**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 10 02:59:58 2011 Jan 10 03:00:30 I am just trying to cut down on the amount of crud I have to carry with the n900 Jan 10 03:01:03 spare battery, charger, data cable, earphones...... Jan 10 03:01:18 I have the belken micro 12vdc automobile plug charger, it's very dumb Jan 10 03:01:24 does not cross data lines, so N900 does not charge Jan 10 03:01:49 right now I've hacked up a USB-A male to microUSB male cord with data lines crossed Jan 10 03:02:06 it's nice but doesn't let me use that cable for data, so yeah Jan 10 03:02:08 pity nokia didn't supply a simple USB/mains charger instead of the cable attached one Jan 10 03:02:19 lucent: why not open, and bridge the charger? Jan 10 03:02:35 jpinx-eeepc: yeah - I borked my n900 charger Jan 10 03:02:38 I was gonna say -opening the charger must be easier ;) Jan 10 03:02:47 SpeedEvil: that's a great idea, but I think, what if I am somewhere with friends and want to use their charger, and it is dumb? Jan 10 03:02:50 jpinx-eeepc: The end got wet, and went green. Jan 10 03:02:59 lucent: fair enough. Jan 10 03:03:04 * SpeedEvil uses a script. Jan 10 03:03:15 * jpinx-eeepc contemplates opening the nokia charger aand gluing in a USB socket ;) Jan 10 03:03:16 * SpeedEvil wants to make a nice portable charger, but can't. Jan 10 03:03:42 I think other phone users have this same problem, I can be the answer-man in a crisis now :) Jan 10 03:04:05 notably I think Blackberry phones were refusing to charge unless data lines are crossed Jan 10 03:04:09 Something n900ish shaped - you unfold two arms from the long edges, and it hinges out to form a A Jan 10 03:04:20 SpeedEvil: oh? Jan 10 03:04:24 you place this on the floor, and then step on it 100-200 times vigourously. Jan 10 03:04:38 You then close it up, and use it to charge your phone. Jan 10 03:04:49 Annoyingly, the mechanical aspects of this are tricky. Jan 10 03:04:59 it took me a moment to realize you're not talking about destruction via boot stomp Jan 10 03:05:03 SpeedEvil: you can get recharge solutions that use rechargeable AA batteries Jan 10 03:05:10 jpinx-eeepc: yeah - I know. Jan 10 03:05:24 jpinx-eeepc: speaking of, do you use any? I may be looking for one Jan 10 03:05:29 2 x AA give about half a charge to the n900 Jan 10 03:05:40 jpinx-eeepc: I mean something that can generate 5Wh or so of power in a few minutes of effort. Jan 10 03:05:49 * ShadowJK uses a tekkeon mp1550 occasionally (2x or 4x AA) Jan 10 03:05:54 jpinx-eeepc: In a compact container that is reusable arbitrarily. Jan 10 03:05:54 finding a 13.8vdc input and 5vdc usb output -without- the car adapter is tricky Jan 10 03:06:06 * jpinx-eeepc would contemplate a sloar charger Jan 10 03:06:21 *solar --- even.. Jan 10 03:06:22 Solar chargers don't work well in some places. Jan 10 03:06:27 I've got a solar rig here, right Jan 10 03:06:37 * SpeedEvil is in a scottish winter. Jan 10 03:06:42 12 hrs sunshine here without fail ;) Jan 10 03:06:42 automobile plugs "cigarette lighter" are so unreliable, I want to switch over to powerpole andersen connectors Jan 10 03:06:56 I opened up a car adapter to add nicer connector Jan 10 03:07:11 ShadowJK: interesting, how'd that go? Jan 10 03:08:04 most of the trouble with carchargers is in the wobble factor -- they make the plugs too long Jan 10 03:08:08 it was just a little circuit board inside, lots of plastic, a fuse and spring Jan 10 03:08:47 a wire soldered onto spring and another soldered onto the side terminal (only on one side) Jan 10 03:08:50 * jpinx-eeepc has a toshiba laptop carcharger 12v in - 15 volt out ;) Jan 10 03:11:07 wonder how it's going with the host mode USB too, if we are able to charge and do host mode at the same time Jan 10 03:11:29 there is host usb mode ? Jan 10 03:11:52 yes, in fact I've used it successfully Jan 10 03:12:07 lucent: I'd love to use the mobile internet on the laptop... Jan 10 03:12:24 oh, but that is already possible without host mode, no? Jan 10 03:12:31 charge and host mode is quite seperate Jan 10 03:12:32 lucent: no Jan 10 03:12:41 there are no constraints between the two Jan 10 03:13:36 I don't think your laptop can act as gadget anyway? Jan 10 03:13:58 I have PCMode working well, vnc to control the n900 from the eeepc and I can use the eeepc internet fort he n900., but I can not use the n900 mobile internet connection in the eeepc Jan 10 03:14:11 jpinx-eeepc: please explain in more detail, do you want to use the N900 internet access from your laptop? Jan 10 03:14:29 lucent: yes Jan 10 03:14:34 yeah that's not related to usb host mode Jan 10 03:14:52 sounds like you want mobilehotspot Jan 10 03:14:58 bbl Jan 10 03:15:10 I think this is already possible, and configuration is *very* dependent on the OS used from your laptop Jan 10 03:15:12 what's mobilehotspot ? Jan 10 03:15:20 When I plug in my N900 normally I pick pc suite mode, N900 presents a serial port to the OS, and I can do regular hayes at and PPP to "dial up" gprs Jan 10 03:15:31 jpinx-eeepc: plug n900 into eeepc, connect it as a regular 3G modem Jan 10 03:15:32 lucent: eeepc running debian stable Jan 10 03:15:34 'just works' Jan 10 03:15:41 yeah what SpeedEvil says Jan 10 03:15:46 mobilehotspot are settings to make N900 offer its internet connection over Ad-Hoc wifi.... not very good, but it does work if you need it Jan 10 03:16:06 jpinx-eeepc, its in the repo (uses kernel-power i think, and turns the device into an ap routed over 3g) Jan 10 03:16:20 nox--: gotcha ;) Jan 10 03:16:21 not true, no AP support Jan 10 03:16:27 oh Jan 10 03:16:29 just to clarify, it's Ad-Hoc and not AP Jan 10 03:16:30 But practically - you need to plug in power if you're using it as a hotspot Jan 10 03:16:32 what is it, adhoc? Jan 10 03:16:35 ok Jan 10 03:16:45 I really wish it were AP :) Jan 10 03:16:45 And if you need to do that, you may as well use USB and not bother Jan 10 03:17:18 heh Jan 10 03:17:27 indeed Jan 10 03:17:30 SpeedEvil: if I use the usb connection the n900 is charging, can I use the n900 as a gprs modem Jan 10 03:17:50 select pc suite mode when it asks, charging continues anyway Jan 10 03:17:57 ShadowJK: yes Jan 10 03:18:06 and yes Jan 10 03:18:16 that all works now, but I can not see any way to get the n900 to act as a modem Jan 10 03:18:51 how would you normally setup a 3G modem dongle? Jan 10 03:18:53 Do that Jan 10 03:19:00 * lucent agrees Jan 10 03:19:01 * jpinx-eeepc has never done that Jan 10 03:19:03 should work Jan 10 03:19:09 it acts as modem in pc suite mode Jan 10 03:19:22 oh not as a usb network device? Jan 10 03:19:32 no Jan 10 03:19:41 aside, USA people if you want host mode, I bought my adapter $5usd shipped from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BSN4UY Jan 10 03:19:44 works perfect Jan 10 03:19:46 ah so usb has three modes... Jan 10 03:19:47 I use it a a networking device for the eeepc connetion and vnc, etc Jan 10 03:20:17 or four if you count flashing :) Jan 10 03:20:26 anyway im off Jan 10 03:21:09 me wonders how to use a USB modem from an eeepc running debian stable Jan 10 03:21:19 ACTION  Jan 10 03:21:51 i never tested this but maybe it helps? http://www.sakis3g.org/ Jan 10 03:22:18 nox--: my n900 connects by gprs - not 3g Jan 10 03:22:47 hmm, guess you could still try it... Jan 10 03:22:57 looking ;) Jan 10 03:23:13 the majority of at commands are probably the same Jan 10 03:23:14 jpinx-eeepc: find other eeepc users who connect gprs, take their advice - I think Jan 10 03:24:57 lucent: ;) Jan 10 03:25:21 it's on tomorrows list then - I'll report back ;) Jan 10 03:25:41 i guess debian stable users is more important, usb is usb... Jan 10 03:25:56 I've used "PC connectivity" mode on my N900 and connected to it as a modem from an Ubuntu computer, the trick for Ubuntu is using Network Manager connection wizard Jan 10 03:26:47 there's a few steps and one of them is to set which carrier I use, this changes the modem init strings sent to the N900-as-a-modem Jan 10 03:27:13 without Network Manager, I don't know what to suggest because I'm not an eeepc user Jan 10 03:27:39 why is the eepc important, isnt it more debian stable vs ubuntu? Jan 10 03:28:41 lucent: I have wicd network manager, but it is only showing the wifi and the ethernet connections, no USB.. Jan 10 03:28:44 s/the eepc/the fact that its an eepc/ Jan 10 03:28:44 nox-- meant: why is the fact that its an eepc important, isnt it more debian stable vs ubuntu? Jan 10 03:28:45 the communities are different, and I think you'll have the best self-help by searching eeepc community for advice Jan 10 03:28:58 heh ok Jan 10 03:29:27 Ubuntu community will tell you where to shove that cute little computer, right? they're so bad Jan 10 03:29:37 hahaha Jan 10 03:29:44 loud and obnoxious sometimes makes me think Ubuntu community is feral Jan 10 03:37:14 any Python junkies? I wonder how to wait until 5 minutes has elapsed in a maemo friendly Python script Jan 10 03:37:47 Does it not have an obvious sleep function..? Jan 10 03:38:29 well it's not doing anything else while sleep is active, so I want to store the date time and keep checking until 5 minutes plus that initial value has elapsed Jan 10 03:38:57 taking that GPS example above I want to keep trying for 5 minutes to get a fix then spit out the lat / lon co-ordinates to console and quit Jan 10 03:39:22 Oh. In that case, does it not have an easy unix timestamp function? Jan 10 03:40:39 should be obvious to find, but I'm seeing examples only for parsing existing dates Jan 10 03:41:05 unless... "datetime.now()" Jan 10 05:13:32 I am installing amsn and it asks for TLS. The options for downloading/installing the module include Linux SPARC. Is that the right one, ćos it's not working after installing and setting the path. Jan 10 05:24:11 jpinx-eeepc, you have tls installed, amsn is just looking in the wrong path Jan 10 05:24:36 apparently, it's hardcoded to /usr while the modules are in /opt Jan 10 05:24:53 MohammadAG: Hmm - I set the path in amsn to /opt/tls/lib Jan 10 05:25:04 hmm, interesting Jan 10 05:25:46 brb, upgrading nvidia crap Jan 10 05:25:52 k Jan 10 05:39:12 MohammadAG: fwiw when I checked there is no /opt/tls/* :( it's /opt/tcltls/* But even on setting that and restarting amsn it's not firing up Jan 10 05:39:56 there are modules in /opt/tcltls/lib, but I have nfc if they are the right ones Jan 10 05:41:47 libtls.so.0 libtls1.50.so tls1.50 Jan 10 06:08:53 I don't suppose there is a way (even a half baked, unfinished, work in progress way) of running symbian apps on maemo? Jan 10 06:15:48 Lantizia, no Jan 10 06:16:41 no symbian emulator perhaps exist whether official or not... compiled for maemo or not? Jan 10 06:25:03 did you google? Jan 10 06:26:04 the only emulator that exists is for windows Jan 10 06:26:07 and that's for devs Jan 10 07:22:27 anyone get dosbox with arm dynamic recompiler to build? Jan 10 07:57:07 MohammadAG: got amsn working :) Jan 10 07:57:57 noodles900, how? :) Jan 10 07:58:17 I need to update the package, and I don't really have the time to look over it Jan 10 07:58:38 there's a how to in the forum Jan 10 07:59:25 amsn-project.net/download.php Jan 10 08:01:14 that adds the repo, then you do apt-get update to install the amsn, and apt-get install tcl-tls Jan 10 08:01:23 MohammadAG: that make sense? Jan 10 08:01:59 not really Jan 10 08:02:09 that's the old aMSN :/ Jan 10 08:02:15 well it worked ;) Jan 10 08:02:30 well, that's not my goal as the packager :P Jan 10 08:02:34 I had to tweak some preferences re-frontcam Jan 10 08:02:48 video doesn't work afaik Jan 10 08:03:31 I appreciate that your trying to make a .deb - but I'm afriad I have nfc about that Jan 10 08:03:57 no - there is no video call - something about msn changinng the sip protocol Jan 10 08:05:26 MohammadAG: here's the webpage I followed... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67378&page=3 Jan 10 08:06:19 sorry -- noodles900 is my n900 ;) Jan 10 08:43:12 umm...one thing I forgot to backup when I updated...I had created a shortcut to start osso-xterm so that I can have many of them in separate windows (and running bash). someone remembers how it was supposed to be done so that it doesn't just hang and close if you already have one open? Jan 10 08:43:33 I made a shortcut to "osso-xterm -e 'bash -l'" but that wasn't enough Jan 10 08:43:50 I think I was supposed to run that a bit differently.. Jan 10 09:06:05 well... osso-xterm "osso-xterm 'bash -l'" seems to work :) Jan 10 09:06:50 though acts a bit funny, sometimes the window seems to appear, then disappear and then appear Jan 10 09:07:11 I probably had something different before Jan 10 09:07:19 joga, thats normal for humans, its caused by blinking. Jan 10 09:07:47 no this is not that, it goes to task switcher and shows a windows disappearing, then appearing again Jan 10 09:07:53 *a window Jan 10 09:08:12 like it starts, kills itself and then becomes visible Jan 10 09:08:32 but the command line is a bit convoluted, in a way :) Jan 10 09:08:43 does it work when you do it manually Jan 10 09:10:13 if I simply run "osso-xterm bash -l" in a terminal, it works properly every time, it simply gives me a new window with no glimpse of task switcher at any point Jan 10 09:10:41 if I put that into a shortcut, it won't start more than one window Jan 10 09:11:02 if I prepend it with osso-xterm, then I get the funny though harmless behaviour Jan 10 09:11:17 I had this setup before I updated but forgot how it was :) Jan 10 09:11:38 (stuff like this was the reason I didn't update before) Jan 10 09:20:26 joga: The vim package has a shortcut which launches a new osso-xterm with a particular process & title. Jan 10 09:20:38 ok, I'll check that, have it installed.. Jan 10 09:21:11 k...it says /usr/bin/vim.launch --xterm ... hmm Jan 10 09:21:28 sounds familiar for some reason, maybe because I also made a special shortcut for vim Jan 10 09:21:31 :) Jan 10 09:22:02 joga: vim.launch is a shell script Jan 10 09:22:18 yeah, and it seems it just runs osso-xterm "$0" "$@" Jan 10 09:22:23 jo ga, thats normal for humans, its caused by blinking. LMFAO Jan 10 09:22:25 if --xterm is defined Jan 10 09:22:48 I wonder if I had some script too..hmm Jan 10 09:23:58 nah...well, I try something Jan 10 09:27:21 ok, making the shortcut execute sh -c "osso-xterm bash -l" works Jan 10 09:28:09 * joga tries to fit mental note in some corner of dusty brain Jan 10 09:30:49 joga: does it open a 2nd terminal if one is already open? Jan 10 09:31:01 pupnik, yes, as many as you want Jan 10 09:31:14 (which is what I want) Jan 10 09:31:28 i had a hack to do that from xterm icon Jan 10 09:31:39 instead of re-opening the existing terminal Jan 10 09:31:56 the primary reason I want this is that last time I checked, changing default shell was a bricking operation, so I just make the shortcut give me bash Jan 10 09:32:30 I just leave the default terminal shortcut be and made a new one called "bash terminal" Jan 10 09:32:34 :) Jan 10 09:33:01 so I guess the keyboard shortcut will give me the normal one, but I don't use the shortcut anyway Jan 10 09:33:12 it's so awkward to press Jan 10 09:33:45 hmm! Jan 10 09:33:55 what is? Jan 10 09:33:55 actually, now it doesn't seem to work anymore o_o Jan 10 09:34:02 grr Jan 10 09:34:05 ctrl-shift-x Jan 10 09:34:09 how the hell do I turn off the screen Jan 10 09:34:12 (without mce) Jan 10 09:34:19 ah Jan 10 09:34:22 MohammadAG: you're greedy Jan 10 09:34:26 ise SHORTCUTD app Jan 10 09:34:37 or, uh...now it works again...weird...need to examine a bit Jan 10 09:34:48 and put the shortcut any hardware bytton you want Jan 10 09:34:48 timeless_mbp, I know, now how do I do that :P Jan 10 09:34:59 lolloo I have other uses for the hardware buttons Jan 10 09:35:05 heh. i don't know =b Jan 10 09:35:16 use half press camera button for it Jan 10 09:35:41 I use halfpress camera button to convert to polrtrait mode Jan 10 09:35:52 for any app I want! Jan 10 09:36:04 ok weird...it seems that if I don't have any terminals open the following will happen: first terminal starts up okay, the second doesn't and just kinda hangs there for a few seconds trying to start it, but after that it works fine again Jan 10 09:36:13 I wish I remembered how I had it set up before! :) Jan 10 09:36:32 joga, do you have incoming ssh connections? Jan 10 09:36:36 flux, no Jan 10 09:36:47 how would that affect starting xterm? Jan 10 09:36:54 echo 1 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-004a/twl4030_keypad/disable_kp disables the keyboard Jan 10 09:36:59 each one session eats one virtual tty Jan 10 09:37:14 and there are four of them available Jan 10 09:37:18 ehh? Jan 10 09:37:29 why is there a limit of *four* in virtual ttys Jan 10 09:37:33 no idea Jan 10 09:37:37 and I just had like 8 terminals open Jan 10 09:37:38 echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/omap2_mcspi.1/spi1.0/disable_ts disables the touchscreen, but it's still on Jan 10 09:37:43 really? Jan 10 09:37:53 joga, do you have the standard kernel? Jan 10 09:38:08 no, powerkernel, but I had this thing work before that, I'm pretty sure Jan 10 09:38:39 Flux: does -anyone- really use stock kernel, these days? Even if you aren't OCing, it's so full of features... Jan 10 09:38:53 now I have 16 terminals open Jan 10 09:38:55 robbiethe1st, well, my gf uses.. Jan 10 09:39:05 Upgrade her! Jan 10 09:39:06 N900? Jan 10 09:39:16 omg Jan 10 09:39:30 RobbieThe1st, custom kernel for me :P Jan 10 09:40:07 :P - True. But heck, that's probably closer to power kernel than stock, right? Jan 10 09:40:59 Out of curiosity - Does your custom kernel give you any better performance? What did you tweak? Jan 10 09:41:18 hardware_sync Jan 10 09:41:28 use the GPU Jan 10 09:41:38 for graphics accel Jan 10 09:42:29 Which is in what kernel, lolloo? Jan 10 09:42:37 46 Jan 10 09:42:49 Oh. That explains why things seemed faster... Jan 10 09:43:10 made my screen faster and chagning between apps alot faster, Jan 10 09:43:25 Yea. Jan 10 09:43:27 RobbieThe1st, nothing, just added a shitload of modules :P Jan 10 09:43:34 because its set to disbale not to use gpu by default Jan 10 09:44:10 what is it exactly Jan 10 09:47:17 Hildon acceleration: this mod modify the file /etc/powervr.d/hildon-desktop.ini, setting the value to 1 and activating the hardware synchronization . Jan 10 09:48:18 it's set to 0 by default. and now switiching between apps is much smoother! Jan 10 09:48:46 uh Jan 10 09:48:52 it always uses the GPU... Jan 10 09:48:55 that's something else Jan 10 09:49:08 and that's not vsync, if that's what you're thinking Jan 10 09:49:27 why is it now less jerky? Jan 10 09:49:34 and super fluid Jan 10 09:49:55 enable blurs, you're think otherwise Jan 10 09:49:59 you'll* Jan 10 09:49:59 