**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 26 02:59:58 2010
Nov 26 03:11:04 <ShadowJK> h264 baseline, 800x480.. dunno bitrate, 2M perhaps?
Nov 26 03:12:15 <pyther> ShadowJK: ok cool, I actually found a handbrake file that should give me h264 baseline, so I'm trynig that
Nov 26 03:12:43 <nox-> hm if n900 would be `fast enough' for h264 why isnt fennec's html5 webm stuff watchable?
Nov 26 03:13:47 <SpeedEvil> There is hardware accel
Nov 26 03:14:06 <DocScrutinizer> maybe because fennec doesn't have DSP accelerated H.264?
Nov 26 03:14:20 <nox-> ah hm
Nov 26 03:15:14 <ShadowJK> Also if it wants to blend stuff ontop of the video, the CPU requirements go up dramatically :)
Nov 26 03:18:29 <DocScrutinizer> if it doesn't exploit the hardware multilayered video buffering that obviously is used in mediaplayer, then yes, this would kill much stronger CPUs
Nov 26 03:19:55 <ShadowJK> The "multilayered" stuff is more like two independent displays, and the video shines through a specific shade of black drawn on the usual display
Nov 26 03:20:55 <ShadowJK> Flash wants to do alphablending, in rgb, ontop of the video, so even if the decode was hw accelerated, pulling the decoded picture back into the CPU and converting it to RGB is already probably using more CPU than playing it with the media player does in the first place :-)
Nov 26 03:21:02 <DocScrutinizer> that's what I meant, yes
Nov 26 03:22:02 <ShadowJK> nvidia on x86 with the vdpau stuff has nice way to deal with that for subtitles and such
Nov 26 04:08:08 <DocScrutinizer> I'm sad I missed to start a N900 marathon with IRC on 8 chan over 3G, some 6h ago. Probably I could have reached a new record for battery live, given the fact the internets seem to have died. Solar activity?
Nov 26 04:10:04 <DocScrutinizer> SNOW :-(((
Nov 26 04:10:54 <DocScrutinizer> ok, the internets not dead, just frozen
Nov 26 04:11:08 <DocScrutinizer> ~howl
Nov 26 04:11:08 <infobot> AROOOOOOOO!
Nov 26 04:11:42 <Dante_J> not frozen in Brisbane, Australia
Nov 26 04:12:58 <DocScrutinizer> meh, you're upside down. Take care you're not falling off the ball
Nov 26 04:13:24 <Dante_J> enjoy the cold :p
Nov 26 04:13:33 <DocScrutinizer> :-S
Nov 26 04:14:15 <pupnik> marp
Nov 26 05:22:07 <Pauly> hi
Nov 26 05:22:42 <Pauly> does any twitter app for n900 have scrollable homescreen widget?
Nov 26 05:22:49 <Pauly> that yous know of
Nov 26 05:22:57 <Pauly> thank you
Nov 26 05:23:42 <Pauly> oh btw i fixed my ovi store problem it was because of hide user agent
Nov 26 05:28:32 <pupnik> nice Pauly
Nov 26 06:57:45 <ddhananj> i m getting com.nokia.package_manager.Error.OperationFailed while installing a package
Nov 26 06:57:48 <ddhananj> any help?
Nov 26 07:01:06 <psycho_oreos> message not verbose enough
Nov 26 07:02:04 <psycho_oreos> maybe try installing by hand (apt-get) and see if there's any issues with installation, if not, its an issue with HAM then I suppose
Nov 26 07:11:42 <slonopotamus> random observation: passing --fast to flex produces parser that is ~10% faster
Nov 26 07:12:19 <RST38h> slono: the main trouble is yacc/bison anyway
Nov 26 07:15:04 <slonopotamus_> meh.
Nov 26 07:15:05 <slonopotamus_> RST38h: what trouble?
Nov 26 07:15:49 <RST38h> slono: performance, weird behavior (usually traceable to something you have done wrong though)
Nov 26 07:18:00 <slonopotamus_> Season significantly affects bison performance with winter feed intake and gain lower than the other three season
Nov 26 07:18:20 <slonopotamus_> :D from "bison performance" google results
Nov 26 07:18:22 <mece> slonopotamus_, good to know.
Nov 26 07:18:33 <RST38h> ehhehe
Nov 26 07:18:52 <mece> I'll stock up on high energy food for my bisons
Nov 26 07:18:56 <mece> erm bison
Nov 26 07:20:09 <slonopotamus_> RST38h: well, i'll rephrase. adding --fast gives 10% performance gain to my flex+bison parsing thingie
Nov 26 07:20:24 <RST38h> aha
Nov 26 07:20:29 <slonopotamus_> so raw flex gain might be even bigger
Nov 26 07:20:36 * RST38h checks what the magicaloption actually does
Nov 26 07:21:36 <RST38h> ah, ok, it does not compress parsing tables then
Nov 26 07:22:07 <slonopotamus_> yep, whole flex file grew from 70 to 100kb.
Nov 26 07:25:42 <slonopotamus_> RST38h: actually, after some tests, real gain comes from the fact that it uses read instead of fread
Nov 26 07:26:42 * RST38h involuntarily rotfls
Nov 26 07:28:55 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: HIIIIILFE!
Nov 26 07:33:02 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: wanna rotfl? --> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=883071&postcount=441 ff ff ff
Nov 26 07:33:13 * DocScrutinizer headdesks
Nov 26 07:34:21 <mece> DocScrutinizer, aaahah, I LOL'd
Nov 26 07:35:39 <MohammadAG> please take a stone LOL
Nov 26 07:38:17 <RST38h> Doc: This one wouldn't pass the Turing test, for sure.
Nov 26 07:39:26 <MohammadAG> why does microB suck in terms of browserd reloading
Nov 26 07:39:45 <MohammadAG> if browserd is restarted, it just sits there
Nov 26 07:52:14 <khertan_> Morning
Nov 26 07:59:05 <yacc> RST38h, beg pardon, I'm no problem :-P
Nov 26 07:59:36 <yacc> Anyone got an idea how much traffic skype might be producing?
Nov 26 08:00:11 <Surfa> depends
Nov 26 08:00:21 <Surfa> typically not much
Nov 26 08:02:03 <DocScrutinizer51> haha
Nov 26 08:08:17 <CableTwitch> Morning :O)
Nov 26 08:11:44 <Termana> good morning
Nov 26 08:34:31 <crashanddie> sup #maemo
Nov 26 08:37:03 <MohammadAG> morning crashanddie
Nov 26 08:42:00 <psycho_oreos> hi crashanddie
Nov 26 08:42:06 <Pillum> does psfreedom work with powerkernelv46?
Nov 26 08:42:26 <Pillum> heard, it isnt working because of usb host mode
Nov 26 08:42:35 <khertan_> Morning crashanddie
Nov 26 08:43:48 * khertan_ is really surprize by his old amd64 3200+ which is currently oc at 3.2Ghz : with only aircooling 55°C ... really good
Nov 26 08:45:09 <CableTwitch> What heatsink, stock?
Nov 26 08:46:31 <Pillum> MohammadAG: ?
Nov 26 08:54:46 <MohammadAG> does fcam work with stock 1.3 kernel?
Nov 26 08:56:33 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 26 08:57:08 <Pillum> MohammadAG: yes it does
Nov 26 08:57:33 <MohammadAG> Pillum, so the problem's with kernel-power, ty
Nov 26 08:57:37 * MohammadAG looks at sources
Nov 26 08:57:45 <psycho_oreos> there's a huge thread for it MohammadAG
Nov 26 08:57:50 <psycho_oreos> hang on lemme find it
Nov 26 08:58:56 <psycho_oreos> MohammadAG, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58899&page=4
Nov 26 09:07:24 <sjk> how would i edit maemos dictionary (used when texting etc)? there are  a couple of strange entries in it
Nov 26 09:07:43 <jacekowski> that's probably user dictionary
Nov 26 09:08:49 <sjk> where can I find it?
Nov 26 09:12:47 <DocScrutinizer51> theres an app for that
Nov 26 09:16:46 <CableTwitch> You know, you can measure the latency between replies in coversations here in days, sometimes... XD
Nov 26 09:17:35 <phellarv> CableTwitch: sssshhhh - We're busy doing nothing.
Nov 26 09:18:31 <CableTwitch> So I noticed.
Nov 26 09:18:41 <CableTwitch> (Please read the above in about an hours time)
Nov 26 09:20:27 <Pillum> lol
Nov 26 09:21:20 <sjk> oh
Nov 26 09:23:07 <Pillum> what?
Nov 26 09:28:51 <DocScrutinizer51> better silence here than another idiot spam on tmo in one thread from one moron every 3 minutes
Nov 26 09:30:37 <CableTwitch> I dunno. I like people talking about stuff in here. I might learn things now and then :O)
Nov 26 09:31:45 <yacc> Wonder if anyone has measured how much skype in idle mode uses bandwidth?
Nov 26 09:34:02 <yacc> CableTwitch, latency of days can be quite normal on some irc channels. It's enough that the core members are all concentrated in one time zone, and during their night you won't get much of an answer.
Nov 26 09:34:08 <crashanddie> study how long did it take you to as yoda speak?
Nov 26 09:38:42 <Pillum> @yacc bandwidth of skype is never constant
Nov 26 09:39:53 <Pillum> cause some things on skype are p2p
Nov 26 09:39:55 <Pillum> like chatting
Nov 26 09:40:02 <Pillum> so
Nov 26 09:40:23 <Pillum> its probable that your skype app will redirect other ones' messages
Nov 26 09:45:43 <Pillum> MohammadAG: ?
Nov 26 10:06:23 <Pillum> someone here with powerv42 and not working camera?
Nov 26 10:06:40 <Termana> It did take me very long at all to learn how to speak like yoda crashanddie not.  Herh herh herh.
Nov 26 10:10:59 <Pillum> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=883645&postcount=410
Nov 26 10:26:22 <chem|st> pong
Nov 26 10:26:43 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer51: pong
Nov 26 10:27:18 <Pillum> ping
Nov 26 10:28:16 <chem|st> pong
Nov 26 10:28:29 <CableTwitch> Twang
Nov 26 10:28:31 <Pillum> MARCOO!!!
Nov 26 10:28:47 <BCMM_> how can i restart PA?
Nov 26 10:28:52 <Pillum> PA?
Nov 26 10:28:59 <FauxFaux> Pule.
Nov 26 10:29:01 <FauxFaux> s
Nov 26 10:29:08 <CableTwitch> Penny Arcade? Click on the button that takes you to the first comic.
Nov 26 10:29:40 <Pillum> Pennsylvania?
Nov 26 10:29:43 <crashanddie> pulseaudio is what he is talking about
Nov 26 10:29:45 <BCMM_> pulseaudio
Nov 26 10:29:46 <crashanddie> not stop being trolls
Nov 26 10:29:51 <chem|st> BCMM_: pactl?
Nov 26 10:30:32 <BCMM_> also, it's stupid, but i thing my sound probs. start when i boot up with the wallcharger plugged in
Nov 26 10:30:33 <CableTwitch> Trolling is winding people up, not making silly comments ;O)
Nov 26 10:30:33 <chem|st> BCMM_: killing it helps too as it should be on autostart
Nov 26 10:30:42 <BCMM_> thanks
Nov 26 10:30:42 <Pillum> pulseaudio -k; pulseaudio -D
Nov 26 10:30:54 <chem|st> ^^
Nov 26 10:31:13 <Pillum> :O
Nov 26 10:31:30 <BCMM_> uh, what is the daemon usually called?
Nov 26 10:31:36 <chem|st> BCMM_: having stuff plugged in while booting seems to be a problem in some cases
Nov 26 10:31:43 <Pillum> pulseaudio i think
Nov 26 10:31:43 <chem|st> pulseaudio
Nov 26 10:31:45 <BCMM_> cause i'm not sure it's running
Nov 26 10:31:51 <Pillum> pulseaudio --check
Nov 26 10:32:18 <BCMM_> Pillum: as root?
Nov 26 10:32:25 <Pillum> duno
Nov 26 10:32:29 <chem|st> BCMM_: no as pulse
Nov 26 10:32:36 <Pillum> --check
Nov 26 10:32:36 <Pillum>     Return 0 as return code when the PulseAudio daemon is already running for the calling user.
Nov 26 10:32:56 <Pillum> so pulseaudio --check; echo $?
Nov 26 10:33:13 <BCMM_> chem|st: it runs as user pulse?
Nov 26 10:33:15 <chem|st> BCMM_: ps fax shows me a usr/bin/pulseaudio running as pulse
Nov 26 10:33:25 <chem|st> BCMM_: yes
Nov 26 10:33:55 <BCMM_> chem|st: bb's ps ignores parameters
Nov 26 10:34:18 <chem|st> BCMM_: then top
Nov 26 10:34:22 <chem|st> or htop
Nov 26 10:34:53 <chem|st> well then ps|grep pulse
Nov 26 10:34:57 <BCMM_> when i'm the user pulse, it doesn't execute 'pulseaudio'
Nov 26 10:35:33 <BCMM_> no perms
Nov 26 10:35:40 <chem|st> you do not become pulse ... what for?
Nov 26 10:36:07 <chem|st> just kill the bastard and start any playback
Nov 26 10:36:16 <BCMM_> chem|st: you sais i should run it as pulse...
Nov 26 10:36:28 <chem|st> it runs as pulse automagically
Nov 26 10:36:32 <BCMM_> chem|st: i can't kill it because it isn't running
Nov 26 10:36:50 <Pillum> then just start it again :D
Nov 26 10:36:51 <chem|st> BCMM_: playback should make it start
Nov 26 10:37:04 <BCMM_> it doesn't
Nov 26 10:37:07 <chem|st> mmh
Nov 26 10:37:16 <BCMM_> no audio anywhere
Nov 26 10:37:20 <Pillum> then do pulseaudio -D ?
Nov 26 10:37:22 <chem|st> BCMM_: start it as user
Nov 26 10:37:35 <chem|st> ^^
Nov 26 10:37:38 <chem|st> daemoned
Nov 26 10:37:56 <BCMM_> i've tried making calls, using mediaplayer, mplayer, aplay, listening for the little window close noise and so on
Nov 26 10:37:59 <BCMM_> nothing
Nov 26 10:38:15 <chem|st> weird as it should be on autostart...
Nov 26 10:38:16 <Pillum> BCMM_: already started it via command line?
Nov 26 10:38:16 <BCMM_> also, volume keys don't pop up the osd
Nov 26 10:38:25 <Pillum> then just reboot .D
Nov 26 10:38:26 <Pillum> :D
Nov 26 10:38:41 <BCMM_> Pillum: doesn't fix it. taking battery out does...
Nov 26 10:38:54 <BCMM_> also, this keeps hapenning
Nov 26 10:40:13 <chem|st> BCMM_: then something is hanging up the hardware
Nov 26 10:41:19 <WhiteWidow> installed custom pulse audio packages?
Nov 26 10:41:35 <BCMM_> doing pulseaudio --system as root fixed it
Nov 26 10:41:40 <BCMM_> this is odd...
Nov 26 10:41:44 <chem|st> ok just trying like I would do on my desktop
Nov 26 10:42:08 <BCMM_> i'm going to reboot and see what happens
Nov 26 10:42:14 <chem|st> this is fscking crazy what nokia did to maemo
Nov 26 10:42:41 <CableTwitch> ?
Nov 26 10:42:43 <BCMM_> i recently installed a custom fmtxd and fmtx kernel mod, could that do this?
Nov 26 10:45:41 <BCMM> well, this just gets weirder
Nov 26 10:45:48 <RobbieThe1st> ?
Nov 26 10:45:55 <BCMM> running pulesaudio --system from the command line fixed it, as in it was still fixed after reboot
Nov 26 10:46:15 <BCMM> normally, i need to take the battery out to fix that...
Nov 26 10:46:43 <RobbieThe1st> Interesting
Nov 26 10:47:31 <BCMM> as far as i have observed so far: after i boot it once with the wall charger plugged in, this happens every boot until i either take hte battery out or run pulseaudio --system
Nov 26 10:47:47 <BCMM> does that make any sense at all to anyone?
Nov 26 10:47:58 <BCMM> ah, this time a regular reboot fixed it
Nov 26 10:48:03 <BCMM> so i don't know now
Nov 26 10:48:21 <BCMM> i'm still pretty much sure it happens every time i boot up with the charger connected though, which is annoying
Nov 26 11:06:23 <yacc> Pillum, yeah, but the moment I've changed from my G1 to the N900, my data usage has gone up by around 900MB. Before it was seldom over 100MB mobile data, now it's over 1GB month by month. And while the browser is better, so I surf more, it's mostly text-oriented stuff that would work fine in lynx, ...
Nov 26 11:06:59 <yacc> Pillum, the only thing that I've got "more" on the N900 is Skype, ...
Nov 26 11:07:57 <yacc> Actually the N900 is nicer because it manages to reliably connect my WLAN here, and while working it routes through USB, so it should have a bit of less mobile traffic.
Nov 26 11:08:07 <chem|st> yacc: and automatic software update calling down 5-25MB everytime you login (depends on active repos)
Nov 26 11:08:26 <yacc> chem|st, login?
Nov 26 11:08:44 <chem|st> connect to 3G internet
Nov 26 11:09:00 <yacc> chem|st, I don't use the normal GUI, I prefer to do all my package management via apt.
Nov 26 11:09:14 <chem|st> yacc: "automatically"
Nov 26 11:09:24 <chem|st> yacc: not "userset"
Nov 26 11:09:40 <yacc> chem|st, every time I connect to 3G internet? How do I disable that? Without removing the sources in /etc/apt?
Nov 26 11:09:58 <yacc> I don't need any automatic apt-get update calls.
Nov 26 11:10:18 <yacc> chem|st, OTOH, I use it mostly in 2G mode, to save battery.
Nov 26 11:10:42 <chem|st> yacc: anytime you connect to the internet once a day afair (does not matter if 2G 3G or wifi)
Nov 26 11:11:12 <chem|st> yacc: gconftool -s –type=int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 60000
Nov 26 11:11:23 <yacc> Well, 2G with 4KB/s max download does not manage more than 15MB/hour.
Nov 26 11:11:36 <chem|st> yacc: the 60000 are minutes, there is no way to turn it off I know about
Nov 26 11:11:36 <PrimeZ> Anyone got n900?
Nov 26 11:12:15 <chem|st> PrimeZ: nope noone in here got anything like that... wht was the question again?
Nov 26 11:12:37 <yacc> chem|st, yeah I figured that 1440 looks like 24h expressed as minutes ;)
Nov 26 11:12:48 <chem|st> yacc: exactly
Nov 26 11:13:20 <chem|st> yacc: it is weird enough that it is minutes but not having an OFF key
Nov 26 11:13:42 <chem|st> PrimeZ: what are you after?
Nov 26 11:14:37 <chem|st> yacc: and back in PR1.1.1 the delete button key value for mediaplayer was false...
Nov 26 11:15:29 <yacc> chem|st, Yeah we all use other maemo mobiles, that's why the channel is #maemo and not #n900 :-P
Nov 26 11:16:33 <chem|st> yacc: sure but it is obvious that the amount of n900 owners in here is >0 just from nicknames
Nov 26 11:17:04 <PrimeZ> chem|st: the n900 call volume is too low. Trying to see if there's a fix to it.
Nov 26 11:17:10 <PrimeZ> Or yet it seems another nokia failure
Nov 26 11:17:18 <yacc> chem|st, Well, the amount of non-n900 users here is probably not that high.
Nov 26 11:17:23 <BCMM> hmm seems OK to me
Nov 26 11:17:56 <chem|st> PrimeZ: it is only the gsm call volume and that highly depends on your network and the other end
Nov 26 11:17:58 <BCMM> (the call volume)
Nov 26 11:18:04 <PrimeZ> both the call volume AND when activating the call speaker, which is nowhere near the ringtone volume.
Nov 26 11:18:23 <PrimeZ> chem|st: I have another nokia phone here with an incredible volume on both.
Nov 26 11:19:08 <chem|st> PrimeZ: is the volume low in skype/sip/jabber or any other calling software
Nov 26 11:19:25 <PrimeZ> anywhere
Nov 26 11:19:32 <PrimeZ> skype/regular phone calls etc
Nov 26 11:19:51 <PrimeZ> the 6131 i got here volumes are awesome
Nov 26 11:20:04 <chem|st> mmh check your volumes in x-terminal
Nov 26 11:20:05 <PrimeZ> I guess its a hardware issue
Nov 26 11:20:10 <PrimeZ> chem|st: how?
