**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 03 02:59:58 2011 Jan 03 03:00:00 have any of you ever been able to control your eyes independently Jan 03 03:00:07 i can Jan 03 03:00:09 there's always ukeyboard Jan 03 03:00:17 pupnik, anyone can? Jan 03 03:00:21 i can change the left eye without moving the right Jan 03 03:00:25 i met someone who could do it like a reptile Jan 03 03:00:34 lol Jan 03 03:00:35 MohammedAG not anyone , only if u meditate Jan 03 03:00:43 pupnik: it always bothers me, because it totally should be possible Jan 03 03:00:45 yes he was very advanced in meditation Jan 03 03:01:01 well Jan 03 03:01:11 daxt: did looking at a mirror help? Jan 03 03:01:12 I can't control my hands and legs separately Jan 03 03:01:19 = I fail at drums in rock band :P Jan 03 03:01:33 MohammadAG: that's a similar kind of mental focus Jan 03 03:01:44 or de-focus Jan 03 03:01:44 pupnik not a mirror , an object is the starting point Jan 03 03:01:49 yeah Jan 03 03:01:56 but I never practiced it Jan 03 03:02:03 the idea of pointing both eyes outwards somehow seems completely impossible or painful, and yet for each eye it's just a perfectly normal position... Jan 03 03:02:20 MohammedAG if u want to become a prophet , begin practising :D Jan 03 03:03:16 daxt: do you 'divert' the same eye as your dominant hand (left/right)? Jan 03 03:03:55 yes Jan 03 03:04:13 if ur right hand is dominent , u can move ur left eye :D Jan 03 03:04:16 MohammadAG: how does it look, that latinised arabic Jan 03 03:04:25 like this? Jan 03 03:04:32 that's english Jan 03 03:04:37 we just use english with numbers :P Jan 03 03:04:44 even google translate allows it Jan 03 03:05:05 you can type in phonetic arabic, basically, what something sounds like in arabic but in english Jan 03 03:05:23 so like allah akbar, kaboom Jan 03 03:05:29 yes Jan 03 03:05:44 try it in google translate Jan 03 03:05:48 and i noticed "habibi" is quite often used Jan 03 03:05:54 Mjy Jan 03 03:05:57 my love* Jan 03 03:06:04 damn enter key Jan 03 03:06:21 though i suggest you don't use that, unless you're gay :P Jan 03 03:06:26 literally Jan 03 03:06:31 well, hmm, strange Jan 03 03:06:48 somebody at work uses it quite often when speaking to other people in arabic Jan 03 03:07:16 he's probably using it in the context of "dude" Jan 03 03:07:28 but literally, it means "my love" Jan 03 03:07:54 jacekowski, type habibi in google translate Jan 03 03:08:07 just have the phonetic thingy checked Jan 03 03:08:35 Arabic to English translation Jan 03 03:08:36 habibi Jan 03 03:08:40 doesn't work Jan 03 03:08:59 do i have to write it in reverse? Jan 03 03:09:03 do you have the "Allow phonetic typing" check box checked? Jan 03 03:09:09 * ShadowJK types arabic on his N900: 123456789 Jan 03 03:09:11 no, it works on my N900 Jan 03 03:09:22 i'm doing it on my pc Jan 03 03:09:33 again, do you have the checkbox ticked? Jan 03 03:09:46 no checkbox Jan 03 03:09:49 hmm Jan 03 03:09:55 javascript disabled? Jan 03 03:10:02 enabled Jan 03 03:10:10 hmm Jan 03 03:10:12 refresh Jan 03 03:10:21 set it to arabic, auto detect doesn't work Jan 03 03:10:27 still nothing Jan 03 03:11:12 hmm Jan 03 03:11:18 I don't see the option anymore Jan 03 03:11:19 sec Jan 03 03:11:25 i'm not planing to write anything in arabic anyways Jan 03 03:12:11 yeah but why was it removed Jan 03 03:12:34 here's one: if you look into a mirror and tilt your head left and right, do your eyes auto-level? Jan 03 03:13:40 it's even in the support page Jan 03 03:14:46 sigh Jan 03 03:14:56 I used it last week for russian to english Jan 03 03:15:14 oh well Jan 03 03:15:24 anyone interested in porting Qt to the PS3? :P Jan 03 03:15:54 well, linux is working there now Jan 03 03:16:01 so where is the problem? Jan 03 03:16:13 natively Jan 03 03:16:25 i.e for GameOS apps Jan 03 03:16:26 cross compiling, heh Jan 03 03:17:10 OtherOS is like GameOS - 3D acceleration Jan 03 03:17:13 so it's crap Jan 03 03:23:36 * alterego wonders why he's still awake at 3am Jan 03 03:24:08 why not? Jan 03 03:24:24 Yeah, I guess you could look at it that way :P Jan 03 03:25:17 guys /etc/hosts file in my N900 contains "127.0.0.1 Nokia-N900 localhost" Jan 03 03:25:26 is it ok > Jan 03 03:25:36 or shall i add more dns values into that ? Jan 03 03:25:37 MohammadAG: are you installing maemo on a ps3 or something? Jan 03 03:25:41 yes, it's ok Jan 03 03:25:50 BCMM, Qt != maemo :P Jan 03 03:26:03 yeah, i know Jan 03 03:26:53 how do i add more name servers into hosts file ? same as other linux formats , such as nameserver 8.8.4.4 Jan 03 03:26:55 ? Jan 03 03:27:07 it is linux Jan 03 03:27:13 you mean /etc/resolv.conf? Jan 03 03:27:20 nameservers don't go into hosts Jan 03 03:27:32 ah yes Jan 03 03:27:39 resolv.conf Jan 03 03:27:42 also - /etc/resolv.conf points to dsnmasq - which does the shizzle. Jan 03 03:27:44 It works as it normally does on desktop, but be warned. Jan 03 03:27:53 hm.. my main desktop's uptime correlates quite well with my distro being 3 major releases out of date.. Jan 03 03:28:04 Heh Jan 03 03:28:15 I don't know what runs nsmasq and how it's setup Jan 03 03:28:21 .. I have older kernel than stock n900 Jan 03 03:28:24 It might be ICD - which is closed Jan 03 03:29:23 Right' gonna go to sleep now g'night folks Jan 03 03:29:31 cat /proc/version Jan 03 03:29:32 Linux version 2.4.17_mvl21-malta-mips_fp_le (root@rhl) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release/MontaVista)) #5 Áù 3ÔÂ 4 13:37:03 CST 2006 Jan 03 03:29:37 Oldest system up I think Jan 03 03:29:41 daxt: even windows uses the same format for the hosts file :) Jan 03 03:29:54 * SpeedEvil stabs vendor of above kernel. Jan 03 03:30:54 BCMM ya bill gates stole the idea Jan 03 03:31:08 is this channel logged somewhere? Jan 03 03:32:01 \WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc\ has several files that would be present in a real /etc/ directory, oddly. i presume it's something to do with having lifted the BSD networking stack Jan 03 03:32:02 daxt, BCMM, `on windows, networking was an afterthought...' Jan 03 03:34:06 spiritd, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ Jan 03 03:35:05 spiritd: every irc channel is logged Jan 03 03:35:39 spiritd: sometimes not in public, but any channel bigger than 3 peopel will be logged by at least one person Jan 03 03:35:59 some have rules against public logging Jan 03 03:36:09 BCMM: win98 had bsd stack Jan 03 03:36:14 well 9x Jan 03 03:36:25 win nt based have different stack Jan 03 03:36:32 that's just using same files Jan 03 03:36:44 and was designed in compatible way Jan 03 03:37:09 guys do u think app in this page http://www.saravali.de/ can be ported into N900 ? Jan 03 03:37:20 hmm, i wonder what sort of line breaks they use in /etc/hosts :) Jan 03 03:37:44 BCMM: on windows or on bsd? Jan 03 03:37:48 aww, they use windows ones. that's boring. Jan 03 03:38:24 anyway, whatever it's origins are, it's surprising suddenly feeling that at home on windows... Jan 03 03:38:44 config files, proper config files with # as the comment character... Jan 03 03:42:26 SpeedEvil, I have a 2.9.* device Jan 03 03:42:58 it's a Dreambox set top box Jan 03 03:46:09 That's impressive. Jan 03 03:46:31 mining is addictive x.x Jan 03 03:46:43 luke-jr: I looked at some tutorials. Jan 03 03:46:54 luke-jr: No fucking way am I touching minecraft. Jan 03 03:47:02 not talking about any dumb game :p Jan 03 03:47:05 mining bitcoins Jan 03 03:47:13 oh - that Jan 03 03:47:17 i looked at minecraft videos today Jan 03 03:47:20 Is there a n900 client? Jan 03 03:47:25 shrug Jan 03 03:47:31 I would be _way_ too addicted. Jan 03 03:47:33 build one, it's probably useless tho Jan 03 03:47:48 Depends on the algorithms. Jan 03 03:47:59 Some algorithms are designed so that they are uncacheable. Jan 03 03:48:05 these are Jan 03 03:48:10 This causes a remarkable parity between processors. Jan 03 03:48:35 most of the high volume mining is proprietary GPUs with OpenCL miners Jan 03 03:48:35 I.E. n900 and fastest available processor may be only a single digit multiple per core out. Jan 03 03:49:02 I have 4 computers mining, and barely making 0.03 BTC per block Jan 03 03:49:16 Uncachable algorithms rely on large arrays, and random accesses to them. Jan 03 03:49:24 what is it Jan 03 03:49:27 that bitcoin thing Jan 03 03:49:31 jacekowski: digital currency Jan 03 03:49:39 so what is the point Jan 03 03:49:45 how do i exchange it for real thing Jan 03 03:49:47 like food Jan 03 03:49:50 MtGox Jan 03 03:49:51 jacekowski: It's the currency of the future or someting. Jan 03 03:50:03 it exchanges at about 30 USD cents per bitcoin currently Jan 03 03:50:17 who exchanges it? Jan 03 03:50:27 and how are you mining these bitcoins? Jan 03 03:50:29 some guy Jan 03 03:50:33 jacekowski: CPU time Jan 03 03:50:34 lots of it Jan 03 03:50:51 so you sell your cpu time Jan 03 03:50:55 not quite Jan 03 03:50:58 but sortof Jan 03 03:51:08 hmm Jan 03 03:51:08 explain Jan 03 03:51:20 I have an idle i5 Jan 03 03:51:24 the CPU time is spent doing useless maths, and also operating the bitcoin functionality Jan 03 03:51:38 MohammadAG: want to mine for me? :P Jan 03 03:51:54 what do I get in return? Jan 03 03:52:00 nothing! :P Jan 03 03:52:10 course, you could always mine for yourself <.< Jan 03 03:52:17 well duh Jan 03 03:52:22 how do I do that? Jan 03 03:52:33 first get a BitCoin address Jan 03 03:52:39 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getting_started Jan 03 03:52:57 then join a mining pool like http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ Jan 03 03:53:03 or just mine alone, but that's much harder Jan 03 03:53:20 then you're competing against all the other mines Jan 03 03:53:26 mining pool is cooperative mining :P Jan 03 03:53:31 And how long on a normal CPU does one coin take? Jan 03 03:53:53 SpeedEvil: depends on competition :P Jan 03 03:54:01 and the transaction fees people offer Jan 03 03:54:04 so the faster the CPU the better? Jan 03 03:54:09 MohammadAG: pretty much Jan 03 03:54:17 luke-jr: I mean to create - at the moment - say your computer Jan 03 03:54:19 and how much is a bitcoin again? Jan 03 03:54:25 in USDs Jan 03 03:54:29 SpeedEvil: huh? Jan 03 03:54:36 MohammadAG: currently they trade at 30 cents Jan 03 03:54:44 oh, cents Jan 03 03:54:57 heh Jan 03 03:54:59 luke-jr: I was wondering how much electricity you were spending per 30c Jan 03 03:55:17 SpeedEvil: I don't pay for electricity on my dedicated servers :x Jan 03 03:55:22 luke-jr, how much time does a bitcoin take on say, an i5 Jan 03 03:55:31 MohammadAG: no idea, don't have anything that fast Jan 03 03:55:45 and again, depends on the competition Jan 03 03:55:53 each block generates 50 BTC total Jan 03 03:56:01 if you're mining alone and get the block, you get it all Jan 03 03:56:13 if you're mining with a pool, it gets split up fairly Jan 03 03:56:22 same resolver code so yes Jan 03 03:56:32 oops scrollback fail .) Jan 03 03:56:47 yeah Jan 03 03:57:11 MohammadAG: faq says that they generate 6 bitcoins/h in whole network Jan 03 03:57:40 to me it's braindead idea Jan 03 03:59:05 jacekowski: which? bitcoins or mining them? Jan 03 03:59:24 all of it Jan 03 04:01:01 so say I earn 30c an hour Jan 03 04:01:30 (highly unlikely) Jan 03 04:01:54 $7.2 a day Jan 03 04:02:05 more like a year Jan 03 04:02:14 i'll pass Jan 03 04:02:40 i saw a project somewhere on interweb Jan 03 04:02:45 all you're doing is processing transactions, what do you expect to get for it? :P Jan 03 04:02:48 where they were paying for cpu time Jan 03 04:03:09 Ha Jan 03 04:03:11 luke-jr: transactions? Jan 03 04:03:13 meego-community Jan 03 04:03:15 luke-jr, I read your earlier message as $30 per bitcoin Jan 03 04:03:16 jacekowski: yeah Jan 03 04:03:22 so i was interested Jan 03 04:03:28 luke-jr: where are these transactions coming from Jan 03 04:03:43 jacekowski: people spending bitcoins Jan 03 04:03:50 i don't think that thing is so popular that you need network of computers to process them Jan 03 04:04:05 jacekowski: the encryption stuff… Jan 03 04:04:10 and distributed db Jan 03 04:04:13 The idea is that there is a finite money supply Jan 03 04:04:23 doesn't that mean i can sniff it? Jan 03 04:04:23 Which takes some effort to populate Jan 03 04:04:24 and no central authority over it Jan 03 04:04:27 then scarcity takes over Jan 03 04:04:31 MohammadAG: you can Jan 03 04:04:46 but the encryption and distributed db means you can't steal without getting private keys Jan 03 04:05:20 lets hope the keys are better secured than the ps3's :) Jan 03 04:05:26 so everybody will know how much everybody else has Jan 03 04:05:31 nox-, zing Jan 03 04:05:32 jacekowski: not exactly Jan 03 04:05:32 xD Jan 03 04:05:50 jacekowski: balances aren't per-individual ☺ Jan 03 04:05:51 nox-: well, they are using ecdsa Jan 03 04:05:58 nox-, the ps3 also holds the psp master keys so... Jan 03 04:06:08 nox-: and hmm, so far i've seen two serious implementation problems in ecdsa Jan 03 04:06:19 @Linux Foundation people using terms like "intellectual property" as if they have real meaning is scary. Jan 03 04:06:24 nox-: winrar licence generation Jan 03 04:06:26 nox-: and ps3 Jan 03 04:06:33 o_O Jan 03 04:06:45 jacekowski, the were using a constant in place of what should be random data Jan 03 04:07:03 jacekowski, (in case you didnt see the 27c3 talk :) Jan 03 04:07:07 i did Jan 03 04:07:10 well, it's a implementation fail Jan 03 04:07:12 ok :) Jan 03 04:07:26 thing is that with this thing Jan 03 04:07:35 if somebody finds out that there was a screw up Jan 03 04:07:44 and there are only 65k possible private keys Jan 03 04:07:50 like with last debian disaster Jan 03 04:07:56 ugh Jan 03 04:08:00 shit will hit the fan Jan 03 04:08:14 jacekowski: if EFF accepts it, they must have audited it Jan 03 04:09:04 well, openssl code was audited Jan 03 04:09:34 Was openssl code - as edited by monkeys audited? Jan 03 04:10:33 i'm not going to trust thing like that Jan 03 04:10:44 where major screw up cannot be fixed easily Jan 03 04:10:49 tbh, if I get payments in BTC, I plan to convert immediately :P Jan 03 04:11:19 with banks if shit happens Jan 03 04:11:32 they can just block all access to people outside Jan 03 04:11:35 regenrate keys Jan 03 04:11:59 tough, somebody will have no access to his money Jan 03 04:12:01 Or breakthroughs in quantum computation meaning bitcoins are useless Jan 03 04:12:10 but it's not going to be stolen within seconds Jan 03 04:12:13 like with bitcoins Jan 03 04:12:17 where it's online only Jan 03 04:12:26 actually Jan 03 04:12:49 since the bitcoin db has the full history, everyone could agree to roll it back and replace teh system Jan 03 04:13:18 well, sort of Jan 03 04:13:26 imagine if somebody would find that bug Jan 03 04:13:35 true Jan 03 04:13:36 and not share it with everybody Jan 03 04:13:38 guys is there an app which reads offline maps while ur on the go and do not consume OTA internet ? Jan 03 04:13:41 just steal Jan 03 04:13:46 and cash in as soon as possible Jan 03 04:13:47 SpeedEvil, there was a u.s. govt job posting some time ago looking for a quantum computing expert saying `assume working hw'... Jan 03 04:14:03 nox-: there are working quantum computers Jan 03 04:14:03 nice Jan 03 04:14:20 there was company that announced it couple years back Jan 03 04:14:29 that they have very simple 4 qbit quantum computer Jan 03 04:14:31 fully working Jan 03 04:14:34 Scary: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-January/003022.html Jan 03 04:14:39 jacekowski, yeah but those guys seem to have bigger ones than publicly known... Jan 03 04:16:08 GeneralAntilles: well, that article is partialy right Jan 03 04:18:48 jacekowski, yeah, but such requirements are "usual", e.g. I've been asked for >5 years commercial Android experience last year by an agent, .... Jan 03 04:19:05 jacekowski, in this the customer has been Deutsche Bahn, ... Jan 03 04:19:11 as in, there has to be some way for content provider that when he sells his content that there will be no people that will just post it on the internet because they can Jan 03 04:19:23 Which is fucking insane. Jan 03 04:19:24 but DRMs are not way to go Jan 03 04:19:28 jacekowski: why? Jan 03 04:19:38 At least for most content that can be ripped from otehr sources. Jan 03 04:19:41 Most people are willing to pay for content if it's worthwhile and reasonably priced. Jan 03 04:19:42 Also - fair use. Jan 03 04:19:49 The problem these days is that most content is neither. Jan 03 04:19:53 GeneralAntilles: yes, but some people are not Jan 03 04:20:01 jacekowski: sure, some people also shoplift. Jan 03 04:20:07 But those aren't the majority Jan 03 04:20:18 and they wont pay however draconian you make your DRM. Jan 03 04:20:26 DRM really only punishes your customers. Jan 03 04:20:30 DRM can be circumvented Jan 03 04:20:31 Speaking personally. Jan 03 04:20:39 and it ussualy hits legitimate users the most Jan 03 04:20:43 I have bought quite a few ebooks from fictionwise.com Jan 03 04:20:45 so drm isn't the way to go Jan 03 04:20:47 that's one Jan 03 04:20:52 However - I only buy unencrypted ones. Jan 03 04:20:55 some content is avaliable only in some contries Jan 03 04:21:01 which is wrong Jan 03 04:21:14 As I can't do what I want to do with the books otherwise. Jan 03 04:21:28 SpeedEvil: Baen is good for those. Jan 03 04:21:38 thing is that when i buy some stuff Jan 03 04:21:41 or license it Jan 03 04:21:43 (rip to html, pop through a backreference script so I can click people and get links to their declaration) Jan 03 04:21:45 as some would like to say Jan 03 04:21:48 GeneralAntilles: Indeed. Jan 03 04:21:52 Unfortunately MeeGo's customers are OEMs. Jan 03 04:22:05 Which means the project doesn't have any of our best interests at heart. Jan 03 04:22:16 i should be allowed to play it as many times as i want, with any hardware i like, and then sell/give it to somebody else later on Jan 03 04:22:23 GeneralAntilles, only if you like Sci-Fi/Fantasy, ... Jan 03 04:22:31 yacc: well, sure. Jan 03 04:22:44 fictionwise has a slightly wider range of stuff Jan 03 04:22:45 yacc: but it's an example of a publisher doing the right think Jan 03 04:22:46 GeneralAntilles, actually, it's webscription nowadays, there are other publishers on webscription for some time. Jan 03 04:22:52 so we should be voting with our wallets and supporting it. Jan 03 04:23:02 I have been. Jan 03 04:23:04 Although the monthly collections are done only by Baen. Jan 03 04:23:13 To a limited extent, admittedly. Jan 03 04:24:07 Well, the issue is not even the price, but the offered payment forms are not necessarily convinient to Europeans, ... Jan 03 04:24:21 yacc: ah, well. Jan 03 04:24:26 And the ARCs are kind of ripoffs, IMHO. Jan 03 04:24:36 well, paypal, cards Jan 03 04:24:43 everybody has one now Jan 03 04:24:44 I don't have problems with ARCs Jan 03 04:24:48 arcs? Jan 03 04:24:48 drm is not a solution, and at least the online music shops know it already Jan 03 04:24:58 jacekowski, not everyone ;) Jan 03 04:25:00 nox-: well, lot of people know it Jan 03 04:25:08 true Jan 03 04:25:17 nox-: why dvd's are released couple months after premiere Jan 03 04:25:34 jacekowski, Advanced Reader Copy or something like that. Basically a version of the book as it is being delivered by the author to