**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 29 02:59:57 2010
Oct 29 03:00:07 <raster> 1F458;KIMONO;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;
Oct 29 03:00:10 <raster> will that do?
Oct 29 03:00:14 <raster> or to distract you
Oct 29 03:00:20 <raster> 1F459;BIKINI;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;
Oct 29 03:00:20 <raster> 1F45A;WOMANS CLOTHES;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;
Oct 29 03:00:30 * DocScrutinizer also feels temped to /kick, still :-/
Oct 29 03:01:20 <raster> aaah there it is!
Oct 29 03:01:23 <raster> i knew it'd be there
Oct 29 03:01:27 <raster> here u do DocScrutinizer ...
Oct 29 03:01:31 <raster> 1F363;SUSHI;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;
Oct 29 03:01:37 <raster> some sushi for you
Oct 29 03:01:37 <raster> :)
Oct 29 03:02:44 <ds3> is raster encoding everything as a .HEX file? ;)
Oct 29 03:02:59 <raster> no
Oct 29 03:03:05 <raster> it's just entires from the unicode standard
Oct 29 03:03:10 <raster> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt
Oct 29 03:03:11 <ds3> S16?
Oct 29 03:03:12 <ds3> :D
Oct 29 03:03:13 <DocScrutinizer> how dull can you be, to go foggy like ""<djszapi> mmh, I am not sure you know I would not like to use maemo5""   ""<djszapi> any idea ?"" ""<djszapi> just because you do not have the faintest idea :)""
Oct 29 03:06:08 <DocScrutinizer> and then spam me in a query and tell about harmattan waiting since months to get flashed to his device
Oct 29 03:06:31 <DocScrutinizer> **SIGH**
Oct 29 03:07:15 * raster hands DocScrutinizer a cookie
Oct 29 03:07:48 <raster> cheer up. unicdeo has cookies
Oct 29 03:07:54 <raster> 1F36A;COOKIE;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;
Oct 29 03:07:56 <raster> ooh
Oct 29 03:07:59 <raster> and doughnuts
Oct 29 03:08:03 <raster> 1F369;DOUGHNUT;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;
Oct 29 03:08:06 <raster> :)
Oct 29 03:08:37 <raster> it's got candy too
Oct 29 03:08:51 <DocScrutinizer> raster image was yesterday, now we get unicode image :-D
Oct 29 03:09:06 <raster> hehehe
Oct 29 03:11:26 <DocScrutinizer> RGB raster image has problems with turquoise, Unicode image has problems with large hotdogs
Oct 29 03:13:34 <raster> hahaha
Oct 29 03:13:36 <DocScrutinizer> o/ zzzZZZzzz
Oct 29 04:19:41 <DocScrutinizer> please can somebody with a PR1.3 with stock kernel run powertop, on a device hooked up to walcharger and screen locked
Oct 29 04:20:28 <DocScrutinizer> and post the corresponding values to those of a stock PR1.2 here:
Oct 29 04:20:32 <DocScrutinizer>      C0 |  25.4% |          |   600 MHz |  39.2% |
Oct 29 04:20:33 <DocScrutinizer>      C1 |   0.2% |    0.1ms |   550 MHz |   4.2% |
Oct 29 04:20:35 <DocScrutinizer>      C2 |   4.9% |    6.5ms |   500 MHz |   1.3% |
Oct 29 04:20:36 <DocScrutinizer>      C3 |  37.1% |  146.7ms |   250 MHz |  55.2% |
Oct 29 04:20:38 <DocScrutinizer>      C4 |  32.4% |  607.5ms |
Oct 29 04:25:12 <DocScrutinizer> (above values from a PR1.2 with xchat and a xterm active, powertop via ssh+WLAN)
Oct 29 04:29:49 <nox-> DocScrutinizer, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282963/
Oct 29 04:30:09 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: :-) thnx
Oct 29 04:30:28 <nox-> is the segfault to be expected?
Oct 29 04:30:50 <DocScrutinizer> no, LOL at segfault
Oct 29 04:30:59 <nox-> hehe
Oct 29 04:31:04 * nox- only just installed it
Oct 29 04:31:30 <Termana> nox-, you're suppose to run it as root
Oct 29 04:31:35 <nox-> oh
Oct 29 04:31:51 <DocScrutinizer> I'm getting similar insane values here, with a tweaked PR1.3 hostmode kernel (esp 100% @ 500MHz)
Oct 29 04:32:19 <DocScrutinizer> only while on charger
Oct 29 04:33:08 <DocScrutinizer> C1 |  98.8% |  262.7ms |   550 MHz |   0.0% |
Oct 29 04:33:37 <DocScrutinizer>  C2 |   0.0% |    0.1ms |   500 MHz | 100.0% |
Oct 29 04:33:59 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, what is the last Ratio column about? The first one is obvious, but the last one doesn't seem to fit in with any of the values at all
Oct 29 04:34:23 <DocScrutinizer> where?
Oct 29 04:34:48 <DocScrutinizer> aah, it's % of cpu@<freq>
Oct 29 04:35:06 <DocScrutinizer> of the active (c0..c3?) state
Oct 29 04:35:49 <DocScrutinizer> basically aiui cols 1..3 are unrelated to col4,5
Oct 29 04:36:10 <Termana> Oh I see now, thanks. I'd wondered for quite some time what it was about
Oct 29 04:36:32 <nox-> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282965/
Oct 29 04:36:35 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, twisted
Oct 29 04:37:42 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: this was with screen black?
Oct 29 04:37:49 <nox-> no
Oct 29 04:38:01 <DocScrutinizer> I can tell from powertop
Oct 29 04:38:15 <DocScrutinizer> too much gfx
Oct 29 04:38:28 <nox-> ah hm
Oct 29 04:39:54 <ebzzry> Hi! Is curl available, in any form, in Fremantle?
Oct 29 04:44:43 <DocScrutinizer> compare yours to a PR1.2 system, on wallcharger, with nothing but ssh session running, locked screen: http://pastebin.com/aYbMRGcQ
Oct 29 04:45:30 <nox-> next try with a sleep 40 in front:  http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282967/
Oct 29 04:45:50 <nox-> wow
Oct 29 04:45:52 <DocScrutinizer> the most annoying thing is it spins cpu for nothing, and thus burns quite large amounts of power
Oct 29 04:46:09 <nox-> indeed
Oct 29 04:46:44 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, well isn't that a side effect of having userspace charging (BME)
Oct 29 04:46:50 <DocScrutinizer> which in turn causes charging of battery never trips the charge end current threshold
Oct 29 04:47:04 <ieatlint> ebzzry: i believe libcurl is a stock library, and curl i think is in the repos
Oct 29 04:47:09 <ieatlint> extras or extras-devel
Oct 29 04:47:16 <DocScrutinizer> Termana: PR1.2 also has "userspace charging"
Oct 29 04:47:23 <ebzzry> ieatlint: OK
Oct 29 04:47:41 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, was yours PR 1.2 or 1.3?
Oct 29 04:47:48 <nox-> oh well mine still got the green leds
Oct 29 04:48:03 <DocScrutinizer> [2010-10-29 06:40:24] <DocScrutinizer> compare yours to a PR1.2 system, on wallcharger, with nothing but ssh session running, locked screen: http://pastebin.com/aYbMRGcQ
Oct 29 04:48:15 <nox-> so it did know (or think?) when it was fully charged
Oct 29 04:48:16 <Termana> Oh righto.
Oct 29 04:48:56 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: LED goes green, but it never stops pulling current from charger
Oct 29 04:49:09 <nox-> ah
Oct 29 04:49:22 <DocScrutinizer> and so keeps battery floating at max voltage, which is killing batteries
Oct 29 04:49:31 <nox-> eww
Oct 29 04:49:52 <nox-> `na da hamse uns ja n ei ins nest gelegt...'  :P
Oct 29 04:50:14 <DocScrutinizer> also cpu spinning void @ 500MHz which doesn't exactly meet Nokias own recommendations
Oct 29 04:50:14 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, so, good time for jrbme then? :p
Oct 29 04:50:36 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: yep
Oct 29 04:50:56 * nox- unplugs charger
Oct 29 04:51:37 <nox-> and i was just getting used to simply letting it plugged on charger overnight... :(
Oct 29 04:52:04 <Termana> nox-, you can always.... downgrade! DUN DA DAAAA
Oct 29 04:52:10 <Termana> :p
Oct 29 04:52:42 <DocScrutinizer> I'm doing this all the time, but then I don't care much about LiIon deteriorating, I just buy a new one when I found out how fast it will age
Oct 29 04:53:05 <DocScrutinizer> but CPU aging @ 500MHz isn't exactly irrelevant to me
Oct 29 04:53:23 <nox-> yeah at least this isnt apple where you cant easily change batteries...
Oct 29 04:53:36 <flux> does anyone know why it ups the MHz when USB is connected?
Oct 29 04:53:50 <flux> (whatever the reason must be, I doubt they are releavent when charging only?)
Oct 29 04:53:52 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Oct 29 04:54:22 <DocScrutinizer> also it seems doesn't happen like that on PR1.2
Oct 29 04:55:36 <DocScrutinizer> aah, and the "PR1.3" values I got here are - as mentioned above - on a hostmode kernel based on PR1.3, but rootfs still is pr1.1.1 (yes!)
Oct 29 04:56:15 <nox-> ah well i at least did a `normal' upgrade
Oct 29 04:56:22 <DocScrutinizer> so this is clearly a kernel thing, not caused by rootfs system components, like e.g bme
Oct 29 04:56:33 <nox-> (after manually upgrading perl that it didnt like)
Oct 29 04:56:58 <DocScrutinizer> nox-: my figures on 1.3 kernel are same as yours
Oct 29 04:57:02 <nox-> ok
Oct 29 05:01:50 <nox-> without charger:  http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282974/
Oct 29 05:10:34 <DocScrutinizer> same as before, but with title, so nobody gets confused :-)   http://pastebin.com/QSHS6u3g
Oct 29 05:11:45 <Termana> Ha. Ha.
Oct 29 05:11:57 <Termana> It was so funny you made nox- quit
Oct 29 05:11:58 <Termana> :p
Oct 29 05:17:37 <ebzzry> ieatlint: Do you have it confirmed that 'curl' exists on extras-devel?
Oct 29 05:19:40 <ieatlint> uh, no, i'd need to look it up
Oct 29 05:21:28 <ebzzry> ieatlint: OK
Oct 29 05:23:29 <ebzzry> I don't think it is present in any of the extras- repos. Has anyone written a working binary of curl for Fremantle?
Oct 29 05:23:59 <ieatlint> looks like you may be right... thought it was, but appears to be just libcurl
Oct 29 05:24:09 <ebzzry> It is also listed at http://curl.haxx.se/download.html that curl only exists in Maemo 5 as a library, and not a binary.
Oct 29 05:24:38 <ieatlint> there should be no reason someone can't compile curl for arm...
Oct 29 05:25:20 <ebzzry> ieatlint: that's a bold statement
Oct 29 05:25:53 <ieatlint> no, i'm just using the standard geek definition of "should work" which differs from "will work"
Oct 29 05:27:15 <ieatlint> giving it a quick try right now
Oct 29 05:28:19 <ruskie> ebzzry, I have it in my own repo
Oct 29 05:29:03 <ruskie> http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Repositories#ruskie
Oct 29 05:29:05 <ebzzry> ruskie: Where is your repo?
Oct 29 05:29:07 * Jucato bumps ruskie
Oct 29 05:29:08 <ebzzry> ruskie: Going
Oct 29 05:29:11 <Jucato> >:)
Oct 29 05:29:16 <ruskie> :)
Oct 29 05:29:21 <ieatlint> there you go, simpler even :)
Oct 29 05:30:07 <ieatlint> and it did compile without issue in scratchbox
Oct 29 05:30:10 <Jenna> Hiyall. I flashed my N900 with the PR 1.3 firware (global). I flashed it without restarting or pressing "U" . But nevertheless the firmware got updated. (Shows in the about box in the settings). Anyway my question is should I re-flash it  or I dont need to. ?
Oct 29 05:31:11 <ruskie> ieatlint, exactly what my package is ;) just a compile in the scratchbox ;)
Oct 29 05:31:40 <ieatlint> cool
Oct 29 05:31:47 <ebzzry> ruskie: Thanks. I'll test it as soon as I get back from the meeting
Oct 29 05:34:27 <Jenna> u guyz ? n900 no /
Oct 29 05:34:28 <Jenna> ?
Oct 29 05:34:51 <ruskie> if it works don't see any reason why reflash
Oct 29 05:34:55 <ruskie> did you reboot it yet?
Oct 29 05:35:45 <ebzzry> ruskie: BTW, what should I put under "Distribution" and "Components"? Where should I put "opt"?
Oct 29 05:36:10 <ruskie> lemme check
Oct 29 05:36:21 <ruskie> components is blank
Oct 29 05:36:32 <ruskie> opt/ goes under distribution
Oct 29 05:37:11 <ebzzry> ruskie: FAM doesn't like it that way.
Oct 29 05:37:30 <ruskie> https://repo.codemages.net/ and opt/
Oct 29 05:37:34 <ruskie> note the https://
Oct 29 05:37:49 <ebzzry> ruskie: URL: https://repo.codemages.net, Distribution: opt, Components: <blank>
Oct 29 05:37:54 <ruskie> opt/
Oct 29 05:37:56 <ruskie> not opt
Oct 29 05:38:06 <Jenna> ruskie, yeah. I did reboot it & installed lots of software as well. It works. fine. but I did expereinced once bloated graphics when I minimize/maximize the running application. only once.
Oct 29 05:38:10 <ebzzry> ruskie: Gah. That tripped me.
Oct 29 05:38:35 <ruskie> Jenna, sounds like no issue then
Oct 29 05:38:56 <slonopotamus> slonopotamus_: leave me alone
Oct 29 05:39:37 <RobbieThe1st> hi all
Oct 29 05:39:38 <Jenna> ruskie, was just concerned since the official documentation at maemo.org said "You ought to reboot the device & press "U"  thats all. Dont know why would they say something like that. If it works the other way as well.
Oct 29 05:39:51 <ruskie> Jenna, because sometime it doesn't
Oct 29 05:39:52 <Jenna> hey RobbieThe1st
Oct 29 05:40:07 <ruskie> Jenna, specifically U forces it to some specific mode
Oct 29 05:40:08 <Jenna> ruskie, okay. I guess no harm done.
Oct 29 05:40:49 <Jenna> ruskie, IC. Btw I didn't flashed eMMC thing. whatever that is. Is it okay. ?
Oct 29 05:40:54 <RobbieThe1st> ...Y'know, I'm still not sure why they have that in the documentation: I find it easier and better to set the Flasher to "waiting", then reboot the device. It'll automaticly start and flash easily
Oct 29 05:40:58 <RobbieThe1st> Yea
Oct 29 05:41:12 <RobbieThe1st> eMMC flashing is (more or less) optional.
Oct 29 05:41:18 <ruskie> RobbieThe1st, I had to atleast once or twice use the U trick
Oct 29 05:41:28 <ruskie> Jenna, emmc is your data on the device ;)
Oct 29 05:41:38 <RobbieThe1st> Really? why?
Oct 29 05:41:51 <ruskie> because flasher didn't pick it up otherwise
Oct 29 05:41:55 <ruskie> it can happen
Oct 29 05:42:20 <Jenna> ruskie, I had the data all backed up. Would I gain anything positive in flashing eMMC thing ?
Oct 29 05:42:21 <RobbieThe1st> emmc wise, not quite: Its two things: 1, your MyDocs folder/partition, and 2, your /home/ and /opt/ folders.
Oct 29 05:43:54 <RobbieThe1st>  /home has your user profile on it - all program configuration etc. /opt has 3rd-party programs in it, mainly.
Oct 29 05:44:06 <Jenna> oh and the GasBalls hanged on me once too. Is that normal. (I had to pkill them)  ?
Oct 29 05:44:49 <RobbieThe1st> Probably
Oct 29 05:44:58 <Jenna> RobbieThe1st, but If you do a backup & then restore after flashing. Shouldn't everything be okay ?
Oct 29 05:45:05 <RobbieThe1st> Yes.
Oct 29 05:46:04 <RobbieThe1st> at least, "ok" to the point at which you installed everything - If there's a glitch in a program, it's not (usually) going to fix that
Oct 29 05:46:58 <RobbieThe1st> What I -will- say though is that, because you didn't flash the eMMC, when you restore your programs, you may find that settings you set before -didn't- get erased. Savegames being one example
Oct 29 05:48:21 <Jenna> and another thing that I noticed was that When I log onto OVI account it shows that I have downloaded some of the applications which were installed before flashing the new Firmware (and are removed after flashing ofcourse). Shouldn't the cookies be removed after flashing. ?
Oct 29 05:49:13 <Jenna> hmm. IC.
Oct 29 05:50:29 <Jenna> Anyway I wonder If anyone has ever cloned the whole n900 filesystem with clonezilla & restored it ala Ghost.
Oct 29 05:50:39 <ruskie> should be possible
Oct 29 05:50:44 <RobbieThe1st> Heh, funny you should mention that
Oct 29 05:50:53 <RobbieThe1st> 's sort of what I'm doing with BackupMenu
Oct 29 05:51:33 <RobbieThe1st> Only, for safety reasons, I do backups and restores with most of the OS not running
Oct 29 05:52:39 <Jenna> RobbieThe1st, is there a how-to doc in the offing ? :)
Oct 29 05:53:05 <RobbieThe1st> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=844029# Would that be helpful?
Oct 29 05:55:08 <RobbieThe1st> ... t.m.o's down again.
Oct 29 05:55:33 <Jenna> yeah. was wondering what it is taking ages to open
Oct 29 05:55:52 <RobbieThe1st> Give it a few minutes
Oct 29 05:55:56 <Jenna> it been flaky since yesteraday
Oct 29 05:56:09 <Jenna> its*
Oct 29 05:56:19 <RobbieThe1st> Longer than that - It's been going off and on for a couple months now, though usually only at a specific time
Oct 29 05:58:27 <Jenna> its running on rhel5. not sure whats the issue with them ?
Oct 29 05:59:06 <Jenna> Anyway care to suggest/share you novel/best apps for n900 ?
Oct 29 05:59:06 <Termana> Yes, cause RedHat makes it absolutely fault proof
Oct 29 05:59:07 <Termana> not
Oct 29 05:59:09 <Termana> :p
Oct 29 06:00:13 <Appiah> Jenna: the media player :)
Oct 29 06:00:37 <Jenna> Termana, the repository.maemo.org is running of debian . and its been like that as well.
Oct 29 06:00:50 <Jenna> Appiah, check. what else ?
Oct 29 06:01:00 <Appiah> Whatever you need
Oct 29 06:01:36 <Appiah> Dont install a bunch of apps just because... install when needed
Oct 29 06:01:49 <Jenna> I don't know the novelty kinda apps. e.g n900fly or angleometer etc.. they are nice & usefull
Oct 29 06:01:58 <psycho_oreos> I generally suggest some powersaving stuff like autodisconnect and some widgets like dataplan monitor, 3g/2g switcher
Oct 29 06:02:44 <Appiah> flashlight is usefull
Oct 29 06:03:11 <psycho_oreos> ssh switcher and status viewer is useful if you use ssh a fair amount
Oct 29 06:03:34 <psycho_oreos> load applet that can take screenshots and video recording comes in very handy
Oct 29 06:04:07 * ruskie just runs ssh all the time
Oct 29 06:04:36 <Jenna> yeah I have all those. but I think have more apps shouldn't matter as long as those are not always (read backgroud) running kinda tasks. I think widgets come in that category. (hence eating up ur battery)
Oct 29 06:04:41 * psycho_oreos is paranoid and uses mobile broadband nearly all of the time.. the last thing he wants is to leave ssh open on n900
Oct 29 06:04:42 <DocScrutinizer> simple brightness applet and load applet
Oct 29 06:04:58 <ruskie> psycho_oreos, you actually have open ports on that mobile connection?
Oct 29 06:05:01 <Jucato> new app: N900Bounce - measures how hard the N900 bounces off a hard surface (like a floor) :D
Oct 29 06:05:12 <ruskie> psycho_oreos, as in incoming?
Oct 29 06:05:24 <psycho_oreos> ruskie, well if you ran sshd for instance it would be declared as open otherwise I believe it will be filtered
Oct 29 06:05:32 <Jenna> Jucato, no thanx. :) I'll give that a pass.
Oct 29 06:05:45 <ruskie> psycho_oreos, not what I'm talking about ;)
Oct 29 06:06:03 <ruskie> psycho_oreos, I can't directly connect to my n900 over the internet...
Oct 29 06:06:15 <ruskie> the cellco has all INCOMING ports blocked
Oct 29 06:06:25 <Jenna> for sshd you can always hasve fail2ban or denyhost running.
Oct 29 06:06:40 <psycho_oreos> Jenna, most of the apps are really based on personal preferences.. there aren't much else for apps to recommend apart from general things such as widgets and stuff like maybe categorise for example
Oct 29 06:07:05 <psycho_oreos> ruskie, heh I haven't tried that but I'm a little paranoid as always
Oct 29 06:07:25 <DocScrutinizer> apmefo
Oct 29 06:07:37 <ruskie> psycho_oreos, well I'm paranoid as well... just give it a try ;)
Oct 29 06:07:53 <Jenna> psycho_oreos, I seem to suffer from bad battery life. simple wifi (Adhoc mode) runs it dry after ~1.5 hours.
Oct 29 06:07:57 <ruskie> anyway I generally need to establish a vpn connection to my home network from it before I can ssh in over 3g
Oct 29 06:08:08 <ruskie> Jenna, adhoc is not simple wifi
Oct 29 06:08:09 <psycho_oreos> categorise is less work than apmefo if and when it works. For me it has always worked until I removed it to try out apmefo.. then removed that and reinstalled categorise which fails to work
Oct 29 06:08:14 <ruskie> it's the most power hungry of all modes
Oct 29 06:08:33 * ruskie has a new kernel built and is scping the modules and it to the device atm...
Oct 29 06:08:38 <psycho_oreos> ruskie, I'll do it when me quota resets :) right now I ran a nice bit of bill on mobile broadband
Oct 29 06:08:49 <ruskie> what's your limit?
Oct 29 06:09:16 <ruskie> and how much is it costing you
Oct 29 06:09:42 <psycho_oreos> Jenna, hmm one can enable stuff like powersaving mode, and using stuff like autodisconnect, minor tweaks such as making brightness to as low as possible + backlight/screen timeouts
Oct 29 06:09:42 <Guest77323> what's the deal with talk.maemo? it's up, it's down.
Oct 29 06:10:24 <Jenna> psycho_oreos, I always make sure to tone down the cpufrequency
Oct 29 06:10:25 <psycho_oreos> ruskie, puny, 7GB and AUD$49 a month.. right now I've pretty much racked up roughly 5 times that amount
Oct 29 06:10:42 <psycho_oreos> Jenna, using titan's kernel?
Oct 29 06:10:59 <ruskie> Jenna, adhoc wifi is power hungry... simple as that
Oct 29 06:11:03 <ruskie> always was always will be
Oct 29 06:11:38 <ruskie> psycho_oreos, hmm ouch... I pay 10eur for 2gb but I could be paying 18eur for 20gb
Oct 29 06:11:46 <Jenna> ruskie, In PR 1.2  there was a bug that any certificates used to work/even if they are expired (I think). Besides I haven't checked-up if this new firmware has WPA-2 support added.
Oct 29 06:11:57 <ruskie> Jenna, it's Adhoc wifi
Oct 29 06:12:09 <ruskie> it behaves differently than in managed mode
Oct 29 06:12:13 <Jenna> Guest77323, Its been like that for quite some time
Oct 29 06:12:25 <psycho_oreos> ruskie, where I live is basically the land of oligopolies' paradise.. all there to milk money out of consumers
Oct 29 06:12:55 <Jenna> psycho_oreos, no. the plain kernel. it that (titan kerne) any good on battery etc.. ?
Oct 29 06:12:55 <ruskie> psycho_oreos, well not that different here... though atleast here we have some regulators that will step on their fingers
Oct 29 06:13:56 <Guest77323> I know. ever since 1.3 a few days ago the website goes offline sometimes. Just looking for why, I guess.
Oct 29 06:14:05 <psycho_oreos> Jenna, hmm titan's kernel imo won't be that much more of power saving imo (since it doesn't have 128MHz clock for phone calls or something) but I get around 10 or so hours usage (no adhoc)
Oct 29 06:14:26 <psycho_oreos> ruskie, which is good, here the regulator is quite lax about it all
Oct 29 06:14:33 <Jenna> ruskie, Im using ubuntu 10.04 to with my n900. not sure which doesnot support which. I guess I need to digg deep a little more.
Oct 29 06:14:35 <Guest77323> can't seem to find the twitter status  for it either. I thought htey had an account
Oct 29 06:15:08 <ruskie> psycho_oreos, of course there's only 2mio of us and we have 2 real and 3 or 4 virtual cellcos ;)
Oct 29 06:16:00 <ruskie> now to see what I can break(with my own build of the kernel)
Oct 29 06:16:27 <psycho_oreos> ruskie, out here there's more but you won't find nice deals especially for wireless broadband, they'll just rip you off if you exceed over your monthly quot rather than shaping you.
Oct 29 06:17:20 <Jenna> Anyway since you can't hook a RJ-45 with it . I wonder if anyone of have tried USB as an network interface with this. (not sure but in maemo speak its called usb tethering.)
Oct 29 06:17:53 <psycho_oreos> Jenna, yeah USB networking, I've done it
Oct 29 06:20:10 <Jenna> psycho_oreos, I gather you have to add lots of non-standard stuff to get it going (u know modified kernel n stuff). is that true. ?
Oct 29 06:20:27 <ruskie> nope
Oct 29 06:20:30 <ruskie> works out of the box
Oct 29 06:20:58 <ruskie> hookup the usb cable... select phone mode... setup local usb0 and modules... ssh in
Oct 29 06:21:34 <psycho_oreos> Jenna, for USB networking you don't need to hack that much :) but otherwise yes I have some non-standard stuff running on my n900 now
Oct 29 06:22:21 * Jenna prefers ruskie's method
Oct 29 06:23:02 <Jenna> ruskie, the doc link for RT*M please !
Oct 29 06:23:24 <ruskie> http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking
Oct 29 06:23:37 <ruskie> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking
Oct 29 06:23:38 <ruskie> to be precise
Oct 29 06:25:21 <Jenna> hmm. lots of typing. But I guess I can write a onetime script for this.
Oct 29 06:27:22 <Jenna> And I suppose you guyz have not given meego 1.1 a try yet ?
Oct 29 06:27:28 <ruskie> nope
Oct 29 06:28:36 <psycho_oreos> nope, 1.1 doesn't have the features I want yet (I would love to have a complete maemo sort of alternative) plus my holdovers with RPM still exist
Oct 29 06:29:09 <ruskie> gah... forgot to run the depmod on the modules dir...
Oct 29 06:29:31 <psycho_oreos> symbol errors? ;)
Oct 29 06:29:39 <ruskie> no... simply no module loading
Oct 29 06:29:42 <ruskie> grumbl...
Oct 29 06:29:43 <psycho_oreos> ahh
Oct 29 06:30:09 <Jenna> psycho_oreos, meego is not debian based ?
Oct 29 06:30:13 <chx> well, look, the N900 sucks as a phone so on earth would you want to install an even more broken phone stack on it :) ?
Oct 29 06:30:24 <chx> it's an awesome little Linux computer, of course.
Oct 29 06:30:38 <chx> but Meego helps little there as htere are few apps
Oct 29 06:30:39 <psycho_oreos> Jenna, no, it uses RPM package management system as opposed to maemo's DEB package management system
Oct 29 06:30:43 <chx> is this a good assesment?
Oct 29 06:31:19 <psycho_oreos> N900 may suck as a phone but that doesn't mean that one can't use N900 as a phone anyway :)
Oct 29 06:31:44 <chx> of course, i just gave a reasoning why meego 1.1 makes no sense
Oct 29 06:31:51 <Venemo_N900> hi
Oct 29 06:32:17 <Jenna> oh. I have been in love with debian eversince I moved over to it after using rpm based distros for 7 years
Oct 29 06:32:20 <Jucato> 1.1 isn't meant for end-user/daily usage yet anyway
Oct 29 06:32:22 <psycho_oreos> though meego's approach is technically to be open as opposed to maemo's current proprietary stuff here and there
Oct 29 06:32:52 <psycho_oreos> phone control for example under maemo is proprietary whereas under meego for n900 is open
Oct 29 06:33:14 <chx> i will believe that when i see an open source wifi driver...
Oct 29 06:33:22 <Venemo_N900> psycho_oreos: meego's approach is to be as open as possible
Oct 29 06:33:30 <psycho_oreos> wl1251 is open :)
Oct 29 06:33:37 <kwtm> raster: Hey, you are back!
Oct 29 06:34:01 <chx> psycho_oreos: if that's so then what's all this problems with using it in master mode?
Oct 29 06:34:02 <Stskeeps> chx: wl1251 fw is redistributable (like on pc), wifi driver is open in kernel
Oct 29 06:34:12 <psycho_oreos> Venemo_N900, which is good but I still have my grudges with its use of RPM (it'll eventually be over once I do give meego a proper run)
Oct 29 06:34:42 <Jucato> wifi != phone control afaik. so open source wifi driver is not (directly) related to open source phone control
Oct 29 06:34:49 <Venemo_N900> psycho_oreos: well nothing's wrong with rpm
Oct 29 06:34:54 <psycho_oreos> chx, its because the kernel is ancient on n900, its using 2.6.28.. compat-wireless should give it more edge esp. with injection support
Oct 29 06:34:55 <kwtm> psycho_oreos: Are there any technical concerns with RPM other than it's different from APT?  I used to use Mandrake and don't recall any particular problem with urpmi.
Oct 29 06:35:11 <kwtm> It was a long time ago, though.
Oct 29 06:35:14 <chx> psycho_oreos: compat-wireless works on the N900??
Oct 29 06:35:19 <psycho_oreos> Venemo_N900, personal grudges :) had a really bad holdover eversince using rh8 and later on suse pro 8
Oct 29 06:35:21 <Stskeeps> kwtm: you can't compare rpm and apt - rpm can be compared to dpkg and apt compared to zypper or yum
Oct 29 06:35:29 <Jucato> rpm is to dpkg as urpmi/yum/zypper is to apt
Oct 29 06:35:33 <Myrtti> groan
Oct 29 06:35:35 <Jucato> bah Stskeeps beat me :P
Oct 29 06:35:43 <chx> psycho_oreos: compat-wireless gave my laptop a new life by allowing power management on the wifi
Oct 29 06:35:50 <kwtm> Stskeeps: Right, I meant to use the two metonymously to represent the two systems, but you're right --I should have said RPM and DEB.
Oct 29 06:36:02 <kwtm> Okay, fine, I'll try again:
Oct 29 06:36:09 <psycho_oreos> kwtm, had issues with rpm being really really unstable, causes segfaults and I had to reissue rebuilding of rpmdb.. that plus usually botched up installation..
Oct 29 06:36:10 <Jucato> "metonymously" ... gotta look that up >.<
Oct 29 06:36:10 <kwtm> psycho_oreos: Are there any technical concerns with RPM other than it's different from DEB?  I used to use Mandrake and don't recall any particular problem with urpmi.
Oct 29 06:36:17 <chx> i might be an idiot but arent RPM files a lot harder to create than DEB
Oct 29 06:36:29 <Stskeeps> chx: i actually find deb files harder than rpm nowadays
Oct 29 06:36:32 <kwtm> psycho_oreos: Okay, so the rpm system is just not as well done as deb, then.
Oct 29 06:36:40 <psycho_oreos> chx, I dunno if compat-wireless works on n900 but in theory one should be able to make it work with n900.. surely
Oct 29 06:36:43 <Jucato> chx: I haven't tried RPM yet, but I would already beg to differ at this point :)
Oct 29 06:37:13 <Jucato> I mean, creating RPM pacakges. but from the docs I've read, it's not harder than DEB
Oct 29 06:37:17 <chx> OK so what should i rtfm on the N900 wifi in master mode?
Oct 29 06:37:19 <chx> i really need that
Oct 29 06:37:30 <psycho_oreos> kwtm, that plus some frontend tools.. such as deb-repack and apt-mirror.. I'll admit they are such a hack but where's the equivalent for rpm? none yet
Oct 29 06:37:42 <kwtm> Jucato: metonymy: the use of a part of an object to refer to the entire object.  Like "all hands on deck" (meaning all PEOPLE, not just their hands) or "get your BUTT over here!" (and bring the rest of your body)
Oct 29 06:37:42 <chx> right now i am using an option 442 data card in a ctr 500 router for a mobile hotspot
Oct 29 06:37:54 <chx> it's painful to move the SIM card :/
Oct 29 06:38:17 <Jenna> anyway I hope maemo would allow to run the meego rpm apps thru alien or something.
