**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 16 02:59:57 2010 Sep 16 03:00:35 n900 ftw Sep 16 03:00:58 DocScrutinizer, ping Sep 16 03:01:17 DocScrutinizer, what's your swappiness? Sep 16 03:02:34 and /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster? Sep 16 03:02:46 and /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster Sep 16 03:03:05 double Sep 16 03:03:07 wups Sep 16 03:03:09 hehe Sep 16 03:08:11 any way, hope all is good DocScrutinizer Sep 16 03:08:13 :) Sep 16 03:08:35 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48966&page=2 Sep 16 03:10:24 5 page-cluster 100 sw0piness is default on n900 Sep 16 03:12:34 0 page-cluseter sounds, well, very stupid Sep 16 03:15:00 ShadowJK, know Sep 16 03:15:41 Hi all could someone direct me to where I could get help with my E71 please. Sep 16 03:15:41 only bad thing it got too sensitive in my pocket Sep 16 03:16:00 nokia care Sep 16 03:16:14 Thank you Sep 16 03:16:19 np Sep 16 03:16:55 can i get some help please Sep 16 03:17:26 sure Sep 16 03:17:49 that will be 100� Sep 16 03:18:17 :-() Sep 16 03:18:20 lol Sep 16 03:18:24 ;-( Sep 16 03:18:27 heh Sep 16 03:18:51 what problem is? Sep 16 03:18:52 im trying to rebirth my n800 Sep 16 03:19:08 that sounds painful, and may involve medical complications Sep 16 03:19:12 my n800 is stuck on a constant reboot Sep 16 03:19:23 lol@johnx Sep 16 03:19:33 /etc/hostname? Sep 16 03:19:42 Execuse me fredrin nothing comes up for nokia care Sep 16 03:20:06 i dont understand fredrin Sep 16 03:20:09 CiNc018, it starts rebooting when you plug in charger? Sep 16 03:20:12 PsyCl0ne, insurans then Sep 16 03:20:19 CiNc018: is it backed up? do you just want to reflash it? Sep 16 03:20:25 nah it starts reboot when i turn it on Sep 16 03:20:39 beer in keyboard? Sep 16 03:20:39 PsyCl0ne: he means: nokia customer service Sep 16 03:20:39 i want to reeflash it. nothing important on there Sep 16 03:20:58 *facepalm* ok thank you Sep 16 03:21:06 lol Sep 16 03:21:15 ju velcome Sep 16 03:21:48 now i have it on update mode.... and i have maemo flasher 3.5 open already Sep 16 03:21:49 PsyCl0ne: there may also be a symbian channel. they might be able to help there Sep 16 03:22:41 gl Sep 16 03:23:11 so u dont know about reflashing it? Sep 16 03:23:19 johnx: ah thanks Sep 16 03:23:29 only done reflash on Openmoko freerunner Sep 16 03:23:47 takes time Sep 16 03:23:59 boring Sep 16 03:24:10 i have time... Sep 16 03:24:11 !firmware Sep 16 03:24:18 time is good Sep 16 03:24:18 since im watchign dragon ball z Sep 16 03:24:21 uhm it was something like that Sep 16 03:24:25 !flasher Sep 16 03:24:27 humkay Sep 16 03:24:35 :( bad bot infobot Sep 16 03:24:44 flash or gtfo Sep 16 03:24:56 lol Sep 16 03:25:01 iirc I started flashed, connected usb cable, started N8x0, to flash them.. Sep 16 03:25:16 wow Sep 16 03:25:28 or maybe it wasn't u, it was something else on n8x0 Sep 16 03:26:06 wT N8X0 Sep 16 03:26:10 CiNc018: does NOLO work? Sep 16 03:26:14 im having trouble understanding the how to on maemo.org Sep 16 03:26:19 wats nolo? Sep 16 03:26:22 ……. Sep 16 03:26:35 err Sep 16 03:26:43 late Sep 16 03:26:47 im newe to all this sorry Sep 16 03:26:53 05:27 Sep 16 03:26:58 ~firmware Sep 16 03:26:58 firmware is probably hardware that is beginning to melt Firmware for GrandStream phones is at http://www.hellofone.com/files/ Sep 16 03:27:04 fail Sep 16 03:27:05 * fredrin drunk :D Sep 16 03:27:17 wtf do GrandStream phones have to do with N900? Sep 16 03:27:24 hah Sep 16 03:27:25 no se Sep 16 03:27:31 ~flashing Sep 16 03:27:31 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 16 03:27:59 wat Sep 16 03:28:02 i think that bot is in like 500 #s so maybe some factoids got mixed up :) Sep 16 03:28:08 yes thats what im reading now... Sep 16 03:28:15 every channel infobot sits in thinks infobot doesn't sit in any other channel Sep 16 03:28:24 thats the site im on right now. Sep 16 03:28:34 infobot is a nerd Sep 16 03:29:16 jeje Sep 16 03:29:17 nait Sep 16 03:29:29 [22:29:20] [Whois] infobot is a user on channels: #asterisk Sep 16 03:29:31 [22:29:20] [Whois] infobot has voice on channels: #maemo Sep 16 03:29:38 guess ~firmware is for #asterisk Sep 16 03:29:39 <.< Sep 16 03:29:46 *charging* Sep 16 03:29:53 i have my n800 on update mode and connected to usb Sep 16 03:30:02 gl Sep 16 03:30:34 so how do i start flashing this device? Sep 16 03:30:40 …….. Sep 16 03:30:42 READ IT Sep 16 03:30:44 CiNc018, you must start flasher-3.5 first, and when it says waiting for usb device, you plug the n800 Sep 16 03:30:59 ohhhh Sep 16 03:31:04 err Sep 16 03:31:09 just leave it plugged in the whole time Sep 16 03:31:10 okay ... let me do it like u said Sep 16 03:31:34 run flasher and it should catch the next reboot Sep 16 03:31:54 so i shouldnt put my n800 in update mode? Sep 16 03:32:41 CiNc018: how would you do that? Sep 16 03:33:24 I had to press the swap button for my n810 when turning it on, not sure about the n800 Sep 16 03:33:26 well first devise is off and usb is unplugged Sep 16 03:33:41 wats a swap button? Sep 16 03:34:11 app switcher Sep 16 03:35:52 bef0rd: there is no swap button… Sep 16 03:35:55 wat does this mean? Sep 16 03:36:00 oh Sep 16 03:36:02 that key Sep 16 03:36:10 never had to press it.. Sep 16 03:36:26 CiNc018: nevermind, just plug the USB in, run flasher, and turn it on Sep 16 03:36:33 CiNc018: note that plugging power in = turn on Sep 16 03:37:09 also be aware your battery is probably useless by now Sep 16 03:37:40 useless? Sep 16 03:37:48 yes Sep 16 03:38:01 as in, it will probably be dead within 5 minutes from a full charge Sep 16 03:38:04 at least mine is Sep 16 03:38:18 and I jsut got it spring 2009 (N810) Sep 16 03:40:00 my first n810 battery lasted 1.5 years and then it doubled in size and only lasted 30 minutes Sep 16 03:40:22 doubled in size? Sep 16 03:40:22 okay i did wat u said, and flasher said flashing compl;ete Sep 16 03:40:26 now what Sep 16 03:40:31 the battery thickness doubled Sep 16 03:40:32 CiNc018: now reboot it Sep 16 03:40:37 air: wtf Sep 16 03:40:41 disconnect usb? Sep 16 03:41:06 and power Sep 16 03:41:09 it didn't explode so all was good :) Sep 16 03:41:16 also, unplug your computer, and lights Sep 16 03:41:23 turn everything else off, then go to sleep Sep 16 03:41:31 and forget the N800 ever existed Sep 16 03:41:43 when you wake up in the morning, it will be as good as new Sep 16 03:41:58 haha wow i would have thrown that battery out Sep 16 03:42:02 rofl lmfao Sep 16 03:42:17 don't forget to brush your teeth and stuff Sep 16 03:42:34 the stuff is brushed i guess i did it backwards Sep 16 03:42:49 CreamyG: only after the battery cover was bulged and would no longer stay shut :) Sep 16 03:43:15 yeah i would have thought it would do that right before it explodes... Sep 16 03:43:26 or leaks acid all over you Sep 16 03:43:33 so you have to go to the ER Sep 16 03:43:33 but i guess that's the kind of quality you get with a genuine nokia battery Sep 16 03:43:36 and get your hand amputated Sep 16 03:43:50 then you need speech recognition because you can't type Sep 16 03:43:53 which Maemo doesn't have Sep 16 03:43:58 so you need to go spend money on Android Sep 16 03:44:00 etc Sep 16 03:44:31 li-po is a lot safer, the e71 BP-4L is like that Sep 16 03:44:41 i think ill sell my n800 and get an archos tablet Sep 16 03:44:58 CiNc018: don't expect more than $100 or so Sep 16 03:45:07 if that much Sep 16 03:45:14 CiNc018, be warned the Archos isn't at all hacker friendly. Sep 16 03:45:20 im doing it for 200 Sep 16 03:45:28 CiNc018: nobody will buy Sep 16 03:45:35 ill give you S=H Sep 16 03:45:35 grrr. then i hate archos... so what is hacker friendly :-) Sep 16 03:45:40 s+h Sep 16 03:45:54 haha it's not a phone man Sep 16 03:45:56 CiNc018: Freerunner Sep 16 03:45:58 CiNc018, N900 is reasonably hacker friendly, although not the same sort of device. Sep 16 03:46:03 Freerunner is the most of the group Sep 16 03:46:08 but it's really old hardware. Sep 16 03:46:09 Freerunner is a phone though Sep 16 03:46:17 Might wait to see where the N9 goes. Sep 16 03:46:23 As it'll drop prices at the very least. Sep 16 03:46:47 N9 is supposed to be more open? Sep 16 03:46:48 hey i wonder if i can install android on my n800?> Sep 16 03:46:55 CiNc018: hahaha Sep 16 03:47:00 wa? lol Sep 16 03:47:23 * luke-jr never understood why one would want Android on a N8x0 Sep 16 03:47:30 there's an old nitdroid for n800 but i'd not want that either Sep 16 03:47:35 it's not like it will grow cellular capability Sep 16 03:47:55 i just like to hack my gadgets... Sep 16 03:48:08 CiNc018: Freerunner has some interesting new developments if you want a phone Sep 16 03:48:11 i do it for the amazement lol Sep 16 03:48:20 let me youtube freerunner Sep 16 03:48:30 yeah i bought stuff for my n800 to make it into a web based power relay switch so i can turn my desktop computer on and off with it Sep 16 03:48:34 they're getting the cellular modem firmware replaced with an open one Sep 16 03:48:34 i hope its not a person who is running freely Sep 16 03:49:44 openmoko neo freerunner? thats the full name of it Sep 16 03:49:45 ? Sep 16 03:49:49 yeah Sep 16 03:50:14 awww it looks like a tablet gave birth to it Sep 16 03:51:21 lol Sep 16 03:52:35 i had an hp tc 1000 and traded it for my n800 i have now Sep 16 03:53:43 I wouldn't trade my SL-C760 for any other device so far Sep 16 03:53:51 unfortunately, its battery is useless too Sep 16 03:54:04 oooo wat it is? Sep 16 03:54:33 maybe 8-10 years old now Sep 16 03:54:39 handheld computer Sep 16 03:54:51 cost me like $800-$900 back in the day Sep 16 03:55:03 oooo Sep 16 03:55:05 but had the best keyboard ever Sep 16 03:56:27 and now its worth a bag of special pretzels? Sep 16 03:56:42 lol Sep 16 03:56:55 luke whose the person who made the marina theme, i forgot :/ Sep 16 03:56:57 I'd still use it if the battery wasn't dead… and it had more RAM :/ Sep 16 03:57:03 Xisdibik: wtf is that Sep 16 03:57:08 a theme for the N900 Sep 16 03:57:14 how would I know Sep 16 03:57:17 I use defaults Sep 16 03:57:19 like always Sep 16 03:57:20 because your here all the tim :P Sep 16 03:57:21 time* Sep 16 03:57:32 you're* Sep 16 03:57:33 pwnt Sep 16 03:57:39 :p Sep 16 03:57:45 and I would have accepted 'tim' Sep 16 03:57:46 and u pay attention to detail ^ Sep 16 03:57:53 lol Sep 16 03:58:01 cuz Tonal time is in units of 'tim's Sep 16 03:58:05 <.< Sep 16 03:58:17 * Xisdibik pokes luke-jr with some sigh Sep 16 03:58:29 anyhow Sep 16 03:58:32 if I'm here all the time Sep 16 03:58:37 that means I'm here too much Sep 16 03:58:40 so I better go Sep 16 03:58:43 nope Sep 16 03:58:45 do something productive Sep 16 03:58:46 :P Sep 16 03:58:46 we love you being here Sep 16 03:58:50 haha yeah right Sep 16 03:59:04 except when everyone wants my head on a platter Sep 16 03:59:26 which is never......(always?) Sep 16 04:00:26 hey luke. do u know if there was ever a solution for the hardware bug the n800 has when the screen starts scrolling? Sep 16 04:00:59 if it wasnt you luke i think it was probably lcuk or else ive totally forgot Sep 16 04:03:00 CiNc018: nhoi Sep 16 04:07:12 http://qzx.com/n8x0-app/ -- someone give me a name for this app i'm writing Sep 16 04:07:40 u dont know Sep 16 04:07:49 i need a name for it Sep 16 04:08:15 systemair Sep 16 04:08:16 thats not really a hardware bug, it's the key repeating problem, a wontfix for diablo :| Sep 16 04:13:15 Xisdibik: that name sucks but it gave me a good idea :) Sep 16 04:13:37 air: that was my goal :) Sep 16 04:14:08 If I gave you a GOOD name, then id require royalties and such ;) Sep 16 04:15:38 will do, please send me you bank account info for the deposits ;) Sep 16 04:16:19 :P Sep 16 04:16:35 I didnt give you a good name, just helped you get your own good idea, so no royalties needed ;) Sep 16 04:17:11 thats good, free software never produces any royalties Sep 16 04:17:31 mmmhmmm ;) Sep 16 05:01:22 ok. you know. i know i've been bashing my n900 and maemo for a while now.. but i just did something that made it like when i installed cyanogen on my G1 and turned the G1 into a whole new ballgame Sep 16 05:01:30 i installed the google voice plugin LOL Sep 16 05:02:40 and the gv txt msging.. with its conversations integration made my n900 worthwhile all over again LOL Sep 16 05:05:41 i seriously wish nokia would reconsider its stance on maemo :) Sep 16 05:05:56 what stance is that? death? Sep 16 05:06:17 yeah Sep 16 05:06:23 * MohammadAG51 seriously wishes nokia would take its hands off maemo Sep 16 05:06:31 my n900 still works Sep 16 05:07:08 ljp: how? Sep 16 05:07:15 fairly sure the rest of the n900's out there wont stop working either Sep 16 05:07:30 cellmo had a time bomb that disabled it at midnight local time today Sep 16 05:08:03 moo all Sep 16 05:08:35 now that the HTC Desire Z has been announced, there at least is a qwerty Android phone, that'd be a nice backup in case Nokia doesn't come thru. Sep 16 05:11:05 come through with what? Sep 16 05:11:31 SwedeMike: as if there haven't been QWERTY Android phones before? Sep 16 05:11:37 SwedeMike: also, qwerty = crap Sep 16 05:11:57 luke-jr: not good ones . Sep 16 05:12:10 SwedeMike: are you implying Nokia has had any good ones? Sep 16 05:12:10 ljp: come thru with a decent phone. I don't like what I'm seeing from meego so far. Sep 16 05:12:40 luke-jr: well, there are bad and worse. Sep 16 