**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 30 02:59:57 2011
Jan 30 03:39:24 <voltagex> hi, I'm getting massive amounts of lag when my N900 is on my WLAN - upwards of 500ms ping time...
Jan 30 03:39:27 <voltagex> any ideas?
Jan 30 03:39:34 <peregrin> so what is the diff between dbus and gconf?
Jan 30 03:42:13 <pahartik> peregrin: "gconf" is configuration storage database, "dbus" is interprocess communication bus
Jan 30 03:45:23 <peregrin> but dbus is used for runtime configuration, and and gconf changes are signaled to running programs no?
Jan 30 03:46:46 <compengi> did anybody try meego on n900?
Jan 30 03:48:22 <peregrin> does meego use rpm? and reshatisms in general?
Jan 30 03:48:31 <peregrin> *redhatisms
Jan 30 04:03:26 <Kilroo> Hm. I wonder what would happen if one attempted to install the pacman for Arch Mobile on Maemo and start trying to use packages from the Arch Mobile repositories. Assuming Arch Mobile is that far along, that is. I think it is.
Jan 30 04:13:15 <psycho_oreos> voltagex_, is this a recurring thing?
Jan 30 04:15:08 <psycho_oreos> pergrin_, meego does use rpm
Jan 30 04:15:28 <psycho_oreos> compengi, you may want to also ask that same question in #meego as well
Jan 30 04:15:47 <compengi> thanks psycho_oreos
Jan 30 04:15:53 <psycho_oreos> compengi, nw
Jan 30 04:21:57 <esaym153> is there a version of libtheora that has encoding enabled for the n810 available for download anywhere?
Jan 30 06:49:49 <RobbieThe1st> Hey guys, can anyone tell me what libacl1 is used for on the n900?
Jan 30 06:50:33 <RobbieThe1st> Also libattr1
Jan 30 06:50:52 <flux> 2.2.47-2 and 1:2.4.43-1
Jan 30 06:51:15 <RobbieThe1st> No; I mean what applications use them, and what -for-.
Jan 30 06:51:27 <flux> oh, "for" :)
Jan 30 06:51:41 <flux> samba appears to depend on libattr1
Jan 30 06:51:52 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1APzLRJJi8  << if you want some humor later - Doug Stanhope - Word of Mouth (comedy show, 1:20 minutes)
Jan 30 06:52:11 <flux> rsync and samba both depend on libacl1 and libattr1
Jan 30 06:52:17 <flux> ..and coreutils-gnu
Jan 30 06:52:33 <flux> so, I think, basically they are used only if you need them
Jan 30 06:52:44 <RobbieThe1st> alright
Jan 30 06:53:18 <RobbieThe1st> Thing is, I have both of those in my list of loaded libraries for BackupMenu... But I'm not sure why I added them, and am trying to figure out if they are even needed
Jan 30 06:53:52 <jacekowski> RobbieThe1st: for extended acls and attributes
Jan 30 06:53:56 <jacekowski> RobbieThe1st: not used at all
Jan 30 06:54:10 <RobbieThe1st> Alright
Jan 30 07:04:44 <RobbieThe1st> Oh gees... I forget; what do you use to connect to a serial-console on /dev/ttyACM0
Jan 30 07:04:53 <RobbieThe1st> (on the PC side, Linux)
Jan 30 07:05:26 <johnx> might be able to get away with screen, IIRC
Jan 30 07:05:29 <mgedmin> screen works
Jan 30 07:07:39 <RobbieThe1st> mgedmin: Uh... how?
Jan 30 07:07:59 <mgedmin> screen /dev/ttyACM0
Jan 30 07:09:48 <RobbieThe1st> Ah, there we go. Not sure why it wasn't working before.
Jan 30 08:14:36 <jonwil> Anyone here know anything about dbus?
Jan 30 08:15:42 <jacekowski> little bit
Jan 30 08:17:25 <Jartza> something, yes
Jan 30 08:17:27 <jonwil> specifically dbus introspection?
Jan 30 08:17:46 <Jartza> what about it
Jan 30 08:18:51 <jonwil> I have some evidence that the SMS plugin supports dbus introspection using com.nokia.phone.SMS and /com/nokia/phone/SMS and want to find someone who can help me get a dump of whatever dbus introspection output said plugin supports.
Jan 30 08:19:08 <jonwil> I would try myself but A.I know nothing about dbus and B.My N900 is still in the shop being fixed :)
Jan 30 08:20:06 <Jartza> dbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.SMS /com/nokia/phone/SMS org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect
Jan 30 08:20:10 <Jartza> or something like that :)
Jan 30 08:21:03 <jonwil> ok, well as I said I dont have my n900 right now, is there someone who can try that and se eif it works?
Jan 30 08:23:04 <RobbieThe1st> Sure
Jan 30 08:24:20 <Jartza> might also be --system instead of --session
Jan 30 08:24:22 <Jartza> not sure
Jan 30 08:26:54 <RobbieThe1st> Jartza: I just get "usage: bla bla bla" - it didn't like it
Jan 30 08:27:08 <Jartza> jonwil: http://tulilahti.fi/n900.dbus.txt
Jan 30 08:27:30 <Jartza> RobbieThe1st: you must have a typo, it did work for me, although it was --system instead of --session
Jan 30 08:28:17 <RobbieThe1st> Oh, there we go
Jan 30 08:28:31 <RobbieThe1st> --print-reply instead of --print_reply
Jan 30 08:28:40 <Jartza> yeah
Jan 30 08:28:56 <Jartza> anyway, the output is already there :)
Jan 30 08:29:02 <Jartza> http://tulilahti.fi/n900.dbus.txt
Jan 30 08:29:49 <jacekowski> 22/#maemo.log:15:47 < jacekowski> i see function processing that cell broadcast calling dbus_message_new_signal( "/com/nokia/phone/SMS",  "Phone.SMS", "IncomingCBS");
Jan 30 08:30:02 <jacekowski> Jartza: you may know what is it
Jan 30 08:32:18 <Jartza> jacekowski: sms cell broadcast
Jan 30 08:33:14 <jacekowski> i know
Jan 30 08:33:32 <jacekowski> but it goes like that
Jan 30 08:34:08 <jacekowski> dbus_message_new_signal -> dbus_message_append_args -> dbus_connection_send
Jan 30 08:34:20 <Jartza> yes
Jan 30 08:34:30 <jacekowski> but i don't see message being sent
Jan 30 08:34:38 <Jartza> hmm
Jan 30 08:34:52 <Jartza> what do you mean by "don't see"?
Jan 30 08:34:59 <jacekowski> with dbus_monitor
Jan 30 08:35:29 <Jartza> are you using the correct bus?
Jan 30 08:36:13 <jacekowski> i've tried session and system
Jan 30 08:36:31 <Jartza> well system bus seems to be the correct one
Jan 30 08:37:30 <Jartza> how are you monitoring?
Jan 30 08:37:38 <Jartza> just dbus-monitor --system ?
Jan 30 08:37:43 <jacekowski> yes
Jan 30 08:37:50 <Jartza> hmm
Jan 30 08:38:03 <jonwil> It might be that libsms isnt sending the right stuff through to csd-sms
Jan 30 08:38:06 <Jartza> should show up then. you might have some problem in sending code.
Jan 30 08:38:20 <jacekowski> it's not my code
Jan 30 08:38:31 <jonwil> This is Nokia code
Jan 30 08:38:36 <jonwil> responsible for SMS
Jan 30 08:38:41 <jonwil> inside csd-sms plugin
Jan 30 08:40:12 <jonwil> What happens is that csd-sms calls a function called isi_sms_get_callbacks in libsms and fills in one of the callback fields with the function responsible for triggering the IncomingCBS signal
Jan 30 08:42:08 <jacekowski> .text:00003EDC IncomingCBS
Jan 30 08:42:11 <jonwil> It may well be that libsms never actually calls that callback and doesn't implement the right cell broadcast stuff
Jan 30 08:42:18 <jacekowski> it does
Jan 30 08:42:37 <jonwil> so you know for a fact that the function inside csd-sms at 00003EDC is called?
Jan 30 08:42:43 <jacekowski> yes
Jan 30 08:43:05 <jonwil> well I do know some of the nokia dbus things cant be easily monitored with dbus-monitor
Jan 30 08:43:11 <jonwil> or I think so anyway
Jan 30 08:47:27 <jonwil> Would be nice to figure out what type those arguments are
Jan 30 08:47:40 <jonwil> i.e. the "ay", "u" and "y"
Jan 30 08:47:56 <jonwil> Google doesnt show any usefull results for that
Jan 30 08:52:13 <Jartza> dunno that deeply
Jan 30 08:52:26 <Jartza> I haven't messed that much with the actual sms/call-stuff
Jan 30 08:54:57 <jonwil> well I am guessing that the valid type values would be standardized somewhere in the dbus code
Jan 30 08:55:06 <jonwil> I mean the dbus specs
Jan 30 08:55:09 <jonwil> but I cant find anything\
Jan 30 08:56:57 <jonwil> in any case I suspect that if someone can figure out how to wire up the IncomingCBS signal and write a UI that does something with the data, it will be possible to have working Cell Broadcast on N900
Jan 30 08:59:15 <Jartza> jonwil: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html
Jan 30 08:59:22 <Jartza> that specifies what do those letters mean
Jan 30 08:59:34 <Jartza> y = BYTE, i = INT32 etc...
Jan 30 08:59:57 <Jartza> and there can also be arrays of things etc
Jan 30 09:00:06 <jonwil> thanks
Jan 30 09:00:07 <Jartza> ay = array of bytes...
Jan 30 09:02:03 <jonwil> yeah I got it now
Jan 30 09:03:02 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jan 30 09:04:00 <jonwil> the array of bytes is obviously the actual SMS message
Jan 30 09:04:18 <jonwil> but the rest (uint32, uint32, byte, byte, byte) is totally unknown
Jan 30 09:05:22 <Jartza> some status codes maybe
Jan 30 09:05:33 <jonwil> maybe
Jan 30 09:06:01 <SpeedEvil> there will be a byte for CBS channel
Jan 30 09:06:33 <jonwil> yeah I would imagine so
Jan 30 09:10:23 <SpeedEvil> timestamp?
Jan 30 09:10:47 <psycho_oreos> any of you guys do unofficial language translations?
Jan 30 09:11:39 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp does I think sometimes.
Jan 30 09:11:44 <psycho_oreos> or know how to deal with localedef? :)
Jan 30 09:11:45 <SpeedEvil> He's not here right now though.
Jan 30 09:11:54 <psycho_oreos> bah, thanks :/
Jan 30 09:12:35 <jonwil> I posted the most recent info to bug 8347
Jan 30 09:12:37 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available
Jan 30 09:35:01 <jonwil> Now that we know exactly what the CBSMS code is doing, the chance that we can convince some Nokia people to provide some docs for the IncomingCBS signal is increased IMO
Jan 30 09:36:23 <SpeedEvil> Hopefully.
Jan 30 09:36:33 <SpeedEvil> Are you actually seeing CBSMS mesages on dbus?
Jan 30 09:36:49 <SpeedEvil> Or are they just the 'setup' or 'message available' ones?
Jan 30 09:37:07 <jonwil> someone said the relavent signal is being signaled
Jan 30 09:37:25 <jonwil> or rather that the function inside csd-sms is being called
Jan 30 09:40:25 <RobbieThe1st> It's a very bad idea to try to backup an OS partition when it's running off that partition, right?
Jan 30 09:40:52 <psycho_oreos> RobbieThe1st, yes
Jan 30 09:41:19 <SpeedEvil> Depends
Jan 30 09:41:23 <RobbieThe1st> psycho_oreos: Can you give me some good references why not? I believe it.
Jan 30 09:41:33 <RobbieThe1st> SpeedEvil: Maemo, specificially
Jan 30 09:41:43 <SpeedEvil> If you copy the files as files, then it's typically no worse than switching off at a random time
Jan 30 09:42:04 <SpeedEvil> However, you can get pathalogical cases - for example - you're backing up a directory.
Jan 30 09:42:18 <SpeedEvil> Something moves the files from it into an earlier directory you've already backed up
Jan 30 09:42:21 <SpeedEvil> data-loss
Jan 30 09:42:33 <psycho_oreos> RobbieThe1st, because if lets say the backup stuff uses the stuff that also belongs to the OS being backed up, it may cause issues when being copied
Jan 30 09:43:37 <RobbieThe1st> So, we've got a library. It's being used by the OS. When we try to copy it...?
Jan 30 09:43:59 <SpeedEvil> RobbieThe1st: It works fine.
Jan 30 09:44:30 <SpeedEvil> RobbieThe1st: As root, the 'used by the OS' - at least in linux - argument tends to be weaker. As I understand it, it's stronger on windows.
Jan 30 09:45:27 <RobbieThe1st> Alright... On Windows, I think we have the Volume Shadow Copy service to solve that... But that's beside the point
Jan 30 09:46:21 <RobbieThe1st> My problem is that someone on my BackupMenu topic has the "great idea" that he ought to be able to just backup the rootfs while the system is running.
Jan 30 09:46:46 <RobbieThe1st> I'm not sure what exactly to say. It doesn't seem like a good idea - I had trouble messing with it a while back..
Jan 30 09:49:32 <SpeedEvil> It will typically usually work.
Jan 30 09:49:45 <SpeedEvil> (from my experience with 'normal' linux)
Jan 30 09:49:57 <SpeedEvil> The fun part is you can't tell when it breaks.
Jan 30 09:50:12 <RobbieThe1st> ah, yea
Jan 30 09:50:21 <SpeedEvil> In principle, you could drop to single-user mode
Jan 30 09:50:28 <SpeedEvil> But I'm unsure how well that works on n900
Jan 30 09:51:24 <Jartza> agh. can't get anything done today :)
Jan 30 09:51:38 <Jartza> I'm just laughing my ass off for these "band shreds" from sts :)
Jan 30 09:52:31 <Jartza> http://www.stsanders.com/www/pages/videos/band-shreds/sts-rolling-stones.php etc :)
Jan 30 10:30:45 <Venemo> hi guys
Jan 30 10:34:48 <alterego> Hey Venemo
Jan 30 10:34:52 <alterego> Hey MohammadAG
Jan 30 10:35:02 <MohammadAG> hey alterego
Jan 30 10:35:10 <MohammadAG> Just popping in on holidays
Jan 30 10:35:25 <alterego> Cool, doing anything fun with your time?
Jan 30 10:36:13 <MohammadAG> Anything maemo related? guess not :p
Jan 30 10:36:18 <Venemo> good morning MohammadAG :)
Jan 30 11:15:15 <alterego> Looks like another quiet day ...
Jan 30 11:15:52 <Venemo> alterego: it is
Jan 30 11:16:38 * alterego starts setting up an OBS
Jan 30 11:19:19 <alterego> Actually, I need to figure out how to disassemble this Nokia C7
Jan 30 11:21:21 <dm8tbr> alterego: what distro will you target with your obs?
Jan 30 11:22:09 <Venemo> alterego: why do you wanna disassemble it?
Jan 30 11:22:59 <alterego> Venemo: it's broken
Jan 30 11:23:04 <alterego> dm8tbr: fremantle and meego handset
Jan 30 11:23:47 <dm8tbr> alterego: you know about the intricacies of setting up for fremantle?
Jan 30 11:25:25 <ieatlint> take pictures if you disassemble the c7 :)
Jan 30 11:25:40 <alterego> dm8tbr: I have an idea, it's more about research at the moment.
