**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 25 02:59:58 2010 Nov 25 03:15:44 hey murderers :) Nov 25 03:45:01 * Dante_J Greets the room Nov 25 03:48:42 hello Dante_J Nov 25 03:49:17 what's new erstazi? Nov 25 03:50:12 Dante_J: just relaxing,… thinking of the next thing I can destroy (: Nov 25 03:50:34 heh Nov 25 03:51:02 So this is a kind of broad question. Feel free those who wish to chime in to do so. Nov 25 03:51:17 Dante_J: shoot Nov 25 03:52:08 How would you rate the state of the Maemo /(Meego) community at the moment. I ask that as a long time proud N800 & now N900 owner. I have my opinions, but I want to hear from others. Nov 25 03:55:07 Dante_J: been a maemo user since 770. I miss those days. MeeGo in my opinion has potential but I wished for the debian base instead of opensuse (rpm-based). The UI looks refreshing in MeeGo though. Also MeeGo has two organizations supporting it verses just one organization with maemo Nov 25 03:55:45 * Dante_J knods Nov 25 03:55:58 but what about the *community*? Nov 25 03:55:59 Dante_J: what is your opinion? Nov 25 03:57:45 For me I've used Debian and Fedora based distros concurrently for years, so switching from a deb back end to rpm is not a big deal at all for me. It's just a way to deliver the code - and that code is written by people who are often enough part of or influenced by the community. Hence my question. Nov 25 03:58:05 right Nov 25 03:58:16 Dante_J: I think other people are sleeping (: Nov 25 03:58:20 or too shy to answer Nov 25 03:58:28 or drunk Nov 25 03:58:58 I'm mildly familiar with the Fedora community and the Ubuntu community, and I read through maemo talk every few days, but that's not a great guide of community spirit or health. Nov 25 04:03:05 right, I use CentOS and Debian, so I don't mind specifically,… I just wonder how much work was done with maemo is being transitioned into MeeGo? Nov 25 04:06:13 erstazi: I'd love to know the answer to that question too. Nov 25 04:15:41 Would it be fair to say that most people in the channel are in Europe / US time zones? Nov 25 04:23:38 irgendwie pennt hier alles! Nov 25 05:08:31 re Nov 25 06:45:31 Good (morning/afternoon/evening). Nov 25 06:45:44 hi CableTwitch Nov 25 06:46:52 Hey Dante Nov 25 06:47:31 CableTwitch: what do you know? Nov 25 06:48:28 Not a lot, usually. Nov 25 06:48:35 I know how to break my N900, mostly. Nov 25 06:49:32 yea, that applies to most of us I suspect Nov 25 06:50:07 I'm no coder. I'm merely a user that comes here to learn how to unbreak it, and occasionally discover that the HW has gone kaput. Nov 25 06:50:20 I'll be on my 3rd unit when the replacement comes back XD Nov 25 06:50:30 golly! Nov 25 06:50:38 usb connector issues? Nov 25 06:50:48 That was the first one, yes. Nov 25 06:51:02 I dropped it on the connector while the USB cable was plugged in. Nov 25 06:52:10 ouch Nov 25 06:52:11 the irony was that I later learned I could have sorted that issue out using the local hackspace hot-air rework station. Didnt rip the connector off the mobo, only caused the connector itself to come apart. Nov 25 06:52:27 So I lost a lot of things I couldnt back up, because I had no way of chaging it. Nov 25 06:52:32 Charging even. Nov 25 06:52:38 ahh Nov 25 06:52:56 could you ssh to it and tar everything important up and off? Nov 25 06:53:12 and charge batteries externally? Nov 25 06:53:15 The 2nd phone I just sent back, as it killed itself eventually. No amount of flashing both the rootfs or the eMMC would fix it, and it displayed some rather odd behaviour that we decided was fritzed hardware. Nov 25 06:53:42 hmmm, doesn't sound good. Nov 25 06:54:05 As I said, I'm merely a user of the phone. I dont do linux, or anything technical in the software front. SSH is something I've heard others talk about, but never used myself. I dont even run linux as a desktop. Nov 25 06:55:06 I've learned a little through messing with the phone itself, but I'm nowhere near technical enough with the OS to do anything beyond installing apps. I'm a self-confessed hardware bod, I dont do software :O) Nov 25 06:58:43 Eh, besides, I couldnt get the damn thing to connect as a USB drive, and I was very lucky to get it to connect in upload mode in order to flash it. Nov 25 06:58:58 Plug the USB cable in, and the device powered up and tried to boot. Same with the power lead. Nov 25 06:59:52 Something went a bit mental in the charging/power circuitry, is my guess. Possible overheating, or a fried control IC maybe. Either way, no power/staus LED signals, and undesirable operation meant it was going back anyhow. Nov 25 07:22:37 CableTwitch: Sorry for my lag, distracted by work. Sounds like you've experiences a few failures. Nov 25 07:22:54 CableTwitch: apart from that, what do you think of the N900? Nov 25 07:24:51 CableTwitch: Sorry, have to go. see you again Nov 25 07:28:53 Doh, wasnt paying attention XD Nov 25 07:41:48 how do I remove a package that's stuck in a "very bad inconsistent state"? Nov 25 07:49:34 ni1s: I'd do an "apt-get install X --reinstall", then uninstall it Nov 25 07:49:39 It -might- work Nov 25 07:52:21 * CableTwitch gets the Pyramid and Black Lamb Nov 25 07:52:30 I saved them, they werent required earlier. Nov 25 08:25:38 good morning Nov 25 08:26:25 \o Nov 25 08:26:34 Termana, good morning Nov 25 08:55:53 Does anyone of you know of a SMS to Speech App on the N900? Lifehacker just had a post about such an app on the Android ... Nov 25 08:57:00 i don't know of one, but as espeak is on the n900 (a voice synth), it probably wouldn't be difficult to write one Nov 25 08:58:40 ieatlint, I think so, too. All the stuff should be there -- but how do I access (incoming) SMS on the N900? haven't found yet (and haven't searched deeply ... too) Nov 25 08:59:15 uh, i think qtmobility can do it, and there are c libs... let me see if i can dig up a link Nov 25 08:59:49 ieatlint, that would be cool! Nov 25 09:02:13 hmm, well i know sms runs on telepathy, so if you were listening for new sms you might be sitting on that Nov 25 09:02:23 dunno if telepathy is actually used to access sms from an archive Nov 25 09:03:09 hey guys Nov 25 09:03:30 Ciao bella Nov 25 09:04:57 Hey Venemo_N900 Nov 25 09:05:22 ~seen khertan_ Nov 25 09:05:29 khertan_ is currently on #maemo (1d 1h 48m 5s) #meego (1d 1h 48m 5s), last said: 'i must go on ... going to office. Bye'. Nov 25 09:05:35 peb_, don't have an easy link for you on a c interface... but the telepathy apis might be the place to look Nov 25 09:06:03 c interface for what? Nov 25 09:06:13 ieatlint, thanks for the help. I'll try & dig into it. Need such an app for me while driving ... Nov 25 09:06:27 reading sms Nov 25 09:06:35 Venemo_N900: we were talking about an "SMS to Speech" app .. Nov 25 09:06:49 perhaps different if you want to watch for incoming sms instead of looking at an archive Nov 25 09:07:22 ieatlint, mostly incoming would be relevant :-) (don't look on the N900 while driving ...) Nov 25 09:07:56 peb_: hm... well I think there is one, but I don't know any details Nov 25 09:08:20 peb_: for text-to-speech there is espeak which has already been ported to Maemo Nov 25 09:08:36 good moaning Nov 25 09:08:55 Venemo_N900: clear, but how do I get espeak to read the (incoming) SMS? Nov 25 09:09:24 pick it up from dbus and pipe it to espeak Nov 25 09:09:35 peb_, you do the same as other people with a desire for an app Nov 25 09:09:49 lcuk, yes, write it myself :-) Nov 25 09:09:52 you investigate how, learn and test and make an app :P Nov 25 09:09:58 then get the glory :) Nov 25 09:10:18 the app itself sounds cool :) i keep pondering how to do it for irc Nov 25 09:10:35 peb_: well you "only" need a way to read the SMSes fromsomewhere, then forward it to espeak :) Nov 25 09:10:36 Venemo_N900, Hi ! Nov 25 09:10:38 peb_, there was a time we didn't have MMS on the N900 :) Nov 25 09:10:39 Morning all ! Nov 25 09:10:44 until someone sat down and made it Nov 25 09:10:49 khertan_: helloooo! :) Nov 25 09:11:40 khertan_: sorry for bothering you, but I have a serious issue with KhtEditor Nov 25 09:12:22 lcuk, I'm aware of that .... But I think alterego pointed me in the right direction (reading the SMS from dbus). I didn't know where to get that SMS from ... Nov 25 09:12:32 Venemo_N900, which one ? Nov 25 09:12:55 peb_, a DBUS message is raised when the message comes in Nov 25 09:12:57 khertan_: particularly with its feature that runs c/c++ apps Nov 25 09:13:25 it generally comes from your mum or your friends or at a pinch fro ma test message from yourself Nov 25 09:14:23 Venemo_N900, hum ... you mean with the execute toolbar button ? Nov 25 09:14:39 khertan_: yes Nov 25 09:14:46 Venemo_N900, as i know it s working for python, ruby and sh ... Nov 25 09:15:00 khertan_: when trying to run a c program it says, "/tmp/khteditor.tmp: line 3: c: not found" Nov 25 09:15:07 but for c/c++ it ll not do right thing yet Nov 25 09:15:38 i think i should add a execute command field in the preference for such language Nov 25 09:15:48 as it s require a compile before Nov 25 09:16:10 khertan_: yeah Nov 25 09:16:11 so ... need to know what args to send to the compiler (and which compiler to use) Nov 25 09:16:19 khertan_: I have another concern about it Nov 25 09:16:24 yep ? Nov 25 09:16:38 khertan_: the app only offers to open files from MyDocs Nov 25 09:16:49 khertan_: which is mounted with noexec Nov 25 09:17:11 yep due to shitty fracked QFileDialog Nov 25 09:17:21 (doesn't show extension too) Nov 25 09:17:44 khertan_: so, KhtEditor should copy the file to some secret place in /home/user and build it there Nov 25 09:18:00 Morning, all Nov 25 09:18:05 Venemo_N900, secret place will be /tmp :) Nov 25 09:18:18 morning Jaffa Nov 25 09:18:24 khertan_: okay with me Nov 25 09:18:42 khertan_: if it is written with Qt, I would be more than welcome to contribute. is it? Nov 25 09:19:28 yep you are welcome. Git repository is available at http://gitorious.org/khteditor Nov 25 09:19:30 :) Nov 25 09:19:51 Anyone know off hand how to detect whether your app has been backgrounded? Nov 25 09:20:06 khertan_: ok, I'll look at it Nov 25 09:20:16 khertan_: what I meant is I would be more than happy to contribute Nov 25 09:20:40 Logged 1hr of telemetry this morning, whilst listening to music, battery indicator still reads full. Nov 25 09:20:44 alterego: yeah, there is some property of QWidget that says that Nov 25 09:20:57 So I'm pretty happy about that :) Nov 25 09:20:59 Venemo_N900, and i ll be happy that someone else contribute to it. Nov 25 09:21:04 Venemo_N900: okay, thanks for the pointer. Nov 25 09:21:09 alterego: alternatively, when your main widget becomes out of focus Nov 25 09:21:16 how do i form alt key? Nov 25 09:21:25 Hrm, yeah, I'll do some testing. Nov 25 09:22:00 channel switching in irssi without alt is somewhat fancy Nov 25 09:22:11 khertan_: oh-oh... I'm not very comfortable with Python yet Nov 25 09:22:42 Gh0sty: you could remap some key to become an alt key Nov 25 09:22:45 Venemo_N900, hum ... python isn't the hard part :) Most of things are just qt call Nov 25 09:23:01 Gh0sty: for example, Fn+something=alt Nov 25 09:23:11 could i get alt on my xterminal onscreen bar? Nov 25 09:23:17 khertan_: yeah, I made a PyQt app once Nov 25 09:23:30 Gh0sty: there is no way I know of to do that Nov 25 09:23:46 hm damn :( Nov 25 09:30:30 khertan_: do you code KhtEditor with KhtEditor? :P Nov 25 09:30:52 yes :) Nov 25 09:31:22 :) Nov 25 09:31:45 unf! repackaged nokia's stupid flasher thing that supposedly only works on i386 (according to their control file) to work on amd64 Nov 25 09:31:48 well, the binary always worked, but i had to cut open the package, add the extra architecture, and repackage it Nov 25 09:32:07 Gorroth: nice Nov 25 09:32:20 :) Nov 25 09:32:38 was a bit annoying that nokia didn't just put "i386, amd64" in the .deb Nov 25 09:32:50 hehe Nov 25 09:47:25 haha Nov 25 09:47:36 I love my coworkers. In a doc: "This alert shouldn’t happen." Nov 25 09:47:53 If it's not supposed to happen, why document it for a _customer documentation_? Nov 25 09:49:53 crashanddie, you know one day one of my coworker do a if i<0: alert("blabla") elif i>=0: alert("error") else alert("What the fuck") Nov 25 09:50:07 Wtf was displayed on many case Nov 25 09:50:33 khertan_, when I worked for the Australian Gov Driving Licence project, there was an error message we always dreaded Nov 25 09:50:38 it said "Something bad happened" Nov 25 09:50:41 And that was it Nov 25 09:50:53 The system would just die, stop, nearly instantly. No logs, no traces, nothing. Nov 25 09:51:06 * lcuk cannot believe #meego are discussing boobies Nov 25 09:51:07 no core dumps? Nov 25 09:51:07 as the language used never except on divide by 0 but else generate an particular integer 'infinite' which isn't greater than 0 Nov 25 09:51:12 jacekowski, java Nov 25 09:51:14 but not lesser : Nov 25 09:51:15 :) Nov 25 09:51:26 then you should have some logs Nov 25 09:51:28 exceptions Nov 25 09:51:31 stack traces Nov 25 09:51:33 gc logs Nov 25 09:51:51 jacekowski, depends on the language you use Nov 25 09:51:53 crashanddie, morning, how are you? Nov 25 09:51:58 khertan_: he said java Nov 25 09:52:13 lcuk, good, got a unofficial promotion as Product Manager yesterday Nov 25 09:52:19 \o/ Nov 25 09:52:24 sweet Nov 25 09:52:38 does it involve unofficial payrise tho? Nov 25 09:52:46 what does product manager do? Nov 25 09:52:48 lcuk, currently negotiating that Nov 25 09:53:12 jacekowski, roadmaps, documentation management, customer expectation management, requirements gathering, and in my case, C++ development too. Nov 25 09:53:19 jacekowski, don't be silly Nov 25 09:53:24 he manages products obviously Nov 25 09:54:16 crashanddie, unofficial like you get problems, not greetings, not wage increase :) Nov 25 09:54:16 jacekowski, well, no. Don't forget this was a J2EE app that would run inside a WebSphere cluster, and if your code manages to bring down the app server, you're pretty much screwed -- a usual startup of the system would generate about 120MB of logs, and if when it crashes you just get a websphere segfault, you are _not_ a happy camper. Nov 25 09:54:44 s/wage increase/payrise :) Nov 25 09:54:47 khertan_, nha, unofficially because we're waiting a couple of weeks before announcing it at the christmas party Nov 25 09:54:55 * khertan_ learn a new english word today Nov 25 09:55:07 crashanddie, so not so bad :) Nov 25 09:55:16 gratz Nov 25 09:56:21 ta Nov 25 09:56:36 lcuk, what bout you guv, how are things going in Gunchester? Nov 25 09:58:15 morning Nov 25 09:58:23 things are good I think Nov 25 09:58:57 MohammadAG: morning! :) Nov 25 09:59:10 nice school day, 4 chemistry lessons, teacher wasn't at school, so I'm done 3-ish hours early Nov 25 09:59:15 morning MohammadAG Nov 25 09:59:17 well, 4-ish Nov 25 09:59:33 :) Nov 25 09:59:47 need to wake up my PC remotely Nov 25 10:02:30 MohammadAG: could we get this into Maemo? