**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 12 02:59:57 2010
Oct 12 03:56:36 <TiagoTiago> hi
Oct 12 04:03:16 * TiagoTiago hears crickets
Oct 12 04:04:58 <johnx> crickets hear TiagoTiago
Oct 12 04:05:32 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 12 04:06:12 <johnx> oh, it's no laughing matter. they'll wait until you're not paying attention, then ... *WHAM* they've got ya
Oct 12 04:06:28 <TiagoTiago> i see
Oct 12 04:22:24 <TiagoTiago> Are the N900 speakers, with the default mixer, capable of prducing the (in)famous "Moskito tone" ?
Oct 12 04:24:01 <TiagoTiago> or is it "Mosquito"?
Oct 12 04:24:13 <wmarone> Mosquito
Oct 12 04:24:18 <TiagoTiago> ok
Oct 12 04:24:29 <ech0Asus> hey all
Oct 12 04:30:19 <TiagoTiago> hi
Oct 12 04:37:26 <TiagoTiago> Why with X-Chat i see all the join/quit msgs but with Chatzilla i don't?
Oct 12 04:40:43 <wmarone> because xchat is a real IRC client
Oct 12 04:41:22 <TiagoTiago> but isn't the channel set to "conference mode", that is supposed to silence those msgs?
Oct 12 04:44:22 <MohammadAG51> no, use /ignore to filer them out
Oct 12 04:44:55 <TiagoTiago> but why i do see those msgs in Chatzilla in other channels?
Oct 12 04:47:49 <TiagoTiago> oh
Oct 12 04:48:50 <TiagoTiago> ok, i've googled "conference mode" and that is actually a feature in Chatzill, it automaticly kicks in in channels with more than N people in it, the default for N being 150
Oct 12 04:50:38 <TiagoTiago> never noticed it saying anything about it being a Cz feature, i always assumed that was a regular option in IRC servers....
Oct 12 04:52:49 <johnx> TiagoTiago, it's an option for IRC clients. you can probably turn off the messages in xchat if you want
Oct 12 04:53:40 <TiagoTiago> nah, itms alright, i like seeing those msgs, i'll disable that on my Cz later
Oct 12 04:54:36 <TiagoTiago> i asked because i had assumed it was an IRC server functionality and i was trying to understand why different clients reacted diffwrently to it
Oct 12 05:12:11 <RST38h> heya johnx
Oct 12 05:12:22 <johnx> m00f RST38h
Oct 12 05:13:27 <TiagoTiago> ~conference mode
Oct 12 05:13:40 <TiagoTiago> balls :/
Oct 12 05:47:11 <TiagoTiago> i think i'll go sleep, cya
Oct 12 07:11:45 <bef0rd> ck z
Oct 12 08:00:06 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Oct 12 08:00:27 <Stskeeps> morn
Oct 12 08:01:33 <RST38h> Mourning stskeep
Oct 12 08:01:36 <RST38h> s
Oct 12 08:01:42 <Stskeeps> indeed
Oct 12 08:02:26 <vdv> i've problem with keyboard remapping on my n900, i just don't understand how Fn+Left can be bound to Escape if it's already is used as "Up"?
Oct 12 08:02:54 <vdv> i.e. in factory default Fn+Left is Arrow Up for me
Oct 12 08:03:39 <vdv> now i've changed rx-51 to remap Fn+Left to Escape, but it still produces Arrow Up
Oct 12 08:04:53 <vdv> ah, i just have a keyboard with only two physically arrow keys
Oct 12 08:12:55 <vltR> t.m.o dead?
Oct 12 08:22:31 <johnx> vltR, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/talk.maemo.org
Oct 12 08:51:22 <PontusOhman> Anyone knows which file to edit to remove the darn BusyBox message?! Is it the /etc/motd file or not?
Oct 12 08:53:31 <alterego> MohammadAG51: any chance of a patch for custom keyboard shortcuts? I'll do it if you think it's worth it.
Oct 12 09:11:16 <ilius> how to became root inside scratchbox?
Oct 12 09:11:31 <ilius> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > sudo apt-get install xserver-xephyr
Oct 12 09:11:32 <ilius> sudo: must be setuid root
Oct 12 09:12:20 <ieatlint> fakeroot
Oct 12 09:12:40 <ieatlint> haven't used scratchbox in a few weeks, but "fakeroot apt-get ..." as i recall
Oct 12 09:13:19 <ilius> ieatlint: thanks
Oct 12 09:14:30 <pupnik_> thank you ubuntu for making 'sudo' an easy way to identify linux n00bs on job applications
Oct 12 09:15:13 <ieatlint> pupnik_: how's that?
Oct 12 09:15:58 <TermanaN900> ieatlint, you should never need sudo
Oct 12 09:16:11 <TermanaN900> only pussies log in as anything but root
Oct 12 09:16:14 <TermanaN900> :p
Oct 12 09:16:16 <ieatlint> :P
Oct 12 09:16:35 <ieatlint> i've got probably 4 terminals open to root on my local machine right now, so i totally agree
Oct 12 09:16:54 <BCMM> ieatlint: real ones?
Oct 12 09:16:55 <BCMM> or screen?
Oct 12 09:17:22 <BCMM> also, do you guys run your IRC clients as root?
Oct 12 09:17:35 <ieatlint> ptty i guess... not based on login
Oct 12 09:17:46 <ieatlint> and no, i'm not an idiot
Oct 12 09:17:53 <ieatlint> i don't run chat programs, browsers, etc as root
Oct 12 09:18:23 <pupnik> ieatlint: it's not useless, but "sudo" wasn't in use by anyone when i learned unix and later linux.  It's not a canonical linux command.
Oct 12 09:18:26 <pupnik> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oct 12 09:18:26 <pupnik> get it?
Oct 12 09:18:44 <ieatlint> that's the worst pun i've heard in hours :P
Oct 12 09:18:56 <pupnik> :)
Oct 12 09:19:11 <ieatlint> and yeah, sudo was not in popular use when i learnt linux, and i'm still far more likely to use a root shell than sudo, heh
Oct 12 09:19:41 <TermanaN900> pupnik, ha.
Oct 12 09:19:42 <pupnik> there's more than one way to do it
Oct 12 09:20:23 <johnx> BCMM, real, physical VT102s :)
Oct 12 09:20:30 <BCMM> hah
Oct 12 09:20:41 <BCMM> yeah, i suppose the linux console isn't a real terminal either
Oct 12 09:20:54 <ieatlint> i was recently told that an interesting way to test someone's competency is to give them a root console on a box with no internet access, type "chmod -x /bin/chmod" and tell them to fix it
Oct 12 09:21:18 <johnx> sorry about the slow response, the other VT is busy, so I'm stuck on the line printer :/
Oct 12 09:21:42 * johnx promptly breaks chmod
Oct 12 09:22:01 <Stskeeps> ieatlint: with gcc it's easy
Oct 12 09:22:02 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 12 09:22:05 <BCMM> ieatlint: well, it's a terrible solution, but off the top of my head, you could cp chmod to a filesystem where everything was executable
Oct 12 09:22:16 <Myrtti> I guess I'm a noob then... oh well.
Oct 12 09:22:55 <ieatlint> there are a LOT of solutions... which is kind of the point
Oct 12 09:23:05 <ieatlint> Stskeeps: and do you mean by just writing your own chmod?
Oct 12 09:23:07 <pupnik> i'd remount with a different mask
Oct 12 09:23:13 <pupnik> i think
Oct 12 09:23:22 <ieatlint> using sys/stat.h chmod()..
Oct 12 09:23:26 <Stskeeps> ieatlint: right
Oct 12 09:23:39 <BCMM> johnx: that's a great image, now i'm sure that ieatlint has at least five VT100s, arranged on a curved desk
Oct 12 09:23:45 <TermanaN900> ieatlint, you couldn't write your own, how are you going to make it executable without chmod?
Oct 12 09:23:48 <ieatlint> pupnik: the the idea is also not to fuck up other things on the system... remounting with executable permissions is not ideal
Oct 12 09:24:05 <johnx> BCMM, and he slides his 60's rolly chair between them, clacking away on the keyboards
Oct 12 09:24:06 <ieatlint> TermanaN900: gcc outputs programs with +x already
Oct 12 09:24:12 <vis> huh, vt100, that is some luxus hardware. i only have vt52
Oct 12 09:24:16 <TermanaN900> ieatlint, ah
Oct 12 09:24:31 <pupnik> nice question ieatlint
Oct 12 09:24:51 <TermanaN900> personally if it was just my personal box I'd just reboot into a live system, mount the file system and fix it
Oct 12 09:24:51 <ieatlint> my solution was this: "cp /bin/ls ~/blah; cat /bin/chmod > ~/blah; blah +x /bin/chmod"
Oct 12 09:25:07 <TermanaN900> :p but I guess that's not what would be looked for
Oct 12 09:25:10 <ieatlint> but yes, you can write a replacement to chmod in c, python, php, or many other languages
Oct 12 09:25:16 <BCMM> ieatlint: oh, that seems kinda obvious now...
Oct 12 09:25:18 <johnx> seriously, you guys need to do more packaging ;)
Oct 12 09:25:21 <johnx> don't you have install?
Oct 12 09:25:54 <johnx> install -m 755 ./chmod ./chmod-foo
Oct 12 09:26:07 <ieatlint> TermanaN900: well, i bastardised explaining the situation... the idea is that you had to do this on a production machine that can't go down, etc
Oct 12 09:26:50 <TermanaN900> ieatlint, right :p which is why i said my own personal machine and "this isn't the solution that would be looked for" ;)
Oct 12 09:26:53 <ieatlint> pupnik: but yeah, i've never been asked the question in an interview, but it's supposed to be one that lets people actually think and come up with creative solutions
Oct 12 09:29:25 <ieatlint> apparently there are an insane number of solutions...
Oct 12 09:29:30 <pupnik> argh ieatlint - nice one
Oct 12 09:29:32 <johnx> I bet
Oct 12 09:30:10 <johnx> though ... reinstalling the package comes to mind :)
Oct 12 09:31:05 <johnx> If I was interviewing someone and the qualifier was 'on a production system' I think I'd be happy to hear that 'non-creative' answer ;)
Oct 12 09:31:33 <BCMM> ieatlint: well yeah, there are also a load of file managers that let you modify permissions
Oct 12 09:31:51 <ieatlint> johnx: that assumes that they have it cached on the system
Oct 12 09:32:19 <johnx> ieatlint, why? did inet access go away as well?
Oct 12 09:32:30 <nidO> johnx that was the very first restriction
Oct 12 09:32:48 * johnx sheepishly scrolls back to re-read ...
Oct 12 09:32:57 <ieatlint> eh, the scenario is that you can't go online... it's a very hypothetical question, not a real world scenario :P
Oct 12 09:33:30 <johnx> for sure :) I just didn't read carefully
Oct 12 09:33:57 <ieatlint> this is also one of the most sane answers i've seen, and i was completely unfamiliar with it... just run "/lib/ld-2.11.2.so /bin/chmod +x /bin/chmod"
Oct 12 09:34:06 <ieatlint> (adjusting the ld version, etc)
Oct 12 09:34:18 <TermanaN900> how about this - fix the permissions on a machine after "chmod 4777 -R /"
Oct 12 09:34:20 <Stskeeps> i thought that'd be ld-linux.so though
Oct 12 09:34:21 <johnx> I was thinking something like that should work
Oct 12 09:34:24 * TermanaN900 cackles
Oct 12 09:35:02 <ieatlint> TermanaN900: you're just fucked there
Oct 12 09:35:10 <TermanaN900> ieatlint, i know :p
Oct 12 09:35:12 <ieatlint> it's not realistic to try and fix that :P
Oct 12 09:35:22 <johnx> assuming your package manageing system is good, it's not *totally* impossible
Oct 12 09:35:47 <johnx> lots of by-hand work though
Oct 12 09:35:59 <TermanaN900> johnx, do you do packaging for a distro or something?
Oct 12 09:36:01 <TermanaN900> :p
Oct 12 09:36:18 <johnx> TermanaN900, I did mer for a while :)
Oct 12 09:36:42 <johnx> then realized that running a distro, or even a fork of a distro, is *totally insane*
Oct 12 09:36:49 <TermanaN900> johnx, if I asked you how will the world end, you would start "well if you start up your package manager..."
Oct 12 09:36:55 <TermanaN900> :p
Oct 12 09:37:24 <johnx> I believe in relying on my tools as much as possible so I can be maximally lazy
Oct 12 09:37:36 <TermanaN900> heh :p
Oct 12 09:37:42 <ieatlint> that's a good policy :P
Oct 12 09:37:56 <johnx> one of the virtues of a programmer (or sysadmin...)
Oct 12 09:38:12 <ieatlint> someone who will spend 12 hours finding a way to automate something in a reliable and sane way instead of the 15min to do it by hand is going to win :P
Oct 12 09:38:42 <vdv> i want to swap Ctrl and Backspace key positions, is that a bad idea?
Oct 12 09:38:52 <superchode> gents. have an e-mail question/problem.
Oct 12 09:39:07 <superchode> does anyone get a 'not available on server' error when trying to access mail?
Oct 12 09:39:18 <vdv> backspace is under "common_keys" category and Ctrl under "modifiers" category
Oct 12 09:39:18 <johnx> vdv, the keys aren't removable ;)
Oct 12 09:39:27 <TermanaN900> lol
Oct 12 09:39:33 <vdv> johnx, not physically :)
Oct 12 09:39:40 <vdv> but just mappings
Oct 12 09:39:41 <superchode> i have two mail accounts set up on the N900... both access gmail accounts. one works perfectly, the other kicks out 'not available on server' errors a lot.
Oct 12 09:39:53 <DocScrutinizer2> ieatlint: bah, busybox to the rescue XP
Oct 12 09:40:04 <johnx> vdv, aaaah, got it. no problem. xmodmap is probably your friend unless it's not :) at the very least a reboot will fix anything you do with xmodmap
Oct 12 09:40:08 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer2: another good solution :P
Oct 12 09:40:15 <johnx> superchode, POP3 or IMAP?
Oct 12 09:40:19 <superchode> IMAP
Oct 12 09:40:31 <DocScrutinizer2> the FIRST good use for messybox I ever found :-P
Oct 12 09:40:46 <johnx> superchode, and other machines accessing that account don't have problems?
Oct 12 09:41:20 <superchode> no. i can log into gmail any time from a browser (n900 or PC) and access the mail account
Oct 12 09:41:24 <TermanaN900> DocScrutinizer, busybox!? That's a worse answer than recommending the slap chop / sham wow guy fix it :p
Oct 12 09:41:40 <DocScrutinizer> also there's been some elf-loader you could cal much the same way like a python interpreter or whatever
Oct 12 09:42:23 <DocScrutinizer> linldr chmod
Oct 12 09:42:43 <vdv> johnx, you mean perhaps xkbcomp
Oct 12 09:42:54 <DocScrutinizer> if only I'd find the name
Oct 12 09:43:09 <johnx> vdv, I don't think I meant that. :) but that might work as well
Oct 12 09:45:21 <DocScrutinizer> you probably also can cp, or ln, or whatever chmod and during that change to +x
Oct 12 09:45:41 <DocScrutinizer> mc probably megaeasy
Oct 12 09:46:11 <ieatlint> oh god, you just suggested mc? :P
Oct 12 09:46:23 <DocScrutinizer> YESSIR!
Oct 12 09:46:28 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, install was what I used ;)
Oct 12 09:46:44 <ieatlint> what are the odds any production machine has mc installed? hehe
Oct 12 09:46:58 <DocScrutinizer> depends on sysop
Oct 12 09:47:04 <DocScrutinizer> mine has :-P
Oct 12 09:47:29 <ieatlint> is this where you argue that a sysop that's going to remove execute permissions of chmod is the sysop who will have mc? :P
Oct 12 09:47:36 <johnx> if you're on DocScrutinizer's machine you'll find a nice cozy mc. if you're on mine, you may find mc aliased to rm -rf $HOME
Oct 12 09:48:08 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: I argue a sysop that removes x from chmod needs to be removed from duty
Oct 12 09:48:30 <ieatlint> isn't that what i just said?
Oct 12 09:50:22 <DocScrutinizer> btw who said "production"?
Oct 12 09:51:20 <ieatlint> see, i ask one question and rile up the whole channel :)
Oct 12 09:52:10 <johnx> hmm, should be able to just hexedit the raw filesystem on disk :)
Oct 12 09:53:25 <ieatlint> indeed, just pull up the inode and a calculator
Oct 12 09:53:29 <ieatlint> just need to flip one bit
Oct 12 09:54:00 <kerio> mc rules
Oct 12 09:54:19 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Oct 12 09:54:24 <DocScrutinizer> (gdb) run
Oct 12 09:54:25 <DocScrutinizer> Starting program: /root/x
Oct 12 09:54:27 <DocScrutinizer> /bin/bash: /root/x: Permission denied
Oct 12 09:54:35 <kerio> what is x?
Oct 12 09:54:45 <johnx> if you pass init=/foo/bar to linux, I wonder if it checks if bar is executable ...
Oct 12 09:54:49 <DocScrutinizer> a copy of chmod as it happens :-P
Oct 12 09:55:23 <kerio> johnx: heh, rebooting to use chmod?
Oct 12 09:55:42 <johnx> kerio, or do it in a vm/qemu/whatever is available
Oct 12 09:55:46 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: good point :-)
Oct 12 09:56:10 <kerio> can't you just write a program that uses the chmod syscall?
Oct 12 09:56:13 <DocScrutinizer> (hexedit)
Oct 12 09:56:47 <DocScrutinizer> sure, a python 10 liner for example
Oct 12 09:56:57 <ieatlint> python 1 line :P
Oct 12 09:57:02 <johnx> kerio, yup. but someone beat you to that answer :) your answer needs to be original
Oct 12 09:57:24 <kerio> ieatlint: import os; os.system("/bin/chmod whatever")?
Oct 12 09:57:34 <ieatlint> ok, so 2 lines.. :P
Oct 12 09:57:36 <DocScrutinizer> hahahahaaaaaaaaaa
Oct 12 09:57:44 <DocScrutinizer> try it!!!!
Oct 12 09:58:00 <ieatlint> can also use tar
Oct 12 09:58:06 <kerio> i thought chmod was a shell command :|
Oct 12 09:58:08 <ieatlint> probably rsync
Oct 12 09:58:09 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Oct 12 09:58:10 <TermanaN900> kerio, that wouldn't work
Oct 12 09:58:34 <TermanaN900> (the two liner)
Oct 12 09:58:37 <ieatlint> oh, i misread what kerio wrote... s/os.system/os.chmod/
Oct 12 09:58:47 <kerio> there's a os.chmod?
Oct 12 09:58:49 <kerio> wtf
Oct 12 09:59:05 <ieatlint> err, actually "os.chmod( '/bin/chmod', 0755 )"
Oct 12 09:59:41 <ieatlint> and yeah, chmod is a standard c function in sys/stat.h (man 2 chmod for docs)
Oct 12 10:00:37 <kerio> a sysadmin that does chmod a-x chmod is not going to have gcc or python installed
Oct 12 10:00:50 <kerio> i mean, unless he's an idiot
Oct 12 10:01:04 <ieatlint> python likely would be
Oct 12 10:01:16 <kerio> ieatlint: not really
Oct 12 10:01:27 <kerio> if we're talking about a really hardened box
Oct 12 10:01:41 <ieatlint> ok, i stand by my solution :)
Oct 12 10:02:50 <BCMM> chmod is a standard c function and a program who's primary purpose is to call it
Oct 12 10:02:59 <TermanaN900> kerio, where was it ever required to be a hardened box? :p It just couldn't go online and couldn't go down. Expanding on the original requirements doesn't make sense. I hope you never interview me (:p)
Oct 12 10:02:59 <BCMM> like stat, and various other things
Oct 12 10:03:20 <kerio> i started reading at the mention of mc
Oct 12 10:03:40 <kerio> i have no idea what's before that in the scrollback
Oct 12 10:03:56 <ieatlint> TermanaN900: eh, the whole point of the question is to stir up creative thought/discussion
Oct 12 10:04:13 <ieatlint> commenting that those solutions, while valid in principal, may not be workable on many systems is valid
Oct 12 10:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> halley:~ # cp `which chmod` x; halley:~ # cp `which date` y; halley:~ # ./y Tue Oct 12 11:59:27 CEST 2010 halley:~ # cat ./x >./y; halley:~ # ./y --help Usage: ./y [OPTION]... MODE[,MODE]... FILE...
