**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 20 02:59:58 2010 Dec 20 03:01:47 i thought i'll be able to remove as easly while tagging those pics Dec 20 03:13:22 juk: any picture tool that can do stuff with EXIF tags Dec 20 03:15:19 SpeedEvil: nevermind http://www.ljdiaz.com/how-to-delete-photo-tags-on-your-n900/ Dec 20 03:15:37 ah Dec 20 03:51:25 7 Dec 20 04:01:16 i'm trying to monitor a room's temperature remotely with my n800, someone has some knowledge about precision of the measures ? Dec 20 04:02:47 n800 has the hardware to measure room temp? Dec 20 04:02:54 i didn't know that Dec 20 04:03:21 tank-man, well.. it's not intended for that.. but i can be used if the tablet is not producing heat Dec 20 04:03:52 i'll be monitoring my datacenter's temp and ac power supply using my n800 Dec 20 04:04:01 maybe pinging some servers too :) Dec 20 04:08:21 disco_stu: it's producing a lot of heat Dec 20 04:08:34 disco_stu: that sensor is in middle between battery cpu and everything Dec 20 04:08:46 disco_stu: and you will get 10C or more than real temperature Dec 20 04:09:16 jacekowski, i'll run tests tomorrow and compare with my installed sensors Dec 20 04:09:53 now its reading 33°C which i think is very accurate Dec 20 04:19:38 * timeless_mbp frowns Dec 20 04:27:53 disco_stu: it's more like -9 here Dec 20 04:28:00 and snow Dec 20 04:28:11 my thermocouple is all frozen Dec 20 04:28:53 jacekowski, lol.. where r u ? Dec 20 04:30:05 england Dec 20 05:12:17 Hello, I just got my hands on a 2nd hand n900 and I want to flash it back to factory settings. Reading the Wiki it tells me I need to flash the eMMC and rootfs but one page(1) tells me to "always flash the eMMC/VANILLA image first, and then flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image" and the other one(2) tells me to flash FIASCO image first then the eMMC image. which one is right? Dec 20 05:12:40 (1) http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 (2) http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5#Tips_.26_troubleshooting Dec 20 05:21:08 rednose: I'm not sure it really matters Dec 20 05:21:15 just don't boot in between Dec 20 05:25:48 luke-jr_ Can you brick the n900 by getting the flashing wrong? Dec 20 05:26:08 rednose: if you try Dec 20 05:26:23 luke-jr_: bricked to the point of not being unbrickable? Dec 20 05:26:51 you should be ok as long as you don't use -x, -s, -2 Dec 20 05:59:22 Do I want the PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 Global release for Nokia N900 for use in the UK? Dec 20 06:00:29 .36-2 ? Dec 20 06:00:39 what's the difference? Dec 20 06:02:24 Necc: the was UK variant for PR 1.2 not anymore? And I do not know Dec 20 06:04:27 Why does Nokia hide the download behind a IMEI number login ? I sure that breaks the GPL Dec 20 06:17:42 rednose: It doesn't Dec 20 06:17:52 rednose: That is the binary only Dec 20 06:20:10 SpeedEvil: so the source (GPL source that is) is not locked down like that then? Dec 20 06:21:27 the binary contains non GPL components Dec 20 06:21:34 the source is available Dec 20 06:21:49 Of the GPL components Dec 20 06:22:09 it is prefectly legit to put it behind a IMEI number login Dec 20 06:22:24 GPL doesn't require more Dec 20 06:27:17 GPL requires absolutely nothng about the distribution of binaries if you make source available Dec 20 06:29:00 rednose: (1) also tellsa you why to do it that way, and that it had different instructions in the past that were not appropriate Dec 20 06:31:05 GPL only requires you to make source available to folks you have given binaries to. nothing more. Dec 20 06:31:22 if you have the device, you have the binaries and thus you have the sources. so nothing wrong with an IMEI login Dec 20 06:32:02 DocScrutinizer: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php tells me to do it the other way around..... Dec 20 06:32:05 while http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5#Tips_.26_troubleshooting gives some rationale why you must flash rootfs as well when flashing eMMC, but has no word at all why eMMC must be flashed last Dec 20 06:32:27 rednose: nope, reread it Dec 20 06:33:09 actually IIRC http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php has no special advice about the sequence Dec 20 06:34:33 anyone has example usage of HildonFileSelection? Dec 20 06:35:37 while both http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5#Tips_.26_troubleshooting AND http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 explain why it's bad to flash eMMC and then not flash rootfs (reread and look for "opt" keyword) Dec 20 06:37:55 rednose: what of >>Rationale: on accidental booting in between the 2 flash processes, the sequence formerly suggested (rootfs first) will result in a broken system. The sequence "eMMC first, then rootfs" is checked back with Nokia affiliates and is proven to work<< made you worry? Dec 20 06:39:06 from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php "Latest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N900 Dec 20 06:39:06 NOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first, then the eMMC image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image! When flashing eMMC always also flash FIASCO rootfs - NEVER boot the device between the two flashes." Dec 20 06:39:44 damn, so they rolled back the notice there Dec 20 06:39:54 so FIASCO then eMMC then FIASCO ? eh?! Dec 20 06:39:56 this page is *wrong* Dec 20 06:41:13 X-Fade: please can you check http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php and finally edit this advice for good, please Dec 20 06:42:41 DocScrutinizer: So do I take it that Nokia website is right? Dec 20 06:42:52 rednose: actually that sequene will always work, and is what a *lot* of people end up doing, as it's really hard to avoid booting after flashing rootfs / prior to e,,c flash Dec 20 06:43:40 rednose: I start to feel you're trolling, and I'm not interested in this Dec 20 06:44:48 DocScrutinizer: I am a noob I just got my n900 3 days ago 2nd hand and I do not want to brick it Dec 20 06:45:35 you CAN NOT brick it, whatever you do (except water, sledgehammers, and lightning stoke) Dec 20 06:46:30 odds are you'll "brick" it when following the Nokia page advice, and will have to flash rootfs AFTER your eMMC flash Dec 20 06:46:46 DocScrutinizer: Thats very nice to hear! Dec 20 06:47:33 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 has been tested by hundereds of people, and it simply works Dec 20 06:49:51 while Nokia's advice *might* be needed anytime in the future, if for example Nokia decides to change size of swap or sth like that. With recent eMMC img it's simply useless to "always flash rootfs first" Dec 20 06:51:43 so RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin first then RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin just so i'm 100% right? Dec 20 06:51:48 you however should switch on the N900 while pointing it direction east *only* Dec 20 06:52:19 very funny. I can see your name switch Dec 20 06:52:45 now I'll watch how long it takes till 7 webpages quote that and everybody is concerned why there's no compass shipped with N900 :-P Dec 20 06:52:58 haha Dec 20 06:53:25 rednose: (so RX...) right Dec 20 06:54:21 Ok. Time to pray to god of flashing! Dec 20 06:54:31 if the is one.... Dec 20 06:55:17 you'll love it as once you got hte catch how to do it, it's an amazingly easy and convenient and fast procedure Dec 20 06:56:19 start flasher cmd, wait for "no device found, waiting...", THEN plug in the powered down N900 while holding 'u' Dec 20 06:56:29 seems this procedure always works Dec 20 06:57:15 except if you have some problems with your PC, or your battery is empty. It is *REALLY* important to fully charge battery Dec 20 07:02:12 I trashed my partition table on the internal mmc but it hasn't unmounted the partitions so I'm doing a backup to an external card and then will try to restore the default partition table via sfdisk using an alternative to maemo, wish me luck Dec 20 07:07:40 tealbird: wonder if you can use /proc/partitions to read back the values and write them out? Dec 20 07:10:58 ds3: the default partition table is posted on the wiki so I was going to use that Dec 20 07:11:38 http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash Dec 20 07:12:04 tealbird: crossing my fingers Dec 20 07:12:15 thank you :) Dec 20 07:12:45 you need any sfdisk printout or sth? Dec 20 07:14:02 also a swapoff is probably a good idea Dec 20 07:14:36 sfdisk printout wouldn't hurt though it's on the wiki Dec 20 07:14:42 At least, I hope thats accurate Dec 20 07:14:43 ah Dec 20 07:15:06 toss me the exact cmdline (no sfdisk expert here) Dec 20 07:15:28 sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 should do it Dec 20 07:15:32 uh Dec 20 07:15:42 wait a second, there's a better version Dec 20 07:16:21 http://pastebin.com/Tjssyy8d Dec 20 07:17:16 DocScrutinizer: Thanks I'm now running version 20.2010.36-2. that is the newest version? Dec 20 07:17:23 yes Dec 20 07:17:27 thank you Dec 20 07:17:35 yw :-) Dec 20 07:18:05 apt does not update firmware Dec 20 07:18:12 i connect my n900 via usb to my computer on a LAN Dec 20 07:18:25 even when i did apt-get ugrade it did not update it Dec 20 07:19:26 DocScrutinizer: is "My Nokia subscription" opt in with PR 1.3? Dec 20 07:20:05 Pradeep: wasn't that you whom I told yesterday "do NOT do apt-get upgrade"? Dec 20 07:20:29 rednose: nope Dec 20 07:20:41 still a cherry PITA Dec 20 07:20:55 has there ever been an opt-in "My Nokia"? Dec 20 07:21:06 no Dec 20 07:21:19 No? Dec 20 07:21:21 there's just been pkg notmynokia Dec 20 07:21:45 or the hack where you de-sim it, boot it, hack it up, flush sms, re-sim Dec 20 07:21:54 yes Dec 20 07:22:17 DocScrutinizer: Ok time to friendy with Xterminal I love Linux Dec 20 07:22:28 I run Gentoo on my main rig Dec 20 07:23:34 so i must use wireless to update Dec 20 07:24:50 DocScrutinizer: that does appear to match the wiki page Dec 20 07:25:06 pffffuh Dec 20 07:25:13 :-D Dec 20 07:25:29 DocScrutinizer then hw do i do it if i dont have a wireless Dec 20 07:25:31 yeah, this is from a rather unmangled device Dec 20 07:25:41 huh Dec 20 07:26:33 Pradeep: the use USB networking Dec 20 07:26:41 the wiki has a howto Dec 20 07:26:50 then* Dec 20 07:27:44 any idea what could be breaking gstreamer on fremantle 1.3? Dec 20 07:30:11 so how do i do it cos search the internet all tru yesterday on this Dec 20 07:35:56 I have a entry in /var/spool/sms/regs_out.txt but nothing in /var/spool/sms/outgoing/ this phone has never seen a sim card Dec 20 07:50:36 bernie: powerkernel? Dec 20 07:51:21 rednose: install notmynokia. AIUI it takes care about cleaning up Dec 20 07:52:51 Stiil some more shameless self-advertizing, but if anyone would be willing to test this theme I would greatly appriciate it Dec 20 07:52:55 since it's one vote from extras Dec 20 07:52:57 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/miku-theme/0.9/ Dec 20 07:53:27 please someone should ans me Dec 20 07:53:35 huh Dec 20 07:54:46 DocScrutinizer: no, I have 2.6.28-omap1 Dec 20 07:56:05 DocScrutinizer: I have libgstreamer0.10-0_0.10.25-0maemo4+0m5 Dec 20 07:57:00 Pradeep: Dec 20 07:57:05 ~usb-networking Dec 20 07:57:06 extra, extra, read all about it, usb-networking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking Dec 20 07:57:20 bernie: no idea Dec 20 07:59:08 even http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications Dec 20 08:04:13 ok i would read that then Dec 20 08:04:54 if not would look for windows system and install ovi suite then update my fone from there Dec 20 08:05:18 cos i dont have any wireless network around me Dec 20 08:09:29 on my n900, this command line fails for mp3: Dec 20 08:09:40 gst-launch -v playbin uri='file:///home/user/MyDocs/Music/foobar.mp3' Dec 20 08:09:49 works for ogg vorbis Dec 20 08:10:33 Make sure you have the LAME mp3 plugin installed? Dec 20 08:12:19 RobbieThe1st: what's the deb name? Dec 20 08:12:23 I dunno Dec 20 08:14:37 Hm Dec 20 08:14:48 try "-v playbin2" in the above command Dec 20 08:15:32 RobbieThe1st: here's the list of gstreamer packages I have: http://fpaste.org/aTTM/ Dec 20 08:15:41 RobbieThe1st: notice anything odd? Dec 20 08:15:57 Just try "-v playbin2" in the above command Dec 20 08:16:05 RobbieThe1st: that worked! Dec 20 08:16:13 That's what google turned up Dec 20 08:16:44 RobbieThe1st: now I need to figure out why