Nov 26 11:20:25 <chem|st> alsamixer for one
Nov 26 11:20:39 <PrimeZ> hm
Nov 26 11:20:42 <PrimeZ> checking
Nov 26 11:20:49 <chem|st> press TAB until you see all controls
Nov 26 11:21:22 <chem|st> put them to 100%
Nov 26 11:21:40 <PrimeZ> nice
Nov 26 11:21:43 <PrimeZ> but they are at 100
Nov 26 11:21:44 <PrimeZ> :)
Nov 26 11:22:01 <chem|st> PrimeZ: yeah that is expected
Nov 26 11:22:31 <PrimeZ> shit, now after googled, i guess its game over
Nov 26 11:22:32 <PrimeZ> :p
Nov 26 11:22:35 <PrimeZ> everyone complains about it
Nov 26 11:22:39 <PrimeZ> coplainED
Nov 26 11:22:53 <PrimeZ> old threads
Nov 26 11:23:13 <chem|st> PrimeZ: not exactly, I have only issues with gsm and that depends on the other end as well as on which network I am calling to
Nov 26 11:26:24 <PrimeZ> lol i see people disassmble the n900 to increase the volume, omfg
Nov 26 11:26:48 <PrimeZ> taking open source to the hardware levels
Nov 26 11:26:49 <PrimeZ> :D
Nov 26 11:29:15 <MohammadAG> sigh Nov 26 13:13:03 Nokia-N900 init: pulseaudio main process (1104) terminated with status 127
Nov 26 11:29:24 <MohammadAG> is there any way to debug that shit?
Nov 26 11:29:32 <lolloo> I get buzzing sounds when calling, do you think it's hardware or software?
Nov 26 11:29:43 <chem|st> MohammadAG: not that I know
Nov 26 11:30:07 <chem|st> MohammadAG: do you knwo how to get some sink info out of pulse?
Nov 26 11:30:19 <MohammadAG> nope lol
Nov 26 11:31:14 <chem|st> MohammadAG: it is so damn hard to figure things out with all these stripped tools
Nov 26 11:32:32 <chem|st> on a desktop the user in group pulse is able to configure, on maemo I get for most control stuff "no pulse running" reply
Nov 26 11:36:14 <yacc> Worse, anyone got an idea why my n900 does not ring (phone, alarm clock, calendar alerts), but it beeps fine on IM messages (and last time I checked played fine music)?
Nov 26 11:37:04 <chem|st> http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode
Nov 26 11:38:56 <chem|st> just checked it is not normal to have it as gloabl service and I do not have it on my desktop that way, the pulse group is just to be abel to start pulse I guess
Nov 26 11:39:31 <chem|st> "much higher memory usage and CPU load in system mode"
Nov 26 11:40:54 <yacc> chem|st, yeah, I wondered about that too. CPU okay, it seems fast enough, but memory? On a memory starved device like the n900?
Nov 26 11:41:22 <chem|st> would be interesting how that compares to a proper usersetup with pulse
Nov 26 11:42:06 <chem|st> yacc: that system mode is for embedded systems or thin clients where no real local user exists
Nov 26 11:43:11 <yacc> chem|st, well, we do have one "proper" (or not, don't get philosophical about that) user, Mr. "user" ;)
Nov 26 11:43:32 <yacc> wonder what would happen if I rename the user and move the $HOME, ...
Nov 26 11:45:01 <BCMM> maybe they said "fsck security", and patched it so it didn't disable shared memory?
Nov 26 11:45:21 <BCMM> i don't know whether that's better or worse than saying "fsck performance" on an embedded device
Nov 26 11:48:21 <kerio> you should say "fuck those morons, let's have performance *and* security"
Nov 26 11:49:21 <chem|st> BCMM: both security measures are off by default
Nov 26 11:49:46 <chem|st> pulse gives a warning that they arent set when starting on CLI
Nov 26 11:50:19 <BCMM> chem|st: not sure i understand - PA website says they are forced disabled in system mode
Nov 26 11:54:45 * alterego yawns
Nov 26 11:54:47 <chem|st> BCMM: and nokia managed to enable to have an easy access to pull things around wether being root user or anyone else
Nov 26 11:55:07 <BCMM> now i really don't understand...
Nov 26 11:58:51 <chem|st> BCMM: module loading should be disallowed or even forced to be disabled but it isn't on my n900 so nokia people managed to enable stuff which used to be disabled (forced or not)
Nov 26 11:59:39 <chem|st> but they did not remove the check part for it so pulse complains about those active modules on startup
Nov 26 11:59:44 <alterego> Part of the open platform that is maemo :P
Nov 26 12:00:54 <BCMM> ah, so they broke pulseaudio's security a bit
Nov 26 12:01:05 <BCMM> without removing the warnings?
Nov 26 12:04:20 <chem|st> at least it looks alike
Nov 26 12:10:26 <dazo> Anyone had issues with Media Player not finding songs after flashing to PR-1.3? ... I have quite a collection of songs, in mp3, mp4 and ogg ... it worked very fine before, but after flashing and installing OGG support again, none of my songs are found any more - only the "demo songs" and songs on my SD card
Nov 26 12:17:11 <chem|st> MohammadAG: do you know where the actual volume values are stored?
Nov 26 12:17:46 <MohammadAG> chem|st, you can get them with dbus i think
Nov 26 12:18:06 <chem|st> MohammadAG: and set them with dbus I guess
Nov 26 12:18:21 <MohammadAG> i know how to set them  :P
Nov 26 12:18:25 <MohammadAG> sec
Nov 26 12:18:44 <alterego> Hrm, how can I detect when my app is switched into background?
Nov 26 12:18:49 <chem|st> MohammadAG: I'd like to read all volumes
Nov 26 12:18:51 <MohammadAG> dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume variant:uint32:100
Nov 26 12:18:54 <MohammadAG> for 100
Nov 26 12:19:11 <chem|st> MohammadAG: thats percent then
Nov 26 12:19:44 <chem|st> MohammadAG: and gstr, I am looking for the sink volumes of pulse
Nov 26 12:20:21 <chem|st> MohammadAG: as it seems that they are not set to a proper value
Nov 26 12:21:33 <PrimeZ>  yacc: replace it with a real phone
Nov 26 12:21:34 <PrimeZ> :D
Nov 26 12:21:36 <PrimeZ> teh iphone 4
Nov 26 12:21:41 <MohammadAG> alterego, isn't a dbus signal sent?
Nov 26 12:21:46 <PrimeZ> thats my the conclusion i reached 1 hour ago
Nov 26 12:21:46 <PrimeZ> :p
Nov 26 12:22:00 <alterego> MohammadAG: don't know.
Nov 26 12:22:21 <PrimeZ> since 3g, nokia has been an epic failure, and now with the touch.
Nov 26 12:22:37 <blackthorne> what is the required apt-get repository for zip/unzip tools?
Nov 26 12:23:38 <yacc> PrimeZ, well, actually I'm quite happy, you can see how critical phone communication is to me by the fact that I've ignored this little fault for over a week without trying to figure it out ;)
Nov 26 12:24:53 <chem|st> PrimeZ: iphone is not a good phone; however, it is a good dog leash
Nov 26 12:24:53 <PrimeZ> well i thought the nokia was good
Nov 26 12:24:58 <PrimeZ> untill i saw my friend iphone 4
Nov 26 12:25:05 <PrimeZ> which does everything the n900 can, but better
Nov 26 12:25:07 <PrimeZ> far better
Nov 26 12:25:28 <yacc> PrimeZ, the N900 is clearly way nearer to my idea of a perfect phone than more "normal" phones where I have first to root them or jailbrake them to own them, which I understand as my right as I've been buying fullprice phones for years now.
Nov 26 12:25:31 <PrimeZ> did u see the gps on google map? fast and super clean user experience.
Nov 26 12:25:33 <PrimeZ> the ui is amazing.
Nov 26 12:26:13 <PrimeZ> yacc: apple brought jailbreak on themselves, either way, after a small modification, the iphone is clearly far superior to the n900
Nov 26 12:26:20 <yacc> PrimeZ, and an iPhone is not even a contender as I need to switch SIMs between different countries.
Nov 26 12:26:21 <blackthorne> PrimeZ: I really like the iPhone 4 but no, it doesn't everything the n900 can
Nov 26 12:26:22 <BCMM> PrimeZ: it can not do everything the n900 can do.
Nov 26 12:26:33 <PrimeZ> orly?
Nov 26 12:26:34 <BCMM> PrimeZ: for example, it won't run stuff i wrote.
Nov 26 12:26:46 <blackthorne> BCMM: you can, though
Nov 26 12:26:59 <BCMM> (without occasionally bricking during a routing update)
Nov 26 12:27:03 <BCMM> and i like programming!
Nov 26 12:27:04 <blackthorne> PrimeZ: you can't do this: python
Nov 26 12:27:13 <yacc> PrimeZ, the jailbroken iPhone of my wife for example does not to tethering. The N900 does tethering in practically all thinkable setups.
Nov 26 12:27:15 <PrimeZ> BCMM: you see this specific trait of the n900 is for an ultra low % of people that actually wanna run thier own apps.
Nov 26 12:27:26 <BCMM> PrimeZ: well, that's not everything
Nov 26 12:27:26 <chem|st> PrimeZ: you just got marked as apple fanboy, and as long as iphone is more a style gadget than a useful item it will be for guys without balls only
Nov 26 12:27:31 <BCMM> PrimeZ: the iphone is not for geeks
Nov 26 12:27:33 <blackthorne> PrimeZ: flash, you don't run flash better in your iPhone 4
Nov 26 12:27:46 <BCMM> this channel is probably primarily geeks, and i think you are intentionally trolling them
Nov 26 12:27:58 <blackthorne> PrimeZ: flash is not such a geeky thing...
Nov 26 12:28:01 <BCMM> fcam is pretty cool as well
Nov 26 12:28:09 <chem|st> PrimeZ: export your iphones gps as BT serial device?!
Nov 26 12:28:11 <BCMM> can you do that sort of low-level camera control on an iphone?
Nov 26 12:28:41 <BCMM> the main thing the iphone is missing is something like "cool stuff it wasn't designed for"
Nov 26 12:28:45 <BCMM> it's hard to hack.
Nov 26 12:28:52 <yacc> PrimeZ, and I don't think that the iPhone can compete on the browser front either, considering that it cannot do flash at all, I think 10 of the top 10 brands in the US have a website that is not viewable by an iPhone ;)
Nov 26 12:30:15 <Choom> 1[6~
Nov 26 12:31:03 <PrimeZ> I dont consider myself a super geek, but im working as a java programmer
Nov 26 12:31:14 <PrimeZ> but i dont see myself going into the x terminal with my n900 too often
Nov 26 12:31:22 <chem|st> most iphone friends I have live at facebook and are easy target for identity theft ;)
Nov 26 12:31:28 <blackthorne> PrimeZ: you can't replace your iphone's battery
Nov 26 12:31:50 <PrimeZ> blackthorne: yea that i know, but there are those 3rd world stores that can do it :)
Nov 26 12:32:00 <BCMM> PrimeZ: iphone can't port scan wireless networks
Nov 26 12:32:05 <yacc> PrimeZ, nor does the iPhone tuxpaint, which made my N900 quite popular with my daughter, but then my daughter has loved tuxpaint since being a toddler.
Nov 26 12:32:06 <BCMM> (talking of the terminal)
Nov 26 12:32:08 <blackthorne> I mean, you can't carry 2 batteries with you
Nov 26 12:32:14 <chem|st> PrimeZ: then it is the wrong phone for you...
Nov 26 12:32:21 <chem|st> PrimeZ: wanna sell yours?
Nov 26 12:32:38 <PrimeZ> chem|st: im looking for an iphone
Nov 26 12:32:43 <PrimeZ> but cant find a proper price for it
Nov 26 12:32:44 <chem|st> blackthorne: there are mobile chargers
Nov 26 12:32:48 <blackthorne> PrimeZ: the things they in common, iPhone 4 tends to be better from the user perspective but there are a lot of things beyond that the iPhone 4 can't even do
Nov 26 12:32:52 <PrimeZ> since i live in a half third world country
Nov 26 12:32:52 <PrimeZ> :D
Nov 26 12:33:07 <PrimeZ> If I lived in the US i had most certainly get the iphone
Nov 26 12:33:09 <PrimeZ> since its only like 500$
Nov 26 12:33:13 <chem|st> PrimeZ: 950eur iP4 32GB?!
Nov 26 12:33:16 <PrimeZ> the UI is unmatched
Nov 26 12:33:18 <blackthorne> chem|st: chargers? you mean those solar toys?
Nov 26 12:33:21 <yacc> PrimeZ, and hint, the iPhone does use up battery as any other smartphone when you "power-use" it.
Nov 26 12:33:30 <BCMM> PrimeZ: hang on, where is half third world, but isn't the US?
Nov 26 12:33:35 <PrimeZ> israel
Nov 26 12:33:35 <PrimeZ> :P
Nov 26 12:33:38 <chem|st> blackthorne: no mobile batteries
Nov 26 12:33:40 <PrimeZ> at the moment
Nov 26 12:34:02 <chem|st> yacc: dead in 3.5h
Nov 26 12:34:03 <BCMM> i would call the n900 a computer
Nov 26 12:34:08 <BCMM> i would not say the same for an iphone
Nov 26 12:34:08 <PrimeZ> it is
Nov 26 12:34:26 <yacc> PrimeZ, so one of the critical items on my checklist is not even feasible is "having an external charger that can charge the 2nd (or 3rd) battery pack without the phone".
Nov 26 12:34:53 <blackthorne> chem|st: well yes, it's not as good considering the volume and the price. Other thing, you may have to throw away your ipod/iphone if the battery dies not as easy as replacing a battery in the n900
Nov 26 12:35:03 <BCMM> the iphone is a better fit for you than the n900 if the iphone is a better fit for you than a full computer
Nov 26 12:35:30 <chem|st> blackthorne: true, didn't throw on that ;)
Nov 26 12:35:46 <chem|st> BCMM: wrong way around
Nov 26 12:36:10 <chem|st> if the iphone is a good gadget for you the n900 is the wrong to even look at
Nov 26 12:36:28 <yacc> PrimeZ, then the lack of a physical keyboard, which is important to me. But the closed-ness of the iOS ecosystem is a show stopper. I will not let Mr. Jobs dictate what I can do on a phone that I bought.
Nov 26 12:36:34 <BCMM> what i meant was that the iphone is an easy but somewhat limited experience. you'll prefer it to an n900 if you also prefer it to using a proper computer
Nov 26 12:36:53 <chem|st> the only thing I am missin here is a magnetic-compass
Nov 26 12:37:15 <BCMM> yeah
Nov 26 12:37:24 <BCMM> there is that
Nov 26 12:37:30 <yacc> PrimeZ, can the iPhone access the internet via USB? Can I remote control it from the PC via VNC?
Nov 26 12:37:47 <chem|st> yacc: we can stop now...
Nov 26 12:37:52 <BCMM> (does hostmode work well enough for us to troll iphone users with it yet?)
Nov 26 12:37:55 <chem|st> this discussion is pointless
Nov 26 12:38:03 <chem|st> BCMM: yes
Nov 26 12:38:08 <BCMM> have you seen the compass in gpxview?
Nov 26 12:38:09 <yacc> BCMM, with the power user kernel I think so.
Nov 26 12:38:10 <Termana> yacc, ACTUALLY it can
Nov 26 12:38:15 <BCMM> nice workaround for lack of a magnetic compas
Nov 26 12:38:21 <yacc> Termana, ?
Nov 26 12:38:31 <BCMM> it shows you a compass with north, your target, and the position of the sun on it
Nov 26 12:38:39 <Termana> Maybe you should actually think about what your saying before trying to be a smart arse and talk like an idiot
Nov 26 12:38:54 <chem|st> BCMM: very good at night on a boat where your gps just died
Nov 26 12:38:59 <Termana> The iPhone can access internet over USB and you can control it with a PC with VNC
Nov 26 12:38:59 <BCMM> heh
Nov 26 12:39:31 <Termana> I'll admit, you need to jailbreak to gain this functionality
Nov 26 12:39:35 <Termana> But it is there
Nov 26 12:39:42 <BCMM> chem|st: not sure what you mean about the gps dieing, the n900 has gps
Nov 26 12:39:56 <chem|st> BCMM: the on-boat one
Nov 26 12:39:59 <yacc> Termana, the USB thing might be feasible, but then it uses non-standard protocols for USB, so I cannot even USB-tether it with my Linux laptop. And Linux is where I earn my money.
Nov 26 12:40:00 <BCMM> oh ok
Nov 26 12:40:07 <BCMM> boat is a perfect example of where you don't need a magnetic compass, since you are in constant forwards motion
Nov 26 12:40:26 <chem|st> BCMM: actually no
Nov 26 12:40:37 <RST38h> 1
Nov 26 12:40:43 <BCMM> oh, currents could cause you to move sideways, yeah
Nov 26 12:40:44 <yacc> Termana, and jailbreaking phones are so compatible with itunes and small kids that are Windows-trained and press "yes" or "ok" on every dialog without thinking.
Nov 26 12:41:21 <chem|st> I am at a mooring and turning slightly I quickly need the direction for land as it is dark as hell... just one use case
Nov 26 12:41:26 <BCMM> but at any rate, in a boat that's actually moving, you will be able to see the vector you are following, and correct it
Nov 26 12:41:29 <chem|st> movement is less then 5m per minut
Nov 26 12:41:30 <yacc> Termana, my wife loved that one, because I made her jailbreak her phone herself, OTOH, she survived for almost 2 weeks without a mobile before managing that feat ;)
Nov 26 12:41:47 <BCMM> chem|st: yeah, a magnetic compass is useful really
Nov 26 12:42:11 <chem|st> indeed
Nov 26 12:42:12 <Termana> yacc, I'm not even sure what you just tried to say, it makes no grammatical sense
Nov 26 12:42:20 <Termana> RST38h, 2
Nov 26 12:42:54 <chem|st> Termana: jailbrake does not count as you may put another OS on it if capable of the coding
Nov 26 12:42:55 <yacc> Termana, jailbreaking an iPhone is a way more stressy procedure than installing openssh-server via the Application Manager app.
Nov 26 12:43:28 <yacc> Termana, there are people that managed to put Android on a iPhone, so what? It's still first playing cat and mice with the manufacturer.
Nov 26 12:43:39 <yacc> Termana, that's not a way to treat me as a customer.
Nov 26 12:44:33 <BCMM> yeah, i don't think anything that will make the manufacturer attempt to brick your device can be used when arguing for your device's usefullness
Nov 26 12:44:50 <yacc> Termana, well, when my wife's iPhone was un-jailbroken by iTunes because our daughter was at the PC, I refused to jailbreak it for her, and she had to google herself through seedy sites to jailbreak it.
Nov 26 12:44:52 <Termana> yacc, well, I've done two iPod Touches I have laying around (somewhere), and it didn't really seem "stressy". I plugged them in and hit a button, waited for it to finish and reboot.
Nov 26 12:45:07 <Termana> yacc, right that makes more sense.
Nov 26 12:45:39 <chem|st> Termana: the point is that you need to jailbrake it to have some use of it
Nov 26 12:45:39 <Termana> yacc, In regards to the lock down, you realise even Nokia will be doing this in the future?
Nov 26 12:45:42 <yacc> Termana, not really my observation, my wife lived without a mobile for over a week till she managed to find her way ;)
Nov 26 12:46:18 <yacc> Termana, how so? They had the first smartphones? I could program my old Nokia E61 with Python.
Nov 26 12:47:12 <chem|st> and nokia will use meego in the future now tell how that will lock down devices (I am really curious!)
Nov 26 12:47:16 <Termana> yacc, locked down as in, you change your kernel you won't access data, certain apps etc.
Nov 26 12:47:19 <yacc> Termana, well, they might, they probably will do it for some of their phones. But the others are doing things to make it extra hard on their customers today.
Nov 26 12:47:38 <SpeedEvil> Being able to run your own programs on it is not quite the same as not bein glocked down.
Nov 26 12:48:08 <Termana> chem|st, that's a silly thing to say. Android is open as well, but Android phones are locked down.
