**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 06 02:59:57 2010 Dec 06 03:00:44 johnx: ok - its finding the mp3s on the card - let me check to see if i lost the ogg support stuff somehow... Dec 06 03:01:33 johnx: ogg-support is installed Dec 06 03:04:26 i have tracker-extractor-vorbis Dec 06 03:11:46 outrageous Dec 06 03:12:28 apt-get remove ogg-support touches every ogg file in the main fs Dec 06 03:20:08 ok - that seems to have fixed it... Dec 06 03:59:05 uhm my camera stopped working suddenly. /me checks tmo threads Dec 06 04:06:30 bef0rd, reboot Dec 06 04:17:54 good morning Dec 06 04:20:45 bef0rd: yeah, i've had that, reboot always fixed it for me Dec 06 04:29:57 thanks. gonna try that after finnish scanning the internal MMC for filesystem errors Dec 06 04:38:57 almost got groove on to a pulse backend Dec 06 04:39:00 instead of phonon Dec 06 04:49:32 still operation failed, it seems like MyDocs is mounted as rodir Dec 06 04:58:19 mmmm good ramen and i am about to have dinner Dec 06 04:58:37 we have really, really good ramen just an easy 10-15 min walk away Dec 06 05:57:51 what's 0x1212121212 in binary? Dec 06 05:58:03 need it for my school's WIP Dec 06 05:58:04 WEP even Dec 06 05:59:06 0001001000010010000100100001001000010010 Dec 06 07:05:44 hi to all Dec 06 07:06:11 someone know if is planned to develore maemo for nokia N-97 N97mini and so on? Dec 06 07:06:32 symbian is very slow and not secure Dec 06 07:06:46 exist a toolchain to develope on N97-mini ? Dec 06 07:07:02 sdk or other things to help? Dec 06 07:10:31 maemo has already reached end of life, and won't be supported on any new devices... Dec 06 07:11:24 i'd doubt there will be any community effort to bring it to the n97, or likely any symbian phone... Dec 06 07:47:43 how would I make mediaplayer open an URL like mmsh://ondemand.msmedia.zdf.newmedia.nacamar.net/zdf/data/msmedia/3sat/10/12/101202_sendung_nano_h.wmv except by editing an existing video bookmark? Is there *any* way for direct URL entry? Dec 06 07:48:37 use non stock media player Dec 06 07:49:08 for instance? Dec 06 07:49:20 morning Dec 06 07:49:27 morn Dec 06 07:50:29 gn (ugt) Dec 06 07:55:17 Hmm, very quiet in here.... Dec 06 08:01:36 Hi! Where does microb store its cache? Dec 06 08:03:00 under ~/.mozilla I guess Dec 06 08:03:27 or perhaps ~/.browser Dec 06 08:06:57 OK Dec 06 08:12:58 Linux question: have three SATA disks, all 640GB identical models. They are /dev/sda, b, and c respectively. One is connected via USB - How can I tell which it is? Dec 06 08:13:35 lsusb give anything? Dec 06 08:13:46 oh, they are identical, hmm Dec 06 08:14:13 unplug the usb one and see which one vanishes ;) Dec 06 08:14:45 lsusb doesn't seem to show any. And I'd like -not- to do that, because they are all part of a raid which my boot drive is on Dec 06 08:15:10 sure Dec 06 08:18:01 dmesg might give you a clue, if it's still fresh Dec 06 08:23:53 pulling the disk out is gonna be the most straightforward way, presumably theyre raid5? Dec 06 08:28:57 anyone know how the word suggestion stuff is implemented and if it's possible to copy that in e.g. a Python program? Dec 06 08:36:01 lardman: afaik it's in the textinput box. At least xchat has it too, so why shouldn't it work in a python prog? Dec 06 08:36:59 I guess the relevant bindings will be available Dec 06 08:38:03 hi Dec 06 08:39:25 hm Dec 06 08:39:36 anybody know a good osx vnc client that can do scaling? Dec 06 08:40:12 Macer, the built-in one ... Dec 06 08:41:38 there's a built in one? :) Dec 06 08:41:44 in leopard? Dec 06 08:41:49 i got the one from darwin ports but meh Dec 06 08:42:23 i can't seem to figure out how to scale it if it even does and scrolling is a pain and it's for an xp home computer which doesn't do rdp :/ Dec 06 08:45:39 Macer, in finder: cmd+k, then: vnc://hostname.local Dec 06 08:45:58 no way Dec 06 08:46:21 also, xp home can be registry hacked to support rdp I think Dec 06 08:47:21 omg johnx .. i never knew that Dec 06 08:47:28 that's so awesome Dec 06 08:47:33 it's not a great vnc client, but it's not *bad* Dec 06 08:47:56 it scales Dec 06 08:47:58 that's all i care about ;) Dec 06 08:48:24 the coolest thing is it actually supports multi-monitors pretty well too Dec 06 08:51:03 Well. Moorning all. Heya johnx, Macer Dec 06 08:51:27 hallo RST38h. played with git much? Dec 06 08:52:03 nah, not orgasmic about version control systems Dec 06 08:52:17 johnx: crap i'm just happy it works lol Dec 06 08:52:24 johnx, need help? Dec 06 08:52:26 that is way better than the tightvnc from the macports tree Dec 06 08:52:53 crashanddie, any good way to find the first revision a pattern appeared in (in this case a specific function)? Dec 06 08:52:59 johnx: what's full screen? Dec 06 08:53:01 cmd+f ? Dec 06 08:53:07 to get it to go full screen? :) Dec 06 08:53:10 johnx, bisect can help Dec 06 08:53:12 Macer, no key bindings I think ... Dec 06 08:53:22 hm Dec 06 08:53:31 since otherwise you couldn't send those to the host ;) Dec 06 08:55:13 johnx, or you can do the pickaxe search Dec 06 08:55:20 johnx, git log -S'line that was added' Dec 06 08:55:30 and it will show you the logs Dec 06 08:56:05 maemo has already reached end of life, and won't be supported on any new devices... Dec 06 08:56:38 the symbian source code is available to comunity? Dec 06 08:56:52 also gsm drivers, protocols, and so? Dec 06 08:57:53 if nokia refuses to switch to linux, i trow my n97 and buy a china phone. Dec 06 08:58:02 n97 firmware is so bad Dec 06 08:58:11 slow and unstable Dec 06 08:58:36 the comunity want linux kernel running on nokia cpus Dec 06 08:58:43 MoL0ToV, and #maemo really isn't the channel to talk about Symbian Dec 06 08:59:15 NoL0ToV: Thank you for your data input. Where do you want to go today? Dec 06 09:01:42 new freddy kreuger sucks Dec 06 09:01:50 just not the same without robert england Dec 06 09:02:39 Macer: Wasn't very scary to begin with Dec 06 09:03:15 yeah. it was more humor than horror ;) Dec 06 09:03:29 MoL0ToV: check the code for yourself Dec 06 09:03:31 but still. this new guy just simply can't pull it off Dec 06 09:03:49 hm. i need to reg hack this box so i can rdp to it Dec 06 09:03:52 stupid xp home :) Dec 06 09:04:10 but xp is the most compatible with what i need it for Dec 06 09:04:33 i'm remuxing my dts mkvs into ac3 so i don't run into dts decoder problems Dec 06 09:05:01 my popcornhour doesn't have a built in dts decoder and i need a better tv center because the cables are so ugly when i have the receiver hooked up Dec 06 09:05:12 DocScrutinizer: cheers Dec 06 09:07:59 hmm, confusing, I'm using PyObject_CallMethod() to get a PyObject* yet it seems to go out of scope immediately, I need to block and let the Python code run somehow Dec 06 09:08:10 me does some googling Dec 06 09:09:12 i hope meego gets going for my n900.. would be nice to get a fully functional os that won't be outdated heh Dec 06 09:09:20 or nitdroid.. nitdroid would be nice too :) Dec 06 09:11:59 * lardman thinks that perhaps providing a window created in C++ would solve this issue, then just wait for it to be destroyed, assuming events will work in the Python code Dec 06 09:18:10 Macer: you'll have to be patient for MeeGo Dec 06 09:18:22 lardman: what's the problem? Dec 06 09:18:51 trying to get mbarcode python plugins to do something useful Dec 06 09:19:41 Venemo_N900: yeah :( Dec 06 09:19:42 sucks Dec 06 09:19:43 heh Dec 06 09:20:29 lardman: ouch. Dec 06 09:20:47 Macer: MeeGo is nowhere near usable (yet) Dec 06 09:22:47 Venemo_N900: yeah i heard ;) Dec 06 09:22:58 nitdroid is for the most part Dec 06 09:23:07 morning lardman Dec 06 09:23:16 at the very least it has the modem working :) Dec 06 09:23:24 that was a pretty huge step. nice to see that going Dec 06 09:23:24 lardman: impossible happened yesterday: mbarcode has done somethign useful! Dec 06 09:23:33 can't wait to get meego 1.2 on my n900 Dec 06 09:23:33 hi RST38h Dec 06 09:23:36 portrait please Dec 06 09:23:45 RST38h: what was the useful thing then? :) Dec 06 09:23:47 Morning, all Dec 06 09:23:58 morning Jaffa Dec 06 09:24:00 lardman: scanned a pack of cookies, did google search, brought up some online store offering to buy the same cookies Dec 06 09:24:05 :) Dec 06 09:24:22 lardman: [note: scanned it casually, while in the kitchen] Dec 06 09:24:48 well that wasn't useful, you already had said cookies Dec 06 09:24:54 RST38h: hahha! Dec 06 09:25:07 lardman: BTW, for some reason mbarcode goes to sleep on startup and needs some coercing to wake up (usually by flicking camera cover) Dec 06 09:25:09 RST38h: did you buy them? Dec 06 09:25:38 Macer: No, I have another 2 unopened packs hoarded =) Dec 06 09:25:45 haha! Dec 06 09:26:24 barcode scanners in android worked rather well Dec 06 09:26:44 although it took quite a while to get a good scan with the cam with my G1 back in teh day Dec 06 09:27:16 mBarcode needs to startup faster Dec 06 09:27:27 and I also need to find some time to write some more useful/cool plugins Dec 06 09:27:46 should be reasonably quiet now that I'm back from India, I hope Dec 06 09:27:58 how was it? Dec 06 09:28:05 lardman: last time i was in india it was horrible Dec 06 09:28:08 worse than iraq :) Dec 06 09:28:15 warmer than here, long week though Dec 06 09:28:22 lots of work to do, etc Dec 06 09:28:29 worst place i saw on the planet actually Dec 06 09:28:41 lol Dec 06 09:28:46 Macer, I guess that highly depends on where you go, and what you do Dec 06 09:28:46 singapore was probably one of the best Dec 06 09:28:57 well. we were in mumbai Dec 06 09:29:08 there was probably like 3 blocks of non-ghetto Dec 06 09:29:16 lmao Dec 06 09:29:22 the rest was a cesspool Dec 06 09:29:23 :) Dec 06 09:29:25 "ghetto" Dec 06 09:29:33 It's certainly dirty and you have to watch what you eat/drink/etc, also difficult getting round as there are no pavements and mad drivers Dec 06 09:29:35 hahahahaha Dec 06 09:29:43 crashanddie: ghetto is being kind Dec 06 09:30:10 because the worst ghettoes here in chicago do not even come close in compairson to the disgust i walked through in india Dec 06 09:31:00 even iraq was better :) Dec 06 09:31:10 figures, only a narrowminded american could say stupid shit like that Dec 06 09:31:22 crashanddie: hey. i could only say what i saw ;) Dec 06 09:31:43 and i've seen the worst ghettoes here... and comparing it to india.. india has chicago beat by a landslide Dec 06 09:32:18 it isn't really being narrowminded when you have women walking up asking to buy their newborns then just throwing them into the street when you don't Dec 06 09:32:34 obviously the quality of life is much lower in the area of india i was touring :) Dec 06 09:33:52 maybe i was just in a very bad area.. but compared to what i had to fall back on in life... i found india to be one place that i would not mind never going to ever again :) Dec 06 09:36:10 Macer, only an idiot would blacklist a one billion-strong country on the basis he visited some whorestreet. There are areas in Paris where you can lose your life (if just that) for looking the wrong person in the eye, but it would be foolish to discount the whole of France as a bad destination on that basis, no? Dec 06 09:38:28 http://fliptomato.