Oct 12 10:04:43 <kerio> DocScrutinizer: you're root
Oct 12 10:04:43 <kerio> duh
Oct 12 10:05:07 <kerio> you're not going to have write access as a user to a partition without noexec
Oct 12 10:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> err sorry? was the task now to use chmod on chmod WITHOUT ROOT  PRIV??
Oct 12 10:05:58 <TermanaN900> ieatlint, no not defy me! :P kidding
Oct 12 10:05:59 <kerio> i have no idea what's the task :|
Oct 12 10:06:04 <TermanaN900> do not*
Oct 12 10:06:12 <RobbieThe1st> Hi all
Oct 12 10:06:13 <Myrtti> have a cookie.
Oct 12 10:06:18 <kerio> can i have a cookie
Oct 12 10:06:23 <johnx> hallo RobbieThe1st
Oct 12 10:06:24 <kerio> ???????????????????????????????????
Oct 12 10:06:30 <Myrtti> you can all have a cookie if you just move on ;-)
Oct 12 10:06:39 <kerio> i read that as "RobbieTheist"
Oct 12 10:06:49 <RobbieThe1st> :P
Oct 12 10:07:03 <DocScrutinizer> oh, forgot to mention: halley:~ # ./x -bash: ./x: Permission denied
Oct 12 10:07:16 <TermanaN900> Myrtti, are you kidding? we have nothing better to do :p
Oct 12 10:07:18 <ieatlint> Myrtti: telling geeks to move on is one of those truly hopeless requests..
Oct 12 10:07:40 <Myrtti> ieatlint: I know, but it doesn't hurt to try
Oct 12 10:07:41 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: so do "./y 0755 ./x" :P
Oct 12 10:08:07 <ieatlint> although at that point, you'd just end up with two executable local copies of chmod, ./x and ./y
Oct 12 10:08:17 <DocScrutinizer> halley:~ # ./y 0755 ./x
Oct 12 10:08:18 <DocScrutinizer> halley:~ # ./x
Oct 12 10:08:20 <DocScrutinizer> ./x: missing operand
Oct 12 10:08:30 <RobbieThe1st> ... Why are we copying chmod again?
Oct 12 10:08:38 <ieatlint> lol
Oct 12 10:09:08 <RobbieThe1st> Remember, even if "chmod" is missing, you can always just type "busybox chmod ..."
Oct 12 10:09:27 <johnx> RobbieThe1st, we're just having fun tackling a hypothetical problem :)
Oct 12 10:09:35 <DocScrutinizer> NOT ON *ANY* OF MY MACHINES :-S
Oct 12 10:09:45 <ieatlint> and busybox is a potential solution
Oct 12 10:09:46 <DocScrutinizer> ~messybox
Oct 12 10:09:46 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Oct 12 10:09:49 <TermanaN900> DocScrutinizer, just your N900
Oct 12 10:10:13 <ieatlint> i don't think busybox's chmod has any fewer features than the standard /bin/chmod
Oct 12 10:10:21 <johnx> RobbieThe1st, this is what started it:
Oct 12 10:10:23 <johnx> <ieatlint> i was recently told that an interesting way to test someone's competency is to give them a root console on a box with no internet access, type "chmod -x /bin/chmod" and tell them to fix it
Oct 12 10:10:40 <Myrtti> oh no, you're spreading it around...
Oct 12 10:10:41 <RobbieThe1st> ieatlint: That's cause it -is- busybox chmod. Just symlinked
Oct 12 10:10:47 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st: chmod a-x `which chmod`
Oct 12 10:10:53 <ieatlint> RobbieThe1st: uh, the n900 it is
Oct 12 10:11:04 <johnx> Myrtti, it has good viral ability :)
Oct 12 10:11:20 <ieatlint> haha, i made you all think
Oct 12 10:11:49 <TermanaN900> RobbieThe1st, we're discussing generally, not on the N900. I doubt it would be a requirement for an N900 not to go down :p
Oct 12 10:11:50 <Myrtti> huh?
Oct 12 10:12:05 <RobbieThe1st> Fair enough,
Oct 12 10:12:07 * Myrtti doesn't think of anything other than pinnk yarn
Oct 12 10:12:22 <DocScrutinizer> RobbieThe1st:
Oct 12 10:12:23 <RobbieThe1st> So, what's the answer? I'm interested now?
Oct 12 10:12:24 <DocScrutinizer> halley:~ # file `which chmod`
Oct 12 10:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> /bin/chmod: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, stripped
Oct 12 10:12:44 <DocScrutinizer> a lot of answers
Oct 12 10:12:51 <TermanaN900> RobbieThe1st, the channel has come up with a lot of answers - check the log
Oct 12 10:13:06 <RobbieThe1st> I joined after that, though...?
Oct 12 10:13:11 <jacekowski> 42
Oct 12 10:13:16 <DocScrutinizer> so I like my "cat `which chmod` >arbitrary executable
Oct 12 10:13:22 <ieatlint> topic has a link to channel logs if you're bored enough to read it
Oct 12 10:13:34 <TermanaN900> RobbieThe1st, mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog
Oct 12 10:14:17 <johnx> RobbieThe1st, the log is in the topic :)
Oct 12 10:14:24 <johnx> it's public
Oct 12 10:14:28 <RobbieThe1st> Yea, I'm lookin
Oct 12 10:14:35 <DocScrutinizer> the answer to use mc was discussed controversial
Oct 12 10:14:52 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Oct 12 10:14:56 <ieatlint> hehe
Oct 12 10:15:10 <ieatlint> try suggesting emacs next
Oct 12 10:15:20 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Oct 12 10:15:22 <johnx> some winners: cat /bin/chmod > file-with-exec-permissions. install -m 755 chmod chmod-foo. hexedit the fs on disk. use the chmod syscall from your language of choice
Oct 12 10:15:52 <johnx> and /lib/ld-linux.so /bin/chmod +x /bin/chmod  (that's IIRC)
Oct 12 10:16:14 <johnx> still looking for original answers, that aren't just variations on a theme :)
Oct 12 10:16:19 <DocScrutinizer> ld-linux!!!!!
Oct 12 10:16:40 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: thanks
Oct 12 10:17:15 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-10-12 11:39:26] <DocScrutinizer> also there's been some elf-loader you could cal much the same way like a python interpreter or whatever
Oct 12 10:17:17 <BCMM> johnx: anything wrong with "use a file manager"?
Oct 12 10:17:21 <TermanaN900> johnx, you forgot busybox. DocScrutinizer has it installed on all his machines
Oct 12 10:17:28 <BCMM> (needn't be graphical or anything)
Oct 12 10:17:29 <TermanaN900> :p
Oct 12 10:17:33 <RobbieThe1st> :P
Oct 12 10:17:46 <johnx> BCMM, it means you're uncreative, but practical :)
Oct 12 10:17:46 <TermanaN900> BCMM, like mc?
Oct 12 10:17:53 <BCMM> TermanaN900: yeah, like mc
Oct 12 10:17:59 <johnx> maybe that's what your interviewer is looking for...
Oct 12 10:18:04 * DocScrutinizer searching for the heavy boots with steel caps
Oct 12 10:18:13 <pupnik> A N810-sized phone/tablet could accomodate a 3000 mAh battery http://i.imgur.com/50MDa.jpg  :/
Oct 12 10:18:13 <RobbieThe1st> Heck, if you forget everything else, you could even go so far as to boot off an external system disk, and chmod from there.
Oct 12 10:18:17 <BCMM> i like the "hexedit the partition" one, but's it's a really bad idea
Oct 12 10:18:22 <RobbieThe1st> also, my own branded solution: php -r "chmod('./testfile',0777);"
Oct 12 10:19:10 <johnx> RobbieThe1st, I think it was decided that bringing the system down lost you 'points'
Oct 12 10:19:16 <TermanaN900> lol
Oct 12 10:19:35 <RobbieThe1st> Yea, true enough. But better than nothing
Oct 12 10:19:40 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: an idea for *real* men!
Oct 12 10:19:44 <johnx> BCMM, I've done that to reset a password before :)
Oct 12 10:19:53 <BCMM> johnx: woah, what sort of password?
Oct 12 10:19:56 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: heh, me too
Oct 12 10:20:02 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: no, real men use a magnitised needle
Oct 12 10:20:21 <johnx> it was on an irix box, and I didn't have another irix-running machine. just a normal encrypted password in /etc/passwd
Oct 12 10:20:23 <ieatlint> bah, that's more effort than needed to reset the password... just add "init=/bin/bash" to the kernel config line
Oct 12 10:20:39 <BCMM> i have no idea about irix
Oct 12 10:20:42 <ieatlint> unless grub is password protected.. then yeah, need a boot disk or similar :)
Oct 12 10:20:51 <BCMM> ieatlint: that's what i was gonnn say, but i guess it doesn't apply to irix
Oct 12 10:20:59 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: and the smartasses even scratch the HDD like a vinyl record player :-P
Oct 12 10:21:15 <johnx> BCMM, neither did I :)
Oct 12 10:21:24 <ieatlint> yeah, i don't know irix at all
Oct 12 10:21:58 <johnx> ieatlint, I know it uses the same type of encryption for passwd files that linux did in the same era ;)
Oct 12 10:22:13 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: the easiest way is to set userid of a good record in etc/shadow to 0
Oct 12 10:22:41 <DocScrutinizer> good==known password
Oct 12 10:23:02 <vdv> is modest now better than in older firmware?
Oct 12 10:23:03 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, if you can't mount the fs, and can't escalate to root, the only safe move is to replace a string of n characters with a string of n characters
Oct 12 10:23:05 <RobbieThe1st> Anyway guys, I've got a PyQT4 problem/question: I have a python script that creates a tasktray icon. I have a context menu, an an "launch application" option on it. I have that connected to a function which makes the GUI window I want. That all works fine
Oct 12 10:23:05 <DocScrutinizer> or simply use john :-D
Oct 12 10:23:15 <johnx> also, I didn't know *any* passwords on that box
Oct 12 10:23:18 <BCMM> johnx: encryption, or hashing?
Oct 12 10:23:20 <pupnik> and let me hot-swap them / cycling batteries as needed without reboot
Oct 12 10:23:41 <RobbieThe1st> But, as soon as I click that option and open the window, the task-tray icon stops responding to right-clicks(No more context menu).
Oct 12 10:23:45 <johnx> BCMM, you're probably right. that would be hashing
Oct 12 10:23:49 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: 0000 is a valid userID I guess
Oct 12 10:24:12 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, try it on *your* irix 5.x box and tell me if it works :P
Oct 12 10:24:23 <ilius> what repo i add inside scatchbox (ubuntu) to install libsigc++
Oct 12 10:24:29 <johnx> anyways, I already said I didn't know *any* passwords on it
Oct 12 10:24:38 <DocScrutinizer> johnx: though given the plain text format of shadow I guess "   0" for "4711" will also work
Oct 12 10:25:17 <DocScrutinizer> will an indigo do?
Oct 12 10:25:29 <johnx> DocScrutinizer, go for it. mine was an O2
Oct 12 10:25:41 <johnx> tell me how it works out tomorrow :)
Oct 12 10:25:44 * johnx sleeps now. 'night all
Oct 12 10:27:01 <TermanaN900> night johnx
Oct 12 10:31:26 <yacc> Anyone got an explanation how the N900 can reboot spontaneously? It plays the Nokia sound after the Nokia logo, but goes directly to the screen instead of asking for the PIN?
Oct 12 10:32:01 <SpeedEvil> An unhelpful answr is whenany hardware or software watchdog kicks in.
Oct 12 10:32:29 <TermanaN900> Is that two questions or one?
Oct 12 10:33:47 <yacc> SpeedEvil, first question is, how can the user do such a reboot, without PIN request?
Oct 12 10:34:26 <yacc> SpeedEvil, and second, where can I figure out what might be the watchdog that triggers that?
Oct 12 10:34:44 <SpeedEvil> What's your device currently doing?
Oct 12 10:34:53 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - not following closely - horribly tired.
Oct 12 10:34:58 <yacc> TermanaN900, actually just one, I just wondered how it came that it does not ask the PIN either, which signifies to me mostly that it's not a normal reboot.
Oct 12 10:35:19 <yacc> SpeedEvil, it's connected via Dummynetwork and USB and sitting just right of my PC mouse :)
Oct 12 10:35:23 <yacc> Showing the desktop
Oct 12 10:37:45 <yacc> Ooops, just happened again, it reboots just now.
Oct 12 10:38:18 <SpeedEvil> Does it ever get to the 'normal' state.
Oct 12 10:38:27 <SpeedEvil> And do you have a pressing reasonnot to reflash it.
Oct 12 10:39:50 <yacc> Well, it's in normal state between the reboots.
Oct 12 10:40:02 <yacc> I can ssh into, the desktop is fully there, I can start apps, ...
Oct 12 10:40:17 <SpeedEvil> cat /proc/boot_reason
Oct 12 10:40:23 <SpeedEvil> will show the boot reason
Oct 12 10:40:39 <yacc> sw_rst
Oct 12 10:40:48 <yacc> software reset?
Oct 12 10:41:01 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
Oct 12 10:41:19 <SpeedEvil> My next step would be to install syslogd, and configure it to log remotely to your desktop
Oct 12 10:42:54 <yacc> SpeedEvil, ah, thx for confirming that I have to do that, wondered if there is a "cheaper" way for lazy gits like me :-P
Oct 12 10:44:21 <SpeedEvil> ~flashing
Oct 12 10:44:22 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Oct 12 10:45:13 <yacc> There is :)
Oct 12 10:45:18 <DocScrutinizer> sw-reset, hehe. some nasty software thinks it has to reboot (I bett 100 quid on dsme)
Oct 12 10:45:21 <yacc> /dev/mtd2 seems to show the kernel oops, ...
Oct 12 10:46:13 <DocScrutinizer> yes, if there was a kernel oops then /dev/mtd2 holds it. If there's been none then what you see there is obsolete
Oct 12 10:46:48 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Well, after a sw_rst it's probably more less current, I'd guess.
Oct 12 10:48:13 <yacc> [  436.695037] mtdoops: Ready 5, 6 (no erase)
Oct 12 10:48:13 <yacc> [  436.695037] Kernel panic - not syncing: Fatal exception in interrupt
Oct 12 10:48:22 <yacc> Guess that's the last one, not very informative :(
Oct 12 10:49:34 <yacc> So, okay, how do I get rid of the "poweruser" kernel, just apt-get remove --purge will also restore the normal kernel to boot?
Oct 12 10:52:06 <yacc> With a longer runtime I've got a kernel oops "NULL pointer derefence", interestingly, the backtrace suggests it happens in an interrupt too => musb_interrupt -> do_pio_rx -> __bug
Oct 12 10:52:33 <yacc> oops, yet another sw_rst
Oct 12 10:53:20 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: nope, apt-get remove will either do nothing or break your device
Oct 12 10:53:24 <RobbieThe1st> Yacc: why  not just flash the kernel via the flasher utility?
Oct 12 10:53:40 <yacc> RobbieThe1st, because I've never done it before?
Oct 12 10:53:44 <yacc> ;)
Oct 12 10:53:59 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: So how do I return to the normal kernel the correct way?
Oct 12 10:54:10 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: you need to flash the stock kernel to get rid of powerkernel
Oct 12 10:54:18 <yacc> How?
Oct 12 10:54:37 <DocScrutinizer> check power kernel howto, it's explained there afaik
Oct 12 10:54:41 <yacc> google seems to help :)
Oct 12 10:54:53 <timeless_xchat> it's snowing!
Oct 12 10:55:03 <DocScrutinizer> BLAAARGHH
Oct 12 10:55:16 <jpinx> does screen exist for installation in the n900?
Oct 12 10:55:26 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Oct 12 10:55:58 <jpinx> which repo ?  Ican't put my finger on it.
Oct 12 10:56:09 <DocScrutinizer> tools?
Oct 12 10:56:19 <timeless_xchat> and an awesome snowflake landed on my jacket, but i couldn't take a picture with my n900 because i was on the phone!
Oct 12 10:56:20 * jpinx looks  again...
Oct 12 10:56:26 <DocScrutinizer> can't remember, check chanlog - 2..3 days back
Oct 12 10:56:51 <RobbieThe1st> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5
Oct 12 10:56:57 <SpeedEvil> timeless_xchat: xsnow
Oct 12 10:57:27 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_xchat: photo? "Wanted! dead or alive (preferably dead)"?
Oct 12 10:57:45 * DocScrutinizer hates snow
Oct 12 10:59:21 <jpinx> RobbieThe1st: thanks - got it :)
Oct 12 10:59:26 <RobbieThe1st> NP
Oct 12 11:00:19 <DocScrutinizer> jpinx: for a lazyman's repo setup check the link in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools :-D
Oct 12 11:01:03 <TermanaDesire> Anyone want to explain what the lock switch actually does?
Oct 12 11:01:11 <SpeedEvil> TermanaDesire: It blanks the screen
Oct 12 11:01:26 <SpeedEvil> TermanaDesire: and means it does not respond to further touchscreen input unless i't sunlocked
Oct 12 11:01:43 <SpeedEvil> Or unblanks of course, if it's blank
Oct 12 11:01:56 <jpinx> TermanaDesire: stops you calling the police by accident ?  :)
Oct 12 11:02:27 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Sorry, any url for me? Your search - "power kernel howto" N900 - did not match any documents.
Oct 12 11:03:45 <DocScrutinizer> TermanaDesire: it causes a  GPIO to go low when lockswitch engaged :-D
Oct 12 11:04:02 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: *my* search?
Oct 12 11:06:06 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: afaik on installing pkg kernel-power it explains where to read about details and how to revert to stock kernel. Titan has answered with a RTFM several times on such questions
Oct 12 11:06:52 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: sorry I myself never ever installed power kernel, so nfc
Oct 12 11:07:07 <TermanaDesire> So it changes a gpio, blanks the screen with the sys node, stops touchscreen input (with a sys node?) Is that it?
Oct 12 11:07:21 <DocScrutinizer> roundabout
Oct 12 11:08:05 <DocScrutinizer> of course it's a bit more complicated
Oct 12 11:08:37 <TermanaDesire> And the chipset starts doing power management when the screen is blanked?
Oct 12 11:08:43 <DocScrutinizer> basically it's mce that's doing all this
Oct 12 11:08:51 <jacekowski> power managment is working all the time
Oct 12 11:09:07 <DocScrutinizer> no, the chipset always does power mgmt
Oct 12 11:09:53 <obsidieth> which version of maemo5 should i be flashing onto my n900
Oct 12 11:09:59 <jacekowski> latest
Oct 12 11:10:13 <obsidieth> alrighty.
Oct 12 11:10:21 <DocScrutinizer> unlike e.g. OM Freerunner the OMAP NITs don't do any suspend on screen locking
Oct 12 11:10:25 <obsidieth> i was a little confused at there being a 2009 build above latest on the page.
Oct 12 11:10:57 <DocScrutinizer> obsidieth: the naming is plain insane
Oct 12 11:11:13 <obsidieth> PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900
Oct 12 11:11:15 <obsidieth> i assume thats the ticket.
Oct 12 11:11:31 <SpeedEvil> TermanaDesire: however - whenthe screen is off, that enables it to close down lots of functional units. When the screen is locked, power use canbe when idle under 1/00th of the battery caapcity per hour
Oct 12 11:11:35 <SpeedEvil> 1/200
Oct 12 11:12:21 <DocScrutinizer> OSSO_VERSION='RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_MR0'    OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION='10.2010.19-1'
Oct 12 11:12:30 <TermanaDesire> SpeedEvil: so when you blank the screen it power saves more?
Oct 12 11:12:49 <DocScrutinizer> obsidieth: yes
Oct 12 11:13:05 <obsidieth> word.
