**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 06 02:59:57 2010 Oct 06 03:01:44 anyone here who uses mugen battery ...? Oct 06 03:07:02 what is that Oct 06 03:11:08 rokr1, you know that actually has the potential to waste more power, right? Oct 06 03:12:11 rokr1, since the transmission time is actually a very small percentage of the total power usage of the WiFi chipset. Oct 06 03:13:01 rokr1, so setting it lower doesn't actually save power. Oct 06 03:13:31 If retranmission needs to happen (as it likely will with such low radio power) you'll use more power. Oct 06 03:29:17 i understand what u r telling me GAN900 Oct 06 03:32:48 i am almost close to the router so no point of retransmission and there is less interference because there are almost no wifi AP around Oct 06 03:33:37 technically there is less frame drops Oct 06 03:34:03 and i use best firmware for my router (Tomato).... Oct 06 03:34:16 lol Oct 06 03:34:17 stock firmware's suck Oct 06 03:34:25 as if Tomato is better than OpenWrt Oct 06 03:34:26 :p Oct 06 03:34:38 yes Oct 06 03:34:44 i can prove it Oct 06 03:35:47 nope Oct 06 03:36:56 okie openWRT fan Oct 06 03:37:09 its N900 IRC room Oct 06 03:37:48 so no alternate firmware ICBM over here Oct 06 03:38:03 to fight with Oct 06 03:41:22 hello all Oct 06 03:41:41 hello to u too Oct 06 03:42:14 \ Oct 06 03:53:34 someone connected to irc with n900? :) Oct 06 03:54:03 y ? Oct 06 03:54:35 I am :P Oct 06 03:55:07 great now type u text in the small tingy wingy keyboard Oct 06 03:55:40 great now type ur text in the small tingy wingy keyboard Oct 06 03:55:41 It's no problem to me :P Oct 06 03:55:56 :P :P :P Oct 06 03:55:59 I have a more practice :) Oct 06 03:56:06 that was late Oct 06 03:56:45 so wat brings u here ?? Oct 06 03:57:46 nothing, i dont think about maemo channel :P Oct 06 03:58:14 I looking for some channels and find this one Oct 06 03:58:33 haha cool, how do you use irc on maemo anyways? Oct 06 03:59:26 so... there a two options Oct 06 03:59:29 i mean it's not built in is it? Oct 06 03:59:36 no Oct 06 03:59:47 repository? Oct 06 04:00:18 1st option - irssi installed on debian Oct 06 04:00:37 2nd - xchat installed with app menager Oct 06 04:00:47 easy debian, or u mean recompiled from debian Oct 06 04:00:57 easy Oct 06 04:00:59 i see Oct 06 04:01:08 lift me up ... let me go ooh Oct 06 04:01:27 is it easy to use either one, or hard? some apps i find hard to use because they are not designed for touch interface Oct 06 04:01:30 every thing easy Oct 06 04:01:38 the easyest way is xchat Oct 06 04:01:57 yes, every Oct 06 04:02:40 cool, yeah if its in the repositories i'll have to try that. will the freenode servers work without IDENT or whatever? i noticed they don't let my desktop connect all the time, it takes many retries Oct 06 04:02:45 but i think the ident is working... Oct 06 04:03:22 I prefere skype included to maemo, works great Oct 06 04:03:40 xchat is stable one and work good on n900 Oct 06 04:04:11 yeah i laughed when i saw android got skype yesterday Oct 06 04:04:16 although maybe theirs is better Oct 06 04:04:25 we still had it for the whole time Oct 06 04:09:21 bye bye Oct 06 04:10:20 skype in n900 working perfect Oct 06 04:10:21 bye Oct 06 04:10:23 a Oct 06 04:10:57 i use it with cam, its great Oct 06 04:11:12 ok, time for me, bye everyone... Oct 06 04:11:24 i will be back soon i think :) Oct 06 04:14:58 wtf is with planet maemo? last week we had chinese post, now spanish (portugese?) one... Oct 06 04:15:51 oh, even two of them Oct 06 04:17:03 that's portuguese yea Oct 06 04:20:53 do you really think any considerable amount of maemo users knows these exotic languages? Oct 06 04:22:44 i never even heard of planet maemo Oct 06 04:23:33 probably no, there should be an additional tag required like maemo+english, I can understand it though :P the Ubuntu and gnome planet have the same problems, some people keep asking to bloggers to remove non-english and non-ubuntu related posts, but they claim the planet is about the people working on Ubuntu, not ubuntu directly, or something like that. Oct 06 04:26:59 bef0rd: well, being slightly offtopic is okay, but portugese??? Oct 06 04:27:19 hehe Oct 06 04:28:41 and that chinese post was removed. no idea what it was talking about Oct 06 04:29:33 anyone know the proper name for the cell radio signal strength? Oct 06 04:29:56 or at least a suggestion that isn't bad Oct 06 04:32:51 next post should either be in klingon or higher elven Oct 06 04:33:01 like should i call it GSM_radio_dBm or ?? Oct 06 04:34:46 CreamyG, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_signal Oct 06 04:35:32 yeah well i'm asking if the protocol is always gsm on the n900 or i should call it "Cell" or something else if it isn't Oct 06 04:36:04 i dont' like writing code that makes me look stupid :P Oct 06 04:36:19 GSM when working on 2G and UMTS for 3G I belive Oct 06 04:36:22 believe* Oct 06 04:37:50 yeah i was afraid of something like that... okay, cell radio it is! Oct 06 04:44:48 bef0rd: GSM/GPRS for 2G, or WCDMA/UMTS for 3G Oct 06 04:47:31 yeah i needed something generic to refer to both, but not so generic as to be confused with wifi radio... Oct 06 05:03:42 CreamyG: what's the difference? ;) Oct 06 05:03:59 big-corporation-service-only? Oct 06 05:07:29 closed-source radio Oct 06 05:18:11 hahah, just read a bash post with RST38h and lcuk in it...http://bash.org/?884782 Oct 06 05:46:11 * slonopotamus summons khertan Oct 06 05:48:52 * ieatlint summons kittens Oct 06 05:49:08 meow Oct 06 06:02:57 lol that bash quote is funny, i've seen it before too Oct 06 06:03:31 those bastards never update hardly anymore Oct 06 06:03:58 either that or there is nobody funny on irc anymore Oct 06 06:08:59 hmm "It's not just you! http://forum.meego.com looks down from here." and "It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here." Oct 06 06:09:06 CreamyG, 20774 quotes approved; 6081 quotes pending Oct 06 06:09:28 yeah both are down apparently Oct 06 06:10:02 oo, now I get a database error! Intriguing! Oct 06 06:15:06 WONTFIX Oct 06 06:15:14 just kidding Oct 06 06:15:18 WORKSFORME Oct 06 06:24:00 :) Oct 06 06:28:46 I've never really bothered with syncing stuff here and there but I was wondering, do we have SyncML support on N900? Oct 06 06:31:14 well i'm sure there is but i would be surprised if it works 100% Oct 06 06:32:01 this phone constantly un-merges contacts on me and every sync app i've used has some missing features Oct 06 06:32:48 CreamyG, does the unmerging have to do with syncing somehow? Mine has never unmerged anything Oct 06 06:33:48 I would like to sync calendars somewhere. Oct 06 06:34:34 probably, i dunno. it seems to split off duplicate facebook or msn ones for no reason Oct 06 06:34:55 the calendar syncs fine with google and you can sync outlook to google Oct 06 06:35:37 i think i just used the exchange protocol and i cant enable contacts or tasks or something. i disabled them anyways. Oct 06 06:46:07 god this code sucks, it's as if they removed the comments before making it "open source" Oct 06 06:47:14 ..you think corporate code has comments? Oct 06 06:49:43 its not nokia it's source for something else... Oct 06 06:50:04 i made tea like 2 hours ago, crap... 1am... Oct 06 06:50:12 better drink it anyways Oct 06 06:52:39 at least it's extra strong from steeping for 2 hrs Oct 06 07:03:39 mm, tea Oct 06 07:15:53 Noes, missing man page for vi Oct 06 07:16:04 * FIQ|n900 google Oct 06 07:16:08 What version of qt mobility do we have on N900 right now? Oct 06 07:21:06 FIQ|n900: no man in the n900 :( Oct 06 07:21:24 sudo apt-get install man Oct 06 07:29:17 * RST38h moos Oct 06 07:30:12 RST38h, m00f Oct 06 07:30:33 * johnx takes a break from other projects, makes himself a proper X Terminal Oct 06 07:31:41 Not proper unless it has SUN label =) Oct 06 07:32:12 * johnx sighs about SUN, starts thinking about SGI Oct 06 07:32:19 I have an O2 somewhere ... Oct 06 07:32:28 yes but can you stand Irix? Oct 06 07:32:43 I think I put Linux on it or netbsd or something Oct 06 07:32:49 been 10 years or so Oct 06 07:33:47 I remember getting around the root password, logging in and finding ancient stuff Oct 06 07:34:22 my first reaction was to figure out how to do a network update after which I discovered they wanted like a couple thousand a year for a support contract or something Oct 06 07:37:20 You update by stealing an ancient tape from somewhere (usually a university) Oct 06 07:38:01 I was in high school at the time. I didn't really have connections :) Oct 06 07:38:01 Take a shovel, you may have to dig. Oct 06 07:38:08 so it's still sitting around somewhere Oct 06 07:40:01 hey guys Oct 06 07:40:04 i gotta question Oct 06 07:40:11 i overclocked the n900 Oct 06 07:40:18 set the min value to 125 and max to 900 Oct 06 07:40:30 and whenever it idles it never hits 125 Oct 06 07:40:34 it stays at 250 Oct 06 07:40:42 im not sure if i missed something Oct 06 07:40:46 using the ondemand ? Oct 06 07:41:09 im using titans Oct 06 07:41:20 kernel thing Oct 06 07:43:28 it resets when you receive a call or something i think Oct 06 07:43:39 u can disable 250 instead Oct 06 07:43:45 maybe Oct 06 07:43:48 i don't remember Oct 06 07:44:14 are people actually seeing better battery life with 125 vs 250? Oct 06 07:44:29 ya its suppose to be Oct 06 07:44:32 no Oct 06 07:44:34 lol Oct 06 07:45:41 someone would have to do a fairly impressive study to convince me :) Oct 06 07:45:55 people are not doing studies any more Oct 06 07:46:12 it is more like "I installed it and it feels much much better, it is great!" Oct 06 07:46:22 dakilla, just so you know, when it's *actually* idle, it just shuts off the clock entirely and sleeps until the next timer expires Oct 06 07:46:56 so it will never show Oct 06 07:47:16 err, that's not what I'm saying at all Oct 06 07:47:28 250 or 125 or whatever is the lowest *running* speed for the CPU Oct 06 07:47:41 when it really has nothing to do, it goes to a couple *lower* power states Oct 06 07:47:49 * RST38h lazily reading the armchair strategists of tmo discussing how THEY would divide top management posts at Nokia Oct 06 07:48:13 RST38h, ooh! is it like fantasy football/baseball/whateverball? Oct 06 07:48:21 that's *awesome.