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/medical-researcher-discovers-integration-gets-75-citations/ Dec 06 09:40:20 crashanddie: possibly :) Dec 06 09:40:34 fair enough Dec 06 09:40:55 just had a bad experience and although there were a few nice areas the majority of the area was horrid Dec 06 09:40:59 I'm pretty sure every country has some worse/better places, but in my experience, India is a very enjoyable and pleasant destination. Let's compare Cass corridor in Detroit with Santana Row in SJ. Dec 06 09:41:12 if i find a cockroach in a bic mac it would probably take me a while to eat at mcdonalds again as well Dec 06 09:41:21 true Dec 06 09:41:22 RST38h: lol, a revolution, think of all the useful things one could use integration for :) Dec 06 09:43:32 lardman: And the guy isn't even Steve Jobs! Dec 06 09:44:41 * RST38h has a rule of avoiding places with hot climates, lots of people, and no sanitation Dec 06 09:46:28 I wish Ovi would stop taunting me by sending me emails about what I could do with me phone (if it were a symbian phone and had uptodate Ovi Maps)# Dec 06 09:46:49 filters, they rule Dec 06 09:47:07 lardman: unsubscribe link? :) Dec 06 09:47:14 well it's nice to see what it's like to live on the other side still ;) Dec 06 09:47:36 haha loosing you life in paris. Dec 06 09:48:17 I don't know what you do for a living crashanddie, but it looks dangerous Dec 06 09:48:25 marmoute: Easy, just cross a street the wrong way. Dec 06 09:48:50 hmm, crossing the street in India is an experience Dec 06 09:49:24 basically just walk, they don't tend to hit people too often Dec 06 09:49:34 bloody scary though Dec 06 09:49:40 so statistically speaking, you're safe? Dec 06 09:50:06 yes, and I reckon I'm taller and heavier than the average Indian car too, so they will try to avoid hitting me ;) Dec 06 09:50:48 marmoute, convoyeur de fonds autour d'aubervilliers... Dec 06 09:50:51 They will get you with a Tata truck instead Dec 06 09:51:15 yeah, one with no working brakes, that is a minor worry Dec 06 09:54:52 lardman: Seen any Ganges dolphins? Dec 06 09:55:28 no, saw some tombs and monuments but other than that was a busy week working Dec 06 09:59:03 lardman, hang on... did you and your wife get a private visit of the Taj Mahal? Dec 06 09:59:41 yeah they moved some French chap back a bit to fit us in ;) Dec 06 09:59:51 thought as much :P Dec 06 10:00:11 nah Holly didn't go Dec 06 10:25:54 7 Dec 06 10:39:16 please give thumbs up for this, it's a nice app http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/cumulus/2.9.1-1/ Dec 06 10:39:35 cos^: what app is it? Dec 06 10:40:16 it's a gliding navigation app Dec 06 10:40:36 cos^: elaborate pls :) Dec 06 10:40:47 i've used (and a little bit developed) it for long time Dec 06 10:41:18 a bit like mappero but for aviation use :-) Dec 06 10:41:30 shows moving map and some information Dec 06 10:41:40 Sounds a bit to much like columbus for my liking. Dec 06 10:41:53 Have you announced it in the forums? Dec 06 10:42:11 http://www.kflog.org/cumulus/screenshots/ Dec 06 10:42:47 nope, but it's known in the gliding community Dec 06 10:43:15 Cool, Dec 06 10:43:24 Get them to vote :P Dec 06 10:43:34 I don't glide, so I can't test to vote it :P Dec 06 10:44:05 cos^: it looks great, but unfortunately I've never glided Dec 06 10:44:10 alterego, this isn't your app? (yours is columbus yes?) Dec 06 10:44:21 lcuk: exactly :P Dec 06 10:44:36 cos^, thanks for the hint, i will see if I can get an attachment on my dads glider Dec 06 10:44:38 lcuk: I thought, cumulus sounded a bit like columbus :P Dec 06 10:45:02 the screenshot shows an n810 with car holder Dec 06 10:45:10 * lcuk hasnt seen one for n900 Dec 06 10:45:35 where can i change which device/partition the will mount automaticaly for /media/mmc1? Dec 06 10:45:39 You can get various misc phone holders, but getting one to work in portrait may be the tricky part. Dec 06 10:45:45 Though maybe it's easy, I don't know :) Dec 06 10:46:09 lcuk: the author prefers using n810 as it has larger display and easier support for usb serial converter Dec 06 10:46:37 cos^, thats handy then, i have a spare n810 that has always been happy for mapping Dec 06 10:46:40 alterego: it can be tested on the ground. it can even download the maps Dec 06 10:47:06 i've been developing more finger friendly ui for cumulus, but it's not yet in the official versions Dec 06 10:47:07 Well, I'd like to test it, but I'm very deep in my own stuff at the moment :P Dec 06 10:47:21 cos^, if you have an n900 Dec 06 10:47:25 have a look at cloudgps Dec 06 10:47:42 :) extremely slick ui Dec 06 10:50:55 looks nice Dec 06 10:52:15 btw has erminig extras-dev version broken completely? Dec 06 10:52:29 *cough* mine will be better *cough* Dec 06 10:52:30 cos^, how does cumulus download maps Dec 06 10:52:44 You could write cumulus as a plugin for columbus Dec 06 10:52:47 does it need to be done at home Dec 06 10:52:55 lcuk: it has them somewhere on server and pre-downloads them when started for first time Dec 06 10:52:59 I wanted to implement an aeronautical profile .. Dec 06 10:53:19 alterego, columbus is a swish looking compass isnt it? Dec 06 10:53:34 at least thats all I get from the photos Dec 06 10:53:34 It's more than just a bearing indicator :P Dec 06 10:53:41 perhaps you should release so people can see :P Dec 06 10:53:46 Heh Dec 06 10:54:22 is there any info about columbus somewhere? i can't find on google Dec 06 10:54:31 alterego: yeah, release it! Dec 06 10:54:36 :P Dec 06 10:54:50 cos^: alterego hasn't released it yet. noone's seen it yet Dec 06 10:54:58 cos^: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/index.html Dec 06 10:55:03 I'm starting to believe it's vapourware Dec 06 10:55:09 It is vapour ware! :P Dec 06 10:55:21 lcuk: yep you should pre-download the maps, as usually during flight there is no internet connection Dec 06 10:55:35 Heh Dec 06 10:55:38 cos^, sure, that was my thought Dec 06 10:56:04 that's why google or os maps can't be used easily Dec 06 10:56:32 my dad goes hang gliding Dec 06 10:57:07 and paragliding too Dec 06 10:57:17 * lcuk still waiting for him to do ski gliding tho Dec 06 10:57:22 alterego: is there also a map view or it's just the compass Dec 06 10:57:23 Heh Dec 06 10:57:36 There's a trackview Dec 06 10:57:49 I'm undecided whether I'll implement maps. Dec 06 10:58:06 There's already a crap tonne of mapping apps and that's not really the "purpose" of Columbus Dec 06 10:58:30 lcuk: you could show cumulus to him then.. it should give him all navigation stuff needed Dec 06 10:58:59 indeed, I will cos^, thanks for highlighting it :) Dec 06 10:59:25 alterego: it'd be a nicer experience if I could see my track on a map Dec 06 11:00:09 I know, I have been tempted to implement it I must say. Dec 06 11:00:35 alterego: and I like the background image of the app Dec 06 11:00:37 alterego, you have the most awesome looking compass Dec 06 11:00:45 alterego: where did you get it? Dec 06 11:00:45 lcuk: :) Dec 06 11:00:57 I made it in The GIMMP Dec 06 11:01:05 nice Dec 06 11:01:05 -1xM Dec 06 11:01:43 alterego: port it to symbian and sell it on ovi Dec 06 11:02:01 I don't have an N8 Dec 06 11:02:30 borrow one Dec 06 11:02:53 I wonder how people would react to a free maemo edition and a paid for Symbian one :D Dec 06 11:03:24 well 99% of Symbian users don't know what Maemo is Dec 06 11:03:31 Yeah Dec 06 11:03:45 also you could make it a paid yet OSS app Dec 06 11:04:48 bbiam Dec 06 11:12:12 how do you guys cope with the terminal "losing" enter and arrow key functionality? Dec 06 11:12:37 Never had it happen to me... Dec 06 11:12:43 i keep hitting reset but it doesnt always work with nested screens Dec 06 11:13:19 or it will fix entee but not arrows Dec 06 11:13:35 *enter Dec 06 11:14:26 MohammadAG: DocScrutinizer51 is there anything to know about powerkernel46? Dec 06 11:18:46 RobbieThe1st: yeah its the nested screens that cause it. Dec 06 11:18:55 very annoying problem. Dec 06 11:22:15 chem|st: it has issues Dec 06 11:22:29 what can I say? Dec 06 11:39:35 0001001000010010000100100001001000010010 <-- can't be a WEP can it? Dec 06 11:41:56 sure it can Dec 06 11:42:11 convert it to ascii Dec 06 11:42:14 Well, hex Dec 06 11:43:57 it was in hex Dec 06 11:44:02 what's 0x1212121212 in binary? Dec 06 11:45:50 hex pairs Dec 06 11:46:17 representing an ascii string of 5 or more characters Dec 06 11:47:08 .toString() didn't work :P (jk) Dec 06 11:47:25 Heh Dec 06 11:48:15  <-- I wonder what this is o_O Dec 06 11:48:31 form feed Dec 06 11:48:39 err? Dec 06 11:48:42 DocScrutinizer51: issues? Dec 06 11:48:50 I think that is what 0x12 is Dec 06 11:50:35 exist a chan about maemo/symbian comunity developement for N-series nokia? Dec 06 11:51:21 MohammadAG: absolutely correct. I've never seen any WEP UI where you enter keys in BINARY(!) Dec 06 11:51:52 MoL0ToV: QT? Dec 06 11:52:06 chem|st: issues Dec 06 11:52:38 or, if you like that better, it's annoying buggy Dec 06 11:52:41 chem|st, you mean qt library of kde project? Dec 06 11:53:10 MoL0ToV: I mean the platform Qt Dec 06 11:53:10 meh, cba to know what the pass was anymore Dec 06 11:53:18 changed the network to open Dec 06 11:53:34 on that note, who the fuck links a secure router to an open one and makes the open one's pass admin/admin? Dec 06 11:53:42 other than my school of course Dec 06 11:53:48 chem|st: at very least it has that LP5523 ""patch"" that meakes indicator and kbd LEDs go bonkers Dec 06 11:53:50 MohammadAG: nice Dec 06 11:54:13 DocScrutinizer: indicator? Dec 06 11:54:25 indicator LED? Dec 06 11:54:36 what does it do? Dec 06 11:54:46 You should have seen it Dec 06 11:55:00 DocScrutinizer: mine behaves normal Dec 06 11:55:13 DocScrutinizer: at least for now Dec 06 11:55:14 mine too Dec 06 11:55:17 reinstall kernel-power and reboot Dec 06 11:55:29 MohammadAG: is it on first boot? Dec 06 11:55:31 I'm on pr1.2 kernel :-P Dec 06 11:55:33 sometimes you get the bug, others times, not really Dec 06 11:55:57 chem|st, it's only affected by kernel-power, and last I checked, that doesn't ship with the stock image Dec 06 11:56:13 it's totally random, and when it happens, you need to remove the battery Dec 06 11:56:46 \o/ Dec 06 11:56:55 MohammadAG: ok so some time my device goes nuts and I have to remove the battery? what is the difference to pr1.3 stock? Dec 06 11:56:56 I really hope Nokia doesn't solder the battery in the N9 Dec 06 11:57:09 your device, not your LEDs Dec 06 11:57:22 FUCKING KERNEL-POWER Dec 06 11:57:24 Nokia-N900:~# ls /sys/class/leds/ Dec 06 11:57:24 twl4030:vibrator Dec 06 11:57:25 Nokia-N900:~# Dec 06 11:57:47 ehrm ouch Dec 06 11:57:52 chem|st: if that's a correct characterization of PR1.3 kernel, then it will have a hard time to make its way onto my device Dec 06 11:57:56 chem|st, QT is a sdk? exist something open-source operating system to load and run on a N-series nokia phone? Dec 06 11:57:57 MohammadAG: what? Dec 06 11:58:17 the sysnode doesn't get regged Dec 06 11:58:44 kerio: what? Dec 06 11:59:10 MoL0ToV: Qt is a crossplatform environment used in kde/windows/meego/maemo/symbian... Dec 06 11:59:19 kerio: chem|st: matan ""patch" to lp5523.ko Dec 06 12:00:06 instead of properly fixing that kinky driver, he fubar'd it Dec 06 12:00:40 MoL0ToV: you are asking for a devel channel for maemo/symbian there might be a qt channel out there Dec 06 12:00:46 for absolutely obscure reasons and purpose Dec 06 12:01:15 DocScrutinizer: it is not a kernel characterization but a PR1.3 one Dec 06 12:01:27 remind me why the fuck I need to have rtcom-call-ui and rtcom-call-ui.launch Dec 06 12:01:29 mhm Dec 06 12:01:31 seems since 1.1.1 it is getting worse Dec 06 12:01:45 no, it's kernel-power specific Dec 06 12:01:48 MohammadAG: why *.launch? Dec 06 12:02:08 yes, why do I have them Dec 06 12:02:27 MohammadAG: *.launch does some lib preload and sharing Dec 06 12:03:04 so when I need to sed the call UI, which one do I edit? Dec 06 12:03:19 not the *.launch Dec 06 12:03:41 check them, they all point to same executable iirc Dec 06 12:04:16 it's kind of a universal lib-preloader wrapper Dec 06 12:04:21 whatd call-ui do now? Dec 06 12:04:30 what are you replacing there?:D Dec 06 12:04:35 hehe Dec 06 12:04:55 actually Dec 06 12:05:28 .launch has the functions Dec 06 12:05:42 the binary points to the .launch file Dec 06 12:07:42 oops you're right Dec 06 12:07:45 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 2010-06-23 05:10 /usr/bin/osso-addressbook -> maemo-invoker Dec 06 12:08:24 of course, as you call the without-.launch file to start an app Dec 06 12:08:36 so what you call has to be the wrapper Dec 06 12:15:00 oh nice Dec 06 12:15:17 breaking rtcom-call-ui -> phone doesn't ring Dec 06 12:15:24 nice call blocker, I'll keep it in mind Dec 06 12:15:41 heh Dec 06 12:16:14 errr Dec 06 13:10:54 hmm.. i guess maemo-xinput-sounds is an useless process Dec 06 13:11:22 it's for screen feedback Dec 06 13:11:44 yeah as much i figured from strings and google Dec 06 13:12:41 having one of those must-remove-everything-unnecessary -binges Dec 06 13:13:23 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/06/reindeer_attack/ ! Dec 06 13:16:10 For some reason, my Python install seems to be borked Dec 06 13:16:41 Any python application i try to start just give an error about (insertmodulehere) not found Dec 06 13:17:11 for example, mobilehotspot: ImportError: No module named dbus Dec 06 13:17:35 or ipython: ImportError: No module named IPython.Shell Dec 06 13:18:06 FIQ|n900: sounds fun! Dec 06 13:18:16 indeed Dec 06 13:18:37 Isn't it any possibility to revert, like reinstalling python? Dec 06 13:18:54 python has grown to a problem... yeah try reinstalling it Dec 06 13:22:10 * DocScrutinizer glares at python-optify Dec 06 13:22:14 bah, isn't there any "reinstall" command? As removing python also removes many applications that depend on it Dec 06 13:22:33 FIQ|n900, apt-get install --reinstall Dec 06 13:22:38 FIQ|n900: check your mounts. Are there some python bindmounts? Dec 06 13:22:42 ah, ok Dec 06 13:22:46 @ baraujo Dec 06 13:22:52 hm, i can check Dec 06 13:23:22 seems so Dec 06 13:23:26 /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5 on /usr/lib/python2.5 type bind (bind) Dec 06 13:23:28 /opt/pymaemo/usr/share/pyshared on /usr/share/pyshared type bind (bind) Dec 06 13:23:29 /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/pyshared on /usr/lib/pyshared type bind (bind) Dec 06 13:23:31 /opt/pymaemo/usr/share/python-support on /usr/share/python-support type bind (bind) Dec 06 13:23:32 /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python-support on /usr/lib/python-support type bind (bind) Dec 06 13:23:35 5 Dec 06 13:23:38 yep Dec 06 13:23:51 k, no clue then Dec 06 13:23:55 reinstall Dec 06 13:25:36 Didn't help, should i reinstall every package? Dec 06 13:25:50 (just reinstalled python) Dec 06 13:26:15 every package as in every related to python Dec 06 13:27:52 I'd try an uninstall purge the python packages, to discard any config files as well. Then force-reinstall the