**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 22 02:59:57 2010
Sep 22 03:01:11 <vkvraju> Am I the only one seeking noise here?
Sep 22 03:42:40 <fredrinN900> no
Sep 22 03:44:41 <fredrinN900> none european people with borked sleeping schedule?
Sep 22 03:45:25 * fredrinN900 needs some good podcasts
Sep 22 04:01:20 <Termana> fredrinN900, This Week in Google or The Linux Action Show?
Sep 22 04:08:56 <lolloo> hello there
Sep 22 04:09:22 <lolloo> why isnt maemo notifier plugin for xchat not working for m N900?
Sep 22 04:09:54 <lolloo> it doent notifiy me neither with sounds or lights
Sep 22 04:10:20 <lolloo> how can I edit the text config for the plugin?
Sep 22 04:10:41 <lolloo> maybe there is someline coding need to be changed
Sep 22 04:11:00 <lolloo> any you guys know whereor how I can edit the file for the plugin?
Sep 22 04:11:01 <Termana> lolloo, do you often forget where you leave your keys?
Sep 22 04:11:18 <lolloo> where is the place of the file?
Sep 22 04:11:35 <lolloo> which directory I can find in xchat notifier plugin
Sep 22 04:11:36 <lolloo> ?
Sep 22 04:11:49 <Termana> Because apparently you often forget that you ask the same question every day and fail to realise that the same people who gave you an answer last time are the same regulars that idle here.
Sep 22 04:12:10 <lolloo> no one gave me an answer
Sep 22 04:12:24 <lolloo> and I think its ok to ask many times.
Sep 22 04:12:30 <lolloo> until someone replies
Sep 22 04:12:42 <lolloo> so where can I find the file directory?
Sep 22 04:12:57 <lolloo> for xchat maemo notifier
Sep 22 04:13:01 <lolloo> plugin
Sep 22 04:13:27 <lolloo> is it hard for you to answer?
Sep 22 04:14:26 <lolloo> I know the directory is something /.xchat2/
Sep 22 04:14:36 <lolloo> but what is something
Sep 22 04:14:49 <lolloo> where can I find that directory
Sep 22 04:15:00 <lolloo> where is it on my phone?
Sep 22 04:15:20 <johnx> dude. if someone knows and wants to answer they will
Sep 22 04:15:35 <johnx> if you're annoying to the people who know the answer, they're less likely to help you
Sep 22 04:15:59 <lolloo> am giving hints
Sep 22 04:16:45 <johnx> you're being annoying, which is why I'm not helping you. Dunno about other people. A lot of the people who know probably already have you on /ignore
Sep 22 04:20:05 <fredrinN900> or sleep
Sep 22 04:21:00 <lolloo> omg all that
Sep 22 04:21:06 <lolloo> whatever
Sep 22 04:22:07 <pupnik> lolloo: you can open a shell and do a "ls -al |more" to see what hidden directories are in your cwd
Sep 22 04:22:28 <pupnik> along with all other stuff
Sep 22 04:24:36 <lolloo> Alright!
Sep 22 04:24:54 <fredrinN900> :)
Sep 22 04:25:06 <fredrinN900> good boy
Sep 22 04:25:15 <Termana> You could find just hidden directories/files with "find . -name ".*" | more"
Sep 22 04:25:28 <Termana> Rather then list everything
Sep 22 04:25:47 <fredrinN900> less
Sep 22 04:27:30 <jansy> hi trying to ssh to laptop.In xterminal and type ssh but keep getting -sh: ssh: not found
Sep 22 04:28:02 <fredrinN900> you need to install ssh
Sep 22 04:28:05 <jansy> i have ssh daemon switched on
Sep 22 04:28:21 <fredrinN900> client
Sep 22 04:28:32 <jansy> like openssh ?
Sep 22 04:28:33 <fredrinN900> not server
Sep 22 04:28:49 <fredrinN900> openssh client
Sep 22 04:29:00 <jansy> thanks mate I'll try
Sep 22 04:29:00 <fredrinN900> yes
Sep 22 04:29:04 <fredrinN900> np
Sep 22 04:29:22 <fredrinN900> report back
Sep 22 04:42:43 <pupnik> probably got distracted by its' own tail
Sep 22 04:44:58 <johnx> For the record, I don't have a problem with people asking questions, even lots of questions. I do get annoyed when people act like they deserve help simply because they exist and especially when they don't use google and/or RTFM
Sep 22 04:46:38 <Termana> Oh he's gone
Sep 22 04:46:58 <Termana> gees - I wish we had laws to prevent being from being such dumb arses
Sep 22 04:47:00 <Termana> :P
Sep 22 04:47:30 <johnx> I really think he didn't know about /ignore ...
Sep 22 04:48:23 <Termana> Most of the channel has him on ignore. I don't simply because I hate putting people on ignore. Makes it hard to follow IRC conversations if that person is actually being useful and apart of it.
Sep 22 04:49:29 <luke-jr> /ignore is for people who can't ignore mentally? :P
Sep 22 04:50:06 <johnx> luke-jr, true enough. I'll be the first to admit that's me. Though when I'm in a state of mind where the noise distracts me, I just turn off *all* the noise ;)
Sep 22 06:13:40 <dospod> hi old friends
Sep 22 06:18:45 <jpinx-eeepc> who's he calling old?
Sep 22 06:19:21 <dospod> everyone that was here around 2 years ago
Sep 22 06:19:24 <Termana> jpinx-eeepc, no one he's only saying hi to anyone that is old
Sep 22 06:19:32 <Termana> :P
Sep 22 06:20:00 * jpinx-eeepc qualifies -- new here - but old everywhere else :(
Sep 22 06:21:51 <Termana> jpinx-eeepc, would it make you happier if I get the hell off your lawn?
Sep 22 06:22:26 <jpinx-eeepc> heh
Sep 22 06:24:54 <mece> LOL
Sep 22 06:25:06 <mece> daaaaaamn! Stupid pre mob.
Sep 22 06:25:31 <mece> http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html
Sep 22 06:26:35 <dospod> anybody still use a n800
Sep 22 06:27:22 <mece> dospod, I believe quite many do actually.
Sep 22 06:27:38 <dospod> I may be trying to get ahold of one again soon
Sep 22 06:27:43 <dospod> miss the damn thing so much
Sep 22 06:28:54 <mece> why not n810?
Sep 22 06:30:06 <dospod> the only thing I liked about them was the keyboard....
Sep 22 06:30:18 <dospod> plus I only have spare sd cards so I want the n800
Sep 22 06:31:04 <mece> I thought the keyboard was the only thing different..
Sep 22 06:31:58 <dospod> only one card slot and its mini sd
Sep 22 06:32:49 <jjo> yeah, different memory cards in all the tablets
Sep 22 06:33:29 <dospod> kinda lame
Sep 22 06:34:13 <mece> I see. Not something that would affect me in any way, but then again I've never had one :)
Sep 22 06:35:07 <dospod> the n800 was so nice for me when I had it my sophomore and junior year of high school
Sep 22 06:35:33 <dospod> on the fly torrent downloading for when I visited family , xchat , browser, games, media support, webcam , etc...
Sep 22 06:39:49 <dospod> well I got class at 9 tommorow so goodnight everybody
Sep 22 07:13:37 <mece> omg it's wednesday!
Sep 22 07:14:27 <mece> which hence forth shall be known as MeeGoday
Sep 22 07:14:38 <Termana> mece, why?
Sep 22 07:14:58 <Termana> Nothing special is happening with MeeGo today, why would you call it MeeGoday? :P
Sep 22 07:15:15 <mece> meego weekly build come wednesdays. Unless there's trouble.
Sep 22 07:15:32 <mece> Stskeeps, is there trouble?
Sep 22 07:15:38 <Termana> Oh right, the weekly build :P I guess that's exciting
Sep 22 07:16:10 <mece> Termana, well it's the most exciting thing happening happening in meego on this side of development.
Sep 22 07:16:38 <mece> Termana, this side being the side that doesn't develop meego.
Sep 22 07:17:39 <Stskeeps> mece: http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/HandsetTestReport/N900Sanity20100921
Sep 22 07:17:40 <Stskeeps> no not horribly
Sep 22 07:18:05 <Duckboot> Stskeeps: No Highlights?
Sep 22 07:18:19 <Stskeeps> Duckboot: the bigger highlights were in earlier
Sep 22 07:18:28 <mece> LOL
Sep 22 07:18:45 <mece> eh unable to launch browser ey... well that's a bit of a bummer.
Sep 22 07:18:57 <Stskeeps> mece: i just spent my evening yesterday debugging the issue
Sep 22 07:19:02 <Stskeeps> i officially hate fennec from now on
Sep 22 07:20:45 <mece> Stskeeps, did you find the fault?
Sep 22 07:20:57 <Stskeeps> mece: it's a reproducable problem
Sep 22 07:45:48 * RST38h yawns
Sep 22 07:48:34 <RST38h> helo lcuk
Sep 22 07:48:38 <johnx> m00f RST38h
Sep 22 07:48:44 <RST38h> moo johnx
Sep 22 07:50:09 <johnx> RST38h, what's new in your half of the world?
Sep 22 07:51:22 <lcuk> hey RST38h johnx
Sep 22 07:51:53 <RST38h> johnx: rain.
Sep 22 07:51:58 <rmrfchik> wazzup
Sep 22 07:52:11 <johnx> so rain is new huh? yet another thing that seattle invented
Sep 22 07:52:52 <RST38h> ehhehe
Sep 22 07:53:15 <johnx> we had rain before it was cool
Sep 22 07:57:44 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Sep 22 08:00:56 <spinningcompass> Scotland invented rain, but Thomas Edison filed the first patent.
Sep 22 08:05:28 <crashanddie> spinningcompass: Scotland invented rain?
Sep 22 08:08:08 <johnx> crashanddie, yeah. but seattle made it cool
Sep 22 08:08:11 <RST38h> johnx: and will have rain long after there is somebody to enjoy it =)
Sep 22 08:09:47 <johnx> RST38h, yeah, trends do seem to stick around even after it seems like all their fans have moved on
Sep 22 09:02:54 <jacktheripper> we're losing! http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html
Sep 22 09:02:55 <Papayawhip> vote for the n900 :D http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html   it shouldn't loose against palm pre^^
Sep 22 09:03:00 <jacktheripper> rofl
Sep 22 09:03:01 <Papayawhip> pwned xD
Sep 22 09:05:55 <SunilThaha> Hi, could you please give pointers on how to get the libimmvibe installed in my scratchbox?
Sep 22 09:06:23 <SunilThaha> I am talking about the lib in this link - http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_nokia-applications_explicit_armel/immvibe/3.4.52-maemo0/
Sep 22 09:06:50 <Stskeeps> not sure you can
Sep 22 09:07:45 <SunilThaha> Stskeeps, is that reply for me?
Sep 22 09:07:53 <Stskeeps> yes
Sep 22 09:08:14 <SunilThaha> oh ... why is it that I cannot install that in scratchbox ?
Sep 22 09:08:29 <Stskeeps> it's authenticated by the device ID, i think
Sep 22 09:09:15 <SunilThaha> Stskeeps, I did not get you
Sep 22 09:09:35 <Stskeeps> basically that lib is not a 'maemo' api, to my knowledge, ie, no development headers for it
Sep 22 09:09:44 <Stskeeps> and it is only downloadable by the device itself
Sep 22 09:09:46 <Stskeeps> (n900)
Sep 22 09:11:04 <SunilThaha> so you mean to say .. there is no libimmvibe-dev package available?
Sep 22 09:11:18 <Stskeeps> afaik
Sep 22 09:12:38 <SunilThaha> I am confused .. how is it useful to have a lib installable only in device and there isn't a dev package there
Sep 22 09:13:06 <Stskeeps> dunno
Sep 22 09:13:36 <jacktheripper> anyone knows when's the poll ending ?
Sep 22 09:15:02 <jacekowski> yesterday
Sep 22 09:15:15 <jacekowski> hmm, today
Sep 22 09:16:26 <jacktheripper> :/
Sep 22 09:18:09 <Papayawhip> aww and the desktop development image is still missing -.-
Sep 22 09:19:03 <Papayawhip> and wow... one torrent seeder
Sep 22 09:21:49 <Papayawhip> can somebody upload the latest raw ubuntu desktop development image?
Sep 22 09:22:10 <jacekowski> download it from www
Sep 22 09:22:13 <jacekowski> not via torrent
Sep 22 09:22:23 <Papayawhip> it's missing
Sep 22 09:22:39 <Papayawhip> there is only the server version with nothing in it
Sep 22 09:23:25 <jacekowski> http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/download.html
Sep 22 09:23:36 <Papayawhip> klick the link
Sep 22 09:23:50 <Papayawhip> you will see there is no desktop image
Sep 22 09:24:34 <Papayawhip> i dont know why nokia removed this image
Sep 22 09:26:39 <Papayawhip> i just want to open eclipse and develop my application... in this case i have to build my own image... and this sucks
Sep 22 09:26:40 <MiXu-> It was pretty old
Sep 22 09:27:40 <Papayawhip> MiXu-: apt-get upgrade should solve this
Sep 22 09:27:50 <MiXu-> And besides the old image didn't even have the qt tools
Sep 22 09:29:26 <MiXu-> This just in from #qt: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html
Sep 22 09:30:34 <MiXu-> If you want scratchbox then that you'll have to install yourself
Sep 22 09:30:45 <MiXu-> But why bother when you can run stuff directly on the N900
Sep 22 09:31:36 <Papayawhip> sdk and scratbox have their own repos. i think this is no problem to keep this up to date
Sep 22 09:31:36 <lcuk> MiXu-, scratchbox helps with larger builds and full build system compatability
Sep 22 09:32:28 <crashanddie> also, historically, due to the rootfs size issue, installing build-essential on the NIT really crippled the device in terms of usability (as did most ill-thought applications)
Sep 22 09:43:39 <Papayawhip> use somone this image? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/PC/vpc-sdk/
Sep 22 09:51:13 <DocScrutinizer> moo
Sep 22 09:53:16 <DocScrutinizer> a 'noob' question: how should I do a (preferably) *complete* backup of kernel and rootfs of a N900, prior to reflashing?
Sep 22 09:54:00 <Stskeeps> i rsync rootfs to a sd card with -aHx
Sep 22 09:54:21 <DocScrutinizer> thanks
Sep 22 09:54:46 <DocScrutinizer> I guess kernel backup is futile
Sep 22 09:54:56 <Stskeeps> kernel.. well, it's certainly an interesting task
Sep 22 09:55:01 <Stskeeps> grab it from a FIASCO image or the deb
Sep 22 09:55:39 <DocScrutinizer> ok, maybe I got neither of both
Sep 22 09:57:00 <DocScrutinizer> but actually that's not my problem ATM, and in the end who cares about PR1.1 :-P
Sep 22 09:58:59 <DocScrutinizer> also FIASCO for second and >>Third Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900<< still on Nokia's server
Sep 22 09:59:03 <Scelt> frals: what library you use to rescale mms images? it takes amazingly long time comparing to the efficiency of f.e. imagemagick
Sep 22 10:01:39 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: mind to toss me the rsync line for c&p, I'm still waiting for coffee to kick in ;-)
Sep 22 10:04:40 <Stskeeps> rsync -aHx / /microsd
Sep 22 10:04:41 <Stskeeps> :P
Sep 22 10:04:47 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Sep 22 10:05:06 <Stskeeps> ext3 fs preferred
Sep 22 10:05:10 <Stskeeps> and then i make a ubifs out of it
Sep 22 10:05:24 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Sep 22 10:06:08 <Stskeeps> and refresh
Sep 22 10:06:11 <Stskeeps> er, reflash
Sep 22 10:06:15 <DocScrutinizer> as it happens, I got a ext3 partition of ~4GB on my card :-D
Sep 22 10:06:17 <Stskeeps> (check mer-project.blogspot.com)
Sep 22 10:06:28 <Papayawhip> hmh prefer rsync backup to a remote machine :D
Sep 22 10:06:33 <DocScrutinizer> thanks :-)
Sep 22 10:07:45 <DocScrutinizer> Papayawhip: I was pondeing the same, but my laptop also is @98% or sth (thanks to scratchbox :-/)
Sep 22 10:08:13 <Papayawhip> you should buy a big NAS :D
Sep 22 10:09:05 <DocScrutinizer> isn't it funny you need xxGB of development system to build a 4MB kernel :-P
Sep 22 10:09:58 <Papayawhip> hehe
Sep 22 10:10:05 <Papayawhip> http://pastebox.de/3EWvgaQY4q/  this is my backup script
Sep 22 10:10:21 <DocScrutinizer> (buy NAS) waiting for someone to sponsor it XD
Sep 22 10:11:27 <DocScrutinizer> a decent dsktop PC with 1 or 2 TB storage would maybe help as well
Sep 22 10:11:56 <kerio> i have a nas :3
Sep 22 10:12:03 <nidO> my nas is just a pc
Sep 22 10:12:44 <Papayawhip> the acer 340 nas is a nice device... but with windows homeserver as default operationg system -.-
Sep 22 10:12:48 <nidO> 5x750gb drives in raid5 with a hot standby works nicely
Sep 22 10:13:13 <kerio> i have a sheevaplug + a 1tb usb drive
Sep 22 10:13:16 <Papayawhip> nice^^
Sep 22 10:13:52 <Papayawhip> just have 2x2TB (raid 1) and one 1TB for transport
Sep 22 10:14:11 <DocScrutinizer> should backup to one of my net boxes :-P
Sep 22 10:14:53 <DocScrutinizer> maybe even load off the whole scary scratchbox to there
Sep 22 10:14:54 <Papayawhip> yep, but u should create a tar first :D
Sep 22 10:15:49 <nidO> big amounts of storage is supercheap and easy these days :<
Sep 22 10:16:37 <DocScrutinizer> my coffe isn't supercheap, everything else another class of considerations
Sep 22 10:16:37 <Papayawhip> if i understand the amazon cloud pricing list... 1TB net storage 2$ / week?