05:13:09 I want to try a handheld with DEIS keyboard :P Sep 16 05:13:50 http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/hhkeys.html Sep 16 05:13:51 what is a DEIS keyboard? Sep 16 05:14:18 optimized for thumb typing Sep 16 05:14:31 oh. Sep 16 05:14:49 that looks like a lot of keys... one needs small thumbs :P Sep 16 05:15:10 not really Sep 16 05:15:42 http://www.linuxjournal.com/files/linuxjournal.com/linuxjournal/articles/071/7162/7162f2.jpg Sep 16 05:15:45 plenty of keyboard space Sep 16 05:16:24 well, I just counted that the N900 has 13 keys, so I guess without the numeric keys it'll be ok Sep 16 05:16:46 that one only has 10 keys on the qwerty row Sep 16 05:18:03 N900 has the worst keyboard ever Sep 16 05:18:19 it makes N810's keyboard look good Sep 16 05:18:27 and N810's kb was pretty bad already Sep 16 05:18:43 hm repository.maemo.org down ? Sep 16 05:18:43 N900 is my only qwerty phone, I don't have anything to compare to. I think it's decent... Sep 16 05:18:56 N900 isn't even a phone Sep 16 05:19:11 aptget is giving me unable to resolve .. tho connected via wifi Sep 16 05:19:11 see the jpg I just linked for C760 Sep 16 05:19:16 * jpinx-eeepc is happy withthe n900 asa phone Sep 16 05:19:29 SwedeMike: you have to remember who you are talking to, there a few here who have nothing but bad stuff to say about nokia ;) Sep 16 05:19:37 SwedeMike: but for some reason they stick around anyway Sep 16 05:19:37 frals: m. Sep 16 05:19:39 The keys on the N900 keyboard are easier to press than the N810's. Sep 16 05:19:52 That is its ownly advantage. Sep 16 05:22:30 derf: use the virtual kbd? Sep 16 05:23:40 interesting, on my n900 now running vlc will simply crashes hildon-desktop and itself... Sep 16 05:24:21 s/crashes/crash/ Sep 16 05:24:22 pigeon meant: interesting, on my n900 now running vlc will simply crash hildon-desktop and itself... Sep 16 05:26:30 pigeon: I run vlc in a chroot without issues Sep 16 05:26:53 ha, it only crashes if i start vlc from the launcher icon. Sep 16 05:27:04 command line is fine. Sep 16 05:28:36 i wodner if it's related to the fact that the launcher isn't displaying the icon for vlc properly. Sep 16 05:28:55 * jpinx-eeepc has not explored the launchers methods Sep 16 05:29:53 http://qzx.com/tmp/advanced-systemui/ -- anyone with an n8x0 and _no_ rotation support wanna test that and tell me if it works? Sep 16 05:30:21 I had to reflash my N900 today, completely. For some reason it completely screwed itself :P Sep 16 05:30:58 Shapeshifter, I think I had problems when I tried it last time Sep 16 05:32:53 luke-jr, I thought you were strongly opposed to using anything closed source? Why are there Windows files scattered around your directory Sep 16 05:32:54 ? :P Sep 16 05:33:59 I've discovered his secret double-life. Sep 16 05:33:59 :P Sep 16 05:35:07 Termana: ⁇? Sep 16 05:35:50 luke-jr, I thought I'd do some stalking^W^W^W looking around on http://luke.dashjr.org and I found a heap of windows stuff Sep 16 05:35:56 where at? Sep 16 05:36:25 like /tmp/win32 is one place Sep 16 05:36:47 * luke-jr wonders what those exes are Sep 16 05:37:05 careful, there's at least a good chance they're viruses Sep 16 05:37:28 luke-jr, I don't run Windows (nor use Wine) anyway, so I can't try and run them :P Sep 16 05:37:50 * luke-jr has been known to collect viruses from time to time Sep 16 05:37:58 sometimes even raise them in a sandbox Sep 16 05:37:59 :p Sep 16 05:39:43 luke-jr, you know that would seem like an effective way to spread a virus. Infect yourself and then let it automatically seek out its next victim. As soon as you know it's spammed enough people or whatever to get someone, just kill it. Better then trying to do legwork yourself to get someone infected :P Sep 16 05:45:24 lcuk, it's nice to see some sort of POSITIVE thread on tmo for once Sep 16 05:45:25 :P Sep 16 05:57:03 Sep 16 05:59:02 is there any liblocation -> gpsd emulation program? Sep 16 06:13:52 Termana: what thread? Sep 16 06:14:41 rmrfchik, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=817191 responses have been positive as well Sep 16 06:19:46 Termana: it's just because this thread is about maemo, not nokia ;) Sep 16 06:30:46 hmm is it possible to have the n90 sync it's time with the cell operator? Sep 16 06:31:47 pref->date&time->update automatically Sep 16 06:34:02 asj and how do i force it? Sep 16 06:34:15 I've set it to update but still way not correct Sep 16 06:34:59 I'll switch off and restart once Sep 16 06:35:04 try going offline/online Sep 16 06:35:27 you've checked your timezeon? Sep 16 06:35:43 yes Sep 16 06:35:55 that is correct Sep 16 06:36:04 let's see what a reboot does Sep 16 06:37:17 nothing Sep 16 06:37:28 of course your network maybe wrong or may not support it Sep 16 06:39:21 hmm Sep 16 06:39:23 (which means you can always install openntpd from extras) Sep 16 06:40:21 I'm trying to change the regional settings and reverting back Sep 16 06:44:28 asj: hmm, i thought this is about ntp, not gsm Sep 16 06:46:12 rmrfchik: if your gsm network doesn't provide time (which I think I've run into) nothing you do will make time from gsm work...so you have to look at alternatives. Sep 16 06:46:49 asj: so, "date&time->update automatically" has no relation with NTP? Sep 16 06:47:03 rmrfchik: afaik, no Sep 16 06:48:02 how does getting time from gsm network actually work? I always assumed it just synced the time based on headers of an incoming SMS Sep 16 06:48:38 lindi-: I tried googling it..it's not an easy topic to turn up info on Sep 16 06:49:32 asj: I've been trying to find out for the last two years :) Sep 16 06:51:00 lindi-: there is special GSM service for this Sep 16 06:51:13 lindi-: I'm sure you can be the standard... ;) there's an open gsm portion out there now, was used at burning man...not sure the right term or bits, but maybe it's there in code Sep 16 06:51:40 when I go out of russia with my (old) mobile phone, it usual ask me "wow, I can sync time with mobile operator!" Sep 16 06:51:49 no such service on russia is provided ;( Sep 16 06:52:35 asj: I did try searching the standards I got from 3gpp, at least I have not found an AT command for this Sep 16 06:52:58 asj: and yes, I tried looking at it in openbts too Sep 16 06:53:19 rmrfchik: do you know if there are an AT commands for that? Sep 16 06:53:39 http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/74834-1.php is the only thing I could find, and it's useless Sep 16 06:54:20 lindi-: no Sep 16 06:54:28 lindi-: i mean "don't know" Sep 16 06:54:45 lindi-: i suppose this is not on AT level, but on GSM level Sep 16 06:54:54 rmrfchik: hmm Sep 16 06:56:39 asj: yeah AT+CCLK starts from zero on ti calypso (as included in openmoko freerunner) and I have never seen it update time from network Sep 16 06:57:07 lindi-: pfft, no clue...bet the n900 bit isn't open either, which is too bad Sep 16 06:57:10 rmrfchik: ok. do you know if n900 can do this? if yes, how does it set the system time? Sep 16 07:02:47 lindi-: don't know Sep 16 07:12:30 morn achipa Sep 16 07:18:17 morn stskeeps Sep 16 07:24:59 morn andre__ Sep 16 07:26:28 heja Sep 16 07:48:34 dang that updater application is slow these days Sep 16 07:48:57 takes gazillion years to update the manifest. Sep 16 07:59:37 X-Fade, Ping? Sep 16 08:00:23 Morning all Sep 16 08:01:04 morning Sep 16 08:05:50 does the nitdroid autoinstaller install on the extra microSD or on the internal one? Sep 16 08:06:17 woah Sep 16 08:06:20 someone talking about that heree Sep 16 08:06:26 I was just reading upon that Sep 16 08:06:49 Milo I test everything :p Sep 16 08:07:13 btw, why does the maemo5 alarm clock suck so much? I mean, my phone is supposed to be a smartphone, but if I don't react to the alarm in 1 minute, it goes silent, and never beeps again Sep 16 08:07:23 which is why I am constantly 'late' from work. Sep 16 08:07:46 is there a better alarm clock application, which doesn't stop beeping until I tell it to stop beeping? Sep 16 08:07:56 sure, blame it on your phone :) Sep 16 08:08:04 lol Sep 16 08:08:14 "Maemo 5 is so bad, it makes me late for work!" Sep 16 08:08:31 LOL Sep 16 08:08:33 My clock is supposed to ring at 6:00 AM, when I finally wake up, my alarm clock's 'snooze / stop' option is still active, but no sound is coming from the phone Sep 16 08:08:38 and it still shows the time as "6:00" Sep 16 08:08:48 proves I haven't touched the damn thing. Sep 16 08:09:01 and yet the time is actually something like 8:00 AM when I wake up Sep 16 08:09:16 so yeah, I have very little faith in my phone's alarm clock at the moment Sep 16 08:09:22 Hehe "Click to read 18414 more words" :) Sep 16 08:11:32 but noone knows a better alarm clock for n900? Sep 16 08:11:44 flipclock? Sep 16 08:11:54 repo? Sep 16 08:12:31 might be for diablo if its not in your default repo Sep 16 08:15:57 voted Sep 16 08:20:28 "as you are eligible to vote". Sep 16 08:20:37 hmm, how voters are choosen? Sep 16 08:21:42 lol http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=4920 Sep 16 08:21:50 rmrfchik: karma Sep 16 08:45:28 hm what's the difference between the opengl superbible and the red book? Sep 16 08:46:14 the red book could be 'the red dragon book', which is a book about compilers and compiler designs :) Sep 16 08:46:30 and the bible probably has something to do with religion Sep 16 08:46:45 compilers are real, bible is fictional Sep 16 08:46:54 lol Sep 16 08:47:13 srly, reading the descriptions for both books they seem to be mostly identical Sep 16 08:47:18 (content wise) Sep 16 08:47:27 the red book should be the official book from the khronos group Sep 16 08:47:41 ...which is the opengl standard group Sep 16 08:51:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL#Books Sep 16 08:53:23 there you have both books again :D Sep 16 08:59:46 I see. :( Sep 16 08:59:52 ruskie: I see :( Sep 16 09:20:00 Morning, all Sep 16 09:21:25 SpeedEvil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geqip_0Vjec :O Sep 16 09:22:28 THROWN HOOPS Sep 16 09:22:30 THE FUCK Sep 16 09:47:11 Mmmmm, neopwn store is closed now: "Please check back for the public release of the project." Sep 16 09:47:42 Maybe this means he will be releasing the source code soon? Sep 16 09:48:06 hey guys Sep 16 09:48:18 is there an easy reliable way to make screencasts for my mameo device Sep 16 09:48:23 vnc is too slow Sep 16 09:48:41 and load-applet kinda messes up the recording (video is quiker then audio) Sep 16 09:50:39 Shift+ctrl+p Sep 16 09:50:50 ahhh screencasts :$ Sep 16 09:51:08 morning Jaffa \o Sep 16 09:51:21 did you manage to find yourself an N8 then? Sep 16 09:52:44 ew Sep 16 09:54:50 does recordmydesktop work? Sep 16 09:56:11 i use that on my desktop debian Sep 16 09:57:12 visz, it might well work if you try and build it, but I dont think it has been done to date Sep 16 09:57:22 and doesn't that use vnc under the hood? Sep 16 09:58:59 don't think so Sep 16 09:59:25 ~ping Sep 16 10:00:02 ~ping Sep 16 10:00:02 ~pong Sep 16 10:00:12 ~chaninfo Sep 16 10:00:12 I'm on 12 channels: #debian/701, #maemo/497, #/25, ##essy/16, ##guleague/14, ##pxe/7, ##bz-inc/4, ##bspress/3, ##icf/3, ##ols/3, ##t42/2 Sep 16 10:00:12 i've cached 1275 users, 1215 unique users, distributed over 12 channels. Sep 16 10:01:19 Hum still not vote token in my email inbox :( Sep 16 10:02:15 ~chaninfo Sep 16 10:02:15 I'm on 41 channels: #debian/703, #maemo/497, #kde/369, #asterisk/226, #htc-linux/128, #bzflag/57, #asterisk-dev/53, #elinux/31, #/25, #asterisk-bugs/24, ##kierra/23, #brlcad/21, #buglabs/17, #bzflag-chat/16, ##essy/16, #hawkboard/15, ##guleague/14, #asterisk-doc/11, ##ducleague/10, #debianppc/10, #infobot/10, #debian-france/9, #arl/9, #elive/8, #debian-bots/8, #flyspray/7, ##pxe/7, #botpark/6, #fredlug/5, #arm-netbook/4, ##bz-inc/4, ##ols/3, ##icf/3, ... Sep 16 10:02:15 i've cached 2363 users, 2000 unique users, distributed over 41 channels. Sep 16 10:02:57 ~seen rmrfchik Sep 16 10:02:57 rmrfchik is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen rmrfchik'. Sep 16 10:11:45 is it possible, that chmod doesnt work under n900? Sep 16 10:12:10 is it possible you tried chmod to a VFAT based file? Sep 16 10:12:27 uh lemme check :D Sep 16 10:12:32 lcuk: Yeah. Still Symbian, but I'm planning on trying some Qt Mobility cross-platform dev Sep 16 10:14:25 uhm MyDocs is vfat... Sep 16 10:15:08 known factoid Sep 16 10:17:00 Jaffa, when you said "pushing for more Qt-based development and integration which can give us cross-platform applications." are you thinking of c++/qt only or all languages and using qt framework ? Sep 16 10:17:29 Khertan: All. I'm all for developer flexibility Sep 16 10:17:55 Khertan: Certainly I prefer Python over C++ (but I'm going to give the SDK with C++ a good test before finally deciding my own personal language of choice) Sep 16 10:18:27 Khertan: And that expands to allowing things like having inter-package dependencies in "MeeGo compliant" packages. See the discussion on meego-dev about this recently. Sep 16 10:19:23 Jaffa, good to hear :) I have been playing with qt mobility myself recently :) Sep 16 10:19:33 what colour did you get? Sep 16 10:19:47 i ask because finally some details make some differences as we got a long list of good Candidates :) Sep 16 10:20:06 :) Sep 16 10:20:14 thx for the answer :) (i like it) Sep 16 10:21:18 Jaffa, havign a simplified standard C style library