**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 08 02:59:57 2010 Nov 08 03:00:06 lo raster Nov 08 03:00:57 johnx: so what? does that make meego any better? Nov 08 03:01:02 Termana: beep Nov 08 03:01:29 does that prove Nokia's extensive support for N900-meego? Nov 08 03:01:39 if the maemo one is FOSS and better, why hasn't anyone pushed the improvements? Nov 08 03:02:02 wmarone, because people complain in IRC rather than improve things Nov 08 03:02:43 johnx: I'm at least complaining - others do nothing. I *checked* both sources side by side Nov 08 03:02:48 supported isnt black and white Nov 08 03:02:50 its a scale Nov 08 03:02:56 it has many levels of gray Nov 08 03:02:57 :) Nov 08 03:03:12 I'll agree with raster Nov 08 03:03:29 if u fixed 1 bug ever in a 5 year lifetiem of a product Nov 08 03:03:32 DocScrutinizer, so maybe we're just arguing semantics here Nov 08 03:03:54 and that was all it took to say "its supported"... i doubt anyone would agree with that evaluation Nov 08 03:04:00 for example Nov 08 03:04:32 the question is.. is the quality/level of support "acceptable" to someone Nov 08 03:04:41 everyone will draw a different line Nov 08 03:04:56 likely consumers/users will demand much more than the provider/company is willing to do Nov 08 03:05:01 so there will almost always be a gap Nov 08 03:06:06 wow, well thanks for ruining a perfectly good internet argument with your rationality Nov 08 03:06:15 raster: consumer wants working battery charging. Nokia isn't willing to open up the specs and instead is thinking evil tricks how to argue for keeping battery management closed Nov 08 03:06:28 THAT is Nokia support Nov 08 03:06:34 for meego Nov 08 03:06:44 so point it out on the mailing list Nov 08 03:06:44 johnx: hahhahaha Nov 08 03:06:55 maybe they're afraid of lawsuits? Nov 08 03:07:06 wmarone: wtf? do you think that fact is unknown? Nov 08 03:07:09 DocScrutinizer: you have a valid point Nov 08 03:07:19 * GeneralAntilles gets a bowl of ice cream before diving into mwkn. Nov 08 03:07:23 DocScrutinizer: if it's such a critical issue then why let it sit silent Nov 08 03:07:44 known but ignored isn't good Nov 08 03:07:54 wmarone: I never let it silent. I just gave up on it Nov 08 03:08:24 wmarone: you *might* have heard of jrbme.garage.maemo.org Nov 08 03:08:55 DocScrutinizer, if we have our own solutions for charging outside of BME, does it really matter if Nokia does anything about it? Nov 08 03:09:08 the only things i see that should not be open are Nov 08 03:09:17 1. things nokia dont own copyright too and thus cant control Nov 08 03:09:17 Termana: almost not really anymore Nov 08 03:09:50 2. things that dont run in the os (eg firmware on the wifi chip cpu, or on the modem cpu etc.) <- nice if they were open, but not needed Nov 08 03:10:34 3. highest level apps, if nokia want to keep their product look to themselves - make their own contact app, launcher, whatever closed and their own Nov 08 03:10:57 raster: for 1) they need to find a way to cope with it. I asked for specs, and they for sure own he specs of their devices and batteries Nov 08 03:10:57 but keep the middleware, drivers, base, services and core display system open Nov 08 03:11:29 DocScrutinizer: #1 is intended to cover things like sgx opengl libs Nov 08 03:11:41 nothing nokia can do about license there. imgtec is in charge Nov 08 03:11:44 i wonder if nokia is afraid of malware causing battery `explosions' or something like that... Nov 08 03:12:03 raster, which is basically the case, besides the exception of PulseAudio speaker protection and BME Nov 08 03:12:07 nox-: whatever they are afraid of, it's mere nonsense Nov 08 03:12:19 it's their utter incompetence Nov 08 03:12:22 Termana: battery driver as best i know Nov 08 03:12:34 as well Nov 08 03:12:41 raster, the kernel driver is open, BME isn't though Nov 08 03:13:00 thats just the userspace part of the driver Nov 08 03:13:00 :) Nov 08 03:13:09 raster: nope Nov 08 03:13:23 there *is no* kernel part Nov 08 03:13:27 (much like gl - kernel part vs userspace component). Nov 08 03:13:33 DocScrutinizer, yeah but if they could end up being sued in america etc? Nov 08 03:13:36 raster, no, the userspace and kernel driver is independent in BME's case Nov 08 03:13:58 DocScrutinizer: well kernel part has to at least be an i2c line or some mmeaped region made available to userspace. Nov 08 03:14:10 it may simply be recycling an existing syscall :) Nov 08 03:14:16 nox-: sorry I'm not going thru the last year's debate all again Nov 08 03:14:24 ok :) Nov 08 03:14:29 nox-: all moot points Nov 08 03:14:48 and that's the whole bottom line I will share on this Nov 08 03:14:48 * nox- was just wondering about their reasons anyway Nov 08 03:15:14 i suspect it'd either be that its a fear of exploding batterties + begin sued Nov 08 03:15:15 (last year i wasnt here :) Nov 08 03:15:28 and anything that may make it easier to make that happen engenders major fear Nov 08 03:15:30 i guess Nov 08 03:15:50 their reasons: IP in bme, we have no competence inhouse to even sort that out, we have no manpower to even look at it Nov 08 03:15:55 raster: there is no kernel part that deals with charging - it's BME talking directly over I2C Nov 08 03:15:57 either that or nokia do indeed not own something somewhere and they cant release as owner of ip wont let it out Nov 08 03:16:15 SpeedEvil: still need to talk to kernel to talk i2c :) Nov 08 03:16:23 thats just a generic kernel driver tho Nov 08 03:16:27 raster: Any malware can simply kill BME, and set battery charge voltage to 4.3V Nov 08 03:16:32 (that's the hardware limit) Nov 08 03:17:14 It's highly questionable if that would cause explosions, even one in a few thousand batteries you do it to. Nov 08 03:17:23 b-man`: and what you think I'm doing atm Nov 08 03:17:47 SpeedEvil, ok Nov 08 03:18:10 and that's the whole point. bme is bullshit. the hardware is fine. the specs are no 3rd party IP. Nokia were stupid if they'd believe there's any danger in helping with FOSS charging Nov 08 03:18:10 SpeedEvil: what does an d doesnt happen isnt the issue... it's the FEAR of it happening Nov 08 03:18:11 javispedro: ? Nov 08 03:18:15 even 1 in 10,000 Nov 08 03:18:22 b-man`: a fbdev -> x11 wrapper =) Nov 08 03:18:22 Indeed. Nov 08 03:18:26 if it blows up while in luggage on a plane Nov 08 03:18:32 javispedro: ah :) Nov 08 03:18:37 and plpane has a fire, plunges into the ocean... Nov 08 03:18:39 But the right way to deal with this is a driver in kernel that enforces the 4.3 limit Nov 08 03:18:46 nokia would have some mucho bad PR Nov 08 03:19:14 if they figure out it was an exploding nokia n900 which had some hacked up drivers based on their5 src for the battery charging logic Nov 08 03:19:15 anyway Nov 08 03:19:22 they may or may not even get sued Nov 08 03:19:28 raster: BS, how do you Nov 08 03:19:34 i dont know if it would happen or someone would win Nov 08 03:19:39 but.. nokia are afraid of it Nov 08 03:19:41 *charge* battery in luggage of plane?? Nov 08 03:19:42 its a fear Nov 08 03:20:03 .oO("I am at least complaining, others do nothing" goes into javispedro's quote book) Nov 08 03:20:06 DocScrutinizer: leave plugged into laptop to charge. keep laptop on Nov 08 03:20:15 haha Nov 08 03:20:16 dont pick nits :) Nov 08 03:20:24 my point is that even 1 in 10,000 Nov 08 03:20:27 or 1 in 100,000 case Nov 08 03:20:32 can turn into a massive pr disaster Nov 08 03:20:35 were it to happen Nov 08 03:20:38 and they are afraid Nov 08 03:20:50 now if that fear is really justified is another matter Nov 08 03:20:54 how likely is it? Nov 08 03:21:03 Well, now we've got a lot of burnt out hackers. Nov 08 03:21:05 shouldnt they simply make sure that software cannot do any such thing? Nov 08 03:21:07 So, too bad Nokia. Nov 08 03:21:21 ie hardware enforces safety checks Nov 08 03:21:24 raster: what if the 500 7' nails in your luggage pierce the cell? this probably will cause a fire. Charging definitely won't Nov 08 03:21:30 maybe thats an issue for a future device Nov 08 03:21:31 it's nice and easy to characterize "Nokia" as a monolithic entity with singular motivations, but the reality is probably that the programmers and possibly even *everyone* on the Maemo/MeeGo team want to open source the BME code and just can't get it past the legal department Nov 08 03:21:40 btw DocScrutinizer, if you get jrbme into usable state go tell Stallman; there was a page where he or one of his minions said that "the common joke is that you cannot charge the 'open' n900 with free software" :) Nov 08 03:21:42 DocScrutinizer: ahahha Nov 08 03:21:43 :) Nov 08 03:22:00 johnx: thats very likely Nov 08 03:22:02 johnx, doesn't make me more inclined to give the monolith my time or money these days. Nov 08 03:22:10 johnx: i have had to wrestle with similar crap Nov 08 03:22:20 where i firmly believe it to be a gpl violation Nov 08 03:22:22 legal dept disagrees Nov 08 03:22:35 raster, so have I. and my company is made up of like 100 people total Nov 08 03:22:37 and the other division that owns the code refuses to release it even to another internal division Nov 08 03:22:43 I can't even imagine how insane it is in a big corp Nov 08 03:22:45 raster: no "haha" - if user does bad to a Nokia device, no matter nails or a software, how can nokia say they want to try and stop that? Nov 08 03:22:51 and some 3rd divison has a requirements list REQUIRING that feature or no product ships Nov 08 03:22:53 etc. Nov 08 03:23:07 that reminds me of... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/14/nokia_dilbert/ Nov 08 03:23:39 DocScrutinizer: if nokia provided the source my bet is that nokia's legal dept looks at it as a "we provided the tools to do it and made it easy - therefor legally we bear at least some responsibility" Nov 08 03:23:45 dont think like an eningeer Nov 08 03:23:49 think like a lawyer Nov 08 03:24:06 DocScrutinizer: you're not going to win this discussion. Nov 08 03:24:22 GAN900, fair enough. I got burnt out for a while and took a "holiday" from it for most of a year. I came back refreshed and with some perspectives that I didn't have before. Nov 08 03:24:49 raster: if they DO NOT share the specs how to treat their battery properly, they bear much more of a part of the fault if jrbme would ever go boom Nov 08 03:25:04 DocScrutinizer: that's not lawyer thinking. Nov 08 03:25:08 johnx: its nuts in a big company. when u have a few hundred thousand people... :) Nov 08 03:25:17 If you screw around with shit that has warnings on it, it's your own damn fault when it blows up. Nov 08 03:25:33 DocScrutinizer: in a legal sense i'd say they wouldnt Nov 08 03:25:33 raster, I don't even want to think about it ... ugh Nov 08 03:25:42 from an engineers pov - yes Nov 08 03:25:57 but from the legal side.. i'd say no. Nov 08 03:26:12 going on a lawyer kill spree. wanna join? Nov 08 03:26:16 in fact, the lawyers probably consider keeping it closed source as some sort of "anti-tampering due diligence" Nov 08 03:26:36 GeneralAntilles: well not just warnings - when nokia actively makes it difficult and requires you go to great lengths to reverse-enigneer Nov 08 03:26:40 publishing specs can not create any legal fault. Otherwise they mustn't open up *any* part of their firmware Nov 08 03:26:57 DocScrutinizer: You have to consider why they added the "lock" feature into the fmtx kernel driver Nov 08 03:27:01 DocScrutinizer: its risk evaluation Nov 08 03:27:10 not even publish voltage of their batteries, as that makes it easier to build clones Nov 08 03:27:12 DocScrutinizer, but doing that costs money. Nov 08 03:27:16 DocScrutinizer: only reason is ... lawyer told them to. Nov 08 03:27:16 DocScrutinizer: there are a lot of stupid people in this world. Nov 08 03:27:29 DocScrutinizer: what is the likelihood of it going wrong Nov 08 03:27:35 what is the possible financial consequence Nov 08 03:27:38 raster: exactly, and Nokia is too incompetent to do that risk evaluation properly Nov 08 03:27:53 financial consequence of the blown up plane could cost 100's of millions of $ Nov 08 03:28:10 as they have NFC what's the likelihood of something going wrong with charging Nov 08 03:28:13 DocScrutinizer, exactly my point. but in this case "Nokia" means "middle to upper management" not "the Maemo/MeeGo devs" Nov 08 03:28:36 phb's :) Nov 08 03:28:44 financial consequence of a device not being able to boot an needing to "fix it" - much less. Nov 08 03:28:57 so *those* are the people you need to convince, not the people hanging out here on IRC or in the mailing lists Nov 08 03:29:05 DocScrutinizer: but.. in this case Nov 08 03:29:08 it's nokia's risk Nov 08 03:29:11 they evaluate their risk Nov 08 03:29:19 Sadly none of the people who need convincing are ever available. Nov 08 03:29:27 its their arses on the line Nov 08 03:29:28 * javispedro imagines few managementeria also understand why they should spend money into opening specs and/or doing proper risk evaluation when closing stuff is so easy and cheap Nov 08 03:29:29 not yours Nov 08 03:29:36 so what a fuckedup management is there to make butchers decide about risk of a space travel, without asking their rocket engineer neighbours? Nov 08 03:29:43 your chocie could be to simply not buy nokia products Nov 08 03:29:54 as you believe their dont give you the freedom you want from your products Nov 08 03:30:03 javispedro, and when it's the thing they've been doing for years. it's not just cheap, it's well understood. which is possibly even more important Nov 08 03:30:05 their risk evaluations are not in line with your expectations Nov 08 03:31:16 raster, there you go again with your logic. :P Nov 08 03:31:24 hahaha Nov 08 03:32:12 It's depressing that there still isn't a better alternative to Nokia. Nov 08 03:32:23 Which means we'll just keep coming back for more abuse again and again. Nov 08 03:32:34 bbl Nov 08 03:32:40 GeneralAntilles: alternative for what? Nov 08 03:32:48 raster: nonsense, my expectations are just "Nokia doesn't support meego" - and I'm not arguing here to convince anybody in charge to decide, I just want to prove that point, as there's NO SUPPORT of Nokia the way they once promised would come from them Nov 08 03:32:53 name your poison Nov 08 03:32:55 A mobile Linux platform that doesn't suck and isn't inherently evil. Nov 08 03:33:01 (completely suck) Nov 08 03:33:14 well... platform... Nov 08 03:33:27 GeneralAntilles: aaaah. so basically u dont like android? Nov 08 03:33:27 I'd think Meego has the platform part covered. Nov 08 03:33:36 now, the devices part.. Nov 08 03:33:39 javispedro: qt. meh. Nov 08 03:33:46 :) Nov 08 03:33:51 (totally personal opinion) Nov 08 03:33:51 raster: Google's business is based in advertising. Nov 08 03:33:58 GeneralAntilles: i know :) Nov 08 03:34:12 Which means they're interested in prying into your information Nov 08 03:34:18 GeneralAntilles: i'll just suggest you wait and save your pennies then. Nov 08 03:34:19 raster: as long as they keep x11, I'm happy Nov 08 03:34:21 and means that their motivations are more soiled than most. Nov 08 03:34:22 * javispedro boos at wayland. Nov 08 03:34:24 GeneralAntilles: where are u? us? europe? Nov 08 03:34:27 US Nov 08 03:34:34 hmm Nov 08 03:34:44 ok. lets see then :) Nov 08 03:35:12 GeneralAntilles: but... what iw as getting at is.. u dont like android.. right? Nov 08 03:35:19 u want something regular-linux like Nov 08 03:35:51 glibc, dbus, x11, wm;s, composite mnagers, toolkits, c/c++ or whatevrr lang as long as u can compile it (and if u support c/c++ thats a no-brainer) Nov 08 03:35:52 ? Nov 08 03:35:52 Google is fundamentally incompatible with me. Nov 08 03:36:11 There's no alternative to Maemo/MeeGo that is both usable and non-evil. Nov 08 03:36:41 none that.. you know of... yet :) Nov 08 03:37:01 wait, raster was it you I was talking to the other day in #meego? Nov 08 03:37:10 raster: GeneralAntilles is a kbd-lover afaik Nov 08 03:37:11 as for alternatives.. oh they do exist. much more usable than maemo or meego at this stage. Nov 08 03:37:26 in other words you know of another one but you're not willing to share it with GeneralAntilles, raster? Nov 08 03:37:30 and gasp... at least slated to all be open. Nov 08 03:37:44 just haasnt gotten its public announce yet. i'm just strategically leaking :) Nov 08 03:37:44 raster: webos? Nov 08 03:37:48 Vaporphone 3.4? Nov 08 03:37:58 b-man`: not "regular linux" Nov 08 03:38:11 its in the "hey lets just create out own ui system" camp Nov 08 03:38:15 it's nearly the nearest to "regular linux" I know from all other phone platforms Nov 08 03:38:18 I thought webos was getting cannibalised Nov 08 03:38:19 raster: not more super-expensive niche crap from those Hildon guys is it? Nov 08 03:38:33 holdon guys? Nov 08 03:38:35 hildon? Nov 08 03:38:42 What the hell was the name of that thing? Nov 08 03:38:50 Houldron guys! Nov 08 03:39:20 raster: awww, c'mon, name any platform, we want to flame! Nov 08 03:39:29 Somebody must remember that $800 netbook that those ex-Nokia guys developed last year. Nov 08 03:39:35 hehe Nov 08 03:39:49 the platform is easy to tell: Samsung Nov 08 03:39:59 * javispedro falls off the chair Nov 08 03:40:13 javispedro: i'm here in korea. seoul. samsung. i am a principal eningeerin in the mobile platform group. Nov 08 03:40:16 Bada bing, bada boom! Nov 08 03:40:25 we have our own linux os Nov 08 03:40:26 NNNOOOOO Nov 08 03:40:28 not bada Nov 08 03:40:31 bada != linux Nov 08 03:40:35 rofl Nov 08 03:40:41 totally different group Nov 08 03:40:49 bada is just a hickup Nov 08 03:40:55 yetanothermobilelinux Nov 08 03:40:59 is exactly what we need. Nov 08 03:41:03 its actually debian Nov 08 03:41:07 GeneralAntilles: well, you asked for it! Nov 08 03:41:14 javispedro: evidently. Nov 08 03:41:25 either way... Nov 08 03:41:37 raster: non-existant phone platforms are not enough! cannot flame!!!! Nov 08 03:41:37 raster, completely open you say? Nov 08 03:41:44 Nokia demonstrated fairly well why just ripping a desktop distro straight isn't a good plan for mobile usage. Nov 08 03:41:48 and yes - when meego requires that the platform iq qt based, you do need another mobile linux Nov 08 03:41:53 Termana: yes. Nov 08 03:42:05 raster, so an N900 port would be possible Nov 08 03:42:08 GeneralAntilles, not really. they mostly demonstrated how to take the worst of both worlds Nov 08 03:42:15 Termana: only stuff that we cant control (3rd party software like imgtec opengles libs) is closed Nov 08 03:42:26 johnx, well, yeah. Nov 08 03:42:29 Termana: no, as we lack specs for N900 Nov 08 03:42:32 Termana: sure. if you want to do that Nov 08 03:42:35 johnx: Deblet demonstrated, then. :P Nov 08 03:42:43 tho frankly... our hw is better :) Nov 08 03:42:50 raster, ;) Nov 08 03:42:53 raster: I'd sure as hell hope so. Nov 08 03:43:16 GeneralAntilles, I think the lesson there was how much of a PITA it is to maintain a de-facto distro fork even if you try to minimize differences Nov 08 03:43:23 if nokia release some omap4 thing.. then nokia will have an upper hand Nov 08 03:43:26 but until then... Nov 08 03:43:27 :) Nov 08 03:43:33 raster: that would really be a sad case if 2 years later the hw wouldn't be better Nov 08 03:43:37 also the gl drivers we have are signficantly better Nov 08 03:43:44 so compositing and rendering is so much smoother:) Nov 08 03:44:17 raster: good for you, get back to us when it's actually a "thing". Nov 08 03:44:22 DocScrutinizer: well not 2 years. n900 came out end of last year Nov 08 03:44:32 Using tech from early 2009. Nov 08 03:44:37 as such our hw is already out - galaxy-s sclass is what we are playing with Nov 08 03:44:47 with quite some delay I'd hope Samsung was able to avoid Nov 08 03:44:47 like any large company we of course have better in-house prototypes Nov 08 03:44:54 but production-level hw is galax-ys grade Nov 08 03:44:59 and that does run rings around the n900 Nov 08 03:45:49 anyway - nokia decided to totally change mobile os strategy Nov 08 03:46:00 we were moving towards maemo long ago Nov 08 03:46:10 to help reduce massive differences in os base Nov 08 03:46:17 but we're not moving ot meego Nov 08 03:46:24 yet another pkg format change Nov 08 03:46:33 hehe Nov 08 03:46:38 and its "qt all the way" then which frankly isnt going to work for us. Nov 08 03:47:02 so nokia has kind of made joining in the meego stuff an impossibility for us Nov 08 03:47:12 either way - we are involved with linaro Nov 08 03:47:19 which is much more our style Nov 08 03:47:42 but Linaro is nothing Nov 08 03:47:52 not to mention that their fathers tend to also love Qt... Nov 08 03:47:55 its just ubuntu for arm Nov 08 03:48:04 ? Nov 08 03:48:07 fathers? Nov 08 03:48:10 Canonical Nov 08 03:48:14 Shuttlework Nov 08 03:48:16 etc. Nov 08 03:48:18 love qt? Nov 08 03:48:20 news to me Nov 08 03:48:39 err.. *Shuttleworth. Nov 08 03:48:40 * DocScrutinizer burps Nov 08 03:48:45 What the hell was the name of that thing? <--- Aava mobile? :) Nov 08 03:48:55 raster: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/14/1245204 Nov 08 03:48:55 hatake_kakashi: way before that. Nov 08 03:49:14 GeneralAntilles, nfi Nov 08 03:49:42 ja 2008... qt based gnome? ahhahaha Nov 08 03:49:49 raster, no thumb2 I hope Nov 08 03:50:03 ands... since july 2008... how much of that has happened? Nov 08 03:50:25 that is an off the wall quote based on no reality there :) (by mark) Nov 08 03:50:30 nothing, but he keeps talking about it Nov 08 03:51:09 not too often Nov 08 03:51:14 http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2010/10/20/ubuntu-and-qt/ Nov 08 03:54:55 aah Nov 08 03:55:16 GeneralAntilles: suddently I remembered about a "hildon laptop". but wasn't that just for the fun? I do not remember they wanted to sell it. Nov 08 03:55:30 *suddenly. Nov 08 03:55:34 the same thing as asking the kernel guys to rewrite the kernel in c++ :) Nov 08 03:55:36 not going to happen Nov 08 03:55:37 :) Nov 08 03:55:37 javispedro: I recall it being sold. Nov 08 03:55:39 But dunno. Nov 08 03:55:45 or not rewrite Nov 08 03:55:52 but import large blobs of c++ in Nov 08 03:55:57 raster: nokia did Nov 08 03:56:10 linux kernel? Nov 08 03:56:27 raster: worse, rest of operating system :) Nov 08 03:56:40 that wasnt my point Nov 08 03:56:57 my point is - "base gnome on qt" is like saying "lets base linux kernel on c++" Nov 08 03:57:01 u can say wht u like Nov 08 03:57:05 u can be mark shuttleworth Nov 08 03:57:07 or any pundit Nov 08 03:57:11 it wont happen Nov 08 03:57:17 you're pushing poo uphill Nov 08 03:57:38 so, Nokia said "lets base Maemo on qt" which was like saying "lets base Hildon on qt" which is like saying "lets base Gnome on qt" Nov 08 03:57:53 of course the result is yet to be seen. Nov 08 03:58:29 no it isnt Nov 08 03:58:43 it is -- smaller scale, less employees, less LoCs. Nov 08 03:59:14 "lets base maemo on qt" is like canonical saying " our default will now be the kubuntu load, not the gnome-based ubuntu one. we're just swapping names. kubuntu -> ubuntu, ubuntu->gubuntu" Nov 08 03:59:21 bingo. Nov 08 03:59:43 of course, they have to manage to make kubuntu reasonably similar to existing ubuntu. Nov 08 03:59:43 