**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 08 02:59:57 2011 Feb 08 04:31:52 omg did you hear Flash 9 is avalible for n900 Feb 08 04:32:02 omg Feb 08 04:32:09 omgggg Feb 08 04:32:11 lol Feb 08 04:33:14 anything exciting going on in the maemo world? Feb 08 04:34:21 my n900 only overclocks to 850mhz Feb 08 04:34:27 so sad Feb 08 04:35:43 Pauly, That story about the guy killing his N900 by overclocking was exciting :) Feb 08 04:36:53 is that the new thing on the bulletin thing on the irc Feb 08 04:37:06 yeah, the last thing in the /topic Feb 08 04:37:33 hey whats a good setting Feb 08 04:37:43 for overclocking? Feb 08 04:37:51 for overclock ideal then up to 850 Feb 08 04:38:03 a good setting is default Feb 08 04:38:09 it's the one that leaves your warranty intact Feb 08 04:38:32 i have none bought it usedddd for $360 Feb 08 04:38:57 ah, well default is still the one that Nokia tested to be stable Feb 08 04:39:04 i wish it could go to 1000 Feb 08 04:39:36 ok. I wish it had a built in shrink ray Feb 08 04:40:57 hey what spmething cool to do with the n900 thats easy to install cause im lazy today something like OMG Feb 08 04:42:05 im so lazy that when i use irc i use the freenode webchat in browser Feb 08 04:42:21 install xchat. you'll OMG Feb 08 04:43:01 nahh it dosent feel right on n900 Feb 08 04:43:39 delete the root file system, you'll OMG Feb 08 04:43:48 lol Feb 08 04:44:15 one time i deleted all the fonts exept the nokia one Feb 08 04:44:28 configure ipv6 so you can view a dancing turtle .gif, you'll OMG Feb 08 04:44:48 actually, I'm trying to get the 'xbox 360 remote app' working Feb 08 04:44:56 try that. maybe it'll work better for you Feb 08 04:44:59 i have tmobile isnt there a beta for that? Feb 08 04:45:14 yeah, tmobile has a beta for ipv6 over gprs Feb 08 04:45:32 any difference Feb 08 04:45:38 in speed Feb 08 04:45:40 more dancing turtle .gifs? Feb 08 04:45:48 no speed difference Feb 08 04:46:21 playing with the sdk on pc is soo cool everything loads so quick Feb 08 04:47:19 queen beacon looks like it would take forever to set up Feb 08 04:47:55 in fact, ipv6 is probably slower due to less investment in it Feb 08 04:48:00 why is there always alot of idle ppl on irc? Feb 08 04:48:12 because it's easy Feb 08 04:48:34 so that people can leave me messages and so I can catch up on what I missed later Feb 08 04:49:10 also: because we're better at being lazy than you :D Feb 08 04:49:21 i never understodd like theres 990980759 ppl but 3 ppl chat Feb 08 04:49:32 but now i get it Feb 08 04:50:08 Don't you just leave your IM client and email app open? Feb 08 04:51:09 kills battery and i got a wife so dont chat wit no1 Feb 08 04:52:02 brb istalled kernel power Feb 08 04:52:10 1) get a desktop or server 2) I don't think having a wife necessarily precludes chatting ... Feb 08 04:55:25 i back Feb 08 04:56:20 whats fun app! Feb 08 04:56:28 power kernel? Feb 08 04:56:31 or xchat Feb 08 04:57:10 huh? Feb 08 04:57:20 whats a nice fun app Feb 08 04:57:21 aah, I thought you said "what a fun app" Feb 08 04:57:26 <- monday Feb 08 04:57:31 uh huh Feb 08 04:59:29 i ahve no customuzation skills Feb 08 05:00:03 moo Feb 08 05:01:06 heyyy Doc! Feb 08 05:01:27 m00f DocScrutinizer Feb 08 05:01:42 thought it's Tuesday Feb 08 05:02:15 did u haar about the n910 Feb 08 05:02:26 hmm maybe westcost Feb 08 05:02:39 mope Feb 08 05:02:54 East coast US too. Feb 08 05:02:56 meh, coffee first Feb 08 05:03:28 omg its like an internet tablet with a phone Feb 08 05:03:46 NY 00:02 says my clock Feb 08 05:04:00 waaaah too early Feb 08 05:04:02 Yup Feb 08 05:04:06 Your clock is a minute slow. Feb 08 05:04:23 DocScrutinizer, still monday here Feb 08 05:04:30 pauly_, nah, the N950 is where it's at Feb 08 05:04:41 ive used the fcam so mich that i forgot how nice the default is Feb 08 05:04:50 it has built-in antigravity, and it's powered by a micro-singularity Feb 08 05:04:55 i suck at typing Feb 08 05:05:14 anyone like hondas! Feb 08 05:06:05 pauly_, yeah. good lawnmowers. I think I heard they were gonna make cars at some point ... ? Feb 08 05:06:21 lol Feb 08 05:07:20 hows twimgo is it released yet? Feb 08 05:12:10 n, my typing to slow Feb 08 05:12:15 no* Feb 08 05:12:24 not my clock a minute late Feb 08 05:12:48 no, my typing is too slow Feb 08 05:17:47 WTH are you doing up at this unfortunate hour? Feb 08 05:18:23 i tired Feb 08 05:36:35 mhm, Tom Mesch, Amazon, lab126 Feb 08 05:37:01 .oO(??!#@zzZZzz) Feb 08 05:40:52 MUHAHA ""Adds By Google: Arnazon Online Shop"" (sic!) Feb 08 07:52:33 hello hello Feb 08 07:57:13 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/myriad-announces-alien-dalvik-enables-android-apps-to-run-on-non-android-phones-115540194.html Feb 08 08:03:09 ok so... Feb 08 08:06:15 "Myriad Alien Dalvik will be commercially available later this year on the MeeGo platform." Feb 08 08:06:33 "Alien Dalvik will be demonstrated for the first time on the Nokia N900 at this year’s Mobile World Congress in Barcelona from February 14th-17th" Feb 08 08:06:42 very interesting :) Feb 08 08:31:56 Time to start working on libicd_policy_log.so (logs calls made to the libicd policy plugins) Feb 08 08:34:56 anyone here know anything about gconf? Feb 08 08:47:28 Morning, all Feb 08 08:48:53 hi jaffa Feb 08 08:49:52 * jonwil has become ultra-paranoid about his N900 after it has been replaced Feb 08 08:50:03 Don't want to have to take it back to Nokia Care Feb 08 08:51:20 Jaffa, morning Feb 08 08:51:31 still cant figure out these gconf config files Feb 08 08:51:42 Jaffa, android apps on n900 news today :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69492 Feb 08 08:51:44 * jonwil doesn't want to go editing things willy-nilly and stuff things up Feb 08 08:54:17 mece: Thanks :-) Feb 08 09:37:07 i found info about ath9k drivers here, https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=commitdiff;h=729073b9166bc974869bae0bfdab9840cac8f99d Feb 08 09:37:36 does that mean that kernel-power has them, or do i need to compile? Feb 08 09:37:56 is that a reference to a driver or what? Feb 08 09:40:23 trx2: are you looking for meego netbook? Feb 08 09:40:59 guten morgen jörg Feb 08 09:41:23 no Feb 08 09:41:38 trx2: what for are you looking into ath9k then? Feb 08 09:41:46 i need an ath9k driver for my usb wireless card Feb 08 09:41:53 so i can use it with the n900 Feb 08 09:42:01 via usb?! Feb 08 09:42:04 but i cant find one anywhere Feb 08 09:42:07 yes, via usb Feb 08 09:42:29 What's wrong with the built-in wireless, ooi? Feb 08 09:42:43 FauxFaux: that's what I thought first Feb 08 09:42:52 i need to be able to connect external antenna Feb 08 09:43:03 trx2: you have a bgn usb-dongle then? Feb 08 09:43:12 * SpeedEvil would love a little jack for antenna. Feb 08 09:43:25 The headphone socket is basically an antenna jack. Feb 08 09:43:30 GSM,GPS, bluetooth, wifi, FMtx, fmrx. Feb 08 09:43:36 6 jacks then. Feb 08 09:43:38 yes Feb 08 09:43:41 FauxFaux: only FMRX Feb 08 09:43:57 FauxFaux: there are good reasons it won't work with the others alas. Feb 08 09:44:07 SpeedEvil: mod the antenna... it is simple as that Feb 08 09:44:07 FauxFaux: Even neglecting the fact that it's not setup to. Feb 08 09:44:17 My headphones cause a significant increase in mobile reception. Feb 08 09:44:26 does anyone know where/how i might i find an ath9k driver for maemo? Feb 08 09:44:27 FauxFaux: that's not intentional. Feb 08 09:44:32 trx2: nowhere Feb 08 09:44:35 PLACEBO EFFECT. Feb 08 09:44:40 trx2: afaik firmware is x86 only Feb 08 09:44:42 trx2: build the module your own Feb 08 09:44:57 I compiled a module ages ago, using gcc on-device, and it seemed to work. Feb 08 09:45:33 hmm, so it is possible to compile? Feb 08 09:45:42 ill look into it then Feb 08 09:46:03 i found a src but couldnt compile in scratchbox Feb 08 09:46:16 ill try on the phone Feb 08 09:48:46 SpeedEvil: bt/wifi has an test connector Feb 08 09:49:51 jacekowski: that doesn't make any sense Feb 08 09:50:01 jacekowski: firmware runs on the card cpu (which I guess is mips or arm) Feb 08 09:50:22 not on some cards Feb 08 09:50:35 some cards use host cpu to do some calculations for them Feb 08 09:51:05 but as SpeedEvil it's not the case in this case Feb 08 09:51:11 softmac Feb 08 09:51:13 intel ipw cards used to do that Feb 08 09:51:23 aiui the N900 is fullmac Feb 08 09:52:13 jacekowski: yes but host cpu doesn't run firmware Feb 08 09:53:07 well, binary blog Feb 08 09:53:11 whatever you want to call it Feb 08 09:53:14 blob* Feb 08 09:53:45 yes, n900 has fullmac aka hardmac, means there's a fw binary uploaded to 'card' embedded cpu Feb 08 09:54:48 even with softmac there are firmwares though Feb 08 09:54:54 but those still run on the card Feb 08 09:55:10 depends Feb 08 09:55:11 there is lot of different implementations Feb 08 09:55:15 as i said Feb 08 09:55:25 intel cards run binary blob on host cpu Feb 08 09:55:28 used to Feb 08 09:55:33 do you have sources for that? Feb 08 09:55:45 because afair the driver, it doesn't do that Feb 08 09:55:48 anyway, maemo kernel has no closed source driver for wlan afaik Feb 08 09:56:12 wl1251 is softmac Feb 08 09:56:40 intel cards have firmware (ucode) sitting on computers nowadays Feb 08 09:58:05 trx2, you could probably compile your own kernel with compat-wireless ontop, that'll give you ath9k support or better if you use latter versions of compat-wireless Feb 08 09:59:55 A _large_ fraction of OEM cards come with a binary blob that needs to go on the local host Feb 08 10:00:13 The local host does all the WPA and login and stuff Feb 08 10:00:23 and the card is just a radio. Feb 08 10:00:32 OEM wifi modules, rather. Feb 08 10:00:42 do you have specific driver in mind? Feb 08 10:01:22 intel for example Feb 08 10:03:16 the cards these days yes but the portion of the binary blob remains fairly small, its either firmware or ucode mainly. Atheros doesn't use either these days, albeit they had HAL Feb 08 10:03:45 psycho_oreos cant i compile just the ath9k driver from compat wireless? (compiling the kernel is a bit too complicated atm as im fairly new to linux) Feb 08 10:05:01 trx2, no you can't you need to compile the driver plus the framework. You may as well compile the kernel because of the changes you make may differ. However, you can in theory use maemo's kernel source which is basically the linux source + patches for n900 + kconfig Feb 08 10:05:32 jacekowski: intel firmwarse are loaded in *card* memory/cpu Feb 08 10:05:59 for wireless? doubt it Feb 08 10:06:30 then read the code? Feb 08 10:06:32 http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.37/drivers/net/wireless/iwlwifi/iwl-agn.c#L2054 Feb 08 10:07:29 then i guess ill need a backup image of the phone and prepare my n900 to be bricked quite a few times :) Feb 08 10:07:57 that's the norm when you want to tinker with hostmode Feb 08 10:08:13 making it support for fancy things Feb 08 10:08:31 yeah Feb 08 10:09:34 Corsac: yes and no Feb 08 10:09:39 psycho_oreos but what is that code about in the link i provided? Feb 08 10:09:40 Corsac: intel has firmware running on card cpu Feb 08 10:09:48 Corsac: but they have binary blob running on host cpu as well Feb 08 10:09:52 http://lxr.linux.no/#linux+v2.6.37/drivers/net/wireless/iwlwifi/iwl-dev.h#L1294 <--- looks like it still requires ucode for firmware to be loaded onto the card Feb 08 10:09:55 i mentions ath9k sveral times Feb 08 10:09:58 it* Feb 08 10:10:58 jacekowski: do you have pointer on those binary blobs? Feb 08 10:11:19 http://ipw3945.sourceforge.net/ Feb 08 10:11:24 for example that Feb 08 10:11:45 now that driver is replaced by open source iwl Feb 08 10:11:53 well, yes Feb 08 10:11:55 and it's all done nicely in driver Feb 08 10:11:57 since quite a long time even Feb 08 10:12:15 and it's a *driver* not a *firmware* Feb 08 10:12:27 trx2, those maybe for 2.6.28 patches, you do also realise that ath9k doesn't work with atheros USB based devices? Feb 08 10:13:26 yeah, its something like atk9k_htc Feb 08 10:13:27 psycho_oreos: wl1251 is softmac? duh! Feb 08 10:13:27 Corsac: i said binary blob Feb 08 10:13:35 you said firmware :) Feb 08 10:13:42 DocScrutinizer51: vodafone offers europe roaming for £2/day Feb 08 10:13:43 [10:44:03] (jacekowski): trx2: afaik firmware is x86 only Feb 08 10:13:58 10:52 < jacekowski> well, binary blog Feb 08 10:13:58 10:52 < jacekowski> whatever you want to call it Feb 08 10:13:58 10:52 < jacekowski> blob* Feb 08 10:14:02 trx2, its either that or ar9170/carl9170 Feb 08 10:14:18 DocScrutinizer51, thanks for pointing out again the obvious :) Feb 08 10:14:33 ok, ill look into it Feb 08 10:14:39 ty Feb 08 10:14:42 psycho_oreos: eh??? Feb 08 10:14:52 trx2, and also ath9k_htc isn't available for 2.6.28 :) Feb 08 10:15:14 DocScrutinizer51, I was commenting on what someone said about it being fullmac but maybe I misread Feb 08 10:16:44 psycho_oreos: sorry, you completely lost me during offense Feb 08 10:17:57 psycho_oreos that means what exactly, that it cant be used at all or ? Feb 08 10:19:13 aiui the N900 is fullmac | yes, n900 has fullmac aka hardmac, means there's a fw binary uploaded to 'card' embedded cpu <--- that :) Feb 08 10:19:25 trx2, with stock kernel no, with compat-wireless yes Feb 08 10:20:55 then again the lines between what is meant to be a fullmac versus a softmac is really blurry, in the past fullmacs never required fw files to be sitting on the host and needs to be loaded everytime the machine wants to use it. Now it seems as though the firmwares needs to be loaded Feb 08 10:21:01 sounds too much like softmac to me :P Feb 08 10:21:20 well, so what if card would have firmware in it's internal flash chip Feb 08 10:21:33 you don't have to load it every time == fullmac? Feb 08 10:22:12 internal flash chip which can hold the firmware was fullmac. softmacs were the ones that had smaller memory and thus cannot have firmware stored directly on the device itself Feb 08 10:22:40 e.g. look at hermes I/II and prism2/2.5 Feb 08 10:22:51 so what if you would have softmac card Feb 08 10:23:02 power saving issues Feb 08 10:23:02 and do nothing to it except add flash to it Feb 08 10:23:39 softMACs aren't exactly good at power saving compared to