**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 12 02:59:57 2010 Nov 12 03:00:30 hmm, apparently voice nav exists for the n900, in the form of sygic's app Nov 12 03:00:41 and supposedly mappero does it too, but i haven't figured out how yet Nov 12 03:21:16 hm Nov 12 03:21:24 is gftp still broken? Nov 12 03:21:43 anybody know a good X ftp client w sftp support? Nov 12 03:21:49 or ncurses one? Nov 12 03:22:19 no i dont Nov 12 03:22:37 no i dont Nov 12 03:22:40 sorry* Nov 12 03:22:41 hm. let me see if gftp is better Nov 12 03:22:52 has been a while since i tried Nov 12 03:27:04 Macer: i like ncftp in console (ncurses) Nov 12 03:27:32 in fact, i like ncftp over any other ftp client Nov 12 03:33:48 ncftp is good Nov 12 04:00:29 hmm, my flashplayer crashed, wonderful \o/ Nov 12 04:06:12 Gotta love support articles about troubleshooting why an application isn't starting that describe finding the relevant logfiles by using the application Nov 12 04:27:24 good morning Nov 12 04:33:28 hm Nov 12 04:33:34 gftp still sucks Nov 12 04:33:55 well... not really but you cant double click to go into dirs or hit enter to do it Nov 12 04:33:59 lame Nov 12 04:34:16 i wish there were an ncftp for maemo with sftp Nov 12 04:36:13 wonder if there is a samba supporting filemanager Nov 12 04:39:22 what about sshfs+normal filemanager? Nov 12 04:40:03 havent tried it Nov 12 04:40:17 but i needed something that didnt require mounting heh Nov 12 04:40:23 why? Nov 12 04:40:39 i could only wonder what chaos would become on disconnected ssh mouns Nov 12 04:40:42 mounts Nov 12 04:40:59 meh Nov 12 04:41:01 i would rather use a client Nov 12 04:41:03 heh Nov 12 04:41:03 they eventually timeout Nov 12 04:41:16 or you can just umount them after the fact Nov 12 04:41:34 ooooor, you can bring them up on demand (with autofuse) and down on network disconnect Nov 12 04:41:46 yeah but at least with a client i know where i stand plus i am sure you can set the timeout/reconnect stuff Nov 12 04:42:03 but no resume for sshfs with the fm ;) Nov 12 04:42:13 enjoy gftp :) Nov 12 04:46:08 gftp totally sucks lol Nov 12 04:46:27 and openssh sftp sucks as a client as well Nov 12 04:46:29 :) Nov 12 04:47:26 no delete in filemanager? Nov 12 04:47:37 or move? lol Nov 12 04:48:13 WAT? Nov 12 04:48:22 I have move and delete ... Nov 12 04:48:44 or we even talking about the same file manager? Nov 12 04:57:17 crashanddie: lol Nov 12 04:57:24 crashanddie: you already got pasted onto wwp Nov 12 04:57:40 crashanddie: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/7-chit-chat/we-manipulated-b-attack-scientology-73519/ Nov 12 05:00:20 need Dwarf Fortress for maemo Nov 12 05:00:43 o noes Nov 12 05:00:58 lol, can't post anonymously on a forum full of "anonymous" Nov 12 05:02:10 oh and whoever posted that is a tool Nov 12 05:06:09 phonephags? I am appalled Nov 12 05:06:12 :P Nov 12 05:06:49 We all have a life beyond #maemo right? Nov 12 05:06:52 ....... right? Nov 12 05:06:53 :P Nov 12 05:08:55 anonymous are noobs anyway, i remember the anti-sci protests from the 90's Nov 12 05:09:07 pretty sure thats what triggered assange into setting up wikileaks too Nov 12 05:10:01 internet retardation Nov 12 05:10:17 It's catching Nov 12 05:10:26 heh Nov 12 05:10:43 heh Nov 12 05:10:52 all the socked anons/channers are turning up Nov 12 05:56:19 is there any change to jump to the desired page in the office-tools (pdf) ? Nov 12 06:15:48 http://www.timdenee.com/oilfurnace/ "Oilfurnace, an illustrated Dwarf Fortress tale" [ things you can do in Dwarf Fortress ] Nov 12 06:22:47 Termana: i do. i'm going to union square tomorrow to test out squid and ettercap on my n900 Nov 12 06:23:02 so that will be away from #maemo Nov 12 06:23:08 though, i might log in while on the move Nov 12 06:23:10 :-P Nov 12 06:26:13 hrm, ettercap is ported? Nov 12 06:27:29 yes, i ported it Nov 12 06:27:40 i also ported squid and libnet Nov 12 06:27:46 they're all in extras-devel Nov 12 06:28:13 chx: squid has transparent proxy support and ssl bump (about to test at least transparent proxy support) Nov 12 06:28:27 chx: ettercap has every feature except passive dns enabled. can't figure out how to get that working yet Nov 12 06:32:10 chx: if you have some sort of problem with it, you can email the maintainer listed on it, and it will come directly to me Nov 12 06:32:48 mmmm nice. Nov 12 06:32:56 although never saw emails on those packags Nov 12 06:33:00 what did i miss? Nov 12 06:33:16 apt-cache show ettercap-ng | grep -i maintainer Nov 12 06:37:39 ahso Nov 12 06:37:48 not on the website.got it. Nov 12 06:38:42 yes, i haven't posted info on my website yet Nov 12 06:38:49 i'm still working on my site Nov 12 06:54:03 hmm, anyone here familiar with gstreamer? Nov 12 06:56:18 damned patchers... Nov 12 06:56:41 did you know that diablo orig.tar.bz is NOT linux-omap-2.6.21? Nov 12 07:02:46 is the patch in debian/patches? Nov 12 07:03:28 Gorroth: diablo kernel has orig.tar.gz + diff.gz patch Nov 12 07:03:46 Gorroth: where diff.gz is 300k Nov 12 07:04:06 Gorroth: but the point is orig.tar.gz is _already_ something patched Nov 12 07:08:42 that's one of the reasons i hate debian packaging. it encourages messing with upstream tarballs. Nov 12 07:11:42 slonopotamus: why should it be linux-omap? Nov 12 07:11:59 It should be the mainline .21 kernel Nov 12 07:15:28 TermanaDesire: because uname says omap-2.6.21? Nov 12 07:17:49 oh, i see what you mean Nov 12 07:18:21 well, i thought the point of the debian packaging and debian/patches (quilt setup) was so you don't mess with upstream tarballs Nov 12 07:18:27 TermanaDesire: okay, orig.tar.gz contains fs/jffs2/respool.c now show me _any_ 2.6.21 that does have it. Nov 12 07:19:57 Gorroth: you do. because you run 1. unpack 2. run dpkg-buildpackage that creates orig.tar.gz Nov 12 07:21:06 yeah. well, i used debian/patches to add my patch for ettercap-ng, and it created the orig (actual orig) and the diff for me Nov 12 07:24:21 Gorroth: that's what i talk about. Nov 12 07:26:28 Hello,Any one here who can help me with usb host mode?The problem is that my usb's led blinks for a moment and then it seems like its dead,retrying the process still gives no blinks until I restart my phone and retry then it blinks again and dies :P Nov 12 07:27:19 so. anyone knows what was used as a base for diablo kernel? Nov 12 07:29:34 knightstalker, what devices have you tried with it? Nov 12 07:29:47 also, my guess: not enough power to run that device Nov 12 07:30:27 johnx,checked the kernel messages,it says something like power too Nov 12 07:30:37 yeah. that's your answer then Nov 12 07:30:38 but its an age old 128mb flash device Nov 12 07:30:48 old ones can be the worst Nov 12 07:31:07 if they don't follow the rules when negotiating for more power, then they'll fail Nov 12 07:31:44 they also might have been lazy when designing the electronics: it might actually draw more power than a newer stick simply because the electronics are inefficient Nov 12 07:33:31 kingmax falied too -.- Nov 12 07:33:44 so, i can get the MobileHotspot app working. it looks like it is doing the exact same thing i was doing when i wrote my own script that configures iptables and all that. Nov 12 07:33:50 but i can't connect to it from any device Nov 12 07:34:35 probably because the stupid thing runs in ad-hoc mode and the drivers and/or hardware don't seem to support master mode Nov 12 07:35:21 hostap capable cards FTW Nov 12 07:36:06 is the n900 capable of running hostapd successfully? Nov 12 07:36:10 if it can, i can package it up Nov 12 07:36:39 hmm, my iMac can see the wifi network. just can't connect to it Nov 12 07:37:09 or... maybe it CAN connect! Nov 12 07:38:27 lol Nov 12 07:41:38 Gorroth, hostapd != hostap module Nov 12 07:43:39 i see Nov 12 07:44:08 well, i can get the iMac connecting, and then i configure the client's IP/netmask/routing correctly, but i can't even ping the n900 Nov 12 07:45:16 a jaw-dropping comic depicting the history of a Dwarf Fortress enclave http://www.timdenee.com/oilfurnace/ Nov 12 07:50:51 h-e-n didn't need kernel flash right? Nov 12 08:00:16 one more time. anyone knows what kernel version is stored in orig.tar.gz of diablo kernel? Nov 12 08:03:32 * slonopotamus hates such moments Nov 12 08:04:26 me too Nov 12 08:12:34 moo, gentlemen Nov 12 08:13:10 m00f RST38h Nov 12 08:30:35 morning Nov 12 08:31:13 Morning crashanddie_ Nov 12 08:35:00 Nope,it doesn't work,not with any flash disks Nov 12 08:35:30 they blink for a second,and then they are dead,they blink on VBUS boost on Nov 12 08:36:09 furthermore,I had very weird stuff with my external HDD,its led was on green all the time after vbust boost on,still couldn't be mounted Nov 12 08:36:53 any ideas? Nov 12 08:37:48 Chocolate dumplings Nov 12 08:37:53 Now there's an idea. Nov 12 08:38:12 w00t w00t :p Nov 12 08:38:33 and can you explain that idea? Nov 12 08:39:26 it's dumplings with chocolate i'd guess Nov 12 08:39:51 maybeWTF, good guess Nov 12 08:39:54 -.- Nov 12 08:40:05 Thats not helpful,any other ideas? Nov 12 08:40:11 knightstalker, ever heard of clootie dumpling? doughboys? Nov 12 08:40:21 no... Nov 12 08:40:31 google iot Nov 12 08:40:32 it Nov 12 08:42:04 is that...relevent? -.- Nov 12 08:42:25 you asked "any ideas" Nov 12 08:42:34 Chocolate dumplings qualify as "any". Nov 12 08:42:42 so I fix 'any ideas about my problem' Nov 12 08:43:02 nope Nov 12 08:43:09 lol Nov 12 08:43:11 let's start from the beginning, what exactly are you attempting to do? Nov 12 08:43:33 connecting my flash to my n900 Nov 12 08:43:54 your "flash"? Nov 12 08:44:06 okay Nov 12 08:44:07 usb flash/cool disk whatever Nov 12 08:44:50 after some investigation, i conclude that diablo kernel orig.tar.gz doesn't have _any_ exact kernel version Nov 12 08:45:38 more than that, it doesn't contain any specific commit from linux(-omap) git. Nov 12 08:46:09 ~curse everyone who modifies upstream tarballs Nov 12 08:46:09 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, everyone who modifies upstream tarballs ! Nov 12 08:46:28 ~usbhost Nov 12 08:46:28 usbhost is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host Nov 12 08:46:48 knightstalker, ok, so how are you going about it? Nov 12 08:48:06 well,I install h-e-n,got female-to-female adapter,connected the adapter to my Nokia usb adapter,opened h-e-n,connected the flash to adapter,clicked vbus boost on Nov 12 08:48:28 could be your adapter asks for too much power Nov 12 08:48:31 It blinked a sec and then stopped,I clicked enumerate,nothing happened,waited 10 seconds and clicked mount Nov 12 08:48:47 you're probably better off using a auxiliary-powered USB hub Nov 12 08:48:59 MohammadAG, bought a 23" 1080p screen for the PS3 Nov 12 08:49:05 MohammadAG, and Cod Black Ops Nov 12 08:49:11 ah... Nov 12 08:49:34 MohammadAG, the story doesn't make any sense, but it looks fucking good. Nov 12 08:50:09 MohammadAG, aiming is a bit swidgy, hard to know when you killed an enemy or not. Sometimes they resuscitate a whole minute after you've shot them Nov 12 08:50:40 Any idea where the builtin IM app keeps it's logs? Nov 12 08:51:18 hmm can't install khweeteur? missing deps? Nov 12 08:51:20 MohammadAG, you start every level/checkpoint with something like 2 billion ammo clips, meaning you could possibly just blast on continuously and not bother about actually hitting anyone. Other than that, jeep/helicopter/boat sequences are heaps of fun. Doesn't beat MW2 in my opinion, though. Nov 12 08:52:02 MohammadAG, if you have the cash to spend, buy it, and sell it once finished. If you're tight on cash, wait 'til someone can lend it to you Nov 12 08:54:13 how much is it? Nov 12 08:54:17 there,I mean Nov 12 08:58:14 Something is wrong here Nov 12 08:58:25 crashanddie: How come I do not see MohammadAG talking, just yourself? Nov 12 08:58:26 MohammadAG: wrt dvd playing with n900. tried bumping cpu freq to reduce framedrop? Nov 12 08:58:33 Weird crap Nov 12 08:59:11 Hmmmm, no /ignores Nov 12 08:59:43 MohammadAG: i see Nov 12 08:59:57 RST38h: Me neither. Nov 12 09:00:27 slono, crash: Folks, are you sure you are not talking into the vacuum? =) Nov 12 09:01:08 MohammadAG: hmm, decoding on pvr? do we have some libs for that? Nov 12 09:02:08 I do not see MohammadAG either,but it doesn't matter :p Nov 12 09:02:13 RST38h: >.> Nov 12 09:02:48 lol Nov 12 09:03:27 MohammadAG: how many frames it drops? Nov 12 09:04:09 MohammadAG: well then, bumping to 1ghz should allow it to play at full speed Nov 12 09:08:28 hmm, should i buy n800 for $90 or not? Nov 12 09:10:42 depends on what you want it for :) Nov 12 09:11:14 for my cruel experiments, of course Nov 12 09:11:29 then, why not? :) Nov 12 09:11:43 slono: if it is brand new, why not Nov 12 09:11:45 not sure what they're going for nowadays though Nov 12 09:11:53 actually i have one already but its screen is kinda... used through by intensive on-screen keyboard usage :) Nov 12 09:11:55 slono: if it is used, skip on it Nov 12 09:12:02 RST38h: http://community.livejournal.com/ru_maemo/103406.html Nov 12 09:12:05 slono: you are talking of that ru_maemo post? Nov 12 09:12:08 Eh :) Nov 12 09:12:08 yep Nov 12 09:12:33 slono: Makes a decent mp3 player / book reader Nov 12 09:13:27 nah, decent book reader is palm m500 for $30 :) Nov 12 09:14:07 too small, screen looks like shit Nov 12 09:15:17 i was using it for about 3 years for everything. programming, messaging (yep, it's kinda tricky to hold palm and phone connected with irda with one hand and type with other) Nov 12 09:15:38 urgh Nov 12 09:15:58 there were not many alternatives in early 200x Nov 12 09:17:04 i would by eink reader if they cost smth reasonable here (~$200, for example) Nov 12 09:17:31 true, but still, m500 sounds uncomfortable Nov 12 09:20:04 * slonopotamus needs to write and article on using inheritance with abstract data types Nov 12 09:27:55 slono: Wwwwhy? Nov 12 09:41:08 RST38h, ping Nov 12 09:47:04 Morning Nov 12 09:48:08 morning khertan_ Nov 12 09:49:25 slonopotamus: the Kindle 3 is kinda nice; not sure whether you can get it where you live Nov 12 09:49:43 * aquatix would have to ask some friends in the UK for example to ship it over to his country Nov 12 09:50:06 morning MohammadAG, still fighting with HAM ? Nov 12 09:50:59 Go germany! "A German judge has shot to popularity after letting 42 speeding drivers off without charges in the last week because he thinks speed controls merely serve to fill the state's coffers rather than prevent accidents." Nov 12 09:52:02 slonopotamus, I need to write a authentication framework proposal Nov 12 09:52:42 khertan_, heh, your way might be the only way, but that's kinda nasty :/ Nov 12 09:53:09 LOL crashanddie_ Nov 12 09:53:46 MohammadAG, you get my very short CoD BO review? Nov 12 09:53:56 nope Nov 12 09:54:23 MohammadAG, exactly ... nasty ... as HAM :) Nov 12 09:55:28 lol good point Nov 12 09:55:59 crashanddie_: for what? Nov 12 09:56:17 slonopotamus, my company's VoIP server Nov 12 09:59:06 going for fag, 'later Nov 12 10:20:41 * Noobmonk3y grumbles Nov 12 10:23:28 * MohammadAG grumbles back Nov 12 10:23:55 ;) Nov 12 10:23:57 can't compile xchat Nov 12 10:24:04 is there anywhere that has an example .desktop file? Nov 12 10:24:47 want to package up Kathy's knitting counter :P Nov 12 10:24:52 your PM window Nov 12 10:24:56 cool Nov 12 10:25:30 Jaffa, pretty strange message you got on Khweeteur about sip version Nov 12 10:27:38 * timeless_mbp switches to Nokia English + Nokia Theme to take some pictures Nov 12 10:31:34 khertan_: Indeed. Stack shows it comes from "from PyQt4 import *" Nov 12 10:33:13 PyQt4 import * ? Nov 12 10:33:35 guys Nov 12 10:33:37 Jaffa, funny as i use it without any problem Nov 12 10:33:51 the sip version thing is a version mismatch Nov 12 10:34:00 someone/something made a version mess there Nov 12 10:34:01 on it Nov 12 10:34:08 ? Nov 12 10:34:11 uh ? Nov 12 10:34:25 sip version ? Nov 12 10:37:06 Jaffa, ? Nov 12 10:37:53 Question mark, ? Nov 12 10:38:44 Question mark C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER! Nov 12 10:43:16 ouch Nov 12 10:45:34 achipa: Ah, cool Nov 12 10:46:15 Hello Nov 12 10:48:05 is there someone who can help me? Got problems with my nokia n900 it wont startup anymore and shows somting about u-boot... Nov 12 10:52:10 fdml: tried meego? and updated power kernel? Nov 12 10:54:35 power kernel update no meego.. Nov 12 10:55:12 ahh ok there's help pages on the forums i think, will go hunt one out Nov 12 10:55:35 no it wont even turn on.. Plz somebody help.. Nov 12 10:55:43 now Nov 12 10:56:12 fdml: something like - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65420 ? Nov 12 10:56:16 now? Nov 12 10:56:18 well, meh Nov 12 10:56:25 back to what i was doing i say :P Nov 12 10:57:01 yes!! that was what i see Nov 12 10:57:14 fdml: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=869654&postcount=4 Nov 12 10:57:24 looks like you just need to flash the stock kernel Nov 12 10:57:56 sh*t ... ok thank ill see if i can... Nov 12 10:57:57 fdml: -> if you are using windows - http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=869673&postcount=6 Nov 12 10:57:59 thanx!! Nov 12 10:58:03 good luck :) Nov 12 10:58:16 shout back here if you have probs, i'm sure someone here has some clever ideas Nov 12 10:58:30 thanks alot Noobmonk3y! Nov 12 11:02:01 has anyone noticed how frals suddenly grew up and got a job, he's to busy stuffing trouts to come in here ;) Nov 12 11:02:17 * frals slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout Nov 12 11:02:21 w0000t Nov 12 11:02:35 hi Nov 12 11:02:39 hi blackthorne Nov 12 11:06:24 fdml, it does turn on, but everything beyond u-boot is shoot. The good part is that u-boot is able to boot an alternate system from SD card. Nov 12 11:07:14 * Noobmonk3y likes having clever people in here Nov 12 11:07:46 ~featurezilla Nov 12 11:08:00 ~,|,, Nov 12 11:10:33 yacc: tried matan's workaround? Nov 12 11:10:51 yacc: did you install powerkernel? Nov 12 11:11:11 chem|st, matan's workaround? and no I did not install the power kernel. Nov 12 11:12:08 yacc: have you got the problem too? Nov 12 11:12:17 Which problem? Nov 12 11:12:25 the not booting one? Nov 12 11:12:27 lol Nov 12 11:12:31 yacc: or are you just repeating fdml? Nov 12 11:12:38 Only problem currently is that the phone has a tendency to have a dead pulseaudio. Nov 12 11:12:39 couldnt tell if you where helping fdml or ^^ as chemist said Nov 12 11:12:53 Noobmonk3y: exactly Nov 12 11:12:59 * Noobmonk3y gets confused easily! Nov 12 11:13:06 Which I'd usually solve with a cronjob to check and start if missing, but this thing has no cron :( Nov 12 11:13:11 * chem|st is lost already Nov 12 11:13:25 Noobmonk3y, I can try to help without having a non-booting phone ;) Nov 12 11:13:38 ?! Nov 12 11:13:47 ^^ Nov 12 11:14:17 it's like watching the tv channel dave - all the repeats in the wrong order Nov 12 11:14:24 Hah Nov 12 11:14:35 "I cannot let you do that, Dave" Nov 12 11:14:53 thanx for everyting everyone but realy got2go work now Nov 12 11:15:08 :) Nov 12 11:15:13 ill try alter if its helps Nov 12 11:15:19 thanx Nov 12 11:39:43 why all the joins and parts and no talk? Nov 12 11:39:48 weird Nov 12 11:39:50 shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Nov 12 11:39:53 ;) Nov 12 11:39:55 is freenode ok? Nov 12 11:40:10 is it ever? ;) Nov 12 11:44:48 shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :! Nov 12 11:45:40 ~pr1.3 Nov 12 11:45:41 i heard pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update Nov 12 11:53:05 hmm, seems like libgphoto & gphoto2 compiled nicely in scratchbox Nov 12 12:06:43 jvesiluoma, libraries usually do -- functioning is something else. Nov 12 12:08:17 hspda+ makes me smile... i'm downloading at 600KBps Nov 12 12:08:43 bytes? Nov 12 12:08:44 Simon McVittie, I know him! ^.