API fronting qt code would be ideal for many qt things Sep 16 10:21:46 it would allow interop between many more languages (since its easy to add bindings between X and Y using normal libraries) Sep 16 10:22:23 lcuk: Only dark grey was the choice Sep 16 10:22:40 Jaffa, matches the suits of course :) Sep 16 10:22:51 a nice Nokia blue one would be cool Sep 16 10:22:53 :) Sep 16 10:32:23 ~moo Sep 16 10:32:24 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Sep 16 10:32:42 hey Doc Sep 16 10:36:10 Hy, where can I find Maemo Diablo Ubuntu Intrepid _Desktop_ virtual SDK image Sep 16 10:36:48 i can only find the server version here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php Sep 16 10:38:09 Jaffa, and any other longtime members, would you care to add a note onto this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62347 Sep 16 10:38:18 "Maemo highlights over the years" Sep 16 10:38:25 described as epic :D Sep 16 10:38:34 flexxxv: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation Sep 16 10:38:59 Anyone know what the "enable Extras out-of-the-box" bug # is? Sep 16 10:39:00 hi merlin1991 \o Sep 16 10:39:26 hey lcuk "\o" ? Sep 16 10:39:41 Jaffa: exactly what it says? Sep 16 10:39:55 aaah #, sorry Sep 16 10:40:05 heh, inline replies in richtext mails are kinda annoying when sender doesnt show whats a quote and whats added reply Sep 16 10:41:03 frals: discard Sep 16 10:41:03 morning all btw o/ Sep 16 10:41:37 DocScrutinizer: I only can find the server image Sep 16 10:42:13 but I know I download the desktop image some time ago :( Sep 16 10:42:46 Jaffa: can I PM you? Sep 16 10:43:06 flexxxv: sorry, 3 out of 4 buzzwords weren't my domain exactly Sep 16 10:43:49 flexxxv: anyway you should rephrase your question, it's been not very clear Sep 16 10:44:54 or maybe clear but not very eyecatchy Sep 16 10:44:54 ok: I'm looking for the download advertised on this page: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/installation.html . If I follow the link I cant find the image of: Maemo Diablo/Fremantle Ubuntu Karmic Desktop virtual SDK image Sep 16 10:46:31 flexxxv, I had that problem too some time ago, that vm image tends to dissappear when a new one is about to come out Sep 16 10:46:41 all you can do is wait untill the next version is there Sep 16 10:47:06 merlin1991: really? this is strange :-/ Sep 16 10:47:09 merlin1991, flexxxv - ok has there been a bug filed against this? Sep 16 10:47:17 somone has a mirror of it? Sep 16 10:47:17 is it possible to actually take the older VMware image Sep 16 10:47:23 and update it to fremantle Sep 16 10:47:27 and then repush it? Sep 16 10:47:52 I know a few people have looked for this now Sep 16 10:48:13 Jaffa, i cant find that bug # either Sep 16 10:48:14 I did some time ago, then there was a link there and I got a dl :D Sep 16 10:48:25 now it's gone again Sep 16 10:48:35 last time there was a notice somewhere on the forums though Sep 16 10:49:41 merlin1991: could you mirror it? Sep 16 10:50:16 yup, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Server_SDK_Virtual_Image.zip seems all that's offered there Sep 16 10:50:20 flexxxv, sure, but not atm, don't wanna kill my data plan on the n900 :P Sep 16 10:50:20 lcuk: I've got an updated PR1.2 image for VMware somewhere, ready for the London Open Source Jumpstart event. But a) I'm not really allowed to redistribute it since it contains nokia-apps, and b) it's quite big and may not be perfect. Sep 16 10:50:29 It's really a question for danielwilms Sep 16 10:51:44 Jaffa: who made this image? Sep 16 10:52:21 http://www.torrentz.com/fbc202c3c7d832e0b947dff4e861d374f441e631 Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z Torrent Sep 16 10:52:46 HTH Sep 16 10:52:49 flexxxv: I did. I took the PR1.1 one and updated it. Sep 16 10:53:03 http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&source=hp&q=Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid Sep 16 10:54:15 btw how do you update the sdk actually? Sep 16 10:54:39 merlin1991: It's in the release notes of each SDK. Basically apt-get dist-upgrade (isH) Sep 16 10:54:46 DocScrutinizer: nice but this is outdated :-/ Sep 16 10:54:58 then find a better one Sep 16 10:55:22 DocScrutinizer: I can't. thx anyway Sep 16 10:55:37 Jaffe: would you mind to share? Sep 16 10:56:43 Jaffa, great, if danielwilms could clarify and we can contact the owners of the "official" one then perhaps your image could be uploaded/sent_on_dvd for uploading Sep 16 10:57:20 as we know, its not about perfect, but having a vm image that is usable is important Sep 16 11:01:09 just found the orig 7z files on my pc :D Sep 16 11:01:27 so I have the karmic desktop image Sep 16 11:01:43 so lucky that i havn't deleted it Sep 16 11:01:57 holy crap! Sep 16 11:01:59 I'm not allowed to mirror it right? Sep 16 11:02:08 it took 6000 views for someone to work out how this works Sep 16 11:02:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM Sep 16 11:02:23 flexxxv, idk Sep 16 11:03:34 what an awesome comment from lma: Sep 16 11:03:36 and especially Sep 16 11:03:36 * the 1e6+1 things people made (and keep making) these devices do that their designers never even thought of or intended. Sep 16 11:03:45 flexxxv: Ah, I may have "tidied" them up Sep 16 11:04:45 gnhnhnhn http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2 ABANDONED PROJECT - Scratchbox 2 Sep 16 11:05:16 flexxxv: Ah, no: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z (1.4GB) - in conjunction with http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jaffa/Jumpstart Sep 16 11:06:30 DocScrutinizer:thx for info Sep 16 11:07:17 Jaffa: ithink I'll use the karmic image Sep 16 11:15:05 Icons in /usr/share/icons/hildon/scalable/hildon should have which size? 64x64 or just svg? Sep 16 11:15:22 hrw: 64x64 Sep 16 11:15:27 thx Sep 16 11:16:07 lcuk: watching all those liqbase vids' topics just gave me an idea you may implement easily (if you haven't done yet): You know the game "memory" with all the cards placed on desk face down, and you have to find pairs with same picture? with invar you can pick two virtual cards and look what's their pictures. Sep 16 11:17:19 DocScrutinizer, the a4 page that the video shows, i use that to make notes on Sep 16 11:17:37 and take photos of it, using invar, i can put my n900 on a blank piece of paper Sep 16 11:17:49 and then have the n900 move around andshow where the original stuff was Sep 16 11:17:52 :) Sep 16 11:18:31 yeah, for memory game you just need to hide the real pictures and show them on buttonclick Sep 16 11:20:53 yeah DocScrutinizer Sep 16 11:21:17 lcuk: you minf the cards are placed on desk, face down, on a desk in random order, and there's always (iirc) 4 of each picture, and you may take away a pair if you opened 2 identical pictures Sep 16 11:21:58 I wonder if http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/examples.html got proofread, dbus and embedded have title and description swapped Sep 16 11:29:42 lcuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfXEMW0jm3U Sep 16 11:30:57 http://www.ravensburger-memory.de/?gclid=CJz-5q7si6QCFUkrDgodhXOkHQ Sep 16 11:50:12 RST38h: ping Sep 16 11:53:08 pyqt4 and strings == argh Sep 16 12:03:50 Maemo meeting on now - please consider joinng #maemo-meeting to let people know what you want to happen on maemo.org in coming months Sep 16 12:04:20 Thanks dneary Sep 16 12:06:15 Stskeeps, how do these weekly builds work? if a build doesn't succeed, will the next one come on next wednesday, or any day of the week when it's ready? Sep 16 12:06:23 Stskeeps, of Meego I mean. Sep 16 12:06:26 next wednesday Sep 16 12:06:34 Stskeeps, k, thanks. Sep 16 12:09:26 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=817817#post817817 - only for brave ApMeFo users ;D Sep 16 12:15:09 DocScrutinizer: have a look at my version in free time Sep 16 12:16:26 hrw: I considered adding a note about that annoying maemo desktop scroller bug eating your CPU & battery, but I noticed I don't even have a bug# Sep 16 12:17:16 s/maemo desktop/hildon desktop Sep 16 12:21:27 DocScrutinizer: but what it has to do with apmefo? Sep 16 12:22:25 it doesn't show with 'normal' applauncher menu, as it needs a screen less the size of the display. This is only happening with apmefo/catorise etc Sep 16 12:24:28 hmm, guys litle question, using power kernel and cups is working for anybody? Sep 16 12:24:34 my cups isnt starting anymore -.- Sep 16 12:26:07 anyone know if seat zones 301, 302, 315 and 316 Sep 16 12:26:36 are Sep 16 12:26:48 are any good? Sep 16 12:30:29 hum .... my of tea see ... Sep 16 12:30:41 i see .... Sep 16 12:30:56 the seat 315 is near to the seat 316 Sep 16 12:31:18 and 301 should be one just behing the 300 Sep 16 12:34:40 wtf are you guys talking about? :P Sep 16 12:35:05 That's strange. First time that happened. My N900 went flat when the only thing it was doing was sitting idle, on charge in PC Suite Mode. Sep 16 12:35:26 I think it's jealous of my HTC Desire :P Sep 16 12:44:00 Termana: were you doing tethering? Sep 16 12:45:21 SpeedEvil, yeah (with pc suite mode, not wifi tethering), but its never been a problem before. It would normally charge it before. Sep 16 12:50:54 Termana: If you're heavily using tethering, it can eat more power that way than it gets charging Sep 16 13:12:16 afternoon chaps Sep 16 13:13:17 lo lardman Sep 16 13:13:29 (lo SpeedEvil ) Sep 16 13:14:20 hi docscrutinizer Sep 16 13:14:21 \o lardman Sep 16 13:14:34 hey lcuk, how's things? Sep 16 13:15:59 andre__, good point! Sep 16 13:16:10 ECHan Sep 16 13:17:33 aight! Sep 16 13:17:39 DocScrutinizer, not really, cant talk in -meeting! Sep 16 13:18:17 lardman: lcuk is busy in a chan that just made me learn a lesson: massive c&P spamming can sometimes just make users "touch that dial" Sep 16 13:18:19 lardman, good Sep 16 13:19:57 lcuk: seems there's no chanlogs of #maemo-meeting :-/ Sep 16 13:20:04 shall I mention how rubbish the maps app is, as I happened to need to use it today while leaving Cardiff Sep 16 13:20:06 yes DocScrutinizer there is Sep 16 13:20:12 :( lardman Sep 16 13:29:46 is there a howto for using the maemo virtualbox sdk? Sep 16 13:30:10 I tried an app but xephyr is constanty segfaulting Sep 16 13:32:05 seems i miss the maemo meeting again Sep 16 13:34:42 Khertan, it's still going on Sep 16 13:35:19 yep but miss the start ... as usual :) Sep 16 13:35:35 i should stop playing with alarmd Sep 16 13:44:15 Khertan: lcuk claims there's chanlogs. Maybe he tels you where to find Sep 16 13:45:27 everyone got their council vote token ? Sep 16 13:45:33 i still didn't received mine Sep 16 13:45:43 none here Sep 16 13:45:56 no idea if I'm entitled for one Sep 16 13:54:31 heyo :) Sep 16 13:59:02 Heyo Sep 16 14:04:01 lcuk: SpeedEvil: luke-jr: DocScrutinizer51: For what it's worth, I think I managed to convince the neopwn guy to open source the project Sep 16 14:05:07 thats worth an awful lot crashanddie :) and 1000x better than the past, I don't think people will have a problem with donations etc either! Sep 16 14:05:35 yeah Sep 16 14:05:55 crashanddie: congrats Sep 16 14:06:06 I'm still releasing the driver in repackaged format, which doesn't require the chroot Sep 16 14:06:21 and then working on getting a GPL-valid version (either by writing it myself or decompiling) Sep 16 14:06:33 Anyone know what kind of VNC server to use for the VNCviewer app? RealVNC/TightVNC/UltraVNC? Does it matter? Sep 16 14:07:07 Tott3[AEX]: it's same crap Sep 16 14:07:07 From what the neopwn guy explained, it's the developer withholding the source code (which is what we suspected all along) Sep 16 14:07:13 ah okay Sep 16 14:07:15 cheers Sep 16 14:07:22 Tott3[AEX]: use nx Sep 16 14:07:27 Tott3[AEX]: it's much better Sep 16 14:07:40 homepage? Sep 16 14:08:05 lmgtfy.com/?q=nx Sep 16 14:08:58 Theres like a million hits;> And lots of diffrent shit:P Sep 16 14:09:05 Is it nomachine? Sep 16 14:10:06 yep Sep 16 14:10:07 Sep 16 14:12:02 Only has Linux or Solaris servers, i'm running Windows Q_Q Sep 16 14:12:13 ehlo javispedro Sep 16 14:12:40 helo (I do not speak ESMTP) Sep 16 14:12:41 ah Sep 16 14:12:45 then use rdesktop Sep 16 14:12:50 don't use vnc Sep 16 14:13:44 missed the meeting :( *checks logs* Sep 16 14:14:17 ok, I think I finally managed the brick the N900 for real D: Sep 16 14:14:27 it's in a reboot loop Sep 16 14:14:33 that's not brick Sep 16 14:14:36 you can flash it Sep 16 14:14:46 it doesn't go into the USB mode Sep 16 14:14:49 The Final Reboot (horror) Sep 16 14:14:56 joppu: you're doing it wrong Sep 16 14:15:00 joppu: switch it off Sep 16 14:15:08 joppu: press u Sep 16 14:15:11 connect usb cable Sep 16 14:15:24 jacekowski, that's what she said Sep 16 14:15:41 trust me, I have flashed this like 4 or so times before this happened Sep 16 14:15:57 the litte USB icon is nowhere to be found Sep 16 14:16:07 and the phone just reboots itself Sep 16 14:16:47 i think i have a bricked n800 lol right after i flashed it. to an older .bin Sep 16 14:16:48 logs of the recent meeting at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/latest.log.html , btw. Sep 16 14:18:03 joppu: you're doing it wrong Sep 16 14:18:12 joppu: unless your usb port is broken Sep 16 14:18:22 do a cold flash Sep 16 14:18:29 joppu: trust us, we've heard that 100 times, and it always was possible to reflash Sep 16 14:19:30 doc so if my n800 doesnt