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2637_video&num=2 Nov 25 10:03:46 wake on lan, and DMZ Nov 25 10:03:53 ShadowJK, said it won't do anything on maemo iirc Nov 25 10:03:59 alterego, got both Nov 25 10:06:42 It'd do more harm than good imo Nov 25 10:07:02 why? Nov 25 10:07:29 Because our kernel is tuned to work with what we have. Everything is tested to be "stable" with what we have. Nov 25 10:07:39 MohammadAG: the patch won't do anything why? Nov 25 10:07:50 There's no way to know how those kinds of performance changes would effect the operation of the device. Nov 25 10:08:11 oh, that Nov 25 10:08:15 well according to stskeeps it did effect the N900 Nov 25 10:08:17 i thought you were talking about dmz Nov 25 10:08:18 except by trying it out Nov 25 10:08:34 even on 2.6.28? Nov 25 10:09:14 MohammadAG: what? Nov 25 10:09:49 MohammadAG: that I dunno Nov 25 10:11:08 perhaps we could simply ask the author of the power kernel to include this Nov 25 10:11:16 Venemo_N900: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/11/alternative-to-200-lines-kernel-patch.html Nov 25 10:13:49 toggles: does it work on Maemo? Nov 25 10:14:16 no idea, but you are welcome to try and report your results Nov 25 10:15:29 that patch is useless Nov 25 10:15:37 unless you are running at 100% all the time Nov 25 10:15:44 itll do nothing, its totally irrelevant to the use-case of the n900 Nov 25 10:16:03 and n900 is slow because it's i/o bound inmost cases Nov 25 10:16:07 rather than cpu bound Nov 25 10:16:22 swappolube! Nov 25 10:16:25 toggles: seems that there is no ~/.bashrc in Maemo Nov 25 10:17:35 the clue is in the name Nov 25 10:17:36 We use busybox, try .profile Nov 25 10:18:05 lcuk: swappolube mostly looks like snake oil to me Nov 25 10:18:16 lcuk: did not help improve thigns either Nov 25 10:19:29 RST38h, depends how you look at it :) perception of improvement is improvement even if it may not be measurable Nov 25 10:19:34 RST38h: Viagrino for the boner in between... Nov 25 10:19:38 well Nov 25 10:19:56 RST38h: have you seen that optimizingN900 script setup Nov 25 10:20:23 this patch could solve the issue when you do something heavy with the N900 and then receive a call and it becomes totally unresponsive Nov 25 10:21:15 RST38h: people trying to make there device stable over longterm use by running it cron'ed, out of curiousity I ran it... straight to reboot Nov 25 10:21:58 s/there/their/ Nov 25 10:21:59 chem|st meant: RST38h: people trying to make their device stable over longterm use by running it cron'ed, out of curiousity I ran it... straight to reboot Nov 25 10:22:30 what is cron? Nov 25 10:22:51 Venemo_N900: repeating events handler Nov 25 10:23:07 chem|st: ah. Nov 25 10:23:32 Venemo_N900: cron is a service you tell to run ever x minutes y hours "this" script Nov 25 10:23:50 chem|st: and what script is it that you run Nov 25 10:24:08 Venemo_N900: you mean that optimizingN900 thing Nov 25 10:24:25 chem|st: never tried Nov 25 10:24:43 Venemo_N900: I tried to convince them in the thread about it to stop doing BS Nov 25 10:24:51 hehe Nov 25 10:25:01 it is basically a "killall *" script Nov 25 10:25:09 lol Nov 25 10:25:18 poor * Nov 25 10:25:20 anyway, I must leave now. will come back a bit later Nov 25 10:25:27 bye guys :) Nov 25 10:25:30 \o Nov 25 10:25:38 and I tried the version the author claimed "is not anymore rebooting the device" Nov 25 10:25:44 omg Nov 25 10:26:27 I said I doubt that it will do any good as they killed like any job the watchdog is after Nov 25 10:27:14 downloadin' the android sdk Nov 25 10:27:27 "by that command you will restart the service"... I said "no you will kill the daemon and watchdog will start it, if you do that twice in 5 seconds it will do a security reboot" Nov 25 10:27:52 guess who was right... Nov 25 10:28:49 restart Nov 25 10:28:52 it is actualy 30 seconds and 60 seconds, depends on service (afair) Nov 25 10:28:57 Gorroth: GL Nov 25 10:29:10 good laugh? Nov 25 10:29:16 luck Nov 25 10:29:28 oh, for what? Nov 25 10:29:44 Gorroth: or did you mean that it restarted the service? Nov 25 10:30:00 i meant it restarted the service Nov 25 10:30:03 i was just making it up Nov 25 10:30:10 my device rebooted... Nov 25 10:30:34 oh Nov 25 10:30:49 you should unregister dsme watchdog before Nov 25 10:31:00 then kill it Nov 25 10:31:02 and restart it Nov 25 10:31:03 Gorroth: killall is only a good idea if you arent able to stop it properly anymore Nov 25 10:31:48 oh, i really wasn't reading the conversation earlier Nov 25 10:31:54 i was just making a lame joke Nov 25 10:32:08 Gorroth: ;) Nov 25 10:32:36 those kiddies on tmo are awesome Nov 25 10:32:44 i like tmo Nov 25 10:32:55 i don't plan to change my service away from them anytime soon Nov 25 10:33:25 they suck Nov 25 10:33:29 ~tmo Nov 25 10:33:30 tmo is, like, http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo Nov 25 10:33:30 o2 is so much better Nov 25 10:33:32 no Nov 25 10:33:35 t-mobile Nov 25 10:34:00 so, O2 isn't better here, because it doesn't exist here Nov 25 10:34:03 does someone here uses syncevolution? Nov 25 10:34:28 Gorroth: over here we call it terrorkom, and I wont contract with them any time again Nov 25 10:34:53 i agree, t-mo us is decent Nov 25 10:35:05 beats the hell out of att at least, the only other gsm/umts carrier Nov 25 10:35:31 oh. over here (USA), they are the smallest of the big 4, meaning they offer the best deals. but i don't contract with them Nov 25 10:35:46 i have a post-pay plan with them on my main phone and a pay-as-you-go on the n900 Nov 25 10:36:04 just for the $1.49 internet when i need it (unlimited 24 hour internet at that price) Nov 25 10:37:06 Gorroth: as they used to be a german governmental service they are the biggest over here, with worst conditions and selling your soul for landlines/iphone/internet Nov 25 10:37:20 in lithuania bite 2euro 7GB for 3g Nov 25 10:37:37 prepay Nov 25 10:37:38 yes, that's kinda like AT&T here Nov 25 10:38:06 10eur per month no-limit Nov 25 10:38:23 well, prices here suck in general for telecoms Nov 25 10:38:32 but that price i quoted is really good for the USA Nov 25 10:38:40 :( Nov 25 10:38:44 Same here. Nov 25 10:39:12 that's a 1eur per day that is fair I guess Nov 25 10:40:01 yeah, and only when i want to use it. Nov 25 10:40:14 so if i only use it a couple times a month, it's only $3 / mo. Nov 25 10:40:35 sure... I guess I do not use it more frequently than 10 times a month Nov 25 10:40:53 and considering i might only use this on the weekends or something when i'm doing "evil stuff" with it, i will probably only pay 3-4 times a month Nov 25 10:41:05 yeah Nov 25 10:41:31 now, my main phone has unlimited internet all the time Nov 25 10:41:43 and it has to stay that way :) it downloads updates and podcasts in the background Nov 25 10:41:55 helps me with GPS directions, etc. Nov 25 10:42:38 Gorroth: my contract should be 20eur but I get a discount as longterm customer so I pay about 4eur for internet and like nothing for mobilephone Nov 25 10:43:22 ah, okay. i'm a recent customer, as of 11 months ago Nov 25 10:43:40 but they didn't jump my price when they increased the prices a little bit on their plans (they gave a little more too, but nothing i needed) Nov 25 10:43:47 so i guess i'm grandfathered in as well from now on Nov 25 10:44:06 and the great thing is that i can change my phone at will and keep that price, unless they change their mind (since there is no contract) :) Nov 25 10:44:14 I had a lucky spot as this was only available for 30days and was not shown at the website Nov 25 10:44:25 nice Nov 25 10:45:08 but with that I gave up the free phone choice forever, did not know that until I was in need of a new phone Nov 25 10:45:48 Gorroth, yeah, tmobile does the grandfathered thing well Nov 25 10:46:00 i've been a customer for 7 years now... Nov 25 10:46:42 had my issues with them, but they don't compare to the horrors i see friends with att have, and at the end of the day, the phone works and the customer service is generally polite Nov 25 10:49:31 heh, and t-mo us is also advertising their 3g network as 4g Nov 25 10:49:49 ieatlint: yeah. i had an iphone but left AT&T and paid the contrac ttermination charge because it was so bad Nov 25 10:49:56 been happy with tmo in the northeast at least Nov 25 10:50:23 i think a big part of their issue is the iphone... too many people Nov 25 10:50:29 the iPhone probably had a lot to do with the poor AT&T quality though, because before that phone, AT&T worked really well for me Nov 25 10:50:33 yeah Nov 25 10:50:40 it's said here that whenever hipsters congregrate, an att cell tower goes down Nov 25 10:50:47 hahaha Nov 25 10:50:55 i hate hipsters so much Nov 25 10:51:11 yeah... and they're all over the place :( Nov 25 10:51:25 i know :( Nov 25 10:52:12 okay, i'm going to sleep while the android sdk does it thing for setup Nov 25 10:52:14 * Gorroth & Nov 25 11:14:30 What's new in Nokia Ovi Suite 3.0 Nov 25 11:14:30 A new Home view Nov 25 11:14:30 * Quick access to my content and sync Nov 25 11:14:30 * Recommended apps, games from Ovi Store Nov 25 11:14:30 * Recommended music from Ovi Music * Nov 25 11:14:32 * Notifications to update your phone software and to take a backup from your phone Nov 25 11:14:35 * Smart way to connect to the Internet when you're without fixed connection or WLAN Nov 25 11:14:38 Introducing Ovi Music Nov 25 11:14:41 * Full playback controls * Discover and download your favourites from the millions of tracks available on Ovi* Nov 25 11:14:44 * Drag music to and from your phone Nov 25 11:14:47 * Ovi Music Unlimited support * Nov 25 11:14:49 * No need for a separate player Nov 25 11:14:52 Other improvements Nov 25 11:14:54 * Faster and simpler installation Nov 25 11:14:57 * Maps view improvements: Single item delete for maps in phone, performance improvements for maps downloading. Nov 25 11:15:02 ooops sry Nov 25 11:15:15 oh yeah btw NOS 3 is now public beta ;) Nov 25 11:16:11 nos3? Nov 25 11:16:14 oh Nov 25 11:17:52 it still sucks and doesnt work properly though :\ Nov 25 11:23:57 so Nov 25 11:24:07 how do i replace my internal battery? Nov 25 11:24:41 Internal battery..? Nov 25 11:24:47 MohammadAG: which internal battery? Nov 25 11:24:56 N900 Nov 25 11:25:04 the one that keeps the clock going Nov 25 11:25:13 i lose settings on each battery replacement Nov 25 11:25:13 are you refering to the mobo-battery? Nov 25 11:25:16 There isn't one - It's the main battery + a capacitor Nov 25 11:25:48 Hey Mo, you still trying to wreck the inside of your 900? ;O) Nov 25 11:26:01 well then my capacitor got fried Nov 25 11:26:09 already did :P Nov 25 11:26:14 MohammadAG: and you seem to "loose" setting also if your sim-card might seem changed, maybe it could be a problem with that as well? Nov 25 11:26:27 MohammadAG: send your n900 to nokia Nov 25 11:26:42 also the batteries are the same internal batteries of the omfr Nov 25 11:26:47 and those batteries sucked ass Nov 25 11:26:49 I know about that, but time doesn't reset if the sim is changed Nov 25 11:26:53 (sez DocScrutinizer) Nov 25 11:27:11 kerio, no Nokia around here Nov 25 11:27:22 which firmware you'd recommend for me? i will remake my n900 this weekend (haven't been updating it for almost two months now and it got too slow to try finding the bugs) Nov 25 11:27:43 omfr? Nov 25 11:27:55 1.3 Nov 25 11:28:38 OpenMoko FreeRunner Nov 25 11:29:12 isn't that another linux handheld? Nov 25 11:29:25 RobbieThe1st: thought it is a battery... Nov 25 11:30:21 MohammadAG: soldered between cam-button and powerbutton on the backside of the mobo Nov 25 11:30:53 soldered? :( Nov 25 11:30:53 hm... Nov 25 11:30:54 and what is this u-boot stuff? Nov 25 11:31:03 Looking at a disassembly video right noq Nov 25 11:31:47 RobbieThe1st, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly Nov 25 11:32:22 Oh. then, right