**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 21 02:59:57 2011 Jan 21 03:08:28 big king XXL - yummy Jan 21 04:27:21 random - I'm in the process of writing a tool to extract pricing information from the tesco grocery website, so I can sort by price. This is interesting, but is half of a useful idea. Does anyone know of a website that has a compatible licence - so I can take the list of recipies, and out pops a price/recipie? Jan 21 04:31:38 recipe like "how to bake a cake"? Jan 21 04:31:48 yes Jan 21 04:32:09 NFC Jan 21 04:32:35 I want to be able to generate an app that can plan meals per couple of weeks, based on prices, and what you've got in stock. Jan 21 04:32:52 killer app :-D Jan 21 04:33:45 I seem to recall there's been al annoying sorts of (C) and suing with recipes on the web Jan 21 04:33:56 yeah. Jan 21 04:34:14 house wives - worse than lawyers Jan 21 04:35:06 knitting another similar domain Jan 21 04:35:50 and programs for electronic stiching machines - OMG Jan 21 04:36:21 probably worse a market than ringtones for mobile phones Jan 21 04:37:53 I guess accessing arbitrary websites via wget or linking can't violate any (C) Jan 21 04:39:20 they may forbid redistribution, but not downloading and postprocessing in whatever way, as long as downloading with any one browser is generally allowable Jan 21 04:42:09 embedding is a gray zone, but local processing in whatever way isn't illegal. Esp when you make user configure the URL to download the recipes from Jan 21 04:42:37 meh, if the webserver sends me the data, it's mine to use within fair use :P Jan 21 04:42:47 exactly Jan 21 04:44:23 and a tool that requires user interaction to set up the particular URL in some config page - there's nothing anybody can do against that. Otherwise even wget would be illegal Jan 21 04:46:00 a wget that does special postprocessing to the data downloaded, that's perfectly allowable. Even if that special "wget" works only for one particular webpage Jan 21 04:49:36 ~xyawn Jan 21 04:49:36 xyawn is, like, big coffee Jan 21 04:49:56 hmm, k Jan 21 04:55:10 hmmm, how do I send a SMS to someone not in my contact list... Jan 21 04:58:34 found it Jan 21 05:05:03 aha I see whats up, I need to figure out how to enable log_notice logging in syslog Jan 21 05:11:23 nope, that isnt working, I cant get it enabled Jan 21 05:41:59 jonwil: umm, did you try to increase loglevel, with dmesg ? Jan 21 05:42:47 jonwil: dmesg -n 10, or sth Jan 21 05:42:56 jonwil: just a wild guess Jan 21 05:43:22 isnt dmesg for kernel messages only? Jan 21 05:43:44 yes Jan 21 05:44:41 ok, so that wont give me the messages I want from the sms code Jan 21 05:49:05 dmesg also sets the loglevel, dunno if only for kernel msgs or for general loger() calls Jan 21 05:49:43 anyway dmesg -n 10 also has effect for syslog Jan 21 05:50:03 it's a writetime parameter, not a readtime filter Jan 21 05:51:22 umm no, scratch that Jan 21 05:51:26 -nlevel Jan 21 05:51:27 Set the level at which logging of messages is done to the console. For example, -n 1 prevents all mes- Jan 21 05:51:29 sages, expect panic messages, from appearing on the console. Jan 21 05:51:58 XD Jan 21 05:52:19 All levels of messages are still written to /proc/kmsg, so syslogd(8) can still be used to control exactly where kernel messages appear Jan 21 05:54:42 so I guess you should check /etc/syslog.conf, jonwil Jan 21 05:55:03 I already tried that Jan 21 05:56:43 #*.=debug;\ Jan 21 05:56:45 # auth,authpriv.none;\ Jan 21 05:56:46 # news.none;mail.none -/var/log/debug Jan 21 05:56:48 this? Jan 21 05:56:58 #*.=info;*.=notice;*.=warn;\ Jan 21 05:56:59 # auth,authpriv.none;\ Jan 21 05:57:01 # cron,daemon.none;\ Jan 21 05:57:02 # mail,news.none -/var/log/messages Jan 21 05:57:03 and this? Jan 21 06:03:05 hmm, if only I could manage to not forget that friggin syntax of syslog.conf (and esp rsyslog.conf and syslogng and whatnot) Jan 21 06:13:57 DocScrutinizer: On local processing - the whole point would be to have the entire database of recipies, and the entire database of prices, combined with a local stock system, to generate meal plans for the next 2 weeks for the minimum price. Jan 21 06:15:10 hmm, no problem either. Simply download the whole database and 'cache' locally Jan 21 06:15:37 you just mustn't ship the dataset with your app Jan 21 06:15:49 It doesn't really work well if you require each user to slurp the whole site. Jan 21 06:15:55 Sites tend to fall over when you do that. Jan 21 06:16:32 hmm, so what else? I don't see any other solution, except find CC-recipes Jan 21 06:17:57 yeah. Jan 21 06:18:12 I was basically wondering if anyone knew of any Jan 21 06:21:53 probably the hosting of a CC database for recipes, similar to wikipedia, with a rating system, is the best part of the whole project ;-D Jan 21 06:22:50 you could start with a hundered recipes you provide from $random locations incl your granny's recipe book Jan 21 06:22:58 yeah. Jan 21 06:23:33 you'd have precise labels/names for the ingredients Jan 21 06:23:46 Ideally I'd like a huge database of recipies, with nice 'codes' for ingredients and quantities. So I don't have to try to parse what '1tsp onion' means. Jan 21 06:23:47 selectable from dropdown boxes or sth Jan 21 06:25:00 yeah, a free text recipe collection is probably hard or impossible to parse Jan 21 06:26:28 hosting your own db-based recipe collection and opening it up to download and support a web-API, that could pan out quite nicely Jan 21 06:26:57 esp if you also offer a html frontend Jan 21 06:27:27 http://www.livestrong.com/recipes/browse-fish/ is the closest I came up with - but their licence isn't sane Jan 21 06:29:29 :nod: Jan 21 06:29:37 nothing LAMP couldn't do Jan 21 06:30:24 The problem isn't in many ways the app, it's the data. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 21 07:52:17 2011 Jan 21 07:52:17 test for \ (backslash) Jan 21 07:52:21 s/\/x/ Jan 21 07:52:21 DocScrutinizer meant: test for x (backslash) Jan 21 07:53:13 I don't think infobot is actually using regex in the strictest sense Jan 21 07:53:23 nah, instr() or sth Jan 21 07:53:29 or at least not any of the variants I know about ... Jan 21 07:53:44 infobot, what are you written in? Jan 21 07:53:45 johnx: what are you talking about? Jan 21 07:54:56 https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2241 Jan 21 07:55:11 Infobot - Original Perl IRC Infobot Jan 21 07:55:32 ah. yeah. kinda what I thought Jan 21 08:04:50 Jaffa: Hi you might remember me I tried to your transcode script ... but I had problems selecting the right audio track Jan 21 08:05:39 I now use --mencoder='-alang eng' but the script fails with "Unable to get movie info." Jan 21 08:10:36 Jaffa: which is strange because the same command in the shell works ... it seems like the script produces an error there Jan 21 08:34:17 are you sure this shouldn't be '--alang=eng' Jan 21 08:35:17 or, if -a means apend, then maybe '-a"lang eng"' Jan 21 08:39:44 DocScrutinizer this works ... so I assume its correct "mencoder -o n900_tvs-swtcw-18p-bd-dl-112.mkv -srate 44100 -oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=0:br=192 -af volnorm=1 -ofps 23.976 -vf-add crop=1800:1080 -vf-add scale=800:480 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=2000:aspect=800/480:turbo -alang eng -ffourcc FMP4 -force-avi-aspect 1.66666666666667 tvs-swtcw-18p-bd-dl-112.mkv" Jan 21 08:40:44 hmm, yup Jan 21 08:43:01 and one thing I thought might be the problem is the way it is parsed but when I execute jaffa s script with --mencoder='alang eng' the mencoder command misses the "-" before alang so I guess I used it correctly Jan 21 08:43:09 echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho $@ >&2\/usr/bin/mencoder "$@"' >/usr/local/bin/mencoder Jan 21 08:43:33 echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho $@ >&2\n/usr/bin/mencoder "$@"' >/usr/local/bin/mencoder Jan 21 08:44:59 oh yep, shell vars containing sth starting with a minus might actually get tricky Jan 21 08:46:31 esp -a is AND sometimes Jan 21 08:47:53 shell scripting is so full of dark mouldy corners Jan 21 08:48:04 jaffa told me I should use -m from his script like this -malang -meng but that just starts the episode Jan 21 08:49:34 dunno, never looked ito the script. I suggest a ``set -vx'' Jan 21 08:49:46 ...at start of script Jan 21 08:50:17 then see where the parameter gets crippled Jan 21 08:50:59 well I acctually think if I find the time and jaffa cannot help I will learn some pearl and add language selection to his script Jan 21 08:51:15 pearl?? Jan 21 08:51:19 :-o Jan 21 08:51:54 perl :D Jan 21 08:52:09 icky enough Jan 21 08:52:21 I have decided to learn ARM assembly by reverse engineering some of the Nokia proprietary PulseAudio blobs Jan 21 08:52:34 I just looked into ibot's Perl source... *cough* Jan 21 08:52:54 thats what I thought :D but I have a friend that thinks perl is awesome and he is probably up for a little project Jan 21 08:54:16 I mean the whole script is only 750 lines ... so it "shouldn't" be too hard Jan 21 08:54:23 hmm, set -vx prolly doesn't work for Perl :-P Jan 21 08:54:43 omg 750 lines? :-o Jan 21 08:56:20 no-one is interested in knowing the inner workings of the Nokia pulseaudio binaries? :P Jan 21 08:57:06 smooph: usually when I start writing some little proggie in Perl I regret it later when it grows over 100 lines of code Jan 21 08:58:58 yeah but as far as I can tell its not advanced perl like from perlmonks ... its just written in perl ... and by looking over it I understand most of what its supposed to do sometimes I don't get the expression but thats what my friend is for Jan 21 09:00:57 aha, now I see why the nokia pulseaudio modules are closed, they link to libbmeipc Jan 21 09:02:42 morning Jan 21 09:05:28 achipa, I can't really be arsed about naming conventions to be honest. Whether it's .pri or .pro doesn't _really_ make a difference, not more than what you want that difference to make Jan 21 09:06:00 In my case, I don't give two coins about .pri or .pro, so you can have your religious wars about the naming, and you're also free to just submit a patch to rename it :) Jan 21 09:06:18 Qt project file? Jan 21 09:06:24 aye Jan 21 09:06:40 * lardman|home votes for the "o" Jan 21 09:08:27 jonwil: sure I'm interested Jan 21 09:08:47 http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/external-includepaths.pro Jan 21 09:08:54 lardman, ^ Jan 21 09:08:56 moo crashanddie Jan 21 09:09:23 moo DocScrutinizer Jan 21 09:10:24 jonwil: anyway check what's already disclosed @ http://meego.gitorious.org/ Jan 21 09:10:34 :-D Jan 21 09:10:41 yeah I intend to use meego info to help with reverse engineering this stuff Jan 21 09:10:45 who am I to tell *you* Jan 21 09:11:08 but none of the meego stuff will not be correct for Fremantle though since all these closed libs link to libbmeipc Jan 21 09:11:21 something which Nokia is unwilling to share a dev package for Jan 21 09:11:47 you got a verbatim statement saying so? Jan 21 09:11:55 jonwil: I also had troubles with aqualung, will need to do some debugging, or perhaps write my own (need time though) Jan 21 09:12:24 I got Aqualung to start but when I ran it, it didnt do anything on the function I tried to use it on Jan 21 09:15:08 I do like APU Jan 21 09:15:14 I do like APIs that use opaque structures Jan 21 09:15:17 like PulseAudio Jan 21 09:15:59 Good object oriented design, isn't it? :) Jan 21 09:16:03 yes Jan 21 09:16:15 * RST38h cackles evilly Jan 21 09:16:25 first library on the list is libnokia-common.so Jan 21 09:17:32 wait, did someone actually just say they like the pulseaudio api? Jan 21 09:17:54 yes Jan 21 09:18:15 * ieatlint shakes his head Jan 21 09:19:37 I guess there were some tags missing Jan 21 09:20:54 nope, I like it because its going to be easier to reverse engineer Jan 21 09:21:01 thanks to the opaque objects Jan 21 09:21:14 how's that? Jan 21 09:21:44 * RST38h wonders why one would need to reverse engineer PA Jan 21 09:22:06 the nokia binary blobs Jan 21 09:22:18 RST38h: because Nokia in their eternal wisdom decided to do blobs for it Jan 21 09:22:32 The reason the blobs appear to exist is due to the blobs requiring libbmeipc Jan 21 09:22:47 which is a library that for some strange reason Nokia refuses to publish a -dev package for... Jan 21 09:23:05 where you got that from? Jan 21 09:23:09 Just create your own, new, better audio API! Jan 21 09:23:20 where you got what from? Jan 21 09:23:29 The libraries require libbmeipc because I can see it in the binaries Jan 21 09:23:31 they link to it Jan 21 09:23:37 Nokia refuses to publish a -dev package for... Jan 21 09:23:40 oh ok Jan 21 09:23:51 well nokia hasnt published a libbmeipc-dev package anywhere Jan 21 09:24:03 this might change Jan 21 09:24:10 change why? Jan 21 09:24:17 meego? Jan 21 09:24:21 to use bme in e.g. meego Jan 21 09:25:58 also freeing mce would need that .h iirc Jan 21 09:26:35 hah, the newest N9 rumour says it's not a 1.2ghz snapdragon, but a 1.2ghz intel atom Jan 21 09:26:48 http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/20/nokia-n9-to-bust-loose-with-meego-on-moorestown-power/ Jan 21 09:27:17 plus I wonder how dsme is talking / listening to bme, without libbmeipc.h Jan 21 09:27:48 ieatlint: you're late :) Jan 21 09:27:53 ieatlint, I can confirm it's an OMAP3 Jan 21 09:27:57 i was busy today :P Jan 21 09:28:04 ieatlint: it's from yesterday Jan 21 09:28:13 MohammadAG: omap*3*? Jan 21 09:28:15 MohammadAG: can you now....? Jan 21 09:28:17 by whose clock? Jan 21 09:28:31 OMAP*, don't want to spread more rumors Jan 21 09:28:35 it's 1:30am where i am... as far as i'm concerned, it's thursday until i wake up Jan 21 09:28:36 ieatlint: ours Jan 21 09:28:38 ;) Jan 21 09:29:03 it's an OMAP5! Yay! Jan 21 09:29:07 MohammadAG: you should spread more Jan 21 09:29:19 tell people it'll be running ppc arch chips from motorola Jan 21 09:29:29 it's actually OMAP :p Jan 21 09:29:49 I dont think even Nokia has a finalized set of hardware for their first MeeGo phone Jan 21 09:29:57 NO IT'S SNAPDRAGON Jan 21 09:30:12 or if they do, they have multiple different meego phones in development with different hardware specs Jan 21 09:30:13 jonwil: they do ... or at least, a near-final revision of it Jan 21 09:30:13 It's Xeon. Jan 21 09:30:29 i7-mobile Jan 21 09:31:16 i hear it's actually going to just be a bunch of chinese people doing math quickly Jan 21 09:32:08 yeah, the chinese dwarfs - they got bored in the tools bag of those yamaha bikes Jan 21 09:32:18 it'll be extremely low power, but with a short lifespan... they'll be easy to replace though Jan 21 09:33:23 as for DSME talking to BME, the bit of DSME that talks to BME is dsme-thermalobject-surface. This is LGPL as a separate package but with a dependancy on libbmeipc (so it cant actually be compiled without those headers) Jan 21 09:33:51 WTF??? Jan 21 09:34:17 I think that's a pretty good lever to get libbmeipc.h Jan 21 09:34:41 OMAP666 Jan 21 09:34:50 its not one file, its at least 3, bme_extmsg.h, client_ipc.h and em_isi.h Jan 21 09:35:11 what's DSME? Jan 21 09:35:15 Powering Satan's favorite cell phone Jan 21 09:35:22 device state management entity Jan 21 09:35:26 mhm, good. So open up a ticket against DSME and ask for them Jan 21 09:35:44 RST38h: i have a friend whose new phone number has the prefix 666... that'd be perfect for them! Jan 21 09:36:25 hah, my city prefix is 911 Jan 21 09:36:53 perfect for me :-P Jan 21 09:37:36 DSME sounds like nokia software Jan 21 09:38:00 yes Jan 21 09:38:04 Device State Management Entity Jan 21 09:38:11 so although its LGPL, all the code was written by Nokia Jan 21 09:38:43 jonwil: I think you can open a ticket on bmo, toss in the link URL to dsme-thermalobject-surface. And request the missing *.h, naming them as precisely as possible Jan 21 09:38:49 which means nokia can re-release it under any licence... additionally, the only people who can make L/GPL claims are those who are licence holders Jan 21 09:38:55 Omap3, one die shrink smaller from the one in N900, clocked at 1GHz, 512MByte RAM. :P Jan 21 09:38:56 so nokia isn't going to threaten to sue themselves Jan 21 09:39:26 MeeGo has the same DSME code pointing to the same non-existent libbmeipc headers Jan 21 09:39:45 isnt there a dropbox client for the n900? oO Jan 21 09:40:47 summel: As I understand it, dropbox requires a binary x86 blob Jan 21 09:40:53 :D Jan 21 09:40:55 err Jan 21 09:40:57 :S Jan 21 09:41:06 ill continue to use the webpage then Jan 21 09:41:09 Or not Jan 21 09:41:12 http://maemo.org/packages/view/dropn900/ Jan 21 09:41:16 jonwil: query stskeeps, he might know some details not common to the public Jan 21 09:41:27 ah ty :) Jan 21 09:42:04 ah -devel still... then i wait for it :) Jan 21 09:42:27 jonwil: also poke tekojo as soon as he joins in here Jan 21 09:42:29 and the app that checks for free radio frequencies is also in -devel, right? :o Jan 21 09:42:48 that should have been built in from the start anyways :D Jan 21 09:43:08 That app uses the FM receiver Jan 21 09:43:11 iirc Jan 21 09:43:18 it'd made more sense to let the fmtx do it Jan 21 09:43:26 (the chip is capable of it, but it's not exposed in the driver) Jan 21 09:43:27 which arguably is the better concept Jan 21 09:43:36 :o Jan 21 09:43:41 nope, as FMTX has no decent antenna Jan 21 09:44:39 * ShadowJK wonders which method provides better roaming for car radio :) Jan 21 09:45:10 the best concept however is to search a free frequency on your radio you want to 'pair', then wobble FMTX and analyze acoustic feedback from mic, to autotune N900 FMTX to the freq of your radio Jan 21 09:45:46 :o Jan 21 09:46:09 RDS radio will autotune once it gets close enough :D Jan 21 09:46:11 perfect usability Jan 21 09:46:35 ShadowJK: you can avoid/disable that, on TX side Jan 21 09:47:05 hey chaps, if I do this and the device doesn't exist, or cat can't be found will the CMDLINE variable still be created?: CMDLINE=`cat /proc/cmdline` Jan 21 09:47:08 No but it's great, if you have an empty frequency finder driving frequency hopping during your drive, the car radio automatically keeps up and changes frequency Jan 21 09:47:12 I think yes Jan 21 09:48:03 that's actually also a great concept. I thought you had objections to the wobbling/searching Jan 21 09:48:13 jonwil: ^^^ Jan 21 09:48:43 morning tekojo Jan 21 09:49:04 tekojo: you had a look into bug 8347 yet? Jan 21 09:49:06 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available Jan 21 09:49:26 heh Jan 21 09:50:50 tekojo: for DSME which is disclosed since quite some time, there are missing a few .h so it's not buildable for maemo. Do you think we can get this straightened? Jan 21 09:53:15 DocScrutinizer: the opening queue would be the best place, I don't really know where to start Jan 21 09:53:45 and seems like I the cell broadcast is hard, no idea who did and and where they are now Jan 21 09:53:46 ok, so filing a license change request for the headers in question then? Jan 21 09:53:48 hmm, DSME already is opened Jan 21 09:54:07 DSME is open but it links to header files Nokia didnt publish Jan 21 09:54:07 are the missing headers in DSME or something it depends on? Jan 21 09:54:13 its in a dependancy Jan 21 09:54:21 DSME needs libbmeipc headers Jan 21 09:54:24 (also I think the whole opening queue got stalled) Jan 21 09:54:42 tekojo: [2011-01-21 10:33:22] as for DSME talking to BME, the bit of DSME that talks to BME is dsme-thermalobject-surface. This is LGPL as a separate package but with a dependancy on libbmeipc (so it cant actually be compiled without those headers) Jan 21 09:54:55 bme, I can almost certainly say that it will be a no go Jan 21 09:55:09 [2011-01-21 10:34:50] its not one file, its at least 3, bme_extmsg.h, client_ipc.h and em_isi.h Jan 21 09:55:18 but you can try with the queue Jan 21 09:55:46 I think it's more about the communication that goes on between the opensource components and bme Jan 21 09:55:51 yes Jan 21 09:55:55 we dont want libbmeipc or bme Jan 21 09:56:06 