 13 18:14:29 MohammadAG51, hold on I'll send you the patch Sep 13 18:14:39 it does compile properly Sep 13 18:14:40 MNZ: how about you zip and split it into little 100kb files Sep 13 18:14:40 : Sep 13 18:14:41 d Sep 13 18:14:58 MohammadAG51, yeah, compiles properly Sep 13 18:14:59 lol Sep 13 18:15:10 just split it, i'll cat them together:D Sep 13 18:15:12 FrieT, lol ok, so 3rd option Sep 13 18:15:15 hello everyone... how is everybody. Sep 13 18:15:16 ;D Sep 13 18:15:30 MohammadAG51, another time then :P Sep 13 18:15:35 anyone here can help me with reflashing my nokia n800? Sep 13 18:15:49 MNZ: i guess you could send me the patch itself.. Sep 13 18:15:51 MNZ, as you wish :) Sep 13 18:16:07 though compiling with -j 10 is nice :P Sep 13 18:16:08 then i shall set up the sandbox on my laptop later tonight Sep 13 18:16:13 Chibi-Taiga, you overclocked your machine for 2 months in the past Sep 13 18:16:18 and said you had no problems Sep 13 18:16:18 in scratchbox it won't compile pure vanilla kernel, you can't get through to make menuconfig.. only with the maemo patched kernel (I used titan's power kernel which includes all the necessary nokia patches) Sep 13 18:16:25 now you say 2 machines died without reason Sep 13 18:16:35 i sense theres a reason Sep 13 18:16:48 psycho_oreos, apt-get source kernel Sep 13 18:16:53 then dpkg-buildpackage -b Sep 13 18:17:05 anyone...:-(? Sep 13 18:17:10 yeah i'll get back to you guys on the debian quirks later:PP Sep 13 18:17:14 MohammadAG51, in scratchbox? that I still bet is patched kernel :) Sep 13 18:17:17 <- slackware user - no debian clue to speak of. Sep 13 18:17:24 .:20:12:15:. Chibi-Taiga, you overclocked your machine for 2 months in the past <- no they were like that the 1st time i booted them up Sep 13 18:17:28 Nokia patched = Vanilla to me :P Sep 13 18:17:38 vanilla kernel == kernel.org MohammadAG51 :) Sep 13 18:17:52 FrieT, with no debian it's going to be quite a ride to set up scratchbox afaik Sep 13 18:17:57 MohammadAG51, no that's very different, I agree with FrieT Sep 13 18:18:10 MNZ: i downloaded the virtualpc image :P Sep 13 18:18:18 2.6.28 should compile i guess Sep 13 18:18:19 <- lazy man's approach Sep 13 18:19:03 if you wget from kernel.org 2.6.28 and ran that through scratchbox it'll fail trying to build menuconfig because of missing deps, etc Sep 13 18:19:11 menuconfig? Sep 13 18:19:19 that's just curses missing Sep 13 18:19:43 libncurses Sep 13 18:19:50 brrrr, that's gnu Sep 13 18:19:51 check debian/contro!! Sep 13 18:20:04 probably, it does get into menuconfig after you applied nokia patches I suppose Sep 13 18:20:05 Chibi-Taiga, whatever, but this channel is fully logged and all your previous discussions about overclocking never mentioned you had 2 completely DOA machines - just that you had been over clocking Sep 13 18:20:06 use bsd curses, way nicer Sep 13 18:20:06 :P Sep 13 18:20:10 s/!l/l! Sep 13 18:20:20 and vanilla kernel doesn't have debian/control Sep 13 18:20:28 oh right Sep 13 18:20:38 anyways, libncurses is a build dep Sep 13 18:20:50 not rly.. you can just use your own .config file Sep 13 18:21:23 no they wernt doa Sep 13 18:21:29 they worked but kept rebooting Sep 13 18:21:34 Chibi-Taiga, to help jog your memory: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=chibi-taiga Sep 13 18:21:40 just random reboot Sep 13 18:21:40 every word you ever made in maemo ;) Sep 13 18:21:58 i know lols Sep 13 18:22:03 i log myself to Sep 13 18:22:04 Chibi-Taiga when i try 900mhz, it reboots but its still stock Sep 13 18:22:09 yup Sep 13 18:22:15 yeah Sep 13 18:22:19 that looks like a "random" reboot to me :) Sep 13 18:22:21 well 900mhz no Sep 13 18:22:27 it didnt even go that far Sep 13 18:22:35 825 was max Sep 13 18:22:44 i am stable at 850. Sep 13 18:22:54 unless i disable powersaving shit Sep 13 18:22:57 then iduno Sep 13 18:22:59 but ocing wasnt the point Sep 13 18:23:05 probaly a bug in the ram Sep 13 18:23:06 didn't try to go up as high as possibly Sep 13 18:23:11 possible* Sep 13 18:23:21 yep far more likely indeed Sep 13 18:23:44 the onei have now i tested it for 2 days on 1ghz though Sep 13 18:23:45 did you OC the ram? Sep 13 18:23:49 nope Sep 13 18:23:51 :p Sep 13 18:23:53 like i said Sep 13 18:23:53 just asking! Sep 13 18:23:54 ;D Sep 13 18:24:06 anyhow.. 850mhz works perfectly for me Sep 13 18:24:08 OC'ing causes filesystem corruption Sep 13 18:24:11 although i run it at 550 :) Sep 13 18:24:12 when i got them the 1st thing it did after set time and date is reboot Sep 13 18:24:27 it reboot 2-3x in one row Sep 13 18:24:31 * lcuk gets out the worlds smallest violin Sep 13 18:24:37 can confirm that, it's not a BS statement, saw it on a friend's device Sep 13 18:24:57 well that's a bad / unstable overclock then Sep 13 18:25:02 the 3rd one is perfectly fine just 2 dead pixels Sep 13 18:25:09 i said stock Sep 13 18:25:19 no oc when i got them Sep 13 18:25:30 they said it could be my sim card Sep 13 18:25:36 so i tested them with out it Sep 13 18:25:41 and it still happends Sep 13 18:25:48 befor i did anything to them Sep 13 18:26:03 the nokia care saw it with own eyes Sep 13 18:26:45 used device? Sep 13 18:26:58 idk Sep 13 18:27:12 1st one was new out the box Sep 13 18:27:21 2nd one probaly was a fixed device Sep 13 18:27:29 cuz it came from nokia Sep 13 18:27:35 MNZ: mailed the patchy? Sep 13 18:28:06 FrieT, hold on putting in some testing code and trying it out Sep 13 18:28:11 :) Sep 13 18:28:17 * MohammadAG51 remembers when he was wondering if he should get an N900 Sep 13 18:28:31 i have no prob recompiling kernels every day MNZ:p Sep 13 18:28:32 Read tmo back then, dead mic, reboots, dead pixels Sep 13 18:28:40 MohammadAG51, you actually had to "wonder" Sep 13 18:28:44 then i was like, meh, i could use an external mic Sep 13 18:28:55 reboots will probably be fixed Sep 13 18:28:59 so does anyone wanna buy my bricked n810 for parts? Sep 13 18:28:59 well i actually was looking for .. euh Sep 13 18:29:04 so I just bought one Sep 13 18:29:05 a replacement for my e61 Sep 13 18:29:23 good old keyboard with some spacing between the keys Sep 13 18:29:33 nothing like it anymore :( Sep 13 18:29:53 frenchy, what did you brick it with? Sep 13 18:30:17 MNZ: most important question about your patch so far: Does it save cpu cycles? ;P Sep 13 18:30:30 lcuk, im guessing i trashed the bootloader trying to install mamona, it wont do anything at all now Sep 13 18:31:09 lcuk, ive already spoken to people in here about it and cant seem to fix it, it looks like the only way is to do a cold flash and thats more trouble than its worth for me anyway Sep 13 18:31:10 FrieT, only after you actually disable PA :D Which is what I'm aiming for, but there are some more things to work out, though this speaker thing is a big step Sep 13 18:31:40 mkay well i have no clue about the internals of this thing yet Sep 13 18:31:41 :( frenchy shame Sep 13 18:31:57 i know Sep 13 18:31:58 so i won't hack away at it Sep 13 18:32:00 i'll test tho Sep 13 18:32:03 ive only had it for like a week Sep 13 18:32:10 i'll hack away at apps before going down to the kernel *g* Sep 13 18:33:12 hmm Sep 13 18:34:04 isn't a cold flash possible over usb? Sep 13 18:34:22 thinking of that too, i did a flash over usb recently after fubarring the bootloader.. Sep 13 18:34:26 but that was n900 :p Sep 13 18:34:28 o/ RevdKathy Sep 13 18:34:32 well frenchy I would try to find someway to chage battery Sep 13 18:34:34 hi RevdKathy Sep 13 18:34:38 charge Sep 13 18:34:49 Hi MohammadAG51 and lcuk Sep 13 18:35:09 * MohammadAG51 cold flashed once Sep 13 18:35:19 lcuk, battery was charged when it happened and i have also tested it with a multimeter and it seems to work Sep 13 18:35:26 * RevdKathy is starting to get hot flashes these days. :( Sep 13 18:35:31 MohammadAG51, i cant seem to do it Sep 13 18:35:38 frenchy, hrm Sep 13 18:35:58 frenchy, N900 here though Sep 13 18:35:59 i saw you posting that its totally completely not reacting Sep 13 18:36:00 MohammadAG51, ive seen accounts of people diong it to an n900 but nothing on the n810 Sep 13 18:36:18 the simplest most practical thing, no matter how sure of battery level you are, is to get a known good one Sep 13 18:36:41 computer wont recognize it at all nothing in dmesg Sep 13 18:36:48 exactly Sep 13 18:38:02 well i ordered a new one before it bricked so i will try it when it comes in Sep 13 18:38:20 but everything worked fine before Sep 13 18:39:06 Mohammad: moo, got a question/proposal Sep 13 18:39:35 frenchy, sure, its the simplest thing I can think of right now :S Sep 13 18:40:46 RST38h, shoot Sep 13 18:49:31 EI SAA PEITT Sep 13 18:49:48 MohammadAG51: so vibrator not working... your resolution? Sep 13 18:50:09 hmm? Sep 13 18:50:13 oh Sep 13 18:50:22 echo 150 into sysnode for 2 hours Sep 13 18:50:56 hmm Sep 13 18:51:14 but your vibrator was occassionally working prior to that? Sep 13 18:51:15 digia @web needs some work Sep 13 18:51:19 it's in devel Sep 13 18:51:23 no Sep 13 18:51:31 it squeeked Sep 13 18:51:37 hmm yeah Sep 13 18:51:39 mine doesn Sep 13 18:51:43 worked on day 1, died on day 2, worked in month 2/3 Sep 13 18:51:43 t work at all :) Sep 13 18:52:09 use 255 :P Sep 13 18:53:27 sleep 1; echo 255 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness Sep 13 18:53:30 MohammadAG51: I Sep 13 18:53:39 ve tried 255 couple times Sep 13 18:53:39 don't touch the device, after running that command Sep 13 18:53:50 aaaah Sep 13 18:54:00 the accelerometer will fuck things up Sep 13 18:54:06 `? Sep 13 18:54:16 hmm Sep 13 18:54:25 stop mce Sep 13 18:55:00 nah, but different light conditions, keyboard slides, keyboard keys, screen touches/locks will Sep 13 18:55:11 and probably Noobmonk3y's code Sep 13 18:55:59 good evening Noobmonk3y! Sep 13 18:56:57 * Noobmonk3y grumbles Sep 13 18:57:00 * Noobmonk3y waves! Sep 13 18:57:03 * Noobmonk3y burps Sep 13 18:57:07 * Noobmonk3y needs bacon Sep 13 18:57:47 BACON! Sep 13 18:57:53 * Noobmonk3y hugs kerio Sep 13 18:58:01 * Noobmonk3y waves at venemo, evvvvening