the publisher, without proofreading. Jan 03 04:25:38 nox-: to make sure that they made all profit from people watching it in cinema Jan 03 04:25:52 yacc: It's post first-proof AIUI Jan 03 04:25:54 if you give people convenient and free access to media they want, you can slip in some degree of advertising to pay for the eyeballs Jan 03 04:26:11 Galleys are what they call those in the industry. Jan 03 04:26:40 nox-: everybody knows it's not efective, but it's free for them at the moment Jan 03 04:26:45 http://publishingcentral.com/articles/20030409-1-0a1c.html Jan 03 04:27:01 nox-: as in, money was spent developing that drm technology in dvd's Jan 03 04:27:15 I've not found major problems with ARCs. Jan 03 04:27:16 nox-: so they add it, and it stops some people from copying it Jan 03 04:27:22 jacekowski, well, not exactly, a R5LD release works well enough for a typical home screen, ... Jan 03 04:27:44 r5 releases are coming from russian dvds Jan 03 04:28:10 SpeedEvil, well, they ask a high price for them, that's somehow understandable, but they expect you to buy the proofed version too, which rubs me wrong. Jan 03 04:28:30 and there is less r5 releases now than it used to be Jan 03 04:28:35 IIRC you get the real version too if you download it later Jan 03 04:28:43 jacekowski, I know, but in practice R5LD is near perfect for home consumption, ... Jan 03 04:29:29 i would be happy to pay for a movie if i could watch it without any problems without any additional advertisments Jan 03 04:29:38 without any drms Jan 03 04:29:38 jacekowski, actually, the dubbing is kind of a problem you've not got mostly, I've noticed that quite a bit of movies are still "lectored" in Polish, ... Jan 03 04:29:40 exactly Jan 03 04:29:47 but nobody is distributing movies like that Jan 03 04:30:17 jacekowski, http://www.geekologie.com/image.php?path=/2010/02/25/piracy-full.jpg Jan 03 04:30:18 jacekowski, worse, they distribute it DRMed as pay per view after the DVD release, ... Jan 03 04:30:37 with torrents it's just click and it's here ready Jan 03 04:30:41 jacekowski, at a price where I can rent it for almost a week from a DVD rental shop for a 24h viewing period, ... Jan 03 04:30:46 if i could pay with same click - no problem Jan 03 04:31:16 jacekowski, yeah, mediatomb seems to handle the problem of preprocessing stuff on the fly for the PS3 just fine :) Jan 03 04:31:17 jacekowski, yeah, like amazon mp3s etc Jan 03 04:31:45 possibly with option of like 10 minute sample Jan 03 04:31:55 so if within 10 minutes you decide that it's crap Jan 03 04:32:01 you just get your money back Jan 03 04:33:58 jacekowski, yeah, the problem is that even Amazon MP3 does not compare to the ease-of-use of torrents, ... Jan 03 04:34:03 guys i am running freoffice on my N900 and it renders unicode text awefully , is there a better alternative ? Jan 03 04:34:40 jacekowski, e.g. compare trying to buy all relevant mp3s for your daughter, versus pulling a top-100 torrent once a month, and let her pick the mp3 via Samba from your box? Jan 03 04:35:28 yeah there's still room for improvement :) Jan 03 04:37:33 jacekowski, with amazon I basically have to supervise her "shopping" for quite a bit of time, or do it for her, while just pulling regular updates is a trivial thing to do. It does not even take much longer, in some way it's even faster, because pulling 500MB or 5MB makes not much of a difference (at least if the torrent is well seeded) when you pull 10MB/s => so it's 50s versus 0.5s, but it takes longer than one minute to select the relevant songs on Amazon Jan 03 04:37:34 , especially if you are not shopping for yourself, ... Jan 03 04:38:03 do kids share mp3s via phone bluetooth push? Jan 03 04:38:56 pupnik, probably, ... Jan 03 04:39:16 yes, we do Jan 03 04:39:36 i mean non-computer geek kids Jan 03 04:40:13 well then they shouldn't have much trouble getting the latest hit song Jan 03 04:40:43 pupnik, mine is quite unhappy that she overrode me, because she got the touchscreen mobile all peergroup kids got, but it's rather uncool when it comes to Internet (GPRS only, unmaintained early Webkit browser, and with GPRS the included youtube client is kind of worthless) ;) Jan 03 04:40:59 Anyone have any idea if maemo works on the droid 2? Jan 03 04:41:04 heheh Jan 03 04:41:31 pupnik, yeah, they do, although I personally prefer the USB cable for home loading ;) Jan 03 04:41:47 pupnik, well, I wanted to sell her an Android (with UMTS), ... Jan 03 04:41:53 what did she get? Jan 03 04:42:04 pupnik, but she insisted that she wants that Samsung trash ;) Jan 03 04:42:13 pupnik, Samsung Star. Jan 03 04:42:17 the bada phone??? Jan 03 04:42:52 no idea what OS, but it's a closed Samsung-only OS. Bada or Jet? No idea, no one, including Samsung specifies what OS is included, ... Jan 03 04:42:57 hey that's affordable Jan 03 04:43:13 what u complanin about :) Jan 03 04:44:25 pupnik, these guys are just user-unfriendly, e.g. you need to serve up JAD files via a http server (accessible via Internet, because the only connectivity it got is GPRS), clicking on a JAD file on the memory card just results in "unsupported file type" => Samsung even claims that the only source of apps is samsung.com, guess they want to cash in on their phones, ... Jan 03 04:45:02 pupnik, well, I would have prefered to spend twice the money so she gets a sensible phone, so she does not clamor for a new one after one year, ... Jan 03 04:45:28 pupnik, funny thing, money seldom is an issue, family politics are an issue. Jan 03 04:45:30 i understand Jan 03 04:45:39 but to a young person a year is a long time Jan 03 04:45:55 pupnik, back then I could have bought her a 300€ phone and my wife would have just okayed it, ... Jan 03 04:46:22 pupnik, but replacing the Samsung after one year is "family politically" a non-starter ;) Jan 03 04:46:51 good! Jan 03 04:47:05 * yacc just realized that the same game is played in his family that was played by his parents when he was a kid. Jan 03 04:47:20 :) .. that's a well-styled phone! Jan 03 04:47:41 Was the same discussions how to argue that you need toy X, not about the money, *sigh* Jan 03 04:47:52 well, the Samsung sucks. Jan 03 04:48:34 E.g. it does not support most of the claimed codecs. At least not when ffmpeg, mencoder or vlc are used to generate the videos. Jan 03 04:48:51 oh dear Jan 03 04:49:13 "Touchwiz OS" Jan 03 04:49:25 Might be that it does support the codecs, but if so, then it has some side conditions like specific bitrates, that are not documented, ... Jan 03 04:49:56 So after a very frustrated afternoon I've postponed my project to put all of Spongebob onto the memory card, ... Jan 03 04:50:11 what is the best unicode word processor for maemo ? Jan 03 04:50:11 http://forum.dailymobile.se/index.php?topic=10224.0 great lookin cheapo device Jan 03 04:50:29 daxt_, you really want to do wordprocessing on that keyboard? Jan 03 04:50:51 yacc: here's another great looking 100 euro phone http://images.pricerunner.com/product/image/135171017/LG-GD880-Mini.jpg Jan 03 04:50:53 yacc no i want it to render my unicode fonts properly when i open files :D Jan 03 04:51:14 It's a really nice keyboard, for messaging, or emergency ssh hacks, ... Jan 03 04:51:27 good morning Jan 03 04:51:27 i tried freoffice and it really sux when come to rendering unicode Jan 03 04:51:31 moin Termana Jan 03 04:51:57 pupnik, yeah, but you get acceptable Android devices slightly over 100€ Jan 03 04:52:19 Actually if you can accept a "noname" device, Vodafone sells one for 100€ straight. Jan 03 04:53:08 Ok, I think I'm gonna crash now for a couple of hours. Jan 03 04:53:55 anybody care to help me to find a good word processor that renders unicode properly ??? Jan 03 04:54:16 Tried abiword? Jan 03 04:54:24 ok, night. Jan 03 04:55:13 cannot install abiword , unsatisfied dependancies :( Jan 03 04:55:22 repository problem ? Jan 03 04:57:52 use apt-get and install the dependencies manually Jan 03 05:01:40 Anyone know anything about any efforts at running maemo on a droid or droid 2? Google failed me once again :/ Jan 03 05:02:32 nightwalk: none Jan 03 05:02:35 nightwalk: i'm not aware of maemo5 running on any other devices Jan 03 05:02:37 that would be copyright infringement Jan 03 05:02:42 nightwalk, no efforts that I know of Jan 03 05:02:46 it would also be a waste of time since Maemo is DEAD Jan 03 05:02:56 luke-jr, don't be silly, no one would not do it because of that Jan 03 05:03:03 luke-jr, eg. Zoom2 port Jan 03 05:03:06 luke-jr: 'copyright infringement'? how so? Jan 03 05:03:29 GPL'ed code can be used anywhere Jan 03 05:03:32 nightwalk: Maemo is proprietary Nokia "intellectual property"; someone would need to license it Jan 03 05:03:40 and Nokia is unlikely to do that especially for a dead platform Jan 03 05:03:48 Maemo isn't GPL Jan 03 05:04:01 maybe 40% of it is free software Jan 03 05:04:04 it's FUBAR Jan 03 05:04:09 jk :p Jan 03 05:04:17 :p Jan 03 05:04:20 47 iirc Jan 03 05:04:25 ~openness Jan 03 05:04:26 openness is, like, http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html Jan 03 05:04:33 Ok...fine...the bits that *are* GPL (which is almost everything) have to have the source made available, and can be used anywhere, for (almost) anything Jan 03 05:04:46 nightwalk: but 47% of Maemo isn't Maemo Jan 03 05:04:57 it's Mer Jan 03 05:05:02 and that's discontinued too Jan 03 05:05:02 heh Jan 03 05:05:14 thinking of continuing it Jan 03 05:05:37 * luke-jr gives MohammadAG a weird look Jan 03 05:05:37 Irrelevant. All someone like me would need are the basics to have been taken care of. You know....what desktop distros do ;) Jan 03 05:05:53 nightwalk: the basics aren't GPL Jan 03 05:05:58 Well...except that maemo is .deb-based I guess. Worst package format ever Jan 03 05:06:03 LOL fail Jan 03 05:06:07 MohammadAG, I got a call today from a mental hospital saying they were looking for someone in #maemo Jan 03 05:06:13 MohammadAG, I think I know who it is now Jan 03 05:06:18 .deb is basically the best, for binaris Jan 03 05:06:18 nightwalk, you want me to hate you right? Jan 03 05:06:35 Termana, infobot? Jan 03 05:06:49 heh no. Jan 03 05:06:49 luke-jr: .deb is the hardest-to-make of the bunch, and dpkg wedges *constantly* Jan 03 05:06:51 MohammadAG: he's joking Jan 03 05:06:52 he has to be Jan 03 05:06:56 Termana, you? Jan 03 05:07:13 MohammadAG, someone closer to your side of the world Jan 03 05:07:21 nightwalk, hardest = 3 minutes for me Jan 03 05:07:30 Can't do this because of package installations being partially completed...can't uninstall because of package installs only partially completed....utter stupidity Jan 03 05:07:31 someone with the name Mohammad Jan 03 05:07:32 Termana, I have no children Jan 03 05:07:42 or grandchildren Jan 03 05:08:04 last name starts with a A ends with an H Jan 03 05:08:05 * luke-jr wonders how one would get grandchildren without children Jan 03 05:08:08 a H* Jan 03 05:08:14 an A* Jan 03 05:08:14 MohammadAG: not talking about checkinstall. Checkinstall is a shoddy way to build packages Jan 03 05:08:30 wtf is checkinstall Jan 03 05:08:37 MohammadAG: checkinstall is easy Jan 03 05:08:42 Termana, sorry, my name ends with H Jan 03 05:08:43 checkinstall make install Jan 03 05:08:45 instant package Jan 03 05:08:55 Builds half-a**ed packages Jan 03 05:08:57 3 minutes without it Jan 03 05:09:07 don't use it, sorry, not a lazy ass dev Jan 03 05:09:24 MohammadAG, also, I ended up using Google Apps for my domain email. Gmail can sync using the exchange protocol (Google Sync). Jan 03 05:09:24 MohammadAG: yes you are! Jan 03 05:09:25 Not saying rpms are great or anything, but at least everything that has to be changed is in a single file Jan 03 05:09:39 nightwalk: ebuild ftw!@ Jan 03 05:09:41 ...and rpm lets me --force things without deleting scriptlets from the filesystem first Jan 03 05:09:53 dpkg has --force... Jan 03 05:09:58 rpm is retarded Jan 03 05:10:01 luke-jr, let me guess - anyone who doesn't build from source is lazy? Jan 03 05:10:02 :p Jan 03 05:10:17 Termana: only if they neglect the pizza Jan 03 05:10:43 dpkg has --force...*now*. in-place upgrading from one version of ubuntu to another still results in deadlocks that require scriptlets to be deleted before the process can continue, though Jan 03 05:11:05 nope Jan 03 05:11:05 mmmm, pizza Jan 03 05:11:08 nightwalk: you're not supposed to do that. and Ubuntu sucks in general. Jan 03 05:11:11 upgrading works fine for me Jan 03 05:11:12 Ubuntu != .deb Jan 03 05:11:15 Kind of made me glad maemo is going extinct in favor of meego, and that meego adopted rpm as it's package manager :) Jan 03 05:11:16 indeed Jan 03 05:11:27 Maemo 6 <3 Jan 03 05:11:29 in-place upgrades are how it's supposed to be Jan 03 05:11:37 RPM's are retarded Jan 03 05:11:41 and i have to agree, .deb is an annoying fucking bitch to package Jan 03 05:11:41 There's no technical reason for distro version numbers anymore Jan 03 05:11:49 nightwalk: LOL, you have no idea Jan 03 05:11:53 Is there going to be any further development of Maemo at all? Jan 03 05:12:00 toresbe, yes Jan 03 05:12:03 but i don't have enough experience with binary packaging systems to state if it is better or worse than others Jan 03 05:12:04 and it'll use debs Jan 03 05:12:09 nightwalk: you've never heard of ABI, have you? Jan 03 05:12:10 that's why i love it Jan 03 05:12:12 oh, goodie. Jan 03 05:12:14 what, deb is a bitch to package?? it's a walk in the park compared to RPM! Jan 03 05:12:25 RPMs are abhorrent. Jan 03 05:12:38 I thought they shelved Maemo 6 for Meego? Jan 03 05:12:51 that sounds correct. Jan 03 05:12:53 luke-jr: oh...I have a way better idea than you might think. I have to manage a ton of customizations to an upstream distro that basically make it different enough to be its own distro, *and* I have to re-base on newer upstream releases from time to time Jan 03 05:13:00 nightwalk, also, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Mohammad7410/Packaging Jan 03 05:13:07 Is there an ETA on Maemo 6? Jan 03 05:13:12 yes Jan 03 05:13:15 nightwalk: thanks for verifying that you have no idea Jan 03 05:13:18 debs take 30minutes and a lot of reference lookup and copy/paste in order to get something to package... once you've done that leg work, then it's 3min to push out a new revision if the deps and such are unchanged Jan 03 05:13:28 return N9ReleaseDate(); Jan 03 05:13:41 N9ReleaseDate is undefined, so, yeah Jan 03 05:14:01 ieatlint, nah Jan 03 05:14:08 generate stuff manually Jan 03 05:14:11 won't the N9 ship with Meego? Jan 03 05:14:12 luke-jr: why? because I happen to manage a custom rpm-based distro? Jan 03 05:14:14 automatically* Jan 03 05:14:22 toresbe, no, Harmattan Jan 03 05:14:32 nightwalk: because you think forking Ubuntu is qualification Jan 03 05:14:37 i'd buy one with angstrom Jan 03 05:14:40 toresbe, or MeeGo-Harmattan Jan 03 05:14:41 ieatlint: 3 minutes *if* you know sed syntax, maybe :) Jan 03 05:14:47 naming isn't important Jan 03 05:14:52 but it'll use debs Jan 03 05:15:04 luke-jr: uhh...no. Ubuntu isn't rpm-based. Jan 03 05:15:24 MohammadAG: maybe for you, when you've been doing it a lot and are very familiar with it... the rest of us see a annoying learning curve with a wall of text and conflicting information Jan 03 05:15:25 ubuntu uses .deb's, and after learning to make them, there's no way I'd want to manage a deb-based distro Jan 03 05:15:38 nightwalk: well, forking any distro for that matter Jan 03 05:15:42 ever notice that there are at least half a dozen .deb packaging guides on the maemo wiki alone? Jan 03 05:15:46 Oh wait. Maemo 6 == Meego 1? I'm ...confused Jan 03 05:15:54 no Jan 03 05:16:00 and try to follow a non-maemo guide, and you're even more fucked Jan 03 05:16:01 Maemo 6 == MeeGo fork 1 Jan 03 05:16:09 ieatlint: oops...forgot, there are subdirs in the debian/ dir. find + sed syntax :) Jan 03 05:16:50 wtf nightwalk ? Jan 03 05:17:03 you don't need subdirs in debian/ Jan 03 05:17:07 my only other experience with "packaging" software are ebuilds... and they're a fuck of a lot easier Jan 03 05:17:20 luke-jr: I didn't fork because I wanted to. I forked because it's what the client wanted, and I haven't been able to break them of their roll-your-own attitude yet Jan 03 05:17:34 nightwalk: you still don't have a clue Jan 03 05:18:02 nightwalk, I'll give you steps to build a kernel Jan 03 05:18:09 make menuconfig Jan 03 05:18:20 However, knowing what I know now, if they told me they wanted me to switch it all to a deb-based distro, I'd find a way to be more persuasive Jan 03 05:18:35 make bzImage Jan 03 05:18:38 MohammadAG: kernel has a builddeb script Jan 03 05:18:41 do that with maemo's kernel, and meego's kernel Jan 03 05:18:51 nightwalk, ok, build the meego kernel Jan 03 05:18:53 heh, anyway, i don't know rpms, or other more obscure ones, so i can't compare Jan 03 05:19:04 but you're kidding yourself to say that .deb is clean and simple :P Jan 03 05:19:22 luke-jr: funny how you make the same accusation without any reference material. I think you're just taking it a tad too personally. Jan 03 05:19:24 nope, find it a lot better than RPM Jan 03 05:20:01 nightwalk: this is linux/oss ... we take everything personally Jan 03 05:20:17 Personally, I like the pacman philosophy better than anything. The distro surrounding it (Arch) needs to mature a bit more before I can recommend it, though Jan 03 05:20:50 nightwalk: well I just run Gentoo on my N810 and N900 so there Jan 03 05:21:10 luke-jr: hey...it's gotta be better than android :) Jan 03 05:21:34 yeah, cuz android uses rpm Jan 03 05:22:00 I'm so *not* impressed by android on this droid 2 right now. Trouble is, I need to run something else to figure out whether it's the hardware to blame, or the software :/ Jan 03 05:22:57 Yeah, well bitches I'm going to run OpenBSD on an OQO 02. Suck on that Jan 03 05:23:13 Termana: buy me one? Jan 03 05:23:15 please Jan 03 05:23:23 isn't the OQO's dead? Jan 03 05:23:25 you're only fucking yourself over; go right ahead Jan 03 05:23:26 probably Jan 03 05:23:33 I just want to rant about it's non-free parts Jan 03 05:23:36 lol Jan 03 05:23:39 ds3, there's about 15 being sold on ebay at the moment Jan 03 05:23:49 used Jan 03 05:23:54 a few new Jan 03 05:23:55 (you know i would) Jan 03 05:23:59 Look...I don't care *what* you guys run, so long as you release the code, and it never translates to me ever having to build a .deb Jan 03 05:24:14 * luke-jr votes we force nightwalk to build debs for the rest of his life Jan 03 05:24:20 O_O Jan 03 05:24:22 Termana: but they aren't being made anymore, right? Jan 03 05:24:26 Couldn't you just shoot me instead? Jan 03 05:24:35 nightwalk: no, that'd be a sin Jan 03 05:24:48 ds3, nope. Which is why I want to get money quickly and get one, before no one is selling them second hand anymore :p Jan 03 05:25:19 Maybe I'll run MINIX on one and send it to luke-jr Jan 03 05:25:20 and making .deb's aren't? The devil hisself created it, after all :P Jan 03 05:25:24 Termana: I see... the reviews I remember reading it put it below a Z Jan 03 05:25:38 just use tgz's Jan 03 05:25:44 loose this silly packaging crap Jan 03 05:25:45 :D Jan 03 05:25:59 SLS 4 EVER! Jan 03 05:26:04 Not really sure why more distros haven't done that Jan 03 05:26:13 