**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 11 02:59:57 2011 Feb 11 03:00:15 why is everyone so annoyed about n900 gps all the time? Feb 11 03:00:50 does it have a problem? Feb 11 03:01:35 I dont have any problem with it Feb 11 03:06:02 DocScrutinizer: You are in Germany, right? Feb 11 03:06:22 mhm Feb 11 03:06:42 DocScrutinizer51: You are not tired? Time over there is 04:05? Feb 11 03:07:08 hmm Feb 11 03:07:49 I have no problem with N900 GPS Feb 11 03:07:51 Just wondering, you seem to be like me. Like being up during the nights Feb 11 03:08:01 but people using MeeGo on N900 with a non-working GPS certainly do Feb 11 03:11:40 not like me 7pm in old California Feb 11 03:12:01 no burning the midnight oil Feb 11 03:12:56 ok so you weren't actually chit chatting Feb 11 03:12:59 owell my bad Feb 11 03:14:00 just saying temperature in the 70s with blue skys in Winter isn't too bad Feb 11 03:14:39 * johnx shakes first at you from the still coolish/dampish north Feb 11 03:15:13 :D Feb 11 03:15:41 * jonwil wishes he had some headers for libisi (or some other n900 code for sending isi packets so I could test stuff out) Feb 11 03:15:49 yes, sorry Southern California it's really a country in its own right Feb 11 03:16:04 Its too hard to disconnect the ofono isi code from the rest of ofono :P Feb 11 03:16:39 yigal: only places not freezing to death are CA and FL Feb 11 03:18:36 ya it's just our economy that's frozen over Feb 11 03:23:35 nah, it's US moral that's at 0 kelvin Feb 11 03:24:23 DocScrutinizer, jeez. Who pissed in your cheerios :P Feb 11 03:25:50 fsckng killing innocent Reuters reporters, helping Dads and possibly also childs (shit, missed them), then asking for same treatment for the ones publishing the video Feb 11 03:27:03 DocScrutinizer51: What happening is that about? Egypt or? Feb 11 03:27:03 damn, even WE over here are ashamed for the USA for being on same planet Feb 11 03:27:32 nah, Iraq Feb 11 03:27:40 lol Feb 11 03:28:08 that's the new product from Apple right, the iRack? Feb 11 03:28:18 DocScrutinizer, sooo, just FYI, when make you sweeping generalizations about all the people in a country, it tends to make people feel defensive Feb 11 03:28:32 DocScrutinizer51: Ah yes, you have also seen the documentary on ITV called The War You Don't See? Feb 11 03:29:50 DocScrutinizer51: I can recommend that documentary for you which tells very much in case you haven't seen it. Feb 11 03:30:01 I think i saw part of that Feb 11 03:30:18 what about generalization when here everybody been a nazi? Feb 11 03:30:25 btw anyone in GB wants some great noodle-paste i'm putting together another order Feb 11 03:30:34 GB/UK Feb 11 03:30:43 Jew in California Feb 11 03:31:11 johnx: I kind of agree with DocScrutinizer on that thing but though I believe the problem is more the government, not the people. Feb 11 03:31:21 those wo don't speak out loud and stand up against are as guilty as the frontmen Feb 11 03:32:01 i agree with DocScrutinizer51 of course Feb 11 03:32:11 there's speaking and then there's action and both are necessary in pov Feb 11 03:32:39 DrGrov, I was against the war in Afghanistan, to say nothing of Iraq. I voted against Bush. Feb 11 03:32:50 If you want to alienate people who agree with you, go ahead though Feb 11 03:33:01 here in Germany a radio or TV moderator or politician honestly suggesting to kill Asange would go to prison Feb 11 03:33:02 johnx: That is not my intention. Feb 11 03:33:14 DrGrov, right. that last one wasn't aimed at you ;) Feb 11 03:33:19 in US you get visitors Feb 11 03:33:21 johnx: Ok, no problem :) Feb 11 03:33:43 should have prefixed it with the right nick. my bad ... Feb 11 03:34:21 johnx: Good, I was also against the war in Afghanistan and of course more so Iraq. Never Bush. Feb 11 03:34:58 johnx: But I do have my own non American reasons for those opinions though. Nothing to do with the people but as I mentioned more to do with the politicians. Feb 11 03:35:03 I dearly wish we could figure out a way to fix our voting system to make it easier for third parties to gain ground Feb 11 03:35:25 well, figuring it out is one thing, getting it enacted is another Feb 11 03:35:30 I really do hope Assange gets out clear and free from those rape accusations Feb 11 03:35:33 johnx: it's rediculous right now Feb 11 03:35:53 the number of Feb 11 03:36:07 representatives per citizen Feb 11 03:36:18 Perhaps it's just me but I feel that the American government is sticking its nose into business that is not theirs to be decided Feb 11 03:36:40 yes well that's in general what the world does Feb 11 03:36:43 johnx: What is the general opinion of Barack Obama in the U.S ? Feb 11 03:36:56 bad for local business Feb 11 03:37:21 DrGrov, generally positive I think. Though I'm here in Seattle and politics tend to be pretty liberal around here Feb 11 03:37:51 johnx: I see. I think Obama could perhaps be a long term solution to gain some kind of stability. Feb 11 03:38:03 If he can manage to keep the healt care reform from getting killed, I think he'll have had an overall positive impact Feb 11 03:38:24 yes but have you been following the abortion issues surrounding the health care measure Feb 11 03:38:44 Yes, I have. It is insane Feb 11 03:38:47 yes, I really hope we can get something reasonable passed Feb 11 03:38:49 yigal, not as closely as I should have (/me reads the cliff notes) Feb 11 03:39:02 johnx: it's pretty bad, imo Feb 11 03:39:41 non-interventionism is a clear, constitutional credo Feb 11 03:41:34 best of wishes gentlemen I'm off Feb 11 03:44:37 pupnik: Care to get the link for that documentary? Feb 11 03:46:05 http://www.viddler.com/explore/TruceAssholes/videos/7/ [ The War You Don't See - John Pilger ] Feb 11 05:57:44 I dont think ANY politician has been willing to consider REAL healthcare reform in a way that delivers better outcomes for people Feb 11 06:01:26 jonwil: Of course not. It wouldn't make them money. Feb 11 06:01:58 REAL reform means introducing genuine competition so people can switch to a cheaper provider anytime they like without loss of cover Feb 11 06:02:38 and it means an end to the "corporate health plan" and the large number of people who cant afford to quit their job in case they cant find a new one with coverage Feb 11 06:05:09 Australia has it right, they have basic health-care for everyone plus a large choice of private health care options for better service in hospitals or for coverage of things like dental work, glasses etc Feb 11 06:06:19 hello Feb 11 06:06:48 hi Feb 11 06:07:00 It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. Feb 11 06:13:53 its up now Feb 11 06:16:43 * rtyler is sad Feb 11 06:16:57 why? Feb 11 06:16:58 if meego is canned, what will my successor to the n900 be :( Feb 11 06:17:31 who says it is? Feb 11 06:17:57 awafaa of openSUSE fame posted about MeeGo for netbooks dying out, then this: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/09/us-nokia-meego-idUSTRE71832O20110209 Feb 11 06:19:49 rtyler: It is absolutely clear we are all gonna die. Feb 11 06:20:19 rtyler: Andtheendoftheworldiscoming too Feb 11 06:21:03 Hasn't it been obvious that maemo and now meego needed to be on a variety of devices? Feb 11 06:21:18 pupnik: Obvious to whom? Feb 11 06:21:36 us old hats Feb 11 06:21:45 pupnik: If you ask Stskeeps for example, he is quite happy hacking at the core OS, does not need it to be onany devices Feb 11 06:22:07 heh Feb 11 06:22:42 pupnik: I think Nokia just doesn't have the cajones to build a tablet and a smartphone Feb 11 06:22:46 both of which meego could do well at Feb 11 06:23:10 OMG we have got another armchair analyst Feb 11 06:23:18 how about a 3", a 4" and a 5" phone? Feb 11 06:23:33 rtyler: nvidia is a logic/silicon company, not a smartphone/tablet company Feb 11 06:23:44 I'm sure they're plenty happy to just sell chips into other devices Feb 11 06:23:58 s/nvidia/nokia I presume? Feb 11 06:24:04 ah yes Feb 11 06:24:07 * wmarone needs to go to bed Feb 11 06:24:09 heh Feb 11 06:24:31 I just took the tegra powered tablet I had back to the store Feb 11 06:24:40 why? Feb 11 06:24:43 useless Feb 11 06:24:45 * rtyler find tablets boring tbh Feb 11 06:24:55 wmarone: in what way? Feb 11 06:25:08 RST38h: for all the reasons I should have known better, and bought my N900 for Feb 11 06:25:19 too big, no real use, and wifi only Feb 11 06:25:23 oh and the terrible TN screen Feb 11 06:25:39 well, has to be pocketable, as I have said before :) Feb 11 06:25:42 right Feb 11 06:25:50 otherwise, a laptop does just as well and better Feb 11 06:25:58 my goal was to get meego running on it, and I did to a degree Feb 11 06:26:01 except no battery life Feb 11 06:26:27 RST38h: yes, I plan on redirecting the money towards an E-350 based netbook at some point Feb 11 06:26:42 now that my aspire one can barely hold itself together :/ Feb 11 06:26:55 netbook != laptop Feb 11 06:27:01 sure Feb 11 06:27:17 pupnik: modern laptops can do 6-8 hours Feb 11 06:27:35 but the standby sucks Feb 11 06:27:36 pupnik: and you normally store them plugged in anyway Feb 11 06:28:30 i'm going to be using my thinkpad x200 tablet with wwan/gps for a while Feb 11 06:28:53 but with 1-2 spare batteries Feb 11 06:30:08 it can get about 8 hours with all powersaving on, screen brightness unusably dark Feb 11 06:30:29 and a brand new 4600mAh pack Feb 11 06:30:41 right now my real use is about 3 hours Feb 11 06:31:06 Lenovos suck and thusdo not count =) Feb 11 06:32:12 i looked a long time, didn't see anything i liked better Feb 11 06:33:53 a c-8 with 800x480 and maemo5 would make me real happy Feb 11 06:35:02 Personally, I'd love to see a high-res, high-powered tablet PC with a Maemo 5 interface. It's -responsive-. Feb 11 06:38:02 nick Sicelo Feb 11 07:03:37 Even the simplest looking parts of Maemo can be more complex Feb 11 07:03:45 like the cell operator name status bar widget :P Feb 11 07:20:42 hell Feb 11 07:20:42 o Feb 11 07:28:51 Any idea how to get hold of EPS attachments from an e-mail? The email has one of them little icons for attachment, it's 24.5M and the author said "here are the originals for print" etc, yet I cannot find any menu option to save the attachments. How can I save/view them? Feb 11 07:32:36 well,it's 7:30. the finanial briefing press materials are going to be released any second now Feb 11 07:33:36 How active is Maemo? If I file a bug on this (this problem has been consistant for the last year) is there any chance of an update? I mean, will Maemo get updates? Feb 11 07:38:01 i started the meego rescue mode on my n900 through an initrd (i run maemo normally). The led shines yellow when booted. Is that a sign that it is charging? Feb 11 07:39:59 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/11/open-letter-from-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-and-ceo-steve-ballmer-microsoft/ Feb 11 07:40:27 Coke, well community ssu updates at least. Feb 11 07:40:53 What are ssu updates? Feb 11 07:41:34 Mece_: I noticed this bug last year, haven't seen any updates for it since. Feb 11 07:42:03 * Mece_ facpalms as he reads the open letter Feb 11 07:42:05 I tried sylpheed (iirc), it works, but the UI really isn't adapted to a small screen. Feb 11 07:42:54 It's as if the code testing to show "save attachments" option in the menu fails to see the attachments. Feb 11 07:43:34 The code to test for that little clip icon works, it shows up. Feb 11 07:45:10 Coke, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Feb 11 07:48:57 Mece_: is there a summary changelog for the CSSU? Feb 11 07:50:14 Corsac, probably, dunno where. am to stunned by nokiawin7 fail Feb 11 07:51:36 "Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year." Feb 11 07:55:07 hi all Feb 11 07:55:07 win phone... terrible Feb 11 07:56:36 Mece_: not too sure how well intel likes that :) Feb 11 07:56:52 the “strategic partnership” between them is a bit betrayed by that Feb 11 07:57:04 (though MS wasn't exactly happy to see Intel going the OS road) Feb 11 07:57:24 and what are intel's plans for meego? does anyone know? Feb 11 07:58:48 trx2: don't think they intend to ship a device, though they do intend to have a handset UX running on top of intel hw Feb 11 07:58:52 (like aava stuff) Feb 11 08:01:43 and they specifically say that microsoft tools will be used for development, bye bye qt Feb 11 08:03:36 just had a python-qt book arriving. Not worth reading it anymore? Feb 11 08:06:02 why is this bye bye to qt? Feb 11 08:06:03 If Nokia wanted to kill whats left of their smartphone business, adopting Windows Mobile is the way to do it Feb 11 08:06:07 qt is cross platform Feb 11 08:06:18 i make qt apps for windows Feb 11 08:06:25 jonwil: Exactly what I'm thinking Feb 11 08:06:40 Even Android would be a far better fit for Nokia than Windows Feb 11 08:06:44 jonwil exactly Feb 11 08:06:52 Microsoft probably offered them a -lot- of money Feb 11 08:07:00 since with Android they could completly rewrite the userland for that famous "nokia experience" Feb 11 08:07:20 so what happens to qt as a company Feb 11 08:07:34 Well, they are still working on Meego apparently Feb 11 08:07:54 no, they're still working on launching a meego product Feb 11 08:08:05 one device in the next year, and who knows what happens after that Feb 11 08:08:29 i mean after that, what happens to qt as a whole Feb 11 08:08:35 nokia bought trolltech, did they not? Feb 11 08:08:56 well, now Trollsoft bought Nokia Feb 11 08:09:11 god dammit.... Feb 11 08:09:15 will they just abandon qt as a company? That would completely destroy their reputation from the OSS community Feb 11 08:09:41 some kind of phone with meego must show up... Feb 11 08:09:55 who says it has to be a phone Feb 11 08:10:01 it can just be some slate tablet Feb 11 08:10:01 I think QT'll stick around; if only with what Intel makes Feb 11 08:10:25 i read somewhere that MeeGo has been restructured into the computers department Feb 11 08:10:30 Sazpaimon: I say.. I don't want a tablet.. I want a smartphone ;) Feb 11 08:10:34 so possibly it'll be for netbooks Feb 11 08:10:57 Well, I'd be surprised if they don't throw a 3G+ phone module in whatever it is Feb 11 08:11:15 Considering the effort so far in making Meego work as phone software Feb 11 08:11:43 Qt lived before Nokia and will live after. Feb 11 08:12:16 qtlived because it had a company backing it Feb 11 08:12:17 Now that it's LGPL it will probably continue growing in usage by others. Feb 11 08:12:29 Yea, definitely Feb 11 08:12:37 the only thing I can hope is that nokia releases meego with it's UX experience and it can be flashed onto other devices Feb 11 08:12:47 Forget about MeeGo. Feb 11 08:13:09 Maemo will be the best mobile device platform for years to come. Feb 11 08:13:55 meego's pretty much the same idea Feb 11 08:14:01 just rpms instead of debs Feb 11 08:14:09 but hey, you can install apt on fedora Feb 11 08:14:15 it's not about the package manager Feb 11 08:14:23 it's about how things are organized and the general philosophy Feb 11 08:14:33 Coke: It still would be nice to have a more powerfull device than the N900 for it.. Feb 11 08:14:36 maemo is a fully fledged linux system that just has an UI slick enough to use on a phone Feb 11 08:14:52 haj: yep. don't hold your breath. Feb 11 08:15:00 Coke: I'm not.. :) Feb 11 08:15:07 Sazpaimon: in all fairness, I've only tried the intel meego Feb 11 08:15:26 i'd like to see forward ports of maemo, but quite frankly i dont see it happening Feb 11 08:15:31 but that's the first stumbling block, vendors are trying to lock down their respective meego to their own hardware Feb 11 08:15:46 besides, we haven't seen nokia's handset ux for meego Feb 11 08:16:09 you know, i love maemo and meego to death, but i have to say it just doesn't have the fluidity of iOS and android Feb 11 08:16:15 Nokia is going to go with Winmo 7 and then leave the smartphone business forever. Feb 11 08:16:31 toadpole: have you tried meego on a phone? Feb 11 08:16:43 yup, using it on an n900 Feb 11 08:16:49 using the intel ui? Feb 11 08:16:49 Toadpole: edit /etc/powervr.d/hildon-desktop.ini and set the value to 1 Feb 11 08:17:10 Coke, that's the only UI available for meego Feb 11 08:17:24 ( RobbieThe1st ): whats that do? Feb 11 08:17:25 toadpole: Makes things "iphone-smooth", seriously Feb 11 08:17:35 nokia hasn't shown their UI yet. It was expected they would do it at the MWC, but now, who knows Feb 11 08:17:37 toadpole: I tried using meego on a few devices, it crashes Feb 11 08:17:49 one has to wonder how long nokia and microsoft were in talks Feb 11 08:17:54 In my book, MeeGo is not stable and not fit for use, not even on a laptop or netbook Feb 11 08:17:55 it wouldn't work on the two netbooks i tried it on Feb 11 08:17:59 some problem or the other Feb 11 08:18:03 In other news, Nokia's stock is going dooooooown. Feb 11 08:18:04 because there was an awful lot of silence from nokia in the last year Feb 11 08:18:14 -9% at the moment. Feb 11 08:18:40 Nokia had a great idea, but they didnt market it properly. Now they are desperate and desperate people do stupid things. Feb 11 08:19:32 they ditched the lead designer from one of the most popular hand held OS' on the planet in favour of a marketing guy from a company (MS) who havent done jack shit for the mobile or laptop market. Feb 11 08:19:53 MS haven't improved anything on their system over the last 20 years Feb 11 08:20:23 that's who nokia intends to team up with Feb 11 08:20:38 good plan. Apple will buy them for a nickle in five years Feb 11 08:21:11 Morning all ! Feb 11 08:21:17 What cruel news this morning Feb 11 08:21:43 This move from Nokia is up there with "New Coke" on the list of "bad business decisions made by big companies" Feb 11 08:21:44 Coke: Nah; Microsoft could do -nothing- for their os, and it'd still give em loads of money for 20 years or more Feb 11 08:21:52 Cause of all the legacy software Feb 11 08:21:59 Windows Mobile has already been a flop Feb 11 08:22:05 WP7 that is Feb 11 08:22:11 RobbieThe1st: true, the reason MS sucks is because the customers allow it Feb 11 08:22:17 but they've lost a lot over the last 10 years Feb 11 08:22:23 its too early to throw in the towel on wp7 Feb 11 08:22:30 What... 7% of the desktop market? Feb 11 08:22:38 http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488004 Feb 11 08:22:38 apple has a significant chunk of the desktop market, they have an even bigger chunk of the laptop and well. They own mobile devices right now. Feb 11 08:22:44 desktop and mobile are 2 totally different things Feb 11 08:23:00 Eh, I threw in the wps towel when they tried to be like Apple Feb 11 08:23:04 in case you missed the press release :) Feb 11 08:23:08 s/wps/wp7 Feb 11 08:23:24 even if wp7 were to really "save" nokia Feb 11 08:23:35 they are simply not relevant to me, personally, anymore Feb 11 08:24:34 The big mistake Microsoft made on WP7 is that they coped all the bad things from Apple (like the locked un-hackable OS) and none of the good things Feb 11 08:24:47 Yea Feb 11 08:25:12 Windows Mobile was so popular because the handsets (especially from HTC) were so hackable and customizable Feb 11 08:25:15 Gartner says it's even between symbian and android, with RIM and IOS both at 15% Feb 11 08:25:32 and you could write all sorts of apps with no need to pay anyone anything Feb 11 08:25:36 'Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year.' Feb 11 08:25:45 jonwil: I always said that winmo 6.5 was better than ios and android Feb 11 08:25:57 in fact, it's easier to write Qt apps on winmo than it is on Maemo Feb 11 08:26:10 Pavlov: but with which support ? Feb 11 08:26:46 Pavlov: and did you think it ll be a success ... i don't ... how dev can believe in a plateform where the manufacturer do not believe in it Feb 11 08:27:12 Pavlov: so an other poor ecosystem Feb 11 08:27:14 my crystal ball is a bit blurry Feb 11 08:27:28 I think if Nokia had chosen Android they could have really made something. Replace all the Android UI layer and UX with the "familiar nokia experience" (as one commercial Feb 11 08:27:33 one commercial I saw put it) Feb 11 08:27:33 short term is hard to say Feb 11 08:27:34 isnt it that douchebag Elop who instigated this bullshit? Feb 11 08:27:43 er, shor term not sure how it would work out Feb 11 08:27:48 longer term, hard to say Feb 11 08:27:53 and then underneath the Nokia Feb 11 08:28:10 UI/UX, release a more open Android OS than other vendors are doing Feb 11 08:28:21 android is fucked from the start Feb 11 08:28:26 plagued by a very bad design Feb 11 08:28:30 hm? Feb 11 08:28:38 its a bad hack version of linux with a bad hack of java on top Feb 11 08:28:47 Pavlov: it ll be like maemo ... sidelined project, few support, few sell, few dev ... Feb 11 08:28:54 had they used a proper linux system with support for native libraries, etc, it'd be different Feb 11 08:29:06 Coke: native libs work fine on android Feb 11 08:29:20 welcome to the ndk Feb 11 08:29:23 Pavlov: then how come they have such a hard time porting qt? Feb 11 08:29:32 "they"? Feb 11 08:29:40 enthusiasts working with lighthouse Feb 11 08:29:43 Android isn't using X Feb 11 08:29:44 dunno Feb 11 08:29:57 Hi *, I think I made an error when modifying /etc/event.d/rcS-late, now the n900 won't boot anymore. Anything else besides reflashing? Feb 11 08:29:57 how come I can't run my ARM quake 3 on it? etc Feb 11 08:30:04 did you try? Feb 11 08:30:19 my app on android is 99.9999% native code Feb 11 08:30:20 and a lot of it Feb 11 08:30:24 jhb1: Unless you've got Backupmenu or something, no Feb 11 08:30:33 Pavlov: what toolkit? Feb 11 08:30:47 mostly our own Feb 11 08:30:51 Can I run my PyQt apps that run on Maemo on android? Feb 11 08:30:53 well then Feb 11 08:30:58 I don't have time to write my own toolkit Feb 11 08:31:22 the fact of the matter is, Android is cut of from most linux things because of it's faulty design Feb 11 08:31:40 RobbieThe1st: ah, the daemons of backup got me again. I though 'I should install backupmenu, but didn't do. Should have.... Thanks for your advice Feb 11 08:31:43 android isn't trying to be linux Feb 11 08:31:45 The only hope for a decent platform right now is Intel morestown and MeeGo. Feb 11 08:31:51 not in the slightest Feb 11 08:32:18 * melmoth just came to say goodbye :-) Feb 11 08:32:20 Why won't someone just sell a range of phones running a genuine Linux platform Feb 11 08:32:23 Which cuts them off from seriously good software. Feb 11 08:32:30 jonwil: intel is working on it Feb 11 08:32:38 they have a developer version out Feb 11 08:32:46 Coke: python apps run on android Feb 11 08:32:51 Khertan: not with Qt Feb 11 08:33:02 Coke: not tryed yet Feb 11 08:33:05 I'm not interrested in running a little snippet script, I'm interrested in porting a suite of applications Feb 11 08:33:15 I want to run GIMP on my phone Feb 11 08:33:16 No way Intel will be successful with mobile phones Feb 11 08:33:36 jonwil: no but perhaps some other mobile device Feb 11 08:33:38 Coke: i didn't want to run GIMP ... but want to be able to code pyqt apps on it Feb 11 08:33:43 if they get a pad with phone capabilities I'll buy it Feb 11 08:33:55 I dont want a pad with 3G Feb 11 08:33:55 Coke: the best candidate is still n900 :) Feb 11 08:33:59 Khertan: please let me know if you are successful Feb 11 08:34:05 Khertan: I run pyqt on my n900 Feb 11 08:34:21 What I want is a mobile phone with all the important features of a modern smartphone Feb 11 08:34:24 I want a real keyboard on my phone too Feb 11 08:34:30 but running a good Linux operating system Feb 11 08:34:30 Coke: :) I code directly on it :) (KhtEditor, Khweeteur, ....) Feb 11 08:34:43 with a physical qwerty keyboard Feb 11 08:34:49 Khertan: when I dont have time to port I run X forwarding Feb 11 08:35:09 jonwil: +1 Feb 11 08:35:13 Maemo is the most capapable mobile OS today and will be for some time unless MeeGo really gets going. Feb 11 08:35:26 Coke: indeed Feb 11 08:35:59 One thing is certain though: no more Nokia phones for me. Feb 11 08:36:28 I smelled bad intentions when I first heard Nokia had recruited the failure Elop Feb 11 08:36:34 the press release says: With Nokia's planned move to Windows Phone as its primary smartphone platform, Symbian becomes a franchise platform, leveraging previous investments to harvest additional value. Feb 11 08:36:37 Coke, well it says they will release one meego device Feb 11 08:36:44 basically what I want is the hardware of the HTC Desire Z or Motorola Milestone, the open-source software base of MeeGo (and the general openness of MeeGo), the famous nokia UX and the level of support/updates/improvements of iOS Feb 11 08:36:45 MS can't make software and are unable to sell devices, why get the leader of the losing team? Feb 11 08:36:57 whats that supposed to mean? no future symbian investment? Feb 11 08:37:02 oh my god ... -10,42% Feb 11 08:37:07 http://www.nasdaqomxnordic.com/shares/shareinformation?Instrument=HEX24311 Feb 11 08:37:18 Coke: MS probably payed them a rediculous amount Feb 11 08:37:26 You think that's the case? Feb 11 08:37:57 toadpole: yeah, i wouldn't expect any real new symbian investment Feb 11 08:38:02 run it out on the low end side of things Feb 11 08:38:09 until it stops making money Feb 11 08:38:21 is what i'd do! Feb 11 08:38:22 If MS has paid Nokia money for this, Nokia will have to disclose such information and we will find out soon enough Feb 11 08:38:37 You mean like Intel did? Until they got caught Feb 11 08:38:47 jonwil: you don't know many accountants, do you? :) Feb 11 08:39:03 Money isn't real, good accountants can do magic with it. Feb 11 08:39:08 I actually think tihs is a decent move for nokia Feb 11 08:39:16 but it is all in the details Feb 11 08:39:18 anyone know an android phone that was even half as good as the n9 could have been? Feb 11 08:39:19 Except, nobody will buy their phones. Feb 11 08:39:19 which aren't clear yet Feb 11 08:39:35 what is MS market share? under 1% ? Feb 11 08:39:42 where? Feb 11 08:39:46 on mobile? Feb 11 08:39:47 yes Feb 11 08:39:56 on phones specifically Feb 11 08:40:05 2% in the US? Feb 11 08:40:08 ugh windows phones Feb 11 08:40:17 but that doesn't really mean anything Feb 11 08:40:22 2 years ago, android has 0 marketshare Feb 11 08:40:25 every customer and software vendor I've seen looked at winmo 7, shook their heads and then ported from winmo 6.5 to ios or android Feb 11 08:40:26 it s funny elop talk about a good ecosystem is important, and day later he announce switch to wp7 which have a worst one than Meego Feb 11 08:40:35 Pavlov: the difference is, Android is pretty solid Feb 11 08:40:45 WP7 is almost solid Feb 11 08:40:49 did he actually announce that? Feb 11 08:40:50 Pavlov: no it isnt Feb 11 08:40:54 yeah it is Feb 11 08:40:59 Ok, we disagree then. Feb 11 08:41:01 that they are switching to WP7 Feb 11 08:41:02 they need to release a native development kit Feb 11 08:41:04 dotblank: yes Feb 11 08:41:08 ( Pavlov ): i wouldn't bet on it... it's an MS product, it'll take years to get it right Feb 11 08:41:09 I think Nokia's real problem was that they have nothing. Maemo was dead the moment MeeGo appeared and MeeGo is far from usable for a mainstream consumer smartphone Feb 11 08:41:10 they need to polish the OS Feb 11 08:41:13 Pavlov: and an great os Feb 11 08:41:16 Apparently Windows Mobile still outsells WP7 Feb 11 08:41:30 WebOS, iOS and Blackberry are closed and not an option for Nokia Feb 11 08:41:30 toadpole: they have a history of making their 2nd or 3rd releases pretty solid Feb 11 08:41:40 well as long as they still developm meego Feb 11 08:41:40 Pavlov: they have to replace their UI, it's not user friendly in the slightest, ditch silverlight, make it less restrictive and rewrite the core from scratch Feb 11 08:41:42 so that left WP7 or Android Feb 11 08:41:51 the core is fine Feb 11 08:41:55 HOW DO YOU LIKE DEM WINDOWS Feb 11 08:41:57 continue to merge with windows 8 Feb 11 08:41:59 Pavlov: until you use it Feb 11 08:42:02 :( Feb 11 08:42:04 Pavlov: I disagree with you again. Feb 11 08:42:23 so... was the decision to shoot itself in the foot something related to shareholders or what? Feb 11 08:42:30 However. If Nokia has a rather liberal end user license maybe we'll see a Qt port for windows too Feb 11 08:42:36 part of their UX is quite interesting, part of it needs more work Feb 11 08:42:50 I think the #1 thing Microsoft could do to improve Windows Phone 7 and its prospects for long term survival is to dump the developer license fees Feb 11 08:42:51 uh what's the announcement? Feb 11 08:42:56 Yea I don't see how WP7 would make sense without a Qt port Feb 11 08:43:02 Pavlov: it still felt crippled compared to android, ios and maemo Feb 11 08:43:05 why does Qt factor in? Feb 11 08:43:07 MohammadAG: a suicide one Feb 11 08:43:09 Maybe retain fees for submitting to the WP7 marketplace Feb 11 08:43:21 you've got to think total reset Feb 11 08:43:22 but ditch the requirement to pay fees just to write your own software for the thing Feb 11 08:43:23 Pavlov: because that's the toolkit I use when I want to reach many target platforms Feb 11 08:43:31 Pavlov: if I write using MS SDK I can only run it on MS Feb 11 08:43:38 if I use Apple's SDK I can only run on ios Feb 11 08:43:43 if I use android SDK I can only run on Android Feb 11 08:43:44 etc Feb 11 08:43:51 right -- and Qt doesn't help you on any of those Feb 11 08:43:51 Coke: and only for one version of windows Feb 11 08:44:09 I saw someone was working on a qt android port in the works Feb 11 08:44:10 i understand why you as a developer want Qt Feb 11 08:44:13 Our systems are ported to windows xp, windows vista, windows 7, linux 32, linux 64, Maemo and OSX. Feb 11 08:44:16 omg Feb 11 08:44:18 I also work on an iphone one as well Feb 11 08:44:21 but that isn't the same as it making sense for Nokia or Microsoft Feb 11 08:44:32 Nokia will use Windows 7 Phone series Feb 11 08:44:34 wtf?! Feb 11 08:44:35 Pavlov: qt can be used to write end user apps on symbian, meego, (soon Android), and is present in WebOS Feb 11 08:44:37 oh it also runs on winmo 6.5, but nobody is using it any more. Feb 11 08:44:40 still maintaing a port tho Feb 11 08:44:44 i don't get how would it work - those 4 things have *completely* different UX paradigms Feb 11 08:44:58 you'll still going to rewrite the whole of your UI Feb 11 08:44:58 Khertan: the first 2 are dead, and no one is using webos right now Feb 11 08:45:00 Khertan: you think Qt will run and integrate properly on android? Feb 11 08:45:04 I think you're doing it wrong if you need to port between linux32 and linux64 ;p Feb 11 08:45:06 I guess there is still intel for meego Feb 11 08:45:15 Coke: there was some announce about it Feb 11 08:45:20 dotblank: yes! I'm hoping morestown will be awesome Feb 11 08:45:29 ShadowJK: or you're doing it very very right Feb 11 08:45:33 Khertan: all I've seen is the blogs of the hobby development of lighthouse Feb 11 08:45:48 I wondered why Nokia didnt jump on lighthouse like a cat on tuna, but now it's painfully clear. Feb 11 08:45:52 kerio, no I think you're doing it very wrong :P Feb 11 08:45:53 dotblank: intel never do a great support of their os ...look at moblin Feb 11 08:46:03 yea Feb 11 08:46:23 maybe its time for intel to get more into smartphones Feb 11 08:46:26 I've managed to crash MeeGo horribly, it's not production ready Feb 11 08:46:39 http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 Feb 11 08:46:41 dotblank: look in the meego bug tracker in netbook ... seems they will stop evolution on netbook ux Feb 11 08:46:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqpVP414WJo Feb 11 08:47:13 honestly I could care less about netbook UX Feb 11 08:47:17 that's the only one Ive seen, the development platform Feb 11 08:47:22 there are like 10 distros that can fill that role Feb 11 08:47:26 DocScrutinizer: Can I set the topic ? =) Feb 11 08:47:27 ShadowJK: ok, port psyco to x64 Feb 11 08:47:30 go ahead Feb 11 08:47:31 dotblank: oh, but the meego UI is actually ver nice Feb 11 08:47:41 Qt will continue to be the development framework for Symbian and Nokia will use Symbian for further devices; continuing to develop strategic applications in Qt for Symbian platform and encouraging application developers to do the same. With 200 million users worldwide and Nokia planning to sell around 150 million more Symbian devices, Symbian still offers unparalleled geographical scale for developers. Feb 11 08:47:54 if MeeGo didnt crash like a drunk turkey I'd use it on our work laptops Feb 11 08:48:11 "Microsoft would make available the existing free Windows Phone Developer Tools; Visual Studio 2010, Expression, Silverlight and the XNA Framework to developers. Together, we will provide guidance for developers wishing to port their applications to Windows Phone. " Feb 11 08:48:15 that makes me sick Feb 11 08:48:19 kerio, it's doing almost only things that according to the C standard produces undefined behaviour :) Feb 11 08:48:39 so no small time developers, unless they plan on making visual studio freeware Feb 11 08:48:49 ShadowJK: well it's the only way Feb 11 08:48:52 Oh Feb 11 08:48:53 ShadowJK: So, Android for us now? Feb 11 08:48:56 so guys... if nokia releases a meego phone, should one buy it? Feb 11 08:49:03 i would Feb 11 08:49:04 it's a canundrum. on one hand, i want a new linux phone Feb 11 08:49:07 When can I kill Elop? Feb 11 08:49:11 Coke: Whom are you asking? Feb 11 08:49:13 on the other hand that money will help sponsor MS Feb 11 08:49:24 slowly, in front of a BSOD Feb 11 08:49:24 RST38h, need an unfucked uncrippled and not locked down device too Feb 11 08:49:26 Coke: hug CSSU and don't let it go for the n900, buy the n9 and hope for a matching thing i suppose Feb 11 08:49:26 there's no need to get personal about it, Coke Feb 11 08:49:27 basically I will be paying to ditch my system Feb 11 08:49:29 Mohammad: The correct question is HOW not WHEN Feb 11 08:49:32 No way in heck Nokia'll pay MS anything Feb 11 08:49:37 Coke, I'd buy it, but I'll bet no such phone is ever released by Nokia. Feb 11 08:49:39 Probably the other way around Feb 11 08:49:39 wouldn't it still be possible to put meego on a nokia wp7 anyway Feb 11 08:49:44 Hmm time to start getting ophono stack working on ununtu I think. Feb 11 08:49:45 ShadowJK: Many Androids fit Feb 11 08:49:46 i need to buy a bunch of N900's Feb 11 08:49:49 RobbieThe1st: not pay like that Feb 11 08:49:53 s/ununtu/ubuntu/ Feb 11 08:49:53 zutesmog meant: Hmm time to start getting ophono stack working on ubuntu I think. Feb 11 08:49:57 ( Ken-Young ): they've said they would release one by the end of the year Feb 11 08:49:57 but, Nokia would use the N9 revenues to develop MS phones Feb 11 08:50:06 dotblank, not if their wp7 phones are like their symbian phones, locked down Feb 11 08:50:07 haha, ununtu Feb 11 08:50:08 ShadowJK: Although the dev environment is majorly bonsaied, yes Feb 11 08:50:09 and with them partnering up with my old nemesis, it's a no go Feb 11 08:50:12 Mece: might have a few hundread for sale soon! Feb 11 08:50:12 possibly Feb 11 08:50:19 ( Coke ): it's not like you're not getting anything for your money Feb 11 08:50:25 Pavlov. cheap? Feb 11 08:50:28 Meh; I'd buy it to show support for the MeeGo brand Feb 11 08:50:30 RST38h, so there's gainroot or similar there too? Feb 11 08:50:33 dunno Feb 11 08:50:34 Provided it's good Feb 11 08:50:35 ShadowJK: yea Feb 11 08:50:37 depends what we decide to do Feb 11 08:50:38 toadpole: true. that's also true for iphone buyers, but the slave workers who manufacter them might still be a concern. Feb 11 08:50:43 Seriosuly i'm not happy with android being the linux phone Feb 11 08:50:43 I mean, for your own feelings. Feb 11 08:50:44 ShadowJK: Not with every phone but with most Feb 11 08:50:49 today, the awesomeness of N900 turned legendary Feb 11 08:50:51 toadpole, Didn't they say they're release a Meego-related device? That might not be a phone. Anyway, who'd trust anything they say now? Feb 11 08:50:57 Nokia expects 2011 and 2012 to be transition years, as the company invests to build the planned winning ecosystem with Microsoft. OH COME ON Feb 11 08:51:07 who decided this? Feb 11 08:51:08 ShadowJK: What puts me off is the lack of SSHD and a decent video player Feb 11 08:51:13 wow. just like 2010-2011 Feb 11 08:51:18 so let me get this straight Feb 11 08:51:23 they killed Maemo 5 Feb 11 08:51:24 ShadowJK: But I guess you can't have everything and some things need time... Feb 11 08:51:28 really I feel like MS is also a dying brand as well Feb 11 08:51:30 Windows Phone 7 is MORE locked down than iOS Feb 11 08:51:32 I think Nokia will divest themselves of Qt or release it entirely open source. Feb 11 08:51:35 ( RST38h ): i think there's a VLC for android Feb 11 08:51:37 They encouraged Qt development, killed M5 development Feb 11 08:51:43 MohammadAG, hehe... well cssu ftfw! Feb 11 08:51:43 toadpole: No. Feb 11 08:51:49 then they encouraged QML development Feb 11 08:51:50 zutesmog: it's LGPL already, how can it get more open source? Feb 11 08:51:51 what if they kill Qt Feb 11 08:52:00 How? Feb 11 08:52:02 zutesmog: that'd be my bet Feb 11 08:52:04 dotblank: Not with Windows and Office, no. Feb 11 08:52:06 it's on gitorious. the sources are there. Feb 11 08:52:08 then switched to a platform that doesn't use QML Feb 11 08:52:08 they're saying they won't kill Qt Feb 11 08:52:11 did you read this? http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 Feb 11 08:52:22 canonical could by the trolltech assets Feb 11 08:52:23 yea but i'm talking later Feb 11 08:52:29 Mohammad: That was chaotic frenzy of rats on a sinking ship Feb 11 08:52:31 How much is a Nexus S again? Feb 11 08:52:33 lolmicrosoft Feb 11 08:52:35 there is no reason to keep Qt around Feb 11 08:52:38 they seem keen on qt at the moment Feb 11 08:52:45 MohammadAG: hold out for the Atrix or other Tegra2 based phone Feb 11 08:52:54 But I want a meego phone ;_; Feb 11 08:52:58 Qt is big.. I can see intel and ubuntu getting buddy buddy Feb 11 08:53:04 Mohammad: I would also suggest the Atrix *or* the supposedly incoming Dell Opus One Feb 11 08:53:05 I'd rather hack a phone and get MeeGo on it than use a WP7 device Feb 11 08:53:12 Qt is the worst thing that could happen for MS, Apple and Google. Feb 11 08:53:13 yep very, Qt/Unity on a smartphone maybe Feb 11 08:53:21 They don't want portability, they want lockability Feb 11 08:53:25 Mohammad: Dell will be more hackable than Motorola Feb 11 08:53:32 I dont care who makes it, I want a nice OPEN phone Feb 11 08:53:41 jonwil: openmoko freerunner Feb 11 08:53:42 Maybe MS want a decent ui toolkit in Qt ;-) Feb 11 08:53:43 :P Feb 11 08:53:45 perhaps some vendor will sell blank phones in the future? Feb 11 08:53:48 with complete hw specs Feb 11 08:53:58 (or decent enough to make linux run on it) Feb 11 08:54:02 Coke: oh you Feb 11 08:54:11 The N900 is the closest you can get to an open phone Feb 11 08:54:13 like u can buy blank desktops today Feb 11 08:54:20 RST38h, the Nexus S has a basic MeeGo port Feb 11 08:54:22 Coke: jester Feb 11 08:54:23 if you want something with somewhat recent hardware Feb 11 08:54:26 someone should develop thier own phone on the u8500 platform Feb 11 08:54:30 Shapeshifter: optimist :) Feb 11 08:54:34 some small electronics company Feb 11 08:54:52 I think part of the problem for Nokia is that the cell carriers HATE open Feb 11 08:55:03 the biggest issue all my friends have with n900 is the lack of a decent spotify port Feb 11 08:55:13 which is why so few cell carriers sold the N900 Feb 11 08:55:23 biggest issue my friends had with the n900 is the screen Feb 11 08:55:26 and the size Feb 11 08:55:29 and battery life Feb 11 08:55:39 mostly the screen Feb 11 08:55:43 well, having a n900 justifies you from using *any* cellphone data plan with your computer Feb 11 08:55:44 Coke: spotify is evil Feb 11 08:55:48 Actually I found battery life to be great now Feb 11 08:55:49 Pavlov: battery is an issue ... indeed Feb 