there: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly/21112010098.jpg right above the vibrator motor Nov 25 11:33:04 That's a tiny battery alright Nov 25 11:33:08 RobbieThe1st: yup, that one seems to be it Nov 25 11:33:08 yeah, seen it Nov 25 11:33:28 RobbieThe1st: as I said... Nov 25 11:33:30 So... Pull it out and replace it with something the right voltage? Nov 25 11:33:44 chem|st: I'm not disputing that. Now. Nov 25 11:33:52 RobbieThe1st: ;) Nov 25 11:34:16 I thought it didn't have one due to it always seeming to lose time if the battery was out for more than a few seconds Nov 25 11:34:28 MohammadAG: might be disconnected somehow as these things should runn for like ever Nov 25 11:36:39 Huh, what are those two squarish things on the left and right/top of the device? http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly/21112010103.jpg (left side of picture Nov 25 11:37:32 RobbieThe1st: maybe the speakers? Nov 25 11:37:56 Yea, that would make since Nov 25 11:37:58 indeed Nov 25 11:38:02 well ok... doesn't make much sense though Nov 25 11:38:34 ohhh Nov 25 11:38:39 it does make perfect sense Nov 25 11:38:40 x) Nov 25 11:39:03 i just reminded myself that it has the speaker grill in the top part of it Nov 25 11:39:08 but why face them like that? Nov 25 11:39:35 mikki-kun: Because otherwise the device needs to be an additional 1cm thicker ;) Nov 25 11:39:57 would you even feel that with the already bloated design? ;) Nov 25 11:40:57 nothing against my lovely n900, just at times she feels kinda brick-like... at least that makes for sturyness and prevents unwanted break ups of the device Nov 25 11:41:12 MohammadAG: why did you take your n900 apart again? Nov 25 11:42:09 phone powered off for no reason :/ Nov 25 11:42:54 :( Nov 25 11:43:12 no warranty? Nov 25 11:43:23 Bah! Warranty's are for sissies! Nov 25 11:43:30 (and people who haven Nov 25 11:43:46 t voided it by doing stuff to their n900s) Nov 25 11:43:47 RobbieThe1st: not if your pocket's empty and you want your phone back to working condition Nov 25 11:44:01 nope, it's a US device Nov 25 11:44:16 and in 1 month 3 days it'll expire anyways Nov 25 11:45:14 Heck, I'm not sure I even got a warranty on mine - I got it off eBay, looked up the IMEI number and got "You're phone isn't under warranty". For whatever reason. Nov 25 11:46:03 And of course, it's all moot now anyway - It works fine, and it's been OC'd signifigantly. Nov 25 11:46:08 eu devices are still under warranty until at least end of summer 2011 right? Nov 25 11:48:33 kerio: end of autumn but yes Nov 25 11:48:37 at least mine had two year warranty (and probably same for all of EU), so it will be under warranty until the end of next year Nov 25 11:49:35 Trewas: was shipped in december wasn't it?! Nov 25 11:50:05 chem|st: yeah, I don't think anybody got them before december Nov 25 11:50:12 I mean the earliest devices Nov 25 11:50:19 yep Nov 25 11:50:31 end of autumn then at least Nov 25 11:51:55 * alterego whistles a semi-happy tune .. Nov 25 11:52:56 * MohammadAG sighs Nov 25 11:53:12 alterego: luck grabbed motivation and both are hidding under my desk now... Nov 25 11:56:18 MohammadAG: Did you figure out if you could mess withthe RAM modules inthe N900? Nov 25 11:57:21 chem|st: Heh, I'm having this annoying issue, that if I destroy my BluetoothServer, when I try to recreate it again, if it's being re-enabled, it causes a segfault in an annoyingly unhelpful place. Nov 25 11:57:45 Something weird with sdpd registration me thinks :/ Nov 25 11:57:51 Is it possible to have a segfault in an extremely helpful place? Nov 25 11:58:32 Well, it's not annoying when it's the last call in a program :D Nov 25 11:59:06 sdp_set_profile_descs Nov 25 11:59:11 That's the function that segfaults. Nov 25 11:59:20 On second call. Nov 25 11:59:35 All input data is perfectly valid, everything works fine the first time ... Nov 25 12:00:57 Laptop is about to die Nov 25 12:00:59 bbl Nov 25 12:01:36 Okay, fixed the issue Nov 25 12:01:37 :D Nov 25 12:01:38 bbl Nov 25 12:07:07 alterego: I got a problem just alike with BT (networking), first time everything is fine, disconnect and I am not even able to pair the devices again, both sides seem to be in proper state Nov 25 12:08:13 restarting BT and dhcpd and stuff did never help btw Nov 25 12:08:39 only once per laptop boot... Nov 25 13:12:06 can somebody also sum some important break throughs from the past two months in maemo (except pr1.3 and usb host seeming to work and a new power kernel) Nov 25 13:13:19 any apps or hacks you'd recommend so my n900 will be even faster (except OCing, doesn't help much if the IOs get too much) Nov 25 13:13:56 Oh, USB hostmode works now? Nov 25 13:14:09 at least i heard it is supposed to at least be beta now for everybody Nov 25 13:14:34 By works, does that mean without rebooting/screwing around with files/performing voodoo? Nov 25 13:15:29 seems to be abled at kernel-level Nov 25 13:15:32 *enabled Nov 25 13:15:43 so it is a one time rebooting it seems Nov 25 13:16:22 but when playing with the kernel, it can be nasty in the end Nov 25 13:16:29 if it fails to install properly Nov 25 13:17:07 then your n900 will be introduced into the world of infinite loops Nov 25 13:18:39 Oh, I've had that. Was a HW problem though. Nov 25 13:19:19 mikki-kun: uninstall hildon-desktop, do everything from the command line Nov 25 13:19:20 * BCMM ducks Nov 25 13:19:35 (to go faster, i mean) Nov 25 13:19:37 install gentoo? Nov 25 13:19:56 BCMM: compiling everything on that poor arm?! Ö.ö Nov 25 13:19:59 you crazy? Nov 25 13:20:03 How on earth would you make a call from the command line? Nov 25 13:20:13 Or, for that matter, accept one? Nov 25 13:20:13 uh Nov 25 13:20:14 it takes already my atom n280 ages at times Nov 25 13:20:16 dbus? i dunno Nov 25 13:20:29 mikki-kun: nah, you'd use distcc Nov 25 13:20:38 Warning! You cannot accept a call at this time, as your operator privilidges are too low! Nov 25 13:20:43 i think maemo relies heavily on dbus for that Nov 25 13:21:09 BCMM: but then it ain't -march=native! Nov 25 13:21:10 sudo call_the_bloody_fire_brigade Nov 25 13:21:15 and i want -march=native! Nov 25 13:21:32 i'm pretty sure there's a way to find out what -march=native means Nov 25 13:21:50 lscpu and then check what it states Nov 25 13:21:58 besides, it's Gentoo. the whole point is that you have a stupidly long list of flags that don't do anything Nov 25 13:22:00 * BCMM ducks again Nov 25 13:22:01 then do some manual searching and hacking Nov 25 13:22:32 i didn't know lscpu Nov 25 13:22:35 but i already don't like it Nov 25 13:22:48 it's missing bogomips, the only true measure of performance Nov 25 13:24:25 mikki-kun: ok, for a not-stupid suggestion to speed things up: disable tracker Nov 25 13:24:36 or restrict it to a subdirectory Nov 25 13:25:05 that's a big one, and it targets IO Nov 25 13:25:25 BCMM: i#ve already tweaked it to only certain dirs Nov 25 13:26:42 Description: Gentoo Base System release 2.0.1-r1 Nov 25 13:27:00 just for you BCMM so you know what i use as my main os :) Nov 25 13:27:15 oh, me too. i actually have quite sane cflags too Nov 25 13:27:29 i just don't think it's fair for me to miss out on the fun-poking just cause i use it Nov 25 13:27:54 mikki-kun: where is that string from, btw? Nov 25 13:28:48 BCMM lsb-release is the packages name, you can then use "lsb_release -d" to get that shown Nov 25 13:29:05 heh, i didn't know we could install lsb-release Nov 25 13:29:27 sys-apps/lsb-release Nov 25 13:29:45 it'll be just like using ubuntu now Nov 25 13:30:17 how come? Nov 25 13:30:46 well, it's the easiest way to identify ubuntu's version Nov 25 13:30:47 you mean meego? that will turn out even worse i guess Nov 25 13:31:10 wasn't that by "uname -a" as nobody tweaks his kernel-string? Nov 25 13:31:12 and the main thing i do when fixing ubuntu for people seems to be pointing out that they missed a dist-upgrade ages ago Nov 25 13:31:21 x) Nov 25 13:31:37 heh, does lsb_release on gentoo do anything other than tell you your baselayout version? Nov 25 13:31:53 it isn't really very meaningful on a rolling-release system... Nov 25 13:32:28 http://linux.die.net/man/1/lsb_release Nov 25 13:32:39 heh, only just noticed - are you running ~arch? Nov 25 13:33:24 i'd be insane if not to Nov 25 13:33:57 THIS. IS. GENTOO! i mean i live by solving problems coming up from upgrades :) Nov 25 13:34:16 gets my braincells every now and then also a little activated Nov 25 13:35:04 but you can get more problems by simply keywording a random assortment of packages so they break when you don't keyword the deps! Nov 25 13:37:08 i've some of the stuff masked to a certain version e.g. xorg is still 1.7-something... i am not up to solve xorg's problems... i've had more luck solving schrödinger's time independant equation than getting 1.8 working for a long time though following the guides Nov 25 13:37:14 i'm starting to feel offtopic Nov 25 13:40:29 Maemo is dead Nov 25 13:40:34 why do we still have a channel? Nov 25 13:40:35 :/ Nov 25 13:41:01 siriusnova, because else you will not be able to post about your stupidity Nov 25 13:41:03 due to the n900 still living and kicking ass! Nov 25 13:41:13 i have an n900 Nov 25 13:42:28 i still think the n900 is an awesome device Nov 25 13:42:35 if I want to install flash on maemo, which package do i get? Nov 25 13:42:49 it is already installed by default Nov 25 13:43:04 9.3.something imo Nov 25 13:43:04 well in the sdk it deals me I don't have it Nov 25 13:43:14 n900 is awesome, it would be awesomer if Nokia wasnt a clueless corporation regarding its own devices Nov 25 13:43:21 ahhh, in the sdk... dunno, sorry Nov 25 13:43:34 siriusnova, don't be mad they dumped gtk Nov 25 13:43:56 the n900 has too much slow storage, too few fast storage and problems with the ram imo Nov 25 13:44:18 I don't own one so I don't know Nov 25 13:44:21 whiney bitches Nov 25 13:44:46 it's leaps and bounds above n770 and n810, you knew what you were getting into Nov 25 13:45:20 well wait for the N9 Nov 25 13:46:22 comawhite: not with meego Nov 25 13:46:35 it seems to be utter crap imo Nov 25 13:46:47 drm, everything closed by default... Nov 25 13:46:53 i won't just get it then Nov 25 13:47:14 mikki-kun, meego looks great Nov 25 13:47:24 just too bad it's hardware picky Nov 25 13:47:25 :| Nov 25 13:47:44 i don't like it being closed Nov 25 13:48:16 goes against my (F)OSS policy Nov 25 13:48:43 I thought it was open Nov 25 13:48:47 meego, closed? Nov 25 13:49:06 at least it is by default an option, it can be opened though Nov 25 13:49:32 Are you sure you read enough about the project? Nov 25 13:50:28 mikki-kun: meego as a project is more open than maemo, I guess what you're speaking about is the normal vs. open mode which is about the security system Nov 25 13:50:59 (and some vendors might not enable open mode at all, that's true) Nov 25 13:51:21 security system? i thought it was affecting the whole system Nov 25 13:52:06 maybe because security has to be taken system-wide? Nov 25 13:52:11 its two modes that either enable drm and hardware signing or disable it, neither affects the fact that the platform's oss though. Nov 25 13:52:46 yeah, but the platform beeing oss is one thing, the OS running on the device is another Nov 25 13:53:18 does that mean that the whole system is either in a "run signed stuff" state or a "run open stuff" state, or that each application is in one mode or the other and they are somewhat sandboxed from interacting with each other? Nov 25 13:53:22 depending on who you are, it's not the same one which matters :) Nov 25 13:53:34 BCMM: system-wide Nov 25 13:53:35 BCMM its the system as a whole Nov 25 13:53:38 needing a reboot Nov 25 13:53:44 to switch from one mode to another Nov 25 13:54:08 so there is basically an "iphone mode" where you can run signed stuff but aren't allowed to install stuff you wrote? Nov 25 13:54:40 https://lwn.net/Articles/415833/ Nov 25 13:54:52 so there isn't yet anything GPLv3-licensed which is truly necessary for a linux distro then Nov 25 13:55:05 http://wiki.meego.com/Security Nov 25 13:56:10 " When Ware asked how many in the audience had used their phone for banking, he got quite a few hands; "you're all screwed", he said." -er, what? Nov 25 13:56:28 sensible browsers don't store that data... Nov 25 13:56:48 mikki-kun, Meego is open source Nov 25 13:57:03 Is MeeGo an open source project or a product? Nov 25 13:57:03 MeeGo is an open source project hosted by the Linux Foundation that encourages community contributions in accordance with the best practices of the open source development model. Nov 25 13:57:09 BCMM: no, open mode is required for low level development, application developpment can be done using normal mode Nov 25 13:57:19 ah i see Nov 25 13:57:28 but the kernel at least is tivoised? Nov 25 13:57:45 tivoised? Nov 25 13:58:15 One good thing about Meego it's based on Qt :) Nov 25 13:58:16 source is GPL'ed or similar, but you can't actually replace teh code Nov 25 13:59:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoisation Nov 25 13:59:28 like so many things in the world today, Linus doesn't understand why RMS is so upset about it Nov 25 14:01:37 BCMM, hum ... so will run only signed app too ? and for pyqt apps ? Nov 25 14:02:57 i don't know Nov 25 14:03:08 Protection of the software deployment chain by cryptography-based source