Jan 30 11:25:48 <alterego> ieatlint: why? There are loads on the internet :P
Jan 30 11:26:03 <ieatlint> oh ... ok then ... nm :)
Jan 30 11:26:19 <dm8tbr> there was something about qmake or so being x86 although it should be arm I can look it up if necessary
Jan 30 11:26:28 <SpeedEvil> http://www.a2phone.com/nokia-c7-00-rm-675-l1l2-service-manual-version-30 alterego
Jan 30 11:26:35 <ieatlint> go tell nokia to enable the nfc chip then
Jan 30 11:26:52 <dm8tbr> We set up a test-OBS within Tieto and wrote down a few of the things we needed to do to make it work.
Jan 30 11:27:10 <alterego> I'm looking at a Nokia C7-00 RM-675 "Nokia Care Academy" Disassembly and Assembly PDF
Jan 30 11:33:33 <RST38h> You are ready to disassemble your C7? So soon?
Jan 30 11:35:02 <alterego> It's not mine
Jan 30 11:35:04 <alterego> And it's broken,.
Jan 30 11:35:21 <DocScrutinizer> tzz
Jan 30 11:35:37 <Jartza> In Finland we have the saying, "Tieto lisää tuskaa"
Jan 30 11:36:05 <alterego> What does that mean
Jan 30 11:36:37 <Jartza> hmm
Jan 30 11:36:52 <Jartza> Knowledge increases agony... or close to that :)
Jan 30 11:36:53 * alterego kind of wants a "Nokia Standard Toolkit" (version 2)
Jan 30 11:36:56 <Jartza> Tieto == Knowledge
Jan 30 11:36:58 <alterego> Heh
Jan 30 11:37:01 <alterego> Cool
Jan 30 11:37:23 <Jartza> it's a sort of like finnish equivalent to "Ignorance is a bliss" :)
Jan 30 11:37:41 <DocScrutinizer> for the ignorant only
Jan 30 11:37:45 <Jartza> sure
Jan 30 11:38:01 <alterego> Very nice
Jan 30 11:38:34 <jonwil> Time to resume reverse engineering the USB status bar widget
Jan 30 11:41:59 <alterego> jonwil: why?
Jan 30 11:42:21 <jonwil> someone posted a bug asking for it to be open sourced so it can be modified to do more
Jan 30 11:42:38 <jonwil> specifically being able to switch USB mode without unplugging and replugging the cable
Jan 30 11:43:28 <DocScrutinizer> now that will be hard to implement
Jan 30 11:43:53 <jonwil> so you say there is no point reverse engineering the USB plugin?
Jan 30 11:44:08 <DocScrutinizer> pugin?
Jan 30 11:44:14 <jonwil> status bar plugin
Jan 30 11:44:16 <DocScrutinizer> err plugin?
Jan 30 11:44:59 <jonwil> ?
Jan 30 11:45:14 <DocScrutinizer> uhm, no idea. I just can tell you it's not that easy to tell USB to spoof a disconnect and the trigger a new ENUM at PC host
Jan 30 11:45:17 <alterego> You don't need to use the usb plugin for that.
Jan 30 11:45:35 <alterego> And yeah, like DocScrutinizer said, unlikely that it'll even work.
Jan 30 11:45:36 <jonwil> ok, well I wont bother reverse engineering it then
Jan 30 11:45:59 <alterego> jonwil: basically all the plugin does is insmod and rmmod either g_nokia or g_storage
Jan 30 11:46:13 <RobbieThe1st> Hm, out of curiosity, what brings up the "USB connected" interface when you plug in a USB cable? You know, the interface with "Mass Storage" and "PC Suite" modes
Jan 30 11:46:30 <DocScrutinizer> udev?
Jan 30 11:46:41 <DocScrutinizer> g_nokia actually
Jan 30 11:47:38 <jonwil> well the usb widget plugin is doing some dbus calls
Jan 30 11:47:58 <alterego> Calls or making signals?
Jan 30 11:48:07 <jonwil> but yeah those appear to be dbus calls to load those modules
Jan 30 11:48:08 <RobbieThe1st> I'm just curious as to how hard it would be to edit it - Once we have JRBME, it would be nice to have a "slow-charge/"fast charge" button on that interface - i.e. 500ma /max.
Jan 30 11:48:45 <alterego> Hard to edit, easy to replace.
Jan 30 11:48:55 <DocScrutinizer> talk to MohammadAG to augment h-e-n GUI to include that
Jan 30 11:49:14 <DocScrutinizer> actually h-e-n GUI is about to become jrbme GUI anyway
Jan 30 11:49:26 <jonwil> I believe it is the usb_plugin.so that displays the UI in question
Jan 30 11:49:49 <jonwil> and yes it looks like it would be easier to replace than to clone and edit
Jan 30 11:49:58 <DocScrutinizer> o/
Jan 30 11:50:06 <DocScrutinizer> have a nice sunday!
Jan 30 11:50:10 <RobbieThe1st> DocScrutinizer: When h-e-n is installed, that comes up when any usb port is plugged in?
Jan 30 11:50:35 <jonwil> "usb-plugin::Mass Storage mode button pressed" is comming from the USB plugin
Jan 30 11:50:43 <jonwil> so yes its definatly doing the UI in question :)
Jan 30 11:51:05 <alterego> jonwil: I would have thought that was obvious, status bar plugins are pretty well documented.
Jan 30 11:58:44 <jonwil> ok, so other things I am thinking of cloning include the internet status bar plugin (the one that does wifi) because someone said they wanted to add a wifi signal strength item to it
Jan 30 11:58:55 <jonwil> also the battery status bar applet sounds interesting
Jan 30 11:59:40 <jonwil> also maybe the wlan config dialogs
Jan 30 12:00:03 <jonwil> Whats jrbme?
Jan 30 12:00:06 * alterego connects his second N900 to the internet for the first time. :o
Jan 30 12:00:08 <jonwil> BME clone?
Jan 30 12:01:12 <jonwil> ok, I see now
Jan 30 12:02:23 <jonwil> is jrbme intended to be a compatible clone (as in compatible with the higher level bits that talk to bme) or will those bits be replaced?
Jan 30 12:02:41 <alterego> jonwil: Should be compatible.
Jan 30 12:03:37 <jonwil> so you mean that its intended to speak to libbmeipc in the same way as the nokia BME?
Jan 30 12:03:54 <alterego> I'd imagine so
Jan 30 12:04:20 <jonwil> ok, in that case it sounds like playing with libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme is pointless
Jan 30 12:04:47 * alterego goes through removing all the balls from a clean N900
Jan 30 12:05:49 <alterego> Just noticed the MAC address for my N900 and my brothers share the same first three hex paris.
Jan 30 12:05:52 <alterego> ~pairs
Jan 30 12:06:02 <alterego> This new one is totally different
Jan 30 12:13:01 <jonwil> hmmm, still stuck on what to reverse engineer next
Jan 30 12:13:03 <asj__> alterego: the first 3 octets are the mfg oui
Jan 30 12:13:18 <jonwil> Maybe I will go back and finish the wlan status bar plugin
Jan 30 12:13:23 <alterego> asj__: yeah, I guess Nokia must have ran out of their allocation
Jan 30 12:13:26 <asj__> alterego: basically it tells you who made it,t here's a lookup table for it
Jan 30 12:13:57 <Venemo> jonwil: if you clone that, please make sure that the dialog it opens will work in portrait mode
Jan 30 12:14:05 <asj__> alterego: or different plant, different run, who knows how they assign them
Jan 30 12:14:11 <jonwil> well my plan is to finish my 1:1 clone
Jan 30 12:14:14 <alterego> Yeah
Jan 30 12:14:16 <jonwil> and let someone else enhance it
Jan 30 12:14:43 <alterego> jonwil: portrait mode is ~1 line of code :P
Jan 30 12:14:48 <alterego> Seriously, just do it.
Jan 30 12:14:51 <jonwil> :P
Jan 30 12:15:15 <asj__> wow nokia has 211 ouis
Jan 30 12:15:34 <alterego> asj__: :)
Jan 30 12:15:45 <alterego> asj__: they have a lot of devices.
Jan 30 12:15:52 <alterego> Phones are more popular than computers ffs
Jan 30 12:16:21 <alterego> I wonder how popular phones with wifi are
Jan 30 12:16:42 <jonwil> phones with wifi are getting more and more popular
Jan 30 12:16:48 <alterego> Sure
Jan 30 12:17:10 <alterego> But still Nokias most sold phones don't have wifi
Jan 30 12:17:11 <asj__> alterego: between wifi, bt, etc.  Each oui is 16million devices though
Jan 30 12:17:21 <alterego> (At least I'd hazzard a guess at that being the case)
Jan 30 12:18:55 <asj__> probably fair, a lot of symbian phones are nothing more than feature phones
Jan 30 12:19:53 <jacekowski> my sisters android crap have failed miserably
Jan 30 12:20:22 <jacekowski> and now she has black cross on lcd and
Jan 30 12:20:43 <kerio> maemo++
Jan 30 12:20:46 <jonwil> From the looks of things, the tv out applet has already been copied
Jan 30 12:21:08 <jonwil> the USB app has already been covered
Jan 30 12:21:35 <alterego> asj__: I'm talking series 40, not even Symbian :)
Jan 30 12:21:56 <alterego> Symbian are still Nokia high end really. Most sales for Nokia are supposedly cheap Series 40 handsets.
Jan 30 12:22:14 <asj__> alterego: mmm, but I remember the number of symbian phones last quarter or year was some huge millions
Jan 30 12:22:16 <alterego> Admittedly they will all probably have bluetooth.
Jan 30 12:22:28 <jonwil> Even lower end phones these days have bluetooth
Jan 30 12:22:34 <jonwil> because its cheap to add
Jan 30 12:22:41 <alterego> asj__: sure, Nokia do sell a lot of phones ;)
Jan 30 12:22:47 <jonwil> and it provides a great upsell selling car kits, headsets etc
Jan 30 12:23:03 <jonwil> not to mention that more and more countries are requiring bluetooth handsfree use when driving
Jan 30 12:23:10 <jonwil> well handsfree anyway
Jan 30 12:23:15 <fser> hello
Jan 30 12:23:23 <fser> Is maemo only for N900?
Jan 30 12:23:25 <asj__> 3 points and $250 here
Jan 30 12:24:07 <kerio> jonwil: well, nobody uses wired proprietary handsfree
Jan 30 12:24:21 * jonwil used it the other day
Jan 30 12:24:26 <jonwil> but as antenna for the FM radio app :P
Jan 30 12:24:26 <alterego> fser: in short, yes.
Jan 30 12:24:40 <jonwil> Not sure whether I should clone the battery status bar app, the wlan status bar app, another status bar app (although none of the others seem worth doing), the wlan config dialogs, hald-addon-bme, libbmeipc, more work on the CBSMS stuff or what
Jan 30 12:25:02 <fser> because I've not found much information about that
Jan 30 12:25:11 <alterego> fser: actually, no, the Nokia N900 is the current (and last Maemo) device, we've had four before the N900, the Nokia 770, the Nokia N800, Nokia N810 and Nokia N810 WiMax
Jan 30 12:25:17 <jonwil> looking for something to reverse engineer, clone, document, figure out or pull to bits that the dev community are going to care about
Jan 30 12:25:41 <alterego> jonwil: GPS
Jan 30 12:25:56 <jonwil> GPS is too hard
Jan 30 12:26:07 <alterego> Specifically, getting and setting agps data
Jan 30 12:26:13 <jonwil> its all done via a daemon containing a mountain of hard-to-copy algorithins
Jan 30 12:26:13 <alterego> pfft :P
Jan 30 12:26:23 <fser> :(
Jan 30 12:26:24 <jonwil> actually, let me take another look
Jan 30 12:26:30 <jacktheripper> I see a GSoC student almost completed porting canola2 to maemo5. I just can't find the source tree or a new package.
Jan 30 12:26:45 <jonwil> whats canola2?
Jan 30 12:27:39 <alterego> jonwil: Canola is a media player application developed by a company that were setup by Nokia to do research and development.
Jan 30 12:27:44 <alterego> It's a pretty media player at that.
Jan 30 12:27:47 <jonwil> interesting
Jan 30 12:27:52 <alterego> Using (I believe) E17 graphics libraries.
Jan 30 12:28:10 <jonwil> ok, GPS stuff is done through location-daemon package
Jan 30 12:28:11 <jonwil> T
Jan 30 12:28:15 <jonwil> location-daemon talks to liblas
Jan 30 12:28:22 <jonwil> "
Jan 30 12:28:25 <jonwil> "A dynamic library(LIBLAS) provides services for a communication between OSSO and CellMo Location Server."
Jan 30 12:28:39 <jonwil> liblas depends on libisi to talk to cellmo
Jan 30 12:28:50 <jonwil> Might be worth digging into liblas then
Jan 30 12:28:55 <jonwil> figure out how to talk to liblas
Jan 30 12:28:56 <jacktheripper> well this seems like good news. But the source tree is down. http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2010/Projects/Porting_Canola_to_Maemo5
Jan 30 12:40:19 <jonwil> nope, liblas and location-daemon is too complex to figure out
Jan 30 12:40:43 <jonwil> actually, it might be possible to figure out the packets liblas sends to libicd and hence the cellmodem
Jan 30 12:41:08 <RST38h> Is mikecomputing a troll, or is he just fresh and eager to chat?
Jan 30 12:41:10 <alterego> Well, we've already had progress starting and stopping GPS, as well as decoding the data the GPS sends out.
Jan 30 12:41:29 <alterego> What we're lacking is the ability to do agps functionality.
Jan 30 12:41:55 <alterego> I managed to find out how to get the agps data, but putting it into the gps is something I've not looked into yet.
Jan 30 12:42:30 <jonwil> how did you get the AGPS data?
Jan 30 12:42:47 <alterego> tcpdump
Jan 30 12:43:01 <jonwil> so you dont know what daemon or library is dealing with it?
Jan 30 12:43:07 <jonwil> and what is this in aid of?
Jan 30 12:43:08 <alterego> Doesn't matter.
Jan 30 12:43:17 <jonwil> replacing the telephony stack with something free?
Jan 30 12:43:18 <alterego> An open GPS driver
Jan 30 12:43:27 <jonwil> open GPS would be good for MeeGo
Jan 30 12:43:38 <alterego> This has nothing to do with telephony, we already have an open one with ofono
Jan 30 12:43:42 <alterego> Yes,
Jan 30 12:43:51 <jonwil> but AGPS ties into telephony]
Jan 30 12:43:52 <alterego> As the current state of N900 GPS in MeeGo is exactly what we have in maemo
Jan 30 12:43:54 <alterego> So it's closed.
Jan 30 12:43:54 <jonwil> because of how AGPS works
Jan 30 12:43:58 <alterego> No it doesn't.
Jan 30 12:44:14 <jonwil> oh ok, I thought it used the towers to help improve the GPS data
Jan 30 12:44:15 <alterego> It ties into telephony as far as your cellid
Jan 30 12:44:18 <alterego> No
Jan 30 12:44:19 <jonwil> oh ok
Jan 30 12:44:27 <alterego> It uses towers to get a rough idea of where on Earth you are.
Jan 30 12:44:48 <alterego> That information is then added to a HTTP connection to a nokia server which replies with the appropriate ephemeris data.
Jan 30 12:44:55 <jonwil> in any case as the GPS is attached to the cell modem, you presumably talk to it via phonet/isi, right?
