**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 01 02:59:57 2010 Dec 01 03:15:50 can't believe meego and maemo are empty... Dec 01 03:17:58 empty? Dec 01 03:18:46 empty he says Dec 01 03:18:52 yeah, look at what lcuk said... most people in here are in the europe, where it's 3-5am :P Dec 01 03:18:53 404 = empty Dec 01 03:19:16 404 means not found Dec 01 03:19:25 maemo is not found Dec 01 03:19:30 405 asleep Dec 01 03:19:55 418 is where it counts Dec 01 03:20:21 no thats 420 Dec 01 03:20:55 nah, 420 is actually 204 Dec 01 03:21:06 success, but there's nothing there Dec 01 03:21:25 204!!?? Dec 01 03:21:30 * ham5 lost Dec 01 03:22:06 you're hte one who brought up http codes Dec 01 03:22:31 no? Dec 01 03:22:34 u did... Dec 01 03:22:55 200 Dec 01 03:22:59 you said 404 Dec 01 03:23:15 channel count was 404.... Dec 01 03:23:28 oh, haha Dec 01 03:23:56 lay off the lint Dec 01 03:24:01 ham5: everyone else here thought you meant 404 HTTP Dec 01 03:24:11 * lcuk did too Dec 01 03:24:25 200 http Dec 01 03:24:57 don't tell me what to do, i can quit whenever i want Dec 01 03:25:07 i'm in total control, i just don't want to Dec 01 03:37:33 well it LOOKED empty for a minute there! Dec 01 03:37:57 well mabey use a real irc client... Dec 01 03:38:03 feh Dec 01 03:38:21 web client works well enough :p Dec 01 03:38:26 sure mr mac Dec 01 03:38:33 Mac??? Dec 01 03:38:38 I'm on MeeGo Dec 01 03:38:49 never used a mac Dec 01 03:39:03 netbook or handset? Dec 01 03:39:07 seen apple webkit.. sorry my bad Dec 01 03:39:13 mr chrome Dec 01 03:39:17 netbook Dec 01 03:39:27 Lenovo ideapad, thank YOU Intel :) Dec 01 03:39:48 yeah... that ideapad is lookin' quite tasty Dec 01 03:39:49 go to bed lcuk Dec 01 03:41:35 * b-man` really needs to try out meego-netbook on his laptop Dec 01 04:22:13 finally! i am able to deploy a qt quick app using qt creator 2.1 to my n900! w00t!!! Dec 01 04:22:24 oh no! Dec 01 04:22:26 * Jay_BEE glows with the power Dec 01 04:23:25 kowai Dec 01 04:24:07 * Jay_BEE goes and develops Angry Man2 Dec 01 04:43:50 damn Dec 01 04:44:07 i wish all the hw worked in nitdroid. i would love to stay inm it Dec 01 04:47:57 morning Dec 01 04:49:01 hey Dec 01 04:49:32 sigh. guess i should get badck into maemo before i get too comfortable with nitdroid just to wipe it later when .9 comes out :( Dec 01 05:00:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTH0k9PYBBk << i think the archos 70 is omap3530, with available drivers for linux kernel Dec 01 05:01:19 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=teheran+airport&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=60.246331,66.269531&ie=UTF8&hq=airport&hnear=Tehran,+Iran&ll=35.696168,51.318984&spn=0.001917,0.003404&t=h&z=19 Dec 01 05:01:34 going on vacation SpeedEvil ? Dec 01 05:01:51 No - look at the location, and then work out what symbol they most dissaprove of. Dec 01 05:16:07 haha Dec 01 05:16:48 pupnik: all of them say linux drivers are available then in the end nothing works lol Dec 01 05:17:11 i don't know how to build a bootable linux OS on a device like this Dec 01 05:17:26 but it looks like these are very good candidates for meego. very good... Dec 01 05:18:02 what do you think, Macer Dec 01 05:18:17 dont know tbh. havent tried meego out yet Dec 01 05:18:28 i am just hoping they get all the n900 hardware working Dec 01 05:18:40 what do you think of the archos 70? Dec 01 05:18:44 once they do the n900 will be something worth having :) Dec 01 05:18:54 havent looked into it Dec 01 05:19:09 it is probably another horrible touchbook heh Dec 01 05:19:38 with its advertised 12+ hours of battery time that was really 3 Dec 01 05:19:46 it is 2x price of cheapest android 1.6 tablet and 1/2 the price of the samsung tablet Dec 01 05:20:01 i see reports of 10+ hours Dec 01 05:20:08 :) i am done trying out no name stuff without waiting for others to suffer through it Dec 01 05:20:26 you get what you pay for Dec 01 05:20:35 brb. going to boot into maemo Dec 01 05:20:38 no sometimes more, sometimes less Dec 01 05:20:39 cheers Dec 01 05:20:55 i hope nitdroid can become fully functional on the n900 Dec 01 05:21:07 anything really considering the state of maemo Dec 01 05:21:35 what? its good Dec 01 05:21:46 if i compare to 770, n800 Dec 01 05:24:35 heh Dec 01 05:24:37 hardware wise it is becoming older by the day Dec 01 05:24:59 so i just hope something fully functional comes along Dec 01 05:25:37 like a working meego or nitdroid... although after trying nitdroid i think i would rather use that.. but i cant really judge until i have tried meego out Dec 01 05:25:59 but meego install looks complicated right now. i may try it out tomorrow when i have the time Dec 01 05:26:13 after i back my phone up Dec 01 05:26:20 [21:09] dont know tbh. havent tried meego out yet <--- seems to blinded by nitdroid hehe Dec 01 05:26:25 * Jay_BEE hides Dec 01 05:39:38 hahaha Dec 01 05:39:48 Jay_BEE: yeah.. nitdroid is pretty awesome Dec 01 05:40:13 i just think that android overall has done a much better job of truly becoming an iphone alternative Dec 01 05:40:17 nitdroid is an awesome project, android itself otoh... Dec 01 05:40:31 k, it's better than iShit Dec 01 05:40:52 and i could care less if anybody disagrees with me butapple set the trend witgh the iphone Dec 01 05:40:57 grrrrr, killed my kde4 menubar Dec 01 05:41:27 regardless of the technical issues associated with it.. everybody has been playing catch up with the iphone Dec 01 05:41:41 can anybody help me out please? how do I start what has been kicker in KDE3? Dec 01 05:42:20 sorry. dont know. i havent used kde3 since my n800 Dec 01 05:42:22 :) Dec 01 05:42:37 errr k Dec 01 05:46:05 no. not at all. apple made a crippled, locked-down Personal Money Extractor Dec 01 05:46:49 if the bright colors and the smooth animations is all you see, there are more appropriate communities for that Dec 01 05:49:21 pupnik: the actual experience was groundbreaking tho Dec 01 05:49:33 all the smooth animations and the touch screen etc Dec 01 05:49:57 show me a company that still makes shitty non touch screen phones as their flagship Dec 01 05:50:05 :) Dec 01 05:50:44 all phone companies followed suit Dec 01 05:51:07 all the maemo people should have gotten promotions at nokia Dec 01 05:51:13 for seeing the future before the rest Dec 01 05:51:23 and the rest should now be working for the maemo people Dec 01 05:51:25 nokia.. lg... samsung... htc.... all touch screens using android to have something to oppose the iphone which took off on them all Dec 01 05:51:35 and that change should have happened 2008-2009 Dec 01 05:51:38 only thing that kept apple from cornering the market was att Dec 01 05:52:06 pupnik: nokia thought they would sit on the throne forever Dec 01 05:52:09 :) Dec 01 05:52:15 yes that is the nature of the market Dec 01 05:52:17 it is wonderful Dec 01 05:52:33 only thing keeping them viable are their shitty burn phones Dec 01 05:52:43 what is a 'burn' phone Dec 01 05:52:58 who do you know that actually says "mmmm... n8" hahaha Dec 01 05:53:11 even the n900 had a niche market Dec 01 05:53:20 on purpose Dec 01 05:53:22 a cheap phone Dec 01 05:53:25 n8 is king of the cameraphones Dec 01 05:53:37 n8 runs shitian Dec 01 05:53:51 :) nobody wants a symbian phone nowadays Dec 01 05:54:13 burn phones are those cheap throwaway phones Dec 01 05:54:25 the n900 targeted a specific crowd, it's not attempting to compete with anything else and there's really no competition in its own groupd Dec 01 05:54:37 Choom: agreed Dec 01 05:54:40 apple was kinda happy go lucky with the whole ipod/pc/iphone thing Dec 01 05:54:57 Choom: agreedthe n8 is supposed to gain ground Dec 01 05:55:13 nokia has a line of high end phones that nobody wants over htc and apple stuff Dec 01 05:55:21 because symbian sucks :) Dec 01 05:55:34 they can thank their grows to two things: the ipod and their monopolistic behavior with their marketplace that for some reason hasn't been punished yet Dec 01 05:55:45 growth* Dec 01 05:55:47 it doesnt suck... but it sucks to use to most who have ipos or android to choose from Dec 01 05:56:12 i dont think they are a monopoly Dec 01 05:56:29 or using monopoly tactics.. people have choices Dec 01 05:56:34 :) Dec 01 05:56:53 you know I find it kind of amusing that microsoft is heavily punished for distributing a browser with the OS and not promoting interoperability Dec 01 05:57:17 me too. i dont think ms should have been Dec 01 05:57:18 when apple is allowed to own exclusivity and monopolize a single software market for their own phones Dec 01 05:57:45 at the time tho ms was running on like 99%@ Dec 01 05:58:09 there are clear alternatives to using an iphone... simply dont Dec 01 05:58:29 unlike the pc market where ms was pretty much all there was as apple was on the ropes for years Dec 01 05:59:18 and linux was an absolute infant Dec 01 05:59:26 if, as a developer, I wanted to write ann application for the iphone, I would only have their market place to sell it; if as a customer I wanted an alternative to their marketplace (because of stupid policies forbidden emulators, for instance) I can't, so by buying a product I am then vendor-locked Dec 01 05:59:48 either way.... the whole point is that apple set the phone trend for the last 5+ years with the iphone Dec 01 05:59:59 and nokia has constantly dropped the ball to catch up Dec 01 06:00:19 while no names like htc are taking a front seat :) Dec 01 06:00:33 I agree with that, I really did not understand the point behind symbian on the N8 Dec 01 06:00:36 seriously Dec 01 06:00:38 htc is a formidable company Dec 01 06:00:54 before they werent Dec 01 06:00:58 Choom: symbian has a massive investment behind it Dec 01 06:00:59 the G1 catapaulted them into fame Dec 01 06:01:08 pupnik: i know Dec 01 06:01:12 but it's not a smart decision Dec 01 06:01:14 which is why nokia wont ditch it Dec 01 06:01:17 it doesn't make sense Dec 01 06:01:45 if and when MeeGo and Qt fully come around, it should be game over for both Android and iOS Dec 01 06:01:46 they are falling behind because nobody wants to say .. hey.. all that money we spent was useless Dec 01 06:02:08 symbian is a dead os Dec 01 06:02:29 worthless and unattractive to devs and users Dec 01 06:02:33 it's a better OS for smartphone for current cpu and power profile Dec 01 06:02:35 perhaps the N8 should have been delayed until meego was ready then Dec 01 06:02:52 pupnik: of course.. i am not saying it is a bad os on the technical side Dec 01 06:02:54 not everyone wants a phone that runs down in a few hours Dec 01 06:03:00 but still worthless ;) Dec 01 06:03:03 because, quite frankyl, i don't see anybody out there excited about the N8 Dec 01 06:03:32 are you in the USA Choom ? Dec 01 06:03:37 no Dec 01 06:03:39 EU Dec 01 06:03:44 k Dec 01 06:03:50 heh Dec 01 06:03:56 ah well. gotta go now. Dec 01 06:04:04 was nice talking ;) Dec 01 06:04:36 cu Macer Dec 01 06:04:44 l8r Dec 01 06:08:23 can anybody help me out please? how do I start the taskbar in KDE3? (that thing with clock, menu, miniapplets, systray.) I accidently killed the process Dec 01 06:09:02 s/kde3/kde4/ Dec 01 06:09:52 don't remember what it's called Dec 01 06:10:09 executing 'kicker' gave me the kde3 version Dec 01 06:13:45 DocScrutinizer, might be plasma something Dec 01 06:13:54 aaah Dec 01 06:17:19 YEAH! plasma-desktop Dec 01 06:17:38 thanks a lot, mate Dec 01 06:19:01 still 10 konqueror windows and Konsole with 7 sessions vanished... grrr Dec 01 06:19:13 DocScrutinizer, np Dec 01 06:19:23 board-n810.c board-rx51.c board-archos-a70h.c Dec 01 06:20:17 while opening a new Konsole (==KDE xterm) says "bash (2)" :-P Dec 01 06:21:29 haha it hides on desktop-2 Dec 01 06:23:01 but the konqueror windows definitely are gone Dec 01 06:24:27 well, no loss. I tried to attach a file to a tmo post - from sftp://root@N900. This made konqueror fileselector rape my CPU(s) Dec 01 06:24:47 DocScrutinizer, filed this, https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6661&group_id=1528&atid=5521 Dec 01 06:25:35 haha, clicking the link, konqui says "last session aborted abnormally! restore?" :-D Dec 01 06:26:03 DocScrutinizer, yes it will restore all the open sessions Dec 01 06:28:06 DocScrutinizer, sad to see power kernel not working well here. i need NAT support in the kernel :( Dec 01 06:52:57 * DocScrutinizer51 considers a kernel build service, with a web frontend to click-select config option and patches Dec 01 06:53:47 with a paypal account to pay 2 bucks per build Dec 01 06:56:37 nice Dec 01 06:58:22 well, maybe 0.99 Dec 01 06:59:45 with a cache rebate if they resubmit a job within 1 hr Dec 01 06:59:52 haha Dec 01 07:00:10 That would be a good idea Dec 01 07:00:30 * RST38h greps irc log for "doomed", finds surprisingly many references Dec 01 07:01:14 meh Dec 01 07:01:32 I've only got 10 from this channel. Dec 01 07:01:34 moo Dec 01 07:01:38 maah Dec 01 07:01:48 i can't believe how nicely balanced that Archos 70 is Dec 01 07:02:00 there are libwebkit-dev and libwebkit-1.0-dev in maemo. i have only one question: WTF??? Dec 01 07:02:21 derf: I have not expected to find more than two Dec 01 07:02:46 In here? Dec 01 07:02:51 I'd've expected a lot more. Dec 01 07:02:56 #maemo + #meego Dec 01 07:04:00 anyways, work Dec 01 07:04:04 maemo is doomed Dec 01 07:04:08 meego is doomed Dec 01 07:04:18 derf: here you are two more Dec 01 07:05:23 I baked you a cake but it was doomed Dec 01 07:06:18 doom is doomed? Dec 01 07:06:49 * slonopotamus iddqd Dec 01 07:07:17 w/e, that doesn't answer my webkit question Dec 01 07:11:07 by the way. all that "optification" stuff. why didn't they just symlink /usr/{lib,share} to /home/opt/usr/{lib,share} ? too easy? Dec 01 07:12:57 slonopotamus: because that would make sense Dec 01 07:13:16 we must prevent that Dec 01 07:13:30 oh :) Dec 01 07:15:17 (not to mention that nokia decided to reserve a 30gb vfat partition to linux nerds, so there's not enough space for all of dkpg on the emmc Dec 01 07:15:22 also speed) Dec 01 07:16:44 kerio: or, even, bind-mount /home/opt/usr -> /usr Dec 01 07:16:59 that would be even better Dec 01 07:17:09 alas, nokia is stupid Dec 01 07:17:15 (see also messybox) Dec 01 07:25:15 because there are a few files in /usr/(s)bin that MUST be in /(s)bin instead Dec 01 07:25:46 DocScrutinizer: we could... you know... Dec 01 07:25:48 move them Dec 01 07:26:10 so maemo init process early will barf up on missing a few commands that are on a yet unmounted storage Dec 01 07:26:21 kerio: yes, don't tell me Dec 01 07:26:34 DocScrutinizer: we could move them! Dec 01 07:26:39 gues who created the factoid Dec 01 07:26:46 ~optification Dec 01 07:26:46 extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and ... Dec 01 07:27:06 infobot: <3 Dec 01 07:27:06 I love you. <3 Dec 01 07:27:15 ~botsnack Dec 01 07:27:15 thanks, kerio Dec 01 07:27:31 ~factinfo optification Dec 01 07:27:31 optification -- created by DocScrutinizer <~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Mon Mar 15 10:29:39 2010 (260 days); last modified at Sat Sep 18 13:26:19 2010 by DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 50 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 45s ago. Dec 01 07:31:40 ok, I added doomcake to my active vocabulary Dec 01 07:34:31 I haz make doomcake for you, but it eated me Dec 01 08:31:49 Do you get the n900 from your phone provider? Dec 01 08:34:06 most people order them online Miesco Dec 01 08:36:49 pupnik: Like will it be compatible with telus in canada? Dec 01 08:39:15 "According to previous discussions (search for N900 in Canada - Toronto), the Bellus network will not work for data on the N900. Bell/Telus are still using 850/1900 frequencies, and their networks are apparently 3G only, so they won't drop back to EDGE 2.5G data. That means you can only use the N900 as a regular GSM phone on their networks, not for any data. The iPhone uses the 850/1900 bands for 3G, which is why it works." Dec 01 08:39:21 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35970 Dec 01 08:39:32 http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1624774-Can-the-Nokia-N900-be-used-on-the-%28Rogers-3G%29-network Dec 01 08:40:02 north america's cellular networks are hilarious Dec 01 08:40:21 http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/ Dec 01 08:41:12 i mean, stuff isn't perfect in europe, but at least hardware basically works, everywhere Dec 01 08:41:42 i have no idea how we got so lucky Dec 01 08:43:43 i assumed it all got standardised at some point Dec 01 08:44:05 except in north america Dec 01 08:44:13 * BCMM pokes fun at 60hz a bit Dec 01 08:46:42 What is G3? Dec 01 08:47:48 its a pontiac model? Dec 01 08:48:19 a rifle, an obsolete Apple computer, the T-Mobile G3 mobile phone? Dec 01 08:48:21 context, please Dec 01 08:48:35 phone Dec 01 08:48:44 G3 or 3G? Dec 01 08:49:20 Miesco: it's a smartphone, probably android, locked to t-mobile Dec 01 08:50:01 we had the original angry birds! Dec 01 08:50:05 Dec 01 08:50:19 the G1 was a version of hte HTC Dream branded by t-mob, dunno if the g3 has another name Dec 01 08:50:57 i'm still psyched about how well archos nailed the A70s Dec 01 08:51:02 heh, it looks just like an iphone but with the metal bits replaced with a nasty shade of blue Dec 01 08:51:33 which is probably