Nov 26 12:48:15 <yacc> Termana, You mean like certain Motorola Androids that brick themselves in hardware when you do one thing wrong during "rooting" them?
Nov 26 12:48:17 <Termana> (most) Android phones*
Nov 26 12:48:35 <Termana> yacc, yes and then looks at some techniques other manufactures are using
Nov 26 12:48:37 <Termana> NAND lock
Nov 26 12:48:43 <Termana> Wiping NAND caches
Nov 26 12:48:54 <Termana> look*
Nov 26 12:48:58 <chem|st> ok that is another class for itself
Nov 26 12:49:02 <Corsac> Termana: there's a large chance that meego phones will be locked as well
Nov 26 12:49:09 <yacc> Termana, Well, my G1 was not locked down, and I would not accept a locked down phone. Funny not even my wife finds a locked phone acceptable after enjoying Apple's take on customer friendliness.
Nov 26 12:49:24 <Termana> Corsac, <Termana> yacc, In regards to the lock down, you realise even Nokia will be doing this in the future?
Nov 26 12:49:29 <chem|st> well I got my n900 and as long there is hardware there will be someone to code for it ;)
Nov 26 12:49:42 <Corsac> Termana: do we have confirmation that Nokia will do it?
Nov 26 12:49:55 <Termana> Corsac, Nokia said they will if carriers ask them to
Nov 26 12:50:02 <Corsac> ok
Nov 26 12:50:12 <Termana> Confirmation for the Harmattan device at least - beyond that, who knows I suppose
Nov 26 12:50:42 <Corsac> I'm not really sure what harmattan means nowadays anyway :)
Nov 26 12:50:54 <Termana> yacc, unless you got a Developer's Phone direct from Google, your G1 WAS locked down
Nov 26 12:50:57 <yacc> Termana, basically a closed toy-device cannot compete with a serious work phone, which in my case means that I can tether through it in less than 1h after unpacking it. (that's the roaming freelancer in me, that's a hard requirement).
Nov 26 12:51:36 <yacc> Termana, well, yes it was locked down but after unlocking it once, I was never bothered again by iTunes trying to break it for me.
Nov 26 12:51:55 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st:  could you move a few posts?
Nov 26 12:52:06 <Termana> yacc, iTunes would have updated the iPhone. If you had done an OTA update for the G1 it would break it as well
Nov 26 12:52:08 <yacc> Termana, and I could have gotten an ADP1 as easily it would have been just more expensive.
Nov 26 12:53:13 <yacc> Termana, but yes, nobody tries to force an update on me. iTunes has a tendency to ask nicely for that. And if you plug it in to a 3rd party PC with installed itunes, ...
Nov 26 12:54:57 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: sure
Nov 26 12:55:04 <blackthorne> how do I add the extras-testing repository ?
Nov 26 12:55:10 <Termana> yacc, right, plugging the iPhone into another person's computer is not a good idea - that's a problem. Problems are good to identify and point out to show advantages of one thing over another, but talking about something untruthfully doesn't.
Nov 26 12:55:23 <BCMM> what happens if you do?
Nov 26 12:55:46 <Termana> BCMM, AFAIK an iPhone can only sync with one computer
Nov 26 12:56:03 <Termana> so it will delete all your music, possibly apps and sync to that person's music etc.
Nov 26 12:56:14 <chem|st> blackthorne: same as extras but with -testing in the web address
Nov 26 12:56:18 <BCMM> what does sync mean? does that mean you can't just use it as mass storage?
Nov 26 12:56:21 <yacc> Termana, basically an iPhone is not relevant because it does not allow by default to put any SIM into it. It does not allow tethering by default. The whole jailbreaking experience is fragile, e.g. some versions of the jailbreak rely on the PC to do it every time it starts. Fun if you run out of battery traveling, ...
Nov 26 12:56:57 <yacc> Termana, well, I had my VNC setup on my n900 on day 1. I've never read or seen a VNC setup for an iPhone.
Nov 26 12:56:57 <Termana> BCMM, you could if you killed the iTunes daemon I suppose. iTunes runs a daemon in the background to detect iPhones, and automatically starts when you plug one in
Nov 26 12:57:50 <Termana> yacc, your first point is US based only. I can get an off-contract iPhone here in Australia that will work with any carrier here.
Nov 26 12:57:54 <yacc> Termana, plus there is always that funny problem, that Apple seems to have no working download links for Linux iTunes :)
Nov 26 12:58:06 <Termana> yacc, but I know VNC works
Nov 26 12:58:18 <yacc> Termana, you cannot get it in Austria.
Nov 26 12:58:31 <Termana> AustraLIA
Nov 26 12:58:33 <yacc> Termana, you cannot get it without a special iPhone plan in Austria to be exactly.
Nov 26 12:58:42 <yacc> Termana, Austria != Australia, I know.
Nov 26 12:58:59 <Termana> yacc, oh I see, your in Austria? sorry :p
Nov 26 12:59:19 <Termana> Tripped me up for a second there
Nov 26 12:59:34 <chem|st> Termana: don't tell you do not know the "No Kangaroos in Austria" flaw at G20...
Nov 26 12:59:35 <yacc> Termana, but again, an iPhone seems to need iTunes to activate at all. No Linux iTunes, so it's not feasable for to use it. Simple?
Nov 26 13:00:14 <Termana> yacc, in regards to iTunes for Linux - I think Apple would probably rather ignore Linux because they would see it as a potential threat
Nov 26 13:00:31 <yacc> Termana, yeah I know, it was funny 20 years ago when some US border guards in North Dakota of all places kept us for hours because they mistook our Austrian passports for badly forged Australian ones.
Nov 26 13:00:43 <yacc> Termana, yeah, so basically iPhones are not being offered to me.
Nov 26 13:01:21 <Termana> chem|st, I didn't until now :p
Nov 26 13:01:39 <chem|st> Termana: http://202.58.40.60/elements/img/article/638x359/skynews_537774.jpg
Nov 26 13:01:40 <yacc> Termana, I can easily use an Android as a Linux user. The n900 shines in that role. Emporer Jobs dictates to me which OS I should use to do my work?
Nov 26 13:02:37 <chem|st> Termana: they put up figures of all prime ministers with a stereo type clothing and put the australian one in a red white austria "tracht"
Nov 26 13:02:45 <Termana> chem|st, heh :p
Nov 26 13:03:03 <crashanddie> don't feed the troll
Nov 26 13:03:08 <crashanddie> yacc, take your trash outside
Nov 26 13:03:18 <yacc> Termana, btw, Nokia S60 works perfectly with Linux too.
Nov 26 13:03:35 <Termana> chem|st, I didn't think our international communications were that bad :p
Nov 26 13:03:45 <nidO> tbh s60 works well at pretty much everything except being pretty
Nov 26 13:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> ohhh, Friday?
Nov 26 13:06:15 <nidO> indeed, day off \o/
Nov 26 13:06:25 <yacc> Termana, it's like comparing buying and owning a car (where you can do everything that is legal with your property) versus renting a car or carsharing (where you are basically only a tenant and your landlord decides many things that can be done or not done).
Nov 26 13:07:17 <blackthorne> my friend the acquired an n900 two days ago
Nov 26 13:07:21 <blackthorne> already screwed it up
Nov 26 13:07:28 <blackthorne> with the kernel extras package, I think
Nov 26 13:08:09 <blackthorne> the new SMS message opened prepopulated with "random" data
Nov 26 13:08:42 <blackthorne> other than that
Nov 26 13:08:48 <ShadowJK> why the hell are newbies installing extra kernel packages
Nov 26 13:09:08 <blackthorne> he restored factory defaults
Nov 26 13:09:13 <blackthorne> and then... brick
Nov 26 13:09:27 <blackthorne> turns on the device, sees the Nokia logo
Nov 26 13:09:31 <blackthorne> just that
Nov 26 13:11:16 <yacc> blackthorne, well, than he needs to reflash it.
Nov 26 13:11:27 <blackthorne> that's what I told him
Nov 26 13:11:35 <blackthorne> though I am newbie too
Nov 26 13:11:41 <blackthorne> just have it for one day
Nov 26 13:13:20 <blackthorne> still looking for zip/unzip tools and a decent twitter client for this
Nov 26 13:16:26 <crashanddie> blackthorne, khweeteur works
Nov 26 13:16:51 <MohammadAG> FCam Error: V4L2Sensor: Error opening /dev/video0: Device or resource busy
Nov 26 13:16:58 <MohammadAG> does anyone know what that means?
Nov 26 13:17:41 <javispedro> ebusy :)
Nov 26 13:18:10 <MohammadAG> obviously :P
Nov 26 13:18:28 <MohammadAG> it works fine on my device, but not on a friend's
Nov 26 13:18:38 <javispedro> camera app open?
Nov 26 13:18:41 <DocScrutinizer> damn, my spyware didn't free the frontcam
Nov 26 13:18:45 <javispedro> use fuser or lsof to check
Nov 26 13:21:43 <peb> Hi folks ..
Nov 26 13:22:05 <DocScrutinizer> lo
Nov 26 13:25:20 <blackthorne> crashanddie: lists support ? dual account?
Nov 26 13:25:40 <crashanddie> sorry?
Nov 26 13:25:52 <blackthorne> khweeteur
Nov 26 13:26:20 <crashanddie> no idae
Nov 26 13:26:48 <blackthorne> maybe it's going to be my first n900 project
Nov 26 13:26:52 <blackthorne> a decent twitter client
Nov 26 13:31:06 <DocScrutinizer> what's thp's taskswitcher patch?
Nov 26 13:37:51 <thp> DocScrutinizer: the hildon-desktop patch for having bigger thumbnails in the switcher?
Nov 26 13:38:15 <thp> http://thp.io/2010/maemo/hd-single_column_layout.png
Nov 26 13:38:22 <DocScrutinizer> mhm
Nov 26 13:38:50 <thp> you'll find the patches at http://thp.io/2010/maemo/
Nov 26 13:39:07 <thp> (the "big-task-switcher" one)
Nov 26 13:40:00 <DocScrutinizer> thanks
Nov 26 13:42:30 <yacc> Any idea how came that the settings app cannot access audio, despite that pulse is running fine?
Nov 26 13:42:49 <DocScrutinizer> errr
Nov 26 13:43:00 <DocScrutinizer> why should settings app access audio?
Nov 26 13:45:49 <yacc> Can anyone with a working sound do a ls -l /proc/*/fd/* | grep /dev/snd and privmsg it to me?
Nov 26 13:46:09 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Well I try to set a different ring tone, ...
Nov 26 13:46:42 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Actually I'm interested to figure out why my phone does not ring, while not on silent profile, and with a volume set that should be hearable.
Nov 26 13:47:16 <DocScrutinizer> I'd guess one of your extras-devel pkgs is acting up
Nov 26 13:48:14 <DocScrutinizer> lrwx------ 1 root      root      64 2010-11-26 14:39 /proc/760/fd/3 -> /dev/snd/controlC0
Nov 26 13:48:16 <DocScrutinizer> lrwx------ 1 pulse     pulse     64 2010-11-26 14:39 /proc/798/fd/18 -> /dev/snd/controlC0
Nov 26 13:48:59 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: let me guess ps | grep 760 gives you some alsa named process, and 798 is pulseaudio
Nov 26 13:50:44 <DocScrutinizer> lrn2ask :-P
Nov 26 13:50:49 <DocScrutinizer> IroN900:~# lsof /dev/snd/controlC0
Nov 26 13:50:51 <DocScrutinizer> COMMAND   PID  USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME
Nov 26 13:50:52 <DocScrutinizer> alsaped   760  root    3u   CHR  116,0      1742 /dev/snd/controlC0
Nov 26 13:50:54 <DocScrutinizer> pulseaudi 798 pulse   18u   CHR  116,0      1742 /dev/snd/controlC0
Nov 26 13:51:51 <MohammadAG> yacc, pulseaudio not started?
Nov 26 13:51:55 <MohammadAG> it's fucking annoying me
Nov 26 13:52:10 <yacc> MohammadAG, it's started but even mediaplayer refuses to play anything.
Nov 26 13:52:17 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, what kernel are you on?
Nov 26 13:52:31 <yacc> Actually it beeps that it cannot do it.
Nov 26 13:52:32 <DocScrutinizer> pr1.2 stock
Nov 26 13:52:34 <MohammadAG> I'm thinking kernel-power's causing problems with pulseaudio
Nov 26 13:52:44 <yacc> MohammadAG, I'm on stock kernel too.
Nov 26 13:52:54 <yacc> Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown
Nov 26 13:53:42 <alterego> MohammadAG: fixed columbus to suspened UI updates when in background or screen locked now, so your battery issue shouldn't be a problem anymore ;)
Nov 26 13:54:04 <alterego> MohammadAG: fancy being one of my beta testers next week?
Nov 26 13:54:13 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: \o/
Nov 26 13:54:20 <yacc> Is there one process that I can kill so that the whole user interface restarts?
Nov 26 13:54:50 <DocScrutinizer> hildon-desktop?
Nov 26 13:55:00 <MohammadAG> alterego, yay, sure :)
Nov 26 13:55:05 <MohammadAG> nope
Nov 26 13:55:14 <MohammadAG> you need to killall hildon*
Nov 26 13:55:38 <DocScrutinizer> duh
Nov 26 13:56:11 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: I'll put you on the list too ;)
Nov 26 13:56:17 <DocScrutinizer> feel tempted to google hildon
Nov 26 13:56:19 <alterego> I've got three people, should probably be enough.
Nov 26 13:56:25 <alterego> 4 inc me.
Nov 26 13:57:05 <lcuk> alterego, open source, open testing?
Nov 26 13:57:12 <alterego> closed source, closed testing :P
Nov 26 13:58:00 <alterego> But I like you, and you've been benificial, so you can be a tester too if you like ;)
Nov 26 14:07:31 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: could you do again a ps for me? Is it normal to have two hildon-status-menu, hildon-home and hildon-desktop running?
Nov 26 14:07:55 <yacc> Guess so, the pids are always N and N+1, so I guess all these do internally fork.
Nov 26 14:09:51 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Nov 26 14:11:18 <yacc> So control-panel still says it cannot play because something else is using the device, ...
Nov 26 14:12:30 <Shapeshifter> man it's annoying that people always put their guides in some random forum thread instead of editing the wiki...
Nov 26 14:12:52 <Shapeshifter> this is a problem so specific to the maemo 'community'.
Nov 26 14:14:36 * MohammadAG opens thread about pulseaudio on tmo, expects no replies
Nov 26 14:17:40 <MohammadAG> Shapeshifter, indeed
Nov 26 14:19:40 <BCMM> Shapeshifter: yeah, i was surprised by how much it seems to revolve around the forum
Nov 26 14:19:58 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: I guess you rebooted?
Nov 26 14:20:12 <BCMM> when every other project i pay attention to has something like an IRC channel, a wiki, and a bugzilla
Nov 26 14:21:52 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: wiki and IRC are not exactly troll compatible
Nov 26 14:22:18 <BCMM> do you mean aren't troll-proof, or aren't good for trolling?
Nov 26 14:22:35 <DocScrutinizer> bugzilla in fact kinda is, but there's a harsh moderation :-P
Nov 26 14:22:51 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: nope, but now I'm completely baffled because the phone app can access the sound devices to make a call.
Nov 26 14:22:59 <DocScrutinizer> I mean trolls don't like them
Nov 26 14:23:27 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: praise PA
Nov 26 14:23:42 <yacc> In "unsupported" system-mode ;)
Nov 26 14:24:01 <yacc> So Nokia took that on them to support themselves, but yes, PA is usually a PITA.
Nov 26 14:24:02 <DocScrutinizer> I get lags of up to WEEKS(!!) for desktop event sounds, on my PA enabled laptop
Nov 26 14:24:18 <yacc> WEEKS?
Nov 26 14:25:02 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: what?
Nov 26 14:25:12 <BCMM> you mean it actually plays a sound several weeks later?
Nov 26 14:25:32 <DocScrutinizer> not several but more than 7 days sometimes, yes
Nov 26 14:25:42 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: wow
Nov 26 14:26:50 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Although when I send a SMS once to a collegue in Australia, he got it 2 weeks later too. (And came online in emergency mode because the SMS alerted him to the fact that the production servers are down. Well had been down two weeks earlier).
Nov 26 14:27:15 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
Nov 26 14:27:18 <alterego> Heh
Nov 26 14:28:13 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, there's no guaranteed time to delivery for SMS
Nov 26 14:28:40 <DocScrutinizer> there's just a timeOUT you can set for SMS
Nov 26 14:29:04 <DocScrutinizer> SMS never meant to be a realtime thing, just like mail
Nov 26 14:29:24 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: yeah, although there is a "timeout" functionality, where you can set how long delivery trials should be done. OTOH, most modern phones do not know how to set this property.
Nov 26 14:29:53 <DocScrutinizer> :nod: :-/
Nov 26 14:30:10 <alterego> Bloody apt-worker ruining my development.
Nov 26 14:30:29 <DocScrutinizer> eh?
Nov 26 14:30:43 <DocScrutinizer> is it rewriting your code?
Nov 26 14:31:04 <alterego> No, stops me installing my packages.
Nov 26 14:31:19 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Nov 26 14:31:38 <DocScrutinizer> heuristic QA
Nov 26 14:32:24 <DocScrutinizer> does it install a "****" icon instead?
Nov 26 14:34:29 * DocScrutinizer ponders a patch to HAM that replaces random installs by installing a ">>BEEP<<" pkg instead :-D
Nov 26 14:37:22 <DocScrutinizer> duh, and my paperweight app for OVI needs some work :-D
Nov 26 14:38:13 * DocScrutinizer feeling so Friday. Any other BS to invent?
Nov 26 14:39:51 <alterego> Heh
Nov 26 14:40:01 <DocScrutinizer> maybe a server with a blacklist holding (user, regex) tuples, for HAM to look up for user names that aren't allowed to install packages matching regex. Mad usefull to deal with tmo lemmings
Nov 26 14:40:20 <BCMM> hehe
Nov 26 14:40:30 <alterego> Where does HAM get usernames from though? :P
Nov 26 14:41:10 <DocScrutinizer> that's the trick
Nov 26 14:41:32 <chem|st> maehehhe I think I am in need of some new soldering coil for smd... one volume button does not work not even after proper cleaning
Nov 26 14:41:41 <DocScrutinizer> messaging, mail, a few other config data to skim
Nov 26 14:42:01 <CableTwitch> You knackered your volume rocker?
Nov 26 14:42:25 <alterego> I should probably come up with a better way to store GPS telemetry ..
Nov 26 14:42:26 <chem|st> CableTwitch: 0.5L wheat-beer-coke mix direct hit
Nov 26 14:43:02 <CableTwitch> Wow. Are you competing with MohammadAG to see who can wreck their device fastest? ;O)
Nov 26 14:43:49 <CableTwitch> (I'm winning, btw... I'll be on my 3rd when it gets back from the Nokia Wrecking Shop)
Nov 26 14:43:51 <alterego> Actually, maybe I Don't.
Nov 26 14:44:11 <BCMM> alterego: better than what?
Nov 26 14:44:36 <alterego> Well, I've created a TelemetryModel which inherits QAbstractTableModel
Nov 26 14:44:50 <alterego> Which basically stores positional information in a QList
Nov 26 14:44:52 <chem|st> CableTwitch: my first... no scratch no nothing but a glass of beer in 11month...
Nov 26 14:45:49 <chem|st> CableTwitch: and I am not that carefull but my last phone survived 3 years without a scratch on the display and I opened up bottles with it
Nov 26 14:46:16 <alterego> I should do some load tests ..
Nov 26 14:46:30 <CableTwitch> See, opening bottles with an N900? Thats not a good thing to be doing ;O)
Nov 26 14:47:52 <chem|st> CableTwitch: it survived the beer attack pretty good, first the display was always on then the button started to tinker and so on everything back to normal but a few days ago the button refused to work anymore
Nov 26 14:48:16 <BCMM> alterego: also, what are you using telemetry for?
Nov 26 14:48:25 <BCMM> are you building an n900-based UAV?
Nov 26 14:48:50 <alterego> BCMM: storing positional and lock information for rendering to my widgets.
Nov 26 14:48:58 <alterego> Like the trackview
Nov 26 14:49:09 <alterego> And the accuracy graph.