I'm gonna try that when I get my replacement screen... Jan 10 09:50:02 it's not vsync Jan 10 09:50:02 I thought the GPU started kicking. Jan 10 09:50:20 nope, it's just giving each frame the time it needs Jan 10 09:50:29 instead of having all frames using the same amount of time Jan 10 09:50:34 or something like that Jan 10 09:50:38 That's a good idea. Jan 10 09:50:41 it makes my desktop crash a lot, so I disabled it Jan 10 09:50:41 aha Jan 10 09:50:57 day 1 still no crash. Jan 10 09:51:16 awesome info btw. Jan 10 09:53:59 javispedro said it's the iPhone way of doing transitions Jan 10 09:55:02 I just used transitioncontrol to put all transitions to "1" Jan 10 09:55:17 I don't care to see animations of things I want to happen *now* Jan 10 09:55:18 how do I re-arrange my desktop Icons by name on N900? Jan 10 09:55:24 heh Jan 10 09:56:05 you know, you could edit hildon-desktop to disable transitions all in all Jan 10 09:56:26 I keep it in rotation Jan 10 09:56:52 (not sure why...I hardly ever use the feature anyway= Jan 10 09:58:21 how can I do it ? Jan 10 10:01:04 lolloo: i don't think you can Jan 10 10:01:48 lolloo: the only tool i know relating to the desktop thing is Tweakr Jan 10 10:01:55 and that merely lets you control spacing Jan 10 10:01:57 oops! strange. it was arranging it automatically before I arranged it by hand!! Jan 10 10:02:15 when you add something, it automatically finds the next free spot Jan 10 10:02:19 he can Jan 10 10:02:27 he needs to edit major parts of hildon-desktop's code Jan 10 10:02:31 ... Jan 10 10:02:36 :P Jan 10 10:02:38 well, yeah, i guess since it's open source... Jan 10 10:02:41 touche Jan 10 10:03:06 lolloo: write out the list of things you want in the order you want, remove everything, add them back in the order you want :) Jan 10 10:03:11 was it hard to add layouts to the Nokia mediaplayer and make it portrait? :P Jan 10 10:03:13 (it'll be faster than MohammadAG 's proposal) Jan 10 10:03:36 MohammadAG: getting anything changed if it involves a frozen UI spec is hard by definition :) Jan 10 10:03:55 timeless_mbp, I meant before M5 actually hit the public Jan 10 10:03:56 * timeless_mbp sighs Jan 10 10:04:09 MohammadAG: ui specs froze *long* before it became public :) Jan 10 10:04:45 MohammadAG: oh cute Jan 10 10:04:50 that's your solution to the problem Jan 10 10:05:11 as you're well aware, the media player wallpaper is landscape and doesn't support portrait Jan 10 10:05:30 oh, so that's why they disabled it Jan 10 10:05:34 * MohammadAG headbangs Jan 10 10:05:42 was it hard to do a similar approach to mine? Jan 10 10:05:42 MohammadAG: i haven't checked (and don't plan to) Jan 10 10:05:53 but offhand .. it's probably among the reasons Jan 10 10:06:09 btw, your thing feels wrong in portrait Jan 10 10:06:13 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out why Jan 10 10:06:59 MohammadAG: your media player in portrait has the selection track the finger Jan 10 10:07:13 err, what? Jan 10 10:07:34 in Select contact (phone, portrait), if you tap on an item and drag your finger north, the selection is lost (intentionally) Jan 10 10:07:49 whereas in yours, if i tap on Shuffle and drag north to Songs, the selection follows my finger Jan 10 10:08:01 file a bug against Qt Jan 10 10:08:18 yes, that's also Qt Jan 10 10:08:30 please file? Jan 10 10:08:40 I hate their bugtracker :P Jan 10 10:09:07 you think I like it? Jan 10 10:09:17 file it in bugs.maemo.org instead Jan 10 10:09:23 get someone else to move it :) Jan 10 10:09:28 lol Jan 10 10:09:31 iirc they have a Qt component Jan 10 10:09:37 which means they're totally fair game Jan 10 10:09:52 MohammadAG: this is how downstreams work! Jan 10 10:09:57 user reports bug to app vendor Jan 10 10:10:02 app vendor reports bug to distro Jan 10 10:10:08 distro reports bug to component author Jan 10 10:10:15 heh Jan 10 10:10:21 did you check the last nightly? Jan 10 10:10:24 no Jan 10 10:10:30 do you support autoupdate? :) Jan 10 10:10:49 hehe Jan 10 10:11:16 * timeless_mbp points to shiny user hat Jan 10 10:11:43 if [ -f mediaplayer ]; then rm -f mediaplayer; fi; wget http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer; chmod +x mediaplayer; ./mediaplayer Jan 10 10:11:51 there's auto update for ya Jan 10 10:12:21 btw, can you get about to include the build date? Jan 10 10:12:32 otherwise i'm going to file bugs based on a random undated build :( Jan 10 10:12:38 that'd be interesting Jan 10 10:12:46 * MohammadAG wonders how Jan 10 10:13:10 gecko's build system more or less causes DATE to be stringified as a -D define Jan 10 10:13:56 found it Jan 10 10:15:00 hmm, shouldn't __DATE__ and __TIME__ handle it? Jan 10 10:26:19 you can use that Jan 10 10:26:21 we don't Jan 10 10:26:31 because the format for that isn't quite how we want a format Jan 10 10:27:19 can anyone spot the bug in http://notabug.com/2002/coherent/man/_5F5Fdate.html ? Jan 10 10:36:07 * crashanddie facepalms Jan 10 10:36:30 * crashanddie just discovered that a few years ago, some dev created the "name" table in one of our databases as a "blob" Jan 10 10:36:46 so that he could store UTF-16 for "weird characters" in it. Jan 10 10:36:46 timeless_mbp: there is a missing string terminator. Jan 10 10:36:53 nomis++ Jan 10 10:37:11 two actually :) Jan 10 10:37:23 well, only one per compile time :) Jan 10 10:37:30 but at least it's consistent... Jan 10 10:37:45 and missing a \n as well... What's the point of that 0 though? Jan 10 10:37:48 crashanddie: utf-8 encoding is right? Jan 10 10:38:06 i.e. encode it before sticking it in the db..? Jan 10 10:38:11 crashanddie: my guess is that 0 is " unshifted on some keyboard Jan 10 10:38:16 not sure which keyboard that is Jan 10 10:38:23 Also, what's with: "ANSI C? ANSI C? Yes(%d)" Jan 10 10:39:25 crashanddie: don't trust everything you read on the internet :) Jan 10 10:54:29 timeless_mbp, update binary to include build date and time Jan 10 10:54:33 updated* Jan 10 10:54:47 actually, it's still copying, so don't try to download it Jan 10 10:55:06 bonus points for a button to download a newer version in the about dialog ;-) Jan 10 10:56:08 timeless_mbp, now you're pushing it lol Jan 10 10:56:31 MohammadAG: browsers and most mac apps pre app store did that :) Jan 10 10:56:45 timeless_mbp, this isn't even the final about box :p Jan 10 10:56:45 morning Jan 10 10:56:59 sure sure, but; it's the only one you've got =b Jan 10 11:00:36 * MohammadAG ponders finalizing the about dialog Jan 10 11:00:41 timeless_mbp, microB lacks an about dialog Jan 10 11:01:06 anyway, I'm off to the brits' council Jan 10 11:01:07 MohammadAG: apps included in the system are not allowed to have them Jan 10 11:01:08 bbl Jan 10 11:01:13 we have about: as a web page Jan 10 11:01:22 which is a sneaky thing to work around system policy :) Jan 10 11:01:42 (you're supposed to visit settings>about for "information about system apps") Jan 10 11:01:56 wow Jan 10 11:02:00 never knew about about: Jan 10 11:02:23 funny that Symbian^3 has an about in the music player Jan 10 11:02:27 I guess they changed the policy Jan 10 11:02:29 bbl Jan 10 11:36:37 nomis: I wont install any of this hildon-desktop python crap ever again, give a shout when there is a proper build pls Jan 10 11:37:26 chem|st, ? Jan 10 11:39:18 yacc: it was/is/will cause trouble as a single "widget" can make it eat up your ram no matter how good your widget is programmed Jan 10 11:42:27 yacc: actualy it made hildon-desktop go mad and I had a hard time on that topic Jan 10 11:58:02 chem|st: yeah, that python plugin stuff seems dodgy. Jan 10 11:58:56 chem|st: I was looking around for a non-scratchbox based toolchain, but I guess I have to resort to on-device compilation. Jan 10 11:59:34 (or I bite the bullet and install scratchbox... again... Jan 10 12:19:13 hello, is there a howto for full encryption of / on n900? Jan 10 12:22:07 I have heard like we can install andoid on to iphone and things like that. So is there anyway I could install maemo in my nokia c7? if its not possible may i know why? Jan 10 12:22:26 no. Jan 10 12:22:53 Because maemo has binary bits from nokia that are not able to / licenced to run on other platforms Jan 10 12:23:24 Also - the C7 isn't documented enough to run any community effort at some similar OS. Jan 10 12:23:39 Also - as I understandit,it's got less RAM. Jan 10 12:24:57 oh. :( its not documented.SO i think, any flavour of linux in nokia is not going to happen Jan 10 12:26:35 nokia has several linux devices Jan 10 12:26:44 what's the resolution on the c7 Jan 10 12:27:14 360 x 640 pixels, 3.5 inches Jan 10 12:29:18 yeah i was hpoing to buy n900 but it has resistive touch which i dont like Jan 10 12:29:39 i find it quite nice Jan 10 12:29:43 ^^ Jan 10 12:29:57 It's -very- nice. Super accurate. Jan 10 12:30:05 what? resistive touch? Jan 10 12:31:17 i hvnt tried the resistive touch in n900. Can somebody compare the touch of n900 with something like 5320 or 5800 etc? Jan 10 12:31:24 obscurant1st: The N900's touch isn't like any other resistive touch I've ever used. Jan 10 12:31:44 obscurant1st: I used a 5800 at Nokia World when they were released. Prefer the N900, TBH Jan 10 12:32:02 The N900s touchscreen is pretty good. :) Jan 10 12:32:03 Jaffa: oh, is it that good? then i think i will have to try that one. I hated 5800 touch. Jan 10 12:32:38 obscurant1st: the 5800 had a rubbish UX though, probably not entirely the hardwares fault. Jan 10 12:34:18 ok. thanks guys. I will give it a try. Jan 10 12:40:11 anyone knows why diablo kernel has modified code for omap2430? Jan 10 12:40:48 i mean, modified compared to vanilla Jan 10 12:42:47 slonopotamus: they weren't as into upstreaming back then? :d Jan 10 12:44:59 alterego: dunno. i don't know what commit diablo kernel forked from so used v2.6.21-omap1, applied diablo sources on top and now rebasing that monster on top of v2.6.22-omap1. almost done, not resolved mmc code yet and that strange stuff with 2430 Jan 10 12:55:07 ~bot snack Jan 10 12:55:08 lolloo: :) Jan 10 12:55:30 maemo notify on xchat is good Jan 10 12:55:40 but the led doesnt flash! Jan 10 12:56:14 maemo notify is plugin for xchat on N900 if anyone doesnt know Jan 10 13:01:38 anyone know where theres an n810 disassembly guide Jan 10 13:10:34 Hi Jan 10 13:11:27 Anyone have any idea how the fm rds notify widgets, setup sliders work.. Jan 10 13:13:13 what is that? Jan 10 13:16:58 Mr_Rixa: look at the source? Jan 10 13:17:36 alterego: well, that's a great idea.. should sleep more so brain could function properly Jan 10 14:00:01 hello all! Jan 10 14:00:35 I used to use scheduleworld via syncevolution.. Now that it's down, I'm a bit lost. Any other suggestions? Jan 10 14:02:17 keep your private data private? Jan 10 14:05:44 orangey: google calendar using erminig seems to work sometimes Jan 10 14:06:34 last time in december Jan 10 14:07:11 ..calendar syncing using n900=fail, unless you have exhange server Jan 10 14:09:01 erminig + google calendar has worked flawlessly for me for months Jan 10 14:12:24 pupnik: of course if I had my own server, it wouldn't have gone down leaving me in disarray Jan 10 14:12:48 pupnik: so I am open to hosting my own, being lucky enough to actually colo a server, even though it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that others have the same option Jan 10 14:13:02 cos^: I am saddened to think that's the last option left Jan 10 14:14:12 nidO: mine synced last time 6.12, and now it complains about wrong username/password pair. and crashes if i try to edit them. Jan 10 14:14:31 nidO: erminig? Jan 10 14:15:20 odd, mine last synced about 10 mins ago and worked fine as always. tried a reinstall? Jan 10 14:15:32 cos^: apt-get --purge remove erminig Jan 10 14:15:40 orangey, its a program that adds google calendar syncing support Jan 10 14:16:18 nidO: Oh, sorry. I thought after saying that yours has been flawless, you said it last updated 6.12, but I misread that.. it was cos who did Jan 10 14:16:33 *sigh* Google finally gets me. Jan 10 14:16:49 I knew it would eventually happen Jan 10 14:20:01 orangey: we are talking about things that were once kept in tiny little notebooks in pieces of paper, or in brains Jan 10 14:20:41 * MohammadAG ponders getting an android Jan 10 14:20:58 they suck, but I need an upgrade :/ Jan 10 14:21:30 i'll try purging and reinstalling Jan 10 14:22:08 nice surprise when n900 drains in 5hrs Jan 10 14:22:24 after 4½hrs i checked top and saw tracker being helpful and kept my pocket warm :[ Jan 10 14:22:41 even nicer suprise when mine suddenly decides it's capable of running over a week idle \o/ Jan 10 14:23:34 MohammadAG: what kind of Android? Jan 10 14:23:35 thought it was the shitty signal on train between helsinki and tampere when heading out but didnt make sense it drained so much while stationary... maybe time to kill tracker once and for all on my phone Jan 10 14:24:30 lardman, idk, I just need a new device Jan 10 14:24:50 a new N900 would do fine, but I'd wait for the successor Jan 10 14:24:52 I have the same feeling, but I can't see anything that does everything I want Jan 10 14:24:55 tbh, if the supposed leaked x7 specs are even halfway true i'd be sorely tempted to get one Jan 10 14:25:04 MohammadAG: your N900 broken? Jan 10 14:25:10 nidO: link? Jan 10 14:25:15 no, but seems to be breaking down Jan 10 14:25:16 http://mynokiablog.com/2011/01/08/rumours-nokia-n9-being-announced-at-mwc-in-6-weeks-time-more-n9x7-gossip/ Jan 10 14:25:24 lots of SGX recovery lines in terminal Jan 10 14:25:37 MohammadAG: oh, not so good Jan 10 14:25:40 great, i got it working. purging didn't help, but it didn't crash when i selected the account before clicking edit account Jan 10 14:26:02 also google had changed my username from xxx@google.com to xxx@gmail.com Jan 10 14:26:16 MohammadAG: if there were a Cortex with hw kb, ~4" screen + compass/gps/accelerometers I'd buy one Jan 10 14:27:15 even the 7" tablets don't usually do e-compass + camera, so not interested there either; other than the rather pricey samsung galaxy tab Jan 10 14:27:46 imo the main huge flaw with 7" tablets is that theyre 7" Jan 10 14:28:01 yeah, but for a different use-case, not as a phone Jan 10 14:28:23 well thats also my point. theyre far too giant to be phones, and too small and fiddly to be halfway decent tablets Jan 10 14:28:34 Dell Streak @ 5" is too small to not have a kb I think Jan 10 14:28:41 10" is a much better tablet size imo Jan 10 14:28:46 too big Jan 10 14:28:50 I've got a laptop in that case Jan 10 14:29:30 Is meego usable? Jan 10 14:29:35 (on an n900) Jan 10 14:29:41 define usable Jan 10 14:29:47 orangey: not quite Jan 10 14:29:47 it runs, it isnt a replacement for maemo Jan 10 14:29:55 nido: can make sip calls and receive SMS Jan 10 14:30:08 * Arkenoi won't by any symbian device even if it is fuel cells ethanol powered, has builtin 100Lm full HD pico projector and runs dual core 2GHz Jan 10 14:30:20 i'm hit by some SIP bug on my n900 that makes it essentially useless as a phone to me (I dont' use cellular) Jan 10 14:30:38 well Symbian devices are hard to use with another OS too, no flashing Meego for example Jan 10 14:30:49 orangey: bug #? Jan 10 14:31:16 lardman: I can look it up if you really want, but it's my impression that it's fast entering the 'wontfix' category Jan 10 14:31:29 yeah probably, no work around available? Jan 10 14:32:11 * Arkenoi makes (and receives) about 80% of voice calls via SIP Jan 10 14:32:22 * lardman has made one Jan 10 14:32:22 lardman: don't use wifi Jan 10 14:32:53 oh, well I'm not the man to talk to, I've used it once successfully with wifi and never bothered again Jan 10 14:33:00 afaicr Jan 10 14:34:20 my cellular network operator provides SIP interface to the switch, so i can forget about roaming charges, just routing my calls to voip Jan 10 14:34:54 Arkenoi: wow. sounds progressive. what's the operator? Jan 10 14:34:56 MohammadAG: Desire-Z with larger screen, faster processor, Coretex A8 rather than Snapdragon, would do me fine as a Meego device Jan 10 14:35:17 orangey, Megafon, Russia Jan 10 14:35:27 MeeGo's for developers atm Jan 10 14:35:36 actually, I see another attempt to fix the problem in another bug report.. i'll try that out Jan 10 14:37:24 nid0, wimax on n9? i smell BS Jan 10 14:38:17 MohammadAG: that's what I want to do though, fiddling with kernel drivers, am getting bored of all this GUI rubbish ;) Jan 10 14:38:22 those who don't complain about the slowness of it Jan 10 14:40:11 lardman, good luck, you're gonna need lots of it Jan 10 14:40:30 hmm, we'll see Jan 10 14:40:36 no hw though, so nothing to do Jan 10 14:46:37 Now that I'm not using an N900 as a day-to-day phone, I feel more inclined to work on the low level Meego stuff, or at least try to help out Jan 10 14:46:58 otherwise, if you're trying to use the phone day-to-day, it's not really doable Jan 10 14:47:50 haven't yet figured out how to compile the kernel Jan 10 14:47:50 a bit messy, haven't tried the latest one Jan 10 14:48:16 I'd be inclinded to wait for the hardfp stuff to all go through then start from there Jan 10 14:48:55 * pahartik would like to know whether current "kernel-power 2.6.28-maemo42" is configured with "CONFIG_MAC_PARTITION=y" Jan 10 14:49:10 what about contact syncing? What do folks use for that? Has anybody gotten ubuntu one working? Jan 10 14:49:32 orangey: I just backup to the PC with Ovi Jan 10 14:50:10 what kind of PC? Jan 10 14:50:32 Windows box Jan 10 14:50:33 MEH - http://mynokiablog.com/2011/01/08/rumours-nokia-n9-being-announced-at-mwc-in-6-weeks-time-more-n9x7-gossip/ what a pile of noise and nonsense. It needs just typos like hspda (instead of HSDPA), logical nonsense like "hspa:foo, hspda:bar" (instead of proper HSDPA and HSUPA numbers), an odd RAM of 350MB (what a collection of 2^n is THAT?), and mentioning snapdragon CPU - I know what to think of that Jan 10 14:51:07 it looks like a ruse to get people going to that chap's blog Jan 10 14:51:38 lardman: I don't think I can do another nokia phone rumour cycle Jan 10 14:51:58 after being thoroughly happy with my n810 and getting an n900, I'm honestly not sure what happens next Jan 10 14:52:04 * lcuk waits for Nokia 007 model Jan 10 14:52:10 I'd prefer we didn't get to this state of endless waiting Jan 10 14:52:14 I'm *loathe* to go android, and iphone is obviously off the table Jan 10 14:52:49 orangey, thankfully, both those options will end up in meegos favour one day Jan 10 14:52:54 I would be happy with an updated N810 actually, not too keen on small screen sizes on phones and thinking that a tablet+phone combo might be the best bet Jan 10 14:53:01 orangey, sucks, doesn't it? Jan 10 14:53:05 lcuk: what do you mean? Jan 10 14:53:07 hey GAN900 Jan 10 14:53:12 