**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 02 02:59:57 2010 Oct 02 03:11:15 way to miss the whole point in true geek fashion, dockane_ Oct 02 03:11:17 DocScrutinizer: Oct 02 03:33:44 Wow, nice bot. ~seen kwtm Oct 02 03:33:48 ~seen kwtm Oct 02 03:33:52 kwtm is currently on #maemo (38m 35s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 4s, last said: '~seen kwtm'. Oct 02 03:34:03 Oh. I guess I have to be off for that to work. Oct 02 04:02:34 sorry, got distracted, as far as i know, i don't got anything set to keep the screen on Oct 02 04:12:19 (bme) you might be interested: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_chargefloat_log Oct 02 06:19:32 I need to set the n900 up with the local mobile service, but they don't have n900 on their list. What's the next nearest model that uses similar settings? Oct 02 06:30:36 hi all Oct 02 06:31:01 I can not connect to yahoo in conversations and acound with my nokia n900 mobile device , my error is : not signed in! i have same error with msn , but google talk and aim is ok ,, What should i do? Oct 02 06:34:26 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/magazine/03FOB-medium-t.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss angry birds makes NYT Oct 02 06:47:32 Hi, I'm preparing a PDF presentation, and would like to be able to use the TV cable on my n900 (as a backup solution) Oct 02 06:47:45 In what resolution would it be best to prepare the PDF? Oct 02 06:48:20 I'm using LaTeX beamer, and the default of 800x600 doesn't look so good. Anyone has experince with this? Oct 02 06:51:10 800x480 Oct 02 06:57:23 moo, zap, Stskeeps Oct 02 06:58:38 Stskeeps: ok, will try to find the option in beamer to set that resolution. thanks Oct 02 06:59:21 moo RST38h Oct 02 07:39:02 hi, i am getting an error when trying to apt-get update from sbox arm target Oct 02 07:39:24 i following the instructions as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution Oct 02 07:39:41 ERROR: http://pastebin.ca/1953136 Oct 02 07:39:53 its says packages not found Oct 02 07:42:59 please help! Oct 02 08:01:16 hi, can anybody help me out here with this? http://pastebin.ca/1953143 Oct 02 08:01:23 **please Oct 02 08:23:48 Hi, seen this http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-October/027687.html ? Could this be backported or does maemo already make use of the hw. accel. for codecs? Oct 02 08:30:14 it already does Oct 02 08:31:11 Stskeeps, i am having problems with apt-get update, http://pastebin.ca/1953143 Oct 02 08:31:55 cotigao: you've misconfigured your sb Oct 02 08:33:10 Stskeeps, but I am following the instructions as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution Oct 02 08:33:29 Stskeeps, what possibly i could have overlooked? Oct 02 08:33:45 unsure Oct 02 08:33:53 * Stskeeps has banned sb from his life permanently, so Oct 02 08:33:54 :P Oct 02 08:34:01 Stskeeps: So it is just important to other projects, like the beagleboard and pandaboard. Maybe the vlc people could make use of it, but vlc for maemo seems to have stalled. Oct 02 08:34:11 tobis87: it's important for meego, too Oct 02 08:34:15 on n900 Oct 02 08:35:29 Why? If it already uses it, what is new on this that it is available as source? Oct 02 08:36:10 it was always available as source, afaik Oct 02 08:38:17 Stskeeps, is there any alternative to this? ... i mean a documented one Oct 02 08:38:31 cotigao: you need to use the install script Oct 02 08:38:34 and it'll set it up proeprly Oct 02 08:38:48 Stskeeps, where can i get it? Oct 02 08:39:32 cotigao: google a bit :) Oct 02 08:39:34 * Stskeeps is off for shopping Oct 02 08:40:57 Stskeeps, ahh.. ok thanks ... :) Oct 02 08:41:19 Btw, do you know a bug which causes "DMA transaction error with device" ? This is all I get, if I want to use the hw encrypt. with 256-essiv. Oct 02 08:53:31 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63208 , insane "12:Max. 1150Mhz" Oct 02 09:53:20 hi, is there a away to disable charging in n900? Oct 02 09:53:25 *way Oct 02 09:53:31 *usb charging Oct 02 09:56:28 yes Oct 02 09:56:39 before you plug it in, stop bme Oct 02 09:56:48 why? Oct 02 09:56:59 start bme after Oct 02 10:14:52 hi Oct 02 10:15:56 is there a way i can see what my N900 is thinking when it decides to not lock the screen and keys after i leave it untouched for the required time for that? Oct 02 10:17:34 somthing like a live readout of all the parameters it reads to consider whether to lock the screen due to timeout or not Oct 02 10:18:44 or some other status indicator that would shed some light on why it isn't qorking as expected Oct 02 10:21:36 my n900 is connected to the internet by usb to this eeepc and through it's wifi, everything works fine excpet application manager, which demands a connection from thte list. The usb connection is not listed, so how do I proceed? Oct 02 10:22:24 or do I just do apt-get update and upgrade from a terminal? Oct 02 12:08:47 mornig all Oct 02 12:10:25 why's parted not there for fremantle ? Oct 02 12:13:31 did some checking over tinymail, now I wonder if it is also reused for MeeGo? Oct 02 12:14:03 If so, hasthe modest shortcomings stem from improper use of tinymail or from misdesign and coding in the modest mail client itself? Oct 02 12:14:13 * sivang wonders if anybody have an idea Oct 02 12:14:55 both, maybe Oct 02 12:15:04 i wish modest a horrible death Oct 02 12:15:19 Stskeeps:you think meego client will be better? Oct 02 12:15:48 RST38h: ref client is not in 1.1 due to bugs, so no Oct 02 12:15:58 * RST38h sghs Oct 02 12:16:00 Stskeeps: hehe Oct 02 12:16:09 RST38h: i hope someone sane will code a better one Oct 02 12:16:26 Stskeeps: I think, by now it is clear that the problem is not with built in apps. It is with the way they are developed... Oct 02 12:16:36 Stskeeps: what would you propose as a middleware IMAP/pop local storage lib to be used? Oct 02 12:16:50 Stskeeps: Based on MMaemo4 and Maemo5 experience, won't happen Oct 02 12:16:53 RST38h: under rush? Oct 02 12:17:01 sivang: no idea Oct 02 12:17:05 Stskeeps: I can think of several reasons Oct 02 12:17:34 and if you wondered, so the fact the backup tool has to accept my 'don't overritw' request makes it not restore apps as well Oct 02 12:17:37 FWIW Oct 02 12:17:48 DocScrutinizer: hence why my apps were not installed :) Oct 02 12:18:10 Stskeeps: 1) constant rush 2) unexperienced developers, with high turnaround 3) development policies preventing actual development from happening Oct 02 12:18:29 Stskeeps: 4) constantly changing priorities, with developers being shuffled between projects Oct 02 12:18:38 DocScrutinizer: I knew I used HAM to install every one of them , I thought I was going crazy recalling doing so Oct 02 12:19:04 Stskeeps: Honestly, I have no idea which of these are affecting Maemo/Meego Devices, but some clearly are Oct 02 12:19:46 * sivang tries to find a good linux imap lib with good performance and support for good caching. Oct 02 12:20:42 now what? the udate light is blinking and nothing happens in HAM Oct 02 12:20:47 and it said it wasgoing to restore the apps Oct 02 12:22:12 ah! after a while, things get clear. Oct 02 12:22:22 * sivang notes HAM shoudl REALLY have some BETTER progress indication Oct 02 12:22:30 I was going to click it away already Oct 02 12:22:35 :-...( Oct 02 12:22:52 is FAM better at progress indication? Oct 02 12:22:53 sivang, it would be nice if HAM just didnt suck. Period. Oct 02 12:23:27 sivang, FAM is much better and much faster imo Oct 02 12:23:32 fapman Oct 02 12:23:38 :p Oct 02 12:24:29 sivang, welcome to Maemo: Where it's all half-assed! Oct 02 12:25:32 hi all Oct 02 12:27:04 i installed the latest nokia qt sdk, and when i launched the qt creator it says help is not installed. Any ideas why not? Oct 02 12:31:33 Termana: I will install it once th restore is finished, does it hae proper progress indication? Oct 02 12:36:51 it seems somtimes when i restart mce the autolock works a couple of times, but then it stops working again Oct 02 12:40:04 there's no FAM, there's only Fapman :D Oct 02 12:40:50 wazd:moooooooooooooo Oct 02 12:40:59 RST38h: heya :) Oct 02 12:41:20 wooooop Oct 02 12:41:24 * MohammadAG slaps Noobmonk3y around with a large frals Oct 02 12:41:31 wazd: http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/096/b/5/Russian_elephants_by_Waldemar_Kazak.jpg !!!! Oct 02 12:41:47 hey mo! Oct 02 12:42:31 hows the land of maemo today? Oct 02 12:42:40 sleepy. Oct 02 12:42:56 awwwwwww Oct 02 12:42:56 my N900 doesn't feel like autolocking the screen anymore :( Oct 02 12:43:08 RST38h: jeez :D Oct 02 12:43:19 Tiaago, has it got swine flu? Oct 02 12:43:22 sorry tohear that, I am afraid you will have to put it down Oct 02 12:45:40 it isn't sneazing nor anything, and it isn't feverish either (for an N900, if it was a human it would need imediate medical attention) Oct 02 12:49:17 TiagoTiago: mine does this as well Oct 02 12:49:29 RST38h: hehe, using a sleep shot? Oct 02 12:51:00 sivang, does what? Stop autolocking or just be warm? Oct 02 12:53:11 TiagoTiago: both :) Oct 02 12:53:22 what does MicroB have with geolocation? Oct 02 12:53:51 any idea how i can fix the autolocking behavior? Oct 02 12:54:16 there's a package maemo-geolocation, do I need it? (HAM restore asks me which packages to restore) Oct 02 12:54:31 also, should I report a bug about the HAM oddity ? Oct 02 12:54:59 there is an extension to let webpages see your location data (from GPS or cell network) Oct 02 12:59:20 so Oct 02 12:59:35 should a thread which violates the GPL license be kept alive? Oct 02 12:59:55 report it for copyright infrigement or council? Oct 02 13:00:16 MohammadAG: on the forum? Oct 02 13:00:28 How do you violate GPL in a foru thread? Oct 02 13:00:40 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=831506&postcount=1 Oct 02 13:00:40 * sivang is curious as well Oct 02 13:00:40 No, really? Oct 02 13:00:53 they're distributing the neopwn kernel without a source Oct 02 13:00:54 RST38h: mentioning RMS's smell Oct 02 13:01:03 on their own repo Oct 02 13:01:11 and they're stating it's their property Oct 02 13:01:24 heh Oct 02 13:02:29 talk with the owners of the intelectul property or whoever else enforces the GPL Oct 02 13:02:58 the owner hasn't published the binaries publicly Oct 02 13:03:35 i mean tell them what's going on so they can take action Oct 02 13:03:53 Mohammad: So how does he violate gpl? Oct 02 13:04:24 releasing binnary copiled with GPL code without releasing source? Oct 02 13:04:27 you do realise there's lots of source codes that hasn't been published.. much like that hacked fm-transmitter Oct 02 13:04:46 fmtxd? Oct 02 13:04:58 that isn't GPL licensed Oct 02 13:05:06 ask them for the source, if they don't give you then report them to the authorities Oct 02 13:05:41 fmtx-si4713.ko Oct 02 13:06:06 Paleontologists Unearth Giant Fossilized Penguin Oct 02 13:06:20 lol Oct 02 13:07:04 psycho_oreos, talk to jacekowski then :) Oct 02 13:07:21 the source is available in the linux kernel, it has the numbers changed to match each other Oct 02 13:08:04 MohammadAG, the plain one is available in the maemo patched linux kernel but not the hacked one :) so maybe jacekowski should also be reported? :) Oct 02 13:09:05 he can provide the source for it upon request, those guys can't Oct 02 13:09:30 psycho_oreos, the