tekojo: we're not asking for bme source, just for headers for the lib to listen to signals from bme. This got RE'd for mer long ago Jan 21 09:56:11 (just the headers to build dsme?) Jan 21 09:56:18 jonwil: I understand, but those headers are in there Jan 21 09:56:22 yes just the libbmeipc-dev package Jan 21 09:56:35 as it were Jan 21 09:58:50 I'll try to find out who to ask, but anything bme related has always been a problem Jan 21 09:59:35 Thanks! Jan 21 09:59:37 yes. I know. But I thought the whole point about *.h is do give the interface without disclosing anything about the actual code behind it Jan 21 09:59:48 tekojo: anyway many rhanks :-) Jan 21 10:00:19 DocScrutinizer: yes, it would be the sensible thing, but it was never easy Jan 21 10:00:23 thanks even Jan 21 10:02:14 as for cell broadcast, I cant see anything happening to it unless someone (either publicly or under NDA) is able to study libsms code and csd-sms code, which wont happen given that D Jan 21 10:02:20 given that Fremantle is EOL Jan 21 10:02:20 as I suspect there's maybe no such thing like a libbmeipc-devel pkg, I suggest somebody has a short look at those 3 *.h to see if there's _anything_ inside them that's any problematic, then just dump them to $RANDOM at gitorious Jan 21 10:02:43 DocScrutinizer, I doubt its that simple Jan 21 10:02:59 grmlfz Jan 21 10:03:33 still no info on my device from d4mn insurance company Jan 21 10:03:39 * chem|st is feeling naked... Jan 21 10:03:47 i know that feeling Jan 21 10:03:50 what happened to it+ Jan 21 10:04:03 wheatbeer-coke-mix Jan 21 10:04:19 lol Jan 21 10:04:24 The "powers that be" are going to be concerned about allowing 3rd parties to interface with BME because of the potential to screw things up and cause dead handsets (or worse overloaded batteries that could explode) Jan 21 10:04:30 well I would guess they are Jan 21 10:04:39 I've heard of wheatbeer and, uh, sprite? Jan 21 10:04:58 I am that || close to order a new one without insurance pr4nk!n9 Jan 21 10:05:33 coke is even worse as it got 3% phosphoricacid Jan 21 10:05:52 jonwil: tekojo: that's a moot argument. We know bme can't get messed up via libbmeipc interface Jan 21 10:06:28 would have no issues with a sticky device... but acid burned µchips wont last long Jan 21 10:08:21 tekojo: jonwil: and even IF there were any calls documented in that *.h that had potential to do "bad" things to bme, we happily accepted Nokia to discard these lines of code, prior to disclosing it Jan 21 10:08:42 though I'm absolutely sure there aren't any Jan 21 10:09:37 Actually, charge rate gets throttled during charge on over temperature, but we don't know where that decision comes from, whether it's bme that independently decides to do it, or whether dsme tells it to... But anyway, stop bme and the thermal throttling goes away entirely either way :] Jan 21 10:09:52 ok report has been sent to insurance comp. yesterday, fingers crossed... Jan 21 10:10:21 chem|st: your warranty covers accidental damage? Jan 21 10:10:28 ShadowJK: then OTOH throttling isn't a 'bad thing' Jan 21 10:11:04 FYI, libbmeipc is still referenced by code in meego and the headers are still missing there Jan 21 10:11:26 SpeedEvil: nope, a friend of mine accidentially knocked over his glas, so his insurance covers Jan 21 10:11:47 No it's not, but from writing an opensource bme replacement point of view, we aren't able to talk to the other maemo components, and we can't provide dsme with thermal data and we can't receive orders from dsme (if dsme actually does send orders, who knows) Jan 21 10:11:57 Nokia's arguments why bme can't get disclosed always been: IP (moot for *.h), safety (exploding battery - moot for a checked and maybe cleaned *.h) Jan 21 10:12:08 took about 1 month to get a request to send in the device Jan 21 10:12:37 response time is about a week at least and that makes me suffer Jan 21 10:12:44 ShadowJK: yep, that's why we need those *.h files Jan 21 10:12:46 And it's swapped for an 'equivalent' device - a n97 Jan 21 10:13:18 no Jan 21 10:13:21 even DSME can't build though it's foss now Jan 21 10:14:55 Anyone who thinks the N97 and N900 are in any way "equivalent" should have their head examined Jan 21 10:15:40 sure we could RE a libbmeipc.h, from scrutinizing libbmeipc.so ABI and the calls to libbmeipc in e.g dsme. But that's stupid as there's no reason for Nokia not to disclose the original files Jan 21 10:16:11 Thats like saying a Jeep Wrangler and a Jeep Cherokee are "equivalent" because they both are made by Jeep and because they both have Jan 21 10:16:33 jonwil: cut-off, there is no other penalty Jan 21 10:18:00 I'd sue the insurance bastards, that's what they do best, try to undervalue the damaged/affected equipment/s as to minimise their losses Jan 21 10:18:35 jonwil: please remember my suggestions of above - talk to stskeeps. He looked nto meamo4 bme stuff very very deeply, for mer Jan 21 10:19:14 there might still be some helpful bits to be found in mer sources Jan 21 10:19:55 also stskeeps knows about pitfalls and relations/details that are hard to RE Jan 21 10:22:17 http://gitorious.org/mer-toggles/hald-addon-bme/trees/master Jan 21 10:23:15 :-D Jan 21 10:23:20 yes, exactly that one Jan 21 10:23:25 ftd protocol, iirc :) Jan 21 10:23:36 plus what's inside stskeeps' head Jan 21 10:23:38 Whether it works in maemo5, no idea :D Jan 21 10:23:53 iirc that thing was done without any "secret" info Jan 21 10:24:05 almost Jan 21 10:24:23 hm? Jan 21 10:32:56 iirc stskeeps got a liitle help from Nokia on that Jan 21 10:33:01 just a lil bit Jan 21 10:41:25 achipa, nope, still can't find the disable packaging step :) Jan 21 10:41:32 otherwise, the new sdk's nice Jan 21 10:42:50 hi, "ps -ef" shows me that a lot of processes have two instances, hildon-home, camera-ui, hildon-desktop, browser, calendar etc etc Jan 21 10:43:40 what is the reason for that? Jan 21 10:43:57 dsme i guess Jan 21 10:44:16 hi BluesLee - long time no see Jan 21 10:44:16 that means its normal Jan 21 10:44:28 hi DocScrutinizer Jan 21 10:44:38 BluesLee: it's the hildon-launcher Jan 21 10:44:52 whatever it's real name Jan 21 10:45:24 check your /usr/bin, you also have two executables for each of those processes Jan 21 10:45:55 okay, thats a sufficient answer Jan 21 10:46:06 it's some lib preload stuff, similar to what they do for KDE Jan 21 10:46:25 hi, what's the difference between dpkg -i and pkgmgr install-file ? I have a deb file can be installed with dpkg but failed with pkgmgr, get error message "is not a user package" Jan 21 10:46:37 DocScrutinizer: i tried to run dvb-t on my n900 without success so far Jan 21 10:47:08 hmm, probably hard to find any source for the driver needed Jan 21 10:47:10 DocScrutinizer: it looked promising but i have very little knowledge about the linux kernel and how things work Jan 21 10:47:35 DocScrutinizer: i compiled the modules and i am able to load them Jan 21 10:47:56 mhm, so what's happening? Jan 21 10:48:03 DocScrutinizer: i wonder which instance generates device files like /dev/dvb Jan 21 10:48:10 does it fail on h-e-n hostmode? Jan 21 10:48:21 the driver usually Jan 21 10:48:35 afaik Jan 21 10:48:39 no, it doesnt Jan 21 10:48:55 DocScrutinizer: the firmware is loaded Jan 21 10:48:56 then you need mknod Jan 21 10:49:34 DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=921378&postcount=20 Jan 21 10:49:44 you should be able to tell from your PC Jan 21 10:50:37 DocScrutinizer: what do you mean with "to tell from your pc"? Jan 21 10:51:02 DocScrutinizer: i use a script which generates all the device nodes with mknod Jan 21 10:52:04 DocScrutinizer: i tried mplayer and vlc player, the latter does not load dvb channel files, the first crashes when it searchs for frequencies Jan 21 10:52:57 DocScrutinizer: do i need special dvb support for the used power kernel or is it enough to use the default one + compiled modules Jan 21 10:53:27 BluesLee: (from tmo) I don't think the kernel driver has any idea about ~/.mplayer/channels.conf Jan 21 10:54:55 DocScrutinizer: maybe there is a single command line to use directly a frequency, i will google it Jan 21 10:55:14 isn't channels.conf just a channel - frequency mapping file or something Jan 21 10:55:25 ShadowJK: yes it is Jan 21 10:55:41 BluesLee: if that file is for kernel to config things with the dvb stick, then for sure it needs to libe in e.g /etc Jan 21 10:55:47 not in user's home Jan 21 10:56:02 live* Jan 21 10:56:08 ShadowJK: if i say "mplayer dvb:\\channel1" channels.conf is used to check if channel1 exists and so on Jan 21 10:56:41 DocScrutinizer: i can check tha immediately Jan 21 11:00:24 BluesLee: check what the files in /dev look like on your PC. Check if there's a script somewhere in postinstall of the pkg that creates these. Try to mknod the files on N900 with same parameters Jan 21 11:00:45 http://fun.drno.de/pics/self-charger.jpg Jan 21 11:01:36 BluesLee: also a bit longer history of syslog in that tmo post would help a lot. I see a strange new device showing up on USB *after* driver got loeaded Jan 21 11:02:21 I'd like to compare that with any previous device that's maybe also the dvb-stick Jan 21 11:03:56 DocScrutinizer: here is the script http://pastebin.de/14061 Jan 21 11:05:44 hmm, so why do you ask "" DocScrutinizer: i wonder which instance generates device files like /dev/dvb"" Jan 21 11:06:23 DocScrutinizer: i mean that on my pc the devices are automatically generated Jan 21 11:06:32 it's generated by udev automatically Jan 21 11:06:38 on your desktop Jan 21 11:06:51 yep, probably Jan 21 11:07:05 and there is no udev for maemo? Jan 21 11:07:11 sure there is Jan 21 11:07:22 you just need to add the rule Jan 21 11:07:41 okay, where are the rules located? Jan 21 11:07:49 /etc/udev/* Jan 21 11:09:15 hmm, i can not see a rule for dvb or similar on my pc Jan 21 11:10:22 just run the script manually Jan 21 11:10:38 for now Jan 21 11:11:58 I'm much more concerned about [32276.534576] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=14aa, idProduct=0222 Jan 21 11:12:21 *AFTER* [32276.193572] dvb_usb_dtt200u 1-1:1.0: usb_probe_interface Jan 21 11:12:23 ok, so the answer seems to a "no" to the SMS stuff (i.e. getting access to libsms and csd-sms) and a "slim chance" for the libbmeipc headers. Jan 21 11:13:25 hmm, who gave that answer? link? Jan 21 11:14:51 BluesLee: please paste the previous ""New USB device found, idVendor="" line in your syslog/dmesg Jan 21 11:18:43 Morning, all Jan 21 11:19:19 morning Jaffa Jan 21 11:19:44 smooph's gone. Bah. Anyway, he should've used "-m-alang -meng". tablet-encode doesn't put the '-' in automatically. Jan 21 11:20:33 DocScrutinizer: here is the latest one http://pastebin.de/14063 Jan 21 11:20:35 the answer is based on what tekojo said earlier (being that he was going to punt the libbmeipc request to the right people Jan 21 11:22:10 its also almost certain that Nokia won't want to put the work in to open up the source for libsms/csd-sms (which is the minimum that would be required for CBSMS) Jan 21 11:24:53 last comment of bug 10870 seems to confirm that thought Jan 21 11:24:54 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/10870 Open source libsms and libsms-utils Jan 21 11:25:07 DocScrutinizer: vendor and product looks okay for me Jan 21 11:40:38 jonwil: 10870 is missing any reference to 8347 and SMS-CB Jan 21 11:41:15 and mentionng notmynokia wasn't the smartest move I guess :-P Jan 21 11:41:17 no but 10870 implies that they wont be willing to touch the mess of legacy code in the Fremantle telephony stack Jan 21 11:42:21 they won't because they see not a single requirement. 8347 would have been such a requirement Jan 21 11:42:28 maybe Jan 21 11:54:29 hello guys ... is there a way to see if my headphone button creates an event ? I guess something like xev but for the n900 ... Jan 21 11:55:04 Jaffa: I now use --mencoder='-alang eng' but the script fails with "Unable to get movie info." Jan 21 11:56:02 bbl Jan 21 12:01:17 smooph: 12:19:43 < Jaffa> smooph's gone. Bah. Anyway, he should've used "-m-alang -meng". tablet-encode doesn't put the '-' in automatically. Jan 21 12:02:09 thanks frals I think I already tried that but lets see Jan 21 12:04:08 wonderful it seems to work thanks again Jan 21 12:09:18 somebody some info on my other question .... button event of headset to accept calls or adjust sound ? Jan 21 12:27:38 anyone here know which bits of the n900 handle audio routing? Jan 21 12:27:45 Is it just the binary pulseaudio blobs that handle it? Jan 21 12:59:59 wow Jan 21 13:00:21 i've just seen another n900 user Jan 21 13:00:32 huh, so the US is testing some massive area gps jamming tech for the next month then Jan 21 13:01:05 ? Jan 21 13:01:44 jacekowski: In the flesh? Jan 21 13:01:57 what is happening next month? Jan 21 13:02:04 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/20/unavailabe_gps_warning/ Jan 21 13:02:13 speedevil: yes in a flesh Jan 21 13:02:47 FAA warning that GPS over like thousands of square miles will be "unreliable" till feb 22nd, and asking pilots to report disruptions so they can "determine the extent of degradation" Jan 21 13:02:59 I vaguely recall the diameter stated in the NOTAM is approximately the same as the 'spot beam' This is a high power - comparatively - dish that can - at least - send high power M-code to an area of operations. Jan 21 13:02:59 The shape of the NOTAM would be more or less consistent I think with them pointing the spot beam at one point on the earth, and meaconing from it. Jan 21 13:03:10 From something I just typed in another channel about this Jan 21 13:04:37 i've just seen another n900 user <-- I've seen 10 Jan 21 13:25:08 ok, for wlan signal strength, you would need to find out whether the kernel driver and wifi firmware provide that information to userspace and go from there Jan 21 13:25:18 no idea how one would go about that Jan 21 13:27:12 ssh root@phone cat /proc/net/wireless Jan 21 13:27:12 Inter-| sta-| Quality | Discarded packets | Missed | WE Jan 21 13:27:12 face | tus | link level noise | nwid crypt frag retry misc | beacon | 22 Jan 21 13:27:12 wlan0: 0000 87. -38 -93. 0 0 0 0 0 0 Jan 21 13:29:12 ok, so the info is already there and someone just has to write a status bar widget? Great, something to take off my list :) Jan 21 13:30:16 Or put on Jan 21 13:34:35 is the gps thing related to the new constellation? Jan 21 13:41:51 hi Jan 21 13:42:31 im about to buy a microsd. wondering whether class 10 would be fully supported on the n900 Jan 21 13:43:16 cant find a clear answer on google Jan 21 13:43:39 ShadowJK: It's related in that the jamming is probably only available ew to the new birds Jan 21 13:44:00 user_: The n900 gets 13.0M/s on my cheap kingston card. (read) Jan 21 13:44:01 1G Jan 21 13:44:54 ok thanks Jan 21 13:46:10 what class do u use? Jan 21 13:46:31 * ShadowJK gets more speed out of Sandisk class 4 than Kinngston class 10 in the "real world" anyway Jan 21 13:47:04 i wonder if anything higher than 4 makes sense Jan 21 13:47:04 frals: Thanks for responding to smooph :-) Jan 21 13:47:49 so q13mbit ps on cr4? Jan 21 13:47:50 Well it depends on what you want it for Jan 21 13:48:06 meego dualboot Jan 21 13:48:17 or nitroid. not sure yet Jan 21 13:48:23 heh Jan 21 13:48:55 in that case: they all suck horribly, some harder than others Jan 21 13:49:20 hm which one would u recommend? Jan 21 13:49:40 not sure Jan 21 13:50:20 135 bucks for 16gb sandisk class 10 :S Jan 21 13:50:38 that's a fullsize card Jan 21 13:50:54 sandisk doesn't make class 6 or class 10 microsdhc Jan 21 13:51:25 oops ur right :) Jan 21 13:52:37 of course, ebay will sell you a "Sandisk" class 16 if you want Jan 21 13:53:03 heh in some store atm Jan 21 13:54:16 I've been benchmarking cards for how they might perform as OS card Jan 21 13:54:45 they all suck quite horribly, but kingston stands out as crappier and sandisk seems to scale nicer Jan 21 13:55:10 it probably has more onboard cache ram and a more sophisticated cpu/software Jan 21 13:56:34 hm class 2 is the only thing they got Jan 21 13:58:52 ok thanks ill try to get a 4 Jan 21 13:59:00 later :) Jan 21 14:13:46 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> dotblank are you about? Jan 21 14:14:11 yea Jan 21 14:20:00 ShadowJK, in your tests, was class 10 good as swap? Jan 21 14:21:15 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> i haven't had a chance to build my own virtual build environment this week, so haven't made any progress compiling phoneme. had any luck compiling midp2? Jan 21 14:23:34 Hi guys, I am having some trouble. I flashed my n900 (first emmC and then rootfs) and for some reasons all the images on the n900 are corrupt? Jan 21 14:23:51 It felt like the regular flash of the rootfs went _very_ fast Jan 21 14:23:55 Like 5seconds or so. Jan 21 14:24:04 should do Jan 21 14:24:13 maybe more like 15 Jan 21 14:24:22 Nope, not that long. Jan 21 14:24:51 I will try to redownload the rootfs .bin and try it again ._. Jan 21 14:24:54 It is very wierd. Jan 21 14:26:21 if an image is corrupt it doesn't flash afaik Jan 21 14:26:57 Well, it almost feels like it pops up (using flasher in CMD) and then disappears immediatly. Jan 21 14:27:19 Does it sound like a bricked device? Even though it boots up? Jan 21 14:27:26 * GAN900 chokes reading the Atom N9 thread on Talk. Jan 21 14:27:28 Pure gold. Jan 21 14:27:39 image files seems corrupt, and every text is like squares [] Jan 21 14:27:56 sounds like windows being itself - retarded Jan 21 14:28:05 GAN900, should i waste my time and read it? Jan 21 14:28:07 Windows as in Gates? Indeed. Jan 21 14:28:31 * Marcus enjoys his ArchLinux desktop. Jan 21 14:28:42 gotta study, cya :P Jan 21 14:28:46 Have fun! Jan 21 14:28:48 :P Jan 21 14:28:53 yeah, fun.. right Jan 21 14:28:58 Exactly. Jan 21 14:29:19 * MohammadAG closes xchat - will probably get bored and start it in less than 10 mins Jan 21 14:30:29 Now this is more like it. Jan 21 14:32:37 Cheers, it seems like it works. Even though on the wiki it says you don't need to replug the USB, it seems like I had to. Jan 21 14:42:55 MohammadAG, it's pretty entertaining. Jan 21 14:46:40 GAN: You are saying it like if you were studying to be a zoologist Jan 21 14:50:21 hi everyone! Jan 21 14:51:45 I was wondering if an improvement of the contacts for fitting more fields of the vcard format is planned. Anyone knows anything about it? Jan 21 14:57:27 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> does anyone have the time to have a go at compiling the current version of phoneme_feature? either that or can anyone point me at a good guide to building your own sdk environment on a pc in relatively newbie-friendly terms? I have a spare hour tonight to set it u Jan 21 15:10:50 [DrkGUNMAN-N900], http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/c05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465/Maemo_5_SDK.html Jan 21 15:11:01 crashanddie: it's a nomenclature, not religion, you're supposed to keep it for the same reasons you keep headers in .h(pp) and sources in .c(pp) Jan 21 15:13:43 whatever floats your boat I guess :) Jan 21 15:15:52 is tracker-extract popping up during video recording just my problem here ? Jan 21 15:15:56 I think this is what causes dropped frames Jan 21 15:19:25 happened only once o.o Jan 21 15:39:47 mooo Jan 21 15:42:52 moo javispedro Jan 21 15:56:51 I wonder why I cannot browse to the AngryBirds download page in store.ovi.mobi, while I can in store.ovi.com Jan 21 15:58:03 So to download it I have to get the angry birds id # from the ovi.com store (23158) then put it on the ovi.mobi store url. Jan 21 15:59:48 no wonder I only ever visit the site once per year Jan 21 16:02:03 Hilariously unusable. Jan 21 16:03:17 i want angry birds seasons to my n900 :< Jan 21 16:06:17 has anyone tyred a version of ScummVM with the Mohawk engin on a tablet and dose myst work? Jan 21 16:07:30 wait, myst runs on scummvm? Jan 21 16:07:49 Myst has been able to run in the SVN version of ScummVM since last December. Jan 21 16:08:01 * lcuk peeks in Jan 21 16:08:01 posted in 2010 ish Jan 21 16:08:30 cool Jan 21 16:08:43 http://clone2727.blogspot.com/ Jan 21 16:08:49 http://insidethelink.ortiche.