apps that use python, this should pull the dependencies automatically. But I'm talking outa my a.. here, as I have no idea of packaging and/or apt / deb-pkgs Dec 06 13:28:20 maybe you make your system go up in smoke by following this advice Dec 06 13:28:35 err ""advice"" Dec 06 13:31:16 heard of some nasty concept recently which creates c and then binaries out of python libs and programs. I'd not be surprised to find such an 'optimizer' fsck up your system Dec 06 13:35:21 gah, i hate when HAM feels like locking apt randomly to do it's update check D: Dec 06 13:40:29 FIQ|n900: havent set the update check grace period to forever? Dec 06 13:44:27 FIQ|n900: havent set the update check grace period to forever? Dec 06 13:44:36 is that even doable? o.o Dec 06 13:44:46 never used HAM since installation of rootsh lol Dec 06 13:44:51 * FIQ|n900 checks Dec 06 13:45:26 FIQ|n900: you can set it to ~one year Dec 06 13:52:48 only the auto-updates-check Dec 06 13:53:22 aiui FIQ|n900's problem is a bit different though Dec 06 13:54:14 well, on re-reading it- maybe not Dec 06 13:54:40 http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Disabling_Auto_Updates_Check Dec 06 13:54:45 FIQ|n900: ^^^ Dec 06 13:55:11 thanks Dec 06 13:55:40 Gah, i don't like hidden settings like that. :P Dec 06 13:55:42 but works for me Dec 06 13:56:21 http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201012/errord/SteamPeak_1.png Dec 06 13:57:03 MohammadAG, gonna get the playstation phone? Dec 06 13:57:16 crashanddie, pic? Dec 06 13:57:33 MohammadAG, http://www.tekgoblin.com/2010/12/04/playstation-phone-zeus-has-been-revealed-video/ Dec 06 13:58:07 tell me it runs maemo 6, please! Dec 06 13:58:17 nope Dec 06 13:58:18 android Dec 06 13:59:51 fuck it Dec 06 13:59:58 meh Dec 06 14:00:40 crashanddie: is that exabytes? Dec 06 14:00:52 exabytes? Dec 06 14:00:56 eta ? whatever Dec 06 14:01:09 wtf you talking about? Dec 06 14:01:14 the daily wtf Dec 06 14:01:19 MB/s Dec 06 14:01:27 oh Dec 06 14:02:14 yeah, looks like 2 exabytes per second Dec 06 14:03:18 well, that's all rather lame and not very unusual or exciting. Seen such things like 75% of cases where a dl-speed or copy-bandwidth is calculated Dec 06 14:04:14 not excited about it Dec 06 14:04:24 bandwith idling at 0 for several seconds, then going thru the roof on update of bytes-copied Dec 06 14:04:31 though the titles it'll get are probably good, knowing how song works Dec 06 14:07:24 I read that as steampunk on first glance. Made my smile for a second Dec 06 14:46:14 Is trolling documented somewhere? Dec 06 14:46:39 maemo in wikipedia? Dec 06 14:46:48 s/maemo/maybe/ Dec 06 14:46:49 timeless_mbp meant: maybe in wikipedia? Dec 06 14:46:59 (not my best day) Dec 06 14:48:07 MohammadAG: encyclopediadramatica? Dec 06 14:49:07 no .h file? damn Dec 06 14:49:18 RST38h, need a library :P Dec 06 14:53:57 MohammadAG: No, no, trolling is documented there, I mean Dec 06 15:22:53 hello Dec 06 15:23:02 it is possible to send sms from command-line ? Dec 06 15:23:26 (using terminal) Dec 06 15:26:12 chocolat_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/DBus/DBus_in_Freemantle Dec 06 15:26:36 hi, can anyone connect to the webpage "rtl2.kickerstar.de"? if I connect there only stands "Laden...". (it's a browsergame but thats no advertisement) Dec 06 15:26:44 with you n900* Dec 06 15:26:46 your* Dec 06 15:27:50 Corsac: thx, in fact I have ever seen this page and I was wondering about "pdu_array" variable. I don't where it come from Dec 06 15:27:55 lingling: downforjustme.com ? Dec 06 15:28:44 http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/5237662575/ A n900 Christmas card. Dec 06 15:31:43 chocolat_: no idea, I didn't even read it Dec 06 15:31:50 Corsac: ;) Dec 06 15:31:53 :( Dec 06 15:33:50 @timeless_mbp its just for me down -.-. it works on my computer but not with my mobile devise ... :( Dec 06 15:40:34 Hello, world! Dec 06 15:41:38 Does anyone knows how to remove all that's related to IR, GPS, FM receiver and BT? Dec 06 15:41:39 pitufio: hello, can you do an "hello world" using cli ? :) Dec 06 15:42:10 chocolat_: echo "Hello, world!" Dec 06 15:43:03 well done :) I forgot to precise "sending by sms" :) Dec 06 15:43:25 D: Dec 06 15:43:35 pitufio: Do you have a hot-air reflow station, a good soldering iron, a magnifying viewer, and steady hands? Dec 06 15:43:41 damn he's too smart! kill him! KILL HIM! Dec 06 15:44:39 SpeedEvil: hem... :) I mean, the device drivers, the related software and the init-script. Dec 06 15:44:49 why? Dec 06 15:45:11 You can't remove all related to GPS, as there is code to handle it inside the modem. Dec 06 15:45:11 SpeedEvil: because I don't want that :) Any other question? Dec 06 15:45:19 Which is not open. Dec 06 15:45:29 IR is emission only Dec 06 15:45:49 What's your aim? Dec 06 15:45:53 SpeedEvil: thanks for the interesting info Dec 06 15:46:16 SpeedEvil: using the device as 3G modem only and enforcing the non-usage of the listed devices Dec 06 15:46:51 pitufio: What do you mean by enforcing. Dec 06 15:46:52 SpeedEvil: (and as a side effect, increasing battery life) Dec 06 15:46:56 Someone can re-flash it. Dec 06 15:47:00 And you don't do that. Dec 06 15:47:18 Just don't use the listed things, and you get the same battery benefits. Dec 06 15:47:41 SpeedEvil: a lot of processes related to that are running by default... Dec 06 15:47:41 They would be no more off if you 'disable' them in some manner versus not using them Dec 06 15:47:46 Doesn't matter. Dec 06 15:47:53 They are not active. Dec 06 15:48:20 With the device otherwise idle, and connected to wifi, I get 5-6 days battery life. Dec 06 15:48:39 3G modem will - if used at all - reduce battery life to 5-6 hours at most Dec 06 15:49:00 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption Dec 06 15:49:20 SpeedEvil: eh... thanks for your explanation. My requirement is to remove all that or enforce the non-usage of all that Dec 06 15:49:28 What do you mean by enforce. Dec 06 15:49:48 You cannot remove GPS. Dec 06 15:50:06 SpeedEvil: I mean 'I want to be sure these devices are not used and will never be even by mistake' Dec 06 15:50:21 Mistake or intention? Dec 06 15:50:25 both Dec 06 15:50:37 Then it's impossible, as the device can be reflashed. Dec 06 15:50:38 remove the kernel module, if one exists Dec 06 15:50:44 ... Dec 06 15:51:02 If you hack on the init scripts, you can stop stuff being started. Dec 06 15:51:08 pitufio: buy a chineese edition Nokia, they ban GPS by default Dec 06 15:51:14 ... and wlan too Dec 06 15:51:24 But this may go away on over-the-air upgrades Dec 06 15:51:37 Necc: which means it's possible to do that :) Dec 06 15:51:52 pitufio: Reflashing 'fixes' it Dec 06 15:52:10 SpeedEvil: of course Dec 06 15:52:30 or tell me you are not paranoid thay the "big gowernment" will track you down and that's (or by similar reasons) you want to deactivate the gps? Dec 06 15:53:01 Necc: hehe... No I'm not. Dec 06 15:53:40 good... because opensource means: someone who dig into the code will figure this out in no-time Dec 06 15:53:48 haha Dec 06 15:54:15 then why not choosing to simply not use GPS? it is a free service anyway Dec 06 15:54:41 Necc: yes, sure. I just don't want to be able to use by mistake Dec 06 15:55:22 Necc: I'm trying to have 'communication ways' that I can trust Dec 06 15:55:46 then: settings - location - uncheck "GPS and "network positioning" Dec 06 15:56:12 Necc: My idea is to use the 3G modem w/ VoIP over IPSEC/SSL VPN on trusted servers Dec 06 15:56:14 You can still use it by mistake. Dec 06 15:56:28 voila you has no GPS until you "accidently" re-enable it again here Dec 06 15:56:34 uninstall maps, and all of the related. Dec 06 15:56:53 Necc: and to be coherent, disable all devices that I don't want to use Dec 06 15:57:06 ... Dec 06 15:57:15 better to build a custom kernel then Dec 06 15:57:19 Necc: and through which some 'leaks' could occurs Dec 06 15:57:32 Necc: If it's the better solution, I'll :) Dec 06 15:57:48 build a custom kernel, thats's 100 Dec 06 15:58:02 i hope GPS is loaded by kernel <.< Dec 06 15:58:07 It's not. Dec 06 15:58:14 GPS is an integral part of the modem. Dec 06 15:58:15 :| Dec 06 15:58:56 cool... so disabling GPS drivers mean no data packet too? Dec 06 16:01:17 Necc: The only way to keep GPS 100% disabled is to keep the cellmo off. Dec 06 16:02:10 or if the components are open source, then re-compile and load a GPS-free version? Dec 06 16:02:33 They aren't. Dec 06 16:02:37 or it is not possible again or too much work to do? Dec 06 16:02:45 The cellmo code is closed-source and signed - as I understand it. Dec 06 16:03:26 well then it is screwed Dec 06 16:04:46 or... install another OS witch do not has GPS? Dec 06 16:06:25 You cannot install any other code on the cellmo if it's not signed. Dec 06 16:09:21 ok... reasoning again: gelocalisation is made via GPS but also via the cellular network Dec 06 16:09:25 then... it is indeed screwed Dec 06 16:09:26 As I need the cellular network Dec 06 16:09:58 , I cannot say "I don't want gps" Dec 06 16:10:07 which resolve one problem :D Dec 06 16:10:38 You can do several things - recompile a kernel which does not include requisite modules. Dec 06 16:10:49 Edit the init scripts so those services are not started. Dec 06 16:11:03 yup. That's what I'll do Dec 06 16:11:10 Attempt to take down the services Dec 06 16:11:22 or format C: Dec 06 16:11:32 oh no sorry that's windows... Dec 06 16:11:39 not that the cell network couldnt locate you anyway, albeit not at the same accuracy Dec 06 16:11:58 sure, but it leaks your geographic position, anyway Dec 06 16:12:18 and as I need the cell network, I have to cope with that Dec 06 16:12:29 i still don't get why this "your loc is known" a problem Dec 06 16:14:19 Necc: I have to consider it as not a problem, as I have to use the cellular network, which leaks my position. Dec 06 16:14:46 Necc: but you can think of several real-life examples where it could be a problem Dec 06 16:16:43 don't use facecrap and google and never upload personal informations to the net. solved. Dec 06 16:17:01 >don't use the net Dec 06 16:17:34 Necc: you're missing some points there... :D Dec 06 16:18:52 ok then tell me an exact example. Dec 06 16:22:32 Necc: of what? positionning? Dec 06 16:22:58 Necc: let's think of a guy that want to communicate some information to wikileaks Dec 06 16:23:07 Can you trust Tor? Dec 06 16:23:11 Answer: no Dec 06 16:23:32 (large number of nodes are not maintained by nice people) Dec 06 16:23:45 But well, this is quite OT... Dec 06 16:25:23 Bye guys, has to eat. See you and thanks for your support Dec 06 16:26:03 use public netcaffe then... sigh Dec 06 16:26:05 anyway i'm off Dec 06 16:32:54 timeless_mbp, any ideas why I see my settings in the URL bar? (e.g use_full_screen_by_default=true) Dec 06 16:33:34 afaik we never really figured out the cause Dec 06 16:33:46 lol Dec 06 16:34:06 but basically there are two settings files Dec 06 16:34:14 and we merged them in your browser instance Dec 06 16:34:22 (typed history, settings) Dec 06 16:35:23 hahaha Dec 06 16:35:50 why? Dec 06 16:41:32 what do you mean Dec 06 16:41:40 why did we never figure out why it happened? Dec 06 16:42:32 which micro-usb cables work for the n900? Dec 06 16:43:47 corecode: eh? Dec 06 16:43:58 any cable with a micro-b on the end Dec 06 16:43:59 presumably any micro-usb cable... Dec 06 16:44:04 i bought some from ebay Dec 06 16:44:10 and they don't work for charging Dec 06 16:44:24 short D+/- Dec 06 16:44:32 eh? Dec 06 16:44:32 http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=micro-b+usb&_sacat=0&_odkw=micro-b&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 Dec 06 16:44:39 won't work for data though Dec 06 16:44:43 what do you mean they don't work for charging Dec 06 16:44:57 it first says "Charging" Dec 06 16:45:04 and some seconds later "Not charging" Dec 06 16:45:05 what is it plugged into? Dec 06 16:45:09 when you plug it into a host? Dec 06 16:45:13 yes Dec 06 16:45:22 tap on the item and select pc suite Dec 06 16:45:34 and which version of the system software are you using? Dec 06 16:45:55 1.3 Dec 06 16:46:11 now it appears to be chargin Dec 06 16:46:12 ah no Dec 06 16:46:19 ? Dec 06 16:46:22 what did you do? Dec 06 16:46:26 then it says "Not charging: Insufficient power" Dec 06 16:46:30 remember, we aren't spying on you Dec 06 16:46:38 and immediatelly after that "Charging" Dec 06 16:46:39 you have to *tell* us when you do things Dec 06 16:46:40 now it stopped Dec 06 16:46:50 i tapped pc suite Dec 06 16:47:02 that was off a dell monitor Dec 06 16:47:10 hrm Dec 06 16:47:21 from the dell itself Dec 06 16:47:27 it just says not charging Dec 06 16:47:39 hub Dec 06 16:47:40 what os is the host running? Dec 06 16:47:47 probably won't provide enough power Dec 06 16:48:03 ubuntu Dec 06 16:48:08 it works if i use the nokia cable Dec 06 16:48:58 Is this an unusually long, skinny, or cheap cable? Dec 06 16:49:35 (why would someone buy cables on ebay?) Dec 06 16:50:05 * SpeedEvil buys lots of stuff on ebay. Dec 06 16:56:18 SpeedEvil: no, it looks exactly like the nokia cable Dec 06 