it's not working in the media player application and when the phone rings. Dec 20 08:16:58 when the phone *should* ring Dec 20 08:17:28 I think the phone application takes control of the audio, IIRC Dec 20 08:17:47 DocScrutinizer would probably know more Dec 20 08:21:16 the phone app will not exactly take control of audio. Audio is controlled by alsaped AIUI Dec 20 08:22:35 if somebody messed up one of the related files (e.g. that mediaplayer control via wired headset button might do that) then you might get into weird trouble with audio Dec 20 08:24:42 generally speaking you'll get proper audio only if the right policy is "enforced" by PA/ALSA Policy Enforcer Entity/Daemon/whatever Dec 20 08:26:05 I guess the related file is /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf, maybe others as well Dec 20 08:26:54 for the firmware supplied on the N900, is master mode (for WiFi) supported? Dec 20 08:27:26 afaik not. otherwise I would imagine joikuspot etc would use it.. Dec 20 08:27:45 probably not. Othrwise you wouldn't need custom kernel for things like maemohotspot Dec 20 08:28:03 docscrutinizer, I think that's just because the standard kernel doesn't have nat etc Dec 20 08:28:05 is maemo hotspot suppose to support master mode? Dec 20 08:28:10 ds3, I think there is something in devel that makes it possible iirc. Dec 20 08:28:19 flux: good point Dec 20 08:28:23 ds3, yeah I think it's that one. Don't know if it works though. Dec 20 08:28:32 ds3, check tmo Dec 20 08:29:00 I though it did but my experiments with that software suggests otherwise Dec 20 08:29:08 thought Dec 20 08:30:42 I seem to have heard once that either hotspot or yoghurtsport is emulating an AP by exploiting Ad-Hoc modus Dec 20 08:31:18 always was a bit obscure to me. Anyway I'll shut up as I never used any such package Dec 20 08:31:56 Do we have iptables enough to setup nat forwarding on the N900 Dec 20 08:32:00 guess it is easier to hackup a cheap AP to run on batteries Dec 20 08:32:18 I don't think the default kernel has any NAT Dec 20 08:32:26 it hasn't Dec 20 08:32:39 Lame Dec 20 08:32:42 heh, so my hacked up slirp isn't a complete waste Dec 20 08:32:51 it's not a big deal to switch the kernel, though Dec 20 08:32:54 Can be compiled as a module at least I believe Dec 20 08:33:07 flux: speak for yourself :P Dec 20 08:33:36 alterego, one can do it from the package manager.. Dec 20 08:33:38 Until I get a second N900 my current one has to have a uboot kernel. Dec 20 08:34:29 not sure what NAT would be good for w/o a working master mode though Dec 20 08:34:50 for BT, slirp seems to do a great job Dec 20 08:34:51 Erm, routing through an adhoc connection? Dec 20 08:34:52 well, you could still use it with usb networking I suppose Dec 20 08:35:02 RobbieThe1st: thanks for your help. eventually, I got everything to work by doing "start pulseaudio" from the terminal as root. Dec 20 08:35:12 Ah, good. Dec 20 08:35:17 alterego: there are many drawbacks to that Dec 20 08:35:20 USB you can just use it as a modem Dec 20 08:35:22 RobbieThe1st: now I need to determine why it's no longer starting at boot Dec 20 08:35:38 ds3: besides single client only, I can't see any. Dec 20 08:35:51 I'd guess that the starting point there would be to enable logging Dec 20 08:36:02 alterego: power, lack of support on some devices... Dec 20 08:36:21 good moring Dec 20 08:36:23 power? Dec 20 08:36:25 morning* Dec 20 08:36:34 no power save mode with ad hoc Dec 20 08:36:34 Hey Termana Dec 20 08:36:40 Oh, rigt Dec 20 08:36:44 alterego, hi i did what you me and it worked just fine but the issue was that i could update my firmware using it Dec 20 08:36:47 Fair points Dec 20 08:37:01 Pradeep: oh dear :( Dec 20 08:37:03 wish more things had bluetooth then it would be simple Dec 20 08:37:23 Yeah appman woudln't work through usb silly me Dec 20 08:37:55 yes it i did not but i could surf the internet Dec 20 08:38:13 I'd flash it, then use the setup I told you about to download packages. Dec 20 08:39:15 so any clues Dec 20 08:39:19 otoh, it might be possible to trick the device into using your connection via usb instead of 3g Dec 20 08:40:27 Maybe by removing the ppp item from routes Dec 20 08:40:57 Well, gprs0 apparently Dec 20 08:41:36 Pradeep: Make sure the N900 is connected via cellular data, then connect with usb networking Dec 20 08:41:59 u mean gprs Dec 20 08:42:20 cos did that but still did not work Dec 20 08:42:39 Pradeep, you probably mean to talk with real words Dec 20 08:42:44 Then as root, on the N900 run: route del -net 0.0.0.0 gw 0.0.0.0 gprs0 Dec 20 08:43:31 Then run: route -n and make sure your LAN settings are still present. Dec 20 08:43:41 And appman should work Dec 20 08:43:45 would that affect my gprs setting when am not using my usb network Dec 20 08:44:23 Pradeep: nope Dec 20 08:44:56 Just disconnect and reconnect when you're done and it should work fine Dec 20 08:45:05 so when am on gprs i will have to re-route it again Dec 20 08:45:14 ok Dec 20 08:46:35 Yeah, keeping the cell data connection active is to trick the N900s network manager into continuing to believe its' got a normal connection to the internet. So any apps (like app man) that use bearer services apis will hopefully continue to work. Dec 20 08:46:36 this sounds lame how do you refer to someone on xchat using the phone cos on PC i press tab button twice Dec 20 08:46:51 I use irssi Dec 20 08:47:06 ok Dec 20 08:47:18 I should probably get out of bed and shower. Dec 20 08:47:26 It's quarter to 9 .. Dec 20 08:47:39 same here Dec 20 08:47:48 bbl Dec 20 08:48:10 would try it and get back to you Dec 20 08:48:13 thanks Dec 20 08:55:19 [2010-12-20 08:55:23] Pradeep: Dec 20 08:55:20 [2010-12-20 08:55:29] ~usb-networking Dec 20 08:55:22 [ Dec 20 08:55:30 [2010-12-20 08:57:31] even http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications Dec 20 08:55:37 :-S Dec 20 08:57:38 Is the search box broken on tmo? Dec 20 08:58:44 I toldya do not touch tmo Dec 20 08:58:52 * DocScrutinizer hits Termana with a pillow Dec 20 08:58:55 :p Dec 20 08:59:42 I'm just wondering - what reasonable explanation is there for SO MANY duplicate threads besides the search box being broken? :p Dec 20 09:26:11 morning everybody Dec 20 09:31:52 Heh ... the n900 happily sees all of /dev/mmcblk0p1-3 after having rewritten the partition table using, and windows happily reads /dev/mmcblk0p1 as fat32, but ubuntu sees only an unpartitioned disk Dec 20 09:32:32 tealbird: oops Dec 20 09:33:20 tealbird: check for that's not the uSD you see in ubuntu Dec 20 09:33:30 I took out the uSD Dec 20 09:33:45 weird Dec 20 09:34:47 As I said, windows sees the MyDocs partition just fine, so I'm guessing there's something "unexpected" but I dunno how to fix that exactly. I don't know very much about how the usb mass storage gadget driver does whatever it does. Dec 20 09:34:49 check syslog, for usb-host msgs and udev et al. There should be sdX1, sdX2... Dec 20 09:34:53 re Dec 20 09:35:10 Morning Dec 20 09:35:30 khertan: morning! Dec 20 09:43:48 tealbird: for reference (syslog of PC) http://paste.debian.net/102814/ Dec 20 09:45:34 tealbird: maybe your primary FAT got destroyed, and ubuntu doesn't know how to use the secondary Dec 20 09:46:09 you might want to run a fsck.vfat on it Dec 20 09:47:54 I did that several times outside of maemo, but sure I could try it again Dec 20 09:48:02 It doesn't see any partition at all Dec 20 09:49:31 Maybe later I'll try restoring the partition table again, but I don't want to do it until I have proper backups Dec 20 09:49:45 The irony being I was prepping to set up nightly backups when this happened Dec 20 09:52:13 Morning, all Dec 20 10:20:44 morning ja Dec 20 10:20:46 ffa Dec 20 10:26:45 hi Jaffa Dec 20 10:28:09 * pupnik sighs Dec 20 10:37:39 MohammadAG, how's the media player going? Dec 20 10:38:20 I'm not sure which part I told you about last, but nicolai got the renderer working Dec 20 10:38:27 renderer? Dec 20 10:38:55 it can play/stop songs, and skip/go back, it also updates metadata (but not albumart) Dec 20 10:39:02 mafw renderer Dec 20 10:39:20 nice Dec 20 10:39:27 native interface? Dbus? GObject? Dec 20 10:39:51 Qt wrapper he made Dec 20 10:40:02 which calls? Dec 20 10:40:14 GObject code Dec 20 10:40:20 cool Dec 20 10:40:23 what's your email? Dec 20 10:40:36 firstname.lastname@gmail.com Dec 20 10:40:59 you have it in your gmail Dec 20 10:41:10 LOL @ your IRC realname Dec 20 10:41:40 heh :) Dec 20 10:43:57 I'm temped... mailto:firstname.lastname@gmail.com Dec 20 10:45:04 crap firstname.lastname is not available, but the following usernames are Dec 20 10:49:50 seemed longer Dec 20 10:49:54 oops Dec 20 10:51:19 * MohammadAG stabs gmail on the N900 Dec 20 10:51:38 MohammadAG: which gmail? Dec 20 10:51:48 /x, /h, ?ui=2 ? Dec 20 10:51:58 mfe? imap? pop? Dec 20 10:52:07 browser Dec 20 10:57:38 ok, /x, /h, or ?ui=2 ? Dec 20 10:57:56 html Dec 20 10:58:10 https://mail.google.com/mail/h/ ? Dec 20 10:58:20 https://mail.google.com/mail/x/ ? Dec 20 10:58:38 https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2 ? Dec 20 10:58:47 oh nice, it got sent without a confirmation Dec 20 10:58:53 * MohammadAG clicks links Dec 20 11:00:30 x and ui=2 load the same page for me Dec 20 11:01:30 /h is fine Dec 20 11:02:05 /x is mobile, pass Dec 20 11:04:58 there used to be a ui=1, but google killed it :( Dec 20 11:09:05 crashanddie, check your email Dec 20 11:14:45 there are many people from europe here, right? sorry if that sounds offtopic, but is there a specific channel for switzerland and its whereabouts? Dec 20 11:15:45 ptl? I am sure therers many specific switzerland channels on irc, but what need is there specifically for maemo? Dec 20 11:16:31 * timeless_mbp suspects most of the awake people here atm are in europe... Dec 20 11:16:58 switzerland of course is composed of 4 language groups Dec 20 11:17:05 which makes asking about it vaguely amusing Dec 20 11:17:08 lcuk: no need, I was just trying to see if there's one on freenode :) Dec 20 11:17:09 (that doesn't count English...) Dec 20 11:17:23 lol Dec 20 11:17:30 ptl, so you meant a general swizz people channel, not just about maemo? Dec 20 11:17:37 yes. Ok, offtopic Dec 20 11:17:53 ptl ahhh heh Dec 20 11:18:00 http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23wilug&net=freenode perhaps Dec 20 11:18:10 freenode irc is mostly for open source projects Dec 20 11:18:15 I know. Dec 20 11:18:43 There are a few channels like #australia though. I just wondered if there was one for switzerland. Dec 20 11:19:38 * lcuk giggles Dec 20 11:20:00 theres a #swissknife-router channel Dec 20 11:20:12 and #swisslinux chan Dec 20 11:20:23 use the channel search from your irc client Dec 20 11:22:04 I did... found nothing of interest, and found swisslinux. But thanks :) Dec 20 11:38:45 timeless_mbp: 4 languages? Dec 20 11:39:15 yea, french, german, italian, and one other Dec 20 11:39:23 it's part of the trivia you pick up when you travel there Dec 20 11:39:42 timeless_mbp: the one other I'm curious Dec 20 11:39:50 Romansh Dec 20 11:40:55 ah... Dec 20 11:41:06 but that does not really count.. Dec 20 11:42:02 hey Dec 20 11:55:25 swizzerdutsch Dec 20 11:57:41 I'd say it's as much german as netherlands is Dec 20 11:59:06 dutch is actually very intelligible if you know German Dec 20 12:04:50 well, this only proves a 50 years aren't enough to learn German then Dec 20 12:04:58 :-D Dec 20 12:17:19 * RST38h yawns Dec 20 12:18:17 moaning RST38h Dec 20 12:19:50 moaning indeed Dec 20 12:20:47 WAAAH, simple brightness applet doesn't anything on actual brightness control of screen, just a frontend to hildon/osso/whatever brighness management :-S I hoped I could patch it to better deal with ALS etc, but no... Dec 20 12:21:00 or am I wrong? Dec 20 12:21:53 it is a frontend afaik Dec 20 12:22:47 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 36952 2010-05-11 14:56 /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so Dec 20 12:22:48 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 30772 2010-05-11 14:56 /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-simple.so Dec 20 12:23:00 any source for that ? Dec 20 12:23:10 abomination Dec 20 12:26:35 let me guess... err, maybe... just... NO WAY, it's fsckng mce >:-( Dec 20 12:30:28 DocScrutinizer, I'll ask again, mce rewrite? :) Dec 20 12:30:43 MEH been there months ago - just forgot :-/ http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=568585#post568585 