11 08:55:50 Coke: use grooveshark instead Feb 11 08:56:04 Pavlov, what's wrong with the screen, despite size? Feb 11 08:56:13 Also tmo seems to be glitched with my data plan on my n900 so... free 3g for me Feb 11 08:56:14 resistive Feb 11 08:56:25 no one knows how to use them Feb 11 08:56:45 i've literally watched people try and move things with their finger for at least a minute Feb 11 08:56:48 without success Feb 11 08:56:57 the n900 has an awesome screen. I'm still astonished every time I see one of those desire HD screens and all that lot, their pixels are so chunky and bad Feb 11 08:57:03 Shapeshifter, the groove client is dead Feb 11 08:57:28 Shadikka: Amen Feb 11 08:57:33 MohammadAG, ah yea I really need to get on that Feb 11 08:57:50 Shapeshifter: yeah, the actual display part of the screen is pretty nice Feb 11 08:57:53 just the touch part Feb 11 08:58:24 Pavlov: I also like that it's resistive. Ever checked out mypaint? plus the accuracy you get for controlling possible apps which have not been written for a mobile device Feb 11 08:58:38 Pavlov: personnaly i like the touch part ... not like this unaccurate iPhone touch part ! Feb 11 08:58:42 Yea Feb 11 08:58:43 well lets not get into a screen type debate Feb 11 08:58:47 Heh, now that's some tab confusion again. Feb 11 08:58:51 both are good for certain things Feb 11 08:59:03 Five people with nicks starting with "sha" here :) Feb 11 08:59:08 Anybody else snowed in? Feb 11 08:59:16 nope Feb 11 08:59:19 nope Feb 11 08:59:24 nope Feb 11 08:59:25 nope the snow got canceled too Feb 11 08:59:39 couldn't get to work today Feb 11 08:59:57 Nope, no snow here, just lots of wind Feb 11 09:00:06 well, no snowfall :P Feb 11 09:01:05 why not just make n900i with 512Mb RAM? it resolves almost all problems n900 has. Feb 11 09:01:22 Arkenoi: indeed :) Feb 11 09:01:29 Arkenoi: why not N9 with a for row keyboard and new hw? :) Feb 11 09:01:52 it'd be the best phone even if it runs an outdated maemo Feb 11 09:02:03 pavlov: i do not give a f**k. capacitive screens are "sexy" but that's all. resistive ones are better. Feb 11 09:02:11 Arkenoi: noone study for a modification hack to add ram to the n900 ? Feb 11 09:02:47 The screen isn't the point to fight ... taking out wp7 is ! Feb 11 09:03:02 Yes Feb 11 09:03:19 Nokia n9-01 : http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4692/nokiaphone.jpg Feb 11 09:05:40 * Arkenoi won't by a device without a keyboard. Feb 11 09:06:13 and they say it is delayed again anyways, so meego is dead i think. Feb 11 09:06:14 ditto Feb 11 09:06:29 lol everyone is freaking out in all the Qt channels as well Feb 11 09:06:30 guess i need to mirror the nokia n900 repos locally incase they drop them Feb 11 09:06:43 jaska, Good point. Feb 11 09:06:45 Hehe, my buddy just ordered the latest HTC with android, he's ditching is N900 immediately. Feb 11 09:06:46 a new one is scheduled to 2012, and the world will end anyways. Feb 11 09:07:02 Out of spite. Feb 11 09:07:16 I'll never ditch my n900 Feb 11 09:07:19 I still love it Feb 11 09:07:24 me too Feb 11 09:07:35 dotblank: he wants nokia to go bankrupt, doesnt want to promote them in any way shape or form it seems Feb 11 09:07:39 though i wouldn't mind getting an additional qwerty android Feb 11 09:07:43 he's a device geek Feb 11 09:07:50 * SpeedEvil wakes up. Feb 11 09:07:54 where I am noone has even seen my phone before Feb 11 09:08:03 * Arkenoi 'd better buy another n900 as spare device just in case this one dies. There is no migration option anyways. Feb 11 09:08:04 I could lie and say it runs a special version of android Feb 11 09:08:08 So - windows 7 running under qemu is the new way forward? Feb 11 09:08:20 * SpeedEvil ponders actually looking at announcement. Feb 11 09:08:35 Was anything substantive revealed? Feb 11 09:08:51 yes Feb 11 09:08:55 oh man Feb 11 09:09:00 :D Feb 11 09:09:01 Govs in europe and other places are switching to linux quite happily. maybe some day a gov will put a policy in place that communication devices used for the gov need to be open as well, e.g. for security reasons and then there would be an actual economic demand for such devices Feb 11 09:09:23 SpeedEvil, nokia is switching to WP7 Feb 11 09:09:34 SpeedEvil, nokia wp7 and meego dead Feb 11 09:09:36 SpeedEvil: nothing i've seen yet Feb 11 09:09:46 well meego isn't dead there is still intel Feb 11 09:09:46 not exactly that words but kinda Feb 11 09:09:59 dotblank: so it s dead :) Feb 11 09:10:01 I'm waiting for a press release from intel Feb 11 09:10:09 And symbian remains at the low end? Feb 11 09:10:20 yea Feb 11 09:10:22 SpeedEvil: i think symbian is just on a death march Feb 11 09:10:25 until it stops making money Feb 11 09:10:42 maybe I should buy some n900 replacement parts just in case Feb 11 09:11:20 I mean I would think there are enough people that would want a completely open phone Feb 11 09:11:27 guess i need to get some cheapo backup (nonsymbian) dumbphone Feb 11 09:11:27 I'm astonished its taken this long Feb 11 09:13:13 ShadowJK: Because they are bureaucratic marketroids? Feb 11 09:13:57 oh man Nokia, what did you do now? Feb 11 09:14:12 so, big crying? Feb 11 09:14:15 ShadowJK: Who additionally live in their own imaginary world where WP7 is a stunning success, and not 1.5% of North American market? (below WM6.5 with 3%) Feb 11 09:14:45 two losers had united. Feb 11 09:14:48 how near is meego to being able to compete? Feb 11 09:14:50 rmrfchik: as a Finn, a very big one Feb 11 09:15:56 i was afraid of this. when I whined about dropped maemo, i said "they will drop meego as well". damn, I didn't expect they will adopt windows Feb 11 09:16:34 btw there was dalvik for meego already Feb 11 09:16:43 who gives a shit about dalvik :( Feb 11 09:16:46 what does that imply? Feb 11 09:16:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg&feature=player_embedded Feb 11 09:16:53 rmrfchik, I figured they'd at least make one meego device before dropping it. TTheir ADHD is getting worse. Feb 11 09:16:56 It's cause the new CEO's from MS Feb 11 09:16:57 if anything I'd want to run meego on some android hardware :P Feb 11 09:16:58 this is so rage inducing Feb 11 09:17:13 ShadowJK, it could make android fanboys happy (and there is plenty of them) Feb 11 09:17:15 ShadowJK: javispedro says WebOS is worth a look Feb 11 09:17:25 Ken-Young: they still promise to make one meego phone Feb 11 09:17:33 ShadowJK: Linux underneath, with native devkit based on SDL Feb 11 09:17:38 Ken-Young: doesn't help meego. they will have to support 3 SDK: qt/meego (I hope, this will one sdk), Symbian and wp7 Feb 11 09:17:44 "Mobile consumers want, like bing" Feb 11 09:17:47 RST38h, yeah sounds nice Feb 11 09:17:57 Trewas, I don't think so, they promise to make "a meego-related device". THat might not be a phone. Feb 11 09:17:58 Ken-Young: developers will just abandon meego Feb 11 09:18:10 promise LOL Feb 11 09:18:11 rmrfchik, Yup Feb 11 09:18:14 RST38h, HP seems to suck :-( Feb 11 09:18:25 "people like bing"? Really now... Feb 11 09:18:26 Ken-Young: well, a tablet is also possible come to think of it Feb 11 09:18:33 Yup Feb 11 09:18:45 Nothing is also possible. Feb 11 09:18:45 Arkenoi: Why? They have got rid of Fiorina. They fired Hurd Feb 11 09:18:46 I think HP's webOS will have big success. Feb 11 09:18:49 The only hope we can have is that they let TrollTech separate from them Feb 11 09:18:53 I haven't seen anyone who cares and doesn't use google. Bing is -only- used by people who don't care. Feb 11 09:18:58 bing has 100% of the marketshare of people who don't know how to change their search engine Feb 11 09:19:03 Exactly Feb 11 09:19:04 Arkenoi: With all the main assholes gone, HP has good chances Feb 11 09:19:06 Wow.. i don't think elop has nokia's best interests in mine Feb 11 09:19:06 else nokia will kill Qt with them Feb 11 09:19:12 I think hes going for MS Feb 11 09:19:15 RST38h: indeed Feb 11 09:19:18 in mind* Feb 11 09:19:36 I suspect I'll be keeping my n900 for a couple of years, and buying a replacement when it fails Feb 11 09:19:36 webos ftw, win7 is so backward. Feb 11 09:19:48 why not android? Feb 11 09:19:56 RobbieThe1st, I just orderd another N900... Feb 11 09:20:00 mavhc: java ... burk Feb 11 09:20:14 Khertan, you can write C as well Feb 11 09:20:36 Khertan: you can use scheme on android ;) Feb 11 09:20:38 For me, the N900 syncs perfectly with my computer. That is, I drag and drop files onto it. And it works. Feb 11 09:20:40 it's not even java Feb 11 09:20:47 Who cares about iTunes or Zune Feb 11 09:20:51 http://punchcard.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/pypalm-for-palm-webos-development/ Feb 11 09:21:26 crashanddie: nope ... prefer python ... and python isn't useable to run end user apps on android Feb 11 09:21:48 can't you do like jython? Feb 11 09:22:00 RobbieThe1st: Drag and drop? cron + rsync Feb 11 09:22:16 Khertan, as someone looking for a job, you shouldn't disqualify yourself by saying "I'm a python developer" Feb 11 09:22:30 Yeah. Feb 11 09:22:35 crashanddie: ? Feb 11 09:22:40 'I'm a developer that knows python' Feb 11 09:22:44 only bad developers limit their scope to a single language: the language has relatively little importance. Feb 11 09:22:47 Which implies you're willing to learn. Feb 11 09:23:09 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_smartphone_agreement/ <-- bye bye Nokia... been nice knowing you Feb 11 09:23:30 crashanddie: SpeedEvil: indeed ... Feb 11 09:23:37 what's this scripting layer for android thing? Feb 11 09:23:43 Khertan: where are you from? Feb 11 09:23:53 I still believe it MeeGo, but we need newer arm hardware Feb 11 09:23:57 mavhc: jscript? :) Feb 11 09:24:06 chem|st, he's in Paris Feb 11 09:24:15 ty Feb 11 09:24:15 chem|st: france Feb 11 09:24:38 a amazon headhunter was tracking me down somehow (lab123.com) Feb 11 09:24:56 amazon is on the prowl for kindle devs atm apparently Feb 11 09:25:04 california but visas not before june Feb 11 09:25:04 Can I use SL4A to write a real Android application or embed SL4A scripts in my application? -- Yes Feb 11 09:25:06 you don't want to be a kindle dev Feb 11 09:25:20 crashanddie: Why not? Feb 11 09:25:37 actually: You do not want to be a dev for Amazon, unless you're a manager in the EC2 department Feb 11 09:25:47 crashanddie: it is linux 2.6.26 afair Feb 11 09:26:12 Amazon is 100% customer focused. If you announce delays, you get *massacred* Feb 11 09:26:15 ' With the demotion of MeeGo from "platform" to "project", and Torres' surprise departure, we can draw our own conclusion.' - Torres=? Feb 11 09:26:17 crashanddie: it is lab123 looking for coders not amazon Feb 11 09:26:23 sure Feb 11 09:26:26 SpeedEvil: I'm not the sort of person who "syncs" or anything. I drag and drop files where I want them to go(or use cp). Feb 11 09:26:47 RobbieThe1st, 2nd or 3rd time you're saying the same thing? STFU? Feb 11 09:27:02 crashanddie: see his response? Feb 11 09:27:09 Just saying.. Feb 11 09:27:17 SpeedEvil, http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/corporate-governance/group-executive-board/alberto-torres Feb 11 09:27:25 Executive Vice President, MeeGo Computers, Mobile Solutions Feb 11 09:27:32 Ah. Feb 11 09:27:32 SpeedEvil: by now I would say get a new device and put maemo5-with-CSSU on it and you got your massmarket... Feb 11 09:27:33 :. Feb 11 09:27:52 chem|st: If the new devices aren't locked down. Feb 11 09:27:56 And... Feb 11 09:28:12 "Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year." <-- I ... Feb 11 09:28:15 * SpeedEvil sighs at the news. Feb 11 09:28:17 ... wonder what this will actually be... Feb 11 09:28:24 hey, how do i delete files with filebox Feb 11 09:28:24 ruskie: A CD. Feb 11 09:28:29 :) Feb 11 09:28:40 I guess I need to get myself a backup N900 Feb 11 09:28:44 ruskie: Or a t-shirt. Feb 11 09:28:54 ruskie: that is what I thought lately Feb 11 09:29:04 chem|st, I've had plans on getting a second one for a while Feb 11 09:29:09 'I wanted a meego device, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt' Feb 11 09:29:10 http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/nokia-microsoft-in-smart-phone-alliance/story-e6frfkur-1226004642957 Feb 11 09:29:14 :-( Feb 11 09:29:20 SpeedEvil: exactly Feb 11 09:29:25 orlok: Late on that one Feb 11 09:29:28 I grief. Cu and stay strong Feb 11 09:29:29 orlok: you are late Feb 11 09:29:31 Meego related product - promise kept. Feb 11 09:29:39 and maybe one of the S40 devices as a backup phone after everything else breaks down... Feb 11 09:29:44 my N900 is the only phone i've been able to use without it being a pain Feb 11 09:29:47 SpeedEvil, good point... Feb 11 09:29:49 Is it even possible to delete files with Filebox? :S Feb 11 09:30:07 Any other non-droid linux based phones coming out? Feb 11 09:30:20 OpenMoko :D Feb 11 09:30:30 I will never buy a android/iphone/wp7 phone so I will wait till those freaks do something useful Feb 11 09:30:33 orlok: Openmoko related one keeps making noise. Feb 11 09:30:41 In a small way. Feb 11 09:31:01 Truly hideous problem OM has is that their volumes will be tiny. Feb 11 09:31:23 reckon nokia will abandon the linux tablet? Feb 11 09:31:31 So their prices/performance are unattractive, or their initial profit margin is tiny. Feb 11 09:31:35 SpeedEvil, the other problem they have imho is they lack decent design... Feb 11 09:31:41 can you hear me? Feb 11 09:31:44 just copy maemo Feb 11 09:31:47 Pillum: no. Feb 11 09:31:57 oh, thats bad :( Feb 11 09:31:59 Pillum: nope Feb 11 09:32:06 yeah, that's pretty bad Feb 11 09:32:23 orlok, well nokia speek seems to say it'll be an R&D project(I thought this is what it was so far)... Feb 11 09:32:35 hm Feb 11 09:32:40 so, does any of you guys use filebox for n900? Feb 11 09:32:53 If OM could get some decent hardware (say 3G/3.5G cell data for a start along with 3D graphics) they might stand a chance Feb 11 09:32:58 ruskie: It was supposed to be the new way forward for all highend devices at one point. Feb 11 09:33:05 its a pita to use terminal to delete multiple files Feb 11 09:33:15 does any of you guys use filebox for n900? Feb 11 09:33:29 jonwil: 3D graphics is easy - all the SoCs come with it built in. 3G/3.5G is annoyingly hard. Feb 11 09:33:44 jonwil: Vendors are not interested in selling tiny volumes. Feb 11 09:34:20 Maybe the best answer for 3G is to find a vendor willing to sell something similar to the guts of one of those USB 3G broadband sticks Feb 11 09:34:25 except with voice support Feb 11 09:34:47 just buy a nexus s and put meego on it Feb 11 09:34:53 jonwil: Modules are possible, but add bulk and cost. Feb 11 09:35:02 Nexus S has no physical QWERTY Feb 11 09:35:07 g2 then Feb 11 09:35:19 what's the G2? Feb 11 09:35:23 No-one makes an Android handset with physical qwerty that isn't locked down Feb 11 09:35:28 a GSM one that is Feb 11 09:35:32 * orlok actually has a few GSM modules lying about Feb 11 09:35:40 meep meep beep Feb 11 09:35:42 Milestone from Moto has bootloader locks and you cant replace the kernel Feb 11 09:35:48 work makes an arm+linux based GSM data modem Feb 11 09:36:12 g2 was rooted months ago Feb 11 09:36:15 HTC G2/Desire Z is locked and you have to use funky exploits to unlock it to the point where you can replace the kernel Feb 11 09:36:17 so i bagged a few units used for debugging and prototyping before they were turfed Feb 11 09:36:20 i want a smartphone with a "closed" modem Feb 11 09:36:37 serial, ethernet, a button and some LED's. and a SIM socket Feb 11 09:36:38 MohammadAG: hows the progress with your open media player? Feb 11 09:37:13 kerio: what, that relace the A in AT with an X or something? :) Feb 11 09:37:35 orlok: well, the FCC wants modem code to be signed and unhackable Feb 11 09:37:43 yay yet another obsucated version of hayes Feb 11 09:37:50 orlok: It's not that. Feb 11 09:37:59 but hey, a little bug in the sign checking... Feb 11 09:37:59 ahh Feb 11 09:38:04 yeah, i get it Feb 11 09:38:09 orlok: You can do really nasty shit to the network with an uncontrolled radio. Feb 11 09:38:15 yup yup Feb 11 09:38:44 like the guys that decided to tap into their motorola brick those many years ago Feb 11 09:38:50 SpeedEvil: fuck yeah Feb 11 09:39:03 what happens if you have a phone where you can do that? Feb 11 09:39:06 i mean, to you Feb 11 09:39:19 kerio: seen the recent picocell research? Feb 11 09:39:23 btw what was said about vendors not wanting to sell in small quantities, why would Samsung or Marvell or TI be willing to sell an ARM SOC to OpenMoko for a small-production-run device any more than vendors for cell modems would be? Feb 11 09:39:57 jonwil: It's the way the market is. Feb 11 09:39:58 kerio: software controlled radio based picocell, IIRC.. they could do some nasty stuff Feb 11 09:40:15 OpenMoko has even worse support than maemo Feb 11 09:40:21 why would anyone use uit Feb 11 09:40:24 with 4 $15 phones you can crack GSM Feb 11 09:40:25 jonwil: 3G vendors typically need to do a moderate amount of suppot work to get a design working with a customer. Feb 11 09:40:26 * range stabs nokia in the eye. Feb 11 09:40:39 jonwil: well, the support required to get the chip properly integrated into a new bit of hardware for one Feb 11 09:40:47 So they go from one of the most open eco systems in that area to the most closed one they could find? Feb 11 09:40:52 jonwil: If they need to do this support work for 5000 chips, they're not interested. Feb 11 09:41:11 They poured shitloads of work into Qt and into their UX and they go to an OS whichs only great feature is the snazzy UI? Feb 11 09:41:17 Can someone pinch me please? Feb 11 09:41:34 * Pillum pinches range Feb 11 09:42:09 kerio: there was a demonstration in the past few months, at a hacker con i think.. iirc they got fcc permission to demonstrate Feb 11 09:43:29 orlok: they did not need permission. Feb 11 09:43:46 orlok: do you mean ccc conference at berlin? Feb 11 09:43:56 orlok: As they were operating in a permitted for amateur radio band - which happened to overlap a european band Feb 11 09:44:02 eu cellphone band Feb 11 09:44:43 they needed a permission of the german official Feb 11 09:44:55 ahh Feb 11 09:45:05 coulda sworn it was at one of the yank conventions Feb 11 09:45:07 why do smartphones cost more than laptops? Feb 11 09:45:08 Oh - I was referring to defcon 18 Feb 11 09:45:25 yeah defcon sounds like what i was thinking about Feb 11 09:45:49 mavhc: Because laptop parts are widely sourced, and putting together a low-end laptop isn't that challenging. Feb 11 09:46:34 Using 10* less power or more and still getting acceptable performance costs. Feb 11 09:46:47 how do i get mslug to run on mame ? Feb 11 09:46:56 itt always says missing rom or chd immage Feb 11 09:47:03 Pillum: So I was awake. Damn. Feb 11 09:48:15 haha: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ Feb 11 09:48:46 hmm Huawei E1550 actually supports voice calls apparently... so something like a smart/touch book could work with this... I guess Feb 11 09:49:38 Nokia Windows Phones (get used to that phrase) <-- I can't get used to this... makes me want to throw up each time I read it :( Feb 11 09:50:31 Oh, so this time they pissed of all community members? Qt, Symbian and Maemo/Meego? Feb 11 09:50:41 if they don't yield something like N9 my next device may either be another n900 or I'm jumping across to android Feb 11 09:50:54 I'm not jumping to android... Feb 11 09:50:54 is it sure that nokia uses windows mobile? Feb 11 09:50:55 range: everyone. probably even windows fanboys xD Feb 11 09:50:57 there's a big news headline, look under google news Feb 11 09:50:59 Pillum, yes Feb 11 09:51:11 ohhh ;( Feb 11 09:51:17 i cant believe Feb 11 09:51:45 I don't fancy windows phone with that stupid windows icon as a button, its more `eat your face' than apple's iphone which sticks on the back of the device and thus isn't a button Feb 11 09:52:23 calm down dear, it's just an os Feb 11 09:52:29 android maybe ugly with only linux kernel being the one closest to somewhat a little like linux but the rest is garbage.. too bad. n9 would have been my device if they didn't axe it Feb 11 09:52:51 you've never seen WP7 phones have you? Feb 11 09:52:53 psycho_oreos, have they? Feb 11 09:53:36 ruskie, its still rumours that they've axed it, I'd be really disappointed if n9 never comes out or something equivalent to n9 in terms of specs. Feb 11 09:54:28 making 1 phone with each OS isn't a strategy either Feb 11 09:54:58 so why don't you like android? Feb 11 09:55:06 crappy UX? Feb 11 09:55:16 closedness Feb 11 09:55:22 java? Feb 11 09:55:27 java Feb 11 09:55:35 lol Feb 11 09:55:48 that was the problem with nokia, maemo/meego were never meant to take on the world stage because nokia only wanted to focus mainly on symbian. This is why maemo lacked features and hence when it came to n900 as the last stand it failed Feb 11 09:56:07 psycho_oreos, they should have focused on symbian Feb 11 09:56:17 It feels a bit like when oracle bought sun. Feb 11 09:56:18 and kept maemo/meego as R&D until they got something viable Feb 11 09:56:19 *wrong* Feb 11 09:56:23 java, c, python, lua, perl, rhino Feb 11 09:56:24 N900 wasn't supposed to be a last stand. Feb 11 09:56:36 ruskie, they did until they axed like 50% of employees. Thus I'm not happy with symbian in many aspects either Feb 11 09:56:41 It feels like when Compaq bought DEC. Feb 11 09:57:03 nokia never took software seriously Feb 11 09:57:06 my god even the simplest-seeming of plugins can be so hard Feb 11 09:57:08 so complex Feb 11 09:57:13 though N900 does seem like the last stand.. running pretty much what is heralded as the last maemo operating system Feb 11 09:57:16 like the cellular network name status widget Feb 11 09:57:32 mavhc, non-news really Feb 11 09:57:54 indeed, that's why I bought a droid Feb 11 09:58:05 when my n810 died Feb 11 09:58:19 for a tablet I'll be happy with a touchbook Feb 11 09:58:21 well, it still works, just have to plug in a mouse Feb 11 09:58:45 for a phone device... the n900 was nice since it combined what I needed from a mobile device with a basic phone Feb 11 09:58:49 Is there any video feed of the press conference available? Feb 11 09:59:11 i wont believe any of the news until the conference at barcelona Feb 11 09:59:23 http://www-waa-akam.thomson-webcast.net/uk/dispatching/?event_id=2dd7139793f7dc9f43109186244f14dc&portal_id=369401748e8249f142a700d8098a3473 Feb 11 09:59:25 Pillum, this is from the horses mouth so to speak... Feb 11 09:59:34 ruskie: what about the UX? Feb 11 09:59:43 mavhc, of the N900 ? Feb 11 09:59:46 perfect for me Feb 11 09:59:50 mobile computer... Feb 11 10:00:10 the meego handset UX is crap... the droid UX is crap... the icrud UX is crud... atleast for my needs Feb 11 10:00:20 I need something that behaves like a normal desktop computer... Feb 11 10:00:20 WP7 ux is crap Feb 11 10:00:26 not something that behaves like a phone Feb 11 10:00:36 Best ux I have seen on any phone to date is n900 Feb 11 10:00:44 of android Feb 11 10:00:52 if I want something that behaves like a phone I'll buy well a phone... with physical keypad... Feb 11 10:01:08 mavhc, as said... it's phone centric... Feb 11 10:01:15 phone's just an app Feb 11 10:01:18 no Feb 11 10:01:25 the entire UI is built around that app Feb 11 10:01:30 examples? Feb 11 10:02:08 <_berto_> the webcast should be starting now, nokia.com/press Feb 11 10:02:19 yeah Feb 11 10:02:20 the device in essence is meant to be used as a phone... everything that runs on top is just nice shiny candy... Feb 11 10:02:20 it is Feb 11 10:02:23 same as symbian... Feb 11 10:03:09 someone knows if this is still up-to-date info? http://www.techknots.com/mobiles/wp7-limitations Feb 11 10:03:10 symbian is more like locked down version of windows Feb 11 10:03:29 what I wouldn't give for libconnui header files (and headers for related libs) Feb 11 10:03:53 joga: looks a little dated Feb 11 10:03:58 but some is still accurate Feb 11 10:04:15 it would be nice if everything for the N900 could be opened up... now that they basically put a bullet in the already dead horse... Feb 11 10:04:21 * ruskie needs food... Feb 11 10:04:47 yeah, having source code to rapuyama would be cool Feb 11 10:04:49 joga: they've announced some stuff about the mango update, as well, but no date yet Feb 11 10:04:53 Webchat is starting - but you need to register - see above nokia.com/press Feb 11 10:04:58 Pavlov, k Feb 11 10:06:10 wish they'd start -- i'd like to go to sleep Feb 11 10:06:32 Just having source code for the things that arent in some way sensitive would be nice Feb 11 10:07:06 starting now Feb 11 10:07:13 Talk starting now. Feb 11 10:07:17 ruskie: we have meego now Feb 11 10:07:40 * SpeedEvil wishes he was there with some eggs. Feb 11 10:08:28 'A war of ecosystems' - so we're pitching in with the losing side. Feb 11 10:09:23 SpeedEvil, heh s/eggs/grenades/ Feb 11 10:09:48 This is last years speech isn't it? Feb 11 10:09:54 s/meego/wp7/ Feb 11 10:09:58 heh Feb 11 10:10:29 the real question is: when is the first phone Feb 11 10:10:31 might even be better if you smited elop with a small cake Feb 11 10:11:00 Any bets that he says the word meego once? Feb 11 10:11:25 yeah as in `we decided to break up with Intel in terms of meego development' :p Feb 11 10:11:32 * psycho_oreos is gutted Feb 11 10:11:54 yo all have a major issue using ubuntu10.10 every time i connect my n900 it crashes my pc anybody any idea ?>? Feb 11 10:12:37 SpeedEvil: and if he does, that he calls it maygo? ;) Feb 11 10:12:40 stevomanu, I don't have that version of ubuntu and I sort of found the issue was related to the USB hub I was connecting the device to Feb 11 10:12:41 stevomanu: Odd. Do you get an oops or something? Feb 11 10:13:39 nope just dies out , if i boot windows its all fine !! but ubuntu an backtrack both crash !! Feb 11 10:13:52 Damn - I really wish I had eggs now. Feb 11 10:13:59 psycho_oreos its the same in all of my usbs Feb 11 10:14:03 If I was there, I would hit elop with a pie, not eggs Feb 11 10:14:04 :P Feb 11 10:14:17 stevomanu: works fine for me, even with two N900s connected simultaneously. Feb 11 10:14:35 stevomanu, weird, not sure then. Feb 11 10:14:40 Oh my god! It has hotmail! I'm getting it. Feb 11 10:14:52 my n900 has just come back from nokia broken usb , its every since that but cant really see thats the problem # Feb 11 10:14:54 hotmail might be better than ovi mail Feb 11 10:16:18 so many things I could do for the N900 (on either Maemo or MeeGo) if I just had a few pieces of information/headers :P Feb 11 10:16:33 jonwil: what do you want to do Feb 11 10:16:35 ? Feb 11 10:17:34 Firstly there is cell broadcast (which is definatly possible if we knew the right way to connect to/listen for the IncomingCBS DBUS signal Feb 11 10:17:39 this feels to me like they havent fully put a plan together yet Feb 11 10:17:44 i wonder if any of the closed drivers might get opened up under the "meego open source project" Feb 11 10:17:59 :-) Feb 11 10:18:01 I cant see any of the N900 binary blobs being opened up Feb 11 10:18:05 either for Maemo or MeeGo Feb 11 10:18:15 :-( Feb 11 10:18:22 All of the binary blobs are closed for valid reasons Feb 11 10:18:31 like the BME which is closed due to risk of battery damage Feb 11 10:18:40 and the PowerVR blobs Feb 11 10:19:03 jonwil: mediaplayer is closed for what? risk of playing bad music? :D Feb 11 10:19:27 lots of stuff was closed on Maemo because of other reasons like Feb 11 10:19:31 "product differentation" Feb 11 10:19:41 which was the case for a lot of UI code on Fremantle Feb 11 10:20:00 which is sort of irelevant now Feb 11 10:20:14 yeah it would be good to see more Maemo Fremantle code Feb 11 10:20:41 but I dont see it happening :( Feb 11 10:21:12 maybe a last hurrah ! Feb 11 10:21:17 Also on my wishlist is N900 GPS on MeeGo which right now is non-existent. If Nokia documented the isi/phonet calls for the N900 GPS, that could be solved Feb 11 10:22:45 i want my nokwinpho Feb 11 10:23:20 can't see anything the community does now can either compromise nokias direction or maemo/meego dev group :-) Feb 11 10:23:38 how much did nokia's stock crash? Feb 11 10:23:56 i will drop a bomb on nokia if theyll release n9 with win or wont release it at all Feb 11 10:24:00 9 point something percent? Feb 11 10:24:01 kerio: -9.44% currently Feb 11 10:24:05 omg Feb 11 10:24:06 im cereal Feb 11 10:24:09 kerio, it went under 0 Feb 11 10:24:18 9.56 Feb 11 10:25:26 hopefully they haven't signed anything yet... Feb 11 10:25:27 he said t Feb 11 10:25:56 how much is MS paying them to do this? Feb 11 10:26:29 * jonwil wishes he had the Cellmo-headers and Cellmo-icpr82-headers packages that used to exist in nokia-binaries but don't exist there anymore Feb 11 10:26:30 probably the other way Feb 11 10:26:35 Oooh. Feb 11 10:26:46 done deal nothing will change for 2 years when it dawns on them that it wasn't a good move :-j Feb 11 10:27:12 * jonwil also wishes he had access to the Symbian source code that was published one but is now no longer available for download Feb 11 10:27:16 Ms would pay nokia not to use android Feb 11 10:27:59 the ineternet nevar forgets Feb 11 10:28:10 100 mill to not run dalvik is my guess Feb 11 10:28:26 I read that as meego device - one phone - and then no more. Feb 11 10:28:31 yeah Feb 11 10:28:48 With all devs then being pushed onto w7 or symbian Feb 11 10:29:00 symbian will be going away too Feb 11 10:29:08 except maybe s40 Feb 11 10:29:20 s40 is not symbian Feb 11 10:29:30 yeah - I mean the low end. Feb 11 10:29:31 hopefully s40 sticks around Feb 11 10:29:57 http://code.google.com/p/python-for-android/downloads/list Feb 11 10:29:58 but just in case need to get one of those for my own use if ever it arises Feb 11 10:30:16 mavhc, why does there need to be "for-something"... Feb 11 10:30:21 I don't need python for maemo Feb 11 10:30:28 or ruby for maemo... Feb 11 10:30:37 it's the same core as on the desktop... Feb 11 10:30:50 anything that needs a "for-something" isn't the same Feb 11 10:30:53 unfortunately python for android has no real ui though you could in theory do it sdl Feb 11 10:31:27 s/sdl/vi sdl/ Feb 11 10:31:27 zutesmog1 meant: unfortunately python for android has no real ui though you could in theory do it vi sdl Feb 11 10:31:41 zutesmog: really ? Feb 11 10:31:57 s/vi/via/ Feb 11 10:32:22 yeah pygame supposedly runs on android Feb 11 10:32:36 yeah, but i suspect devs want something integrated with the UI Feb 11 10:32:57 zutesmog: it s ok for game ... but ouch making a application ui with pygame is a long path Feb 11 10:33:07 yep so its still not a great story Feb 11 10:33:46 * jonwil still needs to find someone with access to 2 different wireless networks, both of which they can see at the same time Feb 11 10:34:02 does it s possible to code directly on device on android ? (java, or something else) to do end user app like i do it with my n900 ? Feb 11 10:34:06 well at least we can hope that nokia will release full source code of qt and maemo Feb 11 10:34:20 qt is already fully open source Feb 11 10:34:22 kerio: lol ... i doubt they will Feb 11 10:34:25 maemo being more open would be great Feb 11 10:34:27 but it wont happen Feb 11 10:34:30 unfortunatly Feb 11 10:34:41 Qt's open... Feb 11 10:34:51 well cordia will be awesome Feb 11 10:34:56 I hope Feb 11 10:35:00 MohammadAG: i thought it was still with that weird license Feb 11 10:35:07 pyjamas python bindings for webkit might be an alternative for android in the near term but its all a work around Feb 11 10:35:07 no, QT is LGPL last I checked Feb 11 10:35:12 Khertan, probably not Feb 11 10:35:35 I think Android doesn't even have python Feb 11 10:35:49 you can run python through jython iirc Feb 11 10:36:03 this ms garbage makes me more enthusiastic about fully open source meego Feb 11 10:36:12 Mohammad: Android has got its own scripting language Feb 11 10:36:17 Mohammad: Java! =) Feb 11 10:36:18 kerio: QT is LGPL, but you *can* buy a commercial license if you want to change and distribute QT without making your changes public. Feb 11 10:36:20 hahha Feb 11 10:36:30 Why would you need Python, with Java being so perfect? Feb 11 10:36:39 rofl Feb 11 10:36:49 :-) Feb 11 10:37:19 Lol Feb 11 10:38:20 RST38h: python >>>>>>>>>>> java Feb 11 10:38:25 hahahaha Feb 11 10:38:29 s/>/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/g Feb 11 10:38:31 kerio meant: RST38h: python >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>... Feb 11 10:38:38 maybe something will come of pypy on arm - we can only hope Feb 11 10:38:55 I'm thinking of starting Mer v2 Feb 11 10:38:55 i still haven't tried pypy :| Feb 11 10:39:40 yay, there's mac binaries now Feb 11 10:40:03 jonwil: Ask me again this evening (european time) or over the weekend: I do have access to two different networks in my appartement :) Feb 11 10:40:33 jonwil: Or tell me what you're looking for. Feb 11 10:41:31 Mohammad: I have got a better idea Feb 11 10:42:33 Mohammad: Rather than hold onto this or that Linux distro, why not use that goddamn QML/QtQuick to create a platform-agnostic mobile desktop/app suite? Feb 11 10:43:00 Mohammad: Then use other peoples' work in putting Linux onto Android phones Feb 11 10:43:27 I think the way forward is something like what happened to OpenSolaris when Oracle bought Sun Feb 11 10:43:58 grr Feb 11 10:44:05 a community project was set up to replace those bits that got in the way of forward movement... Feb 11 10:44:08 range: are you comfortable with compiling things for the N900 and loading them onto the phone? Feb 11 10:45:50 jonwil: Um, not really, no. Feb 11 10:45:58 http://www.road.de/en/index.html <-- hmm Feb 11 10:46:03 ok, well I can provide a binary file Feb 11 10:46:20 At least I don't have anything set up to do so at the moment. Feb 11 10:46:33 are you comfortable running this binary then? Feb 11 10:46:59 Well, I see you're well known around here - if my n900 still works after that :) Feb 11 10:47:01 BBIAM. Feb 11 10:47:45 dont worry, this file is tested on my N900, its just a logging thing, worst that could happen is if you leave it running too long and it somehow fills up all space on wherever /var/log lives Feb 11 10:47:53 but the logging is only small amount Feb 11 10:47:57 and you can turn it off any time Feb 11 10:48:02 so there is no risk of that Feb 11 10:51:07 Which will cause you device to enter an infinite reboot loop :P Feb 11 10:51:14 s/you/your Feb 11 10:51:35 well the test should be concluded long before it can full the device up Feb 11 10:52:24 its a matter of "copy some files to the device, run a shell script to load the test policy plugin, do some wireless network things, run another shell script to unload the plugin, copy off the log file" Feb 11 10:52:32 Sure, depending how full it is already :d Feb 11 10:59:33 otoh, Symbian suddenly doesn't seem so bad :D Feb 11 10:59:53 yuck Feb 11 10:59:57 hehe Feb 11 11:01:34 ya Feb 11 11:01:42 bad news for nokia Feb 11 11:02:17 if getting symbian is just to be loyal with nokia after the fallout of maemo, one needs to get their head checked. Feb 11 11:02:38 agreed Feb 11 11:03:16 Heh, that's not what I'm saying Feb 11 11:03:28 I'm just saying, I'd rather Symbian than WP Feb 11 11:03:55 I'd rather android or even iOS over WP Feb 11 11:04:17 symbian is like a defunct child of windows Feb 11 11:05:14 Symbian, with a nice Qt UX would be great imo Feb 11 11:05:50 LOL Feb 11 11:05:53 i just read it Feb 11 11:06:25 symbian is no better than iOS, locking down user's rights Feb 11 11:06:46 let's go troll #meego Feb 11 11:06:57 jonwil: I have no problem with reflashing the phone when something goes wrong or running "unstable" software. Feb 11 11:06:58 DocScrutinizer, ping Feb 11 11:07:07 making it look pretty won't make the overall user experience any better for tinkerers Feb 11 11:07:08 ok, great Feb 11 11:07:29 range, i get bluescreen on flashing =( Feb 11 11:08:43 i don't get it, when there is one loser with one Os and other loser with other, why do they think that together they wouldn't be double losers? Feb 11 11:08:48 simple math Feb 11 11:10:01 i didn't consider nokia as 0 (until tomorrow) Feb 11 11:10:19 ZogG: but anyway 0*1 = 0 ... same result Feb 11 11:12:30 Khertan until today Feb 11 11:12:44 Khertan, that's the time to make your own company with meego phones =) Feb 11 11:13:48 ZogG: I've been thinking the same :D Feb 11 11:14:22 * jonwil wishes he could find that @!