Sep 13 18:59:07 * Noobmonk3y cant be assed to find the h/c code, and re-install everything to get started again, feeling way to lazy Sep 13 18:59:27 http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/09/500x_4974418220_c02a9b8cbd_b.jpg Sep 13 18:59:57 lol RST38h Sep 13 19:00:44 * RevdKathy waves at Noobmonk3y Sep 13 19:00:59 RST38h: lol Sep 13 19:01:02 Kathy!!!! Good evening young lady! Sep 13 19:01:17 hi RevdKathy! :) Sep 13 19:01:23 and how are you? i've never asked how your studying/results etc went?!! Sep 13 19:01:24 never seen you on IRC yet Sep 13 19:01:34 she's on more than me ;) Sep 13 19:01:59 Noobmonk3y, perhaps, but it seems that she's also more silent than you :P Sep 13 19:02:04 hehehe :P Sep 13 19:02:12 Silent and not so deadly :P - but very lovely :) Sep 13 19:02:25 Hi Venemo! Sep 13 19:02:59 mohammad: still here? Sep 13 19:03:33 I pop in occasionally, Venemo. When I need a bit of company Sep 13 19:03:51 RevdKathy: I'm a fan of your posts on TMO Sep 13 19:03:56 MohammadAG51, never leaves here :P - he is the resident hobo :) - woooooooooop Sep 13 19:04:02 RST38h, yeah Sep 13 19:04:03 Thank you Sep 13 19:04:06 * RevdKathy bows Sep 13 19:04:16 actually i was out all day :P Sep 13 19:04:36 but technically yeah, bouncer never leaves Sep 13 19:05:25 Mohammad: google for "compcache". See if you would be interested in packaging that properly for Fremantle. Sep 13 19:05:27 RevdKathy: most of the time, when I read some whining/trolling threads and feel the need to comment on them, I eventually find your response, and instead of writing my own, I end up hitting the thanks button below yours Sep 13 19:05:39 Mohammad: May not be a part of the SSU, but definitely worth a look Sep 13 19:05:50 You should write more often - then I could thank you! Sep 13 19:06:05 Mohammad: Looks like people already compiled it for Maemo but there is no proper package Sep 13 19:06:19 RevdKathy: hah, thanks Sep 13 19:06:28 RST38h: compcache... memory compression? Sep 13 19:07:34 RST38h: would that give any actual benefit on a mobile device? Sep 13 19:07:43 RST38h, will do, just need to connect my lappy Sep 13 19:08:00 Ho ho ho: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/13/elop_microsoft_exit_nokia_future/page2.html Sep 13 19:08:06 Notice the mention of Maemo ;) Sep 13 19:08:59 RST38h: lol at that Sep 13 19:09:07 I need a status bar applet that reports battery life and stops bme when it says battery low Sep 13 19:09:16 when the modem dies, shut down device cleanly Sep 13 19:09:25 MohammadAG51: what good would that do? Sep 13 19:09:47 extended battery life Sep 13 19:10:10 actually, i want a more verbose battery reporter Sep 13 19:10:14 High Sep 13 19:10:25 Mid-high Sep 13 19:10:25 Mid Sep 13 19:10:25 Mid-low Sep 13 19:10:25 Low Sep 13 19:10:29 Lower Sep 13 19:10:33 Lowest Sep 13 19:10:35 MohammadAG51: wouldn't it wear off the battery if you discharget it more? Sep 13 19:10:38 OH **** low Sep 13 19:10:38 wow............... Sep 13 19:10:41 does anyone know a Cornelius Gelpke ? Sep 13 19:10:43 then it goes off Sep 13 19:11:00 Noobmonk3y, no but i'd love to meet one :p Sep 13 19:11:07 Noobmonk3y: if you are referring to Cornelius Hald (Conny) then yes Sep 13 19:11:13 Venemo, not sure, never heard of that Sep 13 19:11:18 Well, Cornelius Gelpke just donated 10 to me via my website that i havent updated in 4 months! Sep 13 19:11:29 Noobmonk3y: congrats :) Sep 13 19:11:34 How kind of him! Sep 13 19:11:48 Well he's a maemo user! (God bless google) http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/python2.5-qt4/ Sep 13 19:11:50 MohammadAG51: well, I just read the wikipedia article on Li-Ion batteries Sep 13 19:12:20 dont think it is the same venemo, but i better go and post a massive thankyou! Sep 13 19:12:30 darn, i also better get on with the new healthcheck! Sep 13 19:12:55 MohammadAG51, venemo is right, the bme shutdown threshold is where it is for good reason Sep 13 19:13:39 the modem goes into reset loops a bit before the last-resort brutal hw cutoff of omap-side too.. Sep 13 19:13:47 Noobmonk3y: no, they are not the same Sep 13 19:13:52 :P Sep 13 19:14:24 ShadowJK, I know about the modem bit Sep 13 19:14:28 sim crosses out Sep 13 19:14:40 so I use the power button to turn it off Sep 13 19:14:48 and it shuts down cleanly Sep 13 19:15:31 I wouldn't want to do it, power supply can't be guaranteed for shutdown :/ Sep 13 19:15:35 MohammadAG51: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-ion_battery Sep 13 19:16:26 3.2V is right before the cliff where Li-Ion voltage starts to collapse rapidly :/ Sep 13 19:16:34 MohammadAG51: "overdischarge can irreversibly damage a battery" "Overdischarge can short-circuit the cell, in which case recharging can be unsafe." Sep 13 19:16:41 ShadowJK, actually it is Sep 13 19:17:07 "Depletion below the low-voltage threshold (2.4 to 2.8 V/cell, depending on chemistry) results in a dead battery because the protection circuit (a type of electronic fuse) disables it." Sep 13 19:17:16 so MohammadAG51, be very careful about it Sep 13 19:17:58 my thing broke like this Sep 13 19:18:16 because battery was dead Sep 13 19:18:17 Venemo: all this is very well known, but still 3.0V seems safe enough to shut down, and it would allow bq27200 to properly learn Sep 13 19:18:53 Nobody's grilling the candidates yet. Sep 13 19:19:12 * MohammadAG51 has a suggestion Sep 13 19:19:13 Who wants to hit the mailing list with evil questions with me? *eg* Sep 13 19:19:16 shut down the council Sep 13 19:19:23 and btw trying to recharge a deep discharged LiIon battery usually isn't dangerous but simply futile Sep 13 19:19:24 it's like at most 6% extra capacity for much more than 6% extra wear and tear on it Sep 13 19:20:11 Some of them will come back but heat up lots more during charge and discharge.. Sep 13 19:20:12 DocScrutinizer51: what do you mean by "properly learn"? Sep 13 19:20:21 GAN900: what sort of evil questions? Sep 13 19:21:07 Venemo: bq27200 has a built in notion about actual precise cell capacity. It needs a full charge+discharge cycle to learn this Sep 13 19:21:35 discharge has to go down to some magical voltage, bme usually switching off before reaching this voltage Sep 13 19:21:42 * RevdKathy starts biting fingernails about GAN900's questions Sep 13 19:22:16 Is there an issue with entering ASCII-numeric WEP keys? I keep getting "invalid wep key length". Sep 13 19:22:46 fooblah: yes Sep 13 19:23:13 alterego: There is a problem? Sep 13 19:23:17 DocScrutinizer51: hmm... sounds like a poor design decision Sep 13 19:23:20 prolly interpreted as hex key Sep 13 19:23:21 five characters for a WEP key Sep 13 19:23:33 Venemo: of bme, yes Sep 13 19:23:41 GAN: Why? Does it matter? Sep 13 19:23:42 alterego, 5 or 13 afaik Sep 13 19:23:44 DocScrutinizer, yes Sep 13 19:24:00 though they also could have done a better job at promming the bq27200 Sep 13 19:24:02 DocScrutinizer, are you an electronic engineer? Sep 13 19:24:08 ~jorg Sep 13 19:24:09 lcuk: ah, okay :) Sep 13 19:24:11 ~joerg Sep 13 19:24:12 it has been said that joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer Sep 13 19:24:40 lcuk, 5 or 10 afaik Sep 13 19:24:49 5 ascii, 10 numbers Sep 13 19:24:50 alterego: How do I take a nine-digit ASCII string and convert it to the appropriate hex? Ubuntu does it for me automatically. Sep 13 19:25:14 fooblah: well, that's a WEP passphrase. Sep 13 19:25:17 Not sure. Sep 13 19:25:47 DocScrutinizer: congrats :) Sep 13 19:25:48 fooblah: try "123456789" Sep 13 19:25:56 DocScrutinizer: What? Sep 13 19:26:02 fooblah: with " Sep 13 19:26:12 DocScrutinizer: currently I'm a first-year student in electronic engineering Sep 13 19:26:14 often helps to signal it's a string Sep 13 19:26:15 DocScrutinizer, : Sep 13 19:26:16 My laptop Wifi card requires an ASCII key that is 5 or 13 characters, or a Hex key that is 10 or 26 characters. Sep 13 19:26:49 Is there no algorithm that converts it? Sep 13 19:27:00 IDK Sep 13 19:27:12 I just had to come up with a passphrase of correct length first time and remember it :P Sep 13 19:27:12 or a passphrase that is arbitrary length and not defined how it hashes to key in a particular implementation :-P Sep 13 19:27:16 DocScrutinizer: How could that work? What if '"' is part of the passphrase? Sep 13 19:27:27 lol, dunno Sep 13 19:27:45 * RST38h sighs Sep 13 19:28:12 * DocScrutinizer sighs too Sep 13 19:28:15 ASCII key is converted to the hex key by writing the hex ascii code of each character Sep 13 19:28:37 RST38h: It's not an ASCII key it is an ASCII passphrase. Sep 13 19:28:59 in knetworkmanager you explicitly select type of key Sep 13 19:29:04 for(J=0;Key[J];++J) printf("0x%02X ",Key[J]); Sep 13 19:29:11 fobblah: same thing. Sep 13 19:29:41 Ah, meego 1.1 next month Sep 13 19:29:50 RST38h: I have a 9 digit numeric ASCII string. Isn't that not valid? Sep 13 19:29:54 * RST38h wonders if N900 version will become usable this time Sep 13 19:29:56 meh, use proper keys, problem solved Sep 13 19:30:11 RST38h, well, could be fun. :P Sep 13 19:30:12 foo: valid, although probably not very secure Sep 13 19:30:13 why use numeric-only keys? why use passphrases? Sep 13 19:30:17 RST38h: It "just works" on Ubuntu. I don't understand what magic I need to apply Sep 13 19:30:33 MohammadAG51, that seems negative. Sep 13 19:30:33 RST38h: I keep getting "invalid wep key length" Sep 13 19:30:37 foo:You do not need to apply any magic, just enter it right Sep 13 19:30:50 fooblah: use WPA2 Sep 13 19:30:52 foo: You are doing something wrong. Probably selected a wrong key type. Sep 13 19:31:16 nope, gentlemen - a wep key has to be 5 byte or 13 byte Sep 13 19:31:28 GAN: Grilling questions you mean? No, no longer fun unfortunately. Sep 13 19:31:38 RST38h: I don't get an option for selecting a key type. Sep 13 19:31:57 you can use chars directly, or you use hex, or you use another arbitrary length string and it gets hashed to 13bytes Sep 13 19:32:43 DocScrutinizer: Do you have the hashing algo? The one's I have found on the web keep giving me