**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 28 02:59:56 2011 Jan 28 03:32:02 Yo Jan 28 03:37:01 share me activation mic. office please? Jan 28 03:37:24 Mosey the aubergine quickly, Harold. Jan 28 04:05:31 so those windows phone 7 certified microsd cards are supposed to have very reliable random write speeds, correct? Jan 28 04:05:46 Would they work well as swap space in an N900 as opposed to the internan eMMC storage? Jan 28 04:07:01 what does windows do with them that needs certification? swap or cache as opposed to filesystem? Jan 28 04:07:56 i forget what the whole issue was but i believe it had to do with windows phone 7 pretty much destroying many microsd cards because their random read/write speeds were very sub-par Jan 28 04:08:39 http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/17/windows-phone-7s-microsd-mess-the-full-story-and-how-nokia-ca/ Jan 28 04:10:10 should be near the bottom Jan 28 04:10:51 but i assume so-called "windows phone certified" cards will have superior random access speeds to those on the market today, making it idea for virtual memory Jan 28 04:11:27 heh, i love it when microsoft occasionally does something cool by accident Jan 28 04:11:38 reminds me of the Vista-ready webcams thing Jan 28 04:11:52 they were required to support UVC to get the little sticker Jan 28 04:12:23 meaning that the little "windows vista ready" sticker was a guarantee that your new webcam would work with linux Jan 28 04:12:25 but am I right in assuming when these cards hit the market they would be ideal for our swap space? Jan 28 04:12:54 i don't know how the uSD slot compares to the stuff swap is on by default... Jan 28 04:13:05 even with an ideal card Jan 28 04:13:25 the internal storage is still eMMC i believe Jan 28 04:13:38 probably not optimized for random access Jan 28 04:17:08 talking of which, does anybody know why the io scheduler is set to cfq? Jan 28 04:19:38 I guess the one that did that config should know Jan 28 04:20:36 DocScrutinizer: given that it's probably a kernel default, they might not... Jan 28 04:21:17 is there anything in one of the repos that offers reasonably realistic filesystem benchmarking? Jan 28 04:22:37 basically, it's said that noop often works surprisingly well with solid-state gear Jan 28 04:22:44 and i'd like to test that Jan 28 04:36:53 Damnit. Dropped this bloody thing, and two of the top screws seem to have popped out. Jan 28 04:37:16 Just hoping they can be screwed back in. Jan 28 04:37:32 Otherwise, I might have to be on my 4th device XD Jan 28 04:38:25 hmm, I hear the Komputerbay 16GB class 6 card is the fastest card when it comes to random access Jan 28 04:38:37 I'll give that a whirl, it's only like $40 Jan 28 04:39:48 16GB solid state for what... 30 quid? Not bad. That would have required a small mortgage 10 years ago. Jan 28 04:40:23 I'm getting seemingly random crashes—I take the n900 out of my pocket, and it's powered off Jan 28 04:40:41 no, microSDHC Jan 28 04:40:49 not an SSD Jan 28 04:41:00 I didnt say SSD, Saz. Jan 28 04:41:21 CableTwitch, that's usually implied nowadays, my bad Jan 28 04:41:50 have to take the battery out and back in before I can reboot it Jan 28 04:41:56 I just said solid state ;O) Jan 28 04:42:14 here's the card: http://www.amazon.com/KOMPUTERBAY-microSD-microSDHC-Memory-Adapter/dp/B003O996G8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top I'm gonna try it in the N900 and see if it works faster than the internal eMMC as swap space Jan 28 04:42:55 I've read reports that it works well on a windows phone 7 device, which has very high requirements in regards to random read/write speeds Jan 28 04:43:31 just recently had a reflash, and the only -devel packages I have installed are Rockbox and its documentation Jan 28 04:43:33 Sazpaimon: microSDHC *is* a SSD Jan 28 04:43:53 luke-jr, okay, you have me there Jan 28 04:45:29 I'd say CF was more an SSD thanSD Jan 28 04:45:35 (it was happening before the reflash too) Jan 28 04:47:39 I wonder if we'll get an updated version of CF with a SATA interface? Jan 28 04:48:10 Highly unliklely. Jan 28 04:48:22 CF has an inherently fragile and expensive connector. Jan 28 04:48:36 The original CF was ATA, was it not? Jan 28 04:48:44 Yes. Jan 28 04:48:59 But ATA->UDMA is not a big step Jan 28 04:49:12 it's the same number of pins, using them slightly differently. Jan 28 04:49:36 theoretically, you could probably build a flash card that fits into a SATA connector :P Jan 28 04:50:05 Not quite - SATAhasno power. Jan 28 04:50:08 i think quite a lot would already, with a bit of blu-tac maybe Jan 28 04:50:14 It'd need to straddle both connecotors Jan 28 04:50:17 SpeedEvil: eSATA does Jan 28 04:50:20 oh Jan 28 04:53:41 * Dhraakellian wonders if power management might have something to do with it and how to diagnose Jan 28 04:55:36 Mind you, USB3 is a rather tasty development. Jan 28 04:56:10 looking further, the class 4 kingston 16GB seems to have the best random read/write speeds Jan 28 04:56:12 Might actually be worth using external SSD units, as they can take advantage of the high bandwidth. Jan 28 04:56:27 I'll give that one a buy then, I trust kingston, never heard of komputerbay Jan 28 04:57:10 USB3 card readers.... RAID0 them :O) Jan 28 05:00:18 Saz: Let us know what you find out with that card. Jan 28 05:07:36 RobbieThe1st beep Jan 28 05:08:00 (Still loopy) Jan 28 05:18:39 CableTwitch, I'm looking for cards that have good reports in windows phone devices Jan 28 05:18:47 so far this has yeilded the best results Jan 28 05:19:20 if a card has good performance in a windows phone, it's very high quality in terms of performance Jan 28 05:20:02 FWIW i still haven't gotten an N900 yet, I need to find a decent listing for it and get it once I get my tax return :( Jan 28 05:21:40 i also need to go through the process of cancelling with AT&T and switching to tmo Jan 28 05:31:00 Oh hell yes. The damabe I feared was simply retightening the screws. Jan 28 05:39:18 ...And I just learned to be very careful around PHP when you've done a lot of JS. a + in php between strings doesn't concatenate, but doesn't bring up a noticable error either. Jan 28 05:45:29 is there a way to lock keypresses and touchscreen input, while still keeping the display lit while on charger? Jan 28 05:47:02 in n800 it does that if you have the setting to keep screen on while charging enabled, and then do lock screen and keys Jan 28 05:47:24 but in n900 it turns of display as well Jan 28 05:47:47 *of = off Jan 28 06:11:25 As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose — that it may violate property instead of protecting it — then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Jan 28 06:11:30 - Frederic Bastiat, http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html Jan 28 06:14:18 DocScrutinizer: Ok, I've got a slight problem with that charge script. If BackupMenu is charging, and I reboot the device into Maemo, BME can't charge - It simply says "Not charging". Jan 28 06:27:21 is there an easy way to backup and restore the entire built-in flash on the n900? Jan 28 06:27:35 Yea... My application: BackupMenu Jan 28 06:27:52 cool, does it backup to the microsd? Jan 28 06:28:01 Or eMMC, which ever you pick Jan 28 06:28:22 It's in extras-devel. Jan 28 06:28:30 emmc? Jan 28 06:28:32 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 Jan 28 06:28:46 The internal flash(32-GB) Jan 28 06:29:13 oh, so it can take a snapshot and backup to itself, nice Jan 28 06:29:57 Sort of, not quite - the eMMC is divided into several partitions: the /opt/ filesystem, some swap-space and the MyDocs partiton Jan 28 06:30:28 It will backup to the MyDocs partition or your SD card. It -takes- backups of the NAND flash and the /opt/ filesystem Jan 28 06:30:52 i currently dont have a sd card Jan 28 06:31:24 Not an issue - that's what backing it up to the MyDocs is for - It's what's accessable over USB Jan 28 06:31:30 what i want is to be able to make an image that i can copy to another pc so if i break/lose the phone i can restore a new n900 to the same state Jan 28 06:31:42 RobbieThe1st: seems bme has another bug there. I frequently need to restart bme 2 times, and/or need to replug the charger USB, to start charging Jan 28 06:32:00 When you plug it into a PC and you see "n900" show up? That's the MyDocs partition. Jan 28 06:32:10 DocScrutinizer: Hm, odd. Jan 28 06:32:23 RobbieThe1st: probably bme is relying on some initialization of bq24150 and /or 1707 PHY Jan 28 06:32:42 RobbieThe1st: does it backup the mydocs partition itself? Jan 28 06:32:58 which normally is either power-on default state, or done by NOLO Jan 28 06:33:06 DocScrutinizer: That's what I'm thinking, but I need to figure out how to reset it to default Jan 28 06:33:22 Psi: No, and for good reason - it's 27GB. where could I copy it too? Jan 28 06:33:48 Psi: But that's not an issue - just plug it into your computer and copy it all from there. Jan 28 06:33:54 yeah Jan 28 06:34:24 could have it so you can backup to the mounted network share Jan 28 06:34:32 the=a Jan 28 06:35:03 That can all be done from inside Maemo; Just a line or too of shell-script. Jan 28 06:35:12 yeah Jan 28 06:35:22 Backupmenu does what -can't-; namely OS backup and restore. Jan 28 06:35:30 ok, thanks, will try BackupMenu Jan 28 06:36:41 RobbieThe1st: first thing to try is to wait 30s after stopping charging script. This should trigger bq24150 watchdog and cause a power-on reset, you'll notice this (in standard system booted) by the steady amber lighting up, which indicates bq24150 entered emergency charging mode which is default after power-up Jan 28 06:37:23 Yea, lets see,,, Jan 28 06:38:02 RobbieThe1st: is the warning about permanent hardware damage from i2cset and i2c-tools normal Jan 28 06:38:35 Yea; just don't use i2cset yourself and you'll be fine Jan 28 06:38:51 yes Jan 28 06:39:36 there actually are some chips in N900 that have some registers marked as "do not write - might cause hardware damage" Jan 28 06:40:08 i2ctools are not a toy for users with no clue about the hw Jan 28 06:40:23 DocScrutinizer: And heck, if you write the wrong thing to the charger, you -could- end up frying the battery, couldn't you? Jan 28 06:40:34 nope Jan 28 06:41:03 definitely