**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 15 02:59:57 2010 Sep 15 03:00:55 would be fun to have a call going on, or perhaps some live videofrom inside Sep 15 03:02:00 the call would be ended at very moment you press the power on button on the microave Sep 15 03:02:10 in fact, the moment you put it inside Sep 15 03:02:30 if it is isolated for 2400mhz it is for anything below Sep 15 03:02:45 microwave ovens shield cellphone frequencies? Sep 15 03:02:55 it uses 2400 Sep 15 03:03:05 and it shields it very well Sep 15 03:03:11 i see Sep 15 03:03:12 so it shields any frequencies below too Sep 15 03:03:27 it also probably shields more much than 2400 Sep 15 03:03:42 YOu can do that test Sep 15 03:03:47 call your cellphone and put it inside Sep 15 03:04:10 i would be very surprised if it has signal Sep 15 03:06:09 although now that I think 900mhz has some exceptional penetration ability Sep 15 03:07:08 900mhz isn't used by cell phones here Sep 15 03:07:13 it's deregulated/free-for-all Sep 15 03:07:15 :p Sep 15 03:07:23 you guys are lucky Sep 15 03:07:27 thats the best frequency Sep 15 03:07:30 heh Sep 15 03:07:38 except we're only allowed like 5 mile radius of xmit power Sep 15 03:07:40 ☹ Sep 15 03:07:45 I have some ricochet modems... that's range and penetration Sep 15 03:07:53 they use 900mhz Sep 15 03:08:28 ah, problem solved, upgrade to the newer MM10. Sep 15 03:08:30 also they use 1WATT, ferquency hopping, Sep 15 03:13:54 crap heard a pop and my eeepc power brick is dead not even a blinking light Sep 15 03:14:25 did you microwave it? Sep 15 03:14:42 nope Sep 15 03:14:54 plugged it ti the unit Sep 15 03:15:35 was it set to 110v and plugged in a 220v wallsocket? Sep 15 03:15:43 i geuss this is happining on a mass scale them dieing Sep 15 03:16:15 it auto chooses but its all 110 here Sep 15 03:17:45 any power oscilations or spikes latelly? Sep 15 03:18:32 also, was it plugged togther with a bunch of other things in the same wallsocket? Sep 15 03:18:44 im going back to bed my 770 no enough hdd to update bad njght Sep 15 03:18:57 :( Sep 15 03:19:16 nothing to cause it the light came on plugged it to eee and pop Sep 15 03:19:25 :( Sep 15 03:19:41 perhaps it was a bug, in the original sense Sep 15 03:19:49 goet ahold of asus in morn rma it Sep 15 03:20:01 good luck Sep 15 03:20:24 ive read alot of rma.s of the brick on google Sep 15 03:20:35 oh Sep 15 03:21:37 geuss im getting an igo unervsrsal brick Sep 15 03:21:55 till asus can get to it Sep 15 03:23:30 tiago any ideas on a bt kb not working anymore with the n900? Sep 15 03:24:22 i'm having bt issues with my N900 too, not the same thing nut also with bt, i dunno how to solve Sep 15 03:25:10 what you having issues with everythimg else bt works here Sep 15 03:26:47 OVI suite isn't seeing the N900 (but sees my N73), and sometmes, specially when my bt headset is connected, it won't find many devices it finds when the headset isn't connected Sep 15 03:28:08 havent played with a headset yet... Sep 15 03:29:09 disconect any bt device from it and try again going straight to th e keyboard Sep 15 03:29:37 but i got it hooked to eee as modem bt and to gps reciever at the same time wi no issue Sep 15 03:29:38 btw, doesn't the N900 nned you to install somthing to work with HID devices? Sep 15 03:30:35 i thought it was all bt outta the box unless something changedd with the update Sep 15 03:30:46 it used to work Sep 15 03:31:38 dunno then Sep 15 03:33:02 and i dont think this one is hid but could be a module/ kernel thing Sep 15 03:33:14 if it is Sep 15 03:36:05 jrite now using the bt kb on the 770 bt through the 900 Sep 15 03:36:18 the eee is dead Sep 15 03:36:37 this is lkilling me Sep 15 03:38:45 * pupnik watches Sep 15 03:48:55 DangerMaus_, the PS killed the eee itself? Sep 15 04:00:57 signal strenght drops from quality 100 and rssi -81 outside the microwave to quality 60 rssi -92 inside :) Sep 15 04:01:23 and wifi is completely killed Sep 15 04:01:36 just another absurd test Sep 15 04:01:55 lol Sep 15 04:02:03 "wifi is completely killed" ha! you better hope so Sep 15 04:02:17 otherwise your microwave would cook you while you stood there Sep 15 04:02:56 I was suppossed to check the values from remote ssh Sep 15 04:03:06 not surprisingly that wasnt possible :P Sep 15 04:03:16 bluetooth aslo goes away, no? Sep 15 04:03:29 of course Sep 15 04:03:35 again "it better" :) Sep 15 04:03:58 but see how gsm is not COMPLETELY killed Sep 15 04:04:06 no surprise Sep 15 04:04:17 probably not usable for phone call though Sep 15 04:04:18 what band are you using? Sep 15 04:04:29 but maybe an sms might come trough Sep 15 04:04:34 try calling with the door shut and see if it rings? Sep 15 04:04:39 2g in this test Sep 15 04:04:45 well, he's not using 2.4GHz :) Sep 15 04:04:53 heh Sep 15 04:05:01 i dont have another phone heer Sep 15 04:05:06 2g uses lots of bands across the world Sep 15 04:05:06 why dont you try? :) Sep 15 04:05:19 probably 1.900 i dnt know Sep 15 04:05:32 i don't think i can make an international call without paying, dunno Sep 15 04:05:43 our prividers uses several different ranges of frequency Sep 15 04:06:01 i mean you put your phone in your microwave and call it with another phone you might have there Sep 15 04:06:15 over here each carrier uses one or two bands alone Sep 15 04:06:17 ah Sep 15 04:06:45 people are sleeping right now, i!l try to remember running this test tomorrow Sep 15 04:07:02 2G and 3G require each provider to have independent bands, correct? Sep 15 04:07:07 is that a 4G limitation too? Sep 15 04:07:13 really? Sep 15 04:07:18 i donno Sep 15 04:07:26 luke-jr, define "independent bands" Sep 15 04:07:37 i thought they could all work togther if bureucracy wasn't in the way Sep 15 04:07:58 johnxx: eg, ProviderA and ProviderB can't both have towers using the same 900 MHz band in teh same area? Sep 15 04:08:18 the network might need some buffing up to handl the traffic squeezed in a single band though Sep 15 04:08:31 but i' no expert Sep 15 04:08:57 luke-jr, huh. I hadn't thought of that, but uhm, I can't see how that would work in the EU, where there are 2 2G bands and n providers where n>2 Sep 15 04:10:13 hmm Sep 15 04:10:23 they all have independent towers? Sep 15 04:10:32 or maybe they all share? Sep 15 04:11:04 this page is very interesting : https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?CSD%20services&id=1106&type=g Sep 15 04:11:15 luke-jr, sooo, I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you cite your source? Sep 15 04:11:21 they share Sep 15 04:11:31 share the bands, and even the towers Sep 15 04:11:54 thus i donno what band I a connected to right now Sep 15 04:12:27 somthing annoying over here is there is one carrier that stuck with an old techlogy for sometime while thwe others moved to GSM, then when that carrier finally moved to GSM the bansds commonly used by GSM had all been bought already, so gsm devices had to be made specfificly for their band, and with that they managed to have devices they sell be locked to ythe carrier while technicly having no lock in place Sep 15 04:13:09 hehe Sep 15 04:13:43 com.nokia.phone.SIM <- this one in particular soudns VERY interesting Sep 15 04:13:50 TiagoTiago, we have 4 major carriers here, and essentially they're all incompatible with each other in terms of phones (2 can share 2G phones) Sep 15 04:17:06 this whole mess is really annying, what's the point of being abl e to slip your sim in another device, or change the sim of your device, if each carrier is imcompatible with the other? Sep 15 04:18:08 it only works as intended if you got a multiband device with the right bands Sep 15 04:19:17 the point is that carriers are motivated by keeping customers, so it's in their best interest to make moving to another carrier difficult Sep 15 04:19:22 it's the free market at work :D Sep 15 04:20:18 that's actually them twisting the market to make it less free Sep 15 04:20:49 and *that* depends on who you ask :) Sep 15 04:21:47 if they are all bad just the same and work to keep that as the statusquo, the consumer gets screwed Sep 15 04:22:13 * DangerMaus_ shoots palm hid bt kb... what got borked with that last os uoppdate? Sep 15 04:22:58 johnxx, no, that's a heavily regulated market at work. ;) Sep 15 04:23:30 IMO there are many situations where if comapnies stopped being selfish assholes they would attract lots more customers, so much that they would profit even more than now even if profit margins got reduced Sep 15 04:23:31 There's very little to do with the free market about the telecommunications industry. Sep 15 04:23:41 DangerMaus_, what update? Sep 15 04:23:52 GAN900, carrier lock-in is a result of regulation? Sep 15 04:24:32 johnxx, the make-up of the telecommunications industry is partially a product of government interference in the market. Sep 15 04:24:42 long time ago Sep 15 04:24:50 Look at the regulations and taxes involved. Sep 15 04:25:22 Can anybody AFFORD to compete with companies like AT&T and Verizon with that overhead? Sep 15 04:25:44 when i orrigionaly got the 900 last thanksgiving the bt kb worked after the update im thinking it didnt Sep 15 04:25:52 GAN900, not after the US lets them merge into behemoths and doesn't make any provisions for interoperability Sep 15 04:26:09 It's the worst of both worlds, too regulated to allow real competition, not regulated enough to keep them in line. Sep 15 04:26:19 I'll agree to that Sep 15 04:26:38 johnxx, this is not a valid argument against free market capitalism, however. :) Sep 15 04:27:16 GAN900: a duopolly is an argument that it's not a free market nor capitalist Sep 15 04:28:14 GAN900, we need a bit of regulation to make sure that we have enough players in the game to get any benefit though Sep 15 04:29:07 johnxx, given the lack of real data on true free markets, I don't know that you can assert that. Sep 15 04:29:30 Natural monopolies are one of the weird areas in free market systems, though. Sep 15 04:29:58 The problem is that finding a good balance on regulations is basically impossible. Sep 15 04:30:20 which is why we should give up and just let the companies run things! yay! Sep 15 04:30:20 Since mostly it results in the worst of both. Sep 15 04:30:31 bullshit Sep 15 04:30:38 rebooted :( Sep 15 04:31:09 johnxx, right, that's not a statement likely to lead to productive discussion. Sep 15 04:31:12 So goodnight. Sep 15 04:31:30 GAN900, then we need to experiment more. lots of impossible things have been become commonplace to keep experimenting Sep 15 04:32:23 GAN900, sorry. didn't mean to troll. Just a bit of sarcasm meant to draw out a counter-proposal Sep 15 04:33:41 brb Sep 15 04:36:09 back Sep 15 04:40:05 why worry about a free market? Sep 15 04:40:14 what does that accomplish? Sep 15 04:41:13 free market can go good, but it also can kinda selfdestruct Sep 15 04:42:44 usually it goes bad when people are selfish assholes, stubborn or simply stupid Sep 15 04:43:39 there is still lots to be fixed in mankind Sep 15 04:44:55 people are naturally selfish, stubborn, and stupid Sep 15 04:45:01 sounds like a broken-by-design system Sep 15 04:45:06 heh Sep 15 04:46:19 i dunno if itms somthing with the culture or genes or a mix, but indeed humans often are like that Sep 15 04:47:53 like with democracy, it would work with ideal people, but with real people there is lots that can go wrong, and yet ther isn't anything better we can choose Sep 15 04:48:50 it's the fallen nature of man after eating the stupid fig Sep 15 04:49:17 with ideal people, anarchy would work. or socialism. or anything really. Sep 15 04:49:40 and only a fool would choose democracy. with man's nature, democracy is the *worst* possible system Sep 15 04:49:47 it quickly becomes tyranny Sep 15 04:50:16 monarchy is the best choice IMO Sep 15 04:50:19 IMO it's more dangerous to give power to a random few than to the masses Sep 15 04:51:24 masses have a 100% certainty to be imperfect. Sep 15 04:51:34 a single leader has the best probability to lead well Sep 15 04:52:55 there are way more people that if given absolute power would fuck things royally than those that would do a reasonable job, masses are stupid, but usually at their worst they are still above than what things could be if only one or a little few random people were n power Sep 15 04:54:47 democracy kinda balances the power of the masses with the power of a few, at least in theory; it lets a fewbe in poewer but at the same time has the masses as abackup ifn case those in power mess up Sep 15 04:55:16 that's why you make sure the Monarch is qualified :P Sep 15 04:55:54 a meritocratic monarchy? Sep 15 04:55:59 sure Sep 15 04:56:15 and the Monarch can judge his own successor, as Monarch :p Sep 15 04:56:24 only goes wrong if the Monarch is tricked, or becomes corrupt Sep 15 04:56:56 next step is to divide the nations into tiny pieces, and give them each autonomy Sep 15 04:56:58 it would still be good to have a way to cut the process in case the choice for monarch was mistaken Sep 15 04:57:05 then when one screws up, it's not the end of the world :p Sep 15 04:57:30 if a monarch becomes corrupt, the neighboring monarchies declare war Sep 15 04:57:32 ☺ Sep 15 04:58:01 and how is that better than the people impeaching the monarch? Sep 15 04:58:08 that's rebellion Sep 15 04:58:17 which is immoral Sep 15 04:58:28 not if itms somthing institutionalized etc Sep 15 04:58:30 people have no right to judge their ruler Sep 15 04:58:42 then you effectively have a slow democracy Sep 15 04:58:46 absolute power corrupts absolutly Sep 15 04:58:52 because the ruler needs to appease the masses Sep 15 04:59:17 rebellion isn't the only limit to power Sep 15 04:59:25 disobedience to evil commands is legitimate Sep 15 04:59:50 and all nations are of course subject to the Church's higher authority Sep 15 04:59:55 interesting, the contacts app on the n900 crashes everytime whenever i press a key when choosing the region/country. Sep 15 05:00:15 but who is to judge what is and what isn't an evil command? Sep 15 05:00:22 church?! Sep 15 05:00:33 they also are severelly messed up Sep 15 05:00:33 or in fact, it crashes if i select any country from the list. Sep 15 05:00:40 TiagoTiago: the Church teaches morality, of course, and the local bishops are a good place to apply it Sep 15 05:00:47 the Church is infallible. Sep 15 05:01:00 slonopotamus: welcome to politics 101 Sep 15 05:01:09 aye Sep 15 05:01:23 only an ideal church, that, like ideal people, is most improbable Sep 15 05:01:46 ; that, like ideal people* Sep 15 05:01:50 trying to decide if it worse than physics discussion on #meego :) Sep 15 05:01:56 lol Sep 15 05:01:58 but the ideal Church exists, so why not use it? :P Sep 15 05:02:17 it does not, at least as far as i know Sep 15 05:02:37 oh well, perhaps it's time to learn. but this isn't the place to get into that. Sep 15 05:02:55 the church can only be as close to ideal as the people running it Sep 15 05:03:00 there's always ##Catholic if you're interested Sep 15 05:03:04 lol Sep 15 05:03:12 which is why the Church can only be ideal when that person at the top is Divine Sep 15 05:04:02 books that have been writtwn, rewritten and translated by less than ideal people cannot represent the original ideal message Sep 15 05:04:15 who said anything about books? Sep 15 05:04:44 even worese fopr word of mouth traditions Sep 15 05:05:05 again, you're assuming a fallible Church Sep 15 05:06:07 an infallible church would only be possible with infallible people Sep 15 05:06:42 this channel is uncomprehensible (i hope i spelled it correctly) without morning cup of coffee Sep 15 05:07:18 TiagoTiago: the Church has an infallible Head, and infallible guidance Sep 15 05:07:29 it cannot teach error in faith or morals Sep 15 05:08:22 if that god really existed and really had our wellbeing in mind, it would have made many butterfly flap their wings ain the other side of the world and make a chain reaction of good things hapepen without interfeering with anyone's freewill Sep 15 05:09:11 no freewill interference required ☺ Sep 15 05:09:44 a church can't work like Stephen Hawking, if the body is diseased it won't matter what the head up top is thinking Sep 15 05:10:22 TiagoTiago: even if you can't understand how, it does work. :P Sep 15 05:11:58 i can see it doesn't, the shit against gays, against women, against good healthy science, the deviled priest raping and just being swept to under the rug etc Sep 15 05:12:33 sure at some points in hystory it was worse, but today itms still far from ideal Sep 15 05:12:37 your disagreements with truth hold no grounds, nor does the slander of the mass media when put to scruteny Sep 15 05:13:28 what truth? all there is is hearsay, some say someone they knew had a cousin that heard god say somthing Sep 15 05:13:32 certainly not going to elaborate on that in here Sep 15 05:15:31 i'm far more inclined into believing in gray aliens and extradimensional dragons reincarnated than in shit from the vatican and wherver the other "mainstream" religions go to pull stuff out of their ass Sep 15 05:15:31 if you honestly want to discuss it, there's ##Catholic or PM Sep 15 05:16:00 the Church doesn't quite qualify as "mainstream" anymore, but whatever Sep 15 05:17:40 if you want DCC Chat, you'll need to configure your IRC client to send a WAN IP Sep 15 05:17:51 hm Sep 15 05:18:10 (if I try to initiate it, I'll probably send an IPv6 address…) Sep 15 05:18:30 the other alternative is to go to that channel and have @bunch of people be agaiinst my point of view? Sep 15 05:19:42 it's idle at the moment, but the purpose would be to explain why your objections are wrong. if someone else wakes up, that can hardly hurt. :p Sep 15 05:20:26 a mob of people blinded by faith wouldn't be a pleasent chat partner Sep 15 05:21:06 faith isn't blinding. Sep 15 05:21:18 there's always normal IRC PM too Sep 15 05:21:20 shrug Sep 15 05:21:29 not to everyone Sep 15 05:21:40 how do i do that with xchat? Sep 15 05:22:49 not sure, it might be labelled 'Query' Sep 15 05:22:51 is it possible to install a package using commandline from a non enabled repository without hacing to enable? Sep 15 05:23:34 ie: apt-get install screen from the tools repository without having it setup Sep 15 05:27:29 is wget installed in default PR1.2? Sep 15 05:32:21 does picking a region/country for an address in the contacts on the n900 work for anyone? Sep 15 05:52:56 Any idea why it says