neopwn kernel doesn't have a public source Oct 02 13:09:43 but why only on request? isn't that still somewhat a partial violation? Oct 02 13:09:48 no Oct 02 13:09:59 MohammadAG, that's true but that module doesn't have a source until requested Oct 02 13:10:13 sometimes I release binaries without a source Oct 02 13:10:22 and I get a PM (usually from Matan) about it Oct 02 13:10:37 then I provide the source (or the patches) Oct 02 13:11:24 hmm Oct 02 13:11:34 * MohammadAG thinks he found a way to disable transitions in hildon-desktop Oct 02 13:12:52 any idea how i can fix the autolock not happening, or at least figure out why? Oct 02 13:15:11 hmm Oct 02 13:16:19 TiagoTiago, probably mce being an ass about it Oct 02 13:16:26 either restart mce and see if that works, or reboot Oct 02 13:16:31 stop mce then start mce Oct 02 13:17:54 nope Oct 02 13:18:40 had already tried with the LED pattern editor, and rebooting, somtimes it works again, but that only lasts one or two unlocks Oct 02 13:18:56 tried now with the commands you said, nothing changed Oct 02 13:22:21 hi Oct 02 13:22:40 is there a way for a homescreenwidget to programmatically change it's size? Oct 02 13:22:54 how does it play together with the values in the .desktop file? Oct 02 13:23:40 I already suggested mce.ini clean, but inspection of TiagoTiago's pastebin didn't show particular odds Oct 02 13:25:09 tried again and this time it locked once, i unlocked it and it isn´t locking again Oct 02 13:25:49 i tried replacing it anyway still nothing Oct 02 13:26:20 alarmd, mce, dbus, damn that can be a lot of things Oct 02 13:26:53 no way to diagnose it? Oct 02 13:27:00 hard Oct 02 13:27:31 cars got plugs you stick a laptop in and it says what is wrong.... Oct 02 13:27:32 homescreenwidget on a n900 that is .. (hildon I guess) Oct 02 13:27:49 ltrace mce (if that doesn't instantly reboot your system) - alas you'll have to analyze the log yourself Oct 02 13:28:14 there isn't a thing that says what mce is seeing and what it's thinking? Oct 02 13:29:02 not afaik Oct 02 13:29:48 i'll try that command you said Oct 02 13:29:56 but a dbus-monitor --system | less might help as well Oct 02 13:30:39 if any app is disabling screen blanking, then it most likely will do via dbus msg to mce Oct 02 13:30:39 ltrace not found :/ Oct 02 13:31:12 i dont got less either :( Oct 02 13:32:17 debugging mce isn't a ootb-usecase :-P Oct 02 13:32:40 "ootb" ? Oct 02 13:32:45 ~ootb Oct 02 13:32:53 ~wtf ootb Oct 02 13:32:55 Gee... I don't know what ootb means... Oct 02 13:33:01 ~useless Oct 02 13:33:02 * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( Oct 02 13:33:14 ~ootb is Out Of The Box Oct 02 13:33:15 okay, DocScrutinizer Oct 02 13:33:21 i see Oct 02 13:33:42 can i install somthing relativelly safe that will let me do it? Oct 02 13:33:59 apt-get insrall less ltrace Oct 02 13:34:25 k Oct 02 13:34:42 any other utils that might come in handy? Oct 02 13:34:55 dbus-monitor Oct 02 13:35:16 guess that's default install though Oct 02 13:35:28 wonder ehy Oct 02 13:35:32 why* Oct 02 13:36:38 what should i look for in the scrolling text? Oct 02 13:37:07 a msg to mce, asking to keep screen unblanked Oct 02 13:37:26 check dbus pages e.g of jebba Oct 02 13:40:30 that less thing doesn't update Oct 02 13:41:26 "signal sender=:1.431 -> dest=(null destination) serial=380 path=/com/nokia/mce/signal; interface=com.nokia.mce.signal; member=system_inactivity_ind" ? Oct 02 13:41:30 hey there Oct 02 13:41:45 i finally got scratchbox all set up Oct 02 13:42:05 and working with xepher server too Oct 02 13:42:35 signal sender=:1.41 -> dest=(null destination) serial=6515 path=/com/nokia/iphbd; interface=com.nokia.iphbd; member=wakeup150 Oct 02 13:42:38 ? Oct 02 13:43:18 TiagoTiago: yes, noticed that Oct 02 13:43:21 first port of call, whats the easiest way to move things over to the n900 itsself? Oct 02 13:43:54 that was another msg Oct 02 13:44:28 two so far i've noticed had words that could indicate being related to my issue Oct 02 13:45:39 i tried compiling winexe from its sourceforge source, and it compiles grand under both x86 and arm archs Oct 02 13:46:17 TiagoTiago: sorry, I can't really help here. As mentioned above, you'll probably have to analyze the logs yourself Oct 02 13:46:19 but i imagine it needs all of its own libs, etc, so how can i package them all together Oct 02 13:46:30 :( Oct 02 13:47:10 gonna try that ltrace thing Oct 02 13:48:03 TiagoTiago: I honestly think your mce is segfaulting and gets restarted. Failing screenblanking is a known issue of restarted mce. Oct 02 13:48:36 wold there be a log registring when it segfaults? Oct 02 13:48:55 you can probably check some files dsme-related the name of which I can't recall right now, to find out if mce got restarted Oct 02 13:49:17 where can i find the names/paths? Oct 02 13:49:23 ask here Oct 02 13:49:44 or skim /var/* Oct 02 13:50:17 or google Oct 02 13:50:18 ok, what is the name of the dsme related files that will tell me when mce got restarted? Oct 02 13:52:15 any suggestion of keywords that might speed up the search? Oct 02 13:55:21 would the file have a .log extension? Oct 02 13:56:13 don't think so Oct 02 13:56:37 or be inside a folder with log in the name? Oct 02 13:59:42 TiagoTiago: /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets Oct 02 13:59:47 etc Oct 02 14:02:42 mce itself isn't mentioned in the files there Oct 02 14:03:09 TiagoTiago: also a simple ps can tell you about mce's PID, and that will change on restarts Oct 02 14:04:01 syslog also might help Oct 02 14:05:01 but for sure the best clue is to remember what you installed or did immediately befor the problem started Oct 02 14:05:16 and the easiest fix is to reflash Oct 02 14:05:21 :( Oct 02 14:06:10 [C Oct 02 14:06:18 uninstall fcam, it's known to interfere with mce Oct 02 14:06:28 where do i find the syslog? Oct 02 14:07:11 TiagoTiago: there'll be none unless you installed syslogd Oct 02 14:07:38 dmesg might hold just enough of info though Oct 02 14:07:57 i'll go install that Oct 02 14:08:08 first go uninstall fcam! Oct 02 14:09:43 k Oct 02 14:12:09 fcam is known to do nasty really wrong things to indicator LED, which in turn may cause mce to segfault Oct 02 14:12:42 iirc that is Oct 02 14:14:37 should i reboot after uninstalling fcam? Oct 02 14:16:49 if reboot isn't needed then uninstalling it made no difference Oct 02 14:19:43 ok, i'll reboot, brb Oct 02 14:28:00 seems that did it Oct 02 14:28:07 :-P Oct 02 14:28:15 ~lart fcam Oct 02 14:28:15 * infobot installs a bad bootloader on fcam and turns fcam into a brick Oct 02 14:28:17 gonna reinstall fcam and see if the issue returns Oct 02 14:28:34 yes it will Oct 02 14:29:25 as mentioned above, fcam does wrong things to indicator LED (google for fcam blink), and this will eventually lead to same problem again Oct 02 14:30:44 well, if it does happen again later, i'll know what to do, meanwhile i'll keep having manual settings avaiable for special shots Oct 02 14:31:29 fcam is known to do nasty really wrong things to indicator LED, which in turn may cause mce to segfault Oct 02 14:31:33 muhaha, noobs Oct 02 14:31:49 I added LED support to my app in a not so clean way, but it doesn't bother the CPU Oct 02 14:31:52 err, mce* Oct 02 14:32:38 erm, it is still installed o.o Oct 02 14:34:10 lets see if it still autolocking.... Oct 02 14:35:00 balls :( Oct 02 14:36:12 removing it with other means now Oct 02 14:40:07 MohammadAG: mce = maemo camera engine? Oct 02 14:40:46 how nice, usb hangups are no on the laptop as well :) Oct 02 14:40:56 * [XeN] is now away: Hi, this is the answer mashine. Leave a message after the beep. Beep. Oct 02 14:41:47 ~mce Oct 02 14:41:47 MCE = Machine Check Exception Oct 02 14:42:19 i don't think that is it Oct 02 14:42:57 ~bce Oct 02 14:43:01 machine control entity Oct 02 14:43:16 isn't it mode? Oct 02 14:43:21 yeah Oct 02 14:43:25 ah, yet another entity ,like the dsme Oct 02 14:43:30 ~dsme Oct 02 14:43:30 i guess dsme is Device State Management Entity Oct 02 14:43:38 *cough* yes Oct 02 14:45:33 [XeN]: disable that away message! Oct 02 14:46:18 so how does fcam makes mce segfault? Oct 02 14:46:50 it opens LP5523 sysfs nodes, so mce fails when trying to access those, afaik Oct 02 14:47:21 mce is stupid enough to simply segfault on such a simple problem Oct 02 14:48:25 fcam is ignorant enough to access lp5523 indicator LED sysnodes directly, instead of using well documented easy-to-use mce interface for that Oct 02 14:50:07 but does it do it even if i don't fire up any camera program? Oct 02 14:50:47 dunno, camera-ui is started as a daemon, during boot. nfc what fcam does Oct 02 14:52:07 I never really wraped my head around it. It's just a "meh, oh well..." for me, followed by immediate uninstall of fcam Oct 02 14:53:10 having manual controls for the camera parameters is a big thing for certain types of photographers Oct 02 14:53:45 sure Oct 02 14:54:18 for me fcam never performed up to par to the genuine pr1.2 cam app Oct 02 14:58:03 til PR1.2 the Nokia cam app was real crap. The PR1.2 though has improved a lot, and I'm quite happy with nightmode. So major PITA is you can't exactly remote control the camera-ui, for example to implement timer shots, or BT remote control shots (think of a BT headset pushbutton used to trigger a photo taken) Oct 02 15:02:06 * RST38h isn't sure what the "improvement" was. It is still crap, and the software has nothing to do with it. Oct 02 15:03:47 what's the chmod to make users only able to see their own files? Oct 02 15:03:52 777? Oct 02 15:03:53 nah Oct 02 15:06:36 use midnight commander or some other graphical interface to set permissions, no need for doing binary AND and binnary to decimal convertions in your head :) Oct 02 15:07:25 MohammadAG: no file on earth should need 777 Oct 02 15:07:44 0600 is user all, others none Oct 02 15:08:00 MohammadAG: you can do somethin like chmod a-rwx , then chmod u+rwx on the ir with -R flag Oct 02 15:08:11 or what satmd said :) Oct 02 15:08:30 u=rw,g-rwx,o-rwx Oct 02 15:08:33 or that one Oct 02 15:09:16 mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:/home$ cd mohammad/ Oct 02 15:09:16 bash: cd: mohammad/: Permission denied Oct 02 15:09:19 fvck Oct 02 15:09:34 oh, for directories, you'll need +x, too Oct 02 15:09:42 So just checked Phoronix, and this came up "New to Wine 1.3.4 is support for right-to-left mirrored windows, Winelib now supporting the ARM architecture..." Oct 02 15:09:56 What does the last part affect? Oct 02 15:10:32 probably you can compile windows-sourcecode against winelib to run on arm Oct 02 15:11:00 MohammadAG: execute bit on directories mean the abilty to cd into them :P Oct 02 15:13:36 Mohammad: go-rwx Oct 02 15:13:51 there's a number afaik Oct 02 15:14:25 sivang: not exactly. execute bit on dir means you can read the dir content, like in ls Oct 02 15:15:04 MohammadAG, correct, there are lots of numbers in the universe. Oct 02 15:15:29 setting a dir -x sometimes comes handy, as world still can read files from that dir IF and only IF they know exact full path to file Oct 02 15:16:46 MohammadAG: number? which number? 