nope, no matter how many times whoever repeats such nonsense Jan 28 06:41:12 Oh. Thats good then. Jan 28 06:41:12 yeah, probable for firmware reprogramming and voltage settings Jan 28 06:41:24 bq24150 is immanently safe for battery Jan 28 06:42:13 you can wear out the battery rather fast, by mistreating it via bq24150 misconfiguration Jan 28 06:42:34 but there's no way to destroy the battery in a few hours or even minutes Jan 28 06:42:50 even less there's any danger whatsoever Jan 28 06:43:41 Oh heck. That's not worrysome at all then. Jan 28 06:45:52 RobbieThe1st: on boot got "error with cp /lib/libacl.so.1 /tmp/disk/lib/ code: 1" Jan 28 06:46:07 press space Jan 28 06:46:09 ignore it Jan 28 06:46:17 But I'll look at that error Jan 28 06:46:19 I.E. you can choose to set bq24150 to operation modes that are quite different from what's recommended, but you can't set it to operate battery outside of the cell's ABS MAX ratings, for all I know about those ratings (alas Nokia hasn't published those, so I have to use those of other similar cells) Jan 28 06:46:27 getting a few more, pressing space again Jan 28 06:46:36 K. Jan 28 06:46:38 ok, menu loaded Jan 28 06:46:47 At some point, would you mind writing those errors down? Jan 28 06:47:08 i got 3 files Jan 28 06:47:43 That sounds right Jan 28 06:47:54 3 errors you mean? Jan 28 06:47:59 yeah Jan 28 06:48:54 Psi: I assume you don't have a ssh-server installed? Jan 28 06:49:37 /lib/libacl.so.1 , /lib/libattr.so.1.1.0 and /usr/lib/liblzo2.so.2 Jan 28 06:49:47 all code 1 Jan 28 06:49:51 Yea. Jan 28 06:49:53 Thanks Jan 28 06:50:00 i can ssh into the phone Jan 28 06:50:47 -if- you have ssh-server installed Jan 28 06:54:12 i mean i have 'an' ssh server installed, i just dont know if its the package ssh-server (installed it quite a while ago) Jan 28 06:54:22 Alright Jan 28 06:54:51 phone is currently making a backup Jan 28 06:54:59 RobbieThe1st: btw bq24150 also isn't one of those chips that have forbidden registers - you can't destroy it via i2ctools. Jan 28 06:55:14 K. Out of curiosity, did you install it from my website, or the extras-devel repo, Psi? Jan 28 06:55:20 lis302 accel meter is marked as dangerous Jan 28 06:55:23 DocScrutinizer: That's good to know Jan 28 06:56:26 RobbieThe1st: from the maemo package manager which i assume used extra-devel Jan 28 06:56:38 Alright Jan 28 06:57:21 Oh. -that- explains one of my problems Jan 28 06:57:49 Huh... I wonder why Version 0.60-2 never uploaded... Jan 28 06:58:24 RobbieThe1st: I think you've noticed ShadowJK's script is nicely commented, so it's not really hard to understand and try to improve, if you're willing to read the chip's datasheet to learn about the meaning of the registers Jan 28 06:58:26 morning Jan 28 07:00:34 i like the open-kbd = menu closed-kbd = normal boot Jan 28 07:01:27 I hate it, I want mind control! Jan 28 07:03:44 MohammadAG: sure, you'd just need to carry around a headset and a tube of conductive transducer jelly :P Jan 28 07:04:07 Psi, cool, right? Jan 28 07:04:07 :P Jan 28 07:04:31 the idea is cool, but somehow i dont think it would look cool :P Jan 28 07:05:27 anyone know why recently i seem to have lost all the small fonts in the maemo terminal? Jan 28 07:05:46 it says "already at min font size" when im sure ive had it much smaller than that before Jan 28 07:07:58 nevermind, going in to the terminal font options and changing it to 10pt seems to have got past the min font message, the +/- buttons are now changing the font size properly again Jan 28 07:10:12 RobbieThe1st: backup seems to have worked fine, files are in mydocs as expected, 1gb for opt and 270mb for root Jan 28 07:10:48 Good. Jan 28 07:11:17 Do note they are just tar files, so you can go in and change/fix things if you need. Jan 28 07:11:30 yeah, i noticed Jan 28 07:11:35 (But remember to preserve permissions) Jan 28 07:11:43 * Psi starts samba and copies them to other pc for backup Jan 28 07:13:35 used to use sshfs to get files off phone but samba seems faster, probably because its not encrypting it Jan 28 07:13:49 should get around to installing ftp Jan 28 07:14:26 meh. SSH/SCP's nice and works fast enough. Jan 28 07:14:30 secure = good Jan 28 07:16:16 heh 7gb MyDocs over phone wifi, this is going to take a while Jan 28 07:19:28 ok, 5hours, this is insane Jan 28 07:19:31 time to install ftp Jan 28 07:19:44 Why not connect it via USB? Jan 28 07:19:55 You'll get better speeds... and keep it charged Jan 28 07:20:17 yeah, i could do that, but im just looking for an excuse to install ftp :) Jan 28 07:28:01 rsync rules :P Jan 28 07:28:25 i Jan 28 07:28:28 i.e. resume Jan 28 07:30:00 looks like proftpd under easydebian is a little harder than just an apt-get (dependencie issues) oh well, usb mass storage mode it is Jan 28 07:41:57 is there anything else i should check when it wont usb mount due to device in use? lsof has nothing to do with MyDocs and ive shutdown the debianchroot Jan 28 07:43:15 Psi, there should be grync in the maemo repo Jan 28 07:43:19 probably extra Jan 28 07:43:38 I find that unplugging, waiting for 5-10 seconds, then replugging works most of the timne Jan 28 07:43:43 if you need ui Jan 28 08:01:18 DocScrutinizer: Am I reading this write? If I set the MSB of register 04 to a 1, the chip goes into reset mode? Jan 28 08:01:33 s/write/right/g Jan 28 08:01:33 RobbieThe1st meant: DocScrutinizer: Am I reading this right? If I set the MSB of register 04 to a 1, the chip goes into reset mode? Jan 28 08:02:43 # tickle watchdog timer Jan 28 08:02:44 $i2cset -y -m 0x80 2 0x6b 0x00 0x80; Jan 28 08:02:48 err Jan 28 08:03:11 # reset bq24150 Jan 28 08:03:13 $i2cset -y -m 0x80 2 0x6b 0x04 0x80 Jan 28 08:03:29 Oh, good. I think I was right, then Jan 28 08:04:05 trap cleanup INT QUIT TERM EXIT Jan 28 08:04:06 cleanup(){ Jan 28 08:04:08 trap - INT QUIT TERM EXIT Jan 28 08:04:09 # reset bq24150 Jan 28 08:04:11 $i2cset -y -m 0x80 2 0x6b 0x04 0x80 Jan 28 08:04:29 It was commented out on my copy of the charger-script for some reason Jan 28 08:04:55 err, I'm not aware the charger script has it Jan 28 08:05:10 #echo -n Reset... Jan 28 08:05:10 #i2cset -y -m 0x80 2 0x6b 0x04 80 Jan 28 08:05:15 above is a quote from my jrbme script Jan 28 08:05:43 I'm talking about shadow's script, the one you linked me to Jan 28 08:05:51 Either way, this -might- just solve my problem Jan 28 08:06:08 yes, it probably does. Esp if you use trap Jan 28 08:12:28 Yes! Jan 28 08:22:43 ..Aand, for anyone that cares, Version 0.61-1 has been uploaded with fixed charging support, SSH-mode working right again, and a couple of other bugfixes Jan 28 08:28:30 :-D Jan 28 08:30:55 RobbieThe1st: it's been commented out in charger because it's useless at start of script Jan 28 08:31:03 ah, yea Jan 28 08:31:15 It's sort of useful at the -end-, though. Jan 28 08:31:26 you need a cleanup() that's called via trap Jan 28 08:31:46 as there's no "end" when script gets cancelled Jan 28 08:32:29 <[DrkGUNMAN-N900]> I'm a bit late to the conversation - what is this update in relation to? Jan 28 08:32:51 hmm,apparently egypt is disconnected from internet Jan 28 08:33:00 Point, though in my case I'm not worried - I know where I'm killing that script, so I can just run it at that point Jan 28 08:33:14 Provided someone doesn't yank the battery, it'll all work perfectly. Jan 28 08:34:33 RobbieThe1st: err sorry - how can you execute something at a certain point in a script conditional just when it's killed? Jan 28 08:35:00 how do you stop the scrpt? Jan 28 08:35:32 Simple: Script A launches charge-script B. At shutdown time, script A kills script B, then runs the reset-command, unmounts everything, and powers off Jan 28 08:35:48 ouch Jan 28 08:35:54 well, it works Jan 28 08:36:21 It works nicely; script A is the rest of my program, so I'm not exactly adding anything extra Jan 28 08:37:16 it's unclean though, as you'll probably run the umount and kill even when there's nothing to kill or reset Jan 28 08:37:40 proper way to implement such things is to have a trap section in your primary script Jan 28 08:38:00 or: umount /my/fs &> /dev/null Jan 28 08:38:02 also clean Jan 28 08:38:03 Unless the charge-script dies due to a glich, there's no way it's going to be shut off.. :\ Jan 28 08:38:27 (though bash-centric) Jan 28 08:38:48 Mainly because it's launched at startup, no matter if USB is connected or not. Laggy, but seems to work Jan 28 08:38:58 you noticed your first statement justifying the 2 script approach started with "unless"? :-) Jan 28 08:39:50 this "unless" was why I said "proper way" Jan 28 08:40:27 What I'm not sure is the benefit - I'd be moving the reset line from script A into script B; I Jan 28 08:40:37 I'd -still- have to kill script B from script A.. Jan 28 08:40:49 Because script A is my application Jan 28 08:41:02 well, also because you frequently prefer to have one sequence of commands forming a function, in one file, just for clarity and maintainability Jan 28 08:41:30 That there might be a point. Jan 28 08:42:26 somebody night decide to call script B, unaware it isn't working without the "postprocessing" in script A Jan 28 08:42:35 s/night/might/. Jan 28 08:42:48 Eh... In this case, though, I -know- the reset code will be run no matter what else happens. If there's an error in the charge-script and it dies... No worries. Jan 28 08:43:41 And, nomatter what anyone does via SSH, it will -still- get reset as it's one of the last lines before reboot; no time for someone to screw things up Jan 28 08:44:18 I might call the script in my normal system Jan 28 08:44:25 Yea. I might add a second copy to the script later, when JRBME comes out... But this seems a lot more foolproof. Jan 28 08:44:33 and I bet somebody will do Jan 28 08:44:55 (wait for jrbme) that's what I'd suggest anyway Jan 28 08:45:31 I'm doing both. Right now, this works, seems to work well... and No reason to take it out when it makes people happy. Jan 28 08:45:51 yesyes, you even promoted it aiui Jan 28 08:45:59 I did? Jan 28 08:46:08 so no hurry, just update to jrbme when available Jan 28 08:46:13 Oh, wait... charging. Yea. Yea. Jan 28 08:46:38 [2011-01-28 09:22:27] ..Aand, for anyone that cares, Version 0.61-1 has been uploaded with fixed charging support, SSH-mode working right again, and