* I would totally play Oct 06 07:48:42 johnx: Yes, but with even less obligation =) Oct 06 07:48:57 we need a bookie :> Oct 06 07:49:05 we need a death pool Oct 06 07:50:23 yeah mine has 125 and 250 as avoid-frequencies Oct 06 07:50:40 installing debian to a flash drive over USB1 is painful Oct 06 07:50:45 i only hav 125 as avoid Oct 06 07:50:49 how do i get rid of that Oct 06 07:51:05 johnx: debootstrap? Oct 06 07:52:30 lindi-, that might have been the better idea. already halfway through, so I'll just leave it overnight Oct 06 07:54:07 morning \o Oct 06 07:54:34 allo lcuk Oct 06 07:55:12 hey johnx - yes I pinged you the other night Oct 06 07:55:25 did you cure your stylusism Oct 06 07:55:44 nah. looks like I'd need to take the whole thing apart Oct 06 07:55:49 not really excited about that thought Oct 06 07:56:04 cos my device is in similar situation Oct 06 07:56:12 bummer Oct 06 07:56:17 must be spreading Oct 06 07:56:20 yup, its got some shard Oct 06 07:57:15 hey, look at that, xchat is getting smart Oct 06 07:57:21 it gave johnx a pink nickname :) Oct 06 07:57:36 har har har Oct 06 07:57:44 crashanddie, thats because you have "bummer" as a keyword Oct 06 07:58:09 I misread that as "keyboard". My hands felt dirty. Oct 06 07:58:25 heh Oct 06 07:58:53 * johnx is obviously missing the unamericun slang ... Oct 06 07:59:15 johnx, what's a bum? Oct 06 07:59:40 crashanddie: you know the fact that you is pink too? :D Oct 06 07:59:43 same as lcuk Oct 06 08:00:03 oh well, settled then. X-chat is going bezerk all over the place. We must file a bug. Oct 06 08:00:21 crashanddie, depends on the context Oct 06 08:00:55 in this case, it meant ass, and bummer, being someone who enjoys sodomy Oct 06 08:01:09 (more giving than receiving, AFAIK) Oct 06 08:01:42 man, imagine than almost a year ago I was being anal (no pun intended) about keeping this channel family friendly... Oct 06 08:01:42 crashanddie, I was using it in the california surfer slang sense of 'that's unfortunate' Oct 06 08:02:03 but(t) whatever floats your boat Oct 06 08:03:50 crashanddie: rejoice, you are still being anal Oct 06 08:03:57 w00t Oct 06 08:04:10 crashanddie: just stopped pretending you were doing it for a greater good =) Oct 06 08:04:30 well, I still do things for the channel... Oct 06 08:04:39 And I stopped frantically kicking. Oct 06 08:05:14 Sign of age, indeed Oct 06 08:26:46 Hello, does Qt4.7 include QtMobility1.1 with maps and navigation api? Oct 06 08:27:00 oops, this is not #qt Oct 06 08:27:11 well. perhaps someone here would know the answer anyway Oct 06 08:56:52 I can't believe that Windows 7 still has mouse-freezes when using the HD... Oct 06 08:57:45 Rather, "has them again" Oct 06 08:57:58 indeed, XP hardly had any... Oct 06 08:58:23 crashanddie, sounds like something else is up Oct 06 08:58:27 * RST38h waits as IE freezes his system Oct 06 08:58:36 lukes win 7 device is happily coping Oct 06 08:58:57 lcuk, also, the Intel driver for my ethernet card makes my system BSOD... Oct 06 08:59:24 ramshackle system or purchased specifically with win7 preinstalled? Oct 06 08:59:33 Dell professional Oct 06 08:59:46 curious Oct 06 08:59:49 indeed Oct 06 09:00:02 maybe its time to close down your pron windows :P Oct 06 09:00:26 nha, has nothing to do with it... If the network card has a boost a bit too big (for example, I launch an SCP copy), bam, BSOD Oct 06 09:00:42 Even sometimes when just loading random files off the web Oct 06 09:00:50 (like jpeg or whatnot) Oct 06 09:01:09 And now it refuses to connect to a bloody network printer that my mac handles no problem... Oct 06 09:01:16 "bam" Oct 06 09:01:40 when I was setting up his computer, all he could say was "bamaym facebook" in som silly accent Oct 06 09:01:52 he got a little excited lol Oct 06 09:02:27 "his"? "he"? Oct 06 09:05:07 crashanddie, luke, new computer Oct 06 09:05:40 20" multitouch all in one, runs win7, has freeview tv with tivo type recording Oct 06 09:06:00 and parental controls :D Oct 06 09:06:07 WTF WAS THAT NOKIA⁈⁈ Oct 06 09:06:19 * luke-jr_ is pissed a bit. Oct 06 09:06:24 pardon Oct 06 09:06:32 is there a *reliable* alarm app for Maemo 5? Oct 06 09:06:53 rather than one that just waits until I wake it up before alarming Oct 06 09:08:30 luke-jr_, never had problems with the alarm Oct 06 09:08:32 lcuk: sorry, but when Nokia's retardery makes me 2 hours late for taking an antibiotic and feeding my newborn who's having trouble gaining weight, I'm going to be very pissed… Oct 06 09:09:09 no, you're fucking retarded if you blame Nokia for your abysmal parental skills Oct 06 09:09:10 your newborn doesn't cry (waking you up) if he's hungry? Oct 06 09:09:42 >implying parental skills means having a perfect internal alarm clock Oct 06 09:09:56 kerio: not always Oct 06 09:10:45 crashanddie: you obviously have no clue what parenting skills entail Oct 06 09:11:02 good luck waking up every 2-3 hours without an alarm Oct 06 09:11:20 says the guy who relies on a phone (without testing it first) to feed his kid. Oct 06 09:11:43 N900 isn't supposed to be a phone. furthermore, a phone probably would have worked Oct 06 09:11:52 luke-jr: A simple digital clock costs around $5 at your local analogy of Walmart Oct 06 09:11:54 heck, I've got the n900, blackberry and laptop with different alarms going off just for work Oct 06 09:11:55 finally, I've been using it fine for nearly a week at least Oct 06 09:12:03 And yes, it has an alarm that will work on time Oct 06 09:16:19 luke-jr_, serious now, if there is a reproducable bug which others seem to not have then record it and show us Oct 06 09:16:39 perhaps its something else on your device because many people use and rely on alarm clock on n900 (myself included) Oct 06 09:17:06 "Moan moan moan, you really think I have time for reporting bugs while my newborn is hungry??? Moan moan moan" "Nope, but you sure have the time to rant about it on IRC" Oct 06 09:17:48 lcuk: People still report Maemo5 bugs? Oct 06 09:17:51 lcuk, it fails for me every couple months Oct 06 09:18:14 usually seems related to general system 'weirdness' that coincides with long uptimes Oct 06 09:18:26 can't reproduce it reliably Oct 06 09:19:02 RST38h, read what I said more carefully Oct 06 09:19:09 hrm Oct 06 09:19:19 strangest alarm issue I have is with one device: Oct 06 09:19:20 http://liqbase.net/20100804_004.mp4 Oct 06 09:32:02 "In the Philippines, a land of passionate singers, taking on the national anthem is about to get a little more daunting -- get it wrong and you could land in jail for a couple of years and be fined more than $2,000." Oct 06 09:34:15 crashanddie, ouch! Oct 06 10:12:46 pretty sweet with 2.6.35 on meego. At least the kernel is up to date :) Oct 06 10:13:36 and actively upstreaming stuff Oct 06 10:14:47 I guess it's not possible to launch meego from mmc without a pc atm? Oct 06 10:16:07 not atm Oct 06 11:12:09 tttt Oct 06 11:13:28 yuiuyiuy Oct 06 11:19:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064YTtSxVSo [ Our Wise Overlords Are Just Here to Serve Us | Thomas E. Woods. Jr. ] Oct 06 11:19:26 hi Oct 06 11:19:42 does anyone know how can i paste anything on the madde console ? Oct 06 11:19:53 anyone ? Oct 06 11:25:43 does anyone know how can i paste anything on the madde console ? Oct 06 11:26:20 yes Oct 06 11:26:26 somebody knows Oct 06 11:26:32 plz tell :) Oct 06 11:26:45 where is that somebody Oct 06 11:26:49 * n900-space calls out somebody !! Oct 06 11:27:00 somebody died a while back Oct 06 11:27:05 n900-space: asking repeatedly w/in a short interval will not make you friends Oct 06 11:27:35 i'm looking for answers not friends :) Oct 06 11:27:46 people dont become my friend anyway .. Oct 06 11:27:48 heh Oct 06 11:27:55 but i'm not bad to anyone .. so its ok .. Oct 06 11:28:21 what is madde? Oct 06 11:28:38 middle mouse button n900-space Oct 06 11:28:43 try that Oct 06 11:28:52 n900-space: http://www.atom.com/funny_videos/luke_flips_out/ Oct 06 11:28:58 patience luke Oct 06 11:29:56 air http://pastebin.com/DaEZ8i08 Oct 06 11:29:59 :) Oct 06 11:30:57 you gave the idea pupnik Oct 06 11:31:08 for my laptop, shift+left click is working Oct 06 11:31:12 thanks :) Oct 06 11:31:23 cool! :) Oct 06 11:39:59 just a dumb question: can't i set a status preset including a message? Oct 06 11:41:11 fuckin centos! Gaah! Oct 06 11:43:20 mece what's a reason to use centos? Oct 06 11:44:31 he likes pain? Oct 06 11:46:46 pupnik, well I got this server for a project and it was required to use centos. Oct 06 11:47:11 pupnik, it's fine, but it uses python2.4 system wide, and you can't yum yourself python2.5 Oct 06 11:47:28 so I have to install from source with altinstall. Which is annoying. Oct 06 11:47:55 fuck taxes Oct 06 12:23:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon Oct 06 12:25:45 hello Oct 06 12:25:56 can someone look into my issue : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63167 