authentication and ranking to prevent attacks via malicious repositories. <<< third party repository exclude Nov 25 14:03:12 i'm asking how it works Nov 25 14:03:13 a good start Nov 25 14:03:36 to prevent me to switch to meego :) Nov 25 14:03:46 yeah... Nov 25 14:04:11 woah, wiki says mer is giving up because of meego Nov 25 14:05:16 is there currently an alternative being worked on for use to use in the event that meego turns out to suck and hate freedom? Nov 25 14:05:27 (to totally exaggerate a bit) Nov 25 14:06:12 really mer on maemo wiki is define as : Mer is now an inactive project, due to the introduction of the MeeGo (http://www.meego.com) project which shares a similar mission as Mer. Mer was a community research project into an open and openly developed Maemo platform. Nov 25 14:06:53 so is meego going to be more open, apart from the whole secure mode thing? Nov 25 14:07:17 i mean, if one is prepered to just ignore payway DRM apps, will it be a pretty much open distro or what? Nov 25 14:07:23 ^payware Nov 25 14:08:33 secure != open Nov 25 14:09:06 i mean, will it be feasible to just strip out the evil bits, if one isn't interested in paying for apps? Nov 25 14:10:13 ...but it's not open in sense that i would know the answer :) Nov 25 14:10:18 sx0n, secure can be open ... Nov 25 14:10:29 BCMM: that depends on the bootloader first and foremost Nov 25 14:10:57 so will depends on device manufacturers ? Nov 25 14:11:06 khertan_, my point exactly. it's not tautology Nov 25 14:11:06 i have no idea how the n900 boot process works Nov 25 14:11:16 BCMM: if your device's bootloader is designed to start signed kernels only, then there's not anything you can do Nov 25 14:11:33 well, the n900 is clearly capable of starting arbitrary kernels Nov 25 14:11:50 i certainly wouldn't use a device that wasn't Nov 25 14:12:01 i mean, wouldn't get one for myself Nov 25 14:12:23 stuff like hostmode would've been impossible if the n900's kernel wasn't modifiable Nov 25 14:12:29 I wonder how a SNES emulator works on maemo Nov 25 14:12:51 BCMM: this can change any time, with arbitrary future updates. Nov 25 14:13:16 as i said, i have no idea how the boot system works... Nov 25 14:13:30 comawhite, really well ... specially with a bluetooth gamepad Nov 25 14:13:38 comawhite, tv out works also Nov 25 14:14:03 you mean they could push an update that flashes new firmware to whatever the equivalent of a bios is? Nov 25 14:14:14 BCMM: yet if e.g. meego is designed to run in secure mode, then switching to open mode will leave you with a custom kernel and none of the proprietary apps running on that Nov 25 14:14:51 yes, i was wondering how much stuff will be secured Nov 25 14:15:02 nobody can tell Nov 25 14:15:03 DocScrutinizer, just hope that phone feature will not be proprietary :) Nov 25 14:15:11 i mean, will that mean no 3rd party payware, or no phone calls? Nov 25 14:15:22 yes, basically Nov 25 14:15:28 heh Nov 25 14:16:32 while my n900 run, got the last PyQt and Qt release, i think i ll still use it even if better hw with meego is release Nov 25 14:16:43 khertan_, do they have a PSX one? Nov 25 14:17:07 I didn't see it in the manager Nov 25 14:17:49 comawhite, psx is but i didn't follow if it s work well Nov 25 14:17:56 ah okay Nov 25 14:18:35 * comawhite needs to find a way to buy a n900 that has the US-international keyboard on it Nov 25 14:18:36 there is a emulator to run palm pre game using sdl like Need for speed :) Nov 25 14:20:09 comawhite, some keyboard variants really sucks Nov 25 14:21:11 yeah I need the umlauts which the US version doesn't have Nov 25 14:21:18 comawhite: I changed the keymat on mine, when the .de qwertz layout annoyed me too much Nov 25 14:21:43 qwertz is annoying Nov 25 14:22:02 the missing direct up/down cursor is annoying Nov 25 14:23:14 When I have to press blue-left for up, then entering shift-up gets clumsy and entering blue-up is impossible Nov 25 14:23:16 mhmm Nov 25 14:29:40 I was out walking, testing my GPS app and boom http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/Screenshot-20101118-121229.png Nov 25 14:29:43 I was abducted by aliens Nov 25 14:30:18 ROFL Nov 25 14:30:49 alterego, messed up portrait and landscape layouts? :P Nov 25 14:31:17 alterego: it has certain geek appeal :) Nov 25 14:32:01 alterego, btw, crop the bottom left area and make an icon out of it, looks sexy Nov 25 14:32:15 MohammadAG: :) Nov 25 14:32:41 That was actually a mixture of botched rendering in landscape whilst view switching and also a transition from portrait to landscape. Nov 25 14:32:51 It happened when I was implementing that background image. Nov 25 14:36:39 anybody got a hint for me on how to spy/intercept on the number dialed in phone app? Nov 25 14:37:18 like "No No! don't call that number! (call cancelled)" Nov 25 14:37:51 is not a blacklist Nov 25 14:37:54 app already ? Nov 25 14:38:03 hmm Nov 25 14:38:06 i mean , don't exist a blacklist app already ? Nov 25 14:38:09 i think i saw one Nov 25 14:38:14 in tmo Nov 25 14:38:15 yeah gotya Nov 25 14:38:29 don't remember any Nov 25 14:39:02 Should be pretty much the same, but with a different dbus signal. Nov 25 14:39:15 I implemented one in Python ages ago, but I never really did anything with it. Nov 25 14:39:17 Lost now .. Nov 25 14:39:33 :-( Nov 25 14:40:04 I gather when it's actually a dbus msg, then you can't intercept it? Nov 25 14:40:49 signal, sorry ;) Nov 25 14:40:52 anyone know how to get rid of this annoying warning? "hildon-desktop[8235]: GLIB WARNING ** ClutterX11 - Failed to get XImage of pixmap: e0003a, removing" Nov 25 14:40:52 DocScrutinizer: http://www.mynokiaworld.com/2010/02/block-unwanted-calls-on-your-n900/ Nov 25 14:41:04 E0x: :-D Nov 25 14:41:29 That's the wrong way though, you want outgoing right? Nov 25 14:42:18 yes Nov 25 14:42:19 DocScrutinizer: that is old but i am pretty sure i saw something "more new" at tmo Nov 25 14:42:32 it's a call-rejecter for inbound Nov 25 14:42:52 I need a call-blocker for outbound Nov 25 14:43:50 oh Nov 25 14:43:55 delete the contact Nov 25 14:43:57 :P Nov 25 14:44:24 every proper phone has a function to restrict dialable numbers to one group in contacts, or to 10 or 1 specially defined numbers Nov 25 14:44:34 E0x: BS Nov 25 14:45:22 DocScrutinizer: the logic is the same Nov 25 14:45:37 You just need to replace the incoming call dbus signal handler to accept the outgoing call dbus signal. Nov 25 14:45:45 this function commonly known as children's emergency call. Dial any number, always connect to same destination Nov 25 14:45:49 I might mock something up for you tonight :P Nov 25 14:46:38 alterego: anyway how would I *intercept* the msg? I gather I only could immediately cancle the original call and replace it by my own Nov 25 14:47:12 Oh, you want to hijack the call .. Nov 25 14:47:16 yep Nov 25 14:47:25 or block it Nov 25 14:47:26 Yes, that's what I'd do. Nov 25 14:47:38 Well, I thought you meant block, so that's exactly what I was saying before. Nov 25 14:47:42 ugly - leaves room for races Nov 25 14:47:54 How quick can you dial? Nov 25 14:48:18 how quick can cellmo establish a call that costs $$$ Nov 25 14:48:30 It wont even establish a call Nov 25 14:48:46 Not if you get the right signal. Nov 25 14:49:03 caller-gui will send a call cmd when you hit the green button Nov 25 14:49:36 with the complete number you dialed, and cellmo will start to establish that call immediately Nov 25 14:50:52 There's quite a few stages to call establishing. Nov 25 14:50:58 The last of which is the one that costs you money. Nov 25 14:51:07 At least for me .. Nov 25 14:51:12 and tbh I'm not certain caller-ui -> cellmo is via dbus at all Nov 25 14:51:30 It's not, you're listening for signals from cellmo Nov 25 14:51:38 yep Nov 25 14:51:58 I guess caller-ui is talking to libisi directly Nov 25 14:52:16 If you can press hangup, dispite sluggish N900 callui before a call is established. I'm sure you can manage to do it in code. Nov 25 14:52:25 so maybe I could do an evil hack along LD_PRELOAD Nov 25 14:52:26 Maybe. Nov 25 14:52:38 Yes, you could, but what would be the point? Nov 25 14:52:56 It's like a 15 minute script. Nov 25 14:54:02 there's a window for races, you can't tell how many milliseconds it takes until cellmo really causes trouble for you, after it got the command to dial a premium number or even a emergency number etc Nov 25 14:56:09 Well, rtcom-call-ui doesn't link directly to libisi Nov 25 14:56:14 I think it uses dbus. Nov 25 14:56:25 you might be in a hospital or a dynamite factory where it's generally strictly forbidden to do any calls. Still you might want to allow 911 calls *only* Nov 25 14:56:27 Which makes sense tbh. Nov 25 14:56:52 alterego: thanks, that's a great bit of info Nov 25 14:57:09 telepathy? Nov 25 14:57:24 I'm still looking into it ;) Nov 25 14:57:31 :-D Nov 25 14:57:37 Wow, that's a lot of dbus traffic. Nov 25 14:58:06 Looks like telepathy is definitely involved. Nov 25 14:58:08 yeah, did this when I investigated contact-specific ringtone shit Nov 25 14:58:16 Yeah, I think that's where it starts. Nov 25 14:58:35 telepathy is a libcall or a dbus msg? Nov 25 14:58:43 dbus method_call Nov 25 14:58:48 coooool Nov 25 14:59:03 well, maybe not. Anyway Nov 25 14:59:26 /org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Account/ring/tel/rung com.nokia.Account.Interface.ChannelRequests.Create Nov 25 14:59:40 I'd need to intercept the dbus signal/msg from call-ui to telepathy Nov 25 14:59:51 That's /ring/tel/ring btw ;) Nov 25 15:00:03 :nod: Nov 25 15:00:46 alas there's no way to intercept dbus Nov 25 15:01:06 except LD_PRELOAD MyOwnDbusLib Nov 25 15:01:23 or hacking dbus daemon :-o Nov 25 15:01:48 hmm, there's such a weird thing called policies for dbus Nov 25 15:02:04 tbh, if you get the first request, there is a lot of time before cellmo gets it ;) Nov 25 15:02:37 I *might* be able to block *all* signals from call-ui to telepathy, and then resend the ones I like from my own proxy Nov 25 15:02:59 Yeah, bit too much effort and I don't think it's necessary :P Nov 25 15:03:13 alterego: I like to design a clean architecture, not a "mostly works under normal conditions" Nov 25 15:03:33 Sure, I understand the sentiment. Nov 25 15:05:04 Oh, regarding app activation schemes, I was thinking of 1. Accept payment with related email address. 2. Application startup requires activation with email address. 3. IMEI is used to generate a unique hash based on IMEI and email which is encrypted and sent from my server. Nov 25 15:05:10 :-) /etc/dbus-1/system.d/* Nov 25 15:05:27 That way I don't need someone to send me their IMEI for custom binaries/packages. Nov 25 15:06:06 alterego: sounds good Nov 25 15:06:31 I think that makes sense, I've not thoroughly thought it all out yet, but the strategy would basically mean I wouldn't ever have the IMEI on my side of the fence, so to speak. Nov 25 15:07:34 :nod: Nov 25 15:07:54 It's not perfect, there's the possibility of a race condition ;) Nov 25 15:08:18 Say, gan orders, and you register with his email, is activation would fail. If you managed to do it inbetween his purchase and activation. Nov 25 15:08:27 Oh wait, I had a solution to that. Nov 25 15:08:47 I was going to email an activation code to the email address, then do an activation negotiation and lock. Nov 25 15:09:14 Though I still want to make it as easy as possible for end users. Nov 25 15:09:22 you're going to do an activation check on every startup? Nov 25 15:09:42 open navigator ... and put the activation code in the field on your website Nov 25 15:09:50 use paypal for paiement Nov 25 15:09:53 nidO: no, once the lock is in place upon activation it wont need to happen again. Nov 25 15:10:24 Activation is my program asking for an unlock code from my server in order to operate on a specific device. Nov 25 15:10:50 so you can only activate based on an email address once? whats the method for accommodating users who change device? Nov 25 15:10:57 you generate a crypted version of the email addr and send that back to user as token, he enters this into app to unlock, where app decrypts the token with your public key stored inside app and compares this to the plain text email add user also entered to app Nov 25 15:11:03 alterego: ^^ Nov 25 15:11:15 DocScrutinizer: yeah, Nov 25 15:11:27 nidO: my descretion. Nov 25 15:11:41 No guarantees of multiple device licenses. Nov 25 15:11:52 Wait, that didn't make sense. Nov 25 15:12:09 users could spread the token, but it's worthless without the matching email addr, and users will usually hesitate to spread that Nov 25 15:12:13 I mean, I'm not going to guarantee that I'll let you use multiple devices, but I might. Nov 25 15:12:30 DocScrutinizer: my thoughts exactly :) Nov 25 15:12:40 DocScrutinizer: and it's traceable ;) Nov 25 15:12:43 mainly talking about changing device not using several, will people have to manually contact you if their n900 dies and they replace it? Nov 25 15:12:43 Kind of. Nov 25 15:12:51 nidO: yes. Nov 25 15:13:42 nidO: in the event of my death, I'm sure whoever cracks my scheme will have versions on various torrent sites indexed at tmo :P Nov 25 15:13:46 with my scheme they don't need to. Just enter their mail addr and token to new device Nov 25 15:14:03 DocScrutinizer: oh, I see what you're saying there. Nov 25 15:14:15 Yeah, I was going to lock email to IMEI, but token is a good idea. Nov 