Oct 29 06:38:18 <Jucato> kwtm: thanks. I got redirected to many times: metonymously -> metonymically -> metonomy :)
Oct 29 06:38:26 <Jucato> metonymy*
Oct 29 06:38:29 <psycho_oreos> chx, won't be easy, you'll need compat-wirelesss for starters, then you'll need to somehow build iw with sb.. and then hostapd (which is mandatory for all mac80211 based drivers and that includes wl1251)
Oct 29 06:38:42 * ruskie builds a monolithic kernel to try and rescue his n900 from a reflash
Oct 29 06:38:50 <kwtm> Jucato: Oh, there's no such word as "metonymously"?  Mea culpa. :P
Oct 29 06:39:28 <chx> psycho_oreos: so just give up and use ad-hoc? i guess that can work too. is there a free solution? JoikuSpot binds to IMSI and that's unnacceptable, some months I am changing my SIMs more than my socks.
Oct 29 06:39:34 <Jucato> ruskie: any luck of SMGL on it yet? :)
Oct 29 06:39:44 <Jenna> ruskie, linux is usually monolithic unless you go on the path of GNU Hurd
Oct 29 06:39:47 <Jucato> kwtm: np, google was kind enough to tell me so :)
Oct 29 06:39:58 <ruskie> Jenna, what I meant is no modules... all built in
Oct 29 06:40:57 <psycho_oreos> chx, I wouldn't give up easily, I'm tempted to also try and figure out how to get master mode working but it isn't easy for an average joe when there's fair amount of deps one needs. However all is said in theory master mode should work provided one has met all the pre-requisites of setting one up
Oct 29 06:41:20 <Jenna> ruskie, oh. u mean compile the kernel with most of the modules being compiled as "loadable modules".
Oct 29 06:41:31 * kwtm is only academically interested in this talk of Meego while he doesn't even want to upgrade from PR1.2 to PR1.3 (who knows what it will break, knowing Nokia...) :P
Oct 29 06:41:46 <ruskie> kwtm, I must say nothing broke for a change ;)
Oct 29 06:41:50 <ruskie> atleast for me
Oct 29 06:42:03 <ruskie> and I tend to mess with modified init scripts and such ;)
Oct 29 06:42:20 <kwtm> ruskie: Really!  Well, okay, if more people say that then I might just go ahead and upgrade.  But were there worthwhile improvements?  I'm perfectly happy with 1.2 right now.
Oct 29 06:42:29 <Jenna> ruskie ; But a good amount of thought must have been already put into while building a generic kernel. as to what sort of things would be most frequently used n stuff etc..
Oct 29 06:42:31 <ruskie> can't really say
Oct 29 06:42:35 <ruskie> only been using it a day or two
Oct 29 06:42:51 <psycho_oreos> that reminds me... re: PR1.3
Oct 29 06:42:51 <flux> apparently it hasn't gone for worse, atleast
Oct 29 06:43:21 <Jenna> kwtm, unless you try n900bounce app. It should surely break it
Oct 29 06:43:23 <Guest77323> nothing broke for me. but it did make me ditch all the crud I had built up (you have to reinstall apps)
Oct 29 06:43:25 <kwtm> ruskie: I get to claim to be the King of "Mess with Modified Init Scripts".  I found the one-line text file that killed the N900 (reflash or return to store). :P  Not that I'm such an expert on these things; I just stumbled into it and almost gave up on the N900.
Oct 29 06:43:48 <ruskie> kwtm, lol... I started messing with them the day I got it...
Oct 29 06:43:54 <kwtm> Jenna: Is that the "n900fly" or something like that?  "How far can you throw your n900"?  I couldn't believe it...
Oct 29 06:44:15 <ruskie> kwtm, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie
Oct 29 06:44:37 <Jucato> kwtm: just an app idea. "how hard can your N900 bounce" :)
Oct 29 06:44:41 <kwtm> Jenna: although it would be nice to have an "accelerometer record" app for the car to see how hard I brake/swerve when I drive. :)
Oct 29 06:44:44 <RobbieThe1st> It's device-breaking time!
Oct 29 06:44:45 <ruskie> anyway it's actually sad that the n900 is so easy to break though
Oct 29 06:44:48 <chx> psycho_oreos: http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ what's with this?
Oct 29 06:44:56 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: imagine, they were unable to repair my N900 so they replaced it
Oct 29 06:45:03 <Jucato> kwtm: this would be great for a MeeGo tablet too: http://www.cultofmac.com/self-evidently-bad-app-idea-scale-for-ipad/45179
Oct 29 06:45:12 <Guest77323> this is why we can't have nice things
Oct 29 06:45:13 <Jenna> kwtm, Im a bit stingy with my spending. so I dont have a big heart to try various altitudes
Oct 29 06:45:24 <kwtm> ruskie: Are you using an Otter Box?  It looks indestructible (not that I've ever tried to test it...)
Oct 29 06:45:33 <ruskie> kwtm, I meant software wise
Oct 29 06:46:09 <psycho_oreos> chx, that uses ad-hoc mode.. I have it installed and it isn't particularly great but one should never complain over free lunch :)
Oct 29 06:46:10 <kwtm> Jenna: Ah, unlike you, I bought three N900's in a row.
Oct 29 06:46:17 <ruskie> every little thing breaks it... ow you want to mount /usr... sure... breaks... because stuff in /bin needs stuff in /usr/lib
Oct 29 06:46:22 <ruskie> kwtm, oh wow
Oct 29 06:46:38 * kwtm conveniently omits the fact that he returned the first two because of a defect.  Yeah, the one-liner text file that killed the bootup process.
Oct 29 06:46:42 <ruskie> lol
Oct 29 06:47:00 <RobbieThe1st> Ruskie: Sounds to me like you want to be able to make RootFS images to flash when you break things..
Oct 29 06:47:03 * psycho_oreos would be happy if he could afford to another n900
Oct 29 06:47:05 <Jenna> btw I hear they make alumimum casings for n900 as well. Anyone invested on those ?
Oct 29 06:47:11 <chx> psycho_oreos: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=757040&postcount=214 seems the firmware has a bug
Oct 29 06:47:16 <RobbieThe1st> ruskie: Like, say, http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html
Oct 29 06:47:23 <ruskie> RobbieThe1st, have considered it
Oct 29 06:48:22 <kwtm> ruskie: I can't beat your web page.  I can only offer this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58551&page=3
Oct 29 06:49:03 <psycho_oreos> chx, interesting, oh well that looks like it would be seen as TI's fault
Oct 29 06:49:22 <chx> psycho_oreos: http://www.expansys-usa.com/spectec-sdw-823-microsdio-wlan-card-802-11bg-140798/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base would this work?
Oct 29 06:50:23 <djszapi> checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. -> How can I avoid it in scratchbox while build the target debian package ?
Oct 29 06:50:33 <djszapi> i386 target, it works with arm target though.
Oct 29 06:51:09 <chx> http://www.spectec.com.tw/downloads.html source code here.
Oct 29 06:52:05 <psycho_oreos> chx, I wouldn't know to be honest, plus USB host-mode could bring more potentials into the mix.
Oct 29 06:52:58 <chx> thats not usb
Oct 29 06:52:58 <kwtm> Anyway, I am on the verge of mapping a vim keystroke to phone phone numbers highlighted in a text file.  I hate the built-in phone GUI.  It is so clumsy...
Oct 29 06:53:10 <RobbieThe1st> :P
Oct 29 06:53:21 <ruskie> kwtm, interesting issue
Oct 29 06:53:41 <psycho_oreos> chx, correct it isn't but I'm not sure how will it function under maemo :)
Oct 29 06:53:48 <ruskie> kwtm, you know you can just type on the desktop and it'll get you to the contact?
Oct 29 06:53:59 <kwtm> The contacts database takes forever to search through (not for everybody, it seems, but for me).
Oct 29 06:54:43 <ruskie> hmm
Oct 29 06:54:48 <ruskie> how many contacts do you have?
Oct 29 06:54:51 <kwtm> ruskie: Actually, I am trying to avoid using the contact database.  It slows down when I load the Conversations widget (because then it has to look up each phone number to map the phone number to the name).  Same with loading the phone app since it has to load contacts database.
Oct 29 06:55:06 <kwtm> ruskie: Only about 2580 or so.  Other people tell me they have 2000+ with no slowdown.
Oct 29 06:55:15 <ruskie> kwtm, last I checked all those were preloaded
Oct 29 06:55:17 <RobbieThe1st> ..Huh, it worked. Great. So, current version of BackupMenu works fine on PR1.3
Oct 29 06:55:21 <ruskie> contacts, phone, browser, etc...
Oct 29 06:55:26 <ruskie> kwtm, lol...
Oct 29 06:55:31 <Guest77323> god I need more friends.
Oct 29 06:55:31 <kwtm> ruskie: AND the contacts app can't import more than 1000 contacts at a time (thanks a lot, Nokia!)
Oct 29 06:55:43 <ruskie> do you actually know all 2580 ppl?
Oct 29 06:55:48 <Venemo_N900> kwtm: lol
Oct 29 06:55:50 <ruskie> or are those like fecesbook friends?
Oct 29 06:56:33 <kwtm> ruskie: Why do I need to know all 2580 ppl?  When you have 2580 files on your computer, do people ask, "Do you know what is contained in all 2580 files"?  Do you make sure that you know what is in each of 2580 photos that you took?
Oct 29 06:56:48 <ruskie> kwtm, generally yes
Oct 29 06:56:53 <kwtm> ruskie: But, to answer you, YES I know all 2580 people.   Why would I put in the contacts database otherwise?
Oct 29 06:56:55 <ruskie> I sort through them and discard any I don't like
Oct 29 06:56:58 <Guest77323> lol
Oct 29 06:57:45 <ruskie> hmm I think I have less than 30 contacts in mine
Oct 29 06:58:00 <kwtm> I think the contacts app was designed by some pathetic Nokia engineer.  "Hey, I tried importing my ENTIRE list of friends, and both of the entries got imported, so it must work!"
Oct 29 06:58:02 <ruskie> and even there I generally don't use more than 2-3 regulary
Oct 29 06:58:19 <ruskie> kwtm, tried using syncevolution to sync from a syncml server?
Oct 29 06:58:20 <kwtm> (apologies if said pathetic Nokia engineer is among present company)
Oct 29 06:58:43 <ruskie> well imho I'd call 2000+ a corner case
Oct 29 06:58:48 <ruskie> not something one would use to test against
Oct 29 06:58:50 <kwtm> ruskie: Hmm... not sure what you are saying about syncevolution.  Is that supposed to start my phone app more quickly because it doesn't have to keep rummaging through my contacts?
Oct 29 06:59:01 <Jenna> RobbieThe1st, I suppose and editing is in the order of that page http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=844029#
Oct 29 06:59:04 <ruskie> no I meant for importing contacts ;)
Oct 29 06:59:14 <ruskie> I think the average would be more like 50 maybe 100 contacts
Oct 29 06:59:38 <kwtm> ruskie: Well, I've managed to import all contacts.  Just had to do it 1000 contacts at a time.  But my beef is not just (or even mainly) that it would only import 1000 at a time.
Oct 29 06:59:51 <kwtm> My beef is that it would ONLY import 1000 at a time AND NOT TELL ME.
Oct 29 06:59:51 <ruskie> yes you said so
Oct 29 06:59:58 <ruskie> lol
Oct 29 07:00:15 <RobbieThe1st> Yea, I suppose. I'm developing as I go, and have had to change things multiple times, so... Plus, I probably should go find a proper layout template..
Oct 29 07:00:20 <kwtm> So: "Okay, user, I've imported ALL your contacts."  (in an aside whisper) "The first 1000 contacts, anyway.  Why would you need me to import more?"
Oct 29 07:00:25 <RobbieThe1st> Like, a list of proper sections and all
Oct 29 07:00:43 <kwtm> And then I have to figure out WHICH contacts have been imported and which haven't.  So then I reimport the rest of the file and have duplicate contacts.
Oct 29 07:01:17 <kwtm> Ever try to merge 1000 duplicate contacts?  (No, *don't* tell me about the "merge duplicate contacts" app which makes you check off 1000 checkboxes to merge the 1000 duplicate contacts)
Oct 29 07:02:10 <Venemo_N900> kwtm: I only did this with a few hundred, not 1000
Oct 29 07:02:39 <kwtm> However, to get back to what I originally mentioned: I could stick these contacts all in one big 10MB (or 100MB) text file and vim can handle it fine.
Oct 29 07:02:57 <ruskie> hmm would be nice to have a smart merge contacts system...
Oct 29 07:03:01 <kwtm> So I'll just get a vim command to send some dbus command and dispense with all the contact lookup.
Oct 29 07:03:07 <RobbieThe1st> Yea, that's true. VIM's frigging awesome
Oct 29 07:03:40 <kwtm> The only thing I need is how to generate DTMF tones while in a phone call (e.g. "John is not available right now --press 1 to leave a message" etc.)
Oct 29 07:04:23 <kwtm> RobbieThe1st: vim is the most-used application I have.  I use it to take notes and look up this huge database of drug info (I'm a doctor; I use this every day)
Oct 29 07:05:41 <RobbieThe1st> I can imagine. Personally, I use it as my console text-editor on both my N900 and desktop, though I do tend to use a GUI editor when I'm on the desktop. If I'm editing cfg or script files though? vim it is.
Oct 29 07:06:01 <kerio> kwtm: there's probably a doctor-mode in emacs
Oct 29 07:06:21 <kwtm> Speaking of text-based apps, is there a text-based browser like lynx, links2 or elinks for the N900 which can replace the built-in MicroB ("B" is for Bloat)?
Oct 29 07:06:25 <kerio> (not to mention the org-mode for taking notes, which i'm told is godly)
Oct 29 07:06:35 <kwtm> kerio: Yeah, but I can't use emacs.  I only have 10 fingers. :)
Oct 29 07:06:41 <kerio> kwtm: you have a weird idea of bloat but... i guess lynx, links2 or elinks
Oct 29 07:06:41 <RobbieThe1st> :P
Oct 29 07:06:50 <kerio> i'd use dillo though
Oct 29 07:06:57 <kerio> lightning fast, and has more features than elinks
Oct 29 07:07:11 <kwtm> kerio: Well, I currently use MicroB to load my home page with is a simple text file (okay, it's got one form field for looking up Google).  It takes FOREVER to load!
Oct 29 07:07:12 <Jucato> kwtm: I just saw links while browsing a while ago. in extras-devel probably
Oct 29 07:07:30 <kerio> i mean, dillo supports css!
Oct 29 07:07:33 <kwtm> kerio: Oh, dillo is a text browser?  Haven't heard of it but sounds like I should look it up.
Oct 29 07:07:38 <kerio> no, it's graphical
Oct 29 07:07:39 <Jucato> kwtm: you should try it on fennec then! FOREVER * FOREVER :)
Oct 29 07:07:42 <ruskie> no it isn't
Oct 29 07:07:42 <kerio> but reeeeeeeeeeeeally fast
Oct 29 07:07:47 <ruskie> it's a gui browser
Oct 29 07:08:04 <ruskie> I'll stick to uzbl myself though
Oct 29 07:08:15 <kwtm> Jucato: Ahhh, yes.  Fennec.  Where, instead of taking a coffee break, you can fly to Colombia to pick out the coffee beans yourself while waiting for it to load. :)
Oct 29 07:08:17 <ruskie> just wish someone would make a usable port of it for the n900
Oct 29 07:08:47 <RobbieThe1st> kwtm: How come it takes so long? Heck, even Slashdot takes only around 20s with my 1.5m dsl connection...
Oct 29 07:09:05 <Jucato> ruskie: didn't you use midori once upon a time?
Oct 29 07:09:12 <RobbieThe1st> vs around 8s on my desktop
Oct 29 07:09:16 <ruskie> Jucato, nope
Oct 29 07:09:24 <kwtm> Well, I tried Midori, but it has this weird bug.  When I type some text (e.g. in the URL bar), it replaces whatever I type with the Fn+ key.  For example, I type S, then "S" appears, and then it disappears and is replaced by "+".  D becomes # and F becomes -.  Weird.
Oct 29 07:09:26 <kerio> http://arewefastyet.com/
Oct 29 07:10:06 <kwtm> RobbieThe1st: No idea.  It's a built in text file on the N900.  It doesn't even need an internet connect, for crying out loud.  (I just use the text file as a quick way to get to various links, like Google, or my .documents directory, etc.)
Oct 29 07:10:11 <kerio> sunspider ftw
Oct 29 07:10:15 <RobbieThe1st> Wow
Oct 29 07:10:26 <kwtm> Midori doesn't have a file browser.  It chokes on URLs like "file:///home/user/MyDocs/.documents"
Oct 29 07:10:55 <ruskie> true
Oct 29 07:11:13 <kerio> kwtm: are you aware of the esistance of... you know... bookmarks
Oct 29 07:11:27 <kerio> which is what you're supposed to use while browserd loads
Oct 29 07:12:09 <ruskie> hmmm anyone got an emergency recovery kernel with an initrd attached?
Oct 29 07:12:10 <kwtm> kerio: Oh, I'd have to use the bookmarks feature of MicroB instead of having it load a single textonly HTML file from the local file system?  From my experience, bookmarks are even slower (and they have to generate a graphics thumbnail).
Oct 29 07:12:24 <kerio> kwtm: they load fast though
Oct 29 07:12:26 <kerio> open Web
Oct 29 07:12:32 <kerio> it opens up "instantly"
Oct 29 07:12:40 <kerio> ask timeless_mbp for the reason
Oct 29 07:12:53 <kerio> he worked on microB
Oct 29 07:12:54 <kwtm> kerio: Probably my N900 is slowed down for some reason.  I've seen on threads that some people have very slow N900's and aren't sure why.  There seem to be multiple reasons.
Oct 29 07:13:06 <kwtm> Sometimes a restart will fix it, sometimes not.
Oct 29 07:13:12 <ruskie> I'd say tracker might be the main issue
Oct 29 07:13:17 <raster> kwtm: back from where? i never left
Oct 29 07:13:31 <Venemo_N900> kwtm: when was your last reflash?
Oct 29 07:13:53 <kwtm> ruskie: Yeah, what *is* this "tracker" thing?  Is it like a built-in gremlin that slows everything down?
Oct 29 07:14:04 <kerio> while also indexing your music
Oct 29 07:14:07 <kerio> so yeah
Oct 29 07:14:17 <ruskie> kwtm, indexer
Oct 29 07:14:21 <ruskie> documents etc...
Oct 29 07:14:22 <kerio> there's also pulseaudio
Oct 29 07:14:31 <ruskie> you can edit it's config file somewhere in your ~/ on the device
Oct 29 07:14:36 <kerio> which is another built-in gremlin that slows everything down
Oct 29 07:14:42 <kerio> while making you listen to shit
Oct 29 07:15:04 <Jucato> thought PR 1.3 had PA-related fixes?
Oct 29 07:15:11 <RobbieThe1st> Oh, yea. That reminds me - Time to figure out the setting to disable apt auto-updates
Oct 29 07:15:14 <kerio> Jucato: does it still use pa?
Oct 29 07:15:34 <kwtm> raster: :) :) that's so funny: "Raster, you're back!"  (40 minutes later) "What do you mean?  I never left" ... uhh... Anyway, what I meant was that I didn't see you the few times that I signed on; I'm eager to hear more news about the Samsung Linux Phone thing.  I know you can't say much, but ... still moving on track?  I'm looking forward to having a choice of Real Linux Smartphones.
Oct 29 07:15:49 <Jucato> kerio: afaik yes.
Oct 29 07:15:56 <kerio> then it's not fixed yet
Oct 29 07:15:59 <Jucato> don't think they can replace PA in the middle of a release
Oct 29 07:16:02 <Jucato> heh
Oct 29 07:16:08 <raster> kwtm: oh i just lurk. people are just at my desk in real life :)
Oct 29 07:16:09 <kwtm> kerio: I think that, on my N900, it's PulseAudio and also the swapping.
Oct 29 07:16:11 <raster> or i'm off doing code
Oct 29 07:16:13 <raster> or something
Oct 29 07:16:23 <kwtm> raster:  I figured that. :)
Oct 29 07:16:24 <raster> as for on track - yes. moving. nicely
Oct 29 07:16:24 <kerio> teh swapping :(
Oct 29 07:17:14 <internetishard> Do any of you use iptables in maemo?
Oct 29 07:17:14 <internetishard> Also, why is fennec so so to *start* loading (opera isn't)?
Oct 29 07:17:17 <kwtm> I set "swappiness" to 1 (I think) and when the phone rings, it takes about 15 seconds for the phone app to become usable.  Of course, my phone shunts to voice mail after 15 seconds...
Oct 29 07:17:37 <kerio> internetishard: because gecko is not exactly light
Oct 29 07:17:42 <internetishard> oh shpan i was wondering about swappiness on maemo
Oct 29 07:17:47 <kwtm> internetishard: You just cut and pasted your question about fennec from before (complete with typo: s/so/slow/2)
Oct 29 07:17:55 <internetishard> yeah I'm smahsed
Oct 29 07:18:00 <internetishard> just checking back irc before i crash
Oct 29 07:18:04 <internetishard> Appologies
Oct 29 07:18:05 <timeless_mbp> kerio: what's the question?
Oct 29 07:18:08 <raster> kwtm:  swappiness to 1 or 100?
Oct 29 07:18:26 <kerio> timeless_mbp: "why do you feel the need to lie to your user regarding the loading time of microb
Oct 29 07:18:35 <kwtm> Is there some command to check swapping, like "while /bin/true; do am_I_swapping >> swap.log; sleep 5s; done" or something like that?
Oct 29 07:18:39 <timeless_mbp> kerio: "duh"?
Oct 29 07:18:40 <kerio> wrt bookmarks vs real windows"
Oct 29 07:18:59 <kwtm> raster: Swappiness to 1, I think.  So it tries not to swap, but when it does swap, it takes forever.  At least that's my impression.
Oct 29 07:19:07 <timeless_mbp> the system's dyloader more or less sucks
Oct 29 07:19:12 <raster> just set to 0
Oct 29 07:19:13 <kwtm> raster: I think default is 30?  I tried changing it but it didn't help.
Oct 29 07:19:19 <raster> well it will swap
Oct 29 07:19:22 <raster> when it runs out of ram
Oct 29 07:19:23 <timeless_mbp> so loading the engine takes time during which the process can't possibly give any feedback
Oct 29 07:19:38 <raster> but it wont swap anon pages out in favor of disk cache
Oct 29 07:19:42 <raster> which is what swappiness controls
Oct 29 07:19:53 <timeless_mbp> imagine you had an app that couldn't possibly browse
Oct 29 07:19:58 <kwtm> raster: Yeah, I actually think my N900 is so slow because it runs out of RAM.  (And that contacts database must somehow thrash it badly)
Oct 29 07:20:02 <timeless_mbp> what other thing could you *possibly* provide while you waited?
Oct 29 07:20:16 <raster> then swappiness wont help u
Oct 29 07:20:25 <raster> contacts db - depends how its handled
Oct 29 07:20:30 <kwtm> raster: Yeah, I found out the hard way...
Oct 29 07:20:30 <raster> ifits mmaped and decoded onthe fly
Oct 29 07:20:37 <raster> then that will be disk cache
Oct 29 07:20:39 <dRbiG> ehh? i agree that tracker is a big mistake, but pulseaudio? in my case when i'm listening to music and someone calls it's almost instantenous that i get the ringtone instead of music and phone app ready to answer, or not
Oct 29 07:20:42 <raster> thus swappiness will control it
Oct 29 07:20:50 <raster> if its loaded and kept all in heap.. then no.
Oct 29 07:21:06 <dRbiG> kerio: maybe the problem in your case is some other app, not pa
Oct 29 07:21:35 <raster> kernel should have an easy (root only) feature to lock pages of a specific process into memory
Oct 29 07:21:36 <raster> (mlock)
Oct 29 07:21:37 <kwtm> dRbiG: I think it is me to whom you address your comment --kerio wasn't having a problem.  But I think it's mainly ram.
Oct 29 07:21:48 <dRbiG> oh, sorry
Oct 29 07:21:56 <raster> all pages it touches (read or write) should get mlocked by kernel auotmatically
Oct 29 07:22:09 <kwtm> I can't prove it, but I think I just use vim a heck of a lot and it takes more memory, and then everything else swaps around... :P
Oct 29 07:22:09 <raster> (until they are released)
Oct 29 07:22:53 <kwtm> raster: Wow, I am swooning with all these impressive technical terms, but I think what you're saying is that swappiness is not my problem.  But is *swapping* itself my problem?
Oct 29 07:23:04 <raster> yes
Oct 29 07:23:18 <raster> swappiness can cause swapping
Oct 29 07:23:18 <kwtm> My N900 slowly slows down until it's unusable every week or so.  Then I turn it off and on, and sometimes it's back to normal, sometimes not.
Oct 29 07:23:25 <raster> but the thing that causes it is disk access
Oct 29 07:23:32 <raster> (reading files for example)
Oct 29 07:23:32 <dRbiG> kwtm: strange
Oct 29 07:23:33 <RobbieThe1st> Hm... Isn't there some setting that forces it to try to keep x KB free most all the time?
Oct 29 07:23:39 <dRbiG> i have uptimes of weeks
Oct 29 07:23:42 <raster> if you set it to 0
Oct 29 07:23:44 <dRbiG> and it never slows down
Oct 29 07:23:51 <raster> then disk io wont force things to swap out
Oct 29 07:23:53 <raster> BUT
Oct 29 07:24:05 <raster> u still can get swapping due to simply being out of enouhg mem
Oct 29 07:24:10 <raster> and needing more for a process
Oct 29 07:24:15 <kwtm> dRbiG: Oh, stop being so surprised.  I found out that everyone uses his/her computer differently, so YOU could have no problem, but that doesn't really help ME.
Oct 29 07:24:21 <dRbiG> kwtm: my bet is that you have some app that doesn't clean up properly
Oct 29 07:24:22 <raster> and thats another matter entirely
Oct 29 07:24:29 <raster> there is a system call called mlock()
Oct 29 07:24:33 <raster> only root can use it
Oct 29 07:24:38 <raster> but u can use it to lock memory in place
Oct 29 07:24:43 <dRbiG> kwtm: exactly - my 'help' here is that i would rule out pulseaudio as source
Oct 29 07:24:46 <raster> that means it will not be swapped out
Oct 29 07:24:47 <raster> ever
Oct 29 07:24:52 <kwtm> dRbiG: Agreed, but what could it be?  My suspicion is that it's one of the built-ins (or vim) because I don't use the others enough to cause swap flop
Oct 29 07:24:55 <raster> until released or munlocked()
Oct 29 07:24:58 <raster> but its a system call
Oct 29 07:25:07 <raster> and you do it inside your app on ranges of memory
Oct 29 07:25:29 <kwtm> dRbiG: I say pulseaudio because "conky" shows that pulseaudio will take up 16% CPU at a time when there is not really any sound playing (other than "click" when I tap on an icon).
Oct 29 07:25:46 <raster> this means that a "vital" process that is needed and must react ASPA
Oct 29 07:25:52 <raster> can at least avoid swapping itself back in
Oct 29 07:26:05 <raster> it can also mlock pages from its code and shared libs in to avoid paging them in too when it wakes up
Oct 29 07:26:11 <kwtm> raster: From the standpoint of us non-technical mortals, is there a way to "lock" the phone app in memory, at least?
Oct 29 07:26:23 <RobbieThe1st> Um... keep it running?
Oct 29 07:26:26 <kwtm> Can I write a 3-line C program that says "mlock(phone_app);" or something?
Oct 29 07:26:40 <raster> it could also be set to a realtime (fifo) priority to ensure it absolutely gets all the cpu it needs (other than cpu used by kernel to service interrupts and kernel services)
Oct 29 07:26:51 <raster> so for example.. dialler should/could do that
Oct 29 07:26:55 <raster> along with telephony server
Oct 29 07:27:06 <kwtm> RobbieThe1st: Hmm, I never thought about that.  It would be really inconvenient on the dashboard, but might be worth a try... wonder if I need to keep the Contacts app running, too.
Oct 29 07:27:10 <raster> though as dialler needs x and compositor and wm to work also for display to happen
Oct 29 07:27:20 <raster> u'd need to also mlock/realtime fifo them too
Oct 29 07:27:23 <dRbiG> kwtm: hmm, does the cpu usage stays high for long or is it just a oneshoot peak?... and i think that conky is more suitable to be the memory and cpu hog it that case :)
Oct 29 07:27:33 <raster> to make a sure-fire way to always handle an incoming call "instantly"
Oct 29 07:27:41 <raster> anyway
Oct 29 07:27:49 <raster> for those not wiritng the code
Oct 29 07:27:53 <raster> u're "screwed"
Oct 29 07:28:01 <raster> thats what i was getting at
Oct 29 07:28:15 <raster> there is currently no way to tell the kernel to do this for u with a nice /proc/ value
Oct 29 07:28:16 <raster> or something
Oct 29 07:28:19 <kwtm> dRbiG: What do you mean, conky is more suitable?  Conky lists the top 4 apps that use the most CPU, and I can see that PulseAudio is generally 1st or 2nd when my phone slows down.
Oct 29 07:28:22 <raster> that'd be much more convenient
Oct 29 07:28:25 <raster> (or not last i knew)
Oct 29 07:29:22 <kwtm> raster: Ahh, too bad.  But now that you mention "dialler", is that the phone GUI?  Could I (say) use a dbus command to dial a phone, and then only afterward invoke "dialler" so I have a GUI to respond to "Press 1 to leave a message, press 2 to get the operator" etc.?
Oct 29 07:29:34 <RobbieThe1st> Y'know, we all complain about the N900 not being responsive enough... Ubuntu on a similar-spec'd machine(1ghz tablet, 512mb ram) is -so- much worse when running apps that take all available CPU
Oct 29 07:29:47 <raster> wel conceptually its the dialling/calll handling gui process
Oct 29 07:29:53 <raster> actually dont know what it is on maemo
Oct 29 07:30:05 <raster> RobbieThe1st:  hehehehe
Oct 29 07:30:30 <kwtm> RobbieThe1st: >sigh< Okay, we can all complain about Ubuntu, then, too.  The point is: when you have a phone, it's not enough for the computer to be just a computer.  When my patient calls don't come through because I can't answer the call in time, it doesn't help to say, "But Ubuntu is even slower!"
Oct 29 07:30:43 <RobbieThe1st> True
Oct 29 07:31:02 <raster> indeed
Oct 29 07:31:09 <raster> that reminds me
Oct 29 07:31:13 <raster> need to check on something
Oct 29 07:31:19 <raster> thanks for the reminder :)
Oct 29 07:31:23 <RobbieThe1st> the -obvious- thing to do then, is to call the N900 a "Mobile computer", with a sim-card-slot. Problem solved. :P
Oct 29 07:31:40 <kwtm> I think (in my limited technical knowledge) that what we need is RTlinux.  The phone gets to be a RT process.  Everything else is just an idle process that executes in the background.  WHen the phone rings, I don't care if the entire computer locks up and freezes while the phone app pops up.
Oct 29 07:32:25 <kwtm> RobbieThe1st: Yeah, that's what someone else said, too (but in a much less friendly way than you): "It's not a phone!  It's a computer --with phone capabilities!"  Meanwhile, it's being marketed worldwide as a phone.  (Otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.)
Oct 29 07:32:51 <crashanddie> actually, it's been marketed worldwide as a computer in your pocket
Oct 29 07:32:55 <RobbieThe1st> Heck, I'd like a bit more than that - Give the phone RT priority, sound high priority, whatever app's in the foreground high priority. Everything else gets low priority.
Oct 29 07:32:57 <kwtm> I guess Nokia can say, if Maemo runs slow, "It's not a computer!  It's a paperweight --with computing and SD card IO and wifi capabilites"
Oct 29 07:33:28 <crashanddie> kwtm, http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/
Oct 29 07:33:38 <dRbiG> kwtm: yes, it's a computer and phone is additional feature. anyway, i still think that you have some app or something that does something bad to pa when you get a call
Oct 29 07:33:41 <crashanddie> kwtm, read the title of that page "Nokia N900 Mobile Computer"
Oct 29 07:33:49 <dRbiG> so pa is suddenly taking more resources that it should
Oct 29 07:33:54 <crashanddie> wrong focus
Oct 29 07:33:58 <kwtm> RobbieThe1st: Agreed!  Can't we expand nice from the -10to+10 range to -100to+100?  I'm *almost* longing for the non-multitasking Treo650 that I had --"background" tasks have zero priority.  They simply don't get executed at all! :)
Oct 29 07:34:27 <jacekowski> kwtm: there is something like that
Oct 29 07:34:31 <jacekowski> kwtm: nice 19
Oct 29 07:34:42 <kwtm> crashanddie: Oh, THERE you are!  Was wondering when you'd pop up.  Anyway, we had this discussion before.
Oct 29 07:34:55 <dRbiG> kwtm: on the other hand - did you have such problems when your n900 was bare to the factory settings?