Nov 26 14:49:16 <chem|st> CableTwitch: I was thinking of modifying the back with a hardened aluminium frame to have it as universal bottle opener (actual idea was a plug'n'play carmount but that looks just like a bottleopener)
Nov 26 14:49:17 <alterego> Basically all the widgets that display historical information :P
Nov 26 14:49:20 <BCMM> alterego: are you using a different meaning of telemetry than i expect?
Nov 26 14:49:29 <BCMM> chem|st: i choose to read that as "bear attack"
Nov 26 14:49:38 <chem|st> ehehe
Nov 26 14:49:40 <alterego> BCMM: probably.
Nov 26 14:49:50 <alterego> I'm talking about GPS positional data.
Nov 26 14:50:19 <BCMM> alterego: telemetry would usually be remote collection of data
Nov 26 14:50:21 <chem|st> BCMM: once I got the replacement I may try the wheely and after that the bear attack
Nov 26 14:50:26 <CableTwitch> "Modify the bear attack"...
Nov 26 14:50:41 <BCMM> alterego: e.g. GPS position of a scientific balloon or something
Nov 26 14:50:43 <alterego> BCMM: yes, you're right.
Nov 26 14:50:54 <alterego> BCMM: I do stream over UDP or TCP/IP ;)
Nov 26 14:51:01 <BCMM> chem|st: wouldn't an aluminium backplate wear down the other bit of the plastic body where it made contact?
Nov 26 14:51:17 <alterego> But yes, this is a local issue.
Nov 26 14:51:18 <BCMM> alterego: you're turning the n900 into a GPS bug?
Nov 26 14:51:42 <alterego> BCMM: no my app can just be used as a bluetooth or network connected GPS.
Nov 26 14:51:51 <BCMM> i think i see
Nov 26 14:51:56 <alterego> It has that capability built on top of its' data logging.
Nov 26 14:51:59 <alterego> (logs to file too)
Nov 26 14:52:09 <BCMM> oh, you could use the n900 like a bluetooth GPS adaptor for a PC?
Nov 26 14:52:18 <alterego> BCMM: exactly,
Nov 26 14:52:22 <BCMM> that's a good idea
Nov 26 14:52:35 <alterego> I'm testing with an N810 though ^.^
Nov 26 14:54:49 <MohammadAG> I'm gonna ask politely
Nov 26 14:54:55 <MohammadAG> WHO THE FUCK OPTIFIES LIBRARIES
Nov 26 14:55:04 <ShadowJK> why not
Nov 26 14:55:13 <ShadowJK> they take up space too :/
Nov 26 14:55:15 <alterego> MohammadAG: it would be fine, if they're in a "standard" location, like /opt/usr/lib
Nov 26 14:55:18 <alterego> and /opt/lib
Nov 26 14:55:25 <MohammadAG> cause i've been pulseaudio-less for a week because of it
Nov 26 14:55:35 <ShadowJK> /opt/maemo/lib :)
Nov 26 14:55:39 <MohammadAG> libflac8
Nov 26 14:56:11 <DocScrutinizer> err, so what?
Nov 26 14:56:19 <ShadowJK> oh nice, does that mean ogg-support has finally been optified? it eats so much space on / :(
Nov 26 14:56:26 <DocScrutinizer> who DOES NOT optify libraries?
Nov 26 14:56:40 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
Nov 26 14:56:40 <infobot> [optification] a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3
Nov 26 14:56:44 <MohammadAG> i have no idea, but pulseaudio doesn't start
Nov 26 14:57:32 <ShadowJK> I wish base os was /usr and on nand, and extra stuff in /usr/maemoorg/ or something, on emmc
Nov 26 14:57:49 <DocScrutinizer> so to me it seems the right question is: "WHO T F DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO OPTIFY CORRECTLY?"
Nov 26 14:59:29 <alterego> I'd say /usr on nand and /usr/local on emmc
Nov 26 14:59:32 <alterego> Makes more sense ..
Nov 26 14:59:42 <alterego> (at least to me)
Nov 26 14:59:43 <GAN900> I don't think many people are being polite here. :P
Nov 26 14:59:55 <ShadowJK> it's okay, MeeGo is going to be on emmc/sd only, so then we either need devices with 1-2gig ram, or go on a massive microsdhc treasurehunt trying to find one that's fast (and class rating sucks)
Nov 26 14:59:59 <CableTwitch> This is unusual how?
Nov 26 15:00:18 <ShadowJK> alterego, yeah that'd be fine too
Nov 26 15:00:41 <CableTwitch> Mo, did you manage to find any RAM modules that would work with the 900?
Nov 26 15:01:01 <CableTwitch> I'd be interested in seeing how viable a self-service upgrade to system memory could be.
Nov 26 15:01:07 <ShadowJK> well the ram is soldered onto the cpu
Nov 26 15:01:18 <X-Fade> CableTwitch: Forget about it, really.
Nov 26 15:01:27 <CableTwitch> Yeah, I kinda forgot about that bit... XD
Nov 26 15:01:54 <MohammadAG> CableTwitch, nope
Nov 26 15:02:02 <alterego> USB is faster than WiFi right?
Nov 26 15:02:06 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: what's the use of having /usr on NAND? o.O
Nov 26 15:02:11 <MohammadAG> CableTwitch, and if I did, I won't replace it
Nov 26 15:02:15 <CableTwitch> I forget... is the CPU BGA?
Nov 26 15:02:17 <ajf_> I'm on Vodafone UK and I upgraded to PR 1.3, since then my phone keeps losing signal and needs a reboot to get it back. Has anyone heard of this?
Nov 26 15:02:19 <SpeedEvil> USB may or may not be faster than wifi
Nov 26 15:02:19 <GAN900> If you're good at BGA soldering you can source PoPs for reasonable prices in lots of 1000.
Nov 26 15:02:20 <MohammadAG> alterego, yes, should be
Nov 26 15:02:23 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: because it's quicker for system stuff?
Nov 26 15:02:30 <GAN900> CableTwitch, CPU and the PoP
Nov 26 15:02:37 <CableTwitch> Yay
Nov 26 15:02:44 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: irrelevant
Nov 26 15:02:47 <ShadowJK> Yeah, want to be able to page in the phone UI faster :)
Nov 26 15:02:47 <alterego> SpeedEvil: say a USB 2 memory stick or hard drive and data transfer over WiFi
Nov 26 15:03:00 <SpeedEvil> alterego: USB will usually be faster
Nov 26 15:03:05 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: how is a justification irrelevant?
Nov 26 15:03:25 <alterego> O_o
Nov 26 15:03:35 <alterego> Why don't you come up with a reason against it.
Nov 26 15:04:17 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: FHS isn't for anybody and his dog inventing random new schemes. Learn to do proper system architecture
Nov 26 15:04:41 <alterego> O_O
Nov 26 15:04:47 <alterego> What is that supposed to mean?
Nov 26 15:04:53 <ShadowJK> I guess we'll go back to /opt/vendor/ then
Nov 26 15:05:21 <alterego>  /usr is for core applications and /usr/local is for system wide installed applications
Nov 26 15:05:36 <alterego> (by the sysadmin)
Nov 26 15:05:41 <alterego> Which in this case is the user.
Nov 26 15:05:52 <ShadowJK> I prefer NetBSD's /usr for system, /usr/local for things you compile yourself, /usr/pkg for things from packag tree :-)
Nov 26 15:05:57 <alterego> To me, it seems better to use /usr/local than have a load of /opt/blah directories
Nov 26 15:06:07 <alterego> At least then we can have a consistent entry in ld.so.conf
Nov 26 15:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> and tbh I happily rade in 20% speed loss on accessing /usr (and *only* on accessing /usr) for that mindboggling optification
Nov 26 15:06:27 <MohammadAG> Back to the original problem :P
Nov 26 15:06:39 <MohammadAG> /opt isn't ready when pulseaudio starts
Nov 26 15:06:49 <chem|st> BCMM: so what? the backpanel is about 20€ but why would it wear down?
Nov 26 15:06:50 <MohammadAG> thus, an optified library won't work
Nov 26 15:07:03 <MohammadAG> libflac8 shouldn't be opified
Nov 26 15:07:12 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: unneccesarry.
Nov 26 15:07:16 <ShadowJK> submit bugreport against pulseaudio :D
Nov 26 15:07:21 <alterego> We can have both
Nov 26 15:07:33 <alterego> A sane architecture and the performance we have now.
Nov 26 15:08:10 <Venemo_N900> why does modest have to be such a piece o' crap?
Nov 26 15:08:10 <alterego> /usr/local over /opt just seems more intuitive to me, I don't know why they didn't do it.
Nov 26 15:08:13 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, why not against libflac8
Nov 26 15:08:23 <ShadowJK> I never understood why all the linuxen are mixing system packages and user installed packages anyway, though it hasn't ever had a well defined system border either, except on things like meego and maemo
Nov 26 15:08:34 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: then the library is ill placed. It has to go to /lib then, rather than /usr/lib
Nov 26 15:08:46 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, because / is precious
Nov 26 15:09:39 <Venemo_N900> hi guys
Nov 26 15:09:41 <MohammadAG> 300K	/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 seriously...
Nov 26 15:09:50 <MohammadAG> it's only 300k
Nov 26 15:10:03 <Venemo_N900> what's up?
Nov 26 15:10:12 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, pulseaudio loads from /usr/bin, obviously, /usr/lib is there when it starts
Nov 26 15:10:16 <MohammadAG> hey Venemo_N900
Nov 26 15:10:39 <Venemo_N900> hello MohammadAG :)
Nov 26 15:10:40 <alterego> brb
Nov 26 15:10:55 <ShadowJK> that's a cool strategy, split something up into 100 libraries and say "it's just 300k" for evrry one :)  (this is actually the reason why ogg-support has gigantic / use)
Nov 26 15:11:09 * Venemo_N900 is on a train again
Nov 26 15:11:27 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: so which noob moved a lib to /opt generically, without proper symlink from /usr/lib?
Nov 26 15:11:45 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: what you say doesn't make sense to me
Nov 26 15:12:01 <MohammadAG> it is symlinked, but /opt won't be ready at that time so the symlinks is pointless
Nov 26 15:12:12 <MohammadAG> and the maintainer is mikkov
Nov 26 15:12:36 <DocScrutinizer> and the definition of /usr is it gets mounted later
Nov 26 15:13:18 <MohammadAG> and /opt gets mounted even after that
Nov 26 15:13:24 <DocScrutinizer> so anything needing stuff prior to mounting /usr needs to go to the corresponding root directories
Nov 26 15:13:41 * chem|st likes dependencies based boot
Nov 26 15:14:19 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: you're arguing with "we did that bad thing, so we now should tweak all pkg to make use of it"
Nov 26 15:14:49 <MohammadAG> huh? what?
Nov 26 15:15:30 <DocScrutinizer> read FHS
Nov 26 15:15:35 <MohammadAG> i'm just saying libflac8 shouldn't be optified
Nov 26 15:15:43 <DocScrutinizer> understand what's the rationale behind /usr
Nov 26 15:15:56 <MohammadAG> pulseaudio is started BEFORE /opt is mounted
Nov 26 15:16:39 <chem|st> MohammadAG: then make it mount earlier
Nov 26 15:16:53 <chem|st> it is dumb setup anyways
Nov 26 15:16:59 <DocScrutinizer> And I told you /opt is irrelevant, as it's really /usr that shouldn't be used before it gets mounted. Nobody cares about maemo that didn't understand that and instead invented optification
Nov 26 15:17:01 <MohammadAG> yeah, and wait for a new PR
Nov 26 15:17:43 <DocScrutinizer> so if PA is started early it has to go to /bin /lib /sbin etc, NOT to their /usr/* counterparts
Nov 26 15:18:07 <MohammadAG> PA is started from /usr/bin...
Nov 26 15:18:19 <MohammadAG> /usr would be mounted duh
Nov 26 15:18:19 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: afair my debian does mount anything itself if in fstab on auto etc if called earlier than normal
Nov 26 15:18:21 <DocScrutinizer> SO WHAT???!!! THIS IS WROOOOONG
Nov 26 15:18:35 <DocScrutinizer> MEH!
Nov 26 15:19:10 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: had a booze night yesterday, or what?
Nov 26 15:19:15 <MohammadAG> I think we can both agree it shouldn't be in /opt with a symlink in /usr/lib
Nov 26 15:20:02 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: did you mean /usr should not be used before /opt is mounted?
Nov 26 15:20:07 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: irrelevant
Nov 26 15:20:21 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, no, I have 20 missed calls and 10 silent ones because of a damn lib that shouldn't be optified
Nov 26 15:20:32 <DocScrutinizer> the definition of /usr is it MUST NOT be used for system relevant and early things
Nov 26 15:20:58 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: pulse is not system relevant...
Nov 26 15:21:08 <DocScrutinizer> but early
Nov 26 15:21:24 <chem|st> true
Nov 26 15:21:31 <DocScrutinizer> vim also isn't system relevant
Nov 26 15:21:37 <chem|st> actualy the call isn't that early...
Nov 26 15:21:39 <MohammadAG> pa is started after /usr is mounted and before /opt is mounted
Nov 26 15:21:41 <DocScrutinizer> read FHS
Nov 26 15:21:54 <MohammadAG> regardless, the module should not be optified
Nov 26 15:22:14 <DocScrutinizer> obviously as it MUST NOT go into /usr
Nov 26 15:22:20 <chem|st> MohammadAG: it should be but /opt should be mounted before any /usr call
Nov 26 15:22:24 <DocScrutinizer> if they want to use it early
Nov 26 15:22:24 <nicolai> the interesting question is, why does pulse needs libflac.
Nov 26 15:22:58 <MohammadAG> nicolai, ldd shows that it's tied to it
Nov 26 15:23:01 <DocScrutinizer> nicolai: ++
Nov 26 15:23:33 <nicolai> yes, but after reflashing with pr 1.3. ldd shows it isnt tied to it
Nov 26 15:23:39 <MohammadAG> 	libFLAC.so.8 => /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8 (0x4060a000)
Nov 26 15:23:41 <chem|st> the bloating pulseaudio setup of nokia is pissing me off anyway
Nov 26 15:24:01 <MohammadAG> nicolai, err, what?
Nov 26 15:24:10 <MohammadAG> so something is replacing pulseaudio?
Nov 26 15:24:11 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: congrats, now we're two
Nov 26 15:24:33 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: since march...
Nov 26 15:24:54 <chem|st> MohammadAG: properly using pulse would be one idea
Nov 26 15:24:59 <DocScrutinizer> I wouldn't be surprised to find that being a side effect in powerkernel (libflac)
Nov 26 15:25:36 <alterego> Hrm ..
Nov 26 15:25:50 <chem|st> there is no need for a systemwide daemon running
Nov 26 15:26:24 <alterego> Why does dbus go through the roof when I use it in Qt?!
Nov 26 15:26:31 <DocScrutinizer> >>titan: "Duh, why not include a few nice codecs to PA by default?!"
Nov 26 15:26:33 <Venemo_N900> hopefully they'll get it right in MeeGo
Nov 26 15:26:51 <chem|st> the only thing why pulse is needed that early is the damn hands movie
Nov 26 15:26:52 <DocScrutinizer> they won't
Nov 26 15:26:54 <Khertan> <chem|st> the bloating pulseaudio setup of nokia is pissing me off anyway <<< the ubuntu one is worse :)
Nov 26 15:27:09 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: yep
Nov 26 15:27:13 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: why won't they?
Nov 26 15:27:33 <DocScrutinizer> meego is adopting PA
Nov 26 15:28:03 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: well there is nothing wrong with PA itself
Nov 26 15:28:09 <chem|st> Khertan: I knew there are a lot of reasons why I do not use buntu distros - it adds to it
Nov 26 15:28:12 <DocScrutinizer> orly?
Nov 26 15:28:18 <Venemo_N900> lots of desktop distros use it too
Nov 26 15:28:44 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, screwit damn #@@!?%&/
Nov 26 15:29:02 <chem|st> Venemo_N900: there is a lot wrong with pulse if you set it --system
Nov 26 15:29:25 <Khertan> chem|st, :) yep but i've still problem with my pulseaudio conf ... without using ubuntu :) but hem ... i can only blame myself
Nov 26 15:29:30 <DocScrutinizer> because of some ****** shoving that PA shit down everybodies throat
Nov 26 15:29:51 <corecode> anybody hacked the mail client to store sent mail on imap?
Nov 26 15:29:59 <chem|st> Khertan: Venemo_N900: and on my desktop I am fighting aswell but with my own setup from hell
Nov 26 15:30:09 <Venemo_N900> heh
Nov 26 15:30:30 <chem|st> MohammadAG: make pulse die after startup movie might help
Nov 26 15:30:35 <Khertan> chem|st, i ve try to setup myself after just installing debian core
Nov 26 15:31:16 <Venemo_N900> why not simply mount the necessary stuff earlier?
Nov 26 15:31:19 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: MohammadAG: you should listen carefully to what nicolai said
Nov 26 15:31:37 <chem|st> Khertan: welcome to the jungle
Nov 26 15:32:00 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: you mean the "why does it need" part?
Nov 26 15:32:24 <DocScrutinizer> more the >><nicolai> yes, but after reflashing with pr 1.3. ldd shows it isnt tied to it<< part
Nov 26 15:32:35 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, tell us how you REALLY feel.
Nov 26 15:32:52 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: huh?
Nov 26 15:33:14 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: it is called at that point anyway if MohammadAG isn't on his other phone...
Nov 26 15:33:49 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: sorry, you lost me
Nov 26 15:34:46 <corecode> what do you suggest, maemo sdk+, or just plain maemo 5 sdk from nokia?
Nov 26 15:34:48 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: thought he got two phones one at PR1.2 and another 1.3
Nov 26 15:35:05 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: nvm
Nov 26 15:35:06 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG? not afaik
Nov 26 15:35:13 <Khertan> chem|st, maybe i should try an working out of the box distribution ...
Nov 26 15:35:21 <Khertan> chem|st, but based on debian :)
Nov 26 15:35:26 <MohammadAG> nope, not me
Nov 26 15:35:37 <Khertan> chem|st, linux mint seems a good candidate
Nov 26 15:35:48 <chem|st> Khertan: what do you mean, own distro or use a OOTB one?
Nov 26 15:36:00 <chem|st> Khertan: depends on the device you are using
Nov 26 15:36:13 <DocScrutinizer> I'd suggest a mass poll on ldd PA, vs stock or power kernel
Nov 26 15:36:17 <chem|st> Khertan: and expectations you got
Nov 26 15:36:41 <DocScrutinizer> I suspect a flaw in power kernel config
Nov 26 15:37:23 <Khertan> chem|st, device will be a core i5 4gb ram sys on ssd , something fast, pyqt, pidgin, quot libet, firefox and libnotification :)
Nov 26 15:37:31 <Khertan> and virtualbox :)
Nov 26 15:37:47 <Khertan> not really complicated ... something that all distrib can provide :)
Nov 26 15:38:31 <chem|st> Khertan: I was one of the earliest to adopt debian on a sammy nc10 (2 weeks after release in europe) fully supported, 3 month later linux mint worked OOTB...
Nov 26 15:38:52 <chem|st> Khertan: so a desktop plugnpray machine
Nov 26 15:39:26 <Khertan> chem|st, hum ... i used debian squeeze with xfce + tint2 on my samsung n130 :)
Nov 26 15:39:53 <Venemo_N900> corecode: what is maemo sdk+ ?
Nov 26 15:39:57 <Khertan> chem|st, plugandpray ? why ?
Nov 26 15:40:31 <Khertan> chem|st, i ve verified that all mainboard chipset are supported by the current squeeze version of debian :)=
Nov 26 15:40:47 <Khertan> (audio, network, usb ...)
Nov 26 15:40:54 <chem|st> Khertan: squeeze + ion3, pray as I got a 50:50 chance of melting something when I hotplug pciE cards ;)
Nov 26 15:41:43 <chem|st> Khertan: sure... mint is debian derived
Nov 26 15:42:29 <Khertan> did you hotplug pciE cards everyday ?
Nov 26 15:42:58 <chem|st> Khertan: no just for several hours several times
Nov 26 15:43:28 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: what was it you wanted me to tell you?
Nov 26 15:43:49 <chem|st> compared cube and physics performance of nvidia cards and raidcontrollers
Nov 26 15:44:13 <chem|st> fried one...