an improvement, unless blue is electrically conductive Dec 01 08:53:02 is the n900's AV port capable of using a handsfree that also plays stereo music, or do handsfrees have to be mono? Dec 01 08:53:08 is there a simple way of downloading the .deb for angry birds? Dec 01 08:53:35 ds3: Nope Dec 01 08:54:23 BAH Dec 01 08:54:34 then it might as well not exist. Dec 01 08:56:01 Sorry 3G Dec 01 08:56:05 I meant 3G Dec 01 08:56:19 Like the telephony standards or whatever Dec 01 08:56:28 yes Dec 01 08:56:36 Is it like GSM with data? Dec 01 08:56:40 no Dec 01 08:56:49 there is lot of incompatible "3g" standards Dec 01 08:57:04 umts, hsdpa, cdma, hsupa Dec 01 08:57:19 wcdma Dec 01 08:57:36 Miesco: no, you can send data of gsm Dec 01 08:57:59 Miesco: 3g, or at least some things called 3g, are a bit like "GSM 2", as it were Dec 01 08:57:59 " That means you can only use the N900 as a regular GSM phone on their networks, not for any data." Dec 01 08:58:32 data over 2g (gsm) is slow, but sometimes usable Dec 01 08:58:56 can anyone recommend a stereo hands-free that doesn't have in-ear things? i'm looking for ones that attach with clips like these: http://head-direct.com/upload/2008Oct12222217006.jpg Dec 01 09:00:14 So is the Nokia N900 locked to a certain provider? Dec 01 09:00:52 it can be Dec 01 09:00:54 nobody does it Dec 01 09:01:06 Morning, all Dec 01 09:01:57 So is it the software that locks you to one provider or is it the SIM card? Dec 01 09:02:19 it's software Dec 01 09:02:30 Miesco: but nobody actually does it - you can't get a locked one Dec 01 09:02:36 BCMM: you can Dec 01 09:02:50 jacekowski: oh, how? Dec 01 09:02:57 n900 can be locked Dec 01 09:03:07 also, if it's a software thing, it's it hilariously easy to fix? Dec 01 09:03:12 no Dec 01 09:03:17 it's in rapuyama software Dec 01 09:03:22 don't vodafone lock it? Dec 01 09:03:38 Okay so you should never get a locked phone? Dec 01 09:03:53 it's up to you Dec 01 09:04:08 Like if you get an android is it always going to be locked? Dec 01 09:04:13 no Dec 01 09:04:19 that has nothing to do with it Dec 01 09:04:34 it's operator policy Dec 01 09:04:40 if they want to lock their phones or not Dec 01 09:04:55 and phone has software to enforce their will Dec 01 09:04:59 MohammadAG: i thought vodaphone just shipped it with their own maemo image, and everyone immediately reflashed a proper one? Dec 01 09:06:05 Do north american providers purposly allow for unlocked phones to use their network? Dec 01 09:07:16 moorning Dec 01 09:07:23 i'm not sure you can prevent unlocked phones using your network Dec 01 09:07:42 jacekowski: there are simlocked N900 Dec 01 09:07:47 however, some providers might not sell any contracts without a phone, meaning that it would always be a kinda expensive way to do things Dec 01 09:16:51 BCMM: What do you mean? Dec 01 09:16:59 Miesco: to which bit? Dec 01 09:17:07 contracts without phones Dec 01 09:17:24 Miesco: i meant, some networks might not sell you a simcard without a phone Dec 01 09:17:47 Is that evil? Dec 01 09:20:32 DocScrutinizer: Really [simlocked N900s]? I remember being told by Ari Jaaksi (amongst others) that it just plain didn't support it. Dec 01 09:23:09 nah, sure rapuyama supports it. The cellmo firmware also seems to support it as I've seen several N900 offers on ebaeh that were very clearly and precisely described as either sim- or net-locked Dec 01 09:24:16 Does n900 support aws? Dec 01 09:24:28 nope Dec 01 09:24:42 never saw a girl go "awww" for an n900 as she goes for a puppy Dec 01 09:25:00 unless there's a picture of a puppy on the n900 Dec 01 09:25:13 WHAT? Dec 01 09:25:28 Advanced Wireless Services Dec 01 09:25:47 still won't make a girl go "awww" Dec 01 09:26:25 whatever that is Dec 01 09:26:34 we still don't have teleporters Dec 01 09:26:48 "I don't think that Bell, Telus, or Rogers has made any use of their newly purchased AWS spectrum, so for the moment, your only choice for data is 2.5G EDGE" Dec 01 09:26:54 OR personal spaceships Dec 01 09:27:14 mhm Dec 01 09:27:35 no the N900 doesn't suppurt any unusual spectrum Dec 01 09:27:50 n900 doesn't support 3G? Dec 01 09:28:40 no Dec 01 09:28:49 3G is unusually? Dec 01 09:28:58 unusual Dec 01 09:29:11 heh Dec 01 09:29:22 Was this a stupid question? Dec 01 09:29:23 it does support 3G bands Dec 01 09:29:34 yes Dec 01 09:30:06 How do you find out what 3G and specturms are Dec 01 09:30:25 I dont know a lot about it Dec 01 09:30:27 at all Dec 01 09:30:31 Like anything Dec 01 09:30:36 In your situation, i would investigate which networks and carriers are available to you Dec 01 09:30:55 Whats a carrier? Dec 01 09:31:15 Like bell? Dec 01 09:31:16 Why are you interested in the N900? Dec 01 09:31:17 yes Dec 01 09:31:20 http://shop.nokia.de/nokia-de/product.aspx?sku=6958534&cache=-1330914247§ion_id=562&culture=de-DE Dec 01 09:31:36 pupnik: cause I want to develop the kernel Dec 01 09:32:20 Miesco: You know stuff about the Linux kernel? Dec 01 09:32:29 RobbieThe1st: Yes Dec 01 09:32:50 Miesco: you also ever heard about google and wikipedia? Dec 01 09:33:00 DocScrutinizer: Yes Dec 01 09:33:20 Ii searched them, but they expect some knowledge to understand anything Dec 01 09:33:27 Which I dont have Dec 01 09:34:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3g Dec 01 09:34:10 Well, first - I would ignore 3G. Yes, it's there, but do you even care about the extra speed, or will you use Wifi for most data> Dec 01 09:34:39 It makes choosing a provider much simpler - all you need is GSM compatibility. Dec 01 09:34:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS Dec 01 09:35:02 Well I want to use the phone also Dec 01 09:35:35 GSM = phone (voice) Dec 01 09:35:38 Like to surf the internet Dec 01 09:35:38 ^^ Dec 01 09:36:07 GSM is going to be voice, and what... very slow data, correct? Dec 01 09:36:20 Yes Dec 01 09:38:21 RobbieThe1st, compare it to a CD Dec 01 09:38:48 RobbieThe1st, to play an audio CD, you need a 1X CD drive. That gives you an output of roughly 1MBit/s Dec 01 09:39:28 Which also means that copying a full CD's data off to your hard drive would take you... 80 minutes Dec 01 09:40:24 Yes, I know all that. My question was whether 2g data fell under the GSM spec, or if it was a different spec, Dec 01 09:40:58 2G data is GSM/GPRS, yes Dec 01 09:43:15 Hm... so the GSM standard uses GPRS for it's underlying data protocol, and then you have data/voice-packets on top of that..? Dec 01 09:43:17 while 3G is UMTS Dec 01 09:43:36 RobbieThe1st: kinda, yes Dec 01 09:43:57 Or are the encoded voice packets sent over a different system? Dec 01 09:44:08 voice packets are not over GPRS but rather side-by-side to it Dec 01 09:44:14 Ah Dec 01 09:44:56 So, a carrier could have GSM service with no GPRS setup, and you'd get voice but no data of any kinfd Dec 01 09:44:59 while old school CSD is data over vice band Dec 01 09:45:02 voice* Dec 01 09:45:22 yes, in theory that'd be possible Dec 01 09:46:13 otoh MMS are over GPRS, so it's quite likely every carrier supports GPRS Dec 01 09:47:19 UMTS is a bit different iirc Dec 01 09:47:31 ah Dec 01 09:47:46 there iirc voice are actually a special form of data packets Dec 01 09:48:03 wasn't some high-school student involved in inventing UMTS? Dec 01 09:48:59 there's always a (ex) highschool student involved at some point in time, in any project Dec 01 09:52:17 hm http://www.wallstreet-online.de/diskussion/199528-1-10/achtung-umts-durch-jugendforscht-ueberholt Dec 01 09:55:46 DocScrutinizer: lol Dec 01 09:58:18 RobbieThe1st, GSM/GPRS/EGPRS: GSM is voice, and if active, suspends data. GPRS is data with about 1KB/s up and 4KB/s down. EGPRS can get to 20KB/s down. Both of them have hurtful latency, usually in the 200-400ms range on ping. Dec 01 09:58:45 Makes sense. Dec 01 10:03:21 RobbieThe1st, UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA: UMTS is 8KB/s up, 40KB/s down, latency similar to GPRS. HSDPA speeds download up to 7.2MBit/s (in practice in Austria/Germany I usually managed downloads up to 200KB/s), and it lowers the latency to (just measured) around 80ms. HSUPA is the upstream speedup, sorry no idea what the max is, I think something like 1-2mbit/s. Dec 01 10:03:35 RobbieThe1st, The difference is that GPRS was an afterthought for GSM, UMTS was built with data in mind from the start. UMTS does not interrupt data while voice is active. Dec 01 10:04:01 Interesting. I've never been able to use 3G(nor GPRS really), due to not having a data plan Dec 01 10:04:06 RobbieThe1st, the latency thing you'd notice with online games and if you try to use say ssh interactively. Dec 01 10:04:30 What shall I say. Dec 01 10:04:36 I've been on satellite internet(1s ping), I know what that's like. Dec 01 10:04:58 The US are slightly different then the rest of the world and not necessary better when it comes to mobile communication. Dec 01 10:05:33 Guest98291: the ssh latency is pissing ppl off ;) my provider is kind of lower ping than the others Dec 01 10:05:57 RobbieThe1st, anyway, my experience is for a mobile like the N900, if you are on the run, EGRPS is the best comprise in usability (webpages usually load fast enough) and battery lifetime. Dec 01 10:06:20 Just learn to type "blind"; A bit of a pain, but it works. And yea, that would make sense Dec 01 10:06:35 chem|st, don't think so, I mean most people associate Internet still with the IE icon, ... Dec 01 10:06:36 That's what, 2.5G according to the phone? Dec 01 10:07:12 RobbieThe1st, yeah, but you need to have an active data connection to see it. If you have no data connection, the phone shows only 2G. Dec 01 10:07:34 Guest98291: well most of my friends buy those kind of phones to have a proper ssh client on the run Dec 01 10:08:04 Not so in the US(Tmobile) - It will show 2.5g and 3G, but only provide access to(at best) T-mobile's "walled garden" micro-network. Dec 01 10:08:05 chem|st, that's what get me pissed of, my provider thinks it's enough to have GPRS/UMTS/HSDPA in cities, and upgrades the cities with LTE, but no EGPRS in the city for me :( Dec 01 10:08:21 So, I suppose technically I have data, but no data plan. Either way... Dec 01 10:08:24 Guest98291: whats you rpovider Dec 01 10:08:50 chem|st, well, the n900 is kind of a phone that you don't just happen to buy, you usually know you want that one :-P Dec 01 10:09:14 chem|st, A1 or to be exact bob (which is the discount branch "virtual network") in Austria. Dec 01 10:09:49 RobbieThe1st, take care, because you might have a pay-as-you-go data-plan with $ amounts per MB per default, ... Dec 01 10:10:09 Guest98291: sure the friends with n900 know what they bought and others have turned WinMo phones into droids... Dec 01 10:10:23 Guest98291: I know them ;) Dec 01 10:11:01 Nah, I looked it up - I -am- on a pay-as-you-go plan, but as they don't let you have access to the open internet(on -any- port), they don't charge for it. Dec 01 10:11:09 RobbieThe1st, one of the popular things herearound some couple years ago were "branded" phones with a Internet (WAP) button that you could not reassign, which caused many people to dial in into WAP and pay a couple of Euros just for pressing the button by mistake. Dec 01 10:11:51 chem|st, Well, let's be truthful, for an emergency (and that's all the kbd/display make sense for) one can live with GPRS. Dec 01 10:12:15 I live in Germany but am Austrian (Villach), my grandparents got 3 for the laptop which is good for data but the hell of a bill if you call once Dec 01 10:12:32 That sounds like something that would happen in the US, aside from the fact that over here data is almost always sold as part of a monthly package, and not per-mb either Dec 01 10:12:39 Sigh, nickserv likes me again ;) Dec 01 10:13:16 Why charge people a few $ when you can make them pay $50/month minimum, then cut them off if they ever use more than 5GB in a month? Dec 01 10:14:21 chem|st, Well, 3 is not so cool, they've got only UMTS. (Hence as a phone provider they suck no battery saving GSM offered, they don't want to talk if the GSM-roaming with A1 is still working). The only cool part about 3.at is "3-like-home", if you happen to be in a country with a 3 network. Dec 01 10:14:35 chem|st, like me who has to be in the UK from time to time. Dec 01 10:15:41 yacc: for the "globe" button was a workaround quiet easy, deaktivated its use on several phones and turned of 3G networking, people were fascinated by 100% more battery life and a nice picture of a cat showing when they accidentially hit the globe button Dec 01 10:15:58 yacc: what's wrong with nickserv? you know about `/ns ghost` and `/ns release` ? Dec 01 10:16:20 chem|st, actually, in Vienna at a good place (a couple dozen meters above ground), A1 normally does HSDPA with around 200KB/s while 3 (I had a prepaid SIM to use up) did only UMTS :( Dec 01 10:16:31 DocScrutinizer: no idea why it named be Guest..... Dec 01 10:16:59 yacc: I guess you have an enforcer enabled on your nick Dec 01 10:17:16 yacc: they got hsdpa like always Dec 01 10:17:24 DocScrutinizer: yeah but xchat autoidentifies. Dec 01 10:17:54 chem|st, yeah, depends upon your place, but UMTS only in Vienna is not necessarily a good sign. Dec 01 10:18:12 yacc: that's bad yes Dec 01 10:18:19 yacc: hmm, only if you correctly ghost, otherwise you can't reuse the nick Dec 01 10:18:25 my camera stopped working out of the blue Dec 01 10:18:46 also auto-id works best via server-identification Dec 01 10:18:57 authentication* Dec 01 10:19:13 myu: anything like hdrcapture blessn900 or alike installed? Dec 01 10:19:25 ""server password: 'user:passwd' "" Dec 01 10:20:21 myu: update your fcam pkg from extras-devel Dec 01 10:20:51 RobbieThe1st, the situation that somehow made me intuitively was when about 10 years ago, I went out with some friends of my cousin in Canada, and these "young-adults" where using payphones to coordinate. While I had a mobile roaming in my jacket. And it was not my first mobile so to say. Dec 01 10:20:56 ah nevermind Dec 01 10:21:03 a restore fixed it Dec 01 10:21:23 Im pretty sure my fcam was up to date Dec 01 10:21:28 this phone isnt even a week old Dec 01 10:21:38 unless the update was this weekend Dec 01 10:21:43 RobbieThe1st, some years ago I checked, Canadians had to pay more per MB data then me while roaming. Is that sick? Dec 01 10:21:58 also this might sound like a stupid question but how do I check what pr im on? Dec 01 10:22:23 myu: go settings -> about Dec 01 10:22:44 myu: settings -> about product Dec 01 10:23:32 20.2010.36-2 is latest PR1.2 for all others go to tablets-dev and lookup the numbers... Dec 01 10:23:46 s/PR1.2/PR1.3/ Dec 01 10:23:47 chem|st meant: 20.2010.36-2 is latest PR1.3 for all others go to tablets-dev and lookup the numbers... Dec 01 10:24:13 yacc: Yea. Dec 01 10:24:14 ah im on pr 1.2 then Dec 01 10:24:23 myu, what makes you think that phones in the store are uptodate concerning the software? Dec 01 10:24:39 myu: you saw the typo? Dec 01 10:24:55 oh Dec 01 10:25:02 pl 1.3 then Dec 01 10:25:05 36-2 is PR1.3 Dec 01 10:25:12 I thought I had to install fcam yacc Dec 01 10:25:22 thats why I thought it was up to date Dec 01 10:25:23 myu: you dont have to Dec 01 10:25:24 myu, the phone is produces some time before you get it, hence you get the version that was current then or even an older one. Dec 01 10:25:31 either way the problem is solved Dec 01 10:26:19 FUCK! my very first spam SMS: "to all FACEBOOK users..." THANKS asshole unknown, for telling facebook about my phone number >:-(( Dec 01 10:26:54 fcam is an additional/replacing software stack for camera, makes you capable of low level control Dec 01 10:27:12 DocScrutinizer51: have you send a private msg with your number to someone? Dec 01 10:27:26 Wonder if they are allowed to do that in Germany without your consent, ... Dec 01 10:27:39 yacc: no they dont Dec 01 10:27:53 sometimes I actually send emails that contain my private number Dec 01 10:28:23 Verbraucherzentrale complaint or whatever they are called in Germany? Dec 01 10:28:38 DocScrutinizer51: well emails is another topic, as long as you have been intelligent enough to not give FB your email account details... Dec 01 10:28:41 yep, considering that Dec 01 10:29:09 I never even touched FB Dec 01 10:30:00 then it is random, but sms do not go without number, tell verbraucherzentrale about it ;) Dec 01 10:30:20 yep Dec 01 10:30:41 or someone else got you in google-contacts and allowed FB to read it ;) Dec 01 10:30:53 maybe MyNokia... errhm *cough* Dec 01 10:31:07 facebook is known to be the first grade identity theft platform nowadays Dec 01 10:31:43 chem|st: that's what I guess has happened, so I said "thanks a*hole unknown..." Dec 01 10:32:58 I would give a large shout at the current call (cannot remember who) from privacy activists to FB Dec 01 10:34:18 Well, actually SMS can come with a wrong sender shown, especially when they are sent abroad. Dec 01 10:34:58 chem|st, consider that there are websites that allow to send you SMS with your own number, ... Dec 01 10:35:13 chem|st, so they have to fake that, e.g. sipgate.de when I remember right. Dec 01 10:37:26 hmm, this SMS came without phone number Dec 01 10:38:06 "MCC GmbH" - nothing else Dec 01 10:39:23 DocScrutinizer51: https://www.bigbrotherawards.de/nominate Dec 01 10:40:41 yacc: it is not