Oct 06 12:27:16 "Everything that the staff has suggested" LOL Oct 06 12:27:27 Hey guys, people in #maemo are "staff" :) W00t Oct 06 12:27:44 GAN900, I want an update to my IRC cloak. i want /maemo/staff/ Oct 06 12:28:45 heh Oct 06 12:32:30 xDaReaperx: so if manually setting your ip works, then it's not an authentication issue.. Oct 06 12:32:49 i would suggest connecting to one of the networks and running udhcp on the command line and seeing what it says Oct 06 12:33:02 crashanddie, everybody except you. Oct 06 12:33:05 probably do it with a manual ip setting so that maemo doesn't try and run dhcp for you Oct 06 12:33:29 GAN900, nooooooooooooo :( Oct 06 12:33:34 should give you a little more info about the issue Oct 06 12:38:26 ieatlint, you say running "udhcp" what should it show Oct 06 12:39:04 cos I get udhcp not found Oct 06 12:46:42 lcuk: record what? with what? Oct 06 12:47:08 IroN900:~# id Oct 06 12:47:09 uid=0(root) gid=0(root) Oct 06 12:47:11 IroN900:~# udhcpc --help Oct 06 12:47:12 udhcpc: unrecognized option `--help' Oct 06 12:47:36 lcuk: c for 'client' Oct 06 12:48:10 ConnectNow kinda rules Oct 06 12:48:18 the only thing I'm missing is a "connect to any" button Oct 06 12:48:30 mgedmin, reconnect to specified ap? Oct 06 12:48:36 the widget you mentioned? Oct 06 12:48:44 yes Oct 06 12:48:54 now I have to have a separate widget for every network name Oct 06 12:49:01 * luke-jr_ wonders if the alarm failure depends on Offline Mode Oct 06 12:50:15 mgedmin, :) sweet Oct 06 12:52:32 lcuk: err, udhcpc Oct 06 12:53:20 c for 'c'lient Oct 06 12:54:06 >tab> cmdname completion is really helping ;-) Oct 06 12:54:22 ieatlint, :) indeed DocScrutinizer showed Oct 06 12:54:32 it doesnt matter anyway, the guy left Oct 06 12:54:37 as is having decent manpages, just sometimes Oct 06 12:56:07 DocScrutinizer, it wasnt the manpage i was just curious what output is expected Oct 06 12:56:11 Nokia-N900:~# udhcpc Oct 06 12:56:11 udhcpc (v0.9.9-pre) started Oct 06 12:56:11 SIOCGIFINDEX failed!: No such device Oct 06 12:56:14 though 'apropos dhcp' not really helped to find udhcpc, on N900 :-/ Oct 06 12:57:04 ~lart pre-install docpurge Oct 06 12:57:04 * infobot slaps pre-install docpurge upside the head with a wet fish Oct 06 12:58:29 WHERE ARE THE *-doc PKGS?? ³²¶ŋłŋ€@@!!1?#!!***### Oct 06 12:58:47 why shout Oct 06 12:58:56 cant you just run it yourself and lets see the comparison :P Oct 06 12:59:00 because that's PISSING me Oct 06 12:59:03 i am curious because I have manual ips Oct 06 12:59:45 it would be nice if maemo/meego shipped dman, which downloads man pages from the internet and displays them in all your 80x24 tty glory Oct 06 13:00:09 lcuk: a proper repo setup would split every package into a basic install, a *-doc, and a *-debug Oct 06 13:00:24 * mgedmin is speaking about http://manpages.ubuntu.com/dman, which is hard to google Oct 06 13:00:24 huh? you mean a *-dev Oct 06 13:00:34 or -dbgsym? Oct 06 13:00:41 i just type "man xyz" into google normally :S Oct 06 13:00:41 meh, *-dev as well, yes Oct 06 13:00:52 but thats not going to tell me what the expected output from n900 is Oct 06 13:01:19 i gave one snapshot from manual ip input, can someone do it for dynamic :P Oct 06 13:03:18 lcuk: I'm not inclined to try and access google to get a manpage about udhcpc (go figure!) Oct 06 13:03:58 i am not asking you to Oct 06 13:04:09 just run the damn command and paste what it says Oct 06 13:04:14 :P Oct 06 13:04:29 sorry, not now Oct 06 13:06:09 lcuk, "SIOCGIFINDEX failed!: No such device" when run as root Oct 06 13:06:19 "socket failed!: Operation not permitted" when run as user Oct 06 13:06:42 btw I'm not suggesting you asked me to go google man pages, I asked *you* to try and do that when your udhcpc is not working - get it? Oct 06 13:07:09 hmm mgedmin Oct 06 13:07:32 'sudo udhcpc wlan0' -> SIOCGIFINDEX failed, too Oct 06 13:07:44 google - without dhcp - without working internet connection... hope it's clear now where I'm coming from Oct 06 13:08:24 'sudo udhcpc -i wlan0' -> doing stuff Oct 06 13:09:42 DocScrutinizer, that's what windows does when the wlan driver isn't working, "Go online to find a solution?" Oct 06 13:09:54 lcuk: there's a reason for some special man pages even being *printed* in the apendix of decent unix admin books Oct 06 13:09:56 lcuk: ah, sorry, distracted :P Oct 06 13:11:21 DocScrutinizer, indeed but in this case its not that bad Oct 06 13:11:51 lcuk: if you're on a recovery shell on a borked system with a fs that needs fsck run to mount, you'll be happy about printed version of man fsck. Same holds true for ~50 manpages related to connectivity, which you want to access locally without internet connection Oct 06 13:13:00 one of them being man udhcpc Oct 06 13:14:42 maemo (and OE based) repos are brainfsckd to not even offer *optional* doc packages for any of the apps/tools Oct 06 13:16:14 I really hope meego laptop UX users won't let meego devels get away with same nonsense for meego Oct 06 13:17:46 mgedmin, if I run that command on a network with dhcp will it show things Oct 06 13:17:51 because on mine it just sits idle Oct 06 13:19:08 basically it should be mandatory for every pkg to have a "IF pkg-installed(mandb) THEN install-pkg(${ME}-doc)" in postinstall script Oct 06 13:20:15 :) Oct 06 13:20:25 lcuk, yes, it did show a lot of very interesting things, but I summarized that as "doing stuff" because I'm lazy Oct 06 13:20:45 DocScrutinizer, :) simpler would be to make the main package simply depend upon the related -doc Oct 06 13:21:03 rather than an explicit postinst postrm hack Oct 06 13:21:07 distros like Debian would not look kindly at a proposition to invent 20,000 new tiny packages containing one or two man pages each Oct 06 13:21:18 not at all Oct 06 13:21:26 err, uhuh. So how'd you handle the case a system doesn't even have the storage for the manpages then? Oct 06 13:21:34 didnt somebody hack man Oct 06 13:21:37 to be back available Oct 06 13:22:49 mgedmin: of course the better way would be to include the manpages to the main pkg and then do docpurge or a similar action during INSTALL time, depending on what's found on the target system Oct 06 13:24:45 but anticipating objections from the "we don't need that" fraction about download data volume during install, I wasn't going to suggest that as the only viable way Oct 06 13:25:04 for sure there are several ways to kill a cat Oct 06 13:25:27 not providing ANY manpages isn't one of them Oct 06 13:28:52 curse xchat's ctrl-w handling Oct 06 13:28:55 infobot, ^ Oct 06 13:28:56 i heard ^ is the XK-Operator. Don't try to understand it, or the XOR operator, or beginning of line in regex, or the 'search files in this dir for the following regexp' operator in zsh Oct 06 13:28:58 lcuk: what you're talking bout? mandb-n900 ? Oct 06 13:29:12 xk? Oct 06 13:30:10 ctrl-w? Oct 06 13:31:15 expected behaviour: deletes word to the left of the cursor. actual behaviour: leaves the channel Oct 06 13:31:23 ~curse mgedmin for not using xchat's keymapping config properly Oct 06 13:31:24 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, mgedmin for not using xchat's keymapping config properly ! Oct 06 13:31:26 ctrl-u clears the input if you mistype a password Oct 06 13:31:29 * crashanddie calls IT to install yet another UML app Oct 06 13:33:36 mgedmin: that's not a shell, that's xchat with a standard textinput field. Use standard lineedit features for it, like e.g shift-ctrl-left to highlight (multiple) word(s), then delete (BS) or copy (ctl-C) or cut (ctl-X) the highlighted text Oct 06 13:33:58 * mgedmin thanks DocScrutinizer for his infinite wisdom Oct 06 13:34:48 * DocScrutinizer takes mgedmin for hos infintely kind sarcasm, takes it and dumps it to the junk Oct 06 13:35:04 * mgedmin is hurt that DocScrutinizer assumed sarcasm Oct 06 13:36:21 such hatred and anger in here Oct 06 13:36:39 ieatlint, indeed, maybe you should leave, you loving teddybear. Oct 06 13:37:08 Somehow, using "loving teddybear" seems a billion times more wrong than "you bastard". Oct 06 13:37:11 being called a bear means something very specific here, and i'm afraid i don't fit the description Oct 06 13:37:29 ieatlint, IRC has no concept of "here" :P Oct 06 13:37:39 hehe, true Oct 06 13:37:47 but where i a physically am Oct 06 13:38:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_(gay_culture) for more info :P Oct 06 13:38:02 unless by "here" you mean IRC, and are afraid that RevdKathy is going to kidnap you Oct 06 13:38:05 crashanddie, SF. :P Oct 06 13:38:05 c'mon, whining about a Qt/GTK text input field not supporting a shell hotkey - that's usually provoking much harsher reactions. Wasn't my answer kind, polite, and helpful? Oct 06 13:38:07 * RST38h yawns. Ok, so, who is practicing sarcasm here? Oct 06 13:38:21 GAN900, oh, right. Sorry ieatlint. Oct 06 13:41:11 crashanddie: if you're ever in sf, i'll buy you a beer at an awesome trucker-themed bear bar Oct 06 13:41:22 i'm told they have decent burgers too Oct 06 13:44:18 ieatlint, I spent quite a bit of time south of SF Oct 06 13:44:23 RST38h: why? infringing your monopoly? :-P Oct 06 13:44:32 ieatlint, closer to mountain view/san jose Oct 06 13:44:56 ah, the land of suburbia and strip malls Oct 06 13:45:04 indeed Oct 06 13:46:59 GAN900: so, you going to Ireland? My meeting has been moved so I should be able to make it Oct 06 13:47:13 hopefully you were exposed to the good local beer while out here then Oct 06 13:47:26 * DocScrutinizer points mgedmin to ~/.xchat2/keybindings.conf Oct 06 13:47:42 Hello all Oct 06 13:47:52 