Oct 29 07:35:25 <crashanddie> erhm, no
Oct 29 07:35:31 <crashanddie> you probably had this discussion with someone else
Oct 29 07:35:33 <kwtm> dRbiG: Oh, don't even talk about bare-to-factory.  It crashed on the second day (yeah, one-line text file again).  But to answer your question: yes.
Oct 29 07:35:40 <crashanddie> you know, one of the other few hundred geeks
Oct 29 07:35:43 <crashanddie> who are... right
Oct 29 07:35:46 <kwtm> crashanddie: No, it was you.
Oct 29 07:35:58 <Myrtti> crashanddie: DENY TO THE LAST BREATH!
Oct 29 07:36:07 <jacekowski> kwtm: apps with nice 19 only are scheduled on to a processor if there are resources left from other apps
Oct 29 07:36:12 <kwtm> Oh, er, right!  Yeah, it must have been some other geek.  Yeah.
Oct 29 07:36:22 <kwtm> jacekowski: Really!?  Okay, will try that.
Oct 29 07:36:44 <jacekowski> kwtm: and/or you can SIGSTOP and SIGCONT apps as needed
Oct 29 07:36:48 <kwtm> jacekowski: Is there a corollary: nice -19 will get whatever resources are available?  Would love to renice -19 the phone.
Oct 29 07:36:59 <jacekowski> kwtm: yes
Oct 29 07:37:02 <jacekowski> kwtm: there is
Oct 29 07:37:10 <jacekowski> kwtm: and phone app already has quite high nice
Oct 29 07:37:10 <kwtm> jacekowski: Very interesting... okay.  Will try that.
Oct 29 07:37:23 <jacekowski> kwtm: and pulseaudio as well
Oct 29 07:37:35 <kwtm> jacekowski: I figured the phone app would be negative-niced, which is why I am postulating that it's the contacts app that's slowing it down.
Oct 29 07:37:43 <dRbiG> and both of them work for other people
Oct 29 07:37:58 <jacekowski> kwtm: but if you have low nice app telling pulseaudio to do something strange it's not going to help
Oct 29 07:37:58 <dRbiG> so guess is that the problem is actually somewhere else
Oct 29 07:38:16 <jacekowski> because it will be pulseaudio with high nice using lot of resources
Oct 29 07:38:36 <kwtm> dRbiG: Hmm, so you think it may be related to pulseaudio, but not directly the way pulseaudio is written.  You think it may be some other app using pulseaudio in a non-optimal way.
Oct 29 07:38:51 <dRbiG> kwtm: exactly that was my guessing
Oct 29 07:38:56 <jacekowski> pulseaudio is suboptimal by design
Oct 29 07:39:03 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: hi :) do you probably know the answer to my question if i should flash "secondary", "2nd" and "xloader" and if yes, then which version (as pr1.3 has several bundled).
Oct 29 07:39:07 <jacekowski> and it was obsolete at the moment of writing
Oct 29 07:39:28 <kwtm> jacekowski: I don't suppose there's an equivalent of "swapnice -19
Oct 29 07:39:35 <jacekowski> kwtm: renice
Oct 29 07:39:38 <kwtm> jacekowski: I don't suppose there's an equivalent of "swapnice -19" where the app is never swapped out, as raster was implying?
Oct 29 07:39:43 <jacekowski> ah
Oct 29 07:39:47 <jacekowski> there is
Oct 29 07:39:55 <jacekowski> but it has to be done by app
Oct 29 07:39:57 <jacekowski> mlock
Oct 29 07:40:17 <jacekowski> and it's blocked on most systems
Oct 29 07:40:25 <jacekowski> because it has potential for abuse
Oct 29 07:40:37 <jacekowski> because it's messing up with memory overcommit
Oct 29 07:40:44 <dRbiG> a lot of potential for it
Oct 29 07:41:00 <dRbiG> like a memory leaking app locked in ram... bye bye
Oct 29 07:41:54 <raster> kwtm: not swapnice - not prioritising swapping in and out
Oct 29 07:42:00 <raster> but there is a way to NOT swap ever
Oct 29 07:42:03 <raster> mlock
Oct 29 07:42:08 <raster> or mlockall() to be specific
Oct 29 07:42:08 <jacekowski> i just said tht
Oct 29 07:42:14 <dRbiG> or disable swap
Oct 29 07:42:24 <raster> jav was getting to the mlockall bit :)
Oct 29 07:42:24 <kwtm> raster: Oh, sorry .. mlock is a command-line command, or a C library function?  My impression was the latter.
Oct 29 07:42:32 <raster> csystem call
Oct 29 07:42:34 <raster> (c lib func)
Oct 29 07:42:38 <raster> the process has to call it
Oct 29 07:42:41 <raster> ie u dant do it
Oct 29 07:42:45 <raster> well actually
Oct 29 07:42:46 <raster> i lie
Oct 29 07:42:50 <jacekowski> you can do it with gdb
Oct 29 07:42:52 <raster> u could use an ld_preload
Oct 29 07:42:53 <raster> :)
Oct 29 07:42:57 <jacekowski> or ptrace
Oct 29 07:42:58 <raster> yes
Oct 29 07:42:58 <raster> or gdb
Oct 29 07:42:59 <raster> :)
Oct 29 07:43:01 <raster> yes
Oct 29 07:43:10 <raster> but now we're getting silly :)
Oct 29 07:43:16 <kwtm> Okay, from the point of a C language klutz, could I instead assign more memory to RAM and less to the virtual disk?  I mean, the N900 has THIRTY-TWO gigs of RAM, and all but less than a gig goes to virtual disk!?
Oct 29 07:43:33 <jacekowski> kwtm: no it doesn't
Oct 29 07:43:36 <raster> no it doesnt
Oct 29 07:43:39 <jacekowski> kwtm: n900 has only 256M of ram
Oct 29 07:43:44 <raster> it has 256m of ram
Oct 29 07:43:46 <raster> hahaha
Oct 29 07:43:58 <raster> there's an echo in here
Oct 29 07:43:58 <raster> :)
Oct 29 07:44:05 <kwtm> Wow, I'm getting answers in stereo. :)  But it only confirms that you two are right --please go on.
Oct 29 07:44:15 <jacekowski> kwtm: that 32G is just an eMMC
Oct 29 07:44:18 <raster> turn off swap
Oct 29 07:44:22 <jacekowski> kwtm: flash memory
Oct 29 07:44:24 <raster> and it'll work better
Oct 29 07:44:27 <jacekowski> kwtm: it's really slow
Oct 29 07:44:34 <raster> thats your user clutz control
Oct 29 07:44:36 <kwtm> Awww... 32G of snail-RAM!?  Geez...
Oct 29 07:44:41 <jacekowski> kwtm: it's not a ram
Oct 29 07:44:43 <raster> its not ram
Oct 29 07:44:46 <raster> its disk
Oct 29 07:44:58 <jacekowski> kwtm: it's like a soldered on memory card
Oct 29 07:45:13 <raster> (well nand flash behind an mmc wear leveling controller soldered onto the board as a chip and wired up to the emmc interface)
Oct 29 07:45:16 <jacekowski> kwtm: same like the one you can change yourself
Oct 29 07:45:22 <raster> err emmc interface
Oct 29 07:45:25 <kwtm> No wonder I'm swapping!  My drug info itself is 11Gig...
Oct 29 07:45:26 <raster> mmc
Oct 29 07:45:28 <raster> bah
Oct 29 07:45:48 <jacekowski> kwtm: that has nothing to do with it
Oct 29 07:45:54 <raster> n900 comes with 768m partition of disk AVAILABLe for swap
Oct 29 07:45:55 <kwtm> Not that I mind vim swapping the text file.  But ... 256M ram... I am so disappointed...
Oct 29 07:46:00 <raster> it can be turned on and off
Oct 29 07:46:13 <raster> this allows ram to be written out to flash (disk) when its not used much
Oct 29 07:46:14 <jacekowski> kwtm: that's more than any other phone on the market
Oct 29 07:46:22 <kwtm> raster: Please tell me the Samsung Linux Phone has at least 1G of RAM.  Like, *real* RAM....
Oct 29 07:46:22 <raster> to make room for new data that needs active ram
Oct 29 07:46:26 <jacekowski> kwtm: up until couple months ago
Oct 29 07:46:32 <jacekowski> kwtm: because new iphone has 512M
Oct 29 07:46:34 <raster> swap is LOTs LOTS LOTs LOTs slower than ram
Oct 29 07:46:43 <jacekowski> kwtm: nope it doesn't
Oct 29 07:46:45 <raster> like 100's of times slower
Oct 29 07:47:07 <raster> ram is costly
Oct 29 07:47:09 <kwtm> jacekowski: Oh, are you on the Samsung Linux Phone team, too?  Great!
Oct 29 07:47:11 <raster> it makes the phone more expensive
Oct 29 07:47:16 <raster> but it also makes power drain worse
Oct 29 07:47:18 <jacekowski> kwtm: no but i read the news
Oct 29 07:47:26 <jacekowski> kwtm: it's not yet released
Oct 29 07:47:31 <raster> jacekowski: whatever we have wont be in the news :)
Oct 29 07:47:35 <jacekowski> kwtm: so it's just all marketing
Oct 29 07:47:42 <kwtm> raster: "More expensive"!?  I paid 3 times the cost for the N900 compared to the other dummfones --it had BETTER have a bit more RAM in it! :P
Oct 29 07:47:46 <raster> or marketing
Oct 29 07:47:49 <kwtm> oh, baby crying b ack soon
Oct 29 07:47:50 <jacekowski> kwtm: n900 was designed over year ago
Oct 29 07:47:59 <raster> kwtm: n900 is cheapish
Oct 29 07:48:07 <raster> $500 or so is good
Oct 29 07:48:13 <jacekowski> kwtm: and had 3-4 times more ram than any other phone
Oct 29 07:48:17 <jacekowski> kwtm: at the time
Oct 29 07:48:19 <raster> dumbphones will still cost $200 or so
Oct 29 07:50:41 <raster> i've seen enough dumbphones cost > $1000
Oct 29 07:50:56 <jacekowski> sat dumbphones?
Oct 29 07:51:00 <raster> no
Oct 29 07:51:12 <raster> just overpriced trendy ones
Oct 29 07:51:50 <raster> and just after release
Oct 29 07:52:21 <Myrtti> Nokia 5230's are a tad over 100€ in Finland
Oct 29 07:52:32 <Myrtti> they're crappy, plastic but in theory they're smartphones
Oct 29 07:52:34 <dRbiG> gosh, i guess that if you wanted a fancy phone you should've went with an iphone
Oct 29 07:52:40 <dRbiG> its fancy, it works
Oct 29 07:54:15 <dRbiG> you can buy a shitload of apps for it and if they happen not to work you always have the right to complain
Oct 29 07:54:21 <dRbiG> :)
Oct 29 07:55:16 <raster> i wouldnt spend $1k on a dumbphone
Oct 29 07:55:30 <jacekowski> raster: sat phone
Oct 29 07:55:42 <raster> wouldnt buy one of them either
Oct 29 07:55:42 <raster> :)
Oct 29 07:56:22 <ruskie> fun flasher doesn't want to flash my device
Oct 29 07:58:02 <rmrfchik> damn, recaller still wash away widgets from desktop
Oct 29 07:58:22 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Oct 29 07:58:41 <rmrfchik> and in PR1.3 ringtond (from custom ringtones) used to die.
Oct 29 08:00:37 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: just flash whole image
Oct 29 08:00:43 <ebzzry> ruskie: I always get "SSL connection timeout" errors
Oct 29 08:00:46 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: or flash device specific version
Oct 29 08:00:58 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: i'm not sure which version of phone you've got
Oct 29 08:01:07 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: i've got a pre-production model.
Oct 29 08:01:34 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: HWID: 2001 Build: F4
Oct 29 08:07:31 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: hmm, that's a bit tricky then
Oct 29 08:08:29 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: i couldn't find _any_ source describing the pre-production models, neither do i know _anything_ about that cryptic bootloader scheme, so i have no idea which parts and why might i need to flash.
Oct 29 08:08:57 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: why aren't you flashing full fiasco image?
Oct 29 08:09:32 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: i can't because the bootloader parts do not match some "versions" or something like that.
Oct 29 08:09:47 <X-Fade> PaulFertser: You need a legacy image then.
Oct 29 08:09:48 <jacekowski> ah
Oct 29 08:10:07 <X-Fade> PaulFertser: As your contact at nokia for that?
Oct 29 08:10:19 <PaulFertser> X-Fade: i want to be on the PR1.3, not on the legacy image
Oct 29 08:10:39 <X-Fade> PaulFertser: You have a legacy device, you need PR1.3 legacy.
Oct 29 08:10:50 <jacekowski> X-Fade: you can leave old bootloader
Oct 29 08:10:55 <jacekowski> and just flash rootfs
Oct 29 08:11:01 <X-Fade> PaulFertser: That is a different fiasco packaged for legacy devices.
Oct 29 08:11:02 <jacekowski> and possibly rapuyama
Oct 29 08:11:12 <PaulFertser> X-Fade: why do you think there exist any? Also i'm told this particular version is not far from the production models (probably nothing different at all).
Oct 29 08:11:15 <X-Fade> Yeah, that too. But there is an easy solution too ;)
Oct 29 08:11:21 <X-Fade> PaulFertser: I run it :)
Oct 29 08:11:24 <ruskie> ebzzry, hmm tried opening it in a browser?
Oct 29 08:11:34 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: just flash rootfs
Oct 29 08:11:36 <PaulFertser> X-Fade: eh, sorry, what do you run?
Oct 29 08:11:37 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: and see how it goes
Oct 29 08:11:43 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: it may work
Oct 29 08:11:47 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: what about the kernel?
Oct 29 08:11:50 <jacekowski> and kernel
Oct 29 08:11:58 <jacekowski> kernel and rootfs
Oct 29 08:12:03 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: that's exactly what i did.
Oct 29 08:12:06 <jacekowski> and leave rapyuama and bootloader intact
Oct 29 08:12:10 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: does it work?
Oct 29 08:12:41 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: at least i see no oddities. But since pr1.3 has other parts bundled, that made me wonder why they included those.
Oct 29 08:13:11 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: they always do
Oct 29 08:13:29 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: fiasco image can be used for coldflash of dead device
Oct 29 08:13:33 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: always reflash bootloader even if there're no changes and zero need?
Oct 29 08:13:47 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: they sometimes fix some bugs
Oct 29 08:13:58 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: that's exactly what i'm worried about.
Oct 29 08:14:03 <jacekowski> like 1.2 bootloader had blocked hardware encryption acceleration
Oct 29 08:14:06 <ebzzry> ruskie: Yes, but the page doesn't load.
Oct 29 08:14:13 <PaulFertser> (that my old BL version has some unfixed bugs)
Oct 29 08:14:18 <jacekowski> but as far as i looked at new and old bootloder
Oct 29 08:14:24 <jacekowski> there is nothing there
Oct 29 08:14:31 <ebzzry> ruskie: Do you have a .deb of curl instead?
Oct 29 08:15:04 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: are you a community member with some nice reversing skills or do you have some information from nokia?
Oct 29 08:16:02 <ebzzry> ruskie: Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer
Oct 29 08:20:26 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: nah, i reversed it myself
Oct 29 08:21:50 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: that's rather cool. Do you think it might make sense that you share some of your knowledge so that proper support of backing up (and flashing from the device) kernel would be added to 0xFFFF (as it doesn't seem to be functional now).
Oct 29 08:24:04 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: i could
Oct 29 08:24:17 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: but it's complicated from legal side
Oct 29 08:24:29 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: i mean e.g. debian folks would be glad to be able to reflash the kernel.
Oct 29 08:25:19 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: isn't it legal if you just outline some "specs" and e.g. i provide a patch for 0xffff?
Oct 29 08:25:21 <jacekowski> who's the person writing 0xffff?
Oct 29 08:25:32 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: i can't write ANY code for it to be legal
Oct 29 08:25:38 <ebzzry> ruskie: ?
Oct 29 08:25:53 <jacekowski> specs are only acceptable way
Oct 29 08:25:54 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: so do not write it, just write some specs.
Oct 29 08:26:23 <jacekowski> and even then it's scratching surface of copyright breach
Oct 29 08:26:27 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: "pancake" is the author, whoever that is.
Oct 29 08:27:05 <jacekowski> but i personally don't get idea why rewrite something that's working
Oct 29 08:27:06 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: i do not think memory layout and stuff like that (header etc) can be copyrighted at all.
Oct 29 08:27:27 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: but software itself is copyrighted
Oct 29 08:27:47 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: well, the thing is: it doesn't work. I do not know any way to backup currently used kernel. And i know no way to flash the kernel in some, say post-inst script for a debian package.
Oct 29 08:27:52 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: and writing same software based on reverse engineered software is very illegal
Oct 29 08:28:11 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: and doing it by passing specs between person doing RE and writing code
Oct 29 08:28:12 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: software is copyrighted but as long as you do not post some disassembled source, you're not breaching anything afaict
Oct 29 08:28:25 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: is just moving it from very illegal to barely legal
Oct 29 08:28:39 * RST38h sighs
Oct 29 08:28:54 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: there're plenty of examples when people did that (clean-room reimplementation) and nobody ever complained.
Oct 29 08:28:56 <RST38h> Have we got two uberlawyers in the room, gentlemen? =)
Oct 29 08:29:11 <jacekowski> nope
Oct 29 08:29:23 <_trine> Philadelphia lawyers I think
Oct 29 08:29:38 <PaulFertser> RST38h: do you know a way to flash a new kernel automatically after apt-get upgrade on the device?
Oct 29 08:29:40 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: anyways, thing is that you can get kernel directly from mtd
Oct 29 08:29:48 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: yes
Oct 29 08:29:50 <jacekowski> PaulFertser: nokia flasher
Oct 29 08:29:58 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: doesn't work for _debian_..
Oct 29 08:30:48 <jacekowski> but i think on device flasher works differently to usb flasher
Oct 29 08:31:33 <RST38h> Paul: I do not, but it is possible apparently
Oct 29 08:31:42 <RST38h> Paul: PR1.2 did it, afaik
Oct 29 08:31:44 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: (dump from mtd) for that i'd need to know the right offsets and header format (how much should i dump). And for flashing one should provide some data structures so the bootloader would be happy.
Oct 29 08:32:07 <RST38h> After it restarted the device, it showed a slightly different Nokia logo and a progress bar underneath
Oct 29 08:32:13 <PaulFertser> RST38h: not in a way suitable for Debian, as they've used the proprietary nokia flasher.
Oct 29 08:32:22 <RST38h> Screw Debian
Oct 29 08:32:30 <RST38h> You are using Maemo not Debian
Oct 29 08:32:45 <PaulFertser> But i care about those who does use Debian.
Oct 29 08:32:58 <PaulFertser> And i care for functional 0xFFFF.
Oct 29 08:33:20 <Venemo_N900> does ringtoned work on PR 1.3?
Oct 29 08:33:29 <RST38h> Well, then you can continue caring about those who use Debian and their funny legal issues
Oct 29 08:33:52 <PaulFertser> RST38h: btw, i think that the logo and "progress bar" come from some other parts, not from the kernel.
Oct 29 08:34:12 <jacekowski> hmm that's possible
Oct 29 08:34:19 <RST38h> Paul: I think they come from some flasher program that PR install has scheduled to run at startup and update the kernel
Oct 29 08:34:22 <jacekowski> that flasher writes kernel to some staging area
Oct 29 08:34:45 <jacekowski> and nolo flashes it to wherever required
Oct 29 08:35:28 <PaulFertser> RST38h: please notice how that's _you_ calling things that are very important for many honourable people "funny legal issues".
Oct 29 08:36:01 <Stskeeps> are we talking about debian-legal being honourable people? ;)
Oct 29 08:36:25 <jacekowski> because these are funny legal issues
Oct 29 08:37:51 <PaulFertser> Guys, i came to get some support wrt bootloader. Not to be bullied again for being (relatively) sane and honest.
Oct 29 08:39:17 <jacekowski> thing is that we don't believe that debian-legal issues are sane
Oct 29 08:39:48 <X-Fade> PaulFertser: Why don't you take my advice and ask your contact at Nokia for a PR1.3 legacy image.
Oct 29 08:39:58 <X-Fade> PaulFertser: A lot easier and it will work :)
Oct 29 08:40:31 <PaulFertser> jacekowski: you're dragging me into a conversation about "this world is so insane that you even can not notice it anymore" etc etc. Sorry, i'd prefer to discuss specs or mtd layout or anything not so flamous.
Oct 29 08:41:00 <PaulFertser> X-Fade: i have no contact at Nokia, only Quim, but he doesn't seem to be knowledgeable about BLs.
Oct 29 08:41:38 <Stskeeps> just say 'firmware image matching the prototype, ie, a LEGACY image' and he'd probably know what to do..
Oct 29 08:41:54 <PaulFertser> Stskeeps: i guess he'll get me the original pre-MP image if i ask him.
Oct 29 08:42:13 <PaulFertser> Stskeeps: also it makes zero sense to bother him about full image when i only need some _info_ about the bootloader.
Oct 29 08:42:16 <X-Fade> PaulFertser: No, he is not dumb ;) This is a well known thing inside.
Oct 29 08:42:48 <Stskeeps> PaulFertser: well, the legacy has bootloader/cmt support for those particular hardwares
Oct 29 08:42:55 <X-Fade> Anyway, good luck ;)
Oct 29 08:43:20 <PaulFertser> X-Fade: i never implied he's dumb. I'm sure he's not. But i hasn't seen a single line of code from him either.
Oct 29 08:43:29 <Stskeeps> PaulFertser: and easiest way to get those is well, asking for a legacy image
Oct 29 08:43:30 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 29 08:45:18 * PaulFertser goes back to playing with fucking musb hardware state machine
Oct 29 08:54:20 <iksaif> anyone with some time to test an app ? lugdulov (0.3, in extra-dev, need PR 1.3) seems to crash on some devices, but I can't reproduce it. If anyone could reproduce that and give me a backtrace it would be great !
Oct 29 08:57:27 <PaulFertser> iksaif: let me try
Oct 29 08:59:13 <PaulFertser> iksaif: yes, reproduced here.
Oct 29 08:59:21 <PaulFertser> iksaif: i'll provide you with BT soon.
Oct 29 08:59:53 <Coke> Hey guys. Trying to get the latest update in, but it says I need some PC suite yada. I'm on 64-bit linux so that shit ain't gonna happen, how do I get past this backup nonsense?
Oct 29 09:00:16 <Coke> Is there a workaround or can I just ignore all future upgrades?
Oct 29 09:00:54 <iksaif> PaulFertser: thanks :)
Oct 29 09:00:55 <PaulFertser> iksaif: here it is: http://paste.debian.net/98584/
Oct 29 09:01:47 <Coke> Reading forums I see mixed replies. Some say it has to do with rootfs being full, uninstall all custom apps and continue from there. Some other says there's no need and that it "just worked" without PC suite and backups.
Oct 29 09:01:58 <iksaif> hum this seems to come from QtLocation/liblocation
Oct 29 09:02:12 <iksaif> PaulFertser: could you send me a dpkg -l | grep -i location ?
Oct 29 09:03:13 <PaulFertser> iksaif: http://paste.debian.net/98586/
Oct 29 09:04:56 <iksaif> hum, same version :/
Oct 29 09:05:18 <PaulFertser> iksaif: bike sharing? sounds interesting :)
Oct 29 09:06:17 <iksaif> yeah .. but also sounds broken :p
Oct 29 09:06:44 <iksaif> but bike sharing like "city bike sharing services", most big cities have one
Oct 29 09:07:59 <PaulFertser> iksaif: hey, i started "nokia maps" and then lugdulov and it didn't segfault this time.
Oct 29 09:09:00 <iksaif> yep ... this seems to be a bug related to QtLocation  / liblocation
Oct 29 09:09:16 <iksaif> but I don't know why it works on my device :/
Oct 29 09:09:34 <frals> Coke: it should say what the update conflicts with if you click details
Oct 29 09:10:07 <Coke> i dont have that option
Oct 29 09:10:12 <Coke> I only have "Create backup" or cancel
Oct 29 09:10:23 <PaulFertser> iksaif: after stopping nokia maps same sefgault.
Oct 29 09:10:27 <Coke> wait. I uninstalled all extra apps and it actually continues
Oct 29 09:10:35 <frals> cancel it and go to app manager and long tap on the update -> details
Oct 29 09:10:39 <Coke> What is the disk size on the N900, less than 2Gb ?
Oct 29 09:10:48 <Coke> 1?
Oct 29 09:10:57 <frals> df -h will tell you
Oct 29 09:11:08 <frals> 256mb rootfs or something, 2gb /opt, i *think*
Oct 29 09:11:29 <Coke> Hm, no wonder it's such a pain, only 256m
Oct 29 09:11:47 <Coke> well, I just uninstalled everything not necessary
Oct 29 09:11:51 <iksaif> PaulFertser: do you have any other app using qtm-location ?
Oct 29 09:11:51 <Coke> Seems to be downloading OK now.
Oct 29 09:12:08 <PaulFertser> iksaif: i've no idea :)
Oct 29 09:12:13 <PaulFertser> iksaif: btw, can this be related: http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?202073-Mobility-location-in-Maemo-not-working ?
Oct 29 09:13:00 <Coke> frals: any easy way of increasing the rootfs size?
Oct 29 09:13:29 <iksaif> PaulFertser: the backtrace looks the same, but the issue wasn't here on PR 1.2 :/
Oct 29 09:13:56 <frals> Coke: unless you want to resolder a new nand chip, i dont think so? could probably hack around it with mountpoints, i think theres a wiki page about it
Oct 29 09:14:29 <Coke> frals: nah. i guess i'll just have to get used to not having apps on it
Oct 29 09:14:43 <Coke> I guess the old iPhone4 mantra "it has apps" is finally paying of for the Apple fanboys
Oct 29 09:15:05 <PaulFertser> iksaif: still that discussion looks related. Well, i'm open to do more tests, feel free to ping me.
Oct 29 09:15:34 <iksaif> ok thanks
Oct 29 09:16:11 <Coke> frals: hm, perhaps I can simply change the place where dpkg puts cached packages
Oct 29 09:16:57 <frals> Coke: most apps should be installed to /opt/ so its not really an issue
Oct 29 09:17:08 <frals> unless someone fucked up, but then it shouldnt be in extras/ovi :p
Oct 29 09:17:15 <frals> and if its not in extras/ovi its not supproted, etc ;)
Oct 29 09:17:28 <Coke> frals: i use extras
Oct 29 09:17:35 <Coke> but I just assume they use /opt as well
Oct 29 09:17:54 <Coke> OVI, I wouldn't touch it.
Oct 29 09:18:11 <Coke> Having a full linux system on your phone and still insisting on running non-free apps just seems counter productive to me. :)
Oct 29 09:19:12 <Coke> the package manager is getting on my last nerve tho. never seen a system with so few packages installed so incredibly slow. not sure if it's a problem with the disk or if someone put sleep(3000) syscall in some loop
Oct 29 09:19:23 <iksaif> PaulFertser: just a question, before the crash: do you see any gps related message ? is the icon blinjing ?
Oct 29 09:19:44 <PaulFertser> iksaif: i'm not looking at the screen, i'm using ssh over wifi :)
Oct 29 09:19:53 <frals> Coke: if you have some experience using debian id suggest using apt instead, thats what i do :P
Oct 29 09:20:18 <PaulFertser> iksaif: this might give more clues: http://paste.debian.net/98587/
Oct 29 09:20:47 <Coke> frals: is it faster than the app manager?
Oct 29 09:21:13 <Coke> frals: and, yes, while we are trying to migrate away from debian here we still have two boxes. I was a devout Debian fan, maybe 4-5 years ago.
Oct 29 09:21:15 <frals> yes, it skips a bunch of extra checks that ham does and well, you dont get the ui annoyance :P
Oct 29 09:21:32 <sivang> morning all
Oct 29 09:21:59 <iksaif> PaulFertser: thanks, I'll try to investigate using your bt
Oct 29 09:22:04 <sivang> hey frals, others
Oct 29 09:22:56 <Coke> frals: luckily, Maemo only use the package manager, not the package maintainers. :)
Oct 29 09:23:13 <sivang> Coke: is this about the PR1.3 conflict upgrade?
Oct 29 09:23:23 <Coke> sivang: i think that's taken care of, actually.
Oct 29 09:23:24 * sivang apologizes to jump into the discussion
Oct 29 09:23:28 <Coke> I just uninstalled everything I had installed from extra
Oct 29 09:23:29 <sivang> Coke: It was?
Oct 29 09:23:48 <Coke> sivang: yes. I pressume I just had to free up some rootfs space
Oct 29 09:23:50 <sivang> Coke: and it work? I hear a lot of reports about 1.3 breaking many things so I was a bit scared to try it
Oct 29 09:23:58 <Coke> sivang: Oh, it isn't finished yet
Oct 29 09:24:10 <Coke> Even though it's upgrading, the package system is just horribly slow
Oct 29 09:24:22 <sivang> Coke: there was reported to be a conflicting packages, qt tests something etc.
Oct 29 09:24:29 <Coke> Been about 30 minutes of just "checking for updates", "downloading" and "installing"
Oct 29 09:24:32 <sivang> Coke: I forgot what it was but lbt_ had to remove it to have it run
Oct 29 09:24:43 <lbt_> mmm
Oct 29 09:24:47 <Coke> sivang: ill continue to install and get back to you in like 30 minutes with the results
Oct 29 09:24:56 <lbt_> ah
Oct 29 09:24:58 <lbt_> gltron
Oct 29 09:24:58 <sivang> Coke: Yes, same here, I just stopped it in the middle reading the comments on #maemo about what upgrade did to several folks, I'll wait for a fix
Oct 29 09:25:28 <lbt_> a recent post on maemo-planet found some others
Oct 29 09:25:41 <sivang> lbt_: I would say we should have a page on the wiki with all pitfalls of the upgrade and strong warning
Oct 29 09:26:07 <sivang> lbt_: just because the update manager blinks that yellow icon does not mean peeople should blindly upgrade I guess :)
Oct 29 09:26:40 <lbt_> well, it should also report the apps that depend on things that conflict :)
Oct 29 09:26:42 <sivang> lbt_: like https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11480
Oct 29 09:26:43 <povbot> Bug 11480: PR1.3 broke libclutter-1.4, bug in file libGLESv2.so
Oct 29 09:27:23 <lbt_> one should be able to do a root-cause (in deb-land) as you have the concept of 'auto-installed-to-satisfy-dependencies'
Oct 29 09:27:24 <chem|st> Coke: I got 100+ apps installed and 68.8MB 69%used at /
Oct 29 09:27:28 <sivang> lbt_: yes, or those that are going to possibly 'break'
Oct 29 09:27:45 <sivang> lbt_: I hope this will be better for MeeGo
Oct 29 09:27:59 * sivang adds HAM to discussion points at talk
Oct 29 09:28:14 <lbt_> sivang: not sure ... but the feature is important
Oct 29 09:28:25 <chem|st> Coke: unoptified devel will fill that up pretty fast sure
Oct 29 09:28:32 <lbt_> of coursr meego compliance means that apps can't have deps
Oct 29 09:28:48 <lbt_> so the app mgr doesn't have to deal with them
Oct 29 09:28:51 <lbt_> so it won't
Oct 29 09:28:58 <lbt_> so it'll all break horribly
Oct 29 09:29:04 <sivang> interesting
Oct 29 09:29:05 * lbt_ is such a realist ;)
Oct 29 09:29:09 <X-Fade> Yeah, that is bad/sad.
Oct 29 09:29:09 <sivang> lbt_: hehe
Oct 29 09:29:24 <chem|st> lbt_: it does in info (tell what conflicts)
Oct 29 09:29:27 <sivang> X-Fade: At least it will *prevent* release managers from releasing breaking/broken stuff
Oct 29 09:29:41 <sivang> or at least, so I hope.
Oct 29 09:30:40 <sivang> It is getting harder and harder to defend Maemo/N900 with this sort of things happening. My N900 fan boss recently left for iPhone... he said "I need a phone that works". :-/
Oct 29 09:31:03 <PaulFertser> iksaif: heh, is that liblocation0 proprietary?
Oct 29 09:31:14 <sivang> anyway- enough ranting, on to productive work!
Oct 29 09:31:29 * sivang is sure 1.3 will get some maintainance fixes soon
Oct 29 09:31:46 <Robot101> lbt_: meego... apps... no... deps... what?!
Oct 29 09:31:55 <sivang> when they will be out, I'll tell him to upgrade- he waits for my word on it and my half educated advice was to wait with it, given the reports
Oct 29 09:32:02 <Robot101> lbt_: because that works so well on macos?
Oct 29 09:32:04 <sivang> Robot101: Surprised as you
Oct 29 09:32:15 <lbt_> Robot101: read the backlog... :)
Oct 29 09:32:20 <lbt_> oh
Oct 29 09:32:24 <lbt_> you mean compliance?
Oct 29 09:32:33 <sivang> lbt_: so everything has to be slef contained and use only what's already installed on the device?