25 15:14:40 Basically an authentication user/pass combination. Nov 25 15:14:46 token == crypted email addr Nov 25 15:14:48 Which gains the lock. Nov 25 15:15:18 people lose emailed information though, a method of on-app requesting to resend the token to email would be very useful if you go that route Nov 25 15:15:29 nidO: meh, Nov 25 15:15:36 then the app, on verifying token matches addr entered, it locks itself to IMEI Nov 25 15:15:48 nidO: I'll make a request form on the webpage. Nov 25 15:15:57 DocScrutinizer: yes, exactly! :) Nov 25 15:16:20 Though, that step may become unnecessary. Nov 25 15:16:37 I want first run to ping my server and validate that the username has purchased and is not blacklisted. Nov 25 15:16:47 Then afterwards it doesn't matter. Nov 25 15:18:13 if locked-to-IMEI and (IMEI-lock == actual-IMEI) then start-real-app; else start-token-verification-and-lock-to-IMEI; Nov 25 15:19:39 Should be a fun little project. Nov 25 15:19:43 I'll try and release it FOSS :) Nov 25 15:19:49 client/server mechanism. Nov 25 15:20:28 check both conditions locked-to-IMEI(), and (IMEI-lock == actual-IMEI), on a few random places in your code. Change these checks from version to version Nov 25 15:20:48 DocScrutinizer: Yeah, already thought of that ;) Nov 25 15:21:22 Needs to be inline code aswell, don't want someone cracking a function Nov 25 15:21:30 yep Nov 25 15:21:39 should be easy enough Nov 25 15:21:42 I was thinking of all of that last night whilst trying to drift off to sleep. Nov 25 15:22:52 alterego, I mentioned it once, and I'll mention it again Nov 25 15:23:01 if you're using dbus, someone can fake the dbus reply Nov 25 15:23:10 Who's using dbus? Nov 25 15:23:37 I use dbus to detect screen lock. Nov 25 15:23:39 how do you check the IMEI? Nov 25 15:23:48 Dunno, not implemented yet. Nov 25 15:23:54 I wouldn't use dbus though :P Nov 25 15:24:02 there's no other way afaik Nov 25 15:24:10 Don't have to use IMEI either Nov 25 15:24:25 We're using IMEI as a placeholder text for "some unique machine id thingy". Nov 25 15:24:30 there is, e.g pnatd. But honestly it doesn't matter much Nov 25 15:24:46 exactly Nov 25 15:25:31 and the point is not the lock to this particular IMEI, but rather the link from activation to email-addr Nov 25 15:26:09 anybody publishing a executable with activation and IMEI faker would disclose his email-addr Nov 25 15:28:42 so strictly spoken it's not even mandatory to lock the app to imei, it's just an additional 'help' for user to rethink sharing his executable Nov 25 15:29:44 the basic security function is the executable incorporates a watermark that holds user's email addr Nov 25 15:30:29 Hm. Where can I finf some kind of error log on Maemo 5? Nov 25 15:30:35 and any "check for update" call could nuke a pirated version Nov 25 15:30:48 My cam appa dies as soon as I open the lens cover. Nov 25 15:31:06 Zucca: uninstall fcam Nov 25 15:31:26 I suppose you got power kernel Nov 25 15:31:39 Ok. fcam didn't caused this before. Nov 25 15:31:55 Yes. Powerkernel because of Mobile Hotspot. Nov 25 15:32:09 you got a new kernel, and the fcam drivers don't match it Nov 25 15:32:27 * Zucca uninstalls fcam and its drivers. Nov 25 15:33:01 cya folks Nov 25 16:33:44 woo... just spent 2h learning jpeglib to replace gd in an app, and managed to cut processing time by 20% and lower memory usage from 91.8mb to 278kb Nov 25 16:34:53 Sounds like an easy gd bug to fix. :) Nov 25 16:35:09 not a bug Nov 25 16:35:47 i'm analyzing colour data of jpeg images, so i can read 1 line at a time... gd isn't designed for this, and by default loads the entire raw image into memory Nov 25 16:39:22 gm to all Nov 25 16:49:40 grr Nov 25 16:49:59 two APs with same ssid, and N900 doesn't "roam" Nov 25 16:50:10 * ShadowJK ponders Nov 25 16:52:30 Both APs have the same security method, and the same key, right? Nov 25 16:52:38 ShadowJK: pathological situation, Roaming between APs with same SSID is considered intra-wlan handover, and needs support from AP to propagate regisration to the network from one AP to another Nov 25 16:53:30 ShadowJK: also both APs need to share same "wired" network and same DHCP server Nov 25 16:54:39 ShadowJK: I don't know if N900 wlan supports this client side, but for sure it won't work if AP side doesn't fully support it Nov 25 16:55:36 i've used wifi roaming on the n900 at a couple conferences... unencrypted only though Nov 25 16:56:33 the client was smart enough to hop bssids seemingly... Nov 25 16:56:51 simple wifi roaming isn't anything special. your client detects there's an allowed AP with better signal, and associates to that new AP, incl AUTH, DHCP and all Nov 25 16:56:56 but there was no real renegotiation, as no key auth, and my dhcp lease was still vaid Nov 25 16:57:15 o.O Nov 25 16:57:23 valid Nov 25 16:57:56 ok, so I assume this was a correctly set up multi-AP wlan Nov 25 16:58:40 and it seems to indicate the network manager of whatever system you used handled this correctly Nov 25 16:59:01 eh, worked on my n900 and my laptop with wpa_supplicant Nov 25 16:59:12 but my dhcp client is not connected to wpa_supplicant Nov 25 16:59:23 DHCP lease handover between unrelated APs won't work though, for obvious reasons Nov 25 16:59:34 hey, it could work, by chance :P Nov 25 16:59:59 and yeah, the network was setup properly Nov 25 17:00:20 it could also work by asking DHCP server of new AP to give me identical lease Nov 25 17:00:31 but my point is that dhcp i don't believe reconfirms its lease when hopping Nov 25 17:00:50 yeah, any dhcp servers would need to be linked, so as not to issue conflicting leases Nov 25 17:01:01 yep Nov 25 17:02:37 anyway, i definitely maintained connections on my n900 without any cell signal and walking well beyond the range of any single ap, so i would say it does support roaming on at least unencrypted networks Nov 25 17:02:55 this whole topic is a real PITA when you try to share your neighbours' APs and they all kept the default setup like SSID="WLAN" Nov 25 17:03:40 :-P Nov 25 17:04:00 if you're talking a small amount of APs and a small number of clients, just use the poor man solution: dhcp pools that don't overlap :P Nov 25 17:04:08 Thats why you do them a favour by breaking in, and setting it all more securely XD Nov 25 17:04:55 or setup a host someone on the internet, and change their default route to go through you so you can monitor what they do by remote Nov 25 17:05:05 bleh, s/someone/somewhere Nov 25 17:05:19 ...which I actually did occasionally, as that poor guy had the whole config of his AP exposed, including phone numbers dialed etc Nov 25 17:06:17 ieatlint: heh, nice idea Nov 25 17:06:54 hey quick question Nov 25 17:07:02 what do I replace vi with in pr 1.2 Nov 25 17:07:07 when enabling red pill mode Nov 25 17:07:17 errr? Nov 25 17:07:38 replacing vi? with what Nov 25 17:07:44 why? Nov 25 17:07:45 another command id guess Nov 25 17:08:02 the file just isnt there according to the wiki Nov 25 17:08:11 and what that got to do with red-pill? Nov 25 17:08:21 you need the command to enable it Nov 25 17:08:28 at least to my knowledge Nov 25 17:08:35 aaaah Nov 25 17:08:37 if there is another way id love to know Nov 25 17:08:54 you're asking for any proper editor in PR1.2? Nov 25 17:08:57 you're missing vi in pr1.2? Nov 25 17:09:12 uh if i understand what you're saying, if you cant figure out using another text editor than vi you probably dont want to be using red pill... Nov 25 17:09:16 so if I get a better editor it should come with vi? Nov 25 17:09:29 nidO: ACK Nov 25 17:09:31 vi is an editor Nov 25 17:09:47 oh what Nov 25 17:09:49 What support do we have in Qt for finding prefered mass storage? Nov 25 17:09:52 For applications? Nov 25 17:10:02 ahhh ok Nov 25 17:10:07 alterego: QDesktopServices::storageLocation Nov 25 17:10:16 I think ill go get an editor then Nov 25 17:10:17 might have the method wrong... double check that Nov 25 17:10:24 Thanks :) Nov 25 17:10:31 Yeah, that's a good help Nov 25 17:11:07 oh, right, storageLocation() takes a type argument for things like data/temp/etc Nov 25 17:11:08 myuu: check mc (midnight commander) Nov 25 17:11:22 myuu: comes with built in editor Nov 25 17:11:25 ieatlint: yeah Nov 25 17:11:28 myuu: (F3) Nov 25 17:11:33 I'll give it a go and see if it works okay. Nov 25 17:11:52 even better Nov 25 17:12:10 err F4, aka ESC;4 Nov 25 17:12:56 still nidO's point stands Nov 25 17:13:17 you probably dont want to be using red pill... Nov 25 17:13:17 im only getting a few things Nov 25 17:13:22 I dont want to brick my phone Nov 25 17:13:39 trust me im not doing any power user stuff till I learn more Nov 25 17:13:41 Hmm, I was going to ask that... Its Esc+number for the F keys on the N900? Nov 25 17:14:03 myuu: :-D it's your phone :-P Nov 25 17:14:06 Or is it app specific? Nov 25 17:14:33 yeah but its good to learn first, thanks for the help guys ill stick around Nov 25 17:15:07 How is setting up a headless NAS a completely alien expectation. . . . Nov 25 17:15:19 "/home/developer/.local/share/data/" Nov 25 17:15:23 What an aweful location. Nov 25 17:15:27 ~awful. Nov 25 17:15:42 GAN900: depends on the target platform :-P Nov 25 17:15:48 alterego: you didn't set your app name is why Nov 25 17:16:08 DocScrutinizer, what internal battery does the N900 use? Nov 25 17:16:11 GAN900: probably for a timex watch it's quite alien Nov 25 17:16:12 ieatlint: oh, I didn't add rx/columbus on the end. Nov 25 17:16:16 That's still bad. Nov 25 17:16:19 the default location will be ~/.local/share/data/orgName/appName/ Nov 25 17:16:34 mahthat backup battery? Nov 25 17:16:42 It's a terrible place to put my tracklogs ... Nov 25 17:16:48 the one for time DocScrutinizer Nov 25 17:16:49 DocScrutinizer, FreeNAS on Intel SS4200. Nov 25 17:16:50 MohammadAG: ^^ Nov 25 17:16:56 eh... doesn't clobber anything, and invisible to user in theory Nov 25 17:17:15 Hi is here somebody using geos-3.2.2 on the n810? Nov 25 17:17:19 MohammadAG: unclear, seems similar to the ne FreeRunner is using. Also seems similarly crappy Nov 25 17:17:25 DocScrutinizer, it's called mahthat? Nov 25 17:17:35 the module/method also works across windows/osx/symbian/linux, so convenient for uniformity Nov 25 17:17:37 :-P Nov 25 17:17:43 what's the FreeRunner using? Nov 25 17:17:45 typo+ETAB Nov 25 17:18:29 MohammadAG: what's your question? Nov 25 17:18:39 what info do you need? Nov 25 17:18:49 I think I prefer /home/user/.cache/rx/columbus for my logs Nov 25 17:18:51 what replacement battery should I get Nov 25 17:19:04 One that works. Nov 25 17:19:12 MohammadAG: replacement batteries are also dead after 3 months Nov 25 17:19:16 alterego, or chown user:users /opt/rx and use that :) Nov 25 17:19:22 pfft Nov 25 17:19:28 That's not UNIX :P Nov 25 17:19:28 DocScrutinizer, so? I'm stuck with an N900 that doesn't save time? Nov 25 17:19:32 How did you manage to kill your mobo-battery, Mo? Nov 25 17:19:39 Some users of FreeRunners had good results with using a 1F goldcap Nov 25 17:20:27 CableTwitch, no idea, it just forgets time now Nov 25 17:20:37 Weird. Nov 25 17:20:41 it's a really huge still small formfactor capacitor, that will backup time for several hours Nov 25 17:21:19 so while it's significantly worse than a good backup battery, it will not break and after 3 months it's superior Nov 25 17:21:27 Wedge a CR232 in there :O) Nov 25 17:23:16 I got ~50 backup battery spare parts here, all unused, all broken just from storing them 1 year without refresh charging Nov 25 17:23:59 if you pay postage you can get them all :-P Nov 25 17:24:32 How does the battery lose charge after only 3 months? Nov 25 17:24:32 or you buy a similarly broken spare at your local electronics shoppe Nov 25 17:25:17 it loses sealing, it's leaking, it breaks internally from deep discharge or from heat while soldering or whatnot Nov 25 17:25:40 fubar by design Nov 25 17:25:47 forget about it Nov 25 17:25:59 DocScrutinizer: Ah, I see... Nov 25 17:26:05 Same wired network, same dhcp server Nov 25 17:26:19 WAP and same key Nov 25 17:26:37 but they don't talk with eachother Nov 25 17:26:39 WAP? Not overly fussed about security then? ;O) Nov 25 17:26:39 wap will need handover of credentials as well Nov 25 17:27:08 WPA? Nov 25 17:27:27 * CableTwitch got confused with WEP. Nov 25 17:27:33 I guess he means WPA, yes. Nov 25 17:27:45 ssh sessions survive fine, etc, because I get the same IP of course... but the os still signals browser and telepathy to close all connections Nov 25 17:27:51 WEP *might* work. WPA won't Nov 25 17:28:19 Damn this jetlag. On third of my though processes are still in Hawaii, another third are still wandering around Chicago O'Hare, and the remaining lump is here, confused as hell. Nov 25 17:29:00 yeah I meant wpa Nov 25 17:29:20 Annoying this is that this would "just work" if Maemo5 didn't tell apps to close connections Nov 25 17:29:41 works fine with xchat that ignores those signals :) Nov 25 17:29:55 ShadowJK: It would, but then it would break on properly set up WLANs Nov 25 17:30:30 the cisco:inksys ap do Nov 25 17:31:25 esn't seem to have any inter-ap protocol support Nov 25 17:31:25 but this cheap chinese one I have does Nov 25 17:31:25 unfortunately I can't find a source for them anymore :( Nov 25 17:48:01 i really like the haptic feedback on the N8 Nov 25 17:48:14 it's not a click-vibrate thing Nov 25 17:52:21 I wish the option for it was in