**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 19 02:59:57 2010 Oct 19 04:25:26 n900 alarm is very useless :( Oct 19 04:25:33 alarm clock Oct 19 04:26:34 vdv, WORKSFORME Oct 19 04:31:05 yes, it works, but it lasts too short Oct 19 04:31:50 if i don't wake up and press snooze then it just stops to alarm Oct 19 04:32:20 Mine just sat there and wouldn't shut up until i pressed snooze or ok. Only time I've used it (a couple of days ago) Oct 19 04:33:51 worksforme every morning Oct 19 04:34:05 the buzz from the vibrator is enough to wake me up.... Oct 19 04:37:40 asj, I'm a heavy sleeper :p and I go to bed late so when I need to be awake real early I need more than a vibration :p Oct 19 04:37:56 TermanaN900: that's what she said ;) Oct 19 04:38:09 err wait Oct 19 04:38:14 heh Oct 19 04:47:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HSPA_mobile_phones the N900 is not listed. I/IV/VIII ? Oct 19 04:48:28 that would seem like a silly big list Oct 19 04:48:30 same radio as (one kind of) the Nexus One? Oct 19 04:48:39 it's often most useful Oct 19 04:49:03 'cos .. see AWS is using 1700 for UL and 2100 for DL Oct 19 04:49:35 therefore if a manufacturer just lists 1700/2100 then it's anyone's guess whether it means I / IV or just the two frequencies of IV is listed. Oct 19 04:50:17 chx, same radio? HELL NO. Same frequencies? yes Oct 19 04:50:25 heh Oct 19 04:50:33 why "hell no" ? Oct 19 04:51:12 most importantly, there is no separate N900 for Europe and T-Mobile/Wind? Because then I can sell my E51 as I have a smartphone for Europe too. Oct 19 04:51:26 chx, the N900's and Nexus One's radio/modem is completely different Oct 19 04:51:55 I see. Oct 19 04:52:10 They just operate on the same frequencies. Except the AT&T Nexus One which is different frequencies Oct 19 04:52:17 OK, adding the N900 Oct 19 04:52:32 the N900 does 2100mhz umts, the 1700/2100 aws is in addition Oct 19 04:53:47 asj, I think you mean 900/1700 Oct 19 04:54:52 TermanaN900: I was not clear. AWS uses frequencies in both 1700 and 2100, but not the same frequencies as plain old 2100mhz umts Oct 19 04:55:22 whoever came up with this should be shot :P Oct 19 04:55:36 7 Oct 19 04:57:09 ds3 - ate 9 Oct 19 04:59:18 *BuRP* Oct 19 05:01:56 Hey, I am trying qtirreco but it does not seem to work with my receiver and when I try to see the ir light using a camera and pressing a button nothing seems to appear :/ Oct 19 05:12:57 Kathy is _he_? Oct 19 05:13:15 ? Oct 19 05:13:32 damn i grew a tail again Oct 19 05:14:14 http://maemo.org/community/council/state_of_maemo-q32010-1/ search for "He reads the community mailing lists" Oct 19 05:15:20 okay, next sentence says "she" Oct 19 05:15:40 maybe is both Oct 19 05:15:43 lol haha Oct 19 05:15:43 :| Oct 19 05:15:53 he/she Oct 19 05:16:48 can someone ban Roger Sperberg from planet maemo, btw? Oct 19 05:40:45 * MohammadAG51 broke his busybox haha Oct 19 05:41:51 <3 xchat Oct 19 05:41:53 i couldn't start terminal but... Oct 19 05:41:58 /exec echo "apt-get install busybox" | root Oct 19 05:42:01 worked xD Oct 19 05:42:05 o_o Oct 19 05:42:14 i should take note of that one Oct 19 05:42:35 ...how did you break busy box to begin with Oct 19 05:43:33 replaced it with a different build Oct 19 05:43:37 Hi all ! Oct 19 05:44:26 ZogG, it was just a 3 days honeymoon, not the real one, the real longer honeymoon moon will be in few months :) Oct 19 05:48:05 Khertan: congrats! Oct 19 05:48:30 thx Oct 19 05:58:29 * RST38h chuckles at the Stellarium thread Oct 19 05:59:26 If you want to make money from your work, don't fucking GPL it. Oct 19 05:59:38 If you already GPLed, don't act silly trying to make money from it. Oct 19 06:14:13 RST38h: but... it's ok to try to make money from it. It's usually not too successful, but doesn't hurt to try... Oct 19 06:14:59 RST38h: also, URL or it didn't happen Oct 19 06:15:17 :S so much spam on the maemo planet Oct 19 06:28:17 Hi all Oct 19 07:25:37 Myrtti: http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/55192-stellarium/page__view__findpost__p__918622 Oct 19 07:29:03 * johnx beats his head against a recursive function Oct 19 07:39:04 summel, yeah, but it's basically that one guy Oct 19 07:39:41 hello johnx Oct 19 07:39:50 RST38h, alternatively: if you're going to walk the thin line between the GPL and selling it commercially, then you need to figure that out ahead of time, not after the fact Oct 19 07:39:52 johnx: still i find it kind of annoying reading bad posts with no real content and just the message "buy more N900s they are great" Oct 19 07:39:55 evenin' RST38h Oct 19 07:40:17 especially on planet maemo where most readers already have an N900 i guess Oct 19 07:40:22 summel, once they lock this guy out it should all stop, thankfully Oct 19 07:40:30 johnx: Basically, do not GPL your work unless you are absolutely sure it has no commercial value Oct 19 07:41:02 BTW, is this planet maemo guy ill or something? Oct 19 07:41:16 Or is it a really sophisticated form of trolling? =) Oct 19 07:41:24 the mysql guys seemed to manage ok Oct 19 07:41:39 johnx: afaik, no Oct 19 07:41:44 RST38h: Just out of curiosity, couldn't you post your GPL product for sale... Remembering that you A, have to provide code, and B, that anyone can take your code and provide it free themselves? Oct 19 07:41:55 I mean, it's not impossible to dual license *if you plan it from the start very carefully* Oct 19 07:41:58 Robbie: You can Oct 19 07:41:59 but it's very hard Oct 19 07:42:11 Robbie: Does not mean anyone will buy it, with free version being available Oct 19 07:42:33 hmm, actually I wonder about the sales stats for 'xchat for windows' Oct 19 07:42:35 Robbie: But I am sure you can simply google for the topic and get all the opinion and information you need Oct 19 07:42:48 Yea, I was just checking Oct 19 07:43:28 I kinda like the way X-chat people have done things Oct 19 07:43:58 of course there is a free version of Windows X-chat available, but on the official site the Windows binary is something you have to pay for Oct 19 07:44:25 * RST38h has done that before Oct 19 07:44:45 Usually lasts until the first Chinese guy takes your source code and compiles a free binary Oct 19 07:44:48 I don't know - I think you'd get some takers, provided the "official" version's in a better repo, and support is provided. Sure, you can compile it from source yourself, but a number of people will just pay the fee to get a "safe", bug-free product Oct 19 07:45:24 *sigh* my wallet feels like a slot machine today Oct 19 07:45:44 Then, independently on how half-baked that binary is, you get a fecal bombardment from the lemmings reporting how BAD your (pirated) product is in comparison with the free version Oct 19 07:46:37 But, doesn't that sort of happen with all products, no matter what you do? Oct 19 07:46:58 Well, it does not happen with the products for which the source code is not publicly available. Oct 19 07:47:01 Like the guys who pirate some commertial software, then complain when it doesn't work right, and or ask for support Oct 19 07:47:44 Once again, every product can get pirated, but you should not make it uber easy by publishing yoru source code for free :) Oct 19 07:48:00 And if you do publish your source code for free, do not expect to make money on the product. Oct 19 07:48:32 huh? why not? Oct 19 07:48:34 Either that, or try and hope some percentage of people are willing to donate money to help you out Oct 19 07:48:39 just look at redhat Oct 19 07:48:47 Don't Oct 19 07:48:53 Because none will. Oct 19 07:49:34 RobbieThe1st, look at all the other commercial linux distros that failed Oct 19 07:49:35 I'd offer Spore by EA as a better example. It's got the best copy-protection on the market at the time. It was available (cracked), before it reached the market legally. No source code was availaible. Oct 19 07:50:08 * RST38h isn't sure what Robbie is talking about Oct 19 07:50:25 RST38h, I think he's talking about people pirating mold :) Oct 19 07:50:53 A Spore has been a closed-source project to begin with, it is outside of the scope for this particular discussion Oct 19 07:51:17 johnx: Are they using mold to get high or what? =) Oct 19 07:51:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_(2008_video_game)#Controversy Oct 19 07:51:39 RST38h, EA? nah, I think it's some substance the execs naturally produce ... Oct 19 07:51:56 though I have heard that you'd have to be high to work there ... Oct 19 07:52:10 What I'm saying is that, even putting your code under the strictest license available, with the best DRM to protect it... you are -still- going to have a huge amount of piracy. Oct 19 07:52:23 uhm, but RobbieThe1st does have a point: Your stuff will get pirated whether there is source code or not Oct 19 07:52:32 johnx: Oh! What orifice is it coming out of? Oct 19 07:53:08 but if it's open source, it's not being pirated, it's just someone providing a better build, and if their website is half as good as yours, their build will be more popular Oct 19 07:53:19 johnx: Of course. But then, nobody (but lawyers) is trying for 100% protection any more. It just has to be good enough. Oct 19 07:53:37 johnx: Usually a worse build, but free Oct 19 07:53:57 And what I'm saying is that -nothing- on the market is "good enough", unless it's essentially a cloud-interactive bit of software. Oct 19 07:54:08 johnx: Sometimes a better one, eventually, but at that point they usually change the name of the software Oct 19 07:54:13 RST38h, if your build system is worth anything, I'd hope 'your build' should be reproducible by just about anyone, but I suppose that makes an assumption ;) Oct 19 07:54:29 Robbie: Of course there are things on the market that provide good enough protection Oct 19 07:54:35 Like? Oct 19 07:54:41 Robbie: Do you want me to give you some examples? Oct 19 07:54:45 RobbieThe1st, and have you noticed that's the way things are going? Oct 19 07:54:46 Yes, I would Oct 19 07:54:51 Robbie: Sony PSP starting with firmware 5.04 Oct 19 07:55:08 Robbie: And yes, I would appreciate if you googled for information before blurting things out =) Oct 19 07:55:34 johnx: Oh, there are several different ways to do it Oct 19 07:55:53 ... Sony PSP is an inherently closed device, and not at all relevent to what we are talking about. I'm talking a PC, or Maemo device, which is what we are developing for Oct 19 07:55:54 johnx: A popular one is "here is the linux source code, but the windows port is prorpietary" Oct 19 07:56:07 johnx: And this approach does not work either, in case you wonder :) Oct 19 07:56:26 RST38h, yeah ;) turns out there are windows programmers too :P Oct 19 07:56:27 Robbie: Any contemporary PC game that requires online registration. Oct 19 07:56:55 for example: haven't heard whether steam has been 'hacked' or not Oct 19 07:56:58 Robbie: And I do have to warn you that I have had this pro/anti piracy chat many times over the past years, so there is nothing you can surprise me with :) Oct 19 07:57:20 but that's the other part of the spectrum: 'providing good enough protection and a genuinely worthwhile distribution system' Oct 19 07:57:26 johnx: Well, maybe not very good windows programmers, but "free" beats "good" most of the time Oct 19 07:57:53 johnx: I think that HL2 etc probably are available cracked, but a program like TF2, which is online... you wouldn't gain anything by cracking it. Oct 19 07:57:55 RST38h, more so in some demographics than others, but yeah Oct 19 07:58:04 johnx: Exactly ;) Oct 19 07:58:28 IRCers and people who like emulators: hard market Oct 19 07:58:39 johnx: More generally: kids. Oct 19 07:59:02 professional graphics artists who are actually making a living: not quite as hard Oct 19 07:59:02 johnx: It is determined by age way more than by a certain genre Oct 19 07:59:18 RST38h, age and whether the program can be expensed ;) Oct 19 07:59:32 johnx: People who are already making money have both the disposable income and understanding of what it takes to earn it Oct 19 07:59:41 My point is that, if there's enough demand for something, it'll be cracked if your userbase is acceptable to such things. Adding protection won't help; the best - only- way of "solving the problem" is to get a userbase who believes in paying the author. Oct 19 07:59:50 RST38h, and the fear of being sued and losing their means of production Oct 19 08:00:06 johnx: I doubt that plays a ig enough role :) Oct 19 08:00:26 Morning, all Oct 19 08:00:33 johnx: We probably both know that the anti-piracy laws are largely unenforceable Oct 19 08:00:46 And yes, someone who has money to actually purchase such things and doesn't have the hours on hand to pirate/build it themselves will probably spend the money. Oct 19 08:00:56 johnx: I.e. you probably CAN enforce them, at the cost of turning the whole society into a surveillance state Oct 19 08:01:23 johnx: Which, I am sure, we will all end up with, but not right away :) Oct 19 08:01:49 RobbieThe1st, so effectively you're saying "There are whole classes of software that you shouldn't even try to make money on" Oct 19 08:02:09 RST38h, I'm liking Greenland more and more these days :) Oct 19 08:02:44 What I'm saying is that you should expect "piracy", whether you A, release your source, B, just release a binary, or C, add drm to it for "protection". Oct 19 08:03:55 Either that, or produce a product that can't be effectively pirated. Say, sell the data-source, give away the software. Sell the online multiplayer subscription, give away the game. Oct 19 08:04:03 RobbieThe1st, great. we're at the same conclusion. the question is: can you reduce piracy by N while only spending M on DRM (where M < N) Oct 19 08:04:37 Robbie: Should I simply summarize what you are trying to say? Oct 19 08:04:41 and the answer seems to be "yes, if you don't totally cock it up" Oct 19 08:04:43 I mean, to save traffic? Oct 19 08:04:48 OOo Oct 19 08:04:58 vs StarOffice Oct 19 08:04:59 DocScrutinizer, OpenOffice.org? Oct 19 08:05:04 DocScrutinizer, LibreOffice Oct 19 08:05:42 there's no problem in having a commercial plus a GPL version of *YOUR* code concurrently Oct 19 08:05:50 That too Oct 19 08:05:51 Doc: There is Oct 19 08:06:12 DocScrutinizer, not from a legal sense. just from an economic sense Oct 19 08:06:18 Doc: BTW, GPL does not say you cannot SELL the source code, it just says you have to make it available Oct 19 08:06:27 RobbieThe1st, anyways, does that sound about fair? Oct 19 08:07:08 johnx: Yes, I agree. I'm also saying though - based on my readings of /., which are biased I suppose - that DRM usually costs more than it protects. Oct 19 08:07:21 It does not Oct 19 08:07:22 RST38h: no, doesn't apply for Original Author. He always holds the full copyright and can develop further on a changed licence model Oct 19 08:07:40 Slashdotters are a very special bunch, not all they would like to believe is true Oct 19 08:07:43 RST38h, err... i actually I believe it does say you have to provide the source for the binary for free or for a fair price for the distrubution Oct 19 08:07:52 he must not include other original authors' work though Oct 19 08:07:55 Termana: For the fair price, yes Oct 19 08:07:57 And, it can often force legit, paying customers to piracy if the restrictions are too severe. Oct 19 08:08:00 in the n900 I have a contact with 2 numbers. When I get an SMS I can't tell which number the used, but the reply goes automatically to the right number, but then if I want to send it to the other number I can not identify it from the menu selections as it is not shown :( Any clues anyone? Oct 19 08:08:10 Robbie: Ok, to summarize and save you some typing Oct 19 08:08:11 RobbieThe1st, example: xbox 360 and PS3. I would say their DRM was largely successful over a long period of time Oct 19 08:08:21 They are closed platforms though Oct 19 08:08:33 RobbieThe1st, that means nothing Oct 19 08:08:40 Robbie: You are suggesting that, as the piracy happens anyway, it makes no sense to protect software from it, and the best protection is to release the software for free Oct 19 08:08:51 GPL applies for *other author's code* - not for your own generic code Oct 19 08:08:54 Robbie: Have I summarized your point of view correctly and fully? Oct 19 08:09:00 anyways, you guys have fun. 