but thats not what mark said Nov 08 03:59:52 he said make GNOME qt based Nov 08 03:59:54 not ubuntu Nov 08 03:59:56 GNOME Nov 08 03:59:59 it's not what Nokia said either. Nov 08 04:00:02 very big difference Nov 08 04:00:06 marketing guy speaking! Nov 08 04:02:03 shuttleworth was not playing marketing speak Nov 08 04:02:24 if he was he'd just say "make ubuntu more qt based" Nov 08 04:02:30 as you want to push your own brand Nov 08 04:03:36 Termana: sorry umm.. thumb2? Nov 08 04:03:39 no thumb2? Nov 08 04:04:10 GeneralAntilles: aha, found what I was thinking about: http://lucasr.org/2007/02/09/hildon-desktop-scalability/ Nov 08 04:04:14 asking if it is or isnt supported? Nov 08 04:04:14 raster, I hope it's not being compiled with thumb2 is what I meant (like Ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10) Nov 08 04:04:29 oh no Nov 08 04:04:32 javispedro: nope, later than that. Nov 08 04:04:42 samsung are performance freaks Nov 08 04:04:52 they have entire teams who focus to try and get 5% speedups Nov 08 04:04:56 javispedro: 2008 three Hildon guys left Nokia to form their own startup. Nov 08 04:05:11 entire design decisions are made for 10% speedups :) Nov 08 04:05:24 they ended up releasing a pricey Linux/GTK-based netbook targeted at very average users. Nov 08 04:05:31 Nettl or something Nov 08 04:05:51 raster, because the N900 has buggy thumb2 AFAIK, although there is a kernel workaround that is suppose to fix it but slows it down - but then a port wouldn't really work that well if it was all compiled with thumb2 Nov 08 04:05:59 ah, by the time Gtk->Qt migration started to sink down Nov 08 04:05:59 GeneralAntilles: i heard they left for some startup Nov 08 04:06:03 i never heard of it again :) Nov 08 04:06:14 raster: they posted a product page at some point. Nov 08 04:06:23 $800 or $900 USD Nov 08 04:06:35 Looked interesting, but way pricey for an Atom-based device. Nov 08 04:06:48 GeneralAntilles: never saw/heard of it Nov 08 04:07:00 did they survive? die? where? Nov 08 04:07:03 what company? Nov 08 04:07:16 Can't remember Nov 08 04:07:24 I wish I could come up with the name Nov 08 04:07:28 Had an article on digg. Nov 08 04:07:31 google comes up with nothing i can see Nov 08 04:07:37 Google's hiding it. Nov 08 04:07:54 There was a bunch of furor about them leaving Nokia Nov 08 04:07:59 yeah Nov 08 04:08:00 everybody thought it meant Maemo's ship was sinking. Nov 08 04:08:01 i rememebr that Nov 08 04:08:19 and it was. Nov 08 04:08:48 ah, tmoers already realizing Meego might never be "fast"! Nov 08 04:09:01 ah no, false alarm. there's still enough hype seems. Nov 08 04:09:39 let's see Nov 08 04:09:42 javispedro: should move to crush all hope ;) Nov 08 04:10:05 i hope meego doesnt stumble badly and end up a horrible os Nov 08 04:10:27 i like to have some friendly competition that takes some effort to beat :) Nov 08 04:10:44 javispedro, I think it would help if OMAP3 DVFS was pushed mainline quicker :p Nov 08 04:11:46 and it would also if imgtec started taking the way we composite seriously Nov 08 04:11:50 help. Nov 08 04:12:02 Hmm, need another CF for Dublin. Nov 08 04:12:12 There's no way I'm offloading an 8GB card onto an 8GB netbook. Nov 08 04:12:25 javispedro: what do u mean? Nov 08 04:12:49 h-d takes a weird way to compositing Nov 08 04:12:55 iPhone: apps are given a fbo Nov 08 04:13:01 WebOS: no compositing Nov 08 04:13:07 Android: nfi atm Nov 08 04:13:18 h-d: Nokia's X11_to_texture extension Nov 08 04:13:25 what is "weird way" Nov 08 04:13:30 err Nov 08 04:13:35 thats standard x compositing Nov 08 04:13:38 it is the common way in desktop Nov 08 04:13:41 that is why I like it. Nov 08 04:13:44 with pixmap->texture extn Nov 08 04:13:50 as best i know Nov 08 04:13:52 ours is Nov 08 04:14:05 we even have done some goodies to remove all sorts of copies in the pipeline Nov 08 04:14:17 maemo is the only platform that does anything similar. then again it is also the only platform that does x11. Nov 08 04:14:36 well not the only Nov 08 04:14:46 openmoko did x11 Nov 08 04:14:47 but the iphone way seems "more natural" to a resource limited platform. Nov 08 04:15:03 how is an fbo different to a window with a pixmap? Nov 08 04:15:05 composited? Nov 08 04:15:10 its the same thing Nov 08 04:15:22 UNLESS u are talking of gl using clients Nov 08 04:15:31 and forcing a client to render to a backbuffer Nov 08 04:15:35 and copy to the frontbuffer Nov 08 04:15:38 which is the pixmap Nov 08 04:15:39 javispedro, aren't you suppose to be linking this to your original statement of imgtec and how they are effecting how we composite? Nov 08 04:15:44 whihc is then in turn composited again? Nov 08 04:15:50 raster, openmoko Nov 08 04:15:52 HA Nov 08 04:15:53 :p Nov 08 04:16:01 lmao. RED is awesome Nov 08 04:16:03 it's funny Nov 08 04:16:12 Termana: still was an os and still used x11 :) Nov 08 04:16:16 maemo isnt the only one Nov 08 04:16:30 actually samsung did some ooold phones in combo with mizi research Nov 08 04:16:35 raster, right, though there was no GLES Nov 08 04:16:39 only found them in kr/cn but they were x11 too Nov 08 04:16:51 many years back Nov 08 04:16:58 no no gles Nov 08 04:16:59 yes Nov 08 04:17:23 but what is weird about forcing rendering to a window to be redirected to a pixmap (which is an fbo for all intents and purposes) Nov 08 04:17:45 Termana: a) we composite in a weird way b ) their weird suggestions like copying!!! instead of swapping in compositor Nov 08 04:18:07 which to an outsider appear would be destined to cripple the platform Nov 08 04:18:12 but they're the experts, I guess. Nov 08 04:18:34 oh trust me Nov 08 04:18:42 maemos compositor is definitely sub-par Nov 08 04:18:51 along with the gl-es drivers/libs Nov 08 04:18:51 because of imgtec. Nov 08 04:19:00 done right u have a zero-copy swap for gl clients Nov 08 04:19:14 and z aero-copy swap for frontbuffer (triple buffered) in the compositor Nov 08 04:19:16 raster: imgtec says "maemo's way" is best one in their benchmarks Nov 08 04:19:20 raster: yes, even with copying. Nov 08 04:19:21 and imgtec dont stop that from happening Nov 08 04:19:26 haha Nov 08 04:19:30 imgtec says many things Nov 08 04:19:34 imgtec isnt always right Nov 08 04:19:45 i had a long argument with them a few months back Nov 08 04:19:55 they insisted my proposal would be horrible and slow Nov 08 04:20:00 and it shouldnt be done Nov 08 04:20:03 copying was better Nov 08 04:20:32 guess who is the more stubborn out of me and imgtec.. and guess who finalyl got it implemented.. and tested it... and got a nice 3.5x speedup as a result :) Nov 08 04:20:45 if they do not care about your platform, you're gonna repeat same missteps Maemo did. Nov 08 04:20:46 does yours have tearing? Nov 08 04:20:53 ;) Nov 08 04:21:49 javispedro: nah. we have stubborn pricks like me to fix that :) we have the src. we can add what we need/want. Nov 08 04:21:52 wmarone: none. Nov 08 04:22:23 wmarone: frontbuffer is actually vsync swapped - triple buffered. so a swap is just that - swap a pointer value for fb location Nov 08 04:22:29 and clients are also swapped Nov 08 04:22:33 and synced to compositor Nov 08 04:23:12 (if they are gl they also do a literal swap, if they are not they draw to their pixmap as usual, but they can talk a sync protocol to avoid partially-rendered screen content) Nov 08 04:23:56 wmarone: note that on Maemo a lot of the tearing and general sluggishness comes from gtk+ apps themselves Nov 08 04:24:07 wmarone: you can check this by killing hildon-desktop Nov 08 04:24:15 pump your fists in the air, everybody! i can now build ettercap as a maemo package Nov 08 04:24:21 and soon you shall have it too Nov 08 04:25:06 javispedro: actually its both Nov 08 04:25:16 raster: yes Nov 08 04:25:16 javispedro: compositoe just dumbly copies regions from back to front buffer Nov 08 04:25:19 with no vsync Nov 08 04:25:33 so no matter what gtk did - that'd walways be a problem Nov 08 04:25:45 in addition last i checked gtk had no sync protol support for a compositor Nov 08 04:25:51 for ex. opera has virtually no tearing (pure Xlib app) Nov 08 04:25:58 in fact only compositor i know that has that kind of thing is e17's Nov 08 04:26:41 both e17 and efl talk a sync protcol so clients will send special "dont with kmy frame" renderings to allow comp to defer update until then Nov 08 04:26:45 * javispedro knew e17 was going to appear soonar or latter in the scene Nov 08 04:26:59 then comp will "lock' the window while it uses the pixmap as src for compositing Nov 08 04:27:16 so pixmap keeps same src content Nov 08 04:28:06 raster, what do you think of the new ones for MeeGo/N900 that were for Harmattan? (They are suppose to implement vsync) better? Nov 08 04:28:31 i havent seen tyhem personalyl Nov 08 04:28:36 so cant comment Nov 08 04:28:45 they may be better Nov 08 04:28:46 dont know Nov 08 04:28:54 Termana: also, Qt. Nov 08 04:29:24 gtk's rendering model is an old one Nov 08 04:29:34 just draw whatever bits changed in the window Nov 08 04:29:37 thats kind of fine Nov 08 04:29:53 as it really cut copies down Nov 08 04:30:00 u draw driect to the window Nov 08 04:30:06 javispedro, right there is the toolkit change, but I was more interested on his thoughts on the drivers themselves compared to the ones in Maemo Nov 08 04:30:12 then gtk got the "draw regions to a pixmap then copy that onto the window" code Nov 08 04:30:24 but this means some reagons may be copies while others are still being prepared Nov 08 04:30:37 but compositor gets "damage" event for the partialupdates already Nov 08 04:30:40 thus u get a redraw Nov 08 04:30:53 its a simple matter of waiting for comp to finish with your window Nov 08 04:31:05 and sending a "i'm done drawing to it now" message to get rid of that Nov 08 04:31:21 Termana: afaiu you should be able to do proper vsync with current postpr1.2 drivers Nov 08 04:31:23 compositor itself of course needs to mvoeto full buffer swaps Nov 08 04:31:29 and driver needs to alsosupport this with vsync Nov 08 04:31:36 Termana: as long as you do not use h-d Nov 08 04:31:40 and u'd need triple buffering to avoid stalls Nov 08 04:31:45 (well avoid them more) Nov 08 04:34:04 ooooh Nov 08 04:34:07 god. Nov 08 04:35:12 I hate it when I start to get results in a hacking session just minutes before bedtime Nov 08 04:36:16 sleep is for the weak (or the weekend) Nov 08 04:38:52 hello i'm getting soon the nokia n900 can youn tell me if there is a good market app for maemo yet at the level of the other majors ? Nov 08 04:39:13 hm Nov 08 04:39:26 Nooooooooooooooooooooo Nov 08 04:39:27 no Nov 08 04:39:28 heh Nov 08 04:39:38 VOA: there is not.. there is the ovi store but it sucks Nov 08 04:39:49 VOA, there's a pretty decent application manager, which does mostly the same as the market apps. Nov 08 04:39:58 so if we want to buy apps for the n900 we must use the ovi right? Nov 08 04:40:06 you can see the available applications in advance at http://maemo.org/downloads/ Nov 08 04:40:19 yeah. if you want paid apps it's pretty much ovi or nothing Nov 08 04:40:27 free apps can be found at ovi.com or http://maemo.org/downloads/ Nov 08 04:40:27 and ovi is mostly nothing... Nov 08 04:40:27 is that the application manager jhonx? Nov 08 04:41:00 the application manager can pull from multiple "repositories" Nov 08 04:41:07 so http://maemo.org/downloads/ is one and the ovi store is another Nov 08 04:41:52 VOA: if you want to pay, use ovi Nov 08 04:42:01 if u want free, just use the app manager Nov 08 04:42:05 both come on your n900 Nov 08 04:43:27 thaks people as my primary use will be afther web gps is the ovi gps and world wide maps free? Nov 08 04:43:50 VOA: in case noone told you, the mobile app selection on Maemo is nowhere near the number of Android or iPhone. it's a Linux computer in your pocket with a phone wired on top Nov 08 04:44:32 * javispedro notes that VOA has currently mentioned two usually bleak topics of the N900 Nov 08 04:44:41 well i all ready got 32 gb ipod touch so for apps i'm ok i just get n900 for internet tab quality pen testing and for gps Nov 08 04:44:46 VOA, yeah. maps is included, but it's *not* the same program as the one for symbian Nov 08 04:44:53 app store = impressive free catalog, lacking paid catalog Nov 08 04:45:12 I actually use google maps on it in the browser and have liked that just fine Nov 08 04:45:14 gps = useless -- unless sygic and/or free maps are good enough for you. Nov 08 04:45:21 well as long the gps works good and the world wide maps are free dosen't matter if it's ovi or not Nov 08 04:45:38 VOA: ovi doesn't do voice routing nor autonavigation Nov 08 04:45:55 so what will we use for gps software on n900 ? Nov 08 04:46:23 VOA: commercial, downloadable maps there's only sygic. Nov 08 04:46:44 then you have the web stuff -- google maps in the browser, which I never tried, but I'm sure also doesn't do voice. Nov 08 04:46:59 ill check it out a other question when new realise of maemo comes out we have free autopdate of the Os with n900? Nov 08 04:47:01 and the osm stuff. Nov 08 04:47:21 aha! Nov 08 04:47:25 VOA strikes another bleak topic. Nov 08 04:47:30 heh Nov 08 04:47:50 VOA, there probably won't be major updates to maemo Nov 08 04:47:55 well i want to make sure it has all i need as it cost alott of money :) Nov 08 04:47:57 VOA: why don't you ask about the geek stuff so that we can try to convince you? =) Nov 08 04:48:09 for ex. Nov 08 04:48:13 nokia is working on meego now, and there's a "not officially supported" port of meego to the N900 under way Nov 08 04:48:13 it has excellent irc client. Nov 08 04:48:19 VOA: a lot of money? its cheap. Nov 08 04:48:26 like $400-$500 Nov 08 04:48:35 raster, cost is relative. kthx Nov 08 04:48:39 i am in Europe and here cost around 400 euro Nov 08 04:48:40 raster: your definition of cheap is nowhere near mine. Nov 08 04:49:00 javispedro: in the real of smartphones.. its cheap Nov 08 04:49:04 so to be pricise when maemo 6 will come out we can't update to latest os or yes? Nov 08 04:49:11 most will cost $500-$600 Nov 08 04:49:21 n900 is on the lower end of the scale for sure Nov 08 04:49:36 VOA: there will be no maemo 6 Nov 08 04:49:39 VOA, maemo 6 will be for the next device. Nokia won't provide maemo 6 for the N900 Nov 08 04:49:42 there will only be meego Nov 08 04:50:03 raster: (meego vs maemo6) long story... Nov 08 04:50:05 yeah, what raster said is correct...it's uhm...kinda complicated Nov 08 04:50:09 javispedro: hehhehee Nov 08 04:50:16 johnx++ Nov 08 04:50:21 yeah Nov 08 04:50:31 and meego for the n900 is.. well.. a topic on its own Nov 08 04:50:40 not going to go into that Nov 08 04:50:44 indeed. Nov 08 04:50:46 long story Nov 08 04:51:16 this will get more confusing when harmattan is finally released and someone "correctly" deduces they always wanted to run harmattan on n900 instead of meego. Nov 08 04:51:22 i see so basicaly it will remain a maemo 5 os based smartphone ? Nov 08 04:51:43 VOA, yes. but there will be an unofficial port of meego which is under way Nov 08 04:51:45 VOA: describe how will you use the device? Nov 08 04:52:12 gps internet plus video mp3 pics Nov 08 04:52:20 but the version of meego that will be for the N900's successor won't run directly on the N900. Instead there is a community version of meego being worked on for the N900 Nov 08 04:52:27 and pen testing Nov 08 04:52:32 VOA, you'll probably love it Nov 08 04:52:33 and few other stuff Nov 08 04:52:38 gps - bad. internet - excellent. video -- excellent. mp3 -- if battery life is enough for you -- excellent. Nov 08 04:52:58 well, so make it mp3 -- good :) Nov 08 04:53:07 so if i am seeking specificaly gps you advise me the nokia navigator 2 option? Nov 08 04:53:08 to be fair, it's not so great for in-car GPS, but the GPS chip with AGPS is pretty good, in my experience Nov 08 04:53:14 as gps is what i need most Nov 08 04:53:20 and google maps is fantastic on it, but has no voice directions Nov 08 04:53:23 i am walking no car Nov 08 04:53:44 javispedro, are you talking about the GPS apps or the GPS reception itself? Nov 08 04:53:44 and need a voice guide is that possible to achive ? Nov 08 04:53:51 johnx: apps Nov 08 04:54:09 ok, I'll agree. the gps apps are kinda lame. I never tried sygic Nov 08 04:54:17 might be worth finding a review of it somewhere Nov 08 04:54:19 VOA: johnx: gps reception is fine, it's software that is ... not up to the level a commercial users expects. Nov 08 04:54:56 yup. can agree with that, though I'm happy with google maps for the most part Nov 08 04:55:22 what about the nokia navigator i will pay much less you advise me it ? Nov 08 04:55:24 but I think the options for a "real" GPS app are pretty much: sygic Nov 08 04:55:48 johnx: OSM "migth" be alternative depending on country. for ex. on spain it isn't currently. Nov 08 04:55:49 sorry, but what is nokia navigator? Nov 08 04:55:50 as that is my 2 option but i don't like it's symbian but if it does update to meego will be good as that phone as all Nov 08 04:56:01 ah, so you're looking for Nokia phones. Nov 08 04:56:09 ah, hardware Nov 08 04:56:10 it's a model from nokia made for gps Nov 08 04:56:31 a lot of #maemo people hate symbian, and I at least personally hate every. other. single. non. Maemo. Nokia. phone. ever. made. Nov 08 04:56:38 yeah, I thought you meant a maemo app :) Nov 08 04:56:39 no i am looking for a good gps in a smarthphone but i like the n900 couse you can use it for pen testing also Nov 08 04:57:07 as a rule of thumb: don't expect meego to show up on any existing phone in a perfectly working end-user ready form Nov 08 04:57:44 the only existing phone that is actually somewhat likely to have meego working is the N900 Nov 08 04:57:54 well i am looking at this sygic seems to work great has voice guide for us walking gps users Nov 08 04:58:02 so i might go with n900 Nov 08 04:58:14 why you say it's not so good as commercial gps aps? Nov 08 04:58:22 because.. .there's only one =) Nov 08 04:58:37 if it's ok for you... for the better, welcome to the club. but ensure you check it out first. Nov 08 04:58:48 javispedro: wait, excellent IRC client?? which? all i found sucked more or less. Nov 08 04:59:09 chx: and you didn't port your favourite irc client to the n900 yet? Nov 08 04:59:12 so if i understood correct maemo will become meego soon ? Nov 08 04:59:27 javispedro: porting is not enough, the problem is that zooming is per app Nov 08 04:59:33 VOA, mostly yes. or more accurately. maemo will die, and meego will be the future Nov 08 04:59:43 javispedro: it'd be better if zooming would be a feature of the system somehow Nov 08 04:59:49 chx: "zooming"? Nov 08 04:59:51 so we will see meego on n900 that will be cool Nov 08 04:59:54 javispedro: ie. i can't find a gooddamn irc client which can zoom Nov 08 04:59:56 javispedro: yes Nov 08 05:00:05 javispedro, chx, xchat on the N900 is far better than anything else on any other platform Nov 08 05:00:06 sounds like something trivial to hack on xchat. Nov 08 05:00:11 Termana++ Nov 08 05:00:16 javispedro: with a fixed font either too little text on screen or can't read it , so small. Nov 08 05:00:33 chx, increase font size? Nov 08 05:00:34 did anyone did try installing backtrack for pen testing hacking on the n900 yet? Nov 08 05:00:36 I am dreaming of a Firefox-like zoomer. Nov 08 05:00:43 how does it work as ethickal hacker device? Nov 08 05:00:44 tap, zoom. Nov 08 05:01:04 VOA: it works too awesome :) someone is porting firesheep too. Nov 08 05:01:18 what is that for? Nov 08 05:01:30 get ready to be fleeced Nov 08 05:02:08 hi hatake_kakashi was reading your reviews before Nov 08 05:02:15 how you doing? Nov 08 05:02:17 -_-. Nov 08 05:02:26 yeah alright I guess, yourself? Nov 08 05:03:08 very well now in my country you can get the n900 half price with 3 Nov 08 05:03:31 no better time to get n900 ;) Nov 08 05:03:36 i basicaly give an account then must buy every month 10 euro of recharge and if i stay 24 months with em the pay the last part of it Nov 08 05:03:49 yes i'm think to get it for xmas you all ready have it? Nov 08 05:04:05 or you could save money up and buy it outright, slightly better than contracting imo Nov 08 05:04:13 yes I already do Nov 08 05:04:31 can i show you this option from 3 mobile ? Nov 08 05:04:51 wouldn't mean much to me lol Nov 08 05:04:56 as it looks convinient like this i pay it just 249 euro Nov 08 05:05:01 insted of 400 Nov 08 05:06:47 btw as i got ipod touch 32 gb all ready my question is if keep it or not for the apple apps that are n1 one now on market and have both what you advise? Nov 08 05:08:04 I suppose you can keep ipod touch for apps if you're not really linux savvy :) Nov 08 05:08:42 there are a fair few n900 owners here having qualms with n900's email client Nov 08 05:08:53 yes my idea was that even couse to sell app products eve if the as new you lose more then earn Nov 08 05:09:28 as an end user you shouldn't be worrying too much about that :) Nov 08 05:10:40 i'm upsett with apple as i got the ipod touch last xmas and now they all ready want you to buy the cam mic new one so if you follow apple you must buy a device every year basicaly this is good that n900 is long lasting Nov 08 05:11:34 then again, once you have properly experienced n900 you'll know what it is like Nov 08 05:11:47 the social network sucked Nov 08 05:11:50 lmao Nov 08 05:11:54 what a crappy movie Nov 08 05:12:13 what would you expect from a fad movie about a fad? Nov 08 05:13:39 VOA: device manufacturers make their living off selling you new devices. hell yeah they want you to buy new devices often. its how they put food in their mouths. Nov 08 05:13:53 yes expecially apple Nov 08 05:14:10 they make a part of software every year so you update like give you a mic but no cam etc Nov 08 05:14:50 or charging you to be able to transmit music to your FM tuner Nov 08 05:14:59 as a product Nov 08 05:16:02 so the usb can share files with all nokia phones or even non nokia as on apple unless we jailbreak we can't Nov 08 05:18:21 can share files: yes, can share files with all nokia phones: depending on the extension and which platform you are targeting Nov 08 05:18:44 so if we want to share with non nokia what we have to do and thanks for all the info Nov 08 05:19:29 depends on exactly what you want to share Nov 08 05:25:24 Is it possible to record fm radio input? Well I guess so, but with which program? Nov 08 05:31:45 so when you people think meego will come out and replace maemo? Nov 08 05:32:18 2011 Nov 08 05:32:19 april, though it won't ever replace it fully Nov 08 05:32:31 at least, not on existing devices Nov 08 05:34:20 will he very intrerstng can i use meego for the netbook yet try it ? Nov 08 05:34:44 yes Nov 08 05:34:57 the user interface has nothing in common with what's intended for the N900 though Nov 08 05:43:12 hostmode more dangerous than OC@900 - muhahahaha. Actually a good one, matan! Nov 08 05:48:10 splice was pretty stupid Nov 08 06:08:32 http://qole.blogspot.com/2010/11/running-meego-handset-in-n900-chroot.html Nov 08 06:08:38 has anybody tried that? Nov 08 06:28:21 so how much extra ram can you add to