that the tools repository is meant to be used only from the SDK environment? What harm could screen package do? Sep 15 05:58:00 I don't know how good screen will run, but I think the main problems is, that the tool repo isn't optified, so you could brick you device by filling up rootfs Sep 15 06:03:54 i see Sep 15 06:06:34 hmm, the n900 seems to take much longer to get gps signal and fixes if there's no sim in it... Sep 15 06:11:41 or if someone tells me it's a red herring... Sep 15 06:12:06 pigeon: AGPS is pretty much needed. it just takes very long time without Sep 15 06:12:48 is AGPS == "network positioning" in the settings? Sep 15 06:12:54 yeah when my gps worked i am guessing WIND finally unblocked the damn port Sep 15 06:12:55 or doesn't work at all, like mine does Sep 15 06:19:13 Stskeeps: especially since it doesn't seem to remember previous position/ephemeris, so it restarts from where it can, usually the middle of the country you're in if cell is on Sep 15 06:19:23 Corsac: :nod: Sep 15 06:33:27 hehe, no MeeGo on Nokia World. Sep 15 06:33:46 only rotting symbian Sep 15 06:33:57 rmrfchik, yeah. It would really steal the thunder of the Meego conference Sep 15 06:34:28 rmrfchik, but you heard the good news about the Palm designer guy getting picked up for Meego UX, right? Sep 15 06:35:23 nope Sep 15 06:35:43 I lost hope in Nokia, so don't track meego Sep 15 06:35:54 what about that tablet running meego i saw on the news at some conference? Sep 15 06:36:02 what palm guy? from the original palm? Sep 15 06:36:30 TiagoTiago: hmm, 9:33AM "We will not make any MeeGo product launches today. More on that before the year is out. Sep 15 06:38:10 http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/nokia-hires-peter-skillman-former-palm-design-vp-as-meego-user/ Sep 15 06:38:33 I think it wasn't a Nokia Sep 15 06:38:34 actually, engadget has the important part of the story in the link itself. no real need to click. heh Sep 15 06:39:08 TiagoTiago, if it's a tablet, it's likely intel related Sep 15 06:39:28 rmrfchik, honestly, this is one case where intel being involved in a project gives me some amount of home Sep 15 06:39:32 s/home/hope/ Sep 15 06:39:32 johnx meant: rmrfchik, honestly, this is one case where intel being involved in a project gives me some amount of hope Sep 15 06:39:51 I think i saw it on either CNN or BBC, it was in a place with lots of 3d TVs Sep 15 06:40:12 johnx: yes, I eager to see not nokia's device. Sep 15 07:00:14 i guess i'll be going, cya Sep 15 07:09:37 johnx: according to profile on LinkedIn, Peter Skillman was in Handspring (when devices uses original Palm interface), and was in Palm since Jan 2007, when no any advance in GUi was evolved. Sep 15 07:10:09 May be he is a good guy, but seems like he has no relation with palm success in GUI/PIM. Sep 15 07:10:49 rmrfchik: wasn't the palm pre UI in full swing around 2007? Sep 15 07:11:04 (unrelated: handspring rawked!) Sep 15 07:11:46 johnx: ahh.. new palm devices has no any relation with original palm spirit. Sep 15 07:12:44 if meego ended up looking a lot like the palm pre UI, that would be a very, very good thing Sep 15 07:12:50 I read about how Palm UI was born. The guy behind it was creating USER interface. Current ui designers are crearing GRAPHIC interface Sep 15 07:12:55 feel the difference Sep 15 07:13:00 also, in case you forgot, handspring basically invented the smart phone ;P Sep 15 07:13:18 feel the difference? it feels a lot like not using a stylus :P Sep 15 07:13:41 and my wife is crying about it -- how she will draw her designs now? Sep 15 07:14:37 johnx, as long as the hardware doesn't look like the pre. Sep 15 07:14:41 and, despite stylis, original palm's gui and concept was very, very friendly. can't say this about any modern gui Sep 15 07:15:07 there have been big leaps forward since the PalmOS days (and a ton of missteps) Sep 15 07:15:38 throwing out all the new stuff would be a huge mistake, IMHO Sep 15 07:16:02 one huge misstep I see -- no any modern device with gigafuckingherz can pop me up contacts/calendar/notes instantly Sep 15 07:16:35 your palm never crashed on you and ate all your contacts, huh? Sep 15 07:17:01 also related: you didn't develop for palm, did you? Sep 15 07:17:16 i did Sep 15 07:17:23 how was that? Sep 15 07:17:28 and was happy not to deal with files. Sep 15 07:17:34 it was nice Sep 15 07:18:55 huh. RST38h painted a very different picture of it, IIRC Sep 15 07:19:19 johnx: palm crashed, it happened, but thanks to god it is VERY VERY hard to lost your data. Sep 15 07:19:29 very smart backup system Sep 15 07:19:51 as long as you synced all the time ... Sep 15 07:20:23 I'm happy with my phone being a stand-alone device, that I can use away from a computer for extended periods Sep 15 07:20:32 I managed to have backup on SD card. In fact, two of backups -- weekly and daily Sep 15 07:20:53 * johnx had a handspring without an SD slot Sep 15 07:21:04 I was actually saving up for the MP3 module when it died Sep 15 07:21:10 so, any device without syncing can lose your data Sep 15 07:21:11 I bought a Zaurus and never looked back Sep 15 07:21:15 isn't'? Sep 15 07:21:29 devices that *keep your data in RAM* have a much better chance Sep 15 07:21:33 I used Zaurus (and even hacked a little) for a year. Sep 15 07:21:34 of losing it entirely Sep 15 07:22:40 look, I'm not arguing that the palm didn't have some very desirable traits Sep 15 07:23:08 in a lot of ways, I'd like to see us taking the UI as an example of "as simple as possible, but no simpler" Sep 15 07:24:20 the point is not only in simple UI. it is about speed, handy, intuitness. Sep 15 07:24:27 (can't speel last word) Sep 15 07:25:15 those are definitely good traits, but if the device doesn't do what you want, they're useless Sep 15 07:26:27 yes, and was taking notes, uses ToDos and other PIM work on palm. And don't do this on any later device I had: acer n310 (wince), zaurus, n810, n900. Sep 15 07:27:13 all those devices can only be used as bookreader, simple game console. Sep 15 07:27:34 I keep a ton of notes on the N900 in tomboy Sep 15 07:27:51 n900+emacs+org-mode ftw, no?-) Sep 15 07:27:54 I sync them back and forth, wirelessly to my desktops Sep 15 07:28:18 I'm waiting for someone to compile Darcs for n900 to do that syncing part.. Sep 15 07:28:18 flux: i'm vim guy ;) Sep 15 07:28:33 rmrfchik, you know, some people have converted to emacs just to use org-mode ;-) Sep 15 07:28:34 johnx: how tomboy get synced? Sep 15 07:28:35 and yes, sometimes I miss the the Palm Notes UI, but I don't miss the HWR Sep 15 07:29:08 * johnx looks at his sync config Sep 15 07:29:12 I think I sync it to ubuntu one Sep 15 07:29:41 yeah Sep 15 07:30:39 I sync the PIM stuff to my Mac over bluetooth. I really wish it could sync to CalDAV/CardDAV though Sep 15 07:33:29 johnx: I have idiosyncrasy to .net and mono. tomboy is .net, isn't? Sep 15 07:34:29 connboy on the N900 is vala Sep 15 07:34:36 or is it conboy? Sep 15 07:34:50 but yeah, tomboy on the desktop is .net Sep 15 07:35:02 and it's your loss. but it's no less free than PalmOS was ... Sep 15 07:36:59 it's not about free, it's about hygiene Sep 15 07:37:11 avoiding patents? Sep 15 07:37:20 avoiding MS trap Sep 15 07:37:56 I don't think either of us will manage to convince the other, so let's agree to disagree Sep 15 07:38:01 heard last news from russia -- MS advoicates was used to sue dissent. Sep 15 07:38:16 did you see the followup? Sep 15 07:38:22 microsoft giving NGOs free licenses Sep 15 07:38:27 I saw Sep 15 07:38:30 and it wasn't MS advocates Sep 15 07:39:02 I read, MS people WERE on place when it all happened Sep 15 07:39:22 the saw what happens, the saw all license was fine and didn't do anything Sep 15 07:40:06 site? Sep 15 07:40:35 aev> yeah I remember in the mid 90s there was so much hope that Russia and the U.S. would be friends Sep 15 07:40:56 ev> and that the cold war was over Sep 15 07:41:15 boy that was short lived Sep 15 07:41:34 hello? Sep 15 07:41:39 ? Sep 15 07:51:52 has someone used n900 usb port for communicating with an external device via non-usb-means? possibly flipping power lines or something? Sep 15 07:52:12 I'm wondering what kind of speeds would such approach give.. Sep 15 07:52:28 (as in a few bps or possibly even a few kbps :-)) Sep 15 07:54:42 few bps at most Sep 15 07:54:48 10bps maybe Sep 15 07:58:31 Khertan, ping Sep 15 08:01:27 jacekowski, oh well. possibly could be useful for some launcher, if even that :) Sep 15 08:28:49 hehehe Sep 15 08:29:26 moaning Sep 15 08:29:49 I just messed with some people by having their voicemail say you-have.wav + digit_echo(random()) + new-message-plural.wav Sep 15 08:30:07 * crashanddie takes off evil hat. Sep 15 08:31:55 crashanddie: aaw, it was a nice hat Sep 15 08:34:16 actualy I see this often, when people move their flat here and get new landline, with t-mo voicebox - though they have their own TAM :-P Sep 15 08:35:10 t-mo voicebox has annoying habit to cal every hour : "you have 5 new messages" - TAM: "... thank you for calling" Sep 15 08:36:59 error description: "My TAM is weird, it talks to itself, leaving messages about messages" X-P Sep 15 08:41:17 http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1787448&cid=33584186 Sep 15 08:44:56 crashanddie: ugh. phone systems. ugh. Sep 15 08:45:37 eeerm Sep 15 08:49:17 what a BS Sep 15 08:51:06 ""...for enabling the camera function of the screens 4th pixels you snap on a hood with a lens on top"" Sep 15 08:51:52 DocScrutinizer: having fun with google translate? Sep 15 08:52:46 not really, just trying to figure how senors in a 'LCD' type screen can make for a camera function Sep 15 08:53:38 Mo9ring, all Sep 15 08:54:01 ...or has Polaroid developed a new photofilm that just needs to be held to the scene to pick up? without any camera around it? Sep 15 08:55:00 and M$ has copied this to their thin-as-shit-o-glass 'surface' device Sep 15 08:57:04 hmm, for the full sized surface I think I remember something about IR sensors behind the screen or something to that effect? Sep 15 08:57:20 they had IR projectors all over the place Sep 15 08:57:34 and 4 (at least) cameras to locate the objects Sep 15 08:57:53 the screen was coated with an IR absorbant Sep 15 08:58:12 so that the cameras could detect the edges of the objects, and submit that edge-detection to the display Sep 15 08:59:01 jaffa arent you at Nokia World? Sep 15 08:59:02 for some reason I thought I remembered them reading 'game cards' or something with patterns on them Sep 15 08:59:23 might have been a different tabletop demo thing than surface though ... Sep 15 09:00:59 DocScrutinizer, quad pels on the lcd Sep 15 09:01:05 lcuk2: Yupl Had breakfast with Ari. Seen Ronan Mac Laverty, thp and Ville Vainio's supposed to be around Sep 15 09:01:20 quad pels? Sep 15 09:02:49 cool jaffa, did you find yourself an n8 yet Sep 15 09:02:56 DocScrutinizer, RGB and input Sep 15 09:03:10 johnx: see, you can't use IR sensors spread over any area for anything except contact scanning, as you can't take a picture of a scene by waving with the polaroid film Sep 15 09:03:26 lcuk2: ^^^ to you as well Sep 15 09:03:52 to call such thing 'camera' is mere BS Sep 15 09:03:53 DocScrutinizer: yeah. I get the concept. Hence why I qualified what I was saying. I don't know *how* they do it *shrugs* Sep 15 09:05:23 for taking a picture you'll need a lens or aperture, or lasers and holography Sep 15 09:05:59 none of all that is applicable to sensors in a display of whatever technology Sep 15 09:07:18 that's as silly as telling "your TV takes snapshots of you, via the screen, and sends them back to the TV-station" Sep 15 09:07:39 DocScrutinizer: I used to be terrified that it did when I was little Sep 15 09:08:11 yeah, and this M$ announcement is for little boys Sep 15 09:08:14 someone told me about the concept of "TV ratings" but didn't bother to tell me how the TV stations knew Sep 15 09:09:57 anyone remember those boxes that you held up against your TV monitor, in a specific area? Sep 15 09:10:11 And it would allow you to "play"? The box had like a couple of input buttons Sep 15 09:11:17 lcuk2: Going to look for one later. Qt Mobility, Qt Creator and Symbian, MeeGo and Maemo Hermes, I'm tginking. Sep 15 09:11:17 barcode type "morse" via TV? old boring nonsense Sep 15 09:11:20 N8 is *nice* harddware Sep 15 09:11:30 DocScrutinizer: yeah, something like that Sep 15 09:11:35 DocScrutinizer: so yeah, the cameras in surface appear to actually be cameras Sep 15 09:11:45 Jaffa: and not even armv7 afaik.. Sep 15 09:12:12 Jaffa: are you saying it's nice because Pamela Anderson (the old cow) has decided to star in a movie filmed by it? Sep 15 09:12:14 Stskeeps: Really? It's fast. Sep 15 09:12:24 Jaffa: broadcom gfx chip is bloody capable Sep 15 09:12:26 jaffa dont fall into that trap Sep 15 09:12:31 the n810 is fast Sep 15 09:12:38 Jaffa: have heard rumours it's better than SGX Sep 15 09:12:40 crashanddie: No. It's nice despite such tacky T&A tactics Sep 15 09:12:48 it just has to spend a long time drawing its huge screen Sep 15 09:13:05 the N8 has LOWER RESOLUTION display which allows a lesser cpu to look slick Sep 15 09:13:07 hint hint Sep 15 09:13:15 lcuk2: and it has to spend even more time going through 18 different layers of software abstraction to reach the screen in the first place. Sep 15 09:13:16 its 640*360 Sep 15 09:13:18 lcuk2: Sure - but I'm a user too and I care about UI responsiveness. Sep 15 09:13:25 yes Sep 15 09:13:32 Virtual keyboard's not as nice as N900, of course Sep 15 09:13:38 so do that on n900 Sep 15 09:13:44 with meego Sep 15 09:13:52 Jaffa: virtual keyboard as good as Opera's VK? Sep 15 09:14:00 and see how it works Sep 15 09:14:26 What is the default browser of MeeGo? Sep 15 09:14:35 FIQ|n900: internet explorer Sep 15 09:14:36 microB, fennec, opera, what? :P Sep 15 09:14:41 yeah, right Sep 15 09:14:52 but, what is it? Sep 15 09:15:07 "Blackberry Hotspot Browser" Sep 15 09:15:08 johnx: ( crashanddie: SpeedEvil: ) correct me when I'm wrong, but when you use just one sensor behind a lens of a certain aperture size, this won't improve the quality loss from small aperture, when compared to using same apperture size lens with a multi-pixel-sensor? Sep 15 09:15:14 only allows connections through Wifi Sep 15 09:15:25 FIQ|n900: there's fennec on the current meego Sep 15 09:15:31 Ah, ok Sep 15 09:15:33 @ mece Sep 15 09:15:55 DocScrutinizer: there's quality loss related to aperture size? Sep 15 09:16:00 that's news to me. Sep 15 09:16:09 Nokias meego/harmattan browser is supposed to be webkit based. Sep 15 09:16:27 DocScrutinizer: honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about and/or getting at Sep 15 09:16:30 so even while "surface" might have a lens in front of each of 600k one-pixel sensors, the overall performance still is that of a cam with an aperture of one pixel size Sep 15 09:16:43 crashanddie: sure, you need exposure like mad Sep 15 09:16:46 mece: where did you hear that? Sep 15 09:16:50 DocScrutinizer: go read wikipedia Sep 15 09:17:01 it has a rear-projection screen, IR emitters and IR cameras Sep 15 09:17:01 hm, speaking of fennec; anyone that has the nightly fennec build working on os2008? (n810) Sep 15 09:17:12 DocScrutinizer: oh, explained like that: yes Sep 15 09:17:15 lcuk2: You miss my point. I don't care from a product pov. If the device & OS can't properly drive itself... Sep 15 09:17:17 it says it's missing libc 3.4.9 here (iirc) Sep 15 09:17:18 DocScrutinizer: but that's not what they care about Sep 15 09:17:31 jaffa my hint was actually towards stskeeps Sep 15 09:17:39 not you ;) Sep 15 09:18:07 DocScrutinizer: if you have an aperture of one px, you can probably detect if it's obstructed or not, and then *maybe* an rgb value Sep 15 09:18:14 not much more than that Sep 15 09:18:20 yesyes Sep 15 09:18:29 I'd not call that a CAMERA Sep 15 09:18:32 nope Sep 15 09:18:46 Robot101, I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure that was the case. Sep 15 09:18:48 DocScrutinizer: plus, you'd have to see what the focus point is Sep 15 09:19:00 lol, that let aside, yes Sep 15 09:19:29 DocScrutinizer: a pinhole camera will give you a pretty nice image of the sun when the image is projected at about a meter Sep 15 09:19:41 I know Sep 15 09:20:07 DocScrutinizer: use the same pinhole with a sensor plane at less than a cm from the aperture plane, and you get an insanely bright spot that is either completely washed out or black. Sep 15 09:21:00 just stick a webcam on the darn thing and be done with it Sep 15 09:21:17 binoculars focussed on a mirror bouncing off to a wall can also project an image of the sun - you can see sunspots and eclipses Sep 15 09:21:27 just ignore that M$ BS hoax Sep 15 09:22:02 don't they also regularly announce "really usable OS"? Sep 15 09:22:30 DocScrutinizer: you mean that they can make a thinner Surface, or that the current one actually exists? Sep 15 09:22:52 wouldn't suprise me at all Sep 15 09:23:00 @ DocScrutinizer Sep 15 09:23:46 what wouldn't surprise you? If M$ had announced another vaporware that never is to come? Sep 15 09:24:13 is objdump available on the n900? Sep 15 09:24:41 jaffa so you are rewriting hermes as a native app? Sep 15 09:25:26 or just if some bizz droid in M$ hasn't understood what optical touchpad is all about, and made up some BS about 'cameras in surface' Sep 15 09:25:39 DocScrutinizer: yeah. and the fact that it would make "really usable OS" Sep 15 09:25:49 crashanddie, yes, objdump is available Sep 15 09:25:51 DocScrutinizer: I still can't tell if you're talking about the current version or some future version ... Sep 15 09:25:54 hmm Sep 15 09:25:56 crashanddie, there is binutils. Shouldn't it be part ofd that? Sep 15 09:26:00 I really don't want to setup scratchbox Sep 15 09:26:36 thanks mece Sep 15 09:26:58 I'm talking about the article crashanddie linked to (well actually he linked to a comment on that article) Sep 15 09:27:40 "" thin as a sheet of glass, with cameras built into the display"" Sep 15 09:28:26 ah, got it Sep 15 09:28:31 * johnx didn't RTFS Sep 15 09:28:32 I'd be *surprised* if this were about an already existing device Sep 15 09:28:49 as such device never will exist Sep 15 09:28:59 meh. it's marketing speak Sep 15 09:28:59 (the next 10 or 15 years) Sep 15 09:29:15 or next 1500 years Sep 15 09:29:23 there is a current version of surface that is quite real, but it involves a rear-projected display, ir emitters and ir cameras Sep 15 09:29:49 it's almost exactly the size of one of those cocktail-style arcade cabinets Sep 15 09:30:11 costs $12,500 Sep 15 09:31:10 ooh, an interactive table? Sep 15 09:31:35 meh, I don't care, please don't answer Sep 15 09:31:40 * peb__ is gone. Gone since Tue Sep 7 15:18:00 2010 Sep 15 09:32:08 peb__: we don't care Sep 15 09:33:06 wasn't peb__ earning a +q or +b from crashanddie for that annoyance, some months ago? Sep 15 09:33:58 MohammadAG51: Ping? Sep 15 09:34:22 was it peb_? Sep 15 09:34:38 lol, you got him on your /ignore ? Sep 15 09:34:43 no no Sep 15 09:34:53 I was wondering if it were indeed Peb who got banned for it Sep 15 09:35:32 anyone here know what the heck "canceled" means in modest's outbox? Sep 15 09:35:44 or how to debug "sending" Sep 15 09:36:02 sp3000: ping Sep 15 09:36:08 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=is+gone.