turn on, or if i connect the charger, the light doesnt turn on, i can reflash it? Sep 16 14:20:21 CiNc018: I have no access to a N800, so sorry but no definitive answer from me Sep 16 14:20:55 oh ok Sep 16 14:21:21 CiNc018: check your battery Sep 16 14:21:41 bergie, ping? Sep 16 14:21:50 dneary: pong Sep 16 14:22:18 i do remember noticing that when it went to shut down, after reflashing an old .bin, the screen faded totally different.. Sep 16 14:23:14 bergie, Looking at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4491 Sep 16 14:23:15 Bug 4491: s/Itt/Talk/g on profile pages Sep 16 14:24:18 Did it fade to white while simultaneously losing brightness and thus become black? Sep 16 14:24:22 doc if i plug in the charger without the batt, would it turn on? Sep 16 14:24:30 no Sep 16 14:24:43 bergie, in midgard-data/style/maemo2009/profile/show-full-account.php, we have: Sep 16 14:24:44 not afaik Sep 16 14:24:58 bergie, http://pastebin.ca/1942117 Sep 16 14:25:15 shad, it was like fading lines straight up n down, and it had the nokia on the screen. Sep 16 14:25:37 N8x0 charge subsystem scares me. It wouldn't surprise me if plugging in charger with no battery would do harm :) Sep 16 14:25:51 yep Sep 16 14:26:15 bergie, karma_modules gets initialised like this: http://pastebin.ca/1942119 Sep 16 14:27:02 So if it's using net_nehmer_account_karma_dba, can I guess that the "itt_thanks" and "itt"posts" strings are coming from a database field? Sep 16 14:27:24 If so, would it be possible to change the field to "talk_thanks" and "talk_posts"? Sep 16 14:27:40 I don't have access to the midgard database Sep 16 14:27:48 (at least, I don't think I do) Sep 16 14:27:59 I'd go with "check your battery" though. Those Polymer batteries wear out fast Sep 16 14:28:27 And I suspect that would also break stuff in the karma plug-ins which would need fixing (in midgard-data/snippets/karma_plugins) Sep 16 14:29:25 dneary: we can also just rename it on the template level Sep 16 14:29:27 dneary: wouldn't it be better to change the code displaying the webpage, to include a proper label rather than a generic database field name? Sep 16 14:30:03 bergie, You mean "if name='itt_thanks' then print 'Thank thanks'? Sep 16 14:30:13 something like that, yes Sep 16 14:30:16 Sorry - "print 'Talk thanks'" Sep 16 14:30:36 seems kind of hackish doesn't it? Especially when the labels are auto-generated otherwise Sep 16 14:30:43 And it was kind of designed like that Sep 16 14:30:49 dneary: changing field names in a database looks dangerous to me Sep 16 14:31:06 DocScrutinizer: Not field names Sep 16 14:31:24 DocScrutinizer: Object attribute's value Sep 16 14:31:26 dneary: the whole karma plugin is still "itt". We could of course rename it and trigger karma recount, but that takes a while Sep 16 14:31:34 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/midgard-data/snippets/karma_plugins/itt.php?root=maemo2midgard&view=markup Sep 16 14:31:41 bergie, Seems like the best way to do it, though Sep 16 14:32:06 I don't mind variable names called $itt Sep 16 14:32:48 I wonder how much of my development of making this look and work nicely on Maemo will actually go across to MeeGo in the end. Sep 16 14:32:56 jacekowski: yeah, I think it *might* be the USB connector since it's got very flimsy Sep 16 14:33:00 But if we could change the constraionts (line 72, 123) to talk_thanks & talk_posts, I think that would fix the bug, no? Sep 16 14:33:05 Especially with all that M* stuff :/ Sep 16 14:33:14 I'm not sure if it's feeding power correctly Sep 16 14:33:20 Although how would that affect the contents of the itt_thanks & _posts fields? Sep 16 14:33:31 joppu: I heard it doesn't go into flashing mode with insufficient battery power, and it doesn't charge when in reboot loop... oh and I guess intact usb connector is a must :) Sep 16 14:33:40 currently recharging the battery in another N900 unit Sep 16 14:33:58 DocScrutinizer: At least, from what I understand of Midgard there's no risk involved (bergie, perhaps you can confirm or refute?) Sep 16 14:34:07 dneary: gotta go, ping me about this tomorrow and I'll fix it Sep 16 14:34:17 ShadowJK: not if you've got certain other Nokia models Sep 16 14:34:36 dneary: changing karma module names is not a problem, though then we need to either rename or remove karma stored with old module name Sep 16 14:34:36 ShadowJK, In my opinion this is the worst thing about the N900 - it's software charging bullshit. Sep 16 14:34:41 You can use the N810 to charge the N900's battery as you can with the 5800 and the E70 can do it I think,. Sep 16 14:36:43 Termana, oh the other nokias have software charging too, it's just harder to shoot yourself in the foot since you can't modify the os easily :) Sep 16 14:37:06 Termana: huh? Sep 16 14:37:23 N900 actually has NO sw charging Sep 16 14:37:31 Android smartphones will charge even if you fscked it. The iPhone does the same sort of emergency charging scenario as the N900 (charge until you have enough power to try and boot), but I don't know weather software is necessary after that. Sep 16 14:37:56 well, N900 has hw charging, the hw boots nolo when battery power is sufficient, nolo keeps charger on until it thinks it can boot os, it boots os, os crashes, no more charging Sep 16 14:38:51 yo Sep 16 14:38:56 ShadowJK, it is still crap, no matter the exact specifics. It was oversight to not allow it to charge while off, imo. Sep 16 14:38:58 well, os crash itself doesn't stop charging, but if nolo tells hw to stop charging in preparation for handover to os.. and os crash causes reset :) Sep 16 14:39:09 nevertheless it's hw charging with a watchdog Sep 16 14:39:55 see I did say it might not be a good idea to leave out initfs when I first heard n900 wouldn't have one :) Sep 16 14:40:15 it's simply the watchdog that kicks in when OS is crashing, nothing else Sep 16 14:40:22 hmm, the people asking for pr1.3 will be kicked is missing in topic lulz Sep 16 14:40:29 :D Sep 16 14:40:46 question from #maemo-devel Sep 16 14:40:53 Hi ! I'am conceiving an Hildon interface for a maemo python app. Even it looks extremly ridiculous, i'am having trouble finding a list of the stock icons available on Maemo and how to include these in my app. Can anyone help me finding the right place where this is documented ? I just want to put icons on some hildon.buttons :/ . Anyway thanks for your help :) Sep 16 14:41:08 now I found this for him http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/gtk-stock-items.html Sep 16 14:41:16 I'm pretty damn sure a 5800 wont charge either if you go and fuck up the OS Sep 16 14:41:22 but thye arent working, any pygtk devs around Khertan hint hint :P Sep 16 14:41:44 ShadowJK: actually most "phones" have sw charging Sep 16 14:42:01 as OS isn't supposed to crash Sep 16 14:42:25 and a separate "cpu" controlling the charger hw is expensive Sep 16 14:43:10 so N900 charging is way better than what you'll usually find Sep 16 14:44:48 ooh, you already said most of that :-) Sep 16 14:44:51 bring back initfs! Sep 16 14:44:58 DocScrutinizer, Android handsets seem to do fine. Sep 16 14:45:48 after some charging, it's now working! :D Sep 16 14:46:24 see, this is what happens when Nokia listens, thet listened to the people not wanting initfs and killed it :( Sep 16 14:46:25 ;-P Sep 16 14:46:49 we have initrd still Sep 16 14:46:50 :P Sep 16 14:47:23 Stskeeps, yeah but act dead thing is outside initrd Sep 16 14:47:35 yeah Sep 16 14:47:40 always been in rootfs i think Sep 16 14:47:42 >:-( Sep 16 14:48:04 initrd has been replaced with initramfs Sep 16 14:48:05 so when people fuck up shit on rootfs you kill charging too Sep 16 14:48:15 DocScrutinizer, if you have a phone that is able to charge right up without booting would that suggest it has this 'expensive extra cpu'? Sep 16 14:48:27 otoh when somebody mamaged to fsck up rootfs, why assume he was gentle to initrd? Sep 16 14:48:31 are there any simple instructions on how to run the sdk? I can't run the demo qt2ddrawing app Sep 16 14:48:58 Termana, it's a question putting the charging code somewhere where the user can't go and kill it Sep 16 14:49:04 question of* Sep 16 14:49:06 Termana: you are not in a position to tell if it booted at all Sep 16 14:49:32 Hi ! I'am conceiving an Hildon interface for a maemo python app. Even it looks extremly ridiculous, i'am having trouble finding a list of the stock icons available on Maemo and how to include these in my app. Can anyone help me finding the right place where this is documented ? I just want to put icons on some hildon.buttons :/ . Anyway thanks for your help :) Sep 16 14:49:56 DocScrutinizer, ShadowJK, no I'm not I guess. Is it possible that it would power on the radio cpu and use that? Sep 16 14:50:15 actually all featurephones I know of have no real power down mode (off/shutdown). They simply enter another operation mode, and system 'boots' as soon as you insert battery Sep 16 14:50:16 Termana, it's possible it's done in the bootloader even Sep 16 14:52:19 I suspect nokia wanted to push it as far ahead as possible, so that charging->poweron became lots faster than off>poweron.. Sep 16 14:53:18 ShadowJK, they failed at that too. Trying to turn my N900 on while its on the charger makes it go spastic, rebooting several times and occasionally going back to idle charging or occasionally deciding then to boot Sep 16 14:53:19 my s60 devices switch on frighteningly fast from "charging" too Sep 16 14:53:37 ShadowJK: you're aware you can even configure to run SSU updates during act_dead ? Sep 16 14:53:58 ShadowJK: well, on s60 i had alternative menu Sep 16 14:54:04 makes sense to run it in the most minimal state :) Sep 16 14:54:16 ShadowJK: and i could use phone normally when charging Sep 16 14:54:22 ShadowJK: i mean, switched off phone Sep 16 14:54:34 ShadowJK: when it normally would ask me for pin Sep 16 14:54:50 but because of alternative launcher i could use it normally Sep 16 14:54:59 but it would shut down as soon as charger was removed Sep 16 14:55:02 it just goes instantly to pin query for me iirc :) Sep 16 14:57:14 the main 'issue' just is the missing parameter flash on bq24150. If you could flash a prom to set power-on defaults to - say - 4.1V instead of 3.7V everything would be much nicer Sep 16 14:58:15 well, Gaia would still boot nolo once voltage is high enough, and nolo would boot user-messed os :) Sep 16 14:58:25 extend recovery charge timeout from 32 minutes to say 180 min, and fine you are Sep 16 14:59:19 well, nolo can be stopped Sep 16 14:59:22 if you press u Sep 16 14:59:26 ShadowJK: yes, but then you basically could leave bq24150 completely unattended, no more need for a friggin bme basically Sep 16 14:59:27 and nolo will keep charging Sep 16 15:00:11 jacekowski: I should actually go and confirm this, right now Sep 16 15:00:29 DocScrutinizer, do it with a 36xx mV battery too :) Sep 16 15:00:33 or lower Sep 16 15:00:44 got no such battery :-P Sep 16 15:01:12 jacekowski: you got any numbers for NOLO setting bq charging to? Sep 16 15:01:27 well it takes less than 60 minutes at max load to get such a battery ;) Sep 16 15:01:45 joppu: did you hold in u the first time you tried flash? Sep 16 15:01:45 too long for me right now Sep 16 15:03:28 Termana: you seem to have a thoroughly messed up system Sep 16 15:04:40 Termana: I admit screen and LED action on boot is rather puzzling, but if you don't mess with power button assuming you have to redo power-on, it will start up correctly for me every time Sep 16 15:06:11 just don't press power button a second time when screen goes all black for several seconds Sep 16 15:06:25 it's not dead, it's booting X-P Sep 16 15:06:31 guess what happens when you hold it in :D Sep 16 15:06:42 :P Sep 16 15:07:09 duh what? holding power button for 60s or what? Sep 16 15:07:21 Are you suppose to just tap it while its idle charging? :P Cause I DO hold it, as if I was about to start from cold boot Sep 16 15:07:42 you have to hold it for couple seconds Sep 16 15:07:43 that's all Sep 16 15:08:11 to be precise you have to hold it until ramping up white power-up light finished Sep 16 15:08:20 Hmm, well I guess I might be holding it a little too long and that might explain the erratic behaviour. Sep 16 15:08:43 i thought holding it forced shutdown Sep 16 15:09:07 if it's acting_dead then it might Sep 16 15:09:42 acting_dead though is clearly indicated by flashing-yellow or constant-green LED Sep 16 15:10:12 i thought nolo also did flashing yellow Sep 16 15:10:13 what's the max drying temperature of a n900 Sep 16 15:10:22 Drying? Sep 16 15:10:35 and I think whenever I "power up" from act_dead state, there's no confusion about how long to hold the button, when looking at indicator LED Sep 16 15:10:58 max environmntal temperature while turned off, SpeedEvil Sep 16 15:11:02 pupnik: 60°c Sep 16 15:11:42 Battery out it can probably take a bit more Sep 16 15:12:09 that's what I was pondering Sep 16 15:12:11 what components are the most heat sensitive Sep 16 15:12:13 Re: hiding charging code on devices - where is this to on the N900 for emergency charging? Since I haven't needed to do emergency charging yet, I'm not sure weather it starts up the white NOLO screen or not Sep 16 15:12:24 pupnik: LCD probably, and case. Sep 16 15:12:28 LCD and backup cell Sep 16 15:12:37 Bacup cell really? Sep 16 15:12:49 