700 or what? Oct 02 15:16:48 DocScrutinizer: ah, so you can still cd into it? Okay, everyday you learn something new Oct 02 15:17:18 DocScrutinizer: ah no, you can just read files off of it if you know exact path. Oct 02 15:17:26 what happens to GUI file browsers/managers? Oct 02 15:18:03 sivang: given cd probably is a shell local thing to set $CWD, I'd not expect any problems in cd'ing into a -x dir Oct 02 15:18:33 DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG> bash: cd: mohammad/: Permission denied Oct 02 15:18:47 sivang: wasn't that (if you know exact path) exactly what I told before? Oct 02 15:18:57 DocScrutinizer: every process has a working directory you can change with chdir(2). Oct 02 15:19:12 that is a process property, not really a shell thing. Oct 02 15:19:12 DocScrutinizer: sorry I got confused, yes, this i exactly what you said Oct 02 15:19:25 sivang, I can cd right now Oct 02 15:19:29 nomis: ack Oct 02 15:19:34 I want other users to not be able to Oct 02 15:19:59 MohammadAG: RTFM Oct 02 15:20:09 DocScrutinizer: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/270183/ Oct 02 15:20:39 DocScrutinizer: 16:18 < DocScrutinizer> sivang: given cd probably is a shell local thing to set $CWD, I'd not expect any problems in cd'ing into a -x dir Oct 02 15:20:39 * DocScrutinizer doesn't bite on unknown bait Oct 02 15:20:47 hmm, the maemo sdk image for virtualpc fails at step three :S seems not to setup the scratchbox properly Oct 02 15:21:38 MohammadAG: chmod a-x $DIR; chmod u+x $DIR Oct 02 15:22:33 MohammadAG: I am using this to protect backup directories together with making them readonly for everybody unless I specifically make them writeable for root Oct 02 15:22:46 MohammadAG: (the files in them, that is) Oct 02 15:23:30 sivang: you need to create the file directory initially with correct permissions. otherwise somebody can chdir there before you manage chmod it :) Oct 02 15:23:35 s/file // Oct 02 15:23:35 lindi- meant: sivang: you need to create the directory initially with correct permissions. otherwise somebody can chdir there before you manage chmod it :) Oct 02 15:24:17 lindi-: true, but no one can log into my machine other than me in a non catastrophic scenario Oct 02 15:24:31 ( mkdir -m og-rwx foo ) Oct 02 15:24:37 lindi-: so challgne response passwords are disabled, and there only one account that uses SSH keys Oct 02 15:24:51 lindi-: good note though :) Oct 02 15:25:16 sivang: indeed. it's a nasty limitation in *nix, you can't really revoke +x Oct 02 15:30:43 4 Oct 02 15:50:10 can any talk me on how to use IRC plugin on n900, cant enter on rooms Oct 02 15:50:14 ? Oct 02 15:50:29 lindi-: interesting thought :-) Oct 02 15:51:57 lindi-: why not ? if you create the this with -m og-rwx as you noted? Oct 02 15:52:00 xchat works Oct 02 15:52:15 sivang: well that's not revoking then Oct 02 15:52:31 sivang: revoking means that you previously granted access but want to not grant it anymore Oct 02 15:52:33 * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if a 'cd foo/bar; mv .. boo' still will cause havoc to filesystem like it used to some decades ago :-P Oct 02 15:53:08 lindi-: well, but you can no? using chmod a-x and then chmod u+x ? Oct 02 15:53:14 DocScrutinizer, try it Oct 02 15:53:50 sivang: that won't revoke access from people who have already used chdir to get to that dir Oct 02 15:53:56 lol, I'm not that much interested in it, but I'm rather sure some patch has blocked such nasty thing years ago Oct 02 15:54:14 lindi-: ah right Oct 02 15:54:22 lindi-: changes are not refelcted real time Oct 02 15:54:34 sivang: the only way to revoke is to reboot :) Oct 02 15:54:36 lindi-: but that allows for the great concurrency *nix provide Oct 02 15:55:52 lindi-: so when one process accessed a folder, and nother one erased it, or chmod'd it, the former can still operate until it stops :) Oct 02 15:56:06 lindi-: this does has rather some intereting side effects at time, but hey, nobdy's perfect Oct 02 15:58:09 lindi-: revoking any resources would rewuire some async error feedback making an e.g fopen() in an alien process fail arbitrary time after it originally succeeded. That's really a big thing, and basically a nightmare to cope with, from a app developer POV Oct 02 15:59:55 * sivang yays, N900 is now with pr1.2 and all apps restored. Oct 02 16:01:15 the backup app is nice, just needs to continue what it was planning to do when refusing to overwrite files, Oct 02 16:01:49 not ask the specific file but rahter "thre's a more recent contact data, do you want to restoe the backed up anyways?" Oct 02 16:02:05 and maybe add file backup as well integrated Oct 02 16:21:31 when I connect by gprs, which my provider has a proxy for, and then want to revert to my USB network through the gateway I have in the eeepc, I find that the proxy seems to still be in effect as I can not make http connections, but i can do stuff like irc yahoo etc on other ports. I fix it by cycling all the connections, but that is a real pain, is there any better way? Oct 02 16:28:01 yes, I'd suggest set proxy to none when establishing usb networking Oct 02 16:32:21 hmm anyone seen his 3G network connection not available anymore from the network context menu after the upgrade? Oct 02 16:32:35 * sivang thinks maybe he needs to do that carrier setup stupidity Oct 02 16:32:40 where they send you an SMS Oct 02 16:32:48 with some details and you have to do something with it Oct 02 16:33:12 the upgrade? Oct 02 16:34:32 keesj: ? Oct 02 16:34:59 I just lost the "3G Network" connection but ironically I have an "MMS" one Oct 02 16:35:56 DocScrutinizer: sure - but that is also a pain when I have to jump between them a lot Oct 02 16:37:23 jpinx-eeepc: so you got any better suggestion than to streamline the not really supported usb networking to make it fit into maemo's connection management scheme? Oct 02 16:37:59 DocScrutinizer: I hadn't up till now, but if it needs doing I'll take a look Oct 02 16:43:36 what adds the network connections possible to the choose network menu? Oct 02 16:51:44 * sivang cries Oct 02 16:51:57 I think that's ICD Oct 02 16:51:59 It's closed Oct 02 16:52:09 ? Oct 02 17:00:29 hi, is there a problem with repository.maemo.org? Oct 02 17:00:35 isn't mmcblk0p2 only mounted through /home and /opt ? Oct 02 17:01:07 I umounted both and it's still saying Device or Resource busy. Oct 02 17:11:31 SpeedEvil, yes. Oct 02 17:22:15 hey hey guys just ported catdoc! so exciting! considering how badly i was feeling yesterday, after messing with scratchbox I had to go for fresh install, was realy frustrating, but took advantage and upgraded to 10.10 yet another exciting event, everything is so shiny! and scratchbox install went smoothly, and emulation works, but first i have to start Xephyr and then from X86 box af-sb-init.sh start, i was wondering how actually I can interact in emulation, can I Oct 02 17:24:37 Can anyone explain me why Android is more favored ? Oct 02 17:25:36 Qantourisc: device chiper can run it, non reach people dominating Oct 02 17:25:52 "non reach people" ? Oct 02 17:25:59 "device chiper" ? Oct 02 17:26:14 "can" ? Oct 02 17:26:25 Qantourisc: sorry for mispell, i can repeat Oct 02 17:26:45 juk: yes please i cannot correct the mispells Oct 02 17:30:03 Qantourisc: it can run on cheaper cost devices, and in my place price 300$ vs 500$ Oct 02 17:30:23 ooo nice Oct 02 17:30:54 still don't need a smartphone but i's getting closed, so reacheaching in advance Oct 02 17:31:15 and one of the weirder question will be how i do my IM :) Oct 02 17:31:32 Qantourisc: and in my place who can afford n900 is rich man Oct 02 17:31:46 :/ Oct 02 17:32:01 i don't even know if i want IM on my phone :) Oct 02 17:32:01 Qantourisc: still in doubt? Oct 02 17:32:06 in doubt over ? Oct 02 17:32:40 Qantourisc: you from Belgium or what? Oct 02 17:32:47 Correct Oct 02 17:33:20 Qantourisc: so no wonder, Belgium vs Asia Oct 02 17:33:36 how about a clamshell tablet with 2x 1280x600 screens hinged tightly to minimize bezel Oct 02 17:34:00 juk: ? Oct 02 17:35:53 Hi all, I have a problem on my N900 and evry time that i try to add something into the calendar i get "error" Oct 02 17:41:05 Qantourisc: ok, $43,533 vs $6,100, GDP per capita, Belgium vs China Oct 02 17:41:44 juk: serious price difference :) Oct 02 17:42:15 Qantourisc: what im talking about ;) Oct 02 17:43:24 Otacon22, hrm, thats not good Oct 02 17:43:37 :( Oct 02 17:43:46 pupnik, supposing you did, are we having any real gaming/keyboard controls on it too? Oct 02 17:43:58 The calendar opens, but when i try to add something inside i get "Error" Oct 02 17:44:06 Otacon22, do your existing cal entries work well? Oct 02 17:44:13 ie, edit an existing one Oct 02 17:44:19 wait Oct 02 17:44:28 * lcuk makes a note in his calendar to wait Oct 02 17:45:27 I don't have entries here Oct 02 17:45:46 (i don't know if it is because i've just flashed Oct 02 17:46:08 did you restore from backup after you flashed too? Oct 02 17:46:20 no Oct 02 17:46:45 hum, i have an old backup, I'm going to try to put on that Oct 02 17:49:01 lcuk: i was wondering if something like that could be made useful and attractive, lcuk Oct 02 17:49:32 of course it could be pupnik Oct 02 17:49:40 i have been holding pairs of devices together for yonks Oct 02 17:50:10 i now Oct 02 17:50:26 i don't think it's attractive with that much bezel Oct 02 17:50:40 understandably so Oct 02 17:53:18 pupnik, are you meeting up with Carol this weekend? I noticed she flew into Germany Oct 02 17:58:23 Are there any phones where you can drop the latest ISO from android or maemo on without passing by your manufacturere ? Oct 02 17:59:13 since when do android or maemo come as an ISO? :o Oct 02 17:59:32 or source, or build or whatever :) Oct 02 18:01:22 Still funny to see how companies use linux on there stuff, yet it's nothing like linux :/ Oct 02 18:02:33 n900 is still only it Oct 02 18:03:07 hi all Oct 02 18:03:36 SpeedEvil: yes i know, and if you want to install, you need to download from nokia ? Oct 02 18:03:45 how are n900's selling? any guesses? Oct 02 18:03:56 probably slower thanthey were. Oct 02 18:04:10 MohammadAG51: do you know how to enable 3g network after 1.2 upgrade ? this is sivang Oct 02 18:05:29 user___: it just worked for me Oct 02 18:05:49 luke-jr_: hmm Oct 02 18:06:36 i dont know why it disappeared Oct 02 18:06:58 but there was some mention of it but no solution in google Oct 02 18:07:25 and i did chose latest firmware Oct 02 18:08:16 user___, isn't there an app which forces 2g only? Oct 02 18:08:22 that you mightv forgotten about Oct 02 18:08:40 on most phones you can configure if it should use 3G 2G Edge, etc ... Oct 02 18:14:45 lcuk: i specifically set itt to 3g trnasport Oct 02 18:14:48 user___, http://maemo.org/packages/view/3g2g-mode-selection-applet/ Oct 02 18:14:49 ok Oct 02 18:19:47 lcuk: what odd is that MMS is there and i did not add fMMS back Oct 02 18:22:06 I think i'd best wait till netbooks become phones :) Oct 02 18:22:24 N900 and freerunner I'd guess Oct 02 18:22:30 but freerunner presents its own challenges :D Oct 02 18:22:36 maybe nexus one too Oct 02 18:22:42 but, drivers drivers drivers Oct 02 18:23:16 drivers is there own fault Oct 02 18:23:25 if you make a chip, write your drivers foss Oct 02 18:23:29 and no wories ever again Oct 02 18:24:07 sure, but from a user's point of view, freerunner and N900 are probably in the best driver position :/ Oct 02 18:36:17 anyone using pymedia on n900? i cant get the setup script to