the number of devices I am seeing meego emerging on it shouldnt be long before you can run it anywhere Jan 10 14:53:13 GAN900: frustrating, really. Jan 10 14:53:13 :) Jan 10 14:53:21 I can't believe how incompetently Nokia has treated the market all of these years. Jan 10 14:53:21 DocScrutinizer, and it mentions wimax, though it is well known that nokia dumped it Jan 10 14:53:34 lcuk: so long as someone wants to port it Jan 10 14:53:35 orangey, just gotta distance yourself and laugh a bit. Jan 10 14:53:43 Otherwise it makes you a bit crazy. Jan 10 14:53:45 lardman, reverting to my n810 this weekend has been a pleasant surprise :) Jan 10 14:53:45 lcuk: are there any meego phones coming? Jan 10 14:53:48 lcuk, run what, shit? Jan 10 14:53:49 lardman, sure thing Jan 10 14:53:55 lcuk: is there working gpu hw acceleration on the snapdragon for example? Jan 10 14:54:02 GAN900: right you are Jan 10 14:54:13 Only usable stuff is gonna come from people bundling MeeGo. Jan 10 14:54:15 I think there's kernel drivers, but I don't fancy writing an opengl implementation Jan 10 14:54:23 and that's all going to be TPM-locked. Jan 10 14:54:24 on a sidenote: if I were interested in phones without hw-kbd I'd probably had bought an iPhone years ago, rather than daddling on my N810 and waiting for successor / pondering how to retrofit a UMTS module to N810 Jan 10 14:54:34 lardman, who says meego will always need 3d? Jan 10 14:54:56 lcuk, people writing the specs. Jan 10 14:55:05 :) Jan 10 14:55:06 DocScrutinizer: Is the retrofit in the realm of possibility? I'd take n810 + some kind of cell module Jan 10 14:55:09 lcuk: if the hw has 3D I'd like to be able to use it, and realistically it will always need 3D Jan 10 14:55:14 DocScrutinizer, I had to order a new screwdrivers set Jan 10 14:55:23 cos one of my n810s is borkened Jan 10 14:55:26 orangey: I thinks somebody even did it Jan 10 14:55:31 Who, notably, are all OEMs and silicon manufacturers. Jan 10 14:55:32 lardman, sure thing Jan 10 14:55:39 DocScrutinizer: really? link? Jan 10 14:55:52 docscrutinizer: with no hw kb I'd go for one of the HTC 4"+ phones Jan 10 14:56:00 orangey, hold on its certainly been done Jan 10 14:56:05 sorry, couldy piece of memory Jan 10 14:56:07 n810 cell conversion is a work of love Jan 10 14:56:11 cloudy* Jan 10 14:56:11 the pics are droolworthy Jan 10 14:56:21 lcuk: I'd do it. Jan 10 14:56:26 lcuk: I LOVE my n810 Jan 10 14:56:42 the only thing it was missing was the ability to SMS Jan 10 14:56:45 I imagine someone will come out with something like the Desire-Z but with a larger screen eventually Jan 10 14:56:53 rather than hacking an N810 Jan 10 14:57:11 I imagine Nokia needs to announce their crap asap Jan 10 14:57:35 yes that's certainly true Jan 10 14:58:04 but... I have this niggling fear that they might actually think it's not good enough now and scrap it, and move on to the next target, dual core or whatever Jan 10 14:58:26 moving target - HAHA Jan 10 14:58:38 probably makes sense from the consumer perspective, but not for the devs Jan 10 14:58:38 this killed OM Jan 10 14:58:50 OM? Jan 10 14:58:52 lardman, hardware is already way dated at this point. Jan 10 14:58:56 openmoko Jan 10 14:59:27 DocScrutinizer: what, that they didn't release because they were caught up with moving targets? Jan 10 14:59:30 GAN900: in which case they should just release it as a developer sop and move on to the next hw incarnation without leaving us all hanging Jan 10 14:59:53 yes, at least partially that's been a reason Jan 10 14:59:55 GAN900, how dated are we talking? Jan 10 15:00:07 lardman, Nokia is clearly filled to the brim with incompetent people. Jan 10 15:01:00 MohammadAG, judging both by what was announced at the 2009 Summit and what's shown up in kernel code so far (I don't have any other info), basically a marginally improved N900 Jan 10 15:01:06 OMAP3630, etc. Jan 10 15:01:10 oh, I think there are lots of very competent people, just a very few confused hats Jan 10 15:01:23 Since the N900 was a bit dated by the time IT came out, well. Jan 10 15:01:33 Nokia is chasing the previous generation again. Jan 10 15:01:50 DocScrutinizer, probably. Jan 10 15:02:23 btw this as well isn't new Jan 10 15:02:32 orangey, heres the thread where guy is converting his n810 to cell phone Jan 10 15:02:47 and specifically where he added SIM slot and wired it up Jan 10 15:02:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551420#post551420 Jan 10 15:02:50 lcuk: \o/ Jan 10 15:03:19 DocScrutinizer, toss in the TPM shit, the focus on "consumers" (read: trying to be the iPhone) and other nonsense compounds it, though. Jan 10 15:03:20 as I say, its absolutely breathtaking :) Jan 10 15:03:36 do you use an external gps für n900 is is the internal one good enaught? (need for sport tracking and car navigation) Jan 10 15:04:41 wait what Jan 10 15:04:54 MohammadAG, I said the same Jan 10 15:04:55 the "N9" or whatever it's being called has TPM? Jan 10 15:05:01 oh, not that Jan 10 15:05:11 i know hehe Jan 10 15:05:35 MeeGo has TPM support? Jan 10 15:06:51 lcuk *gulp* wow. Jan 10 15:09:41 the other huge advantage is that this would allow me to use 3g in my city Jan 10 15:09:51 eichi: if you have a SIM registered, the N900 GPS is really good Jan 10 15:09:57 another HUGE frustration about my n900 is that in most parts of canada, you can't use more than 2.5g Jan 10 15:10:16 blame canafa Jan 10 15:10:18 :D Jan 10 15:10:21 :D Jan 10 15:10:40 i still wonder how the iPhone 2G succeeded Jan 10 15:10:53 i can't use 2G nowadays Jan 10 15:10:56 Guys, I use this dialer.webs.com "Free-Call" VOIP service. I wonder how to get it working @ n900. I think its related to SIP or something. Jan 10 15:11:05 N900 is also not so great without a working touchscreen ;) Jan 10 15:13:01 hmmm. i wonder if it's possible to add one of these telit HSDPA modules to the n900 Jan 10 15:13:24 could somebody proofread ~flashing page please? I did quite a bit of cleanup and tossing in additional hints and stuff Jan 10 15:14:01 was a stinking mess really Jan 10 15:14:16 alterego, got an idea for the mediaplayer Jan 10 15:14:24 Yeah? Jan 10 15:14:34 how about we capture volume keys Jan 10 15:14:47 For what? Jan 10 15:14:48 then reimplement volume changing Jan 10 15:14:55 and add hold to do special function Jan 10 15:14:56 Why? Jan 10 15:15:08 Yeah, could be neat. Jan 10 15:15:09 brilliant idea Jan 10 15:15:11 hold to skip/back track Jan 10 15:15:19 Look at Columbus MainWindow for volume key processing :P Jan 10 15:15:21 crossfade Jan 10 15:15:31 fade-in/out Jan 10 15:15:33 I'd prefer double press etc. Jan 10 15:15:35 autolevel Jan 10 15:16:01 alterego, I know about that :P Jan 10 15:16:09 double press, hold, whatever Jan 10 15:16:20 qwerty12 did it for his closed app Jan 10 15:16:40 if you read the postinst, he actually breaks the applet so it doesn't capture volume keys Jan 10 15:16:54 usability: short single press and hold of either vol+ / - is to be kept for original function Jan 10 15:16:55 then somehow, he reimplemented it Jan 10 15:16:57 * pahartik finds document at "http://repository.maemo.org.ipv6.sixxs.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/k/kernel-power/kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo42.diff.gz" and figures out that "CONFIG_MAC_PARTITION is not set" Jan 10 15:17:21 you need to catch doubleclicks and pressing both vol+ and - at once Jan 10 15:17:28 lcuk: this cell conversion is UNBELIEVABLE! Jan 10 15:17:36 ah, right Jan 10 15:17:39 lcuk: I can make this happen Jan 10 15:17:44 double click and hold Jan 10 15:17:46 MohammadAG, well, the security framework is pretty evil. Jan 10 15:17:55 MohammadAG, much more evil than on the N900. Jan 10 15:18:11 Rumor mill says the platsec folks are super zealous, too. Jan 10 15:18:25 GAN900, should I expect root access easily? Jan 10 15:18:40 MohammadAG, if Nokia doesn't do proper TPM, I'll guarantee other MeeGo OEMs wiil Jan 10 15:18:53 MeeGo is not about protecting your rights as a consumer. Jan 10 15:19:02 OOOPS N900 vol+/- are mutually exclusive, machanically Jan 10 15:19:14 MohammadAG, personally I'd still assume so at this point. Jan 10 15:19:19 MohammadAG: they said it would be possible to disable platsec stuff, but at the expense of DRM, so I guess that will remain the case Jan 10 15:19:20 No mobile OS gives a damn about the consumer. Jan 10 15:19:27 yeah Jan 10 15:19:43 derf, well, Maemo wasn't too actively evil in that regard. Jan 10 15:19:58 tbh Jan 10 15:20:07 lardman, mutterings claim that that's not quite the case. Jan 10 15:20:11 so I suggest a vol+,vol- means next, a vol-,vol+ means prev Jan 10 15:20:12 I just want N900 with a better CPU and RAM Jan 10 15:20:17 It may be more "complicated" Jan 10 15:20:20 GAN900: oh right Jan 10 15:20:25 'Course, as with all mutterings. . . . Jan 10 15:20:32 GAN900: Right. It's the only one. Jan 10 15:20:43 And it's dead. Jan 10 15:20:45 MohammadAG, and slightly better build quality. Jan 10 15:20:47 DocScrutinizer, we'll see about it Jan 10 15:20:50 derf, indeed. Jan 10 15:20:58 then again the platform security stuff is complicated to get right and allow access Jan 10 15:21:00 i just need to figure out how to show the volume bar Jan 10 15:21:12 GAN900, yeah, wouldn't mind that too Jan 10 15:21:14 MohammadAG: just keep clear of the usual volume usage Jan 10 15:21:18 Though whether MeeGo had come to fruition or not, I don't think Maemo 6 would've been as good as Maemo 5. Jan 10 15:21:33 DocScrutinizer, yeah, of course ;) Jan 10 15:21:46 lardman, I'd just as soon have it (mostly) behave like a PC. Jan 10 15:21:50 MohammadAG: users want to level volume by either short as well as long press of any of vol+, vol- Jan 10 15:21:54 maemo 5 is awesome Jan 10 15:22:03 Too many uninformed people out there for that, though. Jan 10 15:22:14 GAN900: why not so good? Due to hastily added new UI stuff? Jan 10 15:22:41 double clicks and fast +,- sequences though are free for second functions Jan 10 15:23:21 where double clicks also may be click then hold Jan 10 15:23:41 NOT press and hold Jan 10 15:26:56 lardman, platsec, and the iPhoney shift in everything. Jan 10 15:27:07 right Jan 10 15:27:18 if i develop a small application with qt4 c++ on my laptop, how much to do to port this to n900? just some windows preferences? Jan 10 15:27:36 *window Jan 10 15:27:39 eichi: compile, run and have a look :P Jan 10 15:27:58 n900 is arm cpu? Jan 10 15:29:11 Yes. Jan 10 15:29:26 means i need an virtual environment, virtual machine or compile on n900 directly Jan 10 15:29:28 best way? Jan 10 15:29:41 archlinux on machine Jan 10 15:30:51 madde and scratchbox are the commonly used development environments Jan 10 15:31:34 okay, i will read about this next Jan 10 15:31:36 days Jan 10 15:31:44 a few weirdos compile natively on N900 ;-D Jan 10 15:31:58 are you calling me weirdo? Jan 10 15:32:02 some even do it on the n8x0 Jan 10 15:32:03 hehehehe Jan 10 15:32:17 btw. look what i found Jan 10 15:32:30 http://www.clementine-player.org/ Jan 10 15:32:36 amarok 1.4 ported to qt4 Jan 10 15:32:44 \o/ Jan 10 15:34:07 they really need a non-ugly screenshot Jan 10 15:34:21 it's not ugly Jan 10 15:34:55 i know. it's because they've chosen to take screenshots under gnome, windows seven, and macos Jan 10 15:35:33 whereas i would've thought that a lot of people want a qt4 amarok to fit in with their other qt4 stuff Jan 10 15:36:18 but aparently latest amarok can be skinned to look almost like 1.4 Jan 10 15:36:39 jacekowski: 0.5 comes with hypnotoad \o/ X-P Jan 10 15:36:40 it can't be skinned, that i know of Jan 10 15:36:48 but the layout can be rearranged quite a lot Jan 10 15:36:59 yeah something like that Jan 10 15:37:13 but i'm sticking with clementine for now Jan 10 15:38:47 skinning it to look like 1.4 wouldn't help Jan 10 15:39:05 the advantage is usually thought to be the layout, not the fact it looks like a qt3 application Jan 10 15:40:30 yeah Jan 10 15:40:31 Smart playlists and kittens - pffff Jan 10 15:41:08 I wonder who'll win - kitten or hypnotoad Jan 10 15:41:15 ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!! Jan 10 15:42:07 now add in a DECENT hotkey management for ALL functions, and this is the N900 mp3player of my dreams Jan 10 15:42:16 all hail the hypno toad Jan 10 15:42:28 all hail the hypno toad!!! Jan 10 15:42:28 jacekowski: any of those three panes can be put "on top of each other", with tabs to switch between them Jan 10 15:42:31 r33b.net - in short Jan 10 15:43:09 so if you put the playlist on one side, and the other two on top of each other, you basically have the music/lyrics/collection pane like in 1.4 Jan 10 15:43:57 ooh I forgot: hildonize it a bit Jan 10 15:44:33 jacekowski: also, you choose a more traditional alternative to the bar with the huge play/pause and volume controls Jan 10 15:44:38 I don't want to futz around with clumsy tiny scrollbars Jan 10 15:45:48 i'll have to show you my screenshots one day Jan 10 15:45:57 but i have to find them on old hdd Jan 10 15:45:59 actually, i just resized amarok 2 to n900-size, and it looks surprisingly OK Jan 10 15:46:17 especially if you have all the panes fullscreen and tabbed Jan 10 15:46:56 hmm Jan 10 15:47:06 clementine looks better Jan 10 15:47:11 i'll have to try to compile it Jan 10 15:47:21 what's the n900 window size? Jan 10 15:47:30 (for a non-fullscreen window) Jan 10 15:47:39 dunno Jan 10 15:48:08 i just looked at one of screenshots Jan 10 15:50:38 BCMM: smething like 800x442 Jan 10 15:50:46 ? Jan 10 15:52:13 BCMM: actually you shouldn't bother about it. Rather resize accordingly Jan 10 15:52:45 DocScrutinizer: no, looking at whether Amarok 2 would work on that screen Jan 10 15:52:59 BCMM: some theme even might decide to have a top bar of different hight Jan 10 15:54:58 http://ompldr.org/vNnhnMQ - smallest (vertically) amarok 2 will go Jan 10 15:55:22 looks ok actually, - slightly too big but wouldn't be without status and menu bars Jan 10 15:56:18 oh, silly me - there's loads of space wasted because i didn't lock the layout again Jan 10 15:56:41 like where it uses a whole bar to say "playlist" Jan 10 15:57:31 hmm.. time for me to leave that channel for good I think Jan 10 15:57:59 hrw, by then. Jan 10 15:58:06 s/by/bye Jan 10 15:58:13 GAN900: ;D Jan 10 15:58:47 770 in drawer, n810 in friend's hands as he do shr for it, n900 waits for buyer. Jan 10 15:58:53 so bye Jan 10 15:58:59 hrw: wave Jan 10 16:02:28 duh, farewell hrw Jan 10 16:04:30 Crowdsource: Qt Creator using Python: how? Jan 10 16:04:39 (not necessarily in Maemo, btw) Jan 10 16:05:09 hi crashanddie Jan 10 16:05:14 yo Doc Jan 10 16:06:03 any screenies of the new media player for those of us who don't currently have Qt Creator installed on their work Windows PCs? Jan 10 16:06:31 new mediaplayer? Jan 10 16:06:50 MohammadAG's one Jan 10 16:06:56 mohammedia? is supposed to look like osso MP Jan 10 16:07:18 except that strange distrotion on cover art :-P Jan 10 16:07:19 is that not what you were talking about? Jan 10 16:07:28 lardman, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/?p=26 Jan 10 16:07:50 thanks crashanddie Jan 10 16:08:07 lardman: we were talking about a amarok spinoff Jan 10 16:08:19 ah ok Jan 10 16:08:52 [2011-01-10 16:28:15] http://www.clementine-player.org/ Jan 10 16:09:49 thanks Jan 10 16:09:53 np Jan 10 16:10:51 So, PyQt Creator? Does it exist? Jan 10 16:11:44 I seem to recall I heard abot such thing, yes Jan 10 16:12:00 bbl o/ Jan 10 16:20:37 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16418873/online_communities_2.png Jan 10 16:30:19 hi Jan 10 16:30:48 I had to take my laptop to a repair centre Jan 10 16:31:06 so for now, my only computer is the N900 Jan 10 16:31:31 and your n810 :) Jan 10 16:32:54 lcuk: yes, but I have to give the N810 back the day after tomorrow Jan 10 16:34:14 in this email http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-January/003078.html I see the phrase "Nokia showed MeeGo devices Jan 10 16:34:14 in their Qt meeting booth."; anyone know what these were? Plain N900s? Jan 10 16:36:15 lcuk: it is a nice little device though. the N95+N810 combo was great when the N900 was at repair Jan 10 16:36:26 lardman: sounds interesting Jan 10 16:38:24 Hey Jan 10 16:38:31 hi Jan 10 16:39:03 dosen't this look good ? http://www.istyles.com/nokia-n900-skin-p-52625.html?osCsid=d2bc5444792af46c48f45493a3ef50cc Jan 10 16:43:09 xDaReaperx: it's lol Jan 10 16:44:04 lol like ? Jan 10 16:44:32 there are many others http://www.istyles.com/nokia-nokia-n900-c-292_567_700.html?page=0#32611 Jan 10 16:44:51 looks sleek i guess Jan 10 16:45:10 xDaReaperx: the skin and image on the screen would never match that well without photoshop Jan 10 16:45:30 for a start, the screen's colour temperature does not change based on incident light... Jan 10 16:45:37 looks, like a man tries do make his d*** shine a little bigger ;D with this car Jan 10 16:46:08 it should be good to personalize you're dull looking brick a bit :P Jan 10 16:46:37 i'd go so far as to say it's a bit dishonest to make the skin and screen look seamless like that Jan 10 16:46:57 it's two different skins Jan 10 16:47:02 one for front and back Jan 10 16:47:07 i know Jan 10 16:47:15 if you wish , you might not apply the front Jan 10 16:47:20 back should look good Jan 10 16:47:27 but the front one has a matching desktop background, and they portray it as matching seamlessly Jan 10 16:47:46 when in reality that would only happen under very precise lighting conditions Jan 10 16:47:51 Kind of ... but it looks impressive Jan 10 16:48:06 i mean usually i've seen those for laptops Jan 10 16:48:12 not mobiles ... Jan 10 16:48:35 hi all Jan 10 16:48:39 timeless_mbp: here? Jan 10 16:48:45 kinda Jan 10 16:48:48 what's up Jan 10 16:48:48 So I recommended my friend to get a C7 Jan 10 16:48:50 lol Jan 10 16:48:57 why? Jan 10 16:48:59 xDaReaperx: not sure you understand... it looks impressive, because it's shopped. Jan 10 16:49:19 timeless_mbp: do you have any idea how to get the same bug fix release that enabled swipe call accept on the S3 device? Jan 10 16:49:19 So it will not be so impressive in real ? Jan 10 16:49:36 timeless_mbp: just curious if you know where/how to get it or could recommend someone to ask Jan 10 16:49:38 looks pricey though Jan 10 16:49:41 no clue :) Jan 10 16:50:03 * timeless_mbp knows absolutely nothing about Symbian and wants to keep it that way Jan 10 16:50:15 timeless_mbp: sure sure okay, thanks anyways :) Jan 10 16:50:22 it is a great phone btw Jan 10 16:50:22 xDaReaperx: ok, look at teh pic of teh front. now imagine what that looks like under typical indoor lighting. the screen is much brighter and whiter than the darker, yellower skin Jan 10 16:50:41 sivang2: hey... Jan 10 16:50:46 