i thought they are grenerally good to 120 or so Sep 16 15:12:50 and case of course, though that shouldn't suffer even from 100° Sep 16 15:13:29 dunno about touchpanel, and speakers Sep 16 15:13:49 60 must be well within safety margin considering how full-sunlight affects the case Sep 16 15:14:01 generally speaking, you don't want nor need >60° Sep 16 15:14:15 Sun in a hot car Sep 16 15:14:36 ...can kill the LiPo :-P Sep 16 15:14:54 can even kill vinyl records Sep 16 15:15:44 meh, got things to do... o/ Sep 16 15:16:36 I've had it working at 331K Sep 16 15:16:49 57C Sep 16 15:16:54 in greenhouse logging GPS Sep 16 15:18:22 Termana, hw charging is solid bright yellow. The software switches that off and activates the flashing/pulsing Sep 16 15:18:32 currently recharging the battery in another N900 unit so I know the drill Sep 16 15:18:46 it was the battery that was the issu Sep 16 15:18:52 joppu: so did you hold u first time? Sep 16 15:19:02 ShadowJK, so what your saying is that the N900 IS able to charge without any software at all? Sep 16 15:19:03 casette tapes warp in sun Sep 16 15:19:16 it couldn't charge in the reboot loop and therefore refured to flash Sep 16 15:19:22 Termana, yes Sep 16 15:19:57 ShadowJK: Oh, yeah, I fucked up with the irssi's backlog, but I tried to say that I did hold U Sep 16 15:20:28 Termana, though the hw charger's eeprom is programmed eith parameters that don't result in a 100% charge, and I think it stops after 32 minutes Sep 16 15:21:31 ShadowJK, what about smartphones that allow full charging without booting into userspace - do they most likely use hidden code to charge? Sep 16 15:21:36 ShadowJK: would be nice if it *were* an EEPROM Sep 16 15:21:42 dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /opt/NokiaQtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/sysroots/fremantle-arm-sysroot-10.2010.19-1-slim/lib/libm.so.6 Sep 16 15:21:45 :(( Sep 16 15:22:18 DocScrutinizer, oops yeah for sure Sep 16 15:22:20 Termana: please read backscroll, all has been elaborated some 30min back Sep 16 15:23:13 Termana, I'd suspect the bootloader does it, or they actually boot into userpace with no UI or network services activated.. Sep 16 15:23:42 ShadowJK: usually #2 Sep 16 15:23:43 Or have slightly smarter 'hardware'. Sep 16 15:23:49 For example, an embedded controller. Sep 16 15:23:50 Termana, what phones? Sep 16 15:24:13 all Symbian phones boot up without loading the UI when charging Sep 16 15:24:31 there's even a hack that allows you to start extra apps while charging Sep 16 15:24:36 domainsrv.exe afaik Sep 16 15:24:42 which also was stated clearly by me some 30min ago Sep 16 15:24:42 MohammadAG51, I'm specifically looking at the Nexus One/HTC Desire which has an TPS65023 integrated Power Management IC Sep 16 15:25:14 DocScrutinizer, sorry, wasn't there Sep 16 15:25:20 Termana: so RTFM of TPS65023 Sep 16 15:25:28 Termana, never seen those Sep 16 15:25:43 ~debian Termana Sep 16 15:25:43 * infobot tells Termana to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Sep 16 15:25:44 :P Sep 16 15:25:48 Termana, DocScrutinizer's battery hotswap hack actually relies on shutting down bme (the charge software) and waiting for the hw charger to notice software control went away, at which point it reverts back to independent operation and will supply power to system when you swap batteries :-) Sep 16 15:25:52 Termana: Read the datasheet. Sep 16 15:26:10 http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tps65023.html Sep 16 15:26:15 ShadowJK: exactly Sep 16 15:26:23 bme otherwise shuts down n900 if it notices you removed battery ;p Sep 16 15:27:01 which btw is the reason hotswap works only for relatively depleted batteries Sep 16 15:27:20 as otherwise bq24150 won't even start charging Sep 16 15:27:59 a professional bme replacement should be made Sep 16 15:28:12 what for??? Sep 16 15:28:13 ShadowJK implied ages back that it was possible to write the capacity register in some manner. Sep 16 15:28:38 DocScrutinizer, jrbme is a script, not automatic, plus it'd help on alternative OSs Sep 16 15:28:46 Perhaps the voltage threshold registers can also be written - though tehy would normally be initialised - wrongly - from flash. Sep 16 15:28:46 SpeedEvil: yeah I remember, though this isn't related here Sep 16 15:28:50 eventually we'll need those Sep 16 15:29:32 SpeedEvil, the capacity register of bq27200 can be modified through some hoops Sep 16 15:29:54 SpeedEvil: rewriting threshold registers is exactly what is done and starts watchdog host controlled mode (I2C mode) Sep 16 15:30:29 MohammadAG51: what's wrong with a script? and what stops you from starting a script in system-init? Sep 16 15:30:54 idk, I prefer C daemons over sh ones Sep 16 15:31:08 that's your cup of thea Sep 16 15:31:11 tea even Sep 16 15:31:31 I prefer strawberry over vanilla icecream Sep 16 15:31:46 ah Sep 16 15:31:49 but anyway, for hotswap you probably want to do: disable charger, set 1250 mA charge current, set no limit input current, set disable termination, set regulation voltage to higher than current battery voltage, enable charging, tell user to swap battery Sep 16 15:32:30 ShadowJK: good plan Sep 16 15:33:02 a bit complex and some dangerous dark corners, but smart Sep 16 15:33:48 yeah it's a bit unproper if user wants to swap away full batt :) Sep 16 15:37:05 other issues: USB host VBUS overload, abort of script in between (user changed his mind, doesn't swap) Sep 16 15:37:44 * DocScrutinizer waves Sep 16 15:55:31 Urgh, just got called by carphonewarehouse inquiring about an upgrade. Sep 16 15:55:47 alterego: n901? Sep 16 15:56:13 could someone tell me why do i get the following error while trying to flash n900? Sep 16 15:56:15 unable to execute /usr/bin/flasher-3.5 : No such file or directory Sep 16 15:56:25 you need to install the flasher Sep 16 15:56:26 :P Sep 16 15:56:32 it's installed Sep 16 15:56:55 not there, obviously :P Sep 16 15:57:18 installed it with sudo dpkg -i --force-architecture maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb Sep 16 15:57:21 th3hate: are you running 64bit OS? Sep 16 15:57:25 yep Sep 16 15:57:36 Do you have 32bit support installed? Sep 16 15:57:44 Because the flasher binary is 32bit Sep 16 15:57:44 running live cde Sep 16 15:57:46 cd* Sep 16 15:58:04 Well, maybe you should try with a 32bit live cd Sep 16 15:59:49 it worked last time i tried.. used ubuntu x64 live cd Sep 16 16:00:21 th3hate, apt-get install ia32-libs and retry Sep 16 16:00:31 ubuntu probably has ia32-libs installed. Sep 16 16:00:31 merlin1991, thanks Sep 16 16:01:00 alterego, using the same live cd i used last time Sep 16 16:01:01 alterego, it didn't some time ago when I tried to install enemy territory :) Sep 16 16:01:40 merlin1991, E: Package ia32-libs has no installation candidate Sep 16 16:02:32 th3hate: I don't think you can do that with a live cd .. Sep 16 16:02:39 Install packages that is. Sep 16 16:02:42 However the following packages replace it: Sep 16 16:02:42 lib32z1 lib32ncurses5 lib32bz2-1.0 lib32asound2 Sep 16 16:02:45 should i try? Sep 16 16:02:49 No Sep 16 16:03:19 The package does exist. Sep 16 16:03:43 yeah http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/ia32-libs Sep 16 16:05:34 so it's a waste of time to try flashing on a 64bit laptop with a live cd? Sep 16 16:06:03 just use a 32bit live cd? :D Sep 16 16:06:22 ehh.. too lazy to download 800Mb again :( Sep 16 16:06:58 looks like there's no workaround though Sep 16 16:07:17 why do you need the live cd in the first case? Sep 16 16:07:48 That reminds me, I really need to download this Windows 7 DVD at some point. Sep 16 16:07:58 don't want to partition harddisk for native install Sep 16 16:08:09 can't you use the installed os? Sep 16 16:08:35 win7 64 bit Sep 16 16:09:03 :/ Sep 16 16:09:22 i'll try to run mint distop via VMware Sep 16 16:09:27 distro* Sep 16 16:09:34 may work Sep 16 16:19:34 th3hate: if you can VM, you can even install the 64 bit ubuntu, you just have to install ia32-libs once it's installed. Sep 16 16:27:01 alterego, flash via vmware worked well with a 64bit image Sep 16 16:28:10 alterego, but live cd's are not reliable :P Sep 16 16:28:38 It would have been fine if it was a 32 bit one :P Sep 16 16:31:26 a reason to hate emacs : https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/khweeteur_0.0.32-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Sep 16 16:39:17 Khertan, you're the developer of khweeteur (spelling?) :P? Sep 16 16:45:11 Interesting, only 20 episodes in the late 24 .. Sep 16 17:08:23 crashanddie: ah well, I was going to go ask if donating $10-$20 would help, but I'm still banned (#Pentoo ) Sep 16 17:11:50 holy shit! Sep 16 17:11:59 frals, they build this for you: Sep 16 17:12:01 http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/11767 Sep 16 17:12:39 lol Sep 16 17:28:22 Quick question, pyside of pyqt? Sep 16 17:28:27 s/of/or Sep 16 17:28:42 th3hate, yep :) Sep 16 17:29:11 lardman, depends on what you want to do Sep 16 17:29:23 Khertan, great work so far. i suggest adding a fullscreen option because i hate the look of the taskbar Sep 16 17:29:24 Python with a Qt ui Sep 16 17:30:16 for user ready app PyQt Sep 16 17:30:25 for user full of bugs app PySide :) Sep 16 17:30:33 * Khertan is away Sep 16 17:30:37 good evening Sep 16 17:30:39 thanks Khertan :) Sep 16 17:31:02 th3hate, why not, easy to do :) Sep 16 17:31:16 Khertan, would be nice Sep 16 17:31:28 Khertan, i also like the gray theme Sep 16 17:52:22 how's life DocScrutinizer and you n900 and FR? Sep 16 17:52:48 fredrin: thanks, fine Sep 16 17:53:04 good Sep 16 17:53:36 I installed syncevolutin on my N900. As I don't understand the calendar-Sync, I have to ask - can I now sync my ubuntu-Evolution Calendar with my N900? Sep 16 17:54:47 or do I have to install syncevolution on the ubuntu too? Sep 16 17:56:39 syncevolution *is* SyncML-Server, but I don't know, wether evolutin can commuicate with such one. Sep 16 18:03:57 hey Sep 16 18:04:20 hi. is there a way to make fcamera to take a picture after x seconds? Sep 16 18:06:21 can i use the autobuilder for my own stuff? Sep 16 18:06:42 i am never at my desktop when i want to compile things myself Sep 16 18:07:59 ioan: I aslowant itto take pics over dbus Sep 16 18:19:53 Is it possible for the UMTS/phone part of N900 to interfere with wifi? Sep 16 18:20:54 It's on a very different wavelength. Sep 16 18:21:00 Probably not dignificantly. Sep 16 18:21:03 sig Sep 16 18:23:39 Strange. I have serious problems with my wifi router and only my. With all the others around the world it usually works. Sep 16 18:24:40 Are there any special settings needed for N900? Band maybe? Sep 16 18:33:50 zbii, depending on the regional settings of the n900 it may not support wifi channels over 11 Sep 16 18:35:26 That would be channel number on the wifi? Sep 16 18:37:51 evening #maemo! Sep 16 18:41:59 hey MNZ \o how goes it Sep 16 18:43:07 long long day. But it's finally time for hackery B-) Sep 16 18:51:02 "Up to 30 minutes of free WiFi a month coming to NYC parks" Sep 16 18:51:10 OMG how generous!!! Sep 16 18:52:46 lol Sep 16 18:53:05 :D Sep 16 18:53:16 RST38h, is that per park or combined? Sep 16 18:54:29 30 min? That is a joke! Sep 16 18:55:21 yeah zbii it should be at least an hour Sep 16 18:56:14 Where I live, well in the citiy close by there is free wifi no restrictions. Sep 16 18:58:51 kkjkkkkkkkk1 Sep 16 19:00:19 thp: qt got your tongue? ;) Sep 16 19:01:13 * RST38h is installing 728MB of Maemo apps Sep 16 19:02:01 RST38h, rootfs flash? Sep 16 19:02:03 Stskeeps: windowfocus fail. sorry about that :) Sep 16 19:04:20 How does one remove a repository? Sep 16 19:05:24 application manager > tools > application catalog? cause there's, um, nothing there. :/ Sep 16 19:09:36 churl1, hmm Sep 16 19:09:36 reboot Sep 16 19:09:47 oh yeah :) Sep 16 19:39:17 achipa, ping Sep 16 19:45:44 MNZ: is there some binary that allows me to shoot raw hex values to biquad via sysfs, so I could load certain predefined EQ settings from e.g. a script? I'm eager to test that Sep 16 19:46:11 Hmm, GAN is no longer trying for the council seat Sep 16 19:46:12 DocScrutinizer, yup there is Sep 16 19:46:30 mompls Sep 16 19:46:36 RST38h: when are you returning to Mosow? Sep 16 19:46:55 Doc: Already have. Currently transferring data and apps to my new n900 Sep 16 19:47:11 aah Sep 16 19:47:34 I'd appreciate paul to get his device soonish, so he can start hacking hostmode Sep 16 19:47:57 Doc: Yes, I will pass him the device in a couple of days Sep 16 19:48:09 fine :-) Sep 16 19:49:12 RST38h: as you might have noticed DHL failed epically to ship to .ru Sep 16 19:49:59 package got stopped and sent back halfway Sep 16 19:51:31 meego-dev's "spec" thread and the discussion about external dependencies is, quite literally, boggling. Sep 16 19:52:00 Doc: This does not surprise me. Sep 16 19:54:40 RST38h: go figure: it took them 4 days to clear the shipment in HEL, then when Henrietta supplied them with some tax number they were no earlier to mention, they finally set status to cleared, only to return package to sender at Leipzig/Germany DHL hub Sep 16 19:54:46 Hi Sep 16 19:55:05 What the hell is this now: "RuntimeError: the sip module implements API v8.0 but the PyQt4.QtCore module requires API 7.1" Sep 16 19:56:07 that's actually master fail when DHL HEL doesn't know what DHL Leipzig needs to proceed a in-out pkg Sep 16 19:56:52 mece: :-/ Sep 16 19:57:18 THE sip module, the notorious magic one Sep 16 19:59:31 Hellos Sep 16 20:00:00 DocScrutinizer, but what does it mean and wtf am I to do about it? Sep 16 20:00:30 mece: I have no F.ing clue Sep 16 20:00:54 ..and is the problem in PyQt, Qt or the sip module (whateverthefuck that is) Sep 16 20:01:06 if no obvious candidate or in doubt, go blame telepathy :-P Sep 16 20:01:14 hmm Sep 16 20:01:24 ok well the problem is not on my phone actually. Sep 16 20:01:58 err where then? Sep 16 20:02:31 DocScrutinizer, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=817937&postcount=18 Sep 16 20:04:22 mece: so you meant the problem isn't a unique issue of your device? Well that's quite obvious Sep 16 20:04:40 DocScrutinizer, well I don't have that problem at all actually. Sep 16 20:05:09 hmm Sep 16 20:05:26 Actually this guy installed qlister, couldn't get it to work, so he made the exact same application and put it in extras :D Sep 16 20:06:03 mece: yeah, I saw that. Sep 16 20:06:25 alterego, it's fine, but I still wonder about that error. Sep 16 20:06:28 Though he said it was to learn Qt Sep 16 20:06:47 Well, I've been using qlister for ages .. Sep 16 20:06:52 alterego, i made qlister because I wanted to test some qt stuff. Sep 16 20:07:09 Heh Sep 16 20:07:19 tbh, I thought about writing a similar app when I was first getting into Qt. Sep 16 20:07:33 But then you released yours so I didn't bother gettings started ^.