$%$^@#$ Symbian source code :P Feb 11 11:14:30 Heh Feb 11 11:14:34 but it wouldbn't work Feb 11 11:14:34 bbl Feb 11 11:14:49 only cause if you succeed Nokia will sue you and use all your hard work Feb 11 11:15:21 but seriously, how hard it's to buy phone by parts Feb 11 11:15:36 even without nice looking case Feb 11 11:16:50 all I can find for Symbian is links to the no-longer-existent source code and announcements about it :( Feb 11 11:16:51 there's lots of chinese n900 clones, it shouldn't be too hard for one to get them to create n900 with some leaked n9 internal specs Feb 11 11:17:10 Most of the chinese clones are using low-quality hardware Feb 11 11:17:14 expensive Feb 11 11:17:36 that's true but there are some that can do clones of n900 in proper if I'm not mistaken Feb 11 11:18:02 there's not much other choice considering nokia decides to desert the maemo/meego community in favour of wp7 Feb 11 11:18:22 ZogG: it s an idea Feb 11 11:19:18 m9 is nice phone Feb 11 11:19:27 and as well you don't need n9 specs Feb 11 11:19:33 as you can use your own Feb 11 11:19:37 sorry i was disconnected Feb 11 11:20:04 does anybody has issues with GPS? Feb 11 11:21:45 no. GPS works fine. it is prooved ages ago. Feb 11 11:22:24 i opened ovi maps and left the device for ~20 minutes, it couldn't connect Feb 11 11:22:32 Well, at least the CSSU will last longer now :) Feb 11 11:22:41 :) Feb 11 11:22:41 No obvious N900 successor! Feb 11 11:22:42 showed all the time, searching gps Feb 11 11:23:49 OVI map turns off the GPS after a specified time due to energy safe reasons Feb 11 11:24:12 *save Feb 11 11:24:22 aaarg time to drink another ice coffee Feb 11 11:24:42 * Khertan think it ll be time to study how to do some mods hacks to add memory in n900 Feb 11 11:24:50 Jaffa i think we should make MohammadAG new leader and open our own company =) Feb 11 11:25:33 * Sicelo supports ZogG's idea Feb 11 11:25:45 * mece also Feb 11 11:26:13 i want to talk to DocScrutinizer about it Feb 11 11:26:20 * Khertan like it too ... but put MohammadAG has a leader is bad idea ... his tech skill can be used better than wasting them in leading team :) Feb 11 11:26:25 as he has some experience Feb 11 11:26:47 Khertan disagreed Feb 11 11:27:08 Necc, hmm.. how do i get it work then Feb 11 11:27:11 i see it more as a tech leader Feb 11 11:27:39 the problem of big compnies that doesn't work with free software is that they have leader that doesn't give a shit and understand how it works in OpenSource Feb 11 11:27:46 can i ask for a little help? months ago i installed "advanced clock plugin", possibly one of the firsts versions. I uninstalled it quite a while now, but inside "Settings" application, there are still a menu point labeled: "Advanced Clock Plugin" however i uninstalled it. There are any way to remove it from the "Settings"? Feb 11 11:27:49 and he doesn't care about devs and you Feb 11 11:28:30 compengi use something else then OVI maps, or use mobile/wifi network for A-GPS functionality Feb 11 11:28:31 btw where do i see the satellites Feb 11 11:28:43 Necc try to reinstall and uninstall again Feb 11 11:28:45 you need 3-rd parity apps for this Feb 11 11:28:55 compengi, in the sky =) Feb 11 11:28:55 ZogG: can't it says some error Feb 11 11:29:03 what errors Feb 11 11:29:10 did you try t force it? Feb 11 11:29:22 ZogG, very intelligent answer Feb 11 11:30:00 force? Feb 11 11:31:18 dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/advanced-clock-plugin_0.15.3_armel.deb (--unpack): Feb 11 11:31:22 trying to overwrite `/opt/maemo/usr/bin/advanced-clock-plugin-settings-ui', which is also in package advanced-clock-plugin-settings-ui Feb 11 11:31:39 of course the file do not exists, i removed it manually Feb 11 11:33:27 Necc apt-get install -f package Feb 11 11:34:03 Necc, what other navigation app do you suggest Feb 11 11:34:24 compengi try mappero Feb 11 11:34:31 compengi i don't use any, but i read maemo bugs months ago about this, i just wrote down what i read Feb 11 11:35:15 i need DocScrutinizer !! Feb 11 11:35:21 ZogG: same error as above (apt-get install -f advanced-clock-plugin) Feb 11 11:35:54 Necc try clean autoremove and check comands Feb 11 11:36:37 apt-get clean Feb 11 11:36:40 crap Feb 11 11:36:52 too many window open... not like if this helps but i'll see Feb 11 11:37:50 no change... Feb 11 11:39:27 Well, Nokia is leaving n900 users in the dust. Feb 11 11:39:55 Nokia *DO NOT* leaves N900 users in the dust... Feb 11 11:40:23 Nokia always left people in the dust, as no updates were made for mameo after a few years anyway Feb 11 11:40:29 LinuxCode: agreed Feb 11 11:40:30 however, now that meego is there Feb 11 11:40:34 even since Nokia 770 Feb 11 11:40:39 and the linux foundations runs it Feb 11 11:40:49 Im hopeful Feb 11 11:41:01 I wonder where this partnership with microsoft will leave meego, even. Feb 11 11:41:10 and longer term, I hope we can get the meego stuff thats important, into Fedora Feb 11 11:41:17 no updates for meego now Feb 11 11:41:22 so I can run the distribution I want Feb 11 11:41:33 ooo ooos nokia is not realing it =) Feb 11 11:41:47 honestly, sometime you people what updates do you hope for? infinite lifetime updates or what? Feb 11 11:41:52 haha Feb 11 11:41:59 erstazi, Noia is dropping meego,, from what I read, apart from for its tablets Feb 11 11:42:04 if they ever make tablets Feb 11 11:42:10 they plan to Feb 11 11:42:10 I seriously can not believe this. I am done with nokia, I love my n900, but this is just... No. Microsoft, windows phone 7, sigh. Feb 11 11:42:21 until windows tablet OS comes along Feb 11 11:42:27 now that they will do arm Feb 11 11:42:28 lol Feb 11 11:42:29 Oh fuck me. Feb 11 11:42:32 maybe NITDroid is looking good. Feb 11 11:42:39 `Extending the scope of Qt further will be our first MeeGo-related open source device, which we plan to ship later this year. Though our plans for MeeGo have been adapted in light of our planned partnership with Microsoft, that device will be compatible with applications developed within the Qt framework and so give Qt developers a further device to target.' - http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 Feb 11 11:42:44 erstazi, loooks ok, but I am not keen on android Feb 11 11:43:09 out of all that briefing, only once was meego mentioned in one paragraph.. good one nokia Feb 11 11:43:09 don't make me laugh with such restricted OSes like windows phone 7 Feb 11 11:43:10 psycho_oreos, I give that a year maybe two Feb 11 11:43:15 LinuxCode: agreed, but there seems to be a future there at least Feb 11 11:43:19 LinuxCode, maybe never! even better Feb 11 11:43:23 of sorts Feb 11 11:43:35 as long as meego carries on dev work, I dont care Feb 11 11:43:46 be it with Nokia or with other partners Feb 11 11:43:49 agreed, as long as meego carries on dev work, I am fine. Feb 11 11:44:00 * DocScrutinizer pukes Feb 11 11:44:01 I just felt that was a slap in the face with their partnership. Feb 11 11:44:34 Once again, Microsoft has held back the progress of things that would make things better. I have had it with them sons of... Feb 11 11:45:19 nah, Microsoft is just doing what others are doing (including iOS and to a lesser extent, Android). Walled Garden approach. I just thought Nokia wouldn't go to that length. Feb 11 11:45:20 what would you rather they do, turn down nokia's request to buy and use their not-half-bad operating system on their phones? Feb 11 11:45:27 From one extreme to the other, is the shocker to me. Feb 11 11:45:28 yeah, thats what companies like to do, turn away sales. Feb 11 11:46:53 the worrying this is this Feb 11 11:47:08 mobiles were pretty shit the last years, because there wrre only a few systems out there Feb 11 11:47:18 now, if we once again end up with 2 systems Feb 11 11:47:28 one of which is ....open-sih Feb 11 11:47:29 ish Feb 11 11:47:36 the other completely closed Feb 11 11:47:40 You forgot WP7 Feb 11 11:47:46 yeah and that one Feb 11 11:47:48 ;-p Feb 11 11:47:59 3.6% market share ? Feb 11 11:48:03 or whatever it was Feb 11 11:48:19 WP7 had 1.5% in Q4 Feb 11 11:48:24 that may change with nokia pushing it now... Feb 11 11:48:25 or that Feb 11 11:48:40 ZogG, aww :) Feb 11 11:48:41 Nokia had something like 33% or something. Feb 11 11:48:48 Microsoft 2009 Feb 11 11:48:48   Feb 11 11:48:48 8.7% Feb 11 11:48:48 Microsoft 2010 Feb 11 11:48:48   Feb 11 11:48:49 4.2% Feb 11 11:48:53 thats by gartner Feb 11 11:48:58 thats not very encouraging Feb 11 11:49:07 in terms of Nokias point of view Feb 11 11:49:19 Microsoft definitely got the most out of this. Feb 11 11:49:21 which is why this whole saga baffles me Feb 11 11:49:44 I think Nokia doesnt get, that people like familiar things Feb 11 11:49:55 hence ipod>iphone Feb 11 11:49:55 Will this end with Microsoft buying up nokia? Its not like that is not the way the used to do things to get rid of competition... Feb 11 11:50:00 Well, at least I never have to learn Qt. Feb 11 11:50:08 or Android users using android phones Feb 11 11:50:11 I shoulda fallen back to sleep instead of rolling over and picking up the phone. Feb 11 11:50:17 my query is more the timing really - If nokia could get a raft of wp7 phones out the door in a few months tops then fine, but supposedly this is going to be a 2 year transition which will only see a select amount of devices in that time Feb 11 11:50:20 I guess they are still releasing a Meego Device. Feb 11 11:50:20 mainly because all they want to do is chat, use google products Feb 11 11:50:26 the stuff they do at home Feb 11 11:50:34 I dont get how 2 years could apparently not be long enough to sort symbian's ui, and get meego fully going Feb 11 11:50:58 nidO: agreed Feb 11 11:51:03 i wonder. the meego device, will obviously be a project phone with no future. Which means it could be awesome for hackers Feb 11 11:51:04 erstazi, Do you still believe things that Nokia says they will do? Feb 11 11:51:04 nidO, I would ahve ditched symbian a long long time ago Feb 11 11:51:20 What was the earliest contact mentioned withMS - I think I heard november. Feb 11 11:51:21 Ken-Young: no, but they even said this in the press release today (or yesterday) Feb 11 11:51:40 erstazi, Tomorrow, they will say something different. Feb 11 11:51:47 * GAN900 should get up and catch the sunrise. Feb 11 11:51:48 Ken-Young: I am a naturally born skeptic Feb 11 11:51:49 mece: It may also be a tablet Feb 11 11:51:51 I bet you, had they chosen Android, instead of WP7 Feb 11 11:51:56 http://images.derstandard.at/t/12/2011/02/11/1297223689873.jpg Do you know these man? Feb 11 11:52:01 their share price would have gone up 10% Feb 11 11:52:09 LinuxCode: haha, no joke Feb 11 11:52:10 LinuxCode: Yup. Feb 11 11:52:21 LinuxCode: They are _fucking_scared_ of china though. Feb 11 11:52:35 well, they need to be scared of themselves Feb 11 11:52:36 SpeedEvil, As well they should be. Feb 11 11:52:49 android is probably a lot chaper than WP7 Feb 11 11:52:50 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/7-touch-screen-tft-lcd-google-android-1-6-tablet-pc-w-wifi-samsung-s3c6410-667mhz-41984 Feb 11 11:52:58 so handsets be cheaper Feb 11 11:53:10 For example Feb 11 11:53:39 not a phone or ? Feb 11 11:53:47 No, it's not. Feb 11 11:53:55 quite nice, I must admit Feb 11 11:53:59 It's just an example of what's out there from random devs. Feb 11 11:54:16 The parts that make it poor are generally not the parts that actually cost money. Feb 11 11:54:21 SpeedEvil, yeah, I have a feeling it is a tablet. But I'd rather have a phone. if it has a keyboard. Feb 11 11:54:27 That much - if done right. Feb 11 11:54:42 It's QC and engineering. Feb 11 11:54:48 Well - not cost per-unit money Feb 11 11:55:10 markinfo: developers developers developers developers Feb 11 11:55:15 SpeedEvil, tablets for me are glorified remote controls Feb 11 11:55:16 lol Feb 11 11:55:19 so anyone any idea how can i get rid of remained junk "Advanced Clock plugin" menupoint inside "Settings"? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4469013/temp/Screenshot-20110211-125122.png Feb 11 11:55:21 I am sorry to say Feb 11 11:55:30 91 million shares traded so far today, that's quite a bit :) Feb 11 11:55:40 the form factor of nokia internet tablets is actually really nice Feb 11 11:55:42 Necc: I would reinstall the latest version, and tehn uninstall it Feb 11 11:55:54 LinuxCode, they are quite nice though. But if it's just one device, I want a phone with a keyboard. I don't need a tablet for anything. Feb 11 11:55:54 way better than those crappy android tablets Feb 11 11:55:57 (or the ipad lol) Feb 11 11:55:59 Necc: let me do a search on packages Feb 11 11:56:02 dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/advanced-clock-plugin_0.15.3_armel.deb (--unpack): Feb 11 11:56:03 trying to overwrite `/opt/maemo/usr/bin/advanced-clock-plugin-settings-ui', which is also in package advanced-clock-plugin-settings-ui Feb 11 11:56:06 mece: is the n900 ok? Feb 11 11:56:09 mece, which si why I went for a N900 Feb 11 11:56:15 not an android device Feb 11 11:56:18 kerio, the n900 is the best device ever. Feb 11 11:56:20 2 years cracks me up Feb 11 11:56:22 as I could not find an android device with keybaord Feb 11 11:56:23 because the n900 is perfectly fine for me and i'd really want a n900 but thinner and with some real ram Feb 11 11:56:26 output of apt-get -f Feb 11 11:56:36 besdies the fact, Im banking on meego Feb 11 11:56:39 Thinner with a keyboard is _hard_ Feb 11 11:56:41 Necc: did you try to reinstall the package and then remove it? Feb 11 11:56:42 kerio, but one day it will be a little slow, and I will want something new Feb 11 11:56:48 I need/must have/want meego parts in Fedora Feb 11 11:56:48 kerio: agreed Feb 11 11:56:49 SpeedEvil: n9 prototype photos :) Feb 11 11:56:59 kerio: AIUI, 512M would be 'easy' upgrade Feb 11 11:57:01 mobile units should only be mere conduits Feb 11 11:57:03 As would 720MHz Feb 11 11:57:04 like you buy a pc Feb 11 11:57:04 kerio, Stephen Elop & Steve Ballmer Feb 11 11:57:10 kerio, so I'm hoping there will be a phone with full linux stack and lots of memory and a keyboard. Feb 11 11:57:13 For all of the furious arm waving, they really aren't better off than they were yesterday. Feb 11 11:57:17 you know what, a n900 with a faster cpu and more ram is ok Feb 11 11:57:24 and with a better and/or bigger battery Feb 11 11:57:28 kerio, that is exactly what I want. Feb 11 11:57:34 GAN900, they are worse off... look at the nokia stock ;) Feb 11 11:57:37 n900 is perfect for me. Feb 11 11:57:40 kerio: at least we can *replace* our battery Feb 11 11:57:45 doesn't matter what i type into apt-get, i ALWAYS get that message whenever i try to mess with that package Feb 11 11:57:46 mece: well a full linux stack means nothing Feb 11 11:57:53 unless you mean that you also want linux on the modem Feb 11 11:58:00 kerio, well Feb 11 11:58:01 which could already be the case, but we don't know Feb 11 11:58:07 GAN900: LOL Feb 11 11:58:09 kerio, well cpu is fast enough imho... but bigger screen and more ram certainly... Feb 11 11:58:19 having the source code for rapuyama would make lots of things better Feb 11 11:58:37 kerio, agreed Feb 11 11:58:43 (and the private key for signing would be even better - but still, only the source would be fine) Feb 11 11:58:47 jonwil: QT is apple proprietary. Qt otoh is LGPL+others Feb 11 11:58:54 kerio, regardless, I want an n900 with more memory and bigger screen. pretty much. also "not android" is a very important feature. Feb 11 11:59:03 nah, bigger screen would make it unwieldy Feb 11 11:59:10 kerio, a 4" screen wouldn't Feb 11 11:59:13 and I want Qt Feb 11 12:00:32 only extra features i'd want in a new n900 would be faster cpu so apps in easydebian were quicker and HD tv out Feb 11 12:00:42 * RobbieThe1st wants a n900 with a larger, high-res screen and dual-core chip :P Feb 11 12:00:43 in order of what's plausible: more RAM (!!!!!!!!!), faster CPU, slightly thinner, hd out, bigger/better battery, bigger screen Feb 11 12:00:55 yeah, dualcore cpu would be good Feb 11 12:01:22 The n900 has something like 12 cores. Feb 11 12:01:24 * xkr47 just wants to buy redundant n900:s while you can still get them Feb 11 12:01:24 I wonder what the cost of a self-built device would be Feb 11 12:01:25 RobbieThe1st: wait the new fantastic does not existing N9 to be released :P Feb 11 12:01:38 or we could convince OpenMoko to do it :P Feb 11 12:01:53 :P Feb 11 12:01:57 heh Feb 11 12:01:57 i would love my N900 if it would include 512MB physical RAM Feb 11 12:02:13 I love my n900 as it is! Feb 11 12:02:19 I already love my n900. Feb 11 12:02:20 yeah, the ram does get a bit full when you have samba and apache running :P Feb 11 12:02:29 xkr47, I think atleast a few of us will buy a spare n900 if not two Feb 11 12:03:04 yeah Feb 11 12:03:10 good Feb 11 12:03:12 :) Feb 11 12:03:16 me too Feb 11 12:03:22 definately going for a spare n900 Feb 11 12:03:27 I bought a spare this morning. Feb 11 12:03:35 spare n900 and some s40 device as well for when that dies Feb 11 12:03:48 s40 wasn't going away they said Feb 11 12:03:59 * rmrfchik sold n900 and happy ;) Feb 11 12:04:00 I don't really trust them much at this point... Feb 11 12:04:18 the price is slightly down from the original, nice Feb 11 12:04:28 i dont think ill get a spare, as much as i love the n900 i think there will probably be somemthing better available when mine dies Feb 11 12:04:34 lol 18 n900s sold this morning in local computer shops Feb 11 12:04:55 sorry it was yesterday, doh Feb 11 12:05:14 hmm 533 eur new... Feb 11 12:05:16 ruskie: exactly, I need another 1 or two Feb 11 12:05:28 429e here Feb 11 12:05:38 xkr47, lucky Feb 11 12:05:54 I'll hev to check around... and check at the official importer... but I'm guessing this is their price Feb 11 12:05:56 meh, I'd hoped for cheap used ones now Feb 11 12:06:25 who would sell.. :) Feb 11 12:06:33 <_berto_> live webcast again -> nokia.com/press Feb 11 12:06:38 265 used here Feb 11 12:06:41 well used new Feb 11 12:06:42 wow 185 used Feb 11 12:06:46 by someone who doesn't want it Feb 11 12:06:49 warranty and all Feb 11 12:07:09 180 from some ppl Feb 11 12:07:25 that's a more acceptable price point Feb 11 12:07:33 yeah Feb 11 12:07:39 to buy multiple :) Feb 11 12:07:57 hehe Feb 11 12:08:04 I was thinking just one spare Feb 11 12:08:24 if the hw is anywhere as durable as the n5110 was I'm expecting a good solid 5 years of runtime from one... Feb 11 12:08:37 Nokia stream started again Feb 11 12:08:42 :) Feb 11 12:08:48 'strategy and financial briefing. Feb 11 12:08:53 let us know Feb 11 12:09:01 I wonder how much further their stock will crash Feb 11 12:09:34 '3 buisness objectives we must pursue' 1. Reinforce leadership in mobile phones. Feb 11 12:09:34 elop can talk atleast, at last quarterly, he spoke the stock back up from a ~8% crash Feb 11 12:09:45 just hoping he can do the same again today :p Feb 11 12:09:45 2. Collect underpants Feb 11 12:09:49 3. ??? Feb 11 12:10:16 winpho certainly isn't leadership in mobile phones... Feb 11 12:10:23 •Elop clarified that MeeGo will ship this year but "not as part of another broad smarpthone platform strategy, but as an opportunity to learn." Feb 11 12:10:28 head > gun > trigger Feb 11 12:10:39 As a Nokia investor, color me fscking pissed. Feb 11 12:10:51 GAN: You actually invested? Feb 11 12:10:56 Yeah - he's basically saying meego was too slow and too risky. Feb 11 12:11:02 A true believer! Feb 11 12:11:12 RST38h, sometime in 2006. It was a gift. *g* Feb 11 12:11:18 RST38h: 90% of my stocks were in nokia :p Feb 11 12:11:21 ahh sorry for asking it again but http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4469013/temp/Screenshot-20110211-125122.png -> how can i remove that junk function from there by *NOT* using dpkg or apt-get? (Please /query me as i can not follow this extremely fast chat and i can't read everyone's answer. thank you) Feb 11 12:11:27 I cant see how development of meego can be going so slowly they cant get a decent product in place within the next 2 years Feb 11 12:11:30 or, are, still Feb 11 12:11:33 Too slow and too risky, that sounds like wndows phone 7 to me. Feb 11 12:12:24 nidO, Nokia is an old, slow, ineffectual company. Feb 11 12:12:40 They clearly couldn't manage to ship their grandmother an iPod. Feb 11 12:12:43 broken internals really Feb 11 12:12:53 nothing wrong with old... Feb 11 12:13:32 ruskie, indeed, but it's a symptom with Nokia, not a point of pride. Feb 11 12:13:34 but they should have had business phone section that makes tried and tested devices... an general population section that would do all of the fancy feature phones for teens and joe averag... Feb 11 12:13:41 did they really say "We need to go deeper"? Feb 11 12:13:44 I N C E P T I O N Feb 11 12:13:54 and a r&d environment for all the new stuff that the other two could use... Feb 11 12:13:57 hmm, that explains a lot Feb 11 12:14:00 GAN900: 2 *more* years on top of the more-than-a-year theyve already had for meego, is beyond rediculous for what was supposedly going to be their high end Feb 11 12:14:03 inception was actually a documentary Feb 11 12:14:21 and for the love of all that is sane... don't make them compete... but cooperate... Feb 11 12:14:26 nid0: Well they have killed every single viable Maemo product/project Feb 11 12:14:28 MS got wp7 from start to done in substantially less time than that, and its effectively a sideline project for MS Feb 11 12:14:31 What the hell are they going to sell in the mean time? Feb 11 12:14:38 nid0: They killed Diablo (perfectly good platform) Feb 11 12:14:44 Nobody will want to buy zombies from them. Feb 11 12:14:46 nid0: Then they killed Fremantle. Feb 11 12:14:59 nid0: Then they killed that Qt framework of theirs. Feb 11 12:15:21 RST38h, exactly, and I cant for the life of me see why theyre repeating it. beyond pissing off a lot of devs, switching to wp7 isnt in my book an inherantly bad thing, as someone that's actually used it it's not shabby Feb 11 12:15:22 maybe with an experimental section that can play with all the other OSes out there... Feb 11 12:15:34 but taking 2 bloody years to do it is beyond crazy Feb 11 12:16:04 nid0: You mean they will switch to WP7 in 2 years? Feb 11 12:16:41 supposedly the next 2 years are a "transition period" which suggests to me that anything they do release in that period will be relatively sparse, and essentially testbed devices Feb 11 12:16:57 or simply unsupported for more than a week Feb 11 12:17:10 mv nokia foxconn2 Feb 11 12:17:11 personally i read that as "2 years until the offical funeral of symbian" Feb 11 12:17:40 eg. wm and symbian side by side for 2 years Feb 11 12:17:56 nidO: Or they could mean that symbian mid-high range goes over to wm over that period, and new devices ASAP Feb 11 12:18:30 if they don't announce a new device, or two at barcelona its going to be very bad for them Feb 11 12:18:46 (that comes out very soon) Feb 11 12:18:50 well, he had no announcement for a phone today, which suggests it could be a good 6-12 months before a wp7 nokia arrives Feb 11 12:18:59 Indeed. Feb 11 12:19:06 the phone announcements should come at barcelona, not today Feb 11 12:19:17 * ZogG mp> the.big.bang.theory.s04e15.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv [1280x720 H264 24.000fps] Feb 11 12:19:19 If there was a device coming down the pipe, it'd be announced today to improve share price. Feb 11 12:19:23 they may be waiting on mwc, but it seems to me if they have anything coming anytime soon, showing it off at the same time as announcing the partnership woulda been smarter than waiting for mwc Feb 11 12:20:02 Hmm. That last comment was certainly as if there is no device coming down the pipe. Feb 11 12:20:09 'right now, ... chipset suppliers, ...' Feb 11 12:20:40 And ad-revenue from maps. Feb 11 12:21:23 i'm sorry if this is inapprioprate here, but i just have to say this to someone high in Nokia management: MORONS Feb 11 12:22:01 I, for one, welcome our new windows overlords. Feb 11 12:22:04 (not really) Feb 11 12:23:12 please, don't say anyhing with the makers of windows company name, i already have a headache, and it's not helping Feb 11 12:23:30 what is nokia hoping to gain with this? Feb 11 12:23:55 Scorcerer, nothing Feb 11 12:23:57 Scorcerer: 'stellar hardware, great software, a wonderful value propisition' Feb 11 12:24:07 Scorcerer: To quote the president. Feb 11 12:24:16 (speaking right now) Feb 11 12:24:20 hmm stock did rise a bit... Feb 11 12:24:20 nokia.com/press/ Feb 11 12:24:51 http://wmpoweruser.com/summary-of-nokia-microsoft-deal-in-3-images/ Feb 11 12:25:05 They basically considered that meego was too slow in coming out, and starting from 'zero' - it wasn't going to be a starter. Feb 11 12:25:45 the kicker for nokia is going to be if intel and other backers can get meego out on moorestown, and have it pick up some decent traction Feb 11 12:25:57 Yeah. Feb 11 12:26:07 I still think the real action is around meego arm Feb 11 12:26:21 Possibly. Feb 11 12:26:33 the problem for meego arm now though is that while the os is there all fine and dandy Feb 11 12:26:34 At least in the short term 1-2 years Feb 11 12:26:36 Wasn't nokia the partner moslty pushing the ARM side? Feb 11 12:26:36 hope so Feb 11 12:26:43 it needs a big name to actually ship devices using it Feb 11 12:27:51 I funny or not, think Nokia still may be the first vendor to ship a meego handset Feb 11 12:28:18 If it's not a tablet. Feb 11 12:28:22 I do wonder if after that device they'll keep going on meego... Feb 11 12:28:23 it wont help much if they ship one then forget about it, which is almost exactly what elop seems to have said will happen Feb 11 12:28:37 atleast as an R&D project Feb 11 12:28:51 nidO: well, what he said was a development device would ship. Feb 11 12:29:16 Todays phrase of the day. Feb 11 12:29:16 this year, it seems they're being careful about saying anything specific about the future of meego .. Feb 11 12:29:25 'Our primary strategy is windows phone'. Feb 11 12:29:28 "not as part of another broad smartphone platform strategy" to me suggests theyll ship the one device, and itll have no nokia/ovi/anything services support Feb 11 12:29:29 can we ask nokia to make a new hardware revision for the n900? Feb 11 12:29:41 kerio: We can. Feb 11 12:29:47 kerio, sure but they'll just stuff fingers in ears and go lalalalalalala Feb 11 12:29:48 will they answer affirmatively? Feb 11 12:29:56 kerio: yes. Feb 11 12:30:02 awesome, let's do that Feb 11 12:30:06 kerio: If you show up with an order for 250K Feb 11 12:30:22 SpeedEvil: I think we could do that ... Feb 11 12:30:24 hmmm nokia stock is certainly rising Feb 11 12:30:25 ok, we need 249519 more people Feb 11 12:30:56 kerio: actually we need a viable strategy Feb 11 12:31:40 http://view.samurajdata.se/psview.php?id=b15171a6&page=32 Feb 11 12:31:41 Maemo, MeeGo, where now :/ Feb 11 12:31:45 What is wrong with the N900 as it stands now? Feb 11 12:32:01 hardware-wise that is Feb 11 12:32:06 I for one will continue to stand behind meego for as long as Nokia continue to help us. Feb 11 12:32:09 jonwil: are you kidding Feb 11 12:32:09 I think its good hardware Feb 11 12:32:09 could do with more ram Feb 11 12:32:14 it has like 10 bytes of ram Feb 11 12:32:34 Better swap algorithms can help enormously. Feb 11 12:32:36 beyond that... frankly don't see any other reason Feb 11 12:32:49 I for one will continue to stand behind meego for as long as Nokia continue to help us. Feb 11 12:32:49 ruskie: i did a tiny list before Feb 11 12:32:52 jonwil: it is, but what about next year. want a compass, hdmi out at 1080p resolutions and probably some more stuff. Feb 11 12:33:11 I am not interested in compass or HDMI Feb 11 12:33:23 That'd I'd be interested in. Feb 11 12:33:34 jonwil: well, you're a minority :P Feb 11 12:33:38 jonwil, plenty of other people are tho Feb 11 12:33:46 Oh - he implied that meego device was a smartphone. Feb 11 12:33:54 people need to get together and define some sort of a mobile spec for pluggable devices... Feb 11 12:33:56 personally, i'd just rather a less godawful keyboard Feb 11 12:33:59 The #1 thing I hope for from Nokia is continued support for MeeGo N900 non-oss blobs (open-souring of them would be good but that wont happen) Feb 11 12:34:02 * andrewfblack just shakes his head has no idea what to say this morning Feb 11 12:34:03 ruskie: Pluggable devices don't work. Feb 11 12:34:11 SpeedEvil, not usb... Feb 11 12:34:28 ruskie: I keep meaning to write a FAQ why modular doesn't work for mobile devices. Feb 11 12:34:28 jonwil: hdmi is kinda useless, yeah Feb 11 12:34:31 andrewfblack: :( It is a truely sad day for everyone. Feb 11 12:34:37 SpeedEvil, really why doesn't it? Feb 11 12:34:43 nobody never tried really Feb 11 12:34:50 ruskie: Ok. being modular has many, many costs. Feb 11 12:35:02 I hope also that features not currently working on N900 MeeGo can be made to work Feb 11 12:35:07 i.e. GPS Feb 11 12:35:12 jonwil: more ram(!!!!!!!!!!!), more cpu (!!), slightly thinner, better antenna placement, bigger screen (no front facing camera) Feb 11 12:35:14 and battery status stuff Feb 11 12:35:21 and whatever Feb 11 12:35:23 ruskie: Firstly. You have to reimplement stuff over boards - decoupling and stuff. 2 boards is more expensive to make than one. Feb 11 12:35:23 jonwil: gps is almost done, as is camera and decent power management Feb 11 12:35:35 How is GPS on MeeGo being done? Feb 11 12:35:43 and camera and PM? Feb 11 12:35:52 Same as maemo really Feb 11 12:36:07 so GPS is just a port of location-daemon and friends from Maemo? Feb 11 12:36:12 SpeedEvil, what about single board with standardised package slots... so that all you need is drop in whatever chip you want? Feb 11 12:36:33 jonwil: yes Feb 11 12:36:34 ruskie: Secondly, if you have a user-pluggable module, you need a connector (which is unreliable) a outer shell for the module, an inner shell and cover for the module. A weaker cover or chassis, as you've got extra holes. Feb 11 12:36:35 and if it's absent ignore it Feb 11 12:37:14 ruskie: And extra decoupling componenets. Feb 11 12:37:29 I hope for binary blobs on MeeGo N900 only where absolutely necessary Feb 11 12:37:35 ruskie: Then you run into other issues like there will always be wasted space if you pick a given module size. Feb 11 12:38:06 ruskie: Mobile high-pin-count connectors are _hard_, and expensive. Feb 11 12:38:09 ruskie: http://www.buglabs.net/products Feb 11 12:38:12 http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=NOK1V.HE Feb 11 12:38:30 the ISI commands for GPS ARE documented in the wireless modem docs that Nokia published Feb 11 12:38:46 ruskie: http://www.buglabs.net/intro Feb 11 12:38:47 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/11/open-letter-from-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-and-ceo-steve-ballmer-microsoft/ Feb 11 12:38:49 Its just that the docs on that site dont match the actual GPS commands used for the N900 GPS Feb 11 12:38:51 sad day for me Feb 11 12:38:52 ruskie: Then there are other issues like antennas not matching. Feb 11 12:38:54 get it, modular DOES NOT FLY for small devices Feb 11 12:39:10 You can do modular. It can work. Feb 11 12:39:14 so if Nokia can document the proper GPS commands for N900, all the GPS blobs can go away Feb 11 12:39:22 too clunky, too many source of failure Feb 11 12:39:30 But expect 1.5-2* the price, and 1.5-2* the volume, and 0.8* the batery life. Feb 11 12:39:41 and we can write a backend for whatever open-source GPS/location thing exists Feb 11 12:39:45 And 0.1* the reliabilirty. Feb 11 12:39:49 jonwil: gpsd Feb 11 12:39:51 I think this summerises my dispair http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/image21.png Feb 11 12:40:02 now i got it Feb 11 12:40:33 so yeah Nokia documents the isi/phonet stuff and let the community write a gpsd backend for n900 Feb 11 12:40:34 Nokia is failing again and again coz they used to release ready to use phone and OS and only small bugfixes are needed after Feb 11 12:40:56 while maemo and meego should be long term developed OS Feb 11 12:40:58 instead of investing effort into porting the clunky stuff from Maemo Feb 11 12:41:09 no i mean not that Feb 11 12:41:23 * jonwil wonders if power stuff is going to mean more binary blobs Feb 11 12:41:35 or if all the important closed PM bits will end up in bme Feb 11 12:41:45 look n700 maemo2 or what ever, n800 maemo 3 n81*0 maemo4 n900 maemo5 Feb 11 12:41:49 but it's not same maemo Feb 11 12:42:04 in the end what's the use of modular? to pay 4* the price, to have a device where you can leave out 20% so X*4*0.8, and in the end the case has to cary thin air instead of the expensive modules you left out? Feb 11 12:42:11 while android 2.3 is the same android 2.2 just with new features Feb 11 12:42:31 * jonwil agrees that modular doesn't work Feb 11 12:42:57 DocScrutinizer, what do you mean? Feb 11 12:43:04 modular doesn't work because nobody bothered to find a way to make it work Feb 11 12:43:17 ruskie: Frankly - you're wrong. Feb 11 12:43:36 ruskie: The issues have been explored for over 60 years or so. Feb 11 12:43:55 ruskie: There has been enormous pressure to find some nice generic solution - it hasn't happened. Feb 11 12:44:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg ...you must see. Feb 11 12:44:19 the music is the best. Feb 11 12:44:26 let me put it this way: it's quite common in industry do build *one* hw that has it all, then - by *drilling holes tru traces or the like* - switch off comfort functions and sell two products: foobar-basic, with holes, and an expensive foobar-XXL without those holes Feb 11 12:44:49 SpeedEvil, a) it requires cash b) requires out of box thinking c) cellcos aren't interested d) phone manufcatrures don't want to carry the cost and brunt of the research... Feb 11 12:45:12 ruskie: I'm talking about the generic electronics market - this is not only an issue with phones. Feb 11 12:45:38 but is it symbolic that the Microsoft logo is half hidden? Feb 11 12:45:51 well nokia is really good at hardware Feb 11 12:45:51 What I want to know is what OS cell carriers would like to have seen Nokia support Feb 11 12:45:52 ruskie: The other problem is that while you do in fact get plug-in modules for 3G - say - they are all a differnet size and shape. Feb 11 12:45:57 so maybe this won't totally suck Feb 11 12:46:14 If you say you want a module of a given size and shape, the cost will be ruinous. Feb 11 12:46:38 nah who am i kidding, this will suck badly Feb 11 12:46:57 well I guess my point was that everyone needs to agree on common module sizes for certain stuff... Feb 11 12:47:16 from manufacturers to designers etc... Feb 11 12:47:16 ruskie: 'common module sizes' = wasted space Feb 11 12:47:38 Why would makers want to make modules bigger than they can? Feb 11 12:47:59 microsoft sucks... and any time a product is close to die they change its name and announce it as new feature rich BS being exactly the same apart of logo and naming... Feb 11 12:48:49 ruskie: this topic has been discussed for weeks literally, in the last 4 years, in OM community alone, by dozens of savvy people, and THERE IS NO WAY to make a B2B connector design compensate for the cheap-as-dirt chips you leave out Feb 11 12:49:21 ^^ Feb 11 12:49:42 it's simply more expensive to build in empty space into a device, than to populate it with the right chips Feb 11 12:50:09 makes no sense to me but ok... Feb 11 12:50:12 Also - look at how upgradable laptops are. Feb 11 12:50:29 Basically not, with very, very limited exceptions. Feb 11 12:50:30 * ruskie still wishes for an upgradable laptop Feb 11 12:50:37 until such time won't have a laptop Feb 11 12:50:55 you may change 3 things... RAM, PCIs-cards and HDDs... Feb 11 12:50:59 Laptops aren't upgradable for the same reason mobiles aren't - largely. Feb 11 12:51:02 "Another thread about Nokia and WP7" wtf Feb 11 12:51:04 fsck upgradable, even just replaceable parts would be nice Feb 11 12:51:04 ruskie: then your 'laptop' will have the form factor of a mini tower Feb 11 12:51:17 Connectors and packaging is hard. Feb 11 12:51:28 s/hard/expensive/ Feb 11 12:51:31 on mine they saved the 15c for the second pcie connector as it was not needed Feb 11 12:51:34 The most unreliable bits of any system are generally the connectors. Feb 11 12:51:54 yet I had everything else fail so far BUT the connectors Feb 11 12:52:10 On what? Feb 11 12:52:15 desktop Feb 11 12:52:21 and the most clunky part of any system are the service doors Feb 11 12:52:24 By connectors, I mean internal board-board connectors in a mobile device. Feb 11 12:52:27 one small pc seller, sell upgradable laptop in Paris Feb 11 12:52:42 guess why iPhone has no swappable battery Feb 11 12:52:45 Large connectors can do things that small ones can't. Feb 11 12:52:46 too clunky Feb 11 12:52:47 DocScrutinizer, I don't really care if I need to take the whole device appart to do the upgrade... Feb 11 12:52:59 so don't really care for service doors... Feb 11 12:53:00 but it s look like more a pc towel with keyboard put on the side that something else Feb 11 12:53:04 DocScrutinizer: it would brake their design... Feb 11 12:53:16 And how reliable do you think your mobile tower will be if you bounce it around like a mobile? Feb 11 12:53:39 considering I don't bounce around any electronic gear... Feb 11 12:53:47 exactly, as you need a second wall inside, to protect electronics from user, you need a emovable back cover, whatnot else Feb 11 12:53:59 ruskie: You do not treat your mobile phone as gently as your desktop. Feb 11 12:54:06 SpeedEvil, gentler Feb 11 12:54:17 ruskie: Put a G meter on it. Feb 11 12:54:20 my desktop will get a kick every so often... Feb 11 12:54:24 ruskie: you got a screenprotector? Feb 11 12:54:35 hard one enough to leave dent in the chassis Feb 11 12:54:41 chem|st, yup Feb 11 12:55:03 ruskie: you do not need that if you are gentler with it than with your desktop... Feb 11 12:55:17 and it's in a soft semi-hard shell... that is in another bag Feb 11 12:55:20 * RST38h eagerly awaiting Texrat commit suicide right in his blog =) Feb 11 12:55:22 I have no protector on mine Feb 11 12:55:30 nidO: +1 Feb 11 12:55:31 chem|st, well the screenprotector is mainly on it because it's a privacy guard... Feb 11 12:55:44 i.e. polarized to only be viewable straight on Feb 11 12:55:49 ah fixed angle Feb 11 12:55:51 meh, sorry I'll leave you alone here. Mobile Modules discussion is so.... *yawn* Feb 11 12:56:28 DocScrutinizer: I would love to kick those designer asses only once! Feb 11 12:56:29 not much space to install things on on the N810 :\ Feb 11 12:56:36 it occurs to me all this exclusivity dealing with nokia could be the major thing that hurts wp7 as a platform and "ecosystem" Feb 11 12:57:05 chem|st, basically if I had a way to input pin and other things into the device without needing to use the touchscreen or to have them visible why I type them in... I wouldn't get a screenprotector... Feb 11 12:57:07 nidO: wp7 is not exclusive to nokia Feb 11 12:57:18 LjL: you probably want to do your very own optification on N810 Feb 11 12:57:25 chem|st: no, but nokia's ability to apparently change whatever the hell they like with it is Feb 11 12:57:28 my what? O.o Feb 11 12:57:32 HTC werent even allowed to use Sense on it Feb 11 12:57:37 ~optification Feb 11 12:57:37 hmm... optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 Feb 11 12:57:51 so what other manus are going to bother pushing wp7 when nokia are the only ones allowed to differentiate it? Feb 11 12:58:26 nidO, all those with current valid contracts that won't expire for the next 5 years ? Feb 11 12:58:44 nidO: nokia will probably not personnalize it too much Feb 11 12:59:08 put a link to ovi ... who know ? Feb 11 12:59:13 will be pretty straight as they got no time to modify much... Feb 11 12:59:13 Khertan: no, they've said they probably wont, but I dont imagine HTC are too chuffed when they want to, but cant, and nokia have been allowed to, but wont. Feb 11 12:59:27 Interesting - they say meego invesrtment will continue. Feb 11 12:59:41 whats the incentive for HTC to keep pushing WP7 against nokia rather than just getting back fully behind android Feb 11 12:59:46 they will try to get it rtunning stable on some hardware put it together and TADA new device in april Feb 11 13:00:06 nidO: Same as anyone else Feb 11 13:00:08 SpeedEvil, I've heard that much but apparently once decoded it's something along the lines of: This will be R&D in the long term Feb 11 13:00:18 nidO: HTC is not scared of nokia - somewhat. Feb 11 13:00:29 SpeedEvil: yeah, none. may as well stick to android and ditch windows again Feb 11 13:00:36 nidO: HTC is scared of china - in the long term, and the commoditisation of android. Feb 11 13:00:40 which leaves wp7 as, effectively, a nokia exclusive Feb 11 13:02:02 I wonder if anyone actually introduced Elop to the cluebat... Feb 11 13:02:29 DocScrutinizer: uhm... unless i'm mistaken, doing that properly would mean recompiling everything to use a different directory structure. what about i symlink /usr/share to the eMMC instead? doing it with /usr might be a bit too much i guess, but somehow /usr/share feels safer Feb 11 13:03:05 LjL, actually it's exactly what you said... symlinking a lot of stuff from another partition Feb 11 13:03:16 LjL: the correct way to do is to *mount*, not symlink Feb 11 13:03:21 true Feb 11 13:03:25 and hope nothing breaks Feb 11 13:03:28 DocScrutinizer: so i should repartition the eMMC? :\ Feb 11 13:03:32 LjL: and no, no need to recompile anything Feb 11 13:03:37 LjL: yes Feb 11 13:03:57 is the eMMC much slower than the rootfs? Feb 11 13:04:05 or use bindmounts on directories living on eMMC Feb 11 13:04:10 I was considering getting some n8x0 devices as upnp players/control points for home... Feb 11 13:04:16 LjL: not that much Feb 11 13:04:26 i'll investigate bindmounts then, i'm not keen on repartitioning, right now Feb 11 13:05:19 LjL: ...and your overall user experience will get better even, as you can have more space on rootfs, and place some files with heavy traffic there Feb 11 13:05:46 hmm, rootfs porn... Feb 11 13:05:49 * LjL kids Feb 11 13:06:15 LjL: the only catch is: you need to do these bindmounts early in init process, prior to accessing any of the bits in /usr Feb 11 13:06:52 /etc/fstab won't do? Feb 11 13:07:02 this might incluse some mv of a few binaries from /usr/* to /* Feb 11 13:07:11 DocScrutinizer: you mean like IT SHOULD BE DONE in a real unix system? Feb 11 13:07:24 with the stuff in /usr/ not necessary to the boot process before mounting volumes? Feb 11 13:07:38 yeah that's the idea of /usr as i knew it :P Feb 11 13:07:45 kerio: see ~optification Feb 11 13:07:49 i know, i know Feb 11 13:08:03 i'm just saying that whoever put binaries required to boot in /usr/ needs to be shot Feb 11 13:08:19 well... if i only do it with /usr/share, there shouldn't be an issue with boot, methinks? Feb 11 13:08:29 LjL: maybe! Feb 11 13:08:37 *crosses fingers* Feb 11 13:09:05 for example on maemo5/N900 it's a *bug* that parts of PA are in /usr/* while early in init they use PA to playback the shakehands video Feb 11 13:09:22 ergo PA needs to move from /usr/* to /* Feb 11 13:10:06 at least that's what FHS says /usr is meant to be like Feb 11 13:10:48 DocScrutinizer: no, we need to stop with the bullshit video Feb 11 13:10:57 there's no reason why the boot process requires audio Feb 11 13:11:03 that's the better alternative :-D Feb 11 