got time to look at something? Jan 10 16:50:49 xDaReaperx: likewise, the screen image would look dark and gray compared to the skin in sunlight Jan 10 16:50:49 Yeah .. you're right there :D Jan 10 16:50:59 Yeah ... Jan 10 16:51:02 timeless_mbp: I will, but in an hour Jan 10 16:51:11 timeless_mbp: I'm not at my place, at her Windows's machine Jan 10 16:51:20 timeless_mbp: using irssi on windows through cygwin Jan 10 16:51:31 timeless_mbp: if it is an eyeballs things, then fire away Jan 10 16:52:52 xDaReaperx: either the images on the site are either photoshopped, or the skins where designed specifically for the lights they used for the photos Jan 10 16:53:21 they'd still look pretty nice without the matching backgrounds Jan 10 16:53:24 Yeah probably a brighter screen or something ... , the price is kind of too much for it though ... Jan 10 16:53:31 yeah Jan 10 16:53:40 sivang2: it's eyeballs Jan 10 16:53:58 timeless_mbp: fire away Jan 10 16:56:04 hey so whats the fastest speed/size sd card an n900 can handle Jan 10 16:59:19 i think n900 takes microsd/microsdhc cards Jan 10 17:01:44 epp: i *think* i saw somebody in here talking about benchmarking different brands of microSD card in the past few days Jan 10 17:01:59 epp: no clue, I run a non-benchmarked class 6 card Jan 10 17:03:09 epp: anyway, it's definitely microsd/microsdhc cards only, for the built-in card reader Jan 10 17:03:26 using USB host mode, you could connect pretty much any external card reader Jan 10 17:06:46 any recommendations? Jan 10 17:07:04 what ever your wallet can handle Jan 10 17:07:22 i have any amount opf money Jan 10 17:07:25 epp: try before buying Jan 10 17:08:02 epp: then try all the cards and buy the most expensive one it can handle Jan 10 17:08:03 how. Jan 10 17:08:24 bust out a magical spell and have them appear? Jan 10 17:09:26 go to a shop where they're sold Jan 10 17:10:03 im gonna get a class 10 32 gb Jan 10 17:10:06 off newegg Jan 10 17:10:23 if you have literally unlimited funds, purchase one of every 32GB card, test them all, and use the fastest Jan 10 17:10:27 (then publish the test results) Jan 10 17:10:54 if you are really rich, you would pay someone else to do all that Jan 10 17:11:02 ;) Jan 10 17:11:08 BCMM: why just 32 GB? Jan 10 17:13:08 Venemo_N900, i cant fin a 64gb sdhc standard Jan 10 17:13:12 32 GB is the max ? Jan 10 17:13:29 or we could just stuff up as much as we can ? Jan 10 17:13:37 64 is in the SDXC class. n900 doesnt support it Jan 10 17:14:12 I've seen someone somewhere saying that 64 worked Jan 10 17:14:20 well Jan 10 17:14:30 n900 hardware is capable of working with sdxc Jan 10 17:14:30 if u see them ask them where they found a 64gb sdhc Jan 10 17:14:34 it is? Jan 10 17:14:37 yes Jan 10 17:14:43 but the slot is incorrect? Jan 10 17:14:49 no Jan 10 17:15:05 it's just software issue Jan 10 17:15:37 i dont want to have to load any more kernel modules than i have too Jan 10 17:15:39 to* Jan 10 17:15:43 but i wonder if it's stable ? Jan 10 17:15:44 SDXC was only defined in '09 Jan 10 17:15:53 DocScrutinizer: gonna have a lot of time on my hands to whenever you have the docs for fmxtd email or privmsg Jan 10 17:16:00 DocScrutinizer: (for probing avail bands, that is) Jan 10 17:16:03 well, sdxc and sdhc is electrically compatible Jan 10 17:16:15 it's just different structures in card Jan 10 17:16:21 but it's only software problem Jan 10 17:16:35 and Nokia wont work on it ? Jan 10 17:16:43 it's not nokia problem really Jan 10 17:16:47 i think they were planning to limit it to 32GB Jan 10 17:16:48 it's kernel developers problem Jan 10 17:16:58 nokia could help Jan 10 17:17:02 oh Jan 10 17:17:16 but it's kernel driver that needs sdxc support Jan 10 17:17:16 this one here says : http://talk.maemo.org/archive/index.php/t-33688.html Jan 10 17:17:19 2TB also would work Jan 10 17:17:38 hmmmm Jan 10 17:17:44 reading some info Jan 10 17:17:47 it should work Jan 10 17:17:52 yeah Jan 10 17:17:57 weird though lol Jan 10 17:18:42 why Jan 10 17:20:15 2TB is incredible lots of space Jan 10 17:20:27 incredibly * Jan 10 17:20:53 it would take forever to read all the files in it ... probably while playing music Jan 10 17:21:10 y7eha, totally not woirth it Jan 10 17:22:37 well, it's kinda amazing how many transistors you can have in something so small Jan 10 17:24:11 well i just found a 30MB/s 16GB for $125 Jan 10 17:24:12 jacekowski: http://xkcd.com/691/ Jan 10 17:24:32 epp: n900 controller can only do like 15M/s Jan 10 17:24:39 or 20 Jan 10 17:25:57 where did you discover this? Jan 10 17:26:22 in TRM Jan 10 17:26:36 TRM ? Jan 10 17:26:41 epp: maybe read the specification of the soc in the N900 Jan 10 17:27:10 Technical Reference Manual Jan 10 17:27:52 ok Jan 10 17:28:07 http://maemo.jacekowski.org/docs/ Jan 10 17:28:21 http://maemo.jacekowski.org/docs/spruf98g_omap3530TRM.pdf Jan 10 17:28:25 http://maemo.jacekowski.org/docs/omap3530.pdf Jan 10 17:28:26 these two Jan 10 17:29:41 sivang2: what are you doing with fmtxd? Jan 10 17:37:48 jacekowski: have to go , ttl Jan 10 17:45:44 holy shit... Jan 10 17:46:00 flying Jan 10 17:46:02 * slonopotamus watches his n800 booting omap-2.6.22 Jan 10 17:48:52 is there an app for N900 that can convert images? Jan 10 17:49:42 into what? Jan 10 17:50:50 into .gif Jan 10 17:50:58 and resize them Jan 10 17:51:31 Yay, finally got my GLES shaders working nicely :D Jan 10 17:52:07 Venemo_N900: I suspect installing imagemagick will install "convert" which can do that. Jan 10 17:52:17 (I don't have it installed, but I use it on every other system) Jan 10 17:52:28 Now to add some whizzy effects. Jan 10 17:52:32 hardaker: okay Jan 10 17:54:14 hardaker: is it in the repos? Jan 10 17:54:23 alterego: to what? Jan 10 17:54:32 I did an apt-cache search before suggesting it Jan 10 17:54:34 so yes. Jan 10 17:54:51 alterego: what are you making? Jan 10 17:55:10 Venemo_N900: I'm writing a small graphics engine in Qt with OpenGL for a glitzy new V2 trackview in Columbus. Jan 10 17:55:24 And I said I'd implement a pretty coverflow for Mohammedia player Jan 10 17:55:41 hardaker: it's not in the app manager. will install with aptget then :P Jan 10 17:55:52 proabably have to Jan 10 17:56:08 so Jan 10 17:56:22 any mmc experts? :) Jan 10 17:57:01 is there any website that has lots of themes? Jan 10 17:57:27 flat`: www.csszengarden.com Jan 10 17:58:55 hardaker: could you tell me how to use this convert tool? Jan 10 17:59:10 describe what you want to convert to and from? Jan 10 17:59:25 it's quite simple for format changes: convert file.jpg file.gif Jan 10 17:59:29 bbiab Jan 10 17:59:52 but can do a lot more. IE, scaling and rotating: convert -geometry 50%x50% -rotate 90 file.jpg file.gif Jan 10 17:59:57 flat`: what sort of themes? Jan 10 18:00:12 n900 Jan 10 18:00:13 hardaker: thx Jan 10 18:00:32 flat`: you mean desktop background sets, or widget styles? Jan 10 18:02:32 dont fully get what you mean by widget styles but like the neon theme that has the basic icon looks different too and button Jan 10 18:03:43 flat`: i suggest you search for "theme" in App manager Jan 10 18:05:11 i have, just thinking would be nice to see what kind they are before install/use Jan 10 18:12:12 flat`: ask for screenshots on tmo Jan 10 18:18:01 why does fenec have to be SOOO SLOW? Jan 10 18:18:25 Venemo_N900: what does fennec have over microb? Jan 10 18:19:12 lag Jan 10 18:19:45 BCMM: only one feature, sync. however if it was comparable in speed, I would use it Jan 10 18:32:18 Yay, fog works :D Jan 10 18:33:17 * ptl just bought an android tablet (Galaxy Tab) and it made him miss more his old N900 Jan 10 18:34:43 ptl: aww :( Do you not have an N900 any more? Jan 10 18:34:53 Does Android have copy/cut & paste yet? Jan 10 18:35:34 alterego: lol, don't tease me! Well, I don't know about the previous ones, but froyo has it. Jan 10 18:35:41 My N900 broke Jan 10 18:35:46 Yeah, never used to have it. Jan 10 18:35:55 I didn't find the receipt for sending to Nokia US to fix it Jan 10 18:35:56 That and, you can't save an image in a web page? Jan 10 18:36:09 i didn't try it but I think it depends on the browser Jan 10 18:36:11 lemme try it. Jan 10 18:36:44 Yeah, depends on the browser, I'm talking built-in. Jan 10 18:37:39 Yes, I can do that in the built-in browser Jan 10 18:39:06 Maemo is undoubtedly better than Android Jan 10 18:39:35 but... I don't have maemo at hand currently, and I thought I would take a try at android with such a different 'phone' Jan 10 18:39:50 I wouldn't spend my money in another N900 when N9 is just around the corner Jan 10 18:44:43 the main issue with maemo is the small user base. no one wants to put too much effort into developing something for maemo, when they can spend that time on developing an android or iPhone app instead. Jan 10 18:45:33 depends who you ask :) Jan 10 18:52:19 lcuk, ask anybody relevant. :) Jan 10 18:53:51 GAN: Looks like there are more specific news about N9 Jan 10 18:54:08 GAN: PossibleMWC announcement even (which would indeed be nice) Jan 10 18:54:10 moo, lardmn Jan 10 18:54:12 ah, I appear at just the right time :) Jan 10 18:54:17 hey RST38h Jan 10 18:54:39 Windows XP really is dog slow compared to Ubuntu 10.10 Jan 10 18:54:51 might be partly due to requirement for anti-virus of course Jan 10 18:55:11 normally my hw is too fast to realise, but netbooks really show the difference Jan 10 18:55:26 if only wifi worked everytime with Ubuntu... Jan 10 18:55:41 RST38h, where did you get that nugget of info? Jan 10 18:55:59 lardman: did you make any progress with ogg via dsp? Jan 10 18:56:23 on which platform? Jan 10 18:56:31 lardman: N900/maemo5 Jan 10 18:56:38 RST38h, link? Jan 10 18:56:53 I ran out of patience on the TMS320C55 Jan 10 18:56:54 RST38h, that's where I would've put the announcement, so I believe it. Jan 10 18:57:01 and have not tried on the C63 Jan 10 18:57:08 * GAN900 wonders if we'll see any protos. Jan 10 18:57:36 trumee: afaik there are some existing DSP tasks which need to have their wrappers changed to fit in with gdt-dsp Jan 10 18:57:41 gst-dsp even Jan 10 18:57:58 I've not had any time to have a go at that, and my N900 is currently defunct Jan 10 18:59:03 GAN: If you had it ready of course Jan 10 18:59:39 lardman: right. Jan 10 19:00:29 in fact on the TMS320C55 I ran out of memory, and patience to try to shift things around to save sufficient memory to get it to run Jan 10 19:00:53 * trumee is presently using a desktop to transcode an online ogg radio stream to mp3 for feeding to N900. Jan 10 19:01:12 GAN: http://mynokiablog.com/2011/01/08/rumours-nokia-n9-being-announced-at-mwc-in-6-weeks-time-more-n9x7-gossip/ Jan 10 19:01:46 RST38h, yeah, love the Snapdragon claims. Jan 10 19:01:54 You want to run vorbis on N900 dsp? why Jan 10 19:02:13 GAN: I see nothing wrong with snapdragon claims Jan 10 19:02:32 GAN: You may have noticed that Nokia stopped using OMAP CPUs in its Symbian^3 phones Jan 10 19:02:59 i sell my old n800. i use shred for the internal sd card. how can i overwrite the internal flash with random data für removing all content? Jan 10 19:03:02 GAN: So, a jump to Snapdragon is completely possible, especially given its general popularity Jan 10 19:03:08 RST38h: really? hard to know that info. Do they use snapdragon now? Jan 10 19:03:36 * RST38h has been checking out Dell Streak yeterday. Nice device. But apparently sold locked and cannot be unlocked. Jan 10 19:03:37 hard for us to know I mean unless someone pulls one apart as there's no dmesg equivalent Jan 10 19:03:47 RST38h: Dell sell it unlocked Jan 10 19:03:49 or just reflash and dd if=/dev/random of=/home/user/bigfile ? Jan 10 19:03:51 lardman: Who? Nokia? I do not think so Jan 10 19:04:16 lardman: BUT rumors say that their "ARM11 CPU" used in S60e5 phones is in fact made by Quallcom Jan 10 19:04:24 ok, so you agree that the specs are probably rubbish? Jan 10 19:04:42 lardman:Yes, so I found: even the $549 contract-free model is locked to at&T Jan 10 19:04:55 RST38h: over here you can get them unlocked Jan 10 19:05:01 lardman: At what price? Jan 10 19:05:08 hang on a tick Jan 10 19:05:33 lardman: No, I neither agree nor disagree that the specs are rubbish. But they obviously cannot be taken for granted. Jan 10 19:05:35 no hw keyboard? fail Jan 10 19:05:53 +1 Jan 10 19:05:56 ~£400 Jan 10 19:06:07 ShadowJK: The only large-screened device with a hw keyboard I have seen yesterday was HTC Evo 4G Shift. It sucks. Jan 10 19:06:13 I was just looking at the Motorola Milestone 2 Jan 10 19:06:22 Heh, I never knew Nokia used omap CPUs in their symbian phones... I thought they switched away from having separate application processor when Symbian gained hard realtime and became able to run the gsm/3g tasks itself Jan 10 19:06:26 ShadowJK: Evo 4G, on the other hand, is pretty decent Jan 10 19:06:29 OMAP, can now be rooted and have new flash images,... Jan 10 19:06:51 lardman: Ah, something like $600-$800? Jan 10 19:07:16 ShadowJK: Nokia did. Used OMAP1 (aka OMAP850) in E70and its kin Jan 10 19:07:23 Shadowjk: Used OMAP2 since N95 Jan 10 19:07:26 RST38h: yeah if you had to exchange, but we pay what the US do in dollars normally exchange rates ignored Jan 10 19:07:31 E70 was also "Dual CPU" :-) Jan 10 19:07:49 ShadowJK: they are still using an arm11-based SoC just not saying which one Jan 10 19:07:50 so do we reckon there's something coming or not? Jan 10 19:07:57 Also - that above link - 4* optical zoom - bullshit. Jan 10 19:08:11 * ShadowJK just ordered a second N900 today Jan 10 19:08:13 that whole blog is crap Jan 10 19:08:23 lardman: I am paid in USD and rubles (more or less rigidly tied to USD) :) Jan 10 19:08:31 ShadowJK: I want something faster and with an e-compass Jan 10 19:08:31 RST38h, except the Summit announcement and all of the kernel commits. Jan 10 19:08:35 lardman: So, every time I see UK prices, I go "ouch" Jan 10 19:08:36 Umm - 'dolby stereo speakers' - lol. Jan 10 19:08:43 I don't see any advantage to jumping over. Jan 10 19:08:46 bbiab, have to go do the washing up! Jan 10 19:09:11 GAN: Well, if the kernelcommits confirm omap, then it will be omap indeed Jan 10 19:09:22 GAN: difficult to imagine a different scenario Jan 10 19:10:11 if only the part about 1G ram turned out to be true Jan 10 19:10:42 Indeed Jan 10 19:10:43 GAN: Anyways, we only have 1 month of waiting left until MWC :) Jan 10 19:10:53 But the rest of it is an uninformed fool's wishlist. Jan 10 19:10:58 RST38h, oh boy. Jan 10 19:11:00 Although with all python and qt widgets/applets killed 256M started feeling barely usable Jan 10 19:11:11 ShadowJK:Should be easy to confirm by checking what ram+flash chips Samsung is shipping right now Jan 10 19:11:11 Maybe they'll ship sometime in August! Jan 10 19:11:27 RST38h, heh, or shipping in june 2010, knowing the usual pace :P Jan 10 19:11:36 GAN: Or october-november. That is what I have been predicting so far :) Jan 10 19:11:53 ShadowJK: true, indeed Jan 10 19:12:11 Beagleboard XM is another point of reference.. Jan 10 19:12:19 ShadowJK: I still do not hve Pythonpermanently installed, so feels ok :) Jan 10 19:12:21 Or pandaboard, but pandaboard is kinda buggy.. Jan 10 19:14:06 ShadowJK: I checked the US electronics stores yesterday, planning defection (if N9 disappoints) and looks like there are still no good alternatives to n900 Jan 10 19:14:23 RST38h, not one. Jan 10 19:14:30 ShadowJK: All the good android stuff (like Streak) is locked top to bottom Jan 10 19:14:39 It's sad, really, what we've been reduced to. Jan 10 19:14:43 No keyboards, too Jan 10 19:15:00 GAN: Give Android another6-9 months though... Jan 10 19:15:54 Yeah, getting the androids unlocked and getting some usable environment set up on it would take me months Jan 10 19:16:09 whereas MeeGo looks like it'd only need a week or so to make usable Jan 10 19:16:36 ShadowJK: Actually,jailbreaking most androids (motorola excluded) appears to be rather easy Jan 10 19:16:46 RST38h, to suck more? Jan 10 19:16:49 Hi Jan 10 19:16:49 I've got a quick question regarding the receiving of SMS on the N900 Jan 10 19:16:49 Does anyone know, which service is required on dbus, thus that SMS can be stored? Jan 10 19:16:49 I currently get an error on dbus: "member outOfStorage" of the csd-plugin "sms" Jan 10 19:16:49 and I'm looking for the right app to provide storage Jan 10 19:17:10 ShadowJK: But the damn Streak has got locked baseband, so cannot just swap in the .RU SIM card there Jan 10 19:17:12 RST38h, sure but there's still lots to be done after that :-) Jan 10 19:17:40 ShadowJK: Yea, like smoku says - you write a wrapper that loads your native app compiled into an .so Jan 10 19:17:51 ShadowJK: No direct access to audio or video, too Jan 10 19:19:51 re Jan 10 19:20:12 RST38h: re prices, yep Jan 10 19:20:14 lardman, how'd your silly trip to India go? Jan 10 19:20:25 fine, was a long long week though Jan 10 19:20:29 very busy Jan 10 19:20:35 at least there was no snow ;) Jan 10 19:20:44 did you encounter the famous Indian traffic? Jan 10 19:20:51 and was it as bad as we have seen? Jan 10 19:20:55 yep, worse Jan 10 19:20:56 s/bad/chaotic/ Jan 10 19:20:58 lcuk meant: and was it as chaotic as we have seen? Jan 10 19:21:03 :D Jan 10 19:21:31 I saw some people with BMW 7 series, obviously very very rich over there, still driving round in all that traffic Jan 10 19:21:39 madness, I'd leave my car at home! :) Jan 10 19:21:54 "Mars Journal Issue Inspires Hundreds of One-Way Trip Volunteers" Jan 10 19:21:56 ~seen javispedro Jan 10 19:22:00 if you have to drive , you have to Jan 10 19:22:04 javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 4d 19h 5m 8s ago, saying: '*looks at his mouse* right down the spacebar.'