DocScrutinizer, does xchat-gnome also use those? Oct 06 13:48:10 there's this Gtk+ feature where I can change menu shortcuts if I enable an option in gconf Oct 06 13:48:12 dunno, no gnome here, but I'd bet on 'yes' Oct 06 13:48:18 I've done that and remapped "Close window" to Alt+Ctrl+W Oct 06 13:48:37 though, given the g* word, I refrain from any betting Oct 06 13:48:48 combined with another hidden conf option to change my key theme to 'emacs', I usually get ctrl-w = delete word in all gtk+ input boxes Oct 06 13:48:58 and this used to work in xchat Oct 06 13:49:14 but I think I decided to wean myself of the habit and didn't change my keybindings theme in this reinstall Oct 06 13:49:30 ctrl+w is not really an emacs specific command :P Oct 06 13:50:00 I have a lil issue with my Nokia n900, could anyone please help me for a sec ? Oct 06 13:50:00 it works with any app that uses readline, along with many other programs Oct 06 13:50:14 ~ask Oct 06 13:50:14 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Oct 06 13:50:16 ichinix: ? Oct 06 13:50:35 lardman, still planning on it, still haven't heard about sponsorship. Oct 06 13:50:52 SpeedEvil, my Nokia n900 keeps on booting and shutting down, wont even come to the bootsplash Oct 06 13:51:11 ~flatbat Oct 06 13:51:17 ~flatbattery Oct 06 13:51:19 hmm Oct 06 13:51:21 ~flatbatrecover Oct 06 13:51:21 Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover Oct 06 13:51:25 my guess is i bricked it but i hoped someone could help me to revive it :P Oct 06 13:51:28 yeah - that Oct 06 13:51:42 Did you do anything wirrd to it? Oct 06 13:51:43 then Oct 06 13:51:45 wierd Oct 06 13:51:46 ~flah Oct 06 13:51:51 ~flash Oct 06 13:51:51 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 06 13:52:03 tried to update and remove packages Oct 06 13:52:15 power kernel I suppose Oct 06 13:52:20 :) Oct 06 13:52:22 yup Oct 06 13:52:26 reflash Oct 06 13:52:38 before your battery is completely flat Oct 06 13:52:40 i tried but i get the msg that the device is buzy Oct 06 13:53:05 that's a server PC issue, not N900 Oct 06 13:53:13 Unable to enumerate USB devices! Oct 06 13:53:23 windows? Oct 06 13:53:29 even on windows i it keeps on beeping Oct 06 13:53:33 i have dual boot Oct 06 13:53:42 with opensuse 11.3 and windows 7 Oct 06 13:54:01 try linux system, make sure you got no hub or anything in between flashing PC and N900 Oct 06 13:54:31 i am on my linux system Oct 06 13:54:48 and *make sure your battery is charged*. You'll run into a bootstrap problem with borked non charging system plus flat battery Oct 06 13:55:07 ill charge the battery in a sec and try again Oct 06 13:55:12 bootlooping doe DISCHARGE battery!! Oct 06 13:55:34 when i try to flash the phone and get to the "Suitable USB device not found, waiting." msg i plug in the phone which is tunred off at that time Oct 06 13:55:42 it's a real deadlock Oct 06 13:55:44 while holding down the u button and all Oct 06 13:55:56 correct Oct 06 13:56:07 as soon as i plug it in i get the msg "Unable to enumerate USB devices!" Oct 06 13:56:32 umm, you're running flasher as root? Oct 06 13:56:36 yup Oct 06 13:56:44 hmm, weird Oct 06 13:57:01 you are holding 'u' on N900 (sorry, have to ask that) Oct 06 13:57:07 yup Oct 06 13:57:21 dont be sorry :) u only try to help :P i need it ;P ;p; Oct 06 13:57:23 lol Oct 06 13:57:48 remove battery from N900, plug to USB, insert batery while holding 'u' Oct 06 13:58:11 and try again i presume ? Oct 06 13:58:58 start flasher, wait for "Suitable USB device not found, waiting.", plug in N900 without battery inserted, insert battery while u Oct 06 13:59:16 same result im afraid Oct 06 13:59:31 damn Oct 06 13:59:32 could it be that im using the wrong image file ? Oct 06 13:59:39 that i make a mistake on that end Oct 06 13:59:40 nope Oct 06 13:59:49 hmm Oct 06 13:59:50 not afaik Oct 06 13:59:51 what does holding 'u' do again? Oct 06 14:00:04 it forces NOLO into flashing mode Oct 06 14:00:22 thus it should stop any enum on USB Oct 06 14:00:37 ichinix: use another linux box Oct 06 14:00:58 would a live cd be good enough ? Oct 06 14:01:03 something seems to interfere with USB (maybe automounter or whatever) Oct 06 14:01:11 yes, live CD is fine Oct 06 14:01:26 kk bbl :) have loads of those arround :P Oct 06 14:06:18 if you like .debs try sidux / aptosid - nice lightweight livecd also Oct 06 14:10:05 DocScrutinizer, only if USB is plugged in, though, right? Oct 06 14:10:37 GAN900: only what? Oct 06 14:11:22 (btw I'm happy to hand over to somebody else, as I'm neither the certified expert for flashing, nor completely up and running today) Oct 06 14:11:50 you're down and walking today? :p Oct 06 14:12:51 GAN900: NOLO forcing? Nah, it needs no host for sure, dunno about 5V but I managed to keep NOLO in flashing mode on wallcharger Oct 06 14:13:09 ...and proved it DOEs NOT charge in this mode Oct 06 14:14:41 so first Q to ichinix should've been "does it show NOLO with USB icon in upper right corner?" Oct 06 14:15:31 DocScrutinizer Oct 06 14:15:39 need's your help * Oct 06 14:16:09 could you analyze my problem http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63167 Oct 06 14:17:53 confirmed, without VBUS NOLO won't enter flashing mode Oct 06 14:18:43 so if it refuses to show NOLO & USB icon, check what makes VBUS fail. Try with wallcharger instead of desktop PC Oct 06 14:21:15 then OTOH when VBUS fails, there's no reason at all for N900 to boot up on USB plug in Oct 06 14:22:02 except when host disables VBUS on first short moment of NOLO trying to start charging Oct 06 14:23:07 So if it works on wallcharger but not on host PC, try a different host PC box then (with possibly better USB hw) Oct 06 14:24:00 hello Oct 06 14:24:41 do you know how to export the maemo calendar? Oct 06 14:24:48 thanks Oct 06 14:26:48 xDaReaperx: first comments: hidden SSID is absolutely deprecated, causes battery drain and security threats to both your N900 and your whole WLAN Oct 06 14:28:05 xDaReaperx: make sure your WPA2-PSK is correct. There's a lot of variations on how to correctly enter such a key Oct 06 14:28:50 Okay my SSID is not longer hidden , still gives up the same error ... i'll try to work out with the key Oct 06 14:29:00 your method on N900 might not be compatible with what is suggested and assumed in your shool/dad's/whatever network Oct 06 14:29:41 DocScrutinizer: what kind of security threat does hidden ssid causes? Oct 06 14:29:58 i was about to ask that ^ Oct 06 14:30:37 your client device broadcasting all names of networks with hidden SSIDS, for example, whenever it encounters a AP with hidden SSID Oct 06 14:31:24 so any rogue AP gets suggestions for free how to lure you into associating with it and think it's your 'own' network Oct 06 14:31:34 also eats lots of battery Oct 06 14:31:52 further threats are more complicated to explain Oct 06 14:31:59 no one knows how to sync n900 calendar with korganizer? Oct 06 14:32:07 (tbh I can't exactly remember right now) Oct 06 14:32:20 that looks like an n900 issue Oct 06 14:32:23 not an hidden ssid issue Oct 06 14:32:27 kama: there are lengthy threads in tmo about syncing Oct 06 14:33:07 (and tbh, mutual authentication is the only real way to be sure you're not associating with the wrong AP) Oct 06 14:33:08 Corsac: the problem sketched above is a generic WLAN+hidden_SSID issue Oct 06 14:33:15 Damn i just tried changing the WPA pass phrase to something much compromising , and also switched from WPA 2 to WPA Oct 06 14:33:24 still no hope ... Oct 06 14:33:39 DocScrutinizer: is it required by the norm to broadcast all remembered hidden ssid when you encounter one hidden ssid? Oct 06 14:33:45 it would find that pretty weird Oct 06 14:33:56 xDaReaperx: apparently dmesg will show info about connecting Oct 06 14:33:58 hidden SSID: DEPRECATED! just don't do it! Oct 06 14:34:06 take a look at what it says is going on Oct 06 14:34:08 ok so the security reason was just fud :) Oct 06 14:34:15 No My SSID is no longer hidden Oct 06 14:35:51 DocScrutinizer: i found only solution that uses gpe-calendar/gmail.....but i just want to export ics from the "default" maemo calendar Oct 06 14:35:52 Corsac: how's your client going to ask AP with hidden SSID about the name of it?? There's no other way than asking "are you MY1STHIDDENSSID ? are you Ny"ndHiddenSSID ?" and so on. No? Oct 06 14:36:02 is it possible? Oct 06 14:36:29 kama: not ootb Oct 06 14:36:42 good Oct 06 14:36:44 :) Oct 06 14:36:50 thank you Oct 06 14:36:54 I gave up on it so far, just copying vcards back and forth Oct 06 14:36:59 DocScrutinizer: don't try to connect automagically to hidden networks, that's all? Oct 06 14:37:36 DocScrutinizer : I've completly switched off Security encryption for my WiFi , it still wont connect Oct 06 14:37:39 Corsac: if you got hidden SSID connections configured, what do you expect network layer to do about it? Oct 06 14:37:45 (note that some implementations send probe request for each and every ssid they know anyway) Oct 06 14:37:49 Also - SSID is no longer hidden * Oct 06 14:37:49 (hidden or not) Oct 06 14:38:00 DocScrutinizer: don't do anything until user request it? Oct 06 14:38:15 xDaReaperx: take a look at dmesg, it should log what is happening Oct 06 14:38:24 ok Oct 06 14:38:25 Corsac: don't move focus away from original topic! Oct 06 14:38:26 hidden ssid aren't exactly supposed to be joined automatically imho, it's not really consistent Oct 06 14:39:09 cya all Oct 06 14:39:43 cya Oct 06 14:45:52 im back :) Oct 06 14:47:11 darn i forgot the guys name who helped me :) anyway im the guy from a couple of min ago