Dec 20 12:31:43 MohammadAG: ^^^ that's also holding the answer for you, starting with ""Its interface with everything else..." Dec 20 12:33:00 Doc: Better times, when Matan was still sane! Dec 20 12:33:25 DocScrutinizer, so? we can rewrite it Dec 20 12:33:50 sure we *can* Dec 20 12:34:59 just I feel like punched in my face to learn I need to rewrite mce just to deal with a fubar function of converting ALS to a proper LCD BL level Dec 20 12:35:50 you know, rewriting it would be a contribution to MeeGo :P Dec 20 12:36:48 sure I could comment out libfilter-brightness-simple.so and libfilter-brightness-als.so form mce/mce.ini, but then probably no automatic screenlock, no manual screenlock, no wakeup on inbound calls, etc etc etc Dec 20 12:38:34 MohammadAG: oh, so I shouldn't talk about it. I don't feel like poaching in their woods. I bet they have some better idea, and as usual don't like to share it or at least ponder about mine Dec 20 12:38:54 public transports just quit for today... Dec 20 12:39:32 yeah :-/ Dec 20 12:39:43 DocScrutinizer, what if we rewrite it and make it work on M5 only, for the fun of it :P Dec 20 12:39:58 nice idea Dec 20 12:40:36 then add a nice ifdef Meego, return 1; Dec 20 12:40:42 or I could simply change to SHR completely, and implement it as a FSO plugin Dec 20 12:41:23 I wonder how lux is detected Dec 20 12:41:30 ? Dec 20 12:42:06 by ALS? what was the question? Dec 20 12:43:06 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0029/lux Dec 20 12:43:19 "ifdef Meego, return 1;" hahahaah Dec 20 12:43:33 L3/4 has a very icky instruction on how to calibrate ALS, by writing some factors to CAL Dec 20 12:43:51 ehh... Dec 20 12:43:54 * MohammadAG stabs the shit out of cal Dec 20 12:44:11 MohammadAG, nice Dec 20 12:45:31 RST38h, http://gizmodo.com/5715128/nokia-building-windows-phone-7-cellphones-if-not-they-should Dec 20 12:45:46 MohammadAG: I know this /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0029/lux, but what was your question? Dec 20 12:46:39 DocScrutinizer, I was asking about it Dec 20 12:46:42 DocScrutinizer: unrelated question, how the hell is it possible to deal with C code that casts back and forth between int and pointer types? Dec 20 12:46:58 DocScrutinizer: I've just realized that such code will never work on x86_64 Dec 20 12:48:04 Venemo: intptr_t / uintptr_t Dec 20 12:48:07 so that's the reason it is deprecated to cast if you don't know *exactly* what and why Dec 20 12:48:12 DocScrutinizer: what are you trying to do with als? Dec 20 12:48:19 Venemo, why not? Dec 20 12:48:31 DocScrutinizer: tell this to the developers of libmatchbox2 Dec 20 12:48:41 Venemo: it will work if it's written properly Dec 20 12:48:53 jacekowski: I want a better backlight regulation, the current one is a major pita Dec 20 12:49:01 WFM Dec 20 12:49:07 crashanddie: because what if the OS allocates you a piece of memory in an address that won't fit in a 32-bit integer? Dec 20 12:49:17 Choom: yeah, that should be it Dec 20 12:49:22 Venemo: nope Dec 20 12:49:31 jacekowski, really? is sizeof(int*) always == sizeof(int) Dec 20 12:49:36 Venemo: variables are allocated on stack by program itself Dec 20 12:49:37 no lcuk Dec 20 12:49:53 or to registers Dec 20 12:50:06 Choom: well, but you assume that it's stack Dec 20 12:50:12 jacekowski: what if someone calls calloc? that isn't guaranteed to fit in the 32-bit boundary? Dec 20 12:50:16 jacekowski: lags like 20s, and has at best 4 levels and switching between them rather at random Dec 20 12:50:24 lcuk: int is 32-bit, whereas int* is 64-bit on x86_64 Dec 20 12:50:39 I can make no assumptions about stuff that standards don't define Dec 20 12:50:56 Choom: standards define that variables are allocated on stack Dec 20 12:51:17 Venemo, the construct is common however (I have done it myself) Dec 20 12:51:21 although I do make some, such as that the target system has a flat memory model Dec 20 12:51:27 with us using 32bit for so long lapses occur Dec 20 12:51:56 Venemo: well, are we talking about 64 bit program on 64 bit platform Dec 20 12:52:02 Venemo: or 32bit on 64 bit platform Dec 20 12:52:03 Venemo, #if __LP64__ Dec 20 12:52:07 jacekowski: some architectures may not even have stacks Dec 20 12:52:18 just like others don't have heaps Dec 20 12:52:31 crashanddie, ewww Dec 20 12:52:39 Choom: well, that's what C89 and C99 says Dec 20 12:52:43 better to just actually define variables and memory correctly Dec 20 12:52:47 lcuk, I'm not the one casting from ints to pointers :P Dec 20 12:52:53 though I do make certain assumptions Dec 20 12:53:02 Anyone here owned an OQO? :p Dec 20 12:53:08 Or owns Dec 20 12:53:10 and don't really care about implementations where those don't work Dec 20 12:53:25 all my code assumes that the target implementation has a flat memory model Dec 20 12:53:38 all my code assums that the target implementation has a stack which is thread safe Dec 20 12:53:53 WHY would you want to cast a pointer to an int first instance?? Dec 20 12:54:08 I don't want to Dec 20 12:54:15 Choom: hmm, hmm, ARM Dec 20 12:54:17 DocScrutinizer, because he doesn't know you can do pointer++ Dec 20 12:54:27 * Venemo sighs Dec 20 12:54:27 that works? Dec 20 12:54:36 toggles, of course Dec 20 12:54:39 I'd like to compile libmatchbox2 Dec 20 12:54:39 jacekowski: ARM validates both Dec 20 12:55:07 the memory model is flat even if it can have holes Dec 20 12:55:10 Choom: well, i can't think of any other architecture that's popular and does both Dec 20 12:55:11 DocScrutinizer: I'd like to compile libmatchbox2, which is full of this. I'm not sure what are their reasons. Dec 20 12:55:26 no reasons, just gasheads Dec 20 12:55:31 x86 is only emulating flat memory model Dec 20 12:55:33 jacekowski: ia32, amd64 Dec 20 12:55:33 toggles, char * foo = "this is a string"; foo += 8; printf("5s\n", foo); // prints "a string" Dec 20 12:55:53 s/5s/%s/ Dec 20 12:55:54 crashanddie meant: toggles, char * foo = "this is a string"; foo += 8; printf("%s\n", foo); // prints "a string" Dec 20 12:56:04 crashanddie: yes, I know pointer arithmetics Dec 20 12:56:27 Venemo, I'm sure you do, I was just going for the funnies Dec 20 12:57:02 crashanddie: see line 34 in http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/libmatchbox2/blobs/master/matchbox/client-types/mb-wm-client-override.c Dec 20 12:57:57 Venemo, thats inverse casting and the function expects a pointer so it gets one Dec 20 12:58:09 pass by reference Dec 20 12:58:13 that's just one place of many. Dec 20 12:58:23 anyway, regarding the question why anyone would cast a pointer to an int Dec 20 12:58:26 jacekowski, thats not by ref though Dec 20 12:58:29 thats casted to void* Dec 20 12:58:35 well, pointer Dec 20 12:58:51 Choom, because the api might only have int parameters Dec 20 12:58:53 let me just take a look at that code Dec 20 12:59:04 and "it works" on many platforms for the last 15 years Dec 20 12:59:21 personally I do it quite often in pthread_create(), pthread_cleanup_push(), and pthread_exit() when the only thing I want to pass is an integer (such as a file descriptor) Dec 20 12:59:27 lcuk: btw. have you ever written off a car? Dec 20 12:59:45 lcuk: dvla is chasing me for road tax + fines for car i don't have anymore Dec 20 13:00:00 Venemo, what does flags contain? Dec 20 13:00:08 crashanddie: I've no idea Dec 20 13:00:10 then perhaps you should have filled in your SORN declaration Dec 20 13:00:21 lcuk: i can't SORN it if i don't own it Dec 20 13:00:22 no, I haven't though, I tend to trade in Dec 20 13:00:26 Venemo, you probably just want to pass (void *) &flags Dec 20 13:00:29 you should have when you had it Dec 20 13:00:41 Choom, c&d is right Dec 20 13:00:47 crashanddie: I don't think so. Dec 20 13:00:51 lcuk: when i had it it still had valid tax Dec 20 13:01:00 Venemo, why not? Dec 20 13:01:14 jacekowski, so? it went off the road, you should have declared it, pay up. Dec 20 13:01:17 * lcuk shrugs Dec 20 13:01:18 crashanddie: remember that this code is working on your N900. if they had made such a big mistake, it wouldn't work Dec 20 13:01:29 I rather think this is some "clever" hack... Dec 20 13:01:42 lcuk: sorn is only valid for a year Dec 20 13:01:49 Venemo, oh, right, sorry, thought this was your code Dec 20 13:01:54 lcuk: so i would have to keep declaring it sorn every 12 months Dec 20 13:02:01 lcuk: it doesn't really work on implementations where sizeof(int) < sizeof(void *) Dec 20 13:02:08 crashanddie: as I said, I just want to compile this shit on x86_64. Dec 20 13:02:14 jacekowski, well you know more than me now so you can follow those rules better, i am not here to discuss cars anyway Dec 20 13:02:17 * lardman sees more snow Dec 20 13:02:18 you need to rely on intptr_t on thise systems, if available Dec 20 13:02:34 Venemo, just compile and run as 32bit mate Dec 20 13:02:34 and that's not as uncommon as you might think Dec 20 13:02:43 crashanddie: hehe... :D Dec 20 13:02:56 by default, sizeof(int) is 4 on gcc whereas sizeof(void *) is 8 on amd64 Dec 20 13:02:56 Choom, if you pass a variable using address of as a pointer, then the size of the data is not important Dec 20 13:02:56 crashanddie: how can I tell make to compile for 32bit? Dec 20 13:02:58 lardman: just dug out my car to do it in about 45mins again! Dec 20 13:03:15 the only fsck up is if you try to pass a pointer into a variable that is only an int Dec 20 13:03:18 harsh, no chance I can even get my car out Dec 20 13:03:21 as already reiterated many times Dec 20 13:03:31 Venemo, -m32 Dec 20 13:03:41 lcuk: yes but that defeats the point of passing an integer as a pointer, which provides you with thread safety, among other things Dec 20 13:03:43 crashanddie, thx Dec 20 13:03:45 Venemo, though that means you'll need all the 32 bit libraries and headers Dec 20 13:03:53 Choom: seems that it doesn't recognize intptr_t Dec 20 13:03:54 Choom, ? huh Dec 20 13:04:00 i.e.: you can change the original value without worrying about the function that you just passed it to Dec 20 13:04:05 Venemo, it's probably easier to build a quick dchroot in 32bit, takes about 100MB to get a full debian etch 32-bit Dec 20 13:04:39 Doc: Either Eldar is talking out of his glory hole (more likely) or Elop is mad (less likely) Dec 20 13:04:41 Choom: just because somebody else is changing the value from a different thread doesn't make it "safe" Dec 20 13:04:42 Venemo, I use dchroot daily to build 64-bit and 32-bit versions of my server, plus I get the added bonus that I use "older" libs so it's compatible with nearly every version of linux running at our customer's site Dec 20 13:04:43 Venemo, make a patch fixing the 32/64bitness Dec 20 13:04:47 it's one way to avoid unnecessary memory alocations when the function expects a void * Dec 20 13:04:59 i had to do it when kot was building liqbase onto his 64b system Dec 20 13:05:16 Robot101: doesn't even need to be from a different thread, the value can be changed locally Dec 20 13:05:22 crashanddie, nice :) Dec 20 13:05:40 see pthread_cleanup_push() / pthread_cleanup_pop() as an example Dec 20 13:05:44 well I think I'll just change int to long for this delegate type, that shoul solve it Dec 20 13:05:54 although I dunno how it'll compile on x86 then... Dec 20 13:06:04 probably it won't Dec 20 13:06:09 Venemo: use intptr_t / uintptr_t if available from Dec 20 13:06:16 Choom: ok, will try Dec 20 13:06:20 or was it ? Dec 20 13:06:24 can't recall :P Dec 20 13:06:51 it's the latter Dec 20 13:07:43 Choom: the problem is, that this shit is defined as typedef void (*MBWMClientStackMethod) (MBWindowManagerClient *client, int flags); Dec 20 13:07:59 it doesn't really matter what it's defined to Dec 20 13:08:02 it's an integer Dec 20 13:08:14 and you can safely store void * into it Dec 20 13:08:34 Choom: instances of this type get assigned from all over the code with functions that also accept an int, so I'll have to change those too Dec 20 13:09:36 can't you use the proprocessor to make magic happen? Dec 20 13:10:39 Choom: hm, maybe... Dec 20 13:11:35 lots of apps need patching to handle differences in 32/64bit building. hows and complexity change depending on the codebase. Dec 20 13:12:17 yeah... Dec 20 13:12:23 Mexican surveillance drone crashed in the US =) Dec 20 13:13:10 RST38h, chili beans scattered over a wide area? Dec 20 13:13:42 lcuk: DHS is not disclosing information about the weaponry =) Dec 20 13:13:50 Choom: no, I can't use the