detect ogg, vorbis, mp3lame, alsa etc Oct 02 18:40:00 l0up: no but i'm familiar with "crap" in general :) Oct 02 18:40:26 anything specific it says ? Oct 02 18:40:44 e2fsck tells me 'device or resource busy' while I totally umounted everything relate to /home and /opt Oct 02 18:41:08 jacktheripper: did you use umount -l ? (lazy) ? Oct 02 18:41:08 quanttrom: just says it cannot detect anything and asks if i want to continue Oct 02 18:41:19 Qantourisc, yes Oct 02 18:41:33 jacktheripper: lazy unmounting might still leave the FS mounted Oct 02 18:41:55 jacktheripper: it makes it inaccessable for new programs and request, not the ones that are open :/ Oct 02 18:42:38 Qantourisc, can I find what's opening the device ? I already tried fuser and lsof. Oct 02 18:42:57 jacktheripper: lsof and fuser reveiled nothing in use ? Oct 02 18:43:14 jacktheripper: also if ther eis anything mounted in /home or /opt it's an issue Oct 02 18:43:31 Qantourisc, lsof did reveal stuff before the lazy unmounting. fuser never showed me anything. Oct 02 18:43:33 Qantourisc: maybe i should have the devlibs installed? but i cant install libogg-dev, says that libc6-dev is needed but not installable Oct 02 18:43:49 l0up: not sure Oct 02 18:43:55 and libvorbis-dev says it needs libogg-dev Oct 02 18:44:15 l0up: but it can't detec alsa either ? Oct 02 18:44:18 or is used oss ? Oct 02 18:44:22 nope Oct 02 18:44:31 it says "Using UNIX configuration..." Oct 02 18:46:15 l0up: i'd first try something less complicated that python first Oct 02 18:46:21 l0up: try mpd :) Oct 02 18:46:53 hmm Oct 02 18:47:49 i need to play and possibly record sounds with my python/pyqt app Oct 02 18:48:31 Qantourisc, I tried killing the processes using the device. One of them was browserd (it looks important yes). Killing it just brought it back again. When I kept repeating `pkill`, the phone rebooted. Does that mean I can never unmount /home successfully ? Oct 02 18:49:19 jacktheripper: if you need to do maintaince i recommend 2 possible ways Oct 02 18:49:20 considering /home holds... half of the binaries? i'd say no Oct 02 18:49:33 jacktheripper: method 1) Boot into a sort of resque mode Oct 02 18:49:47 kerio: the dmse rebooted the device? Oct 02 18:49:50 thought about that, does the N900 even have one ? Oct 02 18:49:53 what's the best way to make my widget to do something everytime SMS is sent? any suggestions what to look for? Oct 02 18:50:04 jacktheripper: method 2) Connect to the computer as a block device, giving full acess to the memory by your computer (if your phone supports this) Oct 02 18:50:14 jacktheripper: and then do the fs2chk from your computer Oct 02 18:50:21 Qantourisc: huh? Oct 02 18:50:26 dolp: there is an app tat responds to calls, you can use what's there to write it to you widget Oct 02 18:50:37 Qantourisc: /home/ is never unmounted on the n900 Oct 02 18:50:40 kerio: hes trying to fs2sch some volumes Oct 02 18:50:41 dolp: pycallblocker is the app'sname , available from extras-testing Oct 02 18:51:14 sivang: thanks.. i'll take a look at it Oct 02 18:51:17 kerio: that's why your need some sort of resque mode, or attach it to your computer as a "usb-disk" (without booting the OS) if the device supports it Oct 02 18:51:30 what device? Oct 02 18:51:31 Qantourisc, I'm actually trying to resize /home. I'm doing the whole e2fsck thing because I lazily unmounted the volume. (parted says it didn't unmount cleanly) Oct 02 18:51:34 aren't we talking about the n900 Oct 02 18:51:46 yes n900 Oct 02 18:51:55 yeah, ass rage only works for MyDocs Oct 02 18:52:02 jacktheripper: if it's ext ... you might be able to do a online resize (if you want it bigger) Oct 02 18:52:49 * RST38h yawns and wonders what to do tonight Oct 02 18:52:49 jacktheripper: i read someone where you had to push a button while connected to the pc while booting so you could update/flash the device, the same method might be used for this but instead of updating messing with it Oct 02 18:53:26 jacktheripper, tsk tsk, you need to be aware which order you are unmounting things - /opt is a mountbind to /home/opt - so if you are trying to unmount home first won't it already be in use/ Oct 02 18:54:20 umounting /opt/ will not go well imo Oct 02 18:54:59 nope, but he can always reflash Oct 02 18:55:31 if that's an option he can use it right now Oct 02 18:55:33 source: "http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware" Oct 02 18:55:41 1) Ensure the battery is fully charged. Oct 02 18:55:45 changing the text file in the eMMC image to make /home/ bigger Oct 02 18:55:46 2) Unplug the USB cable if present, and switch off the device. Oct 02 18:55:53 3) N900: While holding the u key, connect the N900 to your computer via USB. Wait until you see a dim screen on your N900 with a Nokia logo in the middle of your screen with an USB icon in the top right corner. Oct 02 18:56:03 Note: If the USB logo does not appear, and the device turns off - ensure the battery is charged by connecting to the wall charger for an hour and try again. Oct 02 18:56:10 4) You don't need to continue to hold any buttons once flashing starts. Oct 02 18:56:28 hmmm once the flashing starts ? Oct 02 18:56:38 Qantourisc, GTFO the wiki exists so that lot doesn't need to be pasted Oct 02 18:56:52 lcuk: well it's not a exact copy Oct 02 18:56:56 i skipped a few lines Oct 02 18:57:00 because it's to update Oct 02 18:57:06 but if my huntch is right Oct 02 18:57:14 the above will give you access to the disk Oct 02 18:57:24 making whatever jacktheripper is trieing to do easy Oct 02 18:57:29 I hope so. Lemme try. Oct 02 18:57:31 and thanks Oct 02 18:57:39 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools Oct 02 18:57:45 Hi! Oct 02 18:57:56 jacktheripper: ofcours it might not give you access to the disk but only some flasher thing :) you'll have to try and see Oct 02 18:58:05 wazd. Oct 02 18:58:08 jacktheripper: make sure the backup whaver you need back Oct 02 19:00:16 Qantourisc, actually, I think so instructions are only used with flasher Oct 02 19:00:22 s/so/those Oct 02 19:00:32 pitty :/ Oct 02 19:00:50 without some sort of rescue mode or direct disk access this might get tricky Oct 02 19:01:47 Is anyone here, who could give me some hints as to why my maemo-sdk installation refuses to start hildon? Oct 02 19:02:46 The|Avatar, you will have to talk more than that, first time installation? non standard host OS? never installed it? Oct 02 19:02:50 Qantourisc: is it possible to play multiple sounds at the same time with mpd? Oct 02 19:02:59 no Oct 02 19:03:17 but it plays over alsa,oss and plays ogg,mp3,flac,wav,... Oct 02 19:03:22 so it should be a good test Oct 02 19:03:34 l0up: mpd is a media-library-player Oct 02 19:03:50 yeah Oct 02 19:03:59 l0up: i only recommended it because it's a C program with minimal layers allowing you to hopefully find the issue Oct 02 19:04:10 it's also one of the smaller examples i could think of Oct 02 19:04:19 ah, i see Oct 02 19:04:23 lcuk: of course. Second tima actually. Host OS is Kubuntu. Installation wnet without error so far. The toolchains work as well. Start of Xephyr works. ... Oct 02 19:05:03 jacktheripper, if you recall developers of old, they used punch card systems and pre-wrote (carefully) their software before running it. writing a script to do something at system start could be considered a similar task ;) also, there are ways to shut down most of the apps on the system without a reboot Oct 02 19:05:24 lcuk: but when i start af-sb-init.sh start, i get lots of error...mostly like "ailed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory" Oct 02 19:05:44 after a lot of reading i decided vs android or maemo Oct 02 19:06:41 The|Avatar, so the scratchbox install and all toolchains sdks and everything is on and you can build stuff, you just can't run the emulation thingy Oct 02 19:06:43 lcuk, including browserd ? :D do you have any idea what it does when the browser is not running (if it's even related to it) ? Oct 02 19:06:54 lcuk: right Oct 02 19:07:23 jacktheripper, at the very least browserd is waiting Oct 02 19:08:07 The|Avatar, I have never really run anything in the xephyr, but pastebin the errors it gives Oct 02 19:08:15 perhaps someone else who does will recognise it Oct 02 19:12:37 meego looks promossing Oct 02 19:13:09 lcuk: http://pastebin.com/miQVBuYp Oct 02 19:16:23 did anyone notise a "closeing source" trend for maemo ? Oct 02 19:16:34 if not i'm certain of my choice for the future Oct 02 19:17:54 Qantourisc: what will happen with meego on nokia is probably that they'll stick their apps and differentation on top of it, all of it closed source, while contributing to the common platform Oct 02 19:18:33 Qantourisc: contributing to the common platform isn't a small thing though even though it sounds like it :) Oct 02 19:18:52 Qantourisc, it's one of those sick "where're more open here, but less here" trends. Oct 02 19:19:53 hmmmm Oct 02 19:20:02 android i consider "closed" Oct 02 19:20:17 no X11, no default root support, etc Oct 02 19:20:25 <_llll_> maemo is pretty much in no-one's future, right? Oct 02 19:20:30 _llll_: pretty much Oct 02 19:20:39 "in no-one's future" ? Oct 02 19:21:02 <_llll_> if you wnt a long-term platform, it isnt maemo Oct 02 19:21:20 _llll_: so what you recommend ? :) Oct 02 19:21:27 * Stskeeps 'd say meego Oct 02 19:21:29 custom cook ? :) Oct 02 19:21:39 simply because it has the most potential for actual open devices Oct 02 19:21:41 Qantourisc, well, MeeGo is certainly better than that. Oct 02 19:22:02 Qantourisc, the closed stupidity comes from process stuff, and vendor differentiation. Oct 02 19:22:03 well meego sort of is maemo successor as i read it ? Oct 02 19:22:09 Sort of Oct 02 19:22:11 Getting open hardware would be best. Oct 02 19:22:12 <_llll_> dont know, meego is interesting. i'm yet to be convinced until i see a device actually using it though Oct 02 19:22:30 <_llll_> but my n900 does what i need it to do well enough Oct 02 19:22:30 Though MeeGo seems to not want to be dirtied with too close of an association. Oct 02 19:22:31 yea, for me it's to early for a smart phone Oct 02 19:22:38 After that happens the rest doesn't matter. The community can sort out the software stack to run, as was done on the desktop. Oct 02 19:22:40 the market is still relatiliy crap Oct 02 19:22:53 Viiru: i'm pretty happy with the fact i can make phone calls and use a modern UI with redistributable 3d accelerator libs, battery management, wifi and bt firmware.. Oct 02 19:22:56 <_llll_> im more interested in a better battery than a better os Oct 02 19:22:58 Viiru: that's pretty open Oct 02 19:23:21 Stskeeps, redistributable? Oct 02 19:23:22 _llll_: batteries are a hard thing to improve Oct 02 19:23:28 lcuk: yes, hell froze over Oct 02 19:23:29 _llll_: usually it's hardware and software draining it :) Oct 02 19:23:33 Stskeeps: "Redistributable" is enough for open? Actual openness doesn't matter? Oct 02 19:23:35 so does this mean that luke-jr_'s dream of 3d in gentoo can happen? Oct 02 19:23:46 or some such Oct 02 19:23:50 Viiru: considering the current market in ARM, it's good enough for me Oct 02 19:23:52 or is it just "distributable with meego" Oct 02 19:24:09 Stskeeps: Isn't my idea of open hardware. Oct 02 19:24:16 Viiru: alright then, but it's a big step Oct 02 19:24:43 lcuk: if we cut out 'luke-jr' of the equation, then yes - we can't do 'distributable with meego' cos repo.meego.com is mirrored on kernel.org Oct 02 19:24:59 Stskeeps: If you say so. I don't really care how the closed 3d-drivers and assorted firmware get on the device. Oct 02 19:25:02 lcuk: luke-jr would never take dirty blobs Oct 02 19:25:12 ok Stskeeps - but the point reamins Oct 02 19:25:20 'lcuk: so does this mean that luke-jr_'s dream of 3d in gentoo can happen?' ? Oct 02 19:25:28 is it redistributable fully as in they can be used and included (for instance) on debian Oct 02 19:25:37 I know purity issues etc Oct 02 19:25:45 lcuk: yes, go read the licenses Oct 02 19:25:59 nokia bits are distributable for non-commercial purposes Oct 02 19:26:02 which makes sense Oct 02 19:26:11 sgx isn't limited like that Oct 02 19:26:14 just for TI hardware Oct 02 19:26:16 hmm Oct 02 19:26:27 "non-commercial" is still a limitation though Oct 02 19:26:29 it is Oct 02 19:26:45 but it saves worse conditions Oct 02 19:27:09 indeed :) its a good result from your time with the vendor social contract stuff Oct 02 19:27:26 I don't consider the difference between "I downloaded these binary blobs of the net" and "I ripped these binary blobs out of the software that came with the phone" to be in any way meaningful. Oct 02 19:27:29 i'm just happy to be making my own open images i can redistribute without getting sued Oct 02 19:27:39 ok, so thats sgx Oct 02 19:27:46 Viiru, hehe. Oct 02 19:27:47 now if someone wants to post a meego image themselves Oct 02 19:27:54 is that feasible now too? Oct 02 19:28:05 lcuk: yes Oct 02 19:28:14 getting better :D Oct 02 19:28:15 I think that depends a lot on who you're associated with (i.e., meego.com). Oct 02 19:28:34 that shouldnt matter should it GAN900 Oct 02 19:28:36 s/i.e./e.g. Oct 02 19:28:43 someone gets meego running on XYZ hardware Oct 02 19:28:46 lcuk, @ Viiru Oct 02 19:28:48 and wants to post image to help others Oct 02 19:29:02 http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ this is Fenec and not microb right? Oct 02 19:29:24 meego image for n900 is avaible Oct 02 19:29:36 yeah, on repo.meego.com Oct 02 19:30:45 * lcuk will do more reading next week in work time, I am offski for now Oct 02 19:30:47 also, my firmware bin file has SE in the file name, does that mean something? Oct 02 19:31:00 argh, too late, I have to run. Be back later, sorry for asking and going away. Oct 02 19:31:09 gnite folks, enjoy your beers \o Oct 02 19:35:15 moin Oct 02 19:37:58 <_llll_> Qantourisc: stabbing oneself in the eye is also available, is meego any less painful yet? Oct 02 19:38:16 _llll_: doubt it :D Oct 02 19:38:40 <_llll_> hehe Oct 02 19:39:03 i just hope it will be ready by the time i need a smatphone :) Oct 02 19:39:12 and also hope there are cheaper smarthpones then :) Oct 02 19:39:17 right now 500€ =) Oct 02 19:41:17 <_llll_> my n900 was free with a contract Oct 02 19:41:41 oO ? Oct 02 19:41:43 what contract ? Oct 02 19:46:14 My N900 was also "free" Oct 02 19:46:54 not that you dont pay the price back anyway with such contracts :) Oct 02 19:47:03 just in monthly increments Oct 02 19:50:57 and i just looked, i payed ~ eur 400 Oct 02 19:50:58 hehe Oct 02 19:51:07 in belgium how expensive is gprs ? Oct 02 20:17:06 Stskeeps: the blobs are distributable without some EULA clickthrough or such nonsense? Oct 02 20:17:16 luke-jr_: yes Oct 02 20:17:30 MohammadAG, still interested in the n810? Oct 02 20:18:01 kthomas_vh, a bit short on money, so I can't buy it atm :( Oct 02 20:18:07 Stskeeps: where at? Oct 02 20:18:18 Stskeeps: or would I need to put them somewhere? Oct 02 20:18:29 luke-jr_: you okay with rpm format? Oct 02 20:18:35 Stskeeps: rather not :P Oct 02 20:18:44 alas, I'll list it on yad2, probably get more there :) Oct 02 20:18:48 then I need to add DEPEND=rpm2targz Oct 02 20:19:00 luke-jr_: Oct 02 20:19:03 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/non-oss/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/ Oct 02 20:20:07 Stskeeps: no upstream w/ proper tgz or such? Oct 02 20:20:51 luke-jr_: well, TI's own dist or srpm contents Oct 02 20:21:05 Stskeeps: where is TI's copy? Oct 02 20:22:09 Stskeeps: xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx isn't open? so no using it without MeeGo builds of X.org? :/ Oct 02 20:22:53 hrm, come to think of it, that'll be a problem with the GLES libs too, won't it? … Oct 02 20:23:12 luke-jr_: it's open Oct 02 20:23:32 luke-jr_: for technical reasons we have it in non-oss Oct 02 20:23:36 i c Oct 02 20:24:12 srpm should be there, if not, it's a bug Oct 02 20:24:25 it's not in that dir you linked, no Oct 02 20:24:37 what about ABI issues on the other libs? Oct 02 20:25:19 got a recent glibc? Oct 02 20:25:45 dunno, that's the problem Oct 02 20:25:46 Hello world Oct 02 20:25:48 Gentoo could be any glibc :P Oct 02 20:25:51 or uclibc Oct 02 20:25:53 heh Oct 02 20:25:54 or who knows Oct 02 20:26:04 more liekly a problem is GCC version Oct 02 20:26:07 we're on 4.5 Oct 02 20:26:15 4.3 is not ABI compatible with 4.4, and neither of those with 4.5 Oct 02 20:26:18 * timeless_pidgin is about to book an easyjet flight out of manchester Oct 02 20:26:20 Gentoo stable is 4.4 Oct 02 20:26:31 testing is probably 4.5 Oct 02 20:26:45 Gcc.. Linux.. Abi... Very funny Oct 02 20:26:55 tbh, I don't know *any* solution to that short of distributing only code Oct 02 20:26:59 4.5.0 is of course broken Oct 02 20:27:21 even if someone built binaries for each combination, Gentoo has no real way to use them properly Oct 02 20:27:45 Distribute .dll's Oct 02 20:27:58 Let people use winelib to import your portable code Oct 02 20:28:08 Use any compiler you like. Oct 02 20:28:17 Let anyone use any compiler they like Oct 02 20:28:28 Clean. Simple. Hassle free. Oct 02 20:28:46 Objections come from the NIH crowd Oct 02 20:28:51 hmm Oct 02 20:28:57 that's an idea, sortof Oct 02 20:29:10 a .a with some wrappers that use asm to call the real funcs… Oct 02 20:30:03 so dll.s made with diff mingw gcc versions are compatible? Oct 02 20:30:22 didn't mean actual dlls :p Oct 02 20:30:29 heh ok Oct 02 20:34:31 hi. i'm new here. i'd like Oct 02 20:36:21 sorry Oct 02 20:36:22 i'd like to get some help. I'm interested in N900 Oct 02 20:37:11 but am concerned about Nokia's shift to MeeGo. Would you say I should wait for a MeeGo device? Oct 02 20:37:20 Nox: if you provide proper dll runtimes, and properly manage memory, yes Oct 02 20:37:38 Absic: i'm using my n900 right now, in Liverpool Oct 02 20:37:54 I couldn't use a MeeGo device today. It doesn't exist. Oct 02 20:38:26 If you want to wait for an unspecified amount of time for a future product because you have no real pressing need Oct 02 20:38:33 Then waiting makes sense Oct 02 20:38:41 If you have a pressing need Oct 02 20:38:47 Then waiting doesn't make sense Oct 02 20:38:58 absic: as timeless hints, it really depends on what you want Oct 02 20:38:59 You're probably somewhere in between Oct 02 20:39:20 nox-: as long as their api is compatible Oct 02 20:39:25 absic: care to mention why you might want a N900? Oct 02 20:39:52 timeless_pidgin: Thanks. I think I'll just go ahead and get it Oct 02 20:39:58 jacekowski, nice Oct 02 20:40:01 Nox: basically dll's export functions according to a standardize mangling scheme Oct 02 20:40:12 ah didnt know that :) Oct 02 20:40:26 * nox- more a *ix person as you might have guessed... Oct 02 20:40:32 absic: often people who don't have a N900 have misconceptions on what it is capable of, FWIW Oct 02 20:40:34 well, same on *nix Oct 02 20:40:42 You can of course write a dll that *doesn't* work well Oct 02 20:40:45 I like that it is a phone and runs Linux. I am a newbie on the Linux side of things, and I intend to stay by Tux Oct 02 20:40:50 timeless_pidgin: none of these ABI problems have anything to do with mangling Oct 02 20:40:54 But that's independent of everything else. Oct 02 20:40:54 but on *nix people tend to break API a lot often Oct 02 20:41:08 absic: N900 doesn't run Linux any more than Joe Android Phone Oct 02 20:41:14 so if you compile old source with new gcc it will be compatible Oct 02 20:41:40 IMO, it does. Oct 02 20:41:53 Nox: basically you'd want your .dll to link against the msvc6 crt, or to statically link a crt Oct 02 20:42:04 You can get root from the default repo, and then install GCC just by adding another repo. Oct 02 20:42:24 absic: at least not with Maemo; MeeGo might change that Oct 02 20:42:29 timeless_pidgin: could you please alaborate a bit on what you mean about "misconceptions" Oct 02 20:42:32 luke-jr_: it's closer to gnu/linux than android Oct 02 20:42:38 Way closer than android Oct 02 20:42:46 absic: while Nokia isn't officially supporting MeeGo on N900, they *are* paying people to port it Oct 02 20:42:59 jacekowski: X11 isn't GNU Oct 02 20:43:17 yeah, but you have standard libc Oct 02 20:43:20 gnu libc Oct 02 20:43:23 If it statically links against a crt, then it doesn't have problems (in general, minus ensuring you do memory management correctly) Oct 02 20:43:24 with some gnu tools Oct 02 20:43:25 X11 is basically the only notable difference between Android and Maemo Oct 02 20:43:28 and gnu stuff Oct 02 20:43:31 jacekowski: Android doesn't use glibc? Oct 02 20:43:32 luke-jr_: and libc Oct 02 20:43:34 nope Oct 02 20:43:42 no glibc on android Oct 02 20:43:45 o Oct 02 20:43:47 no libc at all Oct 02 20:43:50 wtf? Oct 02 20:43:59 they use their own incompatible implementation Oct 02 20:44:03 gotta have *some* libc Oct 02 20:44:04 called bionic Oct 02 20:44:08 busybox requires a libc Oct 02 20:44:55 absic: lots of people seem to think N900/Maemo is open source. in reality, it's like Mac OS X Oct 02 20:45:13 it's not as bad Oct 02 20:45:14 luke-jr: android doesn't use busybox by default Oct 02 20:45:14 absic: less than half of Maemo is open source, mainly just the parts required to be open source legally Oct 02 20:45:23 b-man`: what's teh CLI then? Oct 02 20:45:30 luke-jr: android it uses it's own called "toolbox' :P Oct 02 20:45:35 luke-jr_: there isn't any Oct 02 20:45:40 luke-jr_: not by defaul Oct 02 20:45:41 built on BSD stuff Oct 02 20:45:53 luke-jr_: and stuff that runs on that phone is ported to bionic Oct 02 20:46:01 luke-jr_: or running on dalvik Oct 02 20:46:25 luke-jr: this is interesting information indeed Oct 02 20:46:41 luke-jr_: dsme is open source Oct 02 20:47:00 modest is open source Oct 02 20:47:03 parts of hildon Oct 02 20:47:12 hmm, what else Oct 02 20:49:38 too bad Swaziland gets devices like these last :( Oct 02 20:50:01 someone has to be last Oct 02 20:51:53 Fwiw, a lot of the stuff that isn't open source isn't worth opening. Oct 02 20:52:03 jacekowski: DSME is only open source after Nokia stripped it of any actual functionality Oct 02 20:52:08 The calculator for instance is closed source iir Oct 02 20:52:24 But you really don't want to see it Oct 02 20:52:27 lol Oct 02 20:52:38 Anyone can make a better one Oct 02 20:53:14 And starting from the maemo one would be like starting 500m behind the starting line for a 100m race Oct 02 20:53:39 Possibly drunk, and likely dizzy Oct 02 20:54:36 in my experience, the biggest problem was getting it to other devices with a small team Oct 02 20:55:16 it doesn't matter that the calculator sucks, but not having one is lame, and