. Jan 10 19:22:11 TheOnion? No. DailyRotten? No. Slashdot! Jan 10 19:22:13 they are very precise drivers though, I was covering my eyes a lot of the time Jan 10 19:22:34 I was being driven, not driving, I hasten to add :D Jan 10 19:22:39 lardman, i hear that because everyone drives that way and expects it, it works Jan 10 19:23:00 its just different Jan 10 19:23:23 yep Jan 10 19:23:37 but over here people don't have the awareness and skill Jan 10 19:23:48 they do Jan 10 19:23:49 lcuk: Actually, it does not work, but the speeds are lower and the cars are cheaper, and the human lives are not so valued, so it works out Jan 10 19:23:57 they are fully aware of the text messages they get Jan 10 19:24:14 GAN900: re jailbreaking Androids, not to suck more, but to install Meego Jan 10 19:24:19 and it takes skill to balance drink on steering wheel whilst slicing cake on your knee! Jan 10 19:24:27 lardman, ah, well. Jan 10 19:24:31 and it even looks like those Motorola ones have been broken now Jan 10 19:24:32 lardman: Only when Meego handset is usable Jan 10 19:24:46 RST38h: sure, but the more the merrier helping out Jan 10 19:24:54 lardman: Which currently takes Meego out of consideration, unfortunately Jan 10 19:25:19 RST38h: Certainly it's not going to be user ready for a month or so yet I guess Jan 10 19:25:39 lardman: I doubt 1.2 will be ready for daily use Jan 10 19:25:47 lardman: But one can always hope. Jan 10 19:26:29 I doubt any of them will be ready unless we contribute the time and energy. Jan 10 19:26:37 Reference seems designed to be useless. Jan 10 19:26:51 can I play multiplayer with OpenTTD between N900 and a Pc? Jan 10 19:27:10 GAN: Probably just autogenerated Jan 10 19:27:38 Management loves autogenerated docs. They are cost-effective. Jan 10 19:28:40 * lcuk replaces RST38h with a short shell script Jan 10 19:28:54 grumpy_guy.sh :P Jan 10 19:29:00 lcuk: At least use PERL, you rascal! =) Jan 10 19:29:05 :D Jan 10 19:29:20 thats even shorter tho Jan 10 19:30:36 well my feeling is that we get rid of the closed apps straight away and go straight for a complete open source ui Jan 10 19:30:53 so basing on the reference image would be reasonable I guess, for starters at least Jan 10 19:30:56 RST38h, sorry, Reference applications. Jan 10 19:31:02 Ah, those Jan 10 19:31:15 lardman, hack on the open source stuff in the handset image. Jan 10 19:31:17 lardman: And who is going to be writing that open source UI? Jan 10 19:31:36 I mean, it is a lot of UI to write and debug Jan 10 19:31:49 RST38h: I'd leave the ui alone for the time being and handle the apps first Jan 10 19:31:57 ui seems to work just about Jan 10 19:33:02 e.g. like MohammadAG's media player - though I'd like to wait and see Meego or Harmattan/Meego in the flesh before basing on something Jan 10 19:33:44 lardman: yes but aren't most apps mostly UI? Jan 10 19:34:13 RST38h: no not really, things like the calendar have a backend, likewise the contacts app, etc Jan 10 19:35:29 those currently rely on google as backed, right? Jan 10 19:35:54 nope, libs documented in the maemo5 api docs Jan 10 19:36:11 though getting Google sync working without hacks would be good Jan 10 19:37:33 lardman: email too, but something is telling me that the most problematic part will still be ui Jan 10 19:37:56 sure ui will take work, but there are at least a few of us scudding about Jan 10 19:38:45 go and look at the reference apps and beat them into a pulp Jan 10 19:38:45 or patch and drop in existing code Jan 10 19:38:51 apps Jan 10 19:39:06 yeah, once I have something to run them on Jan 10 19:39:10 * lcuk nods Jan 10 19:39:39 I am trying to push towards reference actually meaning reference and adhering to the reference properly Jan 10 19:39:55 (it seems some think the reference applications will not be compliant for instance) Jan 10 19:40:18 lol Jan 10 19:42:47 it's odd, I now remember all the talk of open libraries in the backend and how we could make our own applications coming from various Nokians, but it's only now that I realise that was probably a not so subtle hint Jan 10 19:43:40 Hehe Jan 10 19:43:53 lardman, :) right now, seeing the work for mediaplayer actually coming together Jan 10 19:44:07 i know its 0zillion times more than it should need Jan 10 19:44:22 but REALLY pleased to see a collaborative effort coming out of it Jan 10 19:46:15 :) Jan 10 19:46:17 * SpeedEvil too! Jan 10 19:46:27 how can I get the media player to NOT stop playing videos when I focus out of it? Jan 10 19:46:57 I'm also pleased to see it, just a shame we didn't start earlier when I was more enthused about the N900 platform Jan 10 19:47:49 Venemo_N900: Set an alarm for 1 min time, play video, lock screen, wait for alarm to kick in, cancel alarm, video unpuases. Jan 10 19:48:24 SpeedEvil: forever? Jan 10 19:48:28 lardman, did you have n800 or n810? Jan 10 19:48:42 or were you a 770 user? Jan 10 19:48:56 SpeedEvil: I wish to watch a series and check irc occasionally Jan 10 19:48:57 Venemo_N900: no - just for that iceo Jan 10 19:49:01 yes all three Jan 10 19:49:03 video Jan 10 19:49:12 SpeedEvil: :( Jan 10 19:49:12 Venemo_N900: :/ Jan 10 19:49:17 mplayer works Jan 10 19:49:22 lardman, which still work? Jan 10 19:49:25 SpeedEvil: on the N900 ad video, it is possible! Jan 10 19:49:34 and does your newest barcode work on 8x0? Jan 10 19:49:39 all assuming the batteries are still ok Jan 10 19:49:46 SpeedEvil: hm, mplayer. maybe :) thx Jan 10 19:49:47 lcuk: no, needs opengl Jan 10 19:49:53 what for? Jan 10 19:49:55 Oh - tesco offers a barcode -> product API Jan 10 19:49:58 its reading barcodes! Jan 10 19:50:29 SpeedEvil, ann summers has offered that for a while Jan 10 19:50:35 err not that I would know :P Jan 10 19:50:41 lol Jan 10 19:51:26 http://techfortesco.blogspot.com/ http://www.techfortesco.com/tescoapiweb/terms.htm Jan 10 19:51:27 meh Jan 10 19:51:40 21. You will not write applications that could be seen to involve Tesco in certain genres of entertainment or business activity. These include all illegal activities, and also include (but are not limited to): Jan 10 19:51:41 a. adult entertainment (sex), Jan 10 19:51:46 ... Jan 10 19:51:57 fruit? Jan 10 19:52:07 * SpeedEvil wonders how you could write an adult entertainment program around the tesco web API. Jan 10 19:52:08 1 packet carrots (large) Jan 10 19:52:16 cling film Jan 10 19:52:32 rst38h, fwiw, i don't think there are two L's in Qualcomm (there are two M's) Jan 10 19:52:44 SpeedEvil, you need to upgrade your imagination then Jan 10 19:53:06 lcuk: My imagination is broken today. Jan 10 19:53:15 theres a "game" to play with shopping centres Jan 10 19:53:29 take 3 items to checkout Jan 10 19:53:33 anyone brave enough to fix broken mmc support in my drunken-rebase-of-diablo-sources-on-top-of-omap-2.6.22? :P Jan 10 19:53:34 I've spent today getting on the wrong bus, and walking a couple of miles in the sleet. Jan 10 19:53:35 and get the checkout lady to balk Jan 10 19:53:41 based on combination Jan 10 19:53:42 lcuk: yeah. Jan 10 19:53:44 lcuk: downgrade I think, down to gutter level Jan 10 19:53:46 like I just said with carrots ;) Jan 10 19:53:51 speedevil, http://foodporn.com/ ? Jan 10 19:53:58 its like the whiskey and babyfood :O Jan 10 19:54:51 lcuk: diapers, vodka, lubricant, ginger. And then you put the diapers back, realising you don't have enough cash. Jan 10 19:55:02 :O Jan 10 19:56:09 lcuk: s/its/it's/ Jan 10 19:56:46 as i thought :/ Jan 10 19:57:21 thanks again timeless_xchat :) I will need to remember this one day. Jan 10 19:57:59 lcuk, dont bother, the English language is evolving Jan 10 19:58:07 we shall get rid of the apostrophe soon Jan 10 19:58:11 ;-p Jan 10 20:07:16 At least he's not talking kiddiot .. Jan 10 20:07:25 lcuk: http://bash.org/?240120 (Re: checkout game) Jan 10 20:08:27 Out of curiosity -- instead of porting Android wholesale to phones like the n900, what about something like for Android apps on Maemo/meego/whatever what Wine is to Windows? Running the apps w/out "booting android?" Jan 10 20:08:30 :D BCMM Jan 10 20:09:33 kasansweat: i've wondered about that. is android's VM open? Jan 10 20:10:25 yes afaik Jan 10 20:10:53 Not sure. I'm still at the point where I don't really get how the whole Android thing works. Like, it's weird Java on top of weird Linux, so why is it still relatively locked down? Jan 10 20:11:07 am i right in saying that, basically, that runs on a linux(ish) kernel, and android apps run on it? Jan 10 20:11:48 kasansweat: wierd Linux and wierd Java are open, the core libraries that run on wierd Jave are not Jan 10 20:12:02 i supposed it ought to be possible to reimplement the graphics bits to use an X-server, at which point you could presumably run it on a "real" linux distro Jan 10 20:13:22 you need to reimplement all the java system libraries Jan 10 20:13:49 certainly doable, they have an exposed api, but a hell of a job Jan 10 20:14:19 better not Jan 10 20:14:22 so where in this system is the weirdo graphics system? in the system libs? Jan 10 20:16:02 in an Android system, yes, the whole lot is in there afaiu Jan 10 20:18:59 aha, i was looking for the discussion -- here it is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32784 Jan 10 20:19:08 hello all Jan 10 20:19:46 I've put a script into /etc/dbus-scripts.d that says: /usr/sbin/speedadaptfix * * com.nokia.mce.signal sig_call_state_ind active * Jan 10 20:20:00 however, it appears something *else* is being executed when a phone call becomes active Jan 10 20:20:04 so what am I doing wrong here? Jan 10 20:22:55 orangey: too few info Jan 10 20:26:09 DocScrutinizer: I want to execute a command when the telephone is making a call so I can manipulate CPU speed Jan 10 20:26:25 after some careful analysis, I think that's the main problem in my choppy sound problem Jan 10 20:27:01 aiui CPU freq is locked to 500MHz during calls anyway. I could be wrong though Jan 10 20:27:19 you got choppy sound on GSM calls? :-o Jan 10 20:28:56 * lcuk vanishes Jan 10 20:29:11 whatever, I can't see anything wrong with your dbus-scripts setup, assuming the signal to monitor is correctly matched by the pattern Jan 10 20:29:13 docscrutinizer: 600MHz I thought Jan 10 20:29:21 or that Jan 10 20:29:34 full-whack either way Jan 10 20:30:27 maemo still has a crazy amount of lurkers Jan 10 20:31:03 people i've never seen chat Jan 10 20:31:06 orangey: beware though, I once built a forkbomb by placing the script to execute into /etc/dbus-scripts.d :-D Jan 10 20:31:23 pupnik: not like us olides hey? :) Jan 10 20:31:29 oldies even Jan 10 20:31:34 hmm, too much vino Jan 10 20:31:51 or old age perhaps Jan 10 20:32:04 i know you can spell lardman Jan 10 20:32:34 I can spell lardman too ;-D Jan 10 20:32:40 :D Jan 10 20:32:53 bet you used tab though.... Jan 10 20:33:02 nope, actually not :-D Jan 10 20:33:11 oh, I take it all back Jan 10 20:33:28 would have been fun to chat more about music in berlin - as a matter of fact i have to highly reccommend Pantha du Prince - a guy from my neck of the woods Jan 10 20:33:51 I even considered a pun like >> I can spell lradman too ;-D Jan 10 20:34:12 :) Jan 10 20:34:46 * lardman regrets not being able to make it to Dublin to catch up with people Jan 10 20:34:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I670lCWpu7w Pantha du Prince - Bohemian Forest [HQ] apologies for the offtopic - the style is... "walking through the forest electro" Jan 10 20:35:21 * lardman watches Jan 10 20:35:21 yeah me too Jan 10 20:36:41 * lardman approves Jan 10 20:37:55 i really have met extraordinary people through nokia / maemo Jan 10 20:37:58 thought i was playing chain factor for a second Jan 10 20:38:23 ffwd a bit :) Jan 10 20:38:52 yeah of course - what surprised me is that 18 year old scenster girls in USA also like this Jan 10 20:40:37 well.. here's hoping I finally fixed this stupid choppy audio problem Jan 10 20:40:59 orangey: you have choppy audio under system load on n900? Jan 10 20:41:19 pupnik: It's that SIP is so choppy as to be unusable most of the time Jan 10 20:41:42 I'm using the power kernel and finally noticed that the CPU minimum was 125 for some reason Jan 10 20:41:43 aah SIP Jan 10 20:41:57 ah good diagnosis Jan 10 20:42:01 pupnik, according to youtube Jan 10 20:42:02 and the fix script I had rolled appeared not to work Jan 10 20:42:03 sometimes those things don't play well together Jan 10 20:42:07 its popular with germany blokes Jan 10 20:42:08 that's usually due to jitter or packet loss on internet and local uplink Jan 10 20:42:14 German * Jan 10 20:42:18 lcuk: well minnesota is very germany Jan 10 20:42:21 hello, how can I eras data on the n800 device safe to sell the device Jan 10 20:42:25 finally, I realized that it was that I had #!/bin/bash; changed it to #!/bin/sh and now it works Jan 10 20:42:34 click the video stats Jan 10 20:42:35 I did set the fixed CPU speed during a call to 850, though Jan 10 20:42:38 it has a nice breakdown Jan 10 20:42:44 showing where its popular Jan 10 20:42:51 If I have absolutely no problems, then I'll push it down to 600 and test again Jan 10 20:44:16 lcuk: I've been inspired by the link you sent. I'm going to try to do same for my n810, possibly with a larger module that supports hsdpa. Won't be as pretty, though Jan 10 20:44:37 ~tell orangey about omap-oc Jan 10 20:44:44 orangey, great Jan 10 20:44:56 you do realize locking the CPU @ 600 is bad enough, and locking it to 850 is just asking for your device to die Jan 10 20:45:11 MohammadAG: while on a call? Jan 10 20:45:24 MohammadAG: the telephone is completely unusable to me right now. Jan 10 20:45:24 anytime Jan 10 20:45:35 MohammadAG: so frankly, not much is lost in my life if it dies this minute. Jan 10 20:45:35 regardless, I don't think the CPU lifetime is better during a call Jan 10 20:45:41 orangey, GSM? Jan 10 20:45:45 MohammadAG: sip Jan 10 20:45:47 mine stays at 250 or sth Jan 10 20:45:53 ah, that Jan 10 20:46:08 and I wouldn't refer to SIP as "while on cal", it's rather misleading Jan 10 20:46:09 sip is slow on a 1.7GHz laptop :P Jan 10 20:46:45 you think, overclocking is _very_ bad for n900? Jan 10 20:46:46 MohammadAG: why does it work perfectly on my n810? Jan 10 20:46:47 basically when siping, you can't use anything Jan 10 20:47:08 and most certainly it's not curable with higher CPU speed when you get quality problems on SIP Jan 10 20:47:13 orangey, never had an N810, but maybe PA is less crappy there? Jan 10 20:47:18 eichi: yes Jan 10 20:47:29 maybe swap's freaking out and putting a lot of IO on the eMMC Jan 10 20:47:30 ~tell eichi about omap-oc Jan 10 20:47:41 ~overclocking Jan 10 20:47:42 "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" Jan 10 20:47:44 MohammadAG: i tried with your pa too, but no sugar Jan 10 20:48:26 my PA is still based on a crappy PA :P Jan 10 20:48:29 orangey: you got me on your ignore list or what? Jan 10 20:48:38 DocScrutinizer: no, why? Jan 10 20:48:53 You overclock with apt??? Jan 10 20:49:00 that's (quality issues on SIP) usually due to jitter or packet loss on internet and local uplink Jan 10 20:49:05 DocScrutinizer: it appears higher CPU does actually fix the problem. I'm testing again Jan 10 20:49:21 DocScrutinizer: Not the case. I test other SIP devices on the same network. it is uniquely n900 Jan 10 20:49:32 DocScrutinizer: the problem is known and abandoned by nokia Jan 10 20:49:40 mhm Jan 10 20:49:57 DocScrutinizer: ithe first breakthrough I had was when I experienced significant relief with removing WPA from my network Jan 10 20:49:58 higher CPU might fix it, and it is breaking your device :P Jan 10 20:50:13 DocScrutinizer: the theory being that wpa had a large cpu overhead Jan 10 20:50:17 btw, one thing bothers me Jan 10 20:50:24 orangey: so what got WPA to do with CPU clock and PA? Jan 10 20:50:28 skype calls are lighter than normal calls on symbian Jan 10 20:50:36 heavier than decryption on maemo Jan 10 20:50:36 MohammadAG: this morning, I was ready to throw this thing in the garbage. now I'm happy to keep it Jan 10 20:50:48 MohammadAG: i stopped reading at "symbian" Jan 10 20:50:54 because it was at the end of the line Jan 10 20:50:55 MohammadAG: if it needs to be OC to give me another 1 month, that's 1 month more life than it has at this minute Jan 10 20:51:02 kerio, heh Jan 10 20:51:23 DocScrutinizer: It appears to have more CPU overhead.. intuitively makes sense to me Jan 10 20:51:24 * pahartik would use SIP on "Nokia N900" but client seems to not like IPv6 Jan 10 20:51:29 lol your device, your decisions Jan 10 20:51:36 hmm, possibly Jan 10 20:51:54 MohammadAG: Well, finally the system is usable. Jan 10 20:52:16 for the time, till it dies :P Jan 10 20:52:27 oh btw Jan 10 20:52:42 * MohammadAG tries to remember bug number Jan 10 20:52:43 bug 10613 ? Jan 10 20:52:59 MohammadAG: without the fix, it's already dead Jan 10 20:53:01 is povbot dead? Jan 10 20:53:01 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/10613 screen glitches on incoming call Jan 10 20:53:14 oh, wrong bug, meh Jan 10 20:53:20 anyway you can check easily by wget'ing or cp'ing a file from elsewhere to /dev/null, and see what's the CPU load to handle WPA Jan 10 20:54:09 SIP decoders are rather lightweight - hell I had brilliant SIP with my 300MHz P-II panasonic toughbook Jan 10 20:54:15 over WLAN Jan 10 20:54:31 was it bug 7190? Jan 10 20:54:34 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/7190 music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web Jan 10 20:54:53 the link from infobot said to me, its better to lock cpu of n900 to 500 mhz? Jan 10 20:55:08 orangey, try the pulseaudio package there Jan 10 20:56:18 eichi: 500MHz are considered "safe" for the CPU. You nevertheless should never lock the CPU to any freq Jan 10 20:56:34 that's what cpu-frew-governor is for Jan 10 20:56:41 freq* even Jan 10 20:57:50 DocScrutinizer and what is the default from maemo 5 RC ? Jan 10 20:58:36 DocScrutinizer: the n900 locks during calls at 600 by default Jan 10 20:59:21 SIP calls* Jan 10 20:59:38 hi guys Jan 10 20:59:53 my n900 suddenly stopped outputting audio (phone calls, media playback) Jan 10 21:00:12 t900:~# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor Jan 10 21:00:14 ondemand Jan 10 21:00:22 i haven't installed or modfied the system Jan 10 21:01:32 t900:/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq# cat scaling_available_governors Jan 10 21:01:33 ondemand userspace Jan 10 21:02:08 obcecado: it's enough to install or modify an app that messes around with audio Jan 10 21:03:00 the only setting i remember modifying recently was setting camera key to display the dashboard on shortcutd Jan 10 21:03:46 try headset Jan 10 21:04:16 check if you get audio on boot movie shaking_hands Jan 10 21:04:20 no Jan 10 21:05:07 obcecado: It did that to me too Jan 10 21:05:27 Is pulseaudio running? Jan 10 21:05:30 ps|grep pulse Jan 10 21:05:33 i'd be thankful if you pointed me in the right direction :-] Jan 10 21:05:38 I reflashed. Jan 10 21:05:54 i was attempting to dpkg reconfigure it Jan 10 21:06:02 obcecado, lemme guess, you have decoders-support, start pulseaudio shows respawning too fast Jan 10 21:06:06 forget it Jan 10 21:06:24 * MohammadAG stabs libflac8 Jan 10 21:06:29 obcecado: is pulseaudio running? running? Jan 10 21:06:35 no it is not Jan 10 21:06:38 oh, MohammadAG got there first Jan 10 21:06:46 start pulseaudio in a root shell Jan 10 21:07:01 obcecado: xterm: root; start pulseaudio Jan 10 21:07:03 * MohammadAG looks for file Jan 10 21:07:21 he needs to move a file to /usr Jan 10 21:07:29 pulseaudio --system Jan 10 21:07:30 not yet Jan 10 21:07:40 hmm Jan 10 21:07:50 MohammadAG: that diddn't work for me Jan 10 21:07:57 no obcecado Jan 10 21:08:06 start pulseaudio Jan 10 21:08:07 MohammadAG: installing your new package.. Jan 