16:57:04 even has a fake nokia sticker Dec 06 16:57:04 :/ Dec 06 16:57:28 Do you own a DMM? Dec 06 16:57:32 yes Dec 06 16:58:26 i'm not sure how i could hook up to the pins tho Dec 06 16:58:48 i don't have a micro usb receptacle Dec 06 16:59:07 but i actually only want to buy a new cable Dec 06 17:07:54 * hue_ is trying to get some new repos working properly Dec 06 17:19:25 has anyone ever attempted to port thunderbird Dec 06 17:19:58 yes Dec 06 17:20:08 and? Dec 06 17:20:13 There was a thunderbird port that was, expectdly, too slow Dec 06 17:20:51 i'm still stuck with my micro-usb cable problem Dec 06 17:20:52 sigh Dec 06 17:21:13 RST38h, since you're here, which file of xchat's source is the channel view? Dec 06 17:21:30 why port something so big and resource-hungry as thunderbird when we have claws-mail? Dec 06 17:22:39 MohammadAG: Bad, bad answer to this good question Dec 06 17:23:40 MohammadAG: there is no single file. the whole thing is one huge custom gtk+ widget Dec 06 17:24:20 last time i used claws was in 2002 or so Dec 06 17:24:37 how does it work on maemo? Dec 06 17:24:45 Heh Dec 06 17:24:55 corecode: in most terrible way it could Dec 06 17:25:23 wtf Dec 06 17:25:27 impossible! Dec 06 17:25:40 hue_: thunderbird has plugins Dec 06 17:25:40 and probably a better set of backends Dec 06 17:25:40 and probably better support Dec 06 17:25:40 and probably a bigger userbase Dec 06 17:25:42 there must be some GtkScrolledView in there Dec 06 17:25:47 but i use modest :) Dec 06 17:26:19 Mohammad: afaik no Dec 06 17:26:22 modest doesn't save sent mail to imap :/ Dec 06 17:26:30 i'd like to add some sync job to it Dec 06 17:26:38 but it is a callback jungle Dec 06 17:26:48 timeless_mbp: claws-mail does so.. bigger userbase is useless for me like a user, support is only for official and not ports.. Dec 06 17:27:03 um Dec 06 17:27:10 larger communities can support ports too Dec 06 17:27:18 since usually problems aren't port specific Dec 06 17:27:27 but if you want to be idiotic and assume all problems are port specific Dec 06 17:27:29 be my guest Dec 06 17:28:35 no idea what "claws-mail does so" means btw Dec 06 17:28:42 it's quite likely it has some extensions Dec 06 17:28:48 RST38h, i kinda doubt he recreated scrolling Dec 06 17:29:10 MohammadAG: why not? Dec 06 17:29:12 Qt does Dec 06 17:29:15 every toolkit does :) Dec 06 17:29:19 claws-mail does so was reply for 1st message about plugins.. i'm not trying to be idiotic btw Dec 06 17:31:00 MohammadAG: the thing is custom drawn afaik Dec 06 17:31:02 hi Dec 06 17:31:15 MohammadAG: where he gets the position for the scrolling is a different question though Dec 06 17:31:38 Hehe, the Hypnotoad is leading the tournament for the best Sochi 2014 mascot Dec 06 17:31:57 does anyone know if it's possible to pay with vodafone callya prepaid cards in ovi store? Dec 06 17:34:37 i've asked nokia but they didn't answer my question Dec 06 17:35:02 * slonopotamus happily compiles on n900 Dec 06 17:35:18 slono: but slowly? Dec 06 17:40:30 RST38h: nope, why? 1.1ghz rocks Dec 06 17:40:59 RST38h: battery is a problem though :) Dec 06 17:43:10 slono: Swap would be the problem, I guess Dec 06 17:43:18 no matter what the cpu speed is Dec 06 17:43:53 RST38h: it doesn't touch it :/ Dec 06 17:44:01 gcc? Dec 06 17:44:08 yep Dec 06 17:44:12 compiling C Dec 06 17:45:47 RST38h: had to hack around with symlinks to avoid running out of space in rootfs :) Dec 06 17:45:54 slono: ehhehehe Dec 06 17:46:02 slono: /usr/include and/usr/lib on opt? Dec 06 17:47:07 not whole /usr/lib (i'm not sure maemo will survive that), just biggies from /usr/lib, /usr/share and whole /usr/include Dec 06 17:47:23 Hmm, ok, CepiPerez has got pissed off as well, at the end Dec 06 17:47:29 what's the difference between the ovi store and the ovi repository in application manager? Dec 06 17:47:49 frank__: one's a ui which in theory unlocks stuff for the other? Dec 06 17:47:53 Store is what sells you stuff Dec 06 17:48:00 Repository is where the stuff is stored Dec 06 17:48:17 frank__: you need to pay in former one :) Dec 06 17:48:40 there seems to be free applications in the store that aren't present in app manager though? Dec 06 17:49:09 And the Instinctiv people are pissed off as well. Dec 06 17:49:36 Are there any developers who are NOT pissed off at Nokia and Maemo by now??? Dec 06 17:50:14 frank__: have you "bought" them? Dec 06 17:50:27 nope Dec 06 17:50:31 buy one Dec 06 17:50:39 in theory it'd "appear" Dec 06 17:50:44 frank__, you need to enable red pill mode Dec 06 17:50:44 The app manager will artifically block browsing of theovi repository Dec 06 17:50:57 So, no, none of Ovi apps will appear there Dec 06 17:51:14 RST38h: oh, we're that stupid? Dec 06 17:51:15 wow Dec 06 17:51:41 hmmm Dec 06 17:51:51 RST38h: nokia has a number of contractors who were paid to work on maemo Dec 06 17:52:06 i'd imagine that to some extent the contractors were quite happy to take money from nokia for maemo :) Dec 06 17:52:14 so one purchases or downloads from the ovi store, and app manager uses the repository to keep them updated? Dec 06 17:52:17 timeless: Yes, you are THAT stupid,sorry Dec 06 17:52:34 timeless: And don't forget that you are basicvally going to let Harmattan device hang in vacuum Dec 06 17:52:50 ? Dec 06 17:53:01 (unless your marketing and devrelations make some incredible samersault between now and Harmattan release date) Dec 06 17:53:42 timeless: Harmattan is technically *not* Meego. It is basically Maemo, *but* Nokia does its best to discourage development for Maemo. Dec 06 17:53:47 in theory we're going to actually _spend_ money on marketing this time around Dec 06 17:54:24 Will have to spend it on hiring snakes and pole dancers to work for your developers relations Dec 06 17:54:43 RST38h: there was a guy whose writeup of meego conf sounds roughly like that :) Dec 06 17:54:56 Just to flex your way out of the current clusterfuck Dec 06 17:58:57 nah, we're scheduling a new one of those Dec 06 17:59:02 the current one isn't too important Dec 06 18:00:12 is there any indications that Harmattan will even see the light of day? Dec 06 18:00:17 s/is/are Dec 06 18:00:19 Scheduling a new clusterfuck? Dec 06 18:00:25 Ok, cool Dec 06 18:00:27 yes! Dec 06 18:00:29 * RST38h gets some popcorn Dec 06 18:00:57 be sure to order long lasting :) Dec 06 18:01:04 Renaming Harmattan to AmigaOS5 may do the trick Dec 06 18:01:17 iirc AmigaOS5 is already taken Dec 06 18:01:21 we might try 6 :) Dec 06 18:01:25 Ok. AmigaOS6. Dec 06 18:02:38 RST38h: have you had time to watch all *6* episodes of Meego (TV show) Dec 06 18:04:28 (a regular season of american tv programming has 13 episodes) Dec 06 18:05:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl0yyUFOyOU Dec 06 18:06:11 RST38h, I added kinetic scrolling to the userlist Dec 06 18:06:13 was piss easy :P Dec 06 18:06:37 timeless: I prefer this interpretation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-go Dec 06 18:06:45 Mohammad: Oh really???? Dec 06 18:06:52 * RST38h tried that for weeks, lazily though Dec 06 18:10:08 Leakypug Dec 06 18:11:10 RST38h, http://i54.tinypic.com/a48swo.jpg Dec 06 18:11:14 RST38h: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH01tQaR8ak&NR=1 is pretty awful Dec 06 18:11:18 i like it as an explanation Dec 06 18:11:53 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 06 18:12:03 the userlist is a disaster Dec 06 18:13:05 Mohammad: get rid of the scrollbar,who cares, once you have proper scrolling =) Dec 06 18:13:17 default settings do not have the userlist, so no problem Dec 06 18:16:41 hrm, Dec 06 18:16:55 Meego Pilot Episode part 1 of 3 v. Viva Rock Vegas Dec 06 18:16:57 Meego loses Dec 06 18:17:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL_8CmSJzvk&feature=related Dec 06 18:17:15 Mohammad: Wait. It is only for the *userlist* Dec 06 18:17:21 Im looking into updates my N900 with the pr1.2 update and was wondering whats the easiest way of doing so Dec 06 18:17:40 Mohammad: Userlist is trivial, but kinda useless. How about adding it to the main view? =) Dec 06 18:19:05 RST38h, working on it :P Dec 06 18:20:57 RST38h: Oh another Z80 fanatic. C9 Dec 06 18:23:20 so how do i know whether a cable is original nokia or not Dec 06 18:23:24 on amazon or ebay Dec 06 18:24:26 just buy it from Nokia Dec 06 18:25:23 does it matter? Dec 06 18:25:42 RST38h: i just want one that works Dec 06 18:25:49 MohammadAG: how? Dec 06 18:25:56 99% of them do Dec 06 18:26:06 well, then i got 2 which are in the 1% Dec 06 18:26:24 and if you read reviews on amazon, plenty of them say that the cable doesn't charge Dec 06 18:26:46 You want a generic USB-to-micro-USB cable. Dec 06 18:26:51 yes, yes Dec 06 18:26:52 RadioShack sells them. Dec 06 18:26:54 one that works Dec 06 18:27:03 RadioShack sells ones that work Dec 06 18:27:04 i'm not in the US Dec 06 18:27:07 ok Dec 06 18:27:21 Where are you> Dec 06 18:27:29 and honestly, i don't want to shell out $20 for a non-original cable Dec 06 18:27:36 if i can even find one Dec 06 18:27:45 That depends on where you are. Dec 06 18:27:50 i searched for one several months ago, and the stores didn't have them Dec 06 18:27:56 that was in germany tho Dec 06 18:28:10 Hi Dec 06 18:28:15 Any generic photography kiosk around these parts of the world will sell you one for $5..$10 Dec 06 18:28:18 ze germans dont have such a thing? Dec 06 18:28:34 Macer: i was surprised as well Dec 06 18:28:43 corecode:Mediamarkt. Dec 06 18:28:57 (if you can stand garish purple colors) Dec 06 18:29:12 back then the mediamarkt didn't have it :/ Dec 06 18:29:15 oh well Dec 06 18:29:42 Ok. Have you got any cell phone places? Dec 06 18:29:45 wow Dec 06 18:29:50 * timeless_mbp likes viva rock vegas Dec 06 18:30:04 yea, i'm telling you: they want $20 for a cable Dec 06 18:30:08 Like...well... Tele2 or TMobile, or some generic shack selling phone accessories? Dec 06 18:31:17 corecode: Ok, the real cable will be in Nokia plastic packaging (with paper back), the microUSB side will be thick multi-part plug with "Nokia" engraved on one side Dec 06 18:31:33 RST38h: yea, i know Dec 06 18:31:42 same for the fake ones i received :/ Dec 06 18:31:48 Mhm Dec 06 18:32:01 Ok. Have you ever considered that the problem is NOT the cable??? Dec 06 18:32:08 i just wonder why this cable doesn't charge Dec 06 18:32:13 yes, i considered that Dec 06 18:32:24 Good. Start from this thought. Dec 06 18:32:26 but everything being the same, the nokia cable will charge Dec 06 18:32:32 but the fake one won't Dec 06 18:32:40 Your cables, do they allow your N900 communicate with the computer? Dec 06 18:32:44 yes Dec 06 18:33:28 Good. When N900 asks you to establish connection and you *cancel* the dialog (by clicking outside) does the phone begin showing charging status? Dec 06 18:33:43 yes, for maybe 1-10 seconds Dec 06 18:33:49 then shows "Not charging" Dec 06 18:33:56 or "Not charging. Insufficient power" Dec 06 18:34:03 depending on the port i hook it up to Dec 06 18:34:43 ahhaha Dec 06 18:34:55 fun, i know. Dec 06 18:35:03 Good. Are you able to charge any other USB device by plugging it into the same USB port? Dec 06 18:35:06 I bet on a nice simple answer. Dec 06 18:35:11 Yep Dec 06 18:35:13 A shitty high-resistance cable. Dec 06 18:35:23 SpeedEvil: cute Dec 06 18:35:27 RST38h: i don't have other micro-usb cables Dec 06 18:35:30 Nah, cables are probably the last to blame for this crap Dec 06 18:35:31 SpeedEvil: that's my guess too Dec 06 18:35:34 Which is borderline between not charging, and charging. Dec 06 18:35:53 corecode: Ok. Could you do this experiment Dec 06 18:35:54 And theadditional resistance from the front cables does different stuff Dec 06 18:36:19 corecode: Find some *other* computer with USB ports, preferably one which is *known* to charge USB devices successfully Dec 06 18:36:22 RST38h, I see what you mean, it's an asshole (chanlist) Dec 06 18:36:37 corecode: Try connecting N900 to that computer, see if it charges Dec 06 18:36:38 MohammadAG: xchat's ui is a disaster :) Dec 06 18:36:42 RST38h: i have the same problem with two machines Dec 06 18:36:51 RST38h: and 2 more hubs Dec 06 18:36:52 Cool, pyside-1.0 beta .. Dec 06 18:37:00 Mohammad: chanlist is actually going to be easy, it is the main text view that is a freaking disaster Dec 06 18:37:02 corecode: hubs will generally *not* work Dec 06 18:37:03 RST38h: nokia cable = works, fake cable = doesn't Dec 06 18:37:07 unless they're powered Dec 06 18:37:10 corecode: Hmm, ok Dec 06 18:37:12 timeless_mbp: self-powered hubs won't work? Dec 06 18:37:13 and your average hub isn't Dec 06 18:37:30 mine are Dec 06 18:38:06 corecode: weird shit. Dec 06 18:38:13 yea Dec 06 18:38:14 right Dec 06 18:38:51 SpeedEvil: you think the charge controller on the n900 checks the voltage levels and then stops drawing power when it detects that the drop is too large? Dec 06 18:38:55 corecode: Got any friends or relatives with Nokia 5800 or similar phones? They all come with the same cables Dec 06 18:39:13 ah i could ask my office mate Dec 06 18:39:27 * RST38h hardly believes one can screw up usb cable to the point of having too much