**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 08 02:59:57 2011
Jan 08 03:10:37 <BCMM> is it normal for "QIcon::fromTheme("go-down")" to not work on maemo?
Jan 08 03:13:33 <ZogG_work> BCMM: last time we talked portage was updated again
Jan 08 03:13:40 <ZogG_work> it's 2.1.98 nowi think
Jan 08 03:14:22 <BCMM> ZogG_work: i don't see a 2.1.98
Jan 08 03:14:37 <ZogG_work> wait
Jan 08 03:14:51 <ZogG_work> maybe i just told wrong
Jan 08 03:15:46 <ZogG_work> or was it 2.1.9.29
Jan 08 03:15:59 <ZogG_work> anyway the day we talked i synced and got new version
Jan 08 03:16:07 <ZogG_work> i think we need talk about it everyday
Jan 08 03:16:59 <BCMM> i'm new to Qt and might be doing things stupidly, but presumably there is a small collection of standard icons available? i'm just trying to draw a simple arrow pointing down. QPushButton next(QIcon::fromTheme("go-down"), ""); works fine on my desktop, showing an icon from KDE's icon set. am i going about things the wrong way?
Jan 08 03:17:13 <BCMM> (i get no error or anything; just a button with no icon)
Jan 08 03:27:54 <ZogG_work> did u draw it?
Jan 08 03:28:25 <ZogG_work> i don't understand anything in it at all but as it fromTheme probably u put the icon in wrong place
Jan 08 03:29:51 <BCMM> ZogG_work: no, i'm trying to use standard icons
Jan 08 03:30:26 <ZogG_work> are u sure it has "go-down name?
Jan 08 03:31:23 <ZogG_work> hmm google should
Jan 08 03:31:31 <ZogG_work> google showed me that it's ok
Jan 08 03:31:39 <ZogG_work> try to use ' instead of "
Jan 08 03:31:57 <BCMM> ZogG_work: uh, that's C++ source code.
Jan 08 03:32:05 <BCMM> looking at /usr/share/icons/hicolor/, it appears maemo doesn't have standard icons
Jan 08 03:32:39 <ZogG_work> fwd_button->setIcon(QIcon::fromTheme("go-next", QIcon(":/icons/go-next.png")));
Jan 08 03:33:32 <BCMM> (also, i know that code is correct-ish, because the same code running on my desktop uses KDE's standard up and down icons)
Jan 08 03:34:11 <BCMM> ZogG_work: thanks, but that's pretty much the same
Jan 08 03:34:48 <BCMM> (except that you're setting the icon on a button that already exists instead of creating a button, and that's a right-pointing instead of down-pointing button.)
Jan 08 03:34:54 <BCMM> arrow, rather
Jan 08 03:35:23 <BCMM> in any case, go-next.png is also in standard icon themes, but absent on maemo
Jan 08 03:35:59 <BCMM> i can use rss_reader_move_down though
Jan 08 03:36:45 <ZogG_work> no way maemo doesn't have standart icons
Jan 08 03:36:53 <BCMM> i can understand them not putting in a full set of freedesktop icons to save space, since that would include loads of stuff that would never get used
Jan 08 03:37:02 <ZogG_work> just maybe u should set the default dir
Jan 08 03:37:10 <BCMM> ZogG_work: to what?
Jan 08 03:37:12 <ZogG_work> as hildon is not qt
Jan 08 03:38:05 <ZogG_work> i mean not all icons
Jan 08 03:38:12 <ZogG_work> but at least the most standart
Jan 08 03:38:21 <ZogG_work> as they are used in apps
Jan 08 03:44:35 <DocScrutinizer> *standard
Jan 08 03:45:15 <ZogG_work> DocScrutinizer: i was talking about stand-art =)
Jan 08 03:46:20 <BCMM> is there anything wrong with using rss_reader_move_down in my application, and is there anything like a collection of maemo-style icons that one can use in applications?
Jan 08 03:46:57 <BCMM> (other than the general_ icons, which i already found)
Jan 08 03:47:22 <DocScrutinizer> I think the hildon icons you can assume to exist. Otherwise your app should have its own icon set
Jan 08 03:48:17 <DocScrutinizer> not sure what's going to happen to rss_reader_move_down if I deinstall rss reader
Jan 08 03:50:36 <DocScrutinizer> quite obviously you'll not find KDE icons on maemo
Jan 08 04:01:51 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: i wasn't expecting to find KDE's icons, nor was i using them, specifically
Jan 08 04:02:08 <BCMM> go-next.png is a freedesktop standard
Jan 08 04:05:32 <DocScrutinizer51> ooh, wasn't aware there's a freedesktop set of icons. Anyway i'm not too optimistic about maemo/hildon's freedesktop conformity
Jan 08 04:09:17 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer51: yeah it's neat, means KDE and Gnome stuff use the same icon-naming scheme, and an application that wants to fit in on either can just say it wants the current theme's "Save" icon or whatever and look good on either
Jan 08 04:10:00 <BCMM> i can see why taht isn't in maemo though, since for example the Oxygen set is 40MB
Jan 08 04:10:49 <DocScrutinizer51> hmm, so either it comes with maemo/hildon by default, or there should be a pkg to install those icons
Jan 08 04:11:09 <BCMM> a freedesktop set, you mean?
Jan 08 04:11:24 <DocScrutinizer51> yep
Jan 08 04:11:47 <BCMM> well, the chief problem is probably the way one doesn't exist :)
Jan 08 04:11:54 <BCMM> i mean, to match maemo's style
Jan 08 04:12:16 <DocScrutinizer51> :nod:
Jan 08 04:12:39 <BCMM> the main reason i'm surprised is that maemo has i quite distinctive icon style, especially when it comes to arrows
Jan 08 04:13:13 <BCMM> ^a quite
Jan 08 04:13:35 <BCMM> and i don't know why i haven't noticed inconsistancy
Jan 08 04:13:50 <DocScrutinizer51> probably if there was such a icon pkg, then apps had to find a way to extract and install only the icons they need
Jan 08 04:15:17 <BCMM> i mean that little "v"-shaped arrow with no stem is in quite a few places, even being used to indicate when the window icon is clickable
Jan 08 04:15:44 <BCMM> of course, the browser uses a more traditional arrow for no particular reason...
Jan 08 04:25:48 <dotblank> hmm
Jan 08 04:26:24 <dotblank> Yea I didn't notice a freedesktop icon set
Jan 08 04:26:32 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer51: heh, there is indeed some failure from having each app reinvent icons
Jan 08 04:26:37 <BCMM> diff /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon/general_back.png /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon/qgn_back_fsm.png
Jan 08 04:26:37 <dotblank> or at least I tried to use it
Jan 08 04:26:51 <BCMM> what do "fsm" and "qgn" stand for there?
Jan 08 04:27:58 <BCMM> dotblank: there is definitely, definitely not one, at least in scratchbox
Jan 08 04:29:38 <jacekowski> infobot: fsm is Flying Spaghetti Monster
Jan 08 04:29:39 <infobot> ...but fsm is already something else...
Jan 08 04:29:42 <jacekowski> ~fsm
Jan 08 04:29:42 <infobot> fsm is probably The Flying Spaghetti Monster, the deity of the internet
Jan 08 04:29:57 <jacekowski> ~qqn
Jan 08 04:31:51 <dotblank> ugh.. I really don't want to rewrite my whole playlist system again :(
Jan 08 04:48:17 <ZogG_work> screw you guys, i'm going home =)
Jan 08 04:56:20 <pupnik> good mooorning maemotnam!
Jan 08 05:02:52 <SpeedEvil> http://www.tesco.com/apps/iPhone/ - on-topic - really
Jan 08 05:03:36 <SpeedEvil> Is anyone in a position to tcpdump the above app, when it's scanning a barcode?
Jan 08 05:06:04 <kthomas_vh> heh
Jan 08 05:13:41 * pupnik salutes kthomas_vh 
Jan 08 05:13:52 <pupnik> well i'm too stupid to set up samba in 2011
Jan 08 05:13:58 <pupnik> or someone's messing with me
Jan 08 05:33:13 <ZogG> pupnik why would you need samba at all?
Jan 08 05:33:44 <jacekowski> SpeedEvil: it's probably using tesco grocery api
Jan 08 05:34:00 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: what do you mean by that?
Jan 08 05:34:32 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: I was assuming they have a private API - hence the question.
Jan 08 05:35:04 <jacekowski> http://www.techfortesco.com/forum/
Jan 08 05:35:14 <jacekowski> it's probably same api
Jan 08 05:35:22 <pupnik> ZogG: share media stuff
Jan 08 05:35:56 <pupnik> oh firewall.. duh
Jan 08 05:36:27 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: I'd not seen this at all, thanks.
Jan 08 05:36:32 <SpeedEvil> jacekowski: how new is this?
Jan 08 05:36:46 <jacekowski> old
Jan 08 05:37:34 <jacekowski> at least year or so
Jan 08 05:40:50 <SpeedEvil> thanks
Jan 08 05:41:03 <ZogG> pupnik ftp, networksharing, bluetooth
Jan 08 05:41:18 <ZogG> let the F windows to try to find solution
Jan 08 05:41:22 <ZogG> we don't bend anymore
Jan 08 05:43:39 <pupnik> there should be a knots2 client for android i guess
Jan 08 05:43:47 <pupnik> then my friends could download that
Jan 08 05:43:54 <pupnik> and i wouldn't have to mess with samba
Jan 08 05:51:33 <yahyayah> greetings
Jan 08 05:52:32 <yahyayah> im currently using the n900 and today my fone went crazy.  It wont go past the boot screen without powering down.
Jan 08 05:52:43 <yahyayah> anyone have any ideas to trouble shooting this issue
Jan 08 05:53:15 <SpeedEvil> Did you do anthing to it?
Jan 08 05:56:15 <yahyayah> recently updated the firmware
Jan 08 05:56:34 <yahyayah> ive had this isssue before but i would boot after a couple tries
Jan 08 05:56:52 <yahyayah> unfortunately this time it just keeps rebooting and never goes into the nokia splash screen
Jan 08 05:59:33 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I'm particularly tired ATM - going to sleep. Good luck
Jan 08 06:03:05 <yahyayah> any one have any advice
Jan 08 06:20:35 <pupnik> hi yahyayah
Jan 08 06:20:52 <yahyayah> hello pupnik
Jan 08 06:21:20 <pupnik> reflash the device
Jan 08 06:21:44 <yahyayah> i will give it a try
Jan 08 06:22:47 <yahyayah> when i plug in my usb and power up the phone it continues to keep rebooting but doesnt go into the nokia splash,  do you think the phone will stay on long enough to flash it
Jan 08 06:23:22 <SpeedEvil> It doesn't need to get that far to flash
Jan 08 06:23:33 <pupnik> if i said 'no' what would you do?
Jan 08 06:23:36 <SpeedEvil> I would first try removing the battery fgor 5 mins
Jan 08 06:23:54 <pupnik> if i said 'yes' what would you do?
Jan 08 06:24:00 <pupnik> reflash the device
Jan 08 06:24:10 <pupnik> :)
Jan 08 06:25:33 <yahyayah> Thank you much, i will give it a try
Jan 08 06:49:13 <jef91> Howdy folks, so I just got an N900 off ebay and the person who had it before me left a lock code on it... I even reflashed the eMMC and PR1.3 images and it still asks for a code at startup - any ideas how I can get around this?
Jan 08 06:49:36 <FauxFaux> There's like a million google results for how to recover the lock code; they're reasonably involved though.
Jan 08 06:49:48 <jef91> Gah fuck my life.
Jan 08 06:49:57 <jef91> Why didn't flashing the eMMC reset it?
Jan 08 06:50:04 <jef91> thought it was suppose to wipe everything
Jan 08 06:50:05 <FauxFaux> I'd happily fuck pretty much anything tbh.
Jan 08 06:50:17 <SpeedEvil> jef91: you've tried the stock 12345?
Jan 08 06:50:38 <jef91> Yep
Jan 08 06:50:40 <jef91> and 00000
Jan 08 06:50:54 <SpeedEvil> you've mailed the seller?
Jan 08 06:51:04 <jef91> yea just did
Jan 08 06:51:12 <jef91> pain in the ass though, wanted to get it setup tonight
Jan 08 06:51:19 <SpeedEvil> :/
Jan 08 06:51:21 <pupnik> jef91: perhaps you should take it to the police
Jan 08 06:51:26 <pupnik> if your seller didn't have the code
Jan 08 06:51:37 <jef91> pff *rolls eyes*
Jan 08 06:51:40 <pupnik> or are you the thief?
Jan 08 06:51:55 <jef91> Jag off.
Jan 08 06:52:27 <jef91> Guess I'll wait for his response. He won't be getting very good feedback.
Jan 08 06:53:23 <jef91> Peace guys, late here. Heading off to sleep,
Jan 08 06:53:27 <pupnik> cu
Jan 08 06:54:26 <pupnik> in an era where contacts and data are so important, stealing such devices is like horse theft in the american west
Jan 08 07:35:22 <Arkenoi> flashlight-extra or cl-launcher?
Jan 08 07:39:52 <dsfa> hi..
Jan 08 07:41:00 <dsfa> i used transmission and it worked just fine until 1 time it crashed n900 and i had to remove the battery and from that time on it keeps crashing it as soon as it starts download a file no matter how many times i reinstalled it and i don't know what to do...
Jan 08 07:47:33 <MaikB> Hello.  I can't find `less' in the fremantle/extra-
Jan 08 07:47:35 <MaikB> *
Jan 08 07:47:37 <MaikB> repos
Jan 08 07:47:48 <MaikB> Is it gone?
Jan 08 07:49:15 <dotblank> I'm so giddy, I got abstractitemmodel to work :)
Jan 08 07:50:02 <SpeedEvil> ut;s inb ti0igth
Jan 08 07:50:07 <SpeedEvil> it's in tools, I think
Jan 08 07:50:14 <dotblank> lol
Jan 08 07:50:21 <SpeedEvil> MaikB:
Jan 08 07:50:37 <MaikB> tools you say..
Jan 08 07:51:10 <MaikB> SpeedEvil, thats a category, right?
Jan 08 07:51:21 <MaikB> apt-get install less fails
Jan 08 07:52:03 <ShadowJK> sdk tools repository
Jan 08 07:52:26 <ShadowJK> (which is different from dsk repository, which is bad to use on device)
Jan 08 07:53:04 <MaikB> oic
Jan 08 07:53:17 <MaikB> SpeedEvil, ShadowJK : thx, I'll go for that
Jan 08 07:58:31 <MaikB> SpeedEvil, ShadowJK : worked, thx!
Jan 08 07:58:46 <MaikB> now I can read man pages while Im in the gym
Jan 08 07:58:49 <MaikB> yay
Jan 08 08:15:05 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kegkn5NTm34  barcoo barcode scanner - quite fast
Jan 08 08:21:11 <Arkenoi> the problem with barcodes is absense of decent general purpose barcode search engine
Jan 08 08:21:49 <Arkenoi> you may find *some* books, *some* dvds and *some* consumer goods
Jan 08 08:22:14 <Arkenoi> scanning, say, a bottle of wine and getting a decent review on what's inside is rare luck :-(
Jan 08 08:39:43 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: See above.
Jan 08 08:40:04 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: it's a store API - so only does what they sell.
Jan 08 09:25:57 <taz> where on the n900 are CA-certs stored? i know where i put them  >>  /usr/share/ca-certificates  and link them to /etc/ssl/blah but where do the majority of them live?
Jan 08 09:32:54 <taz> waait try the filemanager install bit
Jan 08 10:50:17 <alterego> also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12138790
Jan 08 10:50:19 <alterego> teeheehee
Jan 08 10:55:56 <ieatlint> from what i recall hearing about that, it was a UI-related bug, in which on very rare occasion, the UI for sending an SMS which switch to a different recipient from your list of open SMS conversations
Jan 08 10:57:16 <ieatlint> and the UI would always reflect the recipient when you pressed send, but it would change without user intervention, which reports that it was a race condition of sorts (like if you're switching between 5 SMS conversations, it could randomly pop back to one you previously looked at, and you may not realise it as you type out a message)
Jan 08 11:01:07 <dany> hi all
Jan 08 11:01:17 <dany> hi all
Jan 08 11:02:04 <ShadowJK> hello
Jan 08 11:33:48 <eichi> hello. if i bye a n900 from a person, which used the kernel patch for 800mhz, is this device maybe a problem, or is overclocking from 600 tu 800 no problem at all?
Jan 08 11:34:20 <Tsuyo> I overclocked mine up to 900 and it's working very well
Jan 08 11:36:23 <eichi> okay. hm, maybe the device will die sooner, bit i think, its not a problem
Jan 08 11:37:04 <Tsuyo> If my device dies too fast, i just reflash it, and send it back. :p
Jan 08 11:37:20 <Tsuyo> Depends, what dies at the end.^^
Jan 08 11:37:27 <alterego> eichi: no guarantees it'll last as long as those that haven't oc'd but 800 isn't as bad as others'
Jan 08 11:39:12 <Tsuyo> I read, someone pushed it onto 1900 mhz.
Jan 08 11:39:21 <Tsuyo> It's like a god damn bomb in your pants
Jan 08 11:40:07 <alterego> Heh
Jan 08 11:40:31 <alterego> Personally I wouldn't overclock, my device is too important to me.
Jan 08 11:41:02 <Tsuyo> Well you see a big difference between 650 and 900 ;)
Jan 08 11:41:40 <alterego> It's not important to me, the device is more than capable for all my needs.
Jan 08 11:42:10 <alterego> I'm still suprised of how well it performs, like using mplayer the other day to watch a divx copy of inception
Jan 08 11:42:20 <maybeWTF> you clearly need to overclock so you can run xplane and asphalt5 at the same time without any framerate loss
Jan 08 11:42:31 <alterego> It was brilliant, it's only the display that lets it down in that regard, under low light
Jan 08 11:43:03 <alterego> They pause on context switch ..
Jan 08 11:43:17 <alterego> So it doesn't matter :P
Jan 08 11:45:35 <Tsuyo> Oh, today i watches some Videos on my N900. Well.. connected to my TV. And it was kinda.. slow Oo
Jan 08 11:45:44 <Tsuyo> It tooked like 20 seconds to pause that video
Jan 08 11:45:48 <Tsuyo> It's simple Avi
Jan 08 11:46:10 <Tsuyo> Does someone have that trouble too? It stucked some seconds too while playing
Jan 08 11:48:30 <Arkenoi> Tsuyo, install replacement pulseaudio package
Jan 08 11:48:54 <Tsuyo> Aye ;)
Jan 08 12:02:31 <Termana> good morning
Jan 08 12:12:06 <spiritd> hmmm
Jan 08 12:12:24 <spiritd> where can I find configuration file for xterm?
Jan 08 12:12:31 <spiritd> or is there any other terminals?
Jan 08 12:16:01 <DocScrutinizer> ~tell Tsuyo about omap-oc
Jan 08 12:16:51 <DocScrutinizer> xterm is configured via gconf afaik
Jan 08 12:18:28 <spiritd> DocScrutinizer I am getting weird behaviour... everytime i tries to mount or chroot /.debian or something like that
Jan 08 12:18:41 <spiritd> i tries to run xterm....
Jan 08 12:19:00 <spiritd> it tries to mount ... etc
Jan 08 12:19:28 <DocScrutinizer> sorry you lost me
Jan 08 12:29:39 <spiritd> DocScrutinizer http://basemod.bplaced.com/data2/IMG_4949.JPG
Jan 08 12:30:34 <spiritd> happens everytime i run xterm
Jan 08 12:31:14 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Jan 08 12:31:38 <spiritd> i looked at shorcut ... and its is ok osso-xterm ... no args
Jan 08 12:31:40 <ieatlint> might be part of his bash profile
Jan 08 12:31:48 <DocScrutinizer> somebody messed around with your startup scripts (~/.profile etc)
Jan 08 12:31:51 <ieatlint> or sh, or whatever the hell busybox is giving
Jan 08 12:32:08 <spiritd> ye thats what i am finding
Jan 08 12:33:53 <spiritd> dont have .profile
Jan 08 12:34:04 <spiritd> only .bash_history .ash_history
Jan 08 12:35:55 <ieatlint> check for an /etc/profile
Jan 08 12:36:41 <spiritd> its links to /etc/osso-af-init/ad-defines.sh
Jan 08 12:36:45 <spiritd> af
Jan 08 12:36:55 <spiritd> not symlink...
Jan 08 12:37:13 <spiritd> in file
Jan 08 12:37:13 <spiritd> source /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh
Jan 08 12:40:23 <spiritd> whats default shell for user and root?