Jan 30 12:44:56 <alterego> That data is then some how injected into the GPS
Jan 30 12:45:02 <alterego> No
Jan 30 12:45:10 <jonwil> ok, so how do you talk to it?
Jan 30 12:45:27 * alterego tries to find the source.
Jan 30 12:45:29 <alterego> Ang on
Jan 30 12:46:27 <alterego> Yes, it is phonet ;)
Jan 30 12:46:35 <alterego> jonwil: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering
Jan 30 12:46:39 <alterego> Had a brain fart moment.
Jan 30 12:48:53 <jonwil> do you happen to know the name of the nokia AGPS server?
Jan 30 12:49:15 <alterego> supl.nokia.com
Jan 30 12:49:31 <alterego> Which then resolves to something like: uk.nokia.supl.geodns.fi
Jan 30 12:49:47 <alterego> Regardless you talk to it on port 80
Jan 30 12:50:14 * jonwil greps his n900 filedump for that host to find out who is talking to it
Jan 30 12:50:20 <jonwil> from there, I can find out where the data goes
Jan 30 12:50:27 <jonwil> as in what phonet calls get made
Jan 30 12:50:42 <alterego> That would be great :)
Jan 30 12:50:51 <MohammadAG> Angry birds is kinda cool on the ps3
Jan 30 12:50:58 <MohammadAG> cept for the shitty controls
Jan 30 12:51:01 <MohammadAG> the fps is high
Jan 30 12:51:36 <jonwil> ok, looks like that server name comes from a gconf config
Jan 30 12:51:59 <MohammadAG> yep, set from Settings > Location
Jan 30 12:52:07 <jonwil> said gconf config claims to be owned by "liblocation"
Jan 30 12:53:01 <jonwil> as neither liblas nor location-daemon call gconf, it must be liblocation then
Jan 30 12:53:48 * alterego downloads windows 7
Jan 30 12:54:02 <alterego> Does Ovi suite work okay with windows 7 64 bit?
Jan 30 12:54:28 <alterego> btw, this isn't illegal, I've got an MSDN license ^.^
Jan 30 12:54:51 <MohammadAG> alterego, yes
Jan 30 12:54:59 <alterego> MohammadAG: thanks
Jan 30 12:55:06 <MohammadAG> alterego, and if you do download win 7 x64, can you do me a favor? :P
Jan 30 12:55:16 <alterego> MohammadAG: what's that?
Jan 30 12:55:37 <MohammadAG> Need some dlls to fix my broken install
Jan 30 12:55:43 <jonwil> ok, nope, its not liblocation either
Jan 30 12:55:46 <Appiah> is there no way to set the musicplayer to fade out/in to next track?
Jan 30 12:55:52 <MohammadAG> Appiah, no
Jan 30 12:56:10 <MohammadAG> mafw can be edited to do so I guess
Jan 30 12:56:22 <Appiah> mafw is that another musicplayer?
Jan 30 12:56:41 <MohammadAG> no, it's the backend
Jan 30 12:56:50 <Appiah> O_o
Jan 30 12:57:28 <jonwil> oh wait, it is liblocation
Jan 30 12:58:01 <jonwil> or not
Jan 30 12:58:07 <jonwil> no its liblocation_applet
Jan 30 12:58:13 <jonwil> no, wait, thats what sets it
Jan 30 12:59:03 <alterego> Heh
Jan 30 12:59:28 <MohammadAG> as I set a shitload of lines above :P
Jan 30 13:00:21 <jonwil> BINGO. Location_Proxy is where I need to look
Jan 30 13:00:53 <jonwil> hmmm, that package installs a SMS handler called supl_mt_sms.handler
Jan 30 13:01:39 <jonwil> which passes certain SMS messages to location-proxy or so
Jan 30 13:01:56 <Appiah> Guess I'll make a feature request
Jan 30 13:04:35 <jonwil> yep, definatly location-proxy is doing the supl stuff
Jan 30 13:08:08 <Appiah> MohammadAG: your opinion , should I request the feature in multimedia framework or the mediaplayer?
Jan 30 13:16:46 <trumee> does fmms allow receiving of video messages?
Jan 30 13:18:16 * trumee has a feeling this question must have been asked thousand times before :p
Jan 30 13:25:14 <jonwil> ok, looking into the code I can see it sending a request to an isi/phonet resource with a resource ID of 0x54
Jan 30 13:25:42 <jonwil> which is a resource ID not documented in anything I have...
Jan 30 13:26:52 <jonwil> everything in liblas sends to that resource ID
Jan 30 13:29:31 <jonwil> My guess is that Nokia has never documented the isi/phonet interface related to GPS/AGPS
Jan 30 13:30:57 <jonwil> and therefore the only way forward is to reverse engineer location-daemon and liblas
Jan 30 13:31:27 <jonwil> or to ask Nokia for some documentation on the phonet interface for GPS/AGPS (which since its for MeeGo and not Maemo is more likely to succeed)
Jan 30 13:33:57 <Gyjf> so, whats the deal with meego?
Jan 30 13:34:40 <dm8tbr> jonwil: one problem can be that anything related to the nl_somethingsomething chipset seems to be NDA by TI
Jan 30 13:35:11 <dm8tbr> and official TI statement was that there will never be any public documentation or code from them
Jan 30 13:35:22 <Gyjf> can it natively run maemo programs? can it run on the n900? hows the driver suppoer?
Jan 30 13:35:41 <jonwil> My guess is TI need to keep the GPS stuff closed because of the heavy government regulation surrounding GPS
Jan 30 13:35:45 <DocScrutinizer51> jonwil: could you find out about exact format (of at least trigger) of that SMS that supl_mt_sms.handler is messing around with?
Jan 30 13:35:53 <dm8tbr> jonwil: that's also my guess
Jan 30 13:37:48 <jonwil> Cant find out more about that SMS, its all tied up inside sms-manager
Jan 30 13:38:10 <DocScrutinizer51> jonwil: nah, the GPS restrictions from gvmt are negligable
Jan 30 13:38:41 <jonwil> isnt there a rule about civilian GPS that you have to make sure it wont operate in ways that would allow it to be used for weapons
Jan 30 13:38:49 <jonwil> e.g. using it for the targeting system of a missile
Jan 30 13:38:50 <DocScrutinizer51> also note that you're talking to cellmo and its firmware, not to the gps chip directly
Jan 30 13:39:02 <jonwil> hmmm yeah good pointh
Jan 30 13:39:06 <jonwil> good point
Jan 30 13:40:05 <jonwil> either way, someone from the MeeGo camp should talk to the right people at Nokia and see what they say. The worst that can happen is that nokia says "no we cant reveal the isi interface for GPS because of NDA"
Jan 30 13:40:13 <DocScrutinizer51> and the restrictions you refer to are more like no <$$$$$ commercial chipset is able to violate them
Jan 30 13:40:48 <dm8tbr> btw: I think there is already movement WRT the GPS
Jan 30 13:41:02 <BCMM> jonwil: civilian GPS chips won't work above a certain altitude or speed
Jan 30 13:41:08 <dm8tbr> or atleast plans. I seem to remember that 'will be like SGX' though
Jan 30 13:41:17 <alterego> dm8tbr: in MeeGo, yes, but it's the same closed system we have for Maemo
Jan 30 13:41:28 <dm8tbr> *nod*
Jan 30 13:41:31 <alterego> And that, will simply not do :)
Jan 30 13:41:47 <BCMM> jonwil: it prevents use as a ballstic missile guidance system, but they can't do much about cruise missiles since they effectively behave like any other aircraft
Jan 30 13:44:53 * RST38h makes a mental note: that ballistic approach should probably be scrapped in favor of the multiple cruise missile system.
Jan 30 13:45:29 <jonwil> ok, looking at liblas, it registers a bunch of callback handlers for the GPS resource ID. One of these is for the message 0x92 described in the reverse engineering document
Jan 30 13:45:40 <jonwil> this is wired to a function called hybrid_tracking_ntf
Jan 30 13:48:36 <DocScrutinizer51> o/
Jan 30 13:49:07 <jonwil> so yeah I think we need to either A.Do a LOT more logging of the GPS packets as sent to the cellmo and reverse engineer a lot more packet types
Jan 30 13:49:11 <jonwil> as sent in both directions
Jan 30 13:49:29 <jonwil> B.Reverse engineer liblas and its users directly
Jan 30 13:49:32 <jonwil> which is hard
Jan 30 13:49:54 <jonwil> or C.Ask Nokia for some docs on the cellmo GPS protocol and hope they can help (which is IMO unlikely)
Jan 30 13:51:59 <jacekowski> somebody here reversed that protocol
Jan 30 13:53:12 <alterego> jacekowski: not the agps parts ..
Jan 30 13:55:03 <jacekowski> agps is handled by rapuyama itself
Jan 30 13:55:26 <alterego> jacekowski: what do you base that on?
Jan 30 13:55:39 <jacekowski> agps code in rapuyama firmware
Jan 30 13:55:47 <alterego> Interesting.
Jan 30 13:56:01 <alterego> So there's agps stuff in the cmt?
Jan 30 13:56:22 <jacekowski> let me get another laptop out
Jan 30 13:56:38 <jacekowski> but you can search for example for agps server addresses
Jan 30 13:57:29 <jonwil> GPS from the host point of view involves sending ISI packets to ISI resource 0x54
Jan 30 13:57:34 <alterego> Anyhow, in which case, we need a little blob that can provide agps data to cellmo, and handle requests for agps data.
Jan 30 13:57:44 <jacekowski> nope
Jan 30 13:57:55 <jacekowski> cellmo can get it's own agps data
Jan 30 13:58:12 <alterego> No it can't.
Jan 30 13:58:21 <jacekowski> yes it can
Jan 30 13:58:23 <alterego> It needs network connection
Jan 30 13:58:28 <jacekowski> ekhm
Jan 30 13:58:29 <alterego> working DNS server address.
Jan 30 13:58:30 <jacekowski> it's a modem
Jan 30 13:58:41 <kerio> jacekowski: wifi
Jan 30 13:58:43 <jacekowski> that can run whole phone
Jan 30 13:58:49 <jacekowski> you can't do agps on wifi
Jan 30 13:58:51 <alterego> So you're saying it has an ip stack built in?
Jan 30 13:58:54 <alterego> jacekowski: yes you can.
Jan 30 13:58:58 <jonwil> what we need is some info (reverse engineered or otherwise) on what the format of the different messages that can be sent to/from resource 0x54
Jan 30 13:59:12 <alterego> the cellmo doesn't handle the agps request to supl.nokia.com
Jan 30 13:59:35 <jonwil> that request is handled by the location-proxy daemon\
Jan 30 13:59:37 <alterego> It either asks a service to do it, or the service (liblocation) does it anyway and injects the data into the cellmo.
Jan 30 13:59:50 <alterego> s/cellmo/gps/
Jan 30 13:59:50 <infobot> alterego meant: It either asks a service to do it, or the service (liblocation) does it anyway and injects the data into the gps.
Jan 30 14:01:56 <jonwil> liblocation has nothing to do with agps
Jan 30 14:02:30 <jonwil> everything GPS is done by calls made to liblas by locartion-proxy and lication-daemon
Jan 30 14:02:59 <alterego> jonwil: I'm using "liblocation" as an umbrella term for all of that crap sorry :P
Jan 30 14:03:04 <jonwil> oh ok
Jan 30 14:03:14 <alterego> Nokia user space, closed GPS services.
Jan 30 14:03:17 <alterego> and libraries
Jan 30 14:04:11 <alterego> I'm guessing the cellmo stuff jacekowski found in cmt is probably something completely different.
Jan 30 14:04:25 <alterego> I'd imagine it's related to Nokia remote back door :D
Jan 30 14:04:38 <jonwil> I think best way forward is to ask Nokia for isi GPS packet format (i.e. resource type 0x54) and if we cant get that, ask for liblas header files
Jan 30 14:05:16 <alterego> Having liblas headers doesn't really help
Jan 30 14:05:23 <alterego> We're still stuck with a closed gps
Jan 30 14:05:27 <jonwil> it does
Jan 30 14:05:38 <jonwil> it makes it much easier to reverse engineer the GPS isi packets
Jan 30 14:05:42 <jonwil> at least for me it would
Jan 30 14:06:38 <alterego> I don't see how.
Jan 30 14:06:48 <jonwil> trust me, it would :)
Jan 30 14:07:00 <jonwil> but yeah asking for the isi GPS packet info would be the best way to go
Jan 30 14:07:12 <jonwil> the worst that can happen is that Nokia says no to sharing that packet info
Jan 30 14:07:29 <alterego> We managed to get the information on the wiki page without liblas headers ..
Jan 30 14:07:52 <jonwil> well yeah thats brute-reverse-engineering of the TCP packets
Jan 30 14:07:57 <jonwil> which for some people is easy
Jan 30 14:08:06 <alterego> :)
Jan 30 14:08:08 <jonwil> but I wouldn't know where to start with that
Jan 30 14:08:13 <alterego> Yeah, I didn't find it too hard :P
Jan 30 14:08:20 <alterego> strac
Jan 30 14:08:23 <alterego> ~strace
Jan 30 14:08:24 <infobot> well, strace is a system-calls tracer. spits out a useful trace to stderr. To trace the command 'cmd with params' use: 'strace cmd with params'
Jan 30 14:08:31 <alterego> stfu infobot
Jan 30 14:08:58 <jonwil> but yeah someone with the contacts should ask Nokia for that info
Jan 30 14:09:11 <alterego> I'll ask
Jan 30 14:09:18 <alterego> On Thursday
Jan 30 14:09:21 <jonwil> ok
Jan 30 14:09:26 <JJ_Bram> I was wondering if anyone has added the ability to send txts to contact groups yet. I've com across a lot of brain storms about it and a lot of threads bringing it up but can't find any sign of an implementation.
Jan 30 14:09:42 <alterego> JJ_Bram: we don't have contact groups
Jan 30 14:10:01 <JJ_Bram> Right...so no one has done any work to create them I take it?
Jan 30 14:10:15 <ArGGu^^> is there way to catch QKeyEvent from the virtual keyboard?
Jan 30 14:10:18 <JJ_Bram> How hard would that be to do?
Jan 30 14:10:44 <alterego> ArGGu^^: say what you're trying to do, that question doesn't make much sense.
Jan 30 14:11:03 <alterego> ArGGu^^: unless you're talking about implementing 'keyPressEvent(QKeyEvent *event)' virtual function in your widget subclass ..
Jan 30 14:13:08 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: do not shout at infobot!
Jan 30 14:13:32 <JJ_Bram> Is the contacts app nokia closed source?
Jan 30 14:13:40 <ArGGu^^> alterego I have keyReleaseEvent but I don't get any event when using virtual keyboard
Jan 30 14:13:41 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: we won't redefine attention key, just to meet your weird usage patterns
Jan 30 14:14:14 <alterego> ArGGu^^: that's because the virtual keyboard doesn't work like the keyboard does.
Jan 30 14:14:36 <alterego> ArGGu^^: you're going to have to look at how the vkb works.
Jan 30 14:14:37 <ArGGu^^> And QLineEdit wont emit returnpressed with virtual keyboard :S
Jan 30 14:14:53 <jonwil> Someone with some contacts should try and ask Nokia about the IncomingCBS dbus signal :P
Jan 30 14:15:59 <DocScrutinizer> JJ_Bram: afaik yes
Jan 30 14:16:28 <JJ_Bram> Well, that would explain why we don't have contact groups then...