a couple of other bugfixes Jan 28 08:46:42 Yes! It's up in devel now. It sure takes a bit, doesn't it? Jan 28 08:47:07 DocScrutinizer: Yea; I thought for a minute you meant "promoted" as in "promoted to extras-testing" Jan 28 08:47:46 was not sure about that, but whatever, you published it, so no use in "revoking" anything right now Jan 28 08:50:09 ugh Jan 28 08:50:13 windows is retarded Jan 28 08:50:19 it nuked itself on my laptop Jan 28 08:50:21 ^^ Jan 28 08:50:27 seriously Jan 28 08:50:31 7, vista or XP? Jan 28 08:50:32 chkdsk deleted dlls Jan 28 08:50:40 system dlls! Jan 28 08:50:42 7 Jan 28 08:50:55 Sounds about right Jan 28 08:51:01 I need to reinstall some "WDAC" thing, and it's part of the OS Jan 28 08:52:12 Y'know, you'd think that these days it could automatically detect a broken file, connect to MS's site and download an appropriate copy in a couple of minutes... Jan 28 09:10:12 <`Ika_Musume> humm Jan 28 09:10:34 <`Ika_Musume> is there any japanese language support for n Jan 28 09:10:39 <`Ika_Musume> n900 Jan 28 09:11:01 in what way? Jan 28 09:12:22 <`Ika_Musume> well regional, since it doesnt support all kanji Jan 28 09:12:55 wasn't "leaked" 1.2 about honkong or sth? Jan 28 09:13:17 <`Ika_Musume> i dont know i havnt been updated Jan 28 09:13:30 humm that I'm not sure of, I do know that media player does show Japanese titles but inputting and UI = no support Jan 28 09:14:16 <`Ika_Musume> so noo regional ? Jan 28 09:14:30 none that I'm aware of Jan 28 09:14:36 <`Ika_Musume> ok Jan 28 09:14:42 check available firmware image versions Jan 28 09:14:56 <`Ika_Musume> humm Jan 28 09:14:58 but like I said media player does show Japanese titles if they were embedded Jan 28 09:15:19 there's HK support for menus and very basic input for Chinese Jan 28 09:15:44 oh and those support are only available via extras-devel Jan 28 09:15:53 <`Ika_Musume> its not media player , its for xchat and internets Jan 28 09:16:31 <`Ika_Musume> i hardcode subs into movies if i need to since anime have karaoke fansubsubs Jan 28 09:16:39 xchat Japanese input? yeah that requires something like scim which I don't think there's one for Japanese Jan 28 09:16:52 <`Ika_Musume> i see Jan 28 09:17:41 <`Ika_Musume> thx anyways Jan 28 09:17:47 internets such as browsing? well there's 3rd party browsers like chromium or firefox fennec or opera mobile for instance which can probably render Japanese texts Jan 28 09:18:21 <`Ika_Musume> firefox sux , its to old and plugins arnt supported Jan 28 09:18:52 <`Ika_Musume> opera eh , it dont support adobe flash Jan 28 09:19:05 its fennec here we are talking about. Maemo's stock browser microB is based on firefox :p Jan 28 09:19:19 <`Ika_Musume> it is? Jan 28 09:19:33 well the internal engine pretty much is Jan 28 09:19:33 <`Ika_Musume> but it looks more like IE Jan 28 09:19:56 hmm microB seems to also be able to render Japanese texts Jan 28 09:20:00 lol IE Jan 28 09:20:44 <`Ika_Musume> do you gys know if there ia any news on flash ? Jan 28 09:21:12 <`Ika_Musume> flash is the heart of the internets >_> Jan 28 09:21:25 it isn't Jan 28 09:21:40 <`Ika_Musume> cuz changing the flash ver doesnt always work Jan 28 09:21:46 flash is far away from the heart of internetz ;) Jan 28 09:22:04 <`Ika_Musume> well 70% of webpages use flash Jan 28 09:22:27 and if you remove the ad's, how many uses flash then? ;) Jan 28 09:22:47 <`Ika_Musume> well its not only ads Jan 28 09:22:54 <`Ika_Musume> its also menu,s Jan 28 09:23:22 the sites i visit doesn't use flash Jan 28 09:23:22 <`Ika_Musume> most of our dutch sites are flash based menu's Jan 28 09:24:29 <`Ika_Musume> its not just ad's sadly Jan 28 09:25:31 <`Ika_Musume> ohwell , hows meego going? Jan 28 09:25:39 -> #meego Jan 28 09:25:53 <`Ika_Musume> is is beter then maemo? Jan 28 09:26:18 to the clueless, maybe Jan 28 09:27:06 <`Ika_Musume> i think there is just not enough support for lnux systems Jan 28 09:27:49 which is quite a contrary, have a look at android Jan 28 09:28:09 <`Ika_Musume> how does windows run on n900? Jan 28 09:28:20 <`Ika_Musume> slow i guess Jan 28 09:28:21 with little hope Jan 28 09:28:31 <`Ika_Musume> humm Jan 28 09:29:09 1) windows hardly came out with ARM ports so they have to run through emulator 2) The hardware specs for N900 maybe a little too underpowered for the likes of bloated windows XP and beyond Jan 28 09:29:27 <`Ika_Musume> i see Jan 28 09:30:31 Dos on the other hand... While emulated in dosbox, it's still quick because it's light. Jan 28 09:30:48 more like because its 16bit ;) Jan 28 09:31:35 wtf, a site that's using flash menu is so fubar, I wish they had a blacklist that would enable my browser to not even try to open such crap Jan 28 09:31:40 Eh... Isnt W98 16-bit also? Jan 28 09:32:04 Or was that 3.1 Jan 28 09:32:15 <`Ika_Musume> heh Jan 28 09:32:47 linux console would be far more faster than DOS, because it can be cross compiled to ARM unlike standard DOS (unless yes you're comparing against freeDOS) Jan 28 09:32:54 I was kidding Jan 28 09:33:18 But yea, of course. And it is extremely fast, and we -do- have it. Jan 28 09:35:11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ Jan 28 09:35:14 <`Ika_Musume> also whats the best video player witch support most formats? and attachments in mkv Jan 28 09:35:45 mplayer? Jan 28 09:36:00 But if you want a gui, kmplayer(which uses mplayer) Jan 28 09:36:26 there's smplayer as well Jan 28 09:36:39 <`Ika_Musume> well 99% doesnt play if i keep it mkv though Jan 28 09:37:16 kmplayer ought to play it provided the video/audio codecs are in place Jan 28 09:37:18 I think it also heavily depends on the resolution/quality of the mkv Jan 28 09:37:35 mkv's just a container, and mplayer understands that Jan 28 09:37:41 if you were going to play blueray ripped movies for example of course it won't play, its too demanding Jan 28 09:38:14 or would you prefer WinNT? http://www.tuug.fi/~toni/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-Windows-NT-4.0-running-on-N900!.html Jan 28 09:38:14 <`Ika_Musume> lol nah there is 480 p encodes Jan 28 09:38:41 <`Ika_Musume> if it only was able to play them Jan 28 09:38:50 <`Ika_Musume> i havnt to re encode Jan 28 09:39:13 (watch the clock!) Jan 28 09:39:24 <`Ika_Musume> clock? Jan 28 09:41:05 <`Ika_Musume> they say its able to play h264 but i havnt been able to play mkv baseline h264 Jan 28 09:41:12 <`Ika_Musume> only as mpr Jan 28 09:41:16 <`Ika_Musume> mp4 Jan 28 09:41:30 What error do you get in the console? Jan 28 09:41:44 when you run "mplayer ./myvideo.mkv" or w/e Jan 28 09:42:01 <`Ika_Musume> unable to play format Jan 28 09:42:56 <`Ika_Musume> well i load it basicly with mplayer not via xterm Jan 28 09:43:17 Run it via the terminal if you want to get any -meaningful- error datsa Jan 28 09:43:57 <`Ika_Musume> humm so if its in .video how do i load it? Jan 28 09:44:34 cd ./MyDocs/.video/ Jan 28 09:44:41 then mplayer ./whatever Jan 28 09:44:49 note that tab autocompletes Jan 28 09:45:58 <`Ika_Musume> kk gonna try an 704x400 Jan 28 09:46:14 <`Ika_Musume> downloadin onee Jan 28 09:49:42 actually it's been this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFjl3Ob3VpU where you should watch the clock, to not lose your timing Jan 28 09:53:57 who uses x64 windows 7 here? Jan 28 09:55:17 <`Ika_Musume> tab? n900 have one? Jan 28 09:56:37 MohammadAG: I have a copy installed on my laptop, why? Jan 28 09:57:05 RobbieThe1st, can you check if you have odbc32.dll v 6.7600.16385? Jan 28 09:57:10 I'm kinda desperate now :/ Jan 28 09:57:13 Eh, sure Jan 28 10:01:35 <`Ika_Musume> img829.imageshack.us/img829/3256/screenshot2011012811020.png Jan 28 10:01:47 <`Ika_Musume> doesnt play t.t Jan 28 10:03:23 Jan 28 10:03:23 Jan 28 10:03:24 Jan 28 10:03:29 Jan 28 10:03:34 MohammadAG From windows/system32 or windows/syswow64 ? Jan 28 10:03:37 Ooh, I wonder what happened there...? Jan 28 10:04:54 Windows/system32 afaik Jan 28 10:05:55 http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/files/odbc32.dll Jan 28 10:06:13 Not sure the fersion; I cbf actually running windows Jan 28 10:09:09 RobbieThe1st, thanks, that's the version I need, but it didn't solve the problem :/ Jan 28 10:09:56 Darn. Any other files? Jan 28 10:11:37 I'm not really sure :/ Jan 28 10:12:30 * MohammadAG attempts to reboot Jan 28 10:12:33 Let me know if you do; I've got the laptop handy now. Jan 28 10:12:49 X-Fade: X-Fade_ ping Jan 28 10:14:39 achipa, friday = weekend = he might not pong :p Jan 28 10:14:46 sigh Jan 28 10:14:57 well then no mobility 1.2 for a while :S Jan 28 10:15:57 for some reasons it 'forgets' to publish it, even thought apparently the build went fine (I get the OK mail and the build dirs have the debs...) Jan 28 10:16:09 anyone with similar issues ? Jan 28 10:16:59 It did it to me last night Jan 28 10:17:15 I built another build today and that worked fine :\ Jan 28 10:18:49 I would normally retry myself, it's just that uploading tens of megs through proxy hell is not fun... Jan 28 10:21:06 achipa: That's what access to a VPS + ssh is for. :P Jan 28 10:21:44 well, if ssh worked well, I could just dput it ;) Jan 28 10:22:01 hmm Jan 28 10:22:06 Huh... what's wrong? Jan 28 10:22:09 RobbieThe1st, is the file in syswow64 different? Jan 28 10:22:23 Um... No clue. Jan 28 10:22:35 want me to check? Jan 28 10:23:17 if you can Jan 28 10:23:28 <_ke> how do you guys sync your n900 with evolution? Jan 28 10:23:32 I might just give up and reinstall windows Jan 28 10:25:54 where I can find the buzilla skin you guys use for maemo? Jan 28 10:26:01 *bugzilla Jan 28 10:28:30 MohammadAG: the SysWOW64 copy is 565248b; the System32 copy is 712704b. Jan 28 10:29:38 http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/files/private/odbc32.dll Jan 28 10:29:49 For the WOW64 one Jan 28 10:30:37 al_0: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=bugs Jan 28 10:30:51 X-Fade: thanks :) Jan 28 10:31:12 al_0: bugs project at garage. Jan 28 10:31:33 RobbieThe1st, THANKS! Jan 28 10:31:49 It worked? Jan 28 10:31:54 yep :D Jan 28 10:32:07 one more question, by any chance, do you have windows live essentials installed? Jan 28 10:33:56 Yea Jan 28 10:34:23 Though it's slightly out-of-date thanks to it deciding my copy of Windows was not genuine the last time I booted it