Jan 08 12:40:46 <BCMM> spiritd: busybox's /bin/sh
Jan 08 12:41:11 <BCMM> shells people actually like are available too
Jan 08 12:43:13 <DocScrutinizer> ~messybox
Jan 08 12:43:13 <infobot> messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
Jan 08 12:43:46 <DocScrutinizer> t900:~# ls -l `which sh`
Jan 08 12:43:47 <DocScrutinizer> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            7 Dec 12 04:50 /bin/sh -> busybox
Jan 08 12:43:52 <BCMM> busybox is like MacOS
Jan 08 12:44:04 <BCMM> by which i mean PS doesn't do what you want and it drives you mad
Jan 08 12:44:26 <BCMM> dunno why i capitalised that
Jan 08 12:44:45 <BCMM> aww, no BSD fans getting angry...
Jan 08 12:44:49 <spiritd> and why is used busybox's /bin/sh and not bash or full sh?
Jan 08 12:45:29 <DocScrutinizer> see above. It's meant for scripting and low mem usage
Jan 08 12:45:31 <BCMM> it is a "full sh", isn't it? i mean, it fulfils POSIX's requirements?
Jan 08 12:45:46 <kerio> spiritd: because nokia
Jan 08 12:46:40 <BCMM> spiritd: yeah, low mem usage. applications are kinda allowed to expect a POSIX-compatible sh, and i'm sure lots come with a wrapper script or something that requires it
Jan 08 12:46:56 <DocScrutinizer> actually you must not replace busybox for user standard shell or you will get bootloop
Jan 08 12:47:11 <BCMM> starting a larger shell for each of those might actually matter on a machine like the n900
Jan 08 12:47:30 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: what does "standard user shell" mean?
Jan 08 12:47:54 <BCMM> you mustn't change your login shell, or mustn't try and replace /bin/sh?
Jan 08 12:47:56 <spiritd> settings in passwd?
Jan 08 12:47:58 <DocScrutinizer> hell, it didn't matter on my 128MB 300MHz-PII panasonic toughbook
Jan 08 12:48:35 <spiritd> where can I change which shell will be used?
Jan 08 12:48:43 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, settings in passwd,
Jan 08 12:49:09 <BCMM> i have user:*:29999:29999::/home/user:/bin/bash and no bootloop, what gives?
Jan 08 12:49:24 <DocScrutinizer> do not replace neither /bin/sh nor user's login shell
Jan 08 12:49:51 <BCMM> oh, sorry. misread "yeah, settings in passwd," as a reply to my "what must i not do"
Jan 08 12:49:52 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: probably you don't have bash in /etc/shells
Jan 08 12:50:16 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: no, i misunderstood and wondered why it was all working fine
Jan 08 12:50:34 <BCMM> so they depend on the difference between bourne and busybox in some script, or what?
Jan 08 12:50:39 <DocScrutinizer> yes, and right so. It's supposed to fail
Jan 08 12:50:48 <DocScrutinizer> yes, exactly
Jan 08 12:51:04 <DocScrutinizer> they use busyboxisms in initscripts
Jan 08 12:51:07 <DocScrutinizer> I heard
Jan 08 12:51:11 <BCMM> hang on, what's supposed to fail?
Jan 08 12:51:25 <DocScrutinizer> user:*:29999:29999::/home/user:/bin/bash
Jan 08 12:51:32 <BCMM> oh
Jan 08 12:51:43 <spiritd> so if i did this "user:*:29999:29999::/home/user:/bin/bash" bash will not be used?
Jan 08 12:51:45 <BCMM> why is that supposed to fail?
Jan 08 12:51:46 <spiritd> *d
Jan 08 12:51:48 <spiritd> do
Jan 08 12:51:58 <DocScrutinizer> except if it "fails" because bash isn't in etc/shells
Jan 08 12:52:12 <BCMM> i used bash-setup, iirc
Jan 08 12:52:22 <spiritd> and if I add it?
Jan 08 12:52:34 <BCMM> maybe that's why it's in /etc/shells for me
Jan 08 12:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, so it works for you now?
Jan 08 12:53:15 <DocScrutinizer> you start up xterm and have bash?
Jan 08 12:53:20 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: yeah. ssh too
Jan 08 12:53:42 <DocScrutinizer> great!! maybe they fixed that nonsense in initscripts
Jan 08 12:53:53 <DocScrutinizer> the info is from back with 1.0 iirc
Jan 08 12:54:09 <spiritd> i dont have /etc/shells
Jan 08 12:54:27 <DocScrutinizer> then you also won't get any other login shell
Jan 08 12:54:38 <RST38h> Moo all.
Jan 08 12:54:44 <DocScrutinizer> moo RST38h
Jan 08 12:54:44 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: why would init scripts care what the *user* uses as a login shell?
Jan 08 12:54:57 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, a miracle
Jan 08 12:55:13 <RST38h> Doc: Anything exciting while I was away?
Jan 08 12:55:36 <BCMM> oh god, you actually did mean that there were initscripts that depended on user's login shell?
Jan 08 12:55:49 <DocScrutinizer> it had been confirmed it doesn't matter for root, but bootloops for user changed login shell
Jan 08 12:55:57 <spiritd> BCMM so how did you setup bash as default shell for xterm?
Jan 08 12:56:06 <DocScrutinizer> RST38h: yea! I was away ;-P
Jan 08 12:56:32 <BCMM> spiritd: can't remember i'm afraid, but it was either using bash-setup, the normal linux way of doing it, or both
Jan 08 12:56:48 <DocScrutinizer> spiritd: a shell isn't default for xterm. Rather for a user account
Jan 08 12:57:36 <spiritd> btw i changed passwd for user to bash and still getting this "mount shit message"
Jan 08 12:57:59 <DocScrutinizer> add /etc/shells
Jan 08 12:58:13 <DocScrutinizer> otherwise your setting in passwd gets ignored
Jan 08 12:58:40 <DocScrutinizer> in passwd only shells are allowed that are in /etc/shells
Jan 08 12:58:44 * RST38h laughs satanically
Jan 08 12:58:52 <spiritd> well but it shows -bash-2.05b$
Jan 08 12:58:57 <DocScrutinizer> if you try anything else, it defaults to /bin/sh
Jan 08 13:02:58 <DocScrutinizer> check ~/.bashrc and ~/.profile and /etc/profile
Jan 08 13:06:00 <DocScrutinizer> also scrutinize your easy-debian installation/setup
Jan 08 13:06:14 <DocScrutinizer> ...or whatever it is that does a chroot
Jan 08 13:06:41 <DocScrutinizer> chroot isn't normal part of maemo xterm startup
Jan 08 13:08:59 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: yes, it seems either initscripts or xsession setup depends on user's login shell
Jan 08 13:09:55 <DocScrutinizer> my guess would be it's xsession
Jan 08 13:10:55 <DocScrutinizer> and as killing X causes device to reboot afaik
Jan 08 13:10:57 <DocScrutinizer> ...
Jan 08 13:12:17 * ShadowJK found a cool benchmark app through googling
Jan 08 13:12:18 <ShadowJK> "rebench"
Jan 08 13:12:40 <DocScrutinizer> damn, I miss a proper console under shift-alt-F1, on maemo :-)
Jan 08 13:12:49 <ShadowJK> Sandisk class 2 microsd, 4k random writes: 18.58 kbyte/s
Jan 08 13:13:02 <DocScrutinizer> ouch
Jan 08 13:13:03 <ShadowJK> 512k random writes: 1511 kbyte/s
Jan 08 13:21:20 <spiritd> it looks that osso-xterm runs debian script
Jan 08 13:21:25 <spiritd> dunno why
Jan 08 13:23:37 <ieatlint> free ice cream sandwiches for everyone
Jan 08 13:26:03 * MohammadAG has a bad feeling about his USB port
Jan 08 13:28:12 <DocScrutinizer> spiritd: it gets called in any of the .profile et al files
Jan 08 13:29:59 <DocScrutinizer> spiritd: try >> bash --verbose
Jan 08 13:30:58 <lardman> "morning"
Jan 08 13:32:40 <DocScrutinizer> morning lardman
Jan 08 13:32:47 <lardman> hi doc
Jan 08 13:32:53 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: check it!!
Jan 08 13:33:30 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: *you* know how to disassemble and what to check and how to fix
Jan 08 13:34:07 <spiritd> DocScrutinizer where can i get default profile bashrc etc?
Jan 08 13:34:19 <DocScrutinizer> hmm
Jan 08 13:34:24 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, it's fine with a USB cable, but the new charger needs some power to be taken out
Jan 08 13:34:29 <MohammadAG> s/power/force
Jan 08 13:35:53 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: then plug the charger to some crappy junk device with a micro USB some 100s of times. Then it will get better
Jan 08 13:36:26 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, or I could file it
Jan 08 13:36:48 <DocScrutinizer> discourraged
Jan 08 13:37:07 <MohammadAG> hmm
Jan 08 13:37:09 <MohammadAG> k
Jan 08 13:37:15 * MohammadAG uses an N86 to file it
Jan 08 13:37:18 <MohammadAG> :P
Jan 08 13:40:14 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: use a soft pencil (the pen with graphite) and "paint the 0.2*0.3mm backsides of the two hooks on wider side of plug
Jan 08 13:40:26 <DocScrutinizer> "paint"
Jan 08 13:41:13 <DocScrutinizer> the graphite will stick to that surfaces and lubricate the hooks when unlocking
Jan 08 13:42:49 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: I mean the area that you block on when scrating acros that side of plug with your fingernail. The small steep backside of that node-shaped 2 notches
Jan 08 13:43:04 <DocScrutinizer> s/node/nose/ :-)
Jan 08 13:44:51 <DocScrutinizer> when you hold the plugh upwards and look at its small side, then you need to paint the "noses" nostril-surface :-D
Jan 08 13:46:35 <DocScrutinizer> soft pencils are great for that kind of lubrication tasks
Jan 08 13:49:03 <DocScrutinizer> spiritd: I suggest you uninstall and reinstall bash pkg
Jan 08 13:49:45 <MohammadAG> got it :D
Jan 08 13:50:13 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: even painting the whole outer surface of the plug won't hurt
Jan 08 13:50:37 <DocScrutinizer> it might buckle
Jan 08 13:50:49 <trumee> is there webpage to check if N900 is under warranty?
Jan 08 13:51:16 <DocScrutinizer> nice thing about graphite: it doesn't flow to places where you don't want it
Jan 08 13:51:28 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: yes
Jan 08 13:51:35 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: where?
Jan 08 13:51:47 <DocScrutinizer> nokia.com I guess
Jan 08 13:52:18 <DocScrutinizer> two users here in this chan found it some 7 days ago
Jan 08 13:52:37 <DocScrutinizer> I never looked for it
Jan 08 13:52:44 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: ok found it, http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/repair/repair/warranty?c=1
Jan 08 13:53:22 <DocScrutinizer> I'm *very* anxious to learn if your device as well has 10 days warranty left over :-D
Jan 08 13:53:58 <DocScrutinizer> or maybe only 2 today
Jan 08 13:54:41 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: "Yes - your device with the serial number is still within the warranty period in this country". doesnt say how much?
Jan 08 13:54:58 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Jan 08 13:56:17 <trumee> alterego: did you buy your device in the UK?
Jan 08 13:56:56 <MohammadAG> is tmo covered by warranty?
Jan 08 13:57:09 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: any idea what is the standard Nokia warranty period?
Jan 08 13:57:21 <lardman> lol
Jan 08 13:57:22 <DocScrutinizer> http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-12-31.log.html#t2010-12-31T04:52:03  http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-12-31.log.html#t2010-12-31T08:29:41
Jan 08 13:57:32 <lardman> my pre-summit device is also within warranty
Jan 08 13:57:38 <toggles> http://www.youmobile.org/blogs/entry/Nokia-N900-PR-1-4-launch-Q2-2011and-may-have-MeeGo1-2-with-Dual-boot ?
Jan 08 13:57:43 <spiritd> hmm ... i installed scratchbox ... but i am not "user" but "ubuntuuser"
Jan 08 13:58:21 <lardman> spiritd: should be fine
Jan 08 13:58:50 <MohammadAG> mine?
Jan 08 13:59:04 <spiritd> but i cant sudo gainroot
Jan 08 13:59:25 <lardman> use fakeroot
Jan 08 13:59:34 <MohammadAG> lol!
Jan 08 13:59:44 <spiritd> :)
Jan 08 13:59:50 <MohammadAG> sudo su silly
Jan 08 14:00:04 <lardman> in sb?
Jan 08 14:00:22 <MohammadAG> ah
Jan 08 14:00:23 * trumee is thinking to buy a cheap usb cable from ebay and file its usb port.
Jan 08 14:00:30 <lardman> toggles: where has all that come from then?
Jan 08 14:00:44 <spiritd> btw is it normal when i want ENTER in scratchbox i must ctrl+enter in ubuntu?
Jan 08 14:01:05 <lardman> in the UI? I seem to remember a bug for that
Jan 08 14:02:18 <spiritd> y in UI
Jan 08 14:02:25 <spiritd> i have 10.04 ubuntu
Jan 08 14:02:50 <spiritd> su command not found
Jan 08 14:03:01 <spiritd> fck how can i change user withou su? :D
Jan 08 14:03:04 <DocScrutinizer> possibly related to NK-enter bug of maemo
Jan 08 14:03:15 <lardman> just use fakeroot to perform root actions
Jan 08 14:03:32 <MohammadAG> why use the terminal UI?
Jan 08 14:03:48 <MohammadAG> use the shell you get when you use /scratchbox/login
Jan 08 14:04:18 <spiritd> MohammadAG my osso-xterm on n900 giving me this http://basemod.bplaced.com/data2/IMG_4949.JPG
Jan 08 14:04:49 <spiritd> so i am trying to find default configs to reset it
Jan 08 14:05:00 <spiritd> it has somethins to do with easy-debina chroot
Jan 08 14:05:37 <lardman> spiritd: you were talking about scratchbox tho?
Jan 08 14:05:43 <spiritd> yes
Jan 08 14:05:48 <lardman> on the N900?
Jan 08 14:05:50 <spiritd> no
Jan 08 14:05:55 <spiritd> on ubuntu 9.04
Jan 08 14:06:04 <lardman> right, so use fakeroot for that
Jan 08 14:06:32 <lardman> and don't use xephyr, use the /scratchbox/login shell
Jan 08 14:06:32 <spiritd> i have problem on my n900... but dunno what is wrong so i am trying to find how it works if its ok in scrachbox and than compare it with n900
Jan 08 14:06:46 <lardman> oh I see
Jan 08 14:07:40 <MohammadAG> ssh and purge osso-xterm
Jan 08 14:07:42 <lardman> and your problem is that you can't find a file on /media/mmc1/ ?
Jan 08 14:07:45 <MohammadAG> then install it again
Jan 08 14:08:44 * lardman goes back to browsing the interweb
Jan 08 14:09:00 <spiritd> MohammadAG ok
Jan 08 14:12:40 <DocScrutinizer51> MHD is sooooooooo cute
Jan 08 14:14:15 <DocScrutinizer51> ctl(down), bs, bs, bs = forward roll windows. ctl(up) = select first window
Jan 08 14:14:19 <DocScrutinizer51> but:
Jan 08 14:14:32 <satmd> :)
Jan 08 14:15:19 <toggles> lardman: no idea, came through "Nokia n900" on facebook
Jan 08 14:15:32 <DocScrutinizer51> ctl(down), bs(down), ctl(up): ctl= backwards roll windows. bs(up); keep task switcher
Jan 08 14:15:54 <alterego> trumee: yup
Jan 08 14:15:57 <lardman> toggles: fair enough, just all seems somewhat optimistic
Jan 08 14:16:26 <DocScrutinizer51> in takswitcher: qwer = window 1234 select
Jan 08 14:16:41 <MohammadAG> toggles, lol
Jan 08 14:16:51 <DocScrutinizer51> shift-qwer = window1234 close
Jan 08 14:16:56 <toggles> lardman: agreed, probably rubish
Jan 08 14:17:15 <MohammadAG> a PR can't include MeeGo :P
Jan 08 14:17:26 <MohammadAG> it's about 2GBs in size
Jan 08 14:17:28 <spiritd> MohammadAG doesnt work still getting http://basemod.bplaced.com/data2/IMG_4949.JPG
Jan 08 14:17:47 <lardman> MohammadAG: well that would be possible
Jan 08 14:17:59 <lardman> MohammadAG: though you'd need to flash it to the emmc
Jan 08 14:18:17 <lardman> I don't fancy that as an "OTA" download though :)
Jan 08 14:19:37 <MohammadAG> spiritd, that doesn't seem to be terminal actually
Jan 08 14:19:51 <MohammadAG> if you look closely, you'll notice the spinning icon
Jan 08 14:19:56 <MohammadAG> it's the screenshot
Jan 08 14:20:21 <spiritd> yes.. but it happens everytime i run xterm first... without previous exterm windows
Jan 08 14:20:43 <spiritd> and shorcut is osso-xterm
Jan 08 14:20:59 <spiritd> dunno where from is called that chroot :/
Jan 08 14:21:44 <MohammadAG> but terminal opens fine?
Jan 08 14:22:01 <MohammadAG> you could've mentioned that before :P
Jan 08 14:22:23 <spiritd> ye it opens fine
Jan 08 14:22:40 <MohammadAG> rm /home/user/.cache/launch/com.nokia.xterm.pvr
Jan 08 14:22:49 <MohammadAG> then close terminal
Jan 08 14:22:52 <MohammadAG> and reopen it
Jan 08 14:23:04 <DocScrutinizer> spiritd: I explained to you this is unrelated to osso-xterm. So why are you still trying to reset things for xterm that are unrelated?
Jan 08 14:23:26 <spiritd> MohammadAG nice... fixed
Jan 08 14:23:37 <spiritd> MohammadAG how did you know that? :D
Jan 08 14:24:02 <MohammadAG> spinning window indicator
Jan 08 14:24:10 <DocScrutinizer> omg, you are asking about sb and don't even mention it. MEH
Jan 08 14:24:26 <MohammadAG> no DocScrutinizer
Jan 08 14:24:33 <MohammadAG> it's the screenshot hildon loads
Jan 08 14:24:45 <MohammadAG> the PVR thing, to make stuff iPhone-y
Jan 08 14:24:46 <DocScrutinizer> WTF?
Jan 08 14:24:51 <satmd> lol?
Jan 08 14:25:54 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, you know, the thing that loads directly when pressing an icon
Jan 08 14:26:01 * DocScrutinizer swears to not try and help anybody for the next 24h
Jan 08 14:26:13 <MohammadAG> it seems to have taken a screenshot of easy debian for osso-xterm
Jan 08 14:26:38 <DocScrutinizer> I should have known when he posted that crappy photo of screen
Jan 08 14:26:55 <MohammadAG> yeah
Jan 08 14:27:06 <MohammadAG> the spinning indicator next to X terminal
Jan 08 14:27:15 <MohammadAG> osso-xterm never does it
Jan 08 14:27:26 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: yeah I completely got it now. Just never thought somebody could come here with such a crappy description of problem
Jan 08 14:27:37 <spiritd> thx
Jan 08 14:27:39 <spiritd> :D
Jan 08 14:28:09 <MohammadAG> lmao
Jan 08 14:28:29 <trumee> alterego: any idea what is the duration of nokia's warranty in UK?
Jan 08 14:28:59 <MohammadAG> 1 year
Jan 08 14:29:21 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: spiritd  never mentioned his termnal returns to normal after that initial fake screen snapshot that confused him. I assumed there's a real persisting problem
Jan 08 14:29:24 <DocScrutinizer> :-((
Jan 08 14:29:57 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, i know, i figured that out though :P
Jan 08 14:30:24 <DocScrutinizer> well, I'm done with maemo and noobs for today
Jan 08 14:30:26 * MohammadAG should be a nokia tester
Jan 08 14:31:01 <MohammadAG> though i cba to use bugzilla, so I shouldn't
Jan 08 14:31:02 <spiritd> :D
Jan 08 14:31:06 <MohammadAG> meh
Jan 08 14:31:36 <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG: not you, spiritd should be a nokia tester
Jan 08 14:31:41 <MohammadAG> coffee?
Jan 08 14:31:56 <DocScrutinizer> time for 12648430
Jan 08 14:32:08 <MohammadAG> is that T9? :P
Jan 08 14:33:22 <DocScrutinizer> printf "%x" 12648430
Jan 08 14:34:11 <MohammadAG> heh
Jan 08 14:34:37 <MohammadAG> printf "%x\n" 12648430
Jan 08 14:34:59 <DocScrutinizer> k
Jan 08 14:35:23 <MohammadAG> use \n :P
Jan 08 14:41:20 <DocScrutinizer> printf "\n\t\t\t\t\t\e[34;41m%x\e[m\n" 12648430
Jan 08 14:41:26 <DocScrutinizer> esp for you, MohammadAG
Jan 08 14:49:00 <DocScrutinizer> (missing \n) I'm spoiled by basic-esque semantics of shell echo, appending a nl unless you explicitly tell it not to do
Jan 08 14:50:15 <DocScrutinizer> what's been the friggin basic semantics? print "no nl please;"
Jan 08 14:50:26 <DocScrutinizer> something like that
Jan 08 14:50:53 <BCMM> semantics meaning "syntax" here, i guess?