Oct 12 11:13:13 <obsidieth> also, you guys use the n900 for skype much?
Oct 12 11:13:19 <obsidieth> having some pretty serious quality issues lately
Oct 12 11:13:38 <DocScrutinizer> TermanaDesire: noob! yes of course, as the backlight won't eat large amounts of power then
Oct 12 11:14:32 <TermanaDesire> DocScrutinizer: I meant besides the obvious :p
Oct 12 11:14:33 <jacekowski> obsidieth: where are you from?
Oct 12 11:14:47 <obsidieth> i am australian.
Oct 12 11:14:55 <DocScrutinizer> TermanaDesire: Xserver knows it doesn't need to refresh, so all apps are much more idle
Oct 12 11:14:59 <jacekowski> hmm, yeah, get global firmware
Oct 12 11:15:00 <jacekowski> and
Oct 12 11:15:08 <jacekowski> well, skype over 3g isn't the best thing
Oct 12 11:15:16 <obsidieth> i only use it on my wifi
Oct 12 11:15:23 <obsidieth> the same call from a pc is fine, but on the n900
Oct 12 11:15:29 <obsidieth> is kinda dies every 5 seconds
Oct 12 11:15:32 <obsidieth> for maybe 1 second
Oct 12 11:15:34 <jacekowski> hmm, wifi problem?
Oct 12 11:15:43 <jacekowski> disable power saving
Oct 12 11:15:45 <jacekowski> and check again
Oct 12 11:15:47 <obsidieth> could it be power save settings or something i wonder
Oct 12 11:15:53 <jacekowski> or dtim could mess up things
Oct 12 11:16:00 <DocScrutinizer> wkan PSM
Oct 12 11:16:10 <obsidieth> hm?
Oct 12 11:16:11 <DocScrutinizer> kype is evil
Oct 12 11:16:25 <DocScrutinizer> wlan PowerSavingsMode
Oct 12 11:16:33 <obsidieth> the n900 wouldnt be having trouble with my encryption maybe jacekowski?
Oct 12 11:16:36 <DocScrutinizer> but skype is BS
Oct 12 11:16:42 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: It's not the backlight. The backlight at the lowest level uses consuiderably less poewer than the amount used by the LCD /CPU
Oct 12 11:17:01 <jacekowski> no, it's most likely power sawing
Oct 12 11:17:07 <jacekowski> DocScrutinizer: kype?
Oct 12 11:17:09 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption
Oct 12 11:17:17 <SpeedEvil> TermanaDesire:
Oct 12 11:17:32 <obsidieth> right. ill have a little experiment once i reflash.
Oct 12 11:18:55 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: you've seen the wireshark cellmo dissect?
Oct 12 11:20:46 <jacekowski> yeah
Oct 12 11:20:57 <jacekowski> who made it?
Oct 12 11:23:26 <Corsac> Harald Welte, I guess
Oct 12 11:27:44 <PontusOhman> Anyone knows which file to edit to remove the darn BusyBox message?! Is it the /etc/motd file or not?
Oct 12 11:28:29 <Aura> Domo Arigato Gozaïmasu.
Oct 12 11:29:48 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Not your search, but "power kernel howto" your keywords :-P
Oct 12 11:30:55 <alterego> bored bored bored
Oct 12 11:31:19 <DocScrutinizer> Corsac: Harald??
Oct 12 11:31:20 <Aura> HellOlAloHallOhayo.. I HI.. SALUT bonjour guten tag good morning coucou ohayo saluté hasta siempre la victoria.
Oct 12 11:32:07 <DocScrutinizer> Aura: first and last warning
Oct 12 11:32:47 <Aura> Sorry for Sephiroth
Oct 12 11:33:43 <DocScrutinizer> Aura: wtf Sephiroth? please say a turing-test compatible sentence!
Oct 12 11:34:07 <Gh0sty> :P
Oct 12 11:34:24 <DocScrutinizer> Aura: who are you? a fsckng bot?
Oct 12 11:35:26 <Aura> I'm Ze
Oct 12 11:35:33 <Corsac> DocScrutinizer: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/gsm/
Oct 12 11:35:57 <Aura> I'm Zarka.
Oct 12 11:36:12 <DocScrutinizer> ok
Oct 12 11:36:21 <DocScrutinizer> that's a bit better now
Oct 12 11:37:30 <Aura> i"m not Stanley Kubrick !
Oct 12 11:37:56 <DocScrutinizer> Aura: you got a N900?
Oct 12 11:38:50 <Aura> I love N900
Oct 12 11:39:04 <DocScrutinizer> but do you HAVE
Oct 12 11:39:07 <kerio> Aura: if a woodchuck could chuck wood, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck?
Oct 12 11:39:49 <DocScrutinizer> Aura: you're still under turing test. I'm not convinced and tend to ban you in a minute
Oct 12 11:40:32 <DocScrutinizer> give us one meaningful sentence please, preferably related to the topic of this chan
Oct 12 11:40:33 <obsidieth> ah god.
Oct 12 11:40:39 <obsidieth> flasher program cannot see it by usb apparently.
Oct 12 11:40:42 <kerio> so a bot that passes the turing test would be allowed in here?
Oct 12 11:40:55 <DocScrutinizer> kerio: sure :-D
Oct 12 11:41:08 <SpeedEvil> kerio: How does that make you feel?
Oct 12 11:41:08 <DocScrutinizer> Aura: hi!
Oct 12 11:41:29 <kerio> eliza bots suck
Oct 12 11:41:35 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Oct 12 11:41:35 <Aura> Haah Haak
Oct 12 11:42:16 <ilius> how to share a local folder between ubuntu and scratchbox?
Oct 12 11:43:36 <DocScrutinizer> bindmount ?
Oct 12 11:44:13 <ilius> DocScrutinizer: inside or outside of sb?
Oct 12 11:44:34 <DocScrutinizer> depends on location of folder and where you need it :-D
Oct 12 11:45:21 <ilius> DocScrutinizer: thats outside of sb, and I need it inside of sb. but there is no command bindmount inside of sb
Oct 12 11:45:35 <DocScrutinizer> probably mount inside sb from outside sb, as the other way round is easy via full path like /scratchbox/home/users/foo/bar/users/xxx/yyy
Oct 12 11:45:57 <DocScrutinizer> you need to do the bindmount cmd outside of sb
Oct 12 11:46:09 <DocScrutinizer> that'S the whole point of a chroot
Oct 12 11:46:15 <TiagoTiago> cat /dev/urandom | espeak
Oct 12 11:46:21 <TiagoTiago> :D
Oct 12 11:46:41 <obsidieth> ar. certainly doesnt work.
Oct 12 11:46:47 <DocScrutinizer> hah, we finally knopw how TiagoTiago creates his posts here :-P
Oct 12 11:46:59 <TiagoTiago> xP
Oct 12 11:48:05 <TiagoTiago> lol, it just said "macromedia"  O.O
Oct 12 11:48:34 <DocScrutinizer> ilius: type 'mount' in a shell of your host system, while scratchbox is started, to see examples of other bindmounts
Oct 12 11:49:10 <DocScrutinizer> ilius: you need to create a similar mount for your 'local folder'
Oct 12 11:50:38 <ilius> # mount /data /scratchbox/home/ilius/data --bind
Oct 12 11:50:38 <ilius> mount: mount point /scratchbox/home/ilius/data does not exist
Oct 12 11:51:13 <DocScrutinizer> so create it! :-) (mkdir might help)
Oct 12 11:51:49 <ilius> /home/ilius/data exists inside sb
Oct 12 11:52:47 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, strange
Oct 12 11:52:56 <ilius> i created /scratchbox/home/ilius/data and mounted
Oct 12 11:53:04 <ilius> but not affect inside sb
Oct 12 11:53:37 <DocScrutinizer> please do a ls -l /scratchbox/home/ilius/data
Oct 12 11:54:21 <DocScrutinizer> err wut? "...inside sb"? You need to issue the mount cmd *outside* of sb
Oct 12 11:54:33 <ilius> DocScrutinizer: its ok (many contents) outside of sb
Oct 12 11:55:00 <ilius> DocScrutinizer: i meen i can not see contents inside of sb
Oct 12 11:55:12 <DocScrutinizer> sure, as mount failed
Oct 12 11:56:55 <DocScrutinizer> ls -l /scratchbox/home/ilius/data && mount --bind /data /scratchbox/home/ilius/data || echo "you missed the right shell (host, not sb) or you have no proper mountpoint dir"
Oct 12 11:57:52 <ilius> DocScrutinizer: it prints contens of /data
Oct 12 11:58:25 <ilius> DocScrutinizer: but /home/ilius/data is empty inside of sb
Oct 12 11:58:29 <DocScrutinizer> fine, so a 'mount' shall show a bindmount from /data to /scratchbox/home/ilius/data
Oct 12 11:58:48 <DocScrutinizer> I don't think that's correct
Oct 12 11:58:50 <TiagoTiago> i wonder what dreams i might have if i sleep with espeak reading /dev/urandom......
Oct 12 11:59:14 <DocScrutinizer> TiagoTiago: I sleep with TV on, that's absolutely the same :-P
Oct 12 12:00:43 <DocScrutinizer> ilius: in sb do 'touch /data/findme'; outside do find /scatchbox -name findme -ls
Oct 12 12:01:01 <kerio> TiagoTiago: that will kill your entropy pool! :(
Oct 12 12:01:19 <DocScrutinizer> nope it won't
Oct 12 12:01:23 <DocScrutinizer> it's urandom
Oct 12 12:01:27 <kerio> yeah
Oct 12 12:03:28 <ilius> DocScrutinizer: solved! the correct command was: mount /data /scratchbox/users/ilius/home/ilius/data --bind
Oct 12 12:03:39 <DocScrutinizer> toldya
Oct 12 12:03:44 <ilius> DocScrutinizer: two times of username
Oct 12 12:04:06 <DocScrutinizer> yes sb is quite messed up
Oct 12 12:05:00 <DocScrutinizer> find -name findme will have shown you the correct path
Oct 12 12:06:16 <tobis87> Hi, anyone read this paper? http://wiki.meego.com/File:MSSF_OLS2010.pdf
Oct 12 12:06:47 <DocScrutinizer> wtf is that?
Oct 12 12:07:20 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: security framework
Oct 12 12:07:27 <DocScrutinizer> blargh!
Oct 12 12:07:51 <tobis87> a total nightmare: "It must not be possible to change critical device parameters" "Providing services such as Music Store or Application Store requires device to support copyprotection. "It allows to have protection for scripts and data files, which do not have ELF header. " ....
Oct 12 12:07:57 <RST38h> "Microsoft has loaded Windows Phone 7 with jargon that's more obfuscatory than explanatory, such as tiles and hubs. The "tiles" are really just widgets, and the "hubs" are really just application welcome screens"
Oct 12 12:08:08 <DocScrutinizer> yep!
Oct 12 12:08:55 <DocScrutinizer> security framework is just to lock in user and give control of user's device to industry. everything else can be done without such BS
Oct 12 12:09:53 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: personally i see it as a way to keep my device safe while having it be more promiscious than a american college on exchange in europe
Oct 12 12:10:01 <tobis87> If you use your own kernel it will use open mode, "However in open mode, chipset security generates different keys which are incompatible with normal mode keys. This makes it impossible to get an access to copy protected content."
Oct 12 12:10:10 <Stskeeps> american college student, girl, on exchange in europe, that is
Oct 12 12:10:13 <RST38h> Stskeeps: You see it wrong, sorry
Oct 12 12:10:23 <Stskeeps> RST38h: we can debate all the time, but of course DRM is part of it
Oct 12 12:10:29 <tobis87> Does this mean, I can use a different kernel _or_ listen to the music I have buyed?
Oct 12 12:10:33 <DocScrutinizer> evidently there are "secure" unix servers around since ages. All additional 'security' means depriving user of rights and transfer control over those rights to another instance
Oct 12 12:10:35 <RST38h> Stskeeps: And, I am afraid, it is not an opinion, but a fact of life
Oct 12 12:10:52 <Stskeeps> tobis87: pretty much - don't support DRM music :)
Oct 12 12:11:00 <RST38h> I.e. having this "protection" will do nothing to keep your device safer from actual threats (viruses, trojans, etc)
Oct 12 12:11:29 <DocScrutinizer> tobis87: exactly
Oct 12 12:11:29 <RST38h> It will keep the content you buy safe from your attempts to copy it, of course
Oct 12 12:11:42 <RST38h> But there is exactly zero personal value to you in this
Oct 12 12:11:59 <tobis87> Well, I could also just want to use a application I buyed. This is madness.
Oct 12 12:12:08 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: ACK, FULL ACK
Oct 12 12:12:29 <DocScrutinizer> and nobody seems to get it
Oct 12 12:12:34 <DocScrutinizer> a pity
Oct 12 12:12:40 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i'd personally run it in open mode and set my own policies, but fair enough
Oct 12 12:13:06 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: you can do this without that crap called "security foo"
Oct 12 12:13:30 <RST38h> Stskeeps: The whole point is that you have no control of it, content owners do
Oct 12 12:13:33 <sx0n> security is good thing?
Oct 12 12:13:40 <Stskeeps> RST38h: well, i don't buy DRM music anymore, tbh
Oct 12 12:13:45 <DocScrutinizer> sx0n: omg
Oct 12 12:13:47 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Same here
Oct 12 12:13:49 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i did it once and it burnt me
Oct 12 12:14:25 <Venemo_N900> timeless: ping
Oct 12 12:15:02 <sx0n> DocScrutinizer, i don't understand the crying about it. It is not end of the world.
Oct 12 12:15:05 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Which, of course, renders this whole "security architecture" useless, as people will either buy DRM-less stuff or "steal" it
Oct 12 12:15:14 <Stskeeps> if meego's going on several devices, by god, i'd want to have a proper security architecture
Oct 12 12:15:17 <RST38h> Whatever is easier
Oct 12 12:15:25 <DocScrutinizer> sx0n: sorry but that's a BS statement
Oct 12 12:15:25 <Stskeeps> and something greater than 'current user'
Oct 12 12:15:46 <kerio> lol drm
Oct 12 12:15:50 <DocScrutinizer> sx0n: when I cut off your right hand, that's also not "the end of the world"
Oct 12 12:15:54 <SpeedEvil> I want my devices - ideally - to be a _complete_ brick if someone steals it.
Oct 12 12:16:02 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Securing Unix/Linux is a well researched subject, where there is almost no place for innovation
Oct 12 12:16:06 <SpeedEvil> Ideally I would like it to come with an embedded thermite charge.
Oct 12 12:16:19 <kerio> SpeedEvil: so help us write n900nuke!
Oct 12 12:16:21 <SpeedEvil> I do not want the new 'owner' to be able to flash it.
Oct 12 12:16:24 <sx0n> DocScrutinizer, :)
Oct 12 12:16:32 <Stskeeps> RST38h: how do i make sure gpodder doesn't explode my battery?
Oct 12 12:16:34 <RST38h> Stskeeps: So, whatever "new security architecture" you see, it is most likely snakeoil
Oct 12 12:16:38 <Venemo_N900> SpeedEvil: why not with a small nuke?
Oct 12 12:16:42 <kerio> blow up speakers and flash, overload the cpu
Oct 12 12:16:47 <mece> SpeedEvil, write garbage directly to nand?
Oct 12 12:16:55 <RST38h> Stskeeps: You do not use bad batteries.
Oct 12 12:16:55 <kerio> overclock it to 2ghz and let it run without checks
Oct 12 12:17:01 <SpeedEvil> mece: Overvoltaging CPU is in principle possible AIUI
Oct 12 12:17:02 <kerio> then flash the bootloader
Oct 12 12:17:11 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: worse. no snakeoil but a logical trojan selling industry DRM as 'security'
Oct 12 12:17:20 <RST38h> Doc: Sometimes, yes.
Oct 12 12:17:20 <SpeedEvil> Possibly other subsystems.
Oct 12 12:17:25 <RST38h> Not always.
Oct 12 12:17:26 <Venemo_N900> ~nuke the guys who steal SpeedEvil's N900
Oct 12 12:17:27 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at the guys who steal SpeedEvil's N900 ... B☢☢M!
Oct 12 12:17:29 <Stskeeps> kerio: ah, good one
Oct 12 12:18:04 <RST38h> Stskeeps: BTW, it is important to note that the goal of computer security is not to deal with every imaginable threat
Oct 12 12:18:20 <RST38h> Stskeeps: But to deal with the most likely threats.
Oct 12 12:18:23 <Stskeeps> RST38h: no, but currently any app i can install can do -everything-
Oct 12 12:18:31 <Stskeeps> which is not good
Oct 12 12:18:39 <kerio> the goal of computer security is to deal with every imaginable threat in a sensible way
Oct 12 12:18:43 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Well, Unix avoids it by not giving every app root privileges
Oct 12 12:18:54 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yeah, tell that to postinst scripts in debian..
Oct 12 12:19:02 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Implement the same in Meego, and you have solved 75% of security issues
Oct 12 12:19:02 <kerio> Stskeeps: why is it not good
Oct 12 12:19:04 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: there's SElinux, md5sum and a lot of other 'security' stuff. We DO NOT WANT security framework, as it has exactly one new thing: DRM
Oct 12 12:19:14 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Meego is not debian based.
Oct 12 12:19:17 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: well then disable it, be happy
Oct 12 12:19:26 <tobis87> sx0n: It is all about this: "Comparing to personal computers where users have more control over the device (...) mobile device users do not expect that they need to make complicated configuration of the device." This implies that because users don't _need_ it, there is no use to have them access to parts of the system.
Oct 12 12:19:26 <kerio> stop shrugging off *your* responsibilities
Oct 12 12:19:30 <DocScrutinizer> and we all know DRM spells Digital Restrictions Management
Oct 12 12:19:30 <Stskeeps> and stop whining about it
Oct 12 12:19:39 <RST38h> Stskeeps: BTW, you can also consider this problem from the social point
Oct 12 12:19:40 <mece> oh my. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/12/apple_trademark/
Oct 12 12:19:47 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: you don't get it, eh?
Oct 12 12:19:52 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: no, i do get it
Oct 12 12:20:00 <kerio> Stskeeps: if you're not willing to *think* while you install random programs, i say you deserve the worse
Oct 12 12:20:01 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Make it REALLY easy to report/discuss apps found in a repo
Oct 12 12:20:07 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: when we got that shit implemented in bootloader, then there's no way back
Oct 12 12:20:15 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Oct 12 12:20:18 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Make the app manager show red flags for apps with a lot of negative feedback
Oct 12 12:20:22 <Stskeeps> RST38h: tmo shows this doesn't work
Oct 12 12:20:25 <SpeedEvil> I wish there was a gsmdump with cheap hardware.
Oct 12 12:20:31 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Actually, it does work
Oct 12 12:20:44 <kerio> to install programs, you need root privileges
Oct 12 12:20:51 <RST38h> Stskeeps: It may not work for adolescent tmo lemmings, but they are not your audience
Oct 12 12:20:56 <kerio> beyond that point, whatever you do is *your* fault
Oct 12 12:21:04 <RST38h> Stskeeps: They will find a way to brick their preciouses anyway
Oct 12 12:21:08 <Stskeeps> sigh
Oct 12 12:21:20 <kerio> am i the only one that doublechecks *every* sudo command he executes?
Oct 12 12:21:27 <Venemo_N900> Nope
Oct 12 12:21:29 <Stskeeps> my point is - i'd like to control what apps does on my devices, end of story
Oct 12 12:21:31 <Venemo_N900> me too
Oct 12 12:21:31 <RST38h> Stskeeps: 99% of people will not install an app that has a lot of VISIBLE negative feedback
Oct 12 12:21:33 <Stskeeps> i don't care for DRM
Oct 12 12:21:40 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Yea, ACLs then
Oct 12 12:21:44 <kerio> Stskeeps: so look at the source
Oct 12 12:21:51 <Stskeeps> which noone has found a good day to deal with
Oct 12 12:21:52 <RST38h> Stskeeps: With some intelligent GUI on top
Oct 12 12:22:00 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Noone ever tried
Oct 12 12:22:01 <Stskeeps> s/day/way/
Oct 12 12:22:08 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: use SElinux - end of story
Oct 12 12:22:10 <Stskeeps> kerio: the world isn't open source
Oct 12 12:22:15 <mece> Aaaha comedy gold in the "I want to DELETE my ACCOUNT" thread on tmo!