preprocessor for this Dec 20 13:17:15 how do you make screenshot on n90 Dec 20 13:17:17 n900 Dec 20 13:17:33 ctrl+sym+p Dec 20 13:17:34 ? Dec 20 13:17:46 shift-ctl-p Dec 20 13:17:47 ctrl+shift+p Dec 20 13:19:28 RST38h: that's been to me, about eldar and elop? Dec 20 13:23:00 Doc: yes Dec 20 13:23:24 sorry, no highlight anymore on doc: Dec 20 13:23:38 also nfc what you're talking about Dec 20 13:23:42 * RST38h has not got any highlights at all Dec 20 13:24:02 Doc: About this: RST38h, http://gizmodo.com/5715128/nokia-building-windows-phone-7 Dec 20 13:24:15 I can now see it has come from MohammadAG though, ,so sorry :) Dec 20 13:24:35 nah, after changing the stuff to intptr_t, it is now able to compile :) Dec 20 13:28:07 thx Choom for the idea Dec 20 13:28:14 np Dec 20 13:29:17 bah! Dec 20 13:29:25 I make install'd this shit Dec 20 13:29:40 and it installed itself to /usr/local/lib instead of /usr/lib64 Dec 20 13:30:40 it's usually a symbolic link Dec 20 13:31:00 and if it uses autoconf, a --prefix=/usr should solve it Dec 20 13:31:02 but it is not in /usr/lib64 at all. Dec 20 13:31:22 which means, pkg-config can't find it Dec 20 13:31:36 ./configure --prefix=/usr Dec 20 13:31:46 if it's an autotools setup Dec 20 13:31:50 it is Dec 20 13:32:18 autoconf defaults to /usr/local Dec 20 13:32:42 hm Dec 20 13:32:57 for some reason, ./configure screws up the makefile Dec 20 13:33:34 I have to manually edit a line and put a tab instead of spaces... Dec 20 13:34:09 okay Dec 20 13:34:20 now it went to /usr/lib, still not /usr/lib64 Dec 20 13:34:31 on my system it's a symbolic link Dec 20 13:34:41 /usr/lib links to /usr/lib64 Dec 20 13:34:54 which should be the case everywhere Dec 20 13:35:16 well in here it seems that /usr/lib64 contains the 64-bit libs and /usr/lib the 32-bit ones Dec 20 14:10:49 is there a command to clean up all the garbage generated by autotools? Dec 20 14:11:03 rm Dec 20 14:11:08 LOL Dec 20 14:15:58 lcuk: :) Dec 20 14:34:55 any 'destructive' ideas why my bluetooth headset has lots of stuttering when i make calls. the same headset works fin on a nokia 6300. Dec 20 15:03:31 roadi, the n900 sucks at bluetooth Dec 20 15:09:59 crashanddie, it doesn't suck just give a low priority to it Dec 20 15:10:02 that sounds hard. Dec 20 15:10:25 connecting with other devices works very well. Dec 20 15:31:29 Etherpad apparently hates GPRS this morning. Dec 20 15:36:57 guys how do you capture the cell-id sent from the BTS?? Dec 20 15:39:11 I need a way to see that info :/ Dec 20 15:53:13 xenno: umm Dec 20 15:53:25 xenno: netmon Dec 20 15:53:47 http://maemo.org/packages/view/netmon/ Dec 20 15:53:56 the amount of data available is very limited Dec 20 15:54:12 Displays Signal Strength in dBm, Cell ID, LAC, RNC, Network Code, etc. Dec 20 15:54:47 Thank u so much :D Dec 20 16:00:59 this will probably not capture the cell-id from the other mobile device :/ Dec 20 16:01:10 What other mobile device Dec 20 16:01:26 It certainly will not capture any info about other mobiles, no. Dec 20 16:01:33 I mean for incoming calls Dec 20 16:01:44 what? Dec 20 16:01:53 what do you mean by cell-id Dec 20 16:02:34 the cell-id is used for location Dec 20 16:02:52 I want to know where the person is calling from :/ Dec 20 16:03:46 yeah that would be... not necessary to send, and a privacy violation :P Dec 20 16:04:22 That will never be available even over the air Dec 20 16:04:36 If you snooped it. Dec 20 16:04:51 The cell network has no reason to send it to you, and as I understand it, doesn't/. Dec 20 16:06:01 yeah it's probably stored in the visitor location register :/ Dec 20 16:06:27 Anyway - this is all irrelevant for the n900 Dec 20 16:06:41 you have only access to the very small amount of info the modem hands out. Dec 20 16:06:55 You get no 'raw' access to the signal at all, and the modem is closed-source Dec 20 16:07:22 * MohammadAG wonders what could happen if it was OSS Dec 20 16:07:37 MohammadAG: Various unfortunate things. Dec 20 16:07:51 it would never be approved by the FCC/CE/etc. Dec 20 16:07:53 MohammadAG: The GSM netwok was not really designed to be secure from hackers. Dec 20 16:08:24 I mean - sure - the call setup and billing parts and authorisation parts are encrypted Dec 20 16:08:45 but the signalling isn't. Dec 20 16:09:14 Also - you have the fun possibility of users deciding to do 'direct' free calls between phones, for data. Dec 20 16:09:33 This can wipe out emergency calls in progress on that channel over a radius of 15km Dec 20 16:10:04 http://www.rdc.cz/en/publications/publications/1569131953(2).pdf Dec 20 16:10:40 shows that it's actually possible to get the cell-id Dec 20 16:11:24 xenno: No. Dec 20 16:11:52 xenno: It shows it's possible to get teh cell-id if you are plugged into the wired-side of the mobile network. Dec 20 16:12:00 Not the wireless side Dec 20 16:16:29 I can't find where it says that this only works on wired connections?? Dec 20 16:17:20 page 2, 3, para 2 Dec 20 16:17:29 ... signalling board Dec 20 16:21:16 Also - the n900 is useless - due to not having raw interfaces, you'd need something like http://openbsc.osmocom.org/trac/ or http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ Dec 20 16:21:32 neither of which will do what you want either Dec 20 16:21:50 without connecting to the wired side Dec 20 16:24:05 Well it was worth a shot :/ Dec 20 16:24:19 But I did learn very much Dec 20 16:25:26 Now I actually know how a gsm network interface looks like XD Dec 20 16:26:57 it actually all started because someone was calling with a hidden number :/ Dec 20 16:29:24 Venemo, not my topic Dec 20 16:29:37 ok lcuk Dec 20 16:54:58 wa Dec 20 16:55:19 oops, sorry, I thought I was in vim ... Dec 20 16:56:22 don't they say that irc is just a multiplayer notepad? Dec 20 17:01:02 any volunters to package correctly git on fremantle for n900 ? Dec 20 17:02:10 i ended up hand-archiving .debs :/ Dec 20 17:25:02 hmm, CLIP/CLIR is managed in last exchange, prior to last mile to end user (in GSM that would be OTA and last exchange the BTS of callee). I honestly wonder if there's not any secret code you could send to your BTS, to override the BTS suppressing the caller's ID Dec 20 17:26:24 well, maybe I'm also wrong with my notion about what is 'last exchange' in context of a cellular network Dec 20 17:30:14 Hi ... i got a problem with the autobuilder for diablo target : Dec 20 17:30:14 dpkg-buildpackage: maemo-optify-deb not found, not optifying. Dec 20 17:30:29 parsechangelog/debian: error: badly formatted trailer line, at file debian/changelog line 5 Dec 20 17:30:29 dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is Dec 20 17:30:40 funny is that it s work for fremantle Dec 20 17:30:57 ahh no sorry. Now I recall. It seems all interchange standards define a true caller ID plus an effective caller ID comparable to display name of mails or SIP. While the true caller ID isn't usually forwarded to terminating user equipment (except for authorities like police), the display name always is, but can be any arbitrary crap like "*unknown*" or even ascii or "911" Dec 20 17:40:11 GAN900, still haven't received the thingy Dec 20 17:40:18 GAN900, ONLY 4 BLOODY DAYS TO GO :( Dec 20 17:45:17 crashanddie: what are you waiting for? Dec 20 17:45:26 kindle, gift for the gf Dec 20 17:45:44 ah, so Amazon are having troubles over there too Dec 20 17:45:50 no, GAN sent it for me Dec 20 17:45:55 oh right Dec 20 17:46:03 cuz Amazon only sent kindles worldwide starting january Dec 20 17:46:08 crashanddie: Many people are really anoying their local small bookstores by going in and asking for kindles. Dec 20 17:46:09 they kept the stock for US-americans Dec 20 17:46:21 (the few remaining) Dec 20 17:46:30 oh, I've seen them for sale here for ages, are they not shipping till Jan then? Dec 20 17:46:35 SpeedEvil, GAN works at a bookstore, he keeps getting asked about the Kindle :P Dec 20 17:46:48 WTF?!  Dec 20 17:46:50 lardman, UK yes Dec 20 17:46:56 ok Dec 20 17:47:00 lardman, but UK doesn't ship the kindle to Europea Dec 20 17:47:19 nor does it ship people to anywhere via Heathrow it appears ;) Dec 20 17:47:55 so: amazon.co.uk sends Kindle to UK only; amazon.com takes orders worldwide but shows "ships early jan" for worldwide orders; amazon.com takes orders for US and shows "shipped within 24h" for US IP addresses Dec 20 17:48:09 and amazon.fr redirects to amazon.com Dec 20 17:48:15 I like the idea of the Kindle, but can't bring myself to pay full whack for books when I can buy them 2nd hand Dec 20 17:48:15 (for the kindle) Dec 20 17:48:26 lardman, most classics are free on Kindle Dec 20 17:48:30 I have a kindle Dec 20 17:48:40 A gift from someone. Dec 20 17:48:49 I use it less than I'd expected for books Dec 20 17:48:50 re amazon.com shipping world-wide, that's just for the Kindle is it? Dec 20 17:48:53 I use the n900 more Dec 20 17:48:54 lardman, yeah Dec 20 17:48:57 at least for fgiction Dec 20 17:49:00 drat! Dec 20 17:49:14 simply as with the n900 I don't have to worry about ambient lighting - and getting it right to read Dec 20 17:49:15 amazon.com is rather cheap compared to amazon.co.uk Dec 20 17:49:20 amazon.com would be committing economic suicide if they stopped shipping worldwide this time of year Dec 20 17:49:31 lardman, import tax can be hefty though, depending on the item Dec 20 17:49:45 I don't think it will let me buy stuff actually Dec 20 17:49:54 I get re-directed iirc Dec 20 17:49:58 nope Dec 20 17:49:58 Also - I have another objection to the kindle - why would I want another device that can do only one thing Dec 20 17:50:02 you can buy no problem Dec 20 17:50:21 lardman, I used to buy from .com from Oz and UK no problem Dec 20 17:50:21 but can't ship to outside the USA? Dec 20 17:50:30 oh right Dec 20 17:50:31 depends on the seller Dec 20 17:50:48 sometimes the seller/item only allows for US-sales, but Amazon's private sales are usually pretty open about that Dec 20 17:51:08 kindle would be good when going on holiday, but not sure how well it would withstand the sand, sun and sunscreen treatement Dec 20 17:51:24 crashanddie: I'll have to rekindle my US account then Dec 20 17:51:29 sun shouldn't be a problem Dec 20 17:51:38 sunscreen and sand on the other hand... Dec 20 17:51:41 not a good mix Dec 20 17:51:44 and salty water Dec 20 17:51:58 next step, waterproof kindle for beach use :) Dec 20 17:52:06 well, there's a waterproof bag for it Dec 20 17:52:12 :D Dec 20 17:52:16 underwater reading Dec 20 17:52:18 haha Dec 20 17:52:37 I wonder if whispernet works underwater... you could wikipedia the fish you see in real time Dec 20 17:53:16 basically, I bought the kindle for my gf because she spends about $100 on books every month Dec 20 17:53:44 And she has a bag filled with books with her constantly Dec 20 17:53:53 crashanddie: not in salty water, hf is not happy Dec 20 17:54:06 HF? Dec 20 17:54:11 high frequency Dec 20 17:54:13 holy-friend? Dec 20 17:54:15 oh Dec 20 17:54:30 anyway Dec 20 17:54:35 $100! Dec 20 17:54:38 if GAN comes back, tell him I'm commuting home Dec 20 17:54:46 that's impressive, tell her to go to the 2nd hand markets Dec 20 17:54:52  apple ##conspiracy Dec 20 17:54:53 she can't Dec 20 17:55:08 why not? Dec 20 17:55:17 lardman, she's doing a masters in English Lit, not many English books in 2nd hand shops in the area Dec 20 17:55:27 ah, that could be a problem Dec 20 17:55:47 well we could establish parcels to Europe ;0] Dec 20 17:55:59 hmm, not sure what that smiley means, typo Dec 20 17:56:14 And her memoire is about the relation between Biological Decoding and Heterologies... not the kind of stuff you find in 2nd hand bookstores anyway Dec 20 17:56:27 amazon marketplace? Dec 20 17:56:38 so we come back to Amazon, so Kindle :) Dec 20 17:56:57 lardman: Is that where you go to buy half-busty ladies? Dec 20 17:56:59 told you, my logic is foolproof Dec 20 17:57:09 yeah but market place is ~ £2.50 shipping + £0.01 for the book, vs £6.99+ brand new Dec 20 17:57:18 Well - not all books are available on kindle alas. Dec 20 17:57:22 lardman, again, most classics are free on Kindle Dec 20 17:57:29 ah Dec 20 17:57:34 crashanddie, so, now instead of a couple of books she can throw in a bag and not worry about Dec 20 17:57:41 crashanddie: ok, so we've come full circle :) Dec 20 17:57:50 SpeedEvil: only half-busty?! Dec 20 17:57:50 she has to keep a couple of books (cos not everything is digital) as well as electronic thing