Jan 08 14:51:16 <DocScrutinizer> syntax it about correct sequence of lexems
Jan 08 14:51:26 <DocScrutinizer> semantics is about what it actually does
Jan 08 14:52:23 <DocScrutinizer> so yeah, what's been the syntax for 'no nl' for the fsckdup semantics in basic?
Jan 08 14:53:20 <BCMM> completely and utterly implementation-specific, like anything BASIC?
Jan 08 14:53:45 <BCMM> wasn't there a version that had something similar to ms batch file syntax on that?
Jan 08 14:55:00 <DocScrutinizer> sure, there's not THE basic
Jan 08 14:55:22 <BCMM> THE basic?
Jan 08 14:55:26 <BCMM> which one is THE basic?
Jan 08 14:55:31 <kerio> c64!
Jan 08 14:55:44 <BCMM> oh god, for once i've started a flamewar by accident
Jan 08 14:56:04 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless most basic dialects had a semantic of including a nl/cr to each print command, unless you "escaped" it somehow
Jan 08 14:56:18 <BCMM> anyway, i think it involves using a ; in ways specifically designed to upset C programmers
Jan 08 14:57:56 <DocScrutinizer> BCMM: you realized the "there's not" before "THE basic" ?
Jan 08 14:58:21 <DocScrutinizer> s/not/no such thing like/ .
Jan 08 14:58:39 <BCMM> oh, sorry. i read "that's not"
Jan 08 14:58:53 <BCMM> "sure, but that's not THE basic"
Jan 08 15:01:09 <DocScrutinizer> first basic dialects I used had not even a renumber
Jan 08 15:02:00 <DocScrutinizer> and any line entered without a linenumber heading it were immediate commands
Jan 08 15:04:26 <DocScrutinizer> those were the times. Well those times are probably gone forever, unless I'll bring then back a little bit later... :-P
Jan 08 15:04:45 <DocScrutinizer> </quote FZ>
Jan 08 15:05:58 <trumee> Is fmtx-faker required with the latest fmtxd1.3 patch by jacekowski?
Jan 08 15:12:18 <BCMM> DocScrutinizer: you're porting blassic to the n900?
Jan 08 15:12:56 <BCMM> (heh, kinda want to use the most awkward possible interpreter just to annoy iphone users)
Jan 08 15:13:27 <pupnik> gates wrote the CBM PET basic :/
Jan 08 15:15:00 * trumee first programming language was Gw-basic
Jan 08 15:22:20 <trumee> seems fm-faker is not required at all. good.
Jan 08 15:34:21 <trumee> why there no src files in this package, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/f/fm-carkit/fm-carkit_0.4.tar.gz ?
Jan 08 15:42:10 <ShadowJK> sigh, benchmarking microsd cards with sheevaplug turns out to be somewhat random
Jan 08 15:42:24 * ShadowJK ponders upgrading kernel, maybe SD slot instability is fixed..
Jan 08 15:44:56 <pupnik> ShadowJK: how do you disable kernel caching
Jan 08 15:45:08 <pupnik> i think i had a thread on t.m.o for that
Jan 08 15:46:01 <pupnik> ahh sync; time sh -c "dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/testfile bs=1M count=100;sync"
Jan 08 15:46:58 <pupnik> ahh also need to change cpu governor to 'performance
Jan 08 15:48:30 <pupnik> echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
Jan 08 15:52:14 <ShadowJK> That kind of benchmark is useless and pointless
Jan 08 15:52:22 <ShadowJK> I'm not interested in sequential write speed
Jan 08 15:53:35 <ShadowJK> I want to know the speed under random 4k writes
Jan 08 15:54:21 <lcuk> ShadowJK, well make a simpler test function
Jan 08 15:54:33 <lcuk> that uses numerous small files
Jan 08 15:54:42 <ShadowJK> Which for a class 2 sandisk card is 18.5 kbyte/sec and class 4 kingston is showing 17.04 kbyte/sec :)
Jan 08 15:54:49 <ShadowJK> I already found a program for it, "Rebench"
Jan 08 15:54:55 <ShadowJK> though there appears to be two of them :)
Jan 08 15:55:04 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: ++ :-D
Jan 08 15:55:28 <ShadowJK> I'm bypassing the filesystem too, writing directly to the partition
Jan 08 15:55:37 <ShadowJK> (destroying anything that was on the cards in the first place9
Jan 08 15:55:39 <ShadowJK> )
Jan 08 15:55:47 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Jan 08 15:55:54 <DocScrutinizer> those are the decent tests
Jan 08 15:56:37 <Gyjf> how fast is the n900 wireless NIC btw?
Jan 08 15:56:51 <pupnik> ShadowJK: since those cards are being used to store media, a large sequential write is relevant to most ppl
Jan 08 15:56:54 <ShadowJK> 802.11g, so 54M?
Jan 08 15:57:10 <lcuk> Gyjf, in a vacuum or at ground level?
Jan 08 15:57:13 <DocScrutinizer> brutto
Jan 08 15:57:19 <ShadowJK> pupnik, yes well, even the slowest card is "fast enough" then, imo :)
Jan 08 15:57:42 <ShadowJK> I'm looking for a card that could host an operating system well
Jan 08 15:57:47 <pupnik> ah ok
Jan 08 15:57:50 <Gyjf> well, i dont have any vaccum at hand, so ground level will do
Jan 08 15:57:55 <ShadowJK> or swap
Jan 08 15:58:12 <pupnik> got a link to 'rebench' ShadowJK ?
Jan 08 15:58:19 <lcuk> Gyjf, i dont actually know, merely that I have never wondered "why isn't this faster"
Jan 08 15:58:41 <pupnik> http://code.google.com/p/rebench/ ?
Jan 08 15:58:45 <ShadowJK> http://www.rethinkdb.com/blog/2009/10/rebench-cutting-through-the-myths-of-io-performance
Jan 08 15:58:54 <ShadowJK> http://www.rethinkdb.com/blog/2009/10/rebench-cutting-through-the-myths-of-io-performance/
Jan 08 15:59:42 <ShadowJK> wow, the FTL in this Kingston card is horrible
Jan 08 16:00:48 <Gyjf> hehe thats funny cause its FTL :P
Jan 08 16:01:08 <pupnik> thank you ShadowJK that is GREAT
Jan 08 16:01:23 <ShadowJK> Check out the benchmark results in that article too
Jan 08 16:02:23 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: where's the .deb for maemo? ;-D
Jan 08 16:02:50 <lcuk> or rather: why isn't it available from maemo.org
Jan 08 16:03:21 <ShadowJK> I'm not running it on maemo
Jan 08 16:03:44 <lcuk> what then?
Jan 08 16:04:02 <ShadowJK> First thing I had with a free SD slot, my sheevaplug
Jan 08 16:04:16 <DocScrutinizer> eeh
Jan 08 16:04:42 <ShadowJK> could have run it on my desktop too but I didn't find my card reader :(
Jan 08 16:04:55 <lcuk> ShadowJK, I thought that the DUT also had impact on performance
Jan 08 16:05:00 <DocScrutinizer> there's a constant rate of complaints about maemo semi-freezing when copying to eMMC
Jan 08 16:05:18 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, thats because you repeat the test everyday:P
Jan 08 16:05:23 <ShadowJK> That's more of a kernel tuning issue..
Jan 08 16:05:30 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: not really
Jan 08 16:05:34 <ShadowJK> DUT?
Jan 08 16:05:43 <lcuk> device under test
Jan 08 16:05:56 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=914524&postcount=622
Jan 08 16:06:33 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: I know. But to tune kernel properly you need decent figures of IO performance
Jan 08 16:06:33 <ShadowJK> From what i've seen, writes are fast as long as the file being copied/moved is smaller than easily available ram
Jan 08 16:06:49 <lcuk> my eyes bleed whenever I see single post links from tmo
Jan 08 16:07:03 <lcuk> centred text from forum is awful to read
Jan 08 16:07:25 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, mine too, was a matter of seconds to ponder if I provide a better link or go with this one
Jan 08 16:07:39 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=914524#post914524
Jan 08 16:07:41 <lcuk> is better
Jan 08 16:07:43 <ShadowJK> Well, this kingston card is quite phenomenal, it's approximately as slow handling sequential writes as random writes
Jan 08 16:07:46 <pupnik> yes i also noticed device becoming unusable copying large > 400 MB files
Jan 08 16:08:14 <pupnik> want to start a new t.m.o thread for benchmarking microSD?
Jan 08 16:08:25 <DocScrutinizer> usually I do this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=914524#post914524
Jan 08 16:09:20 <DocScrutinizer> heh, lcuk - you were faster than me
Jan 08 16:09:51 <pupnik> you benchmark by copying photos?
Jan 08 16:15:08 <pupnik> rebench git errors out in make here
Jan 08 16:15:37 <pupnik> need gsl..
Jan 08 16:15:39 <ShadowJK> You need a c++ compiler and libgsl installed
Jan 08 16:17:01 <pupnik> what's libaio.h: No such file or directory supplied by?>
Jan 08 16:17:16 <pupnik> ah nm
Jan 08 16:17:22 <ShadowJK> libaio-dev :)
Jan 08 16:18:05 <pupnik> well maybe a statically linked version would be best for maemo
Jan 08 16:22:06 <pupnik> Error opening device: Not a directory
Jan 08 16:22:15 <pupnik> Error opening device: Is a directory
Jan 08 16:22:18 <pupnik> lol
Jan 08 16:23:08 <ShadowJK> you probably want to create a big file with dd to do tests on
Jan 08 16:23:19 <ShadowJK> unless you want ot do destructive testing like I'm doing
Jan 08 16:23:57 <pupnik> i have a microsd card which can be overwritten
Jan 08 16:24:05 <pupnik> shows as /dev/sdb
Jan 08 16:24:18 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: any good ointer to a howto-link-statically?
Jan 08 16:24:25 <DocScrutinizer> pointer even
Jan 08 16:25:22 <DocScrutinizer> I gather it shouldn't be difficult, nevertheless I never managed to wrap my head around it
Jan 08 16:25:22 <pupnik> not offhand
Jan 08 16:26:20 <pupnik> http://people.freedesktop.org/~dbn/pkg-config-guide.html   some info for pkg-config
Jan 08 16:26:46 <DocScrutinizer> and heaven knows I considered how nice a statically linked executable wuld be, quite some times
Jan 08 16:27:04 <pupnik> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/programming-9/static-link-sdl-having-issues-813937/
Jan 08 16:27:14 <pupnik> you can run into dependency hell
Jan 08 16:27:29 <DocScrutinizer> even compared to having .so locally and adapting ld_path
Jan 08 16:30:18 <pupnik> ShadowJK: are you invoking rebench with /dev/sdb (for e.g.) as the target?
Jan 08 16:30:48 <ShadowJK> /dev/mmcblk0p1 actually
Jan 08 16:31:28 <pupnik> oh partition as a target
Jan 08 16:34:34 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: LOL, yeah dlopen() for sure isn't exactly compatible with static linking
Jan 08 16:34:49 <DocScrutinizer> pupnik: thanks for the link :-)
Jan 08 16:37:06 <pupnik> ShadowJK: is the device mounted?
Jan 08 16:37:16 <ShadowJK> no
Jan 08 16:37:51 <pupnik> mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0xb78d1000
Jan 08 16:37:55 <pupnik> _llseek(3, 0, 0xbfd36c08, SEEK_CUR)     = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek)
Jan 08 16:37:57 <pupnik> grr
Jan 08 16:38:23 <ShadowJK> heh
Jan 08 16:40:31 <pupnik> apparently my kernel thinks a flash device is not positionable
Jan 08 16:42:59 <pupnik> mmm bad partition table
Jan 08 16:44:52 <pupnik> nope. still munged
Jan 08 16:51:35 <ShadowJK> heh, okay, so I had stride size set to 512 bytes when I ran sequential write test on sandisk. Clas 2 card, 2M /sec write speed it gave. On the kingston class 4 card this gave also 2M, but it started as slow as random writes
Jan 08 16:51:42 <ShadowJK> with stride size = block size, the kingston flies...
Jan 08 16:52:13 <ShadowJK> So the sandisk was clever enough, that when I wrote several times to the same erase block, it didn't actually modify flash contents until I moved on..
Jan 08 16:52:25 <ShadowJK> while the kingston is blindly writing to the flash all the time
Jan 08 16:52:35 <ShadowJK> Atleast that's how I interpret the results :P
Jan 08 17:02:56 <pupnik> interesting
Jan 08 17:03:52 <DocScrutinizer> sounds consistent
Jan 08 17:04:05 <ShadowJK> This is a gigantic spreadsheet already and I've only partially tested 2 cards
Jan 08 17:04:06 <ShadowJK> :/
Jan 08 17:04:37 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, yeah. What do you expect?
Jan 08 17:06:22 <ShadowJK> I still have 3 microSD cards, 2 miniSD cards, 2 SD cards (one is broken and I don't remember which), and those are just the unused ones..
Jan 08 17:13:26 <ShadowJK> So let's see.. This kingston has a write throughput of 10 Megabytes per second for purely sequential 128 kbyte chunks (the chunks being after eachother). When two threads are doing that at the same time, throughput drops by a factor of 10 to about 1 Megabyte/s :)
Jan 08 17:13:51 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jan 08 17:14:06 <ShadowJK> I need to rerun with this on the sandisk 8g
Jan 08 17:14:21 <pupnik> well this finally works
Jan 08 17:14:24 <pupnik> # rebench --paged  -t mmap -o read -w seq /media/disk-2/testdir/testfile
Jan 08 17:14:26 <DocScrutinizer> close enough to random writes
Jan 08 17:15:02 <ShadowJK> does it work without paged?
Jan 08 17:15:35 <ShadowJK> because with --paged RAM will be used to cache writes and reads
Jan 08 17:15:59 <pupnik> Can't use mmap with direct IO (use --paged): Invalid argument
Jan 08 17:16:19 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that fits well into the figure of 40ms for a flashpage erase
Jan 08 17:17:00 <ShadowJK> does -t stateless work? THat's what Im using
Jan 08 17:17:30 <pupnik> nope: Error opening device: Not a directory
Jan 08 17:18:13 <pupnik> oh well
Jan 08 17:18:55 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: so you basically could say flash has a cylinder size of 128..256kB, and a seek time of ~40ms for writes
Jan 08 17:18:57 <pupnik> paio also broke
Jan 08 17:19:30 <ShadowJK> yeah, except the sandisk card is being cleverer than this
Jan 08 17:19:53 <ShadowJK> It's almost like it has some ram cache in there :)
Jan 08 17:20:08 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: sandisk doesn't park the heads between consecutive writes ;-D
Jan 08 17:20:20 <ShadowJK> I guess shitstorm happens if it loses power in the middle
Jan 08 17:20:42 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jan 08 17:20:43 <ShadowJK> maybe this explains why SmartQ's internal sandisk memories randomly died on unclean shutdown
Jan 08 17:21:28 <DocScrutinizer> SD cards definitely are not meant to shutdown hard
Jan 08 17:22:17 <DocScrutinizer> actually flash is worse in that respect than classic HDD
Jan 08 17:22:41 <DocScrutinizer> muuuch worse
Jan 08 17:24:28 <chx> that's interesting
Jan 08 17:24:32 <chx> why?
Jan 08 17:25:06 <DocScrutinizer> the sequence >read out to buffer, modify buffer, erase flashpage, write buffer back to flashpage<< for arbitrary writes clearly shows there's a window for maximum damage much worse than all you might see on a proper built HDD. And that's the best case sequence wrt hard shutdown
Jan 08 17:25:51 <ShadowJK> 256K chunk(s) will be in an "undefined" state after hard shutdown
Jan 08 17:26:13 <DocScrutinizer> yep, also management data might get destroyed
Jan 08 17:26:25 <DocScrutinizer> questionable if you ever recover from that
Jan 08 17:26:36 <ShadowJK> These kingston cards are probably fake, it says "Japan" on them
Jan 08 17:27:02 <lardman|home> anyone know if the N900 GPS works with no SIM?
Jan 08 17:27:26 <luke-jr> lardman|home: not really, but in theory
Jan 08 17:27:32 <DocScrutinizer> lardman|home: sometimes it does, though not as good as with SIM
Jan 08 17:27:38 <luke-jr> maybe with good vision of the sky for a couple of hours
Jan 08 17:28:07 <DocScrutinizer> and with location test running so the GPS isn't shut down after 60s without a fix
Jan 08 17:28:09 <lardman|home> Well I'm looking to intercept some supl data, so I guess SIM will be need to get cell id
Jan 08 17:28:32 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Jan 08 17:28:52 <lardman|home> is there a cellid database accessible somewhere?
Jan 08 17:29:00 <ShadowJK> no :)
Jan 08 17:29:06 <MrBawb> there are some partial ones
Jan 08 17:29:09 <ShadowJK> Operators consider it proprietary information
Jan 08 17:29:10 <DocScrutinizer> for some areas there is
Jan 08 17:29:19 <MrBawb> user-submitted info
Jan 08 17:29:19 <lardman|home> UK?
Jan 08 17:29:28 <lardman|home> ShadowJK: yeah I know
Jan 08 17:29:37 <DocScrutinizer> for UK there's allegedly even an official one
Jan 08 17:29:43 <lardman|home> ok, that's good
Jan 08 17:29:59 <ShadowJK> Google Maps on j2me and symbian if you had a GPS unit used to report back to google CellID,GPS-coord so they could build a db :)
Jan 08 17:30:11 <DocScrutinizer> as in UK carriers have to provide info about locations of their BTS
Jan 08 17:31:14 <DocScrutinizer> google for openbmap
Jan 08 17:31:18 <lardman|home> I'll explain what I'm looking at, namely injecting LTO data into the SUPL stream to avoid needing to connect to the SUPL server
Jan 08 17:31:28 <lardman|home> DocScrutinizer: will do
Jan 08 17:32:09 <MrBawb> lardman|home: location-proxy is the process that contacts the supl server, I think
Jan 08 17:32:31 <MrBawb> it's at least one of the processes (if there's more than one)
Jan 08 17:32:46 <lardman|home> yep, I was thinking that a supl-proxy would be nice and easy, no need to understand the way the location framework talks to the chipset
Jan 08 17:33:19 <SpeedEvil> The UKs official one blows goats.
Jan 08 17:33:30 <SpeedEvil> It's not suitable for programmatic use
Jan 08 17:33:36 <DocScrutinizer> lardman|home: in Germany (maybe elsewhere as well) O2 is sending position of BTS in CB-channel 221, as gauss-wegener coords
Jan 08 17:33:38 <lardman|home> well wasting time like that could explain the poor quality ;)
Jan 08 17:35:12 <lardman|home> so anyone have any reasons why it might not work?
Jan 08 17:35:21 <lardman|home> i.e. shoot it down now
Jan 08 17:35:58 <SpeedEvil> lardman: what - just woke up
Jan 08 17:36:13 <lardman|home> not sure how much data would need to be cached from NASA's LTO, or alternatively the number crunching required to predict
Jan 08 17:36:21 <lardman|home> hey SpeedEvil
Jan 08 17:36:36 <SpeedEvil> hy
Jan 08 17:36:48 <lardman|home> am thinking about inserting a supl proxy and trying to inject LTO generated data to avoid needing to bring up a net connection
Jan 08 17:37:00 <SpeedEvil> ah
Jan 08 17:37:11 <SpeedEvil> LTO?
Jan 08 17:37:17 <lardman|home> long term orbit
Jan 08 17:37:50 <SpeedEvil> That does not of itself generate position, it just delays the decay of the sat coords
Jan 08 17:37:51 <lardman|home> i.e. ephemeris data predicted a few days out, or some such
Jan 08 17:37:57 <lardman|home> yes indeed
Jan 08 17:38:17 <lardman|home> I'd like to get the GPS up faster without needing live assistance data
Jan 08 17:38:34 <lardman|home> as something to do of a Saturday afternoon ;)
Jan 08 17:38:44 <DocScrutinizer> alas N900 seems isn't considered worthy by Nokia to learn support CBSMS
Jan 08 17:38:56 <DocScrutinizer> :-((
Jan 08 17:39:08 <SpeedEvil> Turning the GPS on, when on power, and maybe even intermittently when not may be an idea
Jan 08 17:39:40 <DocScrutinizer> ...so maybe voting for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8347 helps
Jan 08 17:39:43 <povbot> Bug 8347: Cell Broadcast Feature not available
Jan 08 17:40:40 <lardman|home> DocScrutinizer: nothing will help for Maemo5 now I don;t think
Jan 08 17:40:44 <SpeedEvil> Doibt it.
Jan 08 17:40:49 <SpeedEvil> IT's not maemo5
Jan 08 17:40:51 <SpeedEvil> it's hw
Jan 08 17:40:55 <lardman|home> SpeedEvil: yes, to refresh the ephemeris data before they expire
Jan 08 17:41:20 <SpeedEvil> It's depressing there isn't a way to talk in depth to the GPS
Jan 08 17:41:45 <lardman|home> well there's that page on the wiki about communicating with it
Jan 08 17:41:56 <MohammadAG> hmm, chemistry is mindfuck sometimes
Jan 08 17:41:59 <lardman|home> but that's reverse engineering of the protocol
Jan 08 17:42:44 <chem|st> MohammadAG: sometimes?