10 21:08:21 incidentally, does anybody know what the sig_call_state_ind is when a call is picked up? Jan 10 21:08:25 I can't find an api list. Jan 10 21:08:29 My hildon app manager just insists on "Operation Failed" and doesn't show me any app. What's wrong about it? Jan 10 21:08:31 I currently am modifying on: com.nokia.mce.signal sig_call_state_ind active Jan 10 21:08:41 obcecado, cp /opt/maemo/usr/lib/libFLAC-8.2.0 /usr/lib Jan 10 21:08:49 but it seems there is another state once the call is 'picked up' that modifies the cpu freq again Jan 10 21:08:52 do that in a root shell, reboot Jan 10 21:08:54 cannot open /sys/devices/plataform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_enable Jan 10 21:08:56 should be fixed Jan 10 21:09:00 SpeedEvil, it did for me Jan 10 21:09:05 its the error message Jan 10 21:09:07 obcecado, you shouldn't do that! Jan 10 21:09:12 when i start pulseaudio Jan 10 21:09:14 I said "start pulseaudio" Jan 10 21:09:20 not start, as a verb Jan 10 21:09:23 it's a command Jan 10 21:09:36 ctrl c and type start pulseaudio Jan 10 21:09:38 or even >>initctl start pulseaudio Jan 10 21:09:54 same, but longer :P Jan 10 21:10:05 yes, but also clearer Jan 10 21:10:07 running Jan 10 21:10:13 after initctl start pulseaudio Jan 10 21:10:20 anyways, do the cp command i pasted, then reboot Jan 10 21:10:23 ok, i got audio Jan 10 21:10:35 :) Jan 10 21:10:35 you'll lose it after a reboot Jan 10 21:10:43 obcecado, cp /opt/maemo/usr/lib/libFLAC-8.2.0 /usr/lib Jan 10 21:10:47 do that Jan 10 21:11:05 PA blows chunks on boot, cause some gashead linked in a lib on /opt to pa-server Jan 10 21:11:10 done that MohammadAG Jan 10 21:11:15 let me reboot Jan 10 21:11:19 obcecado, ah, k Jan 10 21:11:29 crap Jan 10 21:11:34 battery low Jan 10 21:11:37 i need some new batteries Jan 10 21:12:04 atomic ones :-P Jan 10 21:12:19 tada! Jan 10 21:12:22 nokia tune Jan 10 21:12:31 thank you for your help :-] Jan 10 21:12:34 yw Jan 10 21:14:15 (gashead) or in terse: Jan 10 21:14:19 ~optification Jan 10 21:14:20 i heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Jan 10 21:15:53 DocScrutinizer, that might not go well with my name Jan 10 21:16:01 you know, security reasons :p Jan 10 21:16:37 yeah Jan 10 21:18:54 I'm not even allowed to buy glolite here in Germany Jan 10 21:19:42 glolite? Jan 10 21:20:02 synonym for C4? Jan 10 21:20:48 Re-Hi, sorry to bother again, but is anyone familiar with the way, Maemo receives SMS on the N900? Jan 10 21:21:14 nite gloring Jan 10 21:21:26 nite glowring Jan 10 21:21:31 Paolo, just ask Jan 10 21:21:59 GTLS Jan 10 21:22:03 tritium Jan 10 21:22:07 I can perfectly send SMS via AT commands Jan 10 21:22:11 heh Jan 10 21:22:17 However, I recently found out, that Nokia is not using AT commands to receive SMS Jan 10 21:22:37 One can receive SMS via dbus Jan 10 21:22:44 Paolo: there's no system you can provide more storage to Jan 10 21:22:45 by using the SMS plugin on "csd" Jan 10 21:23:08 but the csd plugin complains about "outOfStorage" Jan 10 21:23:17 yeah devs are supposed to use csd Jan 10 21:23:21 you either need to check if df -h shows any fs is 100% filled Jan 10 21:23:22 and I don't know, which app is actually receiving the SMS resp. providing the sms storage Jan 10 21:23:57 or you got a problem with your SIM storage Jan 10 21:24:26 or the database that stores the SMS is defect Jan 10 21:24:49 I think telepathy receives the message with a plugin and stores it in the chat db Jan 10 21:25:12 yep, sth along that line Jan 10 21:25:18 So, telepathy get's the incoming SMS from phonet and puts it on dbus? Jan 10 21:25:37 anyway you can't allocate more stoage to any system. This isn't MacOS9 Jan 10 21:25:51 @DocScrutinizer: It's not about the amount of storage Jan 10 21:25:56 SMS are not put on dbus Jan 10 21:25:58 what I need is a way to receive SMS Jan 10 21:26:17 I don't care where they are stored, I just like to know, which app is receiving them and how it is done ;) Jan 10 21:26:26 they are stored in a SQLite3 db Jan 10 21:26:30 there's a wiki page about it Jan 10 21:26:52 Paolo: either or Jan 10 21:26:53 ah cool, so there is a system daemon receiving the sms directly from phonet? Jan 10 21:27:10 either you want to know how it's done or you don't care where they are stored Jan 10 21:27:13 why? do you intend on getting rid of csd? Jan 10 21:28:58 AIUI telepathy receives SMS from phonet/csd and stores them to a db Jan 10 21:29:43 no one can tell me, how to erase all data from my n800? Jan 10 21:30:01 thirt time i ask and cant belive no one can give me an answer Jan 10 21:30:06 The problem is the following: I want to use the GSM modem for sending and receiving SMS. However, the csd plugin 'sms' complains about missing Storage, and I'd like to know, which service is actually providing this space. The goal is to have a very minimalistic OS without GUI etc. Jan 10 21:30:54 eichi: flash FIASCO + EMMC images, mount on windows/Linux box and delete everything in the mounted drive, rm -rf /home/user once umounted ? Jan 10 21:31:04 However, I can't find any info on the net, how the SMS are actually recieved from the modem Jan 10 21:31:31 If it is possible to circumvent csd to make the system smaller, that would be great Jan 10 21:32:02 eichi: eh? Jan 10 21:33:05 DocScrutinizer on "normal" devices, i just use a livecd and shred the storages with one or two random overwrites Jan 10 21:33:07 ok where's my port of google goggles for maemo Jan 10 21:33:10 @DocScrutinizer: I just want to know, how it's done and how I can receive them, where they are stored is not my first concern. Jan 10 21:33:22 but dont know, what to do on n800 Jan 10 21:33:24 Paolo: the system providing the space is: (bottom-up) eMMC, filesystem, SQL db, telepathy Jan 10 21:33:51 eichi: ah, on N800 iirc just flash a new FIASCO image and you lose everything Jan 10 21:33:55 ok, but how does telepathy gets the SMS? ;) Jan 10 21:33:59 Paolo, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42973 Jan 10 21:34:08 Paolo: where's the difference between "prociding the space" and "storing sth"? Jan 10 21:34:51 Paolo: as mentioned before, telepathy is talking to libisi/phonet/csd Jan 10 21:34:55 lardman but the image does not fill the full storage. that why you can install aplications and store your caledar. i'm not shure, this space is overwriten with only a reflash Jan 10 21:35:08 any of those Jan 10 21:35:33 eichi: try it and see? Jan 10 21:35:58 those are stored in hidden dirs under /home/user, so ls -rtla /home/user/* Jan 10 21:36:03 lardman dont want to disassambly the flash sorate and try some recovery tools .. Jan 10 21:36:38 eh? Jan 10 21:37:01 you're worried someone will still be able to recover your data? Jan 10 21:37:05 you don't understand my problem? i dont want to sell it, any maybe some free recovers my calendar and stuff Jan 10 21:37:17 *freak Jan 10 21:37:25 I just told you where the data are stored, flash it and see if they vanish Jan 10 21:38:09 its common for me, to overwrite storage before selling? why? i bought a hdd from ebay and recoverd lots of porn, personal documents and stuff. why? because this persond dont cared about it. i'm not a person like he/she was Jan 10 21:39:10 lardman how can I shure, that the data is secure from a recovery tool, if you take out storage from n800 Jan 10 21:39:12 so you also want to overwite the storage? Jan 10 21:39:19 i dont know the person, which bought it Jan 10 21:39:21 that I don't know Jan 10 21:39:27 hi Jan 10 21:39:41 whats the sources.list for pr1.3? Jan 10 21:39:48 http://pupnik.de/photos/Summer_Skin_Beetle_sm.html Jan 10 21:40:35 lardman if its to hard, then I have to live without overwriting, thougt it is easy, maybe with flasher, but thanks Jan 10 21:41:03 eichi: it would be possible to craft a custom bootloader to overwrite the partition I guess, but I'm not sure how the jffs2 abstraction will work with that Jan 10 21:41:19 eichi: so the answer is I don't know Jan 10 21:41:33 for sdk Jan 10 21:41:44 eichi: sorry Jan 10 21:44:26 Hmm... maybe I should make myself more clear, this whole storage thing is a bit confusing... When using AT+CPMS, there is different storage, where the GSM modem can store SMS. However on Nokia phones, this command is not available. Therefore SMS are received by another way. Assuming I have a complete clean init process, where I first start dbus, sscd, mce and csd with the "sms" plugin, the sms plugin complains about missing storage. This I assume is a user s Jan 10 21:44:26 pace app or some daemon providing a storage interface such that csd can store the SMS. Jan 10 21:46:51 Paolo: those AT commands are old. Jan 10 21:46:52 So, what I'd like to know is: a) what is this app / daemon / whatever that provides the storage (and thus registers on dbus) or b) how can I receive SMS from the modem without csd Jan 10 21:47:14 Paolo: on n900 you are not supposed to talk to modem directly Jan 10 21:47:16 Modern terminals wont provide that interface anymore. Jan 10 21:47:20 I know ;) Jan 10 21:47:24 Paolo: you are supposed to get messages from telepathy Jan 10 21:47:36 I.E. dbus .. Jan 10 21:48:47 hmm... ok, thanks, I'll have a look into telepathy then Jan 10 21:49:20 Paolo: it would help if you told us exactly what you want Jan 10 21:49:44 If you just want to listen for SMS messages, then just monitor the appropriate dbus signals Jan 10 21:49:59 alterego: that's the problem Jan 10 21:50:11 I am still missing a service, therefore the csd 'sms' plugin doesn't work Jan 10 21:50:22 What are you talking about? Jan 10 21:50:25 What are you missing? Jan 10 21:50:49 I need a very very very small minimalistic OS which is just capable of using the GSM modem to send / receive SMS Jan 10 21:51:02 therefore, I only want to start the necessary apps Jan 10 21:51:04 Look at meego Jan 10 21:51:05 Paolo: where? Jan 10 21:51:08 Paolo: on n900? Jan 10 21:51:11 yes Jan 10 21:51:29 Paolo: build a very minimal meego rootfs with ofono and telepathy Jan 10 21:51:29 then you need full os Jan 10 21:51:31 Done. Jan 10 21:51:34 or meego Jan 10 21:52:34 jacekowski: not quite ;) I already extracted the essential libs and binaries, thus I can initalise the modem, activate the sim and send SMS Jan 10 21:52:44 the only thing I'm missing is the receiving part Jan 10 21:53:00 o.O Jan 10 21:53:16 which fails, since csd is missing its storage, and I can't figure out, which app I'm missing :D Jan 10 21:53:31 sqlite? Jan 10 21:53:33 * alterego chuckles Jan 10 21:53:33 strace? Jan 10 21:53:39 ldd Jan 10 21:53:48 nope, did that already Jan 10 21:53:50 all libs are present Jan 10 21:53:52 no ldd wouldnt help Jan 10 21:53:59 strace it Jan 10 21:54:02 I did Jan 10 21:54:11 the problem is not the plugin itself, it starts / loads fine into csd Jan 10 21:54:13 do it right Jan 10 21:54:33 however, once it is running, it is looking for storage, which is not present Jan 10 21:54:40 woglinde: thanks, that was helpful Jan 10 21:55:16 but where? Jan 10 21:55:17 Seriously, just use the meego stack .. Jan 10 21:55:28 strace should listed the failed path Jan 10 21:55:45 * MohammadAG wants a camera only OS Jan 10 21:56:07 no services, one X server, no window manager Jan 10 21:56:26 MohammadAG: but where are you going to save your pictures? you clearly need some FS drivers Jan 10 21:56:28 why the xserver? Jan 10 21:56:37 also yeah, framebuffer ftw :) Jan 10 21:56:54 'ello Jan 10 21:57:17 My gf is so hawt, she's fallen asleep next to be with tissue shoved up both nostrils Jan 10 21:57:20 Snoring .. Jan 10 21:57:37 aww, how cute Jan 10 21:57:43 alterego, hawt!¨ Jan 10 21:58:02 Every now-and-again she wakes up and coughs her guts up, Jan 10 21:58:05 Then passes out again. Jan 10 21:58:26 heh Jan 10 21:58:29 hey crashanddie_ Jan 10 21:58:35 now that we're sharing warstories, one of my three 3 year olds just threw up in his bed. Jan 10 21:58:46 fun times. Jan 10 21:58:52 Eek :) Jan 10 21:58:55 Was it ice cream? Jan 10 21:59:05 looked like rice Jan 10 21:59:10 There's something about kid puke after a milkshake or a load of ice cream that makes me vomit .. Jan 10 21:59:22 he threw up before, so it wasn't unexpected or anything. Jan 10 21:59:54 * lcuk has a photo of lue throwing up Jan 10 21:59:57 onto me Jan 10 22:00:01 luke * Jan 10 22:00:10 kids are fun Jan 10 22:00:10 lcuk no thanks Jan 10 22:00:31 mece yeah Jan 10 22:00:36 woglinde, are you sure Jan 10 22:00:38 i could scan it in Jan 10 22:00:47 i think its in legacy format still Jan 10 22:00:47 Right, now to render GL with a transparent background, this ought to be interesting. Jan 10 22:00:59 Paolo: just get normal os, and add stuff on top of it Jan 10 22:01:22 jacekowski: that's what I am doing... Jan 10 22:01:24 aaanyway, anyone know about .pro file magic and how to make make it include the qml files in a build? Jan 10 22:01:36 taking out the essential parts of maemo handling the gsm Jan 10 22:01:42 mece use madde? Jan 10 22:01:50 alterego: what are you doing with ogl? Jan 10 22:02:04 woglinde, well I was hoping to get it done with nokia qt sdk Jan 10 22:02:05 mece: do you mean copy your qml files into your package? Jan 10 22:02:14 alterego, yes. Jan 10 22:02:20 mece: hang on I'll pastie an example./ Jan 10 22:02:27 alterego, thankeesai Jan 10 22:02:27 wait what Jan 10 22:02:28 is meego also using csd? Jan 10 22:02:28 mece look the examples Jan 10 22:02:34 there are plenty Jan 10 22:02:39 qml files aren't made into .cpp/.h files? Jan 10 22:02:39 paolo no Jan 10 22:02:41 ofono Jan 10 22:02:48 woglinde, the examples didn't seem to help Jan 10 22:02:51 MohammadAG, no Jan 10 22:02:54 and ofono cna deal with SMS easily? Jan 10 22:02:55 use the other Jan 10 22:03:04 paolo dont know Jan 10 22:03:08 never used it Jan 10 22:03:27 me neither, and I already put a lot of effort into maemo and am that close to solving my problems, just that missing part... Jan 10 22:03:34 don't want to re-do that again with meego Jan 10 22:03:47 paolo try to write to the maemo-dev mailinglist Jan 10 22:04:10 mece, meh, so you're not running C++ binaries on device Jan 10 22:04:48 yes i am Jan 10 22:05:02 but they include qml stuff in a qdeclarativeview Jan 10 22:05:04 no, i meant the qml parts Jan 10 22:05:08 hmm Jan 10 22:05:11 mece: this is what I di: http://pastie.org/1446577 Jan 10 22:05:14 s/di/do/ Jan 10 22:05:15 alterego meant: mece: this is what I do: http://pastie.org/1446577 Jan 10 22:05:23 but anyone can read the qml right? Jan 10 22:05:51 alterego Jan 10 22:05:53 baha Jan 10 22:05:54 Paolo: MeeGo will be easy, you can create your own .ks file which will generate a super minimal rootfs ready for flashing straight away. It's worth the investment seriously. Jan 10 22:05:58 thats an ugly .pro file Jan 10 22:06:23 woglinde, show a better one or stfu :P Jan 10 22:06:26 woglinde: yes, it looks really ugly doesn't it .... Jan 10 22:06:47 woglinde: I find it more visually appealing than the shit Qt Creator generates by default .. Jan 10 22:06:58 Admittedly I should probably not have all those graphics in OTHER_FILES .. Jan 10 22:07:15 hmm i find it looks a lot like mine.. Jan 10 22:07:27 i just don't have the maemo5 bits right Jan 10 22:07:43 altergo yes Jan 10 22:07:51 yes what? Jan 10 22:08:16 alright, thanks for the help, I'll look into meego, ofono, telepathy a.s.o. Jan 10 22:08:19 about the images Jan 10 22:08:31 And is that your reasoning for it being "ugly"? Jan 10 22:09:01 Paolo: it'll be well easy, just in your .ks file put "ofono" and "telepathy" Jan 10 22:09:03 :) Jan 10 22:09:04 yes Jan 10 22:09:14 Then it should import all required deps that you need and you're set. Jan 10 22:09:32 woglinde, well, that's a pretty bs reason tbh :P Jan 10 22:09:45 What if I had that many .qml files! Jan 10 22:09:49 hah Jan 10 22:10:08 i'm sure it's sexier than nokia's code Jan 10 22:10:19 Much more simple too. Jan 10 22:13:03 * lardman lols at Tool Academy, the new E4 wunder-series Jan 10 22:13:05 alterego, does the qml ui benefit from opengl in your application? Jan 10 22:13:24 * lardman then cries that he's watching such shit and turns the telly off Jan 10 22:13:53 lardman: please don't watch telly Jan 10 22:14:10 go beat people up instead Jan 10 22:14:16 :) Jan 10 22:14:34 mece: in mine, yes. Jan 10 22:14:42 * lardman opts for heading to bed instead Jan 10 22:14:44 night all Jan 10 22:14:48 mece: try it with and without :) Jan 10 22:16:10 alterego, I guess I need to do something in my (5 line long) c++ file to make use of it.. Jan 10 22:17:18 mece: I'll post hang on, it's like one line ;) Jan 10 22:17:26 alterego, thanks :D Jan 10 22:18:25 mece: http://pastie.org/1446618 Jan 10 22:19:54 LOL Jan 10 22:20:03 there's a golden egg in the angry birds credits Jan 10 22:20:07 just scroll down Jan 10 22:20:30 and the level's hard as hell Jan 10 22:20:56 it's called easter egg Jan 10 22:21:09 golden egg :P Jan 10 22:21:15 easter egg Jan 10 22:21:24 eh Jan 10 22:21:37 it's golden in the game's menu :P Jan 10 22:21:39 alterego: settle this dispute Jan 10 22:22:11 Literally, it is a golden in the credits, which exposes an easter egg feature :P Jan 10 22:22:22 s/golden/golden egg/ Jan 10 22:22:23 alterego meant: Literally, it is a golden egg in the credits, which exposes an easter egg feature :P Jan 10 22:22:43 no, it's called golden eggs in the level selector, those are easter eggs Jan 10 22:22:59 * MohammadAG stabs a random tree Jan 10 22:25:01 Okay, yeah, you're right, it's a normal Golden egg, just cunningly hidden :) Jan 10 22:45:34 hi all Jan 10 22:45:39 happy new year ;) Jan 10 22:52:11 alterego, what qt stuff do you include in your main.cpp? Jan 10 22:52:37 seems not to exist Jan 10 22:53:08 wit.. Jan 10 22:53:10 wait.. Jan 10 22:53:10 HAve you got QT += opengl? Jan 10 22:53:11 opos Jan 10 22:53:13 lo...trying to build a package in scratchbox, i cant get past this error dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in debian/control at line 10: first block lacks a source field Jan 10 22:53:15 yesh Jan 10 22:53:16 … Jan 10 22:53:19 mece, it's foss Jan 10 22:53:26 is QtOpenGL likely to support Maemo which doesn't have OPenGL? Jan 10 22:53:41 xbox 360 remote Jan 10 22:54:05 MohammadAG, true that :) Jan 10 22:54:58 luke-jr: of course it does. Jan 10 22:55:03 Hi all. Question; is garage.maemo.org also down for you? Jan 10 22:55:34 meh, I hate lag Jan 10 22:55:35 QtOpenGL has platform independant support for OpenGL 1.x and 2.x as well as OpenGL ES 1.X and 2.0 Jan 10 23:08:39 Calciumcarbonate: yes, i have trouble accessing it as well Jan 10 23:11:43 You are kidding. Jan 10 23:11:49 After 10 years: Experimental packages for Symbian development on Linux Jan 10 23:12:08 just in time for the transition to bsd :P Jan 10 23:12:15 Heh Jan 10 23:14:09 alterego, they're out? Jan 10 23:19:36 ah found it, http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/12/17/experimental-packages-for-symbian-development-on-linux/ Jan 10 23:20:18 meh, 32 bit Jan 10 23:25:52 * ds3 adds HCl to CaCO3 Jan 10 23:28:21 lol ds3 Jan 10 23:29:37 holy join/part spam batman Jan 10 23:30:56 stop performing a resouce exaustion attack on my irc logs plz Jan 10 23:35:20 hmm Jan 10 23:35:30 error: QSqlDriver: No such file or directory Jan 10 23:35:37 where is that file coming from? Jan 10 23:36:10 hmm i found it Jan 10 23:47:09 bah Jan 10 23:47:13 the N8 doesn't have 4.7 Jan 10 23:54:13 Mohammad: The horror! The suffering! Jan 10 23:54:23 Mohammad: There should be a .sis package for it though Jan 10 23:56:04 In addition, currently you cannot use this approach to develop for the N8, because Qt 4.7.1 is not installable there. When N8 receives its first phone update however, it will be upgraded to Qt 4.7.1, and then you should be able to deploy on it. Jan 10 23:57:00 well, it's not my phone Jan 10 23:57:08 so I don't want to f with it :p Jan 10 23:57:41 ok, who wants me to ban CACO3 Jan 10 23:58:24 too late DocScrutinizer :p Jan 10 23:58:28 kick him a few times first, with really cool ironic kick messages,then ban! Jan 10 23:58:34 pheeeew Jan 10 23:59:02 hmm Jan 10 23:59:10 * MohammadAG wonders how to detect device orientation in Qt Jan 10 23:59:26 RST38h: I have to check the logs again if he really is logged in long enough for me to kick him Jan 10 23:59:49 MohammadAG: Fahrplan does portrait now :-D Jan 11 00:00:06 fahrplan? Jan 11 00:00:18 Fahrplan Jan 11 00:00:19 I can't use the official Qt way of doing it for what I want Jan 11 00:00:29 the Qt way is to detect screen resolution changes Jan 11 00:00:38 if width is more than height, then it's landscape Jan 11 00:00:59 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-rotation.html Jan 11 00:01:10 *burp* Jan 11 00:01:12 RST38h, as I said, I don't want to flip the desktop Jan 11 00:01:26 I want to flip the UI elements, while keeping the desktop in landscape mode Jan 11 00:01:28 Mohammad: actually, detecting screen resolution and adapting to it IS the right way Jan 11 00:01:39 RST38h, not in this case Jan 11 00:01:47 Hmmm Jan 11 00:02:08 it is the most general way though, also accepts other resolutions Jan 11 00:02:21 MohammadAG: what are currently working on? :) Jan 11 00:02:27 RST38h, true, but in this case, I'm keeping the actual window 800x480 Jan 11 00:02:34 mikki-kun, same, mediaplayer Jan 11 00:02:45 with portrait-support? :o Jan 11 00:02:46 but hildon-desktop will slow down some parts of it if I allow rotation that way Jan 11 00:02:57 uh, that's already in there Jan 11 00:03:01 Ö.