more than 13bytes Sep 13 19:32:58 the hashing algo is nonstandard Sep 13 19:33:22 DocScrutinizer: What does that mean? Somehow ubuntu dealt with it. Sep 13 19:33:35 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Sep 13 19:33:43 use proper keys, problem solved Sep 13 19:33:51 why use passphrases??? Sep 13 19:33:52 DocScrutinizer: It's not my network Sep 13 19:33:58 OMG Sep 13 19:34:13 what? Sep 13 19:34:37 fooblah: so... go to the connection settings/advanced settings and set it correclty Sep 13 19:34:43 correctly* Sep 13 19:35:02 (are we going to see a proper dictionary definition of "correctly" now?) Sep 13 19:35:39 some routers seem to just fill up too short strings with "0" or spaces Sep 13 19:36:02 others do other weird hashing Sep 13 19:36:25 try "123456789 " Sep 13 19:37:03 DocScrutinizer: Without the quotes? Sep 13 19:37:14 can't you test both? Sep 13 19:37:52 fooblah: use aircrack and hack the key :-P Sep 13 19:38:03 faster than guessing XD Sep 13 19:38:20 DocScrutinizer: I don't have a card that can do packet injection with default drivers Sep 13 19:39:06 Okay it worked with set it through "connection settings". I don't understand why Sep 13 19:39:09 but I'm happy Sep 13 19:39:16 if you have "access" to the network, you can generate large amounts of datatraffic easily, without packet injection Sep 13 19:40:51 * crashanddie points at data sharing websites Sep 13 19:40:57 if you want the injection driver, it's there. Sep 13 19:41:17 DocScrutinizer: the point isn't to generate traffic, it's to generate traffic that matters Sep 13 19:41:18 I know where to get injection driver it just a colossal pain Sep 13 19:41:28 fooblah: no it's not Sep 13 19:42:18 if you say that, you probably don't know where it is Sep 13 19:42:46 crashanddie: Are you talking about on the N800? Sep 13 19:42:56 Ah, no, the n900 Sep 13 19:43:14 my bad, then Sep 13 19:44:45 crashanddie: pkt inj for n900? o.O Sep 13 19:46:27 MohammadAG51: ping Sep 13 19:53:10 MohammadAG51: btw, I have discovered that the N900 can operate for a couple of hours even after the battery low warning, so you have a valid point there Sep 13 19:54:20 indeed Sep 13 19:54:21 yepyep it beeps at me for hours while trying to sleep Sep 13 19:54:32 with low screen brightness and wifi off Sep 13 19:54:35 it runs for an hour Sep 13 19:55:16 MohammadAG: PING Sep 13 19:55:48 crashanddie, was just about to ping you with a /query :P Sep 13 19:55:56 lies Sep 13 19:57:00 MohammadAG: in offline mode, it can play mp3 for an hour Sep 13 19:57:14 MohammadAG: after the battery low beep Sep 13 19:57:26 2 if you stop bme :P Sep 13 19:57:40 though my tracker is an annoyance Sep 13 19:57:43 crashanddie: still happy to test my pbx/freeswitch server? Sep 13 19:57:48 it starts indexing when it beeps battery low Sep 13 19:58:00 trumee: lol, completely forgot about that Sep 13 19:58:16 crashanddie: yup, that is why i reminded you :) Sep 13 19:58:38 Some crazy woman is telling us about how vampires are real, they're just people who can control their cells on a molecular level. The Catholic church brainwashed them into believing sunlight and holy water would hurt them. Sep 13 19:59:01 What about the garlic though? Sep 13 19:59:15 Not to mention steaks... err stakes Sep 13 19:59:22 Yes, the stakes Sep 13 19:59:23 only good against masquitos Sep 13 19:59:53 GAN900: That is really just the fallout from showing True Blood on TV Sep 13 20:00:07 * lcuk puts a steak through RevdKathy Sep 13 20:00:09 (medium rare) Sep 13 20:00:10 Various mentally unstable people tipping over the edge. Sep 13 20:00:19 Well done, lcuk! Sep 13 20:00:27 :D you are welcome Sep 13 20:01:39 how are you kathy? Sep 13 20:02:12 Tired but alive, thanks lcuk. How're you? Sep 13 20:02:25 I am ok Sep 13 20:02:31 had to trudget through manchester today Sep 13 20:02:36 looking for alternative library Sep 13 20:02:40 Why? No car? Sep 13 20:02:45 the big central one in town is closed until 2013! Sep 13 20:02:51 I only found out after I had parked Sep 13 20:03:00 Oh blast. That sucks! Sep 13 20:03:15 * lcuk wanted to take some pictures Sep 13 20:03:20 i adore that library Sep 13 20:03:37 so I ended up sat in the business section of the new library for a bit :) Sep 13 20:03:49 I love all libraries on principle Sep 13 20:03:51 mostly because I couldnt find the soft porn collection Sep 13 20:04:29 RevdKathy, the new one was lots of computers Sep 13 20:04:31 and less books Sep 13 20:04:37 hey RevdKathy, lcuk Sep 13 20:04:38 You need hard copy? I though that was what the internet was for! Sep 13 20:04:43 it felt like a school library, could barely smell the paper Sep 13 20:04:45 RevdKathy: you live on twitter, don't you? Sep 13 20:04:47 Hi crashanddie Sep 13 20:05:09 Not a librbary without books. Lots of books and that awed hush Sep 13 20:05:11 RevdKathy, something about standing in a grand hall with 100s of years of history around you Sep 13 20:05:23 Yeah, old churches do that, too Sep 13 20:05:31 *nod* Sep 13 20:05:35 MohammadAG, you on? Sep 13 20:05:38 lcuk, I agree with you Sep 13 20:05:44 but touching the lovely old ladies gets you hit round the head Sep 13 20:05:51 unlike opening books Sep 13 20:05:52 Noobmonk3y, nope, I'm off Sep 13 20:05:56 meh Sep 13 20:06:00 \o crashanddie Sep 13 20:06:08 Depends - I find old ladies quite like to be hugged Sep 13 20:06:13 :D Sep 13 20:06:28 anyone clever fancy helping soleone with a dependencies issue? pulseaudio is being poo - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62223 Sep 13 20:06:31 when we were at the wedding service couple of weeks ago Sep 13 20:06:42 someone* Sep 13 20:06:48 a pair of old dears behind us "assisted" us into when to stand up :$ Sep 13 20:07:00 and they sung louder than anyone :D Sep 13 20:07:05 * lcuk was impressed Sep 13 20:07:38 The church runs on its Old Dears Sep 13 20:07:49 Noobmonk3y: what's the issue? Sep 13 20:08:05 Venemo, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62223 Sep 13 20:08:18 pulseadio wont install on a healthcheck install Sep 13 20:08:25 pulseaudio* Sep 13 20:08:30 RevdKathy, the organ dude kept switching between an amazing pipe organ and some electronic synth Sep 13 20:08:51 i half expected him to put on shades when playing the synth Sep 13 20:09:17 sounds dead trendy! If people can join in and participate the style of music is whatever works! Sep 13 20:09:45 yup Sep 13 20:10:03 Noobmonk3y: pulseaudio-utils, right? Can I see your debian/control file? Sep 13 20:10:20 venemo, that sounds like the ultimate chat-up line! Sep 13 20:10:22 erm errr lol haven't got the source code on this pc :P - hehe not got round to re-installing! Sep 13 20:10:25 lol kathy! Sep 13 20:10:45 lol! Sep 13 20:10:49 Noobmonk3y: if you have an SVN repo or something, a link to it will suffice Sep 13 20:10:52 and my n900 is having a battery moment :P Sep 13 20:11:05 Venemo, if i was that organised and clever, i wouldnt have these issues :P Sep 13 20:11:20 git confused the buggery out of me Sep 13 20:11:27 ie, git is a git Sep 13 20:11:42 Noobmonk3y: okay. then go to http://maemo.org/packages/ download your own latest source package and pastebin your debian/control file Sep 13 20:11:47 ahaaaaaaaaaaaa Sep 13 20:11:49 sorted venemo! Sep 13 20:12:03 he had maemo repo disabled :P Sep 13 20:12:11 Noobmonk3y: LooooL... :D Sep 13 20:12:27 meh Sep 13 20:12:31 at least it works now :) Sep 13 20:12:33 * lcuk yawns Sep 13 20:13:04 * Noobmonk3y shoves bacon down lcuk's throat Sep 13 20:13:15 ahem! Sep 13 20:13:15 now kathy, does that class as a chat up line? hehehe Sep 13 20:13:23 * Venemo gives lcuk a cup of coffee Sep 13 20:13:32 :D yeah Sep 13 20:13:38 any other offers? Sep 13 20:13:40 lol! Sep 13 20:15:02 Noobmonk3y that's almost a proposal! Sep 13 20:15:13 hehehe! Sep 13 20:15:25 and who said romance was dead in this day n age ;) Sep 13 20:16:18 :O Sep 13 20:16:28 crashanddie, I think I need a ciggy Sep 13 20:16:39 * crashanddie throws a lucky lcuk's way Sep 13 20:17:27 :D ta Sep 13 20:17:34 at least you didnt try to force it upon me :D Sep 13 20:17:44 unlike some monk3y Sep 13 20:18:11 lcuk, you happily enjoyed it, i heard no complaints :P Sep 13 20:18:27 anyway it would be blasphemy if you rejected bacon... in any form :P Sep 13 20:19:32 "mmmn bnnnmmnn mmnnnnm" Sep 13 20:19:55 roughly translated means, gimme a chance to breath but keep it coming Sep 13 20:21:39 lol! Sep 13 20:25:40 GAN900: you going to meegocon? Sep 13 20:26:53 lcuk - as the actress said to the Bishop! Sep 13 20:27:16 :D Sep 13 20:27:29 OMG they have found natural gas under NYC Sep 13 20:27:50 BACON! Sep 13 20:27:51 am i late? Sep 13 20:27:54 yes. Sep 13 20:27:56 :( Sep 13 20:28:06 kerio, never :) - was a great contribution Sep 13 20:28:17 if you are looking for bacon, lcuk is in mid swallow Sep 13 20:28:22 RST38h, hmm? Sep 13 20:28:30 * Noobmonk3y coughs and changes the subject Sep 13 20:28:46 Nice devs swallow... no, I thin I'll leave you gentlemen to this conversation Sep 13 20:28:49 omnomnom Sep 13 20:28:50 I had already finished that piece lol Sep 13 20:28:58 Goodnight all! Sep 13 20:28:59 lol Sep 13 20:29:04 :O RevdKathy good night Sep 13 20:30:05 lol Sep 13 21:03:47 evening javispedro Sep 13 21:03:53 evening Sep 13 21:04:17 how's it going? Sep 13 21:04:52 well, more relaxed lately :) Sep 13 21:05:26 hehe, finished up gsoc? Sep 13 21:06:00 yep, it even worked :) Sep 13 21:06:02 wow javispedro lives Sep 13 21:06:18 hey pupnik Sep 13 21:06:19 happy evning Sep 13 21:06:30 what's news Sep 13 21:06:36 Kill the zombie! Sep 13 21:06:44 It's a trap! Sep 13 21:06:52 javispedro: cool :) Sep 13 21:07:05 crashanddie, don't ping my if you're going offline. Sep 13 21:09:50 well, someone started porting gpSP again, and my PM inbox is flooded with the usual questions... Sep 13 21:10:38 heh Sep 13 21:12:59 Hah Sep 13 21:16:08 priority gmail inbox is a god send, a pity it does not work with offline gmail Sep 13 21:23:12 w00t_: ping Sep 13 21:23:15 ~seen w00t_ Sep 13 21:23:19 w00t_ is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 15h 12m 4s, last said: 'moin thiago_home btw :)'. Sep 13 21:26:17 MohammadAG, ping Sep 13 21:27:06 bong Sep 13 21:35:16 hey hey hey anyone here knows how to mess with nokia n800? Sep 13 21:35:36 you can throw it into a bucket filled with salt water. Sep 13 21:35:50 lol Sep 13 21:35:50 Also - it may blend. Sep 13 21:35:56 In what manner mess with? Sep 13 21:36:00 maybe Sep 13 21:36:14 well i mean with reformatting or reflashing it Sep 13 21:36:28 or adding another OS to it Sep 13 21:37:06 ~flashing Sep 13 21:37:07 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 13 21:37:55 DeeGeneRaL: do you have a specific question? :) Sep 13 21:38:27 okay, yes i do Sep 13 21:38:49 my n800's screen is scrolling out of no where so im wondering what can i do to fix it Sep 13 21:38:57 ?