Jan 08 17:42:54 <SpeedEvil> lardman: naah - I mean in depth.
Jan 08 17:43:22 <MohammadAG> chem|st, doing my ASs, Unit 3B is hard
Jan 08 17:43:38 <SpeedEvil> lardman: Someone got the openmoko freerunner to do ~5cm accuracy, with another nearby freerunner
Jan 08 17:43:46 <lardman|home> SpeedEvil: yeah, but no real way we're going to be able to do that
Jan 08 17:43:52 <DocScrutinizer> I can understand N900 not supporting SAT/STK, but honestly these missing standard features all the time, like SSC (which got enabled with *#-ena and a easteregg after massive complaints), and CBSMS, and whatnot else - that's an insult and impudence
Jan 08 17:44:00 <lardman|home> SpeedEvil: that's pretty good! :)
Jan 08 17:44:00 <chem|st> MohammadAG: have no idea what you are talking about...
Jan 08 17:44:17 <MohammadAG> GCEs chem|st
Jan 08 17:44:43 <lardman|home> MohammadAG: what's up with your chemistry then?
Jan 08 17:45:18 <chem|st> MohammadAG: that is far off of what I would call mindfucking
Jan 08 17:45:26 <lardman|home> DocScrutinizer: what are those acronyms?
Jan 08 17:45:59 <DocScrutinizer> SIM App Toolkit, Cell Broadcast SMS
Jan 08 17:46:14 <DocScrutinizer> Supplementary Service Codes
Jan 08 17:46:52 <DocScrutinizer> while the last one isn't correct, it's the plain service codes that weren't implemented/enabled
Jan 08 17:46:59 <lardman|home> ok, thanks
Jan 08 17:47:00 <DocScrutinizer> not the supplementary ones
Jan 08 17:47:52 <lcuk> any idea how I detect the maemo version,  diablo/fremantle?
Jan 08 17:48:18 <lardman|home> maemo-version
Jan 08 17:48:21 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Jan 08 17:48:37 <chem|st> lcuk: guess you mean the other way
Jan 08 17:48:55 <DocScrutinizer> OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_NAME='Maemo 5'
Jan 08 17:49:12 <lcuk> nm have found another way already in code, ta
Jan 08 17:49:14 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: >>set
Jan 08 17:49:15 <lcuk> (reading /proc/component_version)
Jan 08 17:49:40 <lcuk> gets me an RX-34  RX-44 RX-48 etc
Jan 08 17:49:57 <DocScrutinizer> OSSO_PRODUCT_HARDWARE=RX-51
Jan 08 17:50:08 <DocScrutinizer> set!!
Jan 08 17:50:14 <DocScrutinizer> set|less even
Jan 08 17:50:40 <DocScrutinizer> or echo $OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_NAME
Jan 08 17:52:35 <DocScrutinizer> or
Jan 08 17:52:46 <DocScrutinizer> echo $OSSO_VERSION#
Jan 08 17:52:50 <DocScrutinizer> echo $OSSO_VERSION
Jan 08 17:53:26 <DocScrutinizer> if you want to have it in detail
Jan 08 17:53:56 <DocScrutinizer> checked it on N810-diable and N900-maemo5
Jan 08 17:54:01 <DocScrutinizer> looks good
Jan 08 17:55:44 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: I guess those envs are there for that precise purpose
Jan 08 18:03:41 <DocScrutinizer> ~botsnack
Jan 08 18:03:41 <infobot> DocScrutinizer: aw, gee
Jan 08 18:03:46 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, thanks \o
Jan 08 18:03:55 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: yw
Jan 08 18:04:08 <lcuk> now I just have to make sure liqcalendar runs on it ;)
Jan 08 18:04:21 <lcuk> and without a diablo scratchbox
Jan 08 18:04:22 <DocScrutinizer> ??
Jan 08 18:04:30 <lcuk> I am forced to have to do it the old fashioned way ;)
Jan 08 18:04:45 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, I am getting bug reports from users on diablo
Jan 08 18:04:52 <DocScrutinizer> ooh
Jan 08 18:04:53 <lcuk> and to diagnose/fix I need to build/test
Jan 08 18:05:19 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, well liqbase apps were initially designed to run well on n8x0 :)
Jan 08 18:05:38 <DocScrutinizer> so you're going to have some if (arch() == "diablo") ?
Jan 08 18:06:54 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, I already have some of that
Jan 08 18:07:01 <lcuk> but theres a single bug crept in
Jan 08 18:07:07 <lcuk> which I didnt check against
Jan 08 18:07:16 <lcuk> its relating to the x11 overlay handling
Jan 08 18:07:34 <lcuk> actual code code still works, its initialisation thats screwed
Jan 08 18:07:47 <MohammadAG> hmm
Jan 08 18:07:58 <DocScrutinizer> hmm?
Jan 08 18:08:11 <MohammadAG> why does telepathy's dbus signal send status instead of name when someone goes online/offline
Jan 08 18:08:27 <DocScrutinizer> err?
Jan 08 18:08:59 <DocScrutinizer> maybe because telepathy is a bit screwed?
Jan 08 18:09:37 <DocScrutinizer> well, probably it's my mind that gets screwed when I try to understand how telepathy works
Jan 08 18:09:39 <MohammadAG> it's nice actually
Jan 08 18:10:07 <MohammadAG> that's called mindfuck :P
Jan 08 18:11:10 <MohammadAG> i want an online/offline presence indicator
Jan 08 18:11:43 <DocScrutinizer> per contact*account?
Jan 08 18:12:49 <MohammadAG> yes
Jan 08 18:13:23 <DocScrutinizer> well, anyway ask me why hal is sending same useless dbus signal for arbitrary switch state changes
Jan 08 18:14:18 <DocScrutinizer> without any proper detail about state of switch, or even which particular switch
Jan 08 18:15:19 <DocScrutinizer> nah, don't ask me. I don't want to enter that mood
Jan 08 18:15:22 <lardman|home> in both cases the signal designer seems to have assumed that the app will then query specifics
Jan 08 18:15:45 <lardman|home> rather than maintaining its own internal state and updating that when it receives a DBus signal
Jan 08 18:15:48 <DocScrutinizer> which is BS
Jan 08 18:16:01 <lcuk> apt-get install build-essential
Jan 08 18:16:08 * lcuk has missed that line :)
Jan 08 18:16:08 <lardman|home> well yeah, it would be almost cost free to add extra info to the messages
Jan 08 18:16:22 <DocScrutinizer> yes
Jan 08 18:17:40 <DocScrutinizer> and it would be muuuch less cost than every app polling the details off /sys et al each time
Jan 08 18:17:43 <lardman|home> alterego: you about?
Jan 08 18:18:19 <lardman|home> DocScrutinizer: sure
Jan 08 18:19:13 <lardman|home> going back a bit, here's the supl stuff: http://www.tajuma.com/supl/index.html
Jan 08 18:20:46 <lcuk> apt-get install libliqbase-dev
Jan 08 18:20:55 <lcuk> and then I can build liq apps :)
Jan 08 18:20:59 <lcuk> on the n810 :D
Jan 08 18:28:51 <lcuk> hrm, problem (code built ok) which package gives /usr/bin/install   (needed for make install)
Jan 08 18:48:23 <ShadowJK> Best performing card so far: Kingston 512MB Mini-SD from 2006
Jan 08 18:48:44 <ShadowJK> (for random write perf)
Jan 08 18:50:15 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: diablo has no dump-area for kernel OOPS and panics, like maemo5's mtd2 aka "log" ?
Jan 08 18:50:28 <lcuk> i dont know?
Jan 08 18:50:36 <pupnik_> ShadowJK: any good microsd for that?
Jan 08 18:50:40 <pupnik_> small writes
Jan 08 18:51:52 <DocScrutinizer> anybody with diablo knowhow give me a pointer/hint how to figure what makes my N810 reboot randomly?
Jan 08 18:52:07 <lcuk> n80 doesnt reboot randomly
Jan 08 18:52:12 <lcuk> 810
Jan 08 18:52:23 <lcuk> you are imagining things
Jan 08 18:52:54 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, so it's a scheduled reboot then, based on a fractal timeschedule
Jan 08 18:53:25 <lcuk> sounds reasonable
Jan 08 18:53:34 <ShadowJK> /proc/bootreason, /var/lib/dsme/stats
Jan 08 18:53:49 <DocScrutinizer> meh, I wonder why your comments are so extemely helpful usually
Jan 08 18:54:00 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: I checked both
Jan 08 18:54:28 <DocScrutinizer> no luck
Jan 08 18:54:47 <ShadowJK> timestamp on 32wd_to and sw_rst?
Jan 08 18:57:02 <ShadowJK> lol, this .5G kingston minisd sucks otherwise, I'm not getting more than 500 kbyte/s out of it :)
Jan 08 18:57:28 <ShadowJK> it even seems to be running slower with sequential writes than with random writes..
Jan 08 18:57:40 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: what timestamp?
Jan 08 18:59:16 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia-N810-23-14:~# cat /var/lib/dsme/stats/32wd_to
Jan 08 18:59:18 <DocScrutinizer> 202
Jan 08 18:59:26 <DocScrutinizer> a bit high maybe
Jan 08 19:02:00 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, do you have a diablo scratchbox there?
Jan 08 19:02:05 <Tsuyo> Is it possible to extend the ram of the N900? I knew a way to do that in Windows via USB-Sticks
Jan 08 19:02:11 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Jan 08 19:02:23 <ShadowJK> And you can't extend ram in windows via usb sticks, it's a scam
Jan 08 19:02:35 <lcuk> shame hmm
Jan 08 19:02:44 <Tsuyo> I think that was some kind of virtual ram
Jan 08 19:02:52 <Tsuyo> Read it years ago, so i can't remember much
Jan 08 19:03:28 <DocScrutinizer> Tsuyo: linux has that type of virtual ram since ~50years
Jan 08 19:03:34 <DocScrutinizer> it's called swap
Jan 08 19:03:37 <ShadowJK> There's 768M of it
Jan 08 19:03:40 <ShadowJK> on N900
Jan 08 19:03:41 <lcuk> sigh
Jan 08 19:04:04 <lcuk> windows uses usb sticks as a faster prelaunch thingy or some uber cache or something
Jan 08 19:04:22 <lolloo> readyboost
Jan 08 19:04:28 <lcuk> so its not quite a memory extension, but it does do things faster than just putting swap onto hard drive
Jan 08 19:04:29 <DocScrutinizer> useless cruft
Jan 08 19:04:38 <DocScrutinizer> even slower than usual HDD
Jan 08 19:04:42 <lcuk> yeah lolloo thanks
Jan 08 19:05:15 <Tsuyo> I don't even think about to extend my ram, just read it a few minutes ago and wanted to know, if it's legit ;)
Jan 08 19:05:30 <ieatlint> it's actually valid... it works for anything that requires small amounts of throughput, but benefits from low latency... like a bunch of tiny files
Jan 08 19:05:32 <lolloo> HDD is around 150mbit
Jan 08 19:06:12 <lcuk> lolloo, depends on the HD and interface in use
Jan 08 19:06:24 <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: c't tested it and found boot times are same or longer than without
Jan 08 19:06:37 <ieatlint> c't?
Jan 08 19:06:44 <DocScrutinizer> ct.de
Jan 08 19:06:51 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, possibly with latest kit and high caches on the drives now
Jan 08 19:07:07 <lolloo> SSDs are avbove 200mbit
Jan 08 19:07:11 <lcuk> but seems reasonable for when its been used in slightly older kit
Jan 08 19:07:19 <lcuk> lolloo, this isnt ssds
Jan 08 19:07:31 <lcuk> since an ssd is indistinguishable from hard drive
Jan 08 19:07:47 <lcuk> readyboost is for actual usb flash drives afaik
Jan 08 19:07:54 <lolloo> I bought gskills pheonix pro ssd
Jan 08 19:08:08 <lolloo> it reads peak 250mb
Jan 08 19:08:42 <lolloo> sata 2 ofcourse
Jan 08 19:09:10 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, SSD is about fopen() / s though
Jan 08 19:09:32 <DocScrutinizer> and there are *huge* differences
Jan 08 19:09:57 <ieatlint> well, i've little experience with current versions of windows, and never used readyboost, so i'll readily admit that my perceptions of it actually being remotely useful are way off
Jan 08 19:10:24 <DocScrutinizer> same here
Jan 08 19:10:50 <DocScrutinizer> I only recall it has been tested worthless in c't quite some time ago
Jan 08 19:13:46 <ShadowJK> My 5400 RPM harddrives do 100 Megabytes/sec, which is something like a gigabit/sec...
Jan 08 19:15:03 <ShadowJK> sequential is a bit of a meaningless number though, unless you spend your days copying data from one harddrive to another
Jan 08 19:15:18 <lolloo> or you have an OS on it
Jan 08 19:15:32 <ShadowJK> No
Jan 08 19:15:42 <ShadowJK> For that you want IOPS
Jan 08 19:15:56 <ds3> with a modern drive, how do you do sequential? is there a method of access that lets you line up with the physical geometry?
Jan 08 19:16:00 <ieatlint> i'm actually about to install and SSD in my laptop, heh
Jan 08 19:16:07 <haltdef> want vertex 3 pro :>
Jan 08 19:16:37 <lolloo> go for crucial if you have sata 3
Jan 08 19:16:44 <ieatlint> ds3: assuming hdd, i think it's mostly assumed that sectors will be roughly consecutive most of the time
Jan 08 19:16:46 <ShadowJK> ds3, it's still linear
Jan 08 19:16:49 <lolloo> runs above 300mb
Jan 08 19:16:59 <ieatlint> excepting bad sector stuff and plate changes
Jan 08 19:17:11 <ShadowJK> look at the random iops instead, it's a much more useful number on how the drive performs with an OS on it
Jan 08 19:17:23 <lolloo> yeah your right.
Jan 08 19:17:40 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK:
Jan 08 19:17:45 <DocScrutinizer> Nokia-N810-23-14:~# cat /proc/bootreason
Jan 08 19:17:46 <DocScrutinizer> 32wd_to
Jan 08 19:18:05 <ds3> but with sector remapping, even that isn't true all of the time nor is it true between runs
Jan 08 19:18:14 <DocScrutinizer> however I got nfc how to figure what is causing the wd to trigger
Jan 08 19:18:22 <ShadowJK> The blind quest for sequential throughput is what gave us the crappy SSDs that benchmarked 300 megabyte/s, yet typing a single line of chat into an Instant Messenger made the entire machine lock up for half a second.
Jan 08 19:18:52 <ds3> ShadowJK: early stock eeePC drives? :D
Jan 08 19:19:01 <lolloo> heh
Jan 08 19:19:03 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: I even did things like running top in a remote shell session
Jan 08 19:19:13 <ShadowJK> ds3, no those were actually SD cards weren't they?
Jan 08 19:19:24 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, nfi really :)
Jan 08 19:19:41 <ieatlint> nah, early eeepcs were ssd
Jan 08 19:19:55 <ShadowJK> oh I thought they were emmc or sd :)
Jan 08 19:19:56 <ieatlint> but the cheap ones... equiv to a flash drive, but with a minipci interface
Jan 08 19:20:10 <ShadowJK> everything jmicron anyway
Jan 08 19:20:11 <ds3> ShadowJK: no, miniPCIe cards
Jan 08 19:20:22 <ShadowJK> before Indilinx came along
Jan 08 19:20:36 <ieatlint> happily the drive going into my laptop is not one of those fun flawed ones, but an intel x25-m
Jan 08 19:21:07 <ShadowJK> I'm not sure anyone has beaten x25-m yet :)
Jan 08 19:21:12 <ShadowJK> except maybe with slc
Jan 08 19:21:22 <ieatlint> i think it has.. these are relatively cheap now
Jan 08 19:21:31 <ieatlint> this drive sells for $180 now
Jan 08 19:21:56 <ieatlint> 80gb
Jan 08 19:22:13 <haltdef> sf-1200 based drives are the best for now I believe
Jan 08 19:22:29 <lolloo> OCZ use them.
Jan 08 19:22:30 <ieatlint> but my browser will move faster, and i won't be as freaked about the risk of scratching a platter
Jan 08 19:23:10 <haltdef> mmhmm, delightful 120GB vertex 2e on my desktop, indilinx based solid 2 on laptop
Jan 08 19:23:39 <lolloo> nice
Jan 08 19:24:08 <haltdef> I know sata 6gbps drives were just around the corner but sod it :P
Jan 08 19:24:13 <haltdef> knew
Jan 08 19:24:54 <lolloo> i updated my gskills ssd firmware last month
Jan 08 19:25:09 <lolloo> now supports trimming.
Jan 08 19:26:31 <ShadowJK> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4020/34081.png ah I guess intel was beatne long time ago
Jan 08 19:26:32 <Tsuyo> I'm new into app development. If i enter "ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 up" into my terminal, i loose my connection to the internet, has someone encountered that problem too?
Jan 08 19:28:14 <lardman|home> cu later chaps, /me heads to grab some food
Jan 08 19:28:21 <ieatlint> Tsuyo: you fucked up your routes
Jan 08 19:28:29 <DocScrutinizer> dn't you think this description is missing a few bits?
Jan 08 19:28:35 <MohammadAG> isn't zerojay part of the maemo community?
Jan 08 19:28:57 <Tsuyo> ieatlint: Pardon?
Jan 08 19:29:16 <DocScrutinizer> Tsuyo: which OS, which terminal, etc pp
Jan 08 19:29:21 <ShadowJK> so, without really knowing what you're trying to do or what the guide you're following is trying to do, I'd imagine that if you executed that on a computer or a phone, which was connected to the internet through another interface such as eth0 or wlan0, through 192.168.0.0/16 or a 192.168.42.2/24 network, that new network you create would overlap the old one and take precedence, and the device in question would be trying to contact the default gateway over
Jan 08 19:29:25 <Tsuyo> I'm using Archlinux
Jan 08 19:29:27 <ShadowJK>  the wrong interface
Jan 08 19:29:33 <Tsuyo> standart xfce4 terminal
Jan 08 19:29:37 <Tsuyo> -t +d
Jan 08 19:29:50 <Tsuyo> My connection is going throgh cable
Jan 08 19:29:59 <Tsuyo> through*. Gah.
Jan 08 19:30:37 <ieatlint> so i don't have a one line answer, but the basic situation is that your default route is being changed when you run that command
Jan 08 19:30:45 <DocScrutinizer> Tsuyo: we have no f'ing clue about your setup. There are terminals all over the place. And we don't even know if your question is maemo5 related
Jan 08 19:31:02 <ieatlint> which shouldn't happen normally, but may be related to something like networkmanager getting pissy
Jan 08 19:31:25 <Tsuyo> Ah, well, sorry. I wanted to develop small qt apps for my N900. i fellowed this tutorial: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-2.1-snapshot/creator-developing-maemo.html
Jan 08 19:32:00 <Tsuyo> It's working well, except, that i don't have an internet connection while connected to my device
Jan 08 19:32:42 <DocScrutinizer> you connect your desktop PC to N900 via USB, and that moment the PC is losing internet connectivity?
Jan 08 19:32:43 <ds3> >
Jan 08 19:33:10 <Tsuyo> after i enter "ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14 up" to connect to my device, yes.
Jan 08 19:33:25 <ieatlint> Tsuyo: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Configuring_Network#For_Static_IP
Jan 08 19:33:38 <luke-jr> Tsuyo: is your real LAN 192.168.2.* ?
Jan 08 19:33:58 <ieatlint> you want to add an interface entry there for usb0... don't enter a gateway or nameservers for it (leave your normal eth0 or similar unchanged)
Jan 08 19:34:01 <Tsuyo> yep, 192.168.2.101
Jan 08 19:34:06 <luke-jr> Tsuyo: that's why
Jan 08 19:34:07 <ieatlint> oh, haha
Jan 08 19:34:17 <DocScrutinizer> one possible explanation: your PC detects N900 as a network access, and tries to cnfigure your system to route data to N900 rather than your former internet
Jan 08 19:34:39 <luke-jr> Tsuyo: if you want to make USB + Ethernet a single network, you need a bridge
Jan 08 19:34:44 <luke-jr> which Linux doesn't make easy
Jan 08 19:34:52 <Tsuyo> : /
Jan 08 19:34:57 <luke-jr> what OS?
Jan 08 19:35:01 <ieatlint> yeah, simple solution is change your network's ip address range
Jan 08 19:35:02 <Tsuyo> Arch
Jan 08 19:35:10 <ieatlint> slightly less simple solution is change the phone's ip address
Jan 08 19:35:24 <Tsuyo> Aye, give me a second. I load up MAD
Jan 08 19:35:39 <luke-jr> Tsuyo: do you care if your N900 can connect through it?
Jan 08 19:35:47 <ieatlint> i would really not try and do a bridge... that's a lot of extra shit that is generally unnecessary
Jan 08 19:36:04 <Tsuyo> luke-jr: no.