Oct 29 09:32:42 <lbt_> yeah... you can only depend on stuff on the device
Oct 29 09:32:50 <Stskeeps> if you want to be compliant..
Oct 29 09:32:50 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 29 09:32:52 <lbt_> which means theres' no conflicts
Oct 29 09:32:54 <Stskeeps> doesn't mean it doesn't work
Oct 29 09:32:55 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 29 09:33:04 <X-Fade> So you can have 20 times the same lib on your device. :)
Oct 29 09:33:16 <lbt_> and no conflict resolution required for an app-mgr that only deals with "compliant" apps :)
Oct 29 09:33:20 <PaulFertser> RST38h: now you might want to explain to iksaif how to debug a segfault inside a library for which "apt-get source" doesn't work. :|
Oct 29 09:33:21 <frals> uh, what kind of issues with 1.3? not encountered any at all since i installed it
Oct 29 09:33:22 <lbt_> which is what the feature will be
Oct 29 09:33:33 <lbt_> so the bug fixes will be marked "wishlist"
Oct 29 09:34:29 <lbt_> Robot101, Stskeeps... at least, I can see that as being a knock-on effect of the compliance issue.
Oct 29 09:34:46 <sivang> X-Fade: why 20 times?
Oct 29 09:35:06 <X-Fade> sivang: Each app has to pack it's own 3rd partly libs then.
Oct 29 09:35:15 <lcuk> will we see soft dependencies and dlsym!
Oct 29 09:35:26 <lcuk> ? even
Oct 29 09:35:27 <sivang> hmm.... feels like, feels like..... Symbian? :-P
Oct 29 09:35:32 <X-Fade> sivang: So if you have something that is really common, but not in meego, you will have it a lot of times on device.
Oct 29 09:36:07 <sivang> X-Fade: and then rootfs will be out of space and I will need to do manual seasoned linux admin space freeing?
Oct 29 09:36:13 <sivang> nice :)
Oct 29 09:36:40 <X-Fade> sivang: Well, I guess that app storage and root will be separated. If they have thought it through ;)
Oct 29 09:36:52 <sivang> X-Fade: Can this be made sure?
Oct 29 09:37:03 <X-Fade> Don't look at me ;)
Oct 29 09:37:30 <lbt_> there are definite +ves to having a category of "will work" apps... the problem is that the wording is hugely antagonistic to all other categories
Oct 29 09:38:02 <sivang> well, at least this means we still have a world of work to do :)
Oct 29 09:38:31 <lbt_> it strongly suggests that all othe apps are "not meego compliant" ... when a marketing/product manager sees that they will immediately dismiss such apps.
Oct 29 09:38:46 <PaulFertser> iksaif: in fact i'm not fair enough, it seems its QtMobility::LiblocationWrapper::start gives wrong address (0x08) to gpsd_start.
Oct 29 09:38:46 <lbt_> and *that* screws the pooch
Oct 29 09:39:02 <PaulFertser> iksaif: to location_gpsd_control_start
Oct 29 09:41:40 <sivang> lbt: right
Oct 29 09:42:30 <sivang> lbt: and for an app to be deemed compliant it has to pass the compliance tests as in the acceptance testing of images?
Oct 29 09:42:51 <sivang> lbt: or just be scanned for its deps, and rejected if deps are outside of system's runime?
Oct 29 09:42:55 <sivang> *runtime
Oct 29 09:43:34 <Jucato> is there a sort of recovery (terminal) mode for the n900? :D
Oct 29 09:43:58 <X-Fade> sivang: That depends, but checking deps is easy.
Oct 29 09:44:03 <sivang> X-Fade: true
Oct 29 09:44:08 * sivang moves this to #meego-dev
Oct 29 09:44:50 <sivang> err, to #meego, preferably
Oct 29 09:46:03 <chem|st> does for anyone the automatic time update work? my clock is about 7minutes ahead
Oct 29 09:46:28 <phellarv> chem|st: ntpdate?
Oct 29 09:46:32 <phellarv> or ntpd
Oct 29 09:47:15 <jacekowski> chem|st: use gps
Oct 29 09:47:29 <sivang> frals: there were some
Oct 29 09:47:45 <sivang> frals: messaging ui borking, clutter stuff, broken deps :)
Oct 29 09:48:15 <chem|st> jacekowski: how does the clock automatic update work without gps?
Oct 29 09:48:20 <sivang> Sabach El Noor MohammadAG :)
Oct 29 09:48:33 <MohammadAG> morning sivang :)
Oct 29 09:48:38 <sivang> MohammadAG: although it is almost noon :)
Oct 29 09:48:50 <MohammadAG> it's IRC, isn't it :)
Oct 29 09:48:56 <sivang> it is :)
Oct 29 09:49:10 <tybollt> hmm
Oct 29 09:49:17 <jacekowski> chem|st: it doesn't
Oct 29 09:49:24 <jacekowski> chem|st: it needs gsp
Oct 29 09:49:31 <chem|st> jacekowski: so only gps...
Oct 29 09:49:38 <tybollt> anyone successfully sent contacts via sms from N900 to a android phone?
Oct 29 09:50:03 <chem|st> well my last use was about 6 days ago makes 1 minute off a day
Oct 29 09:50:27 <PaulFertser> iksaif: the problem is rather somewhere in QtMobility::LiblocationWrapper that supplies some wrong pointer instead of the result of the liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default()
Oct 29 09:51:14 <chem|st> tybollt: nope
Oct 29 09:51:36 <chem|st> tybollt: but afair BT did work
Oct 29 09:51:42 <tybollt> olrite
Oct 29 09:51:49 <PaulFertser> iksaif: in fact liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default is not getting called at all.
Oct 29 09:52:27 <tybollt> I sent this contact to missus android several times - every single sms was received (receive verification) but she says her phone didn't receive anything...
Oct 29 09:52:30 <tybollt> weird
Oct 29 09:52:55 <chem|st> tybollt: don't know realy but I think it is an android problem as you send std vcards with n900
Oct 29 09:54:12 <chem|st> tybollt: have you tried detail and card?
Oct 29 09:54:35 <tybollt> probably android
Oct 29 09:55:03 <tybollt> I bet; the vcard is detected and redirected verbatim by Googlers to googlers.
Oct 29 09:55:09 <chem|st> as detail sends maximum a single sms but card might be 2
Oct 29 09:55:23 <chem|st> tybollt: google it ;)
Oct 29 09:56:48 <PaulFertser> iksaif: do you like this trick? ;) http://paste.debian.net/98596/
Oct 29 09:59:15 <chem|st> jacekowski: ok gps is on and time is still ahead (for minutes), is there a way to trigger it?
Oct 29 10:00:27 <jacekowski> it should update as soon as it gets lock
Oct 29 10:01:02 <chem|st> ok then there is something wrong!
Oct 29 10:01:43 <chem|st> I tried Nokia maps, gps-testing env from nokia, gpsjini and so on...
Oct 29 10:01:53 <chem|st> 12:04 still
Oct 29 10:02:42 <ieatlint> the phone can update its clock via gps?
Oct 29 10:02:47 <lcuk> o_O tracy just came to me after a google image search for "scary pumpkin faces" with a really dodgy site from the !first! image result o_O
Oct 29 10:03:26 <ieatlint> i didn't know it had support for using that... awesome
Oct 29 10:03:35 <ieatlint> thought it could only use the cell tower's clock
Oct 29 10:03:49 <chem|st> ieatlint: no it cant! grml
Oct 29 10:04:32 <chem|st> ieatlint: cell tower would be a good idea but mine does not update anything... I am 7 minutes off and dont know why
Oct 29 10:04:55 <ieatlint> well, i know it works with the cell tower
Oct 29 10:05:10 <ieatlint> perhaps your cell tower is 7 minutes off, heh
Oct 29 10:06:13 <chem|st> just trying that... but a friend of mine, about 400m away has exact time
Oct 29 10:06:45 <chem|st> ok time is not getting updated at all
Oct 29 10:06:56 <chem|st> set to 11:57 now
Oct 29 10:06:58 <ieatlint> huh, well, i can find nothing that supports the idea that maemo 5 does support updating system time from gps
Oct 29 10:07:13 <PaulFertser> iksaif: do you ever call QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo::init ?
Oct 29 10:07:35 <ieatlint> but apparently ntp is in the repos, and it's definitely possible to find or write an app that will get a gps lock and set the time from it
Oct 29 10:07:56 <ieatlint> if you have data, ntp is easier/faster/more reliable
Oct 29 10:08:09 <ieatlint> (by reliable, i mean you can't always get a gps lock)
Oct 29 10:08:16 <iksaif> PaulFertser: sorry I was afk
Oct 29 10:10:02 <iksaif> PaulFertser: this function should by called by QtMobility
Oct 29 10:10:15 <iksaif> all I do is ask QtLocation  for the default localisation device
Oct 29 10:10:58 <ieatlint> PaulFertser: i'm curious, you reference QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo::init ... i've been using qtmobility 1.0 on the n900, and there is no maemo specific class to my knowledge (and QGeoPositionInfoSource has no init() method)
Oct 29 10:11:58 <PaulFertser> ieatlint: hm, so that might well be the reason.
Oct 29 10:12:19 <PaulFertser> ieatlint: look at http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/src/location/qgeopositioninfosource.cpp
Oct 29 10:12:22 <ieatlint> i'm pulling up the qtmobility 1.1 docs... suppose i should be looking at them now
Oct 29 10:12:30 <PaulFertser> ieatlint: nah, the source is better ;)
Oct 29 10:12:38 <ieatlint> hah, right :P
Oct 29 10:12:46 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, pin
Oct 29 10:12:47 <MohammadAG> g
Oct 29 10:12:50 <ieatlint> anywhere in particular in that file?
Oct 29 10:13:10 <iksaif> PaulFertser: qt-mobility git is 1.2, maemo use 1.0.2
Oct 29 10:13:13 <ieatlint> ah, i see it referencing QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo
Oct 29 10:13:14 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: pong
Oct 29 10:13:24 <PaulFertser> iksaif: too bad for maemo :)
Oct 29 10:13:44 <ieatlint> i'd guess that's the maemo implementation for qtmobility location services...
Oct 29 10:14:00 <ieatlint> meant to be only used by qtmobility, and not by app devs
Oct 29 10:14:04 <iksaif> I should fill a bug report, but first I need to be able to reproduce the issue on a small test case
Oct 29 10:14:28 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, I got the repository set up, but HAM's ignoring community-ssu-enabler
Oct 29 10:14:37 <iksaif> and I'm not able to reproduce the crash on lugdulov .. maybe you have some special settings for your gps?
Oct 29 10:14:42 <PaulFertser> iksaif: the strange thing is that some other apps (maemo maps) are able to somehow influence this process and they call proper functions.
Oct 29 10:14:48 <PaulFertser> iksaif: not that i know of.
Oct 29 10:14:58 <DocScrutinizer> ~xyawn
Oct 29 10:14:59 <infobot> i guess xyawn is big coffee
Oct 29 10:15:06 <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Is it in a user/* section?
Oct 29 10:15:12 <iksaif> time to eat, be back later
Oct 29 10:15:34 <MohammadAG> Section: user/system
Oct 29 10:15:40 <MohammadAG> not that it should matter
Oct 29 10:15:59 <ieatlint> PaulFertser: ah, i actually only just now scrolled up to see the full details of what you're talking about
Oct 29 10:16:02 <MohammadAG> it says ignoring version from wrong domain
Oct 29 10:16:40 <ieatlint> you're issue is that on maemo5, sometimes using qtm-location will cause a segfault, sometimes it will never launch liblocation and even try to get a lock, and sometimes it will work perfectly
Oct 29 10:16:47 <ieatlint> right?
Oct 29 10:16:57 <MohammadAG> X-Fade, can you see if the .install file works for you?
Oct 29 10:17:06 <PaulFertser> ieatlint: not exactly, iksaif wrote an app on his own that tries to use location services.
Oct 29 10:17:45 <PaulFertser> ieatlint: the 1.0 branch looks the same
Oct 29 10:18:21 <ieatlint> any of that match?
Oct 29 10:19:08 <chem|st> openntp installed...
Oct 29 10:19:11 <PaulFertser> ieatlint: hm, what do you mean?
Oct 29 10:20:28 <ieatlint> i mean when you try to get a lock, with QGeoPositionSource::createDefaultSource() and then the startUpdates() method, it does not reliably start the gps device
Oct 29 10:22:22 <jarkkom> hmm, that seems weird, I've written couple of apps and didn't see anything like that
Oct 29 10:23:14 <ieatlint> were they tiny apps?
Oct 29 10:23:20 <jarkkom> though I had some interesting bugs when I was drawing map and GPS location fix too its time, apparently if you're drawing ellipse that is waaaaayyy offscreen device gets permanently stuck in QT rendering code :)
Oct 29 10:23:33 <jarkkom> because of uninitialized variables
Oct 29 10:23:45 <ieatlint> ok, doesn't sound like it then, hehe
Oct 29 10:24:04 <PaulFertser> ieatlint: looks like that, in the failing case the liblocation method to get default source is never called.
Oct 29 10:24:24 <jarkkom> how are you initializing your positionsource though?
Oct 29 10:24:31 <ieatlint> PaulFertser: ah.. well, i've had similar experience
Oct 29 10:24:59 <jarkkom> I mean maybe if you give it a parent QObject that then gets deleted and location source gets deleted as well?
Oct 29 10:25:03 <PaulFertser> jarkkom: localisation = QGeoPositionInfoSource::createDefaultSource(this);
Oct 29 10:25:12 <jarkkom> yeah but what is "this" in that case?
Oct 29 10:25:19 <PaulFertser> jarkkom: MainWindow
Oct 29 10:25:26 <jarkkom> shouldn't be a problem then
Oct 29 10:26:36 <PaulFertser> jarkkom: i'm telling you, i used gdb to place breakpoint on liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default and it's never called on the failing case.
Oct 29 10:26:48 <ieatlint> jarkkom: http://pastebin.com/twaUnS5s is my test app
Oct 29 10:26:57 <ieatlint> can provide the .h if you'd like
Oct 29 10:27:12 <ieatlint> (and the project file and main.cpp)
Oct 29 10:27:39 <PaulFertser> ieatlint: do you mean you can reproduce too?
Oct 29 10:27:51 <ieatlint> PaulFertser: yes, but not always
Oct 29 10:28:16 <ieatlint> i wrote an app, then tried to add a gps feature to it... and it would only work about half the time
Oct 29 10:28:44 <ieatlint> so i took the gps code, and made that test app, that just starts the gps device and prints out the lat/lon it gets
Oct 29 10:28:51 <ieatlint> to help with debugging
Oct 29 10:29:51 <jarkkom> that code looks ok though
Oct 29 10:29:51 <ieatlint> that app works for me about 80% of the time, and the other 20% it will never start location-daemon (and no gps icon appears in status bar).  it will send "updates" from the gps -- but the QGeoPositionInfo is always empty
Oct 29 10:30:21 <PaulFertser> jarkkom: probably LibLocationWrapper instance gets unreferenced somehow or something...
Oct 29 10:30:43 * alterego just found the stylesheet stuff in QML to allow you to theme stuff sort of natively :D
Oct 29 10:31:42 <DocScrutinizer> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-29.log.html#t2010-10-29T07:20:54 +++ , anybody?
Oct 29 10:31:54 <ieatlint> i haven't actually tested it since the pr1.3 update... but i know i was already running qtm-location 1.0.2, so i doubt anything was changed
Oct 29 10:33:19 <Coke> sivang: still here?
Oct 29 10:33:30 <Coke> sivang: the update was installed and after a reboot everything seems to work just fine.
Oct 29 10:33:43 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: how to run it if the screen is locked?
Oct 29 10:33:51 <Coke> sivang: at a glance, I would say that the update is safe.
Oct 29 10:34:15 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: ah, nvm, but i'm not really on stock kernel though changes are minimal and unrelated.
Oct 29 10:34:27 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: via ssh, or simply lock the screen after firing the cmd
Oct 29 10:35:34 <MohammadAG> yay, two N8s incoming
Oct 29 10:35:50 * MohammadAG ponders taking the OTG adapter, his dad won't use it
Oct 29 10:37:42 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: sorry, running a kernel modified enough here, i hope someone else will easily do that.
Oct 29 10:38:29 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: do you care if the phone is not fully charged?
Oct 29 10:38:52 <ieatlint> as in, plugged into wall charger; currently charging
Oct 29 10:39:11 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: btw, looks like the command for boostoff i use is incorrect, it doesn't cut power immediately.
Oct 29 10:39:18 <Coke> Is there some application similar to mirror that will allow me to record/snapshot/view from the front camera, but that does not require 22M of Python stuff?
Oct 29 10:39:38 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: we seem to have confirmed plugging charger makes pr1.3 kernel run CPU @ 500MHz *all the time*, while PR1.2 kernel is ok
Oct 29 10:41:04 <ieatlint> yes, my results support that
Oct 29 10:41:46 <ieatlint> not charging, 94% at 250mhz, whereas when on wall charger, 99% at 500mhz
Oct 29 10:42:00 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, isn't that the same but with a USB cable on PR1.2?
Oct 29 10:43:02 <DocScrutinizer> esp 0% in C4
Oct 29 10:46:09 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: is this the same when connected on usb?
Oct 29 10:46:32 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: I haven't tested yet
Oct 29 10:49:46 <ieatlint> grabbed my usb cable, testing now
Oct 29 10:51:29 <Venemo> hi guys
Oct 29 10:51:53 <Venemo> how is it possible to make the tracker script not to index pictures in my .sounds folder on the N900?
Oct 29 10:52:03 <Venemo> it annoys me to see the album arts in the photos app
Oct 29 10:52:09 <MohammadAG> +1 on that
Oct 29 10:52:21 <Venemo> :)
Oct 29 10:52:22 <lcuk> in the tracker config you can blacklist folders
Oct 29 10:52:30 <Venemo> ok, where's that config?
Oct 29 10:52:38 <MohammadAG> but that blacklists all media from them lcuk
Oct 29 10:52:42 <mgedmin> ~curse tracker
Oct 29 10:52:42 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, tracker !
Oct 29 10:52:49 <Venemo> ~nuke tracker
Oct 29 10:52:49 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at tracker ... B☢☢M!
Oct 29 10:53:35 <mgedmin> sanest solution would be to have a .trackerignore in each directory, listing filename patterns
Oct 29 10:53:41 <mgedmin> sort of like .gitignore
Oct 29 10:53:51 <mgedmin> does VFAT support filenames that start with a dot?
Oct 29 10:53:56 <MohammadAG> yes
Oct 29 10:54:09 <lcuk> windows does not though!
Oct 29 10:54:12 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: yeah... on usb, also appears to be always at 500mhz
Oct 29 10:54:19 <ieatlint> identical to wall charger
Oct 29 10:54:25 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: it's just 2(and a half) things I'm concerned about: it seems under PR1.3 kernel A) LiIon cell is kept floating at maximum charge voltage, which is said to kill the cell, and B) the CPU spinning empty at 500MHz, which according to Nokia HW guy (Igor?) is an absolute NoGo. Plus the half thing is about hostmode where this seems to bite us as well
Oct 29 10:54:27 <Venemo> anyways, can I do this in a sane ways right now?
Oct 29 10:54:32 * mgedmin edits ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg
Oct 29 10:55:08 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, so on a hostmode PR1.3 kernel, it always runs @ 500?
Oct 29 10:55:09 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: "the CPU spinning empty at 500MHz" where did you get this from?
Oct 29 10:55:40 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: probably on a pr1.3 kernel with vboost, yes it does
Oct 29 10:55:50 <DocScrutinizer> no matter if hostmode kernel or not
Oct 29 10:56:11 <MohammadAG> did you track down the line in kernel diff?
Oct 29 10:56:14 <mgedmin> I do not understand tracker
Oct 29 10:56:17 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo: from powertop
Oct 29 10:56:19 <SpeedEvil> on bat you mean too?
Oct 29 10:56:26 <alterego> If only Qt included an RDF parser
Oct 29 10:56:31 <mgedmin> it has WatchDirectoryRoots listing MyDocs/.sounds, .documents etc.
Oct 29 10:56:32 <ruskie> mgedmin, only need to understand enough of it to disable it ;)
Oct 29 10:56:39 <Venemo> DocScrutinizer: interesting
Oct 29 10:56:48 <mgedmin> but tracker indexes images under MyDocs/Books even though that's not listed in WatchDirectoryRoots
Oct 29 10:56:51 <alterego> And I had access to it in QML js
Oct 29 10:57:09 <ruskie> mgedmin, Watch isn't what you think it is
Oct 29 10:57:10 <lcuk> mgedmin, does it have MyDocs/ as a root itself
Oct 29 10:57:13 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: not yet tested, but it feels like a good explanation for MohammadAG 's reported powerhog in PR1.3 with hostmode
Oct 29 10:57:13 <Venemo> mgedmin: how do I block it from indexing images from .sounds?
Oct 29 10:57:20 <mgedmin> lcuk, no
Oct 29 10:57:20 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: that sounds awesome ... :(
Oct 29 10:57:22 <ruskie> iirc by default it will index the entire device
Oct 29 10:57:24 <mgedmin> ruskie, that's what I think too
Oct 29 10:57:27 <Venemo> mgedmin: keep in mind that I still want it to index sounds from .sounds
Oct 29 10:57:33 <ruskie> there's allowed and denied stuff iirc
Oct 29 10:57:34 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: you can
Oct 29 10:57:41 <SpeedEvil> Venemo: read the tracker config file
Oct 29 10:57:41 <ruskie> atm can't check since my n900 is in limbo
Oct 29 10:58:05 <SpeedEvil> ~/config/trracker/tracker.cfg
Oct 29 10:58:14 <mgedmin> s/trracker/tracker/
Oct 29 10:58:14 <SpeedEvil> excludedroots will tell it what roots not to index
Oct 29 10:58:29 <SpeedEvil> then you can include dirs and subdirs explicitly
Oct 29 10:58:57 <DocScrutinizer> and still it seems to index stuff that shouldn't - but maybe that's me and my rotten brain
Oct 29 10:59:01 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: no match for the word 'excluded' in that file
Oct 29 10:59:15 <SpeedEvil> I would suggest reading it then.
Oct 29 10:59:19 <SpeedEvil> It's not exactly long.
Oct 29 10:59:34 <mgedmin> there's NoWatchDirectory
Oct 29 10:59:43 <mgedmin> "NOT to index and NOT to watch"
Oct 29 10:59:51 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: there is WatchDirectoryRoots=$HOME/MyDocs/.sounds/;$HOME/MyDocs/.documents/;$HOME/MyDocs/.videos/;$HOME/MyDocs/.images/;$HOME/MyDocs/.camera/;
Oct 29 11:00:16 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: however if I take out .sounds, it won't index music files from there either
Oct 29 11:00:25 <SpeedEvil> take out sounds
Oct 29 11:00:36 <SpeedEvil> add the directory in sounds you want to index
Oct 29 11:00:50 <mgedmin> bloody ukeyboard tells me (with a f%@#ing modal dialog) that I can select new keyboard layouts in the settings app every f%$#ing time on upgrade
Oct 29 11:00:50 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: ok. so you don't understand
Oct 29 11:01:35 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: if I copy any album of any artist to the device, there is an album art image in there, in every folder
Oct 29 11:01:50 <SpeedEvil> ah
Oct 29 11:02:01 <Venemo> SpeedEvil: those files are created by Windows for its convenience and it regenerates them all the time so I can't delete all of 'em
Oct 29 11:02:30 <ruskie> anyone managed to load the  meego-handset-armv7l-n900 1.1 successfully?
Oct 29 11:02:38 <ruskie> I dded the raw to the microsd card
Oct 29 11:02:52 <ruskie> but it says it can't find any supported FS when booting on the phone
Oct 29 11:03:00 <mgedmin> this trackerũbereagerness wouldn't bother me if the Images app started with "filter: Camera folder" by default, instead of "All images"
Oct 29 11:03:02 <ruskie> using: flasher-3.5 -k meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.80.3.20101026.1-vmlinuz-2.6.35.3-9.5-n900 -l -b   to boot
Oct 29 11:03:45 <mgedmin> s/ũ/ü/
Oct 29 11:03:46 <infobot> mgedmin meant: this trackerübereagerness wouldn't bother me if the Images app started with "filter: Camera folder" by default, instead of "All images"
Oct 29 11:03:56 <chem|st> ruskie: yes and it's not worth it yet
Oct 29 11:03:59 <SpeedEvil> that's thumbnailer, which is seperate from tracker I think.
Oct 29 11:04:03 <ruskie> chem|st, I need it atm
Oct 29 11:04:07 <ruskie> my base kernel is dead
Oct 29 11:04:14 <ruskie> and can't restore other than booting into a secondary os
Oct 29 11:04:25 <ruskie> but I can't boot into a secondary os since it says no root device
Oct 29 11:04:40 <chem|st> ruskie: ouch
Oct 29 11:04:58 <chem|st> are you within linux or windows
Oct 29 11:05:01 <ruskie> did you do anything special to get it to work?
Oct 29 11:05:02 <ruskie> linux
Oct 29 11:05:15 <ruskie> I followed this: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC
Oct 29 11:05:43 <MohammadAG> I think you'll get better answers in #meego
Oct 29 11:06:05 <chem|st> ok the partition table should show 2 partition I think it was one logic and one extended
Oct 29 11:06:10 <ruskie> yeah
Oct 29 11:06:16 <ruskie> one is swap
Oct 29 11:06:18 <ruskie> the other btrfs
Oct 29 11:06:28 <ruskie> can mount the btrfs one here normaly
Oct 29 11:06:51 <chem|st> ok no idea go ==> #meego ...
Oct 29 11:07:15 <Coke> Any ideas why the front camera is showing a green video in mplayer?
Oct 29 11:08:06 <chem|st> Coke: you mean greenish or a lighting green?
Oct 29 11:08:22 <Coke> greenish
Oct 29 11:08:31 <Coke> tinted, sort of
Oct 29 11:08:57 <chem|st> Coke: it gets better with enough light but I don't know, in PR1.2 it was just fine afair
Oct 29 11:09:35 <chem|st> Coke: maybe adjusting settings will help
Oct 29 11:10:21 <Coke> chem|st: it's daylight here with the sun streaming in, no less than 4 flourescent tubes also
Oct 29 11:10:28 <chem|st> are there settings for tv: in mplayer is a good question...
Oct 29 11:10:29 <lcuk> merlin1991, whats this bug you noticed in browser?
Oct 29 11:10:47 <Coke> chem|st: basically, mplayer has worked fine with every v4l2 video device I ever tested it on
Oct 29 11:11:22 <chem|st> Coke: make a screenshot pls I'd like to compare with mine
Oct 29 11:11:28 <merlin1991> if the n900 is up for some time the first window with the favourites list glitches in a way that you can't scroll to the last entry, it jumps back to the 1st all the time
Oct 29 11:11:53 <Venemo> merlin1991: go to bugs.maemo.org and report it
Oct 29 11:11:55 <Coke> chem|st: that would be too much work. first snapshot image, transfer to my PC, upload to a location you can access.
Oct 29 11:12:02 <Coke> Nah. I'll just settle with the fact that it doesn't work.
Oct 29 11:12:26 <chem|st> Coke: send an email...
Oct 29 11:12:36 <Venemo> hm... what surprises me is that the N900 is thicker than the N810
Oct 29 11:12:46 <Coke> chem|st: no, but thanks for the help
Oct 29 11:12:53 <chem|st> Coke: ok ;)
Oct 29 11:13:19 <mgedmin> heavier, too, iirc
Oct 29 11:13:27 <Coke> chem|st: as a sidenote, v4l2 is rubbish. Half the controls never work and no UVC
Oct 29 11:13:34 <chem|st> Coke: the greenish here is more like a tinte
Oct 29 11:13:36 <SpeedEvil> I want UVC
Oct 29 11:13:40 <SpeedEvil> UVC would be nice.
Oct 29 11:13:43 <SpeedEvil> UVC-gadget
Oct 29 11:13:51 <Coke> SpeedEvil: you can always use the external uvcvideo driver
Oct 29 11:13:55 <Coke> and libuvc
Oct 29 11:14:00 <SpeedEvil> Plug it in, and two cameras, and a mic pop up.
Oct 29 11:14:05 <Coke> but it won't work with any normal v4l2 software
Oct 29 11:14:10 <Venemo> mgedmin: yeah, heavier too, because it is loaded with more tech
Oct 29 11:14:18 <SpeedEvil> I mean gadget UVC
Oct 29 11:14:24 <mgedmin> sweet sweet tech
Oct 29 11:14:26 <SpeedEvil> It looks like a camera to PCs you plug it into
Oct 29 11:14:27 <lcuk> Venemo, extra camera required in base unit
Oct 29 11:14:33 <Coke> Linux in general sucks big time when it comes to webcams, most of it because webcam vendors dont care about standards that much.
Oct 29 11:14:45 <mgedmin> what's uvc?
Oct 29 11:14:56 <mgedmin> ah, usb video
Oct 29 11:14:57 <Coke> universal video control or something
Oct 29 11:15:14 <mgedmin> on one hand it would be nice to have the n900 act as a web cam
Oct 29 11:15:23 <mgedmin> on the other hand, video quality is kinda crap
Oct 29 11:15:23 <Coke> mgedmin: no, not for that. :)
Oct 29 11:15:36 <Venemo> lcuk: yeah, probably that's the reason
Oct 29 11:15:36 <Coke> it was just a side note, that Linux generally suck with webcams, in particular UVC
Oct 29 11:15:46 <chem|st> SpeedEvil: that is what I mentioned month ago, wouldn't it be nice to export all those fancy gadgets to your PC?! like GPSmouse UVC and so on just by USBdevice handling?!
Oct 29 11:15:47 <alterego> Is it safe to create /home/user/.profile?
Oct 29 11:15:54 <chem|st> Coke: true
Oct 29 11:16:12 <alterego> I vaguely remember people complaing about infinite reboots when they messed with shell initialization ...
Oct 29 11:16:13 <mgedmin> alterego, I have a ~/.profile on my n900
Oct 29 11:16:35 <Coke> mgedmin: while it would be a fun experiment to use N900 as a webcam, a normal webcam costs about $40, so...
Oct 29 11:16:35 <chem|st> Coke: at least for most webcams I know, the one in my netbook is doing fine with v4l2 and/or uvc
Oct 29 11:16:50 <mgedmin> I was always afraid my nokia would start boot-looping if I screwed it up, so I never screwed it up
Oct 29 11:17:14 <alterego> mgedmin: cool, just want a few aliases :)
Oct 29 11:17:18 <Coke> chem|st: I get really bad results from apps using v4l2
Oct 29 11:17:36 <alterego> mgedmin: sure
Oct 29 11:17:38 <chem|st> alterego: me too
Oct 29 11:17:38 <Coke> chem|st: except mplayer and ffmpeg, they just rock the socks out of any device
Oct 29 11:18:24 <chem|st> Coke: my desktop crashes on v4l2plugins for firefox(iceweasel)
Oct 29 11:18:49 <Coke> chem|st: v4l2 needs to become v4l3. better hw support and less insane API
Oct 29 11:18:51 <chem|st> the netbook is just working (ootb)
Oct 29 11:19:16 <Venemo> I simply love the 32 GB space on the N900
Oct 29 11:19:19 <Coke> Yeah, I have a clevo stylenote and a logitech usb cam, both work nicely.
Oct 29 11:19:28 <Coke> Venemo: I have 32G ????
Oct 29 11:19:32 <Venemo> I no longer need to think about what music should I copy to it... I copy everything I like
Oct 29 11:19:41 <Venemo> Coke: I'm sorry?
Oct 29 11:19:56 <alterego> Venemo: got yours back now? :D
Oct 29 11:19:56 <chem|st> Coke: my logitech is the one not working since april
Oct 29 11:20:01 <Coke> Venemo: I recently upgraded my N900, it required me to uninstall loads of shit to get space for the 85M download.
Oct 29 11:20:06 <raster> aaaah good sammy
Oct 29 11:20:11 <Coke> Why the fuck would I uninstall anything with 32G?
Oct 29 11:20:15 <Coke> Grr.
Oct 29 11:20:16 <raster> opensourcing gpu drivers
Oct 29 11:20:18 <Venemo> Coke: the 32GB is not the rootfs. :)
Oct 29 11:20:25 <Coke> Venemo: no, but does it matter?
Oct 29 11:20:26 <Venemo> alterego: no, they couldn't fix it... so they replaced it
Oct 29 11:20:34 <mgedmin> alterego, http://pastie.org/1257705
Oct 29 11:20:39 <Coke> Venemo: I mean, they could have put the rootfs anywhere they want
Oct 29 11:20:53 <Venemo> Coke: yes, it does. the 32G is a build-in memory card
Oct 29 11:20:59 <Coke> I'd gladly give up 16G to get just 1G of more rootfs
Oct 29 11:21:01 <chem|st> Coke: in case of speed they cannot do
Oct 29 11:21:12 <Coke> Speed?