Termana: run freedos Jan 03 05:26:20 it's reliable, and open Jan 03 05:26:26 There's nothing that says the auto-dependency stuff has to live in the same file as the payload, after all Jan 03 05:26:27 * luke-jr pretends ds3 doesn't exist. Jan 03 05:26:32 Termana: what processor is in that OQO? Jan 03 05:26:39 Err....be embedded in the payload packaging, rather... Jan 03 05:26:41 SLS was a FINE distro :P Jan 03 05:27:00 ds3, depends which one you get. Most of the ones being sold on ebay are 02s with VIA processors Jan 03 05:27:04 (x86) Jan 03 05:27:20 * nightwalk shudders at the thought of freedos on a phone Jan 03 05:27:41 go run freebsd... they're so cute because they're in more denial about how dead it is than most oss projects Jan 03 05:28:09 If someone feels like making *BSD work on the N900, feel free and I'll buy an N900 again instead and some beers for the person who does it Jan 03 05:28:11 ieatlint: you must be my twin or something :) Jan 03 05:28:29 Though fbsd might yet survive in the form of PCBSD Jan 03 05:28:34 Termana: C7's? Jan 03 05:28:36 nah, i just end up dealing with a lot of freebsd people Jan 03 05:28:50 Termana: in that case, wouldn't a WiBrain be better? Jan 03 05:28:57 ds3, C7M Jan 03 05:29:27 I'd rather see someone adapt a n900 to cdma...or for nokia to release a cdma n900 Jan 03 05:29:40 ds3, I don't know, maybe. What does the WiBrain have over the OQO though? Jan 03 05:29:59 Looks like it has a trackpad which is good. The OQO has a mouse knob Jan 03 05:30:02 The n900 is an awesome phone, but there aren't any gsm or wcdma carriers in this area T_T Jan 03 05:30:03 Termana: a bit newer I think and overall smaller Jan 03 05:30:17 and the WiBrain has a version that natively runs linux Jan 03 05:32:31 i'm more concerned about the network support for the n9... Jan 03 05:33:23 i'm sure it'll be gsm/umts, but fear which carriers it'll work with where i live Jan 03 05:33:36 nothing 4G? Jan 03 05:34:01 uh, LTE rollout is just starting i think Jan 03 05:34:47 nightwalk: where are you that you have no gsm? Jan 03 05:34:58 USA Jan 03 05:35:02 budfive: midwestern US. Jan 03 05:35:02 has basically no GSM Jan 03 05:35:13 nightwalk: heh? tmobile? att? Jan 03 05:35:13 luke-jr: uh... hardly Jan 03 05:35:22 the largest carrier in the USA is gsm/umts based even Jan 03 05:35:31 ieatlint: Sprint is CDMA Jan 03 05:35:32 budfive: tmobile has a presence, but coverage is dodgy at best Jan 03 05:35:51 Sprint is not the largest carrier in USA Jan 03 05:36:05 budfive: I'm in la and tmobile works great. ymmv i suppose Jan 03 05:36:17 There are basically two choices here: verizon, or sprint. Both are somewhat dodgy, but usable Jan 03 05:36:39 Verizon is going standard w/ 4G LTE Jan 03 05:36:40 This used to be an Alltel area, and under Alltel, I had almost perfect coverage Jan 03 05:36:43 * nightwalk sighs Jan 03 05:36:48 I miss Alltel... Jan 03 05:37:05 yeah, i hear verizon just started their LTE rollout, which is the first 4g network Jan 03 05:37:44 I care less about 4G than I do about them trying to force me to pay way too much for an 'unlimited' plan that has a pathetically low cap Jan 03 05:38:36 A 250G cap like comcast has is acceptable, 5G isn't by far Jan 03 05:39:17 Just casually watching youtube vids on the subway would eat that up in nothing flat. Jan 03 05:40:01 subway in the midwest? hah Jan 03 05:40:20 I can dream... Jan 03 05:40:44 jacekowski, ping Jan 03 05:40:53 Actually, one of the neighboring states is supposed to be starting on high speed rails in 2012 Jan 03 05:41:12 Not the right solution, but it should still help out the economy in this region Jan 03 05:41:48 ieatlint: Subways all over the midwest.. Jan 03 05:42:01 MohammadAG: I read through the link you sent. You're joking, right? That makes building .deb's seem even *more* difficult than I know they are :/ Jan 03 05:45:46 luke-jr, ieatlint: the US isn't nearly as progressive as some places. Sad fact is, most people in the US have their heads shoved too firmly up their own a**es to care whether or not other people have a decent way to work, whether they're polluting the environment, or whether they're wasting precious resources on less-than-optimal means of transit Jan 03 05:46:29 uh, all 3 of us live in the US... not sure we need that lecture Jan 03 05:47:13 Evidently you do, or you wouldn't be making fun of subways Jan 03 05:47:46 nightwalk, sorry if it scared you off, it's the way I package stuff :P Jan 03 05:48:06 eh, no matter where you are in the world, if you have a mass transit system, you inevitably complain about it Jan 03 05:48:13 :) Jan 03 05:48:20 MohammadAG: I keep waiting for someone to write a nice little wrapper so I don't have to even touch the debian/ directory ;) Jan 03 05:48:32 yeah let's see... we are using personal computers and the internet - invented in the US Jan 03 05:48:57 not entirely Jan 03 05:49:22 Invented by the military...for military purposes. Re-purposed by colleges, then re-re-purposed by big business to peddle their wares Jan 03 05:49:31 nightwalk, that might be easy to do... Jan 03 05:49:33 pretty sure it was al gore Jan 03 05:49:41 In fact, I'll consider it :P Jan 03 05:50:21 well Jan 03 05:50:22 MohammadAG: You'd certainly lessen the hate level in those of us who are anti-deb ;) Jan 03 05:50:25 all of it will be easy Jan 03 05:50:35 cept for debian/rules Jan 03 05:50:49 I mean, it's usually always the same Jan 03 05:51:43 Come to think of it, jbj was bouncing around the idea of merging .deb functionality into rpm a while back. Was kinda waiting to see if that materialized, too Jan 03 05:52:29 Probably won't for a while now though. Sources say he landed himself a gig that's keeping him from his side activities Jan 03 05:53:46 MohammadAG: anything is better than nothing. Jan 03 05:54:14 I'm a little surprised no one has extended alien to handling source packages, actually Jan 03 05:55:28 Converting between packages' metadata formats isn't exactly trivial, but it's not a hard problem either. Jan 03 06:05:52 Hmm, submission of my first 1000 word essay for Uni. I'm learning how to expand sentence with bullshit that unnecessarily elaborates on points and uses expanded vocabulary. :p Jan 03 06:06:00 sentences* Jan 03 06:08:03 Termana: just wait until you get to writing an article for a magazine or even worse a book. Jan 03 06:11:16 This study period I've taken Introduction to Information Technology and Learning and Communication Behaviour. Because I decided to take the uni placement over completing high school I was forced to take the second one (which is the one I'm doing the essay for), otherwise I'd be doing Intro to IT and Intro to Programming :p That would be much more fun :p Jan 03 06:13:35 You also get penalised for using to much wikipedia references :p Jan 03 06:14:47 is the a script for wh-701 headset to make the play-pause buttons to work on N900? Jan 03 06:18:33 wh-701 headset is awesome, it has a good Bass. Jan 03 06:19:06 I know there is a kind of code or script to make it work with N900. Jan 03 06:39:07 Here we go again. Another dead software since the developer deserted Maemo. Witter. RIP Jan 03 06:39:55 Both Facebrick and Witter are dead. Sucks. Jan 03 06:42:59 they quitL or just go to the new stuff? Jan 03 06:45:37 Well, DL the source, edit it yourself, and republish it. Jan 03 06:45:41 loft306, both have quit it seems. Jan 03 06:45:44 That's what OSS is all about Jan 03 07:27:45 anyone here speak swedish? Jan 03 07:28:43 ja Jan 03 07:29:01 > Visa en dialog för att ställa in serveralternativ när man läser in ett sparat spel. Jan 03 07:29:13 are all of those tokens words in Swedish? Jan 03 07:29:31 i know that in german it's ok to merge words to make longer words Jan 03 07:29:40 and i understand that swedish is a germanic language Jan 03 07:29:45 it's the same in swedish Jan 03 07:29:49 ok Jan 03 07:29:58 so "serveralternativ" is legal Jan 03 07:30:03 yeap Jan 03 07:30:06 thanks Jan 03 07:30:11 np Jan 03 07:30:37 * timeless_mbp wonders if anyone will ask where this question came from Jan 03 07:31:30 timeless_mbp: UI spec in Swedish? : P Jan 03 07:31:50 sandst1: no :) Jan 03 07:32:05 the question doesn't particularly relate to the string Jan 03 07:32:44 ookay :) Jan 03 07:33:30 http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&start=10&sa=N&q=serveral+-serveralert+-serveralias+-serverallowsresponsecachingforrequest+-serveralreadyactive+-serveralreadyregistered+-openssh+-serverallowsspawn Jan 03 07:33:42 it came from there :) Jan 03 07:36:27 Awesome, and somewhat relevant: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/12/what-happens-when-you-steal-a-hackers-computer/ Jan 03 07:37:18 someone forgot to swap the drive for spare parts ;-) Jan 03 07:38:28 Yea Jan 03 07:39:13 You -always- wipe things that you get used. It's just common sense. Jan 03 07:41:07 * timeless_mbp gets totally confused Jan 03 07:42:40 oh grr Jan 03 07:42:43 * timeless_mbp cries Jan 03 07:42:51 this isn't the right directory Jan 03 07:43:03 nope, this is irc Jan 03 07:43:22 we don't even have directories, we have channels Jan 03 07:43:53 thanks Jan 03 07:44:38 http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/search?string=serveral&filter=\bserveral\b Jan 03 07:44:53 is the meego equivalent of my google codesearch Jan 03 07:45:02 oh joy Jan 03 07:45:09 * timeless_mbp likes the tracker po Jan 03 07:45:27 * timeless_mbp presumes that means someone eventually fixed en Jan 03 07:51:14 Well. Moorning. Jan 03 07:52:21 * timeless_mbp likes http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpmlint-0.92/TagsCheck.py?raw=1#352 Jan 03 07:52:48 it complains when people write "serveral" in their descriptions :) Jan 03 08:06:43 Anyone knows WTF is going on with the repos? apt-get is replacing a bunch of the same packages for the second day in a row Jan 03 08:11:09 huh... updates? Jan 03 08:12:32 heh Jan 03 08:33:35 RST38h, what repos do you have enabled? Jan 03 08:34:13 yacc: the usual Jan 03 08:35:23 morning, HNY'11 Jan 03 08:35:32 hny to you too hrw Jan 03 09:18:38 morning Jan 03 09:27:22 morning Jan 03 09:29:42 guyz , what is the default font in maemo , and how do i change it ? Jan 03 09:30:27 daxt: default is Nokia Sans Jan 03 09:30:45 i want to change it to on my own unicode font Jan 03 09:30:49 is it possible ? Jan 03 09:30:51 daxt: about how to change, use the power search feature on tmo Jan 03 09:31:02 tmo ? Jan 03 09:32:01 crashanddie, did you see that the injection drivers have been opened now? Jan 03 09:32:10 I did not, good news though Jan 03 09:32:20 daxt: http://talk.maemo.org Jan 03 09:32:27 oh Jan 03 09:32:29 thanks Jan 03 09:32:51 crashanddie, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67554 Jan 03 09:37:44 woah, trollfest Jan 03 09:38:31 crashanddie, need some quick help with C++ Jan 03 09:38:48 shoot in other channel Jan 03 09:41:12 MohammadAG: what's the question? Jan 03 09:42:25 boy i gotta be careful what channel i talk to Venemo_N900 in now Jan 03 09:42:29 they look so similar ::) Jan 03 09:42:40 hehe pupnik Jan 03 09:43:19 Termana, well, technically, he can't demand payment for the source Jan 03 09:44:34 Termana, he can ask for a fee to cover his costs to distribute the source, but requiring donations isn't allowed. Jan 03 09:45:56 man shouldve required donations for ppl to dl fmms Jan 03 09:46:01 i wouldve been a rich man by now for sure Jan 03 09:46:41 crashanddie, hm, but he doesn't need to give the source to anyone other than the ones that have received an offer for it, that is, anyone who has the resulting binary as well.. Jan 03 09:47:05 crashanddie, of course, nothing prevents a person from redistributing the source once he gets it Jan 03 09:47:22 erhm, no Jan 03 09:47:44 who has an unmodified US device? Jan 03 09:47:45 flux, the binary has already been widely distributed, whether directly through him or not (see neopwn project) Jan 03 09:47:53 by unmodified I mean no custom FMTX stuff Jan 03 09:47:54 crashanddie, oh, I wasn't aware of that Jan 03 09:48:01 frals: See my donation framework for maemo.org... Jan 03 09:48:24 frals, and you'd need to support us :P Jan 03 09:48:25 crashanddie, in any case, it should be the distributors of neopwn that should be distributing the source Jan 03 09:48:28 crashanddie: Don't suppose you fancy getting stuck into some MWKN issue editing? It's a bumper issue and just needs a few items fleshed out Jan 03 09:48:47 Jaffa, now? Jan 03 09:48:49 Jaffa: where can I see it? /me has been off maemo.org for the last 2 months Jan 03 09:48:59 MohammadAG: nevah! ;) Jan 03 09:49:07 MohammadAG: i already do enough supporting ;( Jan 03 09:49:29 frals, well, you need to accept more bug reports if fMMS was paid Jan 03 09:49:30 flux, yeah, and I've upheld that for quite some time :) Jan 03 09:49:43 I received a pic of my gf, why wasn't it naked? fMMS sucks Jan 03 09:49:51 MohammadAG: not paid, "donationware" ;) Jan 03 09:49:54 crashanddie, for a start, he didn't distribute it, Neopwn did so he does NOT have to give the source to whoever received a binary from Neopwn. Secondly, what he is doing is copyright infringement anyhow - see the discussion last night for an in-depth view Jan 03 09:50:11 lol MohammadAG Jan 03 09:50:19 who's "he" doing copyright infringement? David? Jan 03 09:50:22 frals, should I file a bug for it? Jan 03 09:50:28 MohammadAG: no :( Jan 03 09:50:42 trouts suck!1! Jan 03 09:50:43 got some many bugs i need to triage already ;( Jan 03 09:50:43 crashanddie, the current person distributing it when someone donates to him (the source and binary) Jan 03 09:50:56 oh Jan 03 09:50:56 ixp or whatever Jan 03 09:50:59 lxp Jan 03 09:51:00 lxp Jan 03 09:51:07 right lxp Jan 03 09:51:11 * MohammadAG points frals to the weed of bugtracking Jan 03 09:51:14 WONTFIX Jan 03 09:51:22 Termana, it's a bloody nightmare, that's what it is Jan 03 09:51:24 MohammadAG: you have a gf? Jan 03 09:51:26 MohammadAG: INVALID is better Jan 03 09:51:28 Termana, and a rightful shame Jan 03 09:51:35 frals, WONTFIX!!1 Jan 03 09:51:44 Venemo_N900, yeah, she has five fingers and access to lube. Jan 03 09:51:52 Venemo_N900, not in the sense of a gf in other countries, but yeah Jan 03 09:51:55 crashanddie, piss off :P Jan 03 09:51:59 lol crashanddie Jan 03 09:52:11 Jaffa, you need help now? Jan 03 09:52:45 MohammadAG: well if not in that sense, then I can understand why her picture was not naked. Jan 03 09:53:09 crashanddie, I want to see the lawsuits from this. lxp sues neopwn for breach of contract, neopwn sues lxp for copyright infringement, kernel developers sue neopwn for copyright infringement Jan 03 09:53:11 DING DING! Jan 03 09:53:22 MohammadAG: this is the situation when devs say, "fix your own bug man!" Jan 03 09:53:34 Termana, they're all in different countries as far as I can tell Jan 03 09:53:45 hehehe Jan 03 09:53:46 Even more interesting! :p Jan 03 09:54:02 MohammadAG: crashanddie If you've time Jan 03 09:54:11 Termana, kernel devs are in sweden/northern europe, david is in germany (telling from his name), and neopwn is in the US Jan 03 09:54:22 Jaffa, before that, one question, is ln -s in the postinst necessary? it makes installation fail Jan 03 09:54:27 Jaffa, send link, I'll see what I can do Jan 03 09:54:31 frals: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-January/023980.html Jan 03 09:54:37 MohammadAG: It is necessary. I'm fixing it now. Jan 03 09:56:45 hey i'm using PR 1.3 Jan 03 09:57:03 does the Matan's Hildon-desktop fix really work to reduce CPU usage for PR 1.3 ? Jan 03 09:57:08 Jaffa, :) Jan 03 09:57:15 I'm using the soon to be launched PR1.3.3.7 Jan 03 09:57:30 i was trying to explain ... Jan 03 09:57:54 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/matan/ << this one Jan 03 09:58:02 xDaReaperx: Matan's patches have nothing to do with cpu use Jan 03 09:58:02 MohammadAG please help Jan 03 09:58:04 Jaffa: :) was it ever implemented or acted on? Jan 03 09:58:13 Okay what does it do ? Jan 03 09:58:31 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/matan/hildon-desktop_matan_2.2.140-1+0m5_armel.deb Jan 03 09:58:40 is what you need I suppose Jan 03 09:58:40 xDaReaperx: read the article titled "modified hildon desktop" in the wiki Jan 03 09:58:46 okay Jan 03 09:58:47 they're not matan's patches Jan 03 09:58:50 they're madam's Jan 03 09:58:58 and that's a modified modified hildon-desktop Jan 03 09:58:58 frals: It's on the maemo.org roadmap and was accepted by the maemo.org team as part of the brainstorm. Jan 03 09:59:02 modified x2 intended Jan 03 09:59:07 uhm okay Jan 03 09:59:49 I'm using the soon to be launched PR1.3.3.7 <-- I see what you did there Jan 03 09:59:53 :p Jan 03 10:00:19 Termana, that's my SSU number :P Jan 03 10:00:26 l33t ? Jan 03 10:00:38 MohammadAG: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/community-ssu-enabler/merge_requests/2 Jan 03 10:01:32 what's SSU ? Jan 03 10:03:20 okay if i do this to disable auto updates : gconftool -s --type int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 1440000 Jan 03 10:03:24 ~ssu Jan 03 10:03:25 ssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU Jan 03 10:03:25 how do i enable it ? Jan 03 10:03:35 that doesn't disable it Jan 03 10:03:48 how do i disable ? Jan 03 10:03:51 just sets refresh rate to some ridiculously huge number Jan 03 10:03:52 First you must give your first born to MohammadAG Jan 03 10:04:09 o_O Jan 03 10:04:26 is there a way to disable it ? Jan 03 10:04:36 no Jan 03 10:04:39 no Jan 03 10:04:41 cause it does freez my phone Jan 03 10:05:08 xDaReaperx: you can disable it with a hammer Jan 03 10:05:27 ? Jan 03 10:05:29 after you smash the N900, I guarantee that it'll never try to update again Jan 03 10:05:30 You can also try taking it out of the freezer Jan 03 10:05:35 So it's not frozen Jan 03 10:05:51 yes Termana Jan 03 10:06:17 i don't appreciate trolls Jan 03 10:06:23 xDaReaperx: Define "freeze" Jan 03 10:06:28 xDaReaperx: Have you reflashed? Jan 03 10:06:44 Venemo_N900, aww, see that - try and have a little fun and suddenly we're trolls Jan 03 10:07:00 No i did not reflash ... , freeze meaning it hangs the phone.. kind of high CPU usage Jan 03 10:07:04 Looks like some people can't take a joke Jan 03 10:07:05 only when i connect to the internet Jan 03 10:08:02 MohammadAG: Sorry for the fsck-up. Will try harder in future ;-) Jan 03 10:08:17 hehe, no worries Jan 03 10:08:25 I'm trying to figure something out Jan 03 10:08:32 since I can't remember it too well Jan 03 10:08:42 on US devices, is the FMTX missing all even numbers? Jan 03 10:08:54 i.e *.0/2/4/6/8? Jan 03 10:09:09 @Termana : Cliche .... Jan 03 10:13:42 'lo Jan 03 10:21:10 when was the launch of the N900? Jan 03 10:21:15 december 2009? Jan 03 10:21:16 Or 2010? Jan 03 10:21:19 err, 2008 Jan 03 10:21:38 2009 Jan 03 10:21:46 and november i think Jan 03 10:21:48 so just over a year ago Jan 03 10:21:48 November 2009 Jan 03 10:21:51 crashanddie: Launch was September 2009 at Nokia World Jan 03 10:21:56 aye Jan 03 10:22:01 that was announcement no? Jan 03 10:22:03 well, retail availability, nov :P Jan 03 10:22:03 crashanddie: General availability was about November Jan 03 10:22:04 just trying to remember how many years ago the summit was Jan 03 10:22:29 * MohammadAG got his shipped from amazon after two weeks of delays