Oct 12 12:22:17 <RST38h> Stskeeps: When they say "security" they mean DRM and device locking
Oct 12 12:22:39 <RST38h> Stskeeps: BTW, if you really want to discuss the topic in detail, you should probably chat with Arkenoi
Oct 12 12:22:51 <DocScrutinizer> WUT
Oct 12 12:22:55 <Myrtti> I want a device that works.
Oct 12 12:22:56 <DocScrutinizer> infobot!!!!
Oct 12 12:23:01 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Who can continue on this topic for hours :)
Oct 12 12:23:07 <kerio> Stskeeps: either you stop and *think* about what you're doing, or you have to let someone else do that for you (see walled garden etc.)
Oct 12 12:23:16 <kerio> infobot! noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Oct 12 12:23:19 <DocScrutinizer> Myrtti: buy a winmoob7 then :-P
Oct 12 12:23:20 <RST38h> (and he really knows what he is tlaking about, unlike yours truly :))
Oct 12 12:23:38 <RST38h> Myrtti: Tried a kitchen knife already?
Oct 12 12:24:07 <Myrtti> RST38h: yeah, I slash myself a little everytime a stupid flamewar starts
Oct 12 12:24:08 <sx0n> tobis87, sounds bad for gadget heavy users. maybe linux/meego is going to mainstream and these things are required by content creators such as game makers.
Oct 12 12:24:14 <Myrtti> (not really)
Oct 12 12:24:20 <Stskeeps> RST38h: probably, but my angle is: i bloody want a framework where i can set up security policies, even on dbus, where i can use my apps in a fairly normal way, without having to seperate out in multiple unix users
Oct 12 12:24:55 <DocScrutinizer> sx0n: exactly
Oct 12 12:24:57 <Venemo_N900> Stskeeps: isn't SELinux okay forthat?
Oct 12 12:25:01 <kerio> Stskeeps: and i want a blowjob from angelina jolie
Oct 12 12:25:08 <Myrtti> I wish I knew where my cables are, I need to learn how to find out what makes my N1 crash
Oct 12 12:25:29 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: use SElinux - end of story
Oct 12 12:25:53 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: rather complex to shoot after things
Oct 12 12:26:17 <Stskeeps> so, you're okay with selinux but not with a minimal set of it?
Oct 12 12:26:20 <Stskeeps> interesting
Oct 12 12:26:21 <DocScrutinizer> lol! you suggest 'security framework' getting so much simpler??
Oct 12 12:26:41 <Myrtti> wheeee
Oct 12 12:26:51 <Myrtti> yay, we now have something else to discuss about
Oct 12 12:27:23 * Myrtti waits for it...
Oct 12 12:27:26 <sx0n> angelina jolie has new movie in theaters :)
Oct 12 12:27:38 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: sorry, you obviously don't get it. security framework has absolutely nothing in common with SElinux - the least some DRM shit that blocks user from own device
Oct 12 12:28:27 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: and SELinux can't be modded in such a way that you can't get to your own stuff?
Oct 12 12:28:48 <DocScrutinizer> plus SElinux is a kernel thing, while security framework starts in bootloader or even earlier, in ROm/HW
Oct 12 12:28:50 <Stskeeps> frankly, if you want a policy enforced, there's only one way to do it
Oct 12 12:28:53 <Stskeeps> in bootloader
Oct 12 12:28:54 <vdv> does anybody know some newsreader for maemo?
Oct 12 12:29:18 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: on-die bootloader.
Oct 12 12:29:27 <Venemo_N900> Vdv: there are bunch of RSS readers
Oct 12 12:29:27 <Stskeeps> otherwise it's init=/bin/bash bullshit
Oct 12 12:29:30 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: exactly, for the one that has control over the bootloader -wait who's that for N900?
Oct 12 12:29:46 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: so, let's leave nokia out of this for a second
Oct 12 12:29:52 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Oct 12 12:29:56 <DocScrutinizer> definitely not
Oct 12 12:30:01 <Stskeeps> what if this proposal was written be let's say, paul vixie, in his free time
Oct 12 12:30:02 <Termana> Here we go
Oct 12 12:30:06 <vdv> Venemo_N900, but newsgroups
Oct 12 12:30:12 <Stskeeps> would you have reacted in the same way to the technical merits?
Oct 12 12:30:22 <DocScrutinizer> if bootloader gets security framework the your device is owned by somebody else
Oct 12 12:30:30 <Venemo_N900> vdv: i dunno
Oct 12 12:30:54 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: i'd rather say 'pre-installed' policy instead
Oct 12 12:31:00 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: I react to this shit in same way whoever mentions it wherever
Oct 12 12:31:01 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: which can be overwritten with your own
Oct 12 12:31:28 <DocScrutinizer> hahahahahahaaaaaa
Oct 12 12:31:40 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: well, i'll remember to say 'DRM' next time i want you pissed off then :)
Oct 12 12:32:10 <Stskeeps> you're attacking this because of the possible uses, - i could say the same about people using tor for child porn
Oct 12 12:32:20 <Stskeeps> i'm looking at the technical merits
Oct 12 12:32:22 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: try to 'overwrite policy' on milestone!
Oct 12 12:32:36 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: well, at least we even have a open mode
Oct 12 12:32:55 <Termana> Stskeeps, IF Nokia implements that. Just saying.
Oct 12 12:32:56 <Termana> :p
Oct 12 12:33:01 <DocScrutinizer> for how long? why do we need that shit? to have a reason to hail Nokia??
Oct 12 12:33:16 <sx0n> "jailbreak" mode
Oct 12 12:33:26 <DocScrutinizer> sx0n: won't work
Oct 12 12:33:43 <Termana> Just because Nokia shows that it's there and possible doesn't mean that they will implement it. But we already know it's suppose to be implemented in non-carrier phones
Oct 12 12:33:48 <DocScrutinizer> a properly done security framework is 'safe'
Oct 12 12:34:12 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
Oct 12 12:34:18 <Stskeeps> infobot's not here
Oct 12 12:34:23 <infobot> Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)
Oct 12 12:34:43 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Oct 12 12:34:46 <Stskeeps> frankly, i wouldn't mind this kind of framework since it opens up a lot of different opportunities, such as that i don't have to worry if someone steals my n900 and i have naked pictures of myself on it
Oct 12 12:34:48 <DocScrutinizer> ciao
Oct 12 12:35:00 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 12 12:35:07 <Venemo_N900> ~botsnack
Oct 12 12:35:07 <infobot> :), Venemo_N900
Oct 12 12:35:13 <Termana> Don't want to know.
Oct 12 12:35:35 <DocScrutinizer> for that you don't need security framework, as it's NOLO/BL that does kernel *flashing*
Oct 12 12:35:48 <sx0n> Stskeeps, as "content provider" you don't like your pictures to be misused :)
Oct 12 12:36:04 <DocScrutinizer> so it's sufficient to have a proper pin-querying kernel, plus a password in NOLO for flashing
Oct 12 12:37:48 <DocScrutinizer> if I have npo control of the BL, and the BL has full control over the kernel to load and its signature then the device got owned by BL manufacturer and I have been deprived of my permissions
Oct 12 12:37:59 <DocScrutinizer> aka ownership of the device
Oct 12 12:38:01 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: then don't buy that device, simple as that
Oct 12 12:38:09 <sx0n> i am writing few apps and i surely want money out of those if someone want's to pay. certainly too much security that could not be "unsecured" is bad for hackerz
Oct 12 12:38:14 <DocScrutinizer> I already have that device
Oct 12 12:38:24 <Stskeeps> DocScrutinizer: then sell it and practice what you preach
Oct 12 12:38:28 <DocScrutinizer> and you are suggesting to implement a 'robbery'
Oct 12 12:38:32 <lcuk> Stskeeps, syou need to be a little less strong with your analogies and descriptive terms and not shock value
Oct 12 12:38:37 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, who said the N900 is going to get this at all?
Oct 12 12:38:40 <Stskeeps> lcuk: what, the nekkid pictures?
Oct 12 12:38:47 <Venemo_N900> :D
Oct 12 12:38:53 <lcuk> now, is the removable memory card going to be encrypted?
Oct 12 12:38:56 <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: or *you* just fsck off and don't push security framework
Oct 12 12:39:03 <lcuk> is it going to be formatted not FAT?
Oct 12 12:39:14 <lcuk> or are your naked pictures going to remain usable in windows?
Oct 12 12:39:19 <tobis87> I agree selinux is hard to implement, I like grsecurity.
Oct 12 12:39:32 <Termana> lcuk, are you looking to get Stskeeps' naked pictures?
Oct 12 12:39:33 <Termana> :p
Oct 12 12:39:49 <DocScrutinizer> seriously, don't force feed me that dogfood
Oct 12 12:39:53 <DocScrutinizer> pissed
Oct 12 12:39:55 <DocScrutinizer> bye
Oct 12 12:40:16 <lcuk> no Termana I am interested to know how security policy on device protects pictures stored on mmc
Oct 12 12:40:31 <lcuk> or will the camera never offer to store photos there?
Oct 12 12:40:36 <Stskeeps> lcuk: with a bit of g_file_storage magic you can do this with encryption
Oct 12 12:40:44 <lcuk> evil bit?
Oct 12 12:41:08 <lcuk> Stskeeps, think about it, i can remove the mmc and pop it into my other reader
Oct 12 12:41:14 <lcuk> and users WILL expect that to work
Oct 12 12:41:19 <kerio> full disk encryption
Oct 12 12:41:20 <kerio> lol
Oct 12 12:41:39 <lcuk> your naked pictures are not safe
Oct 12 12:41:59 <lcuk> now, sensible security policy: do not allow naked pictures to be taken if you dont want them exposed.
Oct 12 12:41:59 <kerio> how fast would truecrypt on n900 be?
Oct 12 12:42:11 <Myrtti> I vote for cheesecake. Smudge it all over the MMC, and your problems are solved.
Oct 12 12:42:14 <Myrtti> also, eat some.
Oct 12 12:42:19 <kerio> omnomnom
Oct 12 12:42:50 <Stskeeps> lcuk: that restricts my freedom!
Oct 12 12:42:55 <Venemo_N900> SELinux should be sufficent to protect the system itself
Oct 12 12:43:08 <Stskeeps> Venemo_N900: it's like shooting elephants with nuclear bombs, though
Oct 12 12:43:16 <Venemo_N900> protecting naked pictures doesn't make any sense
Oct 12 12:43:24 <lcuk> Stskeeps, no, take all the naked pictures you want dude
Oct 12 12:43:49 <alterego> Hah, the carphonewarehouse just failed, on their phone finder, they have an N8 option when Nokia is selected as the manufacturer, but it comes up with no results.
Oct 12 12:43:52 <alterego> How lame
Oct 12 12:43:53 <lcuk> but if someone wants to put them online (perhaps for a magnifying application :P) they will find a way
Oct 12 12:44:09 <lcuk> i have to go anyway
Oct 12 12:44:09 <SpeedEvil> kerio: I would be surprised if it's slower than 8M/s
Oct 12 12:44:10 <lcuk> \o
Oct 12 12:44:11 <Stskeeps> tobis87: do you have a working SHA1 acceleration btw?
Oct 12 12:44:27 <dneary> Hi all
Oct 12 12:44:27 <Venemo_N900> o/ lcuk
Oct 12 12:44:40 <kerio> if you don't want naked pictures of you around, keep clothes on
Oct 12 12:44:59 <dneary> kerio, That came a bit out of left field...
Oct 12 12:45:15 <Myrtti> dneary: welcome to the madhouse
Oct 12 12:47:47 <Myrtti> so, Zarka...
Oct 12 12:47:49 <tobis87> Stskeeps: Sha1 was always working, it had just a strange digest size in /proc/crypto. The error which aes caused could be reproduced I hope it can be fixed, because it is a cpu errata which causes this problem.
Oct 12 12:48:14 <Stskeeps> tobis87: ok - did you need a new nolo for that?
Oct 12 12:48:16 <dneary> Myrtti: Be careful, if you keep tickling the kittens like that, you'll get caught for insider trading.
Oct 12 12:48:17 <Stskeeps> for sha1 only
Oct 12 12:48:32 <Myrtti> awww
Oct 12 12:49:06 <tobis87> Don't know, I tested sha1 the first time, after I already updated nolo.
Oct 12 12:49:11 <Stskeeps> k
Oct 12 12:49:32 <Zarka> A lot of Hello from Zanarkand.
Oct 12 12:49:40 <tobis87> for which kernel do you need it?
Oct 12 12:49:47 <Stskeeps> tobis87: 2.6.35
Oct 12 12:50:07 <dneary> Silly question... what's the easiest way to know what version of the SDK I am running from Scratchbox?
Oct 12 12:50:23 <tobis87> You will not need my modifications, because they are for using it with 2.6.28 and standalone.
Oct 12 12:50:24 <crashanddie> dneary, /etc/release ? (not sure at all)
Oct 12 12:50:26 <dneary> Silly follow-up, if I don't have the latest version, what's the easiest way to upgrade?
Oct 12 12:50:27 <Zarka> 65.536.16.256.8192
Oct 12 12:50:49 <crashanddie> Zarka, unless you start making sense very soon, you will be banned
Oct 12 12:51:09 <dneary> crashanddie, Doesn't exist
Oct 12 12:51:30 <Myrtti> crashanddie: he was already banned with a different nickname
Oct 12 12:51:33 <Myrtti> or rather, is
Oct 12 12:52:59 <ieatlint> wow, i'm glad that making sense requisite isn't applied to me
Oct 12 12:53:28 <Myrtti> I never make sense but I make witty commentary
Oct 12 12:55:21 <TiagoTiago> erm, lol, somthing made espeak go sloooooooooooooow
Oct 12 12:55:46 <TiagoTiago> i wonder if i should give it a rest .....
Oct 12 12:56:04 <tobis87> Stskeeps: But I've got an older version of the driver, because the new is based on ahash, which cannot be backported. So I cannot say if the omap-sham will work, because the new one also uses dma and dma caused these problems.
Oct 12 12:56:44 <TiagoTiago> lol it keeps repeating "dildodildo" xP
Oct 12 12:57:26 <TiagoTiago> "microdildomasculineopoundthroat" lmao
Oct 12 12:59:47 <TiagoTiago> "exclamationatyou"
Oct 12 13:00:09 <TiagoTiago> "a dildo, a ring!" lol
Oct 12 13:00:22 <Myrtti> *yawn*
Oct 12 13:02:22 <TiagoTiago> lol, it sounds like it's dying very gradually
Oct 12 13:06:17 <TiagoTiago> "ilikeUarecutearing!"
Oct 12 13:08:05 <crashanddie> TiagoTiago, please stfu
Oct 12 13:08:40 <TiagoTiago> i'm quoting espeak reading /dev/random when it says somthing funny :(
Oct 12 13:09:46 <TiagoTiago> \s\random\urandom\
Oct 12 13:17:51 <Myrtti> awww, 500 Internal Server Error at youtube...
Oct 12 13:17:57 <TiagoTiago> :(
Oct 12 13:18:16 <Myrtti> happened after I watched a video about will Old Spice blend...
Oct 12 13:18:25 <Myrtti> must have been the memes colliding that did that
Oct 12 13:18:37 <tobis87> crashanddie: Any news about the injection drivers? I tried to compile the latest compat-wireless, but the config.mk somehow messes up autoconf.
Oct 12 13:19:53 <tobis87> Myrtti: Works for me, deleting the cookies sometimes helps for youtube.
Oct 12 13:21:09 <Myrtti> tobis87: I don't doubt it works
Oct 12 13:21:13 <Myrtti> it was just damn funny
Oct 12 13:22:16 <tobis87> :-D
Oct 12 13:40:51 <alterego> Hahah: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=838920&postcount=342
Oct 12 13:41:28 <vis> bleh
Oct 12 13:41:50 <frals> lol
Oct 12 13:42:00 <vis> trying to map shift-fn-a to adiaeresis ä, but instead i get Adiaeresis Ä
Oct 12 13:42:34 <flux> I have a similar proble, I've mapped F12 to ä, but shift-F12 doesn't give me capital ä :)
Oct 12 13:42:43 <flux> (on pc, obviously)
Oct 12 14:01:10 <kerio> flux: so map it to the combining diaeresis
Oct 12 14:01:22 <kerio> vis: map it to Adiaeresis
Oct 12 14:01:45 <flux> kerio, well, my .xmodmap says keycode 0x60 =adiaeresis Adiaeresis
Oct 12 14:03:25 <flux> but possibly this kind of stuff should be done with xkbd these days
Oct 12 14:03:42 <kerio> xmodmap?
Oct 12 14:03:45 <kerio> :|
Oct 12 14:07:38 <vis> kerio, oh wow, that actually worked
Oct 12 14:07:41 <vis> thanks a bunch
Oct 12 14:20:34 <dneary> Still no ide how I might find out the SDK version
Oct 12 14:20:52 <dneary> Is there an easy way to list all available targets in a scratchbox install?
Oct 12 14:20:59 <crashanddie> dneary, ls ~/Downloads/*.sh :)
Oct 12 14:21:20 <dneary> crashanddie, I found sb-menu
Oct 12 14:21:44 <dneary> Where I can see targets which are configures, and get some version information (but I don't know what that might correspond to)
Oct 12 14:22:03 <dneary> I know I didn't update SB since I installed it on the laptop I'm using, and that was a good while ago
Oct 12 14:23:22 <dneary> Stskeeps, I was wondering how I can tell within Scratchbox what SDK version I'm running
Oct 12 14:23:34 <Stskeeps> hmm.. in terms of the target?
Oct 12 14:23:48 <crashanddie> "An armless pianist has won the first series of China's version of the internationally popular television talent show "China's Got Talent. Liu Wei, 23, who lost both his arms at age 10 when he was electrocuted during a game of hide-and-seek, defeated a 7-year-old standup comedian."
Oct 12 14:24:05 <crashanddie> Oh wow, he beat a 7 yo...
Oct 12 14:24:25 <jpinx-eeepc> presumably the standup comedian had no legs?
Oct 12 14:24:30 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 12 14:24:51 <lcuk> dneary, inside your scratchbox the packages inside your target can be updated outside of any specific version
Oct 12 14:24:53 <ieatlint> i'm somehow wondering what chinese standup comedy is like
Oct 12 14:24:53 <Stskeeps> dneary: trying to tie it to PR1.x?
Oct 12 14:25:19 <crashanddie> ieatlint, don't know about stand-up, but even pianists are funny: "He also reportedly won over the judges by commenting, "At least I have a pair of perfect legs.""
Oct 12 14:25:28 <lcuk> hmm though not sure the best way to confirm
Oct 12 14:26:04 <crashanddie> How long has "Britain's got talent" been going for, lcuk?
Oct 12 14:26:27 <dneary> lcuk, Basically, I'd like to figure out whether I should reinstall the SDK, or whether it's OK to do development on
Oct 12 14:26:31 <lcuk> IDK, not avid tv fan
Oct 12 14:26:54 <dneary> Stskeeps, I want to make sure for code samples that I'm compiling & running on PR 1.2
Oct 12 14:27:07 <lcuk> dneary, apt-get update;  apt-get upgrade  ?? depending on the apt repository config..
Oct 12 14:27:28 <dneary> lcuk, And that'll update me to the latest Fremantle SDK?
Oct 12 14:27:31 <dneary> Cool, thanks
Oct 12 14:27:32 <lcuk> infact, was sdk repository appended with 1.2
Oct 12 14:27:32 <Stskeeps> dneary: should
Oct 12 14:27:41 <ieatlint> must use fakeroot to run apt-get correctly in scratchbox
Oct 12 14:27:42 <TiagoTiago> n. koreans got paper money, and they buy 'burgers on a stand at the fair, at least while foreign reporters got their camera nearby......