with the broken nokia Oct 06 14:47:30 and it looks like its fixed now so i wanna thank you for your help :) Oct 06 14:48:29 :) Oct 06 14:48:31 Congrats. Oct 06 14:48:58 thanks :) Oct 06 14:49:04 ichinix, docscrutinizer and SpeedEvil helped you Oct 06 14:49:38 cool thanks everyone for helping a nokia noob like me xD Oct 06 14:50:18 ichinix: was a pleasure Oct 06 14:50:47 so what i just did i can consider that as reinstalling my phone ? Oct 06 14:51:06 if you reflashed it? Yes. Oct 06 14:52:19 cool :) makes me more comfortable messing with my phone as i would with my computer xD Oct 06 14:53:40 So in that case ull be seeing me more often here trying to get help and hopefully givehelp in the future :P Oct 06 14:53:46 lol Oct 06 15:04:05 ichinix: welcome. And of course all contributions appreciated Oct 06 15:18:52 I installed MyMenu on my n900 to try it out. When I uninstalled today all my shortcuts, except for a few are gone. I can't even start App Manager or xterm... any ideas how to get them back? Oct 06 15:31:41 ooh, i've made it to 8 days ago Oct 06 15:33:49 Af'noon Oct 06 15:39:54 good luck with your time travels, timeless_mbp Oct 06 15:42:43 mgedmin: thanks Oct 06 15:46:16 besides clearing saved passwords, Is there a way to have microb ask to remember password after saying never remember? Oct 06 15:47:16 the choice is saved somewhere Oct 06 15:47:28 so technically you could go to the right place and locally zap it Oct 06 15:48:09 http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Remembering+passwords#Remembering_passwords Oct 06 15:48:18 is the relevant mozilla kb for it Oct 06 15:48:39 i'm not sure the pref window code is available, but you should be able to pull it in Oct 06 15:48:44 (or manually follow it) Oct 06 15:49:06 in a future less hacky browser, that preference would be exposed in a site properties page Oct 06 15:49:10 s/page/view/ Oct 06 15:49:11 timeless_mbp meant: in a future less hacky browser, that preference would be exposed in a site properties view Oct 06 15:49:22 in fennec, such a thing would be exposed as part of Larry Oct 06 15:50:01 although, googling for Larry fails miserably Oct 06 15:50:47 http://www.dria.org/wordpress/archives/2008/05/06/635/ for lack of a better hit Oct 06 15:51:31 I edited signons.sqlite Oct 06 15:51:36 deleted site entry Oct 06 15:51:39 works fine Oct 06 15:51:53 it's in /home/user/.mozilla/microb Oct 06 15:56:54 hmm I don't remember putting Ovi Store in never remember Oct 06 15:57:04 Seriously, I thought Gizmodo is not that "crazy american" (in a bad way) blog. Failed. Oct 06 15:57:23 can someone check if that is an entry in/home/user/.mozilla/microb/signons.sqlite ? Oct 06 16:03:45 ls -l /home/user/.mozilla/microb/signons.sqlite Oct 06 16:03:45 -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 23552 Oct 1 21:28 /home/user/.mozilla/microb/signons.sqlite Oct 06 16:05:56 sqlite3 signons.sqlirte Oct 06 16:06:15 .tables Oct 06 16:06:15 moz_disabledHosts moz_logins Oct 06 16:06:15 sqlite> .dump moz_disabledHosts Oct 06 16:06:16 ... Oct 06 16:06:56 err, isn't there "an app for it"? Oct 06 16:07:40 microb addon certs, addon xyz - pkg ? Oct 06 16:08:05 something weird using xulrunner or somesuch Oct 06 16:08:23 probably Oct 06 16:15:56 microb-engine-common-ext - Cert and password manager for microb. hmm... Oct 06 16:31:51 SpeedEvil: .dump is really nice :-) ON CONFLICT REPLACE - damn my SQL got rusty over the decades Oct 06 16:33:39 could it be somewhat related to sqlite3 ? got a weird 100% CPU for quite some minutes Oct 06 16:35:51 Trying again in case someone knows: anyone has any idea what the key/cert in /etc/certs/trusted/root.key and root.ca do? They're used in maemo-security-certman ./lib/security/libbb5stub.cpp in bb5_init and bb5_finish at least. Oct 06 16:35:56 Odon't think there is a sqlited or anything like that Oct 06 16:36:08 Googling bb5 just tells me it's something to do with carrier locks. Oct 06 16:36:51 bb5 is the cellmo chip rapuyama Oct 06 16:37:20 so I'd guess that cert is related to cellmo FW update verification Oct 06 16:38:21 Yeah. I just thought it was very odd to have a key/cert pair where the private key is publically known. :) Oct 06 16:38:23 or it's the carrier's cert to verify unlock code for simlocked devices? Oct 06 16:38:32 DocScrutinizer: It's the same on all devices. Oct 06 16:38:37 From http://gitorious.org/maemo-5-certificate-manager/maemo-security-certman/commit/b551ece82b3707baaea1f40cca15e435f05c0da4 Oct 06 16:39:20 hmm, k. NFC bout certs, only can tell you bb5 is the modem/phone hardware's name Oct 06 16:39:38 ok, thanks :) Oct 06 16:40:33 please keep us updated about your findings, that's an intriguing topic Oct 06 16:42:28 yo lardman \o Oct 06 16:42:43 hi lcuk Oct 06 16:44:07 dsg: I would guess it's the key used to verify the cellmo firmware is plausible before uploading it to the modem. Which is probably signed itself in a different manner. Oct 06 16:44:29 My N900 is stuck in a reboot-loop Oct 06 16:44:38 Back to the N97 Mini then Oct 06 16:45:12 lolcat^: so what? you came here to tell us that? Oct 06 16:45:39 Yep Oct 06 16:45:52 I guess I will give it back to the shop and hope they give me a new one Oct 06 16:46:21 * DocScrutinizer adds a mark on the chalkboard, category 'useless information' Oct 06 16:46:50 How is that useless? The device is weird. I wouldn't mind knowing how to fix it... Oct 06 16:47:18 lolcat^, it would help to know what you did to it before it broke on you Oct 06 16:47:24 so others can save themselves Oct 06 16:47:39 lcuk: he's not even asking for any help? Oct 06 16:47:45 I ssh'd into it to mess with my gf. Then I ran htop and killed a bunch of prosesses! Oct 06 16:48:31 It was fun for a while. Then I recived a call from a friend, we talked for like 20 minutes. Then it said: "Phone-program has to be closed" (poorly translated) Oct 06 16:48:39 lcuk: he came here to let us know "N900=weird." & "going back to N97" Oct 06 16:48:59 DocScrutinizer: No, I will get my N900 fixed! I need a smartphone! Oct 06 16:49:28 Actually, it would not help to know how he broke it Oct 06 16:49:30 After that the phone wouldn't call, so I tried to reboot. And then it started reboot looping. Oct 06 16:49:43 himm. Oct 06 16:49:47 But it would help if he switched to N97 and went away to some Symbian forum Oct 06 16:49:51 I wonder if you'ver flattened thebattery Oct 06 16:49:54 ~flatbattery Oct 06 16:50:02 * lolcat^ for a moment I thougth DocScrutinizer kicked himself Oct 06 16:50:02 thinking the same SpeedEvil Oct 06 16:50:06 ~flatbat Oct 06 16:50:13 SpeedEvil: It was flatt when I bougth it, display device Oct 06 16:50:34 lolcat^, just try leaving it on charge over night? Oct 06 16:50:47 or will it cycle Oct 06 16:50:56 lcuk: But it havent been flat for at least a month. Oct 06 16:51:33 awesome, you have one of the new nuclear batteries Oct 06 16:51:37 And is there any spotify solution? Oct 06 16:51:51 lcuk: I charge it when I am home. I am usually home... Oct 06 16:51:59 I think your rebootify issue needs a solutionify Oct 06 16:52:19 its just a thought lolcat^ Oct 06 16:52:49 lcuk: Ok, thanks will try Oct 06 16:58:11 meh, not even kicking myself helped Oct 06 16:58:57 DocScrutinizer: kicking won't help. /kill will, but you need to be an IC op for that :-) Oct 06 16:59:14 hey ccooke \o Oct 06 16:59:30 hiya :-) Oct 06 16:59:31 ccooke: orly? Oct 06 17:00:04 DocScrutinizer51: Too many irc apps will automatically rejoin channels. Very bad form, and all that Oct 06 17:01:47 well, mine would reoonnect+rejoin, but doesn't rejoin Oct 06 17:03:11 hmm, the problem is I'm not supposed to have any ignores active. But nevermind, there's nothing to delay that trouble comin every day (FZ). foul Mood + Noobs just doesn't please Oct 06 17:04:57 this special kind of noobs trolling with first statement like 'n900 is weird, back to xy sybian. Shop will fix my mess" Oct 06 17:05:43 as if anybody would care at all Oct 06 17:07:52 seems like RST38h quite sympathized on my feelings about that Oct 06 17:11:57 * RST38h wonders why not use /ignore Oct 06 17:16:31 RST38h: got spanking for that as chanops aren't supposed to Oct 06 17:20:15 DocScrutinizer, burn it down. Oct 06 17:20:55 For information, i bricked my n900 using BackupMenu by robbiethe1st, even the nokia care center was unable to reflash it, be careful Oct 06 17:21:23 lies Oct 06 17:21:42 septiq: well, that's what you get for writing directly to NAND Oct 06 17:21:59 septiq: i'm willing to bet with a specially crafted initrd that i could get it back to life Oct 06 17:22:02 :P Oct 06 17:22:20 curiosity always, ALWAYS kills the cat Oct 06 17:22:31 * lardman hands Stskeeps a special craft knife Oct 06 17:23:47 i managed to recover once by flashing then i had the stupid idea to try again, finally i never succedeed in re-flashing Oct 06 17:23:57 hmm, how has that bricked your N900 out of interest? Oct 06 17:24:20 are you shadowz1337 from TMO? Oct 06 17:25:07 lardman: it has been sent to nokia, now i have to wait 3/4 weeks Oct 06 17:25:56 ah, I see what backupmenu does now Oct 06 17:26:04 i'd be glad if we had a safe solution for device cloning Oct 06 17:26:50 actually; i have no idea why the dd with md5sum check failed in my case Oct 06 17:27:54 has someone ever successfully cloned rootfs+optfs with BackupMenu ? Oct 06 17:33:02 has anyone tried to patch Recaller for a better file naming scheme ? Oct 06 17:33:36 * pupnik can't help, sorry Oct 06 17:40:57 septiq: NAND has arbitrary bad blocks, writing directly to phys dev is like begging for doom Oct 06 17:41:48 DocScrutinizer51: i wont forget