fullMACs Feb 08 10:23:59 well they weren't Feb 08 10:24:01 that was the case Feb 08 10:24:05 well, you need more resources to do softmac anyways Feb 08 10:24:25 yeah its more host dependent with softmacs Feb 08 10:25:51 iirc ath6k is a fullMAC, suffered a big blow for its feeble support under linux Feb 08 10:26:23 those were fitted on devices like OM freerunner Feb 08 10:28:03 [2011-02-08 10:55:35] wl1251 is softmac Feb 08 10:28:46 so what now? are you right, am I, or is it simply that N900 has no wl1251? Feb 08 10:29:27 anyway I don't see how I'm stating the obvious, while you claim the exact opposite Feb 08 10:29:29 DocScrutinizer, N900 does have wl1251 Feb 08 10:31:04 I claim its softmac, you agreed I said that someone said (when I later on pointed at you) stated the opposite. I'm not going to go into lengthy heated discussion. Feb 08 10:33:47 I agreed on what? Feb 08 10:34:15 well, if you call that agreeing: [2011-02-08 11:12:49] psycho_oreos: wl1251 is softmac? duh! Feb 08 10:34:30 or even "stating the obvious" Feb 08 10:34:50 Jan 30 02:16:58 t900 kernel: [47866.828948] wl1251: 151 tx blocks at 0x3b788, 35 rx blocks at 0x3a780 Feb 08 10:34:52 Jan 30 02:16:58 t900 kernel: [47866.844543] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7) Feb 08 10:34:55 whatever Feb 08 10:39:03 It's neat! Feb 08 10:39:11 err Feb 08 10:39:12 no Feb 08 10:39:14 ignore that Feb 08 10:42:25 X-Fade: ping... Feb 08 10:42:46 achipa: pong Feb 08 10:46:40 I admit I'm just guessing, form ^^^ and /lib/firmware/wl1251-fw.bin - but in hte end I'd rather ask lxp1 about that. He should know if wl1251 is operated in softmac or fullmac mode, on maemo Feb 08 10:47:54 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 194180 Jan 20 2010 /lib/firmware/wl1251-fw.bin Feb 08 10:48:13 194k doesn't look like s stub for softmac, anyway Feb 08 10:50:10 there's two parts to the firmware, I don't know what the other one is for but if you do rename/remove those files after you unloaded the module and then reload the module without either of those. If you tried to ifconfig wlan0 up you will see "ifconfig: SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such file or directory" this is very much the same message as for the current softmac these days Feb 08 10:52:30 hmm, loading the wlan module includes powering up the chip and uploading this wl1251-fw.bin to the chip's ram, then starting it where it answers with "firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7)" - my wild guess Feb 08 10:54:00 so for whatever reason loading of the kernel module blows chunks, you will end up with a missing device file, so ifconfig returns with error Feb 08 10:55:36 I'd however bet the kernel module complains about missing firmware blob to upload, in syslog, when modprobed with missing wl1251-fw.bin Feb 08 10:58:05 nota bene: you still *could* operate a "card" in softmac mode, even if it has fullmac firmware uploaded, or even *real* fw in flash or eeprom. Nevertheless that's for sure not what you want to do, as you need to crank up the whole APE incl RAM and everything, every few 100 ms, for PSM Feb 08 10:58:55 this would eat your battery in no time Feb 08 10:59:32 so basically using a softmac card in a battery powered device is a major design bug Feb 08 10:59:57 X-Fade: heya, does maemo.org have a provider file/url for REST ? Feb 08 11:00:29 X-Fade: bergie is trying to talk me into using libattica, but the docs make it a bit more convoluted than it probably should be Feb 08 11:00:47 (more like lack thereof) Feb 08 11:03:03 achipa: Sure, there is http://maemo.org/packages/providers.xml Feb 08 11:03:43 X-Fade: right-o, thx Feb 08 11:04:19 X-Fade: can I get some stats from the REST requests ? Feb 08 11:04:29 i.e. how many people voted/commented via it ? Feb 08 11:04:59 achipa: Not atm. Feb 08 11:05:29 X-Fade: I don't mean anything fancy, graphical, just numbers basically Feb 08 11:05:33 achipa: there might be some unused field we could store something in. Feb 08 11:05:58 X-Fade: just so we know if people are actually using it Feb 08 11:06:21 achipa: I don't have anything to monitor that atm. Feb 08 11:06:48 if it's easier I could submit another request at the same time Feb 08 11:07:02 (hack, but hey) Feb 08 11:07:43 achipa: That is why I suggested a field. You can probably use something like title. Feb 08 11:07:49 Which we don't display. Feb 08 11:08:29 right Feb 08 11:08:45 but first things first, let me make this work, and then we'll talk stats Feb 08 11:09:16 (though I must say this qtwebkit thingy make scraping look good...) Feb 08 11:09:21 :P Feb 08 11:14:08 (fullmac) you might be interested in that one (whatever it tells us) http://www.cs.fsu.edu/~baker/devices/lxr/source/2.6.31.13/linux/drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx/boot.c Feb 08 11:15:51 morning Feb 08 11:16:01 X-Fade: ping Feb 08 11:17:32 http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel/nokia-n900-kernel/trees/master/drivers/net/wireless/wl1251 and http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel/nokia-n900-kernel/trees/master/drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx Feb 08 11:21:31 and he strikes again.... ;) Feb 08 11:26:29 * jonwil is still no closer to figuring out what he needs to know to write new icd policy plugins and test them on his N900 Feb 08 11:26:43 jonwil: Jesus? Feb 08 11:26:53 jesus what? Feb 08 11:26:57 Goat to sacrifice? Feb 08 11:27:30 I posted some questions to the mailing list in case someone can help with the gconf stuff I am stuck on Feb 08 11:29:19 /act Feb 08 11:29:25 Oh, ooops. Feb 08 11:29:36 * range takes back the Feb 08 11:29:52 what does /act do? /me has a look for some IRC help files Feb 08 11:33:21 lol Feb 08 11:33:39 tried to read something on the financial times, asked me to register, yada yada yada Feb 08 11:33:50 at random, I just typed foo as username and password Feb 08 11:33:51 TADA Feb 08 11:34:12 :) Feb 08 11:34:48 * jonwil wishes someone would write a better Solitare and better Minsweeper clone for the N900 :P Feb 08 11:36:31 * jonwil suspects the N900 is the only phone where the correct response is "if you want it, write it yourself :P" Feb 08 11:37:39 The solitare isnt open source otherwise I would hack it myself Feb 08 11:39:57 jonwil: what's your probs with gconf? Feb 08 11:40:29 (not that I know anything about it - I even *hate* it :-P ) Feb 08 11:43:42 my N810 arrived! \o/ Feb 08 11:43:53 although i'm already regretting it because now i think i should have got an Archos 5 ;( Feb 08 11:48:42 My problem is that I dont know how to use it at all Feb 08 11:49:15 so I dont know how to modify this ICD setting in a way that I can undo easily and that can be done without risk of causing problems Feb 08 12:25:51 hi Feb 08 12:27:52 muhahaha WUT? safer internet day - probably the day all hackers take a day off to have a booze X-P Feb 08 12:28:54 jonwil: use as in? gconf-tool2 --help ? Feb 08 12:29:22 jonwil: or code side of the story - then I got NFC Feb 08 12:32:42 gconftool-2 --help-all ;# actually Feb 08 12:37:47 jonwil: sorry if I'm off topic, but as I dunno what exactly you need to know: I found `gconftool-2 -R /|grep ` quite helpful at times Feb 08 12:38:36 or use less instead of grep Feb 08 12:40:14 for the code side I guess there's plenty of examples how to interface to gconf in maemo pkgs, last not least in source for gconftool-2 Feb 08 12:54:19 Hi. I have just buyed nokia used n900 an on my opinion it makes very bad Photos. they are not sharp. More closely to the object is the photo taken then more unsharp it is. Makro setting does not help. Could be there some software problem (I have maemo 20.2010.36-2) or is it hardware failure? Feb 08 12:54:50 How close are you trying to take pictures? Feb 08 12:55:06 You should not expect better than - maybe - 2.5MP equivalent. Feb 08 12:55:07 markinfo, Did you focus the camera? Feb 08 12:55:09 The N900 isn't designed to take really close up photos Feb 08 12:55:25 bullshit Feb 08 12:55:35 It will take decent photos as close as 4 cm. Feb 08 12:55:36 http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nokia/n900/ Feb 08 12:55:36 the N900 is awesome at closeups :P Feb 08 12:55:40 http://liqbase.net/20110206_005.jpg Feb 08 12:55:50 This shows all n900 pictures on flickr Feb 08 12:55:54 Compare yours Feb 08 12:56:00 that is a little tub made with a makerbot Feb 08 12:56:17 The biggest problem with all cellphone cameras I have seen is that they have a fixed focus Feb 08 12:56:19 you can see the pixels! Feb 08 12:56:23 Although the N900 may be different in that area Feb 08 12:56:36 The n900 usage graph on that page makes me a saaaaaaaaaaad panda. Feb 08 12:56:38 variable focus, you can hear it change Feb 08 12:56:47 jonwil, The N900 does not have fixed focus. Feb 08 12:56:58 (as does the lack of axis) Feb 08 12:57:14 axes Feb 08 12:57:50 jonwil: the n900 has adjustable focus, down to 5cm Feb 08 12:58:05 variable Focus? it is focused automatically? Feb 08 12:58:12 markinfo: yes Feb 08 12:58:14 markinfo: in the default camera application, yes Feb 08 12:58:20 well no cellphone camera can be as good as my fairly basic Canon with an optical zoom and a genuine close up macro mode :) Feb 08 12:58:23 There are add-ons to let you focus manually Feb 08 12:58:25 in fcamera and others you can manual-focus Feb 08 12:58:26 heh, it tries to focus closer too Feb 08 12:58:27 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=16230#post16230 Feb 08 12:59:05 but yeah, the problem with phone cams is usually that they advertise a large number of megapixels, while not actually having the optics to make that meaningful Feb 08 12:59:20 (i.e. it's all blurry even when substantially scaled-down) Feb 08 12:59:29 i guess fixed focus is one major reason for the blurring Feb 08 12:59:48 the problems with the n900 camera are excessive noise in low-light shots, and the rolling shutter Feb 08 13:00:49 * SpeedEvil is still annoyed about the GPS imprecisionbug. Feb 08 13:00:57 markinfo: try fcamera, using manual focus Feb 08 13:01:02 markinfo: it'll go down to 5cm Feb 08 13:01:06 Oh - and shutter lag Feb 08 13:01:27 well i try fcamera. Feb 08 13:01:37 in my experience, the default camera app tend to autofocus on hte wrong thing in macro mode - just use fcamera at 5cm manual focus and move the phone till it's sharp Feb 08 13:01:54 I want an ultra-lightweight process in RAM all the time that can take pictures 0.5 seconds after the shutter is opened. Feb 08 13:01:57 SpeedEvil: delay between pressing the button and taking the picture, right? Feb 08 13:02:11 I don't care about viewfinder, I don't care about focus - 1m is fine. Just take a damn picture Feb 08 13:02:20 The rest can fill in later. Feb 08 13:02:21 SpeedEvil: i've been wondering about that - specifically, how much of it is due to the application Feb 08 13:02:34 oh, you mean delay between opening the lens cover and shooting? Feb 08 13:02:34 * jonwil wishes the camera stuff on N900 was open source Feb 08 13:02:51 jonwil: again, fcamera :) Feb 08 13:02:54 heh :) Feb 08 13:03:08 i only use the default camera app because it starts faster Feb 08 13:03:11 although I dont use my N900 to take photos, why would I when I have my Canon :P Feb 08 13:03:13 BCMM: same issue, really Feb 08 13:03:30 jonwil: you have your canon 100% of the time? Feb 08 13:03:41 but it would be quite feasible to make a simple autofocus fcam application Feb 08 13:03:49 if I am going to be taking photos I will have it with me Feb 08 13:03:56 i mean, a less featureful point-and-shoot one Feb 08 13:04:03 * SpeedEvil never goes places to take photos. Feb 08 13:04:09 * SpeedEvil goes places and takes photos. Feb 08 13:04:35 ok, that's solved the gconf problem. Now I just need to figure out what compile and link options I should be using to properly build this .so file Feb 08 13:04:40 SpeedEvil: not the same issue - sometimes one wants to get something at a precise moment (ball in mid-air or something) Feb 08 13:04:54 BCMM: True. Feb 08 13:05:13 i've just started playing with fcam, so one of the things i'm going to investigate is whether one could get faster responses from a lightweight application Feb 08 13:05:13 BCMM: raise a bug - n900 camera should recognise my balls. Feb 08 13:05:30 Anyone know how to put comments in a makefile? Feb 08 13:05:32 Can you do it? Feb 08 13:05:34 SpeedEvil: "recognise" in what sense? diplomatically? Feb 08 13:05:40 jonwil: # Feb 08 13:05:43 ok Feb 08 13:05:58 i mean, i don't know how much lag is hardware/drivers, and how much is just the application (camera or fcamera) wasting time Feb 08 13:06:13 Essentially none is hardware Feb 08 13:07:56 SpeedEvil: any idea about how much of it is drivers vs. overhead in the application? Feb 08 13:08:14 well, you get like 1/30th of second of camera delay Feb 08 13:08:28 BCMM: 99.9% of it is app. Feb 08 13:08:44 but driver is pretty much just doing simple memory copy Feb 08 13:08:48 (I don't know how much is the libwhatsit lib) Feb 08 13:08:53 odd, since i can't see why the app should cause much delay Feb 08 13:08:59 v4l lib Feb 08 13:09:05 jacekowski: no Feb 08 13:09:13 The stack on top. Feb 08 13:09:13 i mean, autofocus and so on should be dealt with on the half-press Feb 08 13:09:29 autofocus is very compute intensive Feb 08 13:09:33 it's software only Feb 08 13:09:39 AIUI Feb 08 13:09:53 yes, but it can be done already before you try to shoot, with a half-press or whatever Feb 08 13:09:54 ah that thing Feb 08 13:09:58 yes Feb 08 13:10:04 when you press a button what happens is Feb 08 13:10:18 image is then compressed Feb 08 13:10:22 and that's what takes time Feb 08 13:10:47 because i doubt they use hardware acceleration of jpeg Feb 08 13:10:47 but that happens after the shot is taken... Feb 08 13:10:53 yes Feb 08 13:11:09 i'm interested in delay between pressing the button and capturing the shot Feb 08 13:11:28 that's probably time that it takes to transfer full resolution image from camera Feb 08 13:11:32 "if a fast-moving dog is in the middle of the frame when i press the button, where will it be in the photo?" Feb 08 13:12:23 And let me guess, if it doesn't compress the image, it uses up IO Feb 08 