Oct 12 14:28:10 <ieatlint> TiagoTiago: it's likely not bullshit what the reporters are seeing
Oct 12 14:28:34 <ieatlint> there is an upper class in north korea like every country... the lower classes the reporters aren't allowed to go near
Oct 12 14:28:43 <dneary> ieatlint, Thanks
Oct 12 14:29:04 <TiagoTiago> ironicly their paper money got communist symbols printed in it
Oct 12 14:29:29 <Myrtti> I see the madhouse has transformed into a random generator now
Oct 12 14:29:31 <dneary> Getting some warnings because of missing GPG keyrings - ignorable?
Oct 12 14:30:03 <ieatlint> communism doesn't abolish the existence of money, but rather the capitalist system (although there is no actual communist country, and never has been -- at least not in compliance with marx's ideology)
Oct 12 14:30:22 <dneary> Myrtti: The meringues danced daisyhead loops.
Oct 12 14:30:33 <GAN900> ieatlint, and can't even be, because it's an unworkable system in the real world.
Oct 12 14:30:35 <TiagoTiago> it's all about power and sttuborness
Oct 12 14:30:47 <ieatlint> GAN900: i'd agree :P
Oct 12 14:30:49 <crashanddie> ieatlint, wow there, you're so fucking off topic you're nearly creating your own channel.
Oct 12 14:30:56 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 12 14:31:10 <ieatlint> crashanddie: you remind me of a toblerone
Oct 12 14:31:10 <Myrtti> y'all just plain crazy
Oct 12 14:31:17 <Myrtti> oo chocolate
Oct 12 14:31:26 <crashanddie> ieatlint, quirky, yet delicious?
Oct 12 14:31:26 <dneary> Stskeeps, A side question: Is the Fremantle GTK+ in GIT somewhere? I'd like to track the delta between the GTK+ base and the Maemo GTK+ branch over its history at some stage (not today)
Oct 12 14:31:32 <Myrtti> white chocolate or milk chocolate?
Oct 12 14:31:37 <Stskeeps> dneary: i think it's on maemo.gitorious.org
Oct 12 14:31:40 <Myrtti> white plz ^____^
Oct 12 14:31:41 <ieatlint> i'll stop now :P
Oct 12 14:31:55 <TiagoTiago> sorry, i got carried away with the talk about chinese armless penist and legless standup comic and what was showing on my TV right now
Oct 12 14:32:12 <crashanddie> chinese armless penist?
Oct 12 14:32:16 <dneary> Ironically, you're stopping just at the point where everyone had lost interest.
Oct 12 14:32:36 <dneary> crashanddie, All penists are armless
Oct 12 14:32:44 <ieatlint> dneary: which is unusual for me, i'm told i typically carry on well past that point
Oct 12 14:32:52 <Myrtti> oh jebus and holy maringue
Oct 12 14:32:56 <dneary> ieatlint, Ironically, that wasn't ironic at all
Oct 12 14:33:06 <ieatlint> how ironical of you
Oct 12 14:33:16 <Myrtti> my sarcasdar bleeps
Oct 12 14:36:32 <DocScrutinizer51> my eye bleeds
Oct 12 14:36:59 <TiagoTiago> someone should make a skit in a submarine where the sonar curses like a sailor on each hit and the seamen all get a bit embarassed by it, eventually one of them complains with the captain and the captain explains it will get bleeped in post
Oct 12 14:37:27 <tobis87> GAN900: It depends, it would only work if the system is changed progressivly and not by revolution. Captitalism is also a ideology. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g . But this is really offtopic.
Oct 12 14:37:50 <DocScrutinizer51> TiagoTiago: please stop psoting nonsense
Oct 12 14:38:07 <DocScrutinizer51> youdev/urandom running hotr
Oct 12 14:38:26 <Myrtti> I need a brainwash
Oct 12 14:38:36 <TiagoTiago> that wasn't nonsense, it was a funny thing i came up with
Oct 12 14:38:54 * DocScrutinizer51 passing brain shampoo to Myrtti 
Oct 12 14:39:18 <DocScrutinizer51> TiagoTiago: /join #fun
Oct 12 14:39:20 <Myrtti> the way I misread a few words in that random sentence, now that was funny
Oct 12 14:39:34 * crashanddie bets on seamen
Oct 12 14:39:52 <Myrtti> yup
Oct 12 14:40:04 <Myrtti> blinked a couple of times
Oct 12 14:40:24 * SpeedEvil ponders.
Oct 12 14:40:28 <TiagoTiago> i'll shut up now :(
Oct 12 14:40:29 <SpeedEvil> Is that pink?
Oct 12 14:41:24 <dneary> guys, while I enjoyed formulating meaningless sentences, it seems like the channel is fast becoming a hang-out place where idle chatter has taken over from any talk to do with Maemo
Oct 12 14:41:40 <dneary> Am I mistaken?
Oct 12 14:41:52 <TiagoTiago> like i said, i'm shutting up already u.u
Oct 12 14:42:10 <jpinx-eeepc> can you make a #maemo-offtopic ?
Oct 12 14:42:15 <Myrtti> dneary: seems to be the common thread of today
Oct 12 14:43:17 <dneary> jpinx-eeepc, /join #maemo-offtopic - done
Oct 12 14:44:29 <jpinx-eeepc> dneary: sure, but to keep it alive when everyone leaves?
Oct 12 14:44:52 <TiagoTiago> leave a link to it in topic for this channel?
Oct 12 14:46:42 <jpinx-eeepc> no-one will use it if there's no-one there...
Oct 12 14:48:22 <TiagoTiago> i usually try to not get in the way of on-topic convos with off-topic chatter, today i kinda messed up though....
Oct 12 14:57:54 <crashanddie> damn... now that's a big typo: "no buddy" instead of "nobody"
Oct 12 14:59:25 * MohammadAG51 wonders how the meego kernel blanks out NOLO
Oct 12 14:59:37 <Stskeeps> blanks out?
Oct 12 14:59:37 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 12 14:59:45 <Stskeeps> it turns on the display
Oct 12 15:01:04 <TiagoTiago> can the open parts of MeeGo that aren't open on M5 get backported?
Oct 12 15:10:37 <DocScrutinizer51> generic channel for off-topic: #defocus
Oct 12 15:11:17 <DocScrutinizer51> I mean how's maemo-offtopic different from foobar-offtopic
Oct 12 15:11:32 <mikki-kun> DocScrutinizer51: people from #maemo are usually there present
Oct 12 15:11:37 <mikki-kun> or would be
Oct 12 15:13:31 <TiagoTiago> is there a way to set the server to autojoin people into a channel? (obeying an opt-in/out of course)
Oct 12 15:14:16 <DocScrutinizer51> TiagoTiago: there are some ways to forward you to #defocus, yes :-P
Oct 12 15:14:49 <ieatlint> TiagoTiago: if you control the server, yes
Oct 12 15:16:10 <TiagoTiago> i mean to setup somthing to ask people that join #maemo if they would mind partaking in the parallel offtopic channel and if they say "ok, keep me there too" each they come here they also endup there too
Oct 12 15:16:25 <TiagoTiago> each time*
Oct 12 15:16:39 <DocScrutinizer51> nope
Oct 12 15:17:04 <TiagoTiago> that would be usefull :
Oct 12 15:17:07 <TiagoTiago> :/
Oct 12 15:18:29 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd call that spamming
Oct 12 15:18:57 <TiagoTiago> only ask for the first time the person comes
Oct 12 15:19:23 <DocScrutinizer51> lol
Oct 12 15:19:24 <TiagoTiago> or if they say some special keyphrase to change their status in this matter
Oct 12 15:19:29 <DocScrutinizer51> rethink
Oct 12 15:24:16 <dneary> Hi
Oct 12 15:25:57 <DocScrutinizer51> lo
Oct 12 15:26:39 <dneary> I am trying to figure out how to exit an application in Xephyr
Oct 12 15:26:51 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm
Oct 12 15:26:55 <dneary> I can't figure it out :}
Oct 12 15:27:05 <DocScrutinizer51> killall ?
Oct 12 15:27:13 <DocScrutinizer51> xkill ?
Oct 12 15:28:00 <dneary> I don't have the WM shell stuff (the X button, the clock, etc) when I'm in applications
Oct 12 15:28:37 <DocScrutinizer51> if your app has no generic way to quit, and is running without a window manager that offers decoration widgets to send a sigterm, then you need to do that any other way
Oct 12 15:29:14 <dneary> DocScrutinizer: I'm just running the basic SDK
Oct 12 15:29:23 <dneary> Shouldn't there be a WM and a panel app running?
Oct 12 15:29:51 <dneary> Ah
Oct 12 15:30:02 <dneary> It is there, but it died & didn't respawn
Oct 12 15:30:05 <dneary> Never mind me
Oct 12 15:34:55 <TiagoTiago> why so manhy fonts mangle the dimensions of the box drawing characters? Its the type of thing that if you're not gonna do right, you shouldn't do at all Dx<
Oct 12 15:37:22 <DocScrutinizer51> TiagoTiago: your supposedly on topic comments aren't much better than yout OT random. Please rephrase
Oct 12 15:39:48 <DocScrutinizer51> maybe it's just me, but I didn't really get it
Oct 12 15:40:08 <crashanddie> docscrutinizer: it's not you
Oct 12 15:40:22 <TiagoTiago> no one was saying anything so i didn't felt too guilty about it
Oct 12 15:40:53 <crashanddie> more than one are the people who have expressed unhappy feelings about TiagoTiago's noobish behaviour, often comparing him to a troll
Oct 12 15:42:02 <DocScrutinizer51> ~tell TiagoTiago about question
Oct 12 15:42:26 <TiagoTiago> ok, i'll log out for now then, sorry for upseting you
Oct 12 15:42:57 <dneary> Is it normal that the browser won't start in the latest updated SDK?
Oct 12 15:43:34 <dneary> maemo-launcher message: "child terminated due to exit(à=127"
Oct 12 15:44:01 <DocScrutinizer51> umm
Oct 12 15:44:05 <MohammadAG51> updated? when?
Oct 12 15:47:49 <dneary> MohammadAG51, This afternoon (as in, apt-get update; apt-get upgrade)
Oct 12 15:48:12 <MohammadAG51> ooh, PR1.3 is close :P
Oct 12 15:48:20 <dneary> I have no idea
Oct 12 15:48:33 <dneary> Ah
Oct 12 15:48:47 <dneary> Seems there's no internet in Scratchbox
Oct 12 15:48:50 * MohammadAG51 now does, in a way
Oct 12 15:49:00 <MohammadAG51> two months to go xP
Oct 12 15:49:30 <MohammadAG51> though they probably won't make the same mistake again
Oct 12 15:49:53 <MohammadAG51> i.e update builder and sdk to 1.3, cause incompatibilies two months before it's released
Oct 12 15:50:05 <MohammadAG51> so it might be out in less than a week
Oct 12 15:52:19 <dneary> In my scratchbox, that is
Oct 12 15:53:37 <jpinx-eeepc> oh boy that usb networking thing is so damn flaky
Oct 12 15:56:02 <fcrochik> Mohammad/dneary: are you saying that the sdk on scratchbox was updated since pr1.2? I am trying to package a new application and if I compile it on the Nokia SDK it works fine but when I compile on scratchbox and copy to my device I get an unexplainable "Segmention Fault"
Oct 12 15:56:07 <kerio> does scratchbox run on n900?
Oct 12 15:57:12 <alterego> kerio: not likely
Oct 12 15:59:11 <dneary> fcrochik, No, I'm just trying to get some sample code working on the SDK & a bunch of stuff I thought used to work isn't working any more
Oct 12 15:59:17 <dneary> The browser, notably
Oct 12 16:00:08 <dneary> I tried to run it manually & got "browser: symbol lookup error: /usr/bin/browser.launch: undefined symbol: browser_engine_get_plugin_mgr
Oct 12 16:00:10 <dneary> "
Oct 12 16:01:54 <fcrochik> dneary: I didn't think so but got the train moving and thought maybe there was an easier explanation for my segmentation fault...
Oct 12 16:02:30 <dneary> fcrochik, I was asking earlier how to know which version of the SDK was installed in scratchbox
Oct 12 16:02:35 <dneary> No-one knew the answer
Oct 12 16:02:49 <dneary> So I said "what I *really* want is to be sure I'm at the latest version"
Oct 12 16:03:06 <dneary> and I was reassured that apt-get update; apt-get upgrade would get me there
Oct 12 16:03:17 <dneary> I think I had PR 1.0 or 1.1 installed before
Oct 12 16:03:18 <ftrvxmtrx> cat /etc/maemo_version, no?
Oct 12 16:04:40 <fcrochik> dneary: I saw that... I actually got the idea from Mohammad post .... :)
Oct 12 16:05:00 <dneary> ftrvxmtrx, Ah
Oct 12 16:05:07 <dneary> Wish you'd been about earlier
Oct 12 16:05:17 <dneary> Does that get updated when I apt-get upgrade?
Oct 12 16:05:27 <ftrvxmtrx> not sure
Oct 12 16:05:30 <dneary> It's at 5.0update6 Fremantle now
Oct 12 16:06:19 <fcrochik> dneary: mine says the same if it is any consolation
Oct 12 16:06:39 <dneary> fcrochik, Cool
Oct 12 16:07:44 <fcrochik> dneary: sorry for one more noob question: how do you get the post you send to me to be hilighted? I am still trying to figure out how I can improve communi .. :)
Oct 12 16:09:22 * MohammadAG51 has a copy of PR1.2 sdk, 
Oct 12 16:09:26 * MohammadAG51 updates
Oct 12 16:10:31 <MohammadAG51> fcrochik, type the full nick, or use tab
Oct 12 16:10:47 <fcrochik> MohammadAG51: cool!
Oct 12 16:11:02 <fcrochik> MohammadAG51: did it work?
Oct 12 16:11:32 <MohammadAG51> yeah
Oct 12 16:13:02 <MohammadAG51> dneary, no sdk update here
Oct 12 16:13:41 * DocScrutinizer mumbles osso-product-info
Oct 12 16:15:07 <DocScrutinizer> fcrochik: highlighting is a feature of your irc client
Oct 12 16:15:45 <DocScrutinizer> except if somebody is using colors
Oct 12 16:15:56 * MohammadAG51 mumbles cal, i.e mtd1, not on sdk :P
Oct 12 16:16:11 <DocScrutinizer> fair nuff
Oct 12 16:16:41 <RST38h> well...moo...
Oct 12 16:16:49 <DocScrutinizer> moo RST38h
Oct 12 16:19:07 * alterego starts studying QML again
Oct 12 16:25:51 <RST38h> alterego: what stopped it the last time?
Oct 12 16:27:20 <RST38h> OMG Karel Jansens is back to tmo!
Oct 12 16:28:36 <alterego> RST38h: work :)
Oct 12 16:28:57 <RST38h> And he still has his Pandora signature!
Oct 12 16:30:04 <RST38h> No, I am wrong those were the posts from 2009
Oct 12 16:30:21 <alterego> Urgh, it's annoying doing QML dev on my laptop ..
Oct 12 16:30:25 <alterego> No touch screen :(
Oct 12 16:33:29 <RST38h> What does QML have to do with touch screen though?
Oct 12 16:35:16 <alterego> Nothing, but I'm designing the UI and I just want to touch it :(
Oct 12 16:38:21 <RST38h> Ah, you touchy feely developer!
Oct 12 16:39:09 <Myrtti> mmmm, that was a nice dinner
Oct 12 17:10:19 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: luke-jr_ (DrWilken): (my apache problem): /etc/httpd/conf.d got included *after* the dir holding the vhost defs :-P
Oct 12 17:11:34 <DocScrutinizer> so all Options +Index got overridden by the greeter page in apache default host
Oct 12 17:12:43 <DocScrutinizer> (/etc/httpd/conf.d/welcome.conf)
Oct 12 17:15:39 <jacktheripper> which should I use, bootmenu or multiboot ?
Oct 12 17:15:47 <jacekowski> none of the above?
Oct 12 17:16:37 <jacktheripper> umm why not ?
Oct 12 17:17:29 <jacktheripper> or wasn't that directed to me.
Oct 12 17:19:00 <RST38h> Study Finds Most Would Become Supervillians If Given Powers
Oct 12 17:19:33 <RST38h> Definitely needs further experimentative investigation.
Oct 12 17:30:51 <MohammadAG51> i think my N900's gonna break into two pieces soon
Oct 12 17:31:15 <MohammadAG51> gap in slider is getting worse
Oct 12 17:33:25 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: have you checked if maybe the PH0 screws holding/fixing the slider mechanism in body are broken?
Oct 12 17:34:00 <MohammadAG51> i probably need a new slider and screws, and a screwdriver
Oct 12 17:34:01 <MohammadAG51> or just a screwdriver to tighten it
Oct 12 17:34:47 <DocScrutinizer> either that then you need a new slider mechanism probably if you can't remove the lower 'half' of the screw from the thread, or your plasic case lower half is broken where the screw heads are
Oct 12 17:34:51 <vdv> what is the syntax of connecting to remote host via ssh? ssh -l user host:port doesn't work
Oct 12 17:35:33 <mgedmin> ssh user@host -p port
Oct 12 17:35:41 <mgedmin> or ssh -l user host -p port
Oct 12 17:35:57 <mgedmin> if you do it often, edit ~/.ssh/config so it will remember the port for this host
Oct 12 17:36:07 <mgedmin> and user, too
Oct 12 17:37:32 <DocScrutinizer> or write a shellscript like "#! /bin/sh \n ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@192.168.0.202"
Oct 12 17:38:08 <DocScrutinizer> and edit the ssh parameters there to meet your needs
Oct 12 17:38:26 <mgedmin> nah, I suggest .ssh/config
Oct 12 17:38:26 <DocScrutinizer> (my prefered method)
Oct 12 17:38:33 <mgedmin> because then it'll work for scp too
Oct 12 17:38:35 <mgedmin> and for sshfs
Oct 12 17:38:42 <mgedmin> and for svn checkout svn+ssh://host/...
Oct 12 17:38:47 <DocScrutinizer> err, hmm, yes
Oct 12 17:38:47 <mgedmin> and for everything else, basically
Oct 12 17:39:06 <DangerMaus> heh
Oct 12 17:39:12 * mgedmin pulls hair out cursing xpath
Oct 12 17:39:25 <DocScrutinizer> but how'll you handle the frigging known_hosts issue?
Oct 12 17:39:45 <mgedmin> same way you do
Oct 12 17:39:56 <mgedmin> "StrictHostKeyChecking no" in the right Host section
Oct 12 17:40:06 <DocScrutinizer> didn't know you can do it in .ssh/config
Oct 12 17:40:21 <mgedmin> well, I prefer CheckHostIP no, and sometimes HostKeyAlias thisismyserver
Oct 12 17:40:54 <mgedmin> the funny thing is that ssh's -o is a way to put config options on the command line ;)
Oct 12 17:41:07 <DocScrutinizer> rrrrright
Oct 12 17:41:34 <DocScrutinizer> :o)  <-- fool
Oct 12 17:42:19 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, no screwdriver but..
Oct 12 17:42:40 <MohammadAG51> nothing visible
Oct 12 17:42:57 <DocScrutinizer> nothing isn't much eh?
Oct 12 17:43:17 <DocScrutinizer> there should be a screw head PH0 visible ;-)
Oct 12 17:43:33 <DocScrutinizer> at bottom of those holes
Oct 12 17:44:10 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, they are visible, but the slider's squeaky
Oct 12 17:44:22 <vdv> mgedmin, thanks that was just -p flag
Oct 12 17:44:25 <MohammadAG51> when i tilt it (same as when you remove the screen)
Oct 12 17:44:45 <DocScrutinizer> tilt it and watch the screw heads!
Oct 12 17:44:51 <vdv> mgedmin, and strange i have an entry for that host in config
Oct 12 17:45:58 <DocScrutinizer> if they move, check if they are loose or the plasic around them is broken and moves too
Oct 12 17:46:17 <DocScrutinizer> if they don't move, try to UNscrew them!
Oct 12 17:46:31 <MohammadAG51> nope, nothing like that
Oct 12 17:46:39 <DocScrutinizer> witha sharp pointed knife e.g.
Oct 12 17:47:14 <MohammadAG51> wouldn't they strip?