Oct 29 11:21:13 <Coke> What speed?
Oct 29 11:21:19 <chem|st> device
Oct 29 11:21:22 <Coke> It takes about 10 minutes to update the lists in the package manager.
Oct 29 11:21:27 <alterego> Venemo: even better ;)
Oct 29 11:21:44 <SpeedEvil> rootfs is a seperate 256M device
Oct 29 11:21:45 <chem|st> Coke: thats HAM if you apt-get update it takes a few seconds
Oct 29 11:21:56 <Coke> Obviously, the rootfs device is too small anyway.
Oct 29 11:22:10 <Venemo> alterego: yeah. this one seems a bit different though
Oct 29 11:22:11 <Coke> chem|st: noted. I've stopped using the app manager now
Oct 29 11:22:28 <Venemo> Coke: yeah, that's what optification is for
Oct 29 11:22:34 <Coke> 256M + 32G. What a waste. 32G of space I will NEVER use
Oct 29 11:22:37 <chem|st> Coke: to store there stuff yes, for a / file system no
Oct 29 11:22:54 <Coke> and 256M that will constantly be full
Oct 29 11:23:03 <alterego> mgedmin: that's pretty much exactly what I've done, though I've also added a . ~/aliasrc
Oct 29 11:23:12 <alterego> which has a load of aliases
Oct 29 11:23:32 <alterego> mostly ssh -t user@host screen -D -RR
Oct 29 11:23:39 <chem|st> var should be anywhere else
Oct 29 11:24:22 <Coke> have a nice weekend dudes and dudettes
Oct 29 11:25:20 <chem|st> alterego: -D -RR? -rd for servers for me...
Oct 29 11:26:04 <Venemo> alterego: next week I'll start looking through your stuff in depth
Oct 29 11:26:37 <Venemo> alterego: not in the weekend though, cause I'm going home to my family and I won't bring with me my computer
Oct 29 11:27:05 <Venemo> ~seen Khertan
Oct 29 11:27:12 <infobot> khertan <~Khertan@AAmiens-553-1-169-251.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16h 8m 19s ago, saying: 'someone have the right to admin maemo builder ? seems he didn't want to build my package :)'.
Oct 29 11:27:28 <alterego> Cool
Oct 29 11:28:07 <Venemo> alterego: do you remember the thingy that we figured out? the trick to open the main menu of the app in a Maemo app?
Oct 29 11:28:41 <alterego> Yes, it's in that code
Oct 29 11:29:22 <lcuk> andre__, re bug 11485 its possible he could have bad bookmarks, i don't experience this problem on my device can someone confirm if it happens on theirs?
Oct 29 11:29:23 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11485 favourites list scrolling jumps back to first entry
Oct 29 11:32:58 <chem|st> lcuk: uptime 20h and no jumpback, I will try again 2morrow
Oct 29 11:34:44 <Venemo> alterego: k :)
Oct 29 11:35:23 <alterego> Look at the Maemo5MenuButton code, it's basically a button to open the menu when in fullscreen.
Oct 29 11:35:35 <Venemo> alterego: okay
Oct 29 11:36:28 <lcuk> thanks chem|st - my feeling too, i wonder where the bookmarks are stored so he can test clearing them and seeing if it was some kind of bad one
Oct 29 11:39:24 <kthomas_vh> MohammadAG,  any chance you're still interested in the N810W?
Oct 29 11:40:05 <Venemo> MohammadAG: is the community SSU _S_SU now?
Oct 29 11:40:37 <MohammadAG> kthomas_vh, short on money, or actually, I need the money for something else
Oct 29 11:40:41 <MohammadAG> sorry :|
Oct 29 11:40:58 <MohammadAG> Venemo, yes, sort of, I still don't get why the terminal window isn't launched from postinst
Oct 29 11:40:59 <kthomas_vh> np,  I have to fly on Sunday and was looking to lower my weight :)
Oct 29 11:41:18 <MohammadAG> Venemo, other than that, yes, it is SSU and not on an external site
Oct 29 11:41:23 <Venemo> MohammadAG: ok, I'll try it now from PR 1.3
Oct 29 11:41:31 <MohammadAG> Venemo, see channel
Oct 29 11:41:38 <Venemo> MohammadAG: k
Oct 29 11:42:02 <kthomas_vh> otherwise, it is easy to sell in the US
Oct 29 11:42:54 <Kaadlajk> lcuk: i believe bookmarks are in /home/user/.mozilla/microb/places.sqlite
Oct 29 11:43:10 <lcuk> thanks Kaadlajk \o
Oct 29 11:46:12 <iksaif> PaulFertser: could you try "Zouba" it also uses libqtm-location ?
Oct 29 11:47:11 <PaulFertser> iksaif: hm possibly
Oct 29 11:47:31 <iksaif> and PaulFertser could check your gps settings ? (if netowrk localisation if enabled, and if gps is enabled)
Oct 29 11:47:38 <PaulFertser> iksaif: yes, yes, yes
Oct 29 11:51:41 <PaulFertser> iksaif: hm, zouba seems to start nicely every time (with sat receiver icon blinking etc)
Oct 29 11:52:15 <iksaif> but it was built against PR 1.2 .. so it doesn't necessary tell us something
Oct 29 11:54:39 <PaulFertser> iksaif: ldd output looks limilar
Oct 29 12:04:03 <PaulFertser> iksaif: sorry, no idea about the actual difference between the two apps...
Oct 29 12:07:31 <fcrochik> hi...can anybody help me with two questions on linux: can any think of a reason why "/opt/crochik/geeps > /home/user/MyDocs/geepslog.txt" would not work? the file is created but I still see the output on the screen :(
Oct 29 12:08:13 <achipa> fcrochik: stderr instead of sdout ?
Oct 29 12:08:35 <fcrochik> 2nd: is there a simple "script" I can run that will find a line "Backend=maemo5-crochik" and replace it with "Backend=maemo5" w/o messing with the other lines?
Oct 29 12:09:00 <fcrochik> achipa: should be stdout ( qDebug() << ...)
Oct 29 12:09:28 <PaulFertser> fcrochik: sed -i 's/^Backend=maemo5-crochik$/Backend=maemo5/' file-you-want-to-change
Oct 29 12:10:04 <fcrochik> PaulFertser: I will give a try....thanks!
Oct 29 12:12:43 <mgedmin> fcrochik, "The Qt implementation of these functions prints the text to the stderr output under Unix/X11 and Mac OS X."
Oct 29 12:12:47 <mgedmin> says http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/debug.html
Oct 29 12:12:55 <mgedmin> about qDebug()
Oct 29 12:13:22 <fcrochik> mgedmin: the funny thing is that it used to work... is it possible that has changed with qt4.7
Oct 29 12:13:33 <mgedmin> while qInstallMsgHandler says that the default handler "prints the message to the standard output under X11 "
Oct 29 12:13:40 <mgedmin> yay for self-contradictory documentation
Oct 29 12:13:42 * mgedmin hates Qt
Oct 29 12:14:09 <chem|st> has anyone managed to cast sound with pulse? (rtp-sink)
Oct 29 12:14:16 <fcrochik> mgedmin: oh...wait a minute... I think the application that used to work actually "install a handler" and this one doesn't
Oct 29 12:15:09 <fcrochik> mgedmin: so my question should be how do I redirect the stderr ? :)
Oct 29 12:15:16 <mgedmin> 2>file.txt
Oct 29 12:17:41 <fcrochik> mgedmin: great! works like a charm!
Oct 29 12:17:54 <ieatlint> you can also redirect stdout and stderr to the same file with: "./app > output.txt 2>&1" :P
Oct 29 12:17:56 <fcrochik> PaulFertser: thank you. It did the trick...
Oct 29 12:18:13 <PaulFertser> fcrochik: that's unix for you
Oct 29 12:19:22 <fcrochik> PaulFertser: great! I will add to the belt... sure it will be handy many times
Oct 29 12:21:35 <PaulFertser> fcrochik: "man sed" is even more useful
Oct 29 12:23:48 <ZogG> hey
Oct 29 12:24:07 <ruskie> omg... managed to save my install through meego
Oct 29 12:33:57 <crashanddie> "A private telecom firm took high speed Internet facilities to the top of the world on Thursday when it launched Nepal's first 3G services at the base camp of Mount Everest."
Oct 29 12:34:52 * crashanddie predicts future tweets: "LOL, Took this picture at top of Evrst with new White #iPhone 4"
Oct 29 12:35:55 <fcrochik> PaulFertser: not on the n900 :)
Oct 29 12:36:33 <PaulFertser> fcrochik: one of the first things i did is apt-got the manpages and the man toolset.
Oct 29 12:37:37 <mgedmin> so, anybody tried meego 1.1 on the n900 yet?
Oct 29 12:38:01 <phellarv> mgedmin: Yes
Oct 29 12:38:12 <mgedmin> is it fast?
Oct 29 12:38:23 <phellarv> mgedmin: HAHAHA - No.
Oct 29 12:38:27 <pigeon> anyone knows where i could download this package? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/libgles1-sgx-img/0.20091104.34+0m5/
Oct 29 12:38:51 <phellarv> mgedmin: Perhaps with a Class 12 MicroSD...
Oct 29 12:39:10 <Venemo> goodbye guys
Oct 29 12:39:15 <Scelt> phellarv and mgedmin: the first boot is slow
Oct 29 12:39:55 <phellarv> Scelt: Slow first boot is expected, but the UI and user experience feels sluggish.
Oct 29 12:40:23 <Scelt> a little but don't think it's about the sd speed
Oct 29 12:40:37 <phellarv> Scelt: You got a class 6 or better?
Oct 29 12:40:41 <Scelt> 6
Oct 29 12:41:00 <phellarv> Mmm - class 2 is slooooow.
Oct 29 12:41:11 <phryk> What is the grps/gsm device's name in /dev ?
Oct 29 12:46:18 <alterego> phryk: I don't think there is one
Oct 29 12:46:46 <alterego> maybe ttyGS?
Oct 29 12:47:47 <phryk> don't have ttyGS, just tty, tty0-63 and ttyS0-3
Oct 29 12:47:56 <flux> do I break my system if change user's shell to bash or zsh?
Oct 29 12:48:08 <phryk> nope i don't think so
Oct 29 12:48:21 <phryk> user:!:29999:29999::/home/user:/bin/bash
Oct 29 12:48:25 <phryk> from /etc/passwd
Oct 29 12:48:28 <phryk> still works for me
Oct 29 12:48:48 <flux> so now it's a matter of only compiling zsh for it, because it appears not to have it :) (unless bash suffices)
Oct 29 12:48:53 <flux> phryk, great, thanks!
Oct 29 12:48:56 <phryk> no problem
Oct 29 12:49:29 <flux> phryk, do you have package bash or bash3 installed?
Oct 29 12:49:30 <phryk> from what i have heard, zsh is pure bullshit, codewise
Oct 29 12:49:41 <flux> well, my miles-long initialization files are for zsh ;)
Oct 29 12:49:51 <flux> fortunately I haven't taken a look at its source
Oct 29 12:49:55 <phryk> bash3
Oct 29 12:50:02 <jacekowski> zsh is for sad people
Oct 29 12:50:14 <phryk> Mh
Oct 29 12:50:19 <jacekowski> i used to use it
Oct 29 12:50:25 <flux> zsh has for example approximate path completion, which I imagine could be nice on n900
Oct 29 12:50:40 <phryk> Why does the filemanager take the name set for the bluetooth as the name of the device, instead of the hostname?^^
Oct 29 12:51:10 <jacekowski> phryk: because hostname is always maemo
Oct 29 12:51:25 <phryk> jacekowski: nope?^^
Oct 29 12:51:41 <phryk> hostname for me was "Nokia-N900" or so, and I changed it…
Oct 29 12:54:21 <slonopotamus> ~pr1.3
Oct 29 12:54:22 <infobot> pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54
Oct 29 12:55:06 <mgedmin> zsh has a bunch of nifty stuff, and lacks a different bunch of nifty stuff that I'm used to, from bash
Oct 29 12:55:10 <mgedmin> zsh drives me mad
Oct 29 12:55:29 <MohammadAG> jacekowski, hostname is /etc/hostname
Oct 29 12:55:35 <MohammadAG> I have it changed
Oct 29 12:55:48 <pupnik> http://slack.net/~ant/info/rgb_clamped_sub.html  clamped 15-bit color subtraction
Oct 29 12:56:08 <flux> mgedmin, so, basically, zsh isn't bash..
Oct 29 12:57:00 <mgedmin> flux, more precisely, zsh is not a superset of bash
Oct 29 12:57:20 <mgedmin> I think zsh is a clone/fork/descendant of ksh
Oct 29 12:57:25 <flashn_> its more like the other way around
Oct 29 12:57:55 <mgedmin> heh
Oct 29 12:57:57 <flux> well, bash has been busy adding features as well. maybe it's been good for zsh to simply atleast exist
Oct 29 12:58:17 <flux> at the time when bash was at 2.0, zsh had all kinds of cool stuff
Oct 29 12:58:24 <mgedmin> zsh still has cool stuff
Oct 29 12:58:26 <flux> but I don't really know what bash nowadays has
Oct 29 12:58:52 <mgedmin> lots of different cool stuff
Oct 29 12:58:53 <mgedmin> ;)
Oct 29 12:58:59 <mgedmin> maybe less cool than zsh
Oct 29 12:59:30 <flux> well, it's not cool if it's in bash. you know, it's the defacto 'vanilla' shell of linux distributions ;-)
Oct 29 13:00:08 <mgedmin> some things (like putting the name of the running command in xterm title) are _painful_ to do in bash
Oct 29 13:00:19 <mgedmin> bash-completion eats 600ms on startup
Oct 29 13:00:32 <mgedmin> then again I just measured that zsh also eats 600ms on startup for something
Oct 29 13:03:02 <MohammadAG> lol bshno_highlight
Oct 29 13:04:36 <pupnik> we found a great pixel-shader algo.  who can get it running on n900?
Oct 29 13:04:43 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM3WWurYmLw
Oct 29 13:04:49 <pupnik> (sgx)
Oct 29 13:15:37 <pupnik> aha!  clamping integers without conditionals http://bob.allegronetwork.com/prog/tricks.html#clamp
Oct 29 13:17:26 <rmrfchik> mobilehotspot want kernel-power. is it safe for PR1.3?
Oct 29 13:27:21 <jacekowski> phryk: yeah, but you are not a "normal" user
Oct 29 13:27:36 <jacekowski> phryk: you can change it, but name that can be changed from gui is only bluetooth name
Oct 29 13:27:51 <phryk> Ah okay
Oct 29 13:28:05 <phryk> are there… "normal" maemo users?^^
Oct 29 13:31:03 <crashanddie> anyone fancy a "Ironette", female iron man costume for halloween?
Oct 29 13:31:04 <crashanddie> http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/69913.jpg?zm=1200,1200,1,0,0
Oct 29 13:31:38 <crashanddie> or a bumblebee transformers chick costume? http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/69902.jpg?zm=1200,1200,1,0,0
Oct 29 13:33:57 <stef_204> hi guys, quick question re. email client in maemo 5 20.2010.36-2 on N900.  The default email client always downloads the full body of email AND any attachments
Oct 29 13:34:24 <stef_204> which is a drag on people that have a plan based on data quantity per month
Oct 29 13:35:24 <stef_204> anyone knows if 1) can change any settings to make it only download header until email is requested/selected? OR 2) another email client that could be used which wold not have this behavior?
Oct 29 13:35:45 <stef_204> I tried using "Claws" but still too much in early development and not working well
Oct 29 13:35:53 <stef_204> I am talking about IMAP btw
Oct 29 13:37:32 <phryk> If you are not gui-dependant, you could setup an account with mutt on your machine home and just ssh in there
Oct 29 13:37:53 <phryk> But curses usability is… limited with the little keyboard
Oct 29 13:38:50 <mgedmin> so it's good that most mutt commands are alphabet-based
Oct 29 13:38:53 <mgedmin> j/k etc.
Oct 29 13:39:07 <mgedmin> <enter> being <esc>OM in osso-xterm mucks things up a bit
Oct 29 13:39:18 <mgedmin> ctrl-j is not a snice
Oct 29 13:40:22 <psYchotic> good day everyone
Oct 29 13:40:43 <stef_204> phryk: too complex for me, i'd have to ssh in there all the time, the home machine not always on, etc.
Oct 29 13:41:08 <psYchotic> I have a question: is there any reason why I don't get a message telling me I can update to PR1.3?
Oct 29 13:41:37 <psYchotic> I've checked for updates for the past couple of days, but I don't get PR1.3
Oct 29 13:42:15 <phryk> stef_204: nothing else coming to my mind, sory
Oct 29 13:42:52 <stef_204> phryk: fine--there's got to ba a solution--hopefully not hacking in source code of default email client
Oct 29 13:45:12 <mgedmin> psYchotic, firmware updates to some locales (especially UK) have been delayed
Oct 29 13:45:39 <psYchotic> mgedmin: aha, perhaps that's why
Oct 29 13:45:51 <psYchotic> any reason why it would be delayed for some locales?
Oct 29 13:46:13 <mgedmin> nokian's haven't built/debugged them yet, would be my guess
Oct 29 13:46:31 <mgedmin> eek, what's that apo'strophe doing there in my 'sentence?
Oct 29 13:46:36 <psYchotic> right'
Oct 29 13:47:18 <psYchotic> it's kinda weird though, what kind of differences are there really between US and UK locales?
Oct 29 13:47:28 <psYchotic> I'm not even sure what locale my N900's setup for
Oct 29 13:49:01 <ebzzry> ruskie: Are you there?
Oct 29 14:19:19 <Jef91> Anyone here use dropn900 (for dropbox)?
Oct 29 14:19:28 <Jef91> I installed it yesterday and it refuses to load for me
Oct 29 14:19:40 <Jef91> It starts to load when I press the icon and then it just crashes out
Oct 29 14:19:58 <MohammadAG51> run it from terminal
Oct 29 14:22:44 <Myrtti> that is always a good start if it's available
Oct 29 14:26:10 <Jef91> what is the command mohammadAG51?
Oct 29 14:26:17 <Jef91> I went to do that but "dropn900" is not a command :-/
Oct 29 14:26:44 <MohammadAG51> idk, don't have it, it's probably in /opt/drop something
Oct 29 14:26:47 <MohammadAG51> use tab
Oct 29 14:30:27 <Jef91> wonderful just a general seg fault when I run it :-/
Oct 29 14:30:32 <Jef91> odds are pr1.3 broke it
Oct 29 14:31:24 <Jef91> drat! it was terribly useful too :-/
Oct 29 14:35:18 <alecjw> hi, how can i make my media player update my library? at the moment, its only registering my MP3 files
Oct 29 14:40:07 <DocScrutinizer> hahaha, I *love* Adobe. Reliably gives my my monthly WTF: http://www.adobe.com/support/security/advisories/apsa10-05.html
Oct 29 14:40:19 <Venemo_N900> hi
Oct 29 14:43:20 <MohammadAG51> hey
Oct 29 14:43:51 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: nice!
Oct 29 14:45:13 <Venemo_N900> ~botsnack
Oct 29 14:45:14 <infobot> Venemo_N900: aw, gee
Oct 29 14:45:18 <DocScrutinizer> alecjw: please elaborate
Oct 29 14:46:21 <alecjw> DocScrutinizer, only my mp3 audio files show up in the media player. the vorbis files dont. i have vorbis extentions installed and i can play them if i search for them via the file browser
Oct 29 14:46:22 <DocScrutinizer> alecjw: "update" is done by tracker-daemon, not by mediaplayer.
Oct 29 14:46:41 <alecjw> it worked perfectly until last night, when i upgraded the maemo OS
Oct 29 14:47:13 <alecjw> sudo /etc/init.d/tracker-daemon restart or something then?
Oct 29 14:47:24 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, delete or copy or rename one single file there, it should trigger trackerd to recreate index
Oct 29 14:48:00 <MohammadAG51> reinstall decoders-support
Oct 29 14:48:14 <MohammadAG51> or rerun the postinst
Oct 29 14:48:42 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Oct 29 14:49:10 <DocScrutinizer> I hate trackerd! DIE! crap, BURN IN HELL!
Oct 29 14:49:40 <MohammadAG51> alecjw, /var/lib/dpkg/info/decoders-support.postinst
Oct 29 14:49:43 <MohammadAG51> as root
Oct 29 14:50:08 <Venemo_N900> ~burn trackerd, because DocScrutinizer hates you!
Oct 29 14:50:09 * infobot pours gasoline all over trackerd, because DocScrutinizer hates you!, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Oct 29 14:51:06 <Venemo_N900> heh
Oct 29 14:51:27 <kerio> ~nuke trackerd
Oct 29 14:51:28 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at trackerd ... B☢☢M!
Oct 29 14:51:34 <kerio> ~nuke pulseaudio
Oct 29 14:51:34 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at pulseaudio ... B☢☢M!
Oct 29 14:51:41 <kerio> OH SHIT I CAN'T HEAR ANYTHING
Oct 29 14:52:18 <Venemo_N900> kerio: on my device, nothing's wrong with PA
Oct 29 14:53:41 <Venemo_N900> kerio: I dunno what you have against it
Oct 29 14:53:57 <kerio> takes more cpu than the decoding of the mp3
Oct 29 14:54:22 <Venemo_N900> how can you tell that?
Oct 29 14:54:27 <kerio> huh... top
Oct 29 14:55:04 <Venemo_N900> on my device, cpu usage is on the min when playing mp3s
Oct 29 14:55:20 <kerio> meh, it could be because i'm using a2dp
Oct 29 14:55:52 <alecjw> DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG, still nothing. but i have to go now. thanks for your help, ill try again later
Oct 29 14:56:20 <Venemo_N900> also, the cpu is not supposed to decode 'em, there's a dsp for that
Oct 29 14:56:40 <crashanddie> Venemo_N900, only if it makes sense
Oct 29 14:56:56 <Venemo_N900> maybe a2dp is what takes your cpu, kerio
Oct 29 14:57:09 <Venemo_N900> crashanddie: what do you mean makes sense?
Oct 29 14:57:40 <kerio> 1/0 never makes sense
Oct 29 14:57:55 <kerio> sqrt(-1) makes sense, some times
Oct 29 14:58:14 <Venemo_N900> kerio: sqrt(-1) = i
Oct 29 14:58:26 <kerio> Venemo_N900: which doesn't exist on the real axis
Oct 29 14:58:32 <kerio> that's why i said "some times"
Oct 29 14:58:40 <Venemo_N900> kerio: yeah :)
Oct 29 14:58:53 <_trine> I just tried the Nokia BH-905 Stereo Bluetooth Headphones
Oct 29 14:58:58 <_trine> they are very good
Oct 29 14:59:41 <kerio> i'm using a pair of sony bt headphones
Oct 29 14:59:48 <kerio> good battery life, good sound
Oct 29 15:00:32 <_trine> the Nokia BH-905 with noise cancelling is fantastic
Oct 29 15:01:34 <_trine> even with no music if I switch on noise cancelling the computer fan noise from my computer completely disappears
Oct 29 15:01:55 <_trine> and silence reigns
Oct 29 15:02:02 <Venemo_N900> _trine: sounds nice
Oct 29 15:02:40 <_trine> and the range of the BT is impressive
Oct 29 15:03:34 <_trine> before I tried them I was worried the sound over BT would be crap,,, I was wrong
Oct 29 15:06:07 <GNU\caustic> hi! i'm trying to update by running apt-get upgrade, but it spits out a list of >1000 packages which are held back. i cannot figure out why they are held back though.
Oct 29 15:06:20 * DocScrutinizer glares at http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/features.html... *BURP*
Oct 29 15:07:00 <hrw> Venemo_N900: I prefer sqrt(-1) to be 'j' then 'i'
Oct 29 15:07:06 <andre__> don't use apt-get upgrade...
Oct 29 15:07:15 <Venemo_N900> hrw: why?
Oct 29 15:07:26 <Venemo_N900> andre__: why not?
Oct 29 15:07:49 <GNU\caustic> how should i update then without reflashing or using the nokia suite?
Oct 29 15:08:12 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: over the air
Oct 29 15:08:25 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: what's the problem with reflashin?
Oct 29 15:09:05 <andre__> Venemo_N900: it's not supported, it's not tested, it circumvents h-a-m checks, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6014#c5
Oct 29 15:09:06 <povbot> Bug 6014: apt-get upgrade can result in non-bootable device
Oct 29 15:09:06 <GNU\caustic> i don't have a bigger interest in reconfiguring and reinstalling stuff
Oct 29 15:09:15 <hrw|uds> Venemo_N900: "i" is used my mathematics. 'j' is used by electrotechnics because for us 'i' is other thing already
Oct 29 15:09:37 <DocScrutinizer> isn't it strange how it turns out tracker starts with a g*? I should have known, by the hate I feel for trackerd, it can not be anything else than g*
Oct 29 15:09:42 <Venemo_N900> andre__: well it has always worked for me
Oct 29 15:09:49 * hrw|uds upgraded to pr1.3 with apt-get but I would not say that it was easy ;D
Oct 29 15:09:58 <Venemo_N900> hrw|uds: yeah, I heard about that
Oct 29 15:10:23 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: does SSU work for you?
Oct 29 15:10:26 <hrw|uds> Venemo_N900: so "2+i3" is "w+3j"
Oct 29 15:10:29 <hrw|uds> Venemo_N900: so "2+i3" is "2+3j"
Oct 29 15:10:32 <GNU\caustic> why can't stupid apt-get tell why it holds back packages?
Oct 29 15:10:48 <DocScrutinizer> is there any locale on this earth where g=w ?
Oct 29 15:11:17 <DocScrutinizer> as it seams gnome shit always been the poor clone of windows philosophy
Oct 29 15:11:28 <Venemo_N900> hrw|uds: as I'm gonna be an electronic engineer myself, could you tell me what you use i for?
Oct 29 15:11:55 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: why? kde isn't?
Oct 29 15:12:03 <hrw|uds> Venemo_N900: I do not remember now after all those years. temporary amperage?
Oct 29 15:12:20 <mgedmin> DocScrutinizer: you're absolutely right, except it's KDE that clones Windows; GNOME tends to clone Mac OS X
Oct 29 15:12:29 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: has KDE an abomination like gconf?
Oct 29 15:12:36 <Venemo_N900> hrw|uds: I dunno, this is my first year in uni
Oct 29 15:12:57 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: I dunno of its inner workings
Oct 29 15:12:57 <DocScrutinizer> where gconf is an exact copy of registry
Oct 29 15:13:25 * mgedmin ♥ gconf
Oct 29 15:13:32 <mgedmin> what's the icon for hate?
Oct 29 15:13:34 <hrw|uds> DocScrutinizer: KDE uses .ini style files
Oct 29 15:13:38 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: but at least, when I tried both, I liked gnome's ux more
Oct 29 15:13:54 <DocScrutinizer> lately somebody started wining as he couldn't make gnome edit .desktop files X-P
Oct 29 15:14:09 <DocScrutinizer> hrw|uds: I know
Oct 29 15:14:28 <Venemo_N900> x-p=?
Oct 29 15:16:01 <GNU\caustic> Venemo_N900: whats SSU? :)
Oct 29 15:16:15 <hrw|uds> ~ssu
Oct 29 15:16:16 <infobot> rumour has it, ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU
Oct 29 15:16:42 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: seamless software update
Oct 29 15:16:59 <GNU\caustic> yeah, that one doesn't work
Oct 29 15:17:05 <GNU\caustic> it wants to be connected to the nokia suite
Oct 29 15:17:10 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: why not?
Oct 29 15:17:20 <GNU\caustic> don't have a nokia suite
Oct 29 15:17:54 <mgedmin> GNU\caustic, there's a library, something opengl-related, that prevents SSU upgrades
Oct 29 15:18:06 <mgedmin> if you remove apps that depend on that library (e.g. CloudGPS), you can then upgrade
Oct 29 15:18:23 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: you misunderstand
Oct 29 15:18:37 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: ask maemo conversations, maybe it gives you an emoticon for XP next to the one for :-P
Oct 29 15:18:41 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: it is done by the N900's os automatically
Oct 29 15:18:54 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: aaaah...
Oct 29 15:19:10 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: :)
Oct 29 15:20:00 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: ssu is ssu because it doesn't need an external software or computer for it
Oct 29 15:20:27 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: you must have enough space on the rootfs and you must not have package conflicts though
Oct 29 15:20:51 <GNU\caustic> the update thing pops up a dialog telling that it wants to be connected to the nokia suite
Oct 29 15:21:16 <johnsq> Hi
Oct 29 15:21:25 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: it tells you that because you have either package conflicts or not enough space on rootfs
Oct 29 15:21:46 <GNU\caustic> a brilliant error message
Oct 29 15:22:18 <Venemo_N900> well it is intended for users who don't know what these things mean
Oct 29 15:22:30 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: bring up a root terminal and type 'df -h', then please tell us how much space you got on your rootsf
Oct 29 15:22:36 <Venemo_N900> rootfs*
Oct 29 15:22:50 <mgedmin> when I didn't have enough free space, the app manager told me so
Oct 29 15:23:02 <mgedmin> so "you must use pc suite" must mean you've got packaging conflicts
Oct 29 15:23:17 <Venemo_N900> 'df -h | grep rootfs'
Oct 29 15:23:18 <mgedmin> am I wrong? have things changed in later versions?
Oct 29 15:23:19 <GNU\caustic> i uninstalled the gles thing and trying again
Oct 29 15:23:45 <Venemo_N900> mgedmin: well I dunno, maybe you're right
Oct 29 15:23:48 <GNU\caustic> i guess it works, its starting to download now
Oct 29 15:24:00 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: hooray :)
Oct 29 15:24:02 <SpeedEvil> Anyone in the UK with n900 and t-mo? Specifically if you've opted into orange network - do you get it appearing as 'orange' ?
Oct 29 15:26:59 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ?
Oct 29 15:27:25 <DocScrutinizer> how can you opt in to orange?
Oct 29 15:27:28 <SpeedEvil> t-mo/orange merger in the UK
Oct 29 15:27:35 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Oct 29 15:27:47 <SpeedEvil> you can opt in on a per phone basis by texting
Oct 29 15:29:17 <DocScrutinizer> there are (at least) 3 sources for network name: a table with netcode->name tupels in OS/cellmo, an name written to SIM config, and a short and long name coming OTA
Oct 29 15:32:03 <DocScrutinizer> sometimes, on some phones during sign-in, you see all three popping up in sequence
Oct 29 15:32:41 <DocScrutinizer> like "Vodafone"->"O2"->"Loop"
Oct 29 15:32:44 <SpeedEvil> I suppose I should check syslog
Oct 29 15:33:35 <DocScrutinizer> for what?
Oct 29 15:33:57 <DocScrutinizer> to check if you roamed to another network? use netmon
Oct 29 15:34:35 <DocScrutinizer> to find out about your accounting details? ask interwebs
Oct 29 15:38:25 <MohammadAG51> DocScrutinizer, how do i find powerhogs, as you call them
Oct 29 15:38:34 <MohammadAG51> my battery's getting raped
Oct 29 15:38:37 <MohammadAG51> powertop?
Oct 29 15:38:42 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Oct 29 15:39:01 <DocScrutinizer> plus SpeedEvil incredible invaluable wiki pages on the topic
Oct 29 15:39:43 <pupnik> o2 seems to work ok for me in .de
Oct 29 15:40:11 <DocScrutinizer> err, yes. Why shouldn't it?
Oct 29 15:40:13 <iksaif> PaulFertser: I think I found the bug :)
Oct 29 15:40:23 <PaulFertser> iksaif: really?
Oct 29 15:40:24 <PaulFertser> ;)
Oct 29 15:40:27 <iksaif> in QtLocation liblocationwrapper.cpp
Oct 29 15:40:31 <iksaif> they use a flag
Oct 29 15:40:37 <iksaif> locationState
Oct 29 15:40:41 <PaulFertser> Yes, seen that
Oct 29 15:40:43 <iksaif> to see if the service is started
Oct 29 15:40:46 <Venemo_N900> iksaif: what bug?
Oct 29 15:40:49 <iksaif> but .. the flag is not set to 0
Oct 29 15:40:55 <iksaif> when the class is constructed
Oct 29 15:40:58 <DocScrutinizer> hahahahaHAHA
Oct 29 15:41:08 <iksaif> so .. sometime the var is 0, sometime it's just some random crap
Oct 29 15:41:12 <PaulFertser> iksaif: lol, i assumed it's some static variable.
Oct 29 15:41:33 <iksaif> it's a member of LiblocationWrapper
Oct 29 15:41:38 <DocScrutinizer> noob oops
Oct 29 15:41:58 <iksaif> so it may works with some apps because they have some memory pattern that make this flag be 0 on load
Oct 29 15:41:59 <PaulFertser> iksaif: if you have that "scratchbox" shit handy, feel free to ask me to test your recompiled package for that.