^ Nov 12 12:08:51 yes, byes Nov 12 12:08:52 bytes Nov 12 12:09:04 about 4.7mbit Nov 12 12:09:09 neat Nov 12 12:09:25 I've actually been getting 781 kilobyte/s of TCP thruput on 7.2 megabit/s HSPA Nov 12 12:09:35 those are streaming downloads, aren't they? Nov 12 12:09:39 Mine tops out at about 120kbytes Nov 12 12:09:42 2min and 30s for a 102mb file Nov 12 12:09:46 Multiples files/request would be slower, wouldn't it? Nov 12 12:09:58 SwedeMike: nice Nov 12 12:10:02 I've been streaming video quite a lot Nov 12 12:10:04 this is with a single TCP session downloading a file using http. Nov 12 12:10:08 yeah, tmo us here where they tell me it's 7.2mbit Nov 12 12:10:13 but i'm not complaining at 4.7 Nov 12 12:10:46 781 kilobyte/s is pretty much theoretical max, as this was in our lab with so much signal strength there was absolutely no retransmissions between the base station and the terminal. Nov 12 12:11:38 or practical :) Nov 12 12:12:01 and I was alone on the cell. Nov 12 12:12:02 How many phones can go at that speed on a tower? Nov 12 12:12:05 1. Nov 12 12:12:14 per cell, a tower might have multiple cells. Nov 12 12:12:18 yeah Nov 12 12:12:23 and multiple segments Nov 12 12:12:27 realitygaps_away, don't feel obliged to make us aware of your away status. Nov 12 12:12:48 * SpeedEvil is now known as SpeedEvil_farting Nov 12 12:12:50 well, i'm in a major city at 4am Nov 12 12:12:51 realitygaps_away: irc has this "status2 built in, you don't need to change your nick. Nov 12 12:12:56 so i'm hitting pretty ideal Nov 12 12:13:04 i've stopped out around 3.5mbit during daylight hours Nov 12 12:13:54 crashanddie, you aren't tired to fight against all this stupid irc script ? Nov 12 12:14:09 * mgedmin gets the idea of embedding the current time in his nick, to helpfully let people know what time it is Nov 12 12:14:31 * mgedmin wonders how freenode reacts to people who change their nicks too often Nov 12 12:14:35 mgedmin, quite a good idea ... do not forget to include seconds ... Nov 12 12:14:36 * mgedmin decides not to risk it Nov 12 12:14:47 khertan_, nope Nov 12 12:14:53 mgedmin, you ll be kline first time then glined Nov 12 12:14:53 :) Nov 12 12:15:15 no, freenode just doesn't accept the nickchange Nov 12 12:15:26 oh ... nice Nov 12 12:15:36 i prefere the undernet way :) Nov 12 12:15:37 ban ;) Nov 12 12:16:01 undernet's policies are archaic Nov 12 12:16:06 what a grim world we live in, where people can't even change their nicks in peace Nov 12 12:16:15 ok ... gedit is bugged on n900 ... but does the same on desktop ... Nov 12 12:16:36 * khertan_ need a good ftp linux client with a gui ! Nov 12 12:16:38 grrr Nov 12 12:21:50 sorry guys, turning that away status off.... Nov 12 12:22:05 thanks Nov 12 12:22:23 lol Nov 12 12:22:34 np, sorry didnt notice that was happening.... Nov 12 12:22:38 * realitygaps will no longer be away Nov 12 12:29:52 Does hostmode now work with titan's kernel? Nov 12 12:31:09 not yet Nov 12 12:31:38 this is all awesome and stuff, but why does it have to be happening when i'm too busy to break my phone? Nov 12 12:31:41 :) Nov 12 12:42:56 Hi Nov 12 12:43:26 why was this topic deleted by the admin ? Nov 12 12:43:28 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=64451&page=2 Nov 12 12:43:42 there was a simple tutorial on how to install webos Games Nov 12 12:43:45 how dumb Nov 12 12:44:19 is it illegal somewhere? Nov 12 12:44:21 i would have to use c*** word Nov 12 12:44:54 no it's not illegal Nov 12 12:45:04 xDaReaperx: sort of is Nov 12 12:45:09 it was simpler tutorial : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=64822&highlight=Preenv Nov 12 12:45:24 that tutorial above is dumb i wish that was deleted Nov 12 12:45:27 so hard to understand Nov 12 12:45:32 xDaReaperx: but less illegal than my fmtxd mod thats stil there Nov 12 12:45:34 i used to install it in 2 command lines Nov 12 12:47:14 sometimes i hate the talk.maemo.org forums Nov 12 12:47:24 sometimes you like them?! Nov 12 12:47:25 * Robot101 ducks Nov 12 12:47:29 Heh Nov 12 12:47:44 no Nov 12 12:47:51 sometimes i totally hate Nov 12 12:47:59 i never like though Nov 12 12:48:09 I got a "thanks for your help" but he couldn't be arsed to click on the Thanks! button. Nov 12 12:49:21 Guys, it is a forum. Take a deep breath and get on with you life. Surely you got more important things to do? Nov 12 12:49:35 X-Fade, BUT THEY ARE WRONG! Nov 12 12:50:06 yeah i've got to install this web os game Nov 12 12:50:19 and the admin deletes a well tutorialised topic Nov 12 12:50:26 If everybody lurking and posting on these forums would spend 1/10th of the time actually creating something, we would have 50000 apps. Nov 12 12:50:40 xDaReaperx, erhm... I don't agree with you there. Nov 12 12:50:49 xDaReaperx, you are not entitled to anything by using these forums Nov 12 12:51:12 And as far as I know, Maemo.org's policy has always been to not blatantly ignore software piracy -- if there are doubts Nov 12 12:51:14 I'm entitled to getting help Nov 12 12:51:22 no, you're not Nov 12 12:51:26 you're entitled to diddly squat Nov 12 12:51:35 =/ Nov 12 12:51:43 Think I'm going to learn something useful today. Nov 12 12:51:51 How to write Qt documentation .. Nov 12 12:51:53 if you have problems with your device, feel free to ask Nov 12 12:51:56 crashanddie_ is being blunt about it Nov 12 12:52:00 But he is right Nov 12 12:52:19 'course I am Nov 12 12:52:20 This is a community. You're not entitled to anything. Nov 12 12:52:33 i didn't do anything wrong Nov 12 12:52:39 No one said that Nov 12 12:52:54 you made a statement stating it Nov 12 12:52:57 so i thought you did Nov 12 12:53:06 Someone obviously thinks you did something wrong. Nov 12 12:53:18 OR that the post was too dodgy to have on the forum. Nov 12 12:53:24 probably the admin in this IRC Nov 12 12:53:36 I didn't say you did something wrong, I said you're not ENTITLED to help Nov 12 12:53:39 I don't think so :P Nov 12 12:54:00 And if you created a topic that pushed piracy, then yes you did something wrong Nov 12 12:54:04 It's against the forum rules Nov 12 12:54:28 it was just a tutorial , i didn't share anything illegal Nov 12 12:54:31 xDaReaperx, what admin in this IRC? Nov 12 12:54:38 nothing ^ Nov 12 12:54:43 nor did i make that post Nov 12 12:55:02 that's what I thought, won't even stand for his own thoughts. Nov 12 12:55:09 Heh Nov 12 12:55:21 Talk about back peddling. Nov 12 12:55:35 You didn't just back peddling, you turned the bike around and rode the other way Nov 12 12:55:40 peddle* Nov 12 13:03:36 hey, mooo Nov 12 13:03:47 I missed the fun? :-P Nov 12 13:05:34 Oh dear Nov 12 13:05:36 morning DocScrutinizer Nov 12 13:05:39 sure did :p Nov 12 13:06:18 meh, got my own fun with noobs on hostmode :-P Nov 12 13:06:37 DocScrutinizer, I CAN HAZ PR0N ON N900? Nov 12 13:07:14 I was surprised that certain live-streaming websites work just fine on n900. Nov 12 13:07:21 Heh Nov 12 13:07:26 "...but WHY doesn't mount sda1 work?? this is a *normal* memstick with 5 partitions!!" Nov 12 13:09:43 Hmm Nov 12 13:09:49 Paul and me trying to help MohammadAG out of that hell, by posting about hostmode is unrelated to mounting devices at large. Seems it starts to help - slowly but does Nov 12 13:10:13 Is there anyone who knows how open/closed the Ovi Maps API is? Nov 12 13:10:14 * mgedmin is confused Nov 12 13:10:24 isn't hostmode a prerequisite for mounting devices? Nov 12 13:10:37 isn't charging battery as well? Nov 12 13:11:20 or mamanging you bank account so you even can *buy* a device :-P Nov 12 13:11:27 managing* Nov 12 13:11:42 so you can't say these things are unrelated ;) Nov 12 13:11:52 nevertheless you wouldn't expect your online banking deal with device mounting, would you? Nov 12 13:12:00 maybe "necessary but not sufficient" Nov 12 13:12:22 help! I cannot mount a usb flash card on my n900 because I don't have money to buy a n900! can someone send me one for free? kthxbye Nov 12 13:12:42 mgedmin: please provide address Nov 12 13:16:39 DocScrutinizer, et al: i'm looking for slide feedback Nov 12 13:16:58 ??? Nov 12 13:19:32 hi guys Nov 12 13:21:07 timeless_mbp, my feedback: they are invisible, I can't see nothing Nov 12 13:23:38 Hey Venemo Nov 12 13:24:02 hey alterego :) Nov 12 13:27:50 Just noticed, Maps doesn't even show you your current speed .. Nov 12 13:28:05 gpsjinni Nov 12 13:28:33 My app is better :P Nov 12 13:28:47 jspeed seems to be nice Nov 12 13:29:18 alterego: released yet? Nov 12 13:29:27 Of course not :P Nov 12 13:29:40 Maybe it'll never be released. Nov 12 13:29:52 too good to be shared with the world, eh? Nov 12 13:30:07 Too large and embarrassing. Nov 12 13:31:11 timeless: wazzup? Nov 12 13:34:07 alterego: why embarassing? Nov 12 13:34:20 Because the code isn't particularly tidy etc, etc, etc. Nov 12 13:34:39 alterego: and why should the end users care about your code being tidy? Nov 12 13:37:16 They shouldn't, and I don't realy care about end users :P Nov 12 13:38:52 alterego: didn't you say you wanna sell this on Ovi Store? Nov 12 13:39:09 Not too sure now. Nov 12 13:39:13 I haven't really decided. Nov 12 13:39:27 Want to get some input on it first. Nov 12 13:39:42 alterego: well... then release it, or show it to some people, or whatever :P Nov 12 13:39:58 firesheep for maemo? Nov 12 13:40:56 alterego: is it Qt based? Nov 12 13:41:02 Yes Nov 12 13:41:26 alterego, what is your application? Nov 12 13:41:51 alterego: well then make a Symbian version too and earn a fortune with it Nov 12 13:42:14 Nothing particularly interesting. Nov 12 13:42:26 Don't listen to anything Venemo has to say Nov 12 13:42:28 Just a GPS app a bit more like a handheld garmin GPS Nov 12 13:42:32 He is suggesting you sell out! :p Nov 12 13:43:00 No mapping, just the basic navigation tools Nov 12 13:43:07 With a bit of funk and graphical glitz Nov 12 13:43:58 alterego: well I know the feeling anyway Nov 12 13:44:09 alterego: I also always make something that I never release Nov 12 13:44:28 alterego: but at the end I usually regret it, and by the time I actually do something about it, it's too late Nov 12 13:45:02 I do quite wanna try it on an N8 Nov 12 13:59:06 Anybody in here who know abit about Mobile Hotspot? Nov 12 14:02:05 i know it works ;) Nov 12 14:02:06 mostly. Nov 12 14:02:24 well it doesn't for me... Nov 12 14:02:41 do you guys have an idea why Transmission is not working? Nov 12 14:02:44 i've made a post, but had no replies yet. - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=871491#post871491 Nov 12 14:03:03 OMG, you have really made a post! Nov 12 14:03:05 munkiii: please don't combine with multiboot! Nov 12 14:03:38 Ah, So can NITDroid and Mobile Hotspot not be used together Nov 12 14:03:41 unless you know what you're doing Nov 12 14:03:59 RTFM Nov 12 14:04:15 until PR1.3, i have been using Mobile Hotspot with Multiboot Kernel-Power without problems Nov 12 14:06:00 RTFM for what? Mobile Hotspot? If you know of a "Fucking Manual" for Mobile Hotspot, can you point me in that direction? Nov 12 14:06:24 multiboot is a uber-clever_hack/brainfart/hickup >select what meets your taste>. In fact MB is doing quite a number of weird/rogue things and is not exactly easy to manage or update Nov 12 14:07:23 I am asking because before PR1.3, MH worked fine with Multiboot. So i didn't assume it would be Multiboot related. Nov 12 14:07:37 so again, RTFM for what? Mobile Hotspot? If you know of a "Fucking Manual" for Mobile Hotspot, can you point me in that direction? Nov 12 14:07:56 MB is juggling with kernels by flashing them at boot time. Don't expect a simple installation of a new kernel will play nice with that Nov 12 14:08:21 Hi Nov 12 14:08:27 how do you reset the SSH password ? Nov 12 14:08:29 on the N900 Nov 12 14:08:35 i dont remember my old password Nov 12 14:08:43 ssh password? Nov 12 14:08:45 reinstall the server Nov 12 14:08:47 there's no such thing Nov 12 14:08:52 i dunno Nov 12 14:08:57 it asked for entering SSH password Nov 12 14:08:59 and username Nov 12 14:09:01 while installing Nov 12 14:09:06 so set it? Nov 12 14:09:17 that'll be the Sudo Gainroot needed password i assume Nov 12 14:09:17 ya had set it when i had installed long back Nov 12 14:09:20 but i forgot it now Nov 12 14:10:04 iirc it asks for *root* password Nov 12 14:10:26 and you're managing passwords with cmd (1) passwd Nov 12 14:10:31 see man passwd Nov 12 14:10:37 ok Nov 12 14:10:51 Anyway, DocScrutinizer, cheers for your "help", i'll be sure to ask you in the future for help with anything i need. :) Nov 12 14:11:02 yw Nov 12 14:11:32 prepare for better sarcasm next time. I'm not as pissed as usual today Nov 12 14:14:44 if the "help" I gve wasn't sufficient to give you a clue where to look for proper setup / help. Then you won't find any better here Nov 12 14:18:26 * DocScrutinizer wonders whom to beat up a bit for multiboot :-P Nov 12 14:19:08 don't care to look it up at dmo Nov 12 14:24:43 could we get a heuristic on buildhost to check for buzzwords like "flasher" "vmlinuz" "*.bin" "/lib/modules/*" , and then buildhost auto-adds a "WARNING! This package is messing with your system, and to revert you most likely *have* to do a full flashing! Also any SSU will probably break your system" Nov 12 14:26:05 plus pkg is auto-moved to (yet to define) group "user/device-killers" Nov 12 14:26:55 heh, it would be a good idea... along with general package info like "this will access the network stack", "this will access the gps", etc Nov 12 14:28:17 Well, there are always ways around this. Nov 12 14:28:42 I think what DocScrutinizer is suggesting is a more informed user warning in the app installer. Nov 12 14:28:56 yes Nov 12 14:29:02 Using it for security is pointless :) Nov 12 14:29:12 Good idea, Nov 12 14:29:20 eh, not entirely Nov 12 14:29:26 though I'm about to think of yet another solution: a new repo: maemo-killers Nov 12 14:29:33 Heh Nov 12 14:29:59 djeezus, OOo is such a fucking big pile of shit Nov 12 14:30:22 pkg might get kicked there by public vote, or delibeartely by developer, or by heuristics Nov 12 14:30:23 detecting access to things like the network stack, or a gps api is definitely detectable... and while it may be possible through some crazy workarounds to beat the detection, it typically is beyond the capability of those who create malware Nov 12 14:31:22 ieatlint: no, it's not :P Nov 12 14:31:26 Not always Nov 12 14:31:40 ieatlint: that's along the andritiot / win7 whatyacallit user management Nov 12 14:31:51 I think it's both useless Nov 12 14:32:24 ieatlint: no matter what you come up with, it will be trivial to work around if someone was in that kind of mind. Nov 12 14:32:30 don't worry, crap security is coming with harmattan Nov 12 14:32:41 and, morning. Nov 12 14:32:43 I suggest not bothering to put up walls that will just invite them to break them down and give people a false sense of security. Nov 12 14:32:49 hoora**cough*! Nov 12 14:32:51 this is a much more in-depth discussion than i'm currently awake enough, but i'm not all swayed by claims that things like open() can't be monitored Nov 12 14:33:01 o/ javispedro Nov 12 14:33:18 ieatlint: so you'd deny people access to open? :P Nov 12 14:33:25 hi Nov 12 14:33:27 back on topic, my suggestion wasn't about security at all Nov 12 14:33:32 i am soon n900 user:P Nov 12 14:33:33 no, i'm not saying restrict access Nov 12 14:33:38 DocScrutinizer: I know, yes, so, I like your idea :) Nov 12 14:33:59 i have some questions and things what i want know... Nov 12 14:34:05 ~ask Nov 12 14:34:06 Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. Nov 12 14:34:08 we got WAY TOO many useful apps in -devel Nov 12 14:34:12 i'm saying inform the user at install time that it accesses things like an tcp/ip socket Nov 12 14:34:36 ieatlint: lol Nov 12 14:34:47 ieatlint: *useless* Nov 12 14:34:47 ieatlint: that's indetectable at build time Nov 12 14:35:00 ieatlint: so it would be a "suggestion" at most Nov 12 14:35:08 hardly Nov 12 14:35:09 I think that's the point Nov 12 14:35:10 and *useless* Nov 12 14:35:17 DocScrutinizer: what's the problem with having useful apps in -devel? Nov 12 14:35:19 i have now samsung galaxy s but in wednesday and what u think about n900? is it slow and buggy? Nov 12 14:35:21 it's not only realistic, it's accomplished and standard practise on symbian and android Nov 12 14:35:31 and several virtualised jail environments on *nix Nov 12 14:35:39 Venemo: it urges joe dumbuser to enable -devel Nov 12 14:35:42 ieatlint: the only say way to do any of this is to sandbox Nov 12 14:35:55 DocScrutinizer: hey, i resemble that remark Nov 12 14:35:58 DocScrutinizer: oh, right... Nov 12 14:36:01 ieatlint: and if you sandbox, why not go java all the way Nov 12 14:36:01 And we don't have a controllable sandbox :P Nov 12 14:36:10 and get access to things like multiboot, powerkernel, tweakfreq, without distinguishable warning Nov 12 14:36:16 DocScrutinizer: well the solution would be to encourage devs to push their stuff to -testing and then Extras Nov 12 14:36:30 javispedro: i guess i'm in some chastised minority for realizing that anyone can make an app that can broadcast your imsi and gps location to a server :P Nov 12 14:36:37 Venemo: some stuff, like uboot, should stay in dev as it's dev apps :P Nov 12 14:36:48 ieatlint: surpringly, they can also do it on the iphone Nov 12 14:36:48 DocScrutinizer: powerkernel made it's way to Extras, and doesn't it conflict with PR1.3? Nov 12 14:36:51 what u say about android on n900, does it works so i can use it? Nov 12 14:36:51 ieatlint: and on andridiot it's *USELESS* Nov 12 14:36:51 Venemo: +1 Nov 12 14:37:01 javispedro: you noticed i left that off my short list :) Nov 12 14:37:14 heh Nov 12 14:37:42 ieatlint: but exactly the absence of this filter is partly what makes Maemo Maemo. Nov 12 14:38:01 * javispedro envisions not being able to install an app because it "opens a socket" (to X11, but a socket...) Nov 12 14:38:15 * javispedro fears Harmattan.. Nov 12 14:38:21 Heh Nov 12 14:38:29 oh please, the socket type is as easy to detect any the open call itself Nov 12 14:38:37 okay i dont get any help in here and i go back in next week ... Nov 12 14:38:57 alterego, DocScrutinizer: I obviously meant things that are intended for end users Nov 12 14:39:05 @HateBreeder, thank you, don't come again :D Nov 12 14:39:19 Venemo: yeah, that's not so much what I think we're talking about here. Nov 12 14:39:53 alterego: what do you mean? Nov 12 14:39:54 alterego, damn, I wish i could've