the n900? Nov 08 06:30:32 0 Nov 08 06:30:59 VOA: do you mean swap??? Nov 08 06:31:11 VOA: or memory card? Nov 08 06:35:54 memory added Nov 08 06:36:03 that you can add to the all ready 32 gb Nov 08 06:39:05 with microsd Nov 08 06:40:18 VOA: you cant add any ram Nov 08 06:40:23 you can add more flash storage Nov 08 06:40:26 via micro-sd Nov 08 06:40:38 you know how much? Nov 08 06:40:47 at me work 4 Gb Nov 08 06:40:51 however big your micro-sd is Nov 08 06:40:55 it does sdhc Nov 08 06:48:09 VOA: he built-in 32 GB storage is big enough to store up to 7,000 of your favourite songs or 40 hours of DVD-quality video. And with an external microSD card you can expand the storage to up to 48 GB. Nov 08 06:48:09 32 GB internal storage Nov 08 06:48:09 Expandable to up to 48 GB with an external microSD card Nov 08 06:48:46 i see no reason it shouldnt handle 32b micro-sd's Nov 08 06:48:50 now that they are out Nov 08 06:48:55 32gb Nov 08 06:48:59 48-32 = 16 Nov 08 06:49:15 i know Nov 08 06:49:30 no reason it shouldnt handle 32gb micro-sd's Nov 08 06:49:34 now that they are out Nov 08 06:49:52 it hasnt crossed over into sdxd land @ 32bg Nov 08 06:49:54 err 32gb Nov 08 06:49:58 err Nov 08 06:50:04 sdxc Nov 08 06:51:07 hmm, interesting Nov 08 06:51:14 the N900 is only $400 on newegg now Nov 08 06:51:20 ) Nov 08 06:51:28 Gorroth: see. i keep saying its cheap Nov 08 06:51:30 and people idsagree Nov 08 06:51:31 :) Nov 08 06:51:38 yeah, it's not terribly priced Nov 08 06:51:46 * VOA slaps VOA around a bit with a large trout Nov 08 06:51:48 thats actually pretty damned cheap Nov 08 06:52:05 most smartphones start at like $500->$600 wholesale Nov 08 06:52:08 to telcos Nov 08 06:52:14 yeah Nov 08 06:52:17 and retail ends up closer to $800->1000 Nov 08 06:52:32 i bought my N900 when it first came out. i think i got it for $500 because i preordered, but they were charging $550 for it Nov 08 06:52:46 the n900 is cheap but there are cheaper options for a tiny computer Nov 08 06:52:52 if you don't need the monitor Nov 08 06:52:57 most smartphones will come down in price 6-12months later Nov 08 06:53:01 but still Nov 08 06:53:05 $400 is a good deal Nov 08 06:53:15 true, but not one that you can fit in your pocket and do major hacking on... on your own phone or others, ol Nov 08 06:53:19 lol* Nov 08 06:53:26 kerio: theres always cheaper. each level of cheaper u lose something Nov 08 06:53:26 i buy $750 in russia $) Nov 08 06:53:27 lose screen Nov 08 06:53:32 lose 3g modem (go to 2g) Nov 08 06:53:35 or lose modem entirely Nov 08 06:53:36 lose bt Nov 08 06:53:37 lose wifi Nov 08 06:53:41 lose ram, lose flash Nov 08 06:53:42 ... Nov 08 06:53:50 lose ram? Nov 08 06:53:51 wtf Nov 08 06:53:59 u go from 256m to 128m Nov 08 06:54:02 for example Nov 08 06:54:04 what maemo needs is a good turn-by-turn map app though; ovi maps sucks on the n900 Nov 08 06:54:13 400$ is 4 sheevaplugs Nov 08 06:54:20 Gorroth: make one using osm street data Nov 08 06:54:20 guruplugs Nov 08 06:54:28 raster: i don't want to make one Nov 08 06:54:32 4*1.2GHz cpu, 4*512mb ram, 4 usb ports, 4 gigabit ports Nov 08 06:54:37 * slonopotamus yawns Nov 08 06:54:37 raster: i just use my nexus one for that Nov 08 06:54:45 kerio: but those have NOTHING in them except the cpu, some ram and storage Nov 08 06:54:48 pretty much Nov 08 06:54:50 or and wifi Nov 08 06:54:55 and gigabit Nov 08 06:54:59 don't forget teh gigabit Nov 08 06:55:01 no screen, no modem, no large built in flash.. no kbd..... :) Nov 08 06:55:01 and usb Nov 08 06:55:03 bah Nov 08 06:55:12 kerio: alternatively, $400 is a hell lot of icecream. Nov 08 06:55:20 but the n900 you can connect to a cellular network and do good or bad things with it >:) Nov 08 06:55:21 or a lot of bacon Nov 08 06:55:35 Gorroth: and thus the problem will persist Nov 08 06:55:41 because peoplpe just say they want/need an app Nov 08 06:55:45 and dont get up and DO it. :) Nov 08 06:55:59 raster: yeah, well, maybe nokia could get on it :) Nov 08 06:56:01 "There's an app for that. Compile it." Nov 08 06:56:13 raster: but the cost/benefit doesn't pay off for me to do it, because i have a nexus one Nov 08 06:56:19 :< Nov 08 06:56:23 you infidel Nov 08 06:56:37 i have been compiling and package software for the n900 lately though Nov 08 06:56:45 i added squid to extras-devel the other day Nov 08 06:56:51 with ssl bump and transparent proxy support Nov 08 06:57:02 and i'm about done with libnet-dev and ettercap Nov 08 06:57:30 (bit new to debian packaging; so, it takes me some guesswork sometimes to make it work) Nov 08 06:58:50 n900 work with aircrack-ng :) Nov 08 06:59:17 does kernel-power include all the modules necessary to setup a WAP? Nov 08 06:59:30 wap? Nov 08 06:59:40 wireless access point Nov 08 06:59:53 Gorroth: yup Nov 08 06:59:57 yes Nov 08 06:59:58 and there's an app for that! Nov 08 07:00:00 excellent Nov 08 07:00:14 yeah, i know there's an app, the "Mobile HotSpot" app? that looks like it sucks :) Nov 08 07:00:22 i was just going to setup some scripts Nov 08 07:00:53 but kernel-power is having problems on pr1.3 right now? Nov 08 07:01:09 no Nov 08 07:01:43 at me work fine Nov 08 07:02:00 okay, i'll try installing it soon Nov 08 07:11:13 Gorroth: maep is good Nov 08 07:11:51 Gorroth: i much prefer it to damn ovi maps Nov 08 07:12:38 Gorroth: faster and support for different map types from different servers Nov 08 07:13:21 Gorroth: it just need some new features like favorite places and routing Nov 08 07:18:06 ilius: thanks for the recommendation. i'll check it out, but i assume it doesn't do voice navigation either Nov 08 07:19:34 Gorroth: no Nov 08 07:20:01 Gorroth: its simple and clear Nov 08 07:21:24 okay, cool Nov 08 07:21:48 papuas: with kernel-power, it doesn't automatically overlock the n900 does it? i'm not interested in that particular feature Nov 08 07:22:07 nvermind Nov 08 07:22:17 i missed the very last sentence in the apt-cache show for it Nov 08 07:23:05 oh crap, I forgot the usb cable to my home, can't test that usb thingie now, aeergh... Nov 08 07:30:23 till-: ping Nov 08 07:42:58 how to see/set target (i386 or armel) in scratchbox? Nov 08 07:57:55 anyone else have an issue where the fm radio only works once, then you need to reboot? Nov 08 07:58:09 it used to work, i think it may have been the latest update Nov 08 08:02:29 ilius: sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ Nov 08 08:02:59 fakeroot sb-menu -> Install -> FREMANTLE_ARMEL -> check C-runtime and OK Nov 08 08:02:59 but in the next time, its still unchecked! where am i wrong? Nov 08 08:03:34 i can's install C-runtime then i can't compile anything for armel Nov 08 08:04:07 hmm, i don't know. i did the entire install from the command line Nov 08 08:04:16 as my dev machine is a debian VM on my mac Nov 08 08:04:57 i don't use the GUI tools at the moment, as i'm not developing a GUI; so, i can't help you with anything other than sb-conf and basic stuff liket hat Nov 08 08:06:21 i get this error during compile: Nov 08 08:06:21 configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. Nov 08 08:06:35 hmm, i don't know what that means; i never had problems setting it up Nov 08 08:06:43 did you follow all the instructions on the maemo sdk website? Nov 08 08:07:12 also, i live near NYC; i'm going to take part in that physical dead drops thing this weekend Nov 08 08:07:29 whiel i'm hopefully using the n900 for rascally stuff :) Nov 08 08:07:57 Gorroth: :) Nov 08 08:20:41 X-Fade: ping Nov 08 08:20:53 achipa: pong Nov 08 08:21:55 in there a good (and update) tutorial for maemo sdk? Nov 08 08:22:06 X-Fade: did you do any manual promotion-shuffle around PR1.3 regarding PyQt ? Some packages got promoted to extras, others not, so now it's wreaking havoc on people Nov 08 08:22:09 i am readig this http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/user-guide.html Nov 08 08:22:29 but some command does not exist in my scratchbox Nov 08 08:23:32 achipa: I need a list of affected apps. Nov 08 08:23:44 achipa: You were looking into something last time we spoke. Nov 08 08:23:51 X-Fade: about everything using PyQt Nov 08 08:23:54 X-Fade: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python2.5-qt4-dev/4.7.5-maemo1/ Nov 08 08:24:08 X-Fade: this got pulled into extras somehow Nov 08 08:24:24 X-Fade: (without the libs themselves) Nov 08 08:24:57 achipa: Hmm yeah, a build depend. Nov 08 08:25:19 (extras has 4.7.4 and that was ok, 4.7.5 was in extras-devel for a reason) Nov 08 08:26:22 soo... what do we do about it ? :) Nov 08 08:26:24 Sigh, I really, really need to get OBS working for Maemo. This repo stuff is getting out of hand :) Nov 08 08:27:22 (disclaimer: I will be uploading a whole new PyQt shortly, but it will take ~2 weeks to reach extras and fix the issue on it's own) Nov 08 08:27:31 ahh, managed to mount 8Gb usb memory (Kingston), but after a while, memory stick is automatically dismounted and syslog is filled with errors that FAT read failed..oh well, maybe that memory is bad... Nov 08 08:27:31 its Nov 08 08:27:44 achipa: Well we can push a new pyqt if that solves issues. Nov 08 08:27:47 ~thank Nov 08 08:27:47 sure thing, achipa Nov 08 08:28:41 X-Fade: the thing is I *would* like QA on it as it's (sp ?) a major update (QtQuick support, yadda yadda) Nov 08 08:29:18 Hmm, well how to fix it then? Nov 08 08:29:32 and it seems that N900 recognizes my EOS 400D, but in the syslog I get "ke_recv[1397]: device_added:2629: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_4a9_3110_noserial_if0 is not a storage or volume" arf...well time to try card reader.. Nov 08 08:29:59 X-Fade: is it too much fuss to remove the offending 4.7.5 parts from testing and prevent the -dev from getting dragged in ? Nov 08 08:30:22 (it's always too much fuss, I know, but is it WAY too much :) ) Nov 08 08:30:42 jvesiluoma, I don't think Canon's DSLRs show up as mass storage Nov 08 08:30:47 achipa: I can wipe them from testing and extras if that solves it? Nov 08 08:30:56 jvesiluoma, don't you need the Canon SDK/API to talk to those devices? Nov 08 08:31:40 jvesiluoma: how do you read it on linux usually? Nov 08 08:31:50 X-Fade: but wont the very next pyqt app promotion pull them in again ? Nov 08 08:31:56 achipa: But on the first promotion from -devel they would come back in. Nov 08 08:32:02 right Nov 08 08:32:11 SpeedEvil: usually I just use card reader, wich (btw) works Nov 08 08:32:31 google on how to read it onlinux Nov 08 08:32:34 So now I can make backup of my photos via card reader when I'm on holidays, hooray Nov 08 08:32:37 tehre is possiblyanapp Nov 08 08:32:42 gphoto - for example Nov 08 08:32:44 It would be nice for this Qt stuff to be compatible ... ;) Nov 08 08:33:13 SpeedEvil, you need the gphoto2 thingy AFAIK Nov 08 08:33:38 X-Fade: action plan - remove the offending ones, I upload PyQt 4.8, and if someone promote, he'll be testing with 4.8 and we'll live somehow until the rest of the packages arrive... is that a reasonable compromise ? Nov 08 08:34:57 jvesiluoma, if you wish to use the 400D from the N900, you'll have to port gphoto to Maemo. The 400D is supported in PTP mode (Picture Transfer Protocol) through gphoto2: http://www.gphoto.org/proj/libgphoto2/support.php Nov 08 08:35:22 crashanddie_: yeah, they don't usually show as mass storage drives, the method they use is PTP or something.. Nov 08 08:35:50 crashanddie_: okay, have to check that and see if it's easy to port it Nov 08 08:36:09 well, IIRC, Nikon allows you to select PTP or MSM Nov 08 08:36:15 X-Fade: there is also another issue that we could resolve in one go: forbid promotion of anything that depends on python2.5-qt4-* (due to HAM braindeadness I now have to suggest everyone to depend on the metapackage and pull in all packages) Nov 08 08:36:15 achipa: Or you could upload a new 4.7.5 revision and I push that all the way up to Extras? Nov 08 08:36:45 jvesiluoma: It should be a simple matter of compiling libusb and the command-line app Nov 08 08:36:55 jvesiluoma, gphoto usually to do nifty things such as timing shots and stuff like that. You could hack your own intervalometer and implement automated FTP/wifi uploads. Nov 08 08:36:57 jvesiluoma: the GUI will be a little more invoved. Nov 08 08:37:17 who needs gui, CLI for teh win ;) Nov 08 08:37:30 X-Fade: umm, that one has a few nasty upstream bugs as it was the first release that supported mobility, not that good at all (would have pushed to extras otherwise myself) Nov 08 08:38:14 achipa: Hmm it is never easy ;) Nov 08 08:38:19 crashanddie_: yup, that would be very nice, I think I'll have to make somekind of dev environment to my NAS, hehe Nov 08 08:39:17 crashanddie_: oh, and thanks for the link btw Nov 08 08:39:24 np Nov 08 08:39:44 I'm actually thinking about using the N900 for some quite advanced stuff, related to the openmoco.org project Nov 08 08:40:06 Such as using it to control a pan/tilt or dolly. Nov 08 08:40:26 the idea would be to make a 3D timelapse Nov 08 08:40:36 crashanddie_: you only need 'zoom and enhance' Nov 08 08:40:40 ahh, interesting Nov 08 08:42:06 Don't know if it really happens, but it would be relatively easi to control CAVE (Cave Automated Virtual Environment) system with N900 and use it to make selections in virtual environment etc... (and if anyone is interested, this is CAVE => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_Automatic_Virtual_Environment ) Nov 08 08:42:12 easi = easy Nov 08 08:43:28 achipa: Ok, then let me shoot all 4.7.5 versions. Nov 08 08:43:37 X-Fade: ok Nov 08 08:43:46 * crashanddie_ gives X-Fade a gun# Nov 08 08:45:57 how do i put iNES in full screen? Nov 08 08:47:11 Stskeeps: Once we got all this OBS setup sorted out, we might want to reserve some hardware in the future for bringing up other archs etc. Nov 08 08:47:29 Hmm -EWINDOW ;) Nov 08 09:24:28 damn, how come we still can't open .vsd or .vdx files under Linux? Nov 08 09:25:02 achipa, real hackers, like Spock, use the "compute" keyword Nov 08 09:41:32 i'm back in black Nov 08 09:45:06 Stskeeps: Just curious, but do you think you could promote bootmenu-n900 to extras-testing? It looks like it's been sitting in devel long enough... Nov 08 09:46:40 VOA, right Nov 08 09:53:51 Does the upcoming MeeGo support GTK+ app development? Nov 08 09:57:16 are we ready to rock here? Nov 08 10:19:09 Morning all Nov 08 10:19:31 * Khertan_ like the webchat captcha µ@v Nov 08 10:19:37 nice to enter :) Nov 08 10:30:25 khertan, you killed 3 people in a row? Nov 08 10:32:15 ...with his bicycle! Nov 08 10:32:21 Ok, I've got a question for you guys: I'm trying to run SSHD from a ramdisk, and I get the error "Privilege separation user sshd does not exist". What am I missing here, and where is it stored? Nov 08 10:34:19 adduser sshd ? Nov 08 10:36:06 Where does the information get stored? Nov 08 10:36:26 RobbieThe1st, /etc/passwd Nov 08 10:36:48 you probably need to do a proper install of sshd, though Nov 08 10:37:49 Well, I have a proper install on the rootfs. But I'm trying to copy the required files into a ramdisk for BackupMenu. I used ldd to get sshd's library requirements, but there are apparently other required bits also Nov 08 10:38:11 RobbieThe1st, the users need to be in both systems Nov 08 10:39:36 Erm, not entirely sure what you mean. I create my ramdisk at boot time by copying all the files I need from the source rootfs. Which means the systems should be "one and the same" provided all needed files are copied Nov 08 10:42:00 In this case, I -for whatever reason- had no need for /etc/passwd, so it wasn't copied. I'll try copying it and see if anything else is needed Nov 08 10:44:25 binding it is probably a better idea Nov 08 10:45:52 Will it still work once I chroot into the ramdisk and then unmount the rootfs? Nov 08 10:46:11 It seems like not... but I'm not entirely sure Nov 08 11:04:59 Does anyone know what files are required for password authentication for sshd? /etc/passwd- seems to have the encrypted root password in it... Nov 08 11:05:45 ~/.ssh/ has to be the right permissions, and have an authorised_keys file in it of the right form with the right permissions Nov 08 11:05:46 oh Nov 08 11:05:54 password Nov 08 11:06:02 look at /etc/sshd.config I think Nov 08 11:06:12 check root login is allowed Nov 08 11:06:21 and also check sshd is running of course Nov 08 11:08:41 Yea, I've got sshd running, and have copied /etc/passwd and /etc/passwd- (as root) to my ramdisk at bootup... I can get a SSH console over usb networking, but my root password doesn't work Nov 08 11:09:04 I have checked the password by trying "login root" as root from xterm, and it -does- let me login with that pass Nov 08 11:10:15 Does sshd(on the n900) directly interact with the passwd file, or is there some other tool it uses? Nov 08 11:10:25 oh Nov 08 11:10:29 Wrong channel, sorry. Nov 08 11:10:57 It seems close enough Nov 08 11:10:58 If you install the ssshd daemon and client from the repos - opensshd - it should 'just work' Nov 08 11:11:16 I've got -that- working, that's not an issue Nov 08 11:11:18 It should ask for a password when you install it Nov 08 11:11:22 for root Nov 08 11:11:26 then you can just ssh in Nov 08 11:11:40 'to my ramdisk' ? Nov 08 11:11:41 I'm trying to run it from my ramdisk-based chroot Nov 08 11:11:47 oh Nov 08 11:12:04 you are not running sshd on the base system then? Nov 08 11:12:53 Um... Yes and no. When bootmenu-n900 launches my program, it starts by copying a load of files including busybox and sshd and it's requirements into a ramdisk. Nov 08 11:13:40 I then chroot into that ramdisk, and launch sshd from there. any files that are copied should be the same as the host system(maemo on your rootfs), but I'm thinking this a case of missing some required file Nov 08 11:16:16 Basically, I'm working on a remote rescue shell that'll allow you to mess with the rootfs, optfs, SD and MyDocs to your heart's content. Nov 08 11:32:55 can I set up maemo on 'NokiaN810' ?| Nov 08 11:35:40 Has somebody been able to simulate the tapping of the Back button (e.g., Modest, upper right area, when it is not the close window invocation) via command or keyboard shortcut? Nov 08 11:35:44 hey how to change stanby clock background? Nov 08 11:36:02 djszapi, Maemo already is on a Nokia N810. Nov 08 11:36:30 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#N800.2FN810 Nov 08 11:37:55 djszapi, yes, and? Nov 08 11:38:55 is it possible to use N900 as a TV remote control without using PC or any other hardware? Nov 08 11:39:18 ilius: irreco Nov 08 11:39:24 ilius: qtirreco Nov 08 11:39:42 Scelt: ebzzry: i'm reading http://irreco.garage.maemo.org/documentation.html Nov 08 11:40:06 but that descibes about N800 Nov 08 11:40:21 qtirreco pretty much does the dirty job of downloading the ir profiles Nov 08 11:40:39 does not have N800 infrared transmitter? Nov 08 11:41:34 the image says that it needs PC Nov 08 11:42:30 ilius: What image? Nov 08 11:43:11 ebzzry: in my above link Nov 08 11:43:14 ebzzry: image http://irreco.garage.maemo.org/images/howitworks.png Nov 08 11:43:35 If you want to use the N900 as a TV RC, (qt)irreco does the job. If you want the technical details, look elsewhere. Nov 08 11:45:09 ilius: yep, you need something with ir Nov 08 11:45:18 ilius: The image doesn't imply that you actually need to have a PC to control a TV. Nov 08 11:45:24 you do Nov 08 11:45:28 or some external box Nov 08 11:45:34 as n800 has no ir builtin Nov 08 11:45:50 ilius: Well that's for lirc. Nov 08 11:45:50 Yup. Nov 08 11:47:56 ilius: But if you are on the N900, then it doesn't necessarily apply. Nov 08 11:48:49 hmmm Nov 08 11:50:31 ilius: Give qtIrreco a try and you won't be disappointed. Nov 08 11:50:51 ilius: Some remotes have different names, though. YMMV. Nov 08 11:51:30 ebzzry: ok Nov 08 11:51:55 i installed it and will try tonight Nov 08 11:55:21 I was dissappointed, couldn't get it to work wth any of my stuff :( Nov 08 11:56:06 hi all, did anyone notice the calendar reminders synced to SyncML being offset by timezone? i.e. I have an event 12:00, reminder is 30 minutes before but on the SyncML side and on the other synced device the reminder is 12:30 instead of 11:30... Nov 08 12:13:32 Will somebody please remind me of the keyboard shortcut to change the orientation? Nov 08 12:19:26 raster: o/ :-) Nov 08 12:22:54 DocScrutinizer: \o/ Nov 08 12:27:09 so why did I register my nickname if somebody else uses it anyway? Nov 08 12:27:11 * andre___ grumbles Nov 08 12:28:10 andre___, ghost him? Nov 08 12:28:52 ebzzry, C-S-O? Nov 08 12:30:01 yacc: ah, didn't know that exists. thanks! Nov 08 12:31:10 Your ignorance and stupidity is beyond me. Nov 08 12:31:11 You should have set it to auto-kill when you don't get identified to within 20 seconds Nov 08 12:31:51 Termana: refering to me? Nov 08 12:32:30 andre__, anyone else here right now that forgot how to use nickserv properly? :p Nov 08 12:32:39 Termana: seems like you expect everybody to have the same level of IRC knowledge that you have. Nov 08 12:33:27 andre__, do /msg nickserv set enforce on Nov 08 12:33:36 Termana: Thanks for showing off that you have the master clue. I'll refer to you in case of future dumb questions ;-) Nov 08 12:37:00 Do I remember someone saying there was something wrong with PR1.3 and qmobility geo location? Nov 08 12:39:47 alterego, you seem to be remembering it ;) :p Nov 08 12:40:15 Termana: do you know for sure? Nov 08 12:40:23 Can't find anything on google, but my app isn't working :/ Nov 08 12:42:42 Oh, weird, now it's working. Nov 08 12:42:46 Maybe that was the problem .. Nov 08 12:42:50 Intermittant failre ^.