Oct 29 15:43:04 * DocScrutinizer still wonders why there isn't a SPANK function in gcc for fools using vars right side before left side
Oct 29 15:43:05 <iksaif> I think I'll fill a bug repport first
Oct 29 15:43:12 <iksaif> I hop this will be fixed soon :/
Oct 29 15:44:16 <PaulFertser> iksaif: well, for the testing purposes it might worth to build a custom package. Also probably that bugreport will be there waiting for the devs for months, but you'd be able to provide a fixed version in extras-devel already.
Oct 29 15:45:06 <GNU\caustic> "operating system successfully updated" \o/
Oct 29 15:45:19 <Venemo_N900> GNU\caustic: hooray! :)
Oct 29 15:45:20 <iksaif> PaulFertser: the fix has to be made in QtMobility anyway, I can't fix it in my app right ?
Oct 29 15:45:44 <iksaif> you mean, a custom qtm-location package ?
Oct 29 15:45:45 <PaulFertser> iksaif: sure you can't that's what i'm talking about.
Oct 29 15:45:53 <Venemo_N900> iksaif: even if they fix it tomorrow, the fix will only be in the next fw upgrade... :(
Oct 29 15:48:02 <iksaif> PaulFertser: so what should I do ? provide a custom qtm-location package ?
Oct 29 15:48:16 <iksaif> how to make such a package available in extra-devel/extra-testing ?
Oct 29 15:48:24 <PaulFertser> iksaif: yes, to me for testing first :)
Oct 29 15:48:49 <iksaif> (and could anyone confirm my guess before I fill a bug report ? see http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/src/location/liblocationwrapper_p.h / http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/master/src/location/liblocationwrapper.cpp and locationState variable)
Oct 29 15:48:50 <PaulFertser> iksaif: i'm sure the folks here know the answer, i'm totally clueless about all this maemo distro business.
Oct 29 15:48:58 <iksaif> ok, I'll do that
Oct 29 15:49:11 <iksaif> are you always on the chan ?
Oct 29 15:49:12 <PaulFertser> iksaif: (ah, so it's even in the master 1.2 branch, heh)
Oct 29 15:50:16 <PaulFertser> iksaif: I might quit any second as i'm not comfortable being here, but i'm almost always on freenode, so just ``/query PaulFertser'' whenever you feel like.
Oct 29 15:50:36 <iksaif> ok, great
Oct 29 15:50:55 <iksaif> thanks for your help btw,
Oct 29 15:51:32 <rblank> Hello everyone. I see a system update is available on my N900. Any issues I need to be careful with? My device hasn't been "heavily" hacked.
Oct 29 15:52:09 <PaulFertser> iksaif: lol, even basic gdb knowledge seems to be somewhat the majority of this > 500 members lack, i'm glad i was of help.
Oct 29 15:52:25 <mgedmin> rblank, no, no issues; creating a backup is recommended on general principles
Oct 29 15:53:36 <ruskie> PaulFertser, why aren't you comfortable around here?
Oct 29 15:54:16 <Venemo_N900> nah guys, goodbye now :)
Oct 29 15:54:22 <iksaif> PaulFertser: do you confirm that the bug is related to the flag not being set ?
Oct 29 15:54:31 <rblank> mgedmin: Thanks.
Oct 29 15:54:39 <PaulFertser> ruskie: if this is not another attempt to drag me into argument for some folk's lulz, please query in private, i'll explain.
Oct 29 15:55:15 <PaulFertser> iksaif: it looks very much like that, this flag is something i've thought about myself but somehow i decided its getting cleared somewhere.
Oct 29 15:55:58 <iksaif> PaulFertser: instead of doing a new build, maybe you could set the flag to zero by hand using gdb
Oct 29 15:56:09 <iksaif> adding a breakpoint in LibLocationWrapper::inited()
Oct 29 15:56:28 <PaulFertser> iksaif: i'll try in few minutes.
Oct 29 15:56:33 <iksaif> if you have the time to do so of course
Oct 29 15:58:40 <rblank> How can I convince my N900 to do the system update *without* the "Nokia PC Suite"?
Oct 29 15:59:24 <Venemo_N900> rblank: get rid of the dependency problems, make enough room on rootfs
Oct 29 15:59:57 <madduck> ~pr1.3
Oct 29 15:59:58 <infobot> from memory, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54
Oct 29 16:00:02 <mgedmin> rblank, make sure you've enough free disk space in your rootfs, and remove any conflicting packages
Oct 29 16:00:33 <mgedmin> e.g. try apt-get remove libgles1-sgx-img
Oct 29 16:00:51 <rblank> Rootfs has 69M room. I assume that's not enough?
Oct 29 16:01:06 <rblank> How do you find conflicting packages?
Oct 29 16:01:13 <MohammadAG51> it is i think
Oct 29 16:01:25 <MohammadAG51> apt-get --dist-upgrade
Oct 29 16:01:32 <MohammadAG51> see what it says, then ctrl+c
Oct 29 16:01:37 <rblank> The size of the update was given as 83M
Oct 29 16:01:56 <mgedmin> 69M is plenty of space
Oct 29 16:02:05 <rblank> # apt-get --dist-upgrade
Oct 29 16:02:06 <rblank> E: Sense dist is not understood, try true or false.
Oct 29 16:02:11 <GNUtoo|laptop> hi, in supertux for maemo there is that in the changelog:
Oct 29 16:02:14 <mgedmin> apt-get dist-upgrade failed to give me any useful information
Oct 29 16:02:26 <mgedmin> people on this channel suggested apt-get remove libgles1-sgx-img, which helped
Oct 29 16:02:31 <GNUtoo|laptop> supertux-stable (0.1.3-1.1maemo6) stable; urgency=low  * Enable access to the pause menu using SDLK_BACKSPACE and touching the screen
Oct 29 16:02:38 <GNUtoo|laptop> how do I extract a patch of that
Oct 29 16:04:13 <rblank> apt-get dist-upgrade gives me lists of packages that will be removed, installed, and upgraded.
Oct 29 16:04:19 <PaulFertser> iksaif: btw, i do not exactly like /opt/lugdugov/bin/ for the binary, that seems inconsistent and violating usual pathname policies.
Oct 29 16:04:39 <rblank> 45MB of additional space will be used. That seems ok. Nothing about dependencies, though.
Oct 29 16:04:51 <mgedmin> PaulFertser, have you read the FHS?
Oct 29 16:05:21 <mgedmin> "Programs to be invoked by users must be located in the directory /opt/<package>/bin"
Oct 29 16:05:22 <PaulFertser> mgedmin: yes.
Oct 29 16:05:43 <PaulFertser> mgedmin: ah, ok, let it be so. I'm not sure how i'm supposed to add all those to PATH tough.
Oct 29 16:06:01 <mgedmin> good question
Oct 29 16:06:51 <rblank> "apt-get check" says that everything is ok.
Oct 29 16:07:17 <mgedmin> symlinks like /usr/bin/progname -> /opt/package/bin/progname ?
Oct 29 16:07:30 <iksaif> mgedmin: the program is launched using the application/<package>.desktop which specify the absolute binary path
Oct 29 16:07:40 <iksaif> but it's not really clean ..
Oct 29 16:07:45 <mgedmin> why do you say so?
Oct 29 16:07:56 <iksaif> oups PaulFertser not mgedmin
Oct 29 16:07:57 <iksaif> sorry
Oct 29 16:08:14 <PaulFertser> iksaif: i prefer when i can start programs easily from my shell prompt.
Oct 29 16:08:22 <mgedmin> so do I
Oct 29 16:08:27 <mgedmin> but maemo doesn't make that easy
Oct 29 16:08:30 <iksaif> me too, I should add a symlink maybe
Oct 29 16:08:37 <iksaif> but it's maemo rules :p
Oct 29 16:08:44 <mgedmin> all those dbus-jumping hoops to make startup faster/etc.
Oct 29 16:08:57 <iksaif> you can install lugdulov on your std linux box if you want, it will be in /usr/bin :)
Oct 29 16:09:58 <wazd> Heya all
Oct 29 16:10:16 <PaulFertser> iksaif: mgedmin read http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html and it's written "Packages may provide "front-end" files intended to be placed in [/opt/bin]"
Oct 29 16:14:27 <iksaif> hum PaulFertser I think they tought the flag would be zeroed because the instance is allocated using Q_GLOBAL_STATIC
Oct 29 16:14:32 <iksaif> but when threads are enabled
Oct 29 16:14:36 <Chani> anyone remember what the problem was with getting a data plan for an n900?
Oct 29 16:14:37 <iksaif> Q_GLOBAL_STATIC call new
Oct 29 16:14:44 <iksaif> and doesn't use a real static var
Oct 29 16:14:50 <iksaif> (which would be zeroed)
Oct 29 16:16:00 * Chani remembers there being some sort of problem in canada, and is hoping it doesn't apply to european networks
Oct 29 16:17:14 <PaulFertser> iksaif: btw, zeroing it in debugger is not exactly easy, i've no debug packages for it installed.
Oct 29 16:17:39 <iksaif>  ah
Oct 29 16:17:41 <iksaif> hum right
Oct 29 16:17:41 <Jucato> Chani: dare I repeat dfaure's reply in here :)
Oct 29 16:17:49 <Jucato> oh wait, wrong channel lol
Oct 29 16:18:00 <PaulFertser> iksaif: i'll try in assembyl though, doesn't seem too hard.
Oct 29 16:18:02 <iksaif> the var should be on the stack .. somewhere :p
Oct 29 16:18:11 <iksaif> hum
Oct 29 16:18:12 <iksaif> on the heap
Oct 29 16:18:23 <iksaif> if it was on the stack, it would be zeroed
Oct 29 16:18:51 <iksaif> (static storage is on the stack right ?)
Oct 29 16:19:52 <TiagoTiago> hi
Oct 29 16:20:28 <mgedmin> afair static storage is in the bss section (neither stack nor heap), and is zeroed on startup
Oct 29 16:20:34 <TiagoTiago> I forgot, where do i find the setting for which connections can be connected automaticly?
Oct 29 16:22:10 <PaulFertser> iksaif: yes, helps here. Need gdb log?
Oct 29 16:22:36 <TiagoTiago_> oops
Oct 29 16:23:00 <iksaif> PaulFertser: yep please
Oct 29 16:23:31 <iksaif> need to go, but I'll get the log later in my irc logs
Oct 29 16:23:35 <iksaif> thanks for your help
Oct 29 16:23:45 <iksaif> See http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-646 for the reported issue
Oct 29 16:26:09 <PaulFertser> iksaif: http://paste.debian.net/98658/
Oct 29 16:36:20 <MohammadAG51> Sigh, so many Internal errors
Oct 29 16:36:27 <MohammadAG51> on 1.3
Oct 29 16:45:54 <TiagoTiago> I forgot, where do i find the setting for which connections can be connected automaticly?
Oct 29 16:46:19 <chem|st> TiagoTiago: GUI or shell?
Oct 29 16:47:12 <chem|st> and are you looking for the general setting autoconnection?
Oct 29 16:47:23 <TiagoTiago> on the N900
Oct 29 16:47:36 <TiagoTiago> it was a file somewhere i think
Oct 29 16:47:48 <chem|st> what a surprise in #maemo
Oct 29 16:47:55 <chem|st> gconf
Oct 29 16:48:33 <ShadowJK> settings - internet?
Oct 29 16:48:45 <chem|st> for GUI ^^
Oct 29 16:49:04 <TiagoTiago> I'm looking for this list that had the connections that shhould be connected when avaiable (or perhaps it was the opposite, the connecttions that shouldn't be connected automaticly)
Oct 29 16:49:16 <chem|st> TiagoTiago: I honestly don"t know which of all the connection settings you are looking for
Oct 29 16:50:11 <TiagoTiago> i remember learning about it when i was reading somthing about creating "dummy" connections
Oct 29 16:50:24 <DocScrutinizer> TiagoTiago: there's a "autoconnect to WLAN if available"
Oct 29 16:51:04 <ShadowJK> that's switch to wlan
Oct 29 16:51:12 <DocScrutinizer> and AIUI it will use all the WLANs you previously used and thus configured
Oct 29 16:51:12 <TiagoTiago> i'm looking for the setting for individual connections
Oct 29 16:51:39 <DocScrutinizer> I'm in doubt there's such a setting
Oct 29 16:52:13 <MohammadAG51> hmm
Oct 29 16:52:26 <MohammadAG51> i get a weird vibration when i click the calendar widget
Oct 29 16:52:32 <TiagoTiago> you can use that setting to prevent dummy connections and adhoc from autoconnecting
Oct 29 16:53:15 <TiagoTiago> it's cursed
Oct 29 16:55:02 * MohammadAG51 ponders if the community SSU should hold latest stock or latest stock + matan patches
Oct 29 16:55:56 <TiagoTiago> whats the point in having a comunity SSU if its just the same as the manufacturer's ?
Oct 29 16:56:19 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: if not both then matan
Oct 29 16:56:38 <rblank> Ooh, the "Updating" tab of the "Application details" for the update actually tells which package conflicts. Here it was "libqt4-test", installed by PyQt4. Uninstalling the latter allows the upgrade to proceed.
Oct 29 16:56:46 <TiagoTiago> btw, what about the improvements avaiable n the power kernel?
Oct 29 16:56:55 <MohammadAG51> TiagoTiago, PR1.3 has old packages
Oct 29 16:57:24 <MohammadAG51> i won't try to add kernel-power, it change too many things from stock
Oct 29 16:57:45 <MohammadAG51> while mhd is pretty much the same if not configured
Oct 29 16:57:51 <chem|st> TiagoTiago: gconftool-2 -a /system/osso/connectivity/network_type
Oct 29 16:58:32 <MohammadAG51> X-Fade, does the SSU allow community patches like Matan's?
Oct 29 16:58:37 <MohammadAG51> they're very stable
Oct 29 16:58:39 <DocScrutinizer> all the power to mhd until it actually ats up and breaks anything
Oct 29 16:58:49 <DocScrutinizer> acts*
Oct 29 16:58:57 <MohammadAG51> it's
Oct 29 16:59:03 <TiagoTiago> how do i use that to define which connections can and can't autoconnect?
Oct 29 17:00:10 <DocScrutinizer> gconftool c'mon it's self explaining XP
Oct 29 17:00:23 <TiagoTiago> :(
Oct 29 17:00:28 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke g*
Oct 29 17:00:29 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at g* ... B☢☢M!
Oct 29 17:00:52 <MohammadAG51> gnome ftw
Oct 29 17:00:55 <chem|st> TiagoTiago: you set it vie settings->internet connections->connect automatically
Oct 29 17:00:56 <DocScrutinizer> #DEFINE tracker gtracker
Oct 29 17:01:05 <DocScrutinizer> ~nuke g*
Oct 29 17:01:06 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at g* ... B☢☢M!
Oct 29 17:02:22 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer do you want it to come?
Oct 29 17:02:25 <chem|st> values are empty for no auto, WLAN_INFRA for wifi, * for any and GPRS for mobile inet
Oct 29 17:02:34 <ZogG> that you point all your missles to G dot =)
Oct 29 17:03:04 * DocScrutinizer gets nostalgic about the times where real hackers and not gnomes coded real unix tools
Oct 29 17:03:12 <TiagoTiago> that setting doesn't deal with individual connections
Oct 29 17:04:27 <DocScrutinizer> not to say KDE4 is *any* better
Oct 29 17:05:30 * MohammadAG tries unity
Oct 29 17:05:31 <MohammadAG> brb
Oct 29 17:07:21 <DocScrutinizer> MUHAHA >> --break-key              Torture-test  an  application by setting and unsetting a bunch of values of different types for keys on the              command line.
Oct 29 17:07:35 <DocScrutinizer> from man gconftool-2 XP
Oct 29 17:07:57 <ZogG> gnome sucks as kde
Oct 29 17:08:10 <RST38h> kde sucks as gnome too, no doubt
Oct 29 17:08:13 <DocScrutinizer> noooo, it is master of sucking
Oct 29 17:08:42 <MohammadAG> unity's nice, for a low res screen
Oct 29 17:08:52 <MohammadAG> meh-y on a full size laptop
Oct 29 17:09:26 <DocScrutinizer> gnomes are windows kinks that thought "We can do THAT, on linux"
Oct 29 17:10:40 <MohammadAG> that's kde :P
Oct 29 17:10:43 <RST38h> Doc: Same goes for kde people
Oct 29 17:11:11 <MohammadAG> KDE4 looks like windows 7
Oct 29 17:11:13 <RST38h> As to "graphical shells" they suck by definition
Oct 29 17:11:19 <MohammadAG> or windows 7 looks like KDE4
Oct 29 17:11:22 <DocScrutinizer> nope, KDE was an alternative for cde, and it had *none* of the windows principles under the hood when they started
Oct 29 17:11:37 <RST38h> Replacing functional desktop metaphore with crappy menu systems
Oct 29 17:11:44 <RST38h> Doc: yea, right
Oct 29 17:12:00 <DocScrutinizer> then original team abandoned ship, and KDE4 jumped in, which is another bunch of... *beeep*
Oct 29 17:13:10 <DocScrutinizer> gnome was invented when people thought KDE2 wasn't windowish enough for them
Oct 29 17:13:57 <DocScrutinizer> too complex, too configurable, too few requesters and wizards
Oct 29 17:14:10 <DocScrutinizer> so they invented gnome
Oct 29 17:14:56 <DocScrutinizer> that's history as I like to think about it
Oct 29 17:15:06 * RST38h uses gnome
Oct 29 17:15:07 <DocScrutinizer> dunno if it's all the facts
Oct 29 17:15:19 <RST38h> Whatever you like to think of history, it is a bit different :)
Oct 29 17:15:32 <sivang> KDE has gone a long way,I think it is a much of a saner choice for folks who want to really use their computers to fullest
Oct 29 17:15:46 <RST38h> allyou need is google for "gnome wiki" and read the history section
Oct 29 17:15:59 <DocScrutinizer> sivang: has been true until and excluding KDE4
Oct 29 17:18:22 <sivang> DocScrutinizer: what happened there?
Oct 29 17:18:53 <sivang> I've recently checked what it give on a desktop, so sure you need fairly strong machine to carry it
Oct 29 17:19:13 <sivang> but everybody are doing this, including ubuntu wuth UNity limiting users to have acelerated graphics support
Oct 29 17:19:21 <DocScrutinizer> sivang: KDE4 is a stinking pile of segfaulting shit, as they did a complete rewrite it seems
Oct 29 17:20:22 <GNUtoo|laptop> hmmm
Oct 29 17:20:24 <GNUtoo|laptop> DocScrutinizer, hi
Oct 29 17:20:26 <GNUtoo|laptop> oops
Oct 29 17:20:29 <GNUtoo|laptop> wrong channel
Oct 29 17:20:38 <DocScrutinizer> hi nevertheless
Oct 29 17:20:46 <sivang> DocScrutinizer: hmm, isn't this a bit harsh ;) ?
Oct 29 17:21:01 <RST38h> Seattle investigators have discovered a cache of heavy explosives beneath a new cruise ship terminal.
Oct 29 17:21:35 <TiagoTiago> what would happen if i tried installing ofono on the N900?
Oct 29 17:22:08 <derf> Chaos in the streets. Dogs and cats, living together.
Oct 29 17:22:13 <TiagoTiago> were there also fuses or the explosives were just stored there?
Oct 29 17:22:57 <maybeArgh> oh yeh mighty n900 community
Oct 29 17:23:06 <maybeArgh> what's a good bluetooth headset for a cheapskate like myself?
Oct 29 17:23:07 <TiagoTiago> s/fuse/detonator/
Oct 29 17:23:08 <infobot> TiagoTiago meant: were there also detonators or the explosives were just stored there?
Oct 29 17:27:06 <SpeedEvil>  np: It ain't heavy, it's my C4.
Oct 29 17:27:28 <iksaif> PaulFertser if you're still here, could you try with : http://xf.iksaif.net/dev/qtm/libqtm-location_1.0.2-maemo4%2b0m5_armel.deb
Oct 29 17:27:29 <sivang> SpeedEvil: hehehe
Oct 29 17:27:43 <PaulFertser> iksaif: sure
Oct 29 17:32:41 <PaulFertser> iksaif: yep, works here all right.
Oct 29 17:33:27 <iksaif> cool
Oct 29 17:33:36 <iksaif> I'm going to do a very ugly thing
Oct 29 17:33:49 <iksaif> ship a fixed libQtLocation in /opt/lugdulov/lib/
Oct 29 17:33:56 <iksaif> and LD_LIBRARY_PATH the thing :p
Oct 29 17:34:07 <iksaif> just to lazy to link it statically
Oct 29 17:35:29 <TiagoTiago> i'm seeing ofono avaiable in Synaptic, will it mes things up if i ttry installing it on my N900?
Oct 29 17:35:41 <lcuk> iksaif, have you offered a bug/patch/MR to fix the issue upstream?
Oct 29 17:36:50 <sjk> i bought a n900 today!
Oct 29 17:36:59 <jacktheripper> does multiboot support btrfs ?
Oct 29 17:37:04 <TiagoTiago> yay! :D
Oct 29 17:37:10 <iksaif> lcuk: I'm doing it
Oct 29 17:37:11 <jacktheripper> congrats! xD
Oct 29 17:37:24 <lcuk> :) iksaif great stuff
Oct 29 17:38:00 <iksaif> bug report sent, mail with patch sent to .deb maintainers, merge request will be sent later.
Oct 29 17:38:30 <sjk> spent twenty minutes talking to the guy in the shop... got a 170 eur discount :)
Oct 29 17:38:34 <lcuk> which tracker did you file bug with? (link?)
Oct 29 17:39:46 <dsg> jacktheripper: No, FAT16 only (not even FAT32).
Oct 29 17:40:05 <jacktheripper> dsg: multiboot supports ext3..
Oct 29 17:40:08 <dsg> (if by multiboot you mean u-boo)
Oct 29 17:40:26 <iksaif> lcuk: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-646
Oct 29 17:40:34 <jacktheripper> dsg: I mean the multiboot package, don't know if it's also called u-boot.
Oct 29 17:40:47 <dsg> jacktheripper: Oh sorry, no, that's something different. Ignore me then. :)
Oct 29 17:41:05 <jacktheripper> dsg: haha np :D
Oct 29 17:41:36 <TiagoTiago> do i have to change the repos' settings relacing 1.2 with 1.3 when present?
Oct 29 17:42:00 <TiagoTiago> i mean, would there be any benefit in doing that?
Oct 29 18:07:12 <Aranel> Anyone tried this yet?: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.237:_arbitrary_size_for_.2Fhome_and_MyDocs_.28PR_1.2.2F3_compatible.29
Oct 29 18:08:04 <MohammadAG> SpeedEvil, I think
Oct 29 18:08:51 <MohammadAG> well, repartitioning /home and MyDocs anyways
Oct 29 18:09:55 <Aranel> yup, without reflashing, if it works ok =)
Oct 29 18:12:09 <ruskie> Aranel, I did some similar stuff
Oct 29 18:12:22 <ruskie> /dev/mmcblk0p2         21G   14G  5,8G  71% /home
Oct 29 18:12:24 <ruskie> /dev/mmcblk0p4        3,7G 1002M  2,5G  29% /home/opt
Oct 29 18:12:28 <ruskie> /dev/mmcblk0p1        4,9G  3,0G  1,7G  65% /home/user/MyDocs
Oct 29 18:12:32 <ruskie> :)
Oct 29 18:13:36 <Aranel> ruskie: so It went good? yay! ^^ Did you do it on a fresh install or "dirty" one?
Oct 29 18:14:47 <ruskie> Aranel, see solution #3 on that page.. just under it's title ;)
Oct 29 18:15:15 <ruskie> this was more or less the first thing I did when I got the n900
Oct 29 18:15:15 <svuorela>  /win 33
Oct 29 18:15:17 <svuorela> fail
Oct 29 18:15:31 <ruskie> and that will be a year in a little over a monh
Oct 29 18:15:57 <ponyofdeath> hi I am getting an pkg error about python2.5-minimal depends on pymaemo-optify any ideas how to fix?
Oct 29 18:16:46 <Aranel> ruskie: If I rsync / from N900 to my Ubuntu box, can I return to it If I brick my precious? :)
Oct 29 18:17:08 <ruskie> Aranel, using this most likely: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html
Oct 29 18:17:20 <Aranel> ruskie: thank you! ^^
Oct 29 18:17:29 <ruskie> tough that's probably overkill for what you want
Oct 29 18:17:41 <ruskie> unless you have data you want to backup
Oct 29 18:18:57 <Aranel> ruskie: I'm using the same installation from the day I bought N900 (PR1.0 ~ nearly a year ago)
Oct 29 18:19:08 <ruskie> lol
Oct 29 18:19:19 <ruskie> I've reflashed it atleast a dozen time since then
Oct 29 18:19:26 <Aranel> ruskie: so I would be happy to backup some data :P
Oct 29 18:19:36 <ruskie> I should probably do a backup sometime
Oct 29 18:20:27 <Noobmonk3y> wow Aranel !
Oct 29 18:20:57 <Aranel> ruskie: It's a pretty stable OS. Before N900 I was using Symbian and I reflashed it at least 2 times in 6 months, I didnt do any hacks, anything bad.
Oct 29 18:21:09 <ruskie> Aranel, yeah mine was heavily hacked first
Oct 29 18:21:21 <ruskie> then with pr1.2 reflash I toned down the hacks
Oct 29 18:21:22 <Aranel> Noobmonk3y: sup? :)
Oct 29 18:21:28 <ruskie> since it's not such a stable OS
Oct 29 18:21:32 <ruskie> it's very very fragile
Oct 29 18:21:49 <ruskie> all the hacks I did on m5 should be survivable on any other distro...
Oct 29 18:22:03 <Noobmonk3y> hehe was just wowing the still on 1.0  part ;) - evvvvening!
Oct 29 18:22:03 <Aranel> ruskie: what about meego rescue initrd? It looks like a solution to "bricked" situations.
Oct 29 18:22:11 <ruskie> Aranel, I used that today ;)
Oct 29 18:22:13 <dRbiG> i'm still suprised that maemo actually holds together :)
Oct 29 18:22:28 <ruskie> after I forgot to run a depmod for the new kernel ;)
Oct 29 18:22:36 <ruskie> took me most of the day to work it out
Oct 29 18:22:42 <Aranel> Noobmonk3y: nope I'm not on 1.0, upgraded it to 1.1.1, then 1.2 and now 1.3. It's still working ^^
Oct 29 18:22:46 <ruskie> since how to access ubifs is different than the rest
Oct 29 18:22:49 <Noobmonk3y> ahh cool :P
Oct 29 18:23:04 <ruskie> and then had to roll my own busybox with the ubiattach applets as well
Oct 29 18:23:15 <MohammadAG> 1.0 is awesome
Oct 29 18:23:23 <MohammadAG> was*
Oct 29 18:23:51 <Samsunix> Eny idea how to get live-wallpaper working on maemo ?
Oct 29 18:24:00 <ruskie> what's that?
Oct 29 18:24:18 <Samsunix> mmm... it's like aero on windows 7 (living wallpaper)
Oct 29 18:24:26 <Noobmonk3y> MohammadAG: Trout 1.0 was better ;)
Oct 29 18:24:27 <Aranel> ruskie: It would be great If you write a HOWTO document for it :)
Oct 29 18:24:27 <Samsunix> android has one
Oct 29 18:24:29 <ruskie> again what's that
Oct 29 18:24:34 <Noobmonk3y> the N900 was just missing gills :(
Oct 29 18:24:42 <GAN900> Samsunix, install Live Wallpaper.
Oct 29 18:24:59 <Samsunix> mmm...
Oct 29 18:25:07 <ruskie> Aranel, erm? I'm more thinking of providing an initrd and a kernel to be smart enough to restore
Oct 29 18:25:09 * MohammadAG wants an electric guitar
Oct 29 18:25:21 <MohammadAG> anyone feel like giving me one? :P
Oct 29 18:25:26 <ruskie> I'm also hoping the new dual-boot method that pr1.3 introduces could be usable there
Oct 29 18:25:43 <MohammadAG> I just a way to write to /dev/mtd5 cleanly
Oct 29 18:25:52 <MohammadAG> then we can flash rootfss on device
Oct 29 18:25:58 <ruskie> ??
Oct 29 18:25:59 <Noobmonk3y> :| ?
Oct 29 18:26:03 <Aranel> ruskie: ^^ I hope so.
Oct 29 18:26:03 <Samsunix> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/live-wallpaper/ these ?
Oct 29 18:26:08 <Samsunix> shit it's booring
Oct 29 18:26:15 <Samsunix> and dosnt look cool
Oct 29 18:26:38 <Aranel> Samsunix: sorry If I misunderstood you, but why don't you use HAM if  you want to install some app? Doesn't it work?
Oct 29 18:26:43 <MohammadAG> then make uboot boot a recovery OS, that allows me to select an image from a 200MB partition
Oct 29 18:26:49 <Noobmonk3y> ahhh i get it!
Oct 29 18:26:51 <Noobmonk3y> i likies
Oct 29 18:27:19 <Samsunix> aranel it does
Oct 29 18:27:19 * MohammadAG ponders nand_write
Oct 29 18:27:23 <ruskie> MohammadAG, something like that is what I was thinking...
Oct 29 18:27:35 <Aranel> MohammadAG: I'm a huge fan of you. Just wanted to say it. :D
Oct 29 18:27:36 <MohammadAG> ruskie, I know :P
Oct 29 18:27:48 <ruskie> but I don't know how to do the uboot magic
Oct 29 18:27:53 <MohammadAG> lol fanks :P
Oct 29 18:27:56 <ruskie> that's what I'd like to have first
Oct 29 18:28:03 <MohammadAG> ruskie, make the SD bootable
Oct 29 18:28:04 <ruskie> just to boot into the main OS
Oct 29 18:28:10 <MohammadAG> but that's not a difficulty
Oct 29 18:28:24 <ruskie> basically want a menu to pick an OS
Oct 29 18:28:25 <MohammadAG> writing to the ubifs blocks is harder
Oct 29 18:28:32 <MohammadAG> dd kills em
Oct 29 18:28:42 <ruskie> ubiattach
Oct 29 18:28:43 * MohammadAG pokes Stskeeps
Oct 29 18:28:48 <ruskie> mount /dev/ubi0
Oct 29 18:29:00 <ruskie> write to it
Oct 29 18:29:08 <MohammadAG> that's not flashing though is it :P
Oct 29 18:29:22 <MohammadAG> hmm
Oct 29 18:29:25 <MohammadAG> technically
Oct 29 18:29:35 <MohammadAG> err, s/technically/actually/
Oct 29 18:29:39 <MohammadAG> you have a point
Oct 29 18:29:42 <ruskie> :)
Oct 29 18:29:45 <MohammadAG> mount /dev/mtd5, you don't need to attach
Oct 29 18:29:51 <ruskie> you need to attach
Oct 29 18:29:56 <MohammadAG> then tar -xzvf a tar with permissions kept
Oct 29 18:29:58 <ruskie> can't mount it directly
Oct 29 18:30:01 <MohammadAG> ruskie, not on device :)
Oct 29 18:30:06 <MohammadAG> you can
Oct 29 18:30:08 <ruskie> I did it on the device
Oct 29 18:30:09 <ruskie> just today
Oct 29 18:30:11 <ruskie> using meego
Oct 29 18:30:15 <MohammadAG> mount ubi0:rootfs /mnt
Oct 29 18:30:28 <ruskie> yeah... but to get that working you need ubifsattach
Oct 29 18:30:34 <ruskie> else you don't get ubi0
Oct 29 18:30:43 <MohammadAG> interesting
Oct 29 18:30:52 <ruskie> and the meego busybox lacks that
Oct 29 18:30:56 <MohammadAG> i got it on ubuntu 9.10 without using ubiattach
Oct 29 18:31:10 <MohammadAG> kernel differences I suppose
Oct 29 18:32:03 <ruskie> I'd like to make a full blown recovery initrd that one could put on an sdcard to load it through uboot(which I'm assuming one could enter stuff)
Oct 29 18:32:25 <ruskie> but the uboot kernel should be on the device
Oct 29 18:32:36 <MohammadAG> or on the SD card
Oct 29 18:32:46 <ruskie> I don't want it there... atleast not as primary
Oct 29 18:33:04 <MohammadAG> why? uboot boots the kernel from SD
Oct 29 18:33:21 <ruskie> I want the choice of SD or internal
Oct 29 18:33:34 <ruskie> in uboot
Oct 29 18:33:55 * MohammadAG wonders how xchat plugins work
Oct 29 18:34:03 <mgedmin> MohammadAG, badly
Oct 29 18:34:33 <mgedmin> on every xchat startup on my laptop I get an error from a plugin: xchat_print called without a valid context.