Jan 08 19:36:23 <luke-jr> Tsuyo: then just use another range for N900
Jan 08 19:36:30 <luke-jr> ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.1
Jan 08 19:36:31 <luke-jr> etc
Jan 08 19:37:11 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jan 08 19:37:15 <Tsuyo> looks like .. its workig :)
Jan 08 19:37:23 <Tsuyo> Thank you guys :)
Jan 08 19:38:50 <ieatlint> note that if you just changed the ip on the phone, you will have to repeat that step every time you reboot the phone
Jan 08 19:39:16 <Tsuyo> wouldnt be a problem for me.
Jan 08 19:39:23 <lolloo> nice congrats.
Jan 08 19:39:26 <Tsuyo> I don't even restart my phone often
Jan 08 19:40:17 <SpeedEvil> There is a stupid hack to do init scripts when you don't want to do init scripts.
Jan 08 19:40:26 <SpeedEvil> Queen Beecon can launch scripts at system start.
Jan 08 19:40:29 <SpeedEvil> Do that
Jan 08 19:41:31 <Tsuyo> allright
Jan 08 19:43:47 <DocScrutinizer> yuck
Jan 08 19:44:18 <ieatlint> and thus today had the first female political assassination in the US
Jan 08 19:44:49 <DocScrutinizer> ETAB?
Jan 08 19:44:54 <ShadowJK> tell me someone starting with P got it
Jan 08 19:45:08 <ieatlint> hey, that's my rep :P
Jan 08 19:45:20 <ieatlint> nah, some woman from arizona that i've never heard of
Jan 08 19:45:25 <ShadowJK> oh wow, this 512M kingston is performing compeltely the opposite way of the Kingstons..
Jan 08 19:45:46 <DocScrutinizer> err...
Jan 08 19:45:54 <ShadowJK> the microsd kingstons :)
Jan 08 19:46:00 <DocScrutinizer> kingston vs Kingston?
Jan 08 19:46:22 <ShadowJK> also the microsd kingsotns are a bit dubious, I think they all came from HK
Jan 08 19:48:01 <ShadowJK> it seems to be running faster at rewrite than at write..
Jan 08 19:48:37 <ShadowJK> Also seems to run faster the more threads I throw at it
Jan 08 19:48:54 <ShadowJK> This makes about as much sense as ketchup on pancakes
Jan 08 19:49:50 <lcuk> what os are you testing this in?
Jan 08 19:50:12 <lcuk> oh this is on shiva isnt it
Jan 08 19:50:28 <ShadowJK> ye
Jan 08 19:50:43 <lcuk> so get onto #shiva or whatever and moan there
Jan 08 19:50:47 <lcuk> or start testing on maemo
Jan 08 19:50:54 <lcuk> :P
Jan 08 19:51:16 <ShadowJK> This is basically direct to hw, the OS and HW shouldn't be interfering at all
Jan 08 19:51:30 <luke-jr> …
Jan 08 19:51:43 <luke-jr> that makes no sense :P
Jan 08 19:51:58 <ShadowJK> If I tested on N900 I'd see the same values
Jan 08 19:53:09 <talineo> hi, can someone help me with an n810 problem, I think I have some bad bad mistake (like updating udev and reboot the tablet ...)
Jan 08 19:53:51 <ShadowJK> apt-get upgrade is mostly a mistake
Jan 08 19:53:59 <VladNistor-mob> there was some crap flying around the net about pr 1.4 in Q2 2011, it's just that isn't it?
Jan 08 19:54:00 <luke-jr> talineo: yeah, that's a mistake
Jan 08 19:54:21 <ShadowJK> VladNistor-mob, April 1st is in Q2 2011, right?
Jan 08 19:54:32 <lolloo> wow nice!
Jan 08 19:54:32 <luke-jr> lol
Jan 08 19:54:47 <talineo> luke-jr:
Jan 08 19:55:09 <talineo> luke-jr: is this some mistake I can get out of ?
Jan 08 19:55:10 <VladNistor-mob> yes, it starts then, and I also see your point
Jan 08 19:55:29 <VladNistor-mob> just wondering though
Jan 08 19:55:30 <talineo> the device start and restart again and again ...
Jan 08 19:55:35 <lcuk> bug 11384
Jan 08 19:55:37 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11384 Diablo extras & extras devel badly signed with Fremantle repository key
Jan 08 19:55:39 <luke-jr> talineo: cold-flash?
Jan 08 19:55:51 <lcuk> X-Fade, ping, can something be done about this please :$
Jan 08 19:56:09 <VladNistor-mob> luke-jr, that comes with menopause i hear
Jan 08 19:56:17 <ShadowJK> lcuk, you know how people are always saying "Get a fast class 6 or class 10 card" when talking about N900 for MeeGo and such, I've only tested half the unused cards I have, and I'm already finding that higher class rating doesn't mean universally faster
Jan 08 19:56:51 <lcuk> ShadowJK, i dont know
Jan 08 19:56:59 <luke-jr> talineo: do you have another OS installed?
Jan 08 19:57:08 <lcuk> because testing on one device does not mean same results on maemo devices
Jan 08 19:57:26 <talineo> lukep-jr: no
Jan 08 19:57:29 <luke-jr> talineo: otherwise, if it's /really/ important to just undo it, I could probably help you build a recovery kernel, but it would take so much time I'd have to charge for it
Jan 08 19:57:30 <lcuk> since in part its how the os talks to the card too
Jan 08 19:57:38 <talineo> luke-jr: no
Jan 08 19:57:40 <luke-jr> talineo: probably a couple of days
Jan 08 19:57:59 <luke-jr> if it's not important, just reflash ☺
Jan 08 19:58:13 <luke-jr> but do it soon
Jan 08 19:58:23 <talineo> luke-jr: sorry it's hard to follow you
Jan 08 19:58:25 <luke-jr> broken OS tend to not charge your battery
Jan 08 19:58:31 <talineo> what means reflash ?
Jan 08 19:58:36 <luke-jr> …………
Jan 08 19:58:41 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, and I'm guessing a class 10 isn't faster than the eMMC right?
Jan 08 19:58:43 <luke-jr> download the firmware and flash it
Jan 08 19:58:45 <talineo> loosing it all ?
Jan 08 19:58:53 <luke-jr> MohammadAG: class 2 is probably faster than eMMC
Jan 08 19:58:57 <luke-jr> talineo: yes
Jan 08 19:59:16 <talineo> but just the OS and Apps, not home data ?
Jan 08 19:59:23 <lolloo> blame nokia for software charging
Jan 08 19:59:25 <luke-jr> not sure, possibly everything
Jan 08 19:59:28 <ShadowJK> MohammadAG, I don't think you can unviersally say that
Jan 08 19:59:40 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: I do. the eMMC is SLOW
Jan 08 19:59:55 <luke-jr> I just threw an off-the-shelf 2 GB uSD in mine and it was faster
Jan 08 19:59:57 <talineo> for the battery I remove it for now, so no big problem
Jan 08 20:00:10 <ShadowJK> I'm pretty sure these Class 4 Kingstons are slower :-)
Jan 08 20:00:10 <luke-jr> talineo: ok, but still don't wait weeks
Jan 08 20:00:15 <luke-jr> batterys discharge over time
Jan 08 20:00:19 <talineo> ok
Jan 08 20:00:33 <ShadowJK> You would lose /home, but /media/mmc1 /media/mmc2 would be saved
Jan 08 20:01:24 <DocScrutinizer> yeah :-S
Jan 08 20:01:32 <DocScrutinizer> diablo is awesome
Jan 08 20:01:57 <talineo> home is very problematic, because of gpe
Jan 08 20:02:03 <DocScrutinizer> when optification is just that, what's diablo partitioning then?
Jan 08 20:02:24 <DocScrutinizer> ~optification
Jan 08 20:02:25 <infobot> optification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3
Jan 08 20:03:05 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, I haven't figured out a way to sanely benchmark the emmc yet..
Jan 08 20:03:16 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: dd
Jan 08 20:03:43 <ShadowJK> first, dd is a stupid benchmark. it tells you nothing. Second, you'd need to run your benchmark tool when the device is in a state where it's not using the emmc, at all
Jan 08 20:04:04 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Jan 08 20:04:17 <DocScrutinizer> run dd with realtime scheduling
Jan 08 20:04:29 <ShadowJK> Not good enough :P
Jan 08 20:04:41 <ShadowJK> You'd need to run the benchmark without /home, without MyDocs and without swap
Jan 08 20:04:43 <DocScrutinizer> disable irq
Jan 08 20:04:45 <DocScrutinizer> :-P
Jan 08 20:05:12 <ShadowJK> Which means running it from one of the early bootscripts right after the mmc driver has been loaded but before swapon and mount
Jan 08 20:05:16 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, even rt will pass control to system, when waiting for IO
Jan 08 20:05:27 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: it's called Gentoo
Jan 08 20:05:51 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, I thought that's the name of this year's flu virus
Jan 08 20:06:03 <user___> hey, how do I lookup the wep key I stored on this thing?
Jan 08 20:06:20 <lcuk> X-Fade, ahh it doesn't actually block usage of the repo, it just gives bad warning when you refresh
Jan 08 20:06:45 <user___> instead of having it show up as stars in the internet connections prefs
Jan 08 20:07:38 <DocScrutinizer> user___: iwconfig will show you the encryption key in hex
Jan 08 20:07:40 <ShadowJK> But anyway, Kingston Class 4 MicroSD, sequential writes in 512k blocks: 10 megabytes/second. Same card, 4 threads writing sequentially in 128k blocks: 500 kbyte/s. Sandisk class 2 (yes, two) card, 4 threads writing sequentially in 128k blocks: 3.3 Megabytes/second.
Jan 08 20:08:00 <ShadowJK> The class 2 is outperforming the class 4 by a factor of 6.
Jan 08 20:08:14 <ShadowJK> The class 6 only wins in the single-tasking digital camera use case
Jan 08 20:08:19 <toresbe> hm
Jan 08 20:08:20 <DocScrutinizer> user___: nfc where it's stored though
Jan 08 20:08:22 <ShadowJK> sorry, class 4
Jan 08 20:08:30 <toresbe> maybe buying the class 6 wasn't a good idea then
Jan 08 20:08:45 <ShadowJK> Well it's not the entire story
Jan 08 20:08:57 <user___> instead of having it show up as stars in the internet connections prefs
Jan 08 20:09:02 <Sicelo> ~nfc
Jan 08 20:09:03 <infobot> somebody said nfc was No Fucking Clue
Jan 08 20:09:11 <ShadowJK> The whole story is something like "A good class 2 beats a shitty class 6."
Jan 08 20:09:42 <user___> how do I look in nfc?
Jan 08 20:09:50 <toresbe> I have nfc.
Jan 08 20:10:32 <kerio> the problem is that "ULTRA SUPER XXXXXTREME" SDs are heavily optimized for very fast sequential writes
Jan 08 20:10:39 <DocScrutinizer> probably you need to dig through all gconf keys to find it
Jan 08 20:11:27 <ShadowJK> Inside the microSD is a small little ARM MCU that translates block device requests from the host into reads and writes to the flash. The speed difference I'm observing comes most likely from the "good" card having a more capable ARM processor inside, or having more sophisticated programming than the "cheap" class 4 :)
Jan 08 20:12:20 <user___> how do I get to gconf keys? can you give me a path?
Jan 08 20:12:24 <kerio> why can't i use the raw memory inside the SD? :(
Jan 08 20:12:26 <lcuk> ? microsd has ARM chip inside?
Jan 08 20:12:34 <SpeedEvil> yes luck
Jan 08 20:12:38 <kerio> lcuk: yup
Jan 08 20:12:47 <kerio> and it's pretty much gratis
Jan 08 20:12:56 <ShadowJK> lcuk, yes
Jan 08 20:13:12 <kerio> because the cost of testing the NAND before selling it without a controller is bigger than the cost of the controller
Jan 08 20:14:00 <ShadowJK> Around 2006 or so I saw Transcend advertising that their SD cards' CPU could be reprogrammed on the fly
Jan 08 20:14:10 <ShadowJK> Of course, you'd only gotten info on how to do that if you paid them megabucks :(
Jan 08 20:14:21 <talineo> luke-jr: how many would you charge ?
Jan 08 20:14:29 <kerio> µSDs are a *tiiiiiiiiny* cpu and a nand
Jan 08 20:14:45 <SpeedEvil> physically tiny
Jan 08 20:14:51 <SpeedEvil> It's quite capable logically
Jan 08 20:14:58 <jaska> probably mmuless arm?
Jan 08 20:15:11 <kerio> well, i'd assume that, being a cpu, it has at least AND and XOR
Jan 08 20:15:12 <SpeedEvil> 32 bit, mmuless, probably
Jan 08 20:15:51 <SpeedEvil> getting 200K of RAM on the CPU isn't cheap, and pretty much means you're into 32 bit territory
Jan 08 20:16:12 <kerio> does that mean that all of our hacker badges should be revoked because nobody can run arbitrary code on microSDs they own?
Jan 08 20:16:22 <ShadowJK> yes
Jan 08 20:16:24 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jan 08 20:16:37 <kerio> :(
Jan 08 20:16:43 <SpeedEvil> Arbitrary code is interesting, as it'd allow raw-mode.
Jan 08 20:16:48 <SpeedEvil> As well as other things.
Jan 08 20:16:56 <ShadowJK> They also have to be able to run that DRM shit that *SD supports (but nobody uses)
Jan 08 20:17:35 <lcuk> can someone please back this up with web resources
Jan 08 20:17:39 <kerio> ShadowJK: except windows phone 7
Jan 08 20:17:42 <kerio> :)
Jan 08 20:17:57 <SpeedEvil> http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 lcuk
Jan 08 20:18:12 <ShadowJK> I was going to paste that :)
Jan 08 20:18:22 * MohammadAG programs his uSD's CPU to compile a kernel
Jan 08 20:18:54 <SpeedEvil> http://bunniestudios.com/blog/images/microsd_lineup.jpg
Jan 08 20:19:51 <SpeedEvil> microSDs are insane - they have multiple shaved chips stacked on top of each other
Jan 08 20:22:02 <MohammadAG> hmm
Jan 08 20:22:19 <MohammadAG> how do I decapsulate a uSD?
Jan 08 20:22:44 <ShadowJK> acid
Jan 08 20:22:53 <SpeedEvil> nitric+sulphuric acid, warmed, sprayed over the chip
Jan 08 20:23:11 <ShadowJK> Does it also "decasulate" human hands?
Jan 08 20:23:13 <SpeedEvil> use a flouropolymer rubber gasket to contain it.
Jan 08 20:23:15 <ShadowJK> decapsulate
Jan 08 20:23:19 <SpeedEvil> yes.
Jan 08 20:24:17 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: you basically don't get datasheets or other info for the NAND controller chips, as the are made to be sold only to people making 10M cards at a time.
Jan 08 20:24:41 <MohammadAG> hmm
Jan 08 20:25:32 <SpeedEvil> http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/96515/SAMSUNG/UM_S3C49F9X.html
Jan 08 20:25:38 <SpeedEvil> though mabe that may be pessimistic
Jan 08 20:25:46 <kerio> let's buy 10M cards
Jan 08 20:25:51 <SpeedEvil> the above chip is mentioned in the bunnie blog
Jan 08 20:25:57 <SpeedEvil> well - a related chip
Jan 08 20:26:02 <SpeedEvil> this is a CF flash controller
Jan 08 20:26:14 <kerio> OpeµSD
Jan 08 20:26:42 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, its just not required under normal circumstances
Jan 08 20:26:44 <kerio> a µSD for nerds
Jan 08 20:26:51 <lcuk> its a memory card
Jan 08 20:26:56 <SpeedEvil> what's not required?
Jan 08 20:27:18 <ShadowJK> This is why I'm hoping Windows Phone 7 will take off, because I suspect Microsoft will create a IOPS based Speed Rating for memory cards :)
Jan 08 20:27:45 <ShadowJK> Like how their ReadyBoost requirements changed the market
Jan 08 20:31:48 <ShadowJK> It'd be nice to get told about the failure modes too beforehand :)
Jan 08 20:32:12 <kerio> no, srsly, OpeµSD
Jan 08 20:32:20 <kerio> i'd buy that
Jan 08 20:36:39 <SpeedEvil> Me too. I'd love it as a datalogger.
Jan 08 20:44:47 <DocScrutinizer> meh, who's user____?
Jan 08 20:44:49 <MohammadAG> where's libqtm's git?
Jan 08 20:45:39 <DocScrutinizer> anyway: dig up wlan key:  gconftool-2 -R /|grep -C15 <SSID-of-AP>
Jan 08 21:16:54 <DocScrutinizer> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=915218#post915218
Jan 08 21:28:50 <rhkfin> Do you have git working OK on N900/Maemo? Trying to git clone something, I get git: 'remote-curl' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'.
Jan 08 21:29:34 <BCMM_> rhkfin: did you install git-core?
Jan 08 21:29:51 <rhkfin> BCMM_: installed 'git', will check -core..
Jan 08 21:30:20 <rhkfin> indeed I didn't. And funny enough, it will remove the package 'git'
Jan 08 21:30:37 <rhkfin> thanks..
Jan 08 21:30:41 <rhkfin> did'nt expect that.
Jan 08 21:32:35 <mgedmin> history
Jan 08 21:32:38 <rhkfin> BCMM_: thanks, got my first pyqt app running on maemo :)
Jan 08 21:32:43 <mgedmin> debian had a git package for "GNU Interactive Tools"
Jan 08 21:32:45 <BCMM_> shiny
Jan 08 21:33:01 <mgedmin> nobody knows what it is, nobody cares about it, but when Linus wrote Git, the package had to be named git-core
Jan 08 21:33:15 <BCMM_> oooooh, that's why
Jan 08 21:33:29 <rhkfin> ok, weird..
Jan 08 21:33:35 <rhkfin> thanks mgedmin
Jan 08 21:33:35 <mgedmin> I think there was an early Maemo port named 'git', and then someone else later ported the Debian git-core package and had to add Replaces: git because they both ship /usr/bin/git or something like that
Jan 08 21:33:45 <mgedmin> I'm just guessing
Jan 08 21:33:52 <Gyjf> was it Linus who wrote it?
Jan 08 21:34:00 <Gyjf> then it has to be good
Jan 08 21:34:08 <BCMM_> they need a system of package categories
Jan 08 21:34:11 <rhkfin> Gyjf: git? yes
Jan 08 21:34:20 * Gyjf downloads
Jan 08 21:35:06 <rhkfin> Gyjf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software)#Early_history
Jan 08 21:35:10 <rhkfin> It's a fun story :)
Jan 08 21:35:11 <trumee> something has been bothering me. I am using a DC-10 charger which gives out 1.2A current. Does it put more pressure on the car battery?
Jan 08 21:35:27 <rhkfin> "Take CVS as an example of what not to do; if in doubt, make the exact opposite decision."
Jan 08 21:35:39 <trumee> DocScrutinizer: any comment?
Jan 08 21:35:46 <chx> http://hulubei.net/tudor/git/ this is the "other" git
Jan 08 21:36:31 * trumee had his car alternator fail the other day. Could that be due to DC-10 charger?
Jan 08 21:36:41 <BCMM_> it isn't even anything to do with GNU...
Jan 08 21:37:10 <rhkfin> how do I take a screenshot from CLI (over ssh?)
Jan 08 21:37:22 <BCMM_> oh, apparently it is on GNU mirrors
Jan 08 21:37:47 <RST38h> Moo.
Jan 08 21:37:47 <ZogG> MohammadAG, ping
Jan 08 21:37:53 <ZogG> i have good news for you
Jan 08 21:39:17 <MohammadAG> pong
Jan 08 21:39:30 <HtheB> hi :)
Jan 08 21:39:37 <HtheB> MohammadAG
Jan 08 21:41:17 <MohammadAG> HtheB, hey
Jan 08 21:41:21 <MohammadAG> ZogG, do tell :P
Jan 08 21:41:21 <HtheB> how r u
Jan 08 21:41:33 <ZogG> MohammadAG about broadcom
Jan 08 21:41:53 <MohammadAG> HtheB, fine I guess
Jan 08 21:42:01 <HtheB> :D
Jan 08 21:42:03 <MohammadAG> ZogG, it can't be good then :P
Jan 08 21:42:07 <ZogG> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/215919/broadcom_joins_the_linux_foundation.html
Jan 08 21:42:27 <MohammadAG> in fact, i'm using my N900 to reply cause my PC wlan timed out, so nice timing
Jan 08 21:42:47 * MohammadAG waits for PC to connect to click that
Jan 08 21:42:52 <ZogG> MohammadAG, Since the release of that new open driver, it has been integrated into the recent Linux kernel release 2.6.37, where it can be actively improved upon by the entire Linux community. It was also included in Ubuntu 10.10, or Maverick Meerkat, last fall.
Jan 08 21:42:52 <ZogG> Moving forward, Linux users of hardware with Broadcom chips will no longer have to give wireless another thought.