13:14:20 SpeedEvil: talking of fcam stuff, iirc you mentioned (last month) something about what it was safe to do with the flash - did you have a source for that, or was it just informed common-sense? Feb 08 13:15:42 (i'm writing a sorta programmable fcam application, and i'm guess i'm going to have to have some sort of safety so that a user can't ask it to shoot lots of full-brightness flash photos in quick succession) Feb 08 13:15:57 BCMM: based on knowledge of the undelying likely specs of the LEDs. Feb 08 13:16:01 underlying Feb 08 13:16:03 but i have very little idea of the parameters that shouldn't be allowed Feb 08 13:16:20 BCMM: Something like a full power flash 1/10th of the time should be OK. Feb 08 13:16:26 SpeedEvil: thanks Feb 08 13:16:27 You can do that with the existing camera. Feb 08 13:16:44 The low power 'torch mode' is fine all the time. Feb 08 13:16:45 SpeedEvil: reckon 1/5th of the time at half-power, and so on, would be OK? Feb 08 13:16:55 I've had it on for several hours when draining bat Feb 08 13:17:03 and measured with light meter, and it stayed constant. Feb 08 13:17:04 does the "n/N" keystroke operation work after a "/foobar or ?foobar" search on maemo inside vi ? Feb 08 13:17:31 SpeedEvil: also, any idea if high-frequency strobing, at minimum brightness, could be harmful? Feb 08 13:17:42 no, that's fine again. Feb 08 13:17:59 Any sort of minimum brightness operation is fine - the only limit is heat. Feb 08 13:18:08 Which is - mostly - proportional to current - brightness Feb 08 13:18:11 SpeedEvil, what about flash mode strobing? Feb 08 13:18:20 markinfo: you need to activate focus by 'half'-pressing the trigger button. N900 has no fix focus, so you *should* get good sharp pictures if you focus correctly, and you for sure will get focus=infinity when shooting without focusing first Feb 08 13:18:45 Again, keep it below 1/10th duty cycle, and 500ms max. Feb 08 13:18:57 thanks a lot - i guess i'll just limit the number of "units" of flash per second, where a unit is some measure of brightness*time Feb 08 13:20:00 BCMM: yes - it's probably sane to linearly derate - at 50% power - 2/10ths duty cycle, 25% 4/10, ... Feb 08 13:20:38 SpeedEvil: thanks, i'll do something like that + no single flash longer than 500ms Feb 08 13:21:39 ?? fcamera takes Photos in .dng format, they are 10MB big but my Preview programm an Gim are showing only 640x480px Feb 08 13:22:31 markinfo: that'll be the embedded thumbnail Feb 08 13:22:59 markinfo: iirc, DNG can include a thumbnail as metadata; a 640x480 preview means it isn't trying to decode the actual data Feb 08 13:23:21 and to display all image? Feb 08 13:23:36 full image Feb 08 13:23:44 (which might make some sense, as it's kinda intensive, and also "subjective", in that one can interpret the data with different white-balance and so on) Feb 08 13:24:20 YAY, this works Feb 08 13:24:33 Now all I need to do is figure out what these strange strings mean Feb 08 13:24:36 markinfo: gimp can open DNGs, i think - a dialog appears offering some options, like when you open an SVG Feb 08 13:24:47 network_id 48159cdc-2151-47a7-bb92-61789a2bcac6 Feb 08 13:25:00 Anyone know what that string coulde be? Feb 08 13:25:16 ummpf Feb 08 13:25:53 some kinda hash, or unique key name Feb 08 13:25:58 dunno Feb 08 13:26:06 hmmm, actually looks like a GUID to me Feb 08 13:26:19 :nod: Feb 08 13:26:39 markinfo: oh, what sort of OS do you use btw? Feb 08 13:26:58 mental note: Dont paste C source code into a ssh terminal :P Feb 08 13:27:13 lol Feb 08 13:27:43 jonwil: You might find this useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universally_unique_identifier Feb 08 13:27:44 "things that should work, but don't" Feb 08 13:27:58 jonwil: you can do that, using < markinfo: if you use linux and don't have a violent objection to KDE apps, digikam has a nice interface for processing DNGs Feb 08 13:28:25 jonwil: it's a *very* widely used unique identifier standard Feb 08 13:28:30 yeah I see Feb 08 13:29:28 markinfo: if you don't want to do any custom processing to get colours right and so on, i suggest you use the "autosave JPG" option and ignore the DNGs Feb 08 13:29:58 why there is no ionice on maemo? Feb 08 13:29:59 jonwil: so you and gconftool became friends? Feb 08 13:30:04 yep Feb 08 13:30:08 :-) Feb 08 13:30:41 Arkenoi: Spite? (size constraints and the fact that practically nobody would use it, probably) Feb 08 13:31:09 Arkenoi, missing on kernel level I think Feb 08 13:31:35 i want to know why maemo in general doesn't make better use of regular nice Feb 08 13:31:48 err?? Feb 08 13:31:48 oh wait Feb 08 13:31:49 if HAM ran nice, you'd be able to actually use the phone while installing updates Feb 08 13:31:56 Sorry, confused with ionotify Feb 08 13:32:17 HAM runs nice Feb 08 13:32:17 BCMM: Oh - mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video0:width=640:height=480:input=0:norm= -vo null -ao null seems to take ~0.4s before starting Feb 08 13:32:36 dpkg slows down the device Feb 08 13:32:58 SpeedEvil: not entirely sure what you mean by that... that'll be mostly application startup, right? Feb 08 13:33:17 oh, 0.4 isn't long at all... comparable with delay in the camera app in fact? Feb 08 13:35:06 BCMM: The camera app - for me takes around 0.8s to show first pic Feb 08 13:35:22 BCMM: maybe just needs somebody to build util-linux-ng Feb 08 13:37:11 ok, good, looks like those GUIDs match to gconf entries with the info about the wireless network (or cell network in the case of GSM) Feb 08 13:37:14 DocScrutinizer, Super - that was it - default Camera program simply does not focus - you must to hold button for a second. Now it is nice - as I expect. .... Is there a reason to not focus always when a picture is taken? Feb 08 13:37:40 SpeedEvil: we seem to have very different views of the camera app - for me, start time is OK but button->picture time is too long Feb 08 13:37:49 markinfo: that's how the better cameras work Feb 08 13:38:36 maybe it takes a bit time to focus always - you can take faster series of similar pictures. Feb 08 13:38:50 yes, for example Feb 08 13:38:57 BCMM: I care about them both - open to first picture taken Feb 08 13:39:00 Step 1 is to produce a tool that displays the name of all the WLAN_INFRA networks that exist under the gconf /system/osso/connectivity/IAP entry and lets you pick one (which it then stores in a setting somewhere) Feb 08 13:39:09 or focus on some detail, then change view Feb 08 13:39:14 i keep it as the default when the cover is opened because if i get the n900 out of my pocket and open "on the way", it's ready by the time i'm ready to compose the shot Feb 08 13:39:34 SpeedEvil: yeah, i do think that's a pretty important time Feb 08 13:40:17 it could be a bit better, but it's mostly acceptable Feb 08 13:41:11 ccooke: given io is the most annoying bottleneck on the device, the absence of the only tuning utility for it is ridiculous. Feb 08 13:41:29 e.g. i was outside and *heard* a family of low-flying swans approaching (to fly almost overhead), and the phone reacted fast enough for me to get a shot of them at their closest approach Feb 08 13:41:46 Gimp does not ask anything by the opening .dng pictures. And I have Linux. I am using Geeqie as image viewer - and it displays also only Thumbnails. Feb 08 13:43:14 markinfo: i guess your GIMP has different (probably compile-time) settings from mine Feb 08 13:43:43 markinfo: mine pops up UFRaw to handle the import for it - you could just use UFRaw in a standalone-way Feb 08 13:44:43 well - i have deinstalled uraw modul - as it causd problem a few days ago - it explain that. Feb 08 13:45:29 but again focusing - wenn there is video taking - how to focus during recording? Feb 08 13:45:29 ah, i've worked out where my priorities come from - app start time is a fairly small component compared to the delay cause by me, as i get the phone out of my pocket and open the cover Feb 08 13:46:05 whereas button->shutter delay happens when i am completely ready and waiting to photograph something and hit the button at the perfect moment but get an empty frame Feb 08 13:46:28 markinfo: oh, there's an application that does that, but it's a bit hackish Feb 08 13:47:02 because the camera app is closed (can't be modified), it's implemented as a seperate window with a slider Feb 08 13:49:31 BCMM - do you know the name of this app? Feb 08 13:50:15 markinfo: lfocus i think Feb 08 13:50:38 http://maemo.org/packages/view/lfocus/ Feb 08 13:51:19 http://thehandheldblog.com/2010/05/06/lfocus-hack-gives-you-manual-focus-during-video-capture-makes-n900-an-incredible-video-capture-tool/ explains it Feb 08 13:52:18 oh i'd forgotten that - there are KB shortcuts so you don't have to always have a slider obscuring your shot Feb 08 13:52:23 can use hw keys afaik Feb 08 13:52:35 also can start LED videolight Feb 08 13:59:29 * jonwil wishes he had a second wireless network so he could test things Feb 08 14:03:31 BCMM o/ Feb 08 14:03:42 ZogG: ? Feb 08 14:05:07 if I can not find any lfocus program I need to add Repository -or? How to do that most easy? Feb 08 14:06:19 markinfo: what's "-or"? Feb 08 14:07:11 markinfo: i appears to be in extras-testing and extras-devel, but not in extras yet Feb 08 14:07:43 markinfo: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing but really really read the caveats Feb 08 14:09:14 talking of repositories, how can i list installed applications from specific repos, e.g. find everything i have installed from extras-devel? Feb 08 14:19:04 * jonwil wonders if the guy who said he was going to ask the right people about the libbmeipc-dev package and the isi/phonet calls for GPS ever asked about them Feb 08 14:21:53 hmm Feb 08 14:22:07 I wonder if a 3G modem can be unlocked Feb 08 14:22:24 depends what brand of 3G modem Feb 08 14:24:31 MohammadAG: can you upgrade its firmware somehow? Feb 08 14:24:33 HUAWEI E1552 Feb 08 14:24:37 if you can, then it *is* possible Feb 08 14:24:41 it's just a matter of doing it Feb 08 14:24:45 kerio, it's a USB one, so I guess yeah Feb 08 14:28:19 frals: halp! IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/user/.fmms/temp/2011nnnn_xxx.jpg' Feb 08 14:28:55 X-Fade: ping Feb 08 14:29:06 korhojoa: sudo gainroot; chmod -R user:users /home/user/.fmms/ Feb 08 14:29:15 korhojoa: when are you getting this and what are you trying to do? :) Feb 08 14:29:31 frals: i already did that :< I'm trying to send a mms Feb 08 14:29:42 kerio, any ideas how I could get the IMEI? Feb 08 14:30:00 korhojoa: ls -l /home/user/.fmms/temp/2011nnnn_xxx.jpg Feb 08 14:30:05 label under it? Feb 08 14:30:12 kerio, none there Feb 08 14:30:16 frals: also, i did chown, not chmod :P Feb 08 14:30:18 The IMEI should be written on it. Feb 08 14:30:22 If you can send AT commands to it, there is one that could give you the IMEI Feb 08 14:30:23 official interface? Feb 08 14:30:24 frals: there's nothing there Feb 08 14:30:37 why some programs with same version are here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/ and also hier http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_extras_free_armel/ ? Feb 08 14:30:38 [ 1656.134712] usb 1-1.1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB1 Feb 08 14:30:43 kerio, windows, yuck Feb 08 14:30:48 indeed Feb 08 14:31:00 korhojoa: ls -l /home/user/.fmms/ Feb 08 14:31:08 frals: well, with the exception of the LAST_INCOMING Feb 08 14:31:35 jonwil, can I do that with ttyUSB0/1 Feb 08 14:31:42 frals: mms, mms.db, push, sent, temp. Feb 08 14:31:44 try AT+CIMI Feb 08 14:31:50 korhojoa: whats the owner/permissions? Feb 08 14:31:53 mms.db has got funny permissions though Feb 08 14:32:06 user:users, drwxr-xr-x Feb 08 14:32:18 but mms.db has got -rw-r--r-- Feb 08 14:32:20 jonwil, err, how? Feb 08 14:32:23 How is that funny? Feb 08 14:32:30 via AT commands Feb 08 14:32:32 MohammadAG: there used to be some software, dccrap that could unlock a modem under Windows Feb 08 14:32:46 i don't know about the legality of the software though Feb 08 14:32:48 korhojoa: hm, dunno why its failing then Feb 08 14:32:50 well, how come all the other ones can be read by the group? Feb 08 14:32:51 if you can send it AT commands though some mechanism you can send it AT+CIMI Feb 08 14:32:54 or AT+CGSM Feb 08 14:32:59 AT+CGSN Feb 08 14:33:04 one of those 2 will return the IMEI Feb 08 14:33:18 well, what software can I use to send commands? Feb 08 14:33:39 pnatd Feb 08 14:33:56 I think I used a terminal program to send AT commands before Feb 08 14:34:05 as in something like HyperTerminal on windows Feb 08 14:34:16 although I havent done it in ages Feb 08 14:34:19 and never done it on Linux Feb 08 14:34:19 I use gtkterm on ubuntu Feb 08 14:34:30 aah, USB Feb 08 14:34:56 miniterm Feb 08 14:35:42 or minicom Feb 08 14:35:50 korhojoa: as long as user has rw on temp it should work, dunno why its giving permission denied Feb 08 14:35:50 err, miniterm? Feb 08 14:36:07 korhojoa: your whole system isnt borked so its in ro mode by any chance? Feb 08 14:37:19 minicom? mompls... Feb 08 14:37:36 minicom Feb 08 14:37:39 maybe he meant minicom :-/ Feb 08 14:37:59 frals: no, don't think so, seeing as i can write there Feb 08 14:38:30 korhojoa: what happens if you try touching the file as user that fmms fails to create? Feb 08 14:39:03 frals: worked just fine Feb 08 14:39:27 it's trying to create the file? why is it failing? :< Feb 08 14:39:29 minicom wants to access tty8 Feb 08 14:39:36 korhojoa: can you send me the whole log? Feb 08 14:39:45 sure. Feb 08 14:40:19 ah, -D Feb 08 14:40:42 /dev/ttyACM2 you want Feb 08 14:40:58 alt-a iirc Feb 08 14:40:59 nah Feb 08 14:41:16 USB1 Feb 08 14:41:16 jonwil, both commands send a number Feb 08 14:41:17 a different one, I'm assuming it's IMSI? Feb 08 14:41:29 IMEI will start with 35 Feb 08 14:41:33 one is IMEI, one would be IMSI Feb 08 14:42:14 Oh, I thought you were using the N900 :P Feb 08 14:42:26 alterego: not on a 3G USB stick of huawei :-P Feb 08 14:42:44 and if I have an unlock code, is there a way to send it over minicom? Feb 08 14:42:47 lardman: pong Feb 08 14:42:55 frals: wtf?! Feb 08 14:42:59 atdt Feb 08 14:43:05 frals: i just tried again, and now it worked