13:11:14 or, at least requiring pulseaudio Feb 11 13:11:28 kerio: exactly Feb 11 13:11:34 *requires Feb 11 13:11:38 kerio, there are some libs that stuff in /bin requires from /usr/lib as well Feb 11 13:11:53 ruskie: and whoever put them there needs to be shot as well Feb 11 13:12:00 morning. Feb 11 13:12:05 why the hell do we use busybox Feb 11 13:12:18 i thought not having to rely on a shitton of libraries was one of the reasons Feb 11 13:12:35 ruskie: then somebody had a gashead when installing those bits in /bin depending on /usr/lib instead of /lib Feb 11 13:13:14 javispedro: moaning Feb 11 13:13:30 kerio: yep Feb 11 13:13:35 ~messybox Feb 11 13:13:36 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Feb 11 13:14:52 generally executables depending on /usr/* go to /usr/(s)bin, NOT /(s)bin Feb 11 13:14:56 To be fair, using 'normal' tools on a low memory device is insane. Feb 11 13:15:14 nonsense Feb 11 13:15:32 busybox uses less RAM, starts builtin processes faster. Feb 11 13:15:38 SpeedEvil, when defininng low memory as it used to be... 8MB... Feb 11 13:15:51 when you have 256mb of mem... there is no sane reason... Feb 11 13:16:04 ruskie: That's not really true - it's not only RAM Feb 11 13:16:08 SpeedEvil: using busybox as a login shell, THAT *IS* insane Feb 11 13:16:21 DocScrutinizer: +1 Feb 11 13:16:33 ash uses a whole lot less memory on startup than bash. This means it's faster when memory is contended Feb 11 13:16:35 Sure. Feb 11 13:17:01 also, it doesn't fork as often as bash. Feb 11 13:17:21 and how do I care for my xterm?? Feb 11 13:17:34 I give a flying F about forks Feb 11 13:18:20 For interactive use, it's not an issue Feb 11 13:18:37 I'm not arguing against bash for interactive. Feb 11 13:18:38 SpeedEvil, talking about busybox ash with most options disabled? or something like dash? Feb 11 13:19:28 dudes, I got 256MB RAM plus lots of swap on this device. My last laptop running full sized Opensuse10 had 192MB, and a 300MHz P-II, and I got KDE running on it Feb 11 13:19:40 plus bash OF COURSE Feb 11 13:19:43 and yet if you try to run KDE on the N900 it will be deadly slow. Feb 11 13:19:58 javispedro, yes but the cause isn't the device Feb 11 13:19:58 plus manpages, though it had a 12GB HDD Feb 11 13:20:00 it's the coders... Feb 11 13:20:14 when it happens for one application, it's the device. Feb 11 13:20:14 now-a-days nobody bothers to even remotely optimize their code Feb 11 13:20:25 *it's the coders ;) Feb 11 13:20:30 when it happens for each application... Feb 11 13:20:31 ruskie: Whatever the shell is on the n900 Feb 11 13:21:08 javispedro, not really... Feb 11 13:21:31 what I just what to mean is that sadly the performance of the N900 is not comparable to a 300 Mhz laptop. Feb 11 13:21:37 javispedro, I can run midori vs firefox... and there will be a huge difference... Feb 11 13:21:37 see Feb 11 13:21:48 moo javispedro Feb 11 13:21:49 I run Eclipse on my Celeron 333Mhz with 96MiB of RAM (yes, 96MiB) Feb 11 13:21:54 javispedro: having fun? =) Feb 11 13:22:00 however, I've tried to do so on the N900 -- disaster. Feb 11 13:22:07 (and the first mistake is obviously to run Eclipse) Feb 11 13:22:15 RST38h: yes, having fun =) Feb 11 13:22:28 RST38h: reading #meego too I guess, so you having fun too :) Feb 11 13:22:36 javispedro, good for you... I've seen eclipse bring a lot better systems than that to a crawl Feb 11 13:22:39 javispedro: oh yes Feb 11 13:22:41 javispedro: guess why. Just because there's not even 50MB *free* RAM left over on N900 Feb 11 13:22:59 with all those UIs fixed to mem Feb 11 13:23:05 * jonwil wishes he could find someone who has contacts at nokia and can ask about possibility of n900 GPS isi/phonet info and some other stuff :P Feb 11 13:23:05 DocScrutinizer: naa there's way more than that, they're not fixed to mem. Feb 11 13:23:15 Actually. Feb 11 13:23:21 I just checked Feb 11 13:23:23 sh& Feb 11 13:23:30 javispedro: The Tentacled One is going to be mightily constipated on all this food tonight Feb 11 13:23:31 DocScrutinizer: see .desktop files, they have a field which indicates at which values of free mem they're pinned into memor Feb 11 13:23:44 RST38h: probably mine as well. Feb 11 13:23:45 uses 208K RAM, bash& 164k Feb 11 13:23:52 Surprising Feb 11 13:24:04 HAHAHA Feb 11 13:24:15 It wasn't that way last time I lookd Feb 11 13:24:27 not really, as messybox comes with all that useless halfarsed cruft builtin Feb 11 13:24:32 Are there any employees at Nokia working with things like Qt, PySide and MeeGo still? Feb 11 13:24:56 SpeedEvil, what where you checking? Feb 11 13:24:58 ps aux? Feb 11 13:25:09 javispedro: Well, I hope that for you, this is not a moment for catharsis etc =) Feb 11 13:25:33 no - unique memory used Feb 11 13:25:49 SpeedEvil, what tool did you use? Feb 11 13:25:51 http://www.selenic.com/smem/download/ - the 'smem' python script Feb 11 13:25:54 ahh Feb 11 13:26:40 X-Fade: ping Feb 11 13:26:45 * jonwil doubts he will ever be able to complete any of his Feb 11 13:26:51 his N900 reverse engineering projects Feb 11 13:27:01 on my desktop system... dash 132 | bash 1628 | zsh 2672 Feb 11 13:27:01 * jonwil doubts he will ever get any of the info he is seeking Feb 11 13:27:56 don't think I have a busybox around on this... Feb 11 13:28:03 ruskie: Is that uss? Feb 11 13:28:12 unique set size - the unique mapped pages? Feb 11 13:28:12 yup Feb 11 13:28:36 jonwil: use it as a reason to write your own decompiler? ;) Feb 11 13:28:47 ruskie: you need to run at least two copies of each shell Feb 11 13:28:50 SpeedEvil: smem ... hum ... Feb 11 13:29:27 RSS counts mapped pages. This includes multiply mapped pages. If your app maps libc - you don't actually want to count that memory in the memory footprint. Feb 11 13:29:45 zsh 2664 bash 1544 dash 60|64 Feb 11 13:30:10 USS is unique set size - pages used only by this process. PSS is proportional set size. This counts 1/150th of libcs pages, if there are 150 processes using it Feb 11 13:30:57 honestly guys. Bothering about 208k vs 164k of RAM(!!)? c'mon. There's simply NO sane reason to have messybox as your login shell. There's a lot of sense in using it as scripting shell during init though Feb 11 13:31:16 DocScrutinizer, not really... dash can do things probably better Feb 11 13:31:24 I'm nt arguing it's good for login shell. Feb 11 13:31:40 ruskie: eeh? sorry? Feb 11 13:31:50 At least on n900, ash started lots faster than bash. Feb 11 13:32:01 in some test cripts I did a bit ago. Feb 11 13:32:10 STARTED? Feb 11 13:32:18 how did you start it? Feb 11 13:32:26 from a shell I gues? Feb 11 13:32:28 load time really depends on the binary size in the end Feb 11 13:32:42 if you want to see what outperforms try a few 1000+ loops Feb 11 13:32:58 sad day today Feb 11 13:32:58 some things actually run better in bash than in other things Feb 11 13:32:59 no? Feb 11 13:33:02 kkal, yup Feb 11 13:33:03 I was doing that sort of stuff - benchmarking 'realistic' startup scripts. Feb 11 13:33:23 There were meego devices in HW devel. Feb 11 13:33:26 More than one. Feb 11 13:33:42 These are being repurposed as windows phones. Feb 11 13:33:46 well if you want best peformance there you want a single unified boot script... Feb 11 13:34:09 ruskie: In busybox, lots is bundled in the same binary Feb 11 13:34:18 starting - for example - dd - is lots faster Feb 11 13:34:22 SpeedEvil: i like smem ! Feb 11 13:34:34 I want best manageability Feb 11 13:34:35 Lol. Someone mentioned throwing chairs. :) Feb 11 13:36:07 SpeedEvil: I don't care much about what OS I'm deleting to flash maemo/meego/SHR to the device. Be it W7 or sybian or andridiot Feb 11 13:36:22 Indeed. Feb 11 13:36:45 I was wondering if tehre might be any scope for support of meego on a 'specs only' basis for the community. Feb 11 13:36:52 I don't care about the lemmings buying latest 'cool stuff' - be they happy with W7 Feb 11 13:37:17 SpeedEvil: now that'S a good point to rise to Nokia Feb 11 13:37:44 Ouch QML Use really more memory ! Feb 11 13:38:24 Khweeteur use 14.8Mb while just a list of tweet from khweeteur in QML use 27.7Mb Feb 11 13:38:29 extremely compelling to them, as it costs them nothing and earns them community driven meego for their eventually coming smartphones-meego Feb 11 13:38:57 DocScrutinizer only if there is still a community Feb 11 13:40:46 Nokia: sell your phones with "choose your OS" option! unique in the market Feb 11 13:41:01 DocScrutinizer: it ll be an idea :) Feb 11 13:41:23 definately interesting Feb 11 13:41:34 they should partner with always innovating... they seem to have a clue about that Feb 11 13:42:33 DocScrutinizer, with added windows button? :) Feb 11 13:42:52 N9 - comes with W7, Andridiot, and meego. Sybian next year. You choose! Feb 11 13:43:26 * jonwil doesn't have the skills to produce his own ARM decompiler Feb 11 13:43:36 Nokia needs to learn they are seling HARDWARE, not OS Feb 11 13:43:39 and even if I had one, it wouldn't help with some of the tricky stuff Feb 11 13:43:42 DocScrutinizer: Integrated Sybian ? Feb 11 13:43:49 sure Feb 11 13:43:51 :) Feb 11 13:43:51 :-P Feb 11 13:44:46 * jonwil would give ANYTHING for a set of libisi header files :P Feb 11 13:45:07 jonwil: you know the names to ping Feb 11 13:45:16 which names are those? Feb 11 13:45:18 remind me again Feb 11 13:45:21 * jonwil forgets stuff Feb 11 13:45:35 * alterego finds it important to make notes. Feb 11 13:45:36 stskeeps, tekojo, collabora maybe Feb 11 13:45:45 jonwil, if anything I think qwerty12 did have something like de-ice plus probably whatever fancy scripts he has ontop of it to decode the stuff Feb 11 13:46:00 even quim gil Feb 11 13:46:09 too bad he left for the android realm Feb 11 13:46:55 jonwil: first addressee: council Feb 11 13:47:25 ok, so I should ping the council? Or ping stskeeps? Or tekojo? Feb 11 13:47:29 hmm sad stock went a bit up... then straight down again Feb 11 13:47:36 I doubt Collabora could help, I could ask if you want though. Feb 11 13:48:04 I hereby announce I am no longer interested in any Maemo or Nokia related projects. Please only highlight me for funny and/or entertaining stuff. Feb 11 13:48:07 collabora probably cant share the info I need (if they even have it), only Nokia can Feb 11 13:48:22 feel free to take my ops, whatever. Feb 11 13:48:51 crashanddie: NOOOOO, so I can't do that, or otherwise no ops anymore here :-P Feb 11 13:49:01 who fucking cares? Feb 11 13:49:06 hehehe Feb 11 13:49:10 not like this channel will be of any interest 6 months down the line Feb 11 13:49:26 Will to some. Feb 11 13:49:27 that's probably sadly right Feb 11 13:49:40 6 months isn't too long. Feb 11 13:49:48 the tombstone has been set Feb 11 13:50:09 Just need to find the right people to ping to ask if getting this info is possible (along with describing the use case for it) Feb 11 13:50:24 if the Council is the right place to start, I need contact details for that Feb 11 13:50:25 13:32: 7.33   0.82 (10.01%) <-- whoa... Feb 11 13:50:26 * DocScrutinizer off for booze, with funeral march and lots of tears shed Feb 11 13:50:31 is there any considerable little independent mobile phone company that could make linux phones with decent hardware? Feb 11 13:50:33 Awwww Feb 11 13:50:38 there could be market for such Feb 11 13:50:53 And I was thinking updated maemo ssu with up-to-date meego binary blobs Feb 11 13:51:05 Maybe even hardfp ... Feb 11 13:51:19 * crashanddie gets ready to pre-order an iPad 2, and buys some random Android tablet Feb 11 13:51:36 crash; Don't forget to get a crackberry Feb 11 13:51:38 Noma, http://road.de Feb 11 13:51:45 RST38h, already have that :) Feb 11 13:51:49 RST38h, have had for quite some time Feb 11 13:51:56 Noma: basically - the problem is you can't be a small little independant mobile phone company that makes competitively priced smartphones with 3G Feb 11 13:51:59 they'll soon have plabook Feb 11 13:52:06 s/plabook/playbook/ Feb 11 13:52:06 psycho_oreos meant: they'll soon have playbook Feb 11 13:52:10 jonwil: there's also a justification page in the maemo wiki which might be worth filling out Feb 11 13:52:20 Noma: Simply as the pricing structure of the electronics market, and electronics production works against you. Feb 11 13:52:22 Noma, have a look at openmoko :) Feb 11 13:52:23 SpeedEvil: they don't have to necesserily be competitively priced, the geek community could still be interested Feb 11 13:52:32 so have Nokia now jumped into bed with M$ or was I dreaming this morning? Feb 11 13:52:39 Noma: Really? Feb 11 13:52:48 Noma: You'd have bought a n900 at twice the price? Feb 11 13:52:55 Pandora project can do it? :D Feb 11 13:52:56 lardman, its official already Feb 11 13:53:12 then there's aava mobile :p Feb 11 13:53:19 SpeedEvil: N900 was competitively priced? Feb 11 13:53:25 if my choices are HTC Desire Z for 600 euros and Nokia N900 for 1000 euros, I would've bought the latter Feb 11 13:53:26 Atom, poor power consumption Feb 11 13:53:36 http://goldelico.de/Hardware.html http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04&referer=Neo Freerunner Feb 11 13:53:53 meh Feb 11 13:53:54 alas it did run moblin :) Feb 11 13:53:57 idiots Feb 11 13:54:00 well apparently Nokia are still planning to release a Meego device this year Feb 11 13:54:10 Feb 11 13:54:22 that'll probably be a tablet based as rumours say Feb 11 13:54:30 lardman, what's the point, really? Feb 11 13:54:31 works for me Feb 11 13:54:34 or http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04&referer=Neo%20Freerunner ?? Feb 11 13:54:36 rumours have already said that they've axed n9 Feb 11 13:54:47 crashanddie: well one does have to hope that mobile Linux will survive Feb 11 13:54:58 lardman, you honestly believe people will dev for a device that has no chance of offspring? Feb 11 13:55:01 though really Symbian without all the crap would be a better mobile kernel Feb 11 13:55:05 I'm not going to waste my time with any of that shit Feb 11 13:55:12 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/nokiawebcast-4.pdf-page-32-of-38.jpg Feb 11 13:55:22 crashanddie: people dev for Linux because it's a religion, devices are not that important Feb 11 13:55:31 not everyone I hasten to add Feb 11 13:56:01 lol xkr47, Symbian is worse off than MeeGo? Feb 11 13:56:13 so do we have a read on what will happen to Meego? Apparently it will still be a business entity for Nokia, but presumably very long range Feb 11 13:56:27 I will develop for what I have, I hope I continue to have the quality and flexibilty to do so in what we've had with the NITs Feb 11 13:56:39 psycho_oreos: It was mentioned as a smartphone during the talk Feb 11 13:56:51 crashanddie, the meego:symbian percentage seems the same as meego:wp7 Feb 11 13:56:56 lardman: quim tweeted "midterm innovation" in regards to meego Feb 11 13:57:16 lardman, [10:57:32] "Nokias one-year collaboration with the chip maker Intel called MeeGo, to produce a new generation of Nokia smartphones, will become a long-term open-source project designed to develop new kinds of devices, Mr. Elop said." Feb 11 13:57:17 [10:57:50] Translation: We're not going to be spending any more money into it. It's Open Source. If you want something, build it. Feb 11 13:57:17 [10:58:35] Also, nice lapsus: I thought MeeGo was about an OS platform, not "devices". Feb 11 13:57:45 SpeedEvil, funny how it wasn't stated here as a smartphone: http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 Feb 11 13:57:54 where is this justification page? I cant find it on the wiki Feb 11 13:58:05 alterego: thanks Feb 11 13:58:12 crashanddie: yeah, agreed Feb 11 13:58:22 psycho_oreos: I'm not saying it wasn;'t - however, it was clearly mentioned as part of the smartphone strategy Feb 11 13:58:24 jonwil: /me looks Feb 11 13:58:50 psycho_oreos: In the talk beginning an hour ago Feb 11 13:59:18 is this event on now? The one we all thought might announce a new Meego phone? Feb 11 13:59:46 btw if anyone knows where to get the previously-available-but-not-available-anymore Symbian code, that would be great :) Feb 11 13:59:51 At around 12:32 GMT specifically Feb 11 13:59:55 SpeedEvil, I didn't bother watching/listening to the talk, am still absolutely gutted by elop's indelible decision on adding wp7 to its range of mobile/cell phone OS Feb 11 13:59:58 lardman: you mean the one where they announce they choosed Windows Portable 7 ? Feb 11 14:00:02 psycho_oreos: yeah Feb 11 14:00:06 classic joke: http://i.imgur.com/dMX1f.png Feb 11 14:00:24 marmoute: I thought that was a press release rather than a talk? Feb 11 14:00:28 :) Feb 11 14:00:50 http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1502.html Feb 11 14:01:13 jonwil: http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Licensing_change_requests and http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Why_the_closed_packages Feb 11 14:01:34 * jonwil has about 7 or so requests for headers/info that he wants for various things Feb 11 14:01:39 7 or so things I want Feb 11 14:01:42 hmm Feb 11 14:01:48 having used an iphone for a day now Feb 11 14:01:53 I think they need to be added to bugzilla, see the link on that first wiki page Feb 11 14:01:56 I can't see those 100000 apps Feb 11 14:02:10 MohammadAG: jumped ship already then? ;) Feb 11 14:02:15 most of them are duplicates :/ Feb 11 14:02:18 search the market for "fart" Feb 11 14:02:21 lardman, nah, it's my dad's Feb 11 14:02:24 probably only available after jailbreaking *snickers* Feb 11 14:02:27 that will give the 10k apps ;) Feb 11 14:02:47 I dont think adding to bugzilla will get anywhere Feb 11 14:03:06 psycho_oreos, don't think I could jailbreak an iPhone 4 with the latest software Feb 11 14:03:21 lardman, searched for "fart", it's still loading :P Feb 11 14:03:33 there are already about 50 bugs in bugzilla for things where info is wanted from Nokia and none of them are going anywhere Feb 11 14:03:54 hmm Feb 11 14:03:58 first iPhone lock up Feb 11 14:04:00 no apps start Feb 11 14:04:06 jonwil: I know, but then when you approach someone about it you point to the bug Feb 11 14:04:22 crashanddie: clearly shows Mr Elop has NFC Feb 11 14:04:34 MohammadAG, ahh iphone 4 eh? heh that's going to be a bit of a tough nut to crack Feb 11 14:04:35 you will need to talk to people, the bug won't do the job, but it is a central point of explanation, justification, etc Feb 11 14:04:54 ok, makes sense Feb 11 14:04:56 when do we rebel against Elop? Feb 11 14:05:04 some of the items I want already point to bugzilla bugs Feb 11 14:05:08 i was a lot happier yesterday Feb 11 14:05:22 MohammadAG: :( Feb 11 14:05:39 MohammadAG: are you a stock holder? Feb 11 14:06:00 javispedro, no, I just equally hate all other OSes Feb 11 14:06:01 Mohammad: What do you have to do with Elop? Feb 11 14:06:20 DocScrutinizer, Elop's reaction was about as stupid as the ones you see in theatres: They look at the greatest expenses (in theatres, that's human salaries and movies), and slash the ones they can: employees. The thing is, employees are the ones who sell you food, the part of the theatre that has the greatest profit margin on it. So instead of giving people the tools they need, for long-term improvement, they slash whatever Feb 11 14:06:20 they see, for instant gratification. Feb 11 14:06:21 RST38h, he tied Nokia with Microsoft Feb 11 14:06:24 I hate microsoft Feb 11 14:06:30 jonwil: get people to vote for them, then go chasing Nokians Feb 11 14:06:32 Mohammad: So, why is it bad? Feb 11 14:06:33 psycho_oreos, gutted is a good word for it. Feb 11 14:06:48 Mohammad: We get to see TEH DRAMA Feb 11 14:06:59 RST38h, know the feeling when you get something, and it's taken away from you? Feb 11 14:07:04 crashanddie: ack Feb 11 14:07:12 Mohammad: Never got anything from Elop Feb 11 14:07:16 RST38h, we also don't get a usable mobile device any time in the near future. Feb 11 14:07:17 Ari got nokia into Linux, Elop took that to Windows Feb 11 14:07:24 RST38h, that's not true Feb 11 14:07:32 GAN: Android + a set of files Feb 11 14:07:33 RST38h, you get windows on your next device Feb 11 14:07:34 Reason to love maemo is open source and Qt, I hope that there will be meego phone :S Feb 11 14:07:38 GAN900, if only I lived in EU to witness that conference with a bottle of motolov cocktail handy... Feb 11 14:07:40 android sucks Feb 11 14:07:40 GAN: (not the computer files too) Feb 11 14:07:49 RST38h, Maemo + MeeGo got a massive surprise buttseks from Elop. Feb 11 14:07:50 I'm not learning Java Feb 11 14:07:54 RST38h, Android? Feb 11 14:07:56 Fuck off. Feb 11 14:07:57 MohammadAG, you can code C in android Feb 11 14:07:58 ok, let's panic. Feb 11 14:08:07 Tried that with the Nexus One Feb 11 14:08:09 GAN: I am simply choosing from available alternatives Feb 11 14:08:10 psycho_oreos: it's in London, I could have got a train there in less than an hour :D Feb 11 14:08:11 javispedro, yeah, let's Feb 11 14:08:12 Wanted to put my eyes out. Feb 11 14:08:14 PANIC!!!!!! PANIC!!! I'm iN DENIAL! This CAN'T be TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Feb 11 14:08:29 TEH ENDOF THE WORLD COMIN Feb 11 14:08:29 crashanddie, and the UI? Feb 11 14:08:30 MohammadAG, also, Java is a very good thing on your CV Feb 11 14:08:37 RUN FOR TEH HILS!!!! Feb 11 14:08:43 crashanddie, I'm not fond of it :P Feb 11 14:08:56 Unfortunate thing is the blow mobile open source took today. Feb 11 14:08:56 ah sod Android, just buy the device and port Meego to it Feb 11 14:08:58 I'd so get an iphone now Feb 11 14:08:59 crashanddie: Nowadays, Java is not a good thing on your CV Feb 11 14:09:02 MohammadAG, chances are, you won't be fond of your job either, but you still need the money you whore. Feb 11 14:09:03 if it was open source Feb 11 14:09:04 BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZE Feb 11 14:09:06 crashanddie: C# is though ;) Feb 11 14:09:07 Now we're really down to Android's evil. Feb 11 14:09:08 and BYE Feb 11 14:09:08 Hello, can anyone tell me OpenDUNE key bindings? None of the keys seem to work! Feb 11 14:09:09 SACK EVERYTHING YOU CAN BEFORE IT DISAPPEARS! Feb 11 14:09:15 RST38h, dude, Java on my CV got me a 120k a year job aged 24. Feb 11 14:09:18 alterego, I'd imagine carrying a bottle of motolov cocktail wouldn't fancy the bouncers at the front, though really maybe people should throw lemons at elop Feb 11 14:09:21 * MohammadAG bitchslaps crashanddie Feb 11 14:09:31 crashanddie: Now you are a legacy coder ;) Feb 11 14:09:38 RST38h, no, now I code C++ :) Feb 11 14:09:42 psycho_oreos: Apples would be more interesting Feb 11 14:09:44 PILLAGE! KILL! HUMP THE GEESE! Feb 11 14:09:57 crashanddie: see? Feb 11 14:10:05 lol Feb 11 14:10:12 alterego, nah apples won't make elop any smarter Feb 11 14:10:22 I like the iPhone's BT stack Feb 11 14:10:24 :) Feb 11 14:10:29 hump the geese? Feb 11 14:10:34 you can pair other mobiles, you can only connect to headsets Feb 11 14:10:35 My only concern is Qt Mobility Feb 11 14:10:41 And where that is heading. Feb 11 14:10:42 gotta love steve jobs Feb 11 14:10:43 Qt is dead. Feb 11 14:10:52 javispedro: bullshit :P Feb 11 14:10:57 IT IS DEAD!!! Feb 11 14:11:04 NO IT ISN'T Feb 11 14:11:07 it isn't Feb 11 14:11:10 Stop being a drama queen Feb 11 14:11:11 what is the name of this conference thingy going on atm? Feb 11 14:11:24 lardman: divide and conquer Feb 11 14:11:26 RST38h, Java demand rose 1.13% between Feb 2010 and Feb 2011. Meanwhile, over the same period, C lost 1.62%, C++ 1.26%, and PHP 3.03%. Only Python is the big winner: gaining 2.72%. Feb 11 14:11:30 Global Markets something or other. Feb 11 14:11:33 nokia luvs microsoft Feb 11 14:11:34 gtk is dead too javispedro :P Feb 11 14:11:39 GAN900: thanks Feb 11 14:11:45 MohammadAG: *more panic* Feb 11 14:11:57 Heh Feb 11 14:12:02 LOUD NOISES! Feb 11 14:12:06 zomg.. and the death of some gnome projects Feb 11 14:12:16 fscking wish I had some 10k to invest in puts and calls today Feb 11 14:12:23 * psycho_oreos watches as they wither :p Feb 11 14:12:30 javispedro, we're dead too Feb 11 14:12:38 MohammadAG: java the language is learning you Feb 11 14:12:39 meh Feb 11 14:12:46 bored on Windows and iTunes Feb 11 14:12:52 * MohammadAG reboots, throws iPhone Feb 11 14:12:58 we're already dead :) maemo doesn't exist in nokia's vocabulary anymore Feb 11 14:13:17 * E0x i see dead ppl ! Feb 11 14:13:18 Nokia doesn't exist in everyone's vocabulary Feb 11 14:13:23 MohammadAG: *clings to his pre* no, I'm not dead, I still have a few months left! Feb 11 14:13:32 Look on the brightside, no more fscking Ovi Suite. Feb 11 14:13:35 javispedro, you're dead, face it! Feb 11 14:13:40 * JockeTF loves Maemo 5. Feb 11 14:13:45 you know Feb 11 14:13:46 alterego: actually, more Ovi Suite. Feb 11 14:13:51 Look at the good side of things Feb 11 14:13:53 as much as I used to rant about MeeGo Feb 11 14:13:58 its a well deserved title for nokia to not be in everyone's vocabulary, after what elop did Feb 11 14:14:00 javispedro: Microsoft Ovi Suite? Feb 11 14:14:00 it was just epic Feb 11 14:14:01 I think I'll start working on it Feb 11 14:14:03 alterego: they do not plan to kill the brand... Feb 11 14:14:13 no Feb 11 14:14:15 alterego: and their budget for services will be as this year. Feb 11 14:14:16 Nokia Zune Feb 11 14:14:23 MohammadAG: :D Feb 11 14:14:31 Nokia Vista? Feb 11 14:14:34 so Feb 11 14:14:39 nokia kin 3 Feb 11 14:14:45 Nokia Zuvi Feb 11 14:14:48 UNFORTUNATELY, Nokia switched to .NET instead of E17 as I used to say. Feb 11 14:14:57 which toolkit they will use next year? Feb 11 14:14:59 lets have some product differentiation please. Feb 11 14:15:14 http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/1135263739290 Feb 11 14:15:18 javispedro, asm Feb 11 14:15:18 kin 3 by nokia Feb 11 14:15:29 lol :( Feb 11 14:15:42 Nicrosoftia? Feb 11 14:15:57 macrohard Feb 11 14:16:16 micronokia Feb 11 14:16:44 noksoft Feb 11 14:16:45 what's the status for NOK's stocks? Feb 11 14:16:51 micronok Feb 11 14:17:03 Well Feb 11 14:17:04 Mohammad: down Feb 11 14:17:06 Wall Garden levelness: WP7 > iOS > Symbian > WebOS > Android > Maemo/Meego Feb 11 14:17:07 Monika Feb 11 14:17:07 Good day all Feb 11 14:17:28 meego >SHR Feb 11 14:17:34 nokisoft Feb 11 14:17:36 MohammadAG: going up ... Feb 11 14:17:39 RST38h, duh, how much? :P Feb 11 14:17:46 alterego, you can't be serious Feb 11 14:17:48 This is a fucking disgrace with Nokia Feb 11 14:17:55 DrGrov: PANIC, RUN!! Feb 11 14:18:08 there is SHR support for N900? surprising Feb 11 14:18:22 Mohammad -7% or so Feb 11 14:18:39 I will sell my Nokia N8. Anyone interested? Feb 11 14:18:39 * GAN900 takes away javispedro's coffee. Feb 11 14:18:52 the pic is lulz http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=942123&postcount=9 Feb 11 14:18:53 eww n8 Feb 11 14:19:05 I will sell my N900 and C7 and buy a Samsung Galaxy :P Feb 11 14:19:06 I gotta rid of my fucking Nokia phones now since I will commit suicide otherwise Feb 11 14:19:07 it's not going up, it's going further down. -11.52% atm on live chart Feb 11 14:19:19 akikhaw: no shit sherlock Feb 11 14:19:45 Well, good news is that I now know what career direction I'm NOT going to be pursuing. Feb 11 14:19:49 won't be long before NOK reaches its newest low :) Feb 11 14:20:12 is there some patch or something for MyTube or other YouTube playing programs that actually makes them work on OS2008 nowadays? Feb 11 14:20:41 javispedro: Yes, I will panic and run the fuck away from Nokia LOL Feb 11 14:20:50 Luckily I don't have any Nokia shares Feb 11 14:21:05 GAN900: a pity :( Feb 11 14:21:26 WTF? Feb 11 14:21:43 Elop says in Finnish business news that "investers will understand the Microsoft connection eventually" Feb 11 14:21:50 Well, now I can pursue my dream of becoming . . . a wedding photographer! *g* ;) Feb 11 14:21:57 GAN: Bad news is that a similar outcome may await you in just about any large corporation Feb 11 14:22:17 -11.03% Feb 11 14:22:20 GAN900: just become your own boss (via 1099) Feb 11 14:22:20 lol.. Feb 11 14:22:25 what if people stopped getting married? Feb 11 14:22:31 maybe we could all get a metal file and start shaving off the nokia logo off the n900, then proudly taking a photo of it and putting it on one tmo thread showing our love for nokia :) Feb 11 14:22:33 RST38h, true enough. Feb 11 14:22:33 I mean, most people live with gfs nowadays :P Feb 11 14:22:40 Mohammad: He will photograph pets Feb 11 14:22:43 MohammadAG, them I'm well and truly fucked. Feb 11 14:22:53 Perhaps I could become a PI. Feb 11 14:22:53 yeah, what if instead of getting married, they switch to WP7? Feb 11 14:23:13 trx, I see what you did there Feb 11 14:23:36 :) Feb 11 14:23:37 GAN900, PI in times of facebook? Feb 11 14:23:49 what could you find out that people wouldn't already post themselves? Feb 11 14:23:54 maybe nokisoft is a good thing in the end: the r&d made the fantastic n900, and now that they have the go ahead for another experimental device, maybe they create a fantastic n9+ without the constraints of the mainstream company? Feb 11 14:24:12 lol Feb 11 14:24:23 -11,40% Feb 11 14:24:31 This is going to -20 aroundish stilll Feb 11 14:24:33 nokia.taleo.com is being emptied as we speak. Feb 11 14:24:40 *.net Feb 11 14:24:54 mikhas, maybe provide Facebook searching services for old people? Feb 11 14:25:08 brilliant idea! Feb 11 14:25:26 You guys like Elop's action or? Feb 11 14:25:50 I like it very mu... -- GRAB THE PITCHFORKS! GET HIM OUT OF OFFICE BEFORE HE DOES MORE DAMAGE! Feb 11 14:25:57 javispedro: what is that? Feb 11 14:26:08 erstazi: nokia job postings Feb 11 14:26:08 jhb1: I was thinking the same, no need to go mainstream now ;) Feb 11 14:26:18 javispedro: ah Feb 11 14:26:52 javispedro: They started removing job postings? Feb 11 14:27:00 frozen lemon bazooka anyone? time to aim that at elop Feb 11 14:27:03 jhb1: actually I see that happening for the opposite reason. The next "NIT" will probably be a lot more like previous NITs in that they use components they use a lot in their other handsets to reduce costs. So hopefully we'll get the same shiny hardware that their new high end line will have. Feb 11 14:27:31 http://www.elop.org/ Feb 11 14:27:34 alterego: though with those closed components again in that case Feb 11 14:27:37 one can only hope but only time will tell Feb 11 14:27:51 Khertan: OMG Feb 11 14:28:07 RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=942235 Feb 11 14:28:08 what if Nokia employees do what Egypt did? Feb 11 14:28:11 This is definitely the end for me with a Nokia, ever Feb 11 14:28:12 I'm glad that didn't load. Feb 11 14:28:15 lardman: such is the price we will always suffer. They've never shown any indication of changing that and some of it has nothing to do with them. Feb 11 14:28:27 alterego: :nod: Feb 11 14:28:34 Khertan hahaha Feb 11 14:28:40 MohammadAG: what if the country does? I'm sure some finns might not like this... Feb 11 14:28:50 MohammadAG, what was that? closed areas off to the public access? :) Feb 11 14:28:54 javispedro: I am a Finn actually Feb 11 14:29:03 javispedro: I am seriously considering suicide atm Feb 11 14:29:13 javispedro: And I am fucking pissed Feb 11 14:29:13 javispedro: Imagine what the guy will feel when he comes to the new work and finds out... Feb 11 14:29:21 psycho_oreos, err, no, rebel against Elop Feb 11 14:29:26 DrGrov: :( lots of beers will be drunk in Tampere and Helsinki tonight I fear. Feb 11 14:29:50 DrGrov: on the bright side, lots of beers will be drunk in Helsinki and Tampere tonight! Feb 11 14:29:53 MohammadAG, I so wish that would happen, in fact people should really start throwing shit at him Feb 11 14:30:00 -11,76% Feb 11 14:30:14 DrGrov: also, consider banning Elop from your country, I hear he's in London at the moment :P Feb 11 14:30:14 Mohammad: You do not rebel against your CEO Feb 11 14:30:23 What do you think the chances are that we'll be able to load a different OS onto the Nokia/MS phone? Feb 11 14:30:39 nae: no chance Feb 11 14:30:41 Mohammad: You say "Aye aye, my dearest leader" and continue on the new course Feb 11 14:30:58 Mohammad: Under assumption that he knows better Feb 11 14:30:59 alterego: why are you so convinced? Feb 11 14:31:09 alterego: Elop should get the fuck out now. Feb 11 14:32:10 alterego: I will go with some Finlandia vodka myself. A lot more pain relieving than beer Feb 11 14:32:10 nae: because if they can decide to completely screw the world and opt for WP7, what makes you think they'll make that line in the slightest open? Feb 11 14:32:11 its possible to load another OS, the guys who did chevronWP7 (WP7 jailbreaker tool) were being given a free WP7 phone and were asked to join the ms team. However in turn they must no longer publish their tool online. Supposedly newer WP7 may have alternative OS capability through probably some `power' menu Feb 11 14:32:29 ha,ha. Feb 11 14:32:36 doooown doooown doooooown Feb 11 14:32:46 -12.5% Feb 11 14:32:58 DrGrov: well, I hope we all survive, I have a couple of doomsday scenarios in my mind at the moment that were started by the announcement this morning. Feb 11 14:33:00 -12.75% Feb 11 14:33:05 we are going DOOOOWN ... ♬ Feb 11 14:33:16 -12.87% Feb 11 14:33:28 alterego: I sure as hell hope that everyone that has Nokia shares got rid of them already before the shit hit the fan Feb 11 14:33:31 psycho_oreos: they probably work in the cafateria :P Feb 11 14:33:45 DrGrov: they'll recover .. Feb 11 14:33:58 alterego: depends Feb 11 14:34:02 alterego, *shrugs* I'm sure they wouldn't want to work there forever :) Feb 11 14:34:15 DocScrutinizer: Can you link to where you are following the NOK share? My Finnish business news are fucking slow on updates Feb 11 14:34:22 RST38h, with 0 experience in a company, I know better Feb 11 14:34:29 http://www.finanzen.net/realtimekurs/Nokia Feb 11 14:34:41 DocScrutinizer: Thanks, time to closely monitor the fall of Nokia Feb 11 14:35:06 the only way he can fix this is if he says devices will dual boot MeeGo and WP7 Feb 11 14:35:06 also, http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOK&ql=0 Feb 11 14:35:16 alterego: all that makes me hope it will be open is just that, blind hope. I don't see what nokia has to gain from making it closed. Feb 11 14:35:23 and android Feb 11 14:35:34 MohammadAG, but what? still retain that stupid windows button? Feb 11 14:35:49 MohammadAG: ha-ha. For Microsoft, dual-boot means running two versions of Windows. Feb 11 14:36:21 and only ntfs/fat32 is supported Feb 11 14:36:25 psycho_oreos, replace it with a small LCD button Feb 11 14:36:47 that changes to a home button on other OSs Feb 11 14:36:57 Is it April 1st anywhere? Please? Feb 11 14:37:23 I wonder what is my next phone then... Any good suggestions? :) Feb 11 14:37:23 GAN900: be happy, Nokia will continue to develop Meego on the alternate universe () Feb 11 14:37:29 MohammadAG, if that also comes with the phone as standard then yeah that would probably also boost the sales of nokia devices Feb 11 14:37:45 psycho_oreos, that would rescue their stocks, sort of Feb 11 14:37:46 hello, windowserz Feb 11 14:37:48 javispedro: but it will be steam powered there Feb 11 14:37:55 DrGrov, I'm looking at nexus S Feb 11 14:37:55 javispedro: and made of copper Feb 11 14:37:58 My wife is fucking kill me with Aqua - Barbie Girl fucking shitt! Feb 11 14:38:08 any1 crazy left to develop for meego here? Feb 11 14:38:17 She is happy I am suffering like a cancer patient.... Feb 11 14:38:17 MohammadAG, as in if they do that in conjunction with allowing booting of meego/android Feb 11 14:38:21 DrGrov: Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Feb 11 14:38:31 RST38h: That is a really bad thing. Feb 11 14:38:32 I love that song, on mute Feb 11 14:38:37 zap_, me Feb 11 14:38:46 zap_, meego isn't founded solely by nokia alone Feb 11 14:38:51 yeah. Feb 11 14:38:52 they wont make dual boot we know it Feb 11 14:38:56 alternatives aren't looking nice Feb 11 14:39:05 It is also funded by Intel, which might actually be more interested in Android for x86. Feb 11 14:39:12 neat, good looking future. Feb 11 14:39:16 I think I will call Nokia and demand a fucking refund on my N8 since they have fucked up Feb 11 14:39:22 indeed Feb 11 14:39:30 MeeGo isn't dead... Feb 11 14:39:32 yet Feb 11 14:39:33 We are talking about microsoft, there will be no dual boot possibilites. Feb 11 14:39:35 or at least x86 for portable markets, continuing the push with atom/moorestown Feb 11 14:39:56 Mohammad: Talk to raster. Feb 11 14:40:10 =) Feb 11 14:40:16 * MohammadAG waits for that "Elop deletes meego.gitorious.org/*" headline Feb 11 14:40:57 aww i'm sure Nokia wouldn't give up that easy Feb 11 14:41:06 on meego Feb 11 14:41:24 This isn't Nokia Feb 11 14:41:24 they already did Feb 11 14:41:36 yep, it's MS Nokia Feb 11 14:41:37 Nothing good ever came from Canada. Feb 11 14:41:41 I wouldn't be surprised if the next device was called Nokia Elop Feb 11 14:41:47 xDaReaperx: they give up maemo alredy Feb 11 14:42:00 xDaReaperx: and meego is intel's child. easy to drop Feb 11 14:42:11 GAN: As I said before and was rebuffed, EVIl CANADIANS! =) Feb 11 14:42:19 s/drop/abort/ Feb 11 14:42:20 GAN: Michael Moore agrees! :) Feb 11 14:42:26 heh heralding the great historian who literally melded microsoft and nokia hands together. Powered by WP7 Feb 11 14:42:59 I wonder if the Nokia logo is Elop and Steve ballmer shaking hands Feb 11 14:43:23 elop with the smaller hand Feb 11 14:43:34 * javispedro mentally plays nokia tune ♬ ♪ Feb 11 14:43:50 hum ... and they will fire people ... Feb 11 14:44:06 I am sure the next new MS Nokia logo will be a happy fucking smile from Elop with a caring hand of Ballmer on his head. Like a fucking retard being caressed Feb 11 14:44:12 might even be ballmer's right hand man too, ballmer will be greeting him saying `good job soldier!, now time for us to get rid of the fins!' Feb 11 14:44:13 * Khertan is listening Freedom - Rage Against The Machine ♬ ♪ Feb 11 14:44:36 Elop is all microsoft, he only has their interest at heart. Is it just me that thinks microsoft planned this all along? This is why elop is at nokia at all? Feb 11 14:44:50 Per_n900: I knew that Elop had planned this fucking shit all along Feb 11 14:45:05 Per_n900: You remember when I told you yesterday about that there is a corpse buried when Elop left MS for Nokia? Feb 11 14:45:20 DrGrov: i think elop was put here by something else which plan the thing Feb 11 14:45:25 DrGrov: I do, and I completely agree with you! Feb 11 14:45:34 Elop used to work at MS? Feb 11 14:45:45 MohammadAG: yes Feb 11 14:45:48 Khertan: Well yes, Elop got himself put there by someone. Perhaps not Ballmer but someone else. Feb 11 14:45:50 MohammadAG: as far as I know YES Feb 11 14:45:58 Per_n900: I agree with you too! :) Feb 11 14:46:03 And they gladly hired the asshole? Feb 11 14:46:24 Elop has been in charge of Microsoft Office stuff at Microsoft before he got the CEO position at Nokia Feb 11 14:46:35 * MohammadAG cries Feb 11 14:46:46 lol Feb 11 14:46:54 Nokia got stolen Feb 11 14:46:57 two years and a half ago he was president of the business division of microsoft and signed an older deal with nokia Feb 11 14:47:00 last I checked, Office was one of the few useful things microsoft is doing... Feb 11 14:47:07 Microsoft kind of got him in. Nokia was doing bad things and microsoft could not have that. If you know your history, microsoft has done things like this many times before. Feb 11 14:47:29 Per_n900: how and why would they do that? Feb 11 14:47:39 so this was a conspiracy? Feb 11 14:47:49 MohammadAG: maybe ... maybe not Feb 11 14:48:16 I am 100% sure this was a conspiracyt Feb 11 14:48:27 MohammadAG: I dont know, but I would sure think so. Feb 11 14:48:27 a conspiracy to fsck you all? Feb 11 14:48:28 No, not this OS deal, but in August 2009 ”The worldwide leader in software and the world’s largest smartphone manufacturer have entered into an alliance that is set to deliver a groundbreaking, enterprise-grade solution for mobile productivity. Today, Microsoft Business Division