^ Nov 08 12:43:14 alterego, you just needed me to grill you for a second before it would start working Nov 08 12:43:30 Oh, nice feature ::P Nov 08 12:43:56 :p Nov 08 12:44:21 Annnoying, yeah, it doesn't seem to work everytime. Nov 08 12:44:28 I remember someone telling me about this. Nov 08 12:44:42 alterego, want me to turn the abuse up a bit, see if that helps? Nov 08 12:44:43 :p Nov 08 12:44:55 what's a difference between c7 and n8 Nov 08 12:45:31 if someone uses apmefo then 0.10-2 is available on tmo Nov 08 12:45:49 jacekowski, 11 letters and 1 number Nov 08 12:46:56 jacekowski, seriously though, I think they included a lesser camera and no HDMI-out and some other things less on the C7 Nov 08 12:47:27 hmm, compare site Nov 08 12:47:41 real keyboard on c7 Nov 08 12:47:42 hi, how can I append configure script option when compiling with scratchbox (for Diablo)? Nov 08 12:47:45 slightly heavier Nov 08 12:48:36 led flash instead of xeon Nov 08 12:48:40 xenon* Nov 08 12:48:46 8mpix Nov 08 12:49:08 * SpeedEvil ponders a xeon flash. Nov 08 12:49:17 I guess that'd be longwave-IR Nov 08 12:53:46 ruskie: Are you there? Nov 08 12:56:49 damn that N9 kbd looks lovely - alas I'm sure I'll hate the touchscreen Nov 08 12:57:36 DocScrutinizer, your late for the party Nov 08 12:57:40 you're* Nov 08 12:59:05 Termana: party starts when I'm there Nov 08 12:59:23 DocScrutinizer, touche good sir Nov 08 12:59:29 DocScrutinizer: do you have pictures? Nov 08 12:59:38 sure Nov 08 12:59:42 oh Nov 08 12:59:43 wow Nov 08 12:59:45 that's cute Nov 08 13:00:08 why we get all crap they have Nov 08 13:00:13 and symbian get's all good stuff Nov 08 13:00:21 gets* Nov 08 13:01:01 http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china Nov 08 13:01:17 jacekowski, what are you talking about? :p Nov 08 13:01:25 n8 keyboard Nov 08 13:01:44 much better than n900 on screen keyboard Nov 08 13:02:25 Who wants to use one of those anyway? :p Nov 08 13:02:34 (on-screen keyboard) Nov 08 13:02:45 iphone loosers Nov 08 13:02:46 I do occasionally. Nov 08 13:02:52 Can be useful when one-handed Nov 08 13:02:58 loosers? Nov 08 13:03:09 I thought it was one-piece, couldn't get loose? Nov 08 13:03:30 you don't get it Nov 08 13:03:47 can someone help me to convince the built-in "media player" app that my music is still there? It seems that after the latest update (might be conicidence) media play n longer sees all the music in .sounds, however filemanager can browse the "Audio Clips" symlink and other apps like "MediaBox" can see/play all sonds in .sounds just fine. Nov 08 13:04:07 rm ~/wherever Nov 08 13:04:07 mtnbkr, kill the tracker index? Nov 08 13:04:31 mtnbkr, wag a finger at it and sternly tell it to behave otherwise you will apt-get remove it Nov 08 13:04:45 crashanddie_: I have rebooted, shouldn't that be enough? Nov 08 13:04:51 Termana: heh :) Nov 08 13:04:55 nope Nov 08 13:05:39 ~/.cache/tracker Nov 08 13:06:53 SpeedEvil: ok, will try that... killing the tracker-indexer did not help... Nov 08 13:06:58 SpeedEvil: don't talk that dirty to infobot! Nov 08 13:08:02 also Nov 08 13:08:20 If you CPU is pinned, just leaving it alone for a week to finish indexing will work. Nov 08 13:08:52 waiting? what i hear Nov 08 13:08:55 nonsense Nov 08 13:09:54 why hdperf? we got tracker :-P Nov 08 13:10:48 I need to reflash my device... Nov 08 13:11:19 ~flashing Nov 08 13:11:20 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Nov 08 13:11:23 ;-P Nov 08 13:11:37 well played Nov 08 13:11:48 SpeedEvil: ok, I had to rm that .cache/tracker dir, kill tracker-indexer AND kill trackerd for media player to show the "retrieving information on new files" and it looks like it wants to run for ~7mins so that might have done ti. thanks. Nov 08 13:12:19 don't trust in that 7min :-P Nov 08 13:12:19 there's wifi for part of my walk to work :o Nov 08 13:12:32 the get more rather than less over time Nov 08 13:12:44 why not tracker reset? Nov 08 13:12:57 ~trackerreset Nov 08 13:12:57 i guess trackerreset is "tracker-processes --hard-reset" in Terminal Nov 08 13:13:07 timeless_xchat, you came on to tell us you are stealing someone else's wifi? Nov 08 13:13:10 SpeedEvil: is there a know set of circumstances that would cause that Nov 08 13:13:11 as user of course Nov 08 13:13:18 MohammadAG51: thanks Nov 08 13:13:23 * Termana rings the police Nov 08 13:13:24 :p Nov 08 13:13:49 MohammadAG51: but killall trackerd is shorter and it "seemed" to work :) Nov 08 13:13:49 * MohammadAG51 calls the internet police, escort Termana to cell 404 please Nov 08 13:13:52 mtnbkr: I would like to say that it should be possible to find bugs in tracker by inspecting the source, but IIRC it's closed. Nov 08 13:14:06 police beats up Termana and takes him out for a friendly interview Nov 08 13:14:12 SpeedEvil: I hear that Nov 08 13:14:16 mtnbkr, well, that command rms the directory, stops everything, then you have to start the media player Nov 08 13:14:23 so, it's a bit cleaner :P Nov 08 13:14:27 SpeedEvil, find bugs in? It is a bug in itself :p Nov 08 13:14:30 MohammadAG51: ahh got it Nov 08 13:14:35 also, 7 mins? Nov 08 13:14:36 nice Nov 08 13:14:38 Termana: I'd argue not. Nov 08 13:14:43 mine usually says 45:xx Nov 08 13:14:48 Termana: It's in principle a useful service. Nov 08 13:14:52 It's just ratehr broken. Nov 08 13:15:03 Like your spelling? Nov 08 13:15:04 Termana: for example, it indexes for stuff that nothing uses. Nov 08 13:15:05 :p Nov 08 13:15:11 Termana: My spelling is fine. Nov 08 13:15:16 My typing, is not. Nov 08 13:15:21 ;) Nov 08 13:15:35 As it's 7C in here, I'm typing under the blankets, and looking at the fishtank, not the screen. Nov 08 13:15:59 Though the looking at the fishtank is not relevant to the temperature. Nov 08 13:16:02 SpeedEvil: What survives in the fishtank at 7C? Nov 08 13:16:08 Goldfish. Nov 08 13:16:12 nope Nov 08 13:16:13 Fancy ones. Nov 08 13:16:18 i'm using 3g Nov 08 13:16:24 phellarv, you Nov 08 13:16:26 Oh - and koi - in principle, though there are none in it. Nov 08 13:16:30 phellarv: in winter you have 4C and most of stuff survives Nov 08 13:16:30 SpeedEvil: With build in heaters? Nov 08 13:16:31 * MohammadAG51 puts phellarv in a fish tank :P Nov 08 13:16:33 helsinki has an open network downtown Nov 08 13:16:33 * DocScrutinizer wonders if the fish are wearing wool jackets Nov 08 13:16:42 but the edge of downtown has grown Nov 08 13:17:04 sadly, my mac is not geolocation aware Nov 08 13:17:13 DocScrutinizer, no, they use a freerunner with a mugwarmer :P Nov 08 13:17:14 Fish in Wool jackets, singing "I will survive.....:" Nov 08 13:17:19 it didn't notice i changed time zones :( Nov 08 13:17:45 fish can live in water that has 4C Nov 08 13:17:49 without any problems Nov 08 13:17:58 jacekowski: I know, but very slowly. Nov 08 13:18:06 ;-P Nov 08 13:18:30 live slowly - I'l print a poster with that Nov 08 13:18:44 DocScrutinizer: Hehe Nov 08 13:19:29 * MohammadAG51 wonders if the pandaboard it out Nov 08 13:20:03 also, why is bme retarded, as in, it drops the battery meter from half to 1 bar if you restart it Nov 08 13:20:29 MohammadAG51, SpeedEvil: seems it is finished, and it found my 234 Videos (pod casts) but STILL only sees 63 songs, and there are FAR more than that Nov 08 13:20:33 MohammadAG51: because battery monitoring isn't an exact science, mine does that then a few minutes later it goes up again. Nov 08 13:20:48 http://twitter.com/#!/UnvirtuousAbbey/status/28628723135 Nov 08 13:20:49 MohammadAG51: "PandaBoard is available for ordering now through Digi-Key. Visit PandaBoard.org and click on Order now." Nov 08 13:20:53 alterego: odd Nov 08 13:21:42 ppanda board is omap4? Nov 08 13:21:54 yes Nov 08 13:21:55 It's probably due to consumption, on startup it's using more power, then when it idles for a bit the measurements stabalize. Nov 08 13:22:01 phellarv, ty Nov 08 13:22:13 alterego, no, I meant when restarting bme itself Nov 08 13:22:20 (stop; start) Nov 08 13:23:02 Oh, no idea then. Nov 08 13:28:55 alterego, was it you that suggested to use dar to create an archive of n900 :) Nov 08 13:31:22 is there a way to get vibration and/or beep in xterm-oss ? I cannot seem to find a way to get something like this working Nov 08 13:32:16 MohammadAG51: I just tried that command you posted to... it locates a bunch of db files, and removes them, and kills off the trackerd and indexer processes, but still only finds 63 of 1662 songs is there nything else I can try? Nov 08 13:34:05 Delete the songs Nov 08 13:34:10 Use VLC instead Nov 08 13:34:25 Use Groove and stream them instead Nov 08 13:34:35 Red pill or Blue pill? Nov 08 13:34:57 "No credibility but Symbian is still "the most successful failure" in tech history" (C)AllAboutSymbian Nov 08 13:35:01 there is no spoon! Nov 08 13:35:10 and the cake is a lie, too Nov 08 13:35:20 Do or do not. There is no try... Nov 08 13:35:27 "A hugely entertaining read by Tim Ocock (formerly of Symbian) over on Tech Crunch Europe this morning." Nov 08 13:35:47 RST38h, you don't need to convince US that Symbian sucks Nov 08 13:35:51 srsly... why does my N900 only see a (very) small subset of my music all of a sudden? :) Nov 08 13:36:12 Cause the US already doesn't have a Symbian marketshare. BA DUM CHHHH Nov 08 13:36:12 Termana: I am long past this point and well into "Watch clowns suck" Nov 08 13:36:22 See what I did thar? Nov 08 13:36:26 Blead: cat /usr/local/bin/beep Nov 08 13:36:26 #!/bin/sh Nov 08 13:36:26 play-sound /usr/share/sounds/game-chess_checkmate.wav Nov 08 13:36:58 mtnbkr: Are they all of one sort of file? Nov 08 13:37:08 "Yet the difficulty of writing good Symbian code was hugely beneficial to Symbian as a business in the early days. For many years, 80% of Symbians revenues were earned through consulting for licensees." Nov 08 13:37:13 Eeek Nov 08 13:37:21 SpeedEvil: will this be called when some application in xterm generate a 'beep' ? Nov 08 13:37:25 no Nov 08 13:37:38 * RST38h warms his hands in the flames of someone's burning business model Nov 08 13:37:51 SpeedEvil: just about all of them are ogg vorbis .ogg files Nov 08 13:38:08 what's a good gstreamer based DVD decoding app? Nov 08 13:38:08 * Termana snorts Nov 08 13:38:14 OGG Vorbis :p Nov 08 13:38:17 even if it's terminal based, mplayer sucks for DVDs Nov 08 13:38:21 on the N900 at least Nov 08 13:38:23 if symbian is open source, can it be built for maemo/meego? Nov 08 13:38:37 SpeedEvil: "just about all" 1659 of 1662 Or soemthing like that Nov 08 13:39:34 MohammadAG: you connected a dvd drive to your n900? :O Nov 08 13:39:37 * kerio is impressed Nov 08 13:39:52 kerio, you're a bit late, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDzUG-bno6Q :P Nov 08 13:40:08 meh, 1 day Nov 08 13:40:09 lcuk, probably, it works on a beagleboard Nov 08 13:40:25 cool Nov 08 13:40:27 also eew it lags so much Nov 08 13:40:41 lcuk, or was it you that suggested to use dar? Nov 08 13:40:47 lcuk, I hope you meant for the N900, not maemo/meego... Nov 08 13:41:21 Termana, well meego considers much more than just n900 so, no i don't just mean n900 Nov 08 13:41:53 kerio, mplayer! Nov 08 13:42:04 psycho_oreos, dar? Nov 08 13:42:18 lcuk, should work fine on OMAP2/3 :) Nov 08 13:42:32 lcuk, let me make sure I'm getting you're question straight then Nov 08 13:42:33 you could probably port it to the N810 Nov 08 13:42:38 lcuk, disk archiver, for when it comes to restoring whole bunch of setups Nov 08 13:42:39 it'd suck, but still :) Nov 08 13:42:51 lcuk, you're not asking to have Symbian build FOR MeeGo Nov 08 13:42:54 are you? Nov 08 13:43:15 psycho_oreos, no, i would recommend using hte osso backup tool and stuff Nov 08 13:43:17 built* Nov 08 13:43:21 Termana, i am asking if its possible Nov 08 13:43:25 Hmm. We're still not expecting a new meego phone until sometime mid next year, aren't we? Nov 08 13:43:40 whether some enterprising symbian developers actually want to is another matter Nov 08 13:43:59 (Afternoon :-) Nov 08 13:43:59 kerio, hence my question, any gstreamer based DVD decoders? Nov 08 13:44:12 * MohammadAG attempted to port totem once, didn't work out well Nov 08 13:44:23 lcuk, jesus no. Nov 08 13:44:31 dvd is just mpeg2, innit Nov 08 13:44:47 kerio: right. Nov 08 13:44:48 Termana, not your problem. if someone else wanted to its their problem, not yours. Nov 08 13:44:50 with some libdvdcss Nov 08 13:44:50 kerio, idk, don't have a lot of DVDs, only 3 seasons of house Nov 08 13:44:57 I never checked how they work Nov 08 13:45:06 lcuk, no I meant in answer to your question Nov 08 13:45:07 it's just mpeg2 Nov 08 13:45:10 but they need a custom mplayer (compiled with libdvdread-dev) Nov 08 13:45:13 scambled Nov 08 13:45:14 lcuk, the possibility of doing it. Nov 08 13:45:14 yeah Nov 08 13:45:30 I doubt the stock media player has libdvdread support Nov 08 13:45:33 mpeg2 + drm Nov 08 13:45:55 MohammadAG: It's a particular filesystem, with the streams in fixed-size .VOB files. That's basically just a container for mpeg2, but most DVDs are encrpted with CSS. Nov 08 13:46:24 MohammadAG: also, note that libdvdread is just the ability to read mpeg2 data from a disk - knowing the file structure and putting all the stuff back together Nov 08 13:46:39 MohammadAG: libdvdcss is the decryption bit, and that's another library Nov 08 13:47:02 yarr arr fiddle dee dee Nov 08 13:47:14 kerio, being a pirate is alright to be Nov 08 13:47:31 kerio, do what you want cause a pirate is free, YOU ARE A PIRATE! Nov 08 13:47:46 Termana: aye Nov 08 13:48:27 lcuk, not quite it, alot of personalised settings would go awol and lot of other misc debs not found in the usual repos would disappear with that normal osso-backup Nov 08 13:49:07 psycho_oreos, why are you not pushing those "random debs not in usual repos" into the usual repos Nov 08 13:49:53 lcuk, because those random deps belongs to other devs who may not have any interest in putting them into the usual repos.. stuff like matan's 9 desktop hack Nov 08 13:51:04 *sighs* I need to talk to the guy who suggested dar, I just had to reflash my firmware because of a stupid minor fuckup Nov 08 13:57:16 ccooke, libdecss? Nov 08 13:57:31 crashanddie_: libdvdcss Nov 08 13:57:51 is the usual one, but there've been a couple of other names for it Nov 08 13:59:56 anyone has seen penguinbait Nov 08 14:01:06 ~seen penguinbait Nov 08 14:01:15 penguinbait <~mlewis@Maemo/community/contributor/penguinbait> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 80d 20h 42m ago, saying: 'good, summer time here, spend lots of spare time outside ;)'. Nov 08 14:01:32 * ebzzry sighs Nov 08 14:04:47 Hi Nov 08 14:05:07 hey iPeter- Nov 08 14:05:17 Could someone tell that application or what ever its called in statusbar to show cpu and ram usage Nov 08 14:05:22 maemo 5 Nov 08 14:05:40 lcuk, no more lagging, probably cause skype isn't in use, mplayer of course Nov 08 14:05:40 iPeter-, load applet Nov 08 14:05:57 MohammadAG, nice :) Nov 08 14:06:08 lcuk, can I replace videos on youtube? Nov 08 14:06:29 crashanddie_: Does it show cpu and ram usage next to clock? Nov 08 14:06:31 MohammadAG, not that I know of, once its there its fixed url etc Nov 08 14:06:40 MohammadAG, "There is currently no way to replace an old video with a new one and retain the original view count, comments or ratings. You'll have to start over with your newer video." Nov 08 14:06:50 if that was the case, everyone would post caat videos, get 10zillion views, then replace them with other things Nov 08 14:06:58 http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=58101 Nov 08 14:08:08 anyone here knows about CUPS compilation for maemo Nov 08 14:08:34 iPeter-: yes Nov 08 14:08:53 great... Nov 08 14:09:32 uchadzodzuashvil, this is not your personal help channel. Please don't feel offended if people don't answer your questions. Nov 08 14:09:39 crashanddie_: I found that what i did seek, cpumem-applet Nov 08 14:09:52 SpeedEvil: Does it show as percent or how? Nov 08 14:10:09 iPeter-: two little bars Nov 08 14:10:37 uchadzodzuashvil, last time i heard anything about cups it was on n810 Nov 08 14:10:52 but have a look around the internet, i am sure someone has tried Nov 08 14:11:23 okay, ill use cpumem-applet, coz it doesnt install any crap screenshot things to "dropdown" menu Nov 08 14:15:25 ~seen penguinbait Nov 08 14:15:29 penguinbait <~mlewis@Maemo/community/contributor/penguinbait> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 80d 20h 56m 14s ago, saying: 'good, summer time here, spend lots of spare time outside ;)'. Nov 08 14:20:51 anyone has tried ARCHOS 70? Nov 08 14:21:37 ugh android Nov 08 14:21:48 x86 based tablet running win7 please :P Nov 08 14:22:30 already have an ARM device running a mobile OS, why on earth would I want a second, bigger one also running a mobile OS Nov 08 14:22:33 I blame apple Nov 08 14:23:14 was it adam or eve who was lured by the snake? Nov 08 14:23:30 xkr47: is that a serious question? Nov 08 14:23:33 :D Nov 08 14:24:29 no I'm just tired and preparing to go home from work.. Nov 08 14:28:28 how do I suspend tracker? Nov 08 14:29:04 killall trackerd =) Nov 08 14:29:16 I said suspend, not stop :P Nov 08 14:29:34 stopped on its own heh Nov 08 14:30:45 and with TV out, it's perfect :D Nov 08 14:30:49 lcuk, ^ :) Nov 08 14:33:07 Hey, is it possible to change default application manager. I'd like to change my application manager to Faster application manager Nov 08 14:35:16 crashanddie_: I bet you know if it is possible. Nov 08 14:35:35 AFAIK, it's not. Nov 08 14:35:42 but i'm not certain Nov 08 14:35:54 hi.. do you guys know any app that warns me if i'm over a specific speed limit? Nov 08 14:36:23 what, if you're downloading too fast? Nov 08 14:36:37 err, I meant car speeding :P Nov 08 14:36:46 :- D Nov 08 14:36:49 there's a device called a "speedometer", it's fitted standard on all cars. Nov 08 14:36:58 it's the little round thing (or digital display) Nov 08 14:37:27 some digital speedos have a high score table too Nov 08 14:37:37 yea, but the km/h display is very small, so I can hardly see it, so i was wondering if there was an application that does a sound for example when i'm over 50km/h Nov 08 14:37:42 tho its always tricky to enter your initials Nov 08 14:38:03 lcuk, gas gas gas gas gas gives you e? Nov 08 14:38:08 my car is american so it has the mph in big characters, the km/h are small Nov 08 14:38:10 :D Nov 08 14:39:09 chadi, works a lot better if drive using the same counting system as what the roadsigns tell you. Well, i guess if it says "35" and you drive at 35kph, you'll never get a ticket, but still. Nov 08 14:39:13 my car actually has that sort of thing built in chadi Nov 08 14:39:47 crashanddie_: 50km/h max in the city (beirut, lebanon) Nov 08 14:39:48 and because its got a digital dash, i can select kmph or mph for display *grin* Nov 08 14:39:56 they started to implement that today :P Nov 08 14:40:10 lcuk: that's a handy feature Nov 08 14:40:23 chadi, 31mph Nov 08 14:40:33 dont go over that speed Nov 08 14:40:44 or you will become a time traveller Nov 08 14:40:59 let's not change the topic :P Nov 08 14:41:21 well, here at 30mph limit you can do 35mphish Nov 08 14:41:21 chadi, i just solved your problem Nov 08 14:42:07 jacekowski, :) when your speedo is uncalibrated and can already be on the wrong side of the line at 30mph already, are you sure you want to take that risk Nov 08 14:42:24 lcuk: i don't look at the speedometer Nov 08 14:42:38 It's a legal requirement that the speedo under-reads if there is any error. Nov 08 14:42:49 chadi, i am glad I am not in your country Nov 08 14:42:55 (assuming correct, properly inflated tires) Nov 08 14:42:59 lcuk if your speedo is overreading it's illegal anyway, in the uk at least Nov 08 14:43:06 (in the UK) Nov 08 14:43:26 nidO, changing the wheels etc on the car and trye pressures even can shift the balance Nov 08 14:43:33 lcuk: thing is that speedcameras here have 10% accuracy Nov 08 14:43:46 haha we have none of these laws here :P Nov 08 14:43:49 lcuk, regardless, if your speedo reads a slower speed than you're travelling at, it's illegal Nov 08 14:43:56 lcuk: i mean on official calibration certificates Nov 08 14:44:02 lcuk: ducati... I know my gear and I hear the engine sound... and I would be crazy looking down to read my speedometer, thats just dangerous! Nov 08 14:44:31 chem|st: well, are you able to tell if you are doing 28 or 32 Nov 08 14:44:48 jacekowski: I dont care I got no license plate up front! Nov 08 14:44:50 and because a 100% accurate speedo is very difficult to do, this is precisely why every car manufacture purposefully calibrates speedos to overestimate your speed by a few % Nov 08 14:45:07 chem|st: well, here in uk speed cameras make you photos from back Nov 08 14:45:09 behind* Nov 08 14:45:18 jacekowski: I know Nov 08 14:45:18 depends on the camera Nov 08 14:45:42 well, average speed cameras are exception Nov 08 14:45:44 average speed cameras and some ir-based gatsos will take photos from the front Nov 08 14:45:51 well I can tell if I am above 50 or above 30 Nov 08 14:46:58 as first gear a little turn on the gas is about 30 the same for 2nd gear and 50 Nov 08 14:49:50 2nd gear 30 is when I am cursing about the gear/rpm ratio of 2nd gear... Nov 08 14:50:40 s/gear\//speed/ Nov 08 14:51:15 Hi all Nov 08 14:57:12 how many states actually have laws enforcing speeding cams? Nov 08 14:57:31 last I heard, most require you to be ticketted on the spot Nov 08 14:57:45 and mailed tickets are unenforcable Nov 08 15:01:20 Used GUI SDK installer on fresh install of Ubuntu.... twice... it core dumps. Has anyone tried a fresh install of a recent version? Nov 08 15:02:58 ScribbleJ, use the scripts Nov 08 15:03:12 also, does anyone know how the f fcam detects kernel version at bootup? Nov 08 15:03:45 I did use the script. There' a .py you can download that is supposed to be the preferred install method that provides a GUI installer. Nov 08 15:04:08 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py This script. Nov 08 15:04:18 MohammadAG: why it would detect kernel version? Nov 08 15:04:32 jacekowski, it builds modules for both power and omap1 Nov 08 15:04:38 MohammadAG: it's probably checking if certain ioctl fails Nov 08 15:04:46 very unlikely Nov 08 15:04:51 there is no gcc on a phone Nov 08 15:04:57 and fcam doesn't depend on it Nov 08 15:05:12 err, fcam-drivers Nov 08 15:05:18 fcam-drivers as well Nov 08 15:05:30 I have the source open in front of me, it has modules twice Nov 08 15:05:38 once for "vanilla" and once for "power" Nov 08 15:06:28 that sounds like a bad design choice Nov 08 15:06:40 what does debian do wrt kernel modules? Nov 08 15:06:55 nah Nov 08 15:07:05 modules are built before Nov 08 15:07:53 MohammadAG: download binary package Nov 08 15:08:09 jacekowski, I know, I want to add support for a third kernel Nov 08 15:09:16 take a look at /usr/share/fcam/fcam.conf Nov 08 15:09:27 install fcam-vanilla /sbin/insmod /usr/share/fcam/isp-mod.ko && /sbin/insmod /usr/share/fcam/omap34xxcam-mod.ko && .... Nov 08 15:09:35 and next line Nov 08 15:09:37 install fcam-power /sbin/insmod /usr/share/fcam/power/isp-mod.ko && /sbin/insmod /usr/share/fcam/power/omap34xxcam-mod.ko && ..... Nov 08 15:09:50 it's just trying to load all of them Nov 08 15:10:08 sigh, that's kinda.. stupid Nov 08 15:10:31 why Nov 08 15:10:32 it works Nov 08 15:15:33 There used to be a VM with the full SDK preinstalled. Is there still one of those available anywhere, since the .py installer doesn't produce a working environment in a fresh VM I've created myself? Nov 08 15:16:22 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php The one here doesn't include the "Desktop" version which has the full SDK (the "Server" version has never included the full SDK) Nov 08 15:18:40 MohammadAG: you know something about new fmtxd Nov 08 15:21:40 jacekowski, hmm? Nov 08 15:22:31 MohammadAG: what they changed? Nov 08 15:22:49 nope Nov 08 15:23:06 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=855742&postcount=236 Nov 08 15:23:35 jacekowski, kernel sources, not fmtxd Nov 08 15:24:08 yeah Nov 08 15:25:55 they added a power lock, PaulFertser explained that Nov 08 15:26:05 I simply compiled 1.2's sources against 1.3's headerss Nov 08 15:26:15 * MohammadAG sighs at double s Nov 08 15:27:03 * SpeedEvil realises MohammadAG is really gollum. Nov 08 15:27:29 my precioussssssssssss Nov 08 15:28:01 i'm trying to find that code Nov 08 15:28:03 and i can't Nov 08 15:28:12 power lock? Nov 08 15:28:13 sec Nov 08 15:28:18 SpeedEvil, lolwut Nov 08 15:29:03 ah Nov 08 15:29:05 nvm Nov 08 15:29:06 found it Nov 08 15:30:38 