Jan 08 21:43:15 <HtheB> yy
Jan 08 21:43:25 <HtheB> yaaaay
Jan 08 21:43:27 <MohammadAG> ZogG, isn't that old?
Jan 08 21:43:39 <MohammadAG> it is old
Jan 08 21:43:49 <MohammadAG> since I'm on 10.10 :P
Jan 08 21:44:03 <HtheB> O_o?
Jan 08 21:44:42 <HtheB> MohammadAG, I noticed something about my N900 :D
Jan 08 21:44:48 <rhkfin> Hei any pointers for screenshot tools?
Jan 08 21:44:55 <MohammadAG> ZogG, I just got the "i have good news for you" part on my PC
Jan 08 21:45:00 <NIN101> They should just fix their b43 crap.
Jan 08 21:45:05 <MohammadAG> rhkfin, yeah, CTRL+Shift+p
Jan 08 21:45:11 <rhkfin> hu?!
Jan 08 21:45:14 <NIN101> Or at least make it more open and not so restritcted.
Jan 08 21:45:35 <HtheB> remember the bluetooth.... well.. it seems to be that the "bluetooth is working" in the background. When you search for a device, it DOES find my N900... but that's all :(
Jan 08 21:45:42 <HtheB> I can't send any files to the N900 :p
Jan 08 21:45:49 <MohammadAG> rhkfin, press the three buttons, screenshot will be in the photos app
Jan 08 21:45:59 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: err what?
Jan 08 21:46:03 <ZogG> rhkfin built in option for screenshots
Jan 08 21:46:13 <ZogG> NIN101 it is open now
Jan 08 21:46:18 <ZogG> MohammadAG got the link
Jan 08 21:46:24 <rhkfin> MohammadAG: nice, will check!
Jan 08 21:46:27 <ZogG> what chip/ kernel do you have
Jan 08 21:46:46 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, sucking out 1.2A from the car battery is bad?
Jan 08 21:46:47 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer heil hypnotoad
Jan 08 21:46:51 <NIN101> ZogG: 14e4:4315
Jan 08 21:46:59 <DocScrutinizer> r33b.net
Jan 08 21:47:03 <BCMM_> trumee: a car battery can cope with 1.2A
Jan 08 21:47:06 <ZogG> trumee sucking anything is bad
Jan 08 21:47:21 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: what makes you think you're doing that?
Jan 08 21:47:23 <ZogG> NIN101 you are not MohammadAG  =)
Jan 08 21:47:30 <ZogG> NIN101 what chip is it?
Jan 08 21:47:35 <NIN101> lol, nvm
Jan 08 21:47:50 <rhkfin> ZogG: MohammadAG where do I find the files in the file structure?
Jan 08 21:47:56 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, my car alternator died. was wondering whether the DC10 charger killed it.
Jan 08 21:48:05 <MohammadAG> BCM43224
Jan 08 21:48:09 <ZogG> rhkfin screenshots?
Jan 08 21:48:12 <rhkfin> ZogG: yes
Jan 08 21:48:13 <DocScrutinizer> what's a dc-10
Jan 08 21:48:16 <rhkfin> ZogG: not in DCIM
Jan 08 21:48:20 <MohammadAG> rhkfin, /home/user/MyDocs/.images/Screenshots afaik
Jan 08 21:48:23 <DocScrutinizer> the standard wallcharger?
Jan 08 21:48:24 <rhkfin> thanks
Jan 08 21:48:25 <BCMM_> trumee: a charged car battery should handle that for like a day and a bit
Jan 08 21:48:30 <MohammadAG> or Images/Screenshots in the file manager
Jan 08 21:48:37 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, Nokia DC-10 charger
Jan 08 21:48:37 <MohammadAG> DCIM is camera
Jan 08 21:48:45 <ZogG> Broadcom would like to announce the initial release of a fully-open
Jan 08 21:48:45 <ZogG> Linux driver for it's latest generation of 11n chipsets...... It supports multiple current chips (BCM4313,
Jan 08 21:48:45 <ZogG> BCM43224, BCM43225) as well as providing a framework for supporting
Jan 08 21:48:45 <ZogG> additional chips in the future,
Jan 08 21:48:46 <toresbe> DocScrutinizer: At most, 380 passengers
Jan 08 21:48:47 <rhkfin> MohammadAG: ok, thanks, found them
Jan 08 21:48:50 <trumee> BCMM, good to know that
Jan 08 21:49:05 <MohammadAG> ZogG, isn't wl.ko open already?
Jan 08 21:49:13 <MohammadAG> rhkfin, ty
Jan 08 21:49:15 <ZogG> yes but they add support
Jan 08 21:49:18 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: you expect me to google for dc-10 now?
Jan 08 21:49:30 <ZogG> and i helped one girl actually to start the wifi on arch
Jan 08 21:49:37 <ShadowJK> DC-10 is a Nokia car charger with 1.2A 5V output
Jan 08 21:49:37 <ZogG> i think she has same chip
Jan 08 21:49:43 <DocScrutinizer> or run the to other room, to check if the standard wallcharger is a DC-10??
Jan 08 21:49:46 <ZogG> it's just included in 27 kernel
Jan 08 21:49:52 <ShadowJK> It probably has a switch mode converter
Jan 08 21:49:55 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: thanks
Jan 08 21:49:56 <ZogG> so update =)
Jan 08 21:50:00 <toresbe> ShadowJK: 1.2A 5V output does _not_ mean it has a 1.2A 12V input.
Jan 08 21:50:05 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, nope. if you havent heard of it.
Jan 08 21:50:08 <ShadowJK> toresbe, yes
Jan 08 21:50:14 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: this charger most likely will draw less than 1.2A from battery
Jan 08 21:50:22 <ShadowJK> toresbe, in fact it would probably melt down if it had 12V input :-)
Jan 08 21:50:26 <DocScrutinizer> toresbe: exactly
Jan 08 21:50:28 <ShadowJK> uh 12V 1.2A input
Jan 08 21:50:38 <trumee> it charges N900 very quickly though
Jan 08 21:51:02 <MohammadAG> ZogG, the N900 runs 2.6.28 :P
Jan 08 21:51:03 <trumee> absolutely fantastic charger
Jan 08 21:51:03 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: the N900 can not charge more quickly than with the standard wallcharger
Jan 08 21:51:18 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: as N900 never ever takes 1.2A input
Jan 08 21:51:33 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, much better than 500mA charger.
Jan 08 21:51:56 <DocScrutinizer> sure, N900 takes some 800..900mA at max
Jan 08 21:52:32 <DocScrutinizer> and what was that nonsense with killing your converter?
Jan 08 21:52:57 <DocScrutinizer> ar what's an alternator anyway?
Jan 08 21:53:01 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, i thought i was loading the car electronics too much
Jan 08 21:53:10 <ZogG> MohammadAG how is n900 releated you wanted wlan card?
Jan 08 21:53:11 <DocScrutinizer> no way, dude
Jan 08 21:53:42 * trumee is a happy bunny now
Jan 08 21:53:54 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: your zigarette lighter might make trouble with the 20...50A it takes
Jan 08 21:54:39 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: but not a wimpy usb charger
Jan 08 21:54:53 <trumee> Sygic absolutely needs a DC-10 charger.
Jan 08 21:55:09 <trumee> usb charger doesnt cut it for gps usage
Jan 08 21:55:21 <ShadowJK> the car stereo probably uses more than the charger
Jan 08 21:55:32 <DocScrutinizer> you bet it does
Jan 08 21:55:35 <trumee> ShadowJK, oh. really
Jan 08 21:55:47 <MohammadAG> ZogG, you said 27, not 37
Jan 08 21:56:04 <ZogG> MohammadAG i meant 37
Jan 08 21:56:09 <trumee> what about the chargers which convert to AC.
Jan 08 21:56:11 <ZogG> i'm dyslexic =)
Jan 08 21:56:23 <DocScrutinizer> trumee: AIUI DC-10 *is* a usb charger, no?
Jan 08 21:56:35 <ShadowJK> Yeah it is
Jan 08 21:56:45 <ShadowJK> But he probably used some generic weak crap before
Jan 08 21:56:52 <ZogG> trumee your car can explode from awesomeness from n900
Jan 08 21:56:56 <ZogG> be carefull
Jan 08 21:57:03 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer can prove it
Jan 08 21:57:15 <DocScrutinizer> sure, be careful!
Jan 08 21:57:16 <trumee> ShadowJK, yes used a 500mA charger from ebay. pathetic charging.
Jan 08 21:57:28 <ShadowJK> Inverter -> AC Wall charger -> N900 will most definitely waste a shitload of power
Jan 08 21:57:30 <DocScrutinizer> yes, I bet
Jan 08 21:57:39 <ShadowJK> More than car stereo, less than car headlights
Jan 08 21:57:41 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: ack
Jan 08 21:58:29 * MohammadAG ponders installing the Ubuntu natty 2.6.37 kernel
Jan 08 21:59:04 <ZogG> MohammadAG do you have broadcom on PC or laptop?
Jan 08 21:59:08 <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, look on the bright side, at least it allows the car body to help the FMTX :p
Jan 08 21:59:14 <ZogG> by PC i mean Desctop
Jan 08 21:59:20 <ZogG> desktop*
Jan 08 21:59:25 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: though I'd feel better with such a setup, as I've seen several devices freeing magic blue smoke, due to poorly OVProtected USB car chargers, and then somebody engaged the starter while phone charging
Jan 08 21:59:29 <MohammadAG> ZogG, PC = laptop
Jan 08 21:59:37 <MohammadAG> so I use both to refer to, both
Jan 08 21:59:42 <ZogG> MohammadAG PC for me is Desktop
Jan 08 21:59:52 <ZogG> as laptop is more mobile computer
Jan 08 22:00:08 <ZogG> and Pc is personal, but in kinda way personal in my room computer
Jan 08 22:00:17 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, I'm not so sure... looking at the $15 inverters people buy from ebay...
Jan 08 22:00:22 <ZogG> otherwise you can call any phone PC now as it's yours =)
Jan 08 22:00:34 <MohammadAG> ZogG, both are personal for me
Jan 08 22:00:53 <ZogG> MohammadAG, where was the problem on laptop and you have broadcom there tifht?
Jan 08 22:00:53 <MohammadAG> no one touches my PCs
Jan 08 22:00:58 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: I got a FR here with a label: "declared dead 2008-08-23. Died while charging on a scooter that got started"
Jan 08 22:00:59 <ZogG> i did
Jan 08 22:01:05 <ZogG> i touched it in dirty palce
Jan 08 22:01:08 <ZogG> places*
Jan 08 22:01:08 <MohammadAG> actually, no one knows how to, I leave them on a logged out tty when I'm away
Jan 08 22:01:14 <ZogG> what's wrong with me
Jan 08 22:01:25 <lcuk> ssh root@MohammadAG touch /usr/bin/omg_ponies
Jan 08 22:01:32 <MohammadAG> the problem is broadcom :P
Jan 08 22:01:33 <ZogG> =)
Jan 08 22:01:47 <ZogG> i bet your mom can hack in and play soduku online on facebook
Jan 08 22:01:52 * MohammadAG changes root password from root to something else
Jan 08 22:02:00 <ZogG> MohammadAG wait say me again the chip
Jan 08 22:02:07 <ZogG> tell*
Jan 08 22:02:08 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, what do you mean got started?
Jan 08 22:02:17 <DocScrutinizer> egage starter
Jan 08 22:02:21 <MohammadAG> BCM43224
Jan 08 22:02:21 <DocScrutinizer> turn the key
Jan 08 22:02:27 <ZogG> damn she is offline
Jan 08 22:02:28 <pupnik> how hard is it to get hildon running on a standard laptop/netbook?
Jan 08 22:02:33 <MohammadAG> start the engine
Jan 08 22:02:35 <ZogG> the girl i helped with broadcom
Jan 08 22:02:41 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, what happens at startup?
Jan 08 22:02:41 <ZogG> she has one with new eeepc
Jan 08 22:02:46 <ZogG> is it hte same chip?
Jan 08 22:02:58 <DocScrutinizer> there's severe noise and spikes on 12V
Jan 08 22:02:59 <MohammadAG> ZogG, what's her number? I can ask directly
Jan 08 22:03:02 <MohammadAG> jk
Jan 08 22:03:04 <ZogG> MohammadAG, anyway i wouldn't rush to buy new if i was you
Jan 08 22:03:04 <MohammadAG> xP
Jan 08 22:03:07 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, ah!
Jan 08 22:03:30 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, i will be careful in the future.
Jan 08 22:03:31 <ZogG> MohammadAG, she is queen, as she is really pretty young ang gentoo guru =)
Jan 08 22:03:41 <ZogG> i'm affraid of pretty and smart girls
Jan 08 22:03:45 <DocScrutinizer> so cheap shit USB chargers will feed those to your phone ---> BOOOM
Jan 08 22:03:46 <MohammadAG> ZogG, the speed I'm downloading 2.6.37 at makes me think otherwise
Jan 08 22:03:52 <ZogG> there should be at least something i'm better
Jan 08 22:03:58 <ZogG> but as i'm ugly and stupid
Jan 08 22:04:04 <MohammadAG> ZogG, I'm not, at least they understand you're a geek
Jan 08 22:04:12 <MohammadAG> since they're usually geekier
Jan 08 22:04:14 <ZogG> MohammadAG, give it a try
Jan 08 22:04:16 <trumee> DocScrutinizer, so its best to plug it in after startup?
Jan 08 22:04:25 <DocScrutinizer> yes, definitely
Jan 08 22:04:28 <ZogG> told you i had the same with atheros and now it works fine
Jan 08 22:04:45 * trumee thanks DocScrutinizer for this advice.
Jan 08 22:04:50 <DocScrutinizer> yw
Jan 08 22:04:53 * MohammadAG ponders getting a 30ft ethernet cable and be done with wifi
Jan 08 22:05:02 <DocScrutinizer> hehehe
Jan 08 22:05:09 <trumee> MohammadAG, homeplug?
Jan 08 22:05:24 <ZogG> MohammadAG, i maybe can get you a cable
Jan 08 22:05:26 <DocScrutinizer> cat5a is the best WIFI you can get
Jan 08 22:05:38 <ZogG> asked the workplace and they gave me 15 meters
Jan 08 22:05:56 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, mindcontrol is the best wireless
Jan 08 22:06:46 <solitaconcam> http://tinyurl.com/vanesita-hot-camara
Jan 08 22:07:12 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, time for +o +b -o?
Jan 08 22:07:22 <DocScrutinizer> wtf why did nobody point me at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63997 Boost-N900 ?
Jan 08 22:07:27 <DangerMaus> what happened in arizonia?
Jan 08 22:07:38 <DangerMaus> oops wong channel
Jan 08 22:08:12 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Jan 08 22:08:57 <Lantizia> Hey is there a way I can disable the SMS and Cellular Call Making abilities of the N900 (to clarify... leaving things like Skype, SIP and GPRS/WCDMA/HSDPA connectivity intact)
Jan 08 22:09:10 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, why? i just got turned on
Jan 08 22:09:35 <ZogG> Lantizia yes
Jan 08 22:09:35 <Tamyrlin> Lantizia: Remove the SIM-card? :)
Jan 08 22:09:47 <Lantizia> Tamyrlin, you haven't read my clarifications :P
Jan 08 22:09:53 <ZogG> you can install tweak for power key to turn off celular modem
Jan 08 22:09:54 <Tamyrlin> Ah, sorry, GPRS
Jan 08 22:09:57 <Lantizia> ZogG, I assume it means disabling the telepathy modules?
Jan 08 22:10:00 <MohammadAG> this is #maemo, not #turnmeon
Jan 08 22:10:16 <Lantizia> ZogG, No... again read the clarifications
Jan 08 22:10:21 <ZogG> MohammadAG and if maemo turns me on?
Jan 08 22:10:29 <ZogG> what should i do than?
Jan 08 22:10:47 <ZogG> say what?
Jan 08 22:10:56 <Lantizia> Obviously I can't turn off the cellular modem like ZogG says or remove the SIM card like Tamyrlin or that will disable Internet connectively
Jan 08 22:11:04 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, i wan the power to ban people too, i would ban myself than =)
Jan 08 22:11:14 <Lantizia> i.e. over GPRS/WCDMA/HSDPA as already listed
Jan 08 22:11:27 <Tamyrlin> Lantizia: Perhaps you could kill the phone/SMS application. Although I'm not sure how to do that
Jan 08 22:11:39 <ZogG> i think than you should talk to your cellular company
Jan 08 22:11:50 <Lantizia> Tamyrlin, if I kill either application then I loose the ability to manage my facebook conversations and make SIP phone calls
Jan 08 22:11:54 <ZogG> !selfkick
Jan 08 22:12:11 <DocScrutinizer> Lantizia: basically not possible with standard means.
Jan 08 22:12:23 <Lantizia> As far as I know the Cellular call making and SMS functions are telepathy modules aren't they?
Jan 08 22:12:38 <ZogG> MohammadAG, can you explaine to me what is closed in UI that prevents us for full portrait mode?
Jan 08 22:12:38 <Lantizia> So if I disable those modules surely the conserations and phone apps can't use them
Jan 08 22:12:46 <ZogG> as i didn't get about popups
Jan 08 22:13:04 <DocScrutinizer> Lantizia: there might be a way to lock your account at carrier, via service-codes
Jan 08 22:13:14 <DocScrutinizer> refer to starhash-enabler
Jan 08 22:13:37 <ZogG> BCMM, told ya, new portage update, getting there slowly
Jan 08 22:13:57 <MohammadAG> ZogG, everything?
Jan 08 22:13:58 <MohammadAG> you need 1 extra line in the source code
Jan 08 22:14:09 <MohammadAG> or I need to patch hildon-desktop to set portrait mode on all windows
Jan 08 22:14:12 <MohammadAG> which isn't exactly clean
Jan 08 22:14:43 <DocScrutinizer> Lantizia:   * 33 * SPERR-CODE * (Dienstkennung) #  http://www.mobilemania.de/facts+infos/gsmcodes.php
Jan 08 22:14:48 <ZogG> cause not apps themselve can go portrait - right?
Jan 08 22:15:21 <Lantizia> DocScrutinizer, I'm in the UK
Jan 08 22:15:22 <DocScrutinizer> Lantizia: you'll need *#-ena pkg and your carrier has to support this function
Jan 08 22:15:27 <Lantizia> Unlikely
Jan 08 22:15:58 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, do you need *# package to do it? i thought it works out of box now
Jan 08 22:16:08 <DocScrutinizer> nope
Jan 08 22:16:10 <BCMM_> ZogG: what do you mean by "full portrait mode"? it's my understanding that an applications needs to be modified to work with portrait mode, and thus any program that can't be modified can't have portrait mode added
Jan 08 22:16:13 <DocScrutinizer> not afaik
Jan 08 22:16:43 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: this is no supplementary SC, like *111#
Jan 08 22:16:45 <ZogG> BCMM_ i mean not apps i mean popups and other stuff, built in stuff
Jan 08 22:16:53 <DocScrutinizer> it's a 2-digit service code
Jan 08 22:16:56 <DocScrutinizer> those don'
Jan 08 22:16:57 <ZogG> for example internet conection selection
Jan 08 22:17:01 <DocScrutinizer> t work ootb
Jan 08 22:18:34 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: though I haven't tested on 1.3 as I got none :-P
Jan 08 22:19:02 <ZogG> what music players do you use on desktop/laptop/netbook and so on
Jan 08 22:19:19 <DocScrutinizer> amarok
Jan 08 22:19:21 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer do you still use 1.1.1 like an old school ?
Jan 08 22:19:22 <DocScrutinizer> what else?
Jan 08 22:19:39 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, amarok is shitty =( but had a great UI
Jan 08 22:19:40 <DocScrutinizer> 1.1.1+++ and 1.2++
Jan 08 22:20:05 <ZogG> +++ stands for penis length? =)
Jan 08 22:20:42 <ZogG> DouDouLinux is funny for kids, lol
Jan 08 22:20:58 <DocScrutinizer> no, it stands for 1.3+_PK and a couple of tweaks as listed in my wikipage
Jan 08 22:21:22 <ZogG> i'm using xmms2 but tierd of lack of good client for it =(
Jan 08 22:21:26 <BCMM_> i still use amarok, even though it's sorta variable in quality
Jan 08 22:21:48 <BCMM_> amarok is basically totally brilliant apart from regressions. every release.
Jan 08 22:21:57 <ZogG> i used amarok 1.4 back than but as i don't use kde and don't like it and it brings all libs...