ö Jan 11 00:03:05 but the video player will support portrait Jan 11 00:03:35 *BURP* Jan 11 00:03:55 with orientation lock Jan 11 00:04:02 :p Jan 11 00:04:05 MohammadAG: my media player doesn't go portrait Jan 11 00:04:12 (that's been a cinema operator burp Jan 11 00:04:14 mikki-kun, ... Jan 11 00:04:15 ) Jan 11 00:04:29 http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/?p=26 mikki-kun Jan 11 00:04:56 ahhhh, i thought you meant it was already built in into pr 1.3 :) sorry for that :/ Jan 11 00:05:24 lol Jan 11 00:07:15 the n900 should consider itself lucky it has MohammadAG ^^ Jan 11 00:07:31 Any way to make pnatd log the pseudo modem chat? Jan 11 00:07:56 * DocScrutinizer wonders idly if there are any movies in "portrait ratio" Jan 11 00:09:03 DocScrutinizer, hey, meego does it :p Jan 11 00:09:08 and no, there aren't Jan 11 00:09:14 yacc: any way to quit pnatd without sending a kill ? Jan 11 00:09:34 whuzza Jan 11 00:09:35 DocScrutinizer? Jan 11 00:09:58 yacc: how do you quit pnatd? Jan 11 00:10:05 there are movies in portrait mode... they are called facetime by apple Jan 11 00:10:17 Mohammad: just rotating all widgets or what? =) Jan 11 00:10:19 B*U*R*P Jan 11 00:10:20 DocScrutinizer: Not at all I guess, why? Jan 11 00:10:43 good idea to hack up and have some fun with meego on windows? Jan 11 00:10:46 yacc: because that proves pnatd is braindamaged Jan 11 00:11:25 DocScrutinizer: Well, you can close the tty I guess, that's how the "SMS send via pnatd" scripts seem to work? Jan 11 00:11:30 DosScrutinizer: send a sigterm instead of sigkill? :D Jan 11 00:12:00 RST38h, rotate the widgets, keep the window normal Jan 11 00:12:01 kill -SIG??? may do Jan 11 00:12:25 DocScrutinizer: Anyway, compared to Android connectivity (well in this case it's Archos code, so don't blame Google, but WLAN in Android is rather primitive to be nice), pnatd looks like perfect stuff :) Jan 11 00:12:30 Mohammad: Are you modifying hildon-desktop by any chance? ;) Jan 11 00:12:43 DocScrutinizer: yeah, but how do I log the traffic going into pnatd? Jan 11 00:12:49 RST38h, no no lol Jan 11 00:13:07 yacc: wait til you try to use perfectly standard mandatory AT commands not supported by pnatd Jan 11 00:13:12 DocScrutinizer: Or actually, I'd like to have the full debugging log of the ppp LCP negotiation going on. Jan 11 00:13:38 yacc: (log traffic) is this so difficult? Write a wrapper Jan 11 00:13:40 RST38h: he is secretly working on it, he ust can't cope with that much fame ;) ^^ Jan 11 00:14:07 Mohammad: seriously though, if you just want screen orientation, query the accelerometer Jan 11 00:14:10 DocScrutinizer: yeah, wait till you have to try out WLAN APs till you find some that are good and work with Archos, while an iPhone, the N900 and a couple of laptops have no issues with these, ... Jan 11 00:14:22 frooodledoodle | tee mylog | pnatd Jan 11 00:15:27 RST38h, there should be a Qt way Jan 11 00:15:47 DocScrutinizer: actually the equivalent of the pppd log for the LCP negotiation would be more useful, byte-analyzing pppd traffic does not sound THAT sexy. (Gosh, I'm getting old, a decade past I'd be happy to do some byte level hacking), .... Jan 11 00:16:27 pfff, it's AT Jan 11 00:16:39 Mohammad: Qt way would be via QtMobility Jan 11 00:16:39 plain text Jan 11 00:17:50 pppd traffic is payload Jan 11 00:19:02 ROOAAAR, there's a * Jan 11 00:19:05 beer* Jan 11 00:19:29 PLOP said the cap Jan 11 00:21:09 dude! battry went flat after some 7h :-( Jan 11 00:21:37 and just 3 of them on GPRS, rest WLAN Jan 11 00:21:54 RST38h, yeah, looking for the class I need Jan 11 00:24:11 who thinks it's a poor concept when Nokia decides to have elementary system protection functions - like thermal control and shutdown - in a closed source userland daemon rather than in kernel where it belongs? Jan 11 00:26:34 QSensors? Jan 11 00:26:48 the only system architecture where such an approach would be faintly bearable is if the device hardare would deal with forced shutdown unrelated to any software running Jan 11 00:27:00 RST38h: bme Jan 11 00:28:26 * yacc takes the advanced course on soft-bricking his N900 Jan 11 00:28:50 DocScrutinizer: payload? As in it's only forwarded to the mobile network and not interpreted in any way on the N900? Jan 11 00:28:52 soft-bricks? sounds like kindergarden Jan 11 00:29:10 DocScrutinizer: no sounds like installing Debian Sid debs ;) Jan 11 00:29:23 as in pnatd doesn't interpret any of it Jan 11 00:30:03 DocScrutinizer: What interprets it? Jan 11 00:30:06 still better than closed source kernel modules imo Jan 11 00:30:14 dunno - maybe pppd Jan 11 00:30:58 diabol: heh, but they were not allowed to use closed kernel modules :-P That's why they did it this way Jan 11 00:31:12 good thing Jan 11 00:31:20 hmm, not really Jan 11 00:31:44 well, scrap and rewrite. i mean how hard can it be (famous last words xD) Jan 11 00:31:50 it's closed either way. But for the kernel modules you could at least rely on it Jan 11 00:32:14 yeah, really famous last words. Jan 11 00:32:31 mainwindow.h:23: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'QSensor' with no type Jan 11 00:32:34 ffs what does it mean? Jan 11 00:32:35 bme is a monster, and nothing even of the interfaces is documented Jan 11 00:32:57 sooo, i'm about to set up a dualboot to meego on my n900, any advice? Jan 11 00:33:07 yeah, are you a dev? :P Jan 11 00:33:15 yeah, check out meego.com Jan 11 00:33:22 check and check Jan 11 00:33:28 or whatever might be the name Jan 11 00:33:33 saw the scary charging bug and the uboot stuff Jan 11 00:33:46 then you're good to go Jan 11 00:33:47 charging bug? LOL Jan 11 00:33:50 you can't complain how it sucks Jan 11 00:33:51 sigh, strace from sid just installed without any need for forces, I'm feeling sick, ... Jan 11 00:33:58 there's charging in meego for N900? Jan 11 00:34:00 cause you're a dev :p Jan 11 00:34:05 DocScrutinizer, yes Jan 11 00:34:18 DocScrutinizer: apparently using a usb-cable to computer :D Jan 11 00:34:20 bwahaHAHAHAHA Jan 11 00:34:22 it's actually quite good Jan 11 00:34:25 after long struggles Jan 11 00:34:30 I use it as a hand warmer sometimes Jan 11 00:34:38 lol Jan 11 00:34:38 (btw, it uses bme) Jan 11 00:34:40 LOL Jan 11 00:34:48 yeah, got that Jan 11 00:35:05 MohammadAG: ok, so can it actually use the wall charger? Jan 11 00:35:09 and with no mce to shut off the display, which is running at max brightness Jan 11 00:35:12 DocScrutinizer: no pppd binary on the N900 :( Jan 11 00:35:12 and also expected it would be buggy and ever will be Jan 11 00:35:16 yep, pretty good hand warmer Jan 11 00:35:20 diabol, it does, sometimes Jan 11 00:35:33 yacc: sorry I have nfc what you try to do Jan 11 00:35:34 great Jan 11 00:36:07 MeeGo really needs devs right now Jan 11 00:36:14 sadly, it's repelling them, in some ways Jan 11 00:36:15 pfff Jan 11 00:36:20 yes Jan 11 00:36:23 exactly Jan 11 00:36:42 DocScrutinizer: Well, I'm trying to debug why my Archos cannot DUN tether to the N900. The pppd debugging level on the Archos side is not that great, hence the idea to capture the debugging log of the LCP negotiation on the N900, ... Jan 11 00:37:03 "WAIT! come with patches when we're done! and: IS IT UPSTREAM??" Jan 11 00:37:54 "docs? what docs? we do it the standard way, just tweaked to match the usecase" Jan 11 00:38:36 why exactly did the "alternative os" projects like mir die anyways? Jan 11 00:38:57 devs getting real life? Jan 11 00:39:05 mer* Jan 11 00:39:15 aye Jan 11 00:39:15 MeeGo came Jan 11 00:39:34 devs like stskeeps (mer) are actively developing meego now Jan 11 00:39:38 That and they realised it wasn't as easy as they thought it might. Jan 11 00:39:45 but meego doesnt seem nice from what ive seen so far (which is not a lot :D) Jan 11 00:40:02 diabol:and what have we seen so far? Jan 11 00:40:22 some random screenshots of preview versions xD Jan 11 00:40:29 and the wall charger bug Jan 11 00:40:42 diabol, screenshots always look nice :p Jan 11 00:40:47 Oh, I see we have seen different things... Jan 11 00:40:51 those didnt :D Jan 11 00:40:53 photoshopped ones look awesome Jan 11 00:40:57 xD Jan 11 00:40:58 maemo has years and years of community support doing the devels' duty of documenting how to deal with the shit. Meego otoh is completely missing such docs Jan 11 00:41:41 are there still any active maemo devs anyways or is it really dead? Jan 11 00:42:01 diabol: look at the forum and tell us if you think it's dev. Jan 11 00:42:11 there are a few Jan 11 00:42:12 I think there's still just as much activity as there was a year ago tbh .. Jan 11 00:42:16 it is dead Jan 11 00:42:20 nothing to see here Jan 11 00:42:23 Heh Jan 11 00:42:35 alterego, it kinda got more active in september Jan 11 00:42:37 which is weird Jan 11 00:42:44 then it went down again Jan 11 00:42:48 Weird? PR1.3 weird? :P Jan 11 00:42:58 I was waiting for 4.7 :D Jan 11 00:43:06 WTF!? at least 20% of users in this chan are devels Jan 11 00:43:09 pr4.7? weird. Jan 11 00:43:13 Now I'm waiting for 4.8 :( Jan 11 00:43:25 i rather dont look at the maemo.org forums, they are uhg, hard on the eyes Jan 11 00:43:26 Doc: But does he need to know that? =) Jan 11 00:44:06 and probably 90% of those are idlers :P Jan 11 00:44:22 RST38h: ok, no he doesn't Jan 11 00:46:37 sooo on my checklist to hacking up and prettifying my n900 i've got no 1 pinned down: find out where the devs hang out (check) Jan 11 00:46:51 RST38h: and goddamn fix your irc-client - it for sure supports tab-nickcompletion Jan 11 00:47:16 alterego, any ideas why this errors out if(sensor->reading() = QOrientationReading::TopUp) ? Jan 11 00:47:31 What error? Jan 11 00:47:39 DocScrutinizer: Or tell it to colon complete. Jan 11 00:47:47 mainwindow.cpp:22: error: lvalue required as left operand of assignment Jan 11 00:47:57 When we are at it, is there a way to query the expected upstream bandwidth of the current GSM/UMTS connection? Jan 11 00:48:01 MohammadAG: sensor->reading() == QOrientation... Jan 11 00:48:10 Heh Jan 11 00:48:16 diabol: saw it :P Jan 11 00:48:16 that errors out too :P Jan 11 00:48:21 SpeedEvil: tab was a placeholder for a concept Jan 11 00:48:23 lol Jan 11 00:48:28 mainwindow.cpp:22: error: conversion from 'QtMobility::QOrientationReading*' to 'QChar' is ambiguous Jan 11 00:48:32 I had it that way at first Jan 11 00:48:36 SpeedEvil: colon-complete is a nice idea actually Jan 11 00:48:45 you surely dont want it to be an assignment Jan 11 00:48:51 Never used the sensor api, hang on Jan 11 00:49:11 alterego: find a way to cast it ! Jan 11 00:49:20 alterego, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1-tp/qorientationreading.html Jan 11 00:49:25 * diabol plays the batman melody Jan 11 00:49:26 yacc: nope Jan 11 00:49:41 cenceptually not Jan 11 00:49:48 con* Jan 11 00:49:50 DocScrutinizer: Well, does the path Jan 11 00:49:57 does the path buffer packages? Jan 11 00:50:13 sorry? Jan 11 00:50:47 MohammadAG: use if(sensor->orientation == QOrientationReading::TopUp) Jan 11 00:50:54 damn Jan 11 00:51:02 alterego, I did that, it doesn't work Jan 11 00:51:06 oh Jan 11 00:51:08 orientation Jan 11 00:51:09 sensor->orientation() .. Jan 11 00:51:10 * MohammadAG facepalms Jan 11 00:51:12 you mean orientation() Jan 11 00:51:14 DAMN Jan 11 00:51:45 mainwindow.cpp:22: error: 'class QtMobility::QOrientationSensor' has no member named 'orientation' Jan 11 00:51:47 lol Jan 11 00:51:47 DocScrutinizer: well, basically, does the upstream path buffer packages, or does it drop packages quickly? Jan 11 00:52:01 O_o Jan 11 00:52:08 What version of mobility are you using? Jan 11 00:52:18 sensor->reading()->orientation() Jan 11 00:52:19 Baring in mind we have 1.0.1 on the N900 .. Jan 11 00:52:24 yacc: I'm not sure about that, but I think it shouldn't drop packages easily Jan 11 00:52:25 the class is called QOrientationReading Jan 11 00:52:27 Yeah, that then :P Jan 11 00:52:31 not QOrientationSensro Jan 11 00:52:32 DocScrutinizer: I've just discovered how much nicer my cable modem works if I suppress it's buffer, ... Jan 11 00:52:35 bam Jan 11 00:52:57 Like I said, I've not touched the sensor APIs :P Jan 11 00:53:00 DocScrutinizer: Actually, the reverse is true, TCP relies on quick package drops to gauge the available bandwidth. Jan 11 00:53:11 alterego, tbh, I thought you helped noobmonk3y Jan 11 00:53:13 * alterego continues his meandering through GLES2 Jan 11 00:53:15 ooh you mean packets .) Jan 11 00:53:16 his source code shows m_sensor Jan 11 00:53:21 that's how you name objects Jan 11 00:53:27 yacc, Jan 11 00:53:38 yacc: tbh I'm not sure I know what you're talking about Jan 11 00:53:51 MohammadAG: that's sort of standard c++ practise :) Jan 11 00:53:53 yacc: trying to fit in pnatd and GPRS Jan 11 00:54:09 heh Jan 11 00:54:18 DocScrutinizer, s/packages/packets/ Jan 11 00:54:19 alterego, tbh, I think their QSensor API is shit Jan 11 00:54:29 3070 3057 root R 15956 6.4 10.1 /usr/local/bin/orientationtes Jan 11 00:54:38 nox-: that's not my main problem Jan 11 00:54:42 i wish somebody would take the best of c# and put it into c++ *sigh* Jan 11 00:54:42 10% CPU usage, the whole mediaplayer doesn't use that Jan 11 00:54:44 heh Jan 11 00:54:52 Why's it shit? Jan 11 00:55:00 Oh, right. Jan 11 00:55:01 alterego, 10% cpu usage Jan 11 00:55:02 Interesting. Jan 11 00:55:07 and it's not the first time Jan 11 00:55:19 I just presumed it listened for dbus signals .. Jan 11 00:55:20 when Venemo patched in QSensors into mediabar, it showed the same Jan 11 00:55:27 and that's why I didn't release that Jan 11 00:56:03 :) Jan 11 00:56:12 hmm Jan 11 00:56:17 DocScrutinizer: a little buffer suppression in the cable modem via QoS and I can interactively work via ssh, while bittorrent is hitting the connection at maximum. (It's another topic, not related to pnatd ;) it's about latency, which is bad with mobiles anyway at best). Jan 11 00:57:08 yacc: sorry but I never seen a buffer in my DSL modem, not to mention how to suppress it. Maybe you're talking to a noob Jan 11 00:57:33 alterego, so should I just dump Qt Mobility? Jan 11 00:57:40 MohammadAG: any way to set polling rates in qt mobility? Jan 11 00:57:58 MohammadAG: No, just don't use the sensor API :P Jan 11 00:58:01 yes, setDataRate(int) Jan 11 00:58:16 int is in Hz apparently Jan 11 00:58:19 MohammadAG: also, what freq is your N900 running at with that 10% Jan 11 00:58:28 alterego, stock Jan 11 00:58:31 MohammadAG: what did you set it to? Jan 11 00:58:38 I didn't, it's default (0) Jan 11 00:58:51 Hrm, set it to 1 Jan 11 00:58:55 DocScrutinizer: well almost any cable modem has a buffer. This buffer is actually what is mostly guilty of causing stalled downloads while you max out the upload, because the normal TCP/IP stack relies on timely packet drops. Jan 11 00:58:57 tried that, same :P Jan 11 00:59:01 Heh Jan 11 00:59:20 DocScrutinizer, that's why it makes sense to limit the upstream going to the cable modem at say 99% of the official upstream, ... Jan 11 00:59:23 hmm. I never heard of that Jan 11 00:59:36 lol Jan 11 00:59:41 alterego, setDataRate: rate 1 is not supported by the sensor. Jan 11 00:59:43 also i'd like to test something out regarding polling: if the last change was big, then poll more frequently, if it wasnt poll less frequently Jan 11 00:59:46 lol Jan 11 00:59:47 MohammadAG: I mean what frequency is the CPU running at when it's running that test. Not whether you're oc'ing Jan 11 00:59:47 just noticed that Jan 11 01:00:04 I thought limiting upstream to something below max bandwidth was for geting through ACKs Jan 11 01:00:16 10% isn't bad if it's at it's slowest tbh Jan 11 01:00:21 yacc: That's only partially true. Jan 11 01:00:29 alterego, 500MHz Jan 11 01:00:29 doh! my n900 overheated and died! Jan 11 01:00:34 DocScrutinizer, this way, packets are not queued in the cable modem, instead they are queued in your router. Jan 11 01:00:37 SpeedEvil, ? Jan 11 01:00:39 yacc: If you have multiple contended streams, they only play nicely together if the RTT are comparable. Jan 11 01:00:42 orangey: ? Jan 11 01:00:44 ah, just joking : ) It's been FINALLY