resistance (!) to charge stuff Dec 06 18:39:27 he got an htc or so Dec 06 18:39:53 corecode: try them, see if your friends are willing to part with them Dec 06 18:40:28 otherwise, you have only got a choice between cell phone outlet, digitsl photography store, and a trip to neighboring east-european country Dec 06 18:42:10 Nokia discouraging app developers to develop for maemo, what a shame!!, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=890743&postcount=822 Dec 06 18:42:37 eh... Dec 06 18:42:43 wow :( Dec 06 18:42:45 that's.... no big surprise Dec 06 18:42:50 as I said Dec 06 18:44:32 so whats the deal with free apps in the ovi store anyway. Is Nokia paying the development? Dec 06 18:46:58 some apps have non free versions Dec 06 18:47:13 iirc angry birds has a free base and a $ expansion Dec 06 18:57:58 afaik everything in Ovi is non-free Dec 06 18:58:39 luke-jr: what about fennec Dec 06 18:58:57 nfc Dec 06 18:59:07 that's not in the normal app mgr? Dec 06 19:15:37 what the fuck is nokia smoking exactly? it seems to be working nice Dec 06 19:17:38 something laced, apparently Dec 06 19:18:20 MohammadAG: ? Dec 06 19:18:57 hm, i notice mixed results with people synchronising their n900 with google through google exchange sync Dec 06 19:19:35 anyone has experience with it? Dec 06 19:19:59 we used to use nuevasync Dec 06 19:22:47 MohammadAG, makes sense for commercial devs to not invest time in a dead platform. Dec 06 19:23:07 It's just too bad Nokia never gives their existing customers a reasonable migration path. Dec 06 19:27:42 Hmm, Instinctiv's Peter does notappearto be very excitedabout Meego either =( Dec 06 19:28:20 RST38h: initially most vendors only give big connections to a small set of groups Dec 06 19:28:39 lower tiers tend to get smaller connections Dec 06 19:28:51 but it is supposed to be "open"! :) Dec 06 19:29:13 ignoring nokia's special skills, its activity wrt future hardware platforms isn't unusual Dec 06 19:29:23 will meego support some scripting? Dec 06 19:29:26 RST38h: nokia has never claimed to produce open hardware Dec 06 19:29:40 corecode: python or javascript via webkit... Dec 06 19:29:45 * timeless_mbp suspects Dec 06 19:29:52 i'm always appaled by having to write C code/plugins for maemo stuff Dec 06 19:29:55 note that 'support' is a strange word Dec 06 19:29:56 But it [Meego] is cross-platform! Dec 06 19:29:57 for example: libsharing Dec 06 19:30:11 i'd like to post to imgur Dec 06 19:30:18 I.e. once Instinctiv writes it for Meego,it is supposed to work on every Meego! Dec 06 19:30:18 but writing everything in C... Dec 06 19:30:20 corecode: most os's don't actually have scripts as tierd 1 Dec 06 19:30:22 beuh Dec 06 19:30:25 s/tierd/tier/ Dec 06 19:30:26 timeless_mbp meant: corecode: most os's don't actually have scripts as tier 1 Dec 06 19:30:34 infobot: really? Dec 06 19:30:35 REALLY! Dec 06 19:30:40 infobot: ok. Dec 06 19:30:57 RST38h: one platform has a 2x2 display Dec 06 19:31:04 and another has a 10000000x100000 display Dec 06 19:31:17 and instinctiv doesn't support displays smaller than 500000x500000 Dec 06 19:31:25 then it won't work on the 2x2 display Dec 06 19:31:40 * RST38h claims his stuff will work on both displays Dec 06 19:31:42 cross platform doesn't negate the need for testing Dec 06 19:31:56 RST38h: i take it none of your stuff is graphical? :) Dec 06 19:31:58 10000000x100000 will be kinda slow, indeed Dec 06 19:32:04 All my stuff is graphical Dec 06 19:32:15 * timeless_mbp can't imagine anything working on a 2x2 display :) Dec 06 19:32:37 "Last week we spoke with Nokia. We were actively discouraged from developing for Maemo any further" Dec 06 19:32:41 This works on Windows, Linux, Symbian, Maemo, andMSDOS: http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/ Dec 06 19:32:48 RST38h: until a product is launched, technical specs for it are generally considered secrets Dec 06 19:32:55 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=890743&postcount=822 Dec 06 19:33:04 It *will* work on2x2 display, although not guaranteed to be usable Dec 06 19:33:18 GAN900, it's not dead as long as 1) MeeGo is shit, 2) there is no alternative Dec 06 19:33:42 * RST38h can guess Meego device's tech specs like a freaking oracle Dec 06 19:33:47 MohammadAG: qgil is on, you can pester him ;) Dec 06 19:33:53 800x480 display, either 16bpp or 24bpp Dec 06 19:34:09 RST38h: fwiw the specs have actually changed w/in the last couple of weeks Dec 06 19:34:16 *possibly* 842x480 or 1024x768 display (will be tablet then) Dec 06 19:34:24 These specs will not. Dec 06 19:34:34 RST38h: seriously Dec 06 19:34:42 There are both common-sense and technicalreasons for that Dec 06 19:34:51 RST38h: this is nokia we're talking about Dec 06 19:34:56 where does common-sense come in? Dec 06 19:34:59 1) There is a limited number of sources for these displays, nokia or not Dec 06 19:35:16 RST38h: again, we try to be stupid Dec 06 19:35:22 we had a great plan to be stupid Dec 06 19:35:28 2) 2weeks before release, mechanics are already fixed, cannot change display all that much Dec 06 19:35:41 RST38h: we've also changed mechanics Dec 06 19:35:47 so please don't play oracle Dec 06 19:35:53 But not to accomodate so much bigger display Dec 06 19:35:54 you're family quite impressively Dec 06 19:36:07 oh, you got me, we won't ship a 100000000x100000000 display Dec 06 19:36:12 See? Dec 06 19:36:20 Won't even ship 1600x1200, I am sure Dec 06 19:36:25 * timeless_mbp thinks 2x2 is still on the table Dec 06 19:36:29 Won'tship 320x240 either Dec 06 19:36:48 aww Dec 06 19:37:00 it'd be fun to run on older symbian style hardware :) Dec 06 19:37:11 maemo was running on the n95... Dec 06 19:37:26 By the way, your hardware follies aside, there is an example of a platform where you cannot expect *any* fixed display size at *any* particular device. Guess which one. Dec 06 19:37:32 which was 320x240 Dec 06 19:37:45 Original Symbian was 176x208. Dec 06 19:37:54 Or the double of that (352x416) Dec 06 19:38:18 320x240 is a WinMo size, not hardcore oldskool Symbian Dec 06 19:38:43 sure Dec 06 19:38:51 but realistically we aren't going to run on oldskool Dec 06 19:39:01 but hypothetically outdated.... Dec 06 19:39:07 But anyways, willing to guess that really bad, evil platform?No fixed screen size? Dec 06 19:39:44 linux Dec 06 19:39:46 windows Dec 06 19:39:53 any desktop platform Dec 06 19:39:54 java ME Dec 06 19:40:31 Windows. Dec 06 19:40:50 And yes, my apps can handle that too, to a certain degree. Dec 06 19:41:20 if somebody ties app to specific resolution he's braindead Dec 06 19:41:34 jacekowski: have you ever met nokia before? Dec 06 19:41:36 app should scale to whatever resolution is avaliable Dec 06 19:41:42 can i interest you in Ovi Suite? Dec 06 19:41:56 ovi suite is braindead Dec 06 19:42:07 well, yes, there is that Dec 06 19:42:11 but it's also fixed resolution Dec 06 19:42:22 and doesn't really fit on my Ideapad w/ taskbar on right :) Dec 06 19:42:38 because it's an example of poor design Dec 06 19:42:54 * RST38h suggests a dead horse instead, those tend to be more interesting than Ovi Suite Dec 06 19:43:06 on desktop you should work on 640x480 Dec 06 19:43:17 as minimum resolution you can get Dec 06 19:43:25 jacekowski: actually Dec 06 19:43:25 Anyway, it does not matter how broken Nokia UIs are. Third parties do not have to repeat the same mistakes Dec 06 19:43:36 desktops in portrait are shorter :) Dec 06 19:43:39 c.f. ideapad Dec 06 19:43:55 portrait is braindead Dec 06 19:44:02 and you can rotate it Dec 06 19:44:39 wmarone, I'd rather not Dec 06 19:47:08 Meanwhile, Google opens up its eBook shop/reader site Dec 06 19:47:14 Anyone knows the mobile URL for that? Dec 06 19:49:13 hi, a question: when i try to delete flashblock with "apt-get remove flashblock" it says "E. Couldn't find package flashblock"... what do I wrong? Dec 06 19:49:36 lingling: dpkg -l *flashblock* ? Dec 06 19:50:17 |cat Dec 06 19:50:29 (since your screen will probably trigger truncation...) Dec 06 19:50:41 no packages found matching... Dec 06 19:51:00 how did you install it? Dec 06 19:51:02 dpkg -l | grep flashblock Dec 06 19:51:10 lingling: ^ Dec 06 19:51:11 was this into fennec? Dec 06 19:51:22 if so, you probably just use its addons manager... Dec 06 19:51:26 is there an easy way to type "|"? Dec 06 19:51:50 on my keyboard it's blue-GBP Dec 06 19:51:59 since someone helpfully remapped GBP as PIPE :) Dec 06 19:52:42 how? Dec 06 19:53:12 anyway, the hard way is blue-SYM Dec 06 19:53:18 iirc it's there Dec 06 19:53:20 yea Dec 06 19:53:25 or you can collapse the keyboard and use the vkb Dec 06 19:53:30 that's not as easy Dec 06 19:53:37 how did you remap? Dec 06 19:53:43 i have the hebrew key layout installd Dec 06 19:53:52 and afaiu that's what's changing my layout Dec 06 19:53:58 aha Dec 06 19:53:59 (but i'm not really certain) Dec 06 19:54:15 :/ Dec 06 19:54:16 you lose blue-SYM (only downside) Dec 06 19:54:19 try it Dec 06 19:54:31 eh what? Dec 06 19:58:36 the layout? Dec 06 20:04:01 moin Dec 06 20:25:39 Has anyone tried Sygic? Dec 06 20:30:21 yes Dec 06 20:30:22 it's crap Dec 06 20:30:27 but it's only option Dec 06 20:31:03 wasn't there an opened source mapping app? Dec 06 20:31:50 timeless_mbp: there are but they are not standalone Dec 06 20:32:10 "standalone"? Dec 06 20:32:20 If Data plans in the US were not so horrible,… it would make sense to use a non-standalone application Dec 06 20:32:31 wayfinder is the one i'm thinking of Dec 06 20:32:58 timeless_mbp: sygic gives you all the maps,… so you only have to use GPS and no net connection Dec 06 20:33:08 timeless_mbp: that is the definition of "standalone" in this case Dec 06 20:33:43 wayfinder doesn't let you do that? Dec 06 20:35:23 any gps-using app on the n900 will have ot access the networkto get positioning assistance and hence cannot be called fully standalone Dec 06 20:35:47 RST38h: sygic doesn't need network access. Dec 06 20:36:09 it does, to get the position Dec 06 20:36:33 moo RST38h Dec 06 20:36:44 reHI javispedro Dec 06 20:37:02 You can deny internet access and wait a bit longer :-) Dec 06 20:37:03 a sane N900 can cold start without any connectivity, or at least my N900 can :) Dec 06 20:37:16 RST38h: http://wiki.maemo.org/Navigation_Tools#Stand-alone << then this is wrong? Dec 06 20:39:43 Robert X. Cringley warns WikiLeaks could launch Web War III! Dec 06 20:40:50 * javispedro builds home facebook bunker Dec 06 20:41:34 what if the world governments take down wikileaks and the key to the encrypted file was wrong? Dec 06 20:42:14 GPS Fix, without network access, in 2 minutes 15 seconds, indoors :-) Dec 06 20:42:32 incredible Dec 06 20:42:45 ShadowJK: I concur (reproduced on ireland, where data was a nogo) Dec 06 20:42:50 *or* the Pentagon is keeping way more GPS sats than necessary above .FI Dec 06 20:43:03 haha Dec 06 20:43:05 ShadowJK: I am sure they are doing it to track *you*!!! =) Dec 06 20:43:34 5-10 minutes to a fix here Dec 06 20:43:34 RST38h, gps sats arent geostationary... :) Dec 06 20:43:40 it's seeing: 15%, 80%, 70%, 15%, 100%, 48% Dec 06 20:43:48 (gpsjinni) Dec 06 20:44:10 I mean, if I had constant "3G" connection where ever I travelled and an unlimited plan only cost 15€ here in the US, then I wouldn't mind having network always on when needing the GPS. Dec 06 20:44:28 we have got that Dec 06 20:44:56 Their new constellation 2010 or was it constellation 2011 is going to reduce coverage over .fi Dec 06 20:44:58 in the US? there is not consistent reliable network connection here Dec 06 20:45:11 3g across the country is a joke. Dec 06 20:45:30 we all know that by now Dec 06 20:46:02 will you now complain about greedy telcos and their 2-year indenture plans? Dec 06 20:46:25 RST38h: no 2 year plan here (: Dec 06 20:46:57 New USA n900 owner here: I d/led the Ovi Mobile Maps 10, and have seen all kinds of conflicting info about downloading the actual maps? What's the most current info? Dec 06 20:47:19 "Ovi Maps 10"? Prepare to be disappointed. Dec 06 20:47:54 timeless_mbp: thanks for the note about wayfinder. Dec 06 20:47:56 haha Dec 06 20:47:56 he probably means Sygic Dec 06 20:48:08 hope so. Dec 06 20:48:16 ovimaps sucks in general... google maps was far superior imo Dec 06 20:48:19 yep, Sygic -- whats the deal on that? Dec 06 20:48:21 When I bought sygic they gave me the map download link too Dec 06 20:48:52 google nav is the best i've used so far minus an actual gps Dec 06 20:49:07 google's maps are a bit incomplete around here :/ Dec 06 20:49:14 ShadowJK: where are you? Dec 06 20:49:31 and ovi maps is overcomplete, it once suggested I should walk across the river on a tree that had fallen over the river :D Dec 06 20:49:42 last week google maps routing suggested a street for me that doesn't exist at all Dec 06 20:49:48 timeless_mbp, .fi.. Dec 06 20:49:56 haha, ah well, I own a separate GPS, was just curious. I'd still like to try it out tho. Dec 06 20:50:09 ShadowJK: um, you've got "forest", and "lake" Dec 06 20:50:12 stay off both Dec 06 20:50:13 :) Dec 06 20:50:24 so you have to pay for Sygic? I didn't do that Dec 06 20:50:30 (and perhaps I won't) Dec 