up(about a month ago) Jan 28 10:36:42 hmm Jan 28 10:36:51 the installer keeps saying UXcore.dll is missing Jan 28 10:39:02 Lets see Jan 28 10:39:55 Nope; "UXcore.dll" doesn't seem to exist my my Windows partition Jan 28 10:40:56 C:\Program Files (X86)\Windows Live is where it should be afaik Jan 28 10:42:14 Nope; no Windows Live folder here Jan 28 10:43:09 anyway, thanks, you were a big help :) Jan 28 10:44:28 NP Jan 28 10:48:10 My N900 is now in the process of being fixed by Nokia Care Jan 28 10:48:28 Hopefully fixing whatever is causing the non-working indicator LED will not be complicated Jan 28 10:48:52 They gave me an estimate of "2-3 days" so hopefully it will be ready Monday or Tuesday Jan 28 10:49:12 did you also made sure to backup yer important data? Jan 28 10:49:31 >end delete it from the n900 Jan 28 10:49:32 yes I did Jan 28 10:49:34 *and Jan 28 10:49:38 I backed up everything from the phone Jan 28 10:49:45 I didn't delete anything Jan 28 10:50:05 the nokia engineers are now fapping on your $SO's nude pics Jan 28 10:50:20 I dont have any pictures on my phone except whatever it came with Jan 28 10:50:31 and some pictures of cars as my wallpapers Jan 28 10:50:50 they are fapping on the cars pictures then Jan 28 10:50:56 lol Jan 28 10:59:34 well the Nokia Care website says "phone collected and awaiting analysis by a nokia technician" so they dont appear to have looked at it yet (which makes sense given that they are the only place in the state doing warranty repairs for Nokia handsets) Jan 28 11:03:04 so now I am phoneless for the next few days until its fixed Jan 28 11:05:01 I suppose you might be able to bug them through some public phone :) Jan 28 11:20:18 hey how do I send a dbus call from xterm? Would like to do MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR Jan 28 11:21:31 I dont need to bug them, I will get an email when they are done Jan 28 11:23:30 hmm perhaps something like dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_enable_vibrator Jan 28 11:34:22 ahaa. The correct one is dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_enable Jan 28 11:34:46 umm Jan 28 11:34:54 not exactly Jan 28 11:35:19 yes exactly Jan 28 11:36:25 nope Jan 28 11:36:27 dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_pattern_activate string:PatternIncomingCall Jan 28 11:36:56 req_vibrator_enable is doing just this: it *enables* the vibrator, but doesn't start it Jan 28 11:37:18 listen to DocScrutinizer, he knows his shit Jan 28 11:37:34 DocScrutinizer, and what did I ask? Jan 28 11:37:56 mmmpf Jan 28 11:37:57 "Would like to do MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR" Is what I said. Jan 28 11:37:58 k Jan 28 11:38:01 :P Jan 28 11:38:04 anyway Jan 28 11:38:19 whatever MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR might be Jan 28 11:38:32 looks like a kernel_config Jan 28 11:38:34 :-P Jan 28 11:39:40 MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR is a #define in the mce-dev package Jan 28 11:39:56 and is #defined to req_vibrator_enable Jan 28 11:40:01 yep Jan 28 11:40:03 anyway Jan 28 11:40:15 the example here: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Using_MCE_interface_for_vibration_activation_in_Maemo_5 Jan 28 11:41:03 causes vibrator to be disabled on shutdown, regardless if it was enabled when the program started. Jan 28 11:41:15 and I used said example in an application Jan 28 11:41:20 and it caused problems Jan 28 11:41:35 and I wanted to enable my vibrator without having to restart the phone Jan 28 11:42:02 fixed the bug though :) (Just removed the enable/disable bits, since it should comply to the silence bits. Jan 28 11:44:54 sounds simple enough Jan 28 11:46:47 and we learnt "don't use poorly written and/or documented examples" :-) Jan 28 11:49:06 yeah, I did it in a hurry. Jan 28 11:49:40 the example is fairly obvious, but I left in the enable bit for some reason. Guess I figured it was required to get that thing started. Jan 28 11:54:34 I really need to get this thing packed up and sent to devel Jan 28 11:56:10 Oh, this is awesome :D Jan 28 11:56:16 alterego, what is? Jan 28 11:56:24 QGraphicsView + OpenGL + QWidgets Jan 28 11:56:32 ok...? Jan 28 11:56:39 http://www.crossplatform.ru/node/612 Jan 28 11:56:44 It works on the N900 :D Jan 28 11:57:06 Allows for transparent widget overlays ontop or below an OpenGL (ES) rendered scene Jan 28 11:58:05 yes Jan 28 11:58:09 is this news? Jan 28 11:58:21 Well, no, but it's the first time I've played with it :) Jan 28 11:58:25 (I agree that it's awesome) Jan 28 11:58:33 what are you making? Jan 28 11:59:00 I'm working on a "next gen" UX for my app Columbus. Jan 28 11:59:09 in 3d? Jan 28 11:59:13 Yes Jan 28 11:59:16 oo Jan 28 11:59:19 magic! Jan 28 11:59:23 :) Jan 28 11:59:36 btw Jan 28 11:59:50 interesting thing about qt apps Jan 28 12:00:49 This is all for v2, (still need to release v1) v2 will have desktop, maemo and meego UX Jan 28 12:00:59 Maybe Symbian if I can get my hands on a recent Symbian device. Jan 28 12:02:53 * SpeedEvil keeps misreading symbian without the m Jan 28 12:05:53 interesting how one half of N900 users is complaining about sluggish OS and fscks up the hw by OC, while another half is developing 3D GUIs and media players that distort album art just for fun and to annoy those who think the original was nice enough and just barely legible without any further distortion crippling it Jan 28 12:06:48 DocScrutinizer: you think my UI is distorted? Jan 28 12:07:05 mece: what's interesting about Qt apps? :P Jan 28 12:07:50 I think I've seen album cover art distorted in some screenshots of that new mediaplayer Jan 28 12:08:01 Oh, and you don't like it? Jan 28 12:45:41 andre900: what is the current thinking on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9237 ... I went through the second pair of Nokia headphones and I don't feel like buying the third pair. Jan 28 12:45:44 Bug 9237: Nokia's supplied wired earphone no longer detected after flashing Jan 28 12:46:00 Is it basically hopeless and I should buy Bluetooth or USB (does it exist?) ones? Jan 28 12:46:30 http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/Screenshot-20110128-124225.png Jan 28 12:46:33 teeheehee Jan 28 13:04:00 mcepl: I don't have a current thinking on that Jan 28 13:07:03 mcepl, uh, broken headset? Jan 28 13:07:13 flashing doesn't alter hardware Jan 28 13:07:37 MohammadAG: broken SECOND headset (this one stayed two weeks before being broken) Jan 28 13:07:53 mcepl: Sure it's not a dodgy socket? Jan 28 13:08:00 and yes dmesg shows that system recognizes connecting and disconnecting it Jan 28 13:08:10 other headphoens work Jan 28 13:08:20 then you're breaking the mic Jan 28 13:08:40 alterego, cool Jan 28 13:08:57 MohammadAG: looks good doesn't it :) Jan 28 13:09:30 I just copied the graphics engine code into a new project and copied that columbus widget into the new project Jan 28 13:10:02 alterego, yeah, although I have no idea what it is :P Jan 28 13:10:07 Created a new rendering "canvas" for my graphics engine and it allows me to overlay standard Qt widgets ontop of the scene. Jan 28 13:10:15 MohammadAG: could you elaborate on "breaking the mic"? Other headphones work with this N900 and these headphones work elsewhere. What am I breaking? Jan 28 13:10:25 the piece with the mic Jan 28 13:10:50 if the headset has a mic, the N900 does some checks which I don't know about Jan 28 13:10:52 how? Jan 28 13:10:56 I know this, cause I broke mine Jan 28 13:11:22 if you use another plug in between the headset, it'll work, mic won't though, because of the absence of the 4th pin Jan 28 13:12:36 so that audio jack is even more flaky compared to n95? heh Jan 28 13:15:02 lovely ... Jan 28 13:15:14 no Jan 28 13:15:18 psycho_oreos, no Jan 28 13:15:25 the software to detect a headset is Jan 28 13:16:42 MohammadAG, o.O I was about to say, nokia producing delicate hardwares too now :) oh well I guess its the software side as usual for mameo Jan 28 13:17:15 psycho_oreos, kernel detects the kernel, but that thing that detects the mic is causing problems Jan 28 13:18:04 There's a check to decide whether it's an a/v lead or headset when there's four poles. Jan 28 13:18:07 MohammadAG, yeah I was reading up on the bug report Jan 28 13:18:13 And I think that's handled by a resistor. Jan 28 13:18:26 psycho_oreos, meh, I don't read bug reports, I vote on important ones :P Jan 28 13:18:33 and tlol Jan 28 13:18:37 alterego, yeah, and software Jan 28 13:18:41 s/and tlol/lol/ Jan 28 13:18:43 psycho_oreos meant: lol Jan 28 13:18:52 though DocScrutinizer knows more about this Jan 28 13:19:04 DocScrutinizer, ping, I need UI suggestions for hostmode :P Jan 28 13:19:06 * DocScrutinizer yawns Jan 28 13:19:24 Next I need to integrate Qml widgets into my new columbus ux Jan 28 13:19:27 the old n95 prompted asking if the plugged in device was either a headset or tv-stand. I used to tinker on that hours on end plugging and unplugging repetitively Jan 28 13:19:43 Well, I should probably finish v1, first, :D Jan 28 13:19:47 MohammadAG: you remember 26. ? shall I pastebin the chanlog of #mhd? Jan 28 13:19:57 DocScrutinizer, that's not the point Jan 28 13:20:02 MohammadAG: or is there some other problem with suggestions? Jan 28 13:20:08 should I make the widgets scrollable in the UI Jan 28 13:20:13 should I get rid of buttons, etc Jan 28 13:20:25 bbl Jan 28 13:21:21 MohammadAG: you don't know of a nice N900-borne rapid prototyping tool for qt GUI? Jan 28 13:21:38 http://i55.tinypic.com/28i259z.jpg Jan 28 13:21:50 I'm thinking of dumping the numbers Jan 28 13:22:03 I am not sure I understand what you are saying ... when I plug in headphones, NOTHING works, not only mic, nothing. By "using different plugin" you mean using some conversion to headphone micless jack? Jan 28 13:22:37 plug the headset into a female to male adapter, and plug the male end in the N900 Jan 28 13:22:43 the headphone will work, the mic won't Jan 28 13:22:49 alterego: it's handled by resistance of third contact from tip to GND Jan 28 13:23:04 hmm, yeah how's the progress with USB host mode? working yet? Jan 28 13:23:05 then getting rid of the title Jan 28 13:23:07 mic=2kR Jan 28 13:23:15 MohammadAG: will try Jan 28 13:23:21 