+Gone+since+ Sep 15 09:36:11 * johnx wonders if he is the only person who ever had consistently good luck with modest ... Sep 15 09:36:16 lcuk2: Thinking of trying to, anyway Sep 15 09:36:19 (anyone know what my last point number was) Sep 15 09:36:36 johnx: i've generally not had much trouble w/ it Sep 15 09:36:36 peb peb_ peb__ peb___ is gone. Gone since... Sep 15 09:36:47 but it just ate my last x messages Sep 15 09:36:51 hi tekojo Sep 15 09:37:07 hi timeless Sep 15 09:37:08 timeless: 17 ? Sep 15 09:37:24 timeless: switching between cell with crappy reception and wifi? what were the circumstances? Sep 15 09:37:31 doc: is that available or used? Sep 15 09:37:41 jaffa cool Sep 15 09:37:41 peb__: in case you didn't get the message: deactivate your bloody away script. Sep 15 09:37:44 lol, not sure Sep 15 09:37:46 3.5g atm on o2 pay as you go Sep 15 09:37:56 timeless: got credit left? Sep 15 09:37:57 no wifi involved Sep 15 09:38:10 crashanddie: i'm using it now Sep 15 09:38:13 :b Sep 15 09:38:17 fairy nuff Sep 15 09:38:35 timeless: can you connect to an smtp and send an email manually? Sep 15 09:38:42 it's 10gbp for 1mo "unlimited" on an "iPhone only" plan Sep 15 09:38:43 Well, maybe they charge you per email ;) Sep 15 09:39:11 crashanddie: i don't think busybox includes telnet Sep 15 09:39:26 o2's data service allows port25 connections Sep 15 09:39:42 messybox and telnet - *cough* Sep 15 09:39:44 on contract, at least Sep 15 09:39:52 dream team Sep 15 09:39:55 it worked earlier Sep 15 09:40:13 actually, maemo has both telnet and netcat Sep 15 09:40:14 timeless: could you have roamed between towers? Sep 15 09:40:16 not messybox Sep 15 09:40:31 johnx: i wrote one from my guest house room Sep 15 09:40:43 so i was quite stationary Sep 15 09:40:54 MNZ: netcat? sure it wasn't socat? Sep 15 09:41:24 well the package says netcat Sep 15 09:41:39 and there's socat as well Sep 15 09:41:55 what repo? extras? Sep 15 09:42:04 guess that's new, as I'd prefer netcat over socat, for mere memorability of cmd syntax Sep 15 09:42:10 netcat -> tools Sep 15 09:42:19 socat -> extras Sep 15 09:42:28 telnet -> extras Sep 15 09:42:31 ooh, that might explain it Sep 15 09:42:32 grr Sep 15 09:42:39 you guys collectively suck Sep 15 09:42:42 :) Sep 15 09:43:07 * timeless picks tools Sep 15 09:43:18 * MNZ turns off vacuum. Sep 15 09:43:21 Better now? Sep 15 09:43:33 timeless: I guess sucking collectively would be better than... sucking oneself (or on our own?)? Sep 15 09:44:35 ok, would someone please give me a one liner to test nc/25 w/ a server they like? Sep 15 09:44:36 crashanddie, that would lead to trips to the orthopedist Sep 15 09:45:33 * timeless kicks the brilliant list-ui designer who didn't include integrated search Sep 15 09:45:35 Are there any videos of Nokia World ? Sep 15 09:45:47 (can't filter ham's catalog list) Sep 15 09:45:48 Can just find little clips, kinda want to watch all the keynotes Sep 15 09:46:04 * DocScrutinizer hands timeless heavy boots Sep 15 09:46:05 surely they'll suck, no? Sep 15 09:46:18 doc: nc line would be better Sep 15 09:46:36 ~debian timeless Sep 15 09:46:37 * infobot tells timeless to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Sep 15 09:46:49 alterego, theres been a live stream http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/home.htm Sep 15 09:46:57 and it says that a vid will be available Sep 15 09:47:06 ~ $ nc smtp.gmail.com 25 Sep 15 09:47:06 220 mx.google.com ESMTP x33sm196264weq.47 Sep 15 09:47:14 note: that page is awful, its got a sliding swiping phone in the background in eyeshot Sep 15 09:47:23 cat | nc your.serv.er 25 Sep 15 09:48:00 anyway, the above should confirm that mail works.. Sep 15 09:48:13 back to other stuff Sep 15 09:48:41 oh, mfe is still delivering inbound and retrieving contacts, so i shouldn't be locked out.. Sep 15 09:48:48 timeless: quick question. what do you mean by doesn't include integrated search. it has find-as-you-type Sep 15 09:49:17 johnx: open the catalogs dialog.. Sep 15 09:49:40 something each ui designer has to specify as turned on is stupid Sep 15 09:49:52 aah, that. I guess it wasn't designed to have that many catalogs Sep 15 09:50:06 i didn't kick the ham ui designer Sep 15 09:50:13 i kicked the widget ui designer Sep 15 09:50:18 aaah, got it Sep 15 09:51:33 anyway, can someone please help me figure out how to debug outbound mail w/ modest? Sep 15 09:51:47 tcpdump? Sep 15 09:51:55 i'm walking to edinburgh cstle and would like to conserve power Sep 15 09:52:07 tcpdump + wireshark Sep 15 09:52:30 grr Sep 15 09:52:34 bazookas unwelcome Sep 15 09:52:48 tcpdump then Sep 15 09:52:50 modest based logging preferred Sep 15 09:53:02 timeless: Just delete the mail and copy it into gmail web? Sep 15 09:53:32 Saves you a lot of energy :) Sep 15 09:53:37 um, there's no copy Sep 15 09:53:49 when i was asking for my point number Sep 15 09:57:39 18. a mail app should al allow one to perform all basic mail operations (move, copy, forward, reply, save) on messages in all folders (inbox, outbox, drafts, sent) Sep 15 09:58:24 Oh so that's what 'point number' is.. Are these points recorded anywhere besides the irc log? Sep 15 09:58:46 19. an onscreen keyboard shouldn't place l and ! next to eachother l Sep 15 09:59:25 not yet, but eventually... Sep 15 09:59:38 timeless, debugging the stream hmm Sep 15 09:59:48 not something actually expected Sep 15 10:00:01 especially not on the go Sep 15 10:00:26 is mail just sitting there? Sep 15 10:00:36 * timeless walks up north bridge to the royal mile - it's a wee bit longer than a proper mile... Sep 15 10:01:20 I should have gone to NW Sep 15 10:01:23 * alterego sighs Sep 15 10:02:49 it's sitting in outbox status 'sending' and status 'canceled' - 2 messages.. Sep 15 10:04:09 nice timeless how are you connecting smtp/imap? Sep 15 10:04:32 and is the account simple or complex (ie lots of folders or just straight normal bleh account) Sep 15 10:04:38 20. a contacts view should *always* be able to open the corresponding card (the dialog from a contact in sms can't...) Sep 15 10:05:00 where are you reading the specs from btw? Sep 15 10:05:07 and where can i get the previous 18? Sep 15 10:05:25 timeless: small bazooka: tshark Sep 15 10:05:54 timeless: tshark|less even Sep 15 10:06:44 don't use this command via ssh, kids! Sep 15 10:07:08 21. a multiline editor (e.g. for mail) while free to show 2-3 lines of a longer blob *must* automatically bring in a subsequent or preceeding line when the user reduces the lines to 1. Sep 15 10:07:48 irc log link is in topic, try yesterday. Sep 15 10:08:16 this is an mfe account w/ 20 or so remote folders. Sep 15 10:09:41 timeless, does it get new messages down? Sep 15 10:09:41 it's 11am and i've arrived at the castle, time to conserve power Sep 15 10:09:47 ok Sep 15 10:09:56 lcuk: yes Sep 15 10:10:42 hmm Sep 15 10:15:13 Hi ! Sep 15 10:17:43 Khertan: Using Khweeteur, very nice. Sep 15 10:18:08 Khertan: Can it embolden (or some other way) the @replies? Sep 15 10:18:22 embolden ? Sep 15 10:18:28 Khertan_: accentuer Sep 15 10:18:31 Khertan: As in make bolder :) Sep 15 10:18:33 * Khertan_ launch google translator :) Sep 15 10:18:40 ah thx crashanddie Sep 15 10:18:41 :) Sep 15 10:19:18 Khertan: Notifications are nice, but they seem to open a new window, even if I have one open. That's the biggest issue I've seen so far. Sep 15 10:19:23 hum ... just only the @reply to you or all @reply ? Sep 15 10:19:33 Khertan_: @reply to the user Sep 15 10:19:38 Jaffa: yep notification is broken since 0.0.27 Sep 15 10:19:41 well, anything that matches @$username Sep 15 10:20:02 Jaffa: and i'm fighting against dbus to understand why Sep 15 10:20:10 Yeah Sep 15 10:20:16 What crashanddie said Sep 15 10:20:19 * Khertan_ didn't like dbus Sep 15 10:20:26 Khertan_: DBus fun! Sep 15 10:20:31 Khertan_: also, the twitter API provides a "in reply to" tweet ID Sep 15 10:20:45 this could enable conversation-style tweet display Sep 15 10:20:55 crashanddie: which is broken Sep 15 10:20:58 no it's not Sep 15 10:21:19 you just need to parse them as strings, not ints :P Sep 15 10:21:25 What is "serialisation"? (with tweets/Twitter= I know the concept in general) Sep 15 10:21:33 it s ... made a try and you ll see most reply didn't have any in_reply_to id Sep 15 10:21:46 Khertan_: then it's the other client that is broken Sep 15 10:21:53 Khertan_: but a good client, or the web interface do it properly Sep 15 10:22:10 crashanddie: :) it could but the result is the same ... user complain about tweeteur := Sep 15 10:22:13 :) Sep 15 10:22:13 witter does it afaik Sep 15 10:22:28 anyay, out for lunch Sep 15 10:22:30 later Sep 15 10:22:46 but the question is how display reply correctly Sep 15 10:23:13 put the icon the other side ? Sep 15 10:23:48 and display the original text in small font in the bottom ? Sep 15 10:24:29 someone know status.net works ? Sep 15 10:29:36 ouch ... there is a but in reply_to in Khweeteur Sep 15 10:29:38 :) Sep 15 10:34:47 hey guys Sep 15 10:34:53 * tlir been a while... Sep 15 10:36:13 has anyone tried android on the n810? Sep 15 10:48:44 is it just me or it isn't possible to install libqt4-gui due to unmet dependencies on ARM? (opengles-* stuff) Sep 15 10:49:17 added the nokia-binaries repo? Sep 15 10:50:32 Stskeeps: oh no Sep 15 10:50:34 >.< Sep 15 10:50:40 ok might be that Sep 15 10:50:45 thx Sep 15 10:53:55 lol Sep 15 10:54:28 about 40% of the people at the htc launch have nokia world badges showing Sep 15 10:57:27 i hear everyone got given survival kits from nokia too? Sep 15 10:58:21 meego strategy should include a decoupled OS/device track. 1) Turbo-fy a unity to Work-up Meego-Arm to a competitive consumer-phone OS. 2) Task one unit to bring-out the hottest spread of smart-phones they can, regardless of where the OS-update status is. I don't think Nokia can afford the current release cycle. Sep 15 11:01:34 any clues as to where a live stream for the htc event is? Sep 15 11:01:35 pupnik_: second that Sep 15 11:05:28 nidO, its here http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/ Sep 15 11:05:42 :< Sep 15 11:06:29 thats the only event that matters right to many around here right now Sep 15 11:12:46 Hi all, just got N900 in the mail... looking forward to doing some SDK work... I need to ask a stupid question first... how do I find my own phone number? Sep 15 11:13:46 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Phone - pnatd / at+cnum=? is the wrong way Sep 15 11:14:13 Carneque, i normally end up calling my other phone with a new sim, but theres some technical way as SpeedEvil showed :P Sep 15 11:15:01 well since I can now, I might as well find it the super difficult way... of course that's why we all got this phone to begin with right? Sep 15 11:15:42 oh that's actually really easy... sweet Sep 15 11:15:52 thanks speedevil Sep 15 11:16:10 I'm sure it's probably also in gconf Sep 15 11:16:16 Yo dawg! We heard that you like interfaces, so we've created the interface above the interface, so you can navigate while you navigate Sep 15 11:16:25 (c) HTC Sep 15 11:16:42 The Contact section also has a "My Settings" or something like it section Sep 15 11:16:53 in fairness, nothing wrong with that. Sense is far better than the uis their devices would ship with otherwise Sep 15 11:17:57 nidO: I'm fine with "another" UI, but UI on top of the UI on top of the UI Sep 15 11:18:15 nidO: that's what Sense for WM was actually :) Sep 15 11:18:29 anyone thought about adding some backtrack linux functionality to the N900? Sep 15 11:18:33 well, until winmo and android ship with command-line only versions, thats the best HTC can do :> Sep 15 11:18:47 nidO: MeeGo is the answer :) Sep 15 11:19:05 seriously though, no livestream for the htc event? :< Sep 15 11:19:51 nidO: they can't even power on htcsense.com in time :P Sep 15 11:19:53 my phone doesn't know its own number :) Sep 15 11:21:53 Carneque, there are already several projects working on that Sep 15 11:28:32 samsung tab for $1240 - oh my :) Sep 15 11:29:29 ShadSEC, any links? Sep 15 11:31:57 www.neopwn.com - Very alfa yet, but they have developed modules with injection support Sep 15 11:32:17 also, it is some weird thing mixing open source with paid beta...... Sep 15 11:32:41 but the injection modules are great Sep 15 11:33:40 I wonder if they have already reach the 1300 euro for releasing the source of the patch Sep 15 11:34:26 It'd be nice if I could have firefox to per tab proxying :/ Sep 15 11:34:35 on maemo.org talk you can search for kismet and aircrack-ng Sep 15 11:35:45 cool SEC, do you work for the SEC? Sep 15 11:35:52 whats the SEC? Sep 15 11:36:03 the SEC in mi nick stands for security Sep 15 11:36:03 Securities and Exchange Commission? Sep 15 11:36:07 obviously not Sep 15 11:37:56 * SpeedEvil imagines ShadSEC... http://stylefrizz.com/img/louis-vuitton-lv-monogram-gimp-mask.jpg Sep 15 11:39:31 lol Sep 15 11:44:19 ShadSEC: well, it's a shame they absolutely want to use chroot, when there's utterly no need for it Sep 15 11:44:48 That's a very interesting topic.... Sep 15 11:44:57 it depends... Sep 15 11:45:15 ShadSEC: plus, the chroot is fucking up more things than actually fixes it. And the mount menu is completely fucked as well. They have some serious bugs they need to weed out Sep 15 11:45:41 I have tested the injection modules, but I havent even mounted neopwn yet Sep 15 11:45:52 I mean, I like the idea, of having a unified interface is nice Sep 15 11:46:12 But what is it in the end? Just a compilation of tools readily available, and just waiting to be compiled? Sep 15 11:46:17 I am also working on some related project, probably will release something in a week or two Sep 15 11:46:32 So basically, he took on the projet to collect a number of tools, but couldn't be bothered to compile them natively? Sep 15 11:46:36 And, I have done all the development inside a chroot Sep 15 11:46:44 I think it is safest for many reasons Sep 15 11:46:48 safest? Sep 15 11:46:59 He's mounting all of proc, sys, and whatnot to the chroot Sep 15 11:47:01 also, you get the option to natively compile, that's something unresonable to do outside a chroot Sep 15 11:47:17 unreasonable? WTH? Sep 15 11:47:34 space issues and more... Sep 15 11:47:45 erhm... Sep 15 11:47:48 I have come to a conclusion about maemo/n900 Sep 15 11:48:01 the main "phone" os, should be left unharmed Sep 15 11:48:14 then it should be a community secondary FULL OS in a chroot Sep 15 11:48:25 lmao Sep 15 11:48:30 why? Sep 15 11:48:32 except maemo's nothing like that Sep 15 11:48:39 yeah, because we really ahve the ability to throw RAM in the air, eh? Sep 15 11:48:45 and if you want a community chroot os Sep 15 11:48:47 Maybe you want a chroot for every single app out there? Sep 15 11:48:53 easydebian's been in the repos for quite a while Sep 15 11:49:05 no, just one main, and one secondar COMMNITY chroot Sep 15 11:49:09 community Sep 15 11:49:17 I really don't see the point Sep 15 11:49:24 we have QA processes for a reason Sep 15 11:49:36 and chroot will just enable bad practises and wasted CPU cycles Sep 15 11:49:41 but you wouldn't need that much QA that is needed now Sep 15 11:49:50 of course you would Sep 15 11:49:58 you're just sliding the problem somewhere else Sep 15 11:50:01 I don't see why it would waste more cpu Sep 15 11:50:14 in fact, it isnt in practice because that is exactly what i am running here Sep 15 11:50:43 if everything runs inside a chroot, you'll just end up with people not wanting to kill their chroot. So instead of doing QA for the primary, "phone OS" as you call it, you'd just be doing QA for the chroot Sep 15 11:50:57 i am being pragmatic.... there are lots of missing packages for mainmaemo because of those QA issues Sep 15 11:51:05 when you can compile most of them right away inside a chroot Sep 15 11:51:15 and you can compile most stuff inside Maemo directly as well Sep 15 11:51:28 yes, but you are taking risks doing that Sep 15 11:51:36 just as you are doing it in chroot Sep 15 11:51:39 chroot uses significant amounts of extra RAM Sep 15 11:51:48 I dont notice it Sep 15 11:52:08 how much would you call significant extra? 