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=blob;f=drivers/media/radio/radio-si4713.c;h=dc2cea1b8a0d4bc471140befda5d2c7584919803;hb=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#l189 Nov 08 15:30:41 k Nov 08 15:31:46 cunts Nov 08 15:31:59 jacekowski, stfu Nov 08 15:32:24 wtf? Nov 08 15:33:26 d1b, don't worry, jacekowski is a bit of a retard, he has a non-obvious case of tourettes sometimes Nov 08 15:33:51 ok... Nov 08 15:34:18 he knows he'll be banned again if he keeps this up Nov 08 15:34:25 Hi Nov 08 15:34:30 and unbanned within couple minutes Nov 08 15:34:35 .. Nov 08 15:34:55 jacekowski, you really want to try that? Nov 08 15:35:27 tempting Nov 08 15:36:11 * SpeedEvil cues up the 'Do you feel lucky' speech. Nov 08 15:36:21 Heh Nov 08 15:37:35 http://xkcd.com/692/ Nov 08 15:37:58 is that the rainman one? Nov 08 15:38:32 yes Nov 08 15:38:39 hi -- anyone know of a way to connect the n900 calendar application to a CalDAV server? Nov 08 15:40:04 wow Nov 08 15:40:06 http://re-eject.gbadev.org/files/armref.pdf Nov 08 15:40:08 Yoe: external sync apps are about it, I'm afraid Nov 08 15:40:15 i finally found full usable opcode list Nov 08 15:40:31 ccooke: that's fine, but I can't find it; that's what I'm looking for Nov 08 15:40:57 jacekowski, holy cow, is that a reference for ARM assembly? Nov 08 15:41:54 crashanddie_: a quick reference, perhaps Nov 08 15:42:04 Arm assembly is easy. Nov 08 15:42:10 not very useful, it doesn't list the side effects Nov 08 15:42:19 at least not all of them Nov 08 15:42:29 'The wristbone's connected to the elbow bone. The elbow bone's connected to the shoulder bone'... Nov 08 15:45:25 * MohammadAG uploads youtube-dl Nov 08 15:53:52 does anyone know how to enable flash in opera mobile for maemo? Nov 08 15:54:17 Or does opera mobile not support flash at all? Nov 08 15:55:42 i think it's in settings Nov 08 15:55:46 plugin support Nov 08 15:57:39 how do right click in easy debian LXDE? tried a long click, it failed Nov 08 16:02:03 Hello Nov 08 16:02:12 What basic things do my maemo need? Nov 08 16:02:13 ohai Nov 08 16:02:43 lolcat: depends on what you want it to do =) Nov 08 16:02:47 Uhm Nov 08 16:03:04 lolcat: the additional codec package is something you might need Nov 08 16:03:09 I guess I need the linux thing, openttd, a nintendo 64 emulator Nov 08 16:03:11 for flac and some other stuff Nov 08 16:03:24 Yeah, I like codecs Nov 08 16:03:36 Can I get vlc without beeing in desktop mode? Nov 08 16:03:40 lolcat: there's one in extras-devel mupen64plus, but it's not really usable yet Nov 08 16:04:22 KaffeeJunky123: Can I use ps3 controllers for supernintendo emulators? Nov 08 16:04:30 yes Nov 08 16:04:37 lolcat: yes you can Nov 08 16:04:42 I guess that will have to do then. Nov 08 16:04:49 lolcat: you've to install the software for the ps3 controller though Nov 08 16:05:33 lolcat: also if you're trying to play anything, try it without sound first, the sound on the current mupen64plus version for maemo isn't good Nov 08 16:05:40 Can I use the controller for anything? Nov 08 16:05:53 probably Nov 08 16:05:58 Like texting? Nov 08 16:06:54 If you can controll the cursor with it, it might be possible to use the onscreen keyboard, but I'm not sure, I'm quite new to maemo Nov 08 16:11:06 I have to say, maemo is the best. Nov 08 16:11:23 I just hope they make Meego with a real keyboard so I can try it too. Nov 08 16:13:11 Does it run apache? Nov 08 16:13:52 it should Nov 08 16:14:03 Mysql? Nov 08 16:14:04 but why would you want an apache websever on your mobile? Nov 08 16:14:38 lolcat: it's a fullblown gnu/linux, as long as you get the dependencies, there's no problem Nov 08 16:15:13 lolcat: ofc gui applications won't just work on maemo, because of the whole hildon thing Nov 08 16:15:53 One more thing, can I playback movies using vlc? Nov 08 16:16:02 Without the desktop (it is slooow) Nov 08 16:17:31 I don't know if there's a vlc version for maemo, you could search the downloads page on maemo.org for it Nov 08 16:17:54 but maemo comes with a preinstalled media player that can playback movies Nov 08 16:18:21 But vlc is the holy grail of playback:P Nov 08 16:18:43 I don't use vlc at all on my Debian Desktop Nov 08 16:18:57 Stuff that does not use the DSP accellerated codecs han have _lots_ higher CPU usage Nov 08 16:19:06 I'm not still being offered PR1.3 OTA, why? Nov 08 16:19:08 and hence battery Nov 08 16:21:37 so, only way to run pr1.3 update without connecting to nokia suite was by initiating from a pc? Nov 08 16:21:54 or by doing it ota. Nov 08 16:21:59 is it safe to use apt-*? Nov 08 16:22:00 I am updating to 20.2010.36-2 Nov 08 16:22:19 nidO: ota wants to do a backup, presumably through nokia suite? Nov 08 16:22:24 no Nov 08 16:22:30 oh Nov 08 16:22:38 the backup is through the backup app on the device called "backup" Nov 08 16:22:43 k :) Nov 08 16:22:55 apt-get dist-upgrade offers 995 updated packages for me Nov 08 16:23:03 wonder why the description of the upgrade says it 'needs' the suite then Nov 08 16:23:35 if your upgrade tells you it needs to go through pc suite its because you either dont have enough rootfs space or have an incompatible package, most likely libgles1 Nov 08 16:23:58 Should I do dist-upgrade? Nov 08 16:24:07 how much rootfs space does it need, approx? Nov 08 16:24:27 somewhere under 60mb Nov 08 16:24:30 ok Nov 08 16:24:40 * aquatix will try this evening Nov 08 16:24:50 it's my wife's phone, so i better make it work ;) Nov 08 16:28:46 It has its own facebook app now? Oo Nov 08 16:29:26 I lost my stylus :( Nov 08 16:42:23 hi Nov 08 16:42:56 I want to reflash my device and install all installed apllacations again after reflash Nov 08 16:43:18 how do i do this the best? Nov 08 16:43:22 Nov 08 16:43:43 flexxxv: make a backup, and after reflash re-add any repositories you were using then restore the backup Nov 08 16:44:25 will it automatically reinstall all apss? Nov 08 16:44:50 will it install the right version? because some apps are from extras devel... Nov 08 16:45:06 which is why I said to re-add any repositories before restoring the back up Nov 08 16:45:08 flexxxv, if you enable the correct repos, yes Nov 08 16:46:03 hmm I haven't updatet all the apps to devel and I also don't ant this to be after restore... Nov 08 16:48:27 all contacts and conversation are stored in the backup,aren't they?Also the ones from other protocols like icq? how aboout email? Nov 08 16:48:35 yes Nov 08 16:49:10 though things like that are stored such that they won't be erased when you reflash Nov 08 16:51:22 calender is also backed up right? Nov 08 16:51:39 calendar* Nov 08 16:51:46 Ok, anything new andexciting tonight? Nov 08 16:52:00 RST38h, new CoD coming out Nov 08 16:52:29 CoD = ? Nov 08 16:53:04 call of duty: black ops Nov 08 16:53:07 ah Nov 08 16:53:07 when!? Nov 08 16:53:13 tomorrow Nov 08 16:53:21 * RST38h goes back to playingMonopoly Nov 08 16:56:50 "Nokia take on Symbian governance, Symbian Foundation to retain only licensing" Nov 08 16:56:57 * RST38h continues playing Monopoly =) Nov 08 17:04:19 Anyone know what the name of the task switcher icon is for fullscreen apps? Nov 08 17:05:02 are there any usable packet searching tools for apt on maemo? Nov 08 17:05:05 I mean for the shell Nov 08 17:05:09 like apt-file Nov 08 17:05:14 aptitude Nov 08 17:05:18 IIRC there is Nov 08 17:05:36 one of the other more basic apt-searchers is there also Nov 08 17:05:41 SpeedEvil: I tried to install aptitude already, said it's referenced by a package but not installable Nov 08 17:05:42 apt-cache search? Nov 08 17:05:44 I forget Nov 08 17:05:55 I'll try that one Nov 08 17:06:18 yeah - that Nov 08 17:06:26 search - Search the package list for a regex pattern Nov 08 17:06:54 posix regex? Nov 08 17:07:39 most single keyword searches work to reduce the problem to just a handful Nov 08 17:07:45 I have not personally verified the sort of regex Nov 08 17:08:06 it seems to use * for any symbol Nov 08 17:08:12 instead of . Nov 08 17:08:42 "apt-cache search stuff" is normally enough :P Nov 08 17:09:37 how to restart proximityd? Nov 08 17:09:48 stop proximityd; start proximityd? Nov 08 17:09:55 * MohammadAG would add a sleep in between Nov 08 17:19:05 well, once again: Nov 08 17:19:10 anyone is willing to add zRTP support to gstreamer, OTR to telepathy and GPG to modest? I know some people who would like to provide some sponsorship for the project Nov 08 17:22:02 post on maemo0-devel? Nov 08 17:40:14 can I install the openssh server in a way that it doesn't run permanently in background? Nov 08 17:40:38 hm Nov 08 17:40:55 you'd have to remove /etc/event.d/openssh-server Nov 08 17:40:59 * mgedmin checks if he got the filename right Nov 08 17:41:06 flexxxv: inetd Nov 08 17:41:31 rename,not remove Nov 08 17:43:04 sometimes i really miss a fax solution on the n900 :P Nov 08 17:43:43 well is it even possible to send fax over gsm? Nov 08 17:43:49 and how do i start afterrneming sshd? just type ssshd on command line?? Nov 08 17:44:10 hmm... what could cause constant disconnections of the cellmo with an unofficial battery that don't happen with the official one? Nov 08 17:44:12 power loss? Nov 08 17:44:16 the rest of the system is fine Nov 08 17:44:54 kerio: not enough amperes .. voltage drops Nov 08 17:45:08 must be a really cheap battery :P Nov 08 17:45:11 * MohammadAG curses maemo Nov 08 17:45:31 * cehteh has a 10Eur battery which works as good at the original Nov 08 17:46:11 cehteh: when did you buy it? Nov 08 17:46:28 about half a year ago, but rarely use it Nov 08 17:46:33 >no shit Nov 08 17:46:48 cehteh: yes Nov 08 17:46:58 cehteh: there is a special fax mode. Nov 08 17:47:07 cehteh: It's a variant of CSD IIRC Nov 08 17:47:29 SpeedEvil: but not supported on the n900 or at least has no frontend i guess Nov 08 17:47:34 Does the bluetooth dialuper allow me to leech of other peoples phones internet connection? Nov 08 17:48:05 cehteh: Dealxtreme? Nov 08 17:48:30 cehteh: yes Nov 08 17:48:30 lolcat: local 2nd (cough) hand handy shop here ... Nov 08 17:48:31 can anyone explain why this code doesn't work http://pastebin.com/695aGMru Nov 08 17:48:34 I can only blame Maemo Nov 08 17:49:43 are you running it as root? Nov 08 17:49:48 lolcat: as always i recommend to buy cheap batteries which dont fake nokia but try to establish their own brand, they have at least a little credentiability to loose Nov 08 17:50:01 I made the code, I obviously know it's supposed to be run as root :) Nov 08 17:50:24 mine is "X-Power, made in PRC" ... Nov 08 17:50:38 just checking :P Nov 08 17:50:58 Hi Nov 08 17:51:08 mupen64plus makes me rage... Nov 08 17:51:11 how i compare two package version strings for ><=? Nov 08 17:51:17 I've to kill it through an ssh session Nov 08 17:51:49 i'm wondering how qfilesystemwatcher works... perhaps it doesn't work on /sys "files"? Nov 08 17:53:15 found it Nov 08 17:53:49 ieatlint: why you think it doesn't? Nov 08 17:54:04 MohammadAG: btw does the usb-hostmode work with the power kernel? Nov 08 17:54:58 how many modified version of hildon desktop are around now? Nov 08 17:54:59 got to run in 2 secs... but as i'm not at all sure how it works, it was merely a theory.. as it's not a normal file, i could see it being an issue, but i have no real evidence to think otherwise Nov 08 17:55:20 BCMM_, at least 4-5 distinct patchsets Nov 08 17:55:47 lcuk: current ones that work with 1.3 and all? Nov 08 17:56:13 is there a wiki page or something summarising all of them? Nov 08 17:56:24 status unknown, just what I know - they should be submitted as merge requests and cleaned up into one combined best of community branch Nov 08 17:57:16 something that will work well without breaking peoples systems. ie - the 9 desktops tweak - that should be configurable, but come on by default with 4 still Nov 08 17:57:27 the only one that seems to turn up much in searches is Mattan's Nov 08 17:58:35 thp has hacks, MohammadAG has done some backports, theres numerous branchsets cloned from the gitorious one, some of which may reveal other branches and thought processes Nov 08 17:58:38 but MohammadAG has one too, right? Nov 08 17:58:55 oh, you beat me too it while i was on a different window Nov 08 17:59:08 sorry MohammadAG, we'll stop highlighting your nick now Nov 08 17:59:19 * MohammadAG isn't bothered Nov 08 18:00:35 anyway, anyone know if there are any other than Mattan's which do the "alt-tab" thing? Nov 08 18:01:52 so. anyone ported diablo patches on top of 2.6.22? Nov 08 18:02:14 i don't care about newer kernels right now. Nov 08 18:02:56 hmm after reflash there are still some packages in the package manager installed?! How this? Nov 08 18:03:09 (old packages) Nov 08 18:03:34 define "old" Nov 08 18:03:55 I mean packages that were installed before the reflash Nov 08 18:04:11 like fmtx faker Nov 08 18:04:58 did you run restore-from-backup? afaik, it installs programs back, no? Nov 08 18:05:18 i didn't used the backup yet Nov 08 18:05:53 are you sure you reflashed it? :) Nov 08 18:06:16 yeah Nov 08 18:06:39 Finishing flashing... done Nov 08 18:06:50 and just a few apps Nov 08 18:07:04 test and vote, it's not my script, but it is useful to ditch flash ;) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/youtube-dl/2010.10.24-maemo0/ Nov 08 18:08:17 MohammadAG: i'd prefer html5 support :P Nov 08 18:08:47 slightly offtopic question, anyone have any experience with running adwords ad campaigns? Nov 08 18:09:23 1i'm trying to understand what they done to fmtxd and everything around it Nov 08 18:09:55 is it normal that some libqtm* libaries are at the app manager (there where I can select apps I would like to uninstall) after reflash? Nov 08 18:10:09 and it looks like they shot themselves in a foot Nov 08 18:10:30 i mean once power level is set it will stay at same level Nov 08 18:10:48 jacekowski, yeah, it's locked to the new value Nov 08 18:10:58 so you can't lower it :P Nov 08 18:11:00 so just simple echo 120 > /sys/wherever/level Nov 08 18:11:17 and then echo 1 > /sys/wherever/lock Nov 08 18:11:26 in init scripts Nov 08 18:11:38 or change fmtx'd value to 120, and it gets locked to it Nov 08 18:12:20 that's amazing Nov 08 18:13:01 i don't get why they changed it at all Nov 08 18:14:20 jacekowski, how do you change fmtxd anyways? Nov 08 18:14:23 hex? Nov 08 18:14:32 nid0: Generally ineffective at the amount of spending you can afford. Nov 08 18:14:53 MohammadAG: sort o Nov 08 18:15:02 MohammadAG: disassembler to understand what is where Nov 08 18:15:06 RST38h: I only technically actually need one ad to show up once for one person Nov 08 18:15:08 MohammadAG: and then winhex to modify it Nov 08 18:15:33 MohammadAG: i could try to compile disassembler listing but it's not worth the effort Nov 08 18:15:34 and how do you disassemble it? Nov 08 18:15:49 with a disassembler Nov 08 18:27:45 MohammadAG: i can give you some links if you are interested Nov 08 18:28:37 jacekowski, hmm, I don't mind I guess Nov 08 18:46:08 DocScrutinizer: ping Nov 08 18:51:45 anyone had the following problem already: Nov 08 18:52:47 a couple of days ago I sent an sms, the receiver did not receive it, he tried to call me, got voicemail immediatly, on my phone I could see full cell reception but could not make outgoing calls either Nov 08 18:53:16 after I rebooted my N900 the sms got sent and I got messages that people left voicemail ... Nov 08 18:57:29 are there different language localizations for the N810 and can I re-flash the device with a different localization than it was originally sold as? Nov 08 18:58:43 I doubt there was space for several languages, so there was probably different images for localization? Nov 08 19:01:43 hrzfl, the space for localizations is not much; a single image provides all of them Nov 08 19:01:56 I'm not sure why there are several regional variations for images Nov 08 19:02:31 that's mean I could just reconfigure the current image for a different language without reflashing? Nov 08 19:03:20 there's language selection in Settings Nov 08 19:03:21 I've not seen that option... I bought it in the US but now am back in Germany and would like to give it to one of my parents who doesn't speak/read English... Nov 08 19:03:31 installing new languages, now I don't know how easy/hard that is Nov 08 19:04:09 German, I believe, is one of the supported languages Nov 08 19:04:47 let me check again... I guess I just assumed localizations were not there as even man-pages are stripped Nov 08 19:04:50 oh :) Nov 08 19:05:14 ha, indeed! Nov 08 19:05:37 says it needs to restart, but... :) lets see Nov 08 19:07:07 mgedmin: ok, neat, thanks... guess I just assumed too much :) Nov 08 19:07:27 yay Nov 08 19:07:29 hmmmmmmmmmmm Nov 08 19:27:12 * javispedro does maniacal laughter Nov 08 19:27:54 * MohammadAG hands javispedro some pills Nov 08 19:28:46 oh, Stskeeps did leave this channel. Nov 08 19:31:30 javispedro: yup Nov 08 19:31:59 javispedro, why? Nov 08 19:32:04 too many die-hard users in there I guess :) Nov 08 19:32:16 * MohammadAG needs to wipe his eMMC, 400MBs left Nov 08 19:33:53 irc'ing whilst having my haircut...... i r geek.... Nov 08 19:34:13 * javispedro does louder maniacal laughter Nov 08 19:34:13 hehe Nov 08 19:34:16 mo, can see irc flashing on the pc, but cant get to it Nov 08 19:34:28 where are those pills? Nov 08 19:34:28 mgedmin: ha, but of course the applications like canola don't or mediabox don't honor it Nov 08 19:34:39 * MohammadAG hands javispedro 42 pills Nov 08 19:34:45 lol Nov 08 19:34:48 that's the answer to life Nov 08 19:34:54 MohammadAG: seconds ago I just used 42 as a magic number Nov 08 19:35:01 meh Nov 08 19:35:06 hrzfl, not every app is translated, yes -- sad but true Nov 08 19:35:27 MohammadAG: pkt.data.hello.ping = 42; :) Nov 08 19:35:27 503.5M ./FCamera Nov 08 19:35:28 836.8M ./Flashing Files Nov 08 19:35:30 explains shit :P Nov 08 19:35:32 in theory you could write the right .po files, compile them into .mo and drop them into /usr/share/locale/... Nov 08 19:35:38 * MohammadAG thinks Nov 08 19:35:56 do I really need PR1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 files on my N900? Nov 08 19:36:05 * javispedro deleted them from his desktop Nov 08 19:36:14 like if I am ever going to use PR1.0 Nov 08 19:36:25 I went back to 1.0 after 1.2 tbh Nov 08 19:36:31 was for about a day, to see the difference mainly Nov 08 19:36:39 mgedmin: usually I don't see the point of translations... they're pretty often horrible :) but if the person doesn't speak english and is also kind of technophob... needs to be as easy as it gets Nov 08 19:36:43 vkb was win Nov 08 19:40:13 helo javispedro Nov 08 19:40:18 hiya RST38h Nov 08 19:43:31 ok, thanks again, laters Nov 08 19:49:55 moin Nov 08 20:04:18 hmm Nov 08 20:04:24 i've done something to my fmtxd Nov 08 20:04:28 and it's not working now Nov 08 20:27:05 frals, ping Nov 08 20:27:13 pong Nov 08 20:32:14 Hello! Does anyone know how to set up so I can use my computer(with mic and headphones) to make calls on my n900. Like using my computer as a headset? Nov 08 20:32:40 frals never mind, added russian translations. btw as i assume removing setting is switching to default right? Nov 08 20:35:05 Jaffa: ping Nov 08 20:35:45 i'm trying to download the virtual sdk image from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php, but there aren't any available (except the intrepid server, which is useless?) am i doing something wrong? Nov 08 20:35:45 DocScrutinizer bingo Nov 08 20:36:05 javispedro: any notion regarding NB#161191 ? (CPU @ 500 while charging) Nov 08 20:36:07 ZogG: removing settings means all fmms/mms connection settings are removed Nov 08 20:36:43 DocScrutinizer: about 500Mhz egoshin knows; about why not C3.. no idea. Nov 08 20:36:46 frals oh - so i translated right, as i thought it would be setting to default settings Nov 08 20:37:00 frals, translated it as removed though Nov 08 20:37:28 cheers :) Nov 08 20:37:30 is there an alternate download site for the SDK VM? There are no torret seeds :( Nov 08 20:37:31 and other options whent to default settings as - cause reset settings sounds wierd in russian Nov 08 20:37:48 javispedro: the related patch for pr1.3 seems bogus. This all area (charging detection etc) is so messy that it's hardly understandable. Very messy, very stupid. We'd like to know wth they were fixing by that patch. Nov 08 20:37:53 RST38h, you can translated too you know, my russian is not that good =\ Nov 08 20:38:15 PaulFertser: 100% agreed. I actually made a similar statement yesterday :) Nov 08 20:38:30 javispedro: should we revert https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=blobdiff;f=drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c;h=6cb7d13fdf067c95ff943ae0326598a9ef6f9d6f;hp=6adab83d7948b98b7d9fece2c921f94b8965a25a;hb=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4;hpb=a78d411c6518eb7dd038eef6668f78a7e6c14ec4 ? Nov 08 20:38:56 javispedro: can we somehow read NB#161191 ? Nov 08 20:39:48 andre__: can you help? Nov 08 20:39:54 heh. Nov 08 20:40:01 was also to going to ping him :) Nov 08 20:40:06 Every website i come across dealing with the Maemo SDK VM says i have to visit http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php to download the image, but it's simply not there Nov 08 20:40:43 DocScrutinizer, javispedro: the bug description internally for the bug that was "fixed" by that patch is: "N900 does not properly support charging downstream port as is specified in USB charging standard. (port that supports VBUS current > 500mA, for example a hub that has an external power). When it is connected to a CDP port it recognises it as a dedicated charger and the data connection is not established at all. This detection is made b Nov 08 20:40:43 y the HW. SW support is needed to make the data connection." Nov 08 20:40:48 DocScrutinizer: yeah, thats what I would revert. Nov 08 20:42:28 andre__: thanks very much. Sounds odd / invalid though Nov 08 20:42:52 andre__: big thanks. Nov 08 20:43:10 i guess i'll just have to build my own test environment. Nov 08 20:43:18 no problem. I like interpreting my NDA. :-P Nov 08 20:43:26 and for sure above mentioned/linked patch is targeted to this but actually completely missed the target, and introduces even more madness Nov 08 20:43:49 DocScrutinizer: think a bit about it -- so they want to keep data connection alive even if charger detection runs Nov 08 20:44:00 do not really understand the reasoning about that exactly, Nov 08 20:44:15 but it evokes the actual problem: that acting as a gadget locks cpu to 500Mhz. Nov 08 20:44:20 me neizher, but I know it can't work :-P Nov 08 20:44:24 DocScrutinizer: i'm not sure it actually misses the target. Probably it works like advertised, but that 500MHz on wallcharger is just a side effect -- it keeps the SoC ready in case it's not a charger but a CDP :) Nov 08 20:45:20 PaulFertser: do you happen to know if CPU awake is absolutely required for proper gadget operation? Nov 08 20:46:10 PaulFertser: hmm, possible. But then howTF will they deal with chargers that are actually standard USB hosts that can't supply >500 ? Nov 08 20:46:30 esp when host is maybe suspended or sth Nov 08 20:46:45 also charger detection definitely breaks data bus Nov 08 20:47:16 javispedro: no idea here, sorry. Nov 08 20:47:27 DocScrutinizer: this entire issue comes because they reset the connection after charger detection no mather if char detectected or not Nov 08 20:47:42 DocScrutinizer: previously I guess they left it broken Nov 08 20:47:50 when charger was detected Nov 08 20:48:12 * javispedro should try to stop making up words Nov 08 20:48:47 ZogG: ? Translate what? Nov 08 20:49:09 * RST38h has been doing something else and not watching this window Nov 08 20:51:05 RST38h apps Nov 08 20:51:19 anyway night Nov 08 20:51:33 ZogG: Why translate> Nov 08 20:51:43 Heh, does anyone here has Charging Downstream Port or ever used one? Nov 08 20:51:44 RST38h to help Nov 08 20:51:57 ZogG: Anyone who cannot learn a dozen of English words is probably not worth programming for Nov 08 20:52:05 well, I vote for reverting this patch. 