Oct 12 17:47:29 <DocScrutinizer> if the srew head falls out after one or two turns of unscrewing it, the screw is broken
Oct 12 17:47:35 <MohammadAG51> i know how to handle the ribbon btw, i've worked with some 10 of them
Oct 12 17:47:57 <MohammadAG51> so as per tmo rules, I'm an engineer
Oct 12 17:48:20 <DocScrutinizer> if the screw are really tight and hard to unscrew, then check for other cause of the gap
Oct 12 17:48:21 <MohammadAG51> and I declare overclocking safe /sarcasm
Oct 12 17:48:36 <RST38h> mgedmin: XML is evil, Evil, EVIL
Oct 12 17:48:52 * RST38h curses mgedmin with XSLT "programming", just for lulz
Oct 12 17:48:54 <mgedmin> XML ain't that bad, but it spawned lots of truly evil things
Oct 12 17:49:01 <RST38h> yeah
Oct 12 17:49:03 <mgedmin> eeek!  I tried xslt for a week
Oct 12 17:49:21 <RST38h> Mohammad: You are more of an engineer than 99% of tmo regulars nowadays
Oct 12 17:50:20 <jonne|reconnecte> is there a bug with the facebook sharing thing on the n900?
Oct 12 17:50:32 <jonne|reconnecte> the 'update album list' doesn't seem to be working any more
Oct 12 17:50:41 <jonne|reconnecte> 'update album list' button
Oct 12 17:50:55 * DocScrutinizer mumbles GSDC XMLMaker and laughs hysterically
Oct 12 17:52:30 <jonne|reconnecte> oh wait, i changed my facebook password, that must be it
Oct 12 17:52:47 <jonne|reconnecte> there should've been an error message or something, though
Oct 12 17:54:18 <DocScrutinizer> I invented a whole programming language living in a excel sheet and executed by custom cell functions linked in to excel via dcom or whatever it's been called (VBA / VB)
Oct 12 17:54:44 * DocScrutinizer suffocates from laughing like a mad dog
Oct 12 17:55:03 <ieatlint> you laugh, but i have a friend who "scripts" in excel
Oct 12 17:55:03 <wmarone> that sounds evil. very, very evil.
Oct 12 17:55:16 <ieatlint> it was funny until i realized he was serious
Oct 12 17:55:31 <mgedmin> my first job was basically converting Excel macros to a C++ app
Oct 12 17:56:06 <ieatlint> although to make it funnier, this guy also knew cobol
Oct 12 17:56:36 <wmarone> I hope he made good money
Oct 12 17:57:37 <mgedmin> in my case the Excel files were specs, not an actual solution, though
Oct 12 17:57:42 <mgedmin> which makes it a bit less funny
Oct 12 18:00:57 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, unscrewed them, are the top two the ones holding the slider? or are the middle ones involved too?
Oct 12 18:14:35 <DocScrutinizer> top and middle ones (PH0) are slider - bottom two TX4 are keymat only
Oct 12 18:15:13 <DocScrutinizer> BE CAREFULL!! WITH THE FRIGGIN FLATCABLE
Oct 12 18:15:40 <DocScrutinizer> don't bend or pull it
Oct 12 18:16:41 <mgedmin> or poke holes in it
Oct 12 18:17:38 <dRbiG> does n900 has any packet filter by default?
Oct 12 18:17:49 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Oct 12 18:18:15 * Mousey thinks . o O ( iptables? )
Oct 12 18:18:19 <DocScrutinizer> aiui you need power kernel to get netfilters
Oct 12 18:18:28 * Mousey oooohs
Oct 12 18:18:58 <dRbiG> i don't want any packet filters, i'm just having some weird problems with repositories again
Oct 12 18:19:25 <DocScrutinizer> so how will netfilters/iptables/chains help there?
Oct 12 18:19:52 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, if the code existed within xl spread sheet cells it was written in vba and the host object instance had access to the entire model, no dcom required
Oct 12 18:19:53 <dRbiG> they don't, i was thinking that if there were any they might be the problem
Oct 12 18:19:56 <lcuk> :P
Oct 12 18:20:56 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: it was prototyped in VBA, then ported to VB to 'obfuscate' and also speed up (though that wasn't really the point)
Oct 12 18:21:57 <DocScrutinizer> damn this was a cute but weird application
Oct 12 18:22:34 <lcuk> yeah, its not the first or last time people have stored code in a spreadsheet
Oct 12 18:22:45 <DocScrutinizer> the 'code' was in a hidden excel sheet, so users were copying and mailing it with their inventory list
Oct 12 18:22:56 <DocScrutinizer> or order form or whatever
Oct 12 18:24:15 <DocScrutinizer> the dcom extensions added menu points to excel, and also did several checks etc automativcally on every project file open/close/save that had such a hidden code sheet
Oct 12 18:25:22 <lcuk> sneaky
Oct 12 18:25:49 <DocScrutinizer> the code itself had functions to reference indirect or indexed or symbolic to content of the sheets of project holding data, so the format of the data sheets was relatively free
Oct 12 18:27:06 <DocScrutinizer> like "give me the 3rd nonempty cell from left, in a row 2 below the row containing a cell with 'netto'"
Oct 12 18:28:30 <DocScrutinizer> the for loops were nested any depth and somewhat linked with the corresponding <tag> </tag> xml marks
Oct 12 18:34:30 <DocScrutinizer> plus the icing on top was a simple treeview graphical editor to mark ranges in a sheet and then select where to insert these values to the XML tree, with which tags, attributes etc - for the coding illiterate users
Oct 12 18:35:01 <DocScrutinizer> this treeview created 'sourcecode' to the hidden code sheet
Oct 12 18:35:36 <DocScrutinizer> though obviously a subset of the full power of the language definition
Oct 12 18:47:09 <ShadowJK> ah great, my set of cheap china batteries and charger (undoubtedly highly dangerous) arrived
Oct 12 18:47:13 <ShadowJK> but no n900 :(
Oct 12 18:47:31 <DocScrutinizer> :-((
Oct 12 18:48:05 <trumee> guys, is it possible to set-up a static interface for usb networing in NetworkManager?
Oct 12 18:48:31 <DocScrutinizer> duh, now I recall my boss (customer) back when even registered a few software patents on details of that XMLMaker, mentioning me as the original author :-D
Oct 12 18:48:44 <trumee> i am stuck in a hotel with a very poor wifi connection. only wifi on laptop works and so want to connect N900 via usb networking
Oct 12 18:49:20 * ShadowJK is tempted to disassemble one of these batteries instead
Oct 12 18:49:29 <trumee> added issue is that network manager works on my opensuse 11.3 pc but traditional networking is giving me pain.
Oct 12 18:49:42 <DocScrutinizer> whf is wifi on N900 not working while wifi on laptop does?
Oct 12 18:49:53 <ShadowJK> presumably laptop has bigger antenna
Oct 12 18:50:09 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: coz, the antenae in n900 is tiny compared to laptop
Oct 12 18:50:21 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Oct 12 18:50:35 <trumee> so anybody understands knetworkmanager?
Oct 12 18:51:04 <kthomas> yeah,  but my laptop has a 6" cable to the antenna,  which is a lot of attenuation.
Oct 12 18:51:14 <DocScrutinizer> I found N900 wlan being more sensitive than most of the wlan sticks and builtin of laptops I ever used
Oct 12 18:51:15 <trumee> ifconfig shows n900 interface here. but i dont know how to set it up in knetworkmanager
Oct 12 18:51:47 <kthomas> plus the manufacturer randomly cut the cable length...
Oct 12 18:51:57 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: i have n900 and laptop sitting side by side. N900 simply drops the connection whereas laptop is chugging along
Oct 12 18:52:03 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: knetmanager should be really simple
Oct 12 18:52:46 <DocScrutinizer> ~dict knete
Oct 12 18:52:49 <infobot> could not find definition for knete
Oct 12 18:52:56 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: where do setup a static interface, which one do i select wired/wireless/mobile broadband/vpn/dsl ?
Oct 12 18:53:00 <kthomas> trumee,  the chipset in your laptop is going to be many decibles more sensitive,  and perform better with respect to noise interference
Oct 12 18:53:18 <kthomas> mostly due to component size
Oct 12 18:53:38 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: i cant find any place to specify n900 interface (and also cant see eth0 and eth1 either)
Oct 12 18:54:21 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: config connections -> the tabs are for wireless, GPRS, DSL, ethernet...
Oct 12 18:54:53 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: yes, which one do i select amongst these?
Oct 12 18:55:50 <DocScrutinizer> for wireless? obviously wireless
Oct 12 18:56:12 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: does usb networking fall under wireless?
Oct 12 18:56:21 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Host_configuration_on_Debian_Lenny
Oct 12 18:56:22 <DocScrutinizer> nope, for sure not
Oct 12 18:56:37 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: so where do i set static ip for /dev/n900 ?
Oct 12 18:57:16 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: i dont have /etc/network/interfaces on opensuse. although even if it was there knetworkmanager wouldnt see it
Oct 12 18:58:44 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: my best guess is that i need "Wired" connection, but there is no way to find out whether knetworkmanager is setting /dev/eth0 (actual wired connection) or /dev/n900
Oct 12 18:59:48 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: any suggestions?
Oct 12 19:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> nope, actually not. I managed this via yast-networkcards, and after that knetworkmanager was aware of the 'nic'
Oct 12 19:01:27 <DocScrutinizer> but what you need isn't a nic for N900 aiui
Oct 12 19:02:03 <DocScrutinizer> you want PC to be a nic *to* N900
Oct 12 19:02:14 <DocScrutinizer> or a router actually
Oct 12 19:02:26 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: so i need to add the N900 nic in yast and then knetwork manager will see it?
Oct 12 19:02:32 <DocScrutinizer> I honestly doubt this can be configured via knetworkmanager
Oct 12 19:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: yes, then you can access internet via N900 GPRS
Oct 12 19:03:18 <DocScrutinizer> by simply selecting it in knetworkmanager
Oct 12 19:03:23 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: http://dragly.org/2010/07/18/connect-to-your-n900-while-developing-via-usb/ doesnt work for me
Oct 12 19:04:37 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: sorry, I've never bothered to do this with N900, just have a few scripts and experience in connecting Freerunner to internet via USB networking, using laptop as router/NAT
Oct 12 19:05:28 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: no worries
Oct 12 19:07:26 <vdv> is there any keyboard shortcut to show apps menu?
Oct 12 19:07:54 <DocScrutinizer> check out mhd
Oct 12 19:08:23 <DocScrutinizer> http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/repo.html
Oct 12 19:09:12 <DocScrutinizer> Modified_Hildon_Desktop, also keyboard-shortcuts - A package that adds keyboard shortcuts for launching applications.
Oct 12 19:12:13 <DocScrutinizer> /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav -> 2 : Go to launcher.
Oct 12 19:14:11 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, mhd crashes my device a lot, at least with thp's patches
Oct 12 19:14:19 <MohammadAG51> could be the alt+tab
Oct 12 19:14:59 <DocScrutinizer> whatever thp patches might be
Oct 12 19:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> mhd works like a charm here
Oct 12 19:16:14 <MohammadAG51> * [thp] (~thp@Maemo/community/contributor/thp): Thomas Perl
Oct 12 19:17:18 * DocScrutinizer shrugs
Oct 12 19:17:55 <DocScrutinizer> I suppose he didn't patch perl into HD?
Oct 12 19:19:17 <DocScrutinizer> so it's nice to know who's thp, but I still got nfc what's thp patches
Oct 12 19:27:21 <VladNistor> hello everyone! i'm trying to repartition my flash with "Solution #6: Custom repartitioning from a linux PC" from http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash
Oct 12 19:28:26 <VladNistor> when I run ~/n900-rescue-initrd$ rpm2cpio nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1-1.3.armv7l.rpm | cpio -vid it says http://pastebin.com/3KNSzu6q
Oct 12 19:28:34 <VladNistor> basically, permission denied
Oct 12 19:28:52 <VladNistor> I'm on Ubuntu 10.10
Oct 12 19:29:53 <VladNistor> should I just go sudo!! ?
Oct 12 19:30:10 <yacc> Wondering, does the wifi hotspot app support infrastructure mode, or only adhoc wlan connections?
Oct 12 19:37:32 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: solved it. ifconfig n900 192.168.2.4
Oct 12 19:37:50 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: simple solution, no messing about with knetworkmanager
Oct 12 19:38:46 <VladNistor> yacc, Mobile hotspot is adhoc as far as I can tell, just ran it and connected from the laptop
Oct 12 19:39:35 <yacc> VladNistor, as I have no readily available laptop, and mobile hotspot does not want to work, I just wondered if it's worth the bother, ...
Oct 12 19:39:36 <yacc> ;)
Oct 12 19:40:24 <VladNistor> i dunno, i had to wait for it to connect to the gprs before it worked :)
Oct 12 19:42:07 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: :nod: that's the simple part though
Oct 12 19:43:40 <DocScrutinizer> VladNistor: what are you tying to do?
Oct 12 19:43:58 <DocScrutinizer> just increase size of /home partition?
Oct 12 19:44:27 <VladNistor> well decrease the mydocs partition and make 1-2 ext4 ones
Oct 12 19:44:59 <DocScrutinizer> VladNistor: check http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
Oct 12 19:45:10 <DocScrutinizer> 2nd box
Oct 12 19:45:21 <DocScrutinizer> should give you a few ideas
Oct 12 19:46:50 <VladNistor> thanks DocScrutinizer
Oct 12 20:01:46 <VladNistor> lol, i ended up using the meego wiki as the commands in the maemo one seem to be incomplete... shrinking /dev/sdb1 :)
Oct 12 20:10:55 <yacc> I wonder what the use of libdvdread is for a device like the N900, ...
Oct 12 20:11:57 <ni1s> yacc, playing dvd images?
Oct 12 20:20:32 <DocScrutinizer51> playing DVDs even?
Oct 12 20:22:06 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders idly if libdvdreadmwill obsolete libdecss
Oct 12 20:23:39 <ShadowJK> i think it does
Oct 12 20:24:26 <DocScrutinizer51> err libdvdcss is the correct name
Oct 12 20:24:31 <VladNistor> awesome, i got Input/output error during write on /dev/sdb while resizing the vfat partition...
Oct 12 20:24:51 <VladNistor> and then Invalid argument during seek for write on /dev/sdb
Oct 12 20:25:27 <VladNistor> good thing I saved most of my data...
Oct 12 20:25:38 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG51: couuld you try hooking up your external drive to N900 and playback a video DVD?
Oct 12 20:27:11 <DocScrutinizer51> VladNistor: err, on sdb aka eMMC? that's not exactly a good thing to have IO errors there
Oct 12 20:27:59 <VladNistor> yeah DocScrutinizer51, on there while using gparted. but I had it chack the partition afterwards and it says it's ok
Oct 12 20:28:20 <MohammadAG> muhahaha http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=839508#post839508
Oct 12 20:31:24 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer51, hmm, why does it have to be a video DVD? Normal DVDs work
Oct 12 20:31:24 <MohammadAG> how do I play a DVD though, I doubt the internal media player plays them
Oct 12 20:31:48 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: I wanna know if decss works
Oct 12 20:33:53 <DocScrutinizer51> you'd think a contact of ubuntu and meego maintainer and whatnot might have heard of (1) strings and (1) grep and google
Oct 12 20:34:30 <DocScrutinizer51> ~lart busybox
Oct 12 20:34:31 * infobot takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down busybox's throat until busybox puts on 150lbs
Oct 12 20:34:42 <DocScrutinizer51> ~messybox
Oct 12 20:34:43 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Oct 12 20:35:30 <MohammadAG51> yeah, that's what i was thinking (ubuntu guy)
Oct 12 20:35:36 * MohammadAG51 used grep
Oct 12 20:35:42 <DocScrutinizer51> also I never heard of motd being hardcoded to a shell startup
Oct 12 20:35:54 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer51, how do I actually play the DVD?
Oct 12 20:36:18 <DocScrutinizer51> meh, I never did - on any PC
Oct 12 20:36:49 <DocScrutinizer51> I'd guess mplayer or vlc or similar might do it
Oct 12 20:39:34 <johnsq> Hi
Oct 12 20:40:38 <DocScrutinizer51> lo
Oct 12 20:41:44 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG51: maybe you find an app that rdepends on libdvdread ;-)
Oct 12 20:41:47 <MohammadAG> damn freenode lag
Oct 12 20:42:03 <MohammadAG> I freaking hate freenode, other servers don't lag, at all
Oct 12 20:42:20 <DocScrutinizer51> MohammadAG: try a different server?
Oct 12 20:42:22 <MohammadAG> good, it cycled me to the next server
Oct 12 20:42:29 <MohammadAG> 0.6s lag
Oct 12 20:42:41 <MohammadAG> 0.2, nice, it was 1000+
Oct 12 20:42:56 <MohammadAG> I was replying to the povbot logs
Oct 12 20:42:57 <DocScrutinizer51> eeeew
Oct 12 20:52:34 <DocScrutinizer> yes, freenode's DNS based 'load balancing' is quite random and usually nonsense for me. I mean what's the use of connecting to a freenode server 1000s of miles away while the nearest one is close enough to shout over
Oct 12 20:53:58 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer: that's how DNS works
Oct 12 20:54:03 <DocScrutinizer> DNS hierarchy isn't exactly duplicating any geographical or backbone topoligy
Oct 12 20:54:03 <luke-jr_> at least for IPv4
Oct 12 20:54:09 <luke-jr_> I think IPv6 is supposed to fix that a bit
Oct 12 20:54:16 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr_: yep, well understood
Oct 12 20:54:33 <VladNistor> yay, resize worked the second time :D
Oct 12 20:54:49 <DocScrutinizer> heh
Oct 12 20:55:03 <MohammadAG> it spins!
Oct 12 20:55:16 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Oct 12 20:55:40 <DocScrutinizer> catweazle: "move the tape along the he
Oct 12 20:55:43 <DocScrutinizer> head"
Oct 12 20:58:48 <MohammadAG> nice, stuck in a_suspend
Oct 12 20:58:55 <MohammadAG> should've used the proper hub
Oct 12 21:03:46 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: try 'echo r >/proc/driver/musb_hdrc' - maybe also 'u'
Oct 12 21:05:14 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: see, that's exactly what we need to do for hostmode: find the proper 'magic sequence' so it works even without 'proper hub'
Oct 12 21:08:27 <MohammadAG> apologies, apparently the hub was working, the drive was sleeping
Oct 12 21:08:28 <DocScrutinizer> hostmode as it is now relies on HNP which involves VBUS meddling and a lot of timing critical things regarding electrics of the USB port. That's the reason it works with one peripheral and refuses to work with another one of same type - though both are for example memsticks 1G, the one may have different power consumption than the other so VBUS discharges with a different rate
Oct 12 21:09:28 <MohammadAG> ARGH
Oct 12 21:09:46 <Hoxzer> ....yes
Oct 12 21:10:26 <nidO> man, its amazing just how far *backwards* the availability of decent tablets has gone since the release of the ipad :<
Oct 12 21:10:27 <MohammadAG> I'm using the kernel without CD/DVD support
Oct 12 21:11:05 <DocScrutinizer> lol...errhmhrm
Oct 12 21:11:25 <MohammadAG> apt-worker needs to die
Oct 12 21:11:44 <DocScrutinizer> indexer needs to die
Oct 12 21:11:59 <MohammadAG> thumbnailer too
Oct 12 21:12:03 <DocScrutinizer> yup
Oct 12 21:12:52 <DocScrutinizer> friggin thumbnailer freezes my device after first camshot, whe trying to watch the photo shot
Oct 12 21:13:19 <DocScrutinizer> obviously it thinks it has to thumbnail the 13GB of mp3 :-S
Oct 12 21:14:04 <DocScrutinizer> ~curse the guy that had the idea to use a general index for media
Oct 12 21:14:04 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, the guy that had the idea to use a general index for media !
Oct 12 21:14:19 <MohammadAG> actually, it reindexes your whole library, just for the hell of it
Oct 12 21:14:47 <DocScrutinizer> comes in handy when you try to take more than one photo at a time
Oct 12 21:15:07 <FauxFaux> Heh, I put 6gb of 10+MP photos in my home directory, it wasn't greatly happy about that.