Sep 22 10:17:21 <jacekowski> yeah
Sep 22 10:17:23 <jacekowski> just storag
Sep 22 10:17:26 <jacekowski> storage
Sep 22 10:17:46 <Papayawhip> jep
Sep 22 10:17:59 <jacekowski> but you have to pay for transfer
Sep 22 10:18:02 <jacekowski> and for request
Sep 22 10:18:04 <nidO> via s3 it's what, 1.5 cents per gb per month isnt it, then transfer costs on top of it
Sep 22 10:18:15 <kerio> :o
Sep 22 10:18:18 <kerio> it's a lot!
Sep 22 10:18:37 <kerio> i would buy more HDs, but the problem is that i only have one usb port on the sheevaplug
Sep 22 10:18:38 <kerio> ._.
Sep 22 10:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> use a hub :-P
Sep 22 10:18:53 <Shadikka> USB hubs aren't that expensive
Sep 22 10:18:54 <kerio> using a hub is just not the same thing
Sep 22 10:18:58 <kerio> and i'm using one
Sep 22 10:19:04 <Shadikka> heh, quite a timing
Sep 22 10:19:13 <DocScrutinizer> USB sucks tbh
Sep 22 10:19:18 <kerio> it does
Sep 22 10:19:28 * Papayawhip is waiting for organic HDD's :P
Sep 22 10:19:29 <kerio> but meh, all i have to do is download massive amounts of music, videos and softwar
Sep 22 10:19:29 <kerio> e
Sep 22 10:19:36 <kerio> i mean, $LEGAL_STUFF
Sep 22 10:20:40 <Papayawhip> vote! vote! vote! :D http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html
Sep 22 10:20:55 <merlin1991> nah we're beaten, gotta stand to that
Sep 22 10:21:14 <Papayawhip> hmh, we have the bigger community
Sep 22 10:22:20 <Papayawhip> and more skills in manipulateing software xD
Sep 22 10:22:41 <merlin1991> yeah, script the hell out of that page
Sep 22 10:22:55 <merlin1991> b0rk the database, corrupt the idea of votes
Sep 22 10:23:21 <Papayawhip> it was just a joke -.-
Sep 22 10:23:31 <merlin1991> + write me an ati driver for my x300 so I have decent opengl support again :D
Sep 22 10:24:42 <merlin1991> I could play quake based games 2 years ago, but now running the radeon driver, 5 fps :/
Sep 22 10:25:17 <lcuk> it seems people have forgotten how to optimise and make things fast
Sep 22 10:25:22 <DocScrutinizer> WAAAAH, rsync not found. apt-get fails due to missing space and unmet dependencies
Sep 22 10:25:29 <frals> Scelt: PIL, aka python imaging library or something
Sep 22 10:25:29 <lcuk> perhaps its all the layers of redirection and complexity
Sep 22 10:26:35 <Scelt> frals: why not imagemagick or something more efficient? PIL takes a hell lot of a time to finish up a little scaling process :(
Sep 22 10:26:44 <merlin1991> well in my case it's crappy support for my hardware, and I don't see any updates that will help me in the future :(
Sep 22 10:28:29 <kerio> PIL is cool
Sep 22 10:28:39 <kerio> dammit we're losing
Sep 22 10:28:43 <kerio> guys, start the scripting
Sep 22 10:28:43 <lcuk> frals, does PIL include an internal C optimised scaling function
Sep 22 10:28:53 <lcuk> or are you doing the scaling pixel by pixel in native python code/
Sep 22 10:29:05 <lcuk> kerio, sell it better
Sep 22 10:29:27 <kerio> start the scripting please?
Sep 22 10:29:41 <merlin1991> hehe :D
Sep 22 10:29:41 <lcuk> Those pesky palm pre guys hid the voting from us, but now we know, its time to get a move on and vote :P
Sep 22 10:31:19 <kerio> "I have heavyly customised my phone to do just about what ever i want. They have patches for just about anything for this phone and if you wanted to run other os on it (which i dont know why you would) you can also do so on the palm pre. Right now i have mine overclocked ot 1ghz. Can the n900 do that? I hope pre takes it all!!!!!"
Sep 22 10:31:38 <frals> Scelt: because at the time it was meant to be the easy solution, didnt expect people to actually use it... :D
Sep 22 10:31:41 <merlin1991> what?
Sep 22 10:31:59 <frals> Scelt: should probably switch imagemagick, but i have almost no time to dev on fmms atm
Sep 22 10:32:02 <Scelt> frals: hah, gotcha. but maybe it's time to make it better
Sep 22 10:32:04 <frals> Scelt: patches welcome thou! ;-)
Sep 22 10:32:14 <lcuk> Scelt, was just gonna say ^^
Sep 22 10:32:16 <kerio> write a PymageMagick
Sep 22 10:32:44 <lcuk> frals, does fMMS allow transfer of patch files? :p
Sep 22 10:32:57 <lcuk> N900 - including super MMS
Sep 22 10:32:58 <Scelt> frals: I guess that. If it were perl, I would patch it but no time nor passion to learn python
Sep 22 10:33:12 <frals> lcuk: you can mms a patch file yes
Sep 22 10:33:15 <lcuk> :D
Sep 22 10:33:27 <frals> lcuk: it might get lost in traffic depending on operator thou
Sep 22 10:33:43 <kerio> and it costs
Sep 22 10:34:12 <lcuk> kerio, not the point here, people who want to use the service will
Sep 22 10:34:14 <frals> Scelt: understandable, dropping an example in the fmms thread on tmo would be welcome thou
Sep 22 10:34:18 <kerio> oh, sure
Sep 22 10:34:24 <kerio> it doesn't stop MMSes from being evil
Sep 22 10:34:30 <kerio> even more evil than SMSes, actually
Sep 22 10:34:49 <Scelt> frals: example of code or idea?
Sep 22 10:34:50 <lcuk> kerio, its not evil to make someone smile
Sep 22 10:35:20 <kerio> you mean to make $phone_company's_CEO smile?
Sep 22 10:35:21 <kerio> sure
Sep 22 10:35:28 <Scelt> frals: where I can find the fmms source code?
Sep 22 10:36:31 <lcuk> frals, based on what you said, can you send any binary data down the wire?
Sep 22 10:36:40 <lcuk> and is there a size limit?
Sep 22 10:36:44 <lcuk> (if so, what is it)
Sep 22 10:36:56 <kerio> and where's my autovoting script :(
Sep 22 10:37:35 <Scelt> frals: damn. have moved permanently to Finland?
Sep 22 10:39:10 <lcuk> Scelt, no, he stayed where he was, just hacked the gps sats to show he had moved a few hundred miles east
Sep 22 10:39:20 <Scelt> miles?
Sep 22 10:39:25 <Scelt> no miles here
Sep 22 10:40:08 <Scelt> lcuk: but maybe you can find the "permanently" word in my sentence. meaning not just a few months work trip but really living among the best of the people
Sep 22 10:41:32 <DocScrutinizer> seems I have to try cp -ax  instead of rsync
Sep 22 10:41:33 <frals> Scelt: gitorious.org/fmms - example code is fine, even if its perl (but please keep it readable for nonperl ppl ;))
Sep 22 10:41:51 <frals> lcuk: yes, depending on operator, e.g. my swedish operator doesnt limit file size or format
Sep 22 10:41:57 <jarkkom> you can't probably put binary data through real MMSC, they do have this content support check mechanism that will just redirect mms to email/web display if they think your phone can't handle it
Sep 22 10:42:01 <lcuk> frals, awesomeness
Sep 22 10:42:01 <frals> Scelt: yes ;)
Sep 22 10:42:06 <jarkkom> arbitrary binary data that is
Sep 22 10:42:23 * lcuk ponders new MMS media types :)
Sep 22 10:42:35 <Scelt> frals: kewl. where you living at? in the center of Helsinki?
Sep 22 10:42:49 <kerio> lcuk: steganography!
Sep 22 10:43:23 <jarkkom> but of course with N900 you can hack the headers to be whatever you want and tell MMSC you support everything
Sep 22 10:43:34 <kerio> i thought fmms already did that
Sep 22 10:43:45 <lcuk> kerio, no, that would only be a few bytes embedded within a picture
Sep 22 10:43:53 <kerio> lcuk: so send more pictures ;)
Sep 22 10:43:56 <DocScrutinizer> cp: invalid option -- x
Sep 22 10:43:56 <lcuk> frals just said basically its an accessible data port
Sep 22 10:43:58 <DocScrutinizer> BusyBox v1.10.2
Sep 22 10:44:00 <DocScrutinizer> \o/
Sep 22 10:44:13 <DocScrutinizer> FUCK busybox
Sep 22 10:44:34 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: my sheevaplug uses a full ubuntu 9.04 by default, and it has 512mb of internal flash
Sep 22 10:44:41 <lcuk> oi, as an op around here you should abide by the same manners as others DocScrutinizer
Sep 22 10:44:43 <kerio> the n900 has... 65 times that?
Sep 22 10:44:51 <frals> Scelt: yeah, sw part of punaovouri
Sep 22 10:44:57 <Scelt> :D
Sep 22 10:45:04 <kerio> lcuk: i think there's an explicit exception in the swearing rule
Sep 22 10:45:14 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: ack, sorry
Sep 22 10:45:15 <kerio> "no swearing, except when directed towards busybox"
Sep 22 10:45:35 <Scelt> frals: you may just call it rödberg as it's known amongst finns as rööperi
Sep 22 10:46:33 <Scelt> frals: did you move for a work or a woman?
Sep 22 10:46:57 <Stskeeps> Scelt: most common reasons to move to finland?
Sep 22 10:46:57 <Stskeeps> :P
Sep 22 10:47:26 <DocScrutinizer> ok, apt-get is screwed, busybox is screwed, and I'm out of ideas how to backup this rootfs
Sep 22 10:47:37 <Scelt> Stskeeps: only reasons I can think of moving to another country
Sep 22 10:47:50 <Stskeeps> Scelt: lower tax helps sometimes
Sep 22 10:47:50 <Stskeeps> :P
Sep 22 10:48:10 <Scelt> Stskeeps: well yeah, but I doubt of frals getting that much money from Nokia
Sep 22 10:48:49 <jarkkom> nokia is bit better these days, they used to be really cheap though
Sep 22 10:49:12 <DocScrutinizer> ~lart nokia for not including a rescue system and multiboot by default
Sep 22 10:49:13 * infobot whips out a sword and chops nokia in half for not including a rescue system and multiboot by default
Sep 22 10:49:16 <Scelt> relying on the good reference
Sep 22 10:50:11 <jarkkom> Scelt, it's not like nokia is very prestigious place to work these days with all the troubles they've got so they better pay new hires well :)
Sep 22 10:50:40 <Scelt> yeah :)
Sep 22 10:51:46 <DocScrutinizer> esp since nobody wants to move to Tempere or HEL really
Sep 22 10:51:47 <nidO> and they need a lot of them, as theres a mass evacuation underway
Sep 22 10:52:36 <frals> Scelt: work, my woman is still in sthlm ;<
Sep 22 10:54:03 <Scelt> frals: why so? she should be with you. making you dinner, washing dishes etc.
Sep 22 10:54:30 <kerio> making sammiches in the kitchen!</misogynist>
Sep 22 10:55:10 <Scelt> sudo make me a sandwich
Sep 22 10:55:12 <lcuk> why do you think he wrote fMMS - she sends him photos of sandwiches every night!
Sep 22 10:55:25 <Scelt> frals: if I'm corrent, this example uses imagemagick command just like a terminal call? no mighty libraries. convert = subprocess.check_call(["convert", vars['source_image_fullpath'], "-scale", vars['sizes'][size]['width'] + 'x' + vars['sizes'][size]['height'] + '!',  new_path])
Sep 22 10:56:00 <frals> Scelt: she still has 6months left in uni before she gets her degree
Sep 22 10:56:19 <frals> Scelt: looks about right i think, if the binary is 'convert'
Sep 22 10:56:25 <Scelt> yeah, it is
Sep 22 10:56:49 <Scelt> frals: and then she moves to rödberg with you?
Sep 22 10:59:46 <Papayawhip> oh my god http://www.deutschepost.de/dpag?tab=1&skin=hi&check=yes&lang=de_EN&xmlFile=link1022792_1022790
Sep 22 11:05:05 <RST38h> Papaya: Not new
Sep 22 11:05:48 <Arkenoi> seems that n9 will have two keys more than n900, that's enough for a decent cyrillic keyboard
Sep 22 11:06:37 <Scelt> Arkenoi: url
Sep 22 11:06:40 <Scelt> n9 with meego?
Sep 22 11:06:45 <Arkenoi> yep
Sep 22 11:06:50 <Scelt> give me an url
Sep 22 11:06:52 <Scelt> immediately
Sep 22 11:06:55 <Myrtti> rumours :-<
Sep 22 11:06:55 <Scelt> I'm keen to know
Sep 22 11:07:02 <Scelt> Myrtti: ilonpilaaja
Sep 22 11:07:12 <Arkenoi> there is a lot of photos floating around on the internets
Sep 22 11:07:13 <Myrtti> Scelt: realisti
Sep 22 11:07:16 <Scelt> couldn't say it in English :P
Sep 22 11:07:23 <Scelt> Arkenoi: oh, so just rumours
Sep 22 11:07:24 <Myrtti> Scelt: "spoilsport"
Sep 22 11:07:28 <Arkenoi> yep
Sep 22 11:07:35 <Scelt> Myrtti: okaydokay, next time then
Sep 22 11:07:40 <Arkenoi> but they are quite consistent from multiple sources
Sep 22 11:08:20 <Myrtti> I tend not to believe a thing before I see an official press release, but that's just me
Sep 22 11:08:37 <Scelt> frals: I could do you a patch if I got a clue how to test it in action :P woudln't wanna give you a code I haven't tested at all even though it may work perfectly ;)
Sep 22 11:08:58 <lcuk> Scelt, so test test test it yourself
Sep 22 11:09:38 <Scelt> "if I got a clue how to test it in action"
Sep 22 11:09:47 <Scelt> damn man, you don't read the whole sentences today
Sep 22 11:09:50 <frals> Scelt: just giving me the commandline should be enough as its trivial to convert to a python snippet for me
Sep 22 11:10:12 <frals> Scelt: how to test it would be to start fmms, tap new mms, attaching a huge image and then try to send and see what happens ;D
Sep 22 11:10:27 <Scelt> but first packaging and etc.
Sep 22 11:10:35 <Scelt> frals: I was hoping you'd say so ;)
Sep 22 11:12:29 <johnny_> hello\
Sep 22 11:12:58 <johnny_> hey guys i found a new bug wid dis device
Sep 22 11:13:18 <johnny_> a serious security bug
Sep 22 11:13:44 <Appiah> !!
Sep 22 11:13:46 <pigeon> only one?
Sep 22 11:13:56 <Appiah> another one
Sep 22 11:14:22 <johnny_> actually a few
Sep 22 11:15:09 <Appiah> so you found a few serious security bugs
Sep 22 11:15:26 <johnny_> yep
Sep 22 11:15:35 <johnny_> certificate issues
Sep 22 11:16:28 <Scelt> ju
Sep 22 11:16:32 <Scelt> wrong channel
Sep 22 11:16:44 <johnny_> suggest then
Sep 22 11:19:05 <Scelt> frals: convert orig_image -resample newWdithxnewHeight\! new_image -> convert /tmp/1.jpg -resample 128x90! /tmp/2.jpg
Sep 22 11:19:22 <Scelt> frals: of course you gotta have imagemagick installed
Sep 22 11:20:49 <Scelt> frals: there are many different options to do that resizing. resample, sample and scale are wrappers where iirc resample has the best quality and scale is the fastest
Sep 22 11:21:07 <Scelt> frals: wrappers for -resize
Sep 22 11:22:28 <jarkkom> is there some kind of more "maemo-like" (like one in calendar app) date/time selector available in QT, the default one seems kind of clunky on actual device
Sep 22 11:23:58 <merlin1991> uh oh, I think the readeon module is dying on me, random square areas turn into rubish until I force a refresh of the screen
Sep 22 11:33:59 <lolloo> pidgin messenger notify plugin is not working om N900
Sep 22 11:34:28 <lolloo> how do I know if some one PM me without the phone blinking or making sound?
Sep 22 11:34:37 <Appiah> vibrates? :)
Sep 22 11:34:45 <lolloo> Pidgin doesnt notify
Sep 22 11:34:52 <lolloo> Pidgin messenger
Sep 22 11:34:56 <Appiah> what protocols do you use?
Sep 22 11:35:09 <Appiah> have you searched for bugs?
Sep 22 11:35:12 <lolloo> msn. IRC, ICQ
Sep 22 11:35:29 <lolloo> yes, do I need to install python maybe?
Sep 22 11:35:56 <lolloo> Pidgin messenger doesnt make not even notify sound or blink or vibrate
Sep 22 11:36:19 <Appiah> PR1.2?
Sep 22 11:36:26 <lolloo> yes
Sep 22 11:36:44 <lolloo> is it beacuse I use LED notifier app?
Sep 22 11:37:10 <lolloo> even Xchat notify plugin is not working
Sep 22 11:38:04 <lolloo> how do I know if I am using PR1.2?
Sep 22 11:38:15 <lolloo> is it in the About
Sep 22 11:38:16 <merlin1991> settings about
Sep 22 11:38:58 <merlin1991> pr1.2 is something like 10.2010.19-1
Sep 22 11:39:12 <lolloo> it says version : 10.2010.19
Sep 22 11:39:21 <merlin1991> should be pr1.2
Sep 22 11:39:45 <lolloo> strange
Sep 22 11:40:03 <lolloo> doesnt notify me also in xchat nor Pidgin
Sep 22 11:40:41 <lolloo> no sound or vibrate or blinking
Sep 22 11:41:33 <lolloo> should I flash my firmware again?