< question mark Sep 13 21:39:00 ah... Sep 13 21:39:36 DeeGeneRaL: like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm5TYGwTwU ? Sep 13 21:39:51 yes Sep 13 21:40:07 but if i click to go on the web or play mp3's it stops Sep 13 21:41:07 somebody should write a small TSR that puts the screen in the correct position :p Sep 13 21:41:16 lol nice bug Sep 13 21:41:24 crazy bug Sep 13 21:41:26 "hardware bug". Sep 13 21:41:39 oh shit bug ^ Sep 13 21:41:44 im searching to see if anyone out there has found a fix for it Sep 13 21:41:55 make the SW x wobble with it Sep 13 21:42:01 s/x/X/ :P Sep 13 21:42:24 yeah - I'd go wit hardare bug. Sep 13 21:42:32 Though I'd try flashing it. Sep 13 21:43:09 so far i see difficulty if i use win xp, but with linux its easier. but i only have windos Sep 13 21:43:27 javispedro heya Sep 13 21:43:27 Heh, WinDOS Sep 13 21:43:41 javispedro: what is cooking? anything new and exciting? Sep 13 21:44:08 RST38h: helo. nope, just blowing the dust off the old plucker maemo port Sep 13 21:44:37 i was hoping of just placing the os image on SD card and doing everything from the n800 Sep 13 21:45:27 javispedro: care to finish that openttd thing? the "newspaper" banners that show up make it unplayable =) Sep 13 21:45:35 and ive read so far that replacing the screen is the way to fix it. Sep 13 21:49:01 i wonder if installing android (a different OS) would change the way the tablet reacts.? Sep 13 21:49:01 RST38h: you can disable them and put tickers only Sep 13 21:49:19 DeeGeneRaL: try nitdroid if you wish, but don't expect too much Sep 13 21:50:15 javispedro: axk Sep 13 21:50:19 i.e. ack Sep 13 21:50:30 ill try anything, but i need tut's Sep 13 21:50:33 lol Sep 13 21:50:41 im looking on youtube. right now Sep 13 21:51:49 whats bad about nitdroid? Sep 13 21:51:54 venemo Sep 13 21:52:33 sp3000: basic wishes for a phone: Sep 13 21:53:04 1. if the volume is 3/10 for talking, then when a call is dropped don't play the call error tone at 10/10! Sep 13 21:53:17 * timeless kicks an s40(?) phone Sep 13 21:53:26 i was told i can try Lubuntu on my n800. but i still need tut Sep 13 21:53:30 timeless, as you get older, you get deafer :P Sep 13 21:53:46 deader too Sep 13 21:53:46 2. when syncing calendar events don't undelete events(!) Sep 13 21:53:48 lubuntu? Sep 13 21:53:55 hm, I get that with some N900 events too :) Sep 13 21:54:14 lcuk: because the phones keep yelling at you? Sep 13 21:54:23 ye! Sep 13 21:54:28 it never used to happen :D Sep 13 21:54:32 s ^ Sep 13 21:54:37 shadowjk: that was my n900, i'll yell at the mfe guy about it later Sep 13 21:54:42 (2) Sep 13 21:55:05 ShadowJK: Read about compcache btw? Sep 13 21:55:28 3. don't try to be connected to presence when there's absolutely no network (including no cellular coverage) :o Sep 13 21:56:23 4. do try to keep date and time for more than 20s w/o a primary battery (grr) Sep 13 21:56:33 timeless: Good. None of these will ever be fixed in your N900. Sep 13 21:56:51 makes for a wonderful phone, eh? Sep 13 21:56:58 - worst case, store the last time you had to a writable bit and use it as a seed when you ask the user for the new time Sep 13 21:57:13 timeless, that date/time thing is strange, because when it prompts for settings, the data/time suggested always look correct to me Sep 13 21:57:20 it's still going to be better than 2009(!) Sep 13 21:57:40 shadowjk: that's your cell network fixing things up Sep 13 21:57:53 supposedly it should do that Sep 13 21:58:01 but it rarely works in .eu Sep 13 21:58:08 ShadowJK: there's a sim in your phone?!!! Sep 13 21:58:13 heretic ...er Sep 13 21:58:49 4. if you're a map or camera and are trying to deal w/ gps Sep 13 21:59:07 timeless, yeah ime on .fi operators you only get time updates when you connect to gprs Sep 13 21:59:10 don't claim there's no gps fix when the system and other apps *have* a gps fix (_rr!) Sep 13 21:59:20 lol Sep 13 21:59:21 what i dont get is that the screen scrolling doesnt happen when its booting up... Sep 13 21:59:28 shadowjk: i'm in .uk atm Sep 13 21:59:46 ah, you escaped Sep 13 22:00:09 5. don't reset the geotagging prefs each time the user switches sims (grr!) Sep 13 22:00:24 shadowjk: summer vacation Sep 13 22:00:37 6. Don't round off the GPS position to the nearest second Sep 13 22:00:53 anyone got any experience with routers? Sep 13 22:00:55 ...in autumn, in the uk -- sounds like summer alright :P Sep 13 22:01:04 this linksys WRT350Nv2 is kinda borked Sep 13 22:01:08 7. Kill Tracker. Really, just kill Tracker. Sep 13 22:01:08 MohammadAG: yes - I have a 1/4", and a 1/2" one Sep 13 22:01:14 sp3000: how's the weather in .fi? Sep 13 22:01:16 192.168.1.1 (router's IP) points to N900 Sep 13 22:01:18 8. With fire. Sep 13 22:01:24 the weather here has been fine Sep 13 22:01:58 timeless: 12 to 16°C says foreca Sep 13 22:02:21 6. if you're a map app (maep) and the user turns on tracking, don't lose the track just because the user closed your window (!) Sep 13 22:02:26 my pocket had switched the applet to tampere in the morning, and I was confused Sep 13 22:02:33 heh Sep 13 22:02:36 * RST38h surprised after finding out that the whole reason for Silverlight has apparently been an embedded video player Sep 13 22:02:36 rain? Sep 13 22:02:37 as it was showing heavy rain and it was sunny ;) Sep 13 22:02:38 SpeedEvil, Linksys/TP-Link Sep 13 22:02:45 I don't mind DD-WRT/OpenWRT Sep 13 22:02:49 timeless, it resets geotagging to disabled "randomly" for me Sep 13 22:02:49 rst: heh? Sep 13 22:02:56 that was a question btw :P Sep 13 22:03:04 shadowjk: really? please file a bug? Sep 13 22:03:07 4. do try to keep date and time for more than 20s w/o a primary battery (grr) Sep 13 22:03:10 get a replacement Sep 13 22:03:14 i was assuming Sep 13 22:03:20 mohammadag: eh? Sep 13 22:03:23 mine keeps date and time Sep 13 22:03:38 mine loses it if i don't swap sims fast enough Sep 13 22:03:45 and keeps it if i do Sep 13 22:03:56 it always resets settings when swapping sims Sep 13 22:03:58 i swap sims a lot atm Sep 13 22:04:17 timeless, well I was roaming at the time, same sim as always, and aggressively denying the 17 "Connect to Internet?" popups per second... Sep 13 22:04:21 MahammadAG, I heard you once had your vibro working for a full night.. was it continuous? I am wondering how much stress can the vibro stand Sep 13 22:04:31 i have 3sims and 2phones instead of 3sims and 3phones :( Sep 13 22:04:35 that sounds... just wrong. Sep 13 22:04:39 one of my n900s is at home Sep 13 22:05:02 wait, the camera app has exactly one setting that's accessed only through the menu? Sep 13 22:05:03 shadikka: which? Sep 13 22:05:15 * sp3000 never realized it was that awesome Sep 13 22:05:16 sp3000: spunds right Sep 13 22:05:27 well, I doubt the battery cover will be able handle 1 phone:2 SIMs for long Sep 13 22:05:28 ShadSEC, no, was using the call vibra pattern Sep 13 22:05:37 oh ok Sep 13 22:05:50 the connection dialog sucks Sep 13 22:05:54 it pops up in offline mode Sep 13 22:05:55 2sims1phone Sep 13 22:05:56 * ShadowJK discovers geotagging disabled itself again Sep 13 22:05:58 sp3000: finnish ui design ftw Sep 13 22:06:05 timeless, ha? Sep 13 22:06:12 I'm sure it looked good on paper Sep 13 22:06:15 timeless: "I heard you once had your vibro working for a full night" taken out of context. Sep 13 22:06:20 ShadowJK: geotagging gets disabled if your phone is in offline mode Sep 13 22:06:24 I had to think for a couple of heartbeats before realizing this was #maemo. Sep 13 22:06:35 I was thinking about running it directly in relation to signal strenght, but probably thats not very safe.... Sep 13 22:06:42 vibra motor was broken you perverts :P Sep 13 22:06:45 sp3000: w/ lots of beer Sep 13 22:06:48 lol Sep 13 22:07:23 RST38h: I have given up. I use gpxrecorder - the desktop widget - take pics - and then run a geocoder app to geocode the pics against the timestamp and gpx date. Sep 13 22:07:27 RST38h: Works well. Sep 13 22:07:41 SpeedEvil: Too complex.I do not geocode at all. Sep 13 22:07:43 RST38h: facepalm Sep 13 22:07:49 7. if you're making a database of call logs, include the elapsed time(!) Sep 13 22:07:55 * sp3000 is reminded of bluetooth-on-update Sep 13 22:08:02 SpeedEvil: Just using a Canon camera. It produces better pictures too. Sep 13 22:08:16 Same thing works with canon Sep 13 22:08:20 - even if you can't imagine a use for it (because you're a spoiled finnish hillbilly) Sep 13 22:08:28 you just take a pic of the time on the phone first. Sep 13 22:08:35 heh Sep 13 22:08:45 then ocr it Sep 13 22:08:51 no Sep 13 22:08:56 ahhahha Sep 13 22:09:01 speedevil: got a non desktop app ver of that? Sep 13 22:09:02 SpeedEvil: righto, just have the day's newspaper and a watch handy ;) Sep 13 22:09:06 You take the time once. You then look at the offset of this time and the local clock Sep 13 22:09:15 and correlate against the GPX Sep 13 22:09:17 it is all too complicated. Sep 13 22:09:29 http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ does it Sep 13 22:09:32 * sp3000 claims using a phone screen for that is cheating Sep 13 22:09:36 complicated things are weighted against their true value, then usually discarded Sep 13 22:09:37 but that's not really standalone. Sep 13 22:09:41 There are