10%? Sep 15 11:52:36 ShadSEC: not only do you need to load/swap the main libraries, on top of that you have to load the other libraries of the secondary os inside the chroot Sep 15 11:53:11 Only the ones missing on the main os Sep 15 11:53:54 god damn, you sound almost as thick as swc|666 himself Sep 15 11:54:14 it works great for me, what can i say Sep 15 11:54:19 well, good for you Sep 15 11:54:23 I don't see it taking off though Sep 15 11:54:35 anyway, about the neopwn chroot Sep 15 11:54:40 I'd rather package the drivers nicely, with some natively compiled apps, properly optified. Sep 15 11:54:44 its easier that way in first place Sep 15 11:55:08 and considering how alpha it is I dont think he has had the time to even consider other way Sep 15 11:55:28 no, he decided to put himself in this shit Sep 15 11:55:32 big major difference Sep 15 11:55:41 But you can already do that Sep 15 11:55:54 ShadSEC: no - you inside a chroot need to load all the libraries inside the chroot into RAM. Sep 15 11:56:03 ShadSEC: Independantly of if they are present on the main system. Sep 15 11:56:14 I have moved some apps compiled in the chroot and take them out to main os.. everything is working perfectly Sep 15 11:56:32 ShadSEC: Normally - if you have 100 programs using glibc, you have one copy of it in RAM. With a chroot, you have two. Sep 15 11:56:38 ShadSEC: but that only works if your chroot has the same glibc, the same kernel, the same dynamic libraries Sep 15 11:57:06 speedevil, mmm Sep 15 11:57:14 the same glibc i am not sure Sep 15 11:57:14 ShadSEC: and in that regard, it's exactly the same as running everything in the main OS. Just use scratchbox for dev, and the device for testing. Tons of people are doing it. Sep 15 11:57:19 the same kernel yes, of course Sep 15 11:57:30 ShadSEC: well, a compatible glibc at least Sep 15 11:57:31 the same libs... well, i first copied all the main os ones to the chroot Sep 15 11:57:39 ShadSEC: (so the chroot needs to have an older glibc than the main OS) Sep 15 11:57:42 ShadSEC: the same or different libs are quite different. Sep 15 11:57:48 any adds or changes that have been made later were just needed Sep 15 11:57:49 ShadSEC: Err - the same Sep 15 11:57:57 ShadSEC: with respect to memory usage. Sep 15 11:58:16 ShadSEC: you need a copy in RAM from the chroot, and from the main OS. Sep 15 11:58:33 do you want to know why he's doing everything inside a chroot? Sep 15 11:58:38 I'll tell you why Sep 15 11:58:45 because he wants to limit the apps to only run inside neopwn Sep 15 11:58:56 that way, he thinks he'll have a steady stream of income Sep 15 11:59:22 probably you guys are right, but I can only say it is working great for me, and I don't notice the penalty in practise Sep 15 11:59:24 Heck, I'm decompiling the drivers as we speak, reverse engineering them, and as soon as I have workable sources, I'm releasing to the public Sep 15 12:00:09 I am not so sure it is all for the money... Sep 15 12:00:14 yes it is Sep 15 12:00:15 but who knows Sep 15 12:00:22 he was pissed that nobody bought neopwn with the n900 Sep 15 12:00:42 the guy has I don't know how many "financially involved contributors" Sep 15 12:00:45 which means he has debts Sep 15 12:01:12 I wasn't very positive about the failed announce and all that sutff.... (appnns in forum), but at least they developed the injection patch, which is GREAT. Sep 15 12:01:32 and they should've opened up immediately at that point Sep 15 12:01:42 but he didn't, and decided to go commercial Sep 15 12:01:59 worse yet, he decided to make people pay for something he didn't have yet, so that he could get the money to unlock the driver Sep 15 12:02:43 from what I can tell he is using compat-wireless Sep 15 12:02:54 well, duh Sep 15 12:02:58 "insmod compat.ko" Sep 15 12:03:32 uh? Sep 15 12:04:07 lol Sep 15 12:04:10 how did you install it? Sep 15 12:04:24 About the paying thing... it would have been much better if he had just said that in first instance Sep 15 12:04:25 ahem Sep 15 12:04:31 there's no compat.ko Sep 15 12:04:42 * MohammadAG51 disagrees Sep 15 12:05:41 ShadSEC: so how did you install it, then? Sep 15 12:05:58 cfg80211.ko compat.ko control-panel-ui.tar.gz kernel-power-flasher_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb kernel-power-modules_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb mac80211.ko neopwn neopwn.desktop neopwn.png neopwn.sh optimize.sh rfkill_backport.ko test.sh wl1251.ko wl1251_spi.ko Sep 15 12:06:15 file list on a line ftw Sep 15 12:06:20 timeless: pong Sep 15 12:06:26 timeless: 10098#c2 doesn't wfm Sep 15 12:06:29 MohammadAG51: could you test something for me? Sep 15 12:06:34 sure Sep 15 12:06:37 MohammadAG51: remove the powerkernel provided by neopwn Sep 15 12:06:38 gezz yer right ;) Sep 15 12:06:42 MohammadAG51: install the one in the repos Sep 15 12:06:50 MohammadAG51: and load the modules Sep 15 12:06:51 crashanddie, it should work Sep 15 12:06:52 but yeah, I'll do that Sep 15 12:07:00 didn't look at it after I scripted Sep 15 12:07:01 if it works, I'm packaging tonight and releasing Sep 15 12:07:15 shout if you need help with packaging Sep 15 12:07:19 sure Sep 15 12:07:19 I did Sep 15 12:07:25 and it complaines about missing symbols Sep 15 12:07:29 lol Sep 15 12:07:33 yeah, sure it does :) Sep 15 12:07:38 hmm Sep 15 12:07:41 Half following the conversation from my n900 Sep 15 12:07:42 * crashanddie highfives MohammadAG51 for finding that one Sep 15 12:07:44 MohammadAG51: As you are a lazy bastard, I fixed fb for you ;) Sep 15 12:07:50 MohammadAG51: Hope you don't mind :) Sep 15 12:07:51 Has he released the kernel source? Sep 15 12:07:54 facebook? Sep 15 12:07:56 Termana: nope Sep 15 12:07:58 it wasn't broken! Sep 15 12:07:59 :P Sep 15 12:08:04 MohammadAG51: frozen bubble. Sep 15 12:08:10 Termana: we just have the binaries.. I'm trying to reverse engineer it though. Sep 15 12:08:13 I uploaded a new package lol Sep 15 12:08:26 * MohammadAG51 curses broken OpenWRT install Sep 15 12:08:30 MohammadAG51: Yeah, but I changed it to depend on new perl. Sep 15 12:08:35 So, isn't this a GPL violation? Sep 15 12:08:36 crashanddie, aren't they suppossed to release it when they reach 1300 euro? Sep 15 12:08:41 yeah X-Fade i uploaded that Sep 15 12:08:47 didn't check if it went through though Sep 15 12:08:57 Termana, it is Sep 15 12:09:02 MohammadAG51: I created a -2 at least. Sep 15 12:09:12 MohammadAG51: 5-1 was the lastest. Sep 15 12:09:26 hmm, then it didn't go through Sep 15 12:09:30 Termana: well, they're not exactly distributing Sep 15 12:09:39 X-Fade, I might keep it in -devel tbh Sep 15 12:09:49 too many testers think depending on perl is a blocker Sep 15 12:09:52 Termana: so they're not violating it... But I don't think reverse engineering a GPL driver is a violation, regardless of my having the source code or not Sep 15 12:10:10 MohammadAG51: Well now we should push it. As they will get free space. Sep 15 12:10:10 cashhandle it isn't Sep 15 12:10:14 typo intended :P Sep 15 12:10:17 i know Sep 15 12:10:20 xD Sep 15 12:10:27 MohammadAG51: And perl is now available in apps, so for everybody. Sep 15 12:10:27 :P Sep 15 12:10:28 "Cash Handler" Sep 15 12:10:41 * MohammadAG51 likes Crash Handle better Sep 15 12:10:42 actually, that'd be a better suited nickname for swc|666 Sep 15 12:10:50 rofl Sep 15 12:10:59 X-Fade, I'll think about it :P Sep 15 12:11:15 the QA team needs to be fired (wrong word) and reviewed Sep 15 12:11:31 assign new testers and don't let n00bs (no offence) test Sep 15 12:11:51 depending on perl is like depending on pyside, it's not my fault the game needs it Sep 15 12:12:15 MohammadAG51: Yeah, but it used to cost a lot of space on rootfs. Now it doesn't. Sep 15 12:12:26 http://twitter.com/teotwaki/status/24563767706 Sep 15 12:12:59 crashanddie, Sep 15 12:13:00 why 'no sources'? Sep 15 12:13:01 :P Sep 15 12:13:08 Stskeeps: cuz I don't have them Sep 15 12:13:14 heh Sep 15 12:13:17 why not upload kernel-power wl1 to devel Sep 15 12:13:19 non-free Sep 15 12:13:20 fired or shooted? Sep 15 12:13:29 shot* that too Sep 15 12:14:44 MohammadAG51: Won't that conflict with the existing one? Sep 15 12:14:56 nope, shouldn't Sep 15 12:15:04 it's a different package name Sep 15 12:15:27 or... not Sep 15 12:15:34 if it's one thing the ssu taught me Sep 15 12:15:42 it's how to unpack and repack properly Sep 15 12:16:16 * Stskeeps twitches Sep 15 12:16:39 * MohammadAG51 points to GPL in debian/copyright Sep 15 12:17:15 MohammadAG51, how to repack?? I have tried it a bunch of times and gave up... simply using ar fails. Sep 15 12:17:25 todays meego image seems curiously absent from tablets-dev... problems with the build? Sep 15 12:17:33 mece: fairly large bunch Sep 15 12:17:44 the good news is that our qt nightmares are over Sep 15 12:17:45 :P Sep 15 12:18:13 meego had nightmares? Sep 15 12:18:27 I thought it was happycamperville :P Sep 15 12:18:31 MNZ, dpkg-deb -b Sep 15 12:18:34 lcuk, the MeeGo men had nightmares Sep 15 12:18:37 lcuk, young 'uns often do. Sep 15 12:18:46 if you have to repack, you're doing stuff wrong Sep 15 12:18:47 :P Sep 15 12:19:06 mece mm Sep 15 12:19:19 MohammadAG51, I meant an actual deb unpacked with 'ar x bla.deb' Sep 15 12:19:24 Stskeeps, is that why you pack several times for any flights? Sep 15 12:19:25 ar? Sep 15 12:19:25 :P Sep 15 12:19:27 idk Sep 15 12:19:34 I use dpkg-deb -x to unpack Sep 15 12:20:11 yeah, the more sensible way. I should just stop doing that ar thing :/ Sep 15 12:20:12 crashanddie, shoving a random binary that you didnt develop into non free sounds painful Sep 15 12:20:24 how can you confirm its validity ? Sep 15 12:20:44 as a security person I would have thought you wouldnt take a risk like that? Sep 15 12:21:01 it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by Sep 15 12:21:02 Stskeeps, see? Sep 15 12:21:09 i can modify the kernel package, and I'm not violating anything Sep 15 12:21:47 * lcuk smiles at qtmobility Sep 15 12:22:07 * mece cuddles qtmobility Sep 15 12:22:43 * mece stops cuddling qtmobility and eyes qtquick instead Sep 15 12:22:45 * MNZ googles qtmobility Sep 15 12:22:58 * MohammadAG51 pets qtmobility with a knife Sep 15 12:22:58 * frals trouts lcuk Sep 15 12:23:08 * MohammadAG51 slaps frals with an infobot Sep 15 12:23:22 (that thing bites) Sep 15 12:23:25 * mece runs, screaming something about "Zombies" Sep 15 12:23:38 * MNZ thinks you are a crazy bunch Sep 15 12:23:46 http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/15/nokia-crashes-htcs-london-event-with-red-balloons-hate/ - :P Sep 15 12:24:01 MNZ, who isn't, muhahaha Sep 15 12:24:46 lcuk: I never said I'd shove it in non-free Sep 15 12:24:49 mece qtmobility isnt all about front end stuff, its talking to the backend with nice classes. Sep 15 12:24:56 lcuk: I said I'd release it, entirely different things Sep 15 12:25:14 Pending a few tests by @MohammadAG this afternoon, I will be releasing the Wifi injection driver for the #Nokia #N900 tonight. (No sources) Sep 15 12:25:17 lcuk, I know. So much funky new stuff, so little time.. Sep 15 12:25:19 release it with no sources Sep 15 12:25:27 you cant put it into free section with no sources Sep 15 12:25:35 the only way you can do it is to put it in non-free Sep 15 12:25:36 lcuk: and? Sep 15 12:25:49 LOL @ nokia Sep 15 12:25:53 lcuk: no, I can just put it on an FTP or even megaupload for that matter Sep 15 12:26:19 lcuk, actually he can Sep 15 12:26:30 HTC came to NokiaWorld with buses to get the people over to their gig though... Sep 15 12:26:30 hmm MohammadAG51 Sep 15 12:26:32 someone did that with unrar on the ubuntu repos Sep 15 12:26:48 just make a debian/rules o cp files Sep 15 12:26:49 did they get shouted at or is it still there? Sep 15 12:27:00 mece, ouch Sep 15 12:27:18 still there afaik Sep 15 12:27:47 and i was a packaging noob months ago, so I kinda did the same with Open Remote Play (SORRY!) Sep 15 12:28:26 frals, could you let me borrow that trout of yours please Sep 15 12:29:01 yeah.. I'm out. ta. Sep 15 12:30:43 MohammadAG51, when frals gets back Sep 15 12:30:55 get him to slap you with his trout Sep 15 12:31:08 lcuk: my precioussssssssssssssssssssssss Sep 15 12:33:35 * tybollt slaps frals w/ MohammadAG51 Sep 15 12:35:00 lcuk, I'd rather frals just leave his 'trout' right where it belongs Sep 15 12:35:07 :P Sep 15 12:36:38 LOL Sep 15 12:37:35 * pupnik_ frals tybollt with a MohammadAG51 Sep 15 12:38:39 * Termana ted pupnik_ Sep 15 12:38:56 Too bad it's not spelt right :P Sep 15 12:41:01 bonus points if you make your quit message "Conversation Termanated" Sep 15 12:45:51 anybody tried modprobe --force , on stock and uncrippled power kernel ? Sep 15 12:47:56 (can't get worse than kernel OOPS, no?) Sep 15 12:48:33 hi Sep 15 12:48:35 anything similar for insmod! Sep 15 12:48:51 eeh? Sep 15 12:48:52 How does one get voice navigation in maperro? Sep 15 12:48:59 insmod is obsolete Sep 15 12:49:04 ?* Sep 15 12:49:12 For the life of me I can't make it work. Sep 15 12:49:52 modprobe is the 'new' insmod (since 10 years or what, now) Sep 15 12:51:46 man insmod: 2002-12-27 ... Most users will want to use modprobe(8) instead, which is more clever. Sep 15 12:52:29 insmod don't load dependencies Sep 15 12:52:52 insmod in maemo doesnt have --force-magic Sep 15 12:54:35 or it does? mmmm Sep 15 12:57:33 --force == --force-vermagic and --force-modversion. == -f Sep 15 12:58:08 what's --force-magic ? Sep 15 12:58:58 opps, typo Sep 15 12:59:07 Is anyone using mappero? Sep 15 12:59:39 if it happens not to crash Sep 15 12:59:42 sometimes yes Sep 15 13:00:21 Is there any working and usable voice navigation for N900? Sep 15 13:00:36 yes, mappero Sep 15 13:00:54 sygic Sep 15 13:00:54 :P Sep 15 13:01:10 How do you enable voice? There is no sound in mappero. Sep 15 13:01:27 in mouse is enable , but in a italian voice Sep 15 13:01:29 in settings is an option called "voice guidance" or something equally obvious Sep 15 13:01:30 tick it Sep 15 13:01:34 i never bother change it Sep 15 13:02:34 It is on. There is still no sound. No error either. Sep 15 13:02:44 turned your phone off silent? Sep 15 13:02:56 also, are you moving currently? Sep 15 13:04:28 no phone is not on silent. I am not moving now. But I tested it earlyer by settin a goal and there was no sound. Sep 15 13:04:57 Do goals have alarms? Sep 15 13:05:14 Oh, you're talking about mapping :) Sep 15 13:08:11 I can't believe Nokia World didn't see any MeeGo action. Sep 15 13:08:41 MeeGo Conference comes in a month Sep 15 13:08:44 hello Sep 15 13:09:17 i have a problem, i cant use wifi at all anymore, it started around 1 month ago, basically, it cannot do ifconfig wlan0 up Sep 15 13:09:21 then it just hangs Sep 15 13:09:25 and wlancond starts using 100% cpu Sep 15 13:09:42 in dmesg i see wl1251: error timeout waiting for the hardware to complete initialization Sep 15 13:09:42 just after it loads the firmware Sep 15 13:09:48 wl1251-bin.fw Sep 15 13:10:33 im on a very slow internet connection right now, the http conns drop all the time, so i cant really google about it Sep 15 13:10:41 anyone that knows anything about this? Sep 15 13:11:36 redeeman, how do i do ifup from the UI? Sep 15 13:11:45 i cant find it Sep 15 13:11:56 it does it before trying to search for accesspoints Sep 15 13:11:56 ifconfig ^ Sep 15 13:12:15 if it do it manually same issue Sep 15 13:12:44 so what, your network list just doesnt show anything to connect to? Sep 15 13:12:53 yep Sep 15 13:12:53 Noma, doesn't have the same media coverage. Sep 15 13:12:56 it used to work ofc Sep 15 13:13:12 borked firmware file? Sep 15 13:13:18 GAN900: but it would've been a bad mistake to release a meego phone with completely unfinished os Sep 15 13:13:30 redeeman: borked firmware file? Sep 15 13:13:34 Noma, not release. Sep 15 13:13:39 DocScrutinizer, can you post md5sum of correct ones? Sep 15 13:13:41 GAN900, indeed, though some stuff got done hopefully Sep 15 13:13:48 ari and jaffa and thp were there Sep 15 13:13:59 thp will at least be interested in the gtk stide somewhat Sep 15 13:14:04 Noma, Nokia never has releases synch up with announcements Sep 15 13:14:11 unless he is rebuilding gpodder from scratch Sep 15 13:14:13 But some at least would've been nice Sep 15 13:14:24 * lcuk still miffed at not going Sep 15 13:14:31 if you paste cmdline here to do, I'll do Sep 15 13:14:35 Instead we get a nice little demonstration that Symbian is still Nokia's favorite. Sep 15 13:14:46 GAN900, understandably so Sep 15 13:14:49 nothing wrong with that Sep 15 13:14:51 theres a lot of hard work gone into t Sep 15 13:14:55 and it does look good Sep 15 13:15:17 if the would've said that "yeah we have a meego phone coming soon", who would've bought those symbian phones? of course the hype them now Sep 15 13:15:19 md5sum /lib/firmware/wl* Sep 15 13:15:33 symbian's tried and tested and works well, even if socialtards whine that "symbian r sux" just because s60's interface is dated Sep 15 13:15:35 redeeman: sorry but c+p is all I can do right now Sep 15 13:15:41 ok Sep 15 13:15:57 * lcuk goes walkabout, bbl Sep 15 13:16:08 alternatively if someone else could just upload those two files somewhere i'd apreciate it Sep 15 13:16:12 nidO, note that the N900 is still Nokia's most powerful hardware. Sep 15 13:16:15 haha Sep 15 13:16:23 this quote seems like it was written for the iPhone Sep 15 13:16:33 3a68787e5b1cb75e2a8c160ad79297ab /lib/firmware/wl1251-fw.bin Sep 15 13:16:35 "If a machine can be made so that an idiot can use it, then only an idiot will use it." Sep 15 13:16:48 GAN900: which nicely demonstrates how good s^3 is under the hood, being as all it's new lower-spec phones are running s^3 really nicely Sep 15 13:16:49 I'm writing a webapp and i want to make sure it has good maemo support Sep 15 13:16:53 Betting on the "tried and true" rarely got anybody very far in the tech sector. Sep 15 13:16:59 6d570e73a9cb1f686b2ad5cdbbdf6b83 /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin Sep 15 13:17:12 are there any guides to make sure i'm not doing anything too crazy like there are for iphone etc? Sep 15 13:17:15 nidO, I'm not sure that's what I take away from it. Sep 15 13:17:16 same as here Sep 15 13:17:31 yoasif: yes, on the forum nokia site. Sep 15 13:18:06 Windows 98 runs really nicely on limited hardware, too. Sep 15 13:18:39 nidO, symbian does suck, and their new user interface is no difference. I still think it sucks. Sep 15 13:19:08 the fact remains, the new raft of devices from nokia are cheap, so there's not going to be crazy mad highspec hardware in them. all 4 of them are budget-to-midlevel price, and have relatively high-end though not groundbreaking hardware in them - nothing going for the cream of the top-end there, but that doesnt diminish what *has* come out Sep 15 13:19:24 Termana: the "new" interface isn't realy knew. Sep 15 13:19:28 Just more additions for touch devices. Sep 15 13:19:38 Symbian^4 will hgave a whole new UI Sep 15 13:19:52 Completely based on Qt Sep 15 13:19:57 (thank god) :) Sep 15 13:23:56 alterego: symbian^3 Sep 15 13:26:04 alterego, if i just do a mobile ui optimized for iphone it should look ok on nokia right? :/ Sep 15 13:26:37 yoasif: sure, I don't see why not. Sep 15 13:27:15 alterego, you think the guys here would be willing to play with it once i am done? Sep 15 13:28:00 I'm sure someone will, try talking on talk.maemo.org Sep 15 13:28:20 Why hasn't IPADD on tmo been banned yet? He's posted like four ads in the last hour Sep 15 13:30:04 alterego: you must be mistaken, this is #maemo, not #tmo. Sep 15 13:32:35 hm, nokia releasing their own charging mat then eh Sep 15 13:33:29 why they don't make it compatible with stuff already on market Sep 15 13:33:37 sadly its not actually wireless Sep 15 13:33:39 it will take 20 years for them to standarise on something Sep 15 13:33:47 and it will