Nov 26 15:44:32 <Khertan> chem|st, ;) ... i think i didn't plug or unplug something on my pc since april 2010
Nov 26 15:44:33 <Khertan> :)
Nov 26 15:45:17 <chem|st> Khertan: just some hours ago I had my n900 fully dissected
Nov 26 15:45:31 <Khertan> but the main question is why using mint instead of debian ... as it s just a derivated ... i didn't see the added value
Nov 26 15:46:05 <chem|st> uh mint is just no hassle! I prefer pure debian
Nov 26 15:46:41 <chem|st> mint is like "put it on a stick and boot, copy it on disk and reboot without stick!"
Nov 26 15:46:55 <chem|st> system ready...
Nov 26 15:48:29 <Venemo_N900> the question is, why did the authors of mint start their own distro instead of contributing to Debian?
Nov 26 15:49:04 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, sorry, I forgot the sarcasm tags. *g*
Nov 26 15:49:37 <DocScrutinizer> though those wouldn't help me to understand what you were referring to
Nov 26 15:50:42 <Khertan> Venemo_N900, yep ... also
Nov 26 15:50:49 <DocScrutinizer> NFC what you meant to say
Nov 26 15:51:05 <chem|st> Venemo_N900: most start because of the restrictive upstream management, the goal fro debian is to create a ultra-rock-solid-server distribution and so is the management
Nov 26 15:51:27 <yacc> Wonder, is there any documentation on the boot process of the n900?
Nov 26 15:51:41 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, was addressing your anger about Nokia this morning. ;)
Nov 26 15:51:47 <Venemo_N900> chem|st: ok so then there is ubuntu
Nov 26 15:51:58 <DocScrutinizer> me? angry about Nokia?
Nov 26 15:52:02 <Venemo_N900> chem|st: they could've contributed to that too
Nov 26 15:52:09 <RST38h> GAN900: Have you been promising Doc pink unicorns, online? =)
Nov 26 15:52:13 <DocScrutinizer> not more than usual
Nov 26 15:52:26 <chem|st> Venemo_N900: religion?
Nov 26 15:52:50 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: [citation needed]
Nov 26 15:52:51 <Venemo_N900> chem|st: maybe
Nov 26 15:53:15 <Venemo_N900> chem|st: but I still think it is ridiculous
Nov 26 15:53:37 <chem|st> 170+ distributions is ridiculous!
Nov 26 15:54:37 <Venemo_N900> chem|st: indeed
Nov 26 15:55:16 <chem|st> I understand the common 15-20 but the rest... waste of space
Nov 26 15:55:18 <alterego> Looks like I've crashed Xorg ..
Nov 26 15:55:30 <Venemo_N900> chem|st: although I do not agree with it, I can understand why people do it
Nov 26 15:55:44 <chem|st> 2nd
Nov 26 15:55:46 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, nuke *buntu and we are rid of some of the more annoying ones ;-P
Nov 26 15:55:58 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: for example
Nov 26 15:56:39 <Khertan> chem|st, and what did you think of using ssd ? does there is a real performance improve or not by using it for / but not /home and swap ?
Nov 26 15:57:53 <chem|st> Khertan: mainly useless, faster boot, all relevant stuff is in RAM anyway so performance you get for starting stuff but not for running stuff
Nov 26 15:58:19 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: ++
Nov 26 15:58:20 <MohammadAG_> hmm, how do I get a USB headset working on maemo?
Nov 26 15:58:21 <Khertan> (small ssd 32Go but Read: Up to 280 MB/s and write 170Mbs)
Nov 26 15:58:36 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: with the right drivers?
Nov 26 15:58:49 <MohammadAG_> other than those?
Nov 26 15:59:05 <chem|st> Khertan: so what? I would like to have that for my 2TB data partition
Nov 26 15:59:08 <Khertan> chem|st, hum ... as it s arround 100Euros ... maybe i should go for 8Gb of ram instead of 4Gb for same price
Nov 26 16:00:04 <chem|st> I dont care about slow startup of a program as I leave everything open, so fast swap with about 4GB is just enough
Nov 26 16:00:36 <chem|st> Khertan: RAM I buy as much as the MB supports...
Nov 26 16:01:23 <chem|st> Khertan: having a DVD cached in RAM while watching/burning/resampling etc. is a key feat.
Nov 26 16:02:57 <DocScrutinizer> chem|st: ++
Nov 26 16:02:59 <chem|st> Khertan: swap is only 4GB as it only swaps if realy needed, hibernate goes to swapfile somewhere
Nov 26 16:03:14 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: you agree alot today ;)
Nov 26 16:04:27 <chem|st> Khertan: / is on my slowest disk /data is on my most energy efficient and /home on my fastest...
Nov 26 16:04:30 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, I probably should throttle posting such noise
Nov 26 16:05:09 <chem|st> DocScrutinizer: nope it is good the see that people agree on things I am normaly fighting for
Nov 26 16:06:16 <yacc> Ah, anyone got an idea how the boot process inside maemo5 works? Googling turns up many pages related to installing MeeGo, Android, but not much related to things that happen after the kernel takes over.
Nov 26 16:06:20 <chem|st> Khertan: I loose about 30MB/s just because of encryption...
Nov 26 16:06:43 <chem|st> have a nice weekend ppl
Nov 26 16:06:53 <Venemo_N900> chem|st: you too :)
Nov 26 16:07:19 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: a bit. ask specific questions
Nov 26 16:07:39 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: I'm still on my pulseaudio does not start problem.
Nov 26 16:08:03 <DocScrutinizer> read backscroll, seems MohammadAG_ has found a cause
Nov 26 16:08:23 <Venemo_N900> yacc: does 'start pulseaudio' as root solve it? it does for me most of the time
Nov 26 16:08:51 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: power kernel?
Nov 26 16:08:59 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: The interesting part is that I cannot start pulseaudio (stopping because it's respawning to fast) after booting the device, but later (no idea how much later, I admit) I can start it.
Nov 26 16:09:12 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: And no, I have the stock kernel, no power kernel for me.
Nov 26 16:10:05 <Khertan> chem|st, thanks, you too
Nov 26 16:10:29 <DocScrutinizer> try starting PA directly, with the exact line that's used normaly as a parameter to dsme-tool im /etc/events.d
Nov 26 16:11:02 <DocScrutinizer> see if you can get any meaningful output or syslog
Nov 26 16:13:04 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: nope, stock kernel here
Nov 26 16:13:52 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: still PA doesn't start in 50% of time
Nov 26 16:14:46 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: in most cases, I can start it with 'start pulseaudio', and it the crap upstart says "respawning too fast", then a reboot usually fixes it
Nov 26 16:15:16 <DocScrutinizer> umm, for PA upstart does "respawn" no dsme-tool involved o.O
Nov 26 16:15:54 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: respawning too fast isn't any useful an errormsg
Nov 26 16:16:24 <DocScrutinizer> it just indicates PA has quit and was restarted by upstart several times
Nov 26 16:16:35 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: afaik it is a bug in Maemo's Upstart that it says this when it's in a bad mood
Nov 26 16:16:44 <DocScrutinizer> it doesn't tell WHY PA quits
Nov 26 16:16:52 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: indeed
Nov 26 16:17:06 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: That's from now when pa does start: http://pastebin.com/bSL0ACCd
Nov 26 16:17:50 <yacc> Venemo_N900, actually the respawning too fast happens for me after a reboot and goes away after some time.
Nov 26 16:18:07 <Venemo_N900> what I'm saying is that Upstart randomly gives this message for other stuff too
Nov 26 16:18:42 <Venemo_N900> we would need to find out why PA doesn't start in the first place
Nov 26 16:19:19 <DocScrutinizer>  E: voice-sidetone.c: Cannot open /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_enable  -- looks odd
Nov 26 16:19:21 <alterego> upstart does that because it's shit.
Nov 26 16:19:39 <alterego> I've had so much hassle trying to get daemons running in upstart with that lame message.
Nov 26 16:19:56 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: ???
Nov 26 16:20:03 <alterego> There was actually a bug in the version of upstart used in maemo that caused that issue,
Nov 26 16:20:11 <alterego> Don't know if it was fixed.
Nov 26 16:20:19 <DocScrutinizer> ticket#?
Nov 26 16:20:23 <alterego> It's a known upstream problem anyway.
Nov 26 16:21:19 <alterego> No idea.
Nov 26 16:21:23 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: ^
Nov 26 16:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> doesn't sound convincing to me
Nov 26 16:22:28 <DocScrutinizer> see /etc/event.d/pulseaudio, last line: >>respawn
Nov 26 16:23:06 <DocScrutinizer> So I tend to think upstart restarts PA as PA is segfaulting or otherwise quiting
Nov 26 16:23:48 <MohammadAG_> yacc, copy the lib in /opt to /usr/lib
Nov 26 16:23:56 <DocScrutinizer> if this happens too often, upstart is supposed to throw error "respawning too fast" -- init does same for respawning processes in inittab
Nov 26 16:24:01 <MohammadAG_> and i wasn't the one who found the solution
Nov 26 16:24:44 <alterego> I could really do with another N900 :/
Nov 26 16:25:04 <MohammadAG_> cp /opt/maemo/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 yacc
Nov 26 16:25:05 <yacc> That's from when start pulseaudio complains about respawning: http://pastebin.com/KTCsW5EE
Nov 26 16:25:24 <MohammadAG_> yacc do that and reboot, pa will work just fine
Nov 26 16:25:33 <yacc> MohammadAG: how so?
Nov 26 16:25:54 <yacc> Ah.
Nov 26 16:26:04 <yacc> opt is not yet mounted when pa tries to start first time?
Nov 26 16:26:12 <MohammadAG_> yeah
Nov 26 16:26:16 <yacc> usr/lib is a symlink to opt
Nov 26 16:26:21 <MohammadAG_> (sometimes it is, that's why it wokrs 1% of the time)
Nov 26 16:26:25 <MohammadAG_> works*
Nov 26 16:26:29 <MohammadAG_> yep
Nov 26 16:26:53 <Venemo_N900> well Upstart does that awful message for 'start sticky-notes' too sometimes... so... alterego is right, this is an upstart bug
Nov 26 16:26:54 <MohammadAG_> err, not /usr/lib
Nov 26 16:26:54 <MohammadAG_> /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0
Nov 26 16:27:25 <yacc> MohammadAG: I know, I meant /usr/lib/libFLAC....
Nov 26 16:27:42 <MohammadAG_> yeah, that's a symlink, copy the file in /opt to overwrite it
Nov 26 16:27:54 <MohammadAG_> ~seen mikkov
Nov 26 16:28:01 <infobot> mikkov <~mikkov@xdsl-83-150-82-126.nebulazone.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 242d 18h 17m 26s ago, saying: 'http://ecoach.garage.maemo.org/'.
Nov 26 16:28:09 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: why just libflac? aren't there other libs on which it depends?
Nov 26 16:28:38 <MohammadAG> apparently, only that one is optified
Nov 26 16:29:01 <Venemo_N900> oh.
Nov 26 16:29:26 <yacc> MohammadAG: Does not fix it for me. I restarted (actually did echo b >/proc/sysrq*) and it still cannot play ringtones in the settings app.
Nov 26 16:29:53 <yacc> OTOH, pulseaudio is running, which is clearly an improvement.
Nov 26 16:30:14 <yacc> Where does upstart store the output of the executed commands?
Nov 26 16:30:29 <alterego> yacc: doesn't unless you tell it to
Nov 26 16:30:35 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: never blame a component to be buggy unless you have sound proof for what exactly is the bug
Nov 26 16:30:46 <yacc> alterego, how do I tell it?
Nov 26 16:31:18 <alterego> yacc learn upstart config and read the config file :)
Nov 26 16:31:32 <alterego> By default I don't think apps are created attached to a tty
Nov 26 16:31:50 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: sounds more like it
Nov 26 16:31:51 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: well I didn't research into it much
Nov 26 16:31:54 <MohammadAG_> alterego, is there a way to send a DBus signal when h-e-n enumerates something?
Nov 26 16:32:05 <MohammadAG_> well, when a Qt app does something in general
Nov 26 16:32:20 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: there is QtDbus
Nov 26 16:32:22 <alterego> MohammadAG_: yeah, QtDbus :P
Nov 26 16:32:24 <MohammadAG_> by sending a signal I mean sending my own signal for other apps to use it
Nov 26 16:32:48 <alterego> Yes
Nov 26 16:32:52 <alterego> Easy, as pie :P
Nov 26 16:32:53 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: it is totally possible with QtDbus
Nov 26 16:33:20 <MohammadAG_> would be nice to have an app that auto detects a mouse and activates the patched mouse driver + mouse pointer
Nov 26 16:33:27 <alterego> MohammadAG_: http://doc.trolltech.com/qq/qq20-dbus.html
Nov 26 16:33:32 <MohammadAG_> ty
Nov 26 16:33:40 <alterego> "Sending and Receiving"
Nov 26 16:34:04 <alterego> dbus is quite nice in Qt.
Nov 26 16:34:37 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qtdbus.html
Nov 26 16:34:40 <yacc> Any way to get ls to show not only the inode number but also the st_dev?
Nov 26 16:34:40 <DocScrutinizer> ok, seems we excluded powerkernel from the usual suspects. So I guess everybody who has this PA problem has the pkg advanced-audio-codecs (or similar) installed. I could imagine there's a bug in this pkg with linking some PA module that gets replaced to a lib that's optified
Nov 26 16:35:22 <MohammadAG_> removing one line in libflac8.postinst to not optify it would do wonders
Nov 26 16:35:48 <DocScrutinizer> which pkg is libflac8 ?
Nov 26 16:36:26 <MohammadAG_> libflac8 :)
Nov 26 16:36:31 <DocScrutinizer> bah
Nov 26 16:36:33 <MohammadAG_> decoders-support just depends on it
Nov 26 16:36:38 <DocScrutinizer> k
Nov 26 16:36:40 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: I have the "extra decoders support" installed, yes
Nov 26 16:36:54 <DocScrutinizer> check libflac8 of PR1.2
Nov 26 16:36:59 <DocScrutinizer> the pkg
Nov 26 16:37:04 <alterego> I've never had this issue ..
Nov 26 16:37:05 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, it's an extras package, can be fixed
Nov 26 16:37:15 <alterego> But I don't think I installed extra codec support this time round.
Nov 26 16:37:34 <MohammadAG_> would enumeration be better as a system bus signal or a session bus one?
Nov 26 16:37:35 <DocScrutinizer> check the module/lib that ld-depends on libflac8, in version of PR1.2
Nov 26 16:37:36 <Venemo_N900> alterego: be happy then :)
Nov 26 16:37:41 * MohammadAG_ votes system :)
Nov 26 16:37:49 <alterego> Q: My app has the option of screen keep-alive, should I, when my app is switched to background, inhibit that function if it's enabled?
Nov 26 16:38:01 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: prior to fixing we need to spot the bug
Nov 26 16:38:17 <alterego> So, my app will only keep alive the screen, if it's in the foreground and the option is enabled.
Nov 26 16:38:24 <DocScrutinizer> you found a botch workaround, but haven't yet dissected where the bug came in
Nov 26 16:38:45 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: I found you this: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/examples-dbus.html
Nov 26 16:39:04 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: probably because PA doesn't have mountfs as one of its' dependants.
Nov 26 16:39:09 <MohammadAG_> alterego, yes, that would be nice :)
Nov 26 16:39:23 <Venemo_N900> alterego: yes, you should
Nov 26 16:39:41 <DocScrutinizer> 2 possible causes: a) libflac8.postinst is buggy in PR1.3,  b) the binary that links in this libflac8 is buggy
Nov 26 16:39:43 <alterego> Yeah, done it, thought it'd probably be the sane choice ;)
Nov 26 16:39:46 <MohammadAG_> Venemo_N900, thanks :D
Nov 26 16:39:50 <Venemo_N900> alterego: or if you're not sure, place an additional option in your app whether to do so
Nov 26 16:39:56 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: that's also quite possible
Nov 26 16:40:07 * MohammadAG_ likes the chat example, would be nice to have a cross platform bluetooth messenger, classes are sometimes boring
Nov 26 16:40:19 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: if it's caused by mount happening too late, then that is the better solution I think.
Nov 26 16:40:20 <Venemo_N900> :)
Nov 26 16:40:31 <ShadowJK> alterego, yes that sounds sensible
Nov 26 16:40:37 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: why not just irc?
Nov 26 16:40:47 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Don't think so, because I just listed the st_dev and it's the same for all libraries referenced from /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/*.so :(
Nov 26 16:40:54 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: could be a sleeping bug since ages, that came up on PR1.3 with some timing changes / race
Nov 26 16:41:14 <alterego> Yeah,
Nov 26 16:41:26 <alterego> Do you want me to look at the upstart configs then? ;)
Nov 26 16:41:50 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: would you verify it fixes things, and then open a ticket with a proper patch attached?
Nov 26 16:42:03 <alterego> Well, I don't suffer the issue.
Nov 26 16:42:27 <MohammadAG_> Venemo_N900, cause my classmates don't use IRC :)
Nov 26 16:42:34 <Venemo_N900> alterego: try the extra decoders support and see if you suffer it then
Nov 26 16:42:45 <alterego> m'kay.
Nov 26 16:42:45 <DocScrutinizer> ok, so explain to moh and yacc and Venemo_N900 how to fix it proper, and they will happily verify
Nov 26 16:42:53 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: ^^
Nov 26 16:42:58 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: I meant #maemo :P
Nov 26 16:43:05 <alterego> I don't really want to suffer it thanks ;)
Nov 26 16:43:11 <alterego> I'll explain the fix and make a patch.
Nov 26 16:43:23 <alterego> If it seems to solve the issue then you can submit it.
Nov 26 16:43:33 <MohammadAG_> Venemo_N900, heh, I'm always on
Nov 26 16:43:47 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: :-D
Nov 26 16:44:19 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: huh, really?
Nov 26 16:44:27 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: how does your battery handle it?
Nov 26 16:44:41 * peb is gone. Gone since Fri Nov 26 15:14:00 2010
Nov 26 16:44:42 <MohammadAG_> Venemo_N900, well, I cracked the school's WEP so I don't need to worry about 3G
Nov 26 16:44:43 <yacc> lol, funny behaviour too: despite pulseaudio running, when the alarmclock wants to play an alarm all I get is a beep (could be also the first sub-second part of the ring tone, not sure).
Nov 26 16:44:59 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: lol :D
Nov 26 16:45:20 <MohammadAG_> yacc, you probably used /etc/event.d/pulseaudio to start pulseaudio right?
Nov 26 16:45:36 <MohammadAG_> I did that last week, make a call, it'll always go through the loudspeakers
Nov 26 16:45:44 <yacc> MohammadAG_, well, after the libFLAC fix it does start on boot, so yeah, I guess so.
Nov 26 16:45:48 <Venemo_N900> yacc: I haven't seen that bug yet, although I use the default alarm ringtone
Nov 26 16:45:50 <MohammadAG_> reboot fixed it
Nov 26 16:45:57 <MohammadAG_> ah, nvm then
Nov 26 16:46:11 * MohammadAG_ thinks he has seen most bugs around maemo :P
Nov 26 16:46:23 <alterego> Okay, it appears the fix is to add: start on stopped rcS-late to /etc/event.d/pulseaudio
Nov 26 16:46:40 <yacc> MohammadAG_: and despite that pa is running, the media player still says "cannot play, audio device is used by a different program"
Nov 26 16:47:00 <Venemo_N900> hmm
Nov 26 16:47:17 <yacc> alterego, add or replace the existing start on line?
Nov 26 16:47:24 <MohammadAG_> add it
Nov 26 16:47:27 <alterego> add it
Nov 26 16:47:34 <alterego> It needs to start after dbus too.
Nov 26 16:48:23 <yacc> Ok, rebooting.
Nov 26 16:49:14 <MohammadAG_> rebooting
Nov 26 16:49:15 <alterego> This may, however, stop the nokia tune from playing ..
Nov 26 16:49:27 <yacc> alterego, that's a bonus :)
Nov 26 16:49:31 <alterego> Heh
Nov 26 16:49:53 <MohammadAG_> (file moved back to /opt, symlinked again)
Nov 26 16:49:53 <MohammadAG_> I hope I haven't typod
Nov 26 16:49:56 <yacc> alterego, nothing as irritating to be unable to restart the phone without letting the whole room know.