Sep 22 11:42:05 <lolloo> other notfies like miss call or e-mail is working
Sep 22 11:42:20 <lolloo> but not for Pidgin
Sep 22 11:42:39 <lolloo> Pidgin messenger doesn't notify me
Sep 22 12:10:39 <lolloo> so any suggestion?
Sep 22 12:12:35 <sp3000> dunno, maybe they didn't implement that?
Sep 22 12:17:35 <lolloo> it is implemntes
Sep 22 12:19:45 <maxja> hi
Sep 22 12:31:48 <maxja> j
Sep 22 12:40:39 <maxja> how can i make maemo xterm beep?
Sep 22 12:51:34 <DocScrutinizer> guess you're outa luck
Sep 22 13:01:50 <flashn> maxja, xset
Sep 22 13:02:09 <MohammadAG51> need hostmode testers
Sep 22 13:06:02 <alterego> MohammadAG51: !!!
Sep 22 13:06:05 * alterego raises hand
Sep 22 13:06:10 <alterego> I've got al lthe gear too! :D
Sep 22 13:06:35 <alterego> Crap, though not right now, is it okay if I ping you tomorrow morning?
Sep 22 13:10:05 <lovelyboy> Hi,  I am trying to draw a sphere with Qt/OpenGL ES 2.0, which is using the shading language. I need to build the vertices, texture coordinates and normals arrays for a sphere. So I wonder if there is such an example code for creating a sphere with QT+OpenGL ES 2.0.
Sep 22 13:16:11 <jarkkom> lovelyboy, there's one in QT examples http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/trees/4.5/examples/opengl/hellogl_es2
Sep 22 13:18:21 <lovelyboy> jarkkom, i saw that one, but the problem is in that example, it creates a qt icon, which is good. But in my case, the vertices array for a sphere seems much more complex,
Sep 22 13:19:21 <lovelyboy> and, i guess it  needs some kind of math functions to generate such vertices array, as well as  the texture coordinates and normals
Sep 22 13:20:14 <w00t_> Jaffa: *some* developers make crap testers of their own (or in fact any) code, certainly :-P
Sep 22 13:20:15 <maxja> how can osso-xterm beep in maemo
Sep 22 13:20:18 <maxja> ?
Sep 22 13:20:30 <maxja> echo -e "\a" doesn't work
Sep 22 13:44:58 <Jaffa> w00t_: I'm not sure I've met *any* developer who was _consistently_ good at user testing their code (rather than unit testing & TDDificating it)
Sep 22 13:45:20 <lopz> hi :)
Sep 22 13:46:05 <w00t_> Jaffa: I'm usually fairly anal about it, I don't think I tend to break stuff often
Sep 22 14:08:25 <rmrfchik> http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/21/ce-oh-no-he-didnt-anssi-vanjoki-says-using-android-is-like-pe/
Sep 22 14:08:32 <rmrfchik> fuuuuuuu
Sep 22 14:09:55 <Papayawhip> http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html vote vote vote
Sep 22 14:10:06 <Papayawhip> we can win :D
Sep 22 14:10:10 <Termana> rmrfchik, the article points out that Nokia believes fragmenting user experience is a good idea.
Sep 22 14:10:51 <rmrfchik> voting for palm..
Sep 22 14:10:55 <rmrfchik> ;)
Sep 22 14:11:10 <Termana> rmrfchik, naughty boy ;)
Sep 22 14:11:38 <rmrfchik> Palm Pre 53.07%
Sep 22 14:12:35 * Jaffa 's not used a Pre...
Sep 22 14:12:47 <Termana> Papayawhip, we're 327 votes behind. Is that even that amount of people still in the Maemo community?
Sep 22 14:12:50 <Termana> :P
Sep 22 14:14:16 <Papayawhip> Termana: today at 9 o clock we was 500 votes behind
Sep 22 14:14:39 <Papayawhip> we can raise :D
Sep 22 14:16:01 <GAN900> Pre might be cooler with a reasonable screen resolution.
Sep 22 14:17:20 <Khertan_> Hi everyone !
Sep 22 14:18:13 <MohammadAG> Termana, 509 users here, stfu :P
Sep 22 14:18:51 <Termana> MohammadAG, heh :P come on, do I need to make it clearer for you that I was pulling everyones leg?
Sep 22 14:27:13 <jhp> Hi everyone. I have a strange problem. I have a N900 and I have had it with 2 phones now that after some time the volume on the headset gets very low resulting in not being able to hear anyone anymore. Has anyone seen this before?
Sep 22 14:35:07 <ShadowJK> hm.. I obtained a USB umts modem
Sep 22 14:35:14 <GAN900> Yes, on my prototype.
Sep 22 14:35:18 <ShadowJK> it reports its IMEI is 000000000000000
Sep 22 14:35:28 <GAN900> Haven't seen it on a retail unit.
Sep 22 14:35:33 <ShadowJK> unsurprisingly doesn't work :D
Sep 22 14:36:03 <Jaffa> jhp: On the "headset" do you mean the normal speaker?
Sep 22 14:36:27 <Jaffa> jhp: I had that with a prototype and sent it back. Had two others which have been fine, but there are other reports of it too
Sep 22 14:37:10 <Jaffa> jhp: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=n900+call+volume+low
Sep 22 14:44:15 <an0therb0x> will there be any more firmware updates for the N900 ?
Sep 22 14:45:08 <GAN900> Maybe one
Sep 22 14:47:42 <an0therb0x> i am somewhat surprised with how Nokia has handled the N900, supposedly their first "real" shot in the so called smartphone wars and now it seem it was a misfire .. with the announcement of 4 new s^3 devices
Sep 22 14:48:39 <kerio> the n900 was never a participant in the smartphone wars
Sep 22 14:48:45 <kerio> if anything, because it's not a smartphone
Sep 22 14:54:38 <an0therb0x> seems like semantics, what is the difference between a "smartphone" and "mobile computer"
Sep 22 14:55:10 <toggles> fanboys
Sep 22 14:57:34 <aslani> from PeterÃMaemoMarketing: N900 was never meant as smartphone,but as mobile computer with phone feature, designed,for predominant landscape use, step 4 out of 5 in taking Maemo to mainstreamsmartphone market.
Sep 22 14:58:27 * ShadowJK wonders if android has overtaken nokia in the "smartphone wars" yet
Sep 22 14:59:01 <jhp> Jaffa: Yes, on the normal speaker. The one you hold against your ear.
Sep 22 14:59:24 <jhp> I hardly hear anything, and it gets worse and worse every day.
Sep 22 14:59:47 <jhp> I can now only use it with the earpeaces.
Sep 22 15:00:10 <GAN900> a mobile computer is a laptop with a cellular modem that fits in your pocket.
Sep 22 15:17:51 <Khertan_> rahahahahah !!! Need QT 4.7 to deploy my apps !
Sep 22 15:18:17 <Stskeeps> isn't qt4.7 in extras-devel?
Sep 22 15:19:10 <Khertan_> Stskeeps: yep but i mean in a pr release :)
Sep 22 15:19:26 <Stskeeps> ah
Sep 22 15:19:29 <Khertan_> i cannot push experimental libs to extras :)
Sep 22 15:19:29 * Stskeeps hopes that comes
Sep 22 15:19:35 <Khertan_> Stskeeps: it ll :)
Sep 22 15:19:41 <Khertan_> it will ...
Sep 22 15:19:46 <Khertan_> just be patient
Sep 22 15:20:12 <Khertan_> currently i got many bugs report that are qt 4.6 bugs :)
Sep 22 15:20:46 <Khertan_> Stskeeps: maybe you can help me and explain me what is a UTF-8 hyphenations i didn't understand :)
Sep 22 15:20:55 <Khertan_> http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-1510?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:changehistory-tabpanel
Sep 22 15:20:56 <Khertan_> :)
Sep 22 15:21:00 <Stskeeps> Khertan_: no idea
Sep 22 15:21:20 <Khertan_> :)
Sep 22 15:21:23 <Khertan_> thx anyway
Sep 22 15:21:47 <Khertan_> i ask because google translate hyphenations(en) in hyphenations(fr)
Sep 22 15:21:51 <Khertan_> :)
Sep 22 15:23:11 <Khertan_> ok i understand ... it s a word truncature :)
Sep 22 15:23:37 <Khertan_> but in utf-8 the truncation symbol isn't the same as the minus symbol :)
Sep 22 15:24:30 <luke-jr> Khertan_: what insanity is this? :P
Sep 22 15:24:37 <luke-jr> not even *Gentoo* has Qt 4.7 yet
Sep 22 15:25:02 <luke-jr> LTS are bound to be on 4.5
Sep 22 15:25:04 <luke-jr> or 4.4
Sep 22 15:25:06 <Scelt> frals: did you get that commandline call?
Sep 22 15:27:55 <kfx> slackware ships qt 4.6
Sep 22 15:29:59 <fredrinN900> good morning
Sep 22 15:44:22 <pog> hello, I'm trying to cusomize my N900. Is there a possibility to sort the application in another way (on the desktop, where all icons are)? Many Icons I dont need. Ohters I need I have to scroll first to the bottom.
Sep 22 15:45:09 <luke-jr> pog: yes
Sep 22 15:45:12 <nidO> you can alter the desktop however you want, and you can re-order things in the application list
Sep 22 15:45:17 <luke-jr> pog: did you watch the tutorial video
Sep 22 15:45:21 <luke-jr> ?
Sep 22 15:46:37 <pog> i'll will watch it again, may be I havn't recogized that there was a description, when I looked it.
Sep 22 15:46:40 <GAN900> pog, tap'n'hold
Sep 22 15:46:49 <GAN900> Or Catorize is nice too.
Sep 22 15:47:10 <pog> thanks for the hints.
Sep 22 15:48:32 <lcuk> GAN900, ApMeFo is looking good!
Sep 22 15:48:34 <lcuk> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/09/17/is-designing-ui-simple-with-qt/
Sep 22 15:48:47 <lcuk> pog ^
Sep 22 15:51:48 <Jaffa> lcuk: Pft, no offence to hrw but Catorise is nicer cos it's the shizzle.
Sep 22 15:52:21 <hrw> Jaffa: no offence taken. Catorise is indeed nicer
Sep 22 15:52:44 <hrw> ApMeFo allows to create folder and move around them but Catorise does work automatically
Sep 22 15:52:50 <hrw> both have different users
Sep 22 15:52:53 <Jaffa> hrw: And it's difficult to rewrite in Qt. And won't work with the flat, iOS-like paged thing of MeeGo
Sep 22 15:52:59 * Jaffa nods
Sep 22 15:53:51 <Papayawhip> http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html  30 votes missing^^
Sep 22 15:56:41 <luke-jr> vote Palm Pre since N900 isn't a smartphone
Sep 22 15:57:05 <Papayawhip> it's a smartphone-tablet
Sep 22 15:57:31 <MohammadAG> 15 votes lol
Sep 22 15:57:39 <MohammadAG> that was fast
Sep 22 15:57:48 <luke-jr> 15 votes means this poll is meaningless
Sep 22 15:57:53 <kfx> do they even sell the palm pre any more
Sep 22 15:59:22 <Papayawhip> 10 votes :P
Sep 22 15:59:43 <MohammadAG> 9
Sep 22 15:59:44 <MohammadAG> xD
Sep 22 16:00:59 <MohammadAG> haha, 14
Sep 22 16:01:03 <bef0rd> palm pre looked nice
Sep 22 16:01:07 <bef0rd> never used it though
Sep 22 16:03:42 * DocScrutinizer is going to *love* meego GUI, mmmmmm </sarcasm>
Sep 22 16:07:35 <hrw> I played a bit with palm pre. did not liked it
Sep 22 16:08:22 <Termana> You will burn in hell if we lose the poll and you didn't vote
Sep 22 16:08:24 <DocScrutinizer> and catorise, while nice by concept, is relying on the fubar categories of repo rsp hildon app manager. I never find anything there in the category I think it might be, so end up with using 'all' in the end, each single time
Sep 22 16:11:25 <DocScrutinizer> ApMeFo is great (though objections regarding the config UI are hard to argue against)
Sep 22 16:11:36 <MohammadAG> Termana, does it matter? it's actually two forums and two communities voting
Sep 22 16:12:05 <MohammadAG> the palm pre doesn't beat the nexus
Sep 22 16:12:32 <Termana> MohammadAG, I see your sense of humour is at an all time low tonight
Sep 22 16:12:37 <Termana> :P
Sep 22 16:12:51 <MohammadAG> yes, after all I'm cracking networks to get the votes up
Sep 22 16:13:02 <MohammadAG> and.. there's the WEP key
Sep 22 16:13:04 <MohammadAG> jk :P
Sep 22 16:13:06 <RST38h> Ok, moo.
Sep 22 16:13:52 <lcuk> Jaffa, hrw - of course, the biggest winner here is open source :) being able to select the best and even improve tooling knowledge by helping the other ;)
Sep 22 16:14:02 <DocScrutinizer> also using icon reordering in any of the menus tends to break ApMeFo menus, so after draging around icons you need to start up ApMeFo and save the config again
Sep 22 16:14:16 <RST38h> lcuk <-- being sugary-positive again tonight
Sep 22 16:14:40 <Jaffa> lcuk: You've been drinking far too much kool-aid recently. On any new medications? ;-)
Sep 22 16:15:03 <DocScrutinizer> basically ApMeFo needs integration into hildon desktop manager, or hildon app launcher
Sep 22 16:15:05 <lcuk> RST38h, I would be *really* sugary sweet if you would help make an official open source Nokia emulator ;)
Sep 22 16:15:18 <RST38h> lcuk: Why not ask hrw?
Sep 22 16:15:26 <RST38h> lcuk: He had one running, on Qemu
Sep 22 16:15:58 <hrw> lcuk: Nokia provides qemu + maemo5 image in Qt SDK
Sep 22 16:16:01 <lcuk> thats a good point, but from what I discovered the older nokias are more custom chipsets
Sep 22 16:16:12 <lcuk> hrw, I mean emulating old school nokia devices
Sep 22 16:16:13 <MohammadAG> 1 vote LOL
Sep 22 16:16:15 <RST38h> why do you need to emulate an older nokia though?
Sep 22 16:16:17 <RST38h> ah, I see
Sep 22 16:16:28 <MohammadAG> N900 beats pre!
Sep 22 16:16:31 <hrw> lcuk: define 'old school'
Sep 22 16:16:37 * MohammadAG likes watching cat & mouse shit :P
Sep 22 16:16:42 <lcuk> 3210 black&white snake era
Sep 22 16:16:46 <hrw> haha
Sep 22 16:16:56 <lcuk> when phones were phones!
Sep 22 16:17:00 * MohammadAG found his 3410
Sep 22 16:17:19 <RST38h> Mohammad: Not yet, we need more margin! =)
Sep 22 16:17:20 <lcuk> and you could punish the buttons without lag or complaints about fingernails or touch sensitivity etc
Sep 22 16:17:45 <RST38h> you want me to simulate the physical shape too? =)
Sep 22 16:17:49 <lcuk> nahh
Sep 22 16:18:01 <lcuk> that can be done like you did the Ti emu
Sep 22 16:18:21 <lcuk> just replacable faces, nokia has a back catalogue big enough to restock ovi with thousands of the things
Sep 22 16:18:28 <DocScrutinizer> HP emu >> Ti emu
Sep 22 16:22:00 <lcuk> RST38h, http://liqbase.net/liq.20100830_nokia3210.png
Sep 22 16:22:34 <RST38h> lcuk: why?=)
Sep 22 16:22:59 <lcuk> why not :) everyone has a favourite old phone and it would be kinda cool to have a fully working emulated one
Sep 22 16:23:15 * RST38h suggests lcuk buys himself a 20x2 backlit alphanumeric LCD
Sep 22 16:23:27 <lcuk> not the intent RST38h
Sep 22 16:23:29 <RST38h> Connect it to your PC and scroll email subjects there =)
Sep 22 16:23:36 <lcuk> oldschool meego UX
Sep 22 16:23:53 <RST38h> ah now I am getting it
Sep 22 16:24:01 <RST38h> you want to use this thing for dialing
Sep 22 16:24:23 <RST38h> not very difficult, but it is not going to be nearly as nice as the real thing
Sep 22 16:24:57 <lcuk> :) isn't it a shame we think new things are not going to work as well as old things.
Sep 22 16:25:18 <jpinx-eeepc> generally true :)
Sep 22 16:26:04 <RST38h> new things are usually cheaper
Sep 22 16:53:49 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, ouch. Too bad you weren't here when we put together the categories.
Sep 22 16:55:03 <johnsq> Hi
Sep 22 16:55:27 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: Believe me, you wouldn't want me around
Sep 22 16:56:48 <GAN900> And I agree, I don't think we really hit the mark for the categories.
Sep 22 17:01:15 <inkbottle> Is there any workaround for "bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304"?
Sep 22 17:04:09 <lcuk> inkbottle, stop putting quotes round the URL and prefix it with http:// generally stops it being a problem
Sep 22 17:04:40 <lcuk> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304
Sep 22 17:04:43 <povbot> Bug 10304: Contacts not being recognised in Phone or SMS Conversations
Sep 22 17:05:28 <RST38h> btw is there a messaging plugin that shows emails with the rest of the messages?
Sep 22 17:06:24 <lcuk> inkbottle, are you the reporter?
Sep 22 17:06:29 <inkbottle> no
Sep 22 17:06:38 <lcuk> do you experience this problem?