'night all Oct 19 08:09:08 g'night johnx Oct 19 08:09:25 I'm saying that selling your code is fine. Releasing your source is better, IMHO. Adding DRM just causes issues, most of the time. Oct 19 08:09:40 Ok Oct 19 08:09:59 Robbie: May I ask your age? (sorry) Oct 19 08:10:32 19, why? Oct 19 08:10:47 Robbie: We should have this same conversation in 10 years. Oct 19 08:10:53 Also, note that I do not pirate any software, and haven't ever. Oct 19 08:11:02 Robbie: Yes, I know Oct 19 08:11:29 Robbie: Still, 10 years, and then (if we are both still alive of course) we talk again Oct 19 08:12:04 Yes, I suppose, though I'm not sure my view will change, not being a professional developer. Oct 19 08:12:10 But I get your point Oct 19 08:12:30 Prolly will, usually does. Oct 19 08:12:33 Here's the real kicker, finding how to sell something that has numerous copyright holders and is GPL (eg. the linux kernel or a linux distro). Oct 19 08:12:55 Not that you will start advocating DRM but you will see why copyright protection is needed Oct 19 08:12:59 Without providing proprietart extentions Oct 19 08:13:06 Termana: You can't. Oct 19 08:13:42 Oh, I understand copyright protection, and am OK with it(some of the limits, however...). I really -appreciate- it when people release their code however, even if I have to purchase the product to get the code. Oct 19 08:14:07 RST38h, and here i was thinking you would unveal some master business plan and we could split profits 50/50 Oct 19 08:14:21 RST38h, now I just have spoiled fun. Thanks Oct 19 08:14:22 :p Oct 19 08:14:43 Hehe Oct 19 08:14:51 TermanaN900: Can't you sell disks, physical media, and or high-speed downloads? That is, in addition to support? Oct 19 08:14:58 I have this great plan. Let's sell all of the things that aren't the code. Oct 19 08:15:06 We can call our business "RedHat". Oct 19 08:15:13 If it's not already taken. Oct 19 08:15:16 derf: Redhat sells liability Oct 19 08:15:22 Not software Oct 19 08:15:29 RobbieThe1st, yeah, Canonical is being real profitible with that. Oct 19 08:15:32 Not. Oct 19 08:15:42 RST38h: That is one of "the things that aren't the code". Oct 19 08:15:56 yeah Oct 19 08:16:00 well atleast this week the conversation seems to be somewhat Maemo related Oct 19 08:16:01 True, it depends on the size of your organization, obviously Oct 19 08:16:05 bonus points to you guys Oct 19 08:16:15 RST38h: sure you can sell linux distro CD Oct 19 08:16:23 Myrtti: What? No talk about PR1.3 for >2 hours? Oct 19 08:16:28 for any price people are willing to pay Oct 19 08:16:30 ~pr1.3 Oct 19 08:16:31 STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever Oct 19 08:16:31 Doc: Only if someone buys it :) Oct 19 08:16:42 RST38h, so, are you a BSD-license advocate then? Oct 19 08:16:47 Over GPL Oct 19 08:16:48 :p Oct 19 08:17:26 SuSE did this for years Oct 19 08:17:27 ok - I'll ask a different question ;) What's the methodolgy for getting the phone apps to work over ssh to a laptop? Oct 19 08:17:44 For example, as a one person or "family buisness", I bet you could make some money providing cheap/free copies of Ubuntu, and good support to go with it. If you could find some people willing to use it over Windows. Oct 19 08:17:52 DocScrutinizer, they're not doing so hot now, are they? Oct 19 08:18:00 RST38h: no talking about communist hamburgers and royalist French Oct 19 08:18:04 nope, things changed nowadays Oct 19 08:18:10 crap. said I was going to sleep ... Oct 19 08:18:38 we've seen a lot of commercial linux distros tank Oct 19 08:18:46 waaay more than succeeded Oct 19 08:18:57 johnx: nowadays they sell SLES for 700bucks, incl service Oct 19 08:18:58 RobbieThe1st: Well the thing is, you have to (as default) provide windows support for free for your family anyway, so providing free support for OS you actually know and use is always a "step up" :) Oct 19 08:19:10 Yea Oct 19 08:19:27 Myrtti: Come one, you know you like it Oct 19 08:19:45 Myrtti, open to other topics. suggestions? Oct 19 08:19:47 As my last point, I have to say that market is everything. Trying to market an app to tweens and teens who have a lot of time on their hands and not much money, probably won't do too well. Marketing it to professionals and buisnesses... Probably will do better. Oct 19 08:19:57 RST38h, you didn't answer my license question? Oct 19 08:20:36 RobbieThe1st: marketing to the business and prefessionals kids will do even better ;) Oct 19 08:20:55 johnx: I'm fine with the software related discussion Oct 19 08:21:12 jpinx-eeepc: Not sure what you mean, exactly Oct 19 08:21:13 Myrtti, even though it's the same old 'commercial vs open source'? Oct 19 08:21:14 johnx: last week was a trip to Absurdistan in relation to discussion topics Oct 19 08:21:34 johnx: even that's better than me wondering is everyone on acid Oct 19 08:21:50 RobbieThe1st: the way to market a gizmo to a professional family is to hit the kids with it Oct 19 08:22:02 Myrtti, you worry about us when we're not around? Oct 19 08:22:14 johnx: of course :-) Oct 19 08:22:16 ~nuke Myrtti Oct 19 08:22:16 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Myrtti ... B☢☢M! Oct 19 08:22:21 aw. Oct 19 08:22:23 you stole my acid! Oct 19 08:22:24 Myrtti: what is wrong with acid? Oct 19 08:22:25 jpinx-eeepc: Yea, you mean, like Photoshop? Oct 19 08:22:49 johnx - I think, strangely, we have some commercial supporters here Oct 19 08:22:55 Myrtti: Yes, we are all on acid Oct 19 08:23:10 Permanently. Anything wrong with that? =) Oct 19 08:23:13 TermanaN900, I'm a pragmatist Oct 19 08:23:16 RobbieThe1st: software of any kind Oct 19 08:23:18 Termana: Which one? Oct 19 08:23:37 meh, my acid is 01 + coffeine Oct 19 08:23:49 In fact, some of us produce it internally, as part of metabolism Oct 19 08:23:57 RST38h, I asked weather you have a preference for the bsd license model vs the gpl one Oct 19 08:24:08 Termana: Ah... I prefer BSD Oct 19 08:24:18 and a permanent damage from watching Mr Spok at the age of 7 Oct 19 08:24:27 Termana: If you are making your software free, make it free Oct 19 08:25:18 what I find most interesting is the cultures that grow up around different OSes and how much momentum they have Oct 19 08:25:27 Yea, that's for sure. Oct 19 08:26:23 BeOS had a very pleasant userbase, with kind of a cultural mix of MacOS and Linux users Oct 19 08:26:55 RST38h, shouldn't you be flowering with the android people and their apache licensed OS. Or are you sitting with us GPL folk because BSD land hasn't produced anything for mobile devices like the n900? :p Oct 19 08:26:55 ...and died Oct 19 08:27:03 I used to like the RISC OS community Oct 19 08:27:23 Heh Oct 19 08:27:26 Termana: I do not choose people I talk to by the software license they like Oct 19 08:27:44 RST38h, true. selling a secondary OS is a good way to kill your company (other examples include a dozen commercial linux vendors) Oct 19 08:27:52 Termana: Or by the OS they run, for that matter Oct 19 08:28:08 johnx: Linux is special, as you cannot effectively sell Linux Oct 19 08:28:14 RST38h loves us for our excellent taste in music. Oct 19 08:28:33 RST38h, hmm, BeOS and commercial Linux distros had a lot in common I think Oct 19 08:28:38 johnx: But BeOS was a good attempt, they even produced hardware at first, offering it to Amiga users Oct 19 08:28:40 RST38h, that's not exactly what i meant Oct 19 08:28:55 johnx: BeOS was closed source though Oct 19 08:29:00 RST38h, I *dearly* wanted a BeBox Oct 19 08:29:05 johnx: And initially targeted to their own hardware Oct 19 08:29:22 but that's a hard market Oct 19 08:29:27 * RST38h has been past platform preference at the time BeBox appeared Oct 19 08:29:29 even apple nearly died at more than one point Oct 19 08:29:35 RST38h, i just meant, shouldn't you be supporting something more with that license style over Maemo/MeeGo which is using GPL platforms Oct 19 08:29:45 johnx: Their hardware died, they are Intel now Oct 19 08:30:08 Termana: I am not supporting anything Oct 19 08:30:12 RST38h, but their profits didn't. anyways, their previous hardware was just motorola or ibm Oct 19 08:30:17 Termana: Except for myself and my family Oct 19 08:30:31 heh Oct 19 08:30:45 johnx: Motorola made PowerPC Oct 19 08:30:54 johnx: Not IBM made, afaik Oct 19 08:31:09 RST38h, IBM produced it for a while though, IIRC Oct 19 08:31:10 johnx: Actually, this is not entirely correct about the profits Oct 19 08:31:27 apple isn't profitable? do tell :> Oct 19 08:31:32 johnx: PowerPC is a continuation of IBM's Power5 arch (used in PC RT afaik) Oct 19 08:31:33 RST38h, seriously though, if BSD was available on a hackable mobile device, i would use it :p Oct 19 08:31:44 johnx: IBM and Motorola had joint rights to PowerPC arch Oct 19 08:32:08 johnx: But, back to Apple's profits Oct 19 08:32:38 johnx: They went up when Steve Jobs came back to the company. Apple continued making PowerPC hardware for a while after that, actually making profit Oct 19 08:33:05 johnx: So, there wasn't direct correlation between architecture change and profits in that case, at least as far as I know Oct 19 08:33:06 is there some tool for managing wireless networks (keys and such) Oct 19 08:33:17 like 'network-manager' Oct 19 08:34:25 RST38h, I'd to see the graph of profits compared to their architecture switch. I bet the intel switch correlates nicely with a decrease in R&D and a rise in marketshare at the same time Oct 19 08:34:38 s/I'd to see/I'd love to see Oct 19 08:34:41 hooray for BSD with messybox :-P Oct 19 08:35:06 johnx: A moment, let us ask google :) Oct 19 08:36:55 johnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.#Financial_history Oct 19 08:37:17 RST38h, nice. I found this, let's see if they line up: http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/charts_graphs.html Oct 19 08:38:00 you can either say that it took time to turn things around, or that switching to intel was a great move Oct 19 08:38:08 johnx: the same wiki page has products timeline at the bottom Oct 19 08:38:38 johnx: it shows that Apple's profits skyrocketed a year before Intel switch (2005 vs 2006) Oct 19 08:38:40 then in recent years, the iphone shows up and that muddies the waters Oct 19 08:39:26 johnx: Funny thing is, 2005 timeline does not show anything special, so it must be the iPod popularty epxloding Oct 19 08:39:48 or marketing Oct 19 08:39:53 Same shit Oct 19 08:39:57 heh Oct 19 08:40:20 so the lesson is: don't sell software at all. sell locked down cell phones Oct 19 08:40:30 The iPod was, in fact, what saved Apple. Oct 19 08:40:33 Sell the image Oct 19 08:40:45 Image is everything :) Oct 19 08:40:52 Specifically, the iTunes store. Oct 19 08:40:54 RST38h, sell pictures of cell phones? nah. had to get a new ebay account after that ... Oct 19 08:40:58 derf: Seems so, based on the data Oct 19 08:41:25 At least, that's how I remember it. Oct 19 08:42:06 johnx: No, I mean the actual shape/shininess of an item :) Oct 19 08:42:54 RST38h, forgot the sarcasm tags :P Oct 19 08:45:03 remember when sony was doing that whole 'memory stick' thing and trying to convince people to buy all sony stuff so it would all magically work so well together Oct 19 08:45:42 hey hey Oct 19 08:45:47 morn dneary Oct 19 08:45:49 hallo dneary Oct 19 08:46:10 johnx: Sony had the image part done right, but they failed on interoperability :) Oct 19 08:46:12 got some sweet glue gun action going last night Oct 19 08:46:27 johnx: Probably hoped for the 3.5" floppy disk miracle to happen again, it did not Oct 19 08:46:29 The problem with the glue guns I got is they have US plugs Oct 19 08:46:31 remember how that was in like 2002 or so, when apple was still recovering, and apple just basically took their playbook and ran the same thing 5 years later except did it right? I find that whole situation hilarious Oct 19 08:46:47 So I'll need people to bring adaptors for Saturday evening's festivities... Oct 19 08:47:03 Apple did its own thing, not Sony's Oct 19 08:47:16 Quick question: whats's the locale code for english / USA on the N900? Like, which directory in /opt/maemo/usr/share/locale Oct 19 08:47:25 In fact, Jobs has done the same thing he did with Apple before 1985 and at NeXT Oct 19 08:47:34 RST38h, but sony were kinda trying. they just couldn't get the different parts of their company to actually make things that interoperated Oct 19 08:47:36 RobbieThe1st, en-US Oct 19 08:47:40 Robbie: en-US? Oct 19 08:47:41 Sorry - en_US Oct 19 08:47:50 Not seeing it... Oct 19 08:47:58 RobbieThe1st, But all too often, it's left to C Oct 19 08:48:05 On the N900? Oct 19 08:48:22 johnx: Too big, too many lawyers, huge media division inside the ocmpany, ready to eat the consumer electronics division alive for producing mp3 players Oct 19 08:48:51 mmmmm big companies Oct 19 08:48:54 johnx: Hence all the funny restrictions and quirks (AAC, non standard media, DRM, etc) Oct 19 08:48:58 left hand doesnt know what right hand is doing Oct 19 08:49:02 /usr/share/locale has en_US Oct 19 08:49:10 and middle hand just slaps them all around for shits and giggles Oct 19 08:49:10 :) Oct 19 08:49:14 RST38h, uhm, that last line just described apple ... Oct 19 08:49:23 so, anyone know a network-manager type app? Oct 19 08:49:28 So /opt/maemo/usr/share/local is just extras then? Oct 19 08:49:30 RST38h: hey - they all agreed that memorystick was an awesome bit of technology :) Oct 19 08:49:35 dreamer, for N900? Oct 19 08:49:36 johnx: sony had way more Oct 19 08:49:50 or how can I delete the saved user/pw for a wireless network? Oct 19 08:49:52 johnx: uhuh Oct 19 08:49:52 RST38h, more stick, less carrot :) Oct 19 08:50:00 raster: It was, compared to CF. If only they'd made it open. Oct 19 08:50:03 dreamer, what's wrong with the normal network setup stuff? Oct 19 08:50:13 raster: should have just found the right use for it by inserting it anally. Oct 19 08:50:15 Memory stick came before mmc, or am I confused. Oct 19 08:50:18 johnx: I can't edit user/pw Oct 19 08:50:34 for default-connections for instance Oct 19 08:50:49 SpeedEvil, The first one I saw was CF Oct 19 08:50:50 they dont knwo when to give up on ms Oct 19 08:50:59 dneary' after CF Oct 19 08:51:00 But didn't they all arrive more or less at the same time? Oct 19 08:51:00 mmc/sd has long since beaten its pants off Oct 19 08:51:00 dreamer, settings -> internet connections -> connections Oct 19 08:51:02 (first time I logged on here at the uni I used the wrong username, now it's permanently stored as faulty and I can't autoconnect) Oct 19 08:51:03 or am I confused Oct 19 08:51:05 dneary: no Oct 19 08:51:16 * dneary is no history professor Oct 19 08:51:16 johnx: let me check Oct 19 08:51:20 dneary: mmc weas before ms afaik Oct 19 08:51:41 CF was awesome and anyone who says otherwise is just wrong Oct 19 08:51:56 CF was awesome, but had some issues. Oct 19 08:52:04 The connector was hellafragile. Oct 19 08:52:09 johnx: ok, check .. sometimes things don't seem straightforward hehe Oct 19 08:52:10 at least cf has big storage and was cheap Oct 19 08:52:16 dreamer, no worries :) Oct 19 08:52:24 raster, and it still has the biggest storage :) Oct 19 08:52:26 enjoy: http://news.techdna.co.uk/2010/01/memory-cards-uncovered/ Oct 19 08:52:29 or is at least tied Oct 19 08:52:31 and u could easily get other cf devices Oct 19 08:52:36 johnx: hmmm, no Oct 19 08:52:39 like wifi etc. Oct 19 08:52:43 johnx: can only edit the network-name Oct 19 08:52:51 its also much harder to lose cf cards Oct 19 08:52:54 raster: you get some SDIO cards. Oct 19 08:52:57 dreamer, hit next Oct 19 08:52:59 man i have lost a few sd cards before Oct 19 08:53:05 and micro-sd's just go magically missing all the time Oct 19 08:53:12 SpeedEvil: i know- but much later Oct 19 08:53:20 johnx: gah, sorry, not awake yet -_- Oct 19 08:53:24 True. Oct 19 08:53:25 raster: you are not supposed to remove them :) Oct 19 08:53:28 dreamer, it's a *really* weird interface :) Oct 19 08:54:01 RST38h: say that when u have 2 dozen gadgets all of which take them in some form Oct 19 08:54:05 and u are swizzlingthem about Oct 19 08:54:08 with different os images Oct 19 08:54:10 ahaha. there's a CF-to-SDXC adapter. awesome Oct 19 08:54:15 in differing states of repair Oct 19 08:54:16 :) Oct 19 08:54:34 so CF is good up to 2TB I guess :) Oct 19 08:55:05 raster: Get one for each gadget! Oct 19 08:55:27 RST38h: i often have more than 1 per gadget Oct 19 08:55:31 thus the problem Oct 19 08:55:54 * RST38h uses this occassion to glare at Stskeeps and wonder if Meego will ever boot without having you to swap the memory card Oct 19 08:56:08 raster: The throw some away! Oct 19 08:57:02 Meanwhile: Lone Android dev 'almost brought down T-Mobile' Oct 19 08:57:35 RST38h: losing them did that for me :) Oct 19 08:58:38 raster: Nature took its course at the end! Oct 19 08:59:47 * raster mourns his lost micro-sd cards Oct 19 09:01:21 hehe Oct 19 09:01:29 it's easy to lose one Oct 19 09:01:41 try losing a 1gb hd from the 80s Oct 19 09:01:41 I almost did, when one of my N97 minis got stolen Oct 19 09:01:57 well, not mine :) they were on loan Oct 19 09:02:07 but still- I was lucky to take the sd out Oct 19 09:02:30 * jpinx-eeepc is looking for a good make 16GB micro for the n900 Oct 19 09:06:52 And this is why I don't deal with tech support: http://www.xkcd.com/806/ That's what you guys are for! :P Oct 19 09:08:04 raster: At least, you did not have to watch them suffer and search for a place to bury their corpses Oct 19 09:08:23 raster: In other words, they died free! =) Oct 19 09:08:37 RobbieThe1st: Just do this. http://xkcd.com/627/ Oct 19 09:08:59 [Myrtti: please insert another acid remark here =)] Oct 19 09:09:30 That's what I do first, though it doesn't work quite like that on Linux-based systems. (Believe me, at first, I got -so- frustrated... <_<) Oct 19 09:10:55 Generally, its a matter of Google first, look for buttons/commands later. Then, read the man page(provided it -HAS- a man page - Darn N900).. Oct 19 09:10:56 RST38h: hahahahah Oct 19 09:23:57 /me says hello Oct 19 09:25:12 I've checked the kernel power wiki and there is no mention of btrfs. Has anyone used it with maemo? Oct 19 09:33:19 Anyone here use BT OpenZone? Oct 19 09:36:48 /me would like to know why autodisconnect disconnects while irc is on... Oct 19 09:37:25 is it healthy to "rm /etc/init.d/rcS"? Oct 19 09:37:51 I'm not able to execute qmake under debian ia32 inside the scratchbox 2, anyone with the same problem? Oct 19 09:37:58 lol!.. i accidentally did that Oct 19 09:38:30 How can you acidentally do that, lol? :) ) Oct 19 09:38:45 where testing something Oct 19 09:39:18 got a backup so.. ssh it back :) Oct 19 09:39:22 So, anyone uses btrfs with maemo? Oct 19 09:43:27 does btrfs work on 2.6.28? Oct 19 09:43:53 That's a good point :-? Oct 19 09:44:12 i think you need a later kernel for that Oct 19 09:44:30 like 2.6.35 or something Oct 19 09:45:05 i am no pro at this so someone more knowledgable should answer Oct 19 09:45:11 I'll have to check when i get back in the office, but it got mainline sometime arround .33 methinks Oct 19 09:45:21 ok Oct 19 09:45:39 I never thought about kernel version, thanks for that Oct 19 09:45:50 no problems Oct 19 09:45:54 I'll probably use it in meego :) ) Oct 19 09:46:07 but i am not sure.. so look it up Oct 19 09:46:17 Will do :P Oct 19 09:46:33 :) Oct 19 10:02:12 Btrfs made it into the kernel in 2.6.29 :( Oct 19 10:02:22 So no joy... Oct 19 10:02:24 ohh.. Oct 19 10:02:30 close Oct 19 10:02:55 but i think it is still little unstable Oct 19 10:02:57 And i would probably need something more recent with all the changes... Oct 19 10:03:26 It's awesome though methinks Oct 19 10:04:21 yeah.. it's the future Oct 19 10:04:36 so it should work on Meego Oct 19 10:05:06 it