Jan 03 10:22:36 crashanddie: Berlin (first): September 2008. Amsterdam (second): October 2009. Dublin (MeeGo): October 2010. Jan 03 10:22:40 ask a simple question, get 10 pedantic and slightly conflicting responses that are somewhat correct... yay geeks Jan 03 10:22:46 s/October 2010/November 2010/ Jan 03 10:22:47 Jaffa meant: crashanddie: Berlin (first): September 2008. Amsterdam (second): October 2009. Dublin (MeeGo): November 2010. Jan 03 10:22:58 crashanddie: Ambiguous question ;-) Jan 03 10:23:37 San Fransisco: May 2011 Jan 03 10:24:07 Jaffa, can you proofread the stuff I've added? Jan 03 10:24:07 woo... i'll be able to afford to go to that one Jan 03 10:24:15 Jaffa, I've done it real quick, while I'm on a conf call Jan 03 10:27:50 crashanddie: Much appreciated. Will give it a scan through now. Jan 03 10:28:10 crashanddie: Just sorting the children first. Jan 03 10:28:54 Jaffa, still on holiday? You lazy sod :P Jan 03 10:29:04 oh right, Monday -- cuz Saturday was a day off Jan 03 10:29:11 Damn I love that rule in the UK Jan 03 10:30:03 crashie "saturday was a day off"? Jan 03 10:32:11 crashanddie: Aye :-) Jan 03 10:32:26 crashanddie: Although I am a lazy sod. Mrs Jaffa is upstairs painting the eldest's new bedroom Jan 03 10:32:36 crashanddie: Jaffalets are in front of cbeebies Jan 03 10:33:10 wouldn't they technically be tangerines? Jan 03 10:33:19 :) Jan 03 10:33:45 Jaffa, are you lazy enough to be in bed typing though?! Jan 03 10:33:54 lcuk: No, I'm dressed & typing :-) Jan 03 10:34:05 lcuk: Lazy enough to get crashanddie to finish MWKN for me, tho' Jan 03 10:34:13 heh Jan 03 10:38:57 crashanddie: Perfect. Thanks. Jan 03 10:39:34 Jaffa: lol at "Mrs Jaffa" Jan 03 10:40:01 http://www.jwz.org/doc/censorzilla.html Jan 03 10:40:16 And especially: ns/cmd/macfe/central/medithyper.cp PissOnThisDocument(fHContext); Jan 03 10:44:54 tybollt_, in the UK, when a bank or public holiday falls on the weekend, the next Monday is usually a day off Jan 03 10:46:47 Jaffa, glad I could help Jan 03 10:48:16 crashanddie: The only bank holidays that can do that are Christmas Day, Boxing Day & New Year's Day. All the others are on fixed days of the week (but not fixed dates) Jan 03 10:48:43 tybollt_: So Monday/Tuesday last week, and today are all national holidays. Jan 03 10:49:18 armistice day? Jan 03 10:50:09 ieatlint: Not a national holiday. Jan 03 10:50:33 huh... thought it was in every allied nation Jan 03 10:58:04 ieatlint: There're services of commemaration and a two minute silence; but not a day off work. Jan 03 10:58:53 * Jaffa ponders giving Android a go. Jan 03 12:20:01 Is it possible to have multiple kernels installed and to choose them when I boot up(like in GRUB)? Jan 03 12:23:07 * pupnik plays Beach Boys - Wouldn't it be Nice Jan 03 12:28:07 NIN101: That's what the two bootloader systems do - Multiboot writes a new kernel to the kernel partition, and the other one(I forget the name, support was added in PR1.3) just chainloads a kernel Jan 03 12:28:37 ShadowJK: you said that moving .config/gpodder to the microsd or emmc improves download performance? Jan 03 12:29:05 thp, well it stopped alot of the "stutter" in UI Jan 03 12:29:18 of other apps Jan 03 12:29:19 RobbieThe1st: uBot was the name Jan 03 12:29:20 NIN101: Uboot is the other one, and it can be made to have a menu Jan 03 12:29:24 uBoot Jan 03 12:29:26 Yea, thanks Jan 03 12:29:31 thx guy Jan 03 12:29:31 s Jan 03 12:29:44 ShadowJK: that's a good thing. i consider moving the db to MyDocs for a future version for other reasons :) Jan 03 12:29:51 multiboot is *BAD* (TM) Jan 03 12:30:20 ^^ It was used because it was the only thing we had. uBoot came along, and that's the new, much better solution Jan 03 12:30:33 yes Jan 03 12:30:45 thp, there's still a large noticeable gpodder UI pause whenever a download completes, but I haven't checked if gpodder is also blocking/"pausing" downloads during that time Jan 03 12:31:07 I don't say multi is stupid or poorly written. It's e real clever hack, just nasty to the bones Jan 03 12:32:41 thp, well at least ext3 can be somewhat vaguely trusted to not make your frequently in-place updated single file data store into $random or nulls whenever something goes wrong :-) Jan 03 12:32:47 I wouldn't put that much faith in vfat Jan 03 12:34:09 Nice clusterfuck example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/02/AR2011010202491.html?tid=iGoogle Jan 03 12:36:38 windows needs ext3 support Jan 03 12:37:09 RST38h: Eh, it's only $5bln. Jan 03 12:37:24 haha, installed uboot from the repo and now it frezes at "Starting kernel...", so I have to reflash :-) Jan 03 12:37:24 We need to stop use ext3 on flash also :-) Jan 03 12:38:12 and use what exactly :) Jan 03 12:38:14 ext2? Jan 03 12:38:50 ubifs Jan 03 12:38:51 Well that's the problem :) Jan 03 12:39:01 ext4? Jan 03 12:39:12 Yeah, onenand without FTL and running ubifs on it would be nice Jan 03 12:39:33 what about brtfs? Jan 03 12:39:41 if that idiot didn't get caught we could use reiserfs now Jan 03 12:39:54 *got Jan 03 12:39:57 MeeGo is doing btrfs which is a step up in performance, except when it decides to run slower than a Commodore64 tapedrive Jan 03 12:40:22 iirc reiserfs had ext2/ext3 class performance on flash last time I checked Jan 03 12:40:26 it = ? Jan 03 12:40:33 btrfs Jan 03 12:40:53 i thought btrfs was better than ubifs Jan 03 12:41:13 They aren't comparable Jan 03 12:41:27 deleted angry birds and now the auto-update suggests angry birds :) Jan 03 12:41:47 btrfs works on block devices, ubifs works on unsorted block devices which work on raw flash Jan 03 12:42:39 pexi: maybe uninstalling would have been method of choice, rather than deleting :-P Jan 03 12:42:45 what about ext4 vs btrfs Jan 03 12:43:21 doc, well.. i did that if i recall it right :p Jan 03 12:43:41 On big machines (well, things with real harddrives or real SSDs, and more than bare minimum ram) btrfs runs faster and also has other nice features Jan 03 12:44:08 in my benchmarks on mmc type devices, ext4 came out faster than btrfs... Jan 03 12:44:24 [2011-01-03 13:35:39] ext4? Jan 03 12:44:27 derf: Yes, but given the relative desolation of the whole place, they are probably running out of ways to waste it =) Jan 03 12:44:57 ShadowJK: what about mmc life span though? Jan 03 12:45:05 http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/12/awesome-iphone-controlled-beer-robot-with-air-cannon-web-cam/ Jan 03 12:45:48 RST38h: There's always graft and larceny! Jan 03 12:46:19 RST38h, so I've been writing a constant 2 megabytes/second to a 16 gigabyte sandisk for about a year now. Still going. Jan 03 12:46:40 ShadowJK: same amount of available space though? Jan 03 12:46:43 that's a lie! Jan 03 12:46:49 The card is not aware of available space Jan 03 12:46:55 derf: Kinda difficult to pilfer $5b still Jan 03 12:47:04 that's 61593gb, not 16 Jan 03 12:47:43 derf: But I am sure they can handle it, bring it on! =) Jan 03 12:47:53 Yeah so 61 terabytes written to it Jan 03 12:48:24 ShadowJK: I have been under impression that, as flash blocks go bad, they should be marked unsuable and the available space should decrease, no? Jan 03 12:48:31 RST38h: The banks here pilfered some $20tln. So they've got something to aspire to. Jan 03 12:48:34 it's a nilfs2 filesystem and an older kernel. Its garbage collection seems to run at a constant 2M/s or so :-) Jan 03 12:48:54 derf: Banks, of course, had much more fertile environment for this kinda thing Jan 03 12:49:09 amazingly rumour has it they are getting terribly more worse instead of better (regarding write rounds ) Jan 03 12:49:24 Doc: Yes and no Jan 03 12:49:40 RST38h, no they have spare blocks and when it runs out it runs slower and slower until it fails, at which point they usually do one of) a) report I/O error for the block in question b) hang indefinitely c) report i/o error for everything d) silently corrupt data Jan 03 12:49:50 Doc: Generally, the smaller flash cells become and the more charge levels are used per cell, the less reliable they will be Jan 03 12:50:19 ShadowJK: Sounds like scary crap Jan 03 12:50:46 It is. Jan 03 12:50:47 Some USB drives actually have vendor tools that could be used to reconfigure the drive as a 4G, but mostly the microcontroller is so crap it's not able to deal with that either Jan 03 12:50:48 you bet it is Jan 03 12:51:14 Doc: BUT, our Korean overlords are repeatedly assuring us that "improvements in technologies allow them to keep things reliable Jan 03 12:51:18 I think the "report shrinking space" was implemented in a single PCI-e connected enterprise class SLC device :-) Jan 03 12:51:25 there are also "vendor" tools to configure and sell 4GB as 16GB :-P Jan 03 12:51:47 sjk: o_O so 4G doesn't mandate new antenae etc? Just new microcontroller? Jan 03 12:52:06 ShadowJK: Hey, the OS itself should be able to maintain the list of bad blocks, done it for years with HDs Jan 03 12:52:15 Intel's SSD if predicting cells will die before the warranty expires switches to a slower but "better" wear-leveling algorithm, sacrificing performance for longevity :-) Jan 03 12:52:17 ShadowJK: So, I do not see how flash is different here Jan 03 12:52:31 http://www.mail-archive.com/devel@lists.laptop.org/msg24533.html Jan 03 12:52:33 See that Jan 03 12:52:37 RST38h, sure if you had some god damn access to the flash Jan 03 12:52:39 but it's behind the FTL Jan 03 12:52:43 on flash Jan 03 12:52:49 which randomizes LBA -> physical every time you touch the flash Jan 03 12:52:56 ShadowJK: Ah, true Jan 03 12:52:59 And the FTL in SDs may suck badly Jan 03 12:53:31 The above is tests from the olpc peeps on SD endurance Jan 03 12:53:37 Like, my card that does d)silently corrupt data has bad blocks showing up with the badblocks utility, but every pass of badblocks has the bad blocks in a new randomized position :-) Jan 03 12:54:23 that's coooool Jan 03 12:54:32 XD Jan 03 12:55:42 It's actually still almost half-usable as mp3 storage. There's just occasional blips and garbles :-) Jan 03 12:56:05 just those 16G cards where you surprisingly find block containing data @512MB is same content as block containing data @0 Jan 03 12:56:43 i.e the card reports 16GB but actually mirrors 512MB over the whole 16GB Jan 03 12:56:44 You are all scaring me. Jan 03 12:56:58 Evil, evil people. Jan 03 12:57:19 ShadowJK: comparing ext4 w/ btrfs for speed is mostly pointless Jan 03 12:57:26 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/pjd/papers/fast10-flash.pdf "Write Endurance in Flash Drives: Measurements and Analysis" Jan 03 12:57:28 btrfs is designed for reliability Jan 03 12:57:39 and other fancy things Jan 03 12:57:45 wl-kmod-5.60.48.36-1.meego.src.rpmhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=910436&postcount=54 -> what do you think? is he an idiot or he is an idiot? Jan 03 12:57:50 and it probably hasn't had time to be optimized Jan 03 12:57:59 sorry, bad copypaste Jan 03 12:58:00 Venemo: i think you should have included a space in "rpmhttp" :) Jan 03 12:58:03 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=910436&postcount=54 Jan 03 12:58:20 As far as CPU use goes, it's probably highly unoptimized Jan 03 12:58:25 timeless_mbp: ctrl+c sometimes does interesting things here :P Jan 03 12:58:25 but that's not the main issue Jan 03 12:58:50 Venemo: geneven pretty much went made lately Jan 03 12:58:57 s/made/mad Jan 03 12:59:07 Venemo: i think he meant 'underclocked' Jan 03 12:59:19 Venemo: **SIGH** Jan 03 12:59:25 Venemo: Please, excuse his regrettable condition and do not troll him too much. Jan 03 12:59:34 What I find annoying is that SD card flash tranlation layer is implementd in MC?Us, that could probably be reprogrammed to do fun stuff. Jan 03 12:59:49 * Venemo still thinks we should ban overclocking related topics in TMO Jan 03 12:59:51 SpeedEvil: like deadlock? :) Jan 03 13:00:04 nilfs2 which otherwise is the slowest in every benchmark is by pure accident very fast on mmc type storage :-) Jan 03 13:00:09 Venemo: but that's restricting freedom to be an idiot Jan 03 13:00:15 that's a violation of civil rights! Jan 03 13:00:29 the forum is full of people who overclock to 1 GHz and after a few months they come back and say hey, my device freezes all the time... Jan 03 13:00:38 heh Jan 03 13:00:42 timeless: Like implementing a native serial dataloger, or playing out raw audio with no other hardware, or getting out of the way, and just acting like a controller onto the raw NAND. Jan 03 13:00:50 and they say, NOOOO, it is not because I overclocked, because overclocking makes it smoother! he! Jan 03 13:00:57 i think we should be able to add tags to other posters Jan 03 13:01:09 so if 20 maemo people want to tag someone as "overclocker" Jan 03 13:01:11 timeless_mbp: no that's mere protection of my nerves. Nobody is allowed to injure my mood and tranquility Jan 03 13:01:11 that tag sticks Jan 03 13:01:31 fuck fuck fuck, quadruple fuck Jan 03 13:01:31 then we could query for people with and and show correlation :) Jan 03 13:01:39 Venemo, prooflink? Jan 03 13:01:47 Arkenoi: ? Jan 03 13:01:58 never seen complaints like that Jan 03 13:01:58 Stupid french government passed a new law that is going to need me to spend 7 hours in driving schools for my motorbike Jan 03 13:01:58 timeless_mbp: I second that Jan 03 13:02:13 DocScrutinizer: cool, can you poke someone to make it so? Jan 03 13:02:15 overclocking for year or so and happy with it :-) Jan 03 13:02:23 ME? Jan 03 13:02:38 Arkenoi: there are probably 50 different overclocking kernels Jan 03 13:03:05 DocScrutinizer: i firmly believe the forums don't exist Jan 03 13:03:10 please don't burst my bubble Jan 03 13:03:10 there's probably 50.000 different useage patterns with OC Jan 03 13:03:19 found lowest stable voltage for 950MHz, it is still lower than stock 600 Jan 03 13:03:23 I think the btrfs people are optimizing for either harddrives where you spend a shitload of effort in placing things optimally at write time (beacuse stuff is written less than they're read, and it costs time to seek around, so spend extra effort placing it "just right" on the disk), or for big fat juicy fast SSDs like OCZ Vertex or Intel M-25 that run their own filesystems internally anyway... mmc behaves exactly the opposite of a harddrive, you want to Jan 03 13:03:29 spend 0 effort on elaborate on-disk placement. Fragment the hell out of it when writing, because seeks during reads are mostly free but very expensive during writes Jan 03 13:03:33 so i doubt it will fry the device ever Jan 03 13:04:23 Arkenoi: that's like "I don't believe I'm going to die ever. I made it for xx years now without" Jan 03 13:04:32 * RST38h checked out Arkanoid's overclocked N900, it wasn't any smoother,expectedly Jan 03 13:04:44 That pdf that stskeeps originally linked and I pasted link to again a bit further up has more details on scheduling for mmc :-) Jan 03 13:05:15 DocScrutinizer, if it lasts one more year, that's quite enough Jan 03 13:05:17 I agree with DocScrutinizer51 Jan 03 13:05:19 I agree with DocScrutinizer Jan 03 13:05:20 Arkenoi: think of OC is doing to OMAP what smoking is going to do to you and your live span expected Jan 03 13:05:22 (tab fail) Jan 03 13:05:45 Venemo: not really Jan 03 13:05:55 all are same Jan 03 13:06:11 all are you, I know Jan 03 13:06:35 DocScrutinizer, ok, i think it does worth it. most of the time you won't even notice oc advantages, but there are some cases that are worth it. like heavy web page rendering and flash Jan 03 13:07:19 some video player issues are gone with OC as well Jan 03 13:07:32 Arkenoi: I completely agree OC *could* be a reasonable thing if for example you'd limit it to maybe 1min/h Jan 03 13:07:45 how come that I've never had such issues? Jan 03 13:07:50 overclocking a mobile phone? *headexplode* Jan 03 13:08:21 Arkenoi: 30% swappiness fixes the video player as well Jan 03 13:08:43 RST38h, actually swappiness tweak and fixed pulseaudio contribute more to general user experience Jan 03 13:08:49 yep Jan 03 13:08:53 * ShadowJK hasn't had any issues with video player? Jan 03 13:08:57 Fixed pulseaudio? Jan 03 13:08:59 Arkenoi: most useage patterns may do this limitation implicitly. Those who don't may see severe wear after months or years Jan 03 13:09:34 ShadowJK: 'fragment the hell out of it when writing' also implies that as reads are very fast, arbitrarily, you can spend a lot of effort per block write (128k or whatever) grabbing fragmented blocks in areas that you plan to 'erase'. Jan 03 13:09:37 * RST38h loudly wonders what kind of fun people find in arguing about overclocking Jan 03 13:09:44 RST38h, yep, there is a contributed pulseaudio package that reduces cpu use significantly Jan 03 13:10:03 SpeedEvil, yeah Jan 03 13:10:11 You have bought your N900. You have a right todo whatever you want with it. If you fry it, it is your personalproblem, period. Jan 03 13:10:19 Arkenoi: link? =) Jan 03 13:10:27 And if it goes wrong, you can sell it on ebay Jan 03 13:10:36 Yes. Or use it as a doorstop. Jan 03 13:10:49 RST38h, it is in my n900 faq on livejournal Jan 03 13:10:53 RST38h: or my problem when you sell it to me or come here whining Jan 03 13:11:07 So, I am not getting all this pseudo-religious "overclocking is evil evil evil" talk Jan 03 13:11:12 SpeedEvil, well, sequential write performance will drop by a factor of 5 perhaps.. It's a tradeoff really, do you want "OS drive" performance at 50 kilobytes per second with sequential write of 10M, or 1-2 Megabytes per second with sequential write of 2-3M per second? Jan 03 13:11:26 Saying it ONCE is enough. And whoever isn'tlistening is on his own anyway Jan 03 13:11:56 yeah Jan 03 13:11:58 Doc: 1) Don't buy unknown crap 2) When people come whining for whatever reason, tell them to kiss His Tentacledness ass. Jan 03 13:12:20 RST38h: aye sir Jan 03 13:15:40 Arkenoi: link to pulseaudio pls? Jan 03 13:20:56 That olpc thread is interesting read Jan 03 13:21:11 regarding NAND writes and avoiding useless block erase events: Is any of the drivers actually checking if the new data is just programming bits but doesn't need erasing bits? or does this just work on virgin sector tracking but not on bit level (for now, in current implementations)? Jan 03 13:21:37 one of them chose nilfs2 for his own setup to get away from the dreadful write latencies of other filesystems, exactly the reasons I use it on my sheevaplug squid spool server :-) Jan 03 13:26:52 aiui for example CAL is using "sectors" of fixed size for "key=0xdeadbeef" values, and always using the most recently written of multiple "sectors" with same key= label. Nevertheless if I'm going to change key=<0xFFFFF> to key=<0xFFFE> then there's no need to use a new sector, you can program-to-0 the one bit in existing sector, without erasing/rewriting whole block Jan 03 13:28:37 0xFFFE -> 0xFFFD won't work though, without a erase/rewrite or using a new "sector" Jan 03 13:30:25 test for OR == , if true just rewrite the original data Jan 03 13:31:17 that scheme applies only for SLC with erase-to-1 Jan 03 13:40:38 They don't have the ram to do a comparison of an entire eraseblock :-) Jan 03 13:41:21 ...and/or never thought of it Jan 03 13:41:24 ShadowJK: aah, yes. If you don't do it in a lil bit smarter way, then that's probably true Jan 