standalone packages Sep 13 22:10:17 sp3000: oh, i got to use Ovi for windows in Leeds Sep 13 22:10:30 sounds exotic Sep 13 22:10:39 my host family had some nokia phones which were more or less working fine w/ pc suite Sep 13 22:10:49 you fixed that right ;) Sep 13 22:10:54 until they got an "update" for Ovi Suite Sep 13 22:11:21 when i got there, they were upset that this "update" had broken everythinh Sep 13 22:11:22 update! Sep 13 22:11:30 s/nh/ng/ Sep 13 22:11:30 timeless meant: when i got there, they were upset that this "update" had broken everything Sep 13 22:11:34 xp->vista like update. Sep 13 22:11:37 * ShadSEC wonders if running the vibro continuoysly at half brightness would cause more stress than full brightnes for half the time Sep 13 22:11:51 they were also trying to figure out the point of ovi music Sep 13 22:12:04 they'd pretty much concluded it was useless Sep 13 22:12:12 ShadSEC: on the user? Sep 13 22:12:23 we eventually discovered it was possible to use Sep 13 22:12:30 oh right. Sep 13 22:12:41 timeless, ive never seen pcsuite do anything good, I bet some manager discovered pcsuite had accidentally become useful, and mandated rewrite back to the normality of "Launch 100 megs if resident services that do absolutely nothing besides poll random crap 99.9% of the time when you havent got a phone plugged in" :) Sep 13 22:12:42 so3000, on the motor... what sick thing are you thinking about? Sep 13 22:13:31 well it sounded like an interesting experiment ;) Sep 13 22:13:39 PCSuite used to sync with a variety of Windoze calendar apps Sep 13 22:13:43 Ovi Suite syncs with ... Sep 13 22:13:48 8. if you have an MMC slot with a magic plastic door (s60), then you better show the user a clear indicator for "door ajar" when there's a card inserted and you're ignoring it(!)! Sep 13 22:13:58 dunno, pcsuite's been happy about the interwebs connectivity stuff when I've needed such Sep 13 22:14:00 Outlook. Sep 13 22:14:08 and it doesn't even do that well. Sep 13 22:14:20 pcsuite does a couple of things Sep 13 22:14:22 I guess I will find out, I just hope it is not too hard to replace if burnt Sep 13 22:14:30 s60 and also N8x0 :) Sep 13 22:14:43 1. it creates dun connections which you can later use w/o pc suite (important) Sep 13 22:14:46 ShadSEC: ...the user? Sep 13 22:14:49 ~ping Sep 13 22:14:50 ~pong Sep 13 22:14:52 and N900 (magic magnet held by fumes of glue and hope) Sep 13 22:15:09 2. it has a backup app, for when you want to have your s60 phone serviced by nokia care/nokia house Sep 13 22:15:10 sp3000, the user will be fine :) Sep 13 22:16:03 3. it provides safer than raw mass storage access via windows explorer(etc) for computers/devices that don't support MTP (n900, wXP?& Sep 13 22:16:41 wxp supports mtp when wmpx (x >= 10) is installed for all I know Sep 13 22:16:44 4. it provides a vaguely working sync solution for outlook users who don't use exchange server Sep 13 22:16:54 javispedro: ok Sep 13 22:17:00 ass rage mode safer than...? o.O Sep 13 22:17:14 anyway, pcsuite is not entirely useles Sep 13 22:17:30 oh, on some phones it's possible to write sms's using pcsuite Sep 13 22:17:42 it syncs with obsolete but still easier to use (think grandma) PIM software like Lotus Organizer Sep 13 22:17:50 which could be cool if your phone is e.g. a lipstick phone w/ no buttons Sep 13 22:18:01 Admittedly I only used it in the days of cables with usb-serial converters in the plug :) Sep 13 22:18:24 ovi suite is just a usability nightmare Sep 13 22:18:47 the music thing totally failed to address the user's goal: Sep 13 22:18:59 seems you're having fun :) Sep 13 22:18:59 "load music from computer onto phone" Sep 13 22:19:25 doc: i also recovered a deleted photo from someone else's MMC Sep 13 22:19:32 oh Sep 13 22:19:40 back to phone design Sep 13 22:19:56 oh well Sep 13 22:20:22 9. if you include gps, always include a way to show satellite info, because "general area" is a crappy indication Sep 13 22:20:29 It is not like Nokia's Ovi* stuff not working is news Sep 13 22:20:42 rst: you're a techy Sep 13 22:21:00 In fact, the rule of thumb is "if it spells 'ovi' it does not work" Sep 13 22:21:06 i rarely encounter *normal* native English speakers w/ ovi Sep 13 22:21:23 the reason is that ime, they don't buy nokia phones in the first place Sep 13 22:21:33 Brits do Sep 13 22:21:34 general area? you mean like when Ovi Maps places this red dot on the map miles off because it doesn't really know where you are? Sep 13 22:21:36 if they're pissing their enterprisey customers, killing pcsuite, and not-entirely-pleasing young hipster customers, with that ovi disaster, who are they gonna piss next? Sep 13 22:21:39 (this remains true, the phones in question were free) Sep 13 22:21:45 And,bloody hell,they are native English speakers, right? Sep 13 22:21:49 rst: keyword here is buy Sep 13 22:22:08 javispedro: YOU! Sep 13 22:22:10 but, yeah, this british family had 2 Sep 13 22:22:16 touché. Sep 13 22:22:17 javispedro: (and only because they already pissed ME) Sep 13 22:22:45 shadowjk: when maep draws a circle big enough to cover small countries Sep 13 22:22:53 :) Sep 13 22:22:56 javispedro: My personal theory is that the Elop guy will go after Blackberry in US market Sep 13 22:23:06 javispedro: Whatever that may mean Sep 13 22:23:18 rst: there was a lady in nokia-us who tried that Sep 13 22:23:32 So, they will probably be pissing US suits next Sep 13 22:23:36 timeless, you know that's when location system has nfc, and just looks at the country code of the cell network :) Sep 13 22:23:38 and was killed by the management inquisition? Sep 13 22:23:43 she was more or less blamed for the entire e-series disaster Sep 13 22:23:53 e-series is a disaster? really? Sep 13 22:24:06 rst: from someone's perspective Sep 13 22:24:12 One would never know, given that E72 is one of the best sellers Sep 13 22:24:29 E series is the only s60 devices I've had :-) Sep 13 22:24:39 So, with Elop we may see a bit more of the E-series now =) Sep 13 22:24:51 E900! E900! (C)wazd Sep 13 22:25:03 sure, they're marketing fail like usual.. Sep 13 22:25:19 shadowjk: ... Sep 13 22:25:22 marketting Sep 13 22:25:24 nokia Sep 13 22:25:29 but to me it was "omg, qwerty! fast typing!" Sep 13 22:25:35 ShadowJK: Maybe finns should start selling them at IKEA stores or something... Sep 13 22:25:39 two words never found together in positive sentences Sep 13 22:25:52 rst: ikea is swedish.. Sep 13 22:26:05 swedish, finnish, who gives a damn Sep 13 22:26:09 that can be solved with a quick war Sep 13 22:26:20 and given nokia's record, if they do, it'd be a good time to short ikea... Sep 13 22:26:21 actually nokia managed by accident a rather cute viral marketing of E71 in .fi Sep 13 22:26:31 do tell Sep 13 22:26:32 tactical nukes ftw Sep 13 22:26:42 ShadowJK: Persuade IKEA to start making niches corresponding to common Nokia phones in their wood furniture Sep 13 22:27:02 RST38h, I'll check compcache tomorrow, gotta go now Sep 13 22:27:05 night o/ Sep 13 22:27:05 timeless, well actually it was a copy of a successful advert for Commodore 64 back in the days Sep 13 22:27:15 g'night Sep 13 22:27:23 nite MohammadAG Sep 13 22:28:14 lcuk: btw, there? Sep 13 22:29:00 Same 80s-look on the ad, but with E71 instead of C64, and the text "The Republic's communicator" instead of the original "The Republic's computer". It appealed to all those adults that grew up with the then extremely common C64 8-bit computer :-) Sep 13 22:29:39 Just fit an E72+1 into a C64 chassis Sep 13 22:29:44 javispedro, yeah but my head has melted someway along the way Sep 13 22:29:53 i am going to play portal for a bit Sep 13 22:29:59 lcuk: np Sep 13 22:30:16 heh Sep 13 22:30:35 ~ping Sep 13 22:30:36 ~pong Sep 13 22:30:48 So yeah, copy of a 80s ad by a company that died because they didn't keep up with the competition and failed at marketing.. Sep 13 22:30:56 :D Sep 13 22:31:11 javispedro:pocketable c64 chassis Sep 13 22:31:11 heh Sep 13 22:31:20 only works in finland.. Sep 13 22:31:28 yep Sep 13 22:31:31 RST38h: it will nearly sell itself! Sep 13 22:31:32 JeriEllsworth (on freenode) wrote that c64 in a joystick mod a few years ago :) Sep 13 22:31:45 lcuk: don't smoke too much catnip Sep 13 22:32:41 timeless, you know if the right people tried do what you just did, observe normal people trying to use stuff... Sep 13 22:32:46 Ok - I've lost here I reset the data usage counter - it's not in settings -> internet connections. Sep 13 22:32:49 * javispedro checks his "what will nokia do next" crystal ball: "release ipad clone". Sep 13 22:32:53 heh DocScrutinizer Sep 13 22:33:07 naaah Sep 13 22:33:16 but then again, whenever I observe normal people trying to use computers I mostly want to shoot myself Sep 13 22:33:19 would be a shame if they were so short sighted :) Sep 13 22:33:34 but anyway, gnite guys \o Sep 13 22:33:34 SpeedEvil1, it's in settings-phone Sep 13 22:33:43 cya lcuk Sep 13 22:34:00 So it is. Sep 13 22:34:04 Thanks Sep 13 22:34:45 #define normal_people Sep 13 22:35:54 p(normal_people, buy_iphones) := true Sep 13 22:36:17 http://enivax.net/jk/data.png :D Sep 13 22:36:26 p(has_iphone,goes_mad) := true Sep 13 22:36:42 speed: it's in phone Sep 13 22:37:35 10. if you're going to have a data counter and it's going to have a date field Sep 13 22:38:01 .. don't default to "i don't know qhwn i started counting" (!) Sep 13 22:38:23 - just fill the field in as soon as the user gives you a date Sep 13 22:38:26 default to the unix epoch ;P Sep 13 22:38:55 11. don't use a single running counter for data, use a database, and tag the sim and the day Sep 13 22:39:16 12. Tell the fucking user when the SIM is malfunctioning Sep 13 22:39:18 - it's likely that two different sims will have totally unrelated data plans (duh) Sep 13 22:39:26 * SpeedEvil sighs. Sep 13 22:39:36 speedevil: i've actually gotten that message iirc Sep 13 22:39:42 timeless: yes. Sep 13 22:39:49 speedevil: i've actually gotten that message iirc Sep 13 22:39:52 timeless: It is a very occasional 