^ Sep 16 20:07:49 alterego, well, it's a very good way to start. Simple. Sep 16 20:08:07 alterego, I've been meaning to talk to you. You've dabbled in qml I understand? Sep 16 20:08:18 Indeed Sep 16 20:08:34 What do you need? :) Sep 16 20:09:17 well, I was wondering. qml is only for ui? or can you do stuff like reading files and network stuff with it? Or how do you go about that? Sep 16 20:09:37 QML has facilities for database access and networking Sep 16 20:09:48 But not really accessing files :/ Sep 16 20:09:55 database is fine. Sep 16 20:10:37 alterego, I'm planning a server-client turn based strategy game, with the game logic on server side. Was thinking I'd do the client in qml. Sep 16 20:10:48 alterego, very simple game I might add. Sep 16 20:10:50 Neat Sep 16 20:11:32 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qtquick.html Sep 16 20:11:41 That's basically the root source for everything Qt based. Sep 16 20:11:48 QML based sorry .. Sep 16 20:12:21 * lcuk throws a bouncy ball around Sep 16 20:12:21 righty. Sep 16 20:12:38 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> *boing Sep 16 20:12:45 I did the first qml tutorial and was just amazed by the simplicity Sep 16 20:12:48 and smoothness. Sep 16 20:13:00 mece, works well doesn't it Sep 16 20:13:10 lcuk, crazy good. Sep 16 20:13:13 alterego has been playing before Sep 16 20:13:19 lcuk, yeah. Sep 16 20:13:29 Yeah, my only issue with QML is not having access to all the scriptable objects. Sep 16 20:13:32 alterego, what have you made? Sep 16 20:13:35 alterego, did you ever get your compass working in it ? Sep 16 20:13:36 OR at least, that's not documented. Sep 16 20:14:07 lcuk: I've ported my custom widgets used in my GPS app to work with it, but I have to wait for a Qt 4.7 madde sysroot Sep 16 20:14:11 Or build one myself. Sep 16 20:14:34 ahh Sep 16 20:14:43 mece, have you seen what alterego has been hacking on Sep 16 20:14:47 the ui looks sweet! Sep 16 20:15:10 show us Sep 16 20:15:10 Really? It's just a wireframe. Sep 16 20:15:25 Though the QML image viewer I've been playing with is quite pretty. Sep 16 20:15:50 http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/ Sep 16 20:16:05 That's my GPS stuff, the last two are closer to what I have now. Sep 16 20:16:17 alterego, :) i happen to think you made a really good start on what looks like a cool app Sep 16 20:16:41 and you have a style that is rare :P Sep 16 20:16:59 :) Thank you Sep 16 20:17:21 what I want is a firstly a rendered hex of hexes which is fingerscrollable and smooth zoom in some manner. Haven't really decided how to do it yet. Did something in PyQt, but now feel that QML is cooler :) Sep 16 20:17:21 This was something I was doing in QML: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/imaging/Screenshot-20100815-101449.png Sep 16 20:18:06 does the compass work? Sep 16 20:18:07 mece, pan and zoom at same time in finger interface is a bit odd Sep 16 20:18:15 as you know - at least for single touch Sep 16 20:18:16 mece: of course, it's my GPS app. Sep 16 20:18:28 look @ browser as expand workaround Sep 16 20:18:30 lcuk, well I could use a slider to zoom. Sep 16 20:18:34 sure Sep 16 20:18:42 thats common solution Sep 16 20:18:45 lcuk, actually I want that. Sep 16 20:18:46 * lcuk has that on map Sep 16 20:18:48 I should probably update the screenshots. Sep 16 20:18:58 And release a version ^.^ Sep 16 20:19:02 yes alterego you were going to align those labels :P Sep 16 20:19:03 does the bin run directly on n900? Sep 16 20:19:04 \o/ Sep 16 20:19:18 lcuk: actually, those labels are aligned .. Sep 16 20:19:21 needs libqtlocation Sep 16 20:19:31 Corsac, thanks Sep 16 20:19:37 http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/Screenshot-20100715-145415.png Sep 16 20:19:38 mece: yes, though you need Qt mobility api's installed. Sep 16 20:19:39 alterego, ^^ Sep 16 20:20:06 alterego, how is it written? I mean is it only qml code? Sep 16 20:20:40 mece: those screenshots for the GPS app are pure Qt, but I've ported my custom widgets, i.e. the compass dial and slider to Qt Quick. Sep 16 20:20:49 So I can write a QML app and pull in those widgets. Sep 16 20:21:11 alterego, I see. Sep 16 20:21:44 tbh, the app probably wont be ported to Qt Quick, as it's fine in pure Qt Sep 16 20:21:48 and works well. Sep 16 20:22:40 alterego, any particular reason why it isn't in extras? Or is it? Sep 16 20:22:45 Anyhow, you need the Qt maemo5 stuff and Qt mobility geolocation apis installed to run that binary. Sep 16 20:22:54 mece: yeah, it's not ready yet :) Sep 16 20:23:07 is there a metapackage for qt mobility? Sep 16 20:23:14 alterego, still, if it does something, just put it in devel. Sep 16 20:23:24 Corsac: I'm not sure, apt-get install libqtm-* ? ^.^ Sep 16 20:23:25 (why oh why HAM takes so much time after downloading fresh sources.list) Sep 16 20:23:46 Corsac, I think I heard something about that, but IDK exactly where it is Sep 16 20:23:52 mece: I'm working on it, it'll be thrown into extras very soon. Sep 16 20:24:25 alterego, please throw it through -testing first :P Sep 16 20:24:27 In its' current state, with certain features still not implemented but greyed out. I just want to complete the new configuration management stuff I've been working on today. Sep 16 20:24:41 lcuk: obviousy, I meant devel :P Sep 16 20:24:44 alterego, good idea :) Sep 16 20:25:02 that way you dont expose the incomplete stuff until its ready Sep 16 20:25:08 and people wont moan :P Sep 16 20:25:15 that xyz doesnt work Sep 16 20:25:25 Yeah :) Sep 16 20:25:39 * lcuk looks forward to it Sep 16 20:25:44 * mece too Sep 16 20:26:32 * Corsac moos Sep 16 20:26:53 Actually, I've got a good set of new screenshots I did a week or so ago. Sep 16 20:26:55 Umm... so when you're packaging something how do you avoid this issue: Sep 16 20:27:00 libval-threads: Depends: libc but it is not installable Sep 16 20:27:13 cause, um, it certainly does exist and is installed! Sep 16 20:27:27 no it's not, it's libc6 Sep 16 20:28:02 huh. Sep 16 20:28:12 wonder why scratchbox found libc as the dependency Sep 16 20:30:12 because scratchbox has a /usr/lib/libc.so file (from libc6), but the n900 doesn't. Sep 16 20:30:58 libc in /usr? Sep 16 20:31:12 there is one on my scratchbox, yes. not on the device. Sep 16 20:31:29 funny Sep 16 20:31:55 dpkg -S /usr/lib/libc.so Sep 16 20:31:56 libc6-dev: /usr/lib/libc.so Sep 16 20:36:23 lcuk: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus/image2868.png Sep 16 20:37:11 uses only gps? Sep 16 20:37:31 What else would you have me use? :P Sep 16 20:37:41 heh, just checking ;) Sep 16 20:37:48 (didn't read buffer) ;) Sep 16 20:37:50 how accurate would the accelerometer be to derive position? Sep 16 20:37:51 I was contemplating using accel telemetry for something, but not sure what. Sep 16 20:38:03 dotblank, not accurate enough for that Sep 16 20:38:18 dotblank, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z51-vCa0_Q Sep 16 20:38:23 joga, seems to give a lot of data points Sep 16 20:38:44 yeah it gives data but I wouldn't trust a compass heading from the accelerometer Sep 16 20:39:08 accel is only useful for orientation discovery and movement gestures. Sep 16 20:39:29 lcuk: that's cool :) Sep 16 20:39:33 well you can take the device and move it in the direction of the measured plane Sep 16 20:39:47 then once calibrated you can find the distance Sep 16 20:39:56 its possible.. Dunno how accurate it would be Sep 16 20:40:00 alterego, :) thought you had seen that Sep 16 20:40:10 Not really accurate enough and it will only measure gforce Sep 16 20:40:14 So only acceleration. Sep 16 20:40:28 lcuk: no, not that one :) Sep 16 20:40:30 alterego, yea but you can still find position from that data Sep 16 20:40:40 just not that accurate also ignore initial velocity Sep 16 20:40:51 alterego, its nice and simple Sep 16 20:41:05 Erm, how do you measure distance if you don't even know you're moving? Sep 16 20:41:24 alterego, well you can say.. im at a stand still Sep 16 20:41:39 then move and it records time untill acceleration in the opposit direction Sep 16 20:41:44 integrate and solve Sep 16 20:41:51 alterego, hm? Sep 16 20:42:06 Yeah, was just thinking that might be possible. Sep 16 20:42:35 I was thinking of using accel to help normalize the gps data. Sep 16 20:42:40 That might help toward that. Sep 16 20:43:00 alterego, yea I think it would Sep 16 20:43:12 I should get working on a proof of concept Sep 16 20:43:31 alterego, dotblank : http://www.youtube.com/v/sjSrwpbxyAM?fs=1&hl=en_GB Sep 16 20:43:47 lcuk: seen that one ;) Sep 16 20:44:08 you might have done Sep 16 20:44:11 lcuk, saw that.. isn't that using the camera to find change in position? Sep 16 20:44:14 but its related to the positioning stuff Sep 16 20:44:24 yes Sep 16 20:45:05 I can't belive none has bother to make a distance calc based on accelerometer Sep 16 20:45:10 no one* Sep 16 20:45:16 dotblank: GPS? Sep 16 20:45:25 Shapeshifter, well thats gps.. Sep 16 20:45:38 Shapeshifter, also won't work indoors Sep 16 20:45:44 well, GPS would be useful for large distances Sep 16 20:45:47 dotblank: measuring tape? Sep 16 20:45:58 since precision is like 20 or 25m? Sep 16 20:46:03 I have some access to some kinematics testing equipment Sep 16 20:46:17 so I can see if I can get it refined and calibrated to do so Sep 16 20:47:51 is there a way to increase the rate the n900 polls the accelerometer? Sep 16 20:48:15 also for human movement what power should I limit it to Sep 16 20:48:17 3? Sep 16 20:48:42 there's a rate filr in the sys dir for it Sep 16 20:48:44 dotblank, the accelerometer is largely useless for measuring distances AFAIK. There was this nice explanation of why, and SpeedEvil can link you. Sep 16 20:49:04 you can echo 400 to it to increase it from 100h to 400hz Sep 16 20:49:31 in theory at 400hz you could get it to work very very nicely Sep 16 20:49:46 prividing the data itself is accurate Sep 16 20:50:21 interesting Sep 16 20:50:35 realworld interface navigation aids for the blind Sep 16 20:50:37 http://www.visionaustralia.org.au/info.aspx?page=773 Sep 16 20:51:03 ok.. so would using an image for each hex be really slow compared to drawing the hexes in some manner with qml? Sep 16 20:51:30 dotblank: 400Hz is max sample rate, and no it's not as precise as you'd need for decent distance estimations Sep 16 20:51:32 it'll be pretty damn inaccurate because you wont know the exact orientation of the n900 Sep 16 20:51:49 orientation wont drift really Sep 16 20:51:56 location estimate will Sep 16 20:52:11 I think measuring tape is what would do the trick indoors. Sep 16 20:52:11 yes Sep 16 20:52:23 well you could define a plane and say measure component forces in this direction Sep 16 20:52:24 ShadowJK: yep Sep 16 20:52:36 did you see the indoor navigation at nokia world? Sep 16 20:52:37 you could also do it in 2d or even 3d space Sep 16 20:52:49 you get acceleration scalars from gthe accelerometer, you need to know your orientation to turn it into vectors Sep 16 20:52:52 * lcuk finds link Sep 16 20:53:16 lcuk, i suspect that was rigged wifi basestations? :) Sep 16 20:53:17 dotblank: this is a cheap chip and not a $$$$$ inertial system Sep 16 20:53:31 ShadowJK, you can do that because gravity would be streight down.. for example z your x and y will very Sep 16 20:53:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWMJ_6rQFGY Sep 16 20:53:37 well, you always have 1G downwards Sep 16 20:53:42 dotblank: errors accumulate Sep 16 20:53:45 that you can use Sep 16 20:53:50 ShadowJK, have a look Sep 16 20:53:52 DocScrutinizer, aww.. I still think it would be cool to try even if it doesn't work Sep 16 20:53:59 DocScrutinizer: well, there are workarounds for that Sep 16 20:54:11 DocScrutinizer: for example assuming that somebody can't go into wall and stuff Sep 16 20:54:23 after a