Jan 30 14:16:42 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Jan 30 14:17:30 <DocScrutinizer> JJ_Bram: that explains a lot of brainfart. Also e.g. why it's been so incredibly hard to implement per-contact ringtones
Jan 30 14:17:31 <JJ_Bram> And how about the app that handles sending sms?
Jan 30 14:17:45 <DocScrutinizer> closed
Jan 30 14:17:46 <jonwil> Everything related to SMS is nokia-closed-source
Jan 30 14:17:54 <jonwil> as is everything related to making phone call
Jan 30 14:17:58 <jonwil> its all inter-related
Jan 30 14:18:00 <jonwil> and all closed
Jan 30 14:18:05 <jonwil> unfortunatly
Jan 30 14:18:09 <DocScrutinizer> as is contacts, and calendar
Jan 30 14:18:09 <JJ_Bram> Hmm
Jan 30 14:18:21 <alterego> Well, that's not entirely true
Jan 30 14:18:29 <alterego> contacts and calendar use evolution backend.
Jan 30 14:18:39 <JJ_Bram> Any chance they will open it up now that they are moving on to meego?
Jan 30 14:18:46 <alterego> And the contacts lib, which is basically an evo wrapper is foss
Jan 30 14:18:56 <jonwil> the move to meego means even less likelyhood of opening stuff up
Jan 30 14:19:09 <jonwil> Opening this stuff up would require opening up the telephony stack
Jan 30 14:19:13 <alterego> Sure, but these things are mostly open in MeeGo
Jan 30 14:19:14 <DocScrutinizer> just because they suck
Jan 30 14:19:28 <alterego> At least in MeeGo we have working free user space apps :)
Jan 30 14:19:47 <JJ_Bram> Great...but I don't have the money for a new phone and I like this one lol. Plus who knows when they will actually have a meego phone out.
Jan 30 14:20:02 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jan 30 14:20:19 <alterego> JJ_Bram: I run MeeGo on an N900
Jan 30 14:20:25 <DocScrutinizer> and N900-meego isn't really ready for primetime as I get it
Jan 30 14:20:36 <alterego> No, definitely not prime time ready :)
Jan 30 14:20:57 <JJ_Bram> alterego, you said the contacts lib was open source, does that mean it can be replaced? Is it just a framework or would I be able to make changes in it?
Jan 30 14:21:05 <alterego> But tbh, meego-handset with all the FOSS stuff isn't really ready for primetime. The UX just isn't brilliant in the apps department yet.
Jan 30 14:21:20 <alterego> JJ_Bram: no, because then the contacts app will not work.
Jan 30 14:21:34 <alterego> Well, depending how contacts app is written.
Jan 30 14:21:50 <alterego> We have the ability to add items into the contacts app menu bar though, which is useful for something like this ..
Jan 30 14:22:02 <DocScrutinizer> probably you don't want to replace backend anyway
Jan 30 14:22:07 <DocScrutinizer> rather frontend
Jan 30 14:22:19 <alterego> Exactly, there's no point in replacing backend as it's all open anyway.
Jan 30 14:22:57 <DocScrutinizer> and I hate the idea of a menu item for assigning a contact to a group
Jan 30 14:23:04 <JJ_Bram> Well right now I need contact group functionality. So either I spend $40 a month and get internet access so I can use gvmax to send group messages from my google voice number or I find a way to get this working. lol
Jan 30 14:23:32 <JJ_Bram> Why do you hate the idea of a menu item for  assigning a contact to a group?
Jan 30 14:23:32 <DocScrutinizer> I'd suggest you go with the 40$
Jan 30 14:23:52 <DocScrutinizer> because that's not how it is supposed to work
Jan 30 14:24:00 <DocScrutinizer> it should be a normal field
Jan 30 14:25:10 <DocScrutinizer> but the lack of ability to define new custom fields forbids a clean approach for that
Jan 30 14:25:47 <alterego> tbh, I don't even like evolution
Jan 30 14:25:57 <jonwil> ok, so I give up reverse engineering GPS then, its too hard
Jan 30 14:26:06 <alterego> A contact database should have the ability to add as many fields with (types) as you want.
Jan 30 14:26:24 <alterego> types should be string, enum, phone number etc.
Jan 30 14:26:43 <alterego> Then we could do what ever we wanted :)
Jan 30 14:28:04 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: ack
Jan 30 14:28:26 <alterego> I'm almost tempted to write one.
Jan 30 14:28:32 <alterego> A semantic contacts database.
Jan 30 14:28:51 <DocScrutinizer> add to that list of generic types a "pim-object"
Jan 30 14:29:27 <JJ_Bram> But then what the heck could we do with it? Would we ever be able to plug it into the basic telephone operations and make it functional?
Jan 30 14:29:32 <DocScrutinizer> like it points to a calendar appointment, e.g for birthday
Jan 30 14:29:37 <alterego> Yeah, then you could attach locations, groups, other contacts (family, friends, cool for facebook integration), calendar entries.
Jan 30 14:29:47 <alterego> :)
Jan 30 14:29:48 <JJ_Bram> (I suppose so given that we have command line ability to make calls etc)
Jan 30 14:29:57 <jonwil> Unless someone wants to write a replacement for rtcom-messaging-ui and rtcom-call-ui, I dont think what you want is possible
Jan 30 14:30:03 <jonwil> not plugging it into the UI
Jan 30 14:30:03 <alterego> Imagine if your phone book had the information from facebook about your friends and your friends friends.
Jan 30 14:30:43 <DocScrutinizer> calendar could have an object field containing a pointer to a contact, subtype phone, if you plan to call that person when the appointment is due
Jan 30 14:31:37 <alterego> You could also, through google or exchange calendar, look at someones shared calendar, so when you attempt to ring them it'd say "Well, actually they're busy at the moment, would you like me to notify when they should be available?"
Jan 30 14:31:41 <JJ_Bram> It might be time for me to bust out my QT interface designer again if you make that db...
Jan 30 14:31:46 <DocScrutinizer> any number of contacts could point to a group contact object
Jan 30 14:32:22 <alterego> Of course, it'd all be habtm, so any number of contacts could associate with any number of other objects.
Jan 30 14:32:32 <JJ_Bram> habtm?
Jan 30 14:32:44 <alterego> "has and belongs to many" it's a relational database term, sorry ;)
Jan 30 14:33:50 <jonwil> ok, so the GPS is going nowhere unless someone with more skills appears or unless Nokia decides to share info.
Jan 30 14:33:59 <DocScrutinizer> look at contacts app, menu. You see three radiobuttons: "ABC" "Status" "LRU"
Jan 30 14:34:34 <DocScrutinizer> add to that arbitrary other filters, like for groups (contacts that have a certain object pointer)
Jan 30 14:35:54 <alterego> Sure, and you can also use all the apps, like calendar, maps etc to link back to contacts.
Jan 30 14:35:56 <DocScrutinizer> err s/LRU/MRU/ (or just RU)
Jan 30 14:36:34 <alterego> So, you look at calendar, 2nd of the 2nd 2010, you see that you're going to the Cambridge MeeGo Network meetup, you see a list of other contacts that are going to the same event, and you can group sms them all.
Jan 30 14:36:41 <alterego> Or group message them on facebook.
Jan 30 14:36:46 <alterego> Or group email.
Jan 30 14:36:47 <alterego> :)
Jan 30 14:37:13 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Jan 30 14:37:22 <JJ_Bram> Well, until you actually have enough motivation/time to build all that out I think I may have come up witha  temporary solution for myself. We can already sync google contacts using the exchange sync, any chance that can bring in contact groups as a list of contacts in them? I can make a basic app that just displays the contact groups from google, allows you to enter an sms and then sends the sms via dbus and just loops through everyone.
Jan 30 14:37:46 <JJ_Bram> Worse case this can be managed completely separately.
Jan 30 14:37:57 <JJ_Bram> *worst
Jan 30 14:37:59 <alterego> JJ_Bram: you'll probably have to do that yes.
Jan 30 14:38:26 <JJ_Bram> All right, now all I need is a free weekend or two.
Jan 30 14:38:50 <JJ_Bram> Is there any way to at least tap into the contacts db?
Jan 30 14:38:52 <DocScrutinizer> JJ_Bram: there's no UI and no concept at all in contacts frontend for that. I'd not even see how it would import and display groups
Jan 30 14:39:24 <alterego> JJ_Bram: you can talk to it directly through evolution or hte contacts lib.
Jan 30 14:39:36 <JJ_Bram> DocScrutinizer, Yeah, I'm getting that. It'd have to be entirely separate.
Jan 30 14:40:07 <JJ_Bram> So I could build a menu that lets you go through current contacts, select them, and add them to a  group then?
Jan 30 14:40:37 <alterego> Yes
Jan 30 14:40:41 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Jan 30 14:40:53 <alterego> But how would you know, afterwards, what groups a contact was in?
Jan 30 14:40:55 <JJ_Bram> (groups being something like a flat file list of names/numbers for now witha  title)
Jan 30 14:41:45 <JJ_Bram> What's the easiest db to use here? I don't like the idea of a flat file db too much.
Jan 30 14:41:57 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: as an extremely nasty botch you could add special comment fields to a contact
Jan 30 14:42:10 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: yeah, I suppose that'd work.
Jan 30 14:42:20 <DocScrutinizer> or a "nickname"
Jan 30 14:42:24 <alterego> Or you could cycle through ever avatar image and add your group icon to it :D
Jan 30 14:42:32 <alterego> s/ever/every
Jan 30 14:42:47 <JJ_Bram> I was just thinking click on the group name in the app and it gives a list of contacts in it.
Jan 30 14:43:02 <JJ_Bram> You can only use/edit it from there anyway...
Jan 30 14:43:04 <alterego> JJ_Bram: yeah, you should be able to do that in your own "groups" app
Jan 30 14:43:13 <DocScrutinizer> I suggested the avatar img approach to barisione for his contact-ringtones
Jan 30 14:43:14 <JJ_Bram> Right.
Jan 30 14:43:47 <JJ_Bram> If I built this do you think people would want it?
Jan 30 14:43:54 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Jan 30 14:44:20 <DocScrutinizer> it's be nice anyway if it would base on contacts backend though
Jan 30 14:44:26 <JJ_Bram> Alright, well then, I know what I'm doing when I get my phone back from nokia repair.
Jan 30 14:44:53 <jonwil> hmmm, I know what I could reverse engineer. I could reverse engineer those bits of the WiFi stuff that are still closed source in meego (libwl1251, libppu, wl1251-cal)
Jan 30 14:45:00 <ArGGu^^> why I get error 'QValueSpaceSubscriber' was not declared in this scope. I have added all should be needed to .pro file and included the QValueSpaceSubscriber
Jan 30 14:45:18 <alterego> Hah, just ordered something from vodafone.co.uk and the order number starts with "O2"
Jan 30 14:45:22 * alterego chuckles
Jan 30 14:45:31 <DocScrutinizer> WTF?! those are closed in meEgo?!
Jan 30 14:45:36 <jonwil> yes they are
Jan 30 14:45:46 <jonwil> presumably because of TI NDA for wifi chip
Jan 30 14:45:59 <jonwil> or FCC regs regarding wifi configs
Jan 30 14:46:19 <jonwil> i.e. the need to have stuff in the CAL related to each individual device wifi chip
Jan 30 14:46:25 <DocScrutinizer> nah, FCC is unlikely to interfere here
Jan 30 14:47:15 <DocScrutinizer> LOL for the CAL shit
Jan 30 14:47:44 <jonwil> maybe I will clone libcal whilst I am at it...
Jan 30 14:47:52 <jonwil> libcal isnt majorly complex
Jan 30 14:47:58 <jonwil> just closed for whatever Nokia reason
Jan 30 14:48:04 <DocScrutinizer> yeah
Jan 30 14:48:22 <DocScrutinizer> though I heard it's been replaced by system-info or whatever
Jan 30 14:48:31 <jonwil> on meego libcal still exists
Jan 30 14:49:02 <jonwil> its used by that wifi daemon if nothing else
Jan 30 14:49:07 <DocScrutinizer> probably still needed for bme :-P
Jan 30 14:49:25 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: most certainly.
Jan 30 14:49:29 <jonwil> bme isnt using libcal
Jan 30 14:49:46 <DocScrutinizer> duh?
Jan 30 14:50:13 <jonwil> oh wait it is
Jan 30 14:50:15 <jonwil> my mistake
Jan 30 14:50:20 <jonwil> I was looking at the wrong package
Jan 30 14:50:55 <jonwil> so based on the current meego-closed-bins the only users there of libcal are bme and wl1251-cal
Jan 30 14:51:11 <jonwil> some of the open stuff may also use it
Jan 30 14:51:14 <jonwil> like dsme
Jan 30 14:51:26 <DocScrutinizer> for historical reasons
Jan 30 14:52:18 <jonwil> in any case I think cloning libcal, wl1251-cal, libppu and libwl1251 might be worth doing
Jan 30 14:52:22 <jonwil> as they are all used on meego
Jan 30 14:52:24 <jonwil> and all closed
Jan 30 14:52:28 <DocScrutinizer> afaik dsme is just reading thermic profile from CAL
Jan 30 14:53:06 <lxp1> jonwil: i recently ported the netlink interface used by libwl1251/wl1251-cal to the wireless-testing wl1251 driver
Jan 30 14:53:23 <DocScrutinizer> seems they had a thermo mgmt profile for certification purposes, and a normal one X-P
Jan 30 14:53:40 <jonwil> so is cloning that set of packages worth it or not?
Jan 30 14:53:46 <DocScrutinizer> sure
Jan 30 14:54:13 <DocScrutinizer> you might want to chat with lxm(?) though
Jan 30 14:54:25 <DocScrutinizer> lxp :-D
Jan 30 14:54:35 <jonwil> lxp is?
Jan 30 14:54:55 <lxp1> < self-claimed wl1251 driver hacker
Jan 30 14:54:56 <DocScrutinizer> ...a nice and nifty hacker
Jan 30 14:55:28 <pupnik> heh lxp1 nice
Jan 30 14:55:30 <lxp1> i got monitor mode and packet injection working with wl1251
Jan 30 14:55:57 <DocScrutinizer> lxp1: how's battle going at the warez front?
Jan 30 14:56:37 <jonwil> I think the goal should be to replace closed bins in MeeGo with open source clones wherever possible
Jan 30 14:56:44 <jonwil> either by reverse engineering the closed bins
Jan 30 14:56:52 <jonwil> or building something functionally equivilant
Jan 30 14:58:42 <DocScrutinizer> yeah. given the fact those drivers of lxp1 are open source, I can't see why the libs are closed on meego
Jan 30 14:59:16 <jonwil> probably those wl1251 bits are closed because they contain info thats under TI NDA
Jan 30 14:59:39 <lxp1> jonwil: i don't think so
Jan 30 14:59:46 <pupnik> how is wl1251 reliability / speed working for you lxp1 ?
Jan 30 15:00:32 <DocScrutinizer> time for 12648430
Jan 30 15:00:43 <lxp1> reliability is good for me, speed could be better, but i haven't tried optimizing it so far
Jan 30 15:01:36 <DocScrutinizer> lxp1: may I ask how you managed to gather the required info/knowledge to implement that inj/moni modes?
Jan 30 15:01:38 <lxp1> jonwil: as far as i know wl1251-cal only does read the calibration data through libcal and loads it into firmware through the wl1251 netlink interface
Jan 30 15:01:49 <javispedro> it's the CAL area format what Nokia wants to protect, for some reason.