06 20:50:32 kasansweat, you probably don't get the maps then? Dec 06 20:50:53 Correct, app and no maps Dec 06 20:52:26 timeless_mbp, hm, I wonder if ovi maps knows about the part of the local river that's rockbed and shallow enough certain times of year to cross by vehicle :-) Dec 06 20:52:32 * javispedro notes that trying to use a epson printer with cups BEFORE installing gutenprint results in silent failure. No error message on logs even with verbose log level. Dec 06 20:52:33 (and roads leading up to both sides) Dec 06 20:52:35 So, as I understand it -- you *do* have to pay for Sygic maps -- and they're not that good? Dec 06 20:52:57 ShadowJK: grr Dec 06 20:53:51 I don't remember which of the two dataproviders sygic uses for maemo SMM10.. Dec 06 20:54:59 they shop both providers? wow Dec 06 20:55:02 too bad there isn't Ovi Suite for linux ): I mean, yeah one can use virtualization but it isn't native. Dec 06 20:55:51 javispedro, iirc they use the one for everything except maemo smm, and the other for every other version Dec 06 20:56:16 * javispedro lols at the "special customer treatment" for maemo users, as evidenced by http://www.sygic.com/index.php/en/compatible-devices.html Dec 06 20:56:35 search for the n900 foot note Dec 06 20:56:45 haha javispedro Dec 06 20:57:50 hum... €50 for europe? doesn't sound awful. Dec 06 20:58:08 Yeah, tomtom wanted €50 just for Scandinavia, iirc :/ Dec 06 20:58:22 * javispedro paid more for navicore.... in time to get 2008 upgrade and witness the slow death of wayfinder Dec 06 20:58:27 i paid £100 for tomtom with full eu map Dec 06 20:58:51 im trying to get this http://fuuko.libferris.com/maemo/n900/repository/ running under my n900. well my software wont accept the path of it Dec 06 20:58:54 Now Playing: Katy Perry - Teenage Dream Dec 06 20:59:15 javispedro: 20€ for north america Dec 06 20:59:22 but tries to add default "components" and "distribution values which are missing Dec 06 20:59:47 ke^: ./ should work Dec 06 20:59:55 lets see Dec 06 21:00:06 distribution value ./ ? Dec 06 21:00:29 yes Dec 06 21:00:52 yep it worked. ty Dec 06 21:01:07 erstazi: at least in .es I'm already used to being ripped off by expensive cartography Dec 06 21:01:49 yuck Dec 06 21:02:00 ha, the n900 foot note says contact them? what do you think they tell people? weird Dec 06 21:02:40 * javispedro remembers the first metroguide... it did not even have 100% of major roads, but that did not stop garmin from applying their usual prohibitive price (+$100) Dec 06 21:03:08 They brought out a new version, and emailed upgrade instructions to everyone. However, people seem to not be able to read emails, and where whining they didn't get upgrade instructions. I suspect it has something to do with that Dec 06 21:04:21 http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM Dec 06 21:05:19 The Ovi Store version is more castrated, Ovi didn't allow fullscreen and many other features :-) Dec 06 21:05:43 ah, Nokia applying their usual suicidal marketing strategies Dec 06 21:05:43 Like multitasking :D Dec 06 21:06:27 javispedro: looks like freaking sabotage Dec 06 21:07:18 Sygic Maps + FMTX is pretty awesome. The music from media player pauses and sygic's voice guide tells you to make a turn, and then the music resumes :) Dec 06 21:07:20 insanely long approval times -- check. stupid policies -- check. Dec 06 21:07:49 ShadowJK: thank libplayback ;) Dec 06 21:08:10 Well, people don't know about ctrl-backspace, and then there's probably a policy forbidding apps from using the gps in the background Dec 06 21:08:31 Unfortunately there's no policy against that shake-and-surf thing that eats batteries for lunch Dec 06 21:10:06 I doubt that has anything to do with fmtx Dec 06 21:10:20 That's sygic playing nice with mafw I'd imagine. Dec 06 21:10:27 or libplayback Dec 06 21:12:23 aha Dec 06 21:12:26 http://www.sygic.com/index.php/en/maps.html Dec 06 21:12:34 maemo - navteq; rest - teleatlas Dec 06 21:13:05 :-) Dec 06 21:13:07 interesting Dec 06 21:13:11 considering Navteq is the Nokia-owned one, I wonder if this means they get their source data at a reduced rate Dec 06 21:13:45 ... some kind of discount for being the only routing app for maemo. Dec 06 21:13:49 Well.. Nokia itself said it itself gets no preferrential treatment from navteq (yeah right lol) Dec 06 21:14:34 might explain the €50 price. Dec 06 21:14:48 or not, as iphone is $75 which is pretty similar Dec 06 21:15:56 btw, their server (sygic.com) is clearly missing mod_rewrite... fugly urls. Dec 06 21:16:00 if you own sygic, does it have public transit planning? Dec 06 21:16:58 chx: additional €19 per country, seemingly Dec 06 21:17:20 javispedro: where do you see that Dec 06 21:17:30 http://www.sygic.com/index.php/en/how-to-buy.html, search for "Real-Time Traffic" Dec 06 21:17:34 javispedro: I emailed sygic and they have answered the most useless way Dec 06 21:17:44 real time traffic is for cars Dec 06 21:17:45 ah Dec 06 21:17:50 that's not public transit Dec 06 21:17:56 sorry misread your question Dec 06 21:17:58 =) Dec 06 21:18:18 i am perfectly willing to shell out , if necessary, hundreds of dollars for any gizmo that gives me offline public transit planning Dec 06 21:18:30 you tried Métro under garnetVM? Dec 06 21:18:34 gizmo or software Dec 06 21:18:43 javispedro: url? Dec 06 21:18:52 http://www.nanika.net/metro/ Dec 06 21:18:54 http://www.nanika.net/metro/ this? Dec 06 21:19:01 it is actually the 2th reason I keep Garnet around... Dec 06 21:19:04 *nd Dec 06 21:19:33 it does not integrate with a gps at all, though Dec 06 21:20:33 http://www.nanika.net/metro/ Dec 06 21:20:35 opsie Dec 06 21:20:44 the way it reads, you need to enter stations? Dec 06 21:20:51 and yeah no gps Dec 06 21:20:56 yep Dec 06 21:21:16 what i would die for is to be able to click " I am here. I want to go address X. Tell me how. " Dec 06 21:21:34 that's what i call a public transit route planner :) Dec 06 21:21:49 it's a hybrid one then Dec 06 21:22:40 with Métro you're able t say "I'm on station X; I'd like to go station Y.". It will use whichever line is shortest. Dec 06 21:22:58 it also has POIs (attached to stations) so it works well for tourism Dec 06 21:23:11 hrm, been a time since i researched it, apparently http://www.garmin.com/garmin/cms/us/maps/cityxplorer this feature is now available on a few garmin devices Dec 06 21:23:29 * chx dials santa Dec 06 21:25:32 €10 PER CITY?? Dec 06 21:25:39 garmin indeed. Dec 06 21:25:58 hm and this series is usb powered Dec 06 21:26:14 i have a 10000 mah battery for that already Dec 06 21:26:25 for sure it powers the device for a "few" extra hours. Dec 06 21:26:44 wait, 10 EUR per city????? Dec 06 21:26:48 holy batman Dec 06 21:27:14 'cos the 1200 is a mere $90 new Dec 06 21:27:42 XChat for Windows looks like shit Dec 06 21:30:33 So the sygic maps still must be paid for in the US? Dec 06 21:31:01 yes. Dec 06 21:31:17 http://www.sygic.com/index.php/en/how-to-buy.html Dec 06 21:33:06 littlebit too expensive Dec 06 21:33:12 some price down and id buy Dec 06 21:33:14 €20 expensive? Dec 06 21:33:21 reads 40 € Dec 06 21:33:28 Well, yeah, probably not gonna happen since I have a tomtom already. Dec 06 21:33:34 oh nordics is 20 Dec 06 21:33:34 thanks for the info Dec 06 21:33:40 whole europe is 40 Dec 06 21:33:42 ya Dec 06 21:33:46 i think about it Dec 06 21:33:53 single country (or US) is €20 Dec 06 21:34:11 cause the interface allready seems very fast. Dec 06 21:37:30 is it me, or is the Nexus S a bit underpowered? Dec 06 21:37:48 isn't it just a repackaged galaxy s (at least according to slashdot)? Dec 06 21:38:33 S sounds like a budget model anyway Dec 06 21:39:46 is it possible to prevent a connection pop up when trying to open a connection? i tried setting the ConnectInBackground property on QtNetworkSession but it failed. any ideas? Dec 06 21:52:21 MohammadAG, especially since Qualcomm's 1GHz is a little weak. Dec 06 21:53:13 thought it was a cortex A8, at least that's what enagadget said Dec 06 21:53:38 Yeah, but only sort of. Dec 06 22:24:28 who's used HildonPannableArea before? Dec 06 22:24:46 grr Dec 06 22:25:05 sp3000: what would cause '[windows explorer] unzip' to fail to run to completion? :( Dec 06 22:25:19 http://i55.tinypic.com/2wm0uww.jpg is stuck to the first one, what's the signal emitted by the list when a list item is clicked? Dec 06 22:35:50 * MohammadAG sighs at http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=891014&postcount=35 Dec 06 22:38:03 * timeless_mbp curses Dec 06 22:38:09 something is *eating* my directories Dec 06 22:38:25 om nom nom Dec 06 22:38:27 timeless_mbp: you forget to lunch again ! Dec 06 22:38:57 marmoute: i haven't lit candles, which i should do nowish Dec 06 22:39:07 but yeah, today was a holiday so i skipped the lunch thing Dec 06 22:39:17 finnish independence day Dec 06 22:39:22 * timeless_mbp frowns Dec 06 22:39:36 ok, so what the heck would be able to eat my directories? Dec 06 22:39:50 Hungry moos Dec 06 22:41:22 Anyone here have an XBox 360? Dec 06 22:41:38 yeah, 100km away from me though :P Dec 06 22:41:47 I doubt the ir port will respond Dec 06 22:41:56 Heh Dec 06 22:42:13 I'm releasing this into extras tomorrow, it's a standalone XBox 360 media remote: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/qmote/Screenshot-20101206-222937.png Dec 06 22:42:49 license of the Xbox logo is? :P Dec 06 22:43:23 Doesn't matter, that logo was taken from someone else, who drew it themselves who said it can be used for anything :P Dec 06 22:43:35 lol Dec 06 22:44:49 That's not really true. Dec 06 22:44:57 This one is with OpenGL rendering: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/qmote/Screenshot-20101206-223447.png Dec 06 22:45:09 The gradient is better but the lines aren't well antialiased. Dec 06 22:45:28 If you draw a large yellow M, and use it as a logo for your fast food resturant - you will rapidly discover things about visual copyright Dec 06 22:45:29 * MohammadAG thinks he picked up trolling Dec 06 22:45:40 Heh Dec 06 22:45:55 SpeedEvil: that would depend on the M Dec 06 22:45:59 can't you only use OpenGL rendering for the logo? :P Dec 06 22:46:36 Actually, OpenGL just renders the gradients better. Dec 06 22:46:53 Because it seems to allow for a higher colour range. Dec 06 22:49:17 mooougt Dec 06 22:55:50 Robot101: ping Dec 06 23:00:47 alterego, do you know if Qt can do window overlays on Maemo? Dec 06 23:05:38 * DocScrutinizer throws 20 books dealing with McD at MohammadAG Dec 06 23:07:18 did you know the M is designed to address our mammal instincts? Dec 06 23:07:30 MohammadAG: how do you mean? Dec 06 23:07:42 at least some egghead claims that Dec 06 23:08:03 alterego, like a toolbar, thinking of doing something 5800-esque Dec 06 23:08:11 Overlays over GL contexts or framebuffer images? Dec 06 23:08:25 Got an example screen shot? Dec 06 23:08:30 Not sure what you mean. ;) Dec 06 23:08:45 But I'm sure whatever it is it's possible, if anything can do it Qt Gui can :D Dec 06 23:10:02 hmm Dec 06 23:10:09 QWidget::setWindowFlags(Qt::ToolTip | Qt::WindowStaysOnTopHint); might do it Dec 06 23:10:10 s/do/spoil/ Dec 06 23:10:13 sure, sec Dec 06 23:11:01 alterego, http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/3011285180_96069ba9cf.jpg Dec 06 23:12:40 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly.. For Qt we got this super duper KDE, and... what else? Any cross platform killer app based on Qt? Dec 06 23:13:46 DocScrutinizer: autodesk, google earth, photoshop album (adobe), skype, vlc... Dec 06 23:13:57 ...just out of curiosity. Not saying Qtmobile will never bring benefit to anything but meego Dec 06 23:14:21 gogle earth?? o.O Dec 06 23:14:28 crashanddie_: does windows skype use qt? Dec 06 23:14:36 no idea Dec 06 23:14:50 DocScrutinizer: yeah, if it looks horribly non-native that's because it ships with it's own ugly copy Dec 06 23:15:03 but it is possible to fix that and have it use your system's qt libs, and theming Dec 06 23:15:40 DocScrutinizer: And Symbian, but I think it's transitional, a lot will probably get put directly into Qt 4.8 Dec 06 23:16:08 DocScrutinizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Software_that_uses_Qt Dec 06 23:16:25 I was simply wondering if I ever seen any Qt widget outside of KDE Dec 06 23:16:28 * timeless_mbp gets sdl to build Dec 06 23:16:34 MohammadAG: you should be able to do that, but where would it go? Dec 06 23:16:39 (and maemo/meego of course :-P) Dec 06 23:16:40 What displays? Dec 06 23:17:05 virtualbox's main ui is qt based Dec 06 23:17:10 DocScrutinizer: well, quite a few companies use it too. Dec 06 23:17:13 nokia ovisuite is qt based Dec 06 23:17:32 alterego, the 5800 has a button, the N900 has a proximity sensor Dec 06 23:17:35 we use Python/Qt for our internal fat clients Dec 06 23:17:38 ooh, a windows app Dec 06 23:18:03 MohammadAG: Oh, like a quick launcher bar? Dec 06 23:18:04 usually as proof of concept, or ready-made tool for a few people Dec 06 23:18:06 DocScrutinizer: hypothetically it could be an os x app Dec 06 23:18:24 when the PoC has been accepted, we go for C++/Qt or C++/Win32 Dec 06 23:18:27 alterego, yep, look at the icons in the pic Dec 06 23:18:38 (the fact that it's Qt based can be seen by looking at the library list) Dec 06 23:18:44 (i.e. not a secret) Dec 06 23:18:50 yeah, but i've never heard of nokia ovisuite for OSx Dec 06 23:18:57 http://ompldr.org/vNmdldQ for an example of google earth looking a bit less like Windows 2000 Dec 06 23:18:57 customizable quick launch might be a better idea Dec 06 23:19:00 DocScrutinizer: there isn't one shipping today afaik Dec 06 23:19:07 MohammadAG: yeah, that's quite cool. Dec 06 23:19:16 however, shipping one would be a good thing from some perspective Dec 06 23:19:22 tbh I never heard of any Nokia ovisuite Dec 06 23:19:41 DocScrutinizer: new name for pc suite Dec 06 23:19:44 http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.techbetas.com/wp-content/uploads/picx/nokia_ovi_suite.