Dec 20 17:58:07 + charger Dec 20 17:58:10 ;) Dec 20 17:58:17 lardman, 1month battery, no need for charger ;) Dec 20 17:58:19 though they last a long while don't they? Dec 20 17:58:31 SpeedEvil, half busty? would that be horizontal or vertical halving? Dec 20 17:58:38 lcuk, well, instead of a good dozen books in her bag, she can take a couple books plus a very small book (I got her the leather casing for the kindle) Dec 20 17:58:58 where does need to carry a dozen books to all the time? Dec 20 17:59:00 for text books it might be useful Dec 20 17:59:12 lcuk: you'd hope you can scan in any paperbook to pdf and use that in a ebook-reader Dec 20 17:59:32 lcuk, so it's really not bigger than a paperback, and a lot thinner + added advantage of PDF support Dec 20 17:59:40 DocScrutinizer, if you have to do that mannually yourself and open eery page Dec 20 17:59:44 you are kinda dfeating purpose Dec 20 17:59:58 break the binding and use page feeder Dec 20 18:00:04 but then your book is dead Dec 20 18:00:09 Anyway, if she doesn't use the Kindle, I'll nick it. Dec 20 18:00:14 meh, 400p = 200 scans = 50min Dec 20 18:00:25 worth it in my book, for my books Dec 20 18:00:44 I'd pay someone a fiver so I didnt' have to do that Dec 20 18:01:00 DocScrutinizer, 15 seconds per scan? That's optimistic Dec 20 18:01:11 really? Dec 20 18:01:19 with my scanner it is :D Dec 20 18:01:20 yeah last book I scanned took probably 20s/page Dec 20 18:01:32 more like 45s with my scanner :D Dec 20 18:01:32 i got it to 18.5s/page Dec 20 18:01:34 exponential slow down towards the end of the book Dec 20 18:01:36 … Dec 20 18:01:46 anyway Dec 20 18:01:48 But you can watch TV at the same time as scaning Dec 20 18:01:49 why on earth would you scan a book? Dec 20 18:01:58 tell GAN i'll be back online in a bit if he comes back Dec 20 18:01:59 'later Dec 20 18:01:59 crashanddie: yep I'll tell him, enjoy the trip home Dec 20 18:02:00 same reason I print out irc Dec 20 18:02:37 :-P Dec 20 18:02:38 luke-jr: because the British Library will only lend it to you once and you've not finished using it? Dec 20 18:02:58 lardman: wtf? Dec 20 18:03:04 lcuk: do you have a tickertape feed going so you can read irc? ;) Dec 20 18:03:04 because of g and higgs? Dec 20 18:03:15 lardman, :D Dec 20 18:03:27 feed some punch cards back in, quick! Dec 20 18:03:29 i put initials and scribble on it occasionally too Dec 20 18:03:37 lol Dec 20 18:03:39 and tear it off to make a point about something Dec 20 18:03:40 like "Wow" Dec 20 18:03:52 :D Dec 20 18:04:30 that is so appropriate (PSNR and all that) :) Dec 20 18:04:55 filtertips? Dec 20 18:04:56 /me really should find some motivation to finsih yesterday's MWKN after all the work done by GAN900 Dec 20 18:08:19 H*E*L*L!!!! Dec 20 18:08:25 ~nuke modest Dec 20 18:08:25 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at modest ... B☢☢M! Dec 20 18:09:30 would you believe there's not even an *option* in this shitty mailreader to never show html mails rendered? Dec 20 18:10:26 probably will even load embedded flash videos Dec 20 18:10:44 >:-( Dec 20 18:11:33 * lardman realises he left off the exclamation mark Dec 20 18:13:38 which dwarf has coded modest? Dec 20 18:13:53 sleepy Dec 20 18:14:01 or perhaps grumpy Dec 20 18:15:05 can anybody lend me a hand why my n900 is silent? i can't switch volume anymore Dec 20 18:15:16 umm Dec 20 18:15:43 check the Profile Dec 20 18:16:33 this seems to become increasingly contagious Dec 20 18:16:36 it is explicitly on loud Dec 20 18:16:47 and i am having my sounds on loud Dec 20 18:16:50 hooray for 1.3 Dec 20 18:16:56 i mean the volume being at 100% Dec 20 18:16:57 pfft 1.3 Dec 20 18:17:01 worksforme Dec 20 18:17:02 * luke-jr is already using 1.4 Dec 20 18:17:03 yet it is silent as a dead man Dec 20 18:17:07 in fact I've had no problems Dec 20 18:17:17 it just came up recently Dec 20 18:17:24 and it's so goddamn annoying Dec 20 18:17:28 * DocScrutinizer throws 1.5 at luke-jr Dec 20 18:17:30 i can't tell where the problem lies Dec 20 18:17:31 I can understand that Dec 20 18:18:03 mikki-kun: try plug&unplug headphone Dec 20 18:18:12 i am rebooting the phone Ö.ö Dec 20 18:18:23 the 6th time in under 15 mins Dec 20 18:19:02 and ? "sound restored 17%. ETA 5:49"? Dec 20 18:19:21 and in music player "cannot play media, media format not supported" Dec 20 18:19:38 the story just goes this is an mp3 which it played before without any problems Dec 20 18:19:42 for stuff that used to work too? Dec 20 18:19:50 that's odd Dec 20 18:19:50 search chanlog for similar wordings. Seems we got a "virus" somewhere in repo Dec 20 18:20:14 SpeedEvil has no sound, dunno who else Dec 20 18:20:26 several posts here OWTTE Dec 20 18:20:43 it is annoying as i use the n900 as well as a phone >.< Dec 20 18:21:33 well, until someone with enough free time reproduces the problem... Dec 20 18:21:41 I'd ping council about the issue. Really seems to spread Dec 20 18:21:54 test gst pipeline, test the mixer Dec 20 18:22:13 and whoever wrote sudo gainroot, get that damn autoscript generation off -.- Dec 20 18:22:25 i annoys me as i am still used to "sudo -i" Dec 20 18:22:29 err WUT? Dec 20 18:22:53 autoscript generation? Dec 20 18:23:04 sudo -i "cannot execute /bin/sh as user" Dec 20 18:23:08 sudo gainroot works Dec 20 18:23:13 mikki-kun: you can get sudo -s and sudo -i to work, just add your $SHELL to sudoers Dec 20 18:23:22 mikki-kun: that's messybox Dec 20 18:23:35 it generates /etc/sudoers itself?! Dec 20 18:24:27 mikki-kun: what's the problem with creating a proper entry to /etc/sudoers.d/* Dec 20 18:24:28 ? Dec 20 18:25:33 i thought only /etc/sudoers is for that Dec 20 18:25:47 if you add stuff to /etc/sudoers it won't be overwritten btw Dec 20 18:25:51 no, only /etc/sudoers.d/* is for that Dec 20 18:26:03 javispedro: it will be overwritten to some degree Dec 20 18:26:08 even after reboots it remembers it Dec 20 18:26:23 mikki-kun: put it outside of the ---- ----- blocks Dec 20 18:26:34 fix that idiocy called upate-sudoers! Dec 20 18:26:49 get recent version of sudo that supports include Dec 20 18:27:10 * javispedro would say that the issue is the system abusing something that is clearly designed for interactive use (sudo) Dec 20 18:27:32 and the fix would be policykit or yet another trendy *kit project Dec 20 18:27:36 that too Dec 20 18:28:05 probably somebody heard suid id evil :-P Dec 20 18:28:25 moin Dec 20 18:28:48 do you guys hear a "thump" you your head when watching this: http://i.imgur.com/E09Ud.gif Dec 20 18:30:17 well, maemo maintainers always excelled on creative usage of *nix standard tools and procedures Dec 20 18:30:48 *in your Dec 20 18:31:10 what is the process for pulse named? Dec 20 18:31:22 "pulseaudio" Dec 20 18:31:42 it isn't running Dec 20 18:31:53 then it's probably the same failure lardman got Dec 20 18:31:58 "use messybox, it's cute! what? no su anymore? so what, let's mess up sudo for it. Ok we also need a script let's call it gainroot... Now what is next to mess up?" Dec 20 18:32:00 not me Dec 20 18:32:31 lardman: did you fix it or I'm confusing things (again)? Dec 20 18:32:46 I was just suggesting what to look at Dec 20 18:32:56 I've not had the problem though Dec 20 18:32:58 i freaking hate pulse -.- Dec 20 18:33:00 why not alsa?! Dec 20 18:33:01 ah Dec 20 18:33:07 someone was having a problem with pulseaudio not starting Dec 20 18:33:08 check that flac lib Dec 20 18:33:25 hell, check all audio codec libs Dec 20 18:33:29 javispedro: i had that problem... Dec 20 18:33:45 manually unoptifying libflac did indeed help Dec 20 18:33:52 heh Dec 20 18:34:05 MohammadAG had it, a whole classroom full of people had it or still has it Dec 20 18:34:29 i talked to the libflac package maintainer about it, btw Dec 20 18:34:30 it's contagious Dec 20 18:34:31 BCMM: wanna guide me through the tutorial? Dec 20 18:35:01 ls -l /usr/lib/*FLAC* Dec 20 18:35:06 mikki-kun: can't remember exactly, but copy libflac8.so (or something like that) from opt to the main partition Dec 20 18:35:11 or sth like that Dec 20 18:35:32 from /opt/usr/lib/ to /usr/lib ? Dec 20 18:35:39 it mustn't be a symlink Dec 20 18:35:43 yes Dec 20 18:36:11 /opt/maemo/usr/lib if it was automatically optified Dec 20 18:36:23 (and it probably was, considering what is failing) Dec 20 18:36:34 ls -l /usr/lib/*flac* will tell Dec 20 18:36:42 my mind still doesn't understand how FLAC could cause pa to crash Dec 20 18:36:56 i talked the the guy that maintains the package, and we came to the conclusion that it was due to having upgraded to an unofficial version of something pulse links against Dec 20 18:37:05 if it's a symlink then move the file over the symlink location Dec 20 18:37:07 the official version doesn't link to libflac, the unofficial one does Dec 20 18:37:29 ah Dec 20 18:37:32 and it happened due to upgrading with apt-get, and thus being allowed to use non-nokia versions of stuff Dec 20 18:37:32 libsndfile maybe Dec 20 18:37:37 javispedro: i think so, yes Dec 20 18:37:39 javispedro: pa starts, tries to load libs, fails, segfaults Dec 20 18:37:58 if somebody could remind me if the path to the pulseaudio binary so i can run ldd on it, i could find out again Dec 20 18:38:10 but i believe it was libsndfile Dec 20 18:38:11 /usr/bin/pulseaudio .. Dec 20 18:38:27 actually Dec 20 18:38:30 haha for apt-get upgrade Dec 20 18:38:35 my desktop pulse seems to link with it too Dec 20 18:38:43 and libFLAC.so.8 =) Dec 20 18:39:20 [2010-12-20 19:33:21] ls -l /usr/lib/*FLAC* Dec 20 18:39:24 seems it isn't even installed! Dec 20 18:39:49 yeah, pretty sure it was sndfile Dec 20 18:40:14 javispedro: ah, got confused because of it having no execute permission for user Dec 20 18:40:16 [2010-12-20 19:31:44] hell, check all audio codec libs Dec 20 18:40:33 javispedro: it links to sndfile, which links to flac Dec 20 18:41:06 javispedro: in the default install, sndfile and PA don't link to libflac, which is a good thing because libflac isn't installed Dec 20 18:41:39 (the libflac package guy checked ldd pulseaudio on his device) Dec 20 18:41:52 ~lart maintainer for breaking dependencies Dec 20 18:41:52 * infobot breaks out the Hoover and sucks up maintainer for breaking dependencies Dec 20 18:42:21 * javispedro goes lookup who is the author of the upgraded libsndfile Dec 20 18:42:22 well, i asked the guy because i was going to file a bug, but now i haven't a clue who's fault it is Dec 20 18:42:29 apart from mine for upgrading with apt-get Dec 20 18:42:51 and ofc the fault of whoever invented the weirdo partitioning scheme Dec 20 18:43:05 ~optification Dec 20 18:43:05 from memory, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Dec 20 18:43:08 oh, aapo. Dec 20 18:43:10 :( Dec 20 18:43:55 is this a political party? Dec 20 18:44:02 nope, a nickname Dec 20 18:44:13 but I don't want to scold him, as he did a great job with the initial openttd porting Dec 20 18:44:56 hum Dec 20 18:45:11 ok, this is weird Dec 20 18:45:15 it's probably auto-optification which is just contraindicated here, as Nokia in their eternal wisdom decided to use PA prior to mounting /opt Dec 20 18:45:29 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libsndfile_1.0.20-0maemo1+ogg/summary.log Dec 20 18:45:49 see, AB rejected package on grounds that it overwrites a Nokia base firmware package Dec 20 18:45:54 yet Dec 20 18:45:57 the package is on the repos Dec 20 18:45:59 please, why not just give some people the sources so they can actually make a really good maemo device for us? Dec 20 18:46:17 i mean in this community we have like a dozen really amazing programmers Dec 20 18:46:35 at this point they are probably frightened of the n900 being better than their next big thing by the time they release it Dec 20 18:46:49 ham is open and lots of people complaining and nothing has really happend with it mikki-kun Dec 20 18:46:49 i mean, they were surely keeping USB host mode back as a reason for people to upgrade, right? Dec 20 18:47:00 only a dozen?? Dec 20 18:47:18 X-Fade: there? Dec 20 18:47:55 seems there are way more working in the background Dec 20 18:48:00 BCMM: (hostmode) nope, that's been fault of USB.cert zealots Dec 20 18:48:51 DocScrutinizer: sorry, don't know what usb.cert zealots are Dec 20 18:49:13 the USB cerification consortium blockheads Dec 20 18:49:40 * MohammadAG considers deoptifying the libflac8 package himself Dec 20 18:49:48 Nokia wasn't allowed to sell a device with OTG half-done Dec 20 18:49:48 