your words Oct 06 17:41:57 what does the NAND use? ubi? Oct 06 17:42:01 or jffs2? Oct 06 17:47:59 ubi afaik Oct 06 18:02:50 arg i just blinded myself with the flash on n900 (jokingly close up accidental button firing) Oct 06 18:03:54 hmm i see , i can use n900 like not lethel weapon ! Oct 06 18:03:55 :P Oct 06 18:06:03 moin Oct 06 18:15:25 lcuk: don't worry, ther'll be no permanent damage other than 2 black spots in your vision Oct 06 18:17:18 my similar injury was caused by a 1W green laser though - luckily at 85 to the right, eleation 0 Oct 06 18:18:07 With your last remaining eye... Oct 06 18:18:13 ...don't look back into the laser Oct 06 18:18:20 hehe Oct 06 18:19:10 wtf Oct 06 18:19:22 Just got an email from the so-called CTO Oct 06 18:19:50 chief tech officer? Oct 06 18:20:04 they're going to use a CLI PHP app to act as a proxy between HTTP clients, and our C++ server Oct 06 18:20:28 main arguments are "PHP is better suited to talk to HTTP clients" and "PHP will be faster" Oct 06 18:20:29 *cough* Oct 06 18:20:54 double*cough* Oct 06 18:20:55 who the fuck put this monkey in charge? Oct 06 18:20:56 http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/share/ - those in the UK - t-mobile and orange free roaming Oct 06 18:21:41 crashanddie, why do managers try to make technical decisions? Oct 06 18:21:42 crashanddie: Have you considered a whip-round the IT staff to buy a contract on him? Oct 06 18:22:00 GAN900, he's not a manager Oct 06 18:22:24 GAN900, he's supposedly my manager, but I met him once during my interviewing process, and never had a single email (this is the first one) from him since I joined the company Oct 06 18:22:42 nor phone call, or face-to-face Oct 06 18:22:52 who the hell is that guy Oct 06 18:22:59 that sounds like material for thedailywtf... Oct 06 18:23:00 does he really get money from your company Oct 06 18:23:11 he wrote the web UI for our main product Oct 06 18:23:14 (I write the backend) Oct 06 18:23:17 it's a dodgy PHP hack Oct 06 18:23:56 apparently, he sees PHP as a solution to everything... Our C++ server already handles the HTTP connections, and provides them with a dynamically generated Javascript library, + a socket that streams all the required ata Oct 06 18:24:04 s/ ata/data/ Oct 06 18:24:04 crashanddie meant: apparently, he sees PHP as a solution to everything... Our C++ server already handles the HTTP connections, and provides them with a dynamically generated Javascript library, + a socket that streams all the requireddata Oct 06 18:24:07 cock Oct 06 18:24:32 penis Oct 06 18:24:39 crashanddie: wait Oct 06 18:24:47 so your server does everything already Oct 06 18:24:51 and it works Oct 06 18:24:54 Hi Oct 06 18:24:55 wtf does he want Oct 06 18:25:31 kerio, our API isn't purty enough for the web team. They don't like the fact we generate our own javascript library, and the fact we don't use the JQuery standard (ie: $(bollocks)) Oct 06 18:26:24 crashanddie: make it clear to their boss and their boss' boss that they'll be wasting time reimplementing what already works Oct 06 18:26:41 well, it's the CEO Oct 06 18:27:05 I'm seeing him tomorrow anyway, and I'm having dinner with the engineering manager tonight Oct 06 18:27:12 quite a bit time ago i was in charge dealing with servers for some browser based game Oct 06 18:27:21 frontend was php Oct 06 18:27:36 well, on start pretty much everything was php based Oct 06 18:27:49 jacekowski, I can understand why the frontend can be PHP, it's a good language for everything around web-based stuff Oct 06 18:27:56 and then stuff got rewriten as C with simple php extension to connect to frontend Oct 06 18:28:00 backend* Oct 06 18:28:01 jacekowski, but this is data streaming -- data which will be coming from the C++ server anyway Oct 06 18:28:14 so they're just adding an extra hop for no good reaso Oct 06 18:28:26 i can't imagine how Oct 06 18:28:32 http server implemented in php? Oct 06 18:28:43 crashanddie: you can sell it better when it includes words like xml and java Oct 06 18:28:49 or they are adding http server and php Oct 06 18:28:56 johnsq, no java in this company, at all Oct 06 18:28:59 johnsq: and bespoke Oct 06 18:29:04 johnsq: cutting edge Oct 06 18:30:40 jacekowski, the web interface comes from a PHP server, nobody is challenging that. It's just that the web interface is populated with data that is being streamed from a server, based on session information, etc. The session is handled by our C++ server. The data is generated and in memory on our C++ server. We already have a process that only does handling arbitrary connections from hundreds of hosts... Oct 06 18:33:34 crashanddie, you are not industry standard compliant until you have got Java! Oct 06 18:33:42 * RST38h explodes in satanic laughter Oct 06 18:34:41 yeah Oct 06 18:34:45 c++ is too fast Oct 06 18:34:48 to* Oct 06 18:35:00 C++ is a dying language, error prine, difficult to code in Oct 06 18:35:05 Go Java go! Oct 06 18:35:48 We can stream to JSON, XML or SOAP, depending on the capabilities of the browser, and generate the javascripts libraries on the fly that allows the browsers to interpret that data... Now they're just going to ask us for XML, and they will translate it to JSON... Oct 06 18:35:55 Just consider the expense of hiring costly C++ programmers and letting them debug code for months! Oct 06 18:36:05 anyway, going for dinner Oct 06 18:36:09 later all, have a good one Oct 06 18:36:11 XML, yes, good Oct 06 18:36:19 XML is good, industry standard Oct 06 18:37:45 * SpeedEvil knows of a 160G XML file. Oct 06 18:38:32 * timeless_xchat kicks xchat Oct 06 18:38:54 xD Oct 06 18:39:17 stealing focus while i'm typing isn't welcome. .. Oct 06 18:39:51 timeless_xchat, hey-ho, MicroB!. :P Oct 06 18:40:21 focus stealing prevention ftw Oct 06 18:40:40 timeless_xchat: :-o stealing focus? Oct 06 18:41:02 i asked it to connect to freenode Oct 06 18:41:16 when it connects, it will join #maemo Oct 06 18:41:35 timeless_xchat: probably you should disable that notification cruft in xchat Oct 06 18:41:39 but before it did, i started typing "/join" Oct 06 18:43:14 except, before i got the "n" typed, it switched to #maemo where i got "normal" (well an "n" with prediction) Oct 06 18:46:04 oh, cool, i have nearly 60k points from finnair Oct 06 18:46:25 * timeless_xchat had been wondering about that for a while Oct 06 18:47:03 timeless_xchat, I like it when MicroB insists on pulling focus to the URL bar when I'm trying to search on Amazon. Oct 06 18:47:46 * timeless_xchat nods Oct 06 18:47:54 SpeedEvil: i have to ask Oct 06 18:48:27 ? Oct 06 18:48:38 oh Oct 06 18:49:00 you can thank http://twitter.com/MeeGoMikko Oct 06 18:49:23 http://planet.openstreetmap.org/planet-latest.osm.bz2 Oct 06 18:51:19 please remind him Oct 06 19:03:02 how do i set the fmtx's region again? Oct 06 19:03:50 * SpeedEvil stabs the UKs infuckingsane mobile mast listing site. Oct 06 19:04:01 I want a list of towers/IDs Oct 06 19:04:08 so I can tell which one I'm connected to. Oct 06 19:04:16 And which way I need to move to get a LOS. Oct 06 19:04:17 impossible after 11/9 Oct 06 19:04:27 It's not. Oct 06 19:04:29 It's there. Oct 06 19:04:32 How does the AGPS service work? Oct 06 19:04:32 It's just web0.1 Oct 06 19:04:47 FauxFaux: $$$ Oct 06 19:04:57 SpeedEvil: opencellid.org? Oct 06 19:05:03 http://www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/ Oct 06 19:05:04 everybody knows terrorists have no money Oct 06 19:05:50 That's pretty amazingly shocking. Oct 06 19:07:06 I think it's designed to be shit. Oct 06 19:07:20 You can't come up with a design that bad by simple incompetence. Oct 06 19:11:14 You can by having more money than god due to selling vapourware and taking the highest bidder, though. Oct 06 19:53:43 SpeedEvil: don't blame UK BTS list, most of Europe doesn't have such thing at all Oct 06 19:53:57 poland does Oct 06 19:54:38 UKE requires operators to provide that, but just with address not gps location Oct 06 19:54:55 SpeedEvil: checked openbmap and similar projects? Oct 06 19:54:58 http://www.katu.com/news/local/104282999.html?ref=morestories Steve-Bill confusion FTW. Oct 06 19:54:59 yes Oct 06 19:55:07 however that law failed and they are not require do provide that in any user friendly format Oct 06 19:55:24 so that data is avaliable on some non friendly website Oct 06 19:55:27 but it's there Oct 06 19:58:12 made a script to disable camera-ui, for those with a stupid school/university Oct 06 19:58:52 what does a school have to do with camera-ui? Oct 06 20:00:47 joga, my school doesn't allow phones with cameras, a simple dialog which shows them it's disables proves they're stupid Oct 06 20:00:55 lol Oct 06 20:01:12 why do they have a say to what features a phone can have Oct 06 20:01:26 becasue they do. Oct 06 20:01:33 terrorists and stuff Oct 06 20:01:33 idk, I still don't follow their stupid rules Oct 06 20:01:37 LOL Oct 06 20:01:49 http://i51.tinypic.com/wwk7yq.jpg is enough for them to believe it's borked Oct 06 20:01:57 MohammadAG: are you looking like a terrorist? Oct 06 20:02:00 in really, it's just a moved /usr/bin/camera-ui, and a dialog Oct 06 20:02:10 do you look like*, nope Oct 06 20:02:29 are you a terrorist? Oct 06 20:02:34 MohammadAG: +1 for cleverness Oct 06 20:03:03 jacekowski, maybe :P Oct 06 20:03:05 Stskeeps, hehehe Oct 06 20:12:59 heh, I could get in deep shit if the school admin notices the app in devel Oct 06 20:13:10 he has an N900, and is quite a noob at using it Oct 06 20:15:26 MohammadAG: Uninstall the package and then copy over the contents, so if he