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.techbetas.com/communications/telephony/nokia-ovi-suite/&usg=__m2iNr0wS93AUOIhZ8dQGjApZOaE=&h=338&w=600&sz=177&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=PN18Fm-b1tH4gM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=182&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnokia%2Bovi%2Bsuite%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1359%26bih%3D809%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs= Dec 06 23:19:44 =rc&dur=396&ei=Y239TJyCLoqb8QPlr83lBg&oei=Y239TJyCLoqb8QPlr83lBg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=91&ty=67 Dec 06 23:19:52 DocScrutinizer: count yourself lucky Dec 06 23:20:00 * DocScrutinizer sitting here, waiting for coffee to kick in and meanwhile messing up ovisuite and pcsuite Dec 06 23:20:01 That is an awful link Dec 06 23:20:11 ffs my laptop is too fast Dec 06 23:20:12 alterego: thanks Dec 06 23:20:16 * timeless_mbp blames googl Dec 06 23:20:38 timeless_mbp: never heard of tinyurl? :P Dec 06 23:20:52 alterego: i naively assume all urls are tiny :) Dec 06 23:20:57 * DocScrutinizer hands daily WTF medal to timeless_mbp Dec 06 23:20:59 safari doesn't show me urls Dec 06 23:20:59 Heh Dec 06 23:21:24 MohammadAG: gonna import that 360 media remote tomorrow. Dec 06 23:21:38 into -devel Dec 06 23:21:44 * DocScrutinizer tries to c&p merge the above link Dec 06 23:21:51 Safari doesn't show me web pages. Dec 06 23:22:19 alterego, I think google does that to count references or something similar Dec 06 23:22:29 Anyhow, bedtime now. Dec 06 23:22:33 g'night folks Dec 06 23:22:54 night alterego :) Dec 06 23:24:26 timeless_mbp: how many #ifdef ; statements are in that source? If you happen to know... Dec 06 23:24:38 DocScrutinizer: never seen or found the source Dec 06 23:25:01 and yes, i was looking Dec 06 23:25:11 but not for mac Dec 06 23:25:15 alterego: o/ Dec 06 23:25:17 i was looking because it hung on windows Dec 06 23:26:28 i'm still working on tracking down the hang Dec 06 23:28:20 MohammadAG: how far you got with building an alternative pk, "THE *good* pk"? Dec 06 23:38:36 can somebody help me, firstly by telling me where internet radio files are stored? Dec 06 23:41:40 nobody knows? Dec 06 23:50:25 what is a "internet radio file"? Dec 06 23:51:05 I think he wants to know where internet radio bookmarks are stored Dec 06 23:51:14 hm, me too Dec 06 23:51:52 I even suppose that's related to mediaplayer Dec 06 23:51:58 Not sure how I can handle lircd.conf in a nice way. Dec 06 23:52:15 * alterego wonders what qtirreco/irreco does Dec 06 23:52:20 stab it, then go to bed Dec 06 23:52:24 alterego: talk gentle and polite to it Dec 06 23:52:34 A lircd.conf.d would be nice Dec 06 23:53:12 alterego: a mce-ini.d would also be nice Dec 06 23:53:34 that would be uber-easy, just needs agreement from all m.o application uploaders Dec 06 23:53:46 javispedro: indeed. Dec 06 23:53:58 And how would we go about this? ;) Dec 06 23:54:11 Spam the -devel mailing list, tmo, and this channel. Dec 06 23:54:16 I could upload a new lirc package with .d support Dec 06 23:54:38 And then tell everyone about it, yeah :) Dec 06 23:54:44 there are a few candidates that might be more interesting though Dec 06 23:54:57 How do you mean? Dec 06 23:55:49 What I'd prefer is a lircd replacement. Something that allows you to upload your own configuration when you startup and forgets it when you disconnect. Dec 06 23:55:50 I cannot recall any such file atm but I'm sure some packager here will be able to: any config file owned by a base image package that you change at the posinst? Dec 06 23:56:13 alterego: what's wring with >>include "/home/user/MyDocs/irreco/InternalLircDevices/50PG6000"<< in /etc/lircd.conf - except it gets a new line for every foobar Dec 06 23:56:25 (a bug in irreco) Dec 06 23:56:33 wrong* Dec 06 23:56:49 DocScrutinizer: I wonder if that works with wildcards ;) Dec 06 23:56:57 haha Dec 06 23:57:26 no idea really. Check lirc source Dec 06 23:57:34 Okay, so that's how irreco does it, uses include, cool. Dec 06 23:58:21 I think I'd still like to write a lirc replacement, for just sending, a lightweight framework of some kind. Dec 06 23:58:34 /usr/share/applications/uri-action-defaults.list Dec 06 23:58:34 is one such file Dec 06 23:58:52 that really needs people agreeing to use a .d dir Dec 06 23:59:05 because Nokia is not going to fix it.. Dec 06 23:59:32 Heh Dec 06 23:59:58 alterego: still on your crusade to replace existing packets because of "Meh, NIH. And cba to read if the old package supports what I need"? Dec 07 00:00:34 alterego: well, you're in good company. That's how PA was born Dec 07 00:00:47 Hahah, Dec 07 00:01:18 trumee: pong Dec 07 00:01:19 lirc is kind of ugly Dec 07 00:01:24 imo Dec 07 00:02:11 It does mostly what I need, but what if someone steps on my toes, and I don't want to have to walk around others' feet either. Dec 07 00:02:29 linux is kind of ugly. I'm looking forward for your alternative you'll come up with undoubtedly, in a few weeks Dec 07 00:02:52 What's ugly about Linux? Dec 07 00:03:11 it's monolithic for a start Dec 07 00:03:12 err, lirc. No? For example Dec 07 00:03:33 SysV init Dec 07 00:03:38 err upstart Dec 07 00:03:42 Heh Dec 07 00:03:45 kernel modules Dec 07 00:03:45 esound! Dec 07 00:04:16 I bet you can come up with a beautiful alternative to all that, in no time Dec 07 00:04:46 * javispedro goes check how's the Linux Unified Kernel going Dec 07 00:04:53 maybe call it aldroid then Dec 07 00:06:07 lol deletionpedia Dec 07 00:06:14 Not really, be practical .. Dec 07 00:06:33 an article gets nomination to be deleted. eventually it is all discovered to be a fraud (the nomineer was a sockpuppet account for a _banned_ user) Dec 07 00:06:43 yet the result of the votation = delete Dec 07 00:06:47 so the article gets deleted. Dec 07 00:07:01 Dec 07 00:07:31 I don't mind writing something smaller, but cleaner towards my requirements when the currently available infrastructure is likely to cause failures for all users' Dec 07 00:07:55 I want to distribute a single remote as an app. Dec 07 00:08:03 hmm Dec 07 00:08:07 there's an app like that already Dec 07 00:08:08 sorry, I question your competence to decide on the "for all users" part here Dec 07 00:08:25 DocScrutinizer: question what you want. Dec 07 00:08:27 iirc it was about some still camera remote Dec 07 00:08:34 It's my decision. Dec 07 00:08:43 sure Dec 07 00:08:53 And I don't give a toss if you don't agree with me. Dec 07 00:08:58 do whatever you like. It's your karma Dec 07 00:09:52 But I don't think you're thinking clearly if you think that multiple apps playing around with the same system config file wont screw something up eventually. Dec 07 00:10:34 for example what happened on maemo is the app "owning" the config file getting updated in a PR release and overwriting the "shared" config file Dec 07 00:10:40 uhuh. So your alternative was what exactly? discarding that file so nobody else can play with it? Dec 07 00:11:39 No, my alternative was to not use lirc or that file so I don't have to second guess what others' do or don't do with it. Dec 07 00:11:56 brilliant Dec 07 00:12:38 Would you rather I spent my time promoting the use of a .d approach? Is that why you're being bitchy? :P Dec 07 00:14:21 It would take more time and effort for me to do that. Dec 07 00:14:46 And I don't see what's wrong with my approach. Except you're opinion, obviously. Dec 07 00:15:31 oh yeah. The best solutions always were born from the notion to avoid all dispensible pondering Dec 07 00:16:39 So, what is your issue with my approach? Dec 07 00:16:56 * javispedro watches MohammadAG being an optimist on tmo Dec 07 00:17:18 of course your solution has not portability problems - you can port it to whatever system/platform you like. It also has no compatibility issues - it simply creates a new world where there are no incompatible things allowed Dec 07 00:18:09 m'hmm Dec 07 00:18:56 forgot about this window, it was quiet before. Dec 07 00:19:10 yes, i meant internet radio bookmark files Dec 07 00:19:12 it's a shiny new world. Hope you like it, and maybe you find somebody to share it with - not me though, I like to keep what I got. And I like to keep my freedom Dec 07 00:19:25 Okay, how about I submit a patch to lirc making irsend capable of sending arbitrary commands, without a config file. Dec 07 00:19:38 good idea Dec 07 00:19:46 no sarcasm this time Dec 07 00:19:51 :P Dec 07 00:19:51 because; i wanted to use Alarmed to turn on my radio in the morning. Dec 07 00:20:06 * MohammadAG smiles at javispedro Dec 07 00:20:09 I'm sorry, I just get into a lazy mindset sometimes. Dec 07 00:20:22 MohammadAG: what thread are you loving up now? Dec 07 00:20:22 anybody know how i would do this? Dec 07 00:21:20 alterego, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=891018#post891018 I think :P Dec 07 00:21:31 wouldn't it be wonderful to wake up some day and find the entire source code of all maemo user applications on a nice tarball at your feet? Dec 07 00:21:58 alterego: for this patch you get all the support I'm able to offer Dec 07 00:22:03 unfortunately, the entire quim's post reads like a 72pt NO to me. Dec 07 00:22:30 javispedro: that might be kinda terrifying. Dec 07 00:22:34 I swear it looked bigger than 72pt Dec 07 00:22:47 nevertheless, no surprises here. Dec 07 00:22:58 DocScrutinizer: it brings another problem though, I still need a strategy for my app :P Dec 07 00:23:12 Which I wanted to upload to extras tomorrow. Dec 07 00:23:37 javispedro, I'm surprised Nokia's keeping crappy components closed, and opening up hildon-desktop Dec 07 00:23:48 or actually, all of hildon Dec 07 00:23:56 makes sense Dec 07 00:24:09 hildon > mediaplayer Dec 07 00:24:15 I'm sure it took longer to code Dec 07 00:24:17 hildon was always supposed to be open Dec 07 00:24:18 exactly Dec 07 00:24:42 it has costed me more than a year but I think i'm finally starting to understand what's this all about... Dec 07 00:24:49 but wouldn't be able to explain it =) Dec 07 00:24:52 wasn't osso* supposed to be open too? Dec 07 00:25:11 Nope, never Dec 07 00:25:12 what's the big deal with mediaplayer? isn't it easily replaced by porting an existing, nicer media player? Dec 07 00:25:21 osso was just a group name :P Dec 07 00:25:29 BCMM, name one Dec 07 00:25:35 BCMM: how to say.. there's a reason I do not use kde or gnome as my daily OS. Dec 07 00:25:44 (on the N900, that is) Dec 07 00:25:45 hmm, fair enough Dec 07 00:25:59 in fact Dec 07 00:26:07 rythmbox is cool, though I doubt it can run on the N900 Dec 07 00:26:16 javispedro: (explain) start a mind-dump Dec 07 00:26:19 visualizations in it crash on an old desktop Dec 07 00:26:22 maybe we get it Dec 07 00:26:25 there must be a reason I'm here and not #openmoko =) Dec 07 00:26:34 It's been said that replacing the media player and making it functionally identical and at least asthetically similar would be easy. Dec 07 00:26:55 now repeat for the rest of the applications. Dec 07 00:27:02 alterego, with tracker support? :P Dec 07 00:27:06 But what is the point if our base platform is going to stagnate and not ever get updated? Dec 07 00:27:07 DocScrutinizer, good news for sip users. MWI arrived in telepathy-sip. Dec 07 00:27:19 \o/ Dec 07 00:27:24 and don't understimate them; meego handset would me like a 200% more usable if it had, dunno, a proper notetaking app. Dec 07 00:27:31 or a working sms app ;) Dec 07 00:27:48 or a working * Dec 07 00:28:32 I just don't see much point in replacing core maemo apps without us being able to maintain the core platform, which is why I'm doing meego :P Dec 07 00:29:08 what is the core platform Dec 07 00:29:15 what core platform? Dec 07 00:29:19 hildon is open Dec 07 00:29:25 feel free to write an mce alternative Dec 07 00:29:30 kernel is open Dec 07 00:29:32 In fact I'd kill the distro. Dec 07 00:29:33 esp what closed source core platform? Dec 07 00:29:37 jrbme is on track Dec 07 00:29:39 MeeGo terminology I guess, kernel and base system Dec 07 00:29:50 kernel is 100% open Dec 07 00:30:02 mce is a PITA, admittedly Dec 07 00:30:08 and as for the interesting core stuff that isn't open, it isn't open on Meego either. Dec 07 00:30:17 