Funnyface, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 Jan 28 13:23:38 dunno about video/AV, either it's 1k, or 10k Jan 28 13:24:56 brilliant :P Jan 28 13:25:19 next step is charging + USB host at the same time then I guess. lol' Jan 28 13:25:47 Funnyface: eh? Jan 28 13:26:03 well they already made the impossible possible so why not? ^^ Jan 28 13:26:11 Funnyface, already done Jan 28 13:26:42 Funnyface: see this very thread, my 3rd last post Jan 28 13:27:43 it's basically as simple as boostoff; charger; Jan 28 13:28:48 MohammadAG: I don't get it. Did you ignore my suggestions for this version, or was I fuzzy as always? Jan 28 13:29:16 I can imagine someone plugging in a TV, and a USB hub with all sorts of USB devices hooked up to it ^^ Jan 28 13:29:24 DocScrutinizer, hmm, no, you weren't Jan 28 13:29:33 DocScrutinizer, just lemme check up on everything Jan 28 13:29:41 speed detection can be auto by jrbme Jan 28 13:29:44 mouse, keyboard, printer, USB NIC Jan 28 13:29:53 so I need to have auto manual = high/full/low, right? Jan 28 13:29:56 MohammadAG: upper left: "speed" -> like clicking system menu-profile Jan 28 13:30:13 N8 has bluetooth 3 doesn't it? Jan 28 13:30:18 alterego, yes Jan 28 13:30:32 295kbps between the laptop and the N8 Jan 28 13:30:35 MohammadAG: upper right: vbus, same thing, just (on, assisted, manually) Jan 28 13:30:40 cool, lets hope N9 has it :) Jan 28 13:30:47 it does :P Jan 28 13:30:53 Hah Jan 28 13:31:01 Yes I forgot you had one :P Jan 28 13:31:13 on selecting assisted or manually, a second menu pops up to select Ampere to charge Jan 28 13:31:18 DocScrutinizer, ah, so not a radio button like the one in the screenshot above Jan 28 13:31:28 Got a couple of new (small) app ideas, gonna this time do an Ovi release. Jan 28 13:31:43 alterego, fart apps? Jan 28 13:32:07 MohammadAG: middle: one large button "START" Jan 28 13:32:08 nope Jan 28 13:32:25 is the phone capable of supplying 500mA btw? Jan 28 13:32:31 200m Jan 28 13:32:31 Funnyface: no Jan 28 13:32:32 A Jan 28 13:32:38 ok Jan 28 13:32:40 I thought 250? Jan 28 13:32:52 5V @ 200mA Jan 28 13:32:59 you mixed both numbers Jan 28 13:33:00 :P Jan 28 13:33:04 Heh Jan 28 13:33:14 Or I'm mixing up OTG spec ;) Jan 28 13:33:23 nope Jan 28 13:33:26 isn't OTG spec 20mA? Jan 28 13:33:26 How is jrbme coming along? Jan 28 13:33:33 I might be wrong Jan 28 13:33:38 sitting here, reading manpages Jan 28 13:33:42 but the N8 doesn't charge the N900 Jan 28 13:33:46 I seriously want usb host + charging Jan 28 13:33:54 and helping MohammadAG to specify the GUI for it Jan 28 13:33:56 actually, it does, for some time, then the N900 shows Not Charging Jan 28 13:34:08 meanwhile coding every now and then Jan 28 13:34:12 well "coding" Jan 28 13:34:17 * MohammadAG tries to get concept up Jan 28 13:35:20 * alterego wonders how safe strobing the flashlight would be Jan 28 13:35:35 OTG spec is like 8mA iirc Jan 28 13:35:44 for certain operation modes Jan 28 13:35:57 otherwise unspecified Jan 28 13:36:29 alterego: for your eyes? NOT Jan 28 13:36:50 in flashlight mode, it shouldn't be bad Jan 28 13:36:55 I guess Jan 28 13:37:12 flashlight mode (aka 50mA) is ok Jan 28 13:37:26 alterego, VU flashlight? Jan 28 13:37:33 you mustn't use flash mode (300mA?) Jan 28 13:37:37 then make a motor controlled colour overlay changer Jan 28 13:37:49 then we can have a mini disco ball Jan 28 13:38:19 the fire a few USB rockets with glitter Jan 28 13:41:41 Yeah, might try that, would be interested to know how fast I can make it strobe (in flashlight mode) Jan 28 13:42:01 too fast Jan 28 13:42:07 DocScrutinizer, so something like http://i54.tinypic.com/3ybs0.jpg ? Jan 28 13:42:24 alterego, enough to make a bat start using columbus Jan 28 13:42:33 alterego: if you want to kill the LED, then try how fast it goes Jan 28 13:42:42 DocScrutinizer: heh Jan 28 13:42:51 It's a bad idea I know Jan 28 13:43:02 there's an app for it on symbian actually Jan 28 13:43:06 Ensure a duty cycle of ~1/10th or so at full power, and you should be OK Jan 28 13:43:08 But Symbian has a strobe app ^.^ Jan 28 13:43:31 The driver does not protect from multiple sequential flashes with a duty cycle approaching 100% Jan 28 13:43:34 you can kill it Jan 28 13:43:46 would that get me arrested? Jan 28 13:43:59 DocScrutinizer, fyi, it's ugly atm Jan 28 13:44:08 MohammadAG: almost- just for the layout: move the Ampere button first row, and make vbus and ampere bot 1/4 width Jan 28 13:45:40 maybe make the start button square and ¿¿red??, and left aligned. and use the right huge empty space for status textscroll Jan 28 13:46:19 so like this? http://i53.tinypic.com/2itmxeb.jpg (it's very ugly tbh :P) Jan 28 13:47:27 not 1/3 1/3 1/3. I thought like 1/2, 5/16, 3/16 Jan 28 13:51:39 Weird, I just did a ctrl+n expecting it to automatically open a new contact page from the desktop Jan 28 13:57:15 oh wow @ the topic... "Problem is I have absolutely no backup of my data." Jan 28 13:57:26 on an overclocked device... Jan 28 13:59:42 DocScrutinizer: pardon me for picking up on the end of a conversation, but was what is and isn't safe for the flash LED being discussed? Jan 28 14:00:46 (i'm in the process of trying to write an app to play around with fcam, and want to know if it's possible for an error to damage anything Jan 28 14:03:22 is there a wiki page or something documenting what it's OK to ask the flash to do? is fcam in fact capable of doing bad things to it? Jan 28 14:05:41 BCMM: there's a max duration for flash of iirc 0.5s. Alas they haven't specified on/off ratio. But I guess flashing every second for 0.5s will rapidly overheat and kill the diodes Jan 28 14:06:16 DocScrutinizer: max duration enforced by? hardware? fcam? Jan 28 14:06:37 and are you basically saying that nobody knows how many times you can fire consecutively without ruining something? Jan 28 14:06:57 is it even capable of firing like that? it doesn't use a capacitor to get taht much current or anything? Jan 28 14:07:16 BCMM: I dunno what fcam can or cant do to flash. But iirc the flash driver chip itself has a timer to limit flash duration. But no heat shutoff or long term on-time counter Jan 28 14:07:52 BCMM: max duration enforced by driver comment :-D Jan 28 14:07:59 DocScrutinizer: i meant, can the hardware really fire again that soon, or is there a cap to recharge? Jan 28 14:08:04 DocScrutinizer: "driver comment"? Jan 28 14:08:13 no cap to recharge Jan 28 14:08:29 not 1/3 1/3 1/3. I thought like 1/2, 5/16, 3/16 Jan 28 14:08:31 I didn't get that Jan 28 14:08:37 you can fire flash like 10/s runing it in 3s Jan 28 14:08:43 ruining Jan 28 14:08:59 sorry, not quite sure i understood that Jan 28 14:09:03 on, 10 times a second? Jan 28 14:09:15 ah, so people have actually ruined them then? Jan 28 14:09:24 MohammadAG: speed button 50% width, vbus 30%, Amp 20% Jan 28 14:09:38 BCMM: not afaik Jan 28 14:10:04 anyway, there basically isn't data on what is safe? Jan 28 14:10:20 no, just a comment in driver source Jan 28 14:10:39 plus empiric data from SpeedEvil Jan 28 14:10:59 DocScrutinizer: oh, you mean there is a comment in the driver source saying "don't fire for me than .5s even though this driver will support that"? Jan 28 14:11:18 something along that line Jan 28 14:11:23 i should probably just read it myself... where can i get said source? Jan 28 14:11:51 err, maybe wiki has a pointer, under LEDs or sth Jan 28 14:12:35 im considering getting a n900 for some development and to use as my everyday phone. i read that maemo is not actively developed anymore, and that meegoo is the new thing. will meegoo run on n900 without any obvious downsides (same battery life, same performance, same functionality etc) Jan 28 14:12:55 SpeedEvil: "Ensure a duty cycle of ~1/10th or so at full power" - does that mean "full power one-tenth of the time"? Jan 28 14:12:58 I doubt it Jan 28 14:13:17 magnus_: anyway for now that's defnitely not given Jan 28 14:13:39 magnus: google? =) Jan 28 14:13:40 BCMM: yes Jan 28 14:13:44 * RST38h hides Jan 28 14:14:06 RST38h, well, i found n900 as "supported hw" on meego homepage. but it doesn't really say how well it works now Jan 28 14:14:09 Doc: actually, do we have a relevant wiki extract in the bot somewhere? Jan 28 14:14:12 oh, that isn't bad at all Jan 28 14:14:29 that'd almost be usable for strobe photography, with extreme caution Jan 28 14:14:32 so, does anyone here run meego on n900? and whats your experience with it? (using it as your primary phone) Jan 28 14:14:35 RST38h: ?? Jan 28 14:14:51 anyone know if fcam supports low-power flashes? Jan 28 14:15:00 Doc: the bot responds to certain keywords with their definitions Jan 28 14:15:16 magnus_, I booted it after installing in a micro sd card, it was completely unusable in its current state Jan 28 14:15:17 Doc: I was hoping it includes basic information on the state of N900 Meego Jan 28 14:15:34 ~listkeys meego Jan 28 14:15:35 Factoid search of 'meego' by key (6): meego-obsolete ;; meego-kernel-contrib ;; meego-n900 ;; haveameegomeeting ;; meego ;; smeegol. Jan 28 14:15:40 there was a new release since I believe, so ymmv I guess Jan 28 14:16:11 I hear the new SGX driver should be in soon Jan 28 14:16:16 aha Jan 28 14:16:32 ~meego-n900 Jan 28 14:16:32 [meego-n900] grab image from repo.meego.com (meego-handset-armv7l-n900) and follow http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC Jan 28 14:16:46 ~meego Jan 28 14:16:46 i heard meego is http://meego.com an opensource distribution for netbooks and mobile devices Jan 28 14:17:02 ~meego-obsolete Jan 28 14:17:03 somebody said maemo-obsolete was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 Jan 28 14:17:33 ~literal meego-obsolete Jan 28 14:17:34 "meego-obsolete" is "see maemo-obsolete" Jan 28 14:17:58 ~factinfo meego-obsolete Jan 28 14:17:59 meego-obsolete -- created by DocScrutinizer <~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Sun Apr 25 05:57:05 2010 (278 days); it has been requested once, last by RST38h, 56s ago. Jan 28 14:18:11 ~forget meego-obsolete Jan 28 14:18:12 DocScrutinizer: i forgot meego-obsolete Jan 28 14:18:13 magnus_ you want to read the thread at ~literal meego-obsolete Jan 28 14:18:21 thanks Jan 28 14:18:24 how much of the hardware in n900 is proprietary? Jan 28 14:18:31 magnus_ you want to