end up like microusb Sep 15 13:33:47 it seems to just be a dock with 4 charge cables Sep 15 13:35:48 shame really, an obvious play for any of the big manus seems to me to pick up the tech powermat or similar use, and start building the inductors into all their future phones Sep 15 13:38:15 nidO: its a dock with 4 cables and some usb slots for plugging in whatever brand chargers and comes with se/lg/samsung adapters or something like that Sep 15 13:38:33 yer see up, figured that out right after my initial excitement :( Sep 15 13:41:15 ah, my bad Sep 15 13:42:01 I just saw the picture before actually looking carefully and reading, had figured that might be a prelude to building induction charging into the phones or batteries :p Sep 15 13:49:35 the last few days, hildon-desktop has been doing the fade-in-fade-out transitions for putting a single-line note up, without actually stopping to show me a note. This is on fremantle. Does that sound familiar to anyone? Sep 15 13:54:16 marnanel, reboot? Sep 15 13:55:16 marnanel, ^ Sep 15 13:55:32 * marnanel has done so, and it still does it Sep 15 13:56:07 It does display notes properly when there are notes to display, but it just keeps running this transition every ten or twenty seconds the rest of the time Sep 15 13:56:44 marnanel, screenshot Sep 15 13:57:20 lcuk: the transition takes ~ half a second, it will be very difficult to get a screenshot of it Sep 15 13:57:52 marnanel, how often? Sep 15 13:58:13 every ten or twenty seconds. I could time it if you like Sep 15 13:58:54 hmm you have something trying to sign in? Sep 15 13:59:06 it doesnt sound familiar to me Sep 15 13:59:34 but since nowadays theres soooooo many apps available thats not difficult Sep 15 14:04:15 marnanel: which transition? Sep 15 14:04:16 * marnanel will try it with all IM accounts disabled and see Sep 15 14:04:36 fade-in/out? Sep 15 14:04:58 DocScrutinizer: the one which is used to display a single-line note that drops down from the top of the screen, causing the background to blur, and then rises up again, unblurring the background Sep 15 14:05:53 and you say background blurs and unblurs without any yellow notifier showing? Sep 15 14:06:54 yes Sep 15 14:07:15 please check exact frequency, and variance in freq Sep 15 14:07:18 it's haunted Sep 15 14:07:38 it's bored Sep 15 14:07:51 I remember to have seen some "notify every 30s about xyz" Sep 15 14:08:42 if transition is 'too slow' for configured display time of notifier, it might easily look like transitions are for no apparent reason Sep 15 14:09:29 ...where nofier is destructed before transition had a chance to display it Sep 15 14:09:37 notifier* Sep 15 14:09:59 * marnanel will time it for a few iterations Sep 15 14:10:10 k, Sep 15 14:10:46 also check if there are any updates in HAM, new SMS, mails, IM msgs, dunno what else Sep 15 14:10:55 missed calls Sep 15 14:12:07 damn, this must be annoying :-S Sep 15 14:13:51 is this notification a d-bus call usually, or is it a direct lib api call? Sep 15 14:13:58 of hildon desktop Sep 15 14:14:19 cause if it's d-bus you got good chances to track it down Sep 15 14:14:54 As far as I can remember it's triggered by a particular X property on the newly-created window Sep 15 14:15:04 though it's been a few months since I looked at it Sep 15 14:15:20 no idea, no devel here Sep 15 14:15:35 d-bus would have been nice, but I'm pretty sure it isn't Sep 15 14:16:15 well, I can write a script that checks for newly-created windows Sep 15 14:16:27 pangalactic ltrace? X-P Sep 15 14:16:55 that's called systemtap :) Sep 15 14:17:32 lindi-: what is, a way to check for newly-created windows? Sep 15 14:17:45 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/strace#How_to_Trace_All_the_Running_Applications Sep 15 14:18:00 gnhnhnnnhnhnnn Sep 15 14:18:23 good grief, no Sep 15 14:18:26 I don't want to strace it Sep 15 14:19:14 all I need to do is request property changes on the root window, which will tell me when the new window is created; then I can request the pid of the owner of that window, and I will know what app is putting them up Sep 15 14:19:32 * marnanel will try this after work and see how it goes Sep 15 14:19:45 marnanel: xtrace might help Sep 15 14:20:01 although I have only used it with one application at a time Sep 15 14:20:22 lindi-: thanks Sep 15 14:20:49 Portrait detection is really terrible Sep 15 14:21:03 I hope there's a lock switch in MeeGo. Sep 15 14:21:22 portrait detection? ;-D Sep 15 14:21:41 camera autotrigger on smile? X-P Sep 15 14:22:44 GAN900: if you're talking bout orientation sensing via g-meter, it's probably fubar in meego atm Sep 15 14:23:37 as g-meter doesn't even have a proper kernel driver Sep 15 14:24:09 the meego one is for externally powered joysticks :-P Sep 15 14:24:21 DocScrutinizer: Afaik it works in the meego snapshots. Sep 15 14:24:29 lol Sep 15 14:25:23 sure it 'works' - by sensorfw polling g-meter via I2C all the time(!) at a sampling rate of 20Hz or something similarly insane Sep 15 14:26:09 you for sure don't want to do this on a battery powered modile device Sep 15 14:27:05 I mentioned it in #meego-arm - answer: "is it upstream?" as if I knew or as if it even mattered Sep 15 14:29:05 hell, I'm checking and side-to-side reading LIS302 drivers for >2h, and all I earn is a "is it upstream" :-S Sep 15 14:29:37 meh, that's meego Sep 15 14:30:44 no, actually, we said "send patches", but sure.. Sep 15 14:31:36 patches should be developed in upstream, not in a distro Sep 15 14:33:08 I couldn't care less Sep 15 14:33:17 fair enough Sep 15 14:33:28 Maybe that is the real problem though :) Sep 15 14:34:57 I'm also not interested in 'the real problems of meego" - I just reviewed a meego driver and found it completely broken and pointed to a better implementation. I'm neither the developer nor maintainer of any of the drivers or distros Sep 15 14:35:04 nor are we Sep 15 14:35:18 Hi Sep 15 14:35:21 ooh, thought you were actively developing meego Sep 15 14:35:28 we don't develop the entire kernel. Sep 15 14:35:32 Is there any way to trouble shoot why alarmd doesn't switch profiles sometimes? Sep 15 14:35:45 anyone with knowledge of how other systems/distros/gorups manage accelerometer Sep 15 14:36:06 DocScrutinizer, you have mentioned the mode sensing callback/interupt thing before Sep 15 14:36:12 do other drivers make use of it? Sep 15 14:36:20 DocScrutinizer: i'm really tired of your negativity. i continously extend a hand to help you or make you able to do things, but you return with paranoia, grumpiness, generalization and insults. it blocks your own work and makes it difficult to defend your behaviour and attitudes. so, i'm done talking to you. Sep 15 14:36:21 maemo driver does Sep 15 14:36:26 or do most places use the polling mechanism Sep 15 14:37:25 Stskeeps: what in >> ooh, thought you were actively developing meego<< is an insult or negative, in your world? Sep 15 14:38:43 DocScrutinizer, which driver needs updating/changing/listening for for this interrupt? Sep 15 14:38:51 get practical Sep 15 14:38:56 i dont think anywhere uses it Sep 15 14:39:02 lis302dl Sep 15 14:39:15 is it something skills are available to modify Sep 15 14:39:23 general attitude and that wasn't it. if you had just had a sane outlook on the world instead of your shitty attitude, you'd have been much further. Sep 15 14:39:28 or does it need a whole new low->high level full interface building? Sep 15 14:39:39 and a shame to watch a good talent go to waste on stupid attitude. Sep 15 14:39:39 in maemo, in meego it's called lis3dl02x or something like that Sep 15 14:42:37 lcuk: the maemo implementation is mostly sane and comprehensive, while the upstream driver used in meego is 'crippled' and not optimized for power conservation Sep 15 14:43:06 DocScrutinizer, no Sep 15 14:43:09 maemo polls too Sep 15 14:43:42 (at least I think it does) Sep 15 14:44:05 if the chip has this cool interuppt callback on motion it would be great Sep 15 14:44:11 lcuk: as I'm not familiar with all the git stacking and whatnot, I can't comment on anything except the names are slightly different and the maemo one is better Sep 15 14:44:24 but it would need threading through from the low to high level Sep 15 14:44:45 afaik it has interrupts on thresholds. Sep 15 14:44:56 X-Fade: exactly Sep 15 14:44:57 Sep 15 14:45:01 Still needs to be powered up though ;) Sep 15 14:45:02 yeah which would be really good for power consumption Sep 15 14:45:08 bah! Sep 15 14:45:12 yep, sure Sep 15 14:45:23 X-Fade, starting and stopping my computer costs more than idling it :P Sep 15 14:45:39 lcuk: lis302 eats some uA on active standby Sep 15 14:46:20 and waking it up and sleeping it many times a second doesnt? Sep 15 14:46:24 considerably less than breathing light average Sep 15 14:49:50 lcuk: (threading thru from low to high) aiui a sane implementation like the maemo one is using uevents Sep 15 14:50:41 you're setting threshold in /sys and get a notification when a orientation change is detected Sep 15 14:50:59 otherwise just idle instead of poll@40Hz Sep 15 14:51:22 great Sep 15 14:51:32 so, how do we relay this information to the required people Sep 15 14:51:41 dunno Sep 15 14:51:42 hi, where can I find some informations on the DSPs? I'd like to decode high res videos(not within maemo but on my n900, another distro is used) what is better for decoding videos? the DSP or the CPU+NEON+mplayer Sep 15 14:51:53 so they can make an attempt at building this module and testing its power drain for reals Sep 15 14:52:12 GNUtoo|laptop, idk, speak with ti perhaps Sep 15 14:52:26 ah? Sep 15 14:52:27 or test it yourself Sep 15 14:52:32 ok Sep 15 14:52:40 then how do I use the DSP? Sep 15 14:52:49 I need gstreamer right? Sep 15 14:53:35 technically no Sep 15 14:54:35 ok Sep 15 14:54:46 DocScrutinizer, any idea if the interface is available o nthe maemo driver already? Sep 15 14:54:50 I was said mplayer couldn't use the DSP Sep 15 14:55:10 maybe I should ask in #oe or #beagle Sep 15 14:55:13 lcuk: just checking Sep 15 14:55:15 GNUtoo|laptop, install mplayer and see Sep 15 14:55:40 lcuk, stock big buck bunny 420p plays well Sep 15 14:56:04 then your life is complete already? Sep 15 14:56:05 GNUtoo|laptop: Sure, 720 does too. Sep 15 14:56:22 really? Sep 15 14:56:23 wow Sep 15 14:56:31 I'll try Sep 15 14:57:14 GNUtoo|laptop, out of academic interest which distro are you using where thats not working? Sep 15 14:58:32 **** Your system is too SLOW to play this! **** Sep 15 14:58:33 SHR Sep 15 14:58:38 it's very new Sep 15 14:58:45 we got it booting some days ago Sep 15 14:58:47 so... Sep 15 14:59:02 it's based on angstrom Sep 15 14:59:04 shr looks sweet Sep 15 14:59:08 yeah i have seen it :) Sep 15 14:59:15 mplayer big_buck_bunny_720p_surround.avi -vo x11 -ao alsa Sep 15 14:59:23 that's what I used Sep 15 14:59:26 should I try xv Sep 15 14:59:27 ? Sep 15 14:59:35 yes :) Sep 15 14:59:35 Why would you ever use x11? Sep 15 14:59:38 try anything Sep 15 14:59:52 because of that: Sep 15 15:00:03 Source image dimensions are too high: 1280x720 (maximum is 800x480) Sep 15 15:00:23 I'll try that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26538 Sep 15 15:00:38 Yeah, so why would you want to have 720p on a 480p screen? Sep 15 15:00:48 same issue Sep 15 15:00:52 That won't make it any better :) Sep 15 15:00:58 I know Sep 15 15:00:59 lcuk: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/* Sep 15 15:01:01 use case: Sep 15 15:01:14 you've got a 720p only version on the net Sep 15 15:01:16 or: Sep 15 15:01:16 lcuk: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c Sep 15 15:01:28 you've got a laptop and you don't want to transcode Sep 15 15:01:37 both uses cases are valid Sep 15 15:01:53 Anyway, omap3 can play 720p with proper hardware accel. Sep 15 15:02:12 GNUtoo|laptop, conclusion I have reach re:DSP is as a general rule of thumb, it's a pain Sep 15 15:02:17 * GNUtoo|laptop wonder if it's a legend, because koen used no sound and similar settings Sep 15 15:02:36 hmm, htc announces desire Z with keyboard Sep 15 15:02:37 DSP can do 720p? Sep 15 15:02:39 hi GNUtoo|laptop Sep 15 15:02:43 hi DocScrutinizer Sep 15 15:02:58 DocScrutinizer, btw why were you angry for the battery script? Sep 15 15:03:03 * GNUtoo|laptop didn't understood Sep 15 15:03:04 GNUtoo|laptop, google gst-dsp Sep 15 15:03:08 ok Sep 15 15:03:15 GNUtoo|laptop: doesn't belong here Sep 15 15:03:38 wow Sep 15 15:03:39 http://code.google.com/p/gst-dsp/ Sep 15 15:03:44 ok Sep 15 15:03:55 "...the name "S60" never passed a speaker's lips once. For years, executives would never say the word "Symbian". Now "S60" has been airbrushed from history. Like N-Gage, it never existed at all.: Sep 15 15:03:57 what do you mean DocScrutinizer Sep 15 15:04:05 doens't belong in #maemo ? Sep 15 15:04:46 RST38h, not really comparable Sep 15 15:07:20 Any ideas which one of the mapping apps can be preloaded with maps (besides ovi) Sep 15 15:07:29 mappero Sep 15 15:07:43 and sygic Sep 15 15:07:58 though if you want comprehensive maps from mappero you're going to need a boatload of disk space Sep 15 15:09:39 mappero was nice, last time I used it. But all the kings googling and all the kings men couldn't preload mappero again :/ Sep 15 15:09:43 Quite like the look of the E7 Sep 15 15:10:18 open mappero > options > maps > manage maps Sep 15 15:10:33 follow prompts to download maps using various options Sep 15 15:31:55 DocScrutinizer: do you know in what state the meego kernel for n900 is? Sep 15 15:32:05 MNZ, nice I've compiled it Sep 15 15:32:16 MNZ, now how can I use it? Sep 15 15:32:21 mrmoku: nope, not really Sep 15 15:32:24 k Sep 15 15:32:36 mrmoku: /join #meego-arm Sep 15 15:33:09 should have asked there, yes :P Sep 15 15:34:26 GNUtoo|laptop, sorry but I'm clueless. You will need the dspbridge kernel module though, don't think that's part of gst-dsp Sep 15 15:34:49 My guess is load dspbridge, then test using gst-launch Sep 15 15:34:57 ok Sep 15 15:35:20 no way to have that work automatically like: Sep 15 15:35:22 launch totem Sep 15 15:35:26 and it just works Sep 15 15:35:27 ? Sep 15 15:36:22 you are going to have to use the gst sinks it provides for decoding, how each player deals with creating a gst pipeline (is there a system default, etc) is another story, one that I don't know Sep 15 15:37:27 ok Sep 15 15:37:32 I'll try gst-launch then Sep 15 15:37:46 felipec wrote it Sep 15 15:38:11 but he's not there currently Sep 15 15:38:13 yep, and he just so happens to be a #maemo idler :D Sep 15 15:39:27 MohammadAG51: ping Sep 15 15:39:39 pong Sep 15 15:39:43 no idea of gst-launch commandline args Sep 15 15:39:45 ? Sep 15 15:39:54 I pushed the .so in the right location Sep 15 15:39:55 but then? Sep 15 15:40:06 I'll try decodebin2 Sep 15 15:41:16 you'll want "gst-launch filesrc location="/path/to/file" ! demuxer ! gst-dsp-decoder ! sink" Sep 15 15:41:39 where demuxer and gst-dsp-decoder are left as an exercise for the reader Sep 15 15:50:03 ok im gonna try and get help one more time before selling my n810 for parts, im pretty sure i bricked it hardcore, can anyone help? Sep 15 15:50:55 what did you do? Sep 15 15:52:55 ok found that: Sep 15 15:52:55 http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/gst-dsp Sep 15 15:53:15 thanks MNZ Sep 15 15:53:20 tried installing mamona and now i dont even get the nokia screen, its just dead Sep 15 15:53:43 the issue was that: Sep 15 15:53:45 gst-dsp-decoder Sep 15 15:53:52 I didn't know what one to use Sep 15 15:53:57 i hope thats not a generic problem Sep 15 15:53:58 I'll try the elinux howto Sep 15 15:54:03 (I know a bit gstreamer) Sep 15 15:54:26 frenchy, I assume you did discuss this with the manoma guys Sep 15 15:54:36 and ask if anyone else has experienced this? Sep 15 15:55:07 nobody answered in that channel, it seems pretty dead Sep 15 15:55:28 perhaps they tried installing manoma in the channel itself Sep 15 15:55:36 zing! Sep 15 15:55:40 this is like the 3rd time ive been in here about this, i just figured id try one more time before i sell it for parts Sep 15 15:56:00 well did you try it with a known charged battery? Sep 15 15:56:04 as suggested Sep 15 15:56:06 hello again people :) Sep 15 15:56:11 because if its totally not doing anything Sep 15 15:56:15 lcuk, yeah it was charged Sep 15 15:56:22 i know it *was* charged Sep 15 15:56:36 but battery meters lie and IDK what sort of chrging stuff it has Sep 15 15:56:41 and if it flattens battery etc Sep 15 15:56:54 so, like I said, have you tried it with a known charged valid battery? Sep 15 15:57:13 lcuk, well even if the battery is dead now shouldnt it at least do something when i plug it into the charger? Sep 15 15:57:25 IDK - you removed the OS and put something else on Sep 15 15:57:31 lcuk, i also tested the battery with a multimeter and it seems alive Sep 15 15:57:35 yeah Sep 15 15:57:44 i have 9volt batteries that wont run anything Sep 15 15:57:49 but i still get a shock on my tongue Sep 15 15:58:09 so I am guessing the answer to my question is "no" Sep 15 15:58:25 can some one guide me to compile latest ffmpeg from svn for N900 Sep 15 15:58:33 i suggest if you know someone with an n810 to borrow their working battery for a minute Sep 15 15:58:41 lcuk, well i have a new battery coming in the mail that i will test when it gets here but i am afraid i fried the bootloader and from what ive read it need s acold flash Sep 15 15:58:49 which is beyond my expertise Sep 15 15:59:04 well until you see some signs of life you dont know what it is Sep 15 15:59:23 frenchy: a silly question: what *is* mamona? Sep 15 15:59:27 lcuk, i dont know anyone with one, Sep 15 15:59:34 DocScrutinizer, just another distro Sep 15 15:59:58 dockane: distro from INdT Sep 15 16:00:05 oops Sep 15 16:00:30 DocScrutinizer, apparently, something openembedded based, http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/ Sep 15 16:00:53 wazzzd Sep 15 16:00:58 thnaks everybody Sep 15 16:02:07 im looking for contact info right now Sep 15 16:02:13 for mamon Sep 15 16:02:14 a Sep 15 16:03:02 everytime i talk to people about this they say its impossible to completely brick this device, has anyone heard of any accounts where the bootloader got hosed and killed the device? Sep 15 16:03:28 there is hardcoded bootloader in rom of cpu Sep 15 16:04:02 that can't be hosed Sep 15 16:04:03 This does not mean that it is impossible to brick from a consumer point of view. Sep 15 16:04:19 abuot mamona: Sep 15 16:04:21 #mamona Sep 15 16:04:28 The hardcoded bootloader as I understand it cannot be used to flash over USB Sep 15 16:04:49 i guess an EMP could hose the bootloader :p Sep 15 16:04:49 rm, it looks like modest didn't eat the email i moved Sep 15 16:04:58 jacekowski, ok so is it possible to brick it in such a way that the only way to recover is a cold flash? Sep 15 16:05:16 frenchy: Above comments relate to n900. Sorry - just scrolled up Sep 15 16:05:28 instead it lied to me about where it put it... Sep 15 16:06:36 blast those EMPs!! Sep 15 16:08:37 timeless, it caught up then? Sep 15 16:09:01 no Sep 15 16:09:08 i had tried to move one message Sep 15 16:09:47 raster: moinmoin :-) Sep 15 16:10:32 there's a folder picker, and you can go 'up' to the device level (above account) and create a folder. the folder ended up insideth Sep 15 16:10:40 the account Sep 15 16:10:51 this vkb sucks Sep 15 16:13:18 frenchy: jacekowski claims he did coldflash on N900 via USB. For N810 situation is unclear Sep 15 16:13:18 Every now and then alarmed fails to switch my profile. Is there anyway to troubleshoot this? Sep 15 16:13:55 DocScrutinizer, Yeah ive seen the n900 coldflash but cant find any info on the n810 doing it Sep 15 16:14:45 pyther: hmm, alarmed logs? running alarmed from terminal, or even check syslog etc for alarmd (!