ugh.. Dec 20 18:49:59 Anyone have a working sbox environment? Dec 20 18:50:12 MohammadAG: we need to remove the libsndfile1 package from -devel, it's broken Dec 20 18:50:12 DocScrutinizer: i thought OTG was a different thing from proper host mode? Dec 20 18:50:16 mine must be broken Dec 20 18:50:18 yes Dec 20 18:50:38 # Added by maemo-optify, with apologies. | you got that right Dec 20 18:50:41 but Nokia always planned to do proper OTG, and then they said "let's screw it" Dec 20 18:50:47 dotblank: my scratchbox worked last time i checked, though i haven't updated it in a while Dec 20 18:50:49 javispedro, I noticed it Dec 20 18:51:09 Well im getting segfaults from my output program :( Dec 20 18:51:11 i can't find flac installed in /opt... Dec 20 18:51:43 mikki-kun: do you have root? Dec 20 18:51:46 BCMM: then they realized they managed to get a nasty hw bug in there that even stops hostmode (they thought, and hell they almost were right) Dec 20 18:51:53 i am running root on it via ssh Dec 20 18:51:57 mikki-kun: and do you have PR1.3? Dec 20 18:52:02 javispedro, ping X-Fade Dec 20 18:52:03 MohammadAG: is OTG a seperate sort of USB, or just a word for anything that can use the same port as either a host or a slave? Dec 20 18:52:22 mikki-kun: then run, as root apt-get install libsndfile1=1.0.20-0maemo1+0m5 Dec 20 18:52:36 Well i'm trying to download the latest vm image and the site http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php Dec 20 18:52:45 MohammadAG: already did, few lines above :) Dec 20 18:52:46 is unresponsive Dec 20 18:52:53 BCMM, seeing the N8 (and of course, the long sessions of DocScrutinizer explaining it to me), OTG needs a different type of portt Dec 20 18:52:54 BCMM: #2 plus a bit fancy stuff on top Dec 20 18:52:57 port* Dec 20 18:53:24 * MohammadAG suggests buying X-Fade a hotline or something :P Dec 20 18:53:34 MohammadAG: different sorta port, or different wiring behind it to allow it to switch modes? Dec 20 18:53:56 BCMM, both Dec 20 18:54:10 it's squarish Dec 20 18:54:19 MohammadAG: oh, usb micro A? Dec 20 18:54:22 the OTG plug doesn't go in the N900 Dec 20 18:54:39 idk, I hate USB port naming schemes Dec 20 18:54:52 I think it's the same as the N800's Dec 20 18:55:01 BCMM: Nokia changed the receptacle from AB (OTG compliant) to B (periph only) and also changed a few 'little' things during that, one of which actually breaks both OTG and simple hostmode Dec 20 18:55:42 meh, why don't you ask MohammadAG :-P Dec 20 18:55:45 MohammadAG: this cable i have that I posted about on the hostmode thread; is it advertised wrongly then? Dec 20 18:55:50 If only they left the pin connected Dec 20 18:56:05 BCMM, link? Dec 20 18:56:19 "Micro USB Host Cable OTG on the go for N810 and TG01" - it has the same plug as the cables taht come with the n900 Dec 20 18:56:31 *sigh* Dec 20 18:56:42 MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=896306&postcount=553 (ebay links are stupidly long) Dec 20 18:56:57 I didn't know I made it on BCMM 's ignore lists on IRC *and* tmo Dec 20 18:57:16 just to be sure, I didn't know I made it on BCMM 's ignore lists on IRC *and* tmo Dec 20 18:57:18 :P Dec 20 18:57:31 DocScrutinizer: i've missed something obv. again, right? Dec 20 18:58:24 didn't the N810 lack OTG without a kernel hack anyways? Dec 20 18:58:25 Jaffa, if not, I can finish up tonight. Dec 20 18:58:35 also, tell me when my newbie questions about USB-related stuff are boring Dec 20 18:58:42 Jaffa, retail crush week is wearing me down, too. Dec 20 18:59:17 Ö.ö Dec 20 18:59:22 I heard a sound :D Dec 20 18:59:28 YAY \o/ Dec 20 18:59:31 DocScrutinizer: i'm not ignoring you, but I am confused now... Dec 20 18:59:38 THANKS javispedro :D Dec 20 19:00:20 GAN900: retail crush week? sup Dec 20 19:00:35 mikki-kun: bug filled, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11709 Dec 20 19:00:37 Bug 11709: Autobuilder allowed a Nokia-conflicting binary package to enter extras-devel (libsndfile1) Dec 20 19:00:46 *filed Dec 20 19:01:05 o_O Dec 20 19:01:11 why? Dec 20 19:01:38 DocScrutinizer: ah, i forgot the thing about ports that accept A and B - sorry Dec 20 19:02:10 hm, just how can autobuilder say it wasn't conflicting? Dec 20 19:02:20 it can Dec 20 19:02:22 MohammadAG: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libsndfile_1.0.20-0maemo1+ogg/summary.log -- it detected sndfile-programs Dec 20 19:02:24 i mean, isn't it from nokia the autobuilder? Dec 20 19:02:26 but why should it Dec 20 19:02:27 but failed to detect libsndfile1 Dec 20 19:02:37 so extras-devel isn't supposed to have "upgrades" to nokia apackages? Dec 20 19:02:45 i upped apt once Dec 20 19:02:50 BCMM, no Dec 20 19:03:29 BCMM: nope, that's what an SSU repo would be for. Dec 20 19:03:37 SSU? Dec 20 19:03:47 ~ssu Dec 20 19:03:47 well, ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU Dec 20 19:03:49 javispedro: thanks for filing a bug; couldn't get my head round who's bug it was Dec 20 19:03:55 yeah but a "community upgrade" wouldn't ever fall into a SSU Dec 20 19:04:00 i can't access those by default, have to use nameserver 8.8.4.4 to access them Dec 20 19:04:37 http://www.theonion.com/articles/20000-sacrificed-in-annual-blood-offering-to-corpo,18542/ Dec 20 19:04:52 rm_work, why's that? Dec 20 19:05:33 Moo, rm_me Dec 20 19:05:42 alterego, what happened to Columbus? Dec 20 19:05:46 yo RST38h Dec 20 19:06:09 MohammadAG: because when would Nokia push community fixes? :P Dec 20 19:06:31 like xorg for n800 that supports xrandr for example Dec 20 19:06:53 they wouldn't put that in a SSU because it's a community thing not a nokia thing <_< Dec 20 19:07:06 but it's an "upgrade" to a nokia base package Dec 20 19:07:07 rm_work: there's this entire "community SSU" thing, you know... Dec 20 19:07:08 rm_me: How has life been treating you lately? Anything Maemo/Meego-related? =) Dec 20 19:07:22 rm_work, I found Nokia-pushed fixes a bit... "unfixing" Dec 20 19:07:31 heh Dec 20 19:07:33 javispedro: ah, is there? then maybe i have been out of the loop for too long to really comment accurately Dec 20 19:07:48 * javispedro looks at MohammadAG Dec 20 19:07:59 and also, maybe I need to figure out how to load those on my n900? :) Dec 20 19:08:14 RST38h: not really, working long weeks for a soul-crushing corporation Dec 20 19:08:23 rm_work: NIH they said Dec 20 19:08:32 just managed to bypass their byzantine firewall last week Dec 20 19:08:44 rm_you: Ah, howfamiliar Dec 20 19:09:13 keep installing maemo SDK and then running out of time to actually do anything Dec 20 19:09:21 took a look at ABL beta for fremantle again... Dec 20 19:09:28 briefly Dec 20 19:09:43 realized I violated like 100% of their UI guideline Dec 20 19:09:56 and that at this point no one cares Dec 20 19:10:10 * MohammadAG stares at javispedro Dec 20 19:10:30 *cough* #maemo-ssu *cough* Dec 20 19:10:40 Ui guidelines...feh Dec 20 19:10:42 though I should probably look at doing more abstraction around the hardware control layer (like, supporting HAL) so it would work on more devices, since meego will run not only on one device now :P Dec 20 19:10:55 *cough* 14 *cough* Dec 20 19:11:00 HAL's been killed too Dec 20 19:11:03 T_T Dec 20 19:11:09 And Hildon too Dec 20 19:11:21 Is gconf still around? Dec 20 19:11:24 hehehe Dec 20 19:11:25 fail Dec 20 19:11:30 I think not, gnome guys talking about dconf already Dec 20 19:11:32 complete rewrite time... Dec 20 19:11:34 * DocScrutinizer kills gconf Dec 20 19:11:43 rm_you: But do not get dismayed, PulseAUdio and Tracker are still there Dec 20 19:11:49 lol Dec 20 19:11:53 * rm_work facepalms Dec 20 19:12:09 PA is now knows as polypaudio Dec 20 19:12:14 DocScrutinizer: you're going to love Gnome's plans. The "new" GSettings API maps nicely to the Windows Registry, up to the point that on Windows it will actually use the Registry as backend. Dec 20 19:12:26 lolololololol Dec 20 19:12:27 You surely cannot deprecate such important, well designed frameworks. Dec 20 19:12:33 can load it in regedit as a hive? :P Dec 20 19:12:34 WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRG Dec 20 19:12:37 That would be aking to wasting effort. Dec 20 19:12:43 s/aking/akin Dec 20 19:13:23 On the other hand, Clutter is [apparently] out, replaced by a Qt clone of itself Dec 20 19:13:26 I don't mind dumping old stuff that was either poorly designed or is just really outdated... I'll put in some extra effort to port software if there is significantly less cruft Dec 20 19:13:36 but it needs to be replaced by something BETTER Dec 20 19:13:51 I dare to suspect gconf lead devel was this guy of avahi and PA Dec 20 19:13:55 No, it needs to be replaced by something better accepted by the current management Dec 20 19:14:05 <_< Dec 20 19:14:08 DocScrutinizer: guess what too? that guy is also going to replace init now =) Dec 20 19:14:18 And the current gospel is QT Dec 20 19:14:20 YEEHAAA Dec 20 19:14:28 so, someone get me up to date really quick. I know there is a meego SDK out, right? Dec 20 19:14:36 lennart was the name, YES Dec 20 19:14:36 yes Dec 20 19:14:50 did they or did they not announce a new handset at the summit or after? Dec 20 19:14:57 rm_you: "Meego SDK" is basically a Moblin image for netbooks Dec 20 19:14:58 * DocScrutinizer starts to write a lennart-virus Dec 20 19:15:01 They did not Dec 20 19:15:10 Gave away a bunch of Samsung netbooks instead Dec 20 19:15:21 <_< Dec 20 19:15:24 * javispedro waits for the harmattan sbox sdk :) Dec 20 19:15:29 i mean, admittedly those look neat? Dec 20 19:15:38 rm_work: They look like Samsung netbooks. Dec 20 19:15:53 touch netbooks... Dec 20 19:16:16 awfully underpowered (but it is my first crapbook so take it with a grain of salt) Dec 20 19:16:22 Wouldn't matter even if they had penis receptacles Dec 20 19:16:24 s/crap/net/ Dec 20 19:16:25 javispedro meant: awfully underpowered (but it is my first netbook so take it with a grain of salt) Dec 20 19:16:28 lcukn900: how did you manage?! HOW!? Dec 20 19:17:03 That is not what everyone has been waiting for (i.e. either a phone or a tablet) Dec 20 19:17:03 lcukn900: (having a full time job and still managing to do anything outside of work) Dec 20 19:17:14 yeah... Dec 20 19:17:26 so still no announcement (official) of new phone? Dec 20 19:17:32 Nope Dec 20 19:17:36 rm_work: rumours Dec 20 19:17:43 someone was telling me they'd seen one, must have been... yeah, rumor Dec 20 19:17:47 Hey, rm_work. Dec 20 19:17:54 http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277333 Dec 20 19:17:55 crashanddie, dunno. Dec 20 19:18:04 rm_work: Google for Nokia N9 Dec 20 19:18:17 probably the real thing, imho. Dec 20 19:18:28 rm_work: Apparently a Harmattan device, photos out, look very close to Nokia E7 (also not out yet) Dec 20 19:18:43 heh, thx Dec 20 19:18:45 GeneralAntilles: sup Dec 20 19:18:56 rm_work: insanity week. Dec 20 19:18:58 GeneralAntilles: retail crush week? referring to your job? Dec 20 19:19:02 Yeah. Dec 20 19:19:09 where you working now? Dec 20 19:19:13 And, before you ask, it is *not* cut out from a used MacBook keyboard =) Dec 20 19:19:56 rm_work: local new/used bookstore. Dec 20 19:20:06 * DocScrutinizer waves and goes for aspirin Dec 20 19:20:10 I keep thinking about working somewhere else for a change, and they keep raising my pay. . . . Dec 20 19:20:17 GeneralAntilles: lol Dec 20 19:20:31 GeneralAntilles: and this is crazy rush week? because everyone wants books for xmas? :P Dec 20 19:20:36 Yes. Dec 20 19:20:38 Still. Dec 20 19:20:40 yeah, actually I went to HPB yesterday... Dec 20 19:20:43 The used part. Dec 20 19:20:51 First editions, leather bounds, collectors items, etc. Dec 20 19:21:05 sold like $300 of textbooks for $15 because i'm lazy as @$&* now that i have so little time outside of work Dec 20 19:21:24 and i just needed to get them off my shelf to make room Dec 20 19:21:29 Textbook market is silly. Dec 20 19:21:32 * RST38h keeping most valuable textbooks Dec 20 19:22:03 yeah, these ones were "Theater Production and Management" and a bunch of russian novels Dec 20 19:22:32 Oh, the theater thing...I remember :) Did it go well at the end? Dec 20 19:22:40 lol Dec 20 19:22:43 pity pass Dec 20 19:22:47 heh Dec 20 19:23:10 but all is well, i've been graduated for a full year now Dec 20 19:23:24 and selling my soul to the oal&gas industry Dec 20 19:24:11 rm_work: I heard they pay well and let you go places Dec 20 19:24:21 s/oal/oil/ Dec 20 19:24:21 rm_work meant: and