1) I don't know a single ticket or report that would need this for fixing 2) it introduces quite some ugly behaviour and potential hw threats. 3) odds are it's broken/not working anyway for the intended "fix" Nov 08 20:52:05 i use english locale on all phones and computers but not everyone does Nov 08 20:52:58 DocScrutinizer: +1 Nov 08 20:53:03 RST38h you can say as well who can't program that app for himself doesn't worth it, and who does — doesn't need it Nov 08 20:53:07 ZogG: Same here, not using Russian on any of the devices in the house Nov 08 20:53:38 RST38h but still it would be nice to help people Nov 08 20:53:41 LC_MESSAGES=C ftw Nov 08 20:53:54 ZogG: every time I see localized device (e.g. Windows) I cannot figure out WHAT the hell they mean by this or that word Nov 08 20:54:03 even if they know language it would be nice to have native language in all apps and not a mess Nov 08 20:54:23 RST38h me too - but eveyone choose what they want Nov 08 20:54:29 ZogG: Naah, too many people, can't help 'em all, can just as well limit yourself to your family, then friends, then people you like Nov 08 20:54:49 ZogG: [which is usually a finite,countable set] Nov 08 20:55:28 The rest can go to t.m.o and bitch there. Nov 08 20:55:42 anyway night Nov 08 20:55:46 * ZogG xmms2> Erykah Badu - In Love With You ["Mama's Gun" 2000] Nov 08 20:56:08 RST38h they can' as they don't know english =) Nov 08 20:56:30 ZogG: Good! Less noise. Nov 08 20:58:27 RST38h: this last statement of yours is surprisingly the same i thought. Nov 08 20:58:45 In related news: TSA Bans Toner and Ink Cartridges On Planes Nov 08 21:01:04 old news Nov 08 21:01:31 Will probably ban dogs too... Nov 08 21:02:01 are dogs even allowed? Nov 08 21:02:35 yes, in the luggage compartment, caged Nov 08 21:02:50 or under the seat caged Nov 08 21:02:53 if it's a small dog Nov 08 21:03:37 RST38h, why? Nov 08 21:03:44 "TSA bans bubblegum on planes" Nov 08 21:04:07 Mohammad: Some Afghans tried sending expliosive-stuffed dogs to US by plane Nov 08 21:04:24 no, the ink part Nov 08 21:04:35 Mohammad: Same, but with inkcartirgdes and Yemen Nov 08 21:04:48 might as well ban people Nov 08 21:04:53 Mohammad: right Nov 08 21:05:08 apparently TSA executives saw that episode of McGuyver where he brought down two apache helicopters with a stick of bublegum and a paperclip Nov 08 21:05:26 Mohammad: Next time you go to .PA, plant an idea to smuggle explosives onto planes rectally Nov 08 21:05:43 Mohammad: I am sure TSA reaction will deliver millions of lulz worldwide Nov 08 21:05:52 just equip cops with pigs blood Nov 08 21:06:05 fsck .. hostmode flashes its own kernel without ext4 support Nov 08 21:06:10 if suicide bomber kills himself, spray the remains with pigs blood Nov 08 21:06:17 how do i flash the power kernel back :P Nov 08 21:06:18 contaminated remains, guy doesn't get his virgins Nov 08 21:06:20 cehteh, lies, I compiled it with EXT4_FS Nov 08 21:06:30 doesnt mount my FS's Nov 08 21:06:40 modprobe? Nov 08 21:06:54 crashanddie: Easily avoidable with clarification from a prominent cleric Nov 08 21:07:01 CONFIG_EXT4_FS=m Nov 08 21:07:04 it's a module Nov 08 21:07:05 ah Nov 08 21:07:08 modprobe ext4 Nov 08 21:07:10 fsck :) Nov 08 21:07:17 RST38h: there is no prominent cleric in Islam. There is no "pope" Nov 08 21:07:19 crashanddie: Something along the lines of your empty shell not beingof any interest to Allah Nov 08 21:07:38 crashanddie: As far as I know, Islam is similar to Judaism in this sense Nov 08 21:07:40 RST38h: actually, uncontaminated remains are the cornerstone of islam Nov 08 21:07:54 MohammadAG: on what kernel is that based? pr1.3 or titans? Nov 08 21:08:00 which is also related to the don't drink alcohol, don't eat pigs Nov 08 21:08:03 cehteh, custom 1.3 Nov 08 21:08:07 ok Nov 08 21:08:18 cehteh, building a kernel-power based one right, not sure if it'll work Nov 08 21:08:19 crashanddie: I.e. there are highly respected religious leaders who can make judgements in religious matters Nov 08 21:08:27 yes please :) Nov 08 21:08:38 we're getting slightly offtopic though Nov 08 21:08:50 let's talk about dolphins Nov 08 21:08:56 penguins Nov 08 21:09:00 then we can claim to be on-topic Nov 08 21:09:02 crashanddie: anyways, pig blood will not work as apermanentsolution Nov 08 21:09:03 hybrids Nov 08 21:09:17 pongphins Nov 08 21:09:19 crashanddie: bring in the anal probes and forced x-rays instead! Nov 08 21:09:32 (or just ban people, as Mohammad says, makes sense) Nov 08 21:09:40 MohammadAG: btw what happens when one turns hostmode on while on charger? Nov 08 21:09:52 cehteh: boom? Nov 08 21:10:04 yeah .. i wondering about that Nov 08 21:10:22 just melt without boom would be bad enough Nov 08 21:10:28 cehteh, you can't Nov 08 21:10:35 MohammadAG: and ehn Nov 08 21:10:44 cehteh, bme is stopped right when the app is started Nov 08 21:10:45 crashanddie: A dolhphin! Nov 08 21:10:46 when plugging in charger with hostmode on? Nov 08 21:10:58 it won't charge, as simple as that Nov 08 21:11:04 MohammadAG: well still power on the pins then Nov 08 21:11:07 ok Nov 08 21:11:24 DocScrutinizer, will probably know more though Nov 08 21:11:26 Mohammad: The big question is, will it burn, blow up, or something? Nov 08 21:11:33 I'm starting to get that desease again .. Nov 08 21:11:35 haha Nov 08 21:11:43 RST38h, it will end the world Nov 08 21:11:49 * cehteh wonders if he really needs hostmode ... Nov 08 21:11:50 Where I over engineer and lose sight of pragmatism. Nov 08 21:11:54 * MohammadAG gives alterego 42 pills Nov 08 21:12:03 Mohammad: For my N900, at least? Nov 08 21:12:08 what happens when i plug my n900 into the LHC remote console? :) Nov 08 21:12:27 depends on which end you plug it with Nov 08 21:12:32 RST38h, no, for all of us Nov 08 21:12:43 Mohammad: you are tempting me. Nov 08 21:13:07 cehteh: if you plug it with the audio jack, the LHC intercom will start playing music Nov 08 21:13:16 damit busybox / module utilities dont respect /etc/modules on the device .. can someone kick nokiaans into the balls? Nov 08 21:13:17 cehteh: this happens: http://imm.io/1ZjL Nov 08 21:13:17 cehteh, [ 9556.279510] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disk Nov 08 21:13:18 Nokia-N900:~# uname -r Nov 08 21:13:18 2.6.28.10power40 Nov 08 21:13:21 happy? Nov 08 21:13:45 MohammadAG: it works, ship it! Nov 08 21:13:55 I will, outside the UI for now Nov 08 21:14:00 you'll have to install it manually Nov 08 21:14:03 MohammadAG: check that link :P Nov 08 21:14:11 hehe Nov 08 21:14:25 LOL Nov 08 21:14:43 seriously though, is that photoshopped? :P Nov 08 21:14:53 is that shopped or some real thing (inlet for a powerhouse or whatever?) Nov 08 21:14:53 No Nov 08 21:15:10 dunno, I just modified it quickly, it usually comes with the "you divided by zero, didn't you?" Nov 08 21:15:13 where is that? Nov 08 21:15:30 Any place with a cascade of lakes that have pipes connecting them Nov 08 21:15:41 (yes, it usually means the lakes are artificial) Nov 08 21:15:53 cehteh: wtf? Nov 08 21:16:04 the rock formation in the back look like limestone/karst ... might be plausible Nov 08 21:16:27 DocScrutinizer: wtwhat? Nov 08 21:17:01 did you just insult DocScrutinizer of being a twat with a handful of gummybears in your mouth>? Nov 08 21:17:08 cehteh: go play with matan. Nov 08 21:17:34 ah .. ext4 is loaded ... but filesystems are not mounted .. so possibly it processes /etc/modules after rcS-late Nov 08 21:17:38 fsck! Nov 08 21:19:13 cehteh: on a serious note - what should happen when you apply 5V to 5V? the worst thing of plugging in Nokia wallcharger to hostmode is you're shorting D+/- and that will probably confuse the RX Nov 08 21:19:58 cehteh: do you really think I'd publish something that could damage your device, without even mentioning that threat Nov 08 21:20:15 DocScrutinizer: iff charger and n900 provide exactly 5v .. if there is a difference, then current flows .. in whatever direction, dunno how well the charger is regulated and all the crap around Nov 08 21:20:42 and most probably there'll be some difference Nov 08 21:20:51 so what? both devices are built to deliver flowing current Nov 08 21:20:51 DocScrutinizer: well no, i suspected it reasonable safe .. but just be cautionous and want to be sure Nov 08 21:21:43 better safe than sorry Nov 08 21:21:48 sure Nov 08 21:21:49 indeed Nov 08 21:22:08 sorry, I'm in matan-bashing mood still Nov 08 21:22:14 :) Nov 08 21:22:48 anyway - if the hostmode works will other stuff work beside mass storage devices? Nov 08 21:22:57 duh :P Nov 08 21:23:33 as long as there are no drivers limitations (and power limits, can be overcame with a hub), then anything should work Nov 08 21:23:39 my guess here is that once low-level usb stuff works getting devices to work is just getting drivers Nov 08 21:23:46 well .. i still have problems mounting my ext4 partitions .. now added "/sbin/modprobe ext4" directly to rcS-late Nov 08 21:23:56 as i thought, very good Nov 08 21:24:03 can't wait to plug my usb joypad :D Nov 08 21:24:08 I'm just pissed at Matan being an asshole in everything I'm involved in Nov 08 21:24:17 dRbiG, thp got a joypad working Nov 08 21:24:27 ah Nov 08 21:24:30 [ 15.530029] EXT4-fs: mmcblk1p1: Filesystem with huge files cannot be mounted read-write without CONFIG_LSF. Nov 08 21:24:30 [ 16.146148] EXT4-fs: mmcblk0p1: Filesystem with huge files cannot be mounted read-write without CONFIG_LSF. Nov 08 21:24:42 MohammadAG: there is a missing kernel config! Nov 08 21:24:44 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=867326&postcount=87 Nov 08 21:24:54 cehteh, see latest post Nov 08 21:24:59 MohammadAG: great, so hid devices should be available too :) Nov 08 21:25:03 real keyboard Nov 08 21:25:11 ahh, future is bright :) Nov 08 21:25:14 cehteh, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/hostmode/Nov_08_2010/power40/ Nov 08 21:26:00 looks like i am up to brick my device :P Nov 08 21:26:08 cehteh, wfm Nov 08 21:26:28 can you tell me a oneliner how to flash the kernel, i never did only that :) Nov 08 21:26:31 and btw. is there any definite source for hostmode news and progress report? Nov 08 21:26:42 cehteh, dpkg -i all packages Nov 08 21:26:48 dRbiG, mailing lists Nov 08 21:27:11 for end users, tmo or #maemo I suppose Nov 08 21:28:08 i'm willing to do beta testing and some lower-level technical notes could be useful too Nov 08 21:28:17 i'll have a bit more spare time this week Nov 08 21:28:18 MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer: who the hell is matan? Nov 08 21:28:21 so why not give it a try Nov 08 21:28:21 see tmo then Nov 08 21:28:33 crashanddie, matan (n.) -> see asshole Nov 08 21:28:55 dRbiG, seriously, you missed the thread? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 Nov 08 21:29:34 lol Nov 08 21:29:36 MohammadAG: you mean this guy: "Matan aka CaD aka FrenchTwat@IRC" ? Nov 08 21:29:49 MohammadAG: it seems that i did Nov 08 21:29:58 catching up right now :) Nov 08 21:30:02 Hmm Nov 08 21:30:30 lol crashanddie Nov 08 21:30:33 ~seen Matan Nov 08 21:30:41 matan <530f167a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.15.22.122> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 53d 13h 31m 2s ago, saying: 'morning'. Nov 08 21:31:37 crashanddie, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=866343&postcount=15 him Nov 08 21:31:38 MohammadAG: thanks .. installed all .. is ext4 still a module? Nov 08 21:32:06 cehteh, as per power40, not sure how that handled things Nov 08 21:32:18 wtb 2 votes http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fmms/1.2.6/ :[ Nov 08 21:32:26 if you didnt changed it then it should be buildin Nov 08 21:32:30 frals, testing is dead Nov 08 21:32:34 * cehteh reboots Nov 08 21:32:38 cehteh, only changed hostmode related lines Nov 08 21:32:48 ok Nov 08 21:33:55 cehteh, don't upgrade to the repos version, for obvious reasons Nov 08 21:34:13 ok Nov 08 21:34:32 how long does it take to sink in? Nov 08 21:37:29 ok works .. Nov 08 21:54:47 what is the n900's screen refresh rate? Nov 08 21:55:03 Hello! Does anyone knows if it's possible to make calls from my computer though my n900. Using the computers headphones and mic to talk Nov 08 21:55:50 there is asterisk packaged for the n900 .. maybe that helps Nov 08 21:55:53 use sip protocol Nov 08 21:56:58 btw since 1.3 smartreflex seems to work reliable for me .. Nov 08 21:57:11 just for the record Nov 08 22:00:01 hmm, i think i'm failing with this C book, the program that i wrote does exactly the opposite of what it was intended to do :X Nov 08 22:00:46 cehteh, kernel-power is based on 1.2's kernel, for the record Nov 08 22:00:47 displays "dlrow olleh"? Nov 08 22:00:55 nidO, :-D Nov 08 22:01:05 * MohammadAG51 s off Nov 08 22:01:25 MohammadAG: i know, i suspect crashes before where from firmware blobs (gpu, dsp) Nov 08 22:02:05 at least i had no crash yet, before powerreflex crashed my device within minutes or maybe at least after few hours Nov 08 22:07:00 * alterego yawns Nov 08 22:07:11 I got a very odd problem. In Conversations window, a scrollbar appeared and touch scrolling is not working anymore. http://i55.tinypic.com/2vw6adt.png Google'd about it but couldn't find anything, can someone help me please? Nov 08 22:11:36 That's quite cool Nov 08 22:12:02 Have you tried restarting your device? Nov 08 22:12:45 alterego: yes, tried that twice. Nov 08 22:12:53 Eek, Nov 08 22:13:11 Hrm, are you running PR1.2 or 1.3? Nov 08 22:13:17 alterego: PR1.3 Nov 08 22:13:33 reinstall your theme Nov 08 22:13:35 Could you pastie.org dpkg --list Nov 08 22:13:45 Yeah, try that too :) Nov 08 22:14:01 MohammadAG51: but It's the default one, how I'm going to that? Nov 08 22:14:14 reinstall it :p Nov 08 22:14:14 Try switching themes and then switching back. Nov 08 22:14:22 hildon-theme-alpha/beta Nov 08 22:14:31 alpha is blue, beta is orange Nov 08 22:14:50 to easily pastebin, install pastebinit and Nov 08 22:14:58 dpkg --list|pastebinit Nov 08 22:15:53 gnite Nov 08 22:16:49 switched to Digital Nature, still bugged. pasting dpkg --list now. Nov 08 22:17:58 alterego: http://pastebin.com/0GUdkz45 Nov 08 22:19:42 Did the scroll bar dissappear when you switched to the other theme? Nov 08 22:19:52 alterego: no, it's still there. Nov 08 22:20:04 Try restarting your device now. Nov 08 22:21:54 ok, reinstalling the hildon-theme-alpha, 40 seconds left, rebooting after its completion. Nov 08 22:23:20 Okay, I'll brb Nov 08 22:26:16 alterego: reinstalled and rebooted, It's still there. Nov 08 22:26:32 Eesh Nov 08 22:26:46 Well, I guess you're going to have to reflash. Nov 08 22:27:03 Something sounds like it's got corrupt. Nov 08 22:27:20 can't I reinstall the conversations app? Nov 08 22:27:39 and purge config files related to it? Nov 08 22:27:51 reflashing because of a stupid scrollbar makes me feel really bad :| Nov 08 22:30:14 Possibly, Nov 08 22:31:58 I'd check gconftool -R for suspicious keys, maybe by |grep rollbar and |grep rolling and |grep inetic Nov 08 22:32:30 DocScrutinizer: Nokia-N900-42-11:~# gconftool -R | grep rollbar Must specify one or more directories to recursively list. Nov 08 22:32:37 DocScrutinizer: can you help me out about this? Nov 08 22:32:48 -R / Nov 08 22:33:10 iirc Nov 08 22:34:09 DocScrutinizer: http://pastebin.com/2gV0MxCs I noticed an entry, scrollbar = true Nov 08 22:34:10 you considered to restore a backup? just the settings might suffice to restore Nov 08 22:34:32 I don't have any backups to be honest :| Nov 08 22:35:23 probably you're better off with less instead of grep Nov 08 22:35:55 or give grep some context Nov 08 22:36:12 like maybe 6 lines headers Nov 08 22:36:55 if anybody is interested Nov 08 22:36:56 http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/FMTXD1.3 Nov 08 22:37:57 DocScrutinizer: *stupid question* I couldnt understand anything in fact :| Nov 08 22:38:20 DocScrutinizer: should I do gconftool -R | less? Nov 08 22:38:28 gconftool -R | grep -B 5 rollbar Nov 08 22:38:37 or less, I'd use less Nov 08 22:39:51 DocScrutinizer: http://pastebin.com/W3A4n7X2 Nov 08 22:40:09 searching in less is fine, you just have to either patch your system to handle Enter key correctly, or use ^M Nov 08 22:40:21 DocScrutinizer: looks like that scrollbar entry was xterm, not conversations app. Nov 08 22:40:37 hmm, first really productive day in couple weeks Nov 08 22:40:45 fixed fmtxd Nov 08 22:41:08 and i managed to work around rslogix5k code protection Nov 08 22:41:33 Aranel: :nod: :-/ Nov 08 22:42:08 btw. if anybody is interested i made a copy of that flash that somebody linked here couple days ago http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/Flash Nov 08 22:42:30 Aranel: maybe you find better results by searching for better matchstrings. onversations seems a good one Nov 08 22:42:35 DocScrutinizer: any other ideas about this issue? I'm kinda hopeless now. Nov 08 22:43:20 but honestly, I'm somewhat just wild guessing. an strace of conversations app might also help Nov 08 22:44:36 probably a reflash is the faster alternative though, of course with a test prior and after restoring your backup you'll of course do of current system Nov 08 22:44:42 DocScrutinizer: grep conversations didnt return any match, tried gconf /osso/apps/rtcom-messaging-ui: http://pastebin.com/xg0Tr14X Nov 08 22:45:00 jacekowski: linking to a patch would be nice Nov 08 22:45:08 jacekowski: (fixed kernel module) Nov 08 22:45:17 In fact It's a very slower alternative for me, since I'm using the same system without flashing for a year and It's still rock-solid, except this little annoying scrollbar recently appeared :| Nov 08 22:45:40 jacekowski: what is this http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/libflashplayer.so ? Nov 08 22:45:52 jacekowski: is this the TI version? Nov 08 22:46:30 DocScrutinizer: I guess It's a hard thing to do, but how can I "strace conversations app"? Nov 08 22:46:44 DocScrutinizer: I really want to solve this issue, instead of reflashing. Nov 08 22:47:10 PaulFertser: i don't have one Nov 08 22:47:13 PaulFertser: i patched a binary Nov 08 22:47:22 sorry, I'm afk now. I guess somebody else here might take over Nov 08 22:47:31 jacekowski: the kernel module? Nov 08 22:47:32 PaulFertser: just to default to region 4 to unlock all frequencies Nov 08 22:47:34 PaulFertser: yes Nov 08 22:47:41 oh ok, thanks anyway :| Nov 08 22:47:46 PaulFertser: power locking is still there Nov 08 22:47:58 PaulFertser: but fmtxd isn't using it Nov 08 22:48:00 jacekowski: ? Nov 08 22:48:07 trumee: dunno Nov 08 22:48:17 trumee: that's version somebody linked here couple days ago Nov 08 22:48:21 jacekowski: so you have tested that binary? Nov 08 22:48:24 what is "soft poweroff", referred to in systemui.xml? Nov 08 22:48:24 *havent Nov 08 22:48:37 jacekowski: i wonder if maemo users have some "community" kernel, then it might be just updated with pr1.3 fixes (minus that strange USB charging tweak), "power" patches on top and hostmode. Nov 08 22:48:57 jacekowski: of course pr1.3 fixes shouldn't include fmtx locking there. Nov 08 22:49:00 PaulFertser: it's called kernel power Nov 08 22:49:08 jacekowski: is it actively maintained? Nov 08 22:49:18 ~seen t-tan Nov 08 22:49:23 t-tan <~tanner@e179094244.