=alarmed) logs? Sep 15 16:15:31 how do people find events in a city? Sep 15 16:15:31 DocScrutinizer: how can I view syslog messages? Sep 15 16:16:08 pyther: apt-get install syslogd Sep 15 16:16:13 pyther: but it's broken Sep 15 16:16:17 cat /var/log/syslog Sep 15 16:16:25 pyther: You need to - after boot - killall -HUP syslodg Sep 15 16:16:27 gd Sep 15 16:16:30 depending on whether or not you installed syslogd, you'll either look into /var/log/* or do a dmesg Sep 15 16:16:41 as it puts the syslog in /home/user/var/log/syslogd Sep 15 16:16:52 and it puts it there before /home is mounted Sep 15 16:17:18 ok where can I find the alarmed log? Sep 15 16:17:22 it's always been sysklogd for me.. Sep 15 16:17:38 SpeedEvil: ouch Sep 15 16:17:56 pyther: no idea. ask Shapeshifter Sep 15 16:18:02 At least - I assume that's the iussue - I haven't investigated beyond killall -HuP fixing it Sep 15 16:19:08 hmm. I better not install syslog because I'll likey forget I'll have to do that Sep 15 16:21:00 DocScrutinizer: docz Sep 15 16:29:45 new sygic10 is pretty nice Sep 15 16:30:30 driving while listening to streaming internet radio with fm transmitter, the music pauses and voice directions come through car speakers, and then music resumes :) Sep 15 16:32:14 it's focus-stealing :( but not self-topping luckily.. still.. can't type outside sygic maps when it's running, and the keep-display-lit stopped working somewhere during the trip, possibly after lots of switching back and forth to media player.. Sep 15 16:34:01 Wow, the preorders for the N8 are apparently the best they've ever had for a device. Sep 15 16:34:19 I have to admit, I'm sort of tempted :D Sep 15 16:34:27 hope they don't fuck it up like n900 was.. Sep 15 16:34:28 :P Sep 15 16:34:51 lol yeah that was my first thought too Sep 15 16:35:03 The N900 was just too well advertised for its' own good .. Sep 15 16:35:25 I hope the N8 doesn't fail like the N97 and N96 :) Sep 15 16:35:57 * satmd waves Sep 15 16:35:57 N96 was fully deserved Sep 15 16:36:22 it was like N95 with enough RAM to actually boot the os successfully, aka N95-8G Sep 15 16:36:27 I got the N96 because on paper it looked like just an updated N95 8G Sep 15 16:36:38 except 200€ more expensive Sep 15 16:36:52 and a crappier slider Sep 15 16:36:53 oh it looked exactly like N95-8 on paper to me :) Sep 15 16:37:08 Except it has 16G and a micro SD Sep 15 16:37:12 N95 was a low-res brick Sep 15 16:37:14 Oh, and DVB-H Sep 15 16:37:19 N96 was another ow-res brick Sep 15 16:37:29 the N95 was nice tbh Sep 15 16:37:41 The N95 8 was the best phone I've ever had. Sep 15 16:37:42 No idea why everyone is still considering them "good" Sep 15 16:37:43 I still think it's the best nokia phone Sep 15 16:37:50 I'd still gladly use it today. Sep 15 16:38:04 I still do Sep 15 16:38:12 sometimes to charge my N900's battery Sep 15 16:38:14 E70 has been the best S60 phone ever Sep 15 16:38:28 my Sep 15 16:38:31 if I had to use a symbian phone I'd go back to N810 :) Sep 15 16:38:33 Actually looked and felt like a PHONE. Had the best keyboard ever. Sep 15 16:38:48 anyone here from germany that uses supl.google.com instead of supl.nokia.com? Sep 15 16:38:53 I really really liked my e90 Sep 15 16:38:56 hmm Sep 15 16:38:58 is it better / does it work at all? Sep 15 16:39:00 alterego, actually Sep 15 16:39:05 i thought supl.google.com was dead Sep 15 16:39:14 mh Sep 15 16:39:18 doesn't the N96 lack the gfx chip the N95 had? Sep 15 16:39:35 actually i'm looking for an alternative to supl.nokia.com in germany because it doesn't work that well... Sep 15 16:39:36 MohammadAG51: erm, no, it has the same chip Sep 15 16:39:39 any tips? Sep 15 16:39:47 steinex: supl.google.com Sep 15 16:39:47 alterego, sure? Sep 15 16:39:52 wasn't it removed Sep 15 16:39:55 i remember it was Sep 15 16:40:07 Maybe I'm wrong, I thought it was the same. Sep 15 16:40:14 Could have been removed in the N97? Sep 15 16:40:17 the N96 was also dual core afaik Sep 15 16:40:26 i think they only released drivers for n95 Sep 15 16:40:41 not sure, but i remember the N96 lacked something huge the N95 had Sep 15 16:40:51 the N95 was sold with the accelerometer hidden xD Sep 15 16:40:58 came to us all as a surprise Sep 15 16:41:09 V20 i think Sep 15 16:42:54 Hrm Sep 15 16:45:56 hello Sep 15 16:45:58 can some one guide me to compile latest ffmpeg from svn for N900 Sep 15 16:48:10 Nandan: that way -> http://maemo.org/development/ Sep 15 16:48:22 thanks Sep 15 16:48:51 np Sep 15 16:49:03 supl.google.com doesn't seem to work Sep 15 16:49:06 no idea why. Sep 15 16:49:16 Oh, maybe that's not it. Sep 15 16:56:46 re Sep 15 16:58:04 FWIW, Stphen Elop - the new CEO - seemed nice and enthusiastic in his few words. Sep 15 16:58:24 Short question: Is FrozenBubble2 optified?n Sep 15 16:58:41 Jaffa: Don't they all... Sep 15 16:59:00 RST38h: OPK never did! Sep 15 16:59:13 alterego, by a Symbian device? Sep 15 16:59:40 Jaffa: Ah, but he was a Finn! Sep 15 17:00:11 Jaffa: On the other hand, I fully subscribe to the Arkenoi's analysis of the situation :) Sep 15 17:00:18 RST38h: So are most of the Nokia exec team :) Sep 15 17:00:23 RST38h: Oh? Sep 15 17:01:47 Jaffa: "Another martyr getting a handle-less briefcase labelled 'dumbshit Symbian' and being forced to carry it on and never EVER throw it away." Sep 15 17:02:43 GAN900: do you mean "buy a symbian device"? Sep 15 17:02:48 Jaffa: "Which, lacking balls, he is going to carry on and on and on" Sep 15 17:03:55 alterego, in respone to "sort of tempted". Sep 15 17:04:01 alterego, don't try to confuse me! Sep 15 17:05:28 GAN900: yes, I'm sort of tempted to buy the N8 Sep 15 17:15:20 any hint about supl.google.com? Sep 15 17:15:27 i'm clueless :/ Sep 15 17:20:30 there was a package that could change default media player when tap on a media file in file manager Sep 15 17:21:08 but i cant remind the package name Sep 15 17:22:56 Is there a gps speed monitor that does NOT require an internet connection? Sep 15 17:27:42 Hey ho Sep 15 17:29:10 pyther: yes Sep 15 17:29:14 pyther: any of them Sep 15 17:29:22 pyther: just click no when it asks Sep 15 17:29:27 pyther: it will take a lot longer to get a lock Sep 15 17:30:31 jacekowski: ok, I wonder if it forgets the gps data when I reboot Sep 15 17:30:45 yep Sep 15 17:31:04 basicaly it will take ages to get a lock without internet Sep 15 17:31:21 ok Sep 15 17:31:33 not true Sep 15 17:31:38 UK ISPs To Pay 25% of Copyright Enforcement Costs <== ahahaha Sep 15 17:31:39 now it would be also nice to prevent jspeed from asking every 30 minutes, but I can live with that Sep 15 17:31:45 but it will take 20 secs - 20 minutes Sep 15 17:32:32 I let it sit for over 15 minutes without getting a lock Sep 15 17:32:50 well, it has to be outside Sep 15 17:32:59 with clear view Sep 15 17:33:06 we were moving Sep 15 17:33:10 that was probably the problem Sep 15 17:33:14 that too Sep 15 17:45:26 Hi Sep 15 17:50:37 Hi Sep 15 17:50:43 bergie, Ping? Sep 15 17:50:51 X-Fade, Ping? Sep 15 17:51:01 * timeless finds friendly wifi at a bar-cafe Sep 15 17:51:07 hi dneary Sep 15 17:51:11 dneary: pong Sep 15 17:51:17 * timeless waves from edinburgh Sep 15 17:52:07 bergie, I'm trying to send out election tokens for the election that's starting in 6 hours Sep 15 17:52:10 timeless: back at work? Sep 15 17:52:23 bergie, And test.maemo.org doesn't have an smtp server Sep 15 17:52:30 ah, fun Sep 15 17:52:34 Can you remember how we sent them out last time? Sep 15 17:52:43 no! Sep 15 17:53:05 timeless: Nokia guys seem to have long holiday! Sep 15 17:53:08 dneary: from "maintenance" would sound logical Sep 15 17:53:09 three another two plus weeks of vacation Sep 15 17:53:13 4 weeks Sep 15 17:53:21 it's standard for europe Sep 15 17:53:22 timeless: wowwwwwwwwwwwww! Sep 15 17:53:54 trumee, In France, 5 weeks is normal. 6 weeks is not unusual. For the year, that is Sep 15 17:54:35 trumee, People tend to take 3 weeks during the Summer, 1 week for skiing, a few days for Christmas, a few days for Easter, a few days around the end of October Sep 15 17:54:51 And the rest spread over the year Sep 15 17:55:08 bergie, I don't think I have access to maintenance Sep 15 17:55:21 bergie, But I'm sure I was the one who sent the emails last time Sep 15 17:55:23 dneary: and for the rest frenchies go on a strike :p Sep 15 17:55:33 trumee, Nah, that's a myth Sep 15 17:55:45 There's generally only about 5 or 6 big strikes a year Sep 15 17:55:57 yeah, in finland it's 4summer weeks (preferably as a lump) and one winter Sep 15 17:56:04 And they're generally not very popular Sep 15 17:56:09 dneary: hmm, then you've probably been given access to some of the other ones. maemo1/2? Sep 15 17:56:24 bergie, I *thought* I'd sent them from test Sep 15 17:57:04 well, theoretically the ISP could've removed SMTP service from that box Sep 15 17:57:05 Yup, I did... I see a nohup.out from Mar 23 Sep 15 17:57:24 Let me just see if there was something tricky going on Sep 15 17:57:58 Yeah - I think Bergie installed exim for me last year Sep 15 17:58:03 It must not be started Sep 15 17:58:14 And I don't believe I'm an sudoer on that machine Sep 15 17:59:24 dneary: wasn't me, I don't have sudo on that box either Sep 15 17:59:48 bleep Sep 15 18:04:53 hey bergie dneary \o Sep 15 18:05:44 hi lcuk Sep 15 18:06:04 "too drunk to lcuk" Sep 15 18:06:20 * timeless smiles, vbox people fixed a bug i filed Sep 15 18:06:26 * lcuk stonecoldsober Sep 15 18:06:43 cold being operative, its brass monkeys here today Sep 15 18:07:59 dneary, did the meeting get arranged then? Sep 15 18:08:03 hehe Sep 15 18:08:15 lcuk, yes, tomorrow, noon utc Sep 15 18:08:35 reasonable enough Sep 15 18:08:36 grrr.. hmmm my eeepc powerbi=rick came back ti life today...hmmm Sep 15 18:09:24 lol that's kinda weird, i thought it made a pop Sep 15 18:09:32 it did Sep 15 18:09:37 or something did Sep 15 18:09:59 well it's probably still safer than those fake batteries Sep 15 18:10:07 unless it just had a lowd thermal cut out Sep 15 18:10:12 loud Sep 15 18:10:26 fake batteries? Sep 15 18:10:44 yesterday there was some guy in there wanting to buy fake n900 batteries from ebay Sep 15 18:10:51 didn't belive there could be any danger Sep 15 18:10:52 lol Sep 15 18:11:06 boom! Sep 15 18:11:26 * crashanddie waves at the doomsdayers Sep 15 18:11:31 yeah... it's pretty rare, but nokia and other phone manuafcturers always claim that the only batteries that blow up are the fake ones Sep 15 18:11:39 my buddie hadd a samsung go thermal in his back pocket lastweek Sep 15 18:11:41 you do realise that plenty of people have bought cheapo batteries off ebay and had no issues with them? Sep 15 18:11:51 (except for the fact they hold a charge for about 20.3 seconds) Sep 15 18:12:11 haha Sep 15 18:12:29 dneary, was there any further discussion about the maemo.org stuff? I knoew bergie is giving a talk about this very subject in a couple of weeks Sep 15 18:12:52 lcuk, Help me out... which stuff? And which talk? Sep 15 18:12:53 i got prob fake batteries in my motorola and it charges normaly and lasts a few days Sep 15 18:13:30 yes lol, i just feel the need to warn people that they aren't safe since li-ion batteries are unstable to begin with, any manufacturing defect or parts they skipped to save a penny will increase the chance of violent failure Sep 15 18:13:34 i should pack up and go home Sep 15 18:13:53 i Sep 15 18:13:55 dneary, the maemo.org app store stuff I tried to bring up at last meeting and then sent over the notes for about the potential for people to actually work on it in this sprint Sep 15 18:13:57 bergie, Am I stuck, then? Sep 15 18:14:05 i'd still buy them myself, just refuse to recommend it Sep 15 18:14:06 http://opensolutions.coss.fi/ohjelma.html Sep 15 18:14:14 lcuk, Ah - did you ever get any answer from X-Fade? Sep 15 18:14:15 bergie has a talk scheduled about it here Sep 15 18:14:17 no Sep 15 18:14:24 dneary, clearly a conspiracy to end the council. Sep 15 18:14:38 * dneary no speaky fiinjhliish Sep 15 18:14:50 Maemo.org Downloads - Building an open community "app store" Sep 15 18:14:50 - Crowdsourced quality assurance and development of comprehensive web services using an open source model. Sep 15 18:14:50 Henri Bergius, Sep 15 18:14:50 Consultant Partner, CEO, Sep 15 18:14:50 Nemein Oy Sep 15 18:15:01 English Sep 15 18:15:27 22. when making a time input widget that supports 12hour format and lists am or pm, do *not* hide changing am/pm behind a menu (!) (this might be an s40 feature) Sep 15 18:16:34 sp3000: about:plugins fix no-workee? :( Sep 15 18:17:14 sp3000: wfm Sep 15 18:17:48 lcuk, I remember opening that page and saying "I can't understand this" Sep 15 18:17:54 lcuk: Unicorn Bacon to be included in next release of Firefox! http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1788284&cid=33588874 Sep 15 18:17:54 I missed the English translation Sep 15 18:18:00 BACON Sep 15 18:18:08 kerio: UNICORN BACON Sep 15 18:18:16 thats not english translation, its on the page I just linked to Sep 15 18:18:16 even more awesome Sep 15 18:18:25 either way Sep 15 18:19:03 lcuk, Interesting, in that context, to see the MeeGo compliance discussion Sep 15 18:19:26 this has nothing to do with meego? Sep 15 18:19:34 lcuk, Yeah - a bit far down the page (and, unless I'm mistaken, the first entry on the page in English) for me to browse to Sep 15 18:20:08 bergie retweeted it a few days ago Sep 15 18:20:25 lcuk, I'm just saying: the MeeGo discussion is showing up a couple of things which people see as true for an app store unquestioningly Sep 15 18:20:32 but anyway, can it be brought up in the meeting - since obviously theres "something" happening Sep 15 18:20:57 lcuk, Please do - like I said, Henri & X-Fade are the guys to talk to Sep 15 18:21:12 well bergie just vanished Sep 15 18:21:38 lcuk: still here Sep 15 18:21:43 :D Sep 15 18:22:06 just went out for a smoke :-) Sep 15 18:22:18 dneary: unfortunately we need someone with better access Sep 15 18:22:26 bergie, your talk, is it just field notes, or would you want to follow up with an implementation? Sep 15 18:22:38  Sep 15 18:22:54 i will fwd you the mail I sent to dneary and X-Fade Sep 15 18:23:05 it has some thoughts about the device end Sep 15 18:23:15 and how we have some of the pieces already in place Sep 15 18:23:29 lcuk: great, thanks Sep 15 18:24:47 bergie, mail addr? Sep 15 18:24:57 um Sep 15 18:25:15 anyone hear of an "Indian" pr1.2 image? Sep 15 18:25:32 lcuk: bergie@nemein.com Sep 15 18:25:32 further, anyone have the ability to get and flash it? Sep 15 18:25:57 timeless, hm similar to the HK I guess? Sep 15 18:25:58 timeless: skypeless Sep 15 18:26:26 stskeeps: ? Sep 15 18:26:44 * timeless turns on skype Sep 15 18:26:52 timeless, i just asked it might be tomorrow before I get a response though Sep 15 18:27:05 sorry, i'm mostly squating for power to my starving phone Sep 15 18:28:07 timeless: indian is without skype, afaik Sep 15 18:28:16 k bergie mailed Sep 15 18:28:47 stskeeps: sweet Sep 15 18:29:01 lcuk: are you doing bugs.maemo triage? Sep 15 18:29:44 no i am drinking a brew atm Sep 15 18:29:59 hi mlfoster Sep 15 18:32:11 bergie, shall have to sync smoking times again soon \o Sep 15 18:39:11 hey all, quick question Sep 15 18:39:26 why is apt-get wanting to remove mp-freemantle-203-pr in order to install libsdl-mixer1.2 ? Sep 15 18:40:16 presumably there's a conflict Sep 15 18:40:42 it's probably trying to update a package that's version pinned Sep 15 18:40:59 I understand that mp-fremantle-203-pr is just a metapackage, does this mean its safe to remove? Sep 15 18:41:06 or should I hold fire on updating sdl mixer? Sep 15 18:41:31 it's a version pinning meta package Sep 15 18:41:32 PhonicUK: it's just a metapackage Sep 15 18:41:43 and it's not very likely that we'll have a new PR anyway Sep 15 18:41:44 okay Sep 15 18:41:44 which iiuc is used to manage system updates Sep 15 18:41:46 and you can just reflash Sep 15 18:41:54 kerio: err Sep 15 18:42:07 not that i can actually promise such a thing Sep 15 18:42:10 so is it okay to remove it and let it update everything to later versions? Sep 15 18:42:14 PhonicUK: yeah Sep 15 18:42:19 but we're definitely updating ota Sep 15 18:42:25 but you'll break SSU Sep 15 18:42:30 and iirc we did announce plans for another Sep 15 18:42:31 SSU? Sep 15 18:42:39 so you'll probably have to reflash in order to update the OS Sep 15 18:42:44 which is good anyway Sep 15 18:42:44 ah Sep 15 18:42:55 I reflash anyway for new PR releases Sep 15 18:43:14 if you always reflash, then killing that package is fine Sep 15 18:43:26 okay Sep 15 18:43:42 i thought there was a non-version-pinning... version Sep 15 18:43:46 of metapackages Sep 15 18:44:03 kerio: i'm not quite sure how that'd work Sep 15 18:44:15 \o/ Sep 15 18:44:18 no idea Sep 15 18:44:18 the set of packages we're going to ship will change Sep 15 18:44:43 thus a package that merely says "take the latest of this list of packages" Sep 15 18:44:55 *will* do the *wrong* thing TM Sep 15 18:46:12 don't you mean ™ Sep 15 18:46:15 * Noobmonk3y blinks Sep 15 18:46:35 UTF8 MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SUPPORT IT