President Stephen Elop and Nokia’s Executive Vice President for Devices Kai Öistämö announced the agreement, outlining a Feb 11 14:48:36 The plan was to bring “Microsoft Office Mobile and Microsoft business communications, collaboration and device management software to Nokia’s Symbian devices.” Feb 11 14:48:41 Yes, a conspiracy to fuck us royally Feb 11 14:48:44 What happened? Two and a half years later the same Stephen Elop announced that Symbian will be deprecated. Feb 11 14:48:50 dooooooooown! I'll buy at 7.00 Feb 11 14:48:58 source: http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ Feb 11 14:49:10 DocScrutinizer: I don't think it's getting that low. Feb 11 14:49:21 NOK is surely getting under 7.00 Feb 11 14:49:29 It will drop down to 5 something still Feb 11 14:49:36 javispedro, chances are stock prices will be divided by 0 Feb 11 14:50:01 ASK 7.06 Feb 11 14:50:13 Microsofts only way to compete when the products the produce sucks, is to use foul play. Study the history of microsoft and you will see. Feb 11 14:50:50 there's a good docu-drama for that, its called pirates of the silicon valley :) Feb 11 14:50:55 ok, I buy at 7.01 Feb 11 14:50:58 :-) Feb 11 14:51:10 why bother Feb 11 14:51:31 you're going to lose money either way Feb 11 14:51:32 You know, the more I try to digest this the more I'm thinking "wtf" ... Feb 11 14:52:11 -13,20% Feb 11 14:52:15 7.10 Feb 11 14:52:22 I'm trying to see this from a corporate standpoint. Feb 11 14:52:23 alterego, idiocy. Feb 11 14:52:23 DocScrutinizer still going down Feb 11 14:52:31 And even that makes me puzzled. Feb 11 14:52:37 alterego, more proof the company is being run by blind dinosaurs. Feb 11 14:52:40 alterego: yeah, I can find virtually no justification. Feb 11 14:52:46 why gates? just why? Feb 11 14:52:53 This is such a huge move, and it just doesn't make sense. Feb 11 14:53:06 GAN900: i didn't think it s dinosaurs ... but i more thinking of some hobbying ... Feb 11 14:53:16 Except the obvious CEO being an MS mole. Feb 11 14:53:19 it's like they just ignored the entire market, suddenly decided MS was #3 in market share and merged with them. Feb 11 14:53:26 alterego, they're asking to get bankrupt Feb 11 14:53:26 reminds me of one Dilbert episode... Feb 11 14:54:24 I know he's the CEO, but seriously, did no one think "Wait a minute, this isn't a good idea." Feb 11 14:54:38 The amount of trust they've lost and will lose .. Feb 11 14:54:41 Apparently the board didn't. Feb 11 14:54:45 Thus, dinosaurs. Feb 11 14:55:07 alterego: they surely said ... it s bad idea ... but i didn't care, ms give me enough money on a suiss account ... Feb 11 14:55:09 Brand loyalty, stability and rock hard platforms is why Nokia are great. Feb 11 14:55:20 I think I just saw an BrainSuck Industries (A dogbert company) OVNI Feb 11 14:55:28 javispedro: and innovation ... Feb 11 14:55:36 alterego: I am sure they have got a PPT presentation that shows how perfect and idea it is Feb 11 14:55:39 s/OVNI/UFO =) Feb 11 14:55:49 alterego: Words "synergy" and "paradigm" are almost surely used Feb 11 14:55:52 This just seems like someone has rotated one of those game show boards and gone with it. Feb 11 14:56:01 javispedro: Object Volant Non Identifié ? Feb 11 14:56:12 the reg article says there's no mention of exclusivity, so why do we assume that nokia will screw the dev community even more by not letting them put another OS on the phone. Back when big OEM pc makers were making deals with MS, MS didn't have them stop people loading other OSs onto the hardware Feb 11 14:56:16 Or the guy at the wheel of the ship thought "fuck it" and just span it round randomly. Feb 11 14:56:16 Khertan: yeah =) Feb 11 14:56:24 meh, some fonds have a limit at 7.08 (-1.0 from day before) Feb 11 14:56:28 javispedro: french ? Feb 11 14:56:49 Is there any way to watch that whole press conference when Elop fucks Nokia? Feb 11 14:56:52 Khertan: actually no, it's the same acronym in spanish Feb 11 14:57:20 DrGrov: I'm sure there will be, I'll probably look tomorrow. Feb 11 14:57:22 javispedro: actually no .. did you plan it ? or reborn in a next life in france ? Feb 11 14:57:22 :) Feb 11 14:57:33 Khertan: believe me it is :) Feb 11 14:58:04 I just feel really sad for all the Nokians, they've just been continually f'd. Feb 11 14:58:06 it's just the stress of the PANIC! Feb 11 14:58:15 Is there something we all can do about this? Feb 11 14:58:21 Per_n900: killing spree!! Feb 11 14:58:31 alterego: did they said how people they will fire ? Feb 11 14:58:31 Per_n900: watch and wait. Feb 11 14:58:40 alterego: well, it might be outdated hardware by the time it sees the magical device. But then there is the option that in 6 months time its "we scrapped it, because Ballmer told us to'. I am just glad that they only lost it after making the n900 Feb 11 14:58:47 Khertan: no, but I imagine it will be substantial. Feb 11 14:58:52 alterego, seriously. Thoughts go out to Nokians and their families affected by this tragedy. Feb 11 14:59:06 GAN900: indeed :/ Feb 11 14:59:34 Even qgil seems to be like "wtf, computing ... computing ... computing ... BSOD!!!" Feb 11 14:59:39 alterego: i read in a finnish news that around 1000 people go out and walk in the street to manifest again this decision Feb 11 14:59:47 For the whole of Finland as a country this is really a death blow Feb 11 14:59:50 Khertan: wow Feb 11 15:00:10 DrGrov: I know, it's devistating really. Feb 11 15:00:15 Look on the bright side, if MeeGo Devices is going back in the closet, we might see a 770 Mark II in 2014! Feb 11 15:00:24 GAN900: good point! Feb 11 15:00:35 let's go back to what made Maemo fun. Feb 11 15:00:43 alterego: I thought that Nokia would finally learn a lesson but no, get a real fuck up to run the company. Feb 11 15:01:06 I will go now and buy a new phone Feb 11 15:01:18 Any suggestions? A easy phone without any Nokia shit? Feb 11 15:01:39 I put away a few hundred euros just in case this fucking thing happened yesterday Feb 11 15:01:46 So, a new easy phone without any connection to Nokia? Feb 11 15:01:48 Shoot guys Feb 11 15:01:58 DrGrov: blackberry? Feb 11 15:02:08 DrGrov: just don't go to India! Feb 11 15:02:10 DrGrov: the samsung 3210 http://gadgetsmedia.vamban.com/2011/02/Samsung-Metro-3210-Mobile-Phone-With-3G-HSDPA-Connectivity-Price-in-India-Reviews-Technical-Specifications-Photos.jpg Feb 11 15:02:11 alterego: There is no Blackberrys here :( Feb 11 15:02:12 * MohammadAG pukes Feb 11 15:02:15 c'mom ASK 7.04 Feb 11 15:02:17 In all honesty, I think this just may go down in history as the most stupid decision ever made. Sigh. Feb 11 15:02:26 Hahah Feb 11 15:02:42 Khertan: Not a samsung :( Feb 11 15:02:53 How about a LG? Feb 11 15:02:58 No offence to those it may inadvertantly effect but. Fuck you American Corporatism! Feb 11 15:03:07 alterego: AGREED! :) Feb 11 15:03:29 DrGrov: not sure the build quality is that great with LGs Feb 11 15:03:54 alterego: ok the traduciton wasn't good ... it s hundred ... not thousand ... Feb 11 15:03:59 So, what does Europe seriosuly have now? :D Feb 11 15:04:00 alterego: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Yli%2Btuhat%2Bnokialaista%2Bmarssi%2Bty%25C3%25B6paikaltaan/1135263739290&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1 Feb 11 15:04:07 alterego: alcatel ... Feb 11 15:04:10 Mouahahahahah Feb 11 15:04:12 Hahah Feb 11 15:04:12 seve dot oh one BUUUUUUYYYY!!! Feb 11 15:04:23 alterego: The TV I have from LG has good build quality. Not sure though as you say about phones Feb 11 15:04:51 Nexus S? Feb 11 15:04:54 alterego: I saw the news of this on local TV today and that was their point. They were putting a heavy anti-americanism spin on the it. Feb 11 15:04:57 DrGrov: tbh, I'm running on old info, the fact is, even now, nothing beats a Nokia imo :( Feb 11 15:04:57 Never Google Feb 11 15:05:04 hahaha it was worse enough that the boards of Nokia had to sack that outgoing CEO, its even worse that the boards elected someone whose backgrounds were with microsoft whom now took a shot a stabbing their back Feb 11 15:05:10 what irony Feb 11 15:05:11 iPhone? :P Feb 11 15:05:15 alterego: "what does europe have in comms right now: nothing" Feb 11 15:05:27 Fuck no, no iPhone Feb 11 15:05:31 alterego: that's why they mentioned they had asked the EU commision Feb 11 15:05:41 javispedro: :/ Feb 11 15:05:52 (being a spanish network they mentioned telefonica as another european asset in comms, but I say HA) Feb 11 15:05:55 (16:04:25) javispedro: alterego: "what does europe have in comms right now: nothing" <<< alcatel and thales Feb 11 15:05:58 No offence to those it may inadvertantly effect but. Fuck you American Corporatism! Feb 11 15:06:00 alterego: So you think I should stay with the N8 even though we got royally fucked in kiesher? Feb 11 15:06:02 thales do the satellites :) Feb 11 15:06:03 The EU are too worried about Egypt at the moment. :D Feb 11 15:06:08 alterego: that's kinda irrelevant Feb 11 15:06:11 alterego: also Feb 11 15:06:21 DrGrov: yes, give it time, the N8 is a beautiful device. Feb 11 15:06:40 alterego: Can I hold you personally responsible for that quote that the "N8 is a beautiful device" ? :) Feb 11 15:06:44 when programs on my OS2008 say "resuming", what does that mean? have they been hybernated somehow? and if so, why don't they do that instead of saying "out of memory" when i'm out of memory? Feb 11 15:06:44 polished turd ;) Feb 11 15:07:01 DrGrov: at least it isn't running Windows Phone! :D Feb 11 15:07:13 alterego: Ah yes, the N8 is still running Symbian Feb 11 15:07:23 LjL: they do if they're coded right :P Feb 11 15:07:29 ah Feb 11 15:07:31 LjL: did you prefer ... i out of memory... crash you loose informations ? Feb 11 15:07:36 which isn't the one that's going to axed big time Feb 11 15:07:42 I gotta get some shopping done, a lot of vodka and food to last for the weekend. Feb 11 15:07:45 Khertan: who mentioned crashes? Feb 11 15:07:47 Be back a bit later though Feb 11 15:07:55 Is there any chance meego will run on the n8? Feb 11 15:07:55 Exactly what I said earlier. Suddenly Symbian doesn't seem so bad! Feb 11 15:08:09 :) this is the other way ... do not managing that you are out of memory ... Feb 11 15:08:14 hey, I hate WinMo. But Symbian is STILL crap. Feb 11 15:08:30 javispedro: .... both are crap Feb 11 15:08:30 I'm not that desesperate yet ;) Feb 11 15:08:40 but at least ... symbian have QT ! Feb 11 15:09:06 ok, thats got those bugs filed Feb 11 15:09:16 you know what will happen when they point out they can now use MS VS to develop. Feb 11 15:09:18 Gonna be a loooong weekend. Feb 11 15:09:56 * javispedro can't wait for mwc Feb 11 15:09:57 I didnt ask for source for stuff, I only asked for header files (figuring that header files are a lot more likely to happen) Feb 11 15:10:02 thank god, I didn't register to the Nokia QT dev event =) Feb 11 15:10:14 I have one existing bug plus 4 new bugs I just filed Feb 11 15:10:32 7,08 € -13,45% Feb 11 15:10:38 existing bug is for cell broadcast stuff Feb 11 15:10:57 7.02... Feb 11 15:11:19 7.01 BUUUUYY! Feb 11 15:11:22 Ah, Nokia decided to go for the Seppuku option ;) Feb 11 15:11:31 new bugs are for cellmodem headers (including GPS and stuff) plus libisi headers, libbmeipc headers, connectivity UI library headers and ICD policy plugin stuff Feb 11 15:11:44 meh, 7.00 Feb 11 15:11:54 jonwil: everything is dead just close shop like everyone else and panic! Feb 11 15:11:59 jonwil: (joking) good work! Feb 11 15:12:06 now I just need to figure out who to ping with these bugs (and what to say) Feb 11 15:12:10 http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ Feb 11 15:12:26 * alterego imagines Nokia scrapping Qt Dev days and giving out MSDN licenses to those that are eager and keen to get butt raped. Feb 11 15:13:11 It s a fucking bad Day ... nokia switching to WP7 ... Lopsi 2 adopted by french gouv (restrain net neutrality, and liberties) ... Feb 11 15:13:26 riot! Feb 11 15:13:27 hahaha Feb 11 15:13:45 Personally I think that if Microsoft wants Windows phone 7 to succeed, they need to scrap the need to pay a development fee to develop for the platform (still have a fee if you want to actually submit apps to the marketplace though) **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 11 15:15:53 2011 Feb 11 15:16:15 Sigh, so that leaves basically Android for my next phone, ... :( Feb 11 15:18:30 jonwil: I thought everyone did that :D Feb 11 15:18:31 eerie silence Feb 11 15:20:32 fsck the french! Feb 11 15:20:32 err sorry that meant to be "french kissing" :-P Feb 11 15:20:32 watching stock live charts, wow never did that. Even more exciting than watching a kernel make Feb 11 15:20:32 suspense!!! Feb 11 15:20:32 wonder if the 7.00 line will stand Feb 11 15:20:59 I'm going now, take care folks. Feb 11 15:21:13 moo Jaffa Feb 11 15:21:36 yeeeeeehaaa Feb 11 15:21:49 PANIC Feb 11 15:23:31 get ready to go back to the normal universe =) Feb 11 15:23:36 * DocScrutinizer opens the champagne for the welcome drinks Feb 11 15:23:42 back into the normal universe! =) Feb 11 15:23:50 ok, so having filed these bugs, who is the best person to ping about them? stskeeps? council? tekojo? someone else? Feb 11 15:24:04 * DocScrutinizer hands javispedro a glass of champagne. "welcome!" Feb 11 15:24:28 council, stskeeps, tekojo Feb 11 15:24:34 DocScrutinizer: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-02-11.log.html#t2011-02-11T17:18:36 ;) Feb 11 15:24:46 how do I contact council then? Feb 11 15:25:27 jonwil: put into -community list Feb 11 15:25:41 and say what exactly? Feb 11 15:25:45 * javispedro 's going back to work now Feb 11 15:26:07 jonwil: propose your plan.... Feb 11 15:26:40 time for 12648430 ☕ Feb 11 15:26:43 * jonwil wouldn't know what to say in such a formal proposal Feb 11 15:27:15 this doesn't have to be formal. even rant allowed ;-) Feb 11 15:27:25 ok Feb 11 15:28:16 though your chances are better without rant, and a clear crisp description of problem and planned action to tackle it, needed support etc Feb 11 15:29:19 should I send one mail for all my different things or multiple mails? Feb 11 15:31:14 one mail per topic Feb 11 15:31:19 ok Feb 11 15:31:38 will send the mail tommorow, its too late in the evening for me to be sending important mails such as these Feb 11 15:31:40 too tired Feb 11 15:31:44 cya later guys Feb 11 15:34:39 cya Feb 11 15:48:45 How is the N900's battery life? Feb 11 15:49:35 I could get one for free but I'm a bit worried because I'm used to my Nokia 1208 with 1-2 weeks of stand-by battery life. Feb 11 15:49:52 Guest20599: Depends on your use and network coverage Feb 11 15:50:11 Guest20599: it could be 2 hour to 8 days Feb 11 15:50:14 i dont usually dont use network, and recharge it every days. Feb 11 15:51:43 I see. Feb 11 15:52:10 Well, I suppose I could give it a shot. Feb 11 15:56:01 well, folks, sad news today. Feb 11 15:56:23 orospakr: lol. Feb 11 15:57:45 not actually. it IS a sad day, just the fact that quite a few individuals have showed up to express condolances is depressing and funny Feb 11 16:00:53 "Over a thousand Nokia employees walk out in protest in Tampere, Finland." Feb 11 16:01:09 heh! :-D Feb 11 16:01:13 I've been dreading the announcement all week. Feb 11 16:01:15 fo reel? Feb 11 16:01:25 from twitter. so who knows? Feb 11 16:01:25 orospakr: I'd guess those guys work on Symbian... Feb 11 16:01:26 they should make a riot and take over Feb 11 16:01:36 Robot101, yeah, I suspect as much. Feb 11 16:01:39 whatever they are doing Feb 11 16:01:47 anything is better than this.. Feb 11 16:02:09 Robot101: could you help with ISI .h ? Feb 11 16:02:27 symbian is open source, what are the chances of it living as a fork? Feb 11 16:02:34 absolutely none Feb 11 16:02:50 Nokia already shitcanned the Symbian Foundation and took the source offline Feb 11 16:02:58 nobody cared to contribute anything, at all Feb 11 16:03:53 oh :( Feb 11 16:03:54 Robot101: we got the public wirelessmobileapi specs for ISI, but they are not correct for BB5 RAPUYAMA N900 cmt Feb 11 16:03:59 6,94 € -15,16% Feb 11 16:04:15 yeah Feb 11 16:04:39 DocScrutinizer: buy tim Feb 11 16:04:50 e Feb 11 16:05:02 Khertan: I spent all my virtual money when ASK 7.01 Feb 11 16:05:07 DocScrutinizer: I don't know anything about this... check ofono source code is the only idea I have Feb 11 16:05:51 well, the question is where from ofono got their specs. Parts of ISI aren't dealt with in ofono, e.g GPS Feb 11 16:06:20 and the specs in wirelessmobileapi are not correct for GPS Feb 11 16:06:27 DocScrutinizer : Nokia is the worst performance of the day Feb 11 16:06:33 on the market Feb 11 16:06:37 Khertan: you bet it is Feb 11 16:06:50 DocScrutinizer: the ISI code in ofono is all from Nokians Feb 11 16:06:55 DocScrutinizer: so they got their specs inside somewhere :) Feb 11 16:07:18 and alcatel-lucent go up ... (i didn't know if they still made mobile phone) Feb 11 16:07:31 Robot101: :nod: so whom to prod to get those ""leaked"" Feb 11 16:07:49 DocScrutinizer: people on #ofono? you could always go ask if anyone knows how $foo works Feb 11 16:07:57 DocScrutinizer: but they might be busy/distracted/drinking today Feb 11 16:08:07 LOL, of course Feb 11 16:08:13 Robot101: thanks a lot Feb 11 16:08:35 lol alcatel made Android Phone today ... Feb 11 16:09:51 (alcatel is a french phone maker) Feb 11 16:10:01 "Nokia said today it has named Chris Weber as President of Nokia (US), and head of Markets, North America. He spent 16 years at Microsoft in a number of senior executive roles, including sales, marketing and professional services. " Feb 11 16:10:45 crashanddie: lobbying .... Feb 11 16:11:07 its a takeover. It was planned. Feb 11 16:11:12 MS staff is taking over.. Feb 11 16:11:21 byebye Mubarak Feb 11 16:11:21 action go down Feb 11 16:11:35 -15 for now Feb 11 16:11:46 and ms will be able to bough it at interesting price Feb 11 16:12:00 6,89 € -15,77% Feb 11 16:12:06 if it continues to fall like this Feb 11 16:12:16 i will be able buy nokia Feb 11 16:12:17 :) Feb 11 16:12:33 and make everything open source Feb 11 16:12:35 :-) Feb 11 16:12:53 Erhm... Khertan, Nokia still has a MC of what, $35B? Feb 11 16:12:58 i wouldnt even think about it, just press the "go open source" button Feb 11 16:12:59 Khertan: WTF?, 6.96 ASK here Feb 11 16:13:03 ouch ... someone didn't explain they that they should jump far ... else they will bloat them on the Pillar of the burning plateform ? Feb 11 16:13:03 it would have to drop *drastically* before MSFT can buy them Feb 11 16:13:16 DocScrutinizer: it s moving fast Feb 11 16:13:19 DocScrutinizer Nokia Oyj 6.92 -1.24 Feb 11 16:13:19 -15.20% Feb 11 16:13:23 already 15% drop??? Feb 11 16:13:26 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/ <-- hmm Feb 11 16:13:52 Khertan & trx NYSE? Feb 11 16:13:52  6,93 € -15,28% now :) Feb 11 16:13:53 ruskie: look at the graph - it's not that much down since last month Feb 11 16:14:08 Khertan & ruskie: if you're looking at the NYSE, please fix your browser and look at the shares in $ Feb 11 16:14:28 Khertan: seems you're watching another stock exchange Feb 11 16:14:37 http://www.nasdaqomxnordic.com/aktier/shareinformation?Instrument=HEX24311 Feb 11 16:14:42 Having a CEO completely loyal to microsoft is a takeover. The rest is just formalities, you will see. Feb 11 16:15:44 crashanddie, http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOA3.DE might not be even watching the right... but seems to be right for me... Feb 11 16:15:48 crashanddie: it s an european company ... so € Feb 11 16:15:51 :) Feb 11 16:15:59 eur, yes Feb 11 16:16:03 Khertan, that has nothing to do with it, LOL Feb 11 16:16:17 I could have a small company in Switzerland and be publicly traded in YEN Feb 11 16:16:19 i know ... just joking Feb 11 16:16:49 crashanddie: did you know i work 2.5 year to do software that make performance report ? :) Feb 11 16:16:59 I did not Feb 11 16:17:10 You fancy getting a python dev job in Paris? Feb 11 16:17:23 also why would I want to see it in $ ? Feb 11 16:17:36 considering I'm in europe and use euros everyday? Feb 11 16:17:58 Well, Nokia Corp is down 13.6% Feb 11 16:18:04 and is traded in USD Feb 11 16:18:04 crashanddie: a position was just cancelled (for c++/qt for symbian / meego) three hour ago, and i m waiting answer from one Feb 11 16:18:19 we're going to need someone who can use Robot Framework and to develop our public high-level API Feb 11 16:18:50 well, I don't know if I have the budget to "need someone", but I can always have a word with HR if you want Feb 11 16:19:09 BID 6.94 ASK 7.01 Feb 11 16:19:10 so more open OS for mobile ? Feb 11 16:19:20 http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=5d&s=MSFT&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=NOK Feb 11 16:19:21 down 13.6%? that must be because the announcement of Windows Mobile phone Feb 11 16:19:23 phones Feb 11 16:19:29 Well, Egypt was successful, the guy left Feb 11 16:19:40 good for them Feb 11 16:19:42 [2011-02-11 17:10:19] byebye Mubarak Feb 11 16:19:49 Time to start planning the same for Elop Feb 11 16:19:57 hehe Feb 11 16:20:30 I'd suggest lynching him before he vanishes with 70 billion, like Mubarak did Feb 11 16:20:51 alllllllah akbaaaaaaar Feb 11 16:21:03 probably too late though, the contract with M$ is already signed Feb 11 16:21:10 hehe Feb 11 16:22:18 contracts can be broken Feb 11 16:22:24 We could make them change their minds! Just buy more of the meego device than all the other windows devices! Feb 11 16:22:28 basically, Nokia should go back into startup mode Feb 11 16:22:30 I think nokia has alot more that would be of interest to MS, QT for example. Feb 11 16:22:40 well, not Nokia -- the people responsible for Maemo / MeeGo. Feb 11 16:22:58 Get Ari Jaaski back, Quim and timeless in a dusty office. Feb 11 16:23:47 crashanddie: Fundamental problem is you need several millions in VC to do a prototype phone. Feb 11 16:24:02 I'd contribute a few hundred tops - but... Feb 11 16:24:37 I'm guessing M$ is getting access to the nice fat patent portfolio as well... Feb 11 16:30:39 well I guess it helps that they'll keep the S40 investments going... Feb 11 16:32:51 crashanddie: why not ... where is it located, what the purpose of the project ? Feb 11 16:33:19 * ZogG xmms2> Rage Against The Machine - Killing In The Name Of [2009] Feb 11 16:35:08 I still think Mer v2 should be done Feb 11 16:35:16 then a prototype community device Feb 11 16:35:34 MohammadAG, that is not a bad idea. Feb 11 16:36:06 MohammadAG, talked to DocScrutinizer , not a good idea =( Feb 11 16:36:30 switching to WP7 wasn't a good idea either Feb 11 16:36:38 http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211/ Feb 11 16:36:39 though if there are people to organize anything and preorder money it can work Feb 11 16:37:05 MohammadAG, what mer v2 are you talking about btw? Feb 11 16:37:13 nooooooo Feb 11 16:37:17 wp7 Feb 11 16:37:26 :( Feb 11 16:37:41 i am going to sick in my own mouth Feb 11 16:37:48 "MeeGo" in the front of the bus :-D Feb 11 16:37:49 what? Feb 11 16:38:17 ZogG, writing maemo bits as foss bit by bit Feb 11 16:38:28 I'm not talking about bme and the likes Feb 11 16:38:51 interesting day Feb 11 16:39:31 Nokia will be so screwed Feb 11 16:39:35 with Windows Feb 11 16:39:46 MohammadAG it would stay maemo Feb 11 16:39:48 maemo6 Feb 11 16:40:32 honestly we shouldt care ... always look on the bright side of life ... Feb 11 16:40:36 now all :-) Feb 11 16:40:42 >>...3000 people working at Nokia’s Tampere facility (which will be closed down)...<< WTF?! Feb 11 16:40:52 seriously? Feb 11 16:41:06 well everybody working at Symbian will be laid off eventually Feb 11 16:41:07 DocScrutinizer: 600 are megoon Feb 11 16:41:10 DocScrutinizer: that is a translation error Feb 11 16:41:23 omm k Feb 11 16:41:27 ZogG, a better maemo Feb 11 16:41:30 DocScrutinizer: original finnish article does not say anything about closing down Feb 11 16:41:32 i thought 1000? Feb 11 16:41:49 Bye .... Feb 11 16:42:08 Just say about hundred person in the street at 14h00 Feb 11 16:42:09 bye Feb 11 16:43:14 BluesLee, totally right, oh wait... where is bright side in it exactly? Feb 11 16:44:12 MohammadAG: actually I sympathize with that idea (mer'ed maemo5) Feb 11 16:45:11 ZogG: i expected such a deal so i am not suprised at all, things change ... if not meego that webos or whatever ... Feb 11 16:45:17 now all QT would disappear as well Feb 11 16:45:27 though, farnkly, Nokia shall move their lazy stinky arse and open up the sources, as maemo isn't on their sales list anymore Feb 11 16:45:48 Sc0rpius Qt Feb 11 16:46:10 Qt Feb 11 16:46:16 DocScrutinizer, and sent us batteries Feb 11 16:46:22 lilon Feb 11 16:47:16 i have an idea Feb 11 16:48:02 we sent DocScrutinizer to Nokia, he got CEO job, than he go to Ms and got CEO there and than he announce bankrupt Feb 11 16:48:17 DocScrutinizer: somebody has to pay the lawyers for opening sources :-/ Feb 11 16:48:21 at OM we had NDAs with some hw suppliers, and we carefully checked when those NDAs expired and immediately published stuff as soon as they did Feb 11 16:48:37 nokia going into sea with microsoft ... :P Feb 11 16:48:43 thats a bad joke :) Feb 11 16:48:51 DocScrutinizer, if things like this are done, we'll be done quick https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11913 Feb 11 16:48:52 Bug 11913: cloned notification light applet with proper portrait mode dialog Feb 11 16:49:57 andre__: need of lawyers to open docs of any kind is *largely* overestimated Feb 11 16:50:00 well. moo. Feb 11 16:50:01 Sc0rpius, doubtful Feb 11 16:51:00 we'll see Feb 11 16:51:04 DocScrutinizer: generalization of complex processes is largely overpopular ;-) Feb 11 16:51:30 hehe, yeah. Though I've done that process Feb 11 16:51:41 so I'm not pulling this outa my arse Feb 11 16:53:04 wouldn't lawyering only be needed with those bits that might be somehow related to something from some patent or other? Feb 11 16:53:30 how's the news about the switch to windows phone being digested around here? Feb 11 16:53:30 DocScrutinizer, I remember times when I was in HEL when every second answer to my questions was "That involves lawyers". I don't think that laws changed in the meantime... Feb 11 16:53:50 Choom, can you guess? Feb 11 16:53:51 Choom: My coffee still tastes good ;-) Feb 11 16:53:57 is it possible that the N900 will end up being both the first and last linux phone from nokia? Feb 11 16:54:34 Choom, they did say they'll have one meego device Feb 11 16:54:40 yes it is possible, says the 8-ball Feb 11 16:54:40 "device" Feb 11 16:54:44 lemme put it that way: if 'somebody' would take a 64GB usb stick, copy the sources et al, clean it to s/Nokia/NNNN/, and upload it to rapidshare or wikileaks or whatever, I bet absolutely nothing bad would happen to Nokia Inc. Feb 11 16:55:11 Doc: funny way to state things Feb 11 16:55:36 Doc: I mean what MORE can happen to Nokia INc.? Feb 11 16:56:03 ...than what happened today. Actually nuttin Feb 11 16:56:12 ruskie: isn't meego essentially dead too? Feb 11 16:56:28 well next step is filing for bankrupcy and the total disappear of the company Feb 11 16:56:33 Choom, only if nokia suddenly became the linux foundation Feb 11 16:56:36 so there are worse things that can happen Feb 11 16:57:59 if I was Nokia, I would have killed Symbian anyway at least two years ago, and all phones today would be Maemo "7" or something Feb 11 16:58:32 andre__: I wonder if Elop asked 157 lawyers if what he did today was OK with them and their screwed view of reality Feb 11 16:58:58 he doesnt have to Feb 11 16:59:03 well, probably yes. That's why it turned out to be like it is Feb 11 16:59:06 ms has plenty of lawyers.. Feb 11 16:59:31 trx: @M$ lawyers write the code Feb 11 17:00:15 um, you're probabbly right.. Feb 11 17:00:51 what happened "today"? Feb 11 17:00:59 I really doubt Nokia has to *pay* a lot for lawyers telling them they are allowed to open up sources (C) Nokia that were closed due to BS like "differentiation" Feb 11 17:01:55 if they dont want to open it up, they could at least give the source to the council or something Feb 11 17:02:33 so that at least someone can fix the bugs if they are scrapping it anyway Feb 11 17:03:44 andre__: actually meego gets maemo sources, while maemo community never will - go figure Feb 11 17:04:10 DocScrutinizer, we can rewrite parts Feb 11 17:04:28 implement what Nokia didn't Feb 11 17:04:29 MohammadAG: That's not the point - though I mostly agree Feb 11 17:04:56 Drivers are the most important thing if you ask me. Feb 11 17:05:11 support a platform Nokia failed to do Feb 11 17:06:27 DocScrutinizer: opensourcing a component is not as easy as throwing (l)gpl on it and then releasing, as you surely know Feb 11 17:06:52 frals, Nokia isn't doing both afaik Feb 11 17:07:00 frals: depends on what you're referring to Feb 11 17:07:26 frals: per definition it is Feb 11 17:07:44 DocScrutinizer: but most likely not legal to do so ;-) Feb 11 17:07:59 frals: actually not even any gpl needed, just publish or make available the code and it's open source Feb 11 17:08:20 frals: WTF could be illegal in publishing my own code? Feb 11 17:08:34 DocScrutinizer: Patents. Feb 11 17:08:41 meh Feb 11 17:08:43 might be licensed from someone else, patents, etc Feb 11 17:09:07 patents on calendar, SUUURE Feb 11 17:09:08 it needs to be verified its not breaking any previous agreements or anything, which i guess is a costly process Feb 11 17:09:18 hey apple patented icons didnt they? ;P Feb 11 17:09:42 even if there were, an anonymous code drop wouldn't have any impact on patent trolling scene Feb 11 17:09:48 Someone tried to patent doule-clicking. Why wouldn't they patent a calendar? Feb 11 17:09:51 there's also the FCC / CE compliance issue Feb 11 17:09:57 "anonymous code drop", you mean, breach of contract? Feb 11 17:10:25 Uninstalling Mubarak ... █████████████100%██████████████ Feb 11 17:10:32 But, 3rd party code is more likely for calendar. Feb 11 17:10:32 what f'ing contract?? with whom?? Feb 11 17:11:29 who would the "anonymous code drop" come from? Feb 11 17:12:12 i interpret is a a dev or something, which would probably have signed a contract with his employer Feb 11 17:12:17 see, either there's a (C) Nokia header in a file, then ->publish immediately. Or there's a header (C) ACME Colabora, then ->don't publish, post a "sorry NDA" Feb 11 17:12:23 easy as this Feb 11 17:12:34 id love to live in your b/w world :-) Feb 11 17:13:10 frals: hahaha Feb 11 17:14:11 my worls actually is B/W, as in B=1 W=0, I form ascii chars and even poems out of that Feb 11 17:14:36 and a header in a .c or .h usually isn't colored Feb 11 17:14:46 it's friggin clear Feb 11 17:14:48 frals, andre__. :) Feb 11 17:14:50 anyone know how to make ordinary sound come out of the earphone (like sound from a call)? Feb 11 17:14:57 either you own the source or you don't Feb 11 17:15:27 if you own, you publish after cleaning it, so nobody can prove it's actually yours. Feb 11 17:15:48 and can i mess stuff up by manually copying alsamixer settings from a call? Feb 11 17:16:14 if you don't own, and you are a guy playing nice, you won't break contracts with yozr partners and won't publish their IP Feb 11 17:16:19 even if it does cost money, why cant they do this one last thing for us and do whatever they want later.. Feb 11 17:16:37 yes, it would be at least a good away present. Feb 11 17:17:16 doing "nice things" doesnt generally provide cashflow, which is what investors care about, hence managers care about it :[ Feb 11 17:17:18 trx: +1 Feb 11 17:17:28 pretty sure many devs share your views, thou. Feb 11 17:17:42 after all, you guys made software that helped sell the n900 Feb 11 17:18:02 as soon as i heard of n900 and hen i bought one Feb 11 17:19:02 maemo and h-e-n* Feb 11 17:19:12 frals: those managers must get fired, as they can't think about tomorrow, their idea about how business and esp customer relationship and corporate identity works obviously ends 60min from now with next newsflash and stock exchange reports. And you've seen what that gets them, today Feb 11 17:19:14 DocScrutinizer: time to change the topic? Feb 11 17:19:27 so, guys, its been pretty doom and gloom on twitter with the news..but....will there be anything as good as the n900? ..... will the next meego device be a phone? Feb 11 17:19:27 DocScrutinizer: suggestion: "LIVE ON #maemo: FALL OF NOKIA" Feb 11 17:19:34 ;) Feb 11 17:20:02 * frals retires back to the kitchen and the beers Feb 11 17:20:05 lol Feb 11 17:21:51 piggz: At 12:32 today, I heartd something that implied to me the next meego device is to be a phone. Feb 11 17:21:57 I wasn't recording though. Feb 11 17:22:22 wooot Feb 11 17:22:28 nokia with windows? Feb 11 17:22:35 \o/ Feb 11 17:22:38 good morning jacekowski Feb 11 17:22:41 finally! Feb 11 17:22:51 and happy doomsday Feb 11 17:23:17 i may just get an iphone Feb 11 17:23:25 SpeedEvil: that i suppose is a silver lining...i only hope that qt development stays on, its a great toolkit Feb 11 17:23:32 so... nokia's dead? :) Feb 11 17:23:47 good morning and happy doomsday to you slonopotamus too Feb 11 17:24:10 javispedro: ohai Feb 11 17:24:11 javispedro: morning ? it's 18h30 here ! Feb 11 17:24:19 ~tell marmoute about ugt Feb 11 17:24:28 meh, we have our n900's... when they are dead, we can allways carry our desktops arround :) Feb 11 17:24:34 * marmoute tell javispedro about "gug" Feb 11 17:24:54 and i have a headache Feb 11 17:25:05 hmm, actually thinking of buying a n900 - never been into smartphones before, but linux Feb 11 17:25:05 ok ok Feb 11 17:25:31 Tukanfan: you would be buying very dead platform Feb 11 17:26:23 I actually think the best thing I have ever done in my life was buying the N900 Feb 11 17:26:26 Tukanfan, if you want to play around, get one on ebay, other than that it's outdated running a dead os Feb 11 17:26:41 jacekowski: don't you think the community still will be around for some time? Feb 11 17:26:56 it's the best device in the world merlin1991 Feb 11 17:27:15 for playing around doing dev, being a geek, ... Feb 11 17:27:18 Tukanfan: not for much longer Feb 11 17:27:35 merlin1991: thx for the positive outlook! afaict, n900 is still one of the most advanced phones....no other phone has such great features built in, like connecting to all my IM accounts Feb 11 17:27:37 and pupnik I own one myself and I'm proud of it :D Feb 11 17:28:56 but it will be possible to run meego on n900 ? Feb 11 17:29:06 In principle, yes. Feb 11 17:29:09 2011-02-10.173519+0000GMT.txt:(07:16:56 PM) SpeedEvil: I think they're going to try to use W7 as a fill-in till meego is ready. Feb 11 17:29:11 * SpeedEvil sighs. Feb 11 17:29:30 this is literally a victory for satan Feb 11 17:29:32 heh, got a txt from a friend.. "2 Steves doesnt make the Jobs" Feb 11 17:29:33 hurry or I'll buy those remaining N900 to pile up a stockof spares Feb 11 17:29:51 ;] Feb 11 17:29:53 Are you guys then keeping your n900's for as long time as possible, or do you switch platform? Feb 11 17:30:03 i will keep it Feb 11 17:30:17 keep. Feb 11 17:30:21 SpeedEvil> In principle, yes., that's the main problem with the n900, in principle everything is possible but you need to ignore all the -devel warnings and spend time with the device Feb 11 17:30:21 Keep. Feb 11 17:30:27 keep Feb 11 17:30:30 and after few years maybe some other phone with meego Feb 11 17:30:36 keep Feb 11 17:30:39 Tukanfan, to what? :( Feb 11 17:30:40 And hope the meego phone is nice. Feb 11 17:30:49 We need more real linux phones out there. Feb 11 17:30:58 I dont know what I would switch to, there really is nothing to switch to in my opinion. Feb 11 17:30:58 GEAN900: Yeah, excactly... Feb 11 17:30:59 And that it sells well, and w7 doesn't and nokia leaps back aboard meego in desperation. Feb 11 17:31:04 keep Feb 11 17:31:12 for next 5 years minimum Feb 11 17:31:29 :)) Feb 11 17:31:31 SpeedEvil: I think at that time Nokia will not exist anymore Feb 11 17:31:34 then, better start stocking n900s. Feb 11 17:31:41 or even if it exists, will have no remaining resources Feb 11 17:32:02 is there any meego phone already ? Feb 11 17:32:07 nope Feb 11 17:32:14 I don't give a shit about more linux phones out there. I'm happy with my stash of linux phones here Feb 11 17:32:31 I give a shit. Feb 11 17:32:32 I want a phone with meego. Feb 11 17:33:10 there only problem with n900 is lag Feb 11 17:33:40 DocScrutinizer, I want more RAM. :( Feb 11 17:33:42 hm n900 for 6,50 on ebay here Feb 11 17:33:53 DocScrutinizer, basically I agree. But what do you wanna do if your n900 etc. gets too much outdated? Feb 11 17:34:00 GAN900: I actually wouldn't know what for Feb 11 17:34:03 this years biggest disappointment, Nokia & Microsoft Feb 11 17:34:06 come on Feb 11 17:34:09 Get a Macintosh! Feb 11 17:34:10 you don't understand how these things work NIN101 Feb 11 17:34:21 a N900 CAN NOT BE OUTDATED BY A WINDOWS PHONE Feb 11 17:34:30 NIN101: how would it get outdated? Feb 11 17:34:32 I mean the hardware Feb 11 17:34:35 hi pupnik_ , happy doomsday :) Feb 11 17:34:42 hi javispedro Feb 11 17:34:43 carriers tearing down 3G? :-P Feb 11 17:34:55 What about intel? Would like to know what they're thinking in this mess Feb 11 17:34:57 dumbsday Feb 11 17:35:04 pupnik_++ Feb 11 17:36:54 hmm Feb 11 17:37:04 copying schemas into a deb isn't illegal is it? Feb 11 17:37:04 the stock is just 14% down and stabilizing, nothing is going to happen. Feb 11 17:37:11 What should we do? Try to help get meego running good on n900 or keep developing maemo? Stupid question? Feb 11 17:37:13 I want a Samsung Meego Powr Dluxe 4G or with dual superdragon processors, 1 GB RAM, 2 GHz and 15 MP camera or any fashionable name like that. Feb 11 17:37:29 MohammadAG: you can copyright a gconf schema file, but I don't think Nokia^W Microsoft is going to pursue that. Feb 11 17:37:33 Per_n900: meego is a future i think Feb 11 17:37:40 javispedro, lies, we're all gonna die Feb 11 17:37:51 javispedro, mmk Feb 11 17:38:33 It would be a real shame to see this community dissolve, that is for sure. Feb 11 17:38:43 then osso-applet-notificationlight will be replaced with a FOSS rewrite in the CSSU, thanks to nicolai Feb 11 17:38:56 Per_n900: maemo.org already didn't have anything to do with nokia Feb 11 17:39:02 yeah ... looks like it is only question of time Feb 11 17:39:12 doubt it Feb 11 17:39:16 javispedro: It has Feb 11 17:39:24 where is your pride, finland. stick with linux. windows IS evil. Feb 11 17:39:44 finland isn't responsible for this, canada is :P Feb 11 17:39:49 * ruskie waits for the: Linus uses a WinPho7 Feb 11 17:40:00 Linus uses Android, that is shocking enough for me. Feb 11 17:40:29 * MohammadAG waits for the: Linux kernel was developed on Windows Feb 11 17:40:29 * DocScrutinizer throws a 1800g powerblock at ptl Feb 11 17:40:38 MohammadAG: minix Feb 11 17:40:54 javispedro, that's what was planted in your head, as a kid Feb 11 17:41:00 that's what they WANT you to believe Feb 11 17:41:06 javispedro: ok, fair enough, but it seems everybody here wants different things. Feb 11 17:41:10 it was written on a early build of Windows 7 Feb 11 17:41:21 an* Feb 11 17:41:37 MohammadAG: quite early build then Feb 11 17:41:49 * slonopotamus orders openpandora. and ftw. Feb 11 17:42:02 good stuff. Feb 11 17:42:44 Linux kernel was developed on Windows Feb 11 17:43:06 and Linus is an ass Feb 11 17:43:41 I'd like to comment here about the disaster, but my thoughts have mostly been posted already, in a slightly more peaceful way. Feb 11 17:44:02 uhsf: feel free to panic. Feb 11 17:44:12 ;] Feb 11 17:44:19 uhsf, this is officialy a channel of rage today, go ahead :) Feb 11 17:44:24 ""Joe Hacker reveals WinMo7 is actually a linux-based OS with a funny skin created by a student at M$, and much closed to linux mainstream than for instance Android ever was"" :-P Feb 11 17:44:49 closer* Feb 11 17:47:23 actually I'm pretty sure Linux kernel was developed on BSD Feb 11 17:49:40 