working properly Jan 11 01:00:46 DocScrutinizer, http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/ADSL-Bandwidth-Management-HOWTO.html Jan 11 01:01:01 alterego: bad follow-up to earlier in the day Jan 11 01:01:29 alterego: to fix my SIP audio, I finally am fixing the CPU speed to 600 (it was 850 earlier), and was warned against Jan 11 01:01:30 orangey: why are you telling me? :P Jan 11 01:01:33 yacc: If the RTT of a high bandwidth demanding stream is lower than the rest of the traffic, then it can swamp the whole connection. The other connections go to exponential backoff Jan 11 01:01:39 yacc: I'm aware of my router's bw-mgmt, and I think I know how it works. I think we are using incompatible namespace Jan 11 01:01:51 alterego: DocScrutinizer and MohammadAG were doing the warning. it was a bad joke directed at them Jan 11 01:02:12 orangey, I really don't care :p Jan 11 01:02:25 DocScrutinizer, yeah, bandwidth management becomes a little bit easier if you know the total bandwidth available, ... Jan 11 01:02:31 alterego: you're collateral damage. I send a heart-felt apology. Jan 11 01:02:44 orangey: ;) Jan 11 01:03:03 orangey: it's okay, I thought you were telling me one of my apps bricked your device :D Jan 11 01:03:15 alterego: i'm sorry for the angst Jan 11 01:03:41 MohammedAG: wheres the docs for setdatarate? Jan 11 01:03:54 alterego: one thing is that this puppy kills battery while talking now Jan 11 01:04:14 SpeedEvil: thanks for taking over. Your statement is more like my namespace Jan 11 01:04:21 SpeedEvil, yep, sounds very logic. I did not say that managing the upstream bandwidth carefully is a cure-all, but it's usually feelable better at latency/bandwidth quality then without such management, ... Jan 11 01:05:49 diabol, I'm more interested in http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1-tp/qsensor.html#availableDataRates-prop Jan 11 01:05:51 I'm thinking more in terms like MTR & QoS/TOS and buckets. And I have NFC where in my modem there's a buffer that can be surpressed Jan 11 01:06:04 diabol, though I have no idea how to process a "QRangleList" Jan 11 01:06:06 SpeedEvil, if you want to prevent that monopolization you need some QoS outgress queuing, which is again easier (although I think not absolutely necessary) if you know the total bandwidth available. Jan 11 01:06:28 yeah. Jan 11 01:06:41 DocScrutinizer: That was an awesome paragraph. Jan 11 01:06:43 In principle, you can monitor the total number of missing packets Jan 11 01:07:02 orangey: ??? o.O Jan 11 01:07:13 DocScrutinizer: you suppress the buffer by sending slightly less than what the upstream can manage, this way the cable modem never has the need to queue anything. Jan 11 01:07:33 DocScrutinizer: not really knowing much about the field, it sounds impressive.. I feel like I could easily pick up women with that line Jan 11 01:07:41 oooh, yeah I know that trick :-D Jan 11 01:08:06 MohammadAG: working through the docs Jan 11 01:09:04 Abyway, if I got that right, the ppp endpoint doing the negotiations is actually on the mobile network side, and not inside the N900 (no pppd binary on the thing, and pnatd never ever fork/execs anything, while doing some monkey business with sockets that strace cannot translate the PF value of ;) ) Jan 11 01:09:10 Anyway. Jan 11 01:09:26 MohammadAG: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/qt-mobility/blobs/bf5ba42378dcf07038bdd99e24be29ec0aec8091/src/sensors/qsensor.h Jan 11 01:09:43 its typedefined as a QList Jan 11 01:10:00 whereas qrange is a QPair Jan 11 01:10:02 yay Jan 11 01:10:08 hmm, so foreach would work? Jan 11 01:10:25 probably Jan 11 01:10:26 Honest opinion please, how good is qt mobility? Jan 11 01:10:35 doesn't seem too good Jan 11 01:10:36 is it worth rewriting stuff for it? Jan 11 01:10:39 yacc: my modem though has a bw-mgmt that priorizes packets based on arbitrray SPI rules, sets TOS and assigns buckets of BW to the packets. I easily have SIP working great while downloading AND uploading jiggabytes of shit Jan 11 01:11:11 1.21 jigawats? Jan 11 01:11:21 yoh exactly Jan 11 01:11:22 gawd, how about just making gtk and qt work nicely? Jan 11 01:11:26 i already downloaded 160G this month Jan 11 01:11:27 DocScrutinizer: well, my modem is not my property, and managed by callcenter monkeys. Jan 11 01:11:29 and i'm not sure how Jan 11 01:11:47 diabol, O think you can.. I don't see what would be too hard about it Jan 11 01:12:35 jacekowski, as long you don't use TB as the unit, ... Jan 11 01:13:20 buuurrp Jan 11 01:13:38 i almost filled up my 2T hdd Jan 11 01:13:54 and i had it for less than year Jan 11 01:14:04 /dev/md2 1.9T 1.5T 361G 81% /shares/Data Jan 11 01:14:28 I just had a sick idea, write a small program that answers to AT commands with OK, and at ATD forks into pppd on the n900, then you can have a fake Bluetooth DUN that is terminated inside the N900, and uses iptables NAT to share the connection, *scratch-head* Jan 11 01:14:50 what's the point Jan 11 01:15:12 btw. do you know that is how it's done Jan 11 01:15:13 yacc: slirp, it does basically that and it works great. Jan 11 01:15:24 yacc: rapuyama does exactly that Jan 11 01:15:24 why can't i seem to make standard output from a Qt program running on my n900? the exact same code, built for my desktop, works Jan 11 01:15:26 yacc: almost Jan 11 01:15:32 using std::cout << "foo" << std::endl; Jan 11 01:15:33 yacc: funny idea, I'll think about it Jan 11 01:16:07 also built using the same sequence of commands, in scratchbox and in a normal environment Jan 11 01:16:19 there is simply no standard output from the Maemo version Jan 11 01:16:28 DocScrutinizer: I cannot easily fix the pppd options that the stupid Archos uses, and I cannot fix the other endpoint if my network is providing that, ... Jan 11 01:16:31 BCMM: did you try redirecting stdout to a file on the n900? Jan 11 01:16:43 maybe its the terminal or busybox or something Jan 11 01:17:06 diabol: i have tried it now... nothing. Jan 11 01:17:26 uhh Jan 11 01:17:40 (actually, ssh and bash in this case) Jan 11 01:18:08 there is simply no standard output from the Maemo version --> yep that's the point - nah nfc, j/k Jan 11 01:18:08 heh diabol Jan 11 01:18:11 it didn't work :P Jan 11 01:18:15 no clue, maybe qt eats it D: Jan 11 01:18:22 MohammadAG: what? :D Jan 11 01:18:28 DocScrutinizer: sorry, i don't understand Jan 11 01:18:39 nevermind, I'm getting silly Jan 11 01:18:47 http://pastebin.com/tSBMFZtu diabol tried this, and meh :p Jan 11 01:19:01 just thought maybe there *is* no std output Jan 11 01:19:48 DocScrutinizer: it does seem like that, but i'm not sure how that could be the case Jan 11 01:19:58 err what the... Jan 11 01:19:59 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/qt-mobility-1.1.0] > cd plugins/sensors/ Jan 11 01:20:00 dummy/ maemo6/ s60_sensor_api/ simulator/ Jan 11 01:20:00 generic/ n900/ sensors.pro symbian/ Jan 11 01:20:04 maemo6? lol Jan 11 01:20:21 i'm a c++ noob, but it shouldn't be possible for Qt to override std::cout, right? Jan 11 01:20:32 BCMM: does qt have its own debug output streams? Jan 11 01:20:35 BCMM: lsof is your friend Jan 11 01:20:40 qDebug() Jan 11 01:20:43 wrong :D Jan 11 01:20:51 diabol: i was going to look in to using that instead Jan 11 01:20:52 exactly, try using that Jan 11 01:21:05 DocScrutinizer: to see if it's opening stdout? Jan 11 01:21:06 MohammadAG: what does the code say? Jan 11 01:21:11 yep Jan 11 01:21:31 meh Jan 11 01:21:36 Qt mobility is just polling the file Jan 11 01:21:36 thing is, i can't see how it can possibly not work, unless maemo has a weird version of iostream Jan 11 01:21:49 char const * const n900accelerometer::filename("/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord"); Jan 11 01:21:56 LOL Jan 11 01:21:59 BCMM: btw override stdout is simple, even in shellscripts: exec >foobar Jan 11 01:22:08 MohammadAG: you're better off doing that yourself then Jan 11 01:22:14 it doesn't even use QString or QFile Jan 11 01:22:35 it uses fopen() Jan 11 01:22:39 lol Jan 11 01:23:01 oh well that explains why setting rate doesn't work Jan 11 01:23:02 cat: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/rate: No such file or directory Jan 11 01:23:04 somebody was going for a "hey dude, check out what i got working" there Jan 11 01:23:23 MohammadAG: QTmob is as brainfucked wrt accel-sensors as is meego Jan 11 01:23:27 oh wait Jan 11 01:23:36 why did I do that cat in scratchbox... Jan 11 01:23:52 my fault, sowwy :P Jan 11 01:23:54 MohammadAG: you MUST NOT poll the g-meter, there's IRQs for that, and kevents Jan 11 01:23:55 whats scratchbox anyways? Jan 11 01:24:00 ~2119 Jan 11 01:24:01 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. Jan 11 01:24:02 the SDK Jan 11 01:24:18 ic Jan 11 01:24:27 void n900accelerometer::poll() Jan 11 01:24:28 { Jan 11 01:24:28 // Note that this is a rather inefficient way to generate this data. Jan 11 01:24:28 // Ideally the kernel would scale the hardware's values to m/s^2 for us Jan 11 01:24:28 // and give us a timestamp along with that data. Jan 11 01:24:50 Polling can be not so bad. Jan 11 01:24:57 If you do it at a sane rate Jan 11 01:24:57 DAMN Jan 11 01:25:03 somebody had my idea first Jan 11 01:25:08 exactly, but there's much worse shit Jan 11 01:25:15 right. i'm sleeping before i do anything else to this. Jan 11 01:25:17 ...in meego Jan 11 01:25:17 what if every little program does polling at a sane rate? Jan 11 01:25:24 too much sane and you get insane Jan 11 01:25:24 oh nice Jan 11 01:25:25 addDataRate(100, 100); // 100Hz Jan 11 01:25:28 ptl: yeah - tehre is that Jan 11 01:25:32 only 100MHz supported Jan 11 01:25:32 MohammadAG: lol. Jan 11 01:25:36 i think i've been uploading an old version of the program by overzelous ctrl-r'ing Jan 11 01:25:41 Hz* Jan 11 01:25:42 SpeedEvil: polling *IS* B_A_D Jan 11 01:26:05 ok Jan 11 01:26:06 DocScrutinizer: yes - it's bad - if done at a sane rate it may not meaningfully affect battery life. Jan 11 01:26:12 whos with me on making a kernel module? Jan 11 01:26:13 well, that was really, really stupid Jan 11 01:26:18 For example - if when the screen is on. Jan 11 01:26:18 oh well, custom class to listen to mce Jan 11 01:26:20 SpeedEvil: It does Jan 11 01:26:32 or not ._. Jan 11 01:26:35 DocScrutinizer: at 2Hz? Jan 11 01:26:39 in my defense, it's scratchboxes's fault for making me confused about which directory i'm in. Jan 11 01:26:43 DocScrutinizer: with the screen on? Jan 11 01:26:46 SpeedEvil, that's not the problem Jan 11 01:26:50 even then you got CPU resumes @ 2Hz Jan 11 01:26:59 problem is, something as light as a simple label being updated should NOT take 9% CPU Jan 11 01:27:03 DocScrutinizer: that's utterly not an issue witht eh screen on. Jan 11 01:27:12 well with screen on it's negligable Jan 11 01:27:35 I appreciate it that Qt mobility wouldn't keep my CPU @ 500MHz Jan 11 01:27:40 but the concept is brainfucked, no matter what Jan 11 01:27:44 I'd* Jan 11 01:28:15 the LIS302 has hardware to deal with that Jan 11 01:28:17 ok, either scrap qt mobility or patch it Jan 11 01:28:20 this is taking up 7-17% http://i53.tinypic.com/34q3hu0.jpg Jan 11 01:28:38 lol Jan 11 01:28:44 * MohammadAG pokes alterego to see that ^ Jan 11 01:28:45 with the sensor stuff running? Jan 11 01:28:50 yes Jan 11 01:28:59 * MohammadAG does a custom class Jan 11 01:29:12 are you doing this stuff on maemo? <3 Jan 11 01:29:21 and you've got a text, dude Jan 11 01:29:22 yes Jan 11 01:29:27 lol Jan 11 01:29:34 email :p Jan 11 01:29:41 :D Jan 11 01:29:48 you noticed that, but not the time? :P Jan 11 01:29:51 FSCK, use kevents and let do LIS302 the job for you! just read /sys when there's new stuff to cope with Jan 11 01:29:59 gmt+2? Jan 11 01:30:04 yeah Jan 11 01:30:10 from? Jan 11 01:30:17 PS/IL Jan 11 01:30:19 indifferent Jan 11 01:30:25 k Jan 11 01:30:28 <-- ger Jan 11 01:30:39 DocScrutinizer's from there too :p Jan 11 01:30:59 no way Jan 11 01:31:06 I'm from Atlantis Jan 11 01:31:14 lies, you're from bermuda Jan 11 01:31:14 xD Jan 11 01:31:24 hmm Jan 11 01:31:45 dotblank, does your qmaemo5rotator class send a signal for each orientation? Jan 11 01:32:11 hmm.. let me check.. I think it does.. Jan 11 01:32:17 and its not my class Jan 11 01:32:29 wait, why exactly are you guys working on rotationstuff? :D Jan 11 01:32:50 it's for an app Jan 11 01:33:11 SpeedEvil: you don't want 20 apps polling the g-meter sysfs-nodes to check if there's rotation needed. Each of them 2 times a second (and I dare to rant 2Hz is way too slow for a responsive UI) Jan 11 01:33:16 dotblank, even top down/up right up/down? Jan 11 01:33:22 do you know whether gtk in maemo currently supports rotation at all? Jan 11 01:33:24 as in, ones not supported by hildon desktop Jan 11 01:33:33 MohammadAG, its sends " void orientationChanged(Orientation orientation);" Jan 11 01:33:36 diabol, this is Qt, and hildon-desktop supports rotation Jan 11 01:34:01 plus I'm only rotating widgets inside a window, so why bother :P Jan 11 01:34:03 enum Orientation { LandscapeOrientation = 0, PortraitOrientation = 1 }; Jan 11 01:34:19 oh Jan 11 01:34:27 because i wanna make stuff like pidgin get off its lazy ass and rotate nicely :P Jan 11 01:35:04 I think to get the up/down/left/right you would need sensor info Jan 11 01:35:29 dotblank, dbus signals exist for all of them Jan 11 01:35:34 having it use the default modes would be good enough for now Jan 11 01:35:59 string "portrait (inverted)" Jan 11 01:36:00 string "off_stand" Jan 11 01:36:00 string "face_up" Jan 11 01:36:06 for g-meter it needs an API (preferably via dbus) very very much identical to liblocation functionality Jan 11 01:36:20 signal sender=:1.12 -> dest=(null destination) serial=792 path=/com/nokia/mce/signal; interface=com.nokia.mce.signal; member=sig_device_orientation_ind Jan 11 01:36:27 MohammadAG, but you can't rotate qt in the manner you would like right? Qt on supports 2 right? Jan 11 01:36:31 anyways, I'll use qmaemo5rotator now Jan 11 01:36:39 should be as easy as replacing gtk with a hacked version that gets rotation data one way or another and uses that to rearrange the widgets (which is identical to resizing the window) Jan 11 01:36:45 maybe you could use xrandr to set rotation of the x display Jan 11 01:36:47 dotblank, that doesn't matter, it's an always landscape window you see Jan 11 01:36:49 heh, MohammadAG is already there Jan 11 01:36:52 and BOOM automagically every gtk app gets rotation support Jan 11 01:37:04 I just need to rotate the widgets it contains Jan 11 01:37:10 that way, rotation would be much faster Jan 11 01:37:10 MohammadAG, are the graphics done manually? like sdl? Jan 11 01:37:23 hmm? Jan 11 01:37:35 there are no graphics, yet Jan 11 01:37:41 we need to add a video layer Jan 11 01:37:45 how would you rotate the widgets abnormally? Jan 11 01:37:46 then overlay those widgets that rotate Jan 11 01:37:54 setGeometry Jan 11 01:38:00 diabol: except for font and icon rotation XP Jan 11 01:38:03 well I would personally use xrandr or something Jan 11 01:38:47 DocScrutinizer: yea, the cool stuff ._. Jan 11 01:38:47 diabol: aah, and layout rotation Jan 11 01:39:00 dotblank, I noticed another thing Jan 11 01:39:05 DocScrutinizer: nonono, it should be easy! :P Jan 11 01:39:10 dotblank, your new build has the progress bar set to some value that isn't 0 Jan 11 01:39:19 ok guys, gotta go to sleep now Jan 11 01:39:20 yea.. I know Jan 11 01:39:33 have fun, I'm going to have a different kind of fun now. cya Jan 11 01:39:36 *this* is exactly what i was looking for Jan 11 01:39:36 night diabol :) Jan 11 01:39:41 MohammadAG, I pass a signal to it with 2 parameters Jan 11 01:39:43 diabol, hope to see you around :) Jan 11 01:39:44 pretty rotation stuff Jan 11 01:39:48 same here :D Jan 11 01:39:58 nighty night Jan 11 01:40:01 does the n900 also has an "undestroyable" "first bootloader" for everytime reflashing, doenst matter, the firmware was destroyed before kline the n800 has? Jan 11 01:40:03 night :) Jan 11 01:40:07 setDataRate: rate 1 is not supported by the sensor. <-- lol Jan 11 01:40:11 and 100 isn't supported Jan 11 01:40:13 eichi: yes Jan 11 01:40:20 DocScrutinizernice Jan 11 01:40:24 nice Jan 11 01:40:34 MohammadAG, but the problem is that right after the constructer gets called it resizes the window Jan 11 01:40:37 eichi: dont worry, you can probably still brick it Jan 11 01:40:47 it's called the rom bootloader - check coldflashing Jan 11 01:41:03 MohammadAG, so that is supposed to set it 100% of screen.. but it gets resized Jan 11 01:41:03 ah Jan 11 01:41:06 okay. this is one of the best things, the nxxx series has Jan 11 01:41:13 yeah, got it Jan 11 01:41:43 pfff, inherited it from NEO FreeRunner :-P Jan 11 01:42:25 i'm very excited at the moment :D selled my n800 yesterday and buyed a n900, hope it comes soon Jan 11 01:44:15 dotblank, hmm, so does it actually make the window rotate? Cause I see you're not doing that manually Jan 11 01:44:53 MohammadAG, well thats done with the Qt:flags I don't use auto-rotate Jan 11 01:45:10 par->setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5PortraitOrientation, true); Jan 11 01:46:03 I see Jan 11 01:46:07 need to break that part Jan 11 01:48:46 dotblank, what exactly does this do orientationChanged(QMaemo5Rotator::LandscapeOrientation);? Jan 11 01:49:50 MohammadAG, wow.. that looks like a bug Jan 11 01:49:56 its supposed to emit Jan 11 01:50:04 I never needed to use it Jan 11 01:50:16 heh, guessed as much :P Jan 11 01:53:12 the eternal joy of C++ class libs without any decent docs Jan 11 01:53:30 DocScrutinizer, you can't believe how fun it can be :P Jan 11 01:53:47 I *know* Jan 11 01:54:13 hmm Jan 11 01:54:16 dotblank, connect(rotator, SIGNAL(orientationChanged(Orientation)), this, SLOT(onReadingChanged(Orientation))) Jan 11 01:54:25 shouldn't void MainWindow::onReadingChanged(Orientation *orient) work? Jan 11 01:55:15 does it know about that enum? Jan 11 01:55:17 Orientation Jan 11 01:55:57 I'm including the .h file, shouldn't it? Jan 11 01:55:58 and would you really want to use a pointer? Jan 11 01:56:13 It has a namespace Jan 11 01:56:28 hmm Jan 11 01:56:54 and its passing by value not a pouinter Jan 11 01:57:00 pointer* Jan 11 01:57:49 oh how I adore C++ Jan 11 01:57:59 :D Jan 11 01:58:45 bah Jan 11 01:58:59 need to go to bed Jan 11 01:59:02 night everyone Jan 11 02:05:50 hey Jan 11 02:07:07 how do i dualboot with powerkernel and meego? Jan 11 02:08:32 Hmmm, does the powerkernel have ppp support? Jan 11 02:11:18 "C++ to C is what lung cancer is to lungs" (C)DontRemember Jan 11 02:30:19 WhiteWidow: check uBoot configuration. IIRC it's via a file on external SD-card **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 11 02:59:58 2011