03 13:41:33 Probably considering it to be toounlikely Jan 03 13:42:30 RST38h: well, for example on appending to files it's quite feasible Jan 03 13:43:14 Yeah appending is normally fine Jan 03 13:43:18 that'd be a management of virgin bytes though, not a mgmt of virgin bits Jan 03 13:43:37 still better than mgmt of virgin sectors Jan 03 13:43:38 yeah Jan 03 13:43:46 And sometimes you can be half-filling more than one eraseblock, check that pdf I linked, they reversed engineered 3 different usb drives Jan 03 13:44:20 sha\o/ Jan 03 13:44:25 ehh? Jan 03 13:44:30 ShadowJK: ^^^ Jan 03 13:44:45 * DocScrutinizer fetches hoover vacuum for kbd Jan 03 13:46:59 Arkanoid: At this rate, your epic mobile posts will end up at lurkmore. =) Jan 03 13:47:48 GAN900, ping Jan 03 13:49:32 merging contacts on N900 is not good specially with online accounts Jan 03 13:49:54 the conact stop updating the status of my frnd. Jan 03 13:50:35 the picture stays same the name stays same even when my frnd changes his nick name Jan 03 13:50:44 it wont change on N900. Jan 03 13:50:52 I hope they fix this Jan 03 13:51:22 I never merge contacts now ever. Jan 03 13:51:55 I keep skype contacts seprate from MSN and sepreate from facebook Jan 03 13:52:13 and also normal phone numbers i keep them alone Jan 03 13:52:31 even if the same contact over and over again. Jan 03 13:52:50 thats not practical ever. Jan 03 13:53:32 If you have two contacts with the same phone number, maemo just displays the phone number and not a name when he/she calls :-( Jan 03 13:53:34 once I merge a contact the status stops updating Jan 03 13:54:09 yeah I keep changing letters!! Jan 03 13:54:13 zzz Jan 03 13:54:39 I think they had difficulty deciding if it should be : (Skype: NA MSN: Offline Yahoo: Busy GTalk: Online) Jan 03 13:54:53 my frnd was asking me about his new profile picture Jan 03 13:55:06 I said to him it is the same one as before Jan 03 13:55:18 i idnt know he changed it!!!! Jan 03 13:55:29 Like how would it know if it should show yahoo msn gtalk or facebook profile pic :-) Jan 03 13:55:34 because N900 stoppd updating status of him Jan 03 13:55:37 but then I don't use these things :/ Jan 03 13:55:52 it nows my friend. Jan 03 13:56:15 specially facebook contacts Jan 03 13:56:32 my frnds change their profile picture time to time. Jan 03 13:56:59 if I dont merge the contacs it will update their new picture profile. Jan 03 13:57:00 Anyone got ideas how to get all the music back into Media Player? After updating to PR1.3, most of my music is not found by Media Player ... but it is all playable via Symphonie or other file based players Jan 03 13:57:15 but if I do merge them ! OMG Jan 03 13:57:23 stopps updating status. Jan 03 13:57:45 this needs fixing. Jan 03 13:58:13 also why I can't use only nickname to store a contact ??? Jan 03 13:58:32 do I really need firstname atleast!!?? Jan 03 13:59:13 when I edit a contact from facebook and try to save it ... BAM Jan 03 13:59:22 you need firt name!!! Jan 03 13:59:27 dazo: make sure you install aditional codec support as before Jan 03 13:59:55 dazo: it just doesn't play - or it's missing from the list? Jan 03 14:00:00 hate it! now all my conatcs are trippled!!! Jan 03 14:00:05 lol Jan 03 14:00:05 dazo: then just add one song/file (or copy one), so tracker will do a reindex Jan 03 14:00:25 I havde the same person three times!!!! heh Jan 03 14:00:41 one for skype and facebook and mobilenumber. Jan 03 14:00:57 lolloo: yeah, we got your point Jan 03 14:00:59 just for the sake of status update Jan 03 14:01:29 anyone complained about this? Jan 03 14:01:40 you did, 5 times in a row now Jan 03 14:01:46 or all of you not into facebook and skype Jan 03 14:02:03 DocScrutinizer: I've done that (adding needed codecs) as well ... I'll try to add a new song, even though I believe I tried that as well Jan 03 14:02:56 this should be filed as a bug to nokia! Jan 03 14:03:15 dazo: there are more "professional" ways to tell trackerd to start a scan. Don't ask me how's the exact cmdline incantation Jan 03 14:03:27 lolloo: so just do that!! Jan 03 14:03:41 I did send them email but no reply since Jan 03 14:03:42 DocScrutinizer: :) I had a little hope for the cmdline version though .... :) Jan 03 14:03:49 of coure after checking for similar tickets Jan 03 14:04:00 mmm Jan 03 14:04:01 lolloo: https://bugs.maemo.org/ Jan 03 14:05:15 any patch to fix this? Jan 03 14:05:24 or script ? Jan 03 14:05:39 lolloo: [2011-01-03 14:51:17] I think they had difficulty deciding if it should be : (Skype: NA MSN: Offline Yahoo: Busy GTalk: Online) Jan 03 14:05:41 like runing a script to do a manuel update. Jan 03 14:05:49 manual Jan 03 14:05:54 namual Jan 03 14:05:58 manual* Jan 03 14:06:00 he Jan 03 14:07:33 What should it do if he has different profile pic on Skype and facebook Jan 03 14:07:43 s/:/:/ Jan 03 14:07:43 DocScrutinizer meant: lolloo: [2011-01-03 14:51:17] I think they had difficulty deciding if it should be : (Skype: NA MSN: Offline Yahoo: Busy GTalk: Online) Jan 03 14:07:47 s/:/:/g Jan 03 14:07:47 DocScrutinizer meant: lolloo: [2011-01-03 14:51:17] I think they had difficulty deciding if it should be : (Skype: NA MSN: Offline Yahoo: Busy GTalk: Online) Jan 03 14:07:53 * timeless_xchat sighs Jan 03 14:07:58 it doesnt update!! Jan 03 14:08:11 thats why you shouldnt merge contatcs Jan 03 14:08:12 Could you answer the question instead of repeating yourself :-) Jan 03 14:08:35 lolloo: WE HAVE READ THAT LINE BY NOW Jan 03 14:08:45 :) Jan 03 14:08:46 * timeless_xchat debates filing a bug about omweather Jan 03 14:09:35 * trumee hopes one day opensync will able to talk to N900 over syncml. Jan 03 14:10:05 how can run my camera from N900 and stream it to vlc on my pc? Jan 03 14:10:54 is pr1.4 out? will it fix contact not updating the pic. Jan 03 14:11:08 lolloo: no. Jan 03 14:11:21 too bad oh well Jan 03 14:11:52 So do you want to have 7 different pictures there for all the different networks, or just one, and if just one, which one? Jan 03 14:12:16 ShadowJK: don't feed the troll! Jan 03 14:12:27 yes i want diferrent pictures for all networks Jan 03 14:12:43 facebook, skype, gtalk Jan 03 14:12:55 also diferent nicknames. Jan 03 14:13:36 but thats not the case, Jan 03 14:13:39 Hmm, i want to get rid of this nokia splashscreen on startup. I compiled a kernel on with CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y but I still see it, but a lot shorter. Seems that probably a deep hack is needed. Jan 03 14:14:04 NIN101: splashscreen? Jan 03 14:14:06 NIN101, It's probably first put there by the bootloader :-) Jan 03 14:14:10 NIN101: shaking hands? Jan 03 14:14:26 no, Nokia loader, the shaking hands just an avi which you can easily replace. Jan 03 14:14:33 I mean the Nokia logo Jan 03 14:14:37 I know Jan 03 14:14:42 like if i have a contact on facebook and i go edit it...and add a phone number, it stops updating after that. Jan 03 14:14:54 the NOKIA logo is put there by NOLO Jan 03 14:15:14 lolloo: who cares? Jan 03 14:15:19 lolloo: YESSIR, WE HEARD IT Jan 03 14:15:24 NIN101: you probably can't remove it Jan 03 14:15:41 you care about logo on a phone? hehe Jan 03 14:15:47 If so, the phone isn't that open. Jan 03 14:15:57 get a life Jan 03 14:16:00 I will look into NOLO. Jan 03 14:16:14 NIN101: NOLO is closed blob Jan 03 14:16:17 lolloo: you get a life Jan 03 14:16:19 damn :/ Jan 03 14:16:35 i do have life and frnds i care to see their status Jan 03 14:16:39 but it shouldn't mess with fb anyway Jan 03 14:16:43 not a nokia logo Jan 03 14:16:55 lolloo: STFU or +q Jan 03 14:17:09 yeah whatever geek Jan 03 14:18:16 NIN101: fb should replace/overwrite "NOKIA". iirc the jumping dots spoil fb console output Jan 03 14:18:54 NIN101: NOLO is the bootloader. It doesn't really interfere with linux console output Jan 03 14:19:24 Well it draws the Nokia logo there, and it's left there until Linux clears it or puts something else there.. Jan 03 14:19:37 exactly Jan 03 14:20:07 the jumping dots are animated straight onto the fb, so console output would make the current state of that animation scroll upward whenever text scrolls :P Jan 03 14:20:11 for powerkernel I seem to recall this kinda works for me Jan 03 14:20:46 ShadowJK: yeah, that's annoying Jan 03 14:21:09 jumping dots are in the initscripts somewhere.. Jan 03 14:21:29 anyway I'm quite sure killing the dots is a matter of removing/editing an initfile Jan 03 14:21:35 yep Jan 03 14:21:39 thx DocScrutinizer for getting rid of that kid Jan 03 14:21:58 yw Jan 03 14:23:15 might have a bright future as a standup commedian or radio moderator Jan 03 14:23:20 :-D Jan 03 14:23:51 he... obviously Jan 03 14:23:56 :-) Jan 03 14:25:16 NIN101: you tested powerkernel instead of your own homegrown? Jan 03 14:25:37 crashanddie, pong? Jan 03 14:25:44 yes, compiling powerkernel atm. Jan 03 14:26:51 NIN101: iirc there've been problems with fb enabled kernels in the past - like multiple reboots until final successfull bootup Jan 03 14:27:27 still it seems most recent PK has fb enabled once again - I might be wrong Jan 03 14:27:46 maybe MohammadAG knows more Jan 03 14:34:19 MohammadAG: oops sorry, I was wrong. current PK doesn't enable fb&console. I confused it with uBoot output and backup-menu output Jan 03 14:34:29 same result with power kernel, but at least no reboot loop or something like that Jan 03 14:44:01 X-Fade: has anyone filed a bug about vcs.garage's cert expiring on dec 31st? (not jan 1)? Jan 03 14:44:18 timeless_mbp: yes. Jan 03 14:44:39 hi *. I am trying fm-boost, but I still only get a range of about 1-2m, and /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level stays at 106, no matter what. Any ideas? Jan 03 14:44:50 the power is locked since PR1.3 Jan 03 14:45:01 X-Fade: btw, expiring on dec31st is amusing :) Jan 03 14:45:22 jhb1: search for jacekowski's fmtxd, try that Jan 03 14:45:32 Venemo: thx Jan 03 14:45:40 It was locked in kernel :-) Jan 03 14:46:36 jhb1: rmmod and modprobe the kernel module and then immediately setting power should work Jan 03 14:47:03 it locks max power to what's written first there Jan 03 14:47:32 DocScrutinizer: which module? Jan 03 14:47:37 errr Jan 03 14:47:41 fmtx_si4713 ? Jan 03 14:47:47 yeah prolly Jan 03 14:49:06 DocScrutinizer: /me tries Jan 03 14:50:32 DocScrutinizer: numbers are now different, range not :-/ Jan 03 14:50:36 thanks a lot Jan 03 14:54:31 jhb1: there is another option Jan 03 14:54:43 jacekowski: I am just on your page Jan 03 14:54:44 :-) Jan 03 14:54:52 ok Jan 03 14:54:54 then you know it Jan 03 14:55:11 jacekowski: reading http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/FMTXD1.3 Jan 03 14:55:14 yeah Jan 03 14:55:16 read Jan 03 14:55:23 http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/FMTXD Jan 03 14:55:26 read that as well Jan 03 14:55:50 treat that 1.3 version as upgrade to 1.2 version Jan 03 14:56:04 procedure is same Jan 03 14:56:11 just one file instead of two Jan 03 14:56:19 hmmh, not in repo? Jan 03 14:56:33 no Jan 03 14:58:30 is there a reason? (like legal stuff or so?) Jan 03 14:58:37 legal stuff Jan 03 14:58:44 and you're not allowed to modify system files Jan 03 14:58:55 replace* Jan 03 14:59:06 good point Jan 03 14:59:08 some people don't care about it Jan 03 14:59:19 but that's in guidelines for repository Jan 03 14:59:29 besides, it's only one file Jan 03 15:02:03 * GAN900 doesn't know why he's responding to the DRM thread. Jan 03 15:02:46 Interestingly nobody has pointed out that legal music sales were mostly nonexistant until they started giving up DRM Jan 03 15:03:03 hey, i want to install MohammadAG 's media player on an n900 Jan 03 15:03:06 anyone have instructions? Jan 03 15:03:12 (and then people who bought DRMd music legitimately started getting shafted as MS "Plays for sure" servers started shutting down) Jan 03 15:03:45 HAHA Jan 03 15:04:21 GAN900: link Jan 03 15:04:33 ShadowJK: not so much Jan 03 15:04:44 ShadowJK: look at itunes Jan 03 15:05:14 ShadowJK: it was a ot more popular than anything else Jan 03 15:05:26 because it automaticaly did everything for you Jan 03 15:05:43 and there was no annoying drm problem visible to user Jan 03 15:05:44 I think teh first lesson from itunes is: not everyone can be apple Jan 03 15:05:48 timeless_mbp: pm'd you Jan 03 15:06:13 ShadowJK: that was deep Jan 03 15:06:42 jacekowski, one sec. Jan 03 15:07:36 jacekowski, starts here: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-December/002978.html Jan 03 15:07:55 No really, you have to make it *work* painlessly right from the start, and it helps to have devoted droves of users who love you and who's trust you have Jan 03 15:08:31 I guess it also helps if you know how to process payments :/ Jan 03 15:08:33 * ShadowJK looks at ovi Jan 03 15:08:56 GAN: Well, he is right. Jan 03 15:10:09 jacekowski: the combination of it seems to help. cheers! Jan 03 15:11:04 ShadowJK: well, card payment is less annoying once you remember card numbers and stuff Jan 03 15:11:13 so you don't have to take your card out of wallet Jan 03 15:16:16 Well I was referring to that ovi fail where they couldn't take payment from half of europe for several months :) Jan 03 15:16:46 (while paypal and amazon did it just fine on the same cards with the same info) Jan 03 15:18:23 RST38h, that MeeGo needs to have a security framework to compete? Jan 03 15:19:54 jhb1: is your issue solved? Jan 03 15:20:04 Venemo: still working on it Jan 03 15:33:21 Venemo, jacekowski: had it working once, but it didn't survive reboot. The thread with the instructions http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60567 is 29 pages long - is there (in the end) anything beyond copying fmtxd and restarting it? Jan 03 15:40:42 * alterego wonders if anyone has leaked the wl drivers yet. Jan 03 15:40:58 jhb1: no idea, sorry Jan 03 15:41:03 alterego: what leaked wl drivers? Jan 03 15:44:23 lol Jan 03 15:44:38 The wl drivers with injection support that that guy is selling with mandatory donations. Jan 03 15:45:47 Just wondering if anyone has leaked them yet. Jan 03 15:46:33 I did Jan 03 15:47:25 alterego: he also distributes the source Jan 03 15:47:37 Yeah, Jan 03 15:47:44 Well, it is GPL Jan 03 15:51:55 * ieatlint notes it's legal to sell gpl software Jan 03 15:57:01 Never said anything about the legality of it :P Jan 03 15:58:11 fair enough :P Jan 03 15:58:59 Besides, we've had more than enough debates over that over the past week or so ;) Jan 03 15:59:31 hehe, ok... you just seemed awfully critical for someone with their own plans to sell an app :P Jan 03 16:00:18 he's not really selling the app, is he? Jan 03 16:00:33 I mean, it's not like he's requiring people to purchase a licence to use his application Jan 03 16:00:43 he's actually requiring a donation for access to the source code Jan 03 16:00:52 which, in itself, is a violation of the GPL Jan 03 16:01:03 someone did leak it at some point Jan 03 16:01:18 does he give the binary for free? Jan 03 16:01:23 and leaking it should be ok as it is afterall gpl :) Jan 03 16:01:26 it wouldn't be a violation if however, he was asking for a "fair amount of money to cover the costs of making the source code available" Jan 03 16:01:44 i have it mirrored at home somewhere Jan 03 16:02:13 haha, wl12xx driver again? Jan 03 16:02:15 not sure one can call it possible to "leak" gpl code... think it's just called redistributing it Jan 03 16:02:40 gnu public leak! Jan 03 16:02:49 DocScrutinizer: licence fights are rather entertaining :P Jan 03 16:03:30 I can't see what left over to discuss there. Jan 03 16:04:37 it's perfectly ok to SELL routers with linux binaries, as long as customer is allowed to download the source somewhere (after compensating for processing the request) Jan 03 16:05:05 so what can be wrong with SELLING binaries, as long as you ship the source with it? Jan 03 16:05:07 yes, and? Jan 03 16:05:20 and he doesn't even do that, he just ASKS for a DONATION Jan 03 16:05:25 well, no Jan 03 16:05:28 he demands payment Jan 03 16:05:34 considering there is no alternative for download Jan 03 16:05:35 yeah Jan 03 16:05:59 donnate 1 cent for hosting costs. Absolutely legitimate Jan 03 16:06:03 also, when you buy a router, you pay for the hardware Jan 03 16:06:15 here, you're only paying for... hosting? Jan 03 16:06:25 for whatever Jan 03 16:06:35 buy RHEL Jan 03 16:06:43 does he offer the binary for free though? Jan 03 16:06:45 what you are paying for there? Jan 03 16:06:53 or is that part of this "donation"? Jan 03 16:06:58 DocScrutinizer, support Jan 03 16:07:08 :shrug: so what? Jan 03 16:07:36 and subscription to their online software center Jan 03 16:08:06 meh, read GPL Jan 03 16:08:21 I did Jan 03 16:08:30 Again, I'm not saying it's a violation of the GPL or anything Jan 03 16:08:37 anyway Jan 03 16:08:39 I'm off work Jan 03 16:08:40 later all Jan 03 16:09:43 ""you developed it for LINUX! we are entitled you give it to us for free!"" GASHEADS Jan 03 16:09:54 * ieatlint agrees Jan 03 16:10:24 the GPL is about ensuring code does not become closed, NOT that it remains free Jan 03 16:10:29 DocScrutinizer, you ought to know better with me ;) Jan 03 16:10:40 what was that now about those square card dongles? Jan 03 16:10:49 crashanddie: wasn't adressed to you Jan 03 16:10:53 k Jan 03 16:11:01 chem|st: give me an address... i'm hitting the post office in 30min :P Jan 03 16:11:22 ieatlint@tehinterweb.com Jan 03 16:13:58 Soooo Jan 03 16:14:31 What is new and exciting going on, except for a bunch of middle schoolers trolling tmo? Jan 03 16:16:29 RST38h: maybe mwkn? Jan 03 16:16:47 DocScrutinizer: you wanted one of thos dongles too? Jan 03 16:16:57 yep, much Jan 03 16:17:03 Doc: Nah Jan 03 16:17:15 DocScrutinizer: ieatlint will send me some and I fwd Jan 03 16:17:21 thanks Jan 03 16:17:23 * timeless_mbp sighs Jan 03 16:17:29 DocScrutinizer: just 1? Jan 03 16:17:34 i'm racing an hgsubversion convert w/ an ovi suite install Jan 03 16:17:36 yeah, is enough Jan 03 16:17:46 k Jan 03 16:17:53 the ovi suite install "This may take a few minutes" has been running for an hour or so Jan 03 16:18:03 the conversion estimated something like 20mins and is right on time Jan 03 16:18:17 now i need to quickly remember where the fuck i put them, heh Jan 03 16:18:25 Ah, SandyBridge is out Jan 03 16:19:27 Still called Core i3/5/7, how will people distinguish it from the last years' i3/5/7? Weird. Jan 03 16:20:56 DocScrutinizer: what does dsme do? what is the difference between dsme and mce? Jan 03 16:21:02 *burp* by looking at 65I334327a33jkhdsh Jan 03 16:21:26 dsme starts & controls processes Jan 03 16:21:33 mce manages hardware Jan 03 16:21:41 basically Jan 03 16:21:52 so the overlap on some domains Jan 03 16:21:58 they* Jan 03 16:22:28 Venemo: do a ssme-tool --help Jan 03 16:22:33 grrr Jan 03 16:22:41 dsmetool --help Jan 03 16:22:51 DocScrutinizer: is it the same as http://gitorious.org/dsme ? Jan 03 16:23:23 I'd think mostly to yes Jan 03 16:23:50 mhm Jan 03 16:24:10 thx DocScrutinizer Jan 03 16:24:17 yw Jan 03 16:24:44 obviously the thermal mgmt and wd-kicking is more of an mce domain basically Jan 03 16:25:13 while mce handling power button is arguably more like a genuine dsme domain Jan 03 16:25:49 both are evil, anyway. dsme is "open" at least Jan 03 16:26:42 tbh I'm amazed they opened