and I thought netsplits were a thing of the past... Feb 11 17:51:00 Sc0rpius: why? Feb 11 17:51:50 * slonopotamus fails to order openpandora, they don't ship here Feb 11 17:51:50 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ this is especially funny Feb 11 17:52:24 anyone know anything about making use of the n900's internal earphone? Feb 11 17:52:34 what if Ari gets palm to use MeeGo? o_O Feb 11 17:52:35 that might be interesting Feb 11 17:52:35 yoh piggz :-) Feb 11 17:52:35 MohammadAG: what for. They have their toolkit already. Feb 11 17:52:35 if anything they will use it as a base. Feb 11 17:52:35 and if that's all you care about, well... WebOS already uses a sane userspace. Feb 11 17:52:35 it does? Feb 11 17:52:35 openembedded. Feb 11 17:52:36 javispedro, Nokia had more than one toolkit :P Feb 11 17:52:36 save for lack of X11 and Bluez, it's on sanity level that's good enough for me, and way higher than Android's stupid mess. Feb 11 17:52:36 I hate both tbh Feb 11 17:52:36 what does it use instead of x or bluez? Feb 11 17:52:37 well, dislike Feb 11 17:52:37 obviously we need to push hp to move webOS to wayland and meego :) Feb 11 17:52:37 ruskie: qt for embedded, and something propietary for bt. Feb 11 17:52:37 http://investors.nokia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=107224&p=irol-stockchart ---> still going down Feb 11 17:52:38 What future can you forsee now on maemo/meego if there is no successor for the N900? Feb 11 17:52:38 death Feb 11 17:52:38 most users will be gone, developers will stay Feb 11 17:52:39 javispedro, hmm and you can pop open an xterm? and get root? Feb 11 17:52:39 ruskie: yes.... Feb 11 17:52:39 sane is nice Feb 11 17:52:39 portable is even better Feb 11 17:52:40 mohammed aka mo, what are the ekrnel modules that are tying the n900 to .28 kernel Feb 11 17:52:40 meego will end up on netbooks, the netbooks will shrink to the size of tablets then tablets will shrink to be smartphones and then Meego will thrive. Feb 11 17:52:40 i.e. the closed ones Feb 11 17:52:40 vi_: there are none afaik Feb 11 17:52:40 there are no closed kernel modules Feb 11 17:52:40 javispedro, hmm what exactly is the issue with webos then? Feb 11 17:52:40 ruskie: HP. Since they've rised to power they've already replaced dbus with a propietary ipc system. Feb 11 17:52:40 there must be or why are we still on .28 kernel? Feb 11 17:52:40 vi_: but just because they are open, does not make them compatible with >.28 Feb 11 17:52:40 vi_: Maemo does not work with real Linux Feb 11 17:52:40 only Nokia's modified version Feb 11 17:52:40 MeeGo is not using .28 Feb 11 17:52:40 ok let me ask a different way Feb 11 17:52:41 ruskie: however, recently they've been talking again with webos-internals (basically their equivalent of maemo.org) so there might be hope... Feb 11 17:52:42 hmmm Feb 11 17:52:52 wth was that Feb 11 17:53:08 ruskie: freenode being awesome Feb 11 17:53:09 lo sebsauer Feb 11 17:53:28 sebsauer: what brings you here, you want to join in the rage? Feb 11 17:53:37 why is ubuntu mobile unable to use phone function? Feb 11 17:53:48 javispedro, hmm how about open and documented? Feb 11 17:53:50 lack if gsm chip driver? Feb 11 17:54:02 ubuntu is useless for everything Feb 11 17:54:02 yes Feb 11 17:54:15 vi_: no, just because Ubuntu sucks Feb 11 17:54:25 I don't know why but it's like I knew all along that that Nokia/Meego was DOA since the Intel partnership last year. Feb 11 17:54:42 Nokia didn't died today, it died one year ago. Feb 11 17:54:54 ruskie: it is obviously NOT open.... Feb 11 17:55:23 which is a pity, if they gpl'd their frameworks they would probably be on a compatetive level of openness. Feb 11 17:55:26 javispedro, so basically other than the few GPL components that they might use... nothing else... Feb 11 17:55:34 yeah. Feb 11 17:55:58 envision maemo with the current % of openness and add closed gtk, browser, and hildon to the mix. Feb 11 17:56:08 fun Feb 11 17:56:10 what's left? parts of base distro. Feb 11 17:56:15 piggz: no, I am just lurking and probably pointing ppl at http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 which says MeeGo will continue and Qt will be on there WP7 :) Feb 11 17:56:34 sebsauer: ?? i read qt would _not_ be on wp7 Feb 11 17:56:35 Maemo was so close to be perfect on the N900. If Nokia would have keep improving Maemo instead of starting all again from scratch with Meego, we would have plenty of great Maemo devices to choose from by now. Feb 11 17:56:45 piggz: what source? Feb 11 17:56:45 why did nokia shit on me? Feb 11 17:56:50 I agree Feb 11 17:57:11 and actually Nokia should have ditched Symbian when the N900 was released and release all phones after that with Maemo, even the low-end phones Feb 11 17:57:31 low end phones cant handle maemo Feb 11 17:57:33 how lively here and on #meego... Feb 11 17:57:36 s40 is still great Feb 11 17:57:44 a "reduced" version of Maemo Feb 11 17:57:49 symban makes even the lowest of the low a smartphone Feb 11 17:57:52 for low-end phones Feb 11 17:57:58 Sc0rpius, maemo 5 wasn't ready for mass production Feb 11 17:58:06 why not? Feb 11 17:58:11 it was actually great in the N900 Feb 11 17:58:16 the first release Feb 11 17:58:19 for a subset of people Feb 11 17:58:31 Sc0rpius, the team wasn't big enough, the QA was ridiculously bad, and the amount of stupid bugs was unbearable Feb 11 17:58:45 well too bad, that's called "lack of a good management" Feb 11 17:58:52 crash: and these issues were impossible to fix? Feb 11 17:59:08 beacuse Maemo had the potential, back in 2009, to be today the most powerful (and pretty) mobile OS Feb 11 17:59:09 probably undesired Feb 11 17:59:23 every bug is fixable. Feb 11 17:59:35 you name a bug, and gimme the source code, I'll fix it. Feb 11 17:59:46 the code wasn't open Feb 11 18:00:08 MfE? Closed source. Browser? Closed source (IIRC). Etc. Feb 11 18:00:16 Conversations? Closed source. Feb 11 18:00:29 crashanddie_, I thought only the front end for conversations is Feb 11 18:00:31 Mediaplayer? Closed source. Feb 11 18:00:34 the backend is telepathy isn't it? Feb 11 18:00:40 yeah. Feb 11 18:00:53 as for mfe... that's m$... until they open the protocols it'll remain close and broken Feb 11 18:01:06 erhm... Exchange is an open protocol Feb 11 18:01:13 hahahahahaha Feb 11 18:01:31 crashanddie_: oh really? Feb 11 18:01:39 it isn't? Feb 11 18:01:44 nope Feb 11 18:01:48 I dunno, I had access to some pretty awesome doc in my last company Feb 11 18:01:56 sebsauer: will find source after i find osme pants! Feb 11 18:01:57 Exchange == MAPI Feb 11 18:01:57 uhsf: are you crossposting? Feb 11 18:02:02 the EU did some arm bending Feb 11 18:02:10 crashanddie_: actually no. reverse-engineered Feb 11 18:02:12 but nothing really came out of it... Feb 11 18:02:38 else I would expect tbird to have support Feb 11 18:02:47 there actually is some stuff for mapi in samba4 Feb 11 18:03:31 not sure how well it works... and iirc it's only evolution that has some support Feb 11 18:03:40 Anyway, people who say Maemo was open are just pulling some red cloth over their eyes Feb 11 18:03:48 And drinking the Nokia koolaid Feb 11 18:04:23 sebsauer: http://www.carrypad.com/2011/02/11/meego-qt-and-nokia-feb-11th-2011/ Feb 11 18:07:02 Mediaplayer? Closed source. <-- MafwPlaylist, please? :) Feb 11 18:07:33 piggz: Nothing but speculations and I doubt your source got it. Qt is the bridge that brings there 3 platforms together. Feb 11 18:07:50 but that's imho too Feb 11 18:08:14 we will see Feb 11 18:08:30 sebsauer: i hope you are right, most of my skills ar ein Qt! Feb 11 18:10:27 not having Qt in wp7 is a retarded idea for nokia. It's doing the exact same thing using Qt was supposed to fix Feb 11 18:12:31 Well, I guess some good has come of it Feb 11 18:12:36 Elop fixed Egypt. Feb 11 18:12:44 anybody use webos? Feb 11 18:12:58 nokia should've gone webos :( Feb 11 18:13:04 hp would've played game Feb 11 18:13:44 GAN900, I hope Egypt can fix Elop then Feb 11 18:13:58 mv nokia microkia Feb 11 18:14:16 mv nokia microsoft /dev/null Feb 11 18:14:21 mv Elop /dev/null Feb 11 18:14:54 cat /dev/zero > /dev/Elop Feb 11 18:15:02 dd if=/dev/urandom of=Elop-core Feb 11 18:15:29 eelopacalypse 2011 Feb 11 18:15:40 hahah Feb 11 18:15:41 minus one extra e Feb 11 18:15:45 umm Feb 11 18:16:02 how do I check if dpkg versions are bigger than the other? Feb 11 18:16:58 s/bigger/newer Feb 11 18:17:05 meh, e Feb 11 18:17:12 so the other hilarious thing... meego conference for spring is due to open registration and cfp on monday Feb 11 18:17:13 X-Fade would know, but it's the weekend so ;P Feb 11 18:17:20 was about to suggest a bathroom balance Feb 11 18:17:37 i guess with intel's support and nokia saying "no, we're dropping meego entirely", it's still going on Feb 11 18:17:41 ieatlint, screw Elop. Feb 11 18:17:52 BTW, there will be a FRUCT conference in Moscow this March, where Meego guys are supposed to tlk about Qt programming Feb 11 18:18:27 Guess, everyone will be in pretty funeral mood... Feb 11 18:18:31 RST38h, I'd come, but I'm not used to subzero temperatures :P Feb 11 18:18:47 Mohammad: Middle of March is rather vegetarian 0..+5 Feb 11 18:19:02 Mohammad: Very wet though Feb 11 18:19:45 i can't get the time/money for a trip to moscow to see depressed developers drink vodka Feb 11 18:20:33 Jan 19 17:02:48 dpkg --compare-versions X gt Y <-- found it! Feb 11 18:20:39 plz email me code fr bme Feb 11 18:20:49 what exactly is bme? Feb 11 18:21:27 battery management daemon Feb 11 18:21:38 if you do not know what it is, you do not need it Feb 11 18:22:20 infobot nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Feb 11 18:22:30 by curiosity, what is your back up solution now if your N900 ever dies in the future? buy another N900? Feb 11 18:22:42 it's n900s all the way down Feb 11 18:23:13 * ShadowJK has two N900's Feb 11 18:23:13 i know it is the battery managment entity! however i am asking what tasks does it perform? Feb 11 18:23:27 * ruskie needs to buy one or two as well Feb 11 18:23:30 almost 2 year warranty left on second n900 :) Feb 11 18:23:52 and they are cheap on the local ebay-equiv Feb 11 18:23:53 :) Feb 11 18:24:03 180eur for a new with 2 year warranty Feb 11 18:24:24 get a spare #3 and #4 Feb 11 18:24:34 what HP just announced for WebOS seems like the second best option, at least the hardware is new. but I'm not sure I would be comfortable with the software. Feb 11 18:24:49 ppl got them in various packages with phone companies and are now selling them Feb 11 18:25:00 vi_: why do you ask? Feb 11 18:25:08 * MohammadAG needs another 2 N900s for a project :/ Feb 11 18:26:27 HP should grab the opportunity and open its UI. Feb 11 18:26:35 but is it possible that users will run updates for n900 for long time ? Feb 11 18:26:35 vi_: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME Feb 11 18:26:59 so the n9 is dead, symbian is dead, and meego and qt just got kicked in the balls Feb 11 18:27:11 * trumee finds it pathetic that Palm Pre lacks any sip software Feb 11 18:27:18 Juozapas: why do you want to run updates? I for one always shudder when I have to do Feb 11 18:27:25 and we have intel over here crying, hoping that it didn't burst a testicle so they can still have kids Feb 11 18:27:59 * RST38h idly considers putting together a handset ui Feb 11 18:28:12 DocScrutinizer: i mean bug fixes and all that stuff Feb 11 18:28:37 ieatlint: has there been any official announcement from intel? Feb 11 18:28:45 yes Feb 11 18:28:49 Juozapas: I'd hope there won't be too much bugs coming up in a few months Feb 11 18:28:54 ieatlint: link? Feb 11 18:29:09 "While we are disappointed with Nokias decision, Intel is not blinking on MeeGo" Feb 11 18:29:13 let me find link Feb 11 18:30:10 http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego Feb 11 18:30:29 a google search of that quote yields 64 sources right now Feb 11 18:30:45 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11913 Closed source settings applet replaced by open source clone, thanks to nicolai Feb 11 18:30:46 :)) Feb 11 18:30:47 Bug 11913: cloned notification light applet with proper portrait mode dialog Feb 11 18:30:50 without a platform, meego is useless Feb 11 18:30:53 hopefully, this'll trend Feb 11 18:31:23 Choom: we'll see tablets and netbooks... Feb 11 18:31:32 nokia have just assfucked themselves in teir own asses Feb 11 18:31:39 ieatlint: thanks Feb 11 18:31:54 heh, i'm sure that nokia employees feel more assfucked than anyone else right now Feb 11 18:32:08 :D Feb 11 18:32:19 "oh hey, those huge projects you just spent the last 2 years on? yeah, haha, about that..." Feb 11 18:32:22 ieatlint: I doubt anyone is willing to follow that path, especially with androind to compete against Feb 11 18:32:34 "now go sit around awkwardly and see if we start handing out pink slips" Feb 11 18:32:45 good, can som1 capitalise on this bad feeling and get one of them to steal all the code for maemo and upload it to teh piratebay? Feb 11 18:32:47 ieatlint: actually meego is maybe fine for tablets, but Intel just ignores (like Nokia does) that a OS for a PHONE has quite a different set of major design goals than a tablet OS Feb 11 18:32:50 ieatlint: "wait for your pink slip" Feb 11 18:33:01 vi_: or wikileaks ;) Feb 11 18:33:08 and meego-arm never looked like it's getting into shape IMHO Feb 11 18:33:14 DocScrutinizer: indeed Feb 11 18:33:23 and i could see meego working quite well for a tablet Feb 11 18:33:44 including with qt/qml... which, if the right devs get into it, can really do some awesome stuff Feb 11 18:34:01 much more so than what you'd see on an android platform, or rim, or ipad Feb 11 18:34:42 what is the deal with WebOS. Is it a normal linux OS with just a closed UI? Feb 11 18:35:10 trumee, from what I understand something along those lines... Feb 11 18:35:10 trumee: Linux, no X11, HTML5-based "normal" SDK, SDL based native SDK Feb 11 18:35:48 RST38h: no normal linuxy things like ssh, openvpn, shell scripts, python work fine? Feb 11 18:36:09 there is a terminal with linuxy things Feb 11 18:36:11 I need openvpn to access my email :/ Feb 11 18:36:17 i've heard awesome things about webos Feb 11 18:36:18 "It's not a phone, it's a computer on your palm" - I should have noticed 2 years ago the misconception at Nokia regarding this Feb 11 18:36:21 javispedro explained it before... Feb 11 18:36:35 ieatlint: that is a relief Feb 11 18:36:41 ruskie: ? Feb 11 18:36:57 ruskie: ah, i need to check the log Feb 11 18:36:57 hi again. Feb 11 18:36:57 about webos Feb 11 18:37:53 Nokia as well as whole meego-arm taskforce never realized a phone is NOT just a miniaturized computer Feb 11 18:38:13 javispedro: can qt apps be ported with a recompile over to webos? Feb 11 18:38:16 DocScrutinizer, but but but that's what I want it to be Feb 11 18:38:28 trumee: yes, qt over a sdl framebuffer works Feb 11 18:38:38 trumee: however, hardly "native feel": Feb 11 18:38:40 javispedro: nice Feb 11 18:38:42 s/:/. Feb 11 18:38:52 Doc: you are taking Nokia's marketing department output too seriously Feb 11 18:38:52 javispedro: ah. i see Feb 11 18:39:05 Doc: N97 has been labelled a computer.And n95 ~ Feb 11 18:39:06 too. Feb 11 18:39:20 >. WHYYYYYYYYY :( Feb 11 18:39:59 /nick-remane WP7 WM7 Feb 11 18:40:14 why wm Feb 11 18:40:21 ;]] Feb 11 18:40:21 isn't it WP :p Feb 11 18:40:22 it's windows phone Feb 11 18:40:22 winMo Feb 11 18:40:30 they ditched mobile Feb 11 18:40:30 aah Feb 11 18:40:30 it's Windows Phone Feb 11 18:40:31 ok Feb 11 18:40:37 :-P Feb 11 18:40:38 damn man Feb 11 18:40:39 seriously Feb 11 18:40:40 this sux Feb 11 18:41:13 windows 7 phone series 7 phone Feb 11 18:41:19 7 Feb 11 18:41:19 I don't mind windows -- as a replacement for symbian Feb 11 18:41:20 mailto:elop@nokia.com Feb 11 18:41:33 i hear WP and i think word perfect Feb 11 18:41:41 DocScrutinizer, you mean he actually reads that? Feb 11 18:41:42 Doc: Goin' to mailbomb poor chap? =) Feb 11 18:41:43 i'm not sure if a word perfect phone would be scariar Feb 11 18:41:46 Choom, this isn't #symbian :P Feb 11 18:42:19 KILL KILL KILL Feb 11 18:42:22 DIE DIE DIE Feb 11 18:42:41 MohammadAG: I don't think the move to windows intended to replace the linux platforms either, it's just a casualty Feb 11 18:42:52 I'll happily buy their windows phones Feb 11 18:42:59 if nokia wanted to save a bit, they'd let users install meego on the forthcoming wm7 phones Feb 11 18:43:00 sucks that my n900 is condemned to be one of a kind Feb 11 18:43:10 no, it's not a casualty Feb 11 18:43:18 MeeGo was the #1 priority for Nokia Feb 11 18:43:24 MeeGo and Qt Feb 11 18:43:28 from what I've read it'll just have a severely reduced budget Feb 11 18:43:29 no Feb 11 18:43:37 I guess that a full Linux platform can't never be a #1 priority. Feb 11 18:43:41 MohammadAG: so why were they going to release the N9 with symbian? Feb 11 18:43:57 Choom, they weren't Feb 11 18:44:03 who said the N9 was going to have symbian? Feb 11 18:44:04 ? Feb 11 18:44:06 when it seemed like it was going to happen (because it didn't happen), a microsoft buyout puts a nice end to it. Feb 11 18:44:22 MohammadAG: they did? it's in the product page, I think Feb 11 18:44:31 the N9 wasn't even announced... Feb 11 18:44:35 all the rumours said meego, and the n9 has never been announced Feb 11 18:44:36 ieatlint: [2011-02-11 14:39:45] Nokia: sell your phones with "choose your OS" option! unique in the market Feb 11 18:44:38 so no n9 at all ? Feb 11 18:44:54 DocScrutinizer: you misunderstand, it's more important when *I* say it Feb 11 18:45:17 it's part of my whole arrogant elitist attitude, you see Feb 11 18:45:23 DocScrutinizer: _no_ big device manufacturer is going to do that. if anything, expect such an important change to come from a sw only manufacturer first. Feb 11 18:45:30 then I must be confusing something Feb 11 18:45:32 Devices should be announced on monday, if any Feb 11 18:45:46 on monday, Nokia had qt dev sessions planned =) Feb 11 18:45:55 yes, you're confusing the N9 with the E7 Feb 11 18:46:03 javispedro: you mean like how i can change the bootloader and such on the n900? Feb 11 18:46:09 none will ever do it, you're right Feb 11 18:46:19 I'm confusing it with the N8 Feb 11 18:46:22 ieatlint: you can also change it on some htc devices. Feb 11 18:46:23 just like the google adp1, google nexus one, etc Feb 11 18:46:24 so what. Feb 11 18:46:34 so the point is they are capable Feb 11 18:46:40 #symbian issoooo quiet tonight Feb 11 18:46:43 ieatlint: bootloader is not even 0.1% of what is needed. Feb 11 18:46:44 and by just leaving that hole open, they can satisfy a nerd base Feb 11 18:47:03 eh... it's more than 1%, but yes, i realise the driver support required Feb 11 18:47:22 you don't even need bootloader support to run other OSes. Feb 11 18:47:26 if the main kernel is sane enough. Feb 11 18:47:31 what about the possibility of flashing WP phones to install Meego instead? would the hardware be too different? Feb 11 18:47:32 so, way less than 0.1% :D Feb 11 18:47:36 RST38h: you must be mad, regarding your IRC channels Feb 11 18:47:40 im still getting my n900 meego upgrade right? Feb 11 18:47:42 good point, i'm sure window's is Feb 11 18:47:54 vi_, what upgrade? Feb 11 18:47:58 just like i'm sure that kexec was enabled on android phones Feb 11 18:48:04 you know, what with their sane kernel Feb 11 18:48:05 vi_: you were never meant to Feb 11 18:48:08 meego 1.3 for n900 Feb 11 18:48:13 ieatlint: sane android kernel? :( Feb 11 18:48:18 vi_, where did you get that idea? Feb 11 18:48:24 the n900 is a maemo platform, you can install meego on it, but it was never intended to be supported Feb 11 18:48:34 officially that is Feb 11 18:48:45 Choom: have you installed meego on it? :P Feb 11 18:48:50 yeah but n900 is meego development platform Feb 11 18:49:00 ergo meego works on n900 Feb 11 18:49:00 ieatlint: no, I actually do like maemo Feb 11 18:49:01 it's a reference platform Feb 11 18:49:10 it's not workable.. at all Feb 11 18:49:23 ieatlint, mostly due to meego limitations atm Feb 11 18:49:24 it just gives an X interface and the api Feb 11 18:49:35 dudes, actually there's no such thing like hw tailored to match any particular OS Feb 11 18:49:56 DocScrutinizer: oh, with microsoft there is. Feb 11 18:49:57 it's always just a question of OS supporting the hw Feb 11 18:50:05 DocScrutinizer: read about their crappy sd slot requeriments, and gfx, and .. Feb 11 18:50:10 DocScrutinizer: my keyboard has windows keys Feb 11 18:50:22 meh Feb 11 18:51:00 s/hw/mobile device platform/ Feb 11 18:51:01 not like it matters, the whole thing will be locked down with DRM Feb 11 18:51:22 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831 (windows phne 7 sd slot requeriments) Feb 11 18:51:24 I guess this sits well with the management, who never liked/groked open source Feb 11 18:51:27 no no, MS software is known for being open, free, secure and stable Feb 11 18:51:30 a fun read. Feb 11 18:51:36 they'll keep the management, and lose the engineers Feb 11 18:51:53 flailingmonkey: quite frankly I don't care much about "open source" either Feb 11 18:52:03 to me, open source means poorly documented, in most cases Feb 11 18:52:11 NOK stock down 8% yesterday from rumors, and today has dropped another 14% Feb 11 18:52:17 I do, however, like maemo's "desktop" feel Feb 11 18:52:24 flailingmonkey: indeed... other companies are about to pick up a good number of qualified people Feb 11 18:52:33 if nokia doesn't lay them off, they'll quit Feb 11 18:52:41 it feels like a proper unix system Feb 11 18:53:02 I guess Elop thought that Wall Street would be happy with the announcement, but they can sense desperation without having to know technical details Feb 11 18:53:07 Choom: aaaaha, so windows is a synonym for good complete comprehensive documentation of system internals then? Feb 11 18:53:24 DocScrutinizer: AHAHAHAHA. oh, you just made me smile :) Feb 11 18:53:39 so nokia have lost almost 25% of their market value in 2 days? Feb 11 18:53:50 anyone who thinks that close source leads to better documentation is simply ignorant of reality Feb 11 18:53:50 vi_: also alienated their customer base and employees. Feb 11 18:53:58 * vi_ in unreal tournament announcer voice Feb 11 18:54:08 HOLY SHIT! Feb 11 18:54:13 vi_: closer to 20%, but slightly under Feb 11 18:54:19 DocScrutinizer: no, but unless you are developing drivers or debuggers, that's unlikely to affect you Feb 11 18:54:28 i'm pretty sure the 14% is 14% of the 92% remaining yesterday. apparently $8 billion lost in market value though Feb 11 18:54:40 mhm Feb 11 18:54:54 8bn Feb 11 18:55:00 holy fucking ass Feb 11 18:55:06 Choom: so maybe the fee to get development tools for WP7 is, then Feb 11 18:55:08 i still expected them to go with qtopia Feb 11 18:55:10 that is more money than scotland Feb 11 18:55:18 :( Feb 11 18:55:40 the cancer from redmond has metastasized again Feb 11 18:55:52 DocScrutinizer: microsoft has their own development tools Feb 11 18:56:04 Choom: orly? Feb 11 18:56:06 I understand why people associate open source with poor documentation. you can actually see whether the docs are poor. with proprietary often times you have to pay for the "docs" and so assume you'd get something worth while Feb 11 18:56:10 and there's a free / express version of them if you don't feel like paying for more Feb 11 18:56:25 not for wp7 Feb 11 18:56:31 =( Feb 11 18:56:41 WP7: go away, you're not loved here. Feb 11 18:57:15 also, anyone can write an open source program. and most people don't like documenting. but that doesn't lead to closed source projects magically getting good docs Feb 11 18:57:23 Choom: now THAT'S REALLy GREAT! I get a express/light/crippled version for free. Incredibly generous Feb 11 18:57:27 Hi there Feb 11 18:57:55 apparently they will make the WP7 dev tools free, something they announced Feb 11 18:58:03 http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2011/02/11/google-makes-job-offer-to-nokia-engineers Feb 11 18:58:11 very smart Feb 11 18:58:20 still I don't give a fsck yet on redmond crap Feb 11 18:58:31 they couldn't even pay me to use it Feb 11 18:58:50 agreed Feb 11 18:59:23 doing apt-get source kernel in the scratchbox environment what kernel I'll get? Feb 11 18:59:35 If I want the latest n900 kernel, Feb 11 18:59:40 deno: the good one. Feb 11 18:59:40 mmm, symbian sdk was free. so what. Feb 11 18:59:42 the thing about the n900 to me is that I can, in many cases, simply cross-compile software and run it on my phone Feb 11 18:59:57 I've been thru with M$ the very moment I first installed DrDOS insted of their crappy MSDOS Feb 11 18:59:58 that's the only loss windows represents for me Feb 11 19:00:08 any clue why trying to install Pidgin results in my OS2008 installer saying that libhildon-extras1 is not available? Feb 11 19:00:10 some people are like "well WP7 sounds good, whats wrong with that?" the real fundamental change is that Nokia will stop its (very grudgingly made) progress towards open source, and be quickly back in its comfortable proprietary womb Feb 11 19:00:10 in any case my phone isn't going anywhere any time soon Feb 11 19:00:11 javispedro, but I'm looking for the kernel that provides both the overclocking and h-e-n support Feb 11 19:00:50 then get powerkernel 46 bro Feb 11 19:00:59 'bro' Feb 11 19:01:10 vi_, are you speaking with me? Feb 11 19:03:01 deno: yes, kernel-power is the one for you Feb 11 19:04:47 DocScrutinizer, do you know where can I get it? Feb 11 19:05:49 I m looking in the maemo packages Feb 11 19:05:56 Who played Snake on Youtube? :) Feb 11 19:06:10 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/kernel-power-flasher/2.6.28-maemo46/ Feb 11 19:06:18 it should be this Feb 11 19:07:07 DocScrutinizer: u ever played snake on youtube? Feb 11 19:07:48 sorry, doesn't parse Feb 11 19:09:04 I played snake on Nokia 6210, and I played back music videos from youtube on N900 Feb 11 19:10:35 there are 3 files: Feb 11 19:10:36 2e832a595d6c7150d44e85e7db233971 1066 kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46.dsc Feb 11 19:10:36 6324494f7d2bc81269af681e71b18fd2 67389527 kernel-power_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz Feb 11 19:10:37 a38be528ca38ed86259410a2bca8f8c3 3193461 kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo46.diff.gz Feb 11 19:11:10 the orig is the one unmodified right? Feb 11 19:11:19 just do dpkg-source -x *.dsc Feb 11 19:11:22 is there no the original source? Feb 11 19:11:28 uhm Feb 11 19:11:39 so the only important file is the .dsc? Feb 11 19:12:00 read it and you will understand what it is. Feb 11 19:12:10 kk Feb 11 19:12:14 thanks :) Feb 11 19:12:27 remember, yahoo partnered with microsoft and it saved them.. i'm sure nokia made the right choice Feb 11 19:12:36 DocScrutinizer: youtube has a easter egg where you can play Snake on their website Feb 11 19:12:40 and palm, they saved palm too! Feb 11 19:12:42 is like the description Feb 11 19:12:57 yahoo saved microsoft search Feb 11 19:13:15 not the other way around Feb 11 19:13:26 javispedro: you mean hp? Feb 11 19:13:29 flailingmonkey: wrong Feb 11 19:13:34 yahoo uses bing Feb 11 19:13:43 they backend queries to it Feb 11 19:14:15 aren't you amazed by the extreme stupidity of Nokia's leaders? I mean 15% market shares drop in a few hours, I don't know anything about market shares, but even I could've predicted this easily. why so much stupidity is beyond my understanding. Feb 11 19:14:36 ieatlint: I hoped you were being ironic. Feb 11 19:15:02 can the n900 be 'locked'? i see people writing the network name in auctions Feb 11 19:15:07 javispedro: i'm lying next to a yahoo sysop... i'm not.. Feb 11 19:15:29 nokia just took a page from their book Feb 11 19:15:36 hardly Feb 11 19:15:43 including the severely demoralize all your workers and plan random layoffs Feb 11 19:16:12 yesterday they lost 8%, from the rumors Feb 11 19:16:21 everytime some company has an slowly outdating but still big market share operating system, Feb 11 19:16:36 the choice of using whatever crap M$ has at that moment appears Feb 11 19:16:46 apple didn't do it, look where they are. Feb 11 19:16:53 palm did it. went bankrupt. Feb 11 19:16:57 bought by hp. Feb 11 19:17:33 palm made their own stuff, and linux based at that Feb 11 19:17:35 pupnik: yes Feb 11 19:17:58 ieatlint: you're failing at palm story :) Feb 11 19:17:58 ieatlint: only after years of using Windows Mobile for most of their devices instead of PalmOS Feb 11 19:18:11 I do have to applaud microsoft. a very cunning strike from them Feb 11 19:18:13 ieatlint: they had like 70% of smartphone market share. Feb 11 19:18:19 ieatlint: now they're battling for the 1% Feb 11 19:18:22 haha, ok, i happily blinded myself to that then Feb 11 19:18:40 will the apt-get source kernel-power command give me the latest power kernel 46 ? Feb 11 19:18:45 ieatlint: understandable, the Windows Mobile Treos were a nightmare most of us don't want to remember. Feb 11 19:18:59 does nothing against their competitors who are actually in the market though. Apple must be ecstatic Feb 11 19:19:02 and I predict that in two years Nokia will be a shadow of what it is now. Feb 11 19:19:06 I remember Microsoft tried to prevent us from having THE INTERNET Feb 11 19:19:17 in fact, it is already a shadow of what is was yesterday, considering the layoffs and cuts in R&D spending Feb 11 19:19:44 yup Feb 11 19:19:59 if R&D doesn't generate ROI then it's a waste Feb 11 19:20:13 from being one of the largest R&D budgets in the world, to a dying noname microsoft hardware-making subsidiary Feb 11 19:20:24 depends on the R&D Feb 11 19:20:25 doing only applied research, and no pure research, ensures that you will always be catching up Feb 11 19:20:46 korhojoa: exactly how is R&D which doesn't generate returns, a good investment? Feb 11 19:21:07 pupnik: by generated long-term returns Feb 11 19:21:12 *generating Feb 11 19:21:33 well, if it generates a brand or assists people outside of your business Feb 11 19:22:09 pupnik: my current project is years away from turning into something profitable. all the peripheral research into raw technologies will basically define how a number of future computing subsystems will be built. Feb 11 19:22:50 pupnik: like IBM doing the watson thinfg Feb 11 19:22:51 long-term R&D is never a bad thing, so long as your short term isn't fucked :) Feb 11 19:22:53 thing Feb 11 19:23:03 javispedro: korhojoa: that's exactly why Nokia should happily afford whatever lawyers' fees they think it might take, to open up maemo source Feb 11 19:23:26 DocScrutinizer: they might as well at this point. they'll have no use for it Feb 11 19:23:37 yeah, but they cut meego's r&d by about 75% Feb 11 19:23:42 DocScrutinizer: good luck asking Microsoft to open the source of legacy products from one of the companies they just adquired. Feb 11 19:24:08 haha :-S Feb 11 19:24:11 right Feb 11 19:24:28 javispedro: but this deal is the best of both worlds. they basically "own" Nokia, but without having the capital outlays of buying them out Feb 11 19:24:36 now that Nokia's dead, my main concern is about the future of open mobile devices. what company could make any interesting hardware in a foreseable future? Feb 11 19:24:42 at least until Nokia stock is in the pennies Feb 11 19:24:48 flailingmonkey: I hope the EU comission sees through it =) Feb 11 19:25:02 they would probably have something to say to an outright buyout. Feb 11 19:25:08 DocScrutinizer: hm. Feb 11 19:25:10 uhsf: I think there is space now for a new entry to the industry actually Feb 11 19:25:20 hi there Feb 11 19:25:53 uhsf: especially with the soon to be available Nokians (engineers, the management will stick around, happy to return to purely proprietary development) Feb 11 19:26:35 uhsf: if you're Linux-related hacker, then maybe GTA04 will be the way to go :) Feb 11 19:26:51 "long term R&D is never a bad thing" <<< - pay MEEEE! i'm an ARTIST!!! Feb 11 19:28:02 dos1: i had a Neo FreeRunner but changed it for a N900, i don't have much interest in GTA04 Feb 11 19:28:56 for example, HP hardware really doesn't cut it either, I think it's Sony that should lighten up and bring Meego to life Feb 11 19:29:00 future Nokia phones are as suited for open mobile linux based OS, as they were before they switched to WP7 Feb 11 19:29:05 hey, now they have no excuses for when Nokia WP7 phone doesn't integrate properly with Active Directory, Exchange, and Windows syncing Feb 11 19:29:07 lol Feb 11 19:29:13 Nokia shares: -18% !!! Feb 11 19:29:30 flailingmonkey: pfft. microsoft does not know how to do a proper exchange client either. Feb 11 19:29:32 -15.7% here Feb 11 19:29:42 http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AMSFT%2C+NYSE%3ANOK%2C+ Feb 11 19:29:53 javispedro: I said no excuses. I fully expect it to fail in the most agonizing ways Feb 11 19:30:31 I hope nokia will fail :) sorry Feb 11 19:30:48 then they will pleased to return to meego Feb 11 19:30:49 may I join and hope that both will fail? Feb 11 19:31:10 Windows should be just on pc's... not on phones Feb 11 19:31:41 federico2: Both? U mean meego too? Feb 11 19:31:55 nokia and m$ Feb 11 19:31:58 ah Feb 11 19:32:09 MS wont fail Feb 11 19:32:12 at least, they are already failed Feb 11 19:32:17 Elop is one ugly ugly guy Feb 11 19:32:27 the corrupt US government has a part in this Feb 11 19:32:36 they were the ones that pushed software patents on the planet Feb 11 19:32:38 pupnik:And the UN. Do not forget the UN Feb 11 19:32:44 software patents Feb 11 19:32:53 tbh I think I'm with pupnik on this conspiracy theory Feb 11 19:32:56 guys.... Feb 11 19:33:13 Another Ex-Microsoft appointed as Nokia’s North American President. Feb 11 19:33:15 javispedro: YOu mean, you will believe intoUS government overthe Tentacled One??? Feb 11 19:33:40 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/mpeg_la_calls_for_patents_related_to_google_open_source_codec/ Feb 11 19:33:45 the tentacled one is to blame! Feb 11 19:33:46 ok RST38h do you mean it is not an entity? - that's a fair comment Feb 11 19:34:01 http://mynokiablog.com/2011/02/11/another-ex-microsoft-appointed-as-nokias-north-american-president/ Feb 11 19:34:04 pupnik, more than corrupt, I'd say it's built to work in that way. The bigger a company is the more lobbying can do Feb 11 19:34:15 DocScrutinizer is right, the phones and the chips in them will be just as useful running an open source mobile OS as WP7. but a lot of work goes into ironing out the kinks Feb 11 19:34:51 which means you never get a N900-like thing. Feb 11 19:34:59 unless you can counter the previous 1000 experiences. Feb 11 19:35:33 :( Feb 11 19:35:43 * WP7 FAILS! Feb 11 19:35:48 * WP7 should die! Feb 11 19:35:49 hehehe Feb 11 19:36:06 Speaking at the launch of the partnership, Nokia's chief executive Stephen Elop revealed that there would be "substantial" job losses as a result of the tie-up. Feb 11 19:36:20 * WP7 < iPhone Feb 11 19:36:23 ok, enough of watching the titantic head slowly towards the iceberg, i'm going to go get food Feb 11 19:36:26 * WP7 iOS * Feb 11 19:36:33 * WP7 < RIM !!!!! Feb 11 19:36:40 well if hardware is a commodity, can we make a company that sells that plus a working linux OS? Feb 11 19:36:41 ios is cisco, and it always will be Feb 11 19:36:43 hell, even BB has a better OS :/ Feb 11 19:36:58 pupnik: you can, go ahead:) Feb 11 19:37:02 pupnik: many windows mobile 6 devices can run android. Feb 11 19:37:23 well... Feb 11 19:37:27 seems to be right Feb 11 19:37:29 pupnik: so it should be possible, my hd2 can run meego and android and ubuntu as well as it's native wm6 or wp7. Feb 11 19:37:32 end of the world = 2012 :p Feb 11 19:37:55 EdLin: the reason for that is that hd2=hd7=some other phone I forgot Feb 11 19:38:04 EdLin: they just swap the operating system and resell it to you for full price. Feb 11 19:38:14 javispedro: hd2 = about any htc device made after it Feb 11 19:38:33 for now. Feb 11 19:38:39 javispedro: hd2 = desire and n1 fairly exactly. Feb 11 19:38:53 if anyone at Nokia really thinks they will be able to "drive and define" the future of Windows Phone, they are completely delusional Feb 11 19:39:02 javispedro: though the best kernels are evo-based Feb 11 19:39:56 lol, Elop tries to counted the "two turkeys don't make an eagle" comment with "Or this: Two bicycle makers, from Dayton Ohio, one day decided to fly." Feb 11 19:39:59 I also have an n810, so I do belong here. ;-) Feb 11 19:40:11 they certainly must be flying, because they are clearly HIGH off their asses Feb 11 19:42:35 flailingmonkey: studying the history of Palm should show that partnering with a rival, especially Redmond, for your OS is a kiss of death. But elop is a microsoftie himself, who's presided over the destruction of some other companies like Macromedia, so he probably doesn't care about Nokia's long-term interests. Feb 11 19:43:50 EdLin: indeed. history shows very clearly how this "strategic partnership" will work out. the investors don't need to know anything about the technical issues, they have seen this happen before Feb 11 19:44:19 microsoft is known to eat it's strategic partners for lunch. ;-) Feb 11 19:45:05 from the open letter Elop and Ballmer on nokia conversations, the only thing Nokia is "getting" is "Microsoft development tools will be used to create applications to run on Nokia Windows Phones, allowing developers to easily leverage the ecosystem’s global reach. " Feb 11 19:45:09 ugh Feb 11 19:46:41 that is gay, evveryone knows vim is the only sdk you will ever need Feb 11 19:47:11 'global reich' is more like it Feb 11 19:47:26 javispedro, mind helping out with git? :) Feb 11 19:47:34 reducto ad hitlerum much? Feb 11 19:47:36 MohammadAG: what's the problem? Feb 11 19:47:38 vi_: vim? only the original vi(1) is worth using, not recognizing your terminal's arrow keys, ftw! Feb 11 19:47:48 lol Feb 11 19:48:19 MohammadAG: git makes my brain hurt sometimes Feb 11 19:48:43 trading linux for wp7 IS like trading vim for a bowling pin Feb 11 19:49:12 :D Feb 11 19:49:21 javispedro, I need to fix https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11868 Feb 11 19:49:24 Bug 11868: Pull tinymail sources into gitorious.org/community-ssu Feb 11 19:50:07 I pulled tinymail, then pushed it to the CSSU repo Feb 11 19:50:08 although I recall I did a git push origin/tinymail-1-2 master, it pushed the main branch to master Feb 11 19:50:15 uh.. Feb 11 19:50:19 that is hard (TM) Feb 11 19:50:32 I guess that you want there is what git calls to cherry-pic Feb 11 19:50:33 k Feb 11 19:50:52 I want origin/tinymail-1-2 as master Feb 11 19:51:06 i love a lot of things about git. but moving changes around often leads to my ass getting kicked by git Feb 11 19:51:09 :( Feb 11 19:54:00 * WP7 killed MeeGo && Symbian Feb 11 19:54:19 wordperfect 7 Feb 11 19:54:48 MohammadAG: ah, so you didn't work on any SSU changes for tinymail. you're starting afresh? Feb 11 19:54:49 * SpeedEvil stabs WP7. Feb 11 19:55:14 I think it would be a great time to reunite Maemo and Meego communities into one, to join forces and produce the best open mobile platform, and under a better name by the occasion. Feb 11 19:55:26 MohammadAG: then you can rename local branches with -m, and push it to some other remote Feb 11 19:55:39 s/-m/git branch -m Feb 11 19:55:48 moving Meego from their awesome high-end mobile OS to, "a learning, experimental blah blah blah" IS the kiss of death for Nokia dev on Meego Handset Feb 11 19:56:13 * WindowsPhone7 rapes MeeGo Feb 11 19:56:19 uhsf: I think you could be right. Feb 11 19:57:06 WindowsPhone7: thats great. Feb 11 19:57:07 uhsf: yeah, unfortunately maemo is in a more useable state, but is burdened by closed code. Feb 11 19:57:47 There has been a fair amount of progress at last at understanding what needs to be done tomake replacement blobs though. Feb 11 20:00:47 Is there a point to keep at maemo? Why not join forces with meego? Feb 11 20:02:58 Per_n900: because meego is not out yet Feb 11 20:03:02 (usable