just fine Feb 08 14:43:12 DocScrutinizer: yeah, I'm obviously completely wrong :P Feb 08 14:43:15 or simply ADT Feb 08 14:43:30 ATDP! Feb 08 14:43:34 lol Feb 08 14:43:37 Shame that gsm doesn't support. =) Feb 08 14:43:45 korhojoa: weird Feb 08 14:43:46 NO CARRIER Feb 08 14:43:49 ATD of course Feb 08 14:43:50 is what it returned Feb 08 14:43:55 hmm Feb 08 14:43:55 does that mean it was unlocked? Feb 08 14:44:09 not necessarily Feb 08 14:44:28 there's a cmd to query the locks Feb 08 14:46:13 frals: well. i made you one anyway. http://ad.dy.fi/~joakim/fmms_worked.txt Feb 08 14:46:52 DocScrutinizer, any ideas what it is? Feb 08 14:47:01 mompls Feb 08 14:52:21 http://nobbi.com/atgsm.html basics, german. mompls... Feb 08 14:52:52 how to start this script: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/lfocus/0.914-1/ Feb 08 14:54:06 http://maemo.org/packages/view/lfocus/ Feb 08 14:54:14 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AT_Commands Feb 08 14:56:02 http://www.ctiforum.com/standard/standard/etsi/0707.pdf <--ultimate Feb 08 14:56:10 X-Fade: about package promotion Feb 08 14:56:37 X-Fade: Trying to promote mBarcode, but different plugins have different maintainers, is there a way of allowing myself to promote them? Feb 08 14:57:16 lardman: Yes, ask to be maintainer for those plugins too? Feb 08 14:57:18 doc, that is quite ancient ;) Feb 08 14:57:18 well that's actually a problem specifically for one plugin whose author has disappeared Feb 08 14:57:52 DocScrutinizer, I'm not sure what to look for :P Feb 08 14:57:58 Doc, although in much nicer format than what 3GPP provides. Feb 08 14:58:00 7.4 +CLCK Feb 08 14:58:18 the secondary concern is that both Dragly and myself are doing dev work, and we'd like either of us to be able to promote packages. Does adding other people to e.g. the Uploaders field allow this? Feb 08 14:58:47 DocScrutinizer, ERROR Feb 08 15:00:09 X-Fade: any ideas? Feb 08 15:00:35 lardman: 'Request to be maintainer of this package' :) Feb 08 15:00:58 lardman: There is a link for that on the package page. The other maintainer then gets a mail and needs to click a link. Feb 08 15:01:04 and the latter point, about multiple people being able to promote packages? Feb 08 15:01:22 lardman: then you have multiple maintainers :) Feb 08 15:01:34 How does one set that up? Feb 08 15:01:41 lardman: click on the freaking link! :) Feb 08 15:01:53 calm! :) Feb 08 15:01:55 ok Feb 08 15:02:40 I was only asking if it's possible before I start clicking random buttons ;) Feb 08 15:02:43 MohammadAG: +CLCK is wrong cmd, mompls Feb 08 15:02:46 but thanks for the info :) Feb 08 15:02:54 lardman: Yes, you can have as many as you want. Feb 08 15:03:00 cool, thanks Feb 08 15:03:55 X-Fade: sorry, one more.... What happens if the original author doens't reply? Feb 08 15:04:26 lardman: Then I can accept it. Feb 08 15:06:47 cool, will do some link clicking then :) Feb 08 15:07:42 MohammadAG: seems that's a device specific thing Feb 08 15:07:55 anyway you can try e.g at+cpin? Feb 08 15:08:39 at+cfun? Feb 08 15:11:16 trying to unlock it in a VM Feb 08 15:11:58 DocScrutinizer, CPIN = ERROR Feb 08 15:12:02 MohammadAG: for unlocking you might want to try AT+CUSD=1, Feb 08 15:13:42 that's no valid response Feb 08 15:13:52 at+cpin? Feb 08 15:14:09 +CME ERROR: Feb 08 15:14:40 = READY means no PIN expected, I.E unlocked Feb 08 15:14:47 PIN-unlocked Feb 08 15:15:19 = SIM PIN means "waiting for PIN" Feb 08 15:16:47 AT+CUSD=1,"*#123#",15 Feb 08 15:16:58 for sending *#123# Feb 08 15:32:32 i have installed http://maemo.org/packages/view/lfocus/ how to start this script? Feb 08 15:34:41 wow Feb 08 15:34:59 I just realized that I've been using the windows version of python running under wine as my main python interpreter for the last year. Feb 08 15:35:14 and _no_ problems. Feb 08 15:35:15 hehe Feb 08 15:35:41 :D Feb 08 15:35:56 javispedro: i'd assume it's faster Feb 08 15:35:59 until I've got this project where I was thinking "why the fsck it sends Y:\usr\bin" instead of /usr/bin Feb 08 15:36:09 heh Feb 08 15:37:22 somehow crossover added a python symlink in ~/bin which was in my PATH :P Feb 08 15:37:33 oh, it's full of stuff. Feb 08 15:37:40 like a symlink to winword Feb 08 15:37:44 (wtf?) Feb 08 15:38:23 well Feb 08 15:38:31 tried unlocking using some window app Feb 08 15:38:45 it says card successfully unlocked, but it's still locked :/ Feb 08 15:42:31 card? window app? Feb 08 15:43:05 Huawei E1552 Feb 08 15:43:34 it's a USB 3G modem, didn't know it was locked when I bought it Feb 08 15:43:52 oh Feb 08 15:46:41 what means locked? SIMlock? Feb 08 15:46:46 netlock? Feb 08 15:46:55 MohammadAG, I used DC-unlocker successfully on two 3G modems, and it worked well Feb 08 15:47:01 or a simple hw lock Feb 08 15:47:57 MohammadAG: there are actually quite a number of fundamentally different locks Feb 08 15:48:22 MohammadAG: so what are you talking about? Feb 08 15:50:11 SIMlock and NETlock usually need a device specific code of some 10..20 digits that is calculated from IMEI Feb 08 15:51:08 HW lock is like N900 12345 and it's usually unclear how to reset it Feb 08 15:51:29 HW lock just forbids swapping of SIM Feb 08 15:52:08 also HW lock usually is set by user, not by manufacturer/carrier Feb 08 15:52:31 or is your SIM locked, I.E do you need a PUK? Feb 08 15:59:07 Hello ! Feb 08 15:59:22 hey khertan Feb 08 16:00:01 DocScrutinizer, I can only use a SIM from the same operator Feb 08 16:00:13 hmm, SIMlock Feb 08 16:00:26 I gather you googled Feb 08 16:00:29 baraujo, that needs credits though, right? Feb 08 16:01:20 err, there've been tools in rapidshare or sth Feb 08 16:01:33 'lo lardman ! Feb 08 16:01:37 MohammadAG, yep, that's the downside Feb 08 16:01:39 tried dccrap Feb 08 16:01:52 It says unlocked, checking status again says locked Feb 08 16:02:08 MohammadAG: why not use an n900 :) Feb 08 16:02:24 khertan, 4 batteries aren't enough Feb 08 16:02:26 http://www.unlockforum.com/showthread.php/12554-FOR-SEND-CODE-to-Huawei-modem-USE-THIS-TOOL?s=5b039bd627a2a2fa09025df5311024dd Feb 08 16:02:31 and this is a data sim Feb 08 16:03:32 MohammadAG: aiui there's original SIM needed frequently to unlock :-/ Feb 08 16:03:52 MohammadAG: ah ... 4 batteries ... hum :) i ve the same problem actually :) Feb 08 16:03:59 too few battery power :( Feb 08 16:04:03 DocScrutinizer, well, I have a sim that works in it Feb 08 16:04:06 at least with my Siemens phone it's been like that Feb 08 16:04:19 not the original one, but works non the less Feb 08 16:04:35 MohammadAG: and that SIM was inserted and PIN entered when you unlocked? Feb 08 16:05:13 what PIN? Feb 08 16:05:23 I just clicked "unlock" Feb 08 16:05:58 umm, I don't know if your stick / SIM is configured to ask for PIN Feb 08 16:06:17 whatever, the SIM needs to be accessable Feb 08 16:06:36 I.E. booked in I guess Feb 08 16:07:50 I suspect the unlock command doesn't work when there's no/wrong SIM inserted Feb 08 16:08:13 it's just blocked, like all the other functions of modem Feb 08 16:08:29 trying code 34601031 on COM7 Feb 08 16:08:29 ........................................................ Feb 08 16:08:29 CODE ACCEPTED Feb 08 16:08:42 code? Feb 08 16:09:06 oh yay Feb 08 16:09:15 what kinda code is that? and who does that echo? Feb 08 16:10:02 actually, sorry I got not a single word of what you posted Feb 08 16:10:27 except maybe COM7 which might indicate you're talking about redmond crap Feb 08 16:10:53 ACCEPT TEH CODEZ Feb 08 16:11:02 MEH Feb 08 16:11:11 OVERRIDE LOCK Feb 08 16:11:21 SWORDFISH Feb 08 16:11:44 sorry, take it somewhere else... nah, I'll go somewhere else, this is really 100% noise here Feb 08 16:12:47 * alterego wonders what is going on Feb 08 16:13:01 welcome to the club Feb 08 16:13:27 moh pasting gibberish without context, and the others joining in Feb 08 16:14:07 and /me wasting my time and getting pissed about that Feb 08 16:14:09 DocScrutinizer: it wasn't gibberish, it's just not been explained yet... Feb 08 16:14:24 (Okay, it's not *definitely* gibberish) Feb 08 16:16:04 DocScrutinizer, unlock code worked, thanks for the link Feb 08 16:31:31 hi everyone Feb 08 16:31:46 is there a package for qtcreator on N900 Feb 08 16:32:43 I mean qtcreator binary running on n900 Feb 08 16:39:14 hi everyone :) Feb 08 16:44:52 hi guys, how do i post images in tmo with "click this bar to view the image"? Feb 08 16:47:35 hi, how can i execute commands as root in the power menu? Feb 08 16:47:51 i basically want to start vpnc with a config parameter Feb 08 16:49:31 evilbulgarian: have a look http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55734 Feb 08 16:50:35 no one here who posts images/screenshots at talk.maemo.org? Feb 08 16:51:23 evilbulgarian: sudo Feb 08 16:51:27 evilbulgarian: /etc/sudoers Feb 08 16:58:48 BluesLee, SpeedEvil ty Feb 08 16:59:12 BluesLee: so in there i dont see how to execute an command i see how to start a terminal Feb 08 16:59:58 PR1.1 for the N8's apparently out Feb 08 17:01:14 MohammadAG: is it any good? Feb 08 17:02:36 MohammadAG: you mean maemo pr1.1 ported to n8?;-) Feb 08 17:03:01 they only added a gray line to each item in a list Feb 08 17:03:07 BluesLee: in extended edit there's an icn in the toolbar Feb 08 17:03:12 icon Feb 08 17:03:13 at least that's what I noticed in less than 1 minute Feb 08 17:03:34 as cool as the N8 can be, I get bored with it, so I haven't checked what changed Feb 08 17:03:37 DocScrutinizer: i got it thanx "insert image" i tried it with attachments etc before Feb 08 17:03:48 Nokia Bubbles is an awesome concept, and if it's in qml, we could rip the files out Feb 08 17:04:10 also I noticed a trick on the N8 Feb 08 17:04:21 locking the screen changes colour depth and screen framerate Feb 08 17:04:33 it lowers both Feb 08 17:04:36 DocScrutinizer: unfortunately the icon doesnt look like an "insert image" icon :-) Feb 08 17:05:21 meh, touched a N8 in RL for the first time today. OMG they did it again: cam got a lump so you can't place the device flat on table. Will they ever learn? Feb 08 17:06:17 they did with the N97 Feb 08 17:06:20 then got amnesia Feb 08 17:06:28 the e7 back's flat Feb 08 17:06:53 the N97 had a bottom "lump" that makes it lie properly on a table Feb 08 17:07:05 dead links, yay http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/How_to_unpack_.sis_file Feb 08 17:07:47 evilbulgarian: i think you have to use the xml node "argument" for that Feb 08 17:08:45 evilbulgarian: have a look at the "top" entry Feb 08 17:09:30 evilbulgarian: just replace /usr/bin/top by whatever you want to run in the terminal Feb 08 17:09:56 BluesLee: yeah i want to just run it in background Feb 08 17:10:04 i see some stuff in the comments of that page u sent me Feb 08 17:12:11 MohammadAG: yeah the idea with the bubbles is good, do you think that you need more than 3 hours for an maemo implementation?:-) Feb 08 17:17:35 BluesLee, a lot more Feb 08 17:18:11 I need to figure out how the display goes to 0 brightness with nothing showing Feb 08 17:18:33 MohammadAG: just a joke ... Feb 08 17:19:36 BluesLee, tbh, I'm not joking Feb 08 17:19:43 I want to clone it Feb 08 17:20:43 MohammadAG: but there was a desktop bubbles demo implementation on maemo/meego of a company some time ago Feb 08 17:20:59 that's for MeeGo, and it's a whole UI Feb 08 17:21:02 not a lock screen Feb 08 17:21:10 Digia I think Feb 08 17:22:08 MohammadAG: yeah Feb 08 17:36:11 MohammadAG are you thinking to clone the bubbles from nokia labs? Feb 08 17:37:06 can the 770 act as a serial console over.. usb? Feb 08 17:37:16 ZogG, yes Feb 08 17:37:31 im trying to flash to enable r&d mode + serial console Feb 08 17:37:31 MohammadAG i think it's too big Feb 08 17:37:46 Well. Moo, all. Feb 08 17:37:52 but the device is not being picked up by the flasher Feb 08 17:38:02 "Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy" Feb 08 17:38:19 wiki suggests removing cdc_phonet module http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 08 17:38:21 bjv, there was some issue with modules i met on arch and some guys on ubuntu Feb 08 17:38:25 which i did have installed, Feb 08 17:38:29 ZogG, nothing's too big Feb 08 17:38:38 probably because i was messing with a nokia ca-42 Feb 08 17:38:42 which is a usb serial device Feb 08 17:38:45 but Feb 08 17:39:04 removing the module, when i replug the tablet and turn it back on, the module is inserted again Feb 08 17:39:32 Microb doesnt take input from a search input box which works fine in desktop firefox Feb 08 17:39:51 omg OMAP5 Feb 08 17:39:53 anybody want to test that by opening a webpage in microb? Feb 08 17:40:00 in qt creator i don't have maemo mod Feb 08 17:40:00 moo RST38h Feb 08 17:40:18 ZogG: is this a feature, though? i'd love to just hook a usb cable up and have a ttyUSB ready to go Feb 08 17:40:20 i can run it as regular app Feb 08 17:40:33 need some help Feb 08 17:40:34 how do I turn off the display? Feb 08 17:40:36 do i need maemo sdk as well? Feb 08 17:40:48 echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/omap2_mcspi.1/spi1.0/disable_ts Feb 08 17:40:50 maybe not "love" but it would be nice to be aware of the capability, so i can work around it Feb 08 17:40:54 disables input, but doesn't turn off the display Feb 08 17:41:33 MohammadAG: search for fb0 there, inside it, find "blank" Feb 08 17:41:55 mm, found arch thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33543 Feb 08 17:42:00 MohammadAG: a more interesting question is then going to be "how you unblank it". ensure you have a way to reset the device nearby ;) Feb 08 17:42:21 echo 1 and 0 Feb 08 17:42:22 nice Feb 08 17:42:25 thanks javispedro Feb 08 17:42:32 * MohammadAG starts cloning Nokia bubbles Feb 08 17:43:15 so if i write some app how do i run it in qt creator as it's on maemo? Feb 08 17:43:24 it starts as regular app Feb 08 17:46:29 right, so to clone this, I need to write a daemon that listens to screen and keyboard events Feb 08 17:46:52 why would you? Feb 08 17:47:05 cause the original lock screen is that daemon Feb 08 17:47:16 can't you just patch it? Feb 08 17:47:38 with something like a clone of Nokia bubbles? Feb 08 17:48:03 I do not believe that is how