banned his ass Nov 12 14:39:58 wb MohammadAG Nov 12 14:40:12 crashanddie_++ Nov 12 14:40:36 ieatlint: please!!! it's mega fooodjsgabkbcq ixb to common user! Nov 12 14:40:47 crashanddie_: :) Nov 12 14:41:05 and perhaps it is what makes maemo maemo... but i'll not be shamed by people shaming me for thinking some basic security on a platform that is woefully open is a bad idea. it relies on its obscurity to maintain even a semblance of security, and is historically short-sighted Nov 12 14:41:17 alterego: crashanddie_: well, you'll be able to ban him if he comes again "in a week" as he said :) Nov 12 14:41:28 * crashanddie_ puts a note in his calendar Nov 12 14:41:43 Venemo: We're talking about better informing users as to the potential issues of some -devel software. Nov 12 14:41:56 Heh Nov 12 14:42:21 ieatlint: we do not rely on obscurity. we rely on the same the iphone does: reviewing. Nov 12 14:42:32 ieatlint: that's the entire reasoning behind extras QA. Nov 12 14:42:33 alterego: just shoot anyone with crap software... that'll sort it ;) Nov 12 14:42:37 * Noobmonk3y hides Nov 12 14:42:37 alterego: just point them to the wiki article about extras-devel Nov 12 14:42:49 alterego: and expand the article Nov 12 14:42:51 ieatlint: the fact that people prefer non-reviewed -devel applications for some weird reason says something Nov 12 14:42:57 my dad bought a galaxy s. and once again, I'm extraordinarily happy with my n900 by comparison :) Nov 12 14:42:59 ieatlint: all studies show that spamming user with "warning!" he doesn't understand gets you *worse* over all security, instead of increasing it Nov 12 14:43:00 (other than people are stupid... Nov 12 14:43:01 ) Nov 12 14:43:05 alterego: tell them that software from -devel can and will blow up their N900s Nov 12 14:43:07 javispedro: don't make me quote you later in saying "we're as good as the iphone when it comes to security" :P Nov 12 14:43:20 n900 has such a crisp screen. and the IM integration is superb (one of the features I really use most) Nov 12 14:43:26 ieatlint: we're better, our review process is open, we suggest the source code to be open, etc. Nov 12 14:43:36 this is true for zonealarm, as it is for andidiot install warnings, or for win7 Nov 12 14:43:45 UAE or what'sit called Nov 12 14:44:11 uh, the build system does not exactly require open code Nov 12 14:44:26 ieatlint: free extras devel does. Nov 12 14:44:29 er.. Nov 12 14:44:32 s/devel// Nov 12 14:45:07 no, it requires something i can submit the build system to be run through autotools Nov 12 14:45:13 i can include precompiled SOs Nov 12 14:45:28 ieatlint: has that every passed extras QA? Nov 12 14:45:32 *ever Nov 12 14:45:40 i honestly couldn't say Nov 12 14:45:42 * javispedro would shot such a thing down Nov 12 14:46:05 Shapeshifter: agreed :) Nov 12 14:46:10 HELL, why get my nice topics always hijacked Nov 12 14:46:18 DocScrutinizer: sorry :P Nov 12 14:46:27 i'm heading off now, return to your nice topic :) Nov 12 14:46:42 MEH Nov 12 14:46:50 meyh meh Nov 12 14:46:53 DocScrutinizer: because you talk about puppy abortion, so we extrapolate it to the much larger and flammier topic of human abortion ;) Nov 12 14:46:53 telling a joke a second time... Nov 12 14:46:57 s/meyh/meh Nov 12 14:48:27 so, anybody interested in reading ~30min backscroll and answer to my suggestions/thoughts up there? Nov 12 14:49:03 ieatlint: see? Nov 12 14:49:24 Is the package mp-freemantle-002-pr the OS itself? Nov 12 14:49:36 DocScrutinizer: you mean this one? Nov 12 14:49:38 [15:18] could we get a heuristic on buildhost to check for buzzwords like "flasher" "vmlinuz" "*.bin" "/lib/modules/*" , and then buildhost auto-adds a "WARNING! This package is messing with your system, and to revert you most likely *have* to do a full flashing! Also any SSU will probably break your system" Nov 12 14:49:44 yes Nov 12 14:49:55 seems to be reasonable Nov 12 14:50:07 :P Nov 12 14:50:08 * javispedro personally voted to dump non-GUI packages from user/* Nov 12 14:50:14 but I lost :( Nov 12 14:50:23 maybe we should put those things into another repo, called 'extras-dangerous', or something like that Nov 12 14:51:02 extras-toxic? Nov 12 14:51:09 YES! Nov 12 14:51:22 heh Nov 12 14:51:29 I wouldn't do another repository with basically the same semantics as extras-devel Nov 12 14:51:42 what will happen is that extras-uber-devel will become the new -devel Nov 12 14:51:48 you have plenty of example... Nov 12 14:51:54 or extras-CanAndWillBlowUpYourDevice Nov 12 14:52:03 [2010-11-12 15:23:20] though I'm about to think of yet another solution: a new repo: maemo-killers Nov 12 14:52:06 extras-YouWereWarned Nov 12 14:52:21 DocScrutinizer: sane solution: get packager to add a few warning boxes. Nov 12 14:52:39 * javispedro really believes those packages shouldn't be in user/* either way. Nov 12 14:52:48 but if they are, they might as well show some GUI... Nov 12 14:52:49 ack Nov 12 14:53:15 with skull&crossedbones Nov 12 14:53:30 get an animated, floating, dancing, bumpy warning 400px warning sign Nov 12 14:53:51 all while playing the main theme of "Apocalypse Now" Nov 12 14:54:15 easy Nov 12 14:54:36 sure, all my ideas are easy, that's why they are good ideas :-P Nov 12 14:54:57 when the user adds this repo, pop up a dialog and ask him the question, "Are you ready to let your device be destroyed?" Nov 12 14:55:10 Venemo: user will not read message, answer "Yes" Nov 12 14:55:12 ack Nov 12 14:55:19 and only enable it if he types in "Yes, I wanna let my N900 blow up" Nov 12 14:55:23 * javispedro notes you all should read yesterday's discussion we had on #meego Nov 12 14:55:33 basically, even Stskeeps started calling them "lemmings". Nov 12 14:55:38 or, simply remove these things from the user/* section Nov 12 14:55:45 eeeeeek #meego Nov 12 14:55:51 basically don't let them be installed from a GUI Nov 12 14:57:02 * DocScrutinizer remembers the flames h-e-n team got by introducing i2c tools to maemo Nov 12 14:57:23 and the hoops we had to jump to calm down the critics Nov 12 14:57:43 if we remove these things from user/*, one would have to use the command line to install them, thus making the entry level higher Nov 12 14:58:05 until someone sets up a "tutorial", that is. Nov 12 14:58:21 usually, most tutorials outside maemo.org are "how to hose your device" tutorials. Nov 12 14:58:42 hm Nov 12 14:58:50 MohammadAG51: did the build work? or still fighting freenode? Nov 12 14:58:57 this reminds me I should someday push on the topic of internationalized maemo.org, before N900+1 gets released.. Nov 12 14:59:23 javispedro: well yeah, until someone does Nov 12 14:59:24 XP Nov 12 14:59:30 javispedro: we should discourage that Nov 12 14:59:52 javispedro: I mean, making some "tutorials" Nov 12 15:00:05 good luck with that.. Nov 12 15:00:05 hahaha Nov 12 15:00:32 Noobmonk3y, fighting freenode, I brought down the bouncer somehow Nov 12 15:00:39 lol! Nov 12 15:01:17 only way to discourage 3rd party howtos is to offer a really good one from beginning Nov 12 15:01:27 hm, no xnt14 connected, yep, it's dead Nov 12 15:01:45 DocScrutinizer: well then let's offer one with the proper warnings Nov 12 15:02:43 Venemo: I don't see how this will help without making installation so "complicated" users will actually bother to *look* at a howto Nov 12 15:03:03 DocScrutinizer: honestly, I'm out of ideas Nov 12 15:03:12 * javispedro suggests reading yesterday's #meego Nov 12 15:03:19 WONT Nov 12 15:03:28 javispedro: the one that timeless_mbp said tl;wr? Nov 12 15:03:59 Venemo: no, a conversation between Stskeeps, smoku, me, RST38h, .. Nov 12 15:04:10 javispedro: oh. Nov 12 15:04:29 javispedro: maybe you could summarize it for us? Nov 12 15:04:29 #meego is bah, and in some way like tmo.s evil brother from anti-world Nov 12 15:04:51 DocScrutinizer: haha Nov 12 15:05:25 DocScrutinizer: going back to your question Nov 12 15:05:29 what the hell http://pastebin.com/CKpL6X5h Nov 12 15:05:43 DocScrutinizer: hehe Nov 12 15:05:47 DocScrutinizer: no way to fit kernel and uboot together somewhere Nov 12 15:06:13 DocScrutinizer: but i think if i can compress uboot i can replace 2nd stage nolo Nov 12 15:06:16 err, thought that's what is done right now?? Nov 12 15:06:32 nah, I'm off watching SGU Nov 12 15:06:50 (kernel+uBoot) Nov 12 15:06:59 DocScrutinizer: nah it's read from sd card Nov 12 15:07:06 o.O Nov 12 15:07:10 WUT? Nov 12 15:08:33 uBoot lives at start of kernel mtd partition, together witjh maemo kernel. It boots maemo kernel if it doesn't find any meego kernel on uSD. That's what I've been told Nov 12 15:09:21 Venemo: http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2010-11-11.log.html#t2010-11-11T19:49:02 Nov 12 15:09:32 javispedro: thx Nov 12 15:09:32 ah, sorry, you're away. Nov 12 15:09:37 NOLO boots kernel mtd partition, thus chainloading uBoot instead of maemo kernel Nov 12 15:09:39 ah, sorry, you're not away. Nov 12 15:09:41 another's "!" key is wearing out .... "well, it's too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my n900 is stocked to that devilish penguin u boot screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Nov 12 15:09:49 rmrfchik, user/hidden, you can use a custom apt Nov 12 15:10:01 javispedro: I look back to IRC every once in a while :) Nov 12 15:11:01 if NOLO would try to chainload uBoot from uSD, we'd not need any uBoot at all - first instance Nov 12 15:11:02 MohammadAG: how? Nov 12 15:11:50 rmrfchik, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/apt_0.7.20.2maemo13.1_0m5latest_armel.deb Nov 12 15:11:55 Venemo: also, http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2010-11-11.log.html#t2010-11-11T20:10:36 Nov 12 15:12:02 compiled that in PR1.2 times, but it should work on 1.3 Nov 12 15:12:09 MohammadAG: changelog? Nov 12 15:12:17 t.m.o thread? Nov 12 15:12:21 Venemo: people start sharing experiences from there on Nov 12 15:12:26 none, same as stock, changed --configure flags Nov 12 15:12:44 rmrfchik, none Nov 12 15:13:04 rmrfchik, configure.in: --disable-block-hidden Don't block 'user/hidden' packages], Nov 12 15:13:26 DocScrutinizer: if nolo had became a proper bootloader we would have had no need for thirdparty workarounds Nov 12 15:13:50 * chem|st loves conditional sentences Nov 12 15:13:53 chem|st: Cpt.Obvious? Nov 12 15:13:59 DocScrutinizer: yes Nov 12 15:14:22 DocScrutinizer: you are right, nolo and stock kernel are on the same partition Nov 12 15:14:29 err.. Nov 12 15:14:32 s/nolo/uboot Nov 12 15:14:36 uboot* Nov 12 15:14:39 uBoot and kernel :-) Nov 12 15:14:40 DocScrutinizer: just wanted to do a c3 sentence on that topic for fun Nov 12 15:15:08 * javispedro still wants to try and fix kexec based multibooting some day Nov 12 15:15:14 sigh @ non working ke-recv Nov 12 15:15:30 why does maemo have retarded system tools? Nov 12 15:15:42 maemo as a distro is a mess Nov 12 15:15:43 fsck fucks up partitions (segfaults a lot) Nov 12 15:15:50 busybox is... meh Nov 12 15:15:50 MohammadAG: yeh, *real* development is kinda fun and frustrating same time :-D Nov 12 15:16:05 DocScrutinizer: do not do development on maemo Nov 12 15:16:16 there's a reason the other day I had a problem with ETOOMANY partitions Nov 12 15:16:17 DocScrutinizer: and with a proper kexec support in desired OSs we would do fine too Nov 12 15:16:24 I have a lot of chroots for ex. Nov 12 15:16:41 when time for "real ondevice development" comes I just chroot on a real distro Nov 12 15:17:01 * MohammadAG has an SDK chroot Nov 12 15:17:13 dumped it for an ssh scratchbox Nov 12 15:17:19 MohammadAG: how app manager installs user/hidden? Nov 12 15:17:28 rmrfchik, apt-worker Nov 12 15:17:32 red-pill mode :-P Nov 12 15:17:46 the issue here is fennec being in user/hidden Nov 12 15:17:54 javispedro, duh :P Nov 12 15:18:10 i will download it by habd Nov 12 15:18:11 why the hell did they disable it anyways? Nov 12 15:18:12 hand Nov 12 15:18:13 what a brainfart Nov 12 15:18:19 * javispedro requests some gas for his flamethrower while poining it at packager of fennec Nov 12 15:18:24 ovi? fuck it Nov 12 15:18:32 nokia made a lot of insance decisions Nov 12 15:18:40 ovi never worked Nov 12 15:18:43 never will Nov 12 15:18:47 Mo Mo! What do i need to do to finish this packaging? :| still a bit worried i can't entirely do it myself :| Nov 12 15:18:57 wanna get Kathy testing it Nov 12 15:19:01 rmrfchik: no...! really? Nov 12 15:19:11 even on symbian - while better than Maemo - it fails compared to the apple app store Nov 12 15:19:17 Noobmonk3y, link again, lost it :P Nov 12 15:20:10 MohammadAG: free music refuses to download if account balance is ZERO (for some nokia cases) Nov 12 15:20:19 * javispedro is surprised at the irony of the entire meego-uboot-tmo triangle of doom Nov 12 15:20:37 lol Nov 12 15:20:44 javispedro: i'm still laughing that theres 20+ threads created about it, and its quite a simple fix :P Nov 12 15:21:01 they wanted ... meego ... they got ... a PENGUIN! Nov 12 15:21:08 sounds like a film name already. Nov 12 15:21:10 Noobmonk3y: and I am tired of merging threads since pr1.2 Nov 12 15:21:18 B movie Nov 12 15:21:22 * Noobmonk3y remembers raising an idea about having a single line news brief thing on tmo.. ie "PR1.3 Released - read here" or "Uboot screwing it all up" or "Blaaah blaaaah" Nov 12 15:21:32 i even did a brainstorm Nov 12 15:21:37 Waaah Waaah Nov 12 15:21:41 but as brainstorm isnt used by the masses, no one cared :p Nov 12 15:21:55 chem|st: can see why :( Nov 12 15:22:09 Noobmonk3y: it was quite useful when it was used by the masses, everybody dumped his random shitty ideas there and nobody cared. yay! =) Nov 12 15:22:19 lol ;) Nov 12 15:22:33 really though - its a developers tool brainstorm, not a community one Nov 12 15:22:39 Noobmonk3y: brainstorm failed as the volunteers could nothing do but edit freaking tmo threads (me) and thats why they quit proceeding Nov 12 15:22:50 :) :) Nov 12 15:22:55 Noobmonk3y: but mo meeting said we get it all working in 2011 Nov 12 15:22:58 ? Nov 12 15:23:01 .... it was designed as a community brainstorm Nov 12 15:23:04 how did i got HL Nov 12 15:23:11 creating a thread as a brainstorm and vbote on the thread would make alot more sense Nov 12 15:23:17 FIQ: you tell us Nov 12 15:23:26 javispedro: without thinking how most of the community work Nov 12 15:23:47 most go on, search, or just post, the information cant be hidden down a maemo back alley, i agree it should have worked, but didnt :p Nov 12 15:23:49 * javispedro has some experience with how this stuff works... Nov 12 15:23:53 um Nov 12 15:23:55 oh Nov 12 15:24:01 now i know why Nov 12 15:24:13 bacon? Nov 12 15:24:14 chem|st: oOooo Nov 12 15:24:17 DocScrutinizer: yes! Nov 12 15:24:36 i did a quick multihighlighter to be compatible with nbs-irc, and seems ti failed to exclude "(me)" as an actual word Nov 12 15:24:37 Noobmonk3y: yeah the "single" instance was requested month ago just after they split it up, still want to kick-ass those freaks who wanted related tmo threads instead of build in tmo right away Nov 12 15:24:50 to* have failed* Nov 12 15:25:08 FIQ: lol Nov 12 15:25:17 :) Nov 12 15:26:23 DocScrutinizer: what's your email? I plan to redirect tmoers to you when they start hosing their devices ;) Nov 12 15:26:25 * DocScrutinizer yawns Nov 12 15:26:25 FIQ: and I need to exclude pink and light-green from my nickcolor script... Nov 12 15:27:01 dev@null.moon Nov 12 15:27:46 pending to changer to joerg@paypal.com Nov 12 15:28:23 Hi Nov 12 15:28:37 anyone here installed any Preenv games on their eMMC ? Nov 12 15:28:44 i mean WebOS * Nov 12 15:28:45 games Nov 12 15:29:02 /home/user is on the eMMC Nov 12 15:29:20 so I think you're asking for "on MyDocs". Nov 12 15:29:38 * DocScrutinizer ponders bout "real hackers are amused they get paid for doing things they'd do anyway" and when this started to change to "WTF am I doing this?" for him Nov 12 15:29:57 DocScrutinizer: matter of time Nov 12 15:30:10 DocScrutinizer: has happened to me few times already... Nov 12 15:30:21 DocScrutinizer: When you start working on apps you didn't even know existed. Nov 12 15:31:06 I guess it started when I realized I never got paid by ``nokia'' and never will Nov 12 15:31:34 Autobuilder question alls! Nov 12 15:31:45 Why is this .changes file getting rejected, any ideas? - http://pastebin.com/vD28TXSu Nov 12 15:31:45 for me at least it's just that I get tired of nearly anything when I've been doing it for ~ a year. Nov 12 15:31:48 or maybe it started the day I found my fridge empty in the morning Nov 12 15:31:49 shitty :( Nov 12 15:31:55 error = File upload error. You didn't upload a valid .changes file. Nov 12 15:32:15 Noobmonk3y: are you writing .changes files _BY HAND_? Nov 12 15:32:31 yes i'm asking for MyDocs Nov 12 15:32:40 i installed NFSU on mydocs Nov 12 15:32:48 it loads and it crashes when the loading bar comes Nov 12 15:33:09 strace or gdb it. Nov 12 15:33:13 how ? Nov 12 15:33:23 what command Nov 12 15:33:24 with strace Nov 12 15:33:27 ok Nov 12 15:33:30 and then open ? Nov 12 15:33:30 "strace" :) Nov 12 15:33:42 javispedro: my first attempt at qt packaging, and MohammadAG has done it for me, cos it is a pain in the ass Nov 12 15:33:55 Noobmonk3y: but you are writing them BY HAND? O.o Nov 12 15:33:55 yet, the file is accepted when he does it Nov 12 15:34:01 but not wwhen i do Nov 12 15:34:02 xDaReaperx: strace Nov 12 15:34:08 erm, well yeah Nov 12 15:34:13 how else do you create one? Nov 12 15:34:14 Noobmonk3y: do not! Nov 12 15:34:27 Noobmonk3y: why you can't run dpkg-buildpackage? Nov 12 15:34:30 i lie - MohammadAG gave it to me Nov 12 15:34:36 thats prob how it was done Nov 12 15:34:39 i did strace nfsuc it says not found Nov 12 15:34:41 dch :P Nov 12 15:34:43 xDaReaperx: strace is in tools repository Nov 12 15:34:49 ok Nov 12 15:35:03 javispedro, cause he's on windows Nov 12 15:35:17 MohammadAG51: shouldn't Madde provide dpkg-* ? Nov 12 15:35:23 MohammadAG: IT WORKED! Nov 12 15:35:25 random! Nov 12 15:35:26 Noobmonk3y, your changelog is fucked up lol Nov 12 15:35:30 rewriting it... Nov 12 15:35:39 err? Nov 12 15:35:41 it'll fail on the builder Nov 12 15:35:47 be good ppl Nov 12 15:35:47 javispedro, it should, but never used it Nov 12 15:36:04 chrissbx: o/ AYE Nov 12 15:36:05 javispedro: when i try to run NFSU through : preenv ./nfsuc Nov 12 15:36:07 it wont open Nov 12 15:36:11 is somethign wrong there ? Nov 12 15:36:13 err chem|st ^^^ Nov 12 15:36:19 randommmmmmmmmm Nov 12 15:36:20 MohammadAG51: should be slightly more easier than generating the package by hand... Nov 12 15:36:26 oh well Nov 12 15:36:41 DocScrutinizer: that was a byebye Nov 12 15:36:43 xDaReaperx: preenv doesn't accept command line arguments, it just spawns a shell Nov 12 15:36:49 oh ok Nov 12 15:36:58 o/ was a :wave: Nov 12 15:37:15 NFSU never crashed when it was on /home/user/games Nov 12 15:37:30 xDaReaperx: so, when you get to run your game under strace, examine the log and watch for late errors Nov 12 15:37:35 ok Nov 12 15:38:22 i.e last ~30 lines will show some "ouch, that hurts..." :-D Nov 12 15:38:28 javispedro, who generates packages by hand? Nov 12 15:38:59 MohammadAG: well, I thought