still in testing on Ubuntu which is the dist i use Oct 19 10:05:15 It's default if i remember correctly, i read that somewhere Oct 19 10:05:24 it's on 2.6.35 now Oct 19 10:05:40 huh? Oct 19 10:05:56 Yeah, ubuntu doesn't use it, i was referring to maemo Oct 19 10:06:00 Meego Oct 19 10:06:04 i wanted to try it on an 10.10 alpha Oct 19 10:06:18 It was a no go.. not fully Oct 19 10:06:27 ahhh Oct 19 10:06:29 hahahaha Oct 19 10:06:39 ok Oct 19 10:06:55 I'm going to try it on my ubuntu if it works Oct 19 10:07:02 it will Oct 19 10:07:09 It should Oct 19 10:07:24 but you need to have a boot partition on ext3 Oct 19 10:07:45 You need the dvd to install it with the alphas Oct 19 10:07:48 did it for my brothers install Oct 19 10:08:27 I see, didn't know about the need for ext3. Ext4 should also work. Oct 19 10:08:40 i just used a normal livecd.. alpha2 i think Oct 19 10:08:58 maybe.. don't remember Oct 19 10:09:22 I just upgraded through testing alpha1-final, no real issues Oct 19 10:09:39 cool ;) Oct 19 10:10:19 Looking forward to the next alpha for 11.4 Oct 19 10:10:31 yeah.. me too Oct 19 10:10:49 love the 6 month release cycle Oct 19 10:11:04 Yeah, it's appropriate Oct 19 10:11:40 DEBIAN FTFW Oct 19 10:11:51 I also have a debian sid which stopped working abou 6 months ago, should chroot and upgrade Oct 19 10:12:01 heh Oct 19 10:12:10 sid is dangerous Oct 19 10:12:30 i don't remember if it was grub2 or plymouth didn't do btrfs Oct 19 10:12:57 * kerio still uses ext3 Oct 19 10:13:01 :< Oct 19 10:13:03 Games worked better than on ubuntu with my intel onboard Oct 19 10:13:07 hehe :) Oct 19 10:13:36 I use ext4 for home Oct 19 10:13:43 saw that drirectx11 might come to wine soon Oct 19 10:14:30 That would be something Oct 19 10:15:23 especially for those folks who dualboot Oct 19 10:15:55 i am not gaming so much nowadays.. so i am cool with whatever :) Oct 19 10:15:57 Why dualboot if u have dx11? Why dualboot at all lol? Oct 19 10:16:04 yep Oct 19 10:16:39 so it could make some go all the way :) Oct 19 10:16:44 Yeah, i don' either Oct 19 10:16:50 :) Oct 19 10:18:39 Yes, linux needs the desktop, maybe it can get it after it (already) rules mobile :) Oct 19 10:20:03 hehe yeah Oct 19 10:20:28 the problem is the windows power users Oct 19 10:20:57 i got both my brother and father to change Oct 19 10:21:04 it is working great... Oct 19 10:21:04 There is no such thing :) )) Oct 19 10:21:13 lol! Oct 19 10:22:08 would like to have some reliable data on how many are using Linux Oct 19 10:22:24 i am sure it is more than 1% Oct 19 10:22:36 Ubuntu had like 30 mil downloads, but that is not reliable Oct 19 10:22:52 yeah Oct 19 10:23:03 We should make a campaign to install smth that phones home Oct 19 10:23:13 Then we could know Oct 19 10:24:04 yeah... but then you would need to install it manually.. so it would depend on how may who does that :/ Oct 19 10:24:41 i just know... before i was pretty lonely using linux. Oct 19 10:24:57 now i even have a couple in my work doing it Oct 19 10:25:21 You can implement it during update as an option. Or at install. Oct 19 10:26:10 hmm.. maybe there is a way to se how many using updates? Oct 19 10:26:24 that would maybe be more reliable Oct 19 10:26:50 VladNistor-mob: They already have that option as part of the ubuntu install, IIRC Oct 19 10:27:29 they removed it in the 10.10 install.. and it was for packages Oct 19 10:27:46 or did you mean something else? Oct 19 10:28:16 I dunno, i would have heard if they did phone home Oct 19 10:31:53 * VladNistor is here now Oct 19 10:34:14 Problem is, Linux users get really upset about phone-home anything Oct 19 10:35:12 yup, some do. I wouldn't mind as long as my personal info was kept back Oct 19 10:35:34 dpatch is now available in #extras-devel Oct 19 10:35:44 but most ppl do updates.. which is little the same thing Oct 19 10:38:27 Almehdi, the easy way to know is to log the apt-get update request made automatically on the ubuntu server Oct 19 10:38:49 even if users didn't made update ... aptitude often update automatically his database Oct 19 10:38:55 filter this by ip Oct 19 10:39:18 it will exclude of course all users behind proxy Oct 19 10:39:23 but it ll be good start Oct 19 10:39:47 yeah.. something like that Oct 19 10:39:58 What about NAT &ip-pools? Oct 19 10:40:13 well..let's hope they do somthing like that ;) Oct 19 11:03:21 Khertan: ping? Oct 19 11:03:54 ong Oct 19 11:04:06 (a truncated pong) Oct 19 11:04:12 X-Fade, Hi ! Oct 19 11:04:14 Khertan: You're messing with sdk packages. Oct 19 11:04:21 Khertan: You should not do that ;) Oct 19 11:05:09 X-Fade, oh ? Oct 19 11:05:18 Khertan: dpatch is in sdk. Oct 19 11:05:21 arg Oct 19 11:05:23 sorry Oct 19 11:05:41 i didn't see it in the sdk Oct 19 11:05:52 could you remove it ? Oct 19 11:05:58 I'll wipe it. Oct 19 11:06:04 oh thanks Oct 19 11:06:15 i ll try to see why my scripts didn't see it Oct 19 11:07:23 (and my build seems to not works : /usr/bin/dpatch: line 8: set: pipefail: invalid option name) Oct 19 11:08:53 Khertan: Squeeze devkit? Oct 19 11:09:40 Khertan: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/d/dpatch/dpatch_2.0.21_all.deb Oct 19 11:10:31 oh i got some errors during the download Oct 19 11:10:47 so this explain the fact that dpatch wasn't found by my script Oct 19 11:11:37 thx Oct 19 11:21:35 RobbieThe1st: still here? Oct 19 11:21:42 Now I am Oct 19 11:21:53 But not for long Oct 19 11:21:54 why? Oct 19 11:22:33 did you only need to run kernel-config or do you want to change in its file? Oct 19 11:37:42 I just flashed my N900. (FIASCO and eMMC) because I had errors with my /dev/mmcblk0p2 Oct 19 11:37:49 After the full flash the error is still there Oct 19 11:38:48 warranty Oct 19 11:38:50 "EXT3-fs error (devince mmcblk0p2): ext3_journal_start_sb: Detected abort journal" Oct 19 11:39:10 it's time to use your warranty Oct 19 11:39:18 eMMC seems to be failing quite often Oct 19 11:40:20 I can't really do anything no either since I obviously can't install rootsh. Well, I guess warranty is indeed the last thing I can do Oct 19 11:50:07 It's so silly. I've been wanting to do fsck for awhile now, but never could since it wasn't read-only. Now it's read only but I don't have root Oct 19 11:55:01 * Noobmonk3y W0000TS Oct 19 11:55:13 * frals trouts Noobmonk3y Oct 19 11:55:54 W000P W000P! and i'll turn caps of now lol Oct 19 11:56:15 just finally figured out autorotate in qtcreator! yay - healthcheck is on it's way! Oct 19 11:56:24 Noobmonk3y: :O Oct 19 11:57:01 ignoring the fact i need to learn QT/C++ and do it all again, the fact i can now design it, and it autorotates - is a good start, oh and it works on my device lol Oct 19 11:57:07 Noobmonk3y: you dont coincidentally have a few minutes time (later)? :D Oct 19 11:57:18 will do this evening :0 - on my lunch break atm Oct 19 11:57:26 will have 3/4 hours free this evening :) Oct 19 11:57:28 no i need some instructions Oct 19 11:57:32 i guess im too stupid Oct 19 11:57:35 lol instructions? Oct 19 11:57:40 also i need someone who uses qt creator on a mac Oct 19 11:57:50 because the simulator thingy does not seem to work :S Oct 19 11:57:51 ahhhh not me :( - doing it on windows 7 Oct 19 11:57:56 and i dont use the simulator lol Oct 19 11:58:01 :S ok Oct 19 11:58:08 happy enough the build and run on device works :P Oct 19 11:58:15 :D Oct 19 11:58:28 not the easiest thing to set up - and i haven't even got to the packaging for maemo part yet lol Oct 19 11:58:48 oh well, will hit that bridge when i come to it, V happy qtcreator works, and well'ish though! Oct 19 11:59:32 :D Oct 19 11:59:39 oh Oct 19 11:59:41 packaing Oct 19 11:59:51 i only distribute the binary and a .desktop file Oct 19 11:59:52 :D Oct 19 11:59:57 hehe i'm used to the python way, so this ones gonna take a little while :P Oct 19 12:00:05 <3 python Oct 19 12:00:11 * lcuk frals a trout harshly using only Noobmonk3y as support Oct 19 12:00:12 i blame frals and his enourmous........... trout collection Oct 19 12:00:42 lcuk, if i send you a deb file (if i can find it) will it just load up n work? Oct 19 12:01:03 interested to know what ya think of the possible new design :) Oct 19 12:01:27 actually qtcreator allows me to easily use git now, so may do that tonight Oct 19 12:01:36 Noobmonk3y, if you just send me an unsolicited deb I will delete it :P Oct 19 12:01:40 lol lcuk ;) Oct 19 12:01:46 the trust in maemo has gone :p lol Oct 19 12:02:14 MohammadAG51: is always up for ruining his n900 ;) Oct 19 12:02:16 indeed, now if you point towards a git repo I am sure people will look (and some may like to try the deb too) Oct 19 12:02:37 its not the trust Noobmonk3y - its reproducability Oct 19 12:02:43 haha good point :p Oct 19 12:02:49 random debs for cool programs are one thing Oct 19 12:02:54 anyway tis literally just a menu that auto rotates atm :) Oct 19 12:04:01 then show 2 screenshots :D Oct 19 12:04:10 * lcuk will fill in the blanks Oct 19 12:04:22 for the record di.fm vocal trance is awesome music while working Oct 19 12:04:35 lol frals ;) Oct 19 12:04:39 grishnav, agreed! Oct 19 12:04:42 dont tell me they actually got you working over there! Oct 19 12:04:44 frals even Oct 19 12:05:35 Noobmonk3y: them bastards keep giving me fun stuff to do :( Oct 19 12:05:43 awwwwwwwwwww tough life ;) Oct 19 12:05:48 Noobmonk3y: worst nightmare eh, enjoing work? ;) Oct 19 12:05:57 now all i need is a job like that ;) Oct 19 12:18:15 right, back to work, ciao alls Oct 19 12:40:23 Hi! How can I run the built-in image viewer from the command line? Oct 19 12:43:30 I think there is a dbus invocation, burt do not recall it. Oct 19 12:43:51 Hmm Oct 19 12:45:08 Does anybody have it? Oct 19 12:46:15 gpe-filemanager opens images in the default image-viewer Oct 19 12:46:24 i'm assuming it's a dbus command Oct 19 12:46:45 I'll check. Oct 19 12:47:43 frals: I'd like to be able to send MMS to multiple recipients at once. Sending one by one to ten people is pretty frustrating Oct 19 12:57:51 Does anybody know the actual command to view files using the built-in image viewer? Oct 19 12:58:13 What alternative image viewers, to be run from the command line, would one suggest? Oct 19 13:01:02 ebzzry: builtin imageviewer can be launched via dbus, fmms is using that iirc :p Oct 19 13:05:49 meh! calendar alarm going off while screen locked. Click "dismiss" or whatever it's called (stop?). Screen reverts to blanked, but touchscreen clicks are not disabled... BUG! Oct 19 13:06:04 ciao Oct 19 13:07:48 frals: Do you know the command on how to invoke it? Oct 19 13:08:39 ret = rpc.rpc_run("com.nokia.image_viewer", "/com/nokia/image_viewer", "com.nokia.image_viewer", "mime_open", (str, path)) Oct 19 13:09:00 read fmms_viewer.py :P Oct 19 13:10:14 OK :) Oct 19 13:11:56 roh they did it again with pr1.3 a leaked firmware ... hope no users will install it Oct 19 13:12:11 already did Oct 19 13:12:13 leaked where? Oct 19 13:12:38 DocScrutinizer: alarm goes off, audio player is muted, but not paused. Oct 19 13:12:39 frals, interwebz Oct 19 13:15:25 i see it on a private forum Oct 19 13:15:35 so if it s on it s available somewhere on the net :) Oct 19 13:16:05 good ol' Khertan Oct 19 13:16:07 read channel logs for yesterday, meh Oct 19 13:17:17 but as i didn't try it or download it could be a fake :) Oct 19 13:19:27 * MohammadAG51 checked that it wasn't by unpacking the image Oct 19 13:19:43 and it's not anything new Oct 19 13:19:48 the kernel is from august Oct 19 13:20:29 ouch ... the logs look like there was yesterday on the chan a pokemon battle ! Oct 19 13:21:14 MohammadAG51: Did you succeede to get mouse to 10.10? Oct 19 13:21:15 from what i see on t.m.o there is no link , and no help to download or install it Oct 19 13:21:19 it s a good thing Oct 19 13:21:43 Almehdi, haven't tried, lost all configs since i reflashed Oct 19 13:21:55 ouch! Oct 19 13:21:57 is PR 1.2 release already available? Oct 19 13:22:04 lol Oct 19 13:22:07 infobot, pr1.2 Oct 19 13:22:07 somebody said pr1.2 was available since early Tuesday morning. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ -- see ~flashing for how to update Oct 19 13:22:09 :) Oct 19 13:22:12 * DocScrutinizer51 is pondering an autokicker with trigger regex 'pr*1*3' Oct 19 13:22:19 i vote : +1 Oct 19 13:22:21 *for n900 Oct 19 13:22:43 * MohammadAG51 calls leaked image pr1.2.5 Oct 19 13:23:27 hum ... 1.2.5 should be reserved to you : an pr1.2 image with your packaged new version of hildondesktop, pulseaudio, and modest Oct 19 13:23:27 :) Oct 19 13:23:50 pulseaudio isn't completely fixed in my package Oct 19 13:24:00 it seems to be fixed in this leaked image Oct 19 13:24:08 * SpeedEvil ponders fixes he'd like. Oct 19 13:24:10 fixed? Oct 19 13:24:24 SpeedEvil, eMMC? Oct 19 13:24:27 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 Oct 19 13:24:28 Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug Oct 19 13:24:28 wanted to test that Oct 19 13:24:32 That's clearly the worst bug. Oct 19 13:24:42 pupnik, no more stuttering Oct 19 13:24:50 nice Oct 19 13:25:40 that's the only thing interesting really :P Oct 19 13:26:01 SpeedEvil, would dd be a good way to test the eMMC? Oct 19 13:26:12 lol funny bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 Oct 19 13:26:13 Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug Oct 19 13:27:03 MohammadAG51: for what? Oct 19 13:27:16 MohammadAG51: The emmc is a simple block device which is error-free. Oct 19 13:27:22 interesting, i have flashed my n900 with PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1, but there's no qt there Oct 19 13:27:27 MohammadAG51: Any errors are hardware irrecoverable errors. Oct 19 13:28:32 MohammadAG51, bot says that PR1.2 is available from today morning? Oct 19 13:34:11 MohammadAG51: I ran: 'dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.image_viewer /com/nokia/image_viewer com.nokia.image_viewer.mime_open string:somefile.jpg' but I got: 'Unable to open. File format not supported.' Any hints? Oct 19 13:34:38 full path? Oct 19 13:35:10 Any idea how to enter a lowcase letter into an entry box that tries to upcase the first letter by default? Oct 19 13:35:29 The only way I've found is enter 2 letters, and delete the first one, then the second one stay lowcase, ... Oct 19 13:35:42 yacc: disable it in Text Input under Settings Oct 19 13:35:54 where is cache files for maep? Oct 19 13:38:03 MohammadAG51: Giving it a full path, does work. Thanks. Oct 19 13:38:25 :D Oct 19 13:38:27 yw Oct 19 13:38:47 sweet my desktop widget finally works :p Oct 19 13:38:48 yacc, bug in 1.2 Oct 19 13:39:11 Another question, if I have word completion, is there a way to click through different completions? Oct 19 13:39:41 It tends to choose always the wrong completion, and the one I need shows up when I've almost completely typed the word. Oct 19 13:55:01 Any idea how to get alternative word completions? Oct 19 13:57:27 hey all, quick question - i installed fmms, and it installed a 3g carrier data connection profile called 'MMS', i want to get rid of this cause my n900 automatically tries to use that for the internet and it isn't internet capable Oct 19 13:57:39 ove tried removing fmms, doesnt help Oct 19 13:57:52 tried deleting connection profile, and it wont let me Oct 19 13:57:54 settings > internet connections > connections Oct 19 13:57:57 any suggestion? Oct 19 13:58:15 lardman: thanks, but wont allow me to delete it Oct 19 13:58:17 oh, you've tried that already then Oct 19 13:58:29 dunno, sorry Oct 19 13:58:42 thanks anyway Oct 19 13:59:33 I just noticed my conky rotates :) ) Oct 19 13:59:41 http://www.movie-moron.com/wp-content/gallery/various/I-See-Stupid-People.jpg Oct 19 14:00:39 zybba: fAPN can remove it for you Oct 19 14:00:52 is that an app? Oct 19 14:01:23 guess so, downloading now Oct 19 14:01:25 Lol, pupnik Oct 19 14:01:26 thanls :) Oct 19 14:02:12 frals: thanks so much :) Oct 19 14:02:18 worked great :D Oct 19 14:02:49 worked great :D Oct 19 14:02:52 np Oct 19 14:15:30 Hey, I'm using the msn-pecan connection manager, but I've disabled it because it continually attempts to reconnect if it's punted off because another client has connected to MSN (pidgin is smart and notices this and stops reattempting). However, something is still restarting the connection manager in the background. Oct 19 14:15:48 I think I may need to use Pidgin instead of Conversations. :( Oct 19 14:16:40 I guess mission-control is to blame for restarting telepathy-pecan, but why would it be doing this if I disabled the account in Accounts? Oct 19 14:16:42 Poor Pre 2 Oct 19 14:16:55 Would've been interesting minus the useless display. Oct 19 14:22:12 okey, is there a way to make tracker rescan the dirs without removing the current database? Oct 19 14:22:22 and yes, i agree the tracker and stuff sucks big Oct 19 14:31:09 ouch trying to build new git package is a pain Oct 19 14:31:16 there is so many depandancies ! Oct 19 14:31:19 libdbd-sqlite3-perl Oct 19 14:31:27 ...Sculley talks openly about Jobs and Apple, admits it was a mistake to hire him to run the company and that he knows little about computers... Oct 19 14:32:32 heh Oct 19 14:33:45 http://www.cultofmac.com/john-sculley-on-steve-jobs-the-full-interview-transcript/63295?