it works Feb 08 17:48:13 well Feb 08 17:48:19 the daemon is mce Feb 08 17:48:21 no Feb 08 17:48:31 but I do not think it throws UI Feb 08 17:48:44 i mean to make some kind of layer to apply any unlock in future Feb 08 17:48:52 like in android Feb 08 17:48:57 javispedro, move the systemui_tklock.so module Feb 08 17:48:57 they can change them Feb 08 17:49:12 it's in Nokia-N900:/usr/lib/systemui# Feb 08 17:49:16 then killall systemui Feb 08 17:49:21 so it's systemui the one that throws UI :) Feb 08 17:49:39 What are you trying to do? Feb 08 17:50:34 MohammadAG: systemui and mce probably talk over the system bus. Feb 08 17:50:56 MohammadAG: mce being the one monitoring activity, handling backlight, etc. and invoking tklock as necessary. Feb 08 17:52:26 (harmattan has a qt systemui but the usual mce, so they should be swappable) Feb 08 17:53:58 javispedro, I can't tklock without that file Feb 08 17:54:43 _obviously_ as that's the UI. Feb 08 17:54:52 I'm just saying that you should replace that. Feb 08 17:54:54 alterego, right now? Replace the stock lock screen with a simple QMainWindow Feb 08 17:55:08 in fact, you could probably move that into a separate binary, without the need to fuss with systemui. Feb 08 17:55:33 and you need not bother with activity, etc. just watch out for what mce says. Feb 08 17:55:47 for ex. http://www.google.com/search?q=tklock_open Feb 08 17:56:09 javispedro, yes, that's what I'm thinking Feb 08 17:56:16 http://pastebin.com/ak7w2Mpj Feb 08 17:56:53 no, you're doing much work, mce should be the one killing the screen. Feb 08 17:57:27 it's not Feb 08 17:57:33 try it yourself Feb 08 17:57:44 mv the binary and killall systemui Feb 08 17:57:55 lock key won't function Feb 08 17:58:20 MohammadAG: yes, but the dbus signals still are. Feb 08 17:58:31 So you wait for the dbus signal and show your fullscreen window. Feb 08 17:58:34 and it's not much work, just need to tie DBus signals with some simple functions Feb 08 17:59:21 alterego, again, that's what I want to do Feb 08 17:59:40 Either that, or you work out the plugin interface for that .so Feb 08 17:59:50 Or you could try requesting the API from Nokia ... Feb 08 17:59:54 but without that binary, touching the screen unlocks the device Feb 08 18:00:06 I'll stay away from those Feb 08 18:00:17 I don't have to interface with systemui Feb 08 18:00:29 MohammadAG: obviously lock key won't work, you've removed the UI. But mce is the one that would shut the screen off if UI was present. Feb 08 18:00:46 true Feb 08 18:03:09 so try not to fiddle with sysfs unnecessarily. Feb 08 18:03:51 http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-systemui/trees/master/src/systemui/screenlock Feb 08 18:04:15 creenLockWindow::ScreenLockWindow(...) : public MWindow () ;) Feb 08 18:06:47 * RST38h moos at javispedro, evilly Feb 08 18:07:14 javispedro, dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_tklock_mode_change string:"locked" Feb 08 18:07:27 that should work regardless of systemui Feb 08 18:07:27 yet it doesn't Feb 08 18:09:04 what happens on the system bus? Feb 08 18:09:16 does it try to contact systemui-tklock and gets an error? Feb 08 18:10:02 that probably happens Feb 08 18:10:03 no errors Feb 08 18:10:19 meego source says it calls com.nokia.system_ui.request.tklock_open Feb 08 18:10:23 method_call Feb 08 18:10:30 so it fails, then returns FALSE Feb 08 18:10:39 so it cancels the set_tklock_state call Feb 08 18:10:41 and nothing happens Feb 08 18:10:44 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/mce/blobs/master/tklock.c Feb 08 18:11:02 so, just implement a daemon answering that on system bus Feb 08 18:11:20 the interface is there (ssssubb) Feb 08 18:11:38 \o/ a humbe 15min and N810 GOT A gps fix Feb 08 18:12:10 and when that is replied succesfully, mce will proceed to disable kp/tp events. Feb 08 18:13:00 and so some more stuff.... Feb 08 18:13:21 friggin shite. you're hacking with mce? Feb 08 18:13:33 DocScrutinizer51: you got agps support at least? =) Feb 08 18:13:45 dunno? Feb 08 18:13:47 DocScrutinizer51: MohammadAG wants to do a replacement lock screen UI Feb 08 18:13:57 aaah Feb 08 18:14:03 DocScrutinizer51: you have the agps beta stuff? Feb 08 18:14:09 yep Feb 08 18:14:12 ah. Feb 08 18:14:22 but that usually confuses me Feb 08 18:14:30 MohammadAG, so how do i emulate on computer the app as it's on maemo with qt creator Feb 08 18:14:31 or my gps Feb 08 18:17:03 MohammadAG: to inspect method_calls and errors on system bus you might need to do this: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?Tools&id=1106&type=g Feb 08 18:17:04 I'm not sure AGPS beta does anything Feb 08 18:17:19 MohammadAG: (dbus-monitor part) Feb 08 18:18:07 =( Feb 08 18:20:22 javispedro: the N810 got 4 correct sats with somewhat correct signals, on second start of maps app. Nevertheless it took 15 min to get a fix from same 4 sats Feb 08 18:21:24 looks to me like it needs full download from sat, so no A for GPS from beta? Feb 08 18:21:46 well it kinda works for me Feb 08 18:21:53 without agps it's basically NO fix at all. Feb 08 18:22:36 I don't even have a clue whether the AGPS beta needs to be started or installed and config'd is enough Feb 08 18:23:28 well it's a slightly overengineered setup Feb 08 18:23:30 with two daemons Feb 08 18:25:00 so no idea how many, many ways it can go wrong :) Feb 08 18:30:05 it doesn't need to be running Feb 08 18:30:53 but agps beta only works with one server, and depending on where in the world you are, the dns will or will not give the one compatible server :P Feb 08 18:31:38 that can be quickly check with the UI (open it, see status dialog) Feb 08 18:31:58 yeah Feb 08 18:32:10 does anyone know when the pidgin extra protocols package is going to be fixed so that AIM works again? im still have to downgrade to an earlier version to use AIM. Feb 08 18:32:21 have any of you streamed video from the n900's main camera? Feb 08 18:33:10 if i could get 640x480 streamed mpeg4 from it, i'd have a use that would justify the expense Feb 08 18:33:33 lol Feb 08 18:34:04 encoding 640x480 to mpeg4/asp is going to be difficult :) Feb 08 18:35:51 what's the resolution of n900's recorded video? Feb 08 18:36:00 800x480 Feb 08 18:36:09 nice Feb 08 18:36:19 mpeg4 asf, ~25fps iirc. Feb 08 18:36:19 think gstreamer could do it? Feb 08 18:36:30 not by software alone on the a8 seemingly. Feb 08 18:36:39 ShadowJK: shouldn't a small line in /etc/hosts fix that? Feb 08 18:36:41 on the n900 it has dsp help, afaik. Feb 08 18:36:45 hey again Feb 08 18:36:48 yes i'd of course want to use hw / iva for it Feb 08 18:37:44 ShadowJK: you know what's the supl.url.foo and what's a IP of working box? Feb 08 18:50:23 damn, this wasn't such a deafening boombastic idea that the whole chan is hush ;-D Feb 08 18:51:07 it was on a tmo thread recently, lemme google it up Feb 08 18:51:40 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=884296&postcount=10 Feb 08 18:51:51 DocScrutinizer: the IP mentioned there works fine here Feb 08 18:52:40 also, I remember there's no need for /etc/hosts at all, there's a gconf key to entry the server IP directly Feb 08 18:53:00 at /system/osso/supl/ Feb 08 19:01:39 hi... I was planning to reinstall my nokia n900... using the flasher and stuff.. but the webpage at nokia is down.. is there any other way to get the flasher and firmware and emmc file? Feb 08 19:04:43 hello. i have troubles connecting to wlan.. iwlist shows me "wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning : Network is down" Feb 08 19:06:43 phoNeT is a nokia protocol, but for hsdpa/other modem devices Feb 08 19:07:01 so an n770 hooked up with home key pressed for flashing Feb 08 19:07:09 anyone know of any other page to the the flasher, and firmware and emmc? Feb 08 19:07:10 really should not be picked up as a phonet device Feb 08 19:07:13 qpdb: any reason you don't use the user interface? Feb 08 19:07:31 Kowalczyk: none. tomorrow it will be probably fixed. Feb 08 19:07:42 ok.... I hope so :) Feb 08 19:08:49 javispedro, gui doesnt work too. and since it doesnt show my any technical information, i try find out what the problem is by cmdline now :) Feb 08 19:11:23 qpdb: to fix that one error message you need to "ifconfig wlan0 up", but I suggest you reboot if it doesn't work then. Feb 08 19:15:11 javispedro: thanks pal Feb 08 19:15:21 the N8 colour depth thing is just weird Feb 08 19:15:22 why does it change colour depth on screen lock Feb 08 19:16:41 Mohammad: Two possibilities Feb 08 19:17:22 Mohammad: 1) 16bit or even 12bit color requires less power 2) their screensaver has been coded ages ago, in lores color mode Feb 08 19:17:25 a minor battery power saving while in a state the colour depth isnt terribly important? Feb 08 19:19:12 javispedro, rebooting doesnt help. after running ifconfig wlan0 up, iwlist works again, but connecting via user interface fails and causes wlan0 to be down again Feb 08 19:19:13 Mohammad: What makes me mad is that S60e5 does not let me switch to 16bpp mode using standard Symbian API Feb 08 19:19:35 Mohammad: And blitting pixels in the 32bpp mode is twice the work Feb 08 19:19:55 qpdb: that does not ring any bell so it might be hard to debug. Unless you have time for lots of detective work on your own, it might be time to reflash... Feb 08 19:21:34 RST38h, http://i54.tinypic.com/2e2lzrn.jpg Feb 08 19:21:42 * javispedro curses cryptic g++ diagnostic messages Feb 08 19:21:52 Mohammad: yooooo.... Feb 08 19:22:09 "declaration of .... is not in a cycle". Feb 08 19:22:15 MohammadAG: __tiny__pic.com Feb 08 19:22:28 Mohammad: This is 4bpp Feb 08 19:22:51 Mohammad: I never knew this mode existed. The worst I knowis 12bpp (inside 16bpp) Feb 08 19:23:02 does https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ work for anyone here? Feb 08 19:23:31 Venemo: seems that the stuff maemo.org has on akamai is all down again Feb 08 19:23:35 Venemo: of course no Feb 08 19:23:48 Venemo: no Feb 08 19:23:55 so I can't upload. great. Feb 08 19:23:55 so who is going to port rem for the 50$?? Feb 08 19:23:59 mo? Feb 08 19:24:03 no? Feb 08 19:24:10 javispedro, after trying to connect dmesg shows: wl1251 firmware booted (4.0.4.3.7); multiple timed out auth retries; wl1251 down Feb 08 19:24:28 vi_: Whoever gets the remaining $9950 Feb 08 19:24:32 qpdb: wrong password / auth info in connection settings. Feb 08 19:25:33 sorry TREMULOUS! Feb 08 19:25:44 and what is the 9950? Feb 08 19:26:33 javispedro, slonopotamus, RST38h: so is there any way to upload to -devel while the assistant is down? Feb 08 19:27:01 Venemo: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Feb 08 19:27:15 see dput/scp Feb 08 19:27:16 Venemo: dput/scp so some mysterious url Feb 08 19:27:28 s/ so / to / Feb 08 19:27:30 slonopotamus meant: Venemo: dput/scp to some mysterious url Feb 08 19:27:44 Venemo: yes Feb 08 19:27:51 ok, thanks Feb 08 19:29:08 T-R-E-M-U-L-O-U-S! Feb 08 19:29:36 umm Feb 08 19:29:36 can I sniff URLs with wireshark? Feb 08 19:29:43 yes Feb 08 19:30:23 javispedro, the passwd is double checked, i also tried using different auth methods wpa, wpa2. it also fails when supplying wrong passwords (instead of asking me for passwd again?) Feb 08 19:30:48 yes Feb 08 19:30:54 javispedro, it worked fine for a long time Feb 08 19:31:03 yes Feb 08 19:31:19 mmmm...reflash. it is the only way Feb 08 19:32:27 oh time to unsubscribe from a handful of tmo threads, got 410 notification emails today.. Feb 08 19:32:43 wow, you get around Feb 08 19:32:59 <|R> Wi part Feb 08 19:33:00 * RST38h usually gets mbarcode thread notifications Feb 08 19:33:17 usually very quiet but seems that today lemmings are running around scared because of something about android Feb 08 19:35:34 what about it> Feb 08 19:35:43 Someone has finally released an android simulator? Feb 08 19:36:28 someone who had a competing dalvik vm released videos of it plus a handful of android classes on n900. Feb 08 19:36:43 omgkawaiiiiii Feb 08 19:37:13 will probably license to oems only though Feb 08 19:37:35 it's going to be more a "port-your-app-to-meego-quicker" thingie. Feb 08 19:38:00 yet they showed stock apps on the video.. Feb 08 19:38:24 looks like the source code has been published? Feb 08 19:38:29 I'd doubt it Feb 08 19:38:33 their VM is propietary Feb 08 19:38:46 oh well Feb 08 19:39:03 either way Feb 08 19:39:09 I do not believe this is very hard Feb 08 19:39:24 I've been reading the Android SDK lately for an unrelated reason and there's mentions of hosted-x86 Feb 08 19:39:42 cool Feb 08 19:39:45 seemingly google already has such builds for internal testing Feb 08 19:40:21 (~ builds of dalvik and core framework that run under a "normal" linux userspace) Feb 08 19:40:34 that's what i want Feb 08 19:40:58 wonder how they deal with the security model though Feb 08 19:41:11 re Feb 08 19:41:13 they might very well ignore it. Feb 08 19:41:21 that's what I'd do at least =) Feb 08 19:41:27 true Feb 08 19:41:51 just reimplement the Skia routines over X11 and release the thing =) Feb 08 19:41:53 meh android is shareware at best Feb 08 19:42:58 With the mininal knowledge of Android I have I so far doubt they will reach a considerable compatibility level, which is probably why they're licensing to oems Feb 08 19:43:13 *I have so far I doubt Feb 08 19:43:35 javispedro: I updated my public key. then I tried to upload but got "Permission denied (publickey)." Feb 08 19:43:54 wait a few minutes Feb 08 19:43:58 you need to wait 30 minutes or so Feb 08 19:44:32 hmm, how do I run an N8 through wireshark? Feb 08 19:44:41 hah. Feb 08 19:45:22 since I never cared about Wi-Fi sniffing you might want to configure your linux box as a router (usually trivial and a mattar of enabling a sysctl setting) and then set the N8's default gateway to your linux box. Feb 08 19:45:59 * javispedro is talking too much today and should be doing work Feb 08 19:46:46 hi Feb 08 19:47:31 another altnative might be a sort of user-mode kernel http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ Feb 08 19:48:26 Mohammad: 1) Connect N8 to the network via wifi Feb 08 19:48:48 Mohammad: 2) Connect your Linux PC into a wired portof the same wifi router Feb 08 