allowed to commercially contact people in germany without valid phonenumber Dec 01 10:41:05 since fall of 2009 Dec 01 10:42:56 the problem with all laws saying you need to identify yourself is that if you don't identify yourself, they don't know who to blame Dec 01 10:43:06 lol Dec 01 10:48:22 even if they identify themselves by advertising their product, they can claim one of the advertising agencies must've been responsible even though they asked them not to Dec 01 10:55:36 BCMM: even then is the company responsible Dec 01 10:58:32 chem|st, yeah, it's not allowed, and how do you prevent it if it's send with the number of a prepaid SIM in Venezuala? Dec 01 11:07:10 ... or with 'sending ''number''' = "MCC GmbH:" Dec 01 11:08:45 alas on maemo it's not really possible to look at raw data of an SMS - I hate that Dec 01 11:16:21 damn, is facebook associated with Google? Dec 01 11:17:05 no, if anything they are major rivals ;-) Dec 01 11:17:17 hmm Dec 01 11:17:20 hi Dec 01 11:18:48 so it's unlikely my major sin of 1 week ago which was asking google streetview to send me a coordinate per SMS, was the reason I get a SMS "To all FaceBook users: blablabla" now Dec 01 11:19:07 <_|Nix|_> Venemo_N900: Solved that problem. I had a duplicate line in my debian/control ... very unintuitive error message though (== no error message - just FAILED). Dec 01 11:20:18 DocScrutinizer: I don't think its likely, but you never can tell ;-) Google recently barred facebook from using api's in google until facebook reciprocates. Dec 01 11:21:32 know what? it's the webpage of the handy repair center (MCC Nokia care) where my N900 was fixed :-S Dec 01 11:23:14 nyargh, bad nights' sleep, again. :( Dec 01 11:25:48 alterego, i find 5 hours of sleep enough to functions for 16h Dec 01 11:25:52 function even Dec 01 11:27:59 hehe Dec 01 11:28:43 LOL, those morons. "hello! Why do you send me spam SMS? I'm not amused! And - even worse - I'm not even a facebook user, so this SMS is double-stupid" A: "Oh, we couldn't know. What's your name and number? We'll delete you from that list" Dec 01 11:28:51 damn, my n900 woke me up in 5pm. Just because in last google sync all appointments moves earlier by 6 hours Dec 01 11:30:18 ~ 5 + 16 Dec 01 11:30:18 21 Dec 01 11:30:23 hmmm Dec 01 11:31:43 rmrfchik: rotfl Dec 01 11:32:54 Any major reason not to go to r1.3 on the N900? Dec 01 11:34:40 DocScrutinizer: it's funny, but what to do now? can't fix it :( Dec 01 11:35:21 krayon: i got loop reboot with kernel-power, so now with stock kernel in 1.3 (and lost overclock) Dec 01 11:35:53 Ive read about netstory malfunctioning Dec 01 11:35:59 but I havent experienced that Dec 01 11:36:01 rmrfchik: :S Not the most convincing argument for. Did you flash fresh? Dec 01 11:37:40 DocScrutinizer, what's a quick way to check battery life with i2cset? Dec 01 11:37:43 krayon: 1st try was OTA, next 3 was reflash Dec 01 11:38:11 rmrfchik: I guess messing around a bit with timezones on google and on N900 might fix it Dec 01 11:38:13 after reflash n900 restored app list from backup, reinstall kernel-power, fall into reboot loop Dec 01 11:38:31 DocScrutinizer51: hope so Dec 01 11:40:14 MohammadAG: err wut? quick way to make an omelette with a submarine? Dec 01 11:40:38 my bad, i2cget :P Dec 01 11:40:52 not much better Dec 01 11:41:14 MohammadAG: use dbus? Dec 01 11:41:27 you can read out bq27200 notion f time-to-empty Dec 01 11:41:32 Or is this when you've killed bme? :) Dec 01 11:41:34 alterego, bme is off Dec 01 11:42:12 DBus probably wont work then :D Dec 01 11:43:03 hal won't work then Dec 01 11:45:27 MohammadAG: check bq27200.sh Dec 01 11:47:11 is there some way to make shortcuts open multiple instances of a program Dec 01 11:47:18 instead of just switching to the app Dec 01 11:47:37 myu: that depends a lot on the app, and most aren't like that. Dec 01 11:47:43 xterm? Dec 01 11:48:06 I can get xterm to run twice by opening another app that runs in it Dec 01 11:48:08 I just use the keyboard shortcut for xterm. Dec 01 11:48:21 Don't have a desktop shortcut. Dec 01 11:48:56 oh shit Dec 01 11:48:59 thanks Dec 01 11:49:02 that works great Dec 01 11:49:12 myu: yes i modified the xterm desktop thingy to open multiple xterms Dec 01 11:49:15 myu: that's a funny finding Dec 01 11:49:16 default behavior is bad Dec 01 11:49:23 Though I do have a power menu button that opens an ssh connection to my main server. Dec 01 11:49:49 well how do you do that? pupnik Dec 01 11:50:16 i copied the desktop shortcut to a new file and started mucking with it Dec 01 11:50:30 don't have the file anymore Dec 01 11:50:41 myu: I guess you can bribe pupnik to tell you how to edit .desktop Dec 01 11:50:56 X multiple instances or something Dec 01 11:51:07 yep Dec 01 11:52:01 have to check that meego xterm displays all 16 colors properly Dec 01 11:52:39 can't break the roguelikes /again/ Dec 01 11:58:42 Urgh: "but I'm not a developper at all. Dec 01 11:58:43 only a tech ingeneer" Dec 01 12:25:10 * MohammadAG wonders if he can request a gline Dec 01 12:26:07 Start spamming porn? Dec 01 12:27:03 SpeedEvil, somehow I don't think MohammadAG meant against himself Dec 01 12:27:27 SpeedEvil, i'll consider that Dec 01 12:27:36 Termana, I did :p Dec 01 12:27:57 MohammadAG, oh. Why, are you spending too much time on IRC and not enough on studying? :p Dec 01 12:28:22 Do you want me to call your mum? Dec 01 12:30:11 alterego: heh Dec 01 12:30:20 sivang: ? Dec 01 12:30:29 Oh, that comment :D Dec 01 12:30:30 Termana, part of the reason lol Dec 01 12:31:11 Mohammad: Anything new on the SSU front? Dec 01 12:31:24 alterego: ingeneer Dec 01 12:31:41 sadly, no, no one's helping Dec 01 12:31:42 alterego: but yes, that comment Dec 01 12:31:55 MohammadAG: Sorry Dec 01 12:32:06 :) Dec 01 12:32:10 MohammadAG: I'd like to in principle, but... Dec 01 12:32:21 I can help if you happen to need snow for it. Dec 01 12:32:30 * SpeedEvil gets a bubble-mailer. Dec 01 12:32:39 Snow? Dec 01 12:32:42 Is that some kind of drug Dec 01 12:32:46 yes. Dec 01 12:32:47 We don't get "snow" here Dec 01 12:32:49 :p Dec 01 12:33:04 it's sunny here Dec 01 12:33:11 It's a drug which makes children go hyper, and grannies go hypo. Dec 01 12:33:36 Well, I mean that's not entirely true. We kind of get snow in two locations. One of those being fake snow I think Dec 01 12:34:00 They cut it with other stuff Dec 01 12:34:02 :P Dec 01 13:48:53 anything that opens .csv in n900? Dec 01 13:50:17 vim Dec 01 13:50:59 myu: portabase Dec 01 13:51:50 thats the first thing that came to mind Dec 01 13:52:10 myu: with vim and sid you can edit it quiet fast Dec 01 13:52:29 its more for viewing Dec 01 13:52:34 gnumeric? Dec 01 13:52:35 cat Dec 01 13:52:59 yeah cause portabase isnt seeing my file Dec 01 13:53:07 ill try gnumeric Dec 01 13:53:09 thanks Dec 01 13:53:13 myu: not on import? Dec 01 13:53:34 it is not a porta file but you may convert it to one Dec 01 13:53:56 myu, http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Working_with_CSV_files Dec 01 13:55:26 crashanddie: handy! ;) Dec 01 14:02:26 SUCCESS! http://pastie.org/1338302 Dec 01 14:04:41 alterego: what did you do? Dec 01 14:05:05 hostmode a N900 to a N900? Dec 01 14:05:10 No Dec 01 14:05:27 I exposed two new serial devices to a USB host when the N900 is connected via PC suite mode. Dec 01 14:05:47 So you have 2 serial devices you can use for serial comms, and the third is the pnatd connection. Dec 01 14:06:03 aah Dec 01 14:06:05 Just a 4 line addition to g_nokia kernel module. Dec 01 14:06:20 mhm Dec 01 14:06:21 So now I can stream my NMEA data via serial :) Dec 01 14:06:37 heh :-) Dec 01 14:06:45 Obviously, this doesn't effect charging like Sts' method on tmo. Dec 01 14:06:55 But it does require this modified g_nokia.ko Dec 01 14:07:18 http://www.spmgame.de/partner.php?ID=268739 Dec 01 14:07:46 hmm, affect charging? sts' method? Dec 01 14:08:14 alterego: ? Dec 01 14:08:16 * DocScrutinizer wonders if a simple mingetty should do the trick Dec 01 14:08:40 Stskeeps documented a while back how to create custom serial devices when using usb, but it requires rmmod'ing g_nokia and insmodding g_serial Dec 01 14:08:50 Doing that stops usb charging. Dec 01 14:08:55 ah right Dec 01 14:08:57 mhm Dec 01 14:09:05 I've seen it myself when accidently remod Dec 01 14:09:07 Mhh. Seems like google sync now works correctly for calendars with maemo 5 Dec 01 14:09:08 _nokia Dec 01 14:09:10 His mod also meant changes to initrd I believe. Dec 01 14:09:13 well at least for 1 calendar Dec 01 14:09:25 alterego: NMEA ? Dec 01 14:09:26 Mine is just a .ko file. Dec 01 14:09:27 bye bye nuevasync Dec 01 14:09:39 sivang: it's the common GPS data format for serial communications. Dec 01 14:09:56 Shapeshifter: there are some fixes going into buteo that probably helped this, I was following some mls Dec 01 14:10:03 alterego: ah great Dec 01 14:10:12 sivang: buteo? Dec 01 14:10:12 alterego: you got source for g_nokia? Dec 01 14:10:22 DocScrutinizer: it's in kernel tree. Dec 01 14:10:27 upstream aswell. Dec 01 14:10:28 nice Dec 01 14:10:33 :nod: Dec 01 14:10:59 Shapeshifter: http://wiki.meego.com/Buteo/MTP Dec 01 14:11:06 alterego: might want to have a look for the charging bits there Dec 01 14:11:16 So, I think I'll make a custom mod, based on g_nokia (maybe g_columbus) which does what I need, when someone configures it in my app, it rmmods g_nokia and sticks mine in its' place. Dec 01 14:11:20 Shapeshifter: AFAIU this buteo is used in Maemo as well Dec 01 14:11:29 DocScrutinizer: there are a few references to power management yes. Dec 01 14:11:58 alterego: so I need a gps that can do host mode and I can use the data from the phone? Dec 01 14:12:12 sivang: aha Dec 01 14:12:14 sivang: no, you use the N900 as a GPS dongle for a computer ;) Dec 01 14:12:16 alterego: mind to share the mxr URL? Dec 01 14:13:00 DocScrutinizer: hang on I'll just get it. Dec 01 14:13:25 alterego: so the I can use marble on the computer and have it get data from the phone? Dec 01 14:13:34 better, depnding on the situation Dec 01 14:13:51 sivang: yes Dec 01 14:14:09 assuming marble is a map app Dec 01 14:14:17 sivang: yeah, my app also streams via bluetooth and UDP or TCP Dec 01 14:14:28 Acting in both slave and master modes, or server/client modes Dec 01 14:14:39 DocScrutinizer: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/gadget/nokia.c?force=1 Dec 01 14:14:43 alterego: so what is it that you app does actually? just provide the data? Dec 01 14:14:45 It should work with google earth too ;) Dec 01 14:14:49 tnx Dec 01 14:14:56 sivang: it does the bluetooth/udp/tcp streaming Dec 01 14:15:03 sivang: while the module only does the serial one Dec 01 14:15:07 (afaiui) Dec 01 14:15:25 sivang: that is one of it's primary functions, the other is it's a handheld GPS app: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/index.html Dec 01 14:15:38 N900 has no NMEA to start with Dec 01 14:16:22 Yeah, I format the information gained from Qt Mobility geolocation into NMEA sentences and stream over one of the above transports. Dec 01 14:16:38 alterego: and you do that in kernel-land too for the g_nokia stuff? Dec 01 14:16:41 I'm now going to implement a USB serial dongle transport. Dec 01 14:16:47 well maybe it actually has NMEA *somewhere* (inside cellmo) but you can't access it Dec 01 14:17:13 Corsac: no, network and bluetooth is user space. I just thought it'd be nice to be able to act like a USB serial GPS dongle as well. That's way the modified kernel module comes in. Dec 01 14:17:27 As it creates two new serial devices for people to use when plugged in to a host. Dec 01 14:17:49 alterego: so you still need your app to run to feed the serial device? Dec 01 14:17:56 Corsac: exactly. Dec 01 14:18:00 ok :) Dec 01 14:18:18 Corsac: but my app is very power/processor friendly when not being actively viewed ;) Dec 01 14:18:48 I got >4 hours streaming the other night when I left it on by accident, battery seamed about 75%, but don't quote me on that, I need to run proper power consumption tests ;) Dec 01 14:19:00 s/seamed/seemed// Dec 01 14:19:09 alterego: you might need an iconify mode, just like MohammadAG's h-e-n GUI Dec 01 14:19:21 (h-e-n?) Dec 01 14:19:50 h-e-n? Dec 01 14:19:50 ~hostmode Dec 01 14:19:51 well, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=869527#post869527 Dec 01 14:19:53 alterego: very very nice Dec 01 14:19:54 DocScrutinizer: I might, but it goes idle when in the background aswell. Dec 01 14:19:57 alterego: I like the UI Dec 01 14:20:10 alterego: all of this is QML? Dec 01 14:20:13 So it would only be required if you wanted to clean up the task switcher ;) Dec 01 14:20:16 alterego: background hmm Dec 01 14:20:48 sivang: no, that's all Qt, I've been porting my widgets to QML though, gearing up to a MeeGo port, but at the moment my development efforts are making that stable, in plain Qt, for Maemo 5. Dec 01 14:20:52 is there a way to run standartized power consumption tests for an app for maemo? Dec 01 14:21:01 alterego: yeah, maybe on hildon an iconify mode is nonsense :-D Dec 01 14:21:08 alterego: fair deal. looks nice, I like it. Dec 01 14:21:26 iconfigy is like suppose dto make the app less power hungry when not in useD? Dec 01 14:21:36 like, "don't draw or work now" Dec 01 14:21:43 DocScrutinizer: I can see it being useful to have a "daemon" mode, in which case a status bar applet would be awesome. But I really don't think it matters. Dec 01 14:21:54 And my UI is pretty, why would you not want it open? ^.^ Dec 01 14:22:16 :-D Dec 01 14:22:29 alterego: how did you come up with the compass UI? very nice and sort of smiilar to real compass, did you draw it? Dec 01 14:22:33 sivang: not all apps, I wrote mine to disconnect UI updates when not running in the foreground. So in that case it just does it's configured datalogging tasks. Dec 01 14:22:36 alterego: it'd really nice to have it open :) Dec 01 14:22:49 sivang: all custom widgets developed by me :P Dec 01 14:23:15 To move between those displays you use your finger and swipe from right-to-left/left-to-right :) Dec 01 14:23:42 alterego: will it be open sourced? Dec 01 14:24:10 sivang: well, my plan was to sell it, but if I manage to get a job (had some progress with that now) I will probably release it open and into extras. Dec 01 14:24:31 alterego: ah, nice, as I'd be interested to look at the widgets code :) Dec 01 14:24:52 Even if I was to sell it, I'd be happy to share some of the code anyway :P Dec 01 14:26:50 Why is it that the trend in input devices has to be towards crap. . . . Dec 01 14:27:22 GAN900: ? Dec 01 14:28:24 Logitech had reached the pinnacle of mice evolution with the MX Revolution Dec 01 14:28:37 Then they had to go and make the next cheap and shitty. Dec 01 14:29:30 they have to offer a cheaper alternative Dec 01 14:29:47 or is it the next in the MX line youre reffering to? Dec 01 14:29:57 hi, will installing applications manually via xterm (eg, wget) cause trouble? Dec 01 14:30:05 And fuel their profit margins with goldilocks pricing schemes. Dec 01 14:30:14 frank_: generally no. Dec 01 14:30:24 The new MX line Dec 01 14:30:33 frank_: just don't use it to perform system OTA updates, normal packages should be fine. Dec 01 14:30:42 They got rid of buttons, they got rid of the revolutionary scroll wheel. Dec 01 14:30:48 Now it's useless. Dec 01 14:30:55 I couldn't live without my scrollwheel .. Dec 01 14:31:11 alterego: ok, thanks Dec 01 14:31:29 frank_: depends on what you install... Dec 01 14:32:04 * DocScrutinizer pets his mx revolution Dec 01 14:32:14 frank_: and if not optified it will fillup your root partition Dec 01 14:32:16 oh well thats just bad GAN Dec 01 14:32:16 GAN900: apple has come to a nice design I guess Dec 01 14:32:26 GAN900: its all touch, even on a mouse Dec 01 14:32:32 yeah you gotta be careful with extras_devel frank Dec 01 14:32:33 sivang: I was lost using an Apple the other day .. Dec 01 14:32:47 alterego: never managed to use it myself, but people here love it Dec 01 14:32:48 I managed to get to grips with it. Dec 01 14:32:58 But tap and hold really pisses me off on desktop machines .. Dec 01 14:33:32 well, the ultimate pointing device is the trackpoint anyway Dec 01 14:34:21 sivang, useless thing. Dec 01 14:34:30 The touch gestures are awkward. Dec 01 14:35:56 heh, 2 finger swipe on trackpoint :-P Dec 01 14:35:56 GAN900: true, but you know what they say "you can't innovate like apple" :) Dec 01 14:38:22 sivang, theres only so many things you can do with just an apple, but given a well stocked larder and kitchen you can make a banquet Dec 01 14:38:52 lcuk: heh, true Dec 01 14:40:09 sivang, in the past, a group of coders got together, they were called the stone soup group - they wrote fractint together Dec 01 14:40:28 the idea behind the stone soup was that each person might have one single ingredient Dec 01 14:40:37 and if they were selfish, they might not have a great time Dec 01 14:40:50 fractint! Dec 01 14:41:02 but if they worked together and put their ingredients into the melting pot then the whole town would have an amazing soup Dec 01 14:41:12 :) a wonderful metaphor Dec 01 14:41:34 indeed. Dec 01 14:43:27 I spent so many sleepless nights to see what other bizarre figures I coudl get out of this amazing piece of software Dec 01 