'sim registration failed' Sep 13 22:39:54 i can't recall if i took a picture of it Sep 13 22:40:02 timeless: This is a very, very poor wording. Sep 13 22:40:06 also log the operator used :/ Sep 13 22:40:07 oh, that's one of my favorites Sep 13 22:40:24 timeless: It also does not indicate that there is a problem in the cell-info-box in the status area. Sep 13 22:40:25 because my n900 fails at distinguishing home operator from roaming.. Sep 13 22:40:39 And if the phone is locked - the only appearance of it is in syslog Sep 13 22:40:46 12. for roaming data, treat each roaming operator as a distinct entry Sep 13 22:40:48 Which is so mind-bendingly broken... Sep 13 22:40:53 (per day) Sep 13 22:41:21 Which reminds me - I need to call t-mo and get a new SIM Sep 13 22:41:32 cleaning it has not worked. Sep 13 22:41:41 14. if there's a problem w/ the sim, do use the cell provider field for it Sep 13 22:41:58 hrm, we'll skip 13 Sep 13 22:42:14 ShadowJK: simply disable roaming Sep 13 22:42:21 ShadowJK: it is damn expensive anyway Sep 13 22:42:42 "Sim registration failed" is also a problem with the network sometimes.. Cycling via offline for a minute fixes it for me Sep 13 22:42:53 15. if there's a problem sending an sms, and you use a conversation style view, do provide the error report inline in the conversation, it's probably important(!) Sep 13 22:42:59 RST38h, disable roaming on n900? Sep 13 22:43:04 ShadowJK: I'm 96% sure here it's with the SIM here. Sep 13 22:43:13 ShadowJK: No, disable roaming at your cell service operator Sep 13 22:43:21 ShadowJK: Bending the SIM contacts out meant I had a basically solid connection for a day. Sep 13 22:43:27 ah Sep 13 22:43:34 ShadowJK: Call them and tell you do not want roaming on this sim card, period. Sep 13 22:43:45 timeless: (skip 13) doesn't matter - there's been 12, 12a Sep 13 22:44:58 actually I want to be able to tell n900 "dont use data and dont ASK to use data unless I manually activate data, and then don't do any background shit like checking for updates or email" Sep 13 22:45:38 doc: yeah Sep 13 22:45:59 that brings me to Sep 13 22:46:05 16 Sep 13 22:46:53 16. if you're going to let apps bring up a dialer prompt (ovi maps) provide a way for the user to dismiss the dialog for an extended period for that app (because it's stupid) Sep 13 22:46:53 ShadowJK: That is actually doable for email. Sep 13 22:47:06 ShadowJK: rewire your brain so that it reflexively dismisses the selection connection dialog. works! Sep 13 22:47:15 ShadowJK: The only offender is the Ovi Maps (and the Camera app that wants to do geotagging) Sep 13 22:47:45 17. geotagging should be done automatically but not while taking photos Sep 13 22:47:49 ...grr Sep 13 22:47:56 and upgrade checking which eats a few megabytes when you do connect to internet Sep 13 22:48:01 18. KILL TRACKER ALREADY. Sep 13 22:48:03 pissing off the user while on a train... Sep 13 22:48:22 99. Don't piss the damn user. Sep 13 22:48:27 shadowjk: problem "apt sucks" Sep 13 22:48:31 solution: ditch apt Sep 13 22:48:41 ShadowJK: There is another funny problem there Sep 13 22:48:56 ShadowJK: Take any wifi network that wants authorization or a click-through Sep 13 22:49:03 the problem is that apt really is not a good design for package updates Sep 13 22:49:19 ShadowJK: When you connect to it, all your messaging accounts activate and start trying to sign in at once Sep 13 22:49:34 solution a): let me disable the checking b) teach phone to distinguish between home operator and other operators and only check for updates on home operator Sep 13 22:49:45 rst: yeah, that's fun Sep 13 22:49:49 (btw: without any ssl checking, which means the AP's captive proxy now has all of your messaging account credentials) Sep 13 22:50:08 javis? eeps?! Sep 13 22:50:10 or at least those who use https-like login :) Sep 13 22:50:19 ShadowJK: Which a) usually makes some of them stuck and requires command line kill and b) freaks out the poor hotspot which has not expected such a hot activity Sep 13 22:50:44 timeless: I've never seen it complain about wrong ssl cert, which my older palm used to do when a captive proxy was redirecting login attempts to its stupid site. Sep 13 22:51:20 javis: please set up an evil hotspot and test Sep 13 22:51:28 not evil Sep 13 22:51:31 just dumb Sep 13 22:51:33 and file a bug Sep 13 22:51:50 evil = answers all dns w/ one ip Sep 13 22:51:51 yea, filing a bug is especially helpful nowadays Sep 13 22:51:59 timeless: NOTABUG/WONTFIX Sep 13 22:52:02 * javispedro sets an evil dns instead Sep 13 22:52:02 = answers 443 w/ a Sep 13 22:52:19 kerio: bugs at this point are info gathering for future products Sep 13 22:52:21 kerio: tbh I'm not sure wheter it's a bug a "normal" user would want fixed. Sep 13 22:52:26 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10354 Sep 13 22:52:27 Bug 10354: Symbol virtual keyboard inconsistent to access from hardware keyboard. Sep 13 22:52:29 and they more or less always have been Sep 13 22:52:40 talk.google.com tends to cause lots of ssl cert warnings periodically Sep 13 22:52:40 timeless: the "evil" one stops dns tunneling Sep 13 22:52:45 WONTFIXASSPECWRITERISANASSHAT Sep 13 22:52:48 SpeedEvil: Ah I can quote these for hours Sep 13 22:53:33 SpeedEvil: From that stupid no-physical-keyboard-layout-switch bug (still not fixed) to no-copy-in-modest to tracker-brings-system-down to system-slows-down-in-5-days Sep 13 22:53:33 In what planet should not mashing the sym and shift keys not consistently bring up the sym keybs Sep 13 22:53:55 planet maemo Sep 13 22:54:05 since you need sym+fn Sep 13 22:54:18 not sym+shift Sep 13 22:54:28 well - yeah Sep 13 22:54:30 i actually prefer it this way Sep 13 22:54:35 in sovjet russia system brings down tracker Sep 13 22:54:37 the bug description is right Sep 13 22:54:56 SpeedEvil: you wouldn't be able to do ctrl+number Sep 13 22:54:59 SpeedEvil: And yes, I almost feel like at Nokia the design specs are detrimental to development rather than helpful =) Sep 13 22:55:26 rst: they are Sep 13 22:55:28 always Sep 13 22:55:52 it's a flaw we inherited from the hardware ethos of the mother company Sep 13 22:56:01 I disagree somewhat. Sep 13 22:56:12 maybe we can lose it w/ new management Sep 13 22:56:17 design specs are good, when they are used to enforce a sane UI. Sep 13 22:56:22 ... Sep 13 22:56:24 YEAHRIGHT/NOTACHANCE Sep 13 22:56:27 you won't hehe Sep 13 22:56:29 +1 Sep 13 22:56:34 And avoid user pointless UI breakage. Sep 13 22:56:49 speed: not going to happen Sep 13 22:56:49 But design specs used as a defence against bugs in the design specs. Sep 13 22:56:50 ... Sep 13 22:56:52 yeah. Sep 13 22:56:58 to do that you need something else Sep 13 22:57:01 Only if you stop writing exact specs internally and your management can somehow sell it to its management as the right thing Sep 13 22:57:06 timeless: An AK47? Sep 13 22:57:10 more or less you need me w/ despotic powers Sep 13 22:57:10 * javispedro lols at #10354 Sep 13 22:57:20 bug #10354 Sep 13 22:57:22 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10354 Symbol virtual keyboard inconsistent to access from hardware keyboard. Sep 13 22:57:29 the above one :P Sep 13 22:57:51 the spec authors historically sat next to eachother Sep 13 22:57:54 some s60 devices have dedicated sym and ctrl keys :) Sep 13 22:58:05 and didn't manage to product compatible specs Sep 13 22:58:11 MTHEL >> AK47 Sep 13 22:58:28 DocScrutinizer: requires *way* more power Sep 13 22:58:34 shadowjk: iirc my e61i did Sep 13 22:58:38 that's the point :-P Sep 13 22:58:44 do you have enough eneloops Sep 13 22:58:45 sadly i recycled it @nokia house Sep 13 22:58:57 they don't service it anymore :( Sep 13 22:59:46 kerio: more power in => more power out Sep 13 23:00:40 kerio: MTHELS work with acetylene and deuterium and fluor iirc Sep 13 23:02:19 * javispedro notes that while Jabber accounts do have a "do not ignore invalid certificates" setting, GTalk accounts do not. Sep 13 23:02:43 do NOT ignore... sweeeeet Sep 13 23:03:12 translating from spanish locale, not the real message, but same meaning. Sep 13 23:03:44 javis: install my localization Sep 13 23:03:53 it gives you a tool to do string lookups Sep 13 23:06:39 Woo! Sep 13 23:06:43 * SpeedEvil has a | Sep 13 23:06:52 (after digging through the hoover for it) Sep 13 23:07:03 moin Sep 13 23:07:13 seen http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=815104#post815104 ? Sep 13 23:10:36 * SpeedEvil wonders where his class D amp is at. Sep 13 23:12:06 any hope in fixing some tiny 100-wire cable thing found connecting a cell phone LCD/webcam/speaker to the main base? Sep 13 23:12:08 is anything known about problems falling back to gsm if no 3g? /me had to force gsm to stop gsm keeping disconnecting... Sep 13 23:12:11 x.x Sep 13 23:14:30 nox-, in general it's a big problem with every device, since 3g-2g fallback needs both modem firmware and operator's network to be bugfree Sep 13 23:14:34 luke-jr: generally not. Sep 13 23:14:46 :/ Sep 13 23:14:48 is there a way to tell the network go from gsm gprs to 3.5g without having to reconnect and thus changing ip? Sep 13 23:14:58 honestly, I'd just as much prefer to hijack the LCD for something else… Sep 13 23:15:05 luke-jr: I have repaired a 0.5mm pitch FPC that I tore. And it was 'fun' Sep 13 23:15:06 at this point it's all in pieces Sep 13 23:15:20 as such, when you complain to device vendor, they blame the operator's misconfigured network, and when you complain to operator they blame the vendor's buggy firmware Sep 13 23:15:21 luke-jr: hijacking the LCD is typically very tricky. Sep 13 23:15:52 only thing I've ever seen work was when thousands of cuatomers returned their devices and canceled their contracts Sep 13 23:16:03 ShadowJK, heh ok Sep 13 23:16:09 Can anyone remind me of the search terms for the nokia n900 'manual' Sep 13 23:16:31 so ill just have to switch to 3g from time to time to see if 3g is back (it was working earlier...) Sep 13 23:16:33 ShadSEC, it doesn't disconnect