19:49:07 Mohammad: 3) Run Wireshark on the Linux PC, with root privileges Feb 08 19:49:49 RST38h, and the linux box will sniff the router? o_O Feb 08 19:49:51 Mohammad: 4) Use Wireshark to put your ethernet card into promiscous mode Feb 08 19:49:51 i was trying to use my N900 as an endoscope, with the TV-out cable and live focus keeping the LED on and the folcus on macro mode, to get a better view of inside my computer (which is turned off but still plugged), but then i got zapped, seems holding the N900 with the TV-out cable plugged is somehow closing some circuit, doesn't happen if i pull out the TV-out cable nor if i try touching the computer case and the metal bits of the c Feb 08 19:49:51 harger cable Feb 08 19:50:15 Mohammad: When in promiscous mode, the ethernet card will receive ALL the packets that show up in your local network Feb 08 19:50:38 Mohammad: Among them should be the packets coming from N8 Feb 08 19:50:58 aparently the N900 remained oblivious to the shock except for the interference on the TV-out signal Feb 08 19:51:01 might not work if AP is a switch Feb 08 19:51:02 Mohammad: Filter them by protocol ( you want namelookups and http) Feb 08 19:51:14 javispedro: Yes,may notwork with too smart aps Feb 08 19:51:19 any idea what exactly is going on? Feb 08 19:51:30 javispedro: Should work with most cheap residential stuff Feb 08 19:51:33 hi people, i have some problem, when i connect openvpn have this message, fail cannot blind sockets . ¿ Some people know resolve? And some people speak spanish? Sorry for my bad english Feb 08 19:51:43 RST38h, isn't there a way to make my PC act as a proxy? Feb 08 19:51:45 javispedro: waited a few minutes, still the same error :( Feb 08 19:51:49 (similar to what javispedro suggested) Feb 08 19:51:52 RST38h: I used to think that, but mine's ($50) does that too... Feb 08 19:51:55 Mohammad: There is but it is harder Feb 08 19:52:12 MohammadAG: try what RST38h said first, you might be lucky. Feb 08 19:52:19 MohammadAG: if you are it makes this much easier. Feb 08 19:52:44 Mohammad: The second method is toput your laptop WiFi card into monitor mode or promiscous mode Feb 08 19:53:17 Mohammad: Actually, you will have to put it into monitor mode, because WiFi cards will usually cut off foreign traffic at the firmware level Feb 08 19:53:53 the gateway stuff might work better here :) Feb 08 19:54:04 I've never tried but should conceptually work =) Feb 08 19:54:28 wow, even if i pull the plug i still get zapped O.O Feb 08 19:56:55 ah, ok, i do get zapped with just the cable itself, not somthing the N900 is doing; i'm still a bit surprised that the shock still happens with the power plug removed, probably the fault of one of the monitors, but still a bit surprized Feb 08 19:59:49 javispedro: gateway method is harder ot set up Feb 08 20:00:02 javispedro: the wifi monitor thing is known to work well though Feb 08 20:00:16 dunno, I have no monitor mode here. Feb 08 20:00:24 javispedro: what card? Feb 08 20:00:27 none =) Feb 08 20:00:31 no wifi? Feb 08 20:00:36 not on desktop Feb 08 20:01:03 You have got that bloody Lenovo Feb 08 20:01:19 either way, I was thinking enabling /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward and call it a day :) Feb 08 20:08:43 some people know openvpn ? Feb 08 20:08:43 have problem :( Feb 08 20:09:40 not me Feb 08 20:09:41 sorry Feb 08 20:09:44 hi all Feb 08 20:09:59 can anyone tell me how do I get a NOLO image :o? Feb 08 20:10:56 Kowalczyk: n900-space: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ is back up. Feb 08 20:11:30 ok. ty :d Feb 08 20:13:19 thanks javispedro, but I dont know where to look for nolo in there :$ Feb 08 20:13:52 you probably don't want it and instead want a FIASCO image. Feb 08 20:14:02 aka find your device there. Feb 08 20:14:04 i'm trying to do a cold flash Feb 08 20:14:29 cuz nothing is working on my n900 right now. And it requires a secondary image as the flaher says. Hence I'm looking for it Feb 08 20:14:29 what did you do that requires a cold flash? Feb 08 20:14:46 javispedro: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69442 Feb 08 20:14:55 flasher* Feb 08 20:15:10 i'm kind of stuck in this and trying everything. Feb 08 20:15:42 for completeness, the answer to the last post is "yes". Feb 08 20:15:54 and, if that does not work, I'd say "try another computer". Feb 08 20:16:47 about the last post, i'm atleast happy to hear that 'u' is not required on linux, right now i dont have linux on my laptop and i'm going to install it as soon as i get a partition ready for linux to install it on Feb 08 20:17:07 It shouldn't be required on Windows either. That's why I suggest another computer... Feb 08 20:17:21 but another OS might be fine too. Feb 08 20:18:12 all the guides I have read says the "U" key should be pressed before you plug in the sub cable, the flaher doc says the same. Feb 08 20:18:26 because if you do so then it gets stuck in flashing mode Feb 08 20:18:37 but needs a host to do so. Feb 08 20:18:39 I guessed that windows machine requires the "U" pressed for flashing mode to activate but linux doesnt .. from that post that is Feb 08 20:20:15 if i want to continue with the current experiment, I'm stuck here Feb 08 20:20:17 C:\Program Files\maemo\flasher-3.5>flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.003_PR_COMBINED_003_ARM.bin -f -R -c -h rx-51:2101 Feb 08 20:20:23 trying to make the above command work Feb 08 20:21:05 but now the --secondary parameter is what I need to supply, so I need NOLO boot loader image Feb 08 20:21:30 do you know how can i get that? Feb 08 20:21:35 Hey guys, quick question. Is there no working start/end of page keyboard shortcut in the browser on pr1.3? Feb 08 20:21:44 n900-space: simply, don't. Feb 08 20:22:03 but why Feb 08 20:22:05 n900-space: a connection problem is not going to be solved by reflashing the bootloader. Feb 08 20:22:22 you think its my laptop ? Feb 08 20:22:28 Per_n900: try Shift + Up/Down arrows Feb 08 20:22:32 n900-space: or your OS. Feb 08 20:22:39 aha Feb 08 20:23:21 moin Feb 08 20:23:24 SpeedEvil: what app to use to add map details to OSM? Feb 08 20:23:52 javispedro: excellent, thanks!! Feb 08 20:24:03 OSM-mapping Feb 08 20:24:58 I have used the office desktop pc, also running windows 7 32 bits, and that doesnt work too .. flashing n900 on windows 7 32 bits used to always work, but its not working anymore on my cell phone Feb 08 20:31:18 so jabber.org doesn't work on os2008, is that correct? Feb 08 20:31:24 no Feb 08 20:31:37 hi Feb 08 20:31:52 is the myriad dalvik vm available for download? Feb 08 20:32:10 not for maemo Feb 08 20:32:22 oh, so it is just for meego? Feb 08 20:32:49 so far it's just words Feb 08 20:32:55 no real software published Feb 08 20:32:56 and a video Feb 08 20:33:19 well, ubuntu people had video 3 years ago Feb 08 20:33:41 but published dalvik port to glibc would be awesome Feb 08 20:34:30 it's quite an undertaking. Feb 08 20:34:49 not so much if you think about it Feb 08 20:35:16 somebody already done it Feb 08 20:35:20 just not published Feb 08 20:35:28 hrm? Feb 08 20:35:41 i mean, ubuntu ppl demo'd something two years ago and ... nothing. Feb 08 20:35:54 so how do you think did it? Feb 08 20:36:12 well, there is only one thing you have to do to make it run Feb 08 20:36:26 well, i'm not even sure about that Feb 08 20:36:47 because i think there is version of dalvik that works on X Feb 08 20:36:53 o_O Feb 08 20:36:56 fail openvpn.... some people can resolve ? Feb 08 20:37:04 the one they use for testing applications Feb 08 20:37:29 why do they distribute an image in qemu? Feb 08 20:38:10 (then) well I can imagine some reasons, but it could be useful nevertheless Feb 08 20:38:30 well, you can emulate whole platform then Feb 08 20:39:12 alguien habla mi idioma ? Feb 08 20:39:25 english Feb 08 20:39:34 dado777: is that turkish? Feb 08 20:40:03 nah Feb 08 20:40:07 im from Spain Feb 08 20:40:08 it looks like spanish Feb 08 20:40:27 I was kidding :) I'm from Spain too Feb 08 20:41:02 but is hard english idiom Feb 08 20:41:03 in my country people dont speak english and other idioms Feb 08 20:41:12 guille Feb 08 20:41:12 eres español ? Feb 08 20:41:27 i'll start speaking russian or polish here Feb 08 20:41:43 Indeed, not sure though if it matters to the channel, if you've some question ask me in private Feb 08 20:42:00 hey, quick maemo packaging question: Feb 08 20:42:07 If a project like rockbox would already contain a "debian" directory in the root dir, is there a way to specify another debian build rules directory like "debian.maemo" for dpkg-buildpackage? Feb 08 20:42:21 no Feb 08 20:42:33 you have to detect platform in build scripts Feb 08 20:43:00 jacekowski, if you do that I'll start swearing in russian :P Feb 08 20:43:37 How would you handle the control file that way? Feb 08 20:43:52 hmm. So it would also need a combined "changelog" Feb 08 20:44:29 gevaerts: i've seen you on fosdem Feb 08 20:44:59 * gevaerts hides! Feb 08 20:45:14 well, but it will be hard to make universal portable debian package Feb 08 20:48:46 jacekowski: Would it make sense to have a "maemo" subdir in the root directory and put the maemo specific "debian" directory there? Feb 08 20:48:57 not really Feb 08 20:49:03 packages would still differ Feb 08 20:49:38 hm, I assume maemo doesn't use the new fancy debian package formats? Feb 08 20:50:42 gevaerts: i am behind, care to give me something to rtfm on that? Feb 08 20:51:04 * gevaerts tries to find information. He really only knows they exist... Feb 08 20:52:04 chx: http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/DebSrc3.0 Feb 08 20:52:32 You can apparently ship a separate tar file with the debian directory in it Feb 08 20:53:33 ah so THAT's why i got so much grief when installin' my new ssd Feb 08 20:53:41 not supported on maemo autobuilder Feb 08 20:53:48 it was always croaking something about lzma. Feb 08 20:54:08 gevaerts: thanks Feb 08 20:55:02 jacekowski: that's what I figured Feb 08 20:55:05 eh. I generated a new SSH key and uploaded the public key about 20 minutes ago, but I still get the error Feb 08 20:55:51 Venemo: is it rsa key or dss? Feb 08 20:56:36 jacekowski: rsa key, generated with ssh-keygen -t rsa as it says Feb 08 20:56:45 then wait Feb 08 20:56:58 i think it's 30 minutes or 60 for keys to update Feb 08 20:57:04 ookay. Feb 08 20:57:09 or maybe 15 Feb 08 20:57:17 how did you put that into a box? Feb 08 20:58:30 scp *.tar.gz *.diff.gz *.changes *.dsc venemo@drop.maemo.org:/var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/ Feb 08 20:58:47 not that Feb 08 20:58:59 content of that box with a key Feb 08 20:59:05 what does it exactly say Feb 08 20:59:08 thomasjfox: maybe there could be a way to generate a debian diff based on files stored somewhere other than debian/? (prior to upload to the maemo builders of course) Feb 08 21:00:46 gevaerts: Unfortunately, I have no idea Feb 08 21:02:43 gevaerts: I'll try to ask "paultag" for an opinion, he did the first quick review of the packaging stuff Feb 08 21:07:52 hey _nicolai_ Feb 08 21:08:27 <_nicolai_> Hi Feb 08 21:08:56 8 days uptime. reboot. Feb 08 21:09:42 <_nicolai_> someone knows how to properly layout a gtkdialog in portrait mode? Feb 08 21:15:53 hmm Feb 08 21:16:32 okay, I installed the necessary MADDE target for Diablo Feb 08 21:16:36 now I get this: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libqt4-dev libqtm-dev | maemo-version (>= 5.0) libqtm-sensors | maemo-version (>= 5.0) libhildon-extras1-dev | maemo-version (>= 5.0) Feb 08 21:17:12 I thought it should only take libqtm-dev into account for maemo versions greater than or equal to 5.0...? Feb 08 21:17:24 I also thought there was at least some old version of qt for Diablo? Feb 08 21:26:51 DocScrutinizer: I use josm. (not on n900) Feb 08 21:27:15 DocScrutinizer: alternate tool is the builtin flash editor - which sort-of-but-not-really works on n900 Feb 08 21:28:20 hm. A friend poinzed me at mapero (which is rather nice it seems Feb 08 21:28:58 ) but mentioned the lack of a proper tool on maemo to contribute to OSM Feb 08 21:32:36 two weeks ago he gave me his GTA02 to check/fix GPS, and today he told me last time we met he got convinced by my stories to buy a N900 :-D Feb 08 21:34:06 how can i install diff? Feb 08 21:34:22 * DocScrutinizer feels like a trendsetter Feb 08 21:34:32 (and am i right in saying that even the busybox version is missing?) Feb 08 21:34:59 diffutils-gnu Feb 08 21:35:10 yes Feb 08 21:35:14 DocScrutinizer: thanks! Feb 08 21:35:36 annoyingly, apt-get install diff says "silly, you already have busybox!" Feb 08 21:35:59 oh nice Feb 08 21:36:08 QRadio has a bug that makes people on the other end hear the radio Feb 08 21:36:34 maybe someone could check where libqtm-multimedia f'd up and exploit it Feb 08 21:36:36 you mean of a call? Feb 08 21:36:42 yeh Feb 08 21:36:44 yeah* Feb 08 21:36:45 that sounds a lot like a feature to me! Feb 08 21:37:13 WUT?? Feb 08 21:37:48 meh Feb 08 21:37:57 * DocScrutinizer is the real silly Feb 08 21:38:09 exploit it, and you have an on-device voice mail Feb 08 21:38:17 DocScrutinizer, btw, thanks again, modem unlocked Feb 08 21:38:38 also, I realized Israel defines 3.5G as 1.0MBps instead of 7.2, so I was disappointed there :/ Feb 08 21:38:48 DocScrutinizer: osm2go does work - somewhat. Feb 08 21:39:00 :-) Feb 08 21:39:02 DocScrutinizer: The primary pro blem is really the lack of a decent keyboard and mouse,. Feb 08 21:40:12 err, he draw a plot like pushbutton dictaphone combined with GPS Feb 08 21:40:27 no mouse involved in that scenario Feb 08 21:43:18 DocScrutinizer: Oh - right - that's not been done yet, I think. Feb 08 21:43:37 Though in principle, can't the camera do voice notes withjpeg? Feb 08 21:44:04 * DocScrutinizer wonders if videos also have geotags, and if those are as crippled to +-100m like the pictures are (were?) Feb 08 21:44:20 SpeedEvil: hehe, same idea Feb 08 21:45:53 MohammadAG: fine Feb 08 21:49:15 BCMM: you really want bash with a proper set of *-utils, plus correctly set up $PATH Feb 08 21:49:44 BCMM: beware though to make bash defualt shell for user Feb 08 21:49:50 DocScrutinizer: i've got coreutils; surpised to find diff wasn't part of it though Feb 08 21:49:53 DocScrutinizer: why? Feb 08 21:50:01 bootloop Feb 08 21:50:06 possibly Feb 08 21:50:22 i have user:*:29999:29999::/home/user:/bin/bash and nothing bad has happened Feb 08 21:50:30 the bash-setup script did it for me Feb 08 21:50:51 initscripts rely on busyboxisms (or did) Feb 08 21:51:02 BCMM: does it *work*? Feb 08 21:51:04 DocScrutinizer: why do they run as user? Feb 08 21:51:17 user is tun as user Feb 08 21:51:24 DocScrutinizer: well, xterm and ssh both come up with bash Feb 08 21:51:26 so maybe it's xsession or whatever Feb 08 21:51:30 DocScrutinizer: and i've been running like this for months... Feb 08 21:52:01 mhm, nice. Maybe that's fixed then, since 1.0 :-D Feb 08 21:52:04 is there much stuff being executed with the user's primary shell about? i suppose it could be a performance issue if bash instances are getting started like taht Feb 08 21:53:23 nah, it has been a clear syntax/semantic diff issue Feb 08 21:53:40 between proper coreutils and busybox crap Feb 08 21:54:17 so it's prolly not bash itself, as long as bash is calling busybox for ls and chmod and whatnot Feb 08 21:54:59 sorry it's like 12 months ago, can't remember clearly anymore Feb 08 22:19:46 could someone please help me? here is my failed build log: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/puzzle-master_1.1.0/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt and my control file: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/debian/control Feb 08 22:19:59 seems that it didn't find any packages marked with | maemo-version (>=5.0) Feb 08 22:25:28 it's not that it didn't find them... it's that because of your | maemo-version (>= 5.0), it didn't look for them because the dependency was already satisfied Feb 08 22:26:01 villager: so it should be maemo-version (< 5.0) Feb 08 22:26:34 would it build on previous maemo versions without those deps? doubtful, so why have that at all? Feb 08 22:26:38 villager: (I want it to work for Diablo too, and I only want those dependencies under fremantle) Feb 08 22:26:49 villager: relevant code is #ifdef'd Feb 08 22:27:04 okay, then < 5.0 would probably work Feb 08 22:29:26 thank you villager Feb 08 22:30:41 villager: do similar names exist for Debian or Ubuntu? eg. debian-version or ubuntu-version? Feb 08 22:33:16 Is there a terminalwidget for the desktop? Like a fully functional one if you know what I mean? Feb 08 22:33:22 ideally not, it's not a very clean way to do things, after all... (though there's the base-files package)... if you need to, usually you can find some related package that you can use Feb 08 22:37:32 Per_n900: i don't think desktop widgets accept keyboard focus Feb 08 22:38:56 <_nicolai_> I cloned the notification light control panel applet with proper layout for portrait mode Feb 08 22:39:02 BCMM: too bad, I would have liked a real terminal pinned to the desktop. Feb 08 22:39:08 <_nicolai_> someone want to put this in CSSU git? Feb 08 22:43:32 some flash videos dont play on the device like this one, http://www.ted.com/talks/nigel_marsh_how_to_make_work_life_balance_work.html Feb 08 22:43:53 I keep wishing I had a window manager running that would allow me to resize and move windows, but it seems nobody else wants this :) Feb 08 22:44:02 is it possible to tweak notification vibration per-event (it is not possible in the "Profiles" Settings applet) Feb 08 22:44:14 specifically, i do not want it to vibrate for new IMs Feb 08 22:44:14 trumee, i havent checked but maybe thats bc n900 still has flash 9... Feb 08 22:44:33 nox-, i have flashtweaker Feb 08 22:44:55 nox-, but it you could check that url i will be grateful Feb 08 22:45:27 BCMM: they can, but they aren't recommended to Feb 08 22:45:28 villager: thanks, the package now builds correctly Feb 08 22:45:35 nox-, i dont want to attribute it to my recent power kernel install Feb 08 22:45:58 Venemo: sorry, i don't quite understand... Feb 08 22:46:11 hm i have power kernel too, maybe i can check it on a x86 flash9 later Feb 08 22:46:39 nox-, so it doesnt work for you too? Feb 08 22:46:46 BCMM: "i don't think desktop widgets accept keyboard focus" ---> they can. take sticky notes as an example Feb 08 22:46:47 sec let me try on n900 first Feb 08 22:46:55 ok Feb 08 22:47:06 BCMM: they just don't do so by default. Feb 08 22:47:08 Venemo: oh, sorry, thought it was about vibration Feb 08 22:47:41 hang on, there's a way to edit vibration patterns, right? Feb 08 22:47:56 BCMM, mce.ini? Feb 08 22:48:25 probably. is there such a thing as a "null" vibration pattern? Feb 08 22:48:46 trumee, yeah n900 says my flash is too old Feb 08 22:49:09 nox-, do you have flashtweaker installed? Feb 08 22:49:12 no Feb 08 22:49:23 Venemo: So then a terminalwidget should be possible? Maybe that would be an excellent start for me to learn some programming. Feb 08 22:49:50 trumee, i see a download link there tho so maybe mplayer etc will play that file then? Feb 08 22:49:57 nox-, ah, with flashtweaker there is no warning at all. and the video also doesnt appear Feb 08 22:50:31 all flashtweaker does is make an applet "try anyway" if it thinks it needs flash 10 Feb 08 22:50:32 Per_n900: it's possible, but noone has done it yet. Feb 08 22:50:40 Per_n900: why not just use the terminal? Feb 08 22:50:53 a lot of the time, the authors were stupid and it actually works (see Facebook videos) Feb 08 22:50:55 nox-, probably, but i wasnt keen on watching the video. i have seen flash failing on some websites, so this explains it Feb 08 22:51:03 ah ok Feb 08 22:51:18 nox-, maybe i should bump up the flash version number Feb 08 22:51:20 i'd like to see user-mode-android running on meego Feb 08 22:51:36 however, in the case that it actually did need flash 10, failing without a proper error is what you'd expect Feb 08 22:52:06 (since you're basically suppressing the mechanism that would say "this won't work on your system") Feb 08 22:52:13 BCMM, *nod* Feb 08 22:52:15 yeah Feb 08 22:53:26 Venemo: I am funny that way :) That would allow me to have several terminals open and see the output of all of them at the same time. Basically, I would like a window manager that would be more desktop like but thats another story... Feb 08 22:53:58 <_nicolai_> I am not that familiar with git, what is necessary to make a package for maemos CSSU? Feb 08 22:54:03 it would have been useful if there was some sort of flash flv downloader in microb. Feb 08 22:54:06 Per_n900: easy debian? Feb 08 22:57:46 Venemo: yes I suppose I could just use that. It just seems such a shame with this powerfull device to not bee able to for instance resize a browserwindow with youtube while I ssh on the other half of the screen. But I guess thats just me. Feb 08 22:58:23 Per_n900: it would be slow as hell Feb 08 22:58:43 nox-, i have another strange issue. On a certain webpage, microb doesnt recognise an input box but desktop firefox does. want to test that? Feb 08 22:59:19 oh hm i think ive seen something like that before too... Feb 08 22:59:41 Maybe, but it does render flashmovies and terminal perfectly acceptable in application switcher :) Feb 08 22:59:47 nox-, Top right search input box, http://www.vbspu.ac.in/component/search Feb 08 23:00:44 nox-, The input box is not clickable at all whereas in firefox it works fine Feb 08 23:00:48 might be a js issue, ff with noscript has the same problem Feb 08 23:01:22 nox-, ah, i see Feb 08 23:03:13 <_nicolai_> good night Feb 08 23:12:02 hi people, good nights Feb 08 23:12:11 some expert about openvpn ? Feb 08 23:12:19 i have blind sockets fail Feb 08 23:12:35 is my N810's backlight supposed to react to light sensor value changes? it doesn't seem to Feb 08 23:12:59 i donw know lili , i m user n900 Feb 08 23:18:03 LjL: it should be, yes Feb 08 23:18:27 LjL: cover the light sensor and then see the light sensor under a direct light, then you should see the difference Feb 08 23:20:40 Venemo: thing is i don't. i have installed advanced-backlight earlier (removed now), i guess maybe that's the cause... i was mainly wondering because i don't know how automatic backlight interfaces with the manual backlight setting in the status bar Feb 08 23:21:32 LjL: well I only had an N810 for a couple of months and already gave it back, but the ambient light sensor definitely worked Feb 08 23:21:45 Venemo: (by the way, i should probably have got an Archos 5 :P not saying the N810 is bad but i do have a feeling Android is way more intuitive for average people. oh well, maybe next person's birthday) Feb 08 23:22:39 LjL: I don't like android... :P Feb 08 23:23:03 LjL: before giving it to her, reflash to latest firmware and also install the community SSU Feb 08 23:23:30 Venemo you know openvpn ? i have problems to connect Feb 08 23:23:41 dado777|2: sorry I've never used openvpn Feb 08 23:24:06 Venemo: i believe it's already got the latest firmware, 5.2-something. what is the community SSU? Feb 08 23:24:56 LjL: well reflashing helps to clean it up and fix software problems, that's why I recommend it Feb 08 23:25:11 i see Feb 08 23:25:36 LjL: http://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo_Community_Project Feb 08 23:27:08 oh yummy Feb 08 23:27:38 oh it includes screen rotation, that's something i wanted Feb 08 23:27:52 LjL: I have not tested it really Feb 08 23:30:15 LjL: not every app supports auto rotation. in fact, few of them do. Feb 08 23:32:31 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/ Feb 08 23:32:36 omg the sky is falling etc Feb 08 23:36:26 im using xchat does anybody know command to stop the notifcations of people joing Feb 08 23:39:39 maybeArgh: lol. Feb 08 23:40:09 maybeArgh: "The first iPhone shipped in 2007, and we still don't have a product that is close to their experience." ---> I think Maemo5 is already vastly superior... Feb 08 23:40:37 In some ways, yes. Feb 08 23:40:43 maybeArgh, if nokia adopts windows phone 7 this n900 was the last product I will ever buy from nokia. Same with android, it sucks as bad as winphone7. Feb 08 23:40:53 For .1-10% of customers. Feb 08 23:41:25 im using xchat does anybody know command to stop the notifcations of people joining , takes up all the screen Feb 08 23:41:27 * SpeedEvil points to the somewhat depressing graph on http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nokia/n900/ Feb 08 23:41:45 im using xchat does anybody know command to stop the notifcations of people joining , takes up all the screen Feb 08 23:41:58 Loveable_rouge: we read your message the first time Feb 08 23:42:07 Loveable_rouge: I don't use xchat therefore I dunno how to Feb 08 23:42:27 Per_n900: agreed Feb 08 23:42:38 Per_n900: win phone 7 has a very ugly UI Feb 08 23:42:44 Per_n900: and android is just crap Feb 08 23:44:15 dado777|2, You probably want to check #openvpn channel Feb 08 23:44:24 how to hide a window coming in task switcher or application grid Feb 08 23:44:35 * opened apps Feb 08 23:44:37 Loveable_rouge, i would like to do that too. Feb 08 23:45:22 Venemo, yes it is. I instinctively hate everything that needs to be rooted to be usable. Feb 08 23:45:44 trumee , some1 did tell me code but can remember now !! aaahhhh Feb 08 23:46:33 Per_n900: the problem with android is that the world's most evil company is behind it. Feb 08 23:47:22 Loveable_rouge, /SET irc_conf_mode 1 Feb 08 23:48:07 know nice client irc ? Feb 08 23:48:21 not like xchat es to hard to read the channels and querys Feb 08 23:48:23 Xchat is good Feb 08 23:48:30 is hard to read Feb 08 23:48:33 I prefer Konversation Feb 08 23:48:34 Venemo, I know. Google, NSA... No big difference. Feb 08 23:48:52 @trume thanks a bunch Feb 08 23:48:52 dado777|2, increase font size in preferences Feb 08 23:48:58 Per_n900: anyway I can understand the article and also their viewpoint Feb 08 23:49:03 dado777|2: google. http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3414 Feb 08 23:49:11 Loveable_rouge, np. Feb 08 23:49:17 Per_n900: their management screwed it up with their own platforms so much. Feb 08 23:49:54 is ok, i try increase front size Feb 08 23:52:02 Per_n900: with some more effort, they could have made fremantle the best platform out there Feb 08 23:52:49 Or push harmattan to be less ambitious and quicker. Feb 08 23:52:59 Venemo, I would say it already is, but I guess many would not agree. Feb 08 23:53:17 Accept that most apps may be GTK/hildon based, and Qt is not mandatory Feb 08 23:54:22 Per_n900: well there are many things in the UX that would need polishing Feb 08 23:59:13 Venemo, sure. Its not perfect. I had an iphone before i got this n900, and I found that completely useless despite its well polished UX. The only thing that really bothers me with the n900 is not even related to the UX. Its the position of the chargerport... Its at so the wrong place and in the way when using the device :( Feb 08 23:59:14 dado777|2: i found communi to work ewll Feb 08 23:59:46 Per_n900: :) Feb 08 23:59:59 i really need to look for apps more... Feb 09 00:00:25 i've been vaguely wondering about mixers and shell scripts and putting the sound from a phone call out over FM Feb 09 00:00:44 and then accidentally stumble on a nice GUI that does that already Feb 09 00:01:38 Heh Feb 09 00:05:47 hiii Feb 09 00:06:28 Alguien despierto ?Some people live ? Feb 09 00:11:11 hello Dado7 Feb 09 00:11:11 Dado7: not many, since it's 01:10 AM here Feb 09 00:11:17 jajajaj Feb 09 00:11:23 i know Feb 09 00:11:35 is this time in spain Feb 09 00:11:55 venemo i have one fail in my phone..... Feb 09 00:12:01 Dado7: it's in whole central Europe. Feb 09 00:12:03 Dado7: what fail is that Feb 09 00:12:08 dont read target mmemoryyy Feb 09 00:12:24 i have 4 diferents memory cards Feb 09 00:12:31 and dont read Feb 09 00:12:42 i have 16 gi clas 6 Feb 09 00:12:59 and 2 gigas Feb 09 00:13:12 and? Feb 09 00:13:53 i try my diferents memory cards and my phone dont reads Feb 09 00:14:10 Venemo: where are you from if you dont mind me asking? Feb 09 00:14:11 this cards works in others phones Feb 09 00:14:39 Per_n900: I'm from Hungary Feb 09 00:15:13 nice womans from your country Feb 09 00:16:26 Per_n900: and you? Feb 09 00:18:21 per is