he was writing a .changes file... Nov 12 15:39:07 lol Nov 12 15:39:08 javispedro: i have no idea what i am talking about Nov 12 15:39:13 I did once Nov 12 15:39:35 it's in the name <<-- Nov 12 15:39:42 DocScrutinizer: you are a nutter though Nov 12 15:39:56 have you gotten any corporate interest in preenv javispedro ? Nov 12 15:40:26 lol DocScrutinizer Nov 12 15:40:28 ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US Nov 12 15:40:59 err to javispedro Nov 12 15:40:59 * MohammadAG self explodes his bases Nov 12 15:41:31 all dwarf fortress needs (apparently) is a little UI work for maemo Nov 12 15:41:41 "a little" Nov 12 15:41:44 email bomb campaign :) http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ Nov 12 15:41:45 the fuck? scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/maecount_0.5.0_source.changes: Permission denied Nov 12 15:42:01 someone broke the builder... on a friday Nov 12 15:42:23 haha Nov 12 15:42:27 kerio: you experienced with DF? Nov 12 15:42:43 someone messed with tmo stylesheets etc as well, some days ago Nov 12 15:42:48 nope, always wanted to play it, always put off by the bad interface Nov 12 15:43:02 i can't find strace Nov 12 15:43:05 which rep is it in ? Nov 12 15:43:12 TOOLS Nov 12 15:43:14 tools/sdk repos Nov 12 15:43:28 ok Nov 12 15:43:38 [2010-11-12 16:28:37] xDaReaperx: strace is in tools repository Nov 12 15:43:50 okay sorry Nov 12 15:43:59 X-Fade, I hope you're there Nov 12 15:44:03 lrn2read Nov 12 15:44:20 MohammadAG: At airport, but yes. Nov 12 15:45:00 X-Fade: beware of printer cartriges Nov 12 15:45:16 X-Fade, oh fixed, nevermind :) Nov 12 15:45:21 X-Fade, safe trip Nov 12 15:45:31 DocScrutinizer, X-Fade and toners, apparently, they can be killers Nov 12 15:45:39 Noobmonk3y, it worked Nov 12 15:45:41 lol Nov 12 15:45:42 it Nov 12 15:45:46 world peace? Nov 12 15:45:53 trout farming from thin air? Nov 12 15:46:22 omg it's on it's way to extras devel! Nov 12 15:46:26 world peace always works in my living room Nov 12 15:47:15 ~trout Noobmonk3y Nov 12 15:47:15 * infobot slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout! Nov 12 15:47:20 yay! Nov 12 15:47:24 thankyou MohammadAG Nov 12 15:48:09 yw, just get rid of notepad, please! :P Nov 12 15:48:39 X-Fade: seen my suggestions/weird thoughts about "dangerous" apps and getting some buildhost heuristics? Nov 12 15:49:01 MohammadAG51: rf -notepad? Nov 12 15:49:06 X-Fade: maybe even a devel-killing repo Nov 12 15:49:09 * Noobmonk3y will move to ubuntu at some point Nov 12 15:49:15 from what? Nov 12 15:49:21 have it on the laptop but hate swapping between the two Nov 12 15:49:34 and cant remove windows as 2 girls use it atm and it has 2TB of crap on it Nov 12 15:49:43 DocScrutinizer: Yes, but I don't see that happening soon. Nov 12 15:49:56 * DocScrutinizer neither - LOL Nov 12 15:50:12 DocScrutinizer: For Harmattan that might be something else as the security framework needs to declare capabilities. Nov 12 15:50:13 MS Notepad is probably the most impressive example of wilful incompatibility I've seen Nov 12 15:50:14 Noobmonk3y, "2 girls" you and your missus? *grin* Nov 12 15:50:22 i mean, how hard is it to support line breaks? Nov 12 15:50:29 lcuk: ;) Nov 12 15:50:38 nuke friggin PITA security framework Nov 12 15:50:50 it's *EVIL* Nov 12 15:51:11 Nah, it is not evil. It can be used for evil. Nov 12 15:51:24 It all comes down to policies. Nov 12 15:51:28 it WILL be used for *E*V*I*L Nov 12 15:51:35 * javispedro agrees Nov 12 15:51:50 Perhaps, we'll see. Nov 12 15:51:50 DocScrutinizer: then again, what it will forbide you from doing you probably won't be doing either way Nov 12 15:51:54 * MohammadAG images such a repo Nov 12 15:52:11 I would upload a "You have 0.1s to cancel rm -rf /*, too late muhahahaha" Nov 12 15:52:19 bah Nov 12 15:52:23 it owns *my* device, and next SSU Nokia owns my device and pr1.3 getting obsolete like cheese in the sun Nov 12 15:52:42 when are we going to upload a trojan to extras-devel named "2 GHZ OVERCLOCK OMG" Nov 12 15:52:55 * javispedro will do if people promise not to ban me from here afterwards Nov 12 15:53:10 javispedro, no, that's too obvious, it's clearly a fake Nov 12 15:53:17 I will also call in the usual "news channels" (slashdot, engadget...) Nov 12 15:53:26 * MohammadAG uploads a 2.1GHz overclock Nov 12 15:54:00 javispedro: why a trojan Nov 12 15:54:04 with fsckng security framework Nokia is going closed hardware like all andridiot devices are Nov 12 15:54:12 upload a 2ghz overclocker to extras-devel Nov 12 15:54:16 :) Nov 12 15:54:22 we'll have to deal with shit like jailbreak etc Nov 12 15:54:22 heh Nov 12 15:55:50 I *EXPLICITLY FORBID* Nokia to push any cryptoshit sihned locked bootloader to my device. It's MY device - not >theirs< Nov 12 15:56:32 shweet Nov 12 15:57:08 DocScrutinizer: they're not going to push anything to your N900, but, you know, vote with your wallet when the next device comes... Nov 12 15:57:17 We were promised an open mode, so I'm not too worried. Nov 12 15:57:40 I also doubt Nokia is allowed to publish FOSS under such a "security framework" ownership deprivation policy Nov 12 15:57:41 * javispedro would be worried because we still don't fully know the limitations of the open mode Nov 12 15:58:02 ie no ovi store apps at all because of custom kernel? sucks. Nov 12 15:58:10 javispedro: well, be sure that everything needing drm or copy protection won't work. Nov 12 15:58:13 X-Fade: that's BULLSHIT Nov 12 15:58:35 "open mode" means you got a device with a nulled ram Nov 12 15:58:39 basically Nov 12 15:58:44 ? Nov 12 15:59:00 ah, I see. Nov 12 15:59:04 open mode can not run any "secure" app Nov 12 15:59:29 if the whole OS is "secure", then open mode means you're fucked Nov 12 15:59:32 what's going to be funny, Nov 12 15:59:33 Well, in open mode you can create your own sec policies. Nov 12 15:59:42 So you can secure your own apps ;) Nov 12 15:59:50 is that I'm going to bet that the WebOS, with NO drm, will have more applications in the ovi store =) Nov 12 15:59:53 hahahahaha Nov 12 16:00:04 s/ovi/palm ;) Nov 12 16:01:04 * DocScrutinizer shakes head, deeply saddened, about nobody understands security framework is about DRM, not about security as in app-armor or SE Nov 12 16:01:31 DocScrutinizer: I've said I agree with you. Nov 12 16:01:32 actually i think people understand that nowadays Nov 12 16:01:32 DocScrutinizer: That is not true. Nov 12 16:01:37 there's ZERO you as a user or FOSS devel will earn from security framework Nov 12 16:01:58 DocScrutinizer: You can make sure no other apps touch your files for example. Nov 12 16:02:00 "who's security?" Nov 12 16:02:11 X-Fade: is it protecting the system from the applications (app-armor) or is it protecting the applications from the system (aka DRM)? Nov 12 16:02:24 X-Fade: from what I read on the wiki, and what you've said, I think: both. Nov 12 16:02:28 javispedro: Both. Nov 12 16:02:37 X-Fade: BS, I am used to do this with unix permissions and user/group Nov 12 16:03:11 javispedro: It can protect files, use secure encrypted storage, get notified about capabilities etc. Nov 12 16:03:30 X-Fade: and provide an API for applications to refuse to boot if the device has been "tampered" with. Nov 12 16:03:48 aka IsThisClosedMode() Nov 12 16:03:50 javispedro: No. Nov 12 16:03:58 javispedro: It can not start apps then. Nov 12 16:04:15 X-Fade: great, and what of all this can't be done by possix-capabilities and tools like app-armour or linux-SE Nov 12 16:04:16 uh? Nov 12 16:04:16 ? Nov 12 16:04:19 javispedro: But once bootloader declares the kernel is signed, it will run. Nov 12 16:04:41 Using the tpm thing in omap. Nov 12 16:04:49 X-Fade: so similar to what I said, it will provide means for applications to refuse to run if in open mode. Nov 12 16:04:57 javispedro: Yes. Nov 12 16:04:59 the only NEW thing of security framework is DRM, and you bet you are deprived of your device when it comes Nov 12 16:05:14 Basically the device as a different device key in open mode. Nov 12 16:05:31 well, this is the DRM part. Nov 12 16:06:09 you might now as well call open mode "developer mode" and call the N9 the "iPhone 5" or the "Pre 3".. Nov 12 16:06:19 security framework IS EVIL, it's the hoofed one Nov 12 16:06:22 But for software development, they either need to provide some sort of self-signing or make a workable system in open mode. Nov 12 16:06:29 * alterego is now implementing a Qt based graphing system in a similar vein to rrdtool Nov 12 16:07:14 angry birds: sorry your system is in open mode, terminating Nov 12 16:07:39 Can well be, that is not known. Nov 12 16:07:45 looking on the bright side, this might deter users from overclocking ;) Nov 12 16:07:50 netstat: error: no kernel support - secure mode kernel Nov 12 16:08:17 javispedro: No, in openmode you can run your own kernel. Nov 12 16:08:31 gbd? sorry we didn't bother yet to implement it, as it doesn't run on user mode anyway Nov 12 16:08:32 X-Fade: but not angry birds. Nov 12 16:08:38 (example only) Nov 12 16:08:38 Hello. I'm trying to set up sbrsh. I can issue simple commands like `sbrsh 29999,29999,user ls', but I can't get my scratchbox user dir mounted. This is my ~/.sbrsh http://pastebin.com/p3qDtLc5 and this is the result I'm getting http://pastebin.com/0caBkzqF. Nov 12 16:08:50 I understand that Rovio might decide to allow for Angry Birds to run in open mode. Nov 12 16:09:00 X-Fade: thats his point - theoretically if software wont run in open mode, users wont blindly be opening it to overclock via a 3rd party kernel Nov 12 16:09:04 javispedro: Well yes, that is why I said it is all up to the policies. Nov 12 16:09:27 and, fortunately, third parties seem to be oblivous to this. Nov 12 16:09:30 It would be nice if those of you who use sbrsh can have I look. Thx Nov 12 16:09:40 at least on the Pre there is a trivial copy protection API that ... no third party uses. Nov 12 16:09:45 that is why I say all devels of security framework got brainwashed by industry Nov 12 16:09:50 javispedro: As 99% of customers won't ever run in open mode. Nov 12 16:10:20 X-Fade: I agree. Issue is, the other 1% is on tmo or here ;) Nov 12 16:10:38 javispedro: Yes. Man I love to play advocate of the devil :) Nov 12 16:11:04 * javispedro goes communist Nov 12 16:11:21 X-Fade: sorry, I can't answer to this. My education, you know... Nov 12 16:11:24 so, basically, those EVIL capitalist PIGS will RESTRAIN our RIGHT TO PLAY Angry Birds with our OVERCLOCKED KERNELS!! Nov 12 16:11:37 comrades, unite!! Nov 12 16:11:43 Nov 12 16:11:45 javispedro: Think of the uptime as you have to reboot Nov 12 16:13:14 * javispedro notes that what will happen is that the 30th day after the device is released, someone will crack this and from then one everyone will run the cracked kernel. Nov 12 16:13:22 comrade, how dare you PLAY Angry Birds when EVERYONE knows it IS NOT FREE SOFTWARE !!!!1!1! Nov 12 16:13:28 It's even worse, the security framework will not only "secure" apps: "Use of single reference hash list instead of ELF signed binaries and EA has certain advantages. It allows to have protection for scripts and data files, which do not have ELF header." Nov 12 16:13:46 I promise to start hardware nuking viruses for Nokia NIT with linux based security framework enabled devices Nov 12 16:14:08 DocScrutinizer: <3 Nov 12 16:14:23 to prove security framework is about all but security and to teach Nokia about spirit of FOSS Nov 12 16:14:34 ... and the noone will talk about it again, making the topic one of those issues that only popup from time to time when talking about extremism... Nov 12 16:15:44 DocScrutinizer: it will be easy! Nov 12 16:15:52 just require the device to be in closed mode using the security api Nov 12 16:16:07 doesn't do any further harm as the DRM loving ignorant crowd is moving ahead anyway Nov 12 16:16:36 ugh, fuck DRM. And fuck any developer who insists on it. Nov 12 16:16:51 And I even may have helped them, because I found that bug with hw. accel. which surely will be used for that power framework. Btw sidenote the driver is written for omap3630, at least it includes an workaround for that cpu. Nov 12 16:17:00 why just developers, dsg? Nov 12 16:17:01 how long is the build process nowadays? (Before getting into extras devel?) Nov 12 16:17:10 drm is usually imposed by ignorant management Nov 12 16:17:16 security framework IS linux-SE minus awesomeness plus DRM! Nov 12 16:17:22 Noobmonk3y: Build is quite quick. Dunno how quickly the repo gets populated. Nov 12 16:17:22 tobis87: imho it is pretty clear by now that n9 has that Nov 12 16:17:34 thanks Jaffa :) Nov 12 16:17:35 tobis87: same as pre2 Nov 12 16:17:47 it used to me 27 minutes when i was doing healthcheck, just seems a bit slower today :) Nov 12 16:17:51 expect 1 ghz Nov 12 16:18:23 javispedro: Another nice marketing term :) Nov 12 16:18:30 1GHZ!!! Nov 12 16:18:44 well that marketing term is getting old now Nov 12 16:18:46 yes, virtually no difference. pft. Nov 12 16:18:51 DUAL CORE!11 is where its at now. Nov 12 16:18:58 * javispedro would prefer a9, with jazelle dbx again :) Nov 12 16:19:10 I want an A15 Nov 12 16:19:24 With Quad 604 gpu. Nov 12 16:19:44 only don't stuff it into your pockets, so they won't catch on fire Nov 12 16:20:07 Same power footprint. Nov 12 16:20:16 X-Fade: why? to playback DVD on a DRM protected commercial player? Nov 12 16:20:45 No, on our quad display morphing devices of course :) Nov 12 16:20:54 holograms!! Nov 12 16:21:16 skip the 3D tablet altogether and aim directly for the holograms hype Nov 12 16:21:50 laser direct-to-eye painting Nov 12 16:21:55 hi again, guys Nov 12 16:21:58 javispedro: which comes with DRM implemented by security-II framework directly into your brain Nov 12 16:22:06 * mgedmin wonders if he should re-read Snow Crash again Nov 12 16:22:15 courtesy expert lemmings Nov 12 16:22:17 DocScrutinizer: you have to put your brain in Open Mode, comrade! Nov 12 16:22:30 warning: watching pirated content may hurt your eyeballs Nov 12 16:22:40 The security framework could also be enforced on the N900 with Meego and an updated official Nolo (which is now discussed in the release team) Nov 12 16:22:56 tobis87: Meego has no security framework as of now Nov 12 16:22:57 yes, my point Nov 12 16:23:03 tobis87: Sure, N8x0 had that capability too. Nov 12 16:23:04 tobis87: ^^^ Nov 12 16:23:08 javispedro: 1.2 :) Nov 12 16:23:12 :( Nov 12 16:23:33 No, but It will be used any time in the future. Nov 12 16:23:42 DocScrutinizer: ARGH! The evil capitalists ARE GOING TO PUSH DRM TO YOUR N900!! Nov 12 16:24:27 javispedro: I'd go to bed with capitalists and not touch security fw apologets with a 5 yards pole Nov 12 16:24:38 * javispedro goes grab aluminum foil Nov 12 16:24:58 DocScrutinizer: hehe, I understand, just joking :) Nov 12 16:25:48 I also don't like SELinux or Apparmor. Grsecurity is somehow nice, because it includes PaX. Nov 12 16:25:59 HELL, if they at least were paid properly for that shit they do Nov 12 16:26:04 the fact that Nokia seems to be willing to spend the effort to push the security stuff to the N900 worries me Nov 12 16:26:18 because that means future ovi store will clearly require drm... Nov 12 16:26:27 But the code is all in the open, you can play with it now. Nov 12 16:26:53 meego-security on gitorious. Nov 12 16:27:05 DocScrutinizer: why, they are not paid? Nov 12 16:27:11 If nobody looks at the code before it ends up in devices, who do we blame :) Nov 12 16:27:19 X-Fade: nuclear device specs are also in the open now - suggest to play with that too? Nov 12 16:27:30 point is though, theyll be wanting ovi drm because commercial developers will want it, and persuading commercial developers that drm isnt a "good idea" isnt helped by incidents such as the rampant piracy of webos games all over tmo the day preenv hit the repos Nov 12 16:27:46 DocScrutinizer: That is a lot less safe. Nov 12 16:27:48 what sort of drm does android have? Nov 12 16:28:03 nidO: I've put it many times that webos does have a trivial copy protection, and no game uses it. Nov 12 16:28:12 nidO: case in point, preenv will refuse to run such games. Nov 12 16:28:18 nidO: no complains about it yet. Nov 12 16:28:41 sorry, I have to take a break not to get too offensive. I guess everybody willing to listen got my point Nov 12 16:28:48 It is also sad that there is no easy way to legally get these games. Nov 12 16:29:00 no, without a pre no. Nov 12 16:29:11 I would be willing to pay for them, but I can't. Nov 12 16:29:26 and I bet that the situation is not going to improve... Nov 12 16:29:29 I'd wish. Nov 12 16:29:49 khertan_: lol... your next tweet will be "gregjroberts: who are you?" :) Nov 12 16:29:56 Yeah, it only serves as an example for piracy now though :( Nov 12 16:30:05 I paid for my N900 and I AM NOT INTERESTED in somebody locking up next PR with crypto+DRM bullshit, so you can legally pay for OVI crap Nov 12 16:30:43 DocScrutinizer: i actually agree with you... Nov 12 16:30:45 cya peeps Nov 12 16:30:48 * Noobmonk3y washes his mouth out Nov 12 16:30:52 ciao Nov 12 16:31:10 X-Fade: yes, and also causes extra work on tmo mods :( Nov 12 16:31:14 DocScrutinizer: well if you don't wanna, you could always reflash with an earlier FW without the stuff you don't want Nov 12 16:31:17 Noobmonk3y, :) Nov 12 16:31:21 DocScrutinizer: but I of course got your point Nov 12 16:31:22 ;) Nov 12 16:31:39 javispedro: Yeah, it is so cool from a tech pov, but the abuse is the dark side of it. Nov 12 16:32:00 Venemo: try to flash PR1.2 and restore your apps - enjoy MUHAHAHABWAHAHA Nov 12 16:32:05 X-Fade: it is also not cool from a tech pov, it was plainly easy...... Nov 12 16:32:15 DocScrutinizer: :( Nov 12 16:32:23 It should give developers an idea that it is viable to develop games for both platforms in one go. Nov 12 16:32:45 javispedro, noticing a trend that your apps cause more work for departments. Nov 12 16:33:21 Drm ? where to ? Nov 12 16:33:23 lcuk: I guess I should start making themes instead ;) Nov 12 16:33:39 DocScrutinizer: but I don't get what the problem with Ovi DRM is. for any commercial developer this it is kind of a blocker not to have one, isn't it? Nov 12 16:33:39 javispedro: you could make notepad for maemo ;) Nov 12 16:34:01 Venemo: yeah, that's exactly why there is no software available for Windows anymore Nov 12 16:34:03 Hmm need to go through immigration, let's see. bbl or bbiab ;) Nov 12 16:34:11 lol X-Fade Nov 12 16:34:13 cya X-Fade Nov 12 16:34:22 why #FF Nov 12 16:34:28 is everyone verging on dublin today? Nov 12 16:34:33 BCMM: well, I can understand both standpoints Nov 12 16:34:40 lol javis Nov 12 16:34:45 Noobmonk3y: I wish I could go there, but I can't Nov 12 16:34:51 khertan_: why not? :) - just cos i read all your tmo blurb etc, doesnt mean i can't #ff you :) Nov 12 16:34:57 Venemo: me too :( Nov 12 16:35:28 Noobmonk3y, hum ... maybe ... just that i didn't understand what it s mean :) Nov 12 16:35:35 Follow firday Nov 12 16:35:54 i dont use it often, but the idea is my followers follow people i put in the #ff tags Nov 12 16:36:18 'follow friday' Nov 12 16:36:25 ah ... ok :) this explain the