not for the N900 port currently, that is. Dec 07 00:30:18 mce is THE ugly wart in maemo now Dec 07 00:30:37 and the phone UI Dec 07 00:30:38 mce just does something that on the 770 nit times no oss application did Dec 07 00:30:40 So, are you saying we could build an up-to-date image for the N900 with full h/w support? I don't think so. Dec 07 00:30:50 would it be hard to make flip to silent configurable? Dec 07 00:30:54 MohammadAG: phone-ui can be replaced, I guess Dec 07 00:31:01 mce is really hard to RE Dec 07 00:31:12 it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes, and that's including a coffee break Dec 07 00:31:17 javispedro: I understand that, but at least they have newer versions being built for them when ever they need it :P Dec 07 00:31:24 MohammadAG: also I'm talking bout system Dec 07 00:31:28 not userland Dec 07 00:31:39 yeah, got that Dec 07 00:31:52 alterego: same trap Dec 07 00:31:52 kernel, port 2.6.35, I doubt it's hard to get working on Maemo 5 Dec 07 00:32:03 it's just that I hate MeeGo's way of distributing kernel patches Dec 07 00:32:10 not really understandable without some headache Dec 07 00:32:23 MohammadAG: a lot has changed between 28 and 35 .. Dec 07 00:32:49 alterego, I know, mce and bme will probably die first Dec 07 00:32:58 we can get the MeeGo bme, it works properly I guess Dec 07 00:32:58 We'd need updated busybox, udev, and a whole other bunch of junk Dec 07 00:33:06 busybox? Dec 07 00:33:07 mce, well, there has to be alternative for that Dec 07 00:33:24 err, isn't that userspace? Dec 07 00:33:32 meh, we don't need bme Dec 07 00:33:34 hey, .28 and .36 are different, but I'd say _some_ binary applications would run ;) Dec 07 00:33:44 yes, some Dec 07 00:33:58 DocScrutinizer: it doesn't matter. Dec 07 00:34:11 There was a bit of sysfs moving inbetween those two versions thugh Dec 07 00:34:23 any attempt to forward port half of maemo results in disaster Dec 07 00:34:35 lots of past examples Dec 07 00:34:44 yeah, alwqays this sysfs moving. I still wait for getting a hold to the kernel devels that do that Dec 07 00:34:47 So any apps with hardcoded links to sysfs entries or anything like that may fail. Dec 07 00:35:35 So, basically, we can't just boot up on a new kernel and module set. Dec 07 00:35:40 that's what we've seen on every distro, for every major kernel version update Dec 07 00:36:02 The rootfs would need refreshing too. Dec 07 00:36:05 (in fact I'd say I've find the kernel behaviour quite ultra conservative on this regard) Dec 07 00:36:13 *found Dec 07 00:36:54 hmm, I'm particularly talking about OE here Dec 07 00:36:57 exactly, so, igo meego :P Dec 07 00:37:37 I develop apps for me, :) Dec 07 00:38:30 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_sysfs#GTA02_Kernel_sysfs_highlights_for_kernel_2.6.28 Dec 07 00:38:56 So, back to my problem. How can I distribute my app to play nice in lirc land whilst we wait for a ne lirc version with arb command support? Dec 07 00:39:05 DocScrutinizer: O.o Dec 07 00:40:09 yo Dec 07 00:40:39 from reading that though, there was a clear reason for the madness Dec 07 00:40:52 DocScrutinizer: hah, that's also mean a lot of wiki.maemo.org edits for all the sysfs path changes too ;) Dec 07 00:40:59 you (or board kernel dev) changed the device tree Dec 07 00:41:27 I dunno whom to bash - the original authors for choosing a wrong path, ot the patch authors for breaking the paths without proper rationale Dec 07 00:41:36 and whoever rewrote the sysfs paths on that wiki was smart enough to reference them by class instead of device tree path Dec 07 00:41:41 I wonder how different meego sysfs is to maemos' I'll have to check that tomorrow. Dec 07 00:42:29 Urgh, who uses device path ... Dec 07 00:42:57 someone who believed the platform devices would always hang from the platform driver Dec 07 00:43:19 (imho correctly. osx/xnu here has multiple trees depending on which PoV: logical, power, etc. which would have helped here) Dec 07 00:43:45 sort of a noobish question but Dec 07 00:43:57 why does sysfs have a lot of infinite loop? Dec 07 00:43:59 loops even Dec 07 00:44:24 MohammadAG: that's just how it is :P Dec 07 00:44:59 It's so devices can reference the bus they're on which also references the devices, which reference the bus ..... Dec 07 00:45:03 for the best of my understanding, sysfs was never meant to be accessed directly by userland though Dec 07 00:45:46 it was -- the issue is the typical oss one Dec 07 00:45:48 sysfs is basically a file system that allows you to view kernel data structures in a logical UNIX like way. Dec 07 00:46:35 you see, a developer makes an interface for his device, and exports it on sysfs. he adds "i'm still thinking on this, give me some time to finish it", thinking one month or two. Dec 07 00:46:38 So you get back references like you do in the structs that define the data you're looking at in the kernel. Dec 07 00:47:00 I've seen quite some drivers that implement proper /dev/* entries for /sys/* Dec 07 00:47:03 then some distro which can't wait to offer XXXX compatibility starts using the interface Dec 07 00:47:24 and a new crapsack is born Dec 07 00:51:29 probably for userland the correct approach to access sysfs would be to consider path a tuple of properties, and do a find /sysfs -name "*display*" -a -name "*LCD*" -a -name "*brightness" Dec 07 00:52:12 sounds uglier ;) Dec 07 00:52:32 apply the usual rule of computer science: add another abstraction layer Dec 07 00:52:42 hehehehe Dec 07 00:52:47 it alwaaaaaaaaaays works ;) Dec 07 00:53:25 you talking about sysctl? :) Dec 07 00:53:41 sysfs Dec 07 00:53:58 (hm altho i think sysctl existed first...) Dec 07 00:53:59 DocScrutinizer: I think what I'll do in the time being is: create include (like irreco), check its' there on startup etc. Dec 07 00:54:35 To ensure my remote config doesn't clash with others', I'll tage the remotes internal config name with my application name. Dec 07 00:54:44 Or maybe vendor tag. Dec 07 00:54:52 good plan, esp since e.g irreco starts lircd by calling /etc/init.d/lircd start Dec 07 00:55:01 I know. Dec 07 00:55:09 I'll have to do that too. Dec 07 00:56:02 Guess what thogh! Whatever package setup sudo access for lirc, I think it's the lirc package itself, writes direct to sudoers and doesn't use .d or update-sudoers ... Dec 07 00:56:11 what a fucking suprise ;) Dec 07 00:56:31 ouch Dec 07 00:56:36 hm Dec 07 00:56:54 i'm a heavy update-sudoers user and yet irreco never stopped working for me Dec 07 00:56:59 so whatever it does is non-important Dec 07 00:57:13 yeah, strange Dec 07 00:57:46 javispedro: I don't know if that script ignores statements outside it's own begin/end comments .. Dec 07 00:57:57 letmetest Dec 07 00:58:01 Which it might do .. Dec 07 00:58:02 maybe it doesn't use update-sudoers but instead writes both an append to /etc/sudoers and a file to sudoers.d/ Dec 07 00:58:18 DocScrutinizer: no entry in .d .. Dec 07 00:58:26 hmm :-/ Dec 07 01:00:12 correct Dec 07 01:00:29 IroN900:~# grep lirc /etc/sudoers Dec 07 01:00:31 user ALL = NOPASSWD: /etc/init.d/lirc reload Dec 07 01:00:32 ... Dec 07 01:00:40 it does keep stuff outside start/end indeed Dec 07 01:00:43 IroN900:~# grep lirc /etc/sudoers.d/* Dec 07 01:00:45 NULL Dec 07 01:00:48 it puts it on the end of the file Dec 07 01:01:06 javispedro: neat but its' still a package bug imo ;) Dec 07 01:01:17 as usual I have some maemo stuff outside .d Dec 07 01:01:18 it's a mega bug Dec 07 01:01:46 I wonder how it removes its' entries on removal :D Dec 07 01:01:46 though I consider update-sudoers a fsckng braindamaged concept as well Dec 07 01:02:02 DocScrutinizer: why? Dec 07 01:02:04 DocScrutinizer: I don't. Actually it is "the debian way" Dec 07 01:02:29 DocScrutinizer: If you ever tab-completed update- on a debian system as root, you'll see lots, lots and lots of similar utilities Dec 07 01:02:46 it's BS to check correctness of CONFIG(!!) files on every boot Dec 07 01:03:01 it does? Dec 07 01:03:14 update-sudoers is meant to be run at a package's postinst script Dec 07 01:03:16 not a boot time Dec 07 01:03:27 and it's no problem to make sure you have only correct sudoers.d/* files, on creation/edit time Dec 07 01:04:00 Yeah not sure about boot time. Dec 07 01:04:10 I've always liked the .d pproach ... Dec 07 01:05:01 sure, and sudo has an include statement for that Dec 07 01:05:04 :-P Dec 07 01:05:19 HAH! Dec 07 01:05:23 gotya DocScrutinizer Dec 07 01:05:33 sudo might, but not the ages-old version Maemo has ;) Dec 07 01:05:41 DocScrutinizer: like, include sudoers.d/* ? Dec 07 01:05:45 so fsckit Dec 07 01:06:04 update sudo instead of using this abomination called update-sudoers Dec 07 01:06:15 it was probably created in 770 times Dec 07 01:06:15 Heh Dec 07 01:06:16 alterego: yep Dec 07 01:06:21 Neat Dec 07 01:06:28 and then they applied the "it works don't touch it" rule Dec 07 01:09:09 Nice, my simple qml app takes 10% memory Dec 07 01:09:25 That's the same as my quite large columbus app ... Dec 07 01:09:29 measured with? Dec 07 01:09:33 top Dec 07 01:09:37 discard that Dec 07 01:09:44 Guessing its' mostly Qt Dec 07 01:09:45 It is possible to include other sudoers files from within the sudoers file currently being parsed using the #include and #includedir directives. Dec 07 01:09:56 (from man sudoers) Dec 07 01:09:58 DocScrutinizer: introduce in sudo 1.7.something Dec 07 01:10:01 *introduced Dec 07 01:10:12 DocScrutinizer: while Maemo's one is 1.6.8 Dec 07 01:10:20 ouch Dec 07 01:10:25 I know this from heart, told ya I'm a heavy update-sudoers user.. Dec 07 01:10:36 taking pride in vintage? Dec 07 01:10:41 Heh Dec 07 01:10:42 in deception :( Dec 07 01:11:05 remember I wanted to update rootsh based on sudo only? Dec 07 01:11:25 turns out the ancient Maemo sudo version doesn't support removing certain env vars Dec 07 01:11:28 thus when using sudo -s Dec 07 01:11:32 $HOME is always /home/user Dec 07 01:11:40 (not /root) Dec 07 01:11:44 which breaks havoc Dec 07 01:11:46 bug: update sudo to a version >=1.7 (supporting #include and #includedir directives.). Get rid of update-sudoers Dec 07 01:12:57 but then some idiot named javispedro would come to that bug and say, "no, update to >=1.8 which has support for removing environment variables when calling interactive shells!" Dec 07 01:13:08 DocScrutinizer: I wonder how many packages that would break :P Dec 07 01:13:26 javispedro: I'd applaude to that comment Dec 07 01:14:06 alterego: how could it break packages? Dec 07 01:14:44 meanwhile, for those of you who don't visit *.meego.com , http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10739 Dec 07 01:14:45 Bug 10739: Powertop licencing. Dec 07 01:14:51 povbot: bad bot! Dec 07 01:14:52 javispedro: Error: "bad" is not a valid command. Dec 07 01:15:14 LOL Dec 07 01:15:21 rotfl Dec 07 01:15:59 doesn't the entire bug report remind you of bugs.maemo.org? Dec 07 01:16:00 Bug 10739 - Hard to resize window with touchscreen Dec 07 01:16:01 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/10739 Powertop licencing. Dec 07 01:16:03 ??? Dec 07 01:16:13 in tone. Dec 07 01:16:17 DocScrutinizer: actually, I suppose it wouldn't it'd just complain the update command wasn't found. Dec 07 01:16:27 alterego: or stub it Dec 07 01:17:31 alterego: update-sudoers could get changed to do a mere syntactical chack in sudoers.d/* and discard offenders Dec 07 01:18:16 ...instead of rewriting /etc/sudoers Dec 07 01:19:23 * DocScrutinizer wonders where he thought he found a call to update-sudoers during system init Dec 07 01:20:10 somehow it's hiding away from my grep's Dec 07 01:23:05 javispedro: (10739) WTF?! Dec 07 01:24:58 also the WONTFIX is ultra lame. At least the dude closing the bug should have the balls to say INVALID Dec 07 01:25:46 closing bugs "by policy" is already very maemoish Dec 07 01:25:56 * alterego wonders what other little qml apps he can work on. Dec 07 01:26:01 well, who ever claimed meego would be less evil than maemo? Dec 07 01:27:16 hmm, time for a midnight coffee Dec 07 01:28:26 Do we have a way to send Alt? Dec 07 01:29:24 esc Dec 07 01:30:14 I mean in non terminal apps :x Dec 07 01:30:23 snd was probably the wrong word ;) Dec 07 01:30:38 well, technically it's a bit confusing to talk about "sending alt", depending on which level you're looking at Dec 07 01:31:16 so, simple answer: no Dec 07 01:31:22 :) Dec 07 01:43:11 double shift should be alt... Dec 07 02:36:52 wtf is double-shift? Dec 07 02:37:31 the only double-shift I could think of is clearly bound to shiftlock Dec 07 02:38:00 shift-Fn should be Alt Dec 07 02:38:17 while Fn is AltGr I've been told Dec 07 02:40:40 * DocScrutinizer notices a postit on his laptop screen, saying "mod hw-kbd driver to support true macros and dbus signal emits" Dec 07 02:59:17 timeless_: "Fn Taste ist gesperrt" for "Fn key locked" OUCH! "gesperrt" means you can't use it, it's blocked. Not locked in place. In German the shift-lock is called "Feststelltaste" but "Fn ist festgestellt" is also BS. I suggest "Fn Taste eingerastet" or "Fn Taste wird gehalten" **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 07 02:59:58 2010