up dsme while mce still closed Jan 03 16:28:18 ok, i'm off to post office and bank fun... be back with customs/tracking info for some people Jan 03 16:29:16 customs \o/ Jan 03 16:30:08 ieatlint: write "you forgot you junk!!" on the envelope :-D Jan 03 16:30:54 DocScrutinizer: I'm not sure if that is the same dsme as Maemo's Jan 03 16:31:43 I'm not sure either, but it's close from description. Maybe they left parts out that they didn't like to disclose Jan 03 16:31:52 DocScrutinizer: hm, the authors email addresses are @nokia.com, so it is likely Jan 03 16:32:36 ask stskeeps, he should know details Jan 03 16:33:02 funny enough he doesn't even join this chan anymore Jan 03 16:33:23 for the moment, it doesn't interest me too much, I was just messing around and found it interesting that they opened it Jan 03 16:33:47 yeah, I know they did, quite some time ago iirc Jan 03 16:34:04 so why not mce? Jan 03 16:34:21 (maybe they merged the dangerous code from dsme into mce? :P) Jan 03 16:51:14 can't see that. But maybe mce wasn't exactly needed by stskeeps for mer? Jan 03 16:54:38 heh Jan 03 16:54:41 maybe. Jan 03 16:56:04 RST38h, by looking at the really long model numbers, of course! Jan 03 16:56:11 Hey, new socket, too! Jan 03 16:56:37 GAN900: that's what I meant :-D Jan 03 16:57:15 GAN900: how's life? Jan 03 16:57:32 DocScrutinizer, glad the holidays are over. Jan 03 16:57:44 :-) Jan 03 16:58:16 Glad 2010's over Jan 03 16:58:22 what a shit year. Jan 03 16:58:29 yeah Jan 03 16:58:51 RST38h, what's wrong with mwkn? :P Jan 03 16:59:07 I'm afraid the shit won't care about new year though Jan 03 16:59:20 Probably not Jan 03 16:59:27 But at least it feels like a new start. Jan 03 17:08:53 Venemo: http://gitorious.org/dsme/dsme/merge_requests/5 ([2011-01-03 17:21:50] while mce handling power button is arguably more like a genuine dsme domain) :-D Jan 03 17:13:43 hi Jan 03 17:13:56 sup all Jan 03 17:15:40 lol, everybody is sleeping again Jan 03 17:16:28 how ironic.... Jan 03 17:16:32 :D Jan 03 17:18:39 MohammedAG, u there? Jan 03 17:19:12 MohammadAG * Jan 03 17:23:05 alterego: your dongle is finally en route Jan 03 17:23:20 ~10 day travel time Jan 03 17:24:13 DocScrutinizer: and chem|st will have them in approx 10 days as well Jan 03 17:25:40 cost the same to mail 2 as it did 7 to two different countries, heh Jan 03 17:27:29 ieatlint: why thank you :D Jan 03 17:27:35 ieatlint: I'd forgotted :D Jan 03 17:27:48 Heh Jan 03 17:28:11 yeah, delayed by xmas, and then by the fact that i've been sick for the last 8 days :( Jan 03 17:28:46 i mailed you 2.. Jan 03 17:29:31 Heh well, I don't really even need one ;) Jan 03 17:29:36 Except to test your s/w Jan 03 17:29:40 * ieatlint shrugs Jan 03 17:29:46 Still it will be cool to play with. Jan 03 17:30:01 sell it to some kid who wants to skim credit cards Jan 03 17:30:08 Hahah Jan 03 17:30:39 they're still free to me in reasonable quantities, so yeah Jan 03 17:30:52 and with the cost the same to mail 1 or 7 (apparently)... why not Jan 03 17:31:03 Heh, Jan 03 17:31:10 Did you have a good Chrimbo, New Year btw? Jan 03 17:32:11 yeah... xmas was great, then i got sick on boxing day, got just well enough to think it was a good idea to go to a party for new year, and i'm recovering still.. :P Jan 03 17:32:16 how was yours then? Jan 03 17:32:52 Really good yeah :) Jan 03 17:32:59 But Jan 03 17:33:07 I always enjoy socialising and seeing family. Jan 03 17:34:49 your family must be more sane than mine Jan 03 17:35:23 No, they're all quite insane, but that's why it's quite fun :D Jan 03 17:37:46 anyone knows how to disable and enable the bluetooth module Jan 03 17:37:49 from xterm? Jan 03 17:38:03 (for the N900) Jan 03 17:39:23 it's probably a dbus call Jan 03 17:39:35 unless you mean like rmmod style Jan 03 17:40:17 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Bluetooth has details on starting/stopping bluetooth Jan 03 17:40:22 via dbus Jan 03 17:41:34 ieatlint, I'm regarding that because of this: Jan 03 17:42:01 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=910702#post910702 Jan 03 17:42:46 yeah, i don't have an answer for you there Jan 03 17:43:21 hope someone else has Jan 03 17:44:18 someone in here might... as might someone on tmo Jan 03 17:44:47 running this might prove interesting though: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Identify_adapter_path Jan 03 17:45:00 that will at least tell you if maemo see your adapter at all even Jan 03 17:45:34 dmesg may or may not yield some error messages or other helpful info Jan 03 17:58:43 ieatlint, what dongle is that? Jan 03 17:59:42 dongle to read magnetic stripes Jan 03 17:59:49 * timeless_xchat rotfl Jan 03 17:59:52 * timeless_xchat cries Jan 03 18:00:13 so... omweather is um... creative Jan 03 18:00:34 jaffa, trumee, lcuk, x-fade, et al: ping Jan 03 18:00:55 ieatlint, ah i see. Google Nexus S has this NFC thing. could be intersting in the future. Jan 03 18:01:10 timeless_xchat, pong Jan 03 18:01:17 yeah, except the NFC on the nexus s supports 13.56mhz only methinks Jan 03 18:01:25 rfid credit cards operate on a different frequency Jan 03 18:01:40 125khz if memory serves right Jan 03 18:01:44 trumee, so, quiz Jan 03 18:01:49 ieatlint, right Jan 03 18:01:49 what's an "s. mi"? Jan 03 18:02:17 * trumee is not running omweather. Jan 03 18:02:20 the idea is definitely intriguing though... Jan 03 18:02:44 timeless_xchat, no idea! Jan 03 18:04:06 * trumee is wondering whether Nokia plans to build Ovi/PC suite for linux in the future, considering meego is all linux. Jan 03 18:04:46 trumee: and ovi suite is all Qt, doesn't mean they will :/ Jan 03 18:06:07 alterego, ah!, didnt realise Ovi was Qt. I miss direct device to computer sync not through that ugly funambol. Jan 03 18:07:42 Opensync is an epic fail and is almost a dead project. Jan 03 18:07:52 trumee: Ovi suite, PC suite, it's been writting in Qt for as long as I can remember. Jan 03 18:08:01 Even before the aquisition of troll tech. Jan 03 18:08:20 so there is no syncing solution at present. Jan 03 18:09:17 * trumee wonders why enterprise linux companies dont throw money at opensync Jan 03 18:10:32 Hi Jan 03 18:11:19 ieatlint, it says: Jan 03 18:11:55 Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.bluez was not provided by any .service files Jan 03 18:12:36 Is there a way to get pictbridge gadget? Jan 03 18:12:43 Is there a pictbridge gadget even Jan 03 18:12:54 What's one of those? :D Jan 03 18:13:15 pictbridge is a way to move pictures over USB. Jan 03 18:13:37 It was implemented in many cameras as an alternative to mass storage. Jan 03 18:13:40 And some printers. Jan 03 18:14:19 I have a printer that does it, my n900 won't work in mass storage mode for some reason I don't understand, and I can't work out what disk type/... it wants as mass storage on a printer. Jan 03 18:14:28 as mass storage on a plugged in drive Jan 03 18:14:35 partition type/format Jan 03 18:14:43 And I'm trying to print pictures. Jan 03 18:14:46 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jan 03 18:17:29 SpeedEvil, yeah my HP printer has pictbridge too, but never used it. Jan 03 18:20:29 * alterego contemplates getting osmocombb stack runnin on N900 Jan 03 18:20:48 I'd need RS232 Jan 03 18:20:53 Hrm. Jan 03 18:21:07 I could use my RS232 bluetooth dongle. Jan 03 18:21:33 isnt one of the ports behind the battery a serial port? Jan 03 18:21:48 alterego: impossible - oh do you mean to control a reciever phone? Jan 03 18:21:50 It is, Jan 03 18:21:55 SpeedEvil: yes Jan 03 18:22:01 otherwise there are good working usb to rs232 converted .. might work with hostmode Jan 03 18:22:09 ah - yeah - that'd work Jan 03 18:22:11 SpeedEvil: I just mean running the user space on the N900 ;) Jan 03 18:22:36 Need mass storage too for the rainbow tables. Jan 03 18:22:57 What the 10TiB or whatever it is? :D Jan 03 18:23:11 * trumee wonders what is special about MohammadAG media player. Jan 03 18:23:21 trumee: it's FOSS Jan 03 18:23:37 trumee: supports portrait mode, has prettier looking album art. Jan 03 18:23:41 And we can hack on it. Jan 03 18:24:05 alterego, ah nice. But Mediabox does most of that? Jan 03 18:24:27 alterego, although python drags it down a bit. Jan 03 18:24:31 Dunno, don't use it. Mohammediaplayer is a drop in replacement for the inbuilt media player. Jan 03 18:25:45 alterego, is it written in C++? Jan 03 18:26:31 Yes Jan 03 18:27:34 alterego, should be good for the future. its not released yet? Jan 03 18:27:49 It's WIP Jan 03 18:27:57 But you can download, compile and install it. Jan 03 18:28:15 right. Jan 03 18:28:17 R1 is supposed to be mid to late this month. Jan 03 18:28:25 nice Jan 03 18:28:30 So, still a bit needs to be done. Jan 03 18:28:35 But it's coming along extremely well. Jan 03 18:29:28 alterego, is it Qt based? Jan 03 18:29:54 Yes of course Jan 03 18:30:05 good. Jan 03 18:30:39 SpeedEvil: this what you mean? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_Transfer_Protocol Jan 03 18:31:09 Is that for printing? Jan 03 18:31:09 * trumee tried BlessN900 for the first time and found stock camera photos produces more realistic photos compared to BlessN900. Jan 03 18:31:13 there's software for linux to implement as a client (libptp, which is used by several apps)... not seen it as a server Jan 03 18:32:00 alterego: not explicitly Jan 03 18:32:34 Sure, but is that what printers use? :) Jan 03 18:32:43 * trumee guess need to do more comparisons before concluding anything. Jan 03 18:32:56 i would guess yes Jan 03 18:33:00 what does "low light" mean? Jan 03 18:33:03 i know most cameras support ptp Jan 03 18:33:26 and it's what photo apps on windows/osx/linux typically use to talk to cameras (in lieu of usb mass storage mode) Jan 03 18:36:55 <__20h__> Good evening. I installed via fapman a different clock for the status panel. After removing it, did the battery status display disappear. Anyone knows a hint, how to configure this status panel and its applets and what needs to be entered there for the standard battery status? Jan 03 18:43:32 <__20h__> It was the »advanced-clock-plugin«. Jan 03 18:43:38 <__20h__> But those seem to be unrelated. Jan 03 18:45:23 have you rebooted? Jan 03 18:45:49 <__20h__> I haven't; I will try. Jan 03 18:47:42 timeless_xchat: pong Jan 03 18:48:25 jaffa, so, quiz Jan 03 18:48:30 what's an "s. mi"? Jan 03 18:49:07 "standard mile"? (as opposed to nautical...) Jan 03 18:49:37 jaffa, ever used OMWeather? :) Jan 03 18:49:51 timeless_xchat: Not since diablo Jan 03 18:50:18 maemo.org BETA?? LOL Jan 03 18:50:38 can i get you to install it for a bit? (you can uninstall when we're done) Jan 03 18:50:41 guyz when i open the camera slider , i want the LEDs to light up and not to open the camera app , how do i do it ? Jan 03 18:50:44 docscrutinizer, of course Jan 03 18:50:51 DocScrutinizer: wut? Jan 03 18:50:58 everything is better in beta, ask google! Jan 03 18:51:14 DocScrutinizer: Was supposed to be removed ages ago - I still see it and CBA to moan at the appropriate people Jan 03 18:51:26 CBA? Jan 03 18:51:37 can't be arsed? Jan 03 18:52:04 timeless_xchat: Indeed Jan 03 18:53:06 jaffa, so, omweather? :) Jan 03 18:53:18 guyz when i open the camera slider , i want the LEDs to light up and not to open the camera app , how do i do it ? Jan 03 18:53:56 there isn't an app for that Jan 03 18:54:08 there is a app that gives you the chouce what you want to happen Jan 03 18:54:23 two buttons - open camera, turn on flashlight Jan 03 18:54:27 I forget what it's alled Jan 03 18:54:29 clale Jan 03 18:54:32 clealr Jan 03 18:54:37 named Jan 03 18:55:07 I want an app that starts the cam, unless I open the shutter witht eh camera pointed down Jan 03 18:55:41 i want a pony! Jan 03 18:55:52 <__20h__> Found it. Somehow the status-area-applet-battery.desktop was moved from /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu to ./disabled Jan 03 18:56:21 Jaffa: I guess there's not much point in removing the beta caption now. Jan 03 18:59:24 question is, when'll they shut down maemo.org and tell everyone to f*ck off to meego.com Jan 03 19:05:47 <__20h__> It was the advanced-power-manager, which took it away. Jan 03 19:09:10 Venemo: They will not Jan 03 19:09:18 jaffa, try settings in omweather. .. Jan 03 19:09:24 i'm about out of power Jan 03 19:09:35 RST38h: so maemo.org will remain forever the last stand of a dead platform? Jan 03 19:09:41 Venemo: "They"'ll never do that, cos the community (i.e. the council) own maemo.org Jan 03 19:09:48 Venemo: Will not tell you to go to Meego.com instead, that is. Meego.com is more for core developers and contributors, not for you Jan 03 19:09:59 Jaffa: Who pays for the servers though? Jan 03 19:10:17 RST38h: yeah, right now it is :) but as soon as it'll begin to be productized, who knows Jan 03 19:10:22 Venemo: Maemo 5 is the best next-gen mobile OS exists for my use-cases right now. Especially with teh CSSU Jan 03 19:10:30 Jaffa: agreed :) Jan 03 19:10:51 RST38h: The better question is "are servers so expensive that *if* Nokia pulled the plug before it was time, would the costs at that point be unrealistic?" Jan 03 19:11:13 RST38h: Paid for, perhaps, by amazon.* referrals for N9 purchases ;-) Jan 03 19:11:14 Jaffa: the important part is the "right now". the question is, what'll happen when MeeGo becomes actually usable? Jan 03 19:11:43 Venemo: At the moment, we have a commitment from Nokia to pay for maemo.org for the forseeable future. Jan 03 19:12:05 Jaffa: good to hear :) Jan 03 19:12:08 Jaffa: Don't try to avoid the question Jan 03 19:12:12 Venemo: With a promise to give as much warning as possible for any change in that situation (which'd be about 6 months, as that's the budgetary process) Jan 03 19:12:23 Jaffa: Consider what happens when nokia pulls the budget instead Jan 03 19:12:36 Venemo: I do not see it happening, sorry Jan 03 19:12:39 RST38h: When MeeGo becomes usable, lots of the community will move to MeeGo, as they also move to Android, iOS or maybe even WebOS Jan 03 19:12:49 RST38h: Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Jan 03 19:12:52 RST38h: hehe :D Jan 03 19:12:57 RST38h: Nokia budgets are revised every 6 months. Jan 03 19:13:10 okay, so no need to worry for now Jan 03 19:13:14 Venemo: Correct. Jan 03 19:13:59 Jaffa: Ok. Come next July and you suddenly find out that there is no more money for maemo.org. Web servers shut down. Autobuilder shut down, Repositories shut down. X-Fade goes on vacation, just like he did last year, but permanently this time. Jan 03 19:14:14 Jaffa: Your actions? Jan 03 19:15:42 hello, i have a problem with the facebook chat Jan 03 19:15:53 it seems to disconnect quite frequently Jan 03 19:15:59 like every 5 seconds Jan 03 19:16:35 it connects, and shows contacts as being online, but then it disconnects quite quickly Jan 03 19:16:36 RST38h: As I said, we'd have more notice than that. Jan 03 19:17:28 Jaffa: Hopefuly we would. But somehow, I doubt it. See what happened to Symbian Foundation servers for example. Jan 03 19:17:56 the symbian downage sucked Jan 03 19:17:58 RST38h: Primarily, it'd be up to the Council - but if it were me, 1) mirror the content; 2) auto-builder should've been replaced by OBS by then; 3) temporarily host everything I can on my own colo box; 4) look for sponsors whilst putting ads on the site; provide a mechanism for community members to donate. Jan 03 19:18:01 * timeless_xchat grumbles Jan 03 19:18:26 RST38h: But if a server is turned off and no-one notices; does it matter? Jan 03 19:18:28 Jaffa: Sounds like a plan. Jan 03 19:18:43 Jaffa: Well I do think some people will still be at maemo.org Jan 03 19:18:49 timeless_xchat, so the mediaplayer segfaulted for you? Jan 03 19:18:50 It has been a great community. Jan 03 19:18:52 RST38h: I can't predict the state of the community in 6-18 months time. If I could, Nokia would employ me in their strategic planning dept ;-) Jan 03 19:19:13 yes Jan 03 19:19:18 and i'm about to run out of power Jan 03 19:19:28 RST38h: Indeed; I'm sure there'll be continued life in 770, N8x0 and - primarily - N900 owners. That's why getting the CSSU rolling now, before the N9 launches, is so key. Jan 03 19:19:41 Jaffa: I can. In spite of not being employed at Nokia's strategic planning :) Jan 03 19:20:50 "Youll notice that the boogey man is no longer a very common fear in children. Do you know why? We contained it. We have it locked in a cell somewhere, and study it." Jan 03 19:51:17 ~ping Jan 03 19:51:18 ~pong Jan 03 19:59:31 ~botsnack Jan 03 19:59:31 :), Venemo Jan 03 20:31:14 waitwaitwait, who was that flaming me for mentioning I should wget the maemo wiki some day? Jan 03 20:32:20 I wonder how my attitude or the way I put it back when is so much different to what I read from RST38h and Jaffa some 30+ lines backscroll Jan 03 20:33:24 DocScrutinizer: Cos a wiki dump is a bit easier; and would be perfectly achievable before anything got turned off or lost. Jan 03 20:34:37 so how am I entitled to get flames for mentioning this? Jan 03 20:47:14 Jaffa: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-12-28.log.html#t2010-12-28T01:42:23 Jan 03 20:48:27 Jaffa: all I said was >>nxt time friggin wiki is up I'll have to wget it. Completely<< Jan 03 20:49:05 well, obviously there are guys that love to hate me. I don't really care, just amused Jan 03 20:56:30 DocScrutinizer: did you do that btw? ;) Jan 03 21:00:08 not yet, it's not THAT simple a task (not to download all the special pages), and I hope wiki will be more responsive not between the years Jan 03 21:05:40 honestly somebody should have done this long ago, and meanwhile ought have published 17th monthly update of the pkg on maemo-extras Jan 03 21:06:35 considering it's basically the best and only documentation about maemo available Jan 03 21:07:20 DocScrutinizer: Well, the InfoCenter's OK. Jan 03 21:07:38 InfoCenter? o.O Jan 03 21:09:41 you're not talking about that well hidden pdf on MyDocs, are you? Jan 03 21:10:18 Err, no, Jan 03 21:10:23 * DocScrutinizer ponders to google maemo infocenter Jan 03 21:11:47 errr library.maemodocs.nokia.com Jan 03 21:11:49 ? Jan 03 21:13:01 hmm, yeah. Not bad either. Also online Jan 03 21:13:46 some individuals prefer to get one big chunk and then browse the whole stuff offline, on takatukaland Jan 03 21:17:16 it's not that long ago when always-online was a ludicrous idea. For some poor souls it's still today, when it comes to mobile devices and GPRS Jan 03 21:18:58 and honestly how much can an image of wiki.maemo.org be? 500MB, 100MB, 50? Jan 03 21:20:54 hell maybe even gzip it :-P It's *text* Jan 03 21:26:52 always online is still expensive in terms of energy consumption and battery life Jan 03 21:27:29 try going on a 5 hour trip with irc open in n900 Jan 03 21:27:48 you mean a 10-minute jog Jan 03 21:27:53 it's magical that it works at all Jan 03 21:28:02 pupnik, I do it all day. Jan 03 21:28:09 On EDGE though Jan 03 21:30:44 try doing a 3.5day trip with a N900 :( Jan 03 21:31:13 desu Jan 03 21:32:12 5 hours should be doable with a little cleverness Jan 03 21:32:15 ok, so I request a ftp or rsync access to download raw wiki.maemo.org in bulk Jan 03 21:33:00 even 24h is somewhat feasible sometimes Jan 03 21:33:11 Neat, there's a CUDA WPA2 cracker Jan 03 21:33:28 but not when you're frequently browsing the wiki ;-D Jan 03 21:33:30 it is the 3.5 day one that takes some planning :( Jan 03 21:33:59 ds3: this clearly needs a spare battery :-) Jan 03 21:34:15 DocScrutinizer: A? like 3 or so Jan 03 21:34:21 depends Jan 03 21:34:32 even the N800 didn't cut it on a 3 day trip Jan 03 21:34:56 N900 is better I heard Jan 03 21:35:11 if you're not going GPRS or excessive WLAN Jan 03 21:35:11 really? even if I go in and out of coverage? Jan 03 21:35:26 nope then of course not Jan 03 21:35:55 I really really really wish they did not do away with the dedicated charging port Jan 03 21:36:19 the USB batteries would have made nice secondary power sources Jan 03 21:36:21 I've had my N900 on WLAN at my parents for 3 days before it ran out Jan 03 21:36:27 I was well impressed, I even used it a bit ^.