long list of nickname :) Nov 12 16:36:35 ie on a friday, people post #ff posts to show other followers decent people to follow :) Nov 12 16:36:38 yup :0 Nov 12 16:36:50 search twitter for #ff you'll see thousands of others Nov 12 16:37:18 What about indecent people to follow? Nov 12 16:37:22 They're far more fun. Nov 12 16:37:31 sexy saturday Nov 12 16:37:34 Noobmonk3y: just the flight ticket to Dublin and back would cost me almost a month's salary, hehe Nov 12 16:37:46 Noobmonk3y: this is the problem with part-time jobs Nov 12 16:37:57 Venemo: i could have driven but cant afford to drive, let alone fly and stay on someones floor atm ;) Nov 12 16:38:23 just moved with the missus so my monthly free income is about £200 atm! lol - most of that goes on ciggies lol Nov 12 16:38:23 * ShadowJK screams at ovi maps Nov 12 16:38:36 Noobmonk3y: lol Nov 12 16:38:40 ShadowJK: why is that? Nov 12 16:38:41 ShadowJK: when you scream at ovi maps, compare it to screaming in space..... Nov 12 16:39:43 DocScrutinizer: Do you really think, they would backport that "security" framework to Maemo for Pr1.4? That would be too much work, Nokia also doesn't backport important driver fixes, e.g. wl12xx power fix. Nov 12 16:39:45 I search for "Backlandsvägen", and it offers me "Bäcklandintie" and "Mäkitie" Nov 12 16:40:08 ShadowJK: seems it does not know that location Nov 12 16:40:36 tobis87: well I don't think there'll be any more PRs after 1.3 Nov 12 16:40:41 actually, "Mäkitie" is in the right place Nov 12 16:40:42 Hehe, a bit it was :) Nov 12 16:40:52 it just translated it into another language Nov 12 16:41:03 just in case I didn't want to use the local language Nov 12 16:41:32 tobis87: only reason I could see that happening is if N900 becomes useless to consumer without it (for ex. if they force current ovi store to have DRM) Nov 12 16:41:41 ShadowJK: umm, which city? Nov 12 16:41:47 tobis87: even then I'd find that unlikely *relief* Nov 12 16:41:53 Venemo: Yes, I also think so. If you don't install Meego you won't get the security framework in the future. Nov 12 16:42:02 ShadowJK: so it is not a bug but a feature? Nov 12 16:42:09 Turski, it's in the countryside Nov 12 16:42:10 javispedro: I only see that if they do a consumer version of MeeGo for N900. No other way. Nov 12 16:42:20 Regarding my sbrsh problem: Rather than using `sbrsh --remote' I added a matching user to the N900 (sbrshd was already running at this point) with this commands sequcence: http://pastebin.com/heHWaCLL . The ~/.sbrsh config file is still the same http://pastebin.com/2pTKfNWG. Unfortunately the error is still the same as well: http://pastebin.com/CGQTrs8f Nov 12 16:42:35 Venemo, yeah except not even people living there know the names in both languages Nov 12 16:42:58 X-Fade: I don't think it is likely to happen Nov 12 16:43:17 Venemo: Me neither :) Nov 12 16:43:17 Woo, converted another iPhone user. Nov 12 16:43:18 X-Fade: maybe there'll be a community MeeGo for N900, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon Nov 12 16:43:27 GAN900: congrats Nov 12 16:43:30 Venemo: there's one already :) Nov 12 16:43:39 man, the govt is really going overboard on getting rid of the UK's ID card info Nov 12 16:43:41 DocScrutinizer: going back to the thing Nov 12 16:43:41 GAN900: too bad. Meego going to be the worse iOS Nov 12 16:43:54 DocScrutinizer, N900. Nov 12 16:44:10 javispedro: the one that I've seen on videos is just plain awful... Nov 12 16:44:13 hm, I think its an ssh issue Nov 12 16:44:17 javispedro: not worth to replace good old Maemo yet Nov 12 16:44:44 GAN900: isn't maemo declared 'dead' for N900, and everybody recommends devels should move to meego and its security framwork bullshit? Nov 12 16:45:00 javispedro: maybe if we did a MeeGo release with Hildon-Desktop instead of that crappy Handset UX thing Nov 12 16:45:04 DocScrutinizer: i meant that you can't replace nolo with uboot + kernel image because 1st stage bootloader has limits on size Nov 12 16:45:28 Venemo: well, I don't see what you'd win Nov 12 16:45:31 make hildon do portrait :-P Nov 12 16:45:31 I never suggested that Nov 12 16:45:32 lol Nov 12 16:45:38 javispedro: a nice UI Nov 12 16:45:40 Venemo: other than a potentially nicer userspace Nov 12 16:45:48 * Macer hides Nov 12 16:45:49 is there a easy way to listen to a shoutcast server using a n900 with pr1.3? Nov 12 16:45:49 kacmy question was if we could bundle NOLO and uBoot Nov 12 16:45:50 Venemo: I mean by replacing Maemo with Meego. Nov 12 16:45:54 DocScrutinizer, Given that Qt used for development no Maemo, the port to MeeGo should be too hard Nov 12 16:45:58 on* Nov 12 16:45:58 Venemo: while keeping h-d. Nov 12 16:46:10 sar3th: Yes, the mediaplayer. Nov 12 16:46:14 shoudn't* Nov 12 16:46:17 MaikB: completely point-missing Nov 12 16:46:20 meh typos meh Nov 12 16:46:21 javispedro: compatibility with MeeGo's rpm repos, but keeping the current (superior) UI Nov 12 16:46:32 X-Fade, please elaborate Nov 12 16:46:41 Doc, enlighten me Nov 12 16:46:48 jacekowski: my question was if we could bundle NOLO and uBoot Nov 12 16:47:00 Venemo: cant people do that? Nov 12 16:47:12 MaikB: meego is *EVIL* Nov 12 16:47:13 Macer: what do you mean? Nov 12 16:47:16 i mean... what is stopping you now? Nov 12 16:47:18 sar3th: There are 4 icons in that app, which one would you think? Nov 12 16:47:19 DocScrutinizer: that's a no-go as well, uboot itself is 30% bigger than nolo Nov 12 16:47:27 Macer: what's stopping me from what? Nov 12 16:47:29 jacekowski: not necessarily on the nolo partition Nov 12 16:47:29 DocScrutinizer: but that can be worked around Nov 12 16:47:32 (I Guess) Nov 12 16:47:40 javispedro: no space left on mtd Nov 12 16:47:40 sar3th: Internet Radio, rings a bell? :) Nov 12 16:47:44 yes Nov 12 16:47:47 that would require completly new fiasco image Nov 12 16:47:51 but how do i select the server then? Nov 12 16:47:54 esspecialy rootfs image Nov 12 16:47:56 i.e. add my own one Nov 12 16:48:03 sar3th: click on the top. Nov 12 16:48:12 sar3th: add radio bookmark. Nov 12 16:48:29 jacekowski: tbh I do not know what this discussion is about so I probably shouldn't participate, but current uboot does install a (uboot+stockkernel) bundle in current kernel mtd partition. Nov 12 16:48:31 jacekowski: :nod: Nov 12 16:48:35 then http://server:8000 as url? Nov 12 16:48:39 and that ought to work? Nov 12 16:48:46 sar3th: Yes. Nov 12 16:49:02 EVIL is a term that is used to scare the simple minded so they follow. Nov 12 16:49:05 ok, thanks X-Fade Nov 12 16:49:11 Good luck with such an approach among developers Nov 12 16:49:15 didn't know it really was that simple >_< Nov 12 16:49:15 Venemo: putting hiln in meego? Nov 12 16:49:23 I didnt work in the past, and it won't work in the future Nov 12 16:49:42 :) problem with an idea is that it usually dies as one Nov 12 16:50:23 DocScrutinizer, on multiple occasions its been mentioned about your harsh OTT descriptions of things, sure we know and understand things aren't always to your satisfaction, but you certainly know how to push the FUD down. Nov 12 16:50:23 Macer: well what's stopping me is that there is no reason to do so yet Nov 12 16:50:35 why not? Nov 12 16:50:43 no working n900 meego yet? Nov 12 16:50:44 jacekowski: so uBoot pkg had to package preinst any actually used kernel with uBoot binary, prior to flashing it. It also should replace/override the local flasher call to flash a kernel SSU way, by same wrapping-up toolkit invocation Nov 12 16:50:47 :) Nov 12 16:51:06 ppl Nov 12 16:51:06 Macer: because I know of no MeeGo repos that would contain more stuff than the current Maemo repos Nov 12 16:51:13 where are sms messages? Nov 12 16:51:18 Macer: so unti MeeGo becomes mainstream, this would be a waste Nov 12 16:51:23 Venemo: make your own repo Nov 12 16:51:29 i've got an sms from unknown number, minimized it, and it lost after reboot Nov 12 16:51:32 lcuk: ??? mind to get more specific please? Nov 12 16:51:32 i need the history Nov 12 16:51:36 Macer: why on earth would I want to do that? :) Nov 12 16:51:38 is it possible to get it in maemo? Nov 12 16:51:47 Venemo: to kick start it Nov 12 16:51:47 Macer: also some basic drivers for the N900 are not okay yet in MeeGo Nov 12 16:51:52 i don't use phone as phone that much so I do not know how to use it Nov 12 16:51:53 DocScrutinizer: Meego is not evil (currently), Harmattan is ;) Nov 12 16:52:06 ok, granted Nov 12 16:52:10 javispedro: yeah, but Harmattan is not MeeGo Nov 12 16:52:13 Venemo: lol. yeah. the hw is always a problem Nov 12 16:52:16 same for mer Nov 12 16:52:25 nokia are hw nazis Nov 12 16:52:25 sorry for this lack of precision Nov 12 16:52:33 Macer: I believe the guys will get it right sometime Nov 12 16:53:03 Macer: there's been lots of work on it. compare the current status with two months ago Nov 12 16:53:07 GeneralAntilles1: ping Nov 12 16:53:20 DocScrutinizer: but thing is that we can replace nolo with uboot Nov 12 16:53:37 DocScrutinizer: as long as uboot will be capable of setting up everything Nov 12 16:53:44 jacekowski: we actually can? that'd be SO NICE Nov 12 16:54:06 * javispedro doesn't think it's that simple Nov 12 16:54:09 fcrochik, yeeessss? Nov 12 16:54:21 short search in google did not bring any results Nov 12 16:54:22 doubt before the n900 is obsolete Nov 12 16:54:34 No NOLO, No securtity framework conquering my hardware Nov 12 16:54:42 GAN900: it seems that we are going to be on the same plane going to meego... Nov 12 16:54:46 it is very obvious, but I don't know how to use phone as a phone, so I have no idea where are sms messages inbox Nov 12 16:54:54 in maemo Nov 12 16:54:57 fcrochik, #meego for meego chatter Nov 12 16:54:59 :P Nov 12 16:55:26 Macer: anyway, MeeGo is coming along nicely, but its current state is pathetic Nov 12 16:55:29 lcuk: sorry.... but I can't get over with maemo :) Nov 12 16:55:39 DocScrutinizer, not one person will force you to install anything on your machine. Nov 12 16:55:50 fcrochik, sure Nov 12 16:55:54 the evil will come pre-installed? :) Nov 12 16:56:17 lcuk: sure about that? How am I supposed to install any app pkg to my PR1.2 then? Nov 12 16:56:38 GAN900: have you planned how you are getting to the hotel? Nov 12 16:56:39 DocScrutinizer, I said, force Nov 12 16:56:46 its all choice Nov 12 16:56:49 DocScrutinizer: don't worry, if a PR update comes with DRM forced I will start mirroring -devel myself =) Nov 12 16:56:54 if theres nice candy and you want some Nov 12 16:56:58 yeah, nobody can force me to breathe the smog Nov 12 16:56:59 javispedro: i know how to replace nolo Nov 12 16:57:03 javispedro: and it's very simple Nov 12 16:57:14 javispedro: deal Nov 12 16:57:17 jacekowski: "replacing" might be, getting it to work... Nov 12 16:57:38 * lcuk still runs windows XP on my desktop Nov 12 16:57:39 * MohammadAG gets out a knife and stabs HAM Nov 12 16:57:42 well uboot is doing lot of this stuff anyways Nov 12 16:57:49 anyway, what would you guys gain by replacing nolo? Nov 12 16:57:56 jacekowski: but not all of it, I guess. Nov 12 16:57:57 Venemo: rule the world Nov 12 16:57:59 Venemo, a more open device Nov 12 16:58:04 oh... :) Nov 12 16:58:07 okay Nov 12 16:58:09 that's still closed Nov 12 16:58:22 MohammadAG, I asked in part about this - the install an extra package which does all this does seem the easest? Nov 12 16:58:24 MohammadAG: so what's up with HAM? or it is still the usual? Nov 12 16:58:48 Venemo, SSU issues, you know about them :) Nov 12 16:59:14 lcuk, we already install 2 packages for the SSU to work, and it doesn't, HAM ignores my packages Nov 12 16:59:28 javispedro: seems you have to start mirroring *before* they mess up the official repo just another time Nov 12 16:59:33 javispedro: and that's why i'm waiting for ali1234 to ask some questions about what exactly is supported Nov 12 16:59:50 javispedro: as i'm not familiar with uboot at all and he done most of work already Nov 12 17:00:04 MohammadAG: so the usual Nov 12 17:00:23 MohammadAG: why don't you do it like the guy who did the Diablo community SSU did? Nov 12 17:00:24 ok, about time to board. See you all in Dublin :) Nov 12 17:00:28 indeed Nov 12 17:00:30 Well, some of you :) Nov 12 17:00:38 on a non related note, thunderbird is awesome Nov 12 17:00:43 bon voyage X-Fade Nov 12 17:00:50 heh, safe trip X-Fade Nov 12 17:01:07 Venemo, I did, it's not working Nov 12 17:01:12 hey, ppl Nov 12 17:01:18 MohammadAG, eek Nov 12 17:01:30 Is he nuts? No, he's insane. Nov 12 17:01:33 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-November/027884.html Venemo Nov 12 17:01:47 it's really not hard, anybody who use maemo as a phone know where is it, it's so obvious: where are sms inbox? Nov 12 17:01:59 MohammadAG: ouch Nov 12 17:02:05 Menu -> Conversations Nov 12 17:02:08 norayr, conversations Nov 12 17:02:10 for unknown numbers, not address book contacts Nov 12 17:02:27 Thaaanks Nov 12 17:02:28 norayr: go to the application menu, then launch the Conversations app Nov 12 17:02:34 thanks :) Nov 12 17:02:35 found it Nov 12 17:02:36 :) Nov 12 17:02:42 norayr: all of your SMS and IM conversations will be there Nov 12 17:02:43 i didn't use maemo as phone Nov 12 17:02:49 norayr: no problem Nov 12 17:02:50 thanks Nov 12 17:02:54 s/will/should :P Nov 12 17:02:59 norayr: you're welcome Nov 12 17:03:28 norayr: took me some days as well until I finally run nto it Nov 12 17:03:37 thunderbird's downloading 2747/2746 Nov 12 17:03:47 I thought only windows failed there? :) Nov 12 17:04:12 :) Nov 12 17:04:24 MohammadAG: Consider if a new message arrives when downloading. Nov 12 17:04:26 DocScrutinizer: :) Nov 12 17:04:37 SpeedEvil, no messages arrived :) Nov 12 17:04:38 on a related note: stopwatch app offers seconds selection list 0..58 :-P Nov 12 17:04:49 lol Nov 12 17:05:04 :) Nov 12 17:05:12 lol, it just did Nov 12 17:05:23 (an email) Nov 12 17:05:29 hehe Nov 12 17:07:47 stopwatch, the new 'hello world' Nov 12 17:08:03 yep :-D Nov 12 17:08:17 pupnik_: no, the new hello world is making a blog engine Nov 12 17:08:52 see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/471940/why-does-every-man-and-his-dog-want-to-code-a-blogging-engine Nov 12 17:09:03 'hello worl' in this case Nov 12 17:10:01 I'm so happy I got no dog :-P Nov 12 17:10:06 lol :D Nov 12 17:13:55 lol is true. Nov 12 17:14:04 I've also made a blogging engine... Nov 12 17:14:09 time ago. Nov 12 17:14:19 * mgedmin is tempted to write one Nov 12 17:14:44 Venemo, it used to be that kids would write a media player as their hello world. Nov 12 17:14:55 lcuk :) Nov 12 17:15:01 lcuk: on VB, definitely (mci ;) ) Nov 12 17:15:17 lcuk: (I at least did it) Nov 12 17:15:59 I thought the new Hello, World was Kon' nichi wah Nov 12 17:16:10 waaaaaaaah! Nov 12 17:17:36 swype is kinda awesome Nov 12 17:18:16 you need some time to get used to it, but after that it's very quick to use Nov 12 17:27:32 MohammadAG: on the N900? Nov 12 17:27:44 nah Nov 12 17:27:50 N8 Nov 12 17:28:34 lcuk: (mediaplayer) now I got it where maemo mediaplayer comes from :-P Nov 12 17:29:08 Right, got loads to do, see you all later folks. Nov 12 17:29:45 cya alterego Nov 12 17:30:06 * MohammadAG sets ban on alterego*!*@* Nov 12 17:30:35 MohammadAG: you have an N8? Nov 12 17:31:00 it's not exactly mine, but yes, it's in the house :P Nov 12 17:31:05 Something is very broken .. Nov 12 17:31:11 But I can't fix it now :( Nov 12 17:31:56 alterego: what is broken? Nov 12 17:32:00 MohammadAG: is it any good? Nov 12 17:32:12 is qt mobile as bloated as kde used to feel on slower PCs? Nov 12 17:32:18 Venemo, yeah, it's way better than symbian^1 Nov 12 17:32:30 like, ridiculous delays when clicking on things... Nov 12 17:32:58 pupnik_: not really Nov 12 17:33:32 MohammadAG: compared to Maemo 5? Nov 12 17:33:43 Not as good as m5 Nov 12 17:33:46 the UI is smoother, a lot smoother Nov 12 17:33:49 imo, Nov 12 17:33:49 Venemo: if it were my choice, i'd reserve a budget for a 'lag hit squad' Nov 12 17:33:52 the functionality otoh... Nov 12 17:34:22 and espectially as things run down to crunch time, they'd have some limited override ability to blast through cruft and deliver a speedy UX Nov 12 17:34:26 MohammadAG: otoh=? Nov 12 17:34:38 ~wtf otoh Nov 12 17:34:40 OTOH: on the other hand Nov 12 17:34:50 ~botsmack Nov 12 17:34:50 OWW! Nov 12 17:34:51 sbrsh again: I solved the mounting issues by moving /opt/scratchbox to /scratchbox. Now another problem appears: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > sbrsh /home/maik/dev/gtk_helloworld-1 Nov 12 17:34:51 sbrsh server: Can't open a pseudo-tty (No such file or directory) Nov 12 17:34:54 pupnik: and lag bounties. Nov 12 17:34:55 meh Nov 12 17:35:04 anybody seen this before? Nov 12 17:35:12 pupnik: reduce time of X by Y, get Z Nov 12 17:35:17 MohammadAG: so you thing that N8's UI is better than M5, but functionality is worse? Nov 12 17:35:18 neat Nov 12 17:35:20 MaikB, does the file exist? Nov 12 17:35:32 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > ls /home/maik/dev/gtk_helloworld-1 Nov 12 17:35:32 /home/maik/dev/gtk_helloworld-1 Nov 12 17:35:35 yes Nov 12 17:35:37 Venemo, it's smoother than the iPhone Nov 12 17:35:50 I still like M5's UI more, but it's laggy Nov 12 17:35:55 MohammadAG, still not in extras-devel :| Nov 12 17:36:00 MohammadAG, btw: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > sbrsh ls Nov 12 17:36:00 sbrsh server: Can't open a pseudo-tty (No such file or directory) Nov 12 17:36:08 MohammadAG: mhm Nov 12 17:36:17 something odd is going on Nov 12 17:36:23 Noobmonk3y, poke X-Fade, or fire an RPG that delivers a message to his plane then goes back to earth Nov 12 17:36:33 lol good point, he is on a plane ;) Nov 12 17:36:42 X-Fade: on a plane still? ;) hehe Nov 12 17:37:08 Okay, really going now :P Nov 12 17:37:12 Ciao :D Nov 12 17:37:19 bye alterego Nov 12 17:37:25 * MohammadAG sets another ban on alterego*!*@* Nov 12 17:37:53 MohammadAG, someones app 'shoplist' is already published, and was pushed through over an hour after ours, meh Nov 12 17:38:10 * Noobmonk3y goes on the warpath Nov 12 17:38:19 Noobmonk3y, send a message on the mailing lists :) Nov 12 17:38:27 Noobmonk3y: what are you talking about? Nov 12 17:38:28 meh, will go get pissed instead Nov 12 17:38:45 * MohammadAG takes away Noobmonk3y's bacon Nov 12 17:38:54 Venemo: Just waiting for http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/maecount/0.5.0/ to get into extras devel Nov 12 17:39:05 MohammadAG you evil evil man Nov 12 17:39:18 MohammadAG, there are laws against that. Nov 12 17:39:34 Noobmonk3y: maecount? a new app of yours? :) Nov 12 17:39:34 lcuk, sue me, muhahaha Nov 12 17:39:49 Venemo: loooooooong story!!! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65522 Nov 12 17:39:50 * lcuk tells Susan over MohammadAG Nov 12 17:39:55 lcuk: thank you Nov 12 17:40:03 * MohammadAG burns bacon then sends a live video to Noobmonk3y and lcuk Nov 12 17:40:04 can't beleive the cheek tbh Nov 12 17:40:12 lol MohammadAG Nov 12 17:40:16 MohammadAG, burning bacon is fine ;) Nov 12 17:40:30 burning bacon just acts as a signal Nov 12 17:40:30 * MohammadAG tortures Noobmonk3y by feeding the bacon to his cat Nov 12 17:40:48 * lcuk puts the cat in the smokehouse for a week Nov 12 17:40:49 one could make a pork-chop case for the n900 - out of meat Nov 12 17:40:53 MohammadAG, harsh! my cat died 6 years ago! Nov 12 17:40:55 and then proceeds to eat that instead Nov 12 17:41:02 mmm smoked cat Nov 12 17:41:02 Noobmonk3y, his = mine Nov 12 17:41:14 lol Nov 12 17:41:18 Noobmonk3y: what would this app do? Nov 12 17:41:22 * MohammadAG gives Noobmonk3y his cat Nov 12 17:41:30 counts! Nov 12 17:41:32 Noobmonk3y, is your app 64bit compliant? Nov 12 17:41:46 Venemo: it counts 4 counters, that can reset at different points :P Nov 12 17:41:47 no, it's Y2K complaint Nov 12 17:41:49 lcuk: no Nov 12 17:41:55 Venemo: ie, knitting patterns Nov 12 17:42:26 Noobmonk3y, what happens if I want to count over 4294967295 ? Nov 12 17:42:34 ie a BIG sweater. Nov 12 17:42:35 lcuk: limited to 999 on each atm Nov 12 17:42:40 Noobmonk3y: mhm. Nov 12 17:42:53 you wouldnt luck, the pattern wouldnt need that mean, as it is repetetive Nov 12 17:42:55 Noobmonk3y: will try it next time I knit Nov 12 17:43:01 unless you are covering the moon maybe Nov 12 17:43:11 Venemo: never knitted in my life, which is why i cant test it Nov 12 17:43:14 but took 1 hour to make lol Nov 12 17:43:18 Noobmonk3y: :) Nov 12 17:43:27 and then 3 days to finally get Mo to package it lol Nov 12 17:43:38 Noobmonk3y: I did knitting when I was a kid... it was a creative thing to do Nov 12 17:43:46 lcuk: as you are clever, fancy making a tool that walks users through packaging? ;) Nov 12 17:43:58 Venemo: Now there is the internet and porn, no more knitting :P Nov 12 17:44:21 Noobmonk3y: lol Nov 12 17:44:26 ;) Nov 12 17:44:40 Noobmonk3y, packging is cross platform problem , discussions and stuff are already ongoing about just how to make qt handle it properly Nov 12 17:45:01 use the same packaging system, easy Nov 12 17:45:03 i hear the new qt creator may have something to helop Nov 12 17:45:10 Noobmonk3y: at the first time, it took me 3 days and 10 failed attempts to get to extras-devel Nov 12 17:45:10 even a sensible html guide would help :P Nov 12 17:45:11 unfortunately, meego isn't helping there Nov 12 17:45:11 yip Nov 12 17:45:18 or a linux backend website to walk people through? Nov 12 17:45:36 * Noobmonk3y hugs khertan_ and py2deb etc, was alot easier in python ;) Nov 12 17:46:00 just thinking with a webkit (website etc) - go through each file, then ask for specifics, put them in folders, and end up with 3 files? Nov 12 17:46:06 MohammadAG, deb rpm sis installshield wise pdw msi mac* .tar.gz ....... Nov 12 17:46:12 MohammadAG51: sounds doable though? Nov 12 17:46:17 Noobmonk3y, http://maemo.org/packages/view/maecount/ Nov 12 17:46:28 lcuk, thanks for listing them :P Nov 12 17:46:31 MohammadAG51: ? Nov 12 17:46:32 you forgot ipk Nov 12 17:46:40 MohammadAG, deb rpm sis installshield wise pdw msi mac* .tar.gz ipk ....... Nov 12 17:46:45 ipk? Nov 12 17:46:50 but you get the idea Nov 12 17:46:53 oh Nov 12 17:46:59 iPhone PacKage I think Nov 12 17:47:09 thats what the palm games use Nov 12 17:47:15 and iPhones Nov 12 17:47:29 iwhats? Nov 12 17:47:45 that sounds wrong Nov 12 17:47:50 like iT... k, nevermind Nov 12 17:48:16 lol Nov 12 17:49:15 odd, I started sbrshd from an terminal at the device and it works now Nov 12 17:49:32 this is, the error message doesn't appear Nov 12 17:49:42 howeve, the gtk app won't start Nov 12 17:49:43 meh Nov 12 17:49:54 definitley something up with devel today though Nov 12 17:49:58 really shouldnt take 2+ hours Nov 12 17:50:19 X-Fade: can you remotely give extras-devel/packager a kick up the ass from 30,000 feet? ;) Nov 12 17:51:01 Noobmonk3y, it's in devel Nov 12 17:51:08 cant see it on my device :| Nov 12 17:52:59 can anyone see maecount in extras devel? (Education) Nov 12 18:05:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LGW8urTOs&feature=player_embedded Nov 12 18:05:49 r Nov 12 18:06:04 evidently my new user account isn't allowed to start X apps Nov 12 18:06:18 it is Nov 12 18:06:24 just not allowed to connect to X server Nov 12 18:06:50 xserver by default accepts only connections from user that started it Nov 12 18:07:15 the X server is started by `user' rather than root? Nov 12 18:07:16 wow Nov 12 18:07:41 yes. Nov 12 18:07:55 Noobmonk3y: # apt-get install maecount --dry-run does find the package after apt-get update (extras-devel enabled) Nov 12 18:08:11 Most of the user-interface is run as user Nov 12 18:08:48 hm, I added another users because I couldn't get my scratchbox home folder to mount properly Nov 12 18:08:58 but the root of the problem was something different Nov 12 18:09:20 maybe I'll give sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user another shot Nov 12 18:09:32 cancel the maybe Nov 12 18:10:30 Err - I'm talking about the actual device Nov 12 18:10:32 Noobmonk3y: and it shows up in HAM (Educational), as expected :) Nov 12 18:10:46 SpeedEvil: I do as well Nov 12 18:11:02 sbrsh is supposed to run binaries on the actual device Nov 12 18:14:29 * Noobmonk3y goes hunting Nov 12 18:14:49 thanks iDont Nov 12 18:15:17 np Nov 12 18:15:56 Hello Nov 12 18:16:00 can I set a password for my local user? Nov 12 18:16:08 meh Nov 12 18:16:11 i still can't see it Nov 12 18:16:22 wtf is up with my device (and yes, checked it is enabled!) Nov 12 18:16:31 pyther: yes Nov 12 18:17:01 is it? Nov 12 18:19:54 how can I regenerate the sudo file? Nov 12 18:25:21 disabled, re-enabled extras-devel, meh still not there? Nov 12 18:25:27 is there a way to reset the catalogues? Nov 12 18:25:32 on the device i mean Nov 12 18:26:17 the ubiquitous Dneary weighs-in http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2010/11/the-meego-progress-report-a-or-d/ Nov 12 18:33:23 ok tis not just me Nov 12 18:33:29 kathy can't refresh the catalogues either Nov 12 18:33:32 hmmmmmmm Nov 12 18:34:34 Noobmonk3y: apt-get update is working fine here Nov 12 18:34:37 strange Nov 12 18:35:09 trying again! Nov 12 18:36:55 nope didnt work Nov 12 18:36:57 meh meh meh Nov 12 18:37:36 For the sake of debugging I try to start conboy rather than an app compiled on my desktop. As expected. `sbrsh conboy' does nothing, since it will start the process as something different than the user `user' Nov 12 18:37:45 but: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user conboy Nov 12 18:37:45 Starting conboy, Version 0.6.7.0 Nov 12 18:37:45 HILDON INIT Nov 12 18:37:55 and nothing happen on the device Nov 12 18:37:56 meh Nov 12 18:43:34 no xhost on the n900 Nov 12 18:44:50 is there a picture viewer that can simply load pictures from a directory? Nov 12 18:46:20 going home for the weekend. Later all Nov 12 18:49:36 pyther: I use geeqie for this, it compiles nicely without any dependencies in Scratchbox/is available in Easy Debian. Nov 12 18:50:35 iDont: thanks, looks like it might work Nov 12 18:53:03 pyther: you can configure the layout of the app under edit -> preferences -> configure this window. The default configuration isn't veru usefull for small screens ;) Nov 12 18:53:25 *very useful Nov 12 18:55:25 gah I can't remember the password to my virtualbox debian install Nov 12 19:05:47 javispedro: hey Nov 12 19:05:51 javispedro: there? Nov 12 19:05:55 sivang: yep Nov 12 19:06:15 javispedro: great, I tried to answer you on the ML and CC'd you as well re: windowActivateEvent Nov 12 19:06:41 javispedro: now, in you email, you told me about nokia keeping closed dead simple stuff Nov 12 19:06:53 javispedro: is there a specific example we can provide at the talk? (I'm preparing slides) Nov 12 19:07:34 javispedro: also if you can find the link to last nights hectice IRC chat with Dawn that would be great :) Nov 12 19:07:39 javispedro: sorry for bugging, though Nov 12 19:07:50 javispedro: I'm doing this and preparing for travel at the same time :p Nov 12 19:07:57 last minute packing, etc Nov 12 19:07:59 :) Nov 12 19:08:52 sivang: you mean http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2010-11-11.log.html#t2010-11-11T19:22:35 ? Nov 12 19:12:50 javispedro: great, so you refer me to the issue that is in public accaptance testing and is till a private bug :) Nov 12 19:12:57 javispedro: is that it? this is fine, just making sure Nov 12 19:13:10 sivang: uh? Nov 12 19:14:02 * javispedro doesn't understand, my brain is somewhere else atm Nov 12 19:14:51 javispedro: so in your email, yousaid that dead simple stuff that are obvious to bne open should be open, did you have a specific example? Nov 12 19:15:05 a Nov 12 19:15:07 javispedro: this is a very god point, I am trying to find a specific exmaple Nov 12 19:15:14 and even good point Nov 12 19:15:18 well, I'm personally thinking of all the user applications :) Nov 12 19:15:29 or bme Nov 12 19:15:32 javispedro: like the address book? Nov 12 19:15:35 DocScrutinizer^^ Nov 12 19:16:00 sivang: yep, for example Nov 12 19:16:09 javispedro: okay, thanks this is much more clear now Nov 12 19:17:01 javispedro: modest is not fos or is it? Nov 12 19:17:04 or the specifications of what xprot does, or ... Nov 12 19:17:05 javispedro: I mean, the Maemo one Nov 12 19:17:10 sivang: modest is oss Nov 12 19:17:14 okay Nov 12 19:17:44 wich was the app mohammedag wanted to add turning support and couldn't due to it being closed? Nov 12 19:17:58 MohammadAG^^ Nov 12 19:18:08 javispedro: what's xport? (X protocl?) Nov 12 19:18:38 sivang: no, xprot. a filter that "protects speakers" implemented as a closed pulseaudio plugin Nov 12 19:18:46 [sbrsh] Did anybody here successfully run a graphical application on a N900 via sbrsh?? Nov 12 19:18:48 http://cool900.blogspot.com/2009/11/closed-source-components-in-maemo-5.html Nov 12 19:18:49 javispedro, Mohammad,moo Nov 12 19:19:27 hello I am French, I have a big problem with the kernel 45, can not reflash. can you help me? Nov 12 19:19:52 sivang: you might also want to ping Stskeeps, he knows better than me the entire list of closed stuff, and also what he need to pull for Meego Nov 12 19:19:55 with version 45. nothing does not flash. Nov 12 19:19:55 after having run the flasher,, plug the N900 while holding the u key on, the phone shows the nokia logo with the usb on the top right, but this one direct to reboot the little penguin ... Nov 12 19:19:55 I do not know what to do, I do not know either if my battery is charging (no orange LED on or on a wall or on USB) Nov 12 19:19:55 thank you for your help Nov 12 19:20:12 hello RST38h Nov 12 19:23:54 MaikB: which way are you going Nov 12 19:23:58 person did the same problem? Nov 12 19:24:02 MaikB: app running on n900 connecting to display on PC Nov 12 19:24:09 MaikB: or what Nov 12 19:24:22 javispedro: anything particular to highlight me? Nov 12 19:24:34 MaikB: and are you exporting DISPLAY variable Nov 12 19:24:53 DocScrutinizer: because I remember you once talking about how simple the n900-bme must be and ranted about reasoning not to publish it. is that true? Nov 12 19:25:10 jacekowski: I try to start an app inside scratchbox and want it to run on the device Nov 12 19:25:17 jacekowski: sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user run-standalone.sh conboy DISPLAY=192.168.0.102:0 Nov 12 19:25:27 javispedro: mostly Nov 12 19:25:47 javispedro: I said crappy and full of cruft - I guess. No 'simple' Nov 12 19:26:08 i see Nov 12 19:26:11 jacekowski: I decided to use conboy to test if I can get any X-app running Nov 12 19:26:34 MaikB: wrong Nov 12 19:26:44 ok Nov 12 19:28:03 try hmm Nov 12 19:28:37 sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user run-standalone.sh bash -c "DISPLAY=192.168.0.102:0 conboy" Nov 12 19:28:58 RST38h, you not coming to the conference? Nov 12 19:29:05 jacekowski: same result Nov 12 19:29:43 please ? Nov 12 19:29:45 what do you get as error Nov 12 19:30:18 the debug log of sbrshd says: return code 1 Nov 12 19:30:32 empty stdout Nov 12 19:31:07 jacekowski: thats the output inside scratchbox: http://pastebin.com/ZyvWVBGb Nov 12 19:31:20 20,000 goblins Nov 12 19:31:40 jacekowski: the ~/.sbrsh http://pastebin.com/4qLMq7N4 Nov 12 19:32:30 ah Nov 12 19:32:33 stupid me Nov 12 19:32:47 sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user run-standalone.sh bash -c "DISPLAY=:0 conboy" Nov 12 19:32:57 Hi Nov 12 19:33:09 DocScrutinizer: you pinged me 4h ago? "chrissbx: o/ AYE" Nov 12 19:33:22 sorry ETAB Nov 12 19:33:38 aha. np Nov 12 19:33:42 jacekowski: I'm getting more output: http://pastebin.com/tn09Wnsr Nov 12 19:34:12 jacekowski: but I have an simple gtk around Nov 12 19:34:16 I gonna test it now Nov 12 19:34:30 MaikB: anything on screen? Nov 12 19:34:39 jacekowski: no Nov 12 19:34:40 on a phone Nov 12 19:35:31 jacekowski: the simple gtk app runs Nov 12 19:35:37 jacekowski: thx a ton Nov 12 19:35:46 i rule Nov 12 19:35:48 the dbus error is another issue Nov 12 19:35:49 you do Nov 12 19:35:50 XD Nov 12 19:38:44 jacekowski: I guess the dbus error is related to the sandboxing that sbrsh does by default Nov 12 19:38:50 but I'm happy for now Nov 12 19:41:34 sbrsh sh -c "DISPLAY=:0 /home/maik/dev/gtk_helloworld-1" Nov 12 19:41:36 works as well Nov 12 19:42:19 using DISPLAY=:0 and wrapping the whole command with sh -c does the trick Nov 12 19:42:24 I made a note Nov 12 19:42:33 :] Nov 12 19:53:21 panic kernel please ? Nov 12 20:05:57 a friend said she saw a Tux and scrolling text (sounded like a typical Linux framebuffer bootup) on her n900. why would that have happened? Nov 12 20:06:12 (it then played the Hands video and started normally) Nov 12 20:07:18 uBoot Nov 12 20:07:27 ? Nov 12 20:08:13 or power/moh kernel, both titan and MohammadAG like to enable fb (and make the device go thru 5 reboots every now and then :-P) Nov 12 20:09:25 actually early pre-alpha hostmode kernels had fb boot console Nov 12 20:11:56 javispedro: could you think a problem in open sourcing the application manager? Nov 12 20:12:08 javispedro: or why one would not want to do so? Nov 12 20:13:05 it is open Nov 12 20:13:21 :P Nov 12 20:13:55 is there any app in repo which lets youtube search based on date? Nov 12 20:13:58 afaik... Nov 12 20:14:28 I want to watch few episodes of Merlin, but Mediabox search comes out with a random mix. Nov 12 20:18:05 Why doesnt PageUp in xtem give the command history? Nov 12 20:29:24 * Aranel_ looking for someone kind enough to give me his /usr/lib/librtcom-eventlogger-ui.so.0 Nov 12 20:32:08 Isn't there any sftp client for n900 with a gui? Nov 12 20:32:27 This is really hard to google because of the noise caused my sftp->n900 threads Nov 12 20:32:34 s/my/by Nov 12 20:33:31 DocScrutinizer, I hate the framebugger, it caused me lots of problems Nov 12 20:33:49 javispedro: you mean h-a-m is open? Nov 12 20:33:56 javispedro: oh :o Nov 12 20:36:06 trumee: maybe shell's keymapping isn't correct for history on page-up? Nov 12 20:36:34 after all that's not an xterm feature Nov 12 20:37:09 DocScrutinizer: i do have the correct .inputrc but it is not being read by bash Nov 12 20:37:56 sivang: yes Nov 12 20:38:53 DocScrutinizer: my .inputrc has "\e[5~":history-search-backward Nov 12 20:39:00 and "\e[6~":history-search-forward Nov 12 20:39:08 trumee, it normally does, but frustratingly, it doesnt save to disk if oyu close with the [X] Nov 12 20:39:28 * MohammadAG wants gnome-terminal Nov 12 20:39:40 at least I can paste with kb shortcuts Nov 12 20:40:04 lcuk:i think "trap exit SIGHUP" might be required in .profile to fix that Nov 12 20:40:36 Mohammad:the toolbar in maemo xterm can be customized just not easily Nov 12 20:40:44 But no Page Up/Down doesnt give any command history at all in a terminal Nov 12 20:40:45 javispedro: k, but addrssbook is a very good example Nov 12 20:40:53 is Buteo open source? Nov 12 20:40:54 Mohammad: So, you can improve things, a little bit Nov 12 20:40:58 trumee, its not an issue normally, the commands I use most are stored because I remembered to ctrl D and ctrl D my way out Nov 12 20:41:02 trumee: are you sure .inputrc doesn't need explicit 'soucing' or whatever, in one of the other standard .profile files? Nov 12 20:41:03 RST38h, gconf, I know Nov 12 20:41:07 yep Nov 12 20:41:11 I just want kb shortcuts :| Nov 12 20:41:11 sivang: Buteo? Nov 12 20:42:00 DocScrutinizer: hmm. wasnt aware that .inputrc needs to be sourced in .prfile Nov 12 20:42:03 javispedro: syncml framework in meego Nov 12 20:42:08 javispedro: seem sos Nov 12 20:42:13 *so Nov 12 20:42:15 sivang: oh, no idea, never used it... Nov 12 20:42:16 * sivang curses latency Nov 12 20:42:17 sivang: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/ Nov 12 20:42:57 Interesting thing is there exists a /etc/inputrc as well Nov 12 20:44:07 javispedro: wow Nov 12 20:44:11 javispedro: rad Nov 12 20:44:12 :) Nov 12 20:45:04 javispedro, ~openness :) Nov 12 20:45:16 HEH Nov 12 20:45:20 err Nov 12 20:45:21 hehe Nov 12 20:45:23 ~tell javispedro about openness Nov 12 20:45:25 sorry for caps Nov 12 20:45:30 ah, interesting. Nov 12 20:45:39 hmm Nov 12 20:45:44 never seen that (~tell) Nov 12 20:45:47 at east I think backup framework is going to be open in meego if not alrady is Nov 12 20:45:50 ~tell MohammadAG about life Nov 12 20:46:01 err, backup framework! the app nees to be popen Nov 12 20:46:05 open Nov 12 20:46:06 sivang: yes, it's improved :) Nov 12 20:46:10 popen is something else Nov 12 20:46:17 javispedro: is the backup program opene? Nov 12 20:46:26 noot "the framework" Nov 12 20:46:40 on Maemo, nope. on Meego, I think there's no app for now =) Nov 12 20:46:55 but the general openess is improving with Meego. Nov 12 20:47:12 the list of closed packages on the n900 image is basically: bme, 3d drivers, and some pulseaudio plugins. Nov 12 20:47:17 *meego n900 image Nov 12 20:47:30 yes Nov 12 20:47:34 also hildon-desktop Nov 12 20:47:37 right? Nov 12 20:47:40 h-d is open :) Nov 12 20:47:45 ah, cool Nov 12 20:47:49 appeared not so in 1.1. Nov 12 20:47:54 uh? Nov 12 20:48:06 hd has always been open Nov 12 20:48:08 Meego has no hildon-desktop,no? Nov 12 20:48:17 RST38h, ha, it has no gtk to work on Nov 12 20:48:38 seems that some parts of h-d were closed O.o Nov 12 20:48:43 http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/Desktop%20framework/hildon-desktop/L7.html Nov 12 20:48:49 no required parts of HD were closed Nov 12 20:48:51 s/were/are Nov 12 20:48:55 most of that closed source stuff is pretty common sense, like 3rd party hardware interface or exchange sync etc, but why "Applications/browser-ui" ? Nov 12 20:48:56 afaik thats the additional settings/config things Nov 12 20:49:21 jarkkom: that's the point, there are some small things that make no sense to keep closed Nov 12 20:49:21 * RST38h is also not sure why the skin-deep browser-ui is closed Nov 12 20:49:22 HD is certainly buildable and usable on other things Nov 12 20:49:44 * MohammadAG had it on his laptop Nov 12 20:49:44 javispedro, though I suspect it might've been outsourced development that Nokia doesn't actually own fully Nov 12 20:49:51 sivang: jarkkom: add in the file manager, which is basically a shim wrapper to the libhildonfm API (foss), and even then it's closed. Nov 12 20:49:53 it has happened before Nov 12 20:50:07 javis: ah, screwthe file manager Nov 