Sep 22 17:07:04 <inkbottle> but I have this since I upgraded to PR-1.2
Sep 22 17:07:21 <inkbottle> yes every time
Sep 22 17:08:46 <inkbottle> for both sms and phone calls: can't know who is calling
Sep 22 17:09:10 <lcuk> inkbottle, I don't see the actual numbers listed from anyone in the comments
Sep 22 17:09:14 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: bug #10304
Sep 22 17:09:16 <lcuk> what number is shown on the screen
Sep 22 17:09:17 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304 Contacts not being recognised in Phone or SMS Conversations
Sep 22 17:09:20 <lcuk> and what number is in the contact
Sep 22 17:09:38 <lcuk> i am reading that DocScrutinizer
Sep 22 17:09:56 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: just suggesting a shorter syntax
Sep 22 17:10:40 <MohammadAG> bug 10304
Sep 22 17:10:52 <MohammadAG> naw, that used to work
Sep 22 17:10:52 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Sep 22 17:11:03 <DocScrutinizer> bug 1111
Sep 22 17:11:04 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1111 [TRACKER] Maemo GTK+ 2.10 Regressions
Sep 22 17:11:08 <MohammadAG> wtf
Sep 22 17:11:28 <MohammadAG> bug 10304
Sep 22 17:11:29 <DocScrutinizer> uniq
Sep 22 17:11:32 <inkbottle> lcuk: i was verifying: just the same
Sep 22 17:11:36 <MohammadAG> bug 1111
Sep 22 17:11:45 <MohammadAG> WTF
Sep 22 17:11:45 <lcuk> inkbottle, just the same? please type them!
Sep 22 17:11:53 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: try a new one
Sep 22 17:11:53 <lcuk> with spaces etc
Sep 22 17:11:57 <MohammadAG> oh
Sep 22 17:12:01 <MohammadAG> it ignores dupes
Sep 22 17:12:03 <MohammadAG> right :P
Sep 22 17:12:08 <MohammadAG> bug 10305
Sep 22 17:12:08 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10305 Application Manager in PR1.2 says not enough space even though there is.
Sep 22 17:13:13 <inkbottle> lcuk: you mean i actually call someone (with typing the number)
Sep 22 17:13:35 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: yeah, povbot is a smart sucker
Sep 22 17:13:36 <lcuk> inkbottle, i dont experience the problem
Sep 22 17:13:47 <lcuk> so I am just wondering exactly what is shon
Sep 22 17:13:54 <lcuk> shown
Sep 22 17:14:12 <lcuk> and what the heck could have changed in it
Sep 22 17:14:58 <MohammadAG> still haven't figured out how to update the code in .cpp files from .ui files in Qt Creator
Sep 22 17:15:56 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: :nod: - tel nr matching (and normalizing) isn't exactly trivial. Though aiui Nokia chosen the most simple approach of matching max 7 digits right-aligned
Sep 22 17:16:14 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: qmake iirc
Sep 22 17:17:28 <inkbottle> lcuk: i m doing some tests
Sep 22 17:18:14 <lcuk> inkbottle, then please put your findings on the bug report as additional information
Sep 22 17:18:38 <lcuk> i see many people generalising but not explicitly listing something that can be inserted and tested reproducably
Sep 22 17:27:21 <inkbottle> lcuk: I have no real results so far; however I have one information: I leave in France. Numbers are this sort: say 06 99 99 99 99 for a mobile phone; but when it's coming in it could be "+336 99 99 99 99" though it could be displayed by the phone "06 99..."
Sep 22 17:27:32 <inkbottle> however it's more than seven digits on the right
Sep 22 17:29:11 <lcuk> inkbottle, so the phone numbers in contacts have spaces?
Sep 22 17:29:38 <visz> is there audible bell implementation for xterm?
Sep 22 17:32:54 <inkbottle> no it's for you to read
Sep 22 17:33:48 <lcuk> inkbottle, I am not the software
Sep 22 17:34:03 <inkbottle> :-)
Sep 22 17:38:00 <inkbottle> lcuk: ok, I've got it :-)
Sep 22 17:38:41 <inkbottle> The incoming call arrives "+336999..."
Sep 22 17:39:34 <inkbottle> If in your contacts you have an occurrence 06999... it is it that is matched
Sep 22 17:39:48 <inkbottle> so not matched
Sep 22 17:39:57 <RST38h> not matched
Sep 22 17:40:13 <lcuk> does the phone number have dots in it?
Sep 22 17:40:25 <inkbottle> by the way you can't manually insert a "+" in a contact's phone number
Sep 22 17:40:37 <inkbottle> but you can by the way of cut and past
Sep 22 17:40:56 <inkbottle> lcuk: no dots
Sep 22 17:41:04 <inkbottle> but a "+" in front
Sep 22 17:41:42 <lcuk> can you please just show me the actual numbers used completely without reformatting because the crus here is very likely what DocScrutinizer said
Sep 22 17:41:49 <lcuk> crux
Sep 22 17:41:51 <inkbottle> (dots were for the numbers on the right)
Sep 22 17:43:06 <ShadowJK> you can manually insert a +, but for some reason you should NOT press the blue fn key when you try to make a +
Sep 22 17:43:11 <DocScrutinizer> inkbottle: if it's for privacy, then replace *all* 5 by 3, and 4 by 7
Sep 22 17:43:23 <RST38h> ShadowJK: simple
Sep 22 17:43:44 <lcuk> yes, the digits themselves are mostly unimportant but its the length and structure that is
Sep 22 17:43:44 <RST38h> ShadowJK: the input method for that widget has been switched to "dialpad" or something
Sep 22 17:43:53 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: exactly
Sep 22 17:44:04 <RST38h> ShadowJK: I think you can do it yourself with any text input widget
Sep 22 17:44:06 <DocScrutinizer> aka "implicit FN"
Sep 22 17:44:18 <lcuk> its the same for ip address fields too
Sep 22 17:44:31 <inkbottle> lcuk: ok the number displayed for incoming calls is "+33699999999" ie: "plus sign", number 33, and still 9 digits begining with a 6
Sep 22 17:44:37 <inkbottle> is it ok?
Sep 22 17:44:42 <lcuk> :D
Sep 22 17:44:44 <lcuk> yes
Sep 22 17:45:25 <lcuk> and how is that number stored in your address book
Sep 22 17:45:59 <inkbottle> and then it seems it works; but there must not be "0699999999" in the contact!!
Sep 22 17:46:34 <inkbottle> lcuk: when you give a phone number you give "0699999999"
Sep 22 17:46:38 <DocScrutinizer> that's odd as I thought Nokia is uing >=7 digits from right for matching
Sep 22 17:47:08 <inkbottle> ans the "+" is not accessible when you type numbers
Sep 22 17:47:16 <inkbottle> and*
Sep 22 17:47:16 <DocScrutinizer> it IS
Sep 22 17:47:45 <lcuk> slow down, and dont side track a moment
Sep 22 17:47:53 <inkbottle> however I put the "+" by cut and past as I said
Sep 22 17:47:59 <lcuk> so in your contacts, you have "Mum: 0699999999"
Sep 22 17:48:09 <DocScrutinizer> inkbottle: just press the 'S' key
Sep 22 17:48:09 <inkbottle> lcuk: yes
Sep 22 17:48:16 <lcuk> and if your mum calls in on "+33699999999" it works as expected
Sep 22 17:48:20 <lcuk> and shows "Mum"
Sep 22 17:48:30 <inkbottle> yes
Sep 22 17:48:51 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, so where's the problem then?
Sep 22 17:50:41 <inkbottle> lcuk: but my Mum composes 0699999999; but it arrives "+33699999999" (see?)
Sep 22 17:50:46 * RST38h is actually looking for a way to export/import the maemo5 address book
Sep 22 17:51:08 <DocScrutinizer> visz: (audible bell implementation for xterm) afaik there is none
Sep 22 17:51:17 <lcuk> RST38h, theres many contact modification/lookup tools
Sep 22 17:51:24 <lcuk> inkbottle, no
Sep 22 17:51:27 <lcuk> i dont see
Sep 22 17:52:20 <DocScrutinizer> inkbottle: where's the problem?
Sep 22 17:52:59 <DocScrutinizer> inkbottle: it's quite natural when carrier decides to expand to a fully qualified number for signalling
Sep 22 17:53:03 <ShadowJK> oh luke-jr's going to love this
Sep 22 17:53:16 * ShadowJK is reading deadtree-magazine
Sep 22 17:53:50 <ShadowJK> they have article on a nokia research project, with the headline "Smart radios arriving in a couple of years"
Sep 22 17:53:56 <inkbottle> lcuk: It is sort of "modified": the two forms "+33699999999" and "0699999999" refers to the same; but "0699999999" is for human and  "+33699999999" for carrier as DocScrutinizer would say :-)
Sep 22 17:53:59 <ShadowJK> soft radio :)
Sep 22 17:54:04 <ShadowJK> "cognitive radio"
Sep 22 17:55:24 <inkbottle> DocScrutinizer: only since "+33699999999" is arriving, it is not recognized by the phone as one of the contacts
Sep 22 17:55:54 <DocScrutinizer> inkbottle: again, where is the problem now?
Sep 22 17:55:55 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-09-22 19:38:44] <inkbottle> If in your contacts you have an occurrence 06999... it is it that is matched
Sep 22 17:55:57 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-09-22 19:38:57] <inkbottle> so not matched
Sep 22 17:55:58 <DocScrutinizer> [
Sep 22 17:56:05 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-09-22 19:47:29] <lcuk> and shows "Mum"
Sep 22 17:56:07 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-09-22 19:47:39] <inkbottle> yes
Sep 22 17:56:27 <DocScrutinizer> .oO(???)
Sep 22 17:58:30 <inkbottle> DocScrutinizer: You have to tell people to put "+33699999999" instead of the usual "0699999999"; but then it's okay yes
Sep 22 17:58:56 <lcuk> <lcuk> so in your contacts, you have "Mum: 0699999999"
Sep 22 17:59:06 <inkbottle> So at least it is a workaround
Sep 22 17:59:17 <lcuk> <lcuk> and if your mum calls in on "+33699999999" it works as expected
Sep 22 17:59:17 <lcuk> <lcuk> and shows "Mum"
Sep 22 17:59:17 <lcuk> <inkbottle> yes
Sep 22 17:59:23 <inkbottle> lcuk: yes that's what every one does
Sep 22 17:59:26 <lcuk> inkbottle, ^^ that suggests
Sep 22 17:59:41 <satmd> the variant 069 is national, the variant +3369 is international
Sep 22 17:59:47 <lcuk> that putting the 06999.. number is ok
Sep 22 17:59:53 <satmd> and to add more fun, I see sip:0033 and sip:+33, too
Sep 22 17:59:55 <DocScrutinizer> satmd: we are aware of that
Sep 22 18:00:15 <inkbottle> lcuk: as satmd said
Sep 22 18:00:18 <DocScrutinizer> the sip: part is completely borked though
Sep 22 18:00:28 * satmd nods
Sep 22 18:01:02 <inkbottle> so we have to put a copy of this conversation in the bug report
Sep 22 18:01:04 <DocScrutinizer> inkbottle: satmd basically said nothing to support your abiguous point
Sep 22 18:01:37 <satmd> :(
Sep 22 18:01:38 <inkbottle> DocScrutinizer: I will not answer...
Sep 22 18:02:05 <DocScrutinizer> inkbottle: once you state it doesn't work fpor contacts like 0699999, then - as me *and* lcuk quoted you above - you say it works
Sep 22 18:02:16 <inkbottle> I'm off bye
Sep 22 18:02:31 <DocScrutinizer> pfft
Sep 22 18:03:13 <lcuk> there has to be some reason for it, ahh well
Sep 22 18:06:38 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: ok, confirmed, inbound +499112345678 doesn't match contact 09112345678
Sep 22 18:07:08 <DocScrutinizer> (PR1.2)
Sep 22 18:07:14 <nuovodna> hi, is it possible to run Symbian ^3 apps on maemo PR 1.2 ??
Sep 22 18:08:36 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: I'd bet there's a config option to tweak matching, somewhere in gconf
Sep 22 18:09:32 <ShadowJK> nuovodna, no, and not any other symbian apps either
Sep 22 18:09:51 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, add that specific info including example numbers to the bug
Sep 22 18:10:53 <DocScrutinizer> I guess inkscape will do
Sep 22 18:10:56 <nuovodna> ShadowJK, thanks
Sep 22 18:11:38 <satmd> DocScrutinizer: I didn't add anything to his point, but I stressed something QA failed at testing
Sep 22 18:12:06 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: really? surely there's an old-Symbian emulator by now?
Sep 22 18:12:36 <lcuk> it might ping someone who can help DocScrutinizer
Sep 22 18:12:36 <ShadowJK> I'd imagine there'd be greater chances to make a new symbian emulator
Sep 22 18:12:40 <ShadowJK> since the old one isn't open source
Sep 22 18:13:03 <ShadowJK> the new one is probably more closed than maemo despite being "open source" :)
Sep 22 18:13:31 <DocScrutinizer> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-May/005594.html
Sep 22 18:48:17 <TiagoTiago> hi
Sep 22 18:49:39 <TiagoTiago> i heard a dingding and there is a symbol in my status bar alternating between a mail envelope and an S with a orange sparkle, but i don't see any new msg anhywhere; any idea?
Sep 22 18:49:55 <DocScrutinizer51> lcuk: I'm more tempted to open a new ticket about why community can't fix #10304
Sep 22 18:50:03 <frals> [21:47:35] -bartol.freenode.net- Server Terminating. Received SIGTERM
Sep 22 18:50:05 <frals> :<
Sep 22 18:50:59 <kfx> has anyone seen flasher-3.5 output "usb_bulk_write: Input/output error" with "Write failed after 0 bytes"?
Sep 22 18:51:38 <TiagoTiago> hm, nvm, seems it was just a hiccup
Sep 22 18:52:23 <Stskeeps> kfx: reboot
Sep 22 18:52:37 <kfx> Stskeeps: I have, several times
Sep 22 18:52:49 <TiagoTiago> gotta go do some other stuff, cya
Sep 22 18:52:49 <kfx> including by removing the battery and waiting an hour
Sep 22 18:53:09 <mgedmin> kfx, I think I may have seen that when I accidentally used the wrong options, or passed the wrong filename
Sep 22 18:53:23 <kfx> hmm
Sep 22 18:53:27 <DocScrutinizer51> kfx: in this case it needs rebooting desktop PC though
Sep 22 18:53:37 <kfx> it's correctly recognizing the diablo image
Sep 22 18:53:50 <kfx> DocScrutinizer51: I've tried this on two machines
Sep 22 18:53:57 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm
Sep 22 18:53:58 <mgedmin> ah! yes, I was trying to write a n810's image onto a n900 or some other such mistake
Sep 22 18:54:07 <mgedmin> the flasher correctly refused, but didn't provide a clear error message
Sep 22 18:54:13 <kfx> both linux, though.  I wonder if I'd have better luck with the osx flasher
Sep 22 18:54:16 <DocScrutinizer51> bad cable? USB port starting to break?
Sep 22 18:54:34 <mgedmin> and I'm 95% sure the message I got was "write failed after 0 bytes"
Sep 22 18:54:50 <kfx> Found device RX-44, hardware revision 0808
Sep 22 18:54:53 <kfx> followed by
Sep 22 18:54:55 <Stskeeps> kfx: what fiasco image do you use?
Sep 22 18:54:57 <kfx> Version of 'sw-release': RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_MR0
Sep 22 18:55:10 <kfx> Stskeeps: I originally tried to flash your meego kernel
Sep 22 18:55:19 <Stskeeps> -k ?
Sep 22 18:55:25 <kfx> but now I'm just trying to but the nokia diablo image on
Sep 22 18:56:10 <kfx> Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/L6m5rExZ
Sep 22 18:57:11 <Stskeeps> N810, N800?
Sep 22 18:57:17 <kfx> N810
Sep 22 18:57:33 <Stskeeps> not sure sorry
Sep 22 18:57:55 <kfx> so it goes, I guess
Sep 22 18:57:58 <Stskeeps> kfx: how did you flash the meego kernel?
Sep 22 18:58:09 <kfx> Stskeeps: I never did
Sep 22 18:58:17 <kfx> oh you mean what command did I trie
Sep 22 18:58:20 <Stskeeps> yeah
Sep 22 18:58:20 <kfx> s/trie/try/;
Sep 22 18:58:43 <mgedmin> why does flasher-3.5 identify itself as "flasher v2.5.2"?
Sep 22 18:59:11 <mgedmin> nvm, mine does too
Sep 22 18:59:15 <DocScrutinizer51> nonsense
Sep 22 18:59:33 <kfx> flasher-3.5 -k vmlinuz-n810-meego-27July -l -b
Sep 22 18:59:40 <kfx> (I had renamed the file)
Sep 22 19:00:03 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer51, go for it then
Sep 22 19:00:17 <lcuk> but I would rather you put those specific bits of info into the original report
Sep 22 19:00:22 <lcuk> since that makes most sense
Sep 22 19:01:24 <DocScrutinizer51> lcuk: well, while I'm on bugtracker site anyway, I may do this
Sep 22 19:02:25 <tripzero> lcuk, seems like our meegotouch bug has gotten very little attention...
Sep 22 19:02:41 <tripzero> maybe it's in the wrong component
Sep 22 19:03:15 <kfx> now I'm afraid to try with the n900
Sep 22 19:04:36 <Stskeeps> kfx: that looks fully non-destructable
Sep 22 19:04:53 <Stskeeps> kfx: sure your battery just isnt low?
Sep 22 19:05:03 <kfx> Stskeeps: I thought I was!
Sep 22 19:05:11 <kfx> I'll leave it charging overnight when I leave work
Sep 22 19:05:22 <kfx> come back in the morning and maybe the hardware fairies will have fixed everything
Sep 22 19:12:46 <DocScrutinizer51> kfx: you're aware of the problem that proper charging depends on a booting system, and esp N8x0 can do nasty things to your battery if this prerequisite isn't met?