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+cultofmac/bFow+%28Cult+of+Mac%29 Oct 19 14:33:51 Kinda fascinating really Oct 19 14:38:15 Hi Oct 19 14:38:28 Anyone here every implemented a custom URI handler? Oct 19 14:39:23 dneary, hrm, not sure but I think xchat adds irc: support (I know it does on different platforms) Oct 19 14:39:39 and afaik doesn't transmission add support for torrents Oct 19 14:39:53 dneary, where? N900? Oct 19 14:42:36 I want to know which OS versions are covered by the different revisions, and it's not clear from the source Oct 19 14:42:43 peb_, Yup Oct 19 14:43:07 lcuk, I'm looking to tidy up http://wiki.maemo.org/URL_Handler Oct 19 14:45:17 X-Fade, does there is a reason for garage maemo extra assistant to not see debian.tar.gz in this changes file http://pastebin.com/k37n1jmU as i didn't let me upload it :) Oct 19 14:46:19 Khertan: Not supported. Oct 19 14:46:25 ? Oct 19 14:46:36 Khertan: debian.tar.gz should be diff.tar.gz Oct 19 14:47:26 this is just due to the "debian" term in the name ? Oct 19 14:47:39 as it s works with other package i ve upload :) Oct 19 14:47:47 (without debian in there name) Oct 19 14:48:45 hum ... this is generated by dpkg ... Oct 19 14:49:52 hum ... when i see the debian/rules its typically in the perl style : http://pastebin.com/dcvecL2t Oct 19 15:06:37 yeah Oct 19 15:07:09 DocScrutinizer you're available? ;) Oct 19 15:14:00 grrrr Oct 19 15:14:13 'people used to call Apple “a vertically-integrated advertising agency,” ' - Scully Oct 19 15:14:39 i was trying to package a new version of git ... but it s seems this 1.7 branch depends on many perl things which aren't available on maemo Oct 19 15:15:09 * Khertan didn't wan't to package entirely perl ! Oct 19 15:16:06 Crowdsourcing: Anyone have an idea what I could get my gf for her bday? Oct 19 15:17:46 okay, a brand new n900 but no access to wlan networks? Oct 19 15:18:08 for bday? Oct 19 15:18:52 DocScrutinizer51, birthday Oct 19 15:19:01 intelinsider: or was that a real question? Oct 19 15:19:52 birthday? Oct 19 15:20:01 no i had no idea why i can't access my wlan Oct 19 15:20:38 btw handover 3G->2G works flawlessly here (germany O2) now Oct 19 15:20:50 "now?" Oct 19 15:21:13 seems there've been oissues 1..2 y ago Oct 19 15:21:15 t-mobile germany Oct 19 15:22:41 Khertan, but what do you need from newest git thats missing from existing Oct 19 15:22:45 at the moment without radio Oct 19 15:23:43 intelinsider: are you the 3rd in 4 days, or have you reported before? Oct 19 15:24:01 ? Oct 19 15:24:38 intelinsider: works fine here Oct 19 15:24:41 also tmobile Oct 19 15:24:47 but i rarely use 3G Oct 19 15:25:04 lcuk: git clone didn't work Oct 19 15:25:22 Khertan, to which kind of server? Oct 19 15:25:34 lcuk, every Oct 19 15:25:36 hmm Oct 19 15:25:44 command doesn't seems to be packaged Oct 19 15:25:52 no my n900 delivered today and now the wifi will not work :D Oct 19 15:25:58 and afaik, its not gits problem entirely, its the fact that git was built without https support or something Oct 19 15:26:09 a damage? Oct 19 15:26:09 intelinsider: do you see any wifis? Oct 19 15:26:12 i used the maemo4 and maemo5 packaged versions of git happily Oct 19 15:26:13 no Oct 19 15:26:17 Crowdsourcing: Anyone have an idea what I could get my gf for her bday? Oct 19 15:26:27 and you see wifis with another device? Oct 19 15:26:27 but here is only my own wifi Oct 19 15:26:28 would be a good idea to suggest what she likes Oct 19 15:26:30 hm Oct 19 15:26:33 channel 13? Oct 19 15:26:41 summel: yes my Notebook works Oct 19 15:26:41 git doesn't work properly in scratchbox Oct 19 15:26:52 and it s still good to use newer version Oct 19 15:26:52 at least with https links Oct 19 15:27:03 * MohammadAG needs help with Qt Oct 19 15:27:04 summel: yes channel 13 Oct 19 15:27:06 try setting your wifi to channel 9 or something to be sure :D Oct 19 15:27:16 how do I display 5 images with kinetic scrolling between them? Oct 19 15:27:17 iirc the n900 had problems with channel 13 wifis Oct 19 15:27:28 but its not as bad as meego Oct 19 15:27:38 which doesnt even support wpa2 networks :S Oct 19 15:27:42 MohammadAG, To be honest, I have no fucking clue Oct 19 15:27:45 LOL Oct 19 15:27:48 Sweet; if i have my #maemo chat open in conversations and connect the account it shows all 487 people joining one by one... And all the chat for the 2 minutes it takes afterwards.... Oct 19 15:27:54 crashanddie, you have nfc about your gf? xD Oct 19 15:27:55 i use WPA2-PSK/TKIP+AES :| Oct 19 15:28:02 intelinsider: this works on maemo Oct 19 15:28:07 MohammadAG, not for a gift, no Oct 19 15:28:08 but i think channel 13 is the problem Oct 19 15:28:16 crashanddie, hmm Oct 19 15:28:18 MohammadAG, I've given her plenty of crap already, I'm out of ideas Oct 19 15:28:23 crashanddie, what does she like in general? Oct 19 15:28:35 * MohammadAG suggests a car, if you're feeling rich :P Oct 19 15:28:43 crashanddie: a bunny Oct 19 15:28:47 crashanddie: wellness spa Oct 19 15:28:47 or better 2 bunnies Oct 19 15:28:49 and 2 cups Oct 19 15:28:55 books, boots, fluffy things (not living) and things that go BOP in the night. Oct 19 15:29:03 summel, RWJ too much? Oct 19 15:29:27 MohammadAG: RWJ? Oct 19 15:29:40 crashanddie: 2 dead bunnies in a cup? :O Oct 19 15:29:52 summel, do you really want to get banned before I leave work? Oct 19 15:29:59 summel, nvm (raywilliamjohnson) Oct 19 15:30:10 crashanddie: you wanted something fluffy (not living) :S Oct 19 15:30:19 ah okay summel thanks Oct 19 15:30:30 crashanddie: what about an ipad? :D Oct 19 15:30:32 I'm out of ideas then Oct 19 15:30:35 i switched the wlan channel on 2 Oct 19 15:30:37 although thats not fluffy Oct 19 15:30:37 crashanddie: wellness spa Oct 19 15:30:39 now i see my network Oct 19 15:30:43 summel, thought about that, she sucks at using computers though Oct 19 15:30:46 intelinsider: yay please write a bug report Oct 19 15:30:47 :D Oct 19 15:30:53 summel, so it would be more for me than anything else Oct 19 15:30:56 actually, that's double win Oct 19 15:30:56 crashanddie: then the ipad is perfect :D Oct 19 15:31:02 crashanddie, tbh, the iPad would be good Oct 19 15:31:05 no offense Oct 19 15:31:16 hmm Oct 19 15:31:16 I've seen kids use it Oct 19 15:31:24 are there a lot of free apps? Oct 19 15:31:24 ipad is perfect for people who are to... erm.... to use a computer Oct 19 15:31:25 :o Oct 19 15:31:28 yes Oct 19 15:31:28 apple does a very good job at easing the use of things Oct 19 15:31:36 crashanddie, free or "free"? Oct 19 15:31:45 and the non-free apps arent that expensive Oct 19 15:31:45 free as in no credit card required. Oct 19 15:31:51 cause the majority of iPhone/iPad users refer to apps as "free" Oct 19 15:31:56 catch my drift? Oct 19 15:32:00 yeah Oct 19 15:32:17 crashanddie: when is her birthday? Oct 19 15:32:18 hmm, I'll do what I do every time Oct 19 15:32:32 check out the toy stores, and the general stores Oct 19 15:32:35 :D Oct 19 15:32:35 find something Oct 19 15:32:37 summel: i'm new in this n900 area Oct 19 15:32:45 summel, I dunno Oct 19 15:32:55 intelinsider: https://bugs.maemo.org/ ^^ Oct 19 15:32:55 i get a few days to feel the n900 =) Oct 19 15:32:56 summel, saturday Oct 19 15:33:00 crashanddie: :O ok Oct 19 15:33:09 nha, I knew the date, not the day :P Oct 19 15:33:12 i thought more like "in 2 months" or something :D Oct 19 15:33:17 (of the week) Oct 19 15:33:27 because there probably will be a new ipad in Q1 of 2011 Oct 19 15:33:31 crashanddie, how long have you known her for? Oct 19 15:33:38 lcuk, 'bout a year Oct 19 15:33:51 well, I would've completely forgotten about her birthday were it not for the blackberry reminding me Oct 19 15:33:53 but the option to deactivate the vibriation on 'touch'... where is it? Oct 19 15:34:01 :D Oct 19 15:34:01 intelinsider, settings, display Oct 19 15:34:12 intelinsider, control panel, screen Oct 19 15:34:21 hrhr Oct 19 15:34:26 okay Oct 19 15:34:28 thanks :D Oct 19 15:34:36 actually, buckyballs would be a cool gift Oct 19 15:34:59 crashanddie, I don't forget others' birthdays, even if we're not in a relationship Oct 19 15:35:10 i do Oct 19 15:35:10 :D Oct 19 15:35:16 i cant remember such things Oct 19 15:35:21 also names Oct 19 15:35:22 :S Oct 19 15:35:27 can't forget those Oct 19 15:35:40 MohammadAG, birthdays are an artificial economic drive which serves absolutely no purpose other than making people poor Oct 19 15:35:49 * lcuk has trouble remembering his own birthday some years Oct 19 15:35:49 :D Oct 19 15:36:10 lcuk, selective memory. You don't WANT to remember your own birthday Oct 19 15:36:14 * summel hates hp Oct 19 15:36:15 :S Oct 19 15:36:42 12.5 days for a 364MB download... wtf? :S Oct 19 15:36:46 people would be as happy with a nice breakfast, or a massage and nice dinner, with a few quality-time moments, but nooooooooooooo, you need to spend MONIES Oct 19 15:36:55 i thought hp had enough money to buy a decent ftp server :O Oct 19 15:37:03 it's not the server Oct 19 15:37:05 it's the bandwidth Oct 19 15:37:14 crashanddie: idk... its both crappy :S Oct 19 15:37:23 crashanddie, iPhone 4 then? Oct 19 15:37:25 Termana, lol - or senility! Oct 19 15:37:28 it's faster than the iPad :P Oct 19 15:37:32 i have a 10Gbit connection... :( Oct 19 15:37:46 MohammadAG, nha, requires recurring payment, sucks if we break up Oct 19 15:37:57 crashanddie: you can cook a nice dinner for her? :D Oct 19 15:38:19 and frankly, how is tying her to a multinational telco company for 2 years a gift? Oct 19 15:38:45 summel, sure, but that's planned anyway Oct 19 15:38:45 crashanddie: http://lifehacker.com/search/recipe/ :D Oct 19 15:38:46 unlocked Oct 19 15:38:47 crashanddie, anyway, don't listen to any of these fools. They sit in a channel 24/7 and sob into their beer of sorrows. Oct 19 15:38:50 :O ok Oct 19 15:39:00 Termana: i dont drink beer :O Oct 19 15:39:02 crashanddie, buy her a promise ring and take her out to a fancy restaurant. Oct 19 15:39:12 Termana, she already has the ring Oct 19 15:39:12 Termana, speaking out of experience? nice :P Oct 19 15:39:21 Termana, or a purity ring :P Oct 19 15:39:25 * MohammadAG is an ass Oct 19 15:39:31 :D Oct 19 15:39:32 Termana, ouch and suffer during one year for the preparation of the wedding ! Oct 19 15:39:38 MohammadAG, heh Oct 19 15:39:39 and we did fancy restaurant last weekend Oct 19 15:39:56 crashanddie, so what's she into? Oct 19 15:39:57 crashanddie, well your suppose to wait and give her gifts on her birthday. Oct 19 15:40:02 you're* Oct 19 15:40:10 WELL I WOULD HAVE Oct 19 15:40:11 MohammadAG: leather and bdsm? :O *hide* Oct 19 15:40:18 If only the blackberry had reminded me of the birthday last week Oct 19 15:40:19 she doesn't seem to be geeky :P Oct 19 15:40:19 and not today Oct 19 15:40:37 effing blackberry, my N900 does that 3 weeks before a bday Oct 19 15:40:39 MohammadAG, totally not Oct 19 15:40:42 crashanddie, That's what you get for relying on a crackberry Oct 19 15:40:45 well Oct 19 15:40:50 crashanddie, so what's she into? Oct 19 15:40:51 honestly, I selected 5 adys Oct 19 15:40:53 days** Oct 19 15:41:08 effing blackberry, it allows to select the number of days Oct 19 15:41:15 I think the N900 has it hardcoded to 3 weeks Oct 19 15:41:26 ( intelinsider: yay please write a bug report) about what? US wlan policy enforcement not allowing chan 13? Oct 19 15:41:37 DocScrutinizer: we are in germany Oct 19 15:41:38 MohammadAG, she's studying english lit, uses her computer (that i bought) to watch the tv shows I give her, and doesn't even have internet at her place Oct 19 15:41:46 channel 13 gets used often here :S Oct 19 15:42:00 us? i'm here in germany Oct 19 15:42:02 summel, same in France, just change the router settings Oct 19 15:42:08 summel: that's rather irrelevant if CAL has REGION=US Oct 19 15:42:13 crashanddie: its not my router Oct 19 15:42:45 osso-product-info|grep -i region Oct 19 15:42:46 anyway Oct 19 15:42:50 going to hunt for something Oct 19 15:42:52 wml Oct 19 15:42:53 later Oct 19 15:43:03 i wish nokia was the company it was a few years ago :( Oct 19 15:43:08 crashanddie, you could make a booklet with coupons of things you'll do for her Oct 19 15:43:21 Cost you nothing (you tight arse) and is easy to get Oct 19 15:45:37 oh a new maemo version :) Oct 19 15:45:49 pr1.3? Oct 19 15:46:05 /kick jacekowski Oct 19 15:50:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels Oct 19 15:50:55 DocScrutinizer: yes i know.. the US dont give a damn about "Most of world" Oct 19 15:50:56 :D Oct 19 15:51:15 also: "In the USA, 802.11 operation in the channels 12 and 13 is actually allowed under low powered conditions." Oct 19 15:51:16 :O Oct 19 15:51:25 so it should support those channels... Oct 19 15:51:29 nah, you'd not want a sidewinder to blow up your house :-P Oct 19 15:52:01 low powered.... i dont think thats possible :O Oct 19 15:52:15 anyways i go home now... laters :) Oct 19 15:55:26 MohammadAG: what's up? Oct 19 15:55:44 trying to figure out how to finish this final piece of code Oct 19 15:55:49 I've hit a brick wall Oct 19 15:56:04 ouch that must have hurt Oct 19 15:56:58 final piece of code == my patches to hh-kernel as of h-e-n ML? Oct 19 15:57:08 lol Oct 19 15:57:10 no Oct 19 15:57:14 PSFreedom's help window Oct 19 15:57:38 PR1.3 breaks QTextBrowser btw Oct 19 15:57:41 if anyone's interested Oct 19 15:57:50 it sets a black background, and the text is black Oct 19 15:57:54 there is no pr1.3 Oct 19 15:58:09 k, WK36 Oct 19 16:00:42 DocScrutinizer: there is Oct 19 16:01:10 jacekowski: ooh? always thought PR means Production Release Oct 19 16:01:18 PreRelease Oct 19 16:01:33 but well Oct 19 16:01:37 lol Oct 19 16:01:39 it may be production release as well Oct 19 16:01:43 nope, that's commonly attributed as beta Oct 19 16:01:53 or Pretty Retarded Oct 19 16:02:01 so B1.3 is released Oct 19 16:02:12 leaked* Oct 19 16:02:27 define 'released' Oct 19 16:02:48 anyway Oct 19 16:02:52 ~pr1.3 Oct 19 16:02:52 STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever Oct 19 16:03:07 * DocScrutinizer curses the autokicker not working properly Oct 19 16:03:24 * Noobmonk3y curses grumpy old men... doc, go eat some sugar ;) Oct 19 16:03:36 * Noobmonk3y waves, lo alls :) Oct 19 16:03:44 * jacekowski goes home Oct 19 16:03:48 lol Oct 19 16:04:26 * Khertan just hope he will not got full of complain from user using this app and a broken firmware like when a broken pr1.2 was released Oct 19 16:04:36 s/this/his Oct 19 16:04:47 Khertan: that's why Oct 19 16:04:53 ~pr1.3 Oct 19 16:04:54 STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever Oct 19 16:05:17 lol khertan, just wait till they change autobuilder again lol Oct 19 16:06:02 http://www.carbu.fr/stationsvides.html Oct 19 16:06:05 oups sorry Oct 19 16:06:08 wrong window Oct 19 16:07:11 * VladNistor-mob can't find a way to make XChat fullscreen Oct 19 16:07:15 (for information of those which go to the link and didn't read french this his a google map with gaz station which are out of gaz stock) Oct 19 16:07:39 lol Oct 19 16:08:25 what's wrong with your gas over there? Oct 19 16:08:44 rah ... the good old french tradition ! Oct 19 16:08:53 aah, strike Oct 19 16:08:55 strike Oct 19 16:09:53 hum from what i see from the map ... some are missing as i ve try four which are also out of stock and not on the map Oct 19 16:10:34 meh, google Oct 19 16:11:07 though the URL... hmmm Oct 19 16:11:29 French are striking faster than internets Oct 19 16:11:53 Khertan: didn't you looked at the new ? There is no gaz issue in France. Oct 19 16:12:25 Khertan, from what I hear, it would be easier having a map showing the 2 or 3 stations that still have petrol Oct 19 16:12:37 instead of locking up my browser shoing hundreds of thousands without Oct 19 16:14:15 marmoute yep i heard the first minister saying that sunday when i was hand pushing car because i didn't found any gaz during my back travel on 500Km Oct 19 16:14:21 aww, once I got stuck in northern France as there were no *open* gas stations on new years eve, at 21:00 Oct 19 16:14:41 seems they don't bother too much Oct 19 16:15:07 it s amazing how french politician can lie and think that all french are dumb Oct 19 16:15:45 it wasn't funny to push the car while listenning them saying there is no problem Oct 19 16:15:52 on the autoradio Oct 19 16:15:54 they aren't thinking everybody is dumb, they just think they are the smartest Oct 19 16:16:04 the smartest dumb ? Oct 19 16:16:13 (well, in the end that's the same) Oct 19 16:17:12 3.5 million demonstrators according to union labor, according to police 50 000 ... hmm .. they are people who know how to count Oct 19 16:17:59 maybe they paid the same guy to count out of stock gaz station ? Oct 19 16:18:35 they just didn't count the "chaots" and "anarchists" as demonstrators Oct 19 16:19:10 it s still 3.5 with them ;) Oct 19 16:19:40 anyway just a question from people outside france, did you hear about strike in our country ? Oct 19 16:20:13 police: "there were 50.000 demonstrators and 3 mio anarchists" Oct 19 16:20:49 yes, it's in TV news here in D Oct 19 16:21:32 because here we have more and more problem but tv news relate than there is less and less demonstrators Oct 19 16:21:40 hell, if people here were as strike-happy as you are Oct 19 16:22:21 and from what i see with my own eye there is more and more people and less and less public transport Oct 19 16:24:19 our president have the worst percent of bad popular opignion since the creation of our republic :) Oct 19 16:25:32 tbh I couldn't bother less about rent 65->67 Oct 19 16:42:51 * Noobmonk3y waves at lcuk! Oct 19 16:43:40 * Noobmonk3y has finally got git working, and just dloaded mo's program into qt, and got it running lol! - graphical interfaces are so much easier for us noobs :) Oct 19 16:44:22 ahhh tis an html file :P Oct 19 16:44:58 o hai Oct 19 16:44:59 ltns Oct 19 16:45:00 etc Oct 19 16:45:27 anyone know if window manager did cache the launching result and store it somewhere? Oct 19 16:45:31 maemo5 Oct 19 16:45:49 so it makes it looks like the app is popping up faster. Oct 19 16:46:12 "yes." Oct 19 16:46:12 ooo MohammadAG didnt you tell me something about the window loading stuff? Oct 19 16:46:13 and the reason why i can't eliminate some appearances of removed icons from settings. Oct 19 16:46:22 can I removed it? Oct 19 16:46:31 a screenshot is shown initially until it's fully loaded Oct 19 16:46:42 maybe, if the code is open Oct 19 16:47:06 /home/user/.cache/launch Oct 19 16:47:09 yeah i managed to remove it on healthcheck code, MohammadAG told me how to do it (Something in the packaging) Oct 19 16:47:16 there ya go, the clever one speaketh Oct 19 16:47:17 rm the file you need to recreate Oct 19 16:47:25 MohammadAG, thanks! Oct 19 16:47:25 whole idea of showing screenshot is evil Oct 19 16:47:31 lol jace Oct 19 16:47:46 if you want to add the screenshot to an app that's closed, take a screenshot, trim the top window bar, then use my pvrcreator app Oct 19 16:47:49 * slonopotamus yawns Oct 19 16:48:01 i did waste time grepping for no reason Oct 19 16:48:02 jacekowski, i like it Oct 19 16:48:11 looking for pixelized text Oct 19 16:48:19 but i am happy now, thanks again Oct 19 16:48:27 jacekowski, I use an "Application loading" image in my PSFreedom app Oct 19 16:48:35 so it's not entirely evil when used properly Oct 19 16:48:47 MohammadAG: it makes application startup _slower_ Oct 19 16:49:05 MohammadAG: because some time spent loading image. Oct 19 16:49:12 :) Oct 19 16:49:15 slonopotamus: that's insignificant Oct 19 16:49:15 it's on the hw native format Oct 19 16:49:23 it's nearly sent as is to pvr Oct 19 16:49:27 which uncompresses it Oct 19 16:49:43 but it just makes you think that app is loaded Oct 19 16:49:45 and it isn't Oct 19 16:49:53 jacekowski: that's mmc access. Oct 19 16:50:10 (which is likely to be a disk cache miss) Oct 19 16:50:17 slonopotamus: it takes like 0.1s to load Oct 19 16:50:17 it's just a pvr image? Oct 19 16:50:30 so technically you can have your own startup image? Oct 19 16:50:34 yes Oct 19 16:50:40 * oshin replaces all with some pr0n Oct 19 16:50:46 jpinx-eeepc, so how much space did your debian chroot need? Oct 19 16:50:53 bacon porn... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMmmmm Oct 19 16:51:04 oh no, not rule 34 again Oct 19 16:51:08 om nom nom nom Oct 19 16:51:40 lol Oct 19 16:51:58 can you just block it from writing the folder Oct 19 16:52:09 chmod whatever. Oct 19 16:52:14 oshin, as I said, I made a simple GUI to make PVRs Oct 19 16:52:24 MohammadAG, i saw the package.. Oct 19 16:52:26 cool Oct 19 16:52:41 sure, chmod it Oct 19 16:52:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=837973#post837973 Oct 19 16:52:54 or remove the code in hildon-desktop Oct 19 16:53:04 * javispedro ponders whether he should add such a feature into sdlhildon Oct 19 16:53:08 thanks! Oct 19 16:53:36 now controlpanel starts right Oct 19 16:53:42 * oshin is so happy Oct 19 16:54:07 jacekowski, actually I like the idea... read the story of some guy who didn't figure that after switching on the device immediately a screenshot was shown for a year or so... Oct 19 16:54:52 Noobmonk3y, pics or it didnt happen Oct 19 16:55:04 lcuk: google for bacon rule 34 Oct 19 16:55:06 duh Oct 19 16:55:10 so obviously, after you see the app, your brain needs some time to think what button to press (or at least that's how I explain it for myself)... and so you don't start using stuff immediately Oct 19 16:55:14 kerio, why do that Oct 19 16:55:32 * lcuk goes and visits the bacon museum instead :P Oct 19 16:55:40 lcuk: dunno, to emotionally scar yourself for life Oct 19 16:55:41 CutMeOwnThroat: unless you already know exactly what to do Oct 19 16:55:48 in which case you just swear at the damn image Oct 19 16:55:48 naked pig products... *shudder* Oct 19 16:55:50 yesh :) Oct 19 16:56:03 or you wait for the disappearence of jpg artifacts Oct 19 16:56:07 i want a live wallaper that look like galaxy one Oct 19 16:56:08 kerio: which then disappears in utter surprise until your brain remembers the entire trickery Oct 19 16:56:33 the settings menu is especially guilty of this Oct 19 16:56:35 changing desktop would slide the nearer stars faster then the back sprite a bit Oct 19 16:56:46 kerio, sure... I've never tried it myself, but if there is an inherent pause because of brain-lag, using the same time for loading something on the device and loading something in your brain would be multitasking and improve efficiency :) Oct 19 16:56:49 or tilting the phone could fake some perspective Oct 19 16:57:24 hmm probably cant' tell the direction you are looking at it. Oct 19 16:57:38 CutMeOwnThroat: my main complaint is the lack of information regarding the completeness of loading Oct 19 16:57:42 hmm should work.. Oct 19 16:57:45 n/m Oct 19 16:57:52 thanks again Oct 19 16:57:56 i don't mind if you show me a screenshot of what i'll got if you make it clear it's still loading Oct 19 16:57:57 this is assuming that only at the moment you see the loaded image something is triggered in your brain and the pause starts at the time Oct 19 16:58:29 I wonder if that would deceive the purpose of simulating a working app == creating the trigger, though Oct 19 16:59:05 as long as the person seeing it never figures it's just a screenshot, I would say something is going right there... Oct 19 16:59:50 and if he starts swearing at it, something is going wrong :) Oct 19 17:00:13 kerio: there's this title bar throbber thingie... Oct 19 17:00:43 not good enuff Oct 19 17:02:34 lcuk: omfg double woot Oct 19 17:02:44 now have a combobox selecting different stackable windows! Oct 19 17:03:00 * Noobmonk3y is starting to think this aint half bad... its gonna kick me where it hurts soon! Oct 19 17:03:38 kerio: thank god they don't do this for the clock app, thus showing you the wrong time while the app is loading =) (like it already does while unfocused) Oct 19 17:04:21 hehe Oct 19 17:05:25 javispedro: it doesn't? I guess that's true for just one clock app, I heard people complaining about exactly that for some clocks Oct 19 17:05:49 DocScrutinizer51: considering it's a opt-in feature that would be pretty bad. Oct 19 17:28:33 slightly offtopic, but what cases do people like for the N900? The Noreve one looks quite nice. Oct 19 17:29:43 i have a nice 2 slip in one, lasted a year, almost time for a replacement :) Oct 19 17:31:06 orospakr: otterbox works well for me Oct 19 17:33:47 trumee, hm, that's also a strong contender. Oct 19 17:35:02 no case, zagg, held up a year so far Oct 19 17:36:21 orospakr: only issue with otterbox is that i havent a car mount for it, since it is thick Oct 19 17:36:22 whats the current n900's target repo? fremantle, diablo, chinook? Oct 19 17:36:27 how could I subscribe to calendar in iCalendar (or vCalendar for that matter) format which is served via https? Oct 19 17:37:01 fremantle Oct 19 17:37:16 chinook = maemo 4.0 Oct 19 17:37:29 diablo = maemo 4.1 Oct 19 17:40:48 and n900 = maemo5? Oct 19 17:42:00 fremantle Oct 19 17:42:09 ah okay Oct 19 17:45:55 yes, N900 = maemo 5 = fremantle Oct 19 17:48:34 Symbian Foundation has just announced that executive directory Lee Williams has left the company Oct 19 17:48:46 surprise surprise Oct 19 17:49:04 ... for HP? Oct 19 17:49:07 He's been replaced by the reigning CFO, Tim Holbrow, and it appears that the appointment is permanent Oct 19 17:49:15 javispedro: For HELL! Oct 19 17:49:52 RST38h: couldn't take more of the lsd, obviously Oct 19 17:50:17 Stskeeps: YOu mean it is not only their web site designers? Oct 19 17:50:35 anyone approving of that has to be on drugs Oct 19 17:51:05 lol javispedro i misread that as "for .........BP" Oct 19 17:51:49 frals: v quiet tonight? :p Oct 19 17:52:24 Anyone know how I invalidate a given QModelIndex in a QTableView? Oct 19 17:52:25 ? :P Oct 19 17:55:55 argh, I hate model-view crap, especially when the docs are somewhat lacking Oct 19 17:56:08 hmmm Oct 19 17:57:44 can i borrow someone's qt/C++ brain please? - hopefully an easy question about slots / signals Oct 19 17:58:14 mine's partially swapped out thinking about delegates, but I might manage an easy one Oct 19 17:58:14 MVC does tend to suck Oct 19 17:58:25 lardman: but can't you do without MVC? Oct 19 17:58:37 The sheer complexity of the Qt setup plus the lack of examples is painful Oct 19 17:58:54 This will be rather longwinded..... Oct 19 17:59:12 mBarcode, parse the plugins and display a list of plugins that can handle the barcode type and content Oct 19 17:59:45 this is implemented as a QListView with custom delegates to render an icon returned by the plugin + some descriptive text Oct 19 18:00:01 lol lardman ! Oct 19 18:00:17 toggles has pm'd me and telling me i'm a fool brb while he assists the weak and feeble like me :) Oct 19 18:00:21 unfortunately this does not react when you press an item, though the code callback works, but if the plugin is a bit slow the user has no idea anything has happened Oct 19 18:01:23 so I'm uming and aring about whether to just insert a custom widget (qpushbutton with icon and text) or somehow invalidating the item rect and then rendering a pushed down button using QStyle*crap Oct 19 18:01:48 I'm currently on two channels and on both on them someone is bashing qt =) Oct 19 18:01:56 so I'll probably just leave it alone and work on something that's not UI related. I hate UIs ;) Oct 19 18:02:07 lardman: Ok. First mistake: using custom delegates Oct 19 18:02:12 (note: not on this server) Oct 19 18:02:13 javispedro: not bashing Qt, just the docs/examples Oct 19 18:02:23 lardman: Avoid custom-draw stuff as much as possible Oct 19 18:02:30 hi Oct 19 18:02:40 Heya, KotCzarny. You moved? Oct 19 18:02:49 anyone played with XShmPutImage on maemo? Oct 19 18:02:58 I did, it works. Oct 19 18:03:03 rst: yeah, i do it from time to time Oct 19 18:03:04 RST38h: use insertWidget instead? Oct 19 18:03:15 rst: mine doesn't want to. although the same code works on x86 Oct 19 18:03:25 lardman: Good idea, although I think Qt offers a few different default list item styles. One may work Oct 19 18:03:27 one thing is that i create 32bit pixmap Oct 19 18:03:36 KotCzarny: You cannot Oct 19 18:03:47 rst: xdpyinfo says i can Oct 19 18:03:52 KotCzarny: Always create native pixmap, i.e. 16bpp on N900 Oct 19 18:04:03 x server should do the conversion Oct 19 18:04:05 xdpyinfo says all kinds of silliness, but only 16bpp will work Oct 19 18:04:05 end up using sock as case Oct 19 18:04:08 It does not. Oct 19 18:04:08 at least in theory Oct 19 18:04:21 While we're thinking about Qt, what does one use in pyqt to differentiate between a windows and a linux platform? Oct 19 18:04:27 Once more time: X will not do the conversion. ANd this covers both Xfree and Xorg Oct 19 18:04:38 Sun's X11 *may* but you are not on a Sun Oct 19 18:04:40 rst: stupid xfree and xorg Oct 19 18:04:52 nope sorry lard, was hard enough getting it to work on maemo lol Oct 19 18:05:02 ok, i'll check 16bit one. bbl Oct 19 18:05:18 KotCzarny: You want a code sample? Oct 19 18:05:34 oh, and in case anyone wants to check out my new visualizer: mrrrrau.dyndns.org:21380/osc6 Oct 19 18:05:37 x86 code though Oct 19 18:05:41 32bpp stuff does work, at least when the compositor is on Oct 19 18:05:47 Noobmonk3y: there are #defines in C++, so I was wondering if one could use a similar method in the Python code Oct 19 18:05:51 with a compositor, maybe Oct 19 18:06:24 ooo good question hold on, have a little repo of python/qt code, will wander throughit and see it it has been done in there Oct 19 18:06:28 rst: if it doesn't have any maemo specific bits (apart from 16bit) then not yet Oct 19 18:06:35 KotCzarny: EMULib source here: http://fms.komkon.org/EMUL8/ Oct 19 18:06:53 KotCzarny: Check out the LibUnix.cpp part. YOu do not need any maemo specific bits for it to work Oct 19 18:07:09 oh, god.. Oct 19 18:07:11 do need to go through some pain with SysV IPC API Oct 19 18:07:19 hehe Oct 19 18:07:31 why not ? Oct 19 18:07:40 * KotCzarny grins Oct 19 18:08:07 lardman: something as simple as calling os.environ ? Oct 19 18:08:39 hey, how do I query the current battery status from the command line? Oct 19 18:08:56 hehe, use kcbatt Oct 19 18:08:58 :) Oct 19 18:09:47 anyway, gotta test that 16bit Oct 19 18:10:27 was just thinking the environ should handle it - so maybe - print os.environ.get() ? not used that in a while though Oct 19 18:10:40 either way, both compositor and x11 are 16bpp only, so 32bpp is useless save for the 8bpp alpha channel Oct 19 18:10:47 bah, too late. Oct 19 18:10:50 *safe. Oct 19 18:10:55 forget that. Oct 19 18:12:31 javispedro: moo btw Oct 19 18:16:24 hi RST38h Oct 19 18:24:11 * Noobmonk3y has decided assumption is the mother of all.................BACON Oct 19 18:26:06 wow kerio didnt blink, lcuk didnt slurp and frals didnt throw a trout, freaky Oct 19 18:26:22 meh Oct 19 18:26:28 just ate pizza Oct 19 18:26:46 i usually wait about 10 minutes before craving bacon again Oct 19 18:26:47 Noobmonk3y: this channel is clearly not as cool as it used to be =) Oct 19 18:27:08 awwwww true true....... Oct 19 18:27:26 and talking of cool, where is qwerty? (Watches the hushed silence and tumbleweed) Oct 19 18:27:59 ooooo talking of pizza, i'm hungry Oct 19 18:32:41 what's the problem with the espeak packages on the N900? Don't get any output from the gui-thingy or the commandline... no error message on the terminal or in dmesg either, though Oct 19 18:35:26 sigh... is there anyway to force a Qt *view class to change the background color on an n900? Oct 19 18:35:38 it seems to be locked to to theme without any way of modifying it? Oct 19 18:37:31 hm, seems to work for other people on the net without problems Oct 19 18:38:14 CutMeOwnThroat: I tried to get it working way back when and it failed for me too, if it makes you feel better. But thas was near PR1.0.1 or something. Oct 19 18:38:32 (having completely forgotten the version numbers of the PR series from back then too) Oct 19 18:40:56 hm Oct 19 18:43:17 hardaker, styleSheet? Oct 19 18:46:16 hardaker, if stylesheet didn't fix it, it s come from the maemo qt style Oct 19 18:46:43 stylsheet didn't work. Oct 19 18:46:49 m_answerView->setStyleSheet("QTreeView { background-color: #ff9696; }"); Oct 19 18:46:55 that works on everything *but* the n900 Oct 19 18:47:03 On a treeview Oct 19 18:47:04 arg Oct 19 18:47:06 oh... I had it set on silent... I thought that's only for the phone - media player and others totally ignored that setting, but espeak honored it Oct 19 18:47:10 i ve made many attempts too Oct 19 18:47:23 hardaker, it s hard coded :) Oct 19 18:47:27 it's really annoying when you want to color code the responses! Oct 19 18:47:28 ugh. Oct 19 18:47:31 I actually thought that setting only affecte the phone functionality Oct 19 18:47:42 not really hard coded but define by the maemo theme Oct 19 18:47:59 hardaker, styleSheets work on my N900 :/ Oct 19 18:48:01 for khweeteur i use a delegate :) Oct 19 18:48:03 anyone know what the ding means when the phone shuts off some times? Oct 19 18:48:09 MohammadAG, depends on which widget Oct 19 18:48:23 MohammadAG, background will not work on a QTreeView Oct 19 18:48:24 yeah... I realize the goal and understand it untli you need more flexibility for something. Oct 19 18:48:24 MohammadAG: really.... hmm.... Oct 19 18:48:38 Khertan, oh, I use it on QMainWindow Oct 19 18:48:53 MohammadAG, on a QMainWindow it s works Oct 19 18:48:54 :) Oct 19 18:49:12 MohammadAG: I'd happily give you a package to try if you want to see if it works on a tree view. But I'm sure it doesn't. Oct 19 18:49:39 (what's annoying even more is that the stylesheet *does* affect the space to the left of the view; ie, the indented space as you go into the tree) Oct 19 18:49:56 hardaker, i use a custom delegate Oct 19 18:50:25 example : http://gitorious.org/khweeteur/khweeteur/blobs/master/khweeteur/__init__.py line 899 Oct 19 18:51:01 QTreeView.setItemDelegate Oct 19 18:51:02 : Oct 19 18:51:02 :) Oct 19 18:51:21 I haven't ever tried a delegate yet. Oct 19 18:51:28 I need to learn about them though Oct 19 18:51:37 although i've never met anyone that liked playing with them yet! Oct 19 18:52:12 BTW, thanks for the twitter client. It's still the best one out there for the N900. Oct 19 18:53:04 guess I'll have to ! Oct 19 18:53:10 deedeedee Oct 19 18:55:05 hm, what is with multimedia messages? Oct 19 18:56:06 hardaker, thx Oct 19 18:56:21 hardaker, personnally i ve liked to play with them :) Oct 19 18:56:30 good to hear! Oct 19 18:56:36 It's time for me to dive in... Oct 19 18:56:50 really better than playing with Gtk.DrawingArea :) Oct 19 18:57:40 heh. Oct 19 18:57:54 so two non-free apps won callingallinnovators, and one of them is not being released due to copyright owner(s) not agreeing to forget about GPL and make it proprietary. smells nice. Oct 19 18:57:59 I've done things with QPainters before so you'd think I would have at least tried merging the two... but I haven't. Oct 19 18:58:34 javispedro, this contest was a shame from the start Oct 19 18:58:43 one of the reason that i didn't particip Oct 19 18:58:54 javispedro: tis pants :( Oct 19 18:58:59 Khertan: seems so. Oct 19 18:59:34 I have to wonder how many devs participated. cause I didn't, either. Oct 19 19:00:07 i think they didn't have many choice, and from the choice they made ... i ll said : two dev :) Oct 19 19:00:13 i didnt :p Oct 19 19:00:26 couldnt really enter with healthcheck :p Oct 19 19:00:40 couldn't really enter with KhtEditor :) Oct 19 19:00:58 and didn't plan to submit Khweeteur Oct 19 19:01:02 Khertan: you've made more than that! anyway, until yesterday i used most of em lol Oct 19 19:01:09 * MohammadAG should've applied with a dd gui that wipes your rootfs Oct 19 19:01:16 I guess I could'v entered with comic widget, if it wasn't so shitty Oct 19 19:01:21 MohammadAG: i shoulda submitted PR1.4 ;) Oct 19 19:01:24 "Oooh what does this app do, nice UI... huh... WTF" Oct 19 19:01:54 MohammadAG: it would have probably won Oct 19 19:01:57 MohammadAG, hum ... nice idea for next context :) Oct 19 19:02:07 LOL Oct 19 19:02:09 MohammadAG: and you would be 25,000 richer by now. happy? Oct 19 19:02:12 probably a Meego Call For Innovator contest Oct 19 19:02:13 =) Oct 19 19:02:42 javispedro, yeah, it would've been a killer app Oct 19 19:02:44 lol khertan :P Oct 19 19:02:48 i suggest doing a fractal representation of the data destruction Oct 19 19:02:56 first person to make meego look like windows 3.11 wins 25k ;) Oct 19 19:03:44 Noobmonk3y, isn't it already non functional? Oct 19 19:03:45 talking of meego, wish i could go to dublin :) - just no money and no time :( Oct 19 19:03:46 jk Oct 19 19:03:46 it ll be not too difficult to do ... Oct 19 19:03:50 lol mo! Oct 