Oct 12 21:15:09 <DocScrutinizer> I'd call it a ***BUG***
Oct 12 21:15:55 <DocScrutinizer> tracker/thumbnailer IS a bug in itself
Oct 12 21:16:33 <DocScrutinizer> and HOORAY we see same bullshit in meego(-core?)
Oct 12 21:16:59 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I don't mind tracker (on a quad core i7 running off AC)
Oct 12 21:17:02 <DocScrutinizer> but "you can send patches once we released 1.1" - suuuuure
Oct 12 21:17:34 <MohammadAG> but when tracker decides to kick in when the battery low sound goes, then it indexes the whole library till the battery dies is something I don't appreciate
Oct 12 21:17:45 <MohammadAG> when the battery dies, the tracker database gets corrupt
Oct 12 21:17:54 <DocScrutinizer> nice
Oct 12 21:18:10 <MohammadAG> so when you start up again -> (no songs), (no videos), (no images), sometimes corrupt /home
Oct 12 21:18:16 <DocScrutinizer> I think you at least can forbid indexing while on battery
Oct 12 21:18:17 <nidO> tbh its hardly just maemo/meego though, I have to wonder every time I ever see/use any kind of media application that mandatorily builds/maintains its own index of your content if the software's designers have ever actually used any kind of media software
Oct 12 21:18:19 <MohammadAG> then it rapes the battery again
Oct 12 21:18:34 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I never recharge
Oct 12 21:19:00 <MohammadAG> I always charge the batteries externally
Oct 12 21:19:01 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: yep, it's as well unbearable config option
Oct 12 21:19:31 <MohammadAG> charging externally is epic
Oct 12 21:19:36 <MohammadAG> you get to wait twice the time
Oct 12 21:19:37 <DocScrutinizer> as the whole mafw or whatever it's called relies on this BUG
Oct 12 21:22:21 <DocScrutinizer> the whole system architecture is completely useless as far as it is faintly connected to tracker. And it's obviously impossible to discuss system architecture
Oct 12 21:22:45 <DocScrutinizer> even for meego
Oct 12 21:24:18 <pupnik> i almost just said a stupid thing
Oct 12 21:24:22 <pupnik> lucky for you i didn't
Oct 12 21:26:08 * DocScrutinizer heads out to get a wodka, for the shock and luck in this almost fatality
Oct 12 21:26:27 <pupnik> cheers DocScrutinizer
Oct 12 21:27:04 <pupnik> so is this libpcap plus modem info turning up interesting things yet?
Oct 12 21:28:06 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: I posted a link to wireshark dissecting modem commands recently, didn't you notice that one?
Oct 12 21:29:12 <pupnik> i vaguely recalled some chatter about it - don't recall the link
Oct 12 21:29:48 <DocScrutinizer> https://elektranox.org/n900/images/wireshark/04.png
Oct 12 21:30:12 <pupnik> oh
Oct 12 21:30:13 <DocScrutinizer> https://elektranox.org/n900/libisi/index.html
Oct 12 21:30:50 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Oct 12 21:31:39 <ShadowJK> did luke see that?
Oct 12 21:31:51 <pupnik> hey is that gps data an 'unadvertised feature' of the phone operation?
Oct 12 21:32:13 <DocScrutinizer> DocScrutinizer SpeedEvil: jacekowski: https://elektranox.org/n900/images/wireshark/04.png
Oct 12 21:32:25 <DocScrutinizer> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-12.log.html#t2010-10-12T01:35:29
Oct 12 21:33:05 <DocScrutinizer> DocScrutinizer luke-jr_: ^^^
Oct 12 21:33:20 <DocScrutinizer> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-12.log.html#t2010-10-12T01:36:09
Oct 12 21:33:55 <DocScrutinizer> so, dunno if luke-jr_ noticed it, I tried to let him know
Oct 12 21:33:57 <ShadowJK> pupnik, well not really. It's just that the GPS is connected to the phone side
Oct 12 21:34:23 <pupnik> oh how droll
Oct 12 21:34:39 <DocScrutinizer> ??
Oct 12 21:34:50 <pupnik> seems that could have been kept seperate
Oct 12 21:35:10 <pupnik> maybe not i guess it depends on what's on the market
Oct 12 21:35:27 <DocScrutinizer> BB5 needs access t GPS for satisfying the 'localization' requirements of 3GPP
Oct 12 21:35:28 <pupnik> what's the scoop DocScrutinizer
Oct 12 21:35:35 <pupnik> ahh ok ty
Oct 12 21:36:21 <pupnik> who got that requirement into 3GPP?
Oct 12 21:36:22 <fcrochik> DocScrutinizer51: sorry for jumping into the moving train from time to time but: I see 10 decimal places on your screenshot and I only get 4 with Qt Mobility...
Oct 12 21:36:34 <DocScrutinizer> executive
Oct 12 21:37:12 <MohammadAG> I need another N900
Oct 12 21:37:15 <DocScrutinizer> emergency services, like paramedics... police... FBI???
Oct 12 21:37:44 <MohammadAG> FBI, cause they're totally after you
Oct 12 21:37:58 <DocScrutinizer> fcrochik: that's not exactly my screenshot
Oct 12 21:38:00 <MohammadAG> I'm surprised google never made it to your list DocScrutinizer
Oct 12 21:38:47 <DocScrutinizer> google has no direct control over the GSM OTA protocol (yet?), so it's useless for them
Oct 12 21:38:49 <pupnik> i imagine that GPS could be really helpful for the provider to finetune their network
Oct 12 21:38:58 <pupnik> get more feedback on local conditions
Oct 12 21:39:21 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: for that they won't rely on user devices
Oct 12 21:39:43 <DocScrutinizer> too unprecise, and not really needed
Oct 12 21:39:56 <SpeedEvil> It's not unprecise in aggregate
Oct 12 21:40:04 <DocScrutinizer> and BTS aren't dynamically tuned
Oct 12 21:40:50 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, DVD plays, sort of
Oct 12 21:41:10 <DocScrutinizer> largely the BTS freq, locations, and power and directional properties are based on calculations of a model of the whole terrain
Oct 12 21:41:20 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: :-D
Oct 12 21:41:48 <MohammadAG> if I play the vob files, it works, but...
Oct 12 21:41:50 <MohammadAG> MPlayer was compiled without libdvdread support.
Oct 12 21:42:13 <DocScrutinizer> I'm sure the poor little 600MHz cpu is overwhelmed by the decoding
Oct 12 21:42:36 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Oct 12 21:43:18 <DocScrutinizer> so the question why it's there is quite legitimate
Oct 12 21:43:28 <DocScrutinizer> (libdvdread)
Oct 12 21:43:30 <MohammadAG> indeed
Oct 12 21:43:37 <MohammadAG> someone compile it for me, I have to go to bed :P
Oct 12 21:43:46 <DocScrutinizer> :-)
Oct 12 21:43:51 <DocScrutinizer> 'nite moh
Oct 12 21:43:51 <MohammadAG> night o/
Oct 12 21:45:47 <DocScrutinizer> fcrochik: there's a bug ticket for that (4 decimals of lon/lat) - I'd guess opened by SpeedEvil
Oct 12 21:45:54 <DocScrutinizer> iirc
Oct 12 21:46:30 <DocScrutinizer> was related to geotagging the camera photos though
Oct 12 21:47:35 <DocScrutinizer> tzz, why do you leave ZNC, moh?
Oct 12 21:48:08 <ioan> hi. any good google voice applications?
Oct 12 21:48:22 <DocScrutinizer> *cough*
Oct 12 21:48:47 <fcrochik> DocScrutinizer51: ah... hopefully this is not the only bug....because even with only 4 decimal places my gps jumps like crazy when I am stationary
Oct 12 21:49:18 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, should stabilze after a few minutes though
Oct 12 21:49:51 <DocScrutinizer> ask SpeedEvil - he's the god of GPS
Oct 12 21:50:41 <pupnik> thanks DocScrutinizer - thanks for the info again!  - exactly what i was curious about :)
Oct 12 21:50:51 <DocScrutinizer> yw pupnik
Oct 12 21:51:44 <pupnik> well.  conditions might get more dynamic sooner than we like
Oct 12 21:52:31 <DocScrutinizer> which conditions?
Oct 12 21:53:02 <SpeedEvil> fcrochik: See http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS
Oct 12 21:53:42 <SpeedEvil> fcrochik: 50% of points - in good conditions - fall within a 2.2m radius circle.
Oct 12 21:54:11 <SpeedEvil> fcrochik: 99.8% of points fall within a 60m radius.
Oct 12 21:55:21 <nox-> moin
Oct 12 21:55:56 <fcrochik> SpeedEvil: very cool info... so it must be an issue with qt mobility... I have to test outside my house... inside my position changes every second and by maybe some 20m or so....
Oct 12 21:56:29 <fcrochik> SpeedEvil: and I am on the second floor right by the window on a house ...
Oct 12 21:56:43 <achipa> fcrochik: precision != accuracy
Oct 12 21:57:00 <achipa> those two cna be very distinct in the gps realm
Oct 12 21:57:05 <achipa> s/cna/can/
Oct 12 21:57:05 <infobot> achipa meant: those two can be very distinct in the gps realm
Oct 12 21:57:59 <fcrochik> SpeedEvil: one question (now that you know that you are the GOD of the GPS): qt mobility allows you to set the interval to get positions reported.... any guidance here? once a second? 10 times a second?
Oct 12 22:00:31 <fcrochik> SpeedEvil: I mean...now that I know you are ... :)
Oct 12 22:02:49 <fcrochik> I guess this is the perfect opportunity for me to announce my new app (just uploaded to extras-devel): a native front end for google maps...
Oct 12 22:02:58 <CreamyG> anyone know how to change the configure command in ESbox or maybe eclipse?
Oct 12 22:03:03 <fcrochik> http://maemo.org/packages/view/geeps/
Oct 12 22:03:13 <CreamyG> hmmm that sounds too good to be true man
Oct 12 22:23:21 <fcrochik> some screenshots: http://maemo.crochik.com/home/geeps
Oct 12 22:25:28 <SpeedEvil> fcrochik: The raw hardware does not return data more than once a second typically as I understand it.
Oct 12 22:25:42 <SpeedEvil> fcrochik: Also - some windows are GPS-opaque vunctionally
Oct 12 22:29:32 <fcrochik> SpeedEvil: thanks for the info... my application plots the position regardless of the street so it is quite interesting to see google maps x gps position....is I was using it to guide a car or something I would cut many corners literally
Oct 12 22:31:25 <mcunix> sera
Oct 12 22:31:42 <mcunix> come si imposta la passwd di root da shell dell' N900
Oct 12 22:31:43 <mcunix> ?
Oct 12 22:32:27 <nox-> i dont speak spanish (or whatever that is), but the default root pw is empty
Oct 12 22:32:51 <nox-> just need to install the rootsh package...
Oct 12 22:35:40 <achipa> mcunix: sudo gainroot
Oct 12 22:35:44 <achipa> mcunix: passwd
Oct 12 22:36:04 <achipa> (in case you were asking how to set the root pass)
Oct 12 22:36:08 <achipa> if not... oops
Oct 12 22:36:46 <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Accuracy may also be interesting to you fcrochik
Oct 12 22:37:48 <mcunix> achipa: enable RD mode if you want to break your device
Oct 12 22:39:44 <fcrochik> SpeedEvil: thank you... if you decide to try my app let me know what you think... it seems that this is one of your areas of expertise...
Oct 12 22:41:17 <achipa> mcunix: aha, install rootsh from extras first, no root hanky-panky until you do that
Oct 12 22:45:04 <CreamyG> cool i'm installing your gps thing fcrochik
Oct 12 22:45:35 <fcrochik> CreamyG: let me know how you like it
Oct 12 22:46:48 <ioan> any IPv6 gurus here?
Oct 12 22:48:33 <ioan> google voice plugin works fine if I connect to the internet over wifi. If I connect using T-Mobile's IPv6, the browser works, the email works... but google voice plugin can't connect.
Oct 12 22:48:51 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Oct 12 22:55:23 <luke-jr_> ShadowJK: DocScrutinizer: why do I need to see that?
Oct 12 22:55:40 <luke-jr_> more like, did that guy see my work, or is he trying to repeat it?
Oct 12 22:56:28 <DocScrutinizer> sorry for disturbing you
Oct 12 22:56:40 <DocScrutinizer> won't happen again
Oct 12 22:57:40 <CreamyG> fcrochik, i got it installed but i had to manually install the libqt-location first
Oct 12 22:58:21 <CreamyG> also it went to "other" instead of location/navigation in the menu
Oct 12 22:58:52 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer: …
Oct 12 22:59:46 <fcrochik> CreamyG: did you install using the application manager or fap? it should handle the dependencies... I guessed the name of the group... probably it is not location :)
Oct 12 23:01:06 <CreamyG> fcrochik: app manager, it listed it as a problem and said it won't install on the details tab, although i didn't actually try clicking install to verify it doesn't auto install.
Oct 12 23:01:34 <nox-> ioan, read up on net neutrality...  (i.e. tmobile just wanst to charge you for voice calls)
Oct 12 23:18:07 <ioan> nox-: the problem seems to be in the google voice plugin. I can do whatever I want in the browser on google voice website with IPv6, and the plugin just connects to same website...
Oct 12 23:33:01 <wmarone> wow
Oct 12 23:33:11 <wmarone> mediabox seriously needs to be profiled
Oct 12 23:33:14 <DocScrutinizer51> meh, google voice. I'd probably rather use skype, and I hate skype
Oct 12 23:33:29 <wmarone> its excess cpu usage killed my battery ~4 hours earlier than it would otherwise have
Oct 12 23:35:57 <DocScrutinizer51> skype? or GV?
Oct 12 23:36:07 <DocScrutinizer51> though both prolly do
Oct 12 23:36:54 <wmarone> no no, mediabox
Oct 12 23:37:18 <wmarone> though I would not expect reasonable battery life on either of those :)
Oct 12 23:37:21 <SpeedEvil> It's probably not. The CPU really has a tough time draining the battery in 4h
Oct 12 23:37:26 <SpeedEvil> the radios - easily
Oct 12 23:37:42 <wmarone> nono, my battery gave up ~4 hours -earlier-
Oct 12 23:37:53 <wmarone> it's been going since 7 AM
Oct 12 23:37:56 <SpeedEvil> ah
Oct 12 23:38:09 <DocScrutinizer51> especially GSM
Oct 12 23:38:34 <nox-> 3g needs less power than gsm?
Oct 12 23:38:43 <SpeedEvil> no, more.
Oct 12 23:38:47 <nox-> ah ok :)
Oct 12 23:38:52 <SpeedEvil> twice to three times in some cases
Oct 12 23:39:00 <DocScrutinizer51> err, 3G *is* a flavour of GSM
Oct 12 23:39:09 <nox-> hah ok
Oct 12 23:39:11 <DocScrutinizer51> (not really though)
Oct 12 23:39:16 <SpeedEvil> I am at the moment streaming 700kbps video over 3g
Oct 12 23:40:32 <DocScrutinizer51> damn, missing my booksmarks from laptop. no link to the dsl speedtest page here in my pub
Oct 12 23:40:44 <SpeedEvil> Discharging at 100mA with the screen off.
Oct 12 23:40:52 <SpeedEvil> and connected to USB
Oct 12 23:41:07 <DocScrutinizer51> wut video with screen off?
Oct 12 23:42:01 <DocScrutinizer51> also 700kb over UMTS with 100mA
Oct 12 23:42:10 <SpeedEvil> tethering.
Oct 12 23:42:16 * DocScrutinizer51 cursing mce
Oct 12 23:42:31 <DocScrutinizer51> ~kill mce
Oct 12 23:42:32 * infobot shoots a inverse anti-photon gun at mce
Oct 12 23:43:04 <DocScrutinizer51> kbd backlight is random
Oct 12 23:43:17 <DocScrutinizer51> no way to fic that shit
Oct 12 23:43:24 <DocScrutinizer51> see?
Oct 12 23:43:33 <DocScrutinizer51> blindtyping
Oct 12 23:43:47 <rtyler> any of you chaps find that modest chews up a godawful amount of CPU?
Oct 12 23:43:56 * rtyler wishes there were a better mail client in maemo5
Oct 12 23:44:13 <DocScrutinizer51> modwst??? naaw
Oct 12 23:44:28 <DocScrutinizer51> claw
Oct 12 23:44:29 <SpeedEvil> I uninstalled modest.
Oct 12 23:44:41 <rtyler> SpeedEvil: what do you use?
Oct 12 23:45:02 <DocScrutinizer51> nuttin?
Oct 12 23:45:08 <rtyler> NO MAIL! OH NOES!
Oct 12 23:45:09 <rtyler>  :D
Oct 12 23:45:32 <SpeedEvil> rtyler: I rarely use mail.
Oct 12 23:45:36 <SpeedEvil> rtyler: on the phone
Oct 12 23:45:40 <rtyler> ah
Oct 12 23:45:49 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, nonsense
Oct 12 23:45:53 <rtyler> DocScrutinizer51: does Claws integrate well like maemo5 does?
Oct 12 23:46:03 <DocScrutinizer51> no
Oct 12 23:46:10 <DocScrutinizer51> prolly not
Oct 12 23:46:31 <DocScrutinizer51> never gave it a try
Oct 12 23:46:34 <SpeedEvil> rtyler: I tend to find myself using my phone for several things. Either watching TV while washing up, listening to podcasts, or occasional IRC in the garden, and photos.
Oct 12 23:46:45 <SpeedEvil> Comparatively little browsing or email.
Oct 12 23:46:59 <rtyler> heh, I use it primarily for both of those :P
Oct 12 23:47:45 <SpeedEvil> Largely BBC content actually.
Oct 12 23:47:58 <SpeedEvil> Sky at night ++ get_iplayer++
Oct 12 23:48:01 <DocScrutinizer51> browsing yes. email? noooo way
Oct 12 23:48:04 <ioan> the special 3G connection I have for IPv6 seems like doesn't use any battery :-) I mean if I don't use the phone, the battery lasts for 2-3 days with the connection ON all the time
Oct 12 23:48:15 <DocScrutinizer51> email's not twitter
Oct 12 23:48:27 <SpeedEvil> ioan: data connectiuon 'up' - uses almost no power.
Oct 12 23:48:35 <rtyler> DocScrutinizer51: what does that have to do with anything? i)I
Oct 12 23:48:38 <rtyler> o_O*
Oct 12 23:49:37 <SpeedEvil> I guess meaning it doesn't need checked very often.
Oct 12 23:49:51 <DocScrutinizer51> reading email means I either regret doing that or I want to answer. Answer appropritely on N900? c'mon
Oct 12 23:50:02 <ioan> SpeedEvil, tell me master, how do I make the google voice plugin work on ipv6?
Oct 12 23:50:18 <rtyler> DocScrutinizer51: email is also used by lots of folks for say, production alerting/notifications
Oct 12 23:50:31 <rtyler> I can fire off pretty good replies on the n900 in most cases
Oct 12 23:50:42 <SpeedEvil> ioan: I have no clue, I've never tried the google voice plugin, I was under the imnpression it required a third party SIP service.
Oct 12 23:50:43 <rtyler> it's just that I can't do much while using modest <_<
Oct 12 23:50:45 <nox-> SpeedEvil, iplayer-- sky at night used to be on the web for everyone and now its geoblocked... :(
Oct 12 23:50:51 <DocScrutinizer51> rtyler: granted
Oct 12 23:50:54 <rtyler> mediaplayer skips terribly when using mail
Oct 12 23:50:55 * rtyler grumbles
Oct 12 23:50:57 <SpeedEvil> nox-: well - yes.
Oct 12 23:50:59 <DocScrutinizer51> not me though
Oct 12 23:51:41 <ioan> SpeedEvil: I use it just to send receive sms... so it doesn't need anything except the plugin. I didn't try the voice part tho
Oct 12 23:52:00 <SpeedEvil> nox-: http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2010-October/000175.html
Oct 12 23:52:03 <SpeedEvil> ioan: ah
Oct 12 23:52:09 <SpeedEvil> err
Oct 12 23:52:16 <SpeedEvil> isn't the plugin x86 only?