Sep 22 19:15:23 <DocScrutinizer51> kfx: afaik N8x0 charging is *completely* sw-controlled by a linux userland process
Sep 22 19:18:42 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer51: if discharging is nasty…
Sep 22 19:19:07 <DocScrutinizer51> discharging till dead probably is
Sep 22 19:20:20 <kfx> DocScrutinizer51: that's correct.
Sep 22 19:20:32 <DocScrutinizer51> never stopping t charge like mad would be even more nasty, but chances to encounter this due to failing boot are small
Sep 22 19:20:47 <kfx> the n810 as it sits has a working diablo install on it
Sep 22 19:20:48 <slonopotamus> luke-jr: sometimes i think you're just a troll... :)
Sep 22 19:21:02 <luke-jr> …
Sep 22 19:21:55 <DocScrutinizer51> kfx: aah, k
Sep 22 19:23:06 <RST38h> slono: But, he actually is =)
Sep 22 19:23:19 <DocScrutinizer51> XP
Sep 22 19:23:26 <Stskeeps> luke-jr's a troll occasionally but he does cool work.
Sep 22 19:23:36 <Stskeeps> which makes him an acceptable troll
Sep 22 19:23:36 <Stskeeps> :P
Sep 22 19:23:50 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps: for example? :P
Sep 22 19:24:13 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: which, the trolling part or doing cool work?
Sep 22 19:24:13 <Stskeeps> :P
Sep 22 19:24:15 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: NO U
Sep 22 19:24:19 <wmarone> I don't think he's a troll, since he actually believes what he spouts :)
Sep 22 19:24:35 <luke-jr> wmarone: it's truth!
Sep 22 19:30:16 <RST38h> After fifteen years of work on Internet Explorer, browser architect Chris Wilson is leaving Microsoft for Google
Sep 22 19:30:39 <slonopotamus> oh my
Sep 22 19:30:47 <slonopotamus> i wouldn't let him in :)
Sep 22 19:31:04 <Arkenoi> well, ie6 was not bad at all
Sep 22 19:31:47 <Arkenoi> actually it was the only one that could run on really outdated hardware among so-so "decent" browsers
Sep 22 19:31:51 <GAN900> Pff
Sep 22 19:32:26 <slonopotamus> yay! let the battle begin
Sep 22 19:32:33 <Shadikka> IE6 has so many sins that one virtue ain't gonna redeem it.
Sep 22 19:32:37 <Shadikka> Signed, all the web developers in the world.
Sep 22 19:32:37 <lcuk> tripzero, since I just had a bath, remind me
Sep 22 19:33:50 <RST38h> LYNX. I wish more "web developers""developed" for it
Sep 22 19:34:05 <RST38h> Btw, have they added JavaScript to LYNX already?
Sep 22 19:34:17 <slonopotamus> i doubt
Sep 22 19:34:34 <wmarone> Arkenoi: only because it was so unbelievably old and decrepit :)
Sep 22 19:35:53 <Arkenoi> wmarone, yes, but it was the only thing that could run on p5-75MHz and 32Mb RAM and still provide you reasonable browsing experience
Sep 22 19:36:17 <Arkenoi> opera was damn slow, ff out of the question completely
Sep 22 19:36:39 <SpeedEvil> mozilla 4 - IIRC - should be fine
Sep 22 19:36:52 <Arkenoi> nope
Sep 22 19:37:02 <RST38h> Why do you need web browsers at all? GOPHER was quite sufficient.
Sep 22 19:37:03 <Arkenoi> it was not, and it had no unicode
Sep 22 19:37:05 <SpeedEvil> Admittedly it's been a while.
Sep 22 19:37:07 <SpeedEvil> Ah.
Sep 22 19:37:13 <SpeedEvil> I don't care about unicode.
Sep 22 19:37:25 <RST38h> Unicode can burn in hell, indeed
Sep 22 19:37:32 <Arkenoi> i do, as i need cyrillic pages to be displayed properly
Sep 22 19:37:46 <Arkenoi> RST38h, well, it is lesser evil
Sep 22 19:38:00 <RST38h> Arkenoi: cp1251.
Sep 22 19:38:03 * RST38h hides now.
Sep 22 19:38:10 <jacekowski> childporn1251
Sep 22 19:39:16 <MohammadAG> lol
Sep 22 19:39:22 <MohammadAG> that's kinda fucked up :P
Sep 22 19:39:46 <kerio> unicode is fucking awesome, RST38h sucks
Sep 22 19:39:47 <slonopotamus> opera? slow? it was the only usable browser in late 90s (early 90s didn't have internets here yet :) )
Sep 22 19:40:59 <Otto_> Hi, any1 know how to umount the 200mb ext3 partition? I think my partition needs fixing ...
Sep 22 19:41:10 <kerio> Otto_: tough luck
Sep 22 19:41:21 <MohammadAG> can't recall a 200MBs ext3 partition
Sep 22 19:41:29 <Otto_> the aaa
Sep 22 19:41:30 <Otto_> um
Sep 22 19:41:35 <Arkenoi> nope, it was slow. i bet you never tried it on 32Mb RAM. also, forget about linux, win98 worked better for it.
Sep 22 19:41:35 <jacekowski> om
Sep 22 19:41:38 <jacekowski> nom nom om
Sep 22 19:41:38 <kerio> what's the aaa?
Sep 22 19:41:40 <Otto_> its /dev/mcc...p2
Sep 22 19:41:58 <Otto_> actually,  /dev/mmcblk0p2
Sep 22 19:42:16 <jacekowski> mmm
Sep 22 19:42:17 <jacekowski> that's 2G
Sep 22 19:42:20 <jacekowski> or 30G
Sep 22 19:42:21 <slonopotamus> :)
Sep 22 19:42:33 <slonopotamus> jacekowski: yeah, but he said it needs fixing
Sep 22 19:42:35 <Otto_> p1 is the massmemory .... yeah that might be the 2G partition
Sep 22 19:42:48 <slonopotamus> jacekowski: if it is 200M, it definitely needs it.
Sep 22 19:42:52 <jacekowski> flasb it
Sep 22 19:42:54 <kerio> heh
Sep 22 19:42:57 <jacekowski> flash it
Sep 22 19:43:08 <Otto_> I've done it too many times already
Sep 22 19:43:08 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 19:43:17 <Otto_> my /sys is dated as 1.Jan.1970 :D
Sep 22 19:43:17 <MohammadAG> eMMC
Sep 22 19:43:17 <jacekowski> then it get's complicated
Sep 22 19:43:25 <jacekowski> that's ok
Sep 22 19:43:40 <MohammadAG> if eMMC + FIASCO reflash don't fix it
Sep 22 19:43:42 <MohammadAG> it's a HW error
Sep 22 19:43:53 <slonopotamus> Otto_: what a good day that was.
Sep 22 19:43:55 <jacekowski> Otto_: that time is ok
Sep 22 19:44:00 <kfx> http://pastebin.com/c931X9GR  sigh
Sep 22 19:44:02 <Otto_> :))
Sep 22 19:44:03 <jacekowski> Otto_: and you can't do anything about it
Sep 22 19:44:04 <kfx> time to buy another n810 I think
Sep 22 19:44:08 <Otto_> ok thx
Sep 22 19:44:29 <Otto_> yeah sounds a bit like HW error since im getting random resets with different firmwares
Sep 22 19:45:11 <Otto_> the /var/log is empty always so I don't know how to debugit ... but the resets usually happens when I'mn using apt-get or the application manager
Sep 22 19:45:11 <jacekowski> what is a bootreason after that reset?
Sep 22 19:45:14 <BCMM> Re: Otto's problem: is it ok to fsck a partition after remounting it with magic sysrq?
Sep 22 19:45:28 <mgedmin> remounting read-only, you mean?
Sep 22 19:45:29 * wmarone wonders why MfE continues trying to check a deleted MfE account
Sep 22 19:45:52 <Otto_> I would liek to fsck.ext3 -p it but I don�t know how to unmount it safely
Sep 22 19:45:54 <BCMM> because while i don't think you can trigger it with teh KB, i notice that maemo does retain /proc/sysrq-trigger
Sep 22 19:46:03 <jacekowski> ehhhh
Sep 22 19:46:04 <jacekowski> don't
Sep 22 19:46:12 <jacekowski> that date is on rootfs
Sep 22 19:46:15 <jacekowski> not on 2G partition
Sep 22 19:46:25 <jacekowski> and you can't fsck mounted fs
Sep 22 19:46:34 <Otto_> well actually the problem is not the date
Sep 22 19:46:37 <Otto_> it's fine
Sep 22 19:46:43 <jacekowski> so what is the problem?
Sep 22 19:46:49 <BCMM> jacekowski: even if they're mounted read-only?
Sep 22 19:46:55 <jacekowski> BCMM: yep
Sep 22 19:47:00 <Otto_> Otto_> yeah sounds a bit like HW error since im getting random resets with different firmwares
Sep 22 19:47:16 <jacekowski> Otto_: what is a boot reason
Sep 22 19:47:21 <Otto_> how do I check that
Sep 22 19:47:26 <jacekowski> cat /proc/bootreason
Sep 22 19:47:29 <Otto_> ah
Sep 22 19:47:31 <jacekowski> after that random reset
Sep 22 19:47:54 <BCMM> jacekowski: don't most distros check the root filesystem on bootup?
Sep 22 19:47:58 <jacekowski> and check dsme file that stores stuff
Sep 22 19:48:05 <jacekowski> BCMM: not anymore
Sep 22 19:48:10 <BCMM> (and immediately reboot if they have to fix it)
Sep 22 19:48:17 <BCMM> jacekowski: why's that?
Sep 22 19:48:24 <jacekowski> journaling
Sep 22 19:48:30 <slonopotamus> :/
Sep 22 19:48:43 <jacekowski> kernel replays journal on mount
Sep 22 19:48:46 <Otto_> Nokia-N900:~# cat /proc/bootreason
Sep 22 19:48:46 <Otto_>  -> sw_rst
Sep 22 19:48:54 <Otto_> thank gof
Sep 22 19:48:55 <Otto_> god
Sep 22 19:48:56 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 19:49:10 <slonopotamus> jacekowski: ext4 journals data too, not only metadata?
Sep 22 19:49:24 <jacekowski> depends on configuration
Sep 22 19:49:34 <jacekowski> you can setup ext3 to do full journaling
Sep 22 19:49:53 <slonopotamus> never heard anyone did that
Sep 22 19:49:57 <BCMM> jacekowski: also, my gentoo box checks every 28 days or 28 mounts, iirc
Sep 22 19:49:57 <BCMM> i think ubuntu does the same
Sep 22 19:50:14 <BCMM> journaling is why it doesn't end up fscking the partition every time it finds it wasn't unmounted cleanly
Sep 22 19:50:24 <BCMM> most distro still check for consistancy every now and then
Sep 22 19:50:24 <Otto_> jacekowski : dsme file : lots of IO errors on dev mmcblk0, sector xxxxx ... also Read-error on swap-device
Sep 22 19:50:28 <BCMM> ^distros
Sep 22 19:51:21 <Stskeeps> Otto_: did you overclock?
Sep 22 19:51:21 <Stskeeps> :P
Sep 22 19:51:29 <Otto_> I have fresh pr.12
Sep 22 19:51:30 <Otto_> :P
Sep 22 19:51:41 <jacekowski> BCMM: only on ext3
Sep 22 19:51:49 <Otto_> but I tried it sometime ago but it was just at @900mhz and only for a several minutes
Sep 22 19:51:55 <BCMM> jacekowski: to which bit?
Sep 22 19:52:04 <jacekowski> BCMM: that checking every 28 mounts
Sep 22 19:52:31 <jacekowski> and full journaling on any FS is bad idea
Sep 22 19:52:48 <jacekowski> because data has to be written twice
Sep 22 19:53:18 <jacekowski> and journaling isn't to stop fscking partition
Sep 22 19:53:26 <jacekowski> that's very hard to do
Sep 22 19:53:34 <jacekowski> it's to stop fscking data
Sep 22 19:55:11 <Otto_> jacekowski do you think that lots of IO errors in mmcblk0 indicates that my flash is rubbish?
Sep 22 19:56:16 <jacekowski> or your cpu
Sep 22 19:56:47 <Stskeeps> Otto_: i'd pretty much send it back for RMA
Sep 22 19:57:13 <jacekowski> flash it
Sep 22 19:57:32 <Otto_> this is a company phone, maybe I just toss it and request for a new one but I would need enoguh of evidence that it is really broken
Sep 22 19:57:44 <Stskeeps> Otto_: I/O error on emmc is usually bad
Sep 22 19:57:54 <Otto_> yeah
Sep 22 19:58:15 <Otto_> and this wouldnt be the first n900 which has a bad flash
Sep 22 19:58:48 <Otto_> I have flashed this phone so many times that I don't think it's a solution anymore
Sep 22 20:00:47 <kerio> Ye find yerself in yon N900. Ye see a FLASH. Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.
Sep 22 20:01:27 <Otto_> you don't happen to know if there is (or if it is even poosible) programs that would scan the flash, for example, for reading errors
Sep 22 20:03:09 <GAN900> Warranty?
Sep 22 20:04:36 <kerio> that's definetely a program that will fix your flash ;)
Sep 22 20:05:01 <Otto_> no these company phones does not come with such a nice program ;)
Sep 22 20:05:39 <Otto_> yeah I think there is no more to do
Sep 22 20:05:44 <jacekowski> badblock could do it
Sep 22 20:05:46 <Otto_> thanks guys for the help
Sep 22 20:05:51 <Otto_> badlock?
Sep 22 20:05:53 <Otto_> block
Sep 22 20:05:54 <Otto_> :P
Sep 22 20:05:55 <jacekowski> badblocks
Sep 22 20:06:02 <jacekowski> with S
Sep 22 20:06:29 <mece> OMG I can't believe n900 beat the pre. Feels good to be in the most rabid community :D
Sep 22 20:08:12 <Otto_> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50506
Sep 22 20:08:23 <Otto_> there's the same error message mentioned in posts that mine has too
Sep 22 20:08:38 <Otto_> verdict: internal memory broken
Sep 22 20:14:02 <norayr> hey, people
Sep 22 20:14:26 <norayr> I have added four keyboard layouts to the ukeyboard project yesterday.
Sep 22 20:14:48 <norayr> It can (and will) be used in maemo5 as well, right?
Sep 22 20:16:11 <Otto_> jacekowski: badblocks program needs partition to be unmounted so I'm not able to run it on 2G drive
Sep 22 20:17:05 <DocScrutinizer> badblocks won't help on a flash stotage anyway, aiui
Sep 22 20:17:40 <DocScrutinizer> physical blocks of a flash chip aren't what the driver thinks they are
Sep 22 20:17:42 <norayr> and no smartctl to see the count of relocated sectors, as flash does not relocate them afaik
Sep 22 20:18:17 <DocScrutinizer> actually the controller should relocate automatically and all the time
Sep 22 20:18:44 <MohammadAG> is there a way to force a connection to a BT device w/o a pairkey?
Sep 22 20:18:51 <DocScrutinizer> not sectors though, not even logical blocks, but phyical blocks
Sep 22 20:19:00 <MohammadAG> my old BT Microsoft mouse doesn't have a key, fremantle doesn't allow key-less pairs
Sep 22 20:19:16 <RST38h> "Michael Jackson Themed MMO In the Works"
Sep 22 20:19:32 <RST38h> "a massive social gaming experience" with "collaborative in-game activities,"
Sep 22 20:19:42 <DocScrutinizer> fail :-P
Sep 22 20:19:50 <RST38h> depends
Sep 22 20:19:58 <Otto_> DocScrutinizer what you say goes a little over my head but basically if the badblocks reports that it thinks that there are something gone wrong, could it be a indicaiton of a broken flash?
Sep 22 20:20:14 <lcuk> RST38h, depending on which world it could be cool
Sep 22 20:20:21 <DocScrutinizer> probably yes
Sep 22 20:20:27 <lcuk> having a Thriller area with zombies etc
Sep 22 20:20:28 <lcuk> :D
Sep 22 20:20:29 <RST38h> lcuk: did I say "cool"?
Sep 22 20:20:37 <lcuk> i did
Sep 22 20:20:54 <RST38h> lcuk: I have been thinking more in terms of having a Neverland area...
Sep 22 20:20:57 <Otto_> DocScrutinizer fair enough. I'm just gatherin as much as evidence for a good "business reason" for a new phone :)
Sep 22 20:21:34 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail
Sep 22 20:21:39 <lcuk> RST38h, i hadnt
Sep 22 20:22:12 * lcuk is a half life veteran
Sep 22 20:22:42 <Otto_> 0.5% in five minutes... this is gonna take the whole night... better look for a charger
Sep 22 20:23:20 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: badblocks is definitely doing no good to your flash
Sep 22 20:23:35 <luke-jr> lol
Sep 22 20:24:07 <Otto_> it's reading the content of the block, saving it to temporary location and re-wrtiting the block with the same data?
Sep 22 20:24:41 <Otto_> it's in in-destructibe mode
Sep 22 20:24:47 <luke-jr> Otto_: fail
Sep 22 20:25:01 <Otto_> please be more accurate
Sep 22 20:25:02 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 20:25:05 <luke-jr> Otto_: badblocks won't do anything other than possibly push it over the edge if it's close
Sep 22 20:26:20 <Otto_> I'm sorry maybe I'm a little retard or something but what do you mean by "push it over the edge"?
Sep 22 20:26:45 <luke-jr> Otto_: I mean destroy it.
Sep 22 20:27:08 <Otto_> how come accessing and writing to flash memory would destroy it?
Sep 22 20:27:10 <luke-jr> probably won't unless it's really on the edge, but in either case, it won't give you any useful info
Sep 22 20:27:25 <luke-jr> because writing to flash is wear and wear eventually destroys
Sep 22 20:27:59 <Otto_> eventually yes, but in one run?
Sep 22 20:28:18 <wmarone> which device is this?