re-coding it from scratch is a waste of time when the team is only about 3 people Oct 02 20:55:56 calculator engine is open source Oct 02 20:55:58 In our case, it'd have been better to find an html one and use that Oct 02 20:56:35 both valid points, but I was using it as a general example ;) Oct 02 20:56:48 Cost: 1 man, 1 week to find it. 1 man, 2 weeks to make it internationalized Oct 02 20:57:41 Translating it is handled by another team Oct 02 20:58:10 hi there... Oct 02 20:58:22 can i ask a question about the 770 here ?? Oct 02 20:58:58 yes Oct 02 20:59:18 Johnx: the point is that we sent some team probably of 3 people to make the theming disaster of a calculator. And managed to introduce some calculator bugs Oct 02 20:59:21 Most of us are here for hte n900 though - I don't know how many have a clue Oct 02 20:59:23 And botch the ui Oct 02 20:59:28 trying to connect a usb keyboard. tried 2008HE. using xterm to try to switch to host mode. no luck. Oct 02 20:59:43 ooh ?? right. Oct 02 20:59:48 well.. downgraded now. Oct 02 21:00:01 and the n900 ?? no host mode.. ?? right ?? Oct 02 21:00:08 timeless_pidgin, I actually liked the UI ... :P Oct 02 21:01:01 valgrind: thinkoutside stowaway works pretty well here on 770. Oct 02 21:01:27 So, just as you wanted someone to give you an already-working app, i wanted someone to get us an already-working app. Oct 02 21:01:31 @pupnic I see.. and thats a bluetooth solution ?? Oct 02 21:01:57 @pupnik you still use the 770 ?? Oct 02 21:03:21 @pupnik I came pretty far with getting everything up and running. but the usb hostmode is a struggle. in the hacker edition it seems i run into a hardlink that i cant access even though im root. Oct 02 21:03:58 with my knowledge of unix, i find it confusing that root has less than full access. hmm... Oct 02 21:04:07 hi Oct 02 21:05:12 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=831852 pretty please with sugar on top Oct 02 21:05:14 valgrind:, why? Oct 02 21:05:15 ? Oct 02 21:06:10 valgrind: i haven't done the hostmode myself, so i just wish you good luck. Oct 02 21:06:41 valgrind: MohammadAG made quite a lot of progress with hostmode Oct 02 21:06:48 MohammadAG: what's the status update on that, btw? Oct 02 21:07:18 the patches are sarahn's, I compiled them and released the binaries, as well as the UI to start hostmode, however, it's still in prealpha Oct 02 21:07:36 aah... ?? great :) Oct 02 21:08:06 Huge thanks to DocScrutinizer, sarahn, and the devs involved, I can't take credit for anything except the UI Oct 02 21:08:22 also, thanks to my school for having boring lessons, I couldn't have reproduced it without em Oct 02 21:08:25 @MohammadAG For the 2007 software or the 2008HE ?? Oct 02 21:08:41 hmm? this is about the N900 right? Oct 02 21:08:57 sorry... friend of mine gave me the 770. Its the old 770. Oct 02 21:09:14 apparently not the hottest thing at the bar right now :D Oct 02 21:09:41 i still like the 770 a lot Oct 02 21:09:41 "The old 770"? Oct 02 21:09:51 lol Oct 02 21:09:54 haha.. sorry... Oct 02 21:09:56 it's just that websites suck Oct 02 21:10:02 is there a new one? Oct 02 21:10:18 TiagoTiago: the... n800 770, and the n810 770... Oct 02 21:10:19 im not sure.. give a paintjob perhaps ?? Oct 02 21:11:02 so the n900 is the hot topic. Oct 02 21:11:03 oh? really? i thought it was just N800, N770 being the previous model Oct 02 21:11:20 770,800,810 Oct 02 21:11:33 those are the only predecessors i guess. Oct 02 21:11:41 so there isn't a new 770, no need to say "the old 770" Oct 02 21:11:50 TiagoTiago: it was a joke Oct 02 21:12:02 oh, sorry, i don't get it Oct 02 21:12:06 no problem Oct 02 21:12:10 valgrind: usually irc clients won't highlight on @, please use : or , instead Oct 02 21:12:18 lol Oct 02 21:12:29 N770 doesn't exist Oct 02 21:12:36 it's 770, without the N :P Oct 02 21:12:44 haha.. sorry.. my mistake. like saying "no.. thats my old wife", when you are still with her :D Oct 02 21:12:44 if you must use the @, place a space between it and the nick Oct 02 21:12:57 hm Oct 02 21:13:31 though on IRC @nickname usually means the nick in question has operator powers or somthing Oct 02 21:13:39 ooh.. sorry. been awhile since I used IRC. Oct 02 21:13:45 it's alright Oct 02 21:14:24 valgrind: don't worry, no damage done Oct 02 21:14:29 usually it doesn't come up on chat anyway, just on the list of people currently int he channel, so the meaning doesn't get confused akk that easilly Oct 02 21:14:35 still a great UI though. black, green and blue text. IRC is eyecandy for every penny Oct 02 21:14:37 all* Oct 02 21:14:42 lol Oct 02 21:14:49 depend on what client you're using Oct 02 21:15:08 haha... i want the one with animated GIFs then Oct 02 21:15:16 right now i'm getting grayish-white text on black background Oct 02 21:15:26 the 89 feel :) Oct 02 21:15:50 hmm.. make that 95 Oct 02 21:15:54 :-o so many people.. hello Oct 02 21:16:23 I can write like on burned green phosphor if i want though :P Oct 02 21:16:29 unluckier ?? can i please borrow that nick for my dating profile Oct 02 21:16:37 lol Oct 02 21:16:51 valgrind: =) Oct 02 21:17:13 valgrind: sure, no problem. just don't date where nickserv rules Oct 02 21:17:27 even yellow phosphor Oct 02 21:17:38 ooh.. i would love to see the yellow one Oct 02 21:17:52 your client doesn't do collors? Oct 02 21:17:57 its saturday afterall :) Oct 02 21:18:22 trying Mirc for the first time. guess chatzilla is long gone or out of fashion Oct 02 21:18:30 i'm on it Oct 02 21:18:49 hmmm... on Chrome anyway. Love the way It refuses to crash. Oct 02 21:18:51 have yuo checked X-chat btw? Oct 02 21:18:53 there's something that's been annoying me for a while now.. is there no less for maemo5? Oct 02 21:19:03 aah..x-chat. 32bit client. Oct 02 21:19:04 yes. Oct 02 21:19:14 unluckier: apt-get install less Oct 02 21:19:46 valgrind: chromium crashes on my arm systems quite often, need to make some history files read-only to cope with it Oct 02 21:20:12 TiagoTiago: *blush* damn, so easy. i was sure i tried that already... well, thanks Oct 02 21:20:21 yw Oct 02 21:20:46 mirc is a piece of shit Oct 02 21:20:50 lol Oct 02 21:20:52 lindi: i have had the problem with laptop chrashes. chrome complains about damaged settings file Oct 02 21:21:08 here we go... Geekwar Oct 02 21:21:37 irssi ftw..? =) Oct 02 21:22:12 irssi ? Oct 02 21:22:24 _the_ irc client. Oct 02 21:22:31 totally. Oct 02 21:22:37 ooh... i see. Oct 02 21:23:43 well... irc is good. the gf wont get jaleous because if there are any chicks on irc, they know how to chown Oct 02 21:24:26 irssi is that console based IRC client, right? Oct 02 21:25:20 ~irssi Oct 02 21:25:20 methinks irssi is a modular IRC client for UNIX. See http://irssi.org/, or the door to the 1337 Oct 02 21:25:30 TiagoTiago: it is. Oct 02 21:25:42 hehe, door to the 1337.. Oct 02 21:26:34 does anyone here use khweeteur? does its bit.ly support actually do anything? Oct 02 21:29:54 haha.. Irssi. that is so funky Oct 02 21:30:12 even my Nvidia 8600m GT can run It Oct 02 21:32:34 hmm... so turning on hostmode on a 770. kinda of hopeless considering the fact that the 770 cant deliver power to the keyboard anyway. Oct 02 21:32:49 erhm... Oct 02 21:32:53 hostmode on 770 works fine Oct 02 21:32:59 physicly hack it to make it deliver Oct 02 21:33:11 it does ?? hmm.. okay. Oct 02 21:33:19 johnx: ping Oct 02 21:33:20 with the echo host command ?? Oct 02 21:33:31 crashanddie, pong Oct 02 21:33:41 johnx: valgrind needs some help with the 770 host mode Oct 02 21:33:54 crashanddie, I saw, but I never owned a 770 Oct 02 21:33:59 eh? Oct 02 21:34:05 Oh, you did it with the n800 Oct 02 21:34:07 crap Oct 02 21:34:23 valgrind, the thing to google for might be "power injector 770" Oct 02 21:34:24 good old days.. Oct 02 21:34:38 valgrind: my bad, sorry for the confusion Oct 02 21:34:46 johnx: i installed the 2008HE version, but folderstructure seem different, and there is a hardlink i cant access as root, so i gave up and downgraded to to 2007 os Oct 02 21:35:03 valgrind: a hardlink you can't access as root? Oct 02 21:35:07 valgrind: where does it point to Oct 02 21:35:08 ? Oct 02 21:35:12 valgrind, in either case, you need an external circuit to provide power to the keyboard, I think Oct 02 21:35:24 hmm.. the otg folder i suppose. Oct 02 21:35:46 the guide on Maemo website seems incorrect when on the hacker edition. Oct 02 21:35:48 wouldn't an externally-powered usb hub work? Oct 02 21:36:20 i suppose the usb hub i have works. connected it to a battery delivering 5 volts. Oct 02 21:36:47 so keyboard should be alive. but hostmode is teasing. Oct 02 21:37:00 is there like a way for my widget to monitor sent SMS.. i mean like everytime i send sms my widget should update something Oct 02 21:37:02 don't you need to provide power back to the 770 to actually trigger the chip to go into hostmode? Oct 02 21:37:04 or did that change? Oct 02 21:37:08 so im confused what linus is actually running on the 770 and the 800 Oct 02 21:37:23 dolp: poll the el.db sqlite database Oct 02 21:37:26 the N800 is totally different hardware though... Oct 02 21:37:26 ooh... right.. i read about a otg dongle Oct 02 21:37:55 ooh.. i see. so running the 770 as an 800 will never really be a success. Oct 02 21:38:13 yeah, the N800 *does* provide power on it's USB port Oct 02 21:38:19 explains why pidgin and skype were crashing Oct 02 21:38:26 ooh.. Oct 02 21:38:28 damn Oct 02 21:38:41 well, the CPU is *similar*, but it's a different "motherboard" if you want to think about it that way Oct 02 21:38:43 so getting an n800 would make the whole situation easier. Oct 02 21:38:58 yeah, but the d-pad on the n800 is worse Oct 02 21:39:10 and no cover Oct 02 21:39:16 but the N800 has a stand which is very cool Oct 02 21:39:19 hmm.. the d-pad ?? Oct 02 21:39:37 the direction pad, the arrow keys :) Oct 02 21:39:43 aah... i see. and still a debian sarge cut down to nothing Oct 02 21:40:00 yeah Oct 02 21:40:14 also, it doesn't see a huge amount of active development for it Oct 02 21:40:15 aah.. okay.. dont use them. i just want to use the 770 for writing at my coffeebar. thought it would be cool. Oct 02 21:40:46 haha... what ?? how can an iPad be cooler than my 770 ?? tsk... Oct 02 21:41:11 considering all the effort done on the N900 and the technology used, the could totally have added a 5way mouse controller thingy (either an optical trackball, or somthing like a little glass nub extending the touch sensitivity o fthe screen) Oct 02 21:41:52 it's coller 'cause it isn't running anything, without eating energy flipping lots of bits little heat is generated :P Oct 02 21:41:53 so the n900 is cool ? but how does that allow an external keyboard ?? Oct 02 21:42:36 haha.. true.. that is what cool actually means. Oct 02 21:42:43 :P Oct 02 21:42:53 to run a keyboard off the N800, you need: USB female host-A to USB male mini-B Oct 02 21:43:05 and a keyboard that takes less than 100mA Oct 02 21:43:10 or a bluetooth keyboard Oct 02 21:43:34 wow.. okay. that means the 770 is a dissater with keyboards unless using bluetooth. Oct 02 21:43:36 * MohammadAG ran a 200mA flash on the N900 Oct 02 21:43:57 even though the limit is 100, we just commented it out of the kernel Oct 02 21:44:14 MohammadAG, I think there's a way to tell the N800 to disable power restrictions which lets you get up