Jan 30 15:01:57 <lxp1> DocScrutinizer: try and error
Jan 30 15:02:03 <DocScrutinizer> respect
Jan 30 15:02:22 <lxp1> + reading some header files
Jan 30 15:02:26 <jonwil> well cloning the relavent stuff shouldn't be rocket science
Jan 30 15:02:43 <lxp1> mostly already included in wl1251, but partly also from the tiwlan opensource driver
Jan 30 15:03:01 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: which is absolute braindead notion of them
Jan 30 15:03:40 <javispedro> and probably already fully known by now, isn't it? :P
Jan 30 15:03:43 <lxp1> libwl1251 also implements some production line testing code
Jan 30 15:03:54 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: prolly yes
Jan 30 15:04:28 <DocScrutinizer> lxp1: heh
Jan 30 15:05:20 <lxp1> maybe libwl1251 also implements the wl1251 calibration data generation (which may be covered by TI NDA)
Jan 30 15:07:37 <jonwil> only users of libwl2141 on Fremantle are wl2151-cal and testserver
Jan 30 15:07:49 <jonwil> testserver being the production line test thing
Jan 30 15:08:51 <lxp1> yeah, i think testserver is used for calibration data generation and saving it to cal space
Jan 30 15:09:22 <lxp1> wl1251-cal then only loads the saved calibration data
Jan 30 15:09:33 <jonwil> probably hence why testserver is closed and why a bunch of the stuff it uses (like libwl1251
Jan 30 15:09:35 <jonwil> is also closed
Jan 30 15:12:22 <DocScrutinizer> and isn't it funny they ship this testserver with standard maemo image?
Jan 30 15:12:49 <lxp1> by the way, has already someone tried to use an external usb wlan card with the N900?
Jan 30 15:13:16 <DocScrutinizer> umm, should
Jan 30 15:13:50 <DocScrutinizer> I seem to recall somebody trying to build the needed drivers for his wlan-dongle
Jan 30 15:14:03 <lxp1> i am planning to package compat-wireless for kernel-power
Jan 30 15:14:08 <alterego> I managed to build mine in scratchbox, haven't tested yet though.
Jan 30 15:14:24 <alterego> I don't have a usb host capable kernel at the moment.
Jan 30 15:14:35 <alterego> I guess now I have 2 N900s I can sacrifice one to it ;)
Jan 30 15:14:35 <DocScrutinizer> lxp1: you mean h-e-n kernel? :-P
Jan 30 15:14:50 <lxp1> yeah
Jan 30 15:14:55 <lxp1> i haven't tested host mode at all
Jan 30 15:15:10 <jonwil> why would you want to use an external wlan with n900?
Jan 30 15:15:41 <DocScrutinizer> heh, we'Re developers, we don't test other shit - we test our own crap ;-D
Jan 30 15:15:57 <lxp1> maybe because the internal card is not powerful enough ;)
Jan 30 15:15:59 <pupnik> oh really
Jan 30 15:17:28 <DocScrutinizer> lxp1: for all that matters to your usecase anyway, h-e-n "just works"
Jan 30 15:17:54 <DocScrutinizer> i.e. nothing h-e-n related to test there
Jan 30 15:18:52 <lxp1> that's good to hear
Jan 30 15:19:56 <DocScrutinizer> well, on a second thought that's not entirely correct. There are limitations in badwidth mgmnt of USB, and isochronous mode, with h-e-n
Jan 30 15:20:50 <DocScrutinizer> I don't think that's relevant to a WLAN dongle, but who knows
Jan 30 15:20:53 <lxp1> jonwil: i am just thinking about if the whole libwl1251/wl1251-cal stuff can be replaced by something else
Jan 30 15:21:19 <lxp1> because i am afraid the wl1251 netlink interface will not be accepted upstream
Jan 30 15:21:33 <lxp1> (linux kernel)
Jan 30 15:21:40 <javispedro> lxp1: maybe it just reads reg/value pairs from cal and writes them to wl12xx =)
Jan 30 15:21:41 <DocScrutinizer> :-/ why?
Jan 30 15:22:02 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: it's a propietary driver "bypass"-like thing.
Jan 30 15:22:34 <lxp1> normally the calibration data file (wl1251-nvs) is read from disk
Jan 30 15:22:48 <lxp1> that's what is already implemented in the upstream driver
Jan 30 15:23:27 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, should be easy enough to read out the calib data from CAL, maybe via strace, and write it to such a file
Jan 30 15:23:37 <lxp1> and the netlink interface is practically only used to push this nvs file into the driver
Jan 30 15:23:57 <jonwil> in any case I think the best way is to clone these things (so we understand the format of the relavent data) and then we can figure out what we do with the clone later
Jan 30 15:24:06 <jonwil> this will at least document the stuff in the CAL
Jan 30 15:24:20 <DocScrutinizer> good point
Jan 30 15:24:28 <lxp1> yeah there is another odd thing, what was the main reason to port this netlink interface to wireless-testing
Jan 30 15:24:29 <javispedro> "clone"?
Jan 30 15:24:47 <DocScrutinizer> RE
Jan 30 15:24:52 <lxp1> the wl1251 driver generates a random mac address while loading
Jan 30 15:25:04 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Jan 30 15:25:05 <javispedro> and how does the upstream one get its mac?
Jan 30 15:25:17 <lxp1> it doesn't get it at all on the n900
Jan 30 15:25:22 <lxp1> that's why i ported the netlink interface
Jan 30 15:25:36 <lxp1> the mac address is later set by wl1251-cal
Jan 30 15:25:44 <lxp1> which reads it from cal space
Jan 30 15:25:47 <javispedro> yeah, but I ponder what's the upstreamy way
Jan 30 15:25:56 <javispedro> ifconfig hwaddr ....
Jan 30 15:25:56 <javispedro> ?
Jan 30 15:26:01 <lxp1> and wl1251-cal is called by wlancond
Jan 30 15:26:31 <DocScrutinizer> let me guess.. closed as well
Jan 30 15:26:32 <lxp1> usually the mac address should be read by the driver from some eeprom
Jan 30 15:26:41 <lxp1> wlancond is open
Jan 30 15:26:44 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: no, wlancond is open.
Jan 30 15:27:05 <javispedro> it does little stuff though, even less since fremantle.
Jan 30 15:27:20 <DocScrutinizer> well, CAL *is* a sortof eeprom ;-)
Jan 30 15:27:50 <lxp1> yeah, but how to read cal from a kernel driver?
Jan 30 15:28:15 * javispedro thinks that is a no go either.
Jan 30 15:28:27 <DocScrutinizer> it's probably easy, but not feasible for Nokia as they'd need to open up the source then ;-D
Jan 30 15:28:50 <alterego> Well, they can't open up cal
Jan 30 15:29:00 <alterego> As it has all sorts of things that are there for security.
Jan 30 15:29:22 <alterego> Isn't all the lock code stuff in CAL?
Jan 30 15:29:24 <javispedro> also I guess it's shared with some symbian devices
Jan 30 15:29:48 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, BS. And you can get rid of it by simply doing a >/dev/mtdblk3 or sth
Jan 30 15:30:02 <javispedro> indeed =)
Jan 30 15:30:22 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: actually lockcode is stored in CAL as well
Jan 30 15:30:26 <jonwil> well a clone of libcal may be on my todo list...
Jan 30 15:30:36 <jonwil> which would make that issue a moot point :P
Jan 30 15:30:41 <javispedro> na
Jan 30 15:30:51 <javispedro> cal is a record-structured storage area
Jan 30 15:30:55 <javispedro> and libcal probably handles that
Jan 30 15:31:05 <javispedro> how each record is structured is probably left to the individual callers
Jan 30 15:31:10 <jonwil> yeah good point
Jan 30 15:32:41 <DocScrutinizer> and CAL is OS agnostic. The flasher tools used by service centers are the same for all Nokia phones - that's why a lot of stupid meaningless things are stored to it, to keep compatibility with SOP in service centers. See ALS calibration
Jan 30 15:33:24 <javispedro> in fact, I kinda remember libcal got opened....... :S
Jan 30 15:33:41 <DocScrutinizer> I still keep to suggest comaring CAL to uBoot's ENV
Jan 30 15:33:46 <alterego> Are you saying it might be possible to unlock an N900 that has a lock code?
Jan 30 15:34:03 <javispedro> hm..
Jan 30 15:34:10 <javispedro> but meego still considers it a blob so I guess it never happened...
Jan 30 15:34:12 <javispedro> ( http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/non-oss/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/ )
Jan 30 15:34:16 <javispedro> ^^^ list of blobs in meego btw
Jan 30 15:34:20 <alterego> MeeGo doesn't handle lock codes :)
Jan 30 15:34:27 <alterego> Yeah
Jan 30 15:34:29 <javispedro> yeah I'm talking about libcal itself
Jan 30 15:34:54 <alterego> I have that page being monitored for liblocation btw :)
Jan 30 15:35:00 <javispedro> I'm quite sure It was once put as an example of something that got opened (libcal)
Jan 30 15:35:04 <alterego> As it should be popping up quite soon :)
Jan 30 15:35:07 * javispedro looks it up..
Jan 30 15:35:26 <javispedro> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4874#c6
Jan 30 15:35:30 <povbot> Bug 4874: Publically document CAL config entries in /dev/mtd1 config area
Jan 30 15:35:37 <javispedro> stskeeps you lier
Jan 30 15:36:08 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 (lockcode)
Jan 30 15:36:17 <alterego> Hah
Jan 30 15:36:29 <javispedro> alterego: liblocation? why? I though gypsy was being touted as the replacement??
Jan 30 15:36:44 <alterego> javispedro: and on the N900 it has a liblocation backend.
Jan 30 15:36:56 <javispedro> and they're opening the liblocation stack?
Jan 30 15:36:58 <alterego> javispedro: for agps support, obviously
Jan 30 15:37:02 <alterego> No
Jan 30 15:37:03 <javispedro> ah
Jan 30 15:37:06 <javispedro> ok
Jan 30 15:37:10 <alterego> Hence why I'm waiting for it to be in that closed area.
Jan 30 15:37:15 <javispedro> yes, another blob, that makes sense =)
Jan 30 15:37:33 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: guess what's the value at that AES(?) key's location in a virgin N900!  --  12345!
Jan 30 15:37:39 <alterego> javispedro: I don't know whether the intention is that the GPS in MeeGo N900 is to be open, we all want it to be, but it depends on the Nokia guys doing it.
Jan 30 15:37:43 <DocScrutinizer> verbatim!
Jan 30 15:38:00 <javispedro> alterego: It will never be open. Nokia has "strategic interest" in their location stuff.
Jan 30 15:38:11 <alterego> javispedro: maybe ..
Jan 30 15:38:19 <javispedro> they probably don't want us to know they send nearest Wi-Fi AP's BSSIDs along with geocoordinates every few seconds.
Jan 30 15:38:20 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: that is brilliant.
Jan 30 15:38:25 <javispedro> (like google does btw)
Jan 30 15:38:39 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: so basically, lock_code is meaningless on the N900 now for us :)
Jan 30 15:39:20 <DocScrutinizer> as soon as you teach 0xFFFF to alter arbitrary CAL records, yes
Jan 30 15:39:55 <alterego> Well, once you've cracked the lock code, you can use it ..
Jan 30 15:40:08 <alterego> We don't need to write it, can use the UI to write it once you've unlocked it.
Jan 30 15:40:25 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, it's enough to read out arbitrary (or all) CAL records
Jan 30 15:40:32 <javispedro> heh
Jan 30 15:40:44 <javispedro> stupid, stupid.
Jan 30 15:40:56 <DocScrutinizer> still you need a way to do that, via NOLO
Jan 30 15:41:46 <jonwil> I think the most likely outcome re GPS would be for Nokia to document the phonet/isi messages for GPS, if anything. Anything sensitive or related to their "product differentiation" stuff would either be closed source in the cell modem or closed source in the userspace libs
Jan 30 15:42:36 <alterego> jonwil: again, don't care about isi
Jan 30 15:42:37 <DocScrutinizer> ack
Jan 30 15:42:43 <alterego> Just need the navilink protocol
Jan 30 15:42:52 <javispedro> hum
Jan 30 15:42:56 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: eh?
Jan 30 15:43:03 <javispedro> it would be useful for n8x0, but n900? cellmo probably abstracts it..
Jan 30 15:43:12 <alterego> Really?
Jan 30 15:43:14 <alterego> Oh :/
Jan 30 15:43:15 <DocScrutinizer> you bet it does
Jan 30 15:43:15 <jonwil> you cant talk to the GPS on the N900 except by sending the cellmo isi packets
Jan 30 15:43:18 <javispedro> well, it might have a bypass mode =)
Jan 30 15:43:26 <javispedro> (who knows...)
Jan 30 15:43:29 <alterego> javispedro: that's what I was hoping.
Jan 30 15:43:34 <jonwil> and no I doubt there is a way to directly talk to the GPS chip
Jan 30 15:43:35 <DocScrutinizer> javispedro knows
Jan 30 15:43:37 <DocScrutinizer> :-D
Jan 30 15:43:38 <alterego> Wait, so we have navilink protocol
Jan 30 15:43:51 <javispedro> hum?
Jan 30 15:44:01 <alterego> We just can't talk directly to the GPS serial port as the cellmo is in the way.
Jan 30 15:44:06 <DocScrutinizer> or maybe jacekowski knows even better
Jan 30 15:44:18 <alterego> Makes sense, for some reason I'd not actually considered that being what was going on :D
Jan 30 15:44:28 <javispedro> well.
Jan 30 15:44:29 <alterego> So we're talking lame Nokia GPS protocol.
Jan 30 15:44:37 <javispedro> I'm not sure we have full navilink proto either.
Jan 30 15:44:44 <alterego> When we reverse engineered that stuff on the wiki.
Jan 30 15:45:00 <alterego> javispedro: I thought we were using the TI navilink based GPS chip?
Jan 30 15:45:10 <javispedro> yes, but we don't know that proto either.
Jan 30 15:45:19 <DocScrutinizer> the "datasheet" of the GPS chip doesn't mention navilink
Jan 30 15:45:23 <SpeedEvil> alterego: I am unsure there is a 'standalone' GPS chip.
Jan 30 15:45:37 <SpeedEvil> alterego: I suspect it's using the cellmo for a baseband processor.
Jan 30 15:45:49 <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: definitely
Jan 30 15:45:54 <SpeedEvil> Snooping the I2C bus of the GPS in principle would confirm this
Jan 30 15:45:59 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: oh, that's news for me :S. So it's not a TI chip?
Jan 30 15:46:09 <alterego> I heard it was a TI chip
Jan 30 15:46:11 <DocScrutinizer> err it is
Jan 30 15:46:18 <alterego> I heard it was a Navilink 5350
Jan 30 15:46:21 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: I think it's something like http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/3447
Jan 30 15:46:31 <SpeedEvil> which is a rather dumb RF front-end chip
Jan 30 15:47:28 <SpeedEvil> That just gives a few mbps bitstream and lets the baseband do all the hard signal processing stuff, completley digitally
Jan 30 15:48:03 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, I mixed navilink with NMEA
Jan 30 15:48:33 <alterego> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS
Jan 30 15:48:46 <DocScrutinizer> http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12776&contentId=30978&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=Other+OT+navilink_5
Jan 30 15:48:47 <alterego> So, this says it's a TO GPS5030 navilink 5
Jan 30 15:48:52 <alterego> s/TO/TI
Jan 30 15:50:31 <javispedro> (you might want to look up "gpsdriver" in this channel's logs if you're interested in the N8x0 GPS stuff, also TI, connected via UART to SoC directly instead of cellmo)
Jan 30 15:51:22 <javispedro> I don't remember anyone going very far though... gpsdriver on N8x0 was much more of a beast than the location stack on N900 seemingly.