read the thread at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 Jan 28 14:18:59 magnus_: errr Jan 28 14:19:11 magnus_: define proprietary Jan 28 14:19:21 closed source, no datasheets Jan 28 14:19:34 hmm, almost nothing Jan 28 14:19:39 modem for sure Jan 28 14:19:54 BT, WiFi Jan 28 14:19:59 afaik Jan 28 14:20:14 screen Jan 28 14:20:50 wifi is standard afaik Jan 28 14:20:53 gpu? Jan 28 14:21:03 imagetech openvr Jan 28 14:21:08 http://i53.tinypic.com/978zdx.jpg DocScrutinizer like this? Jan 28 14:21:36 magnus_: :nod: gpu as well I think Jan 28 14:21:40 magnus_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N900_Hardware Jan 28 14:21:52 * RST38h cackles, whispering "every extra button added to this gui doubles the opportunity for a lemming to get it wrong" Jan 28 14:21:57 MohammadAG: :-D Jan 28 14:22:26 sure that's what you want? :P Jan 28 14:22:34 RST38h: that's the reason why we reduce their number Jan 28 14:22:47 Because switching to QMaemo5ValueButtons will be an arse to implement Jan 28 14:22:52 MohammadAG: for first row of buttons yes Jan 28 14:22:59 (and I liked the one click radio buttons :P) Jan 28 14:23:15 Doc: No way to leave just one? Or make it a background daemon with no UI? Jan 28 14:23:22 MohammadAG: ping me later and I'll sketch a UI for you :P Jan 28 14:23:47 rst38h, it doesn't have to, really. the trick is to have the buttons do nothing! Jan 28 14:23:51 MohammadAG: you won't manage to find space for what I call radiobuttons, for this number of alternatives Jan 28 14:24:35 DocScrutinizer, I will, I already added scrolling support :P Jan 28 14:24:40 scroll down for more options Jan 28 14:24:43 RST38h: nope, we need to select if we want vbus boost or charging. And I'm not sure auto-speed will ever pan out right Jan 28 14:25:05 like applets in Settings Jan 28 14:25:05 oh Jan 28 14:25:19 (like the phone settings app for example) Jan 28 14:25:26 MohammadAG: so we would need to have start button on top, and radio buttons at bottom - no good idea Jan 28 14:25:41 or radio buttons at top, and start button on bottom Jan 28 14:25:48 no Jan 28 14:25:53 DocScrutinizer, ok, so we are not free to compile any kernel we want on the N900? we must use a certain version and then bring in a few pre-compiled kernel module binaries? Jan 28 14:26:02 you'd need to scroll to hit start. unbearable Jan 28 14:26:15 these are radio buttons btw http://i55.tinypic.com/28i259z.jpg Jan 28 14:26:33 well Jan 28 14:26:38 I could make "Start" always visible Jan 28 14:26:44 and the parts in between scrollable Jan 28 14:27:53 MohammadAG: that sounds really ugly and clumsy now. But it you think it can't be implemented otherwise Jan 28 14:28:24 I just think the current concept is not hildon-y Jan 28 14:29:27 meh, why not? click system-menu -> connections Jan 28 14:30:50 Meanwhile: A study (abstract) from Penn State shows that a lot of teachers some 60 percent are reluctant to teach evolutionary theory in the classroom either because they fear controversy or they just aren't comfortable with the material (as not every biology teacher was a science major). Jan 28 14:31:32 or "new contact" "handy" Jan 28 14:31:32 I was also thinking or getting rid of the title + help button Jan 28 14:31:46 title is window title, help button can be in menu Jan 28 14:31:50 s/handy/mobile/ Jan 28 14:31:51 DocScrutinizer meant: or "new contact" "mobile" Jan 28 14:31:53 ? Jan 28 14:32:15 MohammadAG: agreed Jan 28 14:32:21 Mohammad, Doc: there is a special kind of button in Maemo5 that has a title and a subtitle. You can use it as a toggle button, if needed Jan 28 14:32:46 Not sure if it is going to be hildony enough to you, but many builtin apps seem to use these buttons Jan 28 14:33:20 the field type tags in "new contact" are exactly what I think we need here Jan 28 14:33:38 need a code sample? Jan 28 14:33:58 *shrug* Jan 28 14:34:10 it's mohammad doing the wizardry Jan 28 14:34:37 ok, I guess he will be able to find it Jan 28 14:35:13 the whole idea is h-e-n GUI is usually a one-click thing, as setup for speed and vbus is persistent Jan 28 14:36:08 the new contact thing is QMaemo5ValueButton Jan 28 14:36:34 any reason for doing this little dialog in qt? Jan 28 14:36:53 bbl Jan 28 14:36:55 yeah, MeeGo :P Jan 28 14:37:34 DocScrutinizer, http://maemoide.nokia.com/fremantle/topic/org.maemo.mica.maemosdk.help.api.cpp.qt46/html/images/maemo5-listpickselector-example.png Jan 28 14:39:31 Mohammad: Do you understand that Meego is not going to have QMaemo5* classes? Jan 28 14:40:20 yes Jan 28 14:40:26 obviously lol Jan 28 14:40:43 a reason I want to go with radio buttons Jan 28 14:43:11 meh, open a new screen with a flock of buttons then Jan 28 14:43:20 in meego Jan 28 14:43:26 fsck meego Jan 28 14:45:08 DocScrutinizer: cool! thx for the link :) ; Is there something like a project page? I think you folks might save yourselves from a lot of annoying questions by perhaps linking the most informative posts in a sort of overview-webpage - given the turn from 'hostmode won't ever work' to 'might eventually work/will soon work' to 'working' there's a lot of clutter making it hard to figure out the state of this :) Jan 28 14:45:15 hi, i install uboot-pr13 in my n900; now without a sdcard if i configure a alarm in maemo and poweroff the phone, this not poweon.... is normal? is a bug of uboot-pr13 ? Jan 28 14:45:32 DocScrutinizer: context was: h-e-n charging question ;) Jan 28 15:00:56 dotblank, is groove broken? Jan 28 15:01:37 is it? Jan 28 15:01:39 let me Jan 28 15:01:41 see Jan 28 15:01:45 returns 0 results Jan 28 15:02:03 but no errors in stderr/out Jan 28 15:02:10 yea Jan 28 15:02:13 thats oodd Jan 28 15:03:11 looks like they changed something Jan 28 15:03:38 i'm guessing you could figure it out :P Jan 28 15:05:50 I think they updated a client version string Jan 28 15:06:01 ugh more wireshark needed Jan 28 15:06:10 lol no API? Jan 28 15:06:21 its all reversed engineered Jan 28 15:06:42 wow Jan 28 15:06:46 good job I guess Jan 28 15:06:51 I thought there was an API Jan 28 15:06:54 meh.. its pretty ugly code Jan 28 15:06:58 well there is Jan 28 15:07:12 but its lame and requires keys and the like Jan 28 15:07:23 I use the internal API and it acts like the webclient Jan 28 15:15:37 Hey, does someone also have this Menu at the right top http://tsuyo.de/files/Screenshot-20110128-161148.png ? Jan 28 15:15:47 It opens when i shake my phone a bi Jan 28 15:15:48 t* Jan 28 15:16:59 lol at "internal ip" Jan 28 15:17:08 also ._. at the overclock menu Jan 28 15:17:22 Yeah. i was to lazy to change the height Jan 28 15:17:35 or, to lazy to change this cmd Jan 28 15:18:02 Whats the problem with the overclock menu ? Jan 28 15:18:07 the overclock Jan 28 15:18:25 i suppose it's ok if you can buy a new n900 in two months Jan 28 15:18:28 Well, that should be my problem if i overclock my phone or not. Jan 28 15:18:49 Its already a year old Jan 28 15:19:03 always overclocked? lucky Jan 28 15:19:48 No, not always. If i need more power, i set it higher, if i need less power, i set the limit down Jan 28 15:20:44 you "need" more power Jan 28 15:20:44 ? Jan 28 15:22:07 If i need more power. Yes. Jan 28 15:22:30 But how do i remove this menu? Jan 28 15:34:33 * jonwil wonders whether the Nokia guys fixing his phone are going to care what software he installed (i.e. whether there is software that would void the warranty if you installed it) Jan 28 15:34:57 My guess is they wont even know Jan 28 15:35:13 since it appears as though a complete software reinstall is one of the first steps they try for any problem Jan 28 15:35:15 * kerio wonders why jonwil didn't push "delete EVERYTHING!1!1" before giving his n900 away Jan 28 15:35:35 * jonwil didnt think about it Jan 28 15:35:45 I did backup everything Jan 28 15:35:47 you gave your N900 about it? Jan 28 15:35:56 I gave my N900 to Nokia Care Jan 28 15:36:01 ah Jan 28 15:36:05 I thought you sold it Jan 28 15:36:07 to fix my screwed notification LED Jan 28 15:36:24 hmm? Jan 28 15:36:29 what happened to it? Jan 28 15:36:35 it doesn't light up Jan 28 15:37:00 per what others said here (and the fact the front facing camera is also stuffed) it sounds like the cable connecting the 2 halves of the phone is likely to be loose or broken Jan 28 15:37:43 and did the kb light up? Jan 28 15:37:51 yes, the KB lights up fine Jan 28 15:38:06 we ran all the low-level tests last night (sending stuff directly to /proc entries) Jan 28 15:38:54 in any case I dont think anything I did would be considered "warranty voiding" on the N900 (given that everything I installed either came from extras or from ovi store) Jan 28 16:05:24 how to capture ipdump from n900? any tool? Jan 28 16:06:16 ipdump? Jan 28 16:15:46 tcpdump?? Jan 28 16:16:11 tshark? Jan 28 16:16:22 wireshark? Jan 28 16:16:39 wtf ipdump? Jan 28 16:21:28 SpeedEvil, http logs, incoming/outgoing. Are you sayin ipdump itself a tool or something? :) Jan 28 16:21:34 DocScrutinizer51: tcpdump? Jan 28 16:22:04 alterego, so I install tcpdump on my n900 and start it in background then try my use case? Jan 28 16:22:13 yes Jan 28 16:22:21 Are you using an N900 today? Jan 28 16:22:27 alterego, yes for a change :) Jan 28 16:22:35 Good ;) Jan 28 16:22:51 makulkar: check wireshark/tshark Jan 28 16:23:23 DocScrutinizer51: ah I dint know they run on n900! will try that as well Jan 28 16:23:56 makulkar: they do, but it's a bit fiddly, I'd use tcpdump then load the logs in wireshark on your desktop Jan 28 16:24:43 alterego, ah ok.. I see tcpdump running, I just redirect the output to a cap file? Jan 28 16:25:44 makulkar: exactly, then you can view/analyse that file in wireshark on a desktop :) Jan 28 17:21:51 so, hey there Jan 28 17:22:13 just wondering which board would be best for showing some code Jan 28 17:22:19 like poc code Jan 28 18:21:43 hi *. there is a maemo-geolocation and a microb-geolocation - which one should I use? Jan 28 18:28:00 moo lcuk Jan 28 18:32:53 hmm...massive lcuk attack Jan 28 18:56:15 oh, I meant to ask about this last night... in scratchbox, my libtool is sticking an X in front of every line of its input so nothing works. It's quite weird. I can show you pastebin if you'd like. Is this a known issue? Jan 28 18:58:51 marnanel: hey, i've had that. outside scratchbox. can't remember what i tracked it down to :( Jan 28 18:59:17 :( thanks anyway Jan 28 18:59:48 i think it was some kind of autogoats version mismatch Jan 28 19:00:11 (It seems to be a regex called Xsed which is going haywire and applying in places it's not supposed to. But I don't know how I'd begin to go about fixing that without pulling autotools to pieces.) Jan 28 19:04:32 * marnanel asks on #gnome-hackers and is told "Yeah, I've seen that, I work around it by building all my makefiles by hand" Jan 28 19:04:35 Oh lovely. Jan 28 20:01:17 i'm writing a video player and while playing a video phone screensaver comes up.. how do i disable it? any API? Jan 28 20:55:39 has anyone tried that game gripper for the N900 available from here? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Nokia-N900-Game-accessory-Game-Gripper-SNES-/180542418361?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item2a092aadb9 Jan 28 20:56:05 I am thinking of getting one, not because I need it that much, but simply because it looks awesome.. Jan 28 20:56:23 lol Jan 28 20:56:28 *bookmarking* Jan 28 20:56:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9D8cedGr30 here's a video of it Jan 28 21:02:05 hello all, i'm impressed by nokia n900. i don't have it yet, but i'm very impressed by the phone and and it's OS. but i have one thing disturbing my head. i was told that nokia dropped support and development for maemo, this means it's only community support now? how about further development, software updates and bug fixes? Jan 28 21:02:54 compengi it will stil lbe there.. it will be called meego Jan 28 21:03:22 compengi: you can't be impressed until you have it. Jan 28 21:03:38 makulkar: MeeGo isn't supported on N900 Jan 28 21:03:56 actually it's also becomiing hard to acquire N900 Jan 28 21:04:08 compengi: if history says anything, N900 won't get any further development, except for some fraction of community stuff Jan 28 21:04:10 makulkar: I replied to your question in #MeeGo Jan 28 21:04:39 there are unofficial meego and android ports for it afaik, but I haven't tested them myself Jan 28 21:04:43 compengi: also, since Maemo is mostly closed source, the community *can't* support the OS Jan 28 21:04:53 Funnyface: keyword: unofficial Jan 28 21:05:08 luke-jr, i've seen many videos from maemo.nokia.com/videos and was very impressed, actually i've been looking for video from youtube few days already Jan 28 21:05:23 oh Jan 28 21:05:25 my experience with ports like that is that not all the hardware will work properly, and that trying to get it working with your own language and keyboard layout turns out to be much harder than expected Jan 28 21:05:33 very very sad :/ Jan 28 21:05:37 compengi: for example, N8x0 has basically been dead and bitrotting at fast pace since N900 was released Jan 28 21:05:55 The meego port is actually done mostly by people paid by nokia Jan 28 21:06:07 however, unlike N8x0, N900 *does* have 90% of hardware drivers open Jan 28 21:06:18 so *replacing* Maemo is possible Jan 28 21:06:27 luke-jr, I saw some thread/blog about n900 running meego? Jan 28 21:06:34 why nokia dropped support for the os? Jan 28 21:06:39 makulkar: if you like CLI :p Jan 28 21:06:45 compengi: because Nokia does that. Jan 28 21:06:48 Nothing has replaced the N900 yet Jan 28 21:06:54 commercial purposes Jan 28 21:07:08 alterego, exactly Jan 28 21:07:15 compengi: they see no financial gain to continuing support Jan 28 21:07:29 And unlike the N8x0 and 770 the N900 is powerful enough to have a _bit_ more longevity Jan 28 21:07:32 compengi, their idea is that when it meets the specs (which are secret and stupid), it's done and completed and time to work on next thing Jan 28 21:07:37 I'd be happy if they'd just release an official meego ROM to be honest Jan 28 21:07:54 luke-jr, this os could have replaced symbian probably Jan 28 21:08:32 compengi: not totally, people usually don't like it to have their OS 'open' *pointing at iphone and all the other closed roms of android* Jan 28 21:08:35 compengi: Maemo isn't a phone OS. Symbian is. Jan 28 21:08:39 compengi: they don't really compete. Jan 28 21:09:01 ShadowJK: Maemo N900 never met the specs Jan 28 21:09:07 ShadowJK: it can't record DVD quality video Jan 28 21:09:52 Depends which dvd mastering studio you compare with :-) Jan 28 21:09:58 but n900 with maemo could complete iphone Jan 28 21:09:59 mikki-kun: that's bullshit, people don't care Jan 28 21:10:04 no DVD video has dropped frames all over Jan 28 21:10:20 compengi: no. again, iPhone is a phone SO Jan 28 21:10:21 OS* Jan 28 21:10:24 alterego: they care if it reads iphone =p Jan 28 21:10:26 mikki-kun: or if they do it's way to early to tell. especially considering Android (open) is open. Jan 28 21:10:50 luke-jr, yes they do, I have fixed videos like that from DVDs I've bought :-) Jan 28 21:11:05 ShadowJK: … Jan 28 21:11:20 compengi: if you expect N900/Mameo to be a phone, you will be sorely disappointed when you get it Jan 28 21:11:33 luke-jr, even with the features on maemo? Jan 28 21:11:34 alterego: well, it might be 'open', but there are still firmware which is closed source and even some android phonemakers won't show the source of the ROMs... Jan 28 21:11:44 luke-jr, i don't Jan 28 21:12:01 compengi: people who buy iPhones want a phone. Jan 28 21:12:02 but i would like it to be a continues project Jan 28 21:12:22 compengi: you realize N900 doesn't have 1 GB RAM, right? Jan 28 21:12:27 luke-jr: hey, it is more of a phone than anything else... you can have several sip-accounts and skype running while using your 3g-dataplan and receive phone calls Jan 28 21:12:42 luke-jr, not really. people who buy iphone want a game console Jan 28 21:13:04 i haven't seen someone using iphone for calling Jan 28 21:13:10 … Jan 28 21:13:21 web surfing and gaming Jan 28 21:13:27 that's all what they do Jan 28 21:13:38 compengi: you realize N900 doesn't have 1 GB RAM, right? Jan 28 21:13:48 iphone does? Jan 28 21:13:49 Usually it happens when their source has been VFR and then at some point mastered for NTSC, they tend to just drop frames for PAL sometimes, which more or less gets you half the lines from a random frame and other half of the lines from another frame.. Jan 28 21:14:18 compengi: no, but Nokia claims N900 does implicitly Jan 28 21:14:27 compengi: N900 ships with 256 MB RAM + 768 MB swap Jan 28 21:14:53 compengi: Maemo is so bloated that it *requires* that swap or it won't even boot. Jan 28 21:15:09 mine boots fine :) Jan 28 21:15:25 luke-jr, who buys iphone doesn't want to know what's in it Jan 28 21:15:28 swap use is at 0 right after boot Jan 28 21:15:34 it's all about a cool phone i guess Jan 28 21:16:08 compengi: for comparison, KDE on N900 uses less memory than Maemo ;) Jan 28 21:16:16 cool Jan 28 21:16:40 mikki-kun: don't run back on your argument, you were just saying people prefered closed. Jan 28 21:16:46 Make you mind up ffs Jan 28 21:17:14 luke-jr, i'm very disappointed that maemo development stopped Jan 28 21:17:49 does it lack features that they didn't develop? Jan 28 21:18:12 sure, it lacks alot of crap people want Jan 28 21:18:16 there are always more features that people want, the question is more: are there features you need or can get elsewhere Jan 28 21:18:29 compengi: I think MMS is a big one Jan 28 21:18:42 i don't mean that, i've read earlier about drivers Jan 28 21:18:47 Hi Jan 28 21:18:51 aren't they all developed? Jan 28 21:19:02 like 3g video calls (which do not exist outside europe), 3g media sharing, ptt and all sorts of gsm/3g protocols :P Jan 28 21:19:04 compengi: there is no "developed" Jan 28 21:19:13 compengi: software always requires maintenance. Jan 28 21:19:23 for example, like cars. Jan 28 21:19:28 you could always improve things... Jan 28 21:19:51 * ShadowJK has been planning to add that automatic frequency hop feature to fmtx driver Jan 28 21:20:01 sometimes 2022 when i find free time Jan 28 21:20:05 compengi: the big one is the 3D acceleration driver Jan 28 21:20:18 compengi: nobody who can maintain it, cares to Jan 28 21:20:34 luke-jr, wow Jan 28 21:20:36 and very sad Jan 28 21:20:37 why Jan 28 21:20:57 fmtx auto freq hop? how is the receiver supposed to know the new freq? Jan 28 21:21:15 nox-, rds Jan 28 21:21:19 aah Jan 28 21:21:28 nice idea Jan 28 21:21:43 compengi: because the only ones who can maintain it are ImgTec and Nokia, and neither see a way to make money doing it Jan 28 21:21:56 nor do they see a reason to let someone else Jan 28 21:22:40 and their current version doesn't work with maemo's kernel or xorg.. Jan 28 21:23:09 ShadowJK: what current version? O.o Jan 28 21:23:18 (and performance is probably still sucky in their current version) Jan 28 21:23:21 * luke-jr wasn't aware ImgTec maintained any platform-neutral binaries Jan 28 21:23:22 the one in meego Jan 28 21:23:51 hmm Jan 28 21:24:05 I suppose MeeGo's drivers might be platform-netural to a degree Jan 28 21:24:17 so long as ImgTec doesn't abandon the older gfx chipset Jan 28 21:24:23 well Jan 28 21:24:50 there's a "board config" file apparently. probably a compile time option for the closed source driver Jan 28 21:24:53 iiuc Jan 28 21:29:54 luke-jr: what does imgtec have to do with ia32 architecture? Jan 28 21:30:03 Or nVidia mobile chipsets? Jan 28 21:30:16 alterego: you tell me Jan 28 21:30:20 Where's your "driver independence" there? Jan 28 21:30:33 I was talking about N900 Jan 28 21:30:41 Oh, really. Jan 28 21:30:44 Okay Jan 28 21:31:22 Nokia have sgx sources doesn't directly have anything to do with imgtec tbh Jan 28 21:31:33 More to do with TI afaik Jan 28 21:32:30 alterego: the z-series atoms have an Intel GMA500 graphics core, which is actually an ImgTec PowerVR as well... Jan 28 21:32:46 alterego: so, er, the same drivers could probably be made to work, and probably be better than Intel's :P Jan 28 21:32:52 luke-jr, does it mean that they manufactured such a phone with all those features just for fun? Jan 28 21:33:15 compengi: just to sell i t. Jan 28 21:33:23 compengi: wait, what phone? Jan 28 21:33:28 Robot101: if you say so, but those aren't exactly in the meego spec Jan 28 21:33:35 MeeGo says GLES2 Jan 28 21:33:55 yes, it's a vendor decision how to achieve that Jan 28 21:33:57 who cares about device