Sep 22 20:28:22 <Otto_> n900
Sep 22 20:28:28 <wmarone> well yes, which NAND device
Sep 22 20:28:42 <luke-jr> Otto_: like I said, only if it's on the edge
Sep 22 20:28:43 <mgedmin> there's only one NAND device on the n900; the other one is an eMMC
Sep 22 20:28:44 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: a physical block is some 256k on flash, badblocks does a r/w for each 4k logical block inside such a phy block
Sep 22 20:28:56 <mgedmin> I don't think you can run badblocks on the NAND device
Sep 22 20:29:04 <wmarone> mgedmin: they're both NAND, one's onenand the other is eMMC :P
Sep 22 20:29:06 <luke-jr> mgedmin: don't tempt him
Sep 22 20:29:08 <wmarone> anyway
Sep 22 20:29:40 <Otto_> *processing data*
Sep 22 20:29:54 <DocScrutinizer> so each block gets rewritten at least 64 times
Sep 22 20:30:04 <Otto_> yes!
Sep 22 20:30:20 <Otto_> so you think that flash won't last more than 64 rewrties?
Sep 22 20:30:27 <Otto_> writes
Sep 22 20:30:32 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: 128 since it's non-destructive writetest
Sep 22 20:30:33 <mgedmin> DocScrutinizer, I'd expect the device to start writing those 4k blocks into a new empty flash block, plus update the mapping table
Sep 22 20:30:43 <DocScrutinizer> and till - due the the controller hiding away phy block swapping for wear leveling - badblocks doesn't give you *any* useful result
Sep 22 20:30:50 <luke-jr> mgedmin: there is no mapping table afaik
Sep 22 20:31:01 <DocScrutinizer> s/til/still
Sep 22 20:31:02 <mgedmin> writing the whole 128k every time you modify 4k inside it would be insane
Sep 22 20:31:12 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: ack
Sep 22 20:31:18 <DocScrutinizer> err luke-jr
Sep 22 20:31:52 <mgedmin> ok, I actually have no idea how the eMMC emulates a block device on top of NAND
Sep 22 20:33:09 <RST38h> mgedmin: but you can experiment with it
Sep 22 20:33:27 <mgedmin> sure, send me 10 n900's and I'll experiment
Sep 22 20:33:27 <RST38h> mgedmin: start writing a file, block by block. Measure time to write each block.
Sep 22 20:33:40 <mgedmin> "how many 4k writes to make the eMMC unusable"
Sep 22 20:33:49 <RST38h> mgedmin: if every fourth block takes much more time to write, there is an internal buffer
Sep 22 20:33:58 <RST38h> mgedmin: no, that is now what I suggest testing
Sep 22 20:34:07 <Otto_> :))
Sep 22 20:34:11 <Otto_> this is getting funny
Sep 22 20:34:27 <RST38h> you do not want to wear out the eMMC, just find out how it caches block writes
Sep 22 20:34:28 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: actually the controller is supposed to kick out bad phy blocks in an opaque manner, so if any IO-errors are occurring it's a strong indication the NAND is defect. Though there also might be complete messup of logical structures, which *maybe* could be fixed by a reflash, so I suggest flashing eMMC image (VANILLA)
Sep 22 20:34:54 <Otto_> ah, okay
Sep 22 20:35:13 <Otto_> so the controller would handle the badblocks "automatically" ?
Sep 22 20:35:45 <Otto_> so every block badblocks program write are usable
Sep 22 20:35:55 <Otto_> so it's waste of time running it
Sep 22 20:36:10 <norayr> If controller will remap "bad" blocks
Sep 22 20:36:15 <Otto_> yeah
Sep 22 20:36:24 <norayr> then you may do dd if=/dev/zero of=yourdevice
Sep 22 20:36:41 <norayr> because writing to the bad sector will force controller to remap "sectors"
Sep 22 20:36:46 <Otto_> every nand flash bad blocks when they are shipped so they must be remapped
Sep 22 20:36:49 <DocScrutinizer> norayr: or that, even better than reflash
Sep 22 20:37:09 <Otto_> genious!
Sep 22 20:37:35 <norayr> :)
Sep 22 20:37:39 <Otto_> so what exactly dd does, writes all the data ?
Sep 22 20:37:44 <Otto_> sorry
Sep 22 20:37:48 <norayr> disk dump
Sep 22 20:37:49 <ioan> hi all. where are the app icons kept?
Sep 22 20:37:54 <satmd> it will overwrite with 0
Sep 22 20:37:59 <norayr> which writes from input file to output file
Sep 22 20:38:04 <Otto_> so I SHOULD backup
Sep 22 20:38:05 <Otto_> first
Sep 22 20:38:06 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 20:38:11 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Sep 22 20:38:11 <satmd> yes.
Sep 22 20:38:13 <norayr> if you give /dev/zero as an input file, it will read zeros
Sep 22 20:38:22 <norayr> and write to the desired destination
Sep 22 20:38:24 <Otto_> but
Sep 22 20:38:29 <norayr> unless it fill whole drive with zeros
Sep 22 20:38:38 <tripzero> lcuk, the bug where meegotouch apps don't build in maemo
Sep 22 20:38:55 <ioan> any idea where are the app icons kept?
Sep 22 20:38:55 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: you'll want to umount the partition in question
Sep 22 20:39:05 <Otto_> yeah but thats the problem
Sep 22 20:39:10 <Otto_> how do I umount the 2G partitinoi
Sep 22 20:39:16 <tripzero> ioan, /usr/share/applications/hildon/
Sep 22 20:39:18 <tripzero> iirc
Sep 22 20:39:22 <norayr> just umount /dev/mmc1 or something
Sep 22 20:39:28 <Otto_> device busy
Sep 22 20:39:32 <ioan> tripzero: thanks
Sep 22 20:39:40 <Otto_> sine /home and /opt are located on the 2G drive
Sep 22 20:40:10 <norayr> hm. on n810/diablo I do it easily. may be it is busy because there are open files from that partition?
Sep 22 20:40:12 <DocScrutinizer> umount -f
Sep 22 20:40:12 <Otto_> and /home/user/MyDocs are the rest what are left after the rootfs and the storage for the programs, the 2G drive
Sep 22 20:40:19 <norayr> or because you cd-d there
Sep 22 20:40:44 <Otto_> iforcing umount won't help
Sep 22 20:40:47 <Otto_> hmm
Sep 22 20:40:49 <norayr> close all the programs, and run terminal again, become root, and do umount
Sep 22 20:41:01 <norayr> you even may reboot the device
Sep 22 20:41:26 <DocScrutinizer> it's tricky, and maybe not even feasible
Sep 22 20:41:26 <Otto_> I run lsof | and grepped all programs which were running from the 2G partition and xarged then to killall
Sep 22 20:41:27 <norayr> in order to make sure nothing uses it
Sep 22 20:41:34 <norayr> nice :)
Sep 22 20:41:35 <Otto_> tried to ujmount afterward
Sep 22 20:41:39 <Otto_> didn't work
Sep 22 20:41:39 <norayr> aha
Sep 22 20:41:49 <Otto_> sorry for the typos
Sep 22 20:41:50 <norayr> and what lsof says?
Sep 22 20:41:51 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 20:42:05 <Otto_> there were couple of programs using the partition
Sep 22 20:42:14 <DocScrutinizer> a lot of processes will respawn when killed
Sep 22 20:42:16 <norayr> even after the kill?
Sep 22 20:42:28 <norayr> try to reboot it, srsly
Sep 22 20:42:35 <DocScrutinizer> won't help
Sep 22 20:42:41 <Otto_> i've rebooted many times
Sep 22 20:42:45 <norayr> hmmm
Sep 22 20:42:46 <norayr> ok
Sep 22 20:42:59 <norayr> you have /home staff there?
Sep 22 20:43:14 <Otto_> sorry ? :)
Sep 22 20:43:21 <DocScrutinizer> camer-ui I guess is one of those respawning processes that have a filehandle to /home
Sep 22 20:43:34 <DocScrutinizer> a lot of others have handles to /opt
Sep 22 20:43:40 <Otto_> yeah
Sep 22 20:43:43 <Otto_> and hildon
Sep 22 20:43:44 <Otto_> etc
Sep 22 20:43:50 <norayr> i wonder why some software uses it. if you keep /home staff on mmc,
Sep 22 20:43:51 <norayr> then
Sep 22 20:43:54 <norayr> what I would do
Sep 22 20:44:04 <norayr> just a minute
Sep 22 20:44:08 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 20:44:22 <DocScrutinizer> sshd maybe will survive a umount -f
Sep 22 20:44:22 <norayr> you have a symlink pointong from your /home/MyDocs or something to mmc, right?
Sep 22 20:44:36 <Otto_> home/user/MyDocs
Sep 22 20:44:40 <norayr> if you sshd as root, yes
Sep 22 20:44:47 <Otto_> yeeah
Sep 22 20:45:02 <norayr> Do you have another, external card as well?
Sep 22 20:45:08 <Otto_> I left it to work :(
Sep 22 20:45:30 <norayr> I would copy MyDocs to the external card, and edit symlink, or remove, and make a new symlink pointing to the new destination
Sep 22 20:45:39 <norayr> this way reboot will definitely work
Sep 22 20:45:44 <norayr> hmmm
Sep 22 20:46:20 <DocScrutinizer> norayr: the problem isn't MyDocs, the problem is the 2GB /home partition, which happens to have /home/opt as well
Sep 22 20:46:23 <Otto_> the MyDocs
Sep 22 20:46:24 <norayr> ok, then just copy all the info, and then replace the symlink  MyDocs pointong to /media/mmcX/MyDocs with the folder MyDocs
Sep 22 20:46:25 <Otto_> yeah..
Sep 22 20:46:53 <norayr> Yes, I also keep /opt on an mmc
Sep 22 20:46:56 <Otto_> rootfs                  227.9M    132.2M     91.5M  59% /
Sep 22 20:46:57 <norayr> on mmc
Sep 22 20:46:59 <Otto_> /dev/mmcblk0p2            2.0G    276.5M      1.6G  14% /home
Sep 22 20:46:59 <Otto_> /home/opt                 2.0G    276.5M      1.6G  14% /opt
Sep 22 20:47:07 <norayr> :)
Sep 22 20:47:07 <DocScrutinizer> norayr: see: --->
Sep 22 20:47:11 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
Sep 22 20:47:11 <infobot> somebody said optification was a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3
Sep 22 20:47:34 <DocScrutinizer> norayr: it's absolutely nontrivial
Sep 22 20:47:35 <norayr> ok, but I guess system will work fine without opt
Sep 22 20:47:45 <DocScrutinizer> should, yes
Sep 22 20:48:03 <DocScrutinizer> at least in runlevel S
Sep 22 20:48:10 <norayr> Then just replace /opt and MyDoc symlinks with a folders with the same name
Sep 22 20:48:14 <norayr> names
Sep 22 20:48:24 <DocScrutinizer> but I fear that's exactly the point, maemo is fubar here
Sep 22 20:48:47 <Otto_> "duct tape workaround"
Sep 22 20:48:49 <Otto_> :DD
Sep 22 20:49:50 <norayr> I did it many times. Transferred /home an /opt from external mmc to internal, formatted external, installed meego on it, then, dissatisfied with results, moved everything back to the external
Sep 22 20:50:12 <norayr> I mean, it's not dangerous.
Sep 22 20:50:16 <norayr> First, backup your data
Sep 22 20:50:21 <Otto_> instead of 2G  rootfs user will not lose programs settings as they are stored in the different partition than the partition which is flashed...
Sep 22 20:50:25 <norayr> I would do it with scp
Sep 22 20:50:35 <Otto_> im on sftp already
Sep 22 20:51:05 <norayr> And then you have nothing to loose, umount it, dd zeros on it, move everything back
Sep 22 20:51:22 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: maybe just do the dd, and forget about ther completely fsckdup fs this will cause. Just remove battery after dd is done, then reflash eMMC
Sep 22 20:51:22 <Otto_> so move /home and /opt to external card, symlink then there and after boot the 2G partition should be unmountable
Sep 22 20:51:26 <DocScrutinizer> and rootfs
Sep 22 20:51:50 <norayr> genau!
Sep 22 20:52:27 <Otto_> that's shoudl do it but I will lose every settings
Sep 22 20:52:39 <Otto_> but maybe thats fair enough if it fixes my n900
Sep 22 20:52:53 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: do a backup using backup app
Sep 22 20:53:01 <norayr> If you don't reflash, you don't loose settings
Sep 22 20:53:08 <norayr> Though I would even reflash it
Sep 22 20:53:08 <DocScrutinizer> it does an amazingly good job on restoring settings
Sep 22 20:53:16 <Otto_> I have noticed that too
Sep 22 20:53:22 <norayr> Actually, even if you reflash
Sep 22 20:53:31 <Otto_> thanks to apt-get it also very convinient backup/restore
Sep 22 20:53:34 <norayr> Settings backed up with home
Sep 22 20:53:37 <norayr> yep
Sep 22 20:54:09 <Otto_> when I flash rootfs will be overwritten, dd will over wrtitten the 2G drive and emmc will overwrite the rest
Sep 22 20:54:16 <DocScrutinizer> I'd just copy ~user/* somewhere outside eMMC
Sep 22 20:54:19 <Otto_> only backup is in external storage
Sep 22 20:54:41 <Otto_> emmc = emmc flashing
Sep 22 20:55:11 <Otto_> but
Sep 22 20:55:12 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: actually you should start 2 dd concurrently. One to the /home device and one to the MyDocs device
Sep 22 20:55:48 <Otto_> the emmc flash can be erased with ERASE fiasco file?
Sep 22 20:55:50 <DocScrutinizer> maybe even do a swapoff and start a third dd to swap partition
Sep 22 20:56:27 <Otto_> how about repartioning the whole flash?
Sep 22 20:56:34 <Otto_> would it be simplier?
Sep 22 20:56:41 <DocScrutinizer> can be done during flashing
Sep 22 20:56:43 <Otto_> there are good documentation in the internet
Sep 22 20:56:51 <norayr> you need to write to the "bad" sectors
Sep 22 20:57:06 <DocScrutinizer> see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Sep 22 20:57:10 <DocScrutinizer> first §
Sep 22 20:57:45 <Otto_> wait my atom is still loading
Sep 22 20:57:45 <DocScrutinizer> or simply do of=mmcblk0
Sep 22 20:57:45 <Otto_> :D
Sep 22 20:57:46 <norayr> I have recovered my 500gb hdd with reiserfs that way recently
Sep 22 20:58:21 <DocScrutinizer> ...this way you'll 'flat-out' the whole eMMC at once
Sep 22 20:58:27 <Otto_> yes
Sep 22 20:58:35 <Otto_> thats the point of this discussion
Sep 22 20:58:37 <norayr> exactly :)
Sep 22 20:58:39 <Otto_> but
Sep 22 20:58:45 <Otto_> they are still mounted
Sep 22 20:58:50 <Otto_> ah
Sep 22 20:58:53 <norayr> And not backed up
Sep 22 20:59:08 <Otto_> backup, force dd, re-flash whole thng
Sep 22 20:59:13 <Otto_> that's should do it
Sep 22 20:59:15 <DocScrutinizer> dd won't care when writing to physical device
Sep 22 20:59:21 <Otto_> yeah
Sep 22 20:59:30 <norayr> :)
Sep 22 20:59:34 <Otto_> but what if the hw problem is in the controller itself? :)
Sep 22 20:59:38 <DocScrutinizer> /dev/mmcblk0 doesn't know bout mounts
Sep 22 20:59:46 <norayr> it's not that likely
Sep 22 21:00:04 <DocScrutinizer> nor bout partitions
Sep 22 21:00:34 <Otto_> I'm emailing my self to work... which was the dd line ?
Sep 22 21:00:54 <norayr> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblkX
Sep 22 21:00:58 <Otto_> 0
Sep 22 21:01:01 <norayr> where X is te
Sep 22 21:01:04 <norayr> probably, yes
Sep 22 21:01:05 <Otto_> its 0
Sep 22 21:01:23 <norayr> actually, yes, mount shows it
Sep 22 21:01:35 <norayr> grep it from mount
Sep 22 21:01:40 <norayr> :)
Sep 22 21:02:50 * DocScrutinizer shudders on thinking about what's going to happen on a system when you do this flat-out-zero of swap and /home and /usr and /opt
Sep 22 21:03:05 <Otto_> :))
Sep 22 21:03:21 <DocScrutinizer> couldn't you stream syslog live here ? :-P
Sep 22 21:03:45 <Otto_> :P
Sep 22 21:03:52 <Otto_> If I wipe out entire flash
Sep 22 21:04:04 <DocScrutinizer> one thing's for sure - you'll have to reflash after that :-P
Sep 22 21:04:10 <MohammadAG> just don't touch /dev/mtd1 and you'll be fine
Sep 22 21:04:16 <Otto_> am I able to boot to flas mode by pressing u and attaching the usb cable?
Sep 22 21:04:26 <MohammadAG> just don't touch /dev/mtd1 and you'll be fine
Sep 22 21:04:58 <DocScrutinizer> yes, you just MUST NOT touch the rootfs partitons or any other mtd
Sep 22 21:05:15 * MohammadAG touched rootfs
Sep 22 21:05:29 * DocScrutinizer pokes MohammadAG
Sep 22 21:05:34 <MohammadAG> had to dd it with /dev/zero, then use mtd-utils to wipe it
Sep 22 21:06:12 <Otto_> isn't rootfs on the  /dev/mmcblk0
Sep 22 21:06:13 <Otto_> ??