asks to see HAM you can show it's not installed (or create a version not in user/ for your own purposes ;-)) Oct 06 20:15:52 lol Oct 06 20:16:19 he won't ask for HAM, but he'll see my name in the Maintainer field when he browses the repo Oct 06 20:16:24 I doubt he'll notice it Oct 06 20:17:15 MohammadAG, what? You're the only person with your name? "That's not me, it's some kid in Canada." Oct 06 20:18:20 who has my email in the maintainer field? lol Oct 06 20:18:53 * MohammadAG makes another 0.2 version of the script, which isn't in user/ Oct 06 20:19:04 I'll install that on his device, he won't see the 0.1 version in HAM Oct 06 20:19:10 or I could raise that to over 9000 Oct 06 20:19:53 hi Oct 06 20:20:32 would it be safe to optify /usr/include? Oct 06 20:23:12 yep Oct 06 20:23:45 was that "yep" directed at me? Oct 06 20:24:43 is there any app for maemo that allows to do stuff like change profile, turn on vibration etc. depending on my location? Oct 06 20:25:52 there was a project called Shepperd(sp?), i dunno what happened to it Oct 06 20:26:50 TiagoTiago: thx! Oct 06 20:27:28 jacekowski, was that "yep" directed at me? Oct 06 20:27:34 yep Oct 06 20:27:55 ok, thanx Oct 06 20:32:51 alright, cya Oct 06 20:36:50 seems that shepperd is all talk no code ;) Oct 06 20:37:10 shepherd* Oct 06 20:37:25 what is an easy way to get ö, å, Ä on the n900? Oct 06 20:37:33 the three swedish characters? Oct 06 20:37:44 probably find a way to change the keymap Oct 06 20:37:49 on an english layout (I don't want to change language because I can't speak swedish, but I'm learning it) Oct 06 20:38:49 maybe change keymap to add a compose key? Oct 06 20:39:14 i know that under X you can set an 'english international' map which basically gives a lot of language specific characters Oct 06 20:39:38 although afair only western & nothern europe of course Oct 06 20:40:26 http://koo.fi/tech/2009/12/20/n900-scandinavic-letters-from-us-keyboard/ just what I wanted Oct 06 20:41:34 how do I center text in a gtk label? Oct 06 20:41:58 probably by setting justify parameter Oct 06 20:41:59 :) Oct 06 20:42:20 duh :P Oct 06 20:42:53 quit Oct 06 20:43:01 and i guess that you'll want to set it to JUSTIFY_CENTER ;) Oct 06 20:46:28 hmm, getrusage doesn't seem to work correctly :( Oct 06 21:15:51 diaeresis on vkbd IS a composite char Oct 06 21:16:55 vkbd- plus u is Oct 06 21:21:08 DocScrutinizer51: All the third row are composed chars. Oct 06 21:22:04 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=835098#post835098 Oct 06 21:24:01 MohammadAG: can you do a tweaked version. Oct 06 21:24:19 SpeedEvil, shoot Oct 06 21:24:26 MohammadAG: which when you open the shutter with the camera facing downward, simply calls flashlight. Oct 06 21:24:40 If it is not facing downwards, it runs the original camera. Oct 06 21:24:49 hmm, that'd be a bit tricky, and a nice thing to have im Oct 06 21:24:51 imo* Oct 06 21:25:25 afk for a bit though Oct 06 21:27:12 I do not when or how it started, but I can not update or install anything in my N900, I always get this error: "Application list partially refreshed. Some catalogs unavailable." Oct 06 21:35:43 what is the problem with freenode, I keep getting disconnected every two minutes?!! Oct 06 21:36:05 smhar: Works for me. Oct 06 21:36:23 And indeed all of the other 472 people here. Oct 06 21:36:47 Perhaps your problems are linked. Oct 06 21:37:06 might you have a proxy of some form, or a firewall in teh way that's getting in the way of outbound connections. Oct 06 21:37:19 strange, whenever I post my message I get disconnected ! Oct 06 21:37:42 A long message? Oct 06 21:37:46 SpeedEvil, I was not, not sure if my ISP is using a new setup Oct 06 21:37:55 Pastebin it? Oct 06 21:38:08 No, a short one: (((I do not when or how it started, but I can not update or install anything in my N900, I always get this error: "Application list partially refreshed. Some catalogs unavailable."))) Oct 06 21:38:36 ummm... Oct 06 21:38:43 I think there is a details tab. Oct 06 21:38:44 Click on it Oct 06 21:50:30 smhar: try opening a terminal and "sudo apt-get update". That way you'll see which repo's are not responding. Oct 06 21:53:09 mmm.. why is el-v1.db created Oct 06 21:55:22 Any idea how to make x11vnc handle "symbols" that are available on the N900 keyboard only via "Sym"? Oct 06 21:55:26 E.g. & Oct 06 21:59:26 Jaffa: sure, that's been an example Oct 06 22:00:17 if anyone speaks stupid, please translate, I have a hard time understanding: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=834512&postcount=35 Oct 06 22:00:20 Jaffa: I' m convinced man is a thinking species Oct 06 22:00:51 Jaffa: if I give an example, everybody is able to extrapolate and find out about analogies Oct 06 22:02:05 crashanddie: there's a dictionary....too bad it's empty. ;) Oct 06 22:02:13 ( If it is not facing downwards,...) great! Oct 06 22:02:26 triantares: I'm sorry? Oct 06 22:04:19 crashanddie: I couldn't translate if it killed me . ;) Oct 06 22:04:24 MohammadAG51: (facing down) need help? Oct 06 22:05:08 MohammadAG51: actually should be fsckng simple Oct 06 22:05:56 right Oct 06 22:06:18 MohammadAG51: just read out current gmeter values fromn sysfs when camera slider open trigger goes off Oct 06 22:06:40 DocScrutinizer, in psudeo code, read accelerometer values from some file in /sys, if values = face down, do this, else, that Oct 06 22:06:54 now say that in C/C++ :P Oct 06 22:06:59 MohammadAG51: exactly Oct 06 22:07:26 would be easy in python, but with 256MB ram... Oct 06 22:07:27 MohammadAG51: c'mon, I'll leave that to reader for exercise :-P Oct 06 22:08:07 that's really C basics Oct 06 22:08:09 lol Oct 06 22:09:14 I skipped the basics when i learned the syntax Oct 06 22:09:28 * MohammadAG51 looks at book Oct 06 22:09:37 hello world Oct 06 22:09:42 40 pages Oct 06 22:10:06 handle=fopen(path_to_gmeter_sysfsnode, rw); buffer=read(handle); x=sprintf(buffer, somenice%3D) Oct 06 22:10:08 ... Oct 06 22:10:19 I got nfc about C Oct 06 22:11:15 lemme rephrase: I need to read K&R just like you need to do Oct 06 22:11:21 why did i google fopen Oct 06 22:11:25 * MohammadAG51 uses man-db Oct 06 22:11:52 man fopen Oct 06 22:12:03 yes, exactly Oct 06 22:12:07 yeah Oct 06 22:12:18 am i lagging? Oct 06 22:12:27 xchat says there's 19s lag Oct 06 22:12:28 no, me Oct 06 22:12:50 oh Oct 06 22:12:55 brain says there's "TOO MUCH" lag :-D Oct 06 22:13:03 DocScrutinizer: pretty sure your code = segfault Oct 06 22:13:05 * MohammadAG51 prepares corrupt image to reflash router Oct 06 22:13:12 luke-jr_: I bet Oct 06 22:13:24 actually no, compile error Oct 06 22:13:32 nice, a segfaulting example Oct 06 22:13:35 luke-jr_: also you need proper error handling on failing fopen() etc Oct 06 22:13:41 i got that from nokia once Oct 06 22:13:46 DocScrutinizer: any quotes around "rw" Oct 06 22:13:53 DocScrutinizer: and using fread, not read Oct 06 22:13:56 rw for sure is BS Oct 06 22:14:09 yes Oct 06 22:14:14 and not assigning a buffer to a return value Oct 06 22:14:20 and not using sprintf. Oct 06 22:14:31 toldya it's completely nonsensical Oct 06 22:15:02 sprintf is almost always wrong Oct 06 22:15:08 even when someone thinks it's right Oct 06 22:15:22 though, what's wrong with sprintf to dissect a string like "21 443 991" ? Oct 06 22:15:37 sprintf doesn't dissect strings. Oct 06 22:15:51 hmm, maybe Oct 06 22:16:08 was a shot from the hip, of a C senile Oct 06 22:16:26 scanf perhaps? Oct 06 22:16:26 for(x=0;x<10;x++){if(strcmp(sprintf... Oct 06 22:16:42 scanf sounds good, yes Oct 06 22:16:47 SpeedEvil: that's wrong for sure Oct 06 22:16:47 fscanf Oct 06 22:17:05 MohammadAG51: they took the repository offline Oct 06 22:17:22 i'm assuming this is the sysfile? /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord Oct 06 22:17:24 DocScrutinizer: CCnile? Oct 06 22:17:24 strcmp expects a char* argument Oct 06 22:17:28 crashanddie, good enough for me Oct 06 22:17:29 someone mentioned atoi some days ago :-P Oct 06 22:17:31 *printf never return char* Oct 06 22:17:41 nil-e Oct 06 22:18:09 MohammadAG51: yes Oct 06 22:18:16 ehh? repo offline?? Oct 06 22:18:19 kerio: ping Oct 06 22:18:26 kerio: pin Oct 06 22:18:28 g Oct 06 22:18:29 huh? Oct 06 22:18:34 pong Oct 06 22:18:40 Venemo: pong Oct 06 22:18:41 wtf did i do Oct 06 22:18:42 pingpong Oct 06 22:18:43 DocScrutinizer: spanish dudes hosting ovi material and gpl-modified binaries without source code Oct 06 22:18:48 luke-jr: I know, it was not meant as sensible or even compilable code, but as a silly way to get sprintf to read strings. Sorta Oct 06 22:18:49 * luke-jr_ performs MITM on Venemo and kerio Oct 06 22:18:58 BURN IN HELL Oct 06 22:18:59 FEAR NOT! FOR I HAVE SSH! Oct 06 22:19:07 >_> Oct 06 22:19:25 * luke-jr_ presents Venemo with a phony key Oct 06 22:19:27 * MohammadAG51 kicks kerio in the nuts Oct 06 22:19:34 *can he tell teh difference⁇?