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page Jan 21 16:09:16 the question is will it work on maemo Jan 21 16:09:20 and how well Jan 21 16:10:06 I would assume so Jan 21 16:10:16 Myst required what? 100 MHz? Jan 21 16:10:36 the quacktime is the issue i would think Jan 21 16:11:15 still, it's ancient Jan 21 16:11:34 realMyst would be a nice feat Jan 21 16:13:39 my n800 woiuld explode if you tryed to do realMyst on it as 8x0 still has no workign 3d drivers :-( Jan 21 16:16:17 WANTED: (serious request) Macro photos of your monitor taken with your phone. http://bit.ly/hxYJxS #rt #meego http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/28473859623620610 Jan 21 16:19:13 but yeah ill defidenlty be keeying an eye on mohawk will be nice to be finaly able to play myst agin and hoply on an n800 n810 or n900 Jan 21 16:21:33 lcuk, but... why. Jan 21 16:22:06 to confirm a hypothosis about something Jan 21 16:22:19 i want to see just how focusable things are with phone flat on the surface Jan 21 16:23:20 you want the phone stuck to the monitor? Jan 21 16:23:30 yes Jan 21 16:23:36 flat onto the screen Jan 21 16:23:53 then see if you can macrozoom/focus as much as possible Jan 21 16:23:54 ding Jan 21 16:23:54 nice hypothesis :P Jan 21 16:24:03 does a phone monitor apply as a monitor? Jan 21 16:24:14 MohammadAG, flat surface Jan 21 16:24:17 lcuk, got my photo? Jan 21 16:24:18 also, does fcam manual qualify? Jan 21 16:24:25 manual focus* Jan 21 16:24:27 I would suggest your desktop, but the flash overwhelms it Jan 21 16:24:33 yes, whatever you can do Jan 21 16:24:42 to get the clearest shot possible Jan 21 16:24:48 lcuk did you got it? Jan 21 16:25:01 ZogG, on the forum? Jan 21 16:25:22 twitter check mentions Jan 21 16:25:45 i am following you, no Jan 21 16:26:40 N8 is interesting Jan 21 16:26:49 N86* Jan 21 16:27:05 well post them! http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=16230#post16230 Jan 21 16:27:36 hello Jan 21 16:27:48 does the maemo5 messanger based in libpurple? Jan 21 16:27:54 lcuk strange Jan 21 16:28:03 * javispedro releases yet another fm rx app, cfmradio, to extras-devel Jan 21 16:28:05 want to port an pidgin plugin Jan 21 16:28:27 javispedro, gtk? Jan 21 16:28:37 (this is the app I use so it's customized to me, the audio routing tests have been crippled so that noone blames me for damaging his device) Jan 21 16:28:51 MohammadAG: obviously. sub-second launch times. Jan 21 16:29:09 http://twitter.com/#!/ZogG/status/28481821998063616 lcuk Jan 21 16:29:11 * lcuk ponders whether I am actually following you Jan 21 16:29:17 http://twitpic.com/show/large/3s1pgh Jan 21 16:29:30 that would explain it! Jan 21 16:29:38 eichi: no Jan 21 16:29:40 lcuk i think you unfollowed as i'm flooding in russian a lot of bullshit Jan 21 16:29:44 now the question comes did I believe you when you said you did not post english often Jan 21 16:29:56 thank God. libpurple is terrible :P Jan 21 16:30:01 i don't post english a lot =( Jan 21 16:30:09 ZogG, did you actually take that picture with phone touching your screen? Jan 21 16:30:28 (thanks by the way!) Jan 21 16:30:29 oh, you wanted it to touch it? Jan 21 16:31:43 ZogG, yes please Jan 21 16:31:55 I am trying to see just how much in/out of focus it is Jan 21 16:32:07 javispedro, yay Jan 21 16:32:18 lcuk, I got "open" showing Jan 21 16:32:40 * MohammadAG uploads Jan 21 16:33:30 ZogG, white twitter client are you using? that looks swish Jan 21 16:33:32 which Jan 21 16:36:52 eichi, yes I believe so Jan 21 16:37:23 lcuk hotot Jan 21 16:38:07 lcuk, refresh post Jan 21 16:38:42 err Jan 21 16:38:46 meego forums don't resize images Jan 21 16:38:46 * MohammadAG giggles Jan 21 16:39:02 http://hotot.org/ lcuk actually it's cool. geoplugin, uploading pics if you want, plugins with simple and nice ui Jan 21 16:39:37 ZogG, it looks it :) Jan 21 16:40:25 lcuk though i like my theme (that it comes with) more than screenies on website. what distro do you use btw Jan 21 16:40:46 ZogG, whats it written in? the reflections look nifty and similar to something MohammadAG has been tinkering with Jan 21 16:40:55 http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=16235&postcount=4 lcuk Jan 21 16:41:50 yes it's my first post :P Jan 21 16:42:15 awesome MohammadAG :) and starting with openness :) Jan 21 16:42:19 lcuk emm Hotot, is a lightweight & open source Microblogging Client, coding using Python language and designed for Linux. Jan 21 16:42:42 oi, all my apps are open :P Jan 21 16:43:08 lcuk, the funny thing they released win7 version Jan 21 16:44:57 MohammadAG, lol Jan 21 16:45:42 ? Jan 21 16:46:34 MohammadAG \o/ nice thing, what monitor do you have btw Jan 21 16:46:52 i have 23 and font is small but still the picture looks blur Jan 21 16:47:05 achipa, sure about the tip you gave me on the forums? :P Jan 21 16:47:14 ZogG, LED screen, 15" :P Jan 21 16:47:26 MohammadAG there are no LED screens Jan 21 16:47:27 maximum brightness (which is a lot - quite blinding at night) Jan 21 16:47:39 threre are LED backlight or how is it called Jan 21 16:48:00 i have 23" LG flatron Wide Jan 21 16:48:01 don't get into technicalities with me :P Jan 21 16:48:15 is there application that handles the playing of ringtones, sms alert and email alerts that can be used on own application? Jan 21 16:48:19 MohammadAG yes i heard about your fail with hubs =() Jan 21 16:48:25 usbhubs* Jan 21 16:48:31 I mean if want have alert sound in my application like email alert Jan 21 16:48:38 LOL Jan 21 16:49:33 do need use phonon or something to play alert Jan 21 16:49:45 lcuk, http://twitpic.com/3s246y Jan 21 16:50:02 ZogG, its hard to get device to focus all the way down, I have been looking at this for a while, that is the point of the thread Jan 21 16:50:06 or could I just example play the email alert with dbus call Jan 21 16:50:11 or something like that? Jan 21 16:50:18 ZogG, are you not a member of meego.com? Jan 21 16:51:12 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> if there was a way of manually focussing the lens it would help. Autofovus goes do far then snaps back to blurry Jan 21 16:51:19 lcuk are you mindreader just wrote about it Jan 21 16:53:47 ZogG, did you take down the first picture? Jan 21 16:53:50 lcuk btw how do you feel about not appropriate lang? Jan 21 16:54:17 lcuk down? what you mean - i re did the experiment and uped new picture i'm gonna post Jan 21 16:54:19 well if it is Russian, I don't really know difference do I Jan 21 16:54:46 ZogG, leave others up too, its not whether its perfect, its as many examples as possible Jan 21 16:55:27 lcuk i mean in english Jan 21 16:57:04 MohammadAG, in my tests the class rating of the card seemed mostly irrelevant to swap performance Jan 21 16:57:22 MohammadAG, did i advice you http://www.webupd8.org/ ? Jan 21 16:57:50 MohammadAG, basically the class rating is stupid, and there were class 2 cards that were faster than class 6 cards, but also class 10 cards that were faster than some class 2 cards... Jan 21 16:58:12 It's probably the FTL algorithm and the MCU capabilities that matter more than the class rating Jan 21 16:58:33 things that no manufacturer publishes, and Kingston is evne know to put random ones in their cards depending on what's cheapest/available at the time Jan 21 17:00:55 ZogG, normally, no - why? Jan 21 17:01:03 faster-than-light? Jan 21 17:01:03 :o Jan 21 17:01:52 kerio, faster than light through Pb Jan 21 17:02:05 Pb? Jan 21 17:02:32 lcuk just asking, as i don't tweet a lot in english i would consider not to use that kind of lang as i do tweet in english =) Jan 21 17:03:01 FTL = Flash Translation Layer Jan 21 17:03:02 ZogG, heh Jan 21 17:04:02 ZogG, ? Jan 21 17:04:16 MohammadAG ? Jan 21 17:04:33 ShadowJK, heh, was thinking of getting a 1GB class 10 or whatever the highest class was and using it as swap Jan 21 17:04:56 what's the link? Jan 21 17:05:04 lcuk i just do swear a lot in russian and in english, even in hebrew =) but also i do respect other people who don't like it so i do it less than Jan 21 17:05:06 1G don't come in class rated Jan 21 17:06:21 MohammadAG it's nice news about ubuntu releated news, as you are ubuntu user i would recommend you. i use it to find out new apps with nice ui as well =) Jan 21 17:06:53 i would say it, but i think meego forums < TMO =) Jan 21 17:07:02 ZogG, please continue swearing like a fucking trouper Jan 21 17:07:34 trooper even Jan 21 17:07:55 lcuk as you are the only one my english speaking follower i need to respect you =))) Jan 21 17:08:24 got my N900 replacement with dust on screen :( Jan 21 17:08:51 3rd device within a week... damn nokia Jan 21 17:09:05 dust *in* screen? Jan 21 17:09:27 a black point on screen Jan 21 17:09:36 no pixel error just dirt Jan 21 17:09:38 can you wipe it off? Jan 21 17:09:51 its IN the screen. Jan 21 17:10:08 ok Jan 21 17:10:13 between screen and the surface Jan 21 17:10:37 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> still got dust in mine after the fixed the problem with vibrate Jan 21 17:10:59 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> tempted to fix it myself Jan 21 17:11:15 ThreeM, i got a lot of dust and dirt in pokets aspecially as i'm smoker and all the tabaco from packages, but never got dust there, you should change it, and not clean Jan 21 17:11:25 im just going to change the screen from the defect N900 (reboots all the time) to the Dusty one and send the old N900 back to amazon Jan 21 17:12:07 N900 issnt relly hard to deassemble Jan 21 17:13:00 no, but a black spot appears on the screen the first time you do Jan 21 17:13:33 (joking of course :P can you take a picture of the spot Jan 21 17:13:55 lcuk, hey, no discrimination here, dustspot, not black spot =) Jan 21 17:14:21 ThreeM yes, as you have two N900, put one close to others screen and take photo =) Jan 21 17:14:30 hehe Jan 21 17:14:48 maybe the repair man is also smoker Jan 21 17:15:01 its about 2x2 pixel Jan 21 17:15:11 i dont know if the N900 cam can get it :) Jan 21 17:15:51 only visible when you are on bright background... so for a internettablet its worse to have a dark dust spot on sceen Jan 21 17:15:57 right in the midlle...... Jan 21 17:16:01 check the log about close up photos Jan 21 17:16:23 ZogG, different thing Jan 21 17:16:36 i actually want an in focus pic of his repeated problem Jan 21 17:16:42 was the spot in the same place each time? Jan 21 17:16:55 its defently dirt Jan 21 17:17:11 when you push gently on screen you see the spot moving a bit Jan 21 17:17:35 die display itself is fine.... just poor build quality Jan 21 17:17:35 it tickless Jan 21 17:18:26 Sometimes it's not easy to fire the right people Jan 21 17:18:31 always an information problem Jan 21 17:21:18 haha someone just tweeted " i have TV with Linux and it got freezed" =) Jan 21 17:23:19 ive got also a tv with linux Jan 21 17:23:26 every samsung tv has it .) Jan 21 17:24:09 didn't know this Jan 21 17:24:29 there is also alternative OS Modification for it Jan 21 17:24:32 any hacked / flashable OS? Jan 21 17:24:38 Samygo or gosamy :) Jan 21 17:25:12 www.samygo.tv Jan 21 17:30:15 pupnik hey, you did love pornophoniques, didn't you? Jan 21 17:30:33 not really, but they were better than i thought they would be Jan 21 17:30:51 i actually love them Jan 21 17:31:03 the lyrics are pretty funny Jan 21 17:31:13 sad robot song is pretty awesome Jan 21 17:31:24 they are free to download Jan 21 17:31:29 and you just have bad taste =P Jan 21 17:32:48 * ZogG xmms2> Way Out West - We Love Machine ["We Love Machine"] Jan 21 17:34:32 itune> Jocko Homo - Devo ["Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo!"] Jan 21 17:35:17 hah ++ Jan 21 17:35:38 kerio itunes? what? buuuuuuuuu Jan 21 17:36:08 they had a point about devolution Jan 21 17:36:12 * ZogG sterilizing himself from any apple stuff Jan 21 17:36:53 i've never even seen itunes Jan 21 17:37:19 all good pop music is written before you turn 30 years old Jan 21 17:37:40 :) Jan 21 17:38:40 pupnik i was bitten by itunes once and took medications like for 4 months =) Jan 21 17:38:57 heheh Jan 21 17:39:25 now i have stupid 'Sad Robot' song in brain Jan 21 17:40:56 pupnik it's not stupid Jan 21 17:41:09 at least when we think about him he is not said anymore Jan 21 17:41:59 heheh Jan 21 17:42:32 reminds me of the old Asimov stories Jan 21 17:43:40 Asimov, he sounds familiar and russian Jan 21 17:43:52 is in't in Alice in the future or somwething like that Jan 21 17:44:26 all of Science fiction echoes asimov Jan 21 17:49:42 once russians were cool, but nowdays..... ehh Jan 21 17:53:50 huh Jan 21 17:53:55 mycontacts is closed source? Jan 21 18:11:23 MohammadAG, ping Jan 21 18:11:42 pong Jan 21 18:12:45 trying to get an offline/online contact notifier Jan 21 18:12:49 MohammadAG does last cssu includes any usb, battery or releated patches? Jan 21 18:12:56 no Jan 21 18:13:16 MohammadAG i updated and recetly it doesn't charge from wall charger Jan 21 18:14:11 MohammadAG it starts to charge and than it says stop charging) Jan 21 18:14:16 not related Jan 21 18:14:18 :p Jan 21 18:14:32 I didn't patch anything related to that Jan 21 18:15:51 is there a patch for infinity battery? Jan 21 18:15:59 or a cheat Jan 21 18:18:06 yeah Jan 21 18:18:12 convert it to a nuclear battery Jan 21 18:18:20 i actually have ot infinity batetr but it stoppes charging even the battery is empty Jan 21 18:18:33 charges from USB normally Jan 21 18:18:37 never happened to me Jan 21 18:19:04 funny as Nokia doesn't support phone anymore can i come to them and ask for replacement (let's say for N9) Jan 21 18:19:40 what phone? Jan 21 18:20:05 I agree with MohammadAG on infinite battery cheat. Jan 21 18:20:10 it's just too expensive Jan 21 18:20:32 luke-jr, I have my ways Jan 21 18:20:40 and idiot countries regulate it too much Jan 21 18:21:04 N9 doesn't exist yet Jan 21 18:21:12 "zomg bombs have the word 'nuclear' in them too!" Jan 21 18:22:08 ShadowJK, Jan 21 18:22:18 at least it doesn't exist to us too :P Jan 21 18:22:57 and Nokia Care couldn't care less about whether a device is supported or not Jan 21 18:22:58 who's developed on telepathy before Jan 21 18:23:43 Nokia care fixes anyways Jan 21 18:23:50 doesn't give out replacements/renewals Jan 21 18:24:38 what if it exploded? Jan 21 18:24:52 It's not like they fix anything either, they just send it off to some third party repair shop, who then orders replacement device from nokia and bills nokia for it (if it's under warranty) Jan 21 18:25:03 luke-jr, MeeGo boom Jan 21 18:26:45 MohammadAG but it's kernel bug, how they would fix it with no updates =) Jan 21 18:27:19 it could be a hardware problem Jan 21 18:27:25 http://i.imgur.com/yAfVM.jpg Jan 21 18:27:42 MohammadAG it never happened to me before actually Jan 21 18:27:52 hardware problems usually start Jan 21 18:35:27 ... soon after the end of warranty? Jan 21 18:37:31 indeed Jan 21 18:40:11 umm Jan 21 18:40:22 how do I do the hildon notifications (like SMS ones) in Qt? Jan 21 18:58:06 Hi Jan 21 19:14:20 * GAN900 is out of books he feels like reading. Jan 21 19:14:58 GAN900, back catalogue of playboy is quite interesting Jan 21 19:15:02 for the articles of course. Jan 21 19:15:09 lcuk, of course. Jan 21 19:15:22 though noticing the hairstyle changes is amusing Jan 21 19:22:46 hum i wonder how well rama will work on a tablet might be fun to play that agin and it works under dosbox Jan 21 19:24:32 reMoo Jan 21 19:25:49 it's a Sierra SCI game so it might even run under scumvm Jan 21 19:27:05 ку зщщ Jan 21 19:28:21 ZogG: If you are talking to me, no Unicode here. Jan 21 19:28:44 no i forgot to switch Jan 21 19:28:48 i said re pooo Jan 21 19:29:26 anyway it's so stupid to use battery only with software Jan 21 19:30:12 MohammadAG: ping Jan 21 19:30:18 pong Jan 21 19:30:37 pong Jan 21 19:30:46 pang Jan 21 19:31:03 double pung Jan 21 19:31:15 MohammadAG: what are you looking for? the telepathy/qt code? Jan 21 19:31:30 yeah Jan 21 19:31:36 shamus: rama any good? i suspect a cheapo myst-style adventure Jan 21 19:31:52 I actually got the hang of it, except the first uint Jan 21 19:31:57 and i'm looking for women and fame Jan 21 19:31:59 it was prity cood myst like been ages since i have palkyed it Jan 21 19:32:06 which holds contact number or something like that, got no idea how to get name from it Jan 21 19:32:07 ZogG: How is the Promised Land tonight? Jan 21 19:32:24 nothing promising here Jan 21 19:32:44 MohammadAG: let me see if I can find the code that matters.... do you have an email I can send to? Jan 21 19:34:09 mohammad7410 (at) gmail (dot) com Jan 21 19:34:28 haha Mohammad is really that common name Jan 21 19:36:06 shamus: The Last Express really blew me away if you want to try an adventure game... just recently became downloadable http://www.dotemu.com/en/the-last-express Jan 21 19:36:10 http://pit.dirty.ru/dirty/1/2011/01/21/29918-213810-b62dc3457407c01c281669b2a1081716.jpg -lol Jan 21 19:37:27 lol cute pic zogg Jan 21 19:38:09 there is a scummvm engine in development as well so it might soon be playable on n900 Jan 21 19:38:30 if you have trouble running in dosbox i can help Jan 21 19:38:58 hey pupnik Jan 21 19:39:01 hmm? scummvm already works on n900 Jan 21 19:39:13 * shamus has a n800 but underpowred but having two ful size sd card slots is handy Jan 21 19:39:36 * joga didn't read far Jan 21 19:39:45 pupnik: saw you around the gp32x forums asking for the dosbox dynrec. Jan 21 19:40:36 pupnik: on the n900 it is enabled but it is not as slow because it seems that thumb is plain slow on the n900 Jan 21 19:40:48 s/it is not as slow/it is not as fast :) Jan 21 19:40:52 MohammadAG: just sent you an email with what I think is all the code to handle the "online accounts" window on mycontacts. Jan 21 19:41:12 pupnik: ah, also it is enabled for n8x0. Jan 21 19:41:14 MohammadAG: feel free to email me back if I am not here Jan 21 19:41:17 javispedro: i compiled with the interleaved thumb and am getting 40% speed increase over the normal core Jan 21 19:41:27 hm.. Jan 21 19:41:55 iow without it ~3000 cycles before sblaster dropouts, now 4200-5000 Jan 21 19:42:04 that's @ 1ghz Jan 21 19:42:23 but i saw you mentioned you used it also Jan 21 19:42:25 yeah, I'm nowhere near that. Jan 21 19:42:46 I used the one that does not require interworking though Jan 21 19:42:47 javispedro: thumb is good when running it from slow memory (16bit too) Jan 21 19:42:56 javispedro:OMAP3 is too good for it :) Jan 21 19:43:28 RST38h: yeah, unfortunately, long ago I tested a non-thumb one done by the same person -- and ended up with similar performance. Jan 21 19:43:48 hm.. Jan 21 19:44:15 pupnik: for curiosity's sake, if you have the time, could you test the non-thumb version (should be a matter of changing a few defines) in your platform? Jan 21 19:44:21 i don't even have good benchmarks - just testing with Wing Commander 1 and Ultima Underworld1 until i get sound dropouts Jan 21 19:44:46 Meanwhile: Health care and aeronautics industries agree that FCC should set aside bandwidth for dedicated remote patient monitoring system Jan 21 19:44:49 fcrochik, thanks! Jan 21 19:44:54 I'll have a look at it in a bit Jan 21 19:45:36 pupnik: me neither, I usually test it with win3.11 =) Jan 21 19:46:00 MohammadAG: hope you will find what you are looking for. Do you mind me asking on what you are working on? Jan 21 19:46:33 fcrochik, simple online notifier Jan 21 19:46:37 javispedro win 3.11 ftw Jan 21 19:46:46 i had one back on 386 Jan 21 19:46:47 something to show a contact is online/offline with hildon Jan 21 19:46:59 MohammadAG, you should ask khertan Jan 21 19:47:12 he made one with Qt for khweeteur Jan 21 19:47:15 MohammadAG: why aren't you using mobility? Jan 21 19:47:23 ZogG, why? he never worked on telepathy Jan 21 19:47:49 