for me, keeps IP and stuff Sep 13 23:16:47 I'd suspect it depends on the operator then Sep 13 23:16:56 yeah Sep 13 23:17:01 it's down to two silver-backed LCD pieces now Sep 13 23:17:10 I suspect I might be in for a mess if I take those apart? Sep 13 23:18:34 shadowjk, you just change the mode to 3g and it keeps the connection up with the same ip? Sep 13 23:20:32 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1644470&l=b249b87927&id=1496065002 Sep 13 23:20:37 is there any hope⁇? XD Sep 13 23:20:40 shadsec: try an ipv6 tunnel :) Sep 13 23:20:51 ShadSEC, yep. There's a second or two where no data is moving, though Sep 13 23:21:09 if your inpoint is ipv6 and your outpoint is the other side of the tunnel Sep 13 23:21:23 you might survive local ipv4 changes better :) Sep 13 23:22:27 hmm Sep 13 23:22:45 timeless, in fact I am using openvpn, but I was wondering if the switch would be doable Sep 13 23:22:47 that camera connector is intact… maybe I can build a portable video recorder Sep 13 23:23:01 sp3000: ping Sep 13 23:23:16 yawn Sep 13 23:23:22 ShadowJK, in mine, it changes the ip Sep 13 23:23:53 * sp3000 opens an eye Sep 13 23:24:18 SpeedEvil: ^ Sep 13 23:25:23 SpeedEvil: which manual is that Sep 13 23:28:11 uh, how do i get that? Sep 13 23:28:30 err, not that, soome other that :) Sep 13 23:30:30 luke-jr: In principle yes. Sep 13 23:30:57 luke-jr: However - do you have a microcontroller or camera coprocessor that can eat a frame in 1/60th of a second. Sep 13 23:32:17 sp3000: http://nds1.nokia.com/phones/files/guides/Nokia_N900_UG_en.pdf Sep 13 23:36:00 SpeedEvil: yeah, "user guide", but manual could be other things too :) Sep 13 23:36:55 sp3000: yes - I was hoping for different verbiage in the manual. Sep 13 23:37:00 To fight a bug Sep 13 23:41:42 hey, how do i force modest to send mail? Sep 13 23:42:08 grr Sep 13 23:44:37 hrm, what's my password? Sep 13 23:44:46 1234? Sep 13 23:45:05 does modest store passwords in plaintext somewhere convenient? Sep 13 23:45:53 oh, hkb fail Sep 13 23:46:25 timeless: apt-get threaten modest Sep 13 23:46:35 timeless: gconf Sep 13 23:46:53 /apps/modest/accounts iirc Sep 13 23:47:15 actually /apps/modest/server_accounts Sep 13 23:47:17 I must be tired for laughing at "apt-get threaten" Sep 13 23:48:23 That would be an useful thing to have every so often, though. Sep 13 23:49:00 fyi APT = "Advanced Persistent Threat" Sep 13 23:59:06 Hmm, no one has packaged gdb 7.0 or higher? Sep 14 00:05:34 derf: we (nokia) have it somewhere Sep 14 00:05:54 there was iirc rumblings about pushing it somewhere public Sep 14 00:06:03 ask eero (by mail) Sep 14 00:06:18 Probably easier to just try to build it myself. Sep 14 00:06:41 All I want to do is actually look at NEON registers. Sep 14 00:06:55 heh i also expected problems but gdb head built just fine on freebsd too Sep 14 00:07:20 (tho that was x86 not arm :) Sep 14 00:07:21 i've built gdb cross for arm Sep 14 00:07:27 it wasn't a problem Sep 14 00:07:40 gdb s wellbehaved Sep 14 00:07:46 yeah looks like Sep 14 00:07:59 Well, I want to actually run it on the device. Sep 14 00:08:03 i think i also had a cross gdb for arm once... Sep 14 00:08:07 umm Sep 14 00:08:10 isn't it there? Sep 14 00:08:26 6.8.50 is there. Sep 14 00:08:31 That's too old. Sep 14 00:08:39 yeah Sep 14 00:08:40 ah Sep 14 00:08:41 * javispedro remembers seeing gdb7 package Sep 14 00:08:54 http://chaos.troll.no/~harald/gdb7/ Sep 14 00:08:55 * lcuk looks around Sep 14 00:08:55 Where? Sep 14 00:09:04 Why newer? Sep 14 00:09:05 oh Sep 14 00:09:07 neon Sep 14 00:09:17 javispedro: Brilliant. Sep 14 00:09:21 hm.. readme says it's scratchbox, though Sep 14 00:09:25 hope it works Sep 14 00:09:28 derf, thats renamed binary to allow both versions Sep 14 00:10:01 there is a direct version around too (I built it for this purpose based on Harrys initial work) not sure though where it is Sep 14 00:10:16 lcuk: I'm not sure what you mean. Sep 14 00:10:31 derf, the version of gdb7 that javispedro just pointed out Sep 14 00:10:45 has a binary called gdb7 afaik Sep 14 00:10:49 Oh, that's fine. Sep 14 00:10:52 sure Sep 14 00:10:56 am just highlighting it Sep 14 00:11:17 theres some other minor diffs too I believe, but harry built that to get qt compatability Sep 14 00:11:21 Yeah, thanks. I probably would've scratched my head for a bit otherwise. Sep 14 00:11:23 which the old gdb didnt have Sep 14 00:13:49 Hmm, still no NEON support in that one. Sep 14 00:14:39 derf, was it in 6.8? Sep 14 00:14:58 Huh? Sep 14 00:15:06 neon support Sep 14 00:15:16 If it was in 6.8, why would I need a newer version? Sep 14 00:15:59 derf, 6.8 crashes for qt development Sep 14 00:16:11 I don't care about Qt development. Sep 14 00:16:25 good reason to get a newer one for pr1.2+1 sdk ;P Sep 14 00:16:41 pr2.1? :P Sep 14 00:16:47 2.2 even Sep 14 00:16:49 while someone's at it, kill the libsdl-ttf2.0 package for the next SDK too :) Sep 14 00:16:52 see! my brain is mashed Sep 14 00:16:58 * lcuk giggles Sep 14 00:17:10 javis: y? Sep 14 00:17:23 bug #10450 Sep 14 00:17:24 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10450 libsdl-ttf2.0 missing from device repositories Sep 14 00:17:42 cute Sep 14 00:17:53 basically a debian-incompatible package got introduced intro sdk which broke existing debian-based extras package and _all_ applications using it Sep 14 00:18:16 impressive Sep 14 00:19:33 hmm there should be an alias on that bug Sep 14 00:19:57 tbh I made an error there, shouldn't have ever suggested moving sdk package into extras Sep 14 00:20:37 should have checked for debian-guidelines-violating binary package names first :( Sep 14 00:20:58 is the internal alias syntax int-123456 on bugs.maemo.org? Sep 14 00:21:41 think so, but poke andre, I do not know about bmo organization Sep 14 00:21:57 its late for andre, doesnt really matter, but I know the internal # Sep 14 00:23:28 just search the open bugs list Sep 14 00:23:34 find some examples Sep 14 00:24:16 lcuk: note that we (council & afaik marcell) are also searching for a "escape path" with some conflicts/replaces/overwrites trickery Sep 14 00:24:41 sure Sep 14 00:25:02 i don't think you need conflicts Sep 14 00:25:10 replaces should be sufficient Sep 14 00:25:15 never trust h-a-m Sep 14 00:25:51 (also see bug report itself) Sep 14 00:27:03 i read it Sep 14 00:27:21 i didn't see anything saying replaces alone doesn't work Sep 14 00:27:58 make a foo-0 ver+1 with no files Sep 14 00:28:30 make a foo-0-0 which depends foo-0 (that ver+1) with your files Sep 14 00:28:40 note that a transaction installing such package Sep 14 00:28:57 would depend on foo-0 ver+1 and foo-0-0 while foo-0 ver is installed Sep 14 00:28:58 have people depend on foo-0-0 for your happy dependy ver Sep 14 00:29:23 and foo-0-0 is trying to overwrite foo-0 's files Sep 14 00:29:36 they are no longer foo-0 's files in foo-0 ver+1 Sep 14 00:29:39 pre-depend Sep 14 00:29:55 but I could believe h-a-m panicking there. Sep 14 00:30:10 it's easy enough to test Sep 14 00:30:16 but it's 1.30am Sep 14 00:30:21 and i'm on vacation Sep 14 00:30:30 * javispedro would prefer to kill the sdk package with fire and pretend nothing ever happened, pissing -devel users Sep 14 00:32:14 or maybe I should just push the sdl_ttf upstream to bump their version number. Sep 14 00:32:18 sounds like a good enough evil plan. Sep 14 00:32:32 (would piss sdk repo users, though >:) ) Sep 14 00:33:48 it wouldn't piss them off, they would calmy send black helicopters Sep 14 00:34:08 heh Sep 14 00:34:41 this-version-bumped-becuase-someone-tail-wagged-thw-nokia-dog Sep 14 00:35:20 :) Sep 14 00:35:28 s/uase-someone-tail-wagged-thw/ause-someone-tail-wagged-the/ Sep 14 00:35:29 timeless meant: this-version-bumped-because-someone-tail-wagged-the-nokia-dog Sep 14 00:35:44 hm. Sep 14 00:36:12 * javispedro envisions connecting meegotouch correction features with infobot's s command Sep 14 00:36:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wag_the_Dog Sep 14 00:36:50 for people who missed the reference.. Sep 14 00:37:37 (kinda) Sep 14 00:38:01 basically in this case someone scarred nokia into doing the wrong thing Sep 14 00:39:01 and the nokia dog thus ate someone's packaging homework. Sep 14 00:40:25 :) Sep 14 00:46:21 finally Sep 14 00:47:29 it's not exactly what i wanted but now I can create a connection with gconf and then send dbus disconnect and connect to that connection Sep 14 00:47:49 but i surrender fighting against wlancond/icd2 :( Sep 14 00:48:14 shadsecz: um, fmms managed.. Sep 14 00:48:33 yep, fmms is doing bassically the first part Sep 14 00:48:37 for creating the connection Sep 14 00:48:41 using gconftool Sep 14 00:49:07 or maybe other way? donno, but it does create the connection Sep 14 00:52:20 ShadSEC: great. Sep 14 00:52:33 well - somewhat great. Sep 14 00:53:00 its not the way it should be... Sep 14 00:53:09 but it works for my program though Sep 14 00:53:18 so now i can go on Sep 14 00:53:50 you know icd2 has a public API? Sep 14 00:54:02 lets see what other surprises i will have to sort :( Sep 14 00:54:37 javispedro, I could string the dbus call, but I didn't find a way to send it from commandline Sep 14 00:55:09 wlancond settings_and_connect would have been ok, but i coulnt Sep 14 00:55:30 I think we've reached the point where you should explain what you are trying to do. Sep 14 00:55:44 overview Sep 14 00:56:03 and anyway the way "should" be, just using iwconfig and stuff... now that I had to surrender it doesnt mattermuch Sep 14 00:56:35 http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal Sep 14 00:56:59 haha Sep 14 00:57:44 the goal is just an airoscript like with some addons Sep 14 00:58:01 * SpeedEvil forgets what airoscript is again. Sep 14 00:58:07 * SpeedEvil sighs. Sep 14 00:58:20 but this is just for the part of setting a connection with some gathered data Sep 14 00:58:49 airoscript is an interface to aircrack-ng Sep 14 00:58:50 is this connection temporary? Sep 14 00:59:02 or permanent until the user decides to kill it? Sep 