Jan 30 15:52:24 <dm8tbr> javispedro: was it also a nl5350?
Jan 30 15:52:44 <DocScrutinizer> >> Optimized to interface with TI’s 3G chipsets and OMAP™ processors to deliver a complete solution for handset OEMs<< makes me think it's actually offloading calculation to baseband or APE
Jan 30 15:53:02 <javispedro> dm8tbr: I don't remember =)
Jan 30 15:53:43 <dm8tbr> DocScrutinizer: Archos generation7 hardware has the nl5350 connected to UART1 of the OMAP34xx and there is a android gpsd
Jan 30 15:53:51 <javispedro> iirc TI gps5xxx something =)
Jan 30 15:54:07 <javispedro> dm8tbr: free?
Jan 30 15:54:12 <dm8tbr> mwahaha
Jan 30 15:54:15 <javispedro> :(
Jan 30 15:54:21 <DocScrutinizer> plus the fact this N8x0 driver is (C) TI afaik, and a huge blob that seems to massively draw cpu cycles while GPSing
Jan 30 15:54:34 <chx> softmodem of a sort?
Jan 30 15:54:37 <dm8tbr> I mentioned already that TI officially said that everything will stay NDA
Jan 30 15:54:51 <chx> ie as there is no cellmo to offload the processing to, it does it in software
Jan 30 15:55:15 <dm8tbr> I could check the sysload on the archos when GPS is on
Jan 30 15:56:05 <alterego> Okay, so what we really want is this crap Nokia GPS interface then.
Jan 30 15:56:22 <DocScrutinizer> called ISI 0x59
Jan 30 15:56:27 <alterego> :)
Jan 30 15:56:42 <alterego> Who wants to submit the bug on bugs.meego.com ?
Jan 30 15:56:44 <DocScrutinizer> as jonwil mentioned some lines above
Jan 30 15:57:08 <alterego> I think it'd be nice to have all of the GPS related messages to be honest ;)
Jan 30 15:57:37 <dm8tbr> JFTR:  1643  1642 1000     S      720   0%   1% /usr/bin/nl5350-gpsd -u /dev/ttyS1
Jan 30 15:57:52 <dm8tbr> doesn't look like heavy CPU load
Jan 30 15:58:04 <jonwil> well what we need is documentation for all the messages that can be sent to resource 0x54 (which is the GPS resource)
Jan 30 15:58:10 <javispedro> dm8tbr: wait for lock
Jan 30 15:58:18 <jonwil> the worst Nokia can do if we ask for it is to say no
Jan 30 15:58:20 <dm8tbr> mkay, need to move to the window then
Jan 30 15:58:21 <alterego> I still reckon there's probably a way to get phonet to allow you to talk directly to the serial though
Jan 30 15:58:37 <javispedro> dm8tbr: either way, it was ~10% on N8x0, so on OMAP3 it might be indetectable :(
Jan 30 15:58:53 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: nope - the worst is what they always do: say nothing, and close as wontfix after 9 months
Jan 30 15:59:07 <jonwil> either way, it cant hurt to ask
Jan 30 15:59:12 <DocScrutinizer> yep
Jan 30 15:59:15 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: we have it open on MeeGo, we have it open opn Maemo, request on bugs.meego.com
Jan 30 15:59:45 <alterego> And, everyone wants the GPS stuff to be open on meego N900
Jan 30 15:59:59 <alterego> The reason we're using liblocation et al is time and effort.
Jan 30 16:00:09 <alterego> If the specs were opened the community could work on it.
Jan 30 16:02:40 <jonwil> yeah if the isi/phonet interface for GPS was open, Nokia could retain any special "Secret sauce" they use to differentiate GPS apps (stuff in liblas etc) but community would get open GPS drivers on N900
Jan 30 16:02:45 <jonwil> open GPS daemon that is
Jan 30 16:03:00 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: I tend to agree on that (bridge mode to GPS) - but probably Nokia isn't willing to disclose this
Jan 30 16:03:24 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: yeah, no telling what we could do if we could reverse engineer something like that.
Jan 30 16:03:39 <jonwil> didnt we say N900 contains limited GPS chip that offloads all the work to baseband cellmo?
Jan 30 16:03:48 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: bridge mode inevitably would stop GPS for GSM stealth query
Jan 30 16:03:57 <alterego> jonwil: yes, but we also said there's a software driver implementation :)
Jan 30 16:04:13 <javispedro> (also closed and which might be hardware to ""clone"")
Jan 30 16:04:16 <javispedro> *harder
Jan 30 16:04:19 <RST38h> heya javispedro
Jan 30 16:04:24 <javispedro> uh, double quotes dammit.
Jan 30 16:04:30 <javispedro> morning RST38h
Jan 30 16:05:07 <jonwil> I still think most likely outcome is that Nokia can be persuaded to document isi GPS packets as supported by N900 cellmo
Jan 30 16:05:21 <jonwil> getting any lower level access than that is unlikely
Jan 30 16:05:32 <DocScrutinizer> extremely unlikely
Jan 30 16:05:51 <jonwil> and if we have the isi packets, we dont care about liblocation, liblas, location-proxy, location-daemon etc
Jan 30 16:07:03 * DocScrutinizer sighs and mumbles "if only they'd also disclose how to get service monitor access via ISI"
Jan 30 16:08:05 <DocScrutinizer> hell, we could build a BETTER liblocation or an equivalent service then
Jan 30 16:08:22 <javispedro> dunno
Jan 30 16:08:40 <DocScrutinizer> dunno what?
Jan 30 16:08:48 <alterego> Dunno if we can be arsed ;)
Jan 30 16:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> lol
Jan 30 16:09:51 <javispedro> and agps, and tower triangulation, .. :P
Jan 30 16:10:09 <DocScrutinizer> we could intergrate skyhook and GSM trangulation, even as plugins
Jan 30 16:12:12 <jonwil> does the cellmo expose service monitor stuff via isi?
Jan 30 16:12:28 <DocScrutinizer> probably yes
Jan 30 16:12:55 <jonwil> so is someone going to file a meego bug asking for n900 cellmo GPS packet format?
Jan 30 16:13:12 <alterego> jonwil: like I said, I'll ask on Thursday.
Jan 30 16:13:16 <jonwil> oh ok
Jan 30 16:13:19 <DocScrutinizer> iirc tekojo said the Nokia devels pondered to implement it into probably libisi, when I asked for it
Jan 30 16:13:40 <alterego> What's skyhook?
Jan 30 16:13:50 <jonwil> implementing stuff in libisi doesnt help us as libisi is closed
Jan 30 16:13:52 <jonwil> and headers are closed
Jan 30 16:13:58 <DocScrutinizer> the AP based think that whyPhone used
Jan 30 16:14:08 <DocScrutinizer> thing
Jan 30 16:14:45 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/
Jan 30 16:16:03 * javispedro watches the n900 triple reboot out of a battery empty condition because I forgot to umount nfs
Jan 30 16:19:21 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: whatever it was a lib they pondered to augment to enable service monitor, it was a APE lib, so I guess the cellmo does support it
Jan 30 16:19:33 <jonwil> ok
Jan 30 16:19:58 <DocScrutinizer> but of course it's not documented I bet
Jan 30 16:20:45 <jonwil> well the things they document appear to be
Jan 30 16:20:47 <jonwil> SMS resource
Jan 30 16:20:50 <DocScrutinizer> that's why my hopes are low for seeing SM even in ofono
Jan 30 16:20:56 <jonwil> Supplementary Services resource
Jan 30 16:21:02 <jonwil> Indication subscription messages
Jan 30 16:21:06 <jonwil> Circuit Switched Data
Jan 30 16:21:10 <jonwil> General Packet Radio System server
Jan 30 16:21:13 <jonwil> GSM Stack server
Jan 30 16:21:17 <jonwil> Universal Integrated Circuit Card
Jan 30 16:21:21 <jonwil> Modem AT server
Jan 30 16:21:27 <jonwil> Modem LCS server
Jan 30 16:21:30 <jonwil> Modem Test server
Jan 30 16:21:33 <jonwil> Modem Non Volatile Data server
Jan 30 16:21:38 <jonwil> RF control and tuning server
Jan 30 16:21:41 <jonwil> Modem MCE server
Jan 30 16:21:44 <jonwil> Modem Monitor server
Jan 30 16:21:46 <DocScrutinizer> modem test server??
Jan 30 16:21:47 <jonwil> Modem Info Server
Jan 30 16:21:51 <jonwil> Modem NET server
Jan 30 16:21:54 <jonwil> Modem CALL server
Jan 30 16:21:57 <jonwil> 3GPP GAN Protocol Stack server
Jan 30 16:22:01 <jonwil> Pipe messages
Jan 30 16:22:05 <jonwil> Common RF test server
Jan 30 16:22:08 <jonwil> WCDMA RF test server
Jan 30 16:22:11 <jonwil> GSM test server
Jan 30 16:22:15 <RST38h> please stop
Jan 30 16:22:18 <DocScrutinizer> jonwil: you're rapidly approaching a +q
Jan 30 16:22:23 <jonwil> ok sorry
Jan 30 16:22:28 * alterego chuckles
Jan 30 16:22:38 <alterego> One line would have been enough
Jan 30 16:22:42 <alterego> Or pastie :P
Jan 30 16:22:57 * alterego continues fiddling with his obs vm
Jan 30 16:23:10 <DocScrutinizer> I'd like - really appreciate - to see this list on wiki
Jan 30 16:24:07 <DocScrutinizer> Common RF test server - WTF!
Jan 30 16:24:20 <DocScrutinizer> Modem monitor
Jan 30 16:24:36 <jonwil> Thats just the list of resources as listed in the wireless modem API docs
Jan 30 16:24:49 <jonwil> Can someone with a N900 run this command "dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.phone.net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.get_registration_status" and paste the results?
Jan 30 16:26:18 <DocScrutinizer> sorry, restored a 2yo backup to my router, now all the N900 fixed IPs are gone :-P
Jan 30 16:27:01 <jonwil> hmmm, wl1251-cal is more complex than I thought
Jan 30 16:27:50 <alterego> jonwil: I would but I don't want you knowing my cellid :P
Jan 30 16:28:05 <jonwil> well replace the cellid with all 0s then
Jan 30 16:28:09 <jonwil> or something
Jan 30 16:28:20 <alterego> tbh, I don't mind, hang on
Jan 30 16:28:34 <alterego> Wait, mine is saying "The Feds are on to you, run!"
Jan 30 16:29:00 <DocScrutinizer> ooh, cellid already all 0 ?
Jan 30 16:29:14 <DocScrutinizer> i.e. an imsi catcher?
Jan 30 16:29:35 <DocScrutinizer> encryption A0?
Jan 30 16:29:38 <alterego> http://www.pastie.org/private/cfv21k0bh9u5x8lcsq0lw
Jan 30 16:30:39 <jonwil> I think I shall document everything wl1251-cal reads from (e.g. dbus, cal) and let someone like lxp1 take that info and produce something for MeeGo (and for Maemo-cssu if its appropriate for that)
Jan 30 16:34:13 * MohammadAG curses bouncer down time
Jan 30 16:52:24 <lxp> jonwil: yeah, i already looked up how request_firmware is working. i don't understand the entire system right now, but i think we could remove this nasty netlink interface and replace it with a new wl1251-cal and some udev rules
Jan 30 16:55:34 <jonwil> ok, from the looks of what wl1251-cal is doing, firstly it calls libwl1251_init in libwl1251 passing in the string "wlan0"
Jan 30 16:55:43 <jonwil> it stores the result of this for later use
Jan 30 16:56:24 <jonwil> then it uses dbus to get the cell network country code (if possible)
Jan 30 16:56:49 <jonwil> if thats not possible, it grabs wlan-tx-cost3_0 from the CAL area, does something to it and sends it to libwl1251_nvs_push
Jan 30 16:56:58 <jonwil> if it cant get the CAL area, it uses some kind of default
Jan 30 16:57:21 <jonwil> not sure what nvs is
Jan 30 16:58:05 <lxp> nvs is the calibration data
Jan 30 16:58:58 <lxp> you should also find a calibration data file with default values in /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin
Jan 30 16:59:38 <lxp> i think wl1251-cal somewhere has to read a similar file from cal and push it to the driver
Jan 30 17:00:04 <jonwil> well wl1251-cal is using default data stored inside wl1251-cal binary
Jan 30 17:02:03 <lxp> hmm, that's odd i always thought this calibration data also contains some rf related stuff, which is only valid for exactly that chip and is generated during production
Jan 30 17:04:53 <lxp> but as you describe it it looks like it's only purpose is to limit the available channels to the specific regulation domain
Jan 30 17:05:42 <jonwil> maybe what happens is that the default data is special and is only used once before the cal is populated by the factory test thing
Jan 30 17:07:12 <lxp> yeah that could be, then it would may be the same as in the /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin file
Jan 30 17:07:35 <korhojoa> hey guys
Jan 30 17:07:58 <alterego> Aloha
Jan 30 17:08:01 <korhojoa> is there a wiki page on the sqlite db format of the conversations stuff?
Jan 30 17:08:21 <korhojoa> i'd like to insert my own 'messages' which have never been sent or whatever
Jan 30 17:09:17 <korhojoa> like if there's something like a auth for a service that requires you to send a text to a number so it will reply with your id, even though it never changes, so that you can show it to the staff of some place
Jan 30 17:09:33 <korhojoa> this way i'd save the price of a text message each time i use their service
Jan 30 17:10:19 <jonwil> ok, yeah the default data inside wl1251-cal is the same as wl1251-nvs.bin
Jan 30 17:11:03 <lxp> here is something ob nvs data: http://e2e.ti.com/support/dsp/omap_applications_processors/f/307/p/89217/308916.aspx
Jan 30 17:11:18 <lxp> it is for the wl1271 chip, but i think it should be the same for the wl1251 chip
Jan 30 17:11:45 <lxp> this thread basically says the nvs data contains tx calibration data, so that the correct output power is used
Jan 30 17:12:16 <korhojoa> this could also be a great prank device. insert message about thing y from person x and show to person z, "legit sms"
Jan 30 17:31:48 <jonwil> so yeah I am writing some notes on what wl1251-cal does, hopefyhllt someone (like lxp) can play with it and get something working
Jan 30 17:32:23 <jonwil> but yeah I think the reason wl1251-cal is closed is so that wifi chip is only sent correct settings for country its operating in
Jan 30 17:32:30 <jonwil> and doesnt transmit on channels not allowed
Jan 30 17:32:49 <jonwil> such closed daemons are common with some desktop wifi chips
Jan 30 17:42:41 <jacekowski> jonwil: all it's doing it's reading wlan-mac and wlan-tx-cost3_0
Jan 30 17:43:11 <jonwil> its doing more than that as my wiki entry will soon show :)
Jan 30 17:43:35 <jacekowski> and it is sending it to interface
Jan 30 17:47:50 <jacekowski> nothing else in there
Jan 30 17:47:58 <jacekowski> just straight read from cal and push to interface
Jan 30 17:49:32 <jonwil> trust me, its doing more with the country code stuff related to whether its US or EU (at least the version I am looking at from the meego non-oss repo)
Jan 30 17:49:41 <alterego> 350 packages left to download ..