19 19:03:59 like win it didn't work well currently Oct 19 19:04:02 * MohammadAG still ponders if he should go Oct 19 19:04:07 or save the money for something else Oct 19 19:04:21 CutMeOwnThroat: 2 GBs Oct 19 19:04:27 * Khertan will not go to dublin Oct 19 19:04:36 how come Oct 19 19:04:40 then who's going :( Oct 19 19:04:47 me Oct 19 19:04:50 you're going? Oct 19 19:04:51 cool Oct 19 19:04:54 the nothing to see ... and global attitude make me feeling that i wasn't welcome Oct 19 19:05:01 lol Oct 19 19:05:02 Stskeeps, not really sure Oct 19 19:05:08 * Noobmonk3y welcomes khertan with added bacon Oct 19 19:05:16 BACON Oct 19 19:05:16 i'm only 300 miles way! Oct 19 19:05:20 Khertan: we have a killer app development program, but ok.. Oct 19 19:05:24 but seriously have zerrrrrrrrro cash! Oct 19 19:05:30 Stskeeps, see above :P Oct 19 19:05:35 CutMeOwnThroat: next time I will make it the whole of a micro sd card tht will be able to be mounted as a chroot *or* just as data Oct 19 19:05:44 kerio, have i mentioned i love you? lol :P Oct 19 19:05:44 Stskeeps, * MohammadAG should've applied with a dd gui that wipes your rootfs <-- NOW THAT'S A KILLER APP! Oct 19 19:05:45 Stskeeps, we have a killer app idea :) Oct 19 19:05:46 :P Oct 19 19:05:57 wait Oct 19 19:06:00 dd is dangerous Oct 19 19:06:11 ok, mtd-utils's flash_clean Oct 19 19:06:29 it destroys your rootfs, but doesn't damage your hardware ;) Oct 19 19:06:29 Stskeeps, really didn't hear of any Oct 19 19:06:51 lol Oct 19 19:07:07 Khertan, there weren't any, muhahaha Oct 19 19:07:15 Khertan: did you see the program? :P Oct 19 19:07:21 Whenever the phone is unused, flash the CMT over and over. Oct 19 19:07:27 the killer app program killed the guy who planned it Oct 19 19:07:32 After 100K flashes - around a week - ... Oct 19 19:07:32 Stskeeps, on the same time ... i m still hoping some day there will be a community obs ... and a community repository for meego Oct 19 19:07:39 MohammadAG: you trout killer you! Oct 19 19:07:41 Khertan: i'm with you on that one Oct 19 19:07:52 Khertan: would be good ) Oct 19 19:07:58 why don't bars serve bacon? Oct 19 19:08:01 * MohammadAG wants debs for MeeGo Oct 19 19:08:08 pft. Oct 19 19:08:10 Stskeeps: aren't you the person to ask to make that so? Oct 19 19:08:18 Stskeeps, don't try to convince me RPMs > Debs, you won't succeed :P Oct 19 19:08:19 * Noobmonk3y lols at MohammadAG Oct 19 19:08:31 MohammadAG: Bacon > trouts Oct 19 19:08:35 * javispedro has some days the uncanny feeling that he wants to throw everything and reinvent the wheel. Oct 19 19:08:41 * MohammadAG pokes frals Oct 19 19:08:48 Noobmonk3y, blasphemy! Oct 19 19:08:48 Khertan: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/schedule - quite a lot of app development + design talks, hands-on workshops and tutorials on getting started with meego sdk :P Oct 19 19:08:51 Stskeeps, i m still waiting an update on current meego target on the community obs to build pyside for current meego target :) Oct 19 19:08:55 MohammadAG: if you succeed in convincing them to switch to deb, i'll buy you a keg of beer Oct 19 19:08:59 Khertan: ah.. Oct 19 19:09:05 i wonder if the NHS would sponsor me to go to the conference lol Oct 19 19:09:09 ieatlint, I don't drink, so I'll donate it to... Oct 19 19:09:14 * MohammadAG looks at channel list Oct 19 19:09:18 Stskeeps, i didn't need meego sdk ... not interested by this c++ everywhere spirit :) Oct 19 19:09:28 Khertan: fair enough Oct 19 19:09:31 ok, then i'll buy you something you do drink/eat Oct 19 19:09:31 lol Khertan started c++ yesterday! Oct 19 19:09:32 ChanServ! that dude never leaves this channel Oct 19 19:09:45 MohammadAG: dont start me on nickserv Oct 19 19:09:50 or bloody infobot Oct 19 19:09:52 Khertan: sdk is still useful for running pyqt stuff Oct 19 19:09:54 or pyside Oct 19 19:09:54 :P Oct 19 19:09:54 * MohammadAG starts Noobmonk3y on nickserv Oct 19 19:10:00 Noobmonk3y, infobot quit once Oct 19 19:10:02 * Noobmonk3y farts Oct 19 19:10:03 Stskeeps, a device is better ... Oct 19 19:10:05 I think it rage quit Oct 19 19:10:09 Khertan: that too Oct 19 19:10:12 MohammadAG: that was armageddon preparations Oct 19 19:10:28 Noobmonk3y, it's the apocalypse!!!11!!!!!!!!!11 Oct 19 19:10:29 Stskeeps, i ll like too be able to code on my netbook ... and make things cross working on the n900 too Oct 19 19:10:46 preparations, not the actual things... apocalypse takes time! Oct 19 19:10:54 do I receive signal 11 when I die? Oct 19 19:10:55 Noobmonk3y, i know c++ but didn't like using it Oct 19 19:10:58 minecraft on maemo yet? Oct 19 19:11:01 Khertan: just like c++ :p hehehe Oct 19 19:11:11 also Oct 19 19:11:13 Noobmonk3y, well, when nuclear batteries are out, no, it doesn't Oct 19 19:11:22 Khertan: i might not be too far away from coming back to pyqt - if only we had the same tools + functionality! Oct 19 19:11:28 hmm Oct 19 19:11:29 MohammadAG: no, you get a WM_QUIT event when you die Oct 19 19:11:30 MohammadAG: i'd like to bet with you that after trying out yaml+spec for a week you'll never want to go back to debs :P Oct 19 19:11:34 :P Oct 19 19:11:36 Noobmonk3y, which tool are missing ? Oct 19 19:11:44 if Apple used nuclear batteries... Oct 19 19:11:55 and some idiot decided to see if it will blend or not Oct 19 19:11:58 well, qt creator, one click, running on device, wysiwyg designer etc.... Oct 19 19:12:02 * Khertan hate spec Oct 19 19:12:03 or just shoved it in a microwave Oct 19 19:12:05 would be cool Oct 19 19:12:09 (although thats a recent development for me) Oct 19 19:12:16 Stskeeps, then it's a bet Oct 19 19:12:28 if I like RPMs, you switch to debs, if not, you can keep RPMs Oct 19 19:12:31 Noobmonk3y, lol qt creator one click, look messy everywhere except on your pc Oct 19 19:12:36 see what I did there? Oct 19 19:12:53 but on the other side i like the suse obs Oct 19 19:12:53 :) Oct 19 19:12:54 Khertan: true :P - but tis running quicker on the device at present then old Healthcheck Oct 19 19:13:06 and with mobility etc i have a few more gadgets to use Oct 19 19:13:08 Qt/C++ > PyQt Oct 19 19:13:13 this is because you didn't use the right py libs Oct 19 19:13:14 lol MohammadAG Oct 19 19:13:14 Python is just slow Oct 19 19:13:26 * MohammadAG will brb, after this short announcement Oct 19 19:13:29 nah seriously, bbl Oct 19 19:13:33 Khertan: you mean that is because there is no documentation to teach me lol :P Oct 19 19:13:35 well, less Oct 19 19:13:37 MohammadAG, py is slow when used by bad coders Oct 19 19:13:50 Khertan: i'll be a good test.... Oct 19 19:13:50 Khertan, thou dare call me a bad coder? Oct 19 19:13:50 like everything Oct 19 19:14:05 MohammadAG, a bad py coder :) Oct 19 19:14:05 Khertan, :P Oct 19 19:14:16 Khertan: 2 weeks to code a pyqt app to get it into maemo downloads, (including waiting period) dont think i'll beat that in c++ lol Oct 19 19:14:20 Khertan, so true Oct 19 19:14:21 :P Oct 19 19:14:23 brb Oct 19 19:14:53 but i spent alot of time afterwards wondering how to do things and couldnt find any documentation anywhere.... so trying a different approach :) Oct 19 19:15:16 + i miss the VB style screen layout, drag n drop lol Oct 19 19:15:23 ~VB Oct 19 19:15:23 it has been said that vb is something stupid Oct 19 19:15:29 Noobmonk3y, QML!!!! Oct 19 19:15:33 Noobmonk3y, optimizing is difficult Oct 19 19:15:46 Noobmonk3y, in python there is few rule Oct 19 19:15:47 s Oct 19 19:16:13 use the most often py module (as they are already optimized and writted in c) Oct 19 19:16:21 as possible Oct 19 19:16:28 lol and lol Oct 19 19:16:33 2/ profile Oct 19 19:16:37 3/ profile Oct 19 19:16:40 4 / profile Oct 19 19:16:42 true :P Oct 19 19:16:45 5/ profile again :) Oct 19 19:16:52 actually not disagreeing as i much much prefer python :) Oct 19 19:17:21 but in 2 hours of QT designer and 4 lines of code i have a more usable app layout ... (mainly cos i had no idea on pyqt) Oct 19 19:17:48 coding is muich harder, guis and layout seems easier, anyway, will see if it is better or not in a few weeks :P Oct 19 19:17:56 and in the worst case rewrite things to slow to compute in python c compiled module :) Oct 19 19:17:57 literally recoding the whole of healthcheck :| Oct 19 19:18:47 Noobmonk3y, lol funny , maybe i didn't understand the phylosophy under qtcreator ... but i spent 2 days to trying to do an gui for khweeteur Oct 19 19:18:57 hehehe :) Oct 19 19:19:01 and i finally write it manually in one hour :) Oct 19 19:19:02 thats fair enough though :p Oct 19 19:19:18 but having choice is still better :) Oct 19 19:19:21 but thats maybe because you understood pyqt? - it was my first try with healthcheck Oct 19 19:19:27 and yes i definitley agree Oct 19 19:19:40 if it doesnt work for me i'll move on :P hehe, although still playing with pyqt at the mo Oct 19 19:19:49 i didn't understood it ... just trying to learn :) Oct 19 19:19:52 theres no doubt i prefer python as a language :) Oct 19 19:20:07 i meant python, ie, you knew pyqt more then you knew c++/qt Oct 19 19:21:48 alright, I uploaded a package top extras. the build failed Oct 19 19:21:56 how do I know why it failed? ;) Oct 19 19:22:02 http://maemo.org/packages/view/buliscores/ Oct 19 19:22:25 Goliath23: Warning: This package does not have a proper description Oct 19 19:22:58 ah, thought that was only a warning Oct 19 19:23:06 its the reason the build failes? Oct 19 19:24:46 http://pastebin.com/fMcRhSV8 Oct 19 19:24:48 erm there is a build log somewhere Oct 19 19:24:51 this is the control file. Oct 19 19:25:12 Noobmonk3y: that's what i'm searching for! Oct 19 19:25:47 you normally get an email, albeit delayed :0 Oct 19 19:28:33 i'm assuming best thing to do is email Andre (is he still bugs master?) as he will let you know exactley why Oct 19 19:28:36 bugsmaster :) Oct 19 19:29:01 or ask him here Oct 19 19:29:06 * andre__ too lazy to read backlog Oct 19 19:29:45 Goliath23: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/buliscores_0.0.2-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Oct 19 19:29:49 andre__: lol! Oct 19 19:29:58 i was trying to remember how to find build logs :) Oct 19 19:30:19 and andre__ thank you :) Oct 19 19:30:53 och, I'm not involved in the builder. I'm just the monkey reading your bug reports. :-P Oct 19 19:31:14 lol andre__ compared to me you are bugs god :P lol - anyway, you will understand em more :P Oct 19 19:31:16 ah, thanks! Oct 19 19:31:24 maybe we should s/master/monkey/g on all the staff titles Oct 19 19:31:25 lets see. it doesn't find the .pro file... Oct 19 19:31:27 and you are here, and said hello, so by that, you know more than me lol Oct 19 19:31:36 lol keeps Oct 19 19:31:51 Stskeeps, I'm in. Oct 19 19:32:00 * Noobmonk3y too Oct 19 19:32:27 andre__: how would bug monkey as a title work on immigration papers? Oct 19 19:32:27 :P Oct 19 19:32:33 +work Oct 19 19:32:42 Stskeeps: better then /united kingdom/ on most Oct 19 19:33:17 Don't tell me about migration. I'm not even registered in this country ;-) Oct 19 19:33:23 lol!!!!!!!! Oct 19 19:33:50 * Noobmonk3y is half aussie and never been to australia, but it pisses people off knowing i can get an aussie passport and just move there... yet i hadnt even though about that! Oct 19 19:34:18 is builddir a variable in the rules file? Oct 19 19:34:35 yet to go to america i need to piss in the wind on a blue moon when the pigs fly over the right side of the never seen apocalyptic clud with a trout in one pocket and a rasher of bacon stamped on my forehead! Oct 19 19:34:36 andre__: i'm still unsure what i signed when i requested a 5 year residence permit here in poland Oct 19 19:34:36 or am I supposed to change it? (I copied it from a tutoial) Oct 19 19:34:41 Stskeeps, The fine I have to pay for not registering is less than the money I'd lose by not working one day and lining up at the foreigner's police to wait for hours... Oct 19 19:34:42 MOAR BACON Oct 19 19:35:08 is that permanent or temporary residence? Oct 19 19:35:10 andre__: sounds like you are next in line for immigration to the UK lol - thats the fine ;) Oct 19 19:35:19 Stskeeps: even Oct 19 19:35:25 Noobmonk3y, everything but UK. Too much CCTV. Oct 19 19:35:36 lol - theres none near me, what do people whine about? Oct 19 19:35:37 andre__: 3 month residence first, then 5 years based on marriage to a polish citizen and my polish company Oct 19 19:35:46 permanent is after that.. Oct 19 19:35:46 Noobmonk3y must have done something very bad for the USA-ians to not let a paddy in Oct 19 19:35:48 anyway, they cant afford people to monitor the cctv :P Oct 19 19:35:53 paddy?! Oct 19 19:35:56 paddy!!!!!!! Oct 19 19:35:57 Stskeeps, oh true, you are married. I should consider that too :-P Oct 19 19:36:03 dont you paddywhack me! lol Oct 19 19:36:10 andre__: yes, it scares me too Oct 19 19:36:21 jacekowski: Sorry for the highlight. I just wanted to say I got it to work again. I flashed both FIASCO and eMMC, then enabled R&D mode, ran fsck since it was mounted as r/o; installed rootsh; then disabled r&d mode and ran another fsck Oct 19 19:36:27 It seems to work now Oct 19 19:36:47 If they kick me out here, France or Istanbul are on my wishlist. Because I can. Oct 19 19:37:07 hehehe :P Oct 19 19:37:10 Stskeeps, I can only get permanent residence after three years of being here Oct 19 19:37:14 maybe not france now, at least if you have a car ;) Oct 19 19:37:23 petrol is more expensive than caviar, or at least non existent ;) Oct 19 19:37:56 yeah, "greve" is an important french word... Oct 19 19:38:02 (on strike) Oct 19 19:38:11 lol :P Oct 19 19:38:20 fwiw - it's cheaper and easier for me to be here as a tourist and just renew the visa Oct 19 19:39:03 same in Peru - getting anything approaching residence is just too difficult Oct 19 19:39:35 really? Oct 19 19:39:48 The UK needs to learn lol Oct 19 19:40:02 andre__: i'm personally happy to have escaped danish tax.. Oct 19 19:40:10 our bloody fault for colinising the damn world Oct 19 19:40:23 the Ukis vastly over-rated ;) Oct 19 19:41:04 Stskeeps, haha, do you think I had a different reason to move? :-P Oct 19 19:41:12 lol jpinx-eeepc :P Oct 19 19:41:31 its a nice place if you can ignore the papers and politics, let alone the foreign view of it :) Oct 19 19:41:53 (Plus I got out of the state's pension system. I wouldn't get anything anyway later, so why pay?) Oct 19 19:41:58 it's not until you have left the UK for a while that you realise how crapp it is Oct 19 19:42:03 hahaha Oct 19 19:42:25 i've lived in quite a few places, but would always want to live where i did as a child :) Oct 19 19:42:38 although sitting on a beach somewhere is tempting :) Oct 19 19:42:56 That's just sentiment - not reality Oct 19 19:43:15 yeah, beach is missing in this country. that's the small downside. :-/ Oct 19 19:43:29 give me a sunny beach, cheap living and sexy girls anyday :p Oct 19 19:43:40 jpinx-eeepc: well, seintiment is reality? i liked it :) Oct 19 19:43:53 andre__: i would pay ~50% tax in .dk while 19% here.. Oct 19 19:44:13 :| Oct 19 19:44:14 Stskeeps: Are you planing to become a .PL citizen? Oct 19 19:44:18 RST38h: no Oct 19 19:44:18 * jpinx-eeepc pays 0% Oct 19 19:44:22 ufff Oct 19 19:44:41 RST38h: i live here, registered here and paying tax here, but i wouldn't trade my .dk passport Oct 19 19:44:45 :P Oct 19 19:45:05 Stskeeps, uh, nice. 42% vs 23% here. Oct 19 19:45:10 Stskeeps: I almost though you went nuts =) Oct 19 19:45:23 RST38h: that too Oct 19 19:45:34 andre: 13%, if you disregard other stuff Oct 19 19:46:25 flattax? Oct 19 19:46:30 yes Oct 19 19:46:42 and the residence status (for tax purposes) is 6 months out of a year Oct 19 19:47:19 holmes.freenode.net, you suck Oct 19 19:47:35 * andre__ changes "bugmaster" to "bugmonkey" in his meegoconf presentation slides Oct 19 19:47:52 RST38h, same here with the 6months rule Oct 19 19:49:24 w000000000000p Oct 19 19:49:42 andre__: you can't be a bug monkey without my say so :P lol Oct 19 19:49:49 monkeymaster rules, ;) Oct 19 19:52:33 Noobmonk3y: Ah, sorry. (one of my personal rules for work is "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission") Oct 19 19:52:59 andre_: as long you don't get fired :) Oct 19 19:53:07 ahhh good point :) :) :) Oct 19 19:53:51 yacc: errrm, another rule is "Come to work each day willing to be fired". This is stuff I do believe in ("10 Commandments" by Pinchot) Oct 19 19:54:02 (not that I came up with it myself) Oct 19 19:54:46 I rather like "Never apologise, never explain" Oct 19 19:55:07 RevdKathy, oh, you also work for Nokia then? :-P Oct 19 19:55:29 No, I work for the NHS - just as bad! Oct 19 19:55:43 :-) Oct 19 19:56:20 RevdKathy: Well, the NHS seems not that bad, it's relatively (compared to other national health systems) cheap, ... Oct 19 19:59:27 It's pretty decent if you're a patient with an emergency as a healthcare service. As an employer.... Oct 19 20:02:03 Heh,Gizmodo lays an egg: http://gizmodo.com/5667723/why-were-not-reviewing-the-nokia-n8 Oct 19 20:02:43 * Noobmonk3y blinks Oct 19 20:02:48 RevdKathy: Eveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeening! Oct 19 20:03:03 Evenin Noob - how's trick? Oct 19 20:03:04 * Noobmonk3y needs a new job, the nhs is dragging me down slowly :p Oct 19 20:03:12 two bottles of wine, evening tis good :) Oct 19 20:03:25 healthcheck is being c++'d :) Oct 19 20:03:29 slowly! Oct 19 20:04:19 hard learning new things :P Oct 19 20:05:02 Noobmonk3y, nice to see you considered my suggestion :P Oct 19 20:05:14 Hey, Noobmonk3y - fancy running away from the NHS? I am wondering wether I could retrain for anything else. Oct 19 20:05:19 Noobmonk3y: ? eat more bacon, drink more alcohol and find loose ladies? Oct 19 20:05:25 MohammadAG: even , omfg Oct 19 20:05:28 damn i'm slow Oct 19 20:05:37 lol RevdKathy !!!! Oct 19 20:05:50 Noobmonk3y: ? eat more bacon, drink more alcohol and find loose ladies? Oct 19 20:05:54 * MohammadAG sleeps Noobmonk3y Oct 19 20:06:08 its more a proferssional thing, i do get training, but get very little in job experience lol :P Oct 19 