14:44:49 sivang, :) i read the code and books on the subject from cover to cover many times before i had internet Dec 01 14:46:39 lcuk: my parents thought I went crazy sitting all night long, skipping high school or late, after staring at the glaring screen that took awfully lot of time to draw Dec 01 14:46:43 :) Dec 01 14:47:19 sivang, heh Dec 01 14:48:05 the first time I drew mandelbrot set was after filling in code on my zx spectrum and waiting for 24hours for a black and white single static shot of the opening Dec 01 14:48:36 more recently, on the n810 I had a navigatable realtime rendering version in my hand :) Dec 01 14:50:47 lcuk: farout Dec 01 14:52:21 haha those French are incredibly silly! I got a german/french bilingua TV chan here. Announcement: title (german->en, for your convenience): "Living with Aids." Title(fr): "Good Bye SIDA" (sic!) Dec 01 14:54:08 not "Good Bye AIDS" neither "A bientot SIDA" Dec 01 15:02:54 DocScrutinizer, there's a difference between literal translation and translation. Dec 01 15:03:30 crashanddie: that's not been my point Dec 01 15:04:08 what was it then? Dec 01 15:04:19 probably I should have omitted the german title all together Dec 01 15:05:34 the french funny habit to even translate well known acronyms, just to use them together with english then Dec 01 15:06:12 * GAN900 shudders at disgusting chewers. Dec 01 15:06:21 oh Dec 01 15:07:00 DocScrutinizer, probably because most people know what Good bye means, but not AIDS? Dec 01 15:08:20 they're not supposed to know or even use "good bye" when they refuse to know AIDS or NATO Dec 01 15:08:52 I really don't believe it's refusal, just chicken and egg problem Dec 01 15:09:10 * MohammadAG sighs at people mounting mice Dec 01 15:09:29 MohammadAG, gross. Dec 01 15:09:37 lool how would it even fit Dec 01 15:10:02 I so want hen to detect if someone pressed mount when connecting a mouse, then show a hildon banner with "wtf?" in it Dec 01 15:10:26 MohammadAG, or a message "dude, seriously?" Dec 01 15:10:53 MohammadAG, do you have the same WTF when they connect a mouse and keyboard and plug into videoout? Dec 01 15:11:02 :) i think thats a perfectly viable/expected thing Dec 01 15:11:21 lcuk, you should see symbian's forums Dec 01 15:11:36 i like my sanity. Dec 01 15:11:40 MohammadAG: my mouse emulates a hub and a pen drive Dec 01 15:11:43 now what? Dec 01 15:11:45 with people asking if it's possible to charge with old nokia chargers using the 3.5mm jack Dec 01 15:11:55 hahahahaha Dec 01 15:11:58 lool Dec 01 15:12:06 or "ATTENTION! your flurb got shnolook. Dump device in toilet, run, duck and cover! NOW!!" Dec 01 15:12:18 (well, the ipod shuffle does *that*) Dec 01 15:14:58 kerio & MohammadAG: http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/500/Converting_a_7800GT.jpg Dec 01 15:15:03 /tmp's cleared on a reboot right? Dec 01 15:16:01 oh god, LOL Dec 01 15:18:01 ROTFL Dec 01 15:18:18 gasp Dec 01 15:18:27 hey javispedro Dec 01 15:18:34 thats a sensible answer Dec 01 15:18:47 moo Dec 01 15:18:52 if it doesnt fit Dec 01 15:18:54 make it fit Dec 01 15:18:54 ~moohoho Dec 01 15:18:55 rumour has it, moohoho is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t48kkwDhfw&NR=1 Dec 01 15:19:20 myu, that's not how the IQ test works :P Dec 01 15:19:23 javispedro: http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/500/Converting_a_7800GT.jpg Dec 01 15:19:54 crashanddie: that's plain gold :-D Dec 01 15:20:15 DocScrutinizer, :) Dec 01 15:20:35 DocScrutinizer: hehe. I've also seen the N64 cartridge version, long ago. Dec 01 15:21:01 rumour has that the guy tried to return the "adapted" cartridge to the store because it won't boot his gameboy Dec 01 15:22:00 my CF card doesn't work in the N900's microSD slot Dec 01 15:23:06 try adding lube Dec 01 15:24:04 DocScrutinizer: I'm thinking of implementing a g_nokia like module that allows you to configure ACM serial ports on the fly from user space. What do you think? :) Dec 01 15:24:27 I'll expose ACM serial ports and ECM ethernet over USB Dec 01 15:25:05 I always wonder why's that not a upstream feature. Dec 01 15:25:15 my 5 and 1/4 floppy doesnt fit in my n900 Dec 01 15:25:18 help please Dec 01 15:26:55 Corsac: heh Dec 01 15:28:10 also note iirc windows has problems with composite devices being changed on the fly Dec 01 15:28:21 javispedro: hey Dec 01 15:28:56 hello sivang Dec 01 15:29:15 hey has anyone here used magread? Dec 01 15:29:35 what kind of hardware does that require? Dec 01 15:30:18 DocScrutinizer, another one that made me laugh: http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/129057249545630776.jpg Dec 01 15:30:45 * javispedro bookmarks thereifixedit.com Dec 01 15:30:58 hahahahahaha Dec 01 15:31:31 crashanddie: nice :) Dec 01 15:35:37 crashanddie: That's AWESOME! Dec 01 15:46:12 alterego, ping Dec 01 15:46:50 pong Dec 01 15:49:53 MohammadAG: ? Dec 01 15:51:03 alterego, see #146 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52239&page=15 Dec 01 15:51:21 is QProcess causing that? Dec 01 15:51:48 Interesting. Dec 01 15:53:53 MohammadAG: looks like a fork bomb :P Dec 01 15:54:04 You're opening too many processes. Dec 01 15:54:19 o_O Dec 01 15:54:26 it's only one process Dec 01 15:54:35 But you call it a load of times? Dec 01 15:55:02 nope, not that I remember that Dec 01 15:55:19 http://gitorious.org/keyboard-leds/vu Dec 01 16:03:10 can someone check what parameters pulseaudio is run with? Dec 01 16:03:25 mine isn't autostarting, but i need to make a phone call before i can reflash Dec 01 16:04:00 i should've done ps | grep pulse when it was working... Dec 01 16:04:04 --system --high-priority, but wait! Dec 01 16:04:08 try "start pulseaudio" Dec 01 16:04:15 in a root shell Dec 01 16:04:25 if it says respawning too fast, wait 2 mins or so Dec 01 16:04:32 wow Dec 01 16:04:35 just don't start it manually Dec 01 16:04:44 i've found someone who actually knows how upstart works Dec 01 16:04:46 thanks! Dec 01 16:05:16 there's a quick permanent fix Dec 01 16:05:24 MohammadAG: without a reflash? Dec 01 16:05:41 cp /opt/maemo/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 Dec 01 16:06:18 MohammadAG: ah, pulse is failing to start at boot because a lib it requires isn't available till opt is mounted? Dec 01 16:06:36 yep Dec 01 16:06:37 so why isn't everyone getting this problem? Dec 01 16:06:55 ah, FLAC support isn't in the default install? Dec 01 16:07:04 apparently, it's tied to decoders-support and is triggered randomly Dec 01 16:07:30 i figured there must be some kinda race condition, because sometimes it boots fine Dec 01 16:07:48 i guess it's a race between whatever services pulseaudio depends on, and whatever mounts opt... Dec 01 16:08:10 yep Dec 01 16:08:25 i should find that forum post again and post that... the reason i was going to reflash was because someone on the forum said they'd fixed theirs with a reflash Dec 01 16:08:25 and when pulseaudio fails to start, you get no vibration / haptic feedback Dec 01 16:08:35 and i was starting to feel i'd asked about it too much in here Dec 01 16:08:43 MohammadAG: that happens through pulse?! Dec 01 16:08:46 I've mentioned it three times here Dec 01 16:09:01 it shouldn't, but for some reason mce just drools when pulse isn't there Dec 01 16:09:17 MohammadAG: looks like the lesson is that i should look in the IRC logs instead of the forums Dec 01 16:09:21 which makes sense really Dec 01 16:09:39 three days back, I think :P Dec 01 16:11:38 thanks a lot! Dec 01 16:11:54 so is someone going to unoptify the libFLAC package a bit? Dec 01 16:13:05 hopefully the maintainer realizes it's causing problems Dec 01 16:13:21 well, have they been told? Dec 01 16:13:35 probably - not Dec 01 16:13:56 hmm, perhaps someone should... Dec 01 16:14:00 cba to do it :P http://maemo.org/packages/view/libflac8/ Dec 01 16:14:44 sorry, i don't know what cba is (and neither does /usr/bin/wtf) Dec 01 16:15:08 crudbuckets! Dec 01 16:15:22 there's no "a" in crudbuckets. Dec 01 16:15:35 heh. Dec 01 16:15:53 thanks for the link, i was about to look up how to find ou which package owns a file on debian Dec 01 16:16:11 Why the hell doesn't this database thing work with qmlviewer on my home computer when it works fine on my work computer AND on my N900?? Dec 01 16:16:14 grr argh! Dec 01 16:16:15 oh, can't be arsed i guess Dec 01 16:16:31 now i have to email the libflac package maintainer AND the wtf maintainer. Dec 01 16:17:14 can't be arsed Dec 01 16:18:30 well, i'd really better make that phone call. then i'll contact the libflac guy, thanks for the link Dec 01 16:19:50 mplayer maintainer never replied to my request, shall I compile it with libdvd support myself? Dec 01 16:22:05 is that the thing that lets it play ISO9660 filesystem images, or the thing that makes menus work? Dec 01 16:22:53 why the hell pulse depends on libFLAC? Dec 01 16:23:27 that's a point; i thought pulse got audio supplied to it by other applications, rather than knowing how to decode stuff itself... Dec 01 16:23:46 ofc, i also thought pulse made very little sense and might do anything Dec 01 16:24:49 MohammadAG: can the n900 decode a DVD in realtime, using mplayer? Dec 01 16:25:57 yeah Dec 01 16:26:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDzUG-bno6Q Dec 01 16:26:38 lag's because of skype, learned that it was a CPU rapist after making the video Dec 01 16:26:53 you can probably push it to the dsp Dec 01 16:26:59 (mpeg2 video) Dec 01 16:27:11 hi i m facing serious batery problem , i think that s cause i installed a lot of application , is there a list of well know tricks to check to prevent that problem Dec 01 16:28:05 MohammadAG: all the time, or when actually doing stuff? i've certainly noticed stuff slow down horribly every time a skype IM comes in Dec 01 16:28:24 javispedro: i thought only gstreamer stuff used the n900's DSP? Dec 01 16:28:29 exactly Dec 01 16:28:45 when receiving IMs Dec 01 16:28:54 mplayer has DND mode, notifications are suppressed Dec 01 16:29:14 MohammadAG: it's not really smooth... Dec 01 16:29:18 javispedro, gstreamer played the video with shitty performance Dec 01 16:29:35 BCMM, played it again, it was smooth, I just can't be arsed to tape it again Dec 01 16:29:50 MohammadAG: ah, ok. was that all in software or does mplayer use the dsp now? Dec 01 16:29:51 just use -fs, and disconnect from skype Dec 01 16:30:03 all in software Dec 01 16:30:11 wow, didn't know the cpu was up to that Dec 01 16:30:15 overclocked? Dec 01 16:30:19 well, CPU Dec 01 16:30:37 nope Dec 01 16:30:38 well, anything that's in software is on the cpu... Dec 01 16:30:43 oh, neat Dec 01 16:30:44 I was using -framedrop btw Dec 01 16:31:00 out of interest, does it play ok with hard framedrop? Dec 01 16:31:02 apparently, that kills performance instead of improving it Dec 01 16:31:31 it kills apparent performance Dec 01 16:31:32 it plays best with mplayer -fs -dvd Dec 01 16:31:32 haha Dec 01 16:31:46 or dvd://, can't remember Dec 01 16:31:49 what's -dvd? Dec 01 16:31:50 specially if it's only a bit overtaxed Dec 01 16:31:53 ah, that makes sense Dec 01 16:32:18 mplayer seems to express all inputs other than files and stdin as urls Dec 01 16:32:45 YUSSSS!!! Dec 01 16:33:29 the data directory where sqlite databases are created from QmlViewer was owned by root. chowned it to myself and things work as they should. Dec 01 16:39:15 troulouliou: usually anything visualizing from testing or devel will increase battery drain, anything visual on your desktop or active in background will increase it too Dec 01 16:41:25 but 2 - 3 hours , seems relly hard to accept , maybe ssh server too Dec 01 16:47:05 troulouliou: I doubt ssh server but you may setup if-up-down scripts as you like Dec 01 16:49:44 troulouliou: a quick look at your CPU times in top or htop will help, also running powertop will show what is running while your screen is off, using 3G in a weak spot will drain it faster (3G in strong spots already eats your battery) Dec 01 16:51:56 by 3G I do not mean active internet connections, I mean UMTS, it is another network and using more power than GSM, because of signal weakness Dec 01 16:57:27 chem|st: Thanks for all those tips Dec 01 17:02:50 I don't think "signal weakness" is the major power eater in 3g.. Dec 01 17:03:47 Even with same signal strength, 3g will eat considerably more than gsm Dec 01 17:05:44 hi Dec 01 17:06:08 alterego: ping Dec 01 17:08:44 bacon is awesome Dec 01 17:09:19 ieatlint: yeah, lcuk would agree with you too :P Dec 01 17:09:42 i've asked this question before, but i never get an answer... why don't bars serve bacon? you don't need a proper kitchen to cook it, it'd sell really well, and be fucking awesome Dec 01 17:10:08 lol Dec 01 17:15:13 MohammadAG: was it you asking some time ago about the internal battery? it is a small size accumulator and should last minutes mine did about 10min well and did not exceed 20min yet, so somewhere in between is the limit I guess... Dec 01 17:15:52 troulouliou: you are welcome Dec 01 17:17:17 Venemo: pong Dec 01 17:17:40 ieatlint, you are in the wrong kind of bars then Dec 01 17:18:05 apparently Dec 01 17:18:20 alterego: is it possible to use QtMobility to get some accelerometer data? Dec 01 17:18:24 i'm rather sure no bars near me are the right kind then :( Dec 01 17:18:30 alterego: I mean other than the screen orientation Dec 01 17:18:32 ieatlint, even went to a wedding this year that had bacon butties as the nibbles Dec 01 17:18:43 Venemo: I Don't think the the sensors API is implemented properly on Maemo Dec 01 17:19:19 anyone running the current ovi suite beta version? Dec 01 17:19:24 hmm, if there was an open bar too, you really got lucky Dec 01 17:19:55 alterego: it is: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0.0/ Dec 01 17:20:19 ieatlint, mmm open bars Dec 01 17:20:36 Venemo: try it then? :P Dec 01 17:20:38 * lcuk smiles fondly at Meego conf guinness pissup Dec 01 17:20:57 lcuk: did you see the latest screenshots I posted earlier? :P Dec 01 17:21:09 alterego, yes I did Dec 01 17:21:42 What did you think of the new stuff? :) Dec 01 17:22:10 There's still a little bit more todo, and I keep thinking of new things I want to add. Dec 01 17:22:17 But the UI is pretty stable for now. Dec 01 17:22:27 alterego: the questin is, do you know how to do it? Dec 01 17:22:33 then release it :) Dec 01 17:22:52 Venemo: is that documentation not good enough for you? :P Dec 01 17:22:54 like climbing a mountain, use this version as a base camp Dec 01 17:23:16 so you have something working and stable to use as reference for yourself Dec 01 17:23:18 I'm still unsure about how I'm going to release it. Dec 01 17:23:50 alterego: earn some cash with it Dec 01 17:24:08 alterego: or if you are the open source kind of guy, then make it OSS Dec 01 17:24:24 I came up with a new feature today and have just finished implementing it. Along with File, bluetooth and network data logging. I've now added USB serial profile data logging support. So my app acts like a USB serial GPS dongle when plugged into a host ^.