Jan 08 22:22:22 <ZogG> amarok was great in UI as i said especially for huge collections
Jan 08 22:22:47 <ZogG> gmusicbrowser looks nice for my laptop
Jan 08 22:23:03 <ZogG> BCMM, i think i'll go for funtoo on laptop when i'll have time
Jan 08 22:23:05 <BCMM_> amarok 2 is finally alright, ihmo
Jan 08 22:23:17 <ZogG> terrible desing
Jan 08 22:23:27 <ZogG> and that was only one thing good in amarok
Jan 08 22:23:32 <BCMM_> you can lay it out similar to 1.4 now
Jan 08 22:23:33 <ZogG> as it's heavy
Jan 08 22:23:50 <BCMM_> and it has a much nice interface for internet radio now
Jan 08 22:24:10 <ZogG> i don't know i almost don't ahve anythink qt reaaleted on computer aspecially kdelibs releated apps
Jan 08 22:24:24 <ZogG> internet radio is waste of time
Jan 08 22:24:27 <trumee> BCMM_, although they killed the shoutcast streams on it
Jan 08 22:24:30 <ZogG> as it's not great quality
Jan 08 22:24:52 <ZogG> i prefer my V0+flacs collection
Jan 08 22:24:59 <BCMM_> you mean sound quality, or quality of music?
Jan 08 22:25:01 <BCMM_> ah
Jan 08 22:25:11 <ZogG> otherwise i don't need musicplayer i can use websites with music
Jan 08 22:25:18 <ZogG> soundquality
Jan 08 22:25:53 <ZogG> there is no such thing as quality of music as everybody has different taste
Jan 08 22:27:00 <BCMM_> well, i was wondering which sort of snob you were :)
Jan 08 22:27:18 <BCMM_> you realise that requiring that much quality dismisses all radio ever?
Jan 08 22:27:37 <DocScrutinizer> well, being used from fomer better times to a thorens-MK-III with vacuum table and SME lever, plus appropriate amps and speakers, I have a hard time to find use in any mp3
Jan 08 22:28:14 <ZogG> radio is ok but whne it's background at work or car
Jan 08 22:28:18 <DocScrutinizer> hell, the lever allone was some 500 bucks
Jan 08 22:28:27 <BCMM_> anyway, i like using the same program for internet radio, since websites don't have stuff like a global hotkey to make it be quiet and so on
Jan 08 22:28:50 <ZogG> BCMM, you have global key for systen
Jan 08 22:28:58 <ZogG> btw what do you think about OSS
Jan 08 22:29:07 <ZogG> as it's back with OSSSv4
Jan 08 22:29:12 <ZogG> OSSv4
Jan 08 22:29:36 <ZogG> and DocScrutinizer i don't mean open SS if you thought so =)
Jan 08 22:29:49 <DocScrutinizer> what I think? OMG another new fashionable sound system
Jan 08 22:30:08 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: sorry?
Jan 08 22:30:25 <ZogG> it was joke
Jan 08 22:30:27 <ZogG> relax
Jan 08 22:30:32 <ZogG> german joke
Jan 08 22:30:43 <ZogG> lcuk, why do you still stick up with n800 again?
Jan 08 22:30:45 <DocScrutinizer> I'm always puzzled when I completely miss a joke
Jan 08 22:30:59 <DocScrutinizer> duh, a gernan joke?
Jan 08 22:31:05 <ZogG> SS like in good old german
Jan 08 22:31:06 <ZogG> you know
Jan 08 22:31:15 <DocScrutinizer> no, sorry. No idea
Jan 08 22:31:39 <ZogG> nazi SS
Jan 08 22:31:43 <ZogG> you are killing it
Jan 08 22:32:02 <DocScrutinizer> o.O
Jan 08 22:32:42 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, http://www.isdrecords.com/store/images/ss-house-flag001.jpg
Jan 08 22:32:44 <ZogG> damn you
Jan 08 22:33:07 <DocScrutinizer> did I tell you I dn't click random URLs?
Jan 08 22:33:17 <ZogG> nevermind than
Jan 08 22:33:37 <ZogG> i don't know if it's good or bad thing you don't know what i'm talking about
Jan 08 22:33:53 <ZogG> but if i'll continue to explaine they would think i'm nazi jew =)
Jan 08 22:33:58 <DocScrutinizer> I guess it's a good thing
Jan 08 22:34:24 <DocScrutinizer> I honestly have different problems
Jan 08 22:34:55 <ZogG> one side it is but on other side you have to rememeber bad things that were made in history to prevent them
Jan 08 22:36:07 <DocScrutinizer> pff, I prevent them by not thinking about them. I did that in sufficient extent when I was 40 years younger
Jan 08 22:37:00 <DocScrutinizer> nowadays I merely kick skinheads on the rails in the subway
Jan 08 22:37:37 <ieatlint> but i hear all germans are nazis
Jan 08 22:38:06 <ieatlint> and wasn't national socialism even born in bavaria?
Jan 08 22:38:13 * ieatlint eyes DocScrutinizer 
Jan 08 22:38:38 <DocScrutinizer> who cares?
Jan 08 22:39:08 <DocScrutinizer> shall I go decontaminate a smaller town, so the next idiot will get born in Hamburg?
Jan 08 22:39:47 <ieatlint> i'm pretty sure my country has dibs on the next such idiot
Jan 08 22:40:50 <BCMM_> OSS is like BSD. even if they fixed the license now, it's never going to dominate the world
Jan 08 22:41:11 <DocScrutinizer> listen, this is such a boring topic, and the notion you need to watch for history not to duplicate in very detail is quite silly, as history actually never repeats. Next Hitler is probably Putin's successor, or LePen in France. And I don't care until it's time to shoot them
Jan 08 22:41:33 <Lantizia> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68069
Jan 08 22:41:48 <Lantizia> Have popped the question there instead after confirming my carrier won't disable those services
Jan 08 22:42:24 <lcuk> ZogG, ?
Jan 08 22:42:34 <lcuk> sorry your question did not make sense
Jan 08 22:42:41 <DocScrutinizer> Lantizia: it's basically not possible to block SMS and outbound calls on an open system
Jan 08 22:42:53 <DocScrutinizer> you just can complicate it
Jan 08 22:43:10 <Baldrick> DocScrutinizer, I'm just asking for two modules software modules to be disabled
Jan 08 22:43:19 <Baldrick> I don't think it is likely to be that impossible
Jan 08 22:43:49 <DocScrutinizer> err, disable sw modules? modprobe -r is doing that?
Jan 08 22:44:31 <ieatlint> i don't think you can disable incoming SMS
Jan 08 22:44:41 <ieatlint> it's part of the radio's fw methinks
Jan 08 22:45:02 <Baldrick> DocScrutinizer, you really have no idea do you? lol
Jan 08 22:45:03 <ieatlint> pretty much same with voice, but you can set call forwarding to voicemail or something
Jan 08 22:45:05 <Baldrick> Forget about it :D
Jan 08 22:45:32 <DocScrutinizer> there's a config file for telepathy and/or rtcom-call-ui somewhere, and it has a long list of plugins for SMS, and calls, and whatnot. You probably just need to edit that list, to disable certain functions
Jan 08 22:46:41 <DocScrutinizer> Baldrick: actually I think I really have no f'ing clue what you are talking about or want to hear from me
Jan 08 22:46:45 <lcuk> Baldrick, missed half this, but there is a tablet mode enabler
Jan 08 22:47:01 <Baldrick> lcuk, yeah you really did miss half of it :P
Jan 08 22:47:08 <SpeedEvil> On microSD controllers - lcuk http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://mobile.163.com/07/0521/11/3F10FR19001117A5_10.html&ei=TOcoTZ-CHY20hAfJzqmQAg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCgQ7gEwAjgK&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ds3c49haa%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26prmd%3Divns
Jan 08 22:47:15 * lcuk misses the rest then
Jan 08 22:47:18 <DocScrutinizer> and I missed 3/4 of it
Jan 08 22:47:18 <lcuk> no prob Baldrick \o
Jan 08 22:47:35 <Baldrick> Well this explains in full...
Jan 08 22:47:35 <Baldrick> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68069
Jan 08 22:47:50 * SpeedEvil can't find the ds for the s3c49haa.
Jan 08 22:48:15 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, sitrep :P
Jan 08 22:48:20 <DocScrutinizer> s3c49haa samsung sheeva plug CPU?
Jan 08 22:48:45 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: when did you become the project manager?
Jan 08 22:48:52 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: no
Jan 08 22:49:03 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: it's a flash controller, found in SD cards
Jan 08 22:49:08 <DocScrutinizer> oooh
Jan 08 22:49:10 <SpeedEvil> 2007 vintageish
Jan 08 22:49:21 <DocScrutinizer> I bet the DS is hard to find :-P
Jan 08 22:49:47 <DocScrutinizer> a FTL
Jan 08 22:49:49 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, since the dawn of time
Jan 08 22:49:51 <SpeedEvil> yeah
Jan 08 22:50:18 <DocScrutinizer> I doubt there's such thing like datasheets for those X-D
Jan 08 22:50:37 <BCMM_> Baldrick: wouldn't just not having any numbers in the phone book be a pretty good reminder not to make phone calls?
Jan 08 22:50:45 <BCMM_> this has the advantage that you can ring 911
Jan 08 22:50:50 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, so, sitrep!
Jan 08 22:50:54 <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: yeah - I found a ds for a really old one - CF
Jan 08 22:51:04 <DocScrutinizer> wow
Jan 08 22:51:08 * MohammadAG expects a kick, runs away
Jan 08 22:51:11 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: been busy as fuck at work and life
Jan 08 22:51:20 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: haven't had the time to look at stuff
Jan 08 22:51:32 <crashanddie> MohammadAG: also, your messing with directories and shit didn't help
Jan 08 22:51:39 <Baldrick> BCMM, you haven't thought this through lol... what about Skype and SIP calling?
Jan 08 22:51:50 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, shouldn't 911 call back if I called and dropped the call?
Jan 08 22:52:01 <MohammadAG> crashanddie, I didn't mess with it enough to break API
Jan 08 22:52:17 <DocScrutinizer> usually they home in on you with black helicopters
Jan 08 22:52:47 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, they didn't, I just remembered my classmate called them when we were in germany
Jan 08 22:53:13 <BCMM_> Baldrick: oh, fair point, using skype to call real phones
Jan 08 22:53:19 <DocScrutinizer> not a big surprise. Here 911 is the code for my hometown
Jan 08 22:53:35 <MohammadAG> o_O
Jan 08 22:54:09 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, what's germany's emergency number then
Jan 08 22:54:36 <MohammadAG> oh another thing, I might be in germany at summer :P
Jan 08 22:54:40 <DocScrutinizer> international GSM emergency number (well maybe European at least) is 112
Jan 08 22:54:46 <BCMM_> dunno if it's still the case, but in the UK, if you rang 999 by accident and hung up without explaining (on a landline), the police would (eventually) knock on the door and see if you were OK
Jan 08 22:54:51 <Baldrick> MohammadAG, don't suppose you have any ideas on my telepathy question?
Jan 08 22:54:57 <RST38h> Heya Mohammad
Jan 08 22:55:19 <Baldrick> BCMM, you can't hang up on a 999 call if it's a landline - they have to.
Jan 08 22:56:43 <DocScrutinizer> well, since S7 that's not completely correct anymore
Jan 08 22:57:08 <BCMM_> Baldrick: huh? you mean it stays connected if the *caller* hangs up then picks up again?
Jan 08 22:57:34 <BCMM_> that's kinda cool
Jan 08 22:57:39 <MohammadAG> Baldrick, hmm, which one?
Jan 08 22:57:52 <Baldrick> MohammadAG, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68069
Jan 08 22:58:29 <Baldrick> BCMM_, indeed... I did it accidentally when I was very young - was doing something with an address book and my elbow caught the number 9 digit 3 or more times
Jan 08 22:58:58 <BCMM_> Baldrick: apparently i dailed 999 as a baby (definitely too young to have been told about 999 or how to dial a phone)
Jan 08 22:59:05 <Baldrick> It's nice that it's one digit (in case the other 9 are broken lol)... but bad since it's easier to accidentally dial the same number 3 times
Jan 08 22:59:20 <MohammadAG> Baldrick, you might be able to delete telepathy-ring, I'm not sure how the device will react to that
Jan 08 22:59:26 <DocScrutinizer> Baldrick: [2011-01-08 23:41:30] <DocScrutinizer> there's a config file for telepathy and/or rtcom-call-ui somewhere, and it has a long list of plugins for SMS, and calls, and whatnot. You probably just need to edit that list, to disable certain functions
Jan 08 22:59:28 <MohammadAG> # dpkg -r telepathy-ring
Jan 08 22:59:36 <Baldrick> But anyway it was impossible to hang up until I explained and they had to hang up
Jan 08 22:59:49 <Baldrick> MohammadAG, will that do SMS too?
Jan 08 23:00:06 <MohammadAG> yes, probably
Jan 08 23:00:21 <MohammadAG> since the conversations app is also telepathy
Jan 08 23:00:34 <Baldrick> MohammadAG, dpkg lists no telepathy-ring
Jan 08 23:00:41 <MohammadAG> I have no idea how the device will react
Jan 08 23:00:49 <MohammadAG> hmm, sec
Jan 08 23:00:52 <DocScrutinizer> meh
Jan 08 23:00:55 <Baldrick> oh it does... sorry
Jan 08 23:00:58 <MohammadAG> ah crap, battery's empty
Jan 08 23:01:12 <Baldrick> MohammadAG, and this won't disable general SIM/Cellular use for like Internet and such?
Jan 08 23:01:34 <DocScrutinizer> Baldrick: I bet MohammadAG hasn't tested it either
Jan 08 23:01:42 <MohammadAG> the modem should load fine
Jan 08 23:01:48 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, no, I didn't, and I won't
Jan 08 23:01:58 <DocScrutinizer> yep, thought as much
Jan 08 23:01:59 <MohammadAG> but since removing telepathy-sprit removes skype...
Jan 08 23:01:59 <Baldrick> I will test it though lol :P Since I want it hehe
Jan 08 23:02:02 <MohammadAG> spirit*
Jan 08 23:02:09 <Baldrick> MohammadAG, any way I can disable the telepathy modules rather than remove?
Jan 08 23:02:22 <DocScrutinizer> YES!
Jan 08 23:02:25 <DocScrutinizer> Baldrick: [2011-01-08 23:41:30] <DocScrutinizer> there's a config file for telepathy and/or rtcom-call-ui somewhere, and it has a long list of plugins for SMS, and calls, and whatnot. You probably just need to edit that list, to disable certain functions
Jan 08 23:02:31 <Baldrick> You've said that 3 times now
Jan 08 23:02:33 <MohammadAG> move them, or change the config file DocScrutinizer's talking about
Jan 08 23:02:36 <Baldrick> I noticed, really I did lol
Jan 08 23:02:45 <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, having the path to the file helps :P
Jan 08 23:03:01 <Baldrick> I already found /usr/share/osso-rtcom
Jan 08 23:03:07 <DocScrutinizer> alas I have to skim through whole /etc to find it
Jan 08 23:03:15 <MohammadAG> oh
Jan 08 23:03:19 <MohammadAG> find /etc -name telepathy*
Jan 08 23:03:38 <DocScrutinizer> I'm not sure this will pan out
Jan 08 23:03:44 <Baldrick> Nokia-N900:/etc# find . | grep telepathy
Jan 08 23:03:44 <Baldrick> ./osso-backup/restore.d/always/eds-backend-telepathy-restore-compatibility.sh
Jan 08 23:06:05 <Baldrick> gonna move /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-ring outa that directory and reboot
Jan 08 23:06:08 <Baldrick> take a chance lol
Jan 08 23:09:18 <DocScrutinizer>   791 ?        SLs    0:18 /usr/sbin/csd -m -p call -p gprs -p info -p net -p sim -p simpb -p sms -p ss
Jan 08 23:10:16 <DocScrutinizer> what will happen if you start this csd without "-p call -p sms" ??? ;-D
Jan 08 23:10:29 <Robot101> what's the plan?!
Jan 08 23:10:50 <DocScrutinizer> locking GSM functions except GPRS
Jan 08 23:11:05 <Lantizia> Well it seems moving telepathy-ring out of there results in zero ability to connect to 3G at all
Jan 08 23:11:08 <Lantizia> only Wiifi
Jan 08 23:11:34 <Lantizia> the phone app still shows cellular mode but the calls don't get made and the conversations app still shows a "new sms" button
Jan 08 23:12:00 <Lantizia> DocScrutinizer, where did you find that?
Jan 08 23:12:21 <DocScrutinizer> Lantizia: you don't expect the apps to deal with this situation in a pleasant way, do you? :-P
Jan 08 23:12:39 <DocScrutinizer> (find) ps
Jan 08 23:12:54 <Lantizia> right so you don't actually know what calls it then lol
Jan 08 23:13:14 <DocScrutinizer> no, but I know I've seen what calls it
Jan 08 23:13:32 <Lantizia> What is that then?
Jan 08 23:13:35 <DocScrutinizer> and I know how to find it
Jan 08 23:13:51 <DocScrutinizer> *sigh*
Jan 08 23:15:14 <DocScrutinizer> Lantizia: I think if you don't know how to fnd the script that starts  /usr/sbin/csd, then you also lack the qualification to get your call-locked setup done
Jan 08 23:15:29 <MohammadAG> Lantizia, he means, new sms will always show
Jan 08 23:15:39 <Lantizia> you mean /etc/event.d/sms-manager?
Jan 08 23:16:04 <Lantizia> I think your an elitist snob if I have to be honest, was just a simple question
Jan 08 23:17:28 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, I'm tired to tell things 3 times without anybody listening, then get asked silly simple to answer questions, that 'only' require me to do the job you are supposed to know how to do as well, and then get insulted for giving advice
Jan 08 23:17:36 <MohammadAG> grep -r "csd -m -p*" /etc/
Jan 08 23:17:59 <Lantizia> DocScrutinizer, so just a little wound up then? :P
Jan 08 23:17:59 <DocScrutinizer> or in short: I think you're a moron
Jan 08 23:18:49 <MohammadAG> settle down kids
Jan 08 23:18:51 <dotblank> I think i am a moron because the autobuilder tells me
Jan 08 23:19:15 <MohammadAG> dotblank, if you think that's enough, try fsck on a mounted partition
Jan 08 23:19:16 <ArGGu^^> Can I get in qt n900 theme name?
Jan 08 23:19:18 <MohammadAG> it calls you a bonehead
Jan 08 23:19:35 <MohammadAG> hildon? maemo5?
Jan 08 23:19:45 <MohammadAG> never really checked, sorry
Jan 08 23:19:57 <dotblank> GAHH!
Jan 08 23:20:01 <MohammadAG> ArGGu^^, you can make a small CMDline app to print all available themes
Jan 08 23:20:03 <dotblank> WHAT is Up!
Jan 08 23:20:08 <dotblank> with the fing autobuilder
Jan 08 23:20:19 <ArGGu^^> hmm
Jan 08 23:20:29 <dotblank> seriously did everything I know how and it still won't render the qgraphics view
Jan 08 23:20:57 <dotblank> whoa... something is seriously wrong here
Jan 08 23:21:22 <ArGGu^^> I have made some tweaking in my irc client for the default theme, but it breaks things in other themes :S
Jan 08 23:21:41 <ArGGu^^> so I would like enable them only when the default theme is in use
Jan 08 23:21:42 <dotblank> ok I need an expert on this now
Jan 08 23:21:50 <MohammadAG> hmm, like what?
Jan 08 23:22:14 <ArGGu^^> MohammadAG are you asking what it breaks?
Jan 08 23:22:17 <dotblank> Either the extras assistant isn't working.. my debain tools isn't working
Jan 08 23:22:31 <dotblank> or the autobuilder is completely broken
Jan 08 23:22:32 <MohammadAG> yeah
Jan 08 23:22:37 <ArGGu^^> it makes some widgets look really bad :S
Jan 08 23:22:41 <MohammadAG> dotblank, what's up?
Jan 08 23:23:25 <dotblank> MohammadAG, ok I upload my .changes to the maemo extras assistant. it then compiles and imports the package
Jan 08 23:24:01 <dotblank> but the the output binaries are completely wrong
Jan 08 23:24:51 <MohammadAG> how wrong are we talking?
Jan 08 23:24:54 <dotblank> but its wrong in odd ways.. its like its ignoring my ui files or its not actually compiling the code i uploaded instead some older version
Jan 08 23:25:23 <dotblank> oh wait...
Jan 08 23:25:27 <dotblank> UI think i figured it out
Jan 08 23:25:45 <dotblank> the version numbers.. I had uplaoded 0.4-12
Jan 08 23:25:46 <DocScrutinizer> cat /etc/default/csd
Jan 08 23:26:02 <dotblank> but my earlier versions are 0.4-9
Jan 08 23:26:19 <MohammadAG> ArGGu^^, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qstylefactory.html#keys
Jan 08 23:26:19 <dotblank> so what happens.. is that its actually compiling or still using my older packages
Jan 08 23:26:33 <dotblank> I need to increment it to 0.5
Jan 08 23:26:50 <MohammadAG> you do know importing happens each 30 minutes right?
Jan 08 23:26:51 <dotblank> ah ha!