Nov 26 16:49:57 <MohammadAG_> btw, reboot shuts down my device for some reason
Nov 26 16:50:20 <Jay_BEE> good (UGT) morning
Nov 26 16:50:25 <Venemo_N900> yacc: well you can always remove the hands movie entirely
Nov 26 16:50:32 <alterego> yacc: well, that's an easy fix: echo -n > /usr/share/whereever/that/avi/is.avi
Nov 26 16:50:39 <MohammadAG_> alterego, didn't work :)
Nov 26 16:50:48 <alterego> Interesting.
Nov 26 16:51:06 <alterego> So you still have the problem?
Nov 26 16:51:07 <Venemo_N900> there is an option in powatool that turns that movie of
Nov 26 16:51:22 <alterego> I installed a custom one.
Nov 26 16:51:23 <yacc> alterego, lol I think you can leave out the echo -n, the redirection on an empty command makes also an empty file.
Nov 26 16:51:48 <alterego> Oh, cool :P
Nov 26 16:51:53 <alterego> Learn something new every day ;)
Nov 26 16:52:00 <yacc> alterego, media player still tells me that something else is using the "sound device".
Nov 26 16:52:15 <Venemo_N900> yacc: hm, interesting
Nov 26 16:52:16 <MohammadAG_> instead of clearing the avi file, clear the config
Nov 26 16:52:27 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: agreed
Nov 26 16:52:29 <MohammadAG_> yacc, heh, had that one
Nov 26 16:52:34 <MohammadAG_> only fix was to reflash :)
Nov 26 16:52:40 <Venemo_N900> hm. is that avi optified at least?
Nov 26 16:52:44 <MohammadAG_> I think so
Nov 26 16:52:55 <MohammadAG_> lcuk, should know
Nov 26 16:53:18 <MohammadAG_> btw, why does mce sorta depend on pulseaudio for haptic feedback?
Nov 26 16:53:40 <yacc> MohammadAG_: that's not exactly a fix, that's a capitulation ;)
Nov 26 16:53:57 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: event.d/rcS-late:
Nov 26 16:54:02 <DocScrutinizer> script
Nov 26 16:54:03 <DocScrutinizer>     #mount /home; fix ext3 and retry mounting if 1st attempt fails
Nov 26 16:54:05 <DocScrutinizer>     mount_home ()
Nov 26 16:54:39 <alterego> bleurgh
Nov 26 16:54:41 <alterego> m'kay
Nov 26 16:55:09 <alterego> remote the -late
Nov 26 16:55:14 * MohammadAG_ has yet to figure out how to scroll to the bottom of a QTextBrowser/QTextEdit
Nov 26 16:55:16 <alterego> This might be the case
Nov 26 16:55:26 <alterego> try: start on stopped rcS
Nov 26 16:55:45 <Venemo_N900> MohammadAG_: #qt is a nice place
Nov 26 16:56:00 <alterego> #qt is full of trolls
Nov 26 16:56:14 * MohammadAG_ agrees ^
Nov 26 16:56:19 <Venemo_N900> yeah, literally :D
Nov 26 16:56:21 <Venemo_N900> lol
Nov 26 16:56:48 <yacc> Just tried it out, my ringtone is the same as the ringtone in the alarm clock, 4 very short weak beeps.
Nov 26 16:57:13 <alterego> yacc: do you want to try with the modification I just said?
Nov 26 16:57:21 <yacc> alterego, which one?
Nov 26 16:57:36 <yacc> alterego, start on rc late, that one is already in there and rebooted afterwards.
Nov 26 16:57:53 <yacc> alterego, the full way with pin request and all.
Nov 26 16:57:59 <alterego> start on stopped rcS
Nov 26 16:58:07 <alterego> (without -late)
Nov 26 16:58:37 <yacc> start on stopped rcS
Nov 26 16:58:42 <alterego> Yes
Nov 26 16:58:44 <yacc> Hope that's ok, reboot coming.
Nov 26 16:58:49 <alterego> :)
Nov 26 16:58:54 <alterego> It's okay for sshd :P
Nov 26 16:59:13 <alterego> Strange how rcS-late doesn't depend on rcS :)
Nov 26 17:00:44 <yacc> Btw, the sounds for "battery is charging" and "connected IM" are playing fine.
Nov 26 17:00:45 <Venemo_N900> what does rcS stand for?
Nov 26 17:01:18 <Venemo_N900> yacc: can the cause be file system corruption?
Nov 26 17:01:19 <yacc> rc file for single user mode, that is always executed no matter what init level you want to go to?
Nov 26 17:01:29 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: WUT?
Nov 26 17:01:35 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Nov 26 17:01:56 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, seems all quite... messed up
Nov 26 17:02:07 <yacc> alterego, ok, did not help.
Nov 26 17:02:11 <alterego> pfft
Nov 26 17:02:15 <MohammadAG_> I'm more interested in why /etc/event.replace.d/ isn't cleaned up
Nov 26 17:02:17 <alterego> Oh well, I give up, got things to do :P
Nov 26 17:02:18 <yacc> media player still claims the device is busy.
Nov 26 17:02:30 <MohammadAG_> yacc, I suggested reflashing, I had the same problem with the camera
Nov 26 17:02:39 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: who claimed it should?
Nov 26 17:02:47 <alterego> I might look into it later if I have the time and I fancy screwing my media playback capabilities :P
Nov 26 17:03:03 <alterego> Wait, is yacc's problem not the one we're trying to fix:
Nov 26 17:03:05 <alterego> ?
Nov 26 17:03:06 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, I have duplicate scripts in /etc/event.d and /etc/event.replace.d
Nov 26 17:03:35 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: please enlighten me what exactly this event.replace.d is for
Nov 26 17:03:35 <yacc> I wonder why some apps (the desktop for example) can play sounds while others cannot?
Nov 26 17:03:54 <Venemo_N900> may be a permission issue?
Nov 26 17:04:02 <korhojoa> hmm, anyone tried using uprecords on their n900?
Nov 26 17:04:09 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, postinst of mce copies script from it
Nov 26 17:04:14 <MohammadAG_> to /etc/event.d
Nov 26 17:04:21 <korhojoa> i got it installed on mine using the debian armel debs, but it doesn't keep the records updated
Nov 26 17:04:24 <MohammadAG_> yacc, policy file issue?
Nov 26 17:04:25 <korhojoa> each reboot it resets them
Nov 26 17:04:33 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: hmm, so why should it be cleaned?
Nov 26 17:05:04 <ereslibre> hey, where can i find maemo bluetooth related code ?
Nov 26 17:05:05 <yacc> MohammadAG: I've got two processes accessing /dev/snd, one is pa, and the other one is /usr/sbin/alsaped -p 4 -f /usr/share/policy/etc/curre
Nov 26 17:05:55 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG_: good point
Nov 26 17:06:01 <yacc> MohammadAG_, Which policy files?
Nov 26 17:06:13 <yacc> MohammadAG_: which package do I need to reinstall?
Nov 26 17:06:20 <MohammadAG_> Nokia-N900:~# cat /usr/share/policy/etc/current/pulse/xpolicy.conf | pastebinit
Nov 26 17:06:21 <MohammadAG_> http://pastebin.com/jZZaL3cE
Nov 26 17:06:36 <DocScrutinizer> anybody of you installed the skip-on-headset-pushbutton app, or the pause-on-unplug-hs ?
Nov 26 17:06:40 <MohammadAG_> you might want to remove the last two section if you don't have them
Nov 26 17:06:53 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, headphoned, yes, I have it
Nov 26 17:07:05 <DocScrutinizer> might mess up policy file
Nov 26 17:07:18 <MohammadAG_> and qwerty12's headset-control app, had it for quite some time, then my headset broke
Nov 26 17:07:27 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Now that you ask, I've got the pause-on-unplug app installed.
Nov 26 17:07:35 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer: pause on unplug is here, works as always for me
Nov 26 17:07:47 <MohammadAG_> yacc it doesn't cause issues
Nov 26 17:07:57 <DocScrutinizer> that doesn't mean it leaves the file intact though
Nov 26 17:08:10 <MohammadAG_> it edits it, but it doesn't ruin it :)
Nov 26 17:08:23 <Venemo_N900> anyway guys, I have to leave now
Nov 26 17:08:26 <DocScrutinizer> it might introduce whatever issue, with 1.3
Nov 26 17:08:38 <Venemo_N900> good evening to all of you and have a nice weekend :)
Nov 26 17:09:11 <DocScrutinizer> even a perfect edit that was ok for 1.2 may mess up 1.3 PA
Nov 26 17:10:02 <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer, true, but I have it installed and it hasn't caused me issues
Nov 26 17:10:20 <MohammadAG_> also, thp hasn't left the community, if it does cause issues he would've updated it :)
Nov 26 17:10:24 <DocScrutinizer> I strongly suggest to check both apps. Deinstall, make sure the files were restored to original, check if error still occurs
Nov 26 17:12:10 <DocScrutinizer> the late mount story sounds good, but when mediaplayer is doing shakehands from optified medifile, then evidently /home has to be mounted at that point in time
Nov 26 17:12:44 <yacc> MohammadAG_: That's the diff to mine: http://pastebin.com/wRGi6U1J
Nov 26 17:13:54 <DocScrutinizer> looks fishy
Nov 26 17:14:11 <alterego> Lovely segfaulys.
Nov 26 17:14:14 <alterego> ~segfaults.
Nov 26 17:14:30 <DocScrutinizer> don't call infobot names
Nov 26 17:15:14 <alterego> Heh
Nov 26 17:16:39 <yacc> sigh
Nov 26 17:17:07 <yacc> Do we have some cmdline tools that I could try for playing a mp3 through pa?
Nov 26 17:18:18 * MohammadAG_ looks at the two assignments he has to write and hand in tomorrow
Nov 26 17:18:29 * MohammadAG_ goes back to Qt Creator
Nov 26 17:18:29 <alterego> Yaaay, fixed me segfauly :)
Nov 26 17:18:31 <DocScrutinizer> play-sound
Nov 26 17:18:58 <alterego> Ah, need to clean up that a bit ^.^
Nov 26 17:19:16 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: ??
Nov 26 17:21:49 <yacc> Nokia-N900-51-1:~# play-sound /home/user/MyDocs/Musik/Vangelis/The\ Hits\ of\ Vangelis/01\ -\ Pulstar.mp3
Nov 26 17:21:49 <yacc> ca_context_play_full (vol -0.000000): File or data corrupt
Nov 26 17:22:26 <yacc> Google does not say anything about that error :(
Nov 26 17:23:11 <yacc> away for a moment
Nov 26 17:25:38 <nicolai> yacc: try a .wav file, play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-battery_low.wav
Nov 26 17:26:00 <BCMM> it could be worse. i hate it when the only google results for an error are the source code of the program that just broke
Nov 26 17:29:44 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: play-sound knows .wav - seems it doesn't know other formats though (makes sense)
Nov 26 17:35:49 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: seems you're back to gst-* to playback mp3
Nov 26 17:37:07 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: I'd love that
Nov 26 17:38:00 <DocScrutinizer> usually you find 37k-hits on lusers whining, and no proper link at all to the source
Nov 26 17:47:05 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: Isn't that funny, play-sound can play the wav file fine, ...
Nov 26 17:47:57 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: play-sound is using another policy. You can tell by the always-100% volume it uses
Nov 26 17:48:29 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: By policy you mean the ini-file style sections in the xpolicy file?
Nov 26 17:48:36 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Nov 26 17:49:25 <DocScrutinizer> the strange thing called policy enforcer in PA, that makes the volume separate for ringtones and for music playback and for calls
Nov 26 17:49:54 <DocScrutinizer> controlled by that file, among others. NFC how it works in detail, or where to find docs
Nov 26 17:50:02 <yacc> Do I need to restart pa after changing the file?
Nov 26 17:50:04 <kerio> "not fucking care"?
Nov 26 17:50:15 <DocScrutinizer> ~nfc
Nov 26 17:50:15 <infobot> [nfc] No Fucking Clue
Nov 26 17:50:22 <kerio> ooh
Nov 26 17:50:43 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: dunno
Nov 26 17:51:00 <DocScrutinizer> maybe send SIGHUP to PA-foo
Nov 26 17:51:04 <DocScrutinizer> or restart
Nov 26 17:51:09 <DocScrutinizer> or nothing at all
Nov 26 17:51:20 <yacc> Let's say, pulse audio is a really great piece of software. But just anyone (even people doing Linux over a decade, or perhaps especially these) hopes that their distribution gets it all right, and they don't need to touch it ;)
Nov 26 17:52:01 <kerio> pulseaudio is horrid
Nov 26 17:52:37 <DocScrutinizer> yep. And I heard hundered times one of the major reasons for inventing PA was the abysmal ALSA doc. I can't say I find PA doc any better - hell I can't find any doc at all
Nov 26 17:53:05 <yacc> kerio, It can record stereo send it around half of the globe, and then replicate the stream to 3 Bluetooth headsets while recording it on harddisc with every headset having a seperate volume and so on. But setting it up makes hardcore Linux users go into panic mode.
Nov 26 17:53:27 <kerio> jackd does that too :(
Nov 26 17:54:52 <DocScrutinizer> yacc: ACK
Nov 26 17:55:18 <DocScrutinizer> btw ALSA can do that as well... well maybe not around half the globe
Nov 26 17:56:58 <yacc> Ah, just discovered GST pipeline syntax, ...
Nov 26 17:56:59 <DocScrutinizer> the really odd thing: all my mixers on my desktop are still kinda attributed ALSA mixer, not a single PA mixer
Nov 26 17:57:34 <yacc> I love man pages that look like an annotated BNF
Nov 26 17:57:45 <DocScrutinizer> and those ALSA mixers all can handle softvol controls quite naturally. You don't even notice it's not a hw control
Nov 26 17:59:16 <yacc> Yet another layer that can do everything. So Alsa can mix streams, PA too, and gstream pipelines seem to replicate a good part of that too, ...
Nov 26 18:00:47 <yacc> Who the fuck thought this eggheads about abstraction layers, sigh.
Nov 26 18:01:51 <yacc> cacasink:  cacasink: A colored ASCII art video sink
Nov 26 18:02:04 <yacc> I think that's clearly everything that I need, ...
Nov 26 18:04:16 <DocScrutinizer51> caca YEP  XP
Nov 26 18:04:33 <alterego> yacc: alsa & PA can't decode/encode
Nov 26 18:04:46 <alterego> And muxing streams in gstreamer is different.
Nov 26 18:04:54 <DocScrutinizer51> libcacafap
Nov 26 18:05:41 <yacc> alterego, any tool where I need more than 15 minutes to figure out from the manpage how to play a mp3 file is suspect to me?
Nov 26 18:06:11 <alterego> O_o
Nov 26 18:06:26 <alterego> Meh,
Nov 26 18:06:38 <alterego> gst-launch isn't meant for playing an mp3 is it :P
Nov 26 18:08:59 <DocScrutinizer> it's NOT?
Nov 26 18:09:27 <DocScrutinizer> I guess that's exactly what mediaplayer does though
Nov 26 18:09:57 <alterego> It's one thing that it happens to be able to do.
Nov 26 18:12:46 <yacc> Ok, so what conversion module does decode a mp3 file, ..
Nov 26 18:14:29 <yacc> Because the examples in the man page use mad which is not there on my n900.
Nov 26 18:15:13 <pupnik> yacc: what language?
Nov 26 18:15:28 <yacc> pupnik, language?
Nov 26 18:15:40 <alterego> He's using gst-launch
Nov 26 18:15:46 <pupnik> oh
Nov 26 18:15:52 <yacc> Trying to.
Nov 26 18:15:56 <alterego> yacc: why not just use "play-sound" command?
Nov 26 18:16:09 <yacc> alterego, because that one works and my media player does not.
Nov 26 18:16:18 <alterego> Heh
Nov 26 18:16:35 <GAN900> Ah, Fall cold.
Nov 26 18:16:36 <yacc> Hence I want to see what the media player sees, because media-player error messages seem not always to be perfect clear.
Nov 26 18:16:36 <GAN900> Lovely.
Nov 26 18:16:40 <alterego> You mean the maemo media player?
Nov 26 18:16:45 <javispedro> hey GAN900
Nov 26 18:16:53 <javispedro> btw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNKOImlCWHk (yes I filmed that)
Nov 26 18:16:54 <alterego> yacc: the maemo media player uses mafw
Nov 26 18:17:02 <GAN900> Howdy-ho
Nov 26 18:17:08 <alterego> yacc: mafw is a dbus service that uses gstreamer to play audio.
Nov 26 18:17:11 <yacc> mafw? So where's the documentation?
Nov 26 18:17:27 <alterego> If you want to see what media player sees, you need to use dbus-send and dbus-monitor :P
Nov 26 18:17:44 <alterego> do a google search for mafw ..
Nov 26 18:17:48 <GAN900> javispedro, that thing was creepy.
Nov 26 18:18:02 <yacc> alterego, cool, so where's the docs?
Nov 26 18:18:04 <pupnik> javispedro: minitube doesn't see your link, but browser does
Nov 26 18:18:12 <yacc> Google associates mafw with "Morris Area Freewheelers Bicycle Club - Home"
Nov 26 18:18:14 <alterego> yacc: google
Nov 26 18:18:22 <GAN900> pupnik, unlisted video.
Nov 26 18:18:26 <alterego> I'm sure you can be a bit more inventive than that.
Nov 26 18:18:33 <alterego> It stands for "Media application framework"
Nov 26 18:19:15 <javispedro> pupnik: try now, i've made it public (nothing interesting though :) )
Nov 26 18:22:22 <DocScrutinizer> ( <alterego> yacc: why not just use "play-sound" command?) [2010-11-26 18:21:53] <DocScrutinizer> yacc: play-sound knows .wav - seems it doesn't know other formats though (makes sense)
Nov 26 18:22:32 <pupnik> ty got it javispedro
Nov 26 18:22:45 <javispedro> play-sound as
Nov 26 18:22:57 <javispedro> *also uses system  notifications volume
Nov 26 18:23:01 <javispedro> so it will be loud
Nov 26 18:23:32 <DocScrutinizer> ahaaaa, where from you got that special secret wisdom?
Nov 26 18:23:38 <RST38h> heya javispedro
Nov 26 18:23:44 <DocScrutinizer> I always wondered which policy it uses
Nov 26 18:23:47 <javispedro> hi RST38h
Nov 26 18:23:55 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: pure experimentation
Nov 26 18:24:01 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Nov 26 18:24:20 <DocScrutinizer> isn't doc excellent on the whole audio-shit?
Nov 26 18:24:26 <javispedro> completely!
Nov 26 18:24:35 <javispedro> there's no hidden x-maemo stuff whatsoever.
Nov 26 18:24:46 <javispedro> everything documented.
Nov 26 18:24:52 <korhojoa> :D
Nov 26 18:24:53 * javispedro sighs
Nov 26 18:24:54 <DocScrutinizer> uhum
Nov 26 18:25:31 <yacc> DocScrutinizer: The point is not to play a mp3 file, the point is to get to see what really happens when it spits out it's error message. Last time when pa was dead it said something like "cannot play files in this format", .... <= not exactly the real cause, ...
Nov 26 18:25:31 <RST38h> open, yes
Nov 26 18:25:36 <troulouliou> hi could anybody give me the output of glxinfo on its maemo ?
Nov 26 18:26:00 <BCMM> yacc: it complains about the format if anything at all goes wrong
Nov 26 18:26:16 <BCMM> yacc: i've had that due to PA dieing and due to the DSP getting a broken state
Nov 26 18:26:27 <BCMM> ^in
Nov 26 18:26:55 <BCMM> troulouliou: sure, which package is it in?
Nov 26 18:26:59 <yacc> BCMM, so it's perhaps understandable that I want to know more, because with such generic error messages it's hard to debug the situation.
Nov 26 18:27:11 <troulouliou> BCMM: apt-get install mesa-utils
Nov 26 18:27:21 <DocScrutinizer51> yeah, maemo just works, why bother about error msgs or docs
Nov 26 18:27:51 <troulouliou> the app manager is too slow here so i drop it definitively :)
Nov 26 18:28:04 <erstazi> just curious: N900 users, how do you know your N900 is charging?
Nov 26 18:28:19 <troulouliou> ther is a led blinkning in the corner
Nov 26 18:28:21 <javispedro> troulouliou: there's no GLX in the Maemo xorg server.