^ Dec 01 17:24:29 And yes, it still charges :D Dec 01 17:24:41 "it still charges"? Dec 01 17:24:51 alterego: btw, what about submitting the kernel patch upstream? Dec 01 17:24:56 javispedro: along with being a GPS dongle Dec 01 17:25:03 Corsac: what kernel patch? Dec 01 17:25:12 Corsac: I'm going to work on a better mod to g_nokia that allows dynamic allocation, that to me is the proper way to do it. Dec 01 17:25:41 Something like rfcomm for usb acm Dec 01 17:26:36 javispedro: yes, and? Dec 01 17:26:54 did it ever stopped charging? Dec 01 17:27:24 alterego: as I see it, Maemo is the only platform on which the full Qt Mobility is supported Dec 01 17:27:30 It did when it couldn't load g_nokia .. Dec 01 17:27:37 hum? Dec 01 17:27:47 but g_nokia isn't loaded always Dec 01 17:28:04 When you plug it in via usb it seems to take over. Dec 01 17:28:21 not if you dismiss the dialog or select file storage iirc Dec 01 17:28:24 Venemo: i think current symbian release has similar support for it Dec 01 17:28:30 in which case g_file_storage is insmod'd Dec 01 17:28:32 javispedro: sure, I know, but g_nokia does. Dec 01 17:28:50 And there are lines in there refering to some kind of power selection/management. Dec 01 17:28:50 ieatlint: see the table on the link Dec 01 17:29:08 alterego: but as I'm saying, g_nokia isn't loaded when g_file_storage is Dec 01 17:29:21 Anyhow, my current mod just enables the two serial devices that are already created on the device ttyGS0 and ttyGS1 Dec 01 17:29:33 ttyGS2 is the only one that is initialized and is used for pnatd. Dec 01 17:29:42 nice Dec 01 17:29:59 javispedro: and you're missing the point, I said I understand, but for some reason when g_nokia is insmodded, if it's fucked charging stops working. Dec 01 17:29:59 Venemo: hmmm... i thought 1.0.2 had support there... not sure, but 1.1 is out now either way.. just not really deployed yet Dec 01 17:30:42 So with the modded g_nokia you get 2 serial devices you can actually use, the 1 for pnatd, usb networking still works as does the other OBEX PC suite related junk. Dec 01 17:30:58 ieatlint: hm, I didn't check 1.1 Dec 01 17:31:38 it's "done", but only available as beta packages for both maemo and symbian methinks Dec 01 17:31:45 heya javispedro Dec 01 17:31:58 here's the link for QtM 1.1: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0/ interestingly this table includes Harmattan too :D Dec 01 17:32:23 javispedro: if you're interested I'll upload the kernel module :) Dec 01 17:32:34 javispedro: it'll give you two nice new shiny serial ports to play with ;) Dec 01 17:32:45 i'm wondering what some of that in windos means... what messaging backend does it interface with for instance Dec 01 17:32:56 alterego: you mean you're removing g_file_storage then insert g_nokia WITHOUT replugging the cable? Dec 01 17:32:58 same for linux and such Dec 01 17:33:10 javispedro: what? Dec 01 17:33:34 that I'm yet to understand what you're doing that breaks charging. The only thing that could break charging is getting the host confused. Dec 01 17:33:38 javispedro: I've got a replacement g_nokia that acts in exactly the same way. Except it enables the two otherwise disabled serial ports. Dec 01 17:33:46 IT DOESN'T BREAK CHARGING Dec 01 17:33:52 I said it works fine. Dec 01 17:34:01 It works, like it should work. Dec 01 17:34:04 :S well. Dec 01 17:34:08 I've said that 5 times now .. Dec 01 17:34:10 hello RST38h Dec 01 17:34:27 If you select "PC suite mode" and your g_nokia is crap, the N900 wont charge. Dec 01 17:34:38 rage Dec 01 17:34:51 So g_nokia, for some reason, takes over charging when it's installed. Dec 01 17:34:59 Or has something to do with it in some way. Dec 01 17:35:11 This has nothing to do with mass storage mode Dec 01 17:35:16 Or charging only mode. Dec 01 17:36:17 alterego: so the N900 has 2 serial ports? Dec 01 17:36:27 * alterego sighs Dec 01 17:36:31 No Dec 01 17:36:53 PC suite mode makes your N900 look like it _is_ a serial port connected modem. Dec 01 17:37:13 alterego: yep Dec 01 17:37:23 This is acheived by a kernel driver based on g_serial (usb serial gadget) called g_nokia Dec 01 17:37:38 alterego: but still, I read somewhere that the N900 itself has a serial port which is only enabled in R&D mode Dec 01 17:37:58 g_nokia creates 3 serial devices which you can see in /dev/ on a stock N900, ttyGS0/1/2 Dec 01 17:38:05 YEs, there is a serial port under the battery. Dec 01 17:38:09 wut? Dec 01 17:38:12 Venemo: even if it was a true port it probably won't be using RS232 voltages so it would be useless for normal usage. Dec 01 17:38:19 No, it's UART Dec 01 17:38:19 really!? Dec 01 17:38:21 I didnt know that Dec 01 17:38:51 With some hosts it should work with RS232 though .. Dec 01 17:38:59 But don't do it unless you know what you're doing. Dec 01 17:39:04 You might blow something up :D Dec 01 17:39:20 * javispedro has lots of max232s around Dec 01 17:39:57 Anyway, if anyone wants the updated g_nokia.ko Dec 01 17:40:12 Which makes the serial ports show up on the host your N900 is connected to, allowing comms, it's here: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/g_nokia.ko Dec 01 17:40:20 bump it to the power kerne Dec 01 17:40:21 l Dec 01 17:40:33 Good idea. Dec 01 17:40:42 I'll submit a patch tomorr. Dec 01 17:40:45 ~tomorrow Dec 01 17:40:46 Tomorrow will probably suck too. Dec 01 17:40:52 Heh Dec 01 17:41:08 :D Dec 01 17:42:24 alterego: btw, about dynamic "reconfiguration", try windows as a host too. Dec 01 17:42:43 when I was toying with my palmt|x as a host I had lots of problems with its composite driver Dec 01 17:42:58 javispedro: I don't think I'l be able to make it truely dynamic. Once the USB host as enumerated the port it's done. Dec 01 17:43:00 for some reason it seems not to notice changes to descriptors Dec 01 17:43:18 What I can do is make the module accept a paramter that says how many serial devices to create when installed. Dec 01 17:43:19 I'm off watching SGU Dec 01 17:43:20 brb Dec 01 17:43:21 alterego: yes yes, I mean after replugging Dec 01 17:43:35 javispedro: that will screw up the port numbering wont it? Dec 01 17:43:49 I seem to recall my dad having some odd problems with port numbering in windows. Dec 01 17:44:01 I will test though. Dec 01 17:44:13 aiui it will just partially cache stuff Dec 01 17:44:26 a reboot or removing the device from the devmgr helped Dec 01 17:44:34 (the hidden, unplugged device) Dec 01 17:44:52 But I think my mod will actually be a module paramter that says how many serial devices to create. Then you can obviously change /etc/modprobe.d/g_nokia Dec 01 17:45:29 no other sane option... Dec 01 17:45:41 Was that a question or an agreement? ;) Dec 01 17:45:46 agreement :) Dec 01 17:45:52 :) Dec 01 17:46:14 you're doing this for NMEA? Dec 01 17:46:16 I was half expecting it to screw up my ubuntu install for tethering. Dec 01 17:46:21 Yeah, Dec 01 17:46:56 But even with the two extra serial devices, and the fact that the pnatd connected one got shunted from ACM0 to ACM2, it all worked perfectly. Dec 01 18:22:23 Howdy, codemonkies :O) Dec 01 18:22:33 Aloha :) Dec 01 18:24:54 Lets see how my new g_nokia module works with dynamic port allocation then :) Dec 01 18:25:14 10 bucks says segfault Dec 01 18:25:24 You're on :P Dec 01 18:27:45 Watch me lose. I was never any good at betting XD Dec 01 18:27:48 Well, it compiles ;) Dec 01 18:27:59 A good omen. Dec 01 18:28:44 Okay, now to copy across and test :D Dec 01 18:28:57 Testing with 5 ports (default is 3) Dec 01 18:29:29 I'm almost tempted to offer my 900 as a testbed, but I want to keep this one working for as long as is possible... Dec 01 18:32:24 hehe Dec 01 18:32:44 Compiz looks funny with multiple monitors Dec 01 18:57:23 I'd really like a second N900, I think if I get some spare cash soon I'll go for it. Dec 01 18:58:35 i think they're selling used for not too much Dec 01 19:01:48 Yeah, would be very useful for my meego and kernel dev .. Dec 01 19:12:02 also useful for pointless N900 to N900 flashing Dec 01 19:12:19 hey NooBmonk3y Dec 01 19:12:21 thats hardly pointless! Dec 01 19:12:29 * NooBmonk3y waves!! Dec 01 19:12:31 lo alls :) Dec 01 19:12:48 just be careful, you don't want to wake up with a baby n900 Dec 01 19:12:54 Heh Dec 01 19:13:02 also useful for the hardly pointless N900 to N900 flashing Dec 01 19:13:11 :P Dec 01 19:13:25 lcuk, why? I'd love an N900 junior Dec 01 19:13:26 puppies and n900! Dec 01 19:13:31 I heard they bite though Dec 01 19:13:49 MohammadAG, n900-mini would be awesome Dec 01 19:14:38 I'd buy one if it was released Dec 01 19:14:48 or an N910 Dec 01 19:15:02 resistive screen please!! Dec 01 19:15:24 with 1GHz, 512MBs RAM, 64GBs space, rest is the same Dec 01 19:15:40 oh, and an extra antenna for BT, using the same for WLAN/BT is... Dec 01 19:20:44 yeah, they could even put the antenna on the outside of the case so it gets better reception Dec 01 19:24:16 i want a n8 with debian on it Dec 01 19:29:15 * NooBmonk3y is confused Dec 01 19:30:00 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0/ has sensors in it... why does the maemo package not include sensors, and why has someone else's build with sensors built successfully? lol! Dec 01 19:31:34 NooBmonk3y: because they fail at packaging, and nobody complained yet? ;) Dec 01 19:31:55 javispedro, possibly - can't believe i am the first :| Dec 01 19:32:06 NooBmonk3y: i'd probably search tmo, and post if there's no one else with the same issue Dec 01 19:32:17 will probably get noticed more there Dec 01 19:32:43 ieatlint, have looked, nothing :P and the error produces 0 google results, never seen that b4 Dec 01 19:32:47 x-fade was stumped too :( Dec 01 19:32:59 but did suggest it wasnt in the package Dec 01 19:33:03 only thing that makes sense Dec 01 19:34:15 ooo wow when did these pages appear?! Dec 01 19:34:17 http://library.maemodocs.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp?topic=/qt-mobility/html/index.html Dec 01 19:36:01 NooBmonk3y: hi :) Dec 01 19:36:09 NooBmonk3y: did you manage to solve your issue? Dec 01 19:36:09 Hey Venemo :) :) Dec 01 19:42:43 Venemo, nope :( Dec 01 19:42:51 just emailed nokia/Trolltech asking for help! Dec 01 19:43:10 aas i think it may be that the qtm-dev package is literally missing the sensors module :( Dec 01 19:43:22 NooBmonk3y, filed bug ? Dec 01 19:43:32 NooBmonk3y: then how is it that it built for me in my Scratchbox? Dec 01 19:43:46 lcuk, emailed qt-mobility-feedback@trolltech.com Dec 01 19:43:47 Okay, there's a maximum of 4 usb serial ports Dec 01 19:43:59 Venemo, no idea, Keeps doesnt either Dec 01 19:44:01 alterego: endpoint limit? Dec 01 19:44:15 Seems so Dec 01 19:44:25 NooBmonk3y: ouch :( Dec 01 19:44:27 When you try to create more the device restarts. Dec 01 19:44:33 aka panics :) Dec 01 19:45:00 probably endpoint limit Dec 01 19:45:04 Venemo, i'm sooooooooo confused, but healthcheck would be useless without sensor checks lol Dec 01 19:45:10 on the pxa gadget driver it was quite low Dec 01 19:45:15 So, when someone specifies more than 4, shall I fail to do any, or create the maximum. Dec 01 19:49:55 NooBmonk3y: yeah... :S Dec 01 20:12:04 NooBmonk3y, can I have a go at it? :3 Dec 01 20:12:13 MohammadAG, ? Dec 01 20:13:53 * MohammadAG so wants to sue broadcom Dec 01 20:13:59 NooBmonk3y, sec, I'll try to get this working Dec 01 20:14:02 ?! Dec 01 20:14:05 what hey? Dec 01 20:14:10 * NooBmonk3y is watching a movie, brb! Dec 01 20:14:11 if it does, I need two guitars and a drumkit Dec 01 20:14:13 kthxbye Dec 01 20:14:16 lol Dec 01 20:16:21 MohammadAG: :) Dec 01 20:16:38 MohammadAG: what did broadcom do to you? Dec 01 20:16:40 and seriously, use Greg Reborts, "greg" isn't the right way Dec 01 20:16:53 Reborts is Roberts, isn't it? Dec 01 20:17:05 my laptop gets 150MBps with Windows, 2 with linux Dec 01 20:17:09 Roberts, my bad Dec 01 20:17:17 (why did I say Reborts) Dec 01 20:17:40 NooBmonk3y, I'm not stumped ld: cannot find -lQtSensors Dec 01 20:17:44 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status Dec 01 20:19:03 wait wtf Dec 01 20:19:09 libqtm-dev isn't being pulled in Dec 01 20:20:39 NooBmonk3y, rewrite debian/control, something is so fucked up in it Dec 01 20:23:20 MohammadAG, have re-written it, started afresh and let qt creator do it this time Dec 01 20:23:36 * NooBmonk3y lols Dec 01 20:23:40 Reborts! Dec 01 20:23:58 rebort? Dec 01 20:24:03 Not caring about names, descriptions yet, just building it :p Dec 01 20:24:11 dpkg-buildpackage isn't complaining about missing packages Dec 01 20:24:12 can faff with that later when i get it ready for testing :p Dec 01 20:24:16 nope :| Dec 01 20:24:18 even when libqtm-dev isn't available Dec 01 20:24:29 but autobuilder is :| Dec 01 20:24:41 WTF Dec 01 20:24:43 Unpacking replacement libqtm-dev ... Dec 01 20:24:43 dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libqtm-dev_1%3a1.0.2-maemo4+0m5_armel.deb (--unpack): Dec 01 20:24:43 trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libQtServiceFramework.so', which is also in package libqtm-serviceframework Dec 01 20:24:54 lol! Dec 01 20:25:11 Nice .. Dec 01 20:25:12 * javispedro cackles Dec 01 20:25:22 That's pretty horrible. Dec 01 20:25:51 * NooBmonk3y grins Dec 01 20:25:58 NooBmonk3y, you're not using the "raw" source Dec 01 20:26:09 or it's not clean Dec 01 20:26:17 re Dec 01 20:27:04 NooBmonk3y, Qt Creator makes three directories, Healthcheck, Healthcheck-build-desktop and Healthcheck-build-maemo Dec 01 20:27:14 tar the files in Healthcheck and upload them somewhere Dec 01 20:27:21 using it from the qt project folder Dec 01 20:27:25 brb 2 mins Dec 01 20:27:31 MohammadAG: one thing. the autobuilder was unable to build his stuff, but my scratchbox successfully did it Dec 01 20:27:38 it shouldn't have ui_.h in it Dec 01 20:27:45 Venemo, mine didn't Dec 01 20:28:02 did you 'fakeroot apt-get install libqtm-*' ? Dec 01 20:28:12 makes sense, no build depends on libqtm-sensors Dec 01 20:28:12 mine did after that Dec 01 20:28:21 who's doing a shitty job of maintaining libqtm packages? Dec 01 20:28:33 hm Dec 01 20:28:41 probably the same guy who had the idea that Qt Creator should make .debs on every build Dec 01 20:29:31 sigh Dec 01 20:29:46 Venemo: the autobuilder is more picky because it uses the squeeze toolchain. Dec 01 20:30:07 so it has a file that overwrites one in a package it depends on, AND libqtm-dev doesn't depend on -sensors Dec 01 20:30:09 javispedro: I thought it uses the same Scratchbox that we do Dec 01 20:30:33 MohammadAG: NooBmonk3y tried to add libqtm-sensors to his build-depends, but he got the same error Dec 01 20:30:59 Venemo: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-April/025870.html Dec 01 20:31:03 Venemo, I see no libqtm-sensors in his latest upload Dec 01 20:31:21 Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-dev, libqtm-dev Dec 01 20:31:35 MohammadAG: he told so and I believed him Dec 01 20:31:44 MohammadAG: that was yesterday though Dec 01 20:31:45 Also, NooBmonk3y rather than depending on each Qt package, and you might miss a lot, depend on ${shlibs:Depends} Dec 01 20:32:40 Venemo, https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/healthcheck_2.9.1/sources/healthcheck_2.9.1.dsc Dec 01 20:32:58 mhm Dec 01 20:34:50 I uploaded a version with libqtm-sensors in it Dec 01 20:35:26 * MohammadAG stabs broadcom's linux drivers Dec 01 20:38:19 seems like it's building, it hasn't error'd out yet Dec 01 20:40:06 well... back on the cliq for android lol Dec 01 20:40:13 hope nitdroid gets there :) Dec 01 20:40:18 and back to maemo on the n900 Dec 01 20:41:24 NooBmonk3y, # [extras-builds] [fremantle]: healthcheck 2.9.1 OK Maemo Extras Builder Dec 01 20:41:38 I wonder how X-Fade didn't notice it Dec 01 20:43:10 MohammadAG: that was lcuk's doing Dec 01 20:43:13 MohammadAG: afaik Dec 01 20:43:24 what was? Dec 01 20:44:27 the successful build yesterday Dec 01 20:44:47 no, I just uploaded it Dec 01 20:45:44 i thought lcuk went off and left maemo lol Dec 01 20:46:42 wtf... Dec 01 20:46:54 Venemo, and that was right now :P Dec 01 20:47:04 bbl Dec 01 20:48:14 MohammadAG: okay Dec 01 20:48:20 MohammadAG: but afaik lcuk did it too Dec 01 20:48:25 MohammadAG: what was the solution? Dec 01 20:49:53 So my n900 just had a text message popup from something called "" that won't clear out of my inbox. What on earth is this? Dec 01 21:03:54 MohammadAG, !!! Dec 01 21:05:24 MohammadAG, what did you change?! Dec 01 21:21:57 NooBmonk3y, libqtm-sesnors, duh :P Dec 01 21:22:08 So my n900 just had a text message popup from something called "" that won't clear out of my inbox. What on earth is this? Dec 01 21:22:43 NooBmonk3y: btw that was what I recommended to you yesterday and you said it didn't work! Dec 01 21:25:25 MohammadAG, have made 100+ changes didnt work before that lol Dec 01 21:25:47 i'm confused what changes did you make? Dec 01 21:25:52 my control file atm says Dec 01 21:25:58 Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-dev (>=4), libqtm-dev (>= 1), libqtm-systeminfo (>= 1), libqtm-sensors (>= 1) Dec 01 21:26:00 added libqtm-sesnors Dec 01 21:26:03 Depends: libqtm-sensors (>= 1), libqtm-multimedia, libqtm-systeminfo, ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} Dec 01 21:26:07 sesnors? Dec 01 21:26:18 umm Dec 01 21:26:29 that's not the file you uploaded then Dec 01 21:26:45 Moh, its the file i've been using for the last 2 days lol Dec 01 21:26:50 and tried uploading this evening Dec 01 21:26:59 the git one was pre-changes Dec 01 21:27:03 nope, builder disagrees Dec 01 21:27:07 ?! Dec 01 21:27:12 its what i have now! Dec 01 21:27:16 and failed 4 times with this evening! Dec 01 21:27:19 see the sources/ in each one that failed Dec 01 21:27:43 when you changed the control file, what did you run? Dec 01 21:28:05 run? Dec 01 21:28:15 mad dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S Dec 01 21:29:21 sources in builder say you didn't have it in there Dec 01 21:29:29 ok, this is odd Dec 01 21:30:05 Just checking my sources, they do Dec 01 21:30:06 wtf Dec 01 21:31:01 wtf indeed Dec 01 21:31:14 * MohammadAG likes how neons stay green after they're turned off Dec 01 21:31:36 NooBmonk3y, you could be uploading the wrong file Dec 01 21:31:54 :| i deleted all others (well moved, and did a fresh build) gonna try again Dec 01 21:32:01 i spent an hour finding a problem in my code (in C), and was editing the wrong file Dec 01 21:32:46 now, I want an angry mob so we could fix libqtm-dev Dec 01 21:33:50 MohammadAG, angry mob == bug report Dec 01 21:33:56 MohammadAG: we should "fix" the people who made it Dec 01 21:34:53 lcuk, makes sense, libqtm-* packages aren't part of a PR Dec 01 21:35:20 * NooBmonk3y cant even get it building now lol Dec 01 21:35:42 Venemo, submit a patch :P Dec 01 21:36:33 so anyway, there are people who are paid to do this Dec 01 21:36:46 what is broken in it? Dec 01 21:37:03 it doesn't depend on libqtm-sensors Dec 01 21:37:49 it's easy for them to be lazy then not care and just say, "you are welcome to make a patch" Dec 01 21:38:07 I already have 2 bugs in Qt that I'm welcome to make a patch for, so I'll pass this one Dec 01 21:38:12 since NooBmonk3y has been noobish and sent a postal letter Dec 01 21:38:12 and I have pinged on #qt-mobility channel Dec 01 21:38:18 * alterego sighs Dec 01 21:38:34 For some reason, I can insmod the module manually just fine, but when I try to use modprobe, it dies. Dec 01 21:38:46 lol lcuk Dec 01 21:38:46 depmod -a Dec 01 21:39:32 That's not the problem, there seems to be