drivers along as they have that interface? Jan 28 21:34:05 Exactly Jan 28 21:34:21 alterego: anyone with a clue? :P Jan 28 21:34:39 luke-jr: m'hmm ... Jan 28 21:34:40 so MeeGo won't have drivers, Linux might (hahaha that'll be the day), people like Nokia or Intel or TI or whoever will have to provide them and bodge them in Jan 28 21:34:43 yay Jan 28 21:34:57 Robot101: where's the bodge? Jan 28 21:35:21 luke-jr, n900 of course Jan 28 21:35:27 You make a device, you build drivers for the device. I think you're not clear about what MeeGo is .. Jan 28 21:35:29 compengi: N900 isn't a phone. Jan 28 21:35:48 luke-jr, smartphone? Jan 28 21:35:58 mobile computer Jan 28 21:36:00 compengi: …no Jan 28 21:36:04 Corsac++ Jan 28 21:36:14 luke-jr, even better Jan 28 21:36:37 compengi: yeah, except N900's keyboard sucks to type on Jan 28 21:37:15 so why to manufacture such thing with so much hardware in it, for later to drop it's support and never even write the rest of the drivers Jan 28 21:38:17 luke-jr, not so bad. Jan 28 21:38:29 compengi: you are trying to apply common sense to Nokia Jan 28 21:38:33 compengi: now come on Jan 28 21:38:36 GAN900: worse than N810, which is worse than C760 Jan 28 21:38:41 compengi: what drivers are missing? Jan 28 21:38:46 compengi: because it makes a profit Jan 28 21:38:54 luke-jr, really? I can't stand the N810 keyboard. Jan 28 21:39:01 * alterego sighs Jan 28 21:39:07 GAN900: after using N900, N810 seems like a dream Jan 28 21:39:08 I'm not in love with the N900 board, but it's pretty workable. Jan 28 21:39:13 Interesting Jan 28 21:39:30 I hated N810's kb as long as it was my primary handheld Jan 28 21:39:34 * javispedro likes the N810 kb better too. Jan 28 21:39:46 but now I've seen it can be much worse XD Jan 28 21:39:59 Weirdly, I find the N900 easier than the N900, but it seems to be 50/50 in peoples opinions Jan 28 21:40:01 but I'm biased as the n810's is my regional layout while n900 is us. Jan 28 21:40:10 *US. Jan 28 21:40:21 javispedro: well that's just silly :P Jan 28 21:40:37 You're basing the keypad on the layout? Jan 28 21:40:52 obviously not :P Jan 28 21:42:25 Best keyboard was E70 :D Jan 28 21:44:01 compengi: think of this, Nokia had it all. They produced to first smartphone which was not even called one. Their phones were coveted after. The Nokia 6210i is the best monochrome phone ever made. And so on. In the last 5-6 years they worked insanely hard to lose everything. Jan 28 21:44:45 And they had a brilliant marketing strategy to make people want their SUV-sized smartphone :) Jan 28 21:45:12 hey it was less than half a kilo! Jan 28 21:45:35 probable stolen N900 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330524354454&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:DE:1123 Jan 28 21:45:43 anyone in germany missing one? Jan 28 21:45:49 (they gave them for free to people that sold actual SUVs and sports cars, so then people who saw the salespeople using those phones everyone wanted them as a penis extended, ignoring the silly size.. much like real SUVs) ;P Jan 28 21:46:51 pupnik_: my german skills are rusty but doesnt it say original packaging just the charger is not original Jan 28 21:47:11 The fans of that line of phones are still waiting for nokia to make the next communicator class device :P Jan 28 21:47:13 ShadowJK: i never knew that Jan 28 21:47:28 The first ones in that line has x86 CPUs too :P Jan 28 21:47:37 ShadowJK: 386 Jan 28 21:47:40 before they switched to symbian and arm Jan 28 21:47:48 ShadowJK: and isnt the E7 the next? Jan 28 21:47:55 it's a bit complicated - if anyone in the area has lost a n900 pm me Jan 28 21:47:55 pupnik_, why would make you think it's stolen Jan 28 21:48:32 s/why/what Jan 28 21:49:09 are you the seller compengi ? Jan 28 21:49:31 What happened to C6-01 anyway Jan 28 21:49:32 pupnik_, hehe, nope, just wondering Jan 28 21:49:37 * ShadowJK hasn't seen it anywhere for sale Jan 28 21:52:36 compengi: at least google will match 'stolen n900' to that listing now, so my work is done Jan 28 21:53:08 good point :D Jan 28 21:57:33 kind of interesting : Jan 28 21:57:34 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Open-Pandora-Handheld-Linux-UMPC-PDA-BRAND-NEW-/220729188007?pt=Video_Games&hash=item33647c1ea7 Jan 28 21:59:42 lol Jan 28 21:59:55 more expensive than retail.. Jan 28 22:00:01 quite Jan 28 22:00:11 * javispedro bets those are some bots at work Jan 28 22:00:27 no actually several have gone for over 500 Jan 28 22:02:53 pupnik_: you think it's stolen because it's reserved at 1 EUR Jan 28 22:05:18 no Jan 28 22:05:56 eduroam sucks on linux Jan 28 22:06:01 Oh, because I thought that was suspicious by itself :D Jan 28 22:06:10 i have to go Laptop> N900> eduroam Jan 28 22:06:26 Thankfully N900 has usb networking Jan 28 22:42:15 i hope the next device comes soon. with a 4-row keyboard and arrow keys for all layouts. Jan 28 22:43:05 * haltdef is eying up a viliv n5 :x Jan 28 22:46:56 German Ebay seller trying to get $804 for a N900 http://cgi.ebay.de/Nokia-N900-Qwerty-Tastatur-engl-black-/280576271303?pt=DE_Handys_ohne_Vertrag_KM&hash=item4153a623c7 Jan 28 22:47:49 some people are really optimistic Jan 28 22:58:29 well, he has his full name, address, phone number and email address there. you could call and ask him about the price :P Jan 28 23:10:31 hey if someone wants to pay that much, that's fine. The used devices are going for 200-250 right now Jan 28 23:11:03 (euro) Jan 28 23:11:09 UPS One Day Air Jan 28 23:11:15 Going on day 3 now. Jan 28 23:11:35 Probably going to attempt delivery 5 minutes before I get home. Jan 28 23:15:20 ? Jan 28 23:17:08 haha Jan 28 23:19:12 pupnik, waiting for my new lens. :( Jan 28 23:20:17 that sounds like UPS Jan 28 23:23:13 Gotta love unionized low competition industries. Jan 28 23:39:22 pupnik: that's original Nokia shop price - 590EUR Jan 28 23:44:35 eth0 is dead Jan 28 23:44:41 http://www.osnews.com/story/24336/New_Linux_Network_Device_Naming_To_Be_Tested_by_Fedora Jan 28 23:44:50 =) (heehee) Jan 28 23:46:28 does the n900 has a physical shutter? Jan 28 23:47:42 sorry, i mean does it have a physical camera shutter, or does it use a rolling-shutter system? Jan 28 23:49:26 anybody has experience in building the compat-wireless drivers from lxp? Jan 28 23:50:51 i am getting a bunch of "-1 Unknown symbol in module" when insmoding the drivers Jan 28 23:51:14 when i try to insmod my own compiled drivers Jan 28 23:54:46 BCMM: electronic solid state silicon shutter Jan 28 23:55:12 DocScrutinizer: ah. does it "roll"? Jan 28 23:55:24 dunno what you mean Jan 28 23:56:30 DocScrutinizer: does it cut off the entire field at once, or does it progress down the image, creating distortions of moving objects like an iPhone? Jan 28 23:56:35 the sensor chip is resetting and after shutter time reading out the sensor cells Jan 28 23:56:58 I don't know how it works exactly Jan 28 23:57:31 (example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sorenragsdale/3192314056/ ) Jan 28 23:57:57 check the wiki, there's a link to the camera sensor chip Jan 28 23:57:58 BCMM: solid state means there are no movign parts Jan 28 23:58:07 DocScrutinizer: don't worry, i'll just open up my computer and try to photograph the fan :) Jan 28 23:59:07 luke-jr: i phrased the question very badly. i was actually asking whether it suffered rolling-shutter distortions Jan 29 00:01:44 BCMM: I seem to remember the chip is processing the rows sequentially, but I can't tell if it's actually true nor the speed of that process Jan 29 00:03:04 BCMM: see, that's basically a video camera. Still shots are a special mode of operation of this video cam Jan 29 00:03:18 there's no shutter in a classical sense Jan 29 00:04:28 anyway, I guess you should read the datasheet Jan 29 00:11:27 If there are problems with your packages, where are the logs files held? Jan 29 00:36:11 lxp: ping Jan 29 00:36:22 oops, low battery Jan 29 00:37:13 trumee: are you building against the power kernel? Jan 29 00:37:36 MrBawb: yes Jan 29 00:40:29 trumee: do you happen to know which symbol it's complaining about? I think it's in dmesg Jan 29 00:43:30 MrBawb: i have the man himself 'lxp' on the case :) Jan 29 00:44:33 Hello, can i stream audio/video from a laptop to 100 audience ? with simple low internet. Jan 29 00:51:02 how do I undo any manual changes I made to the icon order in the application list? Jan 29 01:00:34 lxp1: ping Jan 29 01:01:16 Dhraakellian, reverse of what you did? heh Jan 29 01:01:37 psycho_oreos: so it's all automatically sorted alphabetically Jan 29 01:02:28 I currently have stuff I manually sorted way back when (after moving some things around) and newer installs that are automatically sorted Jan 29 01:03:02 I'd rather have one A-Z rather than two Jan 29 01:03:06 Dhraakellian, nfi, the lack of categorise or mymenu makes it quite hard :p Jan 29 01:03:20 tanj Jan 29 01:03:23 maybe one needs to poke around via shell Jan 29 01:05:10 * Dhraakellian is currently investigating Marble Jan 29 01:07:18 and hoping it outshines both Mappero and Ovi Maps Jan 29 01:07:35 I'm not sure whether Mappero does routing, but I don't think I ever really figured it out Jan 29 01:07:42 and Ovi Maps, well... Jan 29 01:07:51 I've used it more often, but meh. Jan 29 01:27:26 you could do this on a n900 + mypaint if you had talent http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uJqX6DgOrjY/SxVWwkC8xPI/AAAAAAAAAnM/LxyNX7BnrY4/s1600/Philip+Connard+%28British,+1875-1958%29.jpg Jan 29 01:27:56 apt-get install talent Jan 29 01:44:13 Dhraakellian: check in /home/user/.config/menus/* Jan 29 01:55:40 Dhraakellian: also check appmefo Jan 29 01:57:33 Dhraakellian: sorting of submenus needs to be done in apmefo if you're using it. moving app icons in menus the 1.2 way will break apmefo and you need to start and "enable" it again Jan 29 01:57:59 I don't use apmefo Jan 29 01:58:05 * Dhraakellian fires up vim Jan 29 01:58:29 just delete everything in the section? Jan 29 01:58:36 well, I think the are generic hildon Jan 29 01:59:14 I guess you delete the whole section, incl and Jan 29 02:02:53 Dhraakellian: beware even messing with these files *might* cause problems during next boot **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 29 02:59:56 2011