Sep 22 21:06:17 <MohammadAG> no
Sep 22 21:06:18 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Sep 22 21:06:24 <Otto_> there are 3 partitions
Sep 22 21:06:30 <DocScrutinizer> it's on the internal 256MB NAND
Sep 22 21:06:42 <Otto_> p1, p2 and p3... p1 is the emmc and p2 is the 2G drive
Sep 22 21:06:47 <Otto_> ah
Sep 22 21:06:51 <DocScrutinizer> p3 is swap
Sep 22 21:07:05 <Otto_> ok
Sep 22 21:07:07 <DocScrutinizer> p1 is MyDocs
Sep 22 21:07:13 <DocScrutinizer> or other way round
Sep 22 21:07:17 <Otto_> mtd1 d2 d3 d4 d5
Sep 22 21:07:22 <Otto_> exists in my /dev
Sep 22 21:07:28 <DocScrutinizer> DO NOT touch these
Sep 22 21:07:28 <Otto_> sorry
Sep 22 21:07:29 <Otto_> 0-5
Sep 22 21:07:29 <DocScrutinizer> !!
Sep 22 21:07:36 <Otto_> rm -rf ..
Sep 22 21:07:37 <Otto_> :DD
Sep 22 21:07:38 <kerio> would it be ok to have a swap partition on a sd?
Sep 22 21:07:43 <MohammadAG> rm -rf won't do shit
Sep 22 21:07:45 <kerio> not talking about the n900 specifically
Sep 22 21:07:52 <Otto_> dd to mtd..
Sep 22 21:07:59 <MohammadAG> that will do awesome shit
Sep 22 21:08:03 <Otto_> :))
Sep 22 21:08:06 <MohammadAG> unfixable shit
Sep 22 21:08:11 <kerio> why unfixable?
Sep 22 21:08:19 <kerio> bring it to nokia!
Sep 22 21:08:26 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Sep 22 21:08:40 <Otto_> I have buddy at the maemo kernel team maybe he could do something
Sep 22 21:08:41 <DocScrutinizer> hose NOLO, meet NOkia
Sep 22 21:08:57 <kerio> hose NOLO, make JTAG
Sep 22 21:09:02 <DocScrutinizer> actually jacekowski claims even that is recoverable
Sep 22 21:09:12 <DocScrutinizer> via USB
Sep 22 21:09:15 <DocScrutinizer> on N900
Sep 22 21:09:15 <kerio> there's a direct serial port below the battery, right?
Sep 22 21:09:30 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: yup
Sep 22 21:09:46 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: the sheevaplug is similar to the n900, it has a bootloader in ROM that chainloads uboot on the internal nand
Sep 22 21:09:46 <jacekowski> Otto_: badblocks can run on live disk
Sep 22 21:09:52 <jacekowski> Otto_: in read only mode
Sep 22 21:10:03 <kerio> you can hose the internal nand as much as you want
Sep 22 21:10:12 <DocScrutinizer> but according to jacekowski the OMAP3430 has a hw-rom bootloader that can coldflash NOLO from USB
Sep 22 21:10:13 <kerio> but of course, you better have a jtag board handy to fix it
Sep 22 21:10:30 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: even just running it would be ok
Sep 22 21:10:35 <kerio> gets you a booted system
Sep 22 21:10:46 <kerio> would it be feasible to have a system that runs entirely from the eMMC?
Sep 22 21:10:58 <DocScrutinizer> no
Sep 22 21:11:03 <kerio> too slow?
Sep 22 21:11:10 <DocScrutinizer> at least first stage BL needs to be on NAND
Sep 22 21:11:28 <kerio> well, of course
Sep 22 21:11:58 <Otto_> which flash file determines the partitions or can any flashing have an effect on partition sizes?
Sep 22 21:12:06 <kerio> bootloader and a sysrescue system on nand, meego(?) on eMMC
Sep 22 21:12:20 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: see link I pasted above
Sep 22 21:12:46 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: a tiny rescue system on NAND could just export the eMMC as a mass storage device through usb
Sep 22 21:12:53 <DocScrutinizer> paritioning of eMMC is plain text in VANILLA img file
Sep 22 21:13:07 <MohammadAG> seding it works
Sep 22 21:13:51 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: well, omap can boot from other devices
Sep 22 21:13:58 <jacekowski> so it would be possible
Sep 22 21:14:02 <jacekowski> just not on n900
Sep 22 21:14:08 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: only when right pins are grounded?
Sep 22 21:15:09 <jacekowski> well, hmm
Sep 22 21:15:18 <jacekowski> thing is that it only changes boot sequence
Sep 22 21:15:25 <jacekowski> so phone would boot from first working device
Sep 22 21:15:29 <jacekowski> so hmm, it may work
Sep 22 21:15:42 <DocScrutinizer> that'd be really nice :-)
Sep 22 21:16:05 <DocScrutinizer> gotta be a smart sucker of rom BL
Sep 22 21:16:41 <jacekowski> aparently rom BL can load 2nd stage BL or even OS directly
Sep 22 21:16:42 <DocScrutinizer> also any first stage firmwre BL (aka NOLO) needs signature, right?
Sep 22 21:16:56 <jacekowski> well, it's called signature
Sep 22 21:16:58 <DocScrutinizer> s/first/second/
Sep 22 21:16:58 <infobot> DocScrutinizer meant: also any second stage firmwre BL (aka NOLO) needs signature, right?
Sep 22 21:17:12 <jacekowski> only 1st stage needs signature
Sep 22 21:17:26 <jacekowski> but that deppends on processor
Sep 22 21:17:29 <jacekowski> if it's HS or not
Sep 22 21:17:38 <jacekowski> if it's HS then it has to be full true signature
Sep 22 21:17:51 <jacekowski> if it's not then it can be just basic info with configuration and size and stuff
Sep 22 21:17:53 <DocScrutinizer> grr, what now? is rom BL 1st stage, or is NOLO 1st the first stage BL? :-P
Sep 22 21:18:19 <norayr> people of #maemo, see ya later
Sep 22 21:18:27 <Otto_> If Ido the dd to whole flash, I should flash rootfs, vanilla and Euro fiasco files, correct? in which order?
Sep 22 21:18:28 <DocScrutinizer> cya
Sep 22 21:18:30 <Otto_> cya!
Sep 22 21:18:43 <DocScrutinizer> there's no rootfs
Sep 22 21:18:52 <Otto_> the core file
Sep 22 21:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> or, rootfs==fiasco
Sep 22 21:18:54 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: ther is 1st stage nolo and 2nd stage nolo
Sep 22 21:18:55 <norayr> good night to all who live in corresponding locations :)
Sep 22 21:18:59 <norayr> etc
Sep 22 21:19:05 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: 1st stage nolo == x-loader
Sep 22 21:19:05 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 21:19:24 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: k k
Sep 22 21:19:40 <jacekowski> so it goes rom -> 1st stage -> 2nd stage
Sep 22 21:19:42 <jacekowski> but
Sep 22 21:19:46 <DocScrutinizer> so 1st stage NOLO == x-loader == 2nd stage BL
Sep 22 21:19:53 <jacekowski> no
Sep 22 21:20:04 <jacekowski> x-loader != 2nd stage
Sep 22 21:20:17 <DocScrutinizer> as quite obviously from a tech pov rom is first stage
Sep 22 21:20:59 <jacekowski> well, not in ti terminology
Sep 22 21:21:08 <jacekowski> it's more like 0 stage
Sep 22 21:21:10 <DocScrutinizer> but I'm fine with whatever nomenclature we agree upon
Sep 22 21:21:42 <DocScrutinizer> or let's agree on rom == 0, x-loder == 1, NOLO == 2
Sep 22 21:21:42 <jacekowski> the reason why there is 1st stage bootloader and then 2snd stage is because rom can only load 64k image
Sep 22 21:21:59 <jacekowski> because that's size of memory on processor itself
Sep 22 21:22:07 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Sep 22 21:22:08 <jacekowski> and rom doesn't initialise external memory
Sep 22 21:22:12 <jacekowski> but
Sep 22 21:22:16 <DocScrutinizer> fair enough
Sep 22 21:22:37 <jacekowski> if you have proper signature with configuration in it
Sep 22 21:22:48 <jacekowski> then rom can write that configuration and initialise memory
Sep 22 21:22:53 <jacekowski> and load 2nd stage directly
Sep 22 21:23:20 <DocScrutinizer> anyway, you'll need signature, no matter what
Sep 22 21:23:43 <DocScrutinizer> and alas we don't have the signing key
Sep 22 21:24:05 <DocScrutinizer> right?
Sep 22 21:25:25 <Otto_> sorry to interrupt but the way to go:  dd zero, battery off, flash fiasco, flash vanilla, flash fiasco, flash the relase emmc according to location?
Sep 22 21:25:35 <DocScrutinizer> aiui stage0 rom is fetching pubkey from some not accessable flash area inside SoC, and will load 1st stage only if signature is correct
Sep 22 21:25:52 <DocScrutinizer> nah
Sep 22 21:26:17 <kerio> dd zero?
Sep 22 21:26:18 <kerio> why?
Sep 22 21:26:26 <Otto_> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0
Sep 22 21:26:31 <kerio> and why flash 8 times everything
Sep 22 21:26:38 <DocScrutinizer> ...remove battery, flash eMMC aka VANILLA *WITHOUT* -R flag, then flash rootfs aka COMBINED, - done
Sep 22 21:26:50 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: you don't need signing key on non hs device
Sep 22 21:27:17 <Otto_> the site says: "NOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first, then the eMMC image immediately after that."
Sep 22 21:27:17 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 21:27:20 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: or device with hs disabled
Sep 22 21:27:33 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: nevermind, that's nonsense
Sep 22 21:27:35 <MohammadAG> Otto_, don't use -R, order doesn't matter then
Sep 22 21:27:40 <MohammadAG> ^^^
Sep 22 21:27:47 <jacekowski> that non HS version of signature is described in TRM
Sep 22 21:27:57 <Otto_> yeah, I DONT want to reboot the device between the flashes
Sep 22 21:28:30 <DocScrutinizer> Otto_: if you do by accident nevertheless, it's better to flash eMMC first
Sep 22 21:29:02 <Otto_> yeah
Sep 22 21:29:46 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, mhd
Sep 22 21:29:48 <Otto_> if that method works, I should get my flash running fine. If I fail something then I just get a new one... :P
Sep 22 21:29:57 <DocScrutinizer> this may change in >PR1.2 due to bootloader updates in fiasco image, but for now it works better with emmc first, then rootfs
Sep 22 21:30:17 <Otto_> I have tried > PR1.2 software already
Sep 22 21:30:26 <Otto_> and downgraded to PR1.2
Sep 22 21:30:27 <Otto_> :P
Sep 22 21:30:42 <Otto_> maybe that fucked up something? :)
Sep 22 21:31:56 <Otto_> or my flash is just rubbish
Sep 22 21:32:00 <Otto_> who the hell knows
Sep 22 21:32:39 <jacekowski> ekhm?
Sep 22 21:32:43 <jacekowski> >pr1.2
Sep 22 21:32:45 <jacekowski> ?
Sep 22 21:32:46 <Otto_> yes
Sep 22 21:32:59 <jacekowski> where did that came from?
Sep 22 21:33:08 <Otto_> I have acces
Sep 22 21:33:08 <Otto_> s
Sep 22 21:33:33 <jacekowski> and i'm a pope
Sep 22 21:33:42 <Otto_> well maybe you are
Sep 22 21:33:45 <Otto_> since I work for the comapny
Sep 22 21:33:51 <kerio> wait
Sep 22 21:33:52 <kerio> what
Sep 22 21:34:32 <Otto_> But my jobs has nothing to do with maemo,
Sep 22 21:34:42 <kerio> he *is* finnish
Sep 22 21:34:59 <Otto_> maybe you are correct
Sep 22 21:34:59 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 21:35:27 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: http://linux.omap.com/pub/documentation/P2_NAND_boot_support.txt#
Sep 22 21:35:31 <kerio> Otto_: i want >PR1.2
Sep 22 21:35:34 <kerio> gimme
Sep 22 21:36:37 <Otto_> hmm, I give you company confidental material and get lifetime ban to whole indrusty   ... or maybe I just keep my mouth shut
Sep 22 21:36:44 <Otto_> industry
Sep 22 21:37:01 <kwtm> Otto_: Should we believe you?
Sep 22 21:37:12 <Otto_> yo ucan believe whatever you want
Sep 22 21:37:53 <kwtm> Cuz, I work for Nokia, too.  And we're coming out with a Linux phone that has laser beams to be mounted on sharks' heads.  Ooops, that was confidential --okay, everybody, pretend I didn't let slip that top secret info.
Sep 22 21:37:53 <jacekowski> do you have voice turn by turn navigation in ovi maps?
Sep 22 21:38:21 <Otto_> I'm leaving the channel soon
Sep 22 21:38:21 <Otto_> :P
Sep 22 21:38:28 <Khertan__> lol
Sep 22 21:38:47 <kerio> :(
Sep 22 21:38:50 <kerio> tell us!
Sep 22 21:38:58 <Khertan__> i will help you ... there is qt4.7 ;)
Sep 22 21:39:03 <kerio> who cares
Sep 22 21:39:12 <Otto_> maybe I just fucked the phone
Sep 22 21:39:12 <kerio> is Blocks working better?
Sep 22 21:39:25 <Khertan__> Otto_: you have try to downgrade it ?
Sep 22 21:39:47 <Khertan__> Otto_:  and everythings is working except phone part ?
Sep 22 21:39:56 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 21:40:04 <Otto_> the  flash ain't working
Sep 22 21:40:10 <Otto_> at least not very wel
Sep 22 21:40:11 <Otto_> l
Sep 22 21:40:20 <Khertan__> ah ... this is worse that what i think
Sep 22 21:40:24 <Khertan__> :(
Sep 22 21:40:50 <jacekowski> you can wipe nand
Sep 22 21:40:54 <jacekowski> and do coldflash
Sep 22 21:41:32 <Otto_> which nand you menea?
Sep 22 21:41:33 <Otto_> mean
Sep 22 21:41:43 <Otto_> rootfs?
Sep 22 21:42:25 <jacekowski> no
Sep 22 21:42:37 <jacekowski> don't do it
Sep 22 21:42:51 <jacekowski> you will break your phone
Sep 22 21:42:54 <Otto_> I've got a broken phone already?
Sep 22 21:43:21 <Otto_> so basically I have nothing to loose..
Sep 22 21:43:40 <jacekowski> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mtd1
Sep 22 21:43:51 <Otto_> NO, i'm not doing that
Sep 22 21:43:51 <Otto_> :)
Sep 22 21:43:52 <jacekowski> that will wipe bootloader and you will have to coldflash
Sep 22 21:44:27 <Otto_> flasher -c product:hwid
Sep 22 21:45:47 <Otto_> well I'm going to dd the bigger flash and re-flash the whole thing
Sep 22 21:45:59 <Otto_> maybe it helps, maybe it wont
Sep 22 21:46:00 <Otto_> well se
Sep 22 21:46:11 <Otto_> it's time to go to bed
Sep 22 21:46:19 <Otto_> thaks a lot for this guidance
Sep 22 21:48:00 <Otto_> thanks to you I know the problem is in my flash and that's something to start with
Sep 22 21:48:29 <Otto_> off to bed
Sep 22 21:48:31 <Otto_> c ya!
Sep 22 21:48:41 <TeringTuby> Otto_: are you gonna update the wiki page after a succesful flash?
Sep 22 21:48:59 <Otto_> which page?
Sep 22 21:49:01 <Otto_> :P
Sep 22 21:49:02 <TeringTuby> or succesfully solved the problem
Sep 22 21:49:13 <TeringTuby> :-) , create one
Sep 22 21:49:23 <Otto_> well of course
Sep 22 21:49:27 <Otto_> sharing is caring ;)
Sep 22 21:49:52 <Otto_> I haven't really spend really much time in these maemo things but I'll do that -if that solves anything
Sep 22 21:50:06 <Otto_> no
Sep 22 21:50:08 <Otto_> w
Sep 22 21:50:09 <Otto_> cya
Sep 22 21:50:09 <Otto_> :P
Sep 22 21:50:17 <TeringTuby> no, I mean the broken flash page. thanks, sorry I wa reading last hours messages. My flash is broken too.... like the forum post posted earlier
Sep 22 21:50:29 <TeringTuby> thanks!
Sep 22 21:51:25 <TeringTuby> i'll try the dd to /dev/mmcblk0 too
Sep 22 21:53:22 <nox-> moin
Sep 22 22:01:03 <cr33dog> ok  - so when I launch an app via debbie on the n900 it works OK until I do something like import an image in inkscape or switch to the toolbox in GIMP - from that point on I have no stylus or keyboard :(  Any ideas?
Sep 22 22:05:03 <luke-jr> ssh in and kill gimp/inkscape
Sep 22 22:05:05 <luke-jr> :P
Sep 22 22:05:08 <luke-jr> GTK sucks, get used to it
Sep 22 22:05:37 <wmarone> what does GTK have to do with it?
Sep 22 22:05:40 <luke-jr> back when I used GTK apps on my desktop, I had a similar problem (only with GTK apps)
Sep 22 22:06:02 <luke-jr> although killing the process never fixed it…
Sep 22 22:06:11 <luke-jr> so if it does for you, it's a different problem
Sep 22 22:06:11 <wmarone> it sounds more like the thing starts swapping
Sep 22 22:06:26 <cr33dog> yeah - I've been using ssh to recover for now, but looking for a way to avoid it
Sep 22 22:06:26 <luke-jr> swapping != no stylus/kb
Sep 22 22:06:40 <kfx> gtk != the source for every problem
Sep 22 22:06:58 <luke-jr> kfx: well, it had similar symptomns :p
Sep 22 22:07:33 <luke-jr> IRC looks funny when viewed through JPEG/Tight compression :P
Sep 22 22:07:59 <kfx> is there a sane way to configure Qt yet?
Sep 22 22:08:17 <kfx> like, not using KDE, and not using qtconfig?  can I just edit a text file to set properties yet?