Jan 30 17:50:01 <jacekowski> trust me
Jan 30 17:51:12 <jacekowski> it goes to same function in the end
Jan 30 17:52:07 <jacekowski> .text:0000933C                 BL      libwl1251_nvs_push
Jan 30 17:52:12 <jacekowski> that's only call to that function
Jan 30 17:52:35 <jacekowski> and it's called straight after data is read from CAL
Jan 30 17:52:53 <jacekowski> .text:000092F8                 BL      read_cal
Jan 30 17:52:54 <jacekowski> .text:000092FC                 CMP     R0, #0
Jan 30 17:52:54 <jacekowski> .text:00009300                 BLT     loc_9634
Jan 30 17:53:23 <jonwil> not in the binary I havde
Jan 30 17:53:30 <jonwil> 00009354                 BL      libwl1251_nvs_push
Jan 30 17:53:33 <jonwil> different address
Jan 30 17:53:51 <jacekowski> i have one from pr1.3
Jan 30 17:54:14 <jacekowski> with global firmware
Jan 30 17:56:40 <jonwil> well this from the meego non-oss repos
Jan 30 17:56:46 <jonwil> which is where the interest is
Jan 30 17:56:47 <pupnik> woo srrmblr
Jan 30 18:01:16 <alterego> Oooo, top gear tonight
Jan 30 18:06:48 <jacekowski> alterego: what time?
Jan 30 18:06:50 * GAN900 has been working through the back catalog on Netflix.
Jan 30 18:07:04 <alterego> 8pm UTC
Jan 30 18:19:59 <jonwil> http://wiki.maemo.org/Wl1251-cal
Jan 30 18:20:17 <jonwil> brain dump for what wl1251-cal on meego non-oss is actually doing
Jan 30 18:20:31 <jonwil> or appears to be doing
Jan 30 18:21:49 <alterego> bbl
Jan 30 18:22:00 <jonwil> Seems to be setting grabbing the nvs data and changing it based on whether its FCC or not FCC
Jan 30 18:22:12 <jonwil> then it sets mac address
Jan 30 18:22:43 <jonwil> then setting either EU or US as appropriate
Jan 30 18:23:08 <jonwil> should be enough info to let someone come up with an open (and preferably in-kernel if possible
Jan 30 18:23:09 <psycho_oreos> yeah that's mac80211 framework
Jan 30 18:23:18 <jonwil> solution for wl1251-cal
Jan 30 18:23:22 <jonwil> on meego at least
Jan 30 18:23:33 <jonwil> if anyone has questions, just let me know
Jan 30 18:31:13 <Failure-Peltonen> Hi
Jan 30 18:31:21 <Failure-Peltonen> I may have asked this before
Jan 30 18:31:40 <Failure-Peltonen> but is it possible to disable smileys on N900? Getting annyoed with tose.
Jan 30 18:31:50 <Failure-Peltonen> i mean smileys on converstations.
Jan 30 18:34:08 <SpeedEvil> yes
Jan 30 18:34:14 <SpeedEvil> I forget where
Jan 30 18:34:18 <SpeedEvil> It's in settings, I think
Jan 30 18:36:23 <Failure-Peltonen> SpeedEvil: Well i self havnt figured it out where..
Jan 30 18:37:02 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I've had a look, and can't find it anywhere
Jan 30 18:39:20 <DocScrutinizer> http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/disabling-smiley-icons-in-conversations-pr1-2/
Jan 30 18:41:04 <jaska> that doesnt show the whole posting for some reason
Jan 30 18:41:07 <Failure-Peltonen> DocScrutinizer: Thanks of the link, but i cant see any "read more" thing and it ends with ...
Jan 30 18:41:08 <jaska> mileys by default, yet [...]
Jan 30 18:41:21 <DocScrutinizer> me neither :-/
Jan 30 18:42:00 <SpeedEvil> http://blog.dawid.lorenz.co/2010/05/disabling-smiley-icons-in-conversations_171.html
Jan 30 18:42:11 <SpeedEvil> All you have to do is edit /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/smilies/user/default.def file and remove all lines under [Smilies] section. Same might be applied to /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/smilies/service/skype.def  (or basically any *.def file within those directories). The next step  is reboot and you have graphical-simley-less device in your hand. Hell  yeah!
Jan 30 18:51:22 <Failure-Peltonen> SpeedEvil: Okay. Better would be just a Disable smileys [X] thing in settings but ill do this. i hate em so much =D
Jan 30 18:52:30 <Failure-Peltonen> SpeedEvil: have to ask, if i do edit that, and then i type ":)" will it be in text or empty?
Jan 30 19:00:33 <lardman> evening all
Jan 30 19:00:39 <lardman> any SQL gurus about|
Jan 30 19:00:40 <lardman> ?
Jan 30 19:00:47 <lardman> ~lart laptop kb
Jan 30 19:00:47 * infobot smacks laptop kb up side the head with a clue-by-4
Jan 30 19:01:13 <alterego> lardman: What are you wanting to di?
Jan 30 19:01:16 <alterego> do ..
Jan 30 19:02:18 <lardman> slightly random, have done some website scraping to get houseprice data and am now writing a app to combine the data for analysis
Jan 30 19:02:36 <lardman> so I want to be able to retrieve records for variable numbers of postcodes
Jan 30 19:02:48 <lardman> and am just wondering how to combine the select query
Jan 30 19:03:53 <lardman> so whether to do separate select for each postcode, and somehow combine (union?) or to do an almighty set of and's in the select statement
Jan 30 19:04:05 <alterego> Heh
Jan 30 19:04:06 <lardman> s/and/or
Jan 30 19:04:43 <lardman> I can do it all in MATLAB, but would prefer to have something more portable, and Octave is rather too slow
Jan 30 19:05:08 <lardman> not helped by not having sufficient memory for all the data
Jan 30 19:05:16 <alterego> Well, I'd imagine a signle sql query will be quicker
Jan 30 19:06:58 <lardman> can I perform calcs in a query? e.g. I have lat lon data for each property, and might want all properties within 100m of my current lat lon?
Jan 30 19:07:34 <lardman> but then I need to calculate the sqrt of the square of the difference between my lat lon and each record's lat lon value
Jan 30 19:08:00 <SpeedEvil> Not really, if you only care about approx.
Jan 30 19:08:16 <lardman> this is the trouble with porting from a quad core machine w/ 8Gb RAM to an N900 ;)
Jan 30 19:08:17 <SpeedEvil> abs(latdiff)+abs(longdiff)<200
Jan 30 19:08:36 <lardman> yeah, but can that be part of the query?
Jan 30 19:08:41 <SpeedEvil> No clue
Jan 30 19:08:50 <lardman> I'll have to do some looking
Jan 30 19:08:56 <SpeedEvil> I learned all I know of SQL from a dog named Sue.
Jan 30 19:09:16 <trx> part of sql query?
Jan 30 19:09:28 <trx> i believe so, it can be
Jan 30 19:09:42 <lardman> I learned it for a stock control app I wrote many years ago, but has been a while and didn't need to combine queries, etc then
Jan 30 19:09:51 <trx> dont know about exact function names rho..
Jan 30 19:09:59 <trx> tho*
Jan 30 19:10:12 <lardman> trx: ok, I'll do some digging then
Jan 30 19:13:06 <SpeedEvil> lardman: http://qkwv.com/tmp/barcodes - all barcodes of stuff sold by tesco - ripped from http://www.techfortesco.com/tescoapiweb/terms.htm
Jan 30 19:13:32 <SpeedEvil> I'm currently trying to do something that will do a sort-by-calorie.
Jan 30 19:13:45 <SpeedEvil> price/calorie
Jan 30 19:13:48 <SpeedEvil> For amusement.
Jan 30 19:15:17 <lardman> SpeedEvil: cool
Jan 30 19:16:31 <lardman> presumably one can query their db directly?
Jan 30 19:16:48 <lardman> Otherwise I could of course grab your page and keep it as a local db
Jan 30 19:17:03 <lardman> as that's what I've spent all weekend doing with house prices
Jan 30 19:18:02 <lardman> SpeedEvil: you know you can get the barcode data via DBus broadcast from mBarcode?
Jan 30 19:18:27 <SpeedEvil> lardman: Do you have a link?
Jan 30 19:18:52 <SpeedEvil> lardman: yes - you sign up for a developer key - and it's a really simple REST query for the barcode to return the product
Jan 30 19:18:57 <lardman> not really, I need to create some docs
Jan 30 19:19:01 <lardman> cool
Jan 30 19:19:10 <lardman> hang on, let me look at the code to tell you the dbus message
Jan 30 19:20:13 <SpeedEvil> http://www.mauve.plus.com/temp/61272362.json is the result you get back from a search
Jan 30 19:21:02 <lardman> QDBusMessage message = QDBusMessage::createSignal(QString("org.maemo.mbarcode"), QString("org.maemo.mbarcode"), QString("BarcodeDecoded"));  is the message sent by mBarcode, with a type and data arguments, both strings
Jan 30 19:21:04 <SpeedEvil> Thanks!
Jan 30 19:21:11 <SpeedEvil> Great.
Jan 30 19:21:49 <lardman> give me a shout if you have any troubles, etc and I'll do fixing
Jan 30 19:22:04 <lardman> will have a look at the Tesco stuff and write a quick Python plugin to test the api
Jan 30 19:22:11 <lardman> so thanks for the pointers :)
Jan 30 19:23:07 <lardman> amazing how I've managed to spend all weekend not achieving much, really frustrating starting to write an app :(
Jan 30 19:23:13 <alterego> lardman: I want that :)
Jan 30 19:23:17 <SpeedEvil> lardman: Do you need to go from postcode-> lat/lon?
Jan 30 19:23:32 <lardman> SpeedEvil: yeah, I've got a db from online
Jan 30 19:23:36 * lardman looks for url
Jan 30 19:23:42 <RST38h> what app?
Jan 30 19:23:46 <alterego> I want tesco bar code support as I pretty much exclusively purchase from Tesco :)
Jan 30 19:23:55 <lardman> http://www.npemap.org.uk/data/
Jan 30 19:24:16 <lardman> alterego: could I persuade you to write a Python plugin for mBarcode then...? ;)
Jan 30 19:24:40 <xnt14____> If any of you guys see MohammadAG, can you tell him to email me?
Jan 30 19:24:44 <alterego> lardman: maybe :&
Jan 30 19:24:52 <lardman> alterego: :D
Jan 30 19:24:56 <alterego> That was meant to be :)
Jan 30 19:25:17 <RST38h> xnt14: how many underscores should he add to your nick when writing to you? =)
Jan 30 19:25:31 <lardman> ok :) well I guess if you're familiar with the apis it should be a 10min job really
Jan 30 19:25:53 <lardman> RST38h: *snigger*
Jan 30 19:26:09 <xnt14____> RST38h: sorry, I'm in NYC atm, Tethering with N900. freenode doesn't let T-Mobile 3G users on, so I'm using webchat and was too lazy to auth to services
Jan 30 19:26:34 <SpeedEvil> alterego: http://www.techfortesco.com/forum/index.php - hit the API docs
Jan 30 19:27:44 <xnt14[laptop]> I have to go now... RST38h, I would appreciate it if you told him if/when you see him. :)
Jan 30 19:27:44 <alterego> SpeedEvil: thanks
Jan 30 19:27:54 * b-man pokes xnt14[laptop] with a long stick
Jan 30 19:28:03 <b-man> damn! xD
Jan 30 19:29:07 * lardman had better fix the python plugin for the new mBarcode api
Jan 30 19:30:00 <Tsuyo> Is there a way to record the N900 screen?
Jan 30 19:30:05 <RST38h> yes.
Jan 30 19:30:10 <lardman> shift-ctrl-p?
Jan 30 19:30:18 <lardman> or -s?
Jan 30 19:30:22 <lardman> or something iirc
Jan 30 19:30:31 <SpeedEvil> Insert video out plug, and connect to VCR
Jan 30 19:31:38 <Tsuyo> well shift-ctrl-p just creates a screenshot. I want to make a small Video directly, without the video cable
Jan 30 19:31:51 <alterego> Tsuyo: no, unfortunately not.
Jan 30 19:32:07 <SpeedEvil> the cpu-applet thing does that I think?
Jan 30 19:32:11 <SpeedEvil> Never used it
Jan 30 19:32:29 <lardman> Tsuyo: though afaicr you should be able to create a gst pipeline which grabs the fb output
Jan 30 19:32:33 <chx> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32562
Jan 30 19:32:57 <SpeedEvil> http://maemo.org/packages/view/load-applet/
Jan 30 19:33:09 <Tsuyo> Thanks :p
Jan 30 19:33:32 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: SQL query? sure you can use all sorts of equations and functions there
Jan 30 19:33:49 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: any pointers?
Jan 30 19:34:00 <lardman> using QtSql
Jan 30 19:34:05 <DocScrutinizer> not really, too trivial
Jan 30 19:34:16 <lardman> humour me! :p
Jan 30 19:34:22 <lardman> :)
Jan 30 19:34:52 <lardman> so you can embed an equation to be evaluated in the query?
Jan 30 19:35:07 <chx> reading that thread x11vnc works beter than load-applet
Jan 30 19:35:46 <lardman> e.g. (current_lat - record_lat)^2 + (current_lon - record_lon)^2 <= radius_squared ?
Jan 30 19:36:10 <DocScrutinizer> select sqrt(lat**2 + lon**2) as dist from bla where (dist < 200)
Jan 30 19:36:35 <lardman> ah, cool, so I can define temp vars in the query
Jan 30 19:36:51 <RST38h> not temp vars, but names, yes
Jan 30 19:37:28 <RST38h> and do not expect this query to be fast
Jan 30 19:37:32 <lardman> so can I insert a fixed value into the above?
Jan 30 19:38:49 <lardman> probably no slower than performing the same calc in the C++ code after the values are returned though I guess
Jan 30 19:39:53 <RST38h> that is not the reason
Jan 30 19:40:31 <RST38h> having a weird selection condition like that will most likely prevent the server from using indices
Jan 30 19:41:02 <lardman> unfortunately all of the queries will be formed like that
Jan 30 19:41:45 <lardman> an alternative is to use rough boxing in the select query, then perform the accurate stuff once the records are returned
Jan 30 19:42:16 <RST38h> Yes, having an inner select like that will most likely help things
Jan 30 19:43:00 <lardman> ok, but perform a select on the return of the first select?
Jan 30 19:43:12 <lardman> or do that in C++ on the returned data?
Jan 30 19:43:27 <lardman> the former I guess
Jan 30 19:43:32 <lardman> makes using the data easier
Jan 30 19:46:21 <lardman> going back to DocScrutinizer's suggestion, while that will give me the distance from (0,0), how do I find the distance from (my_lat, my_lon)?
Jan 30 19:49:03 <piggz> what is the deal with this flash 10.1 for maemo someone just tweeted? http://www.renegade-uiq.com/adobe-flash-10.1-maemo5.tar.gz.torrent
Jan 30 19:51:04 <lardman> I'd hazard a guess that it's rubbish
Jan 30 19:51:44 <wmarone> or it's that TI released thing repackaged
Jan 30 19:52:24 <lardman> I'd expect to hear about that somewhere other than a torrent though...?