the right place Nov 25 17:52:34 hey are you the guy that wrote that ps3 freedom app? Nov 25 17:52:51 **option to disable Nov 25 17:52:57 here Nov 25 17:53:18 great job man I thought that was really cool even before I had my phone Nov 25 17:53:27 the app was written by me, the modules by KaKaRoTo Nov 25 17:53:41 so the app wouldn't be functional without his work :) Nov 25 17:53:55 ofc Nov 25 18:02:35 Well. Moo all. Nov 25 18:03:33 Moo to you! Nov 25 18:03:49 MooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO0000000000ooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo! Nov 25 18:07:18 hey guys :) Nov 25 18:24:16 RST38h: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB3Cp-x_bu8 Nov 25 18:26:16 ~tell RST38h about moohoho Nov 25 18:55:14 so, according to my observations and internets, python is ~60x slower than C. Nov 25 18:55:32 hmm, depends Nov 25 18:56:27 DocScrutinizer, sure, but on average ppl get 60x Nov 25 18:57:07 * slonopotamus has 80x in one particular program, for example Nov 25 18:58:30 DocScrutinizer, it can be faster is small programs where large amount of things is done using builtins (written in c, obviously) Nov 25 18:58:59 i mean, large in % Nov 25 18:59:10 Yeah stuff starts getting slow once you're doing other stuff than just connecting things together in python Nov 25 19:00:07 ShadowJK, startup is another issue. launching python program means reading several tens/hundreds of .py files Nov 25 19:00:20 Yeah Nov 25 19:00:33 python is OO and it's dynamic, so it's pretty clear what things will be slow in python and which are basically no diff to C Nov 25 19:00:51 It's somewhat amazing that MPlayer as a single 20-something megabyte executable starts almost instantly on N900 :-) Nov 25 19:00:57 DocScrutinizer, only c builtins are no diff. Nov 25 19:01:05 ShadowJK, not really Nov 25 19:02:00 ld.so has to do less work, I guess Nov 25 19:02:19 ShadowJK: starting as in "display some nice stuff to X"? Nov 25 19:02:36 Starting as in do anything at all Nov 25 19:02:38 DocScrutinizer, even trivial stuff like integer math/string operations already have big difference Nov 25 19:03:49 slonopotamus, there is a thread on tmo about optimising/speeding up python Nov 25 19:04:06 and Noobmonkey halved startup time by combination of things Nov 25 19:04:07 slonopotamus: that's because they are not trivial in python. If you're going to implement all the associated hidden runtime checks for value out of bounds, and whatnot, in C, I guess the diff gets less extreme Nov 25 19:04:17 and managed to optimise certain things Nov 25 19:04:23 lcuk, whatever you do with it, it will never be close to c Nov 25 19:04:25 its easy to have a bloated python file Nov 25 19:04:35 slonopotamus, agreed in some respects Nov 25 19:04:47 Hmm. How would one replace the Nokia image/video with something else? Nov 25 19:04:54 but for something like a database processor or something as DocScrutinizer said that is using library functions mostly Nov 25 19:04:54 out of bounds checks are hardware-accelerated in C, they're called segmentation fault. Only problem is you usually get the signal ages after the out of bounds access took place ;D Nov 25 19:04:57 it wont matter Nov 25 19:05:11 because the binding glue takes up a fraction of the actual time Nov 25 19:05:31 ShadowJK, bounds checks in c still require a function call Nov 25 19:05:51 in a tight loop in c including function jumps cause all sorts of cache misses etc Nov 25 19:06:06 * lcuk used to optimise for the 680ec20 with a 256byte cache :) Nov 25 19:06:25 ShadowJK: that's not exactly correct. adding two maxint won't cause a segfault Nov 25 19:07:05 slonopotamus, when you start doing processing in python itself it gets slow Nov 25 19:07:22 shedskin exists and afaik can produce a fairly optimal class representation from python code Nov 25 19:07:35 lcuk, that's what i said. python programs can only be fast if they're in c. Nov 25 19:07:35 for when you really need to optimise it down Nov 25 19:08:08 slonopotamus: honestly, what are we talking about? Nov 25 19:08:08 slonopotamus, thats been the same since the days of arexx Nov 25 19:08:18 i couldnt hope to process whole images using it Nov 25 19:08:28 slonopotamus: nobody thinks number crunching in python is a brilliant idea Nov 25 19:08:29 but passing the filenames/memory locations between apps Nov 25 19:08:35 * ShadowJK once processed images in shell script ;-) Nov 25 19:08:36 to have them process it is simples Nov 25 19:08:41 lol ShadowJK Nov 25 19:08:48 DocScrutinizer, i just wonder why python is used in maemo at all Nov 25 19:09:00 what's wrong with imgmagic? Nov 25 19:09:09 slonopotamus, go look in the archives for time forever Nov 25 19:09:13 shell scripts do the same thing Nov 25 19:09:36 slonopotamus: because it's easy to code, easy to maintain, and the "executables" are fairly small Nov 25 19:09:59 DocScrutinizer, speak for yourself, I have a 200kb ascii art comment header for every file Nov 25 19:10:00 :P Nov 25 19:10:02 * ShadowJK once also processed .wav in quickbasic Nov 25 19:10:04 * RST38h tends to disagree about 'easy to maintain' Nov 25 19:10:16 haha Nov 25 19:10:23 A complex program in Python is rather messy Nov 25 19:10:37 a rather complex program in ANY LANGUAGE is rather messy Nov 25 19:10:39 especially when "object oriented" fetures are used Nov 25 19:10:41 Python is expressive! :) Nov 25 19:10:43 hi , i can not find a clear solution for Error opening terminal: xterm when installing the sdk Nov 25 19:10:45 the key thing is "rather complex" Nov 25 19:10:55 I've only used python on Symbian, and that's because it was the only relatively sane thing available, that tells you how crazy it is Nov 25 19:10:58 lcuk: No, you can write relatively good code in C++ for example Nov 25 19:11:02 lcuk: (see qt) Nov 25 19:11:10 RST38h, you can write clear concise code in python too Nov 25 19:11:23 lcuk: But writing a lot of code in Python while keeping it readable is a difficult task Nov 25 19:11:26 hi Nov 25 19:11:28 not really Nov 25 19:11:31 its OO just the same Nov 25 19:11:34 RST38h: i tend to disagree Nov 25 19:11:36 thats coding style and expectations Nov 25 19:11:39 same as any project Nov 25 19:11:43 i'm looking for some extraction/compression util so that I can unzip files in my N900 Nov 25 19:11:56 blackthorne`, you tried installing unzip? Nov 25 19:12:14 the binary's called "miniunzip" Nov 25 19:12:22 I didn't find anything with that name Nov 25 19:12:26 to install, I mean Nov 25 19:12:48 http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/ Nov 25 19:12:57 zlib-bin provides it Nov 25 19:12:59 http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip-fm/ Nov 25 19:13:00 does anybody have suffer from Error opening terminal: xterm when installing the sdk ? Nov 25 19:13:05 lcuk: where to look for a few manual pages / docs / specs to understand how caller-ui is triggering a outbound call via telepathy (if that's a valid assumption at all)? Nov 25 19:13:11 oh so there's also a proper unzip for maemo eh Nov 25 19:13:14 :) Nov 25 19:13:16 joga: how can I install it? Nov 25 19:13:23 blackthorne`, with apt-get Nov 25 19:13:25 troulouliou, not sure Nov 25 19:13:27 DocScrutinizer, not sure Nov 25 19:13:48 blackthorne` or enable extras-testing and install unzip Nov 25 19:13:49 DocScrutinizer, something is triggering call-ui on its own? Nov 25 19:14:14 lcuk: sorry? Nov 25 19:14:36 you want to understand how caller-ui is triggering a call Nov 25 19:14:41 is it triggering it without your input? Nov 25 19:14:42 yes Nov 25 19:14:56 I think I need root access to install that Nov 25 19:15:04 blackthorne`, unzip is already in maemo extras Nov 25 19:15:07 no, of course not. I want to understand what's happening when I hit green button Nov 25 19:15:10 no need for anything else Nov 25 19:15:16 its likely you will already have it installed Nov 25 19:15:31 oh crap Nov 25 19:15:34 misread Nov 25 19:15:38 you will need -testing Nov 25 19:15:56 joga, you can read :P Nov 25 19:16:17 lcuk yeah I learned it when I was a kid and have been enjoying it since Nov 25 19:16:18 :) Nov 25 19:16:25 \o/ Nov 25 19:17:01 i guess i need to increase coffee intake Nov 25 19:17:13 lcuk: should I get maemo-extras from the package manager? Nov 25 19:17:58 lcuk: I want to find a 'hook' to plumb some call mangling into normal call initiation, like rejecting particular call destinations etc, based on the number dialed Nov 25 19:18:27 DocScrutinizer, did i see an app to do call blocking etc recently Nov 25 19:18:38 ie, look at how it does it Nov 25 19:18:45 heh, sure that wasn't inbound? Nov 25 19:18:54 DocScrutinizer, idk? Nov 25 19:19:13 I didn't see any outbound Nov 25 19:19:15 never needed to block outbound locations before Nov 25 19:19:24 i have self control :P Nov 25 19:19:42 you never gave your phone to your kids :-P Nov 25 19:19:48 DocScrutinizer, tablet mode Nov 25 19:19:56 not good enough Nov 25 19:19:57 complete blocking of all cellmo activities Nov 25 19:20:08 not the plan Nov 25 19:20:17 you want a kid ux Nov 25 19:20:24 yep Nov 25 19:20:26 to allow calling mummy and daddy :) Nov 25 19:20:30 yep Nov 25 19:20:36 but not the 0898 premium number they saw on tv Nov 25 19:20:43 yep Nov 25 19:21:02 perfectly reasonable Nov 25 19:21:48 so how to intercept and mangle/modify/reject a initiate-call("4711") ? Nov 25 19:21:50 i think now it would be hacks, it might be more feasible now to look towards #meego and see if anything similar is in the spec Nov 25 19:22:07 and if not work towards getting it in? Nov 25 19:22:11 * RST38h dials the mummies Nov 25 19:22:23 lol RST38h Nov 25 19:22:29 theres an scp about that :P Nov 25 19:22:36 number? =) Nov 25 19:22:46 I'm not interested in getting this nto an OS that never will come for N900 officially Nov 25 19:23:33 DocScrutinizer, so not interested in getting it into the subsystem that will be used on many devices for a foreseeable period? Nov 25 19:23:55 I'd rather hack telepathy or dbus than wait for meego to come with it for free Nov 25 19:24:45 well you may just end up having to reimplement hacks later rather than looking now and seeing if its at least considered Nov 25 19:25:18 you have said about many things regarding maemo that you would have done them differently Nov 25 19:25:19 lcuk: I'm developing for present time, for present users having actual demands. Not for a future device with a future OS that might hit the end user 2012 Nov 25 19:25:29 well, meego is being built now Nov 25 19:25:47 well, thanks for the info Nov 25 19:25:51 \o Nov 25 19:27:13 tell me how many apps for meego you plan to *sell* until may 2011 Nov 25 19:27:20 lcuk: we don't know much about meego handset, so yea - DocScrutinizer is right - better hack on maemo 5 stuff right now and care about meego when there is something to see :p Nov 25 19:27:29 +h Nov 25 19:28:02 thp: +1 Nov 25 19:28:18 thp: Even the UI toolkit is mostly in limbo right now Nov 25 19:28:19 especially for low-level stuff.. seems like the app story is finally clearing with qml (although there i'm sorely missing qt components..) Nov 25 19:28:45 thp: well, it will only become clear when they standardize on the basic components Nov 25 19:29:21 yes, which will hopefully come in the form of cross-platform, reusable qt components for qml Nov 25 19:29:52 which will not be compatible with the traditional qwidget based widgets Nov 25 19:30:08 a well as meegotouch widgets based on the canvas Nov 25 19:30:32 anybody else here able to share some pointers to telepathy and how maemo(!) call-ui initiates a call? Nov 25 19:31:06 qml is nicer for rich interfaces than qwidget. and it has states and transitions. and javascript ;) Nov 25 19:31:18 s/rich/touch/ Nov 25 19:31:19 thp meant: qml is nicer for touch interfaces than qwidget. and it has states and transitions. and javascript ;) Nov 25 19:32:30 DocScrutinizer: maybe dbus-monitor + initiating a call manually gives some insight there? Nov 25 19:32:46 thp: ...and now, once we have loaded all this shit onboard, let us try taking offf... Nov 25 19:32:47 you bet that's what I did some 15min ago Nov 25 19:32:49 hey guys quick question, what is the full name for the N900 web browser? Nov 25 19:33:11 DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS Nov 25 19:33:20 microb bash1 Nov 25 19:33:33 RST38h: ;) Nov 25 19:33:34 where i can ask about xchat irc client on maemo 5? Nov 25 19:33:51 BigRichie: Here works. Nov 25 19:33:51 don't ask where to ask to ask, just ask Nov 25 19:33:54 thp: this tells how to initiate a call, but it doesn't shed a light on how call-ui does it Nov 25 19:33:58 * SpeedEvil1 is logged in using xchat. Nov 25 19:33:59 ok ty Nov 25 19:34:56 DocScrutinizer: sorry, don't know any specifics about that :) but be sure to add any info you can find to the wiki =) Nov 25 19:35:49 tmobile (usa) doesnt allow ident port so I'm unable to connect to irc.freenode.net using xchat irc on maemo5 Nov 25 19:35:56 thp: from dbus-monitor I gather telepathy itself is emitting a signal when it received a request to establish a call. I don't see this request from call-ui to telepathy on dbus though Nov 25 19:36:59 DocScrutinizer: MCE has sig_call_state_ind - maybe that's what you are looking for? Nov 25 19:37:03 i understand there is a python script to enable sasl for xchat, but I'm unable to load it in maemo5 Nov 25 19:37:12 thp: that's why I asked lcuk (a collabora employee and so supposed