Sep 15 18:46:44 * Noobmonk3y blonks Sep 15 18:47:11 DESCRIBE WHAT SNOWMAN (U+2603) LOOKS LIKE Sep 15 18:48:02 kerio: that's the second caps warning you're triggering Sep 15 18:48:19 Ah just kill him off... Sep 15 18:48:20 that's yelled in the movie ._. Sep 15 18:48:28 * Noobmonk3y prods lcuk, MohammadAG51 , frals , evening alls :) Sep 15 18:50:01 ☃ Sep 15 18:50:13 dneary, bergie heres minutes from the last meeting when I proposed it (but jaffa said was impractical) Sep 15 18:50:14 http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2010-05-17.html#t15:31 Sep 15 18:50:29 i'm still baffled by the existance of a snowman glyph in unicode btw Sep 15 18:51:11 lcuk, the shopping basket idea? he didnt ignore it, just went ok? Sep 15 18:51:32 morning Sep 15 18:51:32 good idea though :P Sep 15 18:51:50 is there any last.fm scrobbler for the default music playr ? Sep 15 18:51:58 kerio.... dont be baffled just agree and carry on :P Sep 15 18:52:02 s/yr/er/ Sep 15 18:52:02 soltys meant: is there any last.fm scrobbler for the default music plaer ? Sep 15 18:52:08 damn Sep 15 18:52:25 a/aer/ayer/ Sep 15 18:52:42 it's not my day Sep 15 18:52:53 soltys: syntax error ;) Sep 15 18:53:01 ;) Sep 15 18:53:50 you can only s/// the last non s/// line anyway Sep 15 18:53:59 so your curse would have foiled you Sep 15 18:54:05 * timeless leaves Sep 15 18:54:18 timeless: i know that.. ;) Sep 15 18:59:51 aaaand time for a trip to zzzland Sep 15 19:00:04 so long folks! Sep 15 19:04:23 hi, how do I boot my own kernel? Sep 15 19:07:12 spit it out, kick it Sep 15 19:12:38 oops I forgott the details Sep 15 19:12:48 sorry(I'm very tired) Sep 15 19:12:49 so... Sep 15 19:12:53 I tried multiboot Sep 15 19:13:03 and it say that it didn't found the kenrel Sep 15 19:13:12 I've named the entry and the kernel after uname -r Sep 15 19:13:36 vmlinuz-$(uname -r) for the kenrel image in /boot/multiboot/ Sep 15 19:13:52 $(uname -r) beeing the uname -r of the new booted kenrel Sep 15 19:14:03 I can boot it flashing it directly Sep 15 19:14:09 but I'd like multiboot to work Sep 15 19:14:18 also I was able to get console with multiboot Sep 15 19:14:23 and the kernel was there Sep 15 19:14:35 Same Sep 15 19:14:51 roombacat, you've the same issue? Sep 15 19:21:03 too long ago GNUtoo|laptop - you need to find someone with a n900 Sep 15 19:21:15 ok Sep 15 19:21:25 maybe #meego-arm Sep 15 19:27:43 ahem Sep 15 19:27:46 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62312 Sep 15 19:27:52 announce] swappolube to lubricate your gui Sep 15 19:28:04 up for testing Sep 15 19:28:12 its a little set of tweaks Sep 15 19:28:37 interesting Sep 15 19:29:52 I wonder about an icky hack. Sep 15 19:30:07 You want 1G of swap - say. Sep 15 19:30:19 You want to keep it reasonably non-fragmented. Sep 15 19:31:05 so, you setup 10 swapfiles of 100M each, and then when you detect that one is very fragmented, you swapoff it Sep 15 19:31:10 s/10/15/ Sep 15 19:31:11 SpeedEvil meant: so, you setup 15 swapfiles of 100M each, and then when you detect that one is very fragmented, you swapoff it Sep 15 19:31:20 and wind up page_cluster Sep 15 19:39:51 I thought fragmentation was a non-issue on flash? Sep 15 19:42:34 crashanddie: any luck testing with my pbx? Sep 15 19:42:55 well, sadly exactly as you predicted Sep 15 19:43:15 crashanddie: so choppy in a couple of minutes? Sep 15 19:43:21 major cut-outs, and robot voice every now and then, pretty much unusable Sep 15 19:43:36 well, the first drastic quality drop is about 3-4 minutes into the call, so it seems Sep 15 19:43:46 but then the quality remains roughly the same (or as crappy?) Sep 15 19:44:12 I did notice that forcing the screen to remain lit by browsing menus could "wake up" the call though Sep 15 19:44:26 crashanddie: yes. the only workaround is to Hold Call >Activate call. Then the choppiness goes away for some time Sep 15 19:44:53 so it's some kind of CPU going to sleep mode? Sep 15 19:45:09 s/CPU going to sleep mode/CPU-going-to-sleep-mode issue/ Sep 15 19:45:09 crashanddie meant: so it's some kind of CPU-going-to-sleep-mode issue? Sep 15 19:45:23 crashanddie: No i dont think it is a cpu issue. rather it is a gstreamer issue Sep 15 19:45:24 crashanddie: read fragmentation is pretty much a non-issue. Sep 15 19:45:37 ruskie: would you mind rebuilding the urxvt in your repo with perl support? Sep 15 19:45:43 crashanddie: you run a pbx as well? Sep 15 19:46:07 crashanddie: Write fragmentation is. The real 'blocks' on flash are ~130K or so eraseblocks. If you partially write an eraseblock, then the flash has to copy the previous contents over to a new block. Sep 15 19:46:24 crashanddie: If you use any desktop sip client or even Nokia N95, call is perfect. Sep 15 19:46:25 crashanddie: This can mean performance going from megabytes/s to dozens of kilobytes/s Sep 15 19:47:46 trumee: yeah, call was fine from my server to yours Sep 15 19:47:56 SpeedEvil: fair enough Sep 15 19:48:31 crashanddie: what do you mean call was fine, how did you check that? Sep 15 19:48:42 trumee: I'm a developer on a SIP server for corporate hotlines Sep 15 19:49:30 crashanddie: ah. Your are the man then. Collabora dev thinks it is a jitter issue in gstreamer Sep 15 19:49:57 trumee: well, I have access to call stats when calling with my server; amongst other things the rdcp info. Hardly any packet drop from your server nor latency issues Sep 15 19:50:06 rtcp** Sep 15 19:50:10 crashanddie: if you have any comments could you please add it to bug #10388 Sep 15 19:50:11 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? Sep 15 19:51:53 crashanddie: the number you called is actually a remote pjsip server. Your call was like this you<>my freeswitch pbx<>remote pjsip server Sep 15 19:52:36 trumee: and my server is: my desktop phone -> phone line -> audiocode -> my server -> sip to your freeswitch Sep 15 19:52:53 (as opposed to n900 -> freeswitch) Sep 15 19:54:04 crashanddie: is it possible to check on N900 itself whether there is any latency issues? Sep 15 19:54:50 I guess I could n900 -> my server to see what is happening, I could also piggyback the call on my server to compare the two outputs Sep 15 19:55:54 as in, I can singleplex myself into a conference where the n900 and your freeswitch are having a chat, and listen to the difference in quality Sep 15 19:56:21 though that wouldn't be before monday most probably Sep 15 19:56:21 crashanddie: ah i see. it will be useful. Sep 15 19:56:56 crashanddie: if you want i could connect the pjsip server directly to your pbx. that could be an extra test. Sep 15 19:57:38 or I can play an audiobook on my server directly Sep 15 19:58:10 crashanddie: audiobook on your server wont be real test since everything will be on the same network. Sep 15 19:58:30 crashanddie: But your conference call sounds like a good idea Sep 15 19:58:56 crashanddie: i will keep the server alive and you can test it on Monday. Sep 15 19:59:10 will do Sep 15 20:01:01 crashanddie: btw did you test with PSM off? Sep 15 20:06:40 Teeheehe, it's star buck! Sep 15 20:16:38 any idea if there is a wpa_supplicant somwhere for maemo5? i'd like to connect to a wpa encrypted network Sep 15 20:17:09 The stock client will do WPA Sep 15 20:17:18 Simply setup your passphrase in the UI Sep 15 20:18:02 the GUI can only connect to one network at once Sep 15 20:18:58 yes. Sep 15 20:19:11 Unfortunately there isn't a nice way of connecting to two. Sep 15 20:19:36 well, it would have to be on same channel Sep 15 20:19:46 and i'm not sure if n900 wifi card can do it anyways Sep 15 20:19:59 umts and wifi at the same time should work Sep 15 20:20:11 I'm assuming he's (or she, or it) is meaning phone and wifi Sep 15 20:20:12 yeah Sep 15 20:20:17 or they. Sep 15 20:20:25 I keep forgetting communal intelligences. Sep 15 20:20:34 heh Sep 15 20:20:51 well, the gui thing doesnt seem to use any tool i know Sep 15 20:20:55 at least none of them are installed Sep 15 20:21:07 It doesn't. Sep 15 20:21:27 icd and wlancond handle connections. Sep 15 20:22:23 well, any manpage somewhere? Sep 15 20:22:33 or should i just ... give up? Sep 15 20:22:33 No. Sep 15 20:22:41 wlancond is somewhat opensource. Sep 15 20:22:52 Who can remind me who was bemoaning this last night. Sep 15 20:23:23 err well ... doesnt look like this is intended to be _used_ Sep 15 20:23:43 Ah yes. Sep 15 20:23:49 ShadSEC Sep 15 20:23:52 Who isn't here now Sep 15 20:23:59 What're you trying to do Sep 15 20:24:06 doesnt seem to react on command line arguments Sep 15 20:24:20 Bridge wifi to 3G in wifi-client mode on the n900? Sep 15 20:24:25 It doesn't Sep 15 20:24:30 nah, forward Sep 15 20:24:35 bridging wont do any good Sep 15 20:24:50 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/source/osso-wlan/dbus-handler.c Sep 15 20:24:51 usb to gsm i got working Sep 15 20:24:54 but the cable is annoying Sep 15 20:24:56 yeah - bridging in the loosest senser Sep 15 20:25:14 err... what is this? Sep 15 20:25:15 There is a stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid solution in principle. Sep 15 20:25:53 ssh root@phone pnatd|pppd Sep 15 20:25:55 sort-of Sep 15 20:25:56 great code Sep 15 20:26:02 * aep backs of Sep 15 20:26:17 hey thats not even that stupid Sep 15 20:26:46 I don't know how to get that pipe bidirectional, I haver forgotten themissing link Sep 15 20:27:08 not this way, but the general idea would work Sep 15 20:27:14 Also - I haven't tested it beyond pnatd actually giving a response that looked like ppp sync after doing the #99 thing Sep 15 20:27:51 LOL @nokia Sep 15 20:27:55 (twitter) Sep 15 20:28:48 SpeedEvil: i'll research on that idea. thanks Sep 15 20:39:02 anyone know where to get skype? oO Sep 15 20:43:02 ok, i'm sick of this shit Sep 15 20:43:51 :D Sep 15 20:43:56 :) Sep 15 20:46:48 * Myrtti hands crashanddie a metallic pink starburst seal of approval Sep 15 20:46:57 Tott3[AEX] you probably have to flash a different firmware to your n900 if it's not installed Sep 15 20:47:07 he doesn't look very indian from here Sep 15 20:47:10 Point them at the global firmware? Sep 15 20:47:11 whadidhedo? Sep 15 20:47:11 nvm found it Sep 15 20:47:16 haha Sep 15 20:47:43 RST38bis: the last bit in the topic Sep 15 20:48:27 ah how queer Sep 15 20:48:49 hey does anyone know how "Crash reporter" works? i installed it a while ago and it never pops up anything until theres 10 duplicate core dumps or whatever, then says its overwriting them. i see its options have "upload crash reports" disabled by default. which seems dumb. so if i turn that on, where does it send them? Sep 15 20:49:09 CreamyG, Nokia. Sep 15 20:49:28 * Myrtti sets out to do her animated GIF version of the seal Sep 15 20:50:20 okay, i hope they enjoy their 10 intellisyncd dumps Sep 15 20:50:57 and by enjoy, i mean fix the damn thing so it doesn't crash ten times a day Sep 15 20:51:10 * RST38bis wonders if skype will ever be fixed on the n900 Sep 15 20:51:18 prolly not :( Sep 15 20:51:48 skype sucks anyway Sep 15 20:52:31 it's good for indians apparently Sep 15 20:53:15 lol sending crash report 11/85 Sep 15 20:53:19 sweet phone, this is Sep 15 20:54:38 RST38bis what you mean by ever be fixed? Sep 15 20:55:05 Theres a thread on TMO at the moment which is looking for the good experiences long term users have had over the years with maemo Sep 15 20:55:11 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=817191#post817191 Sep 15 20:55:57 GAN900, and RST38bis and Jaffa and andre__ and X-Fade and anyone else who wants to say something about their positive experiences, please do! :) Sep 15 20:56:23 some lovely comments so far Sep 15 20:56:26 Their most recent tool in the fight against internet memes is this public safety information bulletin entitled: "An Introduction to PEDO BEAR." Sep 15 20:56:51 wazd moo Sep 15 20:56:55 sigh Sep 15 20:57:01 "I always loved the helpful, friendly vibe. Developers, friendly banter, developers and good laughs." Sep 15 20:57:05 positive experience? with what? :-P Sep 15 20:57:08 wouldv been more along the lines what I am thinking Sep 15 20:57:21 of come on andre__ :P even GAN900 smiles sometimes! Sep 15 20:57:51 hey, I try to also become a poisonous community member! I can't suddenly add positive comments! :-P Sep 15 20:58:11 andre__, then make your own thread :P Sep 15 20:58:22 this one is about the things that have gone right! Sep 15 20:58:22 lcuk: nah, not gonna spend time on that, no point Sep 15 20:58:39 theres no point to anything Sep 15 20:58:52 well, has anything gone right in Maemo, really? Sep 15 20:59:24 read the thread Sep 15 20:59:27 people seem to think so Sep 15 21:00:08 lcuk, done. you're welcome ;-) Sep 15 21:00:16 maemo has introduced many people to linux Sep 15 21:00:31 ubuntu even more. ;-) Sep 15 21:00:40 lcuk: so what is the point of this thread? is it supposed to make me feel all warm inside or what? Sep 15 21:01:19 andre__ ubuntu never replaced my windows, maemo I bought a device and it didnt have windows, so I had to learn it Sep 15 21:01:26 RST38bis, no, its just another topic Sep 15 21:01:38 hm. Sep 15 21:01:40 the talk in talk.marmo.org is upto us what the topics are Sep 15 21:01:45 so I thought I might try a positive one Sep 15 21:03:03 marmo o_O Sep 15 21:03:30 RST38bis, did you have a 770? Sep 15 21:04:39 andre__: you're a student? Sep 15 21:05:59 crashanddie, yes Sep 15 21:06:06 damn Sep 15 21:06:32 nah, it's not that bad actually :-P Sep 15 21:06:48 Because when I grow up, I want to become $something. Sep 15 21:06:54 guys, anyone tried android yet on the n810? Sep 15 21:07:12 I thought you were like a 30yo dude or summing Sep 15 21:07:29 why are the same bloody questions coming up 24/7? Sep 15 21:08:32 crashanddie, how is your search tool getting on? or have you not had time? Sep 15 21:08:41 not working on it at all Sep 15 21:08:43 crashanddie: nope, still not 30... but that wouldn't exclude student status either... :) Sep 15 21:09:01 could you push what you did do? Sep 15 21:09:11 I could Sep 15 21:09:43 I really like how the N900 maintains seperate internet connections for the phone and a tethered computer. Sep 15 21:09:46 But anyone who understands Qt and can do a select in SQL is at the same point as I Sep 15 21:09:49 It's funky :) Sep 15 21:09:59 And bluetooth Sep 15 21:09:59 lcuk: nah, I did not Sep 15 21:10:07 except I don't understand Qt Sep 15 21:10:25 lcuk: I'll release a search lib end of next week, how's that? Sep 15 21:10:41 crashanddie, just put your knowledge in a post, if nothing happens, so what, but someone might use it to learn from Sep 15 21:10:45 thats cool Sep 15 21:10:52 lcuk: then you just convince khertan to make a UI for it Sep 15 21:10:55 RST38bis, what was your first? Sep 15 21:10:58 no crashanddie Sep 15 21:11:07 we convince khertan and others to read the thread Sep 15 21:11:12 theres more in the community than just him! Sep 15 21:11:30 lcuk: n810 Sep 15 21:11:54 RST38bis, was that because you just found out about them, or did you want a keyboard? Sep 15 21:12:34 A UI For what? I've got some spare time and Qt skillz ;) Sep 15 21:13:05 lcuk: nokia had a developer discount, I applied, ported my stuff to it Sep 15 21:13:13 * lcuk nods Sep 15 21:13:29 alterego: we want to use the conversation UI to display search results Sep 15 21:13:40 alterego: search would work on conversations mainly (sms and IM) Sep 15 21:13:48 Hrm Sep 15 21:13:59 alterego: conversation UI framework is there, and callable, just not documented Sep 15 21:14:11 Hrm, cool. Sep 15 21:14:34 So you have the ability to open a chat window with a specific message in view? Sep 15 21:14:45 pretty much Sep 15 21:14:51 Nice Sep 15 21:15:00 Well, do a UI mockup and I'll have a go Sep 15 21:15:25 I want to get this injection driver out first Sep 15 21:15:29 so that'll be tomorrow Sep 15 21:15:36 as I said, I'll work on it next week Sep 15 21:15:37 Okay, well, you know where to find me ;) Sep 15 21:16:58 Khertan_: ping Sep 15 21:17:04 Khertan_: what's pypackager? Sep 15 21:25:05 heh, i've spent the last two days listening to intel talk about meego Sep 15 21:25:23 crashanddie, pypackager is khertans package to package python apps Sep 15 21:25:42 http://maemo.org/packages/view/pypackager/ Sep 15 21:25:51 hmm Sep 15 21:26:42 hey crashanddie, are you working on that mobile backtrack thing? Sep 15 21:36:27 CreamyG: not directly Sep 15 21:37:03 CreamyG: I got hold of the drivers, and have been working with some people to see how they worked exactly Sep 15 21:37:51 working on packaging a single .deb which will load the injection drivers into the kernel when needed Sep 15 21:39:11 cool, that will be fun to play with. i hope they release a public beta or at least lower the donation requirement... Sep 15 21:40:04 or are you saying the drivers will be for the standard os/kernel when you're done? Sep 15 21:40:12 yeah Sep 15 21:40:24 well, you'll just need to install a modified power kernel Sep 15 21:40:30 oooh even better then. dual booting is cool and all, but its nice to be able to receive calls :) Sep 15 21:41:12 there's no dual booting with neopwn Sep 15 21:41:37 it's a chroot, meaning you just click on an icon and it launches the app Sep 15 21:41:45 you just eat plenty of RAM Sep 15 21:42:20 oh okay, i assumed it was a whole OS. Sep 15 21:42:39 well, it's just an OS that runs on top of Maemo Sep 15 21:42:44 just like easydebian, for example Sep 15 21:43:00 (neopwn is based on easydebian, AFAICT) Sep 15 21:43:49 well i should just try it some time, but last i saw they wanted $20 Sep 15 21:44:01 thing is Sep 15 21:44:13 asking money for someone to be included in a beta isn't a donation Sep 15 21:44:17 it's a fee. A purchase. Sep 15 21:46:46 yeah. well i dunno if that's good or bad, but i just don't wanna pay more than $5 for something in beta Sep 15 21:46:57 It's bad Sep 15 21:47:08 which is why I'm releasing the driver Sep 15 21:51:49 i'd be okay with it if it was $5, but more than that i worry that the coder may just quit and keep the money. anyways i should probalby get back to work, or i can't really judge people if i'm getting paid to do nothing all day lol Sep 15 21:52:49 * CreamyG goes to make coffee Sep 15 21:52:51 You should work for the french government Sep 15 21:53:06 now there's people who have graduated into getting paychecks for doing utterly nothing Sep 15 21:53:33 haha dude if this chan wasn't logged, i'd say which i work for lol... Sep 15 21:53:59 * MohammadAG51 kicks povbot Sep 15 21:54:40 CreamyG: from what I can