^ Jan 03 21:37:02 DocScrutinizer: why do you need browsing the Maemo wiki that much? Jan 03 21:37:13 alterego: was 3G/2G completely disabled? Jan 03 21:37:33 I only get 2G at my parents. Jan 03 21:37:43 It wasn't disabled, no. Jan 03 21:37:44 Venemo: developing fancy shit for N900, while sitting in airplane? Jan 03 21:37:57 Heh Jan 03 21:38:16 DocScrutinizer: :) Jan 03 21:38:59 Venemo: the question is more like "why are so many users unaware of the wiki?" Jan 03 21:39:41 it should ship with N900 ootb Jan 03 21:40:09 DocScrutinizer: right :) Jan 03 21:40:20 as a supplement to this nice 35pp pdf called manual Jan 03 21:42:01 DocScrutinizer: I've recently found an interesting doc on the wiki that talked about what I was interested in. unfortunately it wasn't up-do-date and didn't have deep enough info :( Jan 03 21:42:39 that's the inherent problem of every wiki I've seen so far Jan 03 21:43:01 still usually you get a better idea than without it Jan 03 21:43:20 a short glance at page history also helps a lot Jan 03 21:45:37 * javispedro curses Jan 03 21:45:47 wazzup? Jan 03 21:45:51 DocScrutinizer: I would need an internal readme or diagram about the hildon-desktop code structure and inner workings (something like what timeless gave us about libmatchbox2) Jan 03 21:46:17 What's funny is that the best wikis I've ever seen on the internet are for video games. Jan 03 21:46:22 DocScrutinizer: this page _almost_ explains it nicely: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/UI_Framework Jan 03 21:46:22 something along the bluez rfcomm stack is converting my \r\n's into \r\r\n Jan 03 21:46:30 (See any Elder Scrolls game) Jan 03 21:46:37 :nod: that's smething usually neglected by developers though Jan 03 21:47:31 javispedro: lol Jan 03 21:47:35 what could possibly be line-ending aware in rfcomm? Jan 03 21:47:38 tty subsystem? Jan 03 21:47:39 DocScrutinizer: there must exist some kind of thing that talks about it. no single person can hold the inner workings of 25-30 1000+ line long C files Jan 03 21:47:42 l2cap? I have nfi. Jan 03 21:47:52 javispedro: tty line discipline Jan 03 21:48:03 see, that's why I came to this channel =) Jan 03 21:48:12 now, where's that google when you need it :) Jan 03 21:49:31 Venemo: I suspect conspiracy meetings in Nokia's 7th cellar Jan 03 21:51:16 javispedro: http://en.tldp.org/HOWTO/Serial-HOWTO.html Jan 03 21:51:47 DocScrutinizer: :D Jan 03 21:51:51 DocScrutinizer: many thanks :) Jan 03 21:52:24 DocScrutinizer: here is a picture of said meeting: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertogg/3707868233/ Jan 03 21:57:19 DocScrutinizer: unfortunately the pic is to blurry to see the diagram on it. :( Jan 03 21:57:43 DocScrutinizer: the only parts visible from it are the things I already know. Jan 03 21:58:50 yeah - "Fremantle" Jan 03 22:03:18 bah Jan 03 22:03:23 I accidentally plugged out the N900 Jan 03 22:05:20 grrrr partial eclipse and 100% probability for 100% fog :-( Jan 03 22:05:39 yeah :( Jan 03 22:05:45 cloudy here Jan 03 22:07:50 javispedro: who's admin of wiki.maemo.org? Jan 03 22:08:10 DocScrutinizer: partial eclipse where? Jan 03 22:08:15 Europe Jan 03 22:08:24 DocScrutinizer, I am. Jan 03 22:08:31 ooh Jan 03 22:09:19 GAN900: so couldn't you open a FTP access to the http/ directory? (maybe it's marginally more complex than that) Jan 03 22:09:37 DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Special%3AListusers&group=wikiadmin Jan 03 22:09:37 DocScrutinizer, ah, software admin, not box admin. Jan 03 22:09:47 dneary should have the access for that. Jan 03 22:10:21 any way to dl raw wiki data would be great Jan 03 22:10:50 spidering it with wget is a major PITA, regarding all the special pages and whatnot Jan 03 22:11:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Export Jan 03 22:11:16 o.O Jan 03 22:11:54 WTF! duh Jan 03 22:12:50 errr, doesn't support wildcards? ;-D Jan 03 22:13:43 * DocScrutinizer scratches head Jan 03 22:13:48 * javispedro too Jan 03 22:14:10 found http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Export Jan 03 22:15:52 < dneary. Jan 03 22:19:17 ~ping Jan 03 22:19:17 ~pong Jan 03 22:20:01 bb guys Jan 03 22:20:07 * Venemo is going sleeping Jan 03 22:21:20 * DocScrutinizer frowns and mumbles "yeah, dneary" Jan 03 22:24:39 aaaa Jan 03 22:30:05 ok, now I know what "-r" option in rfcomm is for. Jan 03 22:30:13 thanks, DocScrutinizer (re tty line discipline) Jan 03 22:31:07 yw, pleased to help Jan 03 22:34:35 timeless_xchat, got an N900? Jan 03 22:34:40 (atm) Jan 03 22:37:40 yes Jan 03 22:37:45 xchat = n900 Jan 03 22:38:01 only one atm Jan 03 22:39:05 * timeless_xchat is trying to convince mse2 to install on a wVista system Jan 03 22:39:27 timeless_xchat, latest "nightly" should be working Jan 03 22:41:25 sigh Jan 03 22:41:53 maybe best to ping me in an hour Jan 03 22:45:52 evening chaps Jan 03 22:46:16 so qtm 1.1, do we have any thoughts for how long it might be before it ends up in Extras? Jan 03 22:46:53 qtm? Jan 03 22:46:59 qt mobility Jan 03 22:47:41 if i cared, i'd poke an sdk or qt person Jan 03 22:47:51 * timeless_xchat doesn't Jan 03 22:48:07 mohammad: hit me w/ a link Jan 03 22:48:34 timeless_xchat: I think it's more of a community ssu question Jan 03 22:48:47 is ssu the right work, no idea Jan 03 22:48:48 that isn't extras. no? Jan 03 22:48:56 s/work/word/ Jan 03 22:49:03 * SpeedEvil imagines lardman saying that in a Father Jack voice. Jan 03 22:49:37 well I've got vino on the go, I guess he's more of a spirits sort of chap ;) Jan 03 22:49:45 hrm, windows update installed mse1 Jan 03 22:49:51 should i give up? Jan 03 22:50:14 give up already Jan 03 22:50:19 tought Jan 03 22:50:28 tbh yesterday I set up wvista on a machine and wupdate offered me mse2 Jan 03 22:51:13 really? Jan 03 22:51:19 did you take it? Jan 03 22:51:41 yeo Jan 03 22:51:42 yep Jan 03 22:51:46 Ah - the joy of seeing your bugs be wontfixed. Meh. Jan 03 22:51:58 what now? Jan 03 22:52:01 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 Jan 03 22:52:03 Bug 6584: GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading (0 decimal places) Jan 03 22:52:14 haha Jan 03 22:52:15 speedevil, just wait for when your bug's deleted Jan 03 22:52:17 Admittedly, it's not a hugely serious bug - but it annoys me. Jan 03 22:52:19 yeah, I just got a notification for that one too Jan 03 22:52:27 what a stupid bug Jan 03 22:52:37 QA? Jan 03 22:52:46 that can be fixed probably Jan 03 22:53:14 I still prefer a WONTFIX to silence. ;-/ Jan 03 22:53:37 andre__: true, thanks for kicking people :) Jan 03 22:54:05 hrm Jan 03 22:54:11 andre: indeed Jan 03 22:54:12 well... could be better. :-/ Jan 03 22:54:18 what's the current latest sp for vista? Jan 03 22:54:35 2 Jan 03 22:54:39 timeless_xchat^^ Jan 03 22:54:47 * lardman skipped Vista thankfully Jan 03 22:54:49 andre: I would have preferred the WONTFIXes a couple of months after the report, but yes. Jan 03 22:55:06 javispedro, thanks Jan 03 22:55:17 ok, so. i don't get it Jan 03 22:55:20 SpeedEvil: me too... I do hope this will change for MeeGo. Jan 03 22:55:24 i have wVsp2 Jan 03 22:55:24 yup. Jan 03 22:55:31 With meego it will be all better! Jan 03 22:55:35 why didn't i get mse2 from wu? Jan 03 22:55:48 * timeless_xchat rotfl @ speedevil Jan 03 22:55:49 SpeedEvil: not all. but some stuff ;-) Jan 03 22:55:52 very funny Jan 03 22:55:52 There will also be a NINJAS bug resolution. Jan 03 22:55:55 timeless_xchat: you have to check the "I want new Microsoft software" in wupdate Jan 03 22:56:10 whatever that checkbox is called Jan 03 22:56:12 SpeedEvil, usecase? Jan 03 22:56:28 No Income No Job No Assets? Jan 03 22:56:31 andre: Ninjas were dispatched to the reporter, to fix the bug. Jan 03 22:56:49 javispedro, i had "recommended updates", "microsoft update", and "software notifications" checked Jan 03 22:56:58 well that's why the replies take so long, the ninjas killed the maintainers Jan 03 22:56:59 SpeedEvil, that's not a resolution but still a waiting for fix (assigned) state Jan 03 22:57:08 the only item unchecked was "who can install" Jan 03 22:57:55 dunno, maybe it's a region issue Jan 03 22:58:09 I wonder where RESOLVED NINJAS it would fit in Nokia's 30 pages "Bug life cycle" guidelines that prove perfectly that common sense cannot be expected in this world Jan 03 22:58:12 i sure hope not... but maybe Jan 03 22:58:31 andre: *sigh* Jan 03 22:58:35 timeless_xchat: can't you install it without wu? Jan 03 22:58:58 javispedro : the last time i tried that, i ended up w/o any av for a week Jan 03 22:59:15 andre: I assume above document isn't public? Jan 03 22:59:16 * timeless_xchat is now a bit reluctant Jan 03 22:59:19 ah, the joy :) Jan 03 22:59:41 speedevil : it's probably a .ppt Jan 03 23:00:17 SpeedEvil: of course not, it's unbelievably confidential!!! Jan 03 23:00:19 andre: hey, 30 pages ain't bad Jan 03 23:00:29 yes, other specs have 200... Jan 03 23:00:33 the browser ui spec used to be >300 pages Jan 03 23:01:01 timeless_xchat: 300 pages for *that*? Jan 03 23:01:08 er, i mean Jan 03 23:01:14 good job! Jan 03 23:01:22 kerio: for diablo or maybe chinook or the one before Jan 03 23:01:48 the biggest accomplishment of our ui designer was getting it down to around 100 pages Jan 03 23:01:49 ah the wonders of the ui spes that said scrolling up/down a menu with the arrow keys could not jump to the top when you tried to scroll off the bottom and vice versa Jan 03 23:02:21 you need billions of pages to define every fscking single feature behavior foolproofly, and fail trying of course Jan 03 23:02:24 lardman: arrow key behavior in maemo generally sucked Jan 03 23:02:33 +1 Jan 03 23:02:34 andre: absolutely! Jan 03 23:02:58 lardman : but the specification clearly said not to do anything else Jan 03 23:03:09 any divergence from it is a bug Jan 03 23:03:18 * alterego contemplates installing windows 7 on his laptop Jan 03 23:03:22 I know, and I was told the spec could not be changed as it had been designed by an expert Jan 03 23:03:39 and I was but a mere user :) Jan 03 23:04:19 an "expert"? Jan 03 23:04:37 well someone who was paid at least ;) Jan 03 23:06:25 but this was a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, in the time of the 770. I'm sure things are different now Jan 03 23:06:28 lardman: last time a customer told me they wouldn't change specific requirements provided by their experts, simply pointing out that I charged as much per day as that person per month usually gave me an (erroneous) advantage Jan 03 23:06:49 Ah, but my advice was foc Jan 03 23:07:00 lardman, yes, now you're just a chump. :P Jan 03 23:07:09 indeed :) Jan 03 23:07:16 without a job? Jan 03 23:07:23 ? Jan 03 23:07:47 I don't get paid to tell Nokia what I think they should change about the 770 UI design, no Jan 03 23:08:03 SpeedEvil: it's camera-ui doing that tagging? Jan 03 23:08:12 timeless_xchat, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer Jan 03 23:08:18 "A would-be suicide jumper in New York was alive on Monday after leaping from a ninth-floor window but landing in a giant heap of garbage uncollected since the city's massive snowstorm a week ago." Jan 03 23:08:22 don't expect lots of functionality Jan 03 23:08:25 lardman, but it's OK, you're in good company. Jan 03 23:08:36 GAN900: I know :) Jan 03 23:08:53 crashanddie_: a fate worse than death perhaps? ;) Jan 03 23:08:56 MohammadAG: is source available? Jan 03 23:09:32 jacekowski: yes or something spawned by it to save the jpeg anyway Jan 03 23:09:50 s/anyway/perhaps not having looked Jan 03 23:09:56 jacekowski, gitorious Jan 03 23:10:12 jacekowski, it still lacks mafw source, so again, don't expect a lot Jan 03 23:10:20 but the UI is almost complete Jan 03 23:10:30 and the FMTX dialog is 100% cloned Jan 03 23:10:54 ooh, it starts! Jan 03 23:11:33 mohammadag: can you make the about text static? Jan 03 23:11:41 slow startup is not due to Qt being slow, but the fact that it populates the list without tracker for now Jan 03 23:11:45 right now, i can select it, which is silly Jan 03 23:11:54 timeless_xchat, that's not final Jan 03 23:11:56 at all Jan 03 23:12:07 mohammadag: sure Jan 03 23:12:08 It's just something to suppress a bug in Qt Jan 03 23:12:16 i'm just noting things Jan 03 23:12:34 (there has to be a menubar on each window, otherwise the mainwindow will show the stacked window's menubar) Jan 03 23:12:37 so I added an About button Jan 03 23:12:38 the main view says "0 songs", that's a placeholder? Jan 03 23:12:47 yes Jan 03 23:12:58 which reminds me Jan 03 23:13:08 I need to add a quick way to update that Jan 03 23:13:14 does it play music? Jan 03 23:13:34 more of an oversized widget now Jan 03 23:13:42 i.e it can control the current mafw playlist Jan 03 23:13:42 the volume button has a square pressed state Jan 03 23:13:45 and renderer Jan 03 23:13:49 which feels broken Jan 03 23:13:50 the ones started by the stock mediaplayer Jan 03 23:14:03 hmm? Jan 03 23:14:12 it is a square button Jan 03 23:14:14 open a music file Jan 03 23:14:35 shuffle and repeat have round pressed states Jan 03 23:14:38 timeless_xchat, what did you mean by the square state? Jan 03 23:14:45 ah Jan 03 23:14:49 it's a toolButton Jan 03 23:15:00 can easily switch it to a QPushButton Jan 03 23:15:11 should I? Jan 03 23:15:18 interesting Jan 03 23:15:36 the real media player doesn't do pressed this way at all Jan 03 23:15:41 it does a glow state Jan 03 23:15:53 roughly painting the icon with a color Jan 03 23:15:56 s/real and impossible to patch Jan 03 23:16:05 s/real/ impossible to patch Jan 03 23:16:07 instead of changing the button face Jan 03 23:16:08 yes Jan 03 23:16:14 yep Jan 03 23:16:14 hold on Jan 03 23:16:16 it uses an icon Jan 03 23:16:47 timeless_xchat, it uses ShufflePressed.png Jan 03 23:16:51 (the stock player) Jan 03 23:16:53 ok, so image viewer uses pressed state Jan 03 23:17:00 just like your volume button Jan 03 23:17:19 and microB :P Jan 03 23:17:34 um, no? Jan 03 23:17:47 ok, baseline: Jan 03 23:18:02 yeah, microB uses tool buttons too Jan 03 23:18:05 n900, pr1.3, enus.2, digital nature Jan 03 23:18:24 ah, I'm using Nokia Nseries Jan 03 23:18:38 timeless_xchat, the mainwindow was themed orange right? Jan 03 23:18:44 yeah Jan 03 23:18:59 please switch to digital nature for a bit? Jan 03 23:19:16 k Jan 03 23:19:32 so... Jan 03 23:19:45 switching Jan 03 23:19:48 using square pressed buttons (image viewer, microb) Jan 03 23:20:00 my device isn't the fastest N900 I've seen :P Jan 03 23:20:12 (your media player: prev, play, next, volume ) Jan 03 23:20:12 done Jan 03 23:20:25 hmm Jan 03 23:20:34 k, /me notes bug Jan 03 23:20:34 uses rounded buttons: your media player (shuffle, repeat) Jan 03 23:20:40 look at the album art Jan 03 23:20:45 at the reflection Jan 03 23:20:48 it's black Jan 03 23:20:52 uses glowing glyphs: nokia media player Jan 03 23:20:53 I should be using the theme's colour Jan 03 23:21:10 I know I know :) Jan 03 23:21:10 um, i hate nseries Jan 03 23:21:20 the nokia mediaplayer uses two icons Jan 03 23:21:25 one for released, and one for pressed Jan 03 23:21:28 I've yet to add that Jan 03 23:21:29 you have to pay me to switch even ... by the minute! Jan 03 23:21:37 lol Jan 03 23:22:16 hmm Jan 03 23:22:31 oh, i have reasonable rates. 0.02$/minute Jan 03 23:22:31 timeless_xchat: wip Jan 03 23:22:46 rounded to the nearest dime :) Jan 03 23:23:36 * SpeedEvil pays for timeless_xchat to switch, for 3 minutes at a time every 181 seconds. Jan 03 23:24:11 speedevil : you'd lose big Jan 03 23:24:27 the nearest dime for 3 minutes is 1 dime Jan 03 23:24:48 and while switched he must continually listen to Justin Bieber on the new media player Jan 03 23:24:50 nearest is 0 Jan 03 23:25:01 I thought a dime was 25 cents Jan 03 23:25:05 oh well. Jan 03 23:25:11 that's a quarter! Jan 03 23:25:27 * timeless_xchat sends speedevil to kindergarten Jan 03 23:25:28 meh Jan 03 23:25:38 silly currency anyway Jan 03 23:25:41 ;) Jan 03 23:25:57 err, even the euro has dimes Jan 03 23:26:01 Hey, at least it isn't all stupid colors. Jan 03 23:26:05 also a silly currency :D Jan 03 23:26:11 monopoly money! Jan 03 23:26:37 GAN900: you've got nothing there, all the same size and colo(u)r, must loose so much money out in clubs Jan 03 23:26:39 I have too much monopoly money Jan 03 23:26:43 lardman, you guys must be happy you didn't switch. Jan 03 23:26:50 GAN900: absolutely Jan 03 23:26:59 lardman, nah, natives can tell the difference no problem. Jan 03 23:27:02 lardman, don't make me add a if{songMetadata.contains("Justin Bieber")); exit(wtf.toInt); Jan 03 23:27:03 mohammadag: ok, it seems like my initial problem was just that your player is slower to start playing music than nokia's Jan 03 23:27:25 MohammadAG: I think that's a good idea, in fact an entire blacklist.txt to parse might be a good one Jan 03 23:27:31 timeless_xchat, I could get rid of the function that scans the eMMC for songs, for benchmarking purposes Jan 03 23:27:41 GAN900: hmm :) Jan 03 23:27:56 timeless_xchat, again, it does a find -name *.mp3 in MyDocs Jan 03 23:27:58 mohammadag: do i want to know why that's relevant? Jan 03 23:28:02 it doesn't query tracker (yet) Jan 03 23:28:16 does it do this on the ui thread? Jan 03 23:28:26 yes, cause find takes more time than a "cat" Jan 03 23:28:28 yes Jan 03 23:28:37 eep? Jan 03 23:28:46 this is just a placeholder till crashanddie integrates mafw Jan 03 23:28:50 ok Jan 03 23:28:56 when that's done, we'll move it to a separate QThread Jan 03 23:29:11 when does it get album art? Jan 03 23:29:18 or is that mafw? Jan 03 23:29:29 I already added that in Jan 03 23:29:39 play a song with album art in the stock mediaplayer Jan 03 23:29:44 it's already connected to mafw renderer Jan 03 23:29:50 hmm, does mafw supply the album art? Jan 03 23:29:56 ah ok Jan 03 23:30:24 ... i'd like to see the art for the song i've tapped Jan 03 23:30:33 even if i haven't asked it to play Jan 03 23:30:35 that's mafw ;) Jan 03 23:30:38 lardman, continentals always complain about it here. I just don't get it. Jan 03 23:30:40 same as w/ real media Jan 03 23:30:46 lardman, surprisingly, it copies the album art to /tmp Jan 03 23:30:52 yes yes, that's mafw timeless_xchat Jan 03 23:30:54 GAN900: accept that it would be easier at least Jan 03 23:30:57 you pick up a cd/jewel case Jan 03 23:31:12 look at cover, and then play Jan 03 23:31:16 MohammadAG: I guess that's because it might be on network storage Jan 03 23:31:25 mohammadag: how is this mafw? Jan 