Sep 22 22:08:28 <kfx> I miss that from ollld Qt versions :(
Sep 22 22:08:43 <luke-jr> dunno, I just use KDE
Sep 22 22:08:56 <kfx> yeah, that seems to be what most Qt users respond with
Sep 22 22:10:08 <kfx> if the kdepim guys ever get their act together I might give kde another try, honestly
Sep 22 22:10:20 <kfx> now that they've made moves to putting real window management in kwin
Sep 22 22:10:23 <cr33dog> running 'set deb hw keys' before debbie seems to do the trick
Sep 22 22:11:26 <cr33dog> d'oh - spoke too soon
Sep 22 22:14:45 <cr33dog> is there a keyboard shortcut to get to the applications menu in lxde?
Sep 22 22:19:01 <MohammadAG> Pre-alpha of hostmode for the N900 set to be released tomorrow by me and DocScrutinizer
Sep 22 22:19:13 <MohammadAG> patches by sarahn
Sep 22 22:19:21 <wmarone> \o/
Sep 22 22:19:51 <MohammadAG> don't tweet this or anything, but here's a vid showing it, crappy quality, so again don't tweet/post anywhere, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXkQErnrb1Q
Sep 22 22:19:59 <DocScrutinizer> don't expect too much, it's a POC debug version that may or (most likely) may not work for you
Sep 22 22:20:22 <MohammadAG> Video has title as hostmode PoC :P
Sep 22 22:20:55 <MohammadAG> video -> skip to 3:05 for the fun part
Sep 22 22:21:08 <DocScrutinizer> the purpose of the whole thing is to get decent reports about symptoms when it works vs when it fails
Sep 22 22:21:10 <wmarone> was it tripping a watchdog?
Sep 22 22:21:48 <MohammadAG> three reboots? no, fcam-drivers
Sep 22 22:21:54 <wmarone> ah, ok
Sep 22 22:22:05 <GAN900> I'm really liking this OtterBox.
Sep 22 22:22:09 <DocScrutinizer> kernel still is a mess, with a lot of manual levers to throw switches via sysfs that NEED to be done in kernel automatically
Sep 22 22:22:41 <DocScrutinizer> OtterBox?
Sep 22 22:22:47 <MohammadAG> case for the N900
Sep 22 22:22:50 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Sep 22 22:22:54 <MohammadAG> or other devices
Sep 22 22:23:02 <MohammadAG> as you can see from the vid
Sep 22 22:23:18 <MohammadAG> VBUS default when flash is connected = reboot, not sure why, but it only happened once
Sep 22 22:23:24 <MohammadAG> I think bme panicked
Sep 22 22:23:31 <DocScrutinizer> never been wathing it, as I know what's in there :-P
Sep 22 22:23:49 <wmarone> good stuff
Sep 22 22:24:07 <MohammadAG> based on bad patches, it still needs work to reach alpha :P
Sep 22 22:24:25 <MohammadAG> but being closed in development isn't really good
Sep 22 22:24:31 <MohammadAG> this might attract more devs
Sep 22 22:24:53 <MohammadAG> anyways, I'm off, MohammadAG51 for a bit then I'm heading to bed
Sep 22 22:25:11 <MohammadAG> damn school wasting my time on shitty subjects
Sep 22 22:25:38 <MohammadAG> plus most of my classmates don't have books due to the school being lazy, so... waste of my time
Sep 22 22:25:43 * MohammadAG puts adapter in school bag
Sep 22 22:26:31 <GAN900> Turns the N900 brick into a concrete block.
Sep 22 22:26:42 <GAN900> But it's well engineered and effective.
Sep 22 22:39:46 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: :-D
Sep 22 22:40:20 <MohammadAG51> :)
Sep 22 22:40:20 <MohammadAG51> night o/
Sep 22 22:40:49 <DocScrutinizer> night - test many devices tomorrow in school. Try to find some that fail for you :-)
Sep 22 22:41:25 <jacekowski> MohammadAG51: query
Sep 22 22:41:34 <wmarone> reflash an N900 using an N900 :)
Sep 22 22:41:49 <DocScrutinizer> actually logs from same device done by same person, which show the diff between WFM and bork, are really most valuable
Sep 22 22:54:33 <kerio> the character chart in xchat is... useless
Sep 22 23:04:03 <DocScrutinizer51> character chart?
Sep 22 23:15:06 <bjv> two times in one week,
Sep 22 23:15:38 <bjv> im having difficulty finding any information on this:  the screen on my n810 fades out while playing back youtube content in mplayer
Sep 22 23:16:22 <bjv> picture fades out, then gradually is replaced with white vertical lines, until the entire display is a blank white
Sep 22 23:17:14 <bjv> if i ssh into the machine it's fine, with only 'omapfb omapfb: s1d1374x: line buffer not ready'  recorded in dmesg
Sep 22 23:17:24 <bjv> reboot - everything is fine,
Sep 22 23:17:49 <bjv> omapfb message seems to appear continuously, even without display failure though
Sep 22 23:21:20 <kwtm> confirm OtterBox is nice.  Wait, was this the same guy that commen ted yesterday?
Sep 23 00:02:36 <luke-jr> [18:38:52] <Winnah9000> What's the best way to share 3G from N900 to my laptop? I use Joikuspot, but it killed my battery in 2 hours
Sep 23 00:02:37 <luke-jr> lol
Sep 23 00:02:40 <luke-jr> no really⁇⁇ :P
Sep 23 00:03:15 <kfx> I wish mobilehotspot or whatever worked right
Sep 23 00:04:11 <luke-jr> kfx: it does if you install its custom kernel
Sep 23 00:05:04 <kfx> I am running that kernel
Sep 23 00:07:03 <pigeon> mobilehotspot works for me quite well, but it also uses quite a bit of battery, my feeling is 3g + wifi together will use up battery fast.
Sep 23 00:07:19 <pigeon> the phone also feels hotter too, or it could be just my imagination.
Sep 23 00:07:39 <luke-jr> yeah, that's my point
Sep 23 00:07:52 <luke-jr> nothing software can do to negate the inherent power usage of radios
Sep 23 00:12:45 <SpeedEvil> pigeon: It's not your imagination.
Sep 23 00:13:05 <pigeon> heh, glad to know ;)
Sep 23 00:13:16 <SpeedEvil> Wifi active all the time eats maybe .6W, 3G active all teh time eats maybe 2W
Sep 23 00:13:39 <SpeedEvil> So - if you're using it heavily - it can be derad in little more than an hour
Sep 23 00:13:48 <pigeon> you know how sometimes you feel hot in your pants, and you're not sure why ;)
Sep 23 00:47:14 <Mercury> Alright, I have a N810, and I'm happy with it.  Except that the sensor/switch for detecting keyboard open/closed is now triggering when the unit is closed.
Sep 23 00:47:45 <luke-jr> O.o
Sep 23 00:48:29 <Mercury> For that matter, it is not always triggering when I open the keyboard.
Sep 23 00:49:02 <Mercury> As far as I can tell from memory, the separation between the keyboard side and the screen side (while the keyboard is closed) has grown noticably since I got the unit.
Sep 23 00:49:23 <Mercury> So, any good repair guides for taking the n810 apart and getting it back together again when you're done?
Sep 23 01:03:05 <DocScrutinizer> Mercury: maybe this may help a bit: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/
Sep 23 01:08:13 <Mercury> DocScrutinizer: Thank you.
Sep 23 01:09:54 <DocScrutinizer> Mercury: iirc the kbd slide is consisting of a magnet in display half, and a reed switch next to kbd mat (the white thing with the domes)
Sep 23 01:12:41 <Mercury> DocScrutinizer: Huh, that shouldn't have this failure mode then, not unless the real issue is the keyboard half being too separated from the display half.
Sep 23 01:12:55 <DocScrutinizer> Mercury: so a slider mech that got loose or deformed may increase the distance between magnet and switch, causing it to fail. But I can't see how it both would erroneously detect kbd slide open when it isn't, and also not detect sometimes
Sep 23 01:12:58 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Sep 23 01:13:49 <Mercury> Are we sure that it's a always sensing while closed switch, and not a trigger causing a state change?
Sep 23 01:14:31 <DocScrutinizer> the physical switch for sure
Sep 23 01:14:40 <internetishard> hey, how do you make it so you only auto connect to SOME networks?
Sep 23 01:14:51 <Mercury> Hrm.
Sep 23 01:15:18 <DocScrutinizer> maybe magnet got loose and now is falling around inside device from one place to another?
Sep 23 01:15:22 <Mercury> Well, I think I will find a replacement tablet, and then try to repair this one.  Since I rather don't want to be without if I can't get it back together.
Sep 23 01:15:25 <Mercury> DocScrutinizer: Maybe.
Sep 23 01:17:06 <DocScrutinizer> reassembling isn't that difficult - except the friggin board2board connector on flat plastic cable to display
Sep 23 01:17:20 <DocScrutinizer> be very careful with this one!
Sep 23 01:17:45 <Mercury> Is it the cable itself which is fragile, or?
Sep 23 01:18:19 <DocScrutinizer> well, the rigid connector soldered to a flexible plastic PCB
Sep 23 01:19:54 <DocScrutinizer> I got no problems with it on disassembling N810, but on some N900 it failed, even when not at all disassembling the device.
Sep 23 01:20:15 <DocScrutinizer> plugging back in is a nightmare anyway
Sep 23 01:20:41 <Mercury> Plug or solder?  If it's solder, then yeah, if I break it I'm just screwed.
Sep 23 01:21:19 <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00287_jpg.jpeg.html
Sep 23 01:21:49 <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00289_jpg.jpeg.html
Sep 23 01:21:56 <Mercury>  Oh, those.
Sep 23 01:22:32 <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00344_jpg.jpeg.html
Sep 23 01:22:38 <Mercury> Do I have to unplug those to get the unit apart?
Sep 23 01:22:53 <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/n810_disassembly/snc00345_jpg.jpeg.html
Sep 23 01:22:59 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Sep 23 01:23:08 <kfx> _jpg.jpeg.html
Sep 23 01:23:13 <kfx> nice
Sep 23 01:23:45 <DocScrutinizer> kfx: blame KDE
Sep 23 01:24:39 <Mercury> Fun.
Sep 23 01:24:52 <Mercury> Thank you, I'm going to head home now, since I'm trying to get out of the office.
Sep 23 01:25:32 <Mercury> DocScrutinizer: What's the right approach to detach the keyboard side from the display side to get at that connector?
Sep 23 01:25:53 <DocScrutinizer> unscrew the 4 torx
Sep 23 01:26:06 <DocScrutinizer> carefully lift display half a bit
Sep 23 01:26:34 <Mercury> 4?  I see two when I open the keyboard.
Sep 23 01:26:53 <DocScrutinizer> unplug b2b-connector by prying it out with a 'soft' piece of plastic or the like (creditcard)
Sep 23 01:27:45 <DocScrutinizer> nah, those torx are in battery compartment
Sep 23 01:28:16 <Mercury> Ahh.  Under the section that's not the battery cover, or actually in with the battery?
Sep 23 01:29:00 <Mercury> Ah, I see....
Sep 23 01:29:20 <Mercury> And, huh, I wonder if _that's_ related.  I have three torx screws, and one hole for a 4th.
Sep 23 01:29:39 <DocScrutinizer> 2 are middle of device, under battery cover. Other two are under small metal cover next to speakers
Sep 23 01:30:00 * Mercury nods.
Sep 23 01:30:11 <DocScrutinizer> I also have 3 torx, the small ones are for the stand
Sep 23 01:31:01 <DocScrutinizer> the upper small metal cover is just snapped on
Sep 23 01:31:02 <Mercury> Do you have one where the hole is directly next to the battery (actually the hole down to where the screw rests is open slightly on the side facing the battery)?
Sep 23 01:31:46 <DocScrutinizer> uh, I have 4 torx, 2 larger symmetric ones, and 2 small ones on one side, hilding the stand
Sep 23 01:31:46 <Mercury> Because I've got the hole but no screw in it.  Which is, unexpected.
Sep 23 01:32:12 <Mercury> DocScrutinizer: Yeah, I'm missing one.  Any thoughts on where I could find replacements?
Sep 23 01:32:35 <DocScrutinizer> basically everywhere, but hard to find
Sep 23 01:32:38 <Mercury> (There's one place in town that might have one, but it's small enough that it's real questionable.)
Sep 23 01:32:54 <Mercury> Well, I've got a weekend project.
Sep 23 01:32:59 <kfx> Mercury: do you have a Fry's electronics near you?
Sep 23 01:33:00 <Mercury> DocScrutinizer: Thank you very much.
Sep 23 01:33:03 <Mercury> kfx: Yeah.
Sep 23 01:33:08 <kfx> They have that stuff.
Sep 23 01:33:16 <DocScrutinizer> is it one of the 'outer' small ones that's missing?
Sep 23 01:33:21 <Mercury> That's easier to check then elliots.
Sep 23 01:33:31 <kfx> Backup answer: get in touch with your local ham radio operator club.  Those guys are huge nerds with all kinds of everything
Sep 23 01:33:39 <Mercury> DocScrutinizer: Nope, it's one of the bigger ones.
Sep 23 01:33:58 <DocScrutinizer> that's one of those fixing the screen half to base half
Sep 23 01:34:11 <Mercury> DocScrutinizer: As I said, I wonder if it has something to do with there being a greater separation between the halves, and causing my problem.
Sep 23 01:34:22 <DocScrutinizer> also if it got inside device, it can mess up magnet function
Sep 23 01:34:31 <Mercury> Yeah.
Sep 23 01:34:34 <DocScrutinizer> sure it's related
Sep 23 01:35:04 <Mercury> I'm really heading out now, but thank you very much.  I think I've got a screw hunt to go on.
Sep 23 01:35:13 <kfx> ah, college
Sep 23 01:35:18 <kfx> oh wait you mean actual screws
Sep 23 01:35:24 <kfx> good luck!
Sep 23 01:38:46 <DocScrutinizer> raster: moo
Sep 23 01:39:02 <DocScrutinizer> and o/
Sep 23 01:40:30 <raster> DocScrutinizer: big d!
Sep 23 01:53:43 <internetishard> how do you make it so you only auto connect to SOME networks?
Sep 23 01:59:36 <lolloo> hellooo0oo
Sep 23 02:00:08 <lolloo> how do I copy a text from a website on N900?
Sep 23 02:00:38 <SpeedEvil> slide finger in one third up the screen from the left
Sep 23 02:00:42 <SpeedEvil> then select the arrow
Sep 23 02:00:49 <SpeedEvil> then use this to select text
Sep 23 02:00:55 <SpeedEvil> then copy using the menu
Sep 23 02:01:12 <lolloo> ok let me try now mmm
Sep 23 02:02:26 <lolloo> am using the default browser that came with N900
Sep 23 02:02:39 <lolloo> there is no menu in here
Sep 23 02:02:47 <lolloo> only buttons on the bottom
Sep 23 02:06:24 <wmarone> you see at the top between the status area and the X button?
Sep 23 02:06:51 <wmarone> tap there, it'll bring up the menu
Sep 23 02:07:13 <lolloo> yes menu
Sep 23 02:07:17 <lolloo> save as
Sep 23 02:07:20 <lolloo> and such
Sep 23 02:07:22 <wmarone> right
Sep 23 02:07:37 <wmarone> so do as SpeedEvil said, then when you have the text selected bring up the menu
Sep 23 02:08:00 <lolloo> can I scroll on the text?
Sep 23 02:08:04 <lolloo> how do I do that?
Sep 23 02:08:24 <lolloo> I mean how do I mark the text on the site
Sep 23 02:08:25 <ALoGeNo> hello all
Sep 23 02:08:37 <ALoGeNo> hey maemo5 use hildon-desktop no?
Sep 23 02:08:46 <wmarone> drag in from outside the left side of the screen
Sep 23 02:08:57 <wmarone> and when you want to start marking text, hold the shift key
Sep 23 02:09:05 <wmarone> ALoGeNo: yes
Sep 23 02:09:23 <ALoGeNo> thank you wmarone
Sep 23 02:10:05 <lolloo> the website is moving when I drag it
Sep 23 02:10:19 <lolloo> doesnt hold still so I can mark text
Sep 23 02:10:37 <wmarone> when you drag in from the left side of the screen, do you have a cursor?
Sep 23 02:11:17 <lolloo> no
Sep 23 02:11:39 <wmarone> touch just outside the screen, and drag in from the left
Sep 23 02:11:49 <wmarone> slightly towards the bottom edge
Sep 23 02:12:12 <wmarone> a grey square with an arrow in it should appear
Sep 23 02:12:18 <wmarone> and below your stylus should be a cursor
Sep 23 02:12:39 <ShadowJK> lolloo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rSDf2IkmLs
Sep 23 02:14:04 <lolloo> hahaha
Sep 23 02:14:14 <lolloo> bad place for a cursor!!!
Sep 23 02:14:25 <lolloo> thank you so much guys!
Sep 23 02:15:54 <lolloo> what the!!!
Sep 23 02:16:06 <lolloo> do I need to held shift!!!
Sep 23 02:16:42 <lolloo> I use my left hand with my stylus! and I cant reach the shift button!!!
Sep 23 02:16:54 <lolloo> how sad is that!
Sep 23 02:16:56 <kfx> this is really exciting!
Sep 23 02:16:57 <Hedman> hahaha
Sep 23 02:17:09 <wmarone> lolloo: when the grey box with the arrow appears, tap it
Sep 23 02:18:10 <lolloo> Yes I am control of the cursor
Sep 23 02:18:20 <lolloo> but how do I copy now
Sep 23 02:19:16 <kfx> either use ctrl+c
Sep 23 02:19:31 <kfx> or else click on the title of the browser page and then select "copy"
Sep 23 02:19:38 <ShadowJK> tap the titlebar area, right off the area with the clock, left of the X that closes the browser
Sep 23 02:20:08 <ShadowJK> if you are in fullscreen, tap lower right corner to see the button to exit fullscreen first
Sep 23 02:37:15 <lolloo> yes I have to use spacebar or shift to highlight text
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 23 02:59:58 2010