Oct 12 23:52:24 <SpeedEvil> OR am I misunderstanding.
Oct 12 23:52:41 <DocScrutinizer51> I use sms to notify me about urgen things
Oct 12 23:52:54 <DocScrutinizer51> much better than mail
Oct 12 23:53:39 <DocScrutinizer51> I even get sms notifications on new mail :-P
Oct 12 23:54:13 <nox-> SpeedEvil, heh nice :)
Oct 12 23:54:56 <luke-jr_> ioan: any idea if IPv6 works with prepaid?
Oct 12 23:55:41 <DocScrutinizer51> err read Ur Q
Oct 12 23:55:54 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: it's gonna vary with provider I imagine.
Oct 12 23:56:08 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: There is relatively little need.
Oct 12 23:56:20 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: as they can NAT the ipv4 without problems.
Oct 12 23:56:59 <DocScrutinizer51> how's payg related *technically* to ipv6??
Oct 12 23:57:18 <SpeedEvil> It's not.
Oct 12 23:57:20 <luke-jr_> SpeedEvil: I'm talking specific to T-Mo
Oct 12 23:57:34 <SpeedEvil> I haven't tried ipv4 with t-mo
Oct 12 23:57:38 <luke-jr_> which doesn't have PAYG data
Oct 12 23:57:39 <SpeedEvil> (though I'm on t-mo uk)
Oct 12 23:57:49 <luke-jr_> T-Mo IPv6 is some kind of beta
Oct 12 23:57:51 <SpeedEvil> And I'm streaming video on my PAYG data
Oct 12 23:58:27 <luke-jr_> well, technically PAYG has data for ONLY their Sidekick (Hiptop) phones
Oct 12 23:58:35 <luke-jr_> which I presume don't support IPv6
Oct 12 23:58:49 <luke-jr_> so the question is, do I want to risk losing *all* connectivity by admitting I use something else?
Oct 12 23:58:51 * SpeedEvil is glad he doesn't live in the USA.
Oct 12 23:59:45 <DocScrutinizer51> rule of thumb: if you use same APN, you'll use same tech service
Oct 13 00:00:04 <DocScrutinizer51> billing is a different thing
Oct 13 00:00:10 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer51: but if they want to, they can force me to another APN
Oct 13 00:00:25 <DocScrutinizer51> yes, anytime
Oct 13 00:00:51 <luke-jr_> T-Mo has been known to kick people off the Hiptop plan if they find out you don't have one
Oct 13 00:01:14 <luke-jr_> since Hiptop doesn't support IPv6, requesting the beta would be admitting to using a different device
Oct 13 00:01:23 <luke-jr_> ergo, I could get cut off
Oct 13 00:02:03 <DocScrutinizer51> yuck
Oct 13 00:05:02 <DocScrutinizer51> for 25€ i get 5GB/mo here plus a bonus on top worth 60min voice or 120 sms. more than enough (we don't pay for inbound call minutes here)
Oct 13 00:05:57 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer51: they also only allow Unlimited Data subscribers on the IPv6 beta
Oct 13 00:07:38 <DocScrutinizer51> I have a bonus account worth 10h of voice now
Oct 13 00:08:45 <DocScrutinizer51> and every 5 months my regular account has enough to pay the 30 bucks
Oct 13 00:15:07 <dolp> should QMessageManager's countMessages() count all messages in el-v1.db? or how does it work?
Oct 13 00:15:34 <DocScrutinizer51> tbh I give no   f..k on ipv6 _ they should just offer a decent way to config the NAT
Oct 13 00:17:27 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm just happy with NAT keeping internet noise away from my GSM radio
Oct 13 00:29:33 <DocScrutinizer51> ~status
Oct 13 00:29:33 <infobot> Since Thu Sep 16 09:58:38 2010, there have been 210 modifications, 2561 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 1286 commands.  I have been awake for 26d 14h 28m 37s this session, and currently reference 117348 factoids.  I'm using about 38392 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 8858.66/215.38 child 0/0
Oct 13 00:31:00 * DocScrutinizer51 stares on 0 morons 0 dunnos in disbelief
Oct 13 00:37:22 <DocScrutinizer51> *ve?
Oct 13 00:41:45 <Billynkid> Quick query anyone here used their n900 with ubuntu one music?
Oct 13 00:42:48 <Billynkid> Having a slight problem not sure if it should be filed as a bug under maemo or ubuntu
Oct 13 00:43:54 <Billynkid> The problem is tracks downloaded have no mp3 extension as such they do not appear as track under media player or mediabox?
Oct 13 00:44:43 <DocScrutinizer> correct
Oct 13 00:45:22 <Billynkid> So is that Ubuntu or maemo?
Oct 13 00:45:24 <DocScrutinizer> missing extension probably confuses tracker - not that it could get worse with tracker anyway
Oct 13 00:46:16 <DocScrutinizer> that's errr... PLEASE KILL TRACKER WITH FIRE
Oct 13 00:46:21 <Billynkid> I'd say maemo as rythmbox the app syncing the mp3 with the N900 recongnizes them
Oct 13 00:46:39 <DocScrutinizer> and the guy who decided on this system architecture as well
Oct 13 00:47:44 <Billynkid> Can't it just read the header and work it out the way linux does?
Oct 13 00:47:54 <DocScrutinizer> there's a mediaplayer plugin to play arbitrary files or even directories (yes, dirs as in unix mkdir)
Oct 13 00:48:02 <Billynkid> Extensions r so winblows
Oct 13 00:48:24 <Billynkid> Really
Oct 13 00:48:38 <DocScrutinizer> tracker concept was born with a gashead
Oct 13 00:49:41 <Billynkid> Does plugin have a name?
Oct 13 00:50:22 <Billynkid> Does it mean mediaplayer/box sees the files?
Oct 13 00:50:31 <DocScrutinizer> this mediaplayer plugin is somewhat flawed as it plays directories in no particular sequence (or probably the native inode sequence)
Oct 13 00:50:54 <DocScrutinizer> for the name you have to wait until HAM finishes startup :-D
Oct 13 00:50:57 <Billynkid> Yeah noticed that too.
Oct 13 00:51:09 <Billynkid> HAM?
Oct 13 00:51:20 <DocScrutinizer> hildap app manager
Oct 13 00:51:27 <DocScrutinizer> hildon wtf
Oct 13 00:52:29 <DocScrutinizer> ahh, btw: check out mussorgsky - a nice tool
Oct 13 00:52:36 <DangerMaus> heh
Oct 13 00:53:06 <DocScrutinizer> fsck, I deinstalled that plugin :-/
Oct 13 00:55:01 <GermanME> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/aircrackng/ <- does anybody know if this package should include airodump-ng too or where i could get airodump seperately for os2007he?
Oct 13 00:55:33 <DocScrutinizer> airodump is included
Oct 13 00:55:48 <DocScrutinizer> dunno if it works (except for chan #6)
Oct 13 00:56:06 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, OS2007 - sorry NFC
Oct 13 00:56:27 <GermanME> just saw somebody using it on youtube running on the n770, so there seems to be some hope ^^
Oct 13 00:57:27 <GermanME> couldn't get airodump-ng to start yet, it keeps saying it doesn't know the command, but it's good to know it actually should be in the package, thx so far
Oct 13 01:00:30 <DocScrutinizer> GRILO
Oct 13 01:00:58 <DocScrutinizer> mafw-grilo-source plugin for fremantle media player
Oct 13 01:02:04 <DocScrutinizer> in mediaplayer root window (musc, video, radio, random) open menu, click 'plugins'
Oct 13 01:02:19 <DocScrutinizer> Billynkid: ^^^
Oct 13 01:03:40 <DocScrutinizer> there's "filesystem" allowing to playback arbitrary files and whole folders. It has quirks but is the *Right Thing*
Oct 13 01:04:54 <DocScrutinizer> never tested "Jamendo", "SHOUTcast", and "Youtube" plugins
Oct 13 01:05:22 <DocScrutinizer> but actually this pkg made my day(s)
Oct 13 01:05:36 <DocScrutinizer> ~lart tracker
Oct 13 01:05:37 * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking tracker's head off
Oct 13 01:05:43 <DocScrutinizer> ~burn tracker
Oct 13 01:05:43 * infobot pours gasoline all over tracker, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Oct 13 01:06:28 <DocScrutinizer> damn I'm not such an idiot I can't manage to copy my mp3 to the right folder
Oct 13 01:08:14 <DocScrutinizer> and thumbnailer is even MUCH worse, not only showing your p0rn pics from last hidden drawer in photoviewer, but also all irreco buttons and other shit you never knew you even have
Oct 13 01:09:53 <DocScrutinizer> "hello landlord, look here! that's what you need to fix in my flat. slide right or left to get to next photo" ... "OOOPS, that's a picture of my appendix surgery"  *W*T*F*!!
Oct 13 01:12:02 <DocScrutinizer> well done NOKIA! really! exorbitantly well done, your MMI designers are just gods of wisdom
Oct 13 01:12:43 <DocScrutinizer> heh, I'm doing usability resaerch, and you can hire me!
Oct 13 01:15:05 <luke-jr_> if you have pr0n pics, you deserve to be exposed >☺
Oct 13 01:15:13 <DocScrutinizer> but meh, with meego everything will be cheesecake and singing birds... nah wait - tracker and thumbnailer becoming mandatory parts of meego?
Oct 13 01:15:48 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr_: interested in my abscess I documented for my doctor?
Oct 13 01:16:48 <DocScrutinizer> I'll send it to you... ooopsie once more, clicked one pos off and sent goatse
Oct 13 01:19:58 <DocScrutinizer> honestly, tracker/thumbnailer is the most retarded concept I ever got to know of
Oct 13 01:20:08 <luke-jr_> it was retarded when KDE did it too
Oct 13 01:20:14 <luke-jr_> they called it Nepomuk
Oct 13 01:20:15 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Oct 13 01:20:17 <luke-jr_> everyone hates it
Oct 13 01:20:30 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't make it better?
Oct 13 01:21:12 <DocScrutinizer> though on KDE you got proper filemanagers and stuff, to stick with directory tree for arbitrary file types
Oct 13 01:23:03 <DocScrutinizer> maemo/meego is *relying* on this shit, and doesn't even offer a proper alternative. Not even community based plugin pkgs can completely fix the basic issue, due to "we want to keep it closed source - to DIFFERENTIATE" MUHAHAHAHAHAAaaa
Oct 13 01:25:46 <DocScrutinizer> and on meego when asking "is this really a good concept" you get flames and kicks and "you're free to send patches *after* we implemented the BS as defacto standard"
Oct 13 01:26:50 <DocScrutinizer> ~debian meego
Oct 13 01:26:50 * infobot tells meego to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Oct 13 01:28:10 <nox-> .oO(i guess thats the same kind of thinking that got us x startup with black screen, no cursor and ctrl-alt-backspace disabled...)
Oct 13 01:28:42 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: sorry you lost me, please elaborate
Oct 13 01:28:58 <DocScrutinizer> what's 'that's'
Oct 13 01:29:14 <nox-> this `userfriendliness' stuff
Oct 13 01:29:46 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, the "tracker is for noobs and winzombies" thinking?
Oct 13 01:29:52 <nox-> yeah
Oct 13 01:29:58 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Oct 13 01:31:25 <nox-> for ppl that dont know what a dir is or that cant read urls...
Oct 13 01:31:48 <DocScrutinizer> just like .documents, like "sudo gainroot", like VFAT (well, I'm not that harsh on this particular one)...
Oct 13 01:32:24 <DocScrutinizer> like "no access to ~/*"... in HFM
Oct 13 01:32:34 <nox-> yeah
Oct 13 01:32:34 <DocScrutinizer> nor anywhere lese in system
Oct 13 01:33:11 <nox-> and noone ever bothered to test things like less or mutt in their xterm :)
Oct 13 01:33:12 <DocScrutinizer> grant me one hour with the usability guys in a closed room, please
Oct 13 01:33:42 <DocScrutinizer> duh, what's less??? we got messybox
Oct 13 01:34:03 <DocScrutinizer> and we consider to remove xterm from stock image
Oct 13 01:34:10 <nox-> eww
Oct 13 01:34:35 <nox-> ..and replace it with putty or what? :)
Oct 13 01:34:44 <DocScrutinizer> you'll get security framework instead, then you'll never ever again need root or console or cmdline or...
Oct 13 01:35:26 <nox-> err well _then_ i might just as well get an iphone and jailbreak it :(
Oct 13 01:36:16 <DocScrutinizer> WTF has this device -what's it called ? N900, RX-51 - a hw keyboard? that's not what we at Nokia products thought it should look like
Oct 13 01:36:32 <nox-> (i mean i thought the point of maemo was that you _dont_ need to `jailbreak' it to make it useful...)
Oct 13 01:38:46 <DocScrutinizer> the point in maemo never has been geek compatibility. It's always been about getting a *free* (as in beer) OS - at least for some parts of Nokia
Oct 13 01:39:43 <openstandards> Hi all i'm having trouble with sfdisk i run the command and my n900 replies with command not found
Oct 13 01:40:11 <DocScrutinizer> there's been a few advocats of FOSS (especially Quin I guess), but the management that owns the money wasn't interested in FOSS ever
Oct 13 01:40:38 * luke-jr_ hasn't really seen Quim advocate for free software.
Oct 13 01:40:42 <openstandards> grrr ok my bad you need to sudo to use it
Oct 13 01:40:47 <luke-jr_> just make excuses for things being closed
Oct 13 01:40:53 <DocScrutinizer> they didn't even understand what community or FOSS means
Oct 13 01:41:15 <openstandards> what are you lot talking about
Oct 13 01:42:01 <DocScrutinizer> openstandards: use 'root' (or sudo gainroot)!
Oct 13 01:42:04 <luke-jr_> Nokia
Oct 13 01:42:19 <openstandards> DocScrutinizer, yeah thanks i figured it out
Oct 13 01:43:09 <DocScrutinizer> openstandards: cfdisk is more userfriendly than sfdisk, I'd think
Oct 13 01:43:30 <openstandards> to be fair thou alot of nokia's work has ended up in upstream in distros, shame that maemo died out to quick
Oct 13 01:43:36 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer: IIRC cfdisk isn't ideal for SSD?
Oct 13 01:43:44 <luke-jr_> openstandards: really? what?
Oct 13 01:43:58 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr_: maybe you got a point there
Oct 13 01:44:13 <DocScrutinizer> sfdisk is rather powerful it seems
Oct 13 01:44:34 <openstandards> well wasn't telepathy backed highly by nokia and they did hire a lot to work on gstreamer
Oct 13 01:44:59 <luke-jr_> shrug
Oct 13 01:45:05 <luke-jr_> telepathy quite frankly seems broken by design
Oct 13 01:45:28 <DocScrutinizer> and gstreamer has been around for years
Oct 13 01:45:32 <luke-jr_> in any case, anything depending on glib is wasted effort
Oct 13 01:46:16 <DocScrutinizer> ohnoes, me seems has to leave now -it's getting political once more
Oct 13 01:46:26 <luke-jr_> :p
Oct 13 01:46:30 <openstandards> DocScrutinizer, yeah thats true but theres no denying that the n700 etc... has helped the desktop...
Oct 13 01:46:50 <DocScrutinizer> err?
Oct 13 01:47:48 <openstandards> well nokia has pushed their tablets for years, alot of that stuff has ended up in the n900
Oct 13 01:47:48 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, if you are talking about friggin PulseAudio breaking my carefully optimized 10 year old ALSA config for desktop, then yes, you're right
Oct 13 01:47:58 <luke-jr_> openstandards: the GTK desktop sucks, as it always has :P
Oct 13 01:48:14 <luke-jr_> DocScrutinizer: hahaha
Oct 13 01:48:16 * openstandards likes gnome :)
Oct 13 01:49:05 <nox-> DocScrutinizer, http://matt.bottrell.com.au/uploads/Pics/linuxaudio.png
Oct 13 01:49:07 <nox-> :)
Oct 13 01:49:20 <luke-jr_> btw, why the *#(%&#( is T-Mobile sending me a SIM card via UPS?
Oct 13 01:49:24 <DocScrutinizer> naw, starts wit g*, like gconftool and gstreamer, and g***
Oct 13 01:49:30 <luke-jr_> is there some reason they can't just stick it in an envelope?
Oct 13 01:49:50 <nox-> luke-jr_, maybe they want a tracking #?
Oct 13 01:50:03 <openstandards> luke-jr, is it costing you any extra? :D
Oct 13 01:50:16 <luke-jr_> openstandards: no, but probably slower
Oct 13 01:50:26 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: *L*O*L*
Oct 13 01:50:32 <luke-jr_> Friday to Wednesday
Oct 13 01:50:42 <luke-jr_> pretty sure an envelope would have got here Sat or Mon
Oct 13 01:50:44 <luke-jr_> '
Oct 13 01:51:44 <openstandards> the sip stack for the n900 seems ok must admit
Oct 13 01:51:44 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: BTW this diagram is incorrect (or call it BS)
Oct 13 01:51:51 <DocScrutinizer> where's OSS today?
Oct 13 01:52:15 <luke-jr_> openstandards: the SIP stack predates 770 too
Oct 13 01:52:15 <DocScrutinizer> ALSA soundcard drivers are native, not OSS
Oct 13 01:52:47 <nox-> well libasound _can_ go via oss too if you reall need it
Oct 13 01:52:58 <nox-> (like we sometimes do on freebsd :)
Oct 13 01:53:03 <nox-> really
Oct 13 01:54:52 <DocScrutinizer> yes, everything *can* use OSS, but that diagram is as wrong as it gets, regarding what's a standard linux audio system nowadays
Oct 13 01:55:16 <DocScrutinizer> even 3 years back
Oct 13 01:58:50 <DocScrutinizer> even twinkle has OSS audio device support, though it's kinda deprecated (like OSS at large since, err 2002?) and probably not working anymore
Oct 13 02:00:24 <DocScrutinizer> now PA is raiding the scene and boldly claiming it's going to fix all the flaws in ALSA that actually are not in ALSA but in PA
Oct 13 02:00:32 <nox-> haha
Oct 13 02:00:38 <nox-> chrome for example needs alsa
Oct 13 02:02:34 <DocScrutinizer> example? ALSA dmix, PA dudes say it never worked - for me it works flawlessly and like a charm, since I fixed my config, but !!PA!! is eating 30% cpu by mixing idle streams. So what's the broken mixer of the both?
Oct 13 02:03:13 <nox-> i wonder if its about `userfriendliness' again...
Oct 13 02:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> granted, ALSA config is a nightmare, mainly due to missing or abyssmal docs. But is that a good reason to discard the code/software instead of fixing the docs?
Oct 13 02:04:40 <DocScrutinizer> and, is PA doc any better?
Oct 13 02:04:54 <nox-> yeah im not disagreeing with you...
Oct 13 02:05:26 <openstandards> why do some bother with oss?
Oct 13 02:05:45 <DocScrutinizer> who does?
Oct 13 02:06:04 <nox-> the oss like we have on freebsd has in-kernel mixing and per-app volume control for example...
Oct 13 02:06:15 <DocScrutinizer> OSS is actually officially deprecated, since years
Oct 13 02:06:22 <nox-> on linux, yes
Oct 13 02:06:30 <openstandards> when i used arch alot did
Oct 13 02:07:21 <openstandards> that was about two years ago tho
Oct 13 02:07:24 <nox-> so freebsd users neither need an .asoundrc nor any `sound daemons' usually
Oct 13 02:07:31 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: (per app vol, mixing) great - seems it's on par with ALSA, almost at least :-D
Oct 13 02:08:08 <nox-> just sayin' :)
Oct 13 02:08:58 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, another evidence you can live (much better) *without* that PA abomination
Oct 13 02:09:17 <nox-> exactly
Oct 13 02:09:41 <DocScrutinizer> well, night peeps
Oct 13 02:10:28 <nox-> sweet dreams... :)
Oct 13 02:14:21 <johnx> hallo all :D
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