Oct 29 18:35:37 <MohammadAG> mgedmin, works quite well :P
Oct 29 18:35:40 <Myrtti> irssi ftw ♥
Oct 29 18:35:41 <MohammadAG> I guess it depends on the script
Oct 29 18:36:01 <Myrtti> I've tried using xchat couple of times
Oct 29 18:36:16 * mgedmin tried learning irssi a couple of times, felt too old for that
Oct 29 18:36:19 <Myrtti> I usually end up wanting to stab something, and am happy to have my irssi back
Oct 29 18:37:46 * MohammadAG felt too young for irssi :P
Oct 29 18:37:57 <MohammadAG> it annoyed me in some places
Oct 29 18:37:57 <Myrtti> http://irssi.org/themefiles/dark_winter.png pink ♥
Oct 29 18:38:23 * MohammadAG keeps forgetting you're a she lol
Oct 29 18:38:27 <ruskie> lol
Oct 29 18:39:05 <ruskie> http://ruskie.codemages.net/scry/index.php/view/44/misc/screen1.png <-- that's mine same one for years
Oct 29 18:39:42 <mgedmin> ruskie, is that a horrible font, or a horribly scaled image?
Oct 29 18:39:59 <ruskie> mgedmin, click on the link under the image
Oct 29 18:40:00 <slonopotamus> Myrtti: ubuntu-offtopi ?!
Oct 29 18:40:17 <slonopotamus> ah, channel name
Oct 29 18:40:39 <Myrtti> slonopotamus: yes, from years gone by
Oct 29 18:41:12 <RST38h> mooo heffalump, myrtti
Oct 29 18:41:16 <RST38h> mgedmin too
Oct 29 18:41:23 <Myrtti> moooo
Oct 29 18:44:02 * slonopotamus mumbles incomprehensively
Oct 29 18:44:07 * RST38h notices that other people present are not old enough farts to compare
Oct 29 18:44:10 <Myrtti> a bit bored, considering continuing on the biography of Alfred Nobel, tipping my toes in some coding or getting a döner
Oct 29 18:44:32 <RST38h> ircii, inside ssh, green-on-black, no colors or highlighting support
Oct 29 18:44:43 <Myrtti> RST38h: tried that. Wasn't too much fun
Oct 29 18:44:56 * RST38h is kinda used to it, using it since 1991
Oct 29 18:45:02 <ruskie> mgedmin, the font I've been using for years now in terms is Aerial Mono and I love that font... even made the n900 use it now
Oct 29 18:45:14 <RST38h> actually, I should probably make it 1993
Oct 29 18:45:30 <Myrtti> RST38h: we had the difficult decision back in school to pick between 16-bit and 32-bit mIRC
Oct 29 18:45:44 <Myrtti> and that scary trumpet winsock was looming in the background
Oct 29 18:46:01 <lcuk> Myrtti, get the kebab, read a book
Oct 29 18:46:16 <RST38h> Myrtti: When Mardambey's children laid waste on the IRC, it was already considered the end of the *true* IRC experience :)
Oct 29 18:46:22 * slonopotamus has just reinvented Aho-Corasick algorihm and feels depressed because wanted to name it by himself
Oct 29 18:46:30 <Myrtti> RST38h: *shrug* I was 16 then
Oct 29 18:46:42 <RST38h> slono: You can always change your name to Aho Corasick
Oct 29 18:46:56 <slonopotamus> RST38h: i think that's two people
Oct 29 18:47:01 <RST38h> Myrtti: Shit. Now I *really* feel like an old fart :)
Oct 29 18:47:07 <RST38h> slono: Will it matter?
Oct 29 18:48:30 <slonopotamus> RST38h: meh, easier to invent something different
Oct 29 18:48:32 <Myrtti> RST38h: I had a revelation today though, a minor celebrity known mainly for being a bad singer, bad striptease act and having poor judgement on men announced she's pregnant and is going to be a wonderful mum at age 32 - I've always thought she was well over 40... I feel a bit relieved and less fretty about my own age now
Oct 29 18:49:00 <Myrtti> OMG! how cute http://instagr.am/p/GTNQ/
Oct 29 18:49:13 <RST38h> slono: [state-of-factly] Ahuy Harassick not taken yet.
Oct 29 18:49:48 <RST38h> Myrtti: Sudden recognition of the character you are talking about made me feel even worse.
Oct 29 18:50:09 <RST38h> Myrtti: But there is a redeeming factor there: I have not heard a single song by her. :)
Oct 29 18:50:42 <Myrtti> RST38h: I doubt you know her really, unless you're a connoisseur of 3rd rate Finnish wannabe celebs
Oct 29 18:51:07 <Myrtti> I certainly wish I'd know less
Oct 29 18:52:36 <RST38h> Mariah Carey
Oct 29 18:52:41 <Myrtti> yeah, not her
Oct 29 18:52:55 <Myrtti> MC looks fairly decent
Oct 29 18:53:14 <Myrtti> and she can actually sing, even if her music isn't to everyones liking.
Oct 29 18:53:17 <RST38h> Oh, this means they are getting pregnant in droves
Oct 29 18:53:37 <RST38h> heya javispedro
Oct 29 18:54:19 <javispedro> hi
Oct 29 18:54:30 <Myrtti> "FireShepherd floods the wireless network with packets to turn off FireSheep" have to agree with Hyppönen, I'm not too sure if that is such a good idea...
Oct 29 18:55:06 <RST38h> Depends on the way you construct a packet
Oct 29 18:55:21 <Myrtti> but Firesheep isn't the problem
Oct 29 18:55:25 <Myrtti> *shrug*
Oct 29 18:55:29 <javispedro> why, oh, why gitorious doesn't have a bugtracker
Oct 29 18:55:54 <RST38h> Yea, but they cannot fix the actual problem (no https support by many sites)
Oct 29 18:56:09 <RST38h> javis: so that you cannot bother developers with your petty reports? =)
Oct 29 18:56:29 <javispedro> RST38h: it is way more easier to ignore a bug report than to ignore a pm storm =)
Oct 29 18:56:51 <RST38h> Meanwhile:Stopping Malaria By Immunizing Mosquitoes
Oct 29 18:57:01 <RST38h> javispedro: both are easy
Oct 29 18:57:37 * alterego contemplates working on mixing QML and GLES 2.0
Oct 29 18:59:09 <Myrtti> damned flashplugin
Oct 29 18:59:25 <Myrtti> just randomly the loads on my lappy skyrocket :-(
Oct 29 18:59:39 <javispedro> even Adobe is trying to ditch flash
Oct 29 19:00:14 <dion> guys, could anybody suggest. For some reason pulseaudio doesn't starts on my n900 during boot. So there is no sound.. where it should start?
Oct 29 19:00:42 <dion> /etc/event.replace.d/pulseaudio exists.. but who will call it?
Oct 29 19:01:04 <javispedro> on upstart, the file itself should say when it starts
Oct 29 19:01:12 <javispedro> (in what I can only call one of the most horrible features ever made)
Oct 29 19:01:28 <MohammadAG> javispedro, is there a way to disable desktop composition outside fullscreen?
Oct 29 19:01:38 <javispedro> MohammadAG: killing h-d
Oct 29 19:01:45 <dion> javispedro: any way to debug it? I've verified that I can start pulseaudio by hands
Oct 29 19:02:00 <MohammadAG> err
Oct 29 19:02:03 <javispedro> MohammadAG: do touch /etc/no_dsme_reboots or whatever that file is called these days
Oct 29 19:02:51 <MohammadAG> I don't have the watchdog enabled anyways
Oct 29 19:02:57 <MohammadAG> I can run the N900 without X
Oct 29 19:03:01 <javispedro> good
Oct 29 19:03:39 <javispedro> dion: nope, but you might want to install syslog and see if it says anthing remotely useful
Oct 29 19:03:50 <javispedro> s/nope/none that I know of
Oct 29 19:06:59 <MohammadAG> The window manager applies compositing for all top-level windows by default. This behavior can be disabled by setting the Qt::WA_Maemo5NonComposited widget attribute on a top-level widget. javispedro what about this?
Oct 29 19:07:09 <javispedro> old
Oct 29 19:07:17 <javispedro> prePR 1.1 not even fullscreen windows were composited
Oct 29 19:07:49 <javispedro> so to get any sane performance drnoksnes had to set that property
Oct 29 19:08:04 <MohammadAG> javispedro, so the app _has_ to be fs to be non composited...
Oct 29 19:08:06 <javispedro> *were uncomposited, sorry.
Oct 29 19:08:18 <ds3> is it me or did the latest update made some things faster?
Oct 29 19:08:27 <javispedro> MohammadAG: obvious reasons: the titlebar is drawn via OpenGL.
Oct 29 19:08:29 <dion> javispedro: got it.. it looks like the issue was disk full on /
Oct 29 19:08:34 <messerting> ~pr1.3
Oct 29 19:08:34 <javispedro> MohammadAG: so, no OpenGL, no title bar.
Oct 29 19:08:35 <infobot> pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54
Oct 29 19:08:38 <MohammadAG> ds3, yeah, trolls leaving
Oct 29 19:09:19 <ds3> MohammadAG: no, this is actual use. mail seems to no get wedged as much either
Oct 29 19:09:51 <ds3> I just don't have enough run time to find out if it is faster or I haven't pushed it hard enough
Oct 29 19:10:06 <MohammadAG> ds3, I use Nokia Messaging, so modest was pretty fast for me
Oct 29 19:10:13 <MohammadAG> but yeah, I guess it is faster
Oct 29 19:10:17 <ds3> ah I se
Oct 29 19:10:37 <ds3> previously I had to killall modest daily to keep receiving mail (I'm on POP)
Oct 29 19:11:51 <RST38h> ds2: that is pre-pr12
Oct 29 19:12:23 <ds3> RST38h: for me it was 1.2 only... pre1.2 didn't wedge as much
Oct 29 19:12:34 <RST38h> weird
Oct 29 19:13:20 <ds3> I was pleasantly surprised when a Maemo upgrade showed up in app mgr AND things felt faster after the reboot
Oct 29 19:14:30 <messerting> I don't understand this; I have too little rootfs space to upgrade to 1.3, but after uninstalling about 60MB of apps, I still only have about 30MB free?
Oct 29 19:15:44 <RST38h> we do not know. it is magic.
Oct 29 19:15:49 <ruskie> messerting, apt-get clean
Oct 29 19:15:53 <ruskie> messerting, also try a reboot
Oct 29 19:15:54 <javispedro> and reboot
Oct 29 19:16:10 <joga> most programs don't go to root
Oct 29 19:16:22 <messerting> ok, will do apt-get clean. Have rebooted
Oct 29 19:16:40 <MohammadAG> most apps you uninstalled are probably installed to /opt
Oct 29 19:16:40 <maybeArgh> so i was playing asphalt5... and it was a bit choppy :/
Oct 29 19:16:50 <maybeArgh> but then i noticed i still had xplane running in the background all the time \o/
Oct 29 19:16:58 <ruskie> lol
Oct 29 19:17:06 <MohammadAG> asphalt 5?
Oct 29 19:17:09 <MohammadAG> preenv?
Oct 29 19:17:12 <maybeArgh> yeah
Oct 29 19:17:44 <joga> there ought to be some oneliner to list package names of all programs that reside on rootfs sorted by size ;)
Oct 29 19:17:50 <messerting> MohammadAG: ok, that explains it. Will dig around in the filesystem to find what apps are in /
Oct 29 19:18:21 <MohammadAG> messerting, du -h in /usr
Oct 29 19:18:34 <MohammadAG> I think DocScrutinizer said | sort -n works
Oct 29 19:18:41 <MohammadAG> so du -h | sort -n | more
Oct 29 19:18:42 <messerting> MohammadAG: 350.9M  /usr
Oct 29 19:18:45 <joga> with -h it's not consistent
Oct 29 19:18:52 <MohammadAG> cd bin
Oct 29 19:18:52 <DocScrutinizer> du -x /|sort -n
Oct 29 19:19:08 <MohammadAG> ty DocScrutinizer
Oct 29 19:19:28 <DocScrutinizer> -x for not traversing filesystems
Oct 29 19:19:50 <MohammadAG> meh, ignore | more
Oct 29 19:19:52 <DocScrutinizer> sort numeric won't work on du -h
Oct 29 19:19:59 <MohammadAG> it sorts from smallest to large
Oct 29 19:20:08 <joga> you can reverse it with sort -nr
Oct 29 19:20:09 <mgedmin> messerting, try sync; that used to help
Oct 29 19:20:57 <messerting> ok, I'll uninstall emacs now ;)
Oct 29 19:23:08 <mgedmin> also, best way to free up a dozen megs is to temporarily disable application catalogues
Oct 29 19:23:11 <mgedmin> such as extras
Oct 29 19:23:19 <mgedmin> /var/lib/apt takes a bunch of space
Oct 29 19:23:31 <mgedmin> for package lists
Oct 29 19:23:49 <messerting> mgedmin: but apt-get clean fixes that, right?
Oct 29 19:23:52 <mgedmin> no
Oct 29 19:23:53 <RST38h> you can move it to mmd
Oct 29 19:23:54 <mgedmin> never
Oct 29 19:23:55 <RST38h> mmc
Oct 29 19:24:02 <mgedmin> apt-get clean cleans /var/cache/apt/archives
Oct 29 19:24:20 <messerting> whoa, emacs took 77MB
Oct 29 19:24:20 * mgedmin moved his /var/lib/apt to /opt somewhere
Oct 29 19:24:52 <javispedro> pfft.
Oct 29 19:25:02 <javispedro> I just got a "maintainer request" for one package of mine from a guy
Oct 29 19:25:04 <javispedro> a) I don't know
Oct 29 19:25:05 <messerting> my /var/lib/apt/ take only 7.4MB
Oct 29 19:25:07 <javispedro> b) has 3 karma points
Oct 29 19:25:26 <javispedro> all of them come from the default garage project
Oct 29 19:25:29 <RST38h> javis: does he know what maintaining a packqge is?
Oct 29 19:25:53 <javispedro> RST38h: no idea, as the "maintainer request" doesn't force users to at least fill a textfield with some explanation
Oct 29 19:26:02 <javispedro> it's just clickety click, confirm, go
Oct 29 19:26:09 <javispedro> spam.
Oct 29 19:26:23 <pupnik_> heyy javispedro
Oct 29 19:26:29 <javispedro> hi pupnik_
Oct 29 19:26:50 <javispedro> so, getting a Pandaboard?
Oct 29 19:26:55 <pupnik_> is sdl + gl a way to get portable 3D between n900 and x86?
Oct 29 19:27:05 <messerting> ~flashing
Oct 29 19:27:06 <infobot> methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Oct 29 19:27:09 <pupnik_> dunno javispedro
Oct 29 19:27:13 <javispedro> pupnik_: you'd also need GLES emulation libraries in x86
Oct 29 19:27:29 <javispedro> pupnik_: with that, you could patch SDL_gles to use those and build in on x86, then yes.
Oct 29 19:27:42 <pupnik_> that could be useful, no?
Oct 29 19:27:56 <javispedro> something like that is already used by for ex. the palm sdk
Oct 29 19:28:03 <pupnik_> http://i.imgur.com/Do9RA.png  my latest music 'shader'
Oct 29 19:28:29 <pupnik_> hm
Oct 29 19:28:51 <javispedro> pupnik_: as said you should make those winamp or gstreamer visualizations :)
Oct 29 19:29:35 <pupnik_> not hard to do
Oct 29 19:29:41 <messerting> I'm confused: In one of the links given by ~pr1.3, it says I should apt-get dist-upgrade, but in the title here, it says I shouldn't. Is it okay if I do "apt-get update;apt-get install maemo-sdk-opt" first?
Oct 29 19:30:30 <javispedro> what are you trying to update, a sdk or the device?
Oct 29 19:30:46 <javispedro> for the sdk, both apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade would be fine
Oct 29 19:30:58 <javispedro> for the device, suggested is to use h-a-m
Oct 29 19:31:37 <hrw|uds> ~pr1.3
Oct 29 19:31:38 <infobot> pr1.3 is, like, the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54
Oct 29 19:31:47 <messerting> javispedro: I'd like to update only the device to pr1.3. I'll go with h-a-m
Oct 29 19:32:10 <MohammadAG> javispedro, how do I graphically accelerate my SDK?
Oct 29 19:32:11 <javispedro> that infobot fact should  be changed, sdk release notes can confuse newbs
Oct 29 19:32:17 <MohammadAG> tried to make what you gave me, got some errors
Oct 29 19:32:19 <hrw|uds> javispedro: do that then?
Oct 29 19:32:26 <messerting> ok, I see now that what I read was for the sdk :)
Oct 29 19:32:50 <MohammadAG> ~no infobot, pr1.3 is not http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54
Oct 29 19:32:50 <infobot> MohammadAG: okay
Oct 29 19:32:58 <MohammadAG> ~pr1.3
Oct 29 19:32:58 <infobot> pr1.3 is probably not http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54
Oct 29 19:33:10 * MohammadAG facepalms
Oct 29 19:33:20 <javispedro> ~pr1.3
Oct 29 19:33:20 <infobot> pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update
Oct 29 19:33:36 <hrw|uds> thx javispedro
Oct 29 19:33:38 <javispedro> there's no wiki page for "fixing" h-a-m to link to, though
Oct 29 19:34:05 <hrw|uds> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/10/29/i-got-efika-mx-smartbook-from-genesi/
Oct 29 19:34:46 <javispedro> ~pr1.3
Oct 29 19:34:47 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update
Oct 29 19:34:54 <javispedro> linking to wiki instead of nokia.com
Oct 29 19:35:38 <javispedro> MohammadAG: I admit it is hard to setup, you should check the original vmgl docs as I did not write any =)
Oct 29 19:36:47 <javispedro> ... not to mention it's starting to bitrot, I wouldn't be surprised if it does not build in uber recent xorg versions
Oct 29 19:37:28 <MohammadAG> meh, nvm then :P
Oct 29 19:37:38 <MohammadAG> The SDK runs fast enough on an i5
Oct 29 19:38:05 <javispedro> btw, if you see the video, you'll note that vmgl does not have support for shaders
Oct 29 19:38:11 <javispedro> so the background blur effect does not work
Oct 29 19:38:13 <javispedro> subtle :)
Oct 29 19:38:30 <GAN900> PR1.3 is so lame they didn't even bother with a changelog this time.
Oct 29 19:39:36 <chx> um
Oct 29 19:39:49 <chx> GAN900: you do realize that QT 4.7 is a huge, huge deal?
Oct 29 19:40:03 <hrw|uds> chx: qt 4.7 was already available for maemo5
Oct 29 19:40:13 <chx> easier if built in, no?
Oct 29 19:40:22 <hrw|uds> no big deal, really
Oct 29 19:40:28 <GAN900> chx, Maemo 5 is only incidental to it and PR1.3, though.
Oct 29 19:40:29 <javispedro> yes, but not exactly mind boggling work from nokia :)
Oct 29 19:40:39 <GAN900> javispedro, +++++
Oct 29 19:40:46 <chx> pfffft, Nokia and mind boggling?
Oct 29 19:40:46 <ioan> is the power kernel updated to the last version (the one from PR1.3)?
Oct 29 19:40:52 <chx> you are in the wrong decade for that.
Oct 29 19:40:57 <GAN900> chx, in summary, Nokia still sucks.
Oct 29 19:41:07 <chx> there is no doubt to THAT
Oct 29 19:41:20 * javispedro 's wireless mouse batteries run out.. can't focus outside irc, dammit!
Oct 29 19:41:23 <javispedro> /quit
Oct 29 19:41:25 <GAN900> Well, good that we're clear then.
Oct 29 19:52:13 <BCMM> is fcam working in 1.3?
Oct 29 19:56:09 <Aranel> How can I force fsck? I'm using 1.6 gb of /home but I got only 70meg free, so I wonder where did other 300~ go, I want to do fsck.
Oct 29 19:57:20 <Myrtti> traditionally fsck is forced by making a file called forcefsck in the root of the partition
Oct 29 19:57:27 <mgedmin> Aranel, have you tried du -x /home yet?
Oct 29 19:57:29 <Myrtti> but don't know if it works on N900
Oct 29 19:57:52 <Aranel> mgedmin: saw it on Storage Usage. Wait a min, I'm doing it :)
Oct 29 19:59:27 <Aranel> Myrtti: yup I know it works on my Ubuntu box but I'm pretty sure it's not working on N900.
Oct 29 20:00:43 <Aranel> 1873344 /home and 73.0 Free. Hmm, now It's reasonable. Storage Usage confused me. Thanks for the tip ^^
Oct 29 20:01:25 <Aranel> but I'm still curious about can't I run fsck on N900, can I?
Oct 29 20:03:04 <mgedmin> maybe you can
Oct 29 20:03:10 <mgedmin> I've no idea how...
Oct 29 20:03:19 <mgedmin> umount /home will likely complain about it being used
Oct 29 20:03:32 <mgedmin> dual-boot meego from sd card, run fsck that way
Oct 29 20:03:33 <mgedmin> ?
Oct 29 20:03:48 <mgedmin> fsck on a mounted partition == extremely unhealthy
Oct 29 20:04:36 <lpjhjdh> would a general cross compilation question be kosher here?
Oct 29 20:04:38 <Aranel> hmm yeah maybe dual-booting can help, so I can fsck rootfs too.
Oct 29 20:04:49 <lpjhjdh> libtool is making me cry
Oct 29 20:05:35 <lpjhjdh> trying to cross compile glib and since prefix=/usr it's picking up my host libdl rather than my $ROOTFS/lib/libdl despite -rpath-link and -L$ROOTFS/lib/libdl
Oct 29 20:05:41 <lpjhjdh> any recommendations?
Oct 29 20:06:06 <lpjhjdh> I'm also using LIBTOOL=arm-none-linux-gnueabi-libtool
Oct 29 20:08:17 <messerting> It seems I've got every locale installed on my device. Can I uninstall the languages I don't use? 22MB in /usr/lib/locale and 12MB in /usr/share/locale
Oct 29 20:12:27 <BCMM> ~flashing
Oct 29 20:12:28 <infobot> flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Oct 29 20:17:01 <BCMM> am i right in thinking that "flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R" won't touch the contents of ~/MyDocs?
Oct 29 20:25:23 <TiagoTiago> this can't be a good sign
Oct 29 20:26:00 <makis> is someone using man-db package from extras-devel? when I type man ls Im getting error "pager: applet not found. man: command exit with status 256: pager -s"
Oct 29 20:26:33 <TiagoTiago> last boot, whenever i went to or from the apps menu instead of the backgrounf blurring i saw random triangles flashing in the bacckground (like "polygon tearing")
Oct 29 20:27:00 <TiagoTiago> i rebooted and it stopped happening, but that it happened at all still worries me
Oct 29 20:28:21 * Noobmonk3y may have figured out qt layouts!!! -> dont use them!
Oct 29 20:28:40 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 29 20:29:21 <Noobmonk3y> 5 days trying to get one thing right
Oct 29 20:29:24 <Noobmonk3y> tis a bloody mare!
Oct 29 20:29:30 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: yep
Oct 29 20:29:50 <BCMM> does it usually take ages to boot right after flashing?
Oct 29 20:30:02 <DocScrutinizer> makis: install less
Oct 29 20:30:17 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: thanks
Oct 29 20:30:29 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: yes
Oct 29 20:30:51 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: ?
Oct 29 20:31:02 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: how do you create qt ui?
Oct 29 20:31:03 <TiagoTiago> has anyone ever heard of thos happening?
Oct 29 20:31:13 <Noobmonk3y> hrw|uds: using the gui :|
Oct 29 20:31:23 <Noobmonk3y> ie qtcreator
Oct 29 20:31:30 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: layout elements are easy
Oct 29 20:31:38 <Noobmonk3y> not wiuth what i'm doing supposedlt
Oct 29 20:31:47 <Noobmonk3y> and #qt and #qt-maemo are ever so quiet lol
Oct 29 20:32:02 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: you just add widgets, then select few, put them in layout, select next ones, put in layout and finally add layout for whole window
Oct 29 20:32:25 <Noobmonk3y> ok, still not gonna help me!! done that for 5 days, tried all types of layouts lol , let me explain
Oct 29 20:32:35 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: i was doing something else while it booted, and after a couple of minutes realised it hadn't made any noises with a start and thought i was in the dreaded bootloop
Oct 29 20:32:40 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: show screenshot of ui?
Oct 29 20:33:36 <Noobmonk3y> on landscape i want 2 sets of columns (label label, label label) - but portrait i want them to wrap to fit the screen, so 1 set of two colums
Oct 29 20:33:51 <Noobmonk3y> ie (label label) on each line
Oct 29 20:34:15 <Noobmonk3y> got it auto rotating fine, but it just seems layouts refuse to either resize, flow or go where i want them
Oct 29 20:34:28 <hrw|uds> ok, now I uderstand
Oct 29 20:34:51 <hrw|uds> you want to reflow UI
Oct 29 20:34:53 <DocScrutinizer> Noobmonk3y: this won't ever happen automatically
Oct 29 20:34:53 <Noobmonk3y> surely i cant be the first? - as the lscape is wider, and portrait taller lol
Oct 29 20:35:04 <Noobmonk3y> DocScrutinizer: why didnt you tell me that monday when asking lol!
Oct 29 20:35:08 <Noobmonk3y> :p
Oct 29 20:35:10 <Noobmonk3y> but thank you!
Oct 29 20:35:14 <DocScrutinizer> a 4 col layout remains a 4 col layout
Oct 29 20:35:22 <Noobmonk3y> i'm currently in the process of manually positioning it all
Oct 29 20:35:28 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: NO!!
Oct 29 20:35:32 <Noobmonk3y> hrw|uds: meh
Oct 29 20:35:41 <DocScrutinizer> Noobmonk3y: use two layouts
Oct 29 20:35:44 <Noobmonk3y> another four days to figure out a "reflow Ui"?
Oct 29 20:35:46 <Noobmonk3y> i did
Oct 29 20:35:51 <Noobmonk3y> and even tried repositioning
Oct 29 20:35:59 <Noobmonk3y> they refused to go where i wanted, one just vanished!
Oct 29 20:36:13 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: does it is label1 label2, label3 label4 and has to be label1 label2\nlabel3 label4 in portrait?
Oct 29 20:36:30 <Noobmonk3y> preferably yes!
Oct 29 20:36:41 <Noobmonk3y> (and well described!)
Oct 29 20:36:43 <hrw|uds> how you generate labels?
Oct 29 20:36:56 <Noobmonk3y> created in the gui
Oct 29 20:37:00 <hrw|uds> looks like best would be to have two UI layouts in application
Oct 29 20:37:01 <Noobmonk3y> as i'm playing with stylesheets etc
Oct 29 20:37:14 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: what app does? what are labels?
Oct 29 20:37:20 <Noobmonk3y> oooo - gonna be a pain, all within a stacked widget with 9 widgets lol
Oct 29 20:37:30 <Noobmonk3y> hrw|uds: re-invention of healthcheck
Oct 29 20:37:36 <Noobmonk3y> 9 pages *
Oct 29 20:37:58 <hrw|uds> healthcheck? was it that app with nightmare ui?
Oct 29 20:38:02 <Noobmonk3y> yup ;)
Oct 29 20:38:10 <Noobmonk3y> so this time, i'm gonna do it right!
Oct 29 20:38:19 <Noobmonk3y> anyway that was my first ever forway into pyqt lol
Oct 29 20:38:24 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: first of all: drop any css from it
Oct 29 20:38:31 <Noobmonk3y> thistime, my first ever time into c++/qt - or whatever it is
Oct 29 20:38:40 <Noobmonk3y> aghhh no! - cos thats what made it shite last time!
Oct 29 20:38:46 <hrw|uds> let it look like normal application not as some design nightmare
Oct 29 20:38:49 <Noobmonk3y> and it now looks sexy in landscape
Oct 29 20:38:53 <Noobmonk3y> may just keep in in lscape
Oct 29 20:39:17 <hrw|uds> Noobmonk3y: we have different definition of 'sexy' look of app
Oct 29 20:39:22 <Noobmonk3y> very true :p
Oct 29 20:39:31 * Noobmonk3y autorotation is now leaving the app!
Oct 29 20:39:34 <Noobmonk3y> yay - battery saving!
Oct 29 20:39:36 <Noobmonk3y> wooop
Oct 29 20:41:38 * Noobmonk3y relaxes, looks so much easier now ;)
Oct 29 20:46:16 <jacktheripper> hey, for me, sometimes haptic feedback + audio work, and sometimes not. I have to reboot the N900 to get any change, and these two are always coupled
Oct 29 20:46:22 <jacktheripper> anybody else having that problem ?
Oct 29 20:47:11 <Jaizuke> Hey everyone, is TMO down?
Oct 29 20:47:54 <jacktheripper> it is
Oct 29 20:48:06 <Noobmonk3y> :P
Oct 29 20:48:23 <Jaizuke> Ah I see.
Oct 29 20:48:39 <Jaizuke> Hey mohammad
Oct 29 20:49:56 * hrw|uds off
Oct 29 20:50:01 <hrw|uds> have a nice weekend
Oct 29 20:50:14 <MohammadAG> hi
Oct 29 20:50:40 <Noobmonk3y> hey mo
Oct 29 20:50:57 <Jaizuke> umm, I was wondering if you could help me with your combined modified hildon package?
Oct 29 21:00:58 <sjk> ~pr1.3
Oct 29 21:00:58 <infobot> [pr1.3] the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update
Oct 29 21:01:23 <_llll_> a bad day to have left my charger at work, clearlt
Oct 29 21:04:04 <Noobmonk3y> _llll_: lol :P
Oct 29 21:06:30 <messerting> Great, PR1.3 installation done. System is up, and seems to work (just as before).
Oct 29 21:07:38 <mgedmin> _llll_, no microUSB cables nearby?
Oct 29 21:09:34 <TiagoTiago> any news on that project of making a new equializer for the N900 to make the speakers not be so lame?
Oct 29 21:09:51 <TiagoTiago> equalizer*
Oct 29 21:10:06 <kerio> MNZ, where art thou
Oct 29 21:10:09 <kerio> :(
Oct 29 21:10:15 <kerio> TiagoTiago: MNZ was working on it
Oct 29 21:10:32 <kerio> using hw filters to do what the nokia speaker protection does, and more
Oct 29 21:10:33 <TiagoTiago> Do you know how far he had got?
Oct 29 21:10:46 <TiagoTiago> that would rock
Oct 29 21:10:48 <kerio> i think he was stuck at writing the ui for the EQ
Oct 29 21:11:11 <TiagoTiago> i thought it was just gonna bypass the software limitations potentially reducing the life of the speakers
Oct 29 21:11:14 <kerio> he'd need to emulate a multiband equalizer with two (or four?) filters
Oct 29 21:11:22 <kerio> huh? no
Oct 29 21:11:23 <kerio> of course not
Oct 29 21:11:38 <kerio> *replacing* the nokia protection was in the works from the beginning ofc
Oct 29 21:11:50 <kerio> even more than having just audio directly from the codec to the speakers
Oct 29 21:12:10 <kerio> although i still want that
Oct 29 21:12:28 <kerio> so pa+mafw doesn't rape my cpu
Oct 29 21:12:39 <kerio> he said there wouldn't be that much of a battery life gain though
Oct 29 21:12:48 <kevloral> Hello all
Oct 29 21:13:05 <TiagoTiago> Do you know if the loudness would at least get close to what the N73 an do?
Oct 29 21:13:29 <joga> heh misread loudness for loneliness
Oct 29 21:13:44 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 29 21:13:54 <TiagoTiago> can*
Oct 29 21:13:54 <_llll_> mgedmin: oh, didnt think of that! cheers
Oct 29 21:14:10 <kerio> probably not, duh
Oct 29 21:14:14 <kerio> worse speakers
Oct 29 21:14:22 <kerio> software can only get you so far
Oct 29 21:14:23 <javispedro> kerio: that's the reason Nokia didn't do afaik (net battery life time would be reduced).
Oct 29 21:14:25 <crashanddie> heh
Oct 29 21:14:27 <kerio> (a.k.a. not much)
Oct 29 21:14:34 <javispedro> (re dsp xprot)
Oct 29 21:14:37 <crashanddie> looks like 4chan is ddos'ing riaa.org again
Oct 29 21:14:59 <BCMM> crashanddie: heh
Oct 29 21:15:07 <TiagoTiago> having a mobile that isn't loud at all is kinda emasculating :(
Oct 29 21:15:14 <kerio> lol phone speakers
Oct 29 21:15:18 * crashanddie shuts down perl scripts...
Oct 29 21:15:25 <BCMM> my favourite bit of stuff like that is when Slashdot posts a story about it just when they're recovering
Oct 29 21:15:28 <kerio> are you seriously using that
Oct 29 21:28:05 <tybollt> crashanddie: Awww let the b-tards have their fun, mum will soon tell them to go brush their teeth and head straight to bed anyway ;)
Oct 29 21:28:55 <javispedro> ... but they will leave their computers on, ofc.
Oct 29 21:29:15 <javispedro> wasting energy that could be used to... dunno, maybe powering my hair drier
Oct 29 21:29:26 <javispedro> *dryer
Oct 29 21:32:07 <trumee> I ma trying to flash on opensuse 11.3 and getting "Unable to enumerate USB buses". What does that mean?