something odd happening with it passing parameters to my module. Dec 01 21:39:32 Venemo, can I do it for Nokia? I don't want to be paid, i just don't want devs who don't have the temper NooBmonk3y does to get pissed off Dec 01 21:39:48 MohammadAG: yes, you can Dec 01 21:40:31 hmm Dec 01 21:40:49 do libqtm bug reports go on bmo or the Qt bugtracker? Dec 01 21:40:57 (which FYI, I hate the UI of) Dec 01 21:41:11 I'd stick it on the Qt bugtracker. Dec 01 21:41:18 Maybe both Dec 01 21:41:25 MohammadAG: both Dec 01 21:41:34 * MohammadAG files a support ticket on microsoft.com Dec 01 21:41:55 MohammadAG: lol Dec 01 21:42:06 ~nuke the moron who screwed up libqtm-dev Dec 01 21:42:07 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at the moron who screwed up libqtm-dev ... B☢☢M! Dec 01 21:42:22 ~nuke infobot Dec 01 21:42:23 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at infobot ... B☢☢M! Dec 01 21:42:23 Antonio sth Dec 01 21:42:30 herp derp Dec 01 21:42:34 ~nuke himself Dec 01 21:42:34 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at himself ... B☢☢M! Dec 01 21:42:49 alterego, it's a maemo package problem Dec 01 21:43:11 out of range, we need to reach Brisbane Dec 01 21:43:12 MohammadAG: yeah, Dec 01 21:43:39 effing kids Dec 01 21:45:40 anyone here have Calendar (maemo5 pr1.3) and 5mins? Dec 01 21:45:43 Jaffa? Dec 01 21:46:52 timeless_mbp, what about it? Dec 01 21:47:19 MohammadAG, gonna hve to catch you tomorrow - gotta head out Dec 01 21:47:21 still confused Dec 01 21:47:27 thankyou v much though! Dec 01 21:47:45 timeless_mbp: I do Dec 01 21:48:09 NooBmonk3y, you're welcome :) Dec 01 21:48:17 i need one of you to confirm that the calendar doesn't correctly handle that file Dec 01 21:48:32 although it says 2kb on install! Dec 01 21:48:34 lols Dec 01 21:49:06 and no desktop icon, but can sort that 2moro :P Dec 01 21:49:13 timeless_mbp: shoot Dec 01 21:49:36 achipa: MohammadAG / Venemo are trying Dec 01 21:49:42 i think that's enough people, thanks though Dec 01 21:49:42 k Dec 01 21:51:05 MohammadAG / Venemo : Dec 01 21:51:08 the event is in nov 2011 Dec 01 21:51:08 compare the event display w/ the actual event Dec 01 21:51:09 it should be broken (bad end itme) Dec 01 21:52:27 Nothing in Nov 11 after adding it Dec 01 21:54:11 timeless_mbp, ping Dec 01 21:55:23 * timeless_mbp cries Dec 01 21:55:27 ok, so something went wrong Dec 01 21:55:30 wonderful Dec 01 21:55:33 sorry, no time Dec 01 21:55:44 MohammadAG / Venemo : *sob* Dec 01 21:55:51 * timeless_mbp goes to dinner(breakfast/lunch) Dec 01 21:55:57 timeless_mbp: good apetite Dec 01 21:56:09 btw, what does *sob* mean? Dec 01 21:56:20 cries Dec 01 21:56:41 well, the sounds of it Dec 01 21:56:52 sorta like *gasp*, *gulp*, etc Dec 01 21:57:27 ah, okay Dec 01 21:57:34 and why are you crying MohammadAG? Dec 01 21:57:50 i'm not, he is Dec 01 21:57:56 oh. Dec 01 21:58:03 ok, I get it now :P Dec 01 21:58:10 lol Dec 01 22:12:19 NooBmonk3y, fix your package, it lacks any binaries and therefore, has no functionality :P Dec 01 22:12:27 i'm off to bed, gnite :) Dec 01 22:13:08 hint, don't use $(APPNAME) in debian/rules in install: section, use healthcheck instead Dec 01 22:14:54 good night MohammadAG :) Dec 01 22:26:51 ~tomorrow Dec 01 22:26:52 Tomorrow will probably suck too. Dec 01 22:26:52 teeheehee, got my app streaming through one of the bluetooth serial ports now :D Dec 01 22:29:01 I think it's safe to say my application has probably the most connectivity options available in any app on the N900 ^.^ Dec 01 22:29:12 squeeeeeeee~ Dec 01 22:36:26 infobot must have been written by a Finn Dec 01 22:39:05 Columbus has reached 8627 lines of code Dec 01 22:39:24 Quite pleased :) Dec 01 22:42:02 what your app doo? Dec 01 22:42:50 ttp://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/index.html Dec 01 22:42:54 Urgh Dec 01 22:43:12 Well, that and data streaming over bluetooth, network and now USB serial emulation. Dec 01 22:44:00 And logging to file, waypoints, arbitrary bearing indication, track navigation and reverse track navigation. Dec 01 22:44:09 Basic handheld GPS stuff. Dec 01 22:46:08 pupnik: ask for help author Dec 01 22:46:28 no Finn Dec 01 22:50:50 interesting alterego Dec 01 22:51:47 ty DocScrutinizer Dec 01 22:59:45 alterego: ooh, is that released at all? Dec 01 23:01:13 No, not yet. Dec 01 23:01:17 Still got a few things to do. Dec 01 23:02:18 Anyhow, bed time, night folks. Dec 01 23:11:32 ~tomorrow Dec 01 23:11:33 Tomorrow will probably suck too. Dec 01 23:42:29 where does qtirreco store its button configs? I mean the actual code to send (yes I wanna tv-b-gone) Dec 01 23:44:38 chem|st: It uses lirc as a backend IIRC. Dec 01 23:45:16 chem|st: have to run now. will answer all yout questions later Dec 01 23:45:17 nomis: what about the buttons you setup in it, there has to be some kind of database or config file for those buttons Dec 01 23:45:25 DocScrutinizer: ty Dec 01 23:46:25 config is mostly in MyDocs/.irreco or sth like that Dec 01 23:48:46 DocScrutinizer: no .irreco no .qtirreco configs in home.. going to grep / for it Dec 01 23:50:40 DocScrutinizer: i have compiled kernel with NAT support in scratchbox. Can i install it with flasher to N900? Dec 01 23:52:00 wtf why is the folder in MyDocs not listed on double tab Dec 01 23:52:24 trumee: how did you get the kernel source? Dec 01 23:52:37 javispedro: apt-get install kernel-source Dec 01 23:52:51 javispedro: apt-get source kernel-source Dec 01 23:52:54 did you run make rx51_def_config to get the .config file? Dec 01 23:52:58 ah Dec 01 23:54:00 javispedro: i copied ./arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig to .config Dec 01 23:54:32 chem|st: took me a while to find them again, ~/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices Dec 01 23:54:42 javispedro: Is that kernel complete with all Nokia binary blobs? Dont want to brick my device with modules left out. Dec 01 23:54:43 but I guess you found that yourself as well inbetween :) Dec 01 23:55:09 trumee: there are no binary blobs, and yes, that should be the complete source. Dec 01 23:55:33 javispedro: i was under the impression some things were closed source on the device? Dec 01 23:55:36 trumee: but what do you exactly plan to do? did you add modules? Dec 01 23:55:53 trumee: some applications and libraries are closed source, but not the kernel. Dec 01 23:56:19 javispedro: i need NAT support in the kernel Dec 01 23:57:04 javispedro: i enabled CONFIG_NF_CONNTRACK=m and NF_CONNTRACK_PPTP=m Dec 01 23:57:16 trumee: so all you got are two new modules? Dec 01 23:57:31 trumee: then just run make modules_install on scratchbox, go find them in /lib/modules/ and copy to device Dec 01 23:57:40 nomis: DocScrutinizer got it ty Dec 01 23:57:53 nomis: for qtirreco it is differnet Dec 01 23:57:58 ah. Dec 01 23:58:16 ok Dec 01 23:58:32 trumee: this way, there's no way you could brick the device :) Dec 01 23:59:09 chem|st: maybe interesting to know irreco is starting lirc by calling /etc/init.d/lirc Dec 01 23:59:13 javispedro: i hope other modules dont depend on these ones. Dec 01 23:59:27 trumee: that you just enabled? how? :) Dec 01 23:59:36 chem|st: when I tried to do the tvbgone thing the stumbling block was, that the lirc on the n900 does (did?) not support raw codes. Which is a problem if you want to unify dozends of different encoding schemes. Dec 02 00:00:24 trumee: worst issue would be the image being different with any of those enabled. this would mean loading the modules on the device kernel would fail or misbehave. but not a brick. Dec 02 00:01:24 javispedro: thanks, going to try that tomorrow. need to get some sleep now. gn all Dec 02 00:01:43 nomis: I was to grep all powerbuttons from lirc if that helps Dec 02 00:01:53 Can someone point me out to a wiki that will tell me how to compile the n900 meego kernel. Dec 02 00:01:53 I've been here: http://wiki.meego.com/Recompile_kernel Dec 02 00:01:53 and got the kernel-2.6.35.3-10.3.src.rpm file. Dec 02 00:01:53 I'm sure you guys have a way of automatically applying the pathes. I asked on #meego-arm but no luck. Dec 02 00:02:21 mpoirier: wrong channel go to #meego pls Dec 02 00:02:24 chem|st: actually there is a really nice collection of power down codes in the open source tvbgone clone. It requires some reading of C code to understand it though. Dec 02 00:03:11 nomis: what does it use for talking to the transmitter? Dec 02 00:03:39 chem|st: toggeling an IO-pin on a microcontroller. Dec 02 00:03:57 chem|st: http://www.ladyada.net/make/tvbgone/ Dec 02 00:04:44 oh the OS device Dec 02 00:09:14 chem|st: in http://www.ladyada.net/media/tvbgone/firmwarev12.zip is a WORLDcodes.c file where the codes are stored. They do some funky compression like thing which is a bit hard to track down. Dec 02 00:19:59 chem|st: I used Irreco on one N900, and the lirc daemon listening to that tcp port, on another N900 which sits as a proxy directly in front of the TV set. Works like a charm :-D Dec 02 00:21:03 chem|st: all I had to do was change "localhost" to "" on the remote N900 irreco config Dec 02 00:22:01 plus of course configure proxy accordingly to use the correct LircDevice Dec 02 00:22:09 and start it Dec 02 00:23:39 DocScrutinizer: so you controlled your lirc0 via the listening port? Dec 02 00:23:49 sure Dec 02 00:24:03 DocScrutinizer: by knowing the right code ok Dec 02 00:24:19 irreco knows the right code Dec 02 00:24:49 DocScrutinizer: for a single TV I onlz needed two tries on remote codes to find the right for that specific one without knowing model number or remote model number Dec 02 00:25:14 aah that code Dec 02 00:25:25 yeah can become annoying and tedious Dec 02 00:25:50 DocScrutinizer: tvbgone is a slightly different task than controlling a single tv set. The interesting part is, that it requires lots of different encoding schemes. Dec 02 00:25:53 I am looking for powerbutton lirc codes Dec 02 00:26:17 nomis: no it doesn't Dec 02 00:26:36 chem|st: ...or raw codes :) Dec 02 00:26:59 nomis: I have no f'ing clue what you're talking about Dec 02 00:27:29 nomis: you just need the lirc codes for all power buttons... Dec 02 00:27:47 in case of n900 you are not limited to 230 buttons Dec 02 00:28:11 omg, now I get it Dec 02 00:28:41 (qt)irreco is able to macro-master all codes on a single button and that I wanna use for good Dec 02 00:28:55 chem|st: yesh, but LIRC forces you to put them into different configuration files, since each file has its own encoding scheme for the individual codes. I am talking about different IR pulses to encode 1's and 0's as well as attention-pulses. Dec 02 00:29:25 * DocScrutinizer shakes head Dec 02 00:29:59 nomis: the LG one and the Terratec I am looking at look just the same... Dec 02 00:30:01 chem|st: ok, yeah, I did not think about macros. Dec 02 00:30:35 chem|st: look at WorldCodes.c - there are tons of different pulse schemes, there are even different IR-modulation frequencies. Dec 02 00:30:38 useless effort Dec 02 00:31:01 DocScrutinizer: why? Dec 02 00:31:04 nomis: yes. So what? Dec 02 00:31:19 DocScrutinizer: where is the point where I lost you? Dec 02 00:31:21 chem|st: range of N900 is 3m at best Dec 02 00:31:53 DocScrutinizer: which is enough for e.g. restaurants. Dec 02 00:32:15 if you think so Dec 02 00:32:26 DocScrutinizer: I know... but probing some codes while leaving for the toilet at a friends doesn't harm does it? Dec 02 00:32:31 sure, if you're trying to switch all tv sets in a best buy then you're better of building dedicated hardware. Dec 02 00:32:43 better off even. Dec 02 00:32:54 so um Dec 02 00:33:03 can someone get me the menu code for my stupid dvr? Dec 02 00:33:09 the remote died and all i have is an n900 :( Dec 02 00:33:30 i have codes for power, and most items, the one i don't have is the one that lets me access my list of recorded programming :( Dec 02 00:34:01 timeless_mbp: model of dvr and remote? Dec 02 00:34:02 isn't there a database of those somewhere? Dec 02 00:34:10 timeless_mbp: did you find a suitable LIRC config file? Dec 02 00:34:11 joga: not for all Dec 02 00:34:23 handan vc-7700 pvr Dec 02 00:34:46 how would i find the remote thing? Dec 02 00:34:53 nomis: i found a config for a related model Dec 02 00:35:05 but it didn't have the program list menu tiem Dec 02 00:35:08 the building of a proper codeset is rather trivial, when you approach it the hw centric way. There's a limited number of controller chips, each of which has 2,3, or 4 addr pins to bind the chip to a certain type of appliance. Then there are also some addr bits for manufacturer, and the remaning usually 6 (iirc) bits rae predefined, there's only one valid power key pattern per chip Dec 02 00:35:09 s/tiem/item/ Dec 02 00:35:10 timeless_mbp meant: but it didn't have the program list menu item Dec 02 00:35:11 timeless_mbp: http://lirc.sourceforge.net/remotes/ might be a good starting point. Dec 02 00:36:11 DocScrutinizer: what controller chips? That usually is an IR demodulator tied to a pin of the appliance processor. Dec 02 00:36:35 timeless_mbp: have you found any 'vantage hd 7100' codes for that at it is the same build Dec 02 00:36:45 nomis: BS, in the remote you have no demodulator. You got a specialized chip with a LED Dec 02 00:37:13 DocScrutinizer: oh, you're talking about the remote. Dec 02 00:37:23 there's a limited number of such chips Dec 02 00:38:19 DocScrutinizer: and your conclusion from that fact is? Dec 02 00:39:20 my conclusion is that your approach to collect random code files is unnecessarily complicated Dec 02 00:39:46 nmis: it's a crappy starting point. and i've been there Dec 02 00:39:54 DocScrutinizer: and your approach would be? Dec 02 00:40:07 timeless_mbp: yeah, granted. Dec 02 00:40:25 as mentioned above, the hw centric approach, loking into the datasheets of available controller chips Dec 02 00:40:32 nomis: i'd rather someone write something which rotates through a series of pulses Dec 02 00:40:37 and asks me if any of them did something Dec 02 00:40:50 can you do that? :) Dec 02 00:40:58 timeless_mbp: that's what I suggested some weeks ago Dec 02 00:41:14 DocScrutinizer: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/IRMP implements 20 different protocols (IR pulse encoding schemes) which have up to 16 bits of ID codes and up to 16 bits of key codes. Have fun iterating through these. Dec 02 00:41:26 nomis: so... Dec 02 00:41:34 if there are vaguely standard power buttons Dec 02 00:41:38 one per protocol Dec 02 00:41:41 then it's pretty easy Dec 02 00:41:49 first you loop through protocols trying to kill or start the device Dec 02 00:41:55 then having found the right one Dec 02 00:42:00 you loop through codes Dec 02 00:42:03 timeless_mbp: see above, there is a nice collection for the open source tvbgone hardware. *That* would be a good starting point. Dec 02 00:42:15 nomis: so what's your way of having fun? iterating thru random files that have zillions of doublettes and never get the complete code set? Dec 02 00:42:24 timeless_mbp: with about 190 codes you get 90% of all TVs Dec 02 00:42:37 chem|st: just fix my stupid dvr :) Dec 02 00:42:38 DocScrutinizer: I am talking about WORLDcodes.c Dec 02 00:42:46 so what? Dec 02 00:42:48 timeless_mbp: ok I am back on that Dec 02 00:43:00 I'm talking about 5th of april 1998 Dec 02 00:43:09 DocScrutinizer: that has all the information needed. It just is not easily suitable for LIRC. Dec 02 00:43:13 timeless_mbp: you may send me your hardware and I try to fix it Dec 02 00:43:30 chem|st: geoping Dec 02 00:43:36 sorry, this discussion starts to get boring. CYA Dec 02 00:44:03 duh. Dec 02 00:45:31 I just wonder why nobody implemented Tvbgone for n900 yet, where people have asked for this for ages and it supposedly is so easy. Dec 02 00:45:48 anyway, I appreciate anyone attemting this. Dec 02 00:47:15 timeless_mbp: have you got some codes like up and down? Dec 02 00:47:21 chem|st: yeah Dec 02 00:47:33 i have arrows, numbers, and a bunch of others Dec 02 00:47:38 just not Dec 02 00:47:42 timeless_mbp: I need the arrows pls Dec 02 00:48:05 ah not menu is missing? program list Dec 02 00:48:07 how about i push the file i have and you figure out what the arrows are? Dec 02 00:48:11 program list Dec 02 00:48:15 sure Dec 02 00:48:39 have you tried all the codes? Dec 02 00:48:49 ? Dec 02 00:48:54 from close? Dec 02 00:49:12 so if I hit on douplets I can figure out Dec 02 00:49:30 btw. the logitech harmony remotes are backed by a fantastic database, which unfortunately is very much proprietary. You can configure them by sending some random codes to their server and get a list of matching remote models. Dec 02 00:50:13 timeless_mbp: have you tried all button codes from your LircDevice? or did you just try random remote definitions from Irreco? Dec 02 00:50:14 ok, where does irreco stores its files? Dec 02 00:50:34 timeless_mbp: MyDocs/irreco/ Dec 02 00:50:34 DocScrutinizer: do you know how bloody horrible irreco is? Dec 02 00:50:38 timeless_mbp: ~user/MyDocs/irreco Dec 02 00:50:48 * pupnik approve of tvbgone Dec 02 00:50:57 timeless_mbp: yes I now Dec 02 00:51:24 timeless_mbp: geopong 49.43891,7.76877 Dec 02 00:51:27 chem|st: i have a file Handan_DVB-C_5000 Dec 02 00:51:49 timeless_mbp: that is the one shipped with lirc DB Dec 02 00:51:53 chem|st: hrm, i wonder if i have