selling my soul to the oil&gas industry Dec 20 19:24:24 yeah Dec 20 19:24:27 pay DAMN well Dec 20 19:24:31 GeneralAntilles: (increase pay) good plan, I should try this as well: CONSULTANT FOR HIRE! Dec 20 19:25:47 rm_work: does the work-in-the-north / work-in-the-middle-east / go-back-to-hq career path apply to you, or is it for managers only? Dec 20 19:26:30 well, as a programmer in their IT/Security department, they pretty much keep me at HQ Dec 20 19:27:06 rm_work: please ask if they still need somebody Dec 20 19:27:16 DocScrutinizer? Dec 20 19:27:16 heh Dec 20 19:27:24 you looking for a job? Dec 20 19:27:27 yep Dec 20 19:27:31 send me your resume :) Dec 20 19:27:36 k Dec 20 19:27:45 * javispedro needs to learn perl in 5 minutes Dec 20 19:28:02 aha a Dec 20 19:28:06 http://www.holg.com/oracle/monitor/perln5mn.htm Dec 20 19:28:14 lol javispedro Dec 20 19:28:27 rm_work deploying your software direct on a rig is required experience! Dec 20 19:28:30 * rm_work wishes we lived in a world where no one needed to learn perl at all Dec 20 19:28:49 lcukn900: my software to... provision AD priviliges to new employees? :P Dec 20 19:28:54 javispedro: You need ot know one thing only: Any combination of words and punctuation marks (ESPECIALLY punctuation marks) makes sense in perl Dec 20 19:28:55 yes Dec 20 19:28:59 ore so Dec 20 19:29:01 also, my company does not to production/exploration Dec 20 19:29:06 online refining and shipping Dec 20 19:29:14 unprovisioned people on rigs is bad Dec 20 19:29:18 *does not do Dec 20 19:29:23 There are worse things in the world than PERL. Hell, you might have to learn PYTHON! Dec 20 19:29:26 *only refining Dec 20 19:29:27 a years old perl script parsing a web page and filling some html form just broke Dec 20 19:29:28 wtf Dec 20 19:29:42 it's like i've got horrible autocomplete today, but it's just my brain T_T Dec 20 19:29:46 that means that everyone on the rig is unprovisioned then? Dec 20 19:30:30 lcukn900: my company does not do drilling :) we receive crude from other companies and refine it, and then transport and sell it in our gas stations Dec 20 19:30:39 and to other companies again Dec 20 19:31:45 DocScrutinizer: fwiw... Dec 20 19:31:53 modest was designed by nokia user interface designers Dec 20 19:32:02 all bugs in the ui are not faults of the engineers, but of the ui designers Dec 20 19:32:09 dwarfs, I knew it :-P Dec 20 19:32:18 who got crappy requirements and wrote a ui to accommodate only those requirements Dec 20 19:32:33 please don't insult dwarfs Dec 20 19:32:39 timeless_mbp: same old story all ver again Dec 20 19:32:46 dwarVES Dec 20 19:32:49 sup timeless Dec 20 19:32:59 rm_work: NOW Dec 20 19:33:08 * javispedro notes modest isn't horribly bad when compared to some other propietary platforms' clients Dec 20 19:33:12 And, the main Modest problems are with the backend,not with the UI Dec 20 19:33:24 Still takes40-60 seconds to show aPOP3 inbox Dec 20 19:33:25 sorry to miss you at Dublin (assuming you made it) Dec 20 19:33:31 RST38h: the backend was designed more or less to satisfy requirements of the ui designers Dec 20 19:33:33 i did Dec 20 19:33:39 javispedro: indeed, outlook express is worse XP Dec 20 19:33:39 * timeless_mbp is gone Dec 20 19:34:08 Actually, Modest uses Camel, which has not been designed for Modest at the first place Dec 20 19:34:28 RST38h: have you updated to pr1.3 and read https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11139 ' Dec 20 19:34:30 Bug 11139: Long delays in email interface Dec 20 19:35:00 use a webmailer, noobs! :-P Dec 20 19:35:09 * DocScrutinizer hides Dec 20 19:35:14 javispedro: Not using exchange, fortunately. But I am getting the same problem with POP3 Dec 20 19:35:27 DocScrutinizer: the worst part is that probably outlook express has an order of magnitude larger market share than modest =) Dec 20 19:35:35 email is one of those things where one group of people can use it happily forever and others will have problems Dec 20 19:35:38 javispedro:Emails openinstantly btw, but the POP3 inbox takes a longwhile Dec 20 19:35:38 RST38h: not necessarily MfE, happened to me with plain POP3 Dec 20 19:35:46 lcuk: Wrong Dec 20 19:35:58 annoyed that while n900 supports exchange, no exchange admin will ever let your device use their server unless it is android or iPhoneOS Dec 20 19:35:59 right actually Dec 20 19:36:03 RST38h: mine took nearly two minutes to open until I cleaned that key Dec 20 19:36:20 javispedro: the worst part is probably outlook express Dec 20 19:36:21 lcuk: Email is a thing that can be accessed in a bunch of different ways and if you do not test or do not implement these methods, users will complain Dec 20 19:36:23 (of email) Dec 20 19:36:42 javis: Key? Hmm, ok, checking the rest of that bug report Dec 20 19:37:10 telnet for the winners Dec 20 19:37:13 lcuk: And if you do not take time properly testing and fixing, then you may start complaining about users being "bad" on you, indeed Dec 20 19:37:59 RST38h: see last comment, has a snippet (I used gconf-editor instead though) Dec 20 19:38:51 * DocScrutinizer is quite sure telnet wouldn't load html mail embedded URLs :-P Dec 20 19:38:52 it should be fixed in pr1.3, but who knows... Dec 20 19:39:02 trying Dec 20 19:39:10 I do not think it is fixed Dec 20 19:39:16 rst38h so which mobile mail clients are to your satisfaction? Dec 20 19:39:26 it can be a different bug Dec 20 19:39:37 ah, perl. Dec 20 19:39:40 * javispedro goes on to read more about it Dec 20 19:40:14 lcuk: Pine via ssh works Dec 20 19:40:21 lcuk: So does Claws Dec 20 19:40:32 yeah, what's wring with cmdline mailers? Dec 20 19:40:33 lcuk: Google GMail Mobile works Dec 20 19:40:37 wrong* Dec 20 19:41:06 rst38h which do you use? Dec 20 19:41:28 * nox- mutt via ssh too Dec 20 19:41:33 and pine/ssh is not an end user thing Dec 20 19:41:45 aaaw Dec 20 19:41:48 * lcukn900 cannot recall claws Dec 20 19:42:21 javispedro: the command line command given in the last comment does not work. Dec 20 19:42:25 yeah, i use mutt for mail periodically Dec 20 19:42:31 lcuk: I use PINE most often Dec 20 19:42:54 as they say, `all muas suck, mutt sucks less' :) Dec 20 19:42:58 lcuk: It is known to work, with all known email delivery methods Dec 20 19:43:06 RST38h: and easy way to test if it's that issue is deleting/recreating the account Dec 20 19:43:12 rst38h can realpeople use it tho? Dec 20 19:43:12 well, "easy". Dec 20 19:43:25 Pine/Mutt preference mainly dependson how your mail agent is delivering your mail Dec 20 19:43:27 with mutt, you should know how to use VIM... so, no Dec 20 19:43:30 and what would you suggest for those people Dec 20 19:43:34 hah Dec 20 19:43:39 lcuk; Yes, PINE is dead simple Dec 20 19:43:41 on TMO They're rediscovering powervr.ini Dec 20 19:43:43 and pine is pico, no? Dec 20 19:43:51 lcuk: Not shiny, but easy to use Dec 20 19:43:54 cue cuestions about "is it possible To OMG OVERCLOCK the GPU using that file" Dec 20 19:44:05 javispedro: Yes, I have seen. The incredible undead lemmings. Dec 20 19:44:25 I hate forums... Dec 20 19:44:33 better than mailing lists Dec 20 19:44:41 yes, i hate mailing lists more Dec 20 19:44:42 LOL Dec 20 19:45:10 IRC with properly searchable logs is the best way to go IMO Dec 20 19:45:15 We need an evil, elitist, merit-based forum. Dec 20 19:45:16 * nox- still prefers a decent nntp client over any webforum :) Dec 20 19:45:23 javispedro, dd if=$thatfile into some mtd block Dec 20 19:45:24 rm_work: here I ACK Dec 20 19:45:25 * javispedro agrees with nox- Dec 20 19:45:37 Preferably one that requires you towrite a program to get posting privileges Dec 20 19:45:46 but IRC is not a SYN! Dec 20 19:45:48 haha Dec 20 19:45:50 * rm_work dies from pun Dec 20 19:45:50 * javispedro ponders warning TMOers against changing their WSEGL plugin Dec 20 19:45:55 as it will cause insta-brick Dec 20 19:46:01 RST38h, does a hello world count? Dec 20 19:46:19 Mohammad: Yes, as long as it is done via DBUS :) Dec 20 19:46:52 pffft Dec 20 19:47:03 does dbus-send count? Dec 20 19:47:13 GAN900: Ta. I'll try and find time, but I think I'm coming down with something Dec 20 19:47:21 prolly, but only once Dec 20 19:47:51 javispedro: linky? Dec 20 19:48:06 DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=900745&postcount=17 Dec 20 19:48:39 note that the author of that is "my old friend" from the preenv thread. Dec 20 19:50:07 javispedro, old? Dec 20 19:50:40 MohammadAG: remember the bullshit speaking guy? Dec 20 19:51:18 * RST38h does not understand why anyone cares how exactly a bunch of lemmings brick their N900s Dec 20 19:51:58 RST38h: less market share for your $50 "I am rich!" application! Dec 20 19:53:35 aha, the Eldar rumour about WP7 and Nokia is already on TMO! Dec 20 19:54:31 javispedro: WP7? Dec 20 19:54:37 windows phone 7 Dec 20 19:54:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=900715 Dec 20 19:54:54 thanks Dec 20 19:55:14 javispedro: are rodents getting properly wound up about it Dec 20 19:55:35 javispedro: Any posts, in all caps, "I HATE YOU NOKIA SWITCHING ANDROID"? Dec 20 19:55:35 they smell something Dec 20 19:55:45 so no, not yet. Dec 20 19:56:06 javispedro: If i may ask: how exactly does the WSEGL setting cause devices to be bricked? Out of curiosity :) Dec 20 19:56:10 Will be fun if the wp7 rumor is really true :) Dec 20 19:56:30 GAN900: ping Dec 20 19:56:44 MohammadAG: ping Dec 20 19:56:48 iDont: (let's bring something techie finally to the conversation) WSEGL is the one that actually decides where the color buffer is to be positioned/rendered Dec 20 19:57:24 Nokia ships a few ones (iirc) but from these only one takes care that our platform is a not simple fbdev based one but rather that we use Xorg Dec 20 19:57:51 the rest will probably fail, either by writing somewhere that does not have the real framebuffer or by crashing Dec 20 19:58:00 as they're only useful when Xorg is not controlling fb0 Dec 20 19:58:50 so, change it, and at best, you get black screen after hildon-desktop boot. (Well, at best, it might not do nothing because the alternative plugins will not be present in the final fw, don't really remember) Dec 20 20:00:54 in the Qt SDK, can you use things such as the MAFW framework without having an N900? Dec 20 20:01:05 javispedro: thanks for the explanation. Do you have any clue why I read several positive comments from people at TMO who have changed this setting if it will give you a blank screen at best? Dec 20 20:01:24 crash: In MADDE you mean? No Dec 20 20:01:45 iDont: You can find all kinds of comments on TMO. Dec 20 20:01:50 iDont: well, i made not working version of my modified fmtxd for 1.3 Dec 20 20:01:57 iDont: and some people claimed that it's working Dec 20 20:02:00 iDont: I don't want to know. Dec 20 20:02:16 iDont: Most are not indicative of anything. Either check who is commenting, or see how many people are commenting Dec 20 20:02:26 heh, lag :) Dec 20 20:02:35 anyone know if the FM Boost app still works? :P i still run it religiously every time i turn on my FMT but it seems to have stopped making an immediately obvious difference Dec 20 20:02:48 FM Boost does not work for me Dec 20 20:02:59 rm_work: it's not working on 1.3 Dec 20 20:03:00 You can check the FM transmit power, it stays the same here Dec 20 20:03:05 :( sad Dec 20 20:03:12 http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/FMTXD1.3 Dec 20 20:03:16 here is a fix for it Dec 20 20:03:17 THAT is one thing that needs to be fixed :P Dec 20 20:03:18 hehe, could have though of such a response :P Well, I'll leave the setting alone then. I used to overclock as well, but DocScrutinizer changed my mind (and for good reasons :) Dec 20 20:03:19 ah Dec 20 20:03:25 sweet Dec 20 20:03:28 And i thank him for that Dec 20 20:03:47 iDont: also, as hildon-desktop is the only one that actually touches the framebuffer, a restart is required for the setting to take effect Dec 20 20:03:54 so... Dec 20 20:04:04 javispedro: i see Dec 20 20:04:09 * RST38h touches the framebuffer, with extreme prejudice Dec 20 20:04:11 RST38h: yeah, in Madde, I guess Dec 20 20:04:15 rm_work: it will change power to 120 and change frequency limit to region 4 Dec 20 20:04:25 rm_work: so you can use it at highest power at all possible frequencies Dec 20 20:04:26 RST38h: so basically, anything that is maemo-specific can't be tested through the SDK? Dec 20 20:04:28 RST38h: but not via the sgx or pvr2d :) Dec 20 20:04:30 excellent