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 150d 3h 2m 46s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'. Nov 08 22:49:55 [Repost] I got a very odd problem. In Conversations window, a scrollbar appeared and touch scrolling is not working anymore. http://i55.tinypic.com/2vw6adt.png Google'd about it but couldn't find anything, can someone help me please? Nov 08 22:50:09 Where does libflashplayer sit in N900. Cant find it in ~/.mozilla ? Nov 08 22:50:11 * DocScrutinizer wonders what happened to titan or to his device X-P Nov 08 22:51:14 ah, it is here /usr/lib/browser/plugins Nov 08 22:52:51 make a backup Nov 08 22:52:52 DocScrutinizer: a big shock? Nov 08 22:53:10 jacekowski: yeah, done that Nov 08 22:53:14 and tell me if it's working Nov 08 22:53:20 as i had no chance to test it yet Nov 08 22:53:34 jacekowski: hope it is not a tweaked version 9 binary Nov 08 22:53:54 jacekowski: is there any real flash 10 page i can test it with? Nov 08 22:54:48 person that linked a link to it to me claims that it's real flash 10 Nov 08 22:55:37 trumee: I remember some links to real flash 10 pages on Maemo Talk Flash 10.1 thread. Nov 08 22:56:10 jacekowski: crap i see a globe on adobe find flash version, rather than any numbers Nov 08 22:56:54 http://www.senocular.com/flash/tutorials/flash10drawingapi/demos/Kaleidoscope%20Rose.html Nov 08 22:56:57 try this Nov 08 22:57:37 if it isn't a contraversial issue, why is there no flash 10? is it adobe's fault, or nokia's? Nov 08 22:57:47 nokia's Nov 08 22:57:52 jacekowski: facebook says Upgrade flash player! Nov 08 22:58:04 have you restarted browserd? Nov 08 22:58:16 jacekowski: i restarted the device Nov 08 22:58:23 That's user's fault, they should have boycotted flash more :| Nov 08 22:58:39 facebook video works fine with version-tweaked flash 9 Nov 08 22:58:54 PaulFertser: yeah, i wish flash would die Nov 08 22:59:29 PaulFertser: in the meantime, i'm quite happy to let iphone users apply pressure, while i get to actually use websites Nov 08 22:59:59 BCMM: i wonder what kind of useful websites really require flash though. Nov 08 23:00:08 jacekowski: nope that is not real flash 10 Nov 08 23:00:16 jacekowski: so what's the deal? does nokia need to pay adobe, or just package their player? Nov 08 23:01:21 BCMM: both Nov 08 23:02:09 does adobe want an silly amount of money or something? Nov 08 23:02:53 nah, nokia is just abandoning n900 Nov 08 23:05:11 i went to adobe's own version test site, and my n900 rebooted - with jacekowski's flash plugin installed Nov 08 23:05:17 hmm, it looks like it's not working Nov 08 23:05:29 jacekowski: they are still selling it, and presumably still advertising facebook integration Nov 08 23:12:56 Evening ... ! Nov 08 23:13:11 jacekowski: It is flash 10.1, but only for android... strings show it is "Shockwave Flash 10.1 d61", while the flash for arm on the TI site was 10.1 r92 Nov 08 23:14:10 well, somebody here claimed that it's working Nov 08 23:14:30 but i'm not going to point fingers Nov 08 23:15:51 Ok, if it works. But I don't believe it until I see it. I'm not so much after flash anyway. Nov 08 23:17:02 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-11-03.log.html#t2010-11-03T15:52:54 Nov 08 23:17:28 the tweak flash plugin does a good job? Nov 08 23:18:48 jacekowski: :-D I also had downloaded it. Nov 08 23:27:26 Btw, I have updated hw crypto drivers which do not crash the device anymore. I only included the hw drivers, the src for the hash algorithm and dm driver including nolo (which is still needed to flash) can be found in the backlog. Nov 08 23:27:28 http://www.mediafire.com/?0krkujb0vevvkva Nov 08 23:28:24 # apt-cache search sharing Nov 08 23:28:24 Bus error Nov 08 23:28:31 uhm?!wtf1!!11 Nov 08 23:29:14 heh Nov 08 23:29:21 the other day I got a lot of them Nov 08 23:29:32 works on a 2nd attempt Nov 08 23:29:37 unaligned writes might cause those Nov 08 23:29:46 e.g. malloc() returning shit, or mmap, etc. Nov 08 23:30:35 i know .. but this should normally not happen Nov 08 23:31:12 memory corruption .. neutrino radiation from the sun, mindcontrolling rays from the nsa whatever Nov 08 23:31:17 you tell me Nov 08 23:31:22 I got tired from those yesterday Nov 08 23:31:28 still don't know what caused them Nov 08 23:31:50 well, I do know mmap on my system started returning shit, but I do not know the underlying cause. Nov 08 23:35:34 straced the conversations app and couldn't understand anything on it :| can someone help me to find which configuration files rtcom-messaging-ui using? Nov 08 23:37:03 cehteh: maybe your / partition was full, that can cause crazy errors, at installing more apps in particular. Nov 08 23:37:37 nah isnt Nov 08 23:37:42 transient error Nov 08 23:37:47 http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-15140 Nov 08 23:37:49 btw: i have no idea why / is so small Nov 08 23:38:07 Anyone here using the hostmode kernel? Nov 08 23:38:21 i have no idea why nokia fucked it up this way, small / is ok .. but the optification sux Nov 08 23:38:30 alterego: yes Nov 08 23:38:41 question of price Nov 08 23:38:47 MohammadAG made a power kernel with hostmode earlier this evening Nov 08 23:38:55 / is on a fast nand Nov 08 23:39:06 and the 32gb are slower nand Nov 08 23:39:17 (in fact not an nand but emmc� Nov 08 23:39:20 ) Nov 08 23:39:20 cehteh, yeah, in this point its the most fubared operating system i ever seen since decades Nov 08 23:39:34 16MB fast nand for / and 512MB or 1G ram would make me more happy Nov 08 23:39:37 cehteh: does your camera work? Nov 08 23:39:46 alterego: lemme try Nov 08 23:40:07 Though, it might work with the power kernel. Nov 08 23:40:11 kamera fcam or what? Nov 08 23:40:22 Standard camera app Nov 08 23:40:40 video works .. i had once porblems with it Nov 08 23:40:57 photo too Nov 08 23:41:02 Hrm, I keep getting operation failed messages. Nov 08 23:41:12 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/hostmode/Nov_08_2010/power40/ Nov 08 23:45:28 I have coffee, it's 11:39pm and I plan to work through the night. Nov 08 23:45:49 please package compcache for the n900 :) Nov 08 23:46:04 I already have a job to do :P Nov 08 23:47:39 cehteh: my phone provider sold it as with 1GB RAM but it is in fact 256MB and the rest is SWAP. As if it makes no difference. This is really a question as old as Linux but maemo choose the worst possibility herein. Nov 08 23:47:42 Compcache for the N900 would be great, maybe another time :P Nov 08 23:47:53 andax: i know Nov 08 23:48:16 I've tried to modify the swap notify patch myself, but the patches from Nokia change swapfile.c pretty much Nov 08 23:48:20 ~optification Nov 08 23:48:20 not really Nov 08 23:48:20 i guess optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Nov 08 23:48:26 don't have enough experience to knwo what I'm doing :P Nov 08 23:48:32 n900 processor isn't fast enough to deal with compression Nov 08 23:48:43 and it would be slower than reading it from emmc Nov 08 23:49:19 jacekowski: compcache is blazing fast, it works on slower processors Nov 08 23:49:26 name one Nov 08 23:49:41 some people run it on the G1 iirc Nov 08 23:49:53 the compcache page has some results Nov 08 23:50:33 accessing emmc has more latency and needs more power than compressing/decompressing lzo Nov 08 23:52:11 accessing emmc comes not for free .. there are quite some software layers and hardware stuff involved Nov 08 23:52:35 iDont: i heard it already helps significantly to move swap to microSD. The data bus is a bottleneck Nov 08 23:52:55 not only processor Nov 08 23:53:02 meh, first instance if there were less preloaded applications and those that are were less RAM greedy, then we'd be much happier with 256MB ram - hell my Panasonic toughbook had a 300MHz-P-II mobile and 192MB, and was quite ok for KDE3 (except for OOo :-P) Nov 08 23:53:32 bah Nov 08 23:53:34 andex: I've already moved my swap to a dedicated MicroSD partition ;) Nov 08 23:53:36 there's never enough RAM. Nov 08 23:53:43 I used the N810 with 128MiB and NO swap. Nov 08 23:53:55 and it's not like fremantle is twice in size. Nov 08 23:54:05 real 0m 2.27s Nov 08 23:54:14 that's how long it takes to compress 10M file Nov 08 23:54:24 javispedro: sometimes there's too much RAM. RAM eats power, and has overhead for management as well Nov 08 23:54:24 iDont, be carefull moving swap to sd ... if it s too slow it ll use more the cpu and can cause sudden reboot Nov 08 23:54:36 iDont, at least it s my own experiences Nov 08 23:54:47 jacekowski: 2.27s sounds _a lot_ Nov 08 23:54:54 jacekowski: can't be Nov 08 23:54:54 yep Nov 08 23:55:01 it is Nov 08 23:55:03 bz2? Nov 08 23:55:04 iDont: which class microSD card should it be? Nov 08 23:55:06 lzo Nov 08 23:55:11 O.o Nov 08 23:55:18 khertan_: it's class 6, no sudden reboots yet. Also, didn't notice anny accelerated battery drain, though I can't back this up except by my own judgement Nov 08 23:55:47 *any Nov 08 23:55:51 DocScrutinizer: definitely. Nov 08 23:55:58 i'd like to have swap on uSD and emmc .. at the same priority then the kernel distributed it evently Nov 08 23:55:59 cehteh: lzo isn't fast enough for this stuff Nov 08 23:56:18 lzo not fast enough? Nov 08 23:56:24 yep Nov 08 23:56:25 but unfortunally the busybox swapon doesnt support swap priorities Nov 08 23:56:27 iDont, personnaly i notice better performance, better battery, and ... sudden reboot with two class 6 micro sd ... Nov 08 23:56:45 how to change stand-by clock background? Nov 08 23:56:46 iDont, maybe this is due to sd ... and i should try with an other one Nov 08 23:56:50 cehteh: that's not exactly a show stopper Nov 08 23:57:02 kharten_: that's a shame, maybe the sd card has some bad sectors or something? Nov 08 23:57:13 iDont, didn't notice Nov 08 23:57:19 javispedro: well for someone lazy like me it is .. dont want to compile util-linux :) Nov 08 23:57:28 cehteh: have easydebian around? Nov 08 23:57:42 iDont, and sudden reboot give no errors unfortunatly Nov 08 23:57:44 ah that might be an idea ,, no but i can install it Nov 08 23:58:01 anyone here familiar w/ dpkg-buildpackage and friends? Nov 08 23:58:10 * timeless_ is trying to puzzle through a build process Nov 08 23:58:12 timeless, depends ... Nov 08 23:58:16 everybody here should be partially familiar with those :) Nov 08 23:58:18 is it likely that i could do: Nov 08 23:58:24 apt-get source foo Nov 08 23:58:27 and end up with: Nov 08 23:58:27 khertan_: can't help you, I'm running swap on microsd since PR 1.3 was released and haven't experienced any bad behaviour yet Nov 08 23:58:29 foo-0.1/ Nov 08 23:58:30 since my filesystems are ext4 i even dont need this crappy loopback and could chroot directly (or do without chroot) Nov 08 23:58:35 and then somehow do a "build step" Nov 08 23:58:38 which would give me Nov 08 23:58:41 i would set it to priorize swap on microSD but keep swap on N900, so i still could remove the microSD card without severe problems (would only need to poweroff or '# swapoff') Nov 08 23:58:42 foo/foo-0.1/ Nov 08 23:58:48 ? Nov 08 23:59:08 * cehteh never removes the microsd Nov 08 23:59:09 "mkdir foo && mv foo-0.1 foo"? /me didn't understand Nov 08 23:59:11 iDont, maybe i should try again with 1.3 ... i ve try with 1.1 Nov 08 23:59:29 javispedro: i'm looking at a directory which has "stuff" Nov 08 23:59:30 iDont: remove back cover Nov 08 23:59:36 so, has anybody with 1.3 checked if a mere "cp -r /media/mmc1/ MyDocs" still freezes the whole device? Nov 08 23:59:39 iDont: and you will notice bad behaviour Nov 08 23:59:45 jacekowski: haha, no thank you ;) Nov 08 23:59:49 i don't know what "scripts" have been doing what forms of "black magic' Nov 09 00:00:12 jacekowski: i had this sd card laying around, so I though I could give it an use Nov 09 00:00:15 DocScrutinizer: i didnt tried, but possibly it still does .. rsync --bwlimit ftw Nov 09 00:00:30 pff Nov 09 00:01:06 $ find bash -name debian; find bash-4.1/ -name debian Nov 09 00:01:33 bash/4.1-x_maemox_xmx/debian Nov 09 00:01:44 bash-4.1/debian Nov 09 00:01:54 sounds completely broken Nov 09 00:02:01 tell me about it? Nov 09 00:02:01 nfi what could create bash/${version/ dir Nov 09 00:02:40 so, my problem is... Nov 09 00:02:45 * javispedro congratulates Bash for his excellent choice of a nickname Nov 09 00:02:47 i have code which tries to rename bash-4.1 to bash Nov 09 00:03:00 but it obviously fails if bash already exists Nov 09 00:03:01 javispedro: its my name Nov 09 00:03:02 ... Nov 09 00:03:26 wtf is "murrianightorange 0.1" my device wants to install/upgrade that Nov 09 00:03:37 eh some theme .. wtf :P Nov 09 00:03:44 * timeless_ congratulates bshnohighlight 's parents on their excellent choice... Nov 09 00:03:48 * DocScrutinizer has a deja-vu Nov 09 00:04:01 http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=56839 Nov 09 00:04:10 MurrinaNightOrange Nov 09 00:04:15 0.9 Nov 09 00:04:24 GTK 2.x Theme/Style Nov 09 00:04:33 anybody tried using ext4 for /home? A few weeks ago I've built the kernel module into the kernel, formatted the partition as ext4, copied user and opt back (cp -a), but got into a reboot loop back then. Nov 09 00:04:34 anyway... Nov 09 00:04:35 cant remember that i installed it Nov 09 00:04:47 * DocScrutinizer is searching IRC log for "bashir" Nov 09 00:04:50 iDont: i wont use it for home because of /opt Nov 09 00:04:51 iDont: congrats Nov 09 00:05:07 timeless_: ? Nov 09 00:05:07 * timeless_ gives iDont an iDunce award Nov 09 00:05:18 iDont: i have ext4 on MyDocs and uSD Nov 09 00:05:21 does qt bugs should be submit too to the maemo bug tracker as it s a qt-x11 bugs specific to the Kinectic Scroller ? Nov 09 00:05:27 http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-15140 Nov 09 00:05:51 khertan_: that's the upstream tracker Nov 09 00:05:54 timeless_: sorry, i don't get it. What would prevent anyone from using a different FS? Nov 09 00:05:59 there's no reason to file the bugs downstream Nov 09 00:06:03 http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-09.log.html#t2010-10-09T23:59:24 Nov 09 00:06:05 iDont: consider /home as vital system partition you need to dive into some pita when you want to make it ext4 Nov 09 00:06:05 unless you feel like annoying andre Nov 09 00:06:05 timeless, ok Nov 09 00:06:16 timeless_: had performed a reflash anyway, so didn't had anything to lose Nov 09 00:06:20 timeless_, this isn't the purpose :) Nov 09 00:07:04 iDont: you have to fiddle out how the boot process mounts /home .. there are a lot nokiaisms and braintfarts there Nov 09 00:07:13 it needs /home quite early ... Nov 09 00:07:21 cehteh: don't worry, I had moved /home to an ext3 partition on the microsd card and edited the genfs awk and rcs late to use that partition as /home Nov 09 00:07:29 cehteh: this setup survived a reboot ;) Nov 09 00:07:34 iDont: take back cover off Nov 09 00:07:45 cehteh: so I could parition the emmc freely Nov 09 00:08:05 javispedro: so um... Nov 09 00:08:08 about my bash problems Nov 09 00:08:10 so .. figure out why it doesnt work Nov 09 00:08:12 any suggestions? Nov 09 00:08:12 jacekowski: i'm not stupid Nov 09 00:08:28 i can try to glob for */debian and strip /debian Nov 09 00:08:31 but that's incredibly annoying Nov 09 00:08:39 * timeless_ isn't even sure it'd work Nov 09 00:09:03 Is there any "Snap to grid" app what would work on pr 1.3? Nov 09 00:09:24 iPeter-: there's tweaker or something Nov 09 00:09:26 why does everyone act like everyone is stupid? unknown people can have a linux background too Nov 09 00:09:33 timeless_: suggestions? one: build bash4 *with* "help" enabled, pretty please! Nov 09 00:09:46 sorry, "Tweakr" Nov 09 00:09:49 timeless_: Tried tweakr, still non snap to grid. Nov 09 00:10:03 i took the right precautions before messing with the emmc: i've succesfully moved /home to the microsd card so i could parition the emmc Nov 09 00:10:07 iPeter-: sorry, it's the only one i know of Nov 09 00:10:24 DocScrutinizer: ? bash is just an example Nov 09 00:10:33 iPeter-: trying alone won't help. You need to enable snap-to-grid in tweakr Nov 09 00:10:52 oh, heh Nov 09 00:10:54 yeah well... Nov 09 00:11:04 timeless_: sorry, but still not understanding what you're trying and to do and why it cannot be done with plain dir movement. Nov 09 00:11:10 DocScrutinizer: Have tried small and large "snap-to-grid" options, still none. Nov 09 00:11:18 :-/ Nov 09 00:11:23 no idea then Nov 09 00:11:26 javispedro: imagine an entire source tree for maemo Nov 09 00:11:32 then imagine that some other script is managing it Nov 09 00:11:36 odds are any other "app" will fail as well Nov 09 00:11:37 it's also making a mess of it Nov 09 00:12:02 i want to steal just the useful directories Nov 09 00:12:05 ah, and you want to _revert_ the mess, not cause it. Nov 09 00:12:16 cehteh: i've written solution #7 on the wiki page about repartitioning the emmc. read that and you'll see that moving /home works just fine Nov 09 00:12:19 hehehe Nov 09 00:12:21 well, _revert_ would be rm -rf in some flavor Nov 09 00:12:30 i just want a copy of the pristine bits minus the crap Nov 09 00:12:50 iDont: i just keep it ext3 .. good enough for that Nov 09 00:12:54 timeless_: if the .dsc files are still in the mess you can potentially extract the original package from them. Nov 09 00:13:14 javispedro: they are Nov 09 00:13:19 i used to do that in a previous incarnation Nov 09 00:13:27 i'd rather not spend the effort on that Nov 09 00:13:38 cehteh: yes, surely good enough, but i had nothing to lose, so i gave it a shot ;) Nov 09 00:13:38 it's a lot of extra work which *probably* is totally wasteful Nov 09 00:13:45 i think */debian will do the right thing Nov 09 00:13:52 minus the pain of stripping /debian Nov 09 00:13:53 yes... Nov 09 00:14:00 * DocScrutinizer ponders about timeless_ 's incarnations Nov 09 00:14:19 sometime (lets say 99.9% of the time) i need my device just working :) Nov 09 00:14:26 echo $(ls -d */debian|perl -pne 's!/debian!!') Nov 09 00:14:45 i'm using w7 as a vpn client Nov 09 00:14:53 so i don't have memory for my normal irc client :) Nov 09 00:15:16 my primary nick is being sat on by my primary ssh client Nov 09 00:15:25 but the ssh port on that box is down Nov 09 00:15:25 nights Nov 09 00:15:31 so i can't animate it :( Nov 09 00:16:42 timeless_webchat: could you please elaborate why /home as ext4 woldn't work? Nov 09 00:18:47 good morning Nov 09 00:18:58 Good Mornin Termana Nov 09 00:18:59 because ext4 == /dev/null with delay Nov 09 00:19:19 hi Termana Nov 09 00:20:03 jacekowski: i disagree, haven't lost any data with it yet Nov 09 00:20:19 i said - with delay Nov 09 00:20:27 yeah thats a myth .. ext4 works quite reliable Nov 09 00:20:27 jacekowski: but i don't like to turn this into a FS discussion Nov 09 00:21:29 i'm not saying it won't work Nov 09 00:21:30 even if ext4 was stable in the 2.6.3x series, it surely wasn't in the 2.6.2x Nov 09 00:21:40 s/was/is Nov 09 00:21:44 i'm just applauding your efforts to brick your device Nov 09 00:22:14 timeless_webchat: okay, as i said: i had nothing to lose, plus I know my way around in Linux Nov 09 00:22:23 timeless_webchat: so i gave it s shot, but i failed Nov 09 00:22:43 timeless_webchat: and i'd like to know why, so i asked here Nov 09 00:23:09 javispedro: dunno about stability in 2.6.2x series, but i wanted to give it a shot ;) Nov 09 00:23:18 no ext4 support in kernel Nov 09 00:23:35 jacekowski: i've said earlier i had compiled support in Nov 09 00:24:10 i would really like to know what went wrong, everything looked good Nov 09 00:24:41 i want ibm's jfs instead ext4, it was supported in mandrake linux since 1999 Nov 09 00:24:51 * cehteh uses ext4 since march or so .. not a single problem reported by fsck Nov 09 00:24:56 So before I go through and manually fix hundreds of calender entries - is there a fix to remove the "daylight savings time adjustment" on my n900 calender? Nov 09 00:25:03 iDont, I bet that's what she said Nov 09 00:25:23 Termana: :D Nov 09 00:25:24 and by javispedro's rants i'd say he is just guessing but not using it Nov 09 00:25:46 Jef91: as far as i know it's storing time in unix timestamp Nov 09 00:25:47 cehteh: rants? Nov 09 00:25:51 there are some known problems with ext4 on the .28 kernel Nov 09 00:26:05 cehteh: read again my message, I just said exactly the same you have just said. Nov 09 00:26:09 but these are not that dramatic .. considering all the other bugs the device has Nov 09 00:26:26 Jef91: so if you would play with /etc/localtime to pass different time to calendar you could fix it there Nov 09 00:26:35 Jef91: but that's complicated Nov 09 00:26:47 Jef91: but i'm not sure what is your problem Nov 09 00:26:54 jacekowski this is the worst fucking feature EVER. It has the right date for things before this past saturday Nov 09 00:26:59 sidenote that ext4 gives a noticeable performance improvement Nov 09 00:27:08 All the dates after this saturday are an hour too soon Nov 09 00:27:18 Jef91: that shouldn't happen Nov 09 00:27:32 cehteh: thats why i gave it a shot :) Nov 09 00:27:50 i can't really imagine how it could be broken Nov 09 00:28:06 anyway, steps I've performed: compile kernel with ext4 support, cp -a /home/* to microsd ext3 partition, edited genfstab.awk and rcS-late to use new partition as home, reboot, mkfs.ext4 emmc partition, cp -a files back, reverted changed rcS-late and genfstab.awk, reboot Nov 09 00:28:09 every libc implementation does it correctly Nov 09 00:28:19 jacekowski It happened back with PR1.0 as well - last march when the time changed Nov 09 00:28:48 ~blame nokia Nov 09 00:28:49 * infobot blames nokia (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Nov 09 00:28:50 what does it mean if the LED flashes ... blue? Nov 09 00:28:53 never saw this before. Nov 09 00:29:01 chx: message Nov 09 00:29:04 chx, aliens have come to visit you Nov 09 00:29:11 Message????? Nov 09 00:29:14 You mean, SMS? Nov 09 00:29:17 yes Nov 09 00:29:18 * chx is shocked Nov 09 00:29:22 does it flash _any other color other than blue_ at all, when not charging? Nov 09 00:29:22 or im Nov 09 00:29:24 noone knows this number Nov 09 00:29:25 or email Nov 09 00:29:25 not even me. Nov 09 00:29:29 Obviously chx doesn't get a lot of contact from the outside Nov 09 00:29:32 :p Nov 09 00:29:36 indeed. Nov 09 00:29:38 chx: marketing probably Nov 09 00:29:57 oh yes. Wind Mobile wants me to pay. Nov 09 00:30:02 silly them. Nov 09 00:30:26 chx: it could be a googletalk message Nov 09 00:30:31 or a jabber message Nov 09 00:30:36 or a skype message... Nov 09 00:30:42 right, right Nov 09 00:30:48 not with the default configuration Nov 09 00:30:55 which for some reason disables leds for IM... Nov 09 00:30:57 and email. Nov 09 00:30:58 chx: money makes the world go round (or so they say) Nov 09 00:31:06 Another lame question, can i get rid of the icons in the menu i do not need? Nov 09 00:31:10 javispedro: too expensive on battery? :) Nov 09 00:31:22 chx: you could use catorize Nov 09 00:31:22 andax: yeah but i do not pay my phone bills, there is an office manager for that. Nov 09 00:31:26 timeless_webchat: might be an actual reason Nov 09 00:31:36 chx: apmefo Nov 09 00:31:52 apmefo says "create subfolders" Nov 09 00:31:54 i saw that Nov 09 00:32:08 that does not sound like a menu eidtor to me? Nov 09 00:32:10 then you can create subfolder "useless shit" Nov 09 00:32:27 and drop your stuff there Nov 09 00:32:34 * timeless_webchat would call it ',' instead of that, but :) Nov 09 00:33:07 that's what makes us different Nov 09 00:33:13 and other stuff as well Nov 09 00:33:14 chx: ~ # apt-get install office-manager o_O Nov 09 00:33:22 LOL Nov 09 00:33:55 btw is it just me or witter eats battery for breakfast? Nov 09 00:34:11 ^ great timing lolloo :) Nov 09 00:34:12 chx: try gps at the same time Nov 09 00:34:26 chx: you can probably drain battery in less than 45 minutes Nov 09 00:34:26 hey andax! Nov 09 00:34:37 hey all! Nov 09 00:34:41 jacekowski: lol Nov 09 00:34:45 hey lolloo :-) Nov 09 00:35:00 45 minutes?? red hot Nov 09 00:35:04 I got meego runing on my phone! Nov 09 00:35:06 gps + internet + little bit of OC Nov 09 00:35:12 but terribly slow! Nov 09 00:35:13 and it's gone Nov 09 00:35:56 fmtxd uses a bit as well Nov 09 00:36:18 I hear that N9 will be using MeeGo! Nov 09 00:36:25 yep Nov 09 00:36:29 maemo is abandoned Nov 09 00:36:38 but I dont like the design of the phone! Nov 09 00:36:45 n900 was first and last phone with maemo Nov 09 00:36:50 maemo is great in my thoughts! Nov 09 00:37:14 Fuck me Nov 09 00:37:17 i would really like to see a phone with SAW screen Nov 09 00:37:22 I'm just going to go die in a coffin Nov 09 00:37:24 Excuse me Nov 09 00:37:26 jacekowski: next probably has a adobe/microsoft OS Nov 09 00:37:35 lol @ Termana Nov 09 00:38:11 is there any apps that benifit from QT? Nov 09 00:38:24 on N900 I mean. Nov 09 00:38:44 there are a few, i saw a QT Web twitter app Nov 09 00:38:45 other than all the benefits of Qt, no Nov 09 00:39:27 my apps on maemo use qt Nov 09 00:39:30 all of them Nov 09 00:39:34 wow Nov 09 00:39:45 How so? Nov 09 00:39:50 (meaning, all the ones I wrote) Nov 09 00:39:58 tripzero: I was gonna say ;) Nov 09 00:39:58 ooooh installing this app caused it to reread the menu file i edited in xterm. Nov 09 00:40:00 WIN. Nov 09 00:40:17 alterego, well yanno... i rewrote hildon and stuff Nov 09 00:40:18 hehehe Nov 09 00:40:20 All of the apps I've wrote/write are in Qt too .. Nov 09 00:40:22 in QML!!!eleven11 Nov 09 00:40:25 That need a UI that is. Nov 09 00:40:37 wow aseosme Nov 09 00:40:50 would you kindly share? Nov 09 00:41:00 My apps? Nov 09 00:41:03 Nope :P Nov 09 00:41:07 hehehe Nov 09 00:41:19 wait someone ported stratagus to maemo? Nov 09 00:41:21 Well, one is in extras, the others are wip Nov 09 00:41:35 extras-devel ftw Nov 09 00:41:59 Everything is on extras-devel Nov 09 00:42:07 * lolloo checking Nov 09 00:42:08 Your mum is on extras-devel Nov 09 00:42:11 Is there a Civilization clone? Nov 09 00:42:15 Popolous? Nov 09 00:42:15 Termana, beat me to it! Nov 09 00:42:15 hehehe old joke! Nov 09 00:42:27 * chx is very old fashioned game wise. Nov 09 00:42:33 simply put... dosbox??? Nov 09 00:42:40 