to 200mA Oct 02 21:44:23 but for devices 100mA or under it "just works" (tm) Oct 02 21:44:28 would it b e possible to add a MITM thingy with double-As that sends power to the plugged device? Oct 02 21:45:59 TiagoTiago, sure, but the keyboard would still say to the N800 over usb "I need 250mA" and the N800 would refuse Oct 02 21:46:14 so, what you want is a usb hub with batteries in it Oct 02 21:46:18 cyberpower makes one Oct 02 21:46:50 yeah, i was thinking of somthing like that, though not necessarilly made on a factory Oct 02 21:47:27 would the hub let two devices talk with eachother isntead of going down towards the host wire? Oct 02 21:47:36 nope Oct 02 21:47:40 that's not the way USB works Oct 02 21:48:09 USB is only host<->device, not device<->device or host<->host Oct 02 21:48:17 in my head it was all a single piece of metal that shared the pulses from all devices Oct 02 21:48:37 and the devices just waited for their turn before sending their own pulses Oct 02 21:48:47 it's a shame 1394 isn't more widespread... Oct 02 21:49:24 isn't that how ethernet over powerline works? Oct 02 21:51:46 that's probably a TEMPEST nightmare though Oct 02 21:53:04 TiagoTiago, yeah, that's how an ethernet *hub* works Oct 02 21:53:49 which is faster, USb or ethernet? Oct 02 21:53:50 johnx: or thinnet Oct 02 21:54:01 I just found an easy way to repartition the n900. It's using the meego rescue initrd, do I post it to wiki ? Oct 02 21:54:19 TiagoTiago, gigE is faster than usb Oct 02 21:54:27 that was pretty much "every device is connected to a pair of conductors and waits to talk" Oct 02 21:54:56 TiagoTiago, (and also more reliable in my experience...) Oct 02 21:54:59 i've never seen usb go faster than good ol fast ethernet in real lif conditions.. Oct 02 21:55:04 BCMM, or wifi ;) or the original "ethernet" :D Oct 02 21:55:17 why USB is seen as better than ethernet? Oct 02 21:55:18 TiagoTiago: wtf? Oct 02 21:55:26 original ethernet before my time, but my parents used to have thinnet Oct 02 21:55:28 USB is inherently bad design Oct 02 21:55:30 oh unluckier i have seen some 20 MB/sec before... Oct 02 21:55:36 compared to almost anything Oct 02 21:55:43 I have my / on USB. Oct 02 21:55:50 It goes at 30MB/s Oct 02 21:55:56 luke-jr_, usb is desingned to be as cheap as possible i think Oct 02 21:55:57 it's not really a limitation for me. Oct 02 21:55:58 SpeedEvil: at the expense of CPU time Oct 02 21:56:06 luke-jr: to a small degree. Oct 02 21:56:11 large* Oct 02 21:56:17 better than root on NFS :P Oct 02 21:56:32 johnx: invalid comparison Oct 02 21:56:40 ATA over Ethernet is valid Oct 02 21:56:41 the cpu time is the big deal here - USB (rather than firewire) is basically a false economy, unless you use it infrequently Oct 02 21:56:58 don't forget eSATA ;) Oct 02 21:57:00 *nod* Oct 02 21:57:07 ATA over ethernet.. Oct 02 21:57:21 layer violation much? Oct 02 21:57:26 in firewire, the hardware does a lof ot suff for itself, whereas in USB it's practically all done by the CPU Oct 02 21:57:30 but whatever work i guess. Oct 02 21:57:37 which makes the hardware cheaper until you realise you need a faster CPU Oct 02 21:57:51 i've seen people using cat5 cables as USB extensions Oct 02 21:57:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_over_Ethernet Oct 02 21:57:59 unluckier: I don't see how it's a layer violation Oct 02 21:58:15 unluckier, there also is iscsi... Oct 02 21:58:16 it's as if everybody is using winmodems now Oct 02 21:58:16 from what've read it seems to work much better than official USB cables, and they are much cheaper for the meter Oct 02 21:58:26 well said BCMM Oct 02 21:58:55 luke-jr: USB uses basically twicer that of sata. Oct 02 21:59:04 luke-jr: based on idle time and dd Oct 02 21:59:14 okay, it really is on the ethernet layer. so it isn't a layer violation, sry Oct 02 21:59:33 still feels weird Oct 02 21:59:38 lol Oct 02 22:00:10 why cable TV doesn't use plugs like thinnet? Oct 02 22:00:11 yay, did my first .deb package and got myself screen working :) Oct 02 22:00:30 yay! Oct 02 22:01:08 USB is more popular than firewire primarily because Intel pushed it, which is unsurprising, since it encourages CPU upgrades Oct 02 22:01:57 dRbiG: GNU screen? Oct 02 22:02:35 screen? i want that too Oct 02 22:03:10 (the software that beat Windows' record for "most ambigious name") Oct 02 22:03:13 BCMM, well, that and it's cheaper since the controllers are much simpler. Oct 02 22:03:26 lol Oct 02 22:03:33 Since it doesn't do much. Oct 02 22:03:47 the people who write firewire drivers say firewire is a nightmare Oct 02 22:03:50 GAN900: as i said, so are softmodems, but that doesn't mean people like them Oct 02 22:03:57 BCMM: dunno, there's also the added benefit of an abundance of really cheap devices. Oct 02 22:04:15 hmmm Oct 02 22:04:33 that helps any technology take off, abundance of cheap stuff :) Oct 02 22:04:34 i actually don't know how much difference it makes to the price of, say, a mass-storage device Oct 02 22:04:52 BCMM: yes Oct 02 22:05:00 what would happen if i wired a LED directly to the USB port of the N900? Oct 02 22:05:02 screen 4.0.3 Oct 02 22:05:11 TiagoTiago, depends on the led Oct 02 22:05:18 (since, unlike a PC, then don't already have a processor sitting around waiting to handle low-level protocol crap) Oct 02 22:05:33 TiagoTiago: and how you wire it :) Oct 02 22:05:43 a 5mil hiugh intensity Oct 02 22:05:57 TiagoTiago, a Cree XRE/XPG or SSC P4 will probably blink briefly before N900 voltage booster shuts down due to overload Oct 02 22:05:57 lets say i wire it in in the way the electricity flows Oct 02 22:06:03 why would you want to wire a led to usb port? ;) Oct 02 22:06:08 TiagoTiago: In principle, you coild - if you added a resisrtor - trurn it on and off using the vboost option. Oct 02 22:06:15 blinkenlights :P Oct 02 22:06:15 a 5millimeter one is probably going to shine angry blue for a few seconds before popping, or N900 shutting off voltage Oct 02 22:06:22 dRbiG: awesome, are you putting it into a repo? i want screen Oct 02 22:06:56 the N900 needs moar blinkenlights Oct 02 22:07:01 (see? like "windows", it makes me sound ungrammatical and cavemanish: "i want screen") Oct 02 22:07:05 BCMM: hmm, i'm not yet at the level of investigating methods of contributing stuff; i'm at the level of making stuff i need work Oct 02 22:07:11 fair enough Oct 02 22:07:37 but i can put it on my server and give you a link to the plain .deb if you like Oct 02 22:07:50 but no warranties, it start and seems to work :) Oct 02 22:08:00 what does it do? Oct 02 22:08:14 dRbiG: does it have nethack mode? :) Oct 02 22:08:21 TiagoTiago: enables you to have multiple terminal sessions Oct 02 22:08:37 unluckier: it has all that a plain vanilla screen 4.0.3 has - no idea about nethack :) Oct 02 22:08:44 without using the factory terminal emulator? Oct 02 22:08:45 if it all works is another thing Oct 02 22:08:54 TiagoTiago: in text mode :) Oct 02 22:09:01 i see Oct 02 22:09:06 handy Oct 02 22:09:07 i wanted tmux Oct 02 22:09:13 but i have some problems with glib Oct 02 22:09:18 as usual, linux crap ;) Oct 02 22:09:20 TiagoTiago: basically, you run screen at the console or in xterm or something, and it gives you multiple virtual terminals you can use Oct 02 22:09:47 oh, it's not actually multiple terminals, it's multiple terminals inside of a single terminal? Oct 02 22:09:55 TiagoTiago: so that you can use "ctrl-a space" a bit like alt-tab Oct 02 22:09:58 for any hacking/developement i need to have more than one terminal session and i don't like having like 8x putty Oct 02 22:10:03 screen is better way Oct 02 22:10:05 TiagoTiago: it's sorta like a window manager, for text mode Oct 02 22:10:23 BCMM: tmux is more of a wm in ncurses Oct 02 22:10:41 but as i said, to get tmux some work is actually needed Oct 02 22:10:48 to be done on it Oct 02 22:10:57 but it runs inside a terminal, like i could hit control-shift-x type screen, and in that single window there would be multiple terminals acessible? Oct 02 22:11:02 TiagoTiago: for example, you have vim open, you want to go and ls some dir somewhere, so you use the keyboard shortcut for a new "window", causing vim to vanish and a shell to appear Oct 02 22:11:17 then you can use another key combo to switch between that shell and your vim session Oct 02 22:11:34 text based multitasking Oct 02 22:11:36 TiagoTiago: exactly Oct 02 22:12:11 TiagoTiago: you can also close xterm, open a new xterm, and reconnect to your screen session with your stuff still running Oct 02 22:12:18 it is GREAT for ssh over an unreliable connection Oct 02 22:12:27 that is awesmoe Oct 02 22:12:36 it is a must have anywhere Oct 02 22:12:55 my tmux sessions usually have uptime close to the server uptime :) Oct 02 22:13:02 it kidna creates a server terminal output that you can connect to with multiple clients, or disconnect and keep it running Oct 02 22:13:04 ? Oct 02 22:13:17 TiagoTiago: multiple clients at once only in tmux :) Oct 02 22:13:22 screen is older Oct 02 22:13:23 i see Oct 02 22:13:32 and simpler Oct 02 22:13:39 but it does the job well too Oct 02 22:14:03 i'm just not sure if screen handles unicode Oct 02 22:14:08 dRbiG: screen -x allows multiple clients? Oct 02 22:14:31 dRbiG, pretty sure it does Oct 02 22:14:39 lindi-: maybe it does - i migareted from it to tmux about 1.5 year ago Oct 02 22:15:21 oh, and also, you can let your irc session running on some computer whereever and achieve spectacular idle times! Oct 02 22:15:41 it does allow multiple clients of course Oct 02 22:15:44 * DocScrutinizer pokes DocScrutinizer51 Oct 02 22:15:47 and searching in the scrollback Oct 02 22:16:04 no screen & irssi session though :-P Oct 02 22:16:09 johnx: two or more clients connected to the same session? Oct 02 22:16:35 * BCMM_ curses his wireless Oct 02 22:16:47 dRbiG, of course. with different window sizes, updated in real time Oct 02 22:16:58 * johnx *lives* in screen all day Oct 02 22:16:59 johnx: right. so same as tmux Oct 02 22:17:02 dRbiG: BCMM really need his screen Oct 02 22:17:09 hah Oct 02 22:17:16 johnx: oh, and unicode support? Oct 02 22:17:25 unluckier: i don't have anywhere with a better connection to run an irc client on Oct 02 22:17:30 dRbiG, again, I'm almost positive it does. but I could check Oct 02 22:17:35 BCMM: oh. Oct 02 22:17:50 and i think screen can show more than one window at once, but i don't know how Oct 02 22:17:58 johnx: if it does then i have no real need to put any effort into getting tmux on n900 Oct 02 22:18:08 it's kinda like vim, in that it does a whole lot of cool thing, and i know how some of them work Oct 02 22:18:45 johnx: hmm, utf8 doesn't seem to be available under screen on n900 - but the problem can be somewhere else, it's n900 :) Oct 02 22:19:00 dRbiG, nevermind. guess it doesn't (at least in my config) Oct 02 22:19:10 "tmux is intended to be a modern, BSD-licensed alternative to programs such as GNU screen." (from the tmux website) - seems like they're pretty much equivalent Oct 02 22:19:31 afir lack of unicode support was the main reason why i switched Oct 02 22:20:03 bummer Oct 02 22:20:06 dRbiG: man screen, specifically -U Oct 02 22:20:40 looks like unicode support is off by default, in case your terminal doesn't support it, but you can enable it with -U Oct 02 22:21:10 BCMM: great, 