20:06:11 professional* Oct 19 20:06:28 C++ is easy, till kerio tries to help :P Oct 19 20:06:58 haha Oct 19 20:07:02 just feed him bacon ;) Oct 19 20:07:15 my experience with c++ is a hour of lesson at the uni while somebody who is *not* proficient by any means told us how to write a program that multiplied 5 by 3 and added 7 Oct 19 20:07:25 RevdKathy: Mandy(gf) is out learning sign language, so i'm learning c++ twas only fair ;) Oct 19 20:07:27 and outputted the result Oct 19 20:07:29 with printf Oct 19 20:07:34 so i guess it was a C lesson Oct 19 20:07:43 lol kerio Oct 19 20:07:59 Sounds good. I fear I am a little too old to retrain Oct 19 20:08:16 meh, i said that, two weeks ago i went over the hill so to speak :P Oct 19 20:08:18 Noobmonk3y: i shit you not Oct 19 20:08:29 dont shit on me, please, no really, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease Oct 19 20:08:41 i said i'm not shitting you Oct 19 20:08:44 relax Oct 19 20:08:47 hehehe Oct 19 20:09:03 RevdKathy: after your course this year, doing any more? Oct 19 20:09:12 oh, I didn't know that Nokia is changing symbian to meego on all N-devices Oct 19 20:09:14 kerio, uni? Oct 19 20:09:21 I thought you were 10 :P Oct 19 20:09:27 I thought that Meego's gonna be a maemo type little side project Oct 19 20:09:29 Taking a year out and debating a D Proff starting next year Oct 19 20:09:29 Scelt: neither did i :p Oct 19 20:09:36 http://gizmodo.com/5571633/nokia-ditching-symbian-for-n+series-phones Oct 19 20:09:37 wow!!!! Oct 19 20:09:41 MohammadAG: yeah, it's scary that i'm considered a responsible adult Oct 19 20:10:16 MohammadAG: just realised when i was in turkey... i was getting even closer to you :P lol - was probably only 1 hours ish flight away :P Oct 19 20:10:33 Noobmonk3y, turkey is 1.5h from the local airport Oct 19 20:10:45 :P :) :) Oct 19 20:10:46 by local, I mean a 30 minute drive @ 120kph Oct 19 20:10:49 meh, Oct 19 20:10:53 legal in some countries Oct 19 20:11:08 no idea what 120kph is in mph though Oct 19 20:11:09 hah, speed limit is 90 Oct 19 20:11:10 80? Oct 19 20:11:17 80 is 150km/h Oct 19 20:11:21 oh Oct 19 20:11:23 60? Oct 19 20:11:33 though you could easily find police cars driving over the speed limit Oct 19 20:11:33 no, wait Oct 19 20:11:34 so. meh Oct 19 20:11:41 88mph is 141km/h Oct 19 20:11:51 lol Oct 19 20:11:52 120 kph = 74.5645431 mph Oct 19 20:12:00 my dad routinely drives at about 170km/h on the highway :> Oct 19 20:12:07 i had a hyundai atos in lesvos, was genius, think i hit 80kph at one point :P Oct 19 20:12:15 * MohammadAG has not witnessed that yet Oct 19 20:12:24 kerio, timelapse pics or it didn't happen! Oct 19 20:12:46 peak was about 240km/h Oct 19 20:12:48 * Stskeeps is just happy to have a n900 compatible car, with usb plug charging it and a2dp working with it.. Oct 19 20:12:51 school trip on thrusday, I need 3 more BL-5J batteries Oct 19 20:13:02 in germany i was driving a vectra gsi (about 10 years ago) at a speed that will not be mentioned, when a mini ... yes a mini overtook me... goin at least 185mph.... ok it was done up to the buggery Oct 19 20:13:09 a2dp is awesome Oct 19 20:13:15 in a car Oct 19 20:13:39 also, it meant i could mark the car as a 'development device' for my work.. Oct 19 20:13:46 l9ol keeps Oct 19 20:13:48 lol* Oct 19 20:13:50 lol Oct 19 20:13:53 Stskeeps, mine too. fm transmitter is *awesome* Oct 19 20:14:13 * MohammadAG types why in google Oct 19 20:14:19 first hit, why did I get married LOL Oct 19 20:16:59 :P Oct 19 20:17:03 try "how much" ;) Oct 19 20:17:41 MohammadAG, why don't you buy a solar panel charger? Oct 19 20:18:09 what is that supposed to tell me? :) https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/buliscores_0.0.2-1/summary.log Oct 19 20:19:26 So? Why DID you get married? Oct 19 20:19:39 MohammadAG, btw, thanks for the pvr app it's perfect. Oct 19 20:20:13 * oshin is much psychologically satisfied. Oct 19 20:20:22 oshin, you're welcome :) Oct 19 20:20:31 kerio, are those enough to get the N900 past X? Oct 19 20:20:51 past x? Oct 19 20:20:59 Xorg Oct 19 20:20:59 Goliath23: a problem on File "/usr/lib/python2.5/shutil.py", line 51, in copyfile Oct 19 20:21:00 fdst.close() Oct 19 20:21:00 ? Oct 19 20:21:10 the N900 needs a huge amount of power to boot up Oct 19 20:21:34 you're not hotswitching? Oct 19 20:21:34 :o Oct 19 20:21:40 Noobmonk3y: I don't use python in my package Oct 19 20:21:49 kerio, how would I hotswitch, while OTG Oct 19 20:22:06 oh, that's why you carry 25 batteries with you Oct 19 20:22:06 doesn't have to use with USB OTG btw, I just used it as an acronym Oct 19 20:22:08 you can't charge Oct 19 20:22:13 no python libs? -> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/buildlib/app.py is starting the call! Oct 19 20:22:17 oh, nvm Oct 19 20:22:25 well, with the said solar charger for instance :) Oct 19 20:22:39 Noobmonk3y: its not in my package, though. its c++ and qt only Oct 19 20:22:53 offline mode, stop bme, suspend to ram, switch batteries, start bme, ntp Oct 19 20:22:58 and there is definitley no python system libs being called? Oct 19 20:23:11 andre__: :) Oct 19 20:23:20 kerio, no StR support afaik Oct 19 20:23:25 * Noobmonk3y looks at andre__ the brainy one :P Oct 19 20:23:48 MohammadAG: huh? Oct 19 20:23:58 echo mem > /sys/power/state Oct 19 20:24:23 brb Oct 19 20:24:45 meh back tomorrow, gf home Oct 19 20:24:48 need to de-wine! Oct 19 20:25:10 kerio, and how would it load that? Oct 19 20:25:23 actually Oct 19 20:25:38 how would I swap batteries without a power source Oct 19 20:25:59 as i said, buy a solar charger :) Oct 19 20:26:20 suspend to disk Oct 19 20:26:25 * MohammadAG bangs head on disk Oct 19 20:26:28 desk even Oct 19 20:26:47 256M is only ~10s suspend/restore times Oct 19 20:26:56 using both sd and mmc Oct 19 20:27:05 it was a design choice by nokia, yeah! Oct 19 20:27:08 even neglecting compression. Oct 19 20:27:32 Right: G'night all Oct 19 20:27:41 SpeedEvil, I thought suspend to disk wasn't possible Oct 19 20:27:50 night ... Oct 19 20:29:33 MohammadAG: anything is possible. Oct 19 20:29:52 MohammadAG: There is nothing in the hardware that precludes it. Oct 19 20:30:20 hmm. so is N8 i/o better than N900 since it has wifi n? Oct 19 20:30:31 o_O what? Oct 19 20:30:58 IO doesn't have to do with wifi Oct 19 20:31:12 N8 seems to have wifi n support. so can it handle high writing rate to flash memory. Oct 19 20:31:26 how is that related? Oct 19 20:31:26 :P Oct 19 20:31:36 well i would have thought it will be useful to do big downloads with wifi n Oct 19 20:31:51 symbian's browser is shit Oct 19 20:31:58 plus some people will want to run torrents with that high speed. Oct 19 20:32:12 I managed to get every song a national radio has aired over the past 2 years Oct 19 20:32:14 torrents on a flash are meh Oct 19 20:32:16 yes, wholly agree my N95 browser is horrible. Oct 19 20:32:41 123456 Oct 19 20:32:43 the N95 is 2xxMHz, give it a break :P Oct 19 20:32:49 wrong window Oct 19 20:32:51 what about serial download, single thread writing to a file (ie ftp/http download)? Oct 19 20:32:54 and 64MB ram Oct 19 20:33:19 MohammadAG: it's omap2420 afaik Oct 19 20:33:32 wmarone: we know your password now :) Oct 19 20:33:38 the n95's cpu sucks Oct 19 20:33:39 so wifi n is only useful for streaming videos i guess? Oct 19 20:33:46 Stskeeps, yeah Oct 19 20:33:51 ram was bumped to 128 with the us and the rev3 Oct 19 20:33:53 moin Oct 19 20:34:12 kerio, true Oct 19 20:34:30 208MHz Oct 19 20:34:33 if writing to the flash is a bottleneck, there is not much advantage of wifi n. Oct 19 20:34:53 trumee: unless you're not writing to flash Oct 19 20:35:10 trumee: more throughput = more speed if quality is degraded Oct 19 20:35:30 crashanddie: so streaming videos is the only usecase for wifi n? Oct 19 20:36:07 ... Oct 19 20:36:23 gmail regular ajax webpage sucks on N900. is it any better on N8? Oct 19 20:36:38 hah, i'd doubt it Oct 19 20:36:55 this isn't ##symbian Oct 19 20:37:13 who has an N8 in here anyways? Oct 19 20:37:29 anybody compared gmail ajax page between microb/firefox/opera on N900? Oct 19 20:37:30 * RST38h has touched N8 with his appendage Oct 19 20:37:41 Is this relevant? =) Oct 19 20:37:45 no :P Oct 19 20:38:10 MohammadAG: is cpu the bottleneck for gmail ajax? Oct 19 20:38:29 Poor N8 isn't getting any love from bloggers, let us say something good about it here, at least Oct 19 20:38:38 trumee: memory, not cpu Oct 19 20:39:35 I really don't know what gmail ajax is Oct 19 20:39:35 RST38h: ah, this is interesting. so ajax needs a lot of memory. more swap could be useful i guess Oct 19 20:39:47 RST38h, hardware is k, symbian is... Oct 19 20:39:55 MohammadAG: regular webpage on www.gmail.com, not the html version Oct 19 20:39:57 though the hardware is really similar to the N900's Oct 19 20:40:03 never used it Oct 19 20:40:06 trumee: No. Oct 19 20:40:07 modest is enough for me Oct 19 20:40:14 MohammadAG: you need to have a gmail account to understand the lingo :p Oct 19 20:40:23 I have a gmail account... Oct 19 20:40:30 trumee: It is not swap size that is a limiting factor. It is swap performance. Oct 19 20:40:30 it's tied to my maemo.org account Oct 19 20:40:53 MohammadAG: i use NM with gmail, but webpage is useful to carry out search on email. Oct 19 20:41:05 trumee: And yes, it has been discussed ad nauseam, and you can google it up Oct 19 20:41:15 * MohammadAG never searches his email Oct 19 20:41:17 greetings everyone Oct 19 20:41:24 RST38h: right, so guess we are stuck with slow performaing gmail webpage Oct 19 20:41:25 if an email gets lost, I don't look for it Oct 19 20:41:25 :P Oct 19 20:41:37 MohammadAG: you use imap for gmail or NM? Oct 19 20:41:42 trumee: Yes, continue suffering, there is no way out. Oct 19 20:41:43 i need some help with a nokia phone. is this the right place? Oct 19 20:41:43 NM Oct 19 20:42:02 MohammadAG: i think NM holds only a few days email. Oct 19 20:42:12 Cheaziz: is it the N900 or some other Maemo-based device? Oct 19 20:42:19 MohammadAG: plus gmail webpage has other interesting stuff as well like gtalk logs Oct 19 20:42:25 I read my email every morning Oct 19 20:42:31 It's a N71x Oct 19 20:42:36 and I never use gtalk outside the N900 :P Oct 19 20:42:46 Cheaziz, afraid not Oct 19 20:43:07 ~maemo Oct 19 20:43:08 [maemo] http://maemo.nokia.com/ http://maemo.org/ http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml Oct 19 20:43:13 Does anyone know where I can get its User Manual? I googled a lot before I came here. Oct 19 20:43:34 What IS maemo, if I may ask? Oct 19 20:43:40 links above :) Oct 19 20:43:43 lol Oct 19 20:44:18 Does N71x use it? Oct 19 20:44:24 nope Oct 19 20:44:28 LOL Oct 19 20:44:35 only the 770, N800, N810, and N900 use it Oct 19 20:44:43 Why cant I find the user manual for N71x? Oct 19 20:44:52 europe.nokia.com Oct 19 20:44:58 Lemme see. Oct 19 20:45:47 Ok, wondering, is it possible to use randr on the x11 server to increase the virtual desktop size? Oct 19 20:45:51 *scratch-head* Oct 19 20:46:17 xrandr works on the N900 I think Oct 19 20:46:33 MohammadAG: What is the website for Nokia US? Oct 19 20:46:49 nokia.com afaik, but I hate it Oct 19 20:47:01 MohammadAG: The question is can it be used to increase the virtual screen size, ... Oct 19 20:47:02 sigh @ wikipedia Oct 19 20:47:10 Apparently the N71x is the E71, only called so by AT&T. Oct 19 20:47:14 2x.2010.xx-xx Coming Soon (End of October or November 2010) PR1.3, Qt mobile, Updated Kernel to support Multiboot with MeeGO, bugs fix N900 Oct 19 20:47:22 Lemme see about E71. Oct 19 20:47:25 Qt mobile? multiboot? Oct 19 20:47:26 wtf Oct 19 20:48:18 123456 Oct 19 20:48:58 #$%^$^*@! Oct 19 20:49:01 Mohammed: only issue is that there seems no x11-server-utils in Extras/Testing. Oct 19 20:50:05 Package x11-server-utils can not be found in packages. Lookup in Provides failed too. Oct 19 20:50:27 Got it. Thanks MohammadAG. europe.nokia.com did it for me. I agree with you. NOKIA.COM sucks! Oct 19 20:50:33 bye all Oct 19 20:50:46 MohammadAG: well that's what provides xrandr on my Ubuntu box. Oct 19 20:51:24 Anyone got an idea what access control the X11 server on the n900 uses? Oct 19 20:52:05 "everyone's invited?" Oct 19 20:52:26 yacc: no X11 at all Oct 19 20:52:41 Corsac: ??? Oct 19 20:52:51 Corsac: the N900 clearly uses X11 Oct 19 20:54:40 yacc: from the top of my head it uses -notcp (or what it's called) and then since it's effectivly user and root, there's not more access control needed Oct 19 20:55:04 asj_: feared that. Oct 19 20:55:30 asj_: so no way to run remote X11 clients, so no cheap way to experiment with xrandr :( Oct 19 20:55:43 yacc: ssh Oct 19 20:55:45 ssh redirection Oct 19 20:56:01 asj_: no xauth binary either so, no working ssh -X Oct 19 20:56:13 what you'd need -X for, just use -Y Oct 19 20:56:31 asj_: and notcp means there is no port 6000 open to connect to either, so ssh does not work at all. Oct 19 20:56:55 yacc: that's not true, modern versions of sshd redirect to socket Oct 19 20:56:55 javispedro: notcp implies that the X11 server is only available via unix domain sockets, .. Oct 19 20:56:59 *unix socket Oct 19 20:57:52 yacc: try it; use -Y or install xauth and use -X Oct 19 20:57:58 javispedro: no such feature is mentioned in my host ssh manpage. Oct 19 20:58:12 -Y is "new" in the last 5 years I think ;) Oct 19 20:58:18 yacc: I'm for some reason predicting your questions, would you mind trying it? =) Oct 19 21:02:32 Wow, that must have been a rather sick thing to do, showing an xterm from my host on the N900 while my host shows a copy of the N900 via vnc. Oct 19 21:04:07 :) Oct 19 21:04:30 being it runs on Linux, it would be cool to have different users Oct 19 21:04:42 one user I could have as all my work foo, the other for my personal life Oct 19 21:05:01 and they wouldn't have to be logged in simultaneously, but I would like for them to have SSH ability Oct 19 21:05:50 wait, how do i get an xterm on the n900 from my host Oct 19 21:06:42 what should i set DISPLAY to? Oct 19 21:07:50 ssh should work Oct 19 21:08:02 it doesn't Oct 19 21:08:04 neither way Oct 19 21:08:21 it does here, did you read the above? Oct 19 21:08:52 basically use -Y instead of -X or install xauth first Oct 19 21:09:18 it works both directions, but you'll have more problems with server=desktop client=n900 apps Oct 19 21:09:29 because of maemo-launcher. Oct 19 21:09:40 (third party apps usually work fine) Oct 19 21:10:22 X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. Oct 19 21:10:26 I wonder what Nokia were thinking when they came up with meego touch framework Oct 19 21:10:26 fucker Oct 19 21:10:32 All this M classes make me feel dizzy Oct 19 21:10:42 hey, fapman worked Oct 19 21:10:50 this is cool Oct 19 21:11:00 oh shit i don't have a mouse cursor Oct 19 21:11:33 lol Oct 19 21:11:42 to be expected =) Oct 19 21:12:46 Well, setting a virtual desktop of 800x800, the allowed maximum immediatly just provoked a shutdown of the n900 :( Oct 19 21:13:04 ok, i assume os x is being a dickhead in this situation Oct 19 21:13:12 i can't get an xterm from my computer to the n900 Oct 19 21:13:16 what should i set DISPLAY to? Oct 19 21:13:30 ssh on n900 should set it for you Oct 19 21:13:41 if it doesn't, maybe you're using dropbear? Oct 19 21:14:07 ugh, dropbear Oct 19 21:14:08 as a server? Oct 19 21:14:12 I wish that didn't exist Oct 19 21:14:12 i... hope not Oct 19 21:14:18 kerio: you want a host-running xterm on the n900 or a n900-running xterm showing on the host? Oct 19 21:14:29 host-running xterm on the n900 Oct 19 21:14:57 this fucker isn't setting DISPLAY Oct 19 21:14:59 Well, on the n900 (you can either login per ssh or run it in the Xterm app), do: Oct 19 21:15:15 ssh -X yourhost xterm Oct 19 21:15:28 works great. Oct 19 21:15:44 well not here Oct 19 21:15:51 Although it's somehow sick to see a plain xterm on your box. Oct 19 21:15:57 ssh -X -Y yourhost xterm Oct 19 21:16:31 still doesn't work Oct 19 21:16:35 because there's no DISPLAY set Oct 19 21:16:36 wtf Oct 19 21:17:02 Then you have x11 forwarding disabled on your host's sshd_config. Oct 19 21:17:05 meh, fucking steve jobs Oct 19 21:17:10 it's the default nowadays. Oct 19 21:17:22 kerio: tread carefully Oct 19 21:17:36 crashanddie: wy? Oct 19 21:17:38 Why? Oct 19 21:17:59 because gratuitiously insulting people is really not a nice thing to do Oct 19 21:18:18 but it's fun! Oct 19 21:18:26 ... no, don't =) Oct 19 21:18:41 yay, it works Oct 19 21:18:41 then do it in /pm if you have to Oct 19 21:18:58 or go to /b/ Oct 19 21:19:20 crashanddie: but you have to admit that the forced closed nature of many offerings of the named person's company are irritating. Oct 19 21:19:38 no, they're not Oct 19 21:19:47 now if you wish to troll, go to #defocus Oct 19 21:20:02 hah, xeyes is awesome Oct 19 21:31:50 My /home (the 2gb partition still seems to jump in read only mode at times, but I haven't seen this happen to the (bigger) MyDocs partitions. Would it be feasible to swap these two? Making the 18GB ext3 and the 2GB FAT? Oct 19 21:32:03 It would hopefully work around my issues with the ro /home Oct 19 21:35:32 gitorious down? Oct 19 21:42:02 mff Oct 19 21:46:34 Wizzup: highly unlikely. Why should swapping two partitions on same physical device cure any unrelated problems with mounting properties you encounter on one of those 2 mounts Oct 19 21:47:10 Because the MyDocs partition had problems whereas the /home partition randomly jumps into RO mode Oct 19 21:47:33 I figured it would be worth the try, because I return it to the shop. Oct 19 21:47:36 also swapping those 2 is more likely to introduce more problems due to changed partition sequence and hence partition names on phy level Oct 19 21:47:57 I think maemo had a wiki page on how to do it, didn't mention those problems Oct 19 21:48:36 check man mount, for ext2/3 mount options Oct 19 21:49:09 What should I be looking for? I'm not sure what you mean. Oct 19 21:49:26 errors=continue / errors=remount-ro / errors=panic Oct 