to maybe know a bit more about telepathy (c) collabora http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/) Nov 25 19:39:23 Hi Nov 25 19:39:44 DocScrutinizer, if every person in every company had to know everything the world would be a cool place Nov 25 19:40:14 BigRichie: what about it? Nov 25 19:41:10 i want to change the color of text... Nov 25 19:41:27 notice command text... Nov 25 19:42:02 BigRichie: the one in xterm? top bar --> settings Nov 25 19:42:19 i dont know which one it is in the preferences->colors Nov 25 19:42:24 lcuk: that's why I used the terms "maybe" and "a bit". Any pointer (except to meego and next years' revolutionary new things for users) whould have been appreciated Nov 25 19:43:28 users are asking me for an according app for maemo on N900, not for meego on N9 Nov 25 19:43:57 and no, I'm not doing this for the mere fun of it Nov 25 19:44:32 DocScrutinizer51: users are asking you for what app? Nov 25 19:45:33 notice text? Nov 25 19:46:13 yea... when u use notice command for me can barely see the text Nov 25 19:46:14 X Terminal --> Font (leftone changes foreground, right one background) Nov 25 19:46:49 i can i ment Nov 25 19:47:28 bye Nov 25 19:47:31 N900 does have support to QtMultimediaKit 1.1 ?? Nov 25 19:48:31 there is mIRC colors numbered 1-15 and local colors numbered 16-31... Nov 25 19:48:47 using xchat irc client Nov 25 19:49:57 i couldnt find anything from web for maemo 5 os xchat app... only pc os's Nov 25 19:49:59 ahhhh.... oh, that one puzzled me as well previously... i changed to irssi and it works like a charm Nov 25 19:50:12 bu it should work the same as on pc Nov 25 19:50:21 mhh... Nov 25 19:50:21 it is a port, hence it should be having the same layout Nov 25 19:50:34 mhh Nov 25 19:51:30 there is guides to change themes... like u know its abit different looking on maemo then on pc Nov 25 19:51:35 BigRichie: you could try Communi for an IRC client, but it is not yet fully complete for Maemo 5 Nov 25 19:51:49 that text i can barely see... Nov 25 19:52:07 lcuk: see, in meego TSG et al there seems little interest in my suggestions, and though it might be fun to help building a better meego and avoiding there all the shortcommings we see in maemo, it's still a rather starving art to engage there. Nov 25 19:52:22 and i would like to change the color of it... :/ Nov 25 19:57:38 well DocScrutinizer best I can suggest is ask on the ML since its seemingly not a standard operation Nov 25 19:57:49 thanks Nov 25 20:08:23 hello RevdKathy Nov 25 20:08:42 Hello Venemo Nov 25 20:08:45 I read your blog yesterday about the MeeGo stuff Nov 25 20:08:47 How are you? Nov 25 20:08:53 Ahh :) Nov 25 20:09:08 well, thanks for asking :) Nov 25 20:09:13 how are you? Nov 25 20:09:46 Not bad, thanks. Tough day at work, but manageable. And I finished my chores - came to play on IRC and it's quiet here Nov 25 20:10:22 Ssh, we're sleeping. Nov 25 20:10:23 Nipping afk to put the rubbish out - brb Nov 25 20:10:27 Also: Thanksgiving Nov 25 20:10:47 Sorry GAN900 didn't mean to disturb you from your turkey-induced somulence Nov 25 20:11:53 RevdKathy: how was the the MeeGo conference? Nov 25 20:13:39 Venemo: amazing, brilliant, terrific... quite beyond description Nov 25 20:14:12 RevdKathy, is there any documentation/scripts online available? Nov 25 20:14:31 peb_ about what? Nov 25 20:14:49 RevdKathy, the conference. Normally they have stuff online .. Nov 25 20:15:54 The blogs are being co-ordinated here: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010#Conference_Wrap-up Nov 25 20:16:10 I think the various talks and slides are going up slowly Nov 25 20:16:46 RevdKathy: I wish I could go, but I couldn't Nov 25 20:17:04 Shame. It was amazing Nov 25 20:17:09 RevdKathy: so I'm a bit envious about the people who could :) Nov 25 20:17:16 peb_ : vids here: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/session-videos Nov 25 20:17:36 I can understand that Venemo. I was really, really lucky Nov 25 20:18:43 yeah :) Nov 25 20:19:07 I don't deserve to be so lucky. I had the best time. Nov 25 20:19:24 why not? Nov 25 20:19:44 sure you deserved it :) Nov 25 20:19:50 Well, I don't develop or anything. Just an ordinary bear, really Nov 25 20:20:06 I spent most of the time at the help-desk Nov 25 20:20:24 what's wrong with that? Nov 25 20:20:50 RevdKathy, thanks for the link -- also some kind of help and well worth for you beeing there ... Nov 25 20:20:55 I feel I ought to do more - but I'm a bit old for learning to code now! Nov 25 20:21:14 Thanks peb_ Nov 25 20:21:22 RevdKathy: never old enuff Nov 25 20:22:04 kerio: you think I could argue I'm too young to learn code? At twice the age of mst devs? Nov 25 20:22:24 "i'm too old" is just an excuse Nov 25 20:22:29 But Conference was just amazing Nov 25 20:22:36 RevdKathy: http://bit.ly/40CBHF READ THIS Nov 25 20:22:46 it could be your last chance! Nov 25 20:22:47 kerio: that's true. I think to be honest I don't have time or quite know where to start. Nov 25 20:22:53 RevdKathy: well I met people who are older than you and are still developers Nov 25 20:22:55 start with that! Nov 25 20:23:39 kerio: thank you! That's brilliant. It will give me somewhere to start. Nov 25 20:23:42 Where are the slides, http://conference2010.meego.com/session/meego-n900-past-present-and-future ? Nov 25 20:23:46 RevdKathy: my colleague at my current job is a 63-year-old man whose hobby is running marathon, and longer distances Nov 25 20:24:29 RevdKathy: age is no excuse for not learning new things :) Nov 25 20:24:36 Venemo: people have strange hobbies. There's a woman in my dance class in her 60s with two artificial knees and a spinal injury Nov 25 20:24:56 can we run maemo on samsung 'bada' linux phones? Nov 25 20:25:09 Venemo: I agree with that. Just not sure code is the right thing for me. I finished my Masters this year, and was taking a year out before debating a doctorate ;) Nov 25 20:25:46 great, use that year to learn some coding Nov 25 20:25:53 'bada' is not really real linux, acccording to raster Nov 25 20:26:01 I will - at least I will get some idea of it. Nov 25 20:26:17 it really helps a lot to decompose problems in smaller and smaller problems Nov 25 20:26:53 Part of my problem with learning code is that I'm the sort of learner who likes a teacher. And I couldn't find a course in the county. Nov 25 20:26:56 RevdKathy: well... coding is not the right thing for me either, but it is a nice hobby :) Nov 25 20:27:26 venemo: the important thing is that you enjoy it. Nov 25 20:27:27 Kathy: No substitute for US community colleges in the US? Nov 25 20:27:32 in the UK, sorry Nov 25 20:28:09 RST38h: I looked at all the community colleges and there was nothing on computing other than the basic certificates in 'how to operate windoze' Nov 25 20:28:21 It was rather depressing Nov 25 20:28:35 Hiya NooBmonk3y! Nov 25 20:28:40 loli turn up and kathy says it's depressing. lol! Nov 25 20:28:42 eveeeening Nov 25 20:28:47 Kathy: this world is going back to the dark ages Nov 25 20:28:56 * NooBmonk3y waves at alls! Nov 25 20:29:04 RST38h I'm not sure Cornwall ever left! Nov 25 20:29:05 Which is good for my job security, actually. Nov 25 20:29:25 i just spent 2.5 hours battling tescos, and managed to get 14 full bags up 2 flights of stairs in 1 go without braking one! yay! .... arms are bugegred! Nov 25 20:29:39 Our NHS It department don't actually know how to do anything with a computer other than reformat it. Nov 25 20:29:48 Kathy - tell me about it! Nov 25 20:30:13 Lisa logged a job saying she couldnt send emails on her blackberry, 45 mins later, no response, she tweeted me, resolved in 5 mins lol Nov 25 20:30:14 Well, YOUR NHS It department have you, so clearly they're more knowledgeable! Nov 25 20:30:20 RevdKathy: well if you like, I can help you Nov 25 20:30:23 Kathy, they dont ;) Nov 25 20:30:26 i work for the customer ;) Nov 25 20:30:35 Thanks Venemo! If I get stuck, I'll be in touch. :) Nov 25 20:31:15 Kathy, hows the ideapad? Nov 25 20:31:35 I had a PC with a dire case of pop-ups. The guy for IT came, and having established I'd run a couple of spyware removers and a couple of virus checkers said it would have to be reformatted. :( Nov 25 20:31:43 lol! Nov 25 20:31:55 Which is a sensible decision Nov 25 20:31:56 hi i m actually installing the sdk , could anybody explain me the basic steps to install cmake on both ARM and X86 scratchbox install Nov 25 20:31:57 nuke it from orbit etc pp Nov 25 20:32:06 after the installation Nov 25 20:32:07 * MohammadAG stabs segfaults Nov 25 20:32:20 Because using HijackThis correctly requires expertise most IT people do not have Nov 25 20:32:23 The idea-pad is lovely. Only 2 things I'd like it to have - and only one of those is critical Nov 25 20:33:09 :P Nov 25 20:33:14 I guess I expect someone employed to maintain the IT to know more about it than I do. Nov 25 20:33:26 well they do Nov 25 20:33:36 Same as I expect my Doctor to know more than I do :p Nov 25 20:33:38 just not enough to remove a virus Nov 25 20:33:43 RevdKathy: do you have pics? Nov 25 20:33:58 I posted a few on my scrap book, and there were some in my blog post Nov 25 20:34:19 But I didn't take many pics - and when I got home I found they were mostly of pints of Guinness... Nov 25 20:34:46 RevdKathy: well I didn't see any in the blog Nov 25 20:35:26 Go through the blog on the conference and click the links (I am too mean to pay for the LJ that allows embedding) Nov 25 20:35:36 and there's a couple of my scrapbook Nov 25 20:36:07 http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1646518299/just-testing-the-resizing-on-the-gimp-if-this Nov 25 20:36:27 RevdKathy: maybe not talking about the same blog entry? I haven't found links here :( http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/62299.html Nov 25 20:37:10 Venemo: http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/61968.html Nov 25 20:37:27 http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1598577599/this-is-lcuk-who-doesnt-drink-guinness-unless Nov 25 20:37:48 http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1590571557/the-bear-working-in-x-terminal-ive-crashed-meego Nov 25 20:38:00 OMFG PURPLE Nov 25 20:38:00 oi! i only picked that up to take a photo Nov 25 20:38:05 i got my own a minute later Nov 25 20:38:14 http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1576025944/the-first-of-the-conference Nov 25 20:38:32 i didn't know tech conferences were beer-based Nov 25 20:38:45 lcuk: you picked it up and took a bloody great swig out of it! Nov 25 20:38:53 kerio, the meegoconf ran on guinness Nov 25 20:39:03 lcuk: I swear you only did it to keep me from drinking too much Nov 25 20:39:14 so that's why they kept pulseaudio! Nov 25 20:39:24 what good it did, you still got whisked away into the moshpit :P Nov 25 20:39:30 RevdKathy, so this is the thing everyone's been talkin about? http://www.revdkathy.co.uk/meegoconf/08.jpg Nov 25 20:40:01 Venemo: yes - that's the ideapad Nov 25 20:40:03 cool tablet, windows logo ruins it :P Nov 25 20:40:12 omg that trackpad looks awful Nov 25 20:40:45 I should have sat the bear over the windows logo! Nov 25 20:41:01 The trackpad has a very odd texture - I find it sets my teeth on edge Nov 25 20:41:14 So I have a pink mini-mouse attached instead Nov 25 20:41:36 heh Nov 25 20:41:39 who's the guy in the screen's reflection, lcuk? Nov 25 20:41:50 lcuk: i did not 'get whisked away' - I went of my own accord! Nov 25 20:42:17 MohammadAG, thats texrat i believe Nov 25 20:42:22 RevdKathy, lol Nov 25 20:42:23 No, that's not lcuk. Could possibly be texrat Nov 25 20:42:41 Hard to be sure from that angle Nov 25 20:43:05 you have to go to the x-series to get an anti-glare display and a trackpoint Nov 25 20:43:33 but it's great having a device just for meego Nov 25 20:44:13 RevdKathy / lcuk - you guys see an accelerated meego running in a vm yet? Nov 25 20:44:36 (that is texrat in the reflection) Nov 25 20:45:38 pupnik: I haven't done anything clever with it. Just set it up and used it as an end-user. Several things were not easy for an ordinary user to do (so not ready for general release yet) Nov 25 20:45:58 But bar a few bugs, i find it pretty stable Nov 25 20:47:16 RevdKathy: well not all of us are ready to buy a seperate device for it Nov 25 20:47:26 RevdCathy, can you get Guinness in a plastic pint? That seems really wrong to me. Nov 25 20:47:34 No, that's fair enough. I wouldn't have bought one Nov 25 20:47:45 inz yes, and it was very wrong. Nov 25 20:47:51 lol Nov 25 20:48:03 btw did the guinness taste different/better in dublin? Nov 25 20:48:11 yeah better Nov 25 20:48:13 still like crap Nov 25 20:48:23 i don't like that kind of beer Nov 25 20:48:28 how about someone's opinion who likes guinness? :) Nov 25 20:48:34 * kerio doesn't drink Nov 25 20:48:44 * inz neither Nov 25 20:48:51 * alterego would really like it if one of those ir apps could perform a semi auto-matic binary search. Nov 25 20:49:34 pupnik, better than in the US. Nov 25 20:49:42 Think I might work on it myself post Columbus v1 Nov 25 20:49:58 The Bud in the hacker lounge was a nice taste of home, though. *g* Nov 25 20:50:33 I thought it was better than Guinness at home, yes Nov 25 20:50:49 Though it's hard to be objective when you are in such excellent company Nov 25 20:50:58 and lcuk drinks half your pint in one swig Nov 25 20:51:02 the biggest