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_m0O2XlVi3Mc/TTnEDLljTTI/AAAAAAAACsU/a2RNTy1Z40w/s1600/dad.jpg Jan 21 19:47:51 or you don't know how to take it of telepathy Jan 21 19:48:02 MohammadAG, does it use same libs as pidgin ? Jan 21 19:50:55 what is that? http://www.slideshare.net/kh_naba/integrated-communication-framework-for-gnome-elements-of-telepathy Jan 21 19:51:36 MohammadAG, maybe this would help http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/spec/Account.html ? Jan 21 19:52:47 fcrochik, moblity handles that? Jan 21 19:53:07 MohammadAG: yes. Jan 21 19:53:11 hmm Jan 21 19:53:22 i thought freoffice is viewer only Jan 21 19:53:53 MohammadAG: I had to use telepathy to start the calls... just to get the status mobility will do Jan 21 19:54:23 MohammadAG: there isn't a mobility module for placing calls yet (I think) Jan 21 19:55:46 fcrochik, hmm, I'll have a look at it then :) Jan 21 19:55:52 (though I've always had bad luck with Qt Mobility, everything I wanted is buggy :P) Jan 21 19:56:59 MohammadAG: The contacts module on the n900 got much better. Jan 21 19:57:15 nonono, Qt Mobility is awesome ... because it comes from Qt! Jan 21 19:57:29 i'm awesome cause i am Jan 21 19:58:04 you got it, circular reasonings works because ... ;-) Jan 21 19:58:51 fcrochik, I tried the sensors API, too buggy for me Jan 21 19:58:59 * MohammadAG looks at contacts Jan 21 19:59:08 not necessary circular - it might mean it is amazing that he hasn't stepped in front of a moving vehicle yet Jan 21 19:59:52 fcrochik, so how does Qt Mobility handle telepathy if no counterpart exists on Symbian? Jan 21 20:00:51 MohammadAG: it is all on the "backend".... On your application you don't know that you are dealing with telepathy... you just know that you are dealing with "online accounts" connected to your contacts Jan 21 20:01:14 yeah, but symbian has no backend :P Jan 21 20:01:56 useless abstractions remains useless Jan 21 20:03:53 meego forums are really terrible Jan 21 20:04:03 MohammadAG: The beauty is that your code will work regardless... you just won't find any online accounts when running on symbian... and the same code should work on meego w/o changes. Jan 21 20:04:28 fcrochik, where is the beauty in that? Jan 21 20:04:40 your. code. does. not. work. on. symbian Jan 21 20:04:45 MohammadAG: it seems that the telepathy and specially telepathy/qt is suffering a big revamp... not sure if these changes will make to the n900 Jan 21 20:05:08 mikhas: my code? you mean the mycontacts app? Jan 21 20:05:08 wow 320x240 video looks like mud nowadays Jan 21 20:05:28 I dont need library abstractions if it doesnt work on "all supported Qt platforms" Jan 21 20:05:56 better to just look for the best fitting library on every platform I want to support myself then, really Jan 21 20:07:11 mikhas: in this case the telepathy will not either... "SOME" is a little better than ONE most of the time but I do agree with you that not all abstractions are good.... \ Jan 21 21:18:32 is this a wifi driver bug? wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request Jan 21 21:19:34 sometimes i get lots of those even tho it still is connected, and then only clicking disconnect and then connect stops them Jan 21 21:20:11 & moin :) Jan 21 21:20:17 moin nox Jan 21 21:20:29 moin pupnik Jan 21 21:27:02 nox-: it sounds more like it just lost connection with the AP Jan 21 21:27:13 oh, didn't see that bit Jan 21 21:27:30 does it ever happen when you're close to the AP? Jan 21 21:29:41 yes the `ap' is maybe 2m away... Jan 21 21:30:34 well, i guess it's a bug Jan 21 21:30:42 ok thats also my guess Jan 21 21:30:42 of course, it could be in your router Jan 21 21:30:54 or in the firmware, rather than the driver Jan 21 21:31:42 nic firmware on n900? Jan 21 21:34:59 Hi all, all libraries get into /usr/lib. Any special place for qtplugins? or I just copy them to same path and they would get picked up from there? Jan 21 21:35:50 makulkar, look at /usr/lib/qt4/plugins Jan 21 21:46:08 mikhas, thanks! Jan 21 21:50:50 hi im using mameo5 sdk and wondering how come to nokia s60 font is used in the sdk browser web pages but on the real n900 other fonts are used? Jan 21 21:50:56 the^^ Jan 21 21:53:29 ok? Jan 21 21:58:58 sure it's S60 and not your OS's font? Jan 21 22:00:13 anyone know of any other "smart" phones that have Native SIP support like maemo on N900 does? Such as HTC EVO? Got an Asterisk system here and a worker with an HTC Evo, looking for options, or another phone for him Jan 21 22:00:47 i beleive some symbian phones do Jan 21 22:01:15 the N95 did Jan 21 22:01:21 and the E66 Jan 21 22:01:22 symbian phones Jan 21 22:01:25 and n900 Jan 21 22:01:26 I think the N86 has it too Jan 21 22:01:33 nothing from any other manufacturer Jan 21 22:01:35 and sip sucks Jan 21 22:01:42 lol Jan 21 22:02:04 so, hisHTC EVO will need the sipdroid app as I have been sseing then, or he needs a new phone lol Jan 21 22:02:42 you came in here to ask how to get sip support on your [friend's] android phone? :P Jan 21 22:02:54 ieatlint: lol Jan 21 22:03:35 and/or to find out if I need to buy him an N900 Jan 21 22:06:25 mtnbkr: There is no IPv6 support in SIP client provided by Maemo 5 Jan 21 22:11:42 MohammadAG: i can take screenshots! Jan 21 22:12:09 mtnbkr, sip is horrible on N900 Jan 21 22:12:28 jacekowski, sucks on N900 but awesome on N95 Jan 21 22:12:32 sip is not that bad on the n800 but still bad Jan 21 22:12:41 i forgot how 2 take scrrenshots shift ctrl p? Jan 21 22:12:55 mtnbkr, sip calls is very choppy on N900 Jan 21 22:13:09 sip sucks Jan 21 22:13:21 jacekowski, on N900 it does Jan 21 22:13:31 amen sip by it's very nature on the protical levle sucks Jan 21 22:13:43 Pauly, I know the font is different, sure it's the S60 one? Jan 21 22:14:23 shamus, dont care about protocol level. but its implementations on N900 is shitty Jan 21 22:14:57 crapy protocols == crapy clients? Jan 21 22:15:00 Nokia and its partners didnt do a very good job, lcuk ^^ Jan 21 22:15:26 yeah yeah sip is every where but it hates nats Jan 21 22:15:41 sip hates my network like the pleg Jan 21 22:15:52 shamus, there are ways to sort out nat Jan 21 22:16:26 port forwarding? Jan 21 22:16:48 shamus, stun server Jan 21 22:16:50 if the network makes you constantly switch between 3g and 3.5g, a ping running in the background with suitable size and interval will force it on 3.5 :) Jan 21 22:17:12 The thresholds some operators use for upgrading you to 3.5 are kinda close to the tiny amount SIP uses for voice.. Jan 21 22:17:51 aiui there's no such thing like switching to 3.5 Jan 21 22:18:54 there is a 1500msec burst of latency when it does switch :-) Jan 21 22:19:00 (operator dependent) Jan 21 22:19:01 trumee: Best way to solve "NAT problem" is to throw IPv4 away Jan 21 22:19:06 it's like 3g is the established call and 3.5 gets signalled whenever you shout loud enough Jan 21 22:20:24 or technically, 3.5 is a dynamic property of 3G, not a new connection mode Jan 21 22:20:55 * shamus is stuck with ipv4 as dam isp refiueses to upgrade to ipv6 and even if they did out cable modem probly is not compatable Jan 21 22:21:17 trumee, ? Jan 21 22:21:44 Jan 21 22:22:33 * shamus has never been able to make a sip call from the home network. i can use sip just fine at school but not at home Jan 21 22:23:16 lcuk, collabora needs to do some thorough testing of sip on N900 Jan 21 22:24:13 shamus, nat issues? Jan 21 22:24:14 yes? Jan 21 22:24:25 alterego, ping Jan 21 22:24:31 yeah thats my guess Jan 21 22:24:42 sry noob question cant find default scratchbox location trying to show screenshot? Jan 21 22:24:48 saved in sdk Jan 21 22:24:48 achipa, who's decision was it to remove the skip packaging step? :) Jan 21 22:25:03 of the 3 network operators here, latency in 3g (plain wcdma, network has decided it's not worth to have you on hsdpa): 268, 272, 295. Minimum amount of data to provoke upgrade from WCDMA to HSPA: 498, 255, 32. Amount of idle time on HSPA before downgrade to WCDMA, seconds: 8, 3, 5. Latency at switchover wcdma -> hsdpa: 1290, 880, 1210 ms Jan 21 22:25:29 /scratchbox/users/username/home/user/ Jan 21 22:25:30 and latency on hspa: 63, 72, 148 Jan 21 22:25:30 shamus, define a stun server in N900 Jan 21 22:25:49 I know the font is different Jan 21 22:25:56 you don't have to show me a screenshot Jan 21 22:26:00 MohammadAG: Ididntdoit... but honestly, no idea - I'm not happy with those 'don't X before Y' options that are supposed to (but don't quite) replace that stuff Jan 21 22:26:15 hi guys Jan 21 22:26:21 * shamus has a stun autodetect enableds and it dose not work Jan 21 22:26:23 I need to install rootsh without root access :P how to do it? Jan 21 22:26:46 nope Jan 21 22:26:52 shamus, i never had issues with nat over wifi or 3g. but i run my own * server Jan 21 22:26:57 application manager Jan 21 22:27:01 The bigger wakeup threshold (498 bytes) for my operator means that N900 stays on WCDMA most of the time if I just have irc going.. though if irc is very active it'll go into hspa and eat 300 - 400 mA for a minimum 8seconds after last activity:( Jan 21 22:27:05 id like for the the real n900 to use the s60 font for browser any idea how? Jan 21 22:27:08 or set R&D mode Jan 21 22:27:09 my friend has a n900 without internet access, but with the rootsh.deb file Jan 21 22:27:19 click on the file Jan 21 22:27:24 with the file manager Jan 21 22:27:31 really it works? Jan 21 22:27:37 should Jan 21 22:27:42 trying now Jan 21 22:27:43 * shamus has no acess to the house router to adjust settings and has not set up a stun server Jan 21 22:27:58 if that doesn't work, there's always red pill mode Jan 21 22:28:03 shamus, you can use public stun servers Jan 21 22:28:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsdpa Jan 21 22:28:26 * shamus has tryed the ekiga one and no joy Jan 21 22:28:33 shamus, there is quite a big list at voip-info.org Jan 21 22:28:41 ok Jan 21 22:28:42 MohammadAG: thank you very much :) Jan 21 22:28:50 it worked? Jan 21 22:28:53 yes Jan 21 22:28:53 and yw :) Jan 21 22:29:05 :) Jan 21 22:29:44 achipa, I'm back on 2.0, editing the control and changelog files doesn't change the deb name Jan 21 22:29:57 shamus, worst performance i have found is two N900s talking to each other Jan 21 22:30:11 shamus, with * in between Jan 21 22:30:25 DocScrutinizer, hey if the radio protocol doesn't require you to stay in wcdma most of the time, or enforce the high latency burst when switching to hspa, or enforce the gigantic energy consumption when in hspa mode with low latency available, then by all means go make a modem that works like that :P Jan 21 22:30:45 In the meanwhile I'm just saying what I myself have observed and what others have observed of how these modems work :P Jan 21 22:30:47 qt creator will try to copy it from somewhere else, and of course, fail Jan 21 22:30:58 MohammadAG: ? not sure how that's possible... maybe it gets overwritten ? there is now this smart versioning (=UI) in the run config... Jan 21 22:31:24 don't ask why run builds packages... Jan 21 22:31:26 There even exists scripts for 3g routers that automatically try to discover the minimum amount of traffic required to maintain hspa, so that you can click a button on the web interface and activate low latency for your skype and what not :) Jan 21 22:31:30 achipa, I know, I edited the files through there, it still looks for the old name Jan 21 22:32:01 it should read control file, not project name Jan 21 22:32:16 MohammadAG; DocScrutinizer: thanks guys you always help me with my noobish questions i know im not a real developer or anything close but i am learning things and one day when i know enough i will be but thanks 4 everything Jan 21 22:32:55 agreed, but... madde should do just that Jan 21 22:33:19 i.e. it's still debtools deep down in it's ravaged and soon to be rpmified soul... Jan 21 22:33:51 Pauly, you're welcome Jan 21 22:34:05 achipa, true, but it's Qt Creator running steps, not MADDE Jan 21 22:34:36 MohammadAG: i think im in here almost everyday asking something stupid lol Jan 21 22:35:55 you don't wanna read logs to see what I used to ask Jan 21 22:37:32 MohammadAG: well i usally read the wiki and search forums or google before i come to ask something on here i was suprised that i acually compiled a qt app and it ran on n900! nevr done anything like that :) Jan 21 22:37:55 MohammadAG: it's a weird mix :) in any case, if you feel it's a bug, poke me on monday... can't look at it right now Jan 21 22:38:13 also didn't forget about the merge request, just was a busy day :S Jan 21 22:38:35 no worries Jan 21 22:38:46 (hope to have some docs on how to direct-deploy in the FN wiki next week) Jan 21 22:38:51 Pauly, you'll learn a lot - if you want to :) Jan 21 22:39:02 I know I did, thanks to the community Jan 21 22:39:07 ShadowJK: so the modem needs a lick to switch to 3.5? that's new to me Jan 21 22:39:18 kick* Jan 21 22:39:33 It depends on the operator Jan 21 22:39:52 that's even more strange Jan 21 22:40:09 I alwys thought the modem enters 3.5 mode automatically Jan 21 22:40:09 Mine needs 498 bytes before switching. Another one needs 32 (so that's basically just any traffic at all) Jan 21 22:40:16 a lick might work too Jan 21 22:40:28 has to be acidic though Jan 21 22:40:59 * MohammadAG sits back - gets popcorn - gets ready to read N9 rumor thread Jan 21 22:41:45 in 3.5 mode my N900 eats massive amounts of power even for the 8 seconds or so of no data moving before it goes down to wcdma Jan 21 22:42:11 if data got moved through wcdma instead of hsdpa, the power consumption is smaller and goes down to "idle" faster too Jan 21 22:42:40 you can probably cook popcorn on n900 that's OCed and in 3.5G Jan 21 22:43:48 popcorn? pfft, steak ftw Jan 21 22:45:03 leave an irc client running while playing emulators on a train... Jan 21 22:45:07 rotfl Jan 21 22:45:08 :) Jan 21 22:45:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_cKTw8cB78&feature=player_embedded Jan 21 22:45:14 hellium "overdose" Jan 21 22:45:30 we are wasting helium in a criminal way right now Jan 21 22:45:49 im guesign i have a symmetric NAT Jan 21 22:45:57 o_O Jan 21 22:46:13 at least she fell in a good way Jan 21 22:46:15 wtf does that mean Jan 21 22:46:41 aiui the BTS is free to allow the modem to use a special channel ( HS-DSCH (High Speed Downlink Shared Channel)) and the MT has to send Channel Quality Indicator, CQI frequently. That's why 3(.5)G keeps eating power for several seconds, even when not sending or rcvng data Jan 21 22:46:57 she didn't hit her head :p Jan 21 22:47:48 Oh I thought that was just the cdma part of it Jan 21 22:51:26 ok that might be part of my issue i had two routers bother with nat enabled and was on the iner most one Jan 21 22:53:19 nope still nota no luck conecting to sip Jan 21 22:53:31 shamus: NAT and SIP don't play together nicely, without additional force. You frequently need STUN, and often even that's not enough and your SIP-carrier needs to provide hosted NAT traversal Jan 21 22:53:41 (or whatever it's called) Jan 21 22:54:07 yey sip and nat == pain in the ass even with stun Jan 21 22:55:34 depemds on the NAT. STUN usually works great for all but symmetric NAT (aka IP and port aware NAT), and it detects sym NAT reliably Jan 21 22:56:00 Hello Jan 21 22:56:01 semtric ugh Jan 21 22:56:54 and i think the home router is not set up for port awareness Jan 21 22:57:35 I have a problem with my N900 and I would appreciate some help. I was sending a sms when my touch screen just froze. I restarted the phone but the problem stays. I can't set my lock code. The question is how can I access the phones memory trough computer? I would love to have my contacts etc out from the phone. Jan 21 22:59:10 it's a stock wtr45g v2 but i cant change the settings on it as it has been password protected and i have no clue how it's set up Jan 21 22:59:39 shamus: some routers are set up not to allow local loopback, means a pkg addressed to the public IP of the NAT from LAN won't go back to the corresponding IP:port of LAN Jan 21 23:00:12 ahh Jan 21 23:00:25 it that case STUN detects a sym NAT even though there isn't - technically Jan 21 23:00:44 wrt54g needs the occasional reboot too Jan 21 23:01:11 no were near as often as the dam helken Jan 21 23:02:19 * shamus is conecting to the belkin wifi router witch is hooked up to the same network as the wrt45g witch is hooked up to the cable modem Jan 21 23:02:22 shamus: e.g ZyXEL routers do this Jan 21 23:03:02 wrt54g owners run stock? Jan 21 23:03:07 seriously? it's a hacker's router :p Jan 21 23:03:14 you can switch that shit off (enable local loopback) via telnet - for ZyXEL Jan 21 23:03:22 i know but it's my dads Jan 21 23:03:33 and he passowred protected it Jan 21 23:03:53 pin + pin hole = win Jan 21 23:04:26 moh loves to talk gibberish Jan 21 23:04:30 :-P Jan 21 23:04:33 pin + pin hole == wooping joking but still he is very anil when it come to netowrk setup Jan 21 23:04:56 make a deal with him so that you paid for his router and is legally yours and he gets to choose a router of equivalent price Jan 21 23:05:04 DocScrutinizer, it's the settings reset hole Jan 21 23:05:06 clears password Jan 21 23:05:12 shamus: see if UPnP is enabled Jan 21 23:05:29 doubt ity prity sure i tryed that already Jan 21 23:05:43 the firmwere has not been updated in years if ever Jan 21 23:06:11 E7 looks sexy Jan 21 23:06:12 so tempted to shove a hombrewe firm were on on as tell dad to bite me Jan 21 23:06:50 shamus, make a deal with him so that you paid for his router and is legally yours and he gets to choose a router of equivalent price Jan 21 23:06:52 heh Jan 21 23:06:58 aaah - btw: many routers have an ALG, an Application Layer Gateway, means they run a proxy for SIP, and that more often than not is fubar Jan 21 23:07:45 you should disable it if there's any, and also you chould change 5060 to e.g 5066 Jan 21 23:07:56 could* Jan 21 23:08:08 suggestions for mid-range slightly advanced phones? Jan 21 23:08:15 yeah yeah well techinicly it's the familys router but he is the so call network god of the house Jan 21 23:08:32 5530 looks nice Jan 21 23:09:04 5060 -> 5066 is a client side thing Jan 21 23:09:16 bypassing ALG Jan 21 23:09:58 all common SIP providers support SIP n other than port 5060 as well Jan 21 23:10:28 the ALG however won't detect 5066 as SIP Jan 21 23:10:51 anyone know the package name of the phone dialer app? Jan 21 23:11:01 haha Jan 21 23:11:13 nope, sorry Jan 21 23:11:25 rtcom-dialer-ui is the process name Jan 21 23:11:32 jonwil: dialcentral? Jan 21 23:11:33 and binary Jan 21 23:11:44 shamus: BS Jan 21 23:12:01 same package name prolly Jan 21 23:12:06 oh shit that rthe google voice one Jan 21 23:12:12 jonwil: a apt-cache search should reveal it then Jan 21 23:12:17 whatever it is, it should appear in the dependancies list of telepathy-ring since it depends on it Jan 21 23:12:24 or not Jan 21 23:12:40 [18:09:49] all common SIP providers support SIP n other than port 5060 as well Jan 21 23:12:41 prolly not Jan 21 23:12:43 what⁇⁇?