12 20:50:11 ~tell MohammadAG about query Nov 12 20:50:16 javis: but I sorely miss browser-ui sources Nov 12 20:50:29 RST38h, right, you're here :) Nov 12 20:50:32 how do I compile xchat? Nov 12 20:50:44 I keep getting errors Nov 12 20:50:48 Mohammad: the usual Nov 12 20:50:53 Mohammad: make Nov 12 20:51:04 what errors? Nov 12 20:51:07 RST38h, libtool Nov 12 20:51:12 mhm? Nov 12 20:51:35 MohammadAG, are you building for meego? Nov 12 20:51:44 nope, I'm trying to fix the damn icon Nov 12 20:51:53 DocScrutinizer: source /home/user/.inputrc returns "-sh: /home/user/.inputrc: line 3: \e[5~:history-search-backward: not found" Nov 12 20:51:54 ah that one Nov 12 20:51:59 then your SB sounds borkened? Nov 12 20:52:00 I spent hours trying to fix it Nov 12 20:52:11 make[5]: Entering directory `/home/mohammad/xchat/xchat-2.8.6/src/common/dbus' Nov 12 20:52:11 /bin/sh ../../../libtool --mode=execute /usr/bin/glib-genmarshal --header --body marshallers.list > marshallers.h Nov 12 20:52:11 ../../../libtool: ../../../libtool: No such file or directory Nov 12 20:52:22 nice Nov 12 20:52:24 javispedro: thanks, that's the best case study I've been looking to Nov 12 20:52:25 lcuk, can't be, tried 4 different installs Nov 12 20:52:30 javispedro: you need to get credits Nov 12 20:52:34 Mohammad: sb2 -eR apt-get install libtool Nov 12 20:52:39 trumee: mhm Nov 12 20:52:43 and the rest here, I have to include something Nov 12 20:52:43 sivang: naa :) Nov 12 20:52:44 MohammadAG, but it builds in the autobuilder and on RST38h's system ? Nov 12 20:52:53 sivang: hope you find more feedback elsewhere too :) Nov 12 20:52:55 I think he just need toinstall damn libtool Nov 12 20:52:57 libtool is already the newest version. RST38h Nov 12 20:52:58 ahhh RST38h you use sb2? Nov 12 20:53:03 lcuk: yes Nov 12 20:53:17 javispedro: same, kindof disappointed of the lack of interest of the ml thread, but it truely shows the current states of affairs Nov 12 20:53:56 Mohammad: I can reboot to Linux and verify, if you wish. It will take 5 minutes, ok? Nov 12 20:54:17 sure :) Nov 12 20:54:26 sivang, which study, where is link to the ML thing Nov 12 20:54:34 I unsubscribed from a load of lists recently Nov 12 20:54:38 hi I am newbie to Maemo and I have a problem with installation of Maemo SDK Nov 12 20:54:39 lcuk, I'm using dpkg-buildpackage, so build deps should be installed Nov 12 20:55:06 MohammadAG, dpkg-buildpackage does not automagically install the deps? Nov 12 20:55:15 it doesn't, but it never continues without them Nov 12 20:55:43 hmm Nov 12 20:55:45 I think I know Nov 12 20:56:28 Ok, I am in Linux Nov 12 20:56:37 RST38h, I think libtool's path is wrong Nov 12 20:56:41 it's looking for it in /home Nov 12 20:56:41 hmm Nov 12 20:57:13 How can I disable updation of specific package in maemo? Nov 12 20:58:08 lcuk, I'm using dpkg-buildpackage, so build deps should be installed Nov 12 20:58:09 err Nov 12 20:59:24 please I see that mostly of you installed Maemo SDK successfully... I only want to get working tools, without them I cant't write anything for Maemo :-/ Nov 12 21:00:08 we can't help if we don't know your problem :) Nov 12 21:00:49 MohammadAG, "apt-get build-dep xchat_or_whateveritis" is the way to install them if you got source from the repo (usually simplest method) Nov 12 21:01:01 lcuk, yep, I know about that, I have all deps Nov 12 21:01:58 MohammadAG: ok I know :-) I've downloaded virtual image from here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/PC/vpc-sdk/ Nov 12 21:02:04 lcuk: a filemanager being closed even though it is using libhildinfm, which is open Nov 12 21:02:29 MohammadAG: and a followed simple installation steps in "Installation" folder link Nov 12 21:02:36 lcuk: my email to the mls about trying ot mak a differnece, only attila , javispedroresponded on the mls, you actually helped through IRC Nov 12 21:02:41 * sivang goes for a break Nov 12 21:02:55 Mohammad: resolved it? Nov 12 21:02:59 sivang, how many layers of abstraction are required before an open source app can have closed source ui capped ontop in yourbook? Nov 12 21:03:10 MohammadAG: but at step 4: Installation of Nokia binaries it writes this error: Nov 12 21:03:14 RST38h, nope Nov 12 21:03:29 ok, I am just refreshing some missing packages at the moment, wait Nov 12 21:03:32 lcuk: EPARSE Nov 12 21:03:48 ah Nov 12 21:04:20 MohammadAG: sb-conf: No such target: FREMANTLE_ARMEL, sbrsh-conf: No current target, Something is wrong with Scratchbox, exiting. Nov 12 21:04:29 lcuk: I'm tired, and no native speaker :) Nov 12 21:04:30 ah, it is fixed now. Turned out bash-setup did not change by shell to /bin/bash. Instead it was still /bin/sh. Once i switch on /bin/bash, .inputrc is being read Nov 12 21:04:40 and I haven't found any solution of this problem.. :-/ Nov 12 21:04:41 lcuk: plesae excuse , but if you elaborate I will read the backlog, have to do a brak Nov 12 21:05:02 sivang, well, the linux kernel is open source, but obviously a great many closed source apps exist on top. how many layers do you think are needed between the open engine and the closed ui? Nov 12 21:05:33 Robot101: Regarding open-sourcing vox-mobile, they plan to do that in the future. The dev from Vox wrote this to me in email "Oh, re: the open sourcing, yeah I imagine that is something we will be doing at some point in the not-too-distant future." Nov 12 21:06:05 RST38h, fixed it Nov 12 21:06:15 lcuk: your question makes no sense with "open source" Nov 12 21:06:23 RST38h, added this line to debian/rules, but I can't see why it's needed Nov 12 21:06:25 # Build the main XChat package Nov 12 21:06:25 ln -s `which libtool` ./libtool Nov 12 21:06:33 it should just find the libtool from $PATH Nov 12 21:06:46 lcuk: as "open source" does not specify the actual license Nov 12 21:07:05 trumee: it's not a choice - it's a derived work of telepathy-sofiasip of which I am one of the authors Nov 12 21:07:17 lcuk: and as you can see at mac os x there does not need to be any "layer" in between Nov 12 21:07:34 they currently have no right to distribute this code *at all* because they are not compliant with the license Nov 12 21:07:40 lcuk: none? Nov 12 21:08:06 I'm assuming this is ignorance rather than malice, so I sent them a polite e-mail yesterday Nov 12 21:08:12 lcuk: I have a closed binary, using an opene source api interface Nov 12 21:08:19 lcuk: how many of those do I need? :) Nov 12 21:08:39 but if they don't reply soon, they will get a less polite message from Collabora's lawyer Nov 12 21:08:45 Robot101: Well you need to remind this to them then. But it is strange that Nokia *officially* endorses since it is on Ovi store. Nov 12 21:08:52 and then if they fail to reply, probably a DMCA takedown request Nov 12 21:09:02 oh cool, we can have it removed from the Ovi store too - it infringes Nokia's rights too Nov 12 21:09:16 but, really, I don't want to be an asshole - its probably just an honest mistake Nov 12 21:09:32 lcuk: the closed source ui is linked against the open source api, that's it. if the lib is lgpl no isse? Nov 12 21:09:33 so that's my initial assumption Nov 12 21:09:35 lcuk: am I missing something? Nov 12 21:09:59 lcuk: the closed ui does t change anything in the lib, so no sources need to be given back Nov 12 21:10:07 * sivang goes to take a break :) Nov 12 21:10:08 no sivand that answers the ponderment doesn't it? so no issue Nov 12 21:10:13 I'd far rather have the source than a lawsuit Nov 12 21:10:22 Robot101: Nokia doesnt provide MWI support. Atleast this app does, it will be a big shame if this app gets killed. Nov 12 21:10:42 trumee: I want their source so I can merge it to tp-sofiasip - then the next devices will have MWI too! Nov 12 21:10:45 lcuk: yes, it does :) Nov 12 21:11:00 Robot101: ++ for that. Nov 12 21:11:21 I was just like, oh thats cool, how do they do it, and I downloaded to take a look Nov 12 21:11:27 Robot101: Hopefully it will be on its way soon as the dev said. Nov 12 21:11:37 and it's our shit, and they didn't give the source, so I e-mailed Nov 12 21:11:59 lcuk: so the conclusion here they just wanted it to be closed? that's it? :) Nov 12 21:12:19 Mohammad: still here? Nov 12 21:12:32 MohammadAG: how you've installed your SDK? Nov 12 21:12:36 sivang, i dont know I havent read historical docs on it Nov 12 21:12:41 ~maemosdk Nov 12 21:12:41 hmm... maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Nov 12 21:12:46 lcuk: okay, nm Nov 12 21:12:50 bbl Nov 12 21:13:16 Mohammad: Please cd to xchat root dir and type sb2 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b Nov 12 21:13:27 Mohammad: this should build the package Nov 12 21:13:47 RST38h, I already pointed out the problem, I was doing that Nov 12 21:13:56 but it's looking for libtool in ./ Nov 12 21:14:02 not for the one in $PATH Nov 12 21:14:11 ln -s `which libtool` ./libtool Nov 12 21:14:11 $(MAKE) Nov 12 21:14:13 fixed it ^ Nov 12 21:14:26 hm, weird Nov 12 21:15:33 attempt #1 to fix, failed Nov 12 21:16:48 i hate u-boot Nov 12 21:17:09 lilo ftw Nov 12 21:17:58 * RST38h finds it funny how FreeBSD's boot manager has no name, takes just one disk block, and manages to work Nov 12 21:19:25 lilo did that Nov 12 21:19:30 not really Nov 12 21:19:38 windows bootloader used to do that Nov 12 21:19:39 lilo never worked on any of 3 laptops I had Nov 12 21:19:51 jacekowski: the dos boot loader, not the windows boot loader Nov 12 21:20:01 * Aranel_ looking for someone kind enough to give me his /usr/lib/librtcom-eventlogger-ui.so.0 Nov 12 21:20:04 well, i'm talking old school Nov 12 21:20:14 where windows was booting from dos Nov 12 21:20:16 not NT stuff Nov 12 21:23:02 haha, dunno who here posted me on WWP, but nice :) Nov 12 21:23:13 And as someone said, OP is a tool :D Nov 12 21:24:15 Mohammad: ok, it builds for me just fine Nov 12 21:24:24 crashanddie, worms world party? Nov 12 21:24:39 RST38h, built fine for me after I did that, couldn't get the icon to work (yet) Nov 12 21:24:39 whyweprotest, chanology/anonymous lair Nov 12 21:25:18 MohamadAG: Damn GTK+ appears to have the icon stuff broken Nov 12 21:26:06 mohammadag: I made a joke-threat pretending that we'd unleashed anonymous on scientology, and that nokia should fear our wrath should they disappoint any further Nov 12 21:26:25 apparently, some anonfag took me seriously :D Nov 12 21:26:38 LOL Nov 12 21:26:54 RST38h, well, I got a binary that makes those messages the hildon way Nov 12 21:26:59 MohammadAG: watching the CoD end credits scroll by Nov 12 21:27:11 interested in a source, maybe you can fix something up? Nov 12 21:27:50 ~seen orlok Nov 12 21:27:54 orlok <~orlock@133.71.233.220.static.exetel.com.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16h 16m 56s ago, saying: 'all the socked anons/channers are turning up'. Nov 12 21:29:26 RST38h, http://pastebin.com/3xybEJpH Nov 12 21:30:40 Mohammad: Where is it supposed to go? Nov 12 21:30:57 LMAO MohammadAG Nov 12 21:31:22 crashanddie, you scare me sometimes Nov 12 21:31:26 MohammadAG: after the end credits, there's an easter egg :D Fidel Castro, Kennedy and some idiots from the white house are together in a bunker Nov 12 21:31:35 lol Nov 12 21:31:38 suddenly, something breaks a window... ZOMBIES Nov 12 21:31:51 newer power kernels don't work with multiboot ? Nov 12 21:31:59 * MohammadAG doesn't get why tryearch likes zombies Nov 12 21:32:52 MohammadAG, popular with gamers. Nov 12 21:33:02 Because it's the only good idea they've ever had Nov 12 21:33:17 GAN900, I'm a gamer, I hate zombie games Nov 12 21:33:22 Otherwise they're just bad at implementing Infinity Ward's ideas. Nov 12 21:33:30 MohammadAG, Left4Dead? Nov 12 21:33:54 GAN900: the last view is a complete ripoff from left4daed Nov 12 21:34:37 GAN900, never played it Nov 12 21:35:44 MohammadAG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyWlUXLsho Nov 12 21:35:47 MohammadAG, ah, well then. Nov 12 21:36:44 trumee: FYI, http://pastebin.ca/1989433 Nov 12 21:37:34 Robot101, coming to the conference? Nov 12 21:38:07 RST38h, fixed it Nov 12 21:39:00 lol crashanddie Nov 12 21:39:44 Mohammad: Send in a patch? =) Nov 12 21:39:56 Robot101: well said Nov 12 21:40:58 Robot101: How did you get the email address? Nov 12 21:40:58 GAN900: we're gold sponsors :) Nov 12 21:41:06 RST38h, http://i55.tinypic.com/33m1r8p.jpg :) Nov 12 21:41:10 trumee: packagers@ bounced, it's from the debian package Nov 12 21:41:12 Robot101, yes, but are you coming. :P Nov 12 21:41:16 GAN900: yes Nov 12 21:41:21 GAN900: we've got like 10 people or something Nov 12 21:41:34 Robot101: coz, i hope somebody reads that. Nov 12 21:41:42 robink, see http://wiki.meego.com/index.php?title=MeeGo_Conference_2010/Flight_Information ? Nov 12 21:41:44 trumee: well info@ is on their webpage Nov 12 21:42:10 Robot101: ok cool. Nov 12 21:43:30 anyone who knows this error?.. http://2i.cz/2i/i/4cddc17b/81174f28da74713f624d2a3e343055db/9a6da78d5e.f.png Nov 12 21:44:29 I know what is message saying but i Nov 12 21:44:43 *I don't know how to do it.. Nov 12 21:47:08 RST38h, http://pastebin.com/ECnNR7zB :) Nov 12 21:47:26 you can ignore the first hunk if it builds fine for you Nov 12 21:47:42 trumee: are you in touch with them via e-mail? Nov 12 21:48:06 Robot101: yes, i had contact with one of the devs Nov 12 21:49:25 trumee: can you give me an address? Nov 12 21:50:06 Robot101: Phil D'Amore Nov 12 21:50:48 Robot101: He sometimes hangs out in #freeswitch as ptdamore. Nov 12 21:58:42 Watching 4-year-olds competently use Blackberries makes me feel old. Nov 12 21:59:36 :) Nov 12 22:00:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET#Modes_of_operation isn't bad either, reading it Nov 12 22:00:42 oops Nov 12 22:04:04 is there a nice (working) facebook client available for n900? Nov 12 22:05:57 GAN900: are you coming btw? Nov 12 22:06:04 if so I'll see you there (along with Rob :-)) Nov 12 22:14:53 hello how many volts should give the battery for the N900 to be full? Nov 12 22:16:16 w00t_: I know you have given up on facebrick. But do you know if its authentication mechanism is broken? Nov 12 22:16:22 bibounefr, your LiIon charger should be able to recognize that automatically? Nov 12 22:17:04 * ColdFyre wishes the n900 actually showed the battery level when charging Nov 12 22:17:23 i've never seen a nokia actually show that Nov 12 22:19:30 w00t_, yeah, you put your info on the flight page? Nov 12 22:20:23 ColdFyre, yeah, but these other where just plain mobiles. Nov 12 22:21:06 ColdFyre, the N900 OTOH is such a nice toy that one is left with wishing for the more esoteric stuff. Nov 12 22:21:12 * ColdFyre thinks nokia has a hidden agenda Nov 12 22:21:21 yacc , no it is not that, but I'm in panic boot with the kernel power 45, and I can not flash, I do not know if the battery is charging when I'm on the same wall plug or USB, no LED Orange Nov 12 22:22:35 E.g. a working USB host, a more complete set of wireless connections, it can do SIP, Skype, GSM/UMTS, but why is a DECT module missing, :-P Nov 12 22:23:13 ColdFyre, or seeing the charge level while charging. Nov 12 22:23:41 yacc , and like to flash it takes a full battery, mine gives v 3.5, is it enough? Nov 12 22:23:42 ColdFyre, interestingly, the default UI of the G1 did not show that value either, but 3rd party widgets could. Nov 12 22:24:24 hello! Nov 12 22:24:28 ColdFyre, OTOH, I've been told that the G1 had no real hardware to sense the load level of the battery, so it was always a kind of semi calculated guess, ... Nov 12 22:26:07 lcuk: bacon cider Nov 12 22:26:46 moin Nov 12 22:26:53 yacc, request it Nov 12 22:27:05 crashanddie, thats quite unappealing actually Nov 12 22:27:15 :( Nov 12 22:27:21 possibly the only thing so far with bacon that I might actuall give a miss Nov 12 22:28:32 nobody can help me? I'm secure with powerkernel 45 in boot panic and I can not flash .... Nov 12 22:28:46 MohammadAG, from whom? Nokia is not exactly a small mom and pop shop where you can tell anything relevant to anyone relevant, ... Nov 12 22:29:28 yacc, modules can be compiled easily Nov 12 22:30:03 I also did not understand why they had to rebase on Meego, I mean the N900 really nicely hides the thrilling Debian-ess system underneath. Nov 12 22:30:41 MohammadAG, which modules should I request? DECT module == hardware connection module so it can talk with standard DECT wireless landline base stations. Nov 12 22:30:46 yacc, for shits n giggles, rebase hildon ontop of meego ;) Nov 12 22:31:12 please ? Nov 12 22:31:37 yacc, my bad, misunderstood you Nov 12 22:31:47 i'd love hd on meego Nov 12 22:31:57 bibounefr, you say you cannot flash, have you tried following the flashing guide and troubleshooting and ensured you have fully charged battery and good cable and stuff Nov 12 22:32:03 cause quite frankly, meego's UI sucks compared to M5 Nov 12 22:32:36 MohammadAG, haven't seen Harmattan yet, though. Nov 12 22:32:47 GAN900, true Nov 12 22:33:04 it looks the same, if the N9's pics aren't fake Nov 12 22:34:09 lcuk , j'ai deja flasher sans soucie dans le passé , la ma batterie donne 3,5 v avec le voltmetre , est ce suffisant ? Nov 12 22:34:40 icuk , I already flashed without care in the past, my battery provides 3.5 V with the voltmeter, is it enough? Nov 12 22:34:43 I think your main computer is screwed Nov 12 22:34:49 that didnt come out like english at all Nov 12 22:35:09 bibounefr, I have never measured how charged up a battery is by voltage alone Nov 12 22:35:30 but isnt the battery marked 3.7v Nov 12 22:35:38 that is top voltage Nov 12 22:35:54 real one will depend on the load and the charge Nov 12 22:36:05 bibounefr, what happens when you start the flashing stage, please pastebin the console messages Nov 12 22:36:50 bibounefr: mesurer la capacite de la batterie avec un voltmetre ne te donnera que tres peu d'informations. Une batterie peut afficher 3.7V a vide, et 1V des que tu lui mets 1A en charge Nov 12 22:37:12 bibounefr: cela etant dit, ce channel est principalement anglais, donc merci de garder les discussions en anglais exclusivement, merci. Nov 12 22:37:43 GAN900: no, I have neglected to do so Nov 12 22:38:02 trumee: it sort of is, sort of isn't, some people have always had problems Nov 12 22:38:19 i have some ideas i'll play with on it if i feel like it Nov 12 22:38:24 My list of think to do between now and tomorrow keeps getting longer. Nov 12 22:38:48 w00t_: it used to work on my device. I did a reflash and now facebook returns with an error. Nov 12 22:39:07 w00t_: funny thing is that it does log me in correctly into the website Nov 12 22:39:45 w00t_: However, the Error comment in facebook seem to suggest that facebrick is not requesting something correct, Nov 12 22:40:10 icuk , I'll try to copy what I put the console when I start Nov 12 22:40:18 w00t_: is there any config files for facebrick which i can delete and try again? Nov 12 22:40:47 crashanddie , I try to speak English but not very easy for me Nov 12 22:41:29 w00t_: this is what facebook is returning btw, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=866196&postcount=723 Nov 12 22:58:12 icuk , Getting NOLO supplied boot parameters... Nov 12 22:58:12 Die ID #45DC000400000000040385ae02005016 