Jan 08 23:27:10 <MohammadAG> 0.4-12 should be fine
Jan 08 23:27:14 <DocScrutinizer> PLUGINDIR=/usr/lib/csd/plugins; ...; for PLUGIN in $PLUGINDIR/libcsd-*.so $PLUGINDIR/libcsd-*.so.1.0.0... >>/etc/event.d/csd
Jan 08 23:27:15 <MohammadAG> 12 > 5
Jan 08 23:27:27 <MohammadAG> err, 12 > 9
Jan 08 23:27:33 <dotblank> MohammadAG, http://maemo.org/packages/view/groove/
Jan 08 23:27:52 <dotblank> Go ahead and download the source package for groove the latest one
Jan 08 23:28:07 <dotblank> and compare it to the one available in the repos
Jan 08 23:29:02 <DocScrutinizer> mv /usr/lib/csd/plugins/libcsd-call.so  /usr/lib/csd/plugins/libcsd-call.so_disabled
Jan 08 23:29:15 <MohammadAG> umm
Jan 08 23:29:18 <MohammadAG> both are -14?
Jan 08 23:29:26 <DocScrutinizer> cya peeps
Jan 08 23:29:36 <dotblank> yea but if you compile my -14 in sbox
Jan 08 23:29:50 <dotblank> and compare it to the one in the repo
Jan 08 23:30:13 <dotblank> its like its two completely different programs.. I don't have funky ifdefs or anything like that
Jan 08 23:30:52 <dotblank> its like it untars the files then grabs the latest one with a simple alphabet filter
Jan 08 23:30:58 <dotblank> and uses that
Jan 08 23:31:05 <dotblank> but it never deleted my older version
Jan 08 23:31:40 <dotblank> like my program should segfault instead of being different
Jan 08 23:31:53 <MohammadAG> dotblank, sec
Jan 08 23:31:57 * MohammadAG changes batteries
Jan 08 23:32:00 <dotblank> if the elements arn't even working in the new version
Jan 08 23:32:15 <MohammadAG> dotblank, unrelated, but till my device boots, did you try getting sound working in silent mode?
Jan 08 23:32:29 <dotblank> MohammadAG, not yet
Jan 08 23:32:40 <dotblank> I've been working on playlist and other things
Jan 08 23:34:02 <MohammadAG> playlist?
Jan 08 23:34:25 <dotblank> for groove.. so you can see modify and add songs
Jan 08 23:38:21 <ArGGu^^> MohammadAG found a solution "/etc/hildon/theme/index.theme" file has the name of the theme that is in use. :)
Jan 08 23:39:04 <MohammadAG> ArGGu^^, ah, that
Jan 08 23:39:20 <MohammadAG> ArGGu^^, /etc/hildon/theme is a symlink to the current theme actually
Jan 08 23:39:28 <MohammadAG> that's  how my FOSS mediaplayer is themed already
Jan 08 23:39:38 <ArGGu^^> ok
Jan 08 23:40:23 <MohammadAG> dotblank, you might be able to edit the policy file, lots of apps do that
Jan 08 23:40:53 <MohammadAG> also, is your makefile cleaning up all binaries and .h ui files?
Jan 08 23:42:01 <dotblank> yea
Jan 08 23:42:42 <dotblank> the make file is auto-generated by qmake
Jan 08 23:42:55 <dotblank> and qmake is aware of all files used
Jan 08 23:42:55 <lcuk> has anyone seen March the 27th?
Jan 08 23:43:11 <MohammadAG> dotblank, yep, policy file works
Jan 08 23:43:37 <MohammadAG> [stream]
Jan 08 23:43:39 <MohammadAG> exe = groove
Jan 08 23:43:39 <MohammadAG> group = player
Jan 08 23:43:39 <dotblank> https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/groove_0.5-01/armel.build.log.OK.txt
Jan 08 23:43:51 <MohammadAG> adding that to /usr/share/policy/etc/current/pulse/xpolicy.conf allows playback in silent mode
Jan 08 23:46:44 <dotblank> MohammadAG, Awesome is there anyw ay you can do per file configuration like policy.d/
Jan 08 23:51:21 <dotblank> MohammadAG, actually I think you may be right about cleaning up
Jan 08 23:51:34 <dotblank> I think its not eleteing the old files from previous builds
Jan 08 23:51:48 <rtyler> bought my wife an Android-powered HTC G2 today
Jan 08 23:51:59 <rtyler> makes me really wish we had some better integration with web services in Maemo
Jan 08 23:52:05 * rtyler pukes all over GPE Calendar
Jan 08 23:52:17 <dotblank> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/builder1/maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel/work/groove-0.5/builddir'
Jan 08 23:52:49 <MohammadAG> dotblank, not sure, most apps just edit the file directly
Jan 08 23:53:40 <MohammadAG> dotblank, what's with the qmaemo5rotater class?
Jan 08 23:53:54 <MohammadAG> you can just set autorotation to true now with Qt +4.6.2
Jan 08 23:54:16 <dotblank> Yea I had some issues and there were bugs with it..
Jan 08 23:54:17 <MohammadAG> also, it kinda makes rotation messy, it always rotates even when the keyboard is closed
Jan 08 23:54:22 <dotblank> Don't know if its fixed now
Jan 08 23:55:16 <MohammadAG> dotblank, get rid of it
Jan 08 23:55:32 <MohammadAG> just use setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5Autorotation, true)
Jan 08 23:55:47 <dotblank> Alright, I'll see if I can do that.. I remeber setting autorotation didn't do everything
Jan 08 23:55:49 <MohammadAG> or was it Rotation
Jan 08 23:55:56 <MohammadAG> meh, Qt Creator will autocomplete
Jan 08 23:55:59 <dotblank> I used to use that method
Jan 08 23:56:01 <MohammadAG> hmm?
Jan 08 23:56:18 <MohammadAG> what do you mean by everything?
Jan 08 23:56:22 <dotblank> turns out it would bug out
Jan 08 23:56:38 <MohammadAG> it works for the foss mediaplayer and that does weird rotation magic with it :p
Jan 08 23:56:46 <MohammadAG> like relocating widgets and flipping layouts
Jan 08 23:56:53 <dotblank> maybe they fixed it in qt 4.7?
Jan 08 23:57:13 <MohammadAG> it's been working perfectly fine for me
Jan 08 23:57:35 <dotblank> It was such a long time ago, I can't exactly remeber why I couldn't use it
Jan 08 23:57:43 <dotblank> maybe I can since its all one window now
Jan 08 23:57:56 <MohammadAG> also, one suggestion
Jan 08 23:58:08 <MohammadAG> you could wrap this with ifdef Q_WS_MAEMO_5
Jan 08 23:58:16 <MohammadAG> could you disable horizontal scrolling?
Jan 08 23:58:59 <dotblank> alright I can try to disable it.. but I think it has more to do with kinetic srolling.. I thought most of everything was wrapped in that ifdef
Jan 08 23:59:10 <dotblank> everything buildds fine on my linux box
Jan 08 23:59:45 <dotblank> I forgot to disable the the horizontal scrollbar in the playlist
Jan 09 00:00:24 <dotblank> also I think I found a memory leak with QAbstarctTableModel data() function
Jan 09 00:00:33 <dotblank> in the playlist class
Jan 09 00:00:37 <MohammadAG> dude
Jan 09 00:00:45 <MohammadAG> that's an awesome portrait keyboard you have there
Jan 09 00:01:02 <dotblank> was that an insult?
Jan 09 00:01:07 <dotblank> because its very basic
Jan 09 00:01:07 <lcuk> GAN900, give sjgadsby a clip round the earlobe
Jan 09 00:01:15 <MohammadAG> no, it was a compliment
Jan 09 00:01:27 <dotblank> now I remember
Jan 09 00:01:29 <MohammadAG> it's actually very nice
Jan 09 00:01:40 <dotblank> thats why I couldn't use the qt attribute for rotation
Jan 09 00:01:49 <MohammadAG> why?
Jan 09 00:01:49 <dotblank> it bugged the dialog window out
Jan 09 00:02:05 <MohammadAG> oh, that shouldn't happen now, if the dialog is parented
Jan 09 00:02:13 <dotblank> when I flipped it back to normal and I exited the dialog it would revert back to portrait
Jan 09 00:02:17 <lardman_> night chaps
Jan 09 00:02:52 <MohammadAG> dotblank, make the dialog a parent of the window, and it should be fine
Jan 09 00:02:53 <dotblank> MohammadAG, which version of groove are you using? one you buiolt or from the package manager?
Jan 09 00:03:07 <MohammadAG> built one
Jan 09 00:03:11 <MohammadAG> err
Jan 09 00:03:13 <MohammadAG> from repos
Jan 09 00:03:18 <MohammadAG> actually, it's kinda old
Jan 09 00:03:22 * MohammadAG sends fresh deb
Jan 09 00:03:44 <dotblank> MohammadAG, I ahve a git
Jan 09 00:03:49 <dotblank> you can pull from
Jan 09 00:04:42 <MohammadAG> dotblank, got -14 installed
Jan 09 00:05:00 <dotblank> well if its fromt he repo that doesn't mean much
Jan 09 00:05:13 <dotblank> you are missing the playlist and progress bar and some accelerators
Jan 09 00:05:28 <dotblank> that *should* have been in the latest build
Jan 09 00:06:51 <MohammadAG> where's the git?
Jan 09 00:07:33 <dotblank> git clone https://vcs.maemo.org/git/groove
Jan 09 00:08:04 <dotblank> Also this build is the first time I subclassed a tablemodel
Jan 09 00:08:21 <dotblank> I noticed it was acting a bit sluggish
Jan 09 00:08:33 <dotblank> proabably memory leaking all over the place
Jan 09 00:08:54 <dotblank> should not have folowed the example from this qt book
Jan 09 00:15:31 <MohammadAG> I'm kinda pissed how maemo's repo doesn't work in the sdk
Jan 09 00:15:58 <MohammadAG> actually
Jan 09 00:16:02 <MohammadAG> it's failing outside the SDK too this time
Jan 09 00:16:13 <Gyjf> im kinda pissed about the sdk randomly stopped working
Jan 09 00:19:23 <dotblank> i'm kinda pissed how the autobuilder doesn't work
Jan 09 00:19:40 <dotblank> it STILL isn't right
Jan 09 00:20:41 <MohammadAG> dotblank, maemo.org's garage git page isn't even replying
Jan 09 00:20:53 <MohammadAG> error: server certificate verification failed. CAfile: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt CRLfile: none while accessing https://vcs.maemo.org/git/groove/info/refs
Jan 09 00:20:59 <MohammadAG> fatal: HTTP request failed
Jan 09 00:21:01 <dotblank> its like the autobuilder is like: lolwut? you want ui files, nah you don't need ui files and I'll just somehow create my own without causing your program to segfault
Jan 09 00:21:08 <dotblank> yea you ahve to git no ssl verify
Jan 09 00:21:23 <dotblank> export GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY=1
Jan 09 00:22:41 <dotblank> MohammadAG, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=915356#post915356
Jan 09 00:22:47 <dotblank> I uploaded a binary
Jan 09 00:23:44 <MohammadAG> QMetaObject::connectSlotsByName: No matching signal for on_list_clicked() dotblank
Jan 09 00:24:27 <dotblank> thats odd my sdk works with it
Jan 09 00:24:27 <rtyler> aw crap, maemo.org is resetting connections for me
Jan 09 00:24:43 <lcuk> you lose connetions, i lose days.
Jan 09 00:24:45 <lcuk> meh
Jan 09 00:25:00 <dotblank> maemo.org is very spotty
Jan 09 00:25:10 <dotblank> It takes a year to update my sdk
Jan 09 00:25:12 <rtyler> how many machines power it? just the one?
Jan 09 00:25:35 <dotblank> MohammadAG, is that when running or compiling
Jan 09 00:25:51 <MohammadAG> dotblank, sec, I'll try the latest source
Jan 09 00:29:16 <dotblank> ok it seems like just the .ui files are somehow outdated or invalid
Jan 09 00:29:30 <dotblank> or produces different names
Jan 09 00:30:39 <MohammadAG> dotblank, are you sured you removed ui* files before sending it?
Jan 09 00:31:53 <dotblank> well you don't remove the .ui files but you remove the autgenerated header files from the .ui files
Jan 09 00:32:03 <dotblank> qmake makes the ui_header.h
Jan 09 00:32:09 <dotblank> from the .ui
Jan 09 00:32:20 <MohammadAG> yes
Jan 09 00:32:33 <MohammadAG> I know :P
Jan 09 00:32:41 <MohammadAG> ui* doesn't include those, that would be *ui
Jan 09 00:33:37 <dotblank> whoa
Jan 09 00:33:42 <dotblank> you may be on to something
Jan 09 00:33:50 <dotblank> just noticed 3 ui* files
Jan 09 00:34:05 <MohammadAG> ui_*.h?
Jan 09 00:34:32 <dotblank> ui_bottombar.h
Jan 09 00:34:32 <dotblank> ui_topbar.h
Jan 09 00:34:33 <dotblank> ui_vkb.h
Jan 09 00:34:45 <dotblank> lol I thought those were not tracked by git
Jan 09 00:35:28 <MohammadAG> make clean before pushing
Jan 09 00:35:42 <rtyler> I wonder if I could donate some hosting resources to help make maemo.org suck less
Jan 09 00:35:43 <dotblank> odd...
Jan 09 00:35:45 <dotblank> really odd
Jan 09 00:35:50 <MohammadAG> if you're using Qt Creator, it copies files instead of building in the source dir, so use that ;)
Jan 09 00:36:11 <dotblank> they arn't tracked by git and make clean doesn't remove them
Jan 09 00:36:44 <MohammadAG> rtyler, talk to X-Fade
Jan 09 00:37:04 <rtyler> X-Fade: I have been instructed to bother you
Jan 09 00:37:38 <dotblank> MohammadAG, I think you may have found the issue
Jan 09 00:37:53 <dotblank> It turns out those exact files wern't getting cleaned up by make
Jan 09 00:38:00 <MohammadAG> weird, it should o_O
Jan 09 00:38:02 <dotblank> for some odd reason
Jan 09 00:38:10 <MohammadAG> if the ui files are in the .pro file
Jan 09 00:38:16 <MohammadAG> qmake; make clean should remove them
Jan 09 00:38:26 <dotblank> well after manually deleting them
Jan 09 00:38:34 <dotblank> then running qmake make and make clean
Jan 09 00:38:41 <dotblank> everything was fine
Jan 09 00:39:09 <MohammadAG> I suppose me helping you earns me a free song from grooveshark
Jan 09 00:39:13 <MohammadAG> oh wait... :p
Jan 09 00:42:08 <dotblank> I can finally upload a working .changes file now
Jan 09 01:08:55 <dotblank> hmm having a Qicon in a mdoelview seems to really slow things down
Jan 09 01:09:01 <dotblank> modelview*
Jan 09 01:12:33 <mikki-kun> hm, have the tracker-database files changed their place where they used to be?
Jan 09 01:13:02 <mikki-kun> and if not, can somebody tell me how they were named?
Jan 09 01:13:09 <lcuk> dotblank, for which part is the slowness coming?
Jan 09 01:14:00 <lcuk> is it extracting the icon data from the model, or mere fact you have an icon on the view?
Jan 09 01:14:22 <dotblank> lcuk, I can't exactly place it but my custom QAbstractTableModel is very sluggish in the tableview
Jan 09 01:14:23 <lcuk> (ie, is it as slow if you have a single static icon that does not change to data)
Jan 09 01:14:32 <dotblank> I think its because the fact the icon is three
Jan 09 01:14:35 <dotblank> there
Jan 09 01:14:59 <lcuk> does it require conversion to extract it out of your model?
Jan 09 01:14:59 <dotblank> I made it so on each data request it pulls a pointer to the qvariant holding the icon
Jan 09 01:15:04 <lcuk> ahh
Jan 09 01:15:10 <dotblank> so its not like its loading a new icon everytime it fetches data
Jan 09 01:15:29 <lcuk> and what is the native data type it then gets converted to?
Jan 09 01:15:35 <lcuk> a QImage?
Jan 09 01:16:23 <dotblank> its just a .png file in a qrc file.. I construct the icon in the constructor of the class and a build a qvariant on the data request
Jan 09 01:17:01 <lcuk> why do you use QVariant if the datatype is known?
Jan 09 01:17:27 <dotblank> well I have to return Qvaraint to fit the abstract table model implementation
Jan 09 01:17:49 <dotblank> QVariant playlist::data(const QModelIndex &index, int role) const
Jan 09 01:18:02 <dotblank>  if(play->currentplaying()==index.row())
Jan 09 01:18:02 <dotblank>                     dat = QVariant(*play->icon);
Jan 09 01:18:22 <dotblank> I wonder if its converting the icon into somethign usable by QVariant each time
Jan 09 01:18:57 <lcuk> well to work that out, store it as a qvariant inside play object
Jan 09 01:19:11 <lcuk> but theres other heavy things going on there
Jan 09 01:19:12 <dotblank> yup, was just about to do that
Jan 09 01:19:51 <dotblank> http://pastebin.com/PcLf9XtY
Jan 09 01:20:06 <dotblank> maybe there is something really time consuming going on
Jan 09 01:21:06 <lcuk> dotblank, how many times does ::data(...) get called?  once per *visible* cell on screen at that time?
Jan 09 01:21:19 <lcuk> or once per visible uninitialised cell?
Jan 09 01:21:38 <lcuk> (ie, does it cache the cell data whilst its on screen
Jan 09 01:21:52 <dotblank> when ever the tableModel updates.. it seems when a show() or anytime asomeone clicks the individual cell
Jan 09 01:21:58 <dotblank> its slowest during dragging
Jan 09 01:22:05 <lcuk> yeah for sure
Jan 09 01:22:20 <dotblank> I also think it may be related to edit mode trying to call drag methods and thats not there
Jan 09 01:22:22 <lcuk> so it is intelligent enough to only request visual items
Jan 09 01:22:43 <dotblank> lcuk, yea I think so
Jan 09 01:22:49 <lcuk> ie on a 10k list it only wants data from 25 visible rows
Jan 09 01:22:55 <lcuk> or similar
Jan 09 01:23:12 <MohammadAG> dotblank, try using a QPixmap
Jan 09 01:23:13 <dotblank> lcuk, yea and you can actually send an update signal to tell the model to update modelindexes
Jan 09 01:23:40 <MohammadAG> actually, sec
Jan 09 01:24:02 <MohammadAG> have a look at http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/nowplayingindicator.cpp
Jan 09 01:24:15 <MohammadAG> it does a repaint every 100ms, and doesn't slow down scrolling
Jan 09 01:24:29 <MohammadAG> though I'm sure you're not doing it every 100ms
Jan 09 01:24:58 <dotblank> I think whats really going on is that I didn't have edit mode off on my tableview
Jan 09 01:25:07 <dotblank> so its trying to send edit methods
Jan 09 01:25:31 <dotblank> and because of kinetic scrolling drag and drop is really slow/buggy
Jan 09 01:25:39 <lcuk> its probably just qt being a bitch
Jan 09 01:25:57 <dotblank> well it doesn't happen with QStandardItemModels
Jan 09 01:26:01 <lcuk> any chance you could make a simple testcase highlighting this
Jan 09 01:26:17 <dotblank> well I think its my fault
Jan 09 01:26:36 <lcuk> MohammadAG, why are you only refreshing 1/10 second?
Jan 09 01:26:42 <lcuk> instead of on demand
Jan 09 01:26:47 <dotblank> or the QVariant really doesn't support QIcon and each time it calls QVaraint(QIcon()) it does some conversion
Jan 09 01:26:50 <MohammadAG> lcuk, cause it's animated
Jan 09 01:27:12 <jef91> Anyone had any luck getting yahoo! mail working on the n900?
Jan 09 01:27:22 <jef91> Tried a couple methods I've found online and yet to have one work
Jan 09 01:28:27 <dotblank> does yahoo support imap?
Jan 09 01:28:35 <jef91> No idea.
Jan 09 01:28:47 <jef91> Girlfriend's POS email account. Wish she would change to gmail xD
Jan 09 01:29:12 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk: huh?
Jan 09 01:29:54 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, he Thanked! my facepalm post :P
Jan 09 01:32:16 <dotblank> lcuk, I tried some of the changes
Jan 09 01:32:18 <dotblank> no dice
Jan 09 01:32:19 <pupnik> any of you remember an xkbd layout with arrow keys?
Jan 09 01:32:46 <lcuk> dotblank, try just not assigning icon for a test
Jan 09 01:35:44 <dotblank> lcuk, ok just did.. the icon doesn't seem to effect it at all
Jan 09 01:35:47 <dotblank> its something.. else
Jan 09 01:35:53 <AndrewX192> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1103286387.png !
Jan 09 01:36:15 <dotblank> brb I smell something burning
Jan 09 01:36:18 <lcuk> dotblank, simple testcase is best.  remove the problem from the bulk of your code
Jan 09 01:36:21 <lcuk> eek
Jan 09 01:41:14 <dotblank> back
Jan 09 01:41:26 <dotblank> well looks like i'll have to work this out later
Jan 09 01:41:47 <dotblank> thanks for all your help lcuk and MohammadAG
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 09 02:59:58 2011