Nov 26 18:28:21 <erstazi> does the little red light on the bottom left blink?
Nov 26 18:28:27 <erstazi> troulouliou: ^
Nov 26 18:28:34 <BCMM> erstazi: a light comes on (by default), and you can see it in the status area too
Nov 26 18:28:43 <BCMM> erstazi: that light isn't always red
Nov 26 18:28:49 <BCMM> erstazi: by default, it's orange for charging
Nov 26 18:28:57 <DocScrutinizer51> amber
Nov 26 18:29:01 <erstazi> BCMM: right but that is if the phone is on (: but if the phone is off, does the normally white light blink red when it is off?
Nov 26 18:29:13 <yacc> If I trust dbus-monitor nothing beyond a stop message is transmitted, ...
Nov 26 18:29:15 <troulouliou> javispedro: what is the equivalent
Nov 26 18:29:25 <BCMM> erstazi: still orange, by defualt
Nov 26 18:29:26 <DocScrutinizer51> no
Nov 26 18:29:26 * erstazi checks the user manual 
Nov 26 18:29:32 <DocScrutinizer51> no red ever
Nov 26 18:29:32 <BCMM> orange blinking light, even if hte phone is "off"
Nov 26 18:29:41 <BCMM> red is for errors, and i think for the front cam being on
Nov 26 18:29:54 <BCMM> (but i've messed with my settings and might've forgotten the defaults)
Nov 26 18:30:01 <DocScrutinizer51> amber :-P
Nov 26 18:30:02 <troulouliou> javispedro: cause opengles 1.0 suport it i think
Nov 26 18:30:18 <javispedro> troulouliou: it's a long story, but the equivalent is  EGL
Nov 26 18:30:58 <javispedro> troulouliou: anything specific you want to know?
Nov 26 18:31:19 <troulouliou> javispedro: yeah i m porting an application that compil against GLES 1.0
Nov 26 18:31:45 <BCMM> just installing a pastebin script
Nov 26 18:31:45 <troulouliou> and its using GLX for window rendering
Nov 26 18:31:51 <BCMM> incidentally, glxgears doesn't work right :(
Nov 26 18:32:15 <troulouliou> javispedro: so i hoped that at least the mesa-glx was working fine
Nov 26 18:32:29 <javispedro> troulouliou: are you sure it's GLES (not GL)? It'll be the first time I have ever seen such a combination (possible though)
Nov 26 18:32:43 <javispedro> BCMM: no wonder, as I guess glxgears is GL1.0 (not GLES1)
Nov 26 18:32:44 <BCMM_> http://pastebin.com/VSRHDZJS
Nov 26 18:32:58 <BCMM> troulouliou: &
Nov 26 18:33:06 <BCMM> ^, rather
Nov 26 18:33:16 <javispedro> handle with care, that is very probably sw rendering
Nov 26 18:34:00 <BCMM> "OpenGL renderer string: Mesa X11" - yep
Nov 26 18:34:02 <BCMM> why's that?
Nov 26 18:34:15 <javispedro> I am trying to explain, above :)
Nov 26 18:34:21 <javispedro> there's no GLX at all in the N900.
Nov 26 18:34:21 <BCMM> GLXgears was weird, incidentally: just a fullscreen transparent window...
Nov 26 18:34:41 <troulouliou> javispedro: think it is , it is based on ogre
Nov 26 18:34:59 <javispedro> ogre itself was ported to the n900
Nov 26 18:35:13 <BCMM> so OpenGL ES isn't implemented through mesa?
Nov 26 18:36:52 <troulouliou> BCMM: both 1.0 and 2.0 have their own driver
Nov 26 18:37:21 <javispedro> troulouliou: I'm quite sure the GLES port of Ogre uses EGL, not GLX...
Nov 26 18:37:26 <javispedro> see http://ogre.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ogre/trunk/RenderSystems/GLES/src/
Nov 26 18:37:31 <BCMM> is ES not entirely a subset of opengl proper then?
Nov 26 18:37:44 <javispedro> it's a long story BCMM, GLX was never part of OpenGL
Nov 26 18:37:47 <javispedro> proper.
Nov 26 18:38:07 <troulouliou> BCMM: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenGL-ES
Nov 26 18:38:20 <BCMM> javispedro: opengl itself has never cared about windowing systems on any platform, right?
Nov 26 18:38:27 <javispedro> OpenGL is not a "complete" API in the sense that you cannot use it at all unless you have some extra platform depended API
Nov 26 18:38:29 <javispedro> BCMM: exactly
Nov 26 18:38:57 <BCMM> javispedro: and GLX doesn't do opengl-es?
Nov 26 18:39:04 <javispedro> it can
Nov 26 18:39:08 <javispedro> but not on the N900.
Nov 26 18:39:23 <BCMM> ah... why not?
Nov 26 18:40:08 <javispedro> probably two reasons
Nov 26 18:40:22 <javispedro> EGL is suggested for GLES, and no other platform used X11 with GLES
Nov 26 18:41:46 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, raster would know some details. If you would"mt mind he's using 'u' instead of 'you'
Nov 26 18:42:23 <DocScrutinizer51> alas somebody thought that's a reason to kick
Nov 26 18:42:36 <javispedro> heh
Nov 26 18:42:52 <yacc> Ok, I guess pnatd is not open source, but I wonder if there is any documentation on it at all?
Nov 26 18:43:36 <DocScrutinizer51> none I know of
Nov 26 18:43:46 <javispedro> either way, noone should know the obscure glx stuff
Nov 26 18:46:46 <troulouliou> javispedro: iphone is using egl or glx or anything else ?
Nov 26 18:47:42 <javispedro> troulouliou: a propietary api
Nov 26 18:47:46 <javispedro> it is usually called eagl
Nov 26 18:47:59 <troulouliou> javispedro : ok got it now
Nov 26 18:48:34 <javispedro> similar to egl btw, I'd call it "EGL on ObjC"
Nov 26 18:48:38 <javispedro> but not exactly the same
Nov 26 18:50:06 <troulouliou> and egl is only compatible gles1.0 ?
Nov 26 18:50:22 <erstazi> if I take the battery out, it flashes yellow/anber but if I put the battery back in, it flashes red.
Nov 26 18:50:24 <troulouliou> or there is one for gles1.0 et another one for gles2.0
Nov 26 18:50:42 <ds3> a
Nov 26 18:51:32 <javispedro> troulouliou: you can potentially use EGL with any API
Nov 26 18:51:55 <javispedro> gles, gl, vg...
Nov 26 18:52:58 <javispedro> flashing red? heh.
Nov 26 18:57:00 <javispedro> btw, capacitive stylus suck.
Nov 26 18:57:09 <javispedro> the required pressure is.... wow.
Nov 26 18:57:39 <RST38h> Won't any metal object work though?
Nov 26 18:57:42 <MohammadAG> sed 's/stylus/*/' :P
Nov 26 18:57:59 <javispedro> RST38h: you're not going to press any metal object so hard against the screen
Nov 26 18:58:18 <javispedro> I don't know why but it requires extreme pressure to be able to detect anything at all
Nov 26 18:58:30 <javispedro> (save for one's finger)
Nov 26 19:00:24 <javispedro> so much for capacitive.
Nov 26 19:00:40 <javispedro> if this is the way the N9 is going to work...
Nov 26 19:00:40 <DocScrutinizer> erstazi: battery dead, or phone hw dead
Nov 26 19:02:26 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: toldya capacitive sucks
Nov 26 19:03:05 <DocScrutinizer> try wiener - works great and you can eat it
Nov 26 19:03:24 <RST38h> not after it touches that germ-infested touchscreen!
Nov 26 19:03:25 <javispedro> but I hoped to use a stylus for precision stuff / writing
Nov 26 19:03:28 <DocScrutinizer> I'll come up with a mustard dispenser app for N9
Nov 26 19:03:55 <javispedro> so the fact that it is hardly sensitive to a conductive stylus is shit.
Nov 26 19:04:04 * RST38h wonders if terminals of charged capacitors will do the job
Nov 26 19:04:28 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: capacitive needs a certain conduvtive *area* in close contact to screen
Nov 26 19:04:41 <myuu_> hey anyone here having trouble wth Netstory?
Nov 26 19:04:55 <pupnik> javispedro: the screen denter
Nov 26 19:05:04 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: no way for precision stuff on c-ts
Nov 26 19:06:08 <RST38h> MohammadAG is trolling lemming.
Nov 26 19:06:09 <DocScrutinizer> erstazi: try reflashing. If that doesn't help, try to get new battery. If that doesn't help, get a new device
Nov 26 19:06:18 <RST38h> trolling lemmings that is, sorry Mohammad
Nov 26 19:06:32 <javispedro> I've seen too kinds of capacitive stylus, http://www.songtak.com.tw/downloadfiles/iphone%20stylus%20with%20gloves2.jpg (useless for writing), and http://www.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/CapacitiveStylus.jpg (with a "peephole", the one that requires insane pressure to work)
Nov 26 19:06:37 <RST38h> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66226 <== Not even sure if he is serious :)
Nov 26 19:07:14 <javispedro> just send them a dcma c&d
Nov 26 19:07:19 <javispedro> *dmca
Nov 26 19:07:48 <MohammadAG> RST38h, I am, and it works :D
Nov 26 19:07:54 <troulouliou> it is possivle to replace the boot-splash hand  by console output ?
Nov 26 19:08:07 <myuu_> erstazi have you ever tried to jumpstart your batt.?
Nov 26 19:08:13 <RST38h> Mohammad: Too bad none of these folks can appreciate the beauty of this method =)
Nov 26 19:08:22 <MohammadAG> Indeed :)
Nov 26 19:09:00 <nox-> moin
Nov 26 19:09:17 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Nov 26 19:09:32 <DocScrutinizer> moin nox-
Nov 26 19:10:22 <nox-> moin DocScrutinizer
Nov 26 19:10:23 <DocScrutinizer> troulouliou: yes, with a special fb-enabled kernel, that is notorious to reboot 5 times until it comes up
Nov 26 19:10:41 <troulouliou> ok thanks :)
Nov 26 19:10:41 <DocScrutinizer> troulouliou: ask MohammadAG
Nov 26 19:11:00 <erstazi> DocScrutinizer: working on all of those.
Nov 26 19:11:26 <troulouliou> i just got mine , is there anythong special to do so that when i turn it it activate the phoine ?
Nov 26 19:11:30 <MohammadAG> /usr/share/hildon-welcome.d/ I think
Nov 26 19:11:33 <erstazi> myuu_: working on that, thanks
Nov 26 19:11:34 <MohammadAG> and /etc/hildon-welcome/
Nov 26 19:11:36 <erstazi> DocScrutinizer: thanks
Nov 26 19:11:42 <troulouliou> i have a friend that have that option
Nov 26 19:12:25 <DocScrutinizer> there's no need to jumpstart battery. It's actually strongly deprecated and discourraged
Nov 26 19:12:51 <MohammadAG> http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Welcome_screen
Nov 26 19:13:05 <jacekowski> you know what
Nov 26 19:13:06 <jacekowski> it's friday
Nov 26 19:13:08 <DocScrutinizer> in fact a dead battery that causes red flashing might be rather dangerous to "jumpstart"
Nov 26 19:13:34 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: actually
Nov 26 19:14:00 <DocScrutinizer> jacekowski: noticed same thing/mood/symptoms some 6h ago :-P
Nov 26 19:14:08 * MohammadAG starts saving for the Fender Rock Band 3 guitar
Nov 26 19:14:28 <MohammadAG> $280 :(
Nov 26 19:14:30 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG - the one man band
Nov 26 19:14:33 * javispedro tries to install some 1998 game in IdeaPad, let's see if that works with reasonable performance
Nov 26 19:14:55 <DocScrutinizer> with drumset on back and guitar in his hands
Nov 26 19:15:09 <DocScrutinizer> hihat on his head
Nov 26 19:15:17 <DocScrutinizer> blowing a harp
Nov 26 19:15:41 <RST38h> Mohammad: There is some experimental camera-based contraption that will let you do the air guitar -)
Nov 26 19:15:41 <MohammadAG> no, I use beat-maker on the N900 for drums
Nov 26 19:16:00 <MohammadAG> RST38h, I don't know how to play a guitar, let alone an air one :P
Nov 26 19:16:01 <DocScrutinizer> oh, so no drumset in red wood anymore?
Nov 26 19:16:06 <RST38h> javispedro: I assume you tried VGBA already?
Nov 26 19:16:17 <RST38h> Mohammad: But that is the whole point of the air guitar! =)
Nov 26 19:16:48 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: air guitar is easy, it's never detuned :-P
Nov 26 19:17:09 <troulouliou> COuld anybody tells me what is the best replacement for appManager cause here it takes like 2 minutes to refresh
Nov 26 19:17:23 <troulouliou> and synaptic can not be installed due to scrollkeeper broken package
Nov 26 19:17:24 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, heh
Nov 26 19:17:39 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: nad you always get the right note
Nov 26 19:18:12 <MohammadAG> I'm impressed with the N8's 300kbps BT speeds (with my laptop)
Nov 26 19:18:14 <DocScrutinizer> you just need to lear to shake your head like an idiot :-P
Nov 26 19:18:18 <MohammadAG> I wonder if it's BT 3.0 or something
Nov 26 19:18:28 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, headbanging ftw :P
Nov 26 19:19:17 <javispedro> MohammadAG: 300? BT2.0 max should be 200 iirc
Nov 26 19:19:22 <DocScrutinizer> also air guitars are considerably lower price than fenders
Nov 26 19:19:22 <javispedro> ah
Nov 26 19:19:32 <javispedro> a laptop with BT3.0? =)
Nov 26 19:20:19 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: I have a few nice and cheap ones here, start at 20$
Nov 26 19:20:25 <MohammadAG> no idea
Nov 26 19:20:33 <MohammadAG> I just got 300
Nov 26 19:20:41 <MohammadAG> is the N8 3.0?
Nov 26 19:21:04 <MohammadAG> apparently, it is
Nov 26 19:21:08 <DocScrutinizer> err, BT3.0?
Nov 26 19:21:34 * DocScrutinizer scratches head
Nov 26 19:21:44 <DocScrutinizer> wasn't that the fake BT that'
Nov 26 19:21:47 <DocScrutinizer> s
Nov 26 19:21:52 <DocScrutinizer> actually a WLAN?
Nov 26 19:22:22 <MohammadAG> no, it's BT3.0 :)
Nov 26 19:26:38 <DocScrutinizer> Bluetooth 3.0 + HS (auch Seattle Release genannt) ... Unterstützung eines zusätzlichen Highspeed-Kanals auf Basis von WLAN und UWB
Nov 26 19:26:48 <DocScrutinizer> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth
Nov 26 19:27:35 <javispedro> Aber ich spreche nĂĽr ein bischen Deutsch!
Nov 26 19:27:58 <javispedro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Bluetooth_v3.0_.2B_HS
Nov 26 19:28:03 <comawhite> anyone using Qt in Maemo?
Nov 26 19:31:18 <MohammadAG> most of the developers probably
Nov 26 19:32:15 <javispedro> dammit
Nov 26 19:32:38 <javispedro> anyone knows what's the protocol apple uses for cdrom sharing?
Nov 26 19:32:43 <javispedro> totally offtopic question =)
Nov 26 19:33:11 <MohammadAG> javispedro, probably sftp :P
Nov 26 19:33:26 <MohammadAG> dubbed as iShareCDs
Nov 26 19:33:35 <DocScrutinizer> N8 official Nokia specs: Bluetooth Spezifikation 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
Nov 26 19:34:23 <kerio> MohammadAG: i doubt it
Nov 26 19:34:28 <kerio> it doesn't share files
Nov 26 19:35:40 <luke-jr> DocScrutinizer: uh, so?
Nov 26 19:35:55 <DocScrutinizer> luke-jr: eh, yes?
Nov 26 19:35:57 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, I see
Nov 26 19:36:45 <javispedro> smb for sharing cds with a netbook plain sucks
Nov 26 19:37:07 <javispedro> no block access, smb process hogs mount point, etc etc
Nov 26 19:37:19 <javispedro> s/smb process/smb process and/or windows client
Nov 26 19:38:43 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: remote scsi?
Nov 26 19:39:03 <javispedro> oooh
Nov 26 19:39:05 <javispedro> thanksssssss
Nov 26 19:39:21 <javispedro> there's a windows client for that seems
Nov 26 19:40:03 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: I'm just babbling buzzwords
Nov 26 19:40:49 <javispedro> exactly what I'm looking for, buzzwords to google
Nov 26 19:42:26 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: btw "nĂĽr" is quite charming
Nov 26 19:43:23 <DocScrutinizer> the rest was too perfect to be true
Nov 26 19:43:51 <javispedro> heh
Nov 26 19:48:43 <korhojoa> hmm. the n900 should be able to be upgraded to bt 3.0, right? it's got bt 2.1 with edr and wlan, which is all that is required
Nov 26 19:49:03 <SpeedEvil> korhojoa: probably not.
Nov 26 19:49:21 <korhojoa> why not?
Nov 26 19:50:01 <SpeedEvil> korhojoa: The BT and wlan interfaces are not designed to work together.
Nov 26 19:50:15 <korhojoa> isn't that all about the drivers to make it happen?
Nov 26 19:50:28 <SpeedEvil> They require very intimate scheduling to make it happen - below the level of what drivers do.
Nov 26 19:50:41 <korhojoa> ah, okay.
Nov 26 19:50:43 <kerio> :(
Nov 26 19:50:47 <SpeedEvil> Think more of 'machine gun firing through propellor' than 'flying in formation'
Nov 26 19:51:09 <korhojoa> That is an interesting way to describe it
Nov 26 19:51:38 <SpeedEvil> I couldn't think of a car analogy. :(
Nov 26 19:52:05 <korhojoa> more like firing injectors than changing gears
Nov 26 19:52:21 <SpeedEvil> that works
Nov 26 19:52:40 * SpeedEvil has a open-source ECU he needs to put together.
Nov 26 19:53:13 <korhojoa> megasquirt?
Nov 26 19:53:19 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 26 19:53:34 <korhojoa> heh. a friend of mine has built a few
Nov 26 19:54:33 <korhojoa> he's got a go-fast button :D
Nov 26 19:54:45 <SpeedEvil> :)
Nov 26 19:54:50 <korhojoa> for racing, it totally screws up emissions but gives him like 35 hp
Nov 26 19:54:56 <SpeedEvil> I was actually more wondering about go slow buttons.
Nov 26 19:55:01 <RST38h> Mhm, CNN is covering the black friday as if it were some highly important global event
Nov 26 19:55:06 <korhojoa> ahh, saving fuel?
Nov 26 19:55:10 <SpeedEvil> And extra measures - for example - cylinder idling
Nov 26 19:55:14 <SpeedEvil> yes
Nov 26 19:55:26 <SpeedEvil> Also pulse mode.
Nov 26 19:55:38 <SpeedEvil> Somewhat similar to 'pulse and glide' - but implemented in the ECU
Nov 26 19:55:48 <korhojoa> interesting
Nov 26 19:56:00 <SpeedEvil> Run at near WOT all the time - and just pulse on and off.
Nov 26 19:56:07 <korhojoa> firing only two cylinders at high rpms to save stuff?
Nov 26 19:56:15 <korhojoa> where stuff is fuel
Nov 26 19:56:25 <SpeedEvil> that sort of thing, yes.
Nov 26 20:12:25 <slonopotamus> is it possible to use n900 as a modem?
Nov 26 20:13:02 <BugBlue> bluetooth 'modem' or so?
Nov 26 20:13:12 <slonopotamus> yep, bt
Nov 26 20:13:26 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: thing is that isn't firmware in wlan and bt module upgradeable
Nov 26 20:13:56 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: i would go with option that hardware is capable of doing it - just firmware would need changing
Nov 26 20:52:22 <comawhite> why is there ARM and X86?
Nov 26 20:52:37 <GAN900> comawhite, different purposes?
Nov 26 20:53:32 <comawhite> like?
Nov 26 20:54:38 <GAN900> comawhite, Wikipedia really sounds like a good place to start here.
Nov 26 20:55:05 <MohammadAG> architecture is a good keyword
Nov 26 20:55:38 <GAN900> Federal or Ranch?
Nov 26 20:55:39 <Noma> it's like asking why there is Xbox and Playstation...