single quick move over 50cm you'll not get the device to an exact non moving calibration Sep 16 20:54:27 theres other videos showing it Sep 16 20:54:41 dotblank, of course it would be feasible to try Sep 16 20:54:49 you could even recalibrate occasionally Sep 16 20:55:03 if you had something nearby to identify Sep 16 20:55:05 mompls Sep 16 20:55:08 dotblank, so put my n900 in a car back seat and drive aroud in circles, can you distinguish acceleration due to gravity from acceleration due to car movement :P Sep 16 20:55:08 I worried my accelerometer is already off Sep 16 20:55:18 * DocScrutinizer is fetching a link once again Sep 16 20:55:27 dotblank: why not try it them Sep 16 20:55:28 *then Sep 16 20:55:30 ShadowJK, no you can't but you have to start the app while not moving Sep 16 20:55:52 Shapeshifter, I think I will Sep 16 20:55:53 even then? Sep 16 20:55:58 be a cool little project Sep 16 20:56:01 doomed to fail Sep 16 20:56:04 * dotblank shrugs Sep 16 20:57:16 I want to get it to work in 3d space then ride a roler coaster Sep 16 20:57:33 and providing its not a complete failure you could map out or trace your path on the ride Sep 16 20:57:41 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals for your convenience Sep 16 20:58:04 dotblank, rollercoaster could happily be done with agps? Sep 16 20:58:18 Help? How do i make pidgin fit on my n900's screen? Sep 16 20:58:53 After 1s, if you happen to hit an average noise peak in each accelerometer at the opposite point - something that'll happen once every 5-10 seconds or so, (absolute peaks are much worse) what happens to the pointing? Well - the velocity reads out as 6cm/s^2 wrong, which means that the position is now out by 3cm, or 10 degrees. Sep 16 20:58:54 lcuk, maybe use both according to the link it will only last for a couple of seconds Sep 16 20:59:01 the gps is too inaccurate thoug.. Sep 16 20:59:04 though Sep 16 20:59:13 It has room for 4 rows of foreign text if they have six or fewer words... As long as i don't get any tabs... Sep 16 20:59:45 DocScrutinizer, could it be possible to filter out that data? Sep 16 20:59:51 or limit the power? Sep 16 21:00:12 you would loose the ability to measure jerk but I'm trying something basic Sep 16 21:00:20 filter out data from noise? that's by definition impossible, except you'd know what data you expect Sep 16 21:00:42 DocScrutinizer: with multiple measurments it's possible Sep 16 21:00:47 well not really if you have a ceiling on the rate of change Sep 16 21:01:02 jacekowski: just you got no multiple measurements Sep 16 21:01:02 Well, almost finished my new config management stuff. Sep 16 21:01:04 I remember an early garmin gps unit with monochrome 128x128 pix display and no maps, when it thought you weren't moving anymore, it started averaging GPS positions to refine your position :) Sep 16 21:01:10 well, 400Hz Sep 16 21:01:20 that should be good enough Sep 16 21:01:20 400hz is alot Sep 16 21:01:30 yes, and every single one has noise and data Sep 16 21:01:38 you would only need like 50hz accurate Sep 16 21:01:44 but noise is random Sep 16 21:01:52 ShadowJK: cool Sep 16 21:01:55 data is constant in that short time frame Sep 16 21:02:00 DocScrutinizer: so we'll need an extra set of sensor for the n900 quadricopter to fly through moving hoops? :( Sep 16 21:02:08 jacekowski, predictably random? Sep 16 21:02:11 please read the link, instead of asking me to explain to you once again Sep 16 21:02:14 no Sep 16 21:02:19 X-Fade: Do you know if there's a web site featuring a JavaScript MediaWiki table editor? I get so bored doing big sets of meeting minutes using just the markup (since it's not very intuitive to my HTML-addled brain) Sep 16 21:02:28 just random Sep 16 21:02:29 kerio, yeah you want like 3 or 4 gyros too Sep 16 21:02:33 aw :( Sep 16 21:02:33 think ntp Sep 16 21:02:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marzullo's_algorithm Sep 16 21:03:03 i'm talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geqip_0Vjec of course Sep 16 21:03:03 BS Sep 16 21:03:12 noise is noise Sep 16 21:03:34 kerio, something like http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9623 Sep 16 21:03:40 100 readings of same value Sep 16 21:03:45 +- random value Sep 16 21:03:52 averaged Sep 16 21:04:00 will work out as original value Sep 16 21:04:29 jacekowski: depending on how big is the +-random value Sep 16 21:04:39 yea don't know... Sep 16 21:04:42 hi every body Sep 16 21:04:56 is there anyone can help me plz?? Sep 16 21:04:58 kerio, so basically when he threw the quadcopter it was in free fell more or less, accelerometers reading 0,0,0.. it needs the gyros to know what direction it's pointing in Sep 16 21:05:13 Doc: what's my next number? :) Sep 16 21:05:20 ShadowJK, yea I can see that being a problem Sep 16 21:05:27 err, 24? Sep 16 21:05:38 dunno, timeless_pidgin Sep 16 21:05:39 * timeless_pidgin kicks pidgin for having huge fonts and *tiny* smilies Sep 16 21:05:51 Biroo: we won't know till ya explain the problem :-) Sep 16 21:06:24 ShadowJK, I guess if you remembered all the rotations on the object before you through it and during flight untill freefall you could do it but this is pushing the accuracy way way too far Sep 16 21:06:41 24. Calendars should properly encode all day events so that when you travel two hours west your "christmas eve day event" doesn't start on December 23rd at 10pm ... Sep 16 21:06:41 threw* Sep 16 21:06:46 I have a big problem with my Nokia N900 Sep 16 21:06:52 Biroo: oh noes Sep 16 21:07:13 Biroo, ask already Sep 16 21:07:24 Biroo: but your n900 is small, how can you have a big problem? Sep 16 21:07:37 dotblank: besides, if your axis of rotation goes through the accelerometer it's not going to notice anything Sep 16 21:07:39 big things come in small packages :-) Sep 16 21:07:41 I switch it off Sep 16 21:07:58 and the screen goes black? Sep 16 21:08:01 and try to switch it on ... nothing happened Sep 16 21:08:01 D: Sep 16 21:08:07 ShadowJK, ok good point .. don't through in a such a way.... Sep 16 21:08:11 lol Sep 16 21:08:19 I try to do flasher for it... nothing happend Sep 16 21:08:25 Biroo: take out the battery Sep 16 21:08:46 Plug the n900 into a wall charger. Sep 16 21:08:46 ok Sep 16 21:08:57 Biroo: you can't flash unless you at least can get it to boot at all. Also, remember you have to hold in the power button for 2-3 seconds before it starts booting. Sep 16 21:08:58 done Sep 16 21:08:58 Plug the wall charger into a live outlet Sep 16 21:09:00 insert battery again :-P Sep 16 21:09:03 yeah, i've just tried it Sep 16 21:09:04 (but remove the battery is good) Sep 16 21:09:12 Put the battery back in Sep 16 21:09:15 Wait. Sep 16 21:09:37 Do you see a small light in the corner of the n900? Sep 16 21:09:52 I see the light, closing in on me D: Sep 16 21:10:00 no Sep 16 21:10:03 dont go to the light! Sep 16 21:10:08 nothing Sep 16 21:10:09 too late! Sep 16 21:10:09 dotblank, so like theoretically if accelerometer was 100% accurate the dual accelerometer setup like in freerunner, you could see less acc on one meter and more on the other as a sign of rotation Sep 16 21:10:15 Ideally the screen should flash a bit and then the light should glow in some pattern... Sep 16 21:10:44 assuming that noise is 10% of value Sep 16 21:10:46 ShadowJK, yea also note there will be centrifugal force Sep 16 21:11:01 you would need 10 samples to get it under 2% Sep 16 21:11:03 Biroo, are you sure the micro usb port isn't broken? Sep 16 21:11:11 the Nokia word just shown with no light and a small vibration Sep 16 21:11:30 Biroo: that means the usb connection works. Sep 16 21:11:32 yes I already charge it Sep 16 21:11:39 Biroo: so what's the problem. Device booting to Nolo just fine Sep 16 21:11:50 20 samples get it down to ~1.3% Sep 16 21:11:58 Biroo, did it enter a reboot loop? Sep 16 21:12:05 Biroo: wait a bit, press and hold the power key... Sep 16 21:12:08 so it's possible to do that stuff with accelerometer Sep 16 21:12:11 oh and also: screw quadcopters, you want single rotors for maximum potential carnage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxLGiHF17uU (this is a human pilot) Sep 16 21:12:14 yes Sep 16 21:12:17 a reboot loop Sep 16 21:12:22 jacekowski: this only applies for constant input value during tha sampling window Sep 16 21:12:34 jacekowski, well proving the increased polling rate actually have the device giving new values.. not repeated ones Sep 16 21:12:40 Biroo, have you tried to flash it with maemo flasher? Sep 16 21:12:46 yes Sep 16 21:12:47 Biroo: removing the battery clears the act-dead bit Sep 16 21:12:50 providing* Sep 16 21:12:55 and there is the problem Sep 16 21:13:02 It should be possible for you to try to flash it now... Sep 16 21:13:03 assuming that noise is 100% of value Sep 16 21:13:10 10 samples get it down to 3% Sep 16 21:13:21 Biroo, what happens when you try to flash it? Sep 16 21:13:35 DocScrutinizer: with 400Hz you can assume that it's constantish Sep 16 21:13:35 you get "waiting for a suitable device"? Sep 16 21:13:36 * Shapeshifter loves devices where you stick some pointy object into a hole and it's like brand new from the factory :D Sep 16 21:13:43 bah Sep 16 21:13:51 DocScrutinizer: and reject any values that are too far away from expected value Sep 16 21:13:58 omg Sep 16 21:14:01 jacekowski, yea power limit it.. Sep 16 21:14:12 the problem here that when I connect it with the USB during the flasher... The Usb shape in the corner of the screen doesn't shown Sep 16 21:14:22 and assume that it has changed too much to sample it Sep 16 21:14:49 and the flasher stop at ... waiting for a suitable devic Sep 16 21:14:52 Biroo, did you hold the U button while plugging it? Sep 16 21:14:53 Biroo: did you try holding 'u' when you turned it on? Sep 16 21:15:00 sure Sep 16 21:15:04 Shapeshifter, a mans reason for living is to stick some pointy object into a hole and create something brand new from the factory Sep 16 21:15:08 but nothing happened Sep 16 21:15:21 Biroo: try it on linux Sep 16 21:15:32 jacekowski: if it were that simple, don't you think we'd see better dead reconing on all tomtom and garmin navis? Sep 16 21:15:32 Biroo: check if windows sees device Sep 16 21:15:33 and I try to flash it with Linux system .. and also the same problem Sep 16 21:15:35 Biroo: do you have admin rights? Sep 16 21:15:45 yes Sep 16 21:15:48 PEBKAC Sep 16 21:16:06 lcuk: heh. Sep 16 21:16:07 ++ on the PEBKAC Sep 16 21:16:11 DocScrutinizer: my tomtom doesn't have accelerometer Sep 16 21:16:12 * ShadowJK blames not-full battery Sep 16 21:16:18 Biroo, you tried to flash it on a 32Bit linux distro? Sep 16 21:16:21 jacekowski: guess why Sep 16 21:16:29 yes 32 bit Sep 16 21:16:31 well, it's a GPS Sep 16 21:16:32 Almost ready to merge in my new generic config management stuff into my gps app :) Sep 16 21:16:44 it doesn't need anything else for 99.9% of time Sep 16 21:16:50 BS Sep 16 21:16:51 i don't go trough tunnels very often Sep 16 21:17:01 Biroo, so basically nothing happens when you plug in the usb holding U ? Sep 16 21:17:14 and i never saw a junction in a tunnel Sep 16 21:17:20 jacekowski: the accelerometer is used in turns as well, AFAIK Sep 16 21:17:38 nothing.. just a reboot loop with no lights and a small vibration Sep 16 21:17:54 dead battery Sep 16 21:17:58 allow the battery to charge Sep 16 21:17:58 uhh.. bricked device? Sep 16 21:18:06 I feel like a polling rate at 400 hz with filters to remove noise could give a fairly accurate reading Sep 16 21:18:19 I don't think it gets a net charge whilst reboot-looping :P Sep 16 21:18:43 not on the computer, but on the power socket it ought to Sep 16 21:18:43 jacekowski, see this is why I'm not convinced press u halts nolo if battery is low :-) Sep 16 21:19:22 well, hmm Sep 16 21:19:26 If the battery is totally dead I've certainly seen it not be willing to boot until plugged in for a while. Sep 16 21:19:27 there is workaround for nolo Sep 16 21:19:27 jacekowski: you're boring me - come up with a POC simply integrating (and possibly filtering sophistacatedly) the g-meter data, and I'll show you it thinks it's standing still while actually I never stoped moving after I shaked it arounf for 10s Sep 16 21:19:58 DocScrutinizer, :( but shaking it invokes jerk... I want to start basic and do simple acceleration Sep 16 21:20:11 hardaker, this is not the issue now Sep 16 21:20:12 DocScrutinizer, not very applicable Sep 16 21:20:21 ShadowJK: gotcha. Sep 16 21:20:28 DocScrutinizer, but I'd think it would be cool regardless Sep 16 21:20:36 hardaker, it's booting. It just boots into dead OS, and reboots Sep 16 21:20:54 DocScrutinizer: when you want to measure distance, you won't go around shaking the device Sep 16 21:21:11 Shapeshifter, well if your in a car it will shake Sep 16 21:21:16 dotblank: you've read that pretty comprehensive article I liked you to? Sep 16 21:21:16 very much so Sep 16 21:21:23 DocScrutinizer, yes I did Sep 16 21:21:28 dotblank: in your car you'll be using GPS. I thought you wanted it for indoor use Sep 16 21:22:22 Heh Sep 16 21:22:41 Shapeshifter, yea.. I guess.. it could only amount to a fancy toy that would work only in a very specific physical system Sep 16 21:22:57 dotblank: yeah. like GPSD Sep 16 21:22:59 GPS Sep 16 21:23:07 still very useful. Sep 16 21:24:40 "For interactive use. High-pass filtering the accelerometer