Oct 29 21:32:23 <trumee> dont tell me i need a windows machined to flash N900. ugghh!
Oct 29 21:32:28 <javispedro> that usbfs is not mounted where flasher expects it, iirc.
Oct 29 21:32:51 <kerio> trumee: are you root?
Oct 29 21:33:00 <trumee> kerio: yes i am
Oct 29 21:33:04 <kerio> root or a user with the necessary capabilities
Oct 29 21:33:10 <trumee> kerio: i am root
Oct 29 21:34:00 <trumee> on the next try i get USB device found found at bus 001, device address 010
Oct 29 21:34:07 <trumee> Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy
Oct 29 21:36:28 <trumee> pity i need to find a windows machine. on my gentoo box it was fine, but opensuse crapped out
Oct 29 21:37:25 <tybollt> trumee: Opensuse 11.3 on your n900???
Oct 29 21:37:36 <trumee> tybollt: no on my laptop
Oct 29 21:38:35 <jacktheripper> how can I launch the mediaplayer from terminal ?
Oct 29 21:46:54 <MohammadAG> dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:"mediaplayer"?
Oct 29 21:56:47 <zap> Guys, anybody knows a way to force hildon desktop to re-read icon cache after installing my .deb file?
Oct 29 21:56:57 <zap> (other than killal hildon-desktop, that is)
Oct 29 22:03:02 <sivang> zap: isn't that doen with tracker somehow?
Oct 29 22:03:06 <sivang> hmm, prolly not
Oct 29 22:10:22 <javispedro> zap: there are some bugs out there whose # i don't remember, but it basically goes like touching /usr/share/icons/hicolor/hildon
Oct 29 22:10:42 * javispedro remembers an attached patch, wonder if it got into pr1.3...
Oct 29 22:11:07 <zap> p
Oct 29 22:11:56 <zap> but how hildon-desktop detects that a new icon appeared under hicolor? Sometimes it refreshes icons normally
Oct 29 22:12:32 <javispedro> it monitors some dir's mtime for updates
Oct 29 22:13:05 <lcuk> zap, its also based on the order of when the .desktop files are copied vs the icon files themselves
Oct 29 22:13:33 <zap> yes, I observed that when I touch the .desktop file it re-reads the list of applications
Oct 29 22:13:39 <zap> however, icons aren't refreshed
Oct 29 22:14:13 <javispedro> ah, here is that bug
Oct 29 22:14:17 <javispedro> bug #6931
Oct 29 22:14:18 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/6931 After installation of software last icon in list has default icon instead of own one
Oct 29 22:14:52 <javispedro> read last comment, actual dir to touch is /usr/share/icons/hicolor
Oct 29 22:15:36 <zap> now the question is: should I adapt packages to this bug, or wait for bugfixes :(
Oct 29 22:21:25 <alterego> zap: don't hold out for any more bug fixes
Oct 29 22:23:48 <zap> hmm, so the right sequence is: touch icons/hicolor, then touch .desktop file
Oct 29 22:23:55 <zap> tricky
Oct 29 22:36:46 <psYchotic> hey everyone, I'm having a problem with modest on PR1.3, it's nagging me about imap.gmail.com's SSL certificate having a bad signature
Oct 29 22:37:27 <psYchotic> and I'm not quite sure what to do. I've never had this problem before.
Oct 29 22:41:40 <psYchotic> hmm, never mind, it just stopped bothering me (not sure I like it, but it'll have to do for now). Thanks anyway
Oct 29 22:53:13 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: javispedro: you noticed the differences in CPU load while hooked to USB(-charger), from PR1.2 to PR1.3?
Oct 29 22:54:06 <javispedro> no..
Oct 29 22:54:30 <javispedro> wall charger or plain usb host?
Oct 29 22:55:37 <DocScrutinizer> both
Oct 29 22:55:39 <DocScrutinizer> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-29.log.html#t2010-10-29T07:40:24
Oct 29 22:56:15 <DocScrutinizer> E.G. hook to charger (stop all apps, lock screen), run powertop
Oct 29 22:57:02 <javispedro> bah, powertop is gone from repos again
Oct 29 22:57:30 * javispedro types packages.maemo.org again. arggggh!!!
Oct 29 22:58:15 <DocScrutinizer> kernel sucks power like mad, while VBUS detected(cause mere handwaving, so educated guess anyway). Will both kill battery cause keeping it floating at maxvolt when "charging" overnight, something that so far only happened when screen BL kept on. And will bite us for hostmode :-S
Oct 29 22:58:44 <javispedro> top says 99.5% idle at least
Oct 29 22:58:53 <DocScrutinizer> call me DocScrutinizer51 - gone for beer
Oct 29 22:59:00 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: duh what?
Oct 29 22:59:08 <DocScrutinizer> aah top
Oct 29 22:59:34 <javispedro> more like 99% on avg
Oct 29 23:00:02 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, but compare powertop of PR1.3 to that: http://pastebin.com/aYbMRGcQ
Oct 29 23:00:18 <javispedro> wait
Oct 29 23:00:24 <javispedro> http://pastebin.com/aYbMRGcQ is from pr1.2 or pr1.3
Oct 29 23:00:24 <javispedro> ?
Oct 29 23:00:48 <DocScrutinizer> oops, mompl
Oct 29 23:02:13 <DocScrutinizer> DocScrutinizer:  same as before, but with title, so nobody gets confused :-)   http://pastebin.com/QSHS6u3g
Oct 29 23:02:45 <javispedro> that's PR1.2? 50% of time at 600Mhz???
Oct 29 23:02:47 <javispedro> not very good either.
Oct 29 23:02:51 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Oct 29 23:03:02 <DocScrutinizer> but at least it enters C4
Oct 29 23:04:14 <DocScrutinizer> and AIUI it is 11.4% of time in C0 with 54.4% of that time @ 250MHz, the rest 500MHz
Oct 29 23:04:17 <pupnik_> having a 'mainframe' (in 1980s terms) in your pocket is pretty nifty
Oct 29 23:04:43 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: mine's locked at 500Mhz 100% of the time in PR1.3, deepest C state C1
Oct 29 23:04:52 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Oct 29 23:05:02 <DocScrutinizer> that's exactly what PR1.3 does
Oct 29 23:05:15 <DocScrutinizer> plus it eats power like mad
Oct 29 23:05:19 <ieatlint> must resist urge to order batteries, wire and random pcbs from yemen
Oct 29 23:05:33 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: it doesn't seem to get very hot
Oct 29 23:06:00 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: 33°C vs usual 25° here
Oct 29 23:06:47 <tripzero> PR1.3 gobbles up your battery!
Oct 29 23:06:48 * javispedro will wait until end of charge cycle in ~1 hour to unplug it
Oct 29 23:06:54 <DocScrutinizer> well that's not like "OMFG it eats more power than charger can provide" or death after 3h, but it's really nasty for e.g hostmode
Oct 29 23:07:16 <SpeedEvil> Or battery powered chargers.
Oct 29 23:07:26 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Oct 29 23:07:35 <SpeedEvil> Which is IMO a perfectly reasonable 'normal' use-case.
Oct 29 23:07:45 * javispedro sighs
Oct 29 23:07:50 <SpeedEvil> I think there is even a nokia external battery
Oct 29 23:07:51 <DocScrutinizer> or battery itself as bq24150 never detects end-of-charging
Oct 29 23:08:07 <DocScrutinizer> and keeps cell floating at 4.2V
Oct 29 23:08:45 <javispedro> any guesses at the cause?
Oct 29 23:08:46 <DocScrutinizer> or CPU which seems to be locked at 500 - something that Igor(?) of Nokia said "DONT DO THAT!"
Oct 29 23:08:58 <javispedro> 500 is in the "safe" range
Oct 29 23:09:09 <javispedro> it's 600 that's out of it
Oct 29 23:09:14 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: depends on VBUS detected, as it's happening on both charger and host
Oct 29 23:09:23 <javispedro> (so this means it is clearly intentional...)
Oct 29 23:09:50 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: and the culprit? kernel CPU usage seems average, so it looks like some lock indeed
Oct 29 23:09:52 <SpeedEvil> I vaguely remember there are constraints on 500
Oct 29 23:09:59 <SpeedEvil> maybe that is only industrial parts
Oct 29 23:10:09 <DocScrutinizer> kk, nevertheless I feel really friggin uncomfortable to keep my device hooked up to charger night after night
Oct 29 23:10:22 * javispedro already didn't do that eitherway
Oct 29 23:10:38 <SpeedEvil> Does it powersave when off?
Oct 29 23:10:42 <SpeedEvil> err
Oct 29 23:10:45 <SpeedEvil> unplugged
Oct 29 23:10:54 <DocScrutinizer> yes, pretty nicely indeed
Oct 29 23:10:54 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: you've made me uncomfortable doing it too now, bastard
Oct 29 23:10:58 <javispedro> SpeedEvil: ofc, battery life would have plumetted otherwise.
Oct 29 23:11:47 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: for hostmode I expect massive impact
Oct 29 23:11:47 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: well, since we still don't have android's wakelocks, I guess the culprit has to live in kernel space
Oct 29 23:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: it's clearly kernel as I can reproduce it with a PR1.3 kernel on a PR1.1.1 rootfs
Oct 29 23:12:37 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: briefed changes? are they small?
Oct 29 23:13:01 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser says he doesn't see anything that looks related
Oct 29 23:13:26 <DocScrutinizer> so it's a real nasty bugger
Oct 29 23:13:36 <javispedro> I still think it has to be intentional
Oct 29 23:13:41 <DocScrutinizer> unexpected side effect of some kind
Oct 29 23:13:47 <javispedro> :P
Oct 29 23:14:02 <DocScrutinizer> how could it?
Oct 29 23:14:09 <DocScrutinizer> why should it?
Oct 29 23:14:20 <DocScrutinizer> what use might this have anyway?
Oct 29 23:14:35 <javispedro> dunno, but 500 exactly.... should ring bells.
Oct 29 23:14:52 <javispedro> hmm..
Oct 29 23:14:57 <javispedro> speaking of bells..
Oct 29 23:15:03 <tripzero> original droid was 500MHz
Oct 29 23:15:05 <javispedro> wasn't there some other component that locked cpu in 500Mhz?
Oct 29 23:15:08 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, I remember somebody explaining CPU is fixed to xxxMHz while on USB host
Oct 29 23:15:18 <DocScrutinizer> for dunno what reasons
Oct 29 23:15:33 <DocScrutinizer> but for VBUS aka charger it's clearly a bug
Oct 29 23:15:40 <javispedro> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=commitdiff;h=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#patch9
Oct 29 23:16:01 <javispedro> NB#161191 - Rover does not differentiate charging downstream port
Oct 29 23:16:01 <javispedro> +    from dedicated charger  looks a candidate
Oct 29 23:16:19 <DocScrutinizer> exactly
Oct 29 23:17:05 <javispedro> but I agree with PaulFertser, actual code looks innocent...
Oct 29 23:17:20 <javispedro> hm..
Oct 29 23:17:52 <javispedro> there's a small change...
Oct 29 23:18:02 <javispedro> interrupts are enabled in musb when vbus detected
Oct 29 23:18:06 <javispedro> previously, they weren't.
Oct 29 23:18:33 <javispedro> s/vbus/charger
Oct 29 23:18:45 <DocScrutinizer> well, I did a good job - I brought it to your notice. :-) Now I'm afk again, for booze. My pub has last day, closing up for good
Oct 29 23:19:24 <javispedro> cya,
Oct 29 23:19:26 <javispedro> .
Oct 29 23:20:08 <javispedro> .
Oct 29 23:20:21 <javispedro> (err, sorry -- damn battery-less mouse...)
Oct 29 23:20:49 <mikeplus64> Somewhat-offtopic: Is there any n900 successor in the works?
Oct 29 23:22:52 <Buee> Need some help getting Ubuntu on to my N810, the file on the walkthrough is MIA.  Any one have the rootfs?
Oct 29 23:26:33 <ShadowJK> In 1.2 without bme, power consumption would immediately go up when vbus goes high. It would go down to reasonable levels again when I trigger the charger detection (assuming it's a wallcharger connected)
Oct 29 23:26:59 <ShadowJK> in 1.2 with stock maemo, it always did sit at 500MHz when connected to a PC host
Oct 29 23:28:28 <javispedro> so that's it.
Oct 29 23:28:54 <javispedro> this is the issue: previously musb ints were disabled when wall charger found (aka after charger_detect returned 1)
Oct 29 23:28:58 <javispedro> now they're on
Oct 29 23:29:03 <javispedro> for some reason this causes lock to 500Mhz?
Oct 29 23:29:18 <javispedro> :P
Oct 29 23:29:48 <ShadowJK> So, um, does anyone have or know of a "charging downstream port"
Oct 29 23:29:58 <ShadowJK> I'm sure I saw it in the USB charging spec but I don't remember
Oct 29 23:29:59 <javispedro> no fscking idea.
Oct 29 23:32:52 <javispedro> either way, I don't think is a show-stopper to h-e-n, as it will be just reverted to previous behaviour in kernel
Oct 29 23:33:03 <javispedro> in fact I think I will revert it on my kernel...
Oct 30 00:32:44 <DocScrutinizer51> ~botsnack
Oct 30 00:32:45 <infobot> DocScrutinizer51: :)
Oct 30 00:32:56 <Robot101> evening
Oct 30 00:33:05 <DocScrutinizer51> hi
Oct 30 00:33:10 <logisist> -botsnack
Oct 30 00:33:18 * Robot101 should be tucked up in bed but his train was delayed 2 hours :(
Oct 30 00:33:39 <DocScrutinizer51> meh
Oct 30 00:33:49 <logisist> Robot101: are you on your Maemo device?
Oct 30 00:34:13 <Robot101> no I'm on my Thinkpad X200s
Oct 30 00:34:17 <Robot101> my N900 is charging :)
Oct 30 00:34:46 <logisist> boooo
Oct 30 00:34:53 <logisist> err
Oct 30 00:34:58 <logisist> I'm on my Dell E6510
Oct 30 00:48:55 <Termana> morning
Oct 30 00:49:19 <Robot101> moin
Oct 30 00:51:45 <TiagoTiago> Is there somthing like the UDK (the free game development kit for Unreal engine)  for the N900?
Oct 30 00:53:07 <luke-jr> TiagoTiago: you mean gratis? or is it actually free?
Oct 30 00:53:34 <TiagoTiago> you don't have to pay, but some parts of the engine are kept binary only
Oct 30 00:54:36 <TiagoTiago> If you wanna peek into the closed bits you gotta pay
Oct 30 00:57:10 <Termana> TiagoTiago, then the answer is gratis
Oct 30 00:57:11 <TiagoTiago> Some of the key features i have in mind when i say somthing like UDK, would be things like already ready for multiplayer, easy to make physical things (vehicles included), easy to test what you make (like, you edit the level, wire so,e physics and AI scripts, select a player mechanics script and hit a button and you're there playing just like when its deployed)
Oct 30 00:57:26 <TiagoTiago> etc
Oct 30 01:06:22 <luke-jr> TiagoTiago: so if you pay, it's free?
Oct 30 01:06:34 <luke-jr> or still non-free?
Oct 30 01:07:07 <TiagoTiago> there is still a proprietary license on the source code you get to see if you pay
Oct 30 01:08:30 <TiagoTiago> http://www.udk.com/licensing
Oct 30 01:11:34 <TiagoTiago> http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/DevelopmentKitFAQ.html#Licensing
Oct 30 01:12:12 <TiagoTiago> more specificily "Q: How does this differ from an Unreal Engine 3 license?"
Oct 30 01:25:56 * DocScrutinizer burps unreally
Oct 30 01:26:47 <TiagoTiago> reading there it refreshed my memory, its only free for non0comercial use (they even want in on the ads reveneu if you own the site that hosts the game files)
Oct 30 01:27:54 <DocScrutinizer> how's about ads *in* the game? losers
Oct 30 01:28:31 <TiagoTiago> i'm pretty sure that is covered somewhere in the license as well
Oct 30 01:28:44 <DocScrutinizer> seem to have been living under a stone while 2nd life seen daylight and died
Oct 30 01:28:52 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 30 01:29:06 <b-man_> hmm, there's a few typos in some of the examples in this C programming book LOL
Oct 30 01:29:24 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 30 01:30:33 <b-man_> title - "C Primer Plus - user-friendly guide to the c programing language - revised edition" :)
Oct 30 01:30:47 * DocScrutinizer shoots down pink " TiagoTiago " on laptop's screen with a 150mW green laser
Oct 30 01:31:24 <DocScrutinizer> NOOOOOO dead pixel :-/
Oct 30 01:31:37 <b-man_> DocScrutinizer: i have worse :(
Oct 30 01:31:37 <TiagoTiago> what?
Oct 30 01:32:06 <b-man_> DocScrutinizer: i have at least 3, plus a small horizontal line is starting to appear on my screen
Oct 30 01:32:10 <TiagoTiago> green laser affects liquid crystals?
Oct 30 01:32:34 <b-man_> (on my N900, btw)
Oct 30 01:32:36 <DocScrutinizer> TiagoTiago: I'm not going to try it, just kidding
Oct 30 01:32:59 <TiagoTiago> i see
Oct 30 01:33:10 <DocScrutinizer> b-man_: warranty
Oct 30 01:34:17 <DocScrutinizer> I seem to recall L1&2 service manual and specs require zero dead pixels for a device to pass QA
Oct 30 01:34:32 <b-man_> DocScrutinizer: i have to send mine to some stupid service center in Alabama which will charge me $180.00 just to look at it :(
Oct 30 01:34:44 <b-man_> and it'd be gone for 4 weeks
Oct 30 01:34:45 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Oct 30 01:34:55 <DocScrutinizer> move to a sane country
Oct 30 01:35:06 <b-man_> i wish i could XD
Oct 30 01:35:33 <DocScrutinizer> USA is so.... :X
Oct 30 01:35:52 <b-man_> indeed :(
Oct 30 01:36:22 <TiagoTiago> I wonder if anyone else has updated to pr1.3 using Synaptic
Oct 30 01:36:23 <DocScrutinizer> everybody over there seems to think USA is king of the world, and yet you need no enemies
Oct 30 01:36:29 <b-man_> the government is going down hill
Oct 30 01:36:54 <b-man_> too many f*cked up politicians
Oct 30 01:37:18 <DocScrutinizer> one word: moore
Oct 30 01:37:35 <TiagoTiago> Somthing big is coming, i can feel it, and it worries me deeply...
Oct 30 01:37:43 <b-man_> indeed
Oct 30 01:38:05 <DocScrutinizer> s/word/name
Oct 30 01:38:16 * b-man_ wouldn't be surprised to see a revolution in his lifetime at this rate
Oct 30 01:38:41 <DocScrutinizer> wait until oil peak passed by
Oct 30 01:38:59 <DocScrutinizer> then armour your doors and windows
Oct 30 01:39:25 <DocScrutinizer> peak oil is the term
Oct 30 01:39:45 <Robot101> http://www.worldometers.info/
Oct 30 01:40:33 <TiagoTiago> I used to think the biggest thing to happen in this century was gonna be the technological singularity, but i started to fear somthing much less utopic but of similar level of impact is nearing
Oct 30 01:41:00 <DocScrutinizer> Robot101: nice :-D
Oct 30 01:43:04 <DocScrutinizer> WAAAH - "emails sent today"
Oct 30 01:43:42 <TiagoTiago> that piece of data is meaningless without the count of spams received today
Oct 30 01:45:20 <TiagoTiago> "Road traffic accident fatalities this year" is way slower than i expected...
Oct 30 01:47:07 * DocScrutinizer wonders what's this site's notion of "today"
Oct 30 01:49:25 <ieatlint> i'm impressed at how slowly the "internet users" count is growing
Oct 30 01:50:29 <DocScrutinizer> >> 331,086,968,809   World spending on illegal drugs this year (US$)<< This HAS to change! LEGALIZE!
Oct 30 01:50:57 <b-man_> "1,155,865,858 Overweight people in the world right now" XD
Oct 30 01:51:25 <DocScrutinizer> I missed the underweight
Oct 30 01:51:31 <DocScrutinizer> like me
Oct 30 01:51:51 <ieatlint> hmmm... 42 years of oil left at current rate of consumption...
Oct 30 01:51:56 <b-man_> yup
Oct 30 01:51:58 <ieatlint> sounds like it won't be my problem
Oct 30 01:52:06 * ieatlint go fills his car up
Oct 30 01:52:09 <b-man_> it will be mine lol
Oct 30 01:52:34 <DocScrutinizer> actually most amazing fact is there's ore alcohol fatalities than suicides
Oct 30 01:52:44 <TiagoTiago> is the "gas" there gasoline or natural gas?
Oct 30 01:52:45 <Buee> b-man_: was trying your walkthrough for Ubu on the N810 and during the process, my N810 won't boot now
Oct 30 01:52:52 <ieatlint> blame china, we were much better off until they went and decided they wanted to be a developed country too
Oct 30 01:52:59 <ieatlint> TiagoTiago: natural gas
Oct 30 01:53:10 <b-man_> Buee: the packages in that tutorial are extremely old
Oct 30 01:53:20 <Buee> I bet, so is the device lol
Oct 30 01:53:25 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: don't wake the dragon!
Oct 30 01:53:32 <Buee> Tried NITDroid too, that won't work either
Oct 30 01:53:38 <ieatlint> awesome, 38m abortions this year
Oct 30 01:53:48 <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: :P
Oct 30 01:54:13 <b-man_> Buee: did you ask anyone about your problems at #nitdroid?
Oct 30 01:54:28 <TiagoTiago> but no count of children abandoned due to unwanted pregnancies
Oct 30 01:54:32 <DocScrutinizer> China and India will bust the globe in no time
Oct 30 01:54:42 <Buee> Yeah, tons of people in there, not a single one responding.  I'm betting most people don't care about the N810 and are all on the N900 now
Oct 30 01:54:42 <TiagoTiago> that seems biased
Oct 30 01:54:56 <ieatlint> only 1.488m people have died from alcohol this year?
Oct 30 01:54:58 <ieatlint> that seems low
Oct 30 01:55:05 <b-man_> Buee: unfortunately it seems that way
Oct 30 01:55:17 <DocScrutinizer> Buee: making friends?
Oct 30 01:55:44 <TiagoTiago> alsoo there is no counter for reforestation
Oct 30 01:55:47 <Buee> DocScrutinizer: Depends on how difficult I am to get this thing to boot again I guess
Oct 30 01:55:55 * DocScrutinizer pets his N810 (the active one of the couple)
Oct 30 01:56:29 <Buee> b-man_: the thing that gets me is I've reflashed with the known working image and it boot loops
Oct 30 01:56:52 <TiagoTiago> messed up boot loader?
Oct 30 01:57:34 <Buee> TiagoTiago: Dunno.  How can I tell
Oct 30 01:57:51 <TiagoTiago> no idea
Oct 30 01:58:38 <Buee> TiagoTiago: I was hoping a flash would unf*** anything I did
Oct 30 01:58:38 <DocScrutinizer> Buee: get a fresh battery, reflash
Oct 30 01:59:15 <DocScrutinizer> Buee: if no success, sell battery on ebay and spare parts N810n as well
Oct 30 02:00:54 <Buee> So no pearls of wisdom from some of the best N810 modders eh?
Oct 30 02:01:08 <DocScrutinizer> Buee: honestly, aiui if you nuked your NOLO on N8x0 you're pretty screwed. Get it to a center and coldflash
Oct 30 02:01:44 <DocScrutinizer> Buee: nevertheless odds are your problems are related to a worn out battery
Oct 30 02:01:47 <TiagoTiago> try tmo as well
Oct 30 02:02:11 <b-man_> Buee: have you tried reflashing again?
Oct 30 02:02:16 <Buee> DocScrutinizer: Battery was absolutely fine until I rebooted
Oct 30 02:02:25 <DocScrutinizer> says who?
Oct 30 02:02:44 <Buee> b-man_: Oh yeah, numerous times.  Even did the NITDroid image too and back to Nokia
Oct 30 02:02:53 <b-man_> DocScrutinizer: if it at least starts up, it may not be the botloader
Oct 30 02:03:01 <b-man_> hmm
Oct 30 02:03:11 <DocScrutinizer> flashing might fail on waek battery
Oct 30 02:03:20 <DocScrutinizer> failed flashing causes bootloop
Oct 30 02:03:26 <b-man_> Buee: was the battery full?
Oct 30 02:03:31 <Buee> I got the Nokia screen with green type across the screen
Oct 30 02:03:35 <DocScrutinizer> bootloop causes charging failure
Oct 30 02:03:37 <Buee> b-man_: Yes
Oct 30 02:03:41 <DocScrutinizer> you see the circle?
Oct 30 02:04:06 <luke-jr> Buee: the green type is R&D mode bootmenu
Oct 30 02:04:40 <Buee> No Circle. Nokia logo with an image of a tablet with a wrench over it underneath the logo and the USB logo in the upper right hand corner
Oct 30 02:04:45 <luke-jr> Buee: how are you charging your battery?
Oct 30 02:04:46 <b-man_> Buee: flasher-3.5 -f -F *.bin -R?
Oct 30 02:05:22 <b-man_> Buee: what flags are you using?
Oct 30 02:06:04 <Buee> b-man_: flasher-3.5 -f -F *.bin -R got me "Invalid FIASCO file header"
Oct 30 02:06:16 <luke-jr> actually, why can't N8x0 flash with power plugged in?
Oct 30 02:06:21 <Buee> b-man_: was using -f -k
Oct 30 02:06:30 <DocScrutinizer> Buee: reflash!
Oct 30 02:06:42 <b-man_> -k flashes kernel
Oct 30 02:06:55 <b-man_> you need a full reflash
Oct 30 02:07:13 <TiagoTiago> any chance you know how i can set a deadzone for the accelerometer on Duke Nukem 3D (on the N900) ?
Oct 30 02:07:42 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: it can, it's just you need to hold 'u' when it ""boots"", and it boots when power applied
Oct 30 02:08:03 <b-man_> Buee: did you follow any of this? http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware
Oct 30 02:08:22 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: something along that line, in my book
Oct 30 02:08:35 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: I don't recall having to press anyhting
Oct 30 02:09:04 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: that's because you hadn't PSU plugged :-D
Oct 30 02:09:12 <luke-jr> I must have…
Oct 30 02:09:16 <luke-jr> my battery is fried
Oct 30 02:09:29 <luke-jr> at least, BME forces a shutdown immediately if I unplug it
Oct 30 02:09:33 <DocScrutinizer> dissect xloader & NOLO
Oct 30 02:10:12 <DocScrutinizer> it's all about entering flashing mode instead of booting kernel
Oct 30 02:10:22 <luke-jr> oh
Oct 30 02:10:30 <luke-jr> that, I just run flasher before plugging it in
Oct 30 02:10:50 <DocScrutinizer> there's no *technical* reason why you can't have it hooked up to wallwart
Oct 30 02:11:22 <TiagoTiago> then how does the new firmware gets there?
Oct 30 02:11:43 <DocScrutinizer> TiagoTiago: by telepathy
Oct 30 02:11:50 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 30 02:12:33 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, just read the log. You don't press U on the N8x0 like you do on the N900. You just plug the USB cable in
Oct 30 02:12:57 <DocScrutinizer> no, you actually hold "home" button
Oct 30 02:13:41 <DocScrutinizer> which is N8x0's 'u'
Oct 30 02:15:20 <DocScrutinizer> and I'm absolutely sure I read *somewhere*: "you can plug in powersupply after flashing started"
Oct 30 02:16:37 <DocScrutinizer> see, as long as there's a power source it's _impossible_ to really switch off the N8x0
Oct 30 02:17:58 <DocScrutinizer> MEH!
Oct 30 02:18:39 * DocScrutinizer *hates* being urged to kill browsers that gone apeshit and eat 90% CPU
Oct 30 02:19:31 <DocScrutinizer> hooray for Adobe & flash-fsckit
Oct 30 02:19:42 <Buee> b-man_: That got it this time.  Anyone have any recommendations for the OS on this thing besides Maemo.  Tried Ubuntu, obviously no success there.  Tried NITDroid, but I think the 8GB SD card is my problem there
Oct 30 02:19:46 <Termana> DocScrutinizer, that's no different on the N900, unless it's completely dead
Oct 30 02:19:59 <DocScrutinizer> yo
Oct 30 02:20:16 <DocScrutinizer> modulo you got no barrel jack on N900
Oct 30 02:20:57 <Termana> No, but you said power source
Oct 30 02:20:58 <DocScrutinizer> which actually is one of the major brainfucks
Oct 30 02:21:34 <DocScrutinizer> credits and flames go to China and EU
Oct 30 02:21:45 <DocScrutinizer> and USB-cert
Oct 30 02:21:53 <Termana> If you plug the N900 into a wallwart or USB, how is that not a "power source"? :P
Oct 30 02:22:20 <DocScrutinizer> nobody said it's not
Oct 30 02:22:42 <TiagoTiago> i hate how some fullscreen games  trap the N900 if you do anything to come out of it without actualy closing it, leaving holding the pwoer button down as the only way to regain control of the device
Oct 30 02:23:00 <SpeedEvil> camkeyd
Oct 30 02:23:04 <SpeedEvil> or something similar
Oct 30 02:23:09 <DocScrutinizer> lo SpeedEvil
Oct 30 02:23:17 <SpeedEvil> lo.
Oct 30 02:23:33 <SpeedEvil> Night all.
Oct 30 02:23:35 <TiagoTiago> The games in question eon't let you click on anything outside of it
Oct 30 02:23:39 <TiagoTiago> won't*
Oct 30 02:23:42 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: cya
Oct 30 02:24:09 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: tomorrow I'll think of you while eating my raspberry bread
Oct 30 02:24:22 <TiagoTiago> cya
Oct 30 02:25:49 <DocScrutinizer> TiagoTiago: ctrl-BS ??
Oct 30 02:26:04 <TiagoTiago> nope, keys also inutilized, except for the power button
Oct 30 02:26:15 <DocScrutinizer> eeew
Oct 30 02:26:28 <DocScrutinizer> ssh; killall
Oct 30 02:26:33 <TiagoTiago> two games that mess it up like this are OpenArena and Duke Nukem 3D
Oct 30 02:26:40 <DocScrutinizer> apt-get --nuke
Oct 30 02:27:17 <TiagoTiago> hm, ok, next time i'll trying SSH (i hope it isn't when i away from a computer i can do that with
Oct 30 02:27:22 <DocScrutinizer> ~xyawn
Oct 30 02:27:23 <infobot> i heard xyawn is big coffee
Oct 30 02:27:30 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, really
Oct 30 02:27:40 <DocScrutinizer> ~xyawn
Oct 30 02:27:40 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, xyawn is coffee
Oct 30 02:27:58 * DocScrutinizer shrugs and prepares a cup
Oct 30 02:29:32 <TiagoTiago> woah, that was trippy, i yawned and as the yawn was dieing some vehicle passed on a nearby street, the frequency of the noise from the vehicle seemed to resonate with the room and with my sinuses, it felt like my yawn continued to sound even after i stopped yawning; only after the vehicle moved away enough that i understood what was going on
Oct 30 02:31:45 <Termana> TiagoTiago, if you just tap the power button (not hold) the normal power menu will come up and you can press "Kill current task"
Oct 30 02:31:56 <DocScrutinizer> where's it growing?
Oct 30 02:32:09 <TiagoTiago> can't click on anything
Oct 30 02:32:18 <TiagoTiago> that includes the power button menu
Oct 30 02:32:31 <Termana> Hmm
Oct 30 02:32:37 <Termana> well I have a better solution anyway
Oct 30 02:32:47 <TiagoTiago> It seems the games trap mouse and keys even while not focused
Oct 30 02:32:51 <Termana> Don't play crappy games
Oct 30 02:33:08 <Termana> Problem solved
Oct 30 02:33:11 <TiagoTiago> lol
Oct 30 02:33:47 <DocScrutinizer> Myrtti: now what is this? :-D
Oct 30 02:36:48 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly if it's been >20 or >30 years he last time had such powerful psychedelic substances
Oct 30 02:38:15 <DocScrutinizer> siping my coffee
Oct 30 02:39:22 <DocScrutinizer> glaring on T900 with that PR1.3 kernel. Powered down for the first time in 6 months
Oct 30 02:40:42 * DocScrutinizer patting
Oct 30 02:40:55 <DocScrutinizer> petting IroN900
Oct 30 02:41:11 <DocScrutinizer> the one with PR1.2
Oct 30 02:41:11 <Proteous> ...
Oct 30 02:49:35 * DocScrutinizer wonders how to end a call by pressing/engaging either power-, or cam-, or lock-switch
Oct 30 02:50:42 <DocScrutinizer> screen with all that rotation transitions and proximity locking is too slow for what I usually want from a phone
Oct 30 02:51:05 <DocScrutinizer> kill call has to be less than 500ms
Oct 30 02:55:26 <ebzzry_> I can't seem to enter flasher mode. I'm using bootmenu.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 30 02:59:57 2010