Nov 26 20:55:59 <MohammadAG> no
Nov 26 20:56:10 <MohammadAG> that's a bad example :P
Nov 26 20:56:48 <Noma> well, they are from different developers and do a nearly same thing but are not compatible with each other
Nov 26 20:57:05 <dRbiG> gee
Nov 26 20:57:17 <dRbiG> Noma: read about each of them :)
Nov 26 20:57:49 <Noma> i know what the difference is, but i just tried to find an analogue
Nov 26 20:57:52 <dRbiG> oh, sorry, meant to addres comawhite
Nov 26 20:58:23 <dRbiG> i guess i'm tired
Nov 26 20:58:34 <comawhite> i just need the gist of it ;P
Nov 26 20:59:13 <dRbiG> the gist is that arm is embedded and x86 is old and not for embedded appilcations
Nov 26 21:00:16 <comawhite> sorry I mean why is there both x86 and arm on the maemo sdk
Nov 26 21:00:33 <dRbiG> ooo
Nov 26 21:00:43 <comawhite> sorry I should have been more clear
Nov 26 21:02:00 <dRbiG> because you do developement on a 'big' computer with x86
Nov 26 21:15:47 <KaRaan25ro_> Hello!!!
Nov 26 21:16:20 <KaRaan25ro_> who can I ask about a probem I have with Canola2 on my N900?
Nov 26 21:17:32 <KaRaan25ro_> who can I ask about a probem I have with Canola2 on my N900?
Nov 26 21:19:01 <jacekowski> ask here
Nov 26 21:19:18 <comawhite> KaRaan25ro_, no need to repeatedly ask
Nov 26 21:19:37 <KaRaan25ro_> on the channal?
Nov 26 21:19:46 <comawhite> no the phone
Nov 26 21:20:01 <comawhite> yes
Nov 26 21:20:06 <KaRaan25ro_> ok
Nov 26 21:20:17 <KaRaan25ro_> sorry... don't know the rules
Nov 26 21:20:18 <KaRaan25ro_> so...
Nov 26 21:20:51 <comawhite> i have no idea about your question
Nov 26 21:21:23 <KaRaan25ro_> I have installed Canola2 on my N900 but since I couldn't find a version for N900 I have installed one for N810 and it works fine but I can't type
Nov 26 21:21:43 <KaRaan25ro_> the keyboard does not respond to the comands
Nov 26 21:21:58 <KaRaan25ro_> so I can't login to Picasa, for example
Nov 26 21:22:53 <comawhite> blah scratchbox's site gives horrible speed
Nov 26 21:23:11 <KaRaan25ro_> ?
Nov 26 21:23:32 <comawhite> i have a 3 GB/s connection and only getting 100-200KB/s
Nov 26 21:24:48 <jacekowski> 3GB/s?
Nov 26 21:24:53 <jacekowski> WOW
Nov 26 21:25:14 <KaRaan25ro_> what is that have to do with the fact my N900 keyboard does not work in Canola2?
Nov 26 21:25:19 <jacekowski> whole datacentre could run on that
Nov 26 21:25:43 <GAN900> KaRaan25ro_, Enlightenment's keyboard input is broken.
Nov 26 21:25:52 <GAN900> Dunno if there's a workaround
Nov 26 21:26:03 <KaRaan25ro_> aha
Nov 26 21:26:07 <GAN900> May be able to scare somebody up in #canola for specifics.
Nov 26 21:26:37 <KaRaan25ro_> so there's no way I can make it work... the only option is just to forget about Canola on N900
Nov 26 21:27:15 <KaRaan25ro_> no one on that channel says anything
Nov 26 21:27:48 <Choom> people aren't exactly there (or here) awaiting questions
Nov 26 21:27:59 <Choom> regard IRC as you woul regard a sticky note
Nov 26 21:28:09 <Choom> post the question and come back later to see if there's an answer
Nov 26 21:28:34 <KaRaan25ro_> ok... well in the meantime all I have to do is NOT logout, right?
Nov 26 21:28:36 <GAN900> What's the other one?
Nov 26 21:28:39 <GAN900> Media Center?
Nov 26 21:30:22 <KaRaan25ro_> I have no idea... the last time I have used IRC was more than 10 years ago so I got the instructions to login here from someone I wrote an email to help me this this problem
Nov 26 21:42:12 <corecode> anybody else also interested in having modest put sent mail on imap?
Nov 26 21:42:41 <nidO> yes
Nov 26 21:42:48 <crashanddie> KaRaan25ro_: right, basically, reponse times can vary from seconds to hours depending on the channel you're in
Nov 26 21:42:58 <nidO> and all the other things that would actually make it function as an imap mail client :<
Nov 26 21:42:59 <corecode> nidO: found some solution already?
Nov 26 21:43:04 <crashanddie> KaRaan25ro_: it's friday evening in Europe though, so most people won't be very active
Nov 26 21:43:16 <corecode> nidO: what is missing?
Nov 26 21:43:28 <nidO> corecode: currently my best solution to having a functioning imap client on my n900 is to simply carry me e90 as well.
Nov 26 21:44:36 <corecode> nidO: what is missing?
Nov 26 21:45:05 <KaRaan25ro_> crashanddie: if I leave an email address for potential answers, do you think I'd have a chance of response?
Nov 26 21:45:19 <nidO> well as you say lack of sent messages on the server, imap-idle being disabled, no local folder subscriptions are the 3 major huge enormous flaws imo
Nov 26 21:45:20 <digitalstimulus> does anyone know where PiTiVi config settings are located in ~/?
Nov 26 21:45:32 <crashanddie> KaRaan25ro_: slim to none
Nov 26 21:45:40 <digitalstimulus> sorry, wrong channel
Nov 26 21:45:49 <KaRaan25ro_> great...
Nov 26 21:46:02 <KaRaan25ro_> thanks anyway... I'll keep on searching
Nov 26 21:46:11 <corecode> nidO: what are local folder subscriptions?
Nov 26 21:46:39 <nidO> corecode: being able to set which folders you're subscribed to locally rather than amending the server-side account-wide subscriptions
Nov 26 21:46:46 <crashanddie> KaRaan25ro_: how about you restate your problem in a relatively short and concise sentence?
Nov 26 21:47:27 <KaRaan25ro_> i can't type anything in Canola2 on my N900 :)
Nov 26 21:47:40 <corecode> nidO: ah
Nov 26 21:48:23 <crashanddie> KaRaan25ro_: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6511
Nov 26 21:48:24 <povbot> Bug 6511: Unable to type text in Canola on N900
Nov 26 21:49:08 <KaRaan25ro_> I found that link a few seconds ago too
Nov 26 21:49:12 <KaRaan25ro_> thank you!
Nov 26 21:49:38 <crashanddie> KaRaan25ro_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=429114#post429114
Nov 26 21:52:01 <corecode> oh what?  remote drafts work, but remote sent mail doesn't?
Nov 26 21:54:29 <KaRaan25ro_> crashanddie: thank you for the link... I hope to find a way to repair it :)
Nov 26 21:54:36 <KaRaan25ro_> Good night toall
Nov 26 21:55:09 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: The problem is that it requires very low-level coordination of packets and radios. I don't think the bluetooth module can do this.
Nov 26 21:55:29 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: at least - typically. Also - the bluetooth module is much 'smarter' than the wlan one.
Nov 26 21:56:10 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: It does quite a lot internally, whereas the wlan one is - more or less (on the transmit side) software builds a packet, and tells the hardware exactly when to transmit.
Nov 26 21:56:54 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: Also - session-migration between two modes is fun, and there may not be enough internal data exposed.
Nov 26 21:57:15 <jacekowski> that's up to firmware to decide
Nov 26 21:57:18 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: for example, this precludes GSM->wifi bridging.
Nov 26 21:57:20 <jacekowski> what is exposed
Nov 26 21:57:27 <SpeedEvil> Firmware and hardware.
Nov 26 21:59:24 <SpeedEvil> Also - assuming for a moment that it's a CSR radio - that I think it is - most of the bluetooth code is closed.
Nov 26 21:59:44 <SpeedEvil> You can run software on the chip, but it's not allowed to see the insides of the bluetooth stack.
Nov 26 22:00:02 <SpeedEvil> actually - no - it's broadcom
Nov 26 22:00:09 <SpeedEvil> dunno how that architecture works.
Nov 26 22:03:21 <corecode> any hints how to change the brightness of the front camera?
Nov 26 22:07:09 <GAN900> corecode, add a 12k
Nov 26 22:08:39 <corecode> huh?
Nov 26 22:18:48 <SpeedEvil> corecode: A 1000W floodlamp
Nov 26 22:20:46 <corecode> this channel is as useless as ever
Nov 26 22:21:23 <GAN900> corecode, evidently you've not been entertained.
Nov 26 22:21:28 * GAN900 kills himself.
Nov 26 22:28:23 <alterego> I don't believe it ..
Nov 26 22:32:09 <SpeedEvil> corecode: In principle, you could obtain the NDA'd datasheet of the cam
Nov 26 22:32:38 <corecode> well, something fiddles with the brightness
Nov 26 22:32:44 <corecode> because sometimes it is completely dark
Nov 26 22:32:49 <corecode> and sometimes not
Nov 26 22:32:51 <corecode> so...
Nov 26 22:37:20 <MohammadAG> hmm, how do i disable a hildon button?
Nov 26 22:37:31 <MohammadAG> I use setEnabled(bool) in Qt
Nov 26 22:41:16 <comawhite> anyone know why I get this error? E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable.
Nov 26 22:41:45 <alterego> Nasty, you didn't install on a fat partition did you? ^.^
Nov 26 22:41:52 <comawhite> trying to install scratchbox
Nov 26 22:42:26 <Termana> good morning
Nov 26 22:48:56 <jacekowski> is there anything worth seeing in paris?
Nov 26 22:49:41 <alterego> aloha
Nov 26 22:50:44 <crashanddie> jacekowski: quite a few museums, very nice clubs, bars and cafés, good restaurants as well. Historical places, eiffel tower, etc.
Nov 26 22:50:57 <crashanddie> jacekowski: pretty much as much to see in Paris as say, London.
Nov 26 22:51:16 <crashanddie> Termana: g'day
Nov 26 22:54:11 <DocScrutinizer> my weekend toy: http://www.kkcomputer.de/Default.aspx?tabid=34&txtSearch=cabstone solar charger&List=0&SortField=0&ProductID=12476&Pics=1
Nov 26 22:54:31 <pupnik> the people who are stealing the money are the criminals
Nov 26 22:54:32 <pupnik> the people who are murdering the people are the criminals
Nov 26 22:57:16 <ShadowJK> weekend toy?
Nov 26 22:57:29 <DocScrutinizer> just unpacking it
Nov 26 22:57:59 <ShadowJK> I've been trying to find a similar device, but thermoelectric instead of photovoltaic
Nov 26 22:58:03 <DocScrutinizer> funny device, 7.77€ yesterday's special
Nov 26 22:58:26 <ShadowJK> They're worth it even without the panel :-)
Nov 26 22:58:32 <ShadowJK> (if otherwise in working order)
Nov 26 22:58:37 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Nov 26 22:58:56 * SpeedEvil is idly pondering a large solar panel.
Nov 26 22:59:01 <SpeedEvil> (~1Kw)
Nov 26 22:59:14 <SpeedEvil> Solar cells are cheap on ebay, and I have this big pile of bus-windows.
Nov 26 22:59:54 * ShadowJK wants something like http://www.tegpower.com/products.html
Nov 26 23:00:29 <SpeedEvil> The efficiency is unfortunately laughable.
Nov 26 23:00:38 <SpeedEvil> But not useless if you've got a free source of heat.
Nov 26 23:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> I'd use mirrors to multiply the light on them, and cool them with liquid I'd use to do thermosolar
Nov 26 23:01:23 <ShadowJK> wood is free from own forest (takes work though) :-)
Nov 26 23:02:45 * SpeedEvil passes ShadowJK a newcomen beam engine.
Nov 26 23:11:05 <DocScrutinizer> Nov 27 00:02:48 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process (20631) terminated with status 2
Nov 26 23:11:07 <DocScrutinizer> Nov 27 00:02:48 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process ended, respawning
Nov 26 23:11:09 <DocScrutinizer> Nov 27 00:02:50 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process (20650) terminated with status 2
Nov 26 23:11:10 <DocScrutinizer> Nov 27 00:02:50 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process ended, respawning
Nov 26 23:11:12 <DocScrutinizer> GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Nov 26 23:17:55 <DocScrutinizer> incredble
Nov 26 23:18:30 <DocScrutinizer> guess flashlight-extra uninstall scripts need a bit of love until it may promote to extras
Nov 26 23:19:40 <Proteous> lol
Nov 26 23:19:56 <alterego> bluetooth streaming is working :D
Nov 26 23:20:07 * alterego tests with his N810
Nov 26 23:22:22 <alterego> Working in master mode anyway, gotta setup slave mode next.
Nov 26 23:24:33 <alterego> sweeeet :D
Nov 26 23:25:18 <myuu_> what
Nov 26 23:25:28 <myuu_> that sounds cool
Nov 26 23:25:37 <myuu_> also my app manager is taking long to reload
Nov 26 23:25:43 <myuu_> what can I do about that
Nov 26 23:25:58 <myuu_> after an installation, its not slow in any other action
Nov 26 23:27:33 <marmoute> I think it update after every installl.
Nov 26 23:28:31 <alterego> There's something odd happpening, but it's kind of working :D
Nov 26 23:28:39 <myuu_> oh you have it too
Nov 26 23:28:55 <myuu_> yeah I dont mind it, i just change to another thing while I wait
Nov 26 23:29:14 <myuu_> id like to know why its taking longer
Nov 26 23:29:30 <ShadowJK> I think it's slower the more repositories (catalogs) you have enabled
Nov 26 23:30:24 <myuu_> I only have extra-devel and maemo updates
Nov 26 23:30:41 <myuu_> enabled, maybe its just a prob with extras-devel, ill check
Nov 26 23:30:48 <ShadowJK> extra-devel would do it, it's huge :-)
Nov 26 23:30:52 * ShadowJK only has extras
Nov 26 23:30:55 <myuu_> well that makes sense
Nov 26 23:31:02 <myuu_> ill time it vs extras
Nov 26 23:33:08 <alterego> Something appears to be blocking my application.
Nov 26 23:55:33 <alterego> This is quite fun :)
Nov 26 23:56:16 <alterego> N900+Columbus --(via bluetooth)--> Laptop : Displayig my position on a map.
Nov 26 23:56:22 <alterego> Works with the N810 pretty well too.
Nov 26 23:56:55 <alterego> So, I think it's safe to say that it works with anything that can read NMEA.
Nov 26 23:58:51 <alterego> I think tomorrow, I'm going to drop it into my gfs' bag, and get it to stream over 2G to my server, then grab that stream from my server and use socat to create a serial device, then display it on a map.
Nov 26 23:59:48 <SpeedEvil> Voice recording too, remember.
Nov 27 00:00:39 <SpeedEvil> Also FFT the accellerometer to reveal rhythmical motion in the 0.5-5Hz range.
Nov 27 00:00:47 <alterego> why?
Nov 27 00:00:53 <alterego> Heh
Nov 27 00:01:25 <alterego> I was thinking of using my FFT to detect bottlenecks in a journey.
Nov 27 00:01:34 <alterego> And basically detect when you're not moving.
Nov 27 00:02:28 <alterego> I'm suprised at how crap all the GPS apps I've found for Linux are though :/
Nov 27 00:05:23 <jacekowski> tomtom is linux based
Nov 27 00:06:48 <alterego> -_-
Nov 27 00:07:29 <alterego> Something that'll run on a desktop distro, that's foss
Nov 27 00:08:33 <alterego> Now that v1 is feature complete, I'm gonna start working on the meego port and I'll probably get it to work on desktop too.
Nov 27 00:09:33 <alterego> Well, after I've done some more tests and tweaks.
Nov 27 00:09:57 <ieatlint> alterego: "i think tomorrow i'm going to track the movements my unwitting girlfriend" :P
Nov 27 00:10:07 <alterego> :)
Nov 27 00:11:07 <alterego> It's be nice to obtain a N8 to port to symbian too, but we'll see.
Nov 27 00:11:48 <ieatlint> nokia seems to be handing those out like candy...
Nov 27 00:11:56 <ieatlint> probably just need to find some nokia event near you
Nov 27 00:12:08 <alterego> heh, been and gone ...
Nov 27 00:12:19 <alterego> I've missed all the major events.
Nov 27 00:12:36 <alterego> Maybe an email for a loaner or something.
Nov 27 00:12:38 <ieatlint> that sucks
Nov 27 00:13:17 <alterego> I need to do some more wet testing, then advetise and sell.
Nov 27 00:13:33 <alterego> Though, I dunno how many will be interested in such an app.
Nov 27 00:17:25 <Termana> alterego, You're going to try and sell an app but make it FOSS at the same time?
Nov 27 00:17:49 <ieatlint> the n8 also offers a digital compass
Nov 27 00:18:15 <alterego> Termana: no, not making it foss
Nov 27 00:18:18 <ieatlint> and a screen resolution that is a bit smaller, heh
Nov 27 00:18:37 <alterego> Yeah, still I think it should translate okay.
Nov 27 00:22:23 <alterego> hey lcukn900
Nov 27 00:22:56 <Jay_BEE> hmm i wonder if Nokia will be at CES in Vegas
Nov 27 00:24:05 <Termana> alterego, not FOSS? Oh my, you deviant devil child you! :P
Nov 27 00:24:31 * Termana adds sarcasm tag just in case
Nov 27 00:24:43 <Jay_BEE> why yes they will
Nov 27 00:25:49 <alterego> Termana: I don't like it, but I need the money :P
Nov 27 00:26:04 <ieatlint> yeah, i think i saw that nokia was scheduled to be pushing meego at ces at a minimum
Nov 27 00:29:31 <Termana> alterego, it's fine by me. Developers need to eat as well.
Nov 27 00:29:42 <Termana> rms is looking a bit pale lately, I don't think he is eating
Nov 27 00:29:45 <Termana> :P
Nov 27 00:30:46 <alterego> Heh
Nov 27 00:41:30 <alterego> Anyhow, I think it's bed time now :) G'night folks.
Nov 27 00:41:44 <myuu_> I think the rootfs might be the culprit
Nov 27 00:42:29 <myuu_> 69.2 available
Nov 27 00:42:35 <myuu_> could that be slowing down my app manager?
Nov 27 00:47:26 <marmoute> myuu_: The app-manger do an "apt-get update" after every "apt-get install"
Nov 27 00:47:56 <marmoute> myuu_: The mode repo you have, the more there is to do for each update
Nov 27 00:48:07 <marmoute> If you need speed, use apt-get from the command line
Nov 27 00:48:53 <myuu_> well what about the rootfs
Nov 27 00:49:00 <myuu_> is that an ok size to have left?
Nov 27 00:49:20 <myuu_> using a different managet i get better speeds
Nov 27 00:50:12 <myuu_> **manager
Nov 27 01:12:22 <alterego> I'm thinking of implementing an obex ftp server in my app so users can browse and download track data, though it seems like a useless gimmick ;)
Nov 27 01:22:04 <nox-> http://wac.2a8f.edgecastcdn.net/802A8F/maw/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Picard-Android.jpg
Nov 27 02:48:28 <DocScrutinizer> myuu_: 69MB is pretty comfy for rootfs-freespace
Nov 27 02:49:46 <myuu_> good cause deleting the bulkier apps
Nov 27 02:49:50 <myuu_> isnt doing a thing
Nov 27 02:49:54 <myuu_> im up to 73
Nov 27 02:50:11 <SpeedEvil> you don't care about size
Nov 27 02:50:18 <SpeedEvil> you care about size on /
Nov 27 02:52:54 <myuu_> and now I know to stay away from extras-devel unless I need something that is only there
Nov 27 02:53:39 <myuu_> its probably my themes now that I think about it
Nov 27 02:57:45 <SpeedEvil> Why do you care about size on /
Nov 27 02:59:24 <myuu_> its really more about
Nov 27 02:59:32 <myuu_> wanting to know why its so full a day after buying it
Nov 27 02:59:41 <myuu_> I didnt bother to check what it comes at by default
Nov 27 02:59:54 <SpeedEvil> There are three main filesystems
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 27 02:59:58 2010