14 00:59:19 depends on the case... both are correct :) Sep 14 00:59:45 I mean, I need to manage both options Sep 14 01:00:52 then I believe your current approach is the best one. Sep 14 01:00:52 ie. one of the options is an aid to locate an AP based on signal strenght Sep 14 01:01:11 if icd2 doesn't know anything about the connection you're setting up most apps will plainly refuse to even attemp to use it Sep 14 01:01:23 s/apps/GUI apps Sep 14 01:02:02 ShadSEC: you saw http://maemo.org/packages/view/autofreewifi/ ? Sep 14 01:02:17 for that, theres no problem because I just put the interface in monitor mode and used sniffed beacons Sep 14 01:02:31 oh really? Sep 14 01:02:48 it doesnt affect much my goal, but its interesting to know Sep 14 01:03:20 but if I have setup in gconf and instructed icd to connect it, it should know about it Sep 14 01:03:53 yes, that's why I was saying that was the best approach if your "goal" includes leaving the connection on and allowing the user to use it to for ex. browse the www Sep 14 01:04:28 it is not intended, but I guess it doesnt matter Sep 14 01:05:26 anyway it has been a great opportunity to learn a bit about how maemo does some things Sep 14 01:05:50 even if dont like some of the ways Sep 14 01:07:59 speedevil, yep, it is also easy to automate the scan/attack/crack/connect of a wep ap Sep 14 01:09:09 I'd like the ability to monitor APs signal strength and correlate against gps too. Sep 14 01:14:15 speedevil, i thought about that, and it would be great, but i won't be doing that now, too complex considering signal strenght alone is working for my purposes Sep 14 01:16:46 I only do a conversion to a scale 1 to 10, a full graph, and espeak saying the scale.. it simple and it works Sep 14 01:17:45 k Sep 14 01:29:16 the results of measuring battery life for FFmpeg's vorbis decoder with gst-av: http://felipec.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/gst-av-0-3-better-performance-for-vorbis-and-mp3/ Sep 14 01:30:29 https://datatype.helixcommunity.org/Mp3dec Sep 14 01:30:35 I keep meaning to try compiling Sep 14 01:30:44 - integer optimised mp3 decoder Sep 14 01:32:05 Interesting results Sep 14 01:32:16 I vaguely recall that wav was a little better still Sep 14 01:33:39 nice! Sep 14 01:34:03 kulve: ^ Sep 14 01:34:10 i guess on aac the picture will look quite worse though? Sep 14 01:34:35 SpeedEvil, but wav also involved much more fs io, which is the biggest bottleneck on n900 Sep 14 01:34:40 involves Sep 14 01:34:54 ShadSEC: Well... Sep 14 01:34:58 so perhaps its even better to play mp3? Sep 14 01:35:12 ShadSEC: The SD/eMMC can go at 15megabytes/s Sep 14 01:35:24 so 'CD quality' is 1% utilisation Sep 14 01:35:50 speedevil, in theory... but in my tests, it drops to under 1mb/s sometimes for unknown reasons Sep 14 01:36:08 i would really like to know WHY Sep 14 01:36:26 Swapping can be it. Sep 14 01:36:47 probably, it happens when transferring LARGE files (hundreds of mb) Sep 14 01:36:53 oh Sep 14 01:36:58 it ALWAYS happens Sep 14 01:37:03 javispedro: yes, AAC is much more complex... although there are many kinds of AAC Sep 14 01:37:03 that's just stuff not using madvise Sep 14 01:37:09 but there's only one way to know ;) Sep 14 01:37:23 :P Sep 14 01:37:26 madvise(sequential) or whatever it is Sep 14 01:37:37 to tell the kernel not to cache the file Sep 14 01:37:39 felipec, *applause* Sep 14 01:38:41 quite impressive ffmpeg beats the propietary mp3 codec. yet another blob less! Sep 14 01:43:47 javispedro: I don't think it's surprising... I've seem how the internal algorithms were developed, and how the FFmpeg community does it Sep 14 01:44:31 I was expecting a bit better performance... maybe in a few months :) Sep 14 01:46:43 javispedro, now that i remember... did you know wlancond settings_and_connect dbus call is not showing in dbus_monitor? Sep 14 01:46:54 it is. Sep 14 01:47:00 really? Sep 14 01:47:06 yes.. Sep 14 01:47:07 system bus Sep 14 01:47:13 i am pretty confident it doesnt in mine.. Sep 14 01:47:17 yeah --system Sep 14 01:47:21 args to dbus-monitor? Sep 14 01:47:21 felipec, reproducability - with these battery scripts now, its easier to tell whether a given tweak is actually giving an improvement Sep 14 01:47:32 dbus-monitor --system Sep 14 01:47:37 iirc it won't show method_calls by default Sep 14 01:47:48 :S Sep 14 01:48:09 * lcuk3 goes to bed anyway, still didnt get to play portal, damn steam still hasnt finished updating Sep 14 01:48:19 try dbus-monitor --system --type=method_call Sep 14 01:48:27 oh, anyway Sep 14 01:48:29 lcuk3: yes, actually I think I made a change in gst-av that improved the performance Sep 14 01:48:30 it wont show Sep 14 01:48:44 awesome! Sep 14 01:48:45 i did strace dbus-daemon, and it isn't seeing the call Sep 14 01:48:55 so it won't show Sep 14 01:48:55 huh??? Sep 14 01:49:01 it doesn't work that way Sep 14 01:49:09 see dbus_add_match function Sep 14 01:49:46 you're going to make me try it.. Sep 14 01:49:51 felipec, with these kind of algorithms, can you send "frames" of music data through a known number of times and check time taken Sep 14 01:49:51 well, i was desperate, thought that maybe it wasn't showing everything for a reason, and evething should go thrugh dbus-monitor, so i straced it Sep 14 01:50:01 ie, like I would do to develop a blitter Sep 14 01:50:16 and everything was showing there as with dbus-monitor, but again not wlancond requests Sep 14 01:50:24 or is the best way to get like for like basing it on drain Sep 14 01:50:51 then, with the help of speedevil it seemed it probably was using a sock instead of regular dbus Sep 14 01:51:06 no, it's using the system bus Sep 14 01:51:09 lcuk3: well, for the algorithm itself you can use time Sep 14 01:51:33 well, unless if made some big mistake in my multiple tests, it wasn't Sep 14 01:51:47 I couldnt spot it stracing wlancond or icd2 directly Sep 14 01:51:52 but not on dbus monitor Sep 14 01:52:07 lcuk3: and the algorithm is the bigger CPU consumer, but it's not the only factor: GStreamer and Pulseaudio benefit of having bigger buffers, I found out by using OProfile Sep 14 01:52:07 i could in strace i mean Sep 14 01:52:24 cool Sep 14 01:53:55 lcuk3: by running the battery script I found that the difference with gst-ffmpeg wan't as big as I expected, so I increased the buffer size even more, to 1 second, and that seemed to give a bit more performance Sep 14 01:54:37 gst-ffmpeg pushes buffers as they come, which are very small... gst-av aggregates 1 second, and then pushes Sep 14 01:55:03 but as you can see, that doesn't make _that_ much of a difference... but some :) Sep 14 01:56:32 Verizon is evil. They make random parts of the network inaccessible. Sep 14 01:56:49 Why would ANYONE disconnect www.metageek.net for example? Sep 14 01:58:03 err Sep 14 01:58:08 felipec, one observation from your blog - you explain the Y units (hours of playback) only after the second graph Sep 14 01:58:09 that's not responding here Sep 14 01:59:59 lcuk3: right... I thought it was obvious, but perhaps not (updated) Sep 14 02:00:14 Speed: Maybe Verizon is not to blame then... Sep 14 02:00:41 OMG they actually productized Windows on CE4100... Sep 14 02:01:15 Wait, it says Windows Media Center EMBEDDED, so, no miracles Sep 14 02:03:53 do you guys know of any audio player that you can script which exact portions (from 31 second to 47, then from 4:19 to 5:14, etc...) you want to play while also letting control to go off those limits using the slider or something? Sep 14 02:05:00 and yeah, i know i use to ask weird questions :P Sep 14 02:08:54 * felipec goes to sleep Sep 14 02:11:57 felipec: mplayer wavs - ~50mA Sep 14 02:15:12 AMOLED vs SuperLCD: http://www.engadget.com/photos/spot-the-difference-htc-desires-slcd-versus-amoled/ Sep 14 02:15:26 LCD actually looks like a better choice... Sep 14 02:16:58 power consumption IRL Sep 14 02:17:22 that too Sep 14 02:17:43 Also appropriate themingmay reduce power use signifcatnly on oled Sep 14 02:17:47 better blacks appear to be the only advantage of amoled, based on these photos Sep 14 02:19:05 btw, weird procedural question: who actually elects the next nokia ceo? Sep 14 02:19:21 is it done by biggest shareholders or else? Sep 14 02:19:22 It's based on karma isn't it? Sep 14 02:19:57 CEO is appointed by the board I think Sep 14 02:20:02 so sort-of Sep 14 02:21:03 blog karma Sep 14 02:21:13 heh. Sep 14 02:21:28 and who appoints the board? =) Sep 14 02:21:29 let's promote maemo.org karma until it takes over the entire company Sep 14 02:21:46 let us just make Texrat CEO and run the hell away Sep 14 02:23:02 heh Sep 14 02:23:18 at least Nokia would never have surface mounted micro USB connectors again! Sep 14 02:24:38 The board is comprised of officers of the company, and large stockholder represerntative AIUI Sep 14 02:26:12 javispedro: it would have an M5 screw running through the whole device,including the usb socket Sep 14 02:36:36 well, let's start buying Nokia stock. Sep 14 02:37:20 * SpeedEvil buys a 3310. Sep 14 02:38:09 how much does the 51% of Nokia cost? Sep 14 02:42:37 lol Sep 14 02:45:51 It would be one way to get the community council more voice. Sep 14 02:45:58 javispedro: about 5% of google. Have you got any? Sep 14 02:46:07 * javispedro looks at pockets Sep 14 02:46:16 SpeedEvil: Yea, and force them to bring back the Maemo4! Sep 14 02:46:17 'Ok - you're dropping symbian, and going opensource on _everything_'. :) Sep 14 02:46:36 * RST38h cackles evilly Sep 14 02:46:40 Though symbian on small stuff probably still makes sense Sep 14 02:47:25 * javispedro tries to find "Nokia" on businessesforsale dot com Sep 14 02:48:18 well, at least I can now be the owner of a radioshack store! Sep 14 02:48:57 Why would you want to be? Sep 14 02:49:30 to have customers to piss on! Sep 14 02:49:32 RST38h: my thought exactly Sep 14 02:50:54 javispedro: Just build yourself a 2-storied portaloo and charge for entrance **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 14 02:59:57 2010