/ Jan 21 23:12:49 I haven't seen *any* that do that Jan 21 23:13:17 telepathy-ring should be in rdepends of dialer, but not the other way round Jan 21 23:13:38 luke-jr: you probably never tried Jan 21 23:14:05 in short sip +SOHO == pain but solvable with a bit of poking with a pointy stick Jan 21 23:14:30 DocScrutinizer: nope, I assume they'd document it somewhere Jan 21 23:15:21 they don't Jan 21 23:15:57 DocScrutinizer, rtcom-call-ui Jan 21 23:16:08 or that :-P Jan 21 23:16:08 how didn't I notice that... Jan 21 23:16:39 (sorry, coffee is too thin for me to wake up) Jan 21 23:17:01 the description is epic Jan 21 23:17:03 time for 12648430 Jan 21 23:17:03 rtcom-call-ui - RTCom Call UI Jan 21 23:17:06 so descriptive Jan 21 23:17:37 yeah, shoot them at the wall, with real BS Jan 21 23:19:04 and I don't mean bullets of frozen BS, I mean lots of stinking warm BS Jan 21 23:20:50 probably best fired from old cannons Jan 21 23:21:35 ok, sounds like rtcom-call-ui only talks to telepathy over a dbus interface. That means that if you wanted to implement something that pre-processes phone call requests you could hack telepathy-ring to use a slightly different dbus name then build a translation layer that talks over the real dbus name. Jan 21 23:21:48 it looks like its only using dbus anyway Jan 21 23:22:49 or make that owl shit - might teach them wisdom Jan 21 23:23:16 as for GPS, all the secret stuff is in the location-server daemon which is another impossible-to-reverse-engineer blob Jan 21 23:24:03 but I guess we can't do that or we'd lose 75% of our gifted developers Jan 21 23:25:11 "pkg: foobar grobbler. Desc: grobbles foobar" seems to be a common practice Jan 21 23:26:46 and for me should become one of the killer criteria of QC Jan 21 23:26:59 wow DocScrutinizer - there is no match for regexp grobbler Jan 21 23:27:00 so yeah not sure if its worth digging further into GPS/location Jan 21 23:27:04 but that's a fantastic name Jan 21 23:27:28 >>missng comprehensive description -> rm -rf, userdel<< Jan 21 23:30:06 mail $USER -s "your promotion of foobar grobbler got deleted and your accound nuked" you can do better dude, try again! Jan 21 23:30:31 account* Jan 21 23:34:19 jonwil: thanks for update. Yes if that's actually the case that telepathy is completely d-bus based API, then I know we could intercept the dbus msgs, by implementing a proxy or whatever Jan 21 23:35:07 alas dbus has no generic means to intercept and mangle msgs, that I know of Jan 21 23:36:15 umm, is this session or system bus? Jan 21 23:36:35 session bus would be rather simple Jan 21 23:36:45 unsure Jan 21 23:36:47 compared to system Jan 21 23:37:25 hell, we should hack telepathy-ring to support hooks Jan 21 23:37:59 the only really proper way to implement this Jan 21 23:38:27 err telepathy at large, not sure about the ring bit Jan 21 23:40:21 * DocScrutinizer pondering Jan 21 23:41:10 given the fact rtcom-call-ui clearly is a session thing (it has a X gui), the dbus call should be session bus Jan 21 23:41:49 given the fact we got only one non-multitasking modem, it might be system bus as well Jan 21 23:42:25 nah, but several users might use SIP connections concurrently, so clearly session Jan 21 23:42:50 ok, so would we need to clone telepathy-ring to add something usefull to this? Jan 21 23:42:50 a call always is a session action Jan 21 23:42:58 i'm looking now at that windows phone Jan 21 23:43:03 and it's really nice Jan 21 23:43:11 or would cloning that be a waste of time? Jan 21 23:43:26 depends Jan 21 23:43:31 i really hope it would do something to iphone Jan 21 23:43:50 depends on what? Jan 21 23:44:37 for call intercepting it's enough to hack generic telepathy on dbus-interface level, as I gather calls via GSM and calls via SIP are using the same telepathy API, and that's the API we want a hook in it Jan 21 23:45:25 aiui telepathy-ring is the gsm-specific blob Jan 21 23:45:30 yes it is Jan 21 23:45:31 unrelated to SIP Jan 21 23:45:43 so would it be worth trying to clone? Jan 21 23:45:54 we want to intercept all calls, not only gsm calls Jan 21 23:46:24 ok, so we dont need to clone it for anything then Jan 21 23:46:33 prolly not Jan 21 23:46:36 I will remove it from my "stuff worth trying to clone" list Jan 21 23:47:08 the only reason its likely closed is that it uses closed dbus interfaces to talk lower in the stack to the CSD daemon Jan 21 23:47:21 what would be the best is do full reverse of modem firmware Jan 21 23:47:28 and therefore phonet interface Jan 21 23:47:47 thats not likely to happen :P Jan 21 23:47:51 hmm, I guess you could ask staff@colabora (lcuk, Robot101) about the reasons it's closed Jan 21 23:48:10 jonwil: that's not exactly precise Jan 21 23:48:35 we already know a bit about phonet Jan 21 23:48:35 we just need a bit more devs Jan 21 23:48:48 more time Jan 21 23:48:56 and the signing key Jan 21 23:49:00 :-P Jan 21 23:49:04 we don't have to modify it Jan 21 23:49:13 ha Jan 21 23:49:16 i just had an idea Jan 21 23:49:18 ok, then it's feasible Jan 21 23:49:26 time? Jan 21 23:49:29 what about trying to flash firmware from other rapuyama based phone Jan 21 23:49:31 we have all the time we need Jan 21 23:49:47 if that works Jan 21 23:49:56 then there is a chance Jan 21 23:49:58 isnt phonet documented via ofono and www.wirelessmodemapi.com? Jan 21 23:50:03 jonwil: no Jan 21 23:50:09 jacekowski: that's not a very new idea, anyway an interesting project, though it prolly gives you a brick Jan 21 23:50:10 jonwil: only not important parts of it Jan 21 23:51:08 DocScrutinizer, worst case scenario = crossed out sim Jan 21 23:51:10 well, I thought http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com is pretty complete Jan 21 23:51:19 MohammadAG: sure Jan 21 23:51:19 we already know how maemo reacts to a failed modem Jan 21 23:51:21 which bits of the interface to the modem are not documented? Anything telephony related will be documented by ofono eventually Jan 21 23:51:45 since ofono will implement all telephony bits Jan 21 23:52:12 jonwil: any service monitor mode might or might not be implemented in cellmo FW but never will get documented Jan 21 23:52:20 start porting telephony Jan 21 23:52:33 ofono* Jan 21 23:52:55 cant port ofono to n900 without throwing away other large parts of the phone that rely on the old telephony stack Jan 21 23:53:03 Lots of the apps would need to be replaced Jan 21 23:53:11 and if you do that, you may as well just go to MeeGo Jan 21 23:53:18 that's the crux Jan 21 23:53:29 Lots of the apps would need to be replaced Jan 21 23:53:31 phone Jan 21 23:53:46 SMS would need replacing Jan 21 23:53:47 reverse engineer the rest Jan 21 23:53:49 maps Jan 21 23:53:52 put a compatibility wrapper Jan 21 23:53:56 conversations Jan 21 23:54:01 wrapper Jan 21 23:54:16 in any case IMO its not worth trying to port ofono to maemo Jan 21 23:54:29 anyone know where fapman reads the sources.list? Jan 21 23:54:32 for sure it's not Jan 21 23:54:39 there is nothing ofono supports that the current telephony stack does not support Jan 21 23:54:47 psycho_oreos, /opt/fapman(tab) Jan 21 23:54:54 MohammadAG, ta Jan 21 23:55:06 yw Jan 21 23:55:13 meh Jan 21 23:55:14 WUT? fsckng fapman writes to /opt??? Jan 21 23:55:24 yes Jan 21 23:55:25 jonwil: The dogma that closed source is good. Jan 21 23:55:32 ~nuke fapman Jan 21 23:55:32 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at fapman ... B☢☢M! Jan 21 23:55:45 I don't like closed source Jan 21 23:55:46 lots of apps write to /opt :p Jan 21 23:56:28 I'll create a daemon to track down, kill -9, and apt-get remove purge all those Jan 21 23:56:29 who does Jan 21 23:56:48 apt-get writes to /opt Jan 21 23:56:49 :P Jan 21 23:57:01 ehh? Jan 21 23:57:08 cache Jan 21 23:57:10 on installing, yes Jan 21 23:57:15 nah Jan 21 23:57:33 ls -l /var/cache/apt/archives Jan 21 23:57:42 please don't tell me apt-get holds a cache on /opt Jan 21 23:57:42 h-e-n was almost about to write to /opt Jan 21 23:57:48 then hit myself Jan 21 23:57:52 I hit* Jan 21 23:57:54 MohammadAG: heh, for what? Jan 21 23:58:07 .hostmode alive status file Jan 21 23:58:20 there is folder for that Jan 21 23:58:23 /var/run/ Jan 21 23:58:37 or you could use shm Jan 21 23:58:49 btw, csd-sms plugin exports something called IncomingCBS via something (probably dbus). Nothing I can find on the phone uses that though. Jan 21 23:58:52 I'm simply pushing a fix that changes permissions of /opt to go-w, and owner to install-admin Jan 21 23:59:07 then add apt-get group install-admin Jan 21 23:59:08 done Jan 22 00:00:01 that's how a decent system config should have looked like from beginning Jan 22 00:00:09 modulo ~optification Jan 22 00:00:20 heh Jan 22 00:00:22 but that's not related here Jan 22 00:00:27 well Jan 22 00:00:32 where else would one write? Jan 22 00:00:44 hell, to /home maybe Jan 22 00:00:53 as root? Jan 22 00:01:02 yes, even as root Jan 22 00:01:06 heh, got samba/apache2/php5/cups working on n900, what else can i overload it with Jan 22 00:01:08 o_O Jan 22 00:01:34 start a hosting service Jan 22 00:01:38 though root's home usually is /root Jan 22 00:01:40 good question Jan 22 00:01:46 how is that cell broadcast working Jan 22 00:01:51 cell just sends it every so often Jan 22 00:01:52 /root is on / Jan 22 00:01:59 and that's all? Jan 22 00:02:05 jacekowski: yes Jan 22 00:02:37 ok, so going over my list, WiFi signal strength is already made available, someone with UI skills I dont yet have would need to write the status bar plugin for it. Jan 22 00:02:57 reverse engineering telepathy-ring is a waste of time Jan 22 00:02:58 jacekowski: I told MohammadAG about /ver/run. Seems he nce again doesn't like to listen Jan 22 00:03:19 woah woah woah Jan 22 00:03:21 since we can hook the dbus interface above telepathy instead Jan 22 00:03:26 did I say I write to /opt? Jan 22 00:04:48 jonwil: status bar applet for WIFI is closed, so replacing it by a better version is hard or even impossible Jan 22 00:04:59 ok, which applet is it? Jan 22 00:05:08 don't make me port network-manager Jan 22 00:05:16 it's related to the closed icd2 Jan 22 00:05:18 MohammadAG should know it Jan 22 00:05:28 Can't you simply uninstall the status-bar-applet? Jan 22 00:06:03 /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/connui-internet-status-menu-item.so Jan 22 00:06:15 SpeedEvil, or move the desktop file, same effect Jan 22 00:06:17 thanks MohammadAG Jan 22 00:06:29 anytime Jan 22 00:06:45 /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/connui-cellular-status-item.so Jan 22 00:06:52 is the 3G one Jan 22 00:09:09 libovipromotionwidget.so WAAAH, rm -fffff Jan 22 00:09:22 ok, so for the wifi thing would we need to reverse engineer connui-internet-status-menu-item.so or would it be enough to just write something new and remove the old plugin? Jan 22 00:09:40 good question Jan 22 00:09:43 write new, replace it Jan 22 00:10:06 of course, we don't know where icd2 lives... Jan 22 00:10:08 MohammadAG: assuming tha tthe thing driving it does not object to it going missing Jan 22 00:10:19 exactly Jan 22 00:10:25 let's try Jan 22 00:10:41 my n900 is tethered to my laptop in order to get internet. is there a way show whats on the phone on the laptop? Jan 22 00:10:57 removed Jan 22 00:11:03 did that amke any sense? Jan 22 00:11:12 its just a status bar widget that calls functions to get the status Jan 22 00:11:17 or may register callbacks Jan 22 00:11:19 MohammadAG: now I guess try to boot to see if you hit any dogs Jan 22 00:11:19 need a quicky Jan 22 00:11:33 SpeedEvil, R&D, doesn't make a diff Jan 22 00:11:36 but Jan 22 00:11:43 ah Jan 22 00:11:46 what's the command to open connection dialog? Jan 22 00:12:05 it's on the dbus page Jan 22 00:12:38 SpeedEvil, actually Jan 22 00:12:42 maemo should boot Jan 22 00:12:46 Jeenx: try sftp://rot@n900 Jan 22 00:12:49 and networking will work Jan 22 00:12:59 Jeenx: try sftp://root@ Jan 22 00:13:05 it already works without it (see h-e-n + ethernet) Jan 22 00:13:12 MohammadAG: I was meaning - what if ICD is tied to it more than we thought, and ICD has a watchdog Jan 22 00:13:24 yeah Jan 22 00:13:29 there is no reason why ICD cares about the UI layers above Jan 22 00:13:33 device would bootloop Jan 22 00:13:35 jonwil: No, there isn't. Jan 22 00:13:43 jonwil: That doesn't mean it's not the case. Jan 22 00:13:48 DocScrutinizer: on the phone or the laptop? Jan 22 00:13:55 on laptop Jan 22 00:14:19 Jeenx: check usb-networking wikipage Jan 22 00:14:46 k Jan 22 00:14:48 thanx Jan 22 00:14:49 time to kill icd2 Jan 22 00:15:04 kill, pussycat, kill! Jan 22 00:15:42 no no. "Faster pussycat! Kill, kill!" Jan 22 00:15:45 am I here? Jan 22 00:15:47 is the proper incarnation Jan 22 00:15:53 MohammadAG: no Jan 22 00:16:03 killing icd2 restarts telepathy Jan 22 00:16:42 test Jan 22 00:16:46 ~ping Jan 22 00:16:46 ~pong Jan 22 00:17:10 ~ding Jan 22 00:17:11 dong Jan 22 00:17:20 ~ping Jan 22 00:17:20 ~pong Jan 22 00:17:36 ~king Jan 22 00:17:36 i guess king is Dessimat0r Jan 22 00:17:38 actually Jan 22 00:17:44 ~pong Jan 22 00:17:44 ~ping Jan 22 00:17:45 telepathy continues to run Jan 22 00:17:46 M680-03-4_RD_001:~# while true; do killall -9 icd2; done Jan 22 00:17:53 nice hostname, i must say Jan 22 00:18:15 couldn't resist, sorry Jan 22 00:18:23 muhahaha Jan 22 00:18:24 it looks so much geekier than Nokia-N900 Jan 22 00:18:33 anyway Jan 22 00:18:41 icd2 can be replaced Jan 22 00:18:46 IroN900 and t900 here ;-) Jan 22 00:19:03 but Jan 22 00:19:07 the first time i killed it Jan 22 00:19:12 t900 sounds like arnold Jan 22 00:19:15 wlan0 disassociated and associated again Jan 22 00:20:01 hmm Jan 22 00:20:10 how would one do a 3G connection? Jan 22 00:20:18 err? Jan 22 00:20:23 or would a rewrite cover that too? Jan 22 00:20:25 looking at connui-internet-status-menu-item.so, it doesnt look insanely hard to clone. I think I might try it, it doesnt seem to be calling that many undocumented calls Jan 22 00:20:55 if it's easy to initiate a 3G connection Jan 22 00:21:01 then i'd say rewrite icd2 Jan 22 00:21:08 wl1251 is open Jan 22 00:21:13 it's not too hard, as long as the other parts stay the same Jan 22 00:21:21 no, icd2 would be a pain in the ass to rewrite Jan 22 00:21:31 it talks to a lot of closed low level libs Jan 22 00:21:44 nonono, icd2 has lots of really (this time I mean it) cute stuff to handle connections and connection handover Jan 22 00:22:09 what's the dbus to open connui dialog :P Jan 22 00:22:30 which dialog? Jan 22 00:22:54 yeah icd2 seems line one of those things whereby even if you reverse engineer it, you will be forever finding corner cases you missed in your reverse engineering Jan 22 00:23:16 jonwil: exactly Jan 22 00:23:50 and Nokia seems to be really proud of that paticular bit of proprietary IP Jan 22 00:24:04 wonder what meego is doing there? Jan 22 00:24:12 * jonwil checks meego repos Jan 22 00:24:18 network manager I guess Jan 22 00:25:21 Mnetworkmanager :-P Jan 22 00:26:15 bad news Jan 22 00:26:23 bad news what? Jan 22 00:26:41 N900 exploded XD Jan 22 00:26:54 dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.icd_ui /com/nokia/icd_ui com.nokia.icd_ui.show_conn_dlg boolean:false Jan 22 00:27:01 returns no saved connections Jan 22 00:27:15 actually no connections at all Jan 22 00:27:23 that's expected bahviour? Jan 22 00:27:25 oh right Jan 22 00:27:27 * MohammadAG facepalms Jan 22 00:27:31 i killed icd2 Jan 22 00:27:33 xD Jan 22 00:28:28 ok, so reverse engineering icd2 is out of the question (although some of its plugins may be fesable if there is a legitimate use case for cloning them) Jan 22 00:28:52 umm, yep Jan 22 00:29:10 any of the icd2 plugins worth reverse engineering? Jan 22 00:29:53 either the network or policy plugins? Jan 22 00:29:55 icd2 licence change request might work though, if we got a real itch to scratch Jan 22 00:30:16 policy, YEAH Jan 22 00:30:29 I think we could write our own policy plugin if we wanted to Jan 22 00:30:30 hmm, are you sure that cell broadcast is just pushed from tower Jan 22 00:30:37 because it looks like you may have to register to recieve it Jan 22 00:30:44 policies are braindead, no way to implement nice policies Jan 22 00:30:47 ok Jan 22 00:30:48 screw replacing icd2 Jan 22 00:30:48 it got messy Jan 22 00:30:55 s/nice/smart/. Jan 22 00:31:09 jacekowski: you need to register with the modem to tell it you are interested in CBS Jan 22 00:31:16 jacekowski: so it sends you them Jan 22 00:31:19 AIUI Jan 22 00:31:35 status bar applet can be easily replaced Jan 22 00:31:42 I could do it, but I'm a gtk noob Jan 22 00:31:53 jacekowski: subscription to CBC is going to modem, so it starts listening Jan 22 00:32:07 Do I see any volunteers Jan 22 00:32:19 * MohammadAG hears javispedro, even while he's offline Jan 22 00:32:48 my libicd-3g-ipv6 module could be changed to do ipv4, I don't know if that's really useful though Jan 22 00:32:58 jacekowski: SMS-CB definitely is a connectionless point-to-many protocoll Jan 22 00:33:22 jacekowski: braodcast at its best Jan 22 00:35:06 jonwil: I'm absolutely sure we won't run short on topics for your RE todo list :-) Jan 22 00:35:20 ok so for icd2 we have the icd2 binary, icd2 policy plugins, network_eap plugin, network_gprs plugin, network_ipv4 plugin, network_wlan plugin, network_wps plugin, libicd_settings, libicd_log, libicd_dbus Jan 22 00:35:30 Any of those worth doing? Jan 22 00:35:45 I dont think a license change request for icd2 is likely to go anywhere Jan 22 00:35:56 prolly not Jan 22 00:36:01 it is Jan 22 00:36:05 very likely Jan 22 00:36:10 why do you say that? Jan 22 00:36:11 * MohammadAG points to trash Jan 22 00:36:16 :) Jan 22 00:36:31 ok, so any of those bits of icd worth trying to clone? Jan 22 00:36:52 clone the status bar applet first Jan 22 00:36:55 it's easy to do Jan 22 00:37:06 And beneficial. Jan 22 00:37:07 yeah its on the list Jan 22 00:37:13 also Jan 22 00:37:14 As wifi status would be nice Jan 22 00:37:17 add signal Jan 22 00:37:18 but is there anything in icd2 worth adding to the list? Jan 22 00:37:21 yea Jan 22 00:37:27 A nice little varying antenna, and maybe colour for open/closed Jan 22 00:37:30 nope Jan 22 00:37:32 and I couldn't say from those names you listed which of them are the interesting ones Jan 22 00:37:54 ok, so I wont put any of icd2 stuff on the list then Jan 22 00:38:13 SpeedEvil, or the same icon Jan 22 00:38:23 but modify the waves Jan 22 00:38:23 the "good bits" will be in the icd2 binary and maybe the libicd_xxx libraries Jan 22 00:38:24 depends on usecases and what they would touch Jan 22 00:38:32 make it 5-waves Jan 22 00:38:35 show signal Jan 22 00:38:37 none of which are worth cloning Jan 22 00:38:41 MohammadAG: that's what I mean Jan 22 00:38:46 I mean none of which are clonable Jan 22 00:38:47 :) Jan 22 00:38:50 icd2 daemon is too hard Jan 22 00:39:00 policy plugins could be done Jan 22 00:39:06 but do we have a use case for cloning those? Jan 22 00:39:11 need to learn C and Gtk Jan 22 00:39:13 ICD doesn't let you do all sorts of potentially interesting stuff. Jan 22 00:39:27 jonwil: yes, have smarter policies Jan 22 00:39:38 jonwil: priorities Jan 22 00:39:49 jonwil: conditional priorities even Jan 22 00:39:53 For example, you can't tether the phone to your computers internet. Jan 22 00:40:18 so the policy plugins are what control network priorities and stuff? Jan 22 00:40:21 but you can tether your computer's inte... nevermind Jan 22 00:40:24 And PAN is entirely unsupported Jan 22 00:40:27 yes, a very common unsupported one Jan 22 00:40:43 SpeedEvil: the n900 getting internet access via pan? Jan 22 00:40:43 (tether to PC's internet) Jan 22 00:40:51 MrBawb: in principle Jan 22 00:41:04 getting internet via usb should be possible with just a icd plugin Jan 22 00:41:07 MrBawb: Or indeed, tethering through bluetooth on another phone Jan 22 00:41:33 Or via host-mode, through a dongle. Jan 22 00:41:54 getting internet via pan is also possible via an icd plugin Jan 22 00:41:55 and managing priorities for all of those Jan 22 00:42:05 yeah Jan 22 00:42:12 In many ways the UI is harder than the low-level Jan 22 00:42:17 UI and policy framework Jan 22 00:42:32 you know Jan 22 00:42:39 Nokia spent time on Maemo 5 Jan 22 00:42:49 sadly, most of that time went to waste Jan 22 00:42:53 :/ Jan 22 00:43:19 the more i compare stock mediaplayer to mine Jan 22 00:43:24 the more things I find Jan 22 00:43:49 the small details they looked at are hard to spot, and hard to code Jan 22 00:43:54 like if you notice Jan 22 00:44:13 hmmm Jan 22 00:44:15 the now playing indicator is destoryed/hidden+stopped on each window switch Jan 22 00:44:19 Jan 22 00:43:48 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: ISI_SMS .597141> isiclient_sms_run(): SMS_STATE_START (sms_pp_routing_req, sms_gsm_cb_routing_req, [sms_storage_status_update_req], sim_sms_req_read_parameter) Jan 22 00:44:28 Jan 22 00:43:48 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: ISI_SMS .604588> resp_cell_broadcast_subscription(): Incoming cell broadcast receive status:0 OK Jan 22 00:44:29 and recreated on each window Jan 22 00:44:31 Jan 22 00:43:48 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[2537]: ISI_SMS .604832> resp_sms_subscription(): Incoming sms receive status:0 OK Jan 22 00:44:32 ] Jan 22 00:44:59 The coding style and choice of which bits to open in maemo makes sense. Jan 22 00:45:02 now playing window is always recreated, a bit sad Jan 22 00:45:24 time and memory waster Jan 22 00:45:44 If you start out from the perspective of 'Ok - we want to make an openish phone, but we absolutely don't want to allow other phone makers to gain anything from what the community codes'. Jan 22 00:46:07 'What bits do we need to close, and how should we obscure them to make them hard to reverse engineer'. Jan 22 00:46:19 reverse engineer by the community. Jan 22 00:46:47 A large number of interconnected non-documented daemons, that all talk to each other, and you can't replace piecemeal - is pretty much spot-on for that. Jan 22 00:47:08 can anybody check if csd has watchdog registered with dsme? Jan 22 00:47:12 or some other nasty stuff Jan 22 00:47:20 jacekowski: o.O Jan 22 00:47:39 kill it Jan 22 00:47:49 if it starts again / reboots device Jan 22 00:47:53 i don't want to reboot my phone Jan 22 00:47:57 that's why i'm asking Jan 22 00:48:05 What's the binary name? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 22 00:48:05 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 22 00:52:37 2011 Jan 22 00:52:46 maybe meego needs cheap hardware to succeed Jan 22 00:52:50 pupnik: I mean IBM - back when IBM used to not sell mainframes. They would only lease you one - the software came free. Often with source. Jan 22 00:52:59 ah ok Jan 22 00:53:22 pupnik: Closed source really took off (as I understand it) once this went away, and you actually had to buy software. Jan 22 00:54:30 hmm... Jan 22 00:56:40 I just find it incredibly lame of Nokia to tell us a bout their interest in safety, differentiation, safety, quality, when it comes to rationale why some bits need to keep closed. I see the Nokia internal structures and hirarchies causing such crap excuses to come and even believed by those spreading them, and I don't like it Jan 22 00:58:09 'And of these, differentiation is king' Jan 22 00:59:20 the running gag of maemo "we can't open core apps, however crap and buggy they are. We want to differentiate (to the inferior)" XD Jan 22 01:00:39 ir short: "that's not a bug, that's a feature" Jan 22 01:01:08 DocScrutinizer, btw have you seen this bug? wlan0: driver reports beacon loss from AP cf1bb52c - sending probe request Jan 22 01:01:17 ap is maybe 2m away... Jan 22 01:01:45 and when i see those i get them until i click disconnect and then connect again Jan 22 01:01:46 PSM Jan 22 01:01:51 psm? Jan 22 01:01:59 power saving mode Jan 22 01:02:26 it's a timing thing, based on exact scheduled slots of active time Jan 22 01:02:37 hmm Jan 22 01:02:42 is it fixable? Jan 22 01:02:55 if the AP doesn't implement it correctly, then that's probably what you'll get Jan 22 01:03:27 oh its an ap thing... Jan 22 01:03:34 well this is hotapd Jan 22 01:03:37 nox-: maybe your AP has config options you can tweak Jan 22 01:03:40 hostapd even Jan 22 01:04:07 like freq of beacons sent Jan 22 01:04:29 also there seem to be parameters directly related to PSM - some AP allow tuning them Jan 22 01:04:40 oh no the beacons get sent, i see them in wireshark... Jan 22 01:04:50 wonder if you can get bacon-scent cologne Jan 22 01:05:06 yeah, but the freq range is from 10/s .. 0.1/s Jan 22 01:05:19 even 50/s seens sometimes Jan 22 01:06:21 ok, so for ICD2, the policy plugins are on my todo list. The icd2 daemon is too hard. Jan 22 01:06:26 nox-: anyway you never should use hidden SSID Jan 22 01:06:37 The libraries (libicd_settings, libicd_dbus and libicd_log) are pointless Jan 22 01:06:45 since only icd2 uses them Jan 22 01:06:50 on none of your configured connections Jan 22 01:07:05 and the network plugins are useless since we can write our own if we need to Jan 22 01:07:07 hmm Jan 22 01:08:06 btw there seems to be a libicd-network-usb package Jan 22 01:08:13 oh wait thats in extras-devel Jan 22 01:08:22 nox-: if you got one single connection configured with hidden SSID, then your WLAN in N900 needs to actively ping every AP with hidden SSID it detects -> TX -> battery consumption Jan 22 01:08:49 aah Jan 22 01:09:28 does anybody have info about content of that cbsms? **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 22 04:42:16 2011 Jan 22 04:42:43 oh i also have power kernel could that have something to do with it? Jan 22 04:43:57 it should work with and without bq* Jan 22 05:07:59 * nox- installs libicd-network-usb too while he has extras-devel enabled Jan 22 05:16:22 hi Jan 22 05:21:15 hm around 300 mA, 150 events Jan 22 05:24:11 * nox- disables extras-devel again Jan 22 05:28:04 Is that with screen off? Jan 22 05:28:46 no Jan 22 05:28:50 and with wifi on Jan 22 05:29:01 now testing w wifi and screen off Jan 22 05:29:12 leave it running in an xterm, and lock screen Jan 22 05:29:45 i just waited for it to turn off by itself Jan 22 05:29:54 Or that Jan 22 05:30:12 ah thats better, 15 mA, 70 events Jan 22 05:31:04 now lets see w screen off and wifi on Jan 22 05:31:51 wow still 200 mA Jan 22 05:32:45 and it wasnt even sending anything... Jan 22 05:33:46 ok im thinking the battery is toast on my n800 as it's barly lastign a day in offline mode then agin i recived it with a 350ma charger vs the tipical hevy douty one as that lower power one is "eco frindly" go figure Jan 22 05:36:37 A 350ma one? Jan 22 05:36:45 That is not hte standard nokia Jan 22 05:36:48 oh Jan 22 05:36:49 n800, sorry Jan 22 05:36:50 no idea Jan 22 05:37:32 n900 might be getign the spotlight but n8x0 is still not deat yet Jan 22 05:40:34 n800 used a different battery? Jan 22 05:41:15 shamus: they're both dead as fuck Jan 22 05:41:32 the n900 is just less rotten Jan 22 05:41:40 :) Jan 22 05:41:54 why, nokia ;_; Jan 22 05:46:36 ah 20 mA with wifi powersave on max Jan 22 05:46:59 iinm n900 is the only one to have a different battery compared to the rest of maemo series Jan 22 05:47:07 now ill have to wait for the bug to reappear ans check current then... Jan 22 05:47:14 s/ans/and/ Jan 22 05:47:15 nox- meant: now ill have to wait for the bug to reappear and check current then... Jan 22 05:47:26 psycho_oreos, oh Jan 22 05:48:57 nox-, and the previous generation had a slightly larger battery, were more readily available. nokia decided to twist our arms with a smaller battery and a completely different variant that shared with x6, 5800 Jan 22 05:49:09 :( Jan 22 05:51:03 hey Jan 22 05:51:26 i have openssh installed on my n900. should i set the root pw in order to login as root? Jan 22 05:51:52 id say you should better disable ssh root logins Jan 22 05:52:20 (if they arent already) Jan 22 05:52:21 yea. probably better. can i create new accounts just with adduser i guess Jan 22 05:52:23 media: you get prompted to set a password on installof openssh server Jan 22 05:52:35 you should have gotten ssh status switcher package, that will prompt you to setup root password and provides you easy access to turning on and off sshd Jan 22 05:52:46 SpeedEvil: i probably forgot Jan 22 05:53:01 ok thanks. Jan 22 05:53:11 hmm Jan 22 05:53:22 and if you're paranoid, use ssh keys Jan 22 05:53:30 I'd remove opensshd-client - then reinstall Jan 22 05:54:22 its quite easy to disable root login anyway Jan 22 05:54:38 removing and reinstalling Jan 22 05:55:09 im trying to setup meego. need to scp the image to it :) Jan 22 05:55:17 opensshd-client is to ssh out not to ssh in tho? Jan 22 05:55:28 removed all Jan 22 05:55:47 hm dropbear any good? Jan 22 05:56:41 I thought it was just simply called openssh-{client,server} Jan 22 05:57:00 yea i used openssh, but i saw another implementaion called dropbear Jan 22 05:57:25 but im used to openssh, so ill stick to that for now :) Jan 22 05:57:34 I've never tried dropbear, wouldn't know how to use it Jan 22 05:57:57 never tryed drop bear eather Jan 22 05:58:14 was wondering if it would hit the battery less Jan 22 05:58:46 naah Jan 22 05:58:56 yeah sounds unlikely Jan 22 05:58:57 as im prity sure i have a roaug deamon or two chewiting thro my battery i know i diabled meta crowler and never enabled modest Jan 22 05:59:05 the main battery use is keeping the radios awake Jan 22 05:59:21 sshd should only use cpu when someone actually connects to it Jan 22 05:59:21 transferring large files over sshd isn't ideal, nor are transferring any system files Jan 22 05:59:36 I found out how to get modest to use much less RAM. Jan 22 05:59:39 yeah ok transfers will eat cpu Jan 22 05:59:41 apt-get remove modest Jan 22 06:00:10 hehe good point i do npot even use it Jan 22 06:00:16 ewhy have it Jan 22 06:00:32 It uses ~10-20M of RAM IIRC if you don't use it Jan 22 06:00:44 o.0 Jan 22 06:01:40 Ruskie had a more extreme maemo customisation, cutting down any stuff he doesn't need including all the other locales Jan 22 06:01:57 might even free up more rootfs too Jan 22 06:03:18 o.0 Jan 22 06:03:26 The following packages will be REMOVED Jan 22 06:03:26 camera camera-test hildon-application-framework-rx34-rx44 Jan 22 06:03:26 libosso-email-interface microphone-test modest multimedia-applications Jan 22 06:03:26 osso-filemanager osso-filemanager-ui osso-global-search osso-imageviewer Jan 22 06:03:26 osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked Jan 22 06:03:30 i think not Jan 22 06:03:43 ok bug is back, now to see the mA Jan 22 06:03:54 Odd - I was able to remove modest earlie Jan 22 06:03:54 r Jan 22 06:04:13 dilblo Jan 22 06:04:18 you might be able to remove that single package by holding the other packages Jan 22 06:04:20 hm 50 mA, still better than the 200 above... Jan 22 06:05:00 holding? Jan 22 06:05:33 echo `` hold'' | dpkg --set-selections Jan 22 06:05:58 it prevents automatic updating and may prevent automatic dependency removal Jan 22 06:08:07 still, 50 mA compared to 15... :/ Jan 22 06:11:15 hm, im in. i saw i already had an extra account. seems useradd is not there though Jan 22 06:11:25 20 mA after reconnecting Jan 22 06:11:58 media, it is, its under /usr/sbin (meaning root user required) Jan 22 06:12:22 anyway, need to charge... Jan 22 06:12:23 bbl Jan 22 06:16:04 psycho_oreos: ah thanks! Jan 22 06:16:17 media, nw Jan 22 06:16:30 SpeedEvil, any experience with fanoush's bootmenu? Jan 22 06:18:06 no Jan 22 06:18:56 *nods* ta, probably fanoush's bootmenu has nothing to do with uboot Jan 22 06:20:02 and the bug is back yet again... :/ Jan 22 06:21:53 hm, for meego i need to dd the memory card, but copying the raw image to n900 first wont fit Jan 22 06:22:11 now even 70 mA... Jan 22 06:23:00 should i dd over ssh? Jan 22 06:25:44 I don't think dd over ssh would work Jan 22 06:26:32 actually i think it does but netcat would use less cpu Jan 22 06:26:47 you should get a media card writer/reader and dd the content across. There might be another way, that is to shove the image onto n900's /home/user/MyDocs partition Jan 22 06:27:04 anyway im off Jan 22 06:30:45 psycho_oreos: ok, ill try the last solution. i dont have a card reader Jan 22 06:31:24 media, how big is the image? Jan 22 06:32:08 1.9gb Jan 22 06:32:36 u Jan 22 06:32:48 i just need some way to ssh into the user account Jan 22 06:32:58 that should fit easily onto the large 29GB FAT32 partition Jan 22 06:33:00 setting a pw on user isnt evil? Jan 22 06:33:12 no Jan 22 06:35:20 great. its working Jan 22 07:53:58 a1 Jan 22 08:38:06 Hey guys, what device can I echo a value to to control the multicolor LED? Jan 22 08:38:58 It'smore complexthanthat Jan 22 08:39:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/LED_patterns Jan 22 08:40:19 So, hm... without MCE running, how would one do it? Jan 22 08:42:14 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED Jan 22 08:44:51 Alright, interesting. Jan 22 09:33:21 I am making some good progress reverse engineering connui-internet-status-menu-item Jan 22 09:35:49 :) Jan 22 09:36:54 It helps that we have example_reminder_status_applet to refer to and that connui-internet-status-menu-item happens to be written similarly to the example Jan 22 09:38:37 jonwil: may i ask what connui-internet-status-menu-item does? :) Jan 22 09:38:49 Its the status bar UI for WiFi Jan 22 09:38:51 or so I was told Jan 22 09:39:04 and someone wants to add signal strength reporting to it Jan 22 09:39:32 plus its something relatively simple to get started learning reverse engineering of ARM Jan 22 09:40:27 ^^ then i wish you happy RE'ing and lots of fun :) Jan 22 10:10:59 hey Jan 22 10:11:05 MohammadAG: ping Jan 22 10:37:55 Shapeshifter, ping Jan 22 10:52:11 Is there a source for replacement earbuds for the headset, other than the obvious? Jan 22 11:04:34 Venemo, happy Jan 22 11:04:44 belated birthday Jan 22 11:04:55 * MohammadAG stabs hildon for taking focus and pressing enter Jan 22 11:14:10 MohammadAG: pong **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 22 11:17:40 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 22 11:22:23 2011 Jan 22 11:22:30 Weird Jan 22 11:22:53 Unfortunately I'm not at my computer so I can't test :/ Jan 22 11:23:06 brb Jan 22 11:23:32 * MohammadAG tries setFixedHeight() Jan 22 11:24:45 "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." Jan 22 11:24:49 "The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." Jan 22 11:25:18 Ah! The terror! The suffering! Jan 22 11:27:41 Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Jan 22 11:29:14 * SpeedEvil does what Wilt does. Jan 22 11:29:21 Or something. Jan 22 11:34:50 the sciences, each straining.... Jan 22 11:34:56 * RST38h suggests a more mundane/terrifying scenario Jan 22 11:35:51 Science becomes a routine, making no progress. The economy becomes a routine, slowly making itself insolvent. The society degrades. Jan 22 11:36:18 MohammadAG, Are you working on portrait mode support? Jan 22 11:36:46 dotblank: I'm guessing for mohammedia player Jan 22 11:36:58 mohammedia player :p Jan 22 11:37:19 alterego, system-wide's fine by me Jan 22 11:37:24 :P Jan 22 11:37:30 RST38h: you seem to understand this better than almost everyone Jan 22 11:37:41 Humans do not go into space, as it is not economically feasible. The computer science stalls at algorithms for lots of sequential turing machines. The medical science stalls due to "ethical concerns" Jan 22 11:37:43 I should make my groove program a library much like w00t_ is doing Jan 22 11:37:52 that you can import grooveshark into your player Jan 22 11:37:57 that way* Jan 22 11:37:59 * SpeedEvil hits RST38h over the head with a falcon-9. Jan 22 11:38:14 yay Jan 22 11:38:26 i trhink the medical science runs into the sheer complexity problem - the brain cannot absorb enough to make the deeper correlations Jan 22 11:38:29 what are you using for audio playback? Jan 22 11:38:58 So, the western society simply winds down, become replaced by more energeticand less fussy Asians Jan 22 11:39:20 pupnik: that is too complicated and based on assumptions Jan 22 11:39:39 pupnik: there are really much easier and no less depressing end-of-the-world scenarios =) Jan 22 11:39:54 Going into space I think will become very viable when we have a need for helium 3 Jan 22 11:40:07 we will not have a need for helium 3. Jan 22 11:40:23 or was it hydrogen.. Jan 22 11:40:25 Gauging the channel's interest - how many would be interested in a karaoke application that displayed the lyrics to the song and done on-the-fly pitch correction, maybe some other audio effects? (like, Glee Karaoke if you have an iPhone/iPod Touch) Jan 22 11:40:30 tritium to be exact Jan 22 11:40:31 dotblank, mafw Jan 22 11:40:43 Except not gay Jan 22 11:40:45 There's a lot of balls about the N9 lately. Jan 22 11:41:03 Termana: I'm not sure it's possible to have non-gay karaoke. Jan 22 11:41:07 Termana: nah. Jan 22 11:41:10 alterego, balls? I think you mean rumours don't you? Jan 22 11:41:31 He means crystal balls. Don't you have a set? Jan 22 11:42:16 I don't believe Nokia are going to move away from OMAP Jan 22 11:42:18 Why have I not heard of mafw before? Jan 22 11:42:21 odd Jan 22 11:43:02 Nokia has a good relationship with TI, I can't see them wanting anything from somehwere else they can already get through their normal TI relations Jan 22 11:43:16 RST38h, Ah, mines a bit dusty, but I think it's telling me you're about to experience some coffee enema Jan 22 11:43:22 Nokia has used non-TI chips in its Symbian^3 phones Jan 22 11:43:26 dotblank: mafw is maemos' multimedia framework Jan 22 11:43:53 Gauging the channel's interest - how many would be interested in a karaoke application that displayed the lyrics to the song and done on-the-fly pitch correction, maybe some other audio effects? (like, Glee Karaoke if you have an iPhone/iPod Touch) Jan 22 11:43:53 dotblank: it's basically a dbus api for handling media, playlists and audio routing via gstreamer. Jan 22 11:44:03 only if you get a videos.maemo.org Jan 22 11:44:11 so users can upload their work Jan 22 11:44:16 alterego, you can't get x86 chips from TI, if they intended to use x86 Jan 22 11:44:37 Termana: sure, but that's not this new rumour Jan 22 11:44:51 And Nokia have shown no interest in atom Jan 22 11:45:08 MohammadAG, upload their work? Who said I was going to let people create their own songs and screw up my app with bad music tastes? Jan 22 11:45:14 yeah, they only used it once - in a netbook Jan 22 11:45:24 alterego:Nokia has built an Atom-basednetbook before Jan 22 11:45:29 Surely everyone wants to sing along to my collection of Justin Bieber? Jan 22 11:45:34 :P (kidding) Jan 22 11:45:42 Termana, would be entertaining to watch users sing their library Jan 22 11:45:42 alterego: And they invested into Meego which is a primarily x86 based Linux distro Jan 22 11:45:52 90% will go to the bin of course Jan 22 11:46:15 RST38h: not for handset it's not Jan 22 11:46:16 MohammadAG, songs would have to be pre-made. You have to have the lyrics and pitch correction in time with the music. Jan 22 11:46:40 N900 and arm development is where it's at as far as MeeGo handset development. Jan 22 11:47:01 Termana, pitch correction? pfft, if your voice sucks don't sing :P Jan 22 11:47:11 Surely everyone wants to sing along to my collection of Justin Bieber? Jan 22 11:47:15 KICK HIM! Jan 22 11:47:37 * SpeedEvil starts playing Tatu. Jan 22 11:48:00 alterego:the "handset"is basically a UI on top of the base OS Jan 22 11:48:15 alterego: So, yes, handset too (see the Aava reference platform) Jan 22 11:48:57 the aava isn't exactly the best way to measure meego's progress :p Jan 22 11:49:54 http://www.sat24.com/homepage.aspx?culture=de current cloud patterns over europe Jan 22 11:52:44 isn't the aava incredibly l33t Jan 22 11:52:45 ? Jan 22 11:53:18 so your wallet thinks Jan 22 11:53:38 a weather 'widget' with satellite+radar for your current location would be useful + cool Jan 22 11:54:17 I thought there was one, but not a widget Jan 22 11:54:49 alterego, ta, setFixedHeight() worked Jan 22 11:55:06 RST38h: I was merely saying that most development is on the arm side as far as handset is concerned. Jan 22 11:55:09 what would be a bit cool tbh, is a homescreen widget that allows you to launch Qt apps inside it Jan 22 11:55:21 that way, all Qt apps are widget-ified Jan 22 11:55:29 of course, not all of them will look great Jan 22 11:55:40 RST38h: we can guess as to why that is, but it is the most important configuration for Nokia imo Jan 22 11:56:24 * MohammadAG hmms http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68760 Jan 22 12:00:14 MohammadAG: exactly, Jan 22 12:00:41 Nokia aren't going to use SE chips for a Cortex A9 Jan 22 12:00:52 They'll use the OMAP4 from TI .. Jan 22 12:03:21 I thought the N9 was an OMAP3 anyway Jan 22 12:03:30 I'm still betting N9 is omap3 :) Jan 