Dec 20 20:04:40 rm_work: with charger plugged in Dec 20 20:04:42 crash: MADDE is just cross-compilation environment Dec 20 20:04:46 rm_work: or usb cable Dec 20 20:04:58 jacekowski: i see it says "installation procedure is same as prev version" but i originally installed it via apt, so..? :P Dec 20 20:05:10 crash: They have promised a full-scale qemu-based emulator as part of madde, but it is not there yet (there appear to be betas though, ask stskeeps) Dec 20 20:05:11 it's not fm boost Dec 20 20:05:15 ah Dec 20 20:05:16 it's different thing Dec 20 20:05:21 so i should remove fmboost app Dec 20 20:05:24 yes Dec 20 20:05:27 k Dec 20 20:05:33 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60567 Dec 20 20:05:40 this is full time then? don't have to run it every time i start FM transmitter? Dec 20 20:05:42 here is instruction Dec 20 20:05:45 thx Dec 20 20:05:47 rm_work: it's full time Dec 20 20:05:54 rm_work: that instruction is for 1.2 Dec 20 20:06:04 rm_work: but if you download 1.3 files it's pretty much the same Dec 20 20:06:05 RST38h: any options to test some code I'd like to contribute without an N900? Dec 20 20:06:34 crashand1ie_: nokia has some remote thing Dec 20 20:06:42 so you can access real n900 via internet Dec 20 20:06:53 crashanddie_: or you can use qemu with full device emulation Dec 20 20:06:57 jacekowski: ok, still need to also install fmtx-fake? Dec 20 20:07:09 jacekowski: so through scratchbox? Dec 20 20:07:12 rm_work: no Dec 20 20:07:17 rm_work: depends Dec 20 20:07:35 jacekowski: link to that nokia remote-n900 thingie? Dec 20 20:07:49 Jaffa, no worries, I can handle it tonight. Dec 20 20:07:55 rm_work: if you had to use fmtx-faker before you will have to use it now Dec 20 20:07:57 jacekowski: where are those? last time I checked (~18months ago) the N900 wasn't available Dec 20 20:08:09 Jaffa, I'll take care of publishing if you want to send me a little how-to. Dec 20 20:08:14 hrm k Dec 20 20:08:26 i already have fmtx-faker installed, can leave it alone? Dec 20 20:08:29 Jaffa: need help? Dec 20 20:08:43 DocScrutinizer: i never used it Dec 20 20:08:50 i'm just repating what i heard here Dec 20 20:09:04 or read on nokia website Dec 20 20:09:07 rm_work: yes Dec 20 20:09:15 rm_work: if it doesn't work then you will have to reinstall it Dec 20 20:09:21 yeah, it was a funny idea to operate on real devices, with little robot fingers to press keys etc Dec 20 20:09:33 k Dec 20 20:10:14 crashanddie: What sort of things do you want to do on the device? Dec 20 20:11:20 ah, they're going to copy the webos2 sgx drivers, not realizing that it's not even the same sgx model! Dec 20 20:11:33 SpeedEvil: integrate the MAFW wrapper code that someone provided to MohammadAG with MohammadAG's media player interface Dec 20 20:12:11 crashanddie: What would you need - just ssh? Dec 20 20:13:11 SpeedEvil: nha, VNC as well most likely Dec 20 20:13:27 how does someone without an N900 gain interest in writing code for it? Dec 20 20:14:11 hang on, I found the RDA -- remote device access Dec 20 20:14:12 Choom: you usually write for desktop Linux Dec 20 20:14:15 it provides access to the N900 Dec 20 20:15:32 yesh, but since you're not personally benefiting from it, what's the point? Dec 20 20:16:04 when I write a piece of software I'm its target audience, and so are my needs its target needs Dec 20 20:16:27 if it can be useful to others, great, but I'd never write something that I woul not benefit from Dec 20 20:16:40 was just wondering, nothing wrong with it :) Dec 20 20:17:03 holy shit Dec 20 20:17:05 it actually works Dec 20 20:17:09 I have access to an N900, lol Dec 20 20:17:14 heh Dec 20 20:17:55 crashanddie: Woo! Dec 20 20:18:04 crashanddie_: try to brick it Dec 20 20:18:09 haha Dec 20 20:18:15 rm -rf /* Dec 20 20:18:29 i'm just wondering how does it work Dec 20 20:18:52 crashanddie_, it's kinda old Dec 20 20:18:57 I'd be very careful about providing access to my phone to strangers Dec 20 20:19:00 MohammadAG: does it work? Dec 20 20:19:07 it used to.. Dec 20 20:19:10 * MohammadAG used it in October 09 :P Dec 20 20:19:10 with all the sensors in it I wouldn't like to have a backdoor here Dec 20 20:19:27 most strings had !! before them Dec 20 20:19:41 jacekowski, vnc-like thing Dec 20 20:19:54 developed by Digia Dec 20 20:19:56 screen doesn't seem responsive Dec 20 20:20:10 chroom for me the issue would be that I'd have to setup segregation and arrange a untrusted interior network partition Dec 20 20:20:26 crashanddie, blame your interwebz Dec 20 20:20:38 MohammadAG: is it running on real phone? Dec 20 20:20:38 SpeedEvil: some of the phones actually have real SIMs Dec 20 20:20:41 also, install ssh and post an IP Dec 20 20:20:48 fail Dec 20 20:20:54 jacekowski, yes Dec 20 20:20:59 doesn't detect my mouse clicks apparently Dec 20 20:21:20 jacekowski, go into a 5800 and start the camera Dec 20 20:21:27 tell MohammadAG to go punch the screen Dec 20 20:21:29 you'll see wires Dec 20 20:22:45 crashanddie_: wait, what? Dec 20 20:23:39 crashanddie_, what are you using? Dec 20 20:23:41 what about older phones Dec 20 20:23:51 there's a few hundred phones available Dec 20 20:23:55 most phones are on there Dec 20 20:23:59 kerio & mece: RDA Dec 20 20:24:04 http://apu.ndhub.net/devices Dec 20 20:24:06 4 N900s afaik Dec 20 20:24:09 2 N8s Dec 20 20:24:26 (You need a Forum Nokia account) Dec 20 20:24:38 lulz Dec 20 20:24:44 "The credentials you provided cannot be determined to be authentic." Dec 20 20:24:45 jacekowski, I shouldn't this here I guess, but oh well Dec 20 20:25:04 I hacked a 5800 on there once and tested a mod of mine Dec 20 20:25:09 it resulted in a bootloop Dec 20 20:26:59 MohammadAG: i don't see anything on 5800 camera Dec 20 20:27:10 MohammadAG: I'm going to dev on the media player Dec 20 20:27:14 jacekowski, capture the image Dec 20 20:27:23 MohammadAG: can you give me a sitrep of what's to do? Dec 20 20:27:42 get mafw source working with it Dec 20 20:27:54 I'm rewriting the FMTX dialog in Qt Dec 20 20:28:56 why''' Dec 20 20:29:14 cause the current one can't be parented in Qt Dec 20 20:29:41 huuu Dec 20 20:29:50 wait Dec 20 20:30:00 that makes no sense, can you elaborate? Dec 20 20:30:29 osso_exec_cp whatever expects a gpointer Dec 20 20:30:33 jacekowski: cool, works, painless, not even a reboot required. thanks :) Dec 20 20:30:44 if I pass this, it'll obviously fail Dec 20 20:30:55 (since "this" is a QMainWindow) Dec 20 20:31:08 actually, it won't fail, it just won't have a parent Dec 20 20:31:23 meaning if the player was in portrait mode, it'll flip into landscape mode Dec 20 20:31:49 " The GTK top-level widget. It is needed so that the widgets created by the plugin can be made a child of the main application that utilizes the plugin. Type is a gpointer so that the plugin does not need to depend on GTK (in which case it should ignore the parameter). " Dec 20 20:31:52 * javispedro jiggles Dec 20 20:32:57 the rewrite has to be part of the mediaplayer's code too Dec 20 20:33:10 since starting any Qt related app in portrait mode causes a segfault Dec 20 20:33:16 do you link with Gtk+ already? Dec 20 20:33:17 so I can't call it externally Dec 20 20:33:45 Not sure what you mean by that, so assume that I don't Dec 20 20:35:13 (reading Qt source) Dec 20 20:35:30 they probably link with Gtk+ already to get all the Hildon stuff Dec 20 20:36:01 MohammadAG: so the Qt simulator wouldn't allow me to test against the GObject code, right? Dec 20 20:36:13 what I mean is that the MaemoQt calls Hildon stuffs, that means it uses tricks that I guess allow it to get GtkWidgets from QWidgets (probably using externals) Dec 20 20:36:29 hildon, we hardly knew ye Dec 20 20:36:31 *gdk externals Dec 20 20:36:43 javispedro: yeah, we'll be talking to MAFW, so we'll have link against GObject stuff Dec 20 20:37:01 javispedro: so not too far a stretch to link against GtkWidgets Dec 20 20:37:04 MohammadAG: gps is working there as well Dec 20 20:37:23 jacekowski, finland :p Dec 20 20:37:52 crashanddie_, probably not Dec 20 20:37:57 yeah i found nokia top secret headquater Dec 20 20:37:58 crashanddie_, get your device back Dec 20 20:38:17 MohammadAG: actually, I might just go hit some kid down the road who bought an N900 a couple months back Dec 20 20:38:27 brb Dec 20 20:38:38 crashanddie_, that... might work too Dec 20 20:38:58 poor kid. Dec 20 20:39:16 (cause he bought a n900 =) ) Dec 20 20:39:30 crashanddie_: I wonder if you can test custom kernels on those devices :-D Dec 20 20:39:50 DocScrutinizer, you can erase the bootloader Dec 20 20:39:58 does that answer your question? :P Dec 20 20:40:04 kinda Dec 20 20:40:10 you can even use it to break their wifis Dec 20 20:40:18 LOL Dec 20 20:40:19 when I used it there was a long list of APs :9 Dec 20 20:40:21 MohammadAG: have you tried? Dec 20 20:40:50 jacekowski, I bricked a 5800 Dec 20 20:40:56 and that's not an open device Dec 20 20:40:58 * javispedro curses gitorious Dec 20 20:41:14 so where's the KVM to initialize a coldflash? Dec 20 20:41:16 GAN900: Publishing's the easy bit. Dec 20 20:41:29 crashanddie_: Feel free to get stuck in, link sent directly. Dec 20 20:41:39 Nokia's definition of push email, you get all emails as a digest in one push Dec 20 20:41:53 DocScrutinizer, you have 4 devices on it, have fun Dec 20 20:42:39 doesn't work for me, no way to plug in USB peripherals :-P Dec 20 20:43:32 not even a simple eMMC repartitioning flashing will be feasible Dec 20 20:44:26 btw Dec 20 20:44:31 all devices are on charge Dec 20 20:44:36 feel free to stop bme Dec 20 20:44:45 what do you plan to do? hack those n900 so that when the guy that probably flashes them every night gets to them finds they're now self conscious and debating whether to kill all the employees or just post in TMO? Dec 20 20:44:46 what for? Dec 20 20:45:27 javispedro: well, it doesn't look like it's flashed every night Dec 20 20:45:28 ok, I have an N900 Dec 20 20:45:34 javispedro, they're flashed on each update Dec 20 20:45:36 javispedro: lot of old crap still there Dec 20 20:45:45 We could demonstrate you can NOT explode the battery XD Dec 20 20:45:50 * MohammadAG found some java porn apps on a 5800 Dec 20 20:45:58 anyone knows how to configure Brekeke SIP server to work with N900? Dec 20 20:46:15 i'm surprised you guys didn't know about RDA Dec 20 20:46:43 MohammadAG: now how do I setup Qt Creator to run on the device? Dec 20 20:46:45 there was a tmo thread about it even, back before I had my n900 Dec 20 20:46:47 I know from a time where there were no N900 Dec 20 20:47:25 argh ARGH ARGGGGGGGGGGGH Dec 20 20:47:31 * javispedro watches the qt-maemo guys do horrible hack Dec 20 20:47:35 crashanddie_, projects, click the + sign, add maemo, edit the run part Dec 20 20:47:40 even worser than the one I was looking for Dec 20 20:48:29 where did you get the device crashanddie_ ? Dec 20 20:48:46 ok, now that's long enough just coffee. See you Dec 20 20:48:48 MohammadAG: kid at the end of the street Dec 20 20:49:00 MohammadAG: basically, to set "parent" (in Qt language; transient for hint in X11 language) they just create the window then set the transient hint of whatever the active window is Dec 20 20:49:19 MohammadAG: it's PR1.2, problem? Dec 20 20:49:35 MohammadAG: that is easily replicable but looks so hackish (even to me) than yes, keep on creating the replacement dialog = Dec 20 20:49:38 =) Dec 20 20:49:44 s/than/that Dec 20 20:51:04 crashanddie_, what did you do? o_O Dec 20 20:51:19 and maybe, you might need the old sysroot, which I have no idea where to get Dec 20 20:51:31 or add the sdk repos and update libqt4-* Dec 20 20:51:33 old sysroot? Dec 20 20:52:53 javispedro: what replacement dialog? Dec 20 20:53:04 fmtx applet Dec 20 20:53:13 for the qtmediaplayer menu Dec 20 20:54:04 oh, yeah :) Dec 20 20:54:26 X11 transient hint might be a way to go Dec 20 20:54:45 crashanddie_, just add the sdk repos to the device and upgrade libqt4* Dec 20 20:54:49 Venemo, said that works Dec 20 20:55:00 ok MohammadAG :) Dec 20 20:55:43 jacekowski, any idea in where to get the supported FMTX range? Dec 20 20:56:05 hm btw jacekowski, is your fmtxd replacement OSS? Dec 20 20:56:10 Venemo: no Dec 20 20:56:17 Venemo: it's binary patch of original fmtxd Dec 20 20:56:28 very illegal Dec 20 20:56:35 and breaking couple copyright laws Dec 20 20:56:43 MohammadAG: you mean frequency range? Dec 20 20:56:59 jacekowski: how did you manage to do that? :O Dec 20 20:57:00