guinness difference is from the tap vs from can/bottle Nov 25 20:52:38 GAN900 Ugh. Yuckies. Nov 25 20:54:09 "MeeGo simulator and emulator solve the OpenGL performance problem by making OpenGL rendered by GPU in host off-screen buffer..." http://conference2010.meego.com/session/opengl-acceleration-meego-simulator-and-emulator Nov 25 20:54:22 finally a meeGo i can run in a VM? Nov 25 20:54:41 hey, can anyone shed some light on python packaging? what's up with postinst scripts that rm -rf dirs in /usr/lib/python*/site-packages with comments that say it's a "fix for old packages not managing pyc files"? Nov 25 20:55:25 poutsi: that sounds like an optification step Nov 25 20:55:48 possibly, I just noticed it since it breaks mercurial Nov 25 20:56:13 ie. mercurial-common first installs its .py files there, then the postinst of mercurial rm -rf's them Nov 25 20:56:27 hahaha Nov 25 20:57:22 I'm just curious about what a package "managing it's pyc files" means Nov 25 21:00:06 .pyc files are generated by the Python interpreter for modules imported by scripts, they're the compiled modules in bytecode format. Nov 25 21:00:29 * RST38h looking for something new and exciting Nov 25 21:00:39 alterego, I know that Nov 25 21:00:59 what I don't understand it is how it relates to .deb packages Nov 25 21:01:20 So when a package is installed, it doesn't know about .pyc files, by defauly, because they're weren't in the package, they were generated after the fact. Nov 25 21:01:46 wow, that was an awful sentence. Nov 25 21:03:04 The .pyc files aren't in the deb, so apt/dpkg doesn't know about them. therefore can't manage them, it's up to the package maintainer to remove .pyc files and any other generated files postrm. Nov 25 21:03:30 yeah, that I'd understand, but this is in the postinst script, not postrm :) Nov 25 21:03:33 How is that not blatantly obvious? Nov 25 21:04:07 Well, that's someone probably trying to fix an issue with a packagde they crewed up the first time? Nov 25 21:04:16 screwed ... Nov 25 21:04:33 RevdKathy, 16 Nov 25 21:04:56 Bah - damned thing locked up on me and I ended up losing a half-filed bug Nov 25 21:04:59 lcuk: do you wanna be one of my beta testers next week? Nov 25 21:05:03 might be, and it's obviously a bug and I already filed it as such :) Nov 25 21:05:24 No point in filing a bug against an old package. Nov 25 21:05:25 it's just that it seems like such a pattern and I'm trying to nail down the logic Nov 25 21:05:38 Who knows :) Nov 25 21:07:48 RST38h: a kevlar space elevator to the moon would be exciting Nov 25 21:09:28 pupnik: Nah, the Moon is just a huge dusty marble =) Nov 25 21:13:53 does anyone know a way around the problem with n810 OS2008 file manager where "shared folders" sometimes appears and sometimes doesn't. Is there any way to force a scan of network shares? Nov 25 21:14:22 it's upnp shit Nov 25 21:14:27 and upnp is shit by design Nov 25 21:15:20 It's not shit, just overly complicated. Nov 25 21:15:52 As much as I really, don't want to have this discussion again. ^_^ Nov 25 21:16:15 it seems that once I open the file manager and network shares do not show up, they never will until I reboot the device, connect to the network, wait, then try again Nov 25 21:16:49 Strange, I've never had a problem with it though I only use it when I'm at my parents' ... Nov 25 21:17:40 I have read online about other people having similar problems and that it is hit or miss. I haven't found a way to force a scan for network shares to circumvent the problem Nov 25 21:18:43 hrm, well, it all goes through gupnp, so maybe look for ways to coerse that? Nov 25 21:20:09 thanks much, that's a start :) Nov 25 21:21:40 I did do a bit of work with gupnp a while back, but it's a rather distant memory. Nov 25 21:23:06 is the n900 worth getting as a standalone, non-phone device over the n810? Nov 25 21:23:17 * alterego contemplates adding a animation toggle option to conserve cpu .. Nov 25 21:24:47 moin Nov 25 21:25:11 aloha Nov 25 21:26:04 alterego, your app uses the GPS, I wouldn't be worrying about the CPU being the main thing that rapes the battery ;) Nov 25 21:28:31 moin alterego Nov 25 21:28:42 http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter Standing Up for your Rights. How to pass TSA without suffereing sexual assault or Illegal search. Nov 25 21:33:34 goodnight all Nov 25 21:48:17 * mst fails to figure out which repository to enable to get gcc Nov 25 21:55:58 MohammadAG: that depends how you use it, I got 3 hours of logs with only one level drop on the battery indicator, and I was listening to m00sics. Nov 25 21:56:29 heh Nov 25 21:56:34 brb, hot swapping battery Nov 25 21:56:54 which is fine, for data logging, but I want it to be usable for hiking as a handheld gps, which means it needs to have a fairly good usability statistic :P Nov 25 22:00:17 RST38h: zooming font size in xchat would be exciting Nov 25 22:00:19 i'm logging 24/7 on mains Nov 25 22:01:42 RST38h: making context menus work on chan treview is probably less exciting but still worth a look Nov 25 22:01:53 tree-view* Nov 25 22:02:10 hmm? Nov 25 22:02:21 they work for me Nov 25 22:02:37 in tree-view mode for chan tabs? Nov 25 22:03:29 on a second look, they don't o_O Nov 25 22:03:33 maybe they got fixed during last 5 months, never checked it again Nov 25 22:04:18 I wonder if it's because it's a custom widget Nov 25 22:04:26 mhm Nov 25 22:05:52 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLIR-I5-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-Infrared-Imager-853540-/380288572065?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item588af71aa1 Nov 25 22:05:57 why this stuff is so expensive Nov 25 22:05:58 and for sure a xchat with python scripting support would excite me :-) Nov 25 22:06:51 I guess we could get a version with python support and dependencies, as alternative to standard pkg Nov 25 22:07:32 let's call it... errr, xchat-python ? Nov 25 22:08:55 jacekowski: maybe because the sensors are really expensive? Nov 25 22:09:37 DocScrutinizer: that technlogy was known 10 years ago Nov 25 22:09:43 and prices went down only by couple % Nov 25 22:09:56 mhm Nov 25 22:10:35 no moore's shrinking, no increasing production numbers on the sensor Nov 25 22:11:25 yeah, no research so that cost is gone Nov 25 22:12:06 i would buy it Nov 25 22:12:07 CRT tubes and 1/4" CCD sensors and resistors also didn't significantly drop in price Nov 25 22:12:08 for half price Nov 25 22:12:15 thermal sensors need to be cooled, otherwise they'll see their own thermal glow Nov 25 22:12:15 Anyone else seeing the skype client stopped working? It thinks it is logged in, but I cannot place calls and buddies are not shown as logged in when they actually are. Nov 25 22:12:26 Choom: not anymore Nov 25 22:12:31 there's nothing to optimize, on some devices Nov 25 22:12:42 Choom: uncooled microbolometers were invented over 10 years ago Nov 25 22:12:59 that doesn't make a lot of sense Nov 25 22:13:12 that's called PIR Nov 25 22:13:24 Choom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbolometer Nov 25 22:13:33 if the sensor is at room temperature and you're trying to see something coolder than that it won't work Nov 25 22:13:57 Choom: well, it does Nov 25 22:14:10 Choom: you can compensate for that Nov 25 22:14:33 everything that's warmer than absolute 0 will radiate Nov 25 22:14:41 and heat up sensor Nov 25 22:14:44 more or less Nov 25 22:15:00 it's energy Nov 25 22:17:26 oO Nov 25 22:17:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectricity Nov 25 22:17:43 i just read that fluke and tektronix are one and same company pretty much Nov 25 22:18:20 OK Nov 25 22:36:24 Choom: when you're sitting in a room with 22°C air temperature and same temperature walls, and another time same room same air but walls have -50°C... I bet you'd notice, though you are evidently higer temperature than the walls in both cases Nov 25 22:38:23 otherwise those gold/silver plastic film recue blankets wouldn't make much sense Nov 25 22:38:38 rescue* Nov 25 22:45:53 isn't that about heat radiation? Nov 25 22:46:20 thats what ir is... Nov 25 22:48:03 DocScrutinizer: except that the survival blankets barely work through radiation -- their greatest effectiveness comes from their windproof and waterproof characteristics Nov 25 22:58:07 something funny about desining voice recognition interfaces: Nov 25 22:58:11 http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=455559633104 Nov 25 22:59:06 meh, requires a facebook account Nov 25 22:59:13 Choom: it does? screw it :-/ Nov 25 22:59:28 I've been somewhat interested in that subject though Nov 25 23:00:02 Choom: shows in a sarcastic and ironic way how the lack of thought about scottish and irish accents leaves 2 bloaks stuck in en elevator Nov 25 23:00:18 LOL Nov 25 23:00:54 Choom: I wish you could watch it Nov 25 23:00:54 blokes** Nov 25 23:09:53 not really a joke. A friend of mine seen some Universitary dudes presenting their speech recog system on a convention. When somebody with a easern german accent came along and tested it, it segfaulted (aka BSOD'ed) Nov 25 23:12:21 I can barely wait for the speech crackers of the future Nov 25 23:12:36 wb javispedro Nov 25 23:13:13 hey pupnik Nov 25 23:14:59 any interest in snes9x4p? Nov 25 23:15:34 here's the scalers http://pastebin.com/1swmb0gp http://pastebin.com/TpgbVf1W Nov 25 23:16:00 don't understand much of what's going on though Nov 25 23:16:10 so far not really interested Nov 25 23:16:21 mhm Nov 25 23:16:34 anybody else interested in SNES emu, here's a nice vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiTD9EMxjMI Nov 25 23:17:23 I mean I don't see what's new about it Nov 25 23:18:05 LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy Nov 25 23:18:47 hey javispedro Nov 25 23:20:13 hi sivang Nov 25 23:20:30 oh awesome, Ian was working on the meego deferred gl Nov 25 23:21:11 why? Nov 25 23:21:59 I mean, what do you wanto to get from that? :) Nov 25 23:23:12 i want to run in vmware or virtualbox javispedro Nov 25 23:23:46 oh Nov 25 23:23:53 http://conference2010.meego.com/session/opengl-acceleration-meego-simulator-and-emulator Nov 25 23:24:07 but that has nothing to do with deferred gl? Nov 25 23:24:20 well, i think it does Nov 25 23:24:22 not sure Nov 25 23:24:52 well Nov 25 23:25:04 I think a vmware drm was in progress Nov 25 23:26:04 http://www.mail-archive.com/dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg45658.html -- this says it's already on staging Nov 25 23:26:14 so it might very well be a matter of just rebuilding the kernel Nov 25 23:27:42 javispedro: what's vmware drm? Nov 25 23:27:44 gnite everyone Nov 25 23:28:16 night MohammadAG Nov 25 23:28:17 gnite MohammadAG Nov 25 23:28:44 sivang: a direct rendering manager -- basically the "new"-style GPU drivers Nov 25 23:28:50 ty javispedro Nov 25 23:29:31 javispedro: I see, what the difference to "old" style ones then? Nov 25 23:31:40 sivang: a bit long to explain atm Nov 25 23:31:49 javispedro: ok, never mind :) Nov 26 00:05:50 Hi, im on n900 and ovi store is not working. btw just reflashed pr1.3 Nov 26 00:06:23 it says to update my phone? Nov 26 00:09:09 Pauly: perhaps you have found a bug Nov 26 00:13:53 want me take a screenshot? Nov 26 00:14:48 but the title of the page says ovi store coming soon. Nov 26 00:15:11 double check your firmware version Nov 26 00:15:20 @ settings @ about your device Nov 26 00:16:54 20.2010.36-2.002 Nov 26 00:17:07 i know its pr1.3 Nov 26 00:17:15 yeah Nov 26 00:17:20 it is Nov 26 00:17:41 ovi store work with yours? Nov 26 00:19:25 dunno, that icon has disappeared from my menu for some time Nov 26 00:19:30 haven't cared Nov 26 00:19:53 should be a browserf bookmark Nov 26 00:20:21 ah, there Nov 26 00:20:32 hm... Nov 26 00:20:40 yep, working here Nov 26 00:21:02 uh oh maybe my phone is broke Nov 26 00:25:31 Pauly, did it turn into a paper weight? Nov 26 00:25:57 no i am currently on it Nov 26 00:26:23 im on the webchat on freenode on n900 Nov 26 00:26:41 ah Nov 26 00:28:14 should i restart it? Nov 26 00:28:28 but that would kill my battery Nov 26 00:32:37 paperweight app now on extra-devel? Nov 26 00:33:00 yeah, for 0.99$ Nov 26 00:33:15 uninstaller: 199$ Nov 26 00:33:24 lool Nov 26 00:34:32 I wonder how long that would survive on OVI, and how many sales actually Nov 26 02:30:58 hm, frozen planet. That'd suggest the answer to my previous question is "rather long, 0" Nov 26 02:32:20 oops, if I tried to speak what I write I would hav noticed nobody ever says " That'd suggest " :-P Nov 26 02:33:16 "That suggests" is more idiomatic, but "That'd suggest" is not terrible. Nov 26 02:44:41 try to speak it loud! Don't come and ask how to fix your tongue after that :-P Nov 26 02:45:54 feels like a mix of australian bushman and arab Nov 26 02:47:47 can i ask if updating n900 to pr1.3 will cause it to lose all data? Nov 26 02:48:15 It poses no problem for my tongue. Nov 26 02:52:05 Ryuodjin: usually no data is lost when updating by OTA/SSU. Nevertheless a backup by using the backup app is strongly recommended. Also best this backup is stored to a uSD card rather than internal eMMC Nov 26 02:57:10 Hello Nov 26 02:57:20 I want to convert a mkv to watch on the N900 Nov 26 02:57:48 what would be a reasonable bitrate? THe wiki seems to suggest 300 at a scale of 352:208 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 26 02:59:58 2010