tell, you work for the Edmonton, Canada mayor's office. Sep 15 21:54:43 of course i won't have found this chan if every google search for some build error didn't lead here Sep 15 21:54:53 crashanddie, i hate to break it to you, but how do you know that the binary you are about to distribute is based on the open code? (devils advocate here, you could be committing just as much a sin as you say this guy is doing) Sep 15 21:55:15 haha no, well i'm connected via my home computer so it won't show exactly thank god :P Sep 15 21:55:28 lcuk, the kernel is licensed under the GPL Sep 15 21:55:29 CreamyG: good call. Sep 15 21:55:48 MohammadAG51, so when somebody asks crashanddie for the source? Sep 15 21:56:14 why should they? when he got a GPL licensed blob? Sep 15 21:56:32 you do not play games with licensing Sep 15 21:56:47 the same rules would apply to crashanddie as he says should apply Sep 15 21:56:58 tell it to the guy who's distributing a sourceless blob which is "maintained" by the stock kernel nokia guy Sep 15 21:56:59 the proper right thing to do now you have a binary is officially request the source Sep 15 21:57:02 hey, I didn't say anything about his licence Sep 15 21:57:03 and follow through that way Sep 15 21:57:21 no crashanddie but MohammadAG51 is right, if you are distributing a binary blob of the GPL kernel Sep 15 21:57:24 and modules etc Sep 15 21:57:30 you have to also follow the gpl Sep 15 21:57:39 he's not the guy at fault here Sep 15 21:57:42 and since you cannot supply the source yourself Sep 15 21:57:49 lcuk: sure I can Sep 15 21:57:51 MohammadAG51, he will be if he distributes the binary Sep 15 21:57:57 lcuk: if you want, I'll send it to you tomorrow morning Sep 15 21:58:03 i dont want it Sep 15 21:58:05 lcuk: it will compile no problem, into the .ko Sep 15 21:58:06 i am not interested Sep 15 21:58:21 Just be prepared to read ASM Sep 15 21:58:56 GPL code can be legally disassembled I guess... Sep 15 21:58:59 contact the FSF Sep 15 21:59:07 r whoever you have to do Sep 15 21:59:14 I don't give a shit Sep 15 21:59:25 but don't compound it by re-distributing something you know if GPL as binary Sep 15 21:59:26 lcuk, and if the person distributing the blob doesn't push the source? Sep 15 21:59:46 lcuk: and I'm not the author, I have no necessity to publish the source code Sep 15 22:00:03 http://gpl-violations.org/ Sep 15 22:00:10 I haven't modified it, I'm not bound to publish anything Sep 15 22:00:21 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html Sep 15 22:00:24 crashanddie: did you release neopwn? Sep 15 22:00:32 read the license carefully Sep 15 22:01:21 crashanddie, you have what you believe is offending binary code Sep 15 22:01:22 moin Sep 15 22:01:23 follow due process Sep 15 22:01:31 and request source officially Sep 15 22:01:37 No Sep 15 22:01:47 It won't change squat shit Sep 15 22:02:03 give me two weeks, and you'll have the source code, written by me. Sep 15 22:02:12 then report the violation back to the original copyright owner Sep 15 22:02:14 in the meantime, I'm releasing what I have. Sep 15 22:02:15 and let them deal with it Sep 15 22:02:28 I don't care whether you like it or not Sep 15 22:02:44 If I remember, you're the one who didn't start liqbase as GPL in the first place Sep 15 22:02:50 no Sep 15 22:02:53 if I remember, you're the one who didn't release source code Sep 15 22:02:55 i started it as closed source Sep 15 22:03:03 you are right Sep 15 22:03:07 and I learnt about it Sep 15 22:03:15 and I spent time finding out Sep 15 22:03:23 so don't come busting my nuts because I'm just pushing people over the edge rather than killing myself asking nicely for it Sep 15 22:03:23 and it was a carefully considered decision Sep 15 22:03:33 crashanddie, but this is already GPL code Sep 15 22:03:41 no, it's not. Sep 15 22:03:44 me coming from a closed source world changes nothing Sep 15 22:03:46 for all we know, it isn't Sep 15 22:03:59 then who has the copyright? Sep 15 22:04:01 actually, I know, but you don't Sep 15 22:04:05 because its not your binary Sep 15 22:04:10 there isn't any copyright provided with the binaries Sep 15 22:04:24 can i have the binaries? Sep 15 22:04:32 sure, email? Sep 15 22:04:35 pm it Sep 15 22:05:00 crashanddie, use strings on the .ko Sep 15 22:05:01 lcuk: I suspect it is GPL due to a transcript I've read, of swc|666 ranting in another channel Sep 15 22:05:20 license=GPL Sep 15 22:05:25 aww crap Sep 15 22:05:50 so, swc|666 should provide the sources of the blobs Sep 15 22:06:09 otherwise he's violating the GPL Sep 15 22:06:15 Licence=GPL does not mean that it is GPL licence. Sep 15 22:06:28 well, it is, actually Sep 15 22:06:30 SpeedEvil: hard to think of something else Sep 15 22:06:43 SpeedEvil: the driver is based off the wl1251 driver Sep 15 22:06:46 which is GPL Sep 15 22:06:53 and has been modified Sep 15 22:06:56 there have - for example - been cases when COPYING was distributed on DVDs that were not GPL Sep 15 22:06:57 so the changes should be released Sep 15 22:07:00 ah - k Sep 15 22:07:17 indeed, so it's not crashanddie violating the GPL here Sep 15 22:07:29 well, I understand lcuk's point Sep 15 22:07:32 It is if he's further redistributing. Sep 15 22:07:45 I'm helping in the distribution of code that violates the GPL Sep 15 22:07:45 It's _everyones_ fault that redistributes without source. Sep 15 22:07:54 And they all have the obligation to provide source. Sep 15 22:08:10 then swc|666 has to do that, not crashanddie Sep 15 22:08:12 SpeedEvil: does C code with the function list but ASM inside count as code? Sep 15 22:08:24 cuz I have that Sep 15 22:08:24 Of course - if they don't have it - that's tricky - but it's no different than a router maker that ships the router without GPL source as they weren't given it. Sep 15 22:08:27 and it compiles (kinda) Sep 15 22:08:50 well, can't crashanddie just change licenses? Sep 15 22:08:57 nope Sep 15 22:09:31 Well, I could just include a GPL licence with swc|666's details as the author, so he gets the problems, not me :P Sep 15 22:09:33 Because someone is violating GPL does not give you the right to that code. Sep 15 22:09:50 If I take mplayer, patch it and release it, I'm violating GPL. Sep 15 22:10:08 however, you do not have the right to take that code, and slap a GPL on it - even if you have the actual code. Sep 15 22:10:25 swc|666, mind pitching in? Sep 15 22:10:41 Me violating the license does not give you the licence to code I wrote. Sep 15 22:10:41 ok, and if I reverse engineer the ASM and re-implement it myself, am I still violating? Sep 15 22:11:34 That's beyond my knowledge. Sep 15 22:11:38 crashanddie: probably, but it could be argued that the code is "contaminted" Sep 15 22:11:45 contaminated* Sep 15 22:11:55 do you mean "tainted"? Sep 15 22:12:00 Consider though that you can do the same for windows. Sep 15 22:12:11 And I'm sure Microsoft would be very unhappy. Sep 15 22:12:25 (though it would take a couple of weeks more than doing the wl* drivers) Sep 15 22:12:28 crashanddie: iirc, that's the phrasing they used when reverse engineering the BIOS decades ago Sep 15 22:12:31 except that Microsoft would attack me on other things Sep 15 22:12:40 patents, trademarks Sep 15 22:14:29 My latest fun licence related realisation has been that if you have a TPM system - or one where the user can't access running binaries - you can get round GPL entirely by shipping the user the (encrypted) source, and compiling on device. Sep 15 22:14:42 When it gets to the user. Sep 15 22:14:56 Seems like way too much work. Sep 15 22:15:35 The nasty licence conditions - requiring release of source code - are not triggered - as you're not distribting object, and you just have to say it's GPL. Sep 15 22:15:40 (2 only) Sep 15 22:18:54 there is no notice saying I'm not allowed to reverse engineer/decompile. There is just a string that says "GPL". Microsoft's licence however says I'm not allowed to do such things. Sep 15 22:19:06 i'm off Sep 15 22:19:08 night Sep 15 22:19:14 night MohammadAG51 Sep 15 22:19:22 I would've loved swc|666's input though. Sep 15 22:21:52 Without the licence, the only - sanely legal - interpretation is that you have no licence to do anything other than the author implied Sep 15 22:21:55 but ... Sep 15 22:25:47 Well, sue me. Sep 15 22:26:08 If you manage to find out my home address, anyway. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 15 23:16:15 2010 Sep 15 23:16:20 uhuh, says who? Sep 15 23:16:29 … Sep 15 23:16:53 you compared the binary to some original mainline module? Sep 15 23:17:03 crashanddie did, as I underrstand it Sep 15 23:17:29 DocScrutinizer: I decompiled the binary, and am cutting through it as we speak Sep 15 23:17:43 no, he's going to do that, and as soon as he gets to know I'm sure he'll let the authors know what's going on Sep 15 23:17:46 pasting the GPL code that is available and noticing the mismatches between the GPL code and the ASM code Sep 15 23:18:13 crashanddie: did their binary happen to have a string identifying the exact compiler used? Sep 15 23:18:21 yes Sep 15 23:18:26 you could conceivably do a binary diff on it ;) Sep 15 23:18:26 until then he's free to distribute the binary and wait to get sued by swc, what never will happen Sep 15 23:18:41 DocScrutinizer: or any other copyright holder Sep 15 23:18:51 luke-jr: how would that help? Sep 15 23:18:58 luke-jr: oh, in noticing where the changes are? Sep 15 23:19:02 crashanddie: exactly Sep 15 23:19:04 luke-jr: just for not including GPL Sep 15 23:19:13 DocScrutinizer: for not including the source code Sep 15 23:19:25 fuck, that's BS, he has no src Sep 15 23:19:34 DocScrutinizer: GPL says in that case, you cannot distribute at all Sep 15 23:19:48 luke-jr: except I don't have the GPL at all with the binaries Sep 15 23:19:54 luke-jr: so how am I supposed to enforce it? Sep 15 23:19:56 crashanddie: anyhow, like I said, I'd suggest emailing the wl12xx original authors, summarizing the violation, and asking for them to release you from the GPL in this instance Sep 15 23:20:11 tell me where that's written please. And then prove to me how GPL is to apply to a unknown binary Sep 15 23:20:11 crashanddie: you can't enforce it. Sep 15 23:20:18 crashanddie: legally, you can't distribute the binary at all Sep 15 23:20:27 says who? Sep 15 23:20:34 crashanddie: Copyright Law and GPL Sep 15 23:20:46 I was given the binary, with the mention "Do with it as you please, I'm washing my hands off it" Sep 15 23:20:49 DocScrutinizer: again, if you assume it's not GPL, then you can't distribute it period under any conditions Sep 15 23:20:51 who cares about GPL Sep 15 23:20:53 ????? Sep 15 23:21:06 DocScrutinizer: f u Sep 15 23:21:08 luke-jr: I can whole day long Sep 15 23:21:23 chill guys Sep 15 23:21:29 who's going to stop me? Sep 15 23:21:49 DocScrutinizer: with that attitude, I'd sue you if I held the copyright. Sep 15 23:21:50 luke-jr: for sure NOT you Sep 15 23:22:00 you don't Sep 15 23:22:02 holy shit Sep 15 23:22:03 ok, no need to get personal Sep 15 23:22:10 liqflow on livewp single view is awesome Sep 15 23:22:21 lcuk: yeah, you launched a hairy topic, it's still going strong Sep 15 23:22:30 i didn't launch it Sep 15 23:22:45 GPL: "If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence *you may not distribute the Program at all*." Sep 15 23:23:06 luke-jr: stop quoting irrelevant nonsense Sep 15 23:23:24 the binary isn't under GPL, that's the whole point Sep 15 23:23:29 lcuk: pretty sure you did guv :P 23:50 < lcuk> crashanddie, i hate to break it to you, but how do you know that the binary you are about to distribute is based on the open code? (devils advocate here, you could be committing just as much a sin as you say this guy is doing) Sep 15 23:23:31 fine then Sep 15 23:23:51 Copyright Law: """" You may not distribute the program at all, period, unless you have permission from the copyright holder." Sep 15 23:23:56 crashanddie, oh, that yeah. Sep 15 23:23:57 """" = paraphrased Sep 15 23:24:16 and DocScrutinizer - there is reasonable doubt since everyone was bitching that its exactly what happened Sep 15 23:24:18 luke-jr: again, that depends on the country Sep 15 23:24:28 luke-jr: and who's going to sue me? Sep 15 23:24:29 i merely observed that crashanddie would be in the same situation Sep 15 23:24:34 crashanddie: every country I know of defaults to "you cannot distribute" Sep 15 23:24:37 lcuk: aye Sep 15 23:24:42 DocScrutinizer: any copyright holder Sep 15 23:24:53 * DocScrutinizer shrugs Sep 15 23:25:10 we've been there twice before Sep 15 23:25:13 luke-jr: Kazakhstan copyright law doesn't. Sep 15 23:25:24 so move to Kazakhstan Sep 15 23:25:31 seriously though crashanddie - liqflow is behind everything on the desktop, its awesome Sep 15 23:25:33 didn't you know? I live there. Sep 15 23:25:35 I mean here. Sep 15 23:26:01 lcuk: how so? Sep 15 23:26:27 luke-jr: you don't know who's copyright holder, you don't know which copyright the binary is under. So you can't assume anything in advance... Sep 15 23:26:35 vasvlad has added live wallpapers, and he spent time adding support for any application, liqbase ones as well Sep 15 23:26:35 but honestly, seeya peeps Sep 15 23:26:41 DocScrutinizer: in that case, you can't distribute it period Sep 15 23:26:44 so it lives behind all the icons and stuff Sep 15 23:26:49 and runs at its full speed :) Sep 15 23:26:56 period yourself. I can Sep 15 23:26:56 lcuk: oooh, shiny Sep 15 23:27:00 indeed! Sep 15 23:28:02 crashanddie, it includes all the x11screensavers too! Sep 15 23:28:07 about 100 of them :D Sep 15 23:28:22 lcuk: Oook! Sep 15 23:28:32 I want xlock -inroot -mode flame... Sep 15 23:32:08 xflame Yes Continuous High http://wiki.maemo.org/Xscreensaver Sep 15 23:32:14 SpeedEvil, ^ Sep 15 23:32:26 theres the list of the xscreensavers with notes about cpu use etc Sep 15 23:33:04 of course, theres also gas balls in ovi store as well Sep 15 23:33:09 which is opengl based Sep 15 23:33:25 I like gas balls Sep 15 23:33:44 I might work on something similar once I've plowed through my projects. Sep 15 23:33:51 sure Sep 15 23:33:59 technically you can take any standard app Sep 15 23:34:03 and add a config file Sep 15 23:34:10 hmm Sep 15 23:34:10 and it will be runnable in the livewp Sep 15 23:34:14 * SpeedEvil ponders. Sep 15 23:35:06 mplayer? Sep 15 23:36:07 SpeedEvil, its got movie support anyway Sep 15 23:36:12 thats another feature lol Sep 15 23:36:30 hmm Sep 15 23:37:06 he just added the "one wallpaper for all desktops tweak Sep 15 23:37:15 A 'live' virtual sky background would be awesome. Sep 15 23:37:28 But for that, I'd need to install the compass. Sep 15 23:37:29 SpeedEvil, i think someone already did a video for that Sep 15 23:37:34 hah Sep 15 23:37:43 it doesnt have to be that real :P Sep 15 23:37:52 nice thing Sep 15 23:37:57 it supports up/down strokes Sep 15 23:38:05 so i might put calendar on there or something Sep 15 23:39:08 as it stands now whilst swiping the desktop, i am loving liqflow flowing :D Sep 15 23:39:17 :) Sep 15 23:39:32 i should make the strokes erode with time Sep 15 23:39:37 so that the flow slows back down Sep 15 23:41:21 I wrote a nice little QWidget that allows horziontal or vertical view swiping. Sep 15 23:41:27 Been using it in my apps. Sep 15 23:41:51 alterego, cool beans Sep 15 23:42:12 It is a really cool UX design pattern Sep 15 23:42:21 I feel quite cool doing it :) Sep 15 23:42:27 does it move to next "tile" like the desktop does Sep 15 23:42:32 or swipe continuous Sep 15 23:42:45 It slides to the next tile. Sep 15 23:43:28 wow, the YUV overlay even shows through transparency on widgets Sep 15 23:43:48 Yeah, Sep 15 23:50:39 MohammadAG51, whats the simplest way to flash the led light (any colour?) Sep 15 23:51:43 All done via dbus Sep 15 23:51:47 I thought Sep 15 23:52:01 You can get it to execute any of the patterns in the mce config file. Sep 15 23:54:56 lcuk: echo > file Sep 15 23:55:15 Or yes - dbus if you just want it to flash and any pattern is OK Sep 15 23:55:33 i just want to make it flash for a quick test in the frame renderer Sep 15 23:55:42 to make sure when screensaver comes on Sep 15 23:55:46 it actually stops Sep 15 23:56:02 errr screen dims Sep 15 23:57:07 Check out fcam Sep 15 23:57:10 See how they do it. Sep 15 23:57:28 its ok Sep 15 23:57:34 i just running top over ssh Sep 15 23:57:41 was thinking overly complex Sep 15 23:57:42 :) Sep 16 00:00:34 lcuk: easy: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/fcamera/trunk/src/LEDBlinker.cpp?root=fcam&view=markup Sep 16 00:02:10 cool, thanks Sep 16 00:02:33 alterego, :D am done though, cpu drops at the expected times (ie whenever desktop obscured, or screen is off) Sep 16 00:03:15 fair nuff Sep 16 00:47:28 Anyone has a tree of full untouched PR1.2 rootfs with md5sums of each file? Sep 16 01:00:44 whats the right way to ship some app for n900? To have it all on a /opt/ subdir and then create symlinks on /usr/bin, etc ? Sep 16 01:01:45 yes thats a reasonable mechanism, to get the pr1.2 files, you could extract the image by the way Sep 16 01:02:30 that's annoying, as it's a UBIFS image Sep 16 01:02:39 and you've got to do a stupid dance. Sep 16 01:03:04 thx, i thought about maybe doing that but perhaps someone already had a lists of checksums Sep 16 01:03:17 yeah someone mightv, but not seen it myself Sep 16 01:03:20 anyway, gnite Sep 16 01:03:25 night lcuk Sep 16 01:04:14 meant to generate one when I flashed - but I forgort. Sep 16 01:04:15 :/ Sep 16 01:04:50 Would be useful to have an script search for and tell all differences from time to time Sep 16 01:05:13 to check for apps not doing its job.... Sep 16 01:05:32 I only have 23MB free on rotfs Sep 16 01:07:43 gfind / -mount -ctime -20 Sep 16 01:08:16 mmmm, right! Sep 16 01:09:04 what the difference between gfind and find btw? Sep 16 01:11:14 gfind is the gnu find Sep 16 01:11:23 find is the broken busybox one Sep 16 01:11:45 thx Sep 16 01:11:51 apt-get install findutils Sep 16 01:14:32 yep, i had it installed, I thought it was just replacing the symlinks for busybox with the real tools Sep 16 01:14:38 didn't know about the g prefix Sep 16 01:28:07 ugh, there are lots of offenders :S Sep 16 01:54:02 gezz, whats wrong with the people, it isnt that hard to place the files in the right place Sep 16 02:12:37 is there a way to show what packages have been installed from each repository? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 16 02:59:57 2010