'll check it Oct 02 22:22:01 dRbiG: i get the impression tmux exists primarly because it's really useful to have that sort of thing, and the BSD folk don't like having GNU screen Oct 02 22:22:10 "tmux is part of the OpenBSD base system." Oct 02 22:22:16 my client runs in screen.. give me unicode. .... Oct 02 22:22:16 * DocScrutinizer picks up a screen session on a shell box, to see what's going on there since he left 3 weeks ago :-D Oct 02 22:22:56 BCMM: afair when tmux was started screen had no unicode, and tmux was rewritten from scratch and optimized, and yes it had BSD licences Oct 02 22:23:07 which is very important in business world :) Oct 02 22:23:14 BCMM: oh, openbsd. yes, that explains a lot. Oct 02 22:23:34 screen -U and works! :D Oct 02 22:23:46 great, now i can write all languages at once hehe Oct 02 22:25:23 dRbiG: i imagine you have a large number of bluetooth keyboard that you carry in a backpack Oct 02 22:25:34 in different alphabets Oct 02 22:26:03 hehe, why would i need that, when i can simply switch the language in windows ;D Oct 02 22:26:41 although i do miss the russian phonetic mapping available for X Oct 02 22:27:05 much easier than their layout, well Oct 02 22:27:36 screen though has been developed 15km from here, will stay with screen and pass them a beer when I come along eventually. Who needs BSD licence? Oct 02 22:28:33 :) Oct 02 22:29:46 hmm Oct 02 22:29:53 DocScrutinizer: give them one from me too. ah, get them drunk and force them to defend their license choice =) Oct 02 22:29:53 does tmux do multiple connections? Oct 02 22:30:08 dRbiG: what's windows? Oct 02 22:30:30 BCMM: windows, as in ms windows ;) Oct 02 22:30:47 heh, i remember windows Oct 02 22:31:39 * DocScrutinizer opens windows to get some fresh air Oct 02 22:31:46 DocScrutinizer: good idea Oct 02 22:36:22 my first ever wiki edit is Solution #6 here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash Can anyone check it and point me out if I've done something wrong ? Oct 02 22:45:24 in the n900, is there a keystroke combination that does the same as Alt-Tab to cycle through the windows? Oct 02 22:45:34 is there a GUI for DOSBOX ont he N900 like there is on Windows? Oct 02 22:46:16 ctrl-backspace is closest Oct 02 22:46:20 jpinx, no, only ctrl+backspace to get the list of apps, but no cycling Oct 02 22:46:56 unless you install modified-hildon-desktop Oct 02 22:48:21 jpinx-eeepc: see matan's modified hildon-desktop Oct 02 22:48:50 DocScrutinizer: where do I see that? Oct 02 22:49:23 http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html Oct 02 22:49:34 tks :) Oct 02 22:50:51 jpinx-eeepc: /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav : ctrl+backspace behaves like alt-tab on desktop (at least on KDE). While ctrl is pressed, every press of backspace rotates the windows Oct 02 22:51:30 s/ : / : 5* / Oct 02 22:51:32 DocScrutinizer meant: jpinx-eeepc: /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav : 5* ctrl+backspace behaves like alt-tab on desktop (at least on KDE). While ctrl is pressed, every press of backspace rotates the windows Oct 02 22:52:09 DocScrutinizer, I wonder if we should make control panel applets of those Oct 02 22:52:27 to make setting them up easier Oct 02 22:52:31 * DocScrutinizer mumbles "tweakr" Oct 02 22:53:03 * MohammadAG wants to add portrait support to some stock apps Oct 02 22:53:09 control panel and modest would be two Oct 02 22:53:24 :) a modest patch would be awesome Oct 02 22:53:41 the control panel is open source right? Oct 02 22:53:54 i believe so Oct 02 22:53:55 * DocScrutinizer wants to install mhd without losing SSU compatibility and cpu hog fix Oct 02 22:54:00 individual applets may not be Oct 02 22:54:00 * crashanddie just spent the evening curing olives Oct 02 22:54:27 :) crashanddie Oct 02 22:54:36 anyway, for the second time tonight, gnite \o Oct 02 22:54:41 'nite Oct 02 22:54:53 We gathered 7kg worth of olives from the garden Oct 02 22:55:30 Fun. Oct 02 22:55:51 modest would benefit greatly from portrait mode, especially for reading longs emails or looking down large folders Oct 02 22:55:53 I got 20Kg of rasps, 10Kg of assorted other mixed fruit, and 60Kg of apples. Oct 02 22:55:55 tomorrow i gotta vote, i got no idea who is less worse, gonna probably vote null :( Oct 02 22:56:09 TiagoTiago: for what? Oct 02 22:56:10 SpeedEvil1: I live in a city :P Oct 02 22:56:31 SpeedEvil1: and olive trees that produce anything need to be at least 20-30 years old Oct 02 22:56:36 I know Oct 02 22:56:40 and the raspberry jam is AWESOME :-D Oct 02 22:56:44 :) Oct 02 22:56:45 president, governor, and some and a couple senators or congresspeople Oct 02 22:57:19 TiagoTiago: which country? Oct 02 22:57:20 \s\and some and\and\ Oct 02 22:57:24 Brazil Oct 02 22:57:50 thing is, it'll take about 2 to 3 months for the olives to be ready for consumption Oct 02 22:58:05 what i did wrong witht he s thing there? Oct 02 22:58:20 crashanddie: what do you have to do to olives to make them edible? Oct 02 22:58:29 let them piccle? Oct 02 22:58:33 there's a few ways Oct 02 22:58:49 also, which part of the world do you live in? Oct 02 22:58:55 south of france Oct 02 22:59:09 BCMM: usually you have to let them "unbitter" in water or brine for a month Oct 02 22:59:20 all i have is a windowsill in a flat in the UK, but i grow chillis Oct 02 22:59:28 * jpinx-eeepc grew olives in Spain... Oct 02 22:59:51 crashanddie: oh, there i was thinking they were always in brine to keep longer Oct 02 23:00:43 well, the brine prevents them from rotting I guess as well Oct 02 23:03:17 one third of the batch is being cured in brine, the other two thirds are in clear water Oct 02 23:03:24 (and they're green olives) Oct 02 23:07:17 Is pressing oil easy? Oct 02 23:07:45 no idea, never done that Oct 02 23:09:04 not something I'm interested in anyway -- good oil requires very good olives and very good technique Oct 02 23:09:35 This is just for snacks and salads Oct 02 23:10:22 ah Oct 02 23:13:13 evening Oct 02 23:13:38 is this a new thing for the device to have downloads.maemo.nokia.com instead of good 'o repository. ? Oct 02 23:13:43 evening Oct 02 23:13:47 hey kthomas_vh ! Oct 02 23:13:50 kthomas_vh: how you been? Oct 02 23:13:51 howdy Oct 02 23:14:01 buzy! Oct 02 23:14:07 you? Oct 02 23:14:10 "good 'o"? Oct 02 23:15:19 crashanddie: well, what made a switch happen? is it the same? and while http://wiki.maemo.org/Developer_FAQ#How_do_I_enable_extras.2C_extras-testing.2C_and_extras-devel_in_Scratchbox suggests using repo for sb, can I use d.m.n.c instead? Oct 02 23:15:39 kthomas_vh: busy as well, but with scartchbox, c++, qt and a lot of Maemo :) Oct 02 23:15:49 kthomas_vh: it was a long long weekend here so got a lot of time Oct 02 23:15:55 I was questioning the spelling, not the accuracy. Oct 02 23:16:23 crashanddie: oh :) Oct 02 23:16:37 crashanddie: good old, in a shortened, sothern accent way Oct 02 23:16:53 "good ol'", then, not "good 'o" Oct 02 23:17:17 or "good ole" Oct 02 23:17:22 sivang, unfortunately, here, tasks tend to eat up time :) Oct 02 23:17:37 kthomas_vh: may I ask what's your trade? Oct 02 23:18:29 SpeedEvil: i don't know about olive oil production either, but it must be pretty labour-intensive, since i've seen people use camels to do the grinding bit Oct 02 23:19:09 crashanddie: I found, so it is still using repo for only for non nokia stuff, or apps that are part of the SSU, I guess it always was llike this, and adding them to sb will make no sense because it is rare they will have sources published at that repo etc. Oct 02 23:19:37 sivang: that would be my suspicion as well. Oct 02 23:20:14 sivang, I have a few hats, but mostly these days for $ I program the hard parts of Drupal websites, and provide Drupal consulting Oct 02 23:20:46 kthomas_vh, fun, fun. :) I bet that's fun about half the time and maddening the other half Oct 02 23:21:08 johnx, that's probably the actual ration Oct 02 23:21:30 *ratio; more often than not, maddening seems more than 3/4ths Oct 02 23:22:09 well, you have clients thrown in. most of my drupal work is internal to one company and I get to do the 'simple' drupal stuff as well Oct 02 23:22:28 kthomas_vh: ah right you told me already, so you worked during the holiday? Oct 02 23:23:06 kthomas_vh: php.... I used to work for Zend once Oct 02 23:23:48 sivang, I tried to avoid any task that I considered actual work, but ... Oct 02 23:24:01 well... Oct 02 23:24:30 crashanddie: I wonder if it is possible to get the media player source off the apps SSU etc, probably not Oct 02 23:24:42 nope Oct 02 23:24:43 :) Oct 02 23:24:44 we had actually just finished a project in the US, with was a bear at the end, so I was mostly wiped out from that Oct 02 23:24:48 is it based on/open progam? Oct 02 23:25:05 kthomas_vh: ah.. bear? Oct 02 23:25:09 Don't think so Oct 02 23:25:45 difficult; subversion repo was down for more than 12 of the final hours, for instance Oct 02 23:25:58 kthomas_vh: oh bad, you should have failovers Oct 02 23:26:55 I'll try to get the project manager to convey that to the government entity we were working for :P Oct 02 23:26:55 kthomas_vh: and the repo replicated over them Oct 02 23:29:33 crashanddie: they are also protected by a password that the on device HAM/apt uses to access. odd Oct 02 23:30:41 kthomas_vh: the project manager shouldn't be the one designing redundancy. If he is, you're at one helluva shit company. Oct 02 23:31:02 crashanddie, heh Oct 02 23:31:05 I've seen worse Oct 02 23:31:20 in this case, we're subcontracting to a gov't department Oct 02 23:31:33 their sysadmins design systems (or not) Oct 02 23:31:48 we take what we get and have no rel'n except through the PM Oct 02 23:31:49 oh they're the best- Oct 02 23:31:58 they like to have meeting on top of meetings on top of meetings. Oct 02 23:32:08 ;) Oct 02 23:32:11 can we have a meeting about that? Oct 02 23:32:18 kthomas_vh: excatly/1 Oct 02 23:32:54 kthomas_vh: I was once having 3 weeks in a row of meeting to convince the PM that we can port or find better version and support of stuff in Monta Vista in plain Debian Oct 02 23:33:23 yick Oct 02 23:34:55 I was had 2 months of waiting for a 5 day development Oct 02 23:35:03 s/was/once Oct 02 23:35:18 "Client hasn't paid the bills" Oct 02 23:35:52 heh Oct 02 23:36:11 that's better than continuing to work for a client who will never pay, I guess Oct 02 23:36:37 well, when you look at the credit lines our companies used to have, we were surprised they ever paid Oct 02 23:36:56 ha Oct 02 23:36:59 A big british telecom company once had over 3M pounds in credit. Oct 02 23:37:27 with your employer? could be reasonable, could be not Oct 02 23:37:41 and that was just the software, hardware they usually paid for promptly Oct 02 23:37:54 ah Oct 02 23:38:09 * kthomas_vh feels a US joke coming on Oct 02 23:38:35 I got nothing. Oct 02 23:40:46 * DocScrutinizer51 is watchin Brazil :-) Oct 02 23:44:04 Brazil is great Oct 03 01:28:18 What is "toggle composite mode" control-shift-N ? Oct 03 01:38:40 * ieatlint always liked the man pages for true and false: "true - do nothing, successfully" and "false - do nothing, unsuccessfully" Oct 03 01:39:26 lol Oct 03 01:57:21 : is even better, it doesn't even have a manpage **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 03 02:59:57 2010