meego) Feb 11 20:04:25 LOL! Nokia stocks are on -19% Feb 11 20:04:26 xD Feb 11 20:04:47 http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:NOK ? says -16% Feb 11 20:04:58 frals, what is your plans after nokia contract is finished? Feb 11 20:04:59 http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AMSFT%2C+NYSE%3ANOK%2C+ Feb 11 20:05:04 "Some have said that I'm Microsoft's Trojan horse. That's silly- I'm Canadian, duh!" Feb 11 20:06:04 MohammadAG what is tinymail? any announcements screenshots? Feb 11 20:06:11 I feel another "steve jobs / bill gates" comic is coming..... Feb 11 20:06:40 frals is working for nokia? Feb 11 20:06:53 i feel sorry for the ones that works @ nokia Feb 11 20:07:15 Microsoft planned this whole thing from the very beginning Feb 11 20:07:22 Seriously, can anyone explain why we should not join forces with meego? Feb 11 20:07:31 Per_n900: I told ou... Feb 11 20:07:39 [21:01] Per_n900: because meego is not out yet [21:01] (usable meego) Feb 11 20:07:40 i would have expected most people here moving to meego and let maemo die as it's not supported by anyone anymore. but the thing is not a single meego device was ever released, so all that's left are Nxxx maemo users questioning about the future of open mobile platform Feb 11 20:07:40 check http://nokia.com stupid assholes want to celebrate Feb 11 20:07:53 ZogG, it's the backend for modest, nothing new Feb 11 20:08:18 oh i thought it's instead of it Feb 11 20:08:21 Windowsphone7: that is not what I asked. Feb 11 20:08:37 Im not a dev.. so dont ask me :p Feb 11 20:08:45 I'm just a end user Feb 11 20:09:03 <_trine> hey you're all going windows :P Feb 11 20:09:06 though I rly love to tweak all stuff Feb 11 20:09:14 _trine: :DD Feb 11 20:09:27 Per_n900, no one's stopping you from doing that Feb 11 20:09:36 most of the users here are on #meego Feb 11 20:09:44 <_trine> nokia must have gone completely mad Feb 11 20:09:57 i think it shouldn't be considered as trolling here to say that meego is the one to look forward to. unless one already has a Nxxx device there is absolutely no point in maemo anymore Feb 11 20:10:08 MohammadAG: what did you do :( Feb 11 20:10:38 <_trine> its wasnt a burning oil rig they jumped off it must have been a transatlantic airliner Feb 11 20:11:00 MohammadAG: I know, but why is maemo the better choice? Its just a question. Feb 11 20:11:08 javispedro, nothing, yet :P Feb 11 20:11:13 javispedro, trying out gtk Feb 11 20:11:15 Maemo has better multitasking if you aks me Feb 11 20:11:17 ask* Feb 11 20:11:23 Per_n900, Maemo in a working state. MeeGo is not. ;-) Feb 11 20:11:27 now. of course. Feb 11 20:11:36 WindowsPhone7, that's just a UI Feb 11 20:11:39 MohammadAG: I mean by telling about #meego here =) Feb 11 20:11:48 MohammadAG: UI is important if u ask me Feb 11 20:11:49 uhsf: maemo is supported Feb 11 20:11:52 I'd rant about RPM vs deb, but meh Feb 11 20:12:20 I should rant about MeeGo vs Android vs iOS vs WP7 Feb 11 20:12:31 Meego, what Meego? Feb 11 20:12:41 vs RIM Feb 11 20:12:42 WindowsPhone7, port hildon, UI fixed Feb 11 20:12:54 javispedro, ha Feb 11 20:12:54 today's news is a big hurt for Meego, but it still represents the best hope for an open mobile OS with Intel and some others. such a big hurt that I suggest changing Meego's name to wash up it's tainted Nokian origins Feb 11 20:12:55 MohammadAG: there was some project going on Feb 11 20:13:05 porting hildon to meego Feb 11 20:13:08 afaik Feb 11 20:13:12 I know Feb 11 20:13:15 Cordia Feb 11 20:13:15 uhsf: meego was a intel trademark, so that would be stupid. Feb 11 20:13:49 I suggest you stop trolling #meego Feb 11 20:14:47 Many nokia employees aren't happy with the decition, maybe they should do the same like the people in egypt ^^ Feb 11 20:15:00 Nokia should hire Mubarak? Feb 11 20:15:12 I heard he's looking for a new job. Feb 11 20:15:35 no, they should stop working and stuff Feb 11 20:15:50 no, they should send Elop to company Mubarak Feb 11 20:15:52 wasn't Intel's project called Moblin before it got renamed to Meego when it merged with Nokia's stuff? Feb 11 20:16:14 javispedro: What a wonderful idea! Feb 11 20:16:35 pupnik: even if maemo still has some sort of support, we have to admit maemo is dying along with Nxxx devices as there are no successors in sight Feb 11 20:16:44 villager: meego was meant to be a merge of moblin and maemo Feb 11 20:16:47 uhsf: by that logic, meego is dying. Feb 11 20:16:48 uhsf: you are dying too Feb 11 20:17:09 hey RST38h =) Feb 11 20:17:19 skython: yeah that's what I was saying? Feb 11 20:17:29 uhsf: you understand now why that's senseless trolling? Feb 11 20:17:38 javispedro: Make Mubarak head of developers' relations Feb 11 20:17:38 you convey no information Feb 11 20:17:44 heh Feb 11 20:17:53 yeah, but it's not quite moblin, it's not just a rename Feb 11 20:18:18 he would probably do it better than whoever Microsoft would put there. Feb 11 20:18:31 at least Mubarak would offer us some CONTINUITY... Feb 11 20:18:35 skython: ok, I can admit poor wording Feb 11 20:18:35 lol Feb 11 20:18:53 javispedro: He would at least notbe spewing marketing garbage at us Feb 11 20:19:31 my point is meego is "less" dying than maemo, because it still has Intel and others to hope for new devices. after my N900 dies, maemo is going nowhere 'cause i can't run it on any hardware, that's no trolling, just facts Feb 11 20:19:42 javispedro: Just glare evilly Feb 11 20:19:46 but point is anyway... if the nokia part is gone, then meego can perhaps go back to being moblin Feb 11 20:19:55 moblin was a better name Feb 11 20:20:38 let's ask the Anonymous guys to ddos nokia.com Feb 11 20:20:52 I hate to be a schmuck@but I kind of agree with uhsf :) Feb 11 20:20:57 yet another marvelous idea. Feb 11 20:21:00 how is the hardware support atm for meego on the n900 ? are the closed source modules from nokia working there already? Feb 11 20:21:10 what is the point?they will disconnect nokia.com and make it point to microsoft.com pretty soon now=) Feb 11 20:21:33 ;]] Feb 11 20:22:24 microsoft.com/hardware ;) Feb 11 20:22:39 microsoft.com/weego Feb 11 20:22:57 maybe a mouse/keyboard manufacturer is what Nokia expects to be in two year. Feb 11 20:22:58 s. Feb 11 20:23:22 javispedro, will they run linux? Feb 11 20:23:32 or will the mice run symbian and run out of memory Feb 11 20:23:44 they will not be compatible with linux. Feb 11 20:23:52 -14.89% Feb 11 20:23:53 whatever they run is unimportant. Feb 11 20:23:59 -17,8 over here Feb 11 20:24:24 -9000 here Feb 11 20:24:24 doesn't look like investors agree with the new ceo Feb 11 20:24:35 RST38h, who does? Feb 11 20:24:35 Mohammad: that was a body count. Feb 11 20:24:36 I hope the guys from Myriad will release their stuff soon... So we can at least enjoy sme Android apps :( Feb 11 20:25:24 If I was CEO I would've announced MeeGo devices, doubled the pay so devs work double time, release the device next month max Feb 11 20:25:41 Which is why you are not a CEO Feb 11 20:25:43 MohammadAG for president! Feb 11 20:25:54 CEOs do not operate in such concrete terms =) Feb 11 20:25:56 hehe Feb 11 20:26:00 i vote yes Feb 11 20:26:11 well, Nokia got into an impossible situation Feb 11 20:26:25 that's how a platform on fire fixes itself, not by spending $4b+ on R&D that results in WP7, which was R&D'd by Microsoft Feb 11 20:26:28 http://investors.nokia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=107224&p=irol-stockchart Feb 11 20:26:38 Instead, they cultivate an ecosystem, ponder paradigms, and raise internal competition Feb 11 20:26:41 official nokia tickets there Feb 11 20:27:11 guys I still cant get this to work on my N900 it says media format not supported. Feb 11 20:27:12 http://www.rapee3.com/tv/aleslah.php Feb 11 20:27:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg Feb 11 20:27:30 this just makes me cry :( Feb 11 20:27:46 I have done everything. installed codecs Feb 11 20:28:14 let's just thumb down that video Feb 11 20:28:15 * _trine installs nice picture of Bill on his N900 Feb 11 20:28:45 Bill? Feb 11 20:28:47 Bill Gates? :p Feb 11 20:29:08 whos bill anyway :p Feb 11 20:29:22 <_trine> this story must have come from the 'you cant make it up department' Feb 11 20:30:10 I wouldn't worry about competition if I were Nokia Feb 11 20:30:10 trying to catch up when you're last isn't hard Feb 11 20:31:32 <_trine> if someone had have suggested that the new nokia OS was going to be windows 7 last week they would have been carting you off to the lunatic asylum Feb 11 20:31:51 peoplesuggested that before Feb 11 20:32:14 <_trine> but as they say a week ia a long time in politics Feb 11 20:32:29 <_trine> /ia/is Feb 11 20:32:44 HAHAHHAHHA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaETGNpvpNM Feb 11 20:32:46 :D Feb 11 20:32:48 lol reactions Feb 11 20:32:54 Nokia workers mourn death of Symbian, thousands walk out Feb 11 20:33:03 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-workers-mourn-death-of-symbian-thousands-walk-out/ Feb 11 20:33:36 seems that the finland gov. already says they're going to intervene Feb 11 20:34:12 http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/02/pekkarinen_government_help_for_nokia_job_cuts_2357245.html Feb 11 20:34:35 javispedro: will they convict Elop of crimes against the state and execute him? Do finns execute foreign spies? =) Feb 11 20:34:48 Or maybe they will swap him for Linus Torvalds? =) Feb 11 20:35:13 bend him over! Feb 11 20:35:45 RST38h: they're just going to name him a national hero and erect some statues Feb 11 20:37:20 uh... i reflashed my new N810. before reflashing, my Power button gave options such as "Reboot" and "Soft off", now there's no trace of those. also, now when the screen is off the LED flashes, it didn't do that before. how come? O.o Feb 11 20:37:24 new=used Feb 11 20:38:02 hmm Feb 11 20:38:20 they will no longer have to worry about those pesky new technologies Feb 11 20:38:49 so, if Nokia were to drop MeeGo Handset, would we get an actual rpm/zypper-based MeeGo phone from someone else? Feb 11 20:38:53 yea, nobody ever got fired for buying into microsoft products! Feb 11 20:39:04 * Dhraakellian , being an openSUSE user, would lik that Feb 11 20:39:28 "No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft" ...except possibly Elop, we hope Feb 11 20:39:33 RST38h: remember, elop is canadian, not american.. you can't blame us for this one Feb 11 20:39:46 ieatlint: ⁵! Feb 11 20:39:59 ieatlint: Wait, whom should I blame? Americans or Canadians? Feb 11 20:40:06 technically, canada is in america =) Feb 11 20:40:12 "blame canada"? Feb 11 20:40:16 canadians, always canadians Feb 11 20:40:24 quebec if possible Feb 11 20:40:38 * RST38h considers, then blames damned Anglosaxons for all the evil Feb 11 20:41:07 you can blame us for meego though, we do have intel Feb 11 20:41:10 Americans, Canadians, who cares Feb 11 20:41:30 i suspect we'll have a better idea on monday of how dead meego is Feb 11 20:41:39 Idiocy has no citizenship, race, or gender Feb 11 20:42:09 ieatlint: why? Feb 11 20:42:23 As I said, one can just as well throw together a completely free mobile apps pack in QML/QtQuick Feb 11 20:42:24 RST38h: but it has wealth. economic wealth. Feb 11 20:42:35 javispedro: because that's when the spring meego conference was due to open its registration and cfp Feb 11 20:42:39 javispedro: Sometimes. More often, it is just idiocy. Feb 11 20:43:14 http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=6802 Feb 11 20:43:22 Will take 3-4 months. Won't be as extensive as anything from Nokia, but at least will be easier to get around and fix bugs Feb 11 20:44:00 sadly, estimating it would take only 3-4 months is probably why we're on doomsday today. Feb 11 20:44:12 javispedro: nope Feb 11 20:44:36 javispedro: Doing this for free on your own time, without several layers of management is somewhat different from what Meego has Feb 11 20:45:00 ok. Feb 11 20:45:02 javispedro: First of all, you can do it ad hoc, then quickly discuss the designs and change them on the fly Feb 11 20:45:15 javispedro: No design documents, no guidelines, no ux people Feb 11 20:45:31 javispedro: Yes, it will be way less professional. But faster. Feb 11 20:45:34 good point. Feb 11 20:45:57 javispedro: Secondly, I suggest choosing something like QML from the start. Feb 11 20:46:08 javispedro: It allows prototyping UI quickly Feb 11 20:46:31 * javispedro is at this point more sold at anya (webos ui framework) than qml Feb 11 20:46:54 javispedro: As we already know what core apps are needed (address book, messaging view, mail view, calendar, settings), there is no need to spend time defining this part Feb 11 20:47:01 enya Feb 11 20:47:10 yep Feb 11 20:47:44 javispedro: Thirdly, we can drop all the evil parts, such as Tracker and connect to some lighter backends instead Feb 11 20:48:13 javispedro: preferably with DBus, basically making various UI elements do dbus calls and show results Feb 11 20:48:46 javispedro: again, won't be as solid as Maemo/Meego stuff, but way faster to implement Feb 11 20:48:53 Yeah. Feb 11 20:48:56 However. Feb 11 20:49:01 I think that defining things would be actually helpful, but shouldn't block putting together rough/usable first drafts either Feb 11 20:49:05 See FHS Feb 11 20:49:07 javispedro: And there won't be core OS to take care about, this can run on any Linux distro Feb 11 20:49:11 /OpenMoko. Feb 11 20:49:16 or GPE Feb 11 20:49:27 Well,GPE has been a success of sorts Feb 11 20:50:08 OpenMoko was a clusterfuck due to mismanagement and general fanaticism of developers (see our friend PaulFertser answering calls from emacs on his mokophone) Feb 11 20:50:19 http://images.4chan.org/g/src/1297452123406.png Feb 11 20:50:48 If you are doing this with the main goal of FINISHING and SELLING or at least promoting the end result, you will have more chance of success Feb 11 20:51:53 not sure. Feb 11 20:52:03 I've seen one-man suites before, and they all usually suck. Feb 11 20:52:07 The OM problem wasn't the devs. It was themanagment. Feb 11 20:52:15 RST38h: I like the part that it will run on any distro. Feb 11 20:52:17 javispedro: so you do not make it like those suites Feb 11 20:52:22 They made various poor calls throughout. Feb 11 20:52:32 javispedro: you model it on Maemo5 to begin with Feb 11 20:52:53 that might be a good plan. Feb 11 20:53:12 reusing maemo's ui basically. Feb 11 20:53:17 javispedro: it may not be ideal, but it is perfectly usable in terms of layout Feb 11 20:53:34 your UI elements will comefrom QtQuick components, you won;t be drawing your own Feb 11 20:55:12 Hell, I have just done about 1/3 of this job. In PHP/HTML (!) Feb 11 20:55:27 Alone, in about 1 week, between other jobs Feb 11 20:55:38 I have to agree that PIM stuff doesn't seem horribly hard Feb 11 20:55:41 So it cannot be all that bad Feb 11 20:55:42 also Feb 11 20:55:51 the code for the Pilot PIM applications is basically leaked, Feb 11 20:56:00 and it's pure C, über fast engine. Feb 11 20:56:13 yea,but you will probably needmore modern backend Feb 11 20:56:21 which I always wanted to use as a base for something =) Feb 11 20:56:35 something built on SQL,with sqlite as default storage + option to use remote sql server Feb 11 20:59:18 javispedro: But something *simple*, as there are no resources to build another sandcastle like Tracker Feb 11 20:59:32 tracker was not built though Feb 11 20:59:34 it was reused Feb 11 21:01:05 servicing a sandcastle also takes time =) Feb 11 21:01:27 RST38h: And causes abrasion to sensitive regions. Feb 11 21:02:06 COnstant abrasion, yes, I am scratching all over Feb 11 21:02:49 i like RST38h's comments this evening Feb 11 21:05:05 * javispedro used to use GarnetVM as PIM on the N810 Feb 11 21:05:12 urgh... Feb 11 21:05:17 so there's some levels of suckiness I'm willing to accept Feb 11 21:05:18 =9 Feb 11 21:06:11 Palm's core apps were pretty well thought out Feb 11 21:06:25 But still, using that 160x160 stuff nowadays... Feb 11 21:06:54 well the only use I can see for the extra pixels is ... eye candy. Feb 11 21:07:03 more data! Feb 11 21:08:31 so anybody up to date with recent events Feb 11 21:08:37 where are we standing? Feb 11 21:08:47 on a burning platform? =) Feb 11 21:08:58 nokia sold us ? Feb 11 21:08:59 nono Feb 11 21:09:09 on a burning platform with a shiny microsoft logo Feb 11 21:09:11 RST38h, we are jumping from the burning platform Feb 11 21:09:43 merlin: You are. Feb 11 21:09:50 less indirectly Feb 11 21:09:54 so what is happening Feb 11 21:10:10 there will be no n9-00 Feb 11 21:10:17 but there will be n9-01? Feb 11 21:10:21 Burn it all with fire. Feb 11 21:10:37 jacekowski: who cares? it will be with windows Feb 11 21:10:44 jacekowski: to save you some googling, Symbian set on a timer of about 1-2 years, Meego politely called a "learning tool", and WP& called the main smartphone platform at Nokia Feb 11 21:10:49 jacekowski: I wouldn't put my finger on anything like that. pre-fire, n9-01 was the keyboardless model. Feb 11 21:10:53 jacekowski, there'll probably be both with WP7. Feb 11 21:11:00 N9 with windows? Feb 11 21:11:09 jacekowski: Other small news include more changes to the Nokia management and mass layoffs Feb 11 21:11:24 I keep getting closer and closer to rage mode whenever I think about it. Feb 11 21:11:39 crap Feb 11 21:11:51 so htc will be android OEM Feb 11 21:11:52 and there is a sidenote about a meego "device" at the end of this year Feb 11 21:11:58 + there is a photoshop-worthy picture of Elop and Ballmer...eh....eloping together Feb 11 21:12:01 and nokia will be windows phone 7 oem Feb 11 21:12:14 uh... i reflashed my new (used) N810. before reflashing, my Power button gave options such as "Reboot" and "Soft off", now there's no trace of those. also, the screen doesn't turn off immediately when i lock, like it did before, long-pressing Power doesn't ask for a confirmation before shutting down, and when the screen is off the LED flashes, it didn't do that before. how come? i assume the previous owner did something, but what? O.o Feb 11 21:12:21 GAN900: You can't go to the rage mode, you are working with customers! Feb 11 21:12:36 hmm, that really sucks Feb 11 21:12:54 lot of open source work and platform that was quite close to being usable just went down a drain Feb 11 21:13:06 what about intel-nokia partnership with meego? Feb 11 21:13:09 yes, you can mourn now Feb 11 21:13:13 well it didn't went down a drain. it will just never be used. Feb 11 21:13:24 javispedro: that's same thing Feb 11 21:13:34 but if you're fanatic enough, you get to use it! Feb 11 21:14:40 "Everybody come to the communication meeting Friday! Oh, and you might want to pack up your personal belongings and bring them, just in case." Feb 11 21:15:09 LjL: what did you flash with? Feb 11 21:15:13 javispedro: There is a fire alarm, and whoever can't get back to the building with his RFID card has been laid off! Feb 11 21:15:45 RST38h, don't I know it. Feb 11 21:15:53 pupnik: the official image from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php Feb 11 21:16:00 If anybody tries to shoplift today, there will be blood. Feb 11 21:17:02 * javispedro shoplifts a WP7 phone Feb 11 21:17:26 * federico2 shopstairs Feb 11 21:17:28 pupnik: latest one, of course Feb 11 21:17:57 LjL: i don't recall what mine did - perhaps the previous owner used a different OS version Feb 11 21:18:07 I think just for the fun of it I will get the HTC Trophy 7 Feb 11 21:18:14 And manhandle the living hell out of it Feb 11 21:18:17 pupnik: no, it was the same version number, i checked... Feb 11 21:18:45 hm tea-party in #meego Feb 11 21:18:49 pupnik: i've found out that you can enabled Soft off and Reboot by editing a file in /etc/systemui (or somewhere), but that doesn't explain the rest of the behaviors. i guess i can always try asking the seller Feb 11 21:19:35 " Reading through the Microsoft-Nokia press release gave me flashbacks of the IBM-Apple deal that produced Taligent. The wording, the vagueness of the details, and the miasma of mild desperation clinging to both partners is very familiar." Feb 11 21:20:45 management never fires the management, do they ;) Feb 11 21:20:54 unfortunately. Feb 11 21:21:44 my vision for a high-end nokia phone would be linux-based, that can run webOS and Android apps Feb 11 21:21:49 and maemo5 Feb 11 21:22:14 Is there any chance that the board of directors could eventually fire Elop, that rat bastard? Feb 11 21:22:26 Ask the board! =) Feb 11 21:22:33 I can't ask the board LL Feb 11 21:22:35 lol Feb 11 21:22:39 pupnik: a vmware hypervisor and what ever os you want? Feb 11 21:22:47 Then do not ask US stupid questions. Feb 11 21:23:07 RST38h: Well, nice fucking mood your're in. Feb 11 21:23:12 *you're Feb 11 21:23:36 korhojoa: no, not virtual machines - linux Feb 11 21:23:41 True Feb 11 21:24:03 hey, it's doomsday. Feb 11 21:24:30 pupnik: but vm's would be nice. Feb 11 21:25:01 javispedro: Fire in the circus! Feb 11 21:25:01 korhojoa: have you tried dosbox? Feb 11 21:25:15 are there any big differences between Maemo 5 and WebOS 2.0? Feb 11 21:25:34 yes Feb 11 21:25:36 X Feb 11 21:25:36 All the clowns are on fire! They run around the arena and ignite the audience! Feb 11 21:25:52 any news on alien dalvik? Feb 11 21:27:36 the only top executive gone is curiously the meego one. Feb 11 21:28:24 btw Feb 11 21:28:34 HP just said also that they're not making any more WM/WP stuff. Feb 11 21:28:54 HP was at least once the biggest WM licensee iirc. Feb 11 21:33:35 basically, Nokia is now the only WP7 licensee of any importance left. Feb 11 21:33:41 I wish webOS were viable. Feb 11 21:34:41 YOu do not yet know if WebOS is viable or not Feb 11 21:34:46 Give it 6 months Feb 11 21:35:12 webOS is not viable either imho, but it will at least be here for the next two years. Feb 11 21:35:32 plenty of time Feb 11 21:36:18 (i do not see it ever getting ahead of its current position in market share...) Feb 11 21:36:47 which will probably and ironically be higher than wp7's (it is now =) ) Feb 11 21:38:40 HP has a lot of funds from other sources to keep that platform running Feb 11 21:38:44 nokia, not really Feb 11 21:39:52 which is a good thing because they're yet to make a profit for hp =) Feb 11 21:40:15 webos has a larger dev community and (i believe) application base than wp7 Feb 11 21:41:46 hello Feb 11 21:41:48 ubt they're both very nice OSes... both good alternatives to Android and iOS if one doesn't fancy either/// Feb 11 21:43:11 guys what's a good alternative to Eclipse/ESBox to develop Maemo 5 applications ? Feb 11 21:43:37 depends on what you want to use Feb 11 21:43:42 Everytime I see it I still think it's funny they decided to abandon what currently is #1 platform in share for what currently is #10 platform in share =) Feb 11 21:43:51 if you hopped on the qt train, it'd say qt-creator Feb 11 21:44:03 >.>? Feb 11 21:44:03 clearly, management was on drugs. Feb 11 21:44:05 no meego? Feb 11 21:44:06 s/it'd/I'd/ Feb 11 21:44:52 ok, sleep time Feb 11 21:45:00 cu Feb 11 21:45:01 yeah Feb 11 21:45:07 merlin1991 , I'd like to start with gtkmm before Feb 11 21:45:10 time to say goodbye and thanks for the fish Feb 11 21:45:20 and the last one out please take out the lights =) Feb 11 21:45:35 cu javispedro Feb 11 21:45:47 cya Feb 11 21:45:48 ok, i will use my n900 until it gives up, then changing platform. >_> Feb 11 21:46:46 javispedro, R&D'd drugs, normal ones don't do this much damage Feb 11 21:47:46 Franciman, I don't think you have much alternatives in this case, you might try code::blocks, or use something like vim, joe, emacs Feb 11 21:48:57 ok , and where can I find a good tutorial on setting up the environment ? Feb 11 21:53:06 for the cross-compiler and emulator see http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation Feb 11 21:53:22 FIQ: same. but the high price I paid for my N900 meant for me that I expected to use it for at least ~5years. I would expect things to get better in the open mobile world since then. to me it's only annoying to see the situation deteriorate so badly for the platform i chose to give my money to. Feb 11 21:53:53 Franciman, also check out http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide Feb 11 21:55:02 ok thanks very much merlin1991 Feb 11 22:02:20 Sad day for maemo :( Feb 11 22:02:23 And Nokia really Feb 11 22:03:06 oh I've listened nokia made alliance with WIndows Feb 11 22:03:44 nokia jumped out of the window Feb 11 22:03:57 zap: didn't they jump into the window? Feb 11 22:04:04 ^^ Feb 11 22:04:16 yep, into, but they didn't think what will happen after that Feb 11 22:04:41 i kind of think nokia has to make a new law... Feb 11 22:04:53 "Nokia CEO and boss has to be a Finn" Feb 11 22:04:56 jumping into the window usually ends with falling out of it Feb 11 22:05:11 * federico2 installs moobox Feb 11 22:05:22 * Arkenoi wonders why not just fire CEO. everyone agrees he is plain stupid, even stock analysts think his actions are suicidal Feb 11 22:05:22 autodefenestration Feb 11 22:05:39 hope meego will be installable for n900 Feb 11 22:05:51 n900 is underpowered Feb 11 22:06:00 we need at least 512Mb ram Feb 11 22:06:18 :-/ Feb 11 22:06:19 Arkenoi: have fun with soldering that in... Feb 11 22:06:27 Yea n900 should of had half gig Feb 11 22:06:32 Will be the last nokia I ever buy Feb 11 22:06:36 Samsung here I come! Feb 11 22:06:48 * Arkenoi would by n900i immediately Feb 11 22:06:53 yeah, go bada :P Feb 11 22:06:57 with half a gig Feb 11 22:07:10 jef91: if they go win7 i... i feel like robbed of my own country... Feb 11 22:07:23 Yep. Feb 11 22:07:40 Arkenoi: You think the board of directors can actually invoke a veto on Elop and fire him the hell out of the position as CEO? Feb 11 22:07:43 so... why people from the N900 think of Samsung to go? is it just me who thinks WebOS is the to-go place...? what's wrong with WebOS? Feb 11 22:07:56 DrGrov, why not? Feb 11 22:08:06 Samsung is developing a Linux based OS chx Feb 11 22:08:08 based around EFL Feb 11 22:08:08 DrGrov, it would be wise Feb 11 22:08:12 EFL is the way to go Feb 11 22:08:14 Nokia was embracing OSS the right way...not sure HP would do the same Feb 11 22:08:34 obviously not everyone at nokia, anidel Feb 11 22:08:45 jef91: EFL? Feb 11 22:08:47 EFL. nice :) Feb 11 22:09:16 http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=about/efl Feb 11 22:09:30 Going bed bye Feb 11 22:09:38 http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/01/29/1659253/EFL-10-Is-Finally-Released?from=rss Feb 11 22:09:38 EFL is super light Feb 11 22:09:39 hrm Feb 11 22:10:00 does EFL have anything to do with handhelds? Feb 11 22:10:03 or is it a desktop thing Feb 11 22:10:10 its a linux thing Feb 11 22:10:11 pupnik, no, but the Maemo team was Feb 11 22:10:12 so yes to both Feb 11 22:10:14 Arkenoi: Yes of course, it would extremely wise. Feb 11 22:10:33 jef91: then fltk is awesome too Feb 11 22:10:41 Arkenoi: I just thought that does the board of directors got the balls to pull it off though? Feb 11 22:10:42 fltk? Feb 11 22:10:47 EFL is nice actually Feb 11 22:10:58 vaguely like QML Feb 11 22:11:06 but light, and the logic is all C Feb 11 22:11:13 http://www.fltk.org/documentation.php/doc-1.1/intro.html Feb 11 22:11:13 pupnik: i did some dev experiments with efl on n800. that was a really nice experience Feb 11 22:11:27 info on samsung's plan - http://www.oss.kr/?module=file&act=procFileDownload&file_srl=1609&sid=96028cc2f522ec804ec973e9b92d5bd9 Feb 11 22:11:46 EFL looks nice pupnik Feb 11 22:11:48 more flexible Feb 11 22:11:51 EFL is really sexy Feb 11 22:11:55 Immensely sexy Feb 11 22:12:08 isnt' EFL just a bunch of librarier? how can they make an OS? Feb 11 22:12:18 is it designed for handheld use? Feb 11 22:12:21 I use Enna, a media player thing for Linux. IIRC it is built on EFL Feb 11 22:12:29 if not, then gtfo with that Feb 11 22:12:42 pupnik yes it is Feb 11 22:12:52 ok then Feb 11 22:13:06 efl was running smoooothly on n800 already Feb 11 22:13:30 EFL ran graphics smoothly on openmoko Feb 11 22:13:35 that says something in itself Feb 11 22:13:56 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ Feb 11 22:14:18 but who cares how they look :) Feb 11 22:16:55 http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ Feb 11 22:17:37 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/intel_sticks_with_meego/ Feb 11 22:19:29 That WP 7 concept looks disgusting Feb 11 22:19:51 Completely out of order. Never ever that I could think myself in seeing that ugly Windows button Feb 11 22:20:38 I LOVE that UI Feb 11 22:20:54 lol Feb 11 22:21:00 it's SO refreshing.. I'm not kidding Feb 11 22:21:16 the UI is AMAZING.. it's just that comes from MS :) and it's so closed :( Feb 11 22:21:46 The limitations are pretty horrible though Feb 11 22:21:54 I mean like, how can you even call it an UI if you can't multitask :/ Feb 11 22:22:06 that was a joke right? Feb 11 22:22:07 those are actually two different things Feb 11 22:22:09 I'm also disappointed. I came to complain and watch complaints and join the pity party Feb 11 22:22:11 ShadowJK, well I thought apple did that Feb 11 22:22:16 like you can't multitask? Feb 11 22:22:21 there, i fixed the nokia slide: http://imgur.com/oCLpu Feb 11 22:22:24 dotblank, no it's not :P Feb 11 22:22:27 dotblank, not on Windows, not on iOS, not even in Android Feb 11 22:22:50 I think MS went the Android path... leave it there, but if I need resources, kill it Feb 11 22:23:04 I don't like that either, but the UI is still brilliant Feb 11 22:23:19 I saw some similar winphones on the local ad boards... Feb 11 22:23:28 looked remarkedly like those nokia concepts... Feb 11 22:23:43 so where exactly is the differentiation here? Feb 11 22:24:22 ohh wait this is M$... they don't differentiate... they just want developers to do stuff on their stuff so that users will buy more of their stuff... so developers will do more on their stuff... Feb 11 22:24:47 like Android and iOS ? Feb 11 22:24:53 that you don't have to use android crap Feb 11 22:24:56 or..mmm. Symbian >? Feb 11 22:24:57 or even worse iphone crap Feb 11 22:25:18 http://twitter.com/#!/aidanbiggins/statuses/36015691538771968 lmfao, awesome xD Feb 11 22:25:29 [2011-02-11 21:49:05] OpenMoko was a clusterfuck due to mismanagement and general fanaticism of developers (see our friend PaulFertser answering calls from emacs on his mokophone) [2011-02-11 21:54:09] Hell, I have just done about 1/3 of this job. In PHP/HTML (!) --- MUHAHAHAHA a really good one Feb 11 22:25:58 pronto: i don't get why people keep pasting those urls that really don't work Feb 11 22:26:07 hashbanged urls suck Feb 11 22:26:28 korhojoa: works for me Feb 11 22:26:41 works for me too Feb 11 22:26:51 \o/ Feb 11 22:26:53 actually the only difference between the phones in the ads and those concepts... was that those in the ads said HTC someplace... Feb 11 22:27:18 korhojoa: you should look into fixing your clients url regex Feb 11 22:27:25 for the people who have twat accounts, yes, but for the people who don't (or do, but aren't logged int) it's crap Feb 11 22:27:36 pronto: what are you talking about? Feb 11 22:27:52 what you talking about Feb 11 22:27:58 i'm not logged into twitter and it worked Feb 11 22:28:20 well, tbh, they've never worked for me Feb 11 22:28:32 tried different computers and clients Feb 11 22:28:40 Ms has pretty tight control and don't allow differentiation ;p Feb 11 22:28:41 er, browsers Feb 11 22:29:14 and elop did say a sensible thing, something like must resist customizing stuff just for the sake of customizing Feb 11 22:29:17 it captures the urls fine (default N900 stuff), just doesn't load the post Feb 11 22:29:33 sends you to a "doesn't exist" page Feb 11 22:29:48 Is anybody else here questioning the difference between emacs and PHP/HTML? Feb 11 22:30:02 esp when it comes to using it as a GUI Feb 11 22:30:23 elop is running nokia like a business... i don't agree with his decisions, but he has a LOT of valid criticisms, and he's right about the new change of direction -- i just question if microsoft was the right partner to do it with Feb 11 22:30:44 ieatlint, he's running it like a part of microsoft... Feb 11 22:30:44 surely not HP (they didnt' care) or Google... Feb 11 22:30:54 ruskie: which is what he was hired to do Feb 11 22:31:01 well, dumping pretty much everything they've done so far isn't the best decission Feb 11 22:31:01 HP would've been a valid choice Feb 11 22:31:08 Why not use baseline Google Android, and have the most open Android. Feb 11 22:31:20 because there is htc Feb 11 22:31:24 webos matches their shit more, has more chance of real qt apps, and hp is the largest licensee of qt commercial licences Feb 11 22:31:28 already selling shitloads of crap with android Feb 11 22:31:30 they're already partners Feb 11 22:31:30 and android sucks Feb 11 22:31:31 You might capture SOME of the maemo/meego open source lovers Feb 11 22:31:48 Android would've been a economical suicide - they would've become just another bulk hardware maker Feb 11 22:31:57 that's a good point. Feb 11 22:31:58 Noma, and winpho isn't? Feb 11 22:32:01 ManoftheSea: android is as far from open source as it can only get Feb 11 22:32:07 ManoftheSea: even microsoft is more open Feb 11 22:32:21 I thought it was the vendor android that was more closed. Feb 11 22:32:28 oh noes, it's the pedantic "no you're less open source" argument Feb 11 22:32:29 That you could actually get Android source. Feb 11 22:32:29 * ieatlint runs Feb 11 22:32:49 Maemo was a clusterfuck due to mismanagement and general fanaticism of developers (see our friend Mohammad contrlling everything from a python script on his maemophone) Feb 11 22:32:51 or do you mean, Android doesn't keep with any OSS community? Feb 11 22:32:51 heh. i like the anti-rooting stuff going on on android. then ms going "congratulations on getting full access!" Feb 11 22:32:56 ManoftheSea: you can, but you can't do anything usefull with it Feb 11 22:32:59 ok. Feb 11 22:33:02 Feb 11 22:33:16 DocScrutinizer: probably /sarcasm Feb 11 22:33:38 ruskie: it's easier to stand out from the crowd with WP7 Feb 11 22:33:40 nokia could actually do a lot if it had wanted... basically produced devices with every phone OS they could get... Feb 11 22:33:52 Noma, not when your device looks exactly like the competitions Feb 11 22:34:07 DocScrutinizer: phytonscript? Feb 11 22:34:22 well Nokia has for example great Maps application, superior camera knowledge... Feb 11 22:34:25 including winpho, droid, maybe limo?... and anything else I might be missing... Feb 11 22:34:29 Anyone seen the HTC Trophy 7 in action? Feb 11 22:34:49 Noma, erm... nothing that I would buy any phone for? Feb 11 22:35:02 trouble with windows phone... they don't have even copy&paste! Feb 11 22:35:13 mikki-kun, users don't need that... Feb 11 22:35:17 ruskie: lots of people would Feb 11 22:35:18 http://www.appleoutsider.com/2011/02/11/nokia/ Feb 11 22:35:21 they can just memorise that and retype it... Feb 11 22:35:36 nokia already is just a bulk hardware maker Feb 11 22:36:18 mikki-kun: it took 3 years for apple to add that Feb 11 22:36:29 mikki-kun: microsoft had only couple months Feb 11 22:36:40 jacekowski: 3 years?! Feb 11 22:36:44 why does android suck? Feb 11 22:36:50 linux has that even in plain terminal level! Feb 11 22:36:57 i mean by that tty Feb 11 22:37:06 mavhc: because it's java based Feb 11 22:37:21 mavhc: and is not using anything standard Feb 11 22:37:36 java is... Feb 11 22:37:37 you can run python apps if you want Feb 11 22:37:45 ever seen real java-code for "hello world"? Feb 11 22:37:46 or C, whatever Feb 11 22:37:50 i saw that once... Feb 11 22:37:56 mavhc: no real libc Feb 11 22:38:04 mavhc: so it's more like "C" than C Feb 11 22:38:12 Android barcode scanner in 6 lines of Python code http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/android-barcode-scanner/ Feb 11 22:38:16 android should run as a user-mode kernel under maemo/meego Feb 11 22:38:38 mavhc: yeah, python... but in java? Feb 11 22:38:41 anyway, it's the best you're going to get Feb 11 22:38:52 * ruskie has enough of this day and tries to get some rest... Feb 11 22:39:06 mavhc: python isn't a real language Feb 11 22:39:07 and we can't ignore the fact pyhton is a high-level language whereas C is really low level Feb 11 22:39:14 it's not Feb 11 22:39:17 C is high level Feb 11 22:39:23 hopefully I'll dream about bashing Elops brain in... Feb 11 22:39:31 jacekowski: ohh, then i am sory i mixed up the orders :) Feb 11 22:39:35 no Feb 11 22:39:40 python just isn't Feb 11 22:39:46 C isn't high level, it's just a macro assembler Feb 11 22:39:54 rotfl Feb 11 22:40:06 C was always high level language Feb 11 22:40:20 C is half a step up from machine code Feb 11 22:40:22 my C is higher than you C Feb 11 22:40:28 jacekowski: by that i meant C is more "machine code" and "free of dependencies" than python is :) Feb 11 22:40:32 and lazy bitches that program in "easy" shit like java or python won't change it Feb 11 22:40:34 Proteous: I blame global warming Feb 11 22:40:35 my linker will beat up your honor student Feb 11 22:41:01 mikki-kun: your python is made in C Feb 11 22:41:22 please don't compare Python with java Feb 11 22:41:29 it's same crap Feb 11 22:41:30 jacekowski: my python? i don't use python, i prefer to try learning proper C/C++ :) Feb 11 22:41:40 yeah, who wants computers to be easy, ever since they invented "languages" and "guis" they've sucked Feb 11 22:42:00 C? Pffff I write in binary straight to a harddrive with a magnet and a microscope Feb 11 22:42:09 if you're not flipping switches on a front panel you're basically just an artist Feb 11 22:42:35 vacuume tubes and relays are where it's at Feb 11 22:42:44 mavhc: i have it way easier in "cli-only" than a nie GUI... Feb 11 22:42:50 if you can't hear your computer squeeling how can you know it working? Feb 11 22:42:58 I just alter the big bang to produce the code I want to occur now Feb 11 22:43:05 switches are for sissies, better solder your logic in Feb 11 22:43:12 that is so hipster Feb 11 22:43:45 DocScrutinizer: you mentioned Mohammad being able to control everything form a python script... can you maybe explain that a lil more? :) ) Feb 11 22:43:54 mavhc: my keyboard is a dipswitch Feb 11 22:43:59 I only use an analog computer so I can feel the richness Feb 11 22:45:32 mine is mechanical and made of wood Feb 11 22:46:33 operated with marbles and tracks/levers? Feb 11 22:46:50 I build all my computers in minecraft Feb 11 22:47:46 need to add two numbers? Pfff let me light some fuse Feb 11 22:48:01 Proteous, and powered by a nearby stream Feb 11 22:48:07 mikki-kun: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control http://maemo.org/packages/view/phone-control/ Feb 11 22:50:01 DocScrutinizer: thanks for the link :) Feb 11 22:54:01 so sad to hear the news... Feb 11 22:54:59 will maemo and meego remain active projects? Feb 11 22:55:15 chadi: side projects... Feb 11 22:55:19 at least meego Feb 11 22:56:04 too bad Feb 11 22:56:42 the new ceo should be fired _now_! Feb 11 22:56:46 well, i mean if nokia isn't going to change modem api and other stuff Feb 11 22:56:59 community may develope portable OS that could run on future nokia phones Feb 11 22:57:11 yep Feb 11 22:57:44 and we'll see BB5 for quite some time into the future, as well as OMAP Feb 11 22:58:10 Although the firmware updates on N900 have each time been incompatible with the phone stack Feb 11 22:58:16 :P Feb 11 22:58:31 jacekowski: you mean maemo taking over as a hacking project to be installed on other phones? Feb 11 22:58:40 As in, you can't downgrade OS and keep phone without tricking nolo into downgrading modem firmware Feb 11 23:00:06 maybe i should buy myself a second n900 in case my current one breaks... Feb 11 23:00:38 so what does that mean - "Nokia won't develop MeeGo"? It just means the next device will *ship* with closed source crap developed by M$ rather than closed source