Nov 12 22:58:12 Extra commands: Nov 12 22:58:13 run sercon - Use serial port for control. Nov 12 22:58:13 run usbcon - Use usbtty for contro. Nov 12 22:58:13 run vgacon - use framebuffer/keyboard Nov 12 22:58:13 run mmcboot - boot from sd card slot. Nov 12 22:58:14 run noloboot - boot kernel loaded by nolo Nov 12 22:58:14 hit any key to stop autoboot: 0 Nov 12 22:58:15 No MMC card found Nov 12 22:58:15 Booting Nolo supplied kernel... Nov 12 22:58:16 ## booting kernel from legacy image at 80540E58... Nov 12 22:58:16 image name: kernel-power Nov 12 22:58:17 image type: arm linux kernel image (uncompressed) Nov 12 23:01:14 anyone can help me? Nov 12 23:04:11 what do you need ? Nov 12 23:05:41 gorioBR I'm secure with powerkernel 45 in boot panic and I can not flash .... Nov 12 23:05:59 battery Nov 12 23:06:15 howz? Nov 12 23:07:03 Afteris I already flashed without care in the past, my battery provides 3.5 V with the voltmeter, is it enough? Nov 12 23:07:41 can you boot meego from microsd? Nov 12 23:08:00 that should at least let you charge (i hope :) Nov 12 23:08:00 hmm, i cant garand i think it must be 3.7 Nov 12 23:09:03 if you have option try to get another battery and check if everything works Nov 12 23:09:18 nox- , how to put the image on the micro sd Meego with a xp pc? Nov 12 23:09:38 check on forum Nov 12 23:09:46 some imagewriter tool? Nov 12 23:09:47 where is alot of information Nov 12 23:10:01 Afteris , yes that is what is written above ..... Nov 12 23:10:14 (assuming you have a flashcard reader etc) Nov 12 23:10:45 bibounefr try to get battery Nov 12 23:11:07 try either, whatever is eaier for you Nov 12 23:11:16 shure Nov 12 23:12:21 nox-'s point is valid. Afteris is a pragmatic solution if you have a neigbour with a compatible phone holding a BL-5J battery Nov 12 23:12:46 Afteris , I looked all over after lunch on the forum did not solve my problem Nov 12 23:13:10 fcrochik, ah, you're on 722, too. Nov 12 23:13:32 bibounefr how i understand you stuck in u-boot? Nov 12 23:13:54 no, he's stuck on a low battery Nov 12 23:14:07 and a borked rootfs Nov 12 23:14:22 so what i sayd before Nov 12 23:14:50 Docscrutinizer , no neighbor with BL-5J .... :) Nov 12 23:14:58 sigh, my n810 doesn't boot :/ Nov 12 23:15:01 get battery or get battery charger Nov 12 23:15:08 so go for charging battery with meego on SD card Nov 12 23:15:35 ShadowJK: mine boots every few days :-P Nov 12 23:15:46 bibounefr i dont now how in france but in lithuania i managet to buy battery charger for 4euro Nov 12 23:15:46 Docscrutinizer , how to put the image on the micro sd Meego with a xp pc? Nov 12 23:16:17 there are instructions on meego's wiki Nov 12 23:16:25 I have no better pointer, sorry Nov 12 23:16:36 * ShadowJK suddenly hears nokia "hands" sound, 30 minutes later Nov 12 23:16:39 AFteris , pressed closer to what the 40 to 60 € in France .... Nov 12 23:16:43 maybe ask in #meego-arm Nov 12 23:16:50 it booted :D Nov 12 23:18:15 ah here's a windows tool: http://shounen.ru/soft/flashnul/ Nov 12 23:18:48 Docscruntinizer on the wiki? there have the manual for putting on the sdcard Meego with a 900 in working condition, with no off N900 Nov 12 23:18:51 (this assuming flashcard reader) Nov 12 23:19:46 I have a microSD USB reader Nov 12 23:20:05 http://manual.aptosid.com/en/hd-ins-opts-oos-en.htm#raw-ms Nov 12 23:20:30 they write an iso but the meego image i hope will be the same Nov 12 23:21:12 pls correct me if im wrong :) Nov 12 23:22:35 (its a hyrbid iso in case anyone is wondering...) Nov 12 23:22:39 nox- , thank you, but I do not know if an iso and image are such Meego Nov 12 23:26:19 nox-; I'll try this solution .. thank you to you Nov 12 23:26:27 GAN900: yes!\ Nov 12 23:28:16 fcrochik, getting in from Tampa on US 1044 at around 7 PM. Nov 12 23:29:02 GAN900: I am leaving NC...will land at 7:23 Nov 12 23:29:09 bibounefr http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870270&postcount=30 Nov 12 23:29:26 haven't tested by myself Nov 12 23:29:49 ah here are the official(?) meego instructions: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC#Installing_Rootfs_on_external_MMC_card Nov 12 23:31:53 (and yes looks like flashnul should work as well) Nov 12 23:31:59 fcrochik, guess I'll see you at the gate. I'll be the bearded guy with the Mini 9 and an N900. ;) Nov 12 23:32:24 GAN900: Nov 12 23:32:33 GAN900: oops...too quick... Nov 12 23:34:19 GAN900: again.... let me remove the boxing gloves first... ok done.. :) I will see you at the gate .... I probably should recognize you from the picture I saw on your profile... I will have my n900 too (not that will help)... Nov 12 23:34:33 AFteris and nox- , thank you I'll try to see it ... Nov 12 23:38:58 fcrochik, sjgadsby should be there too, so, two bearded men. Nov 12 23:39:35 GAN900: maybe I will not shave then :) Nov 12 23:39:40 Hehe Nov 12 23:39:40 Hmmm Nov 12 23:40:08 For the third year running I could not get funding to turn up :( Nov 12 23:40:19 Is there a way to act on the low-on-battery event? Nov 12 23:40:34 what event is this if i may ask? :) Nov 12 23:40:57 Well, I'm not sure how /etc/event.d works Nov 12 23:41:13 But I'd like to run a shellscript when the bat Nov 12 23:41:15 Oh, wait Nov 12 23:41:24 ah no i meant where GAN900 and fcrochik are going... Nov 12 23:41:38 One can fetch the battery level from /sys, right? Nov 12 23:43:00 nox-: meego conference Nov 12 23:43:06 ah Nov 12 23:43:22 Oh Nov 12 23:44:13 meego conference? Nov 12 23:44:51 meenotgo conference more like. Nov 12 23:48:45 alterego, didn't apply for sponsorship? Nov 12 23:49:27 GAN900: well, I did, but I made a mistake and for some reason didn't manage to actually submit my entry Nov 12 23:49:35 alterego, also: You're not going? You son of a bitch! Nov 12 23:49:37 What? Nov 12 23:49:39 My badge and fun bag will be there, but I wont. Nov 12 23:49:43 That's just lame. Nov 12 23:49:50 :( Nov 12 23:50:06 So much for 3rd time lucky Nov 12 23:51:37 GAN900: I'm gutted Nov 12 23:54:39 alterego: :/ Nov 12 23:55:00 :( Nov 12 23:55:26 FireFly|n900: lshal Nov 12 23:55:39 or bq27200.sh Nov 12 23:55:47 that doesn't do stuff on low battery though Nov 12 23:56:05 I wonder if there is an actual script called Nov 12 23:56:05 I've been racking my brain about how I can get the funds for the flights Nov 12 23:56:16 Oh, nice Nov 12 23:56:17 I don't mind sleeping in a bus shelter for a couple of nights. Nov 12 23:56:24 I could poll it though Nov 12 23:56:52 SpeedEvil: should be a APM and kernel and init thing iirc Nov 12 23:56:54 what do you mean by low battery. Nov 12 23:57:05 Do you mean a 'device shutting off' low? Nov 12 23:57:12 Well, nope Nov 12 23:57:23 enough time so i can put the charger in Nov 12 23:57:39 Otherwise, I'd monitor dbus, and look for what events are sent when it goes beep Nov 12 23:57:50 Hmm Nov 12 23:57:56 Yeah, that could work Nov 12 23:58:00 yes Nov 12 23:58:29 also I guess battery level is reported via dbus occasionally Nov 12 23:58:52 so you could use dbus scripting daemon Nov 13 00:00:44 Though that'll have to wait until tomorrow Nov 13 00:00:49 Time to sleep Nov 13 00:00:50 * DocScrutinizer would feel temped to run a dbus-monitor >somelog whole day long, day by day. If that wouldn't nuke even 1TB disks after some hours (well maybe days) Nov 13 00:02:42 GAN900: we're doing Nokia's work for free, so why should we pay for joining Nokia's conferences? Nov 13 00:03:24 DocScrutinizer: *thumbs up* Nov 13 00:03:35 DocScrutinizer: but you weren't even invited :P Nov 13 00:03:36 actually I couldn't - even if I felt like doing Nov 13 00:05:27 I'd just like to have met some of the people I've been talking to for the past 4-5 years Nov 13 00:06:55 Who remembers that Nokia promo thing where they got loaner guys to make small vids? Nov 13 00:07:05 MyMo or something. Nov 13 00:07:17 Of the tail of last years Maemo conference? Nov 13 00:10:40 . Nov 13 00:14:57 does anyone know how to boot the power kernel with multiboot ? Nov 13 00:15:19 I tried doing the same stuff I did for NITDroid, it just can't find the file and panics Nov 13 00:15:24 dbus isn't _that_ spammy Nov 13 00:15:30 (1t logs) Nov 13 00:15:53 are the kernels in /boot/multiboot/ 'fiasco' (what does that mean ?) ? Nov 13 00:16:23 fiasco is a image format Nov 13 00:16:28 an* Nov 13 00:16:36 for flashing Nov 13 00:17:27 ah it's a package that has the kernel inside ? Nov 13 00:17:34 not only kernel Nov 13 00:17:45 rootfs Nov 13 00:17:50 bootloaders Nov 13 00:17:58 rapuyama firmware Nov 13 00:18:03 and rapuyama bootloader Nov 13 00:18:48 how would I get the kernel from inside ? Nov 13 00:18:55 or at least view the contents Nov 13 00:19:10 with flasher Nov 13 00:19:15 flasher can unpack it Nov 13 00:19:20 ah ok Nov 13 00:20:35 I was trying to boot a FIASCO image instead of an actual kernel :/ Nov 13 00:21:51 how you managed to fir it there? Nov 13 00:21:55 fit* Nov 13 00:21:57 it's quite big Nov 13 00:23:48 DocScrutinizer: maemo wiki says bme is closed for scruity reasons Nov 13 00:24:02 DocScrutinizer: e.g. batteries can expode if played with casuing liabilities to nokia Nov 13 00:24:11 BS Nov 13 00:24:28 aka "excuses, lame excuses" Nov 13 00:24:44 DocScrutinizer: and you have mfctr's proof for that supposedly? Nov 13 00:24:51 sure Nov 13 00:25:58 DocScrutinizer: communicate it without despair, then, that's the best bet. The bug trail suggests a relicensing has been made due to meego? Nov 13 00:26:04 a battery that *might* explode by any treatment you could possibly expose it to by N900 hardware, is strictly FORBIDDEN to sell in EU Nov 13 00:26:39 DocScrutinizer: saying that it is safe to not explode if sold in EU, but maybe the bme is the blob making it so? Nov 13 00:26:46 cell manufacturers' safety tests are way worse than all N900 could do Nov 13 00:26:51 ahhh Nov 13 00:26:55 I get the point now. Nov 13 00:26:56 jacekowski, it's the power kernel fiasco image, so it just had the kernel, 2 megs Nov 13 00:27:07 btw, why is it called fiasco? Nov 13 00:27:08 :) Nov 13 00:27:20 because it IS :-P Nov 13 00:27:52 DocScrutinizer: I think I'm not gonna talk too much about this but refer people to your links and the bug trail, I am far from understnading anything meaningful in batteries Nov 13 00:28:11 DocScrutinizer: nor in the politics behind it, although it could be an intereting endeavor Nov 13 00:28:12 'required files not found'. I SWEAR I have the kernel in there :/ Nov 13 00:28:36 DocScrutinizer: I wish I could,though. Nov 13 00:29:15 sivang: you're free to refer to my name and my statements Nov 13 00:29:31 also you might be interested in Nov 13 00:29:35 ~batteryfaq Nov 13 00:29:35 hmm... batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers Nov 13 00:30:30 hello one and all Nov 13 00:31:20 sivang: (fiasco) an odd sense of humour in Nokia dev dept. Fiasko means flask or bottle in Italian Nov 13 00:32:40 the meaning of desaster came later - I'm envisioning lots and lots of broken glass bottles :-) Nov 13 00:32:45 that would be "fiasco" (c not k) Nov 13 00:33:06 meh, c / k, who cares Nov 13 00:34:35 FR still is booting to "uBoot (dirty)" Nov 13 00:34:41 :-P Nov 13 00:36:26 DocScrutinizer: hehe Nov 13 00:36:28 nobody knows what the (dirty) is meant to say Nov 13 00:36:58 DocScrutinizer: I will refer to your statements and docs, just not going to say too much about it other then "go read and vote" or something :) Nov 13 00:37:12 ok with me Nov 13 00:38:47 don't forget to mention my offer to accept a contract with Nokia to tackle and fix it for good still stands Nov 13 00:39:12 DocScrutinizer: heh, not sure i can say that , but you shoudl write someone in NOkia for that- Nov 13 00:39:16 DocScrutinizer: much effective Nov 13 00:39:19 DocScrutinizer: *more Nov 13 00:39:51 DocScrutinizer: I can at leas ask, "whom do we talk to about this rather sensitive issue" ? Nov 13 00:40:32 not sure about that. I've been talking to Nokia guys, and they were like "I have to see if we got enough money for that.. will take a few days" This was quite some months ago Nov 13 00:40:48 DocScrutinizer: comment 44 is well written gonna use some slight partsof it. Nov 13 00:41:18 DocScrutinizer: as I said don't despair. This is a very large organization and if you are persisten enogh only good will come out of this Nov 13 00:41:26 DocScrutinizer: continue until profit Nov 13 00:41:42 or until hospital Nov 13 00:42:02 DocScrutinizer: and this organization has some rather amazing people and great engineers, sometimes there must be red tape, but you need to be strong, imagine you live where i live :) Nov 13 00:42:12 DocScrutinizer: I will help instead of hospital Nov 13 00:42:30 DocScrutinizer: to try and communicate stuff and remind every now and then, this is one of the goals of the talk actually. Nov 13 00:42:44 why would one person in the community outweigh many employees in the company? :) Nov 13 00:43:02 pipnuk: PIPNUK??? Nov 13 00:43:04 no difrefpect or nuthin :) Nov 13 00:43:09 heh Nov 13 00:43:13 it's nt that- Nov 13 00:43:18 why do companies hire off the communty ? Nov 13 00:43:24 pipnuk: ^ Nov 13 00:43:47 this is the eyeballs principle , mostly I think Nov 13 00:43:51 because some people in the community have a marginal productivity that can jump over the great barriers to hiring Nov 13 00:44:18 hmm, not sure how to parse this Nov 13 00:44:20 :) Nov 13 00:44:22 kunpip: what happened to your nick? ;-P Nov 13 00:44:25 but really, pipnuk ? Nov 13 00:44:26 ;) Nov 13 00:44:33 sivang: battery is required to take any abuse without exploding Nov 13 00:44:35 HAHA Nov 13 00:44:41 jacekowski: yes, I got that earlier Nov 13 00:44:43 jacekowski: :) Nov 13 00:45:01 jacekowski: and ti makes sense the mfct need to make sure engineers experimenting with it at a vendor don't kill themselves Nov 13 00:52:02 can someoneplease find me the call ui accidently answered since it unlocks automatically? Nov 13 00:52:24 that one the Jaffa started a votepage for it on t.m.o Nov 13 00:53:17 is frals around? Nov 13 00:53:53 http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf p.66 >> 2 Overcharge, no explosion no fire no smoke, charge at 4.5V(!!) for 2 hours Nov 13 00:55:16 7.2.17 Overcharge Nov 13 00:55:17 After Complete Charge, the sample cells are charged at 1200 mA(1C) of a constant current and Nov 13 00:55:19 4.5V of a constant voltage for 2 hours. All cells being tested are visually examined. Nov 13 00:57:22 safe enough? or do you still think N900 could make battery explode? :-D Nov 13 00:58:35 I'm taking notes of that Nov 13 00:59:15 nokia's concerns about opening up bme could cause exploding batteries are mere excuses Nov 13 00:59:34 I am not expert, so I can't provide an opinion Nov 13 00:59:41 sure Nov 13 00:59:41 you shoudl continue asking Nov 13 01:00:08 but this area of volts and electronics starts to become more and more interesting with your mentorship :) Nov 13 01:00:18 I mean, in a way, interesting than software development Nov 13 01:00:25 in different aspects. Nov 13 01:00:26 :) Nov 13 01:00:27 meh, on that ticket in trac they clearly stated they won't go open up *anything* Nov 13 01:00:38 trac ticket? Nov 13 01:00:45 bugs.maemo.com? Nov 13 01:00:53 yep Nov 13 01:01:07 some down from #44 Nov 13 01:01:11 yes, that was the general feeliung. but maybe the same thing will happen as hapened with dsme? Nov 13 01:01:22 that critical diffentiating stuff were moved over Nov 13 01:01:23 etc Nov 13 01:01:30 DocScrutinizer: I will read it on the plane Nov 13 01:01:36 gotta run soon Nov 13 01:01:40 if I don't want to miss it Nov 13 01:01:41 :) Nov 13 01:01:44 have a nice flight Nov 13 01:01:50 I saved all the bug reports for work on the flight Nov 13 01:01:53 DocScrutinizer: thank you! Nov 13 01:02:14 DocScrutinizer: if you are ever opening a embedded electronics training course, I'm thefirst the register Nov 13 01:02:29 :-) Nov 13 01:02:32 DocScrutinizer: this affectionalty reminds me electricity studies back in uni Nov 13 01:02:38 DocScrutinizer: :) Nov 13 01:03:20 DocScrutinizer: one last thing "wants to make it available for other distors" Nov 13 01:03:26 DocScrutinizer: what's that about? OM? Nov 13 01:04:03 err, what? Nov 13 01:04:27 the battery specs? yes, these are for gta02 aka FreeRunner battery Nov 13 01:05:40 DocScrutinizer: there was a note there that open sourcing was requestedto make it run with other distros, maybe part of the differentiation concern? Nov 13 01:05:50 DocScrutinizer: or was that ok actually? Nov 13 01:06:22 sivang: sorry you lost me Nov 13 01:07:43 DocScrutinizer: never mind, I guess this is irrelavant now Nov 13 01:07:54 DocScrutinizer: I will reread it and possibly email you with the question Nov 13 01:08:01 yw Nov 13 01:09:08 DocScrutinizer: I downloaded the battery spec as wlel, lots of reading material on the flight :) Nov 13 01:09:13 DocScrutinizer: with your cross reference Nov 13 01:09:18 thanks again, and talk soon. Nov 13 01:09:23 * sivang -> out Nov 13 01:09:28 o/ Nov 13 01:10:06 sivang - also - the bq27200 datasheet is worth a grab Nov 13 01:10:23 SpeedEvil: link? Nov 13 01:10:36 (sorry for the neediness) Nov 13 01:10:42 I'm in kind of a hurry Nov 13 01:11:49 SpeedEvil: privmsg the link and I owe you a beer Nov 13 01:11:57 * sivang -> out Nov 13 01:44:45 what are some productivity apps, off hand? Nov 13 01:45:00 http://www.dragosroua.com/iadd-for-iphone-ipad/ this looks useful Nov 13 01:50:20 I suppose if oyu have an iPad maybe... Nov 13 01:50:42 of course not, but I'm just saying that sort of app, not that specific one Nov 13 01:50:47 ahh Nov 13 01:52:08 btw. Nov 13 01:52:13 i met somebody with n900 today Nov 13 01:52:22 i couldn't believe that Nov 13 01:52:26 lol, I know what you mean Nov 13 01:52:28 it's rare, yes Nov 13 01:52:38 I was like "wtf man" once, and the guy was all casual about it "whatever" Nov 13 01:52:43 at the meego event back in september I saw more people with N900s than I had ever seen Nov 13 01:52:52 made me doubt that he knew what it was, and believe he just bought it because it was expensive Nov 13 01:57:40 * mtnman has only seen one n900 ever... his own. Nov 13 01:58:31 I know plenty of people with them, even though a lot more people have android and iphones of course. Nov 13 02:03:25 err I even met two guys with own Freerunners, both during last year and here in my pub next door. And the total sales of FR is maybe factor 100 to 1000 lower than N900 Nov 13 02:03:57 maybe even 5000 Nov 13 02:04:08 nah, probably not Nov 13 02:04:32 wow Nov 13 02:04:36 you must have really been looking Nov 13 02:04:42 or... where do you live? Nov 13 02:04:51 a scandanavian country? Nov 13 02:05:03 nope, not at all. Just sitting there using the device and they came and talked to me Nov 13 02:05:30 and my homebase is southern Germany Nov 13 02:06:08 why would freewunners be more likely to be seen in scandinavian countries? Nov 13 02:06:54 they are cooler people than people from south Nov 13 02:07:01 hehehe Nov 13 02:08:34 lol Nov 13 02:24:49 yes, i do believe that scandinavian people are cooler than those from the south... if due to nothing other than climate.... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 13 02:59:57 2010