22 12:04:20 ShadowJK: yes, unless it's been scrapped Jan 22 12:04:40 it's a bit late to announce an OMAP3 device tbh Jan 22 12:04:45 It was mentioned that it was an OMAP3 Jan 22 12:04:57 Not for Nokia :P Jan 22 12:04:58 The speculation about using the new and yet full of bugs omap4 are kinda funny but.. Jan 22 12:05:20 full of bugs? Jan 22 12:05:24 What bugs? Jan 22 12:07:32 heck omap3 had been used alot before N900 and we still had the rebooting bug :P Jan 22 12:07:55 and still don't have dvfs or pm in mainline linux afaik.. Jan 22 12:10:27 Possibly, but it's all being pushed there through MeeGo so .. Jan 22 12:15:25 this is one of the better places to talk about mee(TM)go ;) Jan 22 12:16:46 i'm pretty happy with omap3640 atm - very thrifty power consumption Jan 22 12:17:20 hello world Jan 22 12:19:35 pupnik: me aswell, I see my N900 having quite a bit of life left in it. Jan 22 12:19:56 * SpeedEvil passes alterego the ant-killer. Jan 22 12:20:14 I've already done more with the N900 than any of the previous NITs Jan 22 12:21:08 and no sign of slowing down, speeding up if anything, with MeeGo work. Jan 22 12:22:39 it's not impossible to imagine a use for dual-core phones though, esp for a high-end device Jan 22 12:23:25 i would bet whatever was slated for n9 is the 40nm OMAP 3640 @ 1GHZ Jan 22 12:25:35 it's not like they have a magic skunkworks department generating systems-on-a-chip ahead of TI and the rest of the planet Jan 22 12:25:44 Well, that's what they originally stated Jan 22 12:25:58 i never saw any statements Jan 22 12:26:05 I'm sure we'll see dual core omap4s this yeah too. Jan 22 12:26:19 ..year Jan 22 12:26:22 mhm Jan 22 12:26:37 Kinda sad... I mean, if that's all it's got it's not like it's worth getting.. Jan 22 12:26:57 I can get 1.15ghz out of my n900, if I really try.. Jan 22 12:27:03 Is there a creditable link to what hw of n9 is likely to be. Jan 22 12:27:09 n9 is intended to run harmattan? Jan 22 12:27:29 SpeedEvil, yes Jan 22 12:27:32 RobbieThe1st: why isn't it worth getting? Jan 22 12:27:43 CPU power isn't everything ... Jan 22 12:27:46 they like to call it MeeGo/Harmattan Jan 22 12:27:46 for e.g. look how few people learned to do anything with the DSP Jan 22 12:27:51 Spending more money, for the same or less performance? Jan 22 12:28:06 a second cortex core means no-brainer multi-threading Jan 22 12:28:45 It's multi-tasking that's the big deal; not having it stutter when a flash file takes up half of one core Jan 22 12:29:32 riiight Jan 22 12:29:58 IO is my main gripe with the N900 tbh Jan 22 12:30:16 It's more than powerful enough for me. Jan 22 12:30:19 That -is- true; having more ram would help Jan 22 12:30:57 RobbieThe1st, any progress on backupmenu being made available for uboot? :) Jan 22 12:31:28 I don't know how it would be done, sorry. I -think- you can just use the bootmenu-n900 version along with uboot Jan 22 12:31:55 And when you boot into Maemo/internal flash from uboot with the KB open... it'll run Jan 22 12:32:11 alterego: yeah, practically nothing that most people do has been CPU-bound for years... Jan 22 12:32:39 CPUs are for servers, gaming and video encoding. fast IO (which is harder to get) is for boring things like starting programs Jan 22 12:34:09 That's sort of my point too - With a nice dual-core 1ghz processor, heavy emulation and nice gaming would be possible. It's not -quite- good enough now. Jan 22 12:34:18 RobbieThe1st, hmm ok, well I'm thinking of installing just backupmenu for now from extras-devel and without uboot.. after making appropriate backups I will go experimenting Jan 22 12:34:26 Fair enough Jan 22 12:42:18 RobbieThe1st: emulation is about using the hardware efficiently also - see the work done for pandora - pretty much all doable systems are being done Jan 22 12:44:52 I personally prefer to code than play games Jan 22 12:44:59 Perhaps so. But if there's one thing I've learned about computer systems: If an interface is designed to run at X speed, you need X+2/3 to make it run nicely. For example, at 600mhz the N900 feels sluggish. at 1ghz, it feels nice. Jan 22 12:45:22 i'd say the same for froyo btw Jan 22 12:45:27 I have this feeling that Meego will be developed for a 1ghz processor. As such, in order to make it -really- responsive, we need far more. Jan 22 12:46:05 i had a responsive gui on a 25mhz NeXT Jan 22 12:47:06 Yea. Jan 22 12:47:58 one way to do it is make your OS prioritize any gui movement properly Jan 22 12:48:24 windows 3.1 did it by giving the mouse a hardware interrupt Jan 22 12:48:26 That's true; Maemo is surprisingly good at that(at least for me) Jan 22 12:48:35 MeeGo handset is being developed on the N900 and when it's configured well, it's a nice smooth experience, as far as transitions and ui components. Jan 22 12:48:49 Better than Maemo for Qt suff Jan 22 12:49:11 Unfortunately app start times are awful at the moment :) Jan 22 12:49:26 Just FYI - I was running Ubuntu on a 1ghz PentiumM with 1GB of ram; it's -far- less responsive than Maemo is. Jan 22 12:49:56 But, scrolling a listview looks amazing under meego where as all the tear in maemo makes it look jerky Jan 22 12:49:59 (and Mer is -far- worse than that, for some odd reason[no GPU support?]) Jan 22 12:50:19 Probably yeah Jan 22 12:50:33 hello brothers Jan 22 12:50:37 MeeGo has newer sgx drivers so that certainly helps Jan 22 12:50:46 Out of curiosity - Have you tried editing "/etc/powervr.d/hildon-desktop.ini" and changing the value to 1? Jan 22 12:51:20 It makes things feel more "consistant"(far less tearing), but a tad bit more sluggish for me. Jan 22 12:51:40 I have not, Jan 22 12:52:01 I might just turn transitions off completely tbh :P Jan 22 12:52:38 Out of curiosity, would you mind trying it(I assume you've got your n900 handy)? I'd love to see if it happens to more than just me. Jan 22 13:31:44 how can i take screenshot in portrait mode? Jan 22 13:31:50 with scrot and timeout? Jan 22 13:33:27 hi ;) Jan 22 13:34:05 hey Jan 22 13:34:31 maybe if you're using matan's 9-desktop hack you might be able to with Ctrl+Shift+P Jan 22 13:34:32 i see the people are saving shabbas here =) Jan 22 13:34:44 shabbas? Jan 22 13:34:55 psycho_oreos how can i as i open keyboard and get landscape Jan 22 13:34:57 no work! except to pick up poodles Jan 22 13:35:02 wait i can slide half keyboard Jan 22 13:35:03 wait Jan 22 13:35:34 hmm there's an app you can get to set screenshot in a certain time frame Jan 22 13:35:55 why would rotation break a screenshot i wonder Jan 22 13:36:53 the other would be a very ugly hack and that is using x11vnc, connecting to it and then screenshot from the client side of x11vnc Jan 22 13:43:20 Hi, on my N900 (PR1.3) when I press "update" in the package manager there's no update, but if I do "apt-get update;apt-get upgrade" there is this libillumination0 to be updated Jan 22 13:43:26 Is it safe to update? Jan 22 13:45:09 depends on which repo that deb file is coming from Jan 22 13:45:38 psycho_oreos: how can I tell? Can apt-get be more verbose? Jan 22 13:46:16 As I understand it, apt-get upgrade canbreak your system Jan 22 13:46:21 Or is that dist-upgrade Jan 22 13:46:23 I forget Jan 22 13:46:27 Tried -V option Jan 22 13:46:30 Got 0.1.20100215-1 => 0.1.20100702-1 Jan 22 13:46:46 dist-upgrade can break your system Jan 22 13:47:02 Is upgrade safe though? Jan 22 13:47:17 pupnik cause you can't press buttons =) Jan 22 13:47:25 damn it mistery Jan 22 13:47:30 i did make screensht Jan 22 13:47:35 but can't find it on device Jan 22 13:47:38 it's in photos Jan 22 13:47:54 but where on device? it shows that it;s in screenshot dir Jan 22 13:47:54 messerting, you can append -s for simulate, it may then show where it retrieves the file Jan 22 13:47:58 but i don't see it Jan 22 13:48:10 psycho_oreos: ok thx Jan 22 13:56:18 Is upgrade safe though? | yes Jan 22 14:05:06 Ok, apt-get -V -s upgrade gives: Inst libillumination0 [0.1.20100215-1] (0.1.20100702-1 Extras:2.0/fremantle-1.3 Jan 22 14:27:01 i bought vodafone sim to play with that cbsms Jan 22 14:27:19 i was expecting that they will require my name or sometihng Jan 22 14:27:22 and they did Jan 22 14:27:42 Oh. Jan 22 14:27:51 People of the UK! Jan 22 14:27:52 but when i told them that i'm john smith they had no problems with it Jan 22 14:28:14 Well - cheap people of the UK. Jan 22 14:28:45 how reliable are their service over there anyway? Jan 22 14:28:47 t-mobile is offering a free 'blackberry' SIM, with 500M/mo of data on it, activated when you top up 10 quid Jan 22 14:29:12 for 6 months Jan 22 14:29:17 psycho_oreos: dunno i just bought it to test cbsms Jan 22 14:29:25 as they are only uk network that is sending it Jan 22 14:29:44 jacekowski, fair enough :) let me know if its shit because vodaphone is getting its arse raped down here ;) Jan 22 14:29:57 http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/free-blackberry-sim-cards/ Jan 22 14:30:02 where? Jan 22 14:30:22 Australia, they're getting sued by many people for poor quality Jan 22 14:30:34 poor quality, poor service Jan 22 14:30:38 what do you mean by quality? Jan 22 14:30:57 call dropouts, lack of connection when moving from a few metres, etc Jan 22 14:31:14 as in crap signal Jan 22 14:31:18 that's normal thing here Jan 22 14:31:49 and they had the customer's details database left open here too Jan 22 14:33:57 I wonder if matan released updated hildon-home Jan 22 14:34:48 Jan 22 14:34:31 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[802]: ISI_SMS .465545> resp_cell_broadcast_subscription(): Incoming cell broadcast receive status:0 OK Jan 22 14:34:55 Jan 22 14:34:35 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[802]: ISI_SMS .702941> incoming_cell_broadcast(): Incoming cell broadcast Jan 22 14:35:08 Jan 22 14:34:31 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[802]: com.nokia.phone.net: get_network_time_info returned: y:100 m:100 d:100 h:100 m:100 s:100 tz:100 dl:100 Jan 22 14:35:19 time is still useless on vodafone Jan 22 14:35:32 Jan 22 14:35:26 Nokia-N900 cellular: csd[802]: ISI_SMS .548705> incoming_cell_broadcast(): Incoming cell broadcast Jan 22 14:36:12 but cell broadcast is happening Jan 22 14:42:33 what was matan's other repo? not the my.arava.co.il one Jan 22 14:46:30 hmm Jan 22 14:46:35 anybody familiar with dbus? Jan 22 14:47:24 i see function processing that cell broadcast calling dbus_message_new_signal( "/com/nokia/phone/SMS", "Phone.SMS", "IncomingCBS"); Jan 22 14:47:28 something like that Jan 22 14:53:11 * SpeedEvil sighs. Jan 22 15:12:35 getting somewhere with the internet status menu item thing, right now I need to understand the mysteries of gconf Jan 22 15:14:05 Remind me never to take a paid job involving development using glib, gtk, gconf or related libraries, no way could I work with this stuff in a paid environment :) Jan 22 15:23:28 Why do you need to know the "mysteries" of gconf? Jan 22 15:23:37 And what don't you get? :P Jan 22 15:24:19 QSettings/ini > gconf Jan 22 15:24:37 QSettings doesn't have events Jan 22 15:24:44 reverse engineering gconf is a pain Jan 22 15:25:02 specifically finding out where different gconf entries come from... Jan 22 15:25:06 Why are you reverse engineering open source software? Jan 22 15:26:17 QSettings doesn't have events Jan 22 15:26:27 the signal when a value's changed? Jan 22 15:26:34 yes Jan 22 15:26:35 it's kinda neat, but meh Jan 22 15:26:42 I am not reverse engineering gconf Jan 22 15:26:51 I am reverse engineering something closed that talks to gconf Jan 22 15:26:55 gconf's open, why r.e? Jan 22 15:27:01 i know Jan 22 15:27:13 oh Jan 22 15:27:19 jonwil: right, well don't say you're reversing gconf then :P Jan 22 15:27:20 i see alterego already mentioned that :P Jan 22 15:27:24 heh :P Jan 22 15:27:53 just string the binary Jan 22 15:28:02 you'll get all gconf paths as plaintext Jan 22 15:29:06 Yeah, that'd work Jan 22 15:29:15 Or, monitor gconf .. Jan 22 15:32:09 no need Jan 22 15:33:20 OT:is there any way to get to a particular month in gmail.com Jan 22 15:33:50 jonwil, /system/osso/connectivity/network_type Jan 22 15:33:59 is the only one in the status menu applet Jan 22 15:34:01 i want to find emails in March 2008. and i have to wade through all the emails clicking on "Older" Jan 22 15:34:31 trumee advanced search works afaik Jan 22 15:34:53 lcukn900: thanks Jan 22 15:35:37 lcukn900: nice one. saved me lot of time :) Jan 22 15:36:01 i hear that a lot. Jan 22 15:37:01 bah Jan 22 15:37:09 i think my usb could be on the way out. Jan 22 15:37:48 am i right in thinking that if it appears to be o.k. (you get an orange flashing light when charging and the usb icon etc) but it seems to not be charging properly, the connection could be working loose? Jan 22 15:38:43 hi Jan 22 15:38:54 could be Jan 22 15:38:59 bah Jan 22 15:39:22 what does "seems to not be charging properly" mean? Jan 22 15:39:34 well it just took forever Jan 22 15:40:07 How to configure the repo needed for http://maemo.org/packages/view/libicd-network-dummy/? Jan 22 15:40:12 How to configure the repo needed for http://maemo.org/packages/view/libicd-network-dummy/ ? Jan 22 15:40:23 i kept switching between the computer usb charger and the wall charger and it seems to be charged now Jan 22 15:40:27 So, I can see the name, but what are the URLs? Jan 22 15:40:50 im thinking that the connections not clean but at some point it connected well enough to charge. Jan 22 15:40:57 could be the dc adapter too Jan 22 15:41:18 There should only be a single yellow flash before the glowing starts Jan 22 15:41:19 its strange Jan 22 15:41:21 why are you using libicd-network-dummy when there's libicd-network-null? Jan 22 15:41:36 because it was running while connected to the computer Jan 22 15:41:44 and left overnight to charge Jan 22 15:41:59 but as soon as i unplugged it, it signalled the battery was empty Jan 22 15:42:11 so its like it has enough power to run, but not charge the battery Jan 22 15:42:14 could be bme being retarded Jan 22 15:42:25 now, i know that sometimes when the battery is too low you must charge from the wall Jan 22 15:42:26 happened to me last week Jan 22 15:42:31 so id put it down to that. Jan 22 15:42:42 popped out battery and put it back in, 80 percent battery Jan 22 15:42:53 yeah i had that once before Jan 22 15:43:03 it wouldnt charge i popped battery - all good. Jan 22 15:43:08 but this morning that didnt seem to work. Jan 22 15:43:11 :| Jan 22 15:43:16 psycho_oreos: Cause that's in -devel and -dummy is in a stable, more trusted repo. Either way -- where to find the URLs for the repo? In case I want something else of it? Jan 22 15:43:37 however, as i say probably by blind luck it seems fully charged now. Jan 22 15:43:57 i might try and invest in a standalone battery charger and avoid using usb altogether. Jan 22 15:44:00 :| Jan 22 15:44:15 bloody paranoid about that connection from all ive been reading. Jan 22 15:45:44 buntfalke, its in nokia-binaries Jan 22 15:45:46 Hi ! I'm looking for a way to flash my N900 from anything else than windows. Any hint ? Jan 22 15:45:56 psycho_oreos: which is located where? Jan 22 15:45:58 Hi Jan 22 15:46:11 chiwawa_42: i think you can flash it from any os that supports tftp Jan 22 15:46:12 is there any chances of running Java games ? Jan 22 15:46:17 using MicroEmulator ? Jan 22 15:46:25 more like .jar files Jan 22 15:46:39 there is some key sequence that sets it up as a tftp client when you power it on iirc Jan 22 15:47:14 HRH_H_Crab: great ! thanks for the hint, i'll look for a howto Jan 22 15:47:36 about the OS image, is PR1.3 the latest avaible ? Jan 22 15:47:39 ~flashing Jan 22 15:47:40 it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 22 15:47:43 yes Jan 22 15:47:48 buntfalke, http://repository.maemo.org Jan 22 15:49:05 uh. *facepalm* Jan 22 15:49:06 thanks psycho_oreos :-D Jan 22 15:50:50 buntfalke, btw you need a token (once accepted to nokia's eula) for the use of nokia-binaries in scratchbox.. its under http://repository.maemo.org/dists/maemo5.0/nokia-binaries//nokia-binaries/libi/ Jan 22 15:51:12 s/dists/pool/ Jan 22 15:51:12 psycho_oreos meant: buntfalke, btw you need a token (once accepted to nokia's eula) for the use of nokia-binaries in scratchbox.. its under http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/nokia-binaries//nokia-binaries/libi/ Jan 22 15:51:32 hey guys Jan 22 15:52:45 Happy birthday Venemo Jan 22 15:53:15 thanks alterego :) Jan 22 15:53:21 alterego: how did you know? :P Jan 22 15:57:16 psycho_oreos: thanks. what would the advantage of -null be? Jan 22 15:57:21 except for "it's free"? Jan 22 15:58:19 buntfalke, it seems to be recommended as `better' when you are following the guides for setting up USB networking Jan 22 15:59:15 * buntfalke read that, too Jan 22 15:59:20 still dunno why though :/ Jan 22 16:00:08 you can't read the source of dummy, so how can you really trust it? plus you can't compare the two when there's no sources for dummy Jan 22 16:00:21 I think the answer sort of becomes evident Jan 22 16:01:03 hm, anyone know anything about usb gadget mode? I'm trying to get my n900 to pretend to be a hid device. I have the gadgetfs module loaded, but everything trying to use it just segfaults Jan 22 16:01:14 its much like using a proprietary driver which uses `black magic' to make it work versus an open sourced driver which hides nothing and can be made verbose to give you more control Jan 22 16:03:32 psycho_oreos: oh...the -dummy is not just non-free in the debian sense, it's even closed? I see. Jan 22 16:03:35 thanks Jan 22 16:03:44 Can you run a GDB remote on the N900 device (so you can talk to it from a desktop GDB install)? Jan 22 16:04:18 buntfalke, afaik from google searches libicd-network-dummy is available in nokia-binaries.. and nokia-binaries obviously means no source codes Jan 22 16:04:37 jonwil: gdb has a remote protocol which you can push over virutally anything afaik. serial, tcp, ... Jan 22 16:04:50 jonwil: you can Jan 22 16:05:01 ok, what do I install and run on my N900 then? Jan 22 16:05:07 apt-get install gdb Jan 22 16:05:13 jonwil: gdb :-) Jan 22 16:05:20 it's all in manual Jan 22 16:05:20 jonwil: it's nothing n900 special Jan 22 16:06:57 something makes my phone incredibly slow after 2 days uptime.. could be crochik mycontacts.. Jan 22 16:07:54 nope Jan 22 16:07:57 it's known problem Jan 22 16:08:01 use swappolube Jan 22 16:13:47 2 days? no. Jan 22 16:14:12 and donot use swappolube, it is90% snakeoil Jan 22 16:16:30 isn't swappolube moving swap around? Jan 22 16:16:36 no Jan 22 16:16:47 ok Jan 22 16:18:05 psycho_oreos: everybody has same token Jan 22 16:21:46 jacekowski: haha, that's funny :-) i like that idea. (same token) Jan 22 16:22:29 hi Jan 22 16:23:16 do we have a GUI'd editor for the hardware keyboard on the N900 yet? Jan 22 16:24:03 TiagoTiago: i thought i saw one in extras? might misremember... Jan 22 16:27:14 damn flashing procedure, I think I messed it up. N900 rebooted after the eMMC althoght i didn't ask for it (no -R). Now, sticking the USB cable while holding the U key does nothing. Any way to recover that ? Jan 22 16:29:26 correction, it's back on the bcklit-less "nokia" screen with the USB logo, but flasher is still waiting for device Jan 22 16:30:52 there is one for the symbols virtual keyboard and one for the regular virtual keyboards (which actually is mostly a text editor with error checking and a few other specialized functions), but not for the hardware keyboard itself Jan 22 16:37:42 chiwawa_42: strange Jan 22 16:37:45 chiwawa_42: power it off Jan 22 16:37:50 chiwawa_42: as in, remove battery Jan 22 16:37:53 chiwawa_42: and wait Jan 22 16:37:58 i remember a while ago someone here said there was one in the works, dunno if it still is Jan 22 16:37:59 chiwawa_42: and try doing it again Jan 22 16:38:11 jacekowski: yeah, just did that, i'm installing the flasher on a linux box instead of a mac now Jan 22 16:38:18 ekhm Jan 22 16:38:22 you expect it to work on mac Jan 22 16:38:29 expectED Jan 22 