* Oct 06 22:19:35 * kerio thinks of MITM CPR Oct 06 22:20:01 who's going to tear down that NAND killer backup-menu?? Oct 06 22:20:05 Venemo: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3 Oct 06 22:20:22 no, really, what did i do Oct 06 22:20:29 backupmenu is awesome, for stuff it wasn't made for Oct 06 22:20:43 DocScrutinizer: why? we allow n900fly on extras Oct 06 22:20:45 like preboot ssh, it rescued me from a reflash Oct 06 22:20:49 lol Oct 06 22:21:02 kerio: see QA guidelines Oct 06 22:21:11 and at least you get to keep your warranty with backupmenu :) Oct 06 22:21:16 unlike n900fly Oct 06 22:21:25 what's it do? Oct 06 22:21:36 "it's a software issue! it told me to throw the n900 as high as i could" Oct 06 22:21:50 luke-jr_: backup? writes to NAND raw ifaik Oct 06 22:22:03 so? Oct 06 22:22:06 kerio: thanks for sharing with me eztv. :) this is all I wanted to say Oct 06 22:22:25 luke-jr_, oh nothing much Oct 06 22:22:36 let's just say it almost bricked my N900 permanently Oct 06 22:22:45 fun. Oct 06 22:22:56 NAND has arbitrary bad blocks, writing raw is like dodging bird shot Oct 06 22:22:58 OMG CALL THE **AA Oct 06 22:23:08 *shit Oct 06 22:23:19 i had to boot a modified kernel to boot from the microSD, then ran from ubuntu cat /dev/zero to /dev/mtd5 then used flash_erase Oct 06 22:23:29 then used flasher 6 times, till it worked Oct 06 22:23:36 lol Oct 06 22:23:51 what's the proc file for bad mtd blocks again? Oct 06 22:23:53 so again: Oct 06 22:23:56 who's going to tear down that NAND killer backup-menu?? Oct 06 22:24:21 * MohammadAG51 has it installed Oct 06 22:24:32 till someone provides a preboot ssh alternative Oct 06 22:25:47 tbh I don't really get it why it's so nasty. But it seems you can brick (SIC!) your N900 with it easily Oct 06 22:26:15 you'd think NOLO should know how to reformat a NAND and reflash a proper rootfs Oct 06 22:27:26 MohammadAG51: flash_erase probably is one of the tools that knows how to deal with and mark bad blocks in NAND Oct 06 22:27:39 … Oct 06 22:27:55 NOLO is part of NAND Oct 06 22:28:00 luke-jr_: ??? Oct 06 22:28:04 if it erases NAND, then it erases NOLO Oct 06 22:28:11 luke-jr_: yes, we all know Oct 06 22:28:15 and AFAIK, all badblock management is done by the ubi driver Oct 06 22:28:22 yes Oct 06 22:28:29 i used it on mtd5 Oct 06 22:28:46 though prolly not initial bb-markup on formatting Oct 06 22:28:48 which is the rootfs Oct 06 22:29:22 MohammadAG51, since pr1.1 theres a boot time hole on all devices Oct 06 22:29:27 luke-jr_: if you hose the mtd which holds NOLO you got a different class of problem Oct 06 22:29:39 lcuk, yep, I know Oct 06 22:29:59 wtf is a boottime hole? Oct 06 22:30:16 isnt that the cleanest place to hook a rescue script to? Oct 06 22:30:39 lcuk: bootmenu? sure Oct 06 22:30:42 DocScrutinizer, a script stored on / is run on bootup if it exists and the keyboard is open Oct 06 22:30:52 true, but when dsme kills a device i can't hook a rescue script :) Oct 06 22:31:05 most people get into a boot loop Oct 06 22:31:14 yes, but it MUST NOT write to mtd raw physical device Oct 06 22:31:17 ~2119 Oct 06 22:31:18 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Oct 06 22:33:21 lcuk: unlike mmc the mtd NAND raw devices have no layer between system and bad blocks on silicon Oct 06 22:33:35 ubifs is dealing with that Oct 06 22:33:50 that's why writing raw to mtd fails usually Oct 06 22:34:24 it writes bad block marks to perfectly good blocks, and tries to use bad blocks like they were ok Oct 06 22:34:45 result: borked rootfs Oct 06 22:35:25 DocScrutinizer, the issue you are mentioning isn't normally an issue but the rescue script principle itself has been highlighted forever Oct 06 22:35:42 isnt the mtd normally only written by flashing tool? Oct 06 22:35:48 sorry? please rephrase Oct 06 22:35:48 with its checksums and stuff? Oct 06 22:36:21 lcuk, backupmenu used dd Oct 06 22:36:31 to mtd aiui Oct 06 22:37:11 /dev/mtd? to be precise Oct 06 22:37:27 which sends ubifs out of the door Oct 06 22:38:02 destructive confirmed high risk system halting app on -devel? Oct 06 22:38:26 yes Oct 06 22:38:40 bricking app even Oct 06 22:38:56 and you don't just mean modern bricking I gather? Oct 06 22:39:01 /dev/mtd5 Oct 06 22:39:03 and I know how to use "brick" Oct 06 22:39:08 writing to /dev/mtd would brick Oct 06 22:39:32 writing to mtd5 would semibrick Oct 06 22:39:45 you just have to use awesome timing and flashing skills :p Oct 06 22:39:49 still I dunno why NOLO, on flashing rootfs, doesn't succeed to just fix the shit Oct 06 22:40:03 but obviously it doesn't, at least not that easily Oct 06 22:41:24 anyway dd if=foo of=/dev/mtd5 is a *BAD* thing, and I'm asking again: Oct 06 22:41:39 who's going to tear down that NAND killer backup-menu?? Oct 06 22:43:04 nobody Oct 06 22:43:08 :P Oct 06 22:43:27 DocScrutinizer, send a mail to X-Fade and the council, let it be discussed properly. Oct 06 22:44:15 lcuk: I never used backup-menu and I'm not temped to do in near future, so all I can contribute is mere handwaving Oct 06 22:45:29 :) sometimes hand waving is all thats needed. Oct 06 22:45:58 well, this here is as much handwaving as you'll see from my side Oct 06 22:46:35 obviously there are guys in better position to kick off this thing proper Oct 06 22:47:03 and I know how to use "brick" Oct 06 22:47:44 lcuk: still I dunno why NOLO, on flashing rootfs, doesn't succeed to just fix the shit Oct 06 22:48:24 ffs, Jaffa if you read this in the morning, please review scrollback Oct 06 22:49:09 or X-Fade or any other council peeps Oct 06 22:49:22 can you see if there is reason to temporarily revoke this app from repository incase of a coding bug. Oct 06 22:49:45 DocScrutinizer believes its enough of a worry that it may brick brick devices Oct 06 22:51:16 night Oct 06 22:51:31 nigght moh Oct 06 22:55:25 lcuk: I've never looked into backup-menu app, and all my statements here are based on other factoids reported by MohammadAG51 nad others. I'm not feeling like doing a deep inspection if moh's "dd of=/dev/mtd5" is correct (and fatal), nor if any of the other assumptions is according to hard facts Oct 06 22:56:13 but if it rally is doing a dd to raw physical NAND, then there's obviously an issue as NAND has bad blocks that are dealt with in ubifs Oct 06 23:06:01 writing to /dev/mtd* like it's a block device is just pure lunacy :/ Oct 06 23:06:32 hmm... what if you just *read* from it? Oct 06 23:06:46 that might work Oct 06 23:06:49 "work" Oct 06 23:07:05 but it's not a block device, normal block device semantics don't apply Oct 06 23:07:06 would an hypotetical dd if=/dev/mtd of=file; dd if=file of=/dev/mtd work? Oct 06 23:07:23 I wouldn't trust it Oct 06 23:07:26 not always Oct 06 23:07:29 on the same /dev/mtd of course Oct 06 23:07:35 The writing might just be a bitwise AND operation Oct 06 23:07:50 it fails as soon as you change device, or your NAND earns a new bad block Oct 06 23:08:02 because the kernel probably doesn't erase stuff for you, normal block device semantics don't apply Oct 06 23:08:21 yes, that too Oct 06 23:08:34 There's a kernel module for when you want to treat it as a block device, or when you want to emulate mtd on a block device Oct 06 23:08:39 you need to earse first. That's all ubifs domain Oct 06 23:09:08 But whether using the block device emulation to do read/write actually results in the same data on the raw mtd is another question.. Oct 06 23:09:15 ubifs <3 Oct 06 23:09:52 FFS, writing dd to /dev/mtd is as *WRONG* as it can get, anyway Oct 06 23:10:11 ubifs also keeps track of erased/partially erased/not erased blocks, and if you write to every one of them in a "restore" operation, they all become non-erased behind ubifs' back Oct 06 23:10:20 and if that's what backup-menu does, then we need to tear it down Oct 06 23:11:18 ShadowJK: true, but irrelevant in our case, as backup-menu is supposed to restore a whole rootfs prior to mandatory reboot Oct 06 23:11:58 aiui Oct 06 23:12:32 isn't an erased block just one with all 1s? Oct 06 23:12:43 or 0's Oct 06 23:12:43 you just dd'd crap to the entire device, even if you've done a read-image write-iamge cycle without anything in between, you've actually changed the state of the device as tracked by the filesystem inside the image Oct 06 23:12:54 depending on silicon technology Oct 06 23:13:18 ShadowJK: yes Oct 06 23:14:16 * luke-jr_ wonders if there's any NAND counter app that just uses a single NAND block to efficiently count a number Oct 06 23:14:32 eg, counting 11111111, 11111110, 11111100, 11111000, etc Oct 06 23:20:55 wtf is a "single NAND block" you can have a single gate, you can have an fpga cell, but what's a block? and if you mean an fpga cell who's and which version and are you sure it's nand? Oct 06 23:21:41 (and you can't store 8 bits in "a" anything, much less a 7400 ic...) Oct 06 23:23:19 The individual bits are implemented as a NAND gate. Oct 06 23:23:30 However, you can only erase ~128K at once Oct 06 23:23:42 and write only ones. Oct 06 23:23:55 lol I should have read more than what luke-jr said Oct 06 23:24:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#NAND_flash Oct 06 23:33:40 luke-jr_: you can flash 00000001, 00000011, 00000111..., as - like SpeedEvil says - you erase to zero, not to one, afaik Oct 06 23:34:22 in a much larger scale that's what NAND write optimization does (as found in ubifs) Oct 06 23:35:19 it's just not erasing a whole 128k block for each 512 byte sector write, but remembers which 'sectors' are 'erased' so can be written safely Oct 07 00:07:25 ok, confirmed by 2 other guys who know a bit about that: you *can not* flash a raw image to NAND with dd. You need to erase the whole section you want to write before dd, and if there's any new bad block or the image was from completely different NAND hw chip, then you'll fail as well Oct 07 00:11:05 ubifs does sw bb handling Oct 07 01:41:07 ~botsnack Oct 07 01:41:08 :), DocScrutinizer Oct 07 01:41:18 ~bark Oct 07 01:41:18 * infobot barks, like a rabid dog. Oct 07 01:41:47 ~moo Oct 07 01:41:48 * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass Oct 07 01:42:14 *yawn* n8 folks **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 07 02:53:27 2010 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 07 02:59:56 2010