but what's a 'mum'? Nov 09 00:42:42 chx: freeciv Nov 09 00:42:47 someone ported Extras-devel to Maemo. But then he died in a coffin. Nov 09 00:42:53 hey, i was kidding with dosbox. Nov 09 00:43:01 o_O Nov 09 00:43:05 ha! Nov 09 00:43:17 that's... that's... Nov 09 00:43:19 hm didnt i see a bochs `somewhere'? Nov 09 00:43:36 nox-, yeah bochs is in there Nov 09 00:43:39 but bochs is slow Nov 09 00:43:40 (not that it will be fast but... :) Nov 09 00:43:43 yeah Nov 09 00:43:49 did someone port Windows 7 for kicks? Nov 09 00:43:52 when will they fix portiat mode in N900! Nov 09 00:44:03 dosbox needs a x86 cpu Nov 09 00:44:03 its hurting my sole! Nov 09 00:44:10 nox-, qemu is much better, too bad no one has compiled it directly for Maemo though. Usable in a chroot though :p Nov 09 00:44:13 lolloo, it is fixed... in meego Nov 09 00:44:26 nox-: http://maemo.org/packages/view/dosbox/ Nov 09 00:44:29 your correct tripzero Nov 09 00:44:40 nox-: it looks like it doesnt. Nov 09 00:44:41 just kind of wished on Maemo too! Nov 09 00:44:46 also, it's really easy for apps to switch back and forth between potrait and landscape in maemo Nov 09 00:44:51 chx: i tried freeciv, works on n900 but is a bit complcated compared to playing on the desktop.. Nov 09 00:44:53 ...using Qt Nov 09 00:44:55 chx, wow Nov 09 00:45:03 apparently not many apps take advantage of it though Nov 09 00:45:04 chx, does that jit like qemu too? Nov 09 00:45:21 nox-: partially. Nov 09 00:45:40 i've had the homescreen get stuck in portrait mode once. total b0rkage Nov 09 00:46:03 Hello! Does anyone knows if it's possible to make calls from my computer though my n900. Using the computers headphones and mic to talk Nov 09 00:46:07 yes tripzero Nov 09 00:46:16 it happened to me all the time Nov 09 00:46:31 chx: recommend to use smallest map (turns are getting slow in the end and the screen size is rather small for such game) Nov 09 00:46:41 too good to be true! Nov 09 00:47:10 Nirtal, look at ssh and the dbus-send commands for making calls Nov 09 00:47:48 ok Nov 09 00:47:51 Nirtal, in other words, yes, it is possible Nov 09 00:47:54 Nirtal: something like skype? Nov 09 00:48:05 thanks for the hint about the easy-debian swapon .. that works, having 2 swaps with equal priority now .. lets see how this works Nov 09 00:48:12 Nirtal, however, you may end up needing to use bluetooth headphones/mic Nov 09 00:48:19 yes, but with my telephone :P Nov 09 00:48:51 I got bluetooth on my computer Nov 09 00:49:20 cehteh: you'll cry Nov 09 00:49:27 you want to configure bluez to use connect hsp/hfp to the phone Nov 09 00:49:28 Heh Nov 09 00:49:29 lets see Nov 09 00:49:39 And while I'm home, I wan't to use my headphones and microphone in my computer to talk in the phone Nov 09 00:49:44 * javispedro agrees you'll end up crying Nov 09 00:49:54 cat /proc/swaps Nov 09 00:49:54 Filename Type Size Used Priority Nov 09 00:49:54 /dev/mmcblk0p3 partition 786424 66140 1 Nov 09 00:50:09 /media/mmc1/.swap file 262136 141252 1 Nov 09 00:50:10 Nirtal, ^^ see my last comment if you missed it Nov 09 00:50:23 Didn't miss :P Nov 09 00:50:53 lets start fennec :) Nov 09 00:51:11 Nirtal, also check out ofono Nov 09 00:51:27 you can use ofono on your computer and use the n900 as a mode (hfp bluetooth profile) Nov 09 00:51:38 s/mode/modem/ Nov 09 00:51:38 tripzero meant: you can use ofono on your computer and use the n900 as a modem (hfp bluetooth profile) Nov 09 00:52:01 that's actually probably the easiest way Nov 09 00:52:06 ok Nov 09 00:52:07 thnx Nov 09 00:52:14 ofono.org Nov 09 00:52:20 That's cool. Nov 09 00:52:22 aren't you completely overcomplicating stuff Nov 09 00:52:40 * DocScrutinizer feels headache coming Nov 09 00:52:45 btw, how do I display all files some package installed? Nov 09 00:52:46 I wanted to do the same yesterday .. Nov 09 00:53:01 (Use laptop as speaker phone for N900) Nov 09 00:53:26 I think I already said this but... I clicked on "Use my laptop as speakers for my phone" on Windows 7 and it all worked. Nov 09 00:53:36 It also has a textbox for dialing numbers. Nov 09 00:53:50 so, the N900 is not a weird phone in this regard. Nov 09 00:53:56 no need for ofono. Nov 09 00:53:56 oh, i assumed he meant linux desktop Nov 09 00:54:10 not windows... Nov 09 00:54:21 cuz i forget that people still actually use windows Nov 09 00:54:25 like javispedro Nov 09 00:54:42 * tripzero hides Nov 09 00:54:47 hehe Nov 09 00:54:51 even on linux desktop, just by connecting it via usb you can already hook to pnatd and start sending ATDT commands. Nov 09 00:55:09 (what do you think ofono does???) Nov 09 00:55:12 javispedro, yep, just cat the right ATDT commands and "win" Nov 09 00:55:28 javispedro, setting up the bluetooth connection to hsp? Nov 09 00:55:33 err hfp? Nov 09 00:55:33 HM original Warcraft II CD and Battle.net edition does not work?? Nov 09 00:55:50 tripzero: why ofono should do that? it's supposed to be a gsm stack, not a bt stack. Nov 09 00:55:59 javispedro, it does both Nov 09 00:56:05 it uses bluez Nov 09 00:56:10 for hfp modems Nov 09 00:56:22 *COUGH* Nov 09 00:56:26 this makes no sense. Nov 09 00:56:33 (ouch, that headache) Nov 09 00:57:11 http://ofono.org/wiki/hands-free-profile Nov 09 00:58:20 \o/ freed up 6.6GB on my PC /home, by tgz'ing a folder called Openmoko/images to a dusty partition labeled with a weird "D" Nov 09 00:59:44 tripzero how can I see what files bluez installed? Nov 09 00:59:45 pft.http://padovan.org/blog/2010/02/handsfree-profile-into-bluez-and-ofono/ Nov 09 00:59:54 tripzero: I'd envision sth like: BT-HFP<->ofono<->modem Nov 09 01:00:50 rather than ofono<->BT-HFP<->modem Nov 09 01:01:04 well, it's actually probably: ofono -> bluez/HFP -> n900 Nov 09 01:01:16 o.O Nov 09 01:01:16 ofono just sees the hfp phone as another "modem" Nov 09 01:01:36 (yay, that headache geting worse every minute) Nov 09 01:02:21 * DocScrutinizer mubles 27b/6 27b/6 Nov 09 01:02:34 Ah, nice that coffee has kicked in. Nov 09 01:02:43 COFFFEEEEE! Nov 09 01:02:54 getting rid of pulseaudio is going to become harder every day. Nov 09 01:03:21 am building maemo on a coffee machine Nov 09 01:03:27 hehehe Nov 09 01:03:38 it's like trying to get rid of hepa-C Nov 09 01:03:45 hahaahaaaa Nov 09 01:06:17 openoffice on the n900 has some wtf factor :P Nov 09 01:06:33 its pure amazing cehteh Nov 09 01:06:49 i am surprised that it works .. Nov 09 01:06:51 what the hell is going on on #meego Nov 09 01:06:54 I gotta try the megoo chroot on the n900 :D Nov 09 01:07:05 s/megoo/meego/ Nov 09 01:07:06 merlin_1991 meant: I gotta try the meego chroot on the n900 :D Nov 09 01:08:31 fasten seat belts please, starting iceweasel Nov 09 01:08:34 cehteh: start and close. then swapoff your swapfile, and do again. time both Nov 09 01:08:48 DocScrutinizer: useless benchmark Nov 09 01:08:55 hahah Nov 09 01:09:16 javispedro: you mean I should get my coffee prepared first? Nov 09 01:09:24 DocScrutinizer: didnt you once saied that emmc and uSD are on different busses and thus may scale/interleave a bit better? Nov 09 01:09:36 DocScrutinizer: that would work :) but I was telling because second run will be inevatibly faster Nov 09 01:09:43 * javispedro needs coffee too. Nov 09 01:09:50 s/regex// Nov 09 01:09:53 DocScrutinizer: at least i dont notice it slower now .. Nov 09 01:10:07 just manually added that swap, nothing persistent yet Nov 09 01:10:11 Been getting a lot of segfaults recently. Nov 09 01:10:20 I must be losing the ability to code or something :/ Nov 09 01:10:38 not adjusted to the ballmer peak? Nov 09 01:10:50 Oh, that was just an infinite recursion. Nov 09 01:11:03 (caused by a search/replace gone haywire) ^.^ Nov 09 01:11:08 * cehteh hands alterego an trampoline Nov 09 01:12:11 ok closing iceweasel makes my device lag .. but i didnt tied that with normal swap before :P Nov 09 01:12:18 * DocScrutinizer waits for coffee to kick in, and enlightenment come down Nov 09 01:12:30 why is second call faster? Nov 09 01:12:39 * merlin_1991 wonders if the guys in here ever sleep Nov 09 01:12:41 except for buffers maybe Nov 09 01:12:46 second call? Nov 09 01:12:47 merlin_1991: nah Nov 09 01:13:03 ah that Nov 09 01:13:11 DocScrutinizer: that would work :) but I was telling because second run will be inevatibly faster Nov 09 01:13:11 yes but there is drop_caches Nov 09 01:13:18 DocScrutinizer: buffers, frames will have been evicted to swap partition Nov 09 01:13:29 etc. Nov 09 01:13:35 and well with only 256MB true ram, there isnt really any ram wasted for buffers :P Nov 09 01:13:37 (OUCH that headache!!) Nov 09 01:13:56 cehteh: serioussssslyyyy if it seems too low for you, you should try a n810. Nov 09 01:13:57 you don't tell me friggin OS will swap out buffers, do you? Nov 09 01:14:23 DocScrutinizer: no, but it will keep fresh, free RAM ready by the second run time Nov 09 01:14:50 javispedro: echo 3 >/proc/vm/drop_caches case fixed Nov 09 01:14:58 cehteh: it's not only about buffers Nov 09 01:15:10 you should also kill both swap partitions Nov 09 01:15:15 but that would also be cheating Nov 09 01:15:23 well possibly you can do the whole testing with a reboot, but that isnt really an use case Nov 09 01:15:44 because a) h-d would kill preloaded apps, b) the swap would be free which on the n900 means swapouts will go faster Nov 09 01:15:49 long time behaviour under one or 2 swap files would be the point Nov 09 01:15:58 I'm not interested in usecases. I want to know if swapping got faster Nov 09 01:16:11 and *how much* Nov 09 01:16:21 DocScrutinizer: i am not interested in that :) .. Nov 09 01:16:33 because the answer is "it didn't" Nov 09 01:16:39 yes Nov 09 01:16:52 is there a music id program for maemo? Nov 09 01:17:09 DocScrutinizer: you can raid0 and see .. actually with the power kernel and loopback devices i can do a small test .. Nov 09 01:17:24 I'd expect even with dedicated busses/IFs there's a mutual lock for access to eMMC and uSD Nov 09 01:17:29 I was envious when an iphone user started playing a song from his phone after exposing it to a ~4sec clip of that song about 30seconds prior Nov 09 01:17:33 loopback devices on files on each .. raid0 that and then dd test it Nov 09 01:18:06 DocScrutinizer: yeah can test that with this setup, that takes only a few minutes to setup moment Nov 09 01:18:33 cehteh: this is not a PC. Nov 09 01:18:52 internetishard: As I understand it, that's server based. Nov 09 01:19:00 internetishard: It uploads a clip to a server Nov 09 01:19:04 javispedro: but its still linux Nov 09 01:19:21 we got even a DMA for transfering blocks from IF to RAM, but I guess it's not a per-IF DMA Nov 09 01:19:34 on a PC, a hdd controller using a few unneeded museconds of host cpu time would be frowned upon Nov 09 01:19:35 and I dunno id it's at all used for this Nov 09 01:19:42 just found instictiv, maybe that will work, SpeedEvil Nov 09 01:19:45 DocScrutinizer: i am already testing .. wait a minute Nov 09 01:19:46 on embedded, it is the rule as long as it saves battery. Nov 09 01:19:58 (or more .. writing a 1gb file :P) Nov 09 01:20:35 DocScrutinizer: you get much higher bandwidth dd'ng from both mmc and sd at once Nov 09 01:20:49 DocScrutinizer: closely approaching the uncontended limit Nov 09 01:20:52 SpeedEvil: sounds nice Nov 09 01:21:00 ah ok stopping my tests then Nov 09 01:21:07 That's for read Nov 09 01:21:17 I don't think I tested write Nov 09 01:21:35 ok lemme test write .. bah Nov 09 01:22:37 ~troll Nov 09 01:22:38 extra, extra, read all about it, troll is webossucks Nov 09 01:22:40 hm... Nov 09 01:22:55 DocScrutinizer: btw writing full speed gives slight dropouts while hearing netradio .. less dramatic than 1.2 Nov 09 01:22:57 o.O Nov 09 01:23:31 ~troll javispedro Nov 09 01:23:31 * infobot hereby declares javispedro a troll Nov 09 01:24:09 there needs to be a way to set per-channel fact-lets on infobot Nov 09 01:24:23 ~troll himself Nov 09 01:24:23 * infobot hereby declares himself a troll Nov 09 01:24:31 s/fact-lets/factlets Nov 09 01:24:32 err, herself Nov 09 01:24:41 Is instinctiv the best song identification app for maemo? Nov 09 01:24:56 writing to uSD gives more dramatic dropouts Nov 09 01:25:10 javispedro: there is, but you need to talk tim riker into enabling it for your channel Nov 09 01:25:21 uSD probably has less predictable latency Nov 09 01:25:24 I got it for #openmoko and *-cdevel Nov 09 01:25:46 i mean my device is blocked now :P Nov 09 01:25:58 grr :) Nov 09 01:26:07 cehteh: that's what I meant Nov 09 01:26:19 DocScrutinizer: does it create an entirely separate database? or is it a per-factlet setting? Nov 09 01:26:26 yeah .. unfortunally dd has no --bwlimit :P Nov 09 01:26:44 there's some ugly nasty bug somewhere, killing device on concurrent IO on both uSD and emmc Nov 09 01:26:53 DocScrutinizer: i could even suspect some bug which sends the kernel out for lunch Nov 09 01:27:00 yep Nov 09 01:27:03 it has nothing to do with bandwidth Nov 09 01:27:03 .oO(probably not a bug...) Nov 09 01:27:19 but a plain limitation. Nov 09 01:27:21 ok i declare this kernel as dead Nov 09 01:27:35 if the kernel hangs its a bug Nov 09 01:27:41 javispedro: if it were no bug, then device would recover *eventually* Nov 09 01:27:54 there you have. cehteh just answered DocScrutinizer's question about PR1.3 cp big_stuff /sd Nov 09 01:28:02 yeas Nov 09 01:28:05 yes Nov 09 01:28:10 nah ... eventually it came back!! Nov 09 01:28:21 that's what I meant by that's what I meant Nov 09 01:28:33 I'm quite sure the kernel doesn't hang. just enters swap hell. Nov 09 01:28:44 o.O Nov 09 01:29:30 still a bug Nov 09 01:29:31 in swap hell a thousand daemons will keep him busy for eternity allocating memory! Nov 09 01:29:42 not swap hell didnt swapped much Nov 09 01:30:15 doesn't matter. even if it just tried to swap a bit, which it probably did. Nov 09 01:30:33 I'd play with different io schedulers. Nov 09 01:30:35 is there mdadm packages .. /me tries Nov 09 01:30:42 javispedro: on ass rage mode, cp uSD emmc even raped my desktop CPU with wchan 100 Nov 09 01:30:43 damn no Nov 09 01:37:32 mhn now i need a female:female dongle to try out hostmode ... :] Nov 09 01:37:56 no electronics shop open at night :P Nov 09 01:37:59 I got one when I got my N810 all those many many months ago. Nov 09 01:38:09 haha Nov 09 01:38:12 Actually, it was probably the N800 Nov 09 01:39:07 must D+/D- be crossed? Nov 09 01:39:26 DocScrutinizer? Nov 09 01:39:36 err Nov 09 01:39:52 i can solder, but i dont know usb specs :) Nov 09 01:39:57 Heh Nov 09 01:40:11 cehteh: I'd guess no Nov 09 01:40:12 not a single bit :P Nov 09 01:40:14 ok Nov 09 01:40:19 Mine doesn't. Nov 09 01:40:47 see wiki.openmoko.org/specialized_usb_cables or similar Nov 09 01:40:57 i am too old .. with such hack i am always thinking about a null-modem Nov 09 01:41:39 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Specialized_USB_cables Nov 09 01:41:47 hell ya .. there was once this guy who made an adapter for PC hard drives for his Atari .. which had the opposite endianess Nov 09 01:41:55 just by flipping the cable :) Nov 09 01:43:12 Heh Nov 09 01:44:25 endianess correction in hardware .. today someone would start with some FPGA :P Nov 09 01:44:56 haha Nov 09 01:46:21 Weird, I wonder why nothing seems to be working now. Nov 09 01:46:38 My app wont even initialize the GPS hardware anymore :( Nov 09 01:46:42 * nox- was an atari user too back in the days (anyone remember MiNT?) - they had something called acsi (iirc), which could be interfaced to scsi easily enough (i had a 240 M quantum scsi disk in an atari) Nov 09 01:48:46 tripzero still here? Nov 09 01:48:47 This is quite frustrating. Nov 09 01:48:52 alterego: C/C++? Nov 09 01:48:59 Qt/C++ Nov 09 01:49:29 Nirtal, yeh Nov 09 01:49:33 for a few seconds Nov 09 01:50:19 isn't bluez default bluetooth program in maemo 5 n900? Nov 09 01:50:23 alterego: http://lumiera.org/nobug_manual.html (okok Qt has its own stuff for that iirc) Nov 09 01:50:40 Nirtal, yeha Nov 09 01:51:04 qt isnt really C++ anymore :P Nov 09 01:51:16 Qt has extended C++ Nov 09 01:51:23 You mean like i should do something like this, use bluez on my phone as a hfp modem/server and then use ofone on my pc to connect to my hfp? Nov 09 01:52:11 cehteh: the problem is actually in qt mobility I believe. Nov 09 01:52:16 Nirtal, pair your phone up with your computer. install ofono. use ofono scripts to make phonecalls. profit! Nov 09 01:52:45 Nirtal, in short: http://ofono.org/wiki/hands-free-profile Nov 09 01:52:53 alterego: no idea, this was just a nice place to put an ad :) Nov 09 01:52:59 Hewh Nov 09 01:53:07 ok, couldn't see any ofone things for windows directly. no precompiled? Nov 09 01:53:17 oh, you are using windows? Nov 09 01:53:20 doh! Nov 09 01:53:22 alterego: i have experience this problem with qtmobility/libqtm-location Nov 09 01:53:26 experienced Nov 09 01:53:30 Nirtal, win7? Nov 09 01:53:35 you're not alone :P Nov 09 01:53:36 yes Nov 09 01:53:44 if so, talk to jacekowski about just making it work Nov 09 01:53:56 he apparently has done it Nov 09 01:53:58 gtg Nov 09 01:54:01 ok Nov 09 01:54:04 n8 Nov 09 01:54:05 thnx for the help Trewas Nov 09 01:54:08 tripzero Nov 09 01:55:02 jacekowski are you here? Nov 09 01:55:40 ieatlint: yeah, I remember someone telling me, I guess it was probably you. Nov 09 01:55:44 ieatlint: did you get a fix? Nov 09 01:56:48 hm. can I make my N900 connect to the Internet via Bluetooth over my other phone? I guess I want the N900 to do DUN with my other phone... Nov 09 01:57:14 Muelli: yes you can. Nov 09 01:57:28 There's a bluetooth DUN package in extras Nov 09 01:58:12 alterego: nice. I've installed that. How do I use it? *blush* I don't see anything in Settings nor a new application Nov 09 01:58:15 alterego: nope :( Nov 09 01:58:33 Nirtal: check backscroll/irc-chanlog Nov 09 01:58:40 Muelli: just turn bluetooth on Nov 09 01:59:06 alterego: nah. I don't want my N900 to provide DUN. I want to make it *use* DUN from my *other* phone :) Nov 09 01:59:11 although i can say that the test application i wrote to try and figure wtf is going on has much better reliability than my app where i tried to actually use the data Nov 09 01:59:29 Muelli: oh, then you don't need to install bluetooth dun .. Nov 09 01:59:38 Muelli: the N900 can do it by default. Nov 09 02:00:27 alterego: olry?! I thought I had looked everywhere. I haven't a GUI for that yet. Is there any? If so, could me point me to it? Nov 09 02:00:40 Muelli: Settings->Internet Connections->Connections->New Nov 09 02:00:43 DocScrutinizer any specific word I can search to find? Nov 09 02:00:43 i know my N810 can... And I guess the Linux on the N900 is well capable of doing that. Nov 09 02:01:29 alterego: that fires up the WLAN wizard. In the second page, I can't select anything else than "WLAN" Nov 09 02:01:32 Hrm, I might be wrong .. Nov 09 02:01:38 Muelli: yeah, just noticed that. Nov 09 02:01:40 [2010-11-09 01:47:47] I think I already said this but... I clicked on "Use my laptop as speakers for my phone" on Windows 7 and it all worked. Nov 09 02:01:40 : Nov 09 02:01:44 :( Nov 09 02:01:49 Sorry, I was obviously mistaken. Nov 09 02:02:03 [2010-11-09 01:47:56] It also has a textbox for dialing numbers. Nov 09 02:03:01 ... and it all started by right clicking the bluetooth icon on the notification area. Nov 09 02:04:04 alterego: people apparently have tried that: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=434448&postcount=3 :) Lemme see what I can get from that. Nov 09 02:04:25 DocScrutinizer: yeah, I don't use W7 :P Nov 09 02:04:47 Muelli: good find. Nov 09 02:05:05 Muelli: there's a bluetooth-dun package in extras Nov 09 02:06:04 javispedro: he's doing the opposite, he wants the N900 to use another bluetooth modem Nov 09 02:06:33 ah. Nov 09 02:06:55 probably broken since fremantle.. Nov 09 02:07:16 More likely disabled .. Nov 09 02:07:36 ug Nov 09 02:07:42 instinctiv doesn't recognize shit Nov 09 02:07:43 http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_DUN Nov 09 02:09:24 DocScrutinizer: again, it's the opposite, he wants the N900 to use another devices DUN service ... Nov 09 02:09:27 -_- Nov 09 02:09:29 DocScrutinizer: It describes very well how it works on the N810, but not on N900 ;-) Nov 09 02:09:40 if the N900 is not equipped with a data SIM, it may use another GSM/3G phone as a modem to access the network, and act as a Bluetooth DUN client Nov 09 02:09:48 Nov 09 02:09:59 You have to take the SIM out to enable that? Nov 09 02:10:02 :/ Nov 09 02:10:10 haha Nov 09 02:10:51 nah. I don't buy that. What is a "data SIM" anyway..? It just reads "it may". Which is big euphemism ;-) Of course it "may", if you configure rfcomm, ppp and friends ;-) Nov 09 02:11:06 Muelli: agreed ;) Nov 09 02:11:48 wtf? Nov 09 02:12:49 would you please try if N8x0 method to tether a phone to NIT also works on N900/fremantle. Rather than doing linguistic dissect Nov 09 02:13:01 DocScrutinizer: we've been through this. Nov 09 02:13:09 There is no option other than wifi Nov 09 02:13:12 duh, aha Nov 09 02:13:31 If you'd paid attention you would have known this :P Nov 09 02:13:34 you're sure you paired the device prior to that? Nov 09 02:13:36 wtf? Would you read what's been posted twice or thrice by now? ;-) Nov 09 02:13:40 DocScrutinizer: twice ;-) Nov 09 02:13:43 I have a paired a device. Nov 09 02:13:52 Which has DUN yes :P Nov 09 02:13:56 javispedro have you succeded in making calls from you computer though the phone? Nov 09 02:14:34 yes... Nov 09 02:15:08 however, a few days ago someone said here that pr1.3 broke his headset Nov 09 02:15:13 so, ymmv Nov 09 02:16:11 :-O Nov 09 02:16:29 javispedro how did you do? Nov 09 02:16:57 How did you conf you n900, and how did you conf you computer? Nov 09 02:17:15 hello Nov 09 02:17:21 javispedro: ...broke his headset?? how is that? and ...related to "making calls from you computer" Nov 09 02:17:36 On the N900 I had bluetooth-dun; on the desktop I used win7. Nov 09 02:17:56 DocScrutinizer: because I guess there's a hidden "with audio coming through desktop spekears" assupmtion there. Nov 09 02:18:16 omg.. avatar collecters edition? Nov 09 02:18:22 seriously? Nov 09 02:18:38 it is reasons like that... that people pirate movies :) Nov 09 02:18:51 javispedro do you have anything moore then windows 7 Nov 09 02:18:52 ? Nov 09 02:19:07 some program to handle it all? Nov 09 02:19:12 Nirtal: ah Nov 09 02:19:34 Nirtal: broadcom stack? not sure, OEM crap. Either way I was using windows client. Nov 09 02:21:01 ok, I install bluetooth-dun. what's the next step? Nov 09 02:22:41 try it? Nov 09 02:23:04 I always tell that story because I didn't have to do a thing. It just worked. Nov 09 02:23:45 In fact I was booting windows because I wanted to test garminchatd (aka my little program that makes n900 talk garmin protocol) Nov 09 02:24:20 and while setting up the serial port profile I noticed the many options on the device page and started testing them. Nov 09 02:25:09 Heh Nov 09 02:32:40 Right, I think it's time for bed now. Nov 09 02:32:42 g'night folks. Nov 09 02:33:09 good night alterego **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 09 02:59:57 2010