03 23:31:49 timeless_xchat: mafw should supply it I think is the point, once it's all hooked up Jan 03 23:31:57 timeless_xchat, mafw supplies song lists, you populate the list with those, when you select a song, I can request the image Jan 03 23:32:11 mafw is two (or three?) parts, mafw renderer, mafw source, and mafw playlist Jan 03 23:32:25 only mafw renderer is implemented atm Jan 03 23:32:38 nicolai added basic support for mafw source, but that's not upstream - yet Jan 03 23:32:52 lardman, nope, MyDocs Jan 03 23:33:38 so... Jan 03 23:33:38 MohammadAG: yeah in your case, but I was just thinking why bother with the extra copy rather than using the actual file Jan 03 23:33:54 trying to upgrade mse to mse2 broke it again Jan 03 23:34:09 lardman, no idea, it always does it Jan 03 23:34:14 actually, /var/tmp Jan 03 23:34:23 check it, you'll have a mafw-*.jpeg file there Jan 03 23:34:24 MohammadAG: just seems somewhat inefficient Jan 03 23:34:29 sure Jan 03 23:35:26 imo, it's very inefficient Jan 03 23:35:28 oh well Jan 03 23:35:43 /var/tmp/mafw-gst-renderer-IMUUOV.jpeg Jan 03 23:35:48 :) Jan 03 23:36:47 * MohammadAG needs a null image Jan 03 23:38:21 ok, i give up Jan 03 23:38:52 this computer is running mse (not mse2), and that's better than nothing Jan 03 23:39:54 mohammadag: can you add a now playing button to the home view? Jan 03 23:40:36 nokia's used the spinning disc/broken audio graph to get there Jan 03 23:40:45 totally unintuitive/broken Jan 03 23:40:52 but better than nothing Jan 03 23:41:48 Also - on random - some way back to the album view would be nice Jan 03 23:41:54 if you support albums Jan 03 23:42:02 also, you might want to read about copyright Jan 03 23:42:54 timeless_xchat, indeed, I want one too Jan 03 23:43:05 but why copyright? Jan 03 23:43:07 hrm, nokia's media player has 26 songs Jan 03 23:43:31 oh, ... for mozilla, we removed a bunch of copyright statements Jan 03 23:43:42 they screw up royally w/ localization Jan 03 23:43:58 i'll get a bug reference for you later Jan 03 23:44:41 timeless_xchat, can you check the fmtx dialog? Jan 03 23:44:44 it's a rewrite Jan 03 23:45:22 how? Jan 03 23:45:39 NowPlayingWindow -> tap title bar Jan 03 23:46:14 why do you only show 9 songs? Jan 03 23:46:48 bad padding on "Frequency" Jan 03 23:47:11 padding? Jan 03 23:47:31 I only show MP3s, I already said this isn't mafw Jan 03 23:48:13 your range is bigger than system (87 v. 88) Jan 03 23:48:35 space between left button edge and the "F" in Frequency Jan 03 23:49:50 blame the Maemo Qt team :P Jan 03 23:49:57 ... Jan 03 23:50:01 file a bug Jan 03 23:50:02 :D Jan 03 23:50:32 seriously Jan 03 23:51:02 it's your job as a dev to complain to your widget provider when it gives you crappy widgets Jan 03 23:51:36 it's the widget provider's job to wontfix them! Jan 03 23:51:36 and then you should consider working around or fixing the issue upstream Jan 03 23:52:00 javispedro: once they do that you have an excuse to get really drunk and violent Jan 03 23:52:02 javispedro : they can't do their job until you file a bug! Jan 03 23:55:47 wasn't this whole project a result of a bug being wontfixed? :P Jan 04 00:18:58 i would like to discuss an alternative mirror for easy-debian images. Now download is too slow. Is it possible? Jan 04 00:24:48 MohammadAG: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=536336#c0 is an explanation of why using copyright... makes no sense Jan 04 00:24:50 Bug 536336: was not found. Jan 04 00:24:58 yes dumb bot Jan 04 00:26:53 show_bug.cgi?id=13371337 Jan 04 00:27:00 hm Jan 04 00:32:15 how do you give bot a cookie to eat? Jan 04 00:33:05 ~cookie Jan 04 00:33:07 Hey lolloo, port 223 is cdc - Certificate Distribution Center Jan 04 00:33:32 ~cracker Jan 04 00:33:32 methinks cracker is defined at http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/cracker.html Jan 04 00:35:00 ~botsnack Jan 04 00:35:01 thanks, nox- Jan 04 00:35:19 ~botsnack Jan 04 00:35:19 aw, gee, kerio Jan 04 00:35:24 ^_^ so cute Jan 04 00:35:25 ~botsnack Jan 04 00:35:34 ~botsnack Jan 04 00:35:34 lolloo: aw, gee Jan 04 00:35:41 ~botsnack Jan 04 00:35:50 ~botsnack Jan 04 00:35:50 kerio: :) Jan 04 00:35:55 :DDDDDDD Jan 04 00:35:59 hehe Jan 04 00:36:09 I told her she'll get fat on too much snacks Jan 04 00:36:15 hehehe Jan 04 00:36:31 DocScrutinizer: :( Jan 04 00:43:07 lardman: I already know my currency. Learning a new one isn't "easier". :P Jan 04 00:43:40 * luke-jr peers at GeneralAntilles Jan 04 00:44:10 luke-jr: creeper. Jan 04 00:44:17 imagine being a 10 year old and choosing between lots of green notes which are all the same size and colour, and only have different numbers on them, vs different size and colour notes Jan 04 00:44:38 Size would make me crazy. Jan 04 00:44:44 Besides, the designs are way different. Jan 04 00:44:48 * lardman thinks, apart from the USA-bashing, that different sizes and colours is easier Jan 04 00:45:14 sure but still hard when it's dark/dim lighting Jan 04 00:45:20 which sounds quite bad :) Jan 04 00:45:31 I find the different sizes make it harder to fold into a neat wad in my pocket. Jan 04 00:45:54 But I understand that might be less of a concern than being able to tell bills apart at all if you're blind. Jan 04 00:45:55 derf: that is certainly true, but we're talking about differentiating between notes here Jan 04 00:46:18 s/blind/blind drunk Jan 04 00:46:34 bit of a difference between $10 and $100 ;) Jan 04 00:46:50 No one over here uses bills over $20. Jan 04 00:46:55 Well, not real people anyway. Jan 04 00:47:09 ah well perhaps that's my problem being a tourist Jan 04 00:47:15 Do we have a GPS cellid logger yet? Jan 04 00:47:28 at least i can tell the $1 notes apart as they are almost falling apart normally Jan 04 00:47:55 Actually .. Jan 04 00:48:27 Erm, yeah, do we? Jan 04 00:48:51 what's a cellid logger got to do with GPS? Jan 04 00:49:12 It would allow us to ascertain the location of cells Jan 04 00:49:29 So we can catalog cell towers with rough gps coverage Jan 04 00:49:50 hmm, strace the location daemon? :P Jan 04 00:49:55 speaking of cellids, this was interesting to read, I hope it doesn't damage the reputation of opensource phones: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12094227 Jan 04 00:50:23 lardman: I've actually just bought a phone compatible with osmocombb Jan 04 00:50:32 :) Jan 04 00:51:14 lardman: reminds me of the days when you could pick up your neighbours phone calls with a simple receiver :D Jan 04 00:51:22 you still can Jan 04 00:51:27 decoding them is harder Jan 04 00:51:35 Sure, I meant analog, before dect :P Jan 04 00:51:51 Hell, you could do the same to the first cell phones iirc Jan 04 00:51:57 That were analog right? Jan 04 00:52:07 yes Jan 04 00:52:09 Just cell enabled walky talkies basically. Jan 04 00:52:15 dect can be mitm'd too... Jan 04 00:52:29 nox-: I don't doubt, and I bet it's well easy. Jan 04 00:52:36 hehe Jan 04 00:52:47 This on the other hand puts the ability of anyone with the will into basically being able to track anyone by their phone number. Jan 04 00:52:57 yeah Jan 04 00:53:13 hmm, /me realises he doesn't actually have tomorrow off work, bed time Jan 04 00:53:18 night chaps Jan 04 00:53:53 And with a bit more money/effort they'd be able to listen into peoples calls live and receive their sms messages for about 2k Jan 04 00:54:01 Which is pennies .. Jan 04 00:54:17 * MohammadAG wants an open source N900 modem driver :P Jan 04 00:54:29 Wont work with 3G calls though Jan 04 00:54:37 and then there was that other talk about baseband gsm security holes... Jan 04 00:54:42 alterego: 3G jammer Jan 04 00:54:50 Heh Jan 04 00:54:52 most carriers have 2g/3g Jan 04 00:54:53 yeah, Jan 04 00:54:58 alterego, most people I know are 2G Jan 04 00:55:28 and by most I mean only 2 or 3 have 3G Jan 04 00:55:38 It'll be interesting to see if this is the beginning of surge of cellular security. Jan 04 00:55:52 Because 3G is basically just a stage up from 2G and a lot of the tech is identical. Jan 04 00:56:15 and 4G is a stage up from 3G? :P Jan 04 00:56:24 * alterego writes a plugin for columbus to do cellid logging Jan 04 00:56:30 this is good Jan 04 00:56:33 the matrix is collapsing Jan 04 00:56:36 pupnik: ? Jan 04 00:56:43 oh and there was one about gsm geolocation and android security too (which also had a way to query google apis to get locations of cellids) Jan 04 00:56:49 since governments track people by their phones, people should be able to track phones as well Jan 04 00:57:01 nox-: yeah, I was thinking we could do the same with ovi maps ;) Jan 04 00:57:12 ovi, haha Jan 04 00:57:14 :) Jan 04 00:57:37 Well, at least for me, ovi maps seems to be able to coarse locate me by cellid straight away .. Jan 04 00:57:49 It's how the agps works Jan 04 00:58:00 since the privacy battle is lost. let's support the openness battle Jan 04 00:58:11 pupnik: :D Jan 04 00:58:17 mh :) Jan 04 00:58:39 Hey, I'm all for it, if we could blow open the cellular network then maybe the system and handsets could just evolve into computers. Jan 04 00:59:13 Using SIP and such over the mobile carrier and effectively turn the GSM/3G etc networks into wifi hotspots ;) Jan 04 00:59:25 yes, like that - somehow. Jan 04 01:00:27 I also read today about a CUDA accelerated WPA/2 brute force cracker. Jan 04 01:01:43 wpa2 passphrase cracker? Jan 04 01:01:44 "Juniper said that one Fortune 15 company discovered that 5% - or 25,000 - of its mobile devices were infected with malware." Jan 04 01:02:09 SpeedEvil: PSK yeah Jan 04 01:02:13 mobile devices include windows laptops? Jan 04 01:02:29 Hahah Jan 04 01:02:37 nox-: I'd imagine that was their entire stat ;) Jan 04 01:02:48 stop relying on L2 encryption Jan 04 01:02:58 ds3: ? Jan 04 01:03:45 djb's talk was also... interesting Jan 04 01:06:22 alterego: encrypt on the app level... screw WPA/WEP and all the other crap Jan 04 01:06:37 remember you are on a broadcast network; encrypt your apps Jan 04 01:07:05 (he basically proposed an encrypted tcp replacement on top of udp together with dnscurve to replace https) Jan 04 01:08:08 ds3: I agree with that from a personal security perspective, my comms are usually sent through socks to a remote server. But that doesn't stop people breaking your wifis Jan 04 01:08:42 btw, just got the ephemeris data and full transaction dump to supl.nokia.com Jan 04 01:08:53 Should have cellid query in that and lat lon somewhere. Jan 04 01:08:54 CUDA, isn't that NVidia? Jan 04 01:08:56 * alterego pokes. Jan 04 01:09:24 MohammadAG: yes, it's a parallel/vector processing language kind of C like Jan 04 01:09:44 it's a language? o_O Jan 04 01:09:54 I thought it was some feature in their gfx cards Jan 04 01:10:02 It makes parallel computations extremely efficient and allows you to write computationally intesive code on your graphics cards GPU Jan 04 01:10:06 MohammadAG: it is Jan 04 01:10:09 hmm, both? Jan 04 01:10:33 how does a GPU help crack a WPA? Jan 04 01:11:24 Because you can use it for number crunching Jan 04 01:11:32 And it's a lot better at doing it than your CPU Jan 04 01:11:58 It's basically a parallel processing set of FP DSP cores Jan 04 01:12:13 It's the future maaaan. Jan 04 01:12:29 interesting Jan 04 01:12:31 Modern GPUs have >512 cores iirc Jan 04 01:16:25 Think I've got it. Jan 04 01:16:26 ~@. Jan 04 01:16:26 i heard @ is where it's at Jan 04 01:16:35 Hah Jan 04 01:16:40 Erm, think I've cracked it ;) Jan 04 01:21:07 alterego, do you think something like the nokia mediaplayer's bottom right spinning animated widget would be better done with QTimer or a timeline thingy? Jan 04 01:21:37 A timer Jan 04 01:22:12 was thinking of making it pop up like the buttons in columbus too :P Jan 04 01:22:29 Heh Jan 04 01:22:40 Well, it's supposed to be an indicator, so I wouldn't :P Jan 04 01:24:24 hmm, good point Jan 04 01:24:47 noticed that nokia's mediaplayer make an instance of it on each window Jan 04 01:25:11 I wonder if there's a flag in Qt so it's always visible on all windows Jan 04 01:29:58 this would be cool - http://i.imgur.com/3al7Q.jpg archos a70s plus psion netbook keyboard - in a leather case Jan 04 01:45:08 * alterego wonders if he's killed supl.nokia.com Jan 04 01:45:51 lol Jan 04 01:47:51 maybe supl.nokia.com "killed" you Jan 04 01:48:33 he looks alive to me Jan 04 01:48:39 unless they killed his alter ego Jan 04 01:50:53 has anyone here encountered a situation with their nokia internet tablet's LCD being damaged? Jan 04 02:07:49 i wish there was a console version of sms Jan 04 02:08:03 since I can ssh in to my phone Jan 04 02:09:09 there is one on tmo Jan 04 02:09:22 it's in python Jan 04 02:10:02 http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS Jan 04 02:10:20 thank you Jan 04 02:10:56 that was 15 seconds with google. you should be kicked Jan 04 02:11:25 anal much? Jan 04 02:11:49 it helps to not be a lazy idiot, comawhite Jan 04 02:12:24 i wasn't dildo Jan 04 02:12:36 i did n900 console sms dur Jan 04 02:15:36 Well, I've implemented the start of routing infrastructure into Columbus Jan 04 02:15:57 Just need to create some forms for creating chains of waypoints to create a route manually. Jan 04 02:16:12 Then V1 RC1 will be ready. Jan 04 02:17:14 you're writing another mapping app? Jan 04 02:17:27 nox-: nope Jan 04 02:17:35 nox-: well, not until V2 .. Jan 04 02:17:43 heh Jan 04 02:17:53 nox-: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/index.html Jan 04 02:18:03 It's more in the vein of a handheld GPS Jan 04 02:18:16 It's not meant to be a Tom Tom replacement or anything, there's plenty of those .. Jan 04 02:19:03 i c Jan 04 02:19:53 But inevitably, in the future I will probably add some mapping capability, as that seems to be what everyone wants. Jan 04 02:20:07 Then I guess it can join all those other lame mapping applications. Jan 04 02:20:38 :) Jan 04 02:21:03 cloudgps doesnt look too bad (unless you want routing) Jan 04 02:21:26 Oh yeah, my maps will definitely be hw accelerated ;) Jan 04 02:21:41 :) Jan 04 02:21:54 I also want to use SRTM data Jan 04 02:23:46 ummm dead birds falling out of the skies in Arkansas? :-o Jan 04 02:24:33 yeah and 3.something quake in uk... Jan 04 02:25:17 damn what strange tests is US army running? Jan 04 02:25:30 Don't forget those fish in ark too Jan 04 02:25:35 And the floods in Australia Jan 04 02:25:48 And the blizzards in the deep south :D Jan 04 02:25:58 floods in Australia aren't really exciting Jan 04 02:26:13 Neah, they get all the excitement, Jan 04 02:26:17 Floods, fires blah Jan 04 02:26:28 Though, Moscow had fires aswell :/ Jan 04 02:26:28 but 1000s of birds falling out of the sky dead, it's a bit strange Jan 04 02:26:42 that it is Jan 04 02:26:50 Yeah, and apparently the fish too. Jan 04 02:27:40 once hundreds of fish fell out of the sky near my house. a waterspout sucked them up from a lake Jan 04 02:27:52 Yeah, Jan 04 02:28:04 Quite common, fish raining. Jan 04 02:28:08 Happened in London once. Jan 04 02:28:20 wonder in which lake such a spout could suck up dead birds :-P Jan 04 02:28:41 Hahah Jan 04 02:28:50 Maybe it was the oil spill ;) Jan 04 02:29:01 ohh yeah Jan 04 02:29:08 or hail? Jan 04 02:29:16 Possibly ../ Jan 04 02:29:55 but 1000s of birds falling out of the sky dead, it's a bit strange Jan 04 02:29:56 what? Jan 04 02:30:30 yeah just heard that on npr Jan 04 02:30:32 strange Jan 04 02:31:54 you'd think hail of the size needed to instantly kill birds would have been noticed on ground level Jan 04 02:32:31 i could have melted further down into rain... Jan 04 02:32:35 DocScrutinizer, lol Jan 04 02:32:40 err it Jan 04 02:32:43 you would think Jan 04 02:34:15 needs a damn hot hairdryer to melt a hail grain^H^H ball of the size to kill a bird, on its way down from 2000, maybe 3000m to ground Jan 04 02:34:46 yeah maybe... Jan 04 02:34:57 It's pretty unlikely tbh :P Jan 04 02:35:09 but what else could it have been? Jan 04 02:35:11 More likely static electricity from the clouds just killed them all. Jan 04 02:35:12 Muahahahah Jan 04 02:35:21 hahahahaha Jan 04 02:35:25 *g* Jan 04 02:35:54 radar or other microwave sounds more plausible to me Jan 04 02:35:57 or poison Jan 04 02:36:22 hmm Jan 04 02:36:56 when if not at new year's fireworks you could fire a rocket with some antrax or dunno what, and nobody would notice Jan 04 02:37:14 :( Jan 04 02:37:21 well, new year is a few days ago Jan 04 02:37:35 npr said there was loud explosion type sounds heard and then the birds which was a type that normally nest at night started flying around and running into things and dying from internal bleeding from hitting things so hard. Jan 04 02:37:53 oh Jan 04 02:38:00 aren't they from angry birds? Jan 04 02:38:58 radec: sounds odd Jan 04 02:40:19 Hah, yeah, all the birds that fall in the name of duty killing those bitch pigs suddenly materialised ontop of ark Jan 04 02:40:34 hehehe Jan 04 02:40:53 I bet that wasn't a 3 star round then Jan 04 02:41:02 Heh Jan 04 02:41:21 Well, if it was I'm sure there'd be more than a few thousand. Jan 04 02:41:29 Wasn't it all one particular breed of bird as well? Jan 04 02:41:33 Like it is with the fish? Jan 04 02:41:48 angry fish, hmm, rovio need to up their game Jan 04 02:41:59 alterego: not from the 3s video on TV Jan 04 02:42:40 * alterego remembers James Pond Jan 04 02:42:45 looked like 2 or 3 different kind of birds on that street, with not really so much nearby where a bird could run into at night Jan 04 02:42:57 Hrm, m'kay Jan 04 02:43:19 I'm sure it's some kind of poison in the food chain. Jan 04 02:43:27 Possibly water. Jan 04 02:43:41 yeah, activated by a special detonation sound Jan 04 02:43:51 :-P Jan 04 02:43:55 Seems like the most likely explaination to me, but then, I guess we'll find out after they properly examine the birds. Jan 04 02:44:17 Activated by electric hail stones actually :P Jan 04 02:44:23 let's see what wikileaks will tell us about it in 2 years XD Jan 04 02:44:24 Created by bitch pigs :D Jan 04 02:44:29 Hahah Jan 04 02:45:03 haha Jan 04 02:47:15 http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/01/03/navy-to-investigate-commanders-vulgar-videos/ Jan 04 02:47:52 if picard had known... :) Jan 04 02:48:42 * DocScrutinizer thinks about a modified EMP bomb (detonator-coppercylinder-type), fitted to a microwave emitter to convert the detonation's energy in last copper winding (MegaAmps, KV) Jan 04 02:49:03 o_O Jan 04 02:54:15 For some insane reason I'm thinking of implementing a DBUS API for Columbus .. Jan 04 02:54:32 to do what? Jan 04 02:54:54 To signal certain events happening, like a waypoint being created/updated/deleted or reached. Jan 04 02:55:11 (not that a proper dbus api is anything bad at all - I just remember the times where almost all my apps had a REXX interface) Jan 04 02:55:23 haha Jan 04 02:56:09 Well, it'd be useful if I wanted to make libcolumbus into a service. Jan 04 02:56:14 I personally prefer scripting hooks, but yeah Jan 04 02:56:30 Then have the UI talk through DBUS, kind of like how mafw and media player work. Jan 04 02:58:32 (hooks) an execve() is the most generic communication interface you could have, I think. Assuming you pass the proper arguments Jan 04 02:58:48 Not sure what you mean. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 04 02:59:58 2011