abominations for dialer, callendar etc, developed by Nokia on top of an oh-so-open meego OS. This doesn't mean we can't use MeeGo on those devices, and hell, they might even get cheaper, due to the much higher volume Nokia will attract with a well known OS for dumbasses Feb 11 23:01:16 Even dumbasses don't want Win7 on their phones. Feb 11 23:01:18 hehe DocScrutinizer Feb 11 23:01:21 greetings, anyone heard of Barnes & Noble Nook.. and any chance it could run Maemo ? Feb 11 23:01:22 DocScrutinizer: why not go then iOS? Feb 11 23:01:32 mikki-kun, don't make me start Feb 11 23:01:53 * pupnik is happy the two leading OS's are unixy! Feb 11 23:01:55 * DrGrov is watching Tropa de Elite 2 without understanding a single word but imaging Elop Feb 11 23:02:10 MohammadAG: on what? iOS? ^^ Feb 11 23:02:26 yes, my dad got an iPhone, used it for 2 days now Feb 11 23:02:47 UI - excellent, apps - over 100k, 30-40 installed Feb 11 23:03:00 functionality - close to 0 for most apps on the store Feb 11 23:03:09 MohammadAG: btw, thanks for phone-control! that is exaclty what i have been looking for a long long time! Feb 11 23:03:12 those stores are pits of poop Feb 11 23:03:30 multitasking, a joke if you ask me, it's just shortcuts to the recently used apps Feb 11 23:03:48 if the app supports multitasking, it saves view on exit, reloads it on "resume" Feb 11 23:03:51 MohammadAG: that is true multitasking, according to apple Feb 11 23:03:57 mikki-kun, you're welcome Feb 11 23:04:15 DocScrutinizer: thanks for mentioning it as well :) Feb 11 23:05:15 DocScrutinizer, you think the bootloader will be unlocked? Feb 11 23:05:33 * mikki-kun wants to go out, grab a random dudes iphone, smash it into the ground, break it apart and film all that with my precious n900 while doing so :) Feb 11 23:05:38 that's the one million dollar queston Feb 11 23:06:23 maybe someone smart enough will understand how it works Feb 11 23:06:25 or just replace it Feb 11 23:06:36 Maybe if we start killing MS employees. Feb 11 23:07:00 Who is on Nokia's board? Feb 11 23:07:07 Let's not forget their names. Feb 11 23:07:40 I'd guess the signing key is more easily obtainable than by starting to torture and execute M$ employees.... HELL, let's do it ANYWAY!! Feb 11 23:08:04 DocScrutinizer: execute them via a -exe? Feb 11 23:08:08 *.exe Feb 11 23:08:28 GAN900, if we were rich, we'd buy a few thousand Nokia Windows Phone 7 Devices, get a grinder and a furnace, and go camp outside Nokia/MS HQ and grind them to bits and burning the bits and hoping the fumes float towards the HQ. Feb 11 23:08:48 DocScrutinizer: btw, let's kill them via "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/brain" Feb 11 23:08:54 ohhh, wait, that won't work... Feb 11 23:09:44 error: /dev/brain : no such file or directory Feb 11 23:09:45 ShadowJK: one man alone is not rich, how about a community project though? Feb 11 23:09:46 ShadowJK: You'd be better *not* buying a few thousand Nokia WP7 units.. you wouldn't want to quadruple their sales and make them think it's successful Feb 11 23:09:50 DocScrutinizer: exactly XD Feb 11 23:09:51 ShadowJK: Ballmer will say thank you personally Feb 11 23:10:01 ShadowJK: perhaps he will propose you a discont, even Feb 11 23:10:19 Ballmer Feb 11 23:10:27 Ball Mer Feb 11 23:10:32 found a name for Mer v2! Feb 11 23:10:36 Ball merd Feb 11 23:10:50 I also know a joke about "mee go" Feb 11 23:10:50 s/merd/merde/ Feb 11 23:11:02 that was the last words of nokia Feb 11 23:11:09 XD Feb 11 23:11:10 mikki-kun, nah it'd have to be many more units than the crowd doing it Feb 11 23:11:15 "mee go out of the windows" Feb 11 23:11:52 zap: "mee go out and look at the shiny windows" Feb 11 23:12:57 ShadowJK: who says we can all afford a plane ticket in addition to that? Feb 11 23:13:39 mikki-kun, this is why I prefixed everything with "if we were rich" Feb 11 23:14:06 anyway, thanks to whole community! I learned a new lesson today, that I didn't get completely last time and almost forgot: an OS isn't valued for what it is, but for what it *might* become eventually Feb 11 23:14:09 WeeGo Boom Feb 11 23:14:19 uh. i wanted to install Wormux on my N810, but i mistakenly started installing WarMUX instead, which was featured on maemo.org download page. however, that doesn't seem to be available for OS2008? yet, it didn't refuse to install! instead, it's stuck "installing" now Feb 11 23:14:26 s/OS/product/ Feb 11 23:14:39 yay, sarcasm! Feb 11 23:15:09 MohammadAG: your father is happy with the iCrap? Feb 11 23:15:28 last time I've seen such doomsday panic was when gta03 got discontinued Feb 11 23:15:29 lots of people are happy with iphones Feb 11 23:15:38 the problem is that we are not people Feb 11 23:15:38 Looks like it is out of order to ask a straight god damn question at #meego Feb 11 23:15:55 DrGrov: your question was out of line Feb 11 23:15:55 pupnik: You thought that the question was out of order? Feb 11 23:16:11 no i wondered which promise you were speaking of Feb 11 23:16:16 DrGrov: what did you ask? Feb 11 23:16:20 asking, "who's how can I burn down about the nokia decision" is out of line Feb 11 23:16:22 that's a vague 'promise' if you ask me Feb 11 23:16:24 wmarone: Out of line? You gotta be joking. I just asked a plain and simple question on whether he feels like a puppet or not. Feb 11 23:16:25 DocScrutinizer, Yup, this is gta03 on a bigger scale. Feb 11 23:16:42 DrGrov: and it's a crude question Feb 11 23:16:47 Proteous: it's not Feb 11 23:16:48 not deserving of being answered Feb 11 23:16:50 DrGrov, that was not fair to kick you out like that. Feb 11 23:17:06 it's as much an insult to the person you're asking as the target Feb 11 23:17:06 wmarone: Well, no need to answer. Just wanted a honest opinion, that's all. Feb 11 23:17:12 mikki-kun, it's easy to use I guess Feb 11 23:17:12 Proteous: it's not out of the line Feb 11 23:17:14 jacekowski: I can give you Balmers address if you want Feb 11 23:17:19 :P Feb 11 23:17:28 Proteous: there was much heavier shit flying in this channel Feb 11 23:17:38 http://www.engadget.com/photos/pre-3-hands-on-2/#3864801 too bad the large palm unit doesn't have a landscape keyboard :/ Feb 11 23:17:39 without a reason Feb 11 23:17:46 now we have a reason and it's reasonably calm Feb 11 23:17:49 kerio: I said it to wmarone already a few lines up Feb 11 23:17:49 I was just being sarcastic... Feb 11 23:17:55 what's the current state of MeeGo Handset? Feb 11 23:18:00 dead Feb 11 23:18:02 abandoned Feb 11 23:18:04 it wasn't the real question, it was something I just made up Feb 11 23:18:04 mikki-kun, I suggested the Samsung Galaxy S, but it was out of stock operator-wide, so I told him to get the iPhone Feb 11 23:18:08 any way to install beta stuff to try it out? Feb 11 23:18:09 Ballmer reminds me of Balrog. Likewise, falling into the abyss, the fire whip grappled Nokia. Feb 11 23:18:13 he was going to pay the same for both anyway, so meh Feb 11 23:18:17 wmarone: Well it might not be answered. I know that but just a straight honest opinion. Feb 11 23:18:20 (post-1.1, of course, with half-decent performance, hopefully) Feb 11 23:18:37 I hate people who keep talking about honesty and all that and still don't give any type of straight, hard facts. Feb 11 23:18:47 MohammadAG: pita to get apps for it available though... you have to made a total revenue of 141 $ plus some cents to win back your 100$ application fee you pay every year to code stuff on the iphone Feb 11 23:18:54 But I do understand that it is not his thing to answer. Feb 11 23:19:14 mikki-kun, I'm not coding for it Feb 11 23:19:16 don't plan to Feb 11 23:19:20 teenage muntant zebra turtles? Feb 11 23:19:21 HP's pre-3 trinity is what maemo5 should have had Feb 11 23:19:39 jacekowski, I wouldn't say MeeGo is dead Feb 11 23:19:44 Well, that's uplifting. Feb 11 23:19:45 MohammadAG: good :) but just wanted to mention that so you know Feb 11 23:20:01 Got to see a first edition, first state, first printing Huck Finn. Feb 11 23:20:02 People can not seem to stand any type of critique these days. Feb 11 23:20:07 mikki-kun, yeah, I know, only way to dev for free is to jailbreak it Feb 11 23:20:10 MohammadAG: with major meego target going the other way suddenly Feb 11 23:20:11 (US) Feb 11 23:20:16 MohammadAG: it pretty much is Feb 11 23:20:20 jacekowski, dying != dead Feb 11 23:20:25 MohammadAG: did you jailbreak it for him? ^^ Feb 11 23:20:28 People get banned for asking a straight question which has no personal intentions... Feb 11 23:20:31 mikki-kun, nope Feb 11 23:20:42 It's iOS 4.2.1, on an iPhone 4 Feb 11 23:20:52 I gave up on trying, before reading how to do it Feb 11 23:21:04 it's like having a gf that you plan to have baby with and on a last minute she tells you she's gay Feb 11 23:21:06 iirc you can do that as well though Feb 11 23:21:17 MohammadAG: MeeGo is being ported to BSD. NetCraft confirms it Feb 11 23:21:31 jacekowski: oh god, a shemale! Feb 11 23:21:51 mikki-kun: that's like 141 downloads of a .99$ app Feb 11 23:22:07 kerio: 160 Feb 11 23:22:11 mikki-kun: not that kind of gay Feb 11 23:22:13 also whatever Feb 11 23:22:14 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ Feb 11 23:22:38 mikki-kun, you'd notice a shemale, she doesn't have to tell you she's "gay" Feb 11 23:22:41 HP Pre have a horrible keyboard Feb 11 23:23:12 keyboard is not really needed nowadays Feb 11 23:23:26 zap: you are kidding Feb 11 23:23:36 onscreen is okay for simple ops, and for advanced usage you always can connect a bluetooth one Feb 11 23:23:45 zap: i cant survive a day without hw keyboard Feb 11 23:23:45 MohammadAG: hm... true that, mixxed up trans and shemale there :/ Feb 11 23:23:46 they're cheap as shit Feb 11 23:23:50 zap: keyboard is essential, onscreen keyboards are horrible Feb 11 23:23:56 landscape keyboard, even Feb 11 23:24:01 for web and chats its okay :) Feb 11 23:24:07 zap: i have disabled the virtual keyboard in N900 Feb 11 23:24:09 a gay girl, yay! Feb 11 23:25:04 gay according to dictionary just means not going the correct way Feb 11 23:25:16 trumee: it's rather about giving you the choice, carry the keyboard with you or not Feb 11 23:25:44 and if yes, what kind/size/usability Feb 11 23:26:14 GOD Dammnit!!! Feb 11 23:26:35 did u guys see nokia windows phone concept?? Feb 11 23:26:44 disgusted! Feb 11 23:26:57 lolloo: no c&p :) Feb 11 23:26:59 they planned the trait long ago, thats it Feb 11 23:27:17 DocScrutinizer, indeed, I prefer the term lesbian, but I'll stfu now Feb 11 23:27:23 *treason Feb 11 23:27:30 dyke is the word Feb 11 23:27:30 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ Feb 11 23:27:40 my eyes it husrts!!! Feb 11 23:27:41 Easy now. Feb 11 23:28:01 see Feb 11 23:28:03 hehe easy dudes Feb 11 23:28:05 those aren't bad Feb 11 23:28:22 well, except for the lack of keyobard Feb 11 23:28:24 kick now! Feb 11 23:28:27 keyboard* Feb 11 23:28:29 and WP7 Feb 11 23:28:30 joking Feb 11 23:28:30 heh Feb 11 23:28:32 heh Feb 11 23:28:44 omg that was quick! Feb 11 23:28:51 i really like N8 design Feb 11 23:28:58 kerio: i recalculated that... with your 145th download of the .99$-app you will see your first pennies rolling in (paying your developer fee of 100$ and then also for each subsequent download 30% 'charges' to apple" Feb 11 23:29:20 Looks like Nokia have been planning to screw everyone over for a while Feb 11 23:29:23 wow... that's so... CGA Feb 11 23:29:30 mikki-kun: 145 downloads aren't that much Feb 11 23:29:58 the camera looks shitty Feb 11 23:29:58 or I'm used to good cameras having a big lump Feb 11 23:30:04 kerio: who says everyone wants your ebookreader out of the 10k there are already ;) Feb 11 23:30:26 MohammadAG: of the n8? Feb 11 23:30:40 no, the concepts lolloo linked to Feb 11 23:30:48 the N8's design is one I like Feb 11 23:30:54 not sure what exactly planted the seeds, but why am I now hoping that some other company buys Qt from Nokia? Feb 11 23:31:02 can i get them and smash them to lego-sized pieces? Feb 11 23:31:16 the only thing I hate with symbian device designs is that they're longer more than they're wider, and the shitty res that's coupled with that Feb 11 23:31:16 MohammadAG: the E7 looks pretty promising and good Feb 11 23:31:40 I'm surprised that I type quite quickly on the iPhone in portrait mode, yet I suck on the N8 Feb 11 23:31:41 mikki-kun: you had to buy a mac too, so more like your 1000000th Feb 11 23:31:54 mikhas, 640x360 Feb 11 23:32:05 MohammadAG: ohhh, the E7 as well? Feb 11 23:32:09 yes Feb 11 23:32:12 on a 4" screen Feb 11 23:32:21 * mikki-kun abandons the E7 as looking promising Feb 11 23:32:30 I liked the n8 kb for accuracy, terrible UI though Feb 11 23:32:31 if it werent for today's news i was very sorely tempted to be buying an e7 in a few weeks Feb 11 23:32:47 and I bet my entire life's earnings huge numbers of people feel the same Feb 11 23:32:56 MohammadAG: the iPhone is imbued with magic to facilitate typing Feb 11 23:33:31 the iPhone's keyboard is awesome Feb 11 23:33:41 not really Feb 11 23:33:50 compared to the N8, it is awesome kerio Feb 11 23:34:01 I loved the PR1.0 vkb on the N900 :( Feb 11 23:34:04 swype wins though Feb 11 23:34:06 I seem to remember NITDroid's keybeard being halfway decent Feb 11 23:34:08 doesn't the n8 have a physical keyboard? Feb 11 23:34:11 hate to say it, but the WP7 KB > iPhone Feb 11 23:34:11 editing e-mail on the iPhone is painful though Feb 11 23:34:17 ...and better than Maemo5's Feb 11 23:34:20 MohammadAG, why is it better? Feb 11 23:34:32 kerio, no Feb 11 23:34:39 MohammadAG: then ha ha ha Feb 11 23:34:45 of course the iphone kbd is better Feb 11 23:34:46 the PR1.0 kb? it was freakin awesome Feb 11 23:34:53 a bit of actual thought went into it Feb 11 23:34:59 in PR1.1, they got rid of gestures Feb 11 23:35:06 in PR1.2, they broke it with a retarded design Feb 11 23:35:21 MohammadAG: kerio n8 doesn't have physical Feb 11 23:35:28 MohammadAG, why is iOS vkb better than Pr1.2? Feb 11 23:35:40 mikki-kun, I know, I have one :P Feb 11 23:35:56 MohammadAG: is the cam really that much better on it? Feb 11 23:36:16 MohammadAG: I'm guessing the VKB is closed source? Feb 11 23:36:17 compared to n900... oh and the xeon-flash... does it really flash nicely? Feb 11 23:36:31 it's not mine, but meh Feb 11 23:36:33 MohammadAG: PR1.0 had gestures? Feb 11 23:36:44 iOS vkb is better than all Feb 11 23:36:48 wmarone, yes Feb 11 23:37:02 Is there a way to try out the PR1.0 keyboard without actually reverting to PR1.0? Feb 11 23:37:16 my n900 had PR1.2 when I bought it off eBay Feb 11 23:37:27 mikki-kun, yes, down to close, right to add a space, left for backspace, up for umm, line break I think? Feb 11 23:37:49 last time I tried to do it, I ended up with no working vkb and had to reflash Feb 11 23:37:53 MohammadAG: anything for shift or numlock? Feb 11 23:38:05 ah, right Feb 11 23:38:48 up was shift + key Feb 11 23:38:48 so swiping up on a returned A Feb 11 23:39:06 actually, I could see drag up from a particular letter giving you the shifted version Feb 11 23:39:10 ...being useful Feb 11 23:39:52 this worked up till PR1.2, on PR1.2 doing it breaks the vkb, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=40619 Feb 11 23:40:14 Hmm... I'm getting urges to throw my iPhone 4 against a wall. Updating from 4.0 to 4.2.1 doesn't want to be easy. Feb 11 23:40:25 Installing Community SSU on the N900 was easier! Feb 11 23:40:42 MohammadAG: how is the media player from you actually doing? :) Feb 11 23:44:42 mikki-kun, it lacks MafwPlaylist Feb 11 23:45:19 mikki-kun, otherwise, it runs well, I think, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer Feb 11 23:45:23 it's music only for now Feb 11 23:45:35 MafwPlaylist does what? Feb 11 23:45:59 I should get back on it, crashanddie doesn't seem to want to work on it, we've been stalled since my exams started Feb 11 23:46:05 playlists :P Feb 11 23:46:13 exams > media player :) Feb 11 23:46:14 when you select a song now, it plays it fine Feb 11 23:46:29 wmarone, my exams finished on 26/1 :P Feb 11 23:46:34 doh Feb 11 23:46:47 mikki-kun, but when the song finishes, it skips to the next one on the stock player playlist Feb 11 23:47:17 mikki-kun, try it Feb 11 23:47:23 MohammadAG: it starts the stock media player then? Feb 11 23:47:28 wget http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/mediaplayer; chmod +x mediaplayer; ./mediaplayer Feb 11 23:47:33 do that on one line, and it should run Feb 11 23:47:54 mikki-kun, no Feb 11 23:48:02 it plays the songs assigned in the stock player Feb 11 23:48:11 technically, it's mafw doing this, not the stock player Feb 11 23:48:29 ahhhh, so i still have to make the playlists in stock media player if i want custom playlists? Feb 11 23:48:45 Now playing is considered a playlist Feb 11 23:50:18 * DocScrutinizer yawns Feb 11 23:52:04 hm, does busybox use bash or sh? Feb 11 23:52:43 busybox is busybox Feb 11 23:53:02 it has its own quirks Feb 11 23:53:17 busybox is ash Feb 11 23:53:37 * DocScrutinizer is closing the NOK live chart, knowing tomorrow Nokia will announce foobar-II and that's real cool shit (as virtually anything they could announce now is cool compared to what Elop did today). Buy now people, you won't get Nokia shares any cheaper Feb 11 23:54:36 MohammadAG: hm, would you recommend to switch as to bash? Feb 11 23:54:50 anyone have wp7 running on their n900 yet?? Feb 11 23:54:54 ~messybox Feb 11 23:55:00 bash > ash, but really, you need coreutils-gnu to make use of it Feb 11 23:55:06 meh, IBOT!?! Feb 11 23:55:43 Gadgetoid: installing community-ssu is braindead simple Feb 11 23:56:09 Dhraakellian: To get the iPhone updated to 4.2.1 I had to edit my god damned hosts file for some reason... *facepalm* Feb 11 23:56:14 Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) Feb 11 23:56:15 click the link, click through dialogs, click an icon, backup when it suggests you do so, click through some more Feb 11 23:56:38 cool Feb 11 23:56:40 apt: get Feb 11 23:56:41 hmm... get is search http://www.apt-get.org Feb 11 23:56:51 I always thought the method I used was hard for some users :P Feb 11 23:56:53 What!? Feb 11 23:57:08 * Gadgetoid just got trolled by a bot Feb 11 23:57:13 in fact, I was trying to make installation easier Feb 11 23:57:40 updating my desktop to KDE 4.6 on opensuse is harder, not terribly so, but still Feb 11 23:57:40 then I gave up due to difficulties, so I had to use an icon in the menu Feb 11 23:57:41 * Arkenoi watched alien dalvik video. it seems to be lightspeed fast and unlike nitdroid appears to be really useful. Feb 11 23:57:48 MohammadAG: coreutils i have installed Feb 11 23:58:00 ~messybox Feb 11 23:58:00 messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils Feb 11 23:58:38 I just made bash3 my default shell this week Feb 11 23:58:52 need to change my root PS1 colors Feb 11 23:59:18 http://twitter.com/nokia/status/36189563688849408 Feb 11 23:59:18 Dhraakellian: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-tip-prompt/ Feb 11 23:59:36 that site is really really helpful for doing so :) Feb 11 23:59:47 mikki-kun: I have done it before. I have to look up color codes every single time, but I have done it before Feb 12 00:00:21 `Microsofts openess' haha... Feb 12 00:00:39 Dhraakellian: i found out today and have now a command prompt similiar to my irssi look Feb 12 00:01:06 Dhraakellian: PS1="\t \e[34m[-\e[32m\u\e[0m\e[34m-\e[0m\h \e[34m>\e[0m" <--- mine :) Feb 12 00:01:35 \[\033[00;32m\]\u\[\033[00m\]@\[\033[01;36m\]\h \[\033[01;34m\]\W\[\033[01;32m\] $ \[\033[00m\] on my desktop Feb 12 00:01:42 I change the hostname colors for each computer Feb 12 00:02:13 and root gets a red username and a red '#' Feb 12 00:02:31 speaking of bash3, anybody tell me why 'help' doesn't work in bash3? Feb 12 00:02:54 which gashead thought it's a good idea to kick this out of bash? Feb 12 00:02:59 Arkenoi: yeah, it looks interesting Feb 12 00:03:04 here's hoping it's cheap Feb 12 00:03:12 here's wishing for F/OSS too Feb 12 00:03:24 but I'm not gonna get my hopes too far up for that Feb 12 00:04:15 Dhraakellian: i have different hostnames for each computer ;) Feb 12 00:04:30 If I were concerned obout the 2kb that are needed by 'help' then I'd probably not use bash Feb 12 00:04:58 mikki-kun: as do I Feb 12 00:05:16 Dhraakellian: why change then colors? :) Feb 12 00:05:48 mikki-kun: just one more clue that you're on a different computer Feb 12 00:06:11 MohammadAG: i will try the media player as soon as i switched my default shell :) Feb 12 00:06:19 a splash of color may be easier to distinguish at a glance than different text Feb 12 00:06:32 what is this media player? Feb 12 00:06:41 good morning Feb 12 00:06:42 * Dhraakellian has MediaBox and Rockbox installed Feb 12 00:06:56 Dhraakellian: total rewrite of the stock media player with even the looks of it, just not as stupid as it :) Feb 12 00:07:22 'soon as Rockbox gets its keymaps sorted out and Scrobbling working, I'll be ditching MediaBox Feb 12 00:07:27 heh Feb 12 00:07:43 complete HW accelerated video? Feb 12 00:08:24 +with Feb 12 00:08:27 so far no video :/ Feb 12 00:08:42 ah Feb 12 00:08:43 Mohammad is working it from the looks of it mostly alone Feb 12 00:09:10 well, with RockboxAsAnApp, I don't really have so much interest in another music player Feb 12 00:10:45 Dhraakellian: did you follow any guides to make bash your normal prompt? Feb 12 00:11:14 installed it, and it told me to run a setup command for each user Feb 12 00:11:57 Dhraakellian: can you maybe recall how it was called? Feb 12 00:12:18 bash-setup Feb 12 00:12:23 i installed it in the past and was like "ohhh, i'll install it soon"... i've been saying that for like half a year now >.< Feb 12 00:12:27 arigato :) Feb 12 00:12:38 install bash3, run bash-setup Feb 12 00:13:43 bash-setup was the command i looked for :) Feb 12 00:17:53 Quote of the day: All new Nokia phones will have keyboards so that CTRL-ALT-Delete can be pressed when WP7 has frozen up yet again... Feb 12 00:18:26 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Feb 12 00:18:31 that reminds me - scraping the windows logo off my thinkpad Feb 12 00:18:48 there is a windows logo on your thinkpad? Feb 12 00:18:48 complete HW accelerated video? Feb 12 00:18:51 pupnik: try doing that on the new nokia devices... Feb 12 00:18:57 gstreamer accelerates videos right now Feb 12 00:19:01 oh right might have been there too ... it came loose by itself :P Feb 12 00:19:07 nifty Feb 12 00:19:22 mplayer still doesn't, I assume Feb 12 00:19:42 * Dhraakellian glanced at smplayer again last night to see if the Maemo build had OpenSubtitles.org support Feb 12 00:19:45 it didn't Feb 12 00:20:05 that's one feature I really like about the desktop version Feb 12 00:25:00 what did the pr1.0 keyboard look like? Feb 12 00:29:06 can i change the default shell fo root to bash as well? Feb 12 00:30:34 mikki-kun: and i mapped the 'windows' key to "close window" in xfce :D Feb 12 00:31:44 i use Mod4 as my general mod-button on my dwm setup here Feb 12 00:32:14 the browser needs about 5-10 secs before it starts loading the first page of a browsing session. ping resolves immediately. Any ideas? Feb 12 00:32:22 Mod4 + c == close Feb 12 00:43:11 ... why did I get a N900 recently... Feb 12 00:43:36 I mean, the device is awesome... but the nokia ms alliance makes me regret my decision Feb 12 00:43:49 because despite this announcement, the N9000 will not spontaneously burst into flames (barring batter problems) Feb 12 00:43:57 N900* Feb 12 00:44:56 Dhraakellian, http://my-maemo.com/reviews/grafika/n900_21.jpg Feb 12 00:45:22 a-ha Feb 12 00:45:38 less room for the text, but more room for the buttons Feb 12 00:45:51 seems a reasonable trade Feb 12 00:46:01 though still taking up the entire screen Feb 12 00:46:24 which would seem to be the main reason for the HW keyboard Feb 12 00:46:33 not accuracy, but visibility and context Feb 12 00:47:13 Dhraakellian: iirc the buttons are the same size Feb 12 00:47:38 wmarone: yeah, but I did not buy it _just_ bc. of the hardware, I mostly bought it bc. of the software on it - linux. I had expected to have a company supporting this code for many more years and that I could mutualy support the company which supports open source development on smartphones with that Feb 12 00:48:07 T_X: nokia has "dropped" official support since pr1.3 Feb 12 00:48:11 that was last summer Feb 12 00:48:21 mikki-kun: you may be right Feb 12 00:48:45 open source will actually never be "supported" as too few people use it as it looks :/ Feb 12 00:49:07 My n810 is :( Feb 12 00:49:14 it boots, loads the desktop, then reboots Feb 12 00:49:15 :/ Feb 12 00:49:18 what should i do Feb 12 00:49:59 hm, will nokia even make then harmattan?! Feb 12 00:50:01 Ö.ö Feb 12 00:50:30 sevard: maybe a reflash might help... sorry, can't help there too much, am not a diablo user :/ Feb 12 00:51:00 do you know if that will erase the entire internal memory? Feb 12 00:51:23 on the n900 it erases everything not on a seperate chip Feb 12 00:51:34 if i flash the rootfs i flash only data on the fast flash Feb 12 00:51:43 shit. Feb 12 00:51:46 if i flash the emmc then all personal data is lost... Feb 12 00:51:55 sevard: maybe usb-networking might work on yours though... Feb 12 00:52:02 so you could be able to backup something Feb 12 00:52:14 i am sorry i cannot help you more on that ;( Feb 12 00:54:10 thank you though :) Feb 12 00:54:30 but didn't the n810 also have a mini-sd slot or something? Feb 12 00:54:36 maybe you have some of your data there Feb 12 00:55:34 Do you guys think Qt will be developed further? Would like to learn it, but won't waste my time either... Feb 12 00:55:36 I would like nothing better than to see more of the N900 code opened up. But I doubt it will happen :P Feb 12 00:56:00 Tukanfan: http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php Feb 12 00:56:06 Tukanfan: *someone* will develop it Feb 12 00:56:28 if Nokia stops, well... Feb 12 00:56:58 and anyway, it's under the LGPL now, so if worse came to worse, even without the above-linked agreement, it could still be forked Feb 12 00:57:01 we need to get fail0verfl0w to hack the n900 :D Feb 12 00:57:12 But will the code quality prevail? I havn't had that good experiences with KDE Feb 12 00:57:16 but that bridge will be crossed when necessary Feb 12 00:57:19 and it's not necessary yet Feb 12 00:57:46 I wouldn't really worry Feb 12 00:57:56 * Dhraakellian has had plenty of good experiences with KDE Feb 12 00:58:21 hmm, just think they make some design mistakes sometimes Feb 12 00:59:10 but well, if you say so ;) Feb 12 00:59:15 do you know about plasma mobile framework ? Feb 12 00:59:39 have seen a youtube video Feb 12 01:00:56 is this tied to meego ? Feb 12 01:03:32 mikki-kun: we dont need to hack the N900, its already fully customizable :P Feb 12 01:04:10 mostly Feb 12 01:05:21 jonwil: present me the source code of the bootloader then on a silver platter :) Feb 12 01:05:56 well we dont need fail0verfl0w to hack that, we just need someone to reverse engineer it with IDA :P Feb 12 01:06:20 heh, fail0verfl0w... Feb 12 01:06:35 poor kids are all sued Feb 12 01:08:38 Sc0rpius: i hope sony loses that battle Feb 12 01:10:48 yes so do I Feb 12 01:12:07 I am hoping that they can argue that the "interoperability" provisions of the DMCA apply in this case Feb 12 01:12:56 as its clear that neither GeoHot nor Fail0verfl0w wanted piracy on the system, they only wanted interoperability (i.e. the ability to run their own code on the device they paid for) Feb 12 01:20:52 Time to write these proposal emails to the community list per what I was told yesterday :) Feb 12 01:28:25 Is there a "evening with Nokia" event coming up this Sunday? Feb 12 01:35:09 ok, thats got one sent Feb 12 01:43:46 hi Feb 12 01:44:59 would it be safe to copy and symlink /opt/maemo/usr/share/themes to inside MyDocs? Feb 12 01:51:30 anyone? Feb 12 01:52:16 why not? Feb 12 01:53:55 i suspect that will make it impossible to do USB mass-storage Feb 12 01:54:41 the theme data don't get stored in ram after it is loaded for the first time? Feb 12 01:55:33 no Feb 12 01:55:58 in practise, yes, but only due to filesystem caching, would be my guess Feb 12 01:56:31 it's not like GTK has some central daemon drawing windows Feb 12 01:56:51 that doesn't sound wise, though i guess it becomes necessary with how little RAM the N900 got Feb 12 01:56:52 each GTK application will need to load theme data and pixmaps Feb 12 01:57:14 TiagoTiago: well, how else could it work, really? Feb 12 01:57:31 you'd need some kind of GTK-theming daemon... Feb 12 01:57:53 and in any case, it's not going to leave cache unless you really, really need the RAM Feb 12 01:58:07 since it gets used so much Feb 12 01:58:14 the data for the current theme would be kept in RAM keeping it fast to read by any program that intends to use the OS's theme Feb 12 01:58:33 TiagoTiago: in practise, that will happen through caching Feb 12 01:59:21 programs that use their own theme or even their own GUI rendering engine that doesn't share the OS theme wouldn't care where the OS is storing it's theme data Feb 12 02:00:26 if it happens with the caching, would it matter where the original data is stored? Feb 12 02:01:06 TiagoTiago: the kernel doesn't cache files that don't exist any more. taht'd be a bad idea. Feb 12 02:02:06 I hadn't even thought about mass storage mode, i was worried about what would happen while booting Feb 12 02:04:21 is there a way i can have the system automaticly copy the data for the currently selected theme into a less volatile location, and always read the theme from there instead of from the themes library? Feb 12 02:05:16 TiagoTiago: keep gtkrc pointing to a generically-named location, and copy the theme you want to use there when you feel like a change? Feb 12 02:05:30 (i'm saying it's possible, not advisable) Feb 12 02:05:49 would that work? why not advisable? Feb 12 02:08:27 TiagoTiago: it has an ill-defined feeling of asking for an update to kick you in the face at some point Feb 12 02:08:47 :( Feb 12 02:09:21 I don't wanna have to uninstall all the other themes i don't got selected right now :/ Feb 12 02:24:42 ping; pong for test purpose? Feb 12 02:27:08 so, am I going to have to start looking at android phones? :( Feb 12 02:27:55 maybe I should just buy a nokia windows nonsense 7 phone. Every time I spend a lot of money on a phone the platform falls on its arse (openmoko, then maemo) Feb 12 02:28:37 oh so meego is dead too? Feb 12 02:29:04 doc|home: sounds about right Feb 12 02:29:44 is there any chance elop will get thrown out on his ear? Feb 12 02:30:07 none Feb 12 02:30:21 android it is then... Feb 12 02:30:51 he was brought in to shake stuff up, to replace him would cause even more uncertainty Feb 12 02:31:03 and that will drop their stock price more Feb 12 02:31:15 mediocre plan > no plan Feb 12 02:31:51 This really gives nokia no competitive advantage. They're going to get screwed. Feb 12 02:32:09 windows phone 7 is a disadvantage in fact. Feb 12 02:32:29 yeah, and it screws over ALL of their existing developers Feb 12 02:32:33 yup Feb 12 02:32:52 the android camp must be wetting themselves at the thought of the devs flocking Feb 12 02:33:19 google's already made the overture of asking nokia employees if they want a job :P Feb 12 02:33:27 hahaha Feb 12 02:33:28 nice Feb 12 02:33:52 http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2011/02/11/google-makes-job-offer-to-nokia-engineers Feb 12 02:34:53 both apple and google had their stocks jump a bit today, heh Feb 12 02:37:13 hahaaha Feb 12 02:37:16 "Epic fail, Nokia! Now even chinese NOKLA will beat you, I guess." Feb 12 02:37:22 sad, that it might even become true Feb 12 02:37:32 i'm picking up an android phone tomorrow, heh Feb 12 02:37:34 imagine if NOKLA actually put out decent phones, with android on them... Feb 12 02:37:49 local carrier is offering all phones for "free" this weekend Feb 12 02:37:58 ieatlint: nice, with a contract? what are you getting? Feb 12 02:38:11 just $25 upgrade fee, 2 year agreement and a 10% sales tax on the original retail price Feb 12 02:38:16 g2 Feb 12 02:38:26 isn't that thing ancient? Feb 12 02:38:35 nah Feb 12 02:38:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_G2 Feb 12 02:38:45 came out in october i think Feb 12 02:38:52 768mb of ram... highest of any phone i've seen Feb 12 02:39:04 err, no, 512... damnit, thinking of something else Feb 12 02:39:11 Doc - was there actually a NOKLA ? Feb 12 02:39:22 Ken-Young: yep Feb 12 02:39:27 yeah, they make knock-offs as i recall Feb 12 02:39:29 I want one!!! Feb 12 02:39:35 http://www.engadget.com/tag/nokla/ Feb 12 02:39:51 go search for "nokla n900" Feb 12 02:40:12 "As with some previous HTC devices, the G2 has a NAND lock that normally prevents overwriting the operating system unless authorized by the manufacturer. Third parties have, however, overcome this lock and third party operating systems such as CyanogenMod are available." Feb 12 02:40:17 seriously, this is open?! Feb 12 02:40:19 * doc|home sighs Feb 12 02:40:33 yes, it's open Feb 12 02:40:46 well, broken open Feb 12 02:41:09 open as in [not really]open Feb 12 02:41:16 half-assed security that was easily cracked and htc just kinda went "meh, ok, do what you want" Feb 12 02:42:06 doc|home: keep in mind that the OS being open has nothing to do with the end device being open Feb 12 02:42:07 anyway, it's the best android phone i know of with a hardware keyboard Feb 12 02:42:13 which is a feature i consider essential Feb 12 02:42:20 ^^ Feb 12 02:42:32 wmarone: agreed, but not unimportant Feb 12 02:42:42 not at all Feb 12 02:42:50 open devices are the best devices Feb 12 02:43:06 yeah, it's why we all use our openmoko freerunners Feb 12 02:43:12 well Feb 12 02:43:12 ieatlint: :( Feb 12 02:43:31 sometimes there are stinkers ;) Feb 12 02:43:34 anyone want to buy a freerunner? Hardly used (because it was never really usable) Feb 12 02:43:36 and it was the htc glacier that had 768mb of ram.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Glacier Feb 12 02:44:26 I'm gonna keep an eye on Samsung, rasterman has been rumbling about stuff behind the scenes at samsung that deals with exactly what we want Feb 12 02:44:27 doc|home: now now, it can run qtopia, which makes it more compatible with nokia products than wp7 Feb 12 02:44:36 ieatlint: sob Feb 12 02:44:50 wmarone: yeah, i'll be curious... i still really like EFL Feb 12 02:45:01 EFL on the freerunner really proved to me how awesome it was Feb 12 02:45:26 I haven't looked at EFL before, but if everything else is true then they'll win over people watching meego Feb 12 02:45:30 at least in the mobile front Feb 12 02:45:31 and samsung has demoed bada, but it's already way behind schedule too.. Feb 12 02:45:32 wmarone: where has he been rumbling? Feb 12 02:45:38 won't believe it until it's out Feb 12 02:45:51 wmarone: now would be a nice time for a non-vapourware announcement Feb 12 02:45:54 he's been in here talking about it Feb 12 02:45:56 ieatlint: pretty much what I said, it's not relevant until I can check it out Feb 12 02:46:00 in here, in #meego Feb 12 02:46:04 on his homepage Feb 12 02:46:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada_(operating_system) Feb 12 02:46:10 for some info Feb 12 02:46:45 no qt support? Feb 12 02:47:04 qt should work fine on it Feb 12 02:47:08 that was what I liked about it. I could learn one language for multi-environment desktop and mobile apps Feb 12 02:47:11 ok, that'd be good Feb 12 02:47:13 and EFL is great because you build your UIs in EDJE, which is a json-style language not unlike QML. you then compile the EDJE, and reference the objects in it with C Feb 12 02:47:16 it = meego Feb 12 02:47:24 hmmm Feb 12 02:47:28 lets you build UIs from images, or make widgets and move them around on the screen Feb 12 02:47:40 pretty cool, and incredibly efficient... it's VERY fast Feb 12 02:47:57 there's python bindings too Feb 12 02:48:36 I'm liking the sound of this Feb 12 02:48:49 if you ever used SHR on the freerunner, it was EFL Feb 12 02:49:06 I did, and liked it, except when trying to use the settings screen :) Feb 12 02:49:11 that lagged like hell Feb 12 02:49:26 ieatlint: it should even be possible to make it run on the N900, what with all the important bits available in MeeGo Feb 12 02:49:31 (someone grab those bits, quick!) Feb 12 02:49:42 wmarone: been done... i think DocScrutinizer has a video of it somewhere Feb 12 02:50:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI hmm.. well, someone does there anyway Feb 12 02:50:15 yeah ok Feb 12 02:51:20 I have a proposal regarding N900 GPS and MeeGo, who should I talk to about it? Feb 12 02:51:44 jonwil: microsoft Feb 12 02:51:47 well if meego really is dead... Feb 12 02:51:48 hehehe Feb 12 02:51:51 yuk yuk yuk Feb 12 02:51:55 have they confirmed it's dead? Feb 12 02:51:57 nox-: It's not, thus far Feb 12 02:52:02 ah Feb 12 02:52:07 Stskeeps Feb 12 02:52:08 I mean, intel may keep developing it? Feb 12 02:52:18 mh Feb 12 02:52:19 but even then, meego + nokia looks pretty dead Feb 12 02:52:23 nokia's official comments say that they will be releasing a meego device this year, and then change meego to be a research platform Feb 12 02:52:30 idiots Feb 12 02:52:34 :( Feb 12 02:52:34 they have not said this device is a phone Feb 12 02:52:36 nokia is dead meego isn't Feb 12 02:52:36 I don't see any reason why Nokia wont finish the MeeGo-on-n900 bits that only Nokia can do Feb 12 02:52:42 psycho_oreos: yeah Feb 12 02:52:47 and i would say there is a very high possibility it'll be cancelled altogether Feb 12 02:52:54 jonwil: I don't see any reason for them to do it :/ Feb 12 02:53:05 ieatlint: no doubt, Ballmer's probably offering to cut them a check so they do it Feb 12 02:53:06 jonwil: dead end platform as far as nokia cares now Feb 12 02:53:29 MeeGo-on-n900 was always a dead platform Feb 12 02:53:42 not dead Feb 12 02:53:48 just reference and developmental target Feb 12 02:53:48 wmarone: hardly, tiny chance it'll be a success, so it looks good for MS if they can say "yeah, look, you made a meego phone and the WP7 phones outsold it 3 to 1" Feb 12 02:54:01 jonwil: sure, but meego + nokia wasn't until now Feb 12 02:54:05 ieatlint: but even MS would get called on that kind of crap Feb 12 02:54:23 dunno... from what i hear about the state of meego phones, it's crap Feb 12 02:54:28 no where near ready for retail Feb 12 02:54:45 the n9 is also definitely cancelled Feb 12 02:55:05 another phone may use the name, but the one rumoured with leaked photos is simply gone, at least as a meego device Feb 12 02:56:33 I still believe Nokia has made the worst business decision of its entire history Feb 12 02:57:08 Customers who want WP7 will for the most part go with someone like HTC who have been doing Windows Phone for years Feb 12 02:57:19 and it did made some very bad ones before Feb 12 02:57:41 yeah it definitely wasnt a smart move... Feb 12 02:57:46 i'm not convinced they did.. they're a hardware company. they make beautiful hardware... but they haven't made a decent and polished mobile OS in years. they can't compete with software Feb 12 02:57:57 not sure MS was at all the right choice Feb 12 02:58:00 today is a sad, sad day.. :( Feb 12 02:58:02 although I think Nokia is caught between a rock and a hard place. Maemo/Harmattan/MeeGo is nowhere near usable for a consumer smartphone Feb 12 02:58:06 but the concept is legit Feb 12 02:58:15 jonwil: exactly Feb 12 02:58:19 Symbian is out-dated and badly in need of replacement Feb 12 02:58:21 and symbian is crappy and lagged Feb 12 02:58:28 and simply can't compete Feb 12 02:58:37 And Feb 12 02:58:48 and Feb 12 02:58:58 although I still think Nokia could have been done better with Android Feb 12 02:59:04 than with WP7 Feb 12 02:59:47 webos i still think would've been more interesting Feb 12 02:59:52 webos isnt available **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 02:59:57 2011