19 21:49:38 either way. Oct 19 21:49:54 then start to investigate your problem, starting there Oct 19 21:49:56 if random errors are being introduced in your ext3 partition I would try and guess the cause Oct 19 21:50:40 cause in this year-old n900 I'm yet to get such corruption on either the vfat or ext3 fs... Oct 19 21:50:43 it's lead you to dmesg, syslog, initscripts with mount commands, and maybe an explanation and solution for your problem Oct 19 21:51:11 DocScrutinizer I tried to alter the mount opts but I didn't succeed. Give me a few minutes to gather some data Oct 19 21:51:16 yup, javispedro Oct 19 21:51:48 wow, hard to believe it's been a year already. Oct 19 21:51:58 yeah Oct 19 21:52:31 * javispedro should bake a cacke for the n900 or sth Oct 19 21:52:32 where can i change the 'secure device' code? Oct 19 21:52:34 *cake Oct 19 21:52:48 err lockcode? Oct 19 21:53:33 i press the on/off button and choose 'secure device' Oct 19 21:53:53 android 3.0 screeshots leaked, look like meego handset Oct 19 21:54:12 bash: /usr/bin/qmake: cannot execute binary file Oct 19 21:54:13 wtf Oct 19 21:54:21 it's lock code, and you change it in settings - device_lock Oct 19 21:54:26 ahhh Oct 19 21:54:33 MohammadAG51: i386 <-> armel confusion Oct 19 21:54:39 default is 12345 Oct 19 21:55:09 javispedro, err... Oct 19 21:55:12 it's a chroot Oct 19 21:55:17 DocScrutinizer: If you're interested: http://paste.villavu.com/show/66/ line 248 and onwards Oct 19 21:56:22 javispedro: My n900 is a bit older than a year Oct 19 21:57:33 gotta love gentoo: Oct 19 21:57:35 :0: assertion failed: (gcc -dumpversion) | getline NEWVER) Oct 19 21:57:35 >>> Original instance of package unmerged safely. Oct 19 21:57:41 Wizzup: I think SpeedEvil mentioned a possibly corresponding ticket number here in this chan this afternoon (i.e. some 6..9h ago) Oct 19 21:58:03 javispedro, the package installed is armel Oct 19 21:58:11 the chroot is on an armel device Oct 19 21:58:14 leme grep chanlog, mompls Oct 19 21:58:29 MohammadAG51: check it with file, and also all of the needed .so Oct 19 21:58:31 files. Oct 19 21:59:10 err - what? Oct 19 21:59:11 * lardman|home hits the sack Oct 19 21:59:11 well done nokia Oct 19 21:59:13 /usr/bin/qmake: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped Oct 19 21:59:15 night chaps Oct 19 21:59:24 the armel package is for i386 Oct 19 21:59:31 how Oct 19 21:59:35 fucking retarded Oct 19 21:59:40 * SpeedEvil ponders. Oct 19 21:59:51 MohammadAG51: typical scratchboxism Oct 19 22:00:00 or classic. Oct 19 22:00:03 i guess i'll need to compile it by myself, somehow Oct 19 22:00:31 meh, sorry, that's been *completely* unrelated Oct 19 22:00:34 1700:14:00 - unlikely I think - I was outside and cutting hedgerts. Oct 19 22:00:39 ok Oct 19 22:00:43 I think it's just borked Oct 19 22:00:45 k Oct 19 22:01:28 [2010-10-19 15:21:25] That's clearly the worst bug. [2010-10-19 15:21:19] https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9826 Oct 19 22:01:29 Bug 9826: Blocks collision detection bug Oct 19 22:01:45 ah Oct 19 22:02:24 ok, that's one quite coffee spilling bug report. Oct 19 22:02:51 anyway, Wizzup, I think there's some bug in cache/ext2|3/sdio kernel drivers Oct 19 22:03:42 Wizzup: /home and Mydocs are separate partitions on same flash chip, swapping them is highly unlikely to fix your problem Oct 19 22:04:13 Isn't it possible the hardware just broke? Oct 19 22:04:24 Yeah, I guess swapping won't do much Oct 19 22:04:33 well, there was one story about emmc wearing out a few days ago iirc Oct 19 22:04:38 even here Oct 19 22:04:53 Wizzup: odds are your hw is broken, yes Oct 19 22:05:11 been playing with it for two days now Oct 19 22:05:24 The problem, that is Oct 19 22:05:55 there are 'good' and 'weak' flash chips, even when all are tested for proper performance when leaving the fab Oct 19 22:06:14 there's a certain percentage of early deaths Oct 19 22:07:12 it also could be a glitch in eMMC's bad blocj management, which might get fixed on a complete reflash Oct 19 22:07:39 DocScrutinizer: I have my doubts on that, as there's no erase operation involded, just overwrite of some blocks Oct 19 22:07:54 javispedro: there is always erases. Oct 19 22:07:59 javispedro: It's just they are hidden. Oct 19 22:08:03 or it's just some sw that spoiled the fs, the drivers, whatnot. Did you use backup-menu? Oct 19 22:08:18 javispedro: ack Oct 19 22:08:37 DocScrutinizer: I did two complete reflashes (including eMMC) Oct 19 22:08:44 SpeedEvil: touch, I was trying to mean higher-level erase func, like TRIM or the like Oct 19 22:08:54 each write is an implicit block erase (well, on buffer/cache miss) Oct 19 22:09:20 No, I did no backup restore Oct 19 22:09:44 Wizzup: try creating a file of maximal possible size on /home, eating up and rewriting all the free blocks Oct 19 22:10:17 I'll probably have to reboot the phone for that. Give me a few minutesd Oct 19 22:10:58 javispedro: you cannot do anything other than ordinary block operations on the emmc. The erases are hidden behind a curtain. Oct 19 22:11:12 dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/bigjunk bs=4M count=500 Oct 19 22:12:06 odds are your device will freeze on that operation. If that happens you ran into a known but yet unsoved bug Oct 19 22:13:34 lower your expectations anyway, it's probably a hw bug and no way to fix it on sw level Oct 19 22:13:52 I have no high expectations. :-) Oct 19 22:14:00 if you got any warranty I suggest you use it Oct 19 22:14:57 * javispedro ponders if there are going to be massive emmc failures Oct 19 22:15:05 if 2 complete reflashs, without restoring possibly rogue previously installed apps, doesn't help then that's all you can reasonably do as a user Oct 19 22:17:49 Wizzup: print out a uname -a and excerpts of some 2 or 3 syslogs, like the one you pastebined. Nokia service might be happy about it, and chances you won't get back an unfixed device with comment "no defects found" are better Oct 19 22:18:31 Thanks, will do Oct 19 22:19:49 Also - user steps to reproduce errors. Oct 19 22:20:10 Well, I don't seem to be able to get the fs as RW anymore, so I can't try the dd command. Oct 19 22:20:53 mount -o remount,rw fails? Oct 19 22:21:33 Wizzup: also, do you have a uSD card inserted? Oct 19 22:21:38 (guess no) Oct 19 22:21:39 * javispedro guesses.. if it's failing due to wearout, there's a >random chance that a ext3 journal block fails first Oct 19 22:21:51 DocScrutinizer: No Oct 19 22:21:58 thus instantly breaking after mount -o rw Oct 19 22:22:13 s/breaking/ext3_panicking Oct 19 22:22:21 I can't remount it; it claims the device is busy Oct 19 22:22:22 knew that, otherwise your eMMC would be /dev/mmcblk1 during boot afaik Oct 19 22:22:46 what's in syslog? Oct 19 22:24:06 Just a second Oct 19 22:25:18 meanwhile, who is savvy enough to find out what's ""error -84 transferring data""? Oct 19 22:25:57 Where is the syslog data saved it? Oct 19 22:26:13 -84 is ERRNO Oct 19 22:26:13 DocScrutinizer: the answer is probably google Oct 19 22:26:14 were was your last one from? Oct 19 22:26:23 DocScrutinizer: That was dmesg | python lodgeit.py Oct 19 22:26:27 (a paste script) Oct 19 22:26:37 heh, good enough Oct 19 22:26:53 -84 is an errno value * Oct 19 22:27:56 that's how much I thought, yes Oct 19 22:28:11 84 EILSEQ Illegal byte sequence Oct 19 22:28:33 the corresponding part of source code probably would tell us more Oct 19 22:28:41 ooh Oct 19 22:29:05 that's an interesting error Oct 19 22:29:10 that an endian issue? Oct 19 22:29:38 you'll never know without checking the source code Oct 19 22:30:05 endianess most likely not the rot cause Oct 19 22:30:11 not* Oct 19 22:30:17 err root* Oct 19 22:30:44 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/mmc/host/omap_hsmmc.c#650 Oct 19 22:30:57 status has DATA_CRC bit set => EILSEQ Oct 19 22:31:16 and one would guess DATA_CRC means controller detected CRC failure =) Oct 19 22:31:53 So what's this I hear about uh...a leak? Oct 19 22:32:02 yep, CRC failure Oct 19 22:32:24 CRC on bus Oct 19 22:32:31 yeah.. hum. Oct 19 22:32:50 aiui Oct 19 22:33:05 yes, because there's also CMD_CRC bit, so it has to be bus.. Oct 19 22:33:09 wtf is the purpose of that? Oct 19 22:33:55 there's no match for EILSEQ in ext3 driver, but a lot in mmc layer driver Oct 19 22:34:20 http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/MMC_Flash_Memory_Card_Support Oct 19 22:34:45 They also mention it there Oct 19 22:37:25 Wizzup: see javispedro^^^ - it may happen on MyDocs as well, it even may happen on swap partition Oct 19 22:38:04 Yeah, I'm already convinced about returning it. Just grabbing some more information so I can make a decent case Oct 19 22:42:19 either eMMC chip controller or SoC SDIO controller is flaky, or soldering is poor Oct 19 22:42:27 (my educated guess) Oct 19 22:42:50 you OC'd the device? Oct 19 22:44:46 though OC induced defects most likely won't show on a 'border' controller, rather somewhere in 'core' Oct 19 22:46:31 DocScrutinizer: Sorry, what is OC? Oct 19 22:46:37 no, no overclocking Oct 19 22:46:42 OverClocking Oct 19 22:46:53 :-) Oct 19 22:46:55 Had kernel for power users, but only for wifi hotspot Oct 19 22:47:04 Got rid of that quite awhile ago though Oct 19 22:47:23 Time for bed. Thanks for the help! Oct 19 22:47:32 any germans here? port this http://zdfmediathk.sourceforge.net/ Oct 19 22:47:32 errrr, and no overclocking though? Oct 19 22:48:16 pupnik: wtf would I need something related to ZDF mediathek? Oct 19 22:48:41 DocScrutinizer: no over clocking. It's disabled by default in power kernel afaik Oct 19 22:48:49 :nod: Oct 19 22:48:50 "Das Programm durchsucht die Mediathek verschiedener Sender (ARD, ZDF, Arte, 3Sat, MDR, NDR, ORF, SF" Oct 19 22:49:07 Wizzup: bad luck, bad chip Oct 19 22:49:15 get a replacement Oct 19 22:49:25 Do you know if nokia is thinking about replacing the N900 by a new phone. What is the estimated lifetime of the N900? Oct 19 22:49:28 The only ``weird'' thing I ever did on my phone was writing a python app that reads from microphone and writes (every x seconds) the sound. but only if the sound was loud enough (in samples of seconds) Oct 19 22:49:32 pupnik: aah, hmm. Oct 19 22:50:00 oh noo.. it's java? Oct 19 22:50:05 Wizzup: sounds not very weird :-D, even sounds useful Oct 19 22:50:19 pupnik: lol Oct 19 22:51:14 Wizzup: So it worked like an echo? Oct 19 22:51:36 DocScrutinizer: Yeah, and it didn't write *that* often. So I don't think it could have worn the flash out Oct 19 22:51:43 worked like a VOX recorder aiui Oct 19 22:52:00 Freak5: No, it would like... record only sounds (in samples of 1 second) when the sound was louder than an X Oct 19 22:52:10 Say if you were speaking, it would record it. If it is silent, it wouldn't Oct 19 22:52:16 Wizzup: those writes should go to cache anyway Oct 19 22:52:18 I was looking for a VOX for maemo but couldn't find it Oct 19 22:52:28 * Wizzup really afk now :-) Oct 19 22:52:55 * DocScrutinizer waves Oct 19 22:52:59 Ah, cool, for some reason I missunderstood it and thought you was writing it to the speacer...(no clue why) Oct 19 23:08:16 asdf Oct 19 23:54:18 im having serious problems getting this skype quality legible Oct 19 23:54:42 even with a new flashed device, wifi power saving settings off at 100MHz, its still cutting out constantly Oct 19 23:54:50 yet works fine form a laptop on the same lan Oct 19 23:55:54 100mW you mean Oct 19 23:56:00 hmm Oct 19 23:56:08 er, yes. Oct 19 23:56:15 Sorry - never played with skype Oct 19 23:56:25 So I don't have anything helpful to say. Oct 19 23:56:27 im dropping back to the non power kernel to see if that makes a difference Oct 19 23:56:35 somehow. Oct 19 23:57:48 obsidieth, the 10mW/100mW setting isn't for power saving. :) Oct 19 23:58:08 that was a separate point Oct 19 23:58:16 the power saving setting is turned off, and its set at 100mW Oct 19 23:58:20 Ah Oct 19 23:58:45 i assume thats the most skype friendly configuration Oct 19 23:58:50 others have suggested power saving might hurt my quality. Oct 19 23:58:59 Depends on your router. Oct 19 23:59:16 its a pretty shoddy dlink. Oct 19 23:59:24 running wpa psk. Oct 19 23:59:37 dsl g604t Oct 20 00:00:12 Power Saving should not hurt link quality at all. Oct 20 00:00:30 All it does is sleep-cycle after confirmation with the route. Oct 20 00:00:30 not link quality, but latency Oct 20 00:00:37 latency, hell yes. Oct 20 00:00:39 what happens Oct 20 00:00:55 is the quality itself is alright, but it drops out every 3/4 seconds for a moment Oct 20 00:00:59 its impossible to actually converse. Oct 20 00:00:59 the router buffers packets when the device is "asleep". Oct 20 00:01:02 high latency => stuttering voip Oct 20 00:01:07 Yes. Oct 20 00:01:42 ill be damned Oct 20 00:01:48 it seems to be the power kernel Oct 20 00:02:00 even clocked at 1GHz, something in it doesnt play nice with skype. Oct 20 00:02:13 it has nothing to do with cpu frequency Oct 20 00:02:47 i thought it might have been pegging the cpu, apparently not Oct 20 00:03:01 should i raise a bug report about this or something? id imagine its nto difficult to reproduce. Oct 20 00:04:25 I do believe there already is one. Oct 20 00:05:03 i wasnt able to google it, could you point me in the right direction? Oct 20 00:07:34 Gimme a sec. Oct 20 00:08:03 I'm not actually sure it's the same issue. Oct 20 00:08:32 But some people are having problems with DD-WRT and the power-kernel. Oct 20 00:09:59 1GHz? So, uh, how long were you planning on using you N900 for? Oct 20 00:15:03 just testing if it would change the quality Oct 20 00:15:08 maybe it couldnt play the audio smoothly i thought Oct 20 00:15:12 ill stick with the standard kernel now Oct 20 00:18:49 ... Oct 20 00:19:11 There's a pulseaudio patch that corrects procpegging. Oct 20 00:20:19 it actually wasnt too bad. little bit high i suppose, just ruling audio decoding out as a source of the stutter Oct 20 00:25:55 hm Oct 20 00:26:12 I think I might patch the double-safety for delete out of Modest. Oct 20 00:26:47 bah, N810 battery starting to really wear out now Oct 20 00:27:08 5hour long charging times, <1500mAh top capacity Oct 20 00:29:07 I have about 7 BP-4Ls in my drawer here. Oct 20 00:38:11 hah, you think Maemo packagers are sloppy with the bugzilla link? see what packagers do on WebOS! Oct 20 00:38:21 Maintainer: N/A Description: This is a webOS application. Oct 20 00:38:39 oh and finally Oct 20 00:38:50 how do you guys do for battery when running a 3g connection + internet Oct 20 00:39:01 completely self-descriptive! i'm going to email this nobody guy to complain about a bug.. Oct 20 00:39:27 Hahah Oct 20 00:39:31 ~tell obsidieth about omap-oc Oct 20 00:40:08 ~ping Oct 20 00:40:08 ~pong Oct 20 00:40:11 obsidieth: i do about a 6, maybe a 6.5 Oct 20 00:40:46 hm. do you listen to music while doing so Oct 20 00:40:54 sometimes ill use 3g on the train while listening to some tunes Oct 20 00:41:03 perhaps Oct 20 00:41:04 and be on 60% battery by the time i get to work Oct 20 00:41:08 not sure if its typicval Oct 20 00:41:13 obsidieth: 7h on 3G with IRC, mostly locked screen: battery @ 70% Oct 20 00:41:55 mmmm, burmese food is good Oct 20 00:42:28 hmm. ill seehow i do on the stock kernel instead. Oct 20 00:45:40 anyone using the facebook chat plugin for conversations? Oct 20 00:47:10 Yes. Oct 20 00:47:41 does your list all your offline contacts Oct 20 00:47:44 if you go new im Oct 20 00:47:51 it seems to show my entire friend list Oct 20 00:47:55 as opposed to those whore online Oct 20 00:48:55 impressive what a missing apostrophe can do Oct 20 00:49:06 mm Oct 20 00:50:01 lol Oct 20 00:55:24 hmm looks like its been asked a few times without an answer. Oct 20 00:56:23 obsidieth: 3G (also 2G) is dynamically attenuating TX power, depending on how much shouting is needed to let the tower hear what you say. This means you can have a variation about factor 30 in the power the modem is using _for same data traffic_. Of course the amount of data also is extremely relevant, basically you get a per-byte power consumption, plus a penalty for each start of a transmission block Oct 20 00:58:28 a completely idle 3G data connection could run from a charged battery for ~300+ hours Oct 20 00:58:47 for the modem only Oct 20 01:03:20 see http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#2G_data.2C_short_pings courtesy SpeedEvil Oct 20 01:03:44 gotcha Oct 20 01:16:48 also my nano is segfaulting pretty badly. Oct 20 01:16:51 when yo utry and search Oct 20 01:17:23 .oO(vim wfm...) Oct 20 01:17:29 :) Oct 20 01:18:00 that wouldnt be efnet nox would it. Oct 20 01:18:39 well i have more -s there... Oct 20 01:20:01 heh, maybe not then. Oct 20 01:20:06 :) Oct 20 01:41:50 whats the biggest microsd you can put in the n900 16 or 32gb? Oct 20 01:41:50 there are 32gb microsd cards? Oct 20 01:41:50 huh, that's new Oct 20 01:41:50 i thought there were, maybe i was wrong Oct 20 01:41:50 nah, just looked, there are Oct 20 01:41:51 i dunno... i imagine a 32gb would work, but don't take that as any kind of authoritive answer Oct 20 01:41:51 looks like the top out at class 4 now though, that's pretty damn slow Oct 20 01:41:51 how slow is that Oct 20 01:41:51 well, they go up to class 10 Oct 20 01:41:51 i don't have specific io figures for you though Oct 20 01:41:52 obsidieth: there is a nano update which fixes that iirc Oct 20 01:41:54 good ol' reliable freenode Oct 20 01:41:54 hmm. well i just isntalled it today cehteh Oct 20 01:41:54 the update isnt in the repository? Oct 20 01:41:54 for those of us who had any nostalgia for efnet Oct 20 01:41:54 or: stupid kids? Oct 20 01:41:54 maybe devel or testing Oct 20 01:41:54 nano-opt is the package name Oct 20 01:41:54 ah. ok Oct 20 02:00:26 riiiight. Oct 20 02:18:43 iirc 32G were tested and worked. And yes, of course there are 32G, since almost half a year Oct 20 02:20:04 afaik class == MB/s Oct 20 02:53:50 hello swc|666 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 20 02:59:56 2010