Jan 30 19:52:39 <piggz> lardman: or twitter ;)
Jan 30 19:52:53 <piggz> this is the guys site http://www.renegade-uiq.com/
Jan 30 19:53:09 <piggz> seems he's pro-maemo
Jan 30 19:53:45 <lardman> hmm, dunno then, give it a go
Jan 30 19:53:50 <lardman> but be careful
Jan 30 19:54:27 <piggz> im not installing it just yet...i just got my n900 back and want to see how long it stays up to make sure its fixed
Jan 30 19:54:36 <piggz> i am seeding no tho
Jan 30 19:54:40 <piggz> s/now
Jan 30 19:55:00 <lardman> what's in the torrent?
Jan 30 19:55:14 <piggz> my uptime is now ~3 days...almost a best!
Jan 30 19:55:19 * piggz looking
Jan 30 19:55:47 <piggz> a libflashplayer.so and a readme
Jan 30 19:56:38 <lardman> hmm, well you never know
Jan 30 19:56:40 <piggz> the readme doesnt contain much http://pastebin.com/6T90Xick
Jan 30 19:57:26 <lardman> doesn't need much really
Jan 30 19:57:51 <lardman> should be fairly straight forward to wrap the released version, if so, good on who ever did it
Jan 30 19:58:08 <piggz> the string ti occurs quite a lot in the 'strings' output
Jan 30 19:58:15 <piggz> so i guess its that version
Jan 30 19:58:22 <alterego> It's not optimized though is it ..
Jan 30 19:58:53 <alterego> And doesn't have msgx optimization.
Jan 30 19:59:01 <alterego> .. sgx ..
Jan 30 19:59:01 <lardman> dunno, what was the original target? OMAP4 unaccelerated?
Jan 30 20:00:05 <alterego> No idea :)
Jan 30 20:00:30 <jacekowski> piggz: it's useless
Jan 30 20:00:43 <jacekowski> piggz: no acceleration
Jan 30 20:00:46 <piggz> ah well, nevermind
Jan 30 20:00:52 <chx> yes OMAP4
Jan 30 20:01:18 <chx> whether there is more i do not know but the original news was about omap4 ti flash
Jan 30 20:01:43 <lardman> interesting that it was unaccelerated though
Jan 30 20:03:59 <alterego> top gear :)
Jan 30 20:04:13 * alterego idles
Jan 30 20:04:23 * lardman is recording, stuck with Candleford .... :(
Jan 30 20:05:05 <eichi> is there an easy way, to make some kind of "beep" on n900 with terminal in maemo5? i want something like command && beep
Jan 30 20:05:07 * SpeedEvil imagines that being Clarksons theme.
Jan 30 20:05:12 <SpeedEvil> Candle + ford
Jan 30 20:05:51 <lardman> I would prefer to see burning cars than this twaddle, but no, bbc ch1 Candleford
Jan 30 20:07:05 * alterego wants that transit
Jan 30 20:07:54 <lardman> last time I drive a van it was quite nice and relaxing, high up and not very fast, all good
Jan 30 20:08:07 <lardman> but always better to have something quick :)
Jan 30 20:08:11 <lardman> hey lcuk
Jan 30 20:08:38 <lcuk> hi lardman \o
Jan 30 20:09:05 <lardman> lcuk: how's things?
Jan 30 20:09:26 <lcuk> bloody tired!
Jan 30 20:09:38 <lcuk> got back from bowling just before and its wiped me out
Jan 30 20:09:45 <lardman> :D
Jan 30 20:10:09 <lardman> all that mental calculation working out the exact scores to achieve?
Jan 30 20:10:26 <lcuk> yeah!
Jan 30 20:10:28 <lardman> or the beer (/me finds that more tiring)
Jan 30 20:10:28 <n900-space> \o
Jan 30 20:10:32 <lardman> :)
Jan 30 20:12:18 <eichi> hello. is there some easy notofication with terminal like a "beep" or a "led" light or vibration i can use for something like "command && beep|vibrate|led_flash" ???
Jan 30 20:12:33 <lardman> though one must keep a certain pintage to maintain good aim, hard to achieve that mind you
Jan 30 20:14:46 <lcuk> lardman, I was practicing my aim last night, playing carrom
Jan 30 20:15:50 <lardman> never played that, table-football like in terms of flicking things?
Jan 30 20:16:08 <lardman> in the 2p-style of table football that is
Jan 30 20:16:33 * lardman also remembers table rugby and taking conversions kicking 2p pieces, ouch!
Jan 30 20:16:58 <DocScrutinizer> eichi: xkbbeep does NOT work, I wonder what for they ship that useless cruft. playsound some.wav though will do
Jan 30 20:17:30 <lcuk> lol lardman
Jan 30 20:19:47 <DocScrutinizer> eichi: make that ``play-sound some.wav''
Jan 30 20:20:37 <DocScrutinizer> (and xkbbell :-P)
Jan 30 20:20:45 <DocScrutinizer> (still useless)
Jan 30 20:20:49 <piggz> damn, im missing top gear...just aswell my blu0-ray has iplayer!
Jan 30 20:28:15 <korhojoa> what? there's an episode of top gear going on right now?
Jan 30 20:28:33 <^24seven> yup :P
Jan 30 20:29:53 * DocScrutinizer wonders what kind of environment would be needed to put xkbbell to some purpose
Jan 30 20:30:31 <DocScrutinizer> ...on N900. bootmenu? framebuffer console? A better xterm?
Jan 30 20:32:06 <lardman> is to do with X isn't it?
Jan 30 20:32:07 <korhojoa> DocScrutinizer: a framebuffer console with a rotating opengl cube in the background
Jan 30 20:32:17 <korhojoa> just because you can
Jan 30 20:32:40 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: hook it up with maemo notifications and it'd be nice for screen monitoring and irssi
Jan 30 20:33:08 <chx> eichi: http://www.orient-lodge.com/node/3942
Jan 30 20:33:26 <alterego> gnu scree that is
Jan 30 20:33:28 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: eh? I can't see how that dysfunct cruft is going to be useful
Jan 30 20:34:01 <chx> eichi: http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/n900-im-style-notifications-from-python/ vibration
Jan 30 20:34:33 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: there have been many times I'd like screen to notify me that something has happened, through vibra, flashing led pattern and notification sound.
Jan 30 20:34:51 <DocScrutinizer> lardman: well it has a leading x. NFC if that means it's meant to put bell to work despite of x, or whether it needs x to work at all
Jan 30 20:35:27 <lardman> oh, I thought it was the server that was supposed to produce the noise
Jan 30 20:35:35 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: well, how's that related to a dysfunctional executable shipping with stock fremantle?
Jan 30 20:37:38 <DocScrutinizer> I just wonder if it's another few bytes to waste our precious rootfs space, or there'S actually some potential usecase for this
Jan 30 20:38:32 <alterego> Oh, I thought you were talking about using bell :)
Jan 30 20:38:46 <DocScrutinizer> my uneducated guess this very moment is: ~30% of rootfs are useless cruft and litter
Jan 30 20:38:47 <alterego> I'd imagine it's part of the core x package.
Jan 30 20:39:06 <DocScrutinizer> x11-xkb-utils
Jan 30 20:39:20 <alterego> 30% seems a bit steep, but I'm sure there is a fair amount.
Jan 30 20:42:47 <DocScrutinizer> 154.9M  /usr/lib (du -hx) :-P
Jan 30 20:43:47 <DocScrutinizer> it's really depressing how Nokia distro maintainers completely missed the point of /usr
Jan 30 20:45:04 <DocScrutinizer> you'd think they never had any education about how a *nix OS is built
Jan 30 20:48:03 <RST38h> Doc: education would not help them on their way to corporate goals!
Jan 30 20:48:13 * RST38h tries to parse what he has just written, fails.
Jan 30 20:58:33 <luke-jr> RST38h: I understood it, the third time reading.
Jan 30 21:01:57 <DocScrutinizer51> grammatically it looks lke a pretty normal sentence to me
Jan 30 21:03:23 <DocScrutinizer51> I'm no native speaker though
Jan 30 21:04:04 <chx> DocScrutinizer51: is this a hint at Area 51, the RX-51 device or a clever trick of both?
Jan 30 21:05:15 <DocScrutinizer51> it's the bit width of my wetware address bus
Jan 30 21:05:58 <chx> LOL!
Jan 30 21:10:34 <Toxaris_on_mobil> hello
Jan 30 21:10:42 <Toxaris_on_mobil> how can i restart modest?
Jan 30 21:10:53 <Proteous> we don't want any, go away
Jan 30 21:10:56 <Proteous> oh wait
Jan 30 21:11:02 <Proteous> you aren't selling anything?
Jan 30 21:11:13 <Toxaris_on_mobil> nop
Jan 30 21:11:16 <Proteous> :P
Jan 30 21:11:42 <Toxaris_on_mobil> modest sometimes crash and i recive no emails
Jan 30 21:11:58 <Toxaris_on_mobil> if i restart my n900 it works again
Jan 30 21:12:38 <Sc0rpius> wow
Jan 30 21:12:38 <Toxaris_on_mobil> so I wounder if i can simply restart modest to get ir work again
Jan 30 21:12:42 <Sc0rpius> first time I heard that
Jan 30 21:12:48 <Proteous> ...
Jan 30 21:13:00 <Sc0rpius> did you try kill -SIGHUP modest
Jan 30 21:13:05 <Sc0rpius> modest PID of course
Jan 30 21:13:11 <Toxaris_on_mobil> yes its quite strange, happens once a week or some thing like that
Jan 30 21:13:51 <Toxaris_on_mobil> yes I typed "kill -9 <modest PID>
Jan 30 21:13:51 <Sc0rpius> sojething like
Jan 30 21:13:53 <Sc0rpius> something like
Jan 30 21:14:03 <Sc0rpius> ps aux | grep modest | grep -v grep | awk ' { print $1 } ' | xargs kill -SIGHUP
Jan 30 21:14:09 <Sc0rpius> (yeah I'm lazy)
Jan 30 21:14:23 <Sc0rpius> but anyway, my modest has never ever crashed
Jan 30 21:14:49 <Toxaris_on_mobil> do you use exchange?
Jan 30 21:14:57 <Sc0rpius> no, not me
Jan 30 21:15:01 <Sc0rpius> just two IMAP accounts configured on it
Jan 30 21:15:10 <Toxaris_on_mobil> ahh, ok
Jan 30 21:15:29 <Proteous> I have my n900 connected to an exchange account
Jan 30 21:15:38 <Proteous> haven't had any email client crashes
Jan 30 21:15:39 <Toxaris_on_mobil> I think its something with mail for exchange that messup modest
Jan 30 21:15:53 <Proteous> but I don't get a ton of mail on that account
Jan 30 21:18:38 <Toxaris_on_mobil> well, I did the ps aux | grep modest | grep -v grep | awk ' { print $1 } ' | xargs kill -SIGHUP" and I get a yellow line saying something like Internal error email closed
Jan 30 21:18:45 <Toxaris_on_mobil> but it didt work
Jan 30 21:18:50 <Toxaris_on_mobil> strange
Jan 30 21:21:13 <Toxaris_on_mobil> hmm, in exchange status it says "Idle" and not connected as usual
Jan 30 21:21:40 <Toxaris_on_mobil> maybe its the syncengine that needs to be restarted
Jan 30 21:21:47 <GAN900> Toxaris_on_mobil, killall modest works fine.
Jan 30 21:21:56 <GAN900> Oh, yeah, Exchange.
Jan 30 21:22:03 <GAN900> Have fun with that. ;)
Jan 30 21:22:07 <Toxaris_on_mobil> :)
Jan 30 21:24:36 <Toxaris_on_mobil> maybe I have to leave it by reboot the phone :(
Jan 30 22:20:10 * alterego wonders where the qt dbg packages are
Jan 30 22:21:03 <Venemo> alterego: sdk repo?
Jan 30 22:21:11 <alterego> Hrm, yeah possibly.
Jan 30 22:21:46 <alterego> Ah yes, there it is.
Jan 30 22:23:57 <alterego> This should make things much easier.
Jan 30 22:28:51 <alterego> Hah, that ejection seat move in die hard 2 is brilliant
Jan 30 22:38:18 <alterego> Is it possible to install the dbg stuff to opt?
Jan 30 22:50:06 <Loveable_rouge> how does this work !
Jan 31 01:51:02 <Sc0rpius> hmmm
Jan 31 01:51:22 <Sc0rpius> the led pattern is not working in this modest, I'm not getting any led alert when I receive an email :(
Jan 31 01:52:32 <Sc0rpius> variant string "PatternCommunicationEmail"
Jan 31 01:52:36 <Sc0rpius> I don't think I have that
Jan 31 01:52:53 <Sc0rpius> hmm I do, but still doesn't work
Jan 31 02:01:46 <Sc0rpius> hmmm
Jan 31 02:02:41 <Sc0rpius> somehow "Email notifications light" was disabled in Settings
Jan 31 02:09:39 <jonwil> hmmm, my n900 isn't going to be fixed, its going to be replaced...
Jan 31 02:14:43 <jonwil> which probably means waiting ages for the new one to get here :(
Jan 31 02:47:02 <rodald> hi everyone, i just purchased joiku hotspot but when i get connected the max speed i was able to get was of only 225 kbps, is there anyway to make it faster?
Jan 31 02:47:17 <Failure-Peltonen> Truth: its slow
Jan 31 02:47:50 <Failure-Peltonen> Same speeds as at that free one.
Jan 31 02:48:52 <rodald> :_(
Jan 31 02:50:33 <rodald> is there a better option to get connected?
Jan 31 02:51:22 <Failure-Peltonen> Well never tried but if i have understood right, its able to share connection trough usb and bluetooth, which ones should have better speeds.
Jan 31 02:51:40 <Failure-Peltonen> Maybe possible through OVI suite.
Jan 31 02:52:30 <rodald> well thru usb with nokia pc suite it was worst only 156 kbps
Jan 31 02:52:48 <Failure-Peltonen> Really?
Jan 31 02:52:56 <Failure-Peltonen> Have you ever tried through ovi suite?
Jan 31 02:53:32 <Failure-Peltonen> if thats correct info, i can say this phone "tablet" really sux, i hate it anyways -.-
Jan 31 02:53:44 <rodald> not yet, do you think it would be faster?
Jan 31 02:53:50 <Failure-Peltonen> its slow and crap to use. Whats worst, you cant never trust it.
Jan 31 02:54:17 <Failure-Peltonen> Well it is possible, as i did read of tethering with ovi suite.
Jan 31 02:54:28 <rodald> well i love the n900 i just hate the internet connection thru it
Jan 31 02:54:55 <Failure-Peltonen> I were self testing it on my laptop, but my space on C drive did make end :< and its not possible (as i know) to install to other drive.
Jan 31 02:56:20 <Failure-Peltonen> My own n900 gets stuck and jammed all of the time. And if i have a buss to catch and i want to know schedule of that buss, or something else what i really need "NOW! and FAST" it wont do anything, browser freezes etc.
Jan 31 02:57:40 <nox-> are you using fennec or have a lot of other things open besides the browser when that happens?
Jan 31 02:58:35 <Failure-Peltonen> nox-: i have been using microb and tried opera. Opera is good but it loads allways if possible a mobile version! :<
Jan 31 02:58:55 <Failure-Peltonen> and what comes with fennec, didnt like of it either, coz its also slow
Jan 31 02:59:23 <nox-> yeah fennec as someone else here once put it, `eats ram like candy' :/
Jan 31 02:59:34 <Failure-Peltonen> yep
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 31 02:59:57 2011