with a bandwidth of 10Hz - you can't filter it much more than that or you lose important 'wobbles'" Sep 16 21:24:46 at 10hz Sep 16 21:24:55 yea I can see it not being very good Sep 16 21:30:28 Errors build up, but it's not bad for short periods, 1cm/s^2 of error, with a car going in a straight line at 20m/s, takes a bit over a minute to move from a true direction of northeast - say, to a false direction of northnortheast. (the position is off after this period by a hundred metres or two) Sep 16 21:30:55 this scales nicely Sep 16 21:31:43 The particle effect when destroying a window from the dashboard, that's in hildon-desktop right? Sep 16 21:31:55 if you're moving with 2m/s your pos is off by at least 20m after 1 min Sep 16 21:31:57 I was thinking, I'd quite like to replace that with a poof of smoke :) Sep 16 21:32:17 puff Sep 16 21:32:21 but even if you're not moving at all, your pos will drift Sep 16 21:32:30 No, a poof :P Sep 16 21:32:37 "a poof of smoke" <-- is that a new way of saying "fag"? Sep 16 21:32:53 Heh Sep 16 21:33:47 "Greek police charged two U.S. tourists with desecrating the dead on Thursday after they found six human skulls in their hand luggage at Athens international airport, a police official said." Sep 16 21:34:39 * crashanddie classifies that as "WTF were they thinking?" Sep 16 21:34:43 dotblank: and all that numbers in that article are based on a g-meter 20 times better than the one we got in N900 Sep 16 21:34:49 souvenirs Sep 16 21:35:28 is there a trial version of sygic 10 for USA? Sep 16 21:36:16 alterego, columbus looks really nice. The "options" button does nothing. It's supposed to be like that currently, right? Sep 16 21:36:41 crashanddie: it reminds me of that 4chan thread Sep 16 21:36:42 mece: not currently no, on my versions the options button has all sorts of nice options ;) Sep 16 21:36:46 the guy with the skull Sep 16 21:36:58 mece: I'll upload it hopefully tomorrow Sep 16 21:37:07 I've just finished what I wanted to finish before my release into -devel Sep 16 21:37:31 sweet. Sep 16 21:38:09 mece: that executable only has the one display I believe, and I only uploaded it to help a couple of us reverse engineer the binary GPS protocol Sep 16 21:38:44 yep, just the one display. Still useful :D Sep 16 21:39:16 In my version both the compasses have a nice smooth scrolling action too ;) Sep 16 21:39:49 "Love consists in overestimating the differences between one woman and another." Sep 16 21:39:50 :D Sep 16 21:40:10 nice to see some much needed smoothness on maemo. Sep 16 21:40:27 crashanddie, how poetic. Sep 16 21:43:07 mece: it was a bit of an unecessary modification but: http://pastie.org/1163759 Sep 16 21:43:14 I just wanted to make my configuration system easier. Sep 16 21:43:42 To program, and my application is based around a plugin system, and each plugin needs to register configuration options when they initialize. Sep 16 21:44:39 alterego, hey that's pretty nifty. Sep 16 21:45:19 It's quite neat I thought, you have a ConfigManager, which you describe your apps configuration model to, then you create my special "OptionsDialog" which talks to the configuration manager to display a nice options dialog. Sep 16 21:45:52 I guess it's kind of semantic in some ways Sep 16 21:46:47 I wish I was good at c++. I just don't have time with the nitpicking these days, and I don't have the skills to get it right on the first try :/ Sep 16 21:47:18 Well, I say it was unecessary, but in reality my config stuff was all over the place and was quickly becoming unmanagable. Sep 16 21:47:29 Well, I'm not even sure I'm that good at C++ tbh :) Sep 16 21:47:43 And I wouldn't worry about getting it right the first time. Sep 16 21:47:51 lucky for me there's python, qtquick and other lazyman's methods. Sep 16 21:47:59 Or the second, third, forth, maybe even never ;) Sep 16 21:48:02 haha Sep 16 21:48:13 It's best to be agile and pragmatic in my opinion, though having a rough design is always a good idea. Sep 16 21:49:58 ahemm.. que? WeTab can run android apps? Sep 16 21:50:09 mece: source? Sep 16 21:50:16 http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/09/16/wepad-will-run-meego-os-android-apps/ Sep 16 21:50:28 that's a bold claim, I must say. Sep 16 21:50:32 then again why not. Sep 16 21:51:57 Neat Sep 16 22:04:01 my hopes have been dashed... by DocScrutinizer :( Sep 16 22:05:24 I'll have to go back to figuring out lcuk's videos Sep 16 22:06:52 hmm Sep 16 22:07:00 dotblank, which bit cant you figure out Sep 16 22:07:48 dotblank: I'd think you got better chances to measure distances by using some acousic radar principle Sep 16 22:08:29 Hah Sep 16 22:08:35 or laz0rs Sep 16 22:08:38 and the camera Sep 16 22:09:00 yeah but N900 has no laz0rs Sep 16 22:09:02 Let me guess, another dumfounded enquirer into the reverse AR ? Sep 16 22:10:06 DocScrutinizer51: well of course you need the n900 in one place and the light in some other place. Imagine a replacement stylus that is a laz0r Sep 16 22:10:09 woot Sep 16 22:10:26 the n900 needs lasers. Sep 16 22:10:35 Heh, that would have to me a large stylus to fit the energy source :P Sep 16 22:10:39 why didn't I think of it earlier Sep 16 22:13:59 alterego: maybe stack a couple of these? http://www.anl.gov/Media_Center/News/2003/news030919.htm Sep 16 22:14:31 well it would be a long way until the N900 death star... Sep 16 22:15:00 alterego, a youtuber sussed it! Sep 16 22:15:08 :) Sep 16 22:15:10 Noice Sep 16 22:15:40 so I posted saying where to download it from to try themselves Sep 16 22:42:54 Wow, didn't realize Nintendo were so ungreen Sep 16 22:43:15 I guess it's because they're in china Sep 16 22:46:11 Meeting minutes from earlier: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-September/004494.html Sep 16 22:46:14 * Jaffa beds Sep 16 22:55:32 Hi. Is there a reason "less" (the enhanced version of cmd-line util "more") is "extras-devel" rather than "extras-testing" or even "extras"? Is it something technical like "the author should be respond to email quickly" or should I be wary of installing it on my N900? Sep 16 22:56:08 kwtm, just how much of a danger do you think less can be? Sep 16 22:56:39 Heh Sep 16 22:57:02 I don't know, but on the other hand I didn't realize that busybox could crash my N900 and make me have to return it to the store. Sep 16 22:57:06 unfortunately extras isn't exactly the repository it should be. Sep 16 22:57:23 I think the question is, how much of a danger do people think "less" can be that they didn't vote it up to extras-testing? Sep 16 22:57:50 It was probably never promoted Sep 16 22:57:51 busybox 'crashed' your N900?? Can you tell us more? Sep 16 22:58:00 MNZ: I would love to, but first here's a riddle: Sep 16 22:58:42 kwtm: perhaps because very few people use "less" and even fewer people go and upvote it in the Garage Sep 16 22:58:46 What software, present on the N900 by default, will be affected by a one-line text file (not present on the N900 by default), so that in the presence of this text file, the N900 cannot boot up properly and must be reflashed? Sep 16 22:59:07 wmarone: Interesting. If that's the reason, then that's fine. I thought everyone would be using "less" so I wanted to make sure it had no problems. Sep 16 22:59:35 wmarone: I guess I'm addicted enough to the command-line interface that I really don't want to use "more" more than I have to. Sep 16 22:59:35 kwtm, I've heard of this.... but darn if I can remember Sep 16 22:59:50 MNZ: The answer is: "ash" (aka busybox). Sep 16 23:00:06 oh... ohhhhh XD Sep 16 23:00:13 ashis a symlink to the busybox executable. Sep 16 23:00:21 kwtm: I suspect a large percentage of the N900 user base actually doesn't use the command line Sep 16 23:00:23 MNZ: The one-line text file is ~/.profile; if it references a non-existent file, then the startup scripts cause an error that is unrecoverable. Sep 16 23:00:27 tbh, you could get rid of one of a 100 files and the N900 would not boot. Sep 16 23:01:04 alterego: Correct, but to add your own one-line text file and make it not boot? This one-liner is in your home directory, I should add --not any system directory. Sep 16 23:01:26 Okay, so if no one knows of any problems with "less" I'll just go ahead and use it. Sep 16 23:01:35 Yeah, when I heard about .profile killing N900's I felt a little scared. Sep 16 23:01:38 Always a pleasure to ask for help from those with more expertise and experience. Sep 16 23:01:53 zzziiiiinnnggg Sep 16 23:02:02 * MNZ is hurt :'( Sep 16 23:02:15 Hrm, I'm actually feeling kind of hungry. Sep 16 23:02:24 alterego: I suspect there's some script that says "If ash returns a non-zero exit value, trigger the error-correcting script! ... which runs on, er, ash. Yeah." Sep 16 23:02:28 I might make some eggs Sep 16 23:02:46 Yeah, I'm gonna have a fried egg sammich Sep 16 23:02:48 bbiam Sep 16 23:03:06 While I'm here, anyone have problems with Gnumeric on N900 (in extras-devel)? If no, I'll install that, too. Sep 16 23:06:18 I would guess the UI hasn't been ported... Sep 16 23:08:15 wmarone: I guess. I use the N900 as a "smartphone" a lot and use the GUI that way, but I also have 3 X-Terms open with two instances of vim going. Hmm... Sep 16 23:09:19 I mostly have terminal and browser windows open Sep 16 23:10:30 kwtm: hiow do you mean "like a smartphone" ? You mean you use it to make calls? Sep 16 23:10:40 What makes a smartphone a smartphone anyway? Sep 16 23:11:02 it's something you don't call dumb all the time :) Sep 16 23:13:05 Urgh, I really don't like that "I can't believe it's not butter" crap. Sep 16 23:22:27 dotblank: on accel - search openmoko wiki "accelerometer fundamentals" Sep 16 23:24:16 SpeedEvil, I think DocScrutinizer put enough doubt in it for me to try anything Sep 16 23:26:59 k Sep 16 23:27:05 My connection fell over. Sep 16 23:32:50 how the hell do I debug javascript stuff that I use for qml?? Sep 16 23:33:13 If you run qmlviewer from the console, you have debug output. Sep 16 23:33:30 If you run it from the application menu, you can access the debug log from the menu. Sep 16 23:33:51 alterego, how do I print something from the javascript file to console? I'm running it from qtcreator Sep 16 23:34:30 Let me check. Sep 16 23:34:31 print. Who knew? Sep 16 23:34:34 lol. Sep 16 23:34:51 I had my test print behind an "if" that never succeeded Sep 16 23:35:04 * mece bonks himself Sep 16 23:35:09 Oh yeah, that was it :) Sep 16 23:44:52 I noticed something mighty annoying about QML actually, Sep 16 23:45:25 with an opengl backend you're limited to the size of an "imaage" element. Sep 16 23:45:46 I suppose I should sumbit a bug report or something. Sep 16 23:46:20 or use a larger image :P Sep 16 23:46:36 Erm, you mean smaller. Sep 16 23:46:53 It's a large image that screws up, because there's not enough memory for the texture in opengles. Sep 16 23:47:04 At least that's my guess ;) Sep 16 23:47:25 hmm Sep 16 23:47:32 then file a bug Sep 16 23:47:56 alterego, hmm.. how do I do a for loop? Sep 16 23:48:28 for( = 0; i < 10; i ++) {} Sep 16 23:48:37 urgh, well, you know, the normal way :P Sep 16 23:48:40 ok Sep 16 23:48:42 hm Sep 16 23:49:29 Are you trying to programatically generate qml elements from javascript? Sep 16 23:49:35 no. Sep 16 23:49:41 I'm trying to do a for loop in qml Sep 16 23:49:51 alterego, but that would be the alternative Sep 16 23:50:00 Oh, well, it's declarative, you can't really. Sep 16 23:50:11 What does the loop do? Well, what is it supposed to do? Sep 16 23:50:38 alterego, display a couple of hundred png's Sep 16 23:51:54 Right, so you are trying to generate qml elements programatically then ;) Sep 16 23:52:28 mece: this might help: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-advtutorial.html Sep 16 23:53:40 alterego, ah yesh. thanks. Sep 16 23:53:42 mece: and this: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativedynamicobjects.html Sep 16 23:55:16 alterego, yeah. That's exactly what I needed. Thanks! Sep 16 23:57:27 No problem :) Sep 16 23:57:53 I've browsed through all the QML documentation so even though I don't know everything off-by-heart, I have a good idea where stuff is ;) Sep 17 01:04:07 * peb_ is gone. Gone since Tue Sep 7 15:18:00 2010 Sep 17 01:05:43 on the n900, is there some way i can configure a script or a program to run when it (or X) starts up, as a user? (like, not /etc/init.d/ or /etc/event.d/) Sep 17 01:18:23 pigeon: what's wrong with init.d? you can use the alarmd Sep 17 01:18:53 nothing, i thought if there's a non-root way then i'll do that. Sep 17 01:19:01 alarmd then Sep 17 01:25:28 pigeon: There is a stupid hack. Sep 17 01:25:36 pigeon: Install queen-beecon Sep 17 01:25:44 pigeon: Set one to run on start Sep 17 01:26:27 heh Sep 17 02:11:10 hi, Sep 17 02:11:15 how can I remove multiboot Sep 17 02:11:27 I'd like to kexec instead Sep 17 02:11:32 with kernel-power Sep 17 02:27:15 ok I think multiboot is gone, I don't know how I did it tough Sep 17 02:29:49 ah no Sep 17 02:30:29 ah it seem that kernel-power is booting now Sep 17 02:49:50 so how can I get my N900 to share its GPS? :p Sep 17 02:49:53 over BT Sep 17 02:54:43 Yes. Sep 17 02:54:51 IIRC Sep 17 02:54:53 actually Sep 17 02:55:01 you'd need a NMEA source Sep 17 02:55:04 hmm Sep 17 02:55:14 then to configure a rfcomm **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 17 02:59:57 2010