anyone in the office going there Dec 02 00:52:02 timeless_mbp: less /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* Dec 02 00:52:16 DocScrutinizer: that's the file Dec 02 00:52:19 and there's no less Dec 02 00:52:26 (Sold separately) Dec 02 00:52:30 DocScrutinizer: when did your dual-N900 trick, did you look at what actually gets transferred there? Button-IDs referring to some lirc config file in the remote N900? Or complete encoding information? Dec 02 00:53:01 timeless_mbp: "more" works :) Dec 02 00:53:09 no I didn't look, as I've seen the info in lirc docs previously Dec 02 00:53:23 nomis: so, if you have that file, do you need it from me? Dec 02 00:53:26 nomis: on lirc0 udp you send dircet codes usualy Dec 02 00:53:30 timeless_mbp: no Dec 02 00:53:31 and afaik it's symbolic button names Dec 02 00:53:35 good Dec 02 00:53:45 the codes are specified in /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* Dec 02 00:54:11 begin codes Dec 02 00:54:13 mute 0x906F Dec 02 00:54:15 vol+ 0x40BF Dec 02 00:54:16 vol- 0xC03F Dec 02 00:54:43 DocScrutinizer: so you have to put these config files on the "remote" N900 as well as on your "local" N900 then. Ok. Dec 02 00:54:44 timeless_mbp: what I am looking for is the vantage/handan/globis/something same build atm Dec 02 00:54:56 yes Dec 02 00:55:51 for creating a new button you need those defs in cfg file on remote as well. For operating a ready-made remote you don't need them anymore Dec 02 00:56:03 DocScrutinizer: you can do both... the button pointer is nothing more than a pointer to the device file Dec 02 00:56:18 may Dec 02 00:56:20 be Dec 02 00:58:01 chem|st: nick highlight me when you want my attn Dec 02 00:59:52 I was hoping that one could send the information from the config file head via that protocol. Then a standalone tv-b-gone app would be easier and would not necessarily involve lots of config files. Dec 02 01:00:17 timeless_mbp: lazy sucker, did you look into /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* ? Have you checked if there's a button name like "proglist"? Dec 02 01:00:48 no such button Dec 02 01:01:00 what's the name of the controller chip def file you got there, first of all? Dec 02 01:01:27 timeless_mbp: could you put that file into a pastebin? Dec 02 01:01:46 nomis: pastebin=pain, gimme a bit Dec 02 01:02:16 timeless_mbp: I recommend installing "pastebinit" on your laptop, not sure if it is available for the n900 itself though :) Dec 02 01:03:00 timeless_mbp: go to download from DB go to handan.. there it is you lazy bastard! :) Dec 02 01:03:03 nomis: it is Dec 02 01:03:12 ah cool. Dec 02 01:03:34 chem|st: ??? Dec 02 01:03:55 if you do not have that in irreco I have it in qtirreco ;) Dec 02 01:04:27 just found it in the database and had a look at qtirreco and found it Dec 02 01:04:36 hah! Dec 02 01:04:41 I just found a leak Dec 02 01:04:44 evil, evil javispedro. Dec 02 01:04:53 if you are looking for remotes you need the remote model not the dvr model Dec 02 01:04:55 irreco's ui for db stuff is a disaster Dec 02 01:05:06 how the **** would i know the remote model? Dec 02 01:05:14 * DocScrutinizer throws some hemp and pitch at javispedro Dec 02 01:05:15 i have to guess the category for the Dec 02 01:05:20 which is totally random Dec 02 01:05:28 timeless_mbp: if you are downloading finished remotes with buttons you may look for the device you want to handle Dec 02 01:05:55 chem|st: is the available database browsable via web somewhere? Dec 02 01:05:56 chem|st: ok, in irreco where the heck is the db thing? Dec 02 01:06:14 in the intrnetz? Dec 02 01:06:21 timeless_mbp: have youy got things like digibox? Dec 02 01:06:38 timeless_mbp: what DocScrutinizer said ;) Dec 02 01:06:53 DocScrutinizer: sorry Dec 02 01:06:58 i don't have internetz Dec 02 01:07:00 i have irreco Dec 02 01:07:06 or however they spelz it Dec 02 01:07:25 in irreco the only thing i see under handan is the 5000 thing Dec 02 01:07:25 so youre doomed, loser! Dec 02 01:07:54 timeless_mbp: I got two options to download remotes, one shows brands and one shows kind of hardware Dec 02 01:07:56 irreco downloads new remote definitions from internet Dec 02 01:08:09 nomis: yes Dec 02 01:08:12 DocScrutinizer: my phone is connected to the internet Dec 02 01:08:21 but as a user, all i see is irreco Dec 02 01:08:29 timeless_mbp: EYES TO ME... Dec 02 01:08:30 * DocScrutinizer sighs Dec 02 01:08:39 when all you see is irreco... Dec 02 01:08:40 chem|st: ok Dec 02 01:08:48 [ignoring DocScrutinizer ] Dec 02 01:08:53 timeless_mbp: you got the thing by hardware? Dec 02 01:08:59 ? Dec 02 01:09:07 let's say i have nothing running on my n900 Dec 02 01:09:10 and the dvr is on Dec 02 01:09:15 and has cable running through it Dec 02 01:09:23 DocScrutinizer: there, fix applied! I was leaking an entire pixmap no less! Dec 02 01:09:28 chem|st: can you point me to it? My google-fu fails me at the moment. Dec 02 01:09:34 * javispedro prays for the poor users Dec 02 01:09:58 chem|st: what do you want me to do? Dec 02 01:10:06 ok so is this easy debian thin Dec 02 01:10:09 g Dec 02 01:10:12 like a kernel? Dec 02 01:10:13 timeless_mbp: you're amazingly obdurate to accept help Dec 02 01:10:39 * timeless_mbp is totally confused Dec 02 01:10:56 oh, and i'm ignoring DocScrutinizer per instructions from chem|st Dec 02 01:10:58 timeless_mbp: create a button with your damn code... the remote file is BN59-00685A Dec 02 01:11:20 in /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* Dec 02 01:11:23 myu: no. it's more like a chroot. Dec 02 01:11:24 X-P Dec 02 01:11:58 oh I was afraid it was a kernel Dec 02 01:12:01 ill try it out now Dec 02 01:12:14 chem|st: http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/Handan_DVB-C_5000 is the file i had Dec 02 01:12:41 what the heck is BN59...? Dec 02 01:12:47 sorry, end user here Dec 02 01:12:48 its the code on your remote Dec 02 01:12:52 the remote you are looking for Dec 02 01:12:54 dont use the tv code Dec 02 01:12:57 use the remote code Dec 02 01:12:58 timeless_mbp: in irreco menu you got a button "download remote" which gets you predefined complete remotes - those may or may not have the button you need Dec 02 01:13:39 timeless_mbp: we are looking for the blue butoon right? Dec 02 01:13:54 um Dec 02 01:14:03 it's a button labeled "PVR" on the physical remote... Dec 02 01:14:09 yeah Dec 02 01:14:10 do you want a picture of the remote? Dec 02 01:14:16 * timeless_mbp is confused Dec 02 01:14:19 again, end user here Dec 02 01:14:20 in "edit remote" you can create new buttons, and select functions for them, from the set of functions defined in /home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/* which you can download in "edit remote" menu by "Download from LircDB" Dec 02 01:14:23 my n900 has nothing running Dec 02 01:14:32 walk me through it by telling me what application to open Dec 02 01:14:36 what buttons to click Dec 02 01:14:38 ... Dec 02 01:14:39 timeless_mbp: go in edit remote mode Dec 02 01:14:44 in which application? Dec 02 01:14:54 really, i don't have anything open, stop jumping around Dec 02 01:15:01 timeless_mbp: HELL, isn't that what I just did?? Dec 02 01:15:08 timeless_mbp: ok now I get it... Dec 02 01:15:09 DocScrutinizer: he told me to ignore you Dec 02 01:15:16 fsckoff Dec 02 01:15:17 i'm going to ignore you until he tells me to stop Dec 02 01:15:26 sorry, end users can't handle overload Dec 02 01:15:33 lemming mode! Dec 02 01:15:34 and it's 3am! Dec 02 01:15:37 I can't handle morons Dec 02 01:15:38 timeless_mbp: do what he said! NOW! grml Dec 02 01:15:59 * timeless_mbp goes to try to figure out what said Dec 02 01:16:00 * javispedro should be doing something else. Dec 02 01:16:15 * timeless_mbp launches Irreco Dec 02 01:16:22 * timeless_mbp taps system menu Dec 02 01:16:25 that's always a difficult thing to work out javispedro Dec 02 01:16:27 the remote is stored as digibox->handan->your device model Dec 02 01:16:28 * timeless_mbp taps Download remote Dec 02 01:16:33 this is like some fun passive aggressive argument going on here Dec 02 01:16:48 so irreco can handle set-top boxes? Dec 02 01:16:48 ieatlint: shut the fsck up! Dec 02 01:16:51 there's no Handan under digitbox Dec 02 01:16:57 myu: no Dec 02 01:17:00 s/digitbox/digibox/ Dec 02 01:17:01 timeless_mbp meant: there's no Handan under digibox Dec 02 01:17:02 aw =\ Dec 02 01:17:03 chem|st: them's fightin' words Dec 02 01:17:06 did you skip a step? like ? Dec 02 01:17:18 its still a great app tho Dec 02 01:17:22 one of my favorites Dec 02 01:17:26 timeless_mbp: you may need to scroll up as it starts butt up for some reason Dec 02 01:17:27 easyily Dec 02 01:17:33 I love trolling my schools displays with it Dec 02 01:17:43 digibox has: Dec 02 01:17:51 and its also usefull cause I lost a few remotes =| Dec 02 01:17:58 atv+, division, eurovox e5100, hitachi Dec 02 01:18:04 .oO(And to think I got flamed when I said that having ir-tx ONLY -- no rx -- was a stupid thing to do because no end user would be able to set it up) Dec 02 01:18:04 kaon, k-e2270co, maximum, Dec 02 01:18:15 samsung, sharp, sky, thomson, Yes Dec 02 01:18:18 Dec 02 01:18:27 did you skip a step? like tapping refresh? Dec 02 01:18:56 timeless_mbp: you need to scroll as it starts at the bottom for some reason Dec 02 01:19:09 that's the *ENTIRE* Digibox list Dec 02 01:19:17 screen captures if you don't believe me... Dec 02 01:19:31 did you want me to tap refresh? Dec 02 01:19:32 timeless_mbp: I open up and see sky, tata sky, topfield, vestel Dec 02 01:19:45 yeah Dec 02 01:19:51 hit refresh Dec 02 01:19:51 * timeless_mbp taps refresh Dec 02 01:20:15 no change Dec 02 01:20:19 timeless_mbp: try scroll up AND down Dec 02 01:20:21 what version of irreco should i be using? Dec 02 01:20:28 qt Dec 02 01:20:32 dont get the older one Dec 02 01:20:37 its qtirreco Dec 02 01:20:54 myu: you're being ignored because i'm listening to chem|st until he tells me to listen to someone else Dec 02 01:20:58 myu: shouldnt matter but Dec 02 01:21:04 i'm using irreco until he tells me to use something else Dec 02 01:21:13 timeless_mbp: I tell you Dec 02 01:21:15 why would you take orders from someone youve never met Dec 02 01:21:21 chem|st: so what should i use? Dec 02 01:21:21 he could be trolling you for all you know Dec 02 01:21:31 myu: someone will slap him for me Dec 02 01:22:01 timeless_mbp: they may screwed with the lists and I cannot guide you to it as I dont know how the list is build in irreco Dec 02 01:22:04 myu: nah, irreco just fine here Dec 02 01:22:13 chem|st: so you want me to use qtirreco? Dec 02 01:22:20 DocScrutinizer: did you find the remote and can guide him? Dec 02 01:22:23 * timeless_mbp closes irreco Dec 02 01:22:26 * timeless_mbp launches qtirreco Dec 02 01:22:27 timeless_mbp: wait a sec Dec 02 01:22:28 now what? Dec 02 01:22:38 timeless_mbp: you got it installed? Dec 02 01:22:41 then go on Dec 02 01:22:42 * timeless_mbp pauses w/ qtirreco open and a blank screen Dec 02 01:22:45 chem|st: no, he's not listening, and I feel like wasting my time Dec 02 01:22:48 now what? Dec 02 01:23:05 timeless_mbp: go qtirreco and do the same again! Dec 02 01:23:17 * timeless_mbp taps the system menu Dec 02 01:23:19 * timeless_mbp taps download remote Dec 02 01:23:27 now what? Dec 02 01:23:30 timeless_mbp: download from DB Dec 02 01:23:35 err? Dec 02 01:23:41 * timeless_mbp closes dialog Dec 02 01:23:43 timeless_mbp: there are two Dec 02 01:23:44 * timeless_mbp taps system menu Dec 02 01:23:49 * timeless_mbp taps download from db Dec 02 01:23:57 * timeless_mbp gets a totally different dialog Dec 02 01:24:11 then Digibox.. and so on Dec 02 01:24:11 tap digibox? Dec 02 01:24:57 ok, err wtf? Dec 02 01:24:59 damn, someone have mercy and hand him his troll-certificate Dec 02 01:25:01 i see something w/: Dec 02 01:25:04 A+ Dec 02 01:25:06 1 2 3 4 hchdown chup Dec 02 01:25:12 menu TV voldown volup Dec 02 01:25:16 i do not see much Dec 02 01:25:16 now go into edit mode Dec 02 01:25:24 * timeless_mbp taps system menu Dec 02 01:25:27 * timeless_mbp taps edit remote Dec 02 01:25:28 add button Dec 02 01:25:37 new button? Dec 02 01:25:41 yep Dec 02 01:25:46 DocScrutinizer: I thought you ran out of those after your last visit to tmo ;) Dec 02 01:25:55 * timeless_mbp taps new button Dec 02 01:25:57 javispedro: I got some handy Dec 02 01:26:12 choose a picture for your button Dec 02 01:26:35 tap the button to do so Dec 02 01:26:58 * timeless_mbp selects a crappy picture Dec 02 01:26:58 hi Dec 02 01:27:11 how can I turn the USB mass storage device mode off Dec 02 01:27:17 or just enter PVR in the top text box Dec 02 01:27:19 with the cable plugged into my computer? Dec 02 01:27:24 blackthorne: eh? Dec 02 01:27:30 safely remove on PC Dec 02 01:27:41 blackthorne: when you're in mass storage mode, your device is a *SLAVE* Dec 02 01:27:48 you have to have the master (PC) release it Dec 02 01:27:58 timeless_mbp: EYES TO ME! it is 2:19 over here Dec 02 01:27:58 yes but I can't access its memory Dec 02 01:28:01 that means eject/safely remove/whatever Dec 02 01:28:01 timeless_mbp: I suggest you to focus on your Remote thing :) Dec 02 01:28:04 blackthorne: or simply what I toldya Dec 02 01:28:05 because after doing that Dec 02 01:28:06 chem|st: ok Dec 02 01:28:12 so i gave it a picture Dec 02 01:28:20 and a name Dec 02 01:28:25 click add? Dec 02 01:28:26 timeless_mbp: now tap 'add' on the right hand side Dec 02 01:28:33 * timeless_mbp taps add Dec 02 01:28:45 there's a blank commands area Dec 02 01:28:47 timeless_mbp: scroll to PVR and ADD THE DAMN THING! Dec 02 01:28:53 after unmounting the device from my computer I still can't access the device memory from the maemo terminal Dec 02 01:28:56 the commands area is blank! Dec 02 01:28:57 * chem|st gave birth... just now Dec 02 01:29:00 it appears connected Dec 02 01:29:07 did you want me to select something in remotes? Dec 02 01:29:23 timeless_mbp: tap the remote first (the BN59 thing on the left Dec 02 01:29:35 * timeless_mbp taps bn59... Dec 02 01:29:42 the p section has: Dec 02 01:29:51 pmode, psize, pause, play, power Dec 02 01:29:52 blackthorne: "unmounting" means you're using unix-like. I haven't yet mastered how to do that without replugging the cable. Dec 02 01:29:56 pizza Dec 02 01:29:56 there's no PVR Dec 02 01:30:17 * DocScrutinizer heads out for valium and a strong painkiller Dec 02 01:30:27 javispedro: yes, I wanted to avoid replugging the charging cable Dec 02 01:30:40 enjoy each pain free day Dec 02 01:30:44 shit I forgot to make a backup Dec 02 01:30:47 blackthorne: there's no other way to re-connect USB Dec 02 01:30:50 before installing easydeb image Dec 02 01:30:57 well ill make sure to before running it Dec 02 01:30:59 timeless_mbp: ehrm fsck Dec 02 01:31:03 * timeless_mbp busy waits on chem|st Dec 02 01:31:12 oh I can make one while it dls probably Dec 02 01:31:51 chem|st / DocScrutinizer : thanks for taking time to try this end user walk through experience Dec 02 01:31:54 chem|st: fsck while editing a remote?? Dec 02 01:32:10 chem|st: if you want, you can offer for me to listen to DocScrutinizer Dec 02 01:32:14 * DocScrutinizer [ignores timeless_mbp ] Dec 02 01:32:18 but if you do that, do him a favor and explain what went wrong :) Dec 02 01:32:27 otherwise he'll walk me through the same brick walls Dec 02 01:32:32 timeless_mbp: to late for DocScrutinizer now... Dec 02 01:32:44 ok :) Dec 02 01:32:46 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 02 01:33:01 timeless_mbp: do you have a picture of the remote handy? Dec 02 01:33:08 chem|st: i have an n900 and the remote Dec 02 01:33:12 a picture is a snap away... Dec 02 01:33:32 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out how to start the camera Dec 02 01:34:22 ok, my n900 has a picture of the remote Dec 02 01:36:45 timeless_mbp: nevermind... Dec 02 01:36:53 ? Dec 02 01:36:59 have you got your remote handy? Dec 02 01:37:05 yes Dec 02 01:37:08 but it doesn't WORK Dec 02 01:37:12 what is the model number Dec 02 01:37:12 which is why i'm not using it :) Dec 02 01:37:22 where is the model number? Dec 02 01:37:27 all it says is HANDAN Dec 02 01:37:32 bakc or battery slot Dec 02 01:37:35 HAHA, I wondered how long it'll take till finaly that question Dec 02 01:37:40 "CE"? Dec 02 01:37:55 HR-A408? Dec 02 01:38:02 HIPS1-3(HD-CL) ? Dec 02 01:38:06 MADE IN CHINA ? Dec 02 01:38:24 UM-4/AAA/R03 ? Dec 02 01:38:26 HR-A408 sounds good. Dec 02 01:38:30 * timeless_mbp runs out of text Dec 02 01:38:37 timeless_mbp: please look at this http://www.pultov.net/files/imagecache/watermark/files/BN59-00685A_3.jpg and figure which button is your pvr Dec 02 01:38:51 not my remote Dec 02 01:39:14 http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/handan-remote.jpg Dec 02 01:39:17 my remote ^ Dec 02 01:40:06 the button i care about is the one SW of CHv Dec 02 01:40:14 or west of Time Shift Dec 02 01:42:08 timeless_mbp: I would get through all buttons of that samsung remote and try! Dec 02 01:42:20 grr Dec 02 01:42:43 at least all buttons shown on the remote first load should work as labeled Dec 02 01:43:03 timeless_mbp: you fscked your remote not me! Dec 02 01:43:30 educated guess "i" button Dec 02 01:43:38 or info Dec 02 01:43:56 i is the bottom right button of my remote Dec 02 01:43:58 