16:38:35 mac has so fubar usb stack that it makes me want to cry Jan 22 16:38:53 well, thought the built a flasher for it, so it *should* have worked Jan 22 16:39:04 but you're right, that was foolish of me Jan 22 16:39:58 * kerio flashed perfectly fine on os x Jan 22 16:43:16 ok, starting over under linux, first step is looking good Jan 22 16:44:01 chiwawa_42: apologies for putting you on the wrong path with my tftp nonsense and thanks to MohammadAG for putting you right! Jan 22 16:44:04 FUCK, second command rebooted the n900 before flashing it... Jan 22 16:44:42 chiwawa_42: from what i hear it should be pretty tricky to kill it, so just relax and keep going Jan 22 16:45:42 trying again... Jan 22 16:47:18 HRH_H_Crab: no problem, I corrected it when realizing tftp would first require an ethernet port and IP stack, so I looked for "command line flashing n900" and got that right Jan 22 16:49:50 great, it's back alive and up to date; It just scarred the shit out of me Jan 22 16:49:53 Minorly hilarious list: https://www.mozilla.com/en-US/blocklist/ Jan 22 17:13:36 javispedro: thanks for the radio! it is the first maemo radio that works for me Jan 22 17:15:47 what's it called again? Jan 22 17:16:04 cfmradio Jan 22 17:16:20 RST38h: recently updated to fix a bug where it scrolled madly on the presets list Jan 22 17:16:34 unfortunately the fix involved going deeper into the gtk+ madhouse so... Jan 22 17:17:08 why do gtk apps start up faster than Qt ones? Jan 22 17:17:30 because the libs are constantly keep in memory by the system Jan 22 17:17:34 *kept Jan 22 17:17:59 hmm Jan 22 17:18:06 when it says Bluetooth turned on Jan 22 17:18:13 shouldn't it actually turn on? Jan 22 17:18:18 oh, worked second try Jan 22 17:18:37 oh nice Jan 22 17:18:40 no headset requirement Jan 22 17:18:53 yay Jan 22 17:19:04 no kinetic scrolling Jan 22 17:19:04 this is awesome Jan 22 17:21:27 it has autoscan, and will name presets by the rds data when you first tune into them Jan 22 17:21:45 why does it have more than 107 labeled? Jan 22 17:22:03 I thought the hardware supported upto 107.9 Jan 22 17:22:24 that's a not a client app problem, but a kernel driver problem. I just read whatever the kernel says for min/max. Jan 22 17:27:09 on my region at least v4l says 87.5 -> 108.0 Jan 22 17:28:40 how does fmradio-wide gets all frequencies? Jan 22 17:28:46 * MohammadAG ponders a modded kernel driver that exposes all ranges Jan 22 17:29:47 they probably either do that or change the region on the fly Jan 22 17:29:48 broadcom radio chip right? Jan 22 17:30:05 yep Jan 22 17:30:17 v4l-ctl can select *all* the supported frequencies Jan 22 17:30:32 but even on region "Other" (which should support everything) the UI still doesn't show 108 Jan 22 17:30:36 it reaches 107.9 Jan 22 17:30:56 or Japan wide band Jan 22 17:31:03 which UI? Jan 22 17:31:12 with mine on stock europe I can tune to 108.0 just fine Jan 22 17:31:16 .bottom_frequency = 76000, Jan 22 17:31:16 .top_frequency = 108000, Jan 22 17:31:17 the "FM transmitter" dialog Jan 22 17:31:23 aaaaah. Jan 22 17:31:23 maybe it is just writing to the PLL registers? Jan 22 17:31:35 dotblank: if you want to use (or contribute) to libgroove in some way, you're welcome Jan 22 17:31:51 I don't have much plans to expand it, so Jan 22 17:32:28 kerio: I at least was talking about fmrx :) Jan 22 17:32:35 ooh Jan 22 17:32:36 i see Jan 22 17:32:42 who the hell uses that Jan 22 17:33:26 w00t_, alright.. its probably a bit outdated since the recent api changes Jan 22 17:33:34 but I havn't checked yet Jan 22 17:33:50 dotblank: it works, at least, I have no idea if it's in good condition though :) Jan 22 17:33:57 (I spent last night fixing it) Jan 22 17:35:12 Yea I really think libgroove is the way to go Jan 22 17:35:28 then you could implement a file handler too like groove://songid Jan 22 18:12:33 who has experience with PreENV? Jan 22 18:12:39 http://www.precentral.net/x-plane-9 X-plane 9 for Palm Pre (prenv? N900 also?) Jan 22 18:13:10 yes. Jan 22 18:15:47 I love that one, btw. Jan 22 18:16:06 * RST38h is going togive HAWX another try Jan 22 18:17:08 javispedro: btw, is having a few old-style radio backgrounds completely out of the question? Jan 22 18:17:47 RST38h, open source, fix it :p Jan 22 18:18:32 the widget is rendered by cairo vector stuff, not by blitting pixmaps, so it might be hard Jan 22 18:18:34 Mohammad: currently having toruble fixing some non-open-source things... Jan 22 18:18:42 unless all you want is the background Jan 22 18:18:50 javispedro: All I want is the background Jan 22 18:18:58 javispedro: no fancy stuff Jan 22 18:19:37 And I think wazd had the right background somewhere Jan 22 18:19:57 well, I guess that should be easy enough, but I won't put it in the main builds (I personally prefer the current UI so far) Jan 22 18:20:28 why not make it optional? Jan 22 18:20:36 it does not change the UI after all Jan 22 18:21:03 it depends on how gtk+ does it, I'm pondering if I will need to learn about how to make transparent cairo surfaces Jan 22 18:22:23 gtk has something like set_bg_bitmap Jan 22 18:22:30 for a widget Jan 22 18:24:03 RST38h, what non-open-source things are you having trouble with? Jan 22 18:24:33 jonwil: various things. Jan 22 18:24:50 jonwil: so, how's your rewriting maemo thing going? :) Jan 22 18:25:11 heh, I am not rewriting maemo, just cloning a few usefull bits that might help people out :) Jan 22 18:25:38 good Jan 22 18:25:39 still knee deep inside libconnui and connui-internet-status-menu-item Jan 22 18:26:15 if libconnui-dev pacakge existed I would be much further along :P Jan 22 18:30:48 how to keep the screen from turning off after some time when /not/ connected to the charger? Jan 22 18:31:13 buntfalke: settings > display iirc Jan 22 18:31:18 javispedro, wanna hop on board? :P Jan 22 18:31:29 hey chaps, how's things? Jan 22 18:31:29 * MohammadAG continues rewriting stock control panel applets Jan 22 18:31:39 lardman: gnarly! Jan 22 18:31:46 :) Jan 22 18:31:50 buntfalke, simple-brightness-applet, hold the icon in the status menu Jan 22 18:32:12 * lardman|home has just done oil change and brakes on his car, been a long day's worth Jan 22 18:32:22 RST38h, groovy Jan 22 18:32:22 MohammadAG: thanks Jan 22 18:32:30 lardman|home: that doesnt offer this Jan 22 18:32:39 lardman|home: only "keep illuminated when charging" Jan 22 18:33:06 buntfalke: gives you a timeout when not charging doesn't it? Also see MohammadAG's post above Jan 22 18:34:24 lardman|home: ack Jan 22 18:39:43 After I get somewhere with this applet (or if I decide to stop and move onto something else Jan 22 18:39:49 then I will have a go at battery appley Jan 22 18:39:51 applet Jan 22 18:40:01 that is status-area-applet-battery Jan 22 18:40:08 which should be fairly simple Jan 22 19:05:17 Hi Jan 22 19:08:32 buntfalke: simple brightness applet Jan 22 19:09:16 oh Jan 22 19:09:20 nm Jan 22 19:17:17 nightmare, n900 has now been in for repair for ~10 days! using an aged nokia 5800 Jan 22 19:18:00 piggz: I agree, it is a nightmare Jan 22 19:18:35 altho, nokia maps works! ;) .... closely follwoing the ovi maps thread Jan 22 19:19:03 hehe Jan 22 19:19:26 does anyone have any experience with lvm? Jan 22 19:21:09 i do Jan 22 19:30:27 Venemo, any plans of bumping sticky notes to extras? Jan 22 19:30:57 trumee: yes Jan 22 19:31:03 trumee: it didn't happen yet though Jan 22 19:31:17 trumee: do you think the current release is stable enough? Jan 22 19:32:00 Venemo, i am using yellow notes now after a recent reflash. it was working well before Jan 22 19:32:22 Venemo, have stopped using things from -devel atm. Jan 22 19:32:43 trumee: ah, understandable Jan 22 19:32:51 trumee: you can dl the .deb from the package interface Jan 22 19:33:07 * trumee has crazy logic that apps from devel screw up Sip on the device Jan 22 19:33:50 Venemo, nobody had compaints about it on tmo Jan 22 19:34:02 Venemo, after your last update Jan 22 19:34:31 trumee: okay, you convinced me :) Jan 22 19:34:53 jacekowski: the situation is already solved, but thanks :) Jan 22 20:25:47 alterego, http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/rotatedlabel/blobs/master/qrotatedlabel.cpp :P Jan 22 20:57:38 ~botsnack Jan 22 20:57:38 DocScrutinizer51: thanks Jan 22 21:50:42 hello Jan 22 21:55:50 hi Jan 22 21:56:26 aa he quit already :S Jan 22 21:58:49 spend whole day to figuring how to get current artist and title from maemo mediaplayer :S Jan 22 21:59:19 via dbus I mean Jan 22 21:59:22 metadata-changed Jan 22 21:59:41 oh Jan 22 21:59:42 get Jan 22 21:59:51 MohammadAG I got working Jan 22 22:00:02 but spend the damm whole day for it :S Jan 22 22:00:10 ArGGu^^, i'm trying to get metadata with the lib Jan 22 22:00:45 MohammadAG I used the lib before. but I wanted to make my app pure Qt Jan 22 22:00:57 still need to change the notification via dbus Jan 22 22:01:28 pure Qt and MAFW don't work :P Jan 22 22:01:30 what's your app? Jan 22 22:01:42 IrGGu irc client Jan 22 22:01:52 I have not put the code anywhere yet Jan 22 22:02:11 oh right Jan 22 22:02:14 forgot that :p Jan 22 22:02:21 MohammadAG bu do you have some problem using the lib? Jan 22 22:02:25 *but Jan 22 22:02:33 whenever I call getCurrentMetadata() in the wrapper, the app segfaults Jan 22 22:02:40 or was that getStatus()... Jan 22 22:04:14 MohammadAG here is my old class it worked just fine http://pastebin.com/SQi3EWvk Jan 22 22:08:13 ArGGu^^, this is the class I'm using atm, it doesn't seem to be sending anything right? http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/mafwrenderersignalhelper.cpp#line153 Jan 22 22:15:06 MohammadAG are you sure it find the rendered. Because some odd reason i never got any renderes with get_renderers Jan 22 22:15:29 that why I used the signals renderer-added and renderer-removed Jan 22 22:15:29 ArGGu^^, yeah, it works with the rest of the stuff Jan 22 22:15:59 ok Jan 22 22:16:08 but what's a GHashTable? Jan 22 22:19:11 MohammadAG what you mean what it is? Jan 22 22:19:28 how do I handle it in Qt? Jan 22 22:20:08 well I do not think you can change in qt variable Jan 22 22:20:18 QString::QString(g_value_get_string(mafw_metadata_first(metadata, MAFW_METADATA_KEY_ARTIST))); Jan 22 22:20:33 but used it like that to get QString artist Jan 22 22:21:29 ah Jan 22 22:21:33 hello , I would like to play a sound from phone speakers , even bluetooth hands free is connected , any ideas how to do that ? I tried " gst-launch " but not sure how to put parameters ... Jan 22 22:22:08 ArGGu^^, so g_value_get_string() get the value from a ghashtable? Jan 22 22:22:20 no Jan 22 22:22:32 mafw_metadata_first() Jan 22 22:22:42 first parameter is the ghastable Jan 22 22:22:45 *hash Jan 22 22:22:49 second is key Jan 22 22:23:03 it returns Gvalue Jan 22 22:23:19 and with g_value_get_string() you get string from Gvalue Jan 22 22:35:49 ArGGu^^, so umm Jan 22 22:36:03 mafw_metadata_first(ghashtable, gvalue)? Jan 22 22:37:28 no Jan 22 22:37:41 mafw_metadata_first(ghashtable, key) Jan 22 22:37:52 the key is string o something like that Jan 22 22:37:57 wait I check Jan 22 22:38:28 and that returns a gvalue, which g_value_get_string converts to a char Jan 22 22:38:30 mafw_metadata_first (GHashTable *md, const gchar *key); Jan 22 22:38:34 right? Jan 22 22:39:33 yeah it returns GValue and g_value_get_string converts it Jan 22 22:40:10 I don'ẗ have clue what the gvalue is :S Jan 22 22:40:23 but you get string from it with g_value_get_string Jan 22 22:44:10 cool Jan 22 22:44:18 MohammadAG http://library.maemodocs.nokia.com/fremantle/index.jsp Jan 22 22:44:22 QString artist = g_value_get_string(mafw_metadata_first(table, MAFW_METADATA_KEY_ARTIST)); Jan 22 22:44:24 QString songName = g_value_get_string(mafw_metadata_first(table, MAFW_METADATA_KEY_NAME)); Jan 22 22:44:24 QString album = g_value_get_string(mafw_metadata_first(table, MAFW_METADATA_KEY_ALBUM)); Jan 22 22:44:34 you get lot of good information from there Jan 22 22:45:52 MohammadAG there is no MAFW_METADATA_KEY_NAME Jan 22 22:45:57 thanks ArGGu^^ :D Jan 22 22:46:16 there is MAFW_METADATA_KEY_TITLE Jan 22 22:47:45 yeah, just noticed that :) Jan 22 22:48:29 * MohammadAG wonders if there's a way to get qDebug to write to stderr Jan 22 22:50:20 qdebug defaults to stderr Jan 22 22:51:22 yeah, I just learned that from #qt Jan 22 22:51:26 what writes stdout then Jan 22 22:51:28 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qtglobal.html#qDebug has info, including a link about installing a new message handler Jan 22 22:56:38 still segfaults ArGGu^^ Jan 22 22:56:51 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=nvNUaR81 Jan 22 22:58:49 http://pastebin.com/ULYTGUKT code Jan 22 22:59:43 what's the problem to find stdout write()? just pipe to a fifo, and see which sourceline it blocks Jan 22 23:00:14 gdb is for DeBugging Jan 22 23:00:23 he has a bug Jan 22 23:00:29 it's segfaulting Jan 22 23:00:38 MohammadAG: compile with -g Jan 22 23:01:04 i've not mixed glib/c and qt/c++ much... is it kosher to use a c++ function pointer in a c callback? Jan 22 23:04:54 for sure not Jan 22 23:05:34 MohammadAG does it execute the get_current_metadata_cb at all? Jan 22 23:05:42 the callback function needs a proper environment of own breed to live in Jan 22 23:06:02 http://pastebin.com/4A9EmWZy Jan 22 23:06:05 segfaults on line 13 Jan 22 23:06:12 ArGGu^^, yeah, see paste ^ Jan 22 23:06:16 got to love a site that advertises "We pay the HAZMAT fees for you!" Jan 22 23:07:43 Hi, my N900 sometimes doesn re-lock the screen if I slide it open, then close it, like it used to Jan 22 23:07:46 Known issue? Jan 22 23:08:54 MohammadAG why are you giving this as parameter? Jan 22 23:09:26 I mean I don't think you should send pointer to your object Jan 22 23:09:40 gpointer user_data Jan 22 23:09:43 ArGGu^^, I didn't actually write that wapper Jan 22 23:09:53 that the last parameter Jan 22 23:09:55 that's just a pointer, it's not the problem... Jan 22 23:10:09 http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/mafwrendereradapter.cpp Jan 22 23:10:12 the mafw function does not touch the user_data, it just forwards it Jan 22 23:10:14 well but if it try to use it someway Jan 22 23:10:16 http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer/blobs/master/mafwrenderersignalhelper.cpp Jan 22 23:10:18 so no risk of sigsegv Jan 22 23:10:32 aa well then it is not problem Jan 22 23:11:07 segfault is in the first file line 295 Jan 22 23:36:18 well that killed the convo :P Jan 22 23:37:04 MohammadAG umm I clone your git and erased all that needed the GConfItem and then compiled it Jan 22 23:37:17 And it runs fine Jan 22 23:37:30 ArGGu^^, i didn't push a broken build Jan 22 23:37:36 /broken source Jan 22 23:37:54 ArGGu^^, just add mafwrenderer->getCurrentMetadata() in nowplayingwindow.cpp Jan 22 23:38:17 Doing it in the constructor results in a segfault Jan 22 23:45:37 MohammadAG but it does segfault because you do not have any renderer when you call mafwrenderer->getCurrentMetadata() in NowPlayingWindow constructor Jan 22 23:46:02 hmm Jan 22 23:48:15 MohammadAG add this->mafw_renderer = NULL to MafwRendererAdapter constructor so then it if (mafw_renderer) detect it false if there is no renderer Jan 22 23:48:54 but in nowplaying window you start the play Jan 22 23:49:21 so when you start music there is renderer Jan 22 23:49:28 but not before that Jan 22 23:49:35 unless there is already music playing Jan 22 23:53:42 ArGGu^^, that fixed the segfault, but now creating a window from NowPlayingIndicator doesn't work Jan 22 23:56:40 MohammadAG what window you are trying to create from there? Jan 22 23:57:04 NowPlayingWindow Jan 22 23:57:19 oh Jan 22 23:57:20 it worked Jan 22 23:57:47 thanks ArGGu^^ ! Jan 23 00:05:05 need to get more ram 2gb now days is too little :S Jan 23 00:05:34 yeah, tell that to my desktop Jan 23 00:05:40 laptop has 4GBs though :D Jan 23 00:06:49 zram ftw! Jan 23 00:10:30 ArGGu^^, I'm assuming you also used duration? Jan 23 00:10:43 int duration = g_value_get_int(mafw_metadata_first(table, MAFW_METADATA_KEY_DURATION)); Jan 23 00:10:52 qDebug() << QString::number(duration); Jan 23 00:10:52 duration is 0 Jan 23 00:14:06 MohammadAG I did not use it :S Jan 23 00:14:12 but I can test it wait Jan 23 00:14:20 messerting: check syslog for Jan 23 00:14:21 [49238.970916] slide (GPIO 71) is now open Jan 23 00:14:23 [49247.455230] slide (GPIO 71) is now closed Jan 23 00:14:53 DocScrutinizer: Yes, it correctly recognize it as closed, which is strange Jan 23 00:15:23 usually, the screen locks when I close the slide, if the screen was locked when I opened it, and I didn't touch the screen Jan 23 00:15:55 hmm, then maybe you're running an app that keeps the screen on, like marble or xchat... Jan 23 00:16:13 maybe Jan 23 00:16:22 it is not like this always Jan 23 00:16:56 I think I only encountered it while wlan was in HIGH (or was it LOW) Jan 23 00:17:05 or mce gets otherwise confused Jan 23 00:17:33 might be it started to do things like this after I installed SMSCon Jan 23 00:19:20 will investigate and report back some other day - need to sleep - thanks helping :) Jan 23 00:25:42 MohammadAG yes it 0 some odd reason :S Jan 23 00:26:19 Describes the duration of the item (in seconds). Its value is an integer. Jan 23 00:26:24 it should work :/ Jan 23 00:26:48 I check if there is duration in dbus Jan 23 00:26:57 because the lib uses dbus Jan 23 00:27:20 duration is sent somehow Jan 23 00:27:31 thp uses it in gpodder afaik Jan 23 00:28:51 MohammadAG there is no duration also in the dbus Jan 23 00:29:15 o_O Jan 23 00:33:33 even the com.nokia.mafw.source.get_metadata return 0 duration :S Jan 23 00:40:02 MohammadAG dbus signals has duration when metadata is changed Jan 23 00:40:11 ArGGu^^ MohammadAG: its sent as metadata when the file is played Jan 23 00:40:21 so maybe you can get it with the signal Jan 23 00:41:08 thp, so there's no way to get it while the file's playing? Jan 23 00:44:54 MohammadAG I think there is no way get it while file's is playing because the lib uses dbus for getting the metadata and there is no duration in the dbus Jan 23 00:45:07 so only the metadata_changed signal has it Jan 23 00:45:57 impossible Jan 23 00:46:09 the stock player gets it somehow Jan 23 00:46:29 MohammadAG but I do not see what the problem :S Jan 23 00:46:40 could be mafw source, not the renderer Jan 23 00:46:40 you just connect the signal Jan 23 00:47:43 ArGGu^^, this is a mediaplayer rewrite Jan 23 00:47:54 so? Jan 23 00:48:08 we're replacing the mediaplayer Jan 23 00:48:25 and the mediaplayer does it fine Jan 23 00:48:26 yeah I get that Jan 23 00:48:38 it gets the song length, even when closed/reopened Jan 23 00:49:52 guess it's mafw source Jan 23 00:57:12 quick C++ question Jan 23 00:57:25 NowPlayingIndicator currently has a mafwrenderer of its own Jan 23 00:57:37 how do I get it to use the parent's mafwrenderer? Jan 23 00:57:48 from nowplayingwindow.cpp Jan 23 00:57:55 err, nowplayingindicator.cpp* Jan 23 00:58:06 not from the parent's code Jan 23 01:00:41 nah screw it Jan 23 01:00:45 gonna study Jan 23 01:00:46 bbl Jan 23 01:02:21 MohammadAG the mediaplayer has to get the duration somewhere else because it has the duration even before playin the file :S Jan 23 01:02:31 playing Jan 23 01:17:48 ArGGu^^, yeah, mafw source and mafw playlist Jan 23 01:19:52 there is mafw_source_browse could that give the duration :S Jan 23 01:32:44 well I need to go to sleep Jan 23 01:33:05 good night Jan 23 02:03:21 huh, looks like kinetic scrolling kinda screws up a QListView's selection... Jan 23 02:04:27 it briefly appears to highlight the item you tapped, then works out you're scrolling, not tapping, and the highlight returns to the previous-selected thing (this is all correct) Jan 23 02:05:35 but after scrolling, the originally highlighted thing appears selected, but selectionModel()->currentIndex() returns the one you tapped over to start the scroll **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 23 02:59:57 2011