sleep Feb 09 00:18:28 Venemo: Sweden, so I atleast do not have to use euro, I wish someone could put and end to the madness of the european union :) Feb 09 00:18:44 Per_n900: there is no euro here (yet) either Feb 09 00:18:48 kram kram Feb 09 00:18:50 Per_n900: what's wrong with the union? Feb 09 00:19:21 Dado7: Per never sleeps... Haha kram... That is swedish! Feb 09 00:19:45 i have exgirlfriend to sweeden Feb 09 00:19:53 i was meet in londom Feb 09 00:20:18 Venemo, they are building what hitler wanted wanted to do but failed. Exactly that. Feb 09 00:20:26 Per_n900: what? Feb 09 00:20:42 Dado7: was she pretty? Feb 09 00:20:56 pretty and bastard Feb 09 00:21:38 Venemo: one world government, one currency, one world central bank etc. Feb 09 00:22:17 The keyboard on the n900 is pretty ok for typing once you get the hang of it :) Feb 09 00:22:46 i m in n900 xchat :D Feb 09 00:23:09 Dado7, you have to pick an ugly one if you dont want her to be a bastard :) Feb 09 00:23:09 i reckon typing with two thumbs is about as fast as typing with two index fingers in a full-size keyboard Feb 09 00:23:40 (i mean, like one of those people who works with a computer but never learned to type, not like the typing of somebody who's never used a computer before) Feb 09 00:24:02 jajaja this is the problem.... likes nice and beautys Feb 09 00:27:40 Per_n900: I consider it a good idea. Feb 09 00:28:34 this world is crazy mite Feb 09 00:32:20 Venemo, I dont know... Most likely it wont work, and will eventually lead to wars anyway. Empires have a 100% failure rate. I especially do not like the part with only one currency that I would be required to use by law. With one world bank and one currency,a handful of people would rule everything and there would ne nothing you culd do about it :) Feb 09 00:34:01 Per_n900: well the EU is about Europe, not about the whole world. Feb 09 00:34:35 this remember me a words spanish: ¿Recuerdas ? Quisimos cambiar el mundo y solo cambiamos nosotros.... Feb 09 00:35:44 Can anyone tell me what might be wrong with my code? http://pastebin.com/d3Ep08Es Feb 09 00:36:00 All I get as output when I run my test program is " Feb 09 00:36:02 " Feb 09 00:36:05 "segmentation fault" Feb 09 00:36:34 Venemo, for now yes, but it is only a part of the whole. There will be the american union with canada mexico america that uses the amero as money when the dollar fails and it soon will, and gradually the different unions will merge. The currency is already in place, the SDR. But this is maemo forum :) Feb 09 00:38:00 Dado7: ? Feb 09 00:38:59 is hard to me translate to english this spanish words, and i write from my cell, cannot translate for you with googlr translate Feb 09 00:41:27 Dado7: I studied spanish for 3 years, but cannot remeber anything but ordenador :) Feb 09 00:41:36 jajaj Feb 09 00:41:47 entiendes si te hablo asi ? Feb 09 00:41:58 jajaja Feb 09 00:43:27 i read in forums about memory cards, mayby the problem can resolve with magnent in the tap down Feb 09 00:43:44 for can resolve and read the memory card Feb 09 00:57:20 is time to sleep Feb 09 00:57:28 good nights people Feb 09 00:57:43 see you tomorrow Feb 09 00:57:45 bye Feb 09 01:00:05 bye Dado7 Feb 09 01:00:24 I am trying to make a kernel for N900, with Ubuntu x86 host Feb 09 01:00:41 it's not easy! there are different instructions here or there Feb 09 01:00:42 Per_n900: :) Feb 09 01:01:02 bah, why wont this code work :( Feb 09 01:01:51 jonwil: pastebin? I'm rather good at finding problems Feb 09 01:01:57 http://pastebin.com/d3Ep08Es Feb 09 01:02:10 Just says "Segmentation fault" when I run it on my N900 Feb 09 01:02:35 gcc -fpic -fPIC -O2 `pkg-config --cflags glib-2.0 gconf-2.0` -I /usr/include/icd/ -o $@ -c $< Feb 09 01:02:42 gcc `pkg-config --libs glib-2.0 gconf-2.0` -o $@ $< Feb 09 01:02:46 Thats the compile options Feb 09 01:02:55 from my makefile Feb 09 01:03:17 try -O0 -g Feb 09 01:03:24 for debug, then gdb it Feb 09 01:05:58 what do I need to do to get GDB going? Feb 09 01:06:14 oh. sorry I don't know, on the N900 Feb 09 01:06:20 is gdb installed? Feb 09 01:06:29 I dont know how to install GDB on the N900 Feb 09 01:06:49 yes I don't know either how to make that go on the N900 :( Feb 09 01:07:19 Lets try good old "printf debugging" then Feb 09 01:08:14 gdb is in tools i think Feb 09 01:09:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 Feb 09 01:09:37 there's so many things in that code to go wrong Feb 09 01:11:39 hmmm well I added a g_print("test 1\n"); line after the GError* err = NULL; Feb 09 01:11:42 and its not even getting there Feb 09 01:13:46 jonwil: could be buffered Feb 09 01:13:51 printf is buffered. Feb 09 01:14:32 i.e. it does print but never flushes the file descriptor, so you see nothing Feb 09 01:15:13 you mean stdout isnt line buffered by default on ttys? Feb 09 01:15:27 well if its that add an fflush(stdout) after the printf Feb 09 01:16:25 well I commented everything out so all I have now is basically this Feb 09 01:16:27 http://pastebin.com/efq03fRh Feb 09 01:16:29 and its still segfaulting Feb 09 01:16:36 so I think my compiler options are fubar Feb 09 01:17:07 gcc -fpic -fPIC -O2 `pkg-config --cflags glib-2.0 gconf-2.0` -I /usr/include/icd/ -o $@ -c $< is my compile line Feb 09 01:17:12 gcc `pkg-config --libs glib-2.0 gconf-2.0` -o $@ $< is the link Feb 09 01:17:19 anyone see anything wrong with those? Feb 09 01:17:25 I have no idea about the -fpic -fPIC Feb 09 01:17:36 position independent code Feb 09 01:17:43 do I need those? Feb 09 01:17:49 um, try -O0 *not* -O2 Feb 09 01:17:58 -O0 no optimization Feb 09 01:18:04 and -g, and install gdb from tools :) Feb 09 01:18:47 still segfaulting with -O0 Feb 09 01:18:50 oh and you used g_print, no idea how buffering is there Feb 09 01:18:55 looks like I got no choice but to try GDB Feb 09 01:19:28 jonwil: I see nothing specific that you can't just compile and run it on a laptop host Feb 09 01:20:03 except that those gconf commands wont return data on anything but a N900 Feb 09 01:20:07 I mean laptop / desktop host ; who uses a desktop anymore? but well I forget maybe some people have real money they can afford a computer ;) Feb 09 01:20:17 I have not one but TWO desktops here Feb 09 01:20:22 one as my main box Feb 09 01:20:26 and the other is my Gentoo box Feb 09 01:20:28 for N900 dev Feb 09 01:20:34 main box runs XP :P Feb 09 01:20:42 for my gaming :P Feb 09 01:22:09 * SpeedEvil compiles on the n900. Feb 09 01:22:34 It's faster than my second-to-last laptop Feb 09 01:27:00 jonwil, use steam client? Feb 09 01:27:18 steam? Feb 09 01:27:25 if you mean the gaming thing then no I dont use it Feb 09 01:27:35 alright. Feb 09 01:27:58 steam is like msn messenger except for gamers. Feb 09 01:28:15 I know what it is :) Feb 09 01:28:45 awesome! visit www.steamcommunity.com/groups/ES4S Feb 09 01:29:39 hmmm, I am following the steps to install GDB, I added the tools repo and ran apt-get update and then apt-get install gdb Feb 09 01:29:42 per what it says here Feb 09 01:29:43 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Debugging_Guide#Pre-Requisites Feb 09 01:30:02 but apt-get says "Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/g/gdb/gdb_6.8.50.20090417-0maemo2+0m5_armel.deb Size mismatch" Feb 09 01:30:16 oh Feb 09 01:30:29 repo fubar'd? Feb 09 01:30:40 the file exists Feb 09 01:30:49 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/g/gdb/ says it does Feb 09 01:31:16 jonwil try sudo apt-get update Feb 09 01:31:22 yeah index list different size is what i understand that as Feb 09 01:31:25 then try installing it Feb 09 01:31:29 true Feb 09 01:31:34 I am already root Feb 09 01:31:46 doing this through ssh Feb 09 01:31:54 for anyone who owns an N8x0 and has 5 minutes for me, please see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=939566 Feb 09 01:32:33 could I manually download the .deb file to my device and install it that way or would that be bad? Feb 09 01:32:45 jonwil, its only gdb so worth a try Feb 09 01:33:03 if it doesnt run can still remove it Feb 09 01:33:51 how do I manually install the package then? Feb 09 01:33:54 I have it on my phone Feb 09 01:34:03 dpkg -i foo.deb Feb 09 01:34:57 "/home/user/lscon": not in executable format: File format not recognized Feb 09 01:35:03 That tells me something Feb 09 01:35:37 huh Feb 09 01:35:55 thats the arm deb? Feb 09 01:36:06 no, I mean when I run gdb Feb 09 01:36:10 on my app Feb 09 01:36:14 ooh Feb 09 01:36:16 so looks like its not compiling properly Feb 09 01:36:21 or not transferring to the phone properly Feb 09 01:36:23 run file on it on the linux box Feb 09 01:36:41 the build box Feb 09 01:37:06 maybe its not crosscompiled for arm... Feb 09 01:37:29 file says its "ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped Feb 09 01:37:35 which looks correct Feb 09 01:37:35 hm Feb 09 01:38:31 does gdb work on other executables? Feb 09 01:38:41 aha, somehow my FTP client was tranferring something as ascii not binary Feb 09 01:38:58 if i connected the phone to a standard usb cable to my laptop, will it start charging? Feb 09 01:39:12 ooh Feb 09 01:39:14 compengi: yes, it should if the laptop is powered Feb 09 01:39:25 oh, that's bad Feb 09 01:39:35 compengi: bad? Feb 09 01:39:40 jonwil, scp also exists :) Feb 09 01:39:57 its solved now Feb 09 01:40:03 :) Feb 09 01:40:06 lucent, yeah, i want to put some files on the phone, but i don't want it to charge Feb 09 01:40:12 Why notr? Feb 09 01:40:33 compengi: why don't you want it to charge, I'm afraid to ask Feb 09 01:40:37 In principle, as root on the n900 - stop bme Feb 09 01:40:41 and then it won't charge Feb 09 01:40:49 you need to start bme afterwards Feb 09 01:40:51 or reboot Feb 09 01:41:30 lucent, i don't like to charge my batteries if they are not fully discharged Feb 09 01:41:55 compengi: your logic is bad when applied to LiIon batteries Feb 09 01:42:04 sorry, you are wrong. Feb 09 01:42:06 compengi: that is very bad practice with li-ion. Feb 09 01:42:20 compengi: They dislike being at full charge most. Feb 09 01:42:28 And then high temperatures. Feb 09 01:42:50 And only then integral charge/discharge amount. Feb 09 01:43:11 when the phone goes off, this doesn't mean that the battery is null Feb 09 01:44:03 I know. It turns off at 3.185V or so, with BME running. 2.745 without. Feb 09 01:44:06 ish Feb 09 01:44:23 And running batteries flat does not help thier lifetimes. Feb 09 01:45:00 BINGO, I now have code that prints out the name and type of every registered network connection Feb 09 01:45:02 I think Li-ion is best kept at 40% - 70% charge ? Feb 09 01:45:10 jonwil: yay! what was the problem? Feb 09 01:45:17 ascii ftp :) Feb 09 01:45:20 yeah Feb 09 01:45:43 its asking for every directory under /system/osso/connectivity/IAP in gconf Feb 09 01:45:43 jonwil: :) Feb 09 01:45:47 then obtaining the name and type Feb 09 01:45:51 and printing them Feb 09 01:46:28 now I need to take this code and do the hard part (make a control panel applet that displays the WiFi networks in a list and lets you set one as "home" network) Feb 09 01:46:45 jonwil: or "gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP" Feb 09 01:46:49 but yeah yours is cleaner Feb 09 01:47:01 Random talk from defcon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htDMu7USsZQ :) Feb 09 01:47:17 yay SpeedEvil neator Feb 09 01:48:11 is it true that u.s. cards still only use magstripes? Feb 09 01:48:25 nox-: rthis isn't related to that so much. Feb 09 01:48:32 nox-: It's hardware attacks. Feb 09 01:48:34 ah ok havent watched yet Feb 09 01:48:37 And remote attacks. Feb 09 01:48:51 i c Feb 09 01:48:55 For example - a ~3 seconds physical attack that owns the ATM. Feb 09 01:49:01 haha Feb 09 01:53:08 * jonwil wonders if this "always connect to home wireless network if its accessible regardless of what other network you may be connected to" ICD policy plugin is actually of use Feb 09 01:54:13 Yes. Feb 09 01:54:37 though if it is available may mean polling frequently Feb 09 01:55:12 no, I suspect that ICD gets informed when a new network becomes visible Feb 09 01:55:28 There is a poll time somewhere in settings Feb 09 01:57:48 The one thing I dont know (and cant test myself) is what happens if you have one wifi network in range (and are connected to it) and then move into range of another WiFi network Feb 09 01:58:00 and what calls are made to the policy plugins in that instance Feb 09 01:58:35 * nox- is more worried about that powersaving bug that seems to turn off the radio at the `wrong' time and makes it miss beacon frames causing it to send endless poll requests... Feb 09 01:58:48 works for me. Feb 09 01:59:08 To debug that, I suspect you need a protocol analyser, and a copy of the wifi spec. Feb 09 01:59:23 Which is horrible. Feb 09 01:59:33 It's a maze of crosslinked docs. Feb 09 01:59:38 yeah thats what i suspect :) Feb 09 01:59:45 With no overall rationale. Feb 09 02:00:02 night1 Feb 09 02:01:13 s/1/!/ Feb 09 02:03:17 good idea Feb 09 02:03:22 gnite SpeedEvil Feb 09 02:10:36 SpeedEvil, i've heard that many times, but after my experience with few old nokia phones and the latest n79 it showed that the battery goes weaker and drops from full to the middle or to empty on the scale if i charge it frequently Feb 09 02:13:18 SpeedEvil, my dad has an old nokia 6210i probably, afaik he has a li-ion battery and he uses it for 8 years now. it is still working with same performance as before Feb 09 02:15:05 he waits till his phones dies and then puts a small bulb to completely discharge it. then charges it. and it works for 8 years now Feb 09 02:16:43 idk if those devs out there tell lies for companies benefit Feb 09 02:17:14 but i've seen many people that buy new batteries each year because they don't work anymore Feb 09 02:20:57 i'm not sure which method is the right one, but apparently what you suggested totally contradicts with dad's use and if that method damages li-ion battery, it won't have last for 8 years, would it? Feb 09 02:34:18 hi is there any webkit browser for maemo 5? Feb 09 02:56:13 how do you copy a short piece of text from a webpage? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 09 02:59:57 2011