http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/handan-remote.jpg Dec 02 01:44:10 well, as pictured it's top right... Dec 02 01:45:06 timeless_mbp: or all buttons the picture diff spits in your face Dec 02 01:45:10 timeless_mbp: looking at your "Handan_DVB-C_5000" file suggests, that an alternative approach would be to add "dummy buttons" to this file, consisting of - lets say - the missing codes in the 0x288* - 0x289* range. That is just a handful of codes and you might be lucky. Dec 02 01:45:42 nomis: i'd kinda like a commandline tool which could just do that Dec 02 01:45:50 it's a royal pain using the ui for this Dec 02 01:46:09 the editors (Both Irreco and QtIrreco) are crap for adding/editing/touching buttons Dec 02 01:46:23 timeless_mbp: stylus! Dec 02 01:46:45 off to bed ladies! Dec 02 01:47:13 good night chem|st Dec 02 01:47:18 good night Dec 02 01:47:22 chem|st: so Dec 02 01:47:26 i tried the buttons 1..4 Dec 02 01:47:38 well, actually all the buttons from the remote you got me to download Dec 02 01:47:39 timeless_mbp: yeah, unfortunately I am not fully up to date regarding the commandline lirc tools. Dec 02 01:47:41 none of them seem to do anything Dec 02 01:47:54 so i suspect the remote you got me to install is a dud :) Dec 02 01:48:03 since even power doesn't seem to do anything... Dec 02 01:48:11 although that might just be qtirreco sucking :) Dec 02 01:48:19 timeless_mbp: uh, I don't think that I recommended any file. Dec 02 01:48:25 timeless_mbp: then you may go with nomis idea... night all Dec 02 01:48:46 nomis: Dec 02 01:49:06 ok :) Dec 02 01:49:17 and yes, i've considered adding ranges Dec 02 01:49:22 but really, the editor is so painful Dec 02 01:49:35 and, have you used vi on the n900? :) Dec 02 01:49:41 i've written apps in it Dec 02 01:49:48 but i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy Dec 02 01:51:30 err, wtf Dec 02 01:51:31 * DocScrutinizer wonders how timeless_mbp would react on finding a filed bugreport as crappy and missing any proper info, as the noise heard on this chan for some 60min now Dec 02 01:51:32 timeless_mbp: lirc comes with the "irsend" commandline tool. Dec 02 01:51:59 timeless_mbp: I am not sure how to invoke it properly, but that should be fairly easy to figure out. Dec 02 01:52:04 DocScrutinizer: read the log Dec 02 01:52:09 i offered things at various times Dec 02 01:52:12 people didn't ask for them Dec 02 01:52:16 i asked if i should use refresh Dec 02 01:52:21 i asked if they wanted a picture of my remote Dec 02 01:52:29 you ASKED Dec 02 01:52:32 i want steps to reproduce Dec 02 01:52:36 you never did answer anything Dec 02 01:52:48 i gave as much info as i had Dec 02 01:52:54 i do not know the model of my remote Dec 02 01:53:00 i do not know how to find the model of my remote Dec 02 01:53:04 you know ls though Dec 02 01:53:10 hey, can we stop the fighting please? Dec 02 01:53:24 i can't ls my remote! Dec 02 01:53:28 the remote is dead! Dec 02 01:53:38 i gave the filename Dec 02 01:53:38 dead? Dec 02 01:53:43 i asked if the file name is sufficient Dec 02 01:53:44 did you check the ir? Dec 02 01:53:46 someone said yes Dec 02 01:53:52 myu: sorry, what? Dec 02 01:54:02 you have my attn, what do you want me to do? Dec 02 01:54:03 timeless_mbp: you know you should earn a /kick for this shit! >> i can't ls my remote! Dec 02 01:54:05 i tried new batteries Dec 02 01:54:05 put in frech batt. and point it at your camera Dec 02 01:54:10 **fresh Dec 02 01:54:13 then press buttons Dec 02 01:54:31 myu: does my n900 count as a camera? Dec 02 01:54:40 if not, i can find a better one Dec 02 01:54:53 yeah it does Dec 02 01:55:18 * timeless_mbp opens n900 camera lens Dec 02 01:55:27 blue light appears in remote Dec 02 01:55:35 its not dead Dec 02 01:55:39 ok Dec 02 01:55:55 well you cant get it to work, so thats not really relevant, unless its a universal remote Dec 02 01:56:14 timeless_mbp: does it work for the button in question as well? Dec 02 01:56:20 * timeless_mbp sobs Dec 02 01:56:22 myu: technically it still can be dead, if the crystal got detuned, due to impact Dec 02 01:56:22 the remote works Dec 02 01:56:38 it really wasn't working before! Dec 02 01:56:39 he means test the button that you need Dec 02 01:56:41 on the camera Dec 02 01:56:43 oh its working now Dec 02 01:56:47 wololo Dec 02 01:56:50 yay, even more wasted 60 minutes now :-) Dec 02 01:56:51 this is so unfair Dec 02 01:57:04 welp you shouldve listened to me in the first place! Dec 02 01:57:08 no, that is trolling at its best Dec 02 01:57:10 I just love how opensource works. Dec 02 01:57:11 see, done in 3 minutes Dec 02 01:57:20 myu: thanks :) Dec 02 01:57:28 ;) Dec 02 01:57:50 trust me, i've lost ~8 weeks of programming Dec 02 01:57:57 i would not *intentionally* lose 8 weeks of programming Dec 02 01:58:11 np man Dec 02 01:58:23 meh Dec 02 01:58:48 so... can the n900 camera be used to learn the button signals? :) Dec 02 01:58:57 * timeless_mbp wants the n900 to back up the ir remote Dec 02 01:59:06 timeless_mbp: you're now morally obliged to work on understanding lirc and make tvbgone for the n900 work. Dec 02 01:59:18 timeless_mbp: no, the framerate is not high enough. Dec 02 01:59:21 timeless_mbp: that's been discussed ad nauseum maybe 6 months ago Dec 02 02:00:04 nomif you walk me through what needs to be done... Dec 02 02:00:10 nomis: we (well actually I) came up with some ideas to work around that framerate issue Dec 02 02:01:00 DocScrutinizer: oh? Willing to share the gist of it? Dec 02 02:01:52 nomis: you can use aliasing to deduce the real signal, as it's usually repeating. You also can use bar patterns in a single frame, when holding IR directly to lens Dec 02 02:02:21 I even did a video giving some indication it might be feasible Dec 02 02:02:35 DocScrutinizer: Mhm, I wonder if the proximity sensor is a) sensitive in the relevant spectrum and b) can be polled fast enough. Dec 02 02:02:45 no Dec 02 02:02:53 also ALS is way too slow Dec 02 02:03:27 DocScrutinizer: where is the video? Dec 02 02:03:39 dunno if and where I published it Dec 02 02:03:47 http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/irstill.png Dec 02 02:03:50 mwahahahahaha Dec 02 02:04:37 nomis: the signal baudrate of CIR is considerably low Dec 02 02:04:47 (that's what I got from point the cam to a slightly stronger than your average remote ir signal) Dec 02 02:04:50 it's just the carrier that's impossible to detect Dec 02 02:04:51 *pointing Dec 02 02:05:07 DocScrutinizer: If anyone ever manages to extract IR codes with the n900 camera I'll be deeply impressed. However, I doubt the feasibility. Dec 02 02:05:31 It is way easier to hack together a small µC board, hooking an ir-detector to it and let it do the heavy lifting. Dec 02 02:05:49 I wonder if anybody (@ fcam team?) will manage to get slomo video into N900 Dec 02 02:06:05 it's even easier to sit down, do nothing, and rant about why they didn't put a damn detector in the n900. Dec 02 02:06:07 all depends on what you can do to the cam chip Dec 02 02:06:11 (or even use an ir transistor to try detecting the carrier frequency) Dec 02 02:06:43 DocScrutinizer: do you know which make the proximity sensor is? Dec 02 02:06:45 that's aslo been duscussed. easily accomplished via hs-jack Dec 02 02:07:15 DocScrutinizer: are there any detailed docs on the cam itself? does it use a physical shutter? Dec 02 02:07:42 nomis: nope, but obviously an ntegrated pulsed reflective IR detector, with integrated logics for controlling Dec 02 02:08:07 DocScrutinizer: why "obviously"? Dec 02 02:08:36 javispedro: the reason i wish there was a IR detector is that the tv-out lead isn't quite long enough... Dec 02 02:08:39 BCMM: no phy shutter for shure. fcam team claims the docs are available, also other cam app house sayd the same Dec 02 02:08:59 DocScrutinizer: well, what's the fastest you can take photos with fcam :) Dec 02 02:09:19 nomis: from inspection with camera and looking at the schamtics Dec 02 02:09:59 schematics* Dec 02 02:10:08 does fcam even do video stuff? Dec 02 02:10:38 "video stuff"? Dec 02 02:10:51 whatever it does, it tinkers with cam chip settings Dec 02 02:11:16 aaah BlessN900 was the name Dec 02 02:11:39 they said N900 is the only device where you can get specs and datasheets for camchip Dec 02 02:11:53 blessn900 screwed up my camera sadly Dec 02 02:11:58 DocScrutinizer: oh, as in use the n900-specific bits of fcam as an example of low-level messing with the camera's chip Dec 02 02:12:10 yes Dec 02 02:12:12 everytime id engage the lens cover it would start up and crash Dec 02 02:12:33 usually that fixes itself on restart... Dec 02 02:13:28 nope Dec 02 02:13:31 I had to restore Dec 02 02:13:47 but it was cool after, id dl it again because it was an easy fix Dec 02 02:13:56 nomis: a chip with VDD, GND, and signal-out pins can't work like pulsing IR without integrated logic Dec 02 02:14:09 I think it was cause I got it off -devel Dec 02 02:15:10 hey DocScrutinizer Dec 02 02:15:21 hey Texrat :-D Dec 02 02:15:33 you seem to be having fun tonight Dec 02 02:15:43 not more than usual Dec 02 02:15:57 hehe Dec 02 02:16:24 Texrat: what makes you say that? Dec 02 02:16:39 just a lotta chatting ;) Dec 02 02:16:55 most of it was timeless_mbp though :-P Dec 02 02:17:09 irreco is such a mess :) Dec 02 02:17:37 that's a statement we can agree upon easily Dec 02 02:17:49 let's liven things up even more Dec 02 02:17:57 any suggested mythbusters episode to watch? Dec 02 02:18:30 ooh poor mans mcgyver? I hate it, it's so.... stupid Dec 02 02:18:36 example? Dec 02 02:18:49 dunno, asking Dec 02 02:18:56 I think I already watched mcgyver one Dec 02 02:19:02 javispedro: just get mcgyver Dec 02 02:19:10 accept no substitutes :) Dec 02 02:19:28 test a hanging bridge stability, but forget to fix the cables in rigid cable blocks Dec 02 02:19:34 heh Dec 02 02:20:27 * javispedro wanders through wikipedia episode list Dec 02 02:20:52 hey how do I right click in easy-debian? Dec 02 02:21:16 got it Dec 02 02:21:17 nm Dec 02 02:21:25 DocScrutinizer: mhm, It is a pity that the "Reflective Optical Switch" doesn't have a proper part number. Or did I miss it? The "N1540" seems to be some coordinate for locating the chip in the device. Dec 02 02:21:26 you hold the tap like in microb Dec 02 02:21:30 they built a model, and placed it on two supports, without fixing the cables to anything rigid Dec 02 02:21:33 myu: thank god, because I was about to say "you can't". Dec 02 02:22:16 nomis: yes, alas these schematics are missing part numbers for all parts Dec 02 02:23:01 N1540 is the schematics name Dec 02 02:24:22 DocScrutinizer: the IR light sent out from this is modulated? Dec 02 02:24:32 pulsed Dec 02 02:24:33 given a good approximation to diffuse lighting (cloudy day), i wonder how hard it would be to get a 3d image by comparing a photo with and without flash... Dec 02 02:25:09 nomis: low freq, like a few per second Dec 02 02:25:21 DocScrutinizer: oh, then this is probably due to power saving. Dec 02 02:25:26 yes Dec 02 02:25:38 DocScrutinizer: then I doubt that there is additional logic in the sensor. Dec 02 02:25:47 sure there is Dec 02 02:25:58 what else would do the pulsing? Dec 02 02:28:39 DocScrutinizer: there could be some internal more-or-less passive components (like a small resonant circuit) that gets set in its frequency by the "prog" resistor. Or they are really evil and switch the power supply. Dec 02 02:29:12 the power supply is not a dedicated one Dec 02 02:30:03 * nomis looks for the "other end" of the BTB connector Dec 02 02:33:22 indeed. Dec 02 02:34:05 So if that pulse indeed affects the sensing side of the sensor as well, there is indeed no chance of abusing this. Dec 02 02:34:30 for that we'd need a datasheet :) Dec 02 02:35:02 nomis: It has to affect sensing side as well. There needs to be a latch Dec 02 02:36:01 I'm pretty sure the output isn't pulsed like the IR is, rather it's latched on every IR pulse and sticks to this level until next pulse Dec 02 02:36:21 good point. Dec 02 02:36:55 toldya it's useless for CIR detection Dec 02 02:36:57 heh, this might even explain the (for me) piss poor response time when removing the phone from my ear and waiting for the UI to reappear... :) Dec 02 02:37:24 might be, yes Dec 02 02:37:40 DocScrutinizer: sorry for not immediately buying everything someone tells me. Dec 02 02:37:53 I'm quite sure it can't be significantly faster than a few 100ms Dec 02 02:38:52 any of you have a hack to make minitube more reliable with slow youtube feed? Dec 02 02:38:53 i grepped around the source to find a buffer to increase but no luck Dec 02 02:38:54 nomis: when I do, you usually can :-D unless I include terms like "AIUI", "IIRC", "AFAIK" or "probably" Dec 02 02:39:30 ...or "I'm quite sure" :-D Dec 02 02:39:50 DocScrutinizer: I don't buy this. :-) Dec 02 02:40:16 good boy Dec 02 02:41:14 hey Dec 02 02:41:39 I actually wonder if that statement is not somewhat paradoxical in itself, since it included the very terms you told me to distrust. :-)) Dec 02 02:41:55 oh nm Dec 02 02:42:12 I really ought to stop looking for help, I know im capable of solving most of these issue Dec 02 02:42:20 I think im just scared to brick my phone Dec 02 02:42:24 nomis: congrats, you passed the test Dec 02 02:42:38 * nomis stops this line of thought and ponders hitting the bed. Dec 02 02:42:42 DocScrutinizer: what did he win? Dec 02 02:42:53 my respect :-D Dec 02 02:43:23 hah! Dec 02 02:43:25 in $? Dec 02 02:43:53 javispedro: EUR for me please :] Dec 02 02:43:56 I like it when people want to understand why I came to certain conclusions, and they refuse to stop asking for that info Dec 02 02:44:56 in the end that's the whole point about why such a community is fun Dec 02 02:45:20 DocScrutinizer: I am still not convinced about the IR-capture-by-camera thing though, although I probably am no longer in a state to follow the argument. Dec 02 02:46:15 nomis: it's a very fuzzy idea yet. There's some indications it *might* be feasible, in one way or another Dec 02 02:46:17 DocScrutinizer: ...unless you manage to crank out 1000fps (maybe with a very small AOI) bright enough to see the IR. Dec 02 02:46:21 no POC though yet Dec 02 02:47:01 from image manipulation I know that it is possible to refocus unsharp images computationally, which strikes me as a similiar problem, but you have to know a lot about the relevant convolution kernel there. Dec 02 02:47:15 nomis: given the fact we have some knowledge about the properties of the signal we expect to see, we can use some ciute filtering Dec 02 02:47:16 (the captured IR signal is unsharp over the time) Dec 02 02:48:00 nomis: you could use a filter that cut out light other than your IR to help with that Dec 02 02:48:12 bright enough to see the ir, i mean Dec 02 02:48:16 given the fact it's a repetitive signal, we can even do further simplifications Dec 02 02:50:11 BCMM_: mhm, you need an awful lot of light to shoot images with 1000fps, I doubt that a IR led in a as-cheap-as-possible IR would cut it. When using lower fps with fancy filtering magic it is a different beast though. Dec 02 02:50:29 nomis: then if we could also exploit side efects of the optical sensor in cam that usually are considered undesirable... Dec 02 02:51:44 we could (theoretically) reduce the frame dimensions to 1x1 Dec 02 02:52:04 so reducing the needed bandwidth on video bus Dec 02 02:52:23 nomis: yes, but reducing the noise would help. slightly. Dec 02 02:52:41 holding the remote LED directly to the lens will drastically improve S/N Dec 02 02:53:03 DocScrutinizer: you can resize the image on the camera chip? Dec 02 02:53:45 obviously. Video is taken at VGA or sth like that, while still shots are 2 different possible formats by themselves Dec 02 02:54:26 oh, of course Dec 02 02:54:32 so yes, you can select different formats Dec 02 02:54:50 DocScrutinizer: depending on the camera chip it *might* be necessary to read out a very significant portion of the chip area (and then throwing away most of the information for 1x1). I am not really an expert on that, but I know that some camera sensors need that for some reason. Dec 02 02:54:53 I doubt you can select 1x1. But that's sth to check back with datasheet Dec 02 02:55:19 i suppose i'm slightly startled that it varies arbitrarily rather than having a full-res and video-res setting Dec 02 02:55:24 oh Dec 02 02:56:15 (having no clue on camera chips I can only do a hazardeous guess, that it might be necessary to drain charges from the chip to avoid them influencing the interesting parts) Dec 02 02:56:37 :nod: Dec 02 02:57:24 I once did linux-driver programming for these cameras: http://www.baslerweb.com/beitraege/beitrag_en_101458.html - but they put the heavy lifting of sensor control into a FPGA. Lots of weird parameters though. Dec 02 02:57:48 still IIRC the cam module offers exposure times of down to 1/1000 Dec 02 02:59:14 yeah, but this does not necessarily translate to 1000fps. The